AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > November > 22 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USAfter Glavine, still moves to be made by Braves
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Yes, the Braves still have concerns, including the glaring hole in center, the lack of a proven lefty reliever, and a starting rotation that has a potential pool of eight quality pitchers to choose from, but more than half of whom are either over 40 (John Smoltz, Tom Glavine), have 10 or fewer big-league starts (Jo-Jo Reyes, Jair Jurrjens), or missed the past two seasons (Mike Hampton).
That said, Braves players I’ve spoken with, as well as a few players and officials from other teams, are in agreement: The Braves and new GM Frank Wren have been aggressive, proactive, and sensible with their early moves.
The latest was the long-anticipated signing of Glavine to a one-year, $8 million contract. Not bad for a 303-game winner and future Hall of Famer who has won at least 13 games in 17 of the past 19 seasons, and pitched at least 198 innings in 12 of 13 seasons. Even if he will be 42 in March.
Glavine conceded at his Monday press conference that he’s not a No. 1 pitcher anymore, though he can still pitch that way some nights. He was brutally honest and said he’s not a $13 million pitcher (the option he declined with the Mets) and didn’t want the pressure of that price tag every time he went to the mound.
But that’s fine with the Braves, who got him to be a No. 3 starter who can pitch close to 200 innings, something that only two Braves starters (aces Smoltz and Tim Hudson) did last season. No other Brave was even close.
His $8 mill price tag is $2 mill below what old friend Greg Maddux got to re-sign with San Diego (Maddux is 41 and was 29-25 with a 4.17 ERA in 408 innings over the past two seaons; Glavine is 41 and was 28-15 with a 4.13 ERA in 398-1/3 innings over the past two seasons).
They both seem like bargains compared to, say, ex-Brave Jason Marquis, who got a three-year, $21 million contract with the Cubs before last season, after going 14-16 with a 6.02 ERA for St. Louis in 2006 and being left off the Cardinals’ playoff roster. Marquis went 12-9 with a 4.60 ERA in 191-2/3 innings in 2007.
Or how ‘bout Joel Pineiro, who just re-upped with St. Louis for three years and $13 mill. This for a starter who won 30 games (30-18) during 2002-03 for Seattle, but is 28-40 with a 5.39 ERA since then.
In the past two seasons, Pineiro is 15-18 with a 5.61 ERA, with a .301 opp avg and 37 homers allowed in 263-1/3 innings. Now three more years, $13 million.
Smoltz reaction: I got a call back from Smoltz a little too late Monday to get his quotes in my Glavine-signing story, so I’ll give them to you here. As you might expect, he was thrilled to get his old buddy back on the team — and not because it gives Smoltz another worthy golf partner.
“This is about as good as it gets for me, as far as what it means to the Atlanta Braves oreganization and what he’s meant to me, being able to work with him,” Smoltz said.
“It’s neat — that’s not the best word to use, but I don’t want to sound like I’m going overboard — it’s neat to have this happen. It’s great for the organization.”
Considering the tight budgets of recent years, the animosity over previous negotiations between Glavine, his agent and the Braves, and the failed pursuit of Glavine a year ago, was Smoltz surprised that this got done?
“I’ve got to be a little bit surprised, because you never know how things are going to work,” he said. “A lot of things contributed to it happening.”
Smoltz said that Glavine makes sense on a lot of levels for these Braves.
“Leaving me out of it,” Smoltz said, “he means a lot to these young left-handers that we have. He means a lot to the bullpen. You know you’re going to get starts out of this guy. You know he’s going to cover games.”
With the uncertainty surrounding Hampton’s health, and Smoltz’s own age, he has said he wants the Braves to have, in effect, a six-man rotation, including a long reliever capable of making spot starts when others need to skip a start.
“That’s what the mindset’s got to be, with a six-man rotation, with Hampton,” Smoltz said. “[Glavine] gives us experience, a little more comfort. It allows Chuck James to not deal with so much pressure, and also allows him to pick Tommy’s brain…. This does so many things for us.
“I know some people are just going to be focused on the wins and losses, and whether it was a PR move. I’m telling you, this is a big step toward us reaching our goals.
“Nothing’s a given; I’m not a given.”
Then Smoltz paused and said in a proud tone, “But one thing you know: the three of us are still pitching.”
He meant him, Glavine and Maddux.
The Braves have already made significant moves well before the Winter Meetings, including trading Edgar Renteria to Detroit for a young center-field prospect and starting prospect Jurrjens, trading reliever Oscar Villarreal for rookie center fielder Josh Anderson and signing Glavine.
“This is the best time to do it, best time to set your team,” Smoltz said. “Given some options, and given the fact that there are some very good pieces here already, we’ve now got to make it happen where we’re addressing some of those needs. It’s not easy - it’s not like picking apples off a tree — but it’s a lot easier to do it now than in July or August.”
Braves president Terry McGuirkhas said more than once this offseason that payroll will rise and the Braves now have the money to make moves.
“I’ve been very encouraged [by McGuirk’s comments],” Smoltz said. “Sometimes as a player or a fan — sometimes we’re both — you never know what you’re going to have to work with. I think every team’s looking for that one name that takes you go from a pretender to a contender. That doesn’t always happen, but if you get a couple of those pieces, you go hmmm…. That’s where we’re headed. We’re getting close to that.
“We lost two great players in Edgar Renteria and Andruw Jones. We’re probably never going to replace Andruw Jones….
“[But] there’s tremendous upside for Mike Hampton. And now with Tom Glavine — to have that depth gives you … tough decisions to make. If we have to make tough decisions, that’s a luxury, rather than the alternative.”
About that Glavine finish: Much has been made of Glavine’s final few starts for the Mets — which were no doubt dreadful, especially the last two.
He was 8-1 with a 3.20 ERA over his 18-start stretch directly before those last three games, in which he was 0-2 with a 14.81 ERA. He allowed 13 runs in 5-1/3 innings in his final two starts, and recorded only out in the last one.
Like I said, bad.
But a couple of other big-name pitchers struggled down the stretch, and no one one would suggest their arms are shot, their careers over. No one has said their end-of-season stumbles were indicative of anything other than, they ran out of gas at the end of the season.
Johan Santana, arguably the best pitcher in our sport, was 1-4 with a 5.11 ERA in his final six starts, with one quality start in that stretch.
Maddux was 2-2 with a 9.00 ERA and .413 opponents’ average in his last four starts, while allowing 31 hits and 17 runs in 17 innings, including starts of 3 innings and 3-1/3 innings.
Hey, Glavine was really bad in those last two starts. Beyond bad in the last one. But he said he wasn’t hurt, and Braves doctors who examined him last week said his arm and overall health were excellent.
It’s not as if he ever relied on 95-mph heat to be successful.
Glavine on Cox: Someone asked Glavine at the press conference about playing again for manager Bobby Cox. I’ll just run his answer verbatim.
“It’s great; I have a ton of respect for Bobby,” Glavine said. “I always have. He’s been the single greatest influence on my career. I’ve learned a lot from Bobby — how to play the game, how to respect the game, how to respect your team and the uniform you wear, how to go out there every day and just compete, go out there with an idea of what you’re trying to do and try your best to do it. And if you don’t, then get ready to do it again the next day and start over.
“Bobby’s reputation and Bobby’s character speaks for itself. Ask anybody who’s played for him and they’ll tell you. You’re not going to have everybody love you, but you’d be hard-pressed to find anybody in the game who’s played for Bobby that didn’t love playing for him.
“If there was one question I got repeatedly the last five years in New York, it was, ‘What’s it like playing for Bobby?’ It’s not something you can answer in a minute. It takes a while.
“He has an uncanny ability to get the best out of players, whether they’re young guys or kind of reclamation projects, he has a great ability to put guys in position to succeed. We’ve all seen it, year after year, guys come in here who you’re not quite sure what you’re going to get out of them, and when all’s said and done you get good years out of those guys. Most of that is Bobby.”
One question, and that was the response.
Whither Andruw? I don’t know where Andruw’s gonna end up, since I believed the Angels were a good bet to make him a big offer. Texas makes some sense, and the Chicago White Sox wanted to trade for him a few years ago. So maybe they’ll be a suitor.
I can tell you, everything I’ve heard is that the Braves will not be, that he’s not coming back, regardless of speculation by many who wonder if Jones might go around the lightning-rod agent Scott Boras’ back again and come back for a reduced one-year contract.
No, I’m told. Not gonna happen. Period.
Can’t tell you if the Braves will acquire another center fielder - DeJesus, Crisp, etc. - or if they’ll go with what they have and make it a three-way battle for the job among kids Jordan Schafer, Josh Anderson and Gregor Blanco.
But I will guarantee you that the Braves are going to miss Andruw Jones’ offense. Yes, offense. He was bad last season, hitting a career-low .222. Terrible average. Just awful.
And this after hitting .261, .263 and .262 over the previous three seasons. Not good.
In 257 games since June 3, 2006, Andruw has hit a dreadful .232 with a .333 OBP. Repeating, he’s hit .232 in his past 257 games, or 937 at-bats.
That said, the Braves are going to miss his run production a lot more than some people seem to believe. I keep reading folks here say things like, ‘How much worse can Schafer be, or Blanco, or whoever, if they hit .230 they’ll still be better than Andruw.’
No.
Because despite hitting .232 in those past 257 games, Andruw also had 53 homers, 154 runs and 171 RBIs in that stretch.
Granted, he might have had 210 RBIs if he’d hit for a decent average with runners in scoring position in that period. But the point remains, he had 53 homers and 171 RBIs since June 3, 2006, during a stretch in which his average was flat-out awful.
For some comparison, here’s what a few other outfielders have hit since June 3, 2006:
Torii Hunter: .286 average (.336 OBP) with 146 runs, 50 homers, 171 RBIs in 253 games.
Vernon Wells: .264 average (.321 OBP) with 144 runs, 33 homers, 143 RBIs in 253 games.
Coco Crisp: .263 average (.321 OBP) with 132 runs, 13 homers, 93 RBIs in 240 games.
And J.D. Drew (hey, we’re just having some fun here): .277 average (.384 OBP) with 140 runs, 22 homers, 124 RBIs in 238 games.
Yes, he’s often a mess at the plate. But Andruw still, somehow, piled up some pretty solid run-production numbers.
Alright, take us out Mr. Zimmerman….
”TANGLED UP IN BLUE” by Bob Dylan
Early one mornin’ the sun was shinin’,
I was layin’ in bed
Wonderin’ if she’d changed at all
If her hair was still red.
Her folks they said our lives together
Sure was gonna be rough
They never did like Mama’s homemade dress
Papa’s bankbook wasn’t big enough.
And I was standin’ on the side of the road
Rain fallin’ on my shoes
Heading out for the East Coast
Lord knows I’ve paid some dues gettin’ through,
Tangled up in blue.
She was married when we first met
Soon to be divorced
I helped her out of a jam, I guess,
But I used a little too much force.
We drove that car as far as we could
Abandoned it out West
Split up on a dark sad night
Both agreeing it was best.
She turned around to look at me
As I was walkin’ away
I heard her say over my shoulder,
“We’ll meet again someday on the avenue,”
Tangled up in blue.
I had a job in the great north woods
Working as a cook for a spell
But I never did like it all that much
And one day the ax just fell.
So I drifted down to New Orleans
Where I happened to be employed
Workin’ for a while on a fishin’ boat
Right outside of Delacroix.
But all the while I was alone
The past was close behind,
I seen a lot of women
But she never escaped my mind, and I just grew
Tangled up in blue.
She was workin’ in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer,
I just kept lookin’ at the side of her face
In the spotlight so clear.
And later on as the crowd thinned out
I’s just about to do the same,
She was standing there in back of my chair
Said to me, “Don’t I know your name?”
I muttered somethin’ underneath my breath,
She studied the lines on my face.
I must admit I felt a little uneasy
When she bent down to tie the laces of my shoe,
Tangled up in blue.
She lit a burner on the stove and offered me a pipe
“I thought you’d never say hello,” she said
“You look like the silent type.”
Then she opened up a book of poems
And handed it to me
Written by an Italian poet
From the thirteenth century.
And every one of them words rang true
And glowed like burnin’ coal
Pourin’ off of every page
Like it was written in my soul from me to you,
Tangled up in blue.
I lived with them on Montague Street
In a basement down the stairs,
There was music in the cafes at night
And revolution in the air.
Then he started into dealing with slaves
And something inside of him died.
She had to sell everything she owned
And froze up inside.
And when finally the bottom fell out
I became withdrawn,
The only thing I knew how to do
Was to keep on keepin’ on like a bird that flew,
Tangled up in blue.
So now I’m goin’ back again,
I got to get to her somehow.
All the people we used to know
They’re an illusion to me now.
Some are mathematicians
Some are carpenter’s wives.
Don’t know how it all got started,
I don’t know what they’re doin’ with their lives.
But me, I’m still on the road
Headin’ for another joint
We always did feel the same,
We just saw it from a different point of view,
Tangled up in blue.
Comments
By brian
November 22, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
first?
By brian
November 22, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this
I am still excited about the Tom Glavine signing.
Everyone wants to trade Chuck James. I think that would be a big mistake. This year was his sophomore slump and it still was not that bad. The trouble was that the Braves expected young Chuckie to be their #3 starter due to their lack of depth. James can easily be a long term, solid #3 for the Braves. It is way too early to give up on him, and don’t bloggers every year try to trade away some starting pitching because we “have too many starters” which never turns out to be the case.
I have no problem with the 3 rookies trying to hold down CF. They play solid defense and will bat 8th in the order. That is assuming the Braves fill their other holes - reliable lefty in the bullpen and bench help. It seems like Boston has Crisp’s price way too high for his performance in Boston - way too high for someone who lost his job to a rookie this year. I do not think Crisp is a good fit for the Braves with his game or with his clubhouse presence (by report).
Since we gave away Davies for just a few games from Dotel, maybe Moore will feel bad for us and work a deal for DeJesus though I would be afraid of Moore prying away someone we should not give away.
Thanks for the blog DOB. All of us here are thankful for your tireless work on the blog. Happy Thanksgiving
By chrisklob
November 22, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
brian, considering that Kyle Davies got worse after leaving Atlanta, Dayton Moore might think that FW owes HIM a little something extra! Not the other way around.
By summerteeth
November 22, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB….nice finish to a full day.
And man, I have never seen 1 bad season kill interest in a player like it has for Andruw. No way Tori Hunter is a better player. I say Andruw ends up a Yankee.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 22, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
I am re-posting this from the last blog as DOB pulled the trigger a little too quick for me.
Folks, last post for me tonight and then spend some quality time with the wife who did an outstanding job today with “The Feast”.
After thoughtful consideration. I would rather have Lillibridge in a utility role for a year than to waste him as a trade piece for some stop gap player who has little upside.
The only question mark about Brent to me is if he can hit major league pitching with consistency at this point in his career but I’ll bet $10 to a donut that he can hit at least as well as the dozens of names thrown out so far as possible back ups for Escobar.
Yunel has the advantage of age over Lillibridge so he has more experience but I cannot say he has a higher ceiling. Knowing now that Brent played hurt the last few weeks of the season and still played at a high level showed me something.
He is the type of player you hold onto for dear life because if you like some of the young talent you have seen come to Atlanta in the past few years then hold onto your hat because you are going to drool all over yourself for this guy. He is just that good and the Braves stole him from the Pirates plain and simple.
Have a good night all and I will catch up with you all in the morning.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
November 22, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this
DOB, you are right about Furcal. He was a good leadoff hitter. He just tried to hit too many homeruns.
Rumor has it the Reds are aggressively shopping Ryan Freel. I’m not to sold on him. One becuase of his injuries and two, because I think he is a bit overrated. I would really like to see Figgins here but don’t know whom the Braves could really send of consequence other than Kelly Johnson. I suppose Jo Jo Reyes but I don’t know if I like that either.
By JerseyGil
November 22, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
DOB,,,I take Glavine 13 Win anytime, with him last year will won the Division…He was not him at the end, posible Family matters,My question to you is about Center Field…Why Brandon Jones is Playing Center in Mexixo..it this mean that the Braves give him a change in Spring training to compete in Center?
By brian
November 22, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
What ever happened to the Braves/MIB blog T-shirts? Seems like it would be easy enough to create a good T-shirt and design, and sell them on ebay for anyone who wanted to buy them. For such a popular blog, I bet there would be some demand here. Maybe even Stinky would get one
By mike
November 22, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this
DOB Im well aware of Lillibridge’s and B Jone’s Minor League numbers but where exactly are they supposed to play? Escobar is the future SS, its been said that KJohnson isn’t going anywhere, and Lillibridge hasn’t been spoken about as a serious candidate for CF. Whether you want to admit it or not theres not going to be an opening for Lillibridge in Atlanta for a few years. As far as Brandon Jones goes, he’s penciled in as playing behind Matt Diaz this year and isn’t seen as being as good an outfield prospect as Hernandez or Schaeffer so where does that leave him? As a backup. I think two backups for Hamilton is not exactly emptying the farm but I do see your point that their worths right now are too much for someone who has played half a season. Maybe C James and one of Brandon Jones or Lilibridge would be fair. The Reds have Dunn for one more year and Griffey for 2 so a corner outfield prospect would fit their needs pretty well to go along with a good young pitcher. The main point I’m trying to make is that the Braves need more out of CF this year than what they have right now if they plan on being a postseason team
By JJMB
November 22, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this
WEE-HOO, soft-toss DOB says his contacts approve of the Braves moves.
Dang, that really set me on my ear! Radical stuff. What will he type next?
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 22, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
DOB — any idea of the type of influence that Leo Mazzone had on Glavine? I’m just wondering because he was bad the first couple years when he left Atlanta and Leo and went to New York…I’m curious how much of that could be attributed to not having his longtime pitching coach with him anymore, if it contributed at all.
By TexasBrave
November 22, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil - We will need a lot of options to replace AJ. And as you can tell from DOB’s blog that even though his BA was low, AJ still produced a lot of runs, HR and RBI’s. None of the options listed so far will replace his offense and no one we could trade for could do so either.
I still think it is absolutely foolish for the Braves to say that they will most definitely not talk to AJ no matter what the situation. The only way we get a good stop gap CF this winter is through a trade in which the other team is going to want some of our young pitchers. Given the state of our aging rotation that would not be a smart move.
By JerseyGil
November 22, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
Update on Hampton first Inning,,,i hit, one K Swing i fly to second..Bottom of the first brando jones Single
By Braves Fan 79
November 22, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this
Happy Thanksgiving DOB. The Braves will be just fine this year if we can lay off the temptation to bring in a bunch of old crappy “vets” that no other team wants. (see…woodward, wilson). In fact if their last name starts with a W…LEAVE THEM ALONE!! Last years offseason moves were TERRIBLE! Go Braves!
By chrisklob
November 22, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this
TexasBrave, AJ had high RBI numbers because he hit behind ER and CJ most of the year and those guys were on base all the time. He scored plenty of runs because most of the year Frenchy and Heap were hitting behind him. His HR numbers were down significantly from his past few years. In no way, shape, or form can you say that AJ had a successful year. His successes were not due to his ability but due to his circumstances. You or I could have put up fair numbers in that position. Alright, maybe YOU could have, I probably don’t have it any more.
Anyway, the point is this. Andruw Jones is an ex-Brave. You can pi$$ and moan and cry and say how it’s unfair and stupid they won’t at least give him a one year deal but at this point, the people in charge of making decisions, the ones that have forgotten more about this game and how to evaluate a players’ skills than any of us will ever know, say that Andruw Rudolph Jones will NOT be back.
Time to move on, dude. :-)
By JerseyGil
November 22, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
oh..oh…Mike Hampton was release in the second inning…he only pitch one inning…i hope this was not a bad news.
By AJK
November 22, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
DOB:
I’ve read that the Reds may try to move Josh Hamilton - he seems like he’d be a great, cheap option for the Braves, one that could move into a platoon with Diaz in LF once Schafer is ready. Have you heard any scuttlebut about the Braves being interested?
By Steve McP
November 22, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
Oh Oh - Is Hampton injured - my Spanish is very poor but he seems to have been pulled after one inning
By chrisklob
November 22, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil,, did he come out to start the second inning and decide he couldn’t go, or did they send someone out to replace him at the top of the second?
I think DOB said he was supposed to go 2 or 3 innings. Did he throw a lot of pitches in that inning?
By JerseyGil
November 22, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
i don’t know i been look the online game box score and they not show the count…i don’t think he came out for the second.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 22, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
While the Braves won’t replace Andruws production per say , having a full season of Teixeira and Escobar along with the expected platoon of Diaz/B.Jones in LF should be more than adequate when it comes to run production and RBI’s.
What is really critical is the need to make sure that the Braves have solid to above average defensive ability in CF.
I believe that the rotation and bullpen will be a source of strength. Back that up with great defense , solid offense and the results will be very good.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 22, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
JJMB,
Your point … ?
By NLBF
November 22, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
DOB.I’M SO HAPPY FOR THE BRAVES TO FINALY HAVE TOM TRIFFIC BACK FOR NOT ONLY YOU BUT ALL OF THE OTHER LOST BRAVES FANS.I HOPE WHEN HE GETS SHELLED FOR 10 TO 12 RUNS BEFORE GETTING THE SECOND OUT IN THE 1st INNING,ALL OF HIS SUPPORTERS STAND UP AND BOO HIS BUTT RIGHT BACK TO N.Y. OR ANY PLACE ELSE BUT ATLANTA.OH BY THE WAY DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE THE DEAL THE ANGELS GAVE TORRI HUNTER 90 MILLION FOR FIVE YEARS? WITH TOM THE TRADIOR’S 8MIL, THIS YEAR AND YOU JUST KNOW HES GOOD FOR AT LEAST 2 MORE, THATS ABOUT HALF OF HUNTERS CONTRACT PLUS TWO MORE YEARS FROM A YOUNG PLAYER,WHO DO’ES NOT HAVE TO LIVE ON PAST GLORY.
By chris
November 22, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
Well, if Hampton’s arm did explode, at least it happened early.
By JerseyGil
November 22, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this
Well guys since hampton is out this all for me tonight…good night everyone….Hope tomorrow we have a good news about Hampton.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 22, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
How important is defense ? Well , lets go back to 1990. Glavine , Smoltz , Avery and Liebrandt combined to go 36-45.
The pitching was in place but Schuerholz recognized the need to upgrade the defense. He brought in Pendleton at 3B , Bream at 1B , Belliard at SS and Nixon in CF.
Glavine , Smoltz , Avery and Liebrandt went 67-45 during the following 1991 worst to first run.
The offense scored 67 more runs in 1991 but it was the markedly improved defense that helped the pitching the most.
While the mantra of pitching and defense may sound like cookie cutter strategy. It’s just sound , fundamental , hard nosed baseball being played the right way.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
November 22, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
I’m going to reiterate what I have been saying about getting another starter. You can’t count on Hampton. The Braves need another solid starter even if its the likes of Sean Marshall or Matt Cain. I would prefer a Carlos Silva or Matt Garza.
By JJMB
November 22, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
BFIR, have you ever read anything that DOB wrote that didn’t tow the company line?
By Bravo Nam
November 22, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this
I know the Braves have said they’re not after any more arms, but if this is the case, I think they’ve missed the boat on their assessment of things. For this year…fine…but they need to be looking at two to three years time when Smoltz, Glavine and Hampton will all be gone. Now is the time to trade for a young ace- let him benefit from the knowledge and experience of the “old guys”- so that in two to three years time we have a good arm to slot in behind Hudson.
By Logan23
November 22, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil
Looks like it was one and done for Hamptom. I doubt they would push him in his first outing. If there was talk of him going more than one inning it would be predicated on how he felt. If he experienced any real discomfort during the inning he would have come out immediately I’m guessing that “Cambio de picher por los Mayos sale: Mike Hamptom y entra: Mario Mendoza.” translates into Hampton out replaced by Mendoza. Then again I flunked Spanish.
By fastasballs
November 22, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this
Well I guess Andruw isn’t going to the Angels. I’m sure Andruw will get a little action now since Hunter is off the market.
I’m with Coach on the importance of the defense. I’ll take a light hitting, speedy glove man for next season. The Braves potential rotation includes three contact guys, a ground ball pitcher. They play 81 home games in a spacious ballpark so good/great defense is needed.
Andruw’s production in 2007 was a product of the hitters in front of him as much as anything else. If he played for any other team with a average offense he would have 20-30 fewer RBI’s than he ended up with. In reality a 120-140 RBI season is what Andruw would have put up had he hit his usual .260 or so with RISP.
The team’s production shouldn’t decrease even with a light hitting center fielder. One reason is Tex will be here a full season. Chipper & whoever is following Tex in the order will get better pitches to hit. Also Frenchy & McCann will probably increase production as well. I worry more about Escobar having a rough 2nd season & not being able to match Edgar’s production more than I worry about Andruw’s production.
By flange1
November 22, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
Evening All,
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
JJMB
What is your problem? Who is the company? DOB works for the AJC not the Braves…
BLAH BLAH BLAH…
DOB, we will miss AJ on offense and defense. He was (is) a great player. But I agree it is time to move on. I would love to have Andruw for a 1 year contract at 8-10 million. BUT IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.
Both parties need to move on. Andruw needs a new fresh start and the Baves have to prepare for the future..
We need a RH CF that can platoon with Blanco and the new guy….
DOB,
I am thankful for this blog. It makes my day, every day better, and it is all because of your input. Thanks!
Happy T-day all!
By Montabello
November 22, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this
According to the Mexican League web site. Hampton only pitched 1 inning(1 K and a hit).
can you confirm what happened DOB???
By AuburnBrave
November 22, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this
I wonder with Torii Hunter with the Angels will that make Chone Figgins that much more expendable, and will the Braves pursue him more aggressively or stand pat with the prospects they have now, since Josh Anderson is a similar type player to Figgins.
By mr baseball
November 23, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this
Hopefully, DOB is correct that there are still moves to be made. Given the recent track record of the ex-GM at building a bench & a bullpen, there isn’t much way the new guy can do much worse in those areas. Is there?
Bullpen: Wickman & Paronto are already gone, Dotel & Mahay are soon to follow (2 more 15-minute acquisitions from our Hall of Fame ex-GM), and Gonzalez is unlikely to contribute much of anything in ‘08 (another Schuerholz success). What’s still left is pretty good, although it would be nice to add a more proven lefty than Ring. Not holding my breath.
Bench: The Braves need a backup middle infielder; a RH hitting CF who can at least split time there; and a Ward/Sweeney/Anderson type PH would be nice. None of those spots will either break the bank or require plenty of talent to acquire. We’ll see if Wren can actually upgrade the team somewhere other than the rotation.
Both the Phillies & Mets have more questions to answer during the off-season than the Braves. The Marlins are seemingly headed in the wrong direction. The division is there for the taking next year. It would be nice to think that the Braves are going to reclaim their status as the team to beat, but I see no reason yet to believe that.
Adding a 42-year-old soft tossing lefty to a rotation with another over-40 arm and one that hasn’t thrown a pitch in 2 years does not exactly inspire great confidence for those of us not heavily into nostalgia. It’s way too early to judge the new GM, but it looks like he’s not afraid to wheel and deal a little. Hope he has more success than his overrated predecessor had during his last decade on the job.
By Kentavo
November 23, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this
I wouldn’t care if they had Pete Incaviglia in CF if they went out and got another proven starter. It wouldn’t matter = but counting on anything from Hampton is a big mistake. I’m not blaming him - it’s the brass I’m peeved at. I”m not against the Glavine signing, I just think that shouldn’t be the end of the story. What about Jeff Weaver?
By Matthew, Dad to Walter
November 23, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this
Hello denizens, long time no blog for this preacher boy.
The full-time seminary gig is very time-consuming, and pastoring a church as well as being a full-time husband and dad has made blogging nearly impossible. So bear with me while I catch up.
JJS, Carolina Lady, Journalist Bob, and Lew, as well as all the other bloggers- I hope you all have had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I ate way too much, watched too much football, and got far too little work done. A pretty good day all in all!
DOB Thanks for keeping us up to date. I haven’t been able to post, but I have read faithfully throughout the offseason. Keep up the good work.
Tom Glavine Welcome back! I hate that it has taken so long, but I hold no grudges and like the dad to the prodigal, I welcome you back to the Braves fold!
Edgar Renteria The Braves Nation salutes you and wishes you nothing but the best in the Motor City. Your two years were worthy of team MVP honors both years IMHO and you played the game in a classy and selfless way. Major kudos! Hopefully JJ and Gorky prove to be worth losing your production and leadership.
Andruw Jones Thanks for ten years of Hall of Fame defense. We will miss your smile and highlight reel catches. If only you had a different agent…
Now, a quick question. I know that payroll is going up and it is hard to keep up with all of the moves, but according to FOXSports.com the Braves’ payroll stands at $93.455 million, and Edgar Renteria is not listed on the roster. I have tried to tally up the numbers as they stand, not allowing for the arbitration raises due to some of our players. Can someone check these numbers?
Subtracting Andruw, Dotel, R. Cormier (don’t know why, but he’s listed), Mahay, Franco, Woodward, Sturtze, Paranto, and Orr, I see a reduction of our payroll to $67.135 million. Add in Glavine and the total rises to $75.135 million. I know that my list isn’t exhaustive, so can someone give me an idea of about where we stand?
The list I used is found at http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/teamSalary?categoryId=71601
Thanks and GO BRAVES!
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this
Mike you have no idea where Brandon Jones is “penciled in.”
Braves don’t have him “penciled in” to play behind Diaz. They have him coming to spring training to compete for a job. If he’s ready, he’ll play. Whether that’s a platoon or a primary job, who knows? Lot of things can happen, which they do every single year. Things happen. Guys get hurt. Guys get traded. Guys stink in spring, etc.
If he’s ready, he’ll platoon or maybe even be the primary guy, for all you and I know. He’s NOT penciled in to play behind Diaz.
