Braves

By bruce

November 30, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

first?

By rich brave

November 30, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

DAVE:

I’m listening dude.

By TommyP

November 30, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

A lot of interesting stuff going on in baseball so far.

Hard to believe the Mets would give up Lastings Millidge for Church and Schneider. Shocking, actually.

Millidge, despite a few clubhouse problems, is incredibly talented. He’s just another long line of “athletes” that Bowden loves to stockpile. I’m not a fan of Bowden but do love getting players like this.

Schneider? C’mon….great general behind the plate but slipping. At the bat? Terrible.

Church is solid with some upside but I’m just shocked that these two players were all that Manaya could get for Lastings. Stunned.

Izturis goes to St.Louis to probably start. Good backup…don’t understand why you’d start him, though.

Hearing San Diego is trying to trade for my guy, Nate McLouth. Not as good a fit in Petco.

C’mon, Frank. Don’t go for these guys with $5 million salaries that will cost in players, too. McLouth will offer as much or more than these KC rejects or Boston 4th outfielders and cost nothing.

By ND

November 30, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

DOB: Any way they sign JF and Tex to multi-year deals before the season starts?

By $ t inK y

November 30, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

With all this Glavine love, they ought to call Turner Field the “Braves’ Bathhouse”. Dave can be the clubhouse manager. Kaplah.

By Roman Gal

November 30, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

So with classes winding down for the semester, I had a lot of time on my hands today. So I went and read all last off-season blogs. I laughed at some of the predictions and how they turned out. Anyways, I think what the Braves need the most this season is some Mark Richt-style coaching. Or at least someone to light a fire under their butts.

By Fury

November 30, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

How screwed up is the baseball free agent compensation system? We sign Glavine and have to give up a #1 pick? WHAT THE HAY? Now we lose Andrew and get nada. Man that ticks me off. Thats why I was all for trading last year.

By Greg O.

November 30, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

As much as I love the minor league prospects, today’s Mets/Nats trade is a great reminder that selling high isn’t a bad option. Milledge was being mentioned in trades for front-end starting pitchers as recently as last offseason. The Mets always refused to include him in any deals. Look where it got them - trading him within the division for a slight-hitting catcher and a late-to-never blooming 29-year-old outfielder. Granted, Church had a solid 2007 season (.272, 15 HR, 70 RBI, 43 2B, 144 G, 470 AB) on a bad team. But the Mets certainly could’ve gotten more for him a year or two ago.

By GoBraves

November 30, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

Good blog DOB, thanks for the new one. I hope the Braves just go on and let Jordan Schafer be the starting centerfielder. And for those people that booed Glavine they can just get over him being back. I know you talked about you thought the Braves should try to get Dan Haren a while back, now that he can be had, what do you think the Braves would have to give up to give him? O by the way what are your top bowl predictions? BCS Bowl, Rose, Orange, Fiesta, and Sugar…

By Jeff321

November 30, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

I’m very happy about Andruw Jones getting the old fashioned, hand crafted BOOT! YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAWWW!!!!!!!

By TommyP

November 30, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Atta girl, Roman Gal. I can see it now. We score the first run on the Mets and storm home plate.

I like it.

By Gator

November 30, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

I say we talk to the Angels about Figgins. You can’t go wrong with that guy. Felipe Lopez sounds like a good utility guy.

By JohnGTFan

November 30, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

This blog was soooooo long, I actually forgot what 50% of it was about. Anyway, I think the business of baseball is going to be quiet in ATL until spring training. I don’t see anything happening until then.

By Roman Gal

November 30, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

TommyP, that’s how we do it here in the south.

By Gator

November 30, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

Is it the assumption that if Hampton recovers and is slotted into the #4 slot then James turns into long relief and lefty out of the pen. I think Reyes will be tough to beat for the 5th spot. Who knows about Bennett. Jurrjens can work on location in AAA.

By TommyP

November 30, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Well, that’s how we do it in Athens, that’s for sure.

No penalties in baseball, though.

By BosnianBaller

November 30, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

I agree with DOB saying that we have enough offense, but the defense and pitching is going to suck even more with 3 rookies competing in CF, kelly johnson is a liability at second and LF is also weak defensivly. The pitching is little better because of glavine but it’s not enough.PITCHING and DEFENSE WIN so we’ll see what wren does in tenn starting on monday.U hope he doesn’t go up there looking for just a back up SS

By Allen

November 30, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, Cool story about the bike ride! Are there any other players or managers you’ve gotten the chance to ride with? Who has the coolest bike?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 30, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Hell , we all should have known that Andruw was gone when Cox benched his butt during the last series of the season against the Astros.

Losing Mahay makes it a five for one trade. Teixeira for five minor leaguers , did we over pay ? Time will tell.

Then again , the Braves do get a compensation pick. The Braves lose the 18th pick and pick up a sandwich pick somewhere around 35 to 40 players into the draft.

For sure , the forty man won’t look anything like it does right now come time for spring training.

By BravesFan1984

November 30, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about you guys but i hope chuck james works on developing a third pitch which would benefit him in many ways…just being a 2 pitch pitcher doesnt work after the 2nd time through the lineup…as we witnessed one too many times during this past season. I think if he could do this he can win the 5th spot in the rotation with ease

I agree that we absolutely need to improve defensively..just look at the rockies who were on of the top defense teams in the league and it got them far. I’m still upset about the fact that Chipper was denied a Gold Glove…because of david wright nonetheless…thats just sad

By JC FROM UT

November 30, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

My money goes with AJ signing with the Dodgers. Remember he is good friends with Rafael Furcal and LA is obviously a warm climate and with the addition of AJ they can look into trading Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

I know it is way too early but I am trying to figure out the Braves bench for next season. The Braves had the worst pinch hitting situation in the NL last season with an anemic .559 OPS with a .213 AVG, .288 OBP, .272 SLG. The Braves were dead last in pinch hitting OBP and SLG.

It’s not the biggest deal in the world because some playoff teams were at the bottom and some of the worst teams were at the top of the pinch hitting ranks. But the Braves were only an 84 win team and need to find every little thing they can that might make them win an extra game or two or three, especially in a tight three team race.

Scott Thorman was ranked 3rd in SLG out of 17 NL pinch hitters with more than 40 pinch hit at bats last season.

Scott did not have a good average or OBP but he did provide some timely late inning thunder at times last season. You don’t have to look at a stat sheet to remember a few of those clutch homers and doubles he had late in games. Unfortunately, too many of us remember the times he struck out or did nothing.

But Scott did have some big moments and that could be key if he is a pinch hitter. From the 7th inning on last season, Thorman did have 6 homers and led the entire team in most homers per at bat from the 7th inning on. It seems like every team needs that pinch hit thunder Scott may be able to provide off the bench late in games.

I don’t know where Scott will possibly fit in however. The Braves figure to have 12 pitchers and 13 positional players. That leaves 5 spots for the bench.

As of now, it looks to be that Sammons will be the backup catcher and Aybar a backup infielder. They will be adding another player to be the backup at short. Either Brandon or Diaz will be the backup in left on a given day. That only leaves one spot left over.

What gets kind of tricky is if Diaz/Jones is the platoon in left, doesn’t that mean the Braves will have to carry a 5th outfielder to play backup in center? Or could Brandon Jones be a backup in center? If they need a backup centerfielder, do they keep Willie Harris as a backup outfielder/infielder? Or do they keep Josh Anderson as the spare outfielder if they get another a more legit stopgap starter in center? If they need a fifth outfielder, doesn’t that mean Thorman is the odd man out?

I dunno. It would be really nice to see them add a Loretta type for backup short.

With Aybar, they will have a pinch hitter who can get on base with a hit or a walk. With Diaz, they will have a great hitter off the bench. With Brandon Jones, we are not sure yet what we will have but probably a decent bat, decent power. With Thorman, there would be thunder. The backup shortstop is gonna have to be someone who can get on base. If Anderson is a backup, you get decent OBP and really good speed. If Thorman is not one of the backups, however, the Braves have no thunder on the bench.

Backup catcher is a problem - through no fault of Sammons. I don’t think Sammons is gonna hit enough but he really can throw and play D it seems and that is good enough for backup catcher.

But part of the curse and blessing of having a catcher as good as McCann who is such an integral part of your offense at a position where there are never backups who can provide comparable offensive production is there is gonna be a tremendous falloff when he is not healthy or not starting. There is a drastic difference between the Braves record the past 3 seasons when McCann starts and when McCann does not start.

It’s way too early but it will be interesting to see who the Braves add in center, backup short, and backup catcher. Another .559 OPS in pinch hit situations is not gonna cut it.

Wren, please force Bobby to have no choice but to have the best players on his bench.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 30, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

Great story DOB… Enjoy it while you can. I knew it was time to quit when I was ready to park my ride in the garage after only 15 minutes. When it is no longer fun it’s time to hang up the chaps.

Manny Acosta is a no nonsense kind of guy, if anyone can straighten out Millidge it will be him.

By TJ

November 30, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

We’ve got to make a TRADE, FRANK WREN, Get a CF and a lefty reliever, PRONTO…

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

JohnGTFan, you’re right: it was so long, I can’t even remember what most of it was about.

By Scottie

November 30, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

DOB

Does “if they don’t get a more experienced CF” means Frank Wren isnt going to try to look for it in the Winter Meettings or later???

Cause in Offense i dont think Schafer, Anderson and Blanco combined could put up decent numbers like a Crisp, Dejesus, Ross or someone else with”MORE EXPERIENCE” than those three ROOKIES

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Gil, I hear ya. Man, after 5 hours, those last 10 miles were fairly torturous….

By the way, Fredi wore chaps. And you can bet he got plenty of razzing.

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

BosnianBaller, only thing I disagree on is that defense won’t be weak in center with any of those rookies out there; it’ll still be quite strong, in fact.

Offensively, it’s a big question mark in CF. But they know that and are willing to bet they can compensate if the O’s lacking from center.

Left field might also be improved defensively if Brandon Jones is out there a lot. Though if he’s out there instead of Willie, that’ll give them a better arm but not necessarily a better glove out there. We’ll just have to see how it works out, I guess. I really don’t have a feel for what’s going to happen in left.

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

ND, I think it’s doubtful that Teixeira signs before the season starts, just because of his agent and his track record of taking guys to free agency.

I do think they’ll get something done with Francoeur this spring. Haven’t heard that’s going to happen from anyone, just have a feeling it’ll happen.

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

Scottie, my understanding is that they are having ongoing conversations about that and particularly about lefty relievers (they’re going to end up trading for a lefty, I’m pretty certain).

Things could certainly get popping at the meetings, regarding a CF. You just never know. Something could come up that they haven’t been entertaining, some offer unexpected. Or something they’ve been stuck on with one team could loosen up at the meetings and a deal happen when one side or the other “gives in.”

By JMF

November 30, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

DOB what is up with the Richmond 1st baseman, Baribaro Canizares? He hit .344 last year, in 2006 .381 Myrtle Beach and .301 in Mississippi.

By Random

November 30, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

DOB—

Best recorded rendition of “Orange Blossom Special” I’ve ever heard is by a band called Seatrain off their (I believe) first album (self-titled). Have you heard of them? (From early to mid 70s, I think.)

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

WW I hear you on the bench. Trouble is, things are probably going to change a bit between now and the first of April.

So, I think we just need to have some patience and let it come together. I am not convinced that Thorman is a goner, for many of the reasons you state. I think he has the potential to have a decent ML career.

Also, with all the lefties (Schafer, Blanco, Anderson, BJones, Thorman, etc), I am wondering who we will go to for a righty bat off the bench, if Diaz is playing. (Aybar or Lillibridge?)

Also, I would not be overly surprised if we do not have Diaz and a couple of other guys by the beginning of the season. If we find another outfielder, then Anderson and Diaz might be at risk.

Harris is a goner.

Utah Jazz game update Utah 32, LA Lakers 22 with 11 minutes to play in the 2nd quarter.

By atl_fan

November 30, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I know it’s hard to guess with us just throwing out names, but would the Braves look to trade for a veteran lefty like Demaso Marte or Scott Downs? Or, are they going to look for a younger cheaper option through trade?

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy: Just went back and read your epic post from this afternoon. When I got home I skipped over it because I needed to get a new blog done and make a call about arbitration, etc.

Anyway, I remembered tonight to go back and read it. Figured you took that much effort to write it, I should at least see what you had to say. Ended up reading the whole thing.

And you know what? You’re full of it.

(Just kidding, dude. Couldn’t resist.)

No, but seriously, it was a very thoughtful and fair post and I appreciate it. And you made some very good points.

And you’re right. I should’ve apologized to Bob J. Not for the point I made to him, but for — after being reminded afterward of the man’s family situation — the manner in which I made it.

Hey, it was a crowded pressbox at the World Series, and I was frustrated from the repeated posts of that nature from Bob J. Nevertheless, as I said, after being reminded of his situation, I should’ve apologized for the tone I took.

Again, not the message. And, were it not for his situation, then I’d not even regret the tone I delivered it in. That’s what we do here, when the few simple rules are neglected multiple times.

But the fact is, when I was reminded of his situation later, and, especially given my previous friendly exchanges with Bob J through e-mails and here on the blog, I should’ve apologized.

Which is why I’m doing it now. Bob J, I don’t know if you’re even reading the blog anymore, but if so, please accept my apology for not being more mindful or having more class regarding your situation.

I’d ask that you please not bring the talk of people’s politics or lifestyles back to the blog, but otherwise your intellect, wit and unique prose are certainly welcome back. More accurately, they’re missed.

Again, I honestly don’t know if you’re reading, but maybe someone will bring this to your attention if you’re not.

(As for the couple of folks who made this whole thing some sort of cause celebre and shamelessly exploited it for their own self esteem, we’re doing well without you. Hey, you know if the shoe fits.)

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

JMF, I hear mixed reviews of that Cuban 1B. He’s old for a minor leaguer with no majors experience (listed as 28, so could be even older).

Don’t think if he plays good enough defense to be a 1B possibility. Puts the ball in play (high average, very few strikeouts), but not with the power you want from a 1B.

By PABravefan

November 30, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

JMF, The wrap on Canizares is that he is a DH. He can’t field any position terribly well, but can hit! May make a good bench player, or trdae bait to an AL team as a potential DH.

By brian

November 30, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

I know the Braves are not looking to deal for another starter, but I was surprised to read on a ESPN.com article that Haren is expected to bring the same level of prospects as Santana, just that Haren’s salary is cheaper. I just cannot see how Haren will fetch the same as Santana. I figured an offer of Chuck, Hernandez, and KJ would not be enough, but comparable to santana? Look at what the Yankees will offer if Hughes is included. For the Braves that would be JoJo, Schafer, Lillebridge, and another top prospect. No thank you.

I like Chuck James and think he will be solid for years to come for the Braves, but if they could package Chuck James and Kelly Johnson to get a starter with higher upside and more established than Chuck, I think the Braves would try to package those two in a trade.

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Random, you really like that version better than the boom-chick-a-boom version by the Man in Black? (Hey, I haven’t heard the version you’re referring to, so I’m just asking. It’s entirely possible, for sure.)

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

At the half, Utah Jazz 70, LA Lakers 51!

Dave Very thoughtful comments. Life is too short for friends to not stay friends.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

Utah has 52 of 70 points in the paint!

By Desperado Dave

November 30, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

Mark my word, the Braves will add a more reliable CF option at the winter meetings. Some people I have talked to have left me with the impression that something is brewing. DOB, have you heard any new names lately?

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

I know some of you don’t like suffering statistical paralysis by analysis, so you can skip this one. But there is a cool web site where you can punch in what the projected lineup is and it will tell you how many runs a game that lineup should score. It is pretty accurate. My lineup that I used was Yunel, KJ, Chipper, Tex, Frenchy, McCann, Diaz, Anderson, pitchers. And I punched in what my projections were.

This was the result

It says that lineup would score 5.3 runs per game. That lineup does not take into account all of the plate appearances the bench would have however.

If you punched in the lineup numbers for each slot from last season it tells you the Braves should have scored 813 runs and should have given up 742 runs. The Braves really scored 810 and gave up 733.

So, go ahead and play with that thing. It’s kind of fun. It lets you know that the Braves are probably gonna score 5 runs a game and over 800 runs a game next season which is critical since that seems to be the model management has tried to create and maintain for the offense.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 1, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

Dave, I am glad you took the time to read SG’s post and I am glad you have come to understand that it was not the admonishment that was wrong, just the tone it was delivered. I had said I was not going to speak on the matter again so this is it. I am sure Bob will read your message.

Words can be a very powerful thing and we must all be careful to choose them wisely. That said, this old dog can’t run with the pack any longer but can still bite the h**l out of anybody who steps on my porch.

I will continue to visit both houses for a while as the tone is different in both now. Just depends on what you are looking for. Just like music.

One thing I have learned is to not allow others to choose my friends for me nor put conditions on who I choose to hang out with. That being so. Have a good night.

By N8

December 1, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this

Check it out! The Royals and Blue Jays are gonna bring back the “powder blue” uniforms as alternate home jerseys.

Powder Blue

DOB

Any chance the Braves ditch those HIDEOUS Sunday Red jerseys and use the Powder Blues? I still have my Dale Murphy poster that says “POWER ALLEY” with him standing in an alley holding a bat that is glowing like a light saber from Star Wars, in which he is wearing the powder blues.

LOVE those uniforms. :-)

To make it worse, my 9 year old LOVES the Red Uniforms, and wants a red Francoeur jersey for X-mas. So not only will I have to look at those things on TV once a week or so, I’ll have to be blinded by my kid wearing that jersey 6 days a week. (with washings in between of course. LOL!)

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

ugabrave you have asked me yesterday what I expect out of the gwinnett county all stars next season. I expect Frenchy to maybe hit .280, .330, .475 or so and McCann to hit .290, .340, .500. We’ll see.

It would be great if Frenchy could combine his home split from 2006 with his road split from 2007 and hit .310, .340, .520. Someday, he is gonna put the package together like that. He just needs to find a way to combine the two bizarre splits he had the last two seasons. Hopefully, next season will be the year.

I think the Mets made a good trade today for Church and Schneider. It sort of reminds me of that Paul Oneill/Roberto Kelly trade from back in 1993 with Church being Oneill and Milledge being Roberto. I’m not betting on Church putting up Oneill type numbers for the Mets but you never know. Oneill and Church were the same age when they were traded to New York and had similar stats at similar ages. We’ll see.

However, simple perusals of stat sheets can never tell you about the competitive heart, fire, and desire of Oneill. It also does not tell you about how much Pinella held Oneill back.

As Gil was discussing last night about Don Baylor and Chipper, Pinella tried to make Oneill a power hitter and the results were not great and Oneill and Pinella repeatedly butted heads. Oneill seemed to love Pete Rose when he first came up as his manager and then loved being freed from Pinella when he became a Yankee so that he could be the balanced hitter he was.

So, we’ll see how well it turns out for the Mets. Looks like a good deal for both teams.

By Lew

December 1, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this

DOB-Bob has been apprised. Good night.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this

N8 The Braves gotta bring back the powder blues for the Sunday home games. If nothing else gets accomplished at the Winter Meetings, at least let the Braves announce they are bringing back the powder blues.

By NOLIE

December 1, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this

BILL JAMES IS RETHINKING THE CONCEPT OF CLUTCH HITTERS AND THE ARTICLE IS IN SPORTS ILLUSTRATED. I HOPE THIS LINK WORKS BILL JAMES LATEST TAKE ON CLUTCH HITTERS MENTIONS CHIPPER

By Wayne in Utah

December 1, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

N8 I love those red jerseys!

By NOLIE

December 1, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this

DOB. YOU MENTION SIGNING ANDRUW AND TRADING HIM IF HE WERE NOT A 10/5 GUY. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU CAN NOT SIGN A FREE AGENT AND THEN TURN AROUND AND TRADE HIM B4 EITHER JUNE OR JULY. AM I MISTAKEN ON THIS?

By Wayne in Utah

December 1, 2007 1:37 AM | Link to this

Nolie: I think what he was alluding to was Andruw accepting arbitration, and that is different than signing as a free agent. I could be mistaken, but that is how I read it.

CAPS ON, caps off

:-)

By Roman Gal

December 1, 2007 2:09 AM | Link to this

Bravehart, that lineup thing you posted was very interesting. I remember one of the commentators talking about how having a certain lineup meant less that a run per game difference. So much thought goes into a lineup order, yet such little difference it apparently makes.

(Although I think we all know the Braves would’ve scored more runs with Frenchy batting clean-up rather than Andruw much of the year.)

By NOLIE

December 1, 2007 3:02 AM | Link to this

CAPS ON, caps off ROMANGAL

I EXPLAINED B4 A COUPLE OF TIMES THAT THE COMPUTER I OFTEN HAVE TO USE AT WORK DURING THE NIGHT IS LOCKED INTO CAPS ON. ANDRUW IS ALREADY A FREE AGENT SO I DON’T SEE WHY THE RULE WOULD NOT APPLY TO HIM, BUT I DON’T KNOW FOR SURE, HOPING DOB CAN INFORN ME

By NOLIE

December 1, 2007 3:25 AM | Link to this

CAPS ON, caps off ROMANGAL

SORRY WAYNE I GOT THE WRONG POSTER.

By keef1234

December 1, 2007 6:53 AM | Link to this

we MUST sign Tex long term. period. Not many speak of him anymore so it makes me nervous, Many have said that moving Andruw freed up the necessary money and along with the Braves added payroll, I beleive this is the strategy…hoping…Plus Hampton will be off after 2008 too!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 1, 2007 7:13 AM | Link to this

The Nationals last draft class was considered by more than a few the best one in baseball for 2006. They are moving players out that do not fit with their go young, go cheap philosophy. Snider and Church were a couple of the last hold overs from the Expos.

Snider adds a defensive catcher to the mix for the Mets and Church was considered by more than a few as a possible short term replacement for Andrew so he will do okay for the NY club.

At the same time it appears the Mets have unloaded a talented but somewhat unruly kid who did not help the team chemistry. I mentioned before, Manny Acosta will get this kid’s head on straight. I have a lot of respect for the Washington manager. He is young but interacts well with his players and sure got a lot more than expected out of the bunch he was given to work with last year.

What major league baseball did to the Nationals/Expos while they maintained control was cut spending by slashing their minor league operations. It takes years to develop a good minor league system, what they have accomplished in a short time is pretty impressive.

Pitching is always the key and it is why I suspect Dan Smith will be snatched from the Braves in the Rule 5 draft. He would be an upgrade for the Washington club and a very low risk. $50,000 is not a big risk in todays world of $300 million contracts. The Braves have some pretty solid arms in their minor league system, they may not be a Santana or a Smoltz but they can get guys out.

Face it, when it has progressed to the point where an ERA under 4.00 is considered good for a starter, baseball has taken a big turn towards offense. I can remember not so long ago that a pitcher with an ERA over 2.50 was considered a fringe guy.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 1, 2007 7:22 AM | Link to this

Sorry, that should read manager Manny Acta for the Nationals. My Bad…..

Anyway, with a guy who is only 22, Milledge is expected to mature and become a middle of the line up type player. The Nats are still in a building mode so no real threat yet but other N.L. East teams should be hearing footsteps.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 1, 2007 7:32 AM | Link to this

DOB, Canizares might also be considered as a decent right handed bat off the bench. A lot of the Cuban players are use to a high level of baseball so I would not think it too much of a problem with his lack of major league experience. I would agree he is not the most agile first baseman to play the game but he sure can hit.

By drixie

December 1, 2007 7:37 AM | Link to this

Andruw is a great defensive player with an aging arm and a beer league approach to hitting. We are far better off with him out of our lineup. He might be worth $2 million as a defensive substitution in the late innings.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 7:48 AM | Link to this

Gil The biggest shame of cutting the budget for the minor league and scouting system of the Expos was that they had a top notch scouting and minor league system. They produced about as much great talent in the 1990s as any team.

Speaking of the ‘Spos, I haven’t heard many on here talk about whether Tim Raines is a HOFer or not. I think Rock is a HOFer. I am not sure he should be a first ballot guy. But then that makes no sense. I have always thought that people who say this guy or that guy is not a first ballot kind of guy made no sense whatsoever. You are either a HOFer or you are not. Without new accomplishments, I don’t know how the voters intentionally overlook certain guys the first time around but vote for the same guy the fifth time around. Seems bizarre to me. A HOFer is like pornography. You know it when you see it. I don’t think Rock Raines deserves to be inducted into that HOF within the HOF reserved for those ultra special 10 to 20 players of all time but Rock felt like a future HOFer to me in the 1980s and then compiled enough stats and was a key piece of winning teams with the Yankees in the 1990s. So, I think Raines deserves to get the HOF nod this year.

The cocaine thing is troubling with Raines - but then it was troubling with Paul Molitor as well. Still remember when that story came out about Raines admitting he got high during games and that he always slid headfirst because he did not want to break the crack vials he was carrying in his backpocket of his uniform pants when sliding. Still remember some writer saying it brought all new meaning to the nickname “Rock.”

If Raines is not voted in this year, it will be very interesting. I believe the sabermetricians have been waiting for years to see what the baseball writers do with Raines. If the writers don’t put him in, the sabermetricians will go bananas once again on the writers and the HOF selection process. Should be fun. At least it will get the baseball talk away from the Yankees, Red Sox, and steroids.

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 8:06 AM | Link to this

NOLIE that is an interesting article by Bill James. He’s only telling us what all true Braves fans know: CHIPPER JONES IS A CLUTCH HITTER! Just ask any Mets fan why they hate “Larry”

By Dave

December 1, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this

We booed Glavine because he went to the damn Mets. Our biggest and most bittered rival. Thats the only reason. That union crap has nothing to do with it.

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this

Tim Raines was an excellent ballplayer. However, my knock against him was he gave himself his own knick name, ROCK Knick names are bestowed upon us by friends or team mates. You don’t give yourself a nick name! I suspect his physique might have been “enhanced.” He was always athletic, but never very big. Suddenly the guy got “ripped.” With all the discussion lately about alleged steroid use, I think guys like Raines have to be looked at, since the end of their careers coincide with the beginning of the “ROID ERA”

By cardvol

December 1, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this

You guys will love Josh Anderson. He is good enough NOW to be the starting CF in Atlanta. If the Braves brass can get someone more experienced, they will be even better. But, Anderson’s a keeper.

By Big Ed

December 1, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Mark You are the most comprehensive well thought out columist at the AJC. Please offer lessons to Terrance. Andruw might consider dropping his agent Scott Boras. Aparently Scott has filled his head with dillusions of a big payday. Facts are facts. Andruw refuses to change his approach to hitting thus deemed uncoachable. Bobby tried to protect him as long as he could last year even saying he has RBI in his glove but the benching was reality. You can never have enough hitters in your lineup if you want to compete for a title and win against American League dominance. We must get our approach away from the old National League strategy. In the world series we saw David Ortiz, one of the best power PULL hitters in baseball, go to the opposite field with two strikes on him and runners in scoring position. Why can’t Andrew learn this concept. Defensively he his still good but his range isn’t any better than a lot of cenerfielders in baseball. The Braves know this and are moving on as well they should.

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

Dave, 8:07AM post, The two comments were not linked together. Glavine talked about the booing and then the union discussion was brought up. He never said people booed him because he was a union rep. He was basically saying some people still dislike him for that…..not for being a Met.

By roan st

December 1, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

DOB, you were riding near my neck of the woods. I live about 15 minutes from carters lake in chatsworth. The north Georgia mountains is a wonderful place to spend a fine fall day.

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

Big Ed…..This is the DOB MAN IN BLACK BBQ BLOG I think you might be confused. Not Mark’s story, dude.

By rich brave

December 1, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

I think Don Baylor should be hired by Atlanta as a(maybe THE) hitting instructor. The previous blog once mentioned Chip Jones as attempting to become a power hitter under his teaching. So I’m asking, wasn’t that 1999 between Baylor’s Managership of the Rockies and the Cubs? IF that’s correct, read on. IF not I guess I wasted a lot of time trying to prove a point and I apologize to you all. I looked up some numbers for Chip at an ESPN site and compared 1999 to all of his 14 year career. Anyway, here’s what I found. The first number represent his career, the second 1999 viz: 14/99. (1)RUNS SCORED:100/116 (2)HITS: 163/181 (3)DOUBLES 31/41 (4)TRIPLES: 4/1 (5)HOME RUNS: 34/45 (6)RBI: 100/110 (7)BATTING AVERAGE: .307/.319 (8)ON BASE %: .307/.441 (9) Slugging %: .546/.633 (10) ON BASE %+SLUGGING: .143/.168 TOTAL BASES: 372/359 DOUBLE PLAY OUTS: 15/20 INTENTIONAL WALKS: 11/18 RUNS CREATED: 112/165. There were bunches of other Special stats, but my head began to spin when I tried to absorb them. I’ve always been terrible at math and statistics, but what I see is a hitter who maybe had a career year batting in 1999. His only stats lower in 1999 vs. his career were TB’s and DP’s. I would also say that IW’s and RC’s offset that decline. These last two catagories would have been better for the team. So I’m asking stats guys help. Where am I wrong for thinking the 1999 hitting coach IMPROVED Chip as an overall contributor to the team?? Did Bobby like this or not? Did Bobby like Don Baylor? Did Chip resent flying in the face of his dad’s balanced approach to hitting? Am I off-base:if so where? Teach me, I want to learn and I apologize for taking all this space on a Saturday morning.

By WarParty

December 1, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

The off-season pieces are starting to come together with more questions to be answered, that I have in mind, before next April, namely:

1) What is the status of Thorman? Is he trade bait, (throw-in or primary), or will he be back to PH and back up 1B?

2) Is Lillibridge to be considered as a backup SS or seen to need more seasoning if not simply needing playing time everyday at the AAA level? That said, could he not assume the role of the 2007 Escobar?

3) Are the Braves no longer in the market to acquire a starting pitcher, even as Hampton’s physical status continues to surface questions as to his viability in 2008?

DOB, thanks for the blog and congrats on nailing the prediction of Glavine being a Brave again. As I recall, you boldly predicted the Tex acquisition this past season before it actually happened. That’s some stellar work!

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

Rich Brave….don’t apologize. Any post that asks a question or provides information should be welcomed by all who read or post regularly. good stuff!

By rich brave

December 1, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

GIL:

I’m for Pena gone and Canizares on the bench in “08. He can hit and in the clutch.

By Lew

December 1, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Ppaddy-I’ve met Tim Raines and a couple of his family members. My son, an ex cop, escorted him around for an entire day doing lectures. He did do substances he shouldn’t have. Cocaine was one of them. Steroids? Who knows?

This much I do know-Whatever he did or did not do, the Man gives generously of his time, effort and money lecturing students about the dangers of drug use. He is a major component of the DARE program in Florida. Yes, he may have done suspect things years ago, but the man has done everything in his power to make up for it and to help others. There is usually more than one side to the story. Maybe we need to keep this in mind when we judge people.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones was just called a glorified $2 million dollar late inning defensive substitution. I have said some dumb things on here but for crying out loud.

We booed Glavine because he went to the damn Mets. Our biggest and most bittered rival. Thats the only reason. That union crap has nothing to do with it.

That’s the only reason? Come on. And, besides the past two seasons, are the Mets really the biggest and most bitter rival? The Mets are and always have been a joke.

The union crap had alot to do with it but I don’t think it was solely because Tom was the face of the union during a difficult time. I think the way he presented himself during that period of time was a problem as it always has been for Glavine. He just always appears heartless or cold in public whether he is representing the union or the team. During that period of time, his heartless public image just received more exposure and grated on a lot of fan’s nerves.

Look at how Anders is acting and talking about Glavine right now. There is something about Glavine that ticks off fans of whatever team he is playing for. The whole disappointed but not devastated line that drives Anders nuts is the perfect example. That is new to Anders with Glavine.

But for many Braves fans, too many were tired of a blase attitude being shown by Glavine in first round exits, lost World Series, or an entire season and postseason being lost by the strike.

As the MLB.com writer Jack O’Connell wrote after that last start this year: “This game has no bearing on where I play next year,” Glavine said. No, only where he would have played later this week.

If Smoltz went to go play for the Mets, he would not have been booed the same way because Smoltz, for the most part, wears his heart on his sleeve. He truly seems ticked off beyond belief when his team loses in the playoffs. That endears Smoltz to the fans. It always seems that whenever things don’t turn out right, Smoltz is gonna find a mic and blow off steam and say things that the fans themselves are all thinking as well.

For example, Glavine will say things like I turned down $13 mil because I don’t believe I deserved it because I am no longer a #1 starter. Smoltz on the other hand says get me the hell out of this bullpen because I am tired of sitting out here watching my team get bounced out in the first round when I should be the #1 ace who beats Kerry Wood and Mark Prior.

When Smoltz turned down an extra $20 mil from the Yankees, he did not say I did not feel like I was good enough to make that kind of money. He presented it as Atlanta is my home and where my heart is and it is where I want to pitch. Smoltz ended up being loved because the reason he gives makes fans believe he gave their team a hometown discount. Glavine, on the other hand, comes off sounding like he was not even giving the Braves a hometown discount even though the media and the fans and the team were spoon feeding Glavine the hometown discount spin on why he came back.

Those are the kinds of things that tick people off about Glavine. Sportswriters love his honesty but fans don’t. Part of the reason sportswriters should love his honesty is because fans don’t. Glavine just does not have that everyman feel to him that Smoltz has. Glavine is intelligent. But so is Arod. Both are lightning rods with the fans because they often seem so out of touch in their comments and behavior with the common man.

For many, it was not that he was a union man but it was the manner he presented himself as a union man.

