Braves

By Lew

October 28, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

DOB-Yes, this has been a bizarre World Series-playoff season, too. I think the scheduling was botched and that had an impact on the whole thing-especially that huge layoff for the Rockies-nothing like a long layoff to short circuit a hot team. The Rockies were as hot as any team I’ve ever seen-until the aforementioned layoff, that is.

Lillibridge would work for me if that’s the way they go. I’m for almost any internal move that avoids picking up any of those “C” players-we all know which ones. I was just under the impression from things you’ve quoted from Braves’ Brass, that he wasn’t an option. I think it’s worth a try. We need that pitching much more. It will be fun to hear how many times the baby-faced Lillibridge will have his presence questioned by overzealous security personnel.

Now pitching (there’s your Transition, Oh Scribe). I read the latest issue of Chop Talk with interest, as always. In Bobby Cox’s column, he prominently mentions JoJo Reyes as a potential number two starter. He also says that whatever small development he feels that JoJo must undergo, will be accomplished at the ML level. No more Richmond for Mr. Reyes. Bobby said this in so many words. Maybe the Denizens need to take this one into consideration when they plan their grandiose plans for our 08 rotation. Bobby made it known, in no uncertain terms, JoJo is in his plans for 08. Interesting.

By Stinky

October 28, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

first?

By Greg

October 28, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

Can somebody tell me what was going on with that Fox intro? Why did we have to watch Yankee face guy showing up in real footage like some kind of demented Forrest Gump? Are they that hard up for Yankee fan interest. BTW, I’m with DOB if I have to watch another Dane Cook promo or another Frank TV promo, there’s not a church tower high enough in America for me to climb. Final NFL exit question: Should the Patriots be required to give their opponents a 21-point lead at the beginning of the game? My God, these guys are playing in another league. They will absolutely spank the Colts next week. It’s not going to be pretty.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’m sure he means “eventual” No. 2 starter, but yes, I think Braves definitely see him as a potential member of next year’s opening-day rotation. He’ll probably have to earn it in spring, though….

Bfan54, you wrote at end of last blog: “Your 1:07am was wrong. The Bosox are famously the exception to ?down 3-0? reference.”

I said in World Series. In World Series, 22 teams that take a 3-0 lead are 22-0 in those series, and 19 have swept.

The BoSox came back from 3-0 deficit against Yankees in ALCS, only time it’s happened in any postseason series. But I said WORLD Series.

By Heathcliff Paladin

October 28, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

I’m here, but only briefly.

By Stinky

October 28, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

It’s a conspiracy.

By StingerSplash

October 28, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

DOB,

All that fatalistic Sox fans’ attitude died when Edgar Renteria hit into a 1-3 to end the 2004 World Series. Any Red Sox fan who doesn’t believe that is fooling themselves. I say this as a lifelong Sox fan (and Braves fan) and the son of someone who spent 65 years following the Sox (and the Braves).

By eric the elder

October 28, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

Is anyone else offended when the PA announcer tells the fans to stand and remove their caps for the playing of the National Anthem? I find that truly condescending, and any foreigner hearing that would would put another tally in the laughing stock column for America.

I’m a 20-year military man, so please don’t come after me for being unpatriotic. I just don’t like being treated like a child.

By Heathcliff Paladin

October 28, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

Anyone who brings the infield “in” with Ortiz up, has a dental connection.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

If that kid Ellsbury doesn’t look out, he’s gonna win himself a World Series MVP award.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

I like Reyes but only as a No.5,until He proves is meddle,I think that is His slot for now!!!

I’m calling for an all out assault on San Fran,for Noah Lowry,and Bypassing Tom Glavine,I know Glav is n option at this point but I’d Rather have a little bit younger option with good years ahead not behind Him!!!!!

By journalist jimmy smith

October 28, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

not only not first - second to lew.

pride goeth before a fall - not sure what that means but all should ponder.

already 1-0 boston.

who brought up pie?

By ncscoots

October 28, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Ah, nothing wrong with JoJo at the back of the rotation, heck, he’d probably be above-average there. Could be Bobby laying out some trade spin, though, LOL. Not like THAT’S never happened.

Speaking of lefties, did I see that someone on the last blog actually had reservations on trading for Erik Bedard?!? Can’t see the Orioles actually doing that unless they are just absolutely certain they won’t be able to re-sign him, but, man, he’s worth any one of the Braves’ top 10 prospects and two lower-level prospects, easy. Last month’s arm troubles be danged.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it long past the time for Mastercard to retire the priceless commercials? I am so tired of those commercials. Never was a big fan of them. I am even more tired of seeing people with their stupid tee shirts paying homage to that priceless commercial.

Getting an AJC account…. free

Posting a comment on the AJC …. free

Gittin’ smacked around by DOB ….. priceless

Crying about being smacked around by DOB …. annoying

Having your friends cry about you getting smacked around by DOB ….. annoying

Getting smacked around again by DOB because you and your friends would not stop whining about getting smacked around by DOB ….. priceless

Are they still taking tee shirt slogan recs?

By N8

October 28, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, is it two days after the WS that teams can begin negotiating with free agents, as to avoid “tampering” penalties (as if the Braves people have NOT been in some sort of “wink wink” contact with Glavine or his agent).

You speak of this WS being boring and anti-climatic. No way that I (or anybody other than Boston fans) can deny that.

That being said, the Sox finishing off the sweep tonight, brings us THAT MUCH closer to finding out what the Braves 2008 roster might look like.

Bring out the brooms, and fire up the HOT STOVE, I say.

By Lew

October 28, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

DOB-DEFINITELY a FUTURE number two. I didn’t mean to sound like it would be this year. Not with Smoltz and Hudson there, for sure. The main point was his mention that any further development would be accomplished in Atlanta, as opposed to Richmond. I merely mention this because of the prevalent notion among some Denizens that the Braves are incapable of developing anything other than a four or five starter. Bobby sure doesn’t think so-at least not in JoJo’s case.

There was also a great review of the Braves Farm System in the November issue of Chop Talk. What a bunch of stud pitchers in A ball. I think there were six or seven pitchers-all with ERA’s of under 3.00 and K to BB ratios of up to 5-1. I think denizens will be stunned in the very near future with the talent we have coming up and available for trades. Looking at the pitching we gave up at the trade deadline and adding in the like of Hanson, Rohrbaugh, Medlin, Osuna, and others should put to rest the fallacy of our not drafting quality pitching.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

eric the elder, totally agree with you.

By chrisklob

October 28, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

eric the elder,

I attend a lot (around 30) minor league ball games a year. Before the National Anthem is performed they make a similar request. You might be shocked, dismayed and I suspect a little PO’d when you saw how many males do not remove their caps. Pretty pathetic.

Even worse, you’d be surprised how many people will continue their conversations on their cell phones. Totally disrespectful.

By Stinky

October 28, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

Yes, DOB. It does seem pointless to play 162 games over six months in proper baseball weather to determine who the best teams in MLB are. The Three tier playoff system nullifies that.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

It’s 10 days, N8, until Braves can talk to another team’s free agent. Teams have 10-day exclusivity window to negotiate with their own free agents before other teams can talk to them.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

Here is my wish list DOB,ttrade number 1. to Giants:Edgar,Thorman,Tyler Yates. to Braves:Noah Lowry,Fred Lewis this would mean the end of Willie Harris thank God!!!

trade#2 To:Stl.Martin Prado(Cards need second baseman) to:Braves.A.Reyes(has worn out his welcome in the StL.

trade #3 To:Oakland.Chuck James,A.Reyes,Clint Sammons,L.Cormier. to Braves:Joe Blanton…

No signing of Glavine means more to resign Tex…

Then move on the Cubs for Jacque Jones and hit him in the 8 hole. my rotation:Hudson,Smoltz,Lowry,Blanton,Reyes!!! I’ll take my chances with that.

By One More Time

October 28, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

I don’t mean to be redundant but illegality and immorality are captured in the moment and savored whilst we endeavor to make a difference in the lives of those who fall from atop stone pillars and hit the marble floor. Something has to change this American League dominance. I can’t be clearer than that.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

Sigh…. Too much caffeine… Makes me edgy every time.

Talk about a bad weekend….. Va Tech gets beat in final 2 minutes, Virginia runs out of magic and loses to NC State. The Redskins are embarrassed by the Patriots, Denny Hamlin runs out of gas on the restart of the last three laps in the Atlanta race causing a mega crash, Dale Jr. throws a shoe and allows Jimmy Johnson to win under yellow. Go ahead Rockies, complete my misery by throwing in the towel tonight.

And Bob,J….. Do not be discouraged, were with you bro…..

By Heathcliff Paladin

October 28, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

I’m going to bed. It’s not that I’m not interested in the baseball, it’s the total foxup that you have to deal with to see it. Nite.

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

Where does Jo-Jo Reyes fit into a starting rotation that has Smoltz, Hudson, James, Hampton and one or two new starters that are acquired via free agency or trade this offseason?

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

great hustle by helton

By Stinky

October 28, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

There’s no pom poms in baseball.

By semiballcoach

October 28, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

i coach high school football, before 1 of our games the p.a. guy says “do we have time for the National Anthem?”

By eric the elder

October 28, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, I’m not a bit surprised, but if nothing else, it shows that the PA’s directive has no effect on those people. For those who do show respect, the directive is not needed.

I remember reading the history of the National Anthem being played at ball games, but I can’t remember what it is. It just seems that what got started through the force of use has become a ritual through the use of force. It’s a nice little gesture, but tell you truth, I don’t know why we do it at ball games. I don’t object to it, but I don’t see the connection.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

Well said, One More Time. At least I think it was…

Just saw those two with pom-pons and thought same thing. Not something you see in a ballpark. You wouldn’t see that in Fenway.

Oh, well. It is a football town here. And can’t say anything critical of these crowds. Been tremendous….

If Reyes makes the rotation, he’d be fighting for spot at the back end. Much depends on who they get this winter. If they add two pitchers, could be 3-4 fighting for fifth spot, unless someone’s traded….

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

No signing of Glavine means more to resign Tex

No it doesn’t.

Offseason check list:

1) Sign Tom Glavine to one year deal.

2) Trade Edgar Renteria for A.J. Burnett.

3) Convert Brent Lillibridge to center field.

4) Sign Todd Jones to one year deal.

5) Extend Mark Teixeira if at all possible.

By Randy

October 28, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

Although none of the division series were competitive overall, I thought some of the individual games were simply outstanding, and the Padres-Rockies play-in game, though sloppy, was about as exciting as it gets. But, no, don’t think this World Series will get tossed around with ‘91 or ‘01. Hey, at least we’ve had an absolutely ridiculous college football season to entertain us.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

Ron Paul, you should never assume Hampton’s going to be in the rotation. That’d be a bonus, basically, if he gets to opening day healthy….

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

All the while I too am tired of the platoons,Isay give the everyday LF job to Diaz! lineup: 2b K.Johnson ss Y.Escobar 3b C.Jones 1b M.Texiera c.B McCann Rf J francouer Lf M.Diaz cf J.Jones

bench B.Pena c W.Aybar inf F.Lewis of sign M.Ensberg inf sign J Conine inf-of carry 7 relievers

O.Villareal P Moylan M.Acosta R.Ring R.Mahay til Gonzo is ready resign O.Dotel stopper R Soriano

By TNRON

October 28, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, I think Chuck James will be packaged in a trade this winter.I really dont want to trade Lillibridge,but would you do it for Dan Haren or Blanton?Oakland needs a SS and Renteria doesnt fit their usual qualifications,i.e young and inexpensive.I sure would like Haren though.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

And if I were Billy Beane I would absolutely Raid the Mutts and their Stupid G.M. for D.Haren,say J.Maine,L.Milledge,A.Heilman…

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

Joebrave, you not even giving Brandon Jones an opportunity to compete for a job? What if he’s ready?

Also, how much you willing to pay Dotel to be a setup man? Because he told me in Philly at end of season he’d come back to setup, but thought he was worth the $5.5 mill option to be a setup guy. Braves aren’t paying anywhere near that for him to set up.

By N8

October 28, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the correction. Not sure where I got the 2 days from? Either way. The sweep tonight, brings it that much closer.

Only way I don’t want the Red Sox to finish it out tonight, is if it ends up going 6 or 7 games.

No sense in delaying the inevitable, IMO.

Towards the beginning of the initial blog you said:

“To me, this World Series has been one of uninspiring performances…..from vanilla Kelly Clarkson…..”

WOW. I thought that Terrance was the only racist that worked for the AJC!

(Just kidding of course - Just couldn’t resist to give you a good ribbing).

On a side note, I wanna snag a couple of tunes from the new Cult album from I-Tunes. Which would you recommend for somebody who love the whole Electric album? I suppose I could just preview them, but those clips are so short, they’re often not much help.

Ron Paul for President

You asked:

“Where does Jo-Jo Reyes fit into a starting rotation that has Smoltz, Hudson, James, Hampton and one or two new starters that are acquired via free agency or trade this offseason?”

Your first mistake is assuming that Hampton is gonna pitch more than 2 starts in Spring Training. I hope he does - a healthy Mike Hampton helps us a lot, no matter what his role is.

My guess is that Jo Jo is probably more of a lock to make the rotation than Chuck. No real “evidence” of that, other than my gut feeling. Jo Jo appears to have more “upside”, where Chuck is going to be pretty much what we see right now, nothing more, nothing less.

So even if Hampton does contribute, I look for Jo Jo to be “in the mix”. Even if that means trading him for another starter. But like I said, I could see the Braves trading James before Jo Jo. After all, they DID get the Phillies to settle for Bruce Chen in the Ashby deal.

We’ll see…..

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

manny being manny

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

The Rox finally caught Manny being Manny….

By the way, windows open in pressbox tonight, 68 degrees at first pitch. Crowd absolutely roaring on that “Tu-lo!” chant.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Ron Paul are you nuts??????????Todd Jones? for what?He’ll get lit up like a torch in the N.L.

By N8

October 28, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

NOTHING more fitting, than McCarver trying to describe Manny taking two steps “in” before breaking back on the Matsui double, and the Fox broadcast NOT having the right angle on the replay.

My god, does their baseball coverage SUCK.

Period.

McCarver is horrible, and Joe Buck is about as enjoyable to listen to as Chip is when being compared to Skip.

In other words…..he’s NOT.

Boy - oh - Boy. I hope we can hear Buck and McCarver talk about Van Halen again tonight.

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 28, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

LEW,

I would love to read the article in Choptalk about our pitchers in A-Ball. Anyway possible for you to put some of the best paagraphs here on the Blog? or maybe provide an executive summary?

Thanks

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

N8, I only listened to it once before I left town, but really liked “I Assassin” and “Dirty Little Rockstar.”

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

DOB,I think B.Jones needs one more year at AAA.Dotel maybe offer 3.5 mil.Take it or leave offer but right now until everything else is exhausted No Way to Glavine!!

However it would be nice if B.Jones is ready but I just don’t think he is,he was very uninspiring in the games I watched him play…………….

just wanted to know what You thought of my wish list???

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

And by the way for all the nostlgists,I am of the noion tat Yesterday is over,and you can’t get it back…Tom Glavine would’nt help this rotation,wit the exception of maybe innings that’s it…The days of living off the plate are over!!

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

And by the way for all the nostalgists,I am of the notion tat Yesterday is over,and you can’t get it back…Tom Glavine would’nt help this rotation,wit the exception of maybe innings that’s it…The days of living off the plate are over!!

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

Joebrave, perhaps. But B Jones did hit nearly .300 with 100 RBIs between double-A and triple-A last season, with 19 homers and a plus-.360 OBP.

But they wouldn’t hesitate to send him back to the minors if they didn’t have room for him or if he struggled mightily in spring, either case….

Oh, and 3.5 mill too much for Dotel as a setup man

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

Remember this….. The goal is to be 8 major league ready starting pitchers deep by the end of spring training. They do not all have to start with Atlanta.

By ssiscribe

October 28, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

Top of the evening, denizens, on this, the final night of baseball season. I’ll keep this short, since the wife is falling asleep and after running all day, I may not be too far behind in that department.

Great job by Lester getting out of that jam with the high fastball that Holliday couldn’t get on up in the zone. Both guys, Lester and Cook, are throwing it well.

Count me among those who would love to see the Rockies win just one game, for the people of Denver and for guys like Todd Helton (to experience winning a World Series game at home). But this Series, and this season, is over, and I think we all know that. Just a matter of whether the Rox can wiggle out a W tonight and earn the right to play tomorrow night against Josh Beckett, or if it’s finished before the sun comes up.

Yeah, sweeps suck though (even though the Cardinals didn’t sweep last year; they won it in five games) because there is nothing with more drama than a playoff series going six or seven games, especially in baseball. But no way this one goes back to Boston. The Red Sawx are flying back to Beantown with the trophy, while DOB flies home for some deserved down time.

And for what it’s worth, I think the 2007 Boston team is better than the 2004 team (question they’re asking on Fox).

I WILL NOT miss the crap that comes with every major sporting event, such as the “You Can’t Ignore” phrase being worked into the pregame show, playing off the really annoying Chevy Malibu commercials (the one with the bank robbers is pretty clever; the one with the stupid jogger running into the car has reached the annoyance status of that stupid yawning Diet Pepsi Max commercial we were subjected to during the second half of Braves’ season on Sportsouth).

Wow, for a guy who hasn’t pitched in two months, Aaron Cook looks pretty darn good. So, too, does Lester. Who would think, a pitcher’s duel at Coors? It’s early, though.

But not for me. It’s late, and duty calls in the morning. Gotta rest while I can, since I’ve got three roadies coming up the next five weeks, including the return trip to Vegas after Thanksgiving.

So for now, I’m outta here. If the Series plays on tomorrow night, I’ll be back. Otherwise, been nice bloggin with y’all during the Fall Classic. Hope my two cents worth added a little something to the conversation. Heaven knows I enjoyed reading it.

DOB, great job at the Series. Safe travels, my friend. Talk with y’all soon, denizens.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By N8

October 28, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the insight on the Cult tunes.

As far as “Manny being Manny”? I know we all (or most of us) get/got on Andruw for being, well….Andruw. But Manny is different. .

Manny can “get away” with being Manny in the field, due to the Monster, and that little fact that the guy FLAT OUT RAKES at the plate. Think about it. We put up with “Andruw being Andruw” at the plate because he “saves runs” with his glove.

Well. For every mistake that Manny makes on the bases or in LF, he knocks in 2 or 3 at the plate.

So while, being kinda old-school and liking my favorite players to hustle ALL THE TIME, would cause me much frustration watching Manny play in a Braves uniform, I’d give damn near ANYTHING to have that bat in our lineup.

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Tom Glavine would’nt help this rotation

Yes he would. 200+ innings and an around four ERA for a third or fourth starter is a huge improvement. A low-risk, one year deal for Glavine makes all the sense in the world.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

DOB any news on Willy Aybar as far as His rehab???????

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Gil, very true. Braves have to have a surplus. I mean, when you’ve got Smoltz pleading for it, you know it’s necessary.

Tough as he is, Smoltz knows he’s gonna probably need to skip a start or two next season in order to stay healthy and effective. Even he knows he’s in the home stretch of his career.

I still think he’s got a couple good years left, but him saying he hopes Braves have six guys capable of starting on next year’s 25-man roster tells me he knows what his body can handle and it’s probably not another 35-start, 220-inning season. Maybe not even 200 innings.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, read the Edgar article. Thought the quotes you got from Lowell and Varitek were interesting. Sounds like they think he got a raw deal in Boston. It also sounds like they wish they still had him playing short for them.

Interesting that Lowell knew the exact stats for Edgar in Boston. Lowell was not on that 2005 team so for him to know that, it sounds like maybe players in Boston talk about wishing Edgar was still there after watching Lugo and Gonzalez provide little offensively for the past two seasons. Or maybe I am reading too much into it. Maybe Lowell is just a stat rat who memorizes other people’s stats.

I hope they don’t trade Edgar. I understand there is merit to it but a bench of Yunel/Kelly, Lillibridge, Aybar, Brandon Jones/ Diaz, Sammons/Pena? would be very strong. Not too much of a falloff when guys get hurt. COuld keep Edgar and Chipper healthier by giving them a day off a week or so.

I hope Wren values the bench more than Schuerholz and Cox have. I understand Renteria is valuable in a trade but I don’t think we are gonna get equal value for him unless some team out there is desperate.

There is nothing wrong with quality homegrowns like Escobar waiting their turn maybe a year longer than they should while still providing strong support off the bench. Escobar got over 70 starts anyway this year and he only got called up in June or so.

By NASCARfan

October 28, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Dane Cook = Booby Cox

Both are overrated, unimaginative, and inexplicably worshipped by thousands of mush-headed morons who have no idea how bad they truly are.

By eric the elder

October 28, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

Five months until opening day, 2008. Five months during which we can prop up our feet on the hot stove and dream about what might be.

Let’s not get into a “can’t wait” mind set, though, and wish our lives away. Not even the Braves are worth that. The only certain thing is that the opening day roster won’t resemble anything that we might imagine now.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

Scribe, very true about Cook. Count me among those surprised by his stuff and command.

By the way, didn’t say last year was a sweep. Said this would be third in four years (Red Sox in ‘04, White Sox in ‘05).

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

Hard to forecast the future,Some are calling for Lillibridge in the OF,I personally don’t see it.I see him possibly at 2b either here or with another team…..

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

damn. i love how lowell plays and hustles

By N8

October 28, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

joebrave

Normally I agree with you on everything. Not that you care if I agree with you or not. LOL! But this next comment is fairly ignorant, IMO.

You said:

“Tom Glavine would’nt help this rotation,wit the exception of maybe innings that’s it”

That is EXACTLY what this team needs. We have a GREAT lineup. Even without Andruw. In fact, let me rephrase that ESPECIALLY without Andruw, this lineup will thrive. That man killed more rallies than he starter or maintained last season. Add to that our bullpen was pretty spectacular considering we lost our BIGGEST offseason acquisition, in Mike Gonzalez in MAY!!.

You add Glavine’s “innings” to the 3 hole in our rotation, and “bump” everybody back a bit and our bullpen matches up with ANYBODY’S in baseball. Not to mention, I think the bullpen will be better next year with the young guys contributing more next year (and that includes Joey Devine).

THEN, you add the fact that if we get to the “dance”, we’ve got as good of a 1-2 punch at the top of our rotation as anybody, as well.

Would it be better to acquire (or develop) a younger, stronger, more dominant pitcher than Glavine this off-season? Absolutely. In fact, I hope he is 1 of 2 pitchers we add to the rotation.

While Glavine might not be the longterm “answer” to our rotation issues. To say that he can’t/won’t help this team is ignorant.

But you are entitled to your opinion. Let’s just say that if we can acquire a pitcher that is as consistant as him (for about the same ammount of money AND without giving up the farm), I’d be all for it. But the “deal” he is going to settle for, cannot be passed on, IMO.

L8r.

By AdirondackDave

October 28, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

N8 - Well put. However, we do have Manny’s bat in the lineup. He’s called Tex and he doesn’t bring any of Manny being Manny with him. JS gets paid big money to figure these situations out. I’ll be extremely disappointed if he and Frank Wren can’t pull this off.

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

Maybe not even 200 innings.

If that happens, it means John Smoltz’s 2009 option won’t be automatic. I really would like to see Smoltz stay in 2009 and 2010 like his current contract allows.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

Manny is the reincarnation of Lonnie Smith….. All bat, no glove, not so hot on the base paths either. He’s such a hot dog his middle name should be Oscar.

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

Latest on Willy Aybar:

0.150

By Glavine XX

October 28, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

DAVE the feeling is braves trading edgar and upgradeing starting pitching, with maybe johnson somewhere in outfield so two young talented kids to play. (yunel,brent)do you see something like this happening? the big goal to me is pitching since we can hit.

By Stinky

October 28, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

No matter what the FOX talking heads say, Henry is not #2.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

we do have Manny’s bat in the lineup. He’s called Tex

Tex is very good but he is not, never has been, and never will be Manny with a bat in his hands.

By Greg in TN

October 28, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Evening lads and lasses of the blog…

Nice slide there by Mike Lowell to earn run number two for the Bosox tonight. The Commissioner’s trophy is being polished and ready for the presentation to Henry, Werner, Lucchino and Epstein (sounds like a law firm, doncha think?)

Eric/Chris, I see the same things when I go to a sporting event, and I’ve done a little PA work for an area high school and a reminder is a part of what I say prior to the anthem. I have been astounded at what I have seen done during the singing/playing of the anthem over the years. It’s sad that there are those that just flat out don’t care or know any better. My wife wanted to wear a Pelican’s hat to Myrtle Beach for one of the games we attended, and I reminded her just before about the removal of hats during the presentation of colors and singing of the anthem just because she’s not used to wearing them all that often.

DOB, I agree with you. The days of the Red Sox being the hunter are gone now. They have the bullseye on their backs and will receive very little in terms of sympathy from fans that always had respect and hopes that the Sox got the monkey off their backs. It was the same thing we had in the early 90s with the “Bless their hearts since they’ve been so bad for so long” sentiment from fans of other teams.