As for Lillibridge, you’re wrong there, too. A “few years” before he plays? Again, things happen. Kelly could stink in his second year at 2B. He could regress, as he did defensively late in the year. Or he could take off and have an exceptional year. The other CF options might not be ready and Lillibridge might play so well in spring that they want his bat on the team. Escobar might get hurt. You have no idea. I have no idea.
But it won’t be a “few years” before Lillibridge plays here. He’d be traded berore that, and he’d be traded for a lot more than being one of three players in a trade for a guy who’s had a half season in the majors and not played a full season of pro ball since he was drafted in 1999, I can say with a fair degree of certainty.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this
Don’t know about Hampton tonight. No answer from Braves folks I texted and e-mailed (not surprising; it’s Thanksgiving night, they’re off and with family).
Don’t know of any Braves interest so far in Johnson, because I’m told they’re not even aware he’s available, if he is at all (we’ve only heard he might be from one rumor in one report, remember)….
Who is JJMB? On second thought, nevermind.
Whatever, friend. Get your Braves news elsewhere, if you don’t like it here. I couldn’t care less how you feel about what I write. Seriously.
By Chop Chop
November 23, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this
Hudson’s salary is going to be more than doubled next year (up from $6 million to $13 million). Teixeira is up for arbitration. He’ll probably get $12-$14 million (let’s call it $13 million) next season. That’s a significant jump for the Braves’ payroll, especially because they didn’t pay Tex all of that $9 million last year. I don’t know what the prorated number was for Tex, but my guess is that the Braves will be paying him around $10 million (maybe DOB could find out how much the Braves actually paid Tex after the trade) more this year than last. Add that to Huddy’s raise and you’ve got $17 million added to the payroll right there. In addition, Smoltz’s salary is going up from $8 million to $14 million this year. So, if you add that up, that’s $23 million added to the payroll for ‘08. Mike Gonzalez will have to get a deal done. I don’t see how he could get more money, but who knows? Soriano also needs a new contract. His pay will go up a bit.
It seems to me that the significant payroll hike for the Braves is almost exclusively going to come from the re-signing of players and normal salary escalations. They traded Renteria and won’t re-sign Andruw so they can do these other deals without breaking the bank. Since he’s probably going to be the main free agent acquisition, the Braves are really counting on Glavine to come through next year. We’ll see if the strategy works.
(If the numbers are all wrong, I apologize. Tryptophan is wreaking havoc. Happy Thanksgiving!)
Here’s another site with contracts:
Cot’s Baseball Contracts
It seems like it’s pretty up-to-date.
By Chop Chop
November 23, 2007 1:10 AM | Link to this
That was for you, Matthew, Dad to Walter. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. I will now go pass out like I should have done a few hours ago.
By Diamondback.Mac
November 23, 2007 1:15 AM | Link to this
Beleieve it or not!! Tonight, in a bar in Brewton, AL I met a diehard braves fan from Savannah who doesn’t like Chipper Jones. Needless to say, I didn’t ask her to dance.
By BossLady
November 23, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this
I would love to have Andruw back with the Braves. See, Boras has got him confused about his value. He owes the Braves and until—he— realizes that he won’t be able to think straight.
Glavine is worth his weight so we can carry him for the season. If Andruw backed up Glavine we could win.
Andruw is verrrrry important to pitchers. They can get a win if he is in CF.
I don’t want Andruw to leave since he has such a beautiful family. He does not need to live on the road no more than Tommy had to live on the road.
Although he is just 30 and still able to cover center I wish Boras well just as he did in New York (A rod)
I love to love you baby,love to love you baby love to love.
By BossLady
November 23, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this
DOB, do you think the Braves are trying to wait to see if any offers come in for Andruw that they can match?
If everyobw comes to their senses then they will realize that behind Tommy and Chuck— Andruw is the best. They woud not give up runs or have big innings against them.
This show stinks to high for me. I tried to keep my temper about the no signing of Andrus but if we are going to pitch the likes of them then we need Andrus more, more, moe, more, more and more,
By BossLady
November 23, 2007 1:44 AM | Link to this
Sorry about the typos, my hands are tired of COOKING.
By BossLady
November 23, 2007 1:44 AM | Link to this
Sorry about the typos, my hands are tired of COOKING.
By tony
November 23, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this
How many african americans will start for this team next season and y didn’t we sign Torii Hunter to replace AJ. We won our first world series with african american athletes on this team so why can’t we do the same today.(David Justice)(Ron Gant)(Marquis Grissom)and(Fred McGriff).
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this
chislob,
maybe i should of had some knob creek last night, i was just howling at the moon.
i think i can trump everyones turkey day. had one of FATT MATS fried turkeys today, the best. i am very lucky to call him a friend. WES JAMES is fat matts brother-in-law, and he runs that great rib shack, he always cooks a great meal for all the penn st. fans and other friends. hope all is well for everyone on this great holiday, cant beat turkey great wine and friends. sorry if i howled at the moon too long last night.
By tony
November 23, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this
Forgot, Gant didn’t play in 95.
By Chris
November 23, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this
aww man a part of me was hoping that andruw would somehow return….
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 1:56 AM | Link to this
boss lady,
i to love andruw but i think he is long gone. there is a big difference between wealth and riches. i think the brave are the latter of the two.
By BossLady
November 23, 2007 1:58 AM | Link to this
Sorry about the typos in the earlier blogs. My hands are stiff.
Being a Woman and blogging is tough!
I cooked, Turkey, Ham, Buffalo Wings.
I cooked with potatoe salad, collard greens and with turnips, green beans and field peas,& rice. Fried green tomatoes, mac & cheese. Stuffing and dressing were a choice with cranberries and cucumber salad.
You men just do not know!!!!!!
I am outta here, see you next week.
I wish Tommy & Andruw the best.
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 2:09 AM | Link to this
tony,
the pool contiues to dry up like lake lanier. just not that many african americans that play baseball anymore. one of my all time favorite braves was rowland office, claudell washington, gant, and of course justice (the guy always had the flare for dramatics)
that being said, the braves have zero racisim in their organization. its like i said the pool is shrinking. like it or not, this organization will always try to get the best player regardless of color. TONY i hope you feel the same.
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 2:14 AM | Link to this
boss lady,
i wish i could of had a couple of those fried green tomatos. love those things.
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 2:24 AM | Link to this
DOB,
while in K.C stop by friends bar called PEANUTS. just ask for grant jordan he just might actually give you one on the house. he is the biggest KU fan this side of jacque vaughn.
called me on wed. and already said K.C is crazy. who would of thought that mizzou and ku would play HUGE game in NOV. not basketball
By Ross
November 23, 2007 2:33 AM | Link to this
Miss Andruw’s OFFENSE? That is crazy! What I will NOT miss is watching Andruw whiff at those low-outside pitches he tries to pull, usually with someone on second or third, and that goofy grin he gets when he’s just been made to look like a complete fool at the plate. He had no competitive fire at all. He was too lazy to run out a grounder.
His run production came off no-name pitchers usually, in non-critical situations. When faced with a real arm, in game-critical situations, he was guaranteed to let you down.
I am just glad I don’t have to see that stupid grin any more.
-drl
By UGA75
November 23, 2007 2:34 AM | Link to this
Thanks for some baseball today, it is always on our mind in Atlanta since it is the only team we have a professional franchise in (*Hockey isn’t really a sport, is it). The Braves will pick up a CF project and he will succeed, but no one will play CF like Andruw
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 2:42 AM | Link to this
ross,
you are wrong about andruw. he always played hard. sometimes without great results, but he always left it on the field. if francoeur has half of the career that #25 HAD consider us lucky.
By NOLIE
November 23, 2007 3:07 AM | Link to this
JJMB have you ever read anything that DOB wrote that didn’t tow the company line?
THE BRAVES ARE THE SOURCE OF HIS INFO FOR THE GREATEST PART WHAT ELSE WOULD HAPPEN? NO DISRESPECT INTENDED BUT DAVE OR BOWMAN ETC ARE NOT TRAINED SCOUTS OR TALENT EVALUATORS. THEY PRETTY MUCH RELY ON EVALUATIONS FROM THEIR SOURCES WHICH ARE THE BRAVES CONTACTS FOR THE MOST PART. IT SEEMS THAT DAVE AT LEAST MAKES SOME EFFORT TO TALK TO OTHER CLUBS, BUT HIS INFO IS BOUND TO HAVE A BRAVES’ SKEW. EVEN SO I APPRECIATE THAT HE TAKES THE TIME TO WORK THIS BLOG WHICH MANY OTHER WRITERS DO NOT DO.AND IF HE WAS TOO CONTRARY TOO OFTEN HE WOULD LIKELY LOSE SOME OF HIS SOURCES AND BE OF LESS VALUE TO AJC AND ESPECIALLY THIS BLOG. I NEVER RELY MUCH ON THE BRAVES’ STATED EVALUATIONS OF THEIR PROSPECTS ANYWAY. BESIDES THE NATURAL TENDENCY TO PREACH THE FAITH SO TO SPEAK, THEY HAVE THE REP OF HYPING THEIR PROSPECTS A LITTLE MORE THAN MANY OTHER TEAMS. THIS MAKES SENSE SINCE THEY ARE NOT REALLY A FREE AGENT ORIENTED CLUB, BUT TRADE PROSPECTS FOR TEAM IMPROVEMENTS. ENJOY WHAT IS HERE FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH AND LOOK ELSEWHERE A BIT FOR A BROADER VIEW OF PROSPECTS. AT LEAST THAT IS MY TAKE ON IT.
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 3:12 AM | Link to this
tony I think everyone including the Braves wish they had more African American players. To be honest, from a financial and popularity standpoint, it is pretty darn neglectful in a city with such a HUGE potential African American fan base not to have any black starters.
But it would also be neglectful to get black players for the sake of it. The Braves try to do things that make sense financially and from a baseball performance standpoint. Before accusing the Braves of racism, review the list of quality African American ballplayers first and consider why they are not Braves.
prince fielder, not available
ryan howard, not available
derrek lee, not available
curtis granderson, not available
b.j. upton, not available
jimmy rollins, not available
dmitri young, available at a risky cost because of baggage
junior griffey, available but risky because of contract and injury
barry bonds, available but……
chone figgins, perhaps available but perhaps too pricey in terms of how much talent the Braves would have to trade to get chone
frank thomas, perhaps available but where would the braves play him?
robinson cano, not available
derek jeter, not available
gary sheffield, not available at the right price
torii hunter - available but that was an extremely foolish contract the angels signed for a 32 year old who does not consistently put up the kind of stats which justify that contract
carl crawford - perhaps available but the rays have been notoriously unreasonable in their trade demands - most braves fans would die to have him playing in the outfield for the braves
orlando hudson - perhaps available but where do you play him and why would you pay him what he makes when you can get similar production at a cheaper cost with kelly johnson? has better defense but basically makes 10x as much as KJ. he’s not 10x better than kelly
brandon phillips - was a big time bust when the braves could have brought him on and is not all that available now that he has had surprisingly good production at a low cost for the reds
rickie weeks - has not been all that available since he was one of the young homegrown pieces the brewers were building around. his stats have not been better than what giles and KJ were producing.
jermaine dye - except for one career year, his stats have been about as good as frenchy but he makes about 20x as much as frenchy and would not be the box office draw frenchy is
randy winn - perhaps available and might be a good option for the braves in center. but do you want to pay him what he makes and give up the talent you would have to give up to get him?
kenny lofton - probably should be the centerfielder next season but, ya know, been there, done that, and kenny and bobby hate each other.
chris young - not available
mike cameron - available, lives here, braves probably wanted him but he is suspended for the first 25 games next season
gary mathews - great fielding defensive scrub that the braves once cut like about half the league did until he had a steroid enhanced surge in offensive production. now he is grossly overpaid.
bill hall - has not previously been available - might be now available - but on the verge of making too much money for someone who is not the greatest hitter, has had inconsistent power, has declining stolen bases and defensively is a jack of all positions but a master of none
delmon young - great talent that may be available at a very hefty price that comes with his considerable baggage
elijiah dukes - see delmon young
coco crisp - maybe, maybe, maybe
vernon wells - not available and certainly not at that price
juan pierre - gimme a break
corey patterson - useless talent until he learns to get himself on base
ray durham - done. kaput.
c.c. sabathia - not available
dontrelle willis - sorta available but at a hefty price in terms of talent and money for a fella with declining performance
ian snell - perhaps available at a very expensive cost in what you will have to trade away
shannon stewart - in serious decline
By Tony C.
November 23, 2007 4:32 AM | Link to this
‘druw was a rally-killer….admit it
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 23, 2007 5:20 AM | Link to this
Good morning all, Matthew, Dad to Walter Good to see you back. You are the second prodigal son to return tonight.
I guess we will hear something definitive about Mike Hampton by the weekend. At least looking at the line ups I get a sense the talent level is equal to at least Triple A. It also appears that the Braves are still interested in keeping Doug Clark around.
It spring training is still a good bit away so I shall not worry too much about the search for a center fielder until then. The problem many on the blog have is name recognition. There are dozens of players who are waiting to be discovered but because they are not featured on ESPN every night, you don’t think they can play.
tony Get a life man…… That crap you are espousing is as bad as some of the jerks who think there are too many black players in the NFL. If race is your determining factor as to who you can support then you are not a true sports fan and you are a bigot. Take that racist tripe somewhere else.
By reddawg
November 23, 2007 5:40 AM | Link to this
Andruw was fun, Andruw was cute. But he never understood it was a team game. We need players like Andruw like Custer needed more Indians. As Mr Cook once said about George Allen; “I would rather lose without him than win with him”.
Watching that sickening smirk as he walked back to the dugout after striking out will be something I will gladly do without.
By TommyP
November 23, 2007 7:10 AM | Link to this
Piniero went 6-4 with a 3.96 ERA as a starter for the Cardinals. He’s not as bad a signing as the other guys you mentioned, especially if his contract is a 3 year deal. (I thought it was two years)
But to think some on here could make any argument that Kyle Lohse would be a good signing….that guy is brutal. At any cost. Brutal.
By ncscoots
November 23, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this
Up early, since I couldn’t wait to gnaw on a leftover turkey leg (one of the great joys of modern life). MIght even fight some of the shopping crowd, if I can scare up the gumption…
No, I don’t think the Braves should have offered AJ the mondo contract he wanted, but those who dismiss his offense aren’t right, either. The mistake made by most of the folks of that persuasion is that the Braves aren’t trying to replace the offense he produced last year; they are trying to replace what he would have done THIS year. Big diff.
If AJ is truly in decline, then your no-lumber glove in CF represents no loss. But, if he returns to his career norms in 2008, the Braves are missing a lot. As for as Tex replacing that offense, then who has replaced LaRoche’s offense from 2006?
In any event, the loss of Edgar and Andruw represents a subtraction, despite the fact that the Braves get plus offense from C and 2B. There’s still a run-production black hole in LF (previously masked by AJ’s production), and CF now looks to be more of the same.
The offense, as now projected, won’t be woeful, but it won’t be as strong as 2006 and 2007 unless the planets align in absolute perfection (Brandon Jones has a great rookie year, Heap gets back to .300, Escobar doesn’t regress, KJ continues his good work, Frenchy puts back some power, Chipper and Tex don’t get hurt).
So, even if you think AJ shouldn’t be on the the squad this year (and I’d agree), dismissing the loss of his bat as inconsequential would be a mistake.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this
Hampton one inning, one hit, one K.
Frank Wren just told me (by text message) when I asked if any problem because only went 1 inning, he said that was the plan for Hampton, to go one inning, then two next start, then three….
(I know they’d said a few weeks back that he wanted to be ready to go two or three innings in first start, but only thing I can tell you is, they must’ve thought better of that. After all, it is his first time in any competitive situation whatsoever in over a year (since very brief appearance in instructional league 2006).
OK, gotta finish packing and get to airport.
Oh, and Bosslady, one more time: Andruw not coming back in 2008.
By Billy
November 23, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this
I haven’t heard of anyone wanting to trade Chuck James. That would be a mistake anyway.
By Michael in Brooklyn
November 23, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this
Hi, all:
Hampton’s line from last night…
1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, O BB, 1 K
You can look up winter league statistics pretty easily on milb.com. I typed Hampton’s name into the name field and got the above info.
By T-bone
November 23, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this
Repeat after me. “We don’t need a centerfielder.” We need another starting pitcher. DOB is right. Smoltz and Glavine are over 40, Hampton is iffy, and the youngsters are unproven. Even Hudson isn’t the pitcher he was in Oakland. If the starts line up correctly, this rotation could get us to the World Series. But they may not. It is time for Wren to make one more move for a starting pitcher.
By RIP
November 23, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this
Why don’t they go find Steve Avery and trade for Maddux. They can also bring back Justice. TP is already on the bench and Gant is right there doing TV. These moves will probably put the Braves behind the Marlins this year. These roster changes still don’t allow the team to compete with the Mets or Phillies. That great pitching era is over. This is a hitters game. The Braves are going to be even worse with bot getting Chipper or Tex any help.
By Michael in Brooklyn
November 23, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this
One more thing… While we all get exercised about what a solid prospect Brandon Jones is (and I believe he is), his line this year in the Mexican league is .311/.403/.422. Gregor Blanco (who is not a long-term answer, but will be cheap and plays good defense) is hitting .317/.425/.463 in 123 Venezuelan Winter League at bats. Look up Blanco’s career minor league statistics, then look up Co-Co Crisp’s numbers over the last two years, in ‘hitter-friendly’ Fenway. If the idea is to have a good CF stopgap who won’t kill you offensively, why pay Crisp’s salary when you’ve got Blanco, or potentially Anderson or Lillibridge (if he comes to spring and hits the cover off the ball)? By next Spring, it will be Jordan Schafer’s world. And if Schafer falters, Coco Crisp certainly won’t be the answer.
By Salty
November 23, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
DOB Enjoy…good luck! I’ll be a JayHawk for a day…and flipping between the game and my Tigers chasin’ chickins! Hoping for a double-header sweep!
Mornin’, Scoots…scaring up gumption? Black Friday ain’t for me! Good luck if you go…don’t forget a first-aid kit!!!!
By JC FROM UT
November 23, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this
Frank Wren has done a great job being very aggressive and proactive in getting done what needs to be done before the actual winter meetings. I would like to see him trade Lance Cormier to the Cubs for Will Ohman. Cormier has no future with the Braves. The Cubs, I think would make this move. Lou Pinella had a run in with Ohman late last season and would probably be willing to move him.
By Nelson
November 23, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
David O’B: With all respect, we are not going to miss Andruw’s offensive at all, remember now we have Texeira since game one!, so check what he has done since June 2006 and compare to Andruw’ number! Yes Andruw had good RBI’s numbers but he was hitting clean-up during that period of time, I don’t have the number but I’m almost sure he had runners in scoring position about 75-80% of the time!. If you go fishing in a river crowded of fishes, for sure you’re going to get some , even if you are a bad fisherman! I belive the reason the Braves gave-up on him was because his reluctance to hit the opposite way, lack of dicipline at home plate and listen to Terry Pendelton advises. Aplayer whit that kind of attitude do not the Team at all, is a rotten apple in a bag. My believe what this team needs is a solid no.3 starter, but it is toohard to find, nobody will give you one, because tht’s exactly what everybody needs, lets prey for Hamptons recovery or either JO-Jo Reyes or chuckie better season with Glavine influence!. What we need is a good back-up catcher for Mc Cann, not the dumbs Bobby use to bring, the guy who played the last two o three games showed fine defensive an offense. Another thing we need is a plan B just in case Chipper is not healthy, but if we have a kind of season he had last year (for me one of his best performances of all time!) this team will rock no matter who plays center field!, the money they are planning to use in that use it to sign Texeira, like Glavine he is happy to play for the Braves. This team has plenty local talent and players who love to play here!
By Colorado Bulldog
November 23, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this
Braveheart I think you left off Royce Clayton. Though old could be a good pickup as back up SS and bat off the bench. I believe he is a FA though maybe Redsox will bring him back.
I’d trade Chuck James in a heartbeat… but I doubt any tem would want him unless their stafium is so huge. Who gives up more long balls than him?
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
T-bone , your 8:42 post is just about the most retarded comment I’ve read in quit some time.
Frank Wren and Bobby Cox have made it known , THEY ARE NOT SHOPPING FOR ANOTHER STARTER.
You say Hudson isn’t the pitcher he was in Oakland ??? What , did you just wake up from a two year coma , Hudson had a fantastic season in 2007 (16-10 / 3.33 ERA with 25 quality starts) and it compares favorably with any season he had in Oakland.
The CF question is still a question and YES the Braves are still shopping for a veteran CF.
Repeat after me , T-bone , lay off the eggnog !
By Efrim
November 23, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
Hunter for 5 years and 80 million is just plain stupid. He just isn’t that good.
Even worse, Scott Linebrink just got a a 4 year 19 million dollar deal.
Awful.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Boss Lady , OMG ! I’m in love. Collard Greens , buffalo wing and fried green tomatoes as part of your thanksgiving extravaganza.
My wife doesn’t cook southern and I miss it. Your making me home sick , LOL !
I’m a Georgia boy living in North Dakota and every time we visit back home , when we cross the state line into Georgia I want to get out and kiss the ground.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 23, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
Coach I know how you feel, my first wife was from Detroit and for our first dinner she fixed a spinach casserole. Had it not been for her other ample attributes I would have quit the marriage then and there.
I am turnip greens kind of guy myself.
Now……. I believe this blog suffers from some type of bi polar disorder. First people say we need to trade for a front line starting pitcher and then suggest we trade a front line starting pitcher to get one. DUH…….
By flange1
November 23, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
Hey Coach,
Just got back from a friend’s wedding in Columbus, GA. The wedding was outside at teh River Walk, lost of fun.
Got to eat some good Columbus bar-b-que as well. Everyone wanted to go to Country’s and it was godd, but I had to slip over to Macon Road BBQ for the REAL deal.
Thought you might like a little info from back home!
By WarParty
November 23, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
DOB, excellent stuff and a most inciteful interview with Smoltzie. I thought it interesting that Smoltz is looking for the Braves to rotate in 6 starters with the 6th, I surmise, being a spot starter to relieve the strain on the others.
Given the cash restraints and being realistic, I’m wondering if the Braves still have the juice to land another veteran starter to go with what’s on hand?
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
Efrim , I totally agree. Hunter was overpaid and this was a thanksgiving shocker by the Angels. One thing is for certain , this might be the tipping point that puts Johan Santana on the trade market for sure.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this
Good Morning…Guys please did anyone saw the press conference of the introduce of Glavine…Ours GM said that he is done in the trade market, he said if they come to his lap a good trade he problaly considere.We are ok we ours team. ESPN Jason Stark said that the Braves right now without a center field is the Team to beat in NL East, Phillys not have the bargain ship to include a big free agen star, the mets the same thing. The braves improve the Starting rotation and the moral of the team with Glavine in….i take anytime his 13 win last year.
By Jersey Guy
November 23, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
Don’t count on Glavine winning any big games for the braves. He’s still able to win games against young inexperienced teams but that’s it.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
Flange , while your at it. You could raid Dunkin Donuts and send me a dozen chocolate cream filled. or just eat’em yourself ! Do they still have the the stage set up for a band and music at the Macon Road BBQ ?
By dadgum
November 23, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
First, DOB, kudos on Tangled Up in Blue above. Hard to find any song written any better than that especially the verse beginning “and she opened up a book of poems”. Simply masterful.
Anyway, as to the Braves I think you are giving Andruw Jones way too much credit. Even if he gets back to hitting .250 say with around 20 dingers that doesn’t give me or many a good feeling from a power spot like CF. Cutting down on the K’s and good RISP average would be a better feeling.
All that wear and tear is taking a toll on Andruw and not just because of last year’s number as you pointed out. Andruw may well rise back up with a new team but doubtful,very doubtful, he will ever perform to the level worthy of $10 mil plus let alone $15 mil plus. Andruw will never, ever, play again for the Braves unles it is at something less than $10 mil a year.
The young players coming up will have their chance. My thought is they will more than fill in nicely and put up better numbers than Andruw without much (if any) drop off in defense. The Braves may indeed sign a stop-gap veteran to play CF. I wouldn’t I can tell you that.
Rock on…..appreciating Rosanne Cash.
By Jersey Guy
November 23, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
ESPN also had the braves winning the division last year after the braves acquired Texiera and Dotel. So much on relying on ESPN for predictions.
By flange1
November 23, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
I can’t believe the salaries that Hunter and Linebrink received either.
Makes you wonder what Mahay and AJ will get.
Makes the Glavine deal look even better.
Wonder if this means Tex will get $22 million for 6-7 years.
I guess baseball economics just changed again.
By AJ 25
November 23, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this
I knew that lovable hack DOB would come through for me. I was going to go to him and have him put together some of his famous selective stats to prove how good I was. I knew that if he tried hard enough he would make me look like an MVP. He’s the best there is at twisting stats to make a point.
Anyway, Boras is thrilled DOB came through for us. Now I’m certain I will get a deal very close to what A Rod got from the Yankees.
I just may tell Boras to get me to a National League team so that I can haunt the Braves and all their negative fans on a regular basis. Home Boy and Home Boy Jr will rue the day.
By Jersey Guy
November 23, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
Johan Santana to the Mets anyone?
By ncgary
November 23, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
why not offer cj + cormier + a prospect or yates 4 pppeavey with smoltz and peavey tutoring jjj you get 3 flame throwers for late october. peavey wants to play here and san diego only controls him for 1 yr, they might even take less, with peavey lAte october is legit!!!
By flange1
November 23, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Hey Coach,
Yes, the bandstand is still there. On weekends they have a bluegrass band that plays. Couple of my friends do a little picking and grinning.
BBQ is good and the southern veggies are out of this world.
Sometimes I miss Columbus!
By Dan
November 23, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Any thoughts to why the White Sox decided OC was worth Garland but Renteria wasn’t? Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself, and in the long run it could be great to have Jurrjens and Gorkys, but I feel like the Braves could have made a run at the World Series if they were able to add Garland last year as well as Tex.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
Oh..Oh…Jersey Again Jersey…Get your news strait…ESPN Last year have the MOT to win the NL Division and to go to the end and win it all. And for you info Jason Stark is from Philadelphia. I never said he say to win the Division, he said the team to beat.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Jersey Guy The Mets have to give half of you team to get santana, and that include your GM…
By LivininAL
November 23, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
I see many referring to the fact that Glavin will help Chuck James. I hope James is receptive, I recall on several occasions last year, stories of James being totally unaware of opposing players names, accomplishments,strengths etc.I think he needs to become a student of the game, to gain a measure of success for the Braves.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this
Hey Guys…Hampton last night has a discomfort in one of his leg, according to a report from the Pacific League web side…for those they read spanish go to or google “Liga beisbol del Pacifico” and they have the article about the game last night.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
Hampton tuvo una breve presentación con los Mayos y en la única entrada que tuvo de trabajo mostró su calidad retirando en cuatro hombres con un hit y un ponche el cual obtuvo frente al también ex bigleaguer Jolbert Cabrera.
Para la segunda entrada Hampton ya no salió a lanzar debido a una molestia en una de sus piernas dejando su sitio a Mario Mendoza Jr. quién de ahí en adelante tomó las riendas del juego enfrentando a los bateadores Algodoneros entre quienes ya se contaba el refuerzo extranjero Derrick White.
Here is the Article…
By Greg in TN
November 23, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
Morning denizens…
It was a brief outing last night for Mike Hampton, however it was also planned that way. Thanks for the clarification from FW, DOB. It’s prudent to take things slow and easy with Hampton to get back into the flow of game action and see how the arm holds up.
Meanwhile there’s lots of other good things going on in winter ball, last week, Manny Acosta picked up two saves in three appearances this week in Obregon, Jeff Bennett tossed six shut-out innings for Tiburones in Venezuela this past Saturday while his Venezuelan and fellow Braves franchise teammate Gregor Blanco is hitting .310, Bryan Pena is hitting .326 with 6 RBIs in his last ten games in the Dominican.
It’s not all completely good news from down south. Francisley Bueno surrendered six runs on 11 hits over 7 1/3 last week in the Dominican, Willy Aybar’s average has dropped to .265 and is 2 for his last 12 as of last week.
I agree with the sentiment that the Angels overpaid for Torii Hunter. $90 million over 5 years for a CF’er who I feel is solid, but not spectacular. Should be interesting to see how Andruw’s negotiations will proceed.
By jschneider
November 23, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Great blog as usual. I just wanted to ask how are u so sure Andruw is not coming back. I mean do they just not like him and not want him back at any price or what? It just seems wierd that theres not at least a remote chance they could get him for a discount or one year deal or something. Im just curious as to why theres at least no possiblilty for that.
By Jerry Garcia
November 23, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this
Check out the Jerry Garcia Band’s version of “Tangled up in Blue” on the self titled double cd live release. Even Dylan agrees it is the best version of that song.
DOB- you can support Andruw any way you want, but his average is pathetic and his run production typically came in meaningless situations. Point being, he is not worth anything near what the Braves paid him nor what some sucker team may pay him in the future.
2008 is going to be a mediocre season filled with curtain calls for Smoltz, Glavine, and Cox. Braves will market tickets based upon seeing these guys for the “last” time.
Ugh…………..
By GM
November 23, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
What production from Andruw? Last season he was simply a rally killer and certainly not a vlutch hitter. Last season’s production can be easily replaced and exceeded. As far as the rotation—It may be good enough to win the division but not dominant enough to win a World Series and that’s only if Smoltz’s arm holds up and the team finds lightening in a bottle with some of the young pitchers. Glavine, Hudson (you never know what you’ll get when he pitches and he is certainly very hittable), Hampton all question marks—-James send him to the bullpen as a long reliever. It should be intersting to see who finishes the season as the Braves 5 starters. By the way who is going to play 3rd when Chipper spends his obligatory time on the the DL? Have the Braves signed TEX to a long term contract? So far it looks like the Brvaes are still pinching pennies and not making the team stronger but it is the season of miracles so there is hope that many Braves will have career seasons, no one will visit the DL and CY Young will take the mound each day.