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

Lew……does that mean we give Bonds or Giambi a pass? I really think if we are going to scrutinize the guys, such as Bonds, we need to do the same for guys like Raines. Fair is fair. The guy got “all swollen up,” it appeared to me, overnight. Who he is now and how he lives his life now were never brought up by me. The HOF will be based on how he was then…..that’s all I’m saying. If he did steroids……who knows?

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, you’re right about Smoltz. Guy would have made a great pro wrestler LOL. I think Glavines’ “no emotion” approach to the game is something that was drilled into him at an early age. And you’re right, it annoys the crap out of people, but it’s what makes him who he is. I remember watching him get his 300th win. He had the same attitude for #300 as he did for #1.

By chris

December 1, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Count me among the Glavine lovers.

By Lew

December 1, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Ppaddy-No one said anything about anyone but Raines. I doubt Bonds has ever done much of anything for anyone but himself. As for Giambi-at least he admitted what he did and took responsibility and more than a few public lumps-Canseco, too (though I’ve always thought the man a consummate @$$) Judge them all separately (if you feel you’re capable of judging), I spoke only of Tim Raines, who was disparaged in the blog. That’s all.

I don’t know about you, but I sure as hell have done things I’m not proud of-so have all of us (as I told friends today, we are human-it comes with the territory). Tim Raines went out and did something to make amends. I’ll give Bonds a pass when he devotes his life and fortune to helping others. Tim did.

I tell you, the man is a good guy-regardless of what he may or may not have done. He has been honest and forthcoming about his substance abuse. Had he done steroids, I doubt he would conceal it now. That’s just the kind of guy he is.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

ppaddy123 I was always annoyed that he chose to call himself Rock Raines myself. I used to collect those Topps cards when I was a kid and I remember that one year when they had Rock Raines on his card instead of Tim Raines because he told them to call him that. That really annoyed me back then. But Raines is one of my favorite ballplayers. And I don’t know about the steroids thing you are talking about. He never hit an inexplicable amount of homers and it seemed that when everyone else’s power increased, his flattened out and decreased.

By chrisklob

December 1, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

BaseballAmerica.com has an interesting article concerning the Rule V Draft which takes place this week sometime during the winter meetings. It gives a good breakdown as to exactly what this type of draft is as well as breaking down who they consider to be candidates to be picked up by new teams. I recommend it, especially if you have questions on how it works.

Here’s the link

By eric the elder

December 1, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

I’m sure baseball minds wiser than mine have this figured out already, but it seems to me that the Braves circumstances would suggest a back-loaded contract for Tex. With Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton coming off the rolls in the next year or two, tons of money will become available. If Tex would agree to a couple of years of reasonable and fair earnings that would balloon dramatically after the second year, that might put us in contention to keep him. I know that’s a big IF, though.

I suspect that the Braves have decided to worry about Tex next year, but I wish we were hearing more about a commitment to lock up Tex and Francoeur and less about a backup shortstop, a CF, and a lefty reliever.

By Dum Dum Dugan

December 1, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Haven’t read all those posts, so maybe someone mentioned it, but Dolly Parton wrote that fine song. DDD

By ppaddy123

December 1, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, Lew…..my comments about Raines are what they are. I think he was a really good ball player. He did, in fact, late in his career, get much bigger. Braveheart, look at your old Topps cards. He’s “ripped” towards the end of his career, which, coincidently, is about the time steroids became wide spread in MLB. Do I know he did steroids? NO….but, right now, as a former player, he will take less heat for being a drug abuser than a steroid taker. Heck, it’s almost fashionable to be able to admit you’re a celebrity and you’ve conquered drug or alcohol abuse. I doubt he would get much sympathy for saying he did steroids right now.

By Lew

December 1, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Ppaddy-No problem. I meant nothing more than to point out something good about a person I’ve met and found to be a good person-that’s all. Make of it what you will.

By chrisklob

December 1, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

I don’t usually participate much in the music aspect of this blog but I saw this article and thought it may be of some interest to some of the folks here. Someone (sorry, not sure who to give credit to) wrote about Band of Horses recently. Apparently, they are based in my home town and have just released their Jan/Feb concert schedule.

Here it is.

By Richmond

December 1, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

DOB: Any inkling as to whether or not the Braves intend to offer Julio a minor league contract and spring training invite, or if they’ll offer him a coaching job instead. Tell me if this is far fetched, but if his goal is to play at age 50, he could work as a player coach in the minors with the agreement that they’d call him up on his 50th birthday (unless of course they needed him before). This would allow him the opportunity to develop his coaching skills much like Eddie did 2 years ago, and would also allow him to achieve his dream of playing at 50. Your thoughts?

By Shaun

December 1, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

ppaddy123, I think it depends on who the player as to whether he will take more heat for steroids than other drugs. Seems kind of arbitrary at this point. For instance, I realize Bonds isn’t a sympathetic figure and I do not feel sorry for him but he’s taking a lot of heat and Paul Byrd is taking virtually none.

In my opinion, we shouldn’t assume anyone was clean in the “steroid era.” We should just view the whole era as somewhat tainted and take that for what it’s worth.

By JasonInMaine

December 1, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

From a chat wrap with Crasnick of ESPN:

“Jerry Crasnick: Brendan,

I really thought so, but a couple of Braves people told me they have no interest in Coco Crisp.”

DOB, thoughts on Crasnick’s comments?

By Lew

December 1, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Will wonders never cease? I agree with you. It’s over. There will be no asterisks. Time to move on and accept that it was what it was and isn’t now.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, regarding your 12:17 a.m. post: Numbers apparently don’t lie, at least in this case. That’s pretty rock-solid, the projections and actual results from last year’s lineup analysis.

By John Tucker

December 1, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Why don’t the braves llook at the Pirates’ Chris Duffy as a CF foor this year and perhaps next. He hits like an All-Star in Turner Field and can chase balls down as good as anu other replacement CF you’ve ,emtioned in your blog.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

N8, totally agree on the red jerseys. Can’t stand ‘em. But I think quite a few people like them, for whatever reason.

Personally, I’m with you on the powder-blues being a much better choice for the Sunday alternates. Plus, they could sell more, which is the absolute only motivation for teams to use the alternate jerseys anyway, in every sport. Since most folks have already bought the red jerseys who are going to buy them, might as well switch to the cool blues and have them buy those.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Jason, I’d tend to agree with Crasnick on that one. Every one I talk to with Braves gives a lukewarm response about Crisp. I had figured they’d be interested because he’s so available and has an affordable contract for next two years, but in reality that’s more than Braves want to pay a stopgap guy, and more to give up in terms of talent in trade to acquire him. Plus, they really don’t want to block Schafer, and that’d probably end up being a two-year block.

By David-ATL14

December 1, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

In some roster news: Tom Glavine has now officially been added to the 40 Man roster and Lance Cormier has been Designated For Assignment.(DFA)

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Roan St, indeed that is a beautiful area up there. Absolutely. You can’t believe you’re only 90 minutes or so from Atlanta. No traffic mayhem and endless strip malls up there. in fact, hardly any commercial, chain-type establishments in the vicinity.

Pendleton gave me a book that’s got dozens of rides all over north georgia, put together by a cop who’s a big motorcycle rider and has done all the rides upt here himself.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

WarParty, we addressed Lillibridge in last blog. I asked Wren directly about that possibility you mentioned, and I’ll just post again what I posted in last blog:

I asked about the possibility of the highly rated shortstop prospect being a utility candidate for the major league club, whether that’s something the Braves would consider, or if they believed he’s still at the stage where he needs to be playing every day in the minors rather than serving as a backup on the major league team.

“We’ll have a better sense of that in the spring,” Wren said. “Most anybody would tell you that if a young guy is not going to get a lot of at-bats, he’s better off staying in the minor leagues. But if there’s a way to get him at-bats, maybe you feel differently. In general, I’d tell you it’s better off to play.”

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

John Tucker, you asked about Duffy and why the Braves don’t consider him.

Why should they? If they’re not concerned about offense, why not go with one of their own kids (Schafer or Blanco) or the speedster they just signed from Houston, who stole over 70 bases in one minor league season?

I say this because Duffy has done nothing well offensively, other than steal bases, since his promising rookie season in 2005. The last two seasons: .249 avg and .313 OBP in 2007 and .255/.317 in 2006. Sir, I’d be willing to bet that any of the three candidates mentioned above can produce better offense than those sorry numbers.

By Ron Roberts

December 1, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

So we’ve heard a lot of noise about Braves’ player payroll going up, and possibly going up substantially… is it just me or are we not really seeing it, or seeing any evidence of the team “projecting” to spend more?

Just wondering; I like the current roster as-is, and feel, too, that the three kids vying for the CF job will be fine defensively, and certainly no worse than Andruw was, BA and OBP-wise, last year, anyhow.

I’m not accounting for abritration boosts (we’d only be dealing with Mahay anyhow, and that’s not likely to happen) or the possibility/probability of a long-term Francoeur extension… I’m just saying, the Braves’ ownership has made some noise about spending more on the on-field product, and we’ve shed Andruw’s hefty price tag and put some of that towards the addition of Glavine… but where’s the rest going to go?

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Gil, I think I’m missing something: “Visit both houses?” You lost me there. Anyway, thanks for the post. E-mail if you’d like to explain what that meant. No biggie, though (dobrien@ajc.com)

By David-ATL14

December 1, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Concerning Lillibridge, if the Braves were assured of facing the vertiable plethora of lefties they faced in 07, then it would be a no brainer. With all 3 CF candidates swinging from the port side and KJ being a lefty, he could start virtually every game against southpaws.Add in the 10+ games to rest Escobar then there could very well be enough AB’s to warrant his spot in ATL. I hope so, I think he could be a valuable addittion as a super utiltiy player. A welcome sight after Woodward,Orr and the likes.

By BeavercreekBravesFan

December 1, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

With Andruw on longer in the Braves salary mix, do you expect Frank Wren and company to sign Texiera to a contract extension?

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Braves just announced that Cormier move a half-hour ago. Hey, who else you gonna drop to make room for Glavine? Had to be Carlyle or Cormier, and Carlyle pitched a lot better last season than Lance, that’s for sure.

Cormier wasn’t going to crack this rotation next season, not after his work last year and not after the additions Braves made. He had his chance, and it was blown because of injuries and poor performance.

By bsj

December 1, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

I can understand on some level wanting some insurance in center, but the more I think about it, maybe just declaring that our CF will be one of the youngins’ is the way to go. I mean, no one is more available than Crisp, really and few more affordable. It seems like the Braves are looking for the ‘08 equivalent to Raul Mondesi from a couple of seasons ago to take a chance on. Brian Jordan is around the team. I’m sure he’ll suit up for the bare minimum. My point is, why are we looking for a CF really? The Braves have been very successful rolling the dice with youth the past few years. I think it’s a testament to a great farm system. We’re solid offensively in every other position. Why not plug Schafer into the 7 or 8 hole and tell him to go get it in center? Let him see some major league pitching without the pressure of leadoff or the two spot. Just my 2 cents

Any thoughts on the newest Mark Knopfler?

By Steamboat

December 1, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

DOB, any comments from the brass on how the Braves feel about Willy Aybar? I see that his hitting in winter league has been just fair… but I’m assuming he’s considered a good offensive player if healthy, etc.

I would think that if he was traded or released, that would enhance the potential playing time for Lillibridge; if Brent was in the mix at 2B, 3B, SS and maybe even OF, he’d likely get enough ab’s to justify putting him on the 25-man. But I don’t know that he’s really played anything beside SS, professionally - so this may be a reach.

If Aybar is on the roster as backup to 3B and 2B, that would leave little opportunity for Lillibridge to play (seems to me) and he’d be better off at Mississippi or Richmond.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, we’ve covered this a few times now, but I understand maybe you’ve not read every post and blog. So here goes again:

Payroll’s already risen by more than $5 mill (just off top of my head; gonna wait until next week to really break it down) with addition of Glavine’s $8 mill salary, Teixeira’s projected $13 mill or so (basically equal to Andruw’s last season), and big raises for Smoltz ($8 mill in 2007 to $14 mill in 2008, Hudson ($6 mill in 2007 to $13 mill in 2008), plus significant raises for two or three others, including arbitration-eligible Diaz and Harris (if they keep him) and even McCann jumps from $500,000 to $800,000, plus all the small raises for the guys with under three years’ service.

I think maybe folks aren’t realizing how huge the raises are for Smoltz and Hudson, which include the prorated portions of their signing bonuses.

Just those two guys alone is $13 million increase over 2007. Teixeira will make as much as Andruw made last season (and probably much more in the unlikely event they sign him to a big extension before the season).

Glavine will make $8 mill. That’s $21 mill alone for Glavine, Smoltz and Hudson, in terms of payroll increase over last season.

Then there’s the Hampton matter, impossible to know right now. Last year insurance paid close to half of his salary. This year? We don’t know at this point how much, if any, it’ll pay because we simply don’t know how much he’ll be able to pitch or if he’ll be on the DL. He’s got a $15 mill guaranteed salary.

Count it up. You drop Andruw’s $13.5 mill salary and Edgar’s $6 mill (portion Braves were paying; Red Sox covered rest). That’s about $20 mill subtracted for those two, which is about $1 mill less than amount of increase for Smoltz, Hudson and Teixeira in terms of opening day payrolls.

Add the increases I mentioned (Diaz will get more than a $1 mil increase), and the other raises that will basically counter the subtraction of some smaller salaries like Villarreal and Mahay.

Then figure they’ll probably add a few mill with addition of a lefty reliever and a backup shortstop/utility man. That’s not even accounting for possible addition of another CF.

Payroll would probably be at least $90-95 mill without adding another CF, if Hampton is on the 25-man roster.

By dan

December 1, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, the other house is the Chop Chick blog. MIB refugees blog there.

By Ron Roberts

December 1, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Thanks Dave. I’ve not kept up ‘round these parts of late w/the new job, the move, holidays, etc.

By rich brave

December 1, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

LEW:

Reading your post of 09:17 a.m. reminds me of occurances in my life which upon reflection made me write a note which I titled:

SECOND CHANCES

Most people don’t realize they’re ready for change until its too late. That’s why it should never be too late.

Your son sounds like a great person. Learning from others and giving back to those who need knowledge from you is what we’re put here for in my book. Evidently you son’s as well.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Dan: Thanks for the explanation. I missed that big development in this very important saga.

Anyway, hey, that’s cool. Glad they’ve found a home here at the AJC, where the paper surpassed its goal of 1 billion page hits for 2007 a month early.

We’ll split the big bonus check with everyone! (what, no big bonus check for that feat? Oh, nevermind.)

Carry on, then. Everyone’s happy and amongst frriends now. No worries.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Efrim I heard Chris Maddog Russo giving props to Efrim from Connecticut today for correcting him on a mistake he made. I can’t imagine that wasn’t you? What was he talking about? You must have caught him in a good one. Him and the Pope (Mike Fransesca) make mistakes all the time and change their stances 5 times a day but hardly ever admit it . Good to hear him talking with some humility.

By David-ATL14

December 1, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

MIB refugees blog on Chop chick?

Not too many of them, current blog has been posted since November 20th and has 210 reponses.

A quick perusal yields an observation that a few misanthropes are indeed bitter. Here’s to them. The MIB blog has continued on quite nicely.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Steamboat, I think that’s why Lillibridge probably — but I only say probably, at this point — will be at Richmond to start the season.

Because whether it’s Aybar or someone else as the backup 3B/2B, Braves plan to get a proven guy to be the other utility guy/backup SS.

I just don’t see where Lillibridge fits on the opening day roster, since, as you pointed out, he’s only played SS in pro ball and hasn’t been able to play winter ball this season because of the wrist tendinitis (Braves were to make a decision this weekend or early next week about his winter-ball status, whether he’s going to play at all or just get ready for spring training).

By dan

December 1, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

The reaction to the Milledge trade from fans and sporstwriters seems to be unanimously one sided: really bad deal for the Mets. Keith Law had a particularly harsh assessment, and a fun read if you’re a Braves fan. Just wanted to say that I’ve really enjoyed keeping up with the reaction to the trade. Minaya seems to be stumbling.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

DOB I haven’t seen anything from you regarding your thoughts on the the Met trade yesterday. I apologize if you posted something last night as I wasn’t on and I’m afraid if I try to bring that blog back up I’ll miss opening day. I heard Jim Bowden on the FAN today with Maddog and he said he hated to give Schneider up because he’s widely viewed as the best defensive catcher in the NL. He didn’t mean just passed balls and caught stealings but for his game calling ability. What do you hear regarding this? ( I hope Bowden didn’t p** McCann off with these comments ala Chipper -just kidding)I think this is the area the Mets had the most problem with Loduca. I think he spent more time at the racetrack than the video room and he lost the confidence of the pitchers and Mgt. Bowden didn’t oversell Church either but basically said he was a good outfielder who can produce at the plate. Bottom line he said that the Mets will benefit for a year or two but the Nats hope to have a longer benefit and higher upside with Milledge. I couldn’t agree more. I think this makes the Mets better next year as a stand alone trade -your thoughts?

By chuckw/deadjournalist

December 1, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Someone mentioned Scott Thorman earlier. He hasn’t been talked about muchnere, so I was curious if he was playing winter ball. If so, is he playing outfield? As a rookie, he played more games in left than at first.

Thorman would seem to make more sense as a platoon player in left with Diaz than Harris (if he is brought back) because he could provide some power that will be lacking from whomever occupies center.

Thorman is out of options and would also offer value as the primary back-up at first and has a power source off the bench.

If he struggled in a platoon role (and he has really struggled against left-handed pitching), then Diaz in a full-time role or platooning with Brandon Jones, etc., wouldn’t be bad options.

I am also curious if Brayan Pena will be given an chance to compete for the LF/back-up 1B/back-up catcher role. He played a lot of the outfield and first in the minors late last season. While he has hit well in the minors, he hasn’t gotten much of a shot to stay on the major league roster. With Clint Sammons talked about the a likely back-up catcher candidate, I was wondering if anyone has any insight on this ability behind the plate/in the clubhouse?

It will be interesting if the final position player spot on the roster comes down to Thorman and Pena since they are both out of options.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Efrim I heard Chris Maddog Russo giving props to Efrim from Connecticut today for correcting him on a mistake he made. I can’t imagine that wasn’t you? What was he talking about? You must have caught him in a good one. Him and the Pope (Mike Fransesca) make mistakes all the time and change their stances 5 times a day but hardly ever admit it . Good to hear him talking with some humility

Anders, are you serious? Efrim is from up CT way.

SO, if you are serious, Efrim got the Mad Dog to admit he was wrong (which is damn near impossible) but Efrim still can’t get Lew to ever admit he is wrong? Damn Lew. You are one impressive SOB.

By Steve from OH

December 1, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Hope we get something out of Cormier at the winter meetings. I would really like to see us get Hamilton from the Reds for a package including Cormier.

Grinch, I have a guitar related question for you, if you’re willing to help me out. E-mail me at srl16@uakron.edu, if it’s not too much trouble…

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Anders

A lot of my friends called me, but I swear it wasn’t me. I know I know, how many Efrim’s could there really be in CT? Not sure to be honest with you. I can honestly say I have never met another Efrim before.

Apparently the Efrim on WFAN was raking MadDog over the coles about Shaun Taylor. If I was to call WFAN, it wouldn’t be about Taylor. It would be about the Braves or Mets. The one time I did call was after the 2002 loss to the Giants. As you know Chris is a Giants fan, so I talked about the series with him. Still to this day, that year and series is the one I think hurts me the most.

It amazes me how many people use the Saturday show to take shots at Chris because they know Francesa isn’t there to protect him.

Off subject, Anders, are you hoping Santana goes to the Red Sox? Being a Met fan/Yankee hater and all, I am sure you are. But the next 5 years for anyone in the tri state area will be tough if Johan Santana ends up as Red Sock. Especially if Bucholz isn’t included in the deal. Just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

By Roman Gal

December 1, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Dan, some of us are too poor to be insiders. What does the Law article say?

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

The most impossible feat is proving Mike Francesca of WFAN wrong. You can get Russo to admit he is wrong on Saturday morning, because he is alone. Mike is impossible. He is all knowing. Anders calls him the Pope. The guy is the most arrogant person alive, yet people still love to listen to him.

By dan

December 1, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Keith Law about Milledge: He’s probably not a star, but he projects as an above-average bat who plays a good defensive center field, and Washington has his rights for the next five years. Milledge’s value was down due to some concerns over his attitude, but those were really overblown, and Washington just picked up a good prospect for about 20 cents on the dollar.

The only way this deal doesn’t turn out to be a disaster for the Mets — second in this decade only to the Victor Zambrano-Scott Kazmir deal — is if Milledge doesn’t pan out as a hitter, and the smart money is that he will. This is a heist for Washington, and a serious mismanagement of assets for the Mets.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Braveheart I thought Efrim was from CT. I could be wrong - Hey there’s a first for everything!

Good line on Lew.

By 22oz

December 1, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

This may be a little late, but count me among the few, the proud, the owners of the red jerseys. How can anyone love those awful powder blue uniforms. If you’re gonna go old school, go back to the Boston Braves uniforms, ala the year Babe Ruth was on the team.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Efrim I have been listening to Mike & The Mad Dog almost everyday since I was 14 or so. Missed ‘em for a few years until they came to YES which you can get on satellite and then eventually when they streamed over the internet. Yeah, they are pompous, full of themselves, and often wrong even though they will never admit it. But try listening to other sports radio across the country. Absolutely painful. Will make you run back to them everytime. And you are right, Dog is much more agreeable when he is alone on Saturdays.

Who’s your least favorite callers on there? I hate Al from White Plains, Bruce from Bayside, and Dennis from Yonkers. DOris from Rego Park used to drive me nuts with her constant hack but she’s dead now. Jerome from Manhattan is a complete nutjob.

By Tim

December 1, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

i just read that Dan Haren is under contract for the next three years for a little over $5 million a year. The braves have the prospects, and with the uncertainty of Hampton, for goodness sakes Braves management pleeeeease go after DAN HAREN!!!!!

By Anders

December 1, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Efrim Bob Raismann the media writer in the NY Daily News coined the Pope name for Fransesca. Fransesca is the most arrogant SOB I’ve ever come across. I’ll give him one thing he sure took his seat at the end of the St Johns basketball bench as team manager (no lie) a long way. He really made his pro name about 20 or 25 years ago when he was working on CBS as part of the NCAA basketball studio group. It was a much, much smaller production back then and they’d use youngs guys like him. Anyway, he went on like a 15 correct picks in a row tear including some upsets and the rest as they say is history. The fact that the Yanks have been a playoff lock for 2/3’s of the time him and the Dog have been on the air has just fueled his arrogance.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

did anyone else just see that incredible play in the VT/BC game? that BC dude just ripped the ball right out of the QB’s hands and ran downfield for a TD. incredible play.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Efrim I was hoping the Dodger’s would swoop in and take Santana but I don’t see that happening. On principle alone I have to root for the Red Sox to get him over the Skanks. I still think the Sox are just driving up the price on Santana for the Yanks and then will go after Haren. As important to me is I hope Cabrera goes from the Marlins to the Angels. Gets him out of the division. I have no problem with that.

By zenstopo

December 1, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Even the Braves are not going to do it, what the Braves should offer the Twins for Santana…..

Jeff Bennett Martin Prado Tyler Yates Brandon Jones

Three quality young players including a top prospect pitcher like Bennett and a good gamble in Yates. I think this is fair for Johan.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

I agree on other sports talk radio. They don’t even come close to WFAN. Best radio in the country, in my opinion. I’d have to say Al from White Plains, because he is a Cardinals fan. I hate the Cards. Steve from Staten Island is really annoying as well. He always calls with these dumb trade proposals. Jerome doesn’t call em much anymore, not sure why. I think because he hates Chris.

Anders

It’s funny, I listen to Mike a lot, but I know that if I ever met the guy, I would hate him. He just seems like such as a*****. He does know his stuff though. At least Football. Baseball, not so much. I can’t get enough of WFAN though. Steve Sommers is great. And since I am at work all day, he is really the only one I get to listen too. I catch Mike and the Maddog around 530 to 6 though.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Braveheart I used to turn the Fan off when Doris from Rego Park came off. I’m not trying to be mean but I couldn’t handle that cough thing. She seemed to know her stuff though. Dennis from Yonkers only calls when the Pope isn’t on now. Him and Mike had a huge disagreement and Dennis is standing on his principles and said he won’t call Mike anymore. This is a guy who’s tight with Dog. They went to Giant baseball games in SF together and even a Super Bowl or two. The Pope refuses to give any ground. He always falls back on “I’ve had this show for 20 years and if you don’t want to listen -Don’t!” I’ve seen their show live at the Hard Rock Cafe in Times Square a few times and even their Mike sits on his thrown and gets waited on hand and foot. Dog at least takes some time to come over to the bar and say high etc..

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Anders One thing about Francessa that annoys me is that he never talked about the Yankees much for the first 5, 6 years the show was on the air. It was all Mets, all the time, especially since the Mets were on that station. But then the Yankees got good and they obviously made the behind the scenes decision to pump Mike up as this huge Yankees fan. So annoying and phony to me. People forget that he wasn’t always that way and that his big Yankees act is very contrived.

By TexasBrave

December 1, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Savanna Guy - Just finished reading your wonderful acceptance speech, Wurlitzer history lesson, and state of the blog sh peal. Very Bob,J-isk in many instances(although more on my reading level).

You really should blog more often. All those words and thoughts being kept bottled in for so long can’t be very healthy. Plus I would venture to guess many on this blog miss your repartee.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

zenstoppo, the Twins would probably laugh at that proposal, if they acknowledged it at all.

Jeff Bennett is a closer to “journeyman” than “top prospect pitcher.”

By BosnianBaller

December 1, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

As a braves fan I think the mets trade hurts us b/c scenider is a very good defensive catcher and church is a very underated player.he drove in 70 and hit 15 HR and always plays hard like Eckstein. It also gives the mets three switch hitters, and 3 left handed hitters(2 of them Shneider and church).milledge can be a star player but he is better suited in CF than LF.Now in Washington he can play everyday in Center

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

No, Thorman’s not playing winter ball.

And Steve from Ohio, don’t count on Braves getting anything of value for Cormier. If someone wants him, they could probably claim him on waivers or just wait to sign him as a free agent.

By Historian

December 1, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

When the Braves won the their first division title in the early ’90s, they had a bunch of no name hitters and a very good pitching staff. I’m glad the Braves are not going to waste $17-20M for a player that could easily had 140 or more RBI’s with some clutch hitting. I think the team finally realizes that he is no longer coachable, and will play out his career with bad hitting habits. They are not having as good of results developing young pitching. Team management might want to go after Mazzone, to go to the minors and improve that development process.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Anders, while I like Ryan Church, I’m shocked at how little Minaya got for Lastings. Either Omar pulled the trigger too early, too late (if someone else had pulled back an offer, which seems unlikely), or Lastings’ reputation has really submarined his value. Either way, it’s shocking that he brought so little back in return.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Anyone seen the Dylan biopic thing, with the six different actors playing parts of his life, so to speak? I think we’re going tonight (be back to watch most of the Big 12 championship game), but just wanted to see if anybody here had seen it.

By Shaun

December 1, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

zenstoppo, to continue DOB’s point, not to mention Yates has a career ERA of 5.15 at the age of 30. I do think Yates is more talented than that but it’s silly to think he’s anything more than an decent-to-below-average middle reliever.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

DOB Do you think the trade on face value makes the Mets better next year? I think we now agree that long term Milledge has a better upside, although you certainly never gave that view before when you would tell me how I was over rating the Mets prospects and that Milledge was part of a dysfunctional toxic clubhouse. Apparently Minaya agreed with your pre 11/30 thoughts.

By Greg in TN

December 1, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Afternoon folks…

The eve of the winter meetings is almost upon us, and there are no real surprises on Planet Braves. AJ doesn’t get an arbitration offer and we do offer to Mahay which seemed to be the way the script was written. From here on out, we’re on our own. The Braves have been a franchise that often makes moves that nobody saw coming, and we could be seeing that again for a lefty set up guy and/or CF’er.

I think Mahay is gone either for the fact that the contract he’ll get will be a bit too long or too pricey for what we’d be willing to offer for a 36-year old wanting at least a 3-year deal.

N8 Had a chuckle at the Nike “Power Alley” poster with the Murph. Love that poster.

I do have a red alternate uniform in the closet with #3 and Murphy on the back. I also have a home and added a road uniform top this past spring (#3 - Murphy as well on those). I like the red unis myself, but I also love the powder blue too, so if the team went in that direction, I would then make room for jersey #4.

I do feel the need to relay a story to the denizens on something that occurred earlier this year. My mother-in-law teaches preschool and they had a “baseball day”. She stopped by to borrow a baseball shirt to wear and my wife, who bless her heart and I love her dearly but didn’t understand what she was doing at the time, lent the red alternate jersey for her to wear. My mother-in-law questioned whether she should wear this to preschool since it certainly looked expensive (tackle twill lettering and numbers and everything, mind you), but my wife told her it would be fine.

And you know what, it was. The red jersey came back without a speck of anything and I didn’t realize what had happened until I returned from work and found it laying over my chair in my office/bedroom at my house. My wife explained what had occurred when I asked her about it, and you should have seen her face when I told her what it was (very calmly I might add) and how much I had spent on it.

Anyway, if we get a convert or two to the Braves way of life, I think it was worth it all. We just know going forward what shirts in the closet to stay away from in the future. :-)

By Godot

December 1, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

You keep mentioning that part of Hampton’s salary was covered by insurance. I am curious. Was that part of the actual salary, or the supposed “pro-rated” salary which the Braves have been using for Hampton.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Efrim, the only times I occasionally hear Jerome from Manhattan anymore is when he calls Joe or Steve. But he does not call much anymore. I think it is because he is having mental health problems. Steve and Joe used to get a kick out of him during the overnights but now they seem more concerned about his mental and emotional well-being (in a very genuine way) when he calls in as compared to ten or so years ago. I’m kinda worried about Jerome myself. He’s not as lucid as he once was. It’s kind of sad to hear him now. But he’s a maniac. The Yankees can be in first place by 15 games and he will call in and say the yankees stink, fire joe torre! NOW! Remind you of anyone here?

Anders, did you ever read Bill Simmons talking about his first appearance on the Mike and the Mad Dog show feeling like he was going to the back room of the Bada Bing with Francessa acting like he was Tony Soprano? Kinda funny.

I did not realize Dennis had a falling out with Mike. Good. I can’t stand Dennis.

By Savannah Guy

December 1, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

David Just wanted to drop in before an outing with the Lady and let you know that I appreciated your thoughtful response to my “epic” (yep, full of it) post and most of all for your sincere apology to Bob, Journalist. Sometimes sitting in the nosebleed section gives the best view…and less blood spatters as well.

Lew Blush? I’m not buying that. Not at all. Must be the frigid temps up there. But seriously, I meant every single word. Later friend…

Klobber Drinks later?

By Lew

December 1, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Historian-Funny you should mention our Farm System and pitching. Here’s a very small analysis. Things are nowhere near as bleak as you might imagine.

Of the Braves’ top 30 Prospects, 13 are pitchers. There are 8 RHP and 5 LHP, who are highly regarded. Frank Wren mentions at least a dozen who throw in the mid to high 90’s-hardly the soft tossers so many think is all we sign. Here are scout comments about some of them.

Cole Rohrbough (L) 22nd round pick in 06. Dominated the Appalachian and South Atlantic leagues. 5-2 1.17 ERA

Tommy Hanson (R) Throws four pitches for strikes and has bulldog mentality that enabled him to lead the organization with 154 strikeouts

Julio Teheran (R) Signed as a 16 year old out of Columbia. Has an impressive fastball, changeup and breaking ball combination

Jamie Richmond (R) 7-5 3.05 at Rome Followed up Pitcher of the Year honors in Appalachian league with solid season at Rome

Steve Evarts (L) Pounds strike zone with three above average pitches

Edgar Osuna (L) Bounced between starter and bullpen at Danville. Gave up more than one earned run in only two of thirteen appearances

Jose Ortegano (L) Only soft tosser of the group Keeps hitters off balance and lead the team and the Appalachian League with a 1.48 ERA

The Braves rookies had a staggering low ERA this season and they lead the Appalachian League in that department. Add to that the fact that Matt Harrison, who left to Texas in the Tex deal, was just named one of the best prospects in the Arizona Fall League and it appears the trend in our minor league pitching has changed radically. I didn’t even list all-such as Kris Medlen , Bryan Dumesnil, Ryne Reynoso, Eric Barrett or Jeffrey Locke.

By Robert

December 1, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

thorman is playing winter ball on the same team as B. Jones

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Anders

I was hoping he would go to the Dodgers as well. Even though that would probably give them the best staff in the NL with Billingsley, Lowe and Penny. If they actually give their young players a chance to develop, the Dodgers could be an absolute force to be reckoned with by 2010. Kemp, Loney, Laroche, Ethier, Martin on offense with Billingsley, Kershaw, Elbert and Billingsley as starters and Meloan and Broxton at the back end of the bullpen. Dodgers should be dangerous.

By chrisklob

December 1, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

SG, it is so good to hear from you again. I have read both of your epic posts and appreciate the wisdom that you have shared with both blogs. Weeks ago, I asked people, as others did, to move on. Didn’t happen. Now DOB has offered what I felt was a since apology to the offended. Will it be accepted? Can this blog community move forward with ALL of its good denizens? Only time will tell, but I can say that I surely hope so though I am not hopeful. It’s a shame too because the diversity brought here made this blog more interesting.

The KC Saloon hasn’t been open for weeks, but seeing that you’re back in town I’d be happy to tip one (or more) back with you. Oh, and I’m buying!

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy You never cease to amaze me. You are the most forgiving, fair, thoughtful gentleman I know. Your post here yesterday and on the other blog today were very impressive and said alot of things I would have liked to say. Despite the epic nature of your posts, I was surprised you could whittle it down to what you did. I have attempted a few times but could not manage it so I never posted it. I am simply not as concise in my long-windedness as you are.

The two of us once got into one of the ugliest brawls ever seen on here with each other ….. most of it caused by my ego being hurt by one of your posts which caused me to respond in kind and lash out and hurt your ego and so on and so on. We then launched nukes at each other for about a day but then we both woke up one morning, I extended the olive branch to you (without really ever truly apologizing to you) and you were man enough to accept it unconditionally and I like to think we became good friends on here despite some of those harsh words being spewed at each other once upon a time. Heck, we even both eventually united in successfully campaigning for each other to get a Wurlitzer, which we both ended up being rewarded with thanks, in part, to the campaigning of the other. And I have missed having you and my buddy Paladin (another denizen I had an ugly fight with that resulted in apologies being accepted) around to feed off of.

I miss the Mt. Rushmore of the blog as well. But the apology has now been extended, it is now up to them how vindictive, indifferent, or forgiving they want to be about it.

BTW, glad to hear that you have received your Wurlitzer. Got mine about a month ago as well and Lew does fine work. Can’t thank the man enough. I will be giving mine to my pops on Christmas and I know you got Hank done in honor of your pops as well.

By Ben

December 1, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

DOB,

The host of a baseball radio program in the Washington, D.C. area said this morning that Ryan Church is extremely conservative, politically speaking, and that maybe, just MAYBE that had something to do with the Nats’ willingness to trade him. Seems like a stretch to me, but I guess you never know if his views caused problems in the clubhouse or something.

Also, people may not be aware outside the D.C. area, but trading away Schneider for the Nats is like the Braves trading John Smoltz. This guy is known as the team leader, a force in the local community, and a guy everyone respects. It’s a pretty big deal to trade him. But people here are ecstatic to be receiving Lastings in return.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

By the way, Minorleaguebaseball.com just released their T0P 50 prospects. Braves didn’t have a prospect in that TOP 50, but they still have a solid farm system. Jason Heyward was actually #51 and Gorkys Hernandez was #53. Not sure where Schafer was, but it’s a pretty good read. Check it out.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Shaun, do you think Tim Raines deserves the HOF?

By ColoradoBravesFan

December 1, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Scot Thorman is playing Winter Ball. He is on the same team as B. Jones. Thorman hasn’t been in a game since 15 Nov. Maybe his team designated him for assignment…?

By David-ATL14

December 1, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, I saw the Dylan biopic last night. It was outstanding. first rate cast and the music needs no plug from me.

Cate Blanchete was impressive with her potrayal of Mr Zimmerman.

I believe you will be thoroughly impressed. Let us know.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Sorry - got wrapped up in the Rangers /Sens game. Yes I did read the Bill Simmons article. I read him all the time except when he gets deep into NBA stuff. Did you read when he kept a diary just watching those guys on TV? All his diaries are great Draft day, Opening day etc.. Simmons is a great writer (Sorry DOB I hope I’m not breaking blog etiquette) here.
Suprised to hear your thoughts on Dennis. I think I liked him because he was the opposite of Fransesca.

By David-ATL14

December 1, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

On the Mike & Mad dog thing, plenty of subpar callers. A few decent ones, Mike from Montclair is above average.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

DOB

Have you ever been asked to do Mike and the Mad dog up in NYC for WFAN? I am not sure if you have or haven’t. I would think they would of wanted to get Atlanta’s perspective when Glavine went to the Mets after 2002. Can’t remember if you were a guest or not.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

David-ATL 14,

Mike from Montclair is good, but he always brings up Steinbrenner. He is in love with the guy.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Anders I actually like both Francessa and Dog’s on air personas although I would not like either in real life if I knew them. I just don’t like Dennis. He can be funny but the way he and Dog chit chat with each can be annoying as heck. Yeah, I like Simmons alot. He’s a must read for anyone under 40. That HUGE diary he did of their show was hilarious, nailed them on everything. ESPN has banned him and all other ESPN personalities from being on their show now though.

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Efrim, DOB did an interview with Mad Dog right after the Tex trade. I think it was too long ago to be on their website anymore but it is still on ITunes I think.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I did one with those guys at the trade deadline (after Teixeira trade), but don’t recall doing one with them about Glavine.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan — thanks for the correction on Thorman. You’re exactly right. I don’t know why I forgot about Thorman in winter ball (I had him listed when I ran those assignments a while back).

I’ll find out this week why he hasn’t played since mid-November, if that’s the case. Some guys only play the first or second half of a winter-ball season, so I won’t assume he got hurt or anything like that, until I check with Frank in Nashville.

If you don’t seen an update Monday from me, please remind me to ask (I can imagine that might slip through the cracks with everything going on).

By mo in the boonies

December 1, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Efrim Re: Lew, I don’t think he suffers fools lightly. Only sometimes they aren’t quite the fools he thinks they are. But we all get feisty now and then. Maybe we all could just cut each other some slack.

DOB In other words re: the Braves big money increase, they are really just keeping up with the “cost of living” of the team.

Time to watch the LSU game.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Godot, insurance would be portion of the actual salary, not the Braves’ amortized figure (which is just over $8 mill per season, for their accounting purposes).

An agent who’s been keeping track of the Braves’ payroll with offseason moves also said he’s got them at $90 mill now, which is what I figured off top of my head, more or less. it’s just so hard, like I said, because we don’t know Hampton’s status.

But just with the addition of Glavine and Tex salaries, and the major increases for Smoltz and Hudson, they’re at about that amount, despite shedding AJ and Renteria salaries.

By Shaun

December 1, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun, do you think Tim Raines deserves the HOF?

I think Raines is a sure-fire HOFer. His most comparable players are Kenny Lofton, Lou Brock and Max Carey. He was probably better than all three of those players when comparing their peak seasons. And he was probably good for longer.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks.

Mo

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please elaborate, if you will.

By Kenneth Simpson

December 1, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

If the braves don’t get to keep Mahay they traded 5 good players for Tex. I think that deal is going to come back and haunt the braves then they all do. No way Tex will sign before becoming a free agent so Boras can get his millions too. I said it before and I repeat it today they traded away the farm to get Tex for few weeks in 07 and 08. They are going to regret trading Salty and Elvis. DUMB TRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Shaun

December 1, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Compare Raines to Rickey Henderson, the gold standard for leadoff hitters and leadoff-hitting leftfielders:

Raines: .294/.385/.425, 123 OPS+, 808 SB, 146 CS, 23 seasons

Henderson: .279/.401/.419, 127 OPS+, 1406 SB, 335 CS, 25 seasons

Henderson obviously should be the gold standard but Raines is not that far off at all.

By BosnianBaller

December 1, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB are the Braves going to hold camp Leo(With McDowell) in Feb. I would think that this upcoming year it would be vital to have it considering all the young pitchers on board.

By Kenneth Simpson

December 1, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

I think the braves should let Hampton hit the road and then sue for what they paid him like the Falcons are doing with Vick. The only thing he has done with the braves is kept the dugout seat warm. If they braves are counting on him in 08 they might as well throw the towel in now. If he could pitch he would get hurt walking from the bull pen to the dugout and then to the mound. Does he qualify for medicare?

By Shamus Thacker

December 1, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Hampton could blow an elbow wiping his butt.

If Cal is the Arnman, (Yankee translation: Ironman), Mike is the Glassman.

He’d get injured laying in a pile of cotton…

By Shamus Thacker

December 1, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

Sorry Kenneth, but Glassman never warmed the bench. Sat on a sunflower seed opening day, injuring his coxyx, (tailbone). Sat on Bobby’s lap rest of the year…

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

BosnianBaller, yes, they are. Just as they held Camp Leo (with McDowell) last February….

Kenneth, I’m no attorney, but I’d guess that’s be a fairly difficult case to win: You, the employer, are going to sue someone who got hurt on the job?

Uh, yeah. I’d say fairly impossible to win that one.

By mo in the boonies

December 1, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Efrim Just commenting on your little disagreements with Lew. No biggy. Didn’t want another big hassle to start up on here like the last one.

By chris

December 1, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

YES THE BRAVES SHOULD CUT HAMPTIN AND SUE HIM!!!!!! MAKE HIM PAY BACK EVERY PENNY HE STOLE!!!!! THEN SEND HIM TO PRISON!!!! HE SUCK’S!!!!!!!

By AdirondackDave

December 1, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

Chris — Lighten up, man. Hampton’s run into a seriously bad injury streak. No reason in the world to think he’d rather be going through all this rehab rather than winning games and pennants. The Braves have been getting 50% insurance reimbursement to somewhat ease their pain. Sure the club and fans are disappointed big-time, but you’re way off base with your tirade.

By GermanBravesFan

December 1, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

DOB: assuming the Braves will talk to some other teams about a center fielder, whom do you consider “expendable” among the current Braves top prospects? I understand that any time you want a good player, you have to be willing to give something in return. I also understand that it depends on the need of the other team, but let’s say the Braves make an offer for DeJesus from Kansas City, what would their needs be and what would the Braves potentially need to give up?

Do the Braves consider any of their current prospects “untouchable?” I would think that with the emergence of Escobar, Lillibridge might be one of the “expendables” I mentioned above (unless the Braves want to convert him to play a different position).

I always find it quite interesting to look into trade options and to see what’s realistic.

Speaking about realistic, do the A’s even consider trading Haren?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 1, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

Yea , I am going to sue the Braves for mental anguish , two non-playoff seasons in a row should be good for about a million dollar settlement.

And…. I’m gonna win the lotto.

Now , back to reality. No surprise that Cormier was cut lose. That is three players who would have been arbitration eligible that the Braves have released or traded.

Willie Harris and Tyler Yates might be next. I think Bobby Cox really likes Buddy Carlyle , he might keep him around till spring training.

Went to see No Country for Old Men and it was wicked. Tommy Lee Jones was superb , I didn’t know Woody Harrelson was in it. Javier Bardem’s character (Anton Chigurh) was simply bada$$ and I’m talking total psychopath. He was perfect for the role.

Josh Brolin’s character never had a chance , he was a dead man right from the start.

The ending was one of those , what the hell kind of moments. I enjoyed the movie right up to the end and then wondered if the rest of the movie somehow got left on the cutting room floor. So , don’t expect some neat Hollywood ending , it just doesn’t happen.

One thing is for certain , I’ll never flip a quarter again without thinking of this movie. The film itself presents the audience with a choice or question , what is morality ?

Maybe when it comes out on DVD we will be able to see what was left out of the directors original cut.

All in all , I recommend it for adult audiences only. Go see it or at least when it comes out in the video store.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

Mo

I understand. Should be no problems any longer.

You guys should check out Peter Gammons article on ESPN.com. If you have insider that is. Pretty good article about where we the sport is headed. Although, amny of you already know it with absurd contracts that are being handed out.

By Random

December 1, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

DOB—

I dunno — I’ll have to check out John Ray’s “boom-chick-a-boom” version (as I desperately attempt to mask my near total ignorance of JRC’s immortal oeuvre).

Meantime, all I can say is Seatrain’s effort is totally kick-axe.

By old timer

December 1, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

Well, if Teixeira gets to the free agent market as DOB say will happen, then we won’t have much to show for Elvis and Salty. We have become like all those NL teams we clobbered year in and year out thru the ’90s. They’d dump their top prospects for aging guys and maybe get a wild card, maybe not, and then suck for the next several years. Braves don’t suck yet, but they need to be smarter. Could really use some of the pitching traded for JD Drew, for example.

By Random

December 1, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

This here (http://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2007/11/24/) is a pretty funny cartoon (imo).

What if life were like sports (rather than vice versa).

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 1, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008) Unfortunately some attorney will take it on as a class action case for all Braves fans and we will all end up with about a quarter. That is except the lawyer who should reap about 1.5 mil for expenses.

We have to make up a new game called the 6 degrees of Kevin Millwood if Josh Anderson plays in Atlanta this year.

By JasonInMaine

December 1, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

Efrim, where did you see the list past the top 50?

By Braveheart

December 1, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

Jason in Maine, on the front page, there is a poll on the right side if you scroll down that says which guy listed 51-55 should be in the top 50? Heyward is 51 and Gorkys is 53.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this

Jason,

Like Braveheart said.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

So I figure let me see what all this top 50 prospects hubub is about as my Brave Nation pals are always talking up their prospects and crapping all over the Mets prospects (until they get traded, then they talk them up). Well I scroll though the top 50 and find out that the number 1 prospect in the NL Eastern division is none other than the Mets Fernando Martinez! Not a Brave or Phillie prospect to be had in the top 50. I wonder if Billy Bean has access to the World Wide Web so he can shop on line?

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

Old Timer

They took a shot and it didn’t work for 2007. It could very well work for 2008. If they don’t make the playoffs again and he signs with another team, then yes, very dissapointing. But I’d rather them go for it while we still have Chipper and Smoltz, then sit there and be in between.

The “You’re either in or you’re not, so sell shop” approach in baseball, to me, only applies for the AL’s small and medium market teams(and the Marlins to some extent). In the NL, pretty much everyone is in. American League is a much different story, and that is why you will see teams like the A’s and Twins selling shop like they are about to do. They’ll get great prospects for their talent and probably be able to contend again in 2010.

In the National League, there is no clear cut team on the top.

By Paul Hamilton

December 1, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

I would say 5 years at $70 million sounds a lot more inline with Andruw’s performance over the past two years. That’s not even $15 million a season, and I could definitely seeing someone pony up the dough to sign Andruw. His previous salary requests were outrageous to begin with and he is looking the fool at this point. Andruw better take what he can get.

I also think it’s extremely humorous that the Yankee’s gave Rodriguez all that money. He is clearly the best player in MLB, but if you look at his stats, I believe he has NEVER taken a team to the World Series. I thought the Yankee’s were all about winning Championship rings.

By JasonInMaine

December 1, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Efrim & Bravheart, thanks. I missed it…

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

Anders

I must say I was pretty suprised to look at that list and see no Braves. It was just one top prospects list though. Lets wait for Baseball America’s list to come out.

I will say though, it ain’t a good thing to see no Braves prospects on that list. But Heyward and Hernandez were #51 and #53. I think overall, our system is better than the Mets. At least thats what I read.

Fernando Martinez was born in 1988 and they put him in Double A in 2007. That is a little much. The Mets have been accused of rushing prospects, then again, the Braves did bring Frenchy up a little early, as it showed in 2006. But all is well and working out with him.

Anyways back to Fernando Martinez, I would be shocked to see him dealt this offseason.

By JasonInMaine

December 1, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this

Let’s not forget that the Braves just traded 5 prospects…3 of which were highly regarded and they still have two prospects banging on the door for entry into the top 50. Lew and others are starting to convince me that our pitching may not be as bad off as feared by the likes of me either…

By Jared

December 1, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

ESPN says the Braves are interested in trading for Chad Cordero.

Mark Bowman said the Braves were looking to trade for a left-handed relief pitcher. Wouldn’t Brian Fuentes make more sense than Cordero?

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Jason

The pitching has a ton of promise, but they haven’t faced the tough test of Double A. Only Rohrbough and Hanson have a shot of even seeing Double A innings in 2008. A lot of the guys haven’t even put together a full season yet.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this

Jared

Buster Olney brought it up this morning saying that it made some sense.

Personally, I don’t think it does. Soriano is the closer and in my opinion, Cordero is overrated.

As far as left handed relievers, Damaso Marte would be great.

By Savannah Guy

December 1, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

Klobber Just got back, had to do a quick interview with my old Fly buddy and now have to run off for a bit. Movie time with wifey. Hold my seat.

Braveheart Thanks. We all say stuff we don’t really mean, especially on a keyboard. Tell ya what, have Klobber put one on my tab. Don’t get too smacked though…that Knob Creek is for sippin’.

If Grinch shows up, give the man whatever he wants.

By doc

December 1, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

bheart, thanks for saying to sav guy what i would have. yes, he did a very fair job of assessing the situation, both sides, he didnt say what i would have which is that some have used the situation for their own agendas beyond the effort to take up for one of their own and maybe more for the former than the latter. i think that is contrived and using others, so be it. as it was happening i suggested those that were so caught up in the unfairness of it might have been known to be a bit mean spirited though veiled in humor and threw out some of the most vicious darts against others and were reacting then finally as one of their own had been hurt forgetting some of their own venom. they wouldnt or couldnt deny it as that would have been even more fallacious than what they accused dob of. at least i can give them credit for not trying.

glad sav guy said what he did. i think a lot of folks put out the olive branch to be grabbed but it was ignored, again suggesting an agenda maybe unknown to themselves. the mirror of projection is hard to accept or even see as past of oneself.

to some now it is still about them against us. that goes beyond the unity of mankind and suggests something severely repressed in a mother or father issue or both. i laugh, by now i am like gil, too old to be told when, who or why i should take sides or associate with. that is waaay too much like what a remember about fourth grade.

again let the parallel universes continue happily for most as it is.

funny, i wouldnt have known of the other as soon or ever about the other blog clique if they hadnt come and advertised on this blog. doesnt that strikes of a significant desire to be recognized or at least to not be overlooked and say look at me? dont two year olds act like that?

thanks bheart. no one is ever perfect, however all is perfect, just as it is. i now know where i can go to read for entertainment or where to go for the heady stuff of talk of bbq, bars, music, hogs, travel, sports, our beloved braves and/or baseball. sweeeet!

By JasonInMaine

December 1, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

Interesting that the Braves would be interested in Cordero…they hit him well (:

I would rather have Soriano closing…so, are they looking for a setup guy? What about the Aussie? With the young arms the Braves have in the pen, I would be surprised that they would be interested in Chad. The Young Panamanian impressed me last year.

By brian

December 1, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

Chad Cordero is weak. If Mahay’s salary is not driven terribly out of control (I know it will be higher than the Braves like) - i would suck it up and invest a little more in Mahay - proven in Atlanta and will not cost prospects. Unless Colorado is ready to take Bryan Pena and some other B prospect for Fuentes, keep Mahay

By brian

December 1, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

Jared and Jason

The rumors that ESPN report are just that - rumors

Ask Kirk Herbstreet - man did he have to eat crow on tonight’s broadcast!

By JasonInMaine

December 1, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Brian, true. I wish I would have heard Herb tonight! I missed it.

Plus, ESPN hasn’t really said that the Braves are interested…just that they think it would make sense for them to be in on a reliever discussion…which I disagree with. I think our bullpen will be pretty good, especially if MG is able to come back. I was truly impressed with Acosta. Plus, I still think Devine has potential. Ascanio was pretty good too, plus Moylan. I personally do not believe we need Cordero…I agree…pony up and keep Mahay!

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

I love how some of this random speculation becomes “rumors” becomes “are interested.” What an era we live in.

This was what was written on Buster’s blog: “Have heard that the Nats are pushing to trade Chad Cordero, and it makes sense for the Braves to be involved in conversations for a reliever.”

Well, yes, if Cordero were left-handed and cheaper, it would make sense.

By McFann

December 1, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Oh no! I just read somebody’s comment that said the Salty-for-Tex was a bad trade!

Not again!

Can’t you people see? That was a good trade! Notice how much more playing time Jarrod was getting afterwards?

Hey, Bravesheart made a good point a while ago about how much better the Braves are when McCann starts. I liked that one!

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

David-ATL, you were right about the Dylan flick, “I’m Not There.” Whole lot to think about, like the man’s music itself.

Really good, interesting, abstract movie. Got a standing ovation from the packed house where we saw it tonight. It’s not for everyone, but it’s definitely for any big fan of Mr. Zimmerman.

Cate Blanchett was pretty terrific, wasn’t she? I’ve got that movie, “Don’t Look Back,” on DVD, and she had that era of Bob nailed.

By Overlord

December 1, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Why are the braves thinking of cordero? Better get another starter since hampton is not doing ok and they better get some bench support, last year was terrible. Pay Mahay what he is asking, the guy is solid.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

Coach, agree with you entirely on No Country for Old Men. What a great, great movie….

Old Timer, I didn’t say Tex would definitely hit the open market. I said that Boras almost always takes his clients to the free-agent market when he can. There are exceptions, though. We’ll have to wait and see….

Jared, no secret Braves are looking for a lefty. Wren has been open about that from the start of offseason, that if the price got too high for Mahay they’d probably have to trade for one. He told me Friday, that looks to be the case.

By Historian

December 1, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

Lew: I don’t disagree that the Braves have talented pitchers in on the farm. But, they haven’t produced a Glavine or Avery for a long while. Mazzone has a knack of bringing the best out of young pitchers and he’s equally good at resurrecting experienced pitchers as well. Maybe having him at a level just below the senior club could get these kids ready to make an impact.

By cricket

December 1, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

WOW!! will the curse of no. 2 live on !! NCAA better check the official that called the penalty to negate the PITT TD..that was terrible call.

By David O'Brien

December 1, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Overlord, they’re not.

By Random

December 1, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

Trying again on the funny cartoon.

Life IS Sports

Well, we’ll see.

By N8

December 1, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

DOB

The Braves don’t still call their pre-spring training pitching “thing” Camp Leo, do they?

Maybe they could call it Camp Hot Foot!

I think that was the problem last year. Had Roger lit a fire (literally), under Andruw’s Azz, things might have gone differently.

:-)

By JasonInMaine

December 1, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, agreed. When I went and read the ESPN blurb myself, I basically posted the same thing adding the young right handed arms in the pen that we already have that I would prefer over Cordero.

By N8

December 1, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Historian

You essentially contradicted yourself in a matter of sentences.

First you said:

“But, they haven’t produced a Glavine or Avery for a long while.”

Then you said:

“Mazzone has a knack of bringing the best out of young pitchers…”

Well, which is it???? He’s only been gone for two seasons. My calculator says that that means he was in Atlanta through the 2005 season.

Since Avery and Glavine were BOTH on the big league roster before the 1991 season began, that would mean that in the following 14 seasons, Leo contributed to them not “producing another Glavine or Avery”, right?

Again….which is it?

By brian

December 1, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Brent Mushburger (SP?) asked Kirk straight up though politely. He basically said that his sources were solid and he is still convinced something was going to happen. The about face happened according to Kirk Herbstreit because either LSU was able to beat Michigan to the punch and offer Miles an offer he could not refuse, or the press conference is just for show and for the team tonight - see what happens next week.

The interesting thing is how quiet Michigan’s brass was today. They said nothing.

Anyway, back to the Braves, I agree with you Jason on the Braves young righty’s in the bullpen - I also think Devine still could be strong.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 1, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

Greetings all, Please, lay the “Chief” Cordero thing to rest. He has a very tired arm…. I think Frank Robinson used him up pretty well two years ago. A young arm is a terrible thing to waste but desperate men do desperate things.

Okay, time to go watch the end of a couple of pretty good ball games.

By Anders

December 1, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

Efrim I hear ya but I do have to defend my boys on here. Plus you just traded for one of those guys and gave up a pretty solid MLB guy to get him. That said, you’ve certainly been more than objective. But others are very inconsistent. All I’ve heard for months here is that Milledge was over rated. Now I hear that Minaya sold short when he got a 70+ RBI guy(450 AB’s) and a solid backstop for him when there were no catchers to be had. I don’t have a complete handle on McCann’s game behind the plate but he better be solid throwing guys out because he’s gonna face Reyes, Wright and Beltran as well as Rollins and crew 18 times each a year. I think Acta is going to have his young guys running too. Also I hear what a wind bag Waqner is during the season and what a jerk Keith Law is when he critiques the Braves system and now both are being quoted chapter and verse on here as gospel about the Mets moves. According to the top 50 list Keith Law had a pretty good handle on the Braves system as others see it anyway. Still haven’t heard back from DOB as to wether he thinks the Milledge trade on it’s own makes the Mets better next year as I think it does. Keep in mind the Mets haven’t spent a nickel of any of the money they’ve saved on Glavine, Mota or Green yet. $23+ mil and they saved another $3 mil on Schneider versus Loduca. Nice to have in the bank for a rainy day when that eventual firesale presents itself.

By Historian

December 1, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Twilight zone: My reference was development, not drafting. Although Glavine was showing signs of becoming a good pitcher, look at his record while under the coaching of Mazzone. Avery and Smoltz were a mess when they started their big league run, and Mazzone was a key ingredient with their development. Avery hurt his arm, and did not reach the potential of the others, but was truly magnificent before the injury. What you think the guys down in the minors are better coaches, or do you have a real dislike of Mazzone?

By Jared

December 1, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, do you think that Brian Fuentes is a left-handed relief pitcher the Braves are interested in?

I’d like to see the Braves get Fuentes, but I imagine the Rockies want a lot for him.

By Steve from OH

December 1, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this

Wow, the upsets tonight are unreal. WVU down, and Mizzou looks like their ready to go down next. Great news for my Buckeyes! Looks like the Dawgs are probably headed to the Rose Bowl.

By Efrim

December 1, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Anders

I agree with most of what you said. Milledge’s makeup is the only scary thing about him. He will probably be an above average regular. You are right though, you can’t bash a guy(Milledge) repeatedly and then turn around and say the Mets made a bad trade. If he sucked, then he wasn’t getting you anything anyways. Not that I think he sucked at all, I don’t, nor ever did. I can really only think of a few on this blog that bashed Milledge a ton while he was property of the Mets. Anyways…Phillies, Mets and Braves will be in a dogfight all year. None of these teams have seperated themselves.

By Random

December 1, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Hey, the cartoon link worked == yay!

Okay.

Who here besides me did not know until recently (or, perhaps, until now) that Jose Canseco has a twin brother, Ozzie Canseco, who also had a MLB career?

“Osvaldo ‘Ozzie’ Canseco Capas had a brief major league career, playing in 24 career games with the Oakland Athletics and St. Louis Cardinals between 1990 and 1993. He was drafted as a pitcher by the New York Yankees in the second round of the 1983 amateur draft.

“In stark contrast to the prolific, power hitting career of his twin brother, Ozzie never hit a major league home run. [Though he currently holds the Atlantic League single season home run record with 48.]

“Ozzie appeared on an episode of VH1’s The Surreal Life (Season 5) as a José Canseco impersonator. At the end of the program, it was revealed that he was José’s twin brother. Ozzie has also reportedly shown up to Card shows and book signings passing himself off as his brother.” (All info above is from Wikipedia, from which one could find more.)

By Random

December 2, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

I think most reasonable denizens would agree that Mike Hampton is neither lazy nor especially greedy. However, consider this probably equally as offensive suggestion:

Is Hampton simply just st#pid?

Coming back from TJ surgery and over a year of rehab, how does he injure himself? Taking batting practice!!!

After another bout of surgery and rehab, how does he injure himself? Going after a grounder!!!

Eagerness to come back and play is one thing, but …

Give us the gouge here, DOB — is Hampton widely considered to be fairly simple-minded (so to speak)?

By the braves gm who has money

December 2, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

braves trade:

Kelly Johnson JoJo Reyes Jair Jurjens

FOR

twins trade: Johan Santana

and then try to get Joe Nathan for Chuck James

By Savannah Guy

December 2, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Klobber Looks like I got back too late and the saloon is closed up. I’d just as well call it an evening anyway. Before I split, let me say thanks for the kind words today, here and there. Meant a lot.

Gil Your opines were much appreciated. You’re a standup guy and a nice individual. After the union ink is dry it gets quiet, doesn’t it. Me, I think I’ll take another sabbatical. See you around sometime.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

SG, I’m here, my friend. Saloon’s not closed, just kinda slow lately. But I always stay open late for friends.

Random, how does getting hurt in BP or slipping while trying to field a grounder equate to stupid?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 2, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

Injuries are a part of the game , so are guaranteed contracts. Live with it and be glad your not the one paying Hampton’s salary.

The BCS is in chaos and I love it. When will these greedy Bowl game representatives and University alumni come to their senses and design a playoff system like every other major sport has.

No matter what team the BCS computers spit out as it’s number one team , it won’t be without controversy.

By Thrillhouse44

December 2, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

I agree, klob. Is hustling stupid? Should he not field ground balls? Should he never swing the bat because he had Tommy John surgery?

By CC Rider

December 2, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

TO Anders and Efrim(the Mets Fan in the closet). I hope you enjoy stroking each others egos( and hope thats all you stroke). You can look at the MILB.com 50 top prospects list and take what you choose from it, but understand that the list is comprised almost totally on projection not results. There are players like Ross Detwiller who was drafted in the 2007 draft and has thrown only 16 innings, Radhammes Liz who will be 25 shotly after the 2008 season starts and was still in AA last season. Matt Weiters who has only played in the Hawaii winter league and Dexter Fowler who has put up poor numbers ever since he was drafted (I know about Weiters and Fowler because Weiters played at Georgia Tech and Fowler was a high school star in Atlanta where I live). Elvis Andrus who has been touted for the last 3 years but whose actual stats are not that good. Scott Elbert, who pitched a total of 14 innings this year. I could go on and on. Projections are nice but this list is just a guess based mostly on TOOLS not results. The top 100 list of any group: MILB.com, Baseball America Etc. have their own criteria they base thier ratings on. This top 50 is pure projection on tools and as such pointless. Rick Porcello is No. 14 is 18 years old and hasn’t thrown a pitch in the minors. Jacoby Ellsbury has already won a World Series for christsakes. Get real and pick something to discuss that is relevant, not some made up list that is written to appeal to people that don’t pay attention to the minors on a regular basis. Anyone you KNOW?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 2, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

I’ll predict what won’t happen. Georgia will not get the opportunity to play Ohio State.

We know what would happen , Georgia wins and we have a bunch of two and three loss teams ranked in the top ten which would lead to total anarchy.

Instead , LSU will play the Buckeyes and Georgia will probably end up playing Hawaii in the Sugar Bowl.

Giving Ohio State a chance to finish with just one loss , then the BCS idiots can breath a sigh of relief and anoint the Buckeyes the BCS Champions.

By NOLIE

December 2, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this

Historian-Funny you should mention our Farm System and pitching. Here’s a very small analysis. Things are nowhere near as bleak as you might imagine.lEW

But none are rated in the top 50 prospects in baseball. who is it that says that there is no such thing as a pitching prospect? pitchers that low in the minors aren’t even worth thinking about yet

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 1:44 AM | Link to this

Just a quick comment about ranking young prospects, what they are really talking about is the projected potential. So many things can happen on the way to the big leagues. Drugs, poor work ethics, injuries. Not to mention lack of opportunity. How many kids did the Dodgers stash back in the ’60s and ’70s?

Don’t we see the same thing in other sports? How many folks remember in which round Joe Montana was drafted?

So, while interesting to perhaps speculate about potential stars, it is also a good idea to look at which organizations have a good track record at developing the talent they have.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 1:55 AM | Link to this

Random Great link, thanks for sharing.

By Roman Gal

December 2, 2007 1:59 AM | Link to this

Mets Perspective on Lastings Millege Trade

By uga-brave

December 2, 2007 3:51 AM | Link to this

the dawgs at least could use a shot. we would run ohio state.

By uga-brave

December 2, 2007 3:59 AM | Link to this

the dawgs would kill ohio state? knowshon would run all over them. cmon guys’ CMR IS ALREADY IN.

why not?

By uga-brave

December 2, 2007 4:13 AM | Link to this

gil,

the dawgs would KILL the buckeyes. pretty easy. thomas brown would kill LAURATITIS. SORRY gil, but i reaally believe it is what it is. we probably will not get the the chnce though.

By uga-brave

December 2, 2007 4:35 AM | Link to this

GIL?\

sorry my friend, you are astute very astute. i really believe the current mgt, is wizzing in our ears.

By uga-brave

December 2, 2007 4:59 AM | Link to this

gill,

the boy would not of of gone upstairs if he realy believed LMT WAS really gonna spend money.

i think we are screwed. JOHN MALONE, THE prez is pretty much ENRON. braveheart, will tell you dont trust any corporate ownreiship

By uga-brave

December 2, 2007 5:15 AM | Link to this

klober,

knob creek is nice. always been a fan.

By Desperado Dave

December 2, 2007 5:23 AM | Link to this

The Braves may be able to move Kelly Johnson back to the outfield and fill their need for a center fielder. I would put Kelly Johnson in left field, Martin Prado at second base, Jeff Franceour in center and Brandon Jones in right. I am sure Brandon has played right some. I don’t like the plattoon at all. Matt Diaz could come off of the bench and pinch hit. He could also play left or right and give Johson and Jones a day off and if Jones struggles, the job is his. I know what the obvious argument is. Diaz hit well last year and has earned the starting nod. I would want to see how Jones and Diaz do in Spring Training. In the case that Jones just does not look good, Diaz could start in the outfield. I think a lot of Prado as a player. I am equally impressed with KJ as a player, but his defense trailed off noticeably at the end of last season.

By uga-brave

December 2, 2007 5:34 AM | Link to this

desreado,

you serious about wanting to put french in cf. the guy cnt go back on on a long fly.

By NOLIE

December 2, 2007 5:35 AM | Link to this

Baseball Prospectus on Gary Huckaby’s oft quoted line about the utter unreliability of young pitching There is no such thing as a pitching prospect

By Dave

December 2, 2007 7:46 AM | Link to this

I am ok with the Braves signing Glavine I just don’t understand why we had to do draft picks to do it and couldn’t have waited till we could have gotten with no draft choice loss?

By old timer

December 2, 2007 7:52 AM | Link to this

McFann, I didn’t say the Tex acquisition was a bad trade. I just don’t like giving up good players for guys who are gone after a year or two. As DOB corrected me, it isn’t for sure Tex will hit the free-agent market, but his agent has a history of putting his clients out there. And the Braves don’t do much in that market anymore. When you trade young guys who are behind other excellent young players like McCann and Escobar, you might think about acquiring top young players at positions you do need to fill, so they will be around a while.

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this

DESPERADO DAVE:

Diaz certainly has earned the starting nod - and more. From where I’m standing, he is the unquestioned left fielder. While his batting average soared his leather improved. FOUR miscues is ‘06 against TWO in ‘07 while his glove chances increased correspondingly with his plate appearances. But I believe the Braves brass wanted him as a bridge to B. Jones or some other farmhand. Now they are embarrassed to find he’s a keeper. If the management’s long-term plans don’t include him, you will see him traded after ‘08’s season.

Based on what I saw of Prado in Richmond, I believe Martin will prove to be steady, but not spectacular in the majors. With Johnson, Escobar and Lillibridge I think he’s the odd man out in the future. You can’t keep him waiting forever against the vagaries of tomorrow(i.e. injuries to others, flights to free agency, etc.)so I believe he will be traded within the next two years. In the interum he will be given chances to prove his worth to other teams around the league.

And finally, RICHMOND 21 WOFFORD 10: On to the FINAL FOUR my friends. DAVE CLAWSON’s a marked man. Woffard had a well coached team by a former University of Richmond assistant. A lot of respect for a former foe of mine during my playing days(early 60’s-Frederick College). They used to beat us like a tom-tom. Hats off to their effort and tradition.

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

GIL:

I had an intuitive sense about MONTANA. I remember how upset I was the Redskins didn’t draft him. Without looking I’ll say the third round. How’s my memory?

By Efrim

December 2, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this

CC Rider

I’m objective. I don’t sit there and say things like “Lastings Milledge sucks” a couple of months ago, like you probably did, and then go ahead and bash the Mets for not being patient with the kid.

What prospects list isn’t based on projections??? Every single one of them is. If you want to base things on results, then why don’t you call Craig Brazell, who hit 39 home runs in the minors this year, the “Top prospect”. Be real. Hanley Ramirez showed no power in the minors, but scouts still projected him to be a star and power hitter, and look what happened??? He had a career .793 OPS in the minors. Check what he is doing now with the Fish. It isn’t regular fans who made this s** up, it’s scouts who know a thing or two about baseball. Are they always right? No, how could they be?

And to call me a Met fan, well you obviously haven’t paid attention in the last year. I’ve said it a hundred times, I do not HATE the Mets. I dislike them because they are our division rival. I HATE the Yankees and Phillies. I am starting to HATE the Red Sox. Hate the Mets??? Why? What have they won to make me hate them? You ever been to Boston? They never shut up about their teams? Philly? They haven’t won anything, other than this year, since 1993 and they act like they are the team who won 14 division titles in a row. It is pretty awful.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

I am ok with the Braves signing Glavine I just don’t understand why we had to do draft picks to do it and couldn’t have waited till we could have gotten with no draft choice loss?

I’m not sure either. But considering their history with Glavine, it might not have been prudent to mess around with delays. After the last offseason, Glavine probably does not have enough trust or patience with the Braves to believe the Braves were gonna do the right thing with him if he waited an extra month to sign.

Plus, an extra month allows Minaya and the Mets and a bunch of other teams to panic and to start whispering in Glavine’s ear. Waiting around could have been a disaster.

Striking early allowed the Braves to get Glavine at a cheaper price while he was feeling sentimental for a change.

If Glavine waited around, he might have started thinking damn straight I am worth 13 million when all of these other teams started telling him he was.

Plus, it is a marketing thing. After losing Edgar & Andruw so early in the offseason, the Braves sorta needed to act quickly to keep the faith of the fans.

Signing Glavine early placates most and excites many. IF they waited around for a month to sign Glavine, the fans may have become very dissapointed at that point and the Glavine signing may have been viewed in a different light by the fans.

Signing Glavine early was a way for LM to show that they and Frank Wren were serious about getting things done.

I don’t doubt Wren will do the best he can but I remain very skeptical about Liberty Media.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

There will be no legit college football national champion this season. How do they decide amongst all of those 2 loss teams? I almost hope they don’t pick Georgia because that will be a tainted national championship. I really believe anyway that only conference champions should be allowed to play for the national championships. BUt if UGA plays for it, UGA will win …. only if Richt is smart enough to make sure Knowshon totes the rock 25-30 times in the game…. enough of that Thomas Brown b.s.

It’s amazing how important that Dennis Dixon kid was for the Ducks. He goes down, the Ducks went down for the rest of the season

By nOLIE

December 2, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

I am ok with the Braves signing Glavine I just don’t understand why we had to do draft picks to do it and couldn’t have waited till we could have gotten with no draft choice loss?Dave

They were probably pretty certain that the Mets would offer him arb so it wouldn’t matter when they signed him

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

They were probably pretty certain that the Mets would offer him arb so it wouldn’t matter when they signed him

Damn, nOLIE You have to go embarrass me like that? I go off on this speculative rant and you come with knowledge and common sense. Ba@tard!

By chris

December 2, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

I think the braves are the races team in baseball they will not pay none of there black players it been that way for years they holla cap we don’t want go over the cap but they san give 8 mill to and old head that’s some bull

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

DAVE: If the Braves had waited until they’d get no compensatory-draft pick loss for Glavine, they’d have waited forever.

There was no chance, no way, absolutely zero, that the Mets would not offer arbitration. None. Because his arbitration-set salary would have been lower, probably significantly lower, than the $13 million option he already turned down with the Mets.

I don’t know how to be clearer than what I wrote in the lead-in blog. The Mets are scrambling to find a replacement for Glavine, who they really would have loved to have back — perhaps not at a $13 mill salary, but they definitely wanted him back. And they’d love to have him back at $10 mill or so, the salary he’d get through arbitration.

Understand? There was NO WAY they wouldn’t have offered him arbitration today.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Desperado, whether or not Frenchy can play CF, we’ll not know for some time, barring injury. Because the Braves simply are not considering moving him there. They really like him in RF, where he won a Gold Glove, and where his strong arm and other strengths and weaknesses are better suited.

And Kelly’s not moving back to the OF, at least not now. Hasn’t even been talked about, last I asked. If it had been, they’d be looking for a 2B now. They’re not.

By N8

December 2, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

chris

STFU!

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

uga-brave, hate to state the obvious, but if you guys hadn’t been killed by Tennessee (35-14), you’d have a lot better chance at getting a shot to “kill” Ohio State.

That’s how an outsider might view it, at least.

By Tyler

December 2, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

When I think of the Tex trade, one thing comes to mind. Maybe we shouldn’t have let Elvis Andrus go. I know he was incredibly young, but he really excelled when he went over to Texas. And I know we have depth at SS, but if we could have gotten by without giving him up, we could have either had a future STAR in our system or a huge trade chip this year.

I can’t bash Tex, because he’s awesome. And Mahay was solid. But look at the amount we gave up in our trade. And we don’t know if Mahay’s coming back. We don’t know if Tex is coming back. I personally believe we could have found a productive first baseman for a lot less than Tex came at. We traded a guy who hit .285 with 32 HR for a setup guy (A lights out one at that), then I believe we could have used Elvis in a trade for Haren right now or even a stud CF or anything.

But hey, I’m happy to have Tex. I just wish we gave up something more on the lines of Salty, Harrison, Perez, and somebody else not named Elvis for Tex and Mahay. Because when you tihnk about it, we settled for Mahay. We originally wanted CJ Wilson.

By doc

December 2, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

n8

“

:-))

By JC FROM UT

December 2, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

DOB: If you are the GM what do you offer Oakland for Haren? Or would you stand pat and go into the season with what is on the roster now as far as the rotation.

By Nelson

December 2, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

This Team still is lacking of something, I’m sure that we need a solid No. 3 starter, but it is not available or affordable and they made clear that they are looking for nobody else. So at this point my opinion is if we are not spending the money in a “class A” free agent (DOB rating), why we do not strenght the bull-pen as much as we can and keep Dotel and Mahay?, pay them the money!

By Random

December 2, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

chrisklob, Thrillhouse44—

Admittedly, there are two sides to every coin — that’s why the question (vice a declaration).

Running into outfield fences or diving into the turf could be due to hustle, or could be due to being st#pid.

Playing hurt could be due to hustle, or could be due to being st#pid.

Rushing back from rehab and getting re-injured also could be due to hustle, or could be due to being st#pid. Especially were it to become a pattern.

Just asking. It could simply boil down to the eye of the beholder.

By ppaddy123

December 2, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Is it just me or has ESPN lost all credibility because of its propensity to report wild speculation as fact, rather than rumor? Kirk Herbstreet’s little tidbit of info yesterday was just the latest misinformation. And, to make matters worse, they are trying to influence the polls to put the teams in the BCS that they want to see. If ever there was proof positive of the need for a 16 team playoff, this year is it. No offense to Ohio State, UGA, Kansas, LSU or Virginia Tech, but this year there just is not clear dominant team! So the good ol’ boys on ESPN are going to set up the national title game they want to see. Ohio State is not the best football team in the nation! They just happen to be at the right place at the right time. They won their conference because they don’t have a championship game. Basically, they’re #1 because they didn’t play. How stupid is that?

By AJ 25

December 2, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

All this talk about sandwich picks is making me hungry.

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

I have called loudly and long on this blog for the Braves to go after Johan Santana. Recently, I have discovered some research sites in cyberspace and upon analyzing Santana’s record, ‘07 was definitely not a normal year for the hurler. A good year, but definitely not a 20+ million year. I understand he was injured last season, but I am not yet aware of the extent of that injury. So I’m leery of what ‘08 holds for him. Therefore, I’m reversing my position regarding this particular player. Long-term becomes less relevant however, as long as baseball stubbornly refuses to consider a salary-cap. So in that climate, I continue to call on Braves management to seize the day and add one strong arm or one strong hitter. That one player plus a strong bench(which will be done before the ‘08 season)will result in the Braves being division winners again. Glavine is a band-aid which will be removed when the future arrives with arms within the farm-d=system. But asking the system to replace Smoltz AND Glavine plus provide two more slots in the SP over the next five years is asking too much. Jurrjens may be one answer. Then again maybe not. He’s not fully proven yet. A player from the winter meetings besides a bench is needed.

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

NELSON:

Yours of 9:52 a.m. My previous post agrees with you that “…the team is still lacking of something…”

And further to et.al’s, Francouer will stay in right field. And Kelly Johnson was resurrected from the scrap-heap because of his plate discipline and coachability. he stays at second

By N8

December 2, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

chris

OK. I’ve driven to work for the day, and your post is still bugging me. I gave you a quick response before, and now I’m gonna explain.

First of all it’s RACIST, not “races” as you stated.

That spelling error tells me one of two things is true when disecting what you “are”.

1) Either you are one dumb human being, that likes to spew garbage out there, yet you have NO CLUE as to what you are actually saying.

or

2) You are about 11 years old, and have parents THAT HAVE NO CLUE brainwashing you into posting such lunacy on a message board.

Either way….STFU!

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

RANDOM:

Yours of 9:59 a.m. Just ask Gilbert Areanas. Is it hustle or is it st#pid?!

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Random,

Rushing back from rehab and getting re-injured also could be due to hustle, or could be due to being st#pid. Especially were it to become a pattern.

What makes you think that Hampton “rushed” back from rehab? Have you read anything to the effect of “Mike Hampton, against the advice of his medical team and Braves management, will be pitching in Mexico this winter….”? I sure haven’t.

To go against the advice of his doctor would have been stupid. To follow a plan that had been mapped out in the months prior, and get hurt, that is NOT stupid. It’s bad luck, bad karma, age, rust, or whatever. I can’t call it stupid, no matter what side of the coin I’m looking at.

Have you seen the video of him getting hurt in Mexico? Someone posted a link to it from Youtube.com earlier this week. I suggest you look at it and then come back and tell me that Mike Hampton is “stupid”. Dude, that was a freak accident. Could have happened to anyone at anytime.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Nolie-First of all, I would question just where these Top 50 Prospects Lists eventually pan out. Maybe Shaun would know (I don’t say that sarcastically, Shaun) I would imagine there is considerable deviation-probably in as little as a year later.

The point I was trying to make was not that we had numerous MLB ready guys in the pipeline (though with Hanson and Rohrbough, we have two within a couple of years, max), but that seemingly, our focus on drafting pitchers has not only intensified, but changed somewhat. The biggest complaint that I hear is about how the Braves draft pitchers is the lack of power type guys drafted. That focus has certainly changed. Apparently now we draft hard throwers with a several pitch repertoire and pitchers who have command of those pitches.

This makes sense. For years we drafted very low in the draft and had three HOF pitchers on our staff (two of whom were soft tossing control pitchers). The need for great power pitchers was not there as it is now. Be that as it may. It is what it is, but I still contend we have some great young prospects and the future is still bright. If not, then why on earth did the Rangers grab three Braves pitching prospects and the Royals one more? Is it because they were substandard? Doubt it, Dude.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 2, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Ppaddy123, it isn’t really that stupid. Herbstreit is right. Ohio St. benefited from not having to play a conference championship game where they could have been upset. Ohio St. gained by not playing because they didn’t lose. That isn’t that hard to grasp to me. The same goes for Georgia. Georgia failing to make THEIR own conference championship game actually could wind up benefiting them.

Now, I don’t know exactly who is the best team in the country but I can’t see where anybody can reasonably say it is Ohio St. I’m going to use the logic that SEC fans always use. Ohio St. played in a major conference that had average competition. Outside of Wisconsin every other team in that conference was just average. Is Ohio St. better than LSU? Oklahoma? Georgia? Even Missouri? What about West Virginia? And now USC has to be placed back into the mix. It can be easily argued their playing the best football in the country right now.

Fact is a playoff needs to be had. I think its wrong that Hawaii is being shutout. I don’t care about the schedule the played. The fact remains of 117 teams they are the ONLY team to go undefeated. A 16 team playoff, like you said, is desperately needed. What about Virginia Tech? Do you honestly believe Ohio St. could beat Virginia Tech on a neutral field.

The entire thing is a cluster and I for one couldn’t be happier. This season has finally done what other seasons have come close to doing and this showing what a sham the BCS is. The national title game will likely be Ohio St. vs Georgia or LSU. But, the truth is USC, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, and even Kansas, Missouri, and West Virginia have just as many reasons to be there as LSU or Georgia or Ohio St. for that matter.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Nelson, I’m not rating any free agents; I’m giving you their classification according to baseball. The top 20 percent of free agents, by whatever criteria is used for this purpose (I don’t know what it is specifically, other than knowing it’s only for past two years) gets the Class A distinction. I’m merely reporting it.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Got an answer from Braves on Thorman: That was the plan all along, for him to play the first half of the winter-ball season.

Considering he’s got a baby and a wife back in Canada, I can believe that. Otherwise, I’d suspect maybe they were about to trade him.

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

LEW:

Paint me a picture man. I can’t see what you’re selling(just kidding). Yes, it makes sense to draft hard throwers when you have the chance. Third place finishes begin to open up those possibilities. Last place in both leagues would definitely accomplish that end. Problem is arms are problematic. You can draft a dozen arms and not end up with one viable pitcher. I looked up Spahn’s record. His arm must have been made of rubber. So good for so long. Maybe it wasn’t used up in Junior High by some coach wanting a high paying job somewhere else. I’m rambling here just to see myself in print. I should stick to other artistic expressions. Good post Lew. Later…

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

Morning all, Shaping up to be a bad day for me so I doubt you will hear from me much later. It takes me a while to go back and catch up on the post so if I miss someone, sorry.

Rich Brave Yes, Joe Montana was drafted in the third round as the 82nd player taken. I did not mention in the same context Ryan Leaf who was a first rounder and a bust. The point was the difference between potential and reality. It also helps for a player to be in a system they can thrive.

And way to go UR. Looked shaky at first but you are right in that the Richmond coach will be a prize for some struggling Division 1A school. Of course U of R is recovering from their misguided decision to voluntarily cut back on the number of scholarships awarded for football and really paid a price for that.

And good luck with you graduate studies. Never too late but I am still rooting for VCU come roundball season. :-))

As for the speculation on who will play for the BCS Championship, first think money…. Who has the biggest following and will generate the best numbers for TV? You don’t think the BCS committee didn’t cry in their beer last year when Wake Forrest won the ACC Championship and not a Florida school?

Yes, Georgia is one of the strongest teams in the country right now but like Va Tech, they missed their opportunity early in the season. They are just not going to jump over LSU because they did not play in their conference championship game.

Unbeaten Hawaii deserves a shot too. That is one scary team with Colt Brennan but will likely play in a lesser BCS bowl. There is no downside for them, they will be the underdog no matter who they play. But I would not want to play them if I was a big name school.

And as far as Ohio State, two weeks ago they were whining that it was unfair that their season ended so early and could be overlooked.

OU out classed Mizzu last night but West Virginia was exposed for what they are, a one trick pony. Of course that pony will be healed up by January 1st. Other than that, they just choked. So in conclusion, I would not bet money on anybody this year. You could likly drop 20 names in the hat, pull them out to pair them up and any team could beat the other.

You don’t think Virgina is still wondering what the he11 happened against Wyoming when they were blown out in their first game. At least Va Tech was blown out by a powerhouse but I would bet the game would be a lot closer if played again this week.

Now baseball…… If you want to see why teams really hate to commit to a contract longer than 3 years, see Mike Hampton, if you want to know why a player wants a long term contract, see Mike Hampton…. That said, I think he is going to have a stellar year from just the short clip of him we saw the other day. The hamstring was a fluke. The dude can flat out pitch.

Have a good afternoon all will catch you folks later.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

nOLLIE and Lew,

Found an interesting list that you might both want to look at. It’s Baseball America’s Top 100 prospect list from 2001. I dug that one up because I felt that the time that has passed since it was released would give enough perspective as to their careers and would allow for guys that had had major injuries time to recover and contribute.

By my count, and bear in mind that I didn’t do the research for these guys, but just sort of “eye-balled” the list, approximately 50% of the guys on the list have either been total busts in the bigs or have had disappointing careers so far. And by “disappointing” I mean that they have not lived up to the expectations of being on a top prospect list. You may or may not agree on my number exactly, but if you look at it, I don’t think your number will be far from mine.

Braves’ prospects appearing on the list include Wainwright (#18 and doing well), Marte (#40, bust), Betemit (#49, not exactly a bust but not exactly great either), Bubba Nelson (#58, who?), McBride (#68, bust), and Frenchy (#95, rising star).

Here’s the link

By Patrick

December 2, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I thought payroll was going up? What’s with all this cheaper, cheaper, cheapter crap I keep hearing??

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

I don’t know Klobber Looks like that list you put up was pretty darn accurate. The top 25 have for the most part have been pretty successful guys in the big leagues. The rest of the list was hit or miss. Looks like people can sort of figure out who the most talented guys in the minors are but have hard time differentiating between the next 100 guys.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Patrick, that topic has been covered here ad nauseum. Please see DOB’s post yesterday at 12.17 pm.

By CC Rider

December 2, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Efrim: The Milb.com list could be made by anyone on this blog. Pick a bunch of high projectable 2007 draft picks who have little or no stats: Detwiller,Porcello,Vitters, Moustakas,Weiters, Price. Guys that are 24 soon to be 25 and a little old for the prospect list Liz, Clement, Hochevar, Votto, Laroache, Brignac. Yes they have good stats but if they are such hot prospects why are they either still in the minors or worse at AA. You have the tools but no stats to back them up guys: Fowler, Andrus(the Braves are rarely wrong traded players),Andrew McCutchen. Jeremy Jeffress is he that good are is the 50 game suspension he got for steroids use the reason. The injured for the last 2 years Scott Elbert. The I hve been to the NLCS Franklin Morales or worst I ahve won the World Series Jacoby Ellsbury. I could go on but you get my drift. This list is full of IT! What next Projection of high school players, Rich Hardin of the A’s is close to the age of some of these picks and he has been injured for a couple of years, why not him. Last note every on the blog knows your a closet Mets fan. You talk about them at least as much as the Braves and I am not the first To mention it and will not be the last.

By Roman Gal

December 2, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, I love how it talks about Soriano striking out Teixeira 3 times.

By AdirondackDave

December 2, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Gil - I sure hope you are right about Hampton having a good year. If that happens, no upper limit for the Braves. Another thought, if Hampton does have a fine year, then what? Can/would the Braves or any other team sign him this time next year for the serious money he would be looking for? Or would his career be over, regardless of what happens this year…

By AdirondackDave

December 2, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Another thought… and I grant you this one is hardly worth the time to read this… does it really take 15 people to reel in one lefty or good field/no hit back-up shortstop? Kind of reminds me of that old “screw-in the light bulb” joke.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, the cream will always rise to the top, as they say. My point was not too look at only the top 25 but the whole list. That is, afterall, how this discussion got started. My point was that these lists aren’t terribly accurate.

However, to address your point, among the top 25 guys, I count 7 that I consider to be busts: Foppert, Floyd, Stokes, Choi, Nelson, VanBenschoten, Burnett. An argument could be made that Baldelli (injuries), Bonderman (his numbers just aren’t that impressive, especially for having been so highly rated), and Phillips (same reason as Bonderman).

It’s not to say that some of these guys can’t come back and have successful mlb careers. But when 40% of the guys on the list are not major contributors to their teams six years later, then I don’t agree that the list is very accurate. My point is that these lists aren’t particularly accurate or useful. I’m sure we could go back and pick 50 other guys who are having success in the majors now that could/should have been on the list but weren’t.

By nOLIE

December 2, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Nolie-First of all, I would question just where these Top 50 Prospects Lists eventually pan out. Maybe Shaun would know (I don’t say that sarcastically, Shaun) I would imagine there is considerable deviation-probably in as little as a year later.Lew

I mdidn’t mean to sound harsh Lew, I just believe that all pitchers are a crap shoot. I posted a link to BaseballProspectus that pretty much details my opinion too for the most part. Some guys obviously make it and most guys don’t no matter how they are rated. Any pitcher in AA or lower is not worth looking at cause there is absolutely no way to know if they will ever be successful. Sure i’s fun to speculate. but we always need to keep it at that level. The Braves have a rep in MLB as a pitching oriented team that drafts a lot of young pitchers mostly from high school. and they do, but for all that they have produced very few really successful pitchers. Avery & Glavine of course and Schmidt(though it took him quit a while and then he didn’t last long.) It’s easy to look at the young Brave’s pitcher and get kinda excited cause they often have very good minor league stats. Part of this is because the Braves’ minor league stadia are most all pitcher-friendly(to an extreme case in MB. They have had exceptional success over the years hying those young hurlers and trading them away for they need. In fact, you’d think other teams would be leery of that tactic by now. Guess I’m just rambling now. My main point was that there are few things in this world more difficult to successfully project than young pitchers.

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Adirondack Dave:

I vote over - at least with the BRAVES.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

RomanGal, I missed that the first time through, but it is funny!

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

ADave, my guess is that if Hampton can come back and have some success this year, he’ll be back in 09, although not necessarily with the Braves. It would be nice if he would “do the right thing” and re-sign with ATL (if they want him back) at a much lower than market value rate, but I don’t see that happening. The players’ union won’t like it. I can’t see him doing three years of rehab and being satisfied with one year of success.

If he doesn’t contribute this year due to injury, I’d bet that in 09 some team will take a flyer on him, unless he decides to retire. Won’t be the Braves though.

By BravesFanInRockies

December 2, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Morning denizens,

Georgia’s not going to the BCS Mythical Championship game because the Dawgs didn’t win the SEC. It’ll take a lot of contortions to keep them out but that’s how it’ll be.

And I have no problem with that. If you don’t win your conference title, you shouldn’t play for the national championship. The BCS could avert this controversy in the future by simply adopting that rule.

D-1A has as much a chance of organizing a playoff as the Brave do of getting Johan Santana.

The lunacy this season does make you long for the old bowl system. If you’re not going to determine a champion on the field, through some sort of tournament of playoff, then why not keep the traditional bowl allegiances alive, and let the fans and the pollsters have fun debating who’s best?

By nOLIE

December 2, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Found an interesting list that you might both want to look at. It’s Baseball America’s Top 100 prospect list from 2001. I dug that one up because I felt that the time that has passed since it was released would give enough perspective as to their careers and would allow for guys that had had major injuries time to recover and contribute.Chrisklob

thanks for the link. If 50% did well it will surprise me. Pitcher over the years have a much lower rate of success than position players too as I’m sure most here are aware of. I believe in a pitcher after 3 years or more of MLB success and not a moment sooner…and even that often doesn’t work out. ;)

By Jared

December 2, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Damaso Marte? The Braves already have a lefty who’s good for one guy, his name is Royce Ring.

Brian Fuentes would be a much better pickup than Marte. The Rockies though want a third starter type for him. James for Fuentes would work, but I don’t like trading James or depleting the starting pitching depth, plus Fuentes only has one year left and if the Braves can’t extend him it’s a really bad trade.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Nolie-Dude, I never took your response as harsh. I agree, projecting the success of pitchers is difficult, at best. I just contend that the Braves drafting direction with pitchers seems to have changed focus-for the better. You just do things differently when you no longer have 3 HOF starters and an unlimited budget. Drafting successful young pitchers is now much more essential then it was during the earlier part of the streak when we had the 300 game winners and later when we even managed 20 wins from Russ Ortiz and great years from the likes of Jaret Wright and John Burkett.

ChrisKlob-I found that list somewhat interesting-and possibly a bit surprising. I concentrated only on the Top 50 (that’s what we’ve been discussing) and only on the pitchers. There are 18 pitchers among the Top 50 Prospects for 2001. The surprising part was that I counted seven or eight who may well be on their way to a good career and three more who could go either way. That is a MUCH higher percentage of success than I had thought there would be. However, I don’t see a bona fide Clemens or Santana type among them (well, maybe Scott Kazmir, but as long as he’s in St. Pete, who knows?).

By ppaddy123

December 2, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice is the Best) ESPN already has their rankings up and guess how they ranked the teams? Ohio State, LSU, Oklahoma, UGA, Virginia Tech. They can’t even follow their own recommendations! Basicallly, they moved #7 LSU, and #9 Oklahoma (conference champions) ahead of two teams that didn’t play (UGA & Kansas)but left Virgina Tech, also a conference champion, behind. Further proof, in my mind, of how they are trying to influence the polls to suit their desires for match ups they want to see.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Well, I hope Mark Richt is happy. He waits until midseason to wake his team up and to finally start giving Knowshon the ball. He was this darn close to a national championship game. Now the AP rankings are out and Georgia is #4 behind Ohio State, LSU, and Oklahoma. Hope he realizes next season that he does not need to make everyone happy, that three running backs are not better than one running back, and that his team needs to play loose and balls to the wall for the entire season.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville and others. Being a UGA alum, I guess you know who I want in the BCS Championship. Yes, I understand why others are figured to be as good-no doubt. However-if Georgia was good enough to be ranked ahead of all of those teams just last week and didn’t even play, how can you leapfrog over them now? LSU is not only behind Georgia, but behind Kansas as well. So are all the other teams being prominently mentioned. Were the powers that be not aware when the rankings were formulated last week, that LSU was going to the SEC Championship and Georgia wasn’t? Were they not aware that not only Georgia, but Kansas was ranked ahead of them and the rest of the pack?

I just can’t understand exactly what has changed in one week, that the Coaches, the computers and whoever else does the rankings could not foresee happening and yet they still ranked UGA ahead of all those others. You just can’t have it both ways. LSU had all the chance in the world, yet still lost games down the stretch drive. So did Missouri, Kansas and damn near everyone else. Georgia won their final six games and that included wins over Florida, Auburn (yes, I know they were not as great as usual, but…) Kentucky (who beat LSU, as well as their hereditary rival Tech. If all of these other teams were as worthy as now everyone says they are a week later, then why did they not take destiny into their own hands when the chance arose.

No way y’all. The Dawgs deserve the BCS Championship game. Period. If they were good enough to be ranked ahead of the pack a week ago, then they still are. Nothing has changed that could not have been foreseen and dealt with before it got to this point.

By McFann

December 2, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Hi, I’m back. I guess I understand your point about Salty-for-Tex, but hopefully the Braves will be able to hold on to Tex.

I’m confident that McCann will have at least a little bit of a better year defensively—if that’s how you spell that word—in ‘08. Anything’s better than ‘07, right?

By Tyler

December 2, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Someone stated earlier that we need either one good bat, starter, or reliever. I also believe that is the case. Either get a good bat for CF, another good pitcher, or a stud reliever.

I see DeJesus as a good option for CF. As for a starter, Ben Sheets would be the best for the cost. He has injury problems though. It looks like we aren’t getting Haren. As for relievers, Im not really sure. Any ideas?

By Steamboat

December 2, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Lew, what’s changed since last week is that LSU added a quality win over the #14 team, a team that handed us our hat. And OK beat the #1 team in the nation. Did you really expect voters to simply ignore those wins?

I’m hoping we maintain position with the computer rankings and maybe the human vote gets split… obviously, I’d love to see us in the NC game. Kinda’ doubt it though. The SC loss is the one that just kills me.

And agree with Braveheart - I’m not down on Richt, but I’ve never been happy with the tailback by committee system. Hopefully, Knowshon will be the feature back for a couple of years, until Caleb King takes over.

What I REALLY hate is if we end up playing Hawaii in the Sugar. No disrespect meant to them - they did all they could - but there’s no glory in Goliath beating David. We’ll handle them fine, if that’s who we play, but who cares?

Tennessee just killed us all year: first by beating us; then by eaking out lucky wins against KY and Vandy; and finally by losing yesterday. If they’d have won yesterday, we’d be headed for either the NC game or the Rose Bowl.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-Waits to wake up his team? Dude, you better be glad I’m answering you instead of The Grinch. Are you aware that Georgia’s entire offensive line are true freshmen? Are you aware that our star running back is a Red Shirt freshman? That our quarterback is a sophomore? I think that the fact the Dawgs improved to this point and are even being considered for a BCS Championship game speaks volumes about the talent that this team has and to the ability of the coaches who could pull that talent to the forefront so quickly in their young college careers.

Be very wary of the Dawgs in the future. Not only will they get better, but for the last two drafts, we’ve signed the number one Running Back prospect in the U.S. Couple this with the fact that Knowshon Moreno will will a Heisman Trophy by his Junior year and the SEC should quake in their cleats. By the time they all graduate (or leave school, anyway), Richt will have well in excess of 100 wins with Georgia.

By Jared

December 2, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

As for relievers, Im not really sure. Any ideas?

One last time: Brian Fuentes

By Steve from OH

December 2, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

If you go solely on record, the Big Ten and SEC are about equal. 11-1 Ohio State and 11-2 LSU. The Big Ten has two 9-3 teams (Wisconsin and Illinois) to a 9-3 Florida and a 9-4 Tennessee. Of course you guys have a 10-2 Georgia, but hey, they didn’t win their division or conference, so quit whining.

My point for all of this is that the media has basically set precedent for how “strong” a conference is- think about it. At the beginnig of the season the SEC was highly touted and the Big Ten was considered weak. If there are a similiar amount of schools with the same win/loss records, who’s to say that one conference is “better” than the other? I’ll use Kentucky, Alabama, S.C. and Arkansas as proof. In the preseason, they were considered to give the SEC “depth,” so to speak (well, maybe not Kentucky initially). Look what their final records are: 7-5, 6-6, 6-6, and 8-4. Pretty pedestrian if you ask me. Now I’ll admit that Penn State’s 8-4 and Michigan’s 8-4 is pretty pedestrian also, but it just goes to show that you really can’t cross-compare conferences during the regular season. I’ve watched Ohio State play all season and I can easily say that they can handle LSU. Without a doubt. I’ll admit that Georgia does scare me, but hey, win your dang conference and then talk to me. To totally write off Ohio State because of a “weak” Big Ten is pretty condescending to me.

Now I am in no way saying that the Big Ten is stronger than the SEC, but, like I said earlier, it’s pretty difficult to cross-compare conferences based on completely objective rankings and no head-to-head games. Not to mention the two conferences play a completely different style of football. Let’s just say that this year’s bowl season will be very interesting.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, I couldn’t agree with you more: 1. There should be a playoff, but there won’t be anytime soon, if ever. 2. As long as we have this system, no team should be eligible to win the national championship if they don’t win their own conference. 3. The old bowl system was much better than the current system, and the new system makes all the once-grand bowls seem insignificant with the BCS title game looming a week later.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Patrick, see Chrisklob’s 12:27 p.m. post regarding payroll.

By Steve from OH

December 2, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

You guys make good arguments for Georgia, but Steamboat’s 1:42 post about says it all. Do I think Georgia’s a great team? Yes. I personally would be afraid of my Buckeyes playing them. But they didn’t win their conference. End of Story. I’m sorry, but if they were that awesome, they wouldn’t have got killed by a mediocre Tennessee team, who if I remember correctly, got beat by 14 by California.

By Shaun

December 2, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Tyler, I know Sheets has had injury problems but I doubt he’s available. If so, the Brewers probably want much more than he’d be worth in terms of quality young players.

By jim

December 2, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Have you any information on what some of the Braves players are doing this off season?

Is KJ working with Hubbard again on his 2B play?

Is Chuck James installing windows, or is he doing anything to improve his stamina and develop a third pitch?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Lew Being the jaded individual that I am, I want you to know that I do not disagree with your argument. I just know it is all about the money.

I would love to see Va Tech have a shot but I knew it was not going to happen. Georgia has a fine football team but they don’t have the star power. Polls are just what they are, the opinions and educated (sometimes not so educated) guesses of a bunch of folks who often have their own agendas.

