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AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > November > 01 > Entry

Braves already heating up Hot Stove

By David O'Brien | Thursday, November 1, 2007, 03:03 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Help me, Merle, I’m breaking out in a Nashville rash….

Actually, it’ll be another month before we head to Music City for the Winter Meetings, but the Hot Stove talk has already been stoked and figures to intensify exponentially between now and the annual big meetings the first week of December.

Will the Braves have added at least one accomplished starting pitcher and replacement center fielder to their roster by then? I’d say probably on the pitcher, probably not on the center fielder.

So many teams and free agents wait to trade or sign during and especially right after the winter meetings, and I don’t know why this winter would be any different.

The question so many Braves fans have, will they sign Tom Glavine and when, is difficult to answer because both sides are playing it so close to the vest. Of the many things that Frank Wren learned as John Schuerholz’s assistant the past seven seasons, desire for secrecy is unfortunately one of them.

But if you’re asking me my gut feeling, I say the Braves will sign the 41-year-old lefty and that it will get done before the winter meetings, probably at a price closer to $10 million than so many fans will be comfortable with, but hey, the market is the market. He’ll take a discount to pitch for Atlanta, but if he can get $12 million from another team, it’s a bit much to ask him to take $7 mill to pitch for the Braves.

Then again, maybe the Nationals or Cardinals or some other team won’t make him an offer as high as I anticipate at least one will. If not, if those teams are convinced he’s pitching for the Braves (or Mets) and no one else, then maybe they don’t bother going through the motions. In that case, the Braves could benefit by getting him a bit cheaper than they might otherwise.

Still, I think it’ll probably take more than $8 million in a one year deal, perhaps with a mutual option and a small buyout.

But we’ll soon have a much better idea. The Braves and other teams can talk contract with Glavine until Nov. 13, after the 15-day exclusive negotiating window for teams to talk money with their own free agents. The Braves and other teams can talk to Glavine now, just aren’t supposed to talk financial terms until after the 10-day period, which began the day after the World Series.

We went into the offseason with me anticipating the Braves would sign Glavine and also make a move for at least one more younger, affordable pitcher. I was thinking someone along the likes of Blanton from Oakland, but can’t say now whether they’ll still try to make something like that happen.

I say this because the Renteria trade brought the young right-handed prospect from Detroit, Jair Jurrjens, who pitched well for the Tigers in a few of his seven starts late last season and looks ready to compete for a spot in the Braves’ rotation, which has a growing list of candidates for the back two spots should the Braves sign Glavine.

Think about it, they’d have Hudson and Smoltz, then Glavine if they sign him, then Hampton ($15 mill next season, so I’d suggest to you he’s gonna be in the rotation if he’s healthy), then Chuck James, Jo-Jo Reyes, Jurrjens and possibly another journeyman or prospect all competing for one spot (or two spots if Hampton’s not ready).

So while it wouldn’t surprise me if the Braves still look to acquire another proven starter, I’d also not be surprised if they don’t. Of course, if they don’t sign Glavine, then of course they’ll be going after another proven starter via trade or free agency.

For those wondering about Curt Schilling — look, it’s nice for the Braves that he put them on his list of 13 teams and all that, because it sends a signal to other pitchers and free agents, a reminder that the Braves are still a well-run, competitive organization.

But unless the asking price for Glavine simply goes higher than the Braves are willing to go, then there’s no reason they’d turn to Schilling. I just can’t imagine any team entering a season with three 40-something pitchers in the first four spots of your rotation (Smoltz, Glavine, Schilling). No way.

— Center field still vacant: I know, this just in…. But seriously, the center field situation is going to be interesting. Maybe it’ll get settled soon, but I haven’t heard anything yet to indicate the Braves are close to making a move for a proven CF.

Then again, no one here or in Detroit knew they were as close as they were to making the Renteria-for-two-prosects deal on Monday, either. But if you’ll recall, I did say several times in recent weeks that the Renteria-Detroit thing was one to keep an eye on, because of the Leyland-Renteria connection.

Anyway, center field. I know the Braves have sent signals out indicating they wouldn’t be averse to plugging in the kid Jordan Schafer out there, pointing out that Rafael Furcal made the jump directly from A-ball to the majors.

But I’m not buying that. Furcal was a notable exception, blessed with blazing speed (nearly 100 steals in his final minor league season) and a cannon arm. The Braves knew that, at worst, he’d be able to slap balls on the ground and beat out plenty of hits, and that his speed at the top of their order would be a huge asset as a rookie. Turns out he surpassed all expectations as a rookie.

But can’t see them throwing a kid (Schafer) into the CF job after one impressive season in A-ball (his first two years in minors weren’t much). I do believe Schafer will be ready in a year or two, but not now.

Brent Lillibridge, on the other hand, could be a legitimate option if the Braves don’t like the free-agent price tags for CFs or aren’t willing to purge more prospects in a trade for a CF when they’ve now got two elite CF prospects in the wings (Schafer and the blazing speedster Gorkys Hernandez, 20, who came with Jurrjens from Detroit in exchange for Renteria).

(While we’re at it, how ‘bout that Renteria-for-Andy Marte trade from two years ago? Talk about the trade that could keep giving … the Braves got two outstanding seasons out of Renteria, now might also have a long-term starting pitcher and center fielder out of it. What’s Marte done in the interim? If we’re gonna bust on the Braves for some trades that didn’t work out as they hoped, also need to acknowledge the ones that worked out even better than planned.)

Anyway, Lillibridge has excelled in the high minors, he’s a few years older than Schafer, and he played center field at the Univ. of Washington four years ago as a freshman, when he had his best college season.

If the Braves play him in center field in the second half of the winter-ball season, or even if they only play him there in spring training, it’d be enough time for him to brush up on his outfield play. It’s not like Kelly Johnson, who moved to second base after one winter of workouts at Turner Field and spring training, after never playing the right side of the infield and after missing the entire 2006 season.

The drawback, if there is one, is that Lillibridge is an outstanding shortstop, and do you want to move him from his natural position to center field? Would it hurt his potential trade value? The other side of that, however, is that if the Braves like him as much as I’m told they do, then they don’t want to trade him and want to have his offense in their lineup, and of course they have a shortstop (Yunel Escobar) who should be a fixture for years to come.

If he’s more valuable to the team as a center fielder this season than he is as trade bait, then by all means, the Braves should put Lillibridge out there and spend the money on pitching - both starting and relief — and on the raises that several current Braves are going to get anyway.

Mike Cameron’s 25-game suspension for a second positive test for banned stimulants will make the soon-to-be 35-year-old CF a little cheaper on the free-agent market, but probably still not as cheap as the Braves might find suitable.

All you need to know is that Cameron wasn’t much interested in a two-year, $20 mill offer the Padres were prepared to make in April, according to my buddy Tom Krasovic, who covers the Padres for the S.D. paper. He reportedly wanted three years and $36 mill.

I liked the idea of Cameron as a stopgap measure for a year or two until Schafer’s ready (or until Hernandez is ready, whoever’s ready first). But not at $10 mill a year, much less $12 mill a year, and certainly not for three years.

And if they signed him now, they’d have to have someone else play CF for April, which would be fine if they had a strong CF backup returning from last year. But Willie Harris ain’t the answer, folks. And he’s eligible for arbitration, so I don’t even think he’ll be back after his late-season slump.

And moving Jeff Francoeur? The Braves have no intentions of doing it, and no amount of fan (or columnist) discussion or suggestions is going to change their minds. Personally, I don’t think Frenchy has the range or the natural jumps on fly balls to play center at a high level. And besides, I like his arm in right field.

Ken Griffey Jr? In a word, no. Braves need someone they can count on for more than 80 games. Besides, if the Reds saw fit to move him from CF, what makes anyone believe the Braves would see fit to move him back there at his age?

As for Torii Hunter, folks probably need to realize that Hunter is probably going to get offers of at least five years, $75 mill, perhaps from the Yankees and very likely from the White Sox. The Braves aren’t interested in a long-term commitment to a high-priced CF, not when they’ve got pitching needs and certainly not when they’ve got two elite CF prospects in the pipeline.

Aaron Rowand? Same story, basically. He’ll command a long-term deal, at least three or four years at around $10 mill or more per year, maybe $12 mill per.

— Instant replay: Buster Olney was told that some GMs are planning to recommend limited use of instant replay during the General Managers meetings next week in Orlando. Good. I’m for it, but only on a very limited basis - specifically, a quick look at a TV monitor mounted nearby to determine whether balls are fair or foul, or whether homers hit this yellow line or that foul screen or whatever.

For close plays at the plate, I don’t know. I’d hate to slow the glacial pace of some games even more. For balls and strikes and other calls, absolutely not. No, no, no.

— Edgar will be missed, no doubt: In the clubhouse, the classy veteran was a true leader by example, taking Escobar under his wing and helping to transform him from a youngster who had some attitude problems in the minors, to a hard-working professional who handled himself well in his first season in the majors.

And at the plate, Renteria’s contributions in the No. 2 hole will be missed. You better believe that. There are very few who do the things he does in that role. Also, as ESPN research guru Mark Simon pointed out, here were Edgar’s averages with runners in scoring position the past six seasons — 2002: .372; 2003: .317; 2004: .286; 2005: .298; 2006: .293; 2007: .331.

— Great flicks, records: Saw two fine movies this week, one on the plane back from Denver (Talk To Me starring Don Cheadle, with an absolutely incredible R&B/soul soundtrack), and one at the theatre (Lars and the Real Girl starring arguably the finest young actor in a decade, Ryan Gosling, an entirely original flick that’s not for everyone, but will be a top-five movie this year for those who dig such unconventional, out-of-the-mainstream, brilliantly written and acted films. OK, was that review pretentious enough? But really, it’s great. But there are no shootings or sex scenes, so don’t say you weren’t warned).

Gonna go see Gone Baby Gone tonight. Heard nothing but good things about it.

OK, and who was it here who said Neil Young’s new album, Chrome Dreams II, was disappointing or that I wouldn’t like it. Man, I’ve gotta disagree strongly. I love it, especially the 18-minute “Ordinary People.” That stands with much of his best work. Terrific song, worth the price of admission alone, though there are several other great tunes on this record, too.

I’ll again offer my highest recommendation for the Shout Out Louds’ CD Our Ill Wills; which sounds a lot like The Cure when The Cure was still really, really good, which was quite a long time ago.

OK, and I probably shouldn’t admit this, but I actually really like one album by one of the new breed of country artists: Joe Nichols’ Real Things. I know, I know, I’ve said no under-30 country artists, at least not dude singers, are worth a damn. But this guy’s got the great old-school voice and the tunes aren’t like most of the overproduced garbage coming out of Nashville. I mean, just play the first two songs on this record, “Real Things” and especially “Another Side of You,” and his cover of Blaze Foley’s “If I Could Only Fly,” and tell me this cat doesn’t have a great sound.

Alright, I feel like I need to go put on some Merle Haggard now, after recommending such a relatively popular current country artist. Or some Neil. Yeah, that’s it.

WARNING: Extremely long song lyrics below. If you don’t like Neil Young, then skip to the comments and post away.

”ORDINARY PEOPLE” by Neil Young

In a dusty town

a clock struck high noon,

Two men stood face to face.

One wore black and one wore white,

But of fear there wasn’t a trace.

Two hundred years later

two hot rods drag race

through the very same place,

And a half a million people,

moved in to pick up the pace.

A factory full of people,

Makin’ parts to go to outer space.

A train load of people,

They were aimin’ for another place.

Out of town people.

There’s a man in the window

with a big cigar,

Says everything’s for sale.

The house and the boat

and the railroad car.

The owner’s gotta go to jail.

He acquired these things

from a life of crime,

Now he’s selling them

to raise his bail.

He was rippin’ off the people.

Sellin’ guns to the underground.

Tryin’ to help the people,

Lose their a@#

for a piece of ground.

Rippin’ off the people.

Skimmin’ the top when

there was no one around.

Tryin’ to help the people.

He was dealing antiques

in a hardware store,

But he sure had a lot to hide.

He had a backroom full

of the guns of war,

And a ton of ammunition besides.

Well, he walked with a cane,

Kept a bolt on the door

with five pit bulls inside.

Just a warning to the people,

Who might try to break in at night.

Protection from the people,

Selling safety

in the darkest night.

Tryin’ to help the people.

Get the drugs

to the street all right.

Ordinary people.

Well, it’s hard to say

where a man goes wrong,

Might be here

and it might be there.

What starts out weak

might get too strong,

If you can’t tell foul from fair.

But it’s hard to judge

from an angry throng,

Of hands stretched into the air.

The vigilante people.

Takin’ law into their own hands.

Conscientious people.

Crackin’ down on

the druglord’s land.

Government people.

Confiscatin’ all

the dealer’s land.

Patch-of-ground people.

Down at the factory,

they’re puttin’ new windows in.

The vandals made a mess of things,

And the homeless

just walked right in.

Well, they worked here once,

and they live here now,

But they might work here again,

They’re ordinary people.

And they’re livin’ in a nightmare.

Hard workin’ people.

And they don’t know

how they got there.

Ordinary people.

And they think that you don’t care.

Hard workin’ people.

Down on the assembly line,

they keep puttin’

the same thing out.

But the people today,

they just ain’t buyin’.

Nobody can figure it out.

Well, they try like hell

to build a quality end,

They’re workin’ hard

without a doubt,

They’re ordinary people.

And the dollar’s

what it’s all about.

Hard workin’ people.

But the customers are walkin’ out.

Lee Iacocca people.

Yeah, they look

but they just don’t buy.

Hard workin’ people.

Two out of work models

and a fashion slave,

Try to dance away

the Michelob night.

The bartender poured

himself another drink,

While two drunks sat

watchin’ the fight.

The champ went down,

then he got up again,

And then he went out like a light.

He was fightin’ for the people,

But his timing wasn’t right.

For Las Vegas people,

Who came to see a Las Vegas fight.

High rollin’ people,

Takin’ limos

though the neon night.

Fightin’ for the people.

And then a new Rolls Royce

and a company car,

They went flyin’ down the street.

Each one tryin’

to make it to the gate,

Before employees manned the fleet.

The trucks full of products

for the modern home,

Set to roll out into the street,

Of downtown people,

Tryin’ to make their way to work.

Nose-to-the-stone people,

Some are saints, and some are jerks.

Hard workin’ people,

Stoppin’ for a drink

on the way to work.

Alcoholic people,

Yeah, they’re takin’ it

one day, one day at a time.

Out on the railroad track,

they’re cleanin’ up number 9.

They’re scrubbin’ the boiler down,

well, she really is lookin’ fine.

Ah, she’s lookin’ so good,

they’re gonna

bring her back on line.

Ordinary people.

They’re gonna bring

the good things back.

Nose-to-the stone people.

Put the business back on track.

Ordinary people,

I got faith in the regular kind.

Hard workin’ people.

Patch-of-ground people.

Permalink | Comments (829) | Post your comment |

Comments

By sri

November 1, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

No mention of Rowand???

By PopeVanIII

November 1, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

DOB (from previous thread),

You said:

What type of salary do you think the �top left-handed specialsts� make? Check it out. It ain�t a whole lot.

Closers make a lot. Premier setup guys make quite a bit. Lefties who don�t get a saves or a tone of holds don�t make anywhere near that level.

He won�t make much more than he made this year, and almost certainly less than $2 mill.

None of the following guys are closers or premier setup guys. And they all make more than the Braves have shown a willingness to spend on non-closers (or non-heir-apparents, in the case of Mike Gonzalez) over the past several years:

Scott Eyre (3 years/$11 million) Scott Shoeneweis (3 yrs/$10.8 mil) Jamie Walker (3 yrs/$12 mil) Damaso Marte (2 yrs/$4.7 mil) Mike Stanton (2 yrs/$5.5 mil)

The cheap ones are the ones who haven�t hit free agency yet. Mahay is comparable to the guys on that list. I feel confident that his arbitration salary would be north of $2 million.

If the Braves are willing to spend that on a lefty specialist�and you would know far better than I�that�s great, and that�s why I posed the question to you.

But I don�t think it�s realistic to assume they�ll be able to do so for the price you�re suggesting.

By bravesfan

November 1, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, DOB.

By Just Wondering...

November 1, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I was just wondering about the Elias Rankings�why does it say 2006-2007? And how come there are players that were injured all year on there that are higher than some others? I�m a little bit confused about how they do the rankings because some of them just don�t make sense�

By shawn

November 1, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

o.k. you explained what the aren’t going to do. But my question is who will they try to aquire. If Glavine is the only person aquired I would be surprised. Kids in CF, maybe but with the LF situation it doesn’t make for a very strong OF. Do you think maybe they aren’t going the Glavine route and maybe will go for some younger pitching instead even at a higher price tag? They have prospects that the Twins might want for Santana …

By ssiscribe

November 1, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

New blog at 3:30 in the afternoon, partly cloudy skies, nice breeze, 70-something degrees …

Damn, is it spring training yet?

Off to the gym.

The Scribe abides

—30—

By Braves4Ever

November 1, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Great Blog as usual DOB. Thanks for keeping it alive for us.

By bwash21

November 1, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Rowand? See Torii Hunter above. I don’t know what this fascination is with Rowand. He’s had one good year in his career in a bandbox of a ballpark that plays as small as any stadium in the majors. Besides, the Braves need a guy they can get for 1 or 2 years in CF until the others are ready. All these FA’s are going to get 4-5 contracts more than likely. However, I do like the idea of getting Co Co Crisp. He has some speed, a decent average, and a little bit of pop and plays a very good CF. He’d fit in very nicely here.

By Jon

November 1, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

I totally agree with you on Griffey. The Braves should not be spending any money on Griffey, Cameron, or any other veteran, especially when they have several talented prospects in the farm system.

All available funds should be spent on starting pitching and resigning Tex. As long as we have Tex, the lineup will be just fine without A. Jones.

By BraveNess

November 1, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

is the Ness for our beloved Mike Ness of SD fame?

Thanks, good band but no, ‘fraid not. Not Mike, not Loch. More like Eliot, but not. Although my guitar playing does cause distortion on faces in some social circles. Just Ness. Even in Braves off-season, better ness than less I guess.

By Thrillhouse44

November 1, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Is Lillibridge a better fielding shortstop than Escobar? Seems like our infield is flooded - which is not a bad thing. But if you consider all of the young talent: Escobar, KJ, Lillibridge, etc. It seems that one of the young guys could become trade bait sooner or later.

By Gator

November 1, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, What do you think about trading for Ryan Freel or maybe Chone Figgins? Both could be valuable after Schafer arrives in other positions.

By Jared

November 1, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Giving Tom Glavine anything more than 7-8 million would be insane. The difference between Glavine and Schilling: Glavine’s arm was dead at the end of the year and Schilling won a World Series.

By Gator

November 1, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

We have a better chance of trading for Kobe Bryant than for Johan Santana.

By MGL

November 1, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Re Lillibridge and Escobar, I have wondered if the long term plan is to put Escobar at 3rd after Chip moves on and Lillibridge at short.

By Don!

November 1, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Since we’re losing Andruw’s salary and part of Renteria’s … does it make sense to try and lock up a couple of our other players to long(er)-term deals this off season?

I know Frenchy turned one down last season, and as long as he has Darth Boras as his agent, he’ll never take a hometown discount … and I won’t even approach Tex — but what about players like Kelly Johnson and Soriano?

Is there any possibility of getting them to extend their current deals so we’ll have some payroll certainty for ‘09 and beyond?

I don’t see us going after another free agent outfielder, and it looks like the kids from Richmond will be up here in due time. The infield’s set for ‘08 at least, so doesn’t it make a bit of sense to solidify some of the other spots (2B, bullpen) to know how much we’ll have to spend to address pitching and the corner infield spots in the next couple of seasons after this one?

Later,

Don!

By Shaun

November 1, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

sri, I think Rowand is going to command too much money and too many years for the Braves’ liking. I’ll say 4-5 years at $10-12 million per year is what he’ll get. That’s not a horrible deal for a player like Rowand, but it’s not what a team like the Braves should pay.

I think at this point they’ll go with Lillebridge or trade for someone like Coco Crisp—they’ve always put a premium on defense and Coco can go get it. Plus, you never know. Cox and company seem to find a way to get the best out of usually weak-hitting outfielders: Charles Thomas, Eli Marrero, Dewayne Wise, Willie Harris.

By flange1

November 1, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

BravesNess, GOOD ANSWER!!!

By keylargo25

November 1, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

DOB

I read in Furman Bisher’s column that Hampton would NOT be pitching in a winter league this year. Is that correct? I had read earlier he would pitch in the AFL if he was ready and in the Mexican League if not the AFL. What’s up?

By Epinephrine

November 1, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

DOB, how much would an increased budget from Liberty change your predictions? That is to say, are you basing the Braves reluctance to spend money on the current budget?

By Scott

November 1, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Pick up Bobby Pinson’s “Man Like Me.” It’s been out a few years. Well-produced, brilliant lyrics. You can thank me later.

By Saltywoody

November 1, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

I’m still wondering what everyone thinks about someone like Cliff Lee.

I know Blanton or Haren or someone along their lines would look better, at a younger age, and with more potential.

But, if you’re shelling out 8 million + for Glavine and you’ve already traded your best chip (Renteria), then how are you going to pry a guy like Blanton away from Oakland? With who?

And I’m still really sad to see Renteria go, despite what we got in trade for him. Andruw’s decline in production and refusal to make any adjustments makes him easy to say goodbye to, even if we don’t have a replacement.

But, even for as good as Escobar was/is/will be, it’s tough having such a young kid at such a critical position.

I just really hope he can step up the way he did in the latter half of last season.

DOB-any chance Escobar’s temper/attitude from the minors that you referenced comes back again if he struggles? Is there any indication that the attitude is lying dormant, or was it just the result, maybe, of feeling like he was too good to be wasting away in the minors? VERY curious about that- since Andruw’s attitude (a veteran who should know better) was not all it should have been last year.

By woogidy

November 1, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Nice work DOB. Where is the A-Rod topic here? What kind of offer do you think the Braves are going to give him? Seriosly though, What about a guy like Corey Patterson? He is from Atlanta, and went to Kennesaw State. Maybe like 2 yrs 10.5 mil?

By richbrave

November 1, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

MR. O’B-wan, Light-saber Plleeeze!!! (1)STARTING PITCHING. (2)CENTER FIELD. (3)LEAD OFF. (4)TWO HOLE. (5)THREE HOLE when CHIP’S on DL. (6)REPLACEMENT for TEXEIRA after ‘08. The obvious answer to all these problems is $$$$. Solve problem (1) with Johan Santana: mortgage the farm AND raise the budget by $$$$$ millions. Can’t do it?? Backfill and pray my friend, backfill and pray.

By Braveheart

November 1, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

MAGIC NUMBER IS 163!

By Shawn B

November 1, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of sticking Lillibridge in center next year, if he shows in winter ball and the spring that he can handle it at least. He can be moved back into the infield in a couple of years when Shafer or Hernandez are ready. Chipper’s not going to be around forever, as much as I wish he will be,or Kelly Johnson could be moved eventually to open a spot in the infield if Lillibridge proves to be better than Kelly. Of course, there is no guarentee that Shafer or Hernandez will be better than Lillibridge, in that case they could be used as trade pieces. I guess the short version is the Braves have a bright future with their position players and could have some tough choices for years to come on who plays where. Nice problem to have I’d say. On the other hand, the future of the pitching staff makes me nervous. I like the pickup of Jurrjens, and I like the talent and makeup of Reyes. Chuck James is a wildcard who I just can’t seem to get a good read on. He flashes effectiveness, and then goes into the tank for weeks. So I think the money they don’t spend on getting a centerfielder from outside the organization should be sunk into pitching, a couple of starters obviously and even some more bullpen help since you can never really have enough arms out there. Signing Mahay would be a priority on the bullpen front, I would think, since he showed the last couple of months last season that he is an effective lefty. I would love to see Glavine back, though I have to admit I’m extremely biased on that since he and David Justice were my two favorite players as a child and teen (I was ten when Glavine came into the league in ‘88 and twelve, obviously, when Justice came in ‘90). Ironic with Justice I guess since as a small child Dale Murphy was my favorite and Justice made Murphy expendable. But Glavine is still a major league caliber pitcher so I think that would be a good move for the rotation in the short term. The rest of any available money has to be spent on a younger, established pitcher. Dan Haren is on top of that wish list (other than Santana of course but I think you’d have to pay WAY to much to aquire him and then that bright future of position players would be ruined, not to mention those few bright young arms the Braves have). Haren is probably just a dream as well since there is no guarentee that Oakland is going to be willing to part with him just yet. Joe Blanton would probably be next on the list. I think Calos Silva wouldn’t be a bad idea, and you wouldn’t have to give up any prospects for him. But whoever it is, the Braves have to put whatever money they have available to spend into the pitching staff to sure it up for at least the next few years. And then of course, it’s time to pay Tex whatever it takes to keep him around, cause that guy is a STUD offensively and defensively. GOT to keep that guy in a Braves uniform.

By BravesinTN

November 1, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, with the winter meeting being in my backyard, Nashville, this year…is this worth going to as a fan? Is it a fan friendly event worth going to? THANKS!

By KC

November 1, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Instant Replay is the Right Move!:

It’s about time!!! The objections to this I’ve heard over the years is that it would slow the game down. But if it cuts down on the amount of time managers spend arguing calls… the way I see it, it would actually speed things up a bit. Not to mention the fact that it would improve accuracy of calls.

Absolutely no reason not to use replay for: fair/foul calls, homerun calls, plays at the plate, or any game-ending play. Beyond that, I agree that we can’t get carried away a video-review everything.

It’s also time to automate the strike zone!

If we can come close to achieving absolute fairness and accuracy on ball/strike calls… why not do it?!

It’s simple… pitches are measured using something similar to the Questech setup. On every pitch, a signal is sent to some kind of electrical device held by the umpire, and he then announces the call.

Oh… and we should use instant replay for balk calls. But only when Tim Hudson’s on the mound. lol

By Random

November 1, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun (Oct 31, 1:49 PM): DAP, how often does the pitcher drive in a run? It�s much more exciting to see a lineup full of major league hitters rather than eight major league hitters and an A-ball hitter.

Shaun, how often does a batter hit for the cycle? How often does a fielder make an unassisted triple play? Does the rarity of these events diminish or enhance their excitement?

Extending the line of your reasoning just a little further, I would have to conclude that you would prefer to watch the Home Run Derby over a nine-inning ball game.

As far as strategy, again, I�m not so sure. Seems there is plenty of strategy in trying to determine when to bunt instead of having the strategy laid out or when to remove pitchers instead of basing it on when their spot is due up.

I think not. As already evidenced by the examples from yesterday, the bunt decision (or the decision to replace one pitcher with another pitcher) has no impact at all on late game line-ups and player availability, and is therefore a much simpler (and simple-minded) decision to make. Contrast that type of decision with TampaBrave�s 2:24 PM post from yesterday.

In my opinion, the symmetry argument is the best one for the non-DH crowd. To me, it makes more sense to say all fielders should hit and all hitters should field than most other arguments I�ve heard.

I know of no �non-DH crowd� member for whom this is a significant argument.

By Kieran from Long Island

November 1, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Take this for what it’s worth, but I wouldn’t make any bold statements about the shilling situation just yet. My one of my best friend works with Mark Texiera’s brother in law and he has talk to Mark often and Texiera specifically by name stated that the Braves are interested and are going to make a run at Curt Schilling. This is From Mark Teixiera’s mouth. Now a few things you can bring up here, one being what does Mark Teixiera know about what the Braves front office’s intentions are, also there’s a line of communication here so maybe the facts have been distorted a bit (They HAVE NOT on my end of things.) Also, keep in mind this talk occured BEFORE the post season and BEFORE Frank WRen was named GM. So tehre is some distance there. My only point is, to say that there is no relevance to teh Schilling discussion is not entirly true, because this is a very specific and notable source… he’s their clean up hitter.

Before you scoff at my source he told me TWO WEEKS before the Teixera trade that it was a done deal and that i could write down that Mark Teixiera would be in a Braves uniform, they were just working out the details; TWO WEEKS. He was dead on, and this was back when Yankee fans still had hope of getting a peice of him. Once again, I’m not saying schilling will be a Brave, I’m just throwing this out there

Two other things notable that Mark Teixiera said off the record are:

1:He honastly loves being an Atlanta Brave, wants to stay there.(We’ll see what Boras has to say about that)

2.The Braves Front office has made it clear to the players, specifically the veterans, that they are going to try to get a World series Ring in 2008. They do not want Chipper and Smoltz retiring without a second ring.

Take all this for what it is, but I’m letting you know that this is a very real source, it’s not me just trying to be heard.

By Big Easy

November 1, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Umm, unless I missed something somewhere, Don!, Francoeur is not represented by Boras.

~E~

By Dennis

November 1, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Someone yesterday brought up the name Cliff Lee from the Indians. After thinking about it, he would be a nice arm for the Braves starting rotation. Indians are loaded with young arms and Lee might be had for a good outfielder. Any thoughts?

By 22oz

November 1, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

No to Cameron, no to Griffey. Unless a good trade falls in our lap, i would like to see the Braves have tryouts in Spring Training between Schafer, Lillibridge, and Blanco. Schafer is hitting .390 in the AFL, and Blanco is hitting .357 in the Venezuala winter league. Spring Training would be alot more exciting in my opinion. There’s nothing wrong with giving kids a shot, and the Braves seem to be better than most at doing so. Even if Schafer needs more seasoning, send him to AA, he may be ready before the year ends.

FYI: for entertainment, go to Milb.com, do player search by last name, and type “Hernandez.”

Sign Glavine. Trade Thorman for a low level prospect. Aybar, B.Pena, Clint Sammons, and one other would make a decent bench.

whew, i’m done. don’t need no winter meetings!

By KC

November 1, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

I say, find an experienced CF defensive specialist you can acquire at a very reasonable cost, and use him as a safety net behind Lillibridge in center.

As for another starter (after Glavine)… try to get another top-of-rotation starter. If there isn’t a frontline starter available, then don’t bother.

Between Hampton, James, Reyes, Jurrjens, and Bennett… I’ll bet we can find 2 starters who can perform at least as well as any mediocre starter we might acquire.

By Random

November 1, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

joebrave (Oct 28, 10:11 PM)

The Braves had another Devine a long time ago,I believe his name was Adrian Devine,not that good either!!

Gotta disagree here. Adrian Devine might have been funny looking (if I recall, he was tall & gawky with kinky brown hair and wire-rimmed glasses), but he was having a pretty good spring training, especially offensively, when he tragically caught a spike in the chain-link outfield fence going up to rob someone of a home run and shattered his Achilles tendon. As far as I know, he never came back from that injury.

By chris

November 1, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

With the way Glavine pitched down the stretch no way I’d give him more than around $7 million. If he won’t take that kind of money then we don’t want him. Greedy b*******.

By Rev. Zoldars

November 1, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about Corey Patterson. When he was playing ball at Harrison, he was a monster. Hit for power too.

But, he sucks, frankly. And spending 11 mil on him is ridiculous. I’d say go with our farm system. I don’t think they would produce less.

On the other hand, seeing how he’s from K town, and coming home is usually easier, he could be a diamond in the rough, as they say.

To be honest though, I saw him driving around town one day, and he just seems tiny. I dunno, I say go with the prospects. Develop pitching, starter and relief. Then, if you got money left over, Look at signing a CF

By David O'Brien

November 1, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

SaltyWoody, I saw no sign of Escobar’s previous problems this season, and Eddie Perez personally told me he was very impressed and surprised by Escobar’s improved attitude and maturity.

Eddie had some sparring matches with him in minors in 2006, and he was concerned in spring training, but said Escobar really made a lot of progress and was good teammate this season….

Adirondack, I only saw one early episode of Mad Men on my program guide tonight on AMC. I can’t believe I missed it when it started, what a great show. But I’ve been able to watch most of them on HD at my leisure, on OnCommand thing on Comcast. Got a couple episodes left in season, need to watch them by Nov. 8 (that’s when they’re available until).

By TennesseePaul

November 1, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB!

New blog. It’s like a crushing weight has been lifted off my chest. I can breath! I’m alive. And look, the page loads much faster.
Sweet move putting the lyrics to a 20 minute song in the topic. Should negate the fresh blog much faster. =)

And for more talk…

Atlanta Braves
2007 Record: 84-78, third place
2007 Attendance: 2.7 million, 10th in the NL
2007 Payroll: $87 million, 15th in MLB
Key Free Agents (2007)
CF-R Andruw Jones
PH-R Julio Franco
RHP Octavio Dotel (player option)
Key Free Agents (2008)
1B-S Mark Teixeira
RHP John Smoltz (club option)
RHP Rafael Soriano
RHP Oscar Villarreal
LHP Mike Hampton (club option)
3B-S Chipper Jones (vesting option)
Key Long-Term Commitments
RHP Tim Hudson, $13M/year through 2009, plus 2010 mutual option
C-L Brian McCann, $5.0M/year through 2012, plus 2013 club option
Key Ready-Now Youngsters
LHP Jo-Jo Reyes
MI-R Yunel Escobar
SS-R Brent Lillibridge
OF-L Brandon Jones
Needs: 1. CF; 2. one or two good SPs; 3. Relief depth

What They Should Do: Strong Buy. The Braves have already traded shortstop Edgar Renteria (to the Tigers for pitcher Jair Jurrjens and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez). With Escobar ready to be at least a league-average regular, and Brent Lillibridge not far behind him, there was simply no reason not to do that; as the market for shortstops this winter is nearly as weak as that for starting pitchers. The next question is in center field, where the Braves could go for the Banana Republic option with Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand, fill the Gap with Corey Patterson or Mike Cameron (who’ll miss the first 25 games of next season after testing positive a second time for a banned stimulant), or take the cheap-o Old Navy route by entrusting Willie Harris with the position. My target would be Rowand, who should be cheaper than Hunter and is probably the better defensive player at this stage of his career. Cameron would be more appropriate for a team looking for a quick fix, but with Jordan Schafer still several years away, this is a position that the Braves need to address for the longer term than a year or two. As for Harris, the best-case scenario is that he can duplicate Juan Pierre’s performance, and the worst case is that he matches his .247/.318/.321 career norms — that’s not how you want to head into Opening Day.
The Braves still then have a little work to do, since the back end of the rotation was so porous last year. If you can get Tom Glavine at some kind of hometown discount, he’s probably worth the upgrade over Buddy Carlyle, even assuming that Jurrjens wins a rotation spot. The bullpen would probably be fine if both Villarreal and Dotel came back, but otherwise Atlanta will need to sign comparable talents, since there’s very little pitching in the farm system. In some ways, then, this is a hand that kind of plays itself. With a lineup of Johnson/Rowand/Chipper/Teixeira/McCann/Francoeur/Diaz/Escobar and a rotation of Smoltz/Hudson/Glavine/Jurrjens/James, the Braves would quite probably be the best team in the division, and very possibly the best in the National League. Turner Field fans are hungry again after overcoming their fatigue, and with the farm system in a relative lull and a host of players like Teixiera and Smoltz all questionable beyond 2008, now is the time to deliver.

What They Will Do: Weak Buy. What I’d worry about is that Frank Wren will sign Glavine and think he’s scored a coup, when in fact the 41-year-old isn’t much better than a fourth starter. —SI By: Nate Silver (BaseballProspectus.com)

By Richmond Brave

November 1, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Really good insight, all points well taken, espicially about Edgar, great guy will be missed. T.Moore is Moore -ron

By Buffalo NY Braves fan

November 1, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Kieran, I once at lunch at the same restaurant that A-rod did, and his waitress told me in May that he was going to opt out of his deal. I was told to keep quiet because she had a million dollar tip riding on it not leaking.

Oh, and my cousins, aunt’s, youngest sister said that John Smoltz will be playing CF for the Braves next season. He wants to be known as the most versatile pitcher ever.

just my 2 cents.

By Max

November 1, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, what about Shannon Stewart as a stop-gag at center? He is consistently a .290 hitter, .345+ OBP and made $1 million last year. Is that a name being mentioned out there at all?

By max

November 1, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

DOB, what about Shannon Stewart as a stopgap at center? He is consistently a .290 hitter, .345+ OBP and made $1 million last year. Is that a made being mentioned out there?

By TK

November 1, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

If the Braves are talking to the A’s about pitching. How about talking to them about Mark Kotsay for CF? I know he has had some back issues….but most of the names that have been dropped on here have some injury issues. btw when did Coco Crisp become so great on defence?? I have always read only average and a better LF!

By Mizzou Guru

November 1, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

DOB- pull your head from your arse. There is no way that Tom Glavine would sign with Washington. It doesn’t matter what they would offer him. At this point in his career, and probably at no point ever in his career, would he be willing to play for a loser like Washington. If his only choices were to play for Washington for $15M and retire, he would retire.

By tkg

November 1, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Good info as usual, DOB.

While we’re talking hot stove … according to T. Moore’s column Wren says they are likely to get their CF by a trade.

Coco Crisp’s name has come up already. Who else may the Braves go after? David DeJesus in K.C.?

I’m wondering if a name from this past off season may surface again … Rocco Baldelli. I know he’s brittle, but I’m betting his asking price from the D’Rays has dropped tremendously because of that. And, if memory serves, he’s relatively cheap and under contract for a few more years. Would the Braves consider a trade for him, hoping that he can get his health together? If so, Baldelli could turn into another Renteria for the Atlanta in terms of trade value after next season — especially if Schaeffer is ready.

Another question…If the Braves sign Glavine, does Chuck James become expendable? Then you would have Hampton, Jurrjens, Reyes and another player or two (along the lines of Cormier and Carlyle) competing for Nos. 4 and 5 in the rotation? Could Chuck be the key to the CF question if Glavine is signed?

By Random

November 1, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Shaun (31 Oct, 5:01 PM):

TampaBrave, you named one situation where strategy comes in to play. [With] the DH a manager must decide on his own when to take out a pitcher and not let who is due up decide whether he�s going to take out his pitcher. He must decide whether to bunt or whether to hit when the 9th hitter is up in a sac situation because all of his hitters are major league caliber and not just eight. He must decide who to DH and not have available to play the field. He must decide whether it would be better to pinch-hit for a major league hitter instead of it being a given that you have to pinch-hit for a pitcher in certain situations. There is certainly as much and there could be more strategy in AL parks.

Shaun, this is where you�re simply flat-@## wrong � there are absolutely no decisions required to be made in the AL that are not also required in the NL (with one exception � see below). Only you choose to minimize most NL decisions by framing them as automatic no-brainers (eg, pinch hitting for the pitcher, having the pitcher bunt, when to take the pitcher out). They are no more automatic than any decision in the AL, and your saying so simply doesn�t make it so. (And you also over-dramatize the difference in offensive capability between the AL�s and NL�s ninth batters.)

(Exception: �[the AL manager] must decide who to DH and not have available to play the field.� Oh, so true, my friend, so true � and I can well imagine how many hours of sleep Terry Francona and every other AL manager has forfeited wrestling with that one.)

Extending your rationale (I want to see the best possible athletes in the roles in which they perform best. That�s what�s most entertaining for me) just a tiny bit further forces you to take the position that baseball should emulate football, with totally separate defensive and offensive squads. (Sure, there would initially be some �two-way� players in baseball like there used to be a lot of in football, but they would soon become equally as rare.) Is that what you want, Shaun? Should baseball have a Designated Bunter (like a place-kicker in football)? Should basketball have a Designated Shooter to take free throws for the center position?

Bottom-line: �the DH negates some [much, rather, imo] decision making [much of it complex and quite �entertaining�] and adds [none at all, with the noted exception].

By AZBravoFan

November 1, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Did anyone catch the ESPN Sportscenter highlight of Jeff Bennett shutting down his opposition in the Venezuelan league? From what I’ve seen of him so far, I’d love to see that guy in the rotation.

By Random

November 1, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

joebrave (Oct 31 11:12 PM): Jared,I personally have no problem with,Glavine,what I do have a problem with is paying 7-8mil for 69 innings,difference between Glavine,and James and that my friend is fact.

C.James stats 11-10 161.1 ip 116 so 32 hr 4.24 era T.Glavine stats 13 8 200.1 102 so 23 hr 4.45 era not much of a difference for that kind of money�. So he will help a lot huh???????????

Joe, Glavine would not necessarily be replacing James, but rather supplementing him, As N8 said (Oct 28 9:54 PM), You add Glavine�s �innings� to the 3 hole in our rotation, and �bump� everybody back a bit and our [rotation] matches up with ANYBODY�S in baseball.

By stew

November 1, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

One thing eveyone seems to forget is that either of the three candidates for the CF job (Lillibridge/Schafer/or Hernandez) is a big come down from Andruw. Andruw is the greatest player in Atlanta Braves history. The 2 years prior to the aberration of 2007, Andruw drove in around 260 runs. Could either of the three candidates accomplish this in their wildest dreams? How about Andruw winning 10 straight gold gloves? Does everyone think he’s finished? The biggest mistake in Atlanta Braves history - not signing Andruw to a six or seven year contract right now.

By flange1

November 1, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Hey Random, By Random November 1, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this joebrave (Oct 28, 10:11 PM)

The Braves had another Devine a long time ago,I believe his name was Adrian Devine,not that good either!!

Sorry, you are a bit off! Adiran Devine was a pitcher. Here is a linc:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=devinad01

You are thinking of Brian Asselstine

linc

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=BrianAsselstine1953

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 1, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Now, I have to say I am extremely happy to see DOB say what Cameron is expecting to get in terms of cash. I remember many on here (including you DOB) scoffed and lauged at me when I said that Cameron could command $10 to $12 mil a year for three years. That is exactly what he is looking for and somebody will pay it. Now, that may go down a bit after the suspension but not much.

All of these assertions that Cameron could be signed for $5 or $6 mil or no more than $7 mil was just asinine. I said so at the time and now has been confirmed. The man turned down $10 mil a year from the Padres.

I would ask for an apology but I’m sure I won’t get one. All I will say is this. If the Braves or anybody else gives that man $10 or $12 mil a year for three years they are a fool. But, you know what? Somebody will. Guranteed!

I personally think Lillibridge could be the answer in CF. He could leadoff with Escobar hitting 2nd behind him. Chipper, Tex, Frenchy, McCann, K. Johnson, and B. Jones/Diaz could hit behind him. That would be the most balanced lineup in the NL.

By David O'Brien

November 1, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Jared, after July 1 Schilling only made nine regular-season starts and pitched 56-2/3 innings.

Don’t you think the Braves need an innings-eater they can rely on, especially given the troubles they had in that regard this season? Schilling was once a horse, but now he can’t be counted on to pitch 160 innings, much less 200 innings.

I’d like him better in a playoff series than Glavine, but I like Glavine a LOT more to play an integral part in getting the team TO the playoffs. I like their chances with Smoltz, Hudson and whoever else in the No. 3 spot once they get to the playoffs. Just don’t like their chances of getting there without at least one more guy who can pitch 200 innings and give them 30-35 starts, with 20-25 of those being quality starts.

By MGL

November 1, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Chuck James rated A type player by Elias, 20th in NL.

By David O'Brien

November 1, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

TK, I really like Kotsay, always have. Very underrated defensive outfielder — a top-tier defensive player. Health is only question. He’s a very good clubhouse guy, a Braves-type guy, and he gives you enough offense if you’re getting plenty elsewhere.

Mizzou Guru, your eloquence is about what I’d expect from someone with that screen name.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 1, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves should be willing to gamble on Baldelli but only if they don’t have to give up much and he can’t be the only option. A platoon of him and Lillibridge could work. I realize they are both right handed but they could still split time with Baldelli facing the nastier lefties.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 1, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

stew,

Nice sentiment, but Andruw is already showing signs of the wear and tear that’s inevitable when you play almost every inning of every game for 10 years in a demanding position. He’s starting to break down physically and is not making adjustments at the plate.

His 2007 power numbers may well be what to expect from him for the next few seasons, though I think his batting average should return to the .240/.250 level.

The Braves would have been foolish to commit the sort of money he would demand for six or seven years. If he would have taken a hometown discount (5/$75, maybe), then you could justify it. But he’ll get more money and more years, and become some other team’s payroll headadche circa 2010.

By ck

November 1, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

for all you Glavine lovers out there..keep it in prospective… the coup of 1007 was The Yankees stealing away Clemens and we all know how that turned out. Careful with the old guys… Don’t overpay for mediocricy… ( I guess that’s how you spell it).

By David O'Brien

November 1, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), I’m sorry … that you’re such a jerk.

By TennesseePaul

November 1, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best): You’ll get no appology from me. But that’s mainly because I agree. Mr Mediocrity isn’t worth 6-8 million and certainly not worth 10-12 million.

However, that being said… DOB posted the following up above:
Cameron wasn�t much interested in a two-year, $20 offer the Padres were prepared to make in April
It’ll be changed I’m sure. But even I would agree that 10 dollars a season is pretty much a slap in the face. But I’d take him if he could be had for 20 bucks. Hell, I’d fork over the cash myself just to say I signed a major leaguer for two years and 20 dollars.

By David O'Brien

November 1, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), I was kidding. Couldn’t resist.

By DonCoburleone

November 1, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

Sweet, I can talk now, a new blog! I tried to go into the other one a couple days ago and my computer just can’t handle it… THANKS DOB.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 1, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

LOL! No prob, DOB. Am I wrong though? Would it not be insane for any team to pay Cameron that kind of money?

By flange1

November 1, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do I remember correctly, but didn’t the Braves have interest in Joey Gathright about the same time the Royals picked him up? In looking at CF, the Royals have Gathright and DeJesus. I wonder if we could pick up one of the two of those guys?

They brought Gathright up last year and he looked pretty good.

I was actually thinking of him as a minor trade if the “options from with in” didn’t fly.

By ernesto

November 1, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

Kris Benson’s been cut loose…anyone? Anyone? I bet the Braves trainers and bat boys would be all in favor of that circus moving to town.

By DonCoburleone

November 1, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

I still think that the Braves are going after Coco Crisp… I know I know, “He stinks offensively!” I’ve heard that before and judging from the last 2 years that is an accurate statement, but I think a move to the NL (especially the pitching starved NL East) would give his numbers a nice boost. And, lets face it, he is the closest thing defensively to Andruw Jones that is potentially available. I would send Lillibridge to Boston (they need a SS prospect) for Coco and then maybe a B prospect thrown in. That is the ideal move IMO, we could let Coco walk in 2 years and plug either Schafer or Gorkyz in there after that… WE DON’T NEED A BIG BAT FOR CF! Just someone that can hit for the CF average but who can play excellent defense.

By David O'Brien

November 1, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Yes, it’d be fairly insane, if it really does go to $10 mill or more annually for Cameron. But then again, about 50 or more guys in the majors have fairly insane contracts, so….

By ernesto

November 1, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Our old pal Jaret Wright’s been shown the door in Oriole town too. Don’t supposed you can hope for back to back career rejuvinations with the same guy though.