By wjones
November 23, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Without knowing the conversations between Andruw and his agent, one would think, hearing from what anonymous teams are saying about him, the book on him seens to be that he has been getting along on talent all of these years, has not been especially nutrition/fitness conscious, hasn’t spent a lot of time working out his weak spots, has lost a lot of speed, and is basically a “very old 30”. All this means that a lot of people, even those who might think a lot of him today, see him as a big risk for a long-term deal. Now could Andruw reverse this? Possibly. But he missed a big opportunity this year, not only with his (non)performance, but his unwillingness to adjust his game, his (lack of)fitness regimen, and his seemingly lackadaisical attitude. Whether all of these things are true of him or not, few can argue that this is the perception, and Andruw hasn’t done nearly enough to change people’s minds. Now as successful as Boras has been in the past at getting huge contracts for his players, wouldn’t you think he would have mentioned any of this to Andruw, even if he wouldn’t admit it publicly? Maybe he did, and Andruw ignored him, too.
By Jersey Guy
November 23, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this
Jersey Gil, Santana only has one year left on his contract. No team will give up half their team to get him unless they can sign him. Now economics takes over. Only a few teams can afford his asking price.
By Tyler
November 23, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
Don’t know if this makes any sense, but here goes.
Is there any likelihood that Andruw Jones took steroids? I mean, when you look at him when he first came up and compare that to his body type now, one has to wonder. I realize he gained a lot of weight-much of that probably from lack of exercise. But in all honesty, he did have a surge in power numbers a few years ago. And maybe his struggles last year weren’t simply from lack of discipline, but maybe after all the steroid allegations, he stopped taking them. Remember how Giambi looked when he stopped taking them? Andruw did look flat out silly a lot of last year.
Anyway, just a thought.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
Jersey Guy…you bring this issue yourself….exactly what you said it you can afford it…he asking $126 mills…if the Twin want to trade him they were asking the moon to get it…that what i said the Mut not have enough good prospect to get him.
By Zack
November 23, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
I have thought for the last several years that Andruw has been on roids, and his actions seem to prove this. The Mitchell report should be very interesting.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Andruw Jones was once a five tool player , but no more.
He had a cannon in CF , now it’s a pea shooter. He was at one time a base stealing threat , now he is station to station base runner.
A.J. has lost a step but still gets a great jump on fly balls due to his uncanny ability to read the ball off the bat and run to the right spot.
His unwillingness to use the whole field while loading deep in the batters box and trying to pull every fastball and slider thrown contributed greatly to his career worst numbers in the following three categories : .222 BA / .311 OBP / .413 SLG
He saw a steady diet of fastballs away and breaking balls in on his hands which reduced his HR and RBI numbers considerably.
2005 51 HR’s and 128 RBI
2006 41 HR’s and 129 RBI
2007 26 HR’s and 94 RBI
Andruw Jones has become an average slugger with diminished defensive skills in CF who hasn’t maintained his weight or physical conditioning.
He has played through injury year after year which is commendable , but it has obviously taken a physical toll on his body.
Any GM that sign’s him to a multi-year contract is taking a huge risk. Andruw is damaged goods in my book.
By chris
November 23, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this
Say what you will about Andruw — and wjones is exactly right about him — he was a great centerfielder till the end. People talk about his diminished fielding skills. Well, while his arm isn’t what it once was, it certainly isn’t a pea shooter. He got great jumps. I saw him up in Boston last summer, and he made an incredible play in left-center, stealing a double and making it look so easy nobody really noticed how great a play it was.
It’s the right move not to bring him back. He’s in steep decline. But boy, will he be missed out in the field. We’ll see.
By nOLIE
November 23, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones has become an average slugger with diminished defensive skills in CF who hasn’t maintained his weight or physical conditioning.
hmmm. he led the league in CF putouts over 400 and was voted as the Comeback Defensive Player of the Year in the Fielding Bible Awards. I’d say his defensive skills were pretty much in evidence last year
By Lew
November 23, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
JerseyGil-How you been, Dude? Your wife getting hard to live with now that the Phillies have won the division and two straight MVP awards? Does she really think the Phillies would be able to find more pitching?
Jersey Guy-And just who would the Mets give up to get Santana? Milledge, Pelfrey and Humber? Good luck on that. Besides, if the Mets really have all this money their fans think they have, why haven’t they spent any of it in two years? I hardly think that Moises (I can only play half a season) Alou, Luis Castillo and Johnny Estrada qualify as major expenditures.
By TexasBrave
November 23, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
Chris - Couldn’t agree more. My concern is not his offensive numbers being replaced, chrisklob your probably right that even a few of us on this blog could have driven in runs as many chances as he has had, but it is his defense. AJ made most plays he made look so effortlessly that we took his play in CF for granted.
Now I have not seen any of the young guys play, Gil in Mech perhaps you can shed some light, but I seriously doubt they will come close to matching what AJ did in the field. With that said IMO we have 4 out of 5 pitchers that pitch to contact. Meaning we are going to need a good defense to win games especially up the middle, SS, 2B and CF.
Whoever plays CF this year is either going to bat leadoff or 8th (most likely the latter). What we need most is defense.
By JB
November 23, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
DOB, did you ask about Hamilton?
By BamaBrave
November 23, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
LivininAL…I keep seeing the same hopeful comments about Glavine helping Chuck James too… And perhaps he can. Glavine has always had a gameplan, so I hope that professionalism will rub off. I’m sure coaches have tried to get James to use his legs more and not throw so upright, but James is a mystery to me. It’s a little late now to radically change someone’s delivery, but unless someone can get him to use his entire body, I just don’t think he’ll ever have the stamina to go more than 5 innings effectively.
By chris
November 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Right. I’m more concerned with getting someone who can catch the ball. This is perhaps the best hitting team since the Braves moved from Milwaukie. There’s no need to get a big bat for CF.
By D-Cider
November 23, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
hey, DOB, thanks for the Dylan posting. I remember when Blood on the Tracks was released and it was the only LP reviewed in that issue of the Rolling Stone (Back when I actually read the mag) and each reviewer offered a different review! HUGE LP, HUGE Song! shame Desire had to follow, which wasn’t a bad release, just couldn’t be compared with the previous one.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
Hey Lew I been cool, i was out computer problem..you know..i got this new notebook from acers..very cool…yes, my wife was so happy with the Phillys and JRo win the MVP…but like i said yesterday..”honey, not be to comformble because next year is Braves Year” ..What you think about hampton last night..can we count on him?
By 8808
November 23, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
Happy Thanksgiving DOB! Thanks for all that you do!!
By Justin
November 23, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know how Mike Hampton’s first start in the Mexican League went?
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this
Hey guys sorry for change the subject, but i been thinking write about the Winter League, special in Puerto Rico..since the beggining of century the Puerto Rican winter league give opportunity to major leaguer to continuos in shape during winter, this year is the first time the league have to Close the league for Economy problem the six team there four are in bankrutcy last year, is a shame…i saw player like, Clemente,Bench,Aaron,play over there..to list few, attendance and also, with the problem with now the Puerto rican player are part of the draft, before we are not beacause any team can sign any player from there(same Happen with the dominican), that why there more dominican now in the Big than Puerto rican, the other problem their mention is there are more fan watching basketball than baseball. A Article in the newspaper mention also kid don’t like to play anymore, they like to expense time playing video games than go to play Baseball.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Actually nolie , Andruw had 396 put outs. He led all N.L outfielders in this category. He also had three assists , which were a career low.
Like I already said , he can catch the ball. However , A.J can’t throw anybody out with that pea shooter of an arm.
His listed playing weight of 170 is a joke , Andruw was closer to 205-210 which is why he has lost a step.
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Oh come on already. Andruw wasn’t on roids. Dude was on Krispy Kreme. He’s bigger because he began eating American food and got accustomed to American lifestyles.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Justin please read the blog..
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Guys…Joe kennedy 28 died this morning according to ESPN…He play with Toronto,Tampa, and he was a free agent this year….On hampton update read my 10:37 blog this morning
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Braveheart…what is American Food?…steak & Fries is the same in Puerto rico & curazao…can you explain that…and also pizza like good in venezuela
By Tyler
November 23, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-I assume you personally know he wasn’t on roids..
By nOLIE
November 23, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
Actually nolie , Andruw had 396 put outs. He led all N.L outfielders in this category. He also had three assists , which were a career low.
yeah, you are correct. I thought I remembered seeing 400 in an article on the Fielding Bible award, but Baseballreference and ESPN both have 396. I wonder how much of the few assists are due to his arm,( it was certainly pretty strong as a youngster and why would it deteriorate?), and how much is due to the rep of those early career assists and also to all the diving catches and full out running catches? Pretty hard to throw anybody out when you’re running away from the infield or diving into the ground. I saw Druw play quite a bit in the minors and he certainly had a plus arm at that time. Does too much of mama’s cooking do that too? Thank goodness I no longer play!!
By robdawg06
November 23, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
Who here really thinks Mike Hampton can pitch a full season ? Taking baby steps with him pitching only one inning in Winter ball says it all. He’s too fragile and injury prone to count on.
So Texeira will replace Andruw’s numbers ? Okay but how is that getting production at two positions (CF & 1B) ? We need .280 40 and 100 from BOTH positions. You gain nothing by adding what you are losing. Aaron Rowand would be a good replacement in CF. Andruw saved probably 1 run per game average too with his defense. We need another ball-hawk in CF like Andruw was.
A lil’ support for the UGA Dawgs ! I hope they beat Ga. Tech by 40 ! Go Dawgs ! I’m a Kentucky fan Saturday too ! Beat the Vols, UK !
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
People are also forgetting that Andruw has had 2 contract years: 2001 and 2007. Both were by far his two worst seasons. Andruw is one of the guys who do not play well when he is overly concerned about playing for money.
2001: .251, .312, .461 with an OPS+ of 94
2007: .222, .311, .413 with an OPS+ of 88.
In no other year has his OPS+ been less than 112.
Everyone talks about how bad his second half of 2006 was but he had a .383 OBP and a .576 SLG during the second half of 2006 with 22 homers and 71 RBIs.
Those OBP and SLG numbers during the second half of 2006 were actually better than his numbers in the first half of 2005, the second half of 2005, the first half of 2006.
In fact, Andruw’s OBP & SLG during the second half of the 2006 season were better than any other half season he had as an Atlanta Brave except for the first half of the 2000 season.
Somehow, this myth got started that Andruw was awful during the second half of 2006 and that he has been in serious decline for 240 games. Not true. His batting average was bad during the second half of that season but his more important OBP & SLG numbers were not.
Someone is gonna sign him to a contract for less than Torii Hunter and get an offensive monster much better than Torii Hunter. Andruw just can’t play in contract seasons. 2001 and 2007 provided abundant evidence of that. The other seasons have proven that when he does not have to worry about contracts, you are getting an offensive monster FOR A CENTERFIELDER.
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
People are also forgetting that Andruw has had 2 contract years: 2001 and 2007. Both were by far his two worst seasons. Andruw is one of the guys who do not play well when he is overly concerned about playing for money.
2001: .251, .312, .461 with an OPS+ of 94
2007: .222, .311, .413 with an OPS+ of 88.
In no other year has his OPS+ been less than 112.
Everyone talks about how bad his second half of 2006 was but he had a .383 OBP and a .576 SLG during the second half of 2006 with 21 homers and 54 RBIs.
Those OBP and SLG numbers during the second half of 2006 were actually better than his numbers in the first half of 2005, the second half of 2005, the first half of 2006.
In fact, Andruw’s OBP & SLG during the second half of the 2006 season were better than any other half season he had as an Atlanta Brave except for the first half of the 2000 season.
Somehow, this myth got started that Andruw was awful during the second half of 2006 and that he has been in serious decline for 240 games. Not true. His batting average was bad during the second half of that season but his more important OBP & SLG numbers were not.
Someone is gonna sign him to a contract for less than Torii Hunter and get an offensive monster much better than Torii Hunter. Andruw just can’t play in contract seasons. 2001 and 2007 provided abundant evidence of that. The other seasons have proven that when he does not have to worry about contracts, you are getting an offensive monster FOR A CENTERFIELDER.
By TexasBrave
November 23, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
So if Tex will replace the numbers that AJ had in the cleanup position, then don’t we need someone to at least produce what AJ did while not in the 4 hole? Can anyone find those numbers?
I am sure the numbers will be pretty weak, thus we don’t need someone to put up great numbers, just hold their own without being a rally killer all the time and to play a great CF as AJ did.
By robdawg06
November 23, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
I think every Braves fan was sick of Andruw striking out all the time last year. But who can we get that’s better ? Rowand is the best CF available. If we can’t sign Rowand, I’d like to see Andruw offered (without Scott Borass) a one year $6 million dollar contract with incentives for batting average for a possible $12 million dollar a year contract if he meets those incentives. I know you said no way he can be resigned DOB but never say never ! The Yankees said they wouldn’t resign Arod too and did.
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
Anyone that has watched Andruw since 1996 has to have mixed feelings about how this has all come to an end. However, if you look at Andruw’s numbers and forget for just one minute about his connection to the Braves, do we really want to pay $15 million plus to a guy that hit .222 and had a .314 OBP last year? Also, how many of those HRs came in blow outs? I don’t remember coming through with a clutch hit all year. The only positive thing I remember was the 1 game he choked up on the bat and tried (and was very successful) to hit the ball to right. (Anyone remember the line drive HR to right he hit in that game?) My 1st thought was he finally gets it! Using all parts of the field will make him a complete hitter. But, much to my dismay, that was a one game fluke. I think it was after that game he announced he was a dead pull hitter. WHAT A WASTE!
By Lew
November 23, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
Jersey Gil-No, I wouldn’t count on Hampton for much of anything. I think those penciling him in as #4 starter are being overly optimistic. IF he comes back, I think it is more realistic to view him as the 1/2 pitcher in the 5 1/2 man rotation we discussed earlier this week. James will drop to #4, which is where he should have been if not for injuries last year. I think Reyes, Bennett and Jurrjens (and maybe Morton) will compete for the number five rotation slot. I also think that gives us the best rotation in the NL East next year. I just don’t see the Phillies picking up anyone significant (and they have Moyer and Eaton returning, with their horrible ERA’s). I don’t see the Mets doing much, either.
There just is no real decent Free agent pitcher available and neither the Mets or Phillies have the prospects to trade for anyone that would push their rotation that much in the right direction.
We, on the other hand, if it becomes necessary to acquire more pitching, have a farm system that is still loaded.
By Michael
November 23, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this
RIP Joe Kennedy.
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this
tyler, fine, andruw was on roids.
none of us have any evidence of that but we’ll just assume that he was on roids. his body type does not seem like that of a steroid user but we’ll just assume that he was a roidhead. he undoubtedly had great talent and power potential when he was a 19 year old toothpick but we’ll assume he was a steroid user for your sake.
he never had an unexplained spike in power but we’ll assume he was on roids for your sake. He had one career year where he hit 51 homers when he was 28 - an age where most players are in their prime and expected to have a career year where all their talents finally come together. We all watched that one career year at 28 years old when he hit 51 homers and saw that, outside of the 2000 season, it was the most disciplined he has been in his mechanics and approach at the plate but we will assume he was on roids for your sake.
Maybe he was on roids because you never know. But no intelligent fan can point to anything that would suggest that Andruw was ever on roids.
By Luther
November 23, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this
Andruw actually had his 51 HR season in 2005, which was the first year they started the new steroids policy. I’ve always thought that guys like him and Manny Ramirez might have been looked at as the biggest HR hitters in baseball if it weren’t for Bonds, Sosa, etc. during those years hitting 50+ every year.
By Luther
November 23, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
Andruw actually had his 51 HR season in 2005, which was the first year they started the new steroids policy. I’ve always thought that guys like him and Manny Ramirez might have been looked at as the biggest HR hitters in baseball if it weren’t for Bonds, Sosa, and the steroid crew during those years hitting 50+ every year.
By Billy James
November 23, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Where do people get the impression Mike Hampton is fragile and injury prone. He had Tommy John surgery on his pitching elbow, which failed and he needed to have surgery on the same elbow again.
In between the two surgeries he tore an oblique muscle which sidelined him during his rehab, which is not material because it was his second re-surgery, from the faied first surgery, that caused him to miss another season.
Now, someone please find other injuries in his career or trips to the DL and guess what….you can’t because he was known as Iron Mike because he was so durable.
Please do not make things up about people when you do not have the facts.
Mike Hampton injured his pitching arm during 2005 and continued to pitch through the pain until the doctors diagnosed it and performed Tommy John surgery after the season Sept. 20, 2005.
After going through rehab and attempting to pitch for the 2007 season, it was discovered his arm was re-injured due to surgery failure and new surgery was performed Tue, 10 Apr 2007.
Most all Tommy John surgeries are successful, but Hampton’s was freak surgery.
Unless this second surgery was a failure also, he should be physically fine.
These are facts and if he is injured at any time this year I bet people will call him fragile.
So, recap…..Hampton has injured the same elbow/forearm twice and tore an oblique while on the DL rehabbing the elbow.
Innings pitched until the first boo boo
1995-150.7 1996-160.3 1997-223.0 1998-211.7 1999-239.0 2000-217.7 2001-203.0 2002-178.7 2003-190.0 2004-172.3 2005-69.3 the year his elbow/forearm died
http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hamptmi01.shtml
Yeah, real fragile
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
Torii Hunter has only had two really good seasons: 2002 & 2007. Not a coincidence that both seasons were his way of campaigning for a big contract that he would sign during the following offseason. Otherwise, his offensive production is garbage.
Andruw Jones has only had two really bad seasons: 2001 and 2007. Not a coincidence that both seasons he could not handle the pressure of trying to get a big contract.
Outside of the contract seasons for Druw in 2001 and 2007 and the contract seasons for Torii in 2002 and 2007, Andruw has been a far superior player.
Outside of 2002 and 2007, Torri Hunter has only had one season with an OPS+ over 111.
Andruw has had an OPS+ over 111 in 8 seasons - in other words, each and every season except for the two contract seasons in 2001 and 2007.
Starting in 2008, Andruw will once again be a far superior and apparently cheaper player than Torii.
Foolish signing Angels. Should have signed Andruw.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
It’s 28 degrees here in Kansas City. Good football weather…
Jschneider, you really think my telling you Andruw’s not coming back is based on my feelings about the guy? I like Andruw a lot, always have. I’m telling you what the BRAVES have said and continue to say (including Bobby Cox on Monday, when he related his phone call that day with Andruw, in which he said he wished Andruw could come back, but it’s not going to work out.)
Braves have said he’s not coming back. They haven’t left a door cracked, haven’t said, “unless…” They’ve been consistent. I’m just telling you what they say. I personally have no impact on the decision, my man. None at all….
JB, you can assume my response above about Hamilton did not come from my mail man….
robdawg, I’ll give you that: Yanks said never on A-Rod, then turned around and re-signed him. So never say never, you’re right.
Other than that, nothing that’s happened or been said by anyone with the Braves gives me any reason to believe that anything’s changed on their stance, which is that they’re not bringing him back.
By Luther
November 23, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
oops, score it 6-4-3.
By robdawg06
November 23, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Hampton also had a stiff calf and forearm injuries. He gets hurt every year. Three straight years on the DL. He’s made $25 million dollars and pitched in 4 games in three years. How can you even defend Hampton ? Nobody is glad he gets hurt but it happens to players. Most teams realize it and boot these risk players. The Braves keep hoping and wasting a roster spot on Hampton.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 23, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
It does not surprise me to hear that Mike Hampton developed a leg problem in his one inning, but it is better than developing an arm problem. There is a very good reason he is pitching the winter leagues this year. It is to get into pitching shape.
On the question of minor league talent being ready to take Andruw’s place next year. First of all, no one is ever really going to replace the Andruw Jones of his heydays. It is like someone replacing Willie Mays. A player of his ability is truly a rarity. That is not to say Andruw is still that good but as far as fielding, he is without peer.
The only two guys I saw play center field for Richmond last year were Pete Orr and Blanco. Well, Pete is not going to be playing in Atlanta next year so that leaves Gregor. The kid has some ability but I cannot honestly say he is an everyday major league centerfielder. That is subject to change. Some guys take a little longer to come around than others.
I would say that if he is going to play in Atlanta, this may be his year to do it. It is encouraging that he is putting up good numbers in winter ball. I suppose we will all have to see how this plays out in the coming months. After all, we have not even made it to the winter meetings yet. There are still lots of moves to be made.
By robdawg06
November 23, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
How about Hampton was durable pre-2005 and fragile post 2005 ? I’d sign a pitcher that was HEALTHY to take his place yesterday…
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
With or without Hampton , the Braves have quality depth.
1.Smoltz 1. Smoltz
2.Hudson 2.Hudson
3.Glavine 3. Glavine
4.Hampton 4.James
5.James 5. Jurrjens
6.Jurrjens 6. Reyes
7.Reyes 7. Bennett
8.Bennett 8. Cormier
9.Cormier 9. Morton
10.Morton 10.D.Smith
By Lew
November 23, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
Billy James-It’s not a matter of fragility. It’s strictly that Hampton has missed two and a half seasons. That is a long time to go without ML action and is not easy to come back from.
No one is saying he hasn’t been a hard worker or hasn’t given all he has, both while on the field and in rehab, but merely that it is not wise to count on his return to full form-or anything approaching that-especially when we have other alternatives lined up just in case.
By robdawg06
November 23, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Are the Braves going after Aaron Rowand DOB ? He would fit in well with Chipper,Tex,Francoeur,and McCann. As of right now we are weaker than last year offensively. We’ve lost Renteria and Andruw (although Escobar will likely cover Edgar’s numbers). The money should be there for Rowand. If the Braves wait too long Rowand will be a Dodger or a Giant. Its like those cheezy 19.99 product commercials…”Act now while supplies last”….
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
robdawg, they are not getting rowand. he would be an absolute waste of money. in 2005 and in 2006, rowand was just as bad as andruw was in 2007. if the braves were gonna sign an expensive centerfielder, they would sign druw and not rowand.
By Billy James
November 23, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
Ouch a stiff calf, well their is sometjng to rival open heart surgery for sure, but as far as the forearm stuff goes those forearm injuries were all about the Tommy John surgeries. Every forearm injury was caused by the problem that require dsurgery. No one is denying he didn’t miss the time, but it wasn’t his fault. People act like he intentionally hurt himself and he made the surgeons drop th ball on the surgery.
Maybe I am not explaining it correctly and if someone can say it more clear than I am please feel free to jump in.
By TexasBrave
November 23, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
On a slow day I thought I would look up some numbers on our kids.
Outfielders: AVG AB R HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS Gregor Blanco 317 123 25 3 8 22 29 4 5 425 463 888 Doug Clark 319 141 24 5 15 16 31 5 5 385 468 852 Brandon Jones 311 135 29 3 16 21 25 2 7 403 422 825 Jordan Schafer 324 105 20 1 16 12 25 10 3 395 429 824
Pitchers: ERA IP H BB SO Avg. Matt Harrison 2.00 27 16 7 19 .174 Charlie Morton 2.57 21 15 8 20 .205 Jeff Bennett 1.25 36 31 13 18 .246
Oh by the way
Scott Thorman 239/117AB/8HR/18RBI/8BB/29SO/286 OBP/462 SLB/747 OPS
Wow his BA is 26 points higher. Hmmm… is it time to let him go yet?
I also did’t realize this but all of the outfielders mentioned above are left handed batters.
By robdawg06
November 23, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
I disagree. I think Rowand has just finally developed into a good hitter. It takes some players longer to become stars.
Billy James, I’m glad you’ve got this love affair with Mike Hampton but if you base his value solely on his contributions to the team while earning millions of dollars the last 3 years then you are crazy.
By Billy James
November 23, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Lew, you must not have read my post. I never said, anywhere in what I wrote, that Hampton was going to pitch in 2008, that anyone could count on him in 2008 or that it is wise to count on his return to full form-or anything approaching that-especially when we have other alternatives lined up just in case.
That is a long time to go without ML action and is not easy to come back from and since you said it, and I didn’t, I will agree to that. But given the investment the team has in him he will be given every chance to prove he belongs in a Braves uniform.
I was responding to anyone who called his fragile and only that. You are putting words in my mouth if you respond to me about anything other than his career being described as fragile.
Hampton will be given every opportunity to prove himself healty, just like Glavine, Hudson, Smoltz and the rest of the pitching staff must do in order to pitch in Atlanta this year coming.
By Shaun
November 23, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
The reason Andruw’s “run production”—RBI total—was so high is simple: He was in a great lineup and was in there virtually every day.
By TexasBrave
November 23, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
robdawg06 - I have to agree with Braveheart that Rowand would be a waste of money and a serious down grade in CF. I would much rather take my chances with Anderson or Blanco.
Everyone is saying that Escobar will be able to replace Rent’s numbers. However, I don’t beleive he will do so, at least not this year. It will not be a huge drop off from Edgar but a small drop off to be sure.
All we need to do is find a CF who can come close to roaming the outfield like AJ did and that can hit at least in the 260’s and I think we will be alright.
Of greater concern will be how the rotation holds up with or without Hampton and finding better bench players than those of last year.
Oh and locking up Mahay if at all possible.
And please can we get rid of Thorman?
By Billy James
November 23, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
robdawg06 I have no love affair with Mike Hampton. I just get tired of Hacks like you mis stating facts. I place no value on Hampton all I did was say you a misinformed fan about Hampton. You don’t need to call me names, but since you did than I feel compelled to say you are a DICKBREATH.
By Braves fan Jay
November 23, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
DOB, who’s going to be the closer? I hope not Soriano. Do you think he’s the closer? If not, who else?
By TexasBrave
November 23, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
Oops! Sorry about those stats. Guess I need work on how to get them to show up better. Or perhaps I will just leave it to the vets on this blog. :-)
By JB
November 23, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
DOB New question for ya…Any chance we give Julio Franco an invite to spring training.
By Shaun
November 23, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
robdawg06, Rowand has finally developed into a good hitter? His best season at the plate was 2004. He was pretty good in limited playing time in 2001 and 2003 as well. If we take into account his home park and his age, he’s not likely to be anything special for his next team. He’s a solid player but he’s going to be overpaid for his production at least by the second or third year of his new deal.
By Josh
November 23, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
brilliant idea robodawg: instead of wasting a roster spot on someone owed a substantial amount of money to, no matter if we release him or not, let’s simply cut ties with him because, as history proves, pitchers never ever recover from injury. ever. I mean, why should we give someone with proven success at the major league level a chance to rehab and come back when we could just release him, pay him anyway, and pay someone else money to take his place.
By semiballcoach
November 23, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
anyone realize that franceour is the only top rated minor leaguer (baseball america) that the braves haven’t traded since 1998? why worry about “african-american” ballplayers? leave that to jesse. i guess heyward doesn’t count since he only got 1.7 million bonus
By Greg O.
November 23, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
DOB, Obviously this wouldn’t be the best option, but any chance the Braves could give Steve Finley a look? He could split time with Anderson and later in the season, if Schafer comes up, he could also help him along. I’ve heard a lot of comparisons between Schafer and Finley. Wouldn’t it make sense for Schafer to learn from the man in spring training and into the season?
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Shaun noticed you haven’t been very active lately….it’s good to have your “no nonsense” perspective back on the blog. I don’t always “see eye to eye” with everything you say, but I always respect the numbers you provide us.
By chrisklob
November 23, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this
Greg O, do yourself a favor and take a look at Finley’s 2007 stats. There’s a reason that Colorado let him go. We do NOT need someone with no bat and reduced defensive ability to replace AJ. I’d much sooner stick to one of the kids before sign him.
By Bo
November 23, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
Please let AJ rest. Frank the Man Wren has said NO! What damn it don’t you understand, he is gone. Thank God he’s gone. Give Wren time you will not be disappointed. Bet on it.Thanks DOB. Some people believe you just make up stuff. Just keep up the good job.
By Anders
November 23, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
DOB For weeks I’ve been trying to explain to you and your faithful readers that Glavine is not the pitchers you think he is anymore and I couldn’t seem to put it in the right words. Little did I expect Glavine to provide the words for me:
He was brutally honest and said he’s not a $13 million pitcher (the option he declined with the Mets) and didn’t want the pressure of that price tag every time he went to the mound.
That’s exactly how he pitched down the stretch - Like he didn’t want and couldn’t handle the pressure. Sure, he’ll pitch OK off and on during the season but he did nothing to show me he could still deliver when the pressure was on last year. His role with the Braves now is to be an innings eater and pitch a little over .500. While he will finish off his career at home, ducking into the 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation and hoping to avoid the big pressure spots certainly isn’t the most glorious way to end a HOF career.
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this
Anders I find it extremely entertaining that you are so concerned that Glavine won’t perform for the Braves. Yet, at the same time, your Mets have done little to nothing to improve it’s own pitching staff. My suggestion to you is clean your own house before commenting on ours.
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
DOB …If the Braves have an update on Hampton…report from mexico said he injured his leg in the first inning…you don’t metion that in your article why?..if not serius injuries…I know the mount in those stadium if not a Major league standard..and sometime if touch to pitch in those stadium.
By chrisklob
November 23, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this
Anders, not one Braves’ fan, at least none that have half a clue, expect Glavine to come in and be the ace of the staff. This is not the 1998 version of TG and every one of us know that.
Glavine’s role is to eat innings and give the team a chance to win. If some of the youngsters learn something from him, I consider that to be a bonus.
Glavine was signed because he happens to be the best choice available right now. Plain and simple. And at $8m, he’s a damn bargain.
The better question is this: what the hell is Minaya going to do to shore up YOUR rotation? You might want to send him a memo explaining that limiting your choices to only Hispanic players is really pretty silly. It seriously diminishes the pool of players to choose from.