I think LSU is going to beat OSU in the “title” game. Best you can hope for is for Georgia to go to the Rose Bowl and put a hurting on USC who are also whining they deserve a little more respect. I think that would be a heck of a game by the way.

I don’t care who you are, their is going to be someone who is left out. At least we don’t have to put up with Notre Dame stinking up the picture this year just because they were bowl eligible.

By Bo

December 2, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Lew- You said it. I totally agree (UGA) nothing has changed. But money talks. Now the Braves need to go after another starting pitcher or big bat other wise we are still a 3rd place team. Its BS about not needing more offense. He who hesitates is lost and the Braves are no better than last year are as good. Glavine is not the answer.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

Steamboat-This situation was not foreseeable a week ago? Come on Dude, anyone could have figured that this eventuality might come to pass. Don’t hand me that stuff about a quality win. If LSU were considered to be all that much better then you rank them ahead of us-not two slots behind. Then if they lose, you adjust the rankings-not vice versa. Besides, they had their butts handed to them by a very weak Arkansas team. They were ranked number one and number two at various points in the past couple of months and failed to maintain their position-not once but TWICE. Twice Dude, not once but twice!!! Their destiny was in their hands-not the BCS. They blew it when they lost two games to way inferior teams (and don’t hand me that triple overtime crap-they should have won in regulation-not lost twice). No way they deserve to leapfrog TWO teams just because they beat a team that will likely slip from the rankings as a result. Lots of teams lose early in the season and work their way back up the rankings. It happens all the time and that is exactly what UGA did. LSU lost two games during the stretch drive. All other teams in consideration would have to leapfrog at least THREE teams. No way. UGA deserves the bid, otherwise they should not have been in that position to begin with.

By Efrim

December 2, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Jared

I like Fuentes a lot as well, but he would probably cost a lot more than the Braves are willing to part with.

Damaso Marte ain’t bad. He has actually been getting better. He can’t face right handers, at least not in leveraged situations, but he is still a very solid left handed reliever.

By McFann

December 2, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Wow. All this talk about football, I thought I was on the wrong blog.

Oh well, time to rake those pesky leaves.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 2, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

First off, I am a Bulldog and have been all my life.

Second , they have two losses and do not deserve to be recognized as the Champions of college football even if they win their bowl game.

Third , we have no undefeated teams left and I won’t recognize any team as being number one.

Fourth , I expect the 2008 Bulldogs to go undefeated and win it all , period.

Fifth , This young Bulldog team has overachieved in spite of not winning it’s division or conference.

Sixth , the BCS system is outdated and antiquated. Until College football has a playoff system in place like every other major sport , we will continue to have this unending carnage if no team goes undefeated.

Sorry guys , it’s been a good season for Georgia football , not a great season. No Championship for the DAWGS this year. Not with two losses.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 2, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Ppaddy, I don’t disagree with you that ESPN could have its own agenda. But, if they were truly ranking teams on the matchup they want to see do you really think it would be Ohio St. vs. LSU. It would more likely be OU or Virginia Tech vs. LSU. Virginia Tech is actually one of the “pampered” ESPN loves to brag on. I’ll tell you the reason right now why Virginia Tech (a conference champ) was placed behind Georgia. Virginia Tech isn’t seen as a team that is more legit than Georgia because Georgia plays in the SEC (a conference some people act like is so tough it might as well be the NFL). That is it. Virginia Tech played in an average conference and beat the best team other than themselves yesterday (Boston College) which isn’t really saying that much. Of course, with all that being said I think Virginia Tech could win a title in a one game playoff as much as anybody else.

Fact is this. A playoff is needed but as DOB and many others on here have said, it will never happen. The Bowls (especially the major ones) have too much control and the NCAA bows to them. I liken the bowl system to the “big market” teams in MLB. They have the money, which means they have the power and the people in charge will always cower to them. Its the same reason we will never see a true salary cap in baseball. The Stankbrenners, Arte Moreno, Fred Wilpon, and John Henry would have a cow. They don’t the playing field to be even because they will always make more money than anybody else..win or lose.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Look y’all-As long as the system is what it is, then you have to go by that system. What DOB says is good-they SHOULD make a rule about not competing for the championship if you don’t win your conference. However, there is no such rule now.

MY whole point is this (and it would remain the same were we not talking about UGA)-if Georgia was good enough a week ago to be ranked two to three or more spots ahead of all the other contenders and they haven’t lost, then they are worthy now. The system remains the same. I think if the Dawgs were not to be considered eligible, then the system shouldn’t have placed them in that position to begin with. They should have ranked LSU, Va Tech or the others ahead of them THEN-not now. Georgia didn’t get any worse and the others didn’t get any better. Yes, we lost to Tennessee, but LSU lost to Kentucky, who we defeated soundly. Meaningless argument on that one.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

McFann, if you haven’t tried mulching them (presuming you have a mulching mower), give it a try. I’ve always raked mine; I’ve got a huge oak tree and a yard that gets completely covered with leaves. But this year I tried mulching them and saved a helluva lot of time. Plus with the drought we’re having, I’m told it adds nutrients to the yard to mulch the leaves.

Of course, you could just light your yard on fire. But the neighbors might object. And, well, your house might burn down.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

McFann Don’t worry, we will soon return to our regularly scheduled programming. Just a soon as there is something to talk about that is relevant.

By Steamboat

December 2, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Lew, hard to tell when you’re angry, or just being Lew! Man, I’m a dawg fan through and through (class of ‘82 - yes, the Herschell years). Just trying to be nonpartisan here, because the alternative is just spitting into the wind.

Yeah, it was “foreseeable” that someone would win the SEC championship; I can imagine many voters saying, a week ago, “Georgia gets the nod right now, but if LSU wins the championship, I’ll put them ahead of the dogs.” I hate to say it, but it makes sense to me. If Tennessee had won, we’d be 3rd. (and if OK had lost, we’d still be 3rd, behind OSU and Mizzou.)

I don’t like the sytem, but far as I know, there’s no BCS committee sitting on high picking the teams. It’s a computer ranking (which we haven’t seen yet) and then a couple of “human” polls - and I doubt there’s any conspiracy working to keep the dogs out of the championship game. It’s people voting based on what they’ve seen.

And honestly, if I’m sitting in the middle of the country, with no ties to any school, I pick LSU above Georgia, based on their record (including beating VA Tech, in addition to FL, Auburn and Tennessee - and South Carolina, who also beat UGA).

I find myself in the uncomfortable position of arguing against the dawgs… not my intention. But I do think (within the ridiculous system that is the BCS), it’s reasonable.

As to the system - I think the BCS/NCAA should impose on the BCS-eligible conferences a requirement that all have a conf. Championship game. Short of a playoff, at least all the major players would have that one last challenge, rather than just half of them. OSU should’ve had to play a Michigan, Illinois, or Penn St. this weekend to secure their position in the BCS.

By $ t inK y

December 2, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Go JayHawks. Woo Hoo!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 2, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Bo , your an idiot.

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Jayhawk hoops team getting all it can handle right now out in L.A. from O.J. Mayo and the 22nd-ranked Trojans. It’s on Fox Sports Net. Very low-scoring game, pretty ragged on both sides, but not too surprising considering the 11 a.m. Pacific Coast start.

By Greg in TN

December 2, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Afternoon denizens…

Polls and rankings are universal, no matter whether we’re talking high school football, college ball or minor league prospects. It’s an educated guess, but it’s a guess nonetheless.

The only difference between the Miss America pageant and the BCS is that there is no Team Congeniality title bestowed by the BCS. Sure, most years there may be one or two that is obviously head and shoulders above the rest, however in the years when there isn’t, well, we have what we have this year. Politics and biases (both regional and otherwise) keep polls from being effective indicators and the computers can’t quite view teams past the numbers they put up on scoreboards every Saturday. I personally would not be opposed to a playoff system alongside (and even including in some cases) the bowls, however college presidents will never part with the cash cow that the current system that’s in place. So schools in the NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (have you ever seen a more silly name in your life?) continue to spin their wheels in the mud. It is what it is.

We should be much closer to finding out how the roster will shape up for 2008. There are payroll questions and concerns from some on Planet Braves, however I am not one that has it as a major concern right now. I can understand in some ways the consternation, but I also think we have a big Texas fish next year that I’d rather wait and try and land to a long term deal than making a splash now. The clamor for signing Tex or trading him at this point is just not realistic IMO. We’ve discussed it before (not to a Crawfordesque degree as of yet, but there is always the chance it could get that way before April), Bora$ will roll the dice and see what happens on the open market. Tex will be a focal point of the lineup next year and to trade him without getting something close to what he’ll bring to the table is in my view, foolish.

By GermanBravesFan

December 2, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Good Morning all from the West Coast!

Seems like the Red Sox upped their offer in the Johan Santana sweepstakes and added Ellsbury to the mix. And the insanity will reach a new level when Santana will ask the winner of the sweepstakes to give him a 6-year, $150 million contract extension. Pure insanity…

DOB: assuming the Braves will talk to some other teams about a center fielder, whom do you consider “expendable” among the current Braves top prospects? I understand that any time you want a good player, you have to be willing to give something in return. I also understand that it depends on the need of the other team, but let’s say the Braves make an offer for DeJesus from Kansas City, what would their needs be and what would the Braves potentially need to give up?

Do the Braves consider any of their current prospects “untouchable?” I would think that with the emergence of Escobar, Lillibridge might be one of the “expendables” I mentioned above (unless the Braves want to convert him to play a different position).

I always find it quite interesting to look into trade options and to see what’s realistic.

Speaking about realistic, do the A’s even consider trading Haren?

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Jayhawks, the KU hoops team getting all it can handle right now out in L.A. from O.J. Mayo and the 22nd-ranked Trojans. It’s on Fox Sports Net. Very low-scoring game, Trojans up at the half. Pretty ragged on both sides, but not too surprising considering the 11 a.m. Pacific Coast start.

By Jared

December 2, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

“Bo , your an idiot.”

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Buster is reporting the Sox are willing to trade Ellsbury to Twins in a Santana deal. If true, I’d imagine Coco Crisp might not be so expendable, unless Sox have another deal in the works should they lose Ellsbury.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Steamboat-I’m not the least angry or upset. Just passionate about my Dawgs. I was there the same time you were-saw every game Herschel played tween the Hedges and was the guy that painted the S$EC mascots on the side of the Sub and Steak at Five points. Also painted Herschel breaking the SEC scoring record which hung in Yudi’s for years.

I agree the system is flawed, at the very least. The only point I was trying to make was that Georgia should not have been ranked where they were or put in this position, if they were not to be considered. You can’t give with one hand and take away with the other.

I never would have anticipated playing for the Championship with two losses, had not the BCS put us where we were in the rankings. Remember-they did it not the Dawgs. Changing rules from one week to the next is not a good policy. If we were good enough last week then we are good enough now-otherwise we should have been ranked 6th or 7th-not fourth.

By McFann

December 2, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Oh-no! You don’t mean that the Sox want to get rid of “Tacoby Bellsbury,” do you?

I’m only kidding. That was one nick-name that I knew would never last!

By Jared

December 2, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Good. Who in their right mind would want to pay four million dollars to Crisp to suck with the Braves in 2008?

The winter meetings start tomorrow. They’ve completely snuck up on me this year. I guess because in the past, there was always something interesting being talked about. Will the Braves get Tim Hudson? Who will the Braves get as their closer? Will Andy Marte be traded? Will Adam LaRoche be traded?

This year? “The Braves feel they are pretty much done already. However they are looking into obtaining a left-handed reliever, like maybe Jeremey Affeldt.”

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

By Gator

December 2, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

I think the only way we have a chance of aquiring Crisp is if the Red Sox lose out to the Yankees for Santana. If they do get Santana, Crisp will either be in the trade or the starting CF. I do believe that the Steinbrenners are too proud to lose this one. They will offer anything the Twins want no matter what Cashman says. Hughes/Cabrera/Gonzalez for Santana sounds good to me.

By McFann

December 2, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Well, the raking wasn’t too big of a problem—considering my brother is mowing all the one’s in the back, and my sister and I did the front. Of course we had some help from our father, too. And don’t worry, we are not about to burn our leaves!! If there’s one thing we dislike about fall, it’s the smell of burning leaves! Thankfully most of the nuts around us that usually do it haven’t this year—whoa! Did that sentence make sense to any of you?

By AdirondackDave

December 2, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan — That report of the Red Sox adding Ellsbury to the deal to get Santana is not insanity in my mind. And yes, $150M for 6 years sounds beyond the pale but they would probably settle around $21-22M x 6 plus option year. Not quite so ghastly considering his talent.

Now, balance all that against this: add Santana to Boston’s already strong rotation and deadly offense and you have the Steinbrenner clan’s worst nightmare. It would be CPR-time in NYC and Tampa.

By Random

December 2, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

chrisklob—

Don’t get me wrong — I’m not tellin’ nobody nothin’ ‘bout Hampton. Right now, I’m just askin’.

I’ve been looking for a clip of that play — thanks for pointing me to youtube (never been there before).

Later.

By GermanBravesFan

December 2, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave: the only thing I thought was insane was the salary of $25 million per year for a pitcher. The only athlete I still consider worth that much money was Michael Jordan because that guy stepped up EVERY time!

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

McFann, I was kidding about burning your yard. I know some out in the country burn piles of leaves, but I don’t think anyone actually lights their yard on fire. Or maybe they do.

By TexasBrave

December 2, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Lew - I thing the problem lies within the human equation. The pollsters come out early with who they believe are the top teams and for the most part those are the teams at or near the top all season. Then they get in this carousel when one team gets knocked off they go back to the end of the line and have to keep winning hoping for other teams to get knocked off as they try to climb back to the top. IMO, for the most part, the majority of the pollsters get stuck in a rut of moving teams up and down when they win or lose and don’t take in enough consideration of where they are placing teams and whether or not the teams that are ahead of them are actually better.

Your Dawgs were beaten early then came together and finished strong while other teams played well early and were beaten recently. Is Missouri, West Virgina and Ohio St. Better than Georgia? I say no! However, I do believe there are teams that are below them that are, yet they are ranked below not because Georgia is better but because they lost more recently than the Bulldogs.

Until you can take out the human equation in the polls this type of thing is going to happen. And as long as they have the human equation I believe that a playoff system is needed. Because we need a buffer system that will allow for good teams who suffer a late season losses to be still in the mix for the National Championship especially when there isn’t a clear #1 and #2.

By Roman Gal

December 2, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Interesting Article on Foxsports.com

By scotty

December 2, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Steve in Ohio: Before you start bashing a Tennessee team for losing to California, all I can say is at least we played our nonconference schedule outside of our home state. Granted, the Buckeyes are the unquestioned champions of the state of Ohio and did beat 4-8 Washington on the road, but are you serious when you compare the Little Ten to the SEC? Do you remember what happened last season when the vaunted and undefeateted Buckeyes with a Heisman Trophy quarterback faced an SEC Champion(Florida)? They folded up like a cheap chaize lounge chair. My choice for “The Big Game” is Georgia vs. L.S.U. Oh by the way, at least Georgia is in a conference that actually competes all season for the right to play in a conference championship game.

By Steamboat

December 2, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Lew, that’s cool… I didn’t know about your Athens roots. Wish I remembered your artwork in Athens, but then again, I’m sure there’s a lot of fine things I don’t remember from ‘78-‘82. Go Dawgs!

By Lew

December 2, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Texas Brave-I hear what you’re saying, but that’s the way it has been since I was a kid-many years ago-not just in recent years with the BCS. I still contend-if you’re good enough for #4 one week and two teams in front of you lose, then no one should leapfrog you by two or more positions when you haven’t lost. It certainly was something that should have been taken into consideration-last week-this scenario was quite foreseeable-I heard it being discussed before the rankings came out. Why, then , did they not rank Georgia lower. It just makes no sense the way they did it-BCS or no.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

I’m less bothered by the two losses than most are. I mean, I wish we hadn’t lost them (especially after we ended up beating Florida and Auburn for a change), but I think we will see it happening a bit more in the future. There are some really good football teams out there-as evidenced by this controversy-and all have made good points for their teams. I think that with the country wide talent level being what it is and with the realignment of some of the conferences, I think that all conferences can be damn tough to play in. We may well see lots more two loss excellent teams the next few years.

By Steve from OH

December 2, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Kinda like how Penn State beat Tennessee last year or how Wisconsin held Darren McFadden and Felix Jones to 14 points? It’s foolish to compare previous years in college football. And besides, its not Ohio State’s fault that the Big Ten doesn’t have a championship game (my personal opinion is that they shouldn’t; they should just play everyone in the conference once). Sure, their non-conference schedule was weak this year, but in previous years they had Texas and upcoming they have USC and Virginia Tech after that. So, yeah, they did have a poor out-of-conference schedule, but that’s kind of bad luck at this point.

And Georgia competed their way to a second place finish in the SEC East, getting beat by a mediocre Tennessee team. That’s really the only argumen here. Ohio State is the champion of a major conference and Georgia couldn’t win their division.

Just for the record, I do think the SEC is the best conference in CFB, but it’s not as good as ESPN and the SEC fans make it out to be. Remember that the rankings are objective before you jump to conclusions.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Interesting article on Hank Aaron being nominated for SI’s Sportsman of the Year.

By Steve from OH

December 2, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

And yeah, Western Carolina and Troy are fantastic opponents. Put ‘em in the title game!

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

McFann I would go back to talking about baseball if I had something about baseball to talk about. I think me and the rest of ya are tired of reading me have imaginary arguments with the folks at Liberty Media.

Lew A problem with your argument is that Virginia Tech was ranked ahead of LSU last week and LSU beat the ever living snot out of Virginia Tech by 41 points earlier this year. The polls just stink. I wish Georgia were in the title game but I also don’t want them to be in it this year this way…. it’s gonna be tainted for whoever wins it. I don’t think Georgia wants to be the one shouldering that burden.

I think UGA just might be the best team and could beat anyone out there. Almost any team in the top 10 right now could win a national championship including Florida if there was a playoff format. But you have to win your conference championship if you want to win a national championship. How would this look? #2 in the SEC East, #3 in the SEC, #1 in the nation? HUH?!?!?!?

And, Lew, I’m not buying it. Richt did take too long to motivate his team this year. It was pretty darn clear. The whole release the hounds thing against Florida, the Soulja Boy dance routine, the black jerseys, and so on. He just took too long to wake his team up. And yeah the QB, RB, and O-Line are young but those are darn excuses.

Bottomline, Knowshon Moreno kicked a@@ in that Gamecock game and should have had more than 14 carries in that game. Richt just wants to please every running back and is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much in love with Thomas Brown - about the hardest working, most dedicated Dawg there could be - but, alas, just another average college running back who should not be standing in the way of a special running back, even if only a freshman, who ignites his team and makes his team win. Moreno is the kind of special RB who makes you win championships. Thomas Brown makes you finish third and lose games to South Carolina.

Games like Tennessee just happen. Can’t blame that Volunteer game on lack of proper coach motivation. If a player at any SEC school needs to have their coach motivate them to play Tennessee, that player deserves to have their scholarship yanked from them immediately. Inexplicable results like the Tennessee game happen sometimes in a long season. But that South Carolina game was just inexcusable. Terribly inexcusable.

I think that the fact the Dawgs improved to this point and are even being considered for a BCS Championship game speaks volumes about the talent that this team has and to the ability of the coaches who could pull that talent to the forefront so quickly in their young college careers.

Lew, yes, the talent was there all along and that is my point. Richt has a bad habit of not playing the best players or the right personnel groups because he likes to please everyone on the team. Thomas Brown is a nice little average college running back but Moreno is special. Georgia did not start rolling until Brown and Lump were out and Richt was forced to start playing his best player.

Lew, it’s okay to demand excellence from your teams every once in a while and stop settling for mediocrity and excuses and aw shucks we’ll get ‘em next year. Next year rarely comes and what usually comes the next year if more settling for mediocrity, excuses and even more aw shucks we’ll give ‘em hell next year. With the Braves, it’s always one thing or another. With Georgia, it is apparently how young the team is blah, blah, blah. The problem is the whole world could see who the best player on the team was 6 weeks before the coach could.

Just watch next year. Caleb King is a pretty special RB as well. I have seen him play a few times and he was a high school classmate of my lil’ sister. But, just you watch, Richt will find a way to screw up a game or two trying to keep both Knowshon and Caleb happy instead of just giving Knowshon the ball until he can’t carry it anymore. It’s okay to make a special player wait if there is a special player ahead of him. It’s supposed to be about what is best for the team and not what is best for the player and recruiting the next player.

Think about how many times UGA was hurt during the Greene/DJ years because Richt was always putting in DJ for who knows what reason and breaking up momentum, flow, and continuity in big spots. I personally think DJ was the better QB but that’s beside the point. If Greene was the starter, and he was a damn good one and never did anything to deserve losing his job, then the DJ should have rarely, if ever, played in a game Greene started.

The Dawgs won the SEC in 2005 because Richt was forced to play one QB. They started rolling at the end of last season because Richt finally started playing his best QB. The Dawgs started rolling at the end of this season because Richt started giving the rock 20 times a game to his best player.

When Richt starts messing around trying to please all the QBs and all the RBs, problems arise and the team does not gel offensively the way that it should. The 2002 team on the other hand was so freaking dominant from a talent standpoint that they could overcome it - although Richt could still not find a way to overcome Florida that year when he should have.

And there was a drastic difference in how motivated his team was following the Vandy game as opposed to how lethargic they were before the Vandy game. To Richt’s credit, I think he did a whole lot of soul searching following the whole stomp on the logo thing by his players following that Vandy game and decided he needed to let his boys be themselves and cut loose. I love Richt for the way he chewed out his boys and pushed and shoved them when they acted that way at Vandy but then was wise enough to turn around and channel that misdirected youthful exuberance in a more healthy productive manner conducive to winning football games. Every great coach, including Bear Bryant, had periods where things were kind of stalling out for him and his team and they had to find and learn and implement new methods to get over the hump. But that still does not mean the old way was not working. And Richt’s demeanor was not working in the first half of the season. He needed to find a new way to get in touch with his team and he found it. Unfortunately, it was too late in the season to make up for losing to Tennessee and South Carolina.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Steve from Ohio No offense, man, but the Big 10 reeks. They really do. Who are the good teams there? Ohio State has had a free pass for years in that conference. There’s no depth to that conference and it’s not exactly top heavy anymore either. At least, at one time, you could say Penn State, Michigan, and Ohio State were beasts but that’s not true anymore. Ohio State is still on top but Penn State is garbage now and Michigan hasn’t been right for several years now. Tressel has messed up Michigan pretty bad.

The SEC does go 9 deep. The biggest problem with the SEC this year is the lack of adequate QBs. What has made this even more of a problem is that the SEC has gotten away from pounding the football with the run. Only Georgia, Kentucky, and Florida have good QB play on a consistent basis. Matt Flynn and Voodoo Periloux are the reason LSU struggles so much against decent teams. LSU, Tennessee, South Carolina, Alabama, Auburn, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Arkansas have just had mediocre to horrible QB play this year which have undermined each team and made each game so unpredictable in the results.

By McFann

December 2, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Oh, believe me, DOB, I wasn’t taking your advice about setting the yard on fire seriously. I just wanted to let everyone know that we hate burning leaves.

By Steve from OH

December 2, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: I agree that the Big Ten is down this year, but that’s no reason to exclude a good Ohio State team. All I’m saying is that the “depth” that is attributed to the SEC is based on very objective rankings, and I don’t believe that some of that depth is really there (see: South Carolina). Anyway, I’ve never said that the Big Ten is stronger than the SEC, and I never said that Georgia isn’t good enough to be in the Title game, I just think that you should have to win your conference first, that’s all.

As for Ohio State having a free pass for years, I can’t say that I agree. At all. They’ve played well and had a lot of success since Tressel came on board, but remember when John Cooper couldn’t buy a win against Michigan? As you said, Penn State and Michigan are traditionally strong, and Wisconsin has been good lately. Don’t go dissing a good Ohio State team just because Penn State sucks this year. I’ve watched Ohio State all year and have watched several LSU gmaes and I can honestly say that OSU matches up quite well with LSU. OSU’s defense is very underrated. If Boeckman can step up and have a great game, OSU will be very difficult to beat.

Whew. I’m done with this subject. Who else thinks Wren will pull of a surprising deal at the winter meetings?

By Steve from OH

December 2, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: I agree that the Big Ten is down this year, but that’s no reason to exclude a good Ohio State team. All I’m saying is that the “depth” that is attributed to the SEC is based on very objective rankings, and I don’t believe that some of that depth is really there (see: South Carolina). Anyway, I’ve never said that the Big Ten is stronger than the SEC, and I never said that Georgia isn’t good enough to be in the Title game, I just think that you should have to win your conference first, that’s all.

As for Ohio State having a free pass for years, I can’t say that I agree. At all. They’ve played well and had a lot of success since Tressel came on board, but remember when John Cooper couldn’t buy a win against Michigan? As you said, Penn State and Michigan are traditionally strong, and Wisconsin has been good lately. Don’t go dissing a good Ohio State team just because Penn State sucks this year. I’ve watched Ohio State all year and have watched several LSU gmaes and I can honestly say that OSU matches up quite well with LSU. OSU’s defense is very underrated. If Boeckman can step up and have a great game, OSU will be very difficult to beat.

Whew. I’m done with this subject. Who else thinks Wren will pull of a surprising deal at the winter meetings?

By TexasBrave

December 2, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

Lew - I totally get you man and I feel for you. My Sooners were placed in front of your Dogs in the Coaches poll. Which if the pollsters had stuck with what they were doing all year, then Georgia would be a few spots ahead of Oklahoma.

I mean seriously who truly believed that Missouri or even Kansas (sorry DOB) were the best teams in the nation the last couple of weeks? Not I! Missouri is definitely a top 10 team and Kansas somewhere below that, but not the #1 team in the country.

If all the coaches would take the time and analyze each teams strengths and weaknesses and placed them accordingly then you would have some semblance of where teams truly are. And I think that is what they did this week for the most part. Notice they still had the wherewithal not to rank Hawaii in the top 10 or even #1 because they were undefeated which makes be wonder why they did it for Mizzu and KU.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

The problem with any idea of a salary cap in baseball is that it would also have to include a whole lot of revenue sharing in addition. Just don’t see the big boys agreeing to that.

The simple implementation of a salary cap (and just as important, or more so, a salary floor) without revenue sharing would solve nothing. The big boys would have so much money left over and would pour it all into scouting and player development, giving the boys a huge competitive advantage. The Yankees and Mets could end up with 15 or so official and unoffical minor league teams.

With a salary cap and without revenue sharing, what would stop the big boys from going to Asia and Latin America and setting up tons of academies and scooping up every kid out there? They could even have more bonus babies, pay the kids a ton in front loaded contracts, and have them just sit down in the minors or be making very little in the majors for the first 7, 8, 9 years of their career because so much of their money was frontloaded in bonuses when they signed. That would be a variation of the game the big boys would play to get around the salary caps.

What then would stop big American high school and college prospects from moving to Latin America or Asia so they are not subject to the draft and sign huge bonus baby contracts with the big boys and never be available for the poorer teams to draft?

SO, if there is to someday be a salary cap, there would have to be revenue sharing and a salary floor implemented. Don’t know if the cheap teams are gonna want a salary floor. Also, how fair would it be to the Yankees, Mets and other teams who have financed new stadiums and built those stadiums and television networks and such based upon projected business models and future financial performance to then have MLB cut tremendously into their revenue and profits and not be able to pay their bills. I know most don’t care to hear the Yankees or Mets cry about not paying their bills but alot of their present and future business decisions have already been made based upon the present model. While the overall business of baseball may end up better as a result of revenue sharing, too many of the big boys could face significant financial difficulties meeting the financial burdens they have taken on under the present baseball financial model if revenue sharing is ever implemented.

By ed

December 2, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Johnny Damon to the braves is a rumor in the NY Post today. I don’t see that happening, though. Unless NYY basically paid the whole salary.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/02/ny-post-johnny-damon-to-the-braves/

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

TexasBrave, it’s that old midwest conspiracy, I guess. Like the New York/ESPN conspiracy for baseball. That’s gotta be it.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Steve from Ohio Oh, don’t get me wrong. Ohio State won their conference championship and only have one loss. They are clearly right now the only team that should legitimately be playing in the national championship right now.

By Luther

December 2, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the same guys that voted Oklahoma ahead of Georgia because they didn’t win their Conference Championship voted Oklahoma ahead of USC in 2003 even though they didn’t win theirs(35-7 stomping by K-State no less). Nebraska as well a few years before that. Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

By TexasBrave

December 2, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

Braveheart - I am sure you know that Ohio St. did not win a conference championship they just one the conference. IMO a championship is when you have a playoff of some type to determine a champion. There was no playoff. If there had been they would have most likely ended up playing Illinois again and we all know how that game turned out last time on OSU’s home field.

By scotty

December 2, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

The SEC is that good. If LSU, Georgia, or Florida had played in the Big Ten, they would have been undefeated this season. When OSU played the only decent team they faced on their schedule this season they lost and at home, too.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Texas Brave I know they did not win a conference championship game but Ohio State was the conference champion. Oh, I am sorry, THE Ohio State was the conference champion. Pretentious clowns. But you don’t have to win a conference championship game to win the conference championship if your conference does not have a championship game. If you definition of it was true, the Braves should shut the hell up about the 14 division titles. Can’t have it both ways now, can we?

I don’t think Ohio State would have lost to Illinois a second time. That was just one of those games. Conference championship games are not really a big deal anyway. Not very often does the better team lose - with the notable exceptions being Oklahoma and Nebraska. Conference championship games are usually nothing more than an entertaining formality. BUt it’s pretty sad when the second best coach in the Big 10 is FireRonZook.com.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-There would be a problem with my argument if I were arguing anything other than that the system is an absolute FUBAR Production. Like I said, when Georgia lost their second game of the season to Tennessee, I discounted any chance of contending for the Championship.

However, I’m a loyal Dawg fan. Just who do you expect me to want in the BCS Title Game? If Bama were the team in our position, you would be irrational to the point of absurdity-maybe more so than me, because Bama doesn’t really stand a snowball’s chance-This year, next year, or in the foreseeable future. Your whole rant is a byproduct of that knowledge and nothing else. What do you care when Richt got his team motivated or whether or not that or inexperience caused our early failures? We still kicked y’all’s butts, didn’t we? We’ll do it again for the next several years, too (if we play you), because we will have a Championship team in the next few years-or at the very least, a team that will negate all of this debate. How’s that for smack talk, Bama Boy?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 2, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

Some people need to get a grip on reality. Johan Santana isn’t just any pitcher , he is arguably the best lefty in the game and barring injury , on a collision course with the Hall of Fame.

If the Yankees let him get away because they refuse to include two top pitching prospects and a total of at least four players , they are just incredibly stupid.

Santana is a proven commodity with all the intangibles. I mean , the Braves forked over five players for a first baseman(Mark Teixeira) and two months of pitching from Ron Mahay.

Mark Teixeira’s value is high , but he isn’t the best player at his position.

Johan Santana is 28 , he already has two Cy Young awards with the Twins. He guarantee’s 20-25 team wins in a season and his value is much higher as starting pitching is the most sought after commodity in the game.

How in God’s name can the Yankee’s not be offering four to five players ????? Are they really this ignorant ????

If the Red Sox get him for three players it will be the steal of the century , not to mention being the beginning of a dominant dynasty.

By Random

December 2, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

* chrisklob*—

Okay, I’ve watched the YouTube clip of Hampton’s injury. I note that he finishes his pitches on the first base side of the mound, landing on his left foot. I note that the ground ball was on the third base side of the mound, to Hampton’s right. I note that Hampton executed a split as he slid his right foot over to try to block the grounder, followed by his glove. Maybe others see more and/or less. I also note that it was a totally meaningless game for Hampton and the Braves, at least insofar as winning or losing.

You conclude that Dude, that was a freak accident. Could have happened to anyone at anytime. I agree that it could have happened to anyone (I mean, it did happen to Hampton) – but anytime? During a meaningless WB game, with a pitcher working on his arm after surgery and rehab? No, I disagree there — imo it should not have happened to any pitcher coming back from surgery and rehab. Hampton should never have even thought about trying to stop or field any ball in play — that’s not what he was there for.

What was Hampton at 2007 Spring Training for? To work his arm. Period. Not to take BP. How does he injure his oblique? During BP. (I note here and concede that it was a subsequent arm injury that forced the latest surgery and sidelining. That’s not my point – I’m not faulting him for that. As you say, bad luck, bad karma, age, rust, or whatever — he presumably hurt it in the actual process of rehab pitching.)

What was Hampton playing 2007 Winter Ball for? To work his arm. Period. Not to take grounders, not to get into playing shape for next season. How does he injure his hamstring? Going after a grounder that under the circumstances he should have just waved at. Hell, he shouldn’t even have waved at it –- maybe just nodded or something.

I’m not saying Hampton went “against the advice of his doctor” or medical team, or failed “To follow a plan that had been mapped out in the months prior.” However, doctors’ advice and the best laid plans cannot hope and do not attempt to cover every possible contingency. That’s where good common sense (”anti-st#pidity”, if you will) comes into play.

I still think my initial question is a valid one. I’m not saying he is or isn’t st#pid, but he’s sure got me wondering. That’s why I ask.

Oh, and taking BP or fielding grounders while rehabbing your pitching arm is what I would consider “rushing” rehab.

By The Ultimate Choptimist

December 2, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this

Alls I can say is what the hell?!?! I mean…all week they said, if Mizz and WVa lose, then GA gets into the Champ game….but it’ll never happen b/c no way WVa loses to Pitt. Then, when it does happen, now here comes the usual suspects…Ohio State, Okla, LSU, etc, jumping 3,4, 7 spots to go ahead of UGA.

Aren’t people SICK TO DEATH of the same ole same ole in the champ game?!?! Hell, if I knew it would’ve worked out like this, I would have been pulling for Mizz and WVa….at least it would have been something different and compelling to watch in the champ game. Now it’s just the usual overrated big name team who played NOBODY all year and didn’t even have to play a conference champ game, versus another big name team that got lucky at the end. The only drama will be to see which of them blows the other out this time.

By D.B. Cooper (formerly Glass Half Full)

December 2, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

But do the coaches know that Ohio State vs. LSU will not be a good game? It’s hard to not be 11-1 in the Big Ten and no one should be surprised that Hawaii is undefeated. LSU gets beaten by an unranked team at home, then beats Tennessee by a touchdown and all of sudden they’re the 2nd best team in the country behind Ohio State no less? I don’t think so. If Georgia can’t be in it, then give the shot to Oklahoma. They beat the #1 team and beat them earlier this year.

By ncscoots

December 2, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this

Coach is on point re Johan. People tend to get caught up in the large number he’s going to command, his cost, instead of his value. Which is off the charts. He’s not arguably the best pitcher in baseball, he is the best pitcher in baseball, with his prime in front of him. He’s worth every penny and prospect.

In fact, were I the commish, I might have to void a deal to the Red Sox “in the interest of baseball”, LOL. Johan and Josh, plus the young pitching coming along, PLUS Manny and Papi?!?

Bubba, that just ain’t right. :-)

By AdirondackDave

December 2, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

Coach - You get it just right. Given the cash resources the Yanks have, they would be foolish not to throw as many prospects as it takes to get Santana. The Red Sox are way less desparate but will surely grab a young, proven stud if they don’t get Santana. If I were a betting man, though, I would put my money on the Yanks NOT getting Santana. Just something about the difference in club competence or karma or something but my hunch is that the Sox reel him in.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

Random,

What was Hampton at 2007 Spring Training for? To work his arm. Period……What was Hampton playing 2007 Winter Ball for? To work his arm. Period.

Dead wrong. The last time I checked, pitchers in the NL had to field their position as well as pick up a bat and swing it from time to time. Oh, and you may recall that Hampton has had better than average success as a hitter over the years. You can bet that he wanted to take BP just as much as he needed to.

Should he have allowed that ball to get past him? Probably. I won’t argue with you there although I will make one point here. First of all, what period of time elapsed between the bat hitting the ball and Hampton realizing that he might have had a play on it? Whatever the number, it’s pretty damn small. That ball came back at him faster than he could go through the thought process of “gosh, I think I can make a play on that ball, but golly gee, I’d sure hate to pull my hamstring if I slip and fall down”. No, he made a reaction to the ball coming back towards him. It’s what he’s trained to do since he was probably six years old.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to see some actual baseball talk on a baseball blog. This football talk is making me sleepy. But your argument is completely ridiculous and while you won’t just step up and say you think Hampton is stupid, just the thought that you would question his intelligence based on a couple of freak accidents is, quite frankly, stupid.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Lew, what do I care? Dude, I watch every single Georgia game, root like hell for ‘em (unless they are playing Bama), and get as pi$$ed off about the way things turn out as anyone. Am I as diehard as you and Grinch? No. It’s not a lifelong passion for me like it is for the Grinch or a three decade thing for me yet like it is for you. But dude I have been right there watching each and every game for the past 8 years. .

If Bama was in the position Georgia is in right now, I would probably not be pi$$ed at the pollsters. I would be pi$$ed at Saban for not beating some crappy team in the second game of the season because he got outcoached, did not play his best player enough, and did not motivate his team properly.

You don’t hear DOB crying and he has a right to cry as much as Georgia fans. His team only has one loss. It’s not like Georgia can claim Kansas had a weak out of conference schedule when the one big game Georgia had out of conference was a team Kansas beat just as bad as Georgia did.

And, dude, you have no idea how much I want Georgia to win the national championship. I really want them to win it bad. I am a fan of the Dawgs dude. But teams that don’t win the conference championship don’t deserve to play for a national championship. I’m not gonna sit here and cry about pollsters when they should not have lost to South Carolina and should not have been so lifeless against Tennessee and did not win a conference or a national championship as a result.

Funny you should say you kicked Bama’s butt this year. Dude, the game went to overtime. More correctly, it inexcusably went to overtime. But you are right. Bama did indeed get their butt kicked this year by the Dawgs. But you know what? I remember during that game when Georgia was handing it to Bama and when things got the bleakest for Bama, saying don’t worry because Richt does not have the killer instinct and will let Bama creep back into this game - Which is precisely what happened.

Bama stunk this year something awful. Georgia pounded Bama and should have won by 30 points in that game. But Richt’s lack of killer instinct and failure to continuously motivate his players throughout the entire season and games caused Bama to inexcuably bring that game to overtime.

This was not meant to be smack talk about Bama vs. UGA. Bama stinks. UGA doesn’t but they will always trip over a pebble and fall flat on their face at least once or twice a season with Richt as their head coach unless he motivates his team and plays the right players throughout an entire season and throughout entire games like he did in the games after the Vandy game. He’s a fine coach. Hopefully, he learned a valuable lesson in the second half of the season this year and will carry it through the entire season next year.

Being angry at the pollsters is fine but is misdirected. Alot of that needs to be directed at Richt for those South Carolina and Tennessee performances. The fault lies with Richt, not with the pollsters.

By AdirondackDave

December 2, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

NCscoots — Yes, but every living being who follows baseball knows that “in the interest of baseball” under Selig means in the interest of controlling baseball owners. Certainly not the fans or game integrity and certainly not equitable or anything approaching remotely level-field competition between the teams. This paltry revenue-sharing scheme doesn’t come close to solving the problem.

By SLICK AD

December 2, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

I HOPE Andru get on the METS and hit homeruns against the BRAVES. I don’t agree with the way they treated the best centerfielder the Braves have ever had or the best in the league as anyone in the league can see.

By ed

December 2, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

Umm…winter meetings are tomorrow! Let’s talk baseball. this is pretty hilarious…a poem about the winter meetings.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/02/the-night-before-the-winter-meetings/

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

Random I hate to do this but you called me an idiot for what I said in my irrational Liberty Media rants a few weeks ago. Your irrational take on this Hampton matter deserves a big old Your And Idiot right back at ya, bud. Now, we’re even.

By Savannah Guy

December 2, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Klobber That was a good article on Aaron you linked. Nice to see the man get the honors. He’s got class.

TexasBrave Kept forgetting…thanks for the good words other day. Random Dittos that. Actually the “sonnet” was either an English sequence form that suited my purpose, a twisting of the genre, a complete and ruthless scrapping of tradition or just a little joke. Take your pick. I’m sure even Shakespeare and e.e. cummings would have approved by rolling in their respective graves.

By SLICK AD

December 2, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

The Braves really are getting rid of and trading their Black players from their club. I wonder how many AFRICAN AMERICAN BASEBALL PLAYERS THEY HAVE IN THE ORGANIZATION NOW !!!!

By Greg in TN

December 2, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

The Kaz Matsui signing by the ‘Stros is in the books now to the tune of 3 years/$16.5 million taking into account a $1.5 mil signing bonus.

Houston GM Ed Wade is quoted by the AP that Matsui will likely bat second behind Bourne who will leadoff and there’s some speculation according to mlbtraderumors.com that Chris Burke could now likely be packaged in a trade.

The Astros overpaid for this guy big time IMO.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

I think we have a candidate for the “Idiot Blogger of the Day Award”.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-Dude, calm down. I was giving you some friendly intercollegiate grief. Don’t get your Bama Boxers all bunched up. Hell yes, I will rant about the pollsters. I like doing it. Why not? There sure isn’t a damn thing else going on right now. Maybe you would prefer we talk about every center field possibility that we haven’t already brought up-Oh wait. There are no more we haven’t beaten into the ground.

The only thing I might possibly give Richt grief for was letting his defensive guy get to the point where we had to play all freshmen on the offensive line. Why didn’t we do a bit of draft research so that wasn’t necessary? Like last year or the year before? Like I said, as far as motivation, they have an inordinate number of freshmen and redshirt freshmen on the starting team, They have had injuries to their other two running backs to contend with. By all rights, we should have been a four loss team this season, given our inexperience. They actually played well above themselves. Right now, though, I could make an excellent argument that the Dawgs are the best (hottest) team in the nation. THAT is what should matter.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

Slick AD-That’s two successive totally idiotic posts. Believe me-you don’t even need any more to prove to us you’re a complete moron.

By bruce

December 2, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

Dave, Nice opening article from Nashville… Do you think any other teams have their top two off-season objectives accomplished already? Pretty fine accomplishment. Is it possible that Willie Aybar is learning SS in winter ball to be even more valuable as a backup? Thanks, Bruce

By ppaddy123

December 2, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

Steve, Lew, Braveheart and anyone else involved in this National Championship discussion! Everyone has made very valid points concerning their teams. But, at the end of the day, the whole thing has played out like a beauty contest; or better yet, a popularity contest. This year there is no dominant team in college football! So, instead of letting the teams play to find the champion, a select few, influential, members of the media (ESPN they posted their rankings 1st) will decide our National Title. The AP poll is made up of sports writers and they are influenced by what they hear. The USA Today poll is made of coaches that get most of their info from places like ESPN because they’re too busy to sit down and watch games during the season. The BCS will take these polls into consideration!

THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY DECIDE A NATIONAL CHAMPION IS ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD!!! The only way that will happen is when enough “influential people” decide that is in our best interest.

By SLICK AD

December 2, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

LEW YOU HAVE TO BE MORON FOR THINKING GEORGIA SHOULD BE PLAYING FOR THE BCS.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this

Slick, there’s only one idiot here, and it ain’t Lew.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this

Lew, I do agree with you that Georgia, right now, might be the best team and could beat anyone out there if Knowshon is given the ball 20+ times a game. They should be beasts next season with Knowshon and Stafford competing for a Heisman and Caleb is gonna be wicked good as well.

As for centerfield, no, I can’t take it anymore. I can’t take my Liberty Media rants anymore either or any of my other baseball babble. Heck, I think Random is dying so bad to talk about anything remotely baseball related that he is inventing a rather peculiar Mike Hampton argument.

By Braveheart

December 2, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

No, Klobber, I believe it is a candidate for douchebag of the day.

By ppaddy123

December 2, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

HEY SLICK AD you might be on to something there. Yeah, they’ll get rid of all the players of African decent, then go after all the Latin players….yeah, I’m seeing the logic to your argument……no wait…..then wouldn’t the talent pool be greatly diminished? I know there are still folks out there that would probably like to see the Braves field a team of “ALL WHITE BOYS” but they’re not on this blog!!!!! Just ask! Everyone I read on here(man woman or child) wants the Braves to put “the best team possible” together. I’m pretty sure that means turning every rock in search of talent. Man, it’s 2007, soon to be 2008, disliking a person because of their color or nationality is stupid. Disliking someone because they’re an A*******HOLE (quoted from George Carlin), well, that’s just natural!

By Greg in TN

December 2, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

This is what SI has…

Arkansas accepted a bid to the Cotton and will likely play Mizzou, Tennessee has accepted a bid to play Wisconsin in the Outback, Auburn will face Clemson in the Chick-Fil-A bowl in Atlanta, Mississippi State is in the Liberty Bowl against UCF. Everything else to shake out within the hour.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, my bad, dude. I always get those two awards mixed up.

By Greg in TN

December 2, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Oops, missed two. Sorry Braveheart, Alabama is playing Colorado in the Independence and Kentucky is playing FSU in the Music City.

By Efrim

December 2, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this

Padres near three year extension with Peavy. Got it from FoxSports.com. Kind of sucks. I was hoping he would end up in ATL at some point for the 2010 season. I wish Tex didn’t have Boras as an agent. Would be nice to sign him to an extension.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

Slick AD-Why would you want me to be a moron? Need company? Look elsewhere, idiot. See Efrim-I didn’t call you an idiot, but this guy definitely is.

Besides it looks like we get to defeat Hawaii for the only time this year. AS has been said many times before-You can’t spell Sugar without UGA.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

Efrim, what kind of money are they talking about?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 2, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

Georgia vs. Hawaii in the Sugar Bowl ? I can’t wait to see the point spread for this game. I’ll take the DAWGS by four touchdowns.

By bruce

December 2, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

Dave, Who do you think on the current 40 man roster would be next to go if someone had to be moved off to make room?

Were you surprised it was Cormier rather than Stockman? I thought maybe Cormier had an better upside if he never really recovered from his triceps/shoulder injury at the end of spring training and the off-season rest plus fresh start would be worth a try, while Stockman did not seem (my impression) to get it together at all last year (hamstring?). Thanks, Bruce

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this

Lew, I hope UGA has a great secondary….. Should be a good game though.

By Efrim

December 2, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

Chris

They said a three year extension for 17 million per year. Peavy is owed 6 million for 2008 and 8 million for 2009.

You got to figure they will restructure the next two seasons to get him more cash, right????

If this is true, then the Padres are winning this one. That means they basically have Peavy locked up for 65 million over the next five years. I know 2010-2012 will be for 51 million, but I mean with the way salaries are escalating….. Jeeeez. I really think Peavy could of received more here. Good for the Padres….I guess.

Zambrano signed a 5 year extension worth 91.5 million and in my opinion, Peavy is by far the better pitcher.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this

Ppaddy-Dude, I completely agree with you-I’m just a true blue Dawg. I never really expected the Dawgs to play for the Championship, but it was a slow day and it’s just fun to argue sometimes.

I still might break SEC ranks and cheer against LSU. I got tired of their coach’s Anti-Georgia rant all week. If he wanted an undisputed shot, his team shouldn’t have lost two overtime games to two teams he should have whipped up on down the stretch drive, They were knocked out of second AND first this year.

By BravesFanInRockies

December 2, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

BTW, folks, some talk here about Fuentes as a Brave …

Please, no!

I saw him pitch a lot the past two seasons and he’s trouble. Doesn’t throw that hard. Nibbles a lot and walks too many. His arm angle is such that his fastball and slider are largely on the same plane.

If Wren can sign Affeldt without breaking the bank, I’d sure take him over Fuentes. (Affeldt also pitched better down the stretch for the Rockies than Fuentes did.)

I would guess that Affeldt is too costly for the Braves, but I’d much rather have him than Fuentes …

By Mike in 'Fretta

December 2, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this

How does Kansas get to the Orange Bowl and Missouri get nothing? I hate the BCS it ruins college football. Georgia vs. Hawaii - who cares. That matchup just sucks what does it mean if Georgia wins? Why even play the game is meaningless. Georgia deserved a shot at the title.

By Lew

December 2, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

Gil-You may be right. Doesn’t Hawaii have one of the best scoring offenses in the nation-if not the best? But can they stop Georgia’s attack? I doubt it. I also doubt it will be a defensive masterpiece, by any means. I haven’t seen Hawaii’s schedule. Did they play anyone of significance?

By rich brave

December 2, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

Wow. What a read. Good night.

Except for Slick. The Braves intend to eliminate every, person of color on the roster which means there won’t be anyone left. Last time I checked in the mirror Caucasians had color too. We’re all some d*d color!! My momma taught me American Indians, Hispanics, and African-Americans are all genetically inferior to whites. Guess what. I didn’t buy it. Get over yourself man. Its America - its about the best players making up the best team. Will you be happier if Harris, Heyward, and Blanco play the outfield while Prado and Escobar play the infield with Brayan Pena catching Rafael Soriano or Gonzo. Oh I forgot, if their native language isn’t Swahili they don’t count. Dn I hate intolerance.

By ssiscribe

December 2, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

Top of the evening, denizens, as the Scribe settles back into my office/home after five days on the road.

Two days in Vegas. Three days in the North Georgia Mountains. Ah, a much-needed break that was so enjoyable, so relaxing, and now, so over.

DOB, wonder if we passed you guys Friday as we headed toward North Central part of the mountains, up 515 through Canton and Jasper and Ellijay toward Blue Ridge. Absolutely beautiful country and, you’re right, it’s hard to believe you’re only 90 miles from Atlanta.

Felt like I was a million miles away.

Sat around and watched the BCS madness unfold through the day yesterday and late into the night, while cooking steak and sipping good drinks and chillin’ in the hot tub. I would’ve loved to see UGA play for it all, but I think Ohio State and LSU is fair under the current set-up.

And for the record, the current set-up sucks, but it’s what we have right now. Maybe one day there will be a playoff.

Vegas was awesome as always. Sat at a bar one night playing black jack and talking baseball with a guy from Seattle who grew up a Pirates fan. He swears Bream was out in 1992 and is a big Bonds fan. Had some fun with that guy, but he was really nice and we shared some great baseball talk as I played up and down for several hours. Also talked with two kids from the University of Oregon, one of whom was a huge sports fan. Always love going to Vegas and meeting folks, talking sports and people watching.

Good to be back. Saw where Cormier got sent on; he wasn’t going to compete with Jurrjens, Jo Jo and Bennett (and I’m assuming Carlyle) for the final spot in the rotation. That, of course, assumes a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine and James.

As you can tell, I didn’t put down any jack on Hampton winning the Cy Young during my two-day enjoyment-fest in Sin City.

Time to run along and check out the work e-mail … this may take a while.

Enjoy your evening, denizens.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By brave4ever

December 2, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Bravefart:

You are right - Andruw would only be worth about $500k as a late inning defensive replacement.

By GSU-Lee

December 2, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, Heard you were comin to see us here at GSU sometime soon…

By soup du jour

December 2, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

Sooo….Kansas vs. Virginia Tech. I’m gonna try my hardest to get down there, because South Beach beats Blacksburg in winter. Are you going to the game, Dave? KU’s first big bowl game in a while!

I was actually hoping for a rematch with Georgia from last years Peach Bowl. That would’ve been fun, since I made it down to that one…Glennon’s a different player, not the same 4 TO guy like last year. But KU is a fun opponent. Lets Go Hokies!!

By Random

December 2, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

C’mon, chrisklob—

Listen to yourself:

Hampton has had better than average success as a hitter over the years — yeah, but so what? How many pennies out of the millions of dollars that the Braves are paying him are for his hitting? That’s right – ZERO.

You can bet that he wanted to take BP just as much as he needed to. Again, so what? Number one – he did not need to take BP at that point in the spring. He needed to focus on his arm – first things first. And we soon saw that even his arm wasn’t ready. Number two, wanting to do something does not mean that doing it isn’t stupid.

So, Dead wrong? I think not! Yes, pitchers do hit and field (and Hampton even swiped one of Maddux’ gold gloves, too, remember?), but that’s not what they’re paid to do, and that’s definitely not what Hampton should have been doing at the cost of delaying his arm rehabilitation. And that is what happened in both cases.

And I will come right out and say that imo Hampton taking BP last spring and going after that grounder this fall were definitely stupid decisions (if indeed decisions they both were. You may have a point about uncontrollable reflexes, though I don’t think so — he tried to stop the ball with his foot!!!)

Hampton realizing that he might have had a play … That ball came back at him faster than he could go through the thought process of “gosh, I think I can make a play on that ball, but golly gee, I’d sure hate to pull my hamstring if I slip and fall down”. Hampton should have “realized” even before his first pitch that no way in hell should he even be thinking about fielding any ball – and the decision, the “thought process” not to try to field should have already been made before he even stepped on the diamond. But you may be right — he may have been able to stop himself anyway.

No, he made a reaction to the ball coming back towards him. It’s what he’s trained to do since he was probably six years old. No, trying to stop the ball with your foot is what six year olds do before they receive any training.

As I said, it’s all probably in the eye of the beholder.

By Random

December 2, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

* Braveheart *—

Yes, yes – Ice And Idiot.

No, no – we’re not even. Though I’ve belted you and flayed you, By the livin’ Gawd that made you, You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

We could discuss “small ball”, or maybe “clutch hitting”. That should stir things up.

By fastasballs

December 2, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

What a crazy CFB season! DOB Are you thinking about going to Miami for the KU/VT game? Should be a good game, VT winning of course, lol.

I’m soooooo sick of OSU & LSU. Isn’t it funny how LSU & Oklahoma jump almost everyone in the polls?

VT finished up 3rd in the BCS, 1st in the computer rankings, but in the end the 41 point loss to LSU killed their chances of playing OSU for the title. Too bad Tenn. couldn’t finish off LSU yesterday or things would have been different.

UGA, USC & VT had the strongest finishes of anyone. I think the UGA & Hawaii game will be interesting for the first half, then UGA will feed Moreno & win going away.

By Random

December 2, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

rich brave—

See what happens when you employ asterisks in your euphemisms?

You should stick wit @s, $s, !s, #s, etc, to avoid the inadvertent bolds or italics.

;-)

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Random, I have grown very weary of this ridiculous discussion regarding Hampton and his intellectual abilities. I am going to make one final statement regarding this matter and then that will be it. Frankly, I prefer to discuss college football and whether UGA got screwed or perhaps the endless possible uses of belly button lint. Either discussion has more merit than Hampton’s intelligence, or in your opinion, lack thereof.

And I will come right out and say that imo Hampton taking BP last spring and going after that grounder this fall were definitely stupid decisions

We are not arguing about whether those are stupid decisions. We are arguing whether Hampton is stupid.

From your 12.01 am post, which I believe may have been the first one on the subject, at least it was the first one that I responded to:

Is Hampton simply just st#pid?

There is a world of difference between saying that someone is stupid and them making a stupid decision.

Good day sir.

By Robert S

December 2, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

Now, a small diversion from the discussion of the intellectual prowess of Mike Hampton. Ahem.

DOB, I read a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article that reports the Pirates may decide to trade Xavier Nady. Now granted, Nady only played 11 games in CF last season (the majority in RF), but do you think he might be a cheap option for the Braves in CF? He’s cheap (he’s arbitration eligible, but he probably won’t make any more than Coco Crisp), and has some pop in his bat (.278, 20HR, 72RBI in ‘07). And the Braves won’t have to give up too much to get him.

What do you think?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

I am a little surprised at the Kansas, VaTech match up. As long as Kansas does not execute the on side kick, I think Tech will be okay. Va Tech is a much different team than the one that played LSU the second game of the season.

Lew The best way for UGA to beat Hawaii is to keep Colt Brennan on the bench. That kid is the real deal. I watched two of their games. The Dawgs should just pound it on the ground to eat up the clock. They should be favored but they better not that the Warriors for granted. Brennan can score from anywhere.

Rich Brave Amen brother….. Big week coming up for U of R. Tough assignment against App St in Boone. Would be hard enough playing them at home.

One night when the blog is slow I will tell everyone about one of the best basketball coaches no one has ever heard of, Dave Robbins of Virginia Union University.

By Random

December 2, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Lew, chrisklob, ppaddy123, rich brave—

Ice and idiot.

Let me stick up for SLICK AD in at least this aspect – he specifically mentioned “African Americans”, not any and all non-white or non-Caucasian American minorities “of color”. So don’t intentionally or unintentionally misinterpret his arguments, and then proceed to mockingly knock down the straw men you set up your own selves. Don’t put words in his mouth.

And don’t simply dismiss his arguments with ridicule or disdain – it’s not like he’s denying the Holocaust or averring the earth’s two-dimensionality. Either ignore him, or engage him. Look at the numbers like most (some?) of us do for other discussions.

I don’t think the Braves intentionally or systematically discriminate against African Americans, but I don’t say because I don’t know – I haven’t seen the numbers. What is the Braves track record of drafting African Americans vis a vis the other MLB teams in the first year draft? How many African Americans are in Braves management positions? Etc, etc.

(I’m less confident about the blamelessness of MLB owners in general in apparently forgoing (intentionally or not) African American scouting/recruitment in favor of foreign players. I’ve spent a few years overseas and have seen first-hand the enormous power that employers of foreign workers have, due to the employer being the sponsor of the worker’s visa – one word and they’re gone. Remember, these are the same guys who came up with the Reserve clause, who locked the players out, who were found guilty of collusion, etc. But I don’t know, so I’m not saying – just thinking aloud.)

By Steamboat

December 2, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Well, Willie Martinez needs to be checking his notes, and his D always makes me nervous… but I think of Hawaii a lot like when we played Boise St. in ‘05… they were supposed to give us fits, but we just pounded them, wore ‘em out.

June Jones really screwed up on ESPN, IMO, basically trashing Tim Tebow… and Richt called for a blackout for the Sugar Bowl.

As to Mike Hampton, the criticism of him getting hurt sounds to me like it’s from someone who’s never played competitive sports. You’re either playing the game, or your not. You can’t go to the mound (or the court, field, whatever) thinking about not getting hurt.

DOB, any chance the Braves would look at a guy like Mike Lamb (I think he’s a F/A) to cover 1B and 3B? A guy like that would free us up to trade Aybar and Thorman, and to keep Lillibridge as a backup to 2B/SS, and carry 5 OF. Not likely, I’m sure, but just a thought.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 2, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Going to stick my nose in this just to get whacked but can’t help myself. Mike Hampton getting hurt trying to make a play is just part of the game. He is a gamer and like Smoltz he is going to react to the play and think about it later.

It is what makes him what he is, a competitor. If he were not he could have forgone a lot of pain and called it a career. I like his make up and I truly hope he has a great year for the Braves in 2008.

By Random

December 2, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

chrisklob—

We are not arguing about whether those are stupid decisions.

You sure were (taking the negative, while I took the affirmative), or it sure seemed like it to me. That’s why I amended the terms of my argument.

Whatever — sorry to wear you out.

Later.

By Random

December 2, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville—

Thanks — I’ll take your answer and lock it in.

Thanks again.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

Random, regarding your 10.59, I’m not sure what you mean by You sure were (taking the negative, while I took the affirmative), or it sure seemed like it to me. If you define “negative” as disagreeing with your statement, then yes.

I don’t really think you have an argument and That’s why I amended the terms of my argument.

Are you just being an a***** for the sake of being an a*****? You need to figure out what you believe, and stick to it because, by your own admission, you haven’t so far.

Okay, now regarding your 10.46. Neither of us, nor anyone on this blog is privy to the inside workings of the Atlanta Braves think tank so NO ONE here can definitively say, one way or another, that the Braves franchise employs prejudice while making personnel decisions. But if the Braves thought they could win next year’s World Series with a team full of one-eyed, one armed, flying purple people eaters, you can bet your a* that they would do whatever they could to make it happen.

This is Slick’s post: The Braves really are getting rid of and trading their Black players from their club. I wonder how many AFRICAN AMERICAN BASEBALL PLAYERS THEY HAVE IN THE ORGANIZATION NOW !!!!

This is what you just said: he specifically mentioned “African Americans”, not any and all non-white or non-Caucasian American minorities “of color”

I’m not putting words in his mouth. I read exactly what he said. Evidently, you did NOT.

By bruce

December 2, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

Gill I watched Hampton’s inning on YouTube and was very impressed, he seemed to have lots of movement and the hockey goalie style kick-save attempt was pretty impressive… my guess is most pitchers would pull a hammy on that move. I like your assessment and hope the same for Hampton. thanks, Bruce

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

Checking in from the world’s largest hotel (if it’s not the largest, I don’t ever want to stay in the largest). The Opryland Hotel and Convention Center has over 3,000 rooms, I’m told — and I believe it after traipsing from one lobby registration area (closed for the night) to the other, at least a quarter-mile walk dragging my bags and computer, etc. Anyway, this is just a massive, sprawling hotel with towering atriums and indoor ponds and gardens and blah blah blah. Great place to visit, but not the best for working (hard to work a lobby here when there are about four lobbies to choose from, each about a quarter mile from the other).

But enough complaining. It’s a nice hotel, for sure. Massive, but nice. I prefer my massive hotels to be 80 stories vertical instead of spread out over a ranch-size parcel, but hey, you deal with the conditions. We’re ready for first pitch tomorrow, bright and early.

(But truth be told, I don’t think we’re gonna have nearly as many juicy Braves trade rumors as we’ve had in recent Winter Meetings, simply because they feel like they’ve already addressed their primary needs. But I hope for their sake they get a lefty here, because it might be tough to find a good one available after the meetings are over).

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Robert S, Nady is interesting. I’ll certainly check with people from both sides tomorrow on that one, see if there’s anything there at all with the Braves.

By TJ

December 2, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

and a more experienced CF DOB…and a backup shortstop too.

By chrisklob

December 2, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

TJ, what do think this is, your personal Santa wish list? :-)

By David O'Brien

December 2, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

Bruce, no, not really surprised it was Cormier instead of Stockman. Because only thing holding back Stockman is nagging hamstring and other injuries. He still throws in the upper-90s, and he’s still young enough to have a bright future.

Cormier is what he is. Look at the numbers.

Stockman would be snatched up in a hurry if Braves tried to get him through waivers. They probably want to give him at least one more chance this year, to get healthy and produce….

Someone should tell Slick that Brandon Jones is African-American; Andruw Jones, on the other hand, is from the Caribbean island of Curacao, with Dutch heritage.

By Random

December 3, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

chrisklob—

Good day sir, my a*, it seems. And I was all ready to go to bed.

To rehash: I asked if Hampton was st#pid, on the basis of him having done these two stupid things.

You took exception to the premise of my question – specifically, you argued that those two things really weren’t stupid.

And that’s what we’ve been arguing about all night.

When I said “You sure were [arguing about whether those are stupid decisions] (taking the negative, while I took the affirmative)”, by “taking the negative” I meant simply that you were arguing that they were not stupid decisions. That’s all.

How can we begin to discuss the initial question if we don’t even agree on its premises? No, I’m not trying to be an “a*”, not for any reason – I’ve been consistent all night long. I think it may just be a communication problem. My bad.

Gil in Mechanicsville satisfied me – I’m ready and willing to drop the whole line of inquiry. I hope you’re satisfied now as well.

By A-ville Ranger

December 3, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

It’s impressive how busy this site is in dec.I just dropped in to say offering Mahay arbitration was a very good move imo.As for Hampton’s latest booboo,is anybody at all surprised ? later all.

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I remember attending a conference at the Gaylord Palms outside of Orlando just after it opened. I knew I was in trouble when I received a map to my room at check-in. It’s laid out very similar to the Nashville hotel from what I’ve been told.

Enjoy your time in Music City!

Good to see scribe back safe and sound from Vegas, always good to see my good friend from the Low Country holding court as well as the blog’s Richmond correspondent, Gil.

Time for this denizen to hit the hay. Night folks.

By B

December 3, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

Robert- The X-Man Nady would be great. Can go get’em and hit the long ball. Please get another starter. I know they don’t think we need one but past history says we do. Its not easy getting a good player in July! we need to start the year winning and stop saying its still early. Those games count just as much as in Sept. Bobby keeps saying we have enough offense but ask Smoltz last year if we had enough. You don’t want to just get by you want to kick some a@@.

By B

December 3, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

Robert- The X-Man Nady would be great. Can go get’em and hit the long ball. Please get another starter. I know they don’t think we need one but past history says we do. Its not easy getting a good player in July! we need to start the year winning and stop saying its still early. Those games count just as much as in Sept. Bobby keeps saying we have enough offense but ask Smoltz last year if we had enough. You don’t want to just get by you want to kick some a@@.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

RANDOM:

My response…With no ** It was anger not disdain.

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

Random,

From your 10.59: that’s why I amended the terms of my argument.

From your 12.04: I’ve been consistent all night long.

Which one is it? Are you consistent in your argument or did you change it?

Also from your 12.04: “To rehash: I asked if Hampton was st#pid, on the basis of him having done these two stupid things.”

Once again, I will quote you from your 12.01 am post: “Is Hampton simply just st#pid?”

Your original post did NOT specifiy that it was based on “the basis of him having done these two stupd things.? It was a question as to his intelligence. If that was not what you meant, then you should be more specific in your posts, as most of us are.

As many times as you’ve come on this blog and corrected people on their use of certain vocabulary and punctuation, I would expect that you would be a little more careful in trying to correct people.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

I can understand why it might get just a little bit overshadowed today, but it was a big day for Big 12 hoops out in L.A.: Texas beat No. 1 UCLA at Pauley Pavilion, and KU beat No. 22 USC. OK, the latter wasn’t exactly shocking, but a good win nonetheless.

As for KU’s berth in the Orange Bowl, I’m thrilled for my boys. But Mizzou certainly has every reason to be upset, being left out of the big bowls after beating the Jayhawks just one week ago. That’s a very bitter pill to swallow for the Tigers. Clearly, it’s not fair.

And for all you Georgia fans who believe your team deserves to play for the BCS title based on how it’s played lately, I understand your argument. I don’t agree (simply put, LSU won the conference championship and has two losses like you, only theirs were both in triple-overtime), but do see your argument.

I’d counter that OU could also argue it’s deserving. Right now, they’d beat anybody if they played like they did yesterday, or have played in about four of their past five games.

They beat Missouri twice this season, beat Texas on a neutral field, destroyed Texas A&M 42-14, hammered Miami 51-13 (OK, turns out that Week 2 win wasn’t as impressive as it seemed then), and their only losses were by three at Colorado and by seven at Texas A&M.

Of course, my argument, and yours, and the ones for a few other teams, are exactly why the system stinks — because there are no right or wrong answers or arguments in a season like this, when, as someone pointed out earlier tonight, there simply are no overwhelmingly dominant teams.

But if I’m Mizzou today, I’m extremely upset.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

Greg in Tn: It’s actually quite a bit larger than the one in Orlando, which is also massive (I’ve been in that one, too. They have similar atriums, but this hotel has a lot more sections, which are as big as individual hotels, all connected.

By Random

December 3, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

chrisklob—

Please realize my 10:46 post re SLICK AD was not addressed solely to you. If portions of it seem not to apply to you, just assume they’re meant for one or more of the other addressees. (Easy does it, dude.)

As to your cite of SLICK AD’s post – in the context of his post “black” = “African American”. It did not include “Latin players”, “American Indians”, “Hispanics” – that paragraph of my post was directed more toward the contributions of ppaddy123 and rich brave. (You didn’t put words in his mouth — all you (and Lew) did was call him an idiot. Engage or ignore, why don’t you.)

Sure, sure, only the Shadow knows “the inside workings of the Atlanta Braves think tank”. But we do know, and can measure, the results of those “inside workings” – ie, what they do. Are the two questions I suggested, without you even knowing the answers, somehow offensive to you?

Whatever. Let’s not even get started on this one.

Later. Though I may not yet be eligible for early retirement, I do still sometimes retire early.

‘night.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

Well, no place can be all bad that offers a wake-up call with a greeting from George Jones (or one of several other country stars, though he’s the coolest on the list. No Cash on it. I’m gonna set my wakeup for the Possum calling at 7:30 a.m.

(Now that I think about it, imagine how ugly that would be, to have the real George Jones, in his imbibing prime, banging on your front door to wake you at 7:30 in the morning, him having stayed out all night and not slept? Holy…)

By joebrave

December 3, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this

Random,Why are you always,being such a PRICK??? what axe do you have to grind here???why don’t you do the world a favor,You worthless scumbitch,go to he11 go straight to he11,you sonsabitch MUTTS Fan!!!!

By cj

December 3, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this

I don’t trust judgement of the Braves brass when they say they feel “comfortable” with replacing a proven position player with someone cheaper, remember after they traded LaRoach last year and they said they were fine with that because they were “comfortable” with Thorman and we all know how that turned out though I am happy to have Tex, now they are using that same term, “comfortable” about the centerfield candidates. They probably should not have traded for Josh Anderson, he’s unproven, instead they should’ve traded for someone in which they knew what they were getting until Shafer is ready, though hopefully they still might. I honestly have no idea why they aren’t doing all they can to bring back Mahay, we haven’t had a good lefty in the bullpen since Chris Hammond and they let him walk after his great year and they have been plugging absolute slugs in there ever since. Unless they can bring in Jeremy Affeldt they should just have all righties in there until Gonzales is back, because there just isn’t anyone out there. I heard something about Trevor Miller who is terrible, has damn near a 5 era=slug. Mahay is right there for them. Big deal, they will get a sandwich pick for him, give me a break, the Braves upper management just can’t figure it out and it’s frustrating, four million a year for a reliable lefty isn’t too much, anyone they want to bring in cheap will turn out to be exactly what they get for the money, a slug.

By Bo

December 3, 2007 12:50 AM | Link to this

DOB, Man you want do. Have a good night.

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this

cj, from all accounts, the Braves issue with resigning Mahay is NOT the amount per year, but the number of years he is requesting. He’s 36 and wants a three or possibly four year deal. Who knows what he’ll be able to do in the last years of this contract.

By Lew

December 3, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

Random-Did it occur to you that I called him an idiot because his assertions were absurd in the extreme, just like those of Terence Moore? The racial barrier was broken decades ago and there has been no segregation in baseball since then. Just because the predominant majority of races and Nationalities OTHER than African American are greater in numbers, does nothing whatsoever to negate the racial diversity that MLB exhibits today. If some believe there should be more African Americans playing baseball, then by all means, provide ways for them to play. That is rational and logical. However, to suggest that they are being discriminated against in favor of Japanese, Australian, Canadian, Columbian, Cuban, Korean, or Mexican players is just ridiculous. Find an African American good enough to play in the bigs and one that has the interest, and I can pretty much guarantee you that a ML team will sign him.

By TexasBrave

December 3, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this

This just came in over the news wire.

The NCAA has met in an executive committee and has determined that since there are a lot of deserving teams that the National Champions will be determined by a playoff. Automatic bids go to all conference champs with five at large bids for teams with the highest BCS rankings that are not conference champs. Seeds will be determined by the BCS rankings and the current Bowls will be assigned games. The bracket is as follows:

(1)Ohio St. (16)Florida Atlantic

(8)Kansas (9)West Virgina

(5)Georgia (12)Florida

(13)BYU (4)Oklahoma

(3)Virgina Tech (14)U Cent. Fla.

(6)Missouri (11)Arizona St.

(7)USC (10)Hawaii

(15)Cent. Michigan (2)LSU

May the best team win!!

By TexasBrave

December 3, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

DOB - Thanks for the props on my Sooners. However, I myself cannot say that they are anymore deserving than Ohio St., LSU, Georgia or any of the other 2 lose teams except for Missouri. Even more reason for a playoff.

Another thing, how did your Jayhawks get to play in a better bowl game than Missouri? Not only did Mizzu beat them head to head, win the Big 12 North, but they are also ranked higher in the BCS than Kansas.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this

TexasBrave, I don’t know. As I said above, if I were Mizzou, I’d be extremely upset. Getting thrashed as they did by OU in the Big 12 title game obviously hurt the Tigers more than if they’d not played in the game at all.

Doesn’t seem fair, for Mizzou. But as a KU alum, I’m not going to complain.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 3, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this

Phil Stockman is 6-5 , he is a right handed relief pitcher who throws in the 96-97 MPH range. Sure , the guy throws gas. However , you have to wonder about a pitcher who has been kicked around the minors for nine seasons and is with his second organization.

By **PatioDaddio**

December 3, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this

Bedard is the type of pitcher you make changes for. Wren said he would consider trading for a #1 pitcher. Bedard could help level the lefthanded hitting NL East playing field by alot. Frank Wren, you could overwhelm the Orioles with a package of players that will never see a day in Atlanta.

The Washington Post reports that Erik Bedard has informed the Orioles he has no interest in signing an extension to stay in Baltimore.

It’s hard to blame Bedard for not wanting to commit to an organization that’s been run so poorly for so long, though there is the potential for things to turn around now with Andy MacPhail in control. If Bedard is taking this kind of stance, the Orioles might as well trade him now. The Mets and Dodgers have engaged in serious talks with the club, and the loser of the Johan Santana sweepstakes also figures to get involved.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

December 3, 2007 2:47 AM | Link to this

I just have one more thing to say about the low ball effort of the Yankees concerning Johan Santana. Josh Beckett is 27 , Matsuzaka is 26 , Lester is 23.

Add the 28 year old Santana to that mix and the Yankees can look forward to being a wild card team for the next 6-8 years.

Boston will have a dynasty capable of winning not only their division , they will be the favorite to win the World Series again and again and again…etc.

By Mark

December 3, 2007 2:54 AM | Link to this

There are some teams that have expressed some interest in Matt Diaz, who has hit .333 while platooning in left field with the Braves over the past two seasons. While Wren isn’t shopping Diaz, he is a piece that other teams could deem desirable enough to formulate a trade that would help the Braves fill one of their needs.

BOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Nady for center field? Yah!!!!

By Random

December 3, 2007 5:28 AM | Link to this

chrisklob—

Oh, come on — are you being willfully obtuse?

From my original post:

“Is Hampton simply just st#pid? “Coming back from TJ surgery and over a year of rehab, how does he injure himself? Taking batting practice!!! “After another bout of surgery and rehab, how does he injure himself? Going after a grounder!!!”

The recent “rehash”: “I asked if Hampton was st#pid, on the basis of him having done these two stupid things.”

“Rehash” means “to summarize briefly” — what don’t you get here?

And if you can’t see the difference between amending the terms (ie, the language) of one’s argument and changing the argument itself, I simply cannot help you.

I’d suggest that you forget about it.

By jon

December 3, 2007 6:59 AM | Link to this

DOB, know there is on way for you to tell for sure or you would have already. But, in your opinion, what lefties are out there the Braves may be looking at??? Haven’t heard any names so I didn’t know who they may be targeting or at least, rumored to be targeting……Another thing, what would you think about Dave Roberts being a stopgap in Center???? Seems like the Braves kind of player…professional, gritty, nothing exceptional just gets the job done!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 3, 2007 7:38 AM | Link to this

Morning all, It’s a new day so time to put yesterday’s fights behind us.

I was a little disappointed with my last trip to Nashville.It seems that they were closed the particular day we stopped by. Not to take anything away from Music City, it was just easier to move on to Gatlinburg.

Still, I love Tennessee, definatly one of the friendliest and most beautiful places to be.

Would love to be able to hang around the bars in Nashville the next few days just to be able to hear about a 1000 baseball stories being told. Some of them might even be true…:-)))

Music City isn’t what it use to be however with so many country music stars having taken up residence in Branson Mo.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this

GIL:

Morning Gil. Sorry for the rant last night. I think the pressure of health is getting to me.

Met an assistant coach of Dave’s who’s married into one son-in-law’s family. Spent one interesting evening talking at a party about prospects. I heard they were after the entire Byerson family. Looks like they succeeded.

By Random

December 3, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

And good morning to you, joebrave * — how are you? *:-) Seems like I can get under your skin without even trying. 8-0 That’s pretty cool, huh?

One of these days we’ll see what happens when once again I do try. ;-> In the meantime, why don’t you just regale us all again about how the Braves traded Brian Asselstine to the Blue Jays for John Smoltz (or something like that) — I never get tired of that one. It really cracks me up.

Take care, buddy.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 3, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Morning Rich, No complaints from me, I suspect we were both raised in similar environments. I had one Great grandmother who’s was about as Blue Blood as they come. I thank the Lord that he gave me a brain to think on my own and see people for who they are and not what others want us to believe them to be.

I have little patience with snobs, raciest of any color and bigots. I am a big believer that a person should be judged by his character and his deeds.

I never really understood why Dave wasn’t offered the head coaching position at either UR or VCU but then again maybe he was and just never told anyone.

By Shaun

December 3, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

For the wishful thinkers in the group, the Padres are reportedly about to sign Jake Peavy to an extension.

By TommyP

December 3, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Xavier Nady?

C’mon, guys. He’s not a CF. He may have PLAYED there a few times but he’s not a CF.

If they contact Pittsburgh, it will be with McLouth in mind, not Nady.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

SHAUN:

Oh! I was so hoping that the Braves would get Peavy. Thanks for dashing my dreams. Where’s a dull knife when you need one!! Gimme a break.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

RANDOM:

Wasn’t it Doyle Alexander for Smoltz? Or maybe both?

By Savannah Guy

December 3, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Let me stick up for SLICK AD in at least this aspect – he specifically mentioned “African Americans”, not any and all non-white or non-Caucasian American minorities “of color”.

The hour was late. Random was bored. Batting practice ensued with the tee ball post.

I haven’t seen the numbers. What is the Braves track record of drafting African Americans vis a vis the other MLB teams in the first year draft?

Now I get it. It’s all become clear now. Random is actually Shaun’s social activist brother. Mystery solved… but this could go on for days. Maybe Shaun will intervene and add a Pythagorean theorem context to it all.

Random: But seriously, you know this is not a “black and white” issue. It’s an issue of the diminished baseball talent pool resulting from a lack of interest in baseball with certain minorities. Check football and basketball pools and percentages. This is just not controversial unless we make it so by ignoring reality. If it were true, everyone here would be protesting the unfairness. I’d be right there with you. ~ On Mike Hampton: his recent injury resulted from an athlete doing what every good athlete does…compete. It was an accident that was neither stupid nor careless. Stuff happens.

On the other hand, I thought last years injury in the batting cage was an unwise move by Cox and Hampton. Not stupid…just unwise and perhaps careless. No sense in letting an athlete fresh from long rehab swing for the fences, especially in practice. As it turned out it didn’t change the outcome of his season with the arm problem he developed, but it was pretty bleak when he pulled the oblique (just couldn’t resist) : )

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal said the Braves are “big fans” of Crisp and have a passing interest in Corey Patterson. I think Crisp would do the job. My fear is that the Red Sox will ask more for him than what he is really worth.

As far as Corey Patterson goes, I am not a huge fan of his but for what the Braves are needing he would fit the bill. The problem is his agent is Boras and he is going to seek a three year deal at $ 8 or $9 mil a year. If the Braves could get him for one year, I think its something to consider.

I still say Melkey Cabrera should be a target of the Braves. The Yanks are likely going to trade him to either solve the surplus of outfielders they have or to go after Andruw or Rowand.

You heard it here first. Don’t be surprised if the Yanks don’t wind up making a push for Andruw especially if Boras drops his demands to a 3 or 4 year contract.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

GIL:

Dave came out and said he would consider the Richmond job if it was offered to him. Jeez, I wish we had him now. You know after Beilein left, the program has really gone downhill. Robbins would have been like Dick Tarrant-tough-minded and a real winner. Like Anthony Grant. By the way, I spoke to Tarrant at a Dr’s. office a couple of months ago. Just in passing while waiting. The guy looks like he could beat your brains out on the hand-ball court.

I call our current head coach coach “T” because he cost the ballclub at least three wins with inappropriate technicals at the most inopportune times. He must get an adrenaline rush under pressure and lose his equanimity. The kid’s still wet behind the ears, but I’m finally beginning to see signs of his version of the Princeton offense becoming effective. Sure wish Robbins was running Chuck Noe’s ‘mongoose’ though. Now there’s a coach everyone should be aware of. His influence on others was pervasive throughout the country.

By Shaun

December 3, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Savannah Guy, I heard a black author/journalist on the radio talking about blacks in baseball. His thought was that baseball was never really a sport that drew black Americans and that this idea that it once was is just false.

His idea was that the Negro Leagues were popular because it was a social gathering rather than because people were interested in baseball.

When baseball was integrated, there was the novelty that drew black fans, but eventually the novelty wore off.

Don’t know how much of this is true, but it seems to make sense.

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Shaun

For the wishful thinkers in the group, the Padres are reportedly about to sign Jake Peavy to an extension.

I am still pretty upset about it. I was really hoping the Braves had a shot to trade for him, or sign him after 2009. Oh well. There is always Erik Bedard or Brad Penny.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

SAVANNAH GUY:

Yeah man. I’m for quotas for ‘African-Americans.’ That way both of my grandson’s will have a better opportunity to play even if their talent level is a little substandard. After all they’re true blood “African-American” well, half at least.

Seriously, you said what I deleted last night. My rant was too long even for my fevered brain. Sorry for the outburst. Your points however are spot on.

Afterward, I wondered if I was responding to a troll. But since MLB was having a meeting that TMo responded to with a blog, I felt something had to be said on the point. You’re just got to challange that type of thinking from any perspective.

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

SG, do yourself a favor and don’t try to argue with Random. It’s not worth the time and aggravation.

By Lew

December 3, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

The issue is strictly economic. If a player goes into football or basketball and are good enough, they can usually get a college scholarship-covering their education and living expenses. Then after two or three years, if they perform, they can sign with the NFL or NBA for sizeable $$$$$, or if they take it seriously, have an education which will boost earning potential for those not going to the bigs. If they go into baseball, in all likelihood they will toil in the minors for three to six years, then go through another six years until they get their mega $$$$ through free agency. This is not an equitable situation financially. Look at the difference-three or four years and megamoney, or up to twelve years before the rewards kick in. Considering the injury possibilities, there is much more chance of cashing in with Hoops or football. It’s the money, pure and simple.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

O’B - wan:

Fearless leader wave your light-saber. We had a blog waiting. We’re drowning here. Any news that’s news?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Here’s a pitcher we have all seemed to forgotten about and I just got reminded of him by reading mlbtraderumors.com. Rich Harden. I find him to be very intriguing. Of course, he is injury prone which makes him a risk. You have to wonder what the A’s would want for him. Fact is, when he is healthy he is ever bit as good as Haren or Blanton.

What do you guys think about him? Would Harden be worth acquring given the A’s don’t ask for a king’s ransom.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

LEW:

ABSOLUTELY. From the mouths of babes. My ten year old said exacly that to me last month. He likes baseball but football’s where the money is.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

No news at all yet, folks. Everybody’s still picking up credentials, getting set up in this massive media workroom, which is actually a big conference hall type place, holds hundreds and hundreds of ink- and chili-stained wretches.

If you’re dying to know, I can give you the instant news from the veterans committee HOF voting announcement, which is happening right this moment on the stage up front of the hall.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Tommy P, just hope they don’t contact the Pirates about Duffy….

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

ROBERT:

I’m for getting a pitcher that ISN’T hurt and let his bleed on our watch.

By Savannah Guy

December 3, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

keyboard malfunction should be fixed as soon as i get off my duff and get to the apple store. shift keys are nice to have.

shaun…good points. somewhere there must be a qual/quant study that would be interesting and not controversial. if it was a topic horse that hadn’t been severely beaten already i might be inclined to research it…but it has so i’m not.

yanks say last day for santana negotiation. sure. right.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Dick Williams, Bowie Kuhn and Walter O’Malley were the most prominent names among the five voted in.

Some will probably be interested to note that Marvin Miller did not come close to having enough votes.

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

DOB

Yes. Very true on Duffy. If they contact Pittsburgh, I hope it is for Marte or Mclouth. Duffy isn’t much better than the options be already have……

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

DAVE:

Thanks for the word. Keep it coming.

By AdirondackDave

December 3, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Shaun — I confess to being one of those Peavy wishful-thinkers. However, signing him to a longterm contract doesn’t necessarily diminish the likelihood of his getting traded. Unless he has a no-trade contract, it just increases his trade price and value to teams like Atlanta and others.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Lew, you are 100% right. Its all about the money. If MLB teams start signing 19 and 20 year olds to contracts guaranteeing them $4 to $10 mil a year you would see more blacks in baseball. Its that simple. Think about it. The average baseball player doesn’t hit his “pay day” until he is 26 or 27 years old. In the NFL and NBA that payday comes between the ages of 20 and 22. It isn’t really difficult to figure out.

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Adirondack Dave

There is believed to be a no trade clause within the contract. At least that is what the reports indicate.

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I think that guy’s explanation sounded like an oversimplification of matters.

When baseball was integrated, the NBA was not yet even in existence and the NFL was not as legitimate at all as compared to baseball and would not reach the widespread appeal it has reached because of television until about 11 years later because of Unitas and the Game of the Century at Yankee Stadium in 1958 against the Giants.

The NFL had integration issues itself. College ball had terrible integration issues as well.

It was hard for black athletes to break into professional football and basketball at the time when the traditional route to make it in those leagues was to play college ball. If the black athletes were not allowed into colleges, they could not be given the opportunity to get themselves on a professional ballfield.

And even if they could play college ball, professional football and basketball were not as profitable, appealing, and legitimate as baseball for a black athlete to pursue as a professional.

At that time, there were really only two ways for black athletes to get out of the ghetto: baseball and boxing. You don’t see as many black boxers anymore either. Why? Because, for example, the guy who might have become the heavyweight champ of the world has been playing middle linebacker for the Ravens for the last decade.

Jackie Robinson was just as good at other sports like football, basketball, track as he was at baseball when he played at UCLA. Some say baseball was his least favorite sport but it was the only sport at the time he could realistically profit from. If Jackie Robinson were around today, he might be playing football or basketball instead.

With increased diversity in all college and professional sports, there is an increased diversification of collegiate and professional opportunities for black athletes to take advantage of their skills in other sports besides just baseball.

Think about how many of the great black baseball players from 50 years ago were from Georgia and Alabama and other Southern states where they were not permitted to play college ball because of segregation.

If college sports and professional sports were then what they are now, Jackie Robinson might have been the QB or point guard at Georgia and Hank Aaron and Willie Mays may have been the QBs and point guards at Alabama before becoming professional football and basketball players instead of baseball players. Unfortunately, neither Alabama nor Georgia were integrated back then.

And there are all of those other socioeconomic and cultural factors at work. Baseball as a whole was a more popular American sport at the time for all races because there was no other game in town …. the NBA did not exist, the NFL was in its infancy stage. There were many more minor league teams and semi pro baseball teams around.

And if you look at demographics, sad to say, but so many blacks live at, below, or just above the poverty line. Baseball is just a much more expensive sport to play as a child than football and basketball and also takes many more people to get a pickup game going.

Basketballs and footballs are cheap and you can play basketball if you are by yourself and play football if you have two or three guys with you.

Baseball is a highly skilled sport compared to the other two and often requires hours and hours and years of repetition to learn how to pitch, throw, field, or hit properly as you get older.

If you don’t have the money because you are poor, you can’t afford the equipment and can’t afford to travel like you have to as you get older on some of those summer league baseball AAU all star travel teams. Thus, the process of exclusion starts at a young age - especially when they get to be teenagers - because of money and not so much because of discrimination.

Plus, baseball is a game taught to boys by their fathers for the most part. Unfortunately, demographically speaking, too many black children are growing up without fathers who take their sons out to play catch from the time they are two years old.

Also, more and more children are being told to focus upon one or two sports at the most. If you are a top basketball player of the type who will make it to the NBA someday, you most likely were noticed to have that skill when you were 12 years old and have been playing basketball 24/7/365 on numerous travel teams where all the travel and equipment and such is covered by Nike, Adidas, and so on. If they played youth baseball on the other hand there is no corporate sponsorship and mom and dad would have to pay for them to play - which is often money mom and pops don’t have or barely have.

Also, you have to consider that alot of white kids are figuring they have no shot of making it in basketball or football, so they are focusing their energies and time to baseball. With less whites in other sports, it means a tremendous increase in the white talent pool for baseball. This results in blacks who are 12% of the overall American population becoming only 8% of the baseball population because whites are more aggressively pursuing baseball as their one true legit road to becoming a professional athlete.

By TommyP

December 3, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

DOB: No way Wren will contact about Duffy. Just not a Schuerholz/Wren-type move. Wren seems to be very much aligned with the way JS thinks. I like that. Not sure if you ask Wren about certain players or not but if you do, McLouth HAS to be an option due to $, low cost to acquire, and production.

I wish ESPN would do a 30 minute or 60 minute daily show on the winter meetings like they do for college football preseason.

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

or up to twelve years before the rewards kick in

This is true Lew, but I don’t know of many 6 year minor leaguers that make the major league roster, perform well enough to last 6 and then sign a massive contract.
Typically the minor leaguer, if good, is up in the majors after 3 or 4 years. Sometimes less. And if, when they make it to the majors, they perform well, they’ll be offered a large contract early in hopes of skipping arbitration (much like McCann). The arbitration note alone almost assures a good player is going to get a good portion of the pie even before FA. Teixeira is looking at 12-13 million and he isn’t a free agent yet. The scenario you mapped out is the best of the worst case.

And this doesn’t even cover the other option a baseball player has, going to college on a scholarship and improving skills a-la Troy Tulowiski. A college player typically makes it to the MLB roster faster than a high schooler. And then there are signing bonuses as well.

I think it’s pretty competitive. For the most part it’s about 3 or 4 years before you are in the top levels earning cash. In Baseball the ceiling is much much higher than other sports and the longevity of play is greater, but, as you said, the rise in pay is slower. Though the rate at which pay increases is directly proportional to the skill/marketability of the player.

By soup du jour

December 3, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Efrim: Or Snell.

By DAP

December 3, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Hey everyone. I have not posted in awhile, but i have been here keeping up with everyone. i just have a few comments on the BCS situation.

Georgia got screwed. period.

ohio state doesnt play and gets bumped up two spots to #1. georgia doesnt play and gets bumped BACK to #5. thats stupid.

the thought that conference chapions should play of the title doesnt hold water. had tennessee won, should they have played for the national title? no! everyone knew georgia wasnt going to the SEC championship game, but they were still ranked ahead of both teams that were, because they were better! (by the way, forget about the loss to tennessee, we should have never lost to South Carolina, and this situation would have been averted)

so georgia got screwed, plain and simple. but you know who else got screwed?

VA tech. they won thier conference to, over a #11 ranked team. thier two losses this season were against #1 LSU and #2 BC, while LSU lost to much lesser teams. to me, they erase thier loss to BC by beating them in the chamionship game, and even though they were killed by LSU, LSU got beat by two teams that a national chamionship team has no business losing to.

you could make an argument oklahoma got screwed. they beat the #1 team twice.

weve already mentioned georgia. totally screwed.

kansas definetly got screwed. only 1 loss, and they get bumped 3 spots couse they didnt play! ohio state doesnt play and goes UP 2 spots!! ohio state is a good team with good players, but they have a schedule just as weak as kansas, and some how they get the championship game!!

my point is, a bunch of teams got screwed in this thing, and its clear that this is something that should be earned on the field!!

if you are a fan of any of the top ten teams, you can probably make a pretty good argument of why they should play for the title. it just makes me so mad, because i feel like georgia is the best team! (of course i do)

anyways, i know many of you share my feelings of frusteration, and it is good to get this off my chest a little bit. ill blog about the braves in a bit! :-)

By Random

December 3, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

rich brave—

Yes, and it was the Tigers, not the Blue Jays.

I was just giving joe brave a gentle tweak — he should know what I mean. (Ref his 1 Nov rants in response to one of my own mental miscues.) (Yes, chrisklob, I do make mistakes, and what’s more, I ‘fess up to them.)

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

I think Crisp would do the job. My fear is that the Red Sox will ask more for him than what he is really worth.

Robert (JIB), they will almost certainly ask for too much. And now that Elsbury is rumored to be in a trade for Santana, the price for Coco has gone way up. On top of that, Coco actually had a worse season at the plate than AJ in 2007; AJ 88 OPS+, Coco 83 OPS+. League average would be wonderful at this point but it appears the Braves are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
So in that spirit, perhaps we can get Pierre from the Dodgers? He had a 75 OPS+ to go along with no arm and a horrid sense of tracking fly balls. Maybe the Dodgers will send enough money along to cover the entire salary, along with a shipment of Kleenex so we members of the Braves nation will have ample tissue to wipe away the tears of agony that inevitably come with Pierre in center.

By Lew

December 3, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

RJIB-Yes. They just signed that young pitcher Teheran at age 16. Different economics for different locales, I suppose.

By DAP

December 3, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

random i think on hamptons injury video, we saw what the guy is all about. the man wants to win. period. he is a great player because of that, i think. he will give it his all whatever he is doing, and that should be admired in a person, no matter what they do. i do wish he wouldnt get hurt, though.

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Soup

Snell would cost too much and the Braves are set with their starting pitching.

I really think it is imperative that they get a solid lefty though. A lot of our right handed middle relievers are great against righties, but really struggle to get lefties out consistently. Especially Yates.

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

“Georgia got screwed”

I believe it was Joe Brave who came on this blog and posted a profanity ladden rant on how upset he was with Vols fans because a couple mentioned that the system makes no sense. Now I see all these Georgia fans complaining that the system makes no sense. What else is new? Oh wait, I know something new… Tennessee won the SEC East. I know yall love the Vols ever so much. I’ve never seen so much support for them outside of the state lines. It’s always appreciated.

Ha! I don’t even follow college football all that much. College baseball though, that’s a whole ‘nother story.

By DAP

December 3, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

there is just to much incongruence in the way they choose the teams. it doesnt make sense at all. why ohio state and not kansas? why LSU and not VA Tech? why does ohio state move up and geogia and kansas move back? wh7 does LSU who won thier conference jump over VA Tech and stay ahead of Okalhoma who both won thier conferences?

it just isnt logical…and is SOOOOO frusterating!

By Bo

December 3, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB- Robert jis, I agree on Crisp but he may go to Twins. No! to Cory Patterson and He!! yes to Melkey Cabrera. X-man Nady yes and he can play cf. Keep the news coming DOB.

By DAP

December 3, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

something is goin on with the ‘stros. ive been thinking about them getting michael bourne and trading josh anderson to us. arent they very similar players? why trade anderson who has actually played better than bourne in the mahors when thier tools are very similar…speed, hits for average, plays outfield….

i think the astros were trying to get a black player that can start for them so they could get rid of thier rap for not having any black players. after the braves brought up harris last year, werent the ‘stros the only holdouts on that?

maybe it was a racially motivated trade. if so, its a shame.

By Savannah Guy

December 3, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

braveheart…good points on, you know…that issue.

were you by any chance feeling a bit froggy this morning?

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

something is goin on with the ‘stros

It’s possible that neither race nor coherent reasoning is behind this. I believe Mr. Ed Wade is in charge now.

By nOLIE

December 3, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

This is true Lew, but I don’t know of many 6 year minor leaguers that make the major league roster, perform well enough to last 6 and then sign a massive contract. Typically the minor leaguer, if good, is up in the majors after 3 or 4 years. Sometimes less. And if, when they make it to the majors, they perform well, they’ll be offered a large contract early in hopes of skipping arbitration (much like McCann). The arbitration note alone almost assures a good player is going to get a good portion of the pie even before FA. Teixeira is looking at 12-13 million and he isn’t a free agent yet. The scenario you mapped out is the best of the worst case.TP

another reason is the huge percentages of players who fail b4 the ever get to the majors and the extremely low minor league salaries compared to what a player could be making in his early 20s in another sport. the vast majority of players who are drafted never receive a check worth the effort. plus of course it isn’t really culturally ‘cool’ anymore nor are there as many urban opportunities to play

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

If Nady can play decently defensively in CF, then the Braves would be crazy not to go after him. The guy can hit and would make an already dangerous offense just that more dangerous. He has played well everywhere he’s been (Padres, Mets, Pirates). I think he would be a great addition.

By Anders

December 3, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Pretty ironic that MLB names their HOF inductees at the Wintre Meetings but continues to ignore Marvin Miller. If it wasn’t for Marvin Miller they could have the Winter Meetings in a phone booth because if the Players couldn’t change teams so readily there wouldn’t be any media at the meetings. I don’t think they’ve set up that huge media rotunda to report the spring training schedules to America.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Just had a longtime Chicago baseball writer tell me that the White Sox won’t deal with Boras unless they absolutely have to, or unless he comes to them with a reasonable offer (don’t laugh, it could happen. Well, maybe).

The guy told me, “Say, if Boras came to them with something simple and reasonable, like three years and $21 million.”

And I about dropped my coffee cup.

By 22oz

December 3, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Thanks for keeping us up-to-date DOB. I’d sure hate to waiting on Chop Chick to get my updates!

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

TommyP, exactly what I told the Pittsburgh writer: “Duffy just does not seem at all like a Braves-type player.”

There was speculation that Duffy wasn’t hurt as bad as he indicated at end of year, that he shut himself down.

By Renegator

December 3, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

DOB:

How many other beat writers are there reporting back to their loyal fans? Are there a lot or are you one of only a few?

By TommyP

December 3, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Nady is not a CF. The Braves (think it was Cox) already said that whomever they acquire will have to be able to play the position very well defensively. That’s the priority.

Nady is a corner outfielder, not a starting CF.

By TNRON

December 3, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

TommyP: ESPN is doing a live show at 5:00 pm M-W “Live at the Winter Meetings”. RJIB: I womder if we could do an expanded trade with Pitt to include Marte the LH reliever(I hope I got the name right).I think Nady would be a good addition and as far as defense you could always do a late inning sub.It also would provide depth for trading Diaz,if the right deal came along,and insurance at 1B.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

DAP, I hope you aren’t really serious. I suppose the trade could have been racially motivated. But, I think it probably had more to do with the fact that the Astros feel Bourne has more upside than Anderson or simply fit better into their long range plans.

By TommyP

December 3, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

See if a McLouth deal has any legs. I’ve been touting him on this blog since September before anyone. He makes the most sense for the Braves.

By the way, sorry for eavesdropping on your conversation with the Pittsburgh writer. :)

By rainman

December 3, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Reds are at the meetings looking for starting pitching and are willing t0 deal Hamilton. I love chuck james but this guy is a beast and if he stays healthy and clean look out. He can play a nice center and then move to left when jordan is ready. I love having a gut of starters but this makes us a complete team and a monster lineup. just wanted to see what you guys and dave thought about this doubt it will happen because it would make me to happy and after the bcs thing with my dawgs nothing seems to go right anymore.

By rainman

December 3, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

I take that back my three year old little girl is indeed perfect.

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Is it outrageous to say that going to a team like Kansas City might spell, more or less, the end of Andruw Jones’ career?

I know this might seem like a preposterous statement…but I’ve been thinking about it a lot. If Andruw was having trouble motivating himself to be proactive about his game and adjusting it so that he succeeded on a SUCCESSFUL team in a playoff race, what might that translate into on a bottom-dwelling team like the Nats or the Royals?

Seems to me like Andruw might be even more prone to just walk up there hacking away, looking for those pitches right down the middle.

And, if this is the case, does that scare away would-be suitors at the winter meetings?

If I’m a GM, I go NOWHERE NEAR Andruw in the offseason. If he couldn’t find a way to adjust and succeed on a Braves team that was in the playoff hunt and needed him, I can only imagine what he’d do on a team that out of the playff race twenty games into the season.

By DAP

December 3, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Robert(JIB)

i hope youre right. i was serious, but just thinking out loud, really.

Tennpaul

It’s possible that neither race nor coherent reasoning is behind this.

i think youre right. astros management seems really bad to me.

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

cuz, it ain’t easy being green.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Renegator, still not many blogging throughout the day, but I’ve noticed more and more all the time.

Gonna do a little radio with Charlie Steiner at 1:45 East Coast time. Might end up being about college football, since that dominated the conversation we just had, him and four other baseball writers.

By Saltywoody

December 3, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

Also, does anyone else think the Santana/Haren comparisons are a little off base?

We’ve all talked about both of them on here a lot, especially Haren as he relates (or doesn’t) to the Braves plans.

It seems crazy to me that people are essentially calling Haren the poor man’s Santana. While that might be a fair assessment in salary terms (since Santana will probably be a 20 million a year pitcher shortly and Haren will remain a 5 million a year pitcher for the next couple seasons), I would be going hard after Haren if I had the minor league resources.

The guy’s a year younger than Santana, his ERA and W/L record were better than Johan’s last year (and on a team that was not quite as good as Johan’s Twins), and you’re probably saving yourself 15 million a year if you have Haren as your ace instead of Johan.

Granted, Santana’s performed as an ace for years now and is probably one of, if not THE best pitcher in the game. But, isn’t Haren close enough to him in terms of stats, and way better than him in financial terms, to merit being considered equal to or, in some cases, better than Santana? I sure think so…

By Muggly Other

December 3, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

I’ve been bitten by the reality bug! I’m not the least bit uncomfortable knowing that the Braves are only going to do “the right deal” and not get involved in some of the nutty scenarios that are out there.

I agree with the Duffy thing. Duffy quit and went home a couple of years ago after being sent down and Jim Tracy had to play shrink and soothe his feelings. Braves don’t need some guy with baggage and CERTAINLY don’t need some guy who shuts it down when he gets a cramp! (already have one of those…cough-clearing throat-)

On a final note….after seeing what some of the pitching is gonna cost teams out there…Glavine looks more and more like a bargain.

By rainman

December 3, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

has anyone looked at the giants lineup. It may be one of the weakest of all time. They have some good pitching and that is all that will keep them baring a trade from losing 100 games next year.

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

the huge percentages of players who fail b4 the ever get to the majors and the extremely low minor league salaries

This is true as well. Baseball pulls in a lot of players and puts them in the minors and makes them earn their keep. So a kid from High School who’s terrible at school and not a super start at the game can go straight into the minors and try to earn his way onto a major league team.
I can’t think of a single high school Football player that goes straight into the NFL. I’d love to hear about one though. Basketball on the other hand has a few super studs that make the big jump. You’re pretty much looking at the college teams as the minor leagues of these sports (even so with some baseball players). And, from there you will find a massive selection of players that never amount to anything what so ever. You’ll also find that for a large portion of these players, the pay isn’t all that great either. Just the bigger stars of the game at those levels get the really sweet scholarships. Similarly in baseball, those kids projected to be huge get big signing bonuses and typically move quickly through the minors. Within 3 years they’ll be in the show making a name for themselves.

The other difference is in longevity of play. A good baseball player can play for over 20 years. In today’s market there are plenty of 40+ year old ball players still pulling in 10+ million a season. That isn’t found in other sports. The NFL has had a handful of 40 year old players, but there aren’t nearly as many as there are in baseball and they don’t make nearly as much.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the earning potential of all 3 major sports is similar over the course of the player’s career. I’d actually think a baseball player could earn more over his career than any other sport simply due to the longevity of a career and the free agent market minus salary caps. By earnings I’m talking team contracts, not endorsments.

By Darren

December 3, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

What is all this talk about the Braves wanting to go get a backup shortstop? Why aren’t they willing to go with Brent Lillredge at this spot? He could get in the at bats he needs to stay sharp by playing backup SS,2B, and possibly even CF. If they let him work there in Spring Training. Save the money and go with him making the league minimum.

By Jhmeid in Downtown Dec

December 3, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Efrim

RE: Blacks in Baseball

As a former all county baseball player in high school as a 9th grader in the late 80’s and a Black man, I think your summary is spot on!

I only disagree with your poverty line excuse because: 1. There are more middle to upper class African Americans in America than there has ever been, do not let the media fool you. 2. Dominicans play baseball with milk cartons and twine until they are selected into the plantation system known as the Academies. Go to the parks in any African American neighborhood during the Little League baseball team.

The two major factors for lower African-American are:

1. It is just not “cool” to play baseball in school, they don’t announce your scores at school, no pre-baseball pep rallies, there are cheerleaders nor fans at the game.

2. For the young generation of African American Males, if you are not supremely athletically gifted, the best sport to play in high school is “Do nothing”

There is no embarassment associated with not being in Chess Club, Tennis Club, Science Club, playing soccer or baseball.

Why? Because high school is it, there is no thought of high school being a pretext to something else.

We have a lot of internal problems as African Americans and lower participation in baseball is a Symptom, not a disease!

The disease is apathy!!!

Promote:

African American Baseball athletes as cool (If skateboarders are now seen as cool athletes-how about 95MPH Lefties?) Integrate them into the MTV Nation.

College-HBCU’s are going under because black males don’t even think about college. BET? Vibe? Pls help (I am doing my part in my home and I am a college teacher).

If college becomes a goal, then taaa-daa maybe extracurricular activities will become almost as important as shoes and how low your pants hang.

I refuse to indict Hip-hop with the hope that we can use it to get the message out, because I promise you that we need just as many teachers, police officers and middle managers as we need Major League Baseball players!!!

By Jared

December 3, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Here is what should be done:

Braves get: Ian Snell and Xavier Nady

Pirates get: Chuck James, Brent Lillibridge and Gorky Hernandez

All around win-win.

By Braves4Ever

December 3, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

D’Backs Trade Quentin To White Sox For Chris Carter According to MLB Radio via MetsBlog, update from Winter Meetings… 1st trade.

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Jhmeid in Downtown Dec

Wasn’t me man. Not sure who it was, but it wasn’t me.

By Dennis

December 3, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

DOB is going to be on XM Radio with Charlie Steiner in a few minutes. Unfortunately I am back at work and cant hear it.

Big week in Nashville. Wish the Braves were going to be active. Would love another Soriano trade.

By nOLIE

December 3, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

I think Nady would be a good addition and as far as defense you could always do a late inning sub.It also would provide depth for trading Diaz,if the right deal came along,and insurance at 1B.TNRON

I think that the Braves have pretty much made it clear that they are after a very short term CFer and a VERY cheap one too I’m sure. besides the fact that Nady is not a defensive CFer(which the Braves have also stated that they are after) he would not be cheap or short term. The only possible way might be if they traded Diaz and got Nady as a LFer,(and is that what we want?) but I really believe that they ARE NOT gonna spend much more money than they already have tied up in payroll. Nice to dream, but count on it at all

By Efrim

December 3, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Jared

I bet you if the Pirates put Snell on the open market, they could get even more than that. Interesting nonetheless.

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Afternoon friends and neighbors…

DOB, as enormous as Orlando’s hotel is I can’t fathom Nashville being bigger, but it’s understandable since it’s Gaylord’s home base and all. Still, may want to take a loaf of bread so you can leave a trail of breadcrumbs with you.

As DOB was able to mention before, the Veterans Committee elected five managers/executives to the hall today. Along with the aformentioned Williams, Kuhn and O’Malley, Barney Dreyfuss and Billy Southworth were also elected.

Southworth does have a Braves connection in that he managed the Boston Braves from 1946 to 1951. Under Southworth’s tenure, the Braves sandwiched fourth places finishes around a third place finish in ‘47 and an NL pennant in ‘48. Southworth won two WS titles and three NL pennants during his stint there from 1940-1945.

Dreyfuss owned the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1900 until his death in 1932. Dreyfuss owned the Louisville Colonels, which was in the NL from 1892 until 1899. In 1899, the NL decided to pare down from 12 to 8 teams. Dreyfuss moved several Colonels from Louisville to Pittsburgh, including Honus Wagner, and the Pirates won back-to-back-to-back pennants from 1901 to 1903. Pittsburgh added NL pennants in 1909, 1925 and 1927 and won the WS in 1909 and 1925.

By Oregon_Braves

December 3, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Jhmeid - Superb post. Thanks.

By Random

December 3, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

DAP—

I concur. I concede.

No mas, no mas.

:-)

By bruce

December 3, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Dave, in case it helps, I have checked in about 8 times today looking for updates/news/new blog and have read your comments so far today, so maybe others are looking often, but just not writing, waiting for you.

Also thanks for your perspective on Cormier and Stockman… I had thought the Braves were really impressed with how Cormier pitched last spring training, as if it was a new/higher level of performance, that the nagging injury just did not let him get back to during the season, I realize his stats were not good, but attributed that to coming back too soon or still being hurt. Thanks, Bruce

By 22oz

December 3, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, who sings “Nashville Cats”? You should know right?

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

One last thing I forgot to add to my discussion, and that’s my memory of Dick Williams.

His HOF resume is not a question in my mind, but I’ll always remember him for the Pascual Perez fiasco in August ‘84 whether it’s fair or not. Cooler heads certainly did not prevail on that day at the joint on Capitol Avenue whether it was on the field, in the dugout or in the stands.

By Greg in TN

December 3, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Argghhh. Keyboard malfunction folks, giving it up to someone else for now… Southworth won two WS titles and three NL pennants during his stint in St Louis from 40-45.

By Muggly Other

December 3, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Not DOB…. but….Lovin’ Spoonfull

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

jhmeid great points.

The problem with college baseball unfortunately is that there are very limited scholarship opportunities in college baseball. Only about 40% of college baseball players are covered by scholarships. On a 30 man team, there are only about 12 scholarships available.

Because college baseball is not a money revenue generating sport and because of Title IX, if you give 25 scholarships to the baseball players, you also have to give 25 scholarships to the softball players. It is not economically feasible therefore for universities to give away alot of college scholarships to play baseball.

So, beyond the bonus baby thing, if you are not good enough to be a first or second round pick in baseball out of high school and get handsomely compensated, college baseball is not an alternate route alot of black athletes can afford to take because they may have to pay their way through school.

If they are as equally good in basketball and football however, they can go play those sports and get a full ride through college.

Also, if you play college baseball, you MUST stay in school for 3 years before becoming eligible to be drafted again. In college basketball, on the other hand, you have to only wait one year.

By Random

December 3, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Lew—

With all due respect (I was a peripheral participant in the UGA art school scene in the late 70s; I’ve seen and admired your work; and I’ve read and appreciated your posts here) — with all due respect, thinking or saying an assertion is absurd doesn’t make it so. I mean, he’s not saying the earth is flat or denying the Holocaust.

Plus, if the assertions are absurd, it should be almost as easy to disprove them as it is to simply deny them. (And if they’re absurd in extremis, even if only in one’s opinion, I’d think the best course would be to simply ignore them.)

I’ve seen a lot of good arguments this morning from you and Savannah Guy and (especially) Braveheart (and, gosh, now a whole host of others within the past couple of hours).

I’m sure I’m not the only one here who appreciates the efforts — thanks.

And I guess it’s now incumbent upon me (“what are the numbers? what are the numbers? squawk”) to actually go out and come up with some numbers (if there are any that are pertinent and/or interesting). Wish me luck.

Thanks again.

By DAP

December 3, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Jared forget nady, just trade for snell. i would try to avoid giving up james though.

i think snell would do alot better on a better team, but james has only two less career wins in about half as many starts as snell has.

By Wayne in Utah

December 3, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Dave We are on, just checking for updates.

Who is Chris Carter?

By Jared

December 3, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Dodgers offering Andruw a two year deal for a little over 30 million. Looks like another failure for Boras.

By Greg O.

December 3, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Wayne, Here’s some info on Chris Carter from MLB.com:

Carter, who will turn 21 later this month, was ranked among the White Sox top 10 prospects by Baseball America. A 15th-round pick by Chicago in the 2005 First-Year Player Draft, he has tremendous power and a good idea of the strike zone.

Last year with Kannapolis of the Class A South Atlantic League, Carter hit .291 with 25 homers and 93 RBIs. He drew 67 walks, which led to a .383 on-base percentage, and he slugged .522.

With the tremendous power also comes strikeouts. Carter fanned 112 times in 467 at-bats.

By Renegator

December 3, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

From mlbtraderumors.com

Dodgers Make Offer To Andruw Jones

UPDATE, 12-3-07 at 1:04pm: ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick says the Dodgers have a two-year, $32MM offer on the table. That seems a little light; I suggested $38MM earlier.

By Anders

December 3, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or do others see Pettitte’s announcement yesterday that he’s coming back as a company move? Send’s a message to the Twins that the Yanks aren’t absolutely desperate on the same day Boy George gives the Twins an ultimatum. I hope the Twins call Boy George on it. He can flip on that statement just like he did on the no more A-Rod if he opt’s out statement. He’s starting to look like a bigger bag of wind than the old man.

By nOLIE

December 3, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

The other difference is in longevity of play. A good baseball player can play for over 20 years. In today’s market there are plenty of 40+ year old ball players still pulling in 10+ million a season. That isn’t found in other sports. The NFL has had a handful of 40 year old players, but there aren’t nearly as many as there are in baseball and they don’t make nearly as much. I wouldn’t be surprised if the earning potential of all 3 major sports is similar over the course of the player’s career. I’d actually think a baseball player could earn more over his career than any other sport simply due to the longevity of a career and the free agent market minus salary caps. By earnings I’m talking team contracts, not endorsments.TP

thats true, but how many 17-20 year old kids are gonna be thinking ‘bout that? In fact its even worse than that. baseball is a sport that for the most part takes a lot of years of play to get proficient enough to even know whether you can think about a pro career, so those kids would have to be thinking long term at 8 or 10 or 12. Hmmm. True a few great athletes have picked it up later in life, but very few have ever struck it rich. Most are like Lombard who never was able to hit well enough to be able to get his real assets into the game. I just think a lot of it’s cultural though. Lots of young blacks I know kid me about being a fan and dis it as a ‘boring ol’ white man’s game’

By Wayne in Utah

December 3, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks Greg.

By TommyP

December 3, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Andruw offered 2 year $32 million by Dodgers.

Elijah Dukes to the Nationals? Might happen.

Bowden sure does love those toolsy players.

By Braveheart

December 3, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Too bad Chris Farley is no longer alive so he could play Hank Steinbrenner in the Tommy Boy sequel.

By nOLIE

December 3, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

who sings “Nashville Cats”?

originally Lovin’ Spoonful I think. don’t know if there is a new version

By TommyP

December 3, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Must be nice to give up young talent like Carlos Quentin and not really be reeling from it. Quentin is a very, very nice talent. Once he recovers from surgery, he’s a player.

Az. and the Chisox seem to enjoy dealing with each other. Isn’t that where the D’backs got their CF?

So the D’back trade one older prospect for one younger prospect ‘cause they don’t need him right now.

Sounds logical.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

220z, I’m thinking Lovin’ Spoonful….

By nOLIE

December 3, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

It seems crazy to me that people are essentially calling Haren the poor man’s Santana. While that might be a fair assessment in salary terms (since Santana will probably be a 20 million a year pitcher shortly and Haren will remain a 5 million a year pitcher for the next couple seasons), I would be going hard after Haren if I had the minor league resources.Saltywoody

Here is an excerp from a Stark article the other day that speaks to your question I think. ‘How great, how dominating, is Santana?

So we took a look at his totally insane numbers. Let’s start with this:

• Santana has led the American League in fewest baserunners allowed per nine innings for four straight seasons. So who else, you ask, has done that?

How about nobody?

Lefty Grove led the AL in that category for three straight years, from 1930 to ‘32. But that’s as close as anyone gets in that league.

In the National League, only two pitchers ever did it four years in a row — Carl Hubbell (1931-34) and Sandy Koufax (1962-65). And that’s the whole list.

Pretty good group. In the past 70 years, it’s Santana and Koufax. Period.

• But in those same four seasons, Santana also has finished first or second in the league in strikeouts. (And it easily could have been four first-place finishes in a row, if rain hadn’t forced him to exit early in his final start this year.)

And that’s where Santana separates himself from Koufax and Hubbell.

Koufax slipped to fourth in strikeouts in 1964. Hubbell tumbled to sixth in whiffs in 1934.

So Santana is the only pitcher in history to run off a four-year stretch combining that kind of strikeout domination with allowing so few baserunners to run around.

What about Pedro Martinez? Just missed. He was first or second in strikeouts every year from 1997 to 2000, but he fell to third in baserunners per nine innings in 1998. No other active pitcher is even in the discussion.

• Over these past four years, Santana has averaged more than a strikeout an inning, pitched at least 219 innings in every season and piled up at least 4.5 whiffs for every walk in each of those years. Let’s put that in perspective.

The only other pitcher in history to do that four straight seasons was Randy Johnson (1999-2002).

Just one other pitcher in the history of baseball has done that more than one year in a row even — Curt Schilling (two).

In fact, no American League pitcher has ever had more than one season like that in a row. Not Nolan Ryan. Not Roger Clemens. Not Pedro. Nobody. Amazing.’

By Rick Roberts

December 3, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Players who meet our needs: LHBP: D.Marte, John Rheinecker, *Johnathan Sanchez, Jack Tachsner. SS/2B: Ben Zobrist, Josh Wilson, Jason Smith,Maicer Isturis, Willie Bloomquist, Alex Cintron, Clint Barmes, *Craig Counsel, *Omar Infante, *Ryan Freel. Ryan Freel the best as he can play CF—great player for our BN. Backup CF’s harder to find for our qualifications—save money there and go with what we have.
Braves’ trading ‘chips’: Scott Thorman, Phil Stockman, Tyler Yates, Willie Harris, Willie Aybar, Brayan Pena, and even Chuck James, plus a few minor leaguers. Keep Matt Diaz—he is a solid LF—not as much HR power, but is a great contact and clutch hitter. His defense is okay now.
Ryan Freel and Damaso Marte would be perfect, plus I like Sanchez’s arm. Again, Terry Evans, OF of the Angels, is worth picking up. Anyway, Frank, I’ll turn it over to you!

By Lew

December 3, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Random Dude, He, like Terence Moore, implies that the lack of African Americans is due to a covert conspiracy of racist extremes. I contend that this is ridiculous-that the problem lies more in the fact that there is a larger pool of players now that all of Central and South America, Japan, Korea and other countries has opened up.

In addition, as some of us discussed above, economics also have somewhat to do with it. Whether or not a minor leaguer stays 2, 4 or 6 (and yes, that is a bit extreme, but certainly not unheard of) years, or they choose to go to college, it still takes longer to realize your earning potential in baseball as opposed to the NFL or NBA. In fact, many players are now participating in these sports professionally without even attending college after high school. Try starting on an MLB team right out of high school. I doubt that has happened much, if at all since WW2 when the Reds brought up the recently departed Joe Nuxhall at age 15.

All in all, my problem is the assertion that there is a racial motivation behind the fewer numbers of African Americans in MLB. There are numerous players of all hues and colors-all Nationalities and ethnic origins. Wasn’t integration about increasing racial diversity? Seems to me that the effort has borne fruit. Were there fewer minorities in baseball, there would be reason for concern. Just fewer African Americans is indicative of other causes-certainly NOT racism.

By Anders

December 3, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Braveheart I guess that would make David Spade Brian Cashman. They’re driving around the country trying to sign free agents to save the Yankees. Rob Lowe could be Theo Epstein.

By Roman Gal

December 3, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

I’m sure David O’Brien over at the AJC will “file” a new blog with any updates about the goings-on at the winter meetings today. So I’ll put that link up and try to highlight the important parts while leaving out any references to motorcycles, cigars, Nashville area diners, music lyrics, or any other ego-stroking that may crop up.

I’m sorry…but this made me laugh. It’s wrong for someone to write that. But still…

By McFann

December 3, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Ya know, the only good thing about raking is that every time we do it, it always rains the next day…and we find little snakes.

It would ROCK if the Braves had Santana, but the asking price is far too great.

By rich brave

December 3, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

RANDOM:

Yours of 2:00 p.m. I see you pulled your best Roberto Duran imitation. Were you sitting on a corner stool when you wrote that post?

By beachcomber

December 3, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

What a wonderful time of year! The hot stove is humming. We watch the “big boys” from the East throw around monopoly dollars for a guy no matter how dominating can only make a difference in a maximum of 20 per cent of his team’s games.

Meanwhile we little guys down south look pretty good with maybe a lefty reliever stuffed in our stocking. Think that CF thing will work itself out without looking outside the reservation.

While it ain’t biking in mountains with TP and the Marlin’s skipper, it is a top down day on the Florida west coast with the Beach Boys blaring. Life doesn’t get much better - until pitchers and catchers report!

By beachcomber

December 3, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

I had posted just before Roman Gal’s 3:11 post showed up. Hey if you can’t talk a little music, bikes, cars and great places to eat, why bother to have a blog!

By AdirondackDave

December 3, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Lew — Thanks so much for my Wurlitzer which arrived in the mail today. For those newbees who don’t know, Lew is a fine artist and does subjects from sports figures to nature, fantasy, etc. Do yourself a favor and check out one of our favorite bloggers great work at his website: LewHartman.com

Chipper is a big favorite at my grandson’s home in Atlanta so his portrait will occupy an honored place in his room, of that I am certain. Thanks again, my friend.

By Marty

December 3, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Are there any thoughts of signing Steve Finley to a one-year deal? If we really want a stopgap to play just for ‘07 until Schafer is ready, Finley seems like he might be worth a shot. I don’t know how good his health is these days, but in an almost full season during ‘06, he made all of one error, almost all of that time playing CF. In ‘07, he made 0 errors in 29 games in CF. He probably still has some speed as well, as demonstrated by his 12 triples in ‘06. Any thoughts?

By 22oz

December 3, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Nationals get Elijah Dukes. Jim Bowden loves outfielders as he now has Kearns, Wily Mo Pena, Milledge, and Dukes. Maybe we could get Langerhans back to play CF.

By ppaddy123

December 3, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Random Re your post last 10:46PM, I read your post directed at me and others on here, so I went back and re-read what I had written. Personally, I don’t believe I said anything, about anyone being stupid. I stated, quite clearly, that disliking anyone because of the color of their was stupid. Disliking someone they’re an A*******HOLE is natural…..you A*******HOLE!

But since the topic of racism will not go away, I have a suggestion to the people that continue to bring it up here on the blog as well as in the AJC (Terence Moore. There is absolutely no way a white guy (that’s me) will ever understand or relate to what it’s like being black. Instead of bringing up the fact that there are fewer blacks (African Americans) playing baseball now, compared to say 10 years ago, why not ask the black community as a whole, “why aren’t more blacks playing baseball?” That is where the answer is at! It’s not with a 40 something white guy! I might have an opinion on the subject, but I’ve got no answer.

So, why aren’t more African Americans playing baseball? Only the African American community can answer that question honestly….

By Jhmeid in Downtown Dec

December 3, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

You are totally correct, but let’s not put the Chicken before the egg. I don’t think every white kid playing High School Baseball is doing it for a scholarship.

Once again, we are are falling for the poor lil’ black kids arguement.

First we need to make High School baseball more appealing, then there will be a larger pool of players who WANT to play, then eventually there will be more players in the major leagues.

Hopefully in the meanwhile, more African American kids are involved in extracurricular activities and eventually College.

Segue

I would love to have Chone Figgins!!!

By Muggly Other

December 3, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

I don’t want any pitcher that I’m going to have to give 130-150 mil for. Don’t care how great they are, they could be one pitch away from the scrap head and you’re eating a contract that cripples you for years! (can you say Hampton?)

Big contracts for pitchers are much more risky than for position players. Also don’t want a quarter of my payroll tied up in any single player. Heck I was sick that the Braves had so much tied up in Andruw, Chipper, Smoltz, Hudson and (Thank God For Insurance…) Hampton.

By chrisklob

December 3, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Jhmeid, I’ve read your posts today and appreciate your comments, as I appreciated Robert, Justice is Best’s comments regarding this subject the other day. As a middle aged white dude, I will never know what it is like to be anything other than white just as you will never know what it’s like to be anything other than African American. Your perspectives are enlightening and appreciated.

With regard to your last post, I think you have to think about getting the kids involved in baseball long before high school. By the time my son hits ninth grade, at age 14, he will have played baseball for ten years already. That type of experience will make it very difficult for a “newby” to the sport to excel in relation to the kids with more experience.

My son has been playing baseball for six or seven years now. In all that time I’ve only seen four or five African American kids and even fewer children of Hispanic parents. There are plenty of kids in our area of those groups and I’ve often wondered why little league baseball was so predominately white.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Seems like the Dodgers are going to lowball Andruw. Considering the offer they put on the table I’m thinking the Rangers may be the team in the lead for Andruw. They will offer more money and years.

How about this for a darkhorse team for Andruw’s services. The Cincinatti Reds. Andruw could thrive in that bandbox. If the Reds lets say offered 4 years/$60-$65 mil, that wouldn’t be that bad of an offer for them and would allow them to shop Adam Dunn more aggressively whether it be now or during the ‘08 season (as long as its before June).

By kdbanks

December 3, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Thorman talk reminded me of something - remember how the big joke last Spring was that since Thorman’s from Canada it takes him a month or so to “thaw out”?

Hopefully he’s sitting in a sauna right now so he’ll be thawed early this year.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

December 3, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

If the Nats do get Dukes, I think they got a real steal. I wouldn’t mind seeing Dukes in Atlanta. The guy can play. I know he has issues but he just needs some positive influences to straighten him out. Bowden has done a helluva job getting both Dukes and Milledge.

By Braves4Ever

December 3, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Nats got Dukes for almost nothing, PTBNL. Unreal!!!

By knowitall

December 3, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Marty, isn’t Finley the one who always loses the ball in the in the lights(or lack of lights) at Turner Field? I don’t think playing 82 games at the Ted would be a good idea for him or the Braves.

By ppaddy123

December 3, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

chrisklob 4:01PM Post

I agree…..why is little league baseball so predominately white?

By uga-brave

December 3, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

espn is reporting the mets and baltimore are getting close to a deal for bedard.

By AZBravoFan

December 3, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Someone earlier mentioned Craig Counsell. He would fit nicely as the IF backup. He’s got a couple rings, has some speed, decent fielder. Plus he’s one of those guys who may not always put up huge numbers, but he’s a pain at the plate. He’ll foul off a ton a pitches and make the opponent work to get him out. The Braves could certainly use that in the late innings. And Bobby’s always liked him too.

By Pablo

December 3, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

The Mets must be doing cartwheels. They got a first rounder and a sandwich pick for a washed up pitcher. Even worse, they got the first rounder from their hated rivals.

I know that draft picks (even in the top 20) don’t mean as much in baseball as they do in other sports, but it still seems like a steep price for a guy that should be retired.

By Braves4Ever

December 3, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

What does TB know that we don’t know. They shipped out a ton of talent in Dukes and D Young. Basically only got Garza and a PTBNL. Now they are looking for a RF. Huh? This is from a club that notoriously asked WAY too much for everyone. Can anyone explain this? Does it make sense to you??

By Kentavo

December 3, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

I played high school baseball on southside of Atlanta in the ’80s (against Marquis Grissom among others)and many of my teammates and our opponents were black, and also multi-sport athletes. I’m white, and my black teammates seemed to love baseball, and loved watching MLB (although many were not Braves fans, since Braves sucked then). What the heck happened? I hope those guys are still fans and pass the love of the game to their kids. But Jmheid is right - the school never got excited about our baseball team until we made it deep into the playoffs one year. And our facilities sucked compared to schools we’d go play that were all-white, such as Lovett and McIntosh, etc.

By Greg O.

December 3, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Marty, I mentioned Finley about a week ago on this blog and was openly laughed at. But I don’t think it’s a bad idea. He can obviously be had for the veteran’s minimum and, according to an ESPN radio report I heard earlier today, he showed up at the winter meetings today looking in shape and youthful. I like it as a very low risk option - especially if they can get him into spring training as a non-roster invite to compete for the job.

By Braves4Ever

December 3, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

I know it’s a long way to ST but now Wash has 4 RFers. Kearns, W M Pena, Milledge and Dukes. I am sure any of them could play left but who plays center? Langerhans?? Anders , efrim or other Mets fans, can Milledge play CF. If Nick Johnson comes back and forces “the meathook” to the OF then it’s even more crowded. Any thoughts? Or who cares?? lol Just curious.

By Shawn B

December 3, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

I hope that Frank Wren changes his mind about going after another starter. With Haren, Blanton, and Bedard all possibly being available, and with the so many prospects in the system, the Braves HAVE to go after another starter that they could keep for several years. And I know they have Jurrjens (ok, I know I didn’t spell that right, but close enough) and they have JoJo Reyes, but another younger starter that has major league experience would really set the rotation up for years to come.

By woogidy

December 3, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Random thoughts and questions.

We all should be rooting for Miguel Cabrera to be traded out of the NL East, Santana to the Yankees(opposed to the Red Sox), and Andruw to L.A.(opposed to any team in the East).

Is Jim Edmonds the best option for a stop-gap center fielder? I hope not.

Fanfest is soon approaching and tickets would make a great Christmas gift.

How about Martin Prado and a prospect for Willy Taveras? Prado seems taylor-made for Coors Doesn’t he?

DOB, Would a team like the Twins, who are shopping Santana, seek out and contact teams who have prospects they highly reguard, or do they just sit back and wait for calls and take the best offer from those teams?

By Anders

December 3, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Uga-Brave John Heyman of SI.com reported that same thing about Bedard on “Mike’d Up” here in NY last night. He felt the Mets didn’t have enough on the table yet but they had the pieces to make it happen if they wanted to pull the trigger (He wasn’t talking about Reyes or Wright or anything like that). I’m suprised at how positively some of these reporters are talking this up. I viewed the Mets as prohibitive in the Bedard sweepstakes at best. I’d love it, I rated my druthers as Bedard, Haren, Santana based on the players they would cost and the salary they would command versus the expected pitching return.

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Hey folks, sorry for the delay but finally got a NEW BLOG POSTED. It’s such a big place here, hard getting back and forth from lobbies to blog

we’re meeting with Wren at 4:30 Central time, so I’ll let you know what he says soon after

By David O'Brien

December 3, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

AZBravoFan, very good call on Counsell. I’m sure he’s been considered for the backup SS job. Fits the bill perfectly. I’ll try to find out more.

By Anders

December 3, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Braves4ever Yes, Milledge was a CF’er. He was blocked by Beltran with the Mets.

By Random

December 3, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123—

My apologies to you, but I think you got my 10:46 on Slick AD crossed up with a silly argument between me and chrisklob about Mike Hampton.

“Stupid” was not an issue in my comments/questions in response to Slick AD’s and the other posts.

I have great respect for what you’ve written here in the past — it’s okay if you think I’m an “A-HOLE”, but please, not for the wrong reason.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

December 3, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

I brought this subject up before , so for those who haven’t read this before…. here goes.

In 1968 , right before the mound was lowered. Bob Gibson did something that is still the stuff of legend. On July 10th he made his first start of the season and for the next 22 consecutive starts , he did the impossible. Reeling off 22 quality starts in a row.

So , what is the significance of this you ask ?

Well , since 1968 , one pitcher has repeated this nearly impossible feat.

In 2004 , Johan Santana reeled off 21 quality starts in a row to end the season and it would have been 22 except that his manager pulled him in the fifth inning of his last start after Santana had given up just one run.

I’m sure that Ron Gardinhire had no clue as to the significance of the moment and probably still doesn’t.

Why is this so unbelievably incredible ? Well , in the modern era of baseball (1969 to present) , this nearly impossible feat has been accomplished just once , by Johan Santana in 2004.

Johan Santana isn’t just any pitcher. He is a cut above the rest , a Hall of Famer in the making at the age of 28.

Hank Steinbrenner are you reading this ? Do you even have a clue ? Do you know what you are about to pi$$ away ? or are you like your daddy , all ego and no brains for baseball ?

By TennesseePaul

December 3, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

how many 17-20 year old kids are gonna be thinking ‘bout that? In fact its even worse than that. baseball is a sport that for the most part takes a lot of years of play to get proficient enough to even know whether you can think about a pro career, so those kids would have to be thinking long term at 8 or 10 or 12.

I’d disagree with this. Those players who are typically good have been playing their whole lives. Not so much for the thought of making big bucks, no matter the sport. When you’re 8 years old you’re playing because it’s fun, not because it’ll be a money maker when you’re in your late 20’s. I don’t think Football players do that, or bankers, dictators, oil drillers or anyone for that matter. When you’re a kid you do what is fun/interesting/what everyone else is doing. If the game of baseball isn’t fun to kids, that’s a whole different subject and has nothing to do with money.
To be clear, I’m not saying kids don’t dream of being a star in a given sport or vocation, but that they don’t wake up every morning for 5 am wind sprints and hitting drills so they can be the best ever, all while at the ripe young age of 8 years old. I don’t think I’ve ever met an 8 year old kid that focused on anything that far into the future.
Secondly, while baseball requires time to get ready, it is a sport you can play hard every day unlike football so you can gain skill at it swiftly enough. And as with most sports, you’ll know if you’re good by the time you get into high school. It’s as easy as looking around at everyone else and noticing you’re head and shoulders above them.
Convincing a kid to go into Baseball over other sports would be a toss up to a young man truly open to any one of the sports and skilled enough to excel in each one. If all else is equal in the young mans life when it pertains to skill and knowledge of the game, and the only choice is money, then it is up to the potential drafting teams to sale him on the game. Otherwise, it’s a matter of favorites. Do you like this game more than that game? Then perhaps that’s the game you should play.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

December 3, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

All I have to say is some of you smart dudes are missing out on a great opportunity to apply for a government grant to study the issue of race in baseball in general. Should be at least $50,000 in it for someone to come up with the answers. If one person asks the question thousands more want to know the answer.

By cricket

December 3, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

RJIB, Braves4Ever, I live in TB. Here nobody has any more patience for Dukes, they would have discarded him for an empty bag of balls. I am all for 2nd (and 3rd and 4th) chances, but this guy is pure trouble, not worth the talent he possesses.

By Braves4Ever

December 3, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

Anders Cricket thanks for the info. Many thanks!

By mo in the boonies

December 3, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

The Chicago Trib reports that both the cubs and sox are very interested in F*******. Price mentioned was a multi-year contract averaging 10 Mil a year. So that lets Andruw out for them.

Lew JHmein in Downtown Dec had a very interesting post at 12/3/1:38 pm. Wurlitzer worthy??