By Kentavo

November 1, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Schilling and Smoltz could co-exist. Not enough oxygen to go around.

I can’t say I can figure out what the Braves will do.

They’ve been pretty aggressive and bold the last couple of years (sometimes too late) but not afraid to shake things up.

By TK

November 1, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

I saw the White Sox cut Darin Erstad. If the Braves go in house he might make a nice platoon guy. Maybe platooning he can stay off the DL. He could also play some 1st if Tex needs a day off.

By ChicagoPaul

November 1, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I was wondering what your thoughts are on David DeJesus, and if you think he’s available. It seems the Braves and Dayton Moore like to make trades together. I believe he is signed through 2010 with a club option for 2011. As always, great blog!

By JC FROM UT

November 1, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

The center field solution is either Cody Ross, Ryan Church or Nate McLouth. How can FW get one of these guys? Would Joey Devine get one of them? Lilibridge is the “sexy ” diamond in the rough choice. I think he will probably make the team out of spring traing but he will be the utility infielder to give all three infielders(not 1st) a day off.

By DonCoburleone

November 1, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

The Fielding Bible Awards are out for 2007! (For those of you who don’t know, the Fielding Bible Award is by faaaaaar superior to the Gold Glove. It is voted on by people who look at things objectively, rather than just looking at who won last year and giving it to them. It is voted on by guys like Bill James, Rob Neyer, and Hal Richman). Anyway, without further ado, your 2007 Fielding Bible Award winners:

Catcher: Yadier Molina (Stl)

Pitcher: Johan Santana (Min)-Maddux 2nd

First Base: Albert Pujols (Stl)

Second Base: Aaron Hill (Tor)

Third Base: Pedro Feliz (SF)

Shortstop: Troy Tulowitzki (Col)

Left Field: Eric Byrnes (Ariz)

Center Field: ANDRUW JONES (Atl)

Right Field: Alex Rios (Tor)

Notable Braves players (other than Andruw): Teixera(7th), Willie Harris(5th) and Matt Diaz!(10th), Jeff Francoeur(t-2nd), Hudson(5th) and Smoltz(10th).

By Oregon_Braves

November 1, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

How many days until Spring Training?? How many more times can Dayn Perry prove to be a total douchebag?? I love it!

Dave - Hearing out-of-this-world things about the Coen’s No Country for Old Men. Seen the trailer yet? Wow. Also keep an eye out for Paul Thomas Anderson’s There Will Be Blood.

By DonCoburleone

November 1, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Fielding bible website

By Rev. Zoldars

November 1, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Coco for Lillibridge is a good idea at all. Especially if we know for a fact we are dumping him in 2 years or so when our farm team is ready.

When we signed Tex and traded all those prospects, we intended on keeping him past his contract. I assume it would not be up to the Braves if he walks. (Due to him wanting extravagant amts of money and the like)

That said, we might have “sold the farm” for 1 1/2 years of service.

But to KNOW that we will not be retaining a marginal outfielder past two years, and we give up a highly touted prospect with a higher ceiling than Crisp, I think, is dumb.

It is debateable that when we aquired Tex, he had a higher ceiling than all the prospects we traded away to get him. Not only that, but he is currently at that aformentioned ceiling.

However, I like the idea of Gathright or dejesus for two reasons. We have a good repore with the royals (Dayton Moore), and I would imagine we could give up less than our best infield prospect to acquire him.

Who that would be, I do not know. But dammit, we should talk up Thorman more in public, cause the royals seem to enjoy mediocrity

By Michael in Brooklyn

November 1, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

I’m kind of amazed at how little Gregor Blanco gets mentioned (I see his name in only one post). The Braves scored a lot of runs last year with a lousy contribution from their centerfielder, who hit in the middle of the order for half of a season. Andruw was the greatest defensive centerfielder baseball has ever seen for the first four years of his career, but he’s now merely one of the better CFs in baseball (and if you don’t believe me, go to ESPN.com and look up his numbers for putouts, assists, RF, and ZR over the past few years). Blanco’s minor league numbers show that although he has no pop, he gets on base, doesn’t strike out, has good speed, and plays an excellent center field. If I’m Frank Wren, I invest my money in starters and go into spring training feeling pretty good about either Lillibridge or Blanco emerging as my everyday $300K centerfielder.

By TK

November 1, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

I repeat…when did Coco Crisp become more than an average CF’er??? Close to AJ??? wow I must have missed something.

By Lew

November 1, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

BuffaloBravesFan-Have you ever seen Smoltz in the outfield? He’s not bad.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 1, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Dave O’Brien , good point about the Marte trade , John Schuerholz made a trade that just keeps on giving. I would put money on it that the Braves are considering Coco Crisp as an option. You have to admit , his two years contract(08-09) which totals at 10.5 million with a 2010 team option makes a lot of sense for the Braves with Schafer and Hernandez still a year or two away. Lillibridge makes sense to , the Braves switched Kelly Johnson from the OF to 2B and as you have already stated , Lillibridge has played CF previously. Glavine is a lock to be a Braves in 2008 , he wants to come back , the Braves want him back and the money to sign him is available. Ive got such a positive vibe about this team in 2008 , they are addressing the two most important needs , Pitching and Defense. Frank Wren is going to look really smart even though John Schuerholz will deserve just as much credit. Lets Go Braves !!!!!!

By Kentavo

November 1, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

D.O.B., exactly how much $$ money are the Braves working with in light of the Andruw and Edgar salaries coming off the books? I know several other players are due for raises and arbitration, but are they dealing with $10 million - I hate to say extra - but what can they accommodate (roughly) in terms of payroll addition?

By Gary

November 1, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, for 8-10 mill it seems like we could get a great young pitcher for the future rather than take a chance that a 41 year old Glavine still has 200 innings left. We already have a 40-year-old starter in Smoltz and I worry he might not be able to finish another season. The last thing I want to read on these blogs next year is everyone trashing these two HOF pitchers because our over-the-hill pitching staff has run out of gas. One aging veteran pitcher is enough. Let’s use our limited payroll to find some great young arms that are going to be helping the Braves win for a long time, not just next year. We should only sign Glavine at a steep discount, not 8-10 mill regardless of how much some irresponsible GM on another team offers him. It’s too risky.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 1, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

You’re right about insane contracts, DOB. I’m still baffled by the Angels giving a scrub like Gary Matthews Jr. a 5yr/$50 mil deal. That is just amazing to me.

By Kentavo

November 1, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

The word is rapport not repore.

By Mizzou Guru

November 1, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

DOB- KU football is a fraud!

By DonCoburleone

November 1, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this

To say we need to upgrade our pitching staff is quite the understatement… Check out these totals I just figured out: Between Buddy Carlyle, Mark Redman, Jo Jo Reyes, Kyle Davies, and Lance Cormier this is what we got:

16-27; 311 IP; 6.25ERA

My God! And who are these people b!tching that we couldn’t use Glavine’s 13-8, 200 innings and 4.3 ERA???

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

My 2 cents worth:

Crisp could probably be had for someone like Villarreal.

DeJesus is an interesting prospect for CF, and wouldn’t take much to get.

Sullivan in Denver would be a suitable stop gap or backup outfielder. Decent bat, no power.

No thank you to Curt Schilling.

TG is OK for a one year plug. He would fill a role and give JoJo and Triple J another year to develop, before having to totally count on him.

Chuck James might be packaged for another starter. He and Brandon Jones for Blanton???

Kotsay would also be a decent stop gap.

No thank you to Mike Cameron.

If TG balks, I would not be opposed to making a play for Carlos Silva. Decent numbers, and only 28ish.

Whaddya think? I am ready for the next trade announcement!!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 1, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

The non-objective stats compile like this when considering the best defensive center fielders : 1. Ichiro Suzuki 2. Curtis Granderson 3. Coco Crisp 4. Grady Sizemore 5. Andruw Jones.

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Unless we get a top tier pitcher (Haren type), let’s please not trade Lillibridge or Devine!

By Saltywoody

November 1, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

Good to hear about Yunel’s attitude. I’m assuming Eddie Perez is a pretty good judge of character, too. Thanks.

Frankly, I’d LOVE to see Smoltzie in the outfield. At least maybe during his last game in ATL. You know, kind of like Biggio getting to catch in his last Astros game for giggles.

But, for the love of everything holy, PLEASE NO COCO CRISP. I’m not sure if anyone suggesting that actually watched the World Series, but Coco looked totally overmatched the entire time. He defense and speed are slightly above average…but not worth whatever it would take to get him.

And, much as I like Darin Erstad (when he was on the Angels 17 years ago), he was not so effective on the White Sox last year. But, hey- player/coach?

By AdirondackDave

November 1, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

Everybody in the free world knows Coco Crisp has lost his job with the Red Sox. Nobody, but nobody, is going to overpay for him. My guess is that a couple of low to mid-level minor leaguers will get him. Certainly no prospect in the Lillibridge-class. Just not necessary.

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 1, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

STEW I have seen several folks commenting a that center field replacement needs to replace the homeruns AJ hit. I believe this is wrong. Tex replaces the home runs AJ hit, batting forth in the line up. the new Braves CF needs to rplace the production we got out of Scott Thorman/Craig Wilson at 1B. I think our offense will be better with Tex and CF replacement than AJ and 1B replacement. Just how I looked at the offensive lineup.

By Saltywoody

November 1, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

Ohhh, and I like Kotsay and totally agree what DOB said…class act, hard worker, Braves-type guy.

HOWEVER, I’ve been in the Bay Area and have watched him play (or not play) a few times at the Coliseum. He’s an overpriced injury waiting to happen. And every year he insists he’s totally healthy in the spring…looks good for a few weeks…and then his back snaps in half.

Like the guy a lot, but would rather watch BJ/Hernandez/Lillibridge find their way out there.

By John

November 1, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

How do i say… STOP SIGNING OLD GUYS WHO ALREADY PUT IN THEIR TIME FOR THE BRAVES.. Glavine is done, just like Julio Franco is done.. Glavine is at best a 4 or 5 guy in the rotation ad while the braves need that they don’t need him for that price.. Same goes for schilling.. can’t throw over 90 anymore.. go young and find a superstar.. better yet get a competent pitching coach like ooo sayy leo mazzone and let him develop some madduxs and glavines of the future.. but i love griffey get griffey kid can still play

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 1, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

TK , you missed a lot. Coco Crisp in 2007 , 1st in fielding percentage (.998) , 1st in errors with one , 3rd in put outs with 408. 3rd in total chances with 416. The last two defensive stats are really amazing when you take into consideration the fact that he started and played fewer games and innings than Suzuki , Sizemore , Granderson and A.Jones.

By AdirondackDave

November 1, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

I would go for Shilling under these circumstances. 1. We don’t get Glavine for some reason and 2. We do get a Blanton-Haren stud type. Shilling then makes excellent sense as a 4th starter who we are not so dependent on as an innings eater. I would love to have him in the post-season. Does this make sense to anybody else?

By ncscoots

November 1, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

Michael, Blanco is a perfect example of the-numbers-say-this-but-my-eyes-say-that. He’s a two-year AAA kid, so his numbers OUGHT to be good. But his OBP won’t be as good in the bigs, ‘cause no pitcher will be afraid to throw fastballs to him: he can’t hurt you.

I like his defense, but I think ML pitchers will overpower him. And, yes, I’ve watched him play some over the last couple of years, as have other bloggers. Maybe they’ll chime in, too; the above is just one man’s opinion.

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

If Smoltzie could hold down an OF spot when not pitching, then maybe Francoeur could go 7-8 innings with that gun of his? Maybe a platoon?

:-)

Power potential for 2008

Tex 35

KJ 20

Escobar 15

Hoss 30

BJ/Diaz 15

Lillibridge (CF) 10

Frenchy 25

Baby Huey 25

Sounds like a potent enough lineupto me???

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

Is it December yet???

By BravesFanInRockies

November 1, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

John,

Kid can still play. Just not CF, and that’s what the Braves need.

Wayne,

Agree with much of what you say — Crisp should be easy to obtain. But I think Chuck deserves another chance. After all, his ERA was below league average. He may never be an innings eater, but by golly he’s cheaper than any veteran out there.

By I'M WITH STUPID

November 1, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

NO Glavine , we don’t need that Hall Of Famer , I hate Winning pitchers ! I hate winning altogether !

By TK

November 1, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Sooo Crisp was so good in 2007 that he went from average for years to great? That he was so good in CF a rookie beat him out at the end of the year. In the WS he replaced Manny in LF and the rookie stayed in CF. Chances for an outfielder just means the pitchers don’t or can’t get ground balls!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 1, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

David DeJesus ain’t going anywhere , the Royals have him locked up until 2010. his five year contract(2006-2010) is dirt cheap compared to most at 13.8 million.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 1, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

TK , your an uninformed moron. Crisp was hurt during the ALCS and played sparingly because of it during the series. Maybe you can explain to me why Crisp played in 145 games for the World Champion Red Sox in 2007 ? Then again , No you can’t , you don’t have the brains for it.

By ncscoots

November 1, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

If TG balks, I would not be opposed to making a play for Carlos Silva. Decent numbers, and only 28ish.

But, Wayne, Silva is the (slightly curdled) cream of the crop among FA pitchers this year. Gil Meche money and years coming soon to a Silva near you, I’m guessing. I’d hate to tie up big dollars in a guy such as Silva with the pitching FAs that will be available in the next couple of years.

By DonCoburleone

November 1, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

I WANT COCO CRISP!!!

By richbrave

November 1, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

Tennessee Paul: Great analysis. Glad someone out there realizes the center-field fix needs to carry us past Texeira’s potential flight and Chipper’s increased liklihood of extended DL visits. Rowand’s a great bridge over troubled water. Should do well in the two hole, and not be too expensive. One other point I would like to make involves the line-up’s attitude toward opposing pitching.

I watched very little of this year’s Series, but two things were quite obvious (1) Boston’s pitching was outstanding (2) how deep into counts the batter’s carried Colorado’s pitching. They simply wore out Colorado starters. And they weren’t just fouling off pitch after pitch, aggressively hacking away. They were more like Tex and Chip are MOST of the time. Point here is the Braves seem much less patient. One major goal of a hitter should be to wear out the starter ASAP. Frenchie’s getting there, I could see it. Others in the lineup unfortunately seem to be headed in the other direction. Is that caused by lack of major-league experience, or coaching?? If Pendleton’s teaching kids to be too aggressive at the plate, the team allows opposing starters to go deeper into games than they should, and that leads to losses.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 1, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

And upon further review…… I don’t think there is really any doubt as to if Brent Lillibridge can play centerfield. I think the doubt might be if he can hit major league pitching consistently at this stage of his career.

As for the question about who the better shortstop might be, Brent or Escobar, right now I would have to give the edge to Yunel. He is older and is more developed.

Knowing now that Lillibridge was playing with a sore wrist and still batting for a high average only impresses me more.

Having a strong arm is always a plus and that includes playing centerfield. It is nice to know you have options…… :-)))

Just remember, a lot of great players came up through the minors as shortstops only to be moved somewhere else when they hit the majors.

Union or not, a player cannot dictate where he will play, that is still up to management.

By Michael in Brooklyn

November 1, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

ncscoots:

“the-numbers-say-this-but-my-eyes-say-that” is kind of a silly thing to say, no? I’m wondering what your eyes bring to the table that data doesn’t. The numbers tell me (and they tell Baseball Prospectus) that Blanco has a decent shot at .285/.350/.400, for the wholesale price of $300K. Aaron Rowand, who is a career .286/.343/.462 guy, will cost $10M, and a three or four year deal would likely block the real talent in the low minors. Coco Crisp is a .280/.329/.409 hitter who plays great defense but will likely cost us more than Villarreal, as someone above suggested.

All I’m saying is, let Blanco and Lillibridge battle it out to be our CF and 8th place hitter, and put the money towards starting pitching. Andruw hit .222/.311/.413. I don’t care about the home runs, he was never on base. He scored 83 runs in 154 games for a team that was third in the league in runs scored.

And by the way, I’ve seen Blanco play several times in the last three years in for Mississippi and Richmond. He’s not a worldbeater, and his career will probably be over before he’s 30. But right now and for the next three years, he’s as good as he’s going to be, he’s probably a league average centerfielder (and Andruw was well below league average last year, even with the HRs), and he costs nothing. And if Lillibridge is better, great. But it’s stupid to spend money on a CF when we seem to have so many options and so many other pressing needs.

By Shaun

November 1, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

TK, Crisp is not a good hitter—just a small step above Corey Patterson—but he may be the best defensive centerfielder in the league. The Braves have always put a premium on defense and Crisp has shown some signs, however small, that he could be a halfway decent hitter.

I wasn’t big on Crisp as a possibility and I’m still not enthusiastic but he could be the best option of all the cheap guys that could be had. And look what Andruw produced last season and the Braves were fine. Of course they may not get the same kind of production out of Chipper but then again Teixeira wasn’t here the entire year and nobody else should decline.

Oh, and Crisp played center when Manny came out of the game; Ellsbury moved to left.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 1, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

Anybody remember the trade rumor last season that had Andruw Jones going to the Red Sox for Lester , Crisp and Hansen ? It wasn’t a rumor. The Braves tried to get Crisp as part of that trade and they still want him.

By Miss Manners

November 1, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

A new twist: “your an uninformed moron.”

By Shaun

November 1, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Coach, actually TK is right in that Crisp is not that good a hitter. And I think the reason Crisp played so much was because Ellsbury is a 23-year-old and 2007 was only his second full season, not in the majors, but in pro baseball.

Again, I’m not too excited about Crisp but he may be the best option if the Braves feel like they are going to hit like they have the last several seasons and they want to go defense first in center.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 1, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Miss Manners , there are people who wish to discuss the pro’s and con’s of who and what will help the Braves. Then there are the trolls , who argue inane stupidity for the sake of attracting negative attention to themselves. If someone wants to have an intelligent conversation about baseball , thats fine by me. If not , I keep the baseball bat close.

By The Inflammatory Miss Manners

November 1, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Now, Coach, “if someone wants to have an intelligent conversation about baseball” you know you’ll have to be excluded :-). Your Friend, Miss Manners

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 1, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Shaun , Crisp is valued for his defense. However , he had a better batting .AVG(.268) and OBP(.330) than Andruw , he is a switch hitter and that 50 walk / 84 strike out ratio is pretty good to. He has never struck out much , which managers love to see. Crisp is a decent hitter with above average speed , base running ability (28 stolen bases) and of course his outstanding defense and more than affordable contract. Which is why the Braves tried to get him in 2006 and you can bet they will be after him again this winter.

By Corey

November 1, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

You are dead wrong about Griffey. The last three seasons he has averaged 127 games and 31 home runs. On the other hand, Chipper Jones has averaged 119 games and 25 home runs. Which #’s would you rather have?

Championship teams don’t put in young players too soon and hope for the best. They let them prove themselves at AAA (not A) and go from there. We need Griffey for 2 or 3 years and then the young guys will be ready.

Heck, I’d put Willie Harris at CF before I’d spend prospects on Co Co Crisp.

By TennesseePaul

November 1, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

richbrave: Wish I could take all the credit, or some of it. Copied that from an article on SI. Link at the end of the article.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 1, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Have to agree about Blanco as not quite ready for prime time. Really nice kid and I wish him all the success in the world. His defense is strong enough, who knows, maybe he will mature a bit more during winter ball and become an all star. Doubt it will happen but who knows?

Interesting power numbers projected by one of our denizens. I think you might be a tad low on you projection for left field. Brandon Jones is still a growing kid. Then again, overall it looks about right. I think the number of home runs will be down again this year as players return to normal.

I look for speed to be the next big thing. It will not be appreciated by the casual fan but to the hard core baseball folks it is going to be a breath of fresh air after all the idol worship for the big fly.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 1, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Shuan , you want to see a really brutal stat ? Try this one on for size. 76 walks and 319 strike outs in 1550 at bats for a ratio of 4 to 1. That would be our boy in RF , Jeff Francoeur.

By N8

November 1, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

Seem as though A-Rod might be heading back to the minors.

Arod offered contract

By TK

November 1, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

I think I am having Rocco flash backs from last year. Anyone from the farm system for him…which included Salty and Escobar. That would have worked out well. Now the last I am going to say about Crisp. I have not seen Crisp this year play much. For years I have read average CF’er on defence. Now he is one of the best in all of baseball? Now the talk is he can be had for a minor leaguer. Why would Boston give him away for a nobody? NOT MONEY!!! Before I would give him away I would keep him to replace Manny in late innings or if Ellsbury is not ready.

By BraveNess

November 1, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

KC 4:05 � Absolutely no reason not to use replay for: fair/foul calls, homerun calls, plays at the plate, or any game-ending play. Beyond that, I agree that we can�t get carried away a video-review everything.

Given the �attitude� and number of obvious erroneous calls of many umpires the last however many years I�m inclined to agree. I also agree that it wouldn�t slow the game down. Further, it wouldn�t change the flow or �feel� of the game and it wouldn�t affect the essential or substantive traditional aspects of the game either. Right now we watch the TV announcers replay controversial plays over and over anyway. How many times over the years have we seen a critical play or home run called the wrong way? Sure, we have TV replay and the best vantage point; so let the umpires have the same advantage. In a way, it makes the game more honest and puts the critical �inches� back in the game of inches.

It�s simple� pitches are measured using something similar to the Questech setup. On every pitch, a signal is sent to some kind of electrical device held by the umpire, and he then announces the call.

It is simple, this will never, ever happen. At least I hope it never happens. With your plan, why have an umpire stand behind the plate at all if a �device� is going to �tell� him what to �announce�? Maybe the stadium announcer could add that to their job duties? Maybe Katie Couric would do it?

Don�t get me wrong, we are in desperate need of fixing the often-horrendous strike/ball calling behind the plate, but to turn it completely over to a �QuesTec type� device is scary (and also imperfect and not tamper free). QuesTec should be used as it was designed and intended, as an umpire information system (UIS) to �grade� the ump, not to call the game.

My recommend would be to actually enforce umpire inaccuracy (not evident currently) and add incentives for sustained umpire accuracy. Let the UIS grades determine where umps are positioned on the field or whether they deserve to be on the field at all. Let Q-Tec grades also serve to promote the best officiating. In playoff games, have UIS judged inning by inning, with a rule to change umpires between innings if obvious calls are being missed.

As an extreme example, Eric Gregg would have lost his job after the dubious Florida/Braves game 5 of the 97 NLCS. Livan Hernandez received an inordinate amount of �help�. Eric Gregg was scandalously horrible with his strike zone. May he rest in peace�but I�ll never forget that suspicious debacle. Would accountable officiating have changed the outcome of that game? The series? We�ll never know.

By Tyler

November 1, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Villareal and Blanco for Crisp? Crisp is a viable option, just admit it. He has speed, excellent defense, and a little pop. And he won’t take much to get. That said…

We need another reliable “ace”. I don’t mean Santana, more like Haren/Blanton. Obviously. We have the tools to get someone and it needs to get done. If we get one of those Glavine is just icing, as is Hampton. Glavine as our #4 is the only way we’ll really improve our rotation. Having Glavine as our #3 will be a lot like having James as our #3. He won’t give us much more than 6 innings (Maybe a little sometimes), a 4+ ERA, but he is older and more experienced. We need an upgrade, and then we can slide Glavine in if he signs.

By Tomas

November 1, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Coco Crisp is definitely the best option to play CF for the Braves. He is a fantastic defender, with austanding speed. He is an average hitter, better than Andruw, but without the power numbers Andruw has had. Coco definitely could win a gold glove one day. He is in my top 5 defensive Centerfielders:

Andruw Jones
Torri Hunter
Coco Crisp
Chris Young
Garry Matthews jr.

-Coco runs very well. He was a leadoff hitter in Cleveland. He is a fantastic bunter, and stold 28 bases this season. I’d say that in the market there is no better choice than Crisp.

The second best option is Brent Lillibridge. I haven’t seen him play, but from what I have read he is a good hitter, who is an outstanding Shortstop. Braves have said they are going to convert him to CF, just like they converted KJ into a 2B.

It’s either one of this two option not both. Because if we trade for Crisp, most certainly they will ask for Brent Lillibridge.

By Random

November 1, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

flange1

You nailed me — you’re absolutely right. I was thinking of Brian Asselstine.

(And so I’ve betryed my age twice now — once by rembering him, and again by misremembering him.)

Thanks for the catch.

PS: my apologies to joebrave.

By Tomas

November 1, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

TK,

Coco has always been very good. But definitely his managers comments gave a huge boost, he said he is a gold glove center fielder. He has made some amazing catches in a tough ballpark like Fenway. He has very good range, and an average arm. Playing in Boston definitely help Coco get more reputation as a CF. he is owed ten million for the last two years of his contract.

By aplasef

November 1, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

i like how dob shot down both terrence moore (griffey) and mark bradley’s (frenchy) ideas for centerfield. way to show terrence moore how stupid he is, dave.

By Niekro35

November 1, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

Ah, Brian Asselstine. He would have been a hell of a player. I think it was Murphy who replaced him in center. Tragedy has always been a hallmark of this organization, even when they started winning.

If Coco Crisp is getting $5M a year as Tomas claims, then he’s definitely not worth having. He’s a fourth outfielder, as those of us in Boston who know him best know all too well.

By bill

November 1, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

Everyone has an opinion and here is mine for what it’s worth. I’m for going young. The Braves will have enough offense. LF B.Jones CF Schafer or Blanco 2nd Base Lillibridge. Trade K. Johnson, C.James and Devine to Pirates for Snell and sign Glavine. Up grade the bench and another lefthanded RP. I’m just not sold on C. James and don’t believe the Braves are either. I’m not sold on signing Glavine.

By Tomas

November 1, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

Amazing Catches Look at the catch Coco Crisp made at second 0:48.

By TennesseePaul

November 1, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

why have an umpire stand behind the plate at all if a �device� is going to �tell� him what to �announce�?

I’m not particularly fond of this system myself, but I must point out that there are still more calls to be made from Home than just balls and strikes.

By Tomas

November 1, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

The reason Coco just became a fourth outfielder is because Jacoby Ellsburry made a big impact in the playoff’s, but you’re talking about the guy who was brought to replace Johnny Damon. He hit 300 in 145games in 2005 with Cleveland.

By humbug

November 1, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

Based on what I’ve read here the Braves should have no problem in fielding a championship team next season. These writers seem to be very knowledgeable and have expertise to know there are plenty good CF and P out there and they won’t cost much. I am astounded that real baseball people can’t seem to see that. Maybe it’s that they have to put more into it than mouth.

By geauxbraves2000

November 1, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

I remember Brian Asselstine quite well, for he is my step dad’s cousin. I never met him though.

Geaux Braves!!

By geauxbraves2000

November 1, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t it be interesting if the Braves offered AJ arbitration and he pulled a Maddux?

Ah, the chess match that is the hot stove league.

Geaux Braves!!

By Swing & A Miss

November 1, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

I used to live in the Seattle area and saw a lot of Cameron when he was with the Mariners. While the guy can go get em with the best of the CF’s out there, if the Braves sign him, you will BE WISHING for Andruw Jones swinging and missing, because Cameron is a K-machine, rally killer, etc. He is a horrible batter, with a very low BA. His HRs have dropped as have his RBIs. I would never pay him the money he is demanding. That is what moved him out of Seattle and he has been a has been since he left there. I would not invest $3 million on him, much less his $36 mil asking price. No way Jose, Braves do not need a doper on the team.

By Sir Stealth

November 1, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m the one who said that Neil’s new album didn’t sound as good to me based on early tracks that I heard, and that hasn’t changed a ton now that the album has come out. Maybe I’m just trying to counterbalance my nonstop Braves optimism on this blog by hating on both the new Neil album and the Renteria trade.

That being said, I think I have some credibility given that not only do I have a bigger collection of Neil Young than you can imagine (that not only includes every album he’s put out in the last 40 years but also an absurd amount of live material), I’m also someone who has thought his output in the last decade has been outstanding, so it’s not like I think he’s lost it or anything. Similarly, I fully supported the Ramirez/Soriano, Laroche/Gonzalez, and Texeira trades, as well as most anything else the Braves organization or management has done (I’ve mentioned before that I have a custom made Bobby Cox t-shirt/jersey, so not exactly one of the haters right here).

So with that long intro, Neil’s new album isn’t worth all the hype it’s gotten and the Edgar trade sucks. I’m not saying there aren’t good elements to both. Still no better guitar sound than Neil wailing on that Ol’ Black guitar. Sounds great on Ordinary people, sounds even better on No Hidden Path. Maybe I’m not as excited about Ordinary People because it’s a tune that I’ve had forever and heard getting overhyped forever. I love the many intricate lyrics and I love the passionate guitar. But it’s an overrated song and, more, it sounds a little absurd for Neil to be acting like he understand the “Ordinary People,” especially considering his outrageous ticket prices. The rest of the album isn’t necessarily bad, I just think that Neil’s the kind of artist that has set his own bar extremely high.

I also don’t agree with you on the Renteria trade. I wasn’t against trading him (even though I didn’t really want to), but I definitely wanted more if we did. Two solid but not knockout prospects just aren’t enough for a player of his caliber (at his salary). The 2008 Braves are worse, not better, because of the trade. If we just needed more prospects/salary to make another great move that will come, great - I’m really looking forward to it. But as I said before - don’t like it.

I still like the Braves to win the East in 2008. Steve Earle’s new album is awesome. So there’s some nice things to say. Guess I just had to get all the negativity out of my system at this point before I start hating on the haters again.

By Niekro35

November 1, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

None of the free agent possibilities for CF seem realistic. And it’s not worth trading for a CFer from a team which will need high level prospects (or KJ) in return, if all we need is one for one or two years. Let’s hope Lillibridge shows he can play center this winter.

By Ralph

November 1, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

DOB you didn’t give us anything new. Same old bull about Glavine and no top CF. I believe Wrens is out to improve the Braves and I don’t see any improvement with what you said. Glavine will be a flop this year and Cox will leave him in till he gives up 6 or 7 runs . Coach you are correct on COCO, he had what Boras said was the majestic # over 400 PO, He also hit 300 his last year with Indians.(280 lifetime) Great to have on team keeps everyone loose. DOB I know you love TG ” thats cool” but I hope WREN will say no to GT.

By CC Rider

November 1, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

OK GUYS, I have listened all night about who we should get to play centerfield and the same old stinky names surface like turds in a punchbowl. Let’s look at the big picture! Last year Yunel and Salty played great in the Arizona Fall League and guess what? They showed they were ready for the big time, but were kept in the minors until the Woodwards and C. Wilsons stunk it up and drug us down. Jordan Schafer is batting .390 with 12 RBI’s and with an OBP approaching .500. HE COULD BE READY come spring training! Lillibridge could be ready , too. WHY trade for a castoff from another team, when the long term answer may be ready. I firmly believe either of these guys could give you as much or better than any of the players brought up in discussion today. I also think the future lineup of this team has been planned around signing Mark Texiera. C-Brian McCann, 1st Base- Texiera or Jason Heyward, 2nd base-Brent Lillibridge, SS-Yunel Escobar, 3b- Mark Texiera(HE PLAYED 3b in college at GA. Tech and could be Chippers replacement but not likely) or a player traded for Jason Heyward, LF Gorky Hernandez, CF-Jordan Schafer, RF-Jeff Franceour. Analysis: Hernandez, Lillibridge,Schafer,Texiera Franceour, McCann, 3b or Heyward,Escobar. Speed and base stealing at the top, high average hitter with 20hr power in the 3 hole, Texiera cleaning up and power or high average in the last 4 spots plus unbelieveable defense. That is a young lineup with the balance to win a World Series. If we can trade for another potentially #2 or #3 starter: BLanton, Haren, Greinke,Etc. or Sign a #1 free agent: Jake Peavy( He grew up a Braves fan in Alabama), Scott Kazmir, Eric Bedard,Etc. and Reyes, Jurgens become solid starters and one or two of the Rohrborough, Hanson, Locke, Richmond Come through. Well you see the potential! You may ask who do we trade for that #2 or #3 starter? Let’s start with Kelly Johnson. I know, I know, everybody loves Kelly. He was a great story last season, well until August and particularly September. August: average and power started dropping, but SEPTEMBER!!! he batted .200 with an OBP of .250 with only 5 RBI. A bad month, MAYBE, or was it a trend. You add that to average at best defense and you at least have a question MARK?? Brandon Jones, a very good player, but not a power guy, base stealer, great outfield arm. Chuck James, a good number 5, Maybe a #4 with further development. WOuld this package get Haren? Maybe. Wouldn’t it be nice to see. Let’s hope Frank Wren is thinking along these lines, because to catch the Red Sox in a few years we have to think big picture.

By jr

November 1, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

DOB What’s the chances of Leo Mazzone returning?

By David O'Brien

November 1, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Kentavo, good look EVERY finding out how much money the Braves have to work with on anything. Dude, they simply don’t give that out, not what the payroll is, the limit, the room left, what they’re paying on Edgar’s contract, etc. Have to work our butts off to get ANY of that, and it’s pieces here and there….

Sir Stealth, you’re certainly entitled to your reasoned, thoughtful opinion. I just completely disagree with you on both accounts. But that’s cool. It’s what makes this kinda thing fun to discuss.

And I really couldn’t care less what Neil wants to charge for tickets. Old man is getting paid, way I look at it, for all the times he should’ve been paid more when he was making much of the greatest music in rock and roll history.

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Yo Random check your facts Jack@ss,Adrian Devine was a Pitcher for the Braves,the Outfielder you’re referring to is Brian Asselstine….I told you people I been here 35 years so if you want to talk Braves smack at least Know what the He11 you’re talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

I think it is interesting to read the posts. I am curious as to the value that some place on players. Often times we (collectively) overrate our players, and underrate those we are proposing trades for.

I think in general, we are close to reality, but I am curious that some think CoCo is worth more than others. To be honest, on a truly winning team, he is at best a 4th outfielder, that will suffice for a while as a starter. BUT, most teams are not going to win with him as their CF’er, unless they have a strong lineup (Bosox and Braves are probably exceptions to my statement).

In reality, I don’t think any of us predicted the return for Renteria. So, if we pick up CoCo, he will probably go for a player(s) that we are not thinking of.

Personally, I think he could be had for a pitcher (Cormier, Villarreal, etc.) or for a mid level minor leaguer or two.

It will be interesting to see in reality, what really happens.

Sir Stealth: I like the Edgar trade as we picked up a pitcher that has a 50-50 chance to be a 12-14 game winner, and a prospect that probably has a 50-50 chance to be a good to great, speedy outfielder.

I think we put a high value on Edgar, but look what the Sox got for him two years ago. I think he was a great #2 hitter, and a decent SS. Certainly NOT an outstanding SS. I suspect we will all be quite thrilled with the work that Yunel will do at SS next year. I think he will make us forget about Edgar’s glove.

I personally hope we pick up someone like Crisp, DeJesus, Sullivan, etc. BUT, I also hope Lillibridge gets a full shot at CF next spring. If he can hit as well as I suspect he will, I think we will be pleasantly surprised. I remember many saying he is a real gamer, a throw back. A real player.

Time will tell.

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

How about Prado, Thorman, Cormier and Orr for Carl Crawford!!!

:-)

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

I rayher doubt You even know who Ralph Garr is,Randomand until you can tell me all about Charlie Spikes,Mike Lum,Brian Asselstine,Jeff Burroughs,Preston Hannah,and the likes you don’t know $hit about the Braves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So stop trying to be a $mart@ssed Professor and quit correcting me little boy before I take your ignorant @ss to Task!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ve been around this Team a whole helluva lot longer than most people here Even our Gracious Host DOB!!!!!!

By Thrillhouse44

November 1, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

DOB - thanks for the great blog and the work that goes into it. Some people are complaining about the lack of information, but you give us more than we can get anywhere else.

Did you get any kind of reaction from Braves’ officials about the Cameron test? Did you sense any disappointment?

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Random,I would also inform you,that the same Mr.Asselstine,was traded to the Blue Jays,along with an obscure pitcher,for Doyle Alexander’s first go around with Atlanta,yes the same Doyle Alexander that brought John Smoltz to the Braves………

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

Three things,I hate in life,gnats,flies,and ignorant smart@sses!!!!!!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 1, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

Mark Kotsay would be worth signing to a multi-year deal solely for the purpose of getting to have his wife on our side for a while. Holy Smokes, that is one hot lady!!!!

http://umpbump.com/press/hbw-in-search-of-the-elusive-jamie-kotsay/

By Thrillhouse44

November 1, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I’m with you on Lillibridge. The Braves should give him a legitimate shot this spring. I just don’t know that he is ready. If I remember correctly, from what I hear, he’s still a year or two away. Sounds like he’ll be the real deal one day though. Hopefully he puts it all together in the upcoming months.

By james

November 1, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Here are some trade possibilities:

Giants:

Braves: Noah Lowry

Giants: Hernandez, Scott Thorman, and Eric Campbell

the giants want a ton of young players and would recieve that in this trade.

Athletics:

Braves: Rich Harden

A’s: Hernandez and Martin Prado

Braves: Joe Blanton

A’s: Hernandez, Jairo Cuevas, and Chase Fontaine

Braves: Dan Haren

A’s: Chuck James, Hernandez, Brandon Jones, and Kris Medlen

the haren trade most likely wont happen but any of these are likely.

What do you guys think?

By josh

November 1, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

DOB for prez. Quick question.What is going to happen with Thorman,Martin Prado,Buddy Carlyle,Lance Cormier,Bennet,Pete Orr,Ron Mahay,Brandon Jones. It seems the braves have a slew of player that already are pretty good to not so good to who knows what your going to get from them on a game in and out basis The braves have a real shot if they can use any of these player in trade. Or sink some money in the ones they want to keep. My opinion on cf is that it can be taken care in house save the money for pitching. And since we really need some speed maybe thats the position to add it to{ck} is what i meant by that. Go braves

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

joebrave

First, how is the family??? Hope all is well.

Secondly, I gotcha by about 7 years. I was 11 (living in SC) when the Bravos came to town.

To throw out a couple of names, I was a big fan of Clete Boyer. Too short of a time to be here, and sad he is now gone. Nobody went to their right like Clete. Brooks to the left, Clete to the right.

Also, I remember Felix, and one of my other fav’s, Mike dela Hoz.

Now how’s that for name dropping!!! I too hated to see Asselstine go down. I also remember fondly Rico, and the great year he had, I think it was 1971??? “Bezball been beddy beddy good to me!”, he would say.

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Three things,I hate in life,gnats,flies,and ignorant smart@sses!!!!!!

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

joebrave

First, how is the family??? Hope all is well.

Secondly, I gotcha by about 7 years. I was 11 (living in SC) when the Bravos came to town.

To throw out a couple of names, I was a big fan of Clete Boyer. Too short of a time to be here, and sad he is now gone. Nobody went to their right like Clete. Brooks to the left, Clete to the right.

Also, I remember Felix, and one of my other fav’s, Mike dela Hoz.

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Absolutely,Wayne in Utah,and thanks for asking,the kids are doing much better,thanks to everyone for all the Prayers.. Rico was smooth,Cepeda at first for a while was O.K.,but I guess my all time fave has to be Hammerin Hank,then Sarge Mathews…

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Finally good to hear someone who knows something about the Braves,instead of blatant stupidity coming from their pie holes,Thanks Wayne,I needed that!!!whew it do get tiresome on here with some know-it-alls,that really know nothing!! really good conversing with you my friend.

By richbrave

November 1, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

ESPN info comparing CRISP and ROWAND.

CRISP: 5 years experience/$3.833 mil.

     .280/.329/.409
     AVG./OBP /SLG.
     .286/.343/.462

ROWAND:2 years experience/$4.350 mil. 1/2 mil. difference in 2007 pay. Rowand has the better stats, but only two years major-league experience. Also, Rowand’s 30: Crisp 28. Rowand played in 161 games last year. Looks pretty even to me.

By richbrave

November 1, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

OOPs: CWS means WHITE SOX. DUH! Experience about equal. Sorry bloggers!!

By BraveNess

November 1, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

TnPaul - I�m not particularly fond of this system myself, but I must point out that there are still more calls to be made from Home than just balls and strikes.

Obvious and agreed. But you got my main point I trust.

joebrave - good posts for a middle aged man. :>) You’ve dropped some great names. Ahh, the memories. Good stuff. Best stuff: Glad your kids are doing well.

By donkus maximus

November 1, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Asselstine was a right fielder, and got his spikes caught on the old horrible yellow diamond plate fence at the old stadium. He wore number 30 I think. The fence was made out of the old diamond plate screen with holes in it like so many of us have grilled chickens on over the years. Great for grilling chicken, not for baseball. Soon after the terrible injury, the fence was replaced by a plexiglass and then the blue wooden fence eventually. Many may not know that the the old Atlanta Stadium originally had no fence and you had to hit it over the big black permanent wall into the stands for a homer. When the shorter fence was built, the plate and infield was moved back in the stadium. *Bring back Chief Noc-A-Homa and the laughing indian head on the uniform sleeve, plus wear the old solid navy caps on the road with the white A. *

By richbrave

November 1, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

Geez Joe: The old Beaneaters were still in Beantown when I was 11!!Now I do feel old.

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Thanks Braveness,although I don’t consider 42 middle aged…lol!!!!

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

Adrian Devine lifetime stats..+ 1973 21 ATL NL 2 3 24 1 0 0 11 4 32.3 45 24 23 6 12 15 2 0 152 3 0 6.40 3.96 62 1.763 1975 23 ATL NL 1 0 5 2 0 0 0 0 16.3 19 8 8 2 7 8 1 0 76 1 0 4.41 3.78 86 1.592 1976 24 ATL NL 5 6 48 1 0 0 24 9 73.0 72 30 26 3 26 48 1 2 319 7 0 3.21 3.79 118 1.342 1977 25 TEX AL 11 6 56 2 0 0 33 15 105.7 102 43 42 8 31 67 4 0 444 11 1 3.58 4.11 115 1.259 1978 26 ATL NL 5 4 31 6 0 0 11 3 65.3 84 45 43 3 25 26 0 2 294 5 2 5.92 4.08 69 1.668 1979 27 ATL NL 1 2 40 0 0 0 10 0 66.7 84 28 24 8 25 22 2 2 302 5 1 3.24 4.08 126 1.635 1980 28 TEX AL 1 1 13 0 0 0 3 0 28.0 49 22 15 4 9 8 1 0 142 1 0 4.82 3.88 80 2. some outfielder HUH????????????????????????

By pukey noedrew

November 1, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this

terrance moore is soooooo stupid. he has been pushing for griffey for all these years. can you imagine griffey playing 80 games, chipper playing 100, and having 2 40 year-ish old pitchers (smoltz and possibly glavine.) on topof that…hampton’s own private question mark??? DOB, shut TM up. dies he follow the braves? it is offensive.

By pukey noedrew

November 1, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

December 6, 1979: Traded by the Atlanta Braves with Pepe Frias to the Texas Rangers for Doyle Alexander, Larvell Blanks, and $50,000,

Excuse me I was wrong about the Blue Jays,but rght about the players!!!!!!!!

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

with the exception of Asselstine,who did make the Blue Jays roster after a release by the Braves in 1982

By Wayne in Utah

November 1, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

richbrave

You know what they say. Getting older beats the heck out of the alternative!

For you old Braves fans. Tell me what the following players have in common, besides playing at one time or another with the Braves.

Eddie Mathews, Ted Abernathy, Chi Chi Olivo, Danny Frisella, Gary Geiger, Joe Neikro, Dick Kelley, Tommy Aaron, Bill Robinson, Mack Jones, Charlie Lau, Cecil Upshaw, Clete Boyer, Carl Morton, and Johnny Oates.

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

Duane Ward was traded to the Blue Jays for Doyle Alexander….

By joebrave

November 1, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

Buzz Capra,PePe Frias,now there’s 2 more names for ya….

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah Sometimes the alternative is preferable to the longevity. It just depends on how you feel. I am a big believer in quality over quantity. Not doing anything crazy, just after awhile constant pain makes you a pretty miserable S.O.B. and that tends to splatter on everyone around you.

Now baseball…..There is a young outfielder in the Devil Rays organization named Justin Ruggiano, who was originally drafted by the Dodgers. This kid is a surefire major leaguer. I don’t know if he could play center but man can this kid hit……

I bet he could play first base too……

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

November 2, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

Dave, it’s Blaze Foley who wrote “If I Could Only Fly” (title track of a really good Merle Hagaard album, by the way). Lucinda Williams wrote “Drunken Angel” in his memory.

Red Foley sang “Old Shep” and “Chattanoogie Shoe Shine Boy” and other such scholck back in the ’40s and ’50s. Plus he was Pat Boone’s father-in-law and Debby Boone’s grandfather. So old Red has a hell of a lot to answer for, wherever he is.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this

Wayne…. Didn’t they all play with Bobby Cox at some point?

By jame

November 2, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

DOB, what’s Gorkys ETA? Perhaps Lillibridge can play CF until Gorkys is ready, then Escobar moves to 3B and Lillibridge slides to SS. I suspect Chipper will retire after the ‘09 season. But 2 years playing CF surely won’t hurt Lilli’s play at SS, right? I like the potential of that lineup though:

Hernandez CF
Escobar 3B
Johnson 2B
Teixeira 1B
McCann C
Francoeur RF
Heyward LF
Lillibridge SS

Also, will there be any talks regarding Teix’s contract this off-season?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 2, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this

I see we are playing pin the tail on the donkey. Hee Haw , I’ll join in on the fun. What did Johan Santana accomplish in 2004 that Bob Gibson did in 1968. It has everything to do with pitching and they are the only two starting pitchers to ever accomplish this almost impossible feat.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 2, 2007 1:36 AM | Link to this

Remember Jeff Bennett ? The young right hander in four starts so far in Venezuela : 20.1 innings pitched 17 hits allowed 4 earned runs 6 walks 13 strike outs 2 wins 1 loss and a 1.77 ERA . Trade bait or potential starter , I don’t know. We shall see what the future holds.

By Wayne in Utah

November 2, 2007 1:57 AM | Link to this

Coach: You asked this one before, and I never got the connection. I did look up their years, and just couldn’t hit it.

Gil: They have all passed away. They now play in the Heavenly League!

jame: Where is Schafer? I put him in CF before Hernandez. Also, I suspect Tex will not be here past next year. Scott Boras. Also, where is Eric Campbell or Cody Johnson. I suspect Cody Johnson or the big Hawaiian kid could play first in Tex’ absence. Also, KJ might be a decent first sacker. I have always thought that he might end up there. Here is my list for 2010.

C McCann (Baby Huey)

1B Cody Johnson or KJ

2B JC Holt or Lillibridge

SS Escobar

3B Eric Campbell or KJ

LF Heyward or Hernandez

CF Schafer or Hernandez

RF Frenchy

whaddya think……check your answers on the morrow, my friends.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

November 2, 2007 2:52 AM | Link to this

Wayne , since the mound was lowered after the 1968 season and the modern era of baseball was ushered in , technically speaking , Gibson did it before that. Bob Gibson reeled off 22 consecutive quality starts….. in a row. Santana nearly repeated the feat in 2004 with 21 quality starts in row. So , why has it gone unrecognized ? Like I said , it’s nearly impossible and it’s only been done twice since 1968. Quality starts are appreciated by managers and coaches , but to the casual fan , it goes unrecognized.