Oh, and congratulations on getting Estrada. He’s been with five organizations in six years. That should tell you something about what kind of teammate he is.
By chris
November 23, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this
Thank you Anders, for the most pompous post of the day. Let me get this straight: you have been trying to explain to the rest of us of lesser intellect that Glavine can’t handle pressure. Glavine, you state, hasn’t proven to you personally that he can do so. I raise my drink to you, sir. Raise your crack pipe to the rest of us.
By Efrim
November 23, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
Coco Cordero gets 46 million over 4 years for the Reds.
I am not sure that makes them a better team. Oh well, we went 2-5 against them in 2007, so what does it matter.
By Anders
November 23, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Chrisklob All I’ve heard on this blog was that Glavine was leaving the Mets and $13 mil because he wanted to be close to home. According to his own words that doesn’t appear to be the only reason. He appears to have lost confidence in himself - so I’m not alone in my thoughts, the man himself expressed them -what further proof do I need?. As for the Mets, we have virtually the same rotation and lineup that led the division for 95% of last season and barring another historic collapse should be competitive again. We won’t have Glavine but we will have Pedro who I’m sure will want the ball in the big games. That alone is a major step up.
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
okay anders. we got ourselves a player who does not feel he can stand the pressure. at least he was honest about it.
honesty about the inability to stand tall under pressure is not something i have heard from any of the other 26 Mets (including omar and willie) who had a role in the choke job of the century.
you’ve got many more problems to worry about than whether we understand or not whether glavine can handle pressure anymore.
you’ve got 26 other bums up there who clearly can’t handle pressure.
By Andy
November 23, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
DOB: I’M A BIT NERVOUS RIGHT NOW, I JUST TRANSLATED THE MEXICAN LEAGUE SITE, AND IT SAYS MIKE HAMPTON HAD A DISFORTUNATE DEBUT, AFTER LEAVING INJURED IN THE SECOND INNING!!! Please tell us this is not so…please.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 23, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
Okay guys, enough of the smack talk about the Braves. Let’s wait until at least March before anyone declares victory. That is especially true for the Mutts fans.
By Anders
November 23, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
Chris Did you see his last three games as a Met? Probably the worst three game string by a starter that has ever been recorded. This from the supposed veteran HOF leader of the staff in the home stretch of a team that was leading the division all season.? It was pathetic and he looked like a deer in the head lights and pitched progressively worse every game. Now I know why - he didn’t want the pressure. Let me ask you something - Could you ever - ever, hear John Smoltz utter those words about not wanting the pressure evry time out to the mound? I certainly couldn’t fathom it. As for the crack pipe line - try to show some class as much of a stretch as it might be.
By chris
November 23, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this
Braveheart: where is Glavine quoted about not being able to handle pressure?
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this
Anders Tick tick tick tick……time keeps marching on. Pedro ain’t the Pedro of old….Ya’ll underperformed at 1st, 2nd is a joke. Your LF will be applying for Social Security next year……your team just signed a journeyman catcher that, from what I’ve read, Mets management isn’t sure it wants to keep. Yet all you can do is come in here and tell us how bad Glavine is going to be. Again, clean your own house before worrying about ours.
By Paula
November 23, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this
Some people obviously have reading comprehension issues. Glavine never said he couldn’t take the pressure. Just more BS by the bashers.
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this
Furman Bisher had this quote in his article: “I wasn’t sure I was worth 13 million,” Glavine said. “I’m not a No. 1 starter any more. I didn’t have the feeling that I could go out and pitch like a $13 million guy anymore.”
By Greg O.
November 23, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this
chrisklob, been there, seen the numbers. if you’ll look back at my post, i said give him a look, not bet the farm on him. He’d cost next to nothing and would probably accept a non-roster invite. if he shows he still has something left in the tank, he’s a valuable veteran presence in center field. if not, cut ties having not paid him a thing. especially if you’re planning on going into spring training with anderson, schafer, and blanco as your three candidates, can it really hurt to give Finley a look, as well?
By chris
November 23, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this
Let’s see, you wrote that Glavine’s last three starts were “probably the worst three game string by a starter that has ever been recorded.” Hmmmmm. In all of baseball history. Nobody ever pitched worse. Ever. Because you know, as you did extensive research. You are a BASEBALL EXPERT. And then you declare that a 300 game winner, one of the great pitchers in postseason history, is afraid of pressure. Because you know. Yeah, that’s classy. You make negative, inflammatory and baseless declarations about one of the great competitors of his generation, and then you talk about having “class”. I love Mets fans. Really, please put down your crack pipe.
By chris
November 23, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, that’s not sufficient to base that claim about his state of mind. Paula’s right.
By Greg O.
November 23, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this
Andy, I think I just found the site you were talking about. I translated as many mentions of Hampton as I could find and after the initial mention of the injury, I found this entry, translated by freetranslation.com. there are obviously some things lost in translation, but I did get that the injury was to his LEG, so that’s obviously a relief. here’s the exerpt. “For the second entrance (inning?) Hampton no longer left to launch (pitch?) due to an inconvenience (injury?) in one of its legs”
By Anders
November 23, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this
Glavine himself said he doesn’t want the pressure , his actions last September showed he couldn’t take it and he was right to leave the money and head to a safer harbor. If you write off his last three starts then you need to write off all the Mets play the last three weeks. Can’t have it both ways folks.
By Shamus Thacker
November 23, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
Hampton pitched an inning!?
Is he in traction? Paralyzed? Dead?
I’ll bet the insurance Co. charges separate premiums on each individual pitch.
If he makes it through another inning in one piece, I’ll run backerds from here to Turner Field, NEKKID!
By Braveheart
November 23, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this
LSU LOSES!
By Greg O.
November 23, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this
should also be noted that Brandon Jones was playing center field in at least the last two Mexican League games. A third link went to the wrong game, so he might’ve played all three games in center. Box Score
By JerseyGil
November 23, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
Greg O /Andy oviously you guys did not read my post, since this morning i been telling you guys what happen to Hampton….i read and Speak Espanol real good…and last night i was online watching the game in the web side of the Mayos…also i post the article in spanish that report that Hampton has a leg injury.
By Mitch
November 23, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
Mr O Brien, I agree with your column. I still think that signing Glavine for one year at 8 mil was money well spent. The last three starts in New York in 2007 are not indicative that Tommy is done. Think of it, for most of the 2007 season in NY, with Pedro out, Tommy was viewed as a number one starter. With the Braves current rotation, Tommy slides into the number three spot, pitches his 200 innings, and I say, wins us 12 games minimum, and maybe as many as 15. I think he will have around a 4 ERA, have a good year, and will pitch in 2009. As for Center Field: I do agree with you that we should not re sign Andruw. Boras is notorious for thinking his cilents can get top dollar. I would not be surprised to see Andruw remain a free agent until after the 1st of the year. Remember Maddux in 2004? He signed with Chicago shortly before spring training. I dont know where Andruw will end up, but, its possible that Boras will get no more than 2 yrs and 15 mil per for him. I dont see someone giving him a four to five year, 80 to 100 mil deal, coming off a .222 season. As to what we do in center field: I have a feeling the Braves are going to give it to this kid Schaffer, with Anderson as his backup. While Wren may sign a Coco Crisp, he might also remember the team handing 3rd base in 1995 to an untested rookie named Chipper Jones. We got 23 homers, 86 RBI, and the guy has been solid, if not injury prone, since. I’ll be surprised to see Wren sign someone else. Then again, while I had hoped we would sign Glavine, I was actually surprised when Wren pulled it off. Bobby said on Monday that our team is complete. I believe him. The key to our 2008 will be the return of Hampton. If Mike comes back, and wins us 10 or more games, and Hudson Smoltz and Glavine are what they’ve been the last couple of years, we will do fine. If Mike cannot come back, and we cant find some servicable fifth starter to eat up innings, and whoever is in center field flops, we will finish third again. My prediction: Braves win in the high 80s to low 90s wins, we win at least the wild card, and maybe, the NL East. We won 84 games last year, and finished five out of the East, and stayed in the wild card race to the last week, with really only two starting pitchers, bullpen musicial chairs, and our center fielder hitting 222. I think we will be in the playoffs in 2008, if not as the NL East Champs, then definitely as the wild card.
Mitch
By Mitch
November 23, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this
Mr O Brien, I agree with your column. I still think that signing Glavine for one year at 8 mil was money well spent. The last three starts in New York in 2007 are not indicative that Tommy is done. Think of it, for most of the 2007 season in NY, with Pedro out, Tommy was viewed as a number one starter. With the Braves current rotation, Tommy slides into the number three spot, pitches his 200 innings, and I say, wins us 12 games minimum, and maybe as many as 15. I think he will have around a 4 ERA, have a good year, and will pitch in 2009. As for Center Field: I do agree with you that we should not re sign Andruw. Boras is notorious for thinking his cilents can get top dollar. I would not be surprised to see Andruw remain a free agent until after the 1st of the year. Remember Maddux in 2004? He signed with Chicago shortly before spring training. I dont know where Andruw will end up, but, its possible that Boras will get no more than 2 yrs and 15 mil per for him. I dont see someone giving him a four to five year, 80 to 100 mil deal, coming off a .222 season. As to what we do in center field: I have a feeling the Braves are going to give it to this kid Schaffer, with Anderson as his backup. While Wren may sign a Coco Crisp, he might also remember the team handing 3rd base in 1995 to an untested rookie named Chipper Jones. We got 23 homers, 86 RBI, and the guy has been solid, if not injury prone, since. I’ll be surprised to see Wren sign someone else. Then again, while I had hoped we would sign Glavine, I was actually surprised when Wren pulled it off. Bobby said on Monday that our team is complete. I believe him. The key to our 2008 will be the return of Hampton. If Mike comes back, and wins us 10 or more games, and Hudson Smoltz and Glavine are what they’ve been the last couple of years, we will do fine. If Mike cannot come back, and we cant find some servicable fifth starter to eat up innings, and whoever is in center field flops, we will finish third again. My prediction: Braves win in the high 80s to low 90s wins, we win at least the wild card, and maybe, the NL East. We won 84 games last year, and finished five out of the East, and stayed in the wild card race to the last week, with really only two starting pitchers, bullpen musicial chairs, and our center fielder hitting 222. I think we will be in the playoffs in 2008, if not as the NL East Champs, then definitely as the wild card.
Mitch
By ncscoots
November 23, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t get excited just because Brandon Jones is getting some innings in CF. Braves already know he can play both corners, so I’m sure they just want to see how he handles CF, in case he doesn’t become the starting LF in the spring. In that event, being able to play all three positions gives him a better shot at making the club.
Certainly, it would be nice to have a reserve OF who can actually play more than LF, unlike the last couple of years.
By jschneider
November 23, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I wasn’t saying its your feelings and that you personally don’t like Andruw. It just seems like the braves do not seem to want him back regardless of cost and I don’t understand it. Its as if they have completely soured on him.
By Scooter McNutts
November 23, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this
Well it appears that the W/Sox who thought they had T. Hunter locked up have completely gone off the deep end since they couldn’t complete that signing.
They signed Linebrink for nearly 5 mil per.
Now, according to two different reports I’ve seen this afternon, they will offer Andruw the same contract that the Angels gave Hunter, 5 yrs—80 mil.
That is totally asinine!!!!!!!!
Seems a few teams were willing to sign him for one year to see if ‘07 was just an off year but Bor@ss rejected those offers. Now we wait to see if the W/Sox are really that stupid!!!!
BTW
Saw this also: Twins offered Santana 5 yrs—93 mil. He countered with 5 yrs—126 mil.
I don’t care if he’s the best pitcher in MLB or not he isn’t worth 25 mil plus a year. Notice that the Twins didn’t win any W/Series titles with him.
Another rumor has Twins now trying to package him to R/Sox for Lester/Crisp & prospects????
Seems the hot stove is just starting to get warm!!!!!
By jschneider
November 23, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I wasn’t saying its your feelings and that you personally don’t like Andruw. It just seems like the braves do not seem to want him back regardless of cost and I don’t understand it. Its as if they have completely soured on him.
By Tyler
November 23, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-My point wasn’t that he was on them because we never know. My point was that it doesn’t mean he wasn’t on them because you think he got fat form American food. Say what you want, but his body changed in simlar ways as people on steroids. Barry’s body had a transformation, and so did Andruw’s. I don’t know if he did, and neither do you. I was just speculating, and you don’t know the answer.
By dadgum
November 23, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this
Just watched watched Arkansas whip LSU. Many were saying it will go down as the greatest college game ever played. Based on all at stake and #1 losing on their home turf I have to say that it will most likely be viewed that way. Absolutely an incredible, incredible, incredible game. If you didn’t see it buy the tape or CD…..soon. WOW! WOW! and I am not a fan of either team.
This guarantees WVU will be in the championship game if it beats UCONN. Kansas/Missouri/Oklahoma winner most likely will be the opponent.
Also, now that there is no concensus #1 isn’t everyone begging for a playoff system. Even those against it have to be second-guessing themselves. College football will forever take a backseat to the other sports until they wise up.
See Ya………..
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 23, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
Must admit, the LSU / Arkansas game very was entertaining. Personally, I love the parity in college football.
By Lew
November 23, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this
PPaddy-Dude-Haven’t you learned by now that arguing with Anders, like resisting a Borg Warrior is completely Futile? Disagree with him (such an easy thing to do as his head is up his…well, you fill in the anatomical part)and he thinks you’re being mean and nasty to him. Don’t even bother. It just is not worth the time and effort, trying to convince him he doesn’t know his gluteus maximus from a hole in the ground. It’s much like telling a brick wall it is need of repair. Even if it understands you and acknowledges it’s inadequacies, it will never fix itself.
By Scooter McNutts
November 23, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this
dadgum
Just watched watched Arkansas whip LSU. Many were saying it will go down as the greatest college game ever played.
I’m not attacking you, did find it interesting & entertaining for what I saw of it (didn’t see the whole game) but I’ve got to go with the Boise/Oklahoma bowl game this past year as my choice for the best college game!!
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
Lew of all the Mets fans that come on here, Anders has been, by far, the only one worth having a dialog with. Obviously, I disagree with a lot of the things he has to say. You know things must suck pretty bad in Metsland for him to be here so much (or maybe he’s a closet Braves fan) The point is, oh never mind, he really is a hard head.
By Scooter McNutts
November 23, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this
*ppaddy123 * Obviously, I disagree with a lot of the things he has to say. You know things must suck pretty bad in Metsland for him to be here so much (or maybe he’s a closet Braves fan) The point is, oh never mind, he really is a hard head.
AMEN—could’nt agree with you more!!! LOL
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this
man, it’s quiet in here tonight!
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
Dadgum, I watched that game and it was phenomenal. But I’d disagree with you about college football taking a backseat to other sports. Don’t think it ever has, or ever will. Many would argue that this season, in fact, is an argument FOR the current system, because every game, week to week, is so important. Unlike college hoops, where the regular season is rendered largely irrelevent by what happens in March. Too much so, in my opinion….
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this
Has anyone seen the photo of Bartolo Colon on the Fox Sports mlb website? Man! He needs to hook up with Jared and get on the Subway diet, or something! That dude is getting too “tubby”! wonder if his physical conditioning has had anything to do with his recent poor performance?
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
Anders, the obsession with Glavine isn’t healthy. He’s a Brave now. It’s OK. The Mets will get other pitchers. You don’t have to keep criticizing Glavine as a defense mechanism for whatever feelings you’re having about the Mets’ finish and their offseason moves to date.
They’re going to be fine, and make lots of money with their new park coming and all that. Why can’t you just leave the Braves and Glavine be, since he’s back now where he wanted to be? He hasn’t ripped the Mets or anything. It’s OK. Life goes on….
As for those misinterpreting and trying to make something out of Glavine’s comments other than what he actually said, what he said was, there’s enough pressure going out there and pitching in the major leagues without the added pressure of trying to live up to a $13 million salary when that’s not the pitcher you are anymore.
He gave an honest appraisal of himself, said he’s not a No. 1 anymore, though he can still pitch that way some nights.
Man, some of you rip a guy for trying to get the most money, rip a guy for making himself sound better than he actually is, or then turn around and rip a guy for taking less money and admitting he doesn’t see himself as a No. 1 pitcher making top dollar anymore. I mean, dude can’t win with some here.
The actual quote, if you want to know it instead of getting parts of it secondhand and spinning it, was this. When asked about the $13 million option he declined with the Mets, Glavine said:
“Whether people want to believe me or not, when I came home after the season, I wasn’t sure I wanted to play. In my mind, and I told the Mets before I left town, that there was no way I was going to pick up that option, because I knew five days wasn’t going to be enough time for me to decide if I still wanted to play baseball.
“I had to come home first, get away from the game for a while, and truly decide whether or not this was something I wanted to continue to do. Once I came to that conclusion, then it was going to be a matter of finding out what best suited me. And obviously this [Braves] was the best situation.
“On top of that, I told the Mets, and my agent can attest to it, that I didn’t think I was worth $13 million. I don’t think I’m that kind of pitcher anymore. There’s enough pressure to go out there and pitch in this game, without the pressure of feeling like you have to prove you’re worth a certain amount of money.
“The last two years I’ve foregone options that I had in my contracts for options for more money that I ended up making, simply because I don’t view myself as a No. 1 guy anymore, and I don’t think I should be paid that way.
“That doesn’t mean on occasion I can’t go out there for stretches of time and still pitch like a No. 1 guy.
By GermanBravesFan
November 23, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
DOB: is there another reason for the Braves not to bring back Andruw besides salary issues and possibly “blocking” one of the CF prospects? One would think that, after such a long time with the team AND having taken a hometown discount last time around, the Braves would at least leave the door open a little bit. Is there anything behind the scenes (besides Scott Boras) which might indicate that Andruw burnt some bridges? Just curious…
By Chuckie
November 23, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
I was looking over Chuck James Stats and he is was good until the end of July. I just don’t understand why so many on here are so eager to trade him. This was his first full year in the bigs, folks.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
BravesFanJay: Yes, for the 37th time, Soriano’s the closer….
JB, Julio Franco? Dude, no idea. If he’s invited to spring as a non-roster guy, he’s invited to spring as a non-roster guy. At this point, that’s not even on the radar. Just doesn’t much matter right now, in the big picture….
GIL: Why didn’t I update on Hampton’s supposed leg injury? Because when I text messaged the GM this morning and asked if any problem with Hampton, any reason he only went 1 inning, I was told that no, that was the plan, that he’s in rehab mode, that he’ll work up to 2 innings next time, then 3, etc. No mention of a leg injury. So if he has one, I’d bet it’s minor. But I haven’t even been told he has one.
You’re taking something translated from a website that’s not exactly the most reliable source of information, I’d imagine. Anyway, if he had a serious leg injury, the GM would’ve told me, I’m fairly certain. And if the GM hadn’t been told of it by this morning, I’m guessing he doesn’t have a serious injury.
I wasn’t there. And I haven’t read any account of it, other than your translation. Dude, it’s Nov. 23. If he has a minor leg strain or whatever in his first game in the Mexican Winter League (and I’m not saying he does, because I don’t know), we’ll find out. It’s not the end of the world if we don’t know before Monday.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 23, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
DOB , I too watched the LSU/Arkansas game and it was incredible . like watching two heavy weights slugging it out. One thing is for sure , at the moment , Kansas is in control of it’s destiny. Also , I can’t believe my Bulldogs are in position to break into the top five with two losses.
Steve Finley ? C’mon , it’s too early to be stone cold commode hugging drunk and stumbling around in the blog.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this
Shaun, let me get this straight: You’re now turning the tables on me by dismissing Andruw’s RBI totals as merely a product of his position in the lineup?
Dude, that’s what I said for the first half of the season when you argued with me almost daily that Andruw wasn’t having a terrible season because he still wasn’t making outs or he still was drawing walks or blah blah blah.
You were about the last holdout on here, the last to finally concede he was having a terrible season. And now, now you’re going to point out he was driving in so many runs because of his spot in the lineup? Well, yes, Shaun, join the party. Many of us have been saying that since Andruw’s MVP runner-up season in 2005, when I had to argue with some here that Andruw wasn’t worthy of the MVP because he hit more than 100 points lower than Pujols with RISP and would’ve had 160 RBIs if he’d hit anywhere near .300 with RISP.
Andruw hit .207 with RISP that season, and Pujols hit .331. Difference was staggering.
Just find it ironic you’re now the one pointing out that his RBIs were a result of his position in the lineup and the fact Cox kept him there so long.
No duh, my man. I was writing two months into the season that anyone — Francoueur, McCann, anyone — should have been hitting fourth this season when Andruw was stinking it up.
Doesn’t change the fact that Braves are still going to miss his run production, both his runs scored and his RBIs, this season if they go with one of the three kids in CF. But Tex will, indeed, offset much of that by doing such a better job than Andruw in the cleanup spot. Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean they won’t miss Andruw’s production in CF. That’s all I was saying.
What if Chipper doesn’t put up last year’s homer and RBIs? What if Francoeur doesn’t drive in 100 for the third consecutive season? What if Escobar doesn’t come close to Renteria’s offensive contributions? They’re going to miss Andruw’s homers and RBIs, that’s all I’m saying.
Should they have re-signed him? Absolutely not, not at the prices Boras seeks for Andruw. That wasn’t my point, though.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
Robdawg, not exactly a well-informed post here by you: “Most teams realize it and boot these risk players. The Braves keep hoping and wasting a roster spot on Hampton.”
Uh, which teams cut a guy who’s getting paid $15 million for the upcoming season? Robdawg, you really, really need to understand the difference between football and baseball contracts, man. You’re locked in NFL thinking. That doesn’t work in baseball. Guaranteed contracts. Guar-an-teed. Understand? Braves are paying him $15 mill next season, whether he’s pitching for them or they “cut him” as you suggest and he goes home to Phoenix.
What executive in his right mind would simply throw away $15 mill? And if they released him now, before he even goes to spring training and it’s determined whether he can pitch or not, they’d be on the hook for the entire amount, with no possible way of getting any insurance.
Robdawg, that makes less than zero sense. Just completely illogical.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this
Coach, that line about the Steve Finley suggestion was priceless.
GermanBravesFan, you asked: “Is there another reason for the Braves not to bring back Andruw besides salary issues and possibly “blocking” one of the CF prospects? “
You mean, besides those reasons and the fact he’s hit .232 with 220 strikeouts and a .333 OBP in 937 at-bats over his past 257 games? No, none.
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this
c’mon, DOB don’t take away Anders purpose in life. He lives to worry about us!
By chrisklob
November 23, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
DOB, I read that post by Shaun and it made me scratch my head too. Makes me wonder if it’s the same Shaun or if a jackal didn’t steal his name.
Have fun in KC. The door is open, wide open. It should be a very exciting day tomorrow. Do you know if the game is nationally televised? What time is kickoff?
On another note, Joe Kennedy’s passing is absolutely tragic. Aside from being a husband and father to a very young son, he was a good guy. I had the good luck to see him pitch in the minors in 2000 for the Riverdogs. I spoke to him a number of times and what I remember most about him was his certainty that he would pitch in the majors. Over the years, I’ve spoken to literally thousands of minor leaguers. If you ask them, most will tell you that they will play in the bigs one day. But I remember a conversation we had after a ball game one night when he told me that he’d be playing in the major leagues the next year. He wasn’t cocky or arrogant at all in his prediction. He was just sure of himself. And he was right, he did earn a promotion midway through the next season. It’s a shame that he’s gone at such an early age.
Joe Kennedy, 1979-2007. RIP.
By GermanBravesFan
November 23, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the clarification, DOB… :-) I totally agree not to bring him back for the salary he’ll be asking for (and after the season he just had).
By chrisklob
November 23, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this
Robdawg, not exactly a well-informed post here by you…
He’s been spewing ridiculous ideas out all day.
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this
boise st. and hawawii have a pretty good one going on the deuce. gosh college football is great. great games all day tmmrw.
if ohio state sneaks back in this thing it is a crime. absolutely the most overated program in america.
By Shaun
November 23, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this
DOB, my point is that RBI do not a hitter make. Things like getting on base and hitting the ball hard, far and where they ain’t is what makes a hitter produce runs. RBI aren’t or shouldn’t be the definer of a run producer because so often they are so highly dependent on extraneous factors that they don’t tell us much.
The Braves will miss the 1997-2006 Andruw and I’m of the opinion they will probably miss the 2008-2010 or 2011 Andruw, but they won’t miss the 2007 Andruw.
Yes I realize I was the last man defending AJ. That was because his plate discipline and his control of the strikezone looked as good as ever for about the first month, month-and-a-half of the season. And I though after that he was just in a slump or maybe he was injured and would get back on track after sitting out the All-Star break. He did not. I don’t know the reasons. I’m still not convinced injuries didn’t have something to do with his struggles but we’ll never know because AJ doesn’t make excuses…Anyway, I digest (a little Thanksgiving humor).
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this
it’s like watching a track meet with football helmets
By uga-brave
November 23, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this
all this andruw talk is moot. as long as there is a soft cap in baseball there are gonna be your haves and have nots. the braves at the current moment are a have not. one question? anyone know what the braves compensation from revenue sharing and there luxury tax exemption was.
By uga-brave
November 24, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this
ppaddy123,
colt brennan looks pretty darn good. cbs sportsline projects the dawgs vs. hawaii in the sugar bowl. well until lsu got beat.
By uga-brave
November 24, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this
DOB,
i fully expect to see you at gameday tmmrw. you think corso is gonna hoist on that jayhawk head around noon.
By Cooper S
November 24, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this
DOB, great Schafer story. Seems like a good kid.
By BabyGoatEater
November 24, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this
I’ve looked over the stats and Chucky seems to statistically die down at the end of the season. I’m for the 6 man rotation thing but, not with chucky as #6. Let Jo-Jo do that. He will get plenty of innings, most of them scheduled. He’d also get some mop up work to work on his 3 and 4 pitches. Jair seems like to valuable a prospect to not just let him develop into a clear #2 starter. Half a season at Richmond , or maybe less (ie Hampton gets hurt;Smoltz tweeks something) would do him no harm and could only help him grow.
By Greg O.
November 24, 2007 2:16 AM | Link to this
Everybody can laugh all they want about the Steve Finley suggestion, but when your other options are Gregor Blanco, Josh Anderson, and a guy with loads of potential but exactly zero at bats above A ball, your argument kind of falls flat. All I’m saying is if the Braves get to Spring Training without anymore options than Blanco, Anderson, and Schafer, it doesn’t hurt at all to give Finley a look as a non-roster invite. Make no mistake - the Braves are looking for a stopgap. If Finley can put together half a season of decent at bats, he’d accomplish the goal.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 24, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this
DOB Just finished reading your piece on Jordan Schafer. Isn’t it amazing how you can get good vibes on a guy watching him play. That is the position I am in down here in the minors. I know that watching the game on TV does not allow for you to get the true sense of speed of the game.
The only sport that is truly made for TV is football but that is only because there are so many things to watch and all those cameras allow for small differences to be shown. However, you still have to watch in person to get that feel for the quickness of some of these guys.
Once upon a time there were small fast players and big slow players. Now there are big fast players and that allows for them to crush the little guys. I suspect though modern science will catch up with these guys and the super human feats will no longer be the norm.
Just so you know, I am no fan of Kansas but then, I don’t root for Missouri either. May the best team win and I hope you can come home so hoarse that you can’t speak above a whisper. Then you’ll know it was a great game.
It will certainly be a big time football game. No shame in rooting for your school, even when you are surrounded by Dawgs….
By uga-brave
November 24, 2007 2:48 AM | Link to this
gil,
two questions? you have seen blanco and lillibridge both play. from everything i have heard or read blanco is pretty much a poor mans charles thomas. i know the organization is high on lillibridge but i kinda of see him being at the moment blocked. my point is maybe lillibridge has a super-sub role but we need some kind of veteran depth on the bench.
payroll is always exposed somewhere. got a bad feeling our bench is where it will be sacraficed.
if liberty media is serious about winning they need to make a serious statement early in their ownership. as NIKE said just DO IT.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 24, 2007 3:25 AM | Link to this
First of all, Gregor Blanco is not a bad player. He is still fairly young and has potential. At this point I see him as a forth outfielder but let’s be honest. That could change, as he gains experience he could become better. He has good range and a good arm. It is his ability to hit major league pitching that I would suspect is the concern. No, he is not going to get to some of the balls that Andruw routinely tracked down but I don’t think that is going to happen no matter who the Braves play. The Andruw Jones era is over.
Lillibridge on the other hand is not a guy you just trade away for a bag of balls. Again, it is his hitting major league pitching that would be the concern. He has all of the other tools necessary to be a star in the major leagues. he is a Biggio type player and even though he has played short in the minors the past few years, I think he could play anywhere on the field you want to put him.
Brent is a guy you package to get a top flight pitcher, not a bench player. I would not worry too much if he were to stay in the minors another year. he is what, 22 or 23? I guess you just have to see some of these guys in person to understand they are going to be stars when they get their chance. he is not as fast as some of the burners but he is a smart base runner.
There is another kid who came up late in the season to play second base for Richmond and unfortunately his name slips my mind right now but this guy has potential too. Made a couple of spectacular defensive plays in the field.
I have seen a lot of major league stars come through Richmond not just with the Braves but for many other affiliates. I don’t just watch the Richmond players.
I will be honest and say for every Lillibriges there are a dozen Charles Thomases. Often times it really depends on who is needed and when.
I thought Scott Thorman would be a better player than he is but for some reason he has fallen in love with the 500 foot home run ball and it is screwing up his plate discipline. I fear he is another Bo Bo Brezeal.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 24, 2007 3:42 AM | Link to this
While I am talking about the long ball, those long majestic swings are a thing of beauty when they connect. However, a smart pitcher uses that against a batter and will keep them off stride with a collection of off speed stuff and junk.
Greg Maddux should have proved to everyone that you do not have to be a 98 MPH flamethrower to be an effective pitcher in the big leagues. You have to have control and the ability to make the batter get himself out.
We all love the fire baller and the home run kings but realistically their success rate is not that great.
A quote I will let you ponder and digest if you will because anyone who has been successful in business will tell you this is true. “Consistent adequacy often out performs occasional excellence.”
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 24, 2007 3:52 AM | Link to this
One final point, bench guys are usually available for cash. I am sure someone will appear on the radar. I was really sorry to see Duane Ward opt to sign with the Cubs last year but he had his reasons. Let’s give the front office a little more time to sort that one out.
Now the main concern is to keep everybody healthy over the winter.
By ncscoots
November 24, 2007 7:33 AM | Link to this
Gil is probably thinking of J.C. Holt, who does possess an above-average glove. He probably doesn’t project well, though, and I don’t remember forming an opinion about him after seeing him in the low minors. Didn’t see him play at Richmond this year after his callup, though.
As far as Blanco goes, he would have to have made some serious strides in the last few months to make me a believer. Everything I’ve seen of the guy says ML pitchers will eat him alive. But, hey, stranger things have happened than Gregor Blanco improving, so I guess we’ll get to see what happens in the spring.
By TommyP
November 24, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this
Gil in Mechanicsville: You’re easily my favorite poster on here. I LOVE reading your reports/thoughts on our AAA minor league talent.
Any chance you could do a little rundown on your thoughts of the Richmond “notables” that we should be seeing in Atlanta in some way or fashion?
My wishlist to fill the current holes in the roster:
*Trade for Nate McLouth to patrol CF. Small deal for either Ronny Cedeno of the Cubs or sign Izturis on the cheap as backup SS. *
I definitely would be lighting up the Pirates’ phone lines if I happened to be Wren. They have a couple of guys that could fill holes for us besides McLouth. Jose Castillo could backup 2B/SS/3B. Ian Snell has been said to be on the market. Would Pittsburgh go for a Snell/McLouth for Chuck James/Thorman/B.Jones????? Not saying I really want to deal Jones before we see what he can do but Diaz has really looked good out there. Snell would give us a young righty to balance out the lefties in Hampton and Glavine and he is more of a power pitcher than what we have.
Baseball talk in November. Priceless.
By Lew
November 24, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Gil-Your posts on the Minor Leagues are a great addition to the blog. They would win you a Wurlitzer-if you hadn’t already win one!
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
Gil, fine posts in the wee hours, brother. Agree with you on Lillibridge; can’t believe some of the suggestions of trading a kid who seems destined to have a long, productive career in the major leagues for a bench player or as part of a deal for a middling pitcher, etc. Not gonna happen.
And by the way, folks, how many bench players have you seen sign contracts so far this offseason? Teams make those moves later, not at the start of the offseason….
Woke up to SNOW here in Kansas City. Wow. Not expecting that. And it’s still snowing. Those folks out at Arrowhead for GameDay are hearty — they opened the stadium parking lot at 7 a.m. for them to assemble, then they’ll have to leave when they close the gates after GameDay broadcast. Then they won’t open the gates again until 3 p.m.
And it’s not like Arrowhead is downtown with a lot of stuff to do in the neighborhood. There’s nothing in walking distance. Those folks all went out there just for that GameDay thing. Crazy kids.
KU cheerleaders look pretty nice, though, huh?
By eric the elder
November 24, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
I might be accused of being mushy, I suppose, but I want to pay some tribute to Chop Chick.
I started blogging with her several years ago before DOB arrived on the scene. In a way, she paved the way for DOB, and she can take some credit for getting all of this started.
Chop Chick is no DOB. She is not an insider, a beat writer, a stats wonk, or a pop music enthusiast. She, like the rest of us, is just an avid fan. She threw a topic out there, and we rushed in.
If you see this, Chop Chick, I want to thank you for all you did in settng the stage for this blog. Good memories.
By flange1
November 24, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Have fun at the game today. I am a Bulldog at heart, but I will pull for the Jayhawks today.
GIL,
Typical great stuff from you! Thanks for the Richmond connection!
By chris
November 24, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this
From what I gather from DOB’s piece, Schaefer portends to be an above average major league player. His arm accuracy is exceptional, but that’s the only thing about him that is. It must be the sum of his parts that has people excited. Anyway, it seems that he hustles and takes his craft seriously so he’ll get the most out of his ability. But it doesn’t look like we have a star in the making here.
By chris
November 24, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
Here’s what Keith Law said about Schaefer:
“I saw him in the Arizona Fall League and was disappointed at how short he fell of the hype. The ball comes off his bat well, but the part of his swing leading from his set point to contact isn’t consistent, and it gets long because he loads so deep. I like that he uses the opposite field and I think there’s 25-homer power in the bat, but Sizemore is one of those guys who’s just an obvious star, who stands out immediately when you see him take BP or shag flies. Schafer isn’t like that. That doesn’t mean he’s not a good prospect – he is. But he’s not Sizemore and he’s not one of the ten or fifteen best prospects in baseball.”
By flange1
November 24, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this
CHris,
We have had plenty of discussions about the Law article on Schaefer. Remember he say him play 1 game. Not a large sample size to make a decision.
If you have been on this blog for awhile, you wouls know what DOB, Frank Wren, Bobby Cox and other scouts have said about Schaefer.
Law is a bright guy, but he reallly likes to make statemants with a lot of pop to get people to read his columns.
I would rater read other items about a guy that believing a guy like Law that isn’t a scout. He is a reporter.
Just a suggestion.
By dadgum
November 24, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this
DOB…we will agree to disagree on a playoff in college football. Just the thought of Ohio State not playing for a month and a half then watch as they get pushed up the ladder into the championship game is enough to make anyone wonder if a playoff system is needed. Georgia meanwhile can get in by playing and winning and having others lose.
I’m not saying that the games haven’t been entertaining or the jockeying of teams hasn’t come to a good conclusion to date. Simply the system to get the true champion is broken and NOTHING short of a playoff will fix that in my opinion. Won’t go into the type of playoff needed. Not enough blog space or time.
Oh yeah, it is entirely possible to get a “real” champion from the BCS. I’m not taking anything away from Kansas. If they go 12-0 (13-0)or whatever they deserve the title game. Just that if Kansas loses to MO. and MO. loses in the championship game and Ohio State leapfrogs by not playing as many games. Well…you get my point. I hope.
By chrisklob
November 24, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
chris, you may want to take anything that Keith Law says with a grain of salt. He loves anything “New York” and hates everything else. In a recent article, he said that David Wright should have won the NL MVP.
He may be right in saying that Schafer isn’t Grady Sizemore. Few players are that special. But that doesn’t mean he won’t be good or even great.
By Anders
November 24, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
DOB Not sure how you mark me as obsessed with a topic that you wrote about. When you wrote about Schafer I responded in kind, did the same when you wrote about Chippers comments regarding the gold glove.I didn’t bring the Glavine topic up-you did. The fact that his statement basically reiterated what I’ve been saying all along may be tough for some like you to swallow but I can’t help that. Bottom line - what I hear in either the original scrubbed version you gave or the more recent full version was the guy left money on the table because he doesn’t want the responsibilty attached with those dollars and not just because he wanted to live in Alpharetta full time which is how you and many others portrayed it until this post. Apparently he does have the respect for Jeff Wilpon that I talked about recently as well or he would have taken the $13 mil or at least tried to negotiate a settlement. We do agree on one thing - life does go on.
By chris
November 24, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
I hear what you’re saying about Law. It makes sense to me.
If I’m reading DOB’s article properly, Cox and Law seem to be in agreement on Schaefer: good,not great.
By TexasBrave
November 24, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
Dr. Gil in Mechanicsville - I love those one liners. Aren’t you the one who said something about how hustle beats talent when talent doesn’t hustle or something to that effect. I have it written down at home. Your latest will also be written down to be used later. Thanks
By Paula
November 24, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
What’s the matter with being a “Good” player?
By chris
November 24, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Hey, I’ll take good. And with a kid who hustles and cares about improving, I like it even better.
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Chris, that’s not my read on Bobby’s scouting of Schafer: He’s saying that right now, the kid is above-average to way above-average in those areas he listed (most areas). You gotta understand, when scouts (or managers, GMs, etc) rate a prospect above average or good in particular areas, they’re rating him above average on a MAJOR LEAGUE SCALE, right now, compared to major league players; they’re not rating him as potentially above average in that area in the future. They’re saying right now, as a kid who’s not played above A-ball, he’s above average to well above average in several areas. That’s a very strong review in the context.
As for Law, I’ve just found several of the things he’s written this winter, not necessarily about the Braves but about baseball subjects in general, to be so off-base and so contrary to what I’ve seen myself and what others I respect have said, that I have to take everything he says with a vat of salt.
By David
November 24, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
What I’ll always remember about Keith Law was his first attempt at predicting the playoffs last year. He missed 5 out of 6 match-ups and even after the Cardinals had destroyed the Tigers, he was still saying the Tigers were the better team.
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
And Schafer, by the way, is at least a four-tool player, probably five, since he shows enough raw power to believe he could become 20-25 homer guy in the majors. He’s got the other tools in abundance….
Changing the subject, it now appears as though we’ve returned to full fiscal insanity in baseball salaries. So much for that (very) brief period when it looked like owners were determined to slow the ascendant salary path.
Just watch Rowand will end up getting $13-15 mill a year. Insanity. After Matthews got the $50 mill contract last year based on one great season. That worked out well so far, huh?
By bruce
November 24, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
Dave, Awesome article on Schafer this morning. Do you have an impression that he could develop offensively as fast in Atlanta in the right spot in the batting order playing every day as he could in Richmond? Or would you have concern that ML pitching might be too hard on his ego initially if he struggles a bit as he is learning?
My thought is you are saying he is ready based on your last line of the article, but I am not sure if you are saying bring it on for Spring Training or Opening Day. My impression from what you have written in other articles also would be that Frank Wren is covering the bases and will see what happens in spring training to make the call, if he does not sign a more veteran CF. But what I am verbosely asking is do you think he will be ready for opening day starter in Atlanta and learning OJT given the strengths of our starting lineup? Thanks, Bruce
By bruce
November 24, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Dave, Last off-season you really helped me make it through the drought by suggesting your favorite games from the previous season to go back and watch on mlb.com… which games from 2007 do you recommend? I know we have the excitment your coverage of winter meetings Dec 3-6 coming and the Rule 5 draft Dec 6, but it would be great to have the games handy when I hit those stronger withdrawal times. Thanks, Bruce
By David
November 24, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, I want to preface this by saying I’m a long time Braves fan going all the way back to attending games in the 1980s were we had Florida Marlins-type crowds. I am not one to wildly speculate about trades nor am I someone who is a fan of giving up a ton of young talent in trade. In fact, I’m still annoyed about the Teixeira trade costing us Elvis Andrus and Salty, several months after the fact.
Keeping that in mind, could you give an honest evaluation of the Braves’ interest in Santana? I realize that there are issues in terms of salary since we are no longer that type of big market, massive budget team. Isn’t he exactly the sort of guy this team has shown the willingness to splurge on over the past 16 years, though?
I read your comment earlier that Wren is saying all other deals have to come through him, but is it possible he’s keeping his cards close to the vest just as Scheurholz always did in trade discussions? As much as Atlanta has banked on anchoring their team with starting pitchers, don’t they have to be considering ways to make the pieces fit with Santana?
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this
one word of warning, Bruce: I wouldn’t count on ANY excitement in the Rule 5 draft. Braves haven’t made any moves of consequence in that draft for some time now. They might lose a player worth mentioning, but doubtful they pick one up….
As for Schafer, I wouldn’t rule it out, him being the opening day guy. I still think it’s unlikely, but watching him play, and seeing how he rose to the occasion with the bump to high-A this year, then how he hit against a lot of good prospects in the Fall League, I wouldn’t expect him to struggle too long if he was thrust into the major league lineup. Look what Francoeur did that first half-season when he was brought up. And McCann. Granted, they had more experience in higher minors. But Schafer’s a special talent, I do believe that.
By chris
November 24, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dave. I’m back to being excited about him.
By Shaun
November 24, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this
you may want to take anything that Keith Law says with a grain of salt. He loves anything “New York” and hates everything else. In a recent article, he said that David Wright should have won the NL MVP.
I’m not sure if Law loves anything New York or not. I have no idea where he’s from or which team he roots for. I know he worked for the Blue Jays.
I do know that there are quite a few non-NY people who think Wright was more deserving of the MVP over some of the guys who finished ahead of him in the voting. I’m one of the Met haters who actually thinks Wright was more deserving of the MVP than the guys who finished ahead of him. But if you disagree with the consensus on this blog, it means you are a NY lover or a Met lover. I was born and raised in the Atlanta area, my family was born and raised in the Atlanta area or in Atlanta, I have absolutely no ties to New York nor the Mets yet I think Wright was the most valuable player in the NL; but it’s ludicrous because there are people here who will think I hold that opinion for some other reason other than I believe he was the NL’s most valuable player.
As far as Law’s article, did he not give very valid reasons why he thinks Wright should have won it? I never saw in his article anything about him loving the Mets or New York, but maybe I missed something. Not hear to defend Law but seems like the Wright opinion is pretty valid based on the evidence we have on Wright’s season.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 24, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Keith Law , laying the nonsense down and keeping the sports tabloid (ESPN) in the news.
By Shaun
November 24, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
Oh, by the way, Law picked Chipper ahead of Rollins and Prince Fielder and Jose Reyes (whom he did not have in his top 10 though many of you probably do). I suppose he hates the Braves and loves the Mets.
By Shaun
November 24, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
What’s funny to me, there seem to be no standards or consistency in the MVP voting. “Wright can’t win because his team didn’t make the playoffs”, yet Howard won last season. “Wright can’t win because he didn’t help his team down the stretch”, yet he had a hit in the last 17 consecutive games and was tremendous in August and September. “Rollins is it because his counting stats were so impressive”, yet Holliday, Fielder and Howard had impressive counting stats just different ones and the counting stat that actually tells us how many times a hitter succeeds Wright was most impressive. Good thing there are some GM’s smart enough to actually know the meaning and definition of value in a player instead of using the standards (or lack thereof) of the voters to determine value.
By Tyler
November 24, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
Rollins won it?! Why not Hanley Ramirez……
By jim
November 24, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
Greatest college football game ever played:
Nebraska vs Oklahoma on Thanksgiving day (or the day after, and not sure of the year, but in the 1970’s) Okalahoma had a very good option quarterback in Mildren and featured Gregg Pruitt at running back. Their defensive line featured the Selmons. Nebraska had Johnny Rogers as a flanker back and some-time running back and Jeff Kinney as the main running back. Their defensive line had Rich Glover and another All-American and future pro whose name was something like Johanson. The game featured a great punt return by Rodgers (I think he had 2 big returns— one for a TD), and ended up 35-31 with the last team to have the ball (Nebraska)winning in the closing seconds. The two teams were ranked 1 and 2 before and after the game and both went on to decisively defeat the next best teams in the bowl games.
By Rex
November 24, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
Greatest college football game ever played: Nebraska vs Oklahoma
Never happened. Wasn’t played in the SEC.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 24, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the accolades folks. As far as assessments for Richmond players in Atlanta, most are already there. As far as Kieth Law is concerned, no talent evaluator worth his salt would make a definitive assessment based on one observation of his performance.
Watching a pretty good game now between Va Tech and Virginia.
I wish I could take credit for the quotes, I try to attribute them to their know source when I can.
I will give you one of my favorites right now that an old African American man shared with me when I was about 18, it has been one of the most profound. He said “always keep a good car and a good woman because if you don’t, they will both go out on you”.
By Lew
November 24, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
Shaun-Of course you realize that MLB’s Writers choose the MVP the way they do just because they know it will drive you crazy, don’t you? Unpredictability is the name of the game. Jimmy Rollins was deserving, as were Holliday and the others (even Wright, though it pains me to say this). That’s the way it goes. Please don’t develop a formula-and if you do, don’t try to sell it to MLB. I like the old way-keeps life interesting.
By ppaddy123
November 24, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this
hellooooo……anyone home?
By TexasBrave
November 24, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this
DOB - I know you are probably already at or going to the game, but just wanted to wish your Jayhawks good luck. I will be rooting for them to join my Sooners in the Big 12 Championship game.
Although I hate to say it, I think Missouri will be too much for them.
Go Jayhawks!!!
By Nelson
November 24, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
Hey Friends: Since Andruw started playing with the Braves we have never ever won a world series! so he definetely is not such as important factor or a key piece that we need or die! He is one of the best or the best glove in center field, in a pure offensive team he plays a big role, but unfortunately looks like paying that money he is asking, do not worth what we get in return! At this moment for me he is a rotten apple in a team that many of his young players are starting to mature. I prefer a young and more dinamic offensive player! even if we lose some deffensive quality (sorry he make me sick!). Since 1995 other teams have won the WS so we can also do it without him! The big concern here is a solid No. 3 Starter that can give us a chance to compete in the post-season, and everybody knows that Glavine is not that guy!
By Deep Throat
November 24, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
Hampton leaves game with pain in a leg.
For the second inning Hampton no longer left to launch due to a disturbance in one of his legs leaving your site Mario Mendoza Jr..
http://www.ehui.com/?c=5&a=85281
The site is not in English, but the above came from Google Translation. Mike Hampton left the game early with discomfort in one of his legs apparently.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 24, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this
How Bout Dem GAWGS !!!!! LSU/Arkansas last night and now Tennessee/Kentucky today. No doubt , no other Football Conference could produce two epic games like this back to back. The SEC is simply the best. I’ll be pulling for Kansas tonight because if they win , it can only help the DAWGS move up in the polls.
By robdawg06
November 24, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this
Guaranteed contract or not any player thats hurt every year should be released. It was stupid of the Braves to make that deal with the Rockies/Marlins and take on Hampton’s overvalued contract anyway. I guess they made their bed and are now sleeping in it ? It seemed like a great deal because other teams were paying the first couple of years of his contract. But after a 3 year DL ride and possibly a 4th this year, you evalute the deal DOB. It stinks.
Go Dawgs ! They should be #4 or #5 in the BCS standings Monday. Ga. Tech sucks as usual…
By JJMB
November 24, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
Yes, the SEC is definitely the best conference in the world, solar system, milky way, known universe. Coach, those two games were unbelievable!
Robdawg, there’s no need to disparage the Jackets. Although they (we) do suck, Tech operates under a panoply of different circumstances as does UGA. Maybe Gailey is gone now.
I really like Mark Richt, and I am glad for his success.
Now, the border war. It should be a dilly!
By Lew
November 24, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
Any day that ends with a Dawgs win and the chance to move into the Top 5 is a good day. Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!
By Edgar
November 24, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this
I watched Keith Law, the other day on ESPNEWS, he said about GLavine that if he doesnt get 6 inches of the Outside corner he’s “extremely hittable”. Its obviously that for his comments on Glavine, Schafer and the Braves overall he loves new york.
By chrisklob
November 24, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
robdawg, Once again, you continue to dazzle us with your ignorance of the game of baseball.
Guaranteed contract or not any player thats hurt every year should be released.
Well, this is a very interesting statement. If Hampton had been released when he was first injured, the Braves would have not been able to recoup any of his salary. He made (notice I did not say “earned”) $28m in 06 and 07. It has been estimated that the Braves were able to recoup between 50% to 75% of his contractual obligation from insurance. That would mean that over the past two years they would have received between $14m and $21m in insurance payments. Now pay attention, because this is important: if they had released him they would have had to pay the entire $28m, without the benefit of said insurance.
It just wouldn’t have been a good business decision to dump him at any time in this deal. MLB salaries are G-U-A-R-A-N-T-E-E-D. That means that once both parties sign on the dotted line it’s a legal, binding contract. Braves are on the hook next year for $15m, whether he plays or not (unless he retires). Cutting him will not absolve them of their financial responsibility.
Oh, and please don’t say something stupid like they should trade him. Who would trade for a guy with an injury history like Hampton?
It was stupid of the Braves to make that deal with the Rockies/Marlins and take on Hampton’s overvalued contract anyway.
Another false statement. Braves control Hampton for a total of six years for a total of $48m. Technically, they paid virtually nothing to him in the first three years of this contract. But DOB has stated here previously that for accounting purposes, the Braves spread his salary obligation over the six years for approximately $8m due each year. Let me ask you this, in today’s dollars would you like to have a pitcher that can go 14-8 with a 4.28 ERA or 13-9 with 4.28 ERA for $8m a year? That’s what Hampton did in 03 and 04, respectively, and there was no reason at the time to think that he couldn’t do it in 05, 06, 07, or 08 either. In fact, you might have heard that they signed a guy just this week that has put up similar numbers recently, for about the same amount of money, and most people think the Braves got a great deal.
But after a 3 year DL ride and possibly a 4th this year, you evalute the deal DOB.
Did this deal turn out as well as JS would have liked? Of course not. But wouldn’t it have been great if JS had had a crystal ball before he made that trade? Hey, if you can predict the future, then I suggest that you look into your crystal ball and pick tonight’s lottery numbers. In hindsight, this deal pretty much stunk for every party involved. JS was lauded as being a freaking genius when this deal went down. He got a front line starter for 6 years while only paying $48m and giving up two guys that were going nowhere.
Dude, for the past couple of days you’ve been posting trash on here. Please get your facts straight. If you feel I’ve been a little harsh, I apologize. I’ve spent the past three days with my monster-in-law. ‘Nuff said.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 24, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this
What Keith Law doesn’t grasp or understand is , Glavine is supposed to be hittable. He has never been a strike out pitcher , Glavine is a thinking man’s pitcher on the mound. Living on the corners , getting the batter to hit his pitch.
Even when Glavine gets behind in the count , he will not give in. After being around for as long as he has , the man understands that when most hitters get ahead in the count , they are looking dead red (fastball).
Glavine has an outstanding change up which is his bread and butter pitch that he uses with devastating effect. Throwing it when he gets behind in the count and inducing weak ground balls and harmless fly ball outs.
Glavine’s uses his slider to get ahead of batters and to set up the other two pitches. He has also reinvented himself in recent years with the addition of a cut fastball , enabling him to work both sides of the plate.
Glavine is an artist on the mound much like Maddux , using his experience and ability to locate his pitches where he needs to. Basically , he can locate , change speeds and work the corners.
Sounds like a Hall of Famer recipe to me.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 24, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this
chrisklob You are aware of the definition of stress aren’t you? That is to suppress the urge to kick the s**t out of someone who desperately deserves it. There are many out there who do not have ulcers but are known to be carriers.
By chrisklob
November 24, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this
Gil, good evening, good denizen. Me and stress don’t agree much. I find that I suppress it too often and it reinvents itself in other ways. Perhaps I was a bit too harsh, perhaps not. There is only so much that one man can endure! Besides, easy targets shouldn’t be left alone.
DOB, sorry to see you Jayhawks lose. At least it was a good game. They made one hell of a run and should be proud of their efforts.
By ppaddy123
November 25, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this
1,#2,and #6 loose. #3 wins solid #4 wins big and #5 doesn’t do a damn thing! Can’t wait to see the new BCS rankings next week! Yeah, we don’t need a playoff…..MY A$$By BabyGoatEater
November 25, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this
I read a lot of what Keith Law writes. Not because I like what he writes but because I like to see what people who obviously don’t care about The Braves think about The Braves. His opinion is based on one look at a minor league player , who he probably didn’t come to see in the first place. That for-mentioned player seemed to make some type of impact on Keith to have him mention him in a article. Thats more of an impact than 99% of other minor leaguers do. He apparently thought enough of the kid that he had to write something about him. Since the Braves seem to have a OK record on knowing their prospects, I’ll take their word on the issue. Since Mr. Law isn’t a scout anymore, I won’t take his. You have to wonder about a guy that used to be the special assistant to a major league team, and now is just a “part time” writer for a gossip-full media outlet. Apparently he wasn’t so “special”.
By David O'Brien
November 25, 2007 1:04 AM | Link to this
Well, that sure didn’t turn out as planned. KU gets to 11-0 in large part by playing mistake-free football, then shoots itself in the foot for most of the night in the biggest game of the season. And still, until that safety was tacked on at the end, the two missed field goals were the difference in the outcome.
Oh, well. Great second half. Not much fun watching that first half. Cold as a milkshake out there tonight. Freezing-toes cold.
I think Chase Daniel probably won the Heisman with that performance tonight. Dude is stellar.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 25, 2007 1:26 AM | Link to this
DOB I feel your pain bro….. Well, not the cold part but yep, hate it when a team hurts its chances to win by making mistakes.
Remedy for cold night in the stadium… Hot tub, hot toddy and a hottie…. Repeat as needed…..
There are a lot of 1 and two loss teams out there right now I would not want to play. Some schools however, have been living on their reputations for a long time, good to see some new names appear in the mix.
By Braveheart
November 25, 2007 1:51 AM | Link to this
Bummer about Kansas DOB. Would feel worse for ya if Bama did not lose for the 6th freaking year in a row to Auburn. 4 losses in a row to end the season - a choke job in the last 3 minutes against LSU, that horrendous loss to mississippi state, that horrific loss for the ages against LA Monroe, and then the travesty that is losing to auburn for the 6th year in a row. oh yeah, i’m feeling that saban magic overwhelm me right about now.
but i did catch some glimpes of the KU game. it really played like a basketball game. team gets smoked early seemingly intimidated by the big stage and then makes their valiant run but falls shorts. gene hackman mangino should have whipped out the measuring tape to let his team know the basket was still ten feet high in kansas city like it is in lawrence.
chase daniels would make for an excellent point guard with the way he runs the show over there at missouri. reesing is really good as well but he kind of played the beginning of that game the way bobby hurley looked in his first crack at Duke against UNLV. Maybe Reesing can turn it around on Missouri at the end of next season like Hurley did to UNLV the following year. the big stage can be overwhelming the first time.
watching the few parts of the first three quarters I did of that kansas game during commercial breaks for the Bama game, I could not help but strangely think of a weird quote from Larry Brown during the magical 1988 run of Kansas to the national title.
During the 1988 game, the announcers said that Larry Brown’s profound words of wisdom to his team were Don’t Be Afraid To Win. That made no sense to me at the time. Still doesn’t to this day for the most part because who would be afraid to win?
But watching Kansas in that first half, I could not help but wonder if Kansas was playing like they were afraid to win or were they playing like they were afraid to lose.
Dunno. I’m still trying to figure out if Larry Brown’s words of wisdom to his team made any sense whatsoever. Whatever he did worked that year though. Can’t say the same for the job he did with my Knickerbockers however. His words of wisdom with the Knicks must have been something like don’t be afraid to get yourself fired and walk away with $40 million dollars.
As for Bama, they were not afraid to win or lose, they just suck.
By TennesseePaul
November 25, 2007 2:03 AM | Link to this
What a Thanksgiving! I was unplugged from the world. Got back and found Hunter signed. Johan on the block. Estrada to the Mets. Cordero to the Reds. Braves talking about turning center over to a rookie with A ball experience. I guess you can’t have it all.
I find this interesting. Glavine, former Union Man, speaks bluntly about his pay. Basically saying that at 13 million a season, that #1 starter pay doesn’t seem right since he doesn’t feel like a #1 starter. So he turns down #1 starter pay. $13 million. Wonder if the union gets bummed on him for pegging #1 starter pay at $13 million? Probably not too much, but I find it ironic.
UT is SEC East champs. Not sure if anyone had posted that yet. I know how much yall love UT.
By joebrave
November 25, 2007 2:39 AM | Link to this
TennPaul,I love Ya man But I don’t think that the Big Orange wannabes have much luv here!!!That said We do appreciate,the favor tonight,It’s going to be Really Nice,to see UGA in a top tier Bowl Game possibly playing for the National Title,and Ranked higher than the SEC title game,participants…BCS stands for BULL CRAP SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!
By rich brave
November 25, 2007 5:15 AM | Link to this
GIL:
Noting your comments on Lillibridge, and Blanco. As I have posted here before I think Lillibridge should take Woodward’s place on the bench this coming year. He’s got the leather now, and maybe his bat will come around during the year. But as of year end ‘07 he’s was not ready for prime-time. I don’t think Blanco will become a ML regular. He may improve, but he’s no Escobar. If there are trades to be made, he should be part of the package.
By doc
November 25, 2007 7:55 AM | Link to this
brveaheart it says sometimes people are afraid of success. happens every day in life, folks get sidetracked wondering if they deserve it or can keep building on success. they then go a shoot themselves in the foot and destroy all they worked for.
dave i figured you would be bone numbing cold at that game, shame it didnt turn out better. now if oklahoma can trip up mizzou next week then the pollsters will have that much more fun trying to “match” the correct two teams for the “championship”. this year football will have what it wants a whole off season of folks saying they were the best in football and for the most part being correct. what a crazy year starting with michigan losing and nbc having to carry all of notre dames games of zero wins against academy schools, tow wins only coming against pac 12 schools and duke. cant say a better man than charlie deserve that one.
dob please clarify the glavine salary thing again as most continue to say he turned down 13 mil. didnt he really have 3 mil of that 13 mil in hand when he nobly turned way from the mets and began looking for the hometeam discount? or was that a misinterpretation of your note early in the morning that i read early in the morning and may have misunderstood.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 25, 2007 8:14 AM | Link to this
rich brave Welcome home. It really depends on who they are trading for. I think I have said as much many times. Their success is dependent on how well they hit. First year rookies hitting about .260 is great. To have one hit over .300 is phenomenal. That is why contenders do not like to start two rookies in the same year.
The Braves have always brought along at least one young player each year. What I am saying is Lillibrige has the highest ceiling of any rookie on the team. I have repeatedly said his only question mark is going to be if he can hit major league pitching.
From the looks of the pitching depth of most rosters, that may be a reality 3 out of five starts. I don’t see anyone out there right now worth making a big trade for right now. It really depends on who you want to sign next year.
With all these $100 million dollar contracts being bandied about, many teams are really laying it on the line that one player is going to carry their team for the next 5 years. All it’s going to take is one inside pitch to break a hand, one bad hop, one awkward slide or one slick mound and they will be toast for years.
Anyway, a belated happy Thanksgiving and I hope the traffic was not to bad on your trip to New York.
By Shaun
November 25, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this
Lew, it’s not about a formula; it’s about a consistent definition and standards of valuable. One year the voters will pay a whole lot of attention to one thing and ignore something else. The next year they will pay a whole lot of attention to what they ignored the year before and ignore what they paid a whole lot of attention to. One year they will vote for one guy primarily because he was the key player on a playoff team even though a lot of his numbers look worse than others. The next year they will vote for the guy with the better numbers. Often times they will look at this number but ignore that one. Unpredictability is fine but at what cost?
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 25, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this
Shaun Unpredictability is what drives people crazy. It is what forces some of these players to hire P.R. people. In order to sell a product, you sometimes have to build a perceived need for that product.
It is why Heisman trophy winners are often a bust after they sign for the big bucks with the pros. They never seem to live up to the expectations or perhaps they think they no longer have to work to stay ahead of the curve.
Like the man for Macon said, “People who work hard can beat those with talent that do not work hard”.
By rich brave
November 25, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
GIL:
Hope your Turkey Day was a good one for you and yours. Searched for Trolls around the Brooklyn Bridge. Thought I had Drool spotted at one time, but no such luck.
Are you up for a trip to the Danville Braves once this season? They’ve got a nice facility there and maybe we can get a glinpse of Hayward for the future. I want to take my grandson’s to give them a little idea of lower minors competition.
RICHMOND 31 EASTERN KENTUCKY 14 in the I-AA Championship Series playoffs. On to the Elite Eight. Dave Clawson’s a marked man.
By Lew
November 25, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this
Shaun-At what cost? Dude, we still have an MVP-one that many feel was a justifible choice. If Wright had won it would have been justifiable. Same goes with Holliday-or Chipper, or Fielder. There was just no clear cut choice this year in the NL as there was in the AL. That’s the way it goes sometimes. It is the nature of the baseball beast.
ChrisKlob- “Reinvented Stress”-new garage band, right?
Dude-I revel in giving you a hard time-no doubt about it. I love watching you foam at your cyber mouth. But please-you DO want it reduced to a formula and it just can’t be done. Besides, you still couldn’t account for variables-the one aspect guaranteed to rear it’s ugly (read human) head. Diversification, Dude. It’s what makes us all unique. Thank God (or whatever Diety you may or may not choose) for that. Maybe Rollins won because he talked the talk and then backed it up. There are worse reasons.
By Salty
November 25, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
Reinvented Stress - New band…good one, Lew!
Chrisklob, dude…give it up with Robdawg…pointless waste of your energy and intellect. :-)
I wish I could claim the following, but it definitely works on a number of levels…especially the blog! Never argue with an idiot because they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
DOB Right on about Daniels…although McFadden has a strong case, too. Sorry you lost, but there were a bunch of teams that would have loved to be in KU’s position last night!
By Lew
November 25, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
I don’t know what happened on that post-the Reinvented Stress was supposed to be the last comment. Just to set it straight-I revel in giving SHAUN a hard time, NOT ChrisKlob.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
November 25, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
Here’s a question for everybody. Lets say the Twins do decide to trade Johan Santana. They trade him to Red Sox for Bucholz and Ellsbury/Crisp. That would mean the Sox’ rotation is: Beckett, Santana, Dice-K, Schilling, and Wakefield with Lester as the “sixth” starter. If that did happen would it be a good move for the Braves to go after Wakefield? The Red Sox exercised the extension on is contract for 2008, which I believe is somewhere between $4.5 and $5 mil. As far as I’m concerned a guy like Wakefield is a steal at that price. What do you guys think?
By rich brave
November 25, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
Gil:
Sounds like we are in agreement re: Lillibridge. He’s got to work on his hitting, but ML pitching is where it should be.
By Lew
November 25, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
Salty-Glad you liked it. How about “Disenfranchised Rebel” or “Emotionally Shortchanged”, or one inspired by my Avian companion-“Dramatic Parrot”? Now if I could actually tune that guitar sitting in the corner of my studio.
By Yars
November 25, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this
The Braves are not going to let Lillibridge ride the bench while he could be at Richmond playing everyday. They will likely go out & find some lesser known player to back up SS. I get the feeling Prado will be given every opportunity to be one of the utility infielders. I just hope Bobby doesn’t use him in a platoon role at 2B with KJ. I can understand why Bobby had a platoon at 2B for most of the second half last season, since KJ was mildly slumping in the latter half, but for 2008, there is no need for a platoon at 2B. KJ is the everyday 2B, & yes, he can hit LH pitching. Prado is no Yunel when it comes to hitting. now playing: Plowed by Sponge.
By humbug
November 25, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
The main thing MLB needs is caps.Put a cap on salaries at one million, tickets at ten, beer at three, and hot dogs at 2. The seats would be filled with real fans instead of corporate blocks and inner city freebies.
By Shaun
November 25, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
Lew, I agree that Rollins is a fine player and there were worse choices. But the biggest problem for me is consistency with how the voters define ‘value.’
By Lew
November 25, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
For all who actually think we could go after Santana. It has been reported that he just turned down a four year $80 million contract offer from the Twins. It is said that there is still a huge gap-that Santana is looking to top Zito’s $126 million contract, maybe heading towards $150 million. No way we could afford him- Certainly not if we signed Tex.
By TexasBrave
November 25, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
Robert (Justice Is The Best) - Good heavens NO!!! I had a cold shiver go up my spine as I read it. Please don’t offer suggestions like that again.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 25, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
rich brave Sounds like a plan to me. Which league is Lynchburg in?
By Braveheart
November 25, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
TexasBrave, what is so wrong about any proposed idea of getting Wakefield? That dude has been invaluable to the Red Sox for 13 seasons. He is not great and not awful. He can start or relieve on a moment’s notice. He is just average but he keeps his team in games. If we can’t add another great pitcher, what is so wrong with adding an average pitcher who keeps his team in the game and gives the pen some rest and gives his offense a chance to do their thing and win? Plus, as a fan, my perception of Wakefield is that he is egoless. He could care less about when or where he pitches. He is the anti-Wickman. I don’t think the Braves will be adding Wakefield but the idea of adding him is not crazy at all.
By rich brave
November 25, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
YARS:
Having seen Lillibridge here in AAA, I’m not quite sure how much more he can benefit from AAA pitching exposure. In my original post in October re: Lillibridge, I felt he was not ready for prime-time with the bat. Thought one more year necessary, but AAA pitching is not ML pitching. There’s a big gap in my opinion between the two. It all depends on how much progress his bat has made since October. If there’s improvement definitely fill-in on Atlanta’s roster. Otherwise, start in Richmond with a call-up as needed. You know every year some middle infielder(or two) sustain injuries for an extended period. I believe being on the bench where Braves ML coaches can work with him closely is important at this point. Like GIL from Mechanicsville has said and with which I concur, Lillibridge has the best potential of all the R-Braves at the end of ‘07 season. Also like GIL, I know the Braves almost always like one rookie in training on the team each season. And I think he’s the keeper, not Prado, or Blanco for that matter.
By Yars
November 25, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
Man, look at our starting pitching depth chart. We don’t need another SP. I’m thinking optimistic in that Hampton will be ready for spring training with no setbacks, & will not get rocked in spring training games. Even if he isn’t ready, we’ve got plenty of others to look to. Braves not going to pursue Wakefield. Sure, it’s fun to suggest it, but it ain’t gonna happen. Hell man, I’m hoping that Schafer gets every chance in spring training to prove that he should be the opening day CF, either him or Josh Anderson.
By Yars
November 25, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
rich brave…..our starting infield is set. Lillibridge is not a candidate to break camp becoming the starting CF. I just can’t see the Braves keeping him on the bench while he could be at Richmond playing everyday, whether it be CF, SS, 2B, ect…
By TennesseePaul
November 25, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
joebrave: Aye. The Vols won’t be national champs. But, they won the East. For about 13 years or so, that was a big deal in Atlanta. And it appears everyone here is excited that this Braves team has a shot at reclaiming the East title, not being built to win the WS, but just the East title. So, at least winning the East is something. It’s certainly better than nothing.
By Lew
November 25, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Shaun-As long as there are intangibles or variables of any type and the voters are not some part of a collective cloning program, there will be differing views of what constitutes value. That’s OK with most of us-we really enjoy the unpredictability factor. You, however, have continuously attempted to reduce life itself (yet another not so subtle allusion to 70’s rock-think OD’ed on it) to some type of arcane or esoteric formula-a Metaphysical One Size Fits All (and yet ANOTHER obscure musical reference for all you Zappa fans) manner of computation. It will never happen and the world would be a much worse place if it did.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 25, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Yars rich brave is right when he says there is a big difference in the pitching in the minor leagues and the majors. The other significant difference is in the umpiring. Some of the playing surfaces are rougher depending on the franchise so errors tend to be higher.
The Atlanta Braves spent a lot of money in Richmond the past few years trying to make the playing conditions similar to Atlanta. The stadium plays long though. You really have to crush the ball to get them out of the park. Pawtucket on the other hand is a band box.
It is my intention to visit Durham this year. Might take in a Norfolk game also. It is about the same driving distance (time wise) from Richmond as DC and Durham. Norfolk changed affiliations last year from the Mets to the Orioles. The Mets moved their AAA affiliate to New Orleans in the PCL.
There is a lot of baseball around me, just have to make the time to go.
By JerseyGil
November 25, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
I glad that humbug bring a new perspective of the games with his post of they will be a cap in baseball, they should be in my opinion, i just sick & tired of the big Market team get in the big bug player(Angels,Yankee,Boston,)etc..this bring the market out of wack for the other market team, in ticket prices and the other thing around the marketing of baseball, last year the only i can afford was 6 games for two ticket in three different cities(Phil,Atl,Was)baseball like humbug said is for big 500 corporate that have the best seat of the house and also those big ticket company that buy the ticket in bold to resale with a profit. Also fan are change, now you can found fan that is not interest in the game they always talking in his cell phone , and buying and get up ten thousand time during the game that getting attention to the games, hardly you can anyone in the stand that want to talk about baseball anymre. Like DOB Said dude is November, who care who will be ours center field next season or if Hampton will be on shape for opening day or not. Marry Xmas Everyone SEE YOU IN ORLANDO IN FEB 2008
By Lew
November 25, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-I doubt we really need or could use Wakefield, who was hurt a good bit late in the season, missing much of the playoff series. He would, however, be a good pick up for the Mets or Nationals. Don’t know if Omar would take a chance or not, seeing as Wakefield is not Hispanic. It WOULD be a good move for the Less Than Amazins, though.
By Braveheart
November 25, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
There won’t be many at bats for Lillibridge up in the majors next season ….. especially early on. Yunel figures to play 150 games, KJ about 145 games, and Chipper about 130 games.
I want Lillibridge up in the majors but I don’t want them stunting his development either. Lillibridge only drew 40 walks combined in AA & AAA last season in 592 plate appearances. That’s Frenchy-esque. And he struck out 119 times. That’s also Frenchy-esque. Well, actually, he strikes out more per at bat than Frenchy does in the majors. The problem with that is that he does not have Frenchy’s power.
Lillibridge, by all accounts, is a major talent. But the Braves and Lillibridge would probably be better off with Lillibridge regaining some of the selectivity he showed in the lower levels of the minors back in 2006 when he drew 87 walks in 585 plate appearances.
For a guy with only modest power, he won’t be able to help the major league team until he can draw a walk like he used to be able to. Batting average is nice but not that helpful unless combined with a good OBP and/or good SLG. Lillibridge needs to be able to draw 60, 70, 80 walks a season to go with a .280 or so batting average and a .440 or so SLG.
I hope Lillibridge is not one of those college guys that can have success early in the minors because he is older and more experienced than the average teenaged A ballers straight out of high school but becomes overmatched in AA, AAA, and the majors when confronted with players as old, as experienced or older and more experienced.
By Shaun
November 25, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Lew, my problem is not that there are differing views of what defines value but the inconsistency of the views and that ‘value’ is not really the correct term for the award.
The criteria change from year-to-year. One year the primary reason to vote for a guy is this set of stats or that one, then the next year it’s because a guy was the key player on a playoff team, then the next year it may be a totally different set of stats that weren’t considered the past couple of years.
By chrisklob (Lead singer of Reinvented Stress)
November 25, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
Lew, I guessed that your last comment wasn’t directed to me although I did wonder a little about the placement between two paragraphs to Shaun.
Salty, I don’t remember seeing him on here before. I guess you do. Hope I wasn’t too hard on him (haha).
Never argue with an idiot because they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
Dude, are you trying to say I’m an idiot?
By Shaun
November 25, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
Lew, also a one-size-fits-all formula isn’t what I’m asking for. I’m asking for the voters to actually make the award about value and not hype or something else.
Value in a baseball player is how much that player is worth in terms of winning and doing things to contribute to winning. I can certainly understand if the voters think Rollins did that in 2007. But it’s just funny to me that the rationale against Wright is that his team missed the playoffs yet they voted for Howard the year before over a guy who’s team made the playoffs. Or that the voters use some of Rollins’s counting stats yet ignore other players’ rate stats or counting stats that are just as telling if not more so in terms of determining value.
By chrisklob (Lead singer of Reinvented Stress)
November 25, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I think you’re right on with your post on Lillibridge. I don’t think they’ll bring him up just to sit on the bench and get the odd pinch hit or infrequent start. That will not help him develop the strike zone recognition that he evidently needs.
I hope Lillibridge is not one of those college guys that can have success early in the minors because he is older and more experienced than the average teenaged A ballers straight out of high school but becomes overmatched in AA, AAA, and the majors when confronted with players as old, as experienced or older and more experienced.
My guess is that if the Braves think this may be the case then they’ll move him before he is exposed. They’re famous for trading away their big name prospects before everyone else figures them out (see, Andy Marte, Jose Capellan). In fact, I’m surprised that anyone would accept a trade involving Braves prospects anymore! Very few of them amount to much in the majors.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
November 25, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this
Sorry I’m late folks, but there seems to be a on-going 3-day celebration party in the Natural State. There is a buzz radiating throughout the state right now like I have never ever seen in my life. Wow, what a great time to be a Hog fan!
Darren McFadden probably won’t win the Heisman, but he made a HUGE statement against a team that was allowing a little over 76 rushing yards/game:
206 rushing yards and three touchdowns on 32 carries. He also completed 3 of 6 passes for 34 yards and a touchdown. He flat-out violated their defense in their own house. Take away the overtime stats and here’s what you’ve got (rushing):
180 yards and two touchdowns
Oh and don’t forget 85 rushing yards on only 9 carries from Felix Jones.
It’s a shame the Hogs couldn’t have won another game or two to put D-Mac in Heisman contention, but that’s the way it happens. I’ve posted it many times on these blogs, but it bears repeating…the man is an absolute beast.
By laurance maney
November 25, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
I will be so relieved when AJ signs with someone else. But if all you guys down there still suffering from Majestic Diner Withdrawal Syndrome think Coco Puffs or Chone Figgins will solve anything get your meds upped. You clowns got 10+ years of Gold Glove centerfield, 360+ HRs, 1000+ RBIs and probably 200-250 games out of AJ with injuries that would have put Chipper on the bench and the immortal JD Drew in a rehab and you were never happy. AJ was too fat, to lazy, too slow, too good-natured and on and on. He’ll sign on with someone soon and hopefully play for a manager that will put him up, not down in the order, sit him down when he’s hurt and manage him to his strengths not to some unrealistic expectation. Good luck.
By TexasBrave
November 25, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
chrisklob - Except most of the ones the Braves keep ie Frenchy, McCann, KJ, Escobar. I agree, the Braves have the uncanny (sp) ability to evaluate whether or not a prospect will make it or not in the Bigs.
Can someone name a prospect that the Braves let go in the last 5 years or so that has gone on to do will in the Majors? I can’t, but that is not saying much.
By brian
November 25, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
Lillebridge will either start in AAA awaiting a call up in case of an injury or start in the majors. He will not be a bench player. If the Braves feel Lillebridge is ready to start in the majors it will be either at CF or 2B. If they feel he is ready and ready for 2B then either KJ or a LF will be moved
By TexasBrave
November 25, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
Braveheart - Although Wakefield has eaten a lot of innings and has done well for Boston, I can’t help shake the sight of him floating a nuckle ball on a tee to see whether or not someone will crush it or not. I mean his success depends on whether or not a hitter can hit a nuckle ball and not his pitching talent. Where other pitchers can get hitters out with a well placed pitch. With him it is a crap shoot.
By your daddy
November 25, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
humbug, you sound like a good socialist… capitalism is what makes the U.S. the last remaining superpower. don’t blame the players, blame the owners who PAY the players. they must be making TONS of money to pay them like they do…
ask yourself this question: if someone offered you $15 mil. a year to do your job, whatever it is, would you turn it down because ‘nobody should make that much money’? i think not…
By Salty
November 25, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
chrisklob No, you were not the ‘idiot’ target…I was trying to save you from the torment!
Lead singer, huh? OK…youtube anytime soon? Lew…need to tune up that guitar…Wurlitzer’s must wait! Song titles…not bad, close, but try this as the headliner: Emotional Discharge! by Reinvented Stress…kinda flows…no? Lew, I bet you could do those lyrics…think some of the Mets trolls and let your feelings flow! Follow up song can be “Night on the Knob”…a ‘self-portrait’ tune by the klobber himself!
By chrisklob
November 25, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
Texas Brave, Adam Wainwright is the only one that comes to mind, but there may be one or two others. Of course, there are some guys like Andrus and Harrison that the jury is still out on.
Salty, “Night on the Knob” might need some explaining for some of the folks that don’t know me! They might get the wrong idea.
“Emotional Discharge”, I like it! Keep it coming.
One problem though, I can’t sing at all. No chance of anyone wanting to listen to us. Maybe I should be the promoter since I don’t play an instrument either.
By hk
November 25, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
UGA #4 in AP and USA at this hour both by comfortable margins … figure Harris will also be #4, computer guys #5 behind Kansas, but #4 in overall BCS …
… if UGA gets 4th in the BCS, Okla beats Missouri (60% prob), Pittsburgh beats WVA (30% prob), it’s UGA / Ohio State in the BCS !!
… if one of the above lose, think UGA / USC in the Rose, if both win, Orange ..
By mo in the boonies
November 25, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
Watched the Kansas game last night, even conned the spouse into staying up to watch the whole game with me. I think Kansas just got out coached. Several times when the camera was on the QB, when he was looking off sides to the coaches, he looked like he was thinking “You want me to do what?” and the head coach looked like he was dazed and didn’t know what the he!! to do. Then when the defense was in the game, the quarterback was on the phone to the coach in the booth, and he was getting his a** chewed. I really felt sorry for him, it just seemed like nothing was working for him, and he was not used to that happening. I thought maybe in the last half they might come back, but they just ran out of time. And the Missouri QB really had everything falling in line for him. It was a scrappy game though, you could tell that they were big time rivals.
By rich brave
November 25, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
CHRISKLOB:
Yours of 1:51 p.m. I’ve had the same thoughts regarding trades with the Braves - and more than once. When one team consistantly dangles what appears to be Filet Mignon on a stick and it turns out to be Chuck Steak why would any GM listen to the enticements eminating from the team with the “good” player. In Lillibridge’s case, he might be the “Filet” used to get somebody elses fireballing young pitcher since practically everyone is of the opinion(NOT my opinion) we don’t have 150 million for Santana’s contract. I agree that’s a lot to lay on the line for ONE ARM. And maybe the organization knows something we don’t regarding that arm, at least I hope they know more that I do, ‘cause that ain’t much!!
GIL: Just checked and everyone wants to take a day trip to Danville to see the Infant Braves. Will keep you posted.
By rich brave
November 25, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
TEXAS BRAVE:
Don’t we need Wakefield to teach Glavine a new way to reinvent himself while Glavine’s teaching the young arms how to soft-toss around the black? Sarcasm here.
By cricket
November 25, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this
UGA is ranked no. 4 in the BCS.
By Greg in TN
November 25, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
Afternoon lads and lasses…
Gil, I heartily recommend a trip to Durham when you are able to take the drive down. The ballpark is downtown, they have a ‘Blue Monster’ in left field and a second generation bull sits on top of the monster to entice right handed power hitters (the original which was featured in Bull Durham is mounted somewhere on the concourse, something I didn’t realize until after I had left, or I would have hunted for it for a photo). The original Durham Athletic Park is also intact and is a short drive away.
If you get the chance, I’d also recommend a stop in Zebulon to see the Mudcats (AA affiliate of the Marlins). The ballpark is out in the middle of nowhere, however I was able to drive up on game day, get a front row seat behind the plate and everyone was very nice to an ‘ol Tennessee boy.
DOB, sorry about the game man. Doesn’t diminish what Mangino has done with KU this year at all.
TennPaul, those last two games of the season aren’t pushovers anymore and I guess we just had to have that fourth quarter comeback and all of the OT drama. Still, good grief I’m getting too old for this!
By roan st
November 25, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
DOB, sorry but Kansas got to 11-0 by playing zero competition, mistake free football aside. I said last week that Kansas would get exposed as soon as they played a decent football team and that’s exactly what happened. Unless the BCS gives them a gift game like Hawaii then they will have loss number two after their bowl game. Now I think missouri is a pretty good team but in no way are they the best team in the country. Maybe mizzou can beat oklahoma but West Virginia will take em to the woodshed if they play for the national title. The three best teams right now are West Virginia, USC, and maybe Georgia. And if there was a playoff system Florida would be a dangerous team late in the season. But it looks like there will be at least one overrated team ( OSU or mizzou) in the BS national championship game.
By dadgum
November 25, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this
Any other questions about the need for a playoff system…didn’t think so. Wake me when this self-absorbed BCS thing is over. The games are great the system sucks. Nuff said…..
By David O'Brien
November 25, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this
HK, if you think Pittsburgh’s beating W. Va., you’re dreaming. That’s not happening….
Gil, very true about the Durham ballpark. And yes, the original, old dump was a very cool ballpark (where they filmed Bull Durham).
Roan St.: Yeah, right. Whatever, Mr. Myopic.
And it’s actually OU (Oklahoma) with a chance to win the Big 12 and a get to the title game, not OSU (Oklahoma State).
By David O'Brien
November 25, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly, agreed on McFadden — a beast, and very exciting to watch them play because of him. Him and Adrian Peterson, if they can stay healthy, are the types we could be talking about decades from now.
By Fred Secunda
November 25, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this
Actually DOB, OU is Oklahoma, and they have no chance of making it in the BCS title game. OSU, an in The Ohio State University (not Oklahoma State), can get in the BCS title game. What we have here is a misrepresentation of OSU teams.
By David O'Brien
November 25, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this
Good point, Secunda. My bad. Hey, long night and day, brain’s not functioning properly yet.
I’ve been in Big 12 country, where OSU is Okie State. Sorry about that, Roan St. My bad. Guess I sounded almost (but not quite) as tunnel-visioned as you.
Still, Ohio State, Oklahoma … I’m gonna guess it’s all about the same to you anyway, right? (not within three-hour driving distance of Dothan, not real football? No, wait, Gainesville is the exception. That’s a bit longer haul.)
(Hey, just busting your chops.)
Anyway, hey, J-Hawks stunk for a half, and dug themselves too big a hole. Reesing looked a bit too geeked up for his first performance on the really big stage. Daniel badly outplayed him. Just too many mistakes on offense.
Mizzou’s a very good team. I’d like to see them play West Virginia — it’d be a helluva shootout.
By TexasBrave
November 25, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this
chrisklob - Yea the jury is still out on those guys, even Wainwright IMO. I still find it hard to believe as good as the Braves have been able in developing kids down on the farm and evaluating them for possible big league play that they would package anyone they did not believe would be a major contributer to the big league team.
Why let Andres go if he so much better than Escobar? Or why when we have such a pitching need both now and the near future would they trade away Harrison. Even Salty who everyone was so high on got traded before McCann. I mean if Salty was indeed better than McCann would they have not traded away McCann rather than Salty?
IMO we have some very good evaluators of talent in the Braves organization.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 25, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this
Having Lillibridge is smart. I mean , what happens (God forbid)if Chipper Jones goes down for a significant amount of time ? Escobar moves to third base and Lillibridge is the SS.
Georgia is number four in the BCS rankings , I expected fifth at best.
By BabyGoatEater
November 25, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
The only prospect that I believe will come back to haunt the Braes is Salty. Of course where would he have played? McCann is a much better “pitchers” catcher, and he hits so well. Salty, I believe, is just a good hitter. Might be great one day though. I know players especially catchers learn a lot in the big leagues but, I still don’t see Salty becoming a great “pitchers” catcher. Therefore I still think they made the right decision for this (and last) year by trading him. He might be great one day though (at 1st base)
By robdawg06
November 25, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this
chriskolb, I’m well aware of the Hampton deal and it was exactly what I said. We got him from the Rockies and they agreed to pay his first two years salary. Then he got injured and now the Braves are paying him millions for nothing. Ok, so you want to say the Braves are saved with insurance ? Whatever. All I know is that he was on the team injured for 3 years. That’s a fact. No production in 3 years. I also remember the Braves paying Bruce Sutter millions after he was unable to pitch. So its nothing new for the Braves to make bad pitching decisions on hasbeens. And stop telling me about the guaranteed contact stuff. If he can’t pitch why keep him on the team ? You come to grips with losing the $15 million and move on. A bunch of managers get fired and still get their guaranteed money. Its no different with Hampton.
Dawgs spanked Tech for the 7th year in a row ! BCS bound and ranked #4 ! Go Dawgs ! And as a lot of people have said here if Kansas or Ohio St. played in the SEC they would have 3 or 4 losses easily. These other conferences usually play weak teams. You play LSU,UGA,Fla.,Tenn.,Auburn,and Kentucky every other week and you will have several losses.
By chrisklob
November 25, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this
robdawg, you clearly do not understand why the Braves have handled the Hampton situation the way that they have and frankly, I have neither the patience or inclination to explain it to you any further.
Releasing Hampton would be the stupidest thing that they could have done.
By robdawg06
November 25, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this
Plus you stat nerds that look everything up and then blog are annoying. I’m going totally off memory. I may have a few things out of order (the years or dates with Hampton’s contract) but I’m right about it was a bad move for the Braves. You guys think just because he was covered in insurance and injured all is fine. Well he was expected to be the #3 starter last year and the year before. His getting injured every year screws up the rotation and forces other moves to be made. They had to use Davies and Carlyle because he was injured. It throws the whole rotation and bullpen into a flux. I think Hampton hurt his calf in Mexico… What’s new ?
By Lew
November 25, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
Shaun-Re: your 1:39 post, second paragraph-you’re absolutely correct and THAT is what makes the no system so great-it is adaptable. Last year, Ryan Howard had a monster season (though you heartily disagreed to THAT, too) and no one had as good an individual performance. This year, Jimmy Rollins won because of his invaluable contributions in putting the Phillies on his back and carrying them (especially while Utley was out at a crucial time), after loudly informing everyone that the Phillies were the team to beat. He not only carried them, he flipping dragged them by the scruffs of their necks to the division title. That, to many voters (and myself), was the one single defining quality (this year) that made the difference in the vote.
It is probably not possible to come up with the system you desire (or if you could, it would be somehow incomplete) and it would certainly take the individuality out of the process, which is what many treasure. Sometimes our ideas of what constitutes value differs from yours, that’s all. BTW Dude, have you had that first argument with your wife?
By chrisklob
November 25, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
First of all, I am not a stat nerd. BUT I do not go on to a blog where there are knowledgeable people and write things without doing a little back up work to make sure that I have a point. This is very much unlike you, who continues to come on this blog and pollute it with whatever you happen to pull out of your a*!!!! There is nothing wrong with making fact-based statements, especially if those stats are part of your argument/discussion.
You guys think just because he was covered in insurance and injured all is fine.
No dumbass, I never said that everthing was all right because insurance was covering his contract. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
Was the Hampton deal a good one or bad one for the Braves? Well, it surely didn’t work out as well as they planned. If JS had known that Hampton was going to miss three years or so, maybe more of this contract he would have never made the deal. As smart a guy as he is, he couldn’t have predicted what would have happened. It’s not fair to JS to criticize him for a player being hurt, especially when that player didn’t really have an injury history.
Oh, and if you know anything about Mike Hampton and what a competitive guy he is then you’d know how unhappy he’s been sitting at home on his sofa while wasting away his days.
By Short Bus Driver
November 25, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
Plus you stat nerds that look everything up and then blog are annoying. I’m going totally off memory.
yeah, why look things up to make sure you know what you are talking about? you are right robdawg. that is sooooooooooo annoying. better to just wing it and make an a@@ of yourself everytime you post. why would you look things up when you can just wing it and rely upon the memory and thought process of a borderline mental retard?
I may have a few things out of order
understatement of the year.
BTW, what time is the short bus picking you up in the morning?
By roan st
November 25, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, OSU means Ohio State University not oklahoma state and it was in reference to the national title game and not the big 12 championship. GEEZ. Kansas 11-0 start consisted of teams with a combined record of 50-80 and only two teams with winning records. One of those teams was central michigan which lost to clemson 70-14. The other was a 7-4 texas tech team. During that 11-0 stretch Kansas did not play a single team that is currently ranked in the top 25. Just stating the facts so don’t shoot the messenger dude. They had a good season but should have never been ranked #2 in the country is all I’m saying. We need a playoff system because it is unfair to the teams that play tough schedules. And your’e right I am near sighted but not when it comes to overrated college football teams.
By Lew
November 25, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
Robdawg-Annoying because we actually take the time to look something up before we put our feet in our mouths like you? Do you even know how to do research, or did they not teach you in the three years you attended school?
I absolutely love it. I was just reading an article I linked to from my Yahoo home page about what one Mets’ writer (I think Ken Davidoff?) thinks that Omar should do to fix the Mets.
First of all, he thinks they should trade Lastings Milledge, Heilman, their number one almost ready pitching prospect Kevin Mulvey and a lower level prospect for Dan Haren of the A’s. I can just see the A’s absolutey leaping on THAT one. Next, he says they should trade Carlos Muniz, who may be their only ML ready reliever in the minors and a lower level prospect for Jose Contreras. I can definitely see the White Sox jumping all over that one, too.
Third, he says they need to repair the bullpen (no sh!t if they trade Heilman and Muniz who ARE there bullpen), but has no idea who they should get, but should not give multi year contracts for middle relief. But he also says that hopefully Duaner Sanchez will be back. Right. Let me know how that works for them.
This still begs the question of who they will get to play right field (remember, they traded Milledge for Haren) and whether or not they will still have a farm system at all. Yeah. That’s what Omar should do, all right. Talk about wishful thinking and then still having to wish some more. And we think some of the ideas we see are bad.
By BabyGoatEater
November 25, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
For all you Chuck James Haters out there….. Braves Pitchers: Five Highest by VORP
Tim Hudson 59.7 John Smoltz 56.7 Peter Moylan 31.7 Chuck James 28.7 Rafael Soriano 20.9
If you put anything into Value over Replacement stats…….
By chrisklob
November 25, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
Lew, greetings good denizen. That first trade you mentioned can’t happen. Haren’s not Hispanic. That seems to be a prerequisite for Minaya.
Oh, and just so everyone knows, I didn’t look that one up, “I’m going totally off memory.”
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 25, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this
To all those who clamor for a play off system in the BCS devision of football: Don’t we already have a playoff system now? By what criteria would you pick the participants? Would you just invite only teams from the SEC?
It appears that the current system gets it right most of the time. The only time the system gets skewed is when Notre Dame gets thrown into the mix because of their huge fan base.
No, the playoffs begin with week one and continue thru the conference championships. Someone will get left out but oh well, play better all season.
Face it guys, the majority of college football programs are revenue streams for the schools. Why else would you pay the football coach 10 times what you pay your department heads?
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 25, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this
BabyGoatEater Okay, I’ll bite, what does VORP stand for?
By Braveheart
November 25, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
By what criteria would you pick the participants?
Take the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, ACC, PAC 10 and split those conferences into two divisions. The ten winners of those ten divisions go the playoffs. The conference champions of the other six conferences go to the playoffs. There is your 16 team field and take it from there. This would of course mean that UGA would be excluded this season which is bizarre because they just might be the best team but I believe this is the fairest, least subjective way to do it. Deserving teams would be excluded but shut up and win your division or conference. If you don’t win your own conference or division, you don’t belong in the playoffs. This would also maintain the integrity of the current regular season by keeping every game meaningful. It would also promote the idea that teams should rarely play outside of their conference until the playoffs which would add to the mystery of how everyone will fare against each other in the playoffs.
By BabyGoatEater
November 25, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this
Gill,
In short: “a measurement of the number of runs he has prevented from scoring that a replacement-level pitcher would have allowed”
Long: Full Definition
I think it’s useful but would like to hear what you think about it.
By BabyGoatEater
November 25, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
I know Chucks VORP is half of Smoltz and Hudson but….we’re not asking him to be Smoltz or Hudson. I think a first year pitcher to be half of Smoltz is pretty darn good though.
By TexasBrave
November 25, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this
Braveheart - Not bad except it leaves out a chance for the three independents.
How about each conference champion gets an automatic birth (11) then the other 5 at-large births are decided by who has the higher BCS rating with no limit on how many teams of one conference are in the tournament. This at least gets one team from every conference then rewards those teams who play in difficult conferences like the SEC.
So perhaps your beloved Dawgs get in.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 26, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this
Patriots 31 Eagles 28 and it was one hell of a football game.
V.O.R.P. is nothing more than a comparison stat that equates the value of a player compared to his peers. It applies more to position players than pitchers.
ERA works just fine for me when it comes to equating the actual value of a pitcher.
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this
Robdawg, maybe there’s a blog out there where the regulars wouldn’t call you on your asinine suggestion that Hampton be dumped after he got injured, but this (thankfully) is not that blog. The folks here are just too savvy about knowledgable about the rules of baseball and the economics of baseball to simply let you spout the nonsensical suggestions without responding to them.
I mean, do you realize that while he was making the money over the past two years, roughly half of it was paid by insurance? And you realize he did not clog up a spot on either the 25-man or 40-man rosters, because he was on the 60-day DL for almost the entire time? (he was never on the 25-man roster during the past two seasons, so not once did they use a spot on that roster for him).
So they paid about half of his salary while he rehabbed, and not one player, coach or manager ever said anything, on or off the record, other than lauding the man for his worth ethic and continued positive attitude about coming back.
So explain again what good it would have done to “cut” him when he got hurt two years ago, or a year ago, or now?
If they had cut him when he had the first surgery and when it was known he’d miss the entire 2005 season, it would have cost the Braves $43 mill in guaranteed salary he was owed over the 2005-07 season (they would have had no claim to insurance if they cut him). If they cut him after the 2006 season, they’d have owed him $29.5 mill for the 2006-07 seasons.
If they cut him now, they’d owe him $15 mill.
Again, he’s not occupied a spot on the roster for two years, because he was on the 60-day DL. So please explain again why it would’ve been smart to cut him?
Oh, yeah, and just so we’re clear: The Big 10 is a weak football conference, in your view? Just want to make sure I’ve got that one.
No tradition in the Big 10, huh? OK, cool. Got it.
By Wayne in Utah
November 26, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this
Most important scores from the weekend, Clemson over SC, and Jazz win at Detroit!
My 2 cents worth…..
By TexasBrave
November 26, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this
OK because I am not remotely tired yet to go to bed, I took what I said above and put them into a bracket. I determined conference champs by who has the better conference record. Ties by overall record then highest BCS ranking. I gave them a seed # by their ranking in the BCS poll. Seed # in parenthesis. Here it goes.
(1) Missouri (16)Central Michigan
(9) Oklahoma (8) USC
(12)Hawaii (5) Kansas
(13)BYU (4) Georgia
(3) Ohio St. (14)U. Central Florida
(11)Boston College (6) Virgina Tech
(10)Florida (7) LSU
(15)Troy (2) West Virgina
Of course we don’t have true conference champs yet so it will be interesting to see how everything shapes out at the end of next week.
This was just for fun guys, don’t berate me too much :-)
By Scooter McNutts
November 26, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this
Just so all know that I’m a nerd. I did check Webster’s so I can’t be accused of going totally off of memory here on this one!!!!! :-)
myopic: shortsighted
denseness: thick, dull, stupid
myopic denseness:robdawg06
ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!
By Jason barber
November 26, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this
when all is said and done I GUARANTEE YOU BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT IN HEAVEN THAT ANDRUW WILL 1)FIRE SCOTT BORAS AND 2) WIND UP BACK IN CF FOR THE BRAVES ON OPENING DAY… THE ONLY REASON THE BRAVES EVER SAID PUBLICLY THAT HE WASNT IN THEIR PLANS TO BEGIN WITH WAS SO THEY COULD SEE THE OFFERS HE WAS GETTING FROM OTHER TEAMS AND MAKE HIM AN OFFER HE COULDNT REFUSE ITS CALLED BLUFFING PEOPLE.. THE BRAVES ORGANIZATION HAS NO INTENT WHATSOEVER OF EVER LETTING HIM PLAY FOR ANOTHER ORGANIZATION AND ANYONE WHO CANT SEE THAT THE BRAVES ARE BLUFFING IS LIVING UNDER A ROCK
By Jason barber
November 26, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this
when all is said and done I GUARANTEE YOU BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT IN HEAVEN THAT ANDRUW WILL 1)FIRE SCOTT BORAS AND 2) WIND UP BACK IN CF FOR THE BRAVES ON OPENING DAY… THE ONLY REASON THE BRAVES EVER SAID PUBLICLY THAT HE WASNT IN THEIR PLANS TO BEGIN WITH WAS SO THEY COULD SEE THE OFFERS HE WAS GETTING FROM OTHER TEAMS AND MAKE HIM AN OFFER HE COULDNT REFUSE ITS CALLED BLUFFING PEOPLE.. THE BRAVES ORGANIZATION HAS NO INTENT WHATSOEVER OF EVER LETTING HIM PLAY FOR ANOTHER ORGANIZATION AND ANYONE WHO CANT SEE THAT THE BRAVES ARE BLUFFING IS LIVING UNDER A ROCK
By Jason barber
November 26, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this
when all is said and done I GUARANTEE YOU BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT IN HEAVEN THAT ANDRUW WILL 1)FIRE SCOTT BORAS AND 2) WIND UP BACK IN CF FOR THE BRAVES ON OPENING DAY… THE ONLY REASON THE BRAVES EVER SAID PUBLICLY THAT HE WASNT IN THEIR PLANS TO BEGIN WITH WAS SO THEY COULD SEE THE OFFERS HE WAS GETTING FROM OTHER TEAMS AND MAKE HIM AN OFFER HE COULDNT REFUSE ITS CALLED BLUFFING PEOPLE.. THE BRAVES ORGANIZATION HAS NO INTENT WHATSOEVER OF EVER LETTING HIM PLAY FOR ANOTHER ORGANIZATION AND ANYONE WHO CANT SEE THAT THE BRAVES ARE BLUFFING IS LIVING UNDER A ROCK
By NOLIE
November 26, 2007 5:46 AM | Link to this
DON’T HOLD YOUR BREATH JASON, UNLESS OF COURSE YOU LOOK GREAT IN BLUE
By Gil in Mechanicsville
November 26, 2007 6:59 AM | Link to this
Good morning all, All these statistical citings leave me groggy and confused. I can only go by the tried and true, does he get beat like a drum but is incredibly lucky because everything seems to find someone’s glove or does he give up seeing eye hits that fall in by inches or are just past the outstretched glove of a defender.
The most telling stat to me is: Does he walk people? Nearly every pitcher is going to make a mistake but to do so with two guys on base via the free pass ahead of that mistake only complicates it.
Bottom line, is the guy a winner? Some pitchers win because their team’s offense keeps them in games. Some guys lose because their team’s defense does not make the plays on the routine grounders up the middle that should have been turned into double plays.
This does not even take into account the pitcher living on reputation so he gets those close calls on the outside of the plate by a myopic umpire.
Give me a guy who is not afraid to throw strikes and has the mojo to win. Who makes the other team beat him, not fold like a cheep lawn chair because the other team gets a lucky hit.
By rich brave
November 26, 2007 7:18 AM | Link to this
Jason Barber:
Yours of 4:02 a.m.
Earth to space cadet. Hello - anybody home?
The lights are on in your spaceship and I see your pearls of wisdom displayed before me so obviously your brain took a vacation. Post again when you start using it.
By CharlieAlphaBravo
November 26, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this
DOB: Thanks for the holiday blog. Great reading in between turkey and turkey-left-over induced comas. It amazes me that it’s pretty much the same stuff I’ve been reading for the past month or so, but you still manage to squeeze a little more insight and commentary out of it. Couldn’t possibly be more psyched about the ‘08 season. Wren has certainly impressed so far during his short tenure.
Sorry about your ‘Hawks. Gotta be devastating to lose such a big game to the bitter rival, but there’s still a heck of a lot to be proud of. I’m pretty sure if someone had offered to trade a loss to Mizzou for 11 wins, anybody wearing blue would’ve taken it and run. I know it still stings though. Coming from a certified bulldawg, I know how it feels to lose to a team you absolutely loathe. Too many long rides back from Jacksonville. Don’t worry though, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, and the silhouette of a decapitated tiger. See, not all of us SEC-elitists are total a**holes.
Finally got the new Jason Isbell solo debut (“Sirens of the Ditch”) off Amazon, and absolutely loved it. It doesn’t all have that “Muscle Shoals Sound” that was so popular with the DBT swathe, but still an incredibly strong first effort. I wasn’t crazy about the first three songs on the album, but the rest is absolute gold. The early tracks will definitely get another chance to impress though, because the CD will likely be on repeat for the next few weeks or so. I always hold off on the final analysis until after the ceremonial “second listening.” Starting to get a little long-winded, but I have to suggest one more thing. I don’t know if you’re into the pseudo-electronica rock genre, but if you haven’t ever heard of the band Muse, you should give them a shot. Their 2006 effort “Black Holes and Revelations” has a Radiohead-style appeal, but with the whine-dial turned way down, and the mid-life-angst-dial tweaked up just a bit. You know, it’s like… For men.
Anyway, that’s enough for me. Go Bravos!
By nOLIE
November 26, 2007 8:18 AM | Link to this
Good morning all, All these statistical citings leave me groggy and confused. I can only go by the tried and true, does he get beat like a drum but is incredibly lucky because everything seems to find someone’s glove or does he give up seeing eye hits that fall in by inches or are just past the outstretched glove of a defender.
GIL I don’t know how into stats you are but ratios like WHIP and SO/BB/IP give perhaps the best indication of a pitchers effectiveness. ERA is more easily influenced by extraneous events especially in relievers. Over the long haul you will get an idea of how good a pitchers stuff is, and “good stuff” IS the good stuff.
By chris
November 26, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this
I love how anyone who questions the usefulness of Chuck is dubbed a “Chuck James Hater”.
I think there’s a good chance that Chuck won’t have any more value than he has now. He went backwards last year. People cite Glavine’s stats at a similar age, but Glavine got better in his second year. It helped that Glav had a brain and a work ethic.
And if Hampton’s arm hasn’t exploded before the end of spring training, Chuck will be at the back of the rotation. He may have more value in a trade than he does in the 5th spot. I hope he doesn’t get traded unless it’s for pitching prospects.
Beyond next year: Glavine and Smoltz will likely be gone. Why not keep Chuck around? Well, he’s the same pitcher as Reyes. There’s only room for one in the rotation. You can’t run two guys out there who will give hitters the same look.
As DOB has pointed out, it’s unlikely that Cox and Wren will keep him around as the swingman out of the bullpen (even though it needs lefties) because he doesn’t throw enough strikes and gives up tons of dingers.
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this
Why not keep Chuck around? Well, he’s the same pitcher as Reyes.
Are they really the same pitcher? All of the minor league and major league results say otherwise.
By chris
November 26, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
They’re both lefties who are fastball/changeup pitchers, with fastballs in the low 90’s.
By Anders
November 26, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
This was from an article in the Alpharetta Gazette over the weekend:
Tom Glavine did not carve the turkey for his family this Thanksgiving. When asked why he said “I just don’t feel I can carve like I used too and I don’t want the pressure of delivering a well carved platter of turkey to the table”. Mrs. Glavine stepped in and carved the bird. Tom did however whip the mashed potatoes and therefore did contribute (however ancillarily) to a wonderful meal. Tom also reported that he felt much more comfortable back at the kiddie table this year as opposed to the adult table where he spent the last 5 pressure packed Thanksgivings
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
last 5 pressure packed Thanksgivings
did you mean to say the last 2 pressure packed thanksgivings? the three before that were not so pressure packed because the mets stunk. of course he had 12 pressure packed thanksgivings before he moved to new york.
In related news, Glavine said “I’m not devastated about the way the turkey turned out but I am disappointed. Devastated is a word used for greater things in life than a turkey. I was disappointed in the way the turkey turned out.”
By CC Rider
November 26, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this
Websters Dictionary- Definition: Anders. A New York Mets blog poster who misinterprets quotes by Hall of Fame pitchers. Also See: Moron, Misanthrope.
By Anders
November 26, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this
Braveheart
In related news, Glavine said “I’m not devastated about the way the turkey turned out but I am disappointed. Devastated is a word used for greater things in life than a turkey. I was disappointed in the way the turkey turned out.”
Good stuff! Touche.
By DAP
November 26, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this
chris They’re both lefties who are fastball/changeup pitchers, with fastballs in the low 90’s.
wrong. james is a fastball/changeup pitcher who tops out at 90. reyes tops out at about 93 and has command of four pitches. hes also bigger and has a very different delivery. reyes is like a left handed kyle davies, minus the weak mental makeup.
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this
as for jojo vs. chuck, it’s great to be a “stuff” guy like jojo but give me the “results” guy like chuck everytime over the “stuff” guy.
By nOLIE
November 26, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
Why not keep Chuck around? Well, he’s the same pitcher as Reyes.
Are they really the same pitcher? All of the minor league and major league results say otherwiseBraveheart
no they aren’t. Their mechanics and look are nothing alike, and Reyez has better stuff. No worry in that regard about keeping both. If Reyez can harness his stuff I think he is a notch better than James, but then I only see James as a 4/5 guy anyway. But with the ages and medical histories of the front-line guys, they shouldn’t just waste Chucky in a trade for a backup guy either IMO
By nOLIE
November 26, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this
s for jojo vs. chuck, it’s great to be a “stuff” guy like jojo but give me the “results” guy like chuck everytime over the “stuff” guy.
depends mostly on control. The stuff guy will be better if his control/command is close to the same as the other guy. If Reyes learns command he will likely be better, but then there have been any number of guys who never developed it enough. Too early to know for sure about either one of them really, but as you said they are definitely different type pitchers. maye we’ll get lucky and they both will develop into plus guys
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
nOLLIE, i think long term the Braves have a better chance of success with JoJo but for next season the Braves are better off with Chuck James at the bottom of the rotation instead of JoJo.
By Carolina Gent
November 26, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
This just in from an everyday blog reader and occasional contributor… IMHO I’d much rather have Tom Glavine be honest about where he is right now, placing himself as a #3 starter or so, more than, say, a Roger Clemens, who bills himself as not only a #1 guy, but an overwhelmingly dominant #1 guy, gets paid accordingly, then pitches more like a #4.
Who would you rather have? A guy that’s long on bravado and short on performance or a guy who is honest about his capabilities, but is normally a bulldog out there on the mound anyway?
As for all the speculation about AJ, though it might be an interesting experiment to try him out in CF for one more year, what makes us think that this year, if he was back with us, would be any different than last? Assuming, for arguments sake, that he was back for a one-year agreement (which I really can’t see happening, but we’ll go with it to make my point). He’d once again be in a contract year, and someone (I apologize that I don’t remember who it was) put up some stats that showed how AJ did in contract years (not so good). And I can’t see the Braves making a long-term commitment to him that would approach anything that Boras would let him go for, so I assume that (or something close to it) is why the Braves are saying a polite, but firm, “thanks for the memories! Goodbye and good luck.”
One more thing, for DOBeat Writer or anyone else out there in blog-land. Does it seem to any of you that the Braves are perhaps trying to upgrade their speed a bit? I sure hope so. I don’t think that the play-for-the-three-run-homer-inning approach is going to work for the long haul and goodness knows, we sure need more speed than we’ve had the last few years, especially since Furcal left.
DOBeat Writer, sorry about your FB Jayhawks, I was rootin’ for ‘em. Hope they get a good bowl game with a decent matchup and come away victorious.
By ppaddy123
November 26, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this
Anders you’ve been dreaming up that Glavine-Turkey day story all weekend, Haven’t you? If I were grading your story, I’d give you an A for your effort, but an F for originality. Dude, you have beat that horse long enough……we get it, Glavine’s a big quitter….blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Please, we all request that you move onto a new subject. Or, you can keep railing against, you know who, and the dog piling will continue. Is there anyone on here, that posts regularly, that hasn’t disagreed with you? My motto is this: if one person has a problem with you, maybe it’s them. When the whole blog has a problem with you dude, it’s you…..let it go.
Robdawg my advise to Anders goes double for you…..these guys eat, sleep, and drink baseball info. You don’t always have to agree with their interpretations concerning some of the stats they’ve posted, but they usually have taken the time to look up the stat, before giving us an opinion. Not shooting off their mouths because they think they know EVERYTHING!
By ncscoots
November 26, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
it’s great to be a “stuff” guy like jojo but give me the “results” guy like chuck everytime over the “stuff” guy.
Yes, good thinking. You can teach pitching, but you can’t teach tools. What you are saying is that you would rather have a guy who has maxed his potential (“results”) over a guy who has the capacity to get better (“stuff”).
Neither of these pitchers project to be anything more than mid-rotation guys, but at least Reyes has some potential to be more than a journeyman. Chuck would have to have a pitching epiphany to do so.
By rich brave
November 26, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
Comments re: CHUCK JAMES.
He pitches up in the strike zone. DINGERS WAITING TO HAPPEN. I believe Braves management thought he would learn to pitch up more selectively, and develop a third pitch to go with his current repetoire. From comments made about his attitude toward his craft I’m guessing management was wrong.
CHUCK are you listening? Can’t hear you buddy. Do something before I can’t SEE you either!!
By Anders
November 26, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
ppaddy 123
Thanks - I’ll take your thoughts under advisement. Say hello to Diddy for me.
By ppaddy123
November 26, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
Anders …..no you won’t….that’s why we’ll all continue to ridicule you. Must be fun to be you, NOT!
By RBrave
November 26, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
Can’t see missing Andrews’ bat. It looked like HE missed it most of last year. Look at his avg with men in scoring position. a lot of his hits and HR’s were run aways, either losses or wins. Glad he and that stupid grin after hacking at one 2 feet outside is GONE !
By DAP
November 26, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
ncscoots What you are saying is that you would rather have a guy who has maxed his potential (“results”) over a guy who has the capacity to get better (“stuff”).
yeah. thats absolutly right. ill take a proven .636 winning percentage pitcher over a guy who is at .500 and has a CHANCE to improve. when talking about results, it doesnt match up to talk about how guys PROJECT. projecting where a guy will end up is just a guess.
the truth is, no one KNOWS where either of these guys will end up, and if they will be good pitchers. unlike reyes, chuck james has a great track record, and should be appreciated for that! what makes you think chuck james is going to get worse? maybe he wont improve, but maybe he will pitch slightly better than .500 ball his whole career. thats not bad. there are alot of pitcher that have worse than .500 records that some bloggers want to trade for.
i think chuck will have a good but not great year in the 5th slot and solidify his spot in the braves rotation for years to come. my prediction is a 12-9 record with a ERA hovering around 4.00
By bruce
November 26, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
Dave, Thanks for your thoughts on Schafer possibly being the opening day CF. It is very encouraging that we have prospects knocking on the door and that it will be ok if Mr. Wren is unable to find the right fit trade to get a short timer veteran for center field.
Here’s an idea for a blog: A Preview of the Offseason for Braves Fans or How to get through till Spring Ball. It could include some intro of what you expect from your perspective of the winter meeting, including how the process works, give us a visual of who is there where they hang, how they share info, etc,(your blow-by-blow last year was really exciting to read/follow/anticipate). Also a list of your favorite games from 2007 and briefly why for those of us with MLB subscriptions who can go back and watch and have the need to watch some Braves action to get through the lull and build anticipation, other key dates in the off-season and what happens at those times and then any side-poop you get from chatting with players during the off-season… I really liked your Smoltz quotes about Glavine signing, really builds excitment and anticipation… thanks alot, Bruce
By Kentavo
November 26, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
I have not read this entire post, but has anybody thought about Scott Podsednik as a stop-gap CF? White Sox just DFA’d him. Is he healthy?
By Lew
November 26, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
Y’all-I’ve been somewhat mystified about the lack of appreciation for Chuck James by the Braves’ fans. It has seemed to me, especially after all the stats Braveheart and myself have posted, a totally unreasonable position for knowledgeable fans to take. Yes, Chuck has room for improvement-as do all ML ballplayers, as do we all. However, let’s compare Chuckie to some of his NL LHSP contemporaries and see how he stacks up. I think this will prove enlightening and possibly surprising to many of you. I have included the top LHSP from all NL playoff teams and most teams from our division (except the Nats). Here are the results, based on the TEAM’S record in games they’ve pitched, along with their ERA’s. Anything more is too much for this early in the day. Fill in whatever you want on your own.
Cole Hamels,Phil.- 19-9 3.39 ERA
Jeff Francis, Col- 22-12 4.22 ERA
Chuck James, Atl- 17-12 4.24 ERA
Tom Glavine, NYM- 18-16 4.45 ERA
Jason Marquis ChC- 19-14 4.60 ERA
Jamie Moyer, Phil- 15-12 5.01 ERA
Dontrelle Willis,Fla- 16-18 5.17 ERA
LA Dodgers (all LHSP)- 20-39 6.15 ERA
The DBacks and Padres did not have any LHSP listed on their rosters, currently, though I suppose you could count David Wells. We know how THAT turned out, don’t we? As you can see, Chuck stacked up quite favorably with NL LHSP. Quit b!tch!ng.
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
scoots your points are well taken but which guy would you rather have next season: the results guy who has hit his ceiling or the stuff guy whose ceiling may never be better than the results the results guy is giving already?
i’m tired of the “stuff” guys and “potential” guys. just gimme some damn results. chuck james has given results regardless of whether he has hit his ceiling or not.
the braves wasted 41 starts the last 2 seasons on “stuff” guys and “potential” guys like Davies and JoJo. The Braves were 15-26 when they started with a sky high ERA while the Braves were 28-20 in Chuck’s starts with a respectable ERA.
By nOLIE
November 26, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
i think long term the Braves have a better chance of success with JoJo but for next season the Braves are better off with Chuck James at the bottom of the rotation instead of JoJo.Braveheart
you might just be right
By Efrim
November 26, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
NcScoots
Neither of these pitchers project to be anything more than mid-rotation guys, but at least Reyes has some potential to be more than a journeyman. Chuck would have to have a pitching epiphany to do so.
Agreed. I’m getting real tired of bloggers acting like James is an emerging star like Matt Cain or Justin Verlander. The guy gave up 32 home runs in 161 innings. Not to mention he only gave us 161 innings last year. He killed the pen last year, which in turn, doomed the Braves in the middle months of the year.
I hope Reyes, Jurrjens, or Bennett beat him out for a rotation spot next spring. I figure Bennett will take Oscar’s role in the pen and Jurrjens or Reyes will have to overtake Chuck. The Lowe’s story ain’t too funny either. Dedicate yourself to pitching and maybe you will make it through 7 innings more than 2 times in 2008.
I get embarrassed when Braves fans call Chuck a #3 starter.
By Kentavo
November 26, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
I agree with the folks who suggest Chuck James isn’t the brightest bulb in the batch. Hopefully the team intervened and has him working out this winter instead of installing windows. And hopefully they gave him the media guides to all N.L. teams so he can learn the names of the players he’s facing.
By Anders
November 26, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
ppaddy 123
NOT? That’s your parting shot at ridiculing me?
Go back and read Bravehearts* 9:08 response. That’s clever. Don’t fall into the pattern of name calling and screaming for me to go away that many on here have. It’s juvenile. I’d prefer a well thought out dig over a prepubescent rant about Mutt fans blah,blah, blah. Or you can ignore me as many on here have. By ignore, I mean they don’t respond - I’m pretty sure most still read my posts(Even DOB gives me the occasional smack when it’s a slam dunk in his favor) When isn’t it? There I saved you the time DOB.
By Efrim
November 26, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
Lew
You can’t just look at Win/Loss records and ERA. That doesn’t tell the whole story. Looking at the big picture makes more sense.
By Efrim
November 26, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Lew
I will say that it is unfair to judge Chuck on two years of pitching in the majors. Lets wait and see for his 2008 performance. But if the kid struggles…….
all bets are off.
By knowitall
November 26, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
If your going to have a playoff, I say keep the current ranking system. Currently the top 12 goes to a BCS bowl. Expand that to 16 and have a playoff. I guess you’d have to give the BCS conference champs automatic bids so that winning your conference would remain relevant. I don’t think there’s much arguement as to who the top 16 teams are but there’s plenty of doubt as to the order they are ranked.
I know it is extremely unlikely that Pitt will beat WV but if by some miracle they do and OU beats Mizzu, does UGA play for the national title? There just seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the fact that they still have a chance, however small, given that the highest they can finish in their own conference is 3rd.
By ncscoots
November 26, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Guys, it’s not that I’m down on Chuck, or want to see him traded, or anything of the sort. And I’d agree that he’s a known commodity. Barring some major and cataclysmic change in the man as a pitcher, he’s probably a good .500 pitcher at the back of the rotation. Expect that of him, and I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
Certainly, Reyes/Jurrjens/Bennett/whoever may not exceed that same performance. On the other hand, one of them might. Not sure you can say that about Chuck, and that’s kinda my point.
And while diminished expectations seem to be the norm (“he’s only the 5th starter”, “he’s only batting 8”, etc.), I prefer to hold out for more than mediocrity at ANY position. League-average is a fallback position to me, not Plan A.
Reyes vs. Chuck is all moot, anyway, if Hampton is healthy. A righty gets the 5th spot, IMO.
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
Scoots, I’m not following your reasoning, your logic that tells you Chuck should be a .500 pitcher. He’s 22-14 in his first two seasons as a starter, eight games over .500 in the seasons that starters generally struggle the most — their first seasons in the majors.
Probably be more logical to suggest he’s a good 11-7 pitcher at the back of the rotation, and even that’s assuming he doesn’t improve.
Do I ever think he’ll be an 18-20 game winner? Probably not. But I think he can be a consistent 15-game winner, become a good No. 4 or even a No. 3 for a good team, if he just picks up a few things, listens to guys like Glavine and Smoltz, and learns to make an adjustment or two.
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
Bruce, anything else on your honey-do list for me?
By Felix
November 26, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Just sign Lofton to be the veteran till the new baby braves are ready to man CF. Lofton’s a terrible clubhouse presence, but always clutch, and like a damned four-leaf clover for making the playoffs…
By GeorgetownKid
November 26, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
I agree with your assessment of Chuck James.
He is a good pitcher who will, over the course of his career, win more games than he loses. And if he is your #5 starter, you’re in very good shape. Heck, if he is your #4 starter, you’re probably still fine.
But, he will never be anything more than a back-end-of-the-rotation starter who relies on deception and being “sneaky quick.” This is why his opponents’ batting average increases exponentially as the game progresses.
I wouldn’t envision too many teams coveting James enough to part with significant talent in a trade for him, and so I don’t expect him to be traded. His style precludes him from being an effective reliever, and so I would place my money on him to win the last starting spot.
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
CharlieAlphaBrave, glad you liked that Isbell. It is a bit strange how it gets better the deeper you get into the CD, huh? Most bands tend to put what they believe to be the best song second, right? Anyway, it’s a great disc.
You want more Muscle Shoals Sound than Isbell, get the recent one Betty LaVette did with Patterson Hood producing (and playing, along with a bunch o old Muscle Shoals musicians including Hood’s dad) at Fame Studios in that city. Good stuff.
It’s called “Scene of the Crime” and you can hear a great cut from it (plays automatically when you go to the site) at BettyLavette.com
By Lew
November 26, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Efrim-Maybe it doesn’t tell the entire story-not really sure if anything can do that and, like I said, it’s too damned early in the day to get all stat geeky like Shaun.
You say Chuck is not a number three pitcher? Well, DUH!!!! You’re kidding, right (that was sarcastic)? He was forced into the 3 slot due to injuries to other pitchers last year. It was hardly an optimal situation. Had things been equal, he would have been a number five starter. For God’s sake y’all-the kid is what? 23 years old with 1 1/2 seasons of MLB to his name? He won 22 games while only losing 14 for a team that has BARELY been above .500 one year and below it the other. I just showed in definitive terms (the number of times teams win with their LHSP starting the games) that he compares quite favorably with most of the LHSP in the NL. He also compares quite favorably in ERA-there can be no disoputing this. As a matter of fact, only Jeff Francis and Cole Hamels, widely considered to be the cream of the LHSP crop in the NL, gave their teams a greater chance of winning when he started. WHAT THE HELL MORE DO YOU WANT from a very young, very inexperienced pitcher on a mediocre team?
He gives the Braves a chance to win more times than not when he starts. Isn’t that what we are looking for? I would also keep in mind that the Braves were shut out four times when Chuck pitched last year and only scored one run in several more. No matter how well you pitch, you won’t win if your team doesn’t score. The Braves’ record in games he pitched, could have quite easily been 21-8 or better, had they scored a few more runs in his starts.
NO one has anointed him the staff ace. No one has ever said he would amount to Sandy Koufax or Tom Glavine when his career is over. NO ONE. But to blindly think he is ready for the scrap heap, when almost every way you can look at the situation tells you differently is just plain dumb.
By nOLIE
November 26, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Reyes vs. Chuck is all moot, anyway, if Hampton is healthy. A righty gets the 5th spot, IMO.ncscoots
probably, but Bobby did use three lefties in the rotation a time or two. I can think of what? ‘92 or so…Glavine,Avery,Leibrant(sp).’94 & ‘95 Glavine,Avery,Mercker. might do it again if thats what looks best coming out of ST
By TNRON
November 26, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
Folks I dont want to trivialize the matter but number of homeruns allowed is a bit over-hyped.Bert Blyleven,a very good pitcher and hall of fame candidate,gave up a lot of homers,as did Don Sutton.The key is not to walk a lot of batters in front of the homers.Solo shots usually are not devastating for a starter.And I am in the minority in the belief that Chuck could become a “Mahay” type reliever down the road given the opportunity.Many of the HR’s were on the second or third time thru the order.
By Efrim
November 26, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
DOB
A consistent 15 game winner is more than just a #4 on an average team or a #3 starter on a good team. If you think Chuck can be a consistent 15 game winner, than he has more than just #3 starter potential. There aren’t many consistent 15 game winners in baseball.
I agree on what Scoots said, but I think we need to give James one more year. Though, if the trends continue and he delivers a year where he gives up 40 home runs in 190 innings, then I would like to think the Braves may go another way. You can’t have someone like that in your rotation.
By Honey Do List For O'Brien
November 26, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
Take out the trash
Rake the leaves
Defrost the freezer
Mow the lawn
Clean the gutters
Paint the house
Last, but most important, organize the thousands and thousands and thousands of CDs scattered throughout the house.
By Efrim
November 26, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Lew
Chuck turned 26 on November 9th. I agree with what you said, but like I have said, if he regresses even more in 2008, it is time to look for other options for our #5 starter spot.
By rvince
November 26, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
DOB, you said “if he just picks up a few things, listens to guys like Glavine and Smoltz,” This was in reference to Chuck James, but how could he learn from two very cerebral guys when it has been documented that he just “gets it and slings it”. I am not his biggest fan. Quite frankly his pitching annoys me. His controls is going to have to get alot better for him to win 15 games consistently, but maybe that is where Glavine and Smoltz would come in if he listens.
By rich brave
November 26, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
DOB:
There’s nothing wrong with Chuck James that Chuck James can’t fix. The question appears to be WILL HE?
By CMC
November 26, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
DOB,
My condolences to you on the Kansas game Sat. night. Looked pretty frigid in Arrowhead according to the TV cameras. Hope you had a flask of good quality bourbon with you.
I need your cigar expertise today. A buddy of mine is turning 40 later this week and I thought a box of qualify cigars would be appropriate. In your opinion, what is the best cigar for your money, i.e. not necessarily the most expensive but the best quality for your dollar?
Thanks for your help!!!!!
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
Efrim, they’re already looking at other options. By that I mean, Frank Wren has already said, if Hampton’s healthy, Chuck will be competing for the fifth spot with three others — Jo-Jo, Jair (sounds like a band, Jo-Jo and Jair — and Bennett.
I asked Frank directly, does this mean Chuck will have to win a spot in the rotation (after they signed Glavine), and he said yes, there would be competition for that last spot.
That’s the only reason I believe he could be traded during spring, if the other guys are healthy and pitching well and some team is desparate for a starter (like Braves were last spring). He’s a two-time 11-game winner, so there could be interest in him.
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
Honey, raking the leaves is the only thing I’ve got to do on that list. If you live in Atlanta, you know there hasn’t been any lawn mowing in a month or so. Grass stopped growing long ago with the drought. But those leaves … piled about an inch thick and covering my entire front yard.
Of course, I can’t do them today because I have about a 10-part blog assignment from Bruce that must be completed.
(The CDs are very organized, always. Alphabetical order, only way to go with mass quantities.)
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this
OK, then an occasional 15-game winner.
But again, I don’t see him becoming a top-of-the-rotation guy. And if he doesn’t develop a better pitch repertoire and learn to make adjustments, he’ll be destined to be a guy trying to win a spot at the back of rotations.
By Efrim
November 26, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
I agree
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
CMC, I’m smoking a tasty Macanudo as we speak, from a cigar club by buddy belongs to in Kansas City that has 2-for-1 deal on Friday afternoons. Great deal.
But for affordable price, I’d say the best buy for a $5 cigar, a very good $5 cigar, is the Padron 3000. Arturo Fuente also makes some good cigars around that price level.
By Lew
November 26, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
Left handed pitchers are a scarce commodity. Left handed pitchers who, at such a young age (and yes, 26 is still young) have won 22 games in their (not quite) first two years are an even scarcer commodity (especially with a .500 team). LHSP’s who have a career ERA of barely four for their career and a worst season ERA of league average are an even scarcer commodity. There were only two LHSP in all the NL last year whose teams won a larger percentage of his starts. These are all facts that cannot be disputed.
Chuck has two major flaws-stamina and need of a third effective pitch (both actually related). Theses are both also aspects which can be remedied. He worked on another pitch last year, but was not comfortable enough to use it in games (a perfectly normal occurrence). He can easily continue to develop this third pitch and may well be comfortable enough with it to use this year. This should A.Lead to smaller HR totals and B. Enable him to go longer in games. I sure as hell would not cont out a player who has made it to this point in the bigs. He faced higher odds just getting to this point and achieving wehat he has. Y’all are in way too much of a hurry. This is NOT fantasy baseball-players actually have a chance to develop before you drop them. It’s about time y’all started to realize that there are not many pitchers running around especially LHSP who are world beaters. Sometimes you have to give players a chance. They can’t all come to the bigs and be Doc Gooden. In fact, that rarely happens.
By ncscoots
November 26, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
DOB, re your 12:28, I guess I should have used “average” instead of “.500”, LOL. Those pesky stats will get you every time.
That whole thread started on James vs. Reyes and the relative merits of each. I certainly don’t think Chuck is just total garbage or anything, though I don’t see as much upside as others here. Nothing wrong with Chuck being Chuck, as long as that’s the expectation, and that’s what you need from his spot in the rotation. My original point was that there might be better alternatives, with potential for greater success AND greater failure: the former the reward, and the latter the risk, in reaching beyond “average”.
Hey, the guy could have the light go on, and be monster. Stranger things have happened…just not many, LOL.
In any event, Chuck’s performance doesn’t appear to be the difference-maker in the Braves’ 2008 season. Or, if it is, so much will have gone wrong that it probably wouldn’t matter, anyway.
By Lew
November 26, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
One more thing and then I’ll let it all drop-at least for today. Y’all are looking for a pitcher who has missed two and a half seasons, experienced two elbow surgeries and has pitched a total of ONE inning in almost a year (and that in an inferior league) to come in and win the number four slot in the rotation, leaving a pitcher with Chuck’s credentials in the dust.
Not only that, but if Hampton DOES come back (and I doubt he could fill the 4 slot all year with no stamina built up), what happens next year? Hampton’s contract will be expired and Chuck will just barely be arbitration eligible. What then? Penny wise and pound foolish certainly fits the bill in this case. Pig in a poke also comes to mind. Fill in your own cliches however you will. Getting rid of Chuck may be one of the dumbest, most short sighted moves that could be made-unless y’all think we could get an impact player in return for your “never to rise above the mediocre back end of the rotation” pitcher y’all revile so heartily.
By SKC
November 26, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
If I were Chuck James my offseason would be filled with getting another pitch under my belt. I would leave the siding jobs alone and perfect my game or he wont be on the braves team long. I think after the last two years their wont be any loyalty. They will want the best of the pack and Chucky better prepare. Its his spot to lose and I really think he will lose i.
By ppaddy123
November 26, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
Anders ….you did it man. Two consecutive posts without mentioning, “you know who”….there’s hope for you yet.
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
Hey, Lew, by the time Doc Gooden was 26, he was performing at the level of Chuck James.
When Doc was 24, he had an ERA+ of 113. When Chuck was 24, he had an ERA+ of 118.
When Doc was 25, he had an ERA+ of 98. When Chuck was 25, he had an ERA+ of 100.
When Doc was 26, he had an ERA+ of 101. Will Chuck continue to be better at a similar age than Doc?
By Steve McP
November 26, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know when Hampton is due to pitch next - any word on whether his leg injury will cause a delay?
By DonCoburleone
November 26, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
Good afternoon all! I haven’t posted in over a week (been busy with Thanksgiving and my bro’s wedding)… Anyway, here are a few thoughts after scrolling through some of the posts:
1)College football is officially a JOKE. Yeah yeah yeah, the players are playing for the “love of the game” and not a paycheck, but guess what? I DON’T CARE!!! You know what I care about? Crowning a REAL champion at the end of the year. Sure sure, once every 5 years or so we end up with a Texas/USC or Ohio State/Miami title game where it is clear that the two teams playing are head and shoulders above everybody else; but that is the exception, not the norm… This year it is especially awful. I mean, somebody is seriously going to sit here and argue that Missouri and West Virginia are clearly the two best teams in the country right now? It is an absolute joke to me that teams that stumble early on in the season and then get progressively better as the year goes on have absolutely ZERO chance of winning a national title… Does anyone (including DOB) seriously think that Missouri is better than Georgia or USC right now? Teams are rewarded for loading up their out-of-conference schedule with nothing but cupcakes just to make sure they don’t get that 2nd loss. Awful, just awful - the BcS has officially made me lose interest in college football. Wake me up when their is a playoff system…
By ppaddy123
November 26, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
Lew I agree….quality arms (starting & relief) will be the “it” item for teams shopping to improve. Very few organizations have a lot of pitching depth (it killed us last year) We need to hold onto every good, young arm we have.
By Efrim
November 26, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
People, please stop comparing Chuck James to Doc Gooden. Please. Lets be serious here. ERA or ERA+ is not the only factor in evaluating a pitchers worth to a team. It really isn’t. Neither is the Win/Loss column, which could easily change year in and year out. Look at Johan Santana’s year.
By DAP
November 26, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
i think chuck has about a 90% chance of being in the rotation at the start of 2008.
By DonCoburleone
November 26, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
More thoughts:
2)On Chuck James, I am in complete agreement with Lew on ol’ Chucky… What do you people want from this kid? Sure he rarely makes it out of the 6th inning, but when he does come out we are almost never out of the game. I mean, people are bashing him like he was freakin’ Mark Redman last season! And what’s with Wren saying he’ll be competing for the 5th spot in the rotation? If it’s true that our staff is good enough to possibly keep a 160+ inning, 4.24 ERA and 11 game winner off the staff, then we should WIN THE WORLD SERIES WITHOUT A PROBLEM IN 2008!!! Chuck James is an average #3 starter; a well above average #4, and without question the BEST #5 in all of baseball. Competing for a spot in the rotation? Did Frank Wren watch any of our games last year? Does he really think adding an 85mph fastball, 3-pitch 42 year-old and a 21 year old with 7 big-league starts under his belt makes Chucky expendable? Really?, no, REALLY????
By Anders
November 26, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
ppaddy 123 And you posted to me at 2:07 without using any derogatory language - so I’d like to think there’s hope for us all.
In a related story I’m not sure if you saw the disastrous game Eli Manning had yesterday for the Giants but after the game during the press conference he was very non plussed about how bad he played and hardly even seemed bothered which is his nature I’m told. Anyway, he went on to say he was “dissapointed”. Just like that he was declared in the NY media as vey “Glavine like”. Apparently TG did make a lasting impression here in NY. I’m truly not busting your chops about this I just found it ironic to hear it today.
By ncscoots
November 26, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this
Lew, I don’t think anybody has proposed trading Chuck, at least, not today, LOL. And I’d like to think we haven’t really “reviled” Chuck today…I mean, we haven’t exactly equated him with Mark Redman, have we? :-)
By rich brave
November 26, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
DOB’s post of 1:21 p.m.
My take from O’B - wan’s post is that Braves management’s patience regarding Chuck James is almost worn out. The guy pitches up in the zone too much, and he gets hammered when he does. Better control, and a new pitch should work in his favor. Studying hitters is a must. Without it he’s toast,and very soon will be Braves history. Just my opinion of course, since I don’t have FW’s ear and Brother Dave does. I’m hearin’ what you’re saying Dave - or would you like to contradict my take on your post????
By Thirsty Horse
November 26, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Some of you keep leading me to the water trough but I just can’t drink that Chuck James stuff even with all the Kool-Aid mix in there. He’s a two trick pony.
By TennesseePaul
November 26, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
WIN THE WORLD SERIES WITHOUT A PROBLEM IN 2008!!!
Not likely at all. This team is built to compete for a division title, not the world series.
By rich brave
November 26, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Say a prayer for the best Redskin player on t6he team. If the Redskins didn’t have bad luck, they’d have none at all. Sean Taylor in a life or death situation in a Miami hospital. RIGHT NOW I’m calling for a compensatory #5 pick for the Redskins in the ‘08 draft. No discussion, no nay-sayers. It’s only fair. Sorry Falcons fans been a Redskin and a Braves fan since 1952.
By Good News
November 26, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
From talkingchop.com
One young speedster who is doing well is Gregor Blanco. He’s in the midst of an eight game hitting streak and his current average stands at .315. What’s interesting is that he’s been hitting for a lot of power. The highest minor league slugging percentage he’s ever posted was .401 in 2004, but in the VWL he’s slugging .477 with four homeruns, two triples, and five doubles. Along with a .422 on-base percentage he’s putting up this winter, he could be adding even more value in his run at the starting center field job next spring.
By DonCoburleone
November 26, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
And finally:
3) DOB I know there are “moves still to be made” but they are very small ones. A backup SS is really all I see this team doing going forward. And even that can be filled internally (Lillibridge can afford to play a couple times a week; how much more “seasoning” does he really need in the minors?) I just am not buying into this notion that the Braves have “many millions more” to spend this offseason. Don’t know if anyone has kept up on their vocabulary since high school, but “many”, according to me, can be any number greater than 2. So in reality, “many millions” can really just mean a $3 million backup shortstop… I hope I’m wrong, but I would bet money on the Braves being all but done maneuvering this offseason. Anderson will be our opening day CF, Jones/Diaz platoon in LF, Thorman, Aybar, Sammons and random backup SS on the bench and a rotation of Smoltz/Hudson/Glavine/James/Jurrjens on the mound (I would find it to be a major miracle if Hampton was healthy on opening day)…
Mark it down, take a picture I don’t give a f&%#, but this is just what my gut’s telling me… And you know what? I’m not distraught over it either. This team is good enough to win the East without making another trade or signing of a free agent…
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 26, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
considering our rotation for 2008, we have the following guys:
rotation A: 1. Smoltz 2. Hudson 3. Glavine 4. Hampton 5. James/Jurrjens/Reyes/Bennett
rotation B (no Hampton): 1. Smoltz 2. Hudson 3. Glavine 4. James (i think?) 5. Jurrjens/Reyes/Bennett
after the 2008 season, we’ll have 2 experienced starters (Glavine and Hampton) who will be free agents and possibly no longer with the team. We’ll still have Hudson and, I assume, Smoltz. If we get rid of James this offseason, wouldn’t we have a similar rotation to what we had in 2007 — Smoltz and Hudson in the first two slots, followed by pitchers who are in their rookie or second years for the 3-4-5 spots? That is, of course, not taking into account any free agent signings or trades, nor potential injuries…
I’m just not sure that trading James is a great option for after 2008. One would think that he would benefit from having Glavine in the dugout and clubhouse as well as the motivation to compete for (and retain) a rotation spot, so he’s certainly got the potential to improve this year. With that in mind, I would think that the Braves would want him for 2009 and beyond. However, I also understand the team’s need to put together the best team to win this year, and if you can trade James for a piece (or pieces) that can help you win this year, you do it…but I just think it would thin out the rotation after 2008.
On another starting rotation note, we’ve heard Wren say a couple of times that there are 8 guys competing for 5 spots. This group of 8 doesn’t include Lance Cormier or Buddy Carlyle. They’re not free agents this offseason — are they primarily trading chips? Arbitration eligible?
By rich brave
November 26, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
MR. Good News:
Sounds like Blanco’s trade value is on the rise.
By ncscoots
November 26, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
For the Cubs: Ryan Dempster moves to the rotation; Kerry Wood moves to, perhaps, closer. Hoodathunkit? Cats and dogs living together surely is next.
By ncscoots
November 26, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
Not likely at all. This team is built to compete for a division title, not the world series.
Not yet, Grasshopper, not yet; this is true. But, remember, even the sun must rise before it may set, with many a sunbeam to sparkle before the light takes its rest in the evening.
(…with apologies to Shao-Lin monks everywhere, LOL)
By Vinny Vegas
November 26, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
Don’t bet on Chuck James doing anything for or remaining with the Braves for the complete upcoming season. If Hampton is healthy James is the odd man out. Thirsty Horse has the right idea here also. I am not drinking the cool aid ……………. Bud Light will give one better judgment. Bud light tells me James is simply not cut out for this Braves team. May I suggest some of you start drinking heavily.
By rich brave
November 26, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Mine of 2;52 p.m. SILENCE IS GOLDEN my brother.
By kdbanks
November 26, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What do you think of the candidates for the HOF this year? It doesn’t look like the new names on the list are very deserving, so maybe this is the year a guy like Jim Rice goes in.
In all HOF discussions, I always lean on the side of not letting people in. I think the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best, and sometimes people get in that I don’t think should.
Also, have you been in the BWAA long enough to vote yet?
KDB
By Greg in TN
November 26, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this
Afternoon friends and neighbors…
The HOF ballot is out on a soggy morning in the SE. David Justice ironically joins the player he replaced in right field for the Braves in 1990 in a bid to reach Cooperstown. Justice is among 11 first time hall hopefuls which includes Tim Raines, Brady Anderson, Chuck Knoblauch, Todd Stottlemyer, Jose Rijo, Rob Nenn, Rod Beck, Chuck Finley, Shawon Dunston and Travis Fryman.
The only gimme I see on this ballot this year is Goose Gossage, who came up 21 votes short last year and should gain entry once the results are announced on January 8th. I feel like McGwire will see more votes this year than the 128 he received last year, but I don’t believe he’ll get nearly enough to get in.
This year’s ballot, at 25 former players, is among the smallest ballots in history according to Jack O’Connell at MLB.com, so along with Gossage, it could be that several others that have been on the ballot for several years may have the best opportunity to gain more votes and it could help Jim Rice, Jack Morris and Andre Dawson. Here’s the link to MLB
Would love to see Dale Murphy get in, however I don’t see the BBWAA voting enough for Murph to get in which is a shame IMO, although I do understand the reasoning behind him not getting more consideration, and I know we’ve covered this before, so I’ll leave my strong feelings about that out of the discussion for now. I am hopeful that the Veteran’s Committee takes a closer look once he is eligible for Vet Committee consideration.
Speaking of the Veteran’s Committee, they also have a ballot to consider with quite a few deserving candidates. I believe umpire Doug Harvey, Ewing Kaufmann, Whitey Herzog, Billy Martin, Bowie Kuhn and Walter O’Malley are all deserving of enshrinement.
By ncgary
November 26, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
for a world series title in 08 peavey could be the key, san diego only has him guaranteed for next year, and he said atlanta was on short list of where he would like to pitch, if peavey could be had for james cormier and even yates id pull that trigger twice
By Greg in TN
November 26, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Congratulations to former Brave and Milwaukee Brewer manager Jerry Royster. According to the crawl on CNN, Jerry is the new manager of the Lotte Giants in Busan Korea.
By chris
November 26, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Jerry Royster. Wow. Now that’s a painful memory.
By RC
November 26, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Peavy CANNOT be had for James, Cormier, and Yates. For SD to even consider Peavy (which they won’t), I would bet the price would include at LEAST Schafer and Escobar or Johnson. Very unlikely Peavy ever lands in Atlanta.
By Dan
November 26, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
Hampton is healthy James is the odd man out.
No he is not. If the first four are Smoltz/Hudson/Glavine/Hampton, James would be a better pitcher than any of the others, be it Jurrjens, Reyes, Bennett or Cormier.
That said, the Braves would have three, somewhat similar left-handers in their rotation at the start of next season with Glavine, James and Hampton. Not a huge deal, but not something you want.
Here’s my idea: trade Chuck James and Brent Lillibridge to the Pirates for Ian Snell.
Think it’d work? I think it’s a big win for both sides.
By Greg in TN
November 26, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this
And Ken Oberkfell, Jim Presley, Bruce Sutter and Nick Esasky weren’t?
By David O'Brien
November 26, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this
Hey, you guys aren’t going to believe this. I know, I know, it’s hard to believe, but: Mike Hampton has a hamstring injury.
Wren didn’t know about it when I talked to him early Friday before my flight to Kansas City, but he found out later that day. He just told me.
Looks like very good chance Hampton won’t pitch again this winter. I’m gonna write something now for the paper and online. Be back shortly.
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
if peavey could be had for james cormier and even yates id pull that trigger twice
for whom would you be pulling the trigger? would you be pulling the trigger for the san diego GM who would like to blow his brains out if he made such a bad deal?
By Nick Esasky
November 26, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
10Greg, you are making my head spin with all those names.
By RC
November 26, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
Dan,
I wouldn’t say that Glavine, Hampton, and James are very similar at all. Hampton is a fastball-sinker pitcher, who (aside from the hand he throws with) is much more comparable to Hudson than Glavine. I do think that Glavine and James are similar in that they are relatively soft tossing control pitchers. The difference is that Glavine’s control is much, much better than what James has shown so far. But both of them give up many more fly balls than Hampton.
All that being said, I do think that a trade for Snell is something the Braves should look into, but I’m not sure if they’d be willing to give up Lillibridge to make it happen. I do not know offhand how many years from arbitration Snell is, but given the current makeup of the Braves rotation I think he would be viewed as a luxury. I find it much more likely that if James is traded it will be to continue stocking the farm system, possibly for a couple of arms that project as relief pitchers, but not starters.
By chris
November 26, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
Now you’re giving me a headache. I owe you the favor. How about Junior Moore, Larvell Blanks, and Darrel Cheney?
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
Looks like very good chance Hampton won’t pitch again this winter.
CUT HIM! CUT HIM! CUT HIM! Just kidding. I wanted to be the first goober who said it this time.
Congratulations Chuck James, you just earned a spot in the rotation.
By Federali
November 26, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
The Border Patrol has been alerted. There is a notorious hamstrung one armed bank robbing gringo bandit trying to get back into America. Known scars: All over his left arm. If he resists, throw a baseball at him. Something will surely break or snap.
By Greg in TN
November 26, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
Alas, it seems like the headache now seems to be Hampton. Frustrating for everyone, but I know it has to be doubly frustrating for Hampton.
Braveheart is correct, this would seem to cement Chuck James’ place in the rotation. To me, it was pretty vital to have Hampton pitch more than an inning of winter ball.
By Wayne in Utah
November 26, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
“What is that bloody, dead heap of flesh laying over there on the ground?”
“Why, it’s the Chuck James discussion! That horse has been beaten into the ground so much, it’s hard to tell exactly what it used to be.”
By Serge45
November 26, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
DOB, Any idea when the spring training schedule normally comes out? My father is turning 50 and I’d like to plan a long weekend where we could get down there to see some family and catch at least two games. Thanks.
By MikeS
November 26, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
Not sure if anyone has posted this already, but here is an interesting analysis of Glavine’s pitch selection and game plan on the mound:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/anatomy-of-a-player-tom-glavine
By Wayne in Utah
November 26, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
I think if we get ANYTHING from Hampton next year, the Braves should count it as a bonus. Too bad, really, as MH when healthy is one of the best competitors in the business.
Looks like the big 3, plus two from the James/Jurrjens/Reyes/Bennett camp. One would make a good long man, and I have little doubt we will probably not be trading any starters in the spring.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
November 26, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this
Well , with the news of Hampton’s injury , the Braves are in no mood to be trading any starting pitching until spring training.
Statement A: the Braves have millions to spend.
Statement B: 3.5 million per season is to much for Ron Mahay ? That figure is courtesy of Mark Bowman.
Um , somebody is either lying or I have to question the Braves commitment to building a quality bullpen.
Craig Wilson , Mark Redman and Chris Woodward were paid a combined 3.6 million last season. Those three were pulled off the scrap heap while Ron Mahay was part of a seven player trade.
So , what is value really worth to the Braves ?
It’s November 26th and we are getting nailed with the first blizzard of the winter !
By Braveheart
November 26, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this
“What is that bloody, dead heap of flesh laying over there on the ground?” “Why, it’s the Chuck James discussion! That horse has been beaten into the ground so much, it’s hard to tell exactly what it used to be.”
Wayne We would stop beating the dang thing if Carolina Lady would go and bury it in her backyard like she did that one time with another one of our dead horses.
By TennesseePaul
November 26, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this
Hampton. What else is new? This is why I think the Braves should have made a move for a Haren or Blaton or whomever. Something young, more reliable and with higher upside.
Instead, it’s looking more and more like Wren signed Glavine and thought he pulled off a coup.
If Hampton works (highly unlikely) the rotation is Hudson, Smolts, Glavine, James, Hampton (probably not in that order). It should be pretty obvious. Jurrjens has options. JoJo has options. Bennett will end up in long relief. Chuck has the most experience in the majors and so far is the best one out of those 4.
But, now that Hampton’s Hammy is holding him up, we could see Jurrjens in the rotation. JoJo needs much more time on the farm. Much, much more.
By TennesseePaul
November 26, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this
Coach: Watch out now. That type of talk is frowned upon.
By TJ
November 26, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this
YIKES!!!! WTF with Mike. Does this means that the Braves are going to look for another starting pitcher this winter DOB???
By Saltywoody
November 26, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this
Hamstring injury, huh?
What’d Hampton do, trip over a mound on his way to the trainer’s?
By Thirsty Horse
November 26, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this
Not yet, Grasshopper, not yet; this is true. But, remember, even the sun must rise before it may set, with many a sunbeam to sparkle before the light takes its rest in the evening.
Only true if you were born at night. If you arrive at noon it blows your whole theory.
“What is that bloody, dead heap of flesh laying over there on the ground?” “Why, it’s the Chuck James discussion! That horse has been beaten into the ground so much, it’s hard to tell exactly what it used to be.”
I’m not a “dead heap of flesh”, I’m a horse and proud of it buster. Ok, maybe James isn’t just a two trick pony. He can hang a damn good window. I’ll concede, that’s three tricks. Hampton out? Lead me to the next watering hole ‘cause it ain’t Chucky boy.
Jurrjens and Bennett are horses, James is a pony. A pony is just a pony but a horse is a horse of course of course.
By Wayne in Utah
November 26, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
TJ Don’t think you’ll be seeing any more “horses” added to the stable this winter.
Could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
By SilverShadow
November 30, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
I am thrilled beyond belief that Glavine is returning to his home in Atlanta. The prodical son will be returning since Glavine never really wanted to leave the Braves in the first place. Glavine departed to New York when John Shuerholtz played hardball in the salary negotiations with Glavine the last time and never returned the Glove’s phone calls. Glavine will go down in history as the second greatest lefthander behind the great Walter Johnson, which is not bad for a former college hockey star who almost never played major league baseball at hall. Truth be told, Glavine would have been a great hockey player if he had pursued that passion and probably would have broken all of Wayne Greskys scoring records had Glavine chose hockey over baseball.