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Hampton hurt again; whither Andruw?

By David O'Brien | Monday, November 26, 2007, 06:25 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

A quick one, before he’s away at the Winter Meetings (OK, that was fairly lame paraphrasing of the The Who’s rockin’ second album title).

If it seems like negotiation wheels are grinding slowly for free agents such as the Braves’ Andruw Jones, Ron Mahay and Octavio Dotel, well, they are. But that could change abruptly Saturday, when the free-agent market really starts to take shape.

Saturday (Dec. 1) is the last day for teams to offer salary arbitration to their former players who became free agents. And unless another suitor is sure a Class A free agent’s former team is going to offer arbitration, there’s not much reason to sign that player before Dec. 1. Jones, Mahay and Dotel aren’t Class A free agents (Dotel isn’t even a Class B), but moves around baseball usually have a trickle-down effect.

Think about it. If you — you being the new team; c’mon work with us here in this example — sign a Class A free agent before Dec. 1, before that player’s former team declines to offer arbitration, then you have to give up a first-rolund draft pick.

And if there’s a reasonable chance you won’t have to give up a pick, well, why wouldn’t you wait until after Dec. 1? (I’ll answer that — you would wait.)

THIS JUST IN: Hampton is hurt … again.

I was just about to file the blog when Frank Wren returned my call from this afternoon. When I asked about Hampton and the report from the Spanish-language website that he’d hurt a leg in his Mexican Winter League debut, Wren confirmed.

Said he had no idea Hampton was hurt when I talked to him (Wren) early Friday morning before my flight to Kansas City. He got a call later that day from Hampton.

Anyway, I’ll just post here my story that I just filed for the paper on this latest ailment for the oft-injured lefty:

By DAVID O’BRIEN

It’s a familiar refrain, this time from south of the border: Mike Hampton is hurt again.

The Braves left-hander injured his right hamstring in the first inning of his first start in the Mexican Winter League last week. He left after one inning, and it’s uncertain if he’ll pitch again this winter.

“We don’t know when he’ll come back [in winter ball], if at all,” Braves general manager Frank Wren said. “There’s only four weeks left in the season, and hamstring injuries usually take a while.”

Hampton, 35, has missed the past two seasons recovering from elbow surgeries on his pitching arm, and the Braves hoped he could make seven starts in Mexico to better gauge the likelihood of having him back in Atlanta’s starting rotation for the 2008 season.

But the injury in Thursday’s start for Navojoa was another reminder of why the Braves say they aren’t counting on Hampton - not like they were counting on him a year ago at this time.

“We’re cautiously optimistic that Mike can bounce back and be a starter,” Wren said. “But it’s simple as this: there’s no guarantees.”

The Braves don’t plan to pursue another starter this winter. They say that even without Hampton, they’d have seven other pitchers vying for their five-man rotation.

John Smoltz, Tim Hudson and Tom Glavine are penciled in at the top. Hampton will have the fourth spot if healthy, and incumbent Chuck James would have competition for the fifth spot from rookies Jo-Jo Reyes and Jair Jurrjens and September surprise Jeff Bennett.

Hampton hurt his right hamstring when he came off the mound to make a play near the end of the first inning Thursday. He tried to keep his leg loose and come back for a second inning, but the pain worsened in warm-ups before the inning, and he left the game.

Wren said Hampton called him Friday and told him the bad news, and the GM was informed by trainers that the muscle had “bled out,” usually a sign of something more than a mild strain.

Hampton is owed $15 million in 2008, the final season of an eight-year, $121 million contract he signed with Colorado. He was traded to Atlanta after the 2002 season in a three-way deal with Florida.

The Braves were responsible for $48.5 million of his salary during 2003-08, but insurance covered part of it the past two seasons. Wren said insurance would again pay part of it again if Hampton is DL’d in 2008.

The Braves have never disclosed how much of Hampton’s salary has been covered by insurance while on the disabled list; the amount was believed to be between 40-60 percent on a prorated basis.

Hampton has had eight stints on the disabled list since being traded to the Braves after the 2002 season. He hasn’t pitched in a game stateside since 2005, when he was 5-3 with a 3.50 ERA in 12 starts before blowing out his elbow and having Tommy John ligament-transplant surgery.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled blog….

Where were we? Oh, explaining why teams wait (or don’t) until Dec. 1 to sign free agents.

The Orange County Angels of Greater Laguna Beach had to know Minnesota would offer Torii Hunter arbitration (there was no way Hunter would’ve accepted a one-year deal with the Twins when he was in position for a huge, multi-year contract on the open market), so the Angels last week pulled the trigger on a five-year, $90 million deal for Hunter.

The Braves had to know the Mets would offer Tom Glavine arbitration — everyone knew Glavine already declined a $13 million option to return to the Mets, so there was no reason for the Mets to think Glavine would accept arbitration, which would’ve resulted in a salary below $13 million. The Mets would’ve loved for him to do that — they wanted him back, and are scrambling now for a replacement.

So instead of waiting for the formality of the Mets offering arbitration on Saturday, the Braves went ahead and signed Glavine last week to a one-year, $8 million contract. By doing so, the Braves gave up their first-round draft pick (No. 18 overall) to the Mets, who also will get a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds for losing Glavine.

Just so we’re clear, since several folks have asked me: You need to understand there was no way, no reason, for the Braves to think the Mets wouldn’t offer him arbitration, and absolutely no reason for the Mets not to offer it, since they wanted Glavine back and since his salary through arbitration would likely have been less than his salary through the option he declined.

Also, Glavine made it pretty clear to those close to him that he wanted to either pitch for the Braves or retire.

Most other significant moves this fall have been trades, with the notable exception of eyebrow-raising free-agent signings of relief pitchers to contracts so large — Scott Linebrink gets four years, $19 million from the White Sox? Oh, my — as to indicate baseball is back full-bore in salary insanity after a brief period in which the sharp annual rise in salaries had slowed a bit.

Again, everyone knew Linebrink would be offered arbitration, since there’s no way a relief pitcher in his situation would accept it and a one-year deal, instead of one of the multi-year, lucrative offers he was sure to receive.

The cases of Jones, Mahay and Dotel are all very different situations.

With Mahay, I’m pretty certain the Braves will offer arbitration, but you never know. Assuming they do, or if someone signs him before Saturday, the Braves will get a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds for losing Mahay, a Class B free agent. But that shouldn’t stop another team from signing him before then, if they wanted to, since they don’t actually give up the pick; rather, it’s created.

However, again this is likey a case of teams waiting to see how the market shapes up.

The Yankees, who are interested, likely know that Mahay’s not going to sign with anyone until the Yankees weigh in with their offer, right? So they’ll wait until after Saturday. At least that’s my read on the situation.

With Andruw and Dotel, I’d say there’s no way the Braves will offer arbitration to either. They don’t want to be stuck with perhaps a $14-16 mill salary for Jones, whose agent, Scott Boras, sent the Braves into scramble mode to meet payroll when he had client Greg Maddux accept arbitration from the Braves years ago, when the Braves thought there was no way the veteran pitcher would do so.

Everyone I’ve talked to believes as I do, that Boras has far overestimated the market for Jones, and that it’s a pipe dream to think the 10-time Gold Glove winner is going to get anywhere near $20 million a year in a long-term contract.

If Boras doesn’t think Jones can get more for Jones than, say, $14 mill per in a four-year contract (just tossing around figures, haven’t heard any proposed offers yet), then what’s to stop Boras from having Andruw accept arbitration?

I know what he’s told me and others about not taking one-year offer for Jones, but if Andruw accepted arbitration, Boras could simply say Andruw made the decision on his own, against Boras’ advice, because Andruw had such love for the Braves and a desire to come back for one more season with Atlanta in hopes of them reconsidering a long-term commitment to him in the future, etc., etc.

But the Braves can hope a team signs him before Saturday, since that would have given Atlanta a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds, the only way they’ll get compensation for Jones without offering him arbitration. They wouldn’t get a first-round pick from the team that signed him before Saturday, because Jones is only a Class B free agent, not a Class A.

(By the way, I know it sounds strange that the 2005 MVP runner-up, a player who hit 92 homers during the 2005-06 seasons and has 10 Gold Gloves, would slip from the Class A ranks, but the latest collective bargaining agreement had revisions to the system and reduced the Class A free agents from the top 30 percent to the top 20 percent. Only the last two seasons are considered for such ranking purposes, so anything Jones did before 2006 doesn’t factor into this matter).

For much the same reason, teams are wise to wait to sign Dotel, who made $5 mill last season. The way the arbitration system is set up, players rarely take significant paycuts and usually get raises. The Braves don’t want to pay anywhere near the potential arbitration price for Dotel to be a setup man.

If I had to bet right now, I’d say Andruw will end up with the Dodgers or White Sox, Dotel with the Mets or Royals. But I’m glad I don’t have to bet.

Couple other matters: We’ll have another blog later in the week to re-address Braves needs heading into the Winter Meetings in Nashville, but those needs should be familiar by now, since GM Frank Wren has stated them clearly.

Left-handed reliever. Utility man who’d be the primary backup shortstop. And a stopgap center fielder with more experience than the three rookies the Braves currently have penciled in to battle for the job: Jordan Schafer, Josh Anderson (acquired from Houston in the Oscar Villarreal trade) and Gregor Blanco.

Again, if they don’t trade for a Coco Crisp or David DeJesus, the Braves say they are prepared to go with one of the three above-mentioned young players, who’ll compete during spring training for the job.

Wren has made it clear the Braves aren’t looking for another starting pitcher, because they believe they have eight capable starters for five spots: John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Glavine, Hampton (if healthy come April; gigantic “if”), Chuck James, Jo-Jo Reyes, Jair Jurrjens, and Jeff Bennett.

Now, could another starter fall in their lap through an expanded winter-meetings trade? Sure. But I really don’t expect that to happen. I expect the Braves to focus on their center-field and lefty reliever needs.

And judging from what seems like a less-than-aggressive approach regarding Mahay, I think the Braves have likely decided pretty much that his price tag is going to be out of their range. Maybe they’ll get aggressive next week and make him an offer, but I haven’t heard any indications of that yet.

B. Jones, Lillibridge, etc.: Asked Wren about Brandon Jones playing center field in the Mexican Winter League, and the GM said just what I suspected: Means only that that’s where Navajoa had a need. Braves aren’t considered him for center field, at all. “He’s not a center fielder at the upper levels,” Wren said, reiterating that the Braves plan on him remaining a corner outfielder….

Brent Lillibridge still hasn’t played any winter ball because of that wrist tendinitis he had at the end of the season. Wren said they’ll decide in the next week whether he’ll play this winter or just continue to work out and prepare for spring training. I asked about the possibility of the highly rated shortstop prospect being a utility candidate for the major league club, whether that’s something the Braves would consider, or if they believed he’s still at the stage where he needs to be playing every day in the minors rather than serving as a backup on the major league team.

“We’ll have a better sense of that in the spring,” Wren said. “Most anybody would tell you that if a young guy is not going to get a lot of at-bats, he’s better off staying in the minor leagues. But if there’s a way to get him at-bats, maybe you feel differently. In general, I’d tell you it’s better off to play.”

Alright, that turned into a very long blog.

let’s turn things over to The Possum….

“A GOOD YEAR FOR THE ROSES” by Jerry Chestnut (best sung by George Jones)

I can hardly bear the sight of lipstick

On the cigarettes there on the ashtray

Lying all the way you left them

But at least your lips caressed them

While you packed

Or the lip ring on a half filled cup of coffee

That you poured and didn’t drink

But at least you thought you wanted it

That’s so much more than I can say for me

What a good year for the roses

Many blooms still linger there

Lawn could stand another mowing

Funny I don’t even care

As you turned to walk away

As the door behind you closes

The only thing I have to say

It’s been a good year for the roses

After 3 full years of marriage

It’s the first time that you haven’t made the bed

I’ll guess the reason we’re not talking

Is so little left to say we haven’t said

While a million thoughts go racing through my mind

I find I haven’t said a word

From the bedroom the familiar sound

Of young babies crying goes unheard

What a good year for the roses

Many blooms still linger there

Lawn could stand another mowing

Funny I don’t even care

As you turned to walk away

As the door behind you closes

The only thing I have to say

It’s been a good year for the roses

Permalink | Comments (773) |

Comments

Commenting is now closed for this entry.

By jsizzle

November 26, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

first?

By TravInCumming

November 26, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

second. cmon wren, get us another pitcher. and chone figgins ;)

By MCC

November 26, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

1st??

By hk

November 26, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

.. here are bar charts showing the latest conference rankings, using the raw BCS data …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/bcs4.htm

By player to be named later

November 26, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

third?

By Billy Walsh

November 26, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

Still like the idea of trying to trade for Crisp. Edgar struggled in Boston, and flourished in Atlanta. I have a sneaking suspicion that Crisp could do the same. Did anyone hear the Clash on a Nissan commericial? Out all the songs in the Clash catalogue….lets pick Pressure Drop (which is off a highly underrated Super Black Market Clash Album) Joe Strummer must be turning over in his grave. As for the winter meetings, I would love for Wren to try and pry a starter from Oakland. There is no possible way that the braves can rely on Hampton. Imagine a Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Haren, and Reyes rotation.

By Jared

November 26, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

…and September surprise Jeff Bennett.

Ugh. I can’t believe the Braves stuck themselves with this guy. He’s got no options. Bowman said today he’ll likely start the season in the Atlanta Braves’ bullpen. Hopefully Bennett won’t lose more than two or three games for the Braves before he flames out and is released in late May.

By TJ

November 26, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

OH MY G!!!! DOB

By DonCoburleone

November 26, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton come on down! You’re the next contestant on The Worst Contract in the History of American Sports!

(intro music)

Lets find out!

Bryant “Big Country” Reeves

Six years, $65-million

Big Country? More like a Big Spare Tire. Know how many buckets of fried chicken you can buy with $65-million? We don’t, but we’re guessing that’s where most of Reeves’ money went. Big Country was supposed to be the cornerstone of the Vancouver Grizzlies (that was an NBA team in 1997). Some cornerstone. Reeves ate himself out of the league within three years and the Grizzles aren’t in Vancouver anymore. He was the epitome of a “big stiff.”

Alexei Yashin

10 years, $87.5-million

Even at the time (2001), everyone thought the Islanders giving Yashin a 10-year, $87.5-million contract was insane. Sadly for the Isles, it went from insane to plain stupid. He was supposed to be a star, but he never scored more than 32 goals or more than 75 points in a season. Last season, he limped to an 18-goal, 32-assist season even though he is only 33. His swan song was a no-points performance in a five-game playoff series loss to Buffalo. On the bright side, he had plenty of money to spend on model-girlfriend Carol Alt.

Steve Spurrier

Five years, $25-million

In 2002, the Ol’ Ball Coach was supposed to take his visor, ego and crazy offense to the NFL and light up the scoreboards on the way to Super Bowl titles for the Redskins. Then he found out there’s more to coaching in the NFL than a morning workout and an afternoon tee time. He was on the sideline for two years, 12 victories and 20 losses. We’ll do the math: that’s about $2-million a victory.

Wilson Alvarez

Five years, $35-million

The then-largest contract in Rays history (1997) makes for the biggest bust in Rays history. Unless you count time on the disabled list as being a huge success. Alvarez, who looked more like the Michelin Man than the man, won 17 games in a Rays uniform.

Alex Rodriguez

10 years, $252-million

Let’s set one thing straight. A-Rod probably is the best player in baseball, meaning he deserves to be the highest paid. But the Rangers’ plan to make him the centerpiece of a winning franchise crashed and burned in three years after the December 2000 signing, and the Rangers were desperate to shed themselves of him and his contract. The Yankees took it, moved him to third and are still looking for their first championship with A-Rod. It’s not his fault for the Yankees losing, but we can’t say he has helped win a World Series, either.

Grant Hill

Seven years, $93-million

Poor Grant. Nice guy. In fact, great guy. But no luck at all. Injuries ravaged his career and sunk the Magic, which signed him in 2000. Hill would get hurt climbing off the training table. Okay, that’s an exaggeration, but this isn’t: He played just 200 regular-season games, which equals out to $465, 000 per game. And every single game, you held your breath while waiting for him to get hurt again.

Darren Dreifort

Five years, $55-million

Agent Scott Boras scared the heck out of the Dodgers, hinting that Dreifort, who really had never done a whole lot, was about to sign with a rival club in the National League West. So the Dodgers ponied up a huge contract in 2001. In the first year of the deal, Dreifort had to shut down his season in July. When the five years were up, Dreifort had missed the equivalent of two full seasons and had a 9-15 record.

Allan Houston

Six years, $100-million

Here’s all you need to know about this 2001 deal: Houston doesn’t play anymore. And he was the second-highest-paid player in the NBA. And we have more. The NBA created a rule that allowed teams to take its worst contract off the books. It became known as the “Allan Houston Rule.” Now here’s the funny part. The Knicks didn’t use the Allan Houston Rule on Allan Houston. What made this contract especially heinous is the Knicks offered Houston more than $40-million more than anyone else.

Kevin Brown

Seven years, $105-million

The first $100 million man in baseball was 34! years old when he signed with the Dodgers. He had a solid first season with LA going 18-9 with a 3.00era but after that he recorded only one more decent season in 2003 when he went 14-9. And I’m sure we all remember his disastrous stint with the Yankees after that…

Carl Pavano

Four years, $40-million

In his Yankees career, Pavano earned five wins while compiling a 4.77 ERA. For you math majors out there, that is $8-million per win.

Mike Hampton

Eight years, $121-million

The Crystal River native should earn two places on this list. A solid lefty pitcher in the majors always earns more than he deserves. But even experts raised their eyebrows when Hampton picked up $121-million in 2000 from the Rockies. In two years, he went 21-28 with an ERA of more than 6. Since then, his career has been sidelined by injuries. The kicker: The Rockies still owe him $6-million for a buyout in 2009 assuming the Braves (Hampton’s current team when he comes off the disabled list next season) don’t pick up a $20-million option. Uh, they won’t.

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner! Congratulations Mike Hampton, and thanks for playing!

By David O'Brien

November 26, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

Billy Walsh, you seen the Strummer movie that’s out?

I’m headed off to see Control, the movie about Joy Division and its lead singer.

By JerseyGil

November 26, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

DOB I just went to the pacific league web side and they announce that Hampton will pitch tomorrow again matzalan..Thay not mention his injury. I think Mr Wren need to go down to the Border.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 26, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

Jared The limits of your apparent ignorance knows no bounds…..

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

Please don’t start with Lillibridge in CF,until he patrols CF,he is a SS….,on to other scenarios please.

By JerseyGil

November 26, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

here is for those Habla..

VENADOS VISITAN TERRENO MAYO

Navojoa busca qui�n pague los platos rotos

26 de Noviembre de 2007 (LMP / Alpha Comunicaci�n).- Despu�s de una dolorosa limpia asestada por sus archirrivales Yaquis de Obreg�n en la pasada serie, los Mayos de Navojoa recibir�n a los Venados de Mazatl�n quienes sacaron la mejor parte barriendo a los guindas en una doble cartelera en la que el pitcheo de los rojos se llev� las palmas avasallando a la ofensiva guinda y ahora con la misma medicina buscar�n llevarse al menos un par de triunfos en la visita de tres d�as ante la tribu del Mayo.

Entre los muchos atractivos de esta serie los aficionados podr�n ver en el mont�culo al millonario ligamayorista Mike Hampton qui�n despu�s de una corta presentaci�n volver� a lanzar para ofrecer una actuaci�n m�s larga a su afici�n, Orlando S�nchez usar� los brazos de Alejandro Armenta y Orlando Lara para el segundo y tercero de la serie, dejando a Hampton la responsabilidad del primer juego.

Por su parte los Venados quienes ahora son dirigidos por Eddie D�az buscar�n los triunfos confiando en sus lanzadores H�ctor Navarro, Pablo Ortega y el importado Randy Williams quienes se perfilan como probables abridores para este compromiso.

En el bateo Mazatl�n podr�a presentar novedades ante la salida de Neil Walker del club, mientras Brian Myrow y Roberto Saucedo siguen cargando con el peso ofensivo del equipo, algunos chispazos de Donzell McDonald y el recientemente recuperado Sergio Garc�a han llevado a los Venados a escalar importantes pelda�os en el standing de este giro complementario.

Mientras tanto la artiller�a de los Mayos se muestra bien balanceada, los Mexicanos Luis Alfonso Cruz, �scar Robles y Jos� Amador son buena escolta para los ca�ones de B�rbaro Ca�izares, Brandon Jones y el patrullero Douglas Clark conformando una ofensiva muy balanceada.

A partir de este martes 27 de Noviembre este par de novenas plagadas de talento se enfrentaran buscando definir de que cueros salen m�s correas.

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

And will somebody please put Mike Hampton,out of my MISERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By 200+ 150+

November 26, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton will make three starts for the Braves in spring training next year, then burst into flames.

By BosnianBaller

November 26, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

We gave up our 18th pick for Tom Glavine? Good god what have we become.Wasn’t francouer a 20th overall pick in 02.we gave our top pick to a rival.WOW.Our last three starters are going to be jurgens,reyes,and bennet or james.GET BLANTON. Smoltz and Glavine could get hurt at any stage considering they are 40+ yrs old. We have no centerfeilder and no leftfeilder. Where is all this money I keep hearing about. We have turned into a joke If we have 80 wins in 2008 I’ll be happy

By phiz50

November 26, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

DOB thanks for the information on arbitration. Makes more sense now. I don’t write much but I read the blogs on a daily basis.
I have a couple questions.

What was the name of the pitcher the Braves received from Kansas City for Tony Pena Jr. and what is his status? Do the Braves have a projected back up for Chipper besides Willy Aybar?

Thanks to the all the responsible bloggers.

By Hamstrung Hampton

November 26, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

help. i’ve fallen and i can’t get up.

By Scottie Evil

November 26, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this

I’m with you Bosnian Baller. I want the Braves to show the “money” they always keep talking.And for my SANITY get another STARTING PITCHER FRANK…you know that Tim, John and Tommy are not enough to hold up the bleeding our rotation is going to have by July 31st of 2008…and then again you’ll start to look for a starter and come with the EXCUSE that “there aren’t any”. GET some B* braves managament and mame this TEAM a WINNER.

By Scottie Evil

November 26, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this

By Hamstrung Hampton

November 26, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

start sending the get well cards. i’m gonna need ‘em again.

By Alan

November 26, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

How about the Pirates’ Nate McLough in CF? He had a good season in ‘07 - including something like 23 stolen bases - and his salary is not much above the minimum. He’s due for a raise, of course, but not yet arbitration-eligible. Not sure if the Bucs are willing to trade him, but it might be worthwhile finding out. I have a feeling the more popular names, like DeJesus and Crisp for example, are out of the Braves’ price range. I was shocked to see DeJesus’s salary last year was over 3 million, and Crisp’s was higher than that. Some folks think Scott Podsednik would be a good stop-gap, but he’s not very good defensively and he has a lousy arm. Nook Logan may be an option, but he doesn’t hit at all. Whatever the Braves do, you can bet they’ll put a premium on defense. Which brings us to backup SS/utility IF. I have no idea what they’ll do there. Royce Clayton? Hope not. Miguel Cairo? Not bad. But I still prefer our old pal Wilson Betemit in that role.

By NorthBeachScott

November 26, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone - Nicely done. Or should we say “thanks for not playing?”

DOB Thanks for the update. Great clarification on the strategy of arbitration and draft picks. Perhaps you will not have to repeat it, too often. Too bad about Hampton. Would it be possible to shoot or ban the first blogger who says to cut Hampton, because they do not understand MLB contracts? No one said life was easy. :-)

May we all now leave Andruw in peace? He is not returning to ATL.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 26, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

It was that Mexican water. The Mexican water caused the you know whats which caused me to be dehydrated which caused not enough water to be in my legs and caused me to hurt my hammmy.

By JerseyGil

November 26, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

Phiz50 The name is Eric Cordier…he has tommy john surgery in 2005.

By Greg O.

November 26, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

The only reason Francoeur fell to No. 20 was because he was ticketed for Clemson on a football scholarship… only the hometown Braves and an offer of more money than is usually paid to the No. 20 pick got him into an Atlanta uniform. For reference, here are the No. 18 picks since 2000: Pete Kozma, ss, Seattle. Kyle Drabek, p, Philadephia. CJ Henry, ss, Yankees. Josh Fields, 3b, White Sox. Brad Snyder, of, Cleveland. Royce Ring, p, Braves. Aaron Heilman, p, Mets. Miguel Negron, of, Blue Jays. I’ll take Glavine.

By Jeff R

November 26, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Hampton needs to stay injured, collect his $15 million and let the Braves recoup part of his salary. The guy’s snake-bit, that is if you consider a multi-millionaire “snake-bit.”

By rich brave

November 26, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

BOSNIAN BALLER and SCOTTIE EVIL:

Thanks for the post re: getting a real starting pitcher to be #1 and anchor the starting rotation. It’s obvious that the Braves are NOT going to get another starter as they contend they already have seven - maybe eight(Hampton). A real established starter like Santana would raise payroll in excess of 115+ million. Frankly, it makes me queasy to think ONE 150 MILLION ARM could end up like another Hampton. 20+ million per for an extended contract just sucks. But we need a stud to bring home the bacon like Smoltz and Hudson do. So take a chance and pull the trigger on a deal for major young undamaged goods as a SP unless the farm system’s been hiding a major pitching talent. That talent certainly hasn’t displayed itself in Richmond.

By Praying Hammy

November 26, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Oh JESUS Help the Old Mighty Braves, that are going to have ANOTHER YEAR without Mike Hampton..OH LORD HELP THEM… Help FRANK WREN, to seek for the best of this team in next WINTER METTINGS,STARTER,CF, BENCH, BULLPEN…Oh LORD HELP Him.Oh lord HELP the METS to keep making ridiculous deals that between them they call them “Blockbusters”. Oh LORD HELP THEM. Amen

By BossLady

November 26, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

Ya gotta feel for a person like Hampton with all the pain and suffering. Emotionally it must take its toll on him too. Business deals have gone bad for years in all areas of businesses.

The Braves will be just fine. They did not cut this guy by jumping the gun and losing all the reimbursement from insurance.

I know for certain that you get back what you put out there in this world. Yeah, the Braves will be just fine.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 26, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

is there a doctor in the house?

By bfan54

November 26, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Don Corburleone, for you have expressed my sentiments exactly. BTW would MO VAUGHN and JASON KENDALL qualify as “runners up”?

By skc

November 26, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

Ok have to add this. Hampton is going to pitch himself a cy young. With the luck hes had its time for good fortune.

Now Im hiding my head in sand.

By bruce

November 26, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

Wow Dave: I did not intend to create a ten part to-do list for you, no concept that the quantity was that high, was expressing excitment, anticipation and thanks…. and those still apply even after the friendly gig back at me. On second thought, maybe you were dinging me for asking for 2007 best games two times in the same blog when you anticpate doing it later in the winter… oops slipped the suggestion in again (smiling).

However, wow-o this blog covered a quite a large number of interesting and informative thoughts and facts… and while I did not count them… it was lots of points of your ten list I suppose. Smiling and thanking… ps sorry about your game Saturday night. Bruce

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

Hampton hammy? Some say he should be canned? Would that be a canned hammy?

I’m just peoplein’ around. How does that make you equine bashers feel? Don’t saddle me with derogatory glue factory or French restaurant references please, or hitch me to pony pitchers like James. Smoltz is a horse. Glav and Huddy are too. Jurry and Benn are horses. James is a pony. Nice pony, but pony. Two trick pony, not counting window installation.

Thirsty. I need a drink. I can’t fall asleep. I can pass out but I can’t fall asleep. You try sleeping on all fours.

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

skc Hampton a Cy Young? From where, ebay?

No, Hammy may just get a trophy. Love the guy. Really do. Just bad luck. Bad tendons and hammys, but good guy. Please don’t bash Hammy. It’s not like he wants to be out of the game. He’s a competitor.

It may be on account of those little hooves he’s got at the end of those legs. Not big enough to support him around the track. Jackie Gleason feet. Did you ever see him dance? Nice moves. Horse body, jockey feet.

Don’t get mad. You heard it straight from my mouth. My vet concurs.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 26, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

OW!

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

Wow Bruce, wow-o, you sure do smile and thank a lot. Relax. Be patient. You seem like a nice enough human.

By BosnianBaller

November 26, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Buster Onley reported on espnews that haren and blanton are on the market. haren has 08,09,10 seasons left on his contract at 5 mill per each season.

By Metropolitan Man

November 26, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Thank you rubber leg Hampton. You my friend give fans of the NL east hope that its up for grabs once again. The best thing you ever did was not sign a contract with the METS when you were a free agent. Hey, how are those schools in Colorado treating your kids you greedy snake in the grass!!! Even though you will still get paid,you took from baseball more than you contributed.

By Bo

November 26, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

DOB- great job. I read on si.com that Royals said they were not going to trade DeJesus but would listen to offer for Gathright. What have you heard with your contacts? Still believe we need another starter for insurance. Whats Your Pick for Coach at GT. Just wondering.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 26, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Don’t drink the Mexican water Thirsty Horse. It might make you get hurt like me. You talk too much for a horse anyways. Don’t need you getting hurt and ending up in the hospital with me. I like peace and quiet when laying in the hospital bed 9 months of the year. You would be far too talkative a horse to share a hospital room with. Oh, never mind. What am I talking about? With all the money I have been getting for doing nothing, I don’t have to share a hospital room with anyone, especially not a talkative horse.

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man First, men don’t think or talk the way you talk about Mike. How could you possibly think he was greedy? Look up accident in the dictionary, then look up injury, then look up moron. The first two apply to Hampton. You are the moron.

From this point on you shall be referred to on this blog as the Mentalfrolicken Boy

By Roger

November 26, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

So Hampton will miss the chance to shake off the rust and stretch out this winter. I for one really don’t want to watch him struggle back to form for half the season, assuming he even gets healthy.

It also looks like the Braves are unwilling to fork over the money for another dominant lefty reliever. Here’s an idea: put Hampton in the pen. He doesn’t need to stretch out, and he doesn’t need but 2 pitches. Get him back faster, have a better chance of keeping him healthy, and give the rotation spots to the kids that we need to develop.

We won’t develop another quartet of young guns, the makings of another dynasty, by trotting 2 40-somethings and injury-prone Hampton out to the mound. Gotta give the kids a chance to sink or swim in the majors for a few years.

By David O'Brien

November 26, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

Just went back up to the original blog and reworded some stuff, because what I wrote was a bit confusing and/or misleading. Teams don’t have much reason not to sign Andruw before Saturday, other than just waiting to see how the market shapes up. Because they really don’t have to give up a draft pick for him; the pick is a sandwich pick created between first and second rounds, not a pick forfeited by the signing team. So I just clarified that. Thanks to the dude from Rotoworld for pointing that out.

Same applies for Mahay. Dotel isn’t even a Class B, so no pick.

For any fans of Joy Division or good music from that era, period, you’ve gotta see “Control.” Great movie. Dark, heavy, depresssing at times, but great. And terrific music by Bowie, Iggy, Joy Divisioin, Velvet Underground, etc.

By Metropolitan Man

November 26, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Thirsty Horse: If you heard that sorry speech he gave about wanting good schools for his kids in Colorado when he was a free agent, which turned out to be crap, then you might be able to comprehend. Ok, take the best offer BUT produce. This guy knows he is ripping off MLB. In any workplace you get hurt on the job, get workers comp, that doesnt hurt the company you are contracted out to or the company you work directly for. Show some integrity and figure out a way to earn his keep. And I know you may call yourself a MAN, but the jury is out on that one Horse Manure Guy!!!
Dont blow smoke up the fans rear (you may like that). You going for the money, just say it and go, dont use you kids and family as scapegoats like some other pitchers we know do.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 26, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Chipper played 150 games a year until the Braves traded for me.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 26, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Okay, I’m done making fun of myself for the night. Ya gotta do it to yourself sometimes. It’s too depressing to work that hard to get back to have these things keep happening.

When the day is long and the night, the night is yours alone, When you’re sure you’ve had enough of this life, well hang on Don’t let yourself go, ‘cause everybody cries and everybody hurts sometimes

Sometimes everything is wrong. Now it’s time to sing along When your day is night alone, (hold on, hold on) If you feel like letting go, (hold on) When you think you’ve had too much of this life, well hang on

‘Cause everybody hurts. Take comfort in your friends Everybody hurts. Don’t throw your hand. Oh, no. Don’t throw your hand If you feel like you’re alone, no, no, no, you are not alone

If you’re on your own in this life, the days and nights are long, When you think you’ve had too much of this life to hang on

Well, everybody hurts sometimes, Everybody cries. And everybody hurts sometimes And everybody hurts sometimes. So, hold on, hold on Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on Everybody hurts. You are not alone

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

Because they really don�t have to give up a draft pick for him; the pick is a sandwich pick

BBQ Roast Beef?

you�ve gotta see �Control.� Great movie.

A movie with Bowie, Iggy and Lou Reed et al on the soundtrack it sure ain’t Mary Poppins. Control is on my list. How many stars out of four?

By Robert

November 26, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Hampton - what can be said at this point?

Although I am sure Donk sees no cause for concern, just like he wasnt worried this past spring when Hampton messed himself up

Anyway - in other news - Herm Edwards did his best Bobby Cox impression yesterday with an incredibly stupid call that will probably keep his team out of the playoffs - sound familiar?

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Mentalfrolickin’ Boy

you may call yourself a MAN, but the jury is out

I AM NOT A MAN. I-AM-A-HORSE.

And you are an idiot that not only lacks compassion for human beings and their offspring and the importance for good schools (something you missed out on), you have no clue about how “MLB” baseball or TEAM insurance works. You probably wish you could retract that bit of idiocy, right? Very telling post I’d say.

Tell me, how does it feel to be outwitted by everyone on this blog and now mentally flogged by a horse? Must be a little disconcerting. But then, you are used to meltdowns by now right Mental Metboy?

Come to the post now boy……I have a saddle for you. It’s a small saddle. Should fit you just right.

By Robert

November 26, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

“The Worst Contract in the History of American Sports!”

The one renewed every frickin year for Bobby Cox

Hands down!

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

Hamstrung Hammy, at least you appreciate good REM.

Now stop the Mike bashing. He didn’t plan it or want it. He’ll be OK. So will you. Hope so anyway. Stipe is.

By stew

November 26, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

I don’t get one thing. If Boras said to the Braves Andruw’s gonna get 20 million for five or six years. The Braves offer was only 15 million for 5 years. Now that Andruw’s market value has become more reasonable, why wouldn’t they sign him for less than they offered originally? What makes anyone think that Schafer will ever hit the 36 homers that Andruw is sure to hit next year. It’s like the guy has got leprecy. I guarantee that Tex is walking next year. The Braves will never ante up the 25 million the Yanks or Mets will give him. Ain’t baseball wonderful. Even in a year when the w******* loses ARod, he comes whimpering back to them and again raises the bar so that we can’t sign Tex. Somebody ought to put ARod out of his misery.

By Metropolitan Man

November 26, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

Man, braves blog went to the horses and his mouth needs to be wired. Go suck on a worm….that has an apple attached.
I blog and blab and you my friend will add to my retorts. You must be new or your old handle must have gotten ran off, either way you probably live longer if you stay in the saftey of your basement and not venture out!!!

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

I,really would like to Thank our real Fans on this here blog,You guys make things very interesting sometimes,It is a pleasure to get Home and find a sense of normalcy,after hearing those damned,Tennessee,Whiny@ssers on 104 the fan Radio all damn day!!!If it ain’t crying about Vince Young(who is just another Mike Vick clone might I add),and will NEVER BE AN NFL QB,now it isn’t enough that the Volunkweers,backed into the SEC title game,they now don’t want our Beloved BullDawgs,ranked 4th…Geez,why don’t we just cancel the Superbowl,pull an OJ Simpson,on the Heisman,and crown the whole damned state National Champs,while were at it let’s Strongly Urge the BoSox to move to Nashville,and carry the W.S. trophy there too.Better Yet Tennessee fans EARN SOMETHING for A change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By stew

November 26, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

What so bad about the word w*******? It’s not a curse word. You people must be nuns or something.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 26, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man You need to do a little research. Workman’s Comp was created to limit the liability a company has towards its workers when the company is negligent. It sets caps and limits so the company cannot be sued. Workman’s Comp protects the company, not the worker.

So, can the bull crap. What do you care anyway? Hampton is signed with the Braves, not the Mets….

By chrisklob

November 26, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

stew, when did the Braves offer AJ 5yrs and $15m? What’s been reported here is that Boras floated a proposal to JS and he knew there was no way they’d ever offer anything close to that amount so they never bothered to negotiate with him.

And how are you so sure that he’s “sure” to hit 36 HR next year? He didn’t this past year. And who says that the Braves “need” or expect for Schafer to hit that many anyway. Braves offense is in good shape the way it is, minus the bench. They’re going to score plenty next year. Frankly, I’m more concerned about starting pitching, especially in light of the news that Hampton has had yet another setback.

As for putting Arod out of his misery, a very wise man once said “don’t hate the player, hate the game”. It applies here too. I don’t like what ARod has done to the game but I don’t hold it against him.

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Robert,dude what is your dig with Bobby Cox??? Let me enlighten you on some things, one Bobby Cox is a Future Hall of Famer,You sir are Nothing,never have been,never will be. second Bobby Cox,is at this point and time,THE BEST MANAGER in Baseball!!!You sir,are still Nothing,that’s right never have been,never will be… Thirdly,Every Major Leaguer (with the exception,of maybe Kenny Lofton)either,loves playing,for Bobby Cox,or has a strong Desire to play for Bobby Cox… You Sir,You guessed it,That’s right.STILL NOTHING!!!

Two Tickets,to see the Braves=85.00 Two Cokes,and Two dogs=26.00 Seeing Bobby’s Hoof planted in Robot’s @ss=Priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!

By chrisklob

November 26, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

joebrave, umm, you weren’t quite clear in your last post. How do you really feel about Tennessee? :-)

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Now on to some Hot Stove action.Ahhhhh,my favorite time of the year!!!

Maybe,Oakland will get desperate and really want Lillibridge, enough to give up Blanton….

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

Mentalfrolickin’ Boy

I blog and blab - Yes you do. We agree at last.

stay in the saftey of your basement

Too bad you didn’t get some Hampton spelling safty edumacation, hungh?

Now, here’s what’s really funny: You are on late night Bravesblog getting your arse handed to you by a horse. The guys back at the Bravesbarn are going to get a kick out of this. But it was too easy. Maybe you could find some Mentally limited Metboys back at your own Met blog, or did that melt down too?

By chrisklob

November 26, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

joebrave, don’t both with Robert. Insulting BC is all he knows. In many ways, he’s kind of like Dustin Hoffman’s character in Rainman, except Robert is even more limited in his range of speaking and understanding. “Robot” is actually a very good description of him.

I’m sure he’s an excellent driver though.

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

Klob,I really like,Nashville,the place has grown on me.some of the local food is delectable,However,those fans:dude,I thought Mutts fans were big babies…But them Titans,and Vols fans,SHEESH,everything,should be Gold Plated,and handed to them on a Platter!!!!!!

You really,should give those folks a listen sometime!!!

By chrisklob

November 26, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Interesting football game tonight. We’ve seen approx. 59 minutes of scoreless football. When was the last time that happened? The field is a mess due to heavy rains and a fresh layer of grass having just been laid on Saturday on top of the old grass.

Ricky Williams made his triumphant return tonight and promptly “got hurt” after five or six carries. My guess is that the sight of all that fresh grass was too overwhelming for him!

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

I wonder,if someone will teach Omar Minaya the Heimlich Manuever at the winter Meetings????He better do something to stop the CHOKING!!!!!!!

By joebrave

November 26, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

Here is a comment from one of those,Tennessee Babies.

We are playing,in Our conference Championship,but Georgia has the chance to play for the National Title.Whaaaaaaa,why,why,why….

I can answer that one very simply,Don’t Lose To Alabama,and Florida!!!!!! They backed into the title game,period,and I hope LSU beats He11 out of Em.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 26, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

ouch

By Wayne in Utah

November 26, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

If there were every any doubt, it is now official: Robert and Jared are BOTH idiots!

BTW, why all the indignation against Mike Hampton. As I recall, anyone on here with half a brain are saying that the Braves shouldn’t count on Hampton for anything, and if they get something, it is a bonus.

Now that he is hurt, all we hear is the moaning and crying. What did you guys expect????

Now, Lillibridge for Blanton??? I don’t know, but I would give Lillibridge and Reyes for Haren though.

And as for Gaithright, I would take a pass on him. I think our big three rookies would be a better bet for CF.

By Greg

November 26, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

We should start a pool. Will Mike Hampton throw a single pitch for the Braves this year? If he does, how many pitches will he throw. I’d say the smart money is on zero to 100. Hampton clearly is a steroid case. He was supposed to be such an athletic guy, but he can’t stay healthy. Looks to me like the steroid side effects ended his career. $15 million for watching baseball games from the bench. Nice work if you can get it.

By chrisklob

November 26, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

If there were every any doubt, it is now official: Robert and Jared are BOTH idiots!

Don’t limit us to just those two. There are a few others that are just as deserving of that tag also!

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

My thirst is quenched for the evening. The regulars are back and all is well.

If the Mentalfrolikin’ Boy shows up don’t be too hard on him. He’s been rode hard and put up wet. Don’t want two Met-meltdowns in one year.

By Thirsty Horse

November 26, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

Georgia has the chance to play for the National Title.

Clip clop clip clop. Woof Woof Woof!!!! Thirsty Horse likes those Hungry Dawgs.

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

I see that Terrence is at it again. I gotta tell you folks, I have my little spreadsheet with my Braves roster, and the other sheets with possible free agents, and a couple of other sheets with trade prospects and middle infield prospects.

What I have obviously forgot to do is to have a column for the players race. Dumb me, I guess I am as guilty as the Braves and the Astros, in not making sure I have the proper proportion of differing players on my “mock” roster.

The more I think of it, I think we should get that Japanese guy, “F*******” “Dome”, so we can have our Japanese quota.

Come on Terrence, go report some real sports.

Just so long as we don’t get too many religious centerfielders, then we will be OK.

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

What’s Terrence going to do when Willie Harris gets cut next spring?

By Wide Right

November 27, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I read that Liberty Media was going to increase payroll when needed. Now, if Hampton’s contract ends after next season…wouldnt it make sense for the Braves to go after one more ace for this season? Maybe Eric Bedard or Haren. I can’t see a better time to try and get someone like that. We know that Hampton won’t be available for much of ‘08. Seems like if Liberty was really serious about raising payroll it would make sense to go after one more ace for ‘08, knowing that cutting ties with Hampton in the following year will free up payroll for a long-term deal for that ace.

By joebrave

November 27, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

Thirsty horse,would You give Terrence Moore,a ride,Buck him off,and Kick that Sonsabitch in the face…

How in the He11 does this @sshole keep his job???? As my old Pappy used to say,That Boy,is about as useless,as t** on a boar hog!!!!!!!

By fastasballs

November 27, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

Another year & another Hampton injury. At least his arm didn’t fall off. Regardless this is the LAST year we have to put up with that situation. I wish him the best & hope he can give the Braves some innings this year, but GOOD GRIEF, enough is enough!

On to some football. Any of you Dawgs going to make the trip to Miami for the Orange Bowl? I’m waiting on the Hokies to punch their ticket after they kick BC’s azz on Saturday. What’s your take on a rematch from last year’s Peach Bowl?

UGA, VT, Missouri & WVU are playing the best ball in the country right now IMO. Too bad a 8 or 16 team playoff can’t be agreed upon. It would put March Madness to shame.

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this

In Websters dictionary under the definition of snakebit: “Mike Hampton’s picture”

By geauxbraves2000

November 27, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

Well, I for one was not counting on Hampton at all this year, so this doesn’t surprise me a bit.

Also, I am not at all giddy about this pitching staff. I see 2006 all over again. Hopefully I’m wrong. I hear Santana may be available. Oh, what’s that, not a snowballs chance in a fire the Braves trade for him. Oh yeah, the Braves have these Cy Young candidates fighting for rotation spots, I forgot. Sure wouldn’t want to complete the starting 5 with someone like Santana.

Geaux Braves!!

By BossLady

November 27, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this

Why would anybody want to pounce on Michael Vick on this blog? This young man has ruined his life and a sweet career. He had the Owner in his pocket, something most players never accomplish. A sad case if I ever saw one when a young man who has everything going for him does not seperate himself from the sh!t in his past. His boys, road dogs or whatever stuck it to him, too.

We as sports fans are not the judges, jurors and executioners of these things.

I wish Mike Hampton and Mike Vick the best.

All I want is to see the Braves and Falcons do well. I am not gonna spend my time, words and energy demeaning them for their misfortunes.

Bobby Cox is a good manager, but, he gives a player too much benefit of the doubt. He is not a cut-throat and that is a good thing. If he were to ever be that way it would not be a good fit in the Deep South.

My greatest fear is that the Braves replace Cox with a you know what. This is our way down here to give players a decent opportunity.

Terence is a jackass and whoever reads and listen to him is also not dealing with all the cards.

DOB has been mentioned in the Braves Vent. Why would anybody want to vent about him when he is out there seeking and giving us information?

I just wish that DeKalb County would keep their criminals out of Douglas County!!!!!!!

By GermanBravesFan

November 27, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

Geauxbraves2000: what are the Braves supposed to pay Santana with? He’ll command $20 million per year after this season. He has a the right to veto ANY trade and people speculate he will veto any trade to a team that cannot/won’t sign him long-term.

Well, yes, it’s a snowball’s chance in a fire that the Braves will trade for Santana.

By mr baseball

November 27, 2007 1:31 AM | Link to this

Instead of spending so much time ragging on our perpetually injured lefty pitcher with the ridiculous contract, why not subject the collective barbs of the blog where it’s merited — the penny pinchers who annually leave the Braves with sub-standard bullpens.

Why in the world would the Braves not offer arbitration to Mahay? Because he might get $750K or — hold your breath — $1 million more than the Braves think he is worth in their own little universe, which has little relation to the real world outside Atlanta. When given the choice of spending an extra million or so on a quality reliever as opposed to going with someone else’s reject, the Braves will opt for the cheaper alternative EVERY STINKING TIME.

Over the 14 years of playoffs, how many times did the Braves lose close games late because of lack of bullpen depth? And perhaps the prime reason for the end to the playoff run was the utter demise of the bullpen in ‘06. Schuerholz always thought he was smarter than every other GM and refused to shell out the necessary money for the back of bullpen. Until ‘06, it never kept the team out of the playoffs, but we’ll never know whether the Braves could have added a few more Series titles if the genius ex-Gm wasn’t such a tightwad when it came to building a bullpen.

McBride’s gone, Startup’s gone, Ledezma weas a disaster, Mahay’s probably gone & Gonzalez is likely useless this season. If Ring struggles with his control, the Braves will be without a dependable lefty in the bullpen (no sweat, there’s always Tom Martin or Burger King).

And we haven’t even gotten to the question of what do the Braves do if Soriano can’t cut it as a closer? But why bother ourselves with such trivialities when there’s always Mike Hampton to kick around or fantasy trades for some unattainable starter to be concocted?

By phiz50

November 27, 2007 1:37 AM | Link to this

Jersey Gil: Thanks for the name of the pitcher Eric Cordier. Do you know how his recovery from TJ surgery is going? He had a lot of promise at one point.

By DJ

November 27, 2007 1:45 AM | Link to this

Hampton should be the least of our concerns. Locking up Frenchy and Texiera should be priority. With a little fine tuning, the Braves can win this year. But its time the Braves step up and start locking guys up so they don’t blossom in some other city.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 27, 2007 1:48 AM | Link to this

Hampton injured ? Say it ain’t so , Joe. Well , this will leave the Braves in no mood to be trading any pitching until at least halfway through spring training.

If Mark Bowman’s latest article is accurate and the Braves think that 3.5 million a season is to much for Ron Mahay. I have to question the commitment that this organization has to building a competitive team.

Seriously , The Braves paid Craig Wilson , Chris Woodward and Mark Redman a combined 3.6 million last season after they were pulled off the scrap heap. Ron Mahay was part of a seven player trade that cost the Braves five prospects.

Where is the value in trading all those prospects and not keeping a very important left handed set up man that the Braves almost certainly cannot replace.

After all , this is a team with millions to spend , right ?

By mike

November 27, 2007 2:12 AM | Link to this

Coach, I agree with you 100 percent. Resigning Mahay is critical. Finding dependable lefties with experience in the bullpen is not an easy task and with the Braves saying they have money to spare they should make Mahay a fair offer. I think a 2yr deal for 6 million is fair but 7 million over 2yrs is manageable I think. They probably have both Hampton and Glavine’s salary’s comming off the books in 09 so thats at least 16mil right there. I think they are making too much out of finding an “experienced” backup shortstop. Just use Lillibridge in a superutility role and have Prado as a backup. That would probably save 2 million and would probably give them better production. You’re right about Craig Wilson and Woodard, doesnt make sense that they would spend over 3 mill on them for virtually no production but don’t want to spend that on a reliable middle relief lefty? Frank Wren has made very good, sensible moves so far. I hope he continues it by spending money on important needs such as bullpen help.

By GermanBravesFan

November 27, 2007 2:14 AM | Link to this

Coach: I agree. It always seems like the Braves try to save money when it comes to putting together a bullpen. They got their closer, so now go ahead and spend some money on Mahay to be the set-up guy. Gonzalez won’t come back until July and there is no guarantee he’ll be effective right away.

Also: didn’t the new owners state that they’ll increase payroll if that means the Braves will be competitive? Well, wouldn’t a strong bullpen be one basic component of a championship caliber team?

By Tony C.

November 27, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this

OF COURSE Mike Hampton’s hurt already!

By GermanBravesFan

November 27, 2007 2:25 AM | Link to this

Let’s not over-react about Mike Hampton’s injury. It’s his thigh - not his arm! He’ll be alright come spring training!

By BabyGoatEater

November 27, 2007 3:35 AM | Link to this

We need another relief pitcher…… We need another starting pitcher…..

seems these are the same things every team is saying.

stop talking, just do….give Mayhay his money Wren.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 27, 2007 5:51 AM | Link to this

anyone see my ligaments laying about?

By ncscoots

November 27, 2007 6:41 AM | Link to this

Jeez, you would think from the blog that a pulled hamstring was a career-threatening injury, LOL. I’m relatively certain that injury will be healed by March. :-)

The whole idea for Hampton pitching in the winter leagues was to (hopefully) reduce the Braves’ level of uncertainty about him. Didn’t work out, but the team is no worse off in that respect than they were two weeks ago.

Hampton is now in the same situation as if he were a rookie heading into spring training. Lots of potential, but you won’t know until you actually see him work. And, as with any rookie, if it works out, great; otherwise, next plan.

By JohnGTFan

November 27, 2007 6:45 AM | Link to this

People need to remember something…Atlanta’s increased payroll CANNOT be used for bringing in free agents or trading for new contracts. Hudson, Tex, Smoltz, etc etc all have raises this season that need to be paid.

And someone said Tennessee backed into the SEC Championship game??? LOL ummm…if UGA had shown up for the game against them, then they would be there. I agree, UGA is playing great football..and I truly can’t stand them, but they are playing great. But can’t blame the system for them not playing in the SEC championship game…have to take care of your own business.

By ssiscribe

November 27, 2007 6:56 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens, as I get ready to get on that big ol’ jet airliner tonight and wing my way West for a couple of days of fun in Vegas.

While I’m there, I don’t think I’m going to bet on Mike Hampton winning the 2008 Cy Young Award.

I totally understand the frustration of Braves Nation, but folks, it’s his hamstring, not his arm. Relax just a bit. There is NO WAY you can count on Hampton for anything until he actually comes back and pitches consistently — and remains healthy — at the major league level.

But a hamstring pull is just that, and one that will take a few weeks to heal. Therefore, no pitching for him in the Mexican League. By the time this heals, it’s late December, the league is done and Hampton’s got a good month and a half before the gates open at Lake Buena Vista.

It stinks for Hampton; you know he’s got to be the most frustrated one of all. He takes a lot of shots on here, and again, I understand the frustration from fans. But Hampton, for all the money he makes, is one of those guys who truly wants to be on the field. Don’t you think it hurt him the past two years to sit there and watch the Braves fall short, knowing he could be the difference in third place and the playoffs if his body didn’t fail him?

Anyway, prayers to Sean Taylor’s family this morning. Wow. Dude was a heck of a player. Sad news.

Off to get things done before I get outta here. Enjoy the rest of your week, denizens.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By nOLIE

November 27, 2007 7:24 AM | Link to this

Coach: I agree. It always seems like the Braves try to save money when it comes to putting together a bullpen

yeah they do, but they have a reason too kinda. throwing money at relievers does not guarantee an effective pen. these guys are relievers for a reason, and that reason is that they aren’t very good pitchers . and that mostly includes being unreliable from year to year. Mahay has mostly been good, but he’s had some really terrible years too. Remember a few years ago when they had such a great pen? The next season most of those guys were not nearly as effective. Three years is a long time in the life of a reliever. My guess is that is as important or more so that the actual amount per year. I think Mahay COULD be a smart move, but they seem to think that the odds are not that much worse with cheaper guys. and who’s to say that they are wrong. Most of them are good one year and poor the next. kinda a crap shoot for the most part, so why pay too much?

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 27, 2007 7:32 AM | Link to this

Damn. There go my tendons rolling down the hill.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 27, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

Seen it many times. buyer’s regret in reverse. Not signing Mahay for a “Few Dollars More” will cause the Braves much consternation when they realize they are a lefty short in the bullpen.

I hate to pick on Hampton but it is true he is showing some signs of steroid use. Then again, I used to pull hamstrings all the time and the only thing I “juiced” on was Minute Maid….

By ncscoots

November 27, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

what are the Braves supposed to pay Santana with? He�ll command $20 million per year after this season.

So what? What do you think Peavey, Bedard, Lackey, Penny, etc., are going to command when THEY hit free agency in a year or two? What about Hudson when his contract runs out? Are you saying the Braves can’t afford the price of ANY top-tier ace at the front of the staff?

Fans were shocked at the first $10MM contract, too, “oh, woe, no player is worth THAT kind of money!”. The Twins just offered $18MM+ for five years, and they are the supposed small-market model. The marketplace is the marketplace, so if starting pitching is overvalued (in fans’ opinions), well, that’s life.

Santana and the Twins were about $40MM apart on their numbers; split the difference, and Santana ends up with 5/$105MM. That’s not an outrageous price.

Moot, though, from the Braves’ standpoint, because I don’t think they could put together a trade package attractive enough for the Twins to make the deal. It’s more likely that the Braves will make a run at FA pitchers in the next year or two, IMO.

But they are going to pay SOMEBODY Santana-like money at some point. Just the nature of the beast.

By Hamstrung Hammy Hampton

November 27, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

I hate to pick on Hampton but it is true he is showing some signs of steroid use.

Gil, that hurt my cornea reading that. Another two weeks on the DL. Thank you. Say something like that again and my retina might detach.

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Scoots

If the Braves don’t resign Tex, they better ink one of Bedard or Peavy after 2009. They have to spend cash at some point, and there should be at least 30 million to spend after 2009, if not more.

By cardvol

November 27, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

How come the Braves have 41 players on the 40-man roster? I’m pretty sure it would have to be at 40 or below before the Rule 5 draft.

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this

Mike Hampton is not to be trusted. What a shame.

Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James and Jurrjens should be a solid rotation.

Not really sure why the Braves won’t at least explore the idea of trading for Dan Haren. I guess because we traded 5 prospects for Tex……

I guess we’ll just have to go with what we have, but I really do expect the Mets to acquire either Santana, Haren, or Blanton. Most likely Haren.

By armesjr

November 27, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

Why exactly are there talks about us going after Coco Crisp and David DeJesus? Both of these guys hit around .260 last year, and neither of them have any power. They both are quick and do play center well. The way i see it, is that neither of theses two guys are a significant upgrade over the three potential CF’s we have now. Why waste a couple million dollars on them? This money can be spent in other places (bullpen or extensions for Francouer and Teixiera). They should start out with Anderson in CF, he is fast and can play defense, and as along as he hits around .250-.260ish, your basically getting a David Dejesus or Coco Crisp at a much cheaper price. He put up good offensive numbers in Houston, granted it was only 20 something games which doesn’t mean anything, but at least their is potential. If he doesn’t work out, try Blanco and then bring up Schafer sometime after the break.
Also i have a feeling Francouer is going to put up some huge numbers this year. He has improved every year he has played, and i think this year he makes the jump from good to great. We need to lock him up long term now so we can afford him.

By Salty

November 27, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

sscribe Why not plunk a few buck$ down on Hampton’s Cy chances. Heck, $10 will probably get you…retirement!
:-)

By Anders

November 27, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

DOB The Yanks are now publicly stating, through Boy George ( my moniker for Steinbrenner’s son -either one) that they’re actually working on a possible Santana deal. Not a good sign for anyone else interested in Santana as once the Yanks are in they either get what they want or drive the price up to ridiculous levels. Anyway, should they trade Cabrera in the deal I could see Boras making a one year incentive laden deal for Andruw Jones with the Yanks. The Yanks learned last year that Damon can’t play center full time anymore. Boras would save a little face with the Yanks and if Andruw has to take a one year deal why not take it in the biggest center field stage in the world on a team where all you have to do is show up and the oppurtunities to shine abound? He could bat 6th or 7th on that team and still hit 30HR’s and knock in 115 runs. Next year he comes out again in a less crowded CF market with better numbers or just re-ups with the Yanks for some of the Giambi $21mil that goes away.

Just my two cents.

By rich brave

November 27, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Hello sports fans. Mister consistancy here - AGAIN!

Once more like I have since October. Sign a major talent as a #1 SP this year. Worry about Tex NEXT year. Add a solid CF so you have no donut holes in the line-up and kick-a@@!! The club’s only two major players and a bench away from a division win. Give Cox a chance to bring it home. With the way this organization can evaluate personnel 115+ payroll gets it done.

GIL: Interesting take on Hampton’s arm and “bleed out.” Well, off for another cardiac cath. See you in a few or the funny papers depending on what’s found.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

Oh! The Irony!!!! I absolutely love the schizoid nature of this blog and the Denizens, thereof. Hampton’s $48 million in salary is widely considered to be an atrocious deal, even though other teams paid most of his salary all of these years. Yes, we lost our shirts and couldn’t replace Hampton because of the amount of money he made, but let’s trade Lord knows how many prospects for Johann Santana (who, BTW, just turned down a four year, $20 million offer from the Twins) and pay him an inordinate amount of money with a long term contract.

Does anyone here realize that a contract like that to Santana, were he to be injured like Hampton, would be a far worse hinderance to the Braves’s contract situation?

There has been talk of a contract of upwards of $150 mentioned in reference to Santana. If $48 million is a problem, even with insurance payments of 40-60 %, just what would be the ramifications of eating more than $100 million? Time to think a bit here. Like Salty says-maybe it would be more fiscally responsible to put that ten bucks down on Hampton’s Cy Young chances.

By Braveheart

November 27, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Salty, stop joshing around with Scribe.

By Rod

November 27, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Personally, I’m optimistic about Jair Jurrjens. I know everyone wants another starter for our rotation, but remember that other young flame thrower we got from Detroit. What was his name? Oh yes, now I remember. John Smoltz. Yeah, he did ok for himself.

The truth is, our rotation is getting older. That can’t be denied, but neither can the fact that we have some impressive young guns coming up. Glavine will most likely do wonders for Chuck James and Jo Jo, and everything I hear on Jurrjens is good stuff.

About CF, idk. There are options out there for us. Someone mentioned getting Chone Figgins. I think the Angels would trade him, seeing how we almost got him last year before sending LaRoche to Pitt. He could play CF, or really anywhere u wanted him to play, and be an awesome leadoff guy.

DOB how good is this kid that we got from Houston?

By 22oz

November 27, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Hey, there’s no comments section on Terence Moore’s latest article! I wanted to commend him on doing such a good job, and tell him how dead-on he is.

By wjones

November 27, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

I’m just wondering if the Hampton deal, no matter how well the Braves got other teams to pay for the bulk of it, has made the Braves gun-shy in the free agent market, particularly pitchers. I am including blockbuster deals in that as well. Think about it. Hampton, regardless of his troubles in Colorado, was a superb athlete, a gritty competitor, and as healthy as a horse. Under the supervision of the greatest pitching coach in the history of the world he went down as hasn’t yet come back up. That has to be a bit scary, from the Braves’ perspective. The Hudson deal had already been done prior to the Hudson injury, and he didn’t really do what they thought until this year. The only significant deal since then has been Tex, and he is an iron man first baseman, only 27, and they still have not committed long-term dollars to him. Just food for thought.

By ncscoots

November 27, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

But, Lew, the injury risk is there with any pitcher and any contract. What are the ramifications of Hudson going down this year? He gets a big raise this year into 8 figures. Braves would have to eat a couple of years of that money, too, wouldn’t they? That just goes with the territory…you buys your ticket and you takes your chances.

By Bryan

November 27, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Dave,

have you heard the new band of horses?

they moved back from seattle to Charleston and the album captures the essence of longing in the strange south that early REM spent a lot of time work with.

Any fan of fables, reckoning, or life’s rich pageant, would like that cd.

By Drummerdad

November 27, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Stew, Don’t blame A-Rod as much as the Steinbrenners. They’ve been doing this to baseball since 1976. Remember “Catfish” Hunter?

By 22oz

November 27, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

This setback by Hampton pretty much guarantees that Chuck won’t be traded, so I guess there’s one less subject to be debated.

The good news is that its not his arm, but bleeding in the leg doesn’t sound good either. Although, I’m not a doctor, and haven’t stayed at any Holiday Inn Expresses recently. My guess would be that IF Hampton makes it through spring training, IF, then he starts the season in AAA to make sure he’s completely good to go.

By NRBQ

November 27, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

DOB—Music Alert

Great program on Ga. Public Television last night:

The Best of the Johnny Cash show, from the late 60’s / early 70’s.

Dylan, Joni Mitchell (duet with Johnny on Long Black Veil), Neil Young (acoustic Needle and the Damage Done), Derek and the Dominoes (post-Duane), James Taylor, Carl Perkins (with Clapton and Johnny on Matchbox), CCR (Bad Moon Risin”), Jerry Lee Lewis, and more.

Way cool all-live performances. They’re offering the DVD for new pledges, so it’s probably available elsewhere.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

22 Oz-Terence Moore has cried wolf (or Racist, as the case may be) so many times that most of us just ignore him. Pretty good idea in my book. The guy is a one trick pony and the trick got old some time ago. He is certainly welcome to his point of view, but we don’t have to agree with it or keep reading the same old stuff-ad nauseum.

WJones-I doubt that the Hampton deal turned the Braves off on signing free agents- they didn’t get him as a free agent, but from a trade. The gun shy part probably came from a stagnant salary cap that precluded spending that kind of money.

SCoots-That’s a somewhat disingenuous statement, coming from you. Of course there is always the potential for injury-it is why we have insurance policies. However, my point was the way on one hand we decry the Hampton situation as a foolish waste of money and on the other hand, clamor to sign another outrageous contract, that could very well lead to the same results-all for a player who is on the field once every five days. Somewhat schizoid, n’est ce pas?

I wouldn’t mind seeing the kids perform this year. Let them compete and see what they can do. I just don’t understand this “It’s now or never” philosophy. I happen to think that with young pitchers like Reyes, Jurrjens and some like Rohrbough, Hansen and others coming up, we will have a good, if not great rotation. The key is letting them develop and giving them a chance to succeed. Mortgaging the future is NOT the way to go. Use the extra millions to sign Tex and Francoeur long term. See if you can trade for Haren or Blanton, but trading for and then paying a ridiculous amount for someone like Santana, who wasn’t overly impressive last year is absurd. $150 million for a long term deal? I don’t think so.

Salaries are escalating to the point of absurdity and will until teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels can be reined in. I don’t know how to do this, but if there is ever to be financial equity in MLB, it damn well has to be done. There is just way too much of a gap between high and low salary ranges, that not even all the TV revenue and the revenue sharing are really making much of a difference. Do you really see Kansas City, Tampa Bay or the Pirates winning anything in the near future? I sure as hell don’t.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 27, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Lord (or the deity of your choice) knows I would hate to be the cause of blindness to anyone participating on the blog. I have been a big supported of Hampton and do not mean to sully his reputation, it is just the history fits. I doubt he was or has been involved to the degree of indulgence as Barry Baroid or some of the other big name abusers and many of the supplements used were not considered illegal for a long time.

Often the muscle mass increases but the bone density does not. This often results in tears where the tendons insert into the bone. Human growth hormones are a bit different in they usually enhance performance without the huge increase in muscle mass. Most notably increased stamina, a little like packed red blood cells.

As for the bleed into the muscle reference made earlier, if you want to know what that looks like, think back to what John Smoltz’s shoulder looked like following the game he pitched against the Astros back in ‘05.

In the meantime, it is an injury that will heal given time and rest. We will see if Mike can come back to be the whole package. I am encouraged that it is not his arm.

Rich brave take care of the old ticker…… good luck on you CC today.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 27, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

And yes Lew, there are many on the blog that want it both ways. I would bet though their crystal ball is just as fuzzy as mine.

No one is going to be able to compete with the New Yorks, Bostons and L.As as far as money is concerned so everyone else in the league just has to be a little smarter. Of course there are a few cheapskate owners who balance them out but they just give ammunition to the idea of a salary cap for all of baseball. Not only should there be a maximum but also a minimum payroll excluding management’s compensation.

By DAP

November 27, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

i want to see the braves be as good of a team as they can possibly be in ‘08. i feel like there is one big piece and a few small pieces that will really help what is already a good baseball team.

A starting pitcher. if i knew hampton was coming back, then this wouldnt be on the list, but to make it in the playoffs, it would make me feel alot better to have one more young, dominant pitcher. its to bad that this just wont happen, because wren is done looking. ill trust his judgement, that there arent any good moves that make sense out there. to make a deal, it would have to be a TOP pitcher, not just some arm for the sake of getting one.
Bullpen! I think our bullpen is really good with soriano as closer and moylan in there carving guys up. i think bennet will make a good long reliever, and the young guys last year, Acosta and ascanio looked really awesome. however, i really think a guys like mahay ties it all together. hes and experienced vet who can be used as situational lefty, but who is also versatile enough to not be limited to that. i think with such a young bullpen, mahay would be a goos guy to have. i think the braves should definetly give him a competitive offer.
bench…i think this part is pretty good by filling it with guys from within, but like the bullpen, i think it needs one big pieces to solidify it, and tie it together. a vet who can play a few positions and HIT off the bench is who we need. a guy like conine would be wonderful. we need some experience and guys who know how to win. i think the backup SS job should go to a kid (lillibridge), and we need to get a good veteran pinch hitter for the bench.

if we do these things, i think we have made the subtle changes that make us ALOT better. to win in the playoffs, you need depth.

By nOLIE

November 27, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Interesting Article By Lederer in BaseballAnalysts.com on pitching. Hope this isn’t against board rules

Comparing K/100 Pitches with K/9 IP By Rich Lederer All of us like pitchers who can rack up strikeouts. There is no argument between statheads and the scouting community over the value of missing bats. In a nutshell, Ks are the out of choice. The more, the merrier.

We also know that pitch counts are important. The fewer, the better. As such, it seems logical that combining high strikeout and low pitch totals is a recipe for success. In February 2006, I stated, “The best way to measure such effectiveness is via K/100 pitches.” The formula is (strikeouts divided by total pitches) x 100.

In addition, strikeouts per pitch has a stronger correlation to runs allowed than strikeouts per inning or strikeouts per batter faced. The technical aspects of these measurements were explained in Strikeout Proficiency (Part Two).

Let’s take a look at the K/100P rankings as compared to K/9 IP. (For context, among those who qualified for the ERA title, the average starter threw approximately 100 pitches and completed 6 1/3 innings. The average number of K/100 pitches was 4.66.)

Top 10 K/100 Pitches

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk
Erik Bedard 182.0 221 2946 7.50 10.93 1 Johan Santana 219.0 235 3345 7.03 9.66 4 Jake Peavy 223.3 240 3610 6.65 9.67 3 A.J. Burnett 165.7 176 2649 6.64 9.56 5 Scott Kazmir 206.7 239 3609 6.62 10.41 2 John Smoltz 205.7 197 3062 6.43 8.62 12 Cole Hamels 183.3 177 2791 6.34 8.69 10 Josh Beckett 200.7 194 3100 6.26 8.70 9 Javier Vazquez 216.7 213 3465 6.15 8.85 6 Aaron Harang 231.6 218 3591 6.07 8.47 14 Erik Bedard was #1 in both K/100P and K/9. With respect to strikeouts, the lefthander had a fantastic season. He blew away the field, averaging about 0.50 higher than the closest pursuer in both measurements. Bedard, who missed the final month with a strained right oblique, was a leading candidate for the AL Cy Young Award as late as August. Signed through 2009, the 28-year-old is one of the most valuable pitching properties in baseball.

Scott Kazmir ranks second in K/9 but only fifth in K/100P. John Smoltz jumps from 12th in K/9 to sixth in K/100P. Smoltz proved his proficiency by ranking among the leaders in all strikeout measurements while also placing among the leaders in throwing the fewest pitches per plate appearance (3.60) and inning (14.9). Smoltzie, in fact, was the only pitcher who struck out at least eight batters per nine innings and ranked among the top half in fewest P/PA � and, get this, he was 10th in the latter category.

Cole Hamels, who threw the second fewest pitches per plate appearance among those with eight or more Ks per nine, goes from 10th in K/9 to seventh in K/100P. Aaron Harang, another strike thrower, also fares better in K/100P than K/9.

11-20 K/100P

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk Rich Hill 195.0 183 3070 5.96 8.45 15 C.C. Sabathia 241.0 209 3581 5.84 7.80 17 James Shields 215.0 184 3177 5.79 7.70 21 Chris Young 173.0 167 2884 5.79 8.69 11 Daisuke Matsuzaka 204.7 201 3480 5.78 8.84 8 Oliver Perez 177.0 174 3015 5.77 8.85 7 Ian Snell 208.0 177 3125 5.66 7.66 22 Brandon Webb 236.3 194 3437 5.64 7.39 26 John Maine 191.0 180 3270 5.50 8.48 13 Felix Hernandez 190.3 165 3005 5.49 7.80 18 James Shields leaps from 21st in K/9 to 13th in K/100P. The Tampa Bay righthander threw the sixth fewest pitches per inning (14.9), trailing only Brandon Webb, Fausto Carmona, Paul Byrd, Roy Halladay, and C.C. Sabathia. Shields looks like the real deal. He has good stuff (including one of the best changeups in the game) and possesses a lot of polish for a second-year pitcher. If Shields has a weakness, it’s in the number of home runs he has allowed thus far.

Oliver Perez and Diasuke Matsuzaka fall from seventh and eighth in K/9 to 16th and 15th, respectively, in K/100P. High pitch counts and walks are the downfall in both cases. Ian Snell is the sleeper in this group. He may be one of those undersized righthanders, but the facts are that Snell throws hard and has pretty good command of his fastball and slider.

21-30 K/100P

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk Justin Verlander 201.7 183 3354 5.46 8.17 16 Ted Lilly 207.0 174 3240 5.37 7.57 24 Dustin McGowan 169.7 144 2702 5.33 7.64 23 Jeremy Bonderman 174.3 145 2725 5.32 7.49 25 Dan Haren 222.7 192 3635 5.28 7.76 20 John Lackey 224.0 179 3396 5.27 7.19 31 Kelvim Escobar 195.7 160 3041 5.26 7.36 28 Wandy Rodriguez 182.7 158 3036 5.20 7.78 19 Derek Lowe 199.3 147 3020 4.87 6.64 39 Matt Cain 200.0 163 3351 4.86 7.34 29 There are a number of good, young righthanders in the group above. Justin Verlander improved his strikeout rate markedly in 2007, lifting his K/100P from 4.17 to 5.46 and his K/9 from 6.00 to 8.17. With one of the best fastballs in baseball, Verlander has greatness written all over him. There’s a lot to like about Dustin McGowan, Jeremy Bonderman, Dan Haren, John Lackey, Kelvim Escobar, and Matt Cain, too. The latter pitched in extreme tough luck last season (as his 7-16 record and 3.65 ERA would indicate), ranking second-to-last in run support with 3.51 RS/9.

Derek Lowe is an interesting example of a pitcher who looks much better when viewed through the prism of K/100P (29th in the majors) rather than K/9 (39th). His strikeout rate was actually the highest its been since he became a full-time starter in 2002. The 34-year-old veteran sinkerballer throws strikes and induces more groundballs than any other starting pitcher.

31-40 K/100P

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk Boof Bonser 173.0 136 2823 4.82 7.08 32 Carlos Zambrano 216.3 177 3692 4.79 7.36 27 Jeff Francis 215.3 165 3485 4.73 6.90 34 Chad Gaudin 199.3 154 3293 4.68 6.95 33 Roy Oswalt 212.0 154 3303 4.66 6.54 40 Daniel Cabrera 204.3 166 3565 4.66 7.31 30 Jeremy Guthrie 175.3 123 2677 4.59 6.31 46 Bronson Arroyo 210.7 156 3432 4.55 6.66 38 David Bush 186.3 134 2979 4.50 6.47 42 Matt Belisle 177.7 125 2793 4.48 6.33 45 Like many others who walk more than their fair share, Carlos Zambrano’s K/100P ranking slips a bit as compared to his K/9. On the other hand, strike throwers Jeremy Guthrie and Matt Belisle moved up a number of spots.

41-50 K/100P

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk Fausto Carmona 215.0 137 3137 4.37 5.73 55 Gil Meche 216.0 156 3579 4.36 6.50 41 Scott Olsen 176.7 133 3060 4.35 6.78 35 Kip Wells 162.7 122 2812 4.34 6.75 36 Doug Davis 192.7 144 3356 4.29 6.73 37 Adam Wainwright 202.0 136 3175 4.28 6.06 48 Jamie Moyer 199.3 133 3148 4.22 6.01 51 Brad Penny 208.0 135 3227 4.18 5.84 54 Dontrelle Willis 205.3 146 3491 4.18 6.40 44 Roy Halladay 225.3 139 3330 4.17 5.55 57 The above pitchers rank in the bottom half of all qualified starters in K/100P. The best performers, like Fausto Carmona, Brad Penny, and Roy Halladay, throw strikes and/or induce an inordinate number of groundballs. Pitchers can succeed with K/100P over 4.00. However, it becomes much more problematic when the rate drops below this threshold.

51-60 K/100P

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk Tim Hudson 224.3 132 3165 4.17 5.30 62 Kevin Millwood 172.7 123 2953 4.17 6.41 43 Andy Pettitte 215.3 141 3395 4.15 5.89 53 Nate Robertson 177.7 119 2890 4.12 6.03 49 Miguel Batista 193.0 133 3259 4.08 6.20 47 Tom Gorzelanny 201.7 135 3312 4.08 6.02 50 Joe Blanton 230.0 140 3481 4.02 5.48 58 Kyle Lohse 192.7 122 3043 4.01 5.70 56 Paul Maholm 177.7 105 2644 3.97 5.32 60 Greg Maddux 198.0 104 2703 3.85 4.73 70 Tim Hudson lowered his walk rate from 2006 (3.26 BB/9) to 2007 (2.13 BB/9) by more than a third, and it did wonders to his ERA (plunging from 4.86 to 3.33). The 32-year-old righthander also increased his GB rate and decreased his HR rate to near career bests.

61-70 K/100P

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk Barry Zito 196.7 131 3411 3.84 5.99 52 Tim Wakefield 189.0 110 2881 3.82 5.24 63 Jose Contreras 189.0 113 3006 3.76 5.38 59 Mark Buehrle 201.0 115 3103 3.71 5.15 64 Chien-Ming Wang 199.3 104 2861 3.64 4.70 71 Jason Marquis 191.7 109 3029 3.60 5.12 65 Josh Fogg 165.7 94 2675 3.51 5.11 66 Jarrod Washburn 193.7 114 3271 3.49 5.30 61 Jeff Suppan 206.7 114 3328 3.43 4.96 68 Matt Morris 198.7 102 3037 3.36 4.62 72 An extreme groundballer like Chien-Ming Wang can operate effectively with such a low strikeout rate. He needs to throw strikes and keep the ball down in the zone. If he loses the ability to do one or the other, his value will drop accordingly.

71-80 K/100P

Name IP SO Pitches K/100P K/9 K/9 Rk Matthew Chico 167.0 94 2829 3.32 5.07 67 Woody Williams 188.0 101 3148 3.21 4.84 69 Paul Byrd 192.3 88 2836 3.10 4.12 76 Braden Looper 175.0 87 2807 3.10 4.47 73 Jon Garland 208.3 98 3293 2.98 4.23 74 Brian Bannister 165.0 77 2603 2.96 4.20 75 Carlos Silva 202.0 89 3057 2.91 3.97 78 Livan Hernandez 204.3 90 3361 2.68 3.96 79 Tom Glavine 200.3 89 3341 2.66 4.00 77 Aaron Cook 166.0 61 2407 2.53 3.31 80 You can have any and all of these pitchers. In order to survive, much less thrive, without racking up strikeouts, pitchers need to limit the number of walks and keep the ball on the ground. Matt Chico ranks poorly in all three areas. The southpaw is young and could improve, but the odds are against him and his mid-80s fastball to succeed unless he exhibits pinpoint control in the future.

Good luck to the team that ends up signing Carlos Silva to at least a four-year contract for upwards of $12 million per season. You have been forewarned. Silva does a great job at limiting the number of bases on balls, but he is living on the edge. Livan Hernandez is another free agent who is likely to disappoint his new team. This guy is simply no good. He has outlived his usefulness as a MLB pitcher. To wit, Hernandez’s K/9 not only dropped by 1.37 last year to the lowest level of his 11-year career but wound up below 4.0 for the first time ever. At the same time, his BB/9 (3.48) was the highest since 1998, resulting in the lowest K/BB ratio (1.14) of his career. By the latter measurement, he was the worst qualified starting pitcher in the majors last year. Did I mention that Livan also had the second-highest HR/9 (1.50)? Woody Williams was the only pitcher who allowed more long balls, and he just happened to rank in the bottom ten in K/100P as well.

Many of these pitchers, including the newly acquired Jon Garland of the Los Angeles Angels, will find themselves in the Southwest Quadrant (below-average K and GB rates) when I unveil this series during the off-season. Take a look at the pitchers who inhabited this quadrant in 2006. There’s not a lot to get excited about other than Joe Blanton.

Strikeouts. Pitch totals. Putting strikeouts in the numerator and pitch totals in the denominator allows us to measure dominance and efficiency or what I have referred to it as “strikeout proficiency.” As a standalone stat, I believe it tells us more than K/9 or K/BF.

By Josh N

November 27, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Can the braves not get rid of M. Hampton? He is and has been the most paid player on the braves roster since he has been there. And has never produced anything. Can we please just give up on him and say goodbye?

By Ron Meany

November 27, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

I have a headache.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

JoshN-Are you new here? This topic has been discussed continuously for at least two years and yesterday, too, as a matter of fact. ALL MLB contracts are guaranteed. That means if you part ways with a player, you still have to pay them ALL the money owed on a contract.

By leaving them on the DL, there is at least the chance of recouping (in Hampton’s case- an estimated 40-60%) through an insurance policy that is carried on all long term deals.

The short answer to your question is that Hampton would cost more to dump than to leave disabled.

By ncscoots

November 27, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Lew, oops, guess I should have read instead of scanned, LOL. Missed your point by a mile, bro, my bad. Far be it from my intention to be disingenuous!

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Santana is the best pitcher in the majors right now. He’s rarely injured and always good. Whomever trades for and then signs him is doing the right thing. It’s much different to sign a two time Cy Young winner with 4 straight 200+ inning seasons and an ERA well below league average to a large contract than it is to pay a huge sum to a guy with only 2 15+ win seasons. The bogus part of Hampton’s deal was the length. Hampton’s contract is ridiculous, but committing to 3 to 5 years at a high annual rate is better than committing 8 years.

Not that this matters, “many millions more” is apparently somewhere less than 3 million. Hopefully we’ll be able to resign Teixeira. I have a feeling it will go down like Washington not trading Soriano in hopes of signing him after he files for free agency. Once Teixeira leaves for more money and years from another team that actually walks the walk as opposed to just talking it, the Braves will be without pitching and hitting heading into a very high priced market.

Oh well, at least we should have an exciting run at the Division title in 2008. It might even end with the Braves having an even closer look at the post season than this past season offered.

By Rick Roberts

November 27, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Sign Mahay, period—it isn’t that much money and he is dependable. That takes care of one position. Take a flier on Terry Evans of the Angels—a RH power-hitting OF with upside. Forget about Hampton. Lillibridge should be on the opening day roster—speed, versatility and is ready for the ‘Bigs.’ Josh Anderson should start the season and he’ll add speed—if he doesn’t show he can handle it, by then, Schaefer just might be ready. Brandon Jones probably not ready, but Matt Diaz deserves to be the LF—plus, he hits the ball. This year’s lineup should be devoid of many K’s—many more solid hitters which should result in more runs—if, BC manages properly and doesn’t wait for the HR ball. Still think one more SP would put us over the hump—put James in the deal. Thorman should bring something on the trade market. And, I also echo those who say, tie up Texeira and Franceour. That’s all we want for Christmas!

By Anders

November 27, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Lew I know DOB said in the blog above that the Braves don’t release the info on how much of Hamptons salary is covered by insurance - have they ever given a reason why they don’t say so? Is this a state secret or something? I would also think they need to net out the cost of the insurance as well. Yesterday on ESPN Buster Onley reported that insurance for the type of contract Santana is vying for will cost upwards of $15 mil over the life of the contract - That’s a big nut to add to the deal that us fans don’t always take into account when valuing a deal.

By Overlord

November 27, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Whats in Hamptons mind? He just got a hamstring just because he didnt keep his legs in shape………man, if he was waiting for this moment for more than a year, why didnt he keep his legs in good shape. That guy is so close to be done for ever. Braves MUST turn to plan B right now and act as if Hampton was not around.

By Jared

November 27, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

The limits of your apparent ignorance knows no bounds�..

This coming from the “Jeff Bennett would be a great third starter” guy.

there were every any doubt….idiot.

“Wayne in Utah”, you can disagree with me without the petty name-calling.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Anders, no, they’ve never given a reason, just as they’ve never given a reason for not stating their exact payroll number, or the salaries of their players, manager, GM, etc. They don’t feel that any of that is anybody’s business. They’re not subject to open-records laws on such matters.

With the insurance, however, it is an extremely, extremely complicated situation in which they really don’t know until after the fact, when the insurance company agrees to a settlement and is satisfied that conditions weren’t preexisting, etc.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Lew, thanks for stating it in simpler, clearer terms than I did: It’s cheaper, more prudent for the Braves to have Hampton on the DL than to dump him. That’s the bottom line.

Seriously, why some folks here can’t understand that is beyond me. I just hope those aren’t the folks making decisions about their household’s 401Ks and kids’ college funds — I hope they’re allowing their spouses to do that.

(OK, that was rather condescending. But it just goes on and on, this line of questioning. We all keep answering, but to no avail. Hopefully Lew’s explanation will work for some here.)

By Amber

November 27, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Gee, it’s nice to know that this year they’ve learned not to count on Hampton. Guess they had to give him that extra year to be injured. I’m thinking Horacio Ramirez… John Thompson… Glass Man pitchers.

By Anders

November 27, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

DOB I didn’t realize that about the players salaries. I thought that was pretty public stuff through the players union. I get the insurance thing - I was just wondering if they had a specific reason. Apparently not. No big deal - Just makes it confusing to understand what your teams “actual” committment is. I’m sure it’s true for all.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Scoots-That’s what I thought. It was out of character for you, that’s why I commented.

Anders-DOB just gave you a better answert than I could have.

TenPaul-Could not the “many millions more” refer to what they hope to have Tex signed long term for and possibly Francoeur’s long term deal, as well? Aren’t those likely to be many millions more? The comment obviously was not in reference to signing Santana to a 7 or 8 year, $150 million deal.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

JoeBrave, hope you’ve dined on quite possibly the best breakfast in the world, right there at Loveless Motel & Cafe on Highway 100 in Nashvegas. Tremendous biscuits, country ham and grits. When everyone from George Jones to Martha Stewart calls it the best breakfast they’ve had, well, you’ve got something.

I plan to get out there at least once while at the Winter Meetings next week. Damn fine grub.

Those of you in the Nashville area, we should meet for an early breakfast Monday or Tuesday . Much as I hate to leave the site hotel and drive across town in traffic, if we did it early enough that I could get back before anything happened that day at the meetings, I’d do it.

Or even eat there Sunday early evening (they’ve also got great pork chops, fried chicken, etc.)

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Mr Baseball, at 1-something AM you wrote: “Why in the world would the Braves not offer arbitration to Mahay?”

Answer: They almost certainly will offer arbitration to Mahay. No reason to believe they won’t. No one said they wouldn’t, either. I said I didn’t think Andruw and Dotel would get offered arbitration.

They’ll offer it to Mahay, because they’d love to have him back at an arbitration-set salary for one year (which would be quite a bit less than he’ll get for 2008 in a long-term deal on the free-agent market ).

Braves have no reason not to offer him arbitration, because they know he wouldn’t take it when he can get a multi-year deal with the job security he’ll probably never have the chance to get again. This is his best chance at a big contract, ever.

By geauxbraves2000

November 27, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

I was thinking, I’ve read the Braves have many millions, and I’ve impatiently sat around wondering where it was. Then I calmed and remembered the winter meetings are just around the corner, and no telling what could happen. FW could have something up his sleeve that he has chosen not to divulge. Maybe??

Geaux Braves!!

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Bryan, really like the new Band of Horses CD. Not sure if I like it as much as first one, which was terrific. It’s very different, but real strong. I know most are saying they like it more, but that first one, I still play a lot.

It’s on the five-CD changer in my office now, along with M. Ward’s “Post-War,” Jay Farrar’s live album from a couple years back, and two My Morning Jacket CDs. (I found a limited-edition My Morning Jacket CD at Criminal Records in Atlanta a while back, from an acoustic show they did at a friend’s wedding reception. Great stuff.)

Gotta have the mellower stuff in the office, can’t get much work done with rawkin’ stuff playing.

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Jared: Would love to just disagree with you, but man, you take your point to the nth degree on Bennett. I think everyone, including Bennett, knows how you feel about him.

Your starting to sound like Robert bashing BC. So, when about 90+% of the other respondents disagree with you, you don’t have to keep beating that dead horse.

That is what qualified you for my statement yesterday.

:-)

By Josh

November 27, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

DOB - I’m thinking it is a typo in the original blog post, but this is copied and pasted from it: “With Mahay, I�m pretty certain the Braves will not offer Mahay arbitration, but you never know.”

When I read that I figured you meant to leave the “not” out, but I’m guessing that’s where Mr.Baseball got that info

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

My nomination for Hot Stove name of the year, a perennial favorite: Bean Stringfellow. He’s the agent for Francisco Cordero.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Well-Y’all can keep beating those motionless equines. My new HD TV just got here and now I get to prove that even UGA alums can be a Hell of an Engineer. I (hopefully) shall return.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball, my mistake. Josh just pointed out my typo from original blog. Please accept my apologies.

By Scoff

November 27, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Just wondering why buddy carlyle is not being mentioned as being a possiblility as atlanta’s 5th starter next year? I missed quite a few games towards the end of the season… did he get hurt or something?

By Braveheart

November 27, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Wayne, yeah, Jared overdoes it with the Bennett bashing ….. but not any more than most of the rest of the blog overdoes it with Bennett in the opposite direction. It’s almost becoming commonly accepted that the guy is super awesome and was outstanding last year. He was just good. He should be decent. He’s got good stuff and seems to have a good makeup. But calm the hell down everyone about Bennett. Maybe Jared will stop getting carried away with the bashing of Bennett once all the others stop getting carried away with the blind faith and loving praise of Bennett.

By Hammy the Brave

November 27, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Don’t you personally think it’s a bad baseball/business decision to not offer arbitration to at least Mahay, and have FW check his contacts and see if a team will offer a multi-yr contract to Andruw, and thus try to offer it to him? I just believe they’re hurting themselves from a scouting/player development standpoint when the Braves don’t get all the extra draft picks they can reasonably get when they lose free agents. Doesn’t this bother FW somewhat, as he comes across as a big player development kind of GM?

Also, I think we’ve been looking at filling the potential loss of offense, from the wrong perspective.
Who said we could only fill the power void by getting a power-hitting CF? That’s too hard to do anyway, IMO, and we should be looking for a righty power bat for LF. Don’t you think we could make a small trade to get Juan Rivera from the Angels, now that they have too many bats for the outfield? Is there anyway the Braves would consider signing Jose Guillen as a free agent, or has he been too badly tainted by the steroid scandal for them?

As for the bullpen lefty, have you heard the names the Braves are really considering? Could that be Affedlt, Eddie Guardauro, Ron Villone, Jimmy Gobble(I really believe we need a lefty with some experience to be a setup man, and provide some experience to the bullpen in general).

I hope FW will construct a legitimate major league bench this yr. I know the experiment with Wilson and Woodard blew up, but I believe firmly you need to have a deep, versatile and veteran bench to go far in the playoffs. Please don’t let FW depend on Aybar alone to back up Chipper, he has addiction issues and no real power. Why not sign Corie Koskie, or Mike Lamb as a free agent, or trade for a lefty power bat to back him up? How about Ceasar Izturis to back up 2B-SS, and Rod Barajas to back up catcher?

Lastly, for the CF issue, don’t you think we could get Ryan Freel fairly cheaply in trade? I’ve heard you say you’re not impressed with him, but I believe he’ll do fine as a right-handed platoon partner in CF/leadoff. Remember they only need him for 1-2 yrs.

Hope to hear from you soon,

   Hammy the Brave

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

NRBQ, I saw that Cash special on PBS when they first played it a few months ago. Very good stuff. Haven’t bought the DVD, but probably will. Still have the show on my DVR right now….

And this is random, but my nomination for Hot Stove name of the year, a perennial favorite: Bean Stringfellow. He’s the agent for Francisco Cordero.

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Lew: No, the comment I made had no reference to acquiring Santana. It’d be a helluva a coup, but I don’t foresee that guy in a Braves uni ever. No, the many millions more is directed at this season/offseason. The offseason where “many millions more” was available for pay raises only and acquiring a good pitcher for 1 year thus not improving the long term outlook of the team.

It is obvious the Braves will have a lot of money to play with next offseason. Most of the veteran high-dollar contracts are done after this season. Including Chipper and Smoltz to go along with Teixeira and Hampton. I’d imagine Chipper and Smoltz’s options will vest or be picked up, or at least extensions given to them. And I would be shocked if the Braves didn’t make an offer to Teixeira next offseason. But, that said, it will not be enough. Next offseason the Braves will be looking for a clean up hitter, left fielder, two starting pitchers, a first baseman, and depending on the stop gap we get this year and how well our newly acquired prospects do, a center fielder. And as per usual, the market will be very expensive meaning the Braves will probably only be able to afford 1 of the two primary needs, pitching or 1B/Clean up hitter. The rest will be filled with enternal options and it’ll be a great time watching the young guys grow and learn the game. But it will be a long, long time before this team wins a world title.

By Vol

November 27, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Why wouldn’t the Braves offer Mahay arbitration? Seems like a good case to do so. Not sure you want to sign him to a long term deal and his market value seems higher than what he would get in a one-year deal. Totally understand on Jones and Dotel, but not Mahay (especially since he would meet one of the team’s biggest needs).

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

WW Man, I gotta push Bennett, cause he is my brother-in-law, and he told me I could be his agent if he makes it big!!

Just kidding, but you are right. With a couple of decent looking appearances, we are almost ready to annoint a guy Cy Now.

Actually, I am hoping he has a good spring, as he seems to have the right makeup for a long reliever, spot starter.

OK, Jared, can we call a truce? Whaddya say? I bet you wouldn’t be too disappointed if Bennett made it as the long reliever, and spot starter now, would you??? And, I wouldn’t be too surprised if he never won another major league game either. (don’t tell Coach I said that, cause I think Bennett is Coach’s son-in-law!)

:-)

By Saltywoody

November 27, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Today, Mike Hampton’s Hamstring was interviewed about its recent injury. Here is a summary of its comments:

HH: I’m TIRED of Mike’s arm getting all the attention. It’s time some of the rest of his feeble body gets some press. So, I’ve made a deal with the quads and the lats that each one of us is going to act up once a month until Spring Training. You know…just to keep the winter interesting.

We’ll lay low for a while through Spring Training, just to give Mike and everyone a false sense of security. Then, a few starts into the season? When Mike’s looking really good? We’ll all quit at once, and REALLY make some headlines! Let’s see Doc Andrews fix this one!

By Vol

November 27, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

I just asked the same thing about Mahay minutes ago and it looks like that got addressed by DOB. That makes a lot more sense.

By Wilbur

November 27, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

I’ve been reading the blogs by Thirsty Horse. Oof. Sounds like Mr. Ed’s gone senile. Think it’s time we put him down and gave some hungry dog a nice dinner.

By Josh

November 27, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

When I saw the name Bean Stringfellow on some other baseball site reporting the Cordero signing I had to look this guy up because I thought it was a joke! He actually played in the Braves minor league system in the ‘80’s. I wonder if Bobby would’ve called him Stringy…

By Braveheart

November 27, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Wayne, we could do like one of those old cartoons with Coach having a halo around his head and Jared wearing devil’s horns with both floating over Jeff Bennett’s shoulders telling him You Stink! You’re Awesome! You Stink! You’re Awesome!

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

OK, you guys are onto me. Yes, it is true, I am Bean Stringfellow, the super agent!

Hammy Lots of good points. I like offering arbitration to Mahay, or even overpaying for him. But, a lot depends on the stuff we know nothing about. Who they are talking to, and who they might trade for.

I was a big Freel guy last year, but with his history, I don’t know. And Corey Koskie???? Is he still alive???

DOB I would love to have a buck for every CD you’ve bought in the past 5 years! BTW, do you think FW will be active between now and spring training, or can we fill the other needs via retreads in the spring? I would think CF and lefty reliever might be more critical now??

Gotta go drive to western Wyoming this afternoon.

Hoping for a blockbuster for Johan Santana and a smaller trade for Dan Haren AND Joe Blanton while I am on the road today!!!

:-)

By Vol

November 27, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Maybe they used a ligament from Hampton’s leg to fix his elbow.

By layout29

November 27, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

The probable availability of Twins ace Johan Santana makes me long for the days when Ted Turner’s money could do wonderful things. A talent like him doesn’t become accessible very often, and wouldn’t it be nice to see the Braves become a player here … is it totally out of the question to think that Santana money and young talent simply is not available??? could new ownership be convinced that this is one player worth the money it would take upfront??? i guess i’m just dreaming.

By timmythebrave

November 27, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

I think you can never have too much pitching. I would like for us to go after Haren, and the Braves need to put their money where there mouth is and sign Texeira and Francoeur. They said they had more money to spend.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

Hammy, as I said, josh pointed out simple typo in original post. I corrected it: I don’t see any reason Braves WON’T offer Mahay arbitration. Only makes sense that they will, since they’d like to have him at the salary he’d get through that process (under $2 mill). He won’t take it, that’s for sure, because he’ll get a lot more in this market. A LOT more, and a multi-year contract to boot.

This could be Mahay’s only crack at a big contract, and you can bet he’ll take it. As he should.

Doesn’t sound like Braves have been aggressive at all with him, at least not yet. That from conversations yesterday with folks who know.

But no, absolutely not on Andruw. Not unless they want to pay him $14-16 mill a year next season, perhaps even more if an arbitration panel looks at Hunter’s new contract, Wells’ salary, and whatever Rowand ends up getting, and Boras is able to convince them with reams of stats from his career and the past five years, etc, that Andruw is worth far more (arbitration panels aren’t like the folks who classify free agents and only use the past two years for ranking them; arbitration panels can use whatever they deem important, and Boras and his army of litigators and stats people are the best at going to arbitration and winning).

By flange1

November 27, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Afternoon all,

Interesting talk today.

Sad to see Hampton get hurt again. I know this is a minor injury, but it would have been nice to have Spring Training start and have a little better information on where Hampton stood. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

The Mahay situation is interesting. The Braves should offer arbitration, Mahay will decline it. But I agree with some above that he is the kind of guy we should over pay a bit for a couple of years.

Lew and others have said Liberty was going to spend more and I hope that that is the case. I hope Mahay is where we see it first.

But you know that Frank Wren has some deals cooking on players that we are not even speaking of yet on this blog.

I am looking forward to the winter meetings to let this play unfold!

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

So difficult to sit here and see all of these teams lik the Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees inquiring about Erik Bedard, Johan Santana and Dan Haren.

I understand we can’t go for Santana(because it is fiscally insane), but Erik Bedard and Dan Haren are two pitchers that will cost less and almost equal Johan’s production over the next three seasons.

Haren is owed 16 million over the next three seasons. He is a horse at the top of Oakland’s rotation and I would definetly be willing to part with Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge and one of Cole Rohrbough/Jeff Locke/Tommy Hanson for a front of the rotation starter like Haren or Bedard. If Baltimore wants a CF, than I would consider swapping Jones for Hernandez. Maybe even Schafer.

By Anders

November 27, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

The Yanks have their eyes on Mahay - They need a bullpen lefty bad. I’m sure they told him to get the number he’s looking for and get back to them. Bad time to be shopping for lefty bullpen help. The big bad Yankees are in the market for some. Someone has to face Ortiz in the late innings of 18 games a year and the playoffs. The Yanks have only 3 lefty pitchers on their whole roster of 25 pitchers and two of them (Igawa and Wright) stink. Just another problem they’ll throw money at when they get around to it.

By timmythebrave

November 27, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

layout29, your dreaming if you think we can compete with the Yanks, Sox, and Angels when it comes to cash. Maybe santana will take a “not your home town” discount. I wish. Not a chance, especially when the Braves said they felt like they were done with going after additional starting pitchers.

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

A few comments on the Santana situation. Yes, we did some wheeling and dealing with Ted at the helm, but rarely did we give up huge amounts of talent for a big name player (such as the Tex deal).

Remember, Maddux was a free agent signing.

So, while it would be awesome to have Santana, would it be worth it for who we would have to give up? Or, do we wait and pick up a FA pitcher in a year or two, when we are pretty sure that a few will become available?

By flange1

November 27, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

I strongly agree with your trade for Haren and maybe for Bedard. I would give up Hernandez but not Schafer.

By semiballcoach

November 27, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

they were afraid to put a comment box on moore’s column. no one is concerned over the number of American Caucasians playing in the NBA so why be concerned about the number of Arican Americans in MLB? if kids don’t want to play or are not interested you can’t force them to play.

By DonCoburleone

November 27, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

“Thanks, Don Corburleone, for you have expressed my sentiments exactly. BTW would MO VAUGHN and JASON KENDALL qualify as �runners up�?”

Crap! I can’t believe I left out Mo Freaking Vaughn! I had completely forgotten about that contract…

By ncscoots

November 27, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

TPaul, even if Tex leaves next year, I would hope that Francoeur will have matured enough by then to hit 4. if not, well, oops, plan B.

But, if Frenchy can hit 4, then I think Kaaihue has a good shot at making the jump in 2009. He’s struggled after mid-season promotions, but he came back to rake at high A after one of ‘em, and hopefully does the same at AA. And, bubba, 20+ homers in that Myrtle Beach ballpark is stronger than dirt. So, he certainly has the power to play 1B, if he can keep his Ks under control.

Anyway, there will life after Tex (if indeed he skies); Braves will just have to be stronger at the other 7 spots to compensate.

By timmythebrave

November 27, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

DOB, I saw My Morning Jacket at bonnarroo a few years back and they put on a great show. If I was to purchase an album of theirs what should I start with?

By Jared

November 27, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

OK, Jared, can we call a truce? Whaddya say? I bet you wouldn�t be too disappointed if Bennett made it as the long reliever, and spot starter now, would you???

Sure.

I’m fine with Bennett as a long relief pitcher. He’d probably be better in that role than Oscar Villarreal.

I don’t dislike Jeff Bennett. I really don’t. I just think the Braves have better options for the fifth starter spot and people should not get carried away with the 13 innings he pitched in the majors last season. That’s all.

By Anders

November 27, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Efrim Is Bedard truly available or is that just market speculation? I’m not that close to his situation but I’d take him first over Santana and Haren allowing for fiscal reasons as well, not just baseball stats. I go back and forth on Santana, he’s certainly been a real star but 6 years at $115 to $130mil (my guess) is pretty risky. I do think the Mets have a shot at Haren. I know how Milledge is hated on this blog but more importantly it’s been reported that Billy Beane really likes him. Throw in Heilman and they’re on their way to a trade including another second tier prospect or two. Not impossible.

By AZBravoFan

November 27, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard much talk about OF Doug Clark or 1B Barbaro Canizares? Both seem to be tearing up the Mexican league and have been at least as effective if not better than B. Jones and Thorman.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

Just for the record, if wondering about the eventual landing spot for Andruw, I’m thinking of a ballpark where Boras has front-row seats and a solid relationship with ownership. A warm-weather place and a team with a lot of money they don’t mind spending, wisely or not-so-wisely. With the Angels of Anaheim/Laguna Beach/Irvine/Tustin/Redondo Beach out of the picture now, I’d be paying attention to the Dodgers of Los Angeles.

I can see something happening there. Andruw in Dodger Blue. Cringe if you must.

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Scoots: Yes, he does look promising, and like I said, it will be fun watching the young guys grow and learn the game, but it will be a long time before this is a World Series winning team.

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Flange

I probably wouldn’t give up Schafer either. I don’t really think you have to in this case. I really believe that a package of Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge and either Cole Rohrbough/Tommy Hanson/Jeff Locke would do the trick. To be honest, I would throw another pitcher as well. Someone more major league ready like Jo Jo or Jair.

Now of course, that would deplete the system, but folks, we are getting Dan Haren here. On the cheap as well. He is owed pratically nothing over the next three years. I’d say the Top 10 is going to look very different over the next three years.

I am sure that they will trade for him, but Haren is going to get traded to someone. Most likely the loser of the Santana sweepstakes.

By timmythebrave

November 27, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

semiballcoach, If terrance moore would take the time to go to the local parks he would see that the kids playing baseball are predominately caucasian or hispanic. Then he might write a well written article about why more african american kids are not playing baseball thus leading to fewer playing in the majors but that would take WORK. Just call everyone racists AGAIN and that is about the easiest article to write. To me he is just a lazy writer. Most people stopped paying attention to him years ago.

By DAP

November 27, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

i would like to try and get haren as well, but it just aint happening. wren is done with the rotation…which i dont think is a good thing.

andruw in dodger blue…makes alot of sense. that sux. i hope he signs with an AL team so we dont have to see him much.

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Yes, AJ would be the better buy for the Dodgers, but like you said they have a lot of money they don�t mind spending, wisely or not-so-wisely. I’d bank more on the not-so-wisely option first. They’ll give 16 million a year to Rowand.

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

a solid relationship with ownership

And on this level, I’m not so sure Boras’ relationship is tip top. I think the JD deal is to blame.
But if it’s ownership friendliness and warm climates, the Rangers always buy whatever Boras is selling. And Dallas is much closer to home for AJ than LA.

By DonCoburleone

November 27, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I could definately see AJ in Dodger blue, of course that would be admitting that the Juan Pierre signing was a huge mistake (of course, who didn’t see that as a huge mistake the second it happened?)

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Can Doug Clark play CF?

By Wayne in Utah

November 27, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Jared The thing is, the Braves shouldn’t get too carried away with any of their starting prospects, and should give them all their due in spring training. That includes Bennett, Morton, Cormier (if he is still here), Jurrjens, Reyes, James, Carlyle, and Smith. Did I forget anyone???

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

TennPaul

Why are you so certain this team can’t win a world series in the next few years?

I understand they haven’t produced a front of the rotation type pitcher from the farm in years, but other than that, why not?

By Grant Hill

November 27, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

don’t forget about me doncoburleone

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Anders

It sounds like Bedard is available for the right price. You overvalue Aaron Heilman. It would take more than Milledge, Heilman and some B level prospects to net Haren. Nix Heilman from that equation and throw in Fernando Martinez and Kevin Mulvey. Milledge, Martinez, Mulvey and Pelfrey would seem like a fair trade.

By Steve McP

November 27, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

DOB - if going to arbitration with Andruw shouldn’t the comparison be with other B class free agents not the A rated guys that you quoted? If MLB makes a system to class free agents to decide draft picks when they leave then that should surely be used to determine salaries in arbitration as well - that would surely knock a couple of million off of a one year deal for Andruw, not that I like the idea of that really, but I was wondering more from a technical point rather than thinking that it would actually happen

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Scoots: On KK as a Pelican… 22 HR is nice, but 15 of those were on the road. He destroyed the road and “struggled” at home. His numbers don’t look bad at home considering it is supposed to be harder to hit there than at Petco, but his road numbers dwarf them.

Split G  AB HR  AVG  OBP  SLG
Home 40 148  7 .270 .383 .480
Road 32 157 15 .331 .439 .694

By 22oz

November 27, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

After all the maddening discussion of Mike Hampton’s guaranteed contract and the fact that it is useless to cut him loose, the poll on the AJC Braves’ homepage:

“Is it time to pull the plug on Mike Hampton?’

I assume you’re not in charge of the poll DOB!

By Saltywoody

November 27, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

A lot of former Braves go to the Dodgers, huh? Maddux (indirectly), JD Drew, Furcal…and now Andruw (perhaps).

Can we get them to take Hampton off our hands? And why the heck couldn’t we get them to take Woodward last year?

As weird as it seems, I hope Andruw goes to the Nats. At least there’s hope that if that happens, we won’t have to see him in the playoffs across the field from us.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 27, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

If I may (and I will) I need to jump into this discussing about African-American kids playing baseball. This is one instance where racism really plays no part. Black kids don’t play baseball because they see basketball and football as more exciting and as more lucrative. Now, looking at the current contracts in the MLB that sounds insane but we all know (or should at least) that its infinitely harder to get to the majors than it is the NFL or to some extent the NBA. A better way of saying it would be that money is made quicker in the NFL and NBA than MLB. Even the best of players may have to toil in the minors for five or six years before getting their shot. In the NFL a really talented player has to go to college three years before entering the draft and becomming an instant millionaire. In the NBA players have to go to college a minimum of one year before earning more money than they could’ve ever imagined.

Its just like everybody thought Tiger Woods would cause an increase of young black kids wanting to play golf. It just didn’t. Now, I believe that Woods’ “failure” to do that has more than just the ability to become instantaneously rich, but that is a large part of it. Fact is, getting on the PGA Tour is just as tough as getting into the NBA.

The lack of blacks in baseball really has nothing to do with racism, bigotry, or prejudice. Trust me! Let a couple of high schoolers get $5 or $6 mil upfront by signing a contract and I bet you’ll see more blacks interested in baseball. It is just the way it is.

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Efrim: The competition mainly. I don’t think the moves this offseason have made up for the 8 or 9 games they’ll need just to get there. And once there, I don’t think they have enough to beat the AL. If this was late 90’s early 00’s and the streak was still alive, I’d believe differently. They had swagger back then. Now, when they have the talent, as they did in August and September, they still struggle. They should have a winning team, but I don’t think it will take the World Title. And after this season, the turn over is much greater and the costs of replacing these guys will be much higher so a lot more youth will be brought in. From there, they’ll be fun to watch and could make a run, but I think they’ll be a bit too young to win it all. Kind of like the D-Backs and Rockies. Good, young, fun teams, but not good enough to win it all.

This could all change. It really depends on how many more millions they are actually willing to spend. Obviously, this offseason, they’re pretty much done spending. A few parts here and there, but nothing big. I don’t see any all-star caliber players coming to this team next season yet we’ve watched at least 2 leave.

By Anders

November 27, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

DOB I’m suprised on your AJ to Dodgers scenario. What kind of money and years do you see?

Not a real hitters park-right?

By Kentavo

November 27, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

I’m not sold on Mahay - he seems to walk the first batter every time he comes in. I hate that. Any statheads on here that can give us Mahay’s first-batter faced results?

And I thought all along that Andruw would wind up in Dodger blue to rejoin buddy Furcal.

By Anders

November 27, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Efrim Perhaps the Mets should throw David Wright in there too?

We’ll have to see what happens, if anything.

By DAP

November 27, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

just a funny tid-bit here. when rollin won the MVP, his picture was in the local paper, the one of him smiling with his arms stretched out like “yay! look at me!” anyways, in that picture, he had a sweaty right arm pit. it was dark like a sweat stain. now, on mlb.com, they have the same picture posted, but they have gone in with photoshop or something and blurred that spot on his arm pit. it happens to everyone at some point, but man, thats embarrassing, hunh? the thing is, hes wearing two shirts. dude must have been sweaty.

By Randy

November 27, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

DOB - What’s the name of that My Morning Jacket CD (or is it just some random off-label release)? I was jonesing for some acoustic MMJ just last night. And I can imagine it being difficult to get work done to the hard stuff, because when they rock they do indeed rock hard. My ears are still ringing from the 40 Watt show and mammoth soundboard they brought in.

By STRETCH

November 27, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

I keep seeing and hear about CoCo Crisp…is there any truth to that?

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

TennPaul

I don�t see any all-star caliber players coming to this team next season yet we�ve watched at least 2 leave.

Well said. I agree. And I agree on what you said as well, I just wanted to hear what your reasoning was. My reasoning is that there are just better young players on other teams in the NL and they have better, younger pitching. I think every team overvalues their own young players. Braves fans are guilty of this as well.

By ppaddy123

November 27, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

I’m not coo-coo for CoCo Crisp!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 27, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah I would not count on Dan Smith being around this spring. The Braves left him off their 40 man roster and I don’t think he is going to get past Washington in the Rule 5 draft.

That is not a for sure thing but if I were Jim Bowden I sure would take the chance for $50,000. Especially considering the talent or lack of they already have.

By Hammy the Brave

November 27, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I think my question on your offering arb. to Mahay comment came before you corrected yourself. No harm, no foul.

Could I get your comments on the other points I raised? Don’t you think the Braves could make an easy trade for Juan Rivera of the Angels, to provide righty power in LF? Wouldn’t Ryan Freel be a good enough righty platoon partner in the CF/leadoff position, with probably Josh Anderson? Have you heard if FW is interested in the lefty relievers I named? Will he make a concerted effort to give the Braves a more veteran, versatile bench this year? Your latest comments about the bench just say FW wants a veteran backup st 2B-SS, but you don’t mention catcher or especially 3B. Aren’t you concerned yourself about Chipper’s injury history and Aybar’s lack of stability, to want someone else to be Chipper’s backup?

Love to hear your comments,

 Hammy the Brave

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 27, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah Doug Clark is a corner outfielder. He is a very positive influence in the club house. Just an all around decent guy and could be a starter on several clubs but I think the Braves keep him around as insurance. He has some pop in his bat too.

He is not slow but I would estimate he has average speed for an outfielder. Richmond used him a lot in the 5th and 6th slot in the batting order last year.

He won’t embarrass you but I doubt he will make the all-star team either. He his having a good season in Mexico though.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 27, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Hammy the Brave, I think you could be onto something with the Braves trading for Rivera. Sending Diaz as part of the deal would likely intrigue the Angels. Diaz is the kind of player Sciossia likes and would give them the perfect 4th outfielder. I believe ‘08 is Rivera’s last year before free agency which means the Braves would only be on the hook for his salary this upcoming season and they could cut him loose after next year and let B. Jones take over. Rivera has 25 -30 Hr power and 100 RBI potential. That greatly intrigues me.

Now, I’m not so sure I feel you on Freel.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-I think you’re jumping the gun somewhat on your pessimistic outlook. The Winter Meetings haven’t even taken place yet and there is still 2 1/2 months until Spring Training starts. Deals frequently happen all the way through the spring.

That being said-Just who would you have them spend all of these “many more millions” on? Does not an attempt to sign Tex long term and Francoeur long term count as spending? Will this not take “many more millions to make come to fruition? Do they not need to hold back $$$$$ to make this even a remote possibility? Also, exactly when do you let the young pitchers get a shot? Do you let them pitch or do you just send more of them off to another teasm for someone who will cost 15-30 times as much because they had a good season or two? When do you find out if these kids you’ve just spent three to five years and a bucket full of money to develop can pitch or not? Do you wait until Smoltz, Glavine and possibly Hudson are retired? This is a serious question, Dude-I’m interested in your view-Efrim’s too. Just when do you trust your farm system-A farm system that has come through time and again. Just because there is money available, sometimes spending too much is a really stupid move.

By mo in the boonies

November 27, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

DOB Re: Andruw in Dodger blue….I am cringing. And Torre could easily replace Cox as the “father figure”. I’m betting the Braves fans are going to be doing a lot of cringing next year.

Tenn Paul is right, there is nothing about what the Braves have done so far to get excited about. And putting all their eggs in one basket in hopes of sighing Texeira next year, when they know deep down that they are not ever going to be able to afford him is futile.

Really not happy about FW saying he is through with dealing for starting pitching. It will be the same as last year all over again. And Hampton is already flaming out. He should have been in better shape than he apparently was. If Haren is up for grabs, I say, Grab! It is just plain stupid not to.

Robert (JITB) Agree completely with you on the reason black kids don’t play more baseball. If they still had the Bonus Baby system like back in the old Kaline days, where a kid could be signed for a big bonus, and then play right away, instead of languishing in the minors for years and years, It would be more enticing to all kids, black or white etc. And a lot more exciting for the fans.

That game between the Steelers and Dolphins was a joke, but shouldn’t the fish have won on that wet field instead the Steelers? :-)

By laurance maney

November 27, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

Please stop even thinking aloud about Coco Puffs. He’s not that great a centerfielder, can’t hit, cam’t bunt and has all the swagger of a semi-comatose J D Drew. But then maybe that would make him a good fit with Bobby!

By doc

November 27, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

dob, i mentioned that possibility in a recent blog as a wish for andruw. he and torre would be a good fit. i just dont think just any manager is going to be in his best interest and deflect stuff during his prolonged slumps like bobby took it upon himself to do.

i really wish andruw well. we should always remember the season of 2005 when he took the team on his shoulders and got the last of 14 trips in a row. quite a year and if relief pitching hadnt crumbled doing a wohlers imitation when the little shortstop hit one out to win the game in st.louis; it might have been the braves in the world series against the red sox.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton

Eight years, $121-million

The Crystal River native should earn two places on this list. A solid lefty pitcher in the majors always earns more than he deserves. But even experts raised their eyebrows when Hampton picked up $121-million in 2000 from the Rockies. In two years, he went 21-28 with an ERA of more than 6. Since then, his career has been sidelined by injuries. The kicker: The Rockies still owe him $6-million for a buyout in 2009 assuming the Braves (Hampton�s current team when he comes off the disabled list next season) don�t pick up a $20-million option. Uh, they won�t.

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner! Congratulations Mike Hampton, and thanks for playing!

Ok chrisklob, I’ll accept your apologies now about Mike Hampton. Now am I right about this chronic injured player ? You people will learn to listen to me sooner later. The hamstring tells you Hampton was not in shape to pitch. That happens when you ride the pine for 3 years.

By TK

November 27, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

I hope Frank Wren does look into talking with the A’s about Dan Haren. I think a trade of Chuck James, Brandon Jones, Martin Prado, and maybe another minor leaguer. James will never be the pitcher Haren is now….Haren will get better. The Braves don’t need Jones and for sure not Prado. Haren is under contract for 3 more years. He could bridge the gap when John & Tom are gone to the young kids coming up. Before anyone jumps my case about James. Does anyone really see him ever starting the All-Star game??? Haren already has!

By Jim

November 27, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

DOB, etc: Assume Chipper only plays 125 games and is replaced late-inning in a few more. In those games Yunel moves to 3d and Lillibridge plays SS. Lillibridge also gets 50 fames in CF. So, Lillibridge gets 200 or so full game ABs and maybe 50-75 more as a PH or late inning replacement. Not a very expensive proposition and fielding (pitcher support) does not suffer. Much better than Woodward with the “woodless” bat. And, who knows, he may be the best CF Bs have - if they don’t sign anyone (in which case he’d get 500+ABs, and Bs could still put Yunel at 3d, Lillibridge at SS and Anderson in CF when Chipper is not in game). Beware DeJesus. For some reason, his second half stats in ‘07 were way off his first half performance - and Bs would be paying $3MM more for him than Lillibridge!

By JohnGTFan

November 27, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

doc

I think the majority of us…even the one’s who won’t admit it…wish Andruw well. He was such an incredible presence..even if mostly in the field. I don’t think people have forgotten what he gave the Braves. But a lot of people also know it’s time to move on. And I can’t believe you brought up Wohlers…OH NO! lol

Before I forget…GT…find a coach quick…and a d&mn good one before the committed recruits go elsewhere!!!!

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Nah ! I’m imagining things about Hampton being a chronically injured player…

Quoting DOB : “Hampton has had eight stints on the disabled list since being traded to the Braves after the 2002 season. He hasn�t pitched in a game stateside since 2005, when he was 5-3 with a 3.50 ERA in 12 starts before blowing out his elbow and having Tommy John ligament-transplant surgery.”

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Who buys cds anymore ? You can legally become a member of Itunes,Limewire,etc. for the price of two cds at Wal-Mart for a year and download as many songs as you like ! I have about 3,000 songs downloaded and it cost me $22.00

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 27, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Jeff Bennett , neither he nor Ryan Basner have pitched in more than two weeks down in Venezuela. Should I assume they are done for the Winter ?

By Anders

November 27, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

From Jayson Stark’s column at ESPN concerning the trading of Santana:

*What isn’t safe is naming a favorite here. But one NL executive says: Watch out for the Mets, given the pressure on GM Omar Minaya to win now.

“Omar seems determined to make a huge splash,” the exec says. “And I think that’s the guy they’ve had earmarked all along.” *

Apparently I’m not alone in my thoughts about Omar making a big splash this off season - Keep in mind the Yanks across town spent $400 mil - Last Week - on 3 players!! The Mets can’t sit tight. Won’t say it will definetly happen but it sure is fun to be in the conversation. Sleep well Braves Nation.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

DOB, here’s some songs you should checkout.

Artist and songs:

Breakin Benjamin : Breathe,Natural Life,Sooner Or Later,So Cold,Polyamerus,Firefly,Saturate

Theory Of A Deadman : Santa Monica,Hello Lonely,The Last Song,Since You’ve Been Gone

Default : Taking My Life Away,Wasting My Time,All She Wrote,The Way We Were

Snow Patrol : Chasing Cars

Smile Empty Soul : Silhouettes

Tantric : Live Your Life

Tool : Schism

By Braveheart

November 27, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

If the Mets include Milledge in a Johan trade, do they sign Andruw and put him in right?

By Saltywoody

November 27, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

Anders �Omar seems determined to make a huge splash�

The GM is referring to Omar jumping in a puddle of Moises Alou’s urine after his whizzes on his hands…not making a big free agent acquisition.

By richie

November 27, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Why dont the Braves go after Jason Bay? He his going to be available. I know everyone is gung ho about having Diaz be an everyday player but i truly believe he would be worse as an every day player. In the role he is in, he is very effective. Pitchers cant game plan for Diaz because he doesnt play everyday. If he does play everyday, he will be accustomed to the slumps of an everyday player and the adjustments pitchers make as well. I just think the addition of another 10+ OF assists guy would be great. He is a good hitter in a bad line up. Put him behind Tex and before McCann and we would be monstrous. We have the pieces, as far as personnel. We would be the best team in the NL, no question!!!

By richie

November 27, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

By doc

November 27, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

gt agree about gt, dan had better get this one right. gailey faltered but not as hard as some we have had through the years not even close. funny grew up in the dodd years and without the run from 1951-56 his record might not have been any better than gailey’s maybe worse. he just told such good stories, played tennis with the best of them at the bitsey grant center and stayed in his regular poker game til the last of his days, i am sure. his poker helped him to know when to quick kick or punt on third down. best game i ever saw was a 7-3 victory at home over the tide in namath’s sophomore year. yeah 7-3, and can you imagine the reaction if a coach punted on third down?

By Jared

November 27, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

I want the Mets’ fans to start obsessing over Santana like they did Alex Rodriguez, only to see the anger and whining when they inevitably don’t get him. Think MetsBlog will melt down again?

By Josh

November 27, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

Oh I will sleep very well tonight, with thoughts of the Mets payroll crippled by trying to compete with the Yankees spending dancing in my head!

By Stephen

November 27, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this

VIDEO of Hampton’s outing: View here on YouTube

By JC FROM UT

November 27, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

DOB: What do you think of a Lance Cormier for Jimmy Goble trade? Or Cormier for Will Ohman?

By Lew

November 27, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

Anders-Dream on. The only way you can get Santana is if they give up Wright or Reyes. When will y’all realize that your farm system is so meager with ML ready prospects, that you can’t afford to give any away? No one wants Milledge and Pelfrey. If you do give up Reyes, Wright or even Milledge, who do you replace them with?

By rick

November 27, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

I say load up Hampton on a bottle or tequila and pitch like it was the 9th inning of game 7. End it once and for all. Tear the labrum, rotator, and groin, instead of the hearts of the die-hard hopeful fans thinking you’re coming back to win 12-15. Meanwhile, get that insurance money locked down and plan NOW not in February when the next strained forearm begins a series of injuries that curses the Bravos. I’m sure that insurance $$ along with our other spending cash to get a reliable 4.

By rick

November 27, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

By Yars

November 27, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

Atlanta fans were too good to Andruw. I wish they had been on his *ss from the very beginning of his pathetic ‘07 season at the plate. Let him play 81 games at Dodger stadium, & if he has a repeat of this season, (which I predict his ‘08 offensive numbers won’t be too different) those fans will be on him like a fly on warm *hit. Boras can crunch numbers all he wants. I hope the Dodgers do sign him to a monster contract, & regret it 5 weeks after opening day! robdawg06…..you have excellent taste in music. Bands such as Default, Tantric, Tool are awesome. I’m going to have to listen to some Theory of a Deadman & Smile Empty Soul. Don’t know much about them.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

Rick, now THAT made me laugh….

OK, all you DBTs fans, you won’t guess what I’ve got in my possession. An advance copy of the Truckers’ new CD, “Brighter Than Creation’s Dark,” which isn’t coming out for nearly two months (Jan. 22).

Yes, my man Don at Ella Guru takes care of me. Of course, he seems to get a good portion of my take-home pay, too, so it’s all good. Just bought from him the Graham Parsons archives thing, “Live at the Avalon Ballroom 1969” two-CD set, with The Flying Burrito Brothers, and the Jerry Lee Lewis CD, live on Austin City Limits.

Gonna be some good listening the next few days and on the drive to Nashville.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

My condolences to you Tech fans. The coach doesn’t play on offense or defense. And Tech’s defense is pretty good. UGA and the better ACC teams (Va Tech,UV,BC) just have better athletes. Tashard Choice is a great player though. You’ve got to beat UGA at recruiting if you want to be atop the ACC. With Mark Richt at the helm for the Dawgs, that ain’t happening. You might get the top Atlanta area high school players but UGA rules rural Ga. Tech needs a big name coach to draw in top recruits. John Tenuta ain’t that coach either. I’m just trying to offer you guys some helpful advice. We need Tech to be better each year to improve our strength of schedule in the rankings… Go Dawgs !

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

Richie, guess you’ve missed the part about the Braves giving big prospect Brandon Jones a shot at competing for the left-field job, or a left-field platoon.

They’re not going to block him by bringing in another veteran, I’m pretty sure. B. Jones is ready, or at least he’s very close.

In discussions of Braves needs, LF hasn’t been mentioned by the higher-ups.

By Hotspur

November 27, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

Had a listen to the most recent Firewater record, “The Golden Hour”? The more I hear, the more I love it. (And yeah, it’s about what you’d think after hearing it.)

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

You will thank me for hooking you up with Theory of A Deadman, Yars. Go Braves !

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Your taste in music is excellente too Yars !!!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 27, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Stephen Thanks for video link on Hampton, His arm looked as good as ever but I can see how he pulled that hamstring on the grounder up the middle. Lucky he did not pull a groin on that play.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

Please, no platoons ! I’m going to buy BC a copy of the movie Platoon so he can get his fill. Matt Diaz hits .300 period against righties and lefties. He deserves to play 150 + games. If he falters then platoon him.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

Hammythebrave, I could see them trading for another left fielder, at least a platoon guy, but only if they trade Diaz or B Jones, and I haven’t heard one word about that being considered. Again, Wren has stated several times what Braves’ remaining needs are — LH reliever, CF if they can find another short-term guy, and utility infielder, particularly one who can play SS (Prado and Aybar don’t play SS well enough to handle that part of the assignment).

I’ll let you know more after talks begin and rumors start flying. Right now you’re just drawing names out of a hat and saying this guy makes sense and that one makes sense, and I really don’t want to go through a list of one-fifth of all major league players commenting on whether the Braves might do something when I haven’t heard these names mentioned yet and haven’t heard that they’re shopping Diaz or any other OFs yet.

As for catcher, I’ve written several times what Braves plan to do — get a veteran backup this winter or go with Clint Sammons. Frank Wren said that openly. Now which veteran backup? Again, this is stuff that’s just not happening yet, not percolating yet. When I hear something, I’ll tell you. I promise.

What else? Oh, sorry, only seven questions per day from one blogger.

By doc

November 27, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

david, graham was a year ahead of me in high school. quite a literary talent even in high school. terrible grades, good essays, played the guitar, good sat’s and he was in harvard for his freshman year. didnt last long and became famous to die in the desert in emmy lou’s arms. cant think of a better way than to be close to or buried in her chest as i take my last breath. died too young. great talent but his destiny was there in high school, had to somehow see some of the darkness that went with the talent. wasnt surprised.

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Lew: exactly when do you let the young pitchers get a shot
I’d believe the time for that would be similar to the way it worked for Avery, Smoltz, Glavine, Jason Schmidt, Millwood, Chen, Davies, James, JoJo, etc. all of whom have pitched for Atlanta. I’ve seen tons and tons of Braves pitchers come through Atlanta. Tons of them. Not sure why signing or trading for veterans means we will never again see a player the Braves drafted. The only thing I don’t want to see is all our young pitchers in the rotation at the same time. 5 guys with 2 years or so of MLB experience sounds like the Pirates.
When do we use the young talent? As always. We get a good mix of accomplished veterans and young guys just like in 1991-2005. Call me crazy but it seemed to work well for the better part of a decade and a half.

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

Lew

Regarding your 5:03 post.

I think the Braves will be fine. But the Rockies. D-Backs and Brewers have better young players. Doesn’t mean that will translate into Championships, but the guys they have are better. The Braves need to spend money to grab a guy like Peavy, Bedard, Penny etc. over the next couple years. They haven’t yet developed a starter to put at the front of the rotation such as Cole Hamels, Felix Hernandez, someone like that. You’ve said it yourself, Smoltz isn’t a #1 any longer. Hudson hasn’t been that for years. That said, the Braves need to grab one of those guys. Maybe Rohrbough, Locke or Hanson develop into one, but until then, lets spend some serious cash on either Peavy or Bedard in the offseason after 2009. Of course, that is 2 years away. Plenty of things can happen.

I like this team for 2008, but the offseason before the 2009 season will be one of the biggest offseason’s for this teams future. Either they resign Tex, or they don’t and spend the money on other needs.

By Yars

November 27, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

DOB…..if you have time, try to check out Grimey’s. It’s a used record store in Nashville. They have some really neat stuff there. Everything from pop, folk, country, rock, metal, dance, ect… Lots of vinyl, cd’s, bootlegs, ect… I visited a friend of mine in Hendersonville, TN couple years back & was able to go to Grimey’s. Came across some Depeche Mode, Cure bootlegs that have really clear sound quality. I was, & still am amazed.

By DonCoburleone

November 27, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Platoons are a good thing robdawg. We have to get Jones’ some at-bats next year to see exactly what we got. And he is clearly not a center-fielder and he clearly will not take any time away from Jeff Francoeur in right field. A Diaz/Jones platoon works perfectly. Diaz is going to be without question our best pinch hitter next season (when he’s not starting), and don’t underestimate the value of a great pinch hitter…

By DonCoburleone

November 27, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Whats with this seemingly insatiable love-fest for these New York Yankee prospects?

Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy = Jason Isringhausen, Paul Wilson and Bill Pulsipher….

It is amazing how OVERHYPED New York prospects get. Joba has all of what, 25 ML innings under his belt? Phil Hughes had one great start before he pulled a Hammy, and was mediocre (at best) when he came back… And don’t even get me started on Ian Kennedy. The kid is AT BEST a future Carlos Silva. But Yankee fans have all 3 of these guys already pegged for Cooperstown. I heard on a sports talk show today that the Yankees would be “crazy” to give up Joba Chamberlain for Johan Santana straigt up!?!$%#@@!!! JOHAN SANTANA!!!

Tell me DOB and others, are we that big a Homers when it comes to Braves prospects? There is no way we are is there?

By GermanBravesFan

November 27, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

It’s a slow Tuesday afternoon on the West Coast and I got nothing better to do, I want to throw out a name that came up today as being available in a trade: Mark Prior. Would it be worth even considering it? Just a thought…

By DJ

November 27, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

The only way the Mets get Santana is if they give Reyes up. I would rather see Santana every 5th day then Reyes leading off

By your phreaking daddy

November 27, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

you know, it is really sad the way you morons talk about mike hampton. that guy is a great pitcher and a top-notch competitor. you gomers talk like he WANTS to be injured OR that it is somehow his FAULT that people were willing to pay him a butt-load of money to play baseball. so he is eating into the braves payroll, that is the chance you take when you sign players. what if your employer wanted to fire you if you missed work because of an accident or illness, or your wife when she had a baby; you would be p**, huh? and don’t give me the ‘not if i made that much money’ crap. you would make that much money if anybody was interested in watching you mount tires, or flip burgers, or whatever you do. so STFU about mike hampton and worry about something that could still be avoided; like going into another season with a bench like last years…

By chris

November 27, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

Stephen: thanks for the 6:33 post. It looks like Hampton strained his hamstring on the hit up the middle. On his right leg. He looked great. I can understand why he was estatic over how his arm felt.

By mraver

November 27, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

DOB- Just a quick question. You heard anything about Brayan Pena and what the plans are for him? It seems like management has given up on him as a C, and last I heard they were trying him out around the IF. Frankly, I don’t think he’ll hit enough to be anything but a C assuming his defense in other spots isn’t above-average. Does he have a realistic shot at ever contributing at the ML level?

By Efrim

November 27, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

DONC

Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy = Jason Isringhausen, Paul Wilson and Bill Pulsipher�.

Thats a little much man. Have you seen Joba pitch??? Hughes?? Kennedy? They sure have the stuff to be front of the rotation type starters. If they get hurt, than thats another thing, but they have all faced major league hitting and have done a pretty good job.

Tell me DOB and others, are we that big a Homers when it comes to Braves prospects? There is no way we are is there?

Every team’s fans overvalue their own prospects. That is why you are a fan of the team. Do you think Rockies fans think Tulowitzski is a better hitter than Frenchy??? You bet they do.

By stampera

November 27, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

yeah, i’d take prior over hampton…

while neither of them will be available opening day 2008, prior will cost a whole lot less.

sign em up!

By richie

November 27, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

DOB - I am not saying to trade for Bay to block Jones. As it stands,right now, we have Harris, B.Jones and Diaz in LF. We have Anderson & Schafer supposedly for CF. And Frecnhy in RF. We are trying to get a “stop gap” centerfielder. I dont believe any player wants to come here with a lame duck mentality on their mind, knowing your a just keeping a seat warm. I think it is easier to trade B.Jones, have an everyday player in LF( like Bay) and go with Anderson or Schafer in CF. Then we dont need a stop gap center. The kids are fast, I saw Anderson play against us the last series of the season. Saw him make a diving catch on a Chipper line drive when he was trying to win the batting title. He actually took a couple of hits from him that series too. What do you think DOB?

By Lew

November 27, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-And that’s not what we are doing right now? I kind of thought we WERE using a mix of young guys and veterans. Aren’t Smoltz, Glavine and Hudson veterans? James will be a third year pitcher. So just where are we using all young guys? Seems to me that if you let Reyes, Jurrjens and Bennett start NOW, then when Smoltz, and Hudson are gone, then James, Reyes and Jurrjens will be the veterans. Why exactly do you feel the need to run out and grab whomever you can find now, when you may have a much better selection in a year, when all of this money you and others keep mentioning will be freed up?

I repeat-We need to spend those Many millions more making certain we lock up Tex (which is not, I think, as farfetched as some seem to think) and to lock up Francouer long term. I also think that the young pitchers we have coming up now and in the next several years are a cut above what we have had in the past decade or so.

By BossLady

November 27, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

DOB, are you saying that Andruw can enforce his 10 & 5 to force the Braves to arbitrate with him for more money? Can the arbitrator also force the Braves to increase their offer. I thought he was gone, but it seems like you are saying he can wait until the negotiators settle on money. Also, I thought if he enforced his 10 & 5 he would have to take what they gave him as salary. I enjoy the sport and don’t know a thing about board room sports. Thanks

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Richie, who cares if a player does or doesn’t want to be a stopgap? You trade for him, you put him in center field, he does his job.

You don’t trade a top prospect (Brandon Jones) for just anything. He’s very good….

GermanBravesFan, I don’t think Prior would be worth considering even if the Braves were looking for a starter, which they’re not. Prior has been hurt almost as much as Hampton the past three years.

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Richie, who cares if a player does or doesn’t want to be a stopgap? You trade for him, you put him in center field, he does his job.

You don’t trade a top prospect (Brandon Jones) for just anything. He’s very good….

By scotty

November 27, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

DOB I was reading that Oakland might package both Haren and Blanton for the right price. I was wondering if the Braves might try to deal for them given the age and health concerns of the staff. You would have two proven starters. There was some speculation that Huston Street might also be dealt.

By chris

November 27, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with Diaz? He hits over .300 with both righties and lefties; he hits in the clutch; he doesn’t go into slumps; has a fine OPS; he’s cheap. Trade him? You’re living in Crazytown.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Boss Lady-The way arbitration works is that the team assigns an amount and the player submits an amount. The arbitrator decides which of these figures the player will get. There is no deviation or averaging a middle number. It is one or the other if the team offers arbitration and the player accepts.

By Lew

November 27, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

At least that’s the way I THINK it works. If I’m wrong, I’m certain I will be informed in due course.

By Greg in TN

November 27, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Evening folks…

Stephen, thanks for the 6:33 post and the video on Hampton’s outing. I think he pitched well in the first, saw nothing wrong with his location and I saw the play where he injured the hamstring on the worm burner up the middle by Armondo Rios. He slipped on the mound and his legs went in opposite directions. I feel better about the injury than I did when we first found out about it because something like that can happen to anyone. It’s not like he did it jogging over to first or off the mound at the end of the inning. That and the fact that he stayed in to face the last batter of the inning and was able to move dirt around the mound prior to the last batter, and I believe he’ll be able to recover in time for ST. Nothing is a given, and he could very well have issues once stateside, but I’m not ready to write him off until we see more at Dark Star.

I like the idea of signing Frenchy to a long term deal and being as aggressive as possible with Tex next off season. I don’t necessarily believe he’s gone and I feel like we can make a very competitive offer at this point, but there’s spring training, 162 games of baseball and post-season to go through before looking at what should be done to keep him.

If it were a few extra million to keep Mahay on the payroll, I don’t think FW would worry about that, however with the Yankees involved and needing bullpen help, I doubt very seriously that it’d just be a few extra million.

By chrisklob

November 27, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

**Lew, you are correct in your explanation of the arbitration process except that even after arbitration is offered by the team and accepted by the player, they can still strike a deal before actually sitting down with the arbitrator.

By Shamus Thacker

November 27, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

If Hampton played football he’d be paralyzed, maybe even killed, on the first snap…

Bronc riding is definitely not his future, but neither is baseball, unfortunately…

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

You will get .300 with pop from Matt Diaz. Jones can’t do any better, only worse. Why give a guy a look when you’ve got a great player to cover the position ? I’ve always hated how Bobby platooned players. His worst platoon was Ryan Klesko in LF. Klesko left to the Padres and put up career numbers when given the chance to start everyday. Now he is going mess up Diaz career platooning him. There’s no justification for platooning Diaz. He hits .300 against righties and lefties.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

By BosnianBaller

November 27, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB if you were the braves gm would u make a trade for blanton or haren.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

I’d ask to be traded if I wasn’t given the full time LF position after hitting .300 Diaz is getting screwed with a platoon.

By chris

November 27, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Greg: that’s exactly what I thought after seeing the video. It happened to his right leg, which is better. He looked good. Nothing seems wrong with the arm. It was good to see that he wasn’t tentative with it.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

I bet the Rockies are sick they will have to pay Hampton $9 million in 2009. He ain’t worth $9 dollars…

By Greg in TN

November 27, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Chris,

Right there with you, no guarantees at all that he won’t be effective or something else happens in Florida, but I don’t see anything that wouldn’t have happened to a lot of guys out there with a slip on the mound like that.

Time will tell.

By Shamus Thacker

November 27, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Baseball salaries are becoming ridiculous by any measure. Fans are eventually gonna lose ANY feeling of a common ground with players. The team/game means less and less, money becoming THE MOST, AND SOMETIMES ONLY, important thing…

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Why don’t the Braves platoon managers if Bobby likes it so much ? Bobby manages Monday’s & Tuesday’s ,Hubbard Wednesday’s and Thursday’s,and Pendleton on Friday’s,Saturday’s,and Sunday’s ?

Heck, I want Glenn Hubbard as full-time manager anyway.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

I totally agree Shamus ! Arod got another $30 million in endorsements from the Yankees in addition to his newly signed 10 year multi-million dollar contract. Who pays for these outlandish salaries ? The fans do. Instead of giving players more money the owners should lower ticket prices to games. MLB should be like the NFL in sharing revenues. Any team in the NFL can win. Its not an even playing field in MLB. Arod makes more per year than the entire K.C. Royals team makes !!! The Yankees,Red Sox,Mets,and Angels with the $200+ million payrolls are BUYING championships instead of earning them.

By BossLady

November 27, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks LEW and Chrisklob I just thought Andruw was gone and it was a done deal.

By Braveheart

November 27, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Diaz, bases empty, 2007: .923 OPS.

Bases empty, 2006: .958 OPS.

Runners on base, 2006: .687 OPS.

Runners on base, 2007: .790 OPS.

Scoring position, 2006: .620 OPS.

Scoring position, 2007: .695 OPS.

First 6 innings, 2007: 1.046 OPS.

First 6 innings, 2006: .889 OPS.

7th inning on, 2006: .778 OPS.

7th inning on, 2007: .605 OPS.

Bases loaded, last 3 seasons: .519 OPS.

By robdawg06

November 27, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

No matter how good Arod is supposed to be he gets 4 at bats avg. per game. His 15 more homeruns and 20 more rbi’s per year than the next best player ain’t worth $10 million more bucks ! Pro athletes,actors,singers,etc. don’t live in the real world. We pay dearly for their entertainment. I think Reese Witherspoon gets $10 million minimum per movie she makes. Pro Sports is too much like Hollywood !

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 27, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

Good read of an interview of Billy Wagner from the Mets. He doesn’t seem to be happy with much of anything going on the mets eam or off seaon plans.
Mets Wagner interview

By Kentavo

November 27, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

How about platooning Cox in the same game - pulling him in the late innings when key decisions have to be made?

By richie

November 27, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

Jason Bay is not anybody. We both know this, DOB. We have 2 positions to fill in essence. We arent secure in Cf or Lf. We can shore up the bench and the starting line up with the addition of Bay. You know this as well. He is a good OF’er, as you can see from the 2 yrs of double digits assists. Would replace the production from the loss of Andruw. I think this move would another to help us get to and possibly win the World Series, not just win the East or get the playoffs. We have had the proper emphasis placed on our starting pitching. We needed to. I honestly think the Glavine addition will be great for us now and next year as well. But we are 2 players away from a WS right now. 1 hitter and 1 more starting pitcher. There would be a lot plusses from the addition of Bay. Tex we be protected, especially if Chipper were to go down again. And we dont lose production from Chipper being out of the lineup either. It would also allow McCann and Frenchy the opportunity to continue to grow. Plus, we have Schafer, Heyward and Cody Johnson coming up for the future. Why not use him as a chip to acquire someone, if there is someone available to help us get better. What do you think DOB?

By GermanBravesFan

November 27, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

ROBDAWG: I thought Hampton was a free agent after the ‘08 season? Why would the Rockies still have to pay him in ‘09? DOB: aren’t the Braves responsible for Hampton’s entire salary this season? I think so, too, that Prior was a stretch since he’s extremely injury prone as well.

One more question: since the Braves are looking for a lefty reliever, would it make sense to use one of their young starters (Reyes, James)in that role?

By brent a.

November 27, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the Hampton Youtube link.

Wonder if he hurt his hammy when he stuck his leg out on that single up the middle?

By David O'Brien

November 27, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Lew, you’re correct. only thing you left out about arbitration is that the sides usually settle before it goes to a hearing, usually around the midpoint between their two exchanged salary figures. They can negotiate literally right up until the minute before their hearing begins.

By TennesseePaul

November 27, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

And that�s not what we are doing right now?
Who said we weren’t doing this now? All I’m saying is, all nastolgia aside, I’d rather had acquired Haren or Blanton instead of Glavine. I’m not sure how that prevents young pitchers from coming up. The one thing it does do is provide a good veteran that should still be with the team by the time these young prospects actually do come up. Glavine sure won’t be here. Smoltz will eventually retire. Hudson could easily move on. But getting a young guy that is very good and you have control over for many more years is a good thing. Not sure why that is being spun as a way not to go.

Same goes with CF. Yes, we have a gazzillion prospects for the position now. The odds of one of them amounting to more than a hill of beans has improved. But that doesn’t mean acquiring a great player for the mean time should be avoided. We have many millions this year right? Get a good player and trade him when the prospect comes up… a-la Renteria.

Signing Teixeira would be great. Even if we spend several million this offseason, we’ll have several more next off season due to the fact that Hampton and Glavine won’t be on the team. And had we traded for Haren, we’d have a top of the rotation guy for cheep next year easing the blow to the rotation. Then more money could be focused on Teixeira.

By chrisklob

November 27, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Bosslady, AJ IS gone, and it’s a done deal. He doesn’t have the right to force Atlanta to go to arbitration because of his 10/5 status. The Braves could offer arbitration but won’t. The only reason at this point is to save the draft compensation pick but since he’s a Type B player they only get a sandwich pick between the first and second round anyway. No way they gamble on arbitration and have him accept it. Remember a few years ago they offered Maddux arbitration and it came back to bite JS in the backside? They had to move Kevin Millwood that offseason to afford Maddux in his last year with ATL.

Greg in TN, what’s up friend? I have to agree. I watched the video and it looks to me like a fluke the way his legs split. I was looking at the infield grass and a few other spots that were visible in the video, which wasn’t great quality. Didn’t exactly look like MLB quality stuff. Makes you wonder what condition the mound might have been in. Just something to ponder….

By chrisklob

November 27, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, you see anything wrong with those numbers?

By GermanBravesFan

November 27, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul: trading for Haren means that he’s actually available…

By GermanBravesFan

November 27, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul: trading for Haren means that he’s actually available…

By richie

November 27, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, i see his numbers are decreasing with more AB’s…now imagine that as an everyday player.

By Greg in TN

November 27, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

Hey chrisklob! Always good to see a post from my friend from SC. Hope your Thanksgiving was well in your world.

You are correct in that the quality of the video wasn’t the best. Not sure about the composition of the dirt on that particular field, however it was quite dark on my monitor and I saw Hampton working on the front end of the mound after his slip. That really speaks to me that the footing on the mound wasn’t good at all in the first inning of that game (perhaps a little too much water by the grounds crew?).

The other thing I was thinking about was all the advertisements on the uniforms. It almost looked like NASCAR got into baseball.

By chrisklob

November 28, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

richie,

Matt Diaz in 2006 played in 124 games, had 297 AB’s, scored 37 runs, had 97 hits, 7HR, 32 RBI, and posted these numbers: .327 .364 .475 114 (OPS+)

In 2007 this is what he did: 135 games, 358 AB’s, 44 runs scored, 121 hits, 12 HR, 45 RBI, and posted these numbers: .338 .368 .497 124(OPS+)

Funny, I don’t see numbers decreasing with an increase in AB’s.

By chrisklob

November 28, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

Greg in TN, hey buddy, always good to hear from you. Funny, I was looking at that video and thinking the exact same thing. They’re only a few sponsors away from being NASCAR-like in appearance!

By mike

November 28, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Good point chris, regardless of how many at bats diaz gets the dude is going to hit. Im not sure that he would have the 20 hr power that most people want out of an everyday corner outfielder but who cares. He keeps getting better offensively and defensively, he’s come up with a lot of big hits, and he seems to have the character that this organization values

By TexasBrave

November 28, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

DOB - Why wouldn’t the Braves make an offer to Mahay before arbitration? I understand he has a lot to gain on the open market but why let another team get first crack at him? Let’s show him that we are very interested in him coming back. Perhaps we can offer him enough money, within reason, that he would want to stay.

BTW when does the arbitration process occur?

By mike

November 28, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

Richie, I actually don’t think your idea is that bad. I kind of thought about Jason Bay as a Brave when the Pirates first mentioned that he would be available. It won’t happen because the Braves are happy with their left fielders and have other needs but how bout a trade of Diaz, B Jones, Lillibridge, and Chuck James for Jason Bay and Ian Snell? Then Blanco and Anderson could duke it out at CF and leadoff. How bout a lineup of KJohnson, Escobar, CJones, Texeira, J. Bay, Mccann, Francoeur, and Blanco. In 09 you can just replace Blanco with Schaeffer

A rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Snell, Jurrjens, Reyes, Bennett

I know its a stretch but fun to think about it

By Roman Gal

November 28, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this

Colorado Braves Fan, I have to say I agree with what Billy Wagner had to say. I think he makes some good points…

By N8

November 28, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

DOB

Sorry to be “out of the loop” and not know what’s goin’ down. I’ve read where you said for a backup catcher the Braves were/are gonna try and find a veteran backup or go with Clint Sammons.

Now I remember reading that Sammons could play a bit (maybe something you wrote about him).

But my question is as follows:

What’s up with Brayan Pena???

Is he a free agent? Did we already trade him? Are they planning on him being a utitlity guy? Is he out of options? Is he NOT in the picture at all?

Have all of these questions been asked 1000 times? LOL!

Just curious. Guy seemed like he could play multiple positions and might be a nice addition for our bench. Weren’t the Braves playing him ALL OVER the field at Richmond?

Like I said. Just curious.

L8r.

By uga-brave

November 28, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

still would love to see the braves make a run at cory hart. fills two needs cf. and he could hit leadoff. at some point the braves are gonna have to make good on their word about payroll. make the trade for hart until shafer is ready. second, they really need to step up and give mahay the money. really dont see gonzo ready until after the all-star break.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 28, 2007 1:19 AM | Link to this

Just watched the Hampton video clip and it left no doubt that the man can still pitch. The injury looked a little fluky and not as serious as it turned out to be. It’s to bad that he had to shut it down for the winter after just one inning.

Brayan Pena is playing winter ball in Venezuela. He is currently hitting .302 with 3 HR’s and 18 RBI in 106 at bats.

By NOLIE

November 28, 2007 1:31 AM | Link to this

By Braveheart

November 27, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Diaz, bases empty, 2007: .923 OPS.

Bases empty, 2006: .958 OPS.

Runners on base, 2006: .687 OPS.

Runners on base, 2007: .790 OPS

YEAH, I’M NOT TOTALLY SOLD ON DIAZ EITHER AND I’M A SEMINOLES FAN. HE’S NEVER BEEN A RUN PRODUCER AND HE WALKS EVEN LESS THAN JEFFY…IF HIS BA GOES SOUTH AT ALL SO WILL HIS OBP. I’M NOT SAYING THAT HE’S TRASH, BUT I HAVE NO PROBLEM PLATOONING HIM WITH JONES TO SEE HOW JONES LOOKS. AS FOR KLESKO WHO WAS MENTIONED EARLIER BY SOMEONE ELSE RE PLATOON, HE HAD ONE YEAR OR SO IN SAN DIEGO WHERE HE HIT LEFTIES OK(THOUGH NOT ALL THAT GREAT) AND MOST OF THE REST OF THE TIME HE STUNK, HE WAS IN FACT THE TYPE OF PLAYER WHO BENEFITS BEST FROM A PLATOON

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 28, 2007 1:42 AM | Link to this

Cory Hart is primarily a corner outfielder who is currently the Brewers starting right fielder. The last time I checked , the Braves had a pretty good right fielder of their own.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 28, 2007 1:49 AM | Link to this

From what I have read , the Braves expect that Hampton’s hamstring will take 4-6 weeks to heal. There is still four months of baseball left in the Mexican winter league season. It’s possible that Hampton can get some more work (innings) down in Mexico before spring training.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 28, 2007 2:05 AM | Link to this

Matt Diaz can hit in a phone booth.

his 2001 season : .328

his 2003 season : .354

his 2004 season : .332

his 2005 season : .366

The man finished with a career .315 BA in the minors.

He hit .327 and .338 in 06-07 playing for the Braves. Diaz has a career .320 BA in the majors.

Some smart GM in the A.L is gonna wake up , smell the coffee and realize this kid has DH written all over him.

By ronp

November 28, 2007 3:52 AM | Link to this

So much for Scott Boras..he’s led Andruw down a blind alley..when will AJ wake up?

Hampton is done if he can’t pitch by June..Glavine will be a work horse and Chuck James is gaining experience and will come around.

Mahay is a must for the bull pen and the Aussie showed his stuff last season…can he continue? Don’t forget Devine is still in the system.

The offense will score plenty of runs so success of this team rests with the defense.

By dragrace79

November 28, 2007 5:30 AM | Link to this

hampton didnt look bad, did he? the old sinker was sinking. granted, this was not a powerhouse ML lineup he faced, but still, his location seemed very good and that sinker was dropping off the table. velocity seemed good too. the injury doesnt bother me like it did when i read about it now that i saw video. this one wasnt because he is made of glass or whatever. those who looked at the clip will know what i mean. his stuff did look good.

By NOLIE

November 28, 2007 5:47 AM | Link to this

The offense will score plenty of runs so success of this team rests with the defense.RONP

I’M NOT SO SURE THAT THEY WILL SCORE NEARLY AS MANY RUNS AS THEY DID LAST SEASON. WHAT WITH LOSING ANDRUW AND RENTARIA. ONLY MCCANN OF THOSE RETURNING HAD A DOWN YEAR AND MIGHT BE EXPECTED TO PICK IT UP THIS SEASON. DOUBTFUL THAT ESCOBAR ALONE WILL MATCH WHAT SS PUT UP LAST SEASON. SO FAR I’M NOT ALL THAT SOLD ON THIS BEING A MUCH BETTER TEAM THAN ‘07. THE POSSIBILITY IS THERE IF MOST THINGS GO RIGHT AND EVERYBODY STAYS HEALTHY, BUT I KNOW HOW MUCH MURPHY(AND I DON’T MEAN DALE) LIKES TO PLAY TOO DURING THE SEASON

By ncgary

November 28, 2007 6:10 AM | Link to this

christmas wish list , haren or peavey peavey for tex? throw in bennet

By dragrace79

November 28, 2007 6:29 AM | Link to this

for gods sake. i dont post often at all, but some of these proposed trades are killing me. i would love to trade scott thorman and a player to be named later for joe blanton, dan haren, and an undisclosed amount of cash. maybe the rays will take prado for kazmir. if they dont, im sure the orioles will take him for bedard. they’ll throw in brian roberts, since we wanted him last year and we can convert him to a catcher to back up mccann, but platoon him in center too. again, i’m obviously not a regular poster, but am a daily reader. this was not directed at the majority out there. for the most part, this is a well educated and informed group of baseball fans that i enjoy hearing opinions from, although i dont frequently reply. but please, to some of you out there, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

By Braveheart

November 28, 2007 6:42 AM | Link to this

Matt Diaz may be able to hit in a phone booth. Unfortunately, he seems to stop hitting when there are men on base or in scoring position or when the bases are loaded. I think Diaz should be a starter and enough already with this Cox platoon crapola but his decreased ability to hit with men on base and in scoring position is troubling and hard to figure out. What is the point of a high average guy who can’t run, can’t take a walk, does not steal bases, and does not drive in runs because he can’t buy a hit with men on base?

By richie

November 28, 2007 7:00 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, Thank you i thought it was just me. He was a great hitter in the beginning of games. He had flashes of late hits, here and there. You have to look at the game within the game. If a player goes hits 3 for 5, but get hits in his 1st 3 ab’s, those hits/ab’s may not have an effect on the game…but in the clutch he went 0 for 2…and the ab’s were RBI opportunities then what does that say about that player? He doesnt hit well in late RBI situations, which I saw plenty of from Diaz last year. Just a thought guys

By richie

November 28, 2007 7:09 AM | Link to this

Thank you, Mike. It was only a suggestion. I am just saying if he is available, then why not try to get him? I just want to have the same production last year and right now as it stands with the departures of Renteria and Andruw we dont have it.

By chris

November 28, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

Here’s what Diaz did in the clutch last year:

.500 - bases loaded(10 AB’s) .226 - scoring positn, 2 out(53 AB’s) .288 - close and late (73) .274 - men on, 2 out (84) .287 - scoring position (87)

I can see how one would get the impression that he doesn’t hit late in the game and in the clutch, as he sets our expectations so high. That he does so speaks well for him.

Not that Diaz is a future hall of famer, but I remember Boggs getting the same kind treatment when he first came up. He didn’t look like an athlete, he couldn’t run or field well, and people said he couldn’t hit in the clutch. He was old for a rookie and he platooned for a while before he was given a regular position.

It would be nice to see Diaz play full-time this year. I doubt that will happen and it wouldn’t surprise me if he were traded.

By ncscoots

November 28, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this

TPaul, thanks for those splits on Kala. I figured there would be some disparity (accounting for ball park, HA!), but didn’t know it was that great. That puts a slightly different look on what I was saying earlier, so just have to see if he adjusts at AA this year.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 28, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

Good morning all, Boy, sure a lot of useless conjecture on the blog last night. Why is it that so many think platooning a player is a bad thing? Still thinking like a bunch of little league dads? Broaden your horizons not to mention your baseball acumen by reading Mark Bowman’s article on Billy Southworth over on the Atlanta Braves.com sight.

He understood what the platoon was all about. And enough of this “I want what I want and I want it now” crapola. I feel as if the blog has been invaded by a bunch of 15 year olds.

As for Diaz, always have liked him. He is a good player. He has shown marked improvement as an outfielder and is a good player off the bench. Not clutch? What planet are you from?

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this

I wonder what the Braves would have to give up to get Melky Cabrera???

By nOLIE

November 28, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

I wonder what the Braves would have to give up to get Melky Cabrera???Efrim

a lot more than they would to get DeJesus who is at least as good a player

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

Well-reasoned post, Gil. Couldn’t have come at a better time.

By nOLIE

November 28, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Not clutch? What planet are you from Gil

I don’t know Gil, when someone says clutch hitter to me I think of a guy who hits at least as well in pressure situations as he does other times, or close anyway. Diaz’s OPS is 100+ points lower at least in situational hitting than it is when the bases are empty, actually more than that in most cases. He’s not a bust in those situations, but it’s not a performance that brings the term ‘clutch’ to my mind either. I think he’s a pretty decent player whose one main asset so far has been BA but his OBP is not all that hot even so. and that BA might be a tad misleading too as per when it is often performed. He’s a more that adequate hitter in the 7 or 8 spot.

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

TennPaul, it’s not a given that Glavine won’t be back beyond 2008. Cox has already said he believes Glavine has more in him, that being back with Braves could influence his decision to keep pitching, and that he (Cox) hopes he’ll be back for more than one season. I have no idea if that’s likely or not. Just telling you what’s been said….

TexasBrave, I don’t know why Braves wouldn’t make an offer to Mahay before Saturday, or whether they plan to. I’ll call his agent again before then, but so far, it sounded like they were sitting back and waiting to see what the market looked like before coming in with an offer that wasn’t reasonable. Understand, there was NO WAY Mahay was going to re-sign with the Braves without waiting to see what teams like the Yankees had to offer. He came this far, got his free agency, so he was surely going to test the waters, unless the Braves just came in with an extremely high offer he knew he couldn’t beat elsewhere (and there was zero chance that was going to happen, the extremely high offer part from the Braves)….

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

N8, you asked if Pena is a free agent? I’m gonna assume you’re being serious.

N8, Pena is barely halfway to arbitration. The dude’s got only about 1.5 years of major league service.

He’s more than three full seasons away from free agency. He’ll barely make over the minimum for any time in majors in 2008.

And yes, he’s now out of options. I’d not be surprised at all if he’s traded, since I don’t see where he fits on the Braves. He’d probably get snatched up if they tried sending him to Triple-A.

By Forrest Gump

November 28, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

I think Hampton is a good guy who made a contribution to the Braves in the past, but this is ridiculous. I suppose that the Braves can’t do anything about it, and Hampton is trying to roll the rock up the hill but going nowhere.

By chris

November 28, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

nOLIE: By your reasoning, if a .400 hitter hit “only” .350 in clutch situations, then he’s not a clutch hitter.

Anyway, I realize you’re not saying that he’s a bad player. But give him more credit. There may be better candidates for higher spots in the order, but this guy is better than a mere #8 hitter. A .368 OBP is hardly terrible.

By David-ATL14

November 28, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Trade Thorman and keep Pena. Pena would be much better suited to hitting off the bench. He could play 1B the 7-10 games Tex is rested if that many. No sense, common or financial in going after a vet to back up Tex.

Thorman will never hit in a bench role. That long chopping wood swing has to be managed daily. Absolutely zero help in limited situations.

Also Pena adds the ability to actually be the third catcher if the need arises. None of this Matt Diaz as the emergency catcher. Pena’s inclusion on the roster could also help with being able to pinch run late in the game for McCann.Just a few little things that could be helped by Pena being here over Thorman.He’s also hit everwhere he’s ever been. Switch hitter is a useful skill also.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

I agree, trade Thorman and keep Pena.

I really hope the Mets don’t trade for Bedard. I think that there is no chance in hell that they get Santana. Haren is a possibility, Blanton is vastly overrated. Bedard is special though. They would have him for the next two seasons. He is a strike out machine.

By nOLIE

November 28, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

By your reasoning, if a .400 hitter hit �only� .350 in clutch situations, then he�s not a clutch hitter.Chris

yep thats true. In whatever sport be it baseball and pool which I have a good bit of experience in, or any other if you regularly perform lower in tight situations than you do in normal ones you aren’t clutch. In pool you’d be a fish or a choker depending kinda on you level. I’m certainly not saying that about Diaz, just that IMO he’s not a guy that is ‘clutch’, just as he’s not a guy who is a dud. As to slot, I said 7 or 8 and he is fine at 7 in a good lineup and perhaps 6 in an average one. I’m not ruling out #2 completely either, though he is really too much of a free swinger for early in the order.Put him in 7th and get DeJesus or use Anderson etc in the 8th slot. ok by me. I’m certainly not advocating dumping him. I watched him hit at Fla St and have followed him since. I thought he might hit for a bit less average and a little more power than he has shown so far, which would be a more normal corner OFer. You’re right a .368 is not terrible, but it’s not as great as it could be if he walked at a decent rate. Actually I’m looking forward to seeing how he does this year as I think he has some batting habits that could be exploited better by pitchers. Hope I don’t see that happen.

By dcarp23

November 28, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

DOB-just out of curiousity, have you ever noticed guys like Mahay or Kevin Millar treated differently but the other players? If I recall correctly, both were “scabs” during the ‘94 strike, and as such are no longer in the union. Does this matter at this point in their careers, or has it been so long that it is water under the bridge?

By TennesseePaul

November 28, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

DOB: We’ll have to see how he does this season. He could do well but be spent by the end of the season and not want to come back. He could be reborn. I don’t know. But I don’t think he’ll be around by the time the rookie ball pitchers are ready to take over the top of the rotation. Well, if he is then the Rookie ball pitchers will have to take over the top of the rotation cause Glavine certainly isn’t going to do it.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 28, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

I just read where Ken Rosenthal says the Braves may have some interest in Melkey Cabrera and that the Yankees are looking into possibly trading him even if he isn’t part of a Johan Santana deal. They want to move Damon back to center since they are stuck with him and Matsui.

I think Cabrera would be perfect in CF until Schafer is ready. He would also serve as protection in case B. Jones doesn’t play like they are hoping he will. I realize the Braves would have a gluttony of outfielders. But, if B. Jones does play well Cabrera could always be traded next year or even Jones who may have more value.

By TennesseePaul

November 28, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Diaz and Clutch. He seems to me to be more of a rally instigator than a starter. Not the guy that knocks in the run, but the guy that gets on and extends the inning with some stupid looking swing. Just about everything he does on the field is awkward looking. But he gets it done and I don’t mind having him on the team. He’s a good player to platoon with.

By Embizzel

November 28, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

DOB, Have you ever heard of BRAND NEW. They are amazing. By reading your blog, it looks like you’ve got quite an array of music interests. BRAND NEW… there are just no words to describe. And since they aren’t over produced, their live stuff is as good, if not better, than the albums.

By Wayne in Utah

November 28, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Yes, I know, I will be ripped for even bringing this up. But, hey, this is a blog. I am NOT the GM.

Last year, we needed a pitcher in a bad way at the deadline, and instead went for the bat for Salty and others, cause Salty wasn’t going to fit at first, and we already had an All-Star catcher. Ideally, we would have traded for a strong pitcher.

Here’s the question: Would Baltimore take Teixeira for Bedard? (yes, I know, the Braves are not going to trade Tex.)

Just thinking out loud.

Though they are not looking for another starter, for reasons mentioned here a thousand times, it would be nice to have a guy like Bedard, Haren or Peavey.

If I were the GM, I would be working this one, even if it never worked out, I would be working it.

Gil thanks for the answer to the Doug Clark question yesterday.

By Wayne in Utah

November 28, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

I wonder if a guy like Mark Teahen of KC would be available?? He would be a decent bat (not a lot of power) for the corner outfield, third, and maybe first base. He might could be had for someone like Cormier. Also, if we assumed Randy Winn’s full salary (we do have $$ to spend), could he be had without giving up anybody significant? Remember, we would be assuming his full salary for two years.

By chris

November 28, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

By the way, Diaz’s OPS was third best on a damned good hitting team last year.

By Jim

November 28, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

I was a Milwaukee Braves fan during my years growing up in the 50’s and 60’s when Buhl, Burdett, and Spahn were the nucleus of a good 4-man rotation from 53 to 61 or 62, during the late 50’s they had promising rookies Juan Pizzaro, Joey Jay, and Carlton Willey. None of the three could break into the rotation on a consistent basis and were eventually traded away. Pizzaro went on to win 20 games and lead the White Sox into the 59 WS., Jay became a 20 game winner for the Reds of the early 60’s (that played in the WS against the mighty 61 Yanks), and Willey ended up with the expansion Mets. In the meantime, the great trio became old, and by the end of ‘63 (Spahn’s last big year), were playing out their careers for other teams. We don’t know whether James, Reyes, or Jurjjens will ever become big winners, but I hope we don’t risk staying too long with the past to find out while they’re doing it for other teams.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

TenPaul- Agreed about Diaz. He has excelled in the platoon situation the past two years and should work great yet again with Brandon Jones platooning with him.

Efrim-Who exactly do you see the Mets trading for Bedard, Santana, or anyone else, for that matter. Go read the interview that someone linked to last night and read Billy Wagner’s comments. He says exactly what I have been saying all along-the Mets can’t afford to trade any of their young guys, Milledge, Heilman, etc. and live to tell about it. Wagner is already having a duck over having to replace Glavine. Sorry, Dude, Omar may need to pull off a miracle to keep his job, but it will kill the Mets for years to come if he goes trying to win it all now. Read the article.

By Wayne in Utah

November 28, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

OK, here is my last trade idea for general discussion. Washington needs a catcher. Could Brayan Pena (and maybe a mid-level prospect) bring Ryan Church? He would be an OK CF’er and could be a LF if Schafer was ready.

Is anyone else a tad bit concerned about LF like I am? I love Diaz, but he questionable as a regular. He might also be trade bait to an AL club. Brandon Jones, while full of talent, is unproven. Just thinking out loud.

By ncscoots

November 28, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Gil, not to be snarky, but useless conjecture is pretty much the reason behind this whole blog thing, LOL. If it weren’t for that, we’d have slim pickings for posts, no? :-)

By Wayne in Utah

November 28, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

dcarp23 Being an anti-union guy, I think we should either sign or trade for as many scabs as we can find!

By nOLIE

November 28, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

By the way, Diaz�s OPS was third best on a damned good hitting team last year.Chris

not sure how you figure that Chris. Chipper .425 Tex .404 Renty .390 Escobar .385 Johnson .375 Diaz .368

per Baseballreference.com looks more like 6th to me. and I never said it wasn’t good, just that it is tied too much to his BA.

By Hammy the Brave

November 28, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for answering my many questions about the Bravos. I really enjoy the effort you put into this blog, and the inside info and insight you give to us fans. As a way of explaining my many questions, I used to call the Braves front office from time to time. I talked with Dick Balderson when he was Farm Director and he actually returned a couple of calls I left on his voicemail. I also got to talk with him at a Greenville Braves game, when they still had that club. Also I talked with Frank Wren a couple of times, until he got frustrated with me calling and intimated I shouldn’t call back. I tell you this not to brag, but to tell you how avid a Braves’ fan I am. Your blog helps to fulfill the need I have to get real Braves info year round. Hope you had a great Turkey Day, and I really look forward to you giving us the scoop on the Winter Meetings!

       Have a good one,

       Hammy the Brave

By N8

November 28, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for answering my question(s).

I was being serious. Though I really didn’t think he had enough service time, to be a free agent. But I figured he had been “up and down” enough to be out of options.

You said you don’t see where he would fit in the Braves plans? Are they not that high on him? He seems like he would be a pretty nice backup catcher /emergency utility guy. Especially if he could spell Tex at 1B, then we could unload Thorman.

Either way, it’s up to Wren, not me. LOL!

Again, thanx for the answer.

By Not DOB

November 28, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

latest from Ken Rosenthal:

“Meanwhile, the Yankees could trade Melky Cabrera even if they do not include him in a deal for Santana. Several clubs are showing interest in Cabrera, including — presumably — the Braves, who tried to acquire him last off-season. If the Yankees trade Cabrera, they will move Johnny Damon back to center.”

By chris

November 28, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

nOLIE: stats terminology is somewhat annoying and not always clear. My understanding of OPS is that it’s on base percentage + slugging percentage. OPB is on base percentage. Anyway, that’s what I meant by OPS.

Diaz’s is .865. That’s very good.

By TennesseePaul

November 28, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

I used to call the Braves front office from time to time. Also I talked with Frank Wren a couple of times, until he got frustrated with me calling and intimated I shouldn�t call back

Ummm…. that’s, well, that’s creepy.

By **Dr. Help**

November 28, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton’s Future After this season

Imagine this, Mike Hampton pitches a gem of a season. He gets back to old form by his third start and he ends up winning 19 games with a sub 3.00 ERA. What does Mike Hampton do next? If he’s a man of any character wouldn’t he give the Braves a huge discount. Or would Mike Hampton go see how much money he could suck up from the Market?

By TennesseePaul

November 28, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

stats terminology is somewhat annoying and not always clear

chris: You are right. OPS is OBP + SLG. 865 is a real solid level. But “very good”? I don’t know. I think you have to have an OPS of at least 872 to get past “solid” and into “good” range or at least the “very” could be removed and it is simply “good” or “real solid”. Once you hit the .900s you are in solid “good” range with a permanent “very” in front. 1.000 is a sure fire “great”. And with each point above 1.000 you get any arrangment of positive adjectives in front of “great”.
The nomenclature gets a bit hairy, but you’ll catch on.

By Wayne in Utah

November 28, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Dr Help Wow, 19 wins. I would take it, and worry about 2009 in November of 2008!

By DAP

November 28, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Dr. Help hampton is in a good position to win comeback player of the year, thats for sure. anything he does positive will probably be remarkable. if he wins 19 games…well he will probably be cy young and i will be shocked.

By KC

November 28, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Haven’t had much time to read over the ole’ blog lately, and I’m sure this has already been said, but…

To look on the bright side with the Hampton thing… at least it wasn’t an arm injury. Even if he deals with a nagging hamstring or something, if he has no arm trouble, he still probably makes well over 20 starts this year. And if he’s healthy and in fine form heading into October (yes, I expect the Braves to be there), he would be a huge asset.

But if Hampton doesn’t have a successful comeback season, we’ve still got 4 good young starters for 2 slots (after Smoltz, Hudson, and Glavine). No biggie.

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

N8, Pena has played some 1B, and obviously if they unloaded Thorman that could be an option. It’s worth keeping in mind, for sure. Because, barring injury to Tex, the Braves aren’t gonna need a pure 1B backup, given how little that person will play. And Pena is a switch-hitter, good guy on bench.

Just think they’ll want more pop from that particular role….

EFRIM: I, too, would like to know how in the world you think Mets can get Santana when they have such a depleted minor league system, in terms of high-level prospects ready to contribute now at the major league level. Twins need good, young, cheap talent, either prospects or young major leaguers, and not prospects who are 2-3 years away.

By Jim

November 28, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Before getting on the case of a “greedy” ballplayer, one would have to honestly ask, if I were offered a huge pay raise to go to another employer, would I go or would I stay out of loyalty to my current employer? If I had the chance, would I hire Scott Boras to be my agent and get me the best contract I could receive? If I am the best person in my occupation, do I have to have it validated by having the highest salary? If the answer to the first two questions is no, the next question would be: are you being honest with yourself?

By Calvin

November 28, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Just saw something interesting. If Johan Santana gets traded, which looks very likely to the Yanks, they will also look to trade their closer, Joe Nathan. How likely is it that the Braves will pursue him since they tried a few years ago?

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

After three listens of the new Drive-By Truckers album, my review: Big, sprawling, beautiful, emotional, powerful. Very, very good album. The boys (and girl) have done it again.

Probably not enough wall-of-guitar power to suit a few fans (Isbell’s absence felt there), but there are several of those “traditional” DBTs tunes in the 19-song, 75-or-so-minute album.

There’s a few straightforward, hard rockin’ numbers, but also a couple of ballads and a lot of mid-tempo stuff. And I was really surprised how many songs are written and sung not just by Cooley but by Shonna, who sings lead on a couple of strong ones she wrote.

The album takes chances, contains some extremely personal stories (as usual), some war-related stuff (Patterson Hood relates two backstage meetings with Green Berets and with a soldier’s family in the past year that greatly influenced the album and the liner notes he’s doing for it).

It’ll hold up well in their catalog. Isbell is missed, if not quite as much as I anticipated.

By Anders

November 28, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal is out of his mind.The only way Cabrera goes is for Santana. Johnny Damon’s days in CF are over. He can’t reach the pitchers mound from medium center. Old DH’s like Frank Thomas were first to thirding him on balls hit up the middle and scoring from second standing up. It was like a merry go-round and he was embarrased by it. Damon actually found his groove again playing left part time last year. Smaller patch of grass to cover and a shorter throw.The Yanks are going to platoon him in left with Matsui and split the DH spot between, Damon, Matsui and Giambi with Giambi playing more first than he did last year. If the Yanks trade Cabrera then I think they bring Andruw in on a one year deal or a very incentive laden deal, but Damon in CF full time -no way.

Personally I think the Yanks are trying to send a message to the Twins -nothing more.

By DAP

November 28, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

about diaz and left field…i think diaz is a great type of guy to have on a team, and i think he best at what he is doing now, platooning. im very interested to see how b. jones does this year. i hope he gives us some production in left field.

i would love to have a star like jason bay in left field and have a weapon like that. he would definetly make our team alot better, but i think the braves are gonna give b. jones a chance to prove hes that type of player.

By DAP

November 28, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

wow. just read the wagner article. he certainly was blunt, and had alot of good things to say about glavine. the mets really do have alot of work to do. im very interested to see what holes they decide they need to fill and which ones they leave open, because i dont think they will be able to fill all of them.

By Anders

November 28, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

DOB The Mets clearly don’t have the chips to compete with the Yanks or Red Sox to trade for Santana. The real question is do those two teams really want Santana? I know it sounds crazy but even they have some salary constraints. The Yanks just gave A-Rod an obscene amount of money with another $30 mil possible when he passes the top 4 all time HR guys. Jeter will be next. You think he’s gonna sit tight $7.5 mil below A-Rod? I don’t. Torre’s gone and it’s gonna be every man for himself. Jeter didn’t want to get in the way of Posada or Rivera - his play will be next year. Now can they add another guy at $25mil per? That’s $75 mil per year for 3 guys! Even at that ATM in the Bronx that’s some heavy lifting. The Sox have the same problem with Beckett. He’s arguably as good if not better than Santana with two WS titles under his belt. I’m sure he’ll want $25 mil per too. The big Papi needs to get paid and Papelbon and so on. I’m not sure these guys are as all in as they say or they’re just trying to drive the price up. Then the Twins are left to decide wether they sit on Santana and let him walk for squat or just make the best deal they can. I still think the Mets are a long shot - but not as impossible as some would like to think. The hard decision for the Mets will be when the Twins ask for Reyes - I would decline and wait them out.

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Anders, keep in mind: Collective bargaining agreement doesn’t allow incentives to be performance-based — in other words, no incentives for homers, RBIs, average, OBP, etc. Only for things like games played, plate appearances, games finished (for relievers, that’s often used), starts, etc.

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

DAP, I think you’re right on Diaz and LF. Maybe Diaz will get a chance to play every day, and maybe he could handle it and excel as he has in a platoon. But I don’t feel too confident about either of those possibilities.

Diaz himself has told me his success with Braves has been at least partly, and perhaps greatly, a result of how he’s been used by Cox.

By Thirsty Horse

November 28, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

�he ends up winning 19 games with a sub 3.00 ERA. What does Mike Hampton do next? If he�s a man of any character wouldn�t he give the Braves a huge discount.

Dr. Help, heal thyself. Come back. Put those LSD spiked sugar cubes away. Earth is a very nice place to be. By your logic and apparent sense of fair play, Hampton would give the Marlins, Rockies and Braves all an equal shot at signing him in �09? Doesn�t he �owe� them something for picking up much of his salary as well? Your logic is flawed but your fantasy of winning 19 games is interesting.

To play along, let�s also say that Andruw Jones fires Scotty boy, comes back to the Braves for a one year $8 mil contract to be like Tommy and proceeds to hit 350, drive in 200 runs, breaks Barroids HR record (*), donates all of his cars to charity, retires in Newfoundland to write his memoirs before going flying back to Curacao in a large pink Zepplin to become King and ruler of that nation.

Could happen right?

By DAP

November 28, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Anders i cant really think of any mets players that the twins would want that the mets can afford to lose. the twins will probably have to get either reyes, wright, or maine in a deal to pull the trigger. the mets wouldnt and shouldnt trade any of these guys. because, if you trade maine, you arent gaining that much and if you trade wright or reyes, who do you replace them with? the mets are screwed as far as getting players in trades. i believe they will have to get all their peices through free agency. and thats slim pickin’s.

By DAP

November 28, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

you are the funniest horse ive ever blogged with.

By La Universidad De Los Bravos

November 28, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

The AD became the university president.

Despite declining results, the head coach keeps his job because he won a national championship 13 years ago and has 14 division titles and 5 conference titles under his belt.

The NCAA lifted the probation and the scholarship restriction. Many more scholarships were available the fans and alumni were told. Instead of new recruits they just granted full scholarships to a few star players and are pondering whether to grant full scholarships to a few others. That this does not address any of the fatal flaws that prevented them from a bowl berth last season without the addition of impact recruits is apparently not any big concern.

They let their star safety transfer out because they would not give him a full scholarship. A walkon will be plugged in until the four star safety who is still in high school arrives on campus.

They let their star cornerback transfer out and are letting the nickelback take his spot. There is no adequate replacement for the nickelback. Fans should be worried because the head coach historically prefers to put legacy boys in positions like nickleback instead of just letting them dress and cheer and clap on the sideline.

They stopped recruiting several highly rated recruits to recruit a five star junior college transfer tight end from Texas who will graduate after next season when those recruits might have been ready to grace the campus with their presence.

Still waiting to hear whether the medical hardship redshirt will be granted to give a certain someone a sixth year of eligibility.

The big grab in recruiting was a junior college transfer who is a possession receiver. The incumbent possession receiver might lose his spot on the depth chart. The rest of the receiving corps will be filled with three star recruits and walkons.

Until the backup QB straightens quite a few things out, there is no adequate backup QB for the stud QB who will surely miss 20-25% of the games next season.

The junior college transfer kicker Octavio and the punter Mahay from last season have decided to go pro instead of trying to graduate on a half scholarship.

The alumni no longer complain about not competing financially with the schools from the BCS conferences. They merely accept it. Apathy is disguised as optimism and realism is labeled pessimism.

Welcome to the life of a mid-major college football program. Or are the Braves slowly becoming Georgia Tech instead of Georgia? Nah, even Georgia Tech fans are more demanding.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

DOB/Lew

If the Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers refuse to part with their prized prospects(Hughes,Chamberlain,Bucholz,Lester,Kemp,Kershaw), and the Mets decide that they need Santana/Bedard/Haren, then a package of John Maine,Lastings Milledge, Mike Pelfrey and Fernando Martinez would be very enticing for the Twins. They most definetly would not have to trade that much talent to the A’s though. Not Maine. But Milledge, Martinez, Pelfrey/Mulvey is a pretty good deal for the A’s.

The Yanks and Red Sox have said repeatedly that they don’t want to give up their young pitchers. Mets have never said anything about John Maine not being added into a deal.

By Navigator

November 28, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Scott Boras said that ARod was worth much more than the Yankees were willing to give. We know now that ARod went back to Yankees for less than the original offer. Boras thinks AJones is worth $20M a year, but let’s see if anyone will bite. Fact is Boras may not get as many clients in the future the way he’s botched some of the recent negotiations. This couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, especially, when he can’t figure out that the market value of all baseball players are slowly shrinking. The real world is starting to catch up with sports.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

And DOB….

the Twins need a Major league ready CF to replace Hunter, which they receive in Lastings Milledge, and a major league ready starter, like John Maine. Then they could always use a Fernando Martinez to put in the minors and wait until he is ready in 2009.

Now, I am not saying the Mets will deal Maine, but don’t act like they have nothing to deal. If they wanted to get Santana, I think they could get him…..

It would just cost them way more than any sane GM was willing to give up.

By nOLIE

November 28, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

nOLIE: stats terminology is somewhat annoying and not always clear. My understanding of OPS is that it�s on base percentage + slugging percentage. OPB is on base percentage. Anyway, that�s what I meant by OPS.

Diaz�s is .865. That�s very goodChris

Sorry Chris I misread your post and thought it was OBP. You are entirely correct about OPS and where Diaz ranked.

By N.B.O.T.R

November 28, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

BREAKING: Braves sign Andruw Jones to 1 year, 15.25 million deal!

By DAP

November 28, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

Efrim i think youre right. the mets could get santana, but at what cost? they would lose thier number #1 pitcher for another #1 who is soon to be a free agent, and they will lose thier right fielder. they will have a better #1 pitcher, but they still wont have any depth. they could get santana, but it would be stupid.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

no they didnt

By wjones

November 28, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

As to figuring out what a good OPS is, my rule of thumb is to divide it by 3; then it looks like a batting average and is easier to see. For instance, a .600 OPS would be like a .200 BA, .700 OPS would be .233, .800 would be .267, .900 would be .300 (that would be good), and 1.000 would be .333. Anything above that and you have a great season on your hands.

By Renegator

November 28, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

wjones:

I like that divide by 3 idea. It really puts it into perspective. I’ve always had a hard time qualifying OPS and SLG numbers. They just don’t mean anything to me (other than obviously the higher the number the better)

By Hammy the Brave

November 28, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

BOO!!

Sorry if I scared you with my frightening story of “Braves stalking”. Don’t worry though, I won’t jump off the page of this blog and stalk you, since you’re not employed by the Braves!

I’m afraid you missed two very important points from that account. First of all, it’s proof of my fanaticism toward all things Braves. I try to go to “the horses mouth” for info on the Braves, I don’t just accept whatever sportstalk drivel is out there. You should try to call yourself, the Braves office phone is publically listed. At present, it’s not even a misdemeanor in the state of Georgia to call them and ask questions about the Braves.

Secondly, you missed how I got two entirely different responses from different employees of the Braves. Dick Balderson was great to talk to about the farm system, but Frank Wren didn’t seem to think he should have to talk to the general public about the Braves.

Lastly, let me give you some perspective on fanaticism toward the Braves. Don’t you think your friends, relatives and coworkers, especially non-sports fans, might consider you, me and all fans blogging on this site to be a little “weird or strange”? I don’t believe anyone blogging here can judge another Braves fan for being too fanatical, or else they’re being hypocritical.

Nothing against you TennesseePaul, but I believe no Braves fan is “worth their salt” unless they are very knowledgable about their team. That includes reading publications like Baseball America, Choptalk, SportsWeekly, and even having the “courage” to call in to sportstalk shows and to the Braves front office itself, to talk about the Braves.

    We're all fanatics(fans) of the Braves,


  Hammy the Brave

By Anders

November 28, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

DOB Fair enough on the incentives issue. I was thinking along the lines of Avg. RBI etc which can’t be used. My mistake. I could still see a one year deal with mutual option type of thing.

As for those mentioning including Maine in the Santana deal I would definetly consider that before Reyes. I think a pitcher of Maine’s ilk can be had this year (Blanton) or next but the Santana’s are far and few between.

I’d really hate to give Reyes up. He’s the most overall exciting players the Mets have ever had and he’s not 25 yet. I just don’t see shipping that out for a once every 5 day player. I’d rather have Haren with Reyes than Santana without Reyes.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Go read the Wagner article. The Mets can’t afford to give up any of the players you mentioned and still have a chance. GO READ WAGNER-Their own closer agrees with every single thing I’ve said and analyzed about the Mets this entire off season. Go read it.

Anders-Now let me get this straight-You’re saying that the Red Sox and Yankees may not try to get Santana because they lack money? Have you had one too many three martini luches with those important clients?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 28, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Elaborate on what you mean by “traditional” DBT songs. Personally I dig the stuff like Bulldozers and Dirt, Sandwiches For the Road, and Sounds Better In a Song as much as I do the big guitar sounds like Ronnie and Neil, and Where the Devil Won’t Stay. I think John Neff has done a beautiful job with the pedal steel on past albums, so I’m glad to see him step in as a full-time band member for this album. Besides, with Isbell gone, now we have two albums to rave over instead of one (because I still haven’t taken Sirens of the Ditch out of the changer…Got Hurricanes and Handgrenades going as we speak.)

“I’m a day away, and I’ve got a show to play in Birmingham tonight.”

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 28, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

I shouldn’t even bring up these names, but I am shocked No Chop Zone or Mets Rule has not been on here swearing up and down that the Mets will get Santana and that their weak probable offer is better than that of the Yanks, Red Sox, Dodgers, or Angels. Is it possible they have gained some common sense? Naw! I didn’t think so either.

By Edgar

November 28, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

DOB

Hey, how about Jose Valentin for backup at Shortstop??? or how’bout Royce Clayton???

By kdbanks

November 28, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Diaz playing every day, is my memory not correct in thinking that he played most every day down the stretch - like the last 20 games or so? And didn’t he do a good job against both lefties and righties?

If I’m not insane, that would indicate at least the possibility of him being used almost every day exists.

By TNRON

November 28, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Hello Robert(JIB).I was thinking exactly the same thing.Seems like we havent heard much lately out of the Drooler since PayRod re-uped with the Yanks.I personally dont think the Mets have a chance to get Santana.Both the Yankees and BoSox can offer more and it will become a P*g contest between them.The Steinbrenners will not want Boston to get one up on them and I think will ultimately pony up.The Mets will probably overpay for Blanton and then Mets Dont Rule and Still Drool will proclaim he was the one they wanted all along and why he is in fact better than Santana.I still thing Wren will do something unexpected next week in Nashville.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 28, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Hell no to Royce Clayton!

By StingerSplash

November 28, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

DOB,

My apologies if this inquiry is repetitive, but I checked in to the blog late and stumbled upon your review of the new DBT cd? Does that mean it is out? What’s the title so I can find it easy when I go to Not-so-great-after-all Buy?

By Anders

November 28, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Lew The Red Sox have Beckett signed through 2010 (team option on 2010) for 9.5 through 12 mil per. You think he won’t squawk at Santana showing up at $25 mil per ? Come on - that’s naive. They’ll have to re-work his deal.You think they’re gonna pay two starters a total of $45 mil per season? They’ll have to add 10 stories to the monster for additional seats to pay them. The Yanks certainly have the money - I just don’t know if even they can or want to keep piling it on. As I said earlier, even they have to have a limit. I’m not saying they definetly won’t do it, I still view them as the favorites, but I’m saying it’s not the slam dunk it would have been had A-Rod left.

Am I correct in understanding that you are now a believer in anything Wagner has to say? That will come in handy during the season. Or are you just cherry picking again?

Lastly I’ve chosen to ignore the client comment lest you accuse me of preening my choice of occupation again.

By Lee in S. GA

November 28, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Wren will make a surprise move at the winter meetings. My curiosity lies more with “WHOM” is traded more than who we obtain. IMO there are only about 10 (give or take a couple) untouchable Braves players w/o further digging into the farm system. I am prepared for a shock or 2 by the time the winter meetings are over.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Lew

I could care less what Wagner says man. Care less. Thats his opinion, or a writer’s, whatever. In my mind, the Twins would be idiots not to accept a package of Milledge/Maine/Martinez/Pelfrey for Santana. Idiots. Now if they get a better package from the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers then that is a different story, but the Mets can make this trade and still be a threat in the NL East/NL next year. They could put Gomez in RF. They already have an additional pick in next years draft because of the Glavine signing, so with three picks between 18-35, they could at least soften the blow in the farm system if they play it right. Anyways….this next thing debunks all of it because the Twins are filling their outfield voids.

This just in from Rotoworld.com

The Twins are close to landing Delmon Young from the Twins in a six-player deal that would send Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett and Juan Rincon to Tampa Bay. The Twins would also pick up Brendan Harris and Jason Pridie, the Star Tribune’s La Velle E. Neal III reports.

Young would likely play right field in Minnesota, with Michael Cuddyer moving to left. Nick Punto could replace Bartlett, leaving Harris to take over at second until Alexi Casilla is ready. The Rays would be opening up room in the outfield for Rocco Baldelli or Elijah Dukes. Jonny Gomes’ chances of sticking around would also seem to increase.

Pirdie is the CF of the future for the Twins now, so they would basically just need lots of younger pitching in return for Santana which the Mets do not have. This trade made acquiring Santana even more difficult for all teams because they will now want even more pitching.

By Dale Murphy

November 28, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton? Who is that? I have already blotted him out of my memory.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 28, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

One thing I have noticed about the Yankees since the Stankbrenner boys took over is how Brian Cashman has been pushed aside. With the whole Arod negotiations it wasn’t Cashman who headed the talks but Hank Steinbrenner. And now with Santana it was Hank Steinbrenner that reached out to the Twins. I find that interesting. Cashman doesn’t want to trade any of their top young players (Cano, Cabrerra, Hughes, Chamberlin, and Kennedy) but ‘ol Hank seems to be his daddy’s boy and is willing to trade all of them if it nets him the likes of Santana. Interesting isn’t it? I give Cashman another year. Two at tops!

By Renegator

November 28, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

DOB or anyone else:

As a huge fan of Southern Rock - what other bands should I be looking at beside DBT? Their music is a great throwback. Is there anyone else I should consider?

By Luke

November 28, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

DOB, I just had a quick question. I know Wren has said they are done with starting pitching, but in your opinion if Haren becomes available do you think that he would go after him with some of the pitching depth that we have acquired? It seems it would be smart considering Haren’s friendly contract for the next 3 years and the fact that he is an ace. Thanks! Im new on this and I really enjoy the blog!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 28, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Efrim, if that’s true, that tells me the Red Sox are in the lead for Santana. I think the Twins would be more likely to accpet Crisp instead of Ellsbury as part of a deal if they already have the likes of Young in their outfield.

By Thirsty Horse

November 28, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

not to be snarky, but useless conjecture is pretty much the reason behind this whole blog thing, LOL. If it weren�t for that, we�d have slim pickings for posts, no?

Doesn�t matter what you say as long as those fingers are pounding away, right? It�s just a useless blog. We’ll pay close attention to your future meaningless opines. Sorry, but you were snarky.

I try to go to �the horses mouth� for info on the Braves, I don�t just accept whatever sportstalk drivel is out there. You should try to call yourself, the Braves office phone is publically listed.

Well here�s your horse Hammy. Hey, maybe we could call and ask if they have Prince Albert in a can too. Paul was right. Creepy.

Hammy, meet ncscoots - ncscoots, meet Hammy. Help each other out. LOL.

By Anders

November 28, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Robert Good read on “Boy George”. He started off slow but has slowly taken a liking to the publicity. Let’s see how he handles it when the going gets rough. It’s easy to stand out front handing out candy to everyone. Cashman may look to bolt by next year if he gets stomped on and they give up all the young guys he fought to draft and hold. Boy George even likened Joe Girardi to a modern day Billy Martin. Wow - that would scare the crap out of me if I was a Yankee fan. If this guy starts showing up on the road trips look for the good old crazy days to return to the Bronx - Here’s hoping it does!

By Jim

November 28, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

If you are Billy Beane and are considering trading Haren/Blanton/Harden, wouldn’t you need to get pitching back. The A’s have been a pitching oriented team and will need to replace anybody they trade. If the A’s were to trade Haren to the Mets, wouldn’t they want to get Maine back? Pelfry or Humber aren’t enough, and Millidge plus a prospect or Pelfry/Humber does not adequately satisfy an immediate need. If the Red Sox and Yankees are both genuinely interested in Santana, might not the loser be inclined to go after Haren?

By DAP

November 28, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

individual predictions for 2008

McCann .290avg 20HR 95rbi

Tex .305avg 35HR 125rbi

Johnson .280avg 20HR 70rbi

Escobar .290 8HR 45 rbi (batting leadoff)

C. Jones .320avg 25HR 100rbi

Frenchy .290avg 25HR 110rbi

Diaz .330avg 10HR 40rbi (in limited play)

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Luke, I don’t know, but I think they’d have to consider it if it didn’t purge the minor league system of any of the top prospects (Schafer particularly) they’re counting on to fill spots for a long time….

Renegator, get some Kings of Leon and My Morning Jacket. Not as Skynyrd-sounding as some of DBTs stuff, but both are great southern bands, and you can really hear their heritage coming through.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 28, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

StingerSplash,

I’ll butt in. The DBT album, “Brighter than Creation’s Dark,” doesn’t come out until January 22 for us mortals. DOB got an advanced copy because he’s special. Yes, damn it, I’m jealous and bitter.

The post you’re looking for is November 27, 2007—6:59 p.m.

By DAP

November 28, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

if my above predictions come true (and some of them might be a little generous) then the braves CF, b. jones(in left), and the back-ups and pinch hitters will have to hit about 30HRs and get about 200rbis to equal last years production.

can they do it? probably not. the pitching better be good to make up for losing edgar and andruw.

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, that “traditional” was just be being lazy, I should’ve said their rave-up, rawkin’ stuff. But yes, I’m with you on a lot of their very best stuff in the past not fitting that mold.

Just be ready for a bit of a different overall album, at least that’s how it comes across to me. Not as high a percentage of straight-ahead rock, but plenty of it — like I said, it’s a 19-song album.

It’s great stuff, really is.

StingerSplash, no it’s not out. i mentioned last night it’s coming out Jan 22. My buddy at the CD store had an advance copy I’m listening to.

The DBTs are supposedly playing the entire album in Athens the night it comes out, I think at 40-Watt Club.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Anders-Me naive? Get real. You’re the one oozing naivite, if you think financial concerns cause either of those teams to lose sleep. I live in the middle of the Red Sox Nation and you wouldn’t believe the marketing and merchandising that goes on. It alone could cover their annual payroll-believe me on this.

It doesn’t matter one little bit whether or not Beckett likes it. If the Red Sox put together the deal to pull off acquiring Santana, the Sox can afford to pay him his $20 mill + and still give Beckett a raise if they choose to do so. They HAVE THE $$$$$$$$$$. Yankees do too. The Mets may have $$$$ (which they have yet to prove since they got Beltran), but which two of the three teams have players acceptable to the Twins that they can afford to give up?

Efrim-You could care less what Wagner says? You mean that the opinions of the Mets’ closer, who may very well help to determine the mindset of the club for the coming season, don’t make any difference? You may well be right that an offer of Maine, Pelfrey, Martinez and Milledge for Santana will make the Twins leap for joy and experience multiple orgasms. However…….What exactly, does this leave the Mets with? I’ll tell you. It leaves them short a right fielder. It leaves them with a rotation of Santana, El Duque (the guaranteed to be injured one), Oliver Perez and ??????????????? You’re the one that needs a reality check here, If Omar makes any move vaguely resembling this (or one including Heilman, who along with Wagner is their entire bullpen), then he should be summarily fired and will be lucky if they let him keep his life. As far as minor leaguers, they have one starter, Kevin Mulvey and one reliever, Carlos Muniz, who are even vaguely MLB ready-maybe.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Robert

I don’t think outfield is a concern for them now. I think they are going to ask for 2 pitchers in return. Not sure what team would be willing to deal 2 major league ready pitchers for Santana. I can’t imagine the Red Sox giving up Lester and Bucholz for Santana.

By Anders

November 28, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

DAP You left one off:

Braves -Third place - Again!!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 28, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Renegator,

I strongly recommend Shooter Jennings. I haven’t heard the newest album, yet, but Put the O Back in Country and Electric Rodeo are both outstanding. Some of it is more country-ish, some of it harder. Good mixture of both.

Also, you might like Lucero, if you can handle the raspy, gravel-voiced lead singer, Ben Nichols. Try these songs and see if you like them:

“My Best Girl,”

“Drink Til We’re Gone,”

“Kiss The Bottle,”

“Get’s Worse at Night.”

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 28, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Anders, I’m with you, brother. I see the beginnings of a Steinbrenner/Martin II fiasco. How do you think Girardi will react if ‘ol Hanky boy starts telling him who to play and when. From what I have seen of him so far I could see that happening. He is his father’s child. If I’m not mistaken wasn’t Girardi’s issue in Florida the interferrence of upper management and ownership. ‘08 could be one helluva summer!

By TennesseePaul

November 28, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Creepy nonetheless

By Lew

November 28, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Anders-The Braves in third? More likely the Mets. If they come in that high in the division. They’d better watch out for the Nats, too.

By Thirsty Horse

November 28, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren didn�t seem to think he should have to talk to the general public about the Braves

How totally rude and insensitive of Frank! What nerve. Did you let him know that, as a public figure, he should field every single call from we members of the general public? Unbelievable. Excuse me. I have to go call Bobby Cox, Gov. Perdue, President Bush, Hillary, Madonna and Bruce Willis. I have so many questions.

�let me give you some perspective on fanaticism toward the Braves. Don�t you think your friends, relatives and coworkers, especially non-sports fans, might consider you, me and all fans blogging on this site to be a little �weird or strange�?

Bloggers considered strange? I suppose some are strange, not all. You are.

By Steve McP

November 28, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Just read the article on the Braves MLB site, which is an interview with wren in advance of the winter meetings. He sounds worryingly complacent! He seems to be saying, it would be nice to have a CF and some support at SS and a left handed reliever, but only the latter is really important. He might of course just be saying this so as not to look too needy in discussions, but he certainly did not project the image of actively pursuing anybody.

There has also been little talk of Thorman, the Braves did not want to send him down last season for fear that he would not clear waivers, yet everyone here seems to think he is in the same class as Woodward and co - are we missing something that the Braves see in him? Could he be converted to think that sometimes hitting for average is better than aiming for the long ball every time and ending up with a huge strikeout count and perhaps be taught to move a bit when fielding at first?

By Thirsty Horse

November 28, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Want creepy? How about a Muts fan that’s obsessed with a Braves blog. Just like that Mentalfrolikin’ Boy last night, whoscurried off with a hoof imprint on his backside. Now it’s Anders the masochist and Metro Mental Boy. That’s a creepy pair.

By Anders

November 28, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Lew I guess you really need to dig deep down and try and understand how your beloved Braves finished behind this rag tag talent deprived bungling band of under achieving toxic filled roster of Mets players two years in a row. Your pure hatred of all things Mets just oozes from your posts and you can’t stay lucid for two posts in a row concerning them. Anytime anyone (not just me) posts something regarding the Mets possibly making a good move you rhetorically stamp your feet and scream at the top of your lungs how it can’t and won’t happen. Every time. If the Red Sox have all this money that they’re willing to throw away, why all this consternation over Lowell? Why not just give him a 5th year and raise the price of hats?I’ve never said the Yanks or the Red Sox would not make the deal - I just pointed out why they might have reservations about it. What we can agree on is that no matter how many superstuds the Braves have in Richmond they don’t have the $’s to sign Santana - Perhaps this is where all your anger stems from?

By Anders

November 28, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Lew The third place was meant as a joke. It’s ok to laugh once in a while. Even at yourself or me if you like, I can take it.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

Lew

Pedro Martinez looked pretty good last year man. I know you hate the Mets but ease up. Carlos Gomez would fill the RF void. Their rotation would be:

LHP Santana

RHP Martinez

LHP Perez

RHP Hernandez

RHP Humber or another free agent starter

Positions

LF Alou

CF Beltran

RF Gomez

1B Delgado

2B Castillo

SS Reyes

3B Wright

C Castro

Is that a better team than the Braves, probably not, but they sure as hell will be able to afford Santana’s contract after 2008 with Martinez(15 m), Delgado(16 m), and Alou(7 m) coming off the books. That is 38 million dollars. Paying Santana won’t be a problem, and I already told you that the Mets have 3 picks in the 18-35 range. Not to say that they will get Top Prospects with those picks, but we got our #2 top prospect with the 14th selection.

By Anders

November 28, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Robert How would you like to be the D’Rays? You make this monster move (in their world) and you still know you don’t have a shot at finishing much above .500 in that division. They should really move that team to the central to give them a fighting chance.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Lew

Again, would I do it? Probably not, but you are getting the best pitcher on the planet. They will be able to sign the guy if they acquire him. They obviously would also have to sign another free agent, Carlos Silva?, to a deal just in case Martinez or El Duque had to hit the DL. Which El Duque probably would. Just don’t look at it from a Braves fan perspective.

Also, more importantly, they would not have to give up Maine for Dan Haren. Not at all. Milledge/Martinez/Mulvey/Pelfrey for Haren.

By Greg O.

November 28, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Scrap any thoughts of the Mets getting Santana. As if the prospects they were offering were good enough, they were all outfielders. With the Delmon Young-Matt Garza deal about to be completed, the Twins not only get Garza, but also center field prospect Jason Pridie. No sense bringing in more outfielders. It’s gonna take bigtime pitching prospects to get Santana, and huge pockets to pay him immediately. That leaves the Yanks, Red Sox, and Angels as, more than likely, the only places he could go.

By MGL

November 28, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Did anyone solve the mystery of the 41 man 40 man roster?

By GermanBravesFan

November 28, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

Anders, I agree: it’s okay to laugh every once in a while. Most of us were after the Mets finished second this year… sorry, I couldn’t resist…

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Greg O

Agreed, the Mets just lost their chance for Santana. But it is strange to me.

The Twins aren’t going to be able to get 2 starting pitchers from a team. They just aren’t. I guess Hughes and Horne from the Yankees. But Alan Horne ain’t great.

By Anders

November 28, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan No Problem. Was that the Braves fans I heard laughing behind us? I though it sounded familiar from the year before. Couldn’t resist either.

By GermanBravesFan

November 28, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

;-) it’s all in good fun!

By GermanBravesFan

November 28, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Anders: after 14 years, it was time to laugh about something new, e.g. the Braves finishing behind the Mets. The other joke, the Mets finishing behind the Braves, got old… ;-)

By Anders

November 28, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Perhaps there’s a three way deal coming where the Twins get Haren and Blanton and prospect[s], the A’s get outfielders and pitching prospects and the third team gets Santana? Don’t have it all mapped out but I think you get my drift.

By GermanBravesFan

November 28, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

All the trade scenarios here sound really exciting, but one thing is for sure: the Braves, more than likely, will not be involved in any big deals…

By Greg O.

November 28, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Efrim, you’re right. It may be tough to get two big arms. But I think they could get the Yanks to do Hughes and Cano. Makes sense. The Twins just traded their shortstop, Jason Bartlett. Alexi Casilla, who could play second, now moves to short. Who plays second base? Nick Punto? A small offensive hole with a defensive second baseman is something the Yanks can absorb if they can get Santana.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

Hughes and Cano makes a ton of sense for the Twins. But I really can’t see the Yanks doing it.

By flange1

November 28, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Dude do you read any posts all the way through? Lew has told you the SAME thing for the last 6 months and all you do is say he changes his tune.

He hasn’t changed his tune.

you need to read ALL of his posts and at least think a minute before responding.

By the way, all things Mets do smell like Moises hands….

By Anders

November 28, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

8Efrim* I agree. The Yanks really like Cano. He’s got some real natural offensive ability that’s hardly been tapped. A little lazy in his approach (especially on defense)but if they can fix that he’ll be the real deal.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 28, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Anders, you are right about the Devil Rays. Seriously, if they were in the National League they would be playoff contenders. If this deal comes fruition I like it, but I would have sure tried to get rid of Crawford instead of Young. This is why. Crawford is heading for free agency soon and we all know he won’t be signed by the Rays. The longer they hold onto him the higher the risk he gets hurt or has a bad year and devalues his stock. Young would still be under their control for five years. I suppose the Twins didn’t want Young for the same reason. Maybe. Its still a great deal. The Twins get a RF capable of 30+Hr 110+RBI and MVP ability while the Rays would get a solid #2 or #3 pitcher.

Don’t be shocked if Crawford isn’t still dealt this winter. The Rays have Gomes and Dukes not to mention BJ Upton can always go back to CF. For instance, if the the Rays could bet a Sean Marshall, Matt Murton, and Eric Patterson in a deal that would be a great move for both teams. Murton is a great player and Marshall has the potential to be a great pitcher. Patterson is likley ready to play 2B in the big leauges. That would allow Upton to move to CF.

By just sayins all

November 28, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

As a jjs fan, (long time watch, first time post), I knew he couldn’t stop blogging and finally located him.

It looks like he, Bob, J and friends have given up the fight and are posting among themselves over on the Chop Chick’s Blog … that Blog certainly scrolls quickly cause nobody posts there.

Bob is as pompous, political and hard to understand as ever but, some good stuff from jjs and others.

I saw that Jerseygil, Stephen, BossLady and DOB are mentioned too.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

Efrim and Anders-Did either of y’all bother to read what Wagner, The Mets’ Closer, said? He says exactly what I have said all along. The Mets are full of holes. He laments the loss of Glavine and doubts that they can replace either his 13 wins or his influence on the pitching staff-especially to Maine and Perez. He does not credit Peterson, he credits Glavine’s work with them. He states explicitly that El Duque only is capable of going about half the time. He also says that to trade Milledge, Pelfrey or Heilman (particularly Heilman) will basically cripple the Mets, as they have NO ONE to replace them with. He is also not sold on Estrada replacing LoDuca and feels that all the Mets did in resigning Alou and Castillo was treading water, at best.

Dudes-This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my feelings about the Mets-nothing whatsoever. I’ve looked in a completely objective manner at the team they have and the needs they have. I’ve done the same analysis for the Braves and would be more than happy to do the same analysis for the Phillies or other East teams. Even DOB agreed wholeheartedly with my analysis and said as much. Now Billy Wagner comes out and says the exact same thing. I guess he hates the Mets, too? Anders-y’all better hope he doesn’t. Tell me exactly where I’m wrong.

By Greg O.

November 28, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

Let’s just realize the position of power that the Twins are in. They’re going to get a king’s ransom for Santana and Hughes and Cano aren’t too much to ask for arguably the best pitcher in baseball, a left-hander no less.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

Lew

You said the Mets don’t have a RF to replace Milledge.

You’re wrong. Carlos Gomez can replace him.

As far as what Wagner says, that is fine by me. I agree with him to some extent. Although, when did I ever say the Mets should include Heilman in the Santana deal. I didn’t. Why should the Mets be foolish to trade Pelfrey, he went what? 1-8 for them? Like I said, Maine, Miiledge, Martinez and Pelfrey/Mulvey for Santana. Before the Delmon Young deal, it was a great trade for the Twins and still got what the Mets have wanted all offseason, a front of the rotation starter to pair with Pedro Martinez. You never even mentioned Pedro in your list of Mets starters.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 28, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

just sayins all And some like myself claim duel citizenship. I also blog on a political blog so I hope that is okay with you? And get your “Gils” straight.

Now baseball…… I am getting a little perturbed with the double speak coming from the Braves. First they say they are not concerned about the high number on their coming payroll but then claim they need to find a left handed reliever, one of which happens to have service with the Braves by the name of Mahay. Like it or not, the price of decent lefty relievers is going up.

I for one sure don’t want to hear the Braves whine about not finding the players they need when they are available. Sometimes you have to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

One more thing on the Mets acquiring Santana. He has averaged about 16 wins over his past five seasons-an excellent pitcher, no dispute whatsoever. He has, in that time, won 16 once, more than 16 twice and less than 16 twice-in no particular order-he has not improved each year and went 15-13 this year, though with an excellent ERA and WHIP.

Now figuring that he would have an average season in a foreign country (yes, NY would be foreign to him after Minnesota) with the Mets, that means they’ve replaced Glavine’s 13 wins with Santana’s 16, but gave up (at the very least) one of their other pitchers, who would also need replacing. If they give up MIlledge, they would have to replace their right fielder. If they trade Heilman, they would have to replace their ONLY effective middle reliever. Y’all do the math. It sure doesn’t add up for the Mets. Santana would gain them little more, at this point, than ARod would have. They still have holes that need filling and an extremely old left fielder, a pitcher in Pedro coming back from surgery with chronic foot problems, a 2B with leg issues and a catcher that doesn’t handle pitchers as well and strikes out an awful lot. I think Omar has way too much to fill this offseason to be that effective in doing it. The team is old and infirm-they have missed much time. This year will be no different. All that money and nowhere to spend it. Ain’t life a b!tch?

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

Renegator, Hillbilly’s right on about Shooter Jennings. And the new one, “The Wolf,” is outstanding.

But you should also try some Hank Williams III. I’d get the Straight To Hell CD he put out about a year-and-a-half ago.

By JerseyGil

November 28, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this

Hey Gil
Yesterday was a posting asking about Erik Cordier..i know he was out in 2006 recup “Tommy John” surgery, but i don’t see him in any minor league roster…Because you are ours expert in the minor, did you think he will start in AA? And tell this guys that is two different Gil in this Blog…one from Jersey and you…

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

JerseyGil, since he missed all season recovering from TJ, he’s probably just not been assigned a team yet. He’s not on the 40-man, so he didn’t have to be activated from a DL like others on the 40-m,an roster had to be (Gonzalez, Hampton, etc.)

I’d imagine he’ll start out at A-ball just to shake off the rust, etc, and get a quick promotion if he’s healthy. But that’s just me guessing. Haven’t talked to Braves officials about him yet this winter.

I do know they are very high on him when they got him. He put up good numbers in his limited minor league appearances so far. Got great stuff, from all accounts.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Yes, Carlos Gomez COULD play right field. I never meant to imply that there would be no warm body there. You do realize that Gomez hit .232 with an OBP of .288 in 58 games don’t you? Wow. I’m overwhelmed.

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Greg O., right you are about Twins getting a king’s ransom for Santana. They hold all the cards, since they obviously don’t have to trade him (and it’s a tough call on whether they should, since they’re good enough to compete, and losing him puts a huge gash in their rotation).

If you’re a team looking for an ace, rather than give up three three young players/prospects it’ll take, plus the $125 mill or so over five years it’ll also take to sign him, wouldn’t you rather go hard after Haren of the A’s, who’s quite affordable for three more years. He’s very close to Santana, in terms of recent numbers he’s put up.

By robdawg06

November 28, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Germanbraves, I was quoting the guy that had all the busts (M.Hampton,W.Alvarez,etc.) broken down. He said the Rockies will be responsible for his $9 million 2009 salary if no other teams signs him.

By Bryan

November 28, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

(band of horses) I haven’t heard their old cd - gonna pick it up - their whole wall of guitar sound, mixed with the lyrics are great:

I am on a bender, its 80 degrees, the end of december what’s going on!

Look, its stupid, simple, and describes some of my favorite memories of getting wasted in the south over x-mas break… very REM

By JerseyGil

November 28, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

DOB Thanks, i been going crazy looking all over…this kid is only 22 yr…He got a future..this kid will be ours “Secret Weapon”” fot the future…keep the secret..

By HellBilly ERIC

November 28, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

DOB: These Millions we keep hearing bout that the braves have, how do YOU see them being put to use over the winter meetings? I think crisp would be a great fincal & productive fit for the braves. also put willie harris as utilty OF, lilbridge as the utilty IF and save some money! lets secure 1 more good bullpen arm or even use one of the 8 starters in that role, and lets use these “millions” to secure TEX for the long haul i say pu the Franchise tag on him even othe r than cf there is no glaring holes in the line up! Bottom Line secure TEX and Make a Go at crisp. Dave what do you think bouth thoses sugestions? DEC 18 Hank III new album!!! dob: did you ever check out any Scott h Biram? if not do yor self a favor and go out and get it.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

Lew

Efrim-Yes, Carlos Gomez COULD play right field. I never meant to imply that there would be no warm body there. You do realize that Gomez hit .232 with an OBP of .288 in 58 games don�t you? Wow. I�m overwhelmed.

There is some of that Mets hatred. I suppose you think Josh Anderson will be better in CF for the Braves than Gomez would be in RF for the Mets because of a small sample size this past season. Come on Lew. You hate the Mets with every bone in your body. That last comment was not fair. A lot of people think Gomez is going to be a productive major league outfielder. He sure has the tools to do so. Not quite fair to bring up those stats. Wasn’t he playing with a broken Hamate bone? The Mets aren’t getting Santana any longer anyways because of this Young for Garza deal. We may as well drop it.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

DOB

If you�re a team looking for an ace, rather than give up three three young players/prospects it�ll take, plus the $125 mill or so over five years it�ll also take to sign him, wouldn�t you rather go hard after Haren of the A�s, who�s quite affordable for three more years. He�s very close to Santana, in terms of recent numbers he�s put up.

Billy Beane knows this and will probably ask for a similar package to what the Twins will get for Johan. I agree though, Haren is the better buy because of the money. But with the millions of monopoly type dollars the Yanks and Red Sox have, the money doesn’t matter.

By robdawg06

November 28, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

The Braves are really close to having a top team. I think if they add a 14 to 18 game 3rd starter (maybe Haren or Blanton or etc.) and a CF like Aaron Rowand they will roll !

This lineup would rule !

Escobar - SS K. Johnson - 2B Chipper - 3B Tex - 1B Diaz - LF Francoeur - RF McCann - C Rowand - CF

Rotation : Hudson,Smoltz,Haren,Glavine,C.James

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

HellBillyEric, the payroll’s already up a few million, believe it or not — just from the big raises to Smoltz, Hudson, McCann, and a couple arbitration guys, plus the $13 mill or so for Tex and $8 mill for Glavine.

But yes, I think they definitely need to spend what it takes to secure a lefty, either Mahay unless it gets outrageous, or trade for one (might be more likely).

And I’ve said before, I think Crisp is relatively affordable for his productivity. Not great, but not bad for the price. I’d rather have DeJesus, because he’s so tradeable if you want to deal him a year from now. Of course, so might Crisp be, long as he stays healthy. Salaries sure aren’t going down between now and next winter, so he’s a relative bargain if he has a good year.

If Braves acquire a proven lefty and get Crisp or another, slightly cheaper CF, payroll would be well over $90 mill. Don’t know if that’s as high as they’ll go, or even if they’ll go that high.

But at this time next week, I think we’ll have a lot better idea.

By LOST BRAVE

November 28, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

D.O.B.HATE TO BRAG BUT I’VE BEEN TELLING YOU GUYS,THAT HAMPTON WAS DONE.HE GOT HIS MONEY FIGURED OUT IT WAS EASY TO BE INJURED AND NOT HAVE TO WORK TO EARN IT.WITH THE MONEY THE BRAVES HAVE GIVEN HIM THE PAST THREE YEARS, GUESS WHAT THEY COULD HAVE USED TO RESIGN A CENTER-FIELDER NAMED ANDREW JONES.WHICH NOT ONLY YOU BUT MOST OF THE FANS THINK HE SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THE BRAVES A HOME TOWN DISCOUNT?WHY THE FORMER G.M. J.S. DID’NT DO THE BRAVES ANY FAVORS WITH HAMPTON.DON’T BLAME ANDREW A BIT DO LIKE HAMPTON GET ALL THE MONEY YOU CAN WHILE YOU CAN.WHO KNOWS WHEN YOU JUST MIGHT GET INJURED.

By Saltywoody

November 28, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

Is it just me, or are there a lot of people standing up for the Mets on the Braves blog today?

LEW I’m with you, man. Anyone that goes to the Mets is crap. If Smoltz went there, I’d hate him. And he’d be awful. If Chipper went to the Mets and hit .400 with 84 homers and 539 RBIS, I’d still say he had a sub-par year.

What is there to defend? Something about those orange and blue uniforms and playing in the shadow of that stupid apple in Right-Center just transforms players into losers. It’s not our fault.

Granted, this probably isn’t what you’re saying at all. You’re reasonable and methodical in your approach. I’m just overly emotional and irrational.

But, let’s face it. The Mets suck farts.

By Saltywoody

November 28, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

LOST BRAVE

I’ll say it on everyone’s behalf…that was a BRILLIANT post. Totally deserved caps lock and everything. You really know your stuff.

I mean, Andrew Jones. That guy is great. You know who else is great? Andruw Jones. I hear he’s pretty good.

By Thirsty Horse

November 28, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

clip clop clip clop clip clop. BANG BANG BANG

An Omish drive by shooting.

Good moniker Lost Brave. Honesty is the best policy.

By David-ATL14

November 28, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

The 41 Man roster mystery is solved.

Tom Glavine has not officially been added because his contract language and such have not been approved in the MLB office and the Players Association. Nothing that won’t be approved just a laborious paperwork process.

This info is straight from the horse’s mouth. Frank Wren. He did a call in show on BravesShow/Scout.com

Devine still has an option for the 08 season and Aybar is truglling in winterball currently. Don’t lok for much here.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Sorry if quoting you the stats the guy actually put up offends you and reinforces what you think my motives are for pointing out the truth. You still have yet to show me where I was wrong. Oh, and as far as our own center field situation-I would be comfortable with Lillibride, Blanco or Anderson going out there, or Wren’s plan to look for someone else.

Not really sure why the Braves ONE position open for question has anything at all to do with the Mets and their numerous holes. It also doesn’t make a damn bit of difference what my feelings are or aren’t. The facts remain that the Mets are in some deep doo doo. I know they won’t get Santana, but Pedro is NOT going to replace Glavine and they will have to get more pitching. Even if they try to trade for Haren or Blanton, the fact remains that they have damn few bargaining chips or trade pieces and every one they DO have will leave an additional hole in their lineup. Besides, with Blanton or Haren, they still only basically replace Glavine and fill no other holes. Hey, the Braves are ready to go today, if need be. The Mets? Not so much.

By Dane Cook

November 28, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

Met Fans: Last years loss is not forgotten. I still love you!

By Dr. Phil

November 28, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

For those still mourning the loss…

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 28, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

Just wanted to provide a couple of updates on braves prospects in winterball. I copied these from the Braves website. WHO’S HOT: OF Gregor Blanco (Braves) hit .300 (6-for-20) with a pair of homers and four RBIs in six games. He ranks fifth in the league with a .418 on-base percentage and fourth with 26 runs scored. OF Doug Clark (Braves) has a seven-game hitting streak, going 8-for-22 (.364) with two RBIs and a run scored. OF Brandon Jones (Braves) had three straight two-hit games from Nov. 20-22 with two RBIs and four runs scored over that span. WHO’S NOT…3B Willy Aybar (Braves) is batting .194 (7-for-36) in his last 10 games to drop his average from .321 to .250. OF Gorkys Hernandez (Braves) went 1-for-8 with four strikeouts in five games, dropping his batting average to .152. OTHER ITEMS…OF Carl Loadenthal (Braves) has a league-best 11 stolen bases, batting .253/330/614. P Francisely Bueno (Braves) has posted a 3.14 ERA in his last three appearances. For METS folks…WHO’S NOT: OF Carlos Gomez (Mets) has just three hits in his last 21 at-bats (.143) after a four-game stretch where he hit .500. …

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody, I’ll second that. It was brilliant.

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

And thank you, Dr. House, for keeping No. 13 (those who watch, know what I mean)

By David O'Brien

November 28, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

Noticed this line in the story about the Tampa Bay Rays’ proposed plans for a new ballpark, which would have a retractable “sail-like” structure to keep out rain, but not a conventional retractable roof with air conditioning:

“The design calls for climate-cooling techniques that will lower temperatures 8-10 degrees. Those include keeping the “sail” up during the days before games. Michael Kalt, the Rays senior vice president of development and business affairs, said the process should at least make the mid-summer temperature inside the stadium comparable to those in Baltimore, Kansas City, and St. Louis.”

To which I’d ask: Has this guy ever been to a 98-degree, high-humidity, mid-summer game in Kansas City or St. Louis? If that’s the comfort level they aspire to …

Hey, but at least it’ll be covered. And to be fair, the site they’re talking about is very nice.

But I gotta wonder how nice it’ll be beneath that “sail” thing during one of those hellacious thunderstorms they get in the Tampa-St. Pete area.

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

Lew

Besides, with Blanton or Haren, they still only basically replace Glavine and fill no other holes

No. You’re wrong. It is an upgrade. Here are Haren’s last three seasons in the American League.

2005: 217 IP 212 hits allowed 163 K’s 53 BB’s 14-12 3.73 ERA

2006: 223 IP 224 hits allowed 176 K’s 45 BB’s 14-13 4.12 ERA

2007: 222 IP 214 hits allowed 192 K’s 55 BB’s 15-9 3.07 ERA

Here are Glavine’s last three seasons:

2005: 211 IP 227 hits allowed 105 K’s 61 BB’s 13-13 3.54 ERA

2006: 198 IP 202 hits allowed 131 K’s 62 BB’s 15-7 3.82 ERA

2007: 200 IP 219 hits allowed 89 K’s 64 BB’s 13-8 4.45 ERA

I need not put Blanton’s stats there because I personally think he is overrated. But Haren is a stud. His strikeout rate has increased every single year, he would be moving over to the National League and be joining a better offensive ballclub than the one he just left. If they acquired Dan Haren, they would replace Glavine’s production and then some. I’m not sure how you could argue against that.

By robdawg06

November 28, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

I’m sure ya’ll have heard about Tony LaRussa’s DUI ? That looks real good since Josh Hancock died in a car crash after leaving a bar caused by alcohol. The report was that LaRussa was stopped at a red light with his head bobbing back in forth (in and out of consciousness). He’s a poor example for all players. If you get a DUI in 2007 your just plain stupid.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 28, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

DOB Amen on number 13….

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 28, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

robdawg06 That is the first intelligent thing I have ever seen you post. Congratulations dude, there may be hope for you yet.

By Gator

November 28, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

DOB…Definitely agreed on #13 for her looks. Kumar is cool too…(because he’s funny.)

By doc

November 28, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

dob, just got back from BEFORE THE DEVIL, stark, dark and wonderous in its complexity. what a cast. hoffman really does play a bad guy well, marisa is quite a lady and albert finney is riveting.

By N8

November 28, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Has anybody else seen the ESPN story on how “close” the Twins & Rays are to making a Delmon Young for Matt Garza swap?

Proposed Garza for Young trade

I know we’ve got good CF prospects coming (and probably faster than not) but has Wren had any discussions with the Rays about Young?

Worst case scenario, he moves to LF when Schafer is ready. Or platoons with Brandon Jones.

I don’t know. Call me crazy, but a 22 year old kid that accumulated 93 RBI, while only having 13 HR, seems like he must be a pretty good hitter (or will be AWESOME when the power comes around).

DOB Is Wren making a move for him a possibility, or is he simply not interested in dealing a young pitcher for him? Clearly we have a few pitchers that can match what Garza is/can be.

I guess, if they feel that Schafer and company, are gonna be ready sooner than later, there is no point in giving up another pitcher, when Glavine and Smoltz aren’t gonna be around for that much longer.

Just curious.

By Lew

November 28, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Why don’t you just stop while you’re ahead. As far as I can tell, the major difference between their last 3 years’ stats is that Haren has pitched about 18 innings per year more and has a better K/BB ratio. Haren has won all of two more games than Glavine over the past three years. Their ERA’s also almost average out to be identical during that time frame. Is Haren probably a better pitcher than Glavine at this point of his career? Maybe so, but he wins just as much and gives up just as many runs per nine as Glavine-or close enough that he won’t be that big a statistical upgrade. He might have longer to pitch in the bigs at a higher level, but his performance hasn’t been appreciably better over the past three years. So he wins a game or three more than Glavine this year. Wow. That will definitely take care of all the Mets’ problems, won’t it? You’ve been missing my point anyway-The Mets need to fill Glavine’s spot, find at least one more starting pitcher after that, get more relief help for Heilman and make sure they have decent backups for their often injured first baseman, left fielder, second baseman and half of their starters. They have to do this by either spending all their mythical money for non-existent free agents or by trading players they either don’t have or can’t afford to lose. Haren, Santana, Blanton, or even Roger Clemens in his prime couldn’t fill all those holes.

By GermanBravesFan

November 28, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

robdawg: that DUI happened MONTHS ago… Yes, it was stupid and I am sure LaRussa realized it by pleading guilty. Any real news tonight?

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Lew

Dude. Haren pitched in the American League man. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Moving over to the NL shaves a half run off the ole ERA. It isn’t as big a difference as some say, but a pitcher like Haren would be better in the NL.

From the sound of what you are saying, you think the Mets will win 72-75 games next season and the Braves will win 95. If that is the case, then this conversation is over because you didn’t watch 2007. Braves finished in third for a 2nd straight year. We need to catch them. The offseason isn’t even over anways. I dislike the Mets, but you down right wish harm on that franchise I could honestly say I only wish harm on the Yanks and Phils. Probably the Red Sox now that they are winnings. But the Mets haven’t won anything yet and their fans aren’t as annoying as Phillies fans.

By uga-brave

November 28, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

dob,

remember the game in fla, when the wind and rain were blowing the tarp and the ground grew all over the place. well put a SAIL over ST. PETE. and i guarantee it will result in a YOU TUBE record.

By Braveheart

November 28, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Better not get used to Shooter Jennings. Dude ain’t long for this world. He knocked up Adrianna from the Sopranos. Tony Soprano might have that good ole boy whacked for messing around with Adrianna. Sounds like it may be time for a sitdown between the Jersey Mafia and the Dixie Mafia. Looks like the first child will not be a masculine child.

By GermanBravesFan

November 28, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

What would (IF the A’s are shopping Haren) it take for the Braves to get him? Obviously, one of the young pitchers and one of the young outfielders? Would a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Haren, Glavine, Hampton/James work for the Braves? ;-)

By wjones

November 28, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

*By David-ATL14

November 28, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

The 41 Man roster mystery is solved.

Tom Glavine has not officially been added because his contract language and such have not been approved in the MLB office and the Players Association. Nothing that won�t be approved just a laborious paperwork process.

This info is straight from the horse�s mouth. Frank Wren. He did a call in show on BravesShow/Scout.com*

Thank you, David. I wonder how long the process will take? And I wonder once he is put on the roster if it will be an arbitration-eligible player getting non-tendered? Tyler Yates? Willie Harris? Who else?

By Greg O.

November 28, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

N8, the Braves weren’t a match with the Rays for that trade. Look what the Twins are getting - a promising young run producer that mainly plays the corner outfield positions and was the No. 1 overall pick a few years ago (closest equivalent the Braves have is Frenchy and that’s not gonna happen), a major league ready center fielder in Jason Pridie (.303, 14 HR, 66 RBI, 89 R, 26 SB between AA and AAA last season), and a major league shortstop that started 135 games last year in Jason Bartlett. The Braves are looking to get a center fielder and a shortstop; not trade them away.

By uga-brave

November 28, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

efrim,

been reading you and lew’s debate. other then glavine’s experience the argument is not even close. haren’s strikeout to walk ratio is better than 3 to 1. glav’s 89 to 64 is somewhat alarming.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 28, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Efrim While true that Phillie fans can be annoying, they seldom post on an Atlanta blog. So……… I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

By Greg O.

November 28, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

N8, wow I must be falling asleep or something. I think I just mixed players in the trade. Rays get Garza, Bartlett, and Morlan. Twins get Young, Harris, and Pridie. So, anyway, the closest thing to Garza that the Braves have is Jurrjens and he’s not as highly touted as Garza, nor are the Braves looking to trade him. They don’t have a shortstop to trade and Morlan is another good pitching prospect. So basically, they still weren’t a match for the deal because they didn’t have a Garza-type pitcher to deal.

By uga-brave

November 28, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

lew,

with all due respect that is a tough argument to win. haren’s 3 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio pretty much says it all. glavine only had 89 k’s last year, i guess that is somewhat concerning. i know he has never been a k pitcher, but still.

By wjones

November 28, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

To partially answer my own question, the only other potential arb-eligible player who might get non-tendered would be Lance Cormier. The other four (Matt Diaz, Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, & Mark Teixeira) would appear to be safe.

By S t i NKy

November 28, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

Let’s see… Dee Obie loves Glavine and Boras and Chipper and Druw and Cox. He really loves Cox.

By uga-brave

November 28, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

wjones,

your interpretation of .OPS is dead on. i have also always divided it by three. the earlier debate about diaz’s worth was quite interesting.

i always thought diaz got more two out hits with no one on, and i gotta side with braveheart about late game rbi situations. with all that being said if you gave him the same amount of at bats as frenchy his numbers would of been better.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

I just read the blurb about the Twinkies/Devil Rays trade. This makes it official , the Twins are in full rebuild mode. Just wait , the Yankees are going to cough up three to five players for Johan Santana.

Carl Pohlad is the Multibillionaire owner of the Twins ( YES , BILLIONAIRE) who consistently keeps the Twins payroll among the lowest in baseball. Not that I blame the guy , they turn a tidy profit , not to mention the two World Championships he has already won as an owner.

Still , it’s almost comical that a team with one of the richest owners in the game is allowing the market (money) to dictate it’s course of action.

By Braves4Ever

November 29, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

efrim I am so glad you made that staement that you “dislike the Mets” cause just reading your posts today one would think you were as “into “them as anders. I was thinking to myself, “I could have sworn efrim was a Braves fan”, but after this day of post I thought I was mistaken. Being objective as Lew seems to be in this matter is one thing but man , dude, you sound like a Mets homer. None of my business , just making an observation.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

UGA-brave, exactly what I was thinking when i read that about the “sail” roof thing. And they do have the most lightning strikes of anywhere in the country over in the Tampa Bay area. Much more than South Florida.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this

Doc, don’t you think Philip Seymour Hoffman has to be one of the favorites for the best-actor Oscar? He’s phenomenal in that movie, as is the entire case. Him and Denzel gotta be two of the five nominees.

I wish Tommy Lee Jones would be nominated for his work in two movies, The Valley of Elah and No Country for Old Men. He’s terrific in both.

By uga-brave

November 29, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this

and to think phillip seymour hoffman got his start as CHAS in SCENT OF A WOMAN. james spader and hoffman both play that smug hateful role well.

By Calvin

November 29, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this

N8,

That trade is official now. A lot of good talent switched teams there.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this

On second thought , the Twins trade that just went down has serious implications for the Yankees.

I see it like this. Johan Santana , Carlos Silva and Matt Garza combined for 81 starts in 2007. That is exactly half the games in a full season. The Twins are going to lose all three pitchers through trades and free agency.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Twins are going to want pitching , pitching and more pitching in return for trading Johan Santana.

That said , the Mets just might have a leg up on the Yankees in this regard due to the perceived reluctance of the Bronx bombers to part with their young pitching prospects.

By uga-brave

November 29, 2007 1:05 AM | Link to this

dob,

the only reason ALONG CAME POLLY was watchable was because of hoffman. i just sharted.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 1:31 AM | Link to this

My fantasy trade : Chuck James and Lance Cormier for Josh Hamilton , Jeff Keppinger and Matt Maloney.

By uga-brave

November 29, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

lew,

first of all your a “damn good dawg” all this mets talk gives credence to my argument about a year ago that minaya is a creation of the media. read the big spread about him in SI over the summer, seems like a great guy but he seems like he does not see the bigger picture.

we were blessed, basically for about 10 years with JS and BIG TEDS money we made nary a bad move.

now the shoe is on the other foot, WILPON has opened up the vault and minaya has delivered nothing. unfortunately, when healthy i think the mets current everyday 8 is better than ours. but we have the intangibles, dont care what anybody says give BOBBY COX just above avg. pitching over 162 and we will win the division.

By Lew

November 29, 2007 1:38 AM | Link to this

People-You’re not paying attention to what I’m saying. I would really like to have Haren on the Braves. Yes, I think he’s a pitcher on the rise while Glavine is at the end of a great career. However, you’re looking at this whole thing @$$ backwards.

First, Efrim-What I personally think of the Mets has no bearing in this matter. Everything I said is 100% substantiated. I have used nothing but logic in my arguments about the Mets’ problems. It is not wishful thinking. Every single assertion I have made is seconded in the interview with Billy Wagner. Their own closer said the same damn thing I’ve been saying all along-The Mets have many needs and they have little in the way of resources to go out and get them. Their own closer states this!!! Yes, I’m positively jubilant that they are in this position, but it does nothing to change the fact that they ARE in this position.

Now Haren-The Mets must first replace Glavine’s 13 wins before they do anything to their rotation. That is a fact. Haren is definitely capable of doing this-no doubt about it. He may even exceed it. Quite possible. However, exceed those 13 wins by how many? Three? Four? Maybe? This is hardly an improvement, especially when, in all likelihood, they had to give up their right fielder and one of their very few pitchers to get him-fill one need and create two more, because then they need to go and replace whoever they traded. How do they do this? With pitchers, it sure won’t be from free agency-there aren’t any good ones. Remember? We checked and discussed it ad nauseum.

So what the whole situation comes down to. The point I have been trying to make all along. Just how does Haren’s bump really benefit the Mets, when his acquisition will cost even more than they can fill? And let us not mention whoever they better get to back up Pedro, El Duque, Del Gado and Moises Alou-all who have missed significant time in recent years.

Now- Am I happy they have this problem and we don’t? Damn right. Does my feeling towards the Mets change their situation? Absolutely not.

By uga-brave

November 29, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this

coach,

love that trade, the only problem is if chucky and cormier made 40 combined starts in that ballpark they might give up 70 dingers combined. however i think hamilton is a freak of a talent and keppinger would be the perfect 5th infielder.

By uga-brave

November 29, 2007 1:58 AM | Link to this

lew,

agree with some of that, but i dont want to see haren in a mets uni. for whatever reason perez is already a braves killer and we have never hit pedro well. throw haren into the mix and it ain’t good. the braves are at the moment a left handed hitting team. i know haren is a righty, but wags at the end is lefty.

By Metropolitan Man

November 29, 2007 2:54 AM | Link to this

Lew: Wouldnt put to much in what big mouth Wagner says. He doesnt even want to come into a game in the 8th inning or if the team is up by 4. Besides, the Philithies and Stros didnt win anything until he left so he is more of a problem than a solution. I like that he can speak up because the METS need a good scream, but Wagner was not that guy. He should have left all of that in house and not MLB. I hope the METS make an example out of a guy who bashes the entire chain of command when his own SH** stinks to high heaven more often then not. Give us a 1,2,3 inning Wagner, not interviews!!!

By uga-brave

November 29, 2007 3:16 AM | Link to this

metro man,

wags is just having separation anxiety. he and glavine drove to to shea together for the last couple of years. either way wags does have a curt schilling mouth minus the rings.

oh by the way the dollar is moving up for a change, in early morning trading. pretty much the reason the barrell has been going down the last two days. there was a time when i thoght BORASS was going to start negociating contracts in the EURO.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 29, 2007 4:58 AM | Link to this

Good morning all, Why is it there is always some yahoo trying to make a statement with his architecture as an art form rather than something functional. It the immortal words of Mr. T, “I pity the fool”.

Why on earth would the fine folks of St Pete and Tampa want to go into a sweat box in the middle of summer. Lord, I hate going to the Ted when it’s humid and muggy. If you are going to the expense of covering the darn thing, complete the task and put in an air handling unit that will do the job right.

It’s one thing to be exposed to 90 degree heat and humidity while lounging by the pool or the gulf, quite another when packed next to some dude who has body odor and is dripping like a faucet.

If they want something unique, build a new arts center or a music hall in which the acoustics don’t suck, but build a ballpark that is actually designed for baseball and go from there.

A sail indeed, they may as well put a “Kick Me” sign on it and an arrow pointing to it so the emergency crews will know where it used to be after the tornado rips through it.

By TM from the AJC

November 29, 2007 5:10 AM | Link to this

Can’t sleep, and I see the blog is ALL asleep tonight. So, I guess I will have to talk to myself.

Right before the winter meetings, I get all anxious, like a kid on Christmas eve (no offense to our Muslim and/or Jewish participants).

As much as I know it will probably never happen (don’t hurt me DOB!), I would sure love to see some magic next week in Nashville, in the way of getting Haren or Bedard (or somebody similar)

As others have stated, I also hope that a decent effort will be made toward retaining Mahay. Gotta keep as many scab left handed relievers as we can!

I like that kid shortstop in St Louis, the one that is in LaRussa’s dog house. Name is Brendan Ryan. I am not sure what he did to tick off Tony, but that is the word on the street. I bet he would love to have a second chance with BC.

As for centerfielders, I still like Ryan Church, and the Nationals could use a catcher (we have a spare in BPena). It would take a bit more, but probably not too much more.

As much as I like the upside of Thorman, I just don’t see him sticking, unless Tex is moved (please don’t hit me DOB, as I know you said he is here to stay!)

I still would offer Tex for Bedard, to see if Baltimore would bite. If they did, then go out and get Lamb or Conine to help out at first. (Thorman retained, in this scenario)

OK, I know, it is late, and I am making some real off the wall ascertions, but what would a staff of Smoltz, Huddy, TG, and Haren or Bedard look like, with either Chuckie,JoJo or JJJ in the 5 spot?

BETTER YET, lets get Haren AND Bedard!!! Tex for Bedard, and Lillibridge, Reyes, and Diaz for Haren. WOW. Now, all we would need to do is go out and get either a firstbaseman or a CF with some pop to make it work.

Could Barroid Bonds play first, if he is not in the “big house” next year!?!?

(don’t take me too serious at 3am mst, folks!)

;-)

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 29, 2007 5:58 AM | Link to this

Yo Grinch Ran across this snapshot of you while surfing this morning. Nice hat. The Grinch

By JasonInMaine

November 29, 2007 7:22 AM | Link to this

For those bloggers who can’t spell Andruw’s name right, don’t feel bad. This is an article from the San Diego Union-Tribune:

How much and where for Andrew Jones?

By doc

November 29, 2007 7:29 AM | Link to this

dob, hoffman deserves it but like you i have seen some really impressive acting this year. hoffman is so believable as the bad guy; i thought it was pure camp in the mi that he did with cruise and sort of scoffed at the idea of him doing it. he convinced me on his one, really tortured. denzel was sterling as was russell, a feat as neither was on camera together until the end and if either had faltered the movie would have flopped big time. jones just keeps getting better, just havent seen valley yet, sometimes it hurts to have two great performances in a year.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

Lew

I do not, under any circumstances, want to see Dan Haren(who is owed 16 million over the next 3 seasons) in a Met uniform. That would be a disaster. They could trade for Haren and then sign Livan Hernandez. That would suck.

By Anders

November 29, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Efrim I appreciate your objectivity concerning the Mets. You reiterated a lot of what I’ve said on here regarding possible trade deals. As I said yesterday my preferred route for the Mets is acquiring Haren. Less costly in players and payroll. Also, while Milledge has not shown himself to be near the player Delmon Young is, the straight laced Twins showed yesterday that teams will put aside personal transgressions by players when the baseball side makes sense. Young has a worse track record than Milledge(He charged an ump with a bat) and even spent most of last season feuding with his Mgr. and loafing periodically as a rookie!Personally I’d like to see Milledge play right for a full season to see what he can do. He certainly would give the Mets more than the 46 RBI Shaun Green did last season. Unfortunately he’ll most likely be lost in a trade.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Anders

No problem. I am just trying to look at it from a baseball sense. If the Mets acquire Haren, it is a good move for them. End of story. If they have to give up a potential RF in Milledge for him, so be it. Haren is a stud. And pitching wins championships. I would love to have him in Braves uniform. Lew, is right though, the Mets need to stregthen the bullpen and acquire two more starters. They can’t think that El Duque and Pedro will give them a combined 400 innings. Even 350 would be asking a lot. The Mets shouldn’t worry about RF, you can find a corner outfielder. They have one in Carlos Gomez. They could sign one, or even platoon Endy Chavez with Gomez there. They need pitching.

By 22oz

November 29, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

DOB: with all due respect to the great No Show Jones, you blew it on the song for this blog regarding Hampton:

*”Rehab”, by Amy Winehouse

They tried to make me go to rehab, I said “No, no no!*

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

22oz, that’s pretty solid. Good call.

As for the Possum, he’s playing in Atlanta on Dec. 7, at the new Cobb performing arts center. I’m told in the last couple years his voice has really diminished, but I’d still love to see him sing one more time….

Meanwhile, great show in Atlanta Saturday, all the big Atlanta up-and-coming rock bands including The Black Lips, Snowden, Selmanaires (criminally underrated, if you ask me) and Deerhunter.

By doc

November 29, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

hampton needs a new physical therapist if he wants to play otherwise continue as he is and collect his bucks for sitting. maybe a new approach is appropriate?

By Anders

November 29, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Efrim I fully expect the Mets to get at least one starter this off season and probably two. Maybe not the eavyweights being discussed right now though.At this point they’re big game fishing with the behemoths. Odds are against them as they usually are in that environment. Players almost always choose the Yanks over the Mets when coming to NY for obvious reasons.If I was the Twins and I had a good deal including a top flight pitching prospect from the Red Sox on the table I’d tell the Yanks I want either Cano or Chamberlain in the deal or we’re going elsewhere. No way you can let the Yanks tell you that both of those guys are untouchable for one of the best pitchers in the game. Call their bluff. The Yanks have more to lose if the Red Sox get Santana then the Sox have to lose if the Yanks get him. I still get the feeling the Sox aren’t as serious about this as others believe which is why I think the twins are dragging the Mets into the conversation but if they are - this is the play.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Doc, if only it were that easy, regarding Hampton and a physical therapist. At this point you can’t help but wonder if age, rust from inactivity, and perhaps even pressure to perform and prove people wrong, are conspiring to render it nearly impossible for the ol’ lefty to do anything without pulling or straining a tendon, ligament, muscle, etc.

Frankly, I’ll be surprised if the Braves get 15 starts out of him in 2008.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Anders

The Red Sox are a bogus suitor for Santana. I think he is going to be a Yankee. Possibly an Angel. Sox are just trying to drive up the price for the Yankees. The Red Sox just won a world series without Santana, why would they deal Ellsbury and Bucholz for him? Of course, they would have a future rotation of Santana, Beckett, Dice-K, Lester and whoever for the next 10 years.

By Wayne in Utah

November 29, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

The Red Sox have jumped feet first into the Johan Santana sweepstakes.

Supposedly they are offering Jon Lester LHP , Coco Crisp CF, Jed Lowrie 2B and Justin Masterson RHP.

Santana possibly playing for the Red Sox in 2008 ? That just isn’t right.

By Anders

November 29, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

DOB I never get into your music raps but I need to know, how was the Miley Cyrus (Hannah Montana) show last night? Will be using any of her songs on future blogs? Just having some fun with ya.Who would’ve ever thought it would be tougher to get tickets to this teenie bopper’s concerts than the Super Bowl? Someone called me creepie yesterday, how about the dude who wanted her used water bottle to frame on his wall in Rodney Ho’s (we’ll leave that one right there) article in the AJC entertainment section today? He’s a freshman in HS - Where’s this kids old man? Must be a proud day at work for him today “Hey I saw your kid in the AJC today.” Awkward pause. “Ok so I need to get back to work. Yeah me too.”

By TBraveFan

November 29, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

A suggestion for Hampton - Dude, try some PILATES!! Stretch yourself out more, it sure couldn’t hurt!!!

And Tampa just might find it ‘sails’ away if caught up in one of those awesome water spouts that pop up down there all the time….

By 22oz

November 29, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Slow news day on the ol’ blog, the main exchange is about the Mets, by a Met fan! Looks like the Braves Hot stove is currently on “low broil”. The current situations have been debated to death: Who’s in CF? We need a LHP! Payroll? Hampton hurt again!

I did like the Rays/Twins trade. Its good to see TB actually make a trade that helps them NOW. Maybe they’ll turn a few heads this year.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Why even bother if the Red Sox get Santana? For that matter, the Yankees as well. Santana, Wang, Pettite, Chamberlain, Kennedy and Mussina?

By Anders

November 29, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Reagrding Hampton - I really liked his game. He was an absolute bulldog. He played all out wether he was pitching fielding or batting. A real gamer. I wish more guys played like him. I do think it caught up to him as he put his body at risk all the time(Which is the reason most don’t play that way). I think some of his early football adventures probably caught up to him too. As I said a few weeks ago, him coming back at even 3/4’s was my biggest fear for next season. However it appears his body is just shot.

By Lew

November 29, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Y’all are still not seeing the point I’m trying to make on the whole Mets’ thing (I’m just tired of rehashing center field options). Who, exactly, are the Mets going to trade for any pitching? Who can they afford to trade without having to immediately replace them? All the money in the world (which I’m still not convinced that the Mets even have) will not help get Haren or Santana. These teams want prospects or ML ready personnel-probably pitching. The Mets flat out don’t have any to spare. That is an indisputable fact.

Now everyone wants to lament the Braves pitching. However, we have four starters (Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine and James) who made 30 starts last season. The Mets have one (Maine). They have one more (Oliver Perez) who made 29 starts. Then you have El Duque (24-and you’ll be lucky to get that many again), Pelfrey (13 and not many were worth a damn), Pedro Matrinez (5 and hasn’t started 30 since 05), and Philip Humber (1). They have one minor league starter, Kevin Mulvey and one reliever, Carlos Muniz, who are even vaguely ML ready-and that’s not a certainty. Who are they going to trade for Haren, Santana, or anyone, for that matter? Even if the A’s or Twins were willing to take a package of three of them, or two and Milledge, where does that leave the Mets? They already need at least two starters. They’re going to trade one or two of who they have for one. Great, then they STILL have to get two more-with no more trade bait and a very weak Free Agent pitching class. I’m sorry, I just don’t see it happening. LAST year was the time for Omar to start boosting his rotation. He did not do it and now the Mets will pay the price. It has been a real bad job by your GM and that’s all there is to it.

Sorry guys-this is the truth and nothing but. The fact that I don’t like the Mets doesn’t enter into it. Y’all have yet to tell me-what package could they put together the A’s would accept and then where does that leave the Mets?

MetroDude-Now you’re unhappy with Wagner? Oh my!!!! Whether or not you’re pleased with him-he’s your closer. Certainly nothing you can do about it and it will certainly affect the team-on the field and apparently, from the comments he made (big mouth or no), there will be clubhouse dissension yet again. Queens will be SUCH a pleasant place for baseball next year, right?

But hey-don’t feel too bad. The Phillies still have to find pitching, too-and a center fielder. And a decent third baseman. Y’all are not alone in your needs.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Tamba Bay is going to be a force by 2011. Mark it down.

By bruce

November 29, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

If Brayan Pena could back-up Teixeira (trade Thorman) and learn to be an awesome bunter then Sammons could get alot more playing time giving McCann late innings off without risk. Also Pena would become much bigger threat at plate in bunt situations with infield playing in for the bunt. Pena then becomes a primary situational bunter, a developing switch-hitter off the bench, backup-first, third catcher, and other positions he learned last year in Richmond in emergencies.

Thirsty Horse: thanks for your advice in your November 26, 2007 9:49 PM post. Is this long enough? BTW, I thought you were very funny that night in your many posts. Thanks, Bruce

By Anders

November 29, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Efrim Amen to your 10:34 post. I couldn’t blame the Orioles, Blue Jays and D’Rays if they sold off all their expensive players and sat tight until some order is restored. How would you like to play the Yanks and Sox 38 times. Your now 10-28 basically to start - Ready-set-go…. Now try and catch somebody for the Wild card. Guess what’s coming? - another wild card spot. Just watch. Top team in each league gets a bye first round. So what if they have to play on Thanksgiving!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Whoever gets Santana is going to give up at least four players , probably five. Two or three of those players will be top pitching prospects.

What is Santana worth , you ask ?

Um , let me think for a second. Ok , times up.

1.Hall of Famer in th making.

2.Dominant left hander with nasty stuff.

Twenty-eight and just entering the prime of his career.
He all but guarantees any team a playoff appearance for the next 5-7 years.
I could think of a lot more. But , we all get the idea.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Actually , thats just a bunch of number one reasons as to why Johan Santana is about to alter the balance of baseball.

It’s going to be great for the Yankees or Red Sox and bad for the game.

By Lew

November 29, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Coach-The only point that might invoke some disagreement is the assertion he will make his team a playoff lock. No one player can guarantee that. Look at ARod and the Mariners and Rangers and any number of other huge free agent types. He will certainly help any team he is with, but that’s all you can count on. Even the best player in the game never guaranteed a WS appearance.

By AdirondackDave

November 29, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Dave, you got it right with Hampton. I’d be thrilled/shocked to get 15 starts from him. I’ll be surprised with more than 2. I know FW has other needs to fill but I’d be serious about getting a proven, young starter if I had my druthers. The old pitching cliches are right and in a couple years, with Smoltz and Glavine out of the picture, our pitching needs will be dramatic and the cost for proven talent perhaps even much higher.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Lew , A-rod can’t pitch. Maybe Santana won’t guarantee any team a playoff appearance , but with the Yankees or Red Sox , I have to believe they are playoff teams for the foreseeable future with Johan Santana anchoring the starting pitching.

By Hammy the Brave

November 29, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Do you think the Braves are keeping Cormier and Carlyle on the 40-man roster because they’re hoping to trade them? Otherwise, I think they’re keeping off prospects such as Dan Smith, who I’m afraid will get picked in the Rule 5 draft.

Also, don’t you personally think the Braves should protect themselves by picking up one more starter? Even a reclamation project like Matt Clement, or Kris Benson would give them a greater comfort level.

I think they’re still trusting Hampton’s comeback too much, and I’d rather have Jurries and Reyes at Richmond, to start the year.

     Hammy the Brave

By John

November 29, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I would trade hampton for a case of new baseballs. What a loser! He has been the highest paid Brave for years and he is worthless. Thanks for nothing!

By John

November 29, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I would trade hampton for a case of new baseballs. What a loser! He has been the highest paid Brave for years and he is worthless. Thanks for nothing!

By wjones

November 29, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Even the best player in the game never guaranteed a WS appearance.

True, indeed. Babe Ruth, iirc, only managed 7 rings-3 with the Bosox as a pitcher, and 4 with the Bronx as a slugger (with Gehrig and company on his team for much of that time!). Willie Mays-only one ring. Hank Aaron-only one ring. And so forth. DiMaggio was about the most prolific-9 rings in 13 years-and that was with the greatest dynasty in sports history.

By Wayne in Utah

November 29, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Johan Santana situation: the rich getting richer, maybe. If the Yankees, BoSox, or Angels get him, that will be the case.

The Beatles said “Money can’t buy me love” but it sure can help to buy a playoff position!

Would the A’s take a package of Lillibridge, Reyes, Pena and Locke for Haren? Would that be too much? Is Lillibridge too good of a prospect to let go for a pitcher like Haren or one of the others (Bedard, Blanton, etc.)

Santana is not an option for the Braves, unless we move out Teixeira, and I don’t see that happening.

Yes, I have also heard Frank Wren say the Braves are happy with the rotation, but I would love to see us get younger a little more quickly. Remember the 90’s! Pitching wins championships.

I see one of the big three on our staff having issues next year: Smoltz, Glavine or Hudson. Too old and too risky to be maintained.

By AdirondackDave

November 29, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

John — I would like to see Hampton exit too, but it’s not likely to happen unless/until he’s out for the year. If this happens, the Braves reportedly get $6-$8M insurance money which would certainly help pay for other talent. No one else would take him and the prospect for ins. money may be their best hope for his last year. It is from my point of view.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 29, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

I think the Braves need to get another starter as well. While Jurries, James, and Reyes may do well to fill out the #4 and #5 spots if Hampton doesn’t pitch, I would feel better if a Carlos Silva was filling one of those spots.

By Wayne in Utah

November 29, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I might agree with John on one point. A case of balls might be more of a help to the Braves than will Mike Hampton, but I have to strongly disagree with you John on another point. Mike Hampton is NOT a loser.

People who call others a loser because that person has been injured, should maybe look in a mirror. No way do you fake any of the injuries that Hampton has been afflicted with.

So, has he been a bad bargain for the Braves? Certainly! Is he a loser? Not on your life.

Let’s talk about our disappointments in a players play or ability to be able to play, but leave out the personal attacks please. Nobody twisted the Rockies arm to sign him to that big contract, and nobody held a gun to JS’s head when he traded for him. Just some bad luck.

By BamaBravesFan

November 29, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Love the blog. First time poster, but been reading for a while. Quick question…how was No Country For Old Men? You may have given your review already, but I must have missed it. Going to see it this weekend.

Thx

Roll Tide

By wjones

November 29, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

I would trade hampton for a case of new baseballs

So would the Braves, I’m sure, if the team trading the baseballs would agree to pay Hampton’s contract. They might even do the deal if the baseball trading team agreed to pay $10 million of it.

By Renegator

November 29, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

So slow in the off-season. We need more to talk about.

Who you got in the SEC championship this weekend? LSU or Tenn?

By Renegator

November 29, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

DOB:

As a follower of Big 12 football - who you got in the Mizzou/Oklahoma showdown this weekend?

By Braves4Ever

November 29, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

LEW I hear you guy. Apparently others like Ken Rosenthal agree too. Check out MLBTR ” Can the Mets Aquire an Ace”.This quote is of interest, ” It seems as if the very best package the Mets can assemble might only be enough for Blanton.” Maybe a few retreads from the weak free agent market is the best they can do. I am not gloating over it but it seems Omar is not the genius everyone was proclaiming him to be.

By Get Off His Back

November 29, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

To all you Hampton haters, have you ever played a sport??? You don’t control when you get injured. Yes, he has more than his share of bad luck but did you watch the video from the link posted. Hampton looked pretty good to me until he when down awkwardly on a grounder hit back towards him. Anyone could have gotten injured on that play. His leg has time to heal, just be glad it does not involve his pitching arm.

By chris

November 29, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Wayne: Right on.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 29, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Look, I think most of the people here are reasonable enough to know that its not Hampton’s fault he is always injured. But, the fact remains he is always injured and can’t be counted on for any real production. What kills me is the same people who will defend Hampton are the same ones saying, “Don’t get Rocco Baldelli because he is injury proned.” Uh…okay. That makes sense.

The reality is that Hampton has not really ever contributed to this team. He has held it hostage so to speak over the last few years. Here we are again with the Braves expecting him to fill a rotation spot and not going after another pitcher because “he should be ready for spring training”. Well, excuse the hell out of me if I don’t buy that. Have heard it before.

I like the guy. Nobody more than me hopes he can come back and win 15 games. However, who here among us even thinks he will start 15 games let alone win 15. Hell, if were betting I would bet he doesn’t start one game this year. This may sound harsh, but I can’t wait for ‘08 to end so the Braves can be rid of him and his $15 mil salary which could go to a lot greater use.

Even if the insurance has been paying half his salary the last two seasons think about how much that $8 mil would have helped this team.

By doc

November 29, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

dob, there is a lot for him to overcome and you highlighted so many of his issues. realistically he hopefully is looking into many different areas of potential for help including the kind smoltz had early in his career. he seems to be tightly wound and should look to many avenues to “loosen” up by observation of his recent injury list. traditional stuff might not be exactly what he needs at this time.

15 starts would be great or maybe even treat him like they did smoltz after his last surgery when he initially didnt have the arm strength to go far for short inning work as he comes back into his own. out of the box thinking i know but arent they short a lefty relief man? what few innings we have gotten out of him have been awesome. good stuff my friend, keep it up, enjoy it immensely.

By 22oz

November 29, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

Since UGA has risen all the way to No. 4 somehow, i’ve got UT in the SEC, OK in the Big 12, Pitt beats WVA, and UGA vaults to the National championship. Might as well call it in this crazy season.

As for the Braves, I see their moves at the Winter Meetings as follows: they trade Thorman for a left handed reliever we’ve never heard of, or one that we hope to rebound after a mediocre to terrible 2007 (Tom Martin anyone?). I see nothing happening in CF, and we go to Spring Training with the competition between the 3 prospects, which i prefer anyways.

As for the SOX in the lead for Santana, if the Yankees are the evil empire, what is Boston?

By cricket

November 29, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I live in tampa bay and follow all their teams. I am original from ATL and a braves fan. Mark this down - TB is going to amount to NOTHING in 2011. I’ll bet anything on that.

By TK

November 29, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

Did anyone else read Harden vs. Santana on ESPN by Buster O? Good article. Tennessee over LSU…LSU is beat up and Miles has one foot out the door.

By B

November 29, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Mets offer jose Reyes for Santana on ESPN ? any truth to this.

By robdawg06

November 29, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Gil, I think outside the box. I don’t care if it offends you,DOB,the team,whomever… I was taught to speak your mind. I’m just wondering about most of you in here… Nobody but Robert and I have a problem with a 70 year-old manager (Cox) that has had his shot in life (and done well) at managing that needs to retire. You guys freaked out when I mentioned possibly C.James pitching an inning of relief last season. Is he a wuss that can only pitch on 5 days rest or a man that will go all out to help his team ? The standard way of thinking keeps most people in ruts in their lives. Try something different out of the ordinary once in a while, you might like it and benefit a lot from it… The only dumb comment in my opinion is one not spoken. If you don’t like what someone blogs then don’t read it or read it and disregard it. That’s what I do.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Cricket

Why? Give me reasons. I can give you 6- Scott Kazmir, James Shields, Matt Garza, Wade Davis, Jake Mcgee, and David Price. All of which are top of the rotation type starters.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

renegator, I’m gonna take Mizzou. Chase Daniel made a big-time believer out of me. If he has a good game, I think he’ll win the Heisman over Tebow (though I think McFadden’s the best player)….

robdawg06, it sure doesn’t offend me. but who’s “truth” you speaking? its yours. that’s fine. but that’s called opinion, not “truth,” right? just like much of what I write here is opinion, unless i’m stating an actual fact, in which case i’ll identify it as such, in most cases.

Fact: Cox isn’t 70, he’s 66….

By ObiWanKobe

November 29, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

DOB - Agree w/ you on No. 13, nice piece of scenery.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

BamaBravesFan, “No Country for Old Men” is terrific. Just don’t expect a tidy Hollywood ending, because you’ll be disappointed if you do.

Great movie. So is “Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead.”

By Steamboat

November 29, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

cricket, agreed on Tampa… they’ll never put a winner on the field until they decide to make winning the priority, over huge profits.

Last year, the Rays received over $30 mil in “revenue sharing” but had a payroll of just $24 mil. So (oversimplifying a lot), every dime of ticket revenue, tv revenue, etc, went to profit.

The Rays are typically one of the most profitable franchises in baseball (they made $27 mil in ‘05, the last year I could find figures for).

Revenue sharing is fine, but it should come with some requirement that the teams receiving the money actually use it to put a winner on the field.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

And Cricket….

Evan Longoria, Carl Crawford, BJ Upton, Carlos Pena, Reid Brignac, Elijah Dukes, etc….

Young talent that no other team in the majors can match. Will it translate into championships? Maybe, but to say they will still be irrelevant is stupid.

By rich brave

November 29, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

GIL:

Just wanted to say hello. No by-pass THIS time. Only a handful of stents. As far as opionions, its good to be alive comes immediately to mind.

Baseball opinions have not changed. Two major players and a bench and LET’S GO BRAVES!!

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

HammyTheBrave, yes, I think they’re keeping Carlyle and Cormier both for depth (just in case injuries happen before or during spring) and/or because they might be able to trade them, perhaps as part of a package for a piece they need.

Yes, as I’ve said, I’d like to see the Braves acquire another starter. But do I think it’s crucial? No. Not like last year at this time. Jurrjens had some nice starts when thrust into a playoff race with the Tigers, straight outta Double-A. And his last three in Double-A were absolutely dominant, man-among-boys stuff.

And Reyes impressed me a few times, especially late in his callup. One or both of those guys can do fine if needed. Bennett would also be fine in a fifth-starter role. And Chuck is Chuck. Fine in one of the back two spots, if that’s how it ends up.

By David-ATL14

November 29, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

WJones:

You asked about the process onec Glavine’s contract is officially on the books. I suspect that by the time this happens a small move will have been made to free up a roster spot. If not then paraphrasing FW from his chat last night, Misters Cormier,Carlyle from the pitchers and Mr Thorman from the position players side may be headed out.

Now this wasn’t said directly but in discussing the makeup of the bench and the depth of the starters who are competing for long man or injury depth, these names were not prominently mentioned.

By GermanBravesFan

November 29, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Good morning to all from the West Coast… I found this piece by Jason Stark on espn.com just now and it contains possible trade scenarios, etc. (some pretty funny stuff, some serious stuff):

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3132761&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

Some Braves related info on there: Dave Roberts is being mentioned as a veteran in center field in case Jordan Schafer is not ready…

A good fit for Andruw Jones: Kansas City…

The article also mentions that the A’s will NOT take Milledge in a trade for Haren.

By Lew

November 29, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

RJIB-You’re a bit over the top on Hampton, Dude. “Never contributed to this team”? Perhaps you are forgetting the 32 wins he posted in just a bit more than two seasons with the Braves? Also, as far as not signing Baldelli after we signed Hampton? Come on, Baldelli has been injured since day one of his career-continually. Hampton was not injured (definitely not chronically, if at all) before the Braves picked him up. The only hit against him was his lousy performance in Colorado. We though he could reverse that trend in Atlanta and he did-until the current crop of problems.

Dude, I, among many others, are frustrated because of his continued inability to pitch, but at least get your facts straight before you rant about it. Besides, there is not a damn thing you, me or anyone else can do about it at this point. Hike up those leotards and get over it.

By cricket

November 29, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Efrim, This is my last response to you as I don’t have as much patience and time as Lew to discuss with someone whose IQ level just allows him to resort to uncalled for name-calling. By your ill-logic, all teams that spend a decade finishing near bottom, thereby collecting cheap talent will eventually float up to amount to something. Yes, that has happened so many times in MLB. Here in TB, they will declare a holiday the day there are more than 500 fans less than 60 yrs old attending any game, hence the econimics is never going to work, not even in the new stadium. But off course you don’t have to consider any of this as long as you can call someone stupid on a blog !! Elijah Dukes ??? You do realize that a player has to be out of trouble enough to be able to play to have any impact, right??

By Lew

November 29, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

That Jason Stark article is some of the best baseball humor I’ve seen since the Drooling Mets Fan claimed that ARod was headed to Queens. One thing is for certain-most analysts think the Mets chances for any significant pitching help are slim to non-existent. They even stress that the A’s are no longer even interested in Milledge. Good luck with the Mets and the futility they face.

The best line in the article was the fan proposal to trade Miguel Cabrera to the Yankees for $100 million cash so they could buy a new stadium. That guy would have won a Wurlitzer for something-probably Thinking Outside The Box.

By Lew

November 29, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

One more thing from the article. They claim that interest in Andruw has dropped to the point that they think the Royals will sign him. Oh! The Humanity-or lack thereof.

By Anders

November 29, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

To all: It’s baseball’s dirty little secret. The Wild Card was instituted to appease teams that want to compete but can’t spend the obscene amounts of money the big guys do. A second bite at the post season apple if you will. Revenue sharing was created to appease the teams that have no desire to really compete i.e KC, Tampa, Pittsburgh etc but are required to fill out the dance card for others to play. Those owners take the money and run every time. Now in the AL with two teams in the same division spending obscene amounts of money (Yanks, Red Sox) that leaves little chance for others to get in without divisional championship. I see 2nd WC teams on the horizon. Call it my “Sixth Sense”.

By ncscoots

November 29, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Whether TB will rise to the level of the talent on their ballclub, I don’t know. But, I’d feel pretty good about the Braves’ future were their rotation fronted by Kazmir, Shields, and Garza. There is no denying that the Rays have a ton of positional talent, and their starting pitching just took a big leap forward, so they look a lot less irrelevant than they did a week ago.

Learning to win, that might be another story altogether.

By Steamboat

November 29, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

I like Tampa’s young talent a lot. The question is whether they’ll pony up to keep it when the guys start reaching arbitration and/or free agency. History says they’ll trade the talent for even more prospects. You really can’t win with nothing but 26-year-olds making no money. They’ve got a great base to build on, but will have to increase payroll by about 100% to keep it intact.

Anders, I sure hope you’re wrong about expanding the post-season, but I wouldn’t be surprised… an NBA model where half the teams in the league reach the playoffs…ugh… why have a regular season?

The Stark article was good… it is amazing, eery, how little you hear about AJ.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 29, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Lew, you are correct about Hampton’s 32 wins. What I meant to say (should’ve said) was that the last two plus years he hasn’t been much use to this team. Your take on Baldelli is not totally correct. His first year in the majors he stayed healthy and was great. And, as far as my point about how can somebody say “give Hampton a break” and at the same time dismiss any mention of trading for Baldelli is totally legit. They are both injury prone. I could care less what Hampton did five years ago. I’m talking about now.

I like the guy. I hope he comes back and is succssful. But, if you or anybody else believes that he should be counted on, you are crazy. It would be asinine to do that. That is all I’m saying.

By Tee Shirt Slogan Of The Week

November 29, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Be a cunnilinguist, not a cunning linguist. Cunnilinguists blog with DOB. Cunning linguists blog with the Chop Chick.

By Anders

November 29, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Steamboat MLB is printing money these days. They want more . Postseason = $’s . Plus I’m sure Selig said “Hey we had 7 teams in the NL race in September this year. Allowing two in the WC rather than 1 won’t hurt that.” Additionally by offering byes to the league champ you keep the top teams playing hard and their fans interested right to the end. I don’t want to see it either but I sure can feel it as the Yanks and Red Sox dwarf the rest of the AL in payroll(Angels not withstanding).

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 29, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Actually, the Royals would do good to sign somebody like Andruw. He would bring a veteran presence and give them a legit power threat given he can actually make contact with the ball. He is an attraction so it would bring people to the park. Don’t sleep on the Royals. Given the circumstances this team played quite well and was not an easy win for any team who played them. They are getting the pieces into place. I don’t think they will contend in ‘08 but wouldn’t at all be surprised to see them win 75 games or so.

By nOLIE

November 29, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Fact: Cox isn�t 70, he�s 66�

yep. in fact he’s younger than Torre.

By Mark

November 29, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

By Efrim

November 28, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Lew

Dude. Haren pitched in the American League man. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Moving over to the NL shaves a half run off the ole ERA. It isn�t as big a difference as some say, but a pitcher like Haren would be better in the NL.

—Try telling that to Barry Zito…

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 29, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

*robdawg06 You must use your scroll button a lot then….

By Anders

November 29, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Robert The Yanks and Red Sox are virtual locks for the playoffs every year now the way they’re set up so KC would have to win the division. The odds of them beating out Detroit, Cleveland or the better managed organization Twins all in the same year is almost nil. They’re going nowhere. They do have a better chance than the D’Rays though. This problem is not going away.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 29, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

rich brave Glad to hear everything turned out alright. When you did not post for a day I got a little worried. Just stay away from sharp object for a while because I know they now have you on blood thinners.

I don’t mind some people thinking outside the box as long as they are kept inside one. Many “new” ideas are really old ideas with new names. As for support for Bobby Cox, it is because I lived through the Chuck Tanner years.

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Mark

Zito doesn’t throw nearly as hard as Haren. In fact, Zito has always displayed control problems. The writing on the wall was there. If you couldn’t see it, then you know nothing about baseball. Haren is a stud pitcher. The Giants were idiots to give Zito that type of a contract. Haren would dominate in the NL.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 29, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Anders, I didn’t say the Royals were going to the playoffs in ‘08 but within the next three years or so I could see it happening. They have a solid young nucleus and a GM who seems to know what they hell he is doing. Believe me I understand about the Yanks and Red Sox but I would not be so quick to think the Yanks are a lock for the playoffs next year. If they don’t get Santana they will be heading into ‘08 with a very young rotation albeit very talented. If Chamberlin goes into the rotation it leaves a gaping hole in the bullpen with nobody to fill it. Mussina is all but done in that rotation. And, lets not forget that team is still old. They are saddled with Matsui and Giambi. Damon can still play but when combined with the other fossils he is more of a liability than a asset. Their bullpen still sucks.

Lets not forget that nobody thought the Rockies would ever get into the playoffs with the likes of the Dodgers and Padres in their division. Well, guess what?

Money is not everything. Yes, the Red Sox have lots of cabbage but the reason they win is because they have a GM who is brilliant, an ownership smart enough to let him do his job and a manager who knows how to handle his players.

By Anders

November 29, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Efrim I agree with your assessment of Zito versus Haren. Zito throws that long dropping curveball out of his 6”7” frame. His mechanics need to be just right to be effective. Personally I think he would fared better if he came to the Mets and hooked back up with Peterson with who he had success. I wouldn’t pay him near that money though. Your drop of 1/2 run moving from AL to NL is the gnerally accepted rule.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 29, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Now, I should know this but are the winter meetings next week or the week after?

By Anders

November 29, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Robert You were clear that they wouldn’t make the playoffs in 08. I was generalizing. As for the Yanks - they came back from a brink this year when I didn’t think they’d have a prayer. I’m convinced that $175mil + just can’t be kept out of the playoffs. There’s just too much depth there for them to stay down too long. Dodgers and Padres are no where near the Yanks and Red Sox. The whole NL is up for grabs. This is an AL problem.

By TK

November 29, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

opps…meant to write Haren vs Santana on ESPN. What about Darin Erstad for CF? I know he can not stay off the DL. But, he is a former gold glove in CF (and 1st). If the Braves can sign him to a minor league contract and he can stay off the DL until maybe June. It would give the kids some time on the farm. Also, inf Alex Cintron was cut by the White Sox. He could be the vet backup ss the Braves are looking for. Could he be worse than Woodward?

By Lew

November 29, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

RJIB-I haven’t counted on Hampton coming back well before the hamstring injury. My point was that your analogy to Baldelli was flawed. Yes, Rocco had a decent year-one decent year and has missed the better parts of three sesons since then. Hampton NEVER missed much of any time in YEARS of success (as well as two lousy seasons in Coors). If Baldelli might put two or three injury free seasons together, the analogy might be close. As it stands now, you’re comparing apples to smashed bananas.

By Hammy the Brave

November 29, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Robert(JITB),

The Winter Meetings are Dec. 3-6(Mon-Thur), and I think they’re in Nashville, Tenn.

I’m looking forward to them and I hope FW is able to do some deals there.

        Hammy the Brave

By Renegator

November 29, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

TK:

No one is worse than Woodward.

By Lew

November 29, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Re: Haren shaving a half run off his ERA in the NL. Would it surprise you to know that the AL ERA last season was 4.51 and the NL ERA was 4.43? For all of MLB it was 4.46. So much for your theory. The League ERA’s have been almost identical for some time now. Go check it out.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Yes, those are the dates for Winter Meetings, and yes they are in Music City….

Steamboat, I think we’ll hear more about Andruw next week, as things sort themselves out and Rowand and others get offers. Andruw’s market will quickly take shape.

By adolf oliver knipples

November 29, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, if you liked Tommy Lee Jones’ recent work, you should check out “The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada,” if you haven’t already. I think it was his directoral debut. Really good movie � great West Texas feel.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 29, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

Renegator, AMEN! Brother!

By soup du jour

November 29, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

Dave:

Hi, new to the blog here, but I’d like to say I really like your stuff. But I do have one question if you haven’t answered it before: What type of GM is Wren? Is he like Schuerholz where he plays his cards extremely close to his chest, or is he open with what he’s discussing? I suppose I’m asking this to find how much I have to turn up my filter on Braves’ rumors that I see…with JS I didn’t believe a word of them unless three different sources posted it. Also, would you say that he’s a dealer or does he like to keep people around? Thanks!

By mo in the boonies

November 29, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

By GermanBravesFan November 28, 2007 10:34 PM | robdawg: that DUI happened MONTHS ago� Yes, it was stupid and I am sure LaRussa realized it by pleading guilty. Any real news tonight?

Actually it was on Google news yesterday that La Russa had another DUI this week. You might owe robdawg an apology for the sarcasm.

robdawg06 BTW, I also have a problem with Cox managing, but we seem to be in the minority on here….I’m resigned to the fact that all we can do is draw attention to all the dumb stuff he does next season, in hopes that some more people might wake up on here.

rich brave Happy for you that things turned out better than you feared.

Gotta go see if I can figure out why the satellite has “been searching for signal” for 23 hours.

By Braveheart

November 29, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the Red Sox are just trying to make the Yankees be fools and overdo it in the quest for Johan. I think the Red Sox want Johan and want him bad. Just as they were once willing to give up Hanley and a few others to get Beckett, they just might be willing to part with Ellsbury to get Johan. They would prefer to pawn off Crisp but that ain’t gonna happen.

The Red Sox are usually smarter and better able to get their man at the right price than the Yankees. The Red Sox got Pedro, Manny, Ortiz, Schilling, Dice-K, Beckett. Those are players the Yankees should have gotten their hands on instead of the Red Sox. The Red Sox even beat the Yankees to Arod and even had Arod and Boras agreeing to a reduction in salary to join the team.

The Yankees just seem to be fools and overpay for the wrong guys at the wrong price at the wrong age at the wrong time to play in the wrong place while the Red Sox go for the right guys at the right price and have shown a better ability to get the better player.

The Yankees even made the boneheaded choice to sign 35 year old malcontent Sheffield instead of getting 28 year old Vlad at about the same exact price. Sure, the Yankees spend their money but they spend their money like fools while the Red Sox are far more prudent.

There are not many Giambi, Abreu, Randy Johnson, Pavano, Kevin Brown and so on busts on the Red Sox. J.D. Drew is close to that but he was pretty big in the postseason, especially with that granny, and time will tell what J.D. becomes up there.

I don’t know if I would trade for Johan however. What high salaried contract that lasted longer than 4, 5 years for a pitcher has ever really turned out well during the course of the entire contract?

But I also would not sign Tex to anything longer than a 4 year contract at the kind of money Tex wants either. Tex is great but something tells me that signing Tex to a very long term contract just might be a noose around the neck of the Braves like the Giambi contract has become for the Yankees. Unfortunately, the Braves don’t have the kind of wiggle room the Yankees have if Tex ends up being a Giambi like mistake of a contract.

By Anders

November 29, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Good 5:47 post about the Red Sox/Yanks thing. I really don’t know how to read this whole Santana thing. I keep going back and forth wether the Sox are really in it or not. I guess we’ll have to wait and see. It certainly would make a good book if you could get everyone’s real story after all is said and done!

By rich brave

November 29, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

GIL IN MECHANICSVILLE:

Thanks for the sharp object warning. Chuck Tanner. Now there’s a blast from the past.

I’m spoiled. It makes me a little bilious regarding our #3,4,5 SP and Renteria’s missing bat. I’ve gotten used to solid line-ups rather than wishing, hoping and backfilling. Who’s gonna’ fill in until some CF down on the farm is ready to produce? Will Glavine and the youngsters perform adequately? The franchise is so close to being back on top, I just hate to see them struggle in a division where one or two PROVEN talents would put them on top. Oh well. It’s not my money to spend and nothing stays good forever, so I’ll take what the team can deliver and like it. After all, I’m a BRAVES FAN!

By Dan

November 29, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

got an idea. Hampton = $15 mil. ish Glavine = $8. which equals just about Santanas salary at around $25 mil. per the following year. Or Haren which would most likely not cost as much in trades i think…then lock him up with hampton n glavine money saved after next year. Twins are looking for a SS if not mistaken..plus much more….so how about Brent Littlbridge(spellin?)plus gorky or josh and a couple of pithers such as Jo Jo, J.J. C.J. and maybe another low A prospect or 2.? not exactly sure what the A’s are looking for but i’d rather go after Haren. 2008..Smoltz,Hudson,Glavine,CJ,JJ,JJ,Hampton,Morton,and whoever else 2009…Haren/santana(either or) hopefully smoltz, hudson, and a couple of young guns with some extra time to develop or get better.Such as CJ or one of the JJ’s i just think there are plenty of good pieces that are tradeable. Any thoughts??? am i putting up a idea???

By getting Haren… also means the mets will still be looking for an ace. Better pitchin will make up for the lack of offense from CF. sooo they could go with J.S. in cf. :)

By Efrim

November 29, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Lew

Efrim-Re: Haren shaving a half run off his ERA in the NL. Would it surprise you to know that the AL ERA last season was 4.51 and the NL ERA was 4.43? For all of MLB it was 4.46. So much for your theory. The League ERA�s have been almost identical for some time now. Go check it out.

The Better hitters are in the AL. The Better pitchers are there as well. I’m not really sure what your point is. Are you honestly saying that Haren and/or Santana wouldn’t be better in the NL? It can’t be. Anyways, drop it dude.

By Shamus Thacker

November 29, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

Bob Horner was a damned arn man compared to Mike “Glass” Hampton!

When is the Glassman’s next rehab start? 2009? Guy’s gotta pretty good deal! $6,000,000 per rehab start, travel with the team all year, all expenses paid including meal money; just sittting back enjoying the game with Bobby, sunflower seeds, Poweraid, and everthang…

Wish I’uhzun indjerd picture……

Dangitt

By Dan

November 29, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

meant to ask…is it a fair idea? am i in the ballpark of a good point?

By rich brave

November 29, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

MO IN THE BOONIES:

Thanks for the boost dude. My mother always used to say I was a “calamity howler.” So I guess some things never change.

As you can see from my last post to GIL, I’ve resigned myself to whatever position the Braves can accomplish in “08. Besides the winter meetings haven’t had any rabbits pulled out of hats yet, and I bet the Braves will pull off the biggest rabbit in the bunch. If wishin’ and hoping can do the trick, I’m with you all and Brother Dave too.

By Billsnv

November 29, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

As far as playoff expansion goes, I think they will add a second wild card team and then the 2 wild card teams will have a 1 game playoff to see which team moves on to the rest of the playoffs. They want to give more of an advantage to the division winners, so if the wild cards have an extra trip to make and have to use up one of their best pitchers while the division winners sit and wait, that may make it harder for the wild card to win it all.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

Just for future trivia reference , September 16 and 17 during the past 2007 season , Andruw , Chipper and Brandon Jones all appeared in the line up together. Both games were wins , pitched and won by Hudson and Smoltz.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Soup, I don’t really think we can form an accurate opinion of what type of GM Frank is based on less than two months on the job.

He plays his cards close to the vest, but not as close as John S. By that I mean, when you ask Frank about the team’s needs, etc, he’ll tell you starting pitching, CF, lefty reliever, backup shortstop/utility man. John wouldn’t make it quite that clear.

Is he a “dealer,” you asked? Well, yes, I do think he’ll be aggressive. But he’s not going to make moves just to makes moves, just to appease anyone. He’s going to follow the plan he and his advisors, including Jim Fregosi and new assist GM Bruce Manno, have helped put together.

I don’t think you need to have your filter up too high. He’s not said anything yet that ended up being BS to throw us off the track or anything like that.

By robdawg06

November 29, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

DOB, I said I “speak my mind” not that I “speak the truth”. Everyone is wrong sometimes. Thanks for the backup Mo. The Larussa DUI was new on Yahoo. I get my sports info. from there. Its good to study the facts then form a pro or con opinion then voice it in a blog. I think its what we all pretty much do.

Unfortunately also on Yahoo’s Hot Stove and Rumors sections there are no mention about the Braves being suitors for any of the top free agents or top pitchers projected to be traded. This includes Rowand,D.Haren,and J.Blanton. I love Glavine being back but we still have two glaring holes at #3 SP and CF IMO. CF is an impact position. Most teams best OF’s and many times best players are CF’s. It would be a shame to lose Andruw and replace him with another top CF. Yahoo is also saying that Tex will be the most sought after free agent next year. So the Braves better lock him up now before they lose out to the Yankees,Mets,Angels,or Red Sox next year.

I think Hampton should retire. He’s gave it his best shot but the Braves need to move on.

Cox 66 or 70, whatever DOB. Everybody I know over 65 is retired. How about you ? You aren’t dead at 65 but you should travel and enjoy life at that age because you have earned it. Plus the turnover gives a hungrier new manager a shot to take a team to the top.

By robdawg06

November 29, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Yeah Gil, I SCROLL about as half as much as you do…

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Hey, anybody else kind of freaked out by that mom doing the strangest freakin’ exercise I’ve ever seen on the Verizon commercial?

It’s the commercial where the dad goes to each family member and gives them a phone and says each of them is his No. 1 (obviously lying to all but one of them, but whatever). Anyway, when he goes to his wife, she’s wearing strange exercise attire and doing some weird herky-jerky robot-like movement that just freaks me out.

There, had to say that. Every time the commercial comes on, I’m entranced and fascinated.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 29, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

Robdawg , your right. Center field is an impact position. But , it’s not undermanned. Schafer and Anderson are more than capable of playing the position at a high defensive level.

Frank Wren has stuck to addressing the two most important aspects of a baseball team. Pitching and Defense.

The offense will take care of itself. A full season of Teixeira , Escobar and B.Jones is going to surprise the hell out of a lot of fans. I won’t be one of them.

Not to mention the addition of some much needed speed on the base paths , which won’t hurt one bit and Frank Wren is far from finished putting this team together for 2008.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 29, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

Rich brave Sometimes we are forced to accept mediocrity and other times it just happens. I am not ready to concede a return of the pre ‘91 Braves. I am just perhaps a bit more patient than some in waiting for the right moves to be made. What I will no longer accept is the excuse that money is the problem. That would be an excuse, not a reason.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 29, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this

DOB You are spending way too much time watching TV…….. However, it is not as bad as the Pepsi Max commercials.

By stampera

November 29, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

yeah, never understood her robotic maneuvers. but then, verizon’s stupid. ‘juke’? anyone?

By Jared

November 29, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

DOB What about a trade for Jim Edmonds? Would he be too expensive?

By Lew

November 29, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

Efrim-The point I was making, if you’d just try to pay attention for a second, is that the supposed difference in run scoring between the leagues is not, nor has it been as wide as you and others seem to think. Why don’t you just try to do little research occasionally, instead of taking the attitude that you know everything and people are out to make you look like an idiot.

From the 2000 season until now, the League ERA-that is the number of runs given up per nine innings was as follows

2000-AL 4.91, NL 4.63-diff. .32 runs pergame

2001-Al 4.48, NL 4.36, diff. .12 rpg

2002-AL 4.46, NL 4.11, diff. .35 rpg

2003-AL 4.53, NL 4.28, diff. .25 rpg

2004-AL 4.63, NL 4.31, diff. .32 rpg

2005-AL 4.36, NL 4.22, diff. .14 rpg

2006-AL 4.56, NL 4.49, diff. .07 rpg

2007-AL 4.51, NL 4.43, diff. .08 rpg

Nowhere in this century has there been a half run differential between either league, so I have no idea why you can claim that Haren, or any AL pitcher, for that matter, will improve by a half run per game ERA coming to the NL. The facts just don’t bear your theory out. The huge difference may once have been an issue, but since 2000, it has not. In the ast three seasons, the biggest differential between the leagues has been barely more than one tenth of one run per game. There is parity between the leagues. The numbers say so even if you refuse to believe it.

By Jeff R

November 29, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

Haren…I’d rather the Braves go for him than another centerfielder. With Anderson here and Jordan Schafer on the way up, I think that situation will take care of itself. But it’s always true that a team never has enough good pitching. If securing Glavine was all about his ability to eat innings and win 13-15 games, then Haren only makes a good thing better, and he’s insurance in the event Glavine doesn’t deliver, or Smoltz, though I think the latter is far less likely.

Besides, Glavine is probably a one-year signing. Haren could fill the void in 2009 and beyond.

By Lew

November 29, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Let’s take this one step further. Since the 2000 season, here are the hitting differences between the leagues- BA-AL leads by an avg. of .07 per year-.270 to .263. Hits per team-AL leads by 54 hits per team per season (about 2 hits per playeron each team). HR- AL leads by all of 5 HR per team per season, or one HR for every five players. OBP- AL leads by an average of .335 to the NL’s .333. Wow, not that huge a difference. I guess your assertion that the American League Hitters are so much better than those in the NL just doesn’t hold water. The only thing to support your conjecture seems to be All Star Game wins.

By i cant take it anymore

November 29, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

blowhan santana. who cares! let blowhan go to the mets and lose him to the yankees. david wright silver slugger and gold glove winner? do these awards mean anything any more? the woman in the verizon commercial is a robot that has no brain and gives trophys to overrated third basemen. i once saw wright hop over a slow roller last season. my wife and i agreed that we thought it was the lamest play we had ever seen. it was so bad, that even little huffy wright had to laugh it off. mercy, do i feel better.

By Gator

November 29, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

Hey what about David Eckstein for the veteran utility role? Buster Olney says that if a team promises him 400 plate appearances he would probably consider a super utility role. He can play all IF positions and maybe even platoon with KJ if need be (probably not). Olney indirectly says Eckstein would even be cheaper then the reliever Jeremy Affelt. With his playoff exp. and energy level he would worth the money.

By David O'Brien

November 29, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

I was shocked to see that new James Bond dude named GQ’s Man of the Year instead of David Wright. What an outrage.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 29, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Gator He would be a great pick up for the team, but David Eckstein’s agent is asking for a four year contract at $10 million per year. A little pricey for a utility guy.

By Braveheart

November 29, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

Knicks lose by 45 points to the Celtics. Will someone, anyone please freaking fire Isiah Thomas already? For crying out loud. I can’t take it anymore. I keep crying about corporate ownership with the Braves but corporate ownership beats that buffoon James Dolan anytime.

I don’t know how many Hawks fans we got on here but I always compare Josh Smith to Frenchy. Both are imperfect players who are beautiful to watch and are so athletic and naturally gifted they can be good enough despite their flaws. But watching Josh Smith play this year gives me even more appreciation for what Frenchy did in 2007.

Last season, McCann got that contract. Frenchy chose not to sign one. Essentially, he chose to wait to see if he could play himself into a bigger one. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But even though he was playing for a contract, Frenchy still went out there and sacrificed his homers and listened to his coaches and kept the faith that despite giving up homers he was doing what is best for his team and for himself in the long run. It is hard for a 23 year old to sort of give up hitting up homers when he knows that lack of homers more than anything are what prevents you from getting paid.

Josh Smith, on the other hand, seems to be trying to be someone he is not in order to get himself paid. He is trying to become a scorer because he thinks that is how he will get paid. To get that big money in the NBA, you need to score 20 or at least show the ability to. It is hard for a 21 year old to understand that he is still not yet ready to be a featured scorer when he is worried about getting millions.

J-Smoove appears uncoachable right now. Hard to blame him on that because I wouldn’t listen to that coach if I were him either. But that is somewhat beside the point.

I wish the Hawks would just sign Josh to a contract already and just tell him to stop worrying about money and just do all of those many other beautiful things he does on the court that make me watch him anytime I can.

Josh Smith does not appear to have that natural poise that Frenchy has. Like any athlete worth anything, it is their arrogance that makes them great. I’m not sure if Josh Smith will ever have the tempered humble arrogance Frenchy has.

Speaking of bad corporate ownership, despite my constant bellyaching about TW/AOL and LM, I’ll take them anyday over the Spirit.

Damn, what a dunk by Camby just now. He should still be a Knick.

By Braveheart

November 29, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

Flipping through internet sites, I saw this insane hitting chart for Chipper Jones

Chipper is crazy with how balanced he is in his approach, swing, and stroke at the plate. Almost an even distribution to all fields. Goes back to that approach he likes to talk about with aiming to smash the ball through center and being able to make the necessary adjustments to either side of the field depending upon pitch type and location.

By Braveheart

November 29, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Here’s Andruw’s feeble spray chart

By chrisklob

November 29, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

Earlier, someone mentioned that LaRussa had a second DUI this week. I searched both mlb.com, Google News and Yahoo and can’t find anything related to this. Could one of you post a link to it please?

Frankly, I don’t think it happened. The first one made a pretty big splash. A second DUI inside of a year would have made an even bigger splash. Since I haven’t seen or heard anything about it I rather doubt that it occured.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 30, 2007 1:10 AM | Link to this

Braveheart Were you around when Don tried to make Chipper into a power guy? Chipper always wanted to hit for high average but Baylor told him he was an RBI guy and needed to swing for the fences.

I think what Chipper has done is to go back to being a high average contact type hitter and letting the homeruns come as they may instead of imitating Thorman and attempting to hit a 500 foot homerun during every at bat.

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 1:23 AM | Link to this

just got done reading larry dobrow’s article about how to fix the mets on cbs sportsline. seems like everyone except us believe glavine is done. he said that was the best off season move by the mets.

first of all, i at least hope and believe glav still has a LOT in the tank. however there are more than a couple naysayers out there.

glav will get a heros welcome in his first couple of starts no matter what. BUT GOD HELP HIM if he gets blown out in the first half.

just imagine all the haters combined with all the other fans getting on him. sports is a “WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY,” i sure hope glavine earns that 8 mill or else it is going to be brutal.

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART,

you and i agree on so many things it makes me sick. other than that TIDE thing you just might be a prophet.

josh smith is shooting 35% he leads the team in turnovers and instead of blocking out is obcessed with blocking shots. this guy could be one of the greatest defensive players in the league, but he keeps jacking up terrible shots.

this brings me to your FRENCHY comparison. neither have proper fundamentals. if any one of you believe that francouer’S swing is 4 hole worthy than you and JOSH should be shooting 3’s.

i will always give francouer credit because i believe he is a WINNER. at some point though that long lunge has gotta change. never never seen a great hitter that hits of his front foot. the dude still has an aluminum bat swing. hitting is a art just ask larry wayne jones jr. he keeps getting better.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 30, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this

uga-brave Remember that blow out game Smoltz had at the beginning of the season against Florida in 2005? I think Bobby said something like “we checked with the commissioner’s office and they are pretty sure they want us to play the other 161”.

At this point I am looking for consistent adequacy from Glavin. I know he is going to lose some games. Even he has said he is no longer a #1 guy but sometimes you have to have a guy who will strap on the leotard and go out there and pitch.

The one thing raw statistics often don’t tell you is about timely hitting or pitching.

Personally, I think the Braves are in a transition mode with their starting pitching staff. There are some decent arms on the way up the system, I think Glavin is just here to hold the fort a while until the fresh troops can arrive.

By rotgut

November 30, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this

If the Yankees trade Cabrera in a deal for Johan I hope they sign Andruw to play center. I like Andruw enough to want to see him do good and he would hit 40+ in NY. No doubt.

AND I really dont want to have to play against him. Take out his offensive skills but imagine how many bloop hits he would steal each game against the braves. Hes still good enough to take away a run from a team with his glove.

DOB- Thanks for the DBT review. I cant wait to hear the post-Isbell tunes.

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 1:55 AM | Link to this

GIL,

are you serious with baylor wanting to make chipper a power guy? chip’s only hitting coach is his pop. HOSS’S whole approach at the plate is based on balance. never seen any other brave that can be fooled on a pitch and still have the ability to keep his hands back. that is something that is taught early.

best hitter i ever saw was gwynn, the guys hands were always quiet.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 1:57 AM | Link to this

Gil, it’s just sick the kind of discipline and confidence that goes into being the kind of balanced hitter he is. I wish we could have 13 Chipper types on the squad. His balanced approach is really applicable to almost every single sport: baseball, soccer, football, basketball, hockey, NASCAR, boxing. Also applicable to most things in life, including blogging. I need to remember that more often.

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this

gil,

the only difference was after JUAN ENCARCION (did not think i would get that one?) hit the slam off smoltz in the 2nd is that smoltz was still 37 and coming off 45 saves.

we are betting a lot that glavine can still be a ground ball pitcher.

gil, i am with you the dude is a competitor and he KNOWS he cant fail. guys that win 300 are JUST DIFFERENT and that goes a long way.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 2:15 AM | Link to this

ugabrave i love watching josh smith. one of the big reasons i am becoming a hawks fan. i think that team is one good coach and one good point guard away from being a legit playoff contender. they need to give josh the damn money and tell him to forget about scoring for another few years and just go out there and score 13, 14 points a game, grab 11 boards, block 2, 3 shots, steal 2, 3 balls and play lock down D. frenchy and smoove are so similar to me except for that intangible quality frenchy has. smoove should concentrate on making the all defensive team like frenchy nabbed himself a gold glove.

i am watching goodfellas right now. “paulie might have moved slow but that’s only because paulie never had to move for anyone.” wish we could say the same for mccann but unfortunately he hits in front of frenchy sometimes and ends up stealing RBIs from Frenchy because he can’t score from second from time to time. But, oh well, Mac and Russell Martin are the two premier catchers in the NL right now.

“Paulie didn’t want anyone hearing what he was saying or what he was being told.”

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

ready for the excuses? could not afford mahay? not available? not in our best intrest? JS would of never gone upstairs if he thought LM would really kick in the money that it would take. for now its a wizz in my ear moment, but no its raining.

By NOLIE

November 30, 2007 2:20 AM | Link to this

Earlier, someone mentioned that LaRussa had a second DUI this week. I searched both mlb.com, Google News and Yahoo and can�t find anything related to this. Could one of you post a link to it please?

HIS HEARING ON THE ORIGINAL MARCH DUI WAS POSTPONED TILL THIS WINTER. HE RECENTLY PLEADED GUILTY AND THAT IS WHAT IS IN THE NEWS NOW

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this

dude i am also watching the fellas on tnt weird. what do you project from my so called gwinnett county all stars this season? honestly.

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 2:40 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

i grew up in MT. vernon n.y. i am italian. goodfellas is not far fetched. there was a time when la costranso existed. paul castanlato was the guy.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 2:46 AM | Link to this

“never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut!” gotta love goodfellas. frankie no nose. never realized big pu$$y from the sopranos was an extra in goodfellas. “funny how? what’s so funny about it? …. funny like I’m a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I’m here to f***’ amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?”

ugabrave i think wren, schuerholz, cox do the best they can with the financial cuffs they are in. i think we will hear excuses about mahay. if the excuse is that he wanted an extra mil or mil and a half more, then that is a bunch of b.s. but if the excuse is that mahay at 36 years old wanted and got a 3, 4 year contract, then that is a somewhat legit concern in not signing him to a contract. hard to sign any reliever to a long term contract because they are so unpredictable, especially one as old as mahay. i dunno.

it is disturbing to see a team supposedly trying to contend lose mahay, dotel, edgar, and andruw. dotel would have made no sense to sign with his injury history and the money and years he is seeking.

andruw did not make sense when he wanted $20 mil. but now that it looks like he might only get $13, $14 mil, I ain’t so sure. i think druw will put up good numbers for the next 3 or 4 years. tex won’t be around after next year no matter what anyone says - not at the money and years he is seeking. i dunno. andruw has only had two really bad seasons in 2001 and 2007. both were contract years. but then he he is lazy, fat, has been beaten up with all those dives. this could be the beginning of the end. he could end up with a very regrettable contract as we watch him play like jerome bettis did the last few years with the steelers. flashes of the old greatness mixed in with mediocre and subpar play and injuries.

i love what the braves got back from the tigres in the edgar trade but they should have kept edgar. this team would have been better off with yunel and edgar getting about 15% of the team’s total plate appearances instead of yunel only getting about 11% of the team’s plate appearances and the other plate appearances being filled by who knows which crony cox picks. a team truly trying to contend does not get rid of an all star caliber shortstop who was only making $6 million dollars and weaken their bench in the process.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 2:56 AM | Link to this

ugabrave you grew up in the money earnin’? i’m a woodlawn bred dirty mick. and, yeah, that movie is pretty darn realistic. those kind of guys were my little league coaches. you don’t realize that vinny’s father does what he does until you get to be about 15 or so - when of course vinny starts doing what vinny’s father does.

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 3:05 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

totally agree we would be a better team with edgar. makes you kinda think where the priorites are. to say we traded edgar fo glav aint fair. no way possible that yunel is edgar, just after a flash. i think he will be fine but we just lost a ton of off. with edgar and andruw. if the boys from gwinnett dont step up, problems?

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 3:13 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

yeah mt. venon was a interesting place many moons ago. well go get your shine box. talk to you later, always enjoy it!.

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 3:19 AM | Link to this

one last thing, ever want some good N.Y. pizza. go to the ELBOW ROOM on pharr road and ask for joe bonnano, we got some real good baseball para. in there. night all.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 3:44 AM | Link to this

Can’t wait till the winter meetings!

By NOLIE

November 30, 2007 6:01 AM | Link to this

With the HOF ballot in the news lately I thought I’dd post this.

Ken Keltne was a major-league third baseman who compiled a .276 batting average, 163 home runs and 852 RBI in his career [4]. According to baseball historian Bill James in the 1994 book, Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame?, a movement briefly developed to elect Keltner to the Hall of Fame. James created the eponymous list in order to evaluate the qualifications of players who have not been elected to the Hall, but nonetheless merit consideration. As a subjective method, the Keltner list is not designed to yield an undeniable answer about a player’s worthiness; for instance, as James says, “you can’t total up the score and say that everybody who is at eight or above should be in, or anything like that.[1]”

The list originally appeared in James’ 1985 Baseball Abstract along with the anecdote of how he got on the”Keltner List”

The Questions of the Keltner List

Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?
Was he the best player on his team?
Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?
Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?
Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime?
Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame?
Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?
Do the player’s numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?
Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?
1. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in?
2. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?
3. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame?
4. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?
5. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?
6. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

Considerations

While the questions themselves were designed to be subjective, many of them (especially the first ten) call for quantitative answers. This is often done by comparing the player’s statistics to those of his peers or contemporaries. These statistics can take the form of traditional baseball measures, such as batting average and home runs, or advanced measures, such as Win Shares or VORP. Furthermore, questions 7 and 8 are often answered using two more of James’ innovations: Similarity Scores and Hall of Fame Standards, respectively.

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this

Looks like Crisp might be off the Braves’ board real quick, as he’s in the middle of the Johan Santanta talks between Red Sox and Twins. Sox don’t want to trade Ellsbury, but no problem trading Crisp, who’s only their fourth OF if he stays in Boston….

INF Loretta might soon be gone, too, to the Yanks.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

Lew

I’m not going to agree with you on it. So don’t bother. The stats are great. You knock Shaun all the time for posting stats, but now you decide to use it for your arguements? If Santana or Haren are in the NL, they have more wins, and probably better numbers. I’m a little too lazy to post Tim Hudson’s stats the last three years against American League opponents, but please look them up yourself. Facing the DH, as suppose to the pitcher makes a bit of a difference.

By kdbanks

November 30, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

I hope we don’t end up with Crisp. As a fan, it’s fun to root for a kid who is getting a shot to prove himself, a la Kelly Johnson, McCann, Frenchy, etc. I’m hoping its Schafer personally.

I do hate the rich getting richer with Santana, whether its the Yanks or the Sox. Sure wish someone like KC had a chance at him.

Wouldn’t a salary cap and more shared revenue seem nice this time of year?

By Steve McP

November 30, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

I had not seen the James list before - I was interested to read the last requirement, presumably this is what was the stumbling block for rose, even though his indiscretions happened after his playing career was over. I assume it will also be the block for the steroids boys eventually.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 30, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Efrim , I’m not sure what your point is concerning Tim Hudson. I’ll just post his numbers from 2002-04 in Oakland.

43 wins 24 losses 3.03 ERA and opponents batted .250 against him.

Those are some pretty impressive numbers when factoring in the DH.

By 22oz

November 30, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Thats too bad about Crisp, i think he could really thrive in a Braves uni in a slightly more relaxed atmosphere. But, i still think we’ll be just fine with our three man tryout in Spring Training.

I look for Thorman to be moved next week for a middle infield bench player. He just does not fit on the roster as a pinch hitter.

By doc

November 30, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

braveheart, josh is more the ilk of andruw than frenchy. like al three but the misperceived smirk on andruw and josh are quite similar. i see it as more one of frustration and self criticism rather than an attitude of lack of concern.

dob, was it too far out of the box to even consider hampton in a partial role as a reliever? :-)) heh heh

seems like the parallel blogs have finally found their own existence. maybe all can relax and be as creative as they want to be in their own hologram. that is all it is anyway.

By robdawg06

November 30, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

A final thought on the overaged managers and coaches in sports. Joe Paterno is 81 and its been proven that everyone is not as sharp after they pass 70 years-old. The mind and body slows down a lot. These coaches and managers are just after the money and prestige. Bobby Cox,Bobby Bowden,and Joe Paterno (for examples) should have retired years ago. The Braves have had the talent to win multiple World Series but only have one (over 10 years ago). The Seminoles and Nittany Lions programs are a far cry from the 80’s and 90’s. What gives ?

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

Coach

What were his numbers from 2005-2007 against AL opponents?

By Anders

November 30, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Uga-Brave Regarding your 2:40AM post not only is Goodfellas not far fetched , it’s based on real guys. Henry Hill is a real guy. Still alive today -he might have left witness protection. Robert Deniro’s character is a real guy. The Luftansa heist is real etc.. They were based out of Howard Beach Queens(think Archie Bunker neighborhood) where Gotti lived and his wife still does today. What makes that movie the most realistic is that you see for most of the guys it wasn’t a very glorious life. You had to earn constantly and you were always one wrong move away from getting whacked.

By robdawg06

November 30, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

Will there be any Braves on the soon to be released steroids players list ? I think Javy Lopez might be on it. Is he still with the Orioles or retired ?

By Savannah Guy

November 30, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

The Wurlitzer: Not just an award. Not just art

Santa came early this year via the US Postal Service. My very own Wurlitzer portrait of Hank Aaron was delivered yesterday evening. I love it. Thanks Lew�great work as always. I hope you can post the art so the other denizens can enjoy it too.

Lew, your Wurlitzer art will be proudly displayed in a special place in my home and will always be a very pleasant reminder of the 2007 baseball season when we were all pulling for our Braves against the odds and down the stretch. It was the most enjoyable season I�ve ever experienced watching my Braves while conversing with Braves Blogmates. This fine portrait will also be a fitting and timely reminder of a true baseball legend and Hall of Fame player whose home run record was earned the good old fashioned way with God given talent, hard work, determination and honesty.

Mostly, this portrait will be a personal and touching reminder of when my father met Hank after a game and was given an autographed home run baseball by the man himself. My dad gave that special memento to me and, although I�m not an autograph seeker or collector, I�ll treasure it forever.

My plan is to construct a special frame for Hank�s portrait that will also provide a mount at the bottom for the baseball. My father and mother have since passed but many great memories remain, not the least of which were the times we watched or went to Braves games together. Your portrait brings a Braves baseball family tradition back to the forefront, as both parents were the biggest Braves fans I�ve ever known. Guess I get it honest. Thanks again Lew. It means a lot.

My wife was also impressed yet a bit surprised that I had actually been awarded something so nice for writing, of all things, a sonnet on a baseball blog. After admiring the Wurlitzer art she proclaimed, �Wow, what a beautiful portrait�. She then asked if she could see the poem that warranted such an art prize, so I printed it out and proudly handed it to her. Before she read it she scanned the pages and said, �Wow, this is a long poem�. I couldn�t help but laugh at myself as I told her that I had heard that before. Those that know me can have a little chuckle (or wince) at her fitting brevity observation.

Lew, a big thanks for the portrait is just not enough to express my gratitude. In addition to acknowledging your fine artwork, I wanted to let you know how much you are appreciated by so many here for your involvement since the early days of this BravesBlog, for the tireless and selfless hours you dedicate to this prize we call Wurlitzer and for spending so much of your time creating art without thought of compensation or self-promotion�all donated to the denizens that care about what and how they contribute here.

For you denizens that haven�t yet been to Lew�s website, do yourself a big favor and check it out. The man has great talent. His Braves portraits are superb but you�ll see that he�s an accomplished wildlife artist as well. Lew�s drawing of Johnny Cash can also be seen on his web site. It�s a masterpiece and just happens to be the very first Wurlitzer.

If you can�t get a Wurlitzer, settle for a Pulitzer

Or maybe it was the other way around. While I�m on the Wurlitzer subject and have never seen it posted, thought I�d give a little background on the special award and give kudos to those who started it and managed it. Perhaps the newer denizens can appreciate the provenance of the Wurlitzer as well as the old regulars that have been here a while. By the way, I had to find out this stuff on my own and by digging through the archives and such. Fly, sleuth reporter helped.

As I understand it, the Wurlitzer was first conceived as a special show of appreciation to the BravesBlog host and beat writer, David O�Brien. This was following a national press story of journalists being awarded the Pulitzer Prize, which David had mentioned in an article. Journalist Jimmy Smith sniffed out an opportunity to right a wrong (in his ever witty way) and conceived of the Wurlitzer idea. Jimmy and Lew teamed up and decided that David deserved an award himself, so they plotted and schemed behind the scenes. Since a piano wouldn�t be easy to mail, Lew offered to create a portrait. It wasn�t difficult for them to choose determine the subject.

The original Wurlitzer award was truly a masterwork of none other than our American icon and Man In Black, Johnny Cash. The art was then presented to O�Brien and Voila! This award we call the Wurlitzer was born. Afterwards it was determined that the Wurlitzer would be awarded to BravesBlog denizens for an exemplary post. A committee was formed to survey the blog and vote on winning posts. The rest is history.

The reason I�m posting this is to point out that, because of the thoughtfulness and efforts of Lew, Journalist Jimmy Smith, Carolina Lady, Bob, Journalist and Grinch (the founding members of the Wurlitzer Selection Committee) the quality of blog content, integrity, humor and good spirit has been consistently raised higher than any other sports blog. For that, I want to publicly thank you long-standing, esteemed group of ever-mindful denizens. It was you fine folks that set the bar high for the rest of us. That�s the way I see it.

So you see, the Wurlitzer is not just a Wurlitzer, nor is it just great art. It�s not just a coveted prize or only recognition of a good post�it�s a beacon�directing us and reminding us to take care in how we write and what we post on the BravesBlog. It�s not a competition; it�s a special recognition that anyone can win. Since they are scattered and tucked away in the archives, I wish that previous recipients would soon re-post their Wurlitzer winning post on the blog sometime during this hot-stove season for all to see and appreciate.

Since neither Lew nor Jimmy told me these things or would ever think of their contributions in this way (and certainly wouldn�t post it if they did) I wanted to do the honor and let them know of the gratitude we all feel for their time and efforts. They and the committee deserve credit. I hope I don�t embarrass any of them by doing so. I just think it�s a great story that should be told. If any of you guys want to fill in any more details, clarify or correct any of this, please do.

Thanks to you cornerstone denizens for inspiring and fostering a respectable surrogate ballpark community that sharply contrasts the smut, venting rants and chaos typically found in the sports blogosphere. Your contributions, in concert with David�s unique approach to reporting have set the direction, tone and personality of the BravesBlog from its humble (and sparsely populated) beginnings. Thanks good denizens for your leadership by example, for consistently creating intelligent and witty opines, thoughtful prose and humor.

Thanks for fostering a welcoming atmosphere, personality and wit that has become this BravesBlog. I first came here for Braves news. I stayed and participated because of you and the other good folks here.

Now for a big, fat, hairy point of view

Since it�s been up for going on five full days, I assume this edition of the BravesBlog is due to be retired and a new one written very soon, so I won�t feel guilty about taking up some room. Apologies if it�s an inconvenience to anyone. After a while of being away from the BravesBlog due to business and other pursuits (life away from internet), then I was inclined to stay away because of the negative tone of the place with its unresolved recent unpleasantness. I may not be back as participant (after this I may not be allowed back), but I wanted to give my perspective on a few things.

To those that think this forum is a simple Braves information posting board or a meaningless blog for quick vents, save yourself about five minutes and scroll on. You won�t find this at all interesting or meaningful.

First, I�ll make three assumptions: one, David envisions this blog to become the best, most unique sports blog in the Country and that he may achieve the professional success of his dreams commensurate with the execution of that vision for as long as he is working the Braves beat.

Two, AJC recognizes that the era of paper will continue to diminish and thus provide the necessary support to their internet activities and blogs.

Three, the denizen�s want a respectable, intelligent and eclectic gathering around their Braves team that�s not found in other sports blogs. I believe my assumptions are sound. I could be wrong but I�ll proceed from there anyway.

If my assumptions are close to correct, then I�ll consider this post a favor to David, the AJC and to the denizens that spend (or have spent) so much time enjoying themselves here. Call it advice that was not requested. Like all of you, I have other more important matters to attend to than writing a long point of view on a blog. I do take this blog and all other forms of public communicating seriously. I take many of the denizens here even more seriously. I don�t think life is a joke, nor do I consider business, personal beliefs, relationships or places I recreate a joke either.

To some, a Blog is not just a Blog

Some folks spend a lot more time here than I�m able to. They have a lifestyle that accommodates frequency in visits, so a healthy, entertaining blog means more to them than it does to me. Whether this or any other blog succeeds is not my business, my priority nor is it my mission in life, but since I�ve spent time here getting to know the folks and do appreciate what this could be, I�ve taken some of my valuable time offering this. Maybe you�ll spend some of your valuable time reading it. Or scroll along.

Hey, I figure I�ve saved about three feet of blog space over the last few months, yet I�ll try not to make it all up at once. Take this as a state of the blog letter from a denizen point of view. Consider it professional council, a sincere personal perspective or simply ignore it. Spellcheck it and parse it, redline my redundancies or ridicule it if you must. In the grand scheme of things, it really does not matter. If you do think this forum is important, consider this note as supportive to that.

In my not so humble and unabashed opinion, the key to a successful sports blog is having an eclectic collection of folks of all ages, all walks of life, cultural and educational backgrounds that place their thoughts and words in the anonymous forum. That�s is the magic. Eclectic is key. Everyone is equal and known by what they bring to the table. If one �group� or begins to dominate, the blog won�t succeed regardless of the intentions or intelligence of that one group�not for long anyway.

All along the Watchtower

How many times can we read a fantasy baseball scenario or be interested in wild amateur wild guesses at Braves (or Mets) roster moves before you move on? How many times can we read that Mike Hampton has purposefully absconded Braves payroll? How many posts can we endure that openly wish for players to be injured because they�re on another team? How many ways can you witness the merciless beating of a dead horse issue? How many posts can you take seriously when it is obvious the one who posted it does not take the time to read other posts? How many times can you parse stats until they are a meaningless blur?

Conversely, how many times can you read jokes, philosophical pontifications and chatter that have nothing to do with baseball until you feel that you�re sitting in a lonely hearts club meeting, a poetry class or an insane asylum? How long can you stand cyber-macho locker room banter? How many greetings of, �how are you?� and �hope all is well� and �wish you were here� and �how�s the wife and kids�, before you wonder if you�ve been flattened out, inked and landed in a Hallmark card? How many times can you log on to find that the blog has turned into a boisterous saloon with Wild West or redneck repartee? My answer is, many times. That�s the point. It�s ALL good if it�s ALL there. Variety is the spice of life. I enjoy it.

Even some of those we endearingly refer to as trolls add wit and humor, albeit insulting at times. Their truth or fiction is told from behind whatever curtain they feel necessary. That�s just fine and often hilarious. As long as it�s not repeatedly political, immoral or illegal, it�s OK by me. All of these colors are good, normal and expected with any gathering of different people with widely ranging interests, perspectives, lifestyles and habits. The mix is what makes any gathering successful. The common denominator is Braves baseball. Whether we talk about it, around it or just talk during it�we all love our team. It will never be the Garden of Eden but it can be a peaceable and entertaining kingdom. That�s pretty cool, right?

Subtle reminders, warnings, chin music and admonishments

Seems we ALL forget to �do unto others as we would have them do unto us�. Blogs violate that rule to the extreme at times. After all, it�s the rough and tumble frontier of new media public discourse. Any successful blog needs a few sensible rules and perhaps more importantly, a blogmeister and denizens that have the character, patience, good judgment and sensibility to know whether a rule is being inadvertently broken, repeatedly broken or simply bent a little.

We must have rules. No politics, religion or smut allowed. I like these rules. I don�t come to the blog to attend a church, political rally or to wallow in the gutter. I have my own firm political beliefs, my own church and I�m comfortable and committed to my own set of social, moral and ethical standards. Who cares? Some of my oldest, dearest personal friends have opposite political perspectives. We love each other despite that.

So, when our religious, political or social beliefs and opinions spill into the blog, as they invariably will from time to time, what should be done? We�ve all broken those rules to one degree or another. Common sense and even-handedness are impossible to measure between different people, but it�s all we have. Judging the true agenda of each other is usually difficult, especially when you�re not inclined to �look� for those differences to build some sort of case. Life is too short for that.

Noticing frequency of rule violation and determining an obvious level of vitriol or disruptiveness is much easier. Judgment and response should give benefit of doubt and take denizen history into consideration. Common sense and the Golden Rule should be our best guide to addressing such infractions. When inadvertent or purposeful chastisement in the �public square� is necessary to address a blatant, serious or repeated violation, we all understand and applaud what is meted out. When that admonishment is over the top or inappropriate, an apology is in order. Only the weak, feeble, fearful, easily intimidated and those without much self-worth accept inappropriate or unnecessary public humiliation from anyone.

Here�s another perspective: some folks that have and use one moniker take the same pride in their words on a blog that they do in their lives. Some of us consider our blog moniker as our �brand� and an extension of our own personality. It also stands for what we believe in and how we behave. Most of us that have been around for a while, know who the regular, good-hearted folks are and we respect them even when we don�t always agree with them. That said, when people are chastised inappropriately for minor or one-off infractions, particularly if they are known to be solid, respectable, long-standing and loyal denizens that don�t intentionally or repeatedly offend or break rules, they do take it personally.

We�ve seen that happen right here. It is fixable, though it takes two to perform a reconciliation tango. First, one hand must be offered. The best hand of reconciliation is the strong, righteous one offered first.

Truth, beauty, animal behavior and a three-ring circus

All would agree, without rules and discipline we would have chaos and the blog would be a zoo where the animals were in charge. Conversely, leaders and denizens who appear to be disproportionate, selective or unfair in handing out admonishments or �over-correct� without measured appropriateness chance losing the respect and trust of those we offend.

Those stumbles may stifle or run off many others at the same time. This is magnified when apologies seem to be given freely to some and not others. There are repeat offenders that need stern warnings from the Blogmeister himself. Occasionally, banning is the only resolution for the pitifully vile and obsessed offenders among us.

On recent matters, to be fair, everyone has a bad day or a bad moment, says the wrong thing and makes a mistake. We all do. It�s even easier to do that in an email or on a blog than in person. Our thoughts are clear perhaps but our words betray us at times. On the other hand, idiosyncratic comments and �inside humor� may be confusing, taken the wrong way and offensive. It happens all the time and is magnified more so in a blog venue. Sometimes it�s just best to scroll on by and let it be.

As with any community, we have long-standing, highly respected, well-behaved denizens, valued contributors and elder statesmen. We all expect, accept and usually ignore insults from trolls, but not from the blogmeister and not from other regular denizens. That�s when it can be hurtful. I believe we all know what can result when a denizen misstep, unwise or misinterpreted post coincides with a blogmeister in a bad mood and an overreaction ensues. It�s not pretty and it is completely unnecessary. That�s a shame. Really is.

Just a simple �I�m sorry� goes a long way in this world. A good leader, even if he or she feels justified in their position will find a way to give benefit of doubt and say what needs to be said to rectify a dispute. It�s not always easy but it�s always right. It will almost always be appreciated as well. That is just the simple truth. Always has been, always will be.

Dare I say that it, uh, takes a village?

Is that smarmy? Trust me, it�s definitely not a political endorsement. Whatever. Point is that it�s easier to gather a mob than it is to build a collegial environment. That doesn�t mean we want to be mob or be treated as such. Every single one of us bop each other on the head occasionally when we see denizens get out of line or say something we don�t agree with. We also chastise those that are way out of line in their disrespect of others.

Every creature on earth, every herd, tribe, club, team and family does that. It�s actually good, particularly for some of the younger and immature folks aboard. It�s a classic, natural, necessary training and peacekeeping instinct that wise men and leaders must practice and master if they are to keep order AND retain healthy, successful participants in any group.

Even hardened cynics have to appreciate this

In this little village we�ve got baseball experts, pseudo-experts, neophytes, rabid and casual fans, trolls and everything between. We have black, white, brown, yellow, red, fat, skinny, tall, short, rich, poor, silly, serious, righteous, dubious, corny, inspirational, anxious, laid-back, funny, hilarious, dull, exciting, depressing, diplomatic, antagonistic, realistic, worriers, hand-wringers, optimists, pessimists, venting rantors, homers, Kool-Aid drinkers, brown-nosers, suck-ups, mavericks, individualists, jokesters, one-uppers, speechwriters, philosophers, jesters and preachers.

We�ve seen original, borrowed, stolen, sampled, cut and pasted, lighthearted, angst filled, angry, happy, joyful and sad�all from citizens that range from free-thinking opinion leaders to timid PC followers, just like any community of people.

In our little virtual community we�ve got Braves baseball, Wurlitzer�s, BBQ, music, art, film, television, pop-culture, poetry, toes, social studies, canned hams, cakes, pies and cheese. We�ve got recipes too.

The blog on any given day or night might resemble a Fight Club, Debate Club, Wild West Saloon, Diners Club, Statistician Convention, Philosophy Class, History lesson, Lonely Hearts Club, Beggars Banquet, Pen Pal Central, Trial Court, Pulpit, Algonquin Round table, Comedy Club, Critics Corner, Prayer Group, Den of Iniquity, Country Club, Barn Dance, Fishing Lodge, Audubon Society, Romper Room, Family Picnic, Writers Cafe, Tribal Gathering, Mosh Pit, Brainstorm Session, Rock Concert, Marriage Counseling, Cocktail Party and occasional Mental Ward.

The blog at its best is when all of the above occur.

Then there�s always that pesky bottom line thingy

The BravesBlog has arrived at a crossroad. If the BravesBlog succeeds in any substantial way, it would not be advisable to have the beat writer, fellow blogger and news gatherer to always play the role of keeping everyone in line or micromanage the denizens. David is too good at what he does with baseball writing, blogging, music and film critiques, BBQ reviews and other subjects to be the hall monitor and chief executioner. He shouldn�t wash the cafeteria dishes either. Not a good uses of time or energy. Be creative David. Be the best beat writer you can be. Lighten up a bit on the folks. Save the sword for the serious stuff. And so forth.

Then there�s the business side of it all. Hopefully the AJC and anyone benefiting from the revenue of this venue appreciate the potential they have here and the success they�ve already enjoyed here. They should understand and appreciate O�Brien�s talent and tireless contributions to and management of the BravesBlog.

More importantly, those benefiting monetarily from this Blog should also understand the symbiotic relationships at work between the AJC, beat writer, denizens and advertisers. This �stool� stands on those four legs. Lose one leg and it continues�but won�t be as good, profitable or successful.

Content and frequency of blog visitations matters to advertisers, but over time, it�s the quality of the denizens that make the difference and add the �hits�. The measure of success or failure of any group, business, team or blog community equals the sum of its parts, the vision and compassion of the leadership�and the sustainability of quality participants and content therein.

I would like to see the BravesBlog succeed and become that place I envisioned and saw glimpses of when I first discovered it. It won�t make a make a significant difference in my life or cause a big blip on my radar per se, but it would be nice. Besides, it keeps a lot of you crazy people off the streets, right?

Watering bridges and attacking Windmills

Bridges have been scorched from both banks between this blog that I�ve enjoyed and some of the people that I respect and care for. The damage is perhaps beyond repair. That�s unfortunate but possible and not something that I control. If I could control the situation, I�d want the peace pipe smoked, the hatched buried, the Blogmeister apologize for an unnecessary action then reaction and have all parties search their hearts for forgiveness.

Actually I believe most parties erred to varying degrees. When insulted, feelings were understandably hurt, lines were crossed, lines were drawn and the whole situation got completely blown out of proportion�all because a simple apology was not forthcoming. It�s a shame really. If someone from either riverbank makes a kind gesture perhaps my friends will return. Perhaps not. Either way, regardless of how I view the �incident�, my friendship and loyalty to them is greater than my need to participate on a baseball blog. If they return, I may. If not, I won�t. It�s a matter of principle, friendship and priority. With that comes solidarity.

Once, at a very young age I had a revelation�more like a bad yet instructional dream about the possibility of avoiding a simple misunderstanding or terrible tragedy. In the dream, all I had to do to avoid a calamity was to simply speak up and avoid the imminent misunderstanding or accident. If I just simply said something, just blurt it out�even if doing so was imperfect and risked sounding foolish or sentimental I could possibly change an outcome for the better�but I could not do it.

In this dream I remained silent�my mouth wouldn�t work. It was frozen shut. In the dream I perhaps I was too unsure, confused, proud or afraid to speak. Not sure. If only I could have said one simple word I could have changed the course of things. But I didn�t.

That dream became my lesson. Speaking up became my habit. It�s been difficult at times and occasionally seemed foolish but it�s kept me out of trouble and kept me in some very good company. Speaking the truth became my mantra. Just speaking up. That�s all. Fools will call you a fool but risking the appearance of foolishness to them for a worthy cause or a moment of truth can be quite uplifting.

It�s a wonderful life

With that sentiment, I hope for each and every one of you that you, your families and your loved ones be blessed with a very safe, healthy and successful holiday season, a very merry Christmas and all the same again for the happiest New Year ever, wherever you live and wherever you gather. That includes our Braves of course.

Go Braves. Let�s rock in �08.

By robdawg06

November 30, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Thorman may be a good insurance policy at 1B if Tex leaves next year.

By Anders

November 30, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Keep in mind that just because the Red Sox are making these offers for Santana that doesn’t mean they absolutely want him at any price. They could be trying to drive the Yanks cost up in players. Keep in mind, even if the Twins accept the Red Sox offer including Crisp -the Red Sox could kill the deal by lowballing Santana on a contract. Then the Yankees will have great leverage. Are they willing to sit tight on their offer to find out if the Sox are for real? That’s why these 72 hour negotiation window deals are so tricky for the team trading the big player. This is a huge game of chicky between the Yanks and Red Sox. I still think the Twins will get the best offer they can from the Sox and then go to the Yanks and demand either Chamberlain or Cano must be in the deal. If the yanks balk - the twins take the Red Sox deal. If the Sox and Santana can’t make a deal the Twins will have the Cabrera/Kennedy deal from the Yanks to fall back on.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 30, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Thorman plays 1B , Teixeira plays 1B. Name the other first baseman on the 40 man roster who will be backing up Teixeira after Thorman is traded.

By i cant take it anymore

November 30, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

yeah david. little huffy wright is much more suited as the man of the year. i think wren should see if he is available at the winter meetings. we would be the WS favorites if we pick him up.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

doc, real good point. josh smith may be more like andruw than like frenchy. for some reason, i did not think of it that way. i guess my comparison was based more on my own perception that druw was the complete baseball package, albeit raw, when he first came up. after the 2000 season, he seemed to decide to give up being the complete package and decided to fall in love with dingers. frenchy & smoove, on the other hand, to me, are more incomplete packages offensively with the ability to become complete packages, if you get what I am saying.

i dunno. stupid to compare baseball players and basketball players but it is fun to do.

doc, what you think about acie law? you think he can be the point guard the hawks need? i love the guy and think he can break down any defender and get to the key and hoop with ease (maybe too easily) but i am still not sold on acie as the point.

By Steamboat

November 30, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Coach, I think Brayan Pena has been working at 1B (as well as some OF and 3B). In many respects, he’s a better alternative as a backup to Tex - a switch hitter, hits for pretty good average, can play several positions (including 3rd catcher) so he can get more at bats than a dedicated 1B like Thorman.

I’m not down on Thorman - he’s shown the ability to adjust and perform at each level. But it’s just hard to see how he’s gonna develop with Tex probably playing 155 games, so maybe it’s best to trade him.

By doc

November 30, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

acie will be fine if woody doesnt get in his way. may have to come back to this point but after we see a little more of acie. just dont know if he is of the ilk of deron or cp. he may be still too much the two mentality.

By gibby

November 30, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

In the Buster Olney blog on ESPN, he has a quick 6 question email back & forth w/ Ron Mahay re: Being a free agent & the offseason. Looks like the Braves aren’t even a player in his mind, as he kept mentioning the Rangers and loyalty, etc…too bad. It was good while it lasted.

[http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster]

Funniest news in his blog was this: The Rockies have offered a non-guaranteed contract to Mark Redman, who pitched effectively for Colorado at season’s end.

Yeah, good luck with that:)

By Dap

November 30, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

This blog is tired and worn out.

Please give us something new.

By dbrave

November 30, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Now that the news that Haren is “available”, do you see any chance the braves have interest? I’m not sure how it would quite work out, but with his contract and the prospects the braves have accumulated it seems like it would be worth the conversation.

By 22oz

November 30, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

B. Pena did play first last year at Richmond, as well as 3rd, left field, and catcher. He would be a great asset off the bench, and a switch hitter. I see no downside to having him on the roster next year. He originally made it last year as a backup catcher, until Salty came up. I don’t see why he wouldn’t get a shot to be on the roster this year.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Okay, I have to say I really think the Braves are making a mistake if they don’t go after another starter. Quantity doesn’t equal quality and that is what the Braves have. After the “big 3” the rotation will either be very young or very shaky. Not to mention two of the “big 3” are over 40, which makes them prone to injury. Its just a fact.

I believe that either money should be spent on Carlos Silva or maybe even better a trade for Joe Blanton. Dan Haren would be even better but the Braves just don’t have the package to get him. Well, they do but shouldn’t do it because it would totally gut the system.

Here is my offer for Blanton. Braves send James, B. Jones or Diaz, and either Prado or J.C. Holt. Perhaps throw in Dan Smith as a fourth player or preferred as a sub for Prado. B. Pena could also be used a piece. Here could be the Braves starting point offer: B. Jones, Diaz, and Dan Smith. If the Billy Beane balks maybe add Prado to the mix. If he gets real sheepish sub B. Jones for Diaz.

Is that enough? I don’t know. It would depend on who else is after Blanton. However, such a package could be good enough to get a Lowry from the Giants or perhaps Snell from the Pirates?

Other options could be (for a lesser package of course): Kai Igawa from the Yanks or Anthony Reyes from the Cards.

I’m just afraid that if Smoltz or Glavne go down then the Braves are more or less in the same spot as they were before. Heaven forbid both of them go down, which is entirely possible. And it goes without saying the inability to rely on Hampton factors into this. Lets say Hampton doesn’t go what rotation would you guys feel better about: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Blanton or Silva, and James or Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James, and Jurries or Jo Jo Reyes. Now, imagine if Smoltz or Glavine miss any time?

By knowitall

November 30, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Braveheart it’s been a while since I read the story but it seems like I remember something about the Hawks being restricted to signing players to 2 year contracts. Maybe this doesn’t apply to their current players, can’t remember. But if they are restricted, it may explain why they haven’t signed Josh. Something about whomever wins the ownership battle not being stuck with a bunch of long term contracts that they don’t approve of.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 30, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Steamboat , Brayan Pena has hit 17 HR’s in his entire professional career. That’s over the course of seven seasons and 2000 at bats. He has also hit .298 during the same time period.

Pena has exactly 23 games of experience at 1B playing in Richmond , none at the big league level and he is out of options.

Brayan has caught 466 games behind the plate in the minors. Curiously enough , he also has 116 games at SS.

I’m betting that Thorman is going nowhere fast.

By Renegator

November 30, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Bobby has players that he likes and players that he doesn’t. The players that he likes - play - no matter how poorly. The players that he doesn’t like - sit on the bench until they get traded.

Pena is obviously one that Bobby doesn’t like. Now matter how well he plays or much he produces - he just can’t earn a spot on the roster. That is Bobby’s way.

By Anders

November 30, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

DOB In regards to your 10:28PM post last night, word up here in NYC is that the first choice for GQ’s Man Of The Year was actually Tom Glavine but he declined, saying ” I don’t feel I’m man of the year material anymore and I don’t want the pressure of living up to that title”. With that, he returned to Alpharetta Ga. where he received the Scout Leader of The Year award from Troop 19.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Coach We might be proven wrong, but I am with you on Thorman. I have my doubts about our ability to sign Teixeira next winter, and I still think Thorman could have a decent major league career.

Pena is a goner. Will be used to get a utility infielder, lefty specialist for the bullpen or part of a package to get a centerfielder.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 30, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Robert(JIB) , the Braves have ten pitchers with major league experience as a starter. There are only 40 spots available on the roster.

Whether you agree or not , this is as good as it gets. Wren And Cox have said it repeatedly , they are not going to add any pitching.

The Braves have done everything possible to make sure they have both depth and experience in the rotation.

I happen to both know and believe that the pitching (starting and bullpen) will be the strength of this team in 2008.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 30, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Savannah Guy Well said…

By Lew

November 30, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Efrim-No, Shaun uses stats as a reason to get up in the morning and exist. I use them to prove a point when necessary (using only basic stats, at that), which I damn well did-you’re just too pig headed to realize you don’t know your @$$ from a hole in the ground. Your assertions are totally intuitive and you have nothing whatsoever to base them on. In this case, the numbers just don’t lie and they certainly don’t back you up. If the AL was that much more a hitter’s league, then their pitching stats would be way down when compared to the NL and their hitting stats would be much greater. The facts prove that they are so close as to be equal. For two years of this decade, the NL has even led the AL in HR averaged per team. FACTS, Efrim, not conjecture. The fact that you refuse to see the light in front of your own face does not negate these facts, they just prove you to be clueless.

Just what do you base your assertion on? Since it isn’t the ML records over the past eight seasons, is it perhaps the fact that Hudson, Mulder and Zito, all coming from the A’s and the AL exceeded their AL numbers? UH, Dude, can’t be. They DID NOT improve. Sight me something besides your own unsubstantiated suppositions (certainly not backed up by anything BUT your own ego) and maybe I will agree with you.

Is Haren a good pitcher? Hell yes. Would he succeed in the NL-hell yes. Will he improve his ERA by half a run per game? How do you, I, or anyone else know? I’ll tell you-you don’t know and neither do I. Give me a better reason than you think so.

Facing the DH in the AL has led to a league wide batting average only .07 higher than the NL. It has led to each AL team getting one more hit per team every three games and one extra HR per team every nine games. The OBP in both leagues is virtually identical. They have several more dominant teams that spend inordinate amounts of money, that skew the view. If the AL is such a much better hitting team, does that mean the NL makes more errors and walks enough batters to compensate? The numbers don’t lie-they are damn well equal. THAT is it. That’s all there is to it. THAT is fact. Your assertions are just that-ASSertions, with nothing behind them but your own sometimes absurd proclamations. Stop while you’re ahead and withdraw your size 11 from your mouth. YOu’ll choke if you’re not careful. You’d do better to make fewer statements and do more research. You’d look less like a fool if you do.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

knowitall. that ownership situation is a mess. guess i should stop crying about the braves owners when you consider how bad the spirit group is. there was a court ruling in september though that freed the hawks up to sign contracts

i know the ownership group thing is so sketchy that they may not be able to practically sign contracts of the length they need to give josh but i think they legally can now unless there has been a subsequent court ruling.

By Renegator

November 30, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Damn Anders - you are bitter!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Anders, that’s not right. Funny. But not right.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 30, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

The other thing to consider is , the Braves could go outside the box.

If Hampton continues to have hamstring problems in spring training , the Braves might move him to the bullpen.

That would solve the left handed issue in the bullpen assuming that the Braves would still have the need for a lefty in the pen.

However , unless that situation pops up , Hampton is slated for the rotation all the way.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Coach, I know what Wren has said. I’m just saying I would feel better with another solid starter. Yes, the team has guys who have started but…..Do you really want Carlyle or Cormier in the rotation? Do you feel that comfortable with the possibility James could have to be a #3 again? Do you feel comfortable with the possibility of James and Jurries and/or Reyes as the #4 and #5. Or James as a #3 with Jurries and Reyes #4 and #5?

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Lew

Is Haren a good pitcher? Hell yes. Would he succeed in the NL-hell yes. Will he improve his ERA by half a run per game? How do you, I, or anyone else know?

You said Haren would add three or four wins for the Mets, as suppose to Glavine. That would of gotten them into the playoffs. That was what my point was. It still is my point,. I believe Haren would be a better pitcher in the NL than the AL. Better as instead of going 15-9 with a 3.07 ERA and 196 K’s, he would go 20-6 with a 2.75 ERA and 220 K’s. That much a difference? I think so. It is the difference between a CY Young winner and canidate.

The rant you spent a ton of time to write is the reason I stay away from you man. You have serious issues and I really find you unpleasant to speak to on this blog. You get way too intense about issues like this. I could care less about all the time you took to put up the differences in the AL and NL. Dan Haren would be a better pitcher in the National League, facing lineups that are not as powerful. Would a pitcher like Roy Halladay or Erik Bedard put up better statistics if he didn’t have to face the Red Sox and Yankees 8 times a year? Yes. No stats, just think about it.

I’m sure you’ll call me a troll and insult me, but it isn’t needed. I could care less about your insults. That is all you ever do to people on this blog who disagree with you anyways. Again, the reason I don’t like talking about anything baseball related with you.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

Lew

Since it isn�t the ML records over the past eight seasons, is it perhaps the fact that Hudson, Mulder and Zito, all coming from the A�s and the AL exceeded their AL numbers?

That is b****** and you know it. All three of those pitchers were leaving the best years of their careers. They were all much more hittable toward their last few years in the AL. No stats on that one. I just know that is the case. Off the top of my head, I believe Hudson had a 3.52? ERA his last season before coming to Atlanta. Don’t get me started on Zito. Everyone knew the guy would bomb regardless of where he landed. His velocity was down walks were up.

By robdawg06

November 30, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Dang Savannah Guy, write a book won’t cha ? Your blog is longer than DOB’s initial blog !

If the Braves are traders at the meetings tomorrow the media doesn’t know about it. I want Rowand and Haren. Who cares if you trade some of these young OF’s and pitchers at AAA and AA ? The time to win is now since you’ve got Smoltz,Glavine,and Chipper on their last legs. Plus a solid core of Tex,Hudson,McCann,Francoeur,and Escobar. And we won’t exactly be mortgaging our future since we have great scouts and a lot of talent in the minors. It would still have to be a fair trade (not 5 or 6 top prospects for 1). It can be done though. Prado and Lillibredge have no positions and are viable.

By Renegator

November 30, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Efrim & Lew:

Can’t we all just get along?

By TennesseePaul

November 30, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Okay, I have to say I really think the Braves are making a mistake if they don�t go after another starter. Quantity doesn�t equal quality

Robert (JIB): I just checked the calendar, it’s November 30th. Is this a good enough time to start talking about this? I was bringing this up a little while ago and told it was too early. Of course, nothing has changed in that time but the calendar.

Here’s something I do know, our rotation went from an average age of 29 to an average age of 37 this month. After months of talking about picking up an innings eater to help the pen, as soon as he was signed, there was talk about limiting his innings and going to a 6 man rotation.
Andruw Jones was let go after a dismal season. He had an 88 OPS+. The talk of replacement was for Coco Crisp who had an 83 OPS+. He managed to be even less productive than AJ. Edgar and Villarreal were traded for minor leaguers to free up budget space on a team with no budget ceiling and the left handed pitcher for the pen is still too expensive to sign.

Whatever, to put it simply, I�m just not impressed so far. The team could win the division, at least it should compete strong for it, but I don’t think they’ll take the World Title. I guess I could creep-out and start cold calling the Braves front office demanding they justify their moves to me personally. No. I’m too old to stoop that low.

By robdawg06

November 30, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Efrim, do you take Lew to be your lawful wedded blogging partner till…

I realize all it takes is signing $$$ Rowand sice he’s a free agent before some of you dictate that to me.

By Billy Walsh

November 30, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

I have a feeling that the sox will get Haren and the yanks will get Santana. The braves need another starter. There is no way that you can count on Hampton. Having Buddy or Lance at the back end of the rotation isnt comforting either. But who can be had? The rockies are pursuing Redman and Trachsel. That tells you all you need to know. I dont think the braves have enough in their system to trade for Haren. Maybe Blanton, but not Haren. I cant see the A’s moving both. If the Royals sign Andruw, then Dejesus would be available. We could always start Carl Crawford rumors again. Is it me or is it impossible to make a trade with the D-Rays.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Efrim, you are totally right. Haren’s numbers would be just as good, if not better, in the NL. The fact is the NL has a few powerful offenses (Braves, Mets, Phillies, Rockies, Cubs?) whereas in the AL a lathargic offense is the exception to the rule (White Sox, A’s).

By Braves20

November 30, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

God help us if we don’t either sign or peddle Tex for something close to equal value. Thorman will never be anything but a strikeout machine - and there is little on the farm to replace Tex. Makes you wonder about the Pittsburgh and Texas trades doesn’t it?

By wjones

November 30, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Some of you are probably right in that it won’t happen, but I sure would like to see Brayan Pena on the bench. He is the same type of hitter as Pendleton-they are even built similarly-and a switch hitter to boot. If the future is a 5-man bench, then we better have some multi-position guys on that bench, and Pena would open us up to so many possibilities. I couldn’t care less that he hasn’t played first that much-how many games had Kelly Johnson played at second before this past year? If Teixiera plays his usual 150-160 games, it would be a waste to have Thorman on the bench.

By Lew

November 30, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Efrim-And Haren isn’t leaving the best year of his career? Dude-Please answer my question-What do you base your assertion on that he will improve that much in ERA? You have yet to tell me a real reason you think this is so. I’ve sighted very good reasons why I don’t think that much of an improvement is in store for him-there is just no huge difference between the leagues. The numbers for at least the past eight years say so. This is not something I’ve made up. Go check for yourself and then get back to me with a bona fide reason to back up your conjecture-call the shot on the eight ball, Dude. Back it up if you can.

No, I won’t call you a Troll-just clueless in many instances, such as this and the fact you think you know exactly where pitchers will end up in a rotation in MLB when they are in low A Ball. The point is you CAN’T know. No one can for sure.

You think that telling me I have issues makes me therapy worthy? Get real. I couldn’t care less what you think of me. I don’t think a whole lot about what you have to say in general. However, when you come on a public forum and disagree with me personally, then you should damn well expect I will have something to say about it. At least I gave you enough respect to actually go and spend the better part of an hour researching the facts and writing two epic posts to you (and if they had not proved my point I never would have responded like I did- I would have told you the facts backed your assertion).At least respect me enough to verify what you base your theory on. Can you at least do that?

AS far as Haren with the Mets. Last year is over and he was NOT with them. If he does join them this year, yes he will be a good addition. He should win at least 16 games, which is about his high point so far, and would be a three game improvement over Glavine’s numbers last year, which is what he would replace. However, in order to get him, they would have to give up another pitcher to do it, as well as their best right field option and then have to replace them. Then they need to get the back up for all their old injured pitchers, who are likely to miss time. Even with Haren there and Glavine gone, their pitching is still substandard and not durable, so that three game bump would not offset their other needs. THAT is MY point. It has nothing to do with how good Haren is (which I agree with you on), but indicates how great their other needs are. That’s all. Apples and oranges. If you hadn’t been so contentious, then you would have seen what I was saying.

By Saltywoody

November 30, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

EFRIM Very quickly- if those three guys (Hudson, Mulder, and Zito) were coming from the best years of their careers, what would you say Haren is doing?

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

SaltyWoody

How old is Dan Haren? He turned 27 in December. Less mileage on his arm.

By Anders

November 30, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Lew What Efrim said. Over and over and over.

By Random

November 30, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy—

Thanks for the history — well done.

Your post strikes me initially as a cross between a eulogy and a post mortem — I hope not; I hope I’m just being autumnally morbid.

Was it really a sonnet, or a ballad (or ode)? Sonnets, of course, are 14 lines, which really isn’t that long. If you don’t mind, I’d like to see it — how ‘bout an encore? (Or just the blog cite, maybe.)

Anyway, thanks again.

By Lew

November 30, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy-Thank you. How can you tell I’m blushing in cyberspace? Apparently Efrim does not share your rosy view of Your’s Truly.

Lot’s of good portraits being readied for Spring Training in February. Lots of goodies for next year’s prizes. I’ve alread done a Chipper and a Francoeur drawing and am working on Smoltz right now. There will be still many more to come before I’m done. Keep posting those Wurlitzer Worthy posts, y’all. Most of the time you do a real fine job. Just remember, the Wurlitzer wouldn’t mean a damn thing if you didn’t post great things worthy of it’s awards. The Prize needs all of us-not just me.

By raindawg722

November 30, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, I agree with you on the Selmanaires. I went to one of their shows over a year ago now at the old Lenny’s where they gave almost half the people in the audience tambourines to play for a certain song (can’t remember which one). It was PDC (Pretty Darn Cool).

By TNRON

November 30, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

TNPAUL,As you stated it is only Nov.30.The team you end with is seldom the team you start with.Sure I would like Dan Haren,who wouldnt.But you do not gut your farm system in November.There is a lot of time between now and opening day.Yes the average age of the starters is higher than I would like but that doesnt mean that will continue in ‘09.From what I read we have some real prospects in the lower minors.Those are the kids Oakland and like teams would require in a trade for established pitching.And I am not completely sure Blanton is better than what we have,just better recognized dut to the internet exposure on trade rumors websites.It would seem to me the biggest concern would be a LH reliever.And just because the Braves dont bend over and overpay for Mahay doesnt mean they dont want to win.It just means they want to spend money wisely.But these things will work themselves out and all told we MUST be in better shape than the Mets are since we havent heard from MetsRule a.k.a “the Drooler”

By Steamboat

November 30, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Apparently, the Mets have traded Milledge to the Nats for Schneider and Ryan Church - per mlbtraderumors.com.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Lew

First, you misunderstood me with Hudson, Zito and Mulder leaving the best years of their careers. They weren’t the best seasons of their careers. Thats the point. They weren’t 27 either. Their last two years with the A’s were an indication that they were in for rougher times regardless of where they went. But anyways…

*I don�t think a whole lot about what you have to say in general. *

My thoughts on you as well, so lets shut the f*** up and move on.

By Saltywoody

November 30, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Efrim Fair enough. Haren is, for sure, one of my favorite pitchers in the game right now. I think he’s only entering his prime. And I would love to see the Braves make a run at him, and hate to see the Mets get him (because he’d instantly solidify their rotation).

But to argue that he’d make such a drastic improvement in his numbers from where he was last year is difficult. The guy had a career year last year. He was unhittable in the beginning of the year, but faded towards the end. My guess is that this had something to do with conditioning, since he had never been forced to be the workhorse he was for the team in 2007. But, also, I’d imagine it had to do with some guys figuring him out a little bit.

I think the same thing would happen in the NL. He’d be filthy for the first few months and then guys would start to adjust, and his numbers would even out.

After all, it wasn’t as if Tim Hudson was 38 when he came to the Braves…and his numbers certainly didn’t improve moving to the NL.

I think the AL/NL dichotomy is overrated, myself.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Lew

This will make you happy…..

Rotoworld.com

SNY is reporting that the Mets have acquired Brian Schneider and Ryan Church from the Nationals for Lastings Milledge.

We wrote four days ago that the Mets shouldn’t part with Milledge for Schneider. Church, though, helps even it up. The one concern for the Nats is that a lot of teams are down on Milledge as a center fielder. If they decide he can’t handle the position, they’d probably use him in left and bench Wily Mo Pena. Austin Kearns in center, with Milledge in right, should be an option, but manager Manny Acta wasn’t willing to go there last season. Schneider to the Mets means that Johnny Estrada will be non-tendered after all. The Nats will probably bring in Paul Lo Duca or Michael Barrett until Jesus Flores is ready.

If that is true, then the Mets are idiots. Schneider is terrible and they will not be able to acquire a big starter any longer.

Anders, thoughts on this trade?

By rich brave

November 30, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

LEW:

I agree. Statistics are essential to understanding various situations that are brought up here. In fact, I have one to go over with Gil in the next blog. But at the same time, I don’t feel observation and intuition should be discounted. As I plan to post here for some time (God willing) I’d like to see other opinions expressed besides statistical ones even if they are pig-headed. In fact, pigs are pretty intelligent. As I stated in an earlier post, you miss a lot when you adher to just one method of evaluation. Just my perspective, pig-headed or not.

I learned a lot from Savannah Guy’s post on the Wurlitzer and other sundries. Are you an artist? So am I. As an artist what do you think ‘08 will bring.

By Saltywoody

November 30, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

If that Mets trade is true, I don’t know what they’re thinking. If you’re Minaya, don’t you HAVE TO trade Milledge for pitching…if you’re going to trade him at all?

By Vol

November 30, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Pretty surprising that the Mets unload Milledge when his trade value seems to have bottomed out. Surely he has a lot more upside than what they got back in return.

Now they have that much less of a chance to aquire a top starter.

By Vol

November 30, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Pretty surprising that the Mets unload Milledge when his trade value seems to have bottomed out. Surely he has a lot more upside than what they got back in return.

Now they have that much less of a chance to acquire a top starter.

By Anders

November 30, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

LEW From your 1:03 post. AS far as Haren with the Mets. Last year is over and he was NOT with them. I’d like to offer a Friday afternoon matinee in response to this. It’s called “A Few Good Bloggers” Anders: Now wait a minute Lew -You’re brow beating Efrim for surmising how the Mets would have done with Haren last year? Weren’t you the one who spent a whole month explaining to me how the Braves would have won the division if they had Glavine last year? Lew: I’m not sure where you’re going with this?. Anders: And I posted this equates to your brow beating of me about rooting for a team - you argued that it has no implications on the actual outcome for the team? Lew: Well that’s not exactly what I posted. Anders: You posted rooting can’t affect the outcome. I posted are you clear on this and you posted crystal. But now you can surmise how a team would have finished by just adding a player to that team in your mind? Lew: That’s not what I meant and you know it! Anders: If you’d like I can have DOB read the posts back to you? Lew: I don’t need the damn posts read back to me - I KNOW WHAT I POSTED! Anders: Did you post that rooting has no effect on the outcome of the game and surmizing how the Braves would have finished last year with Glavine is equivalent to this and now you’re turning this same argument around on Efrim? Lew: YOUR DAMN RIGHT I DID AND I’D POST IT AGAIN IF IT WILL HELP MY ARGUMENT AND CRUSH OTHERS IN THE PROCESS!!! Anders: DOB - Please have Lew stop posting - The blogger has rights. DOB: Wurlitzer Committe, please take Lew’s keyboard away and escort him to blogging sensitivity training. Lew: YOUR FINISHED ANDERS! YOU’VE SCREWED WITH THE WRONG BLOGGER. I’M GONNA GOUGE YOUR EYES OUT AND POUR SYRUP IN YOUR DEAD SKULL (Snide Vermont reference to offset NY bashing to come).

Roll Credits Lew played by Jack Nicholson, Anders played by Tom Cruise of course, I’ll let other bloggers decide who plays DOB or DOB can choose for himself. The Friday metinee is now over please exit to the front of the theatre.

By Greg in TN

November 30, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Afternoon folks…

The Twins have a trade under their belts in the 2007 hot stove season although it wasn’t the big fish in the Metrodome pond getting swapped. Santana is still a Twin, although probably not for too long. One less headache in Tampa with Delmon Young heading north to Minneapolis.

To be fair, Young hasn’t made the kind of waves that he made in Durham with the bat incident, so he may have turned the page and is showing maturity. Along with Young, the Twins get SS Brendan Harris and OF Jason Pridie and going to Tampa are pitcher Matt Garza, SS Jason Bartlett and minor league pitcher Eduardo Morlan.

I saw Pridie in Durham in June. Looked for my scorecard from the game to no avail, but the name did catch my eye and I believe the guy had a pretty good stick from what I remember.

I think Braveheart may have something on his 2:46 post in the overnight hours on Mahay. If he’s holding out for a 3 or 4-year contract, that’s going to be a big issue with the team and I don’t see how it would be wise to sign what will be ultimately a set-up guy that kind of money for four years. It would be different story if he were a closer, but he’s not a closer.

Lots of action today from the looks of things. Troy Percival has signed with Tampa for 2-years/$8 mil, the now Bora$less Kenny Rogers has agreed to terms on a 1-year deal with financial information not being disclosed according to mlb.com, Kaz Matsui is changing addresses to Houston to the tune of a 3-year/$15 mil contract to replace Craig Biggio. I’m a bit surprised at that move because I felt the ‘Stros would give Chris Burke a shot at 2B. Neither had a particularly good year at the plate in ‘07 and now Matsui is there making $5 mil per.

And now it seems Milledge is going to Washington for Ryan Church and Brian Schneider. Does this mean the Johnny Estrada era at Flushing lasts less than a month?

By TennesseePaul

November 30, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

TNRON: Quite the knee jerk there, a lot of that post was in jest. Several things I’d like to point out though.
There is a lot of time between now and opening day
I never disagreed with this. Just asked when we could start discussing the moves so far. Apparently we can’t until opening day? That sets up for a long, quiet, winter.

Yes the average age of the starters is higher than I would like but that doesnt mean that will continue in �09
This has been part of the point I’ve been trying to make. Come 2009 a lot of turnover hits the team. A move this season could secure a younger rotation with less turnover in the future. However, Wren has stated he isn’t seeking any more starters, so what you see now is apparently what you get.

we have some real prospects in the lower minors
Seen ‘em. And they look good. And we’d probably have to trade a guy from that group to get a Major League ready young pitcher under contract for several more years. Basically we’d be leveraging the talent that is still several years away from the big team for a guy who can immediately and continually help the big team. But this goes back to disappointment of earlier trades. I think some of the talent we’ve shipped out could have helped acquire one of these good young MLB ready pitchers while not having to give up all our beloved Rookie Ball and A ball players. However, Wren has stated he is done acquiring starting pitching. So what you see is what you get.

just because the Braves dont bend over and overpay for Mahay doesnt mean they dont want to win
Who said anything about no desire to win? I’ve contended that this team should compete for the division. I just don’t think it’s strong enough to win the World Series. Mahay was pretty solid last year. He has good numbers and can get guys out on both sides of the plate. I don’t know what he wants, but rumors have it pegged at 3 million. For a team with no financial ceiling, this is said to be too expensive. It should be interesting to see how the Teixeira contract works out.

we MUST be in better shape than the Mets are
Good call. Mets were second in the division and 3rd in the wild card. It’s a goal I suppose, but again, it’s only November. The Mets could end up in 4th next season. With this goal all that need be done is end the season in 3rd like the last two seasons. I’ll hope for a stronger run at the division than that. But I’d love to be set up to win it all this coming season and the next one. The dynasty thing sounds really cool. Perhaps I’m just too greedy.

By TNRON

November 30, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

I thought Lastings Milledge was the centerpiece in a big pitching trade senario.Oh where are you Drooler?

By Lew

November 30, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Rich Brave-That’s exactly what I’ve been telling Shaun, The Stat Master for two years-stats are fine, but you can’t do quantitative analysis on intangibles, which he does not take into account. That is why I actually went and did the research-I took into account Efrim’s intuition on the subject. The numbers didn’t back up his intuition, is all. I agree on intuition and intangibles being an integral part of baseball, but sometimes, pure numbers (not this ridiculous VORP and whatnot), do tell the story. In the case of disparity between the AL and NL, the numbers preclude any doubt-there is not the disparity most think there is.

As an artist, I hope 08 brings many meaningful and lucrative commissions for my art. For the Braves, I would hope for a playoff berth, though if the Red Sox get Santana, I will pencil them in for yet another World Championship-as I did this year.

Yes, I am an artist-check out LewHartman.com

Anders-Who cares? You know damn well I don’t. I’ve told you what I think about you and your crap numerous times. Just because I’ve ignored you lately doesn’t change my thoughts on the subject. It’s totally amazing how I’m constantly attacked and reviled by three or four idiots, yet carry on correspondence and decent relevant conversations with 30 or so other denizens-those who actually think and use their brains, as opposed to operating on hot air and ego.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Anders

A Few Good Men is a great movie. One of my favorites.

By Anders

November 30, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Efrim I like getting Schneider. The guy is professional receiver. I’m a believer in those types of guys for the postseason. Charlie O’brien, Charles johnson, Joe Girardi, Damian Miller, Varitek etc.. Catcher first - hit second. Ryan Church will give the Mets more than Green did last year. I can live with 70 to 80 RBI and .270 in right. As I said yesterday I really wanted to see Milledge play a whole year in right because I don’t think he’s as bad as many on here do. But Omar had to get a catcher for this team. The Estrada deal was a smoke screen to unload Mota and his contract. The Mets are now set at all field positions going into the season and they’ll focus on pitching. If there’s none to be had, so be it. We go to war with what we have and I for one don’t think it’s as bad as most of you do. I still say a dogfight for the Mets, Phils and Braves most of the year.

By Lew

November 30, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Anders-No, I mentioned ONE time that the added victories from Glavine would have made a difference. The point (as usual, if you had ACTUALLY READ the whole thing, which you never do) was THIS year Haren would indeed add a couple of victories (yes, which HAD he been there last year WOULD have made the difference), but his acquisition would not have covered all of the Mets holes. That’s the point I was making-that and nothing else.

The Mets already have to replace Glavine (no matter what you think of him) and his 13 wins. They also need at the very least, one more starter and another for mop up when El Duque and Pedro go down (they will). My point was that Haren would replace Glavine, but you would still need, even with his three or so victories over Glavine’s wins last year, at the very least, another starter. If you then had traded Pelfrey, Humber, Maine or whoever for him (and Milledge, too) then Haren’s addition would still lead to three or four more pieces needing to be filled in a weak market. All true, even if you fail to see the point.

And BTW-Just WTF was that last fabricated conversation between us? I sure as hell never posted anything like it and it makes no sense (though that hardly surprises me). Take rooting into account? DOB-take his keyboard away? Whatever. You’re not creative enough to pull that one off. Just give up.

By Lew

November 30, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

Anyone interested in seeing the Hank Aaron Wurlitzer, email me at lewhartman@comcast.net I’ll send an attachment-it’s not up on the website, yet.

By dcarp23

November 30, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

I wonder if Church being dealt to New York was done in anticipation of an Andruw signing in D.C.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Apparently Efrim does not share your rosy view of Your�s Truly.

How could I when terms like idiot and troll are being thrown my way. Even thrown other bloggers ways. No one else insults others like you do. So how am I suppose to have a rosy view of Lew Hartman?

By knowitall

November 30, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Braveheart thanks for the link. I missed that story. I guess at some point I blocked out all news related to Hawks ownership. Only in Atlanta could something this messy happen. But hey, at least the Knicks are going all out to take away the award for worst franchise.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Anders

I still say a dogfight for the Mets, Phils and Braves most of the year.

Agreed. Never thought any different. I just think Milledge should of been included in a deal for a pitcher. But Schneider has had two straight seasons where he failed to have a 700 OPS. Bad offesive player. You are right about his defense and receiving abilities. He is one of the best in that respect.

By AdirondackDave

November 30, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Wow, I guess the real meaning of the Milledge deal is that even the Mets considered him more of a liability than an asset. They were just a little slower than everybody else to realize this. It’s been a year+ since Milledge was a real chip to pull in a decent pitcher. Regardless of what they say, they’re going to have to give up Reyes now to get that ace but they can’t go into a new stadium Reyes-less. Minaya is truly between a rock and a hard place.

By TNRON

November 30, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Sorry TPaul I was multi-tasking and read your blog quickly and misunderstood some of your points.As for the latter part all I was doing was trying to call out the Drooling One as I have not seen him on here lately.But all in all I like what Frank has done and think other things will follow in due time.BTW I really enjoy Lew,Robert(JIB)and your posts.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Is Omar Minaya really a genius? I don’t think so. This trade makes no sense. No way is Church better than Milledge. No way! What was the point of acquiring Schneider when they already have Estrada and Castro? Seems to me that Jim Bowden pulled one over on the Mets here. I understand Milledge has some maturity issues but the guy can play and surely could have netted more. Not a good trade. Especially when its starting pitching they need. Trade just makes no sense.

It does make me wonder if the Braves attempted to go after Church. But, then again, Bowden would have asked for B. Jones or Gorkys Hernandez and neither one of them are worth giving up for the likes of Church.

I know people hate hearing the name of Carl Crawford but I think he could be ripe for the picking. The Rays couldn’t be much worse without him right. I think a package of B. Jones, Prado, and James may do the trick. The Rays could move Upton back to CF in that case. Crawford could play CF this year and move back to left in ‘09. He would also serve as some protection in case Tex doesn’t resign which I think we all agree it is very unlikely that he does.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave, excellent point. The Mets are backed into a corner. While Silva would be a nice addition to their rotation, they need an ace. Pedro can’t be counted on. Like Hampton he is prone to get hurt by merely watching tv. Maine isn’t ace status yet. And El Duque? El please! In order for the Mets to get a quality pitcher they will have to give up Reyes or Wright. Teams know they are hard up now. That is why the Milledge trade makes no sense. They do have Carlos Gomez but if they get rid of him they would be depleting their outfield depth. The A’s, Twins, Giants, and Orioles all have aces or potential aces they would be wiling to trade. However, all of these teams will demand Reyes be part of any trade. Losing Reyes for the Mets would be the equivalent of the Braves losing Chipper. He is the heart and soul of that team. In fact, I would think the Twins (Santana) or the A’s (Haren) would demand Reyes, Gomez, and Maine or Humber. The Mets just put themselves in a bad place if you ask me.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Hello folks. Seems that our contention that Milledge was an anvil around the neck of the Mets might have had some truth to it.

While Schneider and Church are both serviceable major leaguers, they are not what the Mets truly needed (quality top notch starter). At least DC should be a decent place for LM to follow through with his rap career.

One thing that breaks my heart is that I was really hoping that the Braves would move BPena to Washington for Ryan Church. Oh well, I guess I have to set my sights on David DeJesus or Randy Winn.

The Matsui signing by Houston makes no sense to me, unless they are going to deal Chris Burke. The experiment with Burke in the outfield was not a good one. I had him pegged to replace Biggio.

Also, too bad we can’t get on the Mark Loretta bandwagon. Probably too much $$ for a utility guy, although he would be a great one.

By divx

November 30, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Robert, I think you’re really over rating Reyes and under rating Wright when you compare him to Chipper and say hes the soul of the Mets. Don’t get me wrong, Reyes is a very good player, but the highest OPS+ he’s ever posted is 115. To put that in to perspective, the lowest OPS+ Chipper has posted since his rookie season is 116 and Wright’s lowest is 118. Reyes does do a lot of things that Chipper can’t like cause havoc on the bases and he’s got a better glove than Chipper, but Chipper’s offense really overshadows that. On the other hand, while Reyes is faster than Wright and can steal more bases, Wright is a much smarter base runner and still has very good speed, having only been caught stealing 5 times in 39 attempts last year. Basically I just think Wright is the Mets’ franchise player and not Reyes.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

RJIB

No way does the Rays trade Crawford now. They have their outfield set now, with Upton, Dukes and Crawford. Also, they are probably done going after pitching with the addition of Garza. Besides, they are too darn hard to deal with.

Also, I don’t think Haren brings nearly the package that Santana would bring. I think the Mets could get it done without Reyes, but it is improbable. More likely to see them pick up Blanton for a package that includes Gomes and Humber.

Do you guys think it would be a good move for the Braves to offer a package of Lillibridge, Reyes and G Hernandez for Haren???

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Wayne, Loretta will cost too much. That is why the Braves should have signed him last offseason like I advocated.

By TNRON

November 30, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew or Robert,what would you think of Chris Burke as a utility guy.He can play SS,2B,and CF.He is a RH with a little pop.Sentimentally for me he played at UT.A change of scenery would probably be good for him.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

TNRON I have never heard of Burke playing SS. We have plenty of middle infielders that can’t play short already.

By ncscoots

November 30, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

The Rays couldn�t be much worse without [Crawford] right. I think a package of B. Jones, Prado, and James may do the trick.

Except that the Rays no longer need a pitcher such as Chuck (they have at least 4 back-of-the-rotation possibilities already, with some pretty good upside); Brandon Jones is an OF (of which they have a glut); and Prado is not much of an upgrade, if any, over the current feeble corps of 2B there.

Rays would ask for bullpen help and a ML-ready middle infielder in any other OF trade, IMO. Get that for Gomes, or even Dukes, and they start to become a very interesting team.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Burke had 23 total chances in 15 games at short over 3 years. Only 4 were starts.

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Wow, lots of strong posts this afternoon. Sorry for the delay getting a new blog up, but I actually spent most of the day riding motorcycles up to the Georgia mountains with a bunch of guys including Terry Pendleton and Fredi Gonzalez. I’ll get to work on a new blog now, gotta call Wren to get some stuff for Winter Meetings story first.

By Lew

November 30, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Sorry you feel so persecuted, but I just went back to 4:58 yesterday (my first post to you about the AL-NL thing. In no post did I call you a Troll (in fact I said I wouldn’t call you a Troll). I did not call you an idiot. In fact the only time the word was even mentioned was “instead of taking the attitude that you know everything and people are out to make you look like an idiot.” Quite different context. I didn’t call you an idiot, just implied you were thinking that those who disagreed with you were doing it to make you look like one.

The only slurs (if you can call them that-and I sincerely hope that you never have anyone say anything worse to you), were calling you clueless (wow, how harsh) and I said you didn’t know your @$$ from a hole in the ground (on this particular subject I don’t think you do). I think Fool was mentioned once. Dude, that doesn’t even stoop close to the level of one of the better posts directed to me by No Chop Zone or the Old Stinky. Sticks and stones, Dude. Sticks and stones. If you think I am casting aspersions on your intelligence, then say something intelligent and make me change my mind-Or just get over it.

By Lew

November 30, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

EFrim-Sorry, Dude, I called you pig headed, too. I’ll be more careful in the future. Would you prefer hard headed or obstinate?

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

yeah, knowitall, only with the knicks could you get you and your boss found liable of sexual harassment of a very ugly woman and keep your job. if he was doing a good job with the basketball, personnel, and financial decisions that would be one thing but…..

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

divx, you are making the mistake so many here make. And that is basing everything on stats. Reyes brings more than stats to that team. He brings energy and a fire to them. He is the cheerleader and the spark. Now, I will conceded that Chipper is far from a “cheerleader” but he brings a certain energy and attitude to the team and you can see it most when he’s not there. The teams seems listless. I think Escobar is that kind of player which is one reason I thought the Braves needed to keep him. He brings an energy to the team that is simply an intangible.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Lew

If you think I am casting aspersions on your intelligence, then say something intelligent and make me change my mind-Or just get over it.

You mean agree with everything you say??? No, I will not. I could care less if you think what I say is intelligent or not. Why bother to attempt to change your mind? I don’t like you and you don’t like me. Leave it at that.

By TNRON

November 30, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Wayne,I really was more focused on the CF part of the Burke suggestion.I knew he played SS in college and in the minors and was pretty sure he had played it at the Major League level but after reading your last post I have softened my opinion.If we are to go with either Josh Anderson or Schafer,both LH batters,it would be nice to have a RH option to face tough leftys.

By Saltywoody

November 30, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Riding in the Georgia mountains with TP and Fredi Gonzalez.

Tough gig you have, DOB. ;)

Must have been great up there. What kind of bikes do TP and FG ride?

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Lew

EFrim-Sorry, Dude, I called you pig headed, too. I�ll be more careful in the future. Would you prefer hard headed or obstinate?

Well played. What a guy?!?! Lew Hartman folks. Keep the applause going.

By Ben

November 30, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

DOB, you’re such a rockstar, riding bikes with TP & Fredi Gonzalez. Gotta say, your life sounds pretty awesome. I hope you feel fortunate man!

By uga-brave

November 30, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

tommy tubberville has just agreed in principal to arkansas

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

TNRON I have always liked Burke, and think he might become a better ML player in time. Seems he didn’t take to the outfield like they were hoping, or maybe his bat was too weak to leave him out there.

I personally think if we are going to want a righty CF’er (I really don”t think that is a concern of the Braves), Lillibridge would do the trick.

I truly don’t think that you platoon a centerfielder, unless you are really pressed to do so. That position is so important, that I can’t remember a truly successful CF platoon. To be honest, all you are going to need is an ocassional replacement for your centerfielder. I think this is why the Braves are looking for another one now, in case Anderson or Schafer (or Blanco) can’t handle it 162 times or close to it.

In that light, I really think you will see Anderson as the backup outfielder this year, if he gets beat out by Schafer. If they both do well, then that is a good problem to have, as good centerfielders are a great trade piece to have around.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

TNRON, Burke can play some SS but doesn’t have enough experience to be trusted.

Wayne, as much as I love Haren, I don’t think Lillibridge should be traded. I see him like I see Escobar and that is being way too valuable to let go. Now, one package I thought about was this one: B. Jones, Kelly Johnson, James, and Devine (if you have to throw him in) or I would prefer subbing Diaz for Jones but don’t know if Billy Beane would go for that one. Heck, I even think that package is good enough for Blanton given the Braves get Kotsay or Cust back in the deal as well. Escobar could move to 2B while Lillibridge could take over @ SS.

The problem is that the loser of the Santana sweepstakes (Red Sox or Yankees) are likley to go after Haren and have infinitely better package than anything the Braves could offer.

By Wayne in Utah

November 30, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

TNRON Here is the real problem. We go crazy analyzing the heck out of all this, and in the end, the Braves 95% of the time pull off something that we are not expecting at all!

Drives me crazy, the waiting and wondering!

But, I do love it!

Gotta run. Catch you later.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Here’s a scenario that could play out. If the Yanks get Santana and have to give up Cano in the deal along with Hughes or Kennedy, that will leave a hole at 2B for them. The Yanks will still be looking to possibly move Melkey Cabrera because they have a situation in the OF with Damon and Matsui. I know all the crap about Damon’s “noodle arm” but the Yanks can’t have he or Matsui just sitting on the bench when they are making $13 mil a piece. Okay, the Braves offer Kelly Johnson for Cabrera. Cabrera plays CF and possibly moves to LF when Schafer arrives or gets traded if B. Jones plays well enough to earn the everyday LF job. Johnson fills the void @ 2B left by Cano. I know the Yanks are looking at signing Loretta but he is 36 years old. Johnson is 26 and still hasn’t hit arbitration yet.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Apparently, the Mets think they could acquire a front of the rotation type starter by trading Gomez/Martinez with any of their other starters. I understand the Milledge trade if they could actually get a guy like Dan Haren or Erik Bedard for Gomez and others. I would be a little suprised if that were possible. It sounds like they will just sign Carlos Silva and/or Livan Hernandez.

By Greg O.

November 30, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, with the Mets trading for Schneider, I read a rumor that Johnny Estrada would likely be non-tendered - makes sense with the Mets just erasing the awful Mota deal. If that happens, do you see any way the Braves would sign Estrada to back up McCann?

By TNRON

November 30, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Wayne I agree on Lillibridge,but the only way to get him enough AB’s would be to platoon him in CF and as you well know Bobby is really sold on platooning against LHers.Case in point last year we know Kelly can hit LHers but he(Cox) played Escobar at 2b against them to get him AB’s.If you cant get him 350-400 AB’s he would be better off playing everyday in Richmond.RJIB I think you have the Santana senario down pat.

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN: Not surprising, but Braves are about to make it official that they’re offering arbitrtation to Mahay and not to Andruw, for the reasons we’ve stated before.

Andruw’s salary would easily surpass $15 mill if he were to accept arbitration, and because he’s a 10-and-5 guy, Braves couldn’t trade him if he accepted arbitration.

Mahay, on the other hand, would likely have a salary under this winter’s market value for relievers, so there’s really no downside in offering him arbitration. Plus, Braves could trade him to one of the many teams interested in him since he’s not a 10-and-5 guy.

OK, I’ll put this stuff in a new blog

By JC FROM UT

November 30, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

WAYNE&RJIB: I agree with you both. FW needs to put a package together inorder to get Haren. I say B.Jones,Chuck,Gorky,and Devine for Haren and Kotsay.

By dcarp23

November 30, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

This little snippet comes from Buster Olney’s blog:

Adam Everett suffered a terrible injury that all but ended his season in June last year. E-mailed him and asked how he is feeling. “I am 100 percent and ready to go,” Everett wrote. “Watching from the bench was not fun but you have to find good in everything. I just hope the Astros tender me [a contract]. It’s all part of it, though.”

This makes me assume that the Astros have NOT yet tendered him a contract. If not, talk about the ideal backup middle infielder. He’s a local boy and the best fielder in the game. But maybe he’ll have offers (including from Houston) to start.

By TennesseePaul

November 30, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Don’t tell Payne. Bill James believes in the Clutch.

“The discussion has been premised upon an assertion, rather than flowing from the question itself.”
—Bill James

By Shaun

November 30, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

I agree on intuition and intangibles being an integral part of baseball, but sometimes, pure numbers (not this ridiculous VORP and whatnot), do tell the story.

This is hilarious. Some number are good enough, some are not because of “purity” as defined by…I don’t know what.

By Russell

November 30, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

With all do respect, it would be insanity for the Braves to not offer arbitration to Andruw. Worst case scenario is that he accept it, and we get a below market-value rate for a CF on a one-year deal. That sounds great! Or would you rather a kid who hasn’t played about High-A take over? Or another kid who hasn’t played CF since college? Or sign a free agent? I think I like my chances with a rebound year for Andruw (as the worst case scenario). If he doesn’t accept it, we can try and re-coup the draft pick lost on Glavine.

By Anders

November 30, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Someone pinch me - Omar made a whole trade without any Latinos coming to the Mets! Am I dreaming?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Here’s the thing about numbers. I think they are a great guide to go by but shouldn’t be your only guide. You have to look at all factors. Intangibles are real and merit respect. Just because a guy may hit 25Hr and drive in 95 RBI means he is a valuable part of the team. Are those homers and RBI really valuable or do they come in “garbage” time. Its like a quarterback who goes 35/42 for 383 yds. But, when you look deeper into those yards passed for were the result of his team being down 28-0 at halftime and the defense playing soft in the 2nd half.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Russell, if Andrew accepts arbitration he is going to receive $15 to $16.5 mil. The Braves can’t afford that. That is money that can be better spent. And what if Andruw doesn’t have a “bounce back” season? They can’t trade him because he is 10/5 guy. Boras won’t allow him to waive his no trade clause which is irrelevant anyway because if the Braves were trying to trade him next July that means he is stinking up the joint again.

And, yes, while its risky to go with a rookie or a second year player there lets not forget that a veteran (Marquis Grissom) got pushed aside for Andruw when he was a mere rookie at 19 years of age.

By old timer

November 30, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

DAVE: Is there any way to separate your opening from the blog entries? That way, I could get to your stuff when I am in a hurry and get the best Braves updates around. This thing gets so long it really slows down even high-speed Internet.

While I’m here I might as well place a comment re your story way up there at the top. Arbitration has to go. It is ruining the game. I am willing to skip an entire season to get rid of it. Owners, just tell the players that if they want to do hit and field for a living they have to agree to drop arbitration. If somebody can get way more money through arbitration than they can based on their actual worth, it’s time to get rid of arbitration. Past time, because this has been a fact of baseball life for years.

By Shaun

November 30, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best), I think the issue here for me is that some numbers are acceptable and some are not. Even though the ones that are acceptable may tell us very little about a player in actuality.

It’s funny to me that some will criticize people who use what are deemed unacceptable numbers (“impure” numbers) while they are perfectly fine using acceptable numbers (“pure” numbers). And no one bothers to figure out if the acceptable numbers are actually as useful as some want to make them.

By Braveheart

November 30, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Someone pinch me - Omar made a whole trade without any Latinos coming to the Mets! Am I dreaming?

What are you talking about? The Mets got Schneiderino and Churcharino. Or at least that is what they are telling Omar.

By Shaun

November 30, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best), an example of what I’m talking about: VORP or Win Shares are not acceptable to many. If you pay attention to them then you are a stat geek, you rely too much on stats and you don’t know anything about intangibles and grit. AVG-HR-RBI-R are acceptable to many. If you use them you are a real fan, not some numbers geek who is stuck to a spreadsheet all day.

No one bothers to ask why this is the case, if Win Shares and VORP actually tell us more about a player than AVG-HR-RBI-R, or if the people who pay attention to things like VORP and Win Shares have something to offer.

By mo in the boonies

November 30, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Boston might be willing to give up Ellsbury?? They’d have to be out of their minds to get rid of that kid. He is a future star.

DOB the dad in the commercial is lying to all of them, he figures he is numero uno. Hey, the lady is trying to stay in shape! Ya, I know, in shape for what? GQ man of the year..good one!

Robdawg no problem, all in the name of fairness.

Richbrave, wish all the best to you, even if your mom thinks you are the bad news kid….grin.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

I have to say I like arbitration. The alternative is not good. If there was no arbitration you would have guys holding out and crap like that. Think about it. Somebody like Teixeira could reasonably ask for $20 mil right now. He is worth it. Because of arbitration he will have to accept about $13 mil. I agree that some players get paid way more than they are worth through arbitration but if it didn’t exist MLB would be like the NBA. The NBA where some scrub on the bench makes $8 mil a year.

By B

November 30, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Well the mets traded for R. Church and Nat. catcher. Now they go after Haren or Blanton. Damn wish the Braves would get off their a@@ and do something. We are no better than last year. Better get another st. pitcher are they will wish they had.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

I hear you, Shaun. And, you are right for the most part.

Now, people really want to know what is ruining the game? Greedy owners. If owners would quit giving guys inane amounts of money then they would stop asking for inane amounts of money. Also, if the “star” players weren’t getting so much you would see the arbitration eligible players get less as well.

Its so easy to blame players for the financial woes of the game. But, they are only asking for astronomical amounts of money because they know owners will give it them. Can’t blame the players. Its called capitalism.

Just like in every other sport. Owners get greedy start treating real money like Monopoly money. Then, when THEIR spending gets out of control turn around, blame the players and act like they don’t know how the financial situation “has gotten to this point”. Give me a break!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 30, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Baseball needs a hard salary cap. That is it!

By GermanBravesFan

November 30, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

Russell: Andruw could have received $15 million in arbitration!!!

By rich brave

November 30, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

LEW:

Sorry I missed your post in response to mine. A few errands to take care of. Did you hear my chuckle? You have a good sense of humor. I like that. I hope you have so many commissions you’re backed up ‘till the next decade. Here’s to artistic expression, statistics and intuition. Later…

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I think every stat has value. Some more than others, but it depends on what your preferences are. Bringing up VORP and Win Shares doesn’t make you a “stat geek”, it is just the stats that you like to use to evaluate a player.

But I’ll tell ya, it baffles me to hear that someone can knock you for using stats to back your arguements, but then use stats to back one of their own.

By Efrim

November 30, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

Robert (JITB),

The thing that worries me is when teams like the Yanks, Red Sox and Mets start putting more money into the draft. They already have to some degree. Tigers sure have. Rick Porcello fell to them with the second to last pick in the first round because no one else felt that they could afford to sign him. It is downright ridiculous. There are slots for each pick, but no one follows them.

The Red Sox are starting to realize this and it is showing on the field and within their farm system. Their organization is so rich, in terms of prospects and money, that they might be able to land the best pitcher in baseball without having to trade Clay Bucholz or Jacoby Ellsbury. Pretty depressing if you are a small market club like the Rays or Twins.

By rich brave

November 30, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

EFRIM:

Speaking of stats. I’m slowly becoming aware of just how many statistical sites exist out there in cyberspace. Jeez, it gives me a headache and what time-eaters!! I’ve just got too many other demands on my time to research everything I want to respond to here. I’ve tried a Wizards blog, even a Redskins blog, and this one by far seems the best informed of any I have seen up to now. My hats off to all of you who are regular contributors for the knowledge you provide. I’ve learned a lot and look forward to lots more information over time. To the irregulars informed or otherwise I say stay, learn and become an informed contributor to this blog yourself. And to Drool and Met Man I say stay out from under bridges and let the best organization field the best team. Go Braves!!

By David O'Brien

November 30, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this

Alright, folks, I finally got a new blog posted. Sorry for the delays and any sluggishness it might have caused on your downloading.

Anyway, new one’s up. And i know it’s another big football weekend and all, but hey, the damn Winter Meetings are starting Monday. Big Stuff. And even if the Braves don’t expect to make a lot of moves, hey, you can let the brass know how you feel, what you’d like to see get done, right?

I can assure you, some of them read the blog.

By jay

November 30, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

Has anyone read the garbage that is coming out of terrence the racist moore. Seems like all he wants to talk about is this stupid race issue. Doesn’t he know that he sounds like a broken record. He must be giving jesse the crackhead jackson daily blowj_bs. I can’t see any other reason for him to still have a job. I can’t belive they had a meeting about this junk again. Why would a team risk not going to the playoffs or haveing a loseing yr. because they had to many crappy negro players on there team. I can’t believe the few good negro players lowered thereselves to be involved in this retarded issue. Where is all the white people in the NBA having meetings to try and make sure every team has atleast five white players. I am so sick of every day I wake up to see blacks complaining about every little thing that crosses there little pea brains. If you ignorant people want to see more black athletes why don’t they look at some football or basketball or track and field. Why can’t these people see that blks. are not that good at team sports all they think about is there self and they act like they single handedly won everything. What a bunch of losers. Most owners of teams look at whats inside a player, what type of person and what there attitude is. If you ask me they should leave a team to be ran by it’s owners. Not a bunch of people that are seeking to take advantage of the situation. If blks. want to see more blk. players why don’t they revive the negro leagues. And leave the MLB to the rest of the none african americans who just want to play and not put up with spoiled ego driven player who think they are way better than they really are. Rip terrence no count moore. you and your aa’s can go to h.e.l.l

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