By [/\][][][]Berigan[][][][/\]

November 2, 2007 5:11 AM | Link to this

Arkansas Hillbilly,

Jamie Kotsay is a hottie, for sure! IF I was a major leaguer, I’d have a hottie..but, I don’t(even though I am a leftie, with a good curve! ;) ) Instead, it’s time to find a nice Russian mail order bride….one without too much facial hair.

By Random

November 2, 2007 5:21 AM | Link to this

joebrave

I apologized once (8:29 PM), but I don’t mind doing it again. I was wrong — sorry.

Of course, my being wrong doesn’t make you right.

Later.

By ncscoots

November 2, 2007 6:30 AM | Link to this

�the-numbers-say-this-but-my-eyes-say-that� is kind of a silly thing to say, no?

No, for I am not a silly man, LOL. Only saying that minor league stats need context, and projecting minor leaguers is more a question of tools and skills than stats. Now, you say you’ve also seen Blanco play, and perhaps you evaluate him differently than I. That’s fine by me, no sweat.

But, while I’m a big fan of Baseball Prospectus, I’d be shocked to my socks if Blanco were to hit .285 as a rookie.

By Serbok

November 2, 2007 7:01 AM | Link to this

Well Dam~ started readin blog 2 late~ never blogged b4 durin off season~ however~looks as tho thats gonna change:o) to much to um~ speculate~ DOB once again~ you Rock dude!!!! By that I mean BB and the Neil~ Read 1 response from ya~and gotta crash~ however it was very appropriate:o) Sumpin to do (apparently) about someone~ who obviousley has never Experienced Mr Young in concert b4~ I can only say~ Yeah~ tkt prices are very high~gonna see Tull soon 50 bucks for crappy seats:o( But~ hey~ If Neil Ever plays in my neck of the Woods again?!!!!!!!! Promise ya!!!!!! Worth Every Penny!!!!! And I would be there up Front! Best Poet walkin the face of the earth!!! (IMO) What a musician on top of it?????????? Ive seen Young play Harvest~ and Rust never Sleeps/ also~one concert that he really wasnt pushin an album! Talk about Music!!!!!!!!!!!! holey Shyte!!!!!! Last time tho~ he was doin Greendale~! Holey Shyte:o( lol Keep on Rockin in The Free World!!!!!!!!!!!! Impeach the President!!!!!!! Then we have the real President:o( Cheney:o( Surely Neil musta thought if Dumbya was impeached, the Devil~ would follow? LOL

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 7:26 AM | Link to this

James, I think Hernandez is too good, or too good potentially, to include in a multi-player package for Noah Lowrey. I personally asked Frank if either of the two guys they got from Detroit would be involved in other deals this winter, and he said no. That could change, I’m sure, if some blockbuster deal offer came along and some team really insisted on Hernandez, but that’s highly unlikely. And Braves love the kid’s potential….

Someone asked about Hernandez ETA. Wren said he’s a year or two behind Schafter in terms of development, so you can probably project that in terms of ETA, too. Just rough guess — Schafer’s ready a year or two from now, Hernandez in 2-3 seasons. But that’s just a somewhat educated guess….

Gone Baby Gone is a great movie. Saw it last night. Some raw, sad stuff, but a great movie. Casey Affleck and Ed Harris are outstanding, as is the woman who plays the wayward mom whose kid is abducted….

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 7:28 AM | Link to this

JR: I’d say, oh, about zero chance.

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 7:31 AM | Link to this

Ernesto, regarding your 5:30 p.m. post last night: Don’t forget writers.

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 7:34 AM | Link to this

Serbok, good to hear from ya.

“It’s better to burn out ‘cause rust never sleeps

The king is gone but he’s not forgotten.”

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 7:51 AM | Link to this

Kris Benson? Hell yeah…… That would really make for Hotlanta….

By ssiscribe

November 2, 2007 7:53 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens. Hope all is well and everybody is ready for the weekend.

(And if you’re well, send some of that over here … 3/4 of the house is sick, and I’m fighting it off myself, just in time to head out of town for a family getaway south of the Gnat Line this weekend.)

Now, baseball (transition): Good news on the Braves’ Web site for those of us jones-in for some ballclub stuff. FanFest will be Jan. 12-13, three weeks earlier than usual, and it will be at the Georgia World Congress Center instead of Turner Field.

Sure, running the bases with the kiddies on the same field Chipper and the gang play on is cool stuff, but the weather last year was pretty chilly (and two years ago, I think, I remember people talking about how it was rainy and raw). Having it at the GWCC is a good move. Opens up more chances for games and interactive stuff. I went to the NFL Experience there when the Super Bowl was here back in 1994, and I went to the baseball exhibit there when I did the All-Star Game in 2000 (one of the most awesome things I’ve ever attended).

FanFest is a two-day deal, too, Saturday the 12th and Sunday the 13th. Kids 12 and under are free. Adults one-day admission is $12; $18 for a two-day pass. I think children over age 12 are $8 for one day and $12 for two days.

I think this is a great move by the Braves to put this thing inside. The press release says it will allow lot more interactive stuff, more family stuff, etc. Good move, indeed, and helps to bridge the gap between Christmas and the start of spring training.

Tickets on sale now … no, I haven’t bought mine yet, but will soon. And the Thrashers are home at Philips that night against Pittsburgh, so that makes it all the better for me!

Now, Glavine (more transition from the Scribe): Lotta passion on here about Tommy G., and for good reason. But from my perspective — a dude who remembers him shutting down the defending World Champion Dodgers on opening night 1989 at the old stadium, so I’ve seen him all the way through his career — I don’t think you can do much better for a NO. 3 STARTER.

That’s the key words there: NO. 3 STARTER. He’s not a top-of-the-rotation guy anymore (which makes what Smoltz has done with all the major arm problems all the more impressive, that John can be an effective No. 1 at his age). But Glavine would be a solid choice at No. 3. Beyond eating innings, he’s going to give the Braves a good chance to win most every fifth day for the duration of the season.

We saw effectiveness here and there from the back three spots in the rotation last season. Chuck James was really good at times through June. Buddy Carlyle shined in June and July. Lance Cormier had some good starts down the stretch, as did Jo Jo Reyes and Jeff Bennett.

But the Braves need more than Smoltz and Hudson to rely on every fifth day. Glavine will give them that guy in the third spot, and I’m thinking this deal is just a matter of time before it’s done.

Duty calls; gotta go scribin’ tonight up near the big city, then southbound at sunup. Enjoy your day, denizens, and a safe weekend to all.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 7:53 AM | Link to this

Wayne That was my second guess….

By Niekro35

November 2, 2007 8:14 AM | Link to this

Wayne: to answer the quiz, what they have in common is that they’re all dead. Alcohol abuse is probably another.

By chbeyer

November 2, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

This GLAVINE NOSTALGIA is silly. Its not 1995 again. Add 4-5 million to what they would have to pay glavine and the braves could sign a starter that could be with them for years. There is a significant chance that Glavine could experience a major drop off next year due to age. Then what?????

By brian kelley

November 2, 2007 8:24 AM | Link to this

Here is another take on the trade DOB…thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule with your blogs, they are fantastic!Greg(NYC): Jimmy boy, where were you last week? And tell us how well the Braves did in the Renteria trade?

Jim Callis: Sorry about the delay there. I was traveling to Boston for the first two games of the World Series, so I missed the chat. Thanks to J.J. Cooper for pinch-hitting. I like the Renteria trade from the Braves’ end. They had cheaper shortstop options in Yunel Escobar and Brent Lillibridge, and they got a starter for their rotation in Jair Jurrjens and an outfield prospect with a lot of upside in Gorkys Hernandez. The trade makes sense from the Tigers’ end too, as they wanted a shortstop and had a surplus of young pitchers and center fielders. Paul (KC): So who plays CF for the Braves this season? Don’t you think this deal makes it even more likely that they will deal Tex prior to the season and try to restock the system?

Jim Callis: The Braves have two top CF prospects in Jordan Schafer and Gorkys Hernandez, but neither is ready. I think they go for a one-year stop cap and turn it over to Schafer in 2009. I don’t think the Braves are looking to deal Teixeira. I think they’re looking to contend. Lee (Dallas, TX): I’ve heard the possibility of Lillibridge playing CF for the Braves next year, any truth to it? Who does Atlanta go after with the freed up money from Renteria and Andruw leaving?

Jim Callis: He played some outfield in college, but I think making that transition at the major league level after playing only infield in the minors would be tough. Sounds like the Braves could bring back Tom Glavine for a last hurrah, and the extra money could go toward re-signing Teixeira.

Brent (Raleigh): Thoughts on Joey Devine?

Jim Callis: Not a big fan. Middle reliever for me.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008), Crisp had a better AVG and OBP than Andruw had in ‘07, which isn’t saying much, especially considering Crisp played his home games in Fenway. I do agree the Braves will probably look at him but he is not that good a major league hitter. If the Braves get him it will be because the feel he won’t hurt them offensively and because of his outstanding defense. Also, the Braves, for some reason, have had some success with usually weak-hitting outfielders in their late 20s that play good defense and have good speed—Charles Thomas, Dewayne Wise, Charles Thomas, Willie Harris.

By chrisklob

November 2, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

chbeyer, This GLAVINE NOSTALGIA is silly. Its not 1995 again. Add 4-5 million to what they would have to pay glavine and the braves could sign a starter that could be with them for years.

Just EXACTLY who do you have in mind? Have you looked at the list of free agent SP’s? Braves need a mid-rotation guy and those guys don’t exactly grow on trees. Here’s a list of available free agent SP’s. Click here

By Jeff R

November 2, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

If the Braves sign Glavine, management really does need to find another quality arm for the rotation. A rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton and, likely, James may look good on paper, but it involves a big element of “boom or bust.” With pitchers over forty, there is always a good chance of a breakdown or a quick decline in physical ability (Glavine more than Smoltz, but no guarantee with the latter). Hampton has had two operations in two years and hasn’t pitched competively in that span. Could he blow his arm out again? Very possibly. But even if healthy, how long will it take him to find his groove, if he does at all? Hudson and James are good to go, providing James learned from his sophomore year mistakes.

So, three-fifths the rotation may either perform really well, if everything falls into place, or really badly (again, much less likely with Smoltz).

It’s not a rotation that inspires much confidence. I’d rather the team try to land younger arms.

By 3trees

November 2, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

“…this is the story of Johnny Rotten”

Amy Ryan is the lady in Gone Baby Gone, DOB. In addition to yours, its getting very good reviews (even in the New Yorker).

Saw Eliza Gilkyson last night at Eddie’s. She was excellent. She’s a great singer songwriter. She reminds me in turns of Joni, Lucinda and Macy Gray in her delivery. She’s been around about as long as Joni, so she pre-dates the other 2.

Was McCann going to get surgery on his ankle this offseason? I sure hope he gets healthy. Think they’ll sign Francoeur long-term this winter? Sure is nice to have actual baseball speculation in here rather than the personal sniping that was prevalent last month.

By chrisklob

November 2, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

Just noticed on Elias rankings that Andruw is listed as a “B” player. Does anyone recall what that means in the form of compensatory picks when he signs with another club?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

November 2, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

DOB

With the health being such and issue with the potential Braves 2008 pitching staff. Don’t you think its time for the Braves to consider the 6 Man Rotation. Think about. Smoltz says he has to watch his usage. Hudson seemed to wear down at the end (slender frame in the summer heat). Chuck James developed a dead arm. Glavine is no spring chicken anymore and I think his arm was showing its age at the EOY. Then if you add Hampton to the mix who knows how much he could give every 5th day. I just think for this team instead of carying 7 relievers they should think about 6 starters. Has anyone ever successfully tried it and do you think Bobby Cox would consider it?

By Tim

November 2, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Great blog, DOB. I’m hoping Junior could come to the Braves but thanks for bringing back to reality about him in CF.

I saw the Shout Out Louds at the Cat’s Cradle (Carrboro, NC) Tuesday night. A fantastic show with plenty of energy. The Rosebuds jumped up on stage to close the second set with them. Their opening band was Johnossi, also from Stockholm. Highly recommended.

By Clueless Joe

November 2, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

What are the chances the Braves trade Chuck James and a prospect for another SP? I only ask because Chuck James didn’t get it done last year. He rarely made it past the 6th inning and I have never heard anyone say he has great stuff.

By Curious

November 2, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Sure is nice to have actual baseball speculation in here rather than the personal sniping that was prevalent last month.

Your and idiot.

: )

By Pulpwood Smith

November 2, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

DOB-

Be sure to head to Robert’s Western World when you’re in Nashville. Best honky tonk in the city. The house band, Brazilbilly, is excellent. Real old timey country music, plus great fried bologna sandwiches.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

How’s this for an intriguing possibility: Matt Clement?

His career K/9 rate is 7.75, BB/9 is 1.87 and HR/9 is 0.92.

If he’ll take a minor league deal or something under $1 million plus incentives, it would be a risk worth taking, in my opinion.

Only problem is a another team with more disposable income also sees his impressive numbers (when healthy) and they can offer him a better deal than the Braves would be willing to offer.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Clueless Joe, cool name. What team would give up a pitcher that is significantly better than Chuck James? Guess it depends on the prospects. And for all the talk about James, he’s actually not a bad pitcher. He’s not going to contend for the Cy Young but he’s a guy you can count on as your fourth-best starter on a decent staff, or third-best in a good season for him.

By Jeff R

November 2, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

TrueBlueBravesFan makes good points about Hudson’s late fade and James “dead arm.”

Better the Braves keep trying to cherry pick young pitching talent where they can find it. Before jumping at Glavine, Wren and Company need to look over the market carefully. $8-$10 million is a lot to commit to a guy who really fizzled when the Mets needed him most.

By WTF

November 2, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

After reading TM’s article yesterday, good to know someone at AJC sports has a clue. I mean, what is he thinking? Get Ken Griffey Jr.? Someone needs to limit TM on what he can write about.

By richbrave

November 2, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

JEFF R

Yes. Younger arms-or in this case one-Johan Santana. Start with strength and work down. Hudson two. Smoltz three. —-four.—-five.Slash and burn. Money and prospects. Do it.

By Random

November 2, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Hey, joebrave, where you goin with that gun in your hand?

I rayher doubt You even know who Ralph Garr is,Randomand until you can tell me all about Charlie Spikes,Mike Lum,Brian Asselstine,Jeff Burroughs,Preston Hannah,and the likes

Of course I remember speedster Ralph Garr — just about our only base-stealing threat of the early 70s (CF Rowland Office pretty much had single digit steal totals each year); Hawaiian Mike Lum with his sweet, sweet swing — didn’t he write a book about hitting? (was he the one who likened swinging a bat to swinging a golf club, or was that someone else?). I remember Jeff Burroughs and Gary Matthews, our black and blond long-ball OFs; Preston Hannah is a blast from the past, but I don’t recall Charlie Spikes.

You left out Beeg Boy Rico Carty, who always carried his wallet while playing; our “keystone” combo of Darrell Chaney and Rod Gilbreath; Sherriff Pat Jarvis, the Bulldog; hotdog Willie Montanez; the Cat, Felix Millan; Dusty Baker, Jerry Royster and Junior Moore; Chris Chambliss and Claudell Washington; Barry Bonnel and Dale Murphy, the Mormon brothers; Eggs Benedict, Geno, and the Mad Hungarian.

Do you remember the “Squire of Statesboro”?

I was at Bob Horner’s first game — my memory tells me he hit three HRs and a long sac fly — my memory could be wrong. I was at the game where Glenn Hubbard in his first start was the pivot on three double plays and a triple play. Problem is, the 70s, 80s and to some extent the 90s all run together for me in a melange of memories — begging your pardon in advance for the inevitable misrememberings.

I�ve been around this Team a whole helluva lot longer than most people here Even our Gracious Host DOB!!!

Meager claim, that, since our esteemed, inestimable and often misunderestimated host only recently immigrated from FL (but not without papers — okay Chertoff, so back off, you hear?).

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Jeff R, problem is teams aren’t going to give up talented young pitching for nothing. Who do you suggest trading to get some team’s top pitching prospect(s)? Unless the Braves are willing to give up some great young players, it ain’t going to happen.

Do you think there are better pitchers than Hudson and even James and possibly Glavine out there that could be had at a minimal price (both in terms of players the Braves would have to give up and salary)? If you think that, you are mistaken.

By Clueless Joe

November 2, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

I was thinking sending James and a prospect to Oakland for Blanton would be a sweet deal. I watched Chuck pitch a lot of games last year and it doesn’t seem like he has a lot of upside.

He really only has 2 pitches he can throw for strikes and neither are dominating. He is a fly ball out pitcher and too often those fly balls fly out of the park. I also don’t think his short outings are a result of fatigue I think they have more to do with the hitters being able to adjust to his pitching - a problem he never seemed to fix last year.

He could turn out to be a solid pitcher (what do I know I am just a casual fan) but I think that what you see is what you get with Chuck James and for the Braves to seriously contend they need to find a better option.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

November 2, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

I didn’t mean to imply that I didn’t want our current pitchers. I just don’t want us riding the tired arms into the dirt. I think if the team took an approach of 1 every 6 instead of 1 every 5 it might help keep the old and slender armed, with some life in it up till the end of the season. What good is it getting innings out of someone like Smoltz or Glavine if the tank is empty by the end of the year.

By bwash21

November 2, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

Next years lineup doesn’t look bad with CoCo in there.

Crisp Escobar Chipper Tex Franceour McCann Diaz KJohnson

If we have a starting rotation of: Smoltz Hudson Glavine and 2 of 3 of: Hampton, James, JJ, Carlyle, Reyes, Acosta, Bennett. That’s a solid team and way below 80M in salary allowing to sign Tex now.

By Alex

November 2, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

so does Andruw Jones getting a “B” rating from Elias change the stance on offering him arbitration? I don’t think anyone said anything official, but I do recall reading that it wasn’t likely…too much of a chance he’d take it. However, I can see the “B” designation being a good thing. Say the Braves do offer and he still signs somewhere else…we get a sandwich pick….and that can mean a lot (hello Salty, etc.) and if Andruw does say yes to arbitration, the Braves have a very nice card to play in an arbitration hearing, its hard to argue that the Elias rankings are unfair or biased and they clearly state that Andruw is not a top tier player (I disagree) but in a hearing facts are worth a lot more than opinion…so it might not cost the Braves that much to have him accept arbitration for 1 year…at least not the way Maddux did. Thoughts?

Also, DOB, I share your sentiment on “country” artists under 30…but there is another one to add to your list…Ryan Bingham, out of Texas by way of New Mexico. The kid is the real deal…his new album “Mescalito” is a gem and it was produced by Marc Ford (ex Black Crowes/Ben Harper/Federale) and he can’t stop talking about the kid…he reminds me of Townes Van Zant…but not as sad…he is playing tonight at Smith’s…check it out if you get the chance

By TrueBlueBravesFan

November 2, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Maybe Tommy could teach Chuckie the Circle Change.

After all if he’s leaving the game after next year he should pass the baton to someone shouldn’t he?

Chuckie definately needs to find another moving pitch to be successful.

By bwash21

November 2, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

One more thing about Crisp. He’s had success in the past. There was another guy that didn’t pan out too well in Boston that worked out pretty well in Atlanta. No one is going to fill Andruw’s shoes but Coco would look good putting up .290avg, 10 HR, 55 RBI’s and scoring 100+ runs while stealing 20 bases. Would you take that for 5 million? Without a doubt.

By chrisklob

November 2, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Alex, regarding Andruw being offered arbitration, I believe that there is a rule stating that if a player goes to arbitration, he won’t get less than 90% of his salary of the previous year. In other words, he made $13.5m last year, so the worst case scenario for him would be that he would get $12.15m next year. IMO, the Braves are NOT going to take that chance.

I’m not sure about all the exact details of the above, but I’m sure someone will correct me.

By eric the elder

November 2, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

The Rockies proved that great defense does not, by itself, win a World Series. Not having Lew’s stats expertise, I still have a hunch that an average-to-good center fielder would make 98& of the catches that Andruw did.

Nor is good pitching the only answer. Cleveland had two 19-game winners, Sabathia and Carmona, who stunk up the place in the ALCS.

The secret is balance - - maybe two outstanding starters, a lights-out closer, and several rakers - - with the rest of the team providing steady, if not great, reliability.

Of all the interesting suggestions and speculations I’m hearing, I would judge all against that model.

By Andruw Advocate

November 2, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien, what’s the latest on Aybar? Will he be the 2008 Chris Woodward?

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Clueless Joe, compare what James has done at a young age to what someone like Paul Byrd did early in his career. And look what Byrd became—a solid fourth starter on some very good teams. I wouldn’t trade James unless maybe they got someone like Blanton. But they would have to trade James and a couple of great to solid prospects for Blanton, at least one that is a good bet to become close to All-Star caliber in the majors, I think…I don’t know if he’s worth that.

By h_charles

November 2, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

DOB — What are your thoughts on the Renteria trade? I like the philosophy — trade a surpluss SS for a pitcher and future CF.

However, I haven’t heard ANYONE at the AJC comment on whether we got enough for Rent?

Several outside sources say no. Could we have gotten an established young #2 for Edgar? The Braves track record in developing prospects into frontline starters has been awful, so did we get another Davies or another Jason Schmidt?

Also, since you poo-pooed all of the typical CF choices, who do you think the Braves will target outside the organization? I think it is clear we have nobody ready to fill Andruw’s big shoes internally. That immense pressure is going under the radar right now.

Who can be that stopgap?

Neil YOung is still the man (as long as you don’t have to look at him). He was not handsome when young, and now he is downright scary looking.

No Halloween mask needed there.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

eric the elder, you are correct. Model should be trying to build a team that can score more runs and allow fewer than most teams in the league, plus some strikeout pitchers, good defense and a couple of really good relievers to use in high leverage situations. Of course it’s easy to say that should be the model and very hard to build that kind of team. Check out the book “Mind Game: How the Boston Red Sox Got Smart, Won a World Series, and Created a New Blueprint for Winning.”

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Latest on Aybar is that, as of two days ago, he was 6-for-10 with two doubles in his first three games for Licey in the Dominican Winter League. I haven’t checked in the past two days…

I have no idea what you mean by, will he be the 2008 Chris Woodward. Will he be an over-the-hill mediocre fielder with virtually no remaining offensive skills? I don’t think so.

By AdirondackDave

November 2, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Here’s irony for you. I turn 70 today but it’s my computer that dies! Borrowing the wife’s when it’s available. I hope the pitching re-build starts with Glavine but I have this nagging feeling that he and the brass are going to have problems getting together again.

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Alex, you’re right on Ryan Bingham. Love that album “Mescalito.” He’s on the Lost Highway label, and has a big backer in Joe Ely, who may have discovered him (I’m not clear on that, but seem to recall hearing something like that).

He’s the real deal, absolutely. Has a lot of Hank III in him, and a lot of Steve Earle. And that’s a helluva combo.

I don’t see him as straight country, which is what I was talking about, those young pop-country artists I can’t stand.

Didn’t know he was going to be at Smith’s tonight. That blows, because I’m about to get on a plane to go to Kansas City for the KU-Nebraska game. At the airport now.

Wish you hadn’t told me I’m gonna miss Bingham. I definitely would’ve gone to that show.

By PopeVanIII

November 2, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Alex,

The B designation for Andruw makes it much less likely that the Braves would offer arbitration.

Had he been designated as Type A, at least the potential reward would be a very high draft choice. As a Type B, that potential reward is drastically decreased to the point where it’s definitely not worth the risk of him accepting arbitration.

By eric the elder

November 2, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I referred to Lew’s stats expertise, but I think I meant yours. Sorry to short change you. Both of you are great posters.

I agree that creating a reality that matches the model is hard to do because of all the variables, such as budget, injuries, chemistry, et al. Still, having a solid model is better than flailing around and hoping for the best.

Reading this blog frankly does not suggest a model. It’s “we have to focus on pitching,” “we have to have a new center fielder as defensively good as Andruw is,” “we have to resign Tex,” etc. What I’m not seeing is a big picture. I suppose that falls to Wren and his boys.

I suggest again that the opening day roster will not begin to resemble what we might imagine now.

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 2, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

DOB, what has happened with gregor blanco that he isn’t being mentioned as a possibility for CF?

also, in terms of music, the new ween album “la cucaracha” is a great ween album. probably not for a listener new to ween, though.

By DAP

November 2, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

clueless joe he has great stuff…does that change your mind? :-)

james does have an outstanding changeup, which is really the only reason he is a s good as he is. and, i would argue, he really not that bad. he definetly has some issues to work our, but i hope the brave dont trade him or reyes. these are guys i cant wait to see develop.

By beachcomber

November 2, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

DOB - Thanks for whetting all our hot stove appetites. As for Glavine, based on a conversation I had a few weeks ago with someone with the Braves, I feel much more confident than I did during the last two “dances.”

Your numbers on Edgar confirm that we are going to miss him more than any of us imagine.

Bit of irony - I flipped over my Braves calendar yesterday from Edgar’s picture and there was another ex-Brave - Kyle Davies. Being the master of understatement, I don’t think we’ll miss him as much.

Finally good point on Marte. This probably balances the Barker trade from another regime.

By chrisklob

November 2, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Eric, you’re not going to get a “consensus” model on a blog like this. Too many people with different ideas, motivations, knowledge, etc. to get ONE model. But that’s what makes it fun. Everyone has a little different point of view (sometimes VERY different). We discuss the good ones and laugh at the really stupid ones!

It’s a good thing that this blog is not acting as GM for the Braves. We’d have no prospects left and about a $200m payroll if some of the denizens had their way!

By Random

November 2, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

joebrave (Nov 1, 10:46 PM) the same Mr.Asselstine,was traded to the Blue Jays,along with an obscure pitcher,for Doyle Alexander�s first go around with Atlanta,yes the same Doyle Alexander that brought John Smoltz to the Braves�

Sorry, Joe, it was Adrian Devine that was traded to the Rangers for Doyle Alexander, not Brian Asselstine. Which is part of a funny story itself:

In Dec 76, Braves send Devine (and 3 or 4 other players) to Rangers for Jeff Burroughs and cash; In Dec 77, Rangers send Devine (and Tommy Boggs) to Braves for Willie Montanez (not that simple — trade also involved Mets and Pirates); In Dec 79, Braves send Devine to Rangers for Doyle Alexander. (The Rangers finally released him in 81.)

Anyway, a year later (80) we traded Alexander to the Giants and he went from there to the Yankees and then to the Blue Jays. We picked him up again as a free agent in spring 87 and THEN traded him to the Tigers for Smoltz.

PS: Brian Asselstine spent his entire ML career with the Braves.

By chrisklob

November 2, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

For all you Chuck James haters, here’s an interesting tidbit for you:

In the recently released Elias rankings, Chuckie is ranked #20 among SP’s, ahead of Ian Snell, Matt Cain, and Noah Lowry (all names that have been discussed here as potential trade targets) in a field of 105 NL SP’s.

I have not been able to find how these scores are calculated. If someone (Shaun?) knows please post it. But obviously the kid ain’t all THAT bad if he can draw a ranking like that.

Oh, and he can replace all the windows in your house in no time flat!

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Here’s an interesting piece on the best fielders of 2007. You may recognize the man selected as the best centerfielder.

By Wayne in Utah

November 2, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Coach or any stat geek (stated fondly, of course): Stopped in for a quicky on the blog. Where can one go to see quality starts as a stat. Most of the places I go do not include this stat. (I normally check the mlb.com site for each team, and CBSSportsline.com).

Thanks in advance.

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

will he be the 2008 Chris Woodward. Will he be an over-the-hill mediocre fielder with virtually no remaining offensive skills

HA! That was good.

Aybar is a solid player. If he’s in good enough shape he’ll make that bench exceptionally deep. And after a year of suspension, his arbitration clock should have stopped ticking so we still have him under control for pretty much the same amount of time. Too bad he wasn’t available last season though. He would have been much much better than Woodward. But he’s good. Perhaps the best Aybar on the field these days, when he’s on the field.

By Bryan (Go KU)

November 2, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Hey David, What about trying to acquire Jason Jennings… It wouldn’t take more than a low level prospect to get him right?

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, I’m not sure how Elias does those rankings. I know Baseball Prospectus had Chuck James as the 66th best pitcher in baseball in 2007 (this includes every pitcher from both leagues, starters and relievers).

For a frame of reference, here are some pitcher near him in the rankings:

Jered Weaver
Tom Glavine
Noah Lowry

By AdirondackDave

November 2, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

CHRISKLOB — Can you tell me where I can see those Elias rankings? Thanks.

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Wayne: The BaseballCube.com, ESPN.com, Baseball-Reference.com are pretty good starts. The cube has a robust list of minor league, college and major league stats. Reference has some issues with it’s splits but the season tally’s are pretty solid. ESPN is MLB certified stats. It contains more splits and break downs than MLB.com does.

By Wayne in Utah

November 2, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

What constitutes a quality start? Isn’t it 6 or more innings, with 3 or less earned runs??? That seems to strike a chord with me.

As for Chuckie being #20 on the Elias rating, I suspect that QS is not considered. I don’t think Chuckie pitched 6 or more innings at too high of a frequency.

That is really the biggest rub on Chuck. I suspect some of that comes back to his limited pitch selection. Would this mean he would be a decent long reliever??? Other factors come into that. Mental makeup, and ability to get ready to pitch on very short notice.

I personally like Chuck. At his age, if he doesn’t have a 3rd pitch, then I am not sure if he ever will. Heck, I never learned to throw a curve, try as I may. I had to rely on my heater in the backyard games!!!

If he goes into window work full-time, I hope he stays away from Home Depot, as I don’t like their NASCAR rep!

:-)

By richbrave

November 2, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

BROTHER DAVE:

I’ve got something for all Glavine lovers. A little sonnet(#73) for you cooked up by the Bard himself for Tommy G.’s current position. Used a few modern words, and I’ve titled it:

    GLAVINE'S LAMENT

That time of year you see in me When yellow leaves, or none or few do hang upon those boughs which shake against the cold. Bare ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang. In me you see the twilight of day as after sunset fades in the west. Which by and by black night takes away. Death’s second self that seals up all in rest. In me you see the glowing of a fire that lies on the bed of my youth. As the death bed wherein it must expire. Consumed with that which it was nourished by. This you see-which makes your love more strong. To love that well which you must leave ‘ere long.

Since you ruminate about all manner of things( county music, etc.) thought a little classical literature might be in order. LATER!!

By Wayne in Utah

November 2, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

How ‘bout the Tigers bad luck with Zumaya!!

By Random

November 2, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the history, donkus maximus (11:31 PM ). Brings back a lot of memories.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, espn.com’s stat page.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, that didn’t turn out right. Here’s the link to the page that ranks Chuck James.

Weaver is 64th. James is 66th. Glavine in 68th.

By Braveheart

November 2, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

i wonder who is gonna be the rotation surprise next season. in 2007, we had buddy. in 2006, chuck james. 2005, jorge sosa. 2004, jaret wright. 2003, horam. 2002, damian moss. 2001, john burkett. who can it be now? just thought i would throw some men at work lyrics in there to tick off DOB.

unfortunately, last season we needed 2.5 surprises because Smoltz, Hudson, and James were the only 2.5 sure things we had in the rotation. we only got one surprise in buddy. hopefully next season we will only need a half of a surprise or only one surprise at most.

By Patrick

November 2, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What about Corey Patterson in center???

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Patrick, Patterson’s career averages: .258/.298/.414. That’s all that needs to be said.

By Braveheart

November 2, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

richbrave,

I don’t think there are many Glavine “lovers” around. Those of us who wish to see him back just see that it makes too much sense from a production standpoint and from a bang for the buck standpoint. To be honest, I have never liked Glavine and it has nothing to do with him being a union man at all. And it has nothing to do with him going for more money. In fact, I think Glavine gets far too much grief for that stuff. I just never liked the guy. Never enjoyed his personality. He does not excite me whatsoever. But from a pure baseball standpoint, I think Glavine makes sense.

At the very worst next season, he will have a 5.00 ERA for a team that scores 5 runs a game and this will make the Braves a slightly better than .500 team when he pitches. Buddy and Kyle both proved that this year. When you combine Kyle (4/1 -6/1) and Davies (6-1 - end), the Braves were 17-13 this season with an ERA in the low 5s.

The way I see it, Glavine bumps Chuck down to fifth next season. Jurjenns has an ERA from 4.50 to 5.00. The Braves score 5 runs a game again and go a combined 40-26 with Smoltz and Hudson starting, 17-13 again with Chuck, 16-16 with Air Jurjenn, and 18-16 with Glavine. That makes the Braves 91-71 right there in contention for the wild card and the division.

I don’t think that rotation makes them a World Series winner but you never know. The Rockies got hot at the right time. Just get into the dance. The worst that will happen is yet another broken heart. Braves fans have already suffered 13 of those and most probably would rather suffer an unlucky 13 broken hearts than miss the playoffs altogether for 2 straight seasons again. Or maybe that’s just me.

By Overlord

November 2, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

I hope all those smart people thinking cameron was a good choice are happy now

I do think bringing Griffey to ATL is a good move, he was healthy last year, he could repeat that.

I cant understand how could bringing Glavine is a good move and bringing griffey is not.

By eric the elder

November 2, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, lol and I agree completely!

By Tim

November 2, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Escobar SS Johnson 2B Jones 3B Texeira 1B McCann C Francoeur RF Diaz LF Lillibridge CF

thats a lineup ladies and gentlemen!!!

By Lew

November 2, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Eric-You’re right-Shaun is the stat guy. I just use Baseball Reference.Com for what ever stats I come up with.

BWash-I read your post on Crisp with interest. You mentioned him hitting .290 (hasn’t done that since 05-25 points lower the last two years-in a hitter’s park), 10HR (6 and 8 last two years-again in a hitter’s park), 55 RBI (I’ll give you that one) 100 Runs (never done it before-86 is his max-three years ago) and 20SB (OK, I’ll give you that, too). Now most of what you project for him are things he’s either never done his entire career or things he hasn’t done in three years. Just what leads you to believe that he will excel here when he has either down turned or never posted those numbers before? Because Edgar did better when moving from Boston? That, my friend is a mighty flimsy rationale, in my opinion. I just don’t see Cereal Dude posting those figures-no matter where he plays. He would be a more than adequate CF, defensively, but he is no where near the offensive player you see him as.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Those rankings are quite interesting (though certainly not surprising to me). And yet so many here are ready to throw Chuck James under the bus and wish fervently to acquire Glavine and/or Lowrey.

By Random

November 2, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah

From Wikipedia: In baseball statistics, a quality start is awarded to a starting pitcher who completes at least six innings and permits no more than three earned runs.

The quality start was developed by sportswriter John Lowe in 1985 while writing for the Philadelphia Inquirer. The statistic is preferred by sabermetricians to that of winning percentage insofar as it acts independent of such factors beyond a pitcher’s control such as fielding errors, blown saves, and poor run support. ESPN.com terms a loss suffered by a pitcher in a quality start as a tough loss and a win earned by a pitcher in a non-quality start a cheap win.

Try this: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?split=0&league=nl&season=2007&seasonType=2&sort=qualityStarts&type=pitch2&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=all

By Lew

November 2, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

RichBrave-Come up with another verse on your own and even though I’m busy as all get out, you’ll win a Wurlitzer. How’s that for pre-ordained?

By DAP

November 2, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

overlord

I cant understand how could bringing Glavine is a good move and bringing griffey is not.

because glavine has never been on the DL one time in his 20+ years career.

griffey…well he has been on the DL a little bit.

plus, glavine is a pitcher, and we want him to pitch. griffey, while he used to be a CF, is now a RF(i just dont think he can play center anymore and still keep from getting hurt). we have a RF, and we need a CF.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Eric and Lew, I prefer rationalist over “stat guy.”

By XBOX Freakazoid

November 2, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

If you don’t want Glavine, this is what you do: Sign Barry Bonds. Trade for Ken Griffey, Jr. Trade for Coco Crisp and sign Corey Patterson to pinch run in late innings for Bonds and Griffey, fill in when Bonds and Griffey are injured, and be defensive replacements for Bonds and Griffey. That way we will have bad pitching and a horrendous defensive outfield but heck we just might score 1000 runs and win 100 games.

Lineup: 1. Bonds, LF (great OBP); 2. KJ, 2B; 3. Chipper, 3B; 4. Tex, 1B; 5. Griffey, CF; 6. Frenchy, RF; 7. McCann, C; 8. Yunel, SS.

On the bench, Crisp, Patterson, Aybar, Lillibridge, and Pena.

Effin awesome team. Los Bravos win the World Series with that team. Come on, man, tell me it ain’t true? Trying telling me that. Go ahead. Try.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Overlord, Griffey played rightfield last year. Also, there are some reasonable people who claim Griffey was slightly overrated as a fielder in his prime (he was very good but not great). If that is true (and I trust that it is at least to a certain extent) Griffey is probably well below average in center at this point in his life.

By Kentavo

November 2, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

I just looked up Corey Patterson stats and he seems like a decent option for a 1-or-2 year stopgap. He’s still young at 28, is from The ATL and had 37 steals. His lifetime .250 (or so) batting average isn’t great, but it’s better than .220. He doesn’t have tons of pop, but…. He got $4 mil from Baltimore last year, which is way too high for a guy who hasn’t done much, but if he could be had for around $1 mil, I’d say go for it.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

Shaun-How should I put this to avoid you taking umbrage? Dude-There’s much that you say that nowhere approaches rationality-stats or no.

By 22oz

November 2, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Interesting article on SI.com: Bill James’ top 50 young players in baseball. Two Braves made the list, and its not who you think. Francouer is #26, and Kelly, not McCann, made the list at #49. Ok, so maybe one was who you think.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Lew, those rankings are based on VORP. That should change your mind about them. Just kidding.

I’m actually not opposed to Glavine. James was the third-best starter for the Braves and they only finished 5 games out and had the best run differential in the division. Another Chuck James type wouldn’t hurt and I think Glavine is capable of more innings.

The ideal would be to bring in a cheaper guy but I don’t know if there is one out there. Sometimes you have to overspend in spots you need to fill, especially when it comes to pitching.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

XBox-Maybe if Bonds attitude didn’t cause the clubhouse to blow up and Griffey actually played center field anymore. Of course you would have platoons in the entire outfield, the average age of the team would rise by ten years and we would have more DL time than any other team in baseball-even if the Yankees do keep all those kiddie pitchers for Girardi to destroy.

By XBOX Freakazoid

November 2, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Arod is a fraud. $25 million for what? Chipper makes half of that and is as good as Arod. Chipper has a higher lifetime batting average and a higher OBP. His SLG is not far behind. Chipper’s OPS+ is 143 for his career. Arod’s is 147. This makes Arod arguably 4 percent better than Chipper in terms of adjusted OPS?!?!?! But he makes twice as much?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?!? AFRAUD!!!!!! Some sorry a@@ team will pay afraud $30 million and be really sorry for it. Effin stat compiler and moneywhore. I’ll root for the golden boy Chipper down at the double dime anyday over that immoral bum afraud. One would think Arod would walk all the time because people are so afraid of him but he only averages 78 walks per 162. pitchers ain’t afraid of afraud. if only baseball teams were as smart as me. i could show them what i do on an xbox.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Well-Actually two thirds of the poutfield-unless Francouer was exhausted from covering all of the ground that the two outfielders with chronic leg problems couldn’t handle.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Kentavo, with all due respect, check the stats again on Patterson. His career best OBP is .329. His career OBP is .298.

OBP isn’t everything but when 147 hitters who qualified for the batting title make outs less frequently than a player (as was the case with Patterson in 2007), that’s a pretty good indication he shouldn’t be given a regular job on a contending team.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I agree about James and Glavine. My point was the irony of those wanting to ditch Chuckie and pick up either Glavine or Lowrey. I’ve always contended that if Chuck pitched in the #4 slot (where he would have been if not for the injuries) and we had another clone of him in the #5 slot, we would have been in the playoffs. I fail to understand why so many are so down on a pitcher who has won 23 games in his first year and a half in the bigs-for a team that finished under .500 and barely over .500 in those seasons.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Jayson Stark wrote this about an hour ago:

There is no chance - zero - that Teixeira is going to be amenable to an extension. He’s a Scott Boras client who has been positioned to cash in next winter. So don’t listen to any talk that his Georgia roots make it easier to keep him or anything like that. He’s a one-year player for this team. Freeing up money in the Renteria deal enables the Braves to sign a guy like Tom Glavine. But it’s not as if Renteria was making $20 million. And Teixeira eats up Andruw Jones’ money, so they won’t have a lot of leeway there, either. They obviously want to address center field and pitching. Those are the priorities.

By bravesfan

November 2, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Comments from Jayson Stark: Brian, Lexington, KY: Jayson, With the Braves dumping payroll, is this a move more to save money and bring up the young guys from the minors or are they looking at trying to extend Texiera’s deal and pick up some free agents here soon and if they are looking at free agents, who are some likely guys to be heading to Atlanta?

Jayson Stark:8 (1:05 PM ET ) There is no chance - zero - that Teixeira is going to be amenable to an extension. He’s a Scott Boras client who has been positioned to cash in next winter. So don’t listen to any talk that his Georgia roots make it easier to keep him or anything like that. He’s a one-year player for this team. Freeing up money in the Renteria deal enables the Braves to sign a guy like Tom Glavine. But it’s not as if Renteria was making $20 million. And Teixeira eats up Andruw Jones’ money, so they won’t have a lot of leeway there, either. They obviously want to address center field and pitching. Those are the priorities.

By Steve-o

November 2, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

How about Kenny Lofton playing CF along with a young minor league player, or trade for CoCo.

By Braveheart

November 2, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

The ideal would be to bring in a cheaper guy but I don�t know if there is one out there. Sometimes you have to overspend in spots you need to fill, especially when it comes to pitching.

But isn’t Glavine about as cheap as any other so called cheap pitcher? Glavine at $10 mil can almost be considered as much of a bargain as a $5 mil pitcher in the Atlanta market.

With the revenues he will generate and the gains they make in marketing, they should make up in revenue at least the extra $5 mil or so they are paying Glavine, right?

Another no name but good pitcher will not bring people to the gate, television, concession stands, radio, parking lots or make them buy braves gear or read about them in the paper or on the internet.

Just look at 2004. The Braves won 96 games and had 6 quality pitchers on their starting rotation. But attendance dropped down to 28,000. Put Smoltz and Hudson in the rotation the next year and call up Frenchy and attendance has jumped quite a bit the last few years despite the results not being anywhere near as good as 2004.

Adding Glavine can likely have the same result for the Braves as calling up Frenchy and adding Smoltz and Hudson to the rotation did in 2005.

You can’t just look at cold hard numbers and say this player is making too much compared to this guy. Mike Vick was overpaid for his production on the field but underpaid for his production off the field in revenue for the team.

Just look at this blog. If DOB puts Glavine’s name in the headline or talks mostly about Glavine, the number of posts and page hits and the amount of passion both ways and in the middle skyrockets.

This imaginary $5 mil pitcher will never do that on the blog or in revenue for the Braves.

Glavine at $10 mil might end up being cheaper than the pitcher at $5 mil. And he might also be more consistent, proven, reliable, and productive. There is less risk and reward with Glavine as opposed to a younger pitcher but you are almost guaranteed a sure thing as opposed to younger pitchers which tend to be unreliable - especially if they are available for $5 million.

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

A year ago McCann rated very, very high after what may have been a fluke year.
—Bill James.

Fluke year. I’m not jumping on James or McCann, but I’ve been wondering this myself. I’m a McCann fan, though I’d never dress as a can. But this past year was descidedly less impressive than his break out year in 2006. Going by press clippings and interviews the one major difference I noticed was in 2006 McCann kept saying he was working on his defense. That he just wanted to focus on his defense. I didn’t hear that so much this past season. 2006 he seemed a better defender than 2007. He was noticably better at the plate in 2006 than in 2007. Perhaps he should continue with his “focus on defense” verbage. Maybe that will keep his mind off the hitting just enough to where he hits again. And, if he could manage to go one season without an injury or spur of some sort he’d probably kick @ss again. Maybe then we’d all look at 2007 as the fluke year. Or perhaps Heaps works in cycles.

Whatever the case I’d love for him to get that sporty beard back and start swinging the lumber and defending the plate as well as he did in 2006.

Griffey was slightly overrated as a fielder in his prime (he was very good but not great)
Where do these words go in rankings? Should the Braves, or any team, shy away from a hall of fame player because he was merely “very good” and not “great”? How does “solid” work into the picture. Perhaps Griffey is just “solid” now instead of “good”, “very good”, “great”, or “very great”. Is there an “other-worldly”? How high do these verbal rankings go? Can it get to “out of this universe” level? Is that the top? And the bottom. I mean, “putrid” could come in. How far below “solid” or “very good” is “stinks up the joint”?

It’s all so complicated.

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

This Teixeira business bums me out. He’s as sure as gone after next season and we have no 1B option available to replace him. This is why I suggested trading him, but whatever.

The good news is, unlike AJ, Teixeira seems capable of having a monster walk year, so we will benefit from that. He’ll probably take some Boras flax seed oil and put up a .450 AVG, 85 HR, and 200 RBIs.

By itsouttahere

November 2, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Too many fans in here dreamin’ about the Glavine of old. The Muts don’t want him back people!!

Let the kids have a go of it. Certainly between Hampton, Jurrjens, Reyes, Cormier, Bennett, Lerew, Carlyle > there’s enuf wins in there for all of us.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see Hampton give back some of his salary and actually win some games for us???

You gotta luv a pen with Soriano, Gonzalez, Dotel, Moylan, Mahay, & Devine!! Spring Training won’t be here soon enuf!!

Sign Dotel, and don’t lose Mahay. Let go of dead weights Orr, Woodward, Thorman..guys who gave us next-to-nothin’. Aybar will likely surprise us!!

Mazzone was overrated- did nothing for the O’s. Heck, might as well bring Niekro out of retirement…Let someone else suffer with Glavine!! Giving Glavine 6-12 million would be nuts!!!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 2, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Steve-O I like the idea of acquiring Lofton. I think he in a platoon with Lillibridge would be the ideal move. I know Lofton can be problematic and a bit ecentric but he can still ball at 40 years old and is a great ignitor for an offense. Just ask the Indians. Where would they have been in the postseason without him? Unfortunately, so many on here are dead set against him because his first tour in Atlanta was so rocky. I think that had more to do with his shock and displeasure with having to leave Cleveland. And that was freaking 10 YEARS AGO!

Hopefully, Wren is giving it some consideration.

By Novice Ned

November 2, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

What does Andruw leaving this fall have to do with Tex next fall? Won’t we be using Hampton’s salary slot (at least) to make an offer for Tex? Even if we look sign an extension with Tex tomorrow, wouldn’t the new salary kick in the following season? In other words, what is Jason Stark talking about?

And why are we considering a plan that has 60% of our starters having an above average chance of breaking down during the season? If you think Glavine & Smoltz (I’m sure no one will question Hampton’s lack of durability) are not any more risky to break down than a 30 year-old pitcher, then ask Fran Wren what the insurance premiums are for Smoltz/Glavine vs. someone Hudson’s age. Signing Glavine sounds like a great idea for plan C. I just can’t see how that is plan A.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Bravesfan-That’s assuming that they traded Edgar to dump salary. Could it possibly have been because a. It was the most propitious time to trade him? b. That he was worth more after what looks like a career year? c. That they got incredible prospects in return? d. They had a player they felt needed full time experience at Edgar’s position.

I fail to see why no one believes it when the team President comes out publically and in so many words, says that he and the owners are not concerned with their upper salary level-and in fact have not set one. He has also said in public that the Braves have the desire to spend whatever is necessary to field the team they think will return us to the top of the divison and beyond, but will not spend stupidly just to spend (like the Mets). I’m going to take the man at his word until he and Liberty Media prove they don’t deserve the trust. The Braves, Schuerholz and Bobby Cox have all said they desire to sign Tex long term and will attempt to do so. Tex has come out and said he’s happy with the Braves. Who are you going to believe? The Braves or some sports writer who doesn’t even cover the Braves? Does Stark even say what he bases this on, other than his own idle speculation. Maybe it’s time people realize that not all Boras clients play for the Yankees, Red Sox or Angels.

By Jeff R

November 2, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I’m not giving up on James. I think he’s a good young pitcher who needs to build his stamina and learn from his mistakes. Hudson faded, but much later in the season than 2006. But, overall, he had a solid 2007. I think Wren swung a darn good deal with Detroit that brought a fine pitching prospect over to the Braves who may have a shot at the rotation in 2008. Smoltz, despite his age, is likely to perfom well in 2008. Hampton is a wild card. You have to figure that either Reyes or Jurrjens may fill the 4 or 5 spots in the rotation, leaving one spot open, presumably, a spot management and many fans want filled by Glavine. My sense is that management needs to look a little more closely at swinging a deal for a solid young arm to fill that slot over signing Glavine. Who that would be is a very good question. But the winter meetings are still a month off. A lot could happen.

By Randy

November 2, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Don’t know if this as been pointed out yet, but milb.com has a nice little review of the Braves minor league system.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071101&contentid=319385&vkey=newsmilb&fext=.jsp

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 2, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

How about this for a darkhorse team in the Arod sweepstakes? The Houston Astros. Think about it. They need a shortstop and another bat. Could you imagine that offense with Arod, Berkman, Lee, Wiggington, and Pence? They could come up with the money because they did for Pettite and Clemens. I think the Astros are a team to watch.

By Ed Glennon

November 2, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Enjoyed reading your comments. I have one really silly idea. Sign Torri Hunter 75/5 and trade Tex in the spring for a few players. Of course the main reason I like this is because it gets rid of Scott Boreus. I know, I have a fixation on him. Anyway tell me what you think.

By 22oz

November 2, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Yesterday I made my suggestions for the lineup and bench, but I was lacking one more bench player. Today I found him: Ryan Klesko. Still bitter about that trade, but Klesko was my favorite next to Chipper.

By TNRON

November 2, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

I cant believe people on here still consider Cormier and Carlyle as possible considerations.If they are we are in a heck of a lot of trouble.I think they will be non tendered.I would rather see JoJo or the new guy JJJ get the starts.At least they have a future.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, well, I think it would be silly for the Braves or any other team to go after Griffey at this point just because he is a future Hall of Famer. If I’m a team that has money to spend and need a good DH/corner outfielder, I’d consider going after Griffey. At this point he is definitely a below-average defensive centerfielder.

I think the point is he was not quite the Willie Mays-type centerfielder everyone thought he was in his prime. Don’t know if it is true but I trust the sources—John Dewan and Rob Neyer.

By Randy

November 2, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Sorry, link for the minor league report didn’t paste well, just go to milb.com and click on the Braves story in the main window.

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars—it is in our bench.

By Tim

November 2, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN!!! More than a few websites are reporting that Dan Haren is coming to Atlanta in a package deal included newly acquired prospect Jair Jurjens and outfielder Jordan Shaefer!!! Incredible move by Braves management!!! Great job Mr. Wren!!!

By Braveheart

November 2, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

I don’t think stamina is really the problem with Chuck James. He is just too inefficient in his first 100 pitches because he only has two pitches. Like most pitchers, he gets ineffective around 100 pitches. His problem is that he gets to 100 pitches way too fast - especially for someone who does not walk or strikeout a hell of a lot of batters. The point really is that he needs to learn another pitch - most preferably an out pitch so that he can be more effective and efficient through the first 100 pitches.

By Big Earl

November 2, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, if possible, could you give us a list (or point us to a web site) of the Braves current roster with 2007 salaries and the status of each 2008 salary so we can play GM. A list of all available free agents with their anticipated 2008 salaries would help too. Your guess on the 2008 salary cap of Braves new owners would be interesting too. Thanks.

By Fammorrell

November 2, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien,

What is the status of Bennett? Will we have the option of keeping him in Richmond to serve as our 6th pitcher? Or is he out of options, making it so that we have to keep him in Atlanta or watch him walk?

Cox seemed so high on him last year, as did McCann. I think he makes an ideal #5 starter.

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best), if Everett comes back healthy, he’s probably the best defensive SS in baseball. Maybe Rodriguez as a thirdbaseman or if Everett is not healthy. But I wouldn’t be too surprised. They’ve never been shy about making a splash.

Jeff R, again, it would be ideal to acquire a good, young arm like one of the Oakland pitchers but I’m skeptical that can happen. If the Braves are going to acquire a young pitcher with the potential to be better than Glavine, they’ll have to give up a lot of talent, talent I don’t think they’d be willing to give up.

Lew, just because the Braves say they are going to try to sign Teixeira and they want to, etc. doesn’t mean it will happen.

You asked, “Who are you going to believe? The Braves or some sports writer who doesn�t even cover the Braves?” Well, the Braves have an agenda. They are probably not going to come out and say, “we are going to keep Tex for a year then we are going to let him go.”

I have no idea whether Stark is correct but I imagine he’s going by what both sides have said and his experience coving the Braves and Boras. So with Stark you’re at least getting that perspective as opposed to just paying attention to what the team says. The team is going to say things that will give the fans and players the impression they are trying hard to put the best team on the field.

I think the Braves will try to sign Tex but agree with Stark that there is no way a player like Tex represented by Boras isn’t going to test the waters.

How’s that for rational?

By Ryan

November 2, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

HAREN IN ATLANTA!!! INCREDIBLE!!! i have no clue why the A’s gave him up but the braves now have the best rotation in baseball with Smoltz, Hudson and Haren!!! This is a great way for Wren to start. GO BRAVES!!! WELCOME DAN HAREN!!!

By Shaun

November 2, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Tim, what websites. Nice that you provided some sources for your lies. Or maybe it’s truth, but I’ll believe it when you provide those sites.

By Randy

November 2, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Big Earl - I use Cot’s for salary info. It doesn’t give estimates of future salaries but a great database of contract info.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/

By Tim

November 2, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

nevermind the rumor is not true…haren is not coming to Atlanta. the website i’m looking at is bogus. sorry guys.

By joebrave

November 2, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

And just what Damn website is reporting this Dan Haren trade????????????????????????????????????? Not CBS

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 2, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Where are you guys reading this stuff about Haren?

By MontanaBravo

November 2, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Do you think the idea of maybe having Orr or Prado take a crack at an outfield spot has crossed the braintrust’s minds? Maybe Orr could at least backup the corners but I’m not sure about Prado having never seen him playing anything but the infield. Orr might have overstayed his welcome and seems to be regressing but Prado is interesting.

By knowitall

November 2, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

I could be wrong but I don’t think Kenny Lofton will be wearing a Braves uniform as long as the current administration is in place. I don’t remember very many compliments being thrown his way on his way out the door.

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. George Bernard Shaw

By Lew

November 2, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

There’s no mention on the A’s site, the Braves’ site, SI.COm, ESPN.Com or AP. Where, exactly, was this deal seen? I can’t find mention of it.

By 22oz

November 2, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

This Haren trade reminds me of the one that got out last year when we supposedly traded Andruw Jones for Jake Peavy. Oh, if only…

By Randy

November 2, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Apparently “more than a few websites” turned out to be one bogus website. Solid.

By mariner

November 2, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you think the Zumaya injury would have any effect on the Braves thinking on Dotel’s option? In terms of picking it up and then trading to Detroit. Seems like he’d be a good option for Detroit on a 1 yr/5.5 mil. Like always, there are few closer options for teams needing one, and it would be nice if the Braves could get something for Dotel, or Davies actually.

By bigdaddy

November 2, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Re: itsouttahere: You make a lot of sense. A LOT of sense. I hope somebody’s listening.

By Steve

November 2, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

Tim,

You must be either pretty bored or pretty lonely to spout off such nonsense to begin with. If this was truly something you read, even if bogus, as you said, then please tell us all what website this was. Then, on top of that, who would be that bored to actually post that garbage on an actual website?

By tim

November 2, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Has anyone seen the rookie jurjjen pitch? What pitches does he throw? Good command or power pitcher?

By Lew

November 2, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Shaun-And conversely, just because he is a Boras client doesn’t mean they won’t, either. You and others know no more than I do. It’s all useless speculation.

By Buffalo NY Braves fan

November 2, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Lew, just saw your post about Smoltz in the OF. I bet he’s got a cannon for an arm too……

Instead of Coco Crisp, we should sign Toucan Sam. He can fly, literally…. no ball will ever go over this dudes head, and imagine the groud he could cover…….

Ok on a serious note…. We did not get Dan Haren for just those 2 guys, lets be serious. Dan Haren will not be traded to the Braves for anything less than Lillibridge, JJJ, Schafer/Hernandez, and probably another pitcher in the low minors.

I like the idea of trying Lillibridge in CF this spring, reminds me of what the Reds did with Ryan Freel.

Now for REAL breaking news…. the Yankees picked up Abreu’s option today. It has nothing to do with the Braves, but I figured I’d let you all know.

By Randy

November 2, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

tim (assuming you are not Tim), check out Jurrjens’ bio page on the braves site. It has about 4 good clips of him in Detroit last year. His numbers and awards show that he has good control (something like 120 walks in 500 IP, and named best control pitcher in the Detroit farm system last year I believe). The video shows that he has good stuff (mid 90s fastball, pretty good lookin slider, change-up). I heard something about a curve but don’t remember seeing it, could be wrong.

By Corey

November 2, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Reason The Braves Won’t Make The Playoffs (Again)…TOO MANY QUESTIONS

1) Renteria is gone - Sure, Escobar had an impressive season last year. But, lets not forget that much of it was at 3B while Chipper was hurt. Chipper has averaged just 119 games played the last 3 seasons. Who will fill in at 3B if he goes down again this year? We had a great option in playing Escobar at 2B, SS or 3B depending on who was hurt or needed rest last season. No more. He could have platooned w/ Kelly if everyone was healthy, but now we’ll just have to pray everyone is.

2) Outfield - Diaz, like Escobar, was also impressive in his limited role last season. But, how will he do when he has to face RHP more, and how will he take on the pressure of being an everyday player?

Harris is not the answer in CF. And, the promising young stars in the minors are just that - Minor league young stars. We cannot rely on one of them to take over and flourish in their first full season. Crisp is a logical choice, but I greatly prefer Griffey and using one of the young guys as his back-up. Sure, Griffey will miss some games, but he is more durable than Chipper. He has averaged 8 more games and 6 more homeruns a seaon than Chipper the last three years! Finally, he is much more productive at the plate than Co Co and will bring excitement to the game.

3) Starting Pitching - In my opinion, we currently only have 3 major league starters in the rotation (Smoltz, Hudson & James). Signing Glavine would give us 4. Can we really count on Hampton ore anyone else currently in the system to step up an be a reliable #5 at this point?

A lot of questions. We’ll see how many get answered, but for now, this team is not playoff bound. Every team has holes, but these are big ones.

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Blow, blow, the winter wind… WS

By bwash21

November 2, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew,

Thanks for your comments as to my post on Crisp. A couple things lead me to believe that Crisp has it in him to perform at that level. In his first year 2006 (only 105 games played)with the Red Sox, he fractured his knuckle in April and I believe was under alot of pressure to perform for the almighty RedSox Nation with the fans expecting alot out of him after signing as a FA. That is a lingering injury that can affect your swing all year. Later, he had kidney stones, a shoulder problem (another lingering injury), dealt with trade rumors, and then finally broke a finger in September. This year, he had more finger issues, thumb problem, shoulder again, and strained oblique.

Your right that Renteria coming from the Sox has absolutely no bearing on another individual, however, some players do not respond to playing under the spotlight that is Boston and New York.

Crisp, is in his prime at 28 yrs old and should have his best 2 years of baseball directly ahead of him. You made light of his 6 and 8 HR’s the last 2 years and that is what the statistics say but he had all those injuries to deal with. If you look further, his 2 previous seasons with Cleveland, he hit 15 and 16 HR’s, .297 and .300 BA, and a OBP of .344 and .345 which led him to his new contract with the Sox. His career avg is .280 and I believe his upside is somewhere between .300-315. My prediction of .290 is not far off and my HR estimate may be low if he can stay healthy. If he plays a whole season at leadoff with a .330 OBP or better, he would score 100 runs hitting in front of Chipper, Tex, and Frenchy. Interestingly enough, when healthy this year, he had only 104 plate apprearance in the leadoff spot with Boston, roughly 23 games (17 runs scored which would project over 155 gms to 114) and hit .323 with a .370 OBP so we know he can do it. As far as run totals, he’s hit everywhere in the lineup except cleanup over the last 4 yrs, affecting his total runs scored.

Many believed when he left Cleveland that he would be a .300 hitter with 20/20+ potential. I still think whether he is here or elsewhere that he will reach those numbers very soon and a change of scenary could be the answer.

Now, in fact, the more I have researched him to back up my original thoughts, he could be a steal for 5 million a year. He appears to me to be an ideal fit for a National League team and could thrive under Bobby Cox.

Thanks for the reply. I might be wrong but I really think he’d be great fit here.

By tim

November 2, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

thanks for the info Randy. i hope we sign haren but i have better sources so won’t get your hopes up unless needed. jk.

By 22oz

November 2, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Crisp wasn’t signed as a FA, he was traded to Boston for Andy Marte, and there were other players involved too.

By tim

November 2, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

anything over mike cameron. he strikes out too much for my taste. especially at 10-12 million for 4 years. if we sign him we would probably not sign tex. it would be like trading tex for mike cameron. argh! i like the idea of giving the minor leaguers a chance. coco crisp would be a good idea if they can sign him for 1 year or so, just in case the minor leaguers aren’t ready for another year

By Tomas

November 2, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

Dan Haren I wish it were true, but I think Tim is messing with us.

By bwash21

November 2, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Tim POST at 2:53pm

Please tell us one website reporting Dan Haren coming to Atlanta.

By ncscoots

November 2, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

how will he [Diaz] do when he has to face RHP more, and how will he take on the pressure of being an everyday player?

I’d say that’s one scenario you don’t have to sweat, since he won’t play anymore this year than he has in the past. Less, if Brandon Jones shows he can hit lefties.

As far as pitching goes, define a “reliable #5”. Any 5th starter who allows his team to win half his starts has done his job. Back-of-the-rotation starters are just supposed to not cost the team games over .500; anything better than that is gravy.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you about the holes, but, good grief, the winter meetings haven’t even been held yet. It’s a little soon to doom the team to the second division. :-)

By tim

November 2, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

any offense from cf would be a plus. it’s not like andruw got any hits except the 3 run homer when we were already up by 7 runs. as long as the minor leaguers can play good defense I think we should give them a chance. (AJ defense will be missed the most. he is the best def cf I ever saw play the game) i think that the money should be saved for pitching. smoltz won’t last forever and we are going to need another #1 starter in the next few years.

By AdirondackDave

November 2, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Let’s move off this Dan Haren non-sense until and unless some credible authority, like DOB, reports it.

Let me through this out there for comment. What would be wrong with this drafting strategy (baseball, that is, not Iraq): For the first 15 or 20 rounds, draft ONLY the best PITCHERS available (unless there is some absolutely compelling reason to go for a position player.) Since virtually everybody now agrees that pitching wins division titles and the playoffs why not go strictly for quality pitching and then, when necessary make your deals from a position of strength (pitching).

DOB and bloggers, doesn’t this have logic on its side?

By bwash21

November 2, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

My bad on Crisp being a FA. He did come over to Boston in a trade.

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Let�s move off this Dan Haren non-sense until and unless some credible authority, like DOB,

From “notorious” to “credible”, that’s progress. Anonymous

By esmerejindo vargas

November 2, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

Dear Frank Wren:(please read this)

Trade Chuck James and get two strong relievers. Or, trade Chuck James and we get Jacque Jones for a year! Also, please do not trade Bennett nor Jurjens, for they are Atlanta’s future when Smoltz and Hampton are gone. Jo-Jo Reyes we can put in the bullpen to bolster it! Think about it: starting rotation is (if we get Glavine) Smoltz-Hudson-Glavine-Jurjens-Bennett and yes I DO have confidence in Jurjens and Bennett. If anything happens to Smoltz or Bennett does not respond, use Hampton, or put JoJo back on rotation. Leadoffhitters: I think Escobar could make a decent leadoff hitter, if not, get someone like Pie from the Cubs, (while Schafer gets ready) sign him for a year, or hell just use Lillibridge or Hernandez (speedster, no?), and if that does not work, well then just use Kelly Johnson and pray that it works. But PLEASE don’t even think about getting Lofton back. That’s almost like saying ‘hey let’s get Grissom back, and while we’re at it, let’s get Klesko back…they’re not the same anymore.

We need to talk about Bobby Cox. Yeah I respect him, but he’s getting old and he’ll be gone soon. GET BOBBY VALENTINE. I’m serious!! The Yankees didn’t get him while they could nor did the Dodgers, so what do we have to lose??

Finally, if we cannot get Glavine, I love the idea of getting Danny Haren, although I wouldn’t give up Schafer nor Jurjens for him…But oh well, hes good so we need to sacrifice some talent to get a pitcher of his caliber. LET’S DO THIS!

By Corey

November 2, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

ncscoots - My personal opinion is that Diaz will get more playing time and he probably should with the numbers he put up last season.

I agree that you can only ask so much out of a 5th starter. But, for me, that would start with an ERA under 5. Anything higher and you are not putting your team in a position to win. Remember how much Smoltz was pitching after a loss last season?

Carlyle 5.21 ERA, Reyes 6.22 ERA & Hampton just cashes checks. See my point?

I am not “dooming” the team. Just stating the fact that this team has a lot of issues to address if they want to get back to the days of excellence when they actually made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs.

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

The Giants have even let it be known that Tim Lincecum, their No. 1 pick in 2006, can be had for a quality bat.

What qualifies as “a quality bat”? Thorman has some strong bats. He swings real hard and doesn’t break near as many as you’d expect. Ship some of his bats over there and pull in Tim Lincecum.

By wiki

November 2, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

$8 mil for Glavine……guess what he made in his first full major league season? $62,000……how things change.

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

For the first 15 or 20 rounds, draft ONLY the best PITCHERS available

The Braves draft strategy is to draft the best player available regardless. It’s the smart move. Not because the Braves are doing it, but because not all high draft picks amount to much, but generally speaking more high draft picks amount to something than low picks. That said, drafting the best available, even if it’s a position you are deep in, offers another form of “currency” when building your team. Just because you don’t draft the best pitcher available in the draft doesn’t mean you can’t acquire the best pitcher available when the time comes.

For reference check out Renteria. Again, I’m not a particularly big fan of this trade, but we were stocked at that position which made it possible to turn 1 player into two highly touted prospects. Wren says he isn’t done working, and I’m glad to hear it, so watch for some more moves where a deep position is “thinned” in order to fill a “thin” position.

Another way of looking at it… supose all the pitchers available for draft are of the caliber of this years free agent market and all the hitters are of this years free agent market. Why force yourself to waste high draft picks on Lohse when you could draft A-Rod?

By Tomas

November 2, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

Thorman sucks

By esmerejindo vargas

November 2, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

(profane) it! We want to win the World Series, right?? Then let’s get Schilling, Glavine AND Haren. Or if having three fourty-something year-olds is too weird, then let’s forget about Glavine and lets get Schilling, Haren, and Noah Lowry!!!
Rotation would be this: Smoltz-Hudson-Haren-Schilling-Lowry.

Good pitching wins games right??? Then this would be the ideal starting rotation to win games, without having to produce too many runs. That’s how we won in 95’ for pete’s sake!! Good pitching. We’ll be winning games 1-0 or 2-1 or 3-2 again.

If we need to sacrifice Schafer, we can keep Lillibridge. If we lose both, we have Gorkys Hernandez or Brandon Jones or Gregor Blanco. We could lose Jurjens and Bennett, as well as James and Reyes. We can even lose Van Pope and other promising youngsters currently in the minors. But we’ll have the best rotation in baseball even if we end up like the 98 Marlins when the 2009 season begins. We want to win the world series, period. We are sick of not reaching the playoffs or of losing in the first round. We haven’t reached the NLCS since 2001, right? Then let’s SPEND SOME MONEY, and DO WHAT SHCUERHOLTZ SHOULD HAVE DONE A LONG TIME AGO: Trade for big names.

Schuerholtz could have signed Schilling and Bonds years ago, but he did not. He just didn’t want to SPEND money. Ok, 07 Rockies are an exception, but after all they did NOT win the World Series; the Red Sox did. Because they spent a lot of money. I know Schuerholtz was a businessman, and he just did as he was told, and now the Braves’ new owners demand a tighter budget, but we need to get big-name pitchers like Curt Schilling to win a world series. We can’t have Beckett? fine, but we can have Haren or Lowry or both!!

Frank Wren think outside the box!! You want to win the 2008 World Series, then let’s do this!!!

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

*By Tomas

November 2, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

Thorman sucks*

Eye of an newt…

By AdirondackDave

November 2, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Tenn Paul - Remember, I qualified that draft strategy by saying “unless there is a compelling reason to draft a position player” or something to that effect. So of course, I would draft a phenom if he we available at that time. Just seems to me with the large pool of players available each year, that in most years, pitcher and hitter quality will be fairly evenly balanced and in that case, why not draft pitchers heavily if they are subsequently more highly valued in trades and roster-building?

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Tomas: Who’s talking about Thorman? I’m only talking about his bats.

By Curious

November 2, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

74-But be contented when that fell arrest

Without all bail shall carry me away, My life hath in this line some interest, Which for memorial still with thee shall stay. When thou reviewest this, thou dost review The very part was consecrate to thee: The earth can have but earth, which is his due; My spirit is thine, the better part of me: So then thou hast but lost the dregs of life, The prey of worms, my body being dead; The coward conquest of a wretch’s knife, Too base of thee to be remembered. The worth of that is that which it contains, And that is this, and this with thee remains.

Wurlitzer for me?

By Braves4Ever

November 2, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

*esmerejindo vargas * Dude maybe you should stick with Fantasy league baseball. I’m not sure your plan would get us to post season but it for sure forfiet our future. I don’t mean to be rude but this is the real world. You suggested using PIE until Shafer is ready. Maybe we should NOT use PIE until he is ready. He proved he was not a ML hitter. I think Shafer is THAT READY already. AND there is a reason that the Yankees and Dodgers did not get Valentine for their manager, …. d’oh….

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

Curious Thou doth beg too much.

By Tyler

November 2, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

It has been said that we are going for a World Serious this year. That is a reason Teixeira will not be traded. He could bring in a lot, obviously. Well hell, if we’re going for broke this year, and we really want a quality pitcher, trade for Santana. I’m not for it, but if we want to win this year, then trade Hernandez/Schafer, Hanson (or a top prospect) and Chuck James for him.

As I said, we’d only have him for a year, but it’ll be the same with Tex, and it sounds as if they want to win this year. Haren/Blanton would be smarter, but Santana would be the best pitcher we could get.

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Lew To he, or not to he? That is the question.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

The idiot who put up the Dan Haren lies should be permanently banned. Tennessee Paul , for the most part , I agree with your 5:20 post. However , the Braves philosophy of drafting the best athlete over the need for something specific (for example ,starting pitching) has resulted in the Braves becoming a major league farm team. In other words , there are far more players who have been drafted by Atlanta playing elsewhere in the big leagues than currently on the team. This isn’t necessarily a good or bad thing , it’s just a result of so many prospects being traded. A few like Adam Wainwright and Jason Schmidt , end up making us look awful , but thats the risk of horse trading and sometimes that risk can result in a Tim Hudson or Fred McGriff.

By Herman (The Baseball Expert)

November 2, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

Has anyone seen my friend Mr. Schwinn around here lately and what does a hot stove have to do with baseball anyway?

By chrisklob

November 2, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

Someone asked earlier today for the link to the Elias rankings. Sorry, I was out all afternoon but here it is:

American League National League

By Curious

November 2, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

Thou doth beg too much.

Alas, doth thou Bard play an honorary guard or do’est thine shackles chafe thou lard whilst playing thine card or merely claiming the yard too hard?

Being your slave what should I do but tend Upon the hours, and times of your desire? I have no precious time at all to spend; Nor services to do, till you require. Nor dare I chide the world without end hour, Whilst I, my sovereign, watch the clock for you, Nor think the bitterness of absence sour, When you have bid your servant once adieu; Nor dare I question with my jealous thought Where you may be, or your affairs suppose, But, like a sad slave, stay and think of nought Save, where you are, how happy you make those. So true a fool is love, that in your will, Though you do anything, he thinks no ill.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

When it comes to the loss of offense (Andruw and Renteria) , it’s a wash. In 2007 the two of them combined for 38 HR’s and 151 RBI , their career average together adds up to 45 HR’s and 175 RBI per season. It’s a reasonable expectation for Teixeira and Escobar to combine for 40-45 HR’s and 150-160 RBI. Don’t bother , I already added the career numbers , It’s an almost dead even comparison. The only real concern is , can Escobar and or Johnson be as clutch in the two hole as Renteria was ?

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Coach: That isn’t a bad thing. If you want to qualify it as a “major league farm team” so beit. Never heard the term before, but let’s role with it. The Braves only have 9 starting spots and 25 roster spots total to fill. We can draft top notch 3B, but Chipper is holding down that spot, so we trade the draftees to acquire something else. Likewise, for the better part of a decade the Braves had 3 hall of famers in the rotation which resulted in a surplus of minor league pitching which was used to fill needs else where. And lastly, every year, with out fail, the Braves draft more pitchers than hitters.

Jason Schmidt hasn’t made anyone but the Dodgers look awful. It amazes me every time someone brings that up. It wasn’t until his 8th season that he had an ERA under 4. It wasn’t until his 9th season he had more than 15 wins. He’s had only 2 15 win seasons in his life. In 13 years of service he has only 5 seasons with 200 innings pitched. He’s been on the DL more times than all of this.
And in return for trading Jason Schit the Braves got Denny Neagle who went 36-16 over 443 innings, more than Schit has ever thrown in back to back seasons. In one of those seasons he was 20-5 with a 2.97 ERA.
I guess the Braves should have held on to him though… if only they had, then only 5 short years later and several DL trips they would have fallen just short of getting the same production…

By Curious

November 2, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

To he, or not to he? That is the question.

Doeth thou Bard ponder his preference with thine altered reference? Is not the tale told by thy sender, with thine odd use of gender? Doest thou thusly contemplate such or merely not date much?

By MontanaBravo

November 2, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

So if Lincecum is avail, why not trade Thorman, Prado and another MLer for him?

By Wayne in Utah

November 2, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Websites all around are reporting that the Braves have traded Pete Orr, Scott Thorman, Buddy Carlyle and Rheal Cormier to the Devil Rays for Carl Crawford!

You heard it first here, folks.

(actually, just kidding, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of our really smart bloggers bought it!!!)

By Curious

November 2, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

If thou Bard cannot yonder and boast to keep up, perchance he may ponder and post, whilst we away to sup. Methinks silliness is next to blogginess.

Bard, all in good fun sir. Methinks we�ve run WS into the ground now. Carry on. Baseball cap back on now.

d:-)

By ncscoots

November 2, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

hoodathunkit. There’s actually a CF name bandied about that brings the same reaction as “Mike Cameron”, i.e., that it makes me want to hurl. Coco Crisp, fergoshsakes. Is there no depth to which the blog will not sink, LOL? Get a couple of Ryan Freel mentions in there and the day would be complete. :-)

Oh, well…go ahead and get one of these scrubs already, sign Glavine, call it a day. That way I can give up on the season even before nathan does!

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

Curious Me just calls ‘em like I sees ‘em.

By Tomas

November 2, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

What I meant when I said that Thorman sucks is:

There is no way the Giants are so stupid to trade Lincecum for Thorman. I mean the GM would have to be mongolic, with an IQ of 5. The only good thing Thorman did this year is that Homerun he hit against the Brewers in the bottom of the ninth against Francisco Cordero with two outs to tie the ball game up. And that he runs hard on every at bat and gave a good effort. But lets face it he hit 211, with 12 HR, he was an out dressed as a ball player same as Woodward.

By AZBravoFan

November 2, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Coach, I wouldn’t say the Jason Schmidt trade was so awful. The Braves got a couple nice seasons out of Denny Neagle, including a 20 win season. And while he only picked up one win, he had a string of decent quality starts in the post-season. Last I checked, Mr. Schmidt wasn’t wearing a ring either.

By AdirondackDave

November 2, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

The last couple of years the Braves didn’t reach the playoffs unfortunately, but they were a much more interesting team to watch with Francoeur, McCann, Diaz, Escobar, and Johnson. I say give Schafer/lillibridge/Blanco two of the roster slots if they impress during spring training. Save the cash for pitching and maybe a little bench help. Seems like we’d have a strong team for the division and league titles. Maybe even the ring.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Curious-I’ll tell you what. If I ever decide to commit suicide, I’ll use that post as a suicide note and will you a Wurlitzer from my estate. Dude, that was the most morbid thing I’ve heard since the dialog in a Hellraiser movie. Have you thought of screen writing for Clive Barker?

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

Slow? This blog does not do the word justice. Injustice? Maybe,

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

MontanaBravo, I’m going to assume you’re not serious about Lincecum and the proposal you made, since I haven’t ready up to see the previous posts. I’m really going to give you benefit of the doubt on that one, assume you’re being sarcastic or facetious or something other than serious….

Adirondack, I’ve said what I know about the Oakland situation, which is that if not this year then next, they’ll likely trade Haren and/or Blanton to restock their system with a few stud young players, because that’s how Billy Beane is able to maintain consistently good teams, by trading a young player for several younger players or prospects. It’s not that they can’t afford to keep Haren and Blanton; they can. It’s that those are the kind of players — young, talented, and under contract — that other teams are falling all over themselves to acquire, and will give up several prospects or players to get.

Oakland has plenty of young pitching, and very, very few teams can say that. They can strengthen other areas of the team and still have enough pitching. But again, I didn’t say it would happen this winter; I said it’d be this winter or next….

Braves Bard: Your stamp of approval, your opinion of anyone’s knowledge or credibility, is very important. Just so you know that. Very.

And why do you put an apostrophe after Braves in your screen name? Are you the Bard belonging to the Braves?

By geauxbraves2000

November 2, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

Oh man Chuck James at Wrigley? Talk about a ML record for HR allowed. Baseballs would be flying all over Sheffied & Waveland.

However, I think Jacque Jones could be had for a low minor leaguer with the Cubs picking up a lot of the tab. I watched him play last year, he’s not the power threat he used to be, but I feel he could be a fairly decent stop gap for a season.

Geaux Braves!!

By destin

November 2, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

Looking at the list of players that have filed for free agency, I noticed that Luis Castillo’s name was there. We still need a lead-off batter and KJ could compete with Diaz in left to solidify that position. As far as position players go, that would only leave center field, and if we had Castillo, the CF wouldn’t have to lead-off. I’m OK with Glavine for a year or two at below market value. An added bonus would be to take two assets from our rival - the Mets.

By N8

November 2, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

nscoots

I will NEVER give up on a season BEFORE it starts. Check last year’s pre-season posts, if you don’t believe me. I was VERY sold on the 2007 squad going into spring training.

It was only after watching them play for about 6 weeks, that I came to the conclusion that there didn’t seem to be any desire to try and win. Just a lot of trying NOT to lose. (YES, that’s directed at Bobby).

Same with this year. Quite honestly, I’m OK with signing Glavine. And I don’t even think we need to find another pitcher. I actually LIKE the idea of going with Triple-J in the rotation.

Anybody who’s read any of my posts, the last year and a half, knows that I want this pitching staff to get younger (which it has), but NOT with young “soft-tossers”. Give me some power arms, and roll with it. I’ll take our chances, with some power arms. Or has everybody forgot how good Avery and Smoltz were when they were young and how DOMINANT they were in the post-season.

Anybody recall Davies’ game he pitched in SD last year, where he was hitting 94-96 on the gun, and he looked OUTSTANDING? I’m tired of the “away, away, away…..LOW and away” approach that these guys do.

That philosophy can ONLY work when you have guys like Maddux and Glavine with pinpoint control. Needless to say, Davies, Jo-Jo, Chuck and company DON’T (and NEVER will), have the control of Glavine or Maddux circa 1993.

Hell, at this point if he’s healthy Bennett would be a welcome addition to the rotation. That guy has NASTY stuff.

So having said all of that, why on earth would I approve of Glavine returning?

Because if Bobby is gonna go with “soft-tossers” in the rotation, then we might as well go with the real-deal, not some cheap imitation (Chuck). That’s my feeling.

Not to mention, that (as I’ve stated a few times now), Glavine surely can STILL help this team win games from April-September, can’t he?

I’ve NEVER stated anything about him helping us win a world series. I’m not sure he has what it takes to win big games in the post-season anymore. But you have to get to the dance before you can show off your moves, right?

If (BIG IF) we get to the post-season, I’ll take our chances with an “Andruw-less” lineup, and Smoltz and Hudson leading the way.

Now if either of those two go down…..we’ll need a new blog (or 20) to discuss the demise of this team. :-)

I’ll go with the “over” on the over/under of May 15th being the date I “give up” on the 2008 season. LOL!

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

Novice Ned, what Stark meant was that Teixeira’s raise through the arbitration process for the 2008 season will probably result in a salary of about $12-13 mill, just about the same amount Andruw made last season. So that, in effect, would negate any money they’d save not having Andruw on the roster.

Just depends how you look at it. But I see his point.

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Curious As I read Lew’s response, you have the same chance of winning a wurlitzer as Chopin does. Sorry, but Crackerjack has some neat stuff.

By Braves' Bard

November 2, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Substitute “damn” every time you’re inclined to write “very”; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be. Mark Twain

To: DOB

By jb

November 2, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

In less the Braves can give up very little, CoCo is not the answer. Anyone can get a lot of chances when they play behind flyball pitchers and have no-range Manny Ramirez playing in left field. As for highlight catches, with that many chances, you are bound to have a few. Most American league players like him do not put up better numbers in the NL. With Boston’s line up, CoCo gets pitched to like a pitcher. Pitcher figures here’s a pitch over the plate, I dare you to hurt me with it. Defensively, Blanco is better. The Braves don’t need to trade for him and he comes really cheap. Offensively, he may not be as good. Keep the prospects and give Lillebride and Blanco a chance. (Heck they may be able to platoon in CF with Lillebride able to fill in in the IF also.)

By Brave Bard

November 2, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

I have dropped the apostrophe. Why that makes a sh!t, I don’t know. But, what ever.

By CC

November 2, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

That’s nice jb, but who is this Lillebride of which you speak? Dude, do you mean Lillibridge- as in Brent Lillibridge? just messin’ with you…

By ncscoots

November 2, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

nathan, that was a joke, son :-), hyperbole as humor due to a crushing lack of wit on my part. Hey, I’m the Pollyanna here, remember, LOL? I’m going with the over, too, BTW.

Help me, Merle, I’m breaking out in a can’t-they-hurry-up-the-damn-winter-meetings rash…

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul , your selective memory is bit amusing. Denny Neagle’s career numbers after the trade : 81-51 with a 4.38 ERA and he is out of baseball and has been since 2003. Jason Schmidt since the trade : 123-88 with an ERA of 3.83 , So yes , the Braves gave up much more than they got in return. Denny Neagle did help the Braves win the N.L. east division in 97-98. Jason Schmidt helped the San Francisco Giants win the N.L west twice(2000 and 2003) and the National League Championship in 2002. Like I said , the Braves gave up more than they received in return. Win some trades , lose some trades , thats baseball.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

Um, Wayne , Rheal Cormier is retired.

By AZBravoFan

November 2, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Come on Coach! You’re throwing Neagle’s Colorado numbers in that post-trade composite. No one knows what would have happened if he had stayed in a more pitcher-friendly park.

By Braves Boiiii

November 2, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

Rumor has it Jurjens and Gorky Hernandez our on their way out for one of the A’s starters. Blanton, Haren or Harden will be a Brave by next week!! You heard it here first!!!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

Woops , actually Schmidt contributed to three division winners and one League Championship.

By Ricky

November 2, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Braves Boiii

So basically we are getting one of the A’s starters (Blanton, Haren, or Harden) for Renteria. If it’s Haren it’s a great trade, if it’s Blanton its a good trade, and if it’s Harden i’m going to shoot myself. I know these Haren rumors are getting old but I think it’s a real possibility he’ll be Brave next year!

By Braves Barf

November 2, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

I just puked.

By Braves Bart

November 2, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this

�I am not my long-lost twin�

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

WAAAAAAAAAA !!!, Ok crybaby. I’ll exclude Neagles three seasons in Colorado. That leaves him at 62-28 with an ERA of 3.83 which still pales in comparison to Schmidt’s numbers of 123-88 and 3.83 ERA.

By Jared

November 2, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Interesting article on SI.com: Bill James� top 50 young players in baseball. Two Braves made the list, and its not who you think. Francouer is #26, and Kelly, not McCann, made the list at #49. Ok, so maybe one was who you think

No, say it isn’t so! Somebody finally sees that Kelly Johnson is better than Yunel Escobar?! Thank you Bill James for some sanity and logic!

Also, please do not trade Bennett nor Jurjens, for they are Atlanta�s future when Smoltz and Hampton are gone.

You cannot be serious. Bennett is not the future of anything. He’s the current version of Travis Smith. Nothing more.

Cox seemed so high on him last year,

Bobby Cox is high on everyone. He praises absolutely everyone. He was like ‘Baghdad Bob’ in 2006, praising Jorge Sosa all the way up until he was traded.

By Braves Bart

November 2, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

braves’ bard, eat my shorts, man.

By Random

November 2, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave (4:38 PM; 5:44 PM), TennesseePaul (5:20 PM; 6:30 PM); Coach (6:01 PM)

AD — For the first 15 or 20 rounds, draft ONLY the best PITCHERS available (unless there is some absolutely compelling reason to go for a position player eg, a phenom].) — doesn�t this have logic on its side?

why not draft pitchers heavily if they are subsequently more highly valued in trades and roster-building?

Well, one reason is that you�ve got half-a dozen or so minor league teams to field, and more positions to fill than just pitchers in order to do that. Another reason may be that too many pitchers may preclude the organization from giving them all a good chance to develop.

Coach — the Braves philosophy of drafting the best athlete over the need for something specific

The problem is, what is it � three, four, five years of development in the minor leagues before a typical draft pick is ready for the major leagues? How can you project your specific needs five years into the future and draft accordingly?

TP — I totally agree.

By Fan since 66

November 2, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Anybody see the comments Boras made about A-rod snubbing Hank Aaron in Denver.He says A-rod will meet with Hank to talk and contribute money from his next contract to one of Aaron’s charity’s.Another joke from Boras and “MR.I’M LARGER THAN THE GAME NOW”.And Boras says he will attend the Baseball winter meeting’s in Nashville.This guys doing more to ruin the game than anyone in history.The game cannot continue to put up with him and his overpaid superstars.This has all got to stop or,baseball is going to belong to guys like Boras soon.Fans are tired of watching guys like Ramirez,A-rod and Bonds standing and admiring the homeruns they hit.We want more Craig Biggio’s and Barry Larkin’s guys,who did’nt mind getting dirty to help their team win.Guys who played the game for more than just the money.Boras is just like Stienbrenner,its all about control.Control of the money,superstars and the game.

By Curious

November 2, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Have you thought of screen writing for Clive Barker?

No Lew, just funnin’ a bit by posting William Shakespeare’s 74th and 75th sonnets, following richbrave’s 73rd WS sonnet that you commended. In context with the other sonnets, not really so much morbid as resigned. Wurlitzer worthy, no. Clive Barker, yikes.

By Braves Rule

November 2, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

DAN HAREN IS NOT COMING TO THE BRAVES

Please stop with this nonsense. I’ve been told Francouer/Jurjens/Jo Jo are going to the twins for Johan Santana!!!

By CC

November 2, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

It sure would be nice to have some websites or attribution to some of these rumors. It’s all simply wishful thinking at this point without any sources provided to lend some credibility to your information… or did you look at the same website that tim looked at earlier when he “broke” the news that Haren was a Brave. This is a bunch of crap. You heard it here first!!!!!!!

By Dan

November 2, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe it Braves Boiii. That’s the bounty Detroit gave up for Renteria, and the Braves are going to turn it around and get Dan Haren? Yeah right.

Here�s a scary idea:

I�m sitting here watching a local morning show, and who should come on for an interview but Brian Jordan. And the first thing he talked about? A comeback. Seriously. He talked about taking a year off and feeling healthy, how the Braves need outfield help and he�s asking Bobby Cox for �a chance� in spring training.

By Harry Doyle

November 2, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN: The Atlanta Braves have traded Jack Parkman for Isuro Tanaka and Rube Parker.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

Jared , you know nothing about what it takes to gauge the ability of a pitcher. Cox and the entire Braves organization knows that they found a diamond in the rough in Jeff Bennett. The 27 year old right hander can flat out pitch. Four seamer and two seamer fastball , 94-95 on the radar gun , nice curve ball , good slider , outstanding change up. He blew away triple AAA hitters in the regular season and playoffs , pitched great in Atlanta. He is currently 2-1 with an ERA of 1.77 in the Venezuelan winter League. In other words , the youngster has done nothing but impress everyone. Amateur fans like yourself reveal everything that YOU don’t know about baseball with your comments.

By Curious

November 2, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox is high on everyone. He praises absolutely everyone. He was like �Baghdad Bob� in 2006, praising Jorge Sosa all the way up until he was traded.

So let me see if I have this straight: you think Bobby should insult and dismiss everyone until they are traded? Then what? Bash them more when they’re gone? “You cannot be serious”.

Bobby Cox may not be your ideal manager but he’s a supporter of his players. Look, I know you didn’t really mean what you posted. So why did you post it? “Sanity and logic”? Jared, words mean something and we all take you by your words. (blog pointer No. 848)

By CC

November 2, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

Dan, That is indeed scary. If Brian Jordan comes back and makes the Braves, then I think I’ll become a Mets fan because that would just be too difficult to stomach. First Julio Franco, and now BJ? Hopefully this is a joke, and if it isn’t hopefully Bobby Cox will respectfully laugh in BJ’s face if asked.

By braves bart

November 2, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

Look, I know you didn�t really mean what you posted. So why did you post it? �Sanity and logic�? Jared, words mean something and we all take you by your words. (blog pointer No. 848)

don’t have a cow man

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

I just don’t buy the belief that the braves deliberately draft the best athlete every single draft. Since 2000 , the Braves have drafted 17 pitchers and 18 position players in the 1st and 2nd round including compensation picks.

By Jared

November 2, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

you know nothing about what it takes to gauge the ability of a pitcher.

You don’t if you actually believe Jeff Bennett is a viable option for 2008. Who’s spot is he going to take? Smoltz? Hudson? Healthy Hampton’s? James? Reyes? Glavine (assuming the Braves get him)? Jurrjens?

The guy is an injured, career minor league journeyman. He had two good but not great starts and some are jumping up and down and saying through their bloody mouths where their knees jerked into that he’s our new staff. Get real. No one, no one, would be mentioning him if he got lit up if that small sample size of pitching he did when the Braves were already done.

seamer and two seamer fastball , 94-95 on the radar gun , nice curve ball , good slider , outstanding change up

Good fastball? Nice curveball? Outstanding changeup? I thought we were talking about Jeff Bennett, not Kyle Davies.

He is currently 2-1 with an ERA of 1.77 in the Venezuelan winter League.

Didn’t O’Brien say like a week ago that the current crop of hitters are tantamount to AA hitters and say the good talent hasn’t yet arrived?

The guy is likely never going to pitch for the Atlanta Braves in 2008 (if he does, there were a lot of injuries or something, and the Braves are in trouble). He’s nothing special and he’s not some great pitcher that is the future of the team who should be considered untouchable by the Braves. Bennett is going to wash out soon enough, you can quote me on that.

By Jared

November 2, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

So let me see if I have this straight: you think Bobby should insult and dismiss everyone until they are traded?

Not at all. It’s just “Bobby Cox is high on the guy” is pretty meaningless. It’s like saying “this player’s mom thinks he’s real good.”

By prattvillenolzfan

November 2, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

I haven’t seen any mention of this, but do you think the Braves would consider a 1 or 2 year stop gap with Corey Patterson….He was recently released by the Orioles…….He’s from Atlanta, not that that means anything…….

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

Jared , I’m going to save your comments for a rainy day in August of next year. Then I’m going to embarrass the hell out of you by reposting your stupidity.

By When in Rome...

November 2, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Man…Schafer is REALLY tearin’ it up right now. He has quite a hitting streak going. He has at least two hits in his last 6 games and an 8 game hitting streak overall. See Here!

By Lew

November 2, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Curious-Ole Willie must have sneaked that one past me in Literature class. Resigned? To what? Eternal torture and damnation? He might have inspired Tim Burton with it, but as far as winning friends and influencing people-well, maybe not so much.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

Jared-Apparently you haven’t read the new issue of Chop Talk, where both John Schuerholz and Bobby Cox talk about how impressed they were with Jeff Bennett and how he would figure into the pitching plans this spring. You may not agree, but they both said as much.

By Overlord

November 2, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

DAP & Shaun

Ill remind you during the course of next season why it is a better idea to bring Griffey than bringing Glavine.

Glavine is a great pitcher, but i think he will not have a fast start and i think he will have a similar finish or worse than in 2007. His arm is old folks, thats a fact.

Griffey is a risk, but so is chipper. Glavine just isnt the answer to our pitching problems.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Jared Where do you think the next great pitchers come from? What do young pitchers have to do to convince you? Become great pitching for someone else? I cannot say with certainty Jeff Bennett is going to be the next Cy Young winner but I can say he has a very great up side. My eyes tell me he is head and shoulders above many other candidates put forth by many on the blog. He is ahead of James, Cormier and Carlye right now.

Just don’t believe all the hype the agents put out on behalf of their clients. I really believe Jeff Bennett could be a number three guy right now. he has recovered nicely from his elbow surgery. I don’t know what more you could ask of him?

By Random

November 2, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

joebrave (Nov 1, 10:50 PM):

Three things,I hate in life, gnats, flies and ignorant smart@sses!!!

You don’t have to call me darlin, darlin — you never even call me by my name.

;-)

Say good night, Gracie.

By Lew

November 2, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Jared-BTW, did you actually watch Bennett when he pitched or did you just read the Box Score later? I hate to agree with Coach (scary as that is), but Bennett showed me (and apparently the Brave’s management) a good bit. He had a fastball in the 93-94 range, a knee buckling breaking ball. He had the balls to pitch both inside and outside and didn’t look the least bit intimidated when he came inside.

I’m not saying he will ever be a great pitcher or a staff ace, but aren’t those traits you look for in a pitcher? Come to think of it, I’m not real sure why you think he’s all that bad. With all of the pitching injuries we’ve had the past couple of years, just why wouldn’t the Braves give him a closer look? As far as replacing Hampton-no one has any idea if he will ever pitch again. The Braves aren’t even counting on getting anything from him.

By Tomas

November 2, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

Jeff Bennet also impressed me. But is too early to make conclusions about him. When he plays a full season, there we will find out if he can be consistant, and stay healthy. Remember Lance Cormier at the end of last year was dazzling but he was horrible this year. The same with Chuck James, and Jorge Sosa 2 years ago.

By Jared

November 2, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

I really believe Jeff Bennett could be a number three guy right now.

I’ve seen the light. I agree. The Braves need no longer look for another pitcher. Not Glavine. Not Ian Snell. Not Haren or Blanton or Bedard or whoever. They have found their third starter in Bennett.

Smoltz-Hudson-Bennett-Reyes-James

Looks like the best rotation in the NL to me! I know the Braves have had bad luck in the past two years at the #3 spot with Jorge Sosa (2006) and Mike Hampton (2007), but this Jeff Bennett guy is so unbelieveably good. Smoltz-Hudson-Bennett could be even better than Smoltz-Maddux-Glavine for at least a year or three or however long Smoltz stays around!

By Overlord

November 2, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

Jared,

With all the respect you deserve….. please quit the marihuana!!!!!!!

In your super rotation……which of those guys is as good as Maddux?

If you give me a fair answer to that, ill fire my 2nd question to you.

Could you please tell me which of those guys is going to have an ERA at least under 3.00? I can recall Maddux having sub 2 ERA more than once and that trio had sub 3.00 combined ERA from 1995 to 1998.

That is quite a feat, i dont think any member of the trio you mentioned is showing to this date that he is capable of having a 2.xx ERA in 2008.

By joebrave

November 2, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

I have a query?Just where in the he11,does the general consesus,come from that the Braves have no money? It has been stated that the payroll is more than likely going upward first by Terry Mcguirk,The man who happens to Hold all the Marbles,and 2 by J.Schuerholtz,I know I have read at least 50 posts here and other places mistating the fact,that A.Jones was let go b/c the Team could’nt afford him,No not at all,His reatrded,no let me change that RETARDED @ssed Agent,ran His asking price too high for a player who barely made it over the Mendoza line….. I call that Fiscal Sanity!!! Texiera on the other hand is a different calibre player,His worth is measured differently,So Yes if Management feels he warrants A Big Ol Fat@ssed contract,Liberty will ante up.It has been stated that Ownership will spend whatever it takes to Build the Value of this Team!!! There is quite a stark difference in spending dollars wisely,and being Stupid!!!Scott Boras is very good at his job,But that sonsabitch should be barred from Baseball Period……. And speaking of Stark,Who in the Blue he11 does Jayson Stark think he is????does he have a stake in Braves Team ownership?? I think not,so how dooes this Beligerent Ba$tard know what this team can or cannot afford!!!!!!!!

By joebrave

November 2, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

And Randm,before you adjust my posts tonight I’ll give you some food for fodder.There is not a Man walking this Earth,that’s worth 35 Mil/year…I don’t give a damn who you are!!!!No Man is worth that kind of Salary….Not Even A-Rod

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

We will just have to wait and see won’t we? The old crystal ball is still a little foggy. Oh, that’s smoke…. my bad.

By joebrave

November 2, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Damn,now Jeff Bennet is Roger freakin Clemens:gimme a break!!!!!!!!!

By Drew

November 2, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

IT’S OFFICIAL, THE BRAVES HAVE ACQUIRED KEN GRIFFEY J.R.

My guess is out CF worries are over! Great move Wren.

By TennesseePaul

November 2, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

Coach: Selective memory indeed. Very amusing.

Player  W  L  ERA  IP    SO  BB
Neagle  36 16 3.25 443.2 337 109
Schmidt 21 23 4.32 402   294 147

That’s the two full years Neagle pitched for the Braves and, at the same time, what Schit produced.

Schit didn’t have a good season until 2002 and even then he couldn’t give the team 15 wins. But let’s not forget the 5 trips back to the minors during that stretch while recovering from injuries. Or his wonderful 2000 season when he pitched in all of 11 games.

So yeah, selective if you select not to look at how he produced those numbers… in between mediocre seasons and DL trips. In the mean time the Braves went to the WS 2 times after trading him and won the Division title 10 times. So yeah, it really hurt the Braves and was a terrible trade. Wish they could have kept him during that stretch. Would have loved to have seen him manage the DL in a Braves uni during that stretch all for the nice low cost of $61.3 million.

By Rafa

November 2, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

DOB, There is something that i dont understand..

I have read a lot of times that the Braves would increase their payroll, and that before the Renteria trade.

So i was wondering, If what you say will actually happen, then why save money to “increase” the payroll if you wont spend more than a maybe 8 million in Glavine, then why doing trades like the Renteria one if you are not going to make an “impact” free agent signing?

I expected that this year the Braves would do a Good free agent adquisition but as far as i see this year wont be different than any of the others before.

But i have to admit that Teixeira was a unbelievable amazing adquisition for me, and of course i never expected it.

In conclusion, my question is why free up so much payroll to -in your opinion- just rely on young pitchers and actually dont signing any “top tie” free agent?

By David O'Brien

November 2, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

Fan Since 66: Boras attends every winter meetings, just as virtually every other prominent agent does these days. Been that way for most of a decade, to chagrin of many GMs and other baseball officials.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

No, Roger is done……. Would rather have Bennett.

By joebrave

November 2, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

As of yet Tis Team has no Budgetary parameters in place,so that means The Braves can Afford who they want to pay!!! Key words Who They Want!

By Ted

November 2, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

What?!?!??! The Braves really acquired Griffey????? DOB can you confirm this?!?!!!?!?!?!?

By David O'Brien

November 3, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Sure, Ted, why not. You’re a regular news hound, my man. Born for this line of work, obviously….

But seriously…

22 OZ., your post about Francoeur being ranked 26th among young players is going to upset a couple of regulars on the ol’ blog here, one in particular, who’s tried hard to convince everyone of Francoeur’s supposed mediocrity….

By Drew

November 3, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Here is the thing, the Braves need pitching (starting & closer)also a proven centerfielder. Just as a proven catcher is a good field general your center fielder needs to be second in command on defense. If the Braves don’t address these three specific needs their will be no playoffs next year.

By joebrave

November 3, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

Just where did you get that info Drew????????? no major sports outlets have that posted!!!! you d******* kill me!!!!!!!!

By Jared

November 3, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

People, it was 11:46 PM when Drew made that Griffey post. Have the Braves ever made a trade that late? The latest I can think of was when they announced the Betemit trade to the Dodgers, which was around 10:00 PM. But that trade was agreed to much earlier in the day and they just wanted to wait until the end of the game that day in July 2006 to announce it.

Every signing or trade the Braves make is usually between the 2-5 PM range. If somebody is trying to pass off some huge, unbelieveable trade around midnight, DO NOT BELIEVE THEM!

By KC

November 3, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this

Drew: The Braves have an excellent closer in Soriano, and we’ll likely get another one back (Gonzalez) sometime in June (give or take a month).

We do not NEED a “proven” center-fielder. The Braves have plenty of offense. It’d be nice to have a offensive threat in center, but they really just need someone - be it a kid or a veteran - that can catch the ball.

As for starting pitching… Glavine’s really all they need to add this winter. Don’t get me wrong, I hope the Braves pursue a top-tier starter this winter, but if there isn’t one available, this rotation should still be in fine shape.

Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine… followed by 2 of the following pitchers: Hampton, James, Reyes, Jurrjens, or Bennett. Between those 5 guys, we’ll find at least 2 capable starters.

By Overlord

November 3, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

I agree with you KC…….100%

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

Thanks bigdaddy > kind of you to notice.

I, for one, can’t get too excited about trading for Dan Haren. Yes he had 17 wins, but only three against teams with a winning record! And one of the three was against the Yankees where he gave up 8 hits, 5er in 5 ip.

Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine could make any pitching coach look like a genius.

Glavine should just retire. I’m certain the brain trust of the Braves have the intelligence to see this.

Let’s see what Aybar has. It is too early to give up on Cormier, Lerew, Bennett and yes, even Hampton. I would not be shocked to see Hampton give us 14 or 16 wins! You know he has the personal motivation to give back for what he’s taken.

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 1:39 AM | Link to this

KC, I must disagree with you.

Smoltz, Hudson, James > > and any two from the following:

Hampton, Reyes, Jurrjens, Bennett, Cormier, and Lerew.

If were gonna live in the past, then bring back Niekro, NOT Glavine, please!

By Captain Obvious

November 3, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this

itsouttahere, aside from Jurrjens, those are all the same guys that hung around the Braves organization in 2007. It didn’t work.

By Wayne in Utah

November 3, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 2, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

Um, Wayne , Rheal Cormier is retired.

Coach was wondering if anyone would catch that one!!

:-)

By Wayne in Utah

November 3, 2007 2:11 AM | Link to this

Of these 10 or so potential starting pitchers we have, I suspect from one or two will not be on the final list in the spring. I wouldn’t be surprised if we upgrade, and use one or two of these guys in a package. Just thinkin’ out loud.

Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Glavine(assuming he leaves the dark side), Reyes, Cormier (not Rheal), Lerew, Bennett, Triple J, and Boyer.

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this

Well Captain, it isn’t so obvious. Reyes, Jurrjens, Cormier… these guys are still almost teenagers!! With no “show” experience! Look at John Smoltz first year: 2W - 7L 5.48 era for the ‘88 Braves

or maybe Maddux: 6-14 and 5.61 era for the ‘87 Cubs

or maybe Glavine: 7-17 4.56 era also for the ‘88 Braves

These guys are ALL future HOF’ers !!! and the best pitchers in Braves (Milw. and Atl.) history, my opinion.

I remember some saying trade these “bums” after their terrible starts back then!!

By geauxbraves2000

November 3, 2007 2:28 AM | Link to this

It’s official, the Braves have just acquired SPs Santana, Beckett, and Peavy, and OFs Matt Holliday & Carl Crawford. No word on who’s going out.

Obviously I’m just kidding, but with all the garbage on here today I just couldn’t resist.

Geaux Braves!!

By KC

November 3, 2007 2:49 AM | Link to this

itsouttahere: Why not Glavine??

He was 5th in the league last year with 23 quality starts. He gave his team 13 wins and 200-plus innings.

Why not?

He will be a solid #3 starter. And please don’t bring up his age. He’ll only be here as long as he can help, whether that’s 1 year, 2 years, or whatever. The Braves are grooming their young starters. But in the meantime, it’d be nice to add another division pennant to our collection next year… and Glavine can help us do that.

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 3:30 AM | Link to this

KC > I don’t think we will get 13 wins out of Glavine. And he is too expensive for what he will bring!! Certainly, you cannot discuss this intelligently without bringing up his age!! We got 11 wins out of Chuck James, and paid him $397,000. He’s only gonna get better!!

Why give Glavine 11 million, or whatever we must overpay him, and watch him pitch with one foot in the grave!! He’s only gonna get worse!!

Let’s see… which is smarter… James at $397,000. or Glavine at 9 or 11 million?? Sorry, but this isn’t even close. You could reverse their salaries, and it could be said that it might be closer to their real future value!!!!

Don’t overthink this and make it more difficult than it really is!!!!!

By MontanaBravo

November 3, 2007 3:30 AM | Link to this

Hey DanOB: I don’t think any suggested trade with SF can be categorized as out of the realm of being unrealistic or too surreal no matter what players are discussed. We’re talking about the same folks who got Jason Schmidt for such a bargain. As for being sarcastic I think you’ve cornered the market on that you pompous jerk. I “assume” you haven’t been knocked off your bar stool as hard as you should have lately. Drive up to the Rockies, keep yappin and someone up here will address your manners.

By Random

November 3, 2007 4:47 AM | Link to this

joebrave, Nov 1 10:46 PM Random,I would also inform you,that the same Mr. Asselstine,was traded to the Blue Jays,along with an obscure pitcher,for Doyle Alexander�s first go around with Atlanta,yes the same Doyle Alexander that brought John Smoltz to the Braves�� 11:40 PM December 6, 1979: Traded by the Atlanta Braves with Pepe Frias to the Texas Rangers for Doyle Alexander, Larvell Blanks, and $50,000, Excuse me I was wrong about the Blue Jays,but rght about the players!!!!!!!! 11:43 PM with the exception of Asselstine,who did make the Blue Jays roster after a release by the Braves in 1982 11:54 PM Duane Ward was traded to the Blue Jays for Doyle Alexander�.

Yes, joebrave, you WERE rght — if by ‘Asselstine’ you meant ‘Devine’, and if by ‘rght’ you meant ‘repeatedly and obnoxiously wrong’.

Thanks for clearing things up for us there, buddy.

;-)

By Random

November 3, 2007 5:57 AM | Link to this

joebrave (Nov 2, 11:37 PM): And Randm,before you adjust my posts tonight I�ll give you some food for fodder.There is not a Man walking this Earth,that�s worth 35 Mil/year�

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Huh?

joebrave, I don�t �adjust� anyone�s posts � they all stand or fall on their own merit. Even yours; and also mine, as well.

When I quote someone, it�s a simple cut & paste operation. I also cite the time of the post, should someone want to check it out. I may misinterpret what someone�s trying to say, but I don�t put words in anyone�s mouth.

[Actually, you�ve got plenty enough words in your own mouth already; it�s our sometime misfortune that they keep spilling out. ;-) ]

Please clarify your accusation, if you don�t mind. Thanks.

PS: I don�t disagree with your point about $35M men (as if you even care).

By bill

November 3, 2007 6:30 AM | Link to this

Alot of people think that J. Bennett is the answer. He’s not the answer but will be in the mix. He’s just a accident ready to happen. Of course J.S. and B.C. are going to say good things but I’d be willing to bet that he will not be in rotation next season. If he was that good, the Brewers would have kept him.

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 8:00 AM | Link to this

I don’t know, Bill. Following your line of thinking, if Smoltz was so good, why did the Tigers unload him in the late 80’s ?? Who knows how well some of these younger kids will turn out?? Bennett may win 15 games two years from now, and he also may not make the team out of spring training next March. Some of this is impossible to call!

By Jared

November 3, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

“…may not”? I’d say there is at least a 95% chance that Jeff Bennett doesn’t make the starting rotation out of spring training. With Smoltz, Hudson, (probably) Glavine, James, Reyes, Hampton and Jurrjens, a lot of things would have to go wrong for him to get even a sniff of the Atlanta Braves’ 2008 starting rotation on opening day or even anywhere before September when the rosters expand.

People seem to think Bennett is a prospect in the same sense that somebody like Chuck James or Jo-Jo Reyes used to be. He’s not.

By wjones

November 3, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Dan, That is indeed scary. If Brian Jordan comes back and makes the Braves, then I think I�ll become a Mets fan because that would just be too difficult to stomach. First Julio Franco, and now BJ? Hopefully this is a joke, and if it isn�t hopefully Bobby Cox will respectfully laugh in BJ�s face if asked.

I’d like to see someone “respectfully laugh” in someone’s face. That would be really cool.

By BraveNess

November 3, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

A little something to heat the stove up:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xe5w0_ray-charles-jerry-lee-lewis

(by the way, how do you guys post links with one word?)

By Random

November 3, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Jared (8:42 AM)

I�d say there is at least a 95% chance that Jeff Bennett doesn�t make the starting rotation out of spring training. With Smoltz, Hudson, (probably) Glavine, James, Reyes, Hampton and Jurrjens, a lot of things would have to go wrong for him to get even a sniff of the Atlanta Braves� 2008 starting rotation on opening day …

Well, either (as you say) a lot of things would have to go wrong OR ONE thing would have to right — he could pitch lights out in Spring training.

By Dramatical

November 3, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

OOOOOOOOooh, Montana Bravo sounds like a tough guy. Nope, more like a lonely cowboy. Lincecum for Prado, Thorman, and another guy was your offer and you are angry because you got smacked around a bit? LMAO! Prado and Thorman are expendable and nothing more than throw ins for any potential trade. There are a million Thormans and Prados littered throughout the minor leagues. Lincecum is a stud.

Don’t get too close to that Hot Stove. I suspect you are too stupid to remember how hot it is.

By Dramatical

November 3, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Well, either (as you say) a lot of things would have to go wrong OR ONE thing would have to right � he could pitch lights out in Spring training.

I certainly hope not. If Bennett pitches SOMETHING HAS SERIOUSLY GONE WRONG WITH SMOLTZ, HUDSON, JAMES, GLAVINE, JURRJENS, HAMPTON, REYES.

By Random

November 3, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Dramatical (9:27 AM): If Bennett pitches SOMETHING HAS SERIOUSLY GONE WRONG WITH SMOLTZ, HUDSON, JAMES, GLAVINE, JURRJENS, HAMPTON, REYES.

Okay, let’s say nothing “goes wrong” with Smoltz, Hudson or even James, and they’re all three in the rotation coming out of ST.

If the Braves fail to sign Glavine, would you characterize that as something having gone seriously wrong? I wouldn’t — it’s not a sure thing. I’d be disappointed, sure, but not so a lot of our fellow denizens.

Would you characterize Hampton’s possible inability to come back as something having gone seriously wrong? When it happened last year I would, but this year? After almost three years and several surgeries since since his last action? The Braves are not counting on Hampton nearly enough to let his failure to come back be considered a SERIOUS disappointment.

So now it’s between Bennett and Jurrjens and Reyes — if all three do well in ST, and Bennett simply outpitches one or both of them, would you characterize THAT as something having gone seriously wrong? I sure wouldn’t — I think it would be great!!!

Maybe I have missed your point, but you seem to be rooting for Bennett to fail, which is not nice. (Or perhaps you’re just assuming that he will fail, which seems kinda negative at this point).

By Kentavo

November 3, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Hey everybody, Reitsma is available. Seattle declined his option.

By ah

November 3, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

when did the braves sign glavine? everyone seems to think he’s already in the rotation. Don’t count on it yet!

By Lew

November 3, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Jared-Just where do you come up with a 95% chance Bennett won’t make the staff? Has Shaun been tutoring you in the fine art of obscure and meaningless math? No one here on the blog-even Coach-has said he’s a lock for making the rotation. What we HAVE all said is that the Braves Brass is impressed enough with him since his return from surgery (and we base this on comments made by said Brass), that he will be in the mix-likely for the fifth slot. A few of us have pointed out as well, that he has good command of a couple of pitches, above average velocity and has a good “pitchers tendencies” (ie., the ability to work in and out on the plate and not be intimidated working “in”). I have yet to hear anyone suggest that he would be considered a #3 starter behind Smoltz and Hudson, much less a potential Ace (except for you in the middle of one of your freak outs).

Did the guy’s dog crap on your front lawn or something? Why is it you think, with all the pitching injuries the Braves have suffered in recent years and doubt surrounding Hampton’s return, that he shouldn’t get a chance to show what he can do? Do we need to mention, that of the possibilities for #5, Cormier spent two stints on the DL last year Chuck James one and Hampton hasn’t pitched in 2 1/2 years? Actually Dude, to NOT give him a chance under the circumstances is flat out stupid. Why do you think he’s pitching winter ball? They just needed someone to round out a pick up game?

As far as the guys suggested to compete for the fifth slot not being the answer last year, Cormier’s last two starts, Bennett’s two starts and Reyes final two appearances were all quite successful. By the time September rolled around, we had no problems with #5 like we did the first five months. Go check the stats-I assure you they’ll back me up.

By Rocco Baldelli

November 3, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

I’m good for 50 or 60 games. Heard DOB wanted me last year so please call this year.

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

I, for one, am certainly not looking for Bennett to fail. Frankly, we don’t need an over the hill Glavine! Over the last five seasons, he is pathetically 5 games over .500 > BIG DEAL! ( while playing for a team that keeps beating us in the standings and is solid, so he should have a better record! )

This isn’t 1991 - ‘93 anymore. Stick a fork in him and save the 10 million or whatever!!

We have plenty of solid candidates to follow Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, & James, with NO need of a tired, 10 million dollar 4th starter.

Chuck James had almost as many wins as Glavine, a better hits per inning ratio than Glavine, and cost a mere $397,000. compared to Glavine’s 13 million!! Give the 13 million to Tex and let Glavine become the national spokesman for FemIron /ExLax / Preparation H or Midol. LOL!

Why should the Braves become the dumping ground for Muts senior citizen throwaways?? First Franco, Now Glavine ? No thanks!

By Bo

November 3, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

itsoutofhear… I have to agree Glavine is DeadWood. Hope Wren don’t make that mistake. Lets just see how good Wren really can be..if he can come up with SP through trade or FA.

By Tyler

November 3, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

KC-Glavine would be a good acquisition. He will give us innings and a mediocre ERA. He will not be a special #3, however. He will instead be a more reliable Chuck James, but with a lower ERA (Chuck had a good ERA until August). If we are counting on him to be a solid #3, I think we will be disappointed. Bringing him back in desperate hopes of solidifying our rotation problems is not the answer. He adds depth, and I do hope he gets signed, and soon. But Glavine at #4 and Blanton at #3 is more like it.

BTW-Jurrjens sounds good and all, but he’s nothing more than Davies was. He is capable of winning a spot, but don’t count on him winning 15 games or anything.

Also, I’ve heard a lot of talk about the Braves and Alexi Ramirez. What are everyone’s thoughts?

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Bo, I wonder if we don’t have enough arms all ready!! If Hampton actually performs ( yes, it could happen …maybe!! LOL ! )

then we only have to worry about our 5th starter!!

and between Jurrjens, Reyes, Cormier, Bennett, Lerew, Pat Jarvis (oops!) …somebody can handle the last spot.

We all ready have a young version of Glavine… his name is Chuck James, and James pitches for us at 1/32nd of the salary of Glavine.

By BossLady

November 3, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Didn’t we beat this Glavine thing to death a week or so ago? Let Tommy come home and retire where he belongs. He won most of his 300 games in Atlanta and brought winning to the Atlanta Braves. As long as he is stable in pitching and give us innings (which we Need) let him pitch.

I don’t know of any better centerfielder I believe to be better that Andruw. The Braves knew it when they did not re sign him, so let’s move on and hope that our offense and pitching can save as many games and Andruw did for us.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 3, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Lew It was I who originally raised the point the Bennett could potentially be a number 3 starter. Did not say he was, said he could be. Nothing I have seen or heard since September has made me think that my own eyes have deceived me. Point I was trying to make is far too often people covet other teams’ players and fail to recognize what they already have.

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Tyler, Jurrjens does not sound like Davies at all!!

Jurrjens 3-1, 4.70, 30.2ip, 24 hits Davies 3-7, 6.66, 50.0ip, 63 hits (Davies with K.C.)

Letting Davies go looks like a good move, but not keeping Dotel looks like a huge mistake!! Dotel had 8 or 9 appearances for us, had one rough outing which hurt his stats. His one walk and 12 K’s are more of an indication of his real value! I am not sure even Soriano can match his numbers!!

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Gil, you are 100% right!! We have enough stud horses in the barn. We don’t need any old Nag’s (aka Glavine)

Lets bring back Phil Niekro! Might get as much outta him as Glavine!! Wheelchair in Glavine, and we’ll wish we had Andruw out there!!

By Lew

November 3, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Gil-I happen to agree with you, but I don’t think anyone is even considering Bennett for #3-at least not this time around. You’re right about the coveting part. It’s amazing some of the suggestions there have been for pitchers who are ranked right around Glavine-or pitchers hurt the last month of the season some think are must haves. Perplexing, but somewhat typical, if the past two offseasons are any indication. You do tend to hear some of the most improbable crap here at times-like Prado, a prospect and Thorman for Lincecum. Yikes. Oh, The Unreality!!!

By Brave Bard

November 3, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

“Shall this be our winter of discontent?”

By chrisklob

November 3, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

itsouttahere, if Dotel doesn’t come back it will be because he will want more money than the Braves are willing to pay for a middle reliever. He has a player option for $5.5m for 08. That’s closer money, not middle relief money.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 3, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

I’m not saying a team cannot or should not try to improve itself. Only that when it comes to making a business decision, emotion should not be part of the equation.

Many factors come into play when signing players, performance is certainly a big part of that but always remember form follows function, not the other way around,

By Who Knows?

November 3, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Who knows how the hell Lew can post here 24 hours a day and manage to have time to color those whurlitzers too? How does he manage to stay within the lines while he argues with everyone here on this blog? Who Knows? That does take talent.

By Lew

November 3, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

BravesBard-You mean following our Spring, Summer and Autumn of discontent?

By bill

November 3, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

itsouttahere, the Braves didn’t know how Smoltz would pan out. He was only 19 and a power pitcher. They got lucky with him. I hope Bennett wins 20 games but just don’t see it. There’s alot of difference in Smoltz and Bennett.

By Lew

November 3, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

WhoKnows-Yes, talent is something I have and something you’re apparently jealous of-no matter what ludicrous name you post under-any of them.

By uggggggggh

November 3, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Jo-Jo Reyes, gimme a break, he showed exactly what he is during his short stints this season, a pitcher with enough talent to gt second rate minor leaguer’s out and the occasional halfway decent start against a bottom tier mlb team and that’s about it. another version of chuck james, 5 innings and hope for a comeback by the offense, a big reason why the bullpen was wore out at the end of the season.

By uggggggggh

November 3, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Jo-Jo Reyes, gimme a break, he showed exactly what he is during his short stints this season, a pitcher with enough talent to get second rate minor leaguer players out and the occasional halfway decent start against a bottom tier mlb team and that’s about it. another version of chuck james, 5 innings and hope for a comeback by the offense, a big reason why the bullpen was wore out at the end of the season.

By Brave Bard

November 3, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

“A$ses are made to bear, and so are you.” William Shakespeare But, Who Knows?

By Braveheart

November 3, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

Looks like DOB is happy over there in Lawrence. KU up 28-14 really early over the Huskers. Well, change that. 28-21 right now. Who would have thunk that a KU-Huskers game would be a shootout?

Any word on how the Georgia game is going right now? Ain’t on television. Gil, after you get done making the shortsighted hypocrites understand the wisdom of a college football playoff, can you please explain to them the importance of all local teams actually appearing on television?

Better yet, don’t let schools from BCS conferences play outside of BCS conferences.

By MEB

November 3, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Troy Trojans are giving the Dawgs all they want right now. 10-10 right now 2nd quarter.

GO TROJANS!!!

By Randy

November 3, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Braveheart - UGA 10 - Troy 10, 2nd Q. Couple fumbles by the dogs, 80 yd TD run by Moreno.

By chrisklob

November 3, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, score is tied at 10 apiece with 6 mins left in second quarter.

By AZBravoFan

November 3, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

I see, so a .689 winning percentage pales in comparison to a .583 winning percentage. With identical ERA’s. Sure wish we had Schmidt instead of Neagle in ‘97. Then maybe we would have been spared another playoff exit, because we wouldn’t have been there!

By Braveheart

November 3, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the updates fellas. That sucks but it is still early. Looks like Moreno is being Moreno. Mark Richt is always much better when he has less options at QB & RB.

KU is up 48-24 at the half against the Huskers. At the freaking half. What the hell happened to the Huskers? I gotta call my buddy right now and rub this score in his face.

By chrisklob

November 3, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, dawgs up 24-10 at the half.

By d-rock in Scotland

November 3, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

How ‘bout them JAYHAWKS!! Have a restorative beer at Freestate and the Red lion for me DOB.

By Tyler

November 3, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

itsouttahere-My point was not that Jurrjens is the equilavent of Davies now. Remember how Davies first few starts went? His first was against the Red Sox where he pitched 5 solid innings, and I do not remember who his others were against but he showed a lot of promise. Jurrjens is at that point in his career-a lot of talent, but not enough experience to classify him as a #4 starter-at least not yet.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 3, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Braveheart It’s all about the Benjamins. They play head games with you to try and force you to buy pay for view to watch your local teams.

Does anyone remember the spiel that cable TV would lead to fewer commercials because the consumer was already paying for the service?

Not that I don’t believe in free enterprise, it’s just that it is not free……

Now baseball…. Blog denizens, please take into account that very few pitchers hit the big leagues as a number one or number two pitcher, if they were, they did usually went down with arm injuries.

I will admit to being wrong about Scott Thorman last year, I was wrong about Willie Harris too but Willie came back to the pack by season’s end.

I only urge you folks to keep an open mind.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 3, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Tyler , are you a professional baseball scout ? Davies was traded because he couldn’t throw strikes , Jurrjens was traded for because he has the best control of all the Tigers prospects.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 3, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Tyler , Alexei Ramirez could be another Yunel Escobar waiting for an opportunity to prove his ability at the MLB level. Somebody will give him a chance and I’m sure the Braves are taking a long , hard look at him.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 3, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

The dad thing about Kyle Davis is the kid had/has a ton of potential. His problem is he has not got his head together since he hurt himself. First he was afraid he would get re-injured then he he forgot how to challenge batters thinking he had to throw perfect pitches. Next thing you know he has walked two guys and the next guy crushes one for a three run homer. Now his head is really screwed up.

Pitching is a lot more than just good stuff. It is control and moxie. Having faith in yourself and keeping the batter off balanced. Yep, every so often a guy will have your number. Ask John Smoltz about Shawn Green and he will likely tell you he is a surefire hall of famer. But he is only one batter. You just try to make sure no one is on base when he comes up.

By Tyler

November 3, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Coach, can you read? I was simply saying that it is too early in Jurrjens career to say he’s going to step in and be our #4 starter. he might do well, absolutely. Just remember how Davies looked promising and collapsed and it could happen with Jurrjens as well. He looks like he’s going to be good, but you never know.

By N8

November 3, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN!!!

It’s OFFICIAL… My son and his other 9 YEAR OLD friends have taken over the blog.

Also, THIS JUST IN, the Braves have traded for Joe Thiesman to play 2B. Joe Gibbs is gonna be 3B coach, and Tom Landry is gonna be bench coach. Soon after Bobby will announce that John McEnroe is gonna be bullpen coach.

True or Not? Who cares?

Isn’t this fun? I could do THIS all day. How ‘bout you A-hole?

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 3, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

How are the braves CF prospects doing…? Blanco leading the Venezuelan league in BA at .400. Schafer in the top 5 in the AFL, hitting .397 in 68 ABs, other 4 above him have less than 45 Abs.

Rocco Baldelli… wait follow the thought here. Tampa Bay has too many OFs. Baldelli, Crawford, Delmon Young, BJ. Upton, J. Gomes, E Dukes, and maybe an OF prospect(?). Rocco’s trade value is probably as low as it will get. What would the Braves have to trade to get him..I don’t know. I does Tampa need a middle infiled prospect and a middle relief pitcher?

Get Baldelli, take the risk he can play CF and stay off the DL next season. Have Lillibridge ready to fill in or maybe bring in Blanco or Schafer if he goes on the DL.

If by miracle Baldelli does get back to a more normal .285 15Hr and 20 steals… we can trade Rocco next off season(hopefully for a god pitching prospect) or hold for 2009 if Schafer or Gorkys aren’t ready.

OK be kind just trying to find an idea for a good defensive CF with some offesive potential besides Coco Crisp or Cameron.

By jed

November 3, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

DOB

I was hoping you could address something. If, as jayson stark says, there’s very little chance the Braves will be able to re-sign Tex, then why didn’t the Braves trade Tex now and keep Renteria? I’m all for Escobar at SS, but couldnt you move renteria to 3b and chipper to 1b? We’re going to end up starting the ‘09 season with neither Rent nor Teixeira…seems foolish to me. Your thoughts?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 3, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Tyler , you are dumb as a box off rocks. The Braves traded Davies and acquired Jurrjens. You equated them as equals even though one was given up on and the other was traded in exchange for Edgar Renteria. Lets put it this way dumba$$ , would anyone their right mind trade Renteria for Davies and Gorkys Hernandez ? That is what your espousing , Tyler.

By TexasBrave

November 3, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Who here believes that pitchers more so than position players need more seasoning down in the minors. I always hate to see a young pitcher brought up for any other reason other than that he is fully developed and can’t benefit by staying in the minors any longer. Sure they will still be learning once they get up to the bigs from the school of hard knocks. But to bring up a kid who is not fully developed to get knocked around and get his confidence shaken is not beneficial to the kid nor the team.

Why not leave a potential star pitcher down in the minors and bring up a so-so pitcher who can eat up some inning but that the club is not as high on and let the potential star develop on a pace that will benefit the team more once he is ready.

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 3, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

OK, I meant “good”, not god in the post above.

By CC

November 3, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan- I understand where you’re going with the Baldelli thought… but I just don’t think we need another sure-fire DL-prone player on the team. We’ve already got Chipper. I’d rather simply take our chances on Lillibridge or Schafer, plus they’re a lot cheaper and won’t cost us prospects in a trade!

By chrisklob

November 3, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan, Baldelli has only played ONE full mlb season. That was his first year all the way back in 2003! He’s a good ball player but has proven he’s brittle. That’s a shame, but a reality.

Why would you burn prospects to get a guy that will get hurt? FW will be forced to put Lillibridge or Blanco there anyway OR be forced to burn more players/prospects to find a replacement. Besides, in spite of the fact that TB has a ton of OF’s they have a reputation of asking for the sun and the moon in trades.

Braves need a stop-gap CF until either Shafer or Hernandez is ready. Most of the CF free agents are going to want longer deals than are necessary for either of those two will need to be ready to play in the ATL. My guess is that they’ll get Crisp, or perhaps someone else that isn’t on our radar, or go with Blanco or Lillibridge, providing he can show that he can still play CF.

By Tyler

November 3, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Coach, there you go on a rant about how I equalled Davies and Jurrjens. Davies was considered a top prospect in the Braves organization at one point. Jurrjens is a prospect with a little experience. Jurrjens is at the point that Davies was at after his first season when he had a few good starts and looked promising. They are NOT the same now. I never said that. I said that it is possible that Jurrjens could sh*t the bed. All I’m saying is he’s not somebody we should be counting on yet.

By Tyler

November 3, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

By eric

November 3, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

Edgar will be missed but we have that young kid at short stop so we are fine there. Glavine wont make any difference, He is past his prime and was not very effective when the braves declinded to give him better offer than the mets. The braves need to focus more on a solid bullpen and not so much as buying expensive old players past there prime in hopes for a magical year!. Mike Cameron’s numbers were never impressive for 35 million! Griffey is not the Griffey he used to be and the braves are too cheap for Torri Hunter but aw hell lets go Braves!!!!!! See you in April.

By chrisklob

November 3, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

eric,you need to get your facts straight.

Glavine wont make any difference, He is past his prime and was not very effective…

Yes, Glavine is not the pitcher he was in the 90’s. I’ll give you that. But he did give the Mets 23 quality starts and pitched 200.1 innings. That was the biggest problem the Braves had last year. The #4 and #5 SP’s (and #3 sometimes too) didn’t give the team a chance to win the game. Braves need an innings eater, and while Glavine isn’t the dominant pitcher he was before, he still gives his team a chance AND he’s proven to be very durable.

…braves declinded to give him better offer than the mets.

Perhaps you may have already forgotten that JS had very little payroll to work with the past few years. Glavine didn’t get an offer because the Braves couldn’t afford him. Not because they didn’t want him. JS tried several times to cut payroll to give him room to sign Glavine but was unsuccessful.

By Brave Bard

November 3, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Many tempests. Many teapots. Alas.

By Miss Manners

November 3, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

“Tyler , you are dumb as a box off rocks.”

By TexasBrave

November 3, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

I think the addition of Glavine would help the team more than some might realize. Even though he and Chucky were equal in wins, Tommy ate more innings and would save the bullpen. Tom would also be a good mentor to at least one of the young starters (possible James). With Glavine in the rotation and the probable come back of Hampton, means we will only need one of the youngsters and the rest of them can stay down on the farm develope more there for when we will need them next year with the probable departures of Glavine and Hampton.

By Tom Osborne

November 3, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Turn off the shot clock!

By Braveheart

November 3, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Many tempests. Many teapots. Alas.

Many teepees as well. Come on. We’re Braves fans.

By Braves4Ever

November 3, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

TRACY RINGOLSBY http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7400932 FOXSports.com, Updated 1 day ago The Giants have even let it be known that Tim Lincecum, their No. 1 pick in 2006, can be had for a quality bat. That would be a nice pick up for us. Who could we offer of interest to the Giants? What quality bats do we have ? Tex, no way… Chipper, no way… Frenchy? I love Jeff but a one for one for Lincecum, hmmmm,,,,…. Might have to think about that one. Escobar, can’t trade our SS until Brent is ready, plus he could be in Center. KJ? McCann, nope, no replacement… Diaz, sure but it’d take more,

Just tossing this out there for debate, not sure even what I’d do….

By Anonymous

November 3, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Tyler, you are as dumb as a box on rocks.

By Braves4Ever

November 3, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

I think though, It’s Noah Lowry that can be had for a bat. GM Brian Sabean has repeatedly stated he’s not trading Lincecum or Cain. Maybe the great?? Ringolsby is confused. But it is still interesting to consider.

By Braveheart

November 3, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

looks like KU started running the 4 corners to keep the score down.

By Tyler

November 3, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

I sure am as dumb as a box of rocks.

By Steve Avery

November 3, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Trading Tex makes no sense at all. In my opinion, if they don’t sign him to a contract next winter, then trading away someone as talented as Salty was the dumbest thing they have ever done.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008))

November 3, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain are considered untouchable by the Giants. Noah Lowry has been mentioned in trade rumors. I have really have a hard time believing that the Giants would build up such a great young pitching staff and then trade part of it.

By I'M WITH STUPID

November 3, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

Tyler , I’m as smart as you.

By Lew

November 3, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

Braves4Ever-Sorry, Dude, Brian Sabean, the Giants GM came out yesterday on XM radio and claimed that Lincecum was available for a quality bat. Not Lowrey-Lincecum. They talked about it all evening on Home Plate.

By Tippecanoe

November 3, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

And Tyler too.

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 3, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

CC and KrisKlob Yes I agree do n’t give up prospects when you only need a stop-gap CF. I guess I jsut want to se the Braves do something different then where most here seem to think we are headed this off-season. i do not wnat Coco Crisp or TG on our 2008 team. I hope Wren can trade for a #1 or #2 starter to replace Smoltz in a couple of years, and get a solid CF replacment. If not that then I would rather have the youngsters Schafer/Jojo/Lillibridge/JJJ/Bennett play instead. I guess just go with one extreme or the other, no sitting on the fence, either build to win it all or give the youngs guys a chance.

By Steve Avery

November 3, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

Trading Tex makes no sense at all. In my opinion, if they don’t sign him to a contract next winter, then trading away someone as talented as Salty was the dumbest thing they have ever done.

By BravesBard

November 3, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, furthermore always carry a small snake.” Grinch

By bwash21

November 3, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

If you guys have better options than Tom Glavine I’d sure like to see them. We were looking for another starter at the all-star break and there was none to be had except for Kyle Lohse, Matt Morris, and Steve Trachsel. NO ONE is trading pitching right now because everyone is thin. And last year, Gil Meche got a 55M, 5 yr deal. Jason Marquis even got 10M per year for 4 yrs and soft tosser Jeff Suppan got 10M for 4 yrs too!! You can’t tell me that we have a better option than Glavine at 8-10M? Some might say Schilling but he’s going to cost more than 10M and pitched 50 less innings than Glavine this year. If anyone is going to trade us a decent starter it’s going to cost an arm and a leg, and another arm. I’d love to see any of the A’s 3 guys here if possible. Lincecum, you can stop that talk right now because it’s going to take someone like Miguel Cabrera to pry him away. DOB, congrats on your Jayhawks!

By Braves4Ever

November 3, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

* LEW * Do you think we have a bat They might want? What Would Lincecum be worth giving up??

By Lew

November 3, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Braves4Ever-That, my friend is a good question. Someone mentioned Francoeur and I think that’s possibly what they might ask for, but I wouldn’t do it-especially since we already need one outfielder. I’m not sure if we have a minor league package they would want. I have a feeling they would want a ML ready guy.

I might consider Tex if they threw in Rajai Davis and a baby pitcher, but only if we could make a deal for a good 1B. That might just set us up in pretty fair shape for the future as well as this year-especially with some of the good looking arms we have arriving in a couple of years.

Maybe since we now have Gorkys Hernandez, they’d be interested in a package including Schaefer. Lincecum doesn’t have a huge track record, but pitching is at a premium, so it’s hard to tell the price tag they’d attach to him. I imagine they could pull a DRays and overprice him. Kind of like swinging hard just in case you hit the ball.

By Braveheart

November 3, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

if sabean wants to make lincecum available for a quality bat, sabean should be immediately fired. essentially what he is saying is that i have made a ton of mistakes and created quite a mess with this team with all of these old crappy players. thus, i am trying to make up for those mistakes by trading lincecum for a quality bat which amounts to nothing more than putting a band aid on a broken bone. of course by trading lincecum he will be making a bigger mistake. he will be trying to get a band aid to put on a broken bone but by trading lincecum he will be creating a compound fracture. if sabean is serious about that, he should be immediately fired.

but of course if he is serious and you all are hearing sabean right, every single player on the braves except chipper, smoltz, hudson should be offered for lincecum. don’t care. send tex or escobar or frenchy or mccann or any of them. i don’t care who. that kid is a future smoltz.

how about how this braves prospect dixon is playing QB for the Ducks?

ROLL TIDE! up at the half. saban is still a gasbag though. miles is still a dunce of a coach. flynn is a garbage QB.

NAVY OVER NOTRE DAME!!! Willingham fired but not Weiss?!?!?!?

Bo knows this and Bo knows that but Bo don’t know jack ‘cause Bo don’t Knowshon.

Well, Richt did not release the hounds this week but that little foxhound knowshon still found the end zone three times nevertheless.

DOB, how many points did Milt Newton get in that KU game today?

By Braveheart

November 3, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

Lew, I love Frenchy but if the Giants were ever stupid enough to want Frenchy for Lincecum, you gotta say see ya to Frenchy without a second thought about it. Like I said in the other post, that applies to McCann, Tex, Escobar and everyone besides Smoltz, Hudson, and Chipper.

By Who Knows?

November 3, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

24 damned hours a day/ 7 damned days a week!

By MLB

November 3, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

Screw the damn Jayhawks! This is a supposedly a damned baseball blog!!

By The Grinch

November 3, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

Morning, all! DOB, I must admit you were correct. Nebraska absolutely SUCKS this year. :-)

By Who Knows?

November 3, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

Do any of you squinty-eyed hillbillies know how to play the banjo?

By BravesBard

November 3, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

“Real men do not own lapdogs. Don’t date women with dragon-tatoos. Always get chili on your Nacho’s Del Grande.” Braveheart

By Banjo Player

November 3, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

Who Knows Do you know how to lay across a log and enjoy it?

By KC

November 3, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman - Atlantabraves.com:

The [Mets have] interest in re-signing [Glavine] because it has no other pitcher on its roster who could replace his production — 200 innings and 13 victories last season. Even with the Mets losing his last three starts, their record in Glavine’s starts in the last two seasons was 42-24.

Those of you who think signing Glavine would be a bad move… you need to pay attention the facts.

By bfan54

November 3, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

Dave, Check out Johnny Horton’s late 50’s “I’ve got a hole in my pirouqe”:

“Cajun Leena’s waitin’ with some crawfish pies… “,, a moonlight night down in New Orleans, prettiest sight that you ever have seen… “….I’m up the river, hung around the bend, I’ve got a hole in my piroque, I just caint make it in.”

By Jared

November 3, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

I have yet to hear anyone suggest that he would be considered a #3 starter behind Smoltz and Hudson…

Well Lew, I guess you missed this:

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 2, 2007 10:10 PM

“Just don�t believe all the hype the agents put out on behalf of their clients. I really believe Jeff Bennett could be a number three guy right now. he has recovered nicely from his elbow surgery. I don�t know what more you could ask of him?”

So yes, there really are people here suggesting it.

Why do you think he�s pitching winter ball?

Chris Woodward is playing Winter Ball too so who cares?

Cormier�s last two starts, Bennett�s two starts and Reyes final two appearances were all quite successful.

Don’t you just hate the internet sometimes?

Lance Cormier’s last start, and game, of the season on September 15, 2007 against the Washington Nationals:

2.0IP, 5R, 4ER, 2 homeruns allowed and 4 walks with no strikeouts. Cormier earned the loss that day.

By Curious

November 3, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

Bard, you try, but you just ain’t got it. No clever, no funny, no poetic, no baseball irony, no nuthin’. Maybe Lard would be more accurate. Drop the Bard name, lard arse.

Who Knows? You are a pathetic picking little yapping nag. Get a life. Grow up. Such a lightweight.

By Curious

November 3, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

Ditto 7:17.

By Jared

November 3, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

Over the last five seasons, he is pathetically 5 games over .500 > BIG DEAL! ( while playing for a team that keeps beating us in the standings and is solid, so he should have a better record! )

The Braves finished above the Mets in the standings three of those five years. That’s 60%. Solid? The Mets were 66-95 in 2003 in Glavine’s first year as a Met, maybe partially explaining Glavine’s poor wins-loss record that year. The Mets were 71-91 in 2004. That is your idea of solid?

Glavine in 2007 was 13-8 and in 2006 he was 15-7. In 2005 he was 13-13. Is that a real decline? He’s gotten better compared to 2003 and 2004.

Finally, the 2006 Braves were the second best offense in the NL behind only the Phillies. In 2007, the Braves were the third best offense in the NL, behind only the Phillies and Rockies. So Tom Glavine would be pitching for a better offensive team that would likely give a pitcher who puts up a lot of quality starts like himself a better chance to pick up those wins.

By Lee

November 3, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

*By Drew

November 2, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

IT�S OFFICIAL, THE BRAVES HAVE ACQUIRED KEN GRIFFEY J.R.

My guess is out CF worries are over! Great move Wren.*

Drew, your an idiot

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 3, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

KC I agree Glavine will help the Braves this year, if we can sign him? He’ll hlep during the regular season, but I don’t believe he would help in the post season. If the Braves are serious about trying to put together a WS contender in 2008( with Tex) then we need a pitcher who will give us a great chance to win Game 3 in each round of the playoffs; and a solid CF(not crisp). I want the Braves to get another arm to push Glavine down to #4 during the Post Season. If the Braves are not going to go “all in” in 2008, then let the young guys play. Just my thoughts. The “facts” I see are those that show TG will not help in the post season.

By Curious

November 3, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

Jared So you proved you point, right? Way to go kid. Now you’re cookin’. Go get’em big boy. Show ‘em who’s boss. Find that evidence. Now, what’s you point? Oh, you have time to investigate the blog. Thought so. Why don’t you make yourself useful and go cut some firewood now.

Boy this blog is dead. Is there a fire stoker in the house? An opinion? A damn joke? This stove is so cold. It’s saturday night and the time is right for fightin’ in the streets boys.

By Lew

November 3, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Jared-The point remains he will be competing for the fifth spot in the rotation -not the third- and you don’t think he should. Unreasonably and unrealistically, but you just don’t want it to be. Have I mentioned your position makes no sense at all? It doesn’t.

By Curious

November 3, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Lee, how can I say this - try italics for quotes. NOT CAPS. And what’s with the asterisks? You are about as clear as mud. Make yourself clear man. Otherwise you are just perpetuating idiocy. One more thing: it’s “your and idiot”. If you make these fundamental mistakes again, your and idiot to.

Lee, Lee, Lee - try to pay attention and get it right next time. I don’t want to have to repeat this. Jeeze.

By your and idiot

November 3, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

This is what you get after DOB runs all the intelligent bloggers off!

By WAY TOO LONG!

November 3, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

What? Are you getting paid by the word? Consise would be NICE!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 3, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

I just wanted to send out my congratulations to Jeff Francoeur on his marrying Sweetheart Catie McCoy today ! Batter up !

By ronny a.k.a manny

November 3, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

By XBOX Freakazoid

November 2, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

If you don�t want Glavine, this is what you do: Sign Barry Bonds. Trade for Ken Griffey, Jr. Trade for Coco Crisp and sign Corey Patterson to pinch run in late innings for Bonds and Griffey, fill in when Bonds and Griffey are injured, and be defensive replacements for Bonds and Griffey. That way we will have bad pitching and a horrendous defensive outfield but heck we just might score 1000 runs and win 100 games.

Lineup: 1. Bonds, LF (great OBP); 2. KJ, 2B; 3. Chipper, 3B; 4. Tex, 1B; 5. Griffey, CF; 6. Frenchy, RF; 7. McCann, C; 8. Yunel, SS.

On the bench, Crisp, Patterson, Aybar, Lillibridge, and Pena.

Effin awesome team. Los Bravos win the World Series with that team. Come on, man, tell me it ain�t true? Trying telling me that. Go ahead. Try.that is all the team need……make that team and watch 08 is our year of braves…ring baby…

By Random

November 3, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

Curious (9:26 PM): Jared So you proved you point, right? Way to go …

Yes, Jared, way to go. I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically. Thanks for the digging, crunching and analysis, especially on both the 9:02 and the 9:19. (And prior posts as well.) Keep on keepin on.

By KC

November 3, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan: I will half agree with you…

I agree that Glavine cannot be counted on to be solid in the post-season. If you look at what he’s done in October since 2000… it’s a crapshoot. He could be excellent, or he could be awful.

However he finishes out the season will probably tell you all you need to know about how he’ll look in October. Since 2000, that’s been the trend for him. However he finishes September is how he’ll pitch in Oct.

But I agree with your basic point that he’s primarily there to help us GET to the post-season. Once we’re there… who knows what we’ll get from him.

By Curious

November 3, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

Keep on keepin on.

That’s clever. Sorta’ like, “dyn-o-mite”. Keep on truckin’ dudester. Or how about, what if they gave a blog and no one came?” Next you’ll be singing “I am woman hear me roar”? Here come da judge? Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life?

Random What? You talkin’ ta ME??? That is pretty lame don’t you think? Who named you Random? Your girlfriend? Boss? I happen to think you ARE Jared, defending your pitiful self!!!!!! Your and idiot to!!!!! Randumb and Jailred. Peas in a pod. Always pickin’ and grinnin’. Mutt and Jeff. Snap out of it.

Guess I told you, huh? So get over it. Keep on keepin’ on dudester. Be here now.

Your and idiot: You are just to plagaristic to even comment on. Go find your own JJS by way of troll material. Sheeeeeeeesh. Dim-witted night out huh? Throw yourself in the hotstove and do us all a favor.

This is just way too easy.

By Random

November 3, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Curious 9:26 PM Boy this blog is dead. Is there a fire stoker in the house? An opinion? A damn joke?

I�ll see what I can do.

;=>

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

Lew, I must agree with you! Adding Glavine is like signing Phil Niekro. Both are way past their prime!!

The Mets don’t want him! If the Braves don’t sign him, he will be like Bonds > a man without a team.

If the Braves are serious about regaining their stranglehold on the NL East, they won’t sign Glavine!!

It’s my opinion that we can all judge team managements desire to win on what they do on this issue. Do they really want to win?? Or do they want another Mets castaway…

By joebrave

November 3, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

As soon as all these sh1t posting,@ss-mongrels leave,the Regulars,will return,including myself,but somehow I think the morons will be here awhile!!!! Lew,JJS,SJA,WayneinUtah,Savannah Guy,Carolina Lady,Klobber,top of the evenin to you fine folks,but Ol Joe can’t take this invasion of the goober goblins on here if ya know what I mean………

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 3, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

I noticed the Marlins hired a new (former) pitching coach to try and straighten out Dontrelle Willis. Rumor has it he has a forearm issue. The scary thing is that is usually associated with elbow problems. It would explain a lot as to why he went from being a world beater to just plain beaten.

Yet another young pitcher to develop arm problems from overuse. Very sad…..

I shall not shy away from statements I have made about the potential of players I have seen. However, it should all be taken with proper regard to the context in which it is given.

Yes, Jeff could be a number three starter, that does not mean he will be a number three starter. That depends on a lot of factors. If the Braves make a big trade for someone, John Smoltz could be the number three starter. So many things can happen between now and April 1st 2008.

I saw some pretty good prospects pitch against the Richmond club this year too.

What I want to hear this winter is that Chuck James discovered that elusive third pitch during the off season. I don’t care what it is, just something to keep opposing hitters off balance enough so they don’t key on his change up. We all know he is not going to blow hitters away with a 90 mph fastball. His key to longevity will be guile and deception.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 3, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

Good night all. Looks like BC has assume the title of the preeminent Catholic University for football. When ND starts losing to the likes of Navy then you know they are nearing the bottom of the food chain.

By Random

November 3, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

Curious

No, I meant it — I really did appreciate Jared’s contribution.

And no, I wasn’t addressing you THEN — but I did a couple of minutes later (as I’m sure you’ve noticed by now).

Who named you Random? Random’s not my name, nor am I actually Jared (or any other nom de blog).

As I promised, I’ll see what I can do. Behind our efforts, let there be found our efforts.

;-)

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Gil, I enjoyed reading your post.

James needs to develop another pitch, and I wonder how difficult it is to do this? I cannot imagine Smoltz being a # 3 no matter who they sign. Even at his age, he can be as totally dominating as anyone I can think of.

I don’t think we need to sign a veteran starter. We have enough all ready, particularly if Hampton can come back and offer anything.

Jurrjens, Reyes, Bennett… someone in this group can get the job done. Even Lerew went to S.D and pitched 6 innings and only gave up 2 hits. Heck, Cormier could be another Tim Hudson. These things take time.

By richbrave

November 3, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART: (Yours of 1:17 p.m. Nov. 2.) I really wasn’t trying to dig those who “love” GLAVINE. Frankly, I never thought he had anything going for himself to begin with. But as I said in an earlier post on the man, he does have something inside that overcomes adversity, and 300+ wins proves it. And as I said then maybe the Braves and Glavine could take one last turn with each other on the dance floor. Actually I was trying to return the discussion to baseball and away from Mr. O’Brian’s discussions of country music and other sundries. Subsequently, have I birthed a disciple in Brave Bard ?? I don’t recall seeing his posts previous to mine on Shakspeare. If so, my profound apologies to all readers of this blog. If not, my apologies to Mr. Brave Bard for I am a rookie to these hallowed scribes and have missed his earlier pearls of wisdom.

By bp101

November 3, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Any chance Leo Mazzone could be brought back as pitching coach.

By chrisklob

November 3, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

itsouttahere

FYI, the Mets DO want Glavine back. Check out these two exerpts from the Mets page on mlb.com:

Whether he will continue his career with the Mets or the Braves remains undecided. The Mets want Glavine back in their rotation; whether the Braves want him after a five-year sabbatical isn’t clear. Both teams need depth in their rotations. Glavine has said repeatedly he would pitch for no other franchise.

He became the 10th Mets player to file and the fourth of the 10 who the Mets have interest in re-signing.

So itsouttahere, you got any ideas about who the Bravos SHOULD get, instead of Glavine, if they want to be competitive next year?

Joebrave, first of all, I hope the kids are better. Second of all, I’ve been asking myself lately where most of our good denizens are: Savannah Guy, Carolina Lady, Grinch, Bob, Journalist, et al…. Lew, Gil, and Braveheart have made fairly regular appearances here. I’m guessing that there are just too many trolls and a*******clowns around for most of the good bloggers.

Gil, you’re right not to back down from your statements. You’ve proven to be right more often not about our guys coming up and some of the other teams guys too! Keep up the great scouting work!

I’m with you on Chuckie too. Hopefully, Home Depot will give him enough off-time this winter so that he’ll be able to work out regularly and work on a third pitch. I see that as being the only thing that’s holding him back at this point.

By Jared

November 3, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

Random What? You talkin� ta ME??? That is pretty lame don�t you think? Who named you Random? Your girlfriend? Boss? I happen to think you ARE Jared….

Bi-Curious, you’re still batting .000. I have never posted on this blog under the moniker ‘Random’ ever.

You don’t even have to believe me. Just ask O’Brien to have the AJC confirm it for you.

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

bp101…we don’t need Leo, altho Baltimore would likely pay us to take him >>

and we don’t need Glavine, no matter how much money he offers to pay the Braves to wear an Atlanta uniform again.

Years ago, guys name Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine made Mazzone look like a genius.

By Tyler

November 3, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

K.J., Thorman, and Devine for Lincecum and Winn? They get their big bat, another potential bat (Maybe) and a future closer. We get our pitcher and our 08 CF. They might command more, though.

By Wayne in Utah

November 3, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

joe, chris, Gil

You guys hit the nail on the head. Sometimes I log on, catch up, and don’t even contribute, as there are so many idiots on the blog some times.

Also, my time for blogging has been cut into by work and family issues.

So when you least expect it, Wayne will be there, lurking in the shadows…….

GO JAZZ!!!

By itsouttahere

November 3, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, I too have read the items you mention. I believe that this is just glossy PR work, for the info. within the organization is that Glavine’s inability to get out of the first inning, in their most important game of 2007, doomed any chance he will pitch for the Muts again.

It is my opinion that we have all the arms we need. This becomes even more true if Hampton can offer us something in exchange for the large checks he has been depositing!

With Smoltz, Hudson, James , Hampton as the first four, then one of the following can handle # 5:

Bennett Jurrjens Reyes Cormier Lerew > >

It is my opinion that one or more of these guys are more than able. Which one remains to be seen!!

By Random

November 3, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

Curious (various posts):

“doth thou”; “Doeth thou”; “Doest thou”.

The blind squirrel never did find that acorn (it’s “dost thou”, dumbaxe).

By chrisklob

November 3, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

itsouttahere, neither organization is going to look at one start as indicative of TG’s ability in the big picture. Yes, he had a few bad outings at the end of the year. No question about that. Smoltz and Hudson had a few bad outings last year too. And neither team is looking at him as a #1 either.

I’m guessing that the starting rotation at Richmond next year is going to be terrific! Hopefully that means that the rotation in ATL is terrific too! As for the “glossy PR work”, why would the Mets pretend that they want him back if they really don’t? What is their motivation? The only thing I can think of is they might want to drive up his price if the Braves think the Mets are really, truly interested in bringing him back. But McGuirk has stated that there is NO cap on their spending to put a competitive team on the field this year. So what does it really matter if they spend a few million more by “competing” against the Mets for TG’s services.

I personally don’t believe that Hampton will be back. If he can get healthy and contribute, well, that’s bonus. But I’m not counting on it. That means that TWO of the other guys have to step up and contribute.

After last season’s debacle with SP’s, I suspect that FW will want to go to SP with as many potential candidates as he can. Last SP they started with six SP’s. Hampton went down and they signed Redman. Remember how bad the back half of our rotation was last year?

By Wayne in Utah

November 3, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

I would trade Francouer straight up for either Lincecum or Matt Cain. I don’t think the Giants would EVER let go of one of those guys for anything less than Frenchy or Escobar.

By A Joke?

November 4, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this

I love autumn. It gives me a chance to sit at home and watch the world series.

-Kinda like the Braves.

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Chris, I believe that Muts talk is simply out of respect for a sure fire Hall of Famer.

The back half of our rotation was scary. I remain more optimistic about Hampton than most, I gather. All repaired parts, a life of ease, and enuf rest > he should be as good as new!! He’s got more money than some banks all without lifting his left pinky.

To me, James is the equal of Glavine, but with a future. Glavine’s “future” happened in the early and mid 90’s.

Bennett, Jurrjens, Reyes, even Cormier > one of these guys can handle spot # 5. I also would not give up on Lerew. One of these five can handle # 5.

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

Wayne in UT > I cannot imagine SF really parting with either Lincecum or Cain. No matter who is offered.

The glaring need for strong starting pitching is too obvious all over baseball.

Even the Red Sox had weak starting pitching. Look at DiceK > he was hit up and lit up more than Pamela Anderson… LOL!

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

Wayne in UT > I cannot imagine SF really parting with either Lincecum or Cain. No matter who is offered.

The glaring need for strong starting pitching is too obvious all over baseball.

Even the Red Sox had weak starting pitching. Look at DiceK > he was hit up and lit up more than Pamela Anderson� LOL!

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

itsouttahere, you wrote (among many other things): “bp101�we don�t need Leo, altho Baltimore would likely pay us to take him >>”

Actually, the Orioles are paying Mazzone to do whatever he wants to do. They fired him with a year left on his contract, opting to pay him the more than $500,000 he’s owed to do nothing rather than have him serve as their pitching coach and be paid that amount….

Oh, and you also wrote: “The Mets don�t want him! If the Braves don�t sign him, he will be like Bonds > a man without a team.”

Uh, sir, do you have any idea what you’re talking about? Any idea at all? Because you’re, like, well, entirely incorrect on just about every assertion you make. So I was just wondering.

By Random

November 4, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

chrisklob 11:15 PM I�ve been asking myself lately where most of our good denizens are: Savannah Guy, Carolina Lady, Grinch, Bob, Journalist, et al�.

Don�t forget Shaun, Wayne/UT and DOB himself (even Coach). I just figured everyone had had their say for now and were off reloading over the weekend.

(Also, recall that Bob J (and SJA — perhaps even JJS — in misplaced sympathy) left in a tizzy after he was barely though fairly singed by some sharp, well-placed DOB sarcasm — who knows how long before they get tired of hyperventilating each other and slide back in?)

(Tell me, am I and idiot?)

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the Braves are looking forward to Glavine’s future. They are looking at right now. Everything I’ve heard and read says that they are going to go for it next year. That’s one reason they got Tex. They want to make sure that Chipper and Smoltz have a chance to win another ring before they retire.

As I’ve stated, if Hampton comes back and is successful, well, that’s just a big fat bonus. NOBODY in the organization is counting on him, like they did last year.

I do agree that one of your list will be able to handle #5 duties. Hopefullly they won’t have to rely on two of them. My strong suspicion is that FW isn’t going to put himself in that position. I think another deal, this time for a SP, is imminent. They’re not going to go to ST without plenty of candidates for the rotation as they did this past season. It’s not the Braves way of doing business.

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

Your and idiot (hey, it’s your screen name) wrote: “This is what you get after DOB runs all the intelligent bloggers off!”

You mean all the intelligent bloggers except for you, right?

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

Chrisklob, agree with you on Baldelli. He can’t stay healthy and right now, his trade value is way diminished. No way I’d give up a top prospect for him, not until he can stay healthy for a whole season, at least….

bwash21, thanks. It was a helluva day out at ol’ Memorial Stadium. Gotta tip the proverbial cap to Nebraska fans, because some 10,000 of them were in attendance, and most stayed till the very end and were classy in defeat….

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this

itsoutahere Go back and read your last two posts (12:06 and 12:13). I think you are contradicting yourself. (also, I agree that SF would be crazy to trade Lincecum or Cain)

On the one hand, you state we don’t need Glavine because you “think” Hampton will be OK, and then you say that the need for strong starting pitching is a glaring need all over baseball.

So, which one is it? Do you really think that if we could get Glavine, we should pass him up because you “think” we have enough???

Not trying to be argumentative, but it just sounds like you contradicted yourself.

Personally, I do not like what Tom Glavine did to the Braves. First he left his ONLY team for an extra year and some extra millions. The Braves did have some of the cash pushed out a bit, but still, where is the loyalty. His loyalty has always been to the dollar.

Not everybody is that way: ie John Smoltz.

Then, last winter he gave us to Sunday to get a deal done, but on Friday instead, he signed with the Mets. So, what was it Tom, Sunday, or Friday, or was it just trying to get NYM to offer more?????

Now, I am willing to forgive and forget, for a one last Chipper/Smoltz fling at the big prize. That is why Tex is here for probably only one more year, and why the Braves will pay TG to come back. They want 8 starters this year, after the debacle of positions 4 and 5 last season.

So, will the Giants actually take a hitter for Lincecum? That is the intriguing question. If so, I trade Frenchy in a heartbeat for one of those two guys. We could always pick up a bat, but how often do you get a chance to get a young stud pitcher??? If SF is serious, and we can pull that one off, then I gotta think we ditch Glavine, and make an offer for Rowand.

Whaddya think, my late night friend???

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Mr. O’Brien.

My point about Leo is simple to understand… the O’s were too happy to part with him, so why should the Braves entertain one second of thought to rehire him.

I have a friend who works for one of the Muts team physician’s, and the word I received is that the Muts do NOT want Glavine. So regardless of what the press says, I believe that to be the most accurate data.

As much stupidity occurs in here, I am not sure why you slam those who try to talk intelligently about our Atlanta Braves??!! And by the way, this isn’t an open forum for your latest music purchase, or a movie forum about what movies you happen to have recently wondered into! Respectfully yours!! RG

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this

DOB Long time, no speak. How’d your team do today??? I heard Clemson won, but I was frankly preoccupied in the yard all day, and had a function to attend to tonight. No clue on scores.

(BTW, I caught the end of the Jazz game on the radio. Beat crap out of Golden State for two times this week!!! Deron Williams is going to be the next top dog point guard!)

Did you hear the XM interview with the Giants dude Sabean (sp)?? Will he really move Lincecum (or Cain) for the right bat??? Also, would you move Frenchy for the chance to get one of those studs???

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 12:50 AM | Link to this

Random

from my 11.15 post chrisklob 11:15 PM I�ve been asking myself lately where most of our good denizens are: Savannah Guy, Carolina Lady, Grinch, Bob, Journalist, et al�.

et al means “and others”. And believe me they know who they are. Yes, I may have left them out by name, but not in spirit.

And no, it’s not misplaced sympathy for JJS or Bob, Journalist either. Wayne has been here sporadically, Shaun usually only posts M-F, 9-5 (his boss must HATE him (just kiddin’ Shaun)), and Coach, love him or hate him is on here a lot, usually overnight. Yes, we’ve even had an appearance by DOB himself this evening. He’ll be making his rounds, kicking the trolls and idiots upside their heads, for good measure.

By Random

November 4, 2007 12:51 AM | Link to this

Random (to Curious) 10:39 PM: I�ll see what I can do.

Sorry, all your stuff to this point has been irrelevant and/or boring — nothing to sink my teeth into. Try (harder) later.

(Also, I didn’t realize you and Jared had a little “history” going on, or I wouldn’t have come between you.)

(I reviewed y’all’s 8:48 PM, 9:09 PM and 9:28 PM exchange from Friday. Imo, Jared had the best of it, and you slunk away in silence, unapologetically obtuse.)

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this

Wayne, it is fun blogging with you. I was not trying to confuse… I think the Braves have enough arms now without adding someone like Glavine. Mr. Glavine is an intelligent pitcher who is past his prime. He also makes over 30 times the money of Chuck James, and the two are comparable to my way of thinking.

Sure, it would be fun to have Glavine back in a Braves uniform, but I don’t think it is the correct thing to do from a fiscal point of view.

SF shouldn’t trade Lincecum for A-Rod or anyone else. I, however, have been wrong before ( just like everybody else in here!! )

Let one of our young studs play CF!! He will likely be able to hit .220 like the previous great guy!!

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

itsoutahere Actually, dude, it is Dave’s forum for whatever the heck he wants to talk about. Like it or leave.

For me, I don’t get into all of Dave’s music, but heck, I just skip over what doesn’t interest me, and read what does…….

OK, DOB, greatest 5 classic rock songs of all time?????

Mine are quite diverse, and again, they are MY favorites, so I do not apologize:

Yes The Roundabout

Moody Blues Nights in White Satin

Golden Earring Radar Love

Derek and the Dominoes Layla

Lynnrd Skynnrd Free Bird

Stairway to Heaven is a close 6th, with Hotel California on it’s tail.

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 1:08 AM | Link to this

itsouttahere, Pay-Rod is a free agent, so NO ONE will have to trade for him.

By Random

November 4, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

chrisklob

Yes, I do know what et al (et alii) and even i.a. (inter alia) mean � thanks. I just felt the names I added to yours were distinctively a cut above other valuable bloggers that could inoffensively be lumped under an �et al�. No offense was meant, nor was I trying to correct you.

As to Bob, J, I intended to suggest that only the three bloggers I mentioned parenthetically (B,J/SJA/JJS) might still be smarting from DOB�s rebuke � I was not offering that as a reason for anyone else�s absence.

(And just as I was composing my post, DOB himself in a devilishly speaking sort of way decides to make an appearance.)

Anyway, thanks for the response and info.

By Johnny In-Sain

November 4, 2007 1:16 AM | Link to this

DOB - random thought. What if the market for Andruw isn’t what Boras wants. Might he take a 1-yr deal, hoping AJ puts up better numbers in ‘08? He could put the proper spin on it to save face. I think AJ was hurting more than we heard about last season and was frustrated. I could see him having a good ‘08. With him chasing flyballs in center behind a rotation of Smoltz / Hudson / Hampton / Glavine / James, I’d feel pretty good.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this

itsoutahere Respectfully, I think you are totally wrong on Glavine and Chuck James. Chuck has been a decent pitcher, but not worthy of the 3 position yet. Glavine, if you excuse the last three starts, was arguably one of the 20 best starters in 07.

Also, TG does not strain his arm like many flamethrowers, so it is conceivable he could keep going a few more years. Of course, he could fall to frickin pieces next year too, but…..

I am 52 years old, not terrible athletic anymore, and I can tell you, from the early to mid forties, the body does change. I aint what I was 10-15 years ago. Some day it will catch up with TG and Smoltz, just like it has for Roger Clemens.

So, I still am totally puzzled that you think our rotation is OK. I like to have three guys for every two positions. That way when things do go south, somebody is there in the wings.

Ring, Gonzo and Mahay for two lefty pitchers in the pen. And for the other 5 righties in the pen, I like to have about 8 potentials for those slots.

DOB I realized I had another question for you. Would we be wise to pickup Dotel’s option?? He might be a decent trading piece, or could help us out as the top setup guy or closer if Soriano has issues or goes down??? Just curious. I know about the closers money and all, but just wondering.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 1:22 AM | Link to this

Pay-Rod: I love it. And, I hope that he gets an offer for LESS than 26 mil per.

Now that would be poetic justice for him and his greedy accomplice.

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 1:25 AM | Link to this

Chris, the main point is that Lincecum won’t likely be wearing a uniform that does not say SF / Giants on the front of it. No doubt Magowan has a strong opinion on this…

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 1:33 AM | Link to this

Wayne, I’ve read that BorASS is still trying to get the Yanks into the bidding war for Pay-Rod. I hope to God, and to all that’s holy, that they refuse, as they’ve said they’d do if he opted out of his contract. Without the biggest spending team in the mix, bidding for him won’t be as high. Stick to your guns Steinbrenner!

Frankly, I’d be happy if he has to sign a one year deal somewhere for WAY less than he would have made if he’d stayed with the Yankees. BorASS is bad for the game and I hope he fails miserably and his other clients leave his sorry a$$!

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 1:40 AM | Link to this

Wayne, I enjoyed reading your words regarding James / Glavine. Glavine’s 4.45 era and 219 hits in 200 innings are simply NOT impressive. If he pitched for the Marlins his record would have been 8-13.

Compare Glavine to someone like Harang who was 16-6 for the lowly Reds who almost had the worst record in the NL. To me the difference is obvious.

I’m 50, an American in Hong Kong and trying to follow the Braves from 1/2 way around the globe. I’m with you on the body changing!!

I think Dotel is a keeper!

Purely from a fans perspective, it would be easier to “stay with” these players if they did not jump ship so easily! There is no loyalty!!

By Lew

November 4, 2007 1:45 AM | Link to this

Nobody ran me off. I’m a big boy. DOB has given me hell before and I’m still here. I’ve been drawing pictures. Y’all keep me busy.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this

Chris Agreed. Many will tell us (and in a twisted sort of way, it is true) that Boras is just doing what he is supposed to do for his clients, but how many times has he actually hurt his clients by putting them in the wrong situation/city???

Beltran, Drew, A-Rod in Texas. All were mistakes, in my opinion. Sometimes a player has to play where he is best suited. While Beltran might be adapting to NYC, I think he would have been better served in Houston. And JD had a great situation in LA, but heck no, we need more money, so it’s off to Boston. Ask Edgar Renteria about Boston.

Didn’t Mad Dog get a lesser offer from the Cubbies a few years ago, than what the Braves were offering???

For my money, I hope his clients rot on their a*******e$ this winter.

Go ask John Schuerholz if a win-win is preferrable to a win-“you got screwed” scenario!

Ask the Rangers owner.

BTW, who would want A-Rod at that $$, and knowing how he caves in during the post season? Maybe Art Moreno? Come on Art, get a handle on it dude!

By uga-brave

November 4, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this

just got back from the ga.- fla. game, seriously.

been down in new smyrna beach for a week. cant help but believe that our payroll is gonna be about the same next year. words like prudent, not available, and not in our best interest are going to be tossed around by wren. J.S. went upstairs for a reason, corporate ownership is lousy.

liberty media will wiz in our ear for three years and tell us that it is raining. renteria trade smells of a salary dump. so we just dumped around 20 million in payroll, got a bad feeling that it will not totally be replaced. really disapointed in what we got for edgar. better be something else coming besides glavine.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 1:48 AM | Link to this

Andruw is the BEST case for doing the exact wrong thing for a client. While he may do OK somewhere else, his heart is in Atlanta with Bobby Cox.

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this

Torre wound up with less $$ moving to LA, so maybe A-Rod will wind up with less too.

I don’t fault Boras…he is likely a superb negotiator, and simply gets all the market will bear!! He’s not holding a gun to anyone’s head, forcing them to pay, is he?

When A-Rods deals get done, it improves ALL players salaries all the way down the line. I don’t know this, but I bet this trickles down & helps every player laugh all the way to the bank!

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 4, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this

Tom Glavine even past the age of 40 is still an effective , consistent W.I.N.N.E.R , the question is , Do you want to WIN ? Do you as a Fan want the 2008 Braves in the playoffs because a Tom Glavine guarantee’s a trip to the post season. Tom Glavine is listed as a type A free agent , that basically mean that knowledgeable professional baseball people think of him as being in the top thirty percent of his profession. Elias ranked Glavine 16th out 105 starting pitchers in the N.L. I’ll spell it out even further. Smoltz ranked 2nd , Hudson was 8th , James was 20th and with Glavine as a third starter , statistically it gives the Braves the best rotation in the entire National League. I argued in favor of Tim Hudson last off-season and I was dead on the money. I’m giving the blog fair heads up , I’m raking in the cash……. again.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this

itsoutahere

Be careful looking at just the stats alone. They can be deceiving. And, I agree that Harang is the much better pitcher.

Personally, I think if we can get Haren, Harang, one of the SF pitchers not named Lowry, we are better off with them than with TG.

But, getting decent pitching is hard. That is because it is so scarce. So, if you can add a Glavine, even at 41, you do it. Plug in TG’s numbers in place of our #5 starters, and we are in the post season.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 1:55 AM | Link to this

So, how did a Braves fan get to Hong Kong?? This one got to Utah, via the US Air Force initially. Uncle Sugar sent me to the west, and I gravitated back there after a stint in Texas, Illinois, and back to SC. I will be checking out soon. You guys might have to close it down without me tonight.

By uga-brave

November 4, 2007 1:58 AM | Link to this

wayne,

how’s it going? agree with you on chuck n duck. i dont think he has a long future in the show. for whatever reason i just dont think he has it between the ears.

the only crafty thing about him is he knows how to install a window and give up 30 plus big flys a year.

By Lew

November 4, 2007 1:58 AM | Link to this

UGA Brave-Francoeur’s getting married. Are you going to crash the wedding so you can tell him how bad he is?

By uga-brave

November 4, 2007 2:08 AM | Link to this

lew,

its not that i think francoeur is lousy, i just think he should be better. he just is not a first name kind of guy yet, will he be? probably not. .285 25 95 is probably his future. not bad but , never a star.

By 24/7/365

November 4, 2007 2:26 AM | Link to this

Maybe Frenchy is the next Clemente or maybe just the next Jesse Barfield? Maybe he is the next Dave Winfield or the next Dwight Evans? Maybe he is the next Paul Oneill? Perhaps he is Geoff Jenkins? Maybe he is the next Andre Dawson? Who the hell knows what he becomes? Dude is 23 years old. Enjoy the ride. .290, 25, 100 with 40 doubles sounds pretty darn good for anyone. Yankees certainly did not complain when Paul Oneill was putting those numbers up every year in right field in the mid to late 1990s.

By uga-brave

November 4, 2007 2:51 AM | Link to this

lew,

i would settle for consistency and less k’s. 3 full years worth of plate appearances and not sure whether or not we have a star or a role player. k’s are not a big deal if you hit dingers like dunn or or fielder, but if you hit less than 20 and have a lousy .ops and dont steal bases i just dont get the attraction. no doubt that he is a plus-plus right fielder but this season will define his future.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 4, 2007 3:45 AM | Link to this

Yes , Francoeur has averaged one walk for every four strike outs , which is the one ugly stat he has. However , he has two eighty runs scored/one hundred RBI seasons back to back. Not to mention that since his MLB debut in July 2005 he leads the big leagues in assists with 44. He uses that cannon right arm to great effect and catches all the routine fly balls. Francoeur is an iron man , playing every inning of every game in 2006-2007.

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 5:04 AM | Link to this

Francoeur seems to be driven to become better. This quality is easy to admire.

I think our rotation should be Smoltz, Hudson, James, Hampton, and Bennett. Any of the others > Reyes, Jurrjens, Cormier, etc…who are able to chip in here and there will be just fine.

I’m from SC and miss it! I miss WTBS and Braves baseball like crazy! Often we don’t have a clue how good we have it ‘til we lose it!!

It’s easy to be an “armchair quarterback” and say they should do this and that. I’m certain I would NOT want to be making the real decisions, with the real money, while having the news media and the entire fan base question every move!!

Sign Tex long term, sign Dotel, and solve the CF issue in house, and everything will be just dandy!!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 4, 2007 5:05 AM | Link to this

DOB A tip of the cap to your Jayhawks. 76 points, wow…. Just pray they do not put your team into the dreaded and cursed number two spot in the polls. Well, at least not until the final poll before the bowl selections. Who knows, your squad could be playing Hawaii for all the marbles come the first of the year. Many land minds out there still though so enjoy it while you can.

Tom Glavin and money….. Hey. I’ve done some crazy things for money too. Everybody has their price. Does it really change what they are? Only thing is with big money come big expectations.

I think A-Rod and the Yankees were a match made in heaven but even Lucifer was cast out when he got a little to big for his britches. I am not a Yankee fan but I don’t see them giving A-Rod another chance after he cost them $21 million.

As for stud pitchers, I don’t think the Braves have enough chips to entice anything out of San Francisco. Sorry guys but sometimes the price is too high.

Speaking of which, is 5.5 mil really too much for a guy like Dotel? Somebody is going to give him the money.

A final thought, do some of you really think you can trade your junk for a premium money and buy someone else’s jewels at scrap prices? The guys who live in the big houses didn’t get there by being stupid. Well, some were born into them but that is another argument…….

By bill

November 4, 2007 5:18 AM | Link to this

It would not be to popular if Frenchy is traded but I would do it in a heartbeat. Trade Frenchy,James and Thorman for Sanchez,Linceum and a prospect. Don’t even think about signing Glavine. While in the trading mood, trade Tex for a bunch of prospects. The Braves will not pay Tex 20-25mil a year. Throw all the Braves young outfielders in the mix and let them learn on the job. Then move Diaz to first. The Braves are going nowhere if they keep getting broken down players. This would be a very young team with a chance to grow. I had rather suffer for a couple of years with a young team. Pitching,pitching,pitching!!!!

By Jared

November 4, 2007 5:37 AM | Link to this

I think our rotation should be Smoltz, Hudson, James, Hampton, and Bennett. Any of the others > Reyes, Jurrjens, Cormier, etc�who are able to chip in here and there will be just fine.

Yes, you’ve said this a few different times already. You think the same group that failed (aside from Jurrjens) to fill out the back-of-the-rotation in 2007 can do so in 2008. You’re also counting on Mike Hampton to be a big piece of the starting rotation, just like the Braves did this past season. You can at least see why others disagree, right?

By JSS

November 4, 2007 5:40 AM | Link to this

Random,

That was Brian Asselstine who tore up his ankle in the old AFC chain link, not Adrian Devine… Adrian was the Braves #3 starter in the late 70’s… I have two words for all of you Braves fans wanting to throw any player out in CF, Brad Komminisk… You Andruw haters are about to get what ask for, just like Falcons fans!

By itsouttahere

November 4, 2007 5:53 AM | Link to this

Jared, I certainly can see why others disagree! The only thing I’m firm on is not signing any big dollar pitchers who are on their way out! I’m pulling for Hampton 110% !

Diaz to first… pretty good idea!

I’d have a hard time trading James. Am I all wet about his future being bright?

I’d certainly vote for giving Dotel the money!! If we don’t, we gave away Davies. We may have given away Salty and others too on a Tex rental. These “guys in the big houses” are earning their money.

By Stinky

November 4, 2007 6:51 AM | Link to this

what about carl crawford?

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 7:15 AM | Link to this

SANTANA, Hudson, Smoltz, whomever, whomever. And I noticed something about Smoltzie. He’s as good as ever, BUT NOT AS LONG. Did anyone keep a stat on how many times he gave us three,four, five, good innings vs. what we needed ( i.e. six, seven eight)?? It seemed to me he was good for three-four practically every time out. Five, six not as often. Seven, eight innings infrequently and nine once or twice. Renteria ?? Braves put him out there BEFORE his obvious skills began to erode trying to catch a break and fill two immediate needs-Pitching and CF. If Braves executives say they’ll do whatever is necessary to get a winning team, then you would BUY Santana and raise the payroll while draining the farm system. You would retain Renteria for the short-term and pray Chip stays completely healthy for one more year. But that didn’t happen. Looks more to me like Braves executives are pursuing the espoused goal - another World Series Championship, but at the right price - whatever that level is…. One blogger got it right - don’t —-in my ear and tell me its raining. My favorite from that genre in one from THE OUTLAW JOSE WALES: Don’t P—s down my back and tell me its rainin’

By ncscoots

November 4, 2007 7:17 AM | Link to this

Well, if Brian Sabean truly has gone certifiable, then I’m guessing the chances of trading for Randy Winn just went to nil. So I hope the gods will be merciful and strike me not when I say…

Rocco Baldelli.

(SFX: sound of thunder crashing)

Yes, cats living with dogs and my proposing this guy. The apocalypse must be near.

Yes, I know he’s as brittle as badly-blown glass; yes, I know his OBP stinks; yes, yes, yes. But his trade value will probably never be lower, and Braves would only be on the hook for $6MM (this year plus a buyout), if they so desired. Many here are proposing paying more for mediocre options, while others are proposing yet more youth and inexperience.

Baldelli, to me, strikes a middle ground. A more productive bat than other names mentioned, if healthy; if not, at least there’s a chance for some rookie to get his feet wet before being counted on to be a major contributor.

It’s not a great option, and there’s much to be said against it. I agree. I just find the idea slightly more palatable than a rookie, the guy from SD, or the cereal guy. As in, it only makes me want to have a minor puke as opposed to hurling industrial-grade.

By Chris

November 4, 2007 8:00 AM | Link to this

I think they need A Jones at center no one out there better than him beside the guy is over 30 he get the job done the Braves need to start payin up and stop let other team gettin better off them and why it’s always the Black ones they let go I don’t like that DJ RG MG afew more in ther DEON now AJ all was still kind of young with a fast bat

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

richbrave, And I noticed something about Smoltzie. He�s as good as ever, BUT NOT AS LONG. Did anyone keep a stat on how many times he gave us three,four, five, good innings vs. what we needed ( i.e. six, seven eight)?? It seemed to me he was good for three-four practically every time out. Five, six not as often.

John Smoltz made 32 starts in 2007. 28 of them were quality starts (defined as going six runs or more while giving up 3 earned runs or less). Thirteen of those starts he pitched seven or more innings. Only twice did he fail to get thru the fourth inning. I’m not sure which “Smoltzie” you were watching last year but the one I saw was pretty damn impressive and did a fine job of giving the Braves a chance to win.

As for Renteria, his defensive skills have already eroded. The past three seasons his range factor has been at or below league average and his fielding percentage has always been around league average. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking him. He was a joy to watch these past two years. Unfortunately for him, they had a very good replacement for him in Yunel who proved that he could play the position AND replace the offense. The Braves were simply dealing from a position of strength to shore up two positions where they were weak.

Scoots, dude you can’t be serious. Please read my post from 4.27.

*ColoradoBravesFan, Baldelli has only played ONE full mlb season. That was his first year all the way back in 2003! He�s a good ball player but has proven he�s brittle. That�s a shame, but a reality.

Why would you burn prospects to get a guy that will get hurt? FW will be forced to put Lillibridge or Blanco there anyway OR be forced to burn more players/prospects to find a replacement. Besides, in spite of the fact that TB has a ton of OF�s they have a reputation of asking for the sun and the moon in trades.

Braves need a stop-gap CF until either Shafer or Hernandez is ready. Most of the CF free agents are going to want longer deals than are necessary for either of those two will need to be ready to play in the ATL. My guess is that they�ll get Crisp, or perhaps someone else that isn�t on our radar, or go with Blanco or Lillibridge, providing he can show that he can still play CF.*

Why on earth would FW go get a guy that is obviously made of glass? He’ll be great in the 40 or so games that he actually plays. Unfortunately they’d have to find someone to play the other 120 or so games too!

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this

What an idiot.

By wjones

November 4, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

The back half of our rotation was scary. I remain more optimistic about Hampton than most, I gather. All repaired parts, a life of ease, and enuf rest > he should be as good as new!! He�s got more money than some banks all without lifting his left pinky.

I hope you are kidding. Ask Mike Hampton what it’s like to rehab after major arm reconstruction surgery. Or ask John Smoltz. Then be prepared to duck.

By Random

November 4, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

JSS Thanks, flange1 already pointed out my mental hiccough, and then me and joebrave went round and round on the topic. (You ought to check out that fellow’s tirades when you get a chance, if you care at all for train wrecks in process.)

By cdinala

November 4, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

Glavine at $8-10 million? no thanks. It’s almost like the world (or Braves) owe Glavine something. That much for a guy who wins 10-12 games and pitches 200 innings? Nah, that’s Yankee thinking.

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

CHRISKOLB:

My take on JOHN SMOLTZ (that one- DUDE). Sorry, thank’s for setting me straight. Let’s see how this year goes!!!

By 24/7/365

November 4, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

For those that keep going on about Glavine not winning more than 13 games next year, who really gives a crap how many games he personally wins?!?!?!?

It’s about keeping the team in the game and setting the team up to have a chance to win. Quality starts, innings eating, quality ERAs by your starters lead to victories.

Don’t look to how many games he personally wins. Look towards what the team’s record is when he starts.

BTW, before his last 4 starts this season, the Mets were 42-20 the last two seasons when Glavine started. WAKE UP!

By BraveBlob

November 4, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

Curious 2 questions for you. 1. What makes you think anyone cares what you think about anyone or anything? 2. Where did you get your name, in a ticklepile?

By Chief Bromden

November 4, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Last year there were several teams that scored 4.9 - 5.1 runs a game like the Braves did.

One would expect Glavine at this point of his career to have an ERA+ between 90 and 110 which would make him an average to slightly better or slightly lower than average pitcher.

Here are the team won-loss records when those pitchers with an ERA+ of 90-110 pitched for those teams that scored 4.9 - 5.1 runs a game last season: Angels: 14-12; Rangers: 9-13; Indians: 40-27; Mariners: 55-39; Braves: 17-13; Mets: 46-34; Brewers: 18-16.

Overall, that made teams that scored 4.9 - 5.1 runs a game a combined 199-154 in games started by pitchers with a final ERA+ between 90-110.

An ERA+ of 90-110 basically was an ERA in the 4s last season.

If you want to be a naysayer and assume he ends up with an ERA in the low to mid 5s which would be an ERA+ in the 80s, here are the records of teams that scored 4.9 -5.1 runs a game when those kinds of pitchers started:

Brewers, 40-47; Braves: 17-13; Rangers, 29-33; Mariners, 9-3.

That made teams that score 4.9-5.1 runs a game like the Braves do 95-96 with a pitcher starting with an ERA+ in the 80s.

Glavine most likely won’t be a Cy Young contender anymore. The Braves don’t need him to be. Just be somewhat average and eat innings. Don’t be another reject like we saw 36 times last season when the Braves were 10-26 with the craptastic fifths because their ERAs were 5.50 or higher.

By Chief Bromden

November 4, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Smoltz averaged 6.43 innings per start. Smoltz pitched 6 or more innings in 28 of his 32 starts. Smoltz pitched 7 or more innings in 14 of his 32 starts. Smoltz pitched 5 or more innings in 30 of his 32 starts. Why don’t you just look things up?

BTW, Glavine pitched 6 or more innings in 26 of his 34 starts. Glavine pitched 5 or more innings in 30 of his 34 starts.

By Marty

November 4, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

To the blogger who opined that Smoltz seemed to be only going three or four innings per start, I have no idea what you were watching. This season, Smoltz averaged almost 6 1/2 innings per start, which is pretty darn good. That means that for every start that he went five innings, he had another start where he went eight.

As a matter of fact, Smoltz ranked third in the majors in both “quality starts” (at least 6 IP with 3 ER or fewer), with 28, and percentage of QS, with a whopping 81% of his starts being “quality.”

So, no, I don’t think any of us noticed that Smoltz was only going three or four innings in most of his starts.

By Marty

November 4, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Chief Bromden, even though you use junk Moneyball analysis to get there, your conclusion is inescapably correct — it’s pretty likely that Glavine will pitch well enough next season to help his team win a number of games more than the Braves got out of their #4 or #5 starter(s) last season.

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

CHIEF BROMDEN: I didn’t and that’s why I asked. Thanks for the info. Still, I think he’s as or more effective than ever, just not as long as a few years back.

By Chief Bromden

November 4, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

richbrave, you are right. he is not going as deep into games as he used to but he’s still going pretty darn deep.

By Curious

November 4, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

I reviewed y�all�s 8:48 PM, 9:09 PM and 9:28 PM exchange from Friday. Imo, Jared had the best of it, and you slunk away in silence, unapologetically obtuse.

Going to bed is “slunk away”? Random, you ARE Jared aren’t you!!!! Fess up. How else could you see it that way? Like riding your little bicycle into a tree, getting up and telling the tree that the bike had the best of it. Now you are even including me in conversations with yourself (12:51). That’s special. Jared or not, before I “slink” away, I am hereby designating you as:

Random (The Hall Monitor and Blog Investigator)

Note: Just raggin’ ya a little. No ill feelings or harm intended at all. Mere playfulness, just like the other posts to you and Jared. I was surprised you and Jared didn’t pick up on my over the top humor “criticisms”. Seemed obvious. If not, accept my apologies. Over and out.

Don’t Taze Me Bro’. ; )

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

MARTY: Yo Mart did I say he goes ONLY three or four innings ?? I could have sworn I said three, four almost all the time. five,six not as often, seven, eight infrequently — but invariably whatever he gives is all good.

By Lew

November 4, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

RichBrave -Chris was close but lets break it down a bit more. Smoltz went 8 innings 4 times, 7 innings 10 times, 6 innings 14 times, 5 innings twice and less than 5 innings 2 times. Not too bad for an old man. Also, you have to keep in mind that the bullpen was much better last year (as it will be this year-no Wicky) and Smoltz was not expected to go 8 or 9 nearly as much. I wouldn’t count on him going several more years, but I doubt he will be our problem child in 08.

By Curious

November 4, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Curious 2 questions for you. 1. What makes you think anyone cares what you think about anyone or anything? 2. Where did you get your name, in a ticklepile?

BraveBlob, my answers:

I don’t. Really. Honest. In all seriousness, just thought I’d add a little humor and give a few guys that called others idiots a little good natured leg pullin’. Not productive but my hope was to lighten it up a bit. No harm in that, right?
Just my nature. Also curious as to why some self-appointed baseball experts have to rag on someone else to make their own point. That’s all. Just curious. No harm in that, right?

Now, I have three questions for you Blob: 1. Are you really Random or Jared? 2. What exactly is a ticklepile?3. Did you do your own stunts in that movie with Steve McQueen or did you have a double?

By Curious

November 4, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Chief Bromden - have you finished sweeping the halls? Did you smother anyone with the pillow lately?

By ColoradoBravesFan

November 4, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

nscoots I’m with you on Baldelli. His trade value is low as it will get. I believe we could get him without giving up too much. Then if lighting strikes(like JD Drew), we get a good year or two from him, and “flip” him for better prospects than we gave up for him. But there is the chance we give up a Wainwright(like JD Drew).

By Lew

November 4, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan-Are you really serious about Baldelli? In the past four years he has missed 26 games in 04,162 games in 05, 70 games in 06 and 127 games in 07. He is scheduled to make $2.25 mil this year with club options through 2011, but if options are not exercised next year, the buyout is $4 million. No way you even consider this guy’s acquisition.

By BraveBlob

November 4, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Curious You told someone last night that they were trying too hard and they were not funny, or topical. Re-read that and take it to heart. Y’hear, Bro?

By Blogmeister

November 4, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Paladin…it’s time for you to drop that lame Curious moniker—you moron!

Or maybe go with Bi-Curious.

By [/\][][][]Berigan[][][][/\]

November 4, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Ok, the dreaded TB Devil Ray trade talk has started. ;) Last year, we laughed in the face of TB for mentioning Chucky for Baldelli. Would anyone be in favor of that trade now??? Chucky’s number’s don’t look much worse than the year before….but, is Baldelli worth the risk? As mentioned above we took a flyer on the often injured JD Drew before.

Man, just looked up his numbers….he only hit .203 last year in 35 games! Wow. I don’t know about trading for him now….he’s signed up for awhile…here is some medical info I found on him on espn(They apparently have med info for fantasy folk)

Rocco Baldelli, OF, Devil Rays: A while back, we discussed the possibility that Baldelli’s troublesome hamstrings might end his 2007 season. With September roster expansion here, it’s becoming obvious that this will be the case. While out on a rehab assignment last Thursday, he felt more soreness and was shut down. Look for Baldelli and the Devil Rays to continue to look for solutions to his hamstring issues. This even might include sending him to a back specialist or evaluating his running style to see if that would correct the problem. There have been reports that Baldelli is considering retirement, but we do not have any information that would lead us to make that assessment. There is no doubt both Tampa Bay and Baldelli are frustrated, but he is just 27 years old and is in the prime of his career. He is too competitive to hang up his spikes at this age unless there is some underlying medical condition that has gone unreported.

By Blogmeister

November 4, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Paladin give the Curious moniker a rest!

By BraveBlob

November 4, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

BlogMoron I think that fits you much better than “Blogmeister”.

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

LEW:

THAT’S the stats I was looking for. THANK YOU!! Looks like he was in about one inning longer that I surmised. Six and seven innings. My longing for complete games(like the old days) clouded my vision. Considering the rest of the rotation from ‘07 (HUDSON EXCEPTED) he looks like SUPERMAN!! At 41 will he be able to keep it up?? Hudson’s enigmatic, up and down. I felt Smoltz was the best overall pitcher on the team in ‘07. But its time for another steady hand at the top of the rotation. Johan Santana appears to be the best available. I’m sure the Braves want that young arm like Smoltz was back in the late 80’s. HOWEVER, I don’t think they can get it done with another trade similar to the one that brought him here. Teams all want quality arms, and they’re not parting with what they have unless payroll gets in the way. Which brings me back to the supposition that you’ve got to pay BIG to play well.

By Curious

November 4, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Blob: - you sure are touchy for a big pile of jello in a B movie. Didn’t mean to ruin your day. I’ll take it to heart. Didn’t mean to ruffle feathers (or jiggle jello). ; )

Blogmeister: - I’m not Paladin nor have I ever been. You probably owe him an apology now. As for me, are you insinuating something ugly? Whatever. Let’s not go there.

Even with funny names you guys are just no fun. I’m leaving then. You win. I heard this blog was fun but I’m feeling ganged up on for no good reason. Was just trying to make nice before with a post but you won’t have that I guess. Sorry for your troubles and I won’t cause any more. I’ll leave with head down and shoulders shrugged. Sincerely, Curious.

By [/\][][][]Berigan[][][][/\]

November 4, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Man, what a difference a year makes! Imagine if we had been stupid enough to trade these guys for Baldelli!!!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754894&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

By BraveBlob

November 4, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Curious One of the things about this blog is you have to learn to take it, if you are going to dish it out. Actually, you have some good lines and a sense of humor. And an IQ above room temperature. Stay around and let’s play.

By Tyler

November 4, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Looks like many other teams are in the running for Lincecum before us, especially the Rays. Crawford or Young for Lincecum sounds good. Same goes for Haren/Blanton. Looks like teams like the Rockies, Mets, Diamondbacks, plus more, according to elismlbrumors.com. Maybe Haren is traded to the Rockies but we get Blanton. That would still work for me. I firmly believe that we need a reliable top of the rotation guy to fill our #3 spot in order to make it through the entire season and finish in 1st place.

I’d like to see Schafer/Lillbridge play center, but I have seen rumors of Alexi Ramirez coming to the Braves. It also says he can play SS and 2B, which could mean KJ could be traded.

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

GIL in Mechanicsville:

Been going to Braves games since Parker Field days. Went to see Luke Easter from Rochester, Tony Kubeck(sp.) and the boys in pinstripes before the Bravos hit town. Let’s do some scoutin’

By CC Rider

November 4, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

EVERYBODY, Jordan Schafer is batting .397 in the Arizona Fall League. Last year Salty and Yunel Escobar used their top hitting in the AFL as a springboard to the bigs. I don’t care how old or young a player is, if he comes to spring training and performs against major league pitchers he should play. THe Upton brothers, Andruw Jones Francoeur and many others were in the majors at 21. It’s about performance not age. Give Schafer and Lillibridge the chance to show their ready or not in the spring before wasting propects to get a stop gap, you can always find the same mediocre players available then. Spend money on the starting rotation and the bullpen!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 4, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

The curse of short, tight hamstrings…. Ask Chipper about those.

I played football for three years in high school and within the first three days of practice each year I would feel first one then the other pop. Made me for one slow dude. However it was play thru the pain or not play at all. You have to learn to shorten your stride and that is not always the easiest thing to do.

If your game is speed then you are dead meat. Maybe Baldelli could learn another position but that does not fill our need does it?

Tampa has some talent down on the farm but you have top know how to use it before it is of any value.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 4, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

richbrave Which part of Richmond are you in?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 4, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

richbrave Remember seeing Dale Murphy when he was a catcher and he used to throw those balls into centerfield?

Yep, Seen a lot of good ball players come thru here, I go back to the old Parker Field days too.

By [/\][][][]Berigan[][][][/\]

November 4, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Tyler,

Thanks for the link to elismlbrumors.com ! Always glad to find more rumor info!

By [/\][][][]Berigan[][][][/\]

November 4, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

CC Rider,

I’d be all for giving a young organizational guy a chance to win the job in center! And you are right about being able to pitch up any old fill in guy later if someone starts really slow.

The bar is set low, as far as what we expect from a CF, at least offensively. .222. Lillibridge or Schafer can likely do that, right????

I mentioned before, when was the last rookie to basically be told, this is your job to lose? Seems some in the organization fear doing this. They’d rather have a 35 year old who has a .252 lifetime average there, than take a “risk” with a braves rookie! Makes no sense.

By LT (double A blogger)

November 4, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

CC Rider I totally agree with you. My thoughts are that as long as they can play an adequate defensive CF, i.e. they being Schaffer or Lillibridge, put them in there. Texeria will already be picking up AJ’s offense. I’m betting Scaffer or Lillibridge could even pick up AJ’s offense from last year. Maybe not the HR’s but how many of AJ’s HR’s from last year were game changing? I can’t remember AJ doing much of anything other than p** me off last year.

I’d really like to see one more starter added. Also, is there any chance the Braves ink Texeria long term prior to free agency? If it goes to free agency, I really think the odds get long for Tex to remain a Brave.

By Steamboat

November 4, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

when was the last rookie to basically be told, this is your job to lose?

Berigan, last time I can remember the Braves handing a job to a rookie was Thorman in ‘07… and it blew up in our face. I like bringing on the young guys, but until a guy has played half a season or so, you really don’t know, do you?

That’s the problem with waiting until spring training to decide if Lillibridge or Schaffer can play CF in the majors; by then, the best options will be gone and any dealing done in late March will be out of desperation. Braves’ brass needs to decide during the winter if we can fill the position from within. I hope (and think) we can.

By Curious

November 4, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Actually, you have some good lines and a sense of humor. And an IQ above room temperature. Stay around and let�s play.

Blob - Hot room or cold? Well Okay then, since you are being so nice - but you never answered my most serious question about the McQueen movie. Stunt double? More questions - did you really freeze at the end? Where did they take you, Antarctica? What is a blob’s IQ? Will there be a sequel? Will Sylvester Stalone be in it? Does your keyboard have green slime all over it? Sorry, maybe we just say green stuff. Better? Did you absorb the Blogmeister fellow for picking on me and being so mean? Does he have a sense of humor? He suggested changing my name. Does Bi-curious mean, if you can’t get it free you buy it? Maybe means able to type with either hand? Should I change my name to something like, Bravolicious? BravAdo? Bravolocity? BraveDave? Can a blogger be banned for being curious about blobs and bullies and other things? As you see I have many good questions.

You have a lot of answering to do Mr. Blob.

Sincerely, Curious.

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

GIL:

Midlothian.

Sure do remember Murph throwing balls - all over the place. LaRussa, Cito Gaston, Tommy Aaron, Bobby Cox. “Scraps” Courtney, George Beall and so many others. I sent Beech a card. Have you heard is he’s recovered or not?? If both of us are still sucking air, I’ll meet you at the park before a game in ‘08. Keep bloggin.” Keep in touch.

By BraveLard

November 4, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Curious Do not say a little in many words, but a great deal in a few. Pythagorous

PS You will have to get one of the low-IQ, mouth-breathers to answer your questions. I don’t waste my time with crap like that.

By Marty

November 4, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Rocco Baldelli is garbage right now. Might he turn out to be decent one day? Sure, it’s possible. Is it worth giving up any real prospects or any significant amount of money on that chance? Probably not.

By Random

November 4, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Curious — Sorry, my bad — I stand corrected: youwent nite-nite, unapologetic and obtuse. **8-) And no again, I’m not Jared — he knows more baseball than I do,

My name is D_ R___, and the name of my name is Random. The name of my name’s name is Secret. ;-> Anyway, thanks for the clarifications — I’ll keep your playfulness in mind.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 4, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

I’m not worried about the CF situation. The Braves have it covered. Plan A: trade for Coco Crisp. Plan B: Brent Lillibridge. Plan C: Jordan Schafer. Plan D: Gregor Blanco. Plan E: Gorkys Hernandez. It’s all good planning.

By BlogLard

November 4, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

My name is D_ R___, and the name of my name is Random. The name of my name�s name is Secret. ;-> Anyway, thanks for the clarifications

“The more you explain it, the less I understand it.” Mark Twain

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 4, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

richbrave Cool, I lived in Chester until about 5 years ago. My older brother still lives off Midlothain Pike

By Random

November 4, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

BlogLard — I’m not sure I understand it either, but I like the sound of it. It’s from John Crowley’s The Deep.

PS: thanks for not ripping me a new one for deeming it worthy to be shared.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 4, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

richbrave Cool, I lived in Chester until about 5 years ago. My brother lives off Midlotihian Pike near the Costco. We will get together next spring for sure.

By Curious

November 4, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

My name is D_ R___, and the name of my name is Random. The name of my name�s name is Secret.

Dr. RanDom You are a secret Doctor? Wow!!!! Dr. Ran Dom. I like it. By the way Dr. Dom, do you have a brother named Con and a sis named Free? Dog named Star? Uncle named Bore?

BraveLard - who asked you? Haven’t you been absorbed by my friend Blob? How can you talk from in there? Did he use your line, “C’mon!! Get in my belly” when he ate you? Serves you right, you have a foul temper and frequent flatulence. Here�s your picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fat_bastard.jpeg#filelinks

By Shaun

November 4, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Overlord said, “Griffey is a risk, but so is chipper. Glavine just isnt the answer to our pitching problems.”

Where’s Griffey going to play? He isn’t a centerfielder anymore. And apparently you are unaware the Braves finished third in the league in fewest runs allowed. Glavine can solidify the third or fourth spot to ensure the Braves don’t drop off.

By Ron

November 4, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

I have not been on here much but I still read though!!! But anyway, me and this other dude has a web site where we are about to pick the teams that we want for mock GM!!! You can be the GM of any team in the majors!!! We are trying to make this game as realistic as we can possibly make it!!! We need more members to participate!!! We just started this web site a few days ago!!! We only have three members so far!!! The web site is http://baseballnerds.proboards79.com/index.cgi

Just join the forum, and in a day or so you can pick a team!!! We are trying to make this a fun game!!!

By Shaun

November 4, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Has Shaun been tutoring you in the fine art of obscure and meaningless math?

This is funny, Lew, because no one brings up the most meaningless stats—OBP, SLG, K rate, etc.—as much as me. And there are plenty on here that bring up more meaningless stats or stats that don’t really tell us too much than me—RBI, R, “clutch” , AVG. You need to be in comedy. Surely you aren’t serious. Either that or you are just so angry that someone has discovered long before you that AVG/OBP/SLG and adjusting for contexts are telling and meaningful than AVG/HR/RBI or ignoring context.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 4, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

journalist has been away for a time. and now jimmy smith’s name is coming up again in the blog.

there has been speculation today as to the whereabouts of this journalist.

in all candor, jimmy smith lost interest in blogging here for a time. not for the boorish behavior of the stinky blogger this time, but still for boorish behavior.

journalist reads the blog daily for a baseball fix - but journalist feels no urge to contribute right now.

and here is the reason why: journalist has lost some respect for our leader after the uncalled for and rather harsh treatment of journalist bob.

picking on each other here can be fun and jimmy smith has been known to pick on dob and other bloggers at times - but picking on bob right now is in poor taste and shows poor judgment. even the sja knows that.

so many things are going on in bob’s personal life right now - and this blog has proved a refreshing diversion for our friend.

bob has told us as much.

the rebuke was mean-spirited and not appreciated by jimmy smith nor by others who made a brief comment to that effect or who merely ceased to participate here.

jimmy smith is not seeking anything here - jimmy smith suggested dob offer an apology to journalist bob awhile back but none was forthcoming.

to each his own and to the blogmaster goes the power to run the blog as dob sees fit.

can make it with or without jimmy smith and the others.

bad choice of targets on a grumpy day perhaps - or maybe a character flaw has evidenced itself.

can rebuke this journalist again or can “man up” as rr would say and consider if maybe the treatment of bob was unnecessarily harsh at a time bob deserves better.

there, it has been said.

oh, the humanity! sure to be deleted again. twice in a row?

By TheSouthernJackAss

November 4, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss stands behind the esteemed journalist’s comments…even though jimmy smith is well capable of standing alone…

By Stinky

November 4, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

I hear violins.

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Scoots, wouldn’t you rather have, say, Crisp than Baldelli, given Baldelli’s injury history, length of contract commitment, etc? And we know Crisp is imminently available. Not saying he’s my first choice, but I’d sure have him ahead of Baldelli. Braves need a guy they can count on playing every day….

Just got back from the heartland. We’re now officially in an alternate universe: Kansas is ranked fourth in the BCS standings, fifth in AP poll. Folks, I’m as astounded as any of you. But man, if you guys could have experienced that vibe yesterday on homecoming in Lawrence, seen all the alums so proud, FINALLY, of the football team. It was pretty cool, even for a jaded sportswriter to witness….

I took Marta back from the airport, and at 2:30 p.m. there were at least a dozen Falcons and a handful of 49ers fans getting ON the train at the Five Points stop. I’ve scratched my head over that one since then. I mean, it wasn’t even halftime yet, the score was close, there were plenty of tickets available and these folks, most of them middle-aged, one with his son, were getting ON the train and headed north toward Buckhead.

Hey, maybe they just like seeing a half of something. Far be it from me….

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

Shaun, agreed on Griffey. Just don’t understand why several folks here are so keen on bringing aboard yet another veteran who’s history says it’s a good bet he won’t be available for about half the games….

Jimmy, respect your opinions and all, but I don’t even remember exactly what was said to Bob by me, honestly. And frankly, I try my hardest, and spend way, waaaay too many hours on this blog cleaning up comments, many directed at you, to get too caught up in people’s personal lives and have to worry about what can and can’t be said, who might be offended by honest opinion. If someone doesn’t know that what’s said here is not personal (since we don’t know each other, haven’t met each other in most cases, and are constantly riding, kidding and generally having fun talking trash with one another), well, I don’t know what to tell you.

Blog here if you’d like. We enjoy the input. But nobody’s going to personally invite you back or try to soothe hurt feelings. Gimme a break with that. I put a lot into this thing, trying to make it cool and enjoyable for as many people as possible. Others don’t ask for special consideration, don’t expect it, because they understand the nature of this thing.

If that’s not good enough for you, well, sorry about that.

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Lew remind me this week (send me an e-mail) and we’ll see about getting the picture to Skip before Christmas, OK? Can’t make promises, because like I said, I never see him in offseason. But maybe we can work something out, at least get it to him through the Braves if nothing else?

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

Johnny In-Sane, I can’t see any scenario in which Andruw comes back to Braves on a one-year contract. But again, stranger things have happened. Like KU, OU and Mizzou being 4-5-6 in the BCS standings, particularly the KU and Mizzou parts.

But no, I don’t think Andruw will be back. Can’t see it happening at all.

And someone asked about Dotel — no, I don’t think it’d be wise to pick up that option, not wise at all. If no one wants him as a closer (and if you check his recent numbers, why would they?) at $5.5 mill, you’re stuck with him. So no, not wise.

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

You guys want an idea of how popular Francoeur is in Atlanta? Check the most popular stories on AJC.com right now: “New father-in-law fond of Francoeur” is No. 1, and “Francoeur ties the knot” is No. 3.

Hey, the kid’s got legions of followers. What can you say?

By TheSouthernJackAss

November 4, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

Well that just about says it all…

By journalist jimmy smith

November 4, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

trying to put it back on jimmy smith. it has nothing to do with jimmy smith.

yep, character flaw pretty well covers it.

By St!nky

November 4, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

DOB just who the hell is “we”? (You) made the despicable comments!

By BraveLard

November 4, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

Curious I would like to take you seriously but to do so would be an affront to your “intelligence”. George Bernard Shaw (I think). And my flatulence is preferable to your breath.

By bravesfan

November 4, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

So DOB what have you heard about Alexei Ramirez?

By BraveLard

November 4, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

“Stinky” and “SJA” in lockstep. Oh the humanity. jjs may have an argument, but the two of you in it does not make it stronger.

By Jared

November 4, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

I think I might have been the only person on this blog last year opposed to trading Saltalamacchia, Escobar and Davies for Baldelli. Heck some here even said include James if needed to make it happen.

I feel so vindicated.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

November 4, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

DOB If you don’t know then there is nothing anyone else can say. There are many things that have made this an enjoyable meeting place for Braves fans. Not in the least is the personalities of its denizens.

Many of us do not agree on all topics but we can agree to disagree. The esteemed jimmy smith is not looking for anything or recognition from you for himself, just a little empathy for a friend.

Sometimes it is not what is said but how it is presented.

By Stinky

November 4, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

BraveLard, St!nky is in goosestep with SJA, not Stinky. Cats are not playing with dogs, it’s not snowing in November in Georgia. The world isn’t coming to an end.

Nice handle.

By TheSouthernJackAss

November 4, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

BraveLard…unlike you, Journalist Bob is a friend…Most will recall that TheSouthernJackAss was the first to display his outrage at the untimely, and cowardly comments made by DOB to Bob…DOB and his little condescending attitude may play well with most of you sheep…but that type of classless behavior aimed at a friend will not go unaddressed by TheJackAss…DOB, in spite of his feelings of self-worth, is merely a single participant in this blog…any A$sClown with half a wit could do his job just as well as he…now DOB claims to not remember what he said, and all…Pathetic!…

…and BraveLard…what concern was any of this of yours?…

TheSouthernJackAss has nothing else to say…good luck to DOB and all his new intelligent friends…

By The Grinch

November 4, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Morning, all. DOB, the reaction you just gave Jimmy is one I’ve gotten from you myself and I understand where you’re coming from. You put a lot of time and energy above and beyond the call of duty into this job, and it’s almost always appreciated. However, what you said the other night was unwarranted and innapropriate, and aimed at a man both too proud and decent to say anything about it. I keep in regular touch with about a dozen of the folks on this blog via e-mail, and you’re in danger of losing about seven of the best there are here by your insensitivity and inability to admit you might have spoken in haste in the wee hours of a long day and hope there aren’t any hard feelings. It wouldn’t take much, and without it the quality of the blog denizens that remain would likely take a very notieable drop. Just my two cents.

By BraveLard

November 4, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this

“A man’s character can be learned from the adjectives, AND OTHER TERMS OF REFERENCE(A$$ Clowns?,)he habitually uses in his writings.” Mark Twain

And thank you for your “compliment” on my handle, STINKY.

By JJMB

November 4, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

*You guys want an idea of how popular Francoeur is in Atlanta? Check the most popular stories on AJC.com right now: �New father-in-law fond of Francoeur� is No. 1, and �Francoeur ties the knot� is No. 3.

Hey, the kid�s got legions of followers. What can you say?*

This is what I say. I clicked on the Francoeur link to see what kind of amazing piece of tail a 23yo soon to be multimillionare throws away future amazing tail for. Francoeur is an idiot.

By TennesseePaul

November 4, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Sheeeeesh. I’m having nightmares now. Tossing and turning all night with a very disturbing dream. Frank Wren was really a woman named “Frankie” and she traded Francoeur for 3 Rookie ball pitching prospects. Horible dream. I kept telling myself in the dream that it was merely a dream, then I’d convince myself that, while I was sleeping and dreaming this, it was in fact true and when I wake up the Braves will have no outfield and a ton of rookie ball players.

These winter meetings can’t come soon enough.

By TheSouthernJackAss

November 4, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

If one must be coaxed into offering an apology…what’s the point?

By JJMB

November 4, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

DOB has already backed down, you guys. Don’t rub his nose in it.

By N8

November 4, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

WOW!

Jackass & JJS might wanna take a side-step to the left (or the right), and quick, because it appears as though the BIG can of Milwaukee’s Best might come out of the sky and land on your head. :-)

Yesterday, I remarked that it appeared as though the blog was being taken over by 9 year old boys (due to name calling like MY 9 year old does with his buddies).

Today it appears as though the 7th grade football team’s cheerleaders have taken over.

YIKES.

Keep in mind, I have NO IDEA what DOB comments you guys are talking about, and I personally have nothing against either of you (Jackass & JJS), I also no NOTHING of Bob’s “personal life”, so I cannont (and WOULD NOT) comment on anything of a personal level on this blog to begin with.

However, I will take part in the occasional ribbing of “friends” (like DOB said: “…since we don�t know each other, haven�t met each other in most cases…”), the way that guys do (like calling you guys Jr. High girls).

Hell for all I know, Shaun is some SUPER HOT 23 year old stripper with fake ta-ta’s, that just likes to rattle off baseball numbers.

Truth is NONE OF US no much about anybody, other than the people we have emailed personally to.

Plain and simple people. If you like being here….STAY.

If you like being here, but hate DOB….STAY and spar with the blogmaster (more entertainment for me, when people do that).

If you like DOB and the blog in general, but a few people “ruin” it for you…..STAY and just scroll past the posts of the people you don’t like.

If you DON’T like it here at all, WHY THE F* am I typing to you? LEAVE!!

Man up people. This isn’t a popularity contest. This isn’t a place to make friends (if you are so lucky to do so GOOD FOR YOU). This isn’t a place to look for respect from those who will NEVER give it to you.

IT’S A BLOG The definition of a blog, you may ask?

BLOG:

A frequently updated journal or diary usually, often hosted by a third party.

Hmmm. Nowhere in there did it say that the host (or “third party”), has to be nice to everybody, or kiss peoples azzes into coming back. If I were the host those kind of people would be the exact people that I would WANT TO LEAVE.

Anyhow. Nothing personal to you guys. Just tired of reading about peoples feelings getting “hurt” on the blog. Find a friend. Get a date. Call your mom. ANYTHING but whining, will do.

L8r.

By Random

November 4, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

Hey,youse guys!!! (SJA/jjs)

Ya gotta calm down.

Bob, Journalist, in response to another blogger, started waxing political, and implied that certain positions on certain red-hot political hot button issues were evil. Definitely INAPP for this kind of blog.

DOB’s remonstration was assuredly sarcastic, perhaps even bitingly so, but in no way was it cowardly. It should have been water off a Bob’s back.

It may be that there’re some personal problems in some private lives that cause y’all to perceive DOB’s sarcasm as harsher than usual — it didn’t seem that way to me. And I don’t think you can reasonably expect anyone not privy to this prsonal, private info to share your perspective.

Personally, I’m sad to see you go — I’ve had a bit of fun with B, J before, and SJA’s input is often worthwhile — but its your choice.

Don’t let the door hit you …

By Lew

November 4, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, did it ever occur to you I make comments like that because I love to see you get all indignant and huffy?

By Baseball Fanatic (Go Braves!)

November 4, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

I agree 100% with you, N8.

By 90210

November 4, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

Just checking in and saw that you all are doing a remake of a 90210 episode very dear to my heart:

Donna Martin Graduates! Donna Martin Graduates! Donna Martin Graduates! Donna Martin Graduates! Donna Martin Graduates! Donna Martin Graduates!

That’s what you all sound like. For crying out loud, Grinch has even broken out the blond afro to play the role of Steve Sanders. Who knew that Grinch would eventually dig deep into his inner Ian Ziering?

By bwash21

November 4, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

Personally, I hope we never trade Francoeur for anyone. He’s one of those guys to me that every organization would drool over. Moreover, he’s an Atlanta kid which makes it even more sweet that he’s a Brave. What more could you ask from the kid? He’s played about 390 games in a row, improved his BA by 33 pts, his OBP by 45 points, and while he dropped by 10 HR’s this year, his RBI totals actually increased by 2 over last year. His strikeout rate improved just a bit and his walk total nearly doubled. Defensively, his fielding percentage improved reducing his errors from 9 to 5 this year, and he even had 6 more assists over 2006 with less teams running on his arm. You gotta be proud of the kid (only 23 yrs old), he works on his game, he’s coachable (not Andruw), and is a great teammate who is first to congratulate others. I can’t imagine seeing him play for another team the next 15 yrs. He has the potential to be one of the all-time great Braves players.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 4, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

now, bloggers … don’t get all huffy. journalist is almost out the door.

only came back today because others were asking about jimmy smith.

jimmy smith must admit curiosity at those who slobber over dob so. well, get your brownie points while you can - doesn’t make anything right. only shows immaturity.

at least n8 has the gumption to speak up using his own handle. not especially deep thinking but refreshing candor. like n8 says, he knows nothing - and it shows.

still, journalist is not seeking to make enemies. only to defend the honor of a fine man who is too much a gentleman to make a fuss.

selah.

By ssiscribe

November 4, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

The Scribe apparently has missed something, because I’ve been away for a couple of days, really haven’t paid too close attention to things recently, and now I see all of this.

Don’t know what to say, except I would hope this can be handled the way it should be handled. Most of us on here, most certainly including myself, do deserve the fastball up and in from time to time. No problem with that at all. But Bob, Journalist? That puzzles me.

I guess I need to do some research to read what was written, and the response to that post, before I post an opinion.

It is my hope, as I go to try and find the post/response in question, that we can deal with this and move ahead. But if folks like Grinch and JJS are talking about it in the tone and manner I see above, then methinks something is amiss.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Ron

November 4, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

Jered I thought that it was a bad idea to even think about trading for Baldelli last year also!!! DOB even thought that it would be good to make that trade last year!!! I said he would be hurt in 07 and guess what he was hurt!!! I was not surprised!!! Most on here thought that it would be a great idea to have traded for him!!!

By Brenda Lee

November 4, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, so sorry That I was such a fool I didn’t know Blogging could be so cruel Oh, oh, oh, oh Uh-oh Oh, yes

Will that do?

By Ronald Reagan

November 4, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

When the air traffic controllers went on strike, I fired them without apology or remorse. Being The President means never having to say sorry. Don’t let the door hit your keisters or enormous egos on the way out the door. Y’all bruise far too easily.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

N8 Long time, no taunting and teasing!!

I have had a darn hard time committing myself to the blog in recent weeks, so it is my fault.

These dog days between the WS and the winter meetings can be brutal. We(collectively) seem to want to dream up a million moves the Braves could make, but in the end, it is just an exercise, mostly in futility, I dare say.

It has been sad not being able to rib you any though!!

Hope all is well.

I wonder if Shaun really is a 23 yr old hottie????? That is one scary thought.

BTW, how about Prado, Thorman and Cormier for Carl Crawford???

And can someone enlighten me on Alexei Ramirez? I get the Cuban defector part, and I think I read he is a 26 year old SS or 2B. Any more particulars???

By doc

November 4, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

why be on a blog if you can throw insults and then turn around and be hurt if one is thrown back at you? come on guys get real. there is so little in life that should be taken personal and certainly not something on a blog of all things. some people might have gotten into taking either this forum or themselves waaay too serious and might need to step back and take a look in the mirror before they say someone else is way off base and go back and look at some of their own trash or thoughts that may have been meant in fun but was it really or was there a bit of “mean” to it? it also suggests maybe some of the slop needs to be toned down a bit if some of the more notoriously vulgar or combative of the collection here have to come out and suggest that dob has it in for them or someone else. it is like they are just waiting and trying to have something done to them so they can whine and cry foul about it. dont get me wrong some the “journalists” et al. are special people that i laugh out loud with their comments but at times think are waaay overboard in the mean spirited nature of to reflcet, that is their stuff. look, the old saying if you cant take the heat of the kitchen of a journalist it might be time to try another occupation, handle or diversion and i say it respectfully as your skin might be too thin for that undertaking.

dob thinks for the heads up on a flick to watch, talk to me was excellent.

By handbasket

November 4, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

is the world really going to hell inside of me? all because someone was asked for the umpteenth time to stop posting his political rants?

By Tyler

November 4, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

DOB has a point, JJS has his points, we all have our points and sides. Maybe DOB was harsh, maybe not. I don’t remember what was said. All I can offer is that this is a blog-as N8 said. If anyone is going to be offended by what somebody says that they don’t really even know, then that is a little immature. JJS, you can call N8 immature, but in reality it is immature to take something to heart over a blog.

By Peyton Place

November 4, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

Will the horse farmer stop peddling his night soil?

Will the sob sister ever stop fishing for compassion?

Will Nathan ever stop those 7th grade bullies from kicking sand in his face?

Will David O’Brien succumb in to the pressure of green public opinion?

Tune in tomorrow to… As the Stomach Turns!

By ssiscribe

November 4, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

My two cents:

What Bob posted really has no business on a baseball blog, but it’s nothing that warranted the blunt response from DOB. Bob posts like that; it is what it is.

So, too, is DOB’s response. It is what it is, even if I don’t agree with it. Saying you don’t remember the response, though, is weak, in my opinion. If you don’t remember what you posted and it caused so many folks to raise a question, then maybe look it up and refresh your memory?

Look, everybody here outta damn well realize DOB doesn’t have to do what he does. And yes, DOB, it probably was written off the cuff in the midst of you doing a bunch of other things. And yes, certainly it wasn’t personal at all, because that is the nature of the blog. And you know what they say: if you can’t take the heat, get outta kitchen. I’m cool with all of that.

For what it’s worth, I thought it was harsh. But again, it is what it is. Not trying to change anybody’s mind or force apologizes or keep anybody from leaving.

The Scribe is here to talk baseball and other stuff. I just think, after reading the post/response to post, that Bob deserved a little better.

—30—

By Tyler

November 4, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

Wayne-Alexei Ramirez is primarily a CF an SS, but has played some 2B as well. He is said to be further along than Escobar was when he came over. We’ll see how good he really is, but I’ve only heard good things about him.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t know what was said by my friend Bob, Journalist. Nor do I know what DOB responded with.

I do know one thing. A big frickin blockbuster trade would sure do a world of good for the blog right about now.

C’mon Frank, pull one off for the good of the blog!!

By The Grinch

November 4, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

Hey, now; Ian Ziering was a pimp.

JJMB, I sat through the Francour show during several rain delays; he’s been after that girl since they were in kindergarden. At least he knows she’s not after him for his money. Probably not a bad move.

Here’s the thing about the possibillity of Shaun being a 23-year old hottie; you’d have to watch baseball with her/him and put up with his #@%&-ing stilted, emotionless, robotic, perpetually antagonistic, argumentative nonsense about a sport you love during every game you watched. No chick is hot enough to go through that for.

By journalist jimmy smith

November 4, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

journalist has no fight with doc. have always enjoyed the banter. e.e. cummings, right?

and while it is true that this journalist can dish it out with some relish, it is not this journalist that is hurt and embarrassed.

please don’t feel jimmy smith is feeling sorry for jimmy smith. that is not so, you old fart :-) see, journalist still has some fight left.

jimmy smith cannot think of an unkind post from journalist bob. if one was posted, jimmy smith must have missed it.

yeah, can say journalist is thin skinned if that is the prevailing thought and jimmy smith will just let others think what they wish.

the fact remains that this is not about jimmy smith - nor is it about jackass - or grinch - or the lady - or savnannah - or hk - or … the list continues.

everyone can have an opinion. seems that this journalist’s opinion means a door is supposed to brush journalist on the way out.

jimmy smith leaves with no animosity - only profound disappointment.

By blogger hiding under fake name

November 4, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

ssiscribe—no need trying to find the offensive comments aimed at Bob by O’Brien—they were deleted soon after the outrage commenced—as if it’s any of your business anyhow!

By Rain Man

November 4, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

Shaun is a very good driver.

By ssiscribe

November 4, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

One last comment on all of this: I’ll never look at Shaun’s statistical-driven posts the same again.

N8, that may be the funniest thing I’ve read in the two years I’ve been on the blog. Unbelievable. Like I always say, you try to take a negative situation and find a positive result of it. Guess for now, this will do.

Back to the Hawks, who are winning. The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Lew

November 4, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

I’d say that there has been more than enough overreaction to go around to all who have participated on both sides of the equation. It is what it is, people and nothing more. We’ve all had our own moments in the sun making fools of ourselves and we’ve all had others make fools of themselves in relation to us, as well. Everyone has made their feelings known. Bob has more important things to deal with and whether or not David apologizes in a manner that pleases everyone won’t help Bob’s true problems. We could all be accused of insensitivity from time to time. Time to get over it all and move on. Go eat some pie-sugar free if you’re diabetic.

By ssiscribe

November 4, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

*By blogger hiding under fake name

November 4, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

ssiscribe�no need trying to find the offensive comments aimed at Bob by O�Brien�they were deleted soon after the outrage commenced�as if it�s any of your business anyhow!*

Ummm, blogger hiding under fake name, I decided to make it my business, and I found the comments in question, and I posted my opinion on the situation above.

So guess what, partner? It is my business, I made it my business, and I’ve spoken all I’ll speak on the subject. I don’t think you need to tell me what I “need” to be doing or not doing.

I’ve had enough of this tonight. Somebody ring me when there’s some baseball to talk about …

—30—

By doc

November 4, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

check it out posted about october 28, 6:09 if you want. was it harsh maybe but no more harsh than most throw out there and was to redeliver the guidelines. maybe the wrong individual, maybe not considering the day jujst dont know and what was going on, cant say. i’ll say yes, it was harsh but this is the big leagues guys. if you want soft then go to the blog, social butterfly as it might be more to your liking though i will miss discussing pies and the possibility of getting toemain from it. look guys, lighten up and get over it.

By Itzhak Perlman

November 4, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

I’m warming up as I type.

By doc

November 4, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

jjs, love your fight bro and with greatest respect, now help resolve this and get j bob back on the blog and be part of the solution as they say.

By semiballcoach

November 4, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

it would be great if no one would bid on arod and andruw at those insane prices…but then the players would accuse the owners of collusion

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

“Ian Ziering was a pimp” and “Possibility of Shaun being a 23-year-old hottie….” Now THAT is good stuff. Bravo, Green One….

Scribe, not to carry this to its illogical extreme, but I don’t know what comments you’re talking about being deleted soon after they were posted. Honestly, I don’t.

Not saying it didn’t happen, but are you sure about that? I really don’t remember that. In fact, I remember being surprised that he and a few others were so riled up by the same type of retort I’ve had for countless others. And I seem to remember feeling no need to delete anything….

JJS: Seriously, is this such an important issue to you at this juncture? If so, I envy you for having no bigger matters to occupy your time with. But you’re not going to accomplish what you’re trying to accomplish. Sorry, but it ain’t happening.

By N8

November 4, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

“…like n8 says, he knows nothing - and it shows.”

I’ll tel you what I DO know. I know when the rest of the blog is gonna mock me for whining about my leotard being too tight. As I referenced before, I surely know when to get the hell out of the way of the big can O-beer, that falls on men NOT acting like men.

Somehow I manage to avoid letting that hit me.

I said it was nothing personal (and it’s not), YOU are the one who has now decided to make it personal by commenting on what I know or don’t know. Whew! Just about got hit by that one. Good thing I just realized I was beginning to sound like a 10 year old girl.

Strange how in the last half hour, I’ve have more people agree with my post, huh?

DOB You’re the best. :-)

Hell, if people who don’t start sh!t with you are accused of kissing your azz, I figure I might as well make it obvious.

Wayne

“Hope all is well.”

Very much so. (if you can’t tell by me sticking my nose where it probably doesn’t belong this evening)

Maybe I’m just upset at my Chiefs blowing that game against the Packers today. LOL!

I agree, some sort of “transaction” would take this blog back where it needs to go…..baseball.

ssiscribe

Well said at 9:18. Good job.

Peyton Place

“Will Nathan ever stop those 7th grade bullies from kicking sand in his face?”

Actually I was pretty “cool” in 7th grade. The bullies (for lack of a better word), didn’t begin until HS. But I got them all back, by hittin’ it with their girlfriends in my 20’s. As it turns out, HS “jocks” aren’t quite as cool in their 20’s, as the guy slinging the guitar and singing when their women are drunk and “looking for action”. :-)

But thanx for looking out for me.

By hypocrite finder

November 4, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

ssiscribe you’re the same hypocrite that got all bent out of shape over that little trucker joke a few days ago, so don’t be telling me anything! Got it partner? Go work on your resume!

By ssiscribe

November 4, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

David: I’m not the one who said the posts were deleted. “blogger hiding under fake name” posted at 9:33 p.m. that it was deleted.

For the record, it wasn’t me who posted that. I merely was responding to whoever “blogger hiding under fake name” is and their assertion of what I needed to do or not do. Scroll back to 9:33 p.m. and you’ll see it’s not me; I merely copied and pasted the post by “blogger hiding under fake name” in my 9:42 p.m. response.

OK, Hawks just lost. I’ve got laundry to fold and sleep to catch up on, so off I go. Everyone enjoy your evening. Let’s move forward, people.

Pie for all.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By richbrave

November 4, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

TWASH Take on Francouer was rightous - dude. Another Joe Adcock with Eddie Mathews hitting ability. He should be here for the long haul. If he really gets his act together, he might take over for Chipper.

By Doobie Brother

November 4, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Nathan, We had a song about people with your brand of romantic exploits: What a Fool Believes!

By ssiscribe

November 4, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

*By hypocrite finder

November 4, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

ssiscribe you�re the same hypocrite that got all bent out of shape over that little trucker joke a few days ago, so don�t be telling me anything! Got it partner? Go work on your resume!*

10-4, good buddy.

—30—

By The Grinch

November 4, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

N8, I didn’t agree with your post. But it’s certainly your right to post it.

Enough drama, though; anyone bring a deck of cards?

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Ron, I admit I thought a Baldelli trade made sense a year ago. Glad they didn’t take my advice….

Scribe, sorry about the confusion. I see what you mean. No worries….

All others concerned about this highly important matter: I Just went back and looked at it. On the October 28 blog that’s still posted on our site. It was during the World Series.

And it wasn’t deleted. At least not my comments, nor the second posting of the comments from Bob that I found objectionable and was responding to.

Repeat, comments were not deleted. Still there. And it wasn’t one-half as harsh as at least 10 other things said that day, most of them directed at me. Which is fine. I can handle it.

And I’ll stand by the point I made — that this was and is no place for the comments he made (more than once) about lifestyle choices and other socio-political opinions.

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Grinch, maybe we need to come up with a drinking game to liven things up on the blog! Any ideas? And no, I won’t be drinking any Old Smuggler. I’ll stick with my usual, thank you very much.

By [/\][][][]Berigan[][][][/\]

November 4, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith,

Have always enjoyed your presence here, hope things will cool down in the future, and you will be back!!! I missed all the comments that apparently were deleted…

I do feel the need to add this though for those who do not know. Journalist Bob did mention what was going on in his life here several weeks back….so I don’t feel like I am telling something that should not be mentioned again. His wife has Cancer, and it sounded like it was in several places in her body. Reading that, and knowing what my Dad and I went thru when my Mom had a diagnosis like that, I think folks on a stupid baseball blog should go out of their way to cut Bob some slack for any political comments he made, even though I doubt he would ask for it. I sure see politcal comments mades here from time to time that don’t get commented on, or cancelled…..

By N8

November 4, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

ssiscribe*

“One last comment on all of this: I�ll never look at Shaun�s statistical-driven posts the same again…..N8, that may be the funniest thing I�ve read in the two years I�ve been on the blog. Unbelievable. Like I always say, you try to take a negative situation and find a positive result of it. Guess for now, this will do.”

Glad I could help my man. :-)

Not sure why I used Shaun’s name. Could’ve been Lew. But anybody with a reasonable level of common sense, (who have been to Lew’s website), would know that a stripper wouldn’t have that much talent. LOL!

I just found it amusing that instead of having some skank whisper something she doesn’t mean in your ear, while tipping her. That it would be MUCH more funny to have her rattle off Cal Ripken’s career OPS.

Now THAT would be hot.

By Billy Joe Royal

November 4, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Melodrama’s so much fun… In black and white for everyone to see!

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Well, I just had a chance to really go back and look at all (or almost all) of the posts over the last couple of days, and I gotta say: It was about as civil a discussion as we’ve had on here in a long, long time. In fact, today’s return to The Topic on a few folks’ minds really brought out the most animosity we’ve had on the blog in a few days.

Don’t know what that says, just pointing it out. Nice to see such a good vibe in the discourse for the past several days. It’s much appreciated, not having to have posts deleted because of 6th-grade insults.

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

At the half, Jazz 51, Lakers 46!

Go Jazz!

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

N8, good stuff today, my man. Made me smile.

By Overlord

November 4, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Once you have Griffey and Francouer, does it really matters who plays where? They arent willie mays, but they are good OF, very good as a matter of fact. Could you name more than 5 teams wouldnt love to have an OF trio of Diaz, Griffey, Francouer??? I doubt it.

As for Glavine……. Are you sure he will have a sub 4.00 ERA next year? I wouldnt bet on that. And i would recommend the same to you. Maybe he is worth the risk, but he aint money in the bank anymore.

By JJMB

November 4, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

Grinchy, I’m not saying she isn’t cute. She’s just not Manhattan/Hermosa/Huntington Beach cute. Frenchy would have had his pick of that bevy. Of course, he still will, only he’ll just be risking millions to do it now. I repeat, he’s an idiot.

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

Berigan, now that you’ve mentioned that, I know. But I’ll be honest: When I made the comments, I had either forgotten that point or wasn’t aware of it, can’t say which. Frankly, I don’t usually read the in-depth personal comments that bloggers make to other bloggers, just because it would take much of the day to do so while trying to also do the rest of my job when I’m on assignment.

Do I feel bad now, knowing that? Absolutely. But should I have known that at the time? Come on. You can’t possibly expect me to keep up with everyone’s personal lives on here. Again, that’s great that many of you do, that you’ve developed friendships with each other and that several of you e-mail and talk to each other away from the blog. But please, just don’t expect me or others to all be on the same page with you, to be aware of all that’s going on in people’s personal lives.

That’s tragic, about Bob’s wife. It really is. But please, if possible, try to separate my comments from that fact, because as I said, when I made the comment that fact was nowhere in my thought process. I simply was responding to the man’s post.

If that’s not acceptable, if some of you can’t understand where I’m coming from on that point, well, sorry folks, but it’s just the way it is.

By David O'Brien

November 4, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Overlord, but who replaces Griffey if he misses 70 games? Who’s your fourth outfield, who could well end up playing half the season or more in Junior’s stead?

By The Grinch

November 4, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Chris, how ‘bout every time someone mentions Baldelli or Crawford we do a shot? Naw, there’d be too many ambulance rides and stomach pumps. I know: every time someone says anything that gets misinterpreted as offensive (or is actually offensive and goes unnoticed) we do a shot with a beer chaser? Considering how much of that’s already gone on tonight, the law of averages suggests that from here on we could get by with just passing out with the room spinning like a ceiling fan on low. :-)

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Grinch, oh jeez, using those rules I think I’ll be going to sleep with one foot on the floor, everyday before noon. Assuming of course that I actually can make it to bed from the bathroom floor!

Maybe your original idea of cards is better. My liver would like to second that motion. Shall we go to a vote?

By Wayne in Utah

November 4, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

Guys, can we get off the Ken Griffey talk. Dude is getting old, and is more brittle than Hoss. Can you imagine the ulcers in Bravesland just waiting to see when Junior was going down for the year???

Getting TG back is bad enough (bad in the fact that he is old). BUT, at least he will give us a legitimate #4/5 starter.

Another thought: I hate this change from daylight time back to standard time. The worse part was having to wake up last night at 2am to change all the clocks around here. What a drag!

Nite all!

By journalist jimmy smith

November 4, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith will never have the last word. that is not how it works here and jimmy smith knows that.

at this point journalist is embarrassed for dob.

some stand tall and some not at all.

By Greg in TN

November 4, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

Evening folks…

Spent much of the evening tonight trying to catch up on events on the ‘ol blog. It’s unfortunate to see discord from so many I have respect for and the only comment I will make is that I do hope everyone will be able to move on from here.

Joe T didn’t stay unemployed for very long, now he’s a Dodger. I honestly don’t know how to think about that just yet especially. Had he gone out to LA to manage while the Braves were still in the west and while we were trotting out Russ Nixon and Bobby Wine as our managers, well suffice to say I would have had a meltdown of some type. As it is now, good luck to Joe. I have nothing but respect for the guy.

I’ll also be very interested in how Joe G handles the spotlight in the Bronx now. This is the same guy that didn’t see eye-to-eye with ownership in Miami. I keep thinking of Hank Steinbrenner and George sitting in the Yankee’s team offices down in Tampa and I keep thinking of Dr. Evil and Mini Me.

DOB, 76 points on Nebraska? Must have been some party going on in the wee hours of the morning in Lawrence yesterday. Sounds like a score more fitting for Allen Fieldhouse. I like Mangino though, he’s done much to build KU up since his arrival. Only thing that looks to stop these guys is if they jump to #2. Seems to be the kiss of death for everyone that has been ranked one notch under the top.

By Something ELSE to talk about...

November 4, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

And now for something ELSE to talk about. CLICK HERE!

By Greg in TN

November 4, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

One last thought before heading out to prepare for another Munnnday.

Forget about the trades, the signings, the one guy we really need to sign (with a nod to AT&T’s latest ad campaign) is….

Crawgriffpattercrisplincedelli

By Something ELSE to talk about...

November 4, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

CLICK HERE for pure amusement. Peter Moylan to have a movie made about him?…Is that Chuck James in a dress?!

By chrisklob

November 4, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

Greg, good evening. It will be interesting to see how Torre does in LA. He had a losing record as manager before he went to NY with their large payroll. He’ll have a lot of kids playing for him and I wonder just what the ownership has promised as far as payroll goes and who they are able to bring in. Dodgers haven’t been great for a looong time. Can he turn it around? New owners seem to be the meddlesome type. Read an article earlier tonight about them. If I can find it I’ll post it.

By Overlord

November 4, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

DOB

You could play harris in CF once a week to give Jr. a some rest and prevent injuries. Or play willie or any of the youngsters from AAA if Jr. goes down. But Jr. didnt missed many games last year. Maybe he found out how to stay away from DL. I would take the risk. If it goes OK, braves would be even better at the plate than last year. If things go wrong, you still can bring up a youngster or pick up somebody via trade, not the end of the world, specially since we played all of last year AJ and it would be easy to upgrade his performance from last year.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 5, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

I totally agree with N8’s 8:23 post. Well spoken my friend. Joe T. is a Dodger and I think it’s likely that Pay-Rod will end up in Dodgertown or Maybe with the WhiteSox. The general managers’ meetings start tomorrow and run through Thursday in Orlando , Florida (5-8 NOV). We shall see what transpires this week.

By Wayne in Utah

November 5, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

Overlord A couple of points that are contrary to your last post.

First, with the pickup of Tex, I don’t think the Braves are even remotely thinking about Junior. He is not the answer, even for a couple of years, if you are looking for a stop gap.

Though I am not a Crisp fan, CoCo would be a better option due to his youth, health history, and due to the fact that IF Lillibridge or Schafer DID impress enough to start in center, then Crisp would be a player you could bench as your 4th outfielder. Not so with Griffey. He might stifle a youngster’s opportunity.

Last point. Personally, and I think about 20+ folks on here would agree, when talking about 2008, even a mention of Willie Harris is a waste of breath. The last 3 months of the season, Willie showed his true colors. He is not a very good outfielder, has a weak arm, is fast, but not a good base stealer, and is not the solution, even in a backup role.

Besides, if ANY way possible, you don’t platoon or use a backup regularly at the centerfield position. I know there is probably the exception, but I can’t think of a successful team that uses 2 centerfields. (maybe Denver, because of injuries to Taveras)

I would sure like to hear more about this kid Alexei Ramirez. Someone earlier said he is a CF and a SS, who maybe could play second. Also, he supposedly is further developed that Escobar was when he arrived. At 26 yrs old, I would hope he was WELL advanced.

Just my 2 cents worth.

By Wayne in Utah

November 5, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

Coach I can’t remember, but did you chime in on the Francoeur for a stud pitcher discussion??

Would you move him for someone like Lincecum or Haren?

As much as I like Frenchy, I would pull the trigger, as a chance to get a potential #1 does not come along often.

Whaddya think?

By The Grinch

November 5, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this

Coach, it doesn’t surprise me you agree with that post. You couldn’t make a friend in a w******* with a suitcase full of $100 bills. But, I respect you still posting despite that. :-)

Dodger fans are gonna be dissapointed if they think Torre’s gonna come in and work any sort of technical magic to make them better. Torre’s got one strength and one strength only; he’s good at maintaining an even keel in the middle of a firestorm. That makes him similar to Bobby in that respect, and only one step above Grady Little (and two to three above Bobby at this point) in his X and O abilities. I. E., he’s average at best as a strategist. Take Jeter, A-rod, Matsui, Posada, etc. out of the lineup and it will become glaringly apparent.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

Overlord, disagree on Junior. So he stays relatively healthy one season and you assume that’s the new norm, at his age, rather than all the seasons he missed due to various injuries, most of them unrelated to the previous injuries? No, can’t buy that. And it isn’t nearly as easy to replace someone at midseason as you suggest. Nor do you play Willie Harris once a week to “prevent injuries” for Griffey. How in the world does sitting out a game or two a week prevent the variety of injuries he’s had, the torn hammies and the assorted injuries from running into walls, landing wrong on catches, or simply running? No, he’s fragile and you’d have to have another legit starter ready at all times. Not the answer, Junior. Not the answer at all….

Greg in Tn, Mangino certainly has built the program up, and the massive football-only strength center that’s going up on one side of the open end of the stadium, and raised practice field going up on the other side at that end of the stadium, is testament to the contributions the improved team is bringing in. Makes AD Lew Perkins look pretty wise for giving Mangino that big raise a lot of folks were critical of a year ago….

JJS, last word is yours. I’m done with the topic. Most others, I’m guessing, are also quite tired of it. But say whatever you please on the subject.

By Overlord

November 5, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah

I would have to agree with your points, i dont really care who plays in CF next season, that doesnt really worries me. I just hope braves dont go for some 10+ million man, cause we dont need that. If it is griffey, i wouldnt mind. Braves just need someone that can cover CF without many errs. Maybe you are right about harris. I think filling CF with a youngster would be better than what we had last year. And maybe even better than Harris. But im not sure if it would be correct to put pressure on those young guys just now. Maybe bringing Griffey for one year and then trading him once the youngsters are ready??? I wouldnt go for hunter nor any of the other stars out there. Crisp as you mentioned could be a good fit, but only if he comes cheap, very cheap…….say 5 million.

By The Grinch

November 5, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

By the way, coach; I agree with your earlier CF assesment. Not a big Crisp fan, but it wouldn’t hurt to give it a shot if it doesn’t compromise any other signings. I personally think Lillibrige will be the opening day CF, and I’ll be happy for it. Stupid to waste millions on some @$$-munch who isn’t likely better than who we already have playing for peanuts. PITCHING AND TEX INSTEAD.

By Overlord

November 5, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

There are player that have had many injuries and then keep away from DL. Jr. has played more than 100 games each of last 3 seasons. You are right…..theres a chance he could hit the DL but so could chipper, smoltz, brian, soriano, gonzalez and hampton. Not to mention hudson and teixeira. If Reds will pay part of his salary i would go for him. There might be many other answers for us out there, but for me Jr. might be a good one. And theres a really good chance for us (the fans) to say at the allstar break “wow, griffey is having a great season, why didnt the braves go after him in the winter?”

I dont think Jr. is our best choice, but i wouldnt count that option out.

By Wayne in Utah

November 5, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this

Overlord My last shot tonight. Actually, Crisp was just an example. He has salaries of 4.75 and 5.75 mil for the next two years. I like him better than Cameron, but not much better. Actually, the guys I like are Cory Sullivan of Denver (they have Taveras and Spilborghs competing for time, with Baker as another outfield backup) and I also like Ryan Church, who might be more of a left fielder, but could probably play some center.

The Pirates have McLouth and Duffy, either of which would be a cheap stop gap. All of these outfielders are either good or better with the glove.

Also, DeJesus of KC would be an excellent 1-3 year guy.

As for pressure, pressure is being able to feed your family when you have no money.

I personally think a guy like Lillibridge, if he is what everyone says he is, would jump at the chance to shine…..and probably would do at least OK, if not better. I say pick up someone like Sullivan, who might not even be tendered, and then let him and Lillibridge and Schafer fight it out.

Take my word, Willie is history.

Take care…..

By Overlord

November 5, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this

Grinch, that is also what i think. TEX is a must……..He is the next anchor to this team. He is our next chipper. We need TEX more than anything, only a great pitcher would be more important than TEX, and im not sure if even a great pitcher is more important than signing TEX long term.

By Wayne in Utah

November 5, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

One last parting shot tonight. If you say that Hoss, Baby Huey, Tex, KJ, Escobar, Frenchy, Diaz, Bjones and Lillibridge are going to get significant AB’s next season, I think you can expect that one or two of those guys won’t even be a Brave come opening day. Just a hunch. Who will go, and who will stay, that is the burning question!!

Nite all…

By Greg O.

November 5, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

DOB, Your Jayhawks have some tough games ahead against Mike “I’M NOT A KID, I’M 4O!!!” Gundy’s Oklahoma State team, as well as Missouri, but don’t sleep on Iowa State. They’re 2-8, but the record’s deceiving. They’ve put together three very solid efforts in the last three weeks against Oklahoma, Missouri, and finally picking up a win Saturday against Kansas State. That Nov. 17 match-up could definitely be a trap game if Kansas takes the Cyclones lightly. ISU is finally starting to buy into first-year cocah Gene Chizik’s system.

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

November 5, 2007 1:22 AM | Link to this

I feel Coco Crisp while benefiting from playing for the team all of ESPN loves, still is the best CF in the game…at least if you ignore his arm…

here is an interesting, if long (4 page) article on Coco, and other CF’ers. Makes me wonder if Andruw prepared as much as it sounds like Coco and Torii do….. http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/10/05/center_stage/

By The Grinch

November 5, 2007 1:39 AM | Link to this

Berigan; love you, bro. And if Tex doesn’t work out…gotta get new power from somewhere. But ANY free agent CF in the game I see available is either gonna be overpriced, overrated, fragile, or no better than what we’ve got waiting in the wings. Pitching, Tex, Tex, Pitching. If Liberty opens up the wallet for Tex, pitching AND Rowand or Hunter…lovely. Otherwise, a vet CF on the cheap or look to the farm system. So sayeth the Grinch (and apparently Overlord).

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 5, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this

Wayne , I would genuinely be surprised to see either Haren or Lincecum hit the trade market. Oakland has Haren locked up through 2010 and Lincecum is just 23 , 2007 was his rookie campaign. Maybe in a fantasy league but not this off-season. Thats an informative article about Coco Crisp , everyone should read it. The insight into what really goes on defensively gives a true understanding of the game with in the game.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

November 5, 2007 3:36 AM | Link to this

Twelve players I think of as untouchable right now : Smoltz , Hudson , McCann , Teixeira , Escobar , Francoeur , Johnson , Soriano , Jurrjens , Reyes , Moylan and B. Jones. I left Gonzalez off the list due to his injured status. As for Chuck James , I’m just a little P.O.’d at him. He is a much better pitcher than what he showed us in 2007. I really wouldn’t want to trade him unless somebody made the Braves an offer they could not refuse. Hopefully he realizes that it will take a good breaking ball(third pitch) to keep hitters off balance and that it will complement his fastball and change up.

By itsouttahere

November 5, 2007 6:36 AM | Link to this

If we’re gonna go after an older pitcher, might as well go after Glavine’s teammate, P. Martinez! career numbers:

Martinez 209 - 93 2.80 era .692 WL%

Smoltz 207 - 145 3.26 era .588 WL%

Glavine 303 - 199 3.51 era .604 WL%

Koufax 165 - 87 2.76 era .655 WL%

By ncscoots

November 5, 2007 6:51 AM | Link to this

Notorious DOB, re your 6:19PM, I’ll plead hot-stove brain-lock. Purely grasping at straws. Fact is, none of the CF options so far bruited on the blog inspire, so I can only hope Wren has something cooking under the radar.

Starting two rookies in the OF doesn’t seem a good idea to me, and the Braves need one more productive veteran bat, IMO. But who and how? I don’t have a clue.

By BraveLard

November 5, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this

This will be my last post under this moniker. To those of you who never get into the blog more than a few lines from your posts, I “adopted” this moniker on a “dare”. It has served it’s purpose.

DOB Good for you for standing on principle. Bobj was “called down” for the same reasons, and no harder, than many others including myself.(Remember “Muslin Submarines”? :>) ). Yes, he is going through some very tough times but maybe he should take a break from the blog. I’m sure he is not out playing touch-football. I’m almost(?)as old as Bobj, and my time will come, soon enough. But, until then, when I run with the young dogs I expect to end up in the briars, from time to time. And no one is going to come in there and carry me out. “Rules is rules” and if they don’t apply to everyone, then why have them?

            BraveLard/Paladin

By Paladin

November 5, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

“Muslim”. I don’t want a jihad launched against me.

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this

Overlord, Reds would want to get rid of Griffey because of salary or because they could get some really good player(s).

Griffey is a bargain but not for a corner outfielder who is a solid hitter but nothing all that extraordinary for a corner outfielder. And as a centerfielder is probably fairly significantly below average defensively at this point.

Why would the Braves trade a pretty talented, young player that the Reds would command and pay him what he’s due to make and have to deal with an aging player who had had injury problems who can’t be a good defensive centerfielder any longer?

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

itsouttahere, yeah, except for the Braves wouldn’t be getting Pedro’s career numbers. They’d be getting the injured and/or ordinary and relatively old Pedro.

By Purely Twoddle

November 5, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

So Scott Kazmir can be had, eh? I wonder what it would take to get him…Any Thoughts?

By Steamboat

November 5, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Wayne, HERE is about as complete an article as I’ve seen about Alexei Ramirez, and includes a film clip. Who knows… the Braves have a couple of Cubans on the roster, so maybe we’ve got a leg up on attracting him, if we’re interested.

Also, read on the NY POST site that the Rays may consider trading Scott Kazmir. Wow - that would be a guy to go after, but we probably can’t meet the Rays’ demands (isn’t that a familiar theme?).

By Lew

November 5, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Shaun-Did you catch my post last night? I make comments to you like that because you get all huffy and indignant. Just funnin with ya, Dude. Don’t take it so personally. Give me grief for being arrogant. I won’t dispute you and will probably laugh with you.

Now baseball (which there wasn’t enough of last night). Harris? let’s get real here people. Harris is nothing but a .230 hitter who had two good months out of a 7 year career. He tanked in terrible fashion from the end of June until the end of the season. He will be arbitration eligible. He can’t run the bases. He can’t advance runners.The guy will not even make the team this year, much less start in CF. IT WON’T HAPPEN.

Griffey was a phenomenal talent-once upon a time. He has chronic leg problems. He has torn his hamstring off of the bone and had it surgically repaired. That injury never heals so it was like it used to be. He is a missed season waiting to happen-again-at any given time. HE IS NOT THE ANSWER.

Baldelli might have looked like an intelligent deal last year when there was hope he was healthy. Yes, he has a good contract and if health could be maintained, would be worthwhile. However, he missed another 127 games last year and was barely above the Mendoza line. He has missed a minimum of 70 games three years in a row. In two of those he missed 162 games and 127 games. He likely is not worth his salary this year. HE IS NOT WORTH GIVING UP A PLAYER IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE HIM.

Now, Tim Lincecum. He is a bona fide potential stud (at least in the minds of most people). However, Jeff Francoeur in return? Time for a serious reality check here, people. Lincecum has pitched all of 24 games in the bigs. He only went 7-5 with a 4.00 ERA. Now that is not bad and he looks like a good arm. However, that is a damn small sampling for a young player. His minor league record was sterling and you might expect him to become an ACE, but 24 games isn’t enough to know for sure, especially when the price tag is an outfielder who has led baseball in assists since his debut, has driven in over 100 runs two successive years, is extremely popular and who has shown the ability to make adjustments for improvement in his game-in other words, a proven commodity and a franchise player (despite what UGA Brave may think about him). BEWARE PITCHERS AND SOPHOMORE SLUMPS BEFORE CONFERRING SUPERSTAR STAUS.

By ssiscribe

November 5, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens, as another week begins and we dive headlong into the offseason.

Center field has dominated the baseball talk on the ol’ Braves/MIB/BBQ/Toes/Pie lately (when the family hasn’t been quabbling amongst themselves; nice thing about family is you can argue with ‘em, but you still love ‘em when it’s done … No worries at this point, gang. Move along, and pie for all!).

Where was I? Oh yeah, center field. Who will Bobby have to put out there between Matt Diaz and newly married (sorry, ladies) Jeff Francoeur come April?

Tori Hunter? No, sorry. Braves can’t swim in that financial pool.

Ken Griffey Jr? Seriously, come on. Why spend that much when you’ll need somebody to play at least 60 games out there when he’s hurt? And Junior didn’t even play center last year for the Reds. This isn’t the 1998 Junior we’d be getting, folks.

And yes, I know many of you are saying it’s not the 1998 Tom Glavine the Braves are getting, if and when (and I believe it’s a matter of when at this point) the Braves and Tommy G. finalize things. But the Braves don’t need the Cy Young winning Glavine of 1998. They need 13 wins and an ERA around 4, which is what Glavine did in 2007.

As for center field, the Braves can’t afford a top-tier free agent. Otherwise, why not resign Andruw Jones? Griffey makes no sense.

Aaron Rowland? Again, too high priced. I don’t think he can be had for under $10 mil a year. I’d love to have him in the lineup and I love his enthusiasm, but sometimes his all-out play results in him getting hurt. He’s good for at least one DL stint a season.

Mike Cameron? I liked him until the supplement test and resulting suspension. Again, he’s missing 25 games right off the bat. Can’t go there when you’d need somebody to fill in for the first month.

Coco Crisp? I wouldn’t mind him at all. 27 years old, good speed, decent stick. The BoSox are expected to try and trade him, as Jacob Ellsbury shined in the postseason. Crisp will make $4.75 million in 08 and $5.75 million in 09.

But what will it take to get Coco in a tomahawk? Probably more than the Braves want to give up. And then there is the salary issue, given the fact the Braves are facing the prospect of signing Mark Teixeira to a long-term deal after next season.

And I think you HAVE to lock up Tex, plain and simple. Unless this team wins the World Series in 2008 and Tex plays a big role in bringing the big trophy to Peachtree Street, you have to lock that guy up and anchor first base with him into the 2010s. Dude is too good and we gave up a lot of potential — I know, it’s potential at the moment — to get him, so don’t need to let him walk for nothing after next season.

So, what to do about center field?

Brent Lillibridge may or may not be the answer as we sit here in early November, but it sure would work out nicely if he can hit enjoy major league pitching to win the spot in spring training.

And I think the Braves will give him every single opportunity to do so when we convene in Lake Buena Vista in three months and two weeks. The kid has speed, hit at both Mississippi and Richmond, and played center field one season at the University of Washington.

Give that kid a chance. Sign Glavine, get another starting pitcher and start saving the pennies to lock up Tex.

Griffey, Hunter, Rowland, Cameron, Crisp … no, I say you give the kid the chance to win the job. It’s a gamble, sure, but I think it’s worth the risk. I think the kid will do just fine out there, will hit enough up here, and the money saved to try and lock up Tex and secure the middle of the rotation behind Smoltz and Hudson will go a long way to getting this team in the postseason next season and beyond.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Steamboat, hard to know how good Ramirez really is, but he is in the middle of his prime and he can reportedly play the three most athletically demanding positions on the diamond.

I think the D-Rays would only trade Kazmir if they can get at least two very good players under 25 (and they’d probably want one to be an impact-type and they may want a top pitching prospect). Just a guess.

By Braveheart

November 5, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

How about Griffey for left field to platoon with Diaz? Would probably hurt Griff’s ego too much. Bonds would probably be a cheaper option than Griffey and would not cost as much in a trade but never mind won’t happen. Don’t want to upset the comfy clubhouse. Getting a Coco Crisp to play center would not hurt as much if you were making up for lost production in center and short by getting a better corner outfielder than the woeful Harris side of the Diaz/Harris platoon. This will never happen and I am not saying that it should but just something to think about. Go ahead kill me for this idea.

Lew, if Lincecum can be had for Frenchy, you gotta make that deal. The Braves can more easily find someone to replace Frenchy than they can find another young arm like Lincecum.

By ssiscribe

November 5, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

Lew, good morning my friend. Imagine it’s getting chilly up in Vermont … supposed to hit 32 here tomorrow night.

Now, pitching talk (noted transition from the Scribe): I LOVE Lincecum. His stuff is super and I think he’s going to become one of the top 15 pitchers in the majors and soon. But I agree with you 1,000 percent that there is no way you trade Francoeur for him. Francoeur is untouchable, much as McCann is. I know Frenchy doesn’t have the long-term deal Mac does, but I think that will get taken care of before opening day, I really do.

Any price tag for Lincecum is going to be very high. I just don’t think the Braves have it in them to pull the trigger on someone that will cost an arm and a leg personnel wise.

Kazmir? That’s interesting the Rays would dangle him out there on the market. Again, think the price tag will be quite high. He led the AL in strikeouts and has won 10 games or more in each of the past three seasons. Don’t know his contract status, but he’s been in the majors for four years.

Again, would love to see either of those guys in a Braves uniform. Just don’t think it will happen, for it’ll cost way too much to bring them to town.

—30—

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

Lew, I don’t think the Giants would trade Lincecum unless they could get someone like Francoeur and possibly another decent player/prospect.

And you are right, why would the Braves give up Francoeur for a very young pitcher? Lincecum could blow out his arm but Francoeur is less likely to have a career-threatening injury. Not saying either is likely but a severe injury to Lincecum is more likely than a severe injury to Francoeur (although it depends greatly on how careful the Giants are with him).

By ncscoots

November 5, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Braveheart is right: if there were a plan to have a productive run-producing bat in LF, CF offense is moot. But that isn’t the case, at least on the radar. Expecting Brandon Jones to have a monster year is too much (he may indeed do so, but making that Plan A seems pretty optimistic), and Diaz can’t provide corner OF run production.

If the Opening Day OF consists of two rookies and Frenchy, I’ll have qualms. If it’s Diaz, Crisp, and Francoeur…gods be merciful. That’s an outfield only an opponent could love.

By Wayne in Utah

November 5, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Guys, I understand all the logic behind NOT trading a Frenchy for a very young pitcher. Also, I like Frenchy and his upside, so this is not personal.

My thought are that maybe the only way to get a true impact young pitcher, you have to give up something significant.

Chipper, McCann, and Smoltz are NOT going anywhere.

KJ, Escobar, BJones, Lillibridge, Reyes, Jurrjens, James and Diaz are NOT enough bounty.

So, that leaves Francoeur, Hudson, and Soriano as your biggest impact trading pieces. I don’t see Hudson going for another pitcher. Soriano is probably untouchable, as coach states.

So, the only ways to get it done is some sort of magical package, or a blockbuster with Francoeur.

Not trying to advocate such a move, just discussing the merits of it.

I understand that Lincecum has only pitced 3/4 of a year. Also, if I were pushing Frenchy to the Giants, I would personally shoot for Cain.

How about Frenchy and Reyes for Cain and Schierrholz (sp)?

Just something to talk about….

PS: Escobar, with another young player, might be enough to get it done, but with Edgar gone, that means you would have to rely on Lillibridge as your starting SS. Now that is a stretch today.

By DAP

November 5, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

JJMB, dont you wish you knew what was really important in life? frenchy knows.

congrats jeff and katie!

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Wayne, Braves aren’t trading Escobar or Francoeur, of that I’d be willing to wager a very large sum (if I were a betting man, which I’m not).

No way would they trade Francoeur. Are you kidding me? If you attend games at Turner Field, you know how many Francoeur jerseys are out there. You know how prominently he’s featured in their advertising. He’s a fixture for years to come, Wayne, not a player you trade a full year before he’s eligible for arbitration.

No way. It’d be a PR nightmare, not to mention a trade that could very well bite you for the next decade if Francoeur turns into the player the Braves believe he will be, a consistent .290-.300 hitter who gives you 25-35 homers and 100-130 RBIs. With that production, that personality, that affordability for at least the next few years, that leadership potential, you don’t trade him. And they won’t.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 5, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Under no circumstances should Francoeur be traded unless ManRam, Big Pappi, Johan Santana, Alex Rios, Albert Puljos, Josh Beckett, Derek Jeter is coming here in the deal. In other words, Frenchy should not be traded. Its asinine to even suggest it. He alonng with McCann, Escobar, and hopefully Tex are the cornerstones of the future.

By Lew

November 5, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

I’ve got to agree 100% with Shaun on this one. Just why would you HAVE to pull the trigger on that deal, as Braveheart suggests? Yes, Lincecum will be expensive, but 24 games and a 7-5 record is not entirely inspiring to my way of thinking-not when Francouer has proven his ability for several years, now. It’s time to lock HIM up long term. You don’t give up a franchise player for a one year pitcher-too damn many of them blow their arms out and we’ve had enough injuries to pitchers the past two years to last us a lifetime. What we need to do is see what package of farm hands (and we still have a lot) that Oakland will require for Blanton. I keep trying to tell everyone that our minor league pitching has come a long way in recent years. We have some prospects that will pan out just fine-they have numbers every bit as good as Lincecum put up in the minors. You don’t give up proven 100 RBI guys for a pitcher who MAY be good-sometime-if he doesn’t get hurt. Look at all of those Marlins’ kids and how much everyone expected from them. Every damn one ended up on the DL and Dontrelle has flamed out. You just can’t take the chance. Get someone like Blanton who at least has a track record.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 5, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Well, SEC fans, I guess it’s safe to say, Arkansas Running Back, Darren McFadden, wants to get his name back in the Heisman running. He only went for 321 yards RUSHING with a TD(that would be a helluva passing yardage number, much less rushing.) He also threw a 23 yard touchdown pass in the midst of the ESPN2-televised spanking that the Hogs put on “The Old Ball Coach” Saturday night. I love seeing Spurrier get beat in the spotlight.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Greg O, agreed: The Jayhawks could easily lose at least two of their next four, and O-State is a lot better than their record indicates. But after watching them Saturday, I do think if they play well in their next two games, they whould go into the Mizzou game unbeaten. That one’s going to be a serious test. Tigers are very good.

And then the winner likely to face OU in the conference title game … another severe test.

By Overlord

November 5, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

SHAUN

If thats the case, i wouldnt pay more than 5mill for anyone out there. I would let one of the kid play there, maybe lillibridge. Braves youngsters are no longer kids. Our most “inmature ” players are yunel, jeff and brian, so i think we are ready to bring one young player up, this guys are already big leaguers.

Ill agree with many guys here….. money goes for SP and TEX. CF is not our priority…..at least i dont think it is. It is an important position, but this team is solid enough to overcome the presence of a rookie in CF.

By Overlord

November 5, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Robert,

Im not sure who mentioned that option of trading Jeff, but it is a fact, trading him is unreal. Jeff will help to win it all, he will only get better, it is scary to think about it, but he and brian will get better. Yunel will also get better. Those guys are untouchable. If jeff gets to understand there are other things in life other than the fences…… he will be as good as chipper.

By ssiscribe

November 5, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

DOB, just gotta ask: Did you ever think you’d live to see the day KU was ranked No. 4 in the nation in November, and it wasn’t in the preseason hoops poll?

—30—

By DAP

November 5, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

it would be stupid for the braves to trade francouer at all, for anything. there is no feesable trade involving frenchy that would be good for the braves. he is to good of a story in atlanta. even if the team isnt winning.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Hillbilly, afraid the Hogs lost too many early on, undermining McFadden’s Heisman chances. Sounds like too many votes have switched to Dennis Dixon, the Braves minor leaguer and Ducks q-back.

McFadden might not even finish in the top three, though I agree he’s deserving.

By Braveheart

November 5, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Although I would pull the trigger on a Frenchy/Lincecum type trade, I gotta agree with Shaun that it would be very risky because of Lincecum’s age and the tendency of young pitchers to get hurt. I have not seen Lincecum pitch alot but I have heard many people say that he is an injury waiting to happen because of his mechanics. But I have heard others say that his mechanics would actually lead to less chance for an injury. Who knows? Apparently the experts even disagree with each other on Linecum’s chances for injury. But the reality is that young pitchers often do get hurt. With Frenchy, the risk/reward is lower. But if I could get my hands on Lincecum, I’d trade Frenchy for him …… and I like Frenchy alot.

BUT DOB’s points are well taken. Just look at the attendance increase since Frenchy arrived and Smoltz went back to the rotation in 2005. Alot of that can be attributed to Frenchy. AS DOB pointed out yesterday, the kid has a legion of followers including myself who have been watching his every move since high school.

Would Liberty Media be so willing to open up the pocketbooks so much right now without the attendance impact of Frenchy? Probably not. Frenchy has given them alot more extra money to play with.

Is this perhaps a reason Frenchy has not signed a contract like McCann did? McCann’s contributions to the team are more directly related to on field performance while Jeff’s is much more difficult to measure because of what he brings to the team off the field.

By itsouttahere

November 5, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

It would be a miracle for the Giants to part with Lincecum. Quit dreamin’ about that happening…

During the regular season, some of you should try ESPN’s MLB “Power Rankings”. ESPN ranks the teams weekly which is followed by a comments section. Unfortunately, the comments section is RULED by Mets and Red Sox fans. It would be wonderful if some of you would help out in backing the Braves in there!! This is at ESPN.com > MLB > more+ > Power rankings. It can be pretty intense with everyone fighting for their team. It’s fun - try it when the season opens late March!

By Braveheart

November 5, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

i just hope the falcons don’t make the mistake they did last draft. they should have done anything to get peterson and they should do anything to get mcfadden next season. they are both so similar. mcfadden would fit perfectly into petrino’s power running game just like peterson would have.

that colts/pats game while good was a letdown for me. i wanted offensive firepower. but whatever. such an advantage when things are desperate to just chuck the ball 60 yards down the field and let randy moss just go find it. tom brady has a much nicer arm than i thought. he throws a great deep ball. he chucks it so high it is like a punt.

DOB, how big of a baseball prospect is Dixon?

By richbrave

November 5, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

To Mr. O’B - wan: You de’ man!!! The sage has spoken. Francouer stays. As I said earlier last evening, he’s the franchise player once Chip retires. I believe he will mature into a three hitter and move right in when Chipper is replaced. Teixeira is necessary. Unless the line-up is due for MAJOR reworking the Braves HAVE to raise payroll to fit him in. Now, how about that #2 hole. Mr. O’BRIAN we need your enimitable experte-e-z-ze- please. Where do we go for a two hitter since you believe Rowand will be too expensive?? I just can’t see a Series champ pitching-hitting combo without serious $$$$ in addition to Andruw’s and Renteria’s $$$$ cuts.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

November 5, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, agreed wholeheartedly. He started slow last year and then exploded as the season got longer. I have a feeling he’ll do that again, but I don’t believe the Hogs will put together as many wins as we did last year to boost his chances. It’s a shame McFadden and Felix Jones are tied down by the mediocrity that has become the Houston Nutt way. Jones is a damn good RB. He could be a star on any SEC team, but he plays second fiddle to the Beast….He’s a beast I tell ya’.

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

DOB is definitely right. Besides the fact that it would be a huge risk to trade a potential superstar for a young pitcher, it would also be a very dumb PR move.

Overlord, if what is true you wouldn’t pay $5 million for anyone out there? Could you clarify?

I don’t want the Braves to commit a lot of years and dollars to a centerfielder but I also don’t know if they should withhold if they can get a vet for 3 years or under and $10 million or under. Lillibridge hasn’t played there since his freshman year of college.

Griffey is not the answer because he’s no longer a centerfielder and they’d have to pay him and give up talent to get him. One of these factors doesn’t disqualify him but all of them together, I would think, definitely do.

By Braves4Ever

November 5, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

The Rays are wanting SS and proven RP in return. Would be quite a catch. Kids young and under team control for three years. Kazmir turns 24 in January and carries a 3.64 career ERA despite pitching in the AL East. He’s been particularly tough on the Red Sox (2.66 ERA in 101 innings). Not sure we could match up here but some team will get a stud.

By Greg in TN

November 5, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Top of the week to Planet Braves…

Chris Klob Great to hear from you, Chris. Hope everything is rolling smoothly for you down in the Low Country. It will be an interesting offseason in Dodgerland with Joe T coming on board. I know there toward the end of the season that clubhouse was fractured between the youth of the organization (Loney and Kemp among others) versus the veterans (led by Jeff Kent). It was mentioned down the stretch when the Dodgers faded in September and brought up again with Torre’s hiring. I would think his first order of business is to unite the clubhouse and work to develop the young guys. He’s taken heat for being rough on arms, so I am curious to see how that will translate to how Penny, Lowe and Schmidt are handled. The McCourt’s are another issue. I don’t have a good read on them as of yet (TennPaul probably would have the best read of anyone on the blog). The 2008 season is the Dodger’s 50th in Chavez Ravine and I think the McCourt’s are sick of Moreno and the Angels getting all the pub in LA.

Folks the more I think about it, the more I believe we may not see a CF signing or move this offseason. With Schafer lighting up the desert and Lillibridge as an option, FW/JS may just decide to see what both bring to the table at Dark Star and then if need be, make a trade for short term help or THEN bring in Cameron if nobody makes him an offer in the interim. Right now, nobody that is out there as an available CF’er blows me away. I was open to trying Cameron out, but he’s going to be unavailable for the first 25 games, so that option is a lot less desired now.

This offseason should be a return to normalcy as far as payroll and how the front office operates is concerned. I think next offseason will be a much better indicator since Tex will be a free agent by then. I think it’s pretty obvious to me that Bora$ will NOT entertain any type of contract extension unless is has a large amount of zeros to the left of the decimal. I do think we’ll be a player and I also believe we’ll make a competitive offer for Tex, however even with the loosening of the purse strings by Liberty, I don’t know that we’ll necessarily be the highest bidder. I have faith in what McGuirk says and I do believe Liberty will give the front office all of the latitude they need to make deals, but remember this, even when Ted was running the ship in the JS era, we were never number one in payroll in baseball. We were usually always in the neighborhood with our offers (something we haven’t been able to do with the restrictions in place by TW). I think we’ll be back to being more competitive with offers for our players up for free agency as well as making offers for other players.

By Wayne in Utah

November 5, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Hey guys, don’t get me wrong. I love Francoeur. I was just making a statement that the ONLY two ways of getting a BIG impact pitcher is to either back up the truck and send a lot of top players, or send one coveted player.

I was looking for reaction, and got what I expected.

Let’s not anybody have a coronary, OK!!

:-)

By ppaddy123

November 5, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Hooray! I miss reading the blog for about 16 hours and have to read about Bob’s feelings being hurt for 12 hours before I find more baseball talk. We all have opinions. I think DOB made it clear; no religion and/or politics. Everything else is pretty much a go.

Whoever suggested Shaun was a 23 year old chick with a smokin’ hot body needs HELP! What’s next? He/she, whatever, is posting naked? This is an example of the type of discussion we can usually expect to find when not talking baseball, BBQ, or music.

Oh, and for the record, the AJC still won’t let you use A* on the blog, but it’s OK to say poop shute.

By Overlord

November 5, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I was talking about you 840 post…. about Griffey not being the solution for the braves……. maybe he is not, but spending millions on hunter, etc. aint the answer either.

Ill support the call up a youngster theory or sign a “cheap” CF, nothing more expensive than coco.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

November 5, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

DOB, I believe your Jayhawks are for real. But, I think Missouri will be their test. Mizzou is tough and I’m telling you that people here in Oklahoma don’t want to face them even though they won’t admit it. They know on a neutral site Mizzou could be tough but they are afraid of Kansas as well. The Jayhawks are great. Of course, Nebraska sucks and that performance alone Saturday should get Bill Callahan fired.

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Overlord, okay, then we agree. I’ve never said we should go after Hunter. That would be ridiculous. In fact, I think someone like Rowand will command too much, especially in terms of years.

By Wayne in Utah

November 5, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

paddy123 always post fully clothed!

By Serge45

November 5, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Since you brought it up, what can you tell us about Dennis Dixon? How’s he as a prospect? What are the chances of him pulling a Charlie Ward - winning the Heisman and then taking off to another sport?

By ppaddy123

November 5, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

ARGH! Spelling! I meant POOP CHUTE

By D.O.O.B

November 5, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123, the closest you got to talking baseball, BBQ or Music was to close with “poop shute” which is what the Braves went down this season.

By richbrave

November 5, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

WAYNE IN UTAH: FILL UP THE TRUCK with the farm. Rape and pillage. Raise the payroll to 110 million at least. Let’s go. It’s really hard to steal World Champions. Your have to have what I know Bobby Cox wants, the players - NOW - to seal the deal. Go for Santana, Rowand and get it done.

By ppaddy123

November 5, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

D.O.O.B or is it BOOB? That was the point of my post…..DUH.

By DAP

November 5, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

much like bloggers say that they do not expect anything from hampton, but what we get will be bonus….i say i do not expect anything offensivly from centerfield. any offense we get is bonus.

and im very serious about that. im saying, if langerhans was our best option in center, id be fine with batting him 8th and letting him start.

my point is, i dont like the idea of trading for a centerfielder, and im dead-set against getting a free agent in CF.

all we need is someone who can play defense in center. the offense is bonus. that said, we have one guy and probably three that can play center for us in ‘08.

the guy that can definetly play is gregor blanco. people are getting excited about shaffer’s hitting in the fall league, well blanco did that same thing last year. he is certinly good enough to bat 8th for the braves, and his defense is good. (again, the anything with the bat is bonus)

the next probable guy is lillibridge, who has played CF before, but only has pro experience at SS. he is a better hitter(but again, thats a bonus) but hes fast and obviously has the tools to be a good CF (since he used to play there)

the least likely candidate, but not probable, is shafer. hes hitting well in fall league, and is supposed to be a wiz with the glove.

my HOPE is that all three go to spring training, where they battle for the CF spot. the braves will know then which one is best to get the job now. but ONE of them has got to be the guy.

its not to much to ask to ask anyone of these guys to bat 8th and play good defense.

i hope the braves plan for one of these guys in center, and spend their energy getting some pitchers.

By flange1

November 5, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Not to beat a dead horse, but I went back and reread the posts from DOB and Bob, Journalist. I agree with ppaddy 123, we have been told for a long time that no religion or politics on the blog…

That is what DOB told Bob.

I don’t understand why everyone is getting so thin skinned..

Ron Roberts tells all to google him, JJS does and makes a joke about a seafood resturant because he know JULIA will pop in and RR goes ballistic.

Effrim points a rather nasty post to DOB, then gets offended when DOB retorts.

Now 3/4 of the regulars are in a tizzy because they feel Bob has been offended.

Sorry all, I don’t see it that way. Bob has some issues in his life that quite frankly stink right now, but he is a blogger on the Man in Black blog like all of the rest of us. The rules are for everyone. I am sorry about Bob’s wife and I am sorry he is upset, but it is time to move on.

There is no reason to say you’re sorry if you haven’t done anything wrong.

On the same night that Bob abd DOB had their words, JJS and I had posts that were deleted. I spoke privately to DOB about the posts being deleted and his response was basically, let’s put all the petty name calling aside and enjoy the blog. He indicated that he would delete any posts that were “shouting” matches between bloggers.

I must say that even though I had a post deleted, I agree with him.

We all know that we have a couple of bloggers that are here only to incite.

I hope the regulars, JJS, SJA, Grinch and others that are not happy with DOB’s response will put it behind them and move forward.

I don’t believe that the way DOB spoke to Effrim, Bob, Journalist, Lew or anyone else is any worse or better than the way he ALWAYS responds.

If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen…..

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

DAP, Blanco is a weak hitter—his SLG is only six points higher than his OBP. I know CF is not necessarily a position where a player needs a ton of power but it requires some.

By ppaddy123

November 5, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

flange1 very well stated.

By DAP

November 5, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

shaun i dont think so. we have to much of offense 1-7 to NEED offense in the 8th spot. its would be nice, but not necessary. besides, in spring, if blanco isnt the right guy, one of the others can get the spot.

my point: CF is not a place i think braves managment needs to be spending money for, trading players for, or even concentrating on to much. weve got options, and what is going to get us to the world series is pitching and defense.

By richbrave

November 5, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

PLE-E-EZ-ZE - No donut holes in the line-up!!! The National league already has a donut in the pitcher. Two is fatal. The World Champs don’t have 0”s for eight hitters. They can all hit. The Junior circuit has been pounding Senior teams for years now with the DH. I think both leagues should be the same. Either both have a DH or neither one has the DH.

By Mr J

November 5, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

flange 1,

Re your 1:19 post- you are correct, sir.

By DAP

November 5, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

ill beat the dead horse a bit too, and this is probably going to sound insensitive…i apologize if it does…

but DOB’s post basically telling bob not to talk politics didnt mention bob’s wife, or the topic of wives, or the topic of cancer.

so i dont see why bob’s wife’s illness has anything to do with what DOB said. its a seperate issue.

does that make sense?

bob, im sorry about your wife.

By Anders

November 5, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

DOB I view Francoeur as the Braves version of David Wright. Some on here might think Francoeur is better which is okay. Both are the new faces of the organization etc…. Anyway, as Wright received a new $55 mil extension late last season and I believe Francoeur is just one year behind him do you see the Braves locking him up to a similar deal? You have to think his agent will use it as a yardstick. I realize they don’t have to do anything because of his limited service time but I would think the price goes up for every year they wait to lock him up.

By Ben

November 5, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m a long time Brave fan that lives in S.Florida. I think the first thing That the Braves have to do is get Texeria and Francoeur under long term contract. I don’t believe C.F. is a priority. I think a young rookie that is fast and good with the glove, with our bats will be enough. Our pitching, with adding Glavine is as stong as any team in our division. Our bullpen is strong, and will get stronger once Gonzalez returns. I really like that trade with the Tigers. We got two great prospects for Renteria. I believe Escobar is a better S.S. with greater range.

By RedEyedAndBlue

November 5, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Haven’t posted since early September. Home renovations definitely took myself out of the running for the ROTY MIB blogger award.

Overpaying (8 mil. or more) for a free agent “veteran” center fielder makes very little business sense considering the number of prized youth waiting to assume the position in ‘09. I like a Lillibridge/Gregor Blanco platoon in center in ‘08, that is if Lillibridge spends some time in Winter Ball refocusing on the position. Another question not asked here much is who will be the backup catcher in ‘08. Pena did an ok job and could also play a below-average defensive 1B. Barbaro Canizares is another candidate and has 2 to 3 times the bat of Pena but less defensive skills.

By 22oz

November 5, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

This blog needs to be put to rest. The bitter, albeit whiny, feelings expressed on this page should be shut down in favor of a new, hot stove flavored blog. This argument that has been taking place forced me to neglect my work to research what all the fuss was about. i now feel dumber for doing this. Did not see what the fuss was all about.

Not to mention it is slow loading….

Hopefully we’ll get some action at the GM meetings this week, because i can’t keep typing “Sign Glavine, give Blanco, Schafer, and Lillibridge tryouts for CF in Spring Training.” There’s only so many ways to word that. Need some new action to discuss. Unfortunately, the only new updates we are getting in the baseball world is what A-Rod had for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

By Afraid for my life....

November 5, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

I understand the guy wanting to play for the Braves, but does it seem like Todd Jones has crossed over into crazy territory. He’s like a Braves stalker/ wannabe…We already have a closer!

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP

Ben, why is getting Francoeur under a long-term contract a priority above CF? Francoeur isn’t even eligible for arbitration for the first time until after the 2008 season. Not a free agent until after the 2011 season.

Kinda hard to get all worked up about the urgency of that one. I think they should sign him to a long-term contract, like you do. But it’s not urgent.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

All those who asked: I’d say Dixon’s got to be considered a better football prospect than baseball at this point. But it’s just so early, baseball wise. I mean, he hit just .176 with one double, one triple, no homers and 22 Ks in 74 at-bats in rookie ball. Pretty bad, but just such a small sample, and doing it between football and all that.

I’m told he’s far better than his baseball numbers indicate, but I don’t know simply because I haven’t seen him play and haven’t seen any results in pro ball yet. Just have to go by what scouts say, which is, very talented, but very, very raw.

By RobertE

November 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

In case you have not seen this here is a link to an article about Braves minor leaguers playing winter ball.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071101&contentid=319484&vkey=prmilb&fext=.jsp

By Shaun

November 5, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

DAP and RedEyedAndBlue, I don’t know. I like the thought of saving the money but I’m just not sure the Braves would get that much out of Blanco, Lillibridge or someone else. It may be worth giving a little extra to ensure they get a solid option in center next season. Again, don’t want them to break the bank. But I think it is worth it because I don’t think any of their centerfield options are clearly ready for ‘08.

By ncscoots

November 5, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Soooo, some no-stick defender in CF is OK because “he’s only batting 8th”, or because the Braves “already have a lot of offense”?

Then why were so many bloggers (mostly the same bunch) moaning whenever Woodward, or Thorman, or even Andruw were batting low in the order? I mean, they were only batting 7th or 8th, and the Braves already had a lot of offense, right?

Specious reasoning in both cases, and logical in no respect.

By Lew

November 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Anders-For once I actually agree with you. Francoeur does hold a position on the Braves similar to that of Wright. Yes, I believe he will and should be signed long term, though maybe not right this moment as DOB says-more important things to deal with first.

Flange-I daresay I was reamed as hard if not harder than anyone on Bloody Sunday and I’m still here. It wasn’t the first time I was taken to task by DOB and probably won’t be the last. It happens to everyone with a forceful opinion, sooner or later.

I feel very badly for Bob Journalist and have been in constant contact with him since his travails began. He knows how I feel about him and his situation. He will also understand why I’m not going anywhere. Y’all, I’ve been beaten stabbed and had a gun pulled on me. A little tongue lashing by a Journalist who was unhappy about comments doesn’t even rise to the level of some really serious sh!t. Time to let it ride. DOB realizes by now that he is perceived as coming down hard on an icon and may be more selective in his choice of words in the future-maybe not-who knows? The fact remains that some of our displeasure has been brought in the open. Y’all made your feeling known. It has been duly noted. I’m afraid it is what it is and that’s all. Time to put our energies into what we’ve done for the two+ years I’ve been around. Take a stand on what moves the Braves’ are making. Suggest ways they could improve there team. Give the Trolls all the grief we can. But let’s get back to what we do best-argue with friends we’ve made and rail against baseball’s inequities. And pray for Bob’s wife. All this recrimination isn’t helping any of us. Not in the least. Leave it all to the truly dissatisfied among us. There’s too damn many of them already.

By Overlord

November 5, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Why not try Lillibridge in CF, if he has played there and he is as athletic as many people say, he could at least do an AVG job, thats all we need since we are already loaded. Plus we get the flexibility of having an OF that plays IF and 2 IF that play OF (KJ and CJ), in case of emergencies. By doing this braves would only have to concentrate on SP and bench help.

By sox fan

November 6, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

Just to settle the Crisp defense question: as a Sox fan who watches a lot of games, I assure you, Crisp’s outfield defense is excellent. He doesn’t have Andruw’s arm, but he is likely even rangier, if you can believe that, and his confidence in his abilities leads him to make astonishing diving catches with very, very few miscues (two errors in two years in a Boston uniform). Track down a play he made in ‘06 on mlb.com, if you can, against the Mets at Fenway in interleague play, running with his back to the plate and diving onto the warning track to save a few runs and the game.

He is the best CF I have ever seen; the Sox had the fewest runs allowed in the AL this year, and his defense was a big part of that. I would rather the Sox trade Manny and put Ellsbury in left than trade Coco, unless they can get real value for him.

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