I too am fine with seeing what Lillibridge and Jordan Schafer can do in fall ball and in the spring. I feel like Schafer won’t be MLB ready until 2009, but it’s great having options available if we need to give them a good long look.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

N8,I see your point I just said if Blanton,and Lowry can be obtained,do that instead,if not then if Glavine is the next best option then do it,me personally I take the two younger starters,ahead of Tommy….

No offence taken at the ignorant statement,just don’t think Tommy will help that much,he is a year older than Smoltz,and age does factor here…

NascarFan,you have got to be the most asinine,beligerant,Jerk on this blog!!!! the only boob on here is you!!!!

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

One big difference, GIl: Manny’s one of the very best hitters in baseball. He’s got 1,539 RBIs in the past 13 seasons, and a .313 career average with a 490 homers, .409 OBP and 1.002 OPS.

That’s rock-solid, first-ballot Hall of Fame.

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

with maybe johnson somewhere in outfield so two young talented kids to play. (yunel,brent)

Kelly Johnson is not a talented kid?

By StingerSplash

October 28, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Are those white towels waving the NL surrendering?

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

The Braves had another Devine a long time ago,I believe his name was Adrian Devine,not that good either!!!

By N8

October 28, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave

Agreed on the Tex comparison…to an extent. For sure on the lack of “baggage” department.

But Manny’s “162 game average” from baseball-reference’s website is 41 HR and 133 RBI with a .316 average over 15 years!!.

Tex’s 162 game average is 37 HR and 120 RBI with a .286 average. Again, not that far off, and I do believe he is just hitting his prime. But his “averages” are only over 5 years.

What Manny has done over the last decade is impressive (at the plate that is).

Gil

“Manny is the reincarnation of Lonnie Smith”

To compare Manny to Lonnie is a massive insult to Manny, no matter what you think of him. It took Lonnie 17 seasons to amass 98 HR’s and 533 RBI. Basically what Manny does every 3 years.

Sorry dude. While funny, the comparison isn’t close.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

I had forgotten about Lillibridge’s base stealing prowess. He is not the fastest guy but he is a smart base runner. Speed is a God given gift base running is a skill. Stealing bases is an art form unto itself.

Oh, and I still think Furcal was older than the 19 he claimed to be when he came up.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Joebrave, Aybar already completed his rehab, just before having surgery on his broken hamate bone at the end of the season….

Ron Paul, I’m not trying to be doom-and-gloom at all on Smoltz. I think he’ll be his usual self next year, just might need to skip a start or two, cut back on innings like he did this year.

And I think he’ll finish his career with the Braves.

By Braves Fan 79

October 28, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

You mean rookies were put on the roster to help the red sox?
If John Scherultz had used this same formula and depended on escobar ect….coming out of spring training instead of signing free agent CRAP like woodcrap and wilson the Braves…not the Rockies would be playing tonight! And they would of given the sox a MUCH better matchup!! And id rather take a chance on a young rook in CF than overpay for a mediocure free agent…id rather see that $ go to another top of the line starter!
And anyone who dosent think Glavine should be a top priority is a fool.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 28, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

whoa! lots of posts deleted tonight! may be a record for a non-meltdown night.

and the sox are up 2-0 and this is some kinda boring baseball. where are the braves with exciting pete orr and chris woodward?

the blogger is right - there will likely be many changes in the roster. wren must be an aggressive bird and go after pitching and a solid center fielder.

look for bobby to bring in an old re-tread to platoon if a rookie wins the job.

and after tonight - no more baseball. sad.

By AdirondackDave

October 28, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Braveheart - You’re right of course, Tex is not Manny exactly with a bat. Manny has a higher lifetime BA though even that may balance out by the time their careers are over. As for the power numbers, there isn’t a dime’s worth of diffference between the two, and given Tex’s defense and Manny being Manny, I’d take Tex in a flaming second.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Actually, JJS, only two posts deleted on this new blog all night, and yours was one of them. We really aren’t interested in the tired schoolyard insult-slinging between you and another, so why would you try to provoke more of it?

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Glavine-yes, Blanton-yes, Haren-hell yes, Snell-hell yes.

Lowry? NO!

Noah Lowry had the same amount of strikeouts as he did walks in 2007 at 87. He had a WHIP of 1.55. His ERA though was a misleading and very lucky 3.92. No way does Lowry post a sub-4.50 ERA next season. Why do you think Giants’ fans want to trade this young pitcher so badly? It’s not just his recent injuries and arm problems.

Plus Lowry is up for arbitration and will get a lot of money because of his shiney ERA.

By StingerSplash

October 28, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Who would have thought these two kids would be this good on the mound in Coors Field pitching against these lineups. Cook and Lester have been terrific, plain and simple. It says something about their make-up, maybe because of what they have been through, that the enormity of the moment doesn’t seem to rattle them.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Helluva night for Lester, brought ‘em within 10 outs of the promised land, only three hits allowed. “We can take it from here, kid,” or something to that effect from Francona.

By the way, Ortiz standing next to Pedroia talking to the rookie during the pitching change, it was hilarious. Oritz just dwarfed him, made him look like a batboy.

By chrisklob

October 28, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Gil, you’re right about Furcal. He was almost 23 when he was called up from AA to Atlanta.

After Sept. 11, there were literally hundreds of guys, almost exclusively of foreign origin, whose ages and/or names changed once border security became more strict. It was very common for a guy to use the birth certificate of a younger brother or cousin to document their name and birth date and other vital information. Most guys went up in age; some just by months, others by years. Some guys true ages were actually younger than they originally stated too.

Has anyone checked our resident Ugandan journalists birth certificate lately?

By webhead

October 28, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

You guys are insane. No way Braves pay Tex 20 Mil a year . NO WAY!!!

By N8

October 28, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

joebrave

Don’t take my ignorant comment as being a slam on you. I’m right there with you on the “age” factor. It WILL play in (along with Smoltz’ age as well).

My problem (and I’ll assume many GM’s problems), is that they put a team together based on the previous year’s results. So it is EASY to say that in 2007 Glavine most definitely would’ve not only helped us, his absence in NY would’ve surely shifted the balance of power.

Problem is 2007 is over. Maybe the Mets don’t have the same “issues” in 2008.

A team should be built based on what you think players will do in the future (even if it’s short term thinking), as opposed to what they did the year before. Do we need a BIGGER example of a one year to the next shift as we saw from Mark Redman?

So from that angle, I too believe that younger players would suit our future needs better, but having said that, I still believe that based on our current roster, Glavine IS an upgrade. Add to that, I’m not a glavine/union hater. I like baseball. So there is some personal nostalgia in bringing him “home”. But if doing that wouldn’t help the Braves win, I could let that feeling go.

But I do think he will help.

By Tyler

October 28, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

How much do you think it would take to get Erik Bedard? Just want some input, because I know he does has arm problems…

By Stinky

October 28, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

Holy Crap!!!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

WOW… That Mike Lowell sure is a lucky guy, always around winning teams….:-))) Reminds me of Jeff Conine, always on winning ball clubs.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Lowell’s a stud, man. Just a really solid player, and I can’t believe Red Sox haven’t already re-signed him….

Stinger, as for Lester, easy to see why Schuerholz told Red Sox that Lester needed to be in the package if they wanted to trade for Andruw late in the 2006 season.

Too bad they didn’t get that one done, huh? Of course, also easy to see why Boston wouldn’t give up Lester (this was before last year’s cancer scare), Coco Crisp and hard-throwing Craig Hansen for Andruw, too. That’s believed to be what Braves were asking.

Hansen hasn’t done much in limited major league stints, but he’s 6-6, 23 years old and has a great arm.

By chrisklob

October 28, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, speaking of Aybar, is he playing ball this winter? I looked and saw that he did not appear in any games this summer after his rehab but I can’t find any info either way if he’s playing in either the Caribbean or Mexican Leagues.

By ssiscribe

October 28, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Came upstairs to shut down the laptop, and just thought I’d toss this out there, for what it’s worth:

The Braves traded one South Georgia guy, Adam Wainwright, as part of the trade for another South Georgia guy, J.D. Drew, on Dec. 13, 2003. Here we are, less than four years later, and St. Simons Island resident Wainwright has won a World Series ring. In three more innings, if the score holds, Hahaira resident Drew will win a World Series ring.

And neither one did it with the Braves, who won their last World Series a dozen years ago tonight.

Like this season, I’m gone.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

World Series MVP prediction:

Papelbon.

Not saying he deserves it, but I think he’ll be the one getting it, especially if he gets the save tonight.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Okay, I admit it was a little over the top with the comparison of Manny to Lonnie Smith….. But just barely.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

I look for the Dodgers to pry Johan Santana away fro the Twins too!!

By N8

October 28, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

I should point out that in my last post, I made a point talking about us “chasing” the Mets.

YES, I realize that Philadelphia won the division. But I think as long as Minaya is in NY as the GM, ownership will continue to give him an unlimited budget to build that team up.

In fact, I almost guarantee that they will do WHATEVER it takes to acquire Johan Santana, whether it’s via trade this year, or as a free agent following next year. No chance in hell of Johan being a Twin beyond this year. No way. Not with how good he is, how much money he’ll demand, how much demand there will be for his services. Oh and the little hissy fit he through this year at the deadline, when the twins “sold” more players than they “bought” for the stretch run. He wants out. Period.

I wonder what THAT would do to the balance of power in the NL EAST. Actually, I know EXACTLY what it would do.

Yikes.

By AdirondackDave

October 28, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

DOB - Manny is actually one of my favorite quirky guys and a sure Hall of Famer. Wondering how does that Manny being Manny stuff play in the clubhouse?

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

So what was that, Varitek being Varitek?

Ron Paul, agreed on Papelbon MVP if he pitches well tonight.

Chrisklob, like I said, he broke his hamate bone after he came back from rehab, that next week. Can’t play for 6-8 weeks after a hamate-bone break (it’s a tiny bone in the hand, by the thumb).

I’d guess he’ll start playing winter ball sometime in late November or early December, but need to find out for sure.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Turn out the lights the party’s over,So long Rox ne’er we knew ye!!

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

dang shame about hamaete bones,Ruined Bob Horner’s career…

By chrisklob

October 28, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the update and sorry for making you repeat yourself. I either missed it or just don’t remember the “hammock” bone break.

By StingerSplash

October 28, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I remember listening to Hansen’s major league debut. His first three pitches were: 97, 96, 98. He has a dead nasty slider, but I think control, perhaps in more ways than one, has been an issue.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 28, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

oh, the new blog. not sure journalist was provoking there, dob, but call it what you will. as we have seen all day, dob is certainly more tactful than this journalist.

season is almost over. some bloggers have already left for the night. to those that remain, better luck next year. g’night.

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

So comes the end of another Season,!4 days we will be subjected to Red Sox bias,and then the news will subside,If we could only get the fall league ganes televised….On to the Winter Meetings in Dec.but first must come the G.M. meetings in Nov.I wonder if we can get Mr. Fly to attend those? alas is there no end to this belegirence called Big Media Baseball,like no other teams exist???we’ll rant and discuss and appreciate any tid bit DOB throws us until Spring…Happy Holiday Season all

By Greg in TN

October 28, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

Brad Hawpe is doing his part for the second night in a row in making sure that the Rockies don’t go quietly.

Gang, not sure how much you’ve heard about this yet, but there was a play in Division III yesterday that brought back memories of Cal-Stanford in 1982, minus the band. (Here’s the link)

By joebrave

October 28, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

Wonder,if St Louis has entertained ideas of trading Albert Pujols?They have many many,many hples to fill!!!

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 28, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

Dave O’Brien…A box score from winter ball shows Brandon Jones played a game in CF. I know it has been gone over many times that B. Jones is a corner outfielder. Is it possible the braves are trying him out in center as one of the internal options you stated earlier?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

Under the “Oh no you didn’t department”. Can’t believe Appelbee’s use the term “you people” when referring to the brother sitting on a park bench. Where is Terrence Moore when we need him?

By NostraDumb@ss

October 28, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

DOB really burning his bridges behind him, AJC must be shutting down the blog after tonight. Always next year huh DOB? Some don’t have those short memories though!

By chrisklob

October 28, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

Just say this on Foxsports.com and thought it was interesting:

*DENVER (AP) - Alex Rodriguez opted out of his $252 million, 10-year contract with the Yankees on Sunday in what appears to be the end of his career with New York.

Rodriguez’s decision, announced by agent Scott Boras during Game 4 of the World Series, makes him eligible to become a free agent. Rodriguez loses the final $72 million in guaranteed salary in the contract, of which $21.3 million was to be covered by payments from the Texas Rangers to the Yankees.*

This, if nothing else, should keep things interesting this winter.

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

Brian Fuentes blows.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

Yes joebrave, ESPN can televise Australian Rules Football but cannot televise baseball from the Caribbean.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

classy move by arod and boras. announce that they are opting out in the 8th inning of the world series to steal the shine from the red sox tomorrow. real classy.

By Ron Paul for President

October 28, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal breaking news: Alex Rodriguez opting out of his contract with Yankees!

By AdirondackDave

October 28, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Holy smoke… A-rod ofting out of his contract. Rangers off the hook for 21M.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

And the Texas Rangers rejoice with the A-Rod announcement…. Saves them 21 mil

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

there’s a freaking world series going on already. the red sox are about to sweep and all they wanna talk about on fox is arod? chrissakes. i am a yankees fan and this is stupid, annoying, and disrespectful to the game and to the red sox and also to the rockies.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

Boras being Boras: During Game 4 of the World Series, he sends out a memo saying A-Rod is opting out of his contract. Classic Boras. I’m told Selig is furious that he did it during the game, not that Selig can do a thing about it.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

Does this mean Texas will be able to sign some decent pitchers with the extra money they will save?

By N8

October 28, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

DOB

“I’m told Selig is furious that he did it during the game, not that Selig can do a thing about it.”

At this point in the game, is there really ANYBODY that gives a rat’s azz what Selig is “furious” over?

He let the steroid scandal get out of hand. He let that debacle “tie” happen at the All-Star game. He chose to have the All-Star game determine home-field in the WS, and it appears that neither he, nor any of his old-timer buddy owners, have any interest in letting Mark Cuban buy the Cubs (which would be good for baseball, IMO).

So, I’ll repeat the question.

WHO CARES WHAT BUD SELIG THINKS?!?

Not me.

By N8

October 28, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville

“Does this mean Texas will be able to sign some decent pitchers with the extra money they will save?”

If you were a pitcher would you want to pitch in that ballpark?

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan, it’s possible but not probable, on B. Jones. Not at all probable. I was told by several different Braves officials that he’s a corner outfielder, NOT a center fielder….

Can someone tell me what Nostrawhatever’s talking about?

Oh, nevermind.

No, we’re not shutting down a thing, but you can keep hoping. And please, I hope you’re one of those with a long memory.

By AdirondackDave

October 28, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

Gil - If I’m not mistaken, it means the Rangers will save 7M per year for 3 years. Can’t get much quality pitching for that. Maybe a 4-5 guy or help for the pen.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

Gil, how ‘bout if they use that money to make an offer to another Boras client, guy named ‘Druw?

By TennesseePaul

October 28, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

DOB: Couldn’t agree with you more about Lowell. I like that guy. He’s a solid player. But as for resigning him… Boras’s memo probably has something to do with it. Everyone knew it was coming, only a matter of waiting for it to happen. As good as Lowell is, A-Rod is better. But technically they could have them both. They’d just have to dump Lugo on some team and move A-Rod back to Short and keep Lowell at 3rd. That’d be one fearsome line up.

By StingerSplash

October 28, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

The New Yorkers love the A-Rod stuff coming out tonight. That way they don’t have to pay attention to the Red Sox.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

N8, good point. I know Boras couldn’t care less what he thinks.

Total tweak by Boras. No other reason whatsoever to make that announcement tonight.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

Hey, I might be easy but I’m not cheap. :-))) They really should have made it a domed stadium…. Now it’s just doomed.

By Lew

October 28, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan-It was more along the lines of listing the leaders in the Braves’ Farm System in all categories. I’ll try to put them up tomorrow and give some quotes from Bobby Cox’s and Schuerholz’s columns. I just now saw your question and I’m too tired to deal with it all tonight. Check in the morning or early afternoon and I’ll post the pertinent info.

BTW Denizens-Stinky swears to me that by all he holds Holy (whatever that may be), that he has not been the Troll depositing the Troll droppings this week and has apologized for past piles. There Stinky-In the name of fairness I passed your message on.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, can’t see Red Sox going after A-Rod. No way. Too much baggage, too much bad blood. Remember the fight? They’ve got a very tight-knit clubhouse, can’t see them even considering A-Rod.

By N8

October 28, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

How big was Kielty’s HR in the 8th NOW?

By AdirondackDave

October 28, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

Wow … a one-run game. Tomorrow’s still a possibility.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

this 8th inning has been going on for over a half hour.

home run.

hideki gets decked again!

ATKINS!

Don’t dare delay the inevitable Rockies!

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

Unbelievable. Okajima gives it up AGAIN!

I don’t think I could’ve resisted going to Papelbon before that homer. He could have gotten five outs, had some margin for error, then rested all winter.

Now, they’d better hope he can get five outs and be perfect in the process, or at least scoreless.

By doc

October 28, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

only boras can out do what the yankees did which was to bring the spotlight on them rather than the series with the way they played out the melodrama of the essential firing of torre with their slow and prolonged take it or leave it offer and continue to do their well publicized interviews while the series goes on. kind of surprised the yankees didnt hire someone tonight or maybe the sox’ knockout was so unexpected that it couldnt be carried off during a weekend game. look for the yankees’ announcement during the red sox parade to celebrate their series championship.

hard to believe there has been, what? only 17 of a possible 28 world series games in the last four years and that is without a player strike. i guess that is some real lost revenues there all the way around. well with the home run maybe some more money will flow into mlb coffers. is someone trying to do a wohlers? thought so last night until the sox scored four to put everyone out of their misery.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

And now BOTH Manny and Big Papi are out of the game, too….

By TennesseePaul

October 28, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

DOB: Well, we’ll see. This winter is going to be pretty interesting and the dollars thrown around are going to be astounding. Boras is taking AJ and A-Rod to the FA market. Looks like he’s got another ivory back scratcher coming his way.

By N8

October 28, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

DOB

That comment about Selig wasn’t a slam towards you relaying the notion that Selig was furious.

I just don’t like the guy. I think he has done everything within his power to help bring down a game he CLAIMS he loves. I don’t doubt that he loves the game. But I just don’t care for what he’s done as commissioner.

You gotta kind of appreciate Boras’ “brass balls”, the way he rubs everybody’s noses in it, don’t you?

Besides. Selig has done NOTHING to try and curb the rising salaries in MLB since the mid-90’s. After all, doesn’t he have to approve of all contracts and transactions?

The way I see it, he allowed the A-Rod mess to happen in the first place, so he can make his bed he slept in.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 28, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Rockies are going to make the Soxs earn this save…..

And what would the Braves Nation clamor for if they suddenly found an extra 7 mil per year?

And yes DOB, it’s bad when the seller knows exactly how much money the buyer has. Oh well, it’s all monopoly money anyway. MLB will increase from 2 minutes to three minutes the time between innings to allow for more commercials to be sold. Works for football and basketball. Not so good for the fans but oh well.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I could be wrong about A-Rod. Stranger things have happened — but not many stranger things.

I’d be shocked if Red Sox go after him.

Whew — Hawpe gave that one a ride.

And here we go, down to the last six outs of the season … or so it would appear.

By hk

October 28, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

… SEC #2 in Harris and USA polls, but #1 in the computer polls !!!

… (hmmm, maybe those computer guys aren’t so bad after all :))

… here are bar charts grouped two ways, by conference and by polling group …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/bcs3.htm

… woof woof woof !!!…… Woof !!

By StingerSplash

October 28, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

Since Ortiz and Ramirez were the last two batters of the previous inning, I don’t know how important that would be, unless the Rockies tie this up. But the bottom of their order is up next.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

Gil, sad thing is they’re already at 3 minutes for the World Series. Ghastly, isn’t it?…

N8, agreed. I knew what you meant.

Happen to be sitting next to a guy with a pretty direct pipeline to Selig, was only reason I knew Bud was po’d.

By Greg in TN

October 28, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

Interesting turn of events at the ‘ol ballpark tonight in terms of off the field news on A-Rod.

Darth Agent has made a ton of cash using the Yankees as leverage and now the A-Rod derby will be Bronx-less. Bora$ could care less if the Braves do this to him (along the same lines that we did when we bid Andruw adieu), however the Yankees going home takes a bit more leverage away from him. I would think he would have been banking on this possibility anyway, but without Steinbrenner and Sons’ in there as a possibility, it has to at least help the other teams that do decide to take part and help their bargaining positions.

By AdirondackDave

October 28, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Red Sox publicly make a play for A-Rod, if for no other reason than to aggrivate the Yankees. Now that would be enjoyable.

By TennesseePaul

October 28, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this

DOB: Stranger things indeed. An added twist, if Cashman sticks to his guns the Yanks will not negotiate with A-Rod meaning they will be in the market for a 3B. Lowell would probably be on their list of options…

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

HK, so which conference is rated first in those two where the SEC is second? I tried to upload your thing and couldn’t get it, though I was hurrying and might have screwed something up.

Which conference is rated first in the BCS overall thing?

By StingerSplash

October 29, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Still sitting next to Haudricourt, are you?

By N8

October 29, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

DOB

I figured you knew I wasn’t ripping you.

WOW. How close was THAT shot at the wall?

Damn humidor. LOL!

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

ELLSBURY … that’s your Series MVP, at least it should be.

Great catch. What a player this kid is.

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

Greg: I’m not so sure. A-Rod got a quarter of a billion from the Rangers the first time through… Borass will find a way to make his money even without the Yanks at the table.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this

Stinger, that’s what I meant — if Rockies sent it to extras, no Papi or Manny.

And Carroll just about sent it to extras with that liner that Ellsbury caught at the wall.

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Wow, Papelbon was starting to get all Wohlers up there…

By A-ville Ranger

October 29, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

I guess I should say something good about the champion Bosox……they ain’t the Yankees…congratulations chowder heads.

By Ron Paul for President

October 29, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Red Sox win the World Series.

Now let’s get that hot stove action going!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 29, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

Turn out the lights, the party’s over.

Nite all….

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Papelbon three saves in the series, and 1-2/3 scoreless with one hit tonight … he’ll probably get it. We’ll know right away.

Braves sure know how Rockies feel right now, huh? Watching opposing team celebrate on your field, that’s gotta really bite.

By chrisklob

October 29, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

Only 111 days until we hear the beautiful words: pitchers and catchers report to camp.

I can’t wait.

I also can’t wait for the hot stove to heat up. What happens in the off-season is almost as interesting as what happens during the season.

By Paul

October 29, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

the rockies are going to come back here in the 9th and win this game and the world series too. quote me on it.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

Now that Rockies fans have started heading for exits, all the Red Sox fans have moved to sections behind the visitor’s dugout, and I’m telling you, there are at least several thousand of them here.

By StingerSplash

October 29, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

At least Jimmy Fallon and Drew Barrymore (who cannot act) aren’t there to besmirch this one.

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 29, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

Lew, Thanks I will look forward to reading what you see fit to write. One good thing about being in Mountain time zone… games end at 10:00PM not midnight.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

LOWELL is MVP. Very good choice. Surprising, but shouldn’t be, I guess.

If you guys knew him, you’d like him even more. Classy, smart fella.

By N8

October 29, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Wow. It’s over huh? I missed the final out and subsequent celebration.

My four year old puked all over herself and her bed, right after the 2nd out was recorded.

She took the “words” right out of my mouth. LOL!

By StingerSplash

October 29, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Wow, does Selig look absolutely humorless right now. Even more than usual.

By Greg in TN

October 29, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

TennPaul, you have a great point. I’ve said this before, there’s always a GM out there desperate to make a splash and an owner with money burning a hole in their pocket. I just like the idea of Darth Agent having to work a little extra harder to earn his cut.

Not to say that he doesn’t work hard already. The guy does his homework for sure.

Okay denizens, Series is over, shall we start the Bulova countdown clock until Frank Wren can pick up the phone and call Gregg Clifton to begin our Mamushka dance? T-minus ten days and counting.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

Stinger, you’re right: She can’t act.

All those Red Sox fans behind the dugout just did a “So good, so good, so good!” in unison. Pretty cool.

By Greg in TN

October 29, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

Congrats to Mike Lowell for Series MVP. Was thinking he’d be a good choice especially with that homer late.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

I underestimated the Red Sox contingent. They’re still coming down from the upper deck, and now they’ve pretty well filled the lower bowl from the left-field foul pole to home plate, then about half of the lower bowl on the first-base side, too.

I’d say there’s at LEAST 8,000 Red Sox fans here, and that might be a conservate estimate. They’re all chanting “Let’s go Red Sox, let’s go Red Sox….”

I’d guess about four times as many Red Sox fans as there were White Sox fans at the clinching win in Houston a couple years ago.

By Ron Paul for President

October 29, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

Lowell World Series MVP? Shocker. I figured Papelbon or Ellsbury would have gotten it.

Rumors galore:

According to the St. Paul Pioneer Press, the Nationals, White Sox, Braves, Yankees and Dodgers are ‘expected to bid big’ on free-agent OF Torii Hunter.

Multiple reports in the last few months have noted how Hunter rejected a four-year, $56 million offer from the Twins, which Hunter has denied.

http://www.metsblog.com/

I don’t believe it. I think the Braves are too focused on pitching to pay their center fielder even more in 2008 than 2007.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this

The Rockies hit .218 with a 7.68 ERA in the Series.

Yeah, that’ll get you beat.

Atkins was 2-for-13, Hawpe 4-for-16 with eight strikeouts, Tulowitzki 3-for-13….

OK, the crowd just did a “Yankees suck, Yankees suck” chant. Never too far out of the minds of Red Sox Nation….

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

Red Sox hit .333 with an incredible 18 doubles, three homers and 29 runs in four games, with a 2.50 ERA.

Ellsbury was 7-for-16 (.438) with four doubles and three RBIs, Lowell was 6-for-15 with three doubles, a homer and four RBIs, Lugo was 5-for-13, Ortiz was 5-for-15 with three doubles and four RBIs, Pedroia was 5-for-18 with a homer and four RBIs, and Varitek was 5-for-15 with five RBIs.

Now that’s balance. And they did it with Manny only having four hits and two RBIs.

Sure helps when patient, disciplined hitters draw almost as many walks (19) as they have strikeouts (20).

By hk

October 29, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

DOB … just poked the link, seems to work OK …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/bcs3.htm

… if you look at the second chart down,

… Harris and USA polls - Big12 #1, SEC #2, PAC-10 #3 …

… computer guys - SEC #1, ACC #2, Big12 #3…

… overall BCS - Big12 #1 (barely) SEC #2, PAC-10 a distant #3 …

… there’s a table below the charts that shows how I figured it …

… first game I ever saw was Fenway Park (1939), happy for the guys ..

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this

That was a good night, folks. Hope you all enjoyed it as much as I did.

And despite it being a series sweep, I had a good time on the blog these past five or six days.

Thanks much

By chrisklob

October 29, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the in-game blogging during the series. Oh hell, thanks for the whole season! Your blog is a lot of fun to read and participate in. On behalf of all of us, thanks for your work. We appreciate the extra work that you put in to keep it up.

By Brad in MT

October 29, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this

Thanks for everything DOB and fellow bloggers…it was a great season

By MikeS

October 29, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

I hope TP and our sticks took notice of the Red Sox patient, disciplined approach at the plate. I sure would like to see the Braves develop that approach throughout the organization (not just with Chipper, McCann, KJ as it is now).

Ditto all the thanks DOB. I’m glad you got to do the WS blogging and even more glad that you enjoyed yourself out there while doing it. I know we all did (well all except one maybe). Take a couple days off and then lets keep this thing going through a sure to be interesting off-season! ;)

By dunwoody in denver

October 29, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this

Well, I was hoping for a dual Broncos/Rockies game tomorrow; I guess you can’t have everything…

Two positives:

1. My LoDo loft (2 blocks from Coors) has increased $11K in value since Oct. 1.

2. I live in Colorado. ‘Nuff said.

DOB, see you next year. Maybe it’ll be the Braves vs. the Rockies in the NLCS…

By Jared

October 29, 2007 1:42 AM | Link to this

Andrew (Winnipeg): Keith, Where will Tom Glavine pitch next year?

Keith Law: (9:04 PM ET ) Atlanta, but I hope he retires. I scouted him in August and my take was that he was finished.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=17786

First Jordan Schafer and now Glavine. I’m starting to feel that Keith Law just hates everyone involved or linked with the Braves.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this

Dunwoody, you live two blocks from Coors? Those are some pretty sweet lofts in every direction from the stadium. You’re doing alright.

How’d the real-estate bubble bursting out here affect you, if at all?…

MikeS, Brad, others: You’re welcome.

And we’ll be back on it real soon this week.

By dunwoody in denver

October 29, 2007 2:01 AM | Link to this

Yeah, I live right behind the center-field scoreboard, about 2 blocks away, right off 20th St and below where the two viaducts (Park Ave. & Wewatta) intersect. I could say I’m doing alright.

CO is 2nd in the nation in foreclosures after CA, but the vast majority of them are in the suburbs (people who can’t handle their ARM’s).

Downtown is pretty immune from the housing bubble; in fact the new Four Seasons they’re building downtown just sold one of their penthouses for $10 million, and it won’t even be finished for another year.

By the time you’re here next year, downtown will look completely different; along with the Four Seasons, they’re building a Ritz-Carlton and a W hotel, as well as about 15,000 additional lofts/condos/apartments. They say by 2010 there will be 30,000 people living downtown. Union Station (right down the street from Coors) is being turned into the central transit hub for the 112 miles of light/commuter rail that will be built over the next 10 years. If only Atlanta could be so enlightened…

By CC Rider

October 29, 2007 2:34 AM | Link to this

OK FELLOW BLOGGERS, DOB is indicating a short break to recharge the ole batteries. We are left to amuse and confuse ourselves. What about a friendly contest! No tangible prizes will be awarded, but the winner will have the honor to be named the title of SWAMI SCHUERHOLZ. The contest is as follows. Name the opening day roster. The rules are the swami with the fewest mistakes. The budget is no more than $100 million. Since I am the knucklehead who thought this up, I will be the first to look foolish, be second guessed and be made sport of. Starting Lineup-2b Johnson/Escobar, SS Renteria, 3b Chipper, 1b Texieria, RF Franceour, C McCann, LF Diaz/B.Jones, CF Lillibridge. Rotation- Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Reyes, Hampton. Bench-Escobar, B. Jones, Sammons, B. Pena, Aybar. Bullpen-Soriano, Moylan, Mahay, Acosta, Devine, James, Schreiber(with Gonzalez added when healthy). My payroll will be $90 Million. This is counting DOB’s actual figure of prorated salary for Mike Hampton at $8 Million instead of the $16 million Major League Baseball puts it at. This Proration is allowed for all contestants. I further predict that a $10 million bonus will be paid to Mark Teriera as part of his new contract that will average $20 million over 6 years. Well there you have it! WHAT IS YOUR GUESS?

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 2:44 AM | Link to this

Well, if we get the Beltline project going that’s planned in Atlanta, it’s gonna be pretty cool, Dunwoody.

You wouldn’t believe how impressive a project it is, and if they can just get past a lawsuit filed by a Buckhead attorney, they can move forward.

It would use 20-some miles of existing rails and some they’ll refurbish around the city, most of them abandoned old tracks, connecting a string of parks in a loop around the city inside the perimeter, with another 30 miles of trails running mostly alongside the tracks.

I took a three-hour tour of it last week, pretty impressive project. Woul be a light-rail system, like you have in Denver or in Portland….

Good to know about the W going up in Denver — I’ll try to stay there next year. Love those hotels.

By dunwoody in denver

October 29, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this

Now if we could only get IKEA and Trader Joe’s here; I went to my 10-year H.S. reunion (North Springs ‘97) in May and made sure I made a trip to both. Right now the nearest IKEA is in Salt Lake (500 miles away) and the nearest TJ’s is in Santa Fe (400 miles away).

We just opened up our 3rd Nordstrom last week; I’d sure rather have those instead!

By Coach ( lets Go Braves In 2008

October 29, 2007 3:47 AM | Link to this

Congratulations to the Red Sox , they destroyed the Rockies. Speaking of Cinderella (the Rockies) , she ain’t gonna get that glass slipper back anytime soon. Lets look at the bright side , at least we don’t have to wait another three games for the end of the season. Now the clock starts and the ball is rolling , let the hotstove league begin.

By The Grinch

October 29, 2007 4:44 AM | Link to this

Is it too late to change my prediction of Rockies in 5?

HK and DOB, anyone who thinks the Big-12 is a better conference than the SEC has been up smoking crack for a solid week, at least. That’s like saying the NL Central top to bottom is better than the Al East.

If we spend 18 mil a year on Torii Hunter at the expense of fielding a competitive team for the the next few years just to make Terrence Moore happy we deserve to never win another game.

By j-School Dropout

October 29, 2007 5:15 AM | Link to this

Maybe Braves hitters will take note of how patience at the plate can result in championships. Of course, with Andruw gone (Praise the Lord!), we may actually see a more patient team this year. No more first pitch swings, people. Make the opposing pitcher work. We gave some of them multiple 7-pitch innings this year. You can’t win a ballgame like that. Put the ball in play and you have a chance to win. Walk, and you have a chance to win. Swing at bad pitches and you’re going to lose.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

It’s a lot easier to practice patience at the plate when you’re facing the likes of Francis and Fogg instead of oh, say, Hudson and Smoltz. I don’t disagree that some of the Braves could be impatient last year, but a blanket statement of “hope they watched the Red Sox”…sorry.

Some pitchers you can wait out. With others, you have to be aggressive in the zone, or get carved up. Hitters have to be situationally aware (and I do believe Braves can do a better job of that than last year), but the mantra of “patience” in all situations ain’t all that. You base the AB on the pitcher you’re facing.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this

Congrats Boston…..

You’re now the Yankees.

Especially if you sign AROD.

For us Braves fans, I can only dream of the Braves being in the situation Boston was in last night. But they have something we do not, Young dominant pitching on the sunny side of 30. Dice-K, Beckett, Lester, Bucholz and Papelbon. All of which have great stuff. The Braves will just have to try to get by with Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Glavine and James/Reyes.

The Glavine watch is officially on for Atlanta fans. In two weeks from now I expect him to sign with us for around 7-8 million. Hopefully after that, we can move forward and try to clean up some of the other holes that we have on this team.

By ssiscribe

October 29, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens, on this, the morning the Red Sox moved one step closer to snuggling up with their football compatriots in the neighborhood of Dynasty-land.

(And no, for those of you out there in your 40s, I’m not talking about the ‘80s soap opera.)

The Red Sawx, 86 years the beacon of cursedness, now have won the World Series twice in 48 months. The lovable, angst-stricken Red Sox Nation danced into the wee hours in the thin air of Denver and all over New England last night/this morning after their beloved BoSox capped a four-game steamroll job over the Colorado Rockies.

Can’t fault the Rockies one bit. Here’s a team that vaulted from also-ran to pennant winner in 22 dizzying games, winning 21 of those contests to construct perhaps the greatest (or at least, the most stunning) run in baseball history. But in the end, with eight days to rest between dissing the Diamondbacks and running into the Red Sox, the Rockies lost their punch.

Even had Colorado opened this Fall Classic at full speed, it’s likely the final outcome would not have changed. In crushing the curse and the Cardinals in 2004, the Red Sox looked like a team of destiny, kissed by the baseball gods at long last following nearly a century of coming close.

This team looked vastly different.

The 2007 Red Sox were a machine, pure and simple, constructed to roll over, through and beyond the competition. Didn’t seem that way when they dropped three of the first four in the ALCS to Cleveland, but Boston didn’t panic and kick-started a nifty seven-game streak to blast its way to the title.

It all starts with pitching – doesn’t it always? In Josh Beckett and Curt Schilling, Boston features two aces that raise their game when the mercury drops and the pressure grows. Two hosses at the top of the rotation; it’s likely the Rockies, no matter the length of layoff, would’ve left Fenway in a 2-0 hole.

Of course, you gotta have more than two studs at the top. Just ask the Braves, who feature aces at No. 1 and No. 2, yet could only muster a No. 3 finish in a winnable division.

No, it takes much more than two arms to win a World Series. It takes a lineup constructed to get guys on base, to move them over, to work counts and deliver in the clutch, with pop in the middle and no weak links throughout. Some would say the Braves have that, too.

But what the Braves don’t have, and what the Red Sox do, is consistency throughout the rotation, a lock-down bullpen and a solid bench. Boston featured Dice-K, for whom they paid a hefty sum, and Jon Lester, who battled back from cancer, in this World Series. Boston featured a stud closer and great set-up men (although Okijima looked human in the games in Denver). Boston featured clutch hitting from its bench.

The Red Sox now stand in a spot that just doesn’t seem to fit them, and that’s the billing of becoming the next sports dynasty. Some players will leave via free agency, perhaps Schilling and Series MVP Mike Lowell among them. But Boston has the capacity to reload financially, and has a farm system that produces good young players who just step in and perform.

Was it just 12 short weeks ago the Braves were mouthing “World Series” after the Mark Teixeira trade? But the lack of depth in the starting rotation, the lack of consistency in the bullpen, and the lack of production off the bench torpedoed those hopes. In the games the Braves had to win, they didn’t get it done.

Perhaps it’s because there were too many cracks in the Braves’ foundation, and those cracks finally caved in as the calendar marched through August and September. Good teams can chase a title only for so long; great teams find their kick down the stretch.

Now the Red Sox stand among the giants in the hall of champs, the latest vintage of a dynasty in this era of win once, than disappear. There will be no disappearing act for these Red Sox; they are built to contend for the foreseeable future.

As for the franchise that once played in the same city, one must wonder what the offseason will bring. It must bring at least two capable starting pitchers (read: Tom Glavine and somebody else). It must bring stability to the bullpen. It must bring capable bench help.

The clock now ticks for the Braves, and for the other 28 teams that did not find themselves bathed in champagne last night. The Red Sox are the champs. For the Braves and the rest of baseball, the chase to get there in 2008 begins now.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Grinch, tell it to the BCS, the Harris Poll and whatever others were listed. I don’t do the rankings, my friend. But it’s kinda nice, ain’t it?

I thought you, in particular, might like those rankings.

By flange1

October 29, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Morning all,

Congratulations to the Sox for the win

and to the Rockies for just getting there!

Now is the time for the Braves Hot Stove to begin! Bobby and JS are giving us lots of clues as to what their thoughts are for this tema next year, we just have to be smart enough to listen!

I agree with DOB that the Reys is a number 2 is Bobby’s way of saying that Reys will be considered strongly for a rotation spot. That should scare Chuck James a bit. I also agree that Chuck might be on the “to trade” list with Edgar and or KJ.

It will be interesting to see if the ARod frenzy does to FA prices. I wonder who will poney up the $$$ to sign the most expensive player in history. Wonder if this will hurt Andruw at all..We will see..

Effrim, your last post on the Sox having dominant pitching under the age of 30 is right on. I would love the see the Braves either make a trade for a young stud or set the table for being able to sign one as a FA after next year.

Should be a fun off season!

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

I know no one on here will agree with me, but with ARod opting out and officially ending his Yankee tenure, the fans in the Bronx are already dreaming of Tex at 1st base in 2009. All of a sudden that team needs offense in the worst way, among other things.

By ssiscribe

October 29, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

The Scribe abides, but sucks at math (as has been proven on the blog repeatedly) …

Sox have won it twice in a 36-month span, not 48.

—30—

By KC

October 29, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Well, now we’re 10 days (in a sense) from the start of next season.

Glavine talk will kick up a week into November. And sometime in December, we’ll likely start hearing additional trade (and free-agent flirtation) rumors.

I’m anxious to see how next year’s team will shape up. Time to get the wheelin’ & dealin’ underway!

By Anders

October 29, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Lew You still think A-Rod is running these negotiations like you told me he would 3 weeks ago? Not a chance. Yesterday’s move by Boras, while offensive to baseball in general, was brilliant for his client. He trumped the WS on championship night! Boras may have no conscience or soul but he has all the best clients and most of the money.He took the Yankees tough stance on A-Rod opting out and absolutely turned it on them. He sent a signal to the rest of baseball that he doesn’t need the Yanks in the bidding to get what he wants. He’s basically creating a non-Yankee market for A-Rod early. Instead of everyone waiting 10 days to see what the Yanks do while listening to all the negative A-Rod stuff from them polluting the A-Rod market he cut them off at the knees - I didn’t hear anyone who saw this coming.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

DOB There was some speculation up here in the NY papers this weekend that Glavine was actually considering the Nationals next year as well. Not too far from home and he had a good relationship with the coaches and mgt. Have you heard any of this or is it just potsuring to get more $’s from the Braves? Which in itself would be an ominous sign.

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Efrim, I know the Yankees said they wouldn’t negotiate if Rodriguez opts out, but I would not be shocked if they change their minds. As Rob Neyer points out, they could just blame it on the ownership changes, although I’m not sure they’ll even bring that up.

I could see the Angels or Dodgers or even a team like the Giants giving Rodriguez a huge deal but I’d still put my money on the Yankees. I just think they are the team most likely to pay him more than his contract he opted out of.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

Shaun

They aren’t going to sign him. AROD is done in NYC. He has slapped that organization in the face. Expect an Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera offer to the Marlins for Miguel Cabrera within the next month.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 29, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

I sure hope nobody took Carroll up on that ridiculous bet that the Rockies would win four in a row against the Sox.

Like it or not the Red Sox were the best team from the beginning of spring training to now. I picked them to win the World Series at the beginning of the year because they were just too complete of a team. Here is the scary thing about this team. They are young and only just beginning. Can you imagine if the Sox got Arod? Can you say dynasty?

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Lew, you said “I didn’t hear anyone who saw this coming.”

Was watching PTI one day last week and the question was what are the chance A-Rod opts out. I think it was Dan LeBatard who said “who’s his agent? 100 percent.”

It would have surprised me if he hadn’t opted out, as well. I mean, what does he have to lose? Some team will offer him at least what he was making.

By The Grinch

October 29, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Anders, I for one don’t give enough of a #%$@ about Glavine to care where he pitches, so it ain’t ominous to me.

The Yankees were likely gonna give A-rod around 30 mil a year in an extension. That bridge is now burned permanently. If any team actually takes Boras up on this bluff and offers that soulless robot (you can apply that to either the player or his agent) anything over about 18-20 (more than ANYONE should be paid to play this game) now that he’s kind of bent himself and his client over a barrel, than this sport deserves to go the way of the Betamax-eating Dodo bird.

This does, unfortunately, mean Tex is likely going to the Yankees and this may be Scott’s way of bending JS over for his truthful comments last week. But hey, I’d be cool with us not ever signing another Boras client no matter how much it hurt the team. Some people, like Rupert Murdoch, Adolf Hitler and Scott Boras must simply be stopped for the survival of the world to be insured.

Now, I got some bidness to attend to. Later.

BTW, DOB, congrats on Kansas this year. Really. I only wish UGA had a b-ball program like y’all do and this would be the equivilent of our b-ball team being in the top 10. I’d still hold off on the champagne ‘till they beat someone besides Baylor, Se Louisiana state and Florida international (though I’ll give you Texas A&M). Holla at me after Nebraska, Iowa State and Missouri. :-) Really, though; congrats so far. No negative aspersions intended; it took us a last second field goal to beat Vandy for god’s sake so I’ve got no room to throw stones. Later.

By Ray

October 29, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Goodmorning. Nice blog DOB. The season is over. As far as Boras, wow, shocking that he would make that announcement during a game. Its rumored that it came out before the Yanks were officially notified. You know Boras has a deal in the works or he would not leave that money on the table. Don’t like him but he is not a stupid man. IF I was Selig I would be furious too and nothing he can do about it. Not going to get into the Anti-Selig stuff, He didn’t cause the tie in the Allstar game. Has he made mistakes, yes, has he been a good Commish, absolutely. Positives—wild card, inter-league (yes I know that one is debatable.) Over all he has done a good job. Let the free-agent Rumors FLY.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Shaun The Yanks negotiating with A-Rod after he opts out would show major weakness. Steinbrenner’s son has repeatedly said they are firm they would not. Yesterday he said goodbye to A-Rod very harshly. I can’t see anyway they could get around these statements unless they throw the little Steinbrenner under the bus. They would need A-Rod (Boras) to approach them with hat in hand - don’t hold your breadth waiting for this. I will say that I don’t know if the opt out has been made official or is just verbal right now. That might leave them some wiggle room for the Yanks to up their extension offer averting an official opt out saving some face for both sides - but it doesn’t make the harsh comments little Steinbrenner made about A-Rod yesterday go away.

I noticed you didnt mention the Mets among A-Rod possibilities - As I said weeks ago, it’s certainly possible. They have the cash and a new park opening in 2009. The Yanks are reeling and there’s a chance to take back the town like in the late 80’s. Not a lock, but they have to be considered.

By Kentavo

October 29, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

I hope the BoSawks do sign A-Rod. It will be the death of them. What has A-Rod won besided individual titles? Nada. He is a great player, but his teams haven’t won the whole enchilada, now have they? Seattle? Texas? Stankees? Go ahead and add Boston to that list if they give him a gargantuan contract.

I’d rather have Lowell and Lugo.

But hey, I don’t care, I’m not a Boston fan.

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

Efrim, now reading the comments from Hank Steinbrenner, certainly doesn’t seem like Rodriguez is going back. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see a flip-flop.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Shaun That was me who said I didn’t hear anyone who saw this coming I meant Boras announcing A-Rod opting out long before the 10 days he had after the WS. Obviously many were talking about him opting out. I was talking about Boras’ aggressive strategy

By Lew

October 29, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Shaun-You have me confused with someone else. I never commented on AROD. What I did say no one saw coming was the Rockies and Indians in the series (when it looked like the Indians would be there).

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Boras’ announcement may indeed have been a smart business move, as some here said.

But as a total and complete classless move, I can imagine no other competing for the world champeenship. I know that Rodriguez is a self-obsessed, narcissistic prima donna, but if there was ever any doubt that he and his agent feel he is above the game, it’s forever removed. What lowlifes. Boras couldn’t wait 12 hours to make the announcement? Please.

And to think I was saddened when the Braves lost out on signing that guy. Color me doofus.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

Anders-You’re confused also. What I did say in regards to Bore-us and negotiations was that in his last restructuring, Andruw called the shots and signed without Scott’s aid-which really happened-it’s on the record. I really don’t care WHAT Arod does. I think he’s already making too much money and anymore will just be all the more obscene. He won’t be playing for the Braves and that would be all I would ever be concerned with. Re: Andruw-Schuerholz forestalled any chance of Andruw taking over negotiations, so I guess we’ll just never know what he might have done.

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Anders, I don’t see a place for Rodriguez to play with the Mets. Guess they could put him at first but that’s kind of a waste. Guess they could do something bold like trade Reyes for Santana but I just don’t see that happening.

I say Angels, Dodgers or Giants and I say the Yankees still have a shot. If they want him, I think they’ll rationalize it something like this: “Rodriguez’s demands were more favorable than we expected. We have met with him and he assures us he wants to retire a Yankee and go into the Hall as a Yankee…blah, blah, BS.” Nothing would surprise me with Boras, Rodriguez and the Yankees.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Efrim Excellent call on the Cabrera to the Yanks deal Not sure of what players Yanks will send the two you suggested seem fair. Plus if they name Girardi Mgr. I’m sure he’d like to have him since he managed him in Fla.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Efrim, if the Yanks make that Cabrera trade, they’d better insert a “bloat” clause in the extension. God knows what will happen to Miguel when he has New York City restaraunts to frequent for half the year. :-)

By Anders

October 29, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Shaun Wright has already said he would move to first for A-Rod. Delgado could be moved to an AL team easily enough. The only problem I see is the Mets would be too righthanded, but that can be addressed in the outfield down the road. A-Rod, Reyes, and Wright versus Howard, Utley and Rollins and Jones, Escobar and Tex( assuming he signs) . The Mets have to look to compete with these guys for 5 years or so.

As for the Yanks getting back in - You have to be in NYC to understand how bad a turn that possibility has taken. Hank’s first shot as the new boss can’t be waffling on this A-Rod deal. The Yanks put a gun to Boras’ head and he took it and stuck in the Yanks mouth. You know what they say ” Most people get shot with their own guns.”

By LT

October 29, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

LOL!,

I’m glad I’m not the only one happy not to have to hear Dane Cook say “There’s only one Octohhhber!” again! The comedic hack that rips off Louis CK and Demitri Martin.

Personally, I don’t think one of the NL teams would’ve fared any better against the Sox. They were just completely solid everywhere. I don’t see that changing next year.

Here’s looking forward to next year. I keep having a vision of John Smoltz finishing his career off pitching in a game 7 much as career kicked off.

DOB- excellent coverage, much appreciated!

Peace

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Just can’t see the Yanks getting back into the A-rod sweepstakes. They no longer get that that 21M subsudy from Texas that that they had before the Boras announcement. That’s a lot of cash, even or the Yankees to burn for no good reason. I can see the Red Sox getting him for his correct position, shortstop, which I’m sure A-rod would prefer after the uglyness in NY. Man, it must have been grinding on him to give up that position for a popular, inferior player.

By Ray

October 29, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Just to throw this out there, What are the thoughts about offering a deal to Kerry Wood. Yes its a gamble, yes he would probably opt for Cincy with Baker there, but it could be one of those deals for 1 year with incentives all over the place that would include another year in there. Gamble oh yeah. Risk, really not that high. Chances I know are slim but might be worth the gamble

By StingerSplash

October 29, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Peter Gammons, who never has a harsh word on anyone, save Jose Canseco, was pretty critical of Boras/A-Rod last night after Game 4. It was stunning to hear that tone from Gammons, given his nature. It was also quite deserved.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Lew You should care what A-Rod does as it most likely will have ramifications on the Braves i.e A-Rod ends up in the NL East, will Tex sign long term or head to NYC a la Glavine etc. nscoots MLB had no problem cancelling a WS over money some years back. At that point they lost any right to be insulted as to what agents or players do for money in my eyes. I can live with the “It’s just business” reasoning, but it can’t be used just when it’s convenient for the other side. Bud “The Nutty Professor” Selig is lost. He’s in the owners pocket - always has been. Everything is for sale including home field for the WS for an exhibition game - Let’s not be naive. They color the game sacred when it meets their needs and then sell it out when there’s money to be made - they’re hypocrites all!

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

I’d like to add my thanks to DOB and all (most all) bloggers here who made the season very interesting. Looking forward to the best hot stove league in several years. With serveral serious needs but plenty of position strength (and apparently even some cash) the ‘08 roster could be a corker.

For those Chop Talk subscribers, how about sharing some of the better stuff with the rest of us?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 29, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I agree with you that the Yankees will still make a play for Arod despite what they say. But, I really believe that Arod opted out because he wants to leave New York. He was never appreicated there and those Yankee fans never accepted him as a true Yankee. His postseason failures are well noted but lets be honest about this. The “golden boy” Derek Jeter hasn’t exactly lit it up lately in the postseason.

I would be shocked if Arod listened to any offers from the Stanks or the Mets. He and Boras knows if he goes to Boston, Chicago, or LA he will be held up as a hero and god.

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Anders — Well said. The integrity of the game has been for sale for decades now. Still, it is such a great game, we hang in there because at the core we love it.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Anders, I could give a flying damn whether Bud Selig or baseball management “lost any right to be insulted”. I’m insulted as a fan. More accurately, I’m insulted as a human with a functional moral compass, a working knowledge of the definition of “integrity”, and a love of the game. Does that make it clear for ya?

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Lew, my bad.

And actually, of course the Rockies were a huge surprise. But there were actually a couple of writers I know of who picked the Indians to win the World Series this season. And probably quite a few more who picked the Indians to go to the playoffs.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Shaun

With other 3rd base options out there, I am not sure why the Yankees would even bother. ARod is a cancer, and the sooner people realize that, the better. Great player, maybe will be the best statistically of all time, but he has issues. He does have to agree to things like this. Boras didn’t just decide to spill the news about ARod opting out by himself. ARod was obviously on the same page with his agent.

In my mind, the Angels would be stupid to go out there and sign ARod for 30 million a year. How do you explain that to Vlad?, who is earning 14 million a year.

The Giants seem like the team to me. I give the White Sox an outside shot as well. I just can’t see the Dodgers spending that much money. The Red Sox could most definetly afford ARod, but why should they want such a human being on their team???

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

Robert JIB: Don’t forget the Giants. That team likes vets, and A-Rod is at the prime age for Giants baseball. He’s “young” and talented. But not too young.

I believe A-Rod will entertain any offer made so as to use it as leverage against any other offer and eventually accept only the highest bid. The Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, Tigers, Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, Giants and a couple of dark horse Ranger type teams will be in play.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Stingersplash I like and respect Gammons as a reporter but you have to take anything he says when it relates to the Red Sox and in this case their WS party with a grain of salt. He loves the sox which is cool, but he’s not as objective as he usually can be when covering them. If this was Marlin/ Twins WS he probably would have been more than happy to have the A-Rod deal to talk about. As for Boras deserving Gammons’ rath - they’ll be studying this marketing ploy in Ivy League marketing schools for years to come. Not only did Boras use the same opt out clause to get the right fielder on the WS winning team $70 mil (about $50 mil more than he’s worth) but he stole every sports headline south of Hartford Ct. from the WS for A-Rod. You think the Yanks weren’t ready to crap all over A-Rod this week when the negotiations went bad? He took all that away. He’s back to driving the A-Rod bus which it looked like the Yanks took away from him in the last week or so - at least here in NYC.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Anders

Who is signing ARod in the NL East?

The Phillies can’t afford him, the Nats and Marlins can’t either.

Dude, you need to get off this ARod to the Mets thing. If he is playing in NYC next year, it is as a Yankee. Not a Met.

To be honest, I hope he signs with the Mets. He will ruin your team. He is a cancer. Your team blew it by not signing Vladimir Guerrero years ago. You tried to make up for it by signing Beltran, but he is not on that level.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Anders-If I could affect the outcome of what Arod does, maybe I would care. Sorry, Dude-I’ve got to be like Bobby Cox in this regard-I can’t be concerned with what other teams do, just what the Braves do. The Mets, however, have so many holes in the bullpen and in their defense and y’all have to worry about what you’ll do to address team age, your corner outfield spots as well as your rotation. I sincerely doubt that Arod vaguely answers the Mets deficiencies. You’ve basically got to restructure your team. Arod won’t do that. You have MANY more holes to fill than the Braves do.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

I can see Torre taking over the Dodgers and A-Rod joining him. They both stick it to the Yanks and A-Rod gets to steal Jeter’s second father. A-Rod and La-la land. Perfect fit. The Angels marketing themselves as an LA based team has made inroads into Dodger blue territory. The Dodgers need to re-establish themselves nationally. When you think good southern Calif. baseball - do you think Angels or Dodgers lately? That never happened 10 years ago. The Angels were a complete afterthought. Ncscoots Check your morals etc at the door - this is huge business. If we can sit through Brad Garrett reading the opening lineups -not having a clue who any of these guys are - certainly we can sit through an announcement of A-Rod opting out.

By StingerSplash

October 29, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Anders, I think we all know Gammons is the high priest of Red Sox Nation, but he is also one of the biggest baseball fans around and has espoused the virtues of players, teams and officials from organizations other than the Old Towne Team. But I don’t think it matters who was playing last night to him. There’s a reason MLB has a moratorium on anything else during the Series, be it the Braves, Red Sox, Yankees or Chillicothe Paints in it. The gall to try to upstage the World Series, at any point, smacks of a lack of class and unbridled arrogance. Well, we are talking about Boras, aren’t we? Maybe we should have just figured it.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

Anders, if you can’t see the difference in Brad Garrett reading lineups/stadium naming rights/any of the other I-agree-they’re-ludicrous things that go on in baseball, and Boras’ upstaging the WS, then you have my compassion.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Efrim Short of a miracle A-Rod is not signing with the Yanks. He could possibly sign with the Mets - they have the money etc. I would say that’s about a 20% chance depending on how many players there are in the sweepstakes. As for Guerrero - let’s see how his deal finishes out. Did you see him at the end of last season? He walks like Bobby Cox and doesn’t run much better. He’s a great player but he’s got AL DH written all over him for the balance of his contract.Plus, he wanted no part on NYC. He’s a real quiet guy who lives with his mother. BTW - if the Mets don’t sign A-Rod then the Braves will have both the Mets and Yanks, among others, to contend with for Tex. Do you really think Boras will not take him free agent unless the Braves step up and overpay - which is unlikely with a new GM. Schuerholz would have taken care of that before he moved up if that was the plan.

As for A-Rod being a cancer - that’s a sour grapes argument. People used to say that about Manny Ramirez too. How’d that work out for the Red Sox? If you guys got A-Rod instead of Tex you’d be carving his face into the side of Stone Mountain. The guy has won two MVP’s in four years while his own fans could hardly stand him and the captain of his team hung him out to dry repeatedly. Personally I think he’s showed amazing strength and perseverance under really tough circumstances.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Anders

Sour grapes my a* bro.

You are trying to build a case for the guy just so you can declare the Mets champions if he were to sign with your team. Do not compare Manny Ramirez with Alex Rodriguez. Ramirez is not a cancer. ARod is the epitome of cancer.

Stick to talking about the Mets, who have more holes to fill than any other team in baseball.

By flange1

October 29, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

I think the ARod announcement timing was typical Boras and ARod, gotta put ME in front of everyone else.

Money is one thing, but the timing of the announcement showed no class at all.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Anders

Personally I think he’s showed amazing strength and perseverance under really tough circumstances.

Circumstances that he has created himself. He should shut that hell up and stop saying stupid things. Guerrero has done nothing in the playoffs since he became an Angel, do fans rake him over the coles in LA? No. Quiet guy, great teammate who people love.

Why are you defending this guy?

By Anders

October 29, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

nscoots What do you think the Yanks have been doing for a week regarding their mgr? They could have easily said they were not going to name a mgr until after the WS and end all questions until then but they didn’t. Everyday it was more announcements about who they were interviewing and that they might possibly announce it during an off day etc.. Even Fox has been asking Girardi before every game for an update. That’s not upstaging the WS?Plus the Yanks kept putting out statements about A-Rod. I did not hear one word from Boras until yesterday.
My point about Garrett is that baseball sells the rights to Fox which they then use as a marketing tool to sell some weak sitcom with etc. That’s not sacred - but Boras announcing that the best player in the game is opting out is sacrilege? Listen, I understand he used their stage for his own purposes but what I’m saying is baseball is not innocent here either and if as a fan you were offended by Boras you have plenty to hold against MLB as well. From WS home field, to DH’s to unbalanced schedules to interleague play they choose money all the time. Put your energy into fighting that not some agent who made an announcement in an otherwise futile WS.

By Randy

October 29, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

DOB - great to hear you are excited about the Beltline as well. I went on the tour a few weeks ago, gives you a lot of hope for this fair city. How do you feel about the Peachtree Road streetcar?

By KC

October 29, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

I’m going to make a bold prediction here…

I don’t think Boras is going to get his price this time with A-Rod. He wants more than 25 mill per, and I don’t think he’ll get it. I really don’t.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Anders-You know that whether or not ARod is a clubhouse cancer, a jerk or whatever makes little difference in the Mets case. Just like Texas found out to their detriment and financial embarrassment, ARod can’t fill all of a team’s problems. Just like the Yankees found out, he doesn’t guarantee post season success, either.

The Mets need pitching, just like I said all last year (starting in the offseason-and I was proved right, despite all the crap I took from you and NoBrainZone). ARod can’t join the starting rotation. The Mets need major bullpen help. ARod can’t relieve the starters. The Mets need to figure out what to do with the corner outfield spots. ARod can’t help in the outfield. The Mets will need a catcher. ARod doesn’t catch. The Mets defense killed them last year-especially at the end. Moving Wright, a mediocre fielding third baseman to first, a totally unfamiliar position (IF he’s ever played there it hasn’t been for years) and using him to replace a good fielding 1B like DelGado won’t help your defensive woes one little bit. Actually, I don’t see how Arod addresses any of the Mets needs and may actually contribute to a defensive downturn-not an easy thing to accomplish, as bad as the Mets were last year (they seemingly made more errors the last two weeks than the Rockies made all year). Their defense was not good to begin with.

Come to think of it, I don’t see any reason whatsoever for the Mets to even want to consider ARod’s acquisition. It would be analogous to the Braves going out and trading for middle infielders. It makes absolutely no sense in the scheme of things.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Efrim Do you remember when Ramirez played for the Indians? He had the absolute worst rep in baseball. Go do some research on his first 5 years in the MLB and see if you even recognize the guy.

Why am I defending A-Rod? Because he’s probably the best all around player we’ve seen in 30-40 years. If you don’t think so -fine. You guys love to point to numbers all the time - just look at his. They’re monstrous! Career Averages per 162 games. HR’s -44, RBI - 128, Runs - 128 , BA - .306, OBP- .389, Slg -.578, OPS - .967

Yeah - what a cancer.

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Rodriguez is a cancer, or if he is I don’t think that’s the reason he’s never played in a World Series. Was he the sole or even the main reason the Yankees blew the 3-0 lead in 2004? He actually hit pretty well in that series. Is he the reason the Yankees signed a bunch of mediocre, has-been pitchers the last four or five years? Is he the reason the Rangers ace was Chan Ho Park? Is he the reason M’s management surrounded he, Griffey, Buhner , Edgar Martinez and Randy Johnson with absolutely nothing else particularly in the pitching department?

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Anders

World Series Rings?

Postseason Numbers?

He is not worth 30 million dollars a year, but someone is going to pay him that money and it won’t deliver them a World Series.

I know how people perceived Ramirez when he was an Indian, but it was not close to the way people feel about ARod. ARod has been in the league how long????

Ramirez was a 25 year old punk with the Indians.

ARod still hasn’t grown up and he is 32.

By TNRON

October 29, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

I’m not suggesting colussion(probably not spelled right but you get the drift) but don’t the GM’s have a chance to stick ikt to Boras now? What if he cant get ARod the money he thinks he can.Think of the domino effect on other Boras clients.Maybe Tex would opt to cut a great deal now with Atlanta than chance the market changing next year.Probably not but you dont know.

By Carroll

October 29, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Ok Ok so I was way off base with my prediction and my 1996 comparison. I guess I didn’t factor in the other-worldly influences that helped the Yankees pull that one out in 1996. I’m not sure that any other team could pull off such a feat, least of all these seemingly helpless Colorado Rockies. Damnable Jeffrey Mayer!

By Anders

October 29, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Lew Read A-Rods stats in my 12:34 post and see why the Mets, or any team, would want to have him. You guys are painting him like some type of overhyped loser which just sounds ridiculous. As for the mets starting pitching. I agree, they need to add to it, but what does that have to do with A-Rod? The Braves needed starting pitching and bullpen but they went and got Tex - how exactly did that help your pitching? If you’re referring to budget limitations the Mets have money available. There’s not much pitching available so you get what you can. Maybe their plan is to win 7-5 rather than 4-2, who knows? Doesn’t translate well in the post season but according to your description of the mets just getting there would be a miracle and a worthwhile goal.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Anders, what the hell are you talking about? Manny Ramirez was known as a bad fielder. Dopey guy. But absolute worst rep in the MLB? Get a friggin’ clue. He did not even have the worst rep on his own team. He had Kenny Lofton and Albert Belle on his team. Spit in umps face Roberto Alomar was also on that team. Try again.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

The classic quote from House: “There’s no ‘I’ in ‘team’, but there is a ‘me’, if you rearrange the letters a little.”

One guess on Rodriguez’s favorite TV show.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Being a cancer has nothing to do with offensive production. It can affect the offensive production of other players. Imagine any workplace or any blog for that matter where the Arod type shows up. Notice how the mood of the workplace or blog changes almost instantly. Look at what his cancerous ways did to himself last season. It’s not fun working or blogging with someone you don’t like. It can ruin production from those around you if people don’t like coming to work or blogging because they are subjected to being around the dopey arrogant ahole they can’t stand.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I believe ARod is a bad person. Losing in the playoffs is never one players fault. It is never one person’s fault in any sport. Your teammates can always pick you up. His postseason statistics since Game 4 of the ALCS in 2004 are terrible. When you bat in the middle of the order, you are expected to produce. He hasn’t, and it hasn’t helped the Yankees the last four years.

Anders

As far as Teixiera goes, I don’t think he will resign with the Braves anyways. We’ll take the draft picks and use the 20-25 million we would of signed him with to fill other needs.

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Efrim, what does him not producing have to do with whether or not he’s a cancer?

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I think Arod is cancerous to a clubhouse but I don’t think he is a bad person. I think he is probably a very good person. But he has character flaws as we all do that make him annoying to be around. Does not make him a bad person at all though. His character flaws just happen to make him even more annoying to be around than the next guy (who may actually be a very horrible person - much worse than Arod - but still not cancerous to a team).

DeAngelo Hall is a cancer to the Falcons but has not yet done anything to make me believe he is a bad person. Mike Vick on the other hand was not that much of a cancer that I am aware of while he played for the team but he was a bad person in the things he did with those dogs.

By Jim

October 29, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

The market for Boras clients like ARod and AJones will be crucial for the Braves this winter even though they are not players. If Boras gets 30+ million/year for ARod and 20 million for Andruw, then the Brves will have little or no chance of retaining Texeira after this year and trading half the prospects in the farm system to get him will have been a disaster (unless we win it all next year), but if ARod and Andruw have to “settle” for about what they are making now, then Tex and Boras might be more willing to accept a contract that the Braves can afford to offer.

Dotel looked filthy when we finally got to see him at the end of the season. Paying 5 million for someone who can be lights out maight be better than paying 2.5 million for 2 guys that give us heartburn every time they come into a game. Keep Dotel, surround him with guys like Acosta, Moylan, and Devine who will be cheap and have promise — get rid of Villareal and possibly Yates (and keep Dotel over Mahay if we can’t keep both). 3 min salary pitchers + Dotel is better than 2 guys making 2.5 million + 2 min wage guys.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 29, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Cancer or not, the Dodgers would have to remake their entire roster if they signed Arod.

They have Nomar and Furcal and Jeff Kent under contract for next season, along with James Loney who has proved he’s a stud at 1B and Andy LaRoche who’s a perennial prospect (better regarded than his older bro).

If Coletti wants to blow up the ballclub, then Arod may be the guy to justify doing it. But I don’t see it happening unless Coletti is ready to rip the place apart.

A more logical destination might be SF, since the Gints are losing Barry and they need somebody to put fans in the seats.

By Jeffrey

October 29, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

In lite of the Highwayman:

I was a Braves fan. With my team I did abide.

Though its stubborn manager I did often chide.

In many pennants did I take my Atlanta pride.

Only to watch the Braves go through another postseason slide.

We won it all one time in the fall of 95.

But our title hopes are still alive.

We’ll always be around…and around and around and around and around.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

Anders-Come on Dude. I have never said anything negative about ARod-as a player or a person. Never. I really just don’t care. But I do know what steps to take to build a Championship team and that is to address the needs that kept you from achieving that status last year. You do remember that the Mets tanked at the end of the season and played very sub-par ball from the end of June til the end of the season? You do remeber that they did not even win the wild card, much less the division. For the reasons I posted earlier, the Mets have way too many holes to fill and ARod fills none of them. I really fail to understand why you can’t see this. It’s very much the equivalent of the Braves trading for Hanley Ramirez, Jimmy Rollins or Jose Reyes. They are all excellent players-maybe better than who we already have-, but we already have two shortstops and more almost ready in the minors. It would be a useless move to acquire any of them.

Dude-Not talking smack or being contentious in any way, shape, or form here-The Mets have huge, gaping holes to fill. They needed pitching to begin with and now they’ve lost Glavine, who won 13 games for them. You will need, at the very least, to pick up those 13 wins somewhere. The Mets need even more help in the bullpen.

They have corner outfield needs. Moises should have been the Mets’ MVP the way he played down the stretch, but he’s now even a year older and he spent considerable time on the DL. What about Shaun Greene? I keep hearing Lastings Milledge thrown out there as trade bait for filling some of the holes. If you trade him then you DEFINITELY need a right fielder. I keep hearing Phillip Humber proposed for trade. Where will you get another couple starters? As it stands right now, you have Maine and Pelfrey (who was pretty terrible last year as a rookie).

Isn’t LoDuca gone? If not, he also has injury problems. You’ll need another catcher. Do you have Castilla locked up for another year at 2B? If not, then who plays there?

ARod is a great player, but like I said, Texas found out they needed much more-he can’t win games all on his own-it IS a team sport. The Yankees, with all the $$ in the world found out he isn’t the post season answer, either. Based on his Post season track record, why do you think he’s the missing link for the Mets?

Now you keep talking about all the $$$$$ That the Mets have to spend, yet when confronted with the need for major pieces in what could have been a championship season, they didn’t spend any of that money to help out their rotation or bullpen. Why exactly was this-not prior to the season or before the deadline, or off of the waiver wire? Was it because they didn’t want to win? Doubtful-even I as a Mets hater, would never claim that. I think it’s because they don’t have as much cash as the fans think they do. They have continually overspent on trash in pursuit of the Braves and the Division. It hasn’t worked. Time after time it hasn’t worked. All that money spent and one division title to show for it. If I were the ownership, I’d be upset, to say the least and probably come to the conclusion that throwing Wells Fargo trucks full of cash at the problem hasn’t been the answer.

ARod would be another in the continuing series of bad Financial moves for the Mets-not because he would be a bad influence and certainly not because he is not an excellent ballplayer, but because he is not what the Mets need. There is just no way that his extra 20-25 HR (over what DelGado, who in essence, you want to swap him for in the order hits) makes the difference in the Mets’ finish. It’s pitching and defense-just like we’ve been telling you all along. The Mets have neither and ARod provides neither. He just isn’t the answer for the Mets’ deficiencies. That’s it-pure and simple.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Efrim, what does him not producing have to do with whether or not he’s a cancer?

It doesn’t.

By Jim

October 29, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

We gave up top prospects Salty, Harrison, Elvis, N. Perez, and B. Jones to GET Tex. We will only get draft picks if we offer arbitration (no picks for A. Jones), and will those picks be better than the prospects we traded? In any case we would have to wait 3-4 more years to find out. If we can’t sign Tex, the franchise will take a big hit with Chipper, Smoltz, Glavine? reaching the end of their careers and no middle of the lineup player emerging to replace Tex yet. Spreading the 20-25 million around (to 2 established players?) is not likely to make up for the loss of Tex + the older players.

By Random

October 29, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

eric the elder, Braveheart, chrisklob, Greg in TN, et al—

Is anyone else offended when the PA announcer tells the fans to stand and remove their caps for the playing of the National Anthem? I find that truly condescending, and any foreigner hearing that would put another tally in the laughing stock column for America.

You might be shocked, dismayed and I suspect a little PO’d when you saw how many males do not remove their caps. Pretty pathetic.

It’s sad that there are those that just flat out don’t care or know any better.

Myself, I’m offended and dismayed and saddened by the needless militarization of the grand old game (as well as the NFL, NBA, NHL, NASCAR, etc), which I consider an extension of the corrupting and pernicious militarization of the American society in general.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Jim

Yes, you are correct. Not signing Tex would be a big hit. Especially since we gave up so much to acquire him. But understand that our farm system replenishes itself better than any other team in major league baseball. For a team with an 80-90 million dollar payroll, it might not be wise to invest 1/4 of it to 1 player on a 25 man roster. It will be a big loss, but maybe the Braves can put a stopgap at 1st until after 2009 when Justin Morneau is a free agent. As well as an abundance of pitching talent that will be available after the 2009 season(Bedard, Peavy, Penny, Lowe, etc.). The Braves will be fine. Their main goal this offseason and next should be to stregthen the pitching staff. You can always find position players. It is very difficult to find pitching.

By doc

October 29, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

with all the discussion of how classless it was for boras to steal a bit of the limelight for his player seems like the yankees couldnt wait either to get the headlines back since they too began the wheels in motion to raise up a new manager before the series was over and are at it before the sox do the parade. boras and the yankees deserved each other. seems like if the red sox hadnt won last night after they went to mattingly and garardi then they would have been in the same boat as boras with news “leaking” from the different camps for manager. funny the venom goes to boras and not to the yankee clan.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

doc(Anders)

Yankees didn’t announce their managerial decision during Game 4 of the f*** World Series. Boras is classless and so is ARod.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Braveheart You are correct about Manny on the Indians. While he was considered somewhat negative I was confusing him with my recollection of Albert Belle. I stand corrected. Efrim My apologies to you . I still think Manny is a good example of how views on players change, but he wasn’t the poster boy for bad behavior I made him out to be.

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I guess my point is Rodriguez very well could lead someone to a World Series title even if he is a cancer or even if he has struggled in the post-season in the past.

I look at it this way: if you had unlimited resourced and had a choice between Rodriguez and a player about the same age that is clearly an inferior player except he has better post-season numbers, would you take the chance that the other guy has that “something special” and sign him?

By Lew

October 29, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

This is for Colorado Braves Fan who asked last night for these pitching stats. These are some of the young stud pitchers in our Farm System. I’ll include (in this order, ERA, IP, K, BB, WHIP.

Cole Rohrbough-1.17, 61, 96, 20, 0.86 Jose Ortegan0-1.48, 61, 55, 11, 0.91 Eric Barrett-1.75, 57, 71, 20, 1.19 Kris Medlen- 1.53, 47, 63, 12, 1.01, 11 Saves Steve Evarts-1.95, 37, 34, 4, 0.89 Edgar Osuna- 2.47, 55, 66, 11, 1.21 Jeff Locke- 2.66, 61, 74, 8, 0.92 Jamie Richmond- 3.05, 139, 98, 25, 1.20 Thomas Hanson- 3.32, 133, 154, 58, 1.22 Sung Ki Jung- 1.30, 48, 57, 13, 0.91, 23 Saves

Now this is NOT all the good pitching we have in the minors, but anyone who say the Braves are incapable of developing pitching, may want to pay some closer attention in the next few years. You mayvery well have your minds changed.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Efrim If what Boras was doing was so classless why did FOX announce it during the game? They could have waited. Because they are obligated to their audience and they want the best bang for the buck. No different than Boras. He’s obligated to his client and maximum exposure. Why isn’t baseball mad at FOX? If you can’t control the information control the distribution. Apparently the MLB has control of neither - That’s what really bothers them!

BTW- If the Yanks could announce their MGR. during the game don’t think for a minute they wouldn’t. Boras isn’t bound by their rules.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

I guess my point is Rodriguez very well could lead someone to a World Series title even if he is a cancer

As long as you don’t mind the abuse of defenseless clubhouse boys who have the temerity to bring him the wrong sandwich, and the like.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I agree on ARod, he is a great player. When he is done, he might be the best of all time, but the fact of the matter is that he wants to run the clubhouse that he is in and that usually doesn’t sit well with other players.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Now last night, I also posted some comments by Bobby Cox concerning JoJo Reyes and his Braves’ future. I get the feeling some thought I was making it up, or something-perhaps didn’t understand what was said. Here it is, quoted verbatim from BC’s ChopTalk column.

“The young ‘Kids’-JoJo Reyes and Jeff Bennett-did exceptionally well, and it looks like good things for the 2008 season. We’ve liked Reyes from day 1, but it’s a matter of learning how to pitch in certain situations-bases open and certain counts. He’s very, very capable of being that guy. He’s a true pitcher. He has a good curveball, changeup, sinker and a four-seamer. He reminds me a lot of Tom Glavine when he first came up. We really think Reyes is very impressive. He’s so close to being a number-two starter at the big league level, though he still needs a little bit of work. We can handle that here, though”

There it is denizens-in Bobby’s own words. I didn’t make it up and I didn’t misinterpret what was said. Y’all may not think the Braves have the ability to develop more than a number five starter. It’s obvious that the Braves don’t think that at all. It also lends credence to Coach’s contention that they view Bennett as an option, as well.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Lew

As you know I am on top of that stuff too, and if out of that crop we don’t produce something better than Chuck James, well, then I am going to move closer to the ledge.

With the increase of salaries around MLB, the Braves have no choice but to develop pitching, or they will end up at the basement of the National League.

In my mind, the Braves success, in the future, hinges upon whether or not they will be able to develop pitching in the minors. Not only for their major league team, but for trade acquisitions as well.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Efrim, just give it up, man. Anders thinks the Boras announcement was a brilliant marketing ploy, while you and I see it as only crass arrogance. No common ground there for any type of discussion on the matter.

Besides, the longer we discuss it, the longer it takes for my infuriation to subside :-)

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

still think Manny is a good example of how views on players change

Anders, the maturation of Manny that I am aware of is that he stopped hanging out at Jimmy’s Cafe and in Washington Heights with the large Dominican immigrant contingent in that neighborhood. Many of the Dominicans are angry with him about it and have basically accused Manny of selling out. Manny has basically responded that I ain’t 25 years old and without kids anymore, what do they expect?

this is probably one of the best articles i have ever read about manny in the new yorker

By wjones

October 29, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

I’m thinking that the Cubs will come up with a big-time offer for ARod! Piniella managed him in Seattle for a while, Lou isn’t too big on Aramis, who could bring some decent product in a trade if he is signed, and ARod! would instantly be the centerpiece of that lineup, and with Derek Lee and Alfonzo Soriano joining him would form a pretty good nucleus in that lineup. Wrigley would be a good place for him to play, and if he can hit 50 homers in Yankee stadium, he certainly could in Wrigley, and the fans would fall in love with him if he did. And they are used to not winning, so if they did that would just be icing.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

As long as you don’t mind the abuse of defenseless clubhouse boys who have the temerity to bring him the wrong sandwich, and the like.

Didn’t know Scoots was really Frenchy?

That was the best Gammons story I have ever heard. Little rookie Frenchy telling Arod what a douchebag he is for the way he treated the clubhouse kid. If Frenchy gets that SLG up to .500, he will be a leader.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Dude, I agree wholeheartedly. The thing that bothers me is the prevailing thought that the Braves can’t develop the pitching. I had hoped, with those stats, to show the naysayers that things are in much better shape than they think-that we had pitchers who struck out a good number of hitters and put relatively few on base.

It’s one thing when you have Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz-along with Avery, Millwood, Neagle, et al-even Russ Ortiz winning 20. You don’t need to develop pitching quite so much under those circumstances. Also, finishing in the top 6 teams every year for 14 straight, doesn’t give you much in the way of high draft picks. I think, however, apparently the scouting department has turned that around, quite nicely.

One more thing-I wouldn’t give up on or pigeon hole Chuck James quite yet. He’s nowhere near as bad as most seem to think. He has flaws, but so does damn near anyone else. They are not insurmountable.

Anders-Maybe Fox announced it because they have as little class as Bore-@$$.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

If Frenchy gets that SLG up to .500, he will be a leader.

I am going to sour on my favorite Brave if he doesn’t slug .500 in his third major league season. 24 years old or not, it is time Frenchy jumps to that next level.

I sure hope he does.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

and the fans would fall in love with him if he did.

Arod is simply unlovable. Why? Because he loves himself too much and desperately wants others to love him that much too. Those Red Sox players are loved because they don’t give a flip if anyone loves them or not.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

SCoots-Don’t bust a gut, Dude. It’s just Anders being Anders. He never met a Braves’ fan he couldn’t disagree with.

By KC

October 29, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Lew: Yes, the Braves have good options for the bottom of the rotation after Smoltz, Huddy, Glavine (assuming)…

Between Hampton, James, Reyes, and Bennett… I think we’ll be in good shape assuming Glavine inks.

Don’t get me wrong, I want to see the Braves pursue a top-of-rotation starter. I really do. But if there isn’t one available… I see know reason to go out and get a marginal starter. Not with those 4 possibilities I just mentioned.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Another quote from Bobby Cox’s column-” We’ll have Mark Teixeira next year for the whole season and I think that’s big. We’ll do everything we can do to try to re-sign him.”

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I agree about Frenchy. I liked the progress he made this year with his AVG and OBP. I really want him to get his SLG up to .500 next year. .290, .340, .500 would look real good out of Frenchy in 2008. What more could you ask out of a 24 year old? AVG went up 30 points, OBP 40 points, now it is time for the SLG to go up 50 points. It’s all coming together. He took some giants steps last season.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

nscoots MLB crowned a new champion last night and 95% of this blog (and most others I suspect)has been about A-Rod and Boras. If I’m Boras - mission accomplished. You’re misunderstanding my take - I think it is a crass arrogant brilliant marketing ploy. Do you think for one minute a team will not bid because Boras announced the opt out yesterday? Again, he doesn’t care what people think of him or his tactics as long as he maximizes value - which he almost always does.Believing MLB’s pollyana view of protecting the integrity of the WS is naive in my view as I stated earlier today. If they felt the WS was so sacred they wouldn’t decide home field advantage on a meaningless exhibition game in mid season that no one cares about. That’s crass arrogance by MLB to get us to watch this otherwise worthless game.

BTW- Yanks have offered Girardi the job. Now The Dodgers want Torre. A-Rod will most likely follow Torre to Dodgertown or sign with the cross town Angels. Either way - let the bidding begin.

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Lew: Here are your pitchers. I just looked them up on the cube because I was interested in starters vs relievers, age, number of games and level of play. Below are the career numbers for each pitcher…

Player         Age Ll Src G  GS ERA  IP    K   BB WHIP Sv
Cole Rohrbough     A    1 14 13 1.17 61    96  20 0.86 -
Jose Ortegano      Rk   2 25 14 2.27 107   86  21 1.01 -
Eric Barrett   21  Rk   1 13 8  1.76 56.2  71  20 1.19 -
Kris Medlen    22  AA   2 58 0  1.30 69    99  14 1.30 21
Steve Evarts   20  Rk   2 19 16 2.48 80    67  16 1.09 -
Edgar Osuna    20  Rk   2 19 8  2.06 74.1  84  12 1.11 4
Jeff Locke     20  Rk   2 16 0  3.19 93    112 13 1.06 1
Jamie Richmond 21  A    3 47 36 2.49 217.1 162 25 1.06 -
Thomas Hanson  21  A+   1 26 25 3.32 133   154 58 1.22 -
Sung Ki Jung       AA   1 40 0  1.31 48.1  57  13 0.91 23

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Lew

I agree on Chuck. I give him a hard time, I just don’t think he should be confused for a #3 starter. I think if we make him our #5, we will have as solid a rotation as any in the NL.

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Don’t know if that got it all in. So sorry for the double post… But here it is reformatted.

Player         Age Ll Srv G  GS ERA  IP    K   BB WHIP Sv
Cole Rohrbough     A    1 14 13 1.17  61.0  96 20 0.86 -
Jose Ortegano      Rk   2 25 14 2.27 107.0  86 21 1.01 -
Eric Barrett   21  Rk   1 13  8 1.76  56.2  71 20 1.19 -
Kris Medlen    22  AA   2 58  0 1.30  69.0  99 14 1.30 21
Steve Evarts   20  Rk   2 19 16 2.48  80.0  67 16 1.09 -
Edgar Osuna    20  Rk   2 19  8 2.06  74.1  84 12 1.11 4
Jeff Locke     20  Rk   2 16  0 3.19  93.0 112 13 1.06 1
Jamie Richmond 21  A    3 47 36 2.49 217.1 162 25 1.06 -
Thomas Hanson  21  A+   1 26 25 3.32 133.0 154 58 1.22 -
Sung Ki Jung       AA   1 40  0 1.31  48.1  57 13 0.91 23

By Lew

October 29, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

I’m glad the Yankees gave Girardi the job. Now it’s almost certain he will never have another bunch of young pitchers to ruin, like he did those with the Marlins. The Yankees will likely trade any pitcher young enough for him to overuse.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Lew Did Cox mention anything about having two starters over 40 (assuming Glavine signs) a third baseman who continually gets hurt, no centerfielder, a catcher who may pass Cox in pant waist size this off season and a closer who has 13 career saves? Just wondering if any of this came up during the twinkie munch?

By chipdip

October 29, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

A-ROD IS A F*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Anders: A-Rod will most likely follow Torre to Dodgertown or sign with the cross town Angels

Perhaps. But I’d venture a guess that A-Rod is going where the money is no matter who is on the team or managing the team. It’s about money, that’s why he walked away from what the Yanks put on the table, a total of 5/140 plus the 3/70 he already had coming to him. In effect leaving 210 million on the table for a chance at 300 million.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Anders

You would kill to have McCann as your catcher, so I don’t want to hear that. Do you ever mention your 3rd baseman who can’t throw the baseball on a straight line? How about a starting pitching staff that has NO ONE who can get to 200 innings? And don’t give me Maine and Perez will get there, they walk way too many batters for that to happen.

Anyways, why are you knocking the Braves? Did they ever blow a 7 game lead with 17 games to go????

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, be honest…you just wanted a chance to use your formatting thingy, LOL.

Certainly Rohrbough’s K rate would be eye-popping even if it were Pony League, but I’m guessing there are more than a few organizations with a similar top 10 list in rookie and A ball.

By Thrillhouse44

October 29, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

One person I haven’t missed since the Mets’ epic collapse: Anders.

Anders, where in the world have you been, dud? (Yes, I meant “dud”.) I’d say “welcome back”, but I wouldn’t mean it.

By Jim

October 29, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

There are some promissing pitching prospects in the lower minors (the level quoted in the previous post indicates the highest level reached during the season, not how long they pitched at that level and what fraction of their success was at the highest level), but it is premature to get too excited over rookie and low A performance until it is replicated at the higher levels.

Chuck James put up outstanding numbers at each of the levels he pitched at, and it is premature to throw him under the bus based upon his struggles during his second season. His numbers in mid July were not too bad when compared with other 1st and 2nd year pitchers and the bulk of his “struggles” occurred after he developed the tired arm. If your 5th starter gives you 10+ wins a year that is pretty good.

I was surprised last year, given that the numbers that Medlen put up, that he was not rated as one of the top 10 prospects in his league by Baseball America (I don’t think they even had him in their top 20, and I don’t remember him being rated in the top 10-20 again this year). Why is he not considered a big prospect? What is the arguement against him?

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

The Yankees will likely trade any pitcher young enough for [Girardi] to overuse.

Otherwise, kiss the careers of Chamberlain, Hughes, and Kennedy adios. Girardi gets commission from Dr. Jobe, I think. It’s the only explanation that makes sense.

By Salty

October 29, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Can anyone confirm the A-Rod sightings at Hartsfield???

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Why is [Medlen] not considered a big prospect? What is the arguement against him?

Probably because he ISN’T “big”, LOL. Doesn’t have the physical profile most scouts like in a pitcher. I think he’s only about 5’10”.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Jim

Medlen’s fastball sits around 91-92 mph. He has a very good breaking ball, which is his out pitch. He is around the plate a lot and doesn’t walk many.

The knock on him would be that he isn’t very projectable. He is 5’9”. They list him taller, but he isn’t. 5’10” at best. Medlen’s delivery is very deceptive as well. I think a lot of people see him as the next Chad Cordero, but who knows. Medlen probably has more upside than Joey Devine. Actually, he definetly has more upside than Joey Devine.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Anders-You’re just being a disingenuous Mutt again. I really don’t know why I should be surpirsed about this-it’s quite typical of you.

Don’t you wish you had someone who could miss 25 games and still come in second in the NL batting race, while posting 29 HR and over 100 RBI?

Don’t you wish you had a catcher with a waistline that size who was an All Star his first two full years in the bigs, while compiling almost 200 RBI in those two seasons.

Don’t you just wish you had a 40+ year old pitcher who consistently wins 13-16 games a year at his age, while posting in the top 5 in ERA and strikeouts-who every gme he pitches sets even more strikeout records while cementing his claim on Cooperstown (and oh yeah, who is in the HOF from the Mets other than one pitcher from 25 years ago, who didn’t even finish his career or throw his no hitter with the Mets)?

Don’t you wish you had that other 40 year old pitcher back? You never have told us how you will replace his 13 wins. Weren’t those 13 wins the most on your starting staff?

Don’t you wish you had a closer, who at the end of the season wouldn’t fold like a cheap banquet table and get through the stretch run without screaming “No Mas-my arm hurts-I have to sit out the stretch drive”? Must be nice he has a past to fall back on. His present and future don’t look so good anymore, now, do they?

Dude, Rather than sit here telling us what terrible handicaps we face, wouldn’t you do better trying to figure how the Mets are going to revamp almost their entire team-pitching staff, outfield and catcher and clean up that totally dysfunctional clubhouse?

Calling you disingenuous merely scratches the surface. It helps if you have some real basis for talking smack. Tanking in the worst fashion in all of major league history is hardly a recommendation. Of course, maybe you could trade Milledge straight up for Johann Santana and Francisco Liriano. Yeah-sure you can-or if the Twins don’t go for that, maybe you could include Jorge Sosa. Are you and your Mets’ cohorts prepared for your fall into NL East obscurity, yet again? I guess you’re used to it by now. If not, maybe you could talk to some Cubs fans.

Oh, how I love the smell of burning Trolls in the Hot Stove League. Nothing quite like the essence of burned dead wood on a crisp Autumn Day.

By Jim

October 29, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Locke’s numbers of 112 Ks to 13 BB in 93 IP stand out.

Most of that talent was acquired either in the 2006 draft either directly or as draft and follows from the previous year or from 2006 (Rohrbaugh). And most of those people (along with Cory Rasmus who was hurt) came between the sandwich picks after the first round and the 4th or 5th round. In the recent drafts where the first player taken was a pitcher we drafted McBride, Devine & Beau Jones, Wainwright (not a bad pick) — who have either not panned out or are no longer with the organization or both. Lester, Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Hughes? were some of the names still available when we made our first selection. This year we drafted an outfielder that all of the talking heads like, but did not draft a pitcher until the 2nd round, and did not sign him. The 5th round pick looks like he has a promising future — in the NFL.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Just got home and caught tail end of something on ESPN about the Yankees. Something musta happened with the Yankees today….

Grinch, the Jayhawkers already beat a then-ranked K-State team on the road in Manhattan. Yes, the same K-State team that had Auburn beat at Auburn, but committed about 13 penalties and blew the game at the end.

And really, the BCS and other polls is all the satisfaction we need, my friend. But thanks anyway for gracious comment you made about our little engine that could.

Guess you’d better call around to pollsters, convince them your team and your conference are better, bro. I don’t have a vote, and neither does HK….

By the way, you been keeping up with college football outside the SEC this year? If so, you’d know beating Nebraska this year would hardly be a major accomplishment, compared to winning at K-State or at Texas A&M. The ol’ Black Shirts at Nebraska are waaaay down.

That said, they played Texas tough last weekend, and I’m expecting them to do same against KU.

The real tests are at O-State and neutral-field game vs. Mizzou at Arrowhead.

Oh, and I heard some college analyst talking on ESPN News about conference rankings, and he said he couldn’t put SEC first this year simply because they haven’t had enough wins outside their conference, and he questioned whether the parity in the conference was necessarily an impressive thing.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

SCoots-Don’t be so sure of that. The Danville Braves led the rookie leagues in ERA-by a WIDE margin. Besides, all you need are one or two home grown studs for success. We have that in Rohrbough and Hanson. Add Medlen and Sung in the pen (not to mention Devine) and I doubt there is another team that deep. Also, you need to keep in mind that we traded at least three top pitching prospects at the trade deadline. Didn’t even make a dent in the talent dept..

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Anders, how is Glavine “posturing.” Are you actually quoting anything you saw from hims or his agent or anyone even close t him, or just a writer in the paper up there speculating that Glavine is interested in the Nationals?

Let’s put it this way: If Braves make a decent offer, he’s pitching for Atlanta. Washington isn’t exactly a short commute from his home in Alpharetta. I mean, how much easier is it to get back and forth between Washington and Atlanta than back and forth between New York and Atlanta? Negligible difference.

I can’t even imagine him leaving behind that lucractive option with New York to pitch for the Nationals. No way. Can’t see it.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Lew Keep the love coming. You have everything the Mets need yet we finished ahead of the Braves for the second year in a row - How exactly does that work?

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN: EDGAR TRADED TO DETROIT.

For outfielder Gorkys Hernandez and right-handed pitcher Jair Jurrjens. Braves also paying some cash.

More to come. Gotta make calls.

By DAP

October 29, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

random i could say alot of things about your comment on singing the national anthem at baseball games.

you disrespecting our country and the national anthem by saying all it does is “militarize the game” is retarded. it angers me. the national anthem is not about the military, it is about our great country and the freedom we enjoy. the game of baseball is a perfect place for our freedom and liberty as Americans to be celebrated.

America is being wussified, because of idiots like you.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Here’s some stuff on the two Tigers:

A Midwest League All-Star, Hernandez was voted by the MWL’s managers as being the Most Exciting Player and the Fastest Baserunner in 2007. The strong-armed center fielder walked and scored a run in the World Team’s 7-2 win in the 2007 MLB Futures Game.

Jurrjens, 21, was rated by Baseball America to be the Eastern League’s sixth-best Major League prospect (third-best pitcher) this past season. In 2006, Baseball America rated him as the best control pitcher in the Tigers organization.

Jurrjens (pronounced JEYE-air JER-jens) went 7-5 with a 3.20 ERA in 19 starts at Class-AA Erie in 2007 before making his Major League debut with Detroit in August. He worked in seven games (all starts) for the Tigers, going 3-1 with a 4.70 ERA. In his last three minor league starts, Jurrjens went 3-0 with a 0.78 ERA, with 24 strikeouts and one walk in 23 innings.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Jim-Converting promising draft choices, especially pitchers, into viable ML performers, is a crap shoot at the best of times. That’s indisputable.

However, out of all those young studs (and I love those K to BB ratios and low WHIP’s), if we can come up with just two top of the rotation pitchers and two stud relievers, we will have done what few teams manage to do with their own farm systems. I’m of the opinion that we can easily accomplish that feat with this group. When you add JoJo Reyes and Chuckie to that mix, along with Jeff Bennett and the crop of relievers we already have in Atlanta, I foresee a pretty damn formidable rotation in a couple of years. Smoltz, Glavine and others will get us to the point where they are ready. If we can trade for one other good starter, we’ll win Titles again very soon.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

DOB That’s why I’m asking. Can’t say for sure if the writer had a direct feed or not. I believe it read something like “Reports are…” I know that’s pretty loose - figured you’d have more of a handle on it. I fully expect him to pitch for the Braves , if anyone, but thought he might be playing the money game again.

By KC

October 29, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

For who and who???

By Greg O.

October 29, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

With the acquisition of Jair Jurrjens, the Braves have now fulfilled their quota of at least one Curacao native on the 40-man roster.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Anders-You can keep on hoping that trend continues, if it lets you sleep more soundly at night, but it sure isn’t as likely as you seem to think. All I know is that the Braves played much better the last month of the season, while the Mets tanked in the worst, imaginable manner. That’s a fact you can’t dispute. How many games did the Braves gain on the Mets during the stretch drive?

Another thing I know, which is also indisputable, no matter how much you may wish it weren’t so is that the Braves only need one more starter after we sign Glavine (IF we even need that much) and we need to put someone in center to replace our Esteemed .223 hitter, Mr. A. Jones.

The Mets, on the other hand, need two outfielders, a catcher, two or three starting pitchers and then they need to find an effective bullpen, almost in toto. Good Luck with that.

Misplaced smugness is not likely to help the Mets address these gaping holes in what was once thought to be a formidable lineup (didn’t work out, did it?). I sure wouldn’t feel comfortable talking smack about a team that tanked that badly- that radically underachieved for all but the first two months of the season. A team that for an entire month of the season, right in the middle, lost all but two games where the staff gave up more than two runs.

Oh, One more thing, Oh, Smug One-You aren’t even factoring in the Phillies, who are looking for pitching to add to their potent offense (and they DIDN’T come in behind the Mets), or the Nationals, who shocked everyone with how good they played. They have the makings of a good pitching staff and if they get some more pop in their lineup. with the revenues from their new stadium, may kick Mets’ butt all on their own.

By DAP

October 29, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

i have to admit, at first glace im a little disappointed with the edgar trade. i was hoping to get more for him,

BUT, if this guy is going to be our starting CF and the pitcher we got will be in our rotation THIS year, i think mission was accomplished.

By Thrillhouse44

October 29, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

That’s what we got for Edgar? Do they expect Hernandez to compete for a starting job? (You probably don’t know yet, just asking the obvious…)

By KC

October 29, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Hernandez’s 2007 (minor league) stats:

481 AB’s… .293 avg. / .344 OBP / 54 of 65 in steals

By Lew

October 29, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

I would imagine we now know who will be playing CF for us this year. Is this picher ready to step into the rotation, or is he several months or a year away?

By DAP

October 29, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Jurrjens (the tiger pitcher) is from curacao. just like andruw, neat. his stats arent great, but the 3-1 in 7 starts isnt bad.

guess trading one player we dont really need for two players we do need is pretty good, providing both of the tiger are major-league ready. im still processing what i think about the trade as a whole.

By Randy

October 29, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Wow, trigger pulled.

Greg O - you stole my joke.

This was the deal we were all expecting right? Looks like a couple of pretty darn solid prospects. Yes prospects, but solid nonetheless.

By Shawn B

October 29, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Edgar for two prospects????? I hope these are two studs ready for the majors. I can’t wait for a little more info, right now I’m a bit sick just to see Edgar go.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Don’t know anything about Gorkys (other than he was a top 10 Tigers prospect), but Jurrjens got some good pub for his starts in the bigs. He isn’t the rotation-savior for which many were pining, including me, but he certainly appears to have ceiling.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

That was the big Renteria leverage play? and money??? Wow, this is like being the family friend in the room when the parents find out accidently that their unmarried 16 year old daughter is pregnant. Aaaakwaaaard.

By MEB

October 29, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

WOW!!! The Braves wasted little time in making a block buster deal. I really thought we had some options in our own farm system that would compete in center field and for the bottom of our pitching staff. I certainly like the idea of adding some speed to our lineup but never saw this coming.

GO BRAVES!!!

By flange1

October 29, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Very interesting trade…

Jurrjens I can see, his either ready or just about ready for the ML.

Gorkys Hernandez a CF is in A ball.

We have Schaffer in center in the minors.

I wonder if this is the beginnings of a second trade..Maybe Dan Haren? I know DOB says 3 way deals don’t happen much, but this might be 2 2way trades.

Maybe just stockpiling prospects like we did when the Pirates “threw” in Lillibridge…

By KC

October 29, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Grinch just text messaged me, and suggested this possibility, so I’ll ask…

DOB, any chance in your view that this could be a precursor to another deal (for a starter)?

By Shawn B

October 29, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

If Hernandez takes the label as the centerfielder of the future, where does that leave Shafer and Lillibridge now???

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Lew, Gorkys (and you gotta love that name) just finished A ball. Kinda doubt he’s gonna start in ATL.

By Vonshawn

October 29, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Looks like a good deal for both teams.

By rainman

October 29, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

the pitcher is ready the outfielder is not. To me this tells me a Glavine deal must be done already and we are clearing cash. Ive seen this kid pitch and he is not bad but not much more than a forth or fifth guy right now. Hernandez is bad news but cant believe hell be ready for this year.

By flange1

October 29, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

All,

In looking at Hernandez on line, HE IS NOT READY FOR THE ML YET.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Here’s story I just filed. Getting ready now for conference call with Wren.

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

The Braves made the first big trade of the offseason Tuesday, sending veteran shortstop Edgar Renteria to the Detroit Tigers in exchange for a pair of top prospects including a center fielder and a hard-throwing pitcher who will compete for a rotation spot in 2007.

Rookie right-hander Jair Jurrjens went 3-1 with a 4.70 ERA in seven starts for Detroit after being promoted from Class AA Erie, where he gained notice by going 3-0 with an 0.78 ERA in his final three starts, with 24 strikeouts and only one walk in 23 innings.

Center fielder Gorkys Hernandez just turned 20 in September and was named the MVP of the Class-A Midwest League after batting .293 with 25 doubles, four homers and 54 stolen bases in 124 games. He was voted the league’s most exciting player and fastest baserunner by league managers.

The Braves also agreed to pay an undisclosed amount of cash to Detroit, which was aggressive in its pursuit of Renteria, who has been outstanding in two seasons for the Braves but was expendable because of the emergence of Cuban shortstop Yunel Escobar.

The trade opens a starting job for Escobar, who had an outstanding rookie season for the Braves, batting .326 with 25 doubles, five homers and a .385 on-base percentage in 94 games.

Renteria, 32, hit .332 with 30 doubles, 12 homers and 57 RBIs for the Braves in 124 games this season, and the five-time All-Star will be reunited in Detroit with manager Jim Leyland. Renteria had the game-ending hit for Leyland’s 1997 Marlins in the seventh game of the World Series against Cleveland.

Renteria will make $9 million in 2008 and be eligible for free agency after the season.

By Anders

October 29, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Lew Hernandez is no more than 20. You expect to play him in center this year? What happens with Willie Mays (I forget the guys actual name)who you have down in Richmond that you didn’t want Cameron to get in the way of? Perhaps the Braves didn’t get your scouting reports?

By flange1

October 29, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Info on Hernandez

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070507&contentid=1951465&vkey=newsdet&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

By Steve from OH

October 29, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

Wow, that was quick….

My initial reaction is that this deal is a pretty good one. I like Jurrjens, but I don’t know anything about Hernandez (except that he’s fast, apparently). Waiting for more info from DOB.

By KC

October 29, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren:

“We appreciate the talent and professionalism that Edgar Renteria brought to us the last two years and we wish him the best in his career,” said Wren. “Today we were able to acquire two special players. We are extremely excited to be able to add a starting pitcher who we believe will compete for a spot in our rotation next spring, as well as an exciting and gifted outfielder who possesses tremendous speed for the future.”

By Interested Observer

October 29, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

If I’m not mistaken Hernandez only played in low-A ball last year. I wouldn’t expect him to be the CF starter this year. Shaffer was a level higher than he was.

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Renteria for two outstanding prospects, one is a mlb-ready pitcher… sounds ok to me but I really hate to lose Edgar. Jeez, what a team player he is. Think of it this way, Detroit just strengthened itself significantly for ‘08. Yanks prospects for the post-season just sunk a little further.

More I think about it the more I like it. The kid pitcher will help us immediately, and make one of our lessor young pitchers good trade bait. The young outfielder is an exciting prospect for about ‘09 or ‘10.

And I like this: Starting tonight for the Atlanta Braves, Yunel Escobar…

By Tomahawkin' Since '82

October 29, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Jurrjens is projecting to slide into the rotation, according to MLBTradeRumors.com. Our pitching staff got much younger aulluva sudden, didn’t it?

So we go now with Smoltz, Hudson, then what? CJames, JoJo, Jurrjens, Cormier, Bennett, Buddy, and oh, don’t forget some guy on the payroll named Hampton.

Looks like we have trade chips, to me.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Tigers acquired shortstop Edgar Renteria from the Braves for RHP Jair Jurrjens and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez.

That was remarkably quick. That Renteria is being dealt is no surprise, and it figured that the Tigers would be high on the list of suitors. However, we don’t see wht the Braves felt they had to make the move today when better offers could have come later. This simply isn’t a great return for a player who was one of the best in the NL last season. Renteria hit .332/.390/.470 in 2007, and he’s under control for a very reasonable $20 million over two years (the second year is at Detroit’s option). The Tigers did quite well to get him now. It’ll certainly head off any Alex Rodriguez speculation.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Perhaps Frank Wren reads the blog, and didn’t want to read all the Edgar scenarios that were bound to pop up between now and the winter meetings, LOL.

By dragrace79

October 29, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Geez, I thought the hot stove was still on preheating mode. Guess I was wrong. This one had to be in the works for a while to get announced this quickly after the series I would imagine. Watched a Jurrjens start late this past season on the Extra Innings package. It was his second start vs Cleveland in Auguest. He went 6+, only 1 hit (HR). Kid looked good. He did have 2 outings where he gave up 4 ER, but hopefully he’s as good he looked when I saw him. As for Hernandez, sounds solid, but, if we already have the CF and LF of the future, and Frenchy is entrenched in right, who is the odd man out? Man, I just didn’t see action coming THIS early…

By Anders

October 29, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Vonshawn By both teams I assume you mean the Phillies and the Mets?

By Randy

October 29, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

DAP - I gotta disagree, Jurrjens stats are pretty darn good: In 502.2 career minor league innings pitched (89 games/84 starts), Jurrjens has posted a 3.20 ERA with 404 strikeouts and just 121 walks.

By KC

October 29, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

rainman: I seriously doubt it was necessary to clear cash for Glavine. I think this was a baseball trade, not an economic one.

By rainman

October 29, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Hernandez is ranked behind schaffer as a center fielder but his speed is better.

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

October 29, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Gee, another 90-93 MPH starter…great. Well, he’s a control guy, Bobby hates walks…strike out at sliders 3 feet outside, no biggie…pitch carefully to a dangerous hitter, back to the minors for you, or Detroit for their lame leftie.

Jo-Jo (and Carlyle) can throw 90-93 as well…As we just saw in the WS, who needs a guy with Beckett like stuff??? Can’t you just see Jo-Jo, Chuck James, and Tom Glavine just destroy, just murder the Sox line-up???

By Anders

October 29, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

The Braves must have been busting at the seams not being able to announce this trade before the WS ended. I applaud their discipline.

That’s all I got - peace out all.

By KC

October 29, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Efrim: It sounds like we got 2 studs… so I’m not so sure I can agree with you. Sounds like a good deal for both sides.

By ernesto

October 29, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

WTF?????

We gave up Edgar for prospects????????

I thought I was hearing we were going to get an ESTABLISHED major league pitcher…maybe a little more for Edgar…and we got two prospects??????

Salary dump????

Was this to clear money to offer Glavine? That’s the only way it makes sense to me.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

Scoots-I don’t know. 54-65 in steals? He doesn’t need much more minor league experience speed-wise, anyway. Maybe it is a prelude to another deal. That wouldn’t surprise me, but I wonder if they would dump that kind of lead off potential. Can you imagine someone with that base stealing ability hitting in front of Yunel, Chipper and Tex? May prove interesting. Stranger things have been known to happen. Is it really much more of a stretch than putting Lillibridge in there? Not saying it will happen, but who knows? He must be hell on wheels for them to trade Edgar and cash for him and the unpronounceable pitcher. It is like we’ve been saying, though-Edgar wasn’t going to bring top line pitching in return.

By Jared

October 29, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Baseball Prospectus:

The Tigers didn’t waste any time making the first big Hot Stove deal — assuming you don’t count the Alex Rodriguez opt-out — by trading for Edgar Renteria. The Braves receive Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez in return.

I checked with BP prospect guru Kevin Goldstein who said, “Jurrjens is just 21 years old and has already proven the ability to hold his own in the big leagues. The Curacao native isn’t especially big or projectable, but what he is now is pretty darn good, as he throws a low 90s fastball, decent slider, and deceptive changeup. Scouts do wonder is he has a big league out pitch and see him as more of a No. 4 starter type – a role the Braves could use him in immediately.

“Hernandez hit .293/.344/.391 in the Midwest League this year for his full-season debut while also leading the Midwest League with 54 stolen bases. He’s an absolutely burner on the base paths, and also a spectacular center fielder with a plus arm. Despite the numbers, he’s still more tools than performance. He needs to either hone his approach to develop into a leadoff man, or develop more power (the bat speed is there) to become a dynamic power/speed combo. Very high upside, but obviously some risk. He’ll likely begin next year at High A Myrtle Beach.

Both players were going to be slam dunk top five prospects on the upcoming Detroit prospect rankings.”

http://baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=646

Jeff Bennett is now even more irrelevant! Especially with Glavine looking inevitable (salary now free?)

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 29, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Wow, talk about mixed emotions…. Really going to miss Edgar, he was such a class guy.

I hope these kids work out. I suspect this is more of a payroll clearing move for the next shoe drop. Don’t worry about having too many prospects. They have a way of being turned into something you need.

By Patrick

October 29, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Here’s a thought about the timing of the trade. Last year when the Braves tried to get Glavine JS said that given two or three more days to move payroll they could have made him an offer but time wasn’t on there side. Do you think this may be a reason why the trade got done so early, so that when Glavine hits the market there is not a repeat of last year?

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

I wish we got a better pitching prospect in the deal, but Hernandez seems to have higher upside than Jordan Schafer. It seems odd though, now we have two stud Centerfield prospects. Which one plays at Double A Mississippi next season?

Hope Yunel is ready for the starting job. How could anyone say we downgraded defensively? Edgar was good, but his range left much to be desired. Oh well, I guess we will find out wehre this leads.

By ernesto

October 29, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

The Frank Wren era is off to a dubious, and slightly head-scratching, start.

By TommyP

October 29, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Check this out on Jurrjens:

His last two starts of the year were a bit rocky so maybe he hit a wall as far as innings pitched.

That said…

vs. Min: 5.1 IP, 2 hits vs. Tex: 5.0 IP, 3 hits Had a start vs. the Yanks that lasted only 1.1 innings but he only gave up a run. Not sure there. vs. Clev: 6.2 IP, 1 hit vs. Clev: 7.0 IP, 5 hits

Add quality control and it looks like we got a solid young pitcher.

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

October 29, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

By Shawn B October 29, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this If Hernandez takes the label as the centerfielder of the future, where does that leave Shafer and Lillibridge now???

Shawn B, good question!!!!

What do we do with yet another 1-3 years away from the big show outfielder??? I am glad to see someone with speed….but, I guess we are going to be stuck with the guy who stikes out a lot and hit .242 last year…that’s 20 points higher than we got last year, I guess I shouldn’t complain! ;)

By flange1

October 29, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

KC,

The more I think about this the more I agree with Grinch that this is step 1. Step 2 is put Lillibridge and one of the CF’s together and with a pitcher like Chuckie and you might just get a pretty good pitcher.

By Sir Stealth

October 29, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

I’ll hold back on judgment til I see what we end up doing in the rest of the offseason, but at this stage, this trade makes me feel completely ill. Escobar was great this past year and is ready but you can’t ignore the fact that the team went completely to crap in direct correlation with Renteria’s injury. Edgar Renteria was one of the best players in the entire major leagues last year. I had accepted trading him to address needs given Escobar’s readiness to play, but not for very good-but-not-mindblowing prospects, no way. Again, even if these guys are good, we just traded one of the best players in the entire major leagues going into a year that could be the last for Bobby Cox and heading toward the end of the line for the team’s two other biggest stars (Smoltz and Chipper).

Again, maybe this will lead to something better. But we just traded one of the best players in the entire major leagues and we’re not looking to rebuild this year. Somebody please give me reasons to feel better about this, otherwise I’m just gonna try not to think about it. For the record, I fully supported all of the trades that we made last offseason.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Anders-Why don’t you go to your room while the adults converse like adults? This was the first time in my life I ever heard of this particular player, so flippin excuse me if I hadn’t researched his birth records. Besides, if he’s from anywhere south of us, he’s probably 5 years older than they claim, anyway-if they even HAVE a birth certificate for him. He certainly wouldn’t count as the first case of THAT happening, now would it? I mean, it was interesting how fast Furcal aged when he got caught drinking.

All you’ve accomplished here today is to show (once again) that all you care to do is argue with Braves fans in general and with me in particular. You’ve been nothing but contentious, disingenuous and downright insulting to us as fans and our team. You have yet to address any questions we’ve asked you and seem intent on living in the past (two years) in all your comparisons between the Braves and Mets. Yes, you’re right-we came in behind the Mets for two years. So what? That makes as much difference to the 08 season as our 14 consecutive finishes in front of the Mets, prior to those two years.

At least the Braves just made a deal to help themselves. You still haven’t mentioned what plans the Mets may have to fill their needs, which are considerably more extensive than those confronting the Braves.

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

October 29, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Did I misunderstand the edict from MLB??? I thought they said there should be no baseball trades/managerial news for 24-48 hours after the WS ended??? So far, A-Rod announced the day the WS ended that he was opting out of his contract, and today the Yankees named their new manager, and the Braves made a big trade…is everyone thumbing their noses so to speak, at Selig???

By Gator

October 29, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Is Hernandez for CF depth if Schafer doesn’t work out or a trading chip?

James, Hernandez, Prado for Haren?

By raindawg722

October 29, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

KC: Why do you seriously doubt it is necessary to clear cash for Glavine?

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Trade was done for two reasons: Because Escobar is ready to start, and because moving Edgar’s $9 million salary gives Braves money to improve pitching.

I expect they’ll make an offer to Glavine soon as permitted, in another nine or 10 days. But Wren wouldn’t say anything about interest in him.

By Sir Stealth

October 29, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

I think it’s very telling that this trade is reported as the Tigers addressing a need. The Braves didn’t do anything likely to have a big impact on next season at this point except burn one of the best shortstops in the league.

I really hope nobody comes on here and says this is good because of what these players will do in the future. We were looking very good going into this season. Mark Teixera is an all star who has a very good chance of not being around after this year. Chipper Jones had near-MVP level year last year and is not going to be around forever. John Smoltz is an ace but his arm could fall off at any moment. Bobby is retiring, soon if not after next year. We have been told that we will have more salary to play with and just free up a ton by lettinig Andruw go. If we do sign Glavine, there’s another player who’s time here will be short.

I don’t care if Escobar was blocked, I’d rather play him at 2nd and move Kelly back to the outfield or keep Escobar in a platoon/bench role - anything to keep from just throwing Edgar away for players that won’t contribute immediately. Putting the best possible team out there for THIS YEAR should be the number one priority.

If we give these prospects to another team and get a good starting pitcher, I’ll still be disappointed we lost Edgar, but I will absolutely understand and feel a lot better. I hope it happens fast before I go find the nearest cliff.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Lew, others: The kid CF just turned 20. He is NOT a candidate for next year’s team. NOT.

I’m sure he won’t even be invited to spring training. He’s only played one full season in minors.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

I’m not surprised in the least by the Renteria trade. The Tigers were the logical choice with the best prospects to fit the Braves needs. Best wishes to Edgar in Detroit and the Braves just got two solid prospects , one of which will compete for a spot in the rotation. The Braves are wasting little time in getting all their ducks in a row. Tom Glavine is the next order of business.

By raindawg722

October 29, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Prospects are just prospects until they reach the major leagues. There’s nothing wrong with stockpiling them because you can always trade them for other pieces or move them to new positions (especially outfielders) and because sometimes they just never make it. As much as I like Edgar and agree that our season hit the skids when he went out of the lineup, I don’t think that we can really evaluate this deal until we see what we bring in with the extra room on the payroll. It will look a lot better if it helps us get Glavine and that centerfielder that we need.

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Perhaps it is too early to judge this trade, but I read a study which found that first impressions are correct over 70% of the time. My first impression is, we have a complete dud for a GM. I hope I am wrong. This guy has no Owner to blame for bad moves and stupid acquizitions. Hopefully he’ll be on a short leash if he screws this team up big time.

First impression is, he already shot the horse pulling the cart. Renteria was the biggest bargaining chip we had and now all we got is a couple of minor leaguers. Payne should be pleased. I am not. A minor leaguer with a .700 OPS is not impressive. I was hoping for a great pitcher, or at least one of more credentials than a AA call up. Below are the career minor league stats for these two players. Going by the age old “household name” factor, this was a disaster. No one in America will be talking about Jair and Gorkys at the dinner table except to say Wren has made a poor first impression. I hope my first impression is wrong. But what can I say? I was looking for trades that would help us win now and not maybe in 4 years.

Player       Age Ll W  L  G  GS ERA  IP    K   BB  WHIP
Jair Jurrjens 21 AA 35 22 89 84 3.21 502.2 404 121 1.19

Player           Age Ll   G  AB 2B 3B HR AVG  OBP  SLG
Gorkys Hernandez  20  A 174 686 25  7 9 .303 .348 .413

By Randy

October 29, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren just on 680. Looks like Jurrjens is expected to compete for a starting job. He ended the interview with something to the effect of “we are excited to add building blocks to our organization and this allows us to make some moves we want to make further down the road in the offseason.” Paraphrasing, but it sounded like one of these guys might get tossed into another deal (Hernandez would be the more obvious option). Clearly, all this is speculation, just givin ya my feel from the end of the interview.

By Sir Stealth

October 29, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, I understand the part about Escobar, but I absolutely do not see the part about salary. Even if the talk about Liberty allowing for more salary flexibility is complete and utter garbage, we just let Andruw Jones and his salary walk. Not to mention the fact that Edgar’s salary is a complete steal for him with the arrangement we made with the Red Sox - one would think you’d priortize salaries that were valuable even if high. And how do we use the money for a pitcher? I haven’t heard anything about us signing big free agents besides Glavine, so you’d think that whoever we’d trade for wouldn’t cost that much anyway. I’m ok with signing Glavine but would prefer not to call it a day after that. I think that trading Renteria for a willing-to-sign Glavine and these prospects, if that’s what we’ve basically done, is a crappy trade.

That’s obviously just my opinion, but I’m feeling awfully bad about this for someone who has to have been one of the top 5 most optimistic/pro everything the Braves have done people to post on this blog.

I know I should reserve judgment to see how this all pans out but I can’t help myself.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Well the Braves currently have two of the best CF prospects in baseball. Wow. I hope Jurrjens makes the team next year. Smoltz,Hudson, Glavine, Jurrjens and Hampton.

By TommyP

October 29, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

With Smoltz, Hudson and probably Glavine as our top 3, it’s good to see we got a #4 in Jurrjens and now have plenty of 5 options.

Could we make another deal? Absolutely.

But it’s worth noting that starting pitching depth is coveted by this organization, especially after what happened this past year.

This deal clears money for the Glavine signing and Andruw’s departure clears money for Tex.

I get the feeling that Lillibridge will get a great shot at CF and we’ll sign a veteran to platoon with him from the outset.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 29, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

Have to agree with Coach, not a bad trade for either club. If we all knew the future then Andruw would have been traded last year for two really good prospects and we would all be jumping for joy.

There is absolutely no downside to having two very good centerfield prospects in the system. There are three outfield positions so no problem.

Last year everyone whined because the Braves did not make any deals until January. make up your minds people….

By Random

October 29, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

*joebrave *

I like Reyes but only as a No.5,until He proves is meddle,I think that is His slot for now!!!

That’s mettle, not meddle (or metal or medal or middle).

By Amber

October 29, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe we gave away Renteria for two prospects. “Building blocks”??!?!?! That sounds an awful lot like “rebuilding” to me, which means dig down and expect a lotta losing.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

DOB-Like I said, I had never heard of either player before and spoke before I knew what his age was. I still like the idea of having that speed, even if it is in a couple of years. Any chance they would convert Schaeffer to 1B for another year or so down the road-if they don’t resign Tex?

By mr baseball

October 29, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Usually it’s the Braves trading prospects for vets. This is a little different from the standard Schuerholz fare, but Wren evidently did not study a pattern involving 3 of the most unsuccessful trades the allegedly genius ex-GM made.

Grissom & Justice for LOFTON & Embree; Dye & Walker for TUCKER & Lockhart; Boone & Klesko for VERAS, SANDERS & Joyner. In each trade, the ex-GM was desperate to acquire more speed, and in each case, the trades proved to be disasters.

Now Wren acquires a speedy minor leaguer and a decent pitching prospect for one of the game’s most solid shortstops. Where does Hernandez fit relative to Schafer? Is this the Braves way of saying that maybe Schafer is not the CF of the future?

Is Jurrgens any better than Chen, Meyer, Capellan, Colon, etc., minor league pitching prospects the Braves traded and have proven to be abject failures? Maybe Jurrgens will take a spot in the rotation that could have belonged to Wainwright. Maybe he’ll flop like those not so fab four.

Great news for Escober, who is handed the SS job; Johnson, who will start at 2nd; and Prado, who will back up in the infield, except maybe at SS.

Great news for the Tigers, who gave up prospects they could afford to dump and got a top caliber SS in return, not to mention the cash the Braves are throwing in.

Not so great news for the Braves, who are clearly not as good a team today as they were yesterday. Guessing Renteria’s salary will go towards acquiring a veteran CF or a middle of the rotation starter, but then again, it could just go into Liberty’s bank account. Not a good day for Braves fans, and it probably won’t be the last one until Spring Training.

I have a hard time buying into the idea that this was the best the team could get for Edgar. Schuerholz helped start the Braves’ post-season futility with his 2 trades in Spring Training in ‘97, and we may look back on this one (and the prospects dump for Tex) as deals that helped usher in an era of mediocrity for the franchise.

Or maybe Jurrgens will give the Braves what Wainwright might have, and it will help push the team back into the post-season. We’ll see. I will bet that this will definitely help get the Tigers back into the playoffs in ‘08.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 29, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Stay focused on the goal * major league ready pitchers by opening day*. Everything else follows that. I am glad Escobar got to watch Edgar this year. He has learned how to hit to right field this year. He was not doing that at Richmond.

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

There is a corollary to that old chestnut “you can’t have too much pitching” and it is this, “you can’t have too many quality prospects.”

I like this deal and love the idea of Escobar full-time at short and Kelly at second.

I also like the idea of Detroit getting better while the Yanks decline. Looking forward to DOB’s report on his Wren interview.

By Tomahawkin' Since '82

October 29, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

This trade addressed a need without exposing a position as a weakness. We added a young starting pitcher who shows good control and traded off our veteran shortstop (and a good chunk, at least, of his $9 salary, even though we were only paying part of it, anyhow). That’s okay, though, because nobody can argue that Yunel Escobar’s not ready to take the spot on a full-time basis.

Wow, talk about contending while continuing to get younger! Our starting 8 includes five guys under 30. The only rust on the ride is at 3B and Smoltz in the rotation - and one competed for a batting title while the other could’ve been a Cy Young candidate with better offensive support.

The point is, the Braves lose nothing in the deal - for right now. The 2008 Braves didn’t take a step back; and they quite possibly took a step or two forward by solidying their rotation for ‘08 and many future seasons with Jurrjens.

Good deal for both teams. It’d be nice to face the Tigers in the Fall Classic.

We can’t put a team together (or a rotation, either, for that matter) trying to factor in how we’d fare against the Red Sox, either. I won’t scroll back up to see who made that comment… it’s insipid to think that far ahead, anyhow. What we’re looking to do is build a team to…

1. Win the NL East

2. Win the NL Pennant

3. then win the World Series.

Sure, the Red Sox looked tough to beat in tne WS, but they’ll likely lose a piece out of their lineup in the offseason, anyhow, and ya never know how injuries will shake ‘em up, either. Plus, fate’s a fickle lady. Andruw was horrible this year, why not a Manny? Who knows….

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

From the looks of it…

Guys, the Tex trade kind of cooked our minor leagues. Not in a big way, but whenever you heard the Braves mentioned in trading for a Dan Haren, every analyst would say, “Who is left down there?”. Tons of talent at Single A, but not so much in the higher levels. I think this trade allows us to go out and acquire a big starter down the road. Maybe not this offseason, but maybe next year or midseason of 2008. Either way, Jurrjens should be a solid major league starter in the NL and Hernandez will hopefully build on what he has already done. His numbers in the pitching friendly park at Myrtle Beach will be a true test. Lotsa tools with that kid.

By Salty

October 29, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

Can anyone confirm the A-Rod sightings at Hartsfield???

By Gator

October 29, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Priority list…

1. Sign Glavine
2. Trade for Ryan Freel (Perhaps with a loser of the 5th rotation spot such as Bennett, and Prado…)
3. Extend Tex.
4. Sign Francouer
5. Add veteran bench player

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

for those of you unfamiliar with Jair Jurrjens. I just did a little legwork online. He is 21 year old right hander , throws a fastball that tops out around 97 , has a great change up and a curveball. He has great control on all three of his pitches and that fastball has some nasty movement coming over the plate. The Braves got a great arm who they obviously believe will compete for a spot in the rotation in spring training. The Braves /MLB website has a few video clips in his bio.

By Josh

October 29, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

I just buffed arod’s shoes at the airport. said he was on his way to talk to benjamin “frankwren”. gave me a pat on the head and two bits…cheap joker!

but seriously…

By Sir Stealth

October 29, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

I believe that we already were going to have pitching depth. We were gonna have Smoltz, Hudson, (probably) Glavine, (probably) Hampton, Chuck James, Cormier (starting season normally this time, where he looked like he’d be good), and JoJo Reyes. If that wasn’t enough, then we could have actually traded Renteria for someone who wasn’t a prospect instead of dumping him for (re)”building blocks.” Honestly, we had decent depth last season, but had the misfortune of 2 pitchers go down (Hampton and Cormier) before the year began and another being unable to make the leap (Davies). Even with all that, we still absolutely should have made the playoffs and likely would have if Andruw had had a mediocre offensive season rather than a godawful one. Also, we might have made it had Renteria not gotten hurt, after which the team went into a crippling tailspin. This is the same Renteria who we just traded for “building blocks.”

So in addition to not getting the salary consideration, I don’t even get how this one prospect, who really still is simply a prospect, does all that much for our pitching depth. He does a little for our pitching depth, nothing more. And we need more than a little for what we gave up.

By FSU Brave

October 29, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

I swear when I said I supported trading Edgar that I meant for a legit #2/#3 starting pitcher, not a AA outfielder and an unproven young pitcher!

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this

Schuerholz helped start the Braves’ post-season futility with his 2 trades in Spring Training in ‘97, and we may look back on this one (and the prospects dump for Tex) as deals that helped usher in an era of mediocrity for the franchise.

Wow mr baseball. All the way back to 1997! 10 years back. Impressive.
what’s going to help usher in an era of mediocrity is if Wren settles for more trading to acquire starters projected for the back end of the rotation and signs Cameron for center. 2009 and beyond will look descidingly mediocre. Smoltz is in the last guaranteed year of his contract. He has an option for 2009. If the Braves win it all and all that is coming back is back end starters and no bats, I could see Smoltz hanging it up and walking out on a high note. And I wouldn’t blame him. In baseball at 40+ you pretty much play to win or hit the lynx.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 29, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

This trade was solid. The Braves just shipped out $9 million in salary without having to incurr any execpt for the league minimum the young pitcher will have. They have a more than capable replacement for Renteria who is also dirt cheap. This frees up money for the Braves to pursue Glavine and another top flight pitcher. It may seem stupid on the surface but this was a brilliant move and I think its only a precursor to more moves.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

Well-As usual with some of the Denizens, we’re jumping to negative conclusions, yet again-not that we ever look at things with a myopic view or anything. I ask that we all remember our feelings with the Millwood/Estrada deal and to remember who well that turned out. We ended up with a Silver Slugger catcher who we ended up trading for a good long reliever-all this when we thought we had absolutely nothing.

At the very least here, we now have two top CF prospects and a projected number 4 starter (which we needed anyway). WE now have outfield prospects and tons of lower rotation pitchers we can use to acquire someone the Denizens may feel is more worthy.

AS these are two players, not even on our radar, who none of us (or damn few, anyway) had even heard of a half hour ago, we just have to trust that the powers that be might just know a bit more than we do, as this is what they are paid to do. I, for one can’t believe that we just dumped Edgar for players that have absolutely no value or any worth to us-even as trade pieces. It has been widely known that Edgar’s days were likely short in Atlanta. All the supposed experts think these kids are worthwhile. Why don’t y’all think so, as well? Apparently one kid can pitch at the ML level right now (and has ANYONE called for good YOUNG pitching recently?) The other one has the blazing speed that many of y’all have coveted for as long as I’ve been here on this blog. Maybe the front office knows something we don’t. Just look at what y’all said about Lillibridge when he was a throw in for La Roche, Sure have changed your tune since then.

By Josh

October 29, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

I recall a certain right-handed pitcher the braves acquired from detroit…what was his name…samsonite?

By Jared

October 29, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

Everyone spoke of “Glavine and one more young starter for the future” during the playoffs.

Jurrjens is the young starter for the future it appears.

By Sir Stealth

October 29, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

I think the Millwood for Estrada trade was lucky as hell and JS would admit the same. I think having a projected yet unproven number 4 and two top CF prospects is fantastic but decidedly less fantastic than having Edgar Renteria around. I will take it all back if we turn around and make another move that looks good (that is I think I will. Even if that happens we still traded Edgar for a lot less than Edgar - seems like he could have commanded more - look what Teixera got for the Rangers).

By Muggly Other

October 29, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

So we traded Edgar for another Chuck James? A low 90’s guy who depends on slider and change-up?

Geez this stinks!

Go to the Tigers blog and read some other heartening news about the guy…. he’s had shoulder problems.

Can you say Mike Gonzo? (or Hampton)

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

Mr.Baseball , you really should change your handle. your assertion that the Braves are a worse team today than they were yesterday is just your ignorance talking. Playoff teams are built around two main ingredients. 1. PITCHING 2. DEFENSE. Jurrjens is great young arm (PITCHING) and Escobar(DEFENSE) is a much better defender than Renteria. Maybe you slept through the World Series , the Red Sox had the best record in baseball (96-66) and they did it with PITCHING (second the the majors with an ERA of 3.87) and DEFENSE ( Third in fielding with a .986 percentage. H-E-L-L-O , wake up and smell the coffee my friend , this trade is what the Braves have to do in order to compete with the best.

By JC FROM UT

October 29, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

The money going along with Edgar, I assume is the money coming from Boston? Therefore it is kind of a wash right? I sure wouldn’t be suprised if one of these prospects acquired today will only be a Brave for a short time before he is packaged for a #2-3 pitcher.

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB) got it just right. This is the kind of trade that on first glance looks thin, but when you go into in more deeply, there are a lot of positives. And remember, Edgar is a free agent after ‘08 if I am not mistaken although he could have a one-year club option at a considerably higher salary. In short, this was the best time to trade him. And fellow baseball wonks, we are not the only ones who know that Edgar’s range is diminishing. This looks good all the way around to me. While it is easy to understate his value for the last two years, it may also be easy to overstate his value in the coming years.

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

Jared, better be careful bringing up Baseball Prospectus here. You’ll get accused of being a stathead or unoriginal.

By Sir Stealth

October 29, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

Coach, what great pitching did we add that you’re so excited about? I’m not seein’ any.

Renteria’s defense was very above average last year. His offense was way above average. But I guess we should just start 8 Rafael Belliards and call everyone who doesn’t think that’s a good idea ignorant.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

I recall a certain right-handed pitcher the braves acquired from detroit…what was his name…samsonite?

I recall a certain left handed pitcher the braves acquired from detroit… what was his name …. ledismal?

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

The Braves just shipped out $9 million in salary without having to incurr any

Minus the cash we sent along right? Any reports yet on that one? I’m curious to know what we sent to the Tigers for this. Renteria was costing the Braves $6 million in salary. Perhaps we just shipped that $3 million Boston gave us to the Tigers. Either way, the Braves didn’t clear $9 million in salary with this trade.

But hey, look on the bright side everyone, we have yet another back end starter in the system. I’m curious if anyone knows the break down on prospects… how many pitchers that were projected to be backend starters at best turned out to be #1 or #2 starters? I know the path to the majors is covered with the corpses of #1, top ranked prospects which never panned out. How many guys slide under the radar and turn into stars? I’m thinking that percentage is fairly small.

By LT (double A blogger)

October 29, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

I think this was a smart trade. The Brave now have money to sign Glavine (who will make a servicable #3).

1) Hudson 2) Smoltz 3) Glavine 4) James/Jurrjens/Reyes/Hampton 5) James/Jurrjens/Reyes/Hampton

That looks like a pretty good start. The dealing may not be done.

Oh yeah, sorry to leave out Cormier to all those Cormier lovers! Maybe Cormier can return to that electric spring training form he had last year.

By Randy

October 29, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

Muggly Other - You are joking, right? First off, Jurrjens had slight shoulder soreness. No relation to Hampton and Gonzalez, who had major ELBOW problems. Second, this guy is not like Chuck James at all. Chuck tends to top out around 91 on his fastball, Jurrjens consistently hits 94. Jurrjens fastball also seems to have some sink on it (haven’t seen numbers on him for flyballs vs. groundballs, just judging from video). Jurrjens also has 3 pitches much earlier on in his career than Chuck. Very different pitchers.

By TommyP

October 29, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

Sir Stealth: The more you post, the less it appears you know about baseball.

To call the Estrada deal “lucky” isn’t very smart. Maybe a bit “fortunate” but not “lucky.”

Estrada was a top prospect for several years for Philly before losing a bit of the “prospect luster” due to his age only. They had Lieberthal and there was no reason to bring Estrada up.

And then you earlier called Renteria one of the best players in baseball? Give me a break.

We just got a 4th starter for now (probably develop into a 3rd at least) who is only 21 years old! Someone posted his fastball tops out at 97 but I haven’t read that anywhere but here. Low 90s is what I’ve read.

Look at the kid’s August and September starts in the American League this year. Several starts where he only gives up 1 or 2 hits!

Look at what he did in AAA before his callup.

What did you expect to get for Renteria?

Oh yeah…he’s “one of the best in baseball.” I forgot. You expected a Texeira-deal.

LOL

By Shaun

October 29, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

Baseball America had Jair Jurrjens as the Tigers number four prospect before this season and Gorkys Hernandez as their number seven prospect.

They rated Jurrjens the best control pitcher in the Tigers organization.

By Josh

October 29, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Touche! Let’s hope Jurrjens falls closer to samsonite than ledismal

I would imagine the cash we sent is the subsidy from boston, no?

By Lew

October 29, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Sir Stealth-Dude, calm down before you have a coronary or stroke out. I too, advocated keeping Edgar, because I knew damn well we weren’t going to get the #2-3 starter everyone coveted. However, just a week ago, there were numerous denizens advocating trading Edgar for either Lowrey or Bonderman, both of whom spent the last month of the season hurt, with arm issues and seem to be locks for TJ surgery. At least Jurjens (or whatever) is healthy.

Just how in the world do you know if this guy won’t work his way into a #2 starter, or even better? He looks pretty good right now and is ready to go. We already have a #1 and #2 starter in Smoltz and Hudson, we’re all pretty convinced we will get a #3 in Glavine and everyone was loathe to use any of the rest (James, Reyes, Cormier, Bennett or Hampton) as anything other than a #5 starter. We just got a #4 guy with tons of upside to move higher in the rotation WHEN WE NEED HIM TO. Isn’t that exactly what we needed and what we were looking for-young pitchers with plenty of future potential? The fact we traded Edgar shouldn’t shock you-it was inevitable.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

Sir Stealth , if you would get your head out of your butt , you could see what the rest of us already know. It’s a good trade for both teams.

By Jared

October 29, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

I think it goes: Smoltz-Hudson-Glavine-James in the 1-4 spots with Hampton, Reyes or Jurrjens in the #5 slot.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 29, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

Having two top-flight CF prospects in the minors is not a bad thing, folks. After all, major-league ready players have to come from somewhere, and Hernandez has the pedigree to be something special … eventually. Jacoby Ellsbury will be patrolling center field in Fenway for a long time, and where was he this time last season?

And yes, dumping Edgar’s salary should free up money to sign — I don’t know — Kenny Lofton to a one-year deal? Or to lock up Frenchy to a long-term contract? Options abound, and that’s a great position to be in.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

Sir Stealth , your statement that Renteria’s defense is above average is sheer ignorance on your part. Among starting short stop’s he ranked 22nd in fielding and 25 in put outs. Remember , there are 30 teams. Renteria’s offense is solid , he was 1st in batting average , 11th in HR’s , 16th in RBI and 14th in stolen bases.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

Coach, agreed totally. Good trade for both teams.

By Danny

October 29, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

Guys who want Glavine must be crazy…but how bout this. sign glavine,then see if jamie moyer is available,who knows maybe maddog too…then we would win the whole thing….LMAO…makes no sense…gotta start going young people. Just think about it for a sec. smoltzie=old(but still great) hampton=oldish,injury prone…glavine=done,washed up,no good in the clutch, and so on. i’ll check and see if my grandpa is available too..

need to try and get a solid / young 4th or 5th starter…and let the young guns learn while smoltzie is still here.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

JC, money’s not nearly equal, braves giving far less to detroit, even on a per-year basis for next season, than the $11 mill they got from Boston in the original trade.

Don’t know exact figure yet, but Braves aren’t giving Tigers a significant amount, I’m told.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

I hear ya on that one josh.

Not the trade I was expecting but since when do the Braves ever make the trade you are expecting? Our speculation is fun and all but we never seem to guess right with the Braves front office.

Wren moves fast. Wren ain’t a hot stove guy. He’s more of a microwave guy I guess.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

By the way, Frank said Braves have to be sure they have a backup infielder who can play shortstop. That’s not gonna be Prado.

Might be Aybar, but too early to know. They’re going to look, keep options open, etc.

Aybar has just started to play winter ball for Licey.

By mr baseball

October 29, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

Coach: always enlightening to be lectured to by someone with such a clueless grasp of the facts. If playoff teams are built around pitching, please explain the 2007 Rockies, Phillies & D’Backs. They had the grand total of 1 major league caliber starter each, which last time I checked, was 1 less than the Braves.

Where were the Dodgers, Padres & Mets, teams with superior pitching to the three that made it? For that matter, where were the Braves, who had 2 front line starters, which I think is more than 1. (I was taught math by a coach in high school.)

I don’t necessarily have a problem with the Braves trading Renteria. Given the presence of Escobar, Edgar was clearly the most valuable trading chip the Braves had. It would have been preferable to trade him for a more established player who fits a need the team might have (CF, starting pitcher).

As I said, Jurrgens might turn out like Wainwright did for the Cardinals. On the other hand, it is more likely that he will bear some resemblance to Chen, Capellan, Damian Moss, etc., than Wainwright or a young Smoltz.

With Escobar waiting in the wings, trading Renteria makes sense, but any time you trade a useful veteran for prospects, you’re taking a gamble. Maybe this one will pay off. I don’t know and for dam sure, you don’t know.

Anybody who thinks the Red Sox won the World Series because of their pitching and defense and ignores their offense has absolutely no business offering opinions on a blog like this, because it is glaringly evident that you’re knowledge of baseball runs the gamut from A to A.

It is true that opinions are like a*******holes. Everybody does have one. Some are just more worthless than others.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Oh, and I asked and was assured by Frank that neither of these guys the Braves got will be traded this winter, in other words they didn’t get them to trade them, not at all.

I can see wisdom in having two young top CF prospects. Figure they’ll have a winner in at least one of them once he reaches the majors. Can’t just put all eggs in the Schafer basket. This new kid would be ready a year or two after Schafer, if Braves still have both of them by then.

Sounds like this guy has even more natural talent, blazing speed and very strong arm (Schafer has good speed and a cannon arm).

This new guy sounds like a definite leadoff man, too.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

Braveheart , calling Frank Wren the microwave man , Hilarious ! I’m laughing my butt off at that one , good stuff.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 29, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Too early to know, as you said. So where Lillibridge plays in winter ball will be telling, won’t it?

By Lew

October 29, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Uh, Danny-The Braves just got a young #4-5 starter about an hour and a half ago. You hadn’t heard?

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Hernandez has higher upside than Schafer. Schafer will start in Double A.

Jurrjens is solid. He has very good command of his pitches.

I like the trade overall. I would rather these two prospects than Nate Robertson any day of the week.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Geez, people, get a grip. Some here seem to be penciling Jurrjens in as the All-Star game starter, fergawdsake. The kid’s 21, so he’s got some ceiling, but he’s hardly a lock for the 2008 rotation, let alone being all-world. I imagine Reyes is WAY ahead on the depth chart, if he isn’t traded.

And since no one expects this to be Wren’s last attempt at solidifying the rotation (by which I mean securing a pitcher not named Glavine), Jair is just as likely to hit Richmond as Atlanta on April 1; no room at the inn, I hope. Personally, I don’t see that as a bad thing.

By Lew

October 29, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

DOB-With Frank Wren’s proclamation about a backup at short, does this mean they will definitely use Lillibridge in center, as opposed to backing up in the infield?

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

Did anyone else hear Wren on Buck & Kinkade?

Wren started talking about the rotation. He mentioned Smoltz and Hudson of course. Mentioned Hampton. Said he expects JoJo and Jurrjens to compete for a spot in spring training but expected that each might need a little more seasoning in AAA.

Wren never mentioned Chuck James. Curious omission. Not in the plans or just an oversight? If even an oversight, is that in of itself telling?

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

You folks are also ignoring the hidden benefit of this trade. Braves traded Elvis, but now have Gorkys. I mean, you gotta have ONE cool name in the organization! :-)

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

I think Jurrjens is higher on the depth chart than Reyes is. Or maybe equal. Either way, the Braves just stregthened the back end of this rotation with this trade and also acquired the Tigers 2nd best position prospect behind Cameron Maybin. He most definetly will be in our Top 10, if not Top 5.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this

Mr. baseball , your a total fraud with that name. Eight teams made the playoff’s. Boston 1st in ERA , the Cubs 4th in ERA , the Indians 5th in ERA , Arizona 7th in ERA , Angels 11th in ERA , Rockies 14th , Yankees 17th and Phillies 23rd. We saw who won it all , the Rockies were one of those hot Cinderella teams that got hot at the right time and then ran out of gas. It’s about great pitching , solid defense and timely hitting. That is nuts and bolts baseball.

By Josh

October 29, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Just watched the videos in Jurrjens profile on the Braves profile. The one titled “Jurrjens strikes out six” was especially impressive to watch.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Hey, check out Jurrjens’ opponents’ average stats in his seven starts with Detroit:

.220 (24-for-109) with four homers, 11 walks, 13 K.

vs. LHB: .262 (16-for-61) with two homers, 10 walks, 6 K, .366 OBP, .508 slugging

vs. RHB .167 (8-for-48) with two homers, 1 walk, 7 K, .196 OBP, .313 slugging.

Dude DOMINATED right-handed batters, and consider the teams he faced: Cleveland (twice), Yankees, Minnnesota (twice), Texas and K.C.

Five of his seven starts were against good teams.

Interesting.

By TommyP

October 29, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

Jurrjens will make a fine #4 in the NL, NCScoots.

I’ll bet you they are counting on him in that slot or the #5 slot at worst.

However, I think Jojo is also going to be in the rotation as well next year.

Unless the Braves make a deal for another top starter, I see a rotation of Smoltz/Hudson/Glavine/Jurrjens/Jojo.

I think Chuck James could be trade bait or perhaps he’ll start the year as the #4. However, it’s nice to have him as surplus if no deal takes place.

Hampton is just icing on the cake if he can make it back for, say, half a season.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

Lew, no, doesn’t mean that about Lillibridge.

He just said they need a guy who can back up short. Didn’t say if it would come from within, outside organization, nothing. just said they have to have one.

But they’re not going to keep Lillibridge as a backup shortstop. He has to play to keep developing.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

Schaefer is Sizemore, Gorkys is Ellsbury, Lillibridge is Biggio?

By A.J.

October 29, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

Where has everyone gotten the idea that Hernandez has better upside than Schafer?

Not to cut down on Hernandez, he sounds great. But Schafer is the guy someone said had Steve Finley’s work ethic with Grady Sizemore talent.

Hernandez sounds faster, and certainly more of a base stealing threat.

I’m pretty sure the basic thought is that Schafer is #1, Hernandez 1A.

But anytime you can project a roster in 4 years or so, based only on what you have right now, (with the only assumption being that we resign Tex and give Francoeur a deal)

c - McCann 1b - Tex 2b - KJ SS - Escobar LF - Hernandez CF - Schafer RF - Francoeur

The only question would be 3b.

Obviously this isn’t a sure thing, but it sounds good.

By TommyP

October 29, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Just check out Jurrjens August/September starts and look at the amount of hits he gave up.

I posted this earlier but it might open the eyes of several on here criticizing the trade.

If you don’t walk many…and hardly anyone is getting a hit…uh, sounds pretty good to me.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

But, Efrim, how will Gorkys make the Braves’ top prospects list with all those pitchers on it that you and Lew like? :-)

I’ll agree that adding Jurrjens strengthens the rotation depth, if not necessarily the starting rotation on April 1. I still think Gil gets to see lots and lots of good AAA pitching this year at Richmond, even with potential future trades.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Wren also said on Buck and Kinkade that he has already received phone calls from other teams about Gorkys - that’s how highly thought of he is around baseball.

By Steve from OH

October 29, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

Watched Jurrjens’ video on the Braves’ website…the dude does look impressive. I also liked that the gun reading said 94-95, not 90-91 (although it is how you throw it, not how hard). I was pleased to see that we got him when I read the deal, but I really didn’t know anything about Gorkys—but he sounds really good, too.

Wren made a good move. I love it…wait. Check that. The only way I won’t love the deal is if that “backup shortstop” Wren talks about is Woodward.

Efrim, the 7:22 post about Robertson is spot on.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 29, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

Assuming the Braves will sign Glavine , this leaves the Braves ten deep in starters. That spells P.L.A.Y.O.F.F.S

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

A.J

From the reports I am reading, Hernandez has more upside. But to be honest, who cares. Both kids are great prospects.

DOB

Getting crowded in the Braves Minor Leagues with all the Outfield talent we have. To break it down:

RF Jason Heyward

LF Cody Johnson

CF Jordan Schafer

LF Brandon Jones

CF Gorkys Hernandez

And if Lillibridge is moved to CF???

Lots of LHP and OF. Gotta love it.

By MikeS

October 29, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this

DOB, so much for taking a few days off, eh??

I like Jurrjens alot. Saw him a bit down the stretch and he looks solid. He might top out at 97 like someone mentioned, but i think he’s more in the 92-94 range; which is fine for a guy with good command and good off-speed pitches.

Sounds like Gorkys is loaded with talent too, just a ways away. But you have to like stockpiling tools like that.

I am, of course, sad to see Edgar go. He’s arguably the best number 2 hitter in the game and was our MVP last year until he went down. But we all knew this was coming and it makes complete sense for the Braves (who needed to open up a spot for Yunel, so why not shave payroll in the process now for a guy who will be an FA in a year and has good trade value). Just a great, professional hitter and from DOB’s accounts, a good guy as well.

I think we all got a little carried away here thinking that Edgar would bring us back a Haren or Cain or Lowry (due to both our naivety and Braves bias) . As good as Edgar is, it just doesn’t make much sense for the other team to trade away a young, proven, CHEAP starter for him. So initially I was a little disappointed, thinking we could get more back in return, but I’m starting to think this was a pretty good deal for us and that it was on par for what Edgar should bring back.

Either way, this offseason just got started, FAST!

By TommyP

October 29, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this

Can Prado backup at short?

Seems to me that he could play 2B, SS or 3B.

Boston sure wanted him this past spring. (for 2B, I’m sure)

I always thought he was a 2B by trade but could swing over to play the other two.

By DonCoburleone

October 29, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Good news for Atlanta. I was thinking all along that Renteria would be traded for one ML ready starter and another prospect, so it works out well. Now we have a potential CF/Leadoff man for the future and a high ceiling pitching prospect WITH major league experience.

For people complaining about Renteria I can see your point, but, with Renteria the last 2 years the Braves are a .500 team! Its time to shake things up and go after more pitching. You have to look at it logically, getting rid of Renteria allows us to get Glavine, a solid #3 starter heading into next season. Replacing 32 starts from Redman/Cormier/Reyes/Carlyle/Bennet for 32 starts from Tom Glavine is worth at least 5 wins on the season. Replacing Renteria with Escobar at SS is only a drop off of 2 or 3 wins AT MOST. Plus we get 2 very good prospects who can fill potential holes for us this year AND in the future. What’s not to like??

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

Hampton is just icing on the cake if he can make it back

Five-layer cake there, Tommy, no icing. If he’s healthy, he’s in the rotation. No ifs or buts. There goes one of the J Boys (Jurrjens/JoJo/James); and if Wren makes a deal for another pitcher? Adios to one more.

Again, I say, this is not a bad thing. A Richmond rotation of James, Jurrjens, Jojo, Jeff Bennett, and Dan Smith? Lordamercy. Rather having to call up a journeyman for a spot start or injury fill-in, you get one of those guys? I’m mucho OK with that.

By N8

October 29, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

TommyP

Totally agree on you Chuck assessment (possible trade bait).

The Braves (Bobby) was clearly frustrated by his inability to get past the 6th inning (and sometimes the 5th) towards the end of last year. Add to that the PRAISE he has given Jo-Jo, I believe that Jo-Jo is the frontrunner for the rotation, assuming we sign Glavine and the new guy (I’m gonna refer to him as JrJ from now on), will make the rotation.

I can’t imagine they’d trade Renteria and not get at least one guy that can help immediately. And it doesn’t appear as the young CF they acquired is gonna start in CF next year. That is unless they have other “moves” in the works. Maybe both Jo-Jo and Chuck go to the A’s for Haren? Who knows?

I can tell you this much. We might not have 4 aces in the rotation anymore, but we have MANY more options for the 4th and 5th spots than we did last April.

Whether it’s enough….

By Chris Woodward

October 29, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

Looking for a backup shortstop you say?

By ChrisinPA

October 29, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

Is it me, or does it seem a little quick for Jurrjens to be in a Braves uniform on the homepage? Was he at the press conference? I doubt it…anyone else find this strange?

By Brad in MT

October 29, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

I must say, at first glance I was a little surprised that we didn’t get any proven major leaguers for Edgar, but the more I think about the trade, the more I like it. Jurrjens stats are good and his highlight videos on the Braves site look like he has great stuff. I think Escobar is every bit as good as Edgar, and now we have a lot more money to spend on other wholes. I am starting to really think this was a good trade.

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Hmm is Jurrjens still a “prospect”?

If so, here is our top 10 prospects(my version):

1) RF Jason Heyward

2) CF Jordan Schafer

3) LHP Cole Rohrbough

4) LF Brandon Jones

5) RHP Jair Jurrjens

6) CF Gorkys Hernandez

7) SS Brent Lillibridge

8) RHP Thomas Hanson

9) LF Cody Johnson

10) LHP Jeff Locke

That is a very good Top 10. We definetly picked up the slack left from the Tex trade. I love the move.

By DonCoburleone

October 29, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

It’s all about rotation depth for the Braves this year. Here is what I think their rotation will look like to start the year: Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton, James. There is no way Jurrjens or Jo Jo or Bennet gets the #5 spot over Chuck James. Not one of those 3 have accomplished anything close to what Chuck James has at the Major League level. Now, this is of course assuming Hampton comes into next season healthy and ready to pitch. But if he’s not, then it becomes a battle of Jurrjens, Jo Jo, and Bennet for the #5 spot. We have to sign Glavine though, otherwise we don’t have a true #3 and we won’t have any rotation depth if Smoltz/Hudson/James goes down with injury…

By Yars

October 29, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

Sad to see Edgar go, but I have all the faith in an infield of : 3B Chipper, SS Yunel, 2B KJ, 1B TEX. I’m now curious as to what the makeup of the bench will look like. Both Prado & Aybar could be the backup infielders.

By bfan54

October 29, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

You’ve got to be kidding or insane to say that the Yankees are still in play for A-Rod. $21 million and Yankee pride says so. You simply cannot back away from a Shermanesque statement like those made by top Yankee brass. They meant what they said and are NOT going to eat the $21 million dollars they have lost once A-Rod officially opts out of his contract. Leave such thoughts in your empty heads and come join us in the real world, after your heads stop rattling.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

So, DonC, your plan for world domination is to start three lefties who can’t break 90 back-to-back-to-back?

Oops.

By Tyler

October 29, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

I’ll bet you a deal of Chuck James and maybe Devine and Prado for a very good pitcher. So what, we give up “pitching depth” to acquire someone like Blanton or Haren. That would be a friecking dream.

I like the trade. Jurrjens should be competing for the #5 in spring training if everything works out. We should have Smoltz, Hudson, Haren/Blanton, Glavine, Jurrjens/Reyes/Hampton. CF should be patrolled by Lillbridge. I’m excited for next season.

By the way, someone was saying they weren’t sure who would take over for Chipper in a few years. Eric Campbell, anyone? If he can get his act together he could, or Lillbridge could take over SS and Escobar at 3B. Possibly even Aybar. Like I said, I’m excited.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

Efrim, Jurrjens is a prospect in the same way Reyes is. Gray area, some don’t include guys with that much major league experience, but most people do when rating prospects.

I don’t know that Hernandez goes ahead of Lillibridge, though.

By bfan54

October 29, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

I said it here first. The “opt out” move may be the beginning of the end for Boras. Getting another team to top 6-8 years at 25-30 million is not a guaranteed outcome. Wouldn’t it be nice if Boor-a* overestimated the value this player. Think of it. I did. So what if I am wrong, won’t be the first time.

I stand by comments about the lame brains who still the Yankees are in the mix for an A-Rod signing. Never, never, never, never, never, never happen! Think about it, when your empty heads stop echoing!

By JasonInMaine

October 29, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

Here is a Wren quote from ESPN.com:

“This trade wouldn’t make much sense in a vacuum if it was the only deal we were going to make”

By Tomas

October 29, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

Hello, Just heard the news about Renteria, it’s the right move but still I feel sad that a player of Renteria’s caliber is going away. For the time he spent with the Braves he proved he was a very complete player, and I’m glad for everything he did for this team. It’s the right move for several factors: - He had 10 millions left on his contract - Yunel is ready to play everyday as he proved - AND Edgar is much older than Escobar.

The prospects they got acording to what i’ve heard are pretty good. A good 21-year-old Jurrjens right handing starting pitcher, and a speedy centerfielder, 20-year-old Hernandez. Hernandez should be an amazing pick, in a couple of years he could make the club as it’s leadoff hitter which they have been lacking since Furcal left.

I dont want Glavine back, and this are my reasons: - Glavine is in his 40’s - If he gets injured thats it. - He is a slow throwing lefthander like “Mark Redman”. - I think that for 8 million you can get a better pitcher

Fact is they need another veteran starting pitcher. Unfortunately 75% of free agent pitcher have 40 or older. In reality theres no pitcher that truly could be an impact player. Relief pitching is finally ok, I think that if mike gonzales comes back healthy, the Braves will have the best relief pitching out there. For center, I think Cameron is the best cheap option, but I would only give him a one year deal. Another option could be trading for Coco Crisp, if they accept a guy like Schafer instead of Kelly Johnson, and Coco would only make 5million per year, and his contract ends 2009. He is only 27 runs very well he is a perfect fit for the leadoff role, and he has gold glove cuality defense, and the most important part is that Boston is looking to trade him, with them already having Jacoby Elllsbory in center. If I’m Frank Wren I trade for Coco, and when his contract expires Gorkis Hernandez will be ready.

Pitchers I would consider(only by viewing at the free agent list are: - Kris Benson - Bartolo Colon - Kip Wells - Tom Glavine (if theres no other choice)

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

Finally got home and had more time to review this… and more time to consume some alcohol.
I’m still bummed. Or at least, not excited.
I was looking for a better, more promising pitcher. Perhaps this just means one of our can’t miss guys already in the system is getting packaged for something more. The more I drink the better this #4 pitcher is looking. But I sober up everytime I come to the “experts” projections of a #4 starter. Would have been much happier with a #2 projected starter that was still in the minors.
I sober up even further when I research this guy and find he wasn’t in the top 75 prospect lists this season… beat out by Pelfrey.

Whatever. We’ll see what Wren can do with the next 4 months of hot stove cooking.

By N8

October 29, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

I’ve actually changed my mind on my “nickname” for the new guy.

Since he has a J in his first name and two of them (J’s that is) in his last name, I’m gonna go old school MTV for his nickname…….JJJ or Triple J if you will.

Of course there will never be another J.J. Jackson…..thank god! LOL!

By Lew

October 29, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

DOB-Thanks for the clarification on Lillibridge’s status. I guess I would feel a bit more secure with a veteran presence as backup-especially with Prado (if that’s who it will be) backing up 2B. Of course, Aybar is hardly an old man, either, if he comes back in good shape and they bring him up. We will have a pretty young team as it stands, with Yunel starting everyday and with the possible inclusion of Brandon Jones in the outfield.

By Jared

October 29, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

I dont want Glavine back, and this are my reasons: - Glavine is in his 40’s - If he gets injured thats it. - He is a slow throwing lefthander like “Mark Redman”. - I think that for 8 million you can get a better pitcher

Really unfair to compare Glavine to Redman. When was the last time Glavine went on the DL? And yes, Glavine is the best you can get for eight million.

Kip Wells and Kris Benson are pretty horrible.

“This trade wouldn’t make much sense in a vacuum if it was the only deal we were going to make”

Just like Schuerholz. Just come out and say it: “I am going to use this money to sign either Tom Glavine or Mike Cameron.”

By N8

October 29, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

Thomas

Sorry to rip you (actually I’m not) for this comment about Glavine. Keep in mind I’m NOT a huge Glavine fan. In fact I wasn’t sad to see him leave. But that being said, he can STILL help this team next year. Anyhow you said:

“He is a slow throwing lefthander like “Mark Redman”. - I think that for 8 million you can get a better pitcher”

Really. No, I mean *REALLY!!, you’re gonna compare Glavine to Redman?

Glavines last three starts of the year (he was OBVIOUSLY fatigued), resulted in him throwing only 10.1 innings while allowing 17 ER (14.81). Good? Hardly. But they were his WORST (and last) 3 starts in a row for the season.

Redman on the other hand, had a stretch of 3 games where he allowed 14 ER over 15.2 innings (8.62 ERA). You wanna know when those starts were? His FIRST three of the year.

Let me rephrase that for you. Glavine wore down and didn’t have it in late September, on a team where he was the ACE! In Atlanta, he’ll be the 3rd starter AT BEST. We don’t need him to be strong in September, (we have Hudson and Smoltz for that), we need him (Glavine) to be strong from April to August. That’s where the dirty work will be put in, to put us in a position to make the playoffs and let our two horses carry the weight of the post-season pressure.

You comparing Glavine to Redman is as STUPID as whoever the knucklehead was last night that compared Manny Ramirez to Lonnie Smith.

Nice try though.

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

Chrisinpa — yes, I too was taken aback seeing JJJ in a Braves outfit… maybe it was digital magic.

By ssiscribe

October 29, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Top of the evening, denizens. You know I love Edgar and I wish he hadn’t been traded, but it’s a deal that helps both clubs.

The pitcher, Jurrjens, throws low to mid 90s, pitches inside, has very good control and faced some good lineups in his limited time in the bigs this past summer. He’s definitely got a chance to go north as the fourth or fifth starter.

The outfield prospect may not ever make it to Atlanta, but he also may be the starter here in 2010. Good not to hang all hope on Schafer in center field, either. If Hernandez ends up being the guy, then Schafer goes elsewhere, or vice versa.

Checked out the video of Jurrjens from some of his outings this summer. Like the way he throws.

Those of you who know me know what I think of Edgar, his leadership, his steadying presence, etc. You also know my fear of who is going to play third base when Chipper goes down for a month next year (you know it will happen). Sure, Escobar’s gotta play every day. I just wonder what will happen when Hoss goes down.

But all in all, for now, initial reaction is I like the deal. Good for both teams.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Scalp 'Em Braves

October 29, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

The Yankees remain the Evil Empire, irrespective of the fact they have not won a WS in what seems like forever. Of course, since the Braves haven’t won one in 10 years, what is longer than forever? Say what you want about the new rich, spend whatever it takes, win at all cost bully on the block… they are not owned by Stein Vader, and they don’t have our former manager (and now the former manager of the Stankees) guiding them to the dynastic label.

It is going to be interesting to see what Team SteinStupid does to bring back the franchise’s former shine. Though I like Joe Girardi, I hope they fall flat on their face. They’ve tried this formula before (former catcher, Italian descent). It worked once, very well (Torre) and didn’t work once (Yogi). Both very likeable people, both good baseball guys. The difference was that the stars lined up on the players for Torre, with some big plays and sheer stupidity/luck mixed in (read, Leyritz’s homer in game 3 against us - I’ll never like, or forgive that guy). AS for round 3, we’ll wait and see.

By bo

October 29, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

Just a thought…the Braves might be considering a trade with Oakland as a result of this move. The A’s are looking to possibly move Dan Haren and/or Joe Blanton this offseason while they are at potential max values for a trade (young, proven and on the verge of stardom with a reasonable salary). The Braves could possibly be offering Jurrjens, Gorkys Hernandez (Schafer?), and Joey Devine. Devine could replace Justin Duscherer if he moves to the rotation as mentioned here: http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071019&contentid=2272581&vkey=newsoak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak.

Is Matt Diaz included in some way? Possibly….he is a Billy Beane type of guy.

We shall see……you heard it here first.

By bo

October 29, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

Just a thought…the Braves might be considering a trade with Oakland as a result of this move. The A’s are looking to possibly move Dan Haren and/or Joe Blanton this offseason while they are at potential max values for a trade (young, proven and on the verge of stardom with a reasonable salary). The Braves could possibly be offering Jurrjens, Gorkys Hernandez (Schafer?), and Joey Devine. Devine could replace Justin Duscherer if he moves to the rotation as mentioned here: http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071019&contentid=2272581&vkey=newsoak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak.

Is Matt Diaz included in some way? Possibly….he is a Billy Beane type of guy.

We shall see……you heard it here first.

By Randy

October 29, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

bo - Just wondering how Diaz is a Billy Beane kind of guy. He does not walk a lot, he does not see a great deal of pitches per AB. The only Billy Beane traits I see are that he is not impressive physically and is undervalued by some for perceived defensive inadequacies. And I guess he’s cheap, at least he has been so far (not sure what arbitration will bring if he’s a super 2).

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Who will play 3rd when Chipper goes down for a month, who will backup SS?

Here’s a near certainty, their fans will not be satisfied with Betemit at 3rd, so the Yankees will sign or trade for an expensive “name” (read Lowell, Cabrera, Ramirez, etc. here). Should be able to pick up Wilson cheap.

You read it here first.

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 29, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Lew… Thanks for the info you and othrs provided on the pitchers in the minors. Just now gotstarted on the DOB/MIB blog.

Nscoots agree with lots of your comments today on the trade. Gorkys cool name, wonder if it means anything in spanish?

By BossLady

October 29, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

I wish Renteria the best and he is with his coach. Jim Leyland and Renteria goes back a long way.

“you and me — we go a long way back”

It would be funny to see Selig try to sue Boras. Boras can bury him in paperwork and MONEY for a long time.

Thanks much? LOL 1985 or 1990?

Now, we can get down to business I hope that we get some strong young arms for Edgar.

No need to worry about Andruw, A-Rod of J D Drew, Boras has got their backs.

I know he is not liked on this blog, I just like to see HUGE business in progress. Sometimes when I get mad with Boras, I sit back and say “this is America” Did you see how much money the Japanese charged just to talk to the Boston pitcher? It is amazing what America spends for their past time. I love it!!!!

I also wish that Andruw get his contract and all that is desired. He gave us all his good years and I refuse to turn on him because he had a bad year.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

October 29, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

Not cracking on Edgar here at all - great guy, great player, brought a lot to our team the last 2 years. But, what are we losing everyday versus what we are gaining? Renteria - clutch hitter, especially to opposite field.. Escobar - ditto. Rent - good power.. Escobar, doesn’t have Rent’s power, YET. Rent’s glove - very good.. Escobar - ditto. Rent’s arm from deep in the hole - accurate, but little pop… Escobar - a freakin gun. There are other subjective measures many may point out. But, I think we’ll be fine with Escobar.

With those of you b1tching that we need a “proven veteran starter”, who the hell do you thing we’re going to get? Peavy? Beckett? Sabathia? Santana? Geez, get real. Give Jergens (I know, its a lotion, but I can’t spell it, and can’t pronounce it, for now - hell, took me 4 years to learn to spell and say Obumanu and Aromoshadu, star receivers at Auburn - called em Ben and Devin). Don’t count the kid out yet - go look at the stats of some of today’s star pitchers. Santana and Sabathia have pretty much mowed them down since day one (CC was 17-5 at the age of 20!). On the other hand, Peavy, Brandon Webb, Beckett, etc got bombed until they figured out how to pitch, instead of just throwing hard.

We knew it was likely we would lose Edgar. I’m Ok with him going to the Tigers. Guess we still owe them a big one for stealing Smoltz all those years ago. This is a good trade for Wren’s first, though I suspect that JS was still in the background pulling strings.

By Sir Stealth

October 29, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

Looks like I checked out at just the wrong time right before a bunch of people telling me to get my head out of my a*. I doubt anyone cares, but to respond I still say the Estrada trade was lucky (and I think JS is the greatest GM of all time) based on the fact that JS’s explanation of the trade was that “the economics of baseball sucks” and we had to trade a proven starter who we didn’t really wanna get rid of within our own division.

As for Edgar being one of the best players in baseball last year, I absolutely believe that. He was certainly among the lead leaders in average all year. He was a consistent performer who got clutch hits and hit for decent power from the shortstop position, where, put out stats aside, I felt he performed very well defensively last year. When he was injured, our team started losing a lot. I understand that it can make sense to unload aging veterans and sell high, but it seems to me that time is short for a lot of our pieces and we are really trying to win in 2008. Escobar is a very good replacement but is still a downgrade from Edgar Renteria at this point in time. People always want the new guy, but Edgar Renteria has been one hell of an underappreciated player.

If Jurrjens has a good year in 2008, then the trade will have largely panned out. However, we’re not talking about a can’t miss guy here. This is a good prospect but no sure thing. JoJo Reyes is also a strong prospect and no one here would have advocated trading Edgar for a good low minors CF prospect and JoJo Reyes’s twin. Jurrjens may be better, but I don’t see how he is significantly better at least at this point. That being said, we are due for some breaks as far as people staying healthy and pitching prospects stepping up.

There seem to be conflicting thoughts about whether or not we will make more trades or just stand pat and keep these guys. We could obviously still do both. This could all turn out great but the trade by itself doesn’t make me very happy.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

October 29, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Saw you made brief reference to Bora$$ on ESPN radio today. Not sure if you or others further commented on it. The Exalted One came on Colin Cowherd’s show and tried to claim that all he and ARod did was make the decision, and “some reporter heard about it and ran with the story.” He completely denied the timing of the release, and said it wasn’t due to be made public until after the series was over. The guy has absolutely no credibility, no conscience, and no morals. He has one God - money.

And the bleat goes on……..

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Tennesee Paul

Wait for the 2008 Prospect lists. Jurrjens will be on it and so will Gorkys Hernandez. They both had very solid years. In fact, the Braves should have a lot of their top 10 within that top 100.

Jurrjens will definetly be rated above Pelfrey after this year.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 29, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

Gee N8 Just when I think it’s safe to go back in the water you remind me of what a butt head you are. You cannot tell the difference from fantasy and reality. I was kidding then, now I’m not. Kiss my @ss jerk….

The knucklehead from last night.

By Greg in TN

October 29, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Evening denizens…

The flames are not even licking the top of the stove long enough to get it warm before Wren pulls the trigger and sends Edgar to a reunion with Jim Leyland in Detroit. Boy do I hate seeing him go. I understand the whole idea behind Escobar playing short and about our surplus of middle infielders right now, but I can’t help but being a little concerned about the type of clubhouse guy that’s going to Comerica Park now and losing that leadership and experience.

Gang this should also tell you how expensive the pitching market is these days (either free agent or via trade). Pitching in both the NL and AL is watered down and everyone is looking for good arms.

I like what I’ve seen so far of Jurrjens, good control, three pitches that he has excellent command of, plus we get a speed burner on the basepaths in Myrtle Beach for the time being in Hernandez.

Oh, and random? Hey, that’s just cool with me. You go right ahead and think about the militarism of America while the Anthem is being played. I’ll continue to stand, remove my hat and pay tribute to the veterans and the military that have sacrificed to allow me to do so. Different strokes.

By Josh

October 29, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Just a conspiracy theory thought on Wren’s comments about G.Hernandez: does anyone think Wren could be trying to increase the value of his new prospect by saying teams have already asked about him and the Braves don’t intend to move him? Are GMs seedy like that?

By BossLady

October 29, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

I am not a Boras supporter, I am an American supporter.

When you look at Wall Street, Hollywood, NFL, NBA, Microsoft, get this - Walmart you have to know that money can corner the world.

The sales comes from consumers and they pay big money for their sport.

Boras does not want the owners and franchise to prosper, he wants the players who fill the seats to prosper.

In America, all the major corporations reward the performers and they are cutting from the top.

I did not enjoy the World Series this year as it seams that no competition was involved in the game. As a Rockies supporter I think that they came in just glad to be here. They made it in and gave their fans a series. I would have taken it in Atlanta.

By bo

October 29, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Randy:

Only two A’s regulars (over 100 Games Played) had a higher .OBP than Diaz.

If Moneyball is the bible…think of Billy Beane as a Lutheran….he doesn’t follow every letter of the law.

Base on Balls aren’t the be all end all of that philosophy.

By Stinky

October 29, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

How do you tell if a GM is lying???

By Efrim

October 29, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

Josh

Just a conspiracy theory thought on Wren’s comments about G.Hernandez: does anyone think Wren could be trying to increase the value of his new prospect by saying teams have already asked about him and the Braves don’t intend to move him? Are GMs seedy like that?

Yes.

By BossLady

October 29, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

When they fill the seats and the team loses over and over and over and over and over. That’s when they are lying.

Like JS played AA and AAA ball but charged MLB prices the past two years.

The Braves owes refunds to the fans for 2006 and 2007.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

October 29, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

Boss Lady:

I won’t criticize your supporting BorA$$ as taking advantage of the system. He does, and he does it well, better than anyone in the market. However, I will not change my mind about him. He is a cancer on the game of baseball. He is the poster child for disingenuousness. He is worse than the boldest “spin-meisters”. He is turning our beloved game from a business into a gangbang of the paying public. I don’t mind guys making 10 times more per year than I will make in my lifetime. What bothers me is a guy making 20, 30 or 100 times (at least, that’s what he wants) in a year than any of us here will make in a lifetime. And no, I’m no minimum wage hack. How much is too much? I thought $252 mil for 10 years was too much for one player when ARod signed with the Rangers, and I still think the amount is obscene. He’s a great player, fine. Maybe the greatest of all time, fine. Does that mean he should become a billionaire? I don’t think so, but others will argue about Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Kevin Dell, etc. The difference was they made there money by BUILDING something, that MANY others have made a lot of money off of. The super rich in baseball are few, and have made it at the expense of the masses.

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

Efrim: I hope he is higher than Pelfrey. I’d just like to see Pelfrey sink to the bottom like a stone… if only because he’s a Met.

By Randy

October 29, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

bo - I hear ya. I was actually surprised how high Diaz’s VORP was when I looked it up. A guy that has no regard for the strike zone just didn’t seem to be a Beane guy to me at first mention. But I guess plate discipline is a more important tool for projecting future OBP of prospects, whereas if you can get on in the majors it doesn’t matter how you do it. That said, it was easy to have higher OBP than those A’s this year. A few of them had simply dreadful, career-worst years. Not sure what happened out there this year.

By Tomas

October 29, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

N8,

When I said I was comparing Glavine to Redman, I meant on the type of pitcher he is, a slow throwing lefthander. Another name in slow throwing lefthanders is Jamie Moyer, Jeff Francis, and Chuck James. What I was trying to say is that he is not a dominant pitcher. I don’t like those type of pitchers thats the reason I dont like Glavine. They rely too much on location, and changing speeds, there margin of error is to thin, if you’re not perfect(which is not probable) you’re gonna get hit a long way. Look at Chuck James this year, he got hit hard with the long ball, and let’s face it, if we had an important game you would have not wish for him to be pitching. Or let me put you another example, Cole Hamels, or Jeff Francis. I don’t know about you but I choose Cole Hamels. So I’m not comparing Mark Redman, and Tom Glavine as individuals(i’m not that ignorant) but as type of pitchers, and if you add the factors he had a 4.45ERA, and he is 41. I tell you if they sign Glavine it would be a mistake.

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

Money Ball wasn’t about OBP only. It was about how, at the time, OBP was under valued so Bean built his ship around it. Now the cat is out of the bag and OBP is highly valued and Bean has to find another under valued tool/asset/skill out there. This past season he went in the direction of fielding. I haven’t pulled up the numbers so I don’t know how well his team was in this department but I do know that this is what he said at the beginning of the season.

So it isn’t that Bean doesn’t follow the letter of the Moneyball Bible. He still does and if he can get a high OBP good SLG guy for cheap he takes him. Otherwise he attempts to find the undervalued player on the market. Diaz fits that mold if only because he is still not a starter, is still making very little compared to the rest of the league and produces well.

By Randy

October 29, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

Just up on braves.com: Mahay and Julio have filed for free agency. I would like to see Mahay stick around, but I don’t know how much he will command.

By Dr. Jay

October 29, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

“the Mighty Red Sox, who’ve become the Apple of baseball to the Yankees’ IBM”…

God bless you, DOB…

You nailed it on the head, in terms I can fully appreciate.

I wish I’d written that. Hell, I wish I’d simply thought that.

And, Bosslady…it’s “pastime”, not “past time”… I hate to pick nits, but jeeezus…

By BossLady

October 29, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

The statistics are something that have been built. I see numbers here that I have not seen in 30years.

I am old school, my dad took us to games when we were small children.

If we saw a homerun it was spectacular, a no hitter or 5 or less hits it was superb. Unike a large amount of ladies I know baseball and the feats that are performed today are out of this world.

I love Pete Rose, Greg Maddux, Henry Aaron and Ted Williams. Their records are superb.

MLB players have built an empire that I am glad to have seen in my lifetime. I really wish my dad could have seen A-Rod, Maddux and little Josh Beckett.

If we left our home and stood in 90-105 degree weather, left our families and expected to please 30k to 60k people everyday, day in and day out we would make the same money.

When you look in the stadiums and see all of these thousands of people all the time and you have to perform, I think they more than earn the money.

I have strived to gain and make lots of money. I have worked long hours and travelled the country I have always been indoors with climate controlled temperatures.

You see, I would quit if I had to just stand on first base, much less ran the outfield or pitched in temperatures over 80 degrees. I would not have left my son and husband for a 10 game road trip.

Their jobs are not easy and no way are they convenient.

By BossLady

October 29, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Dr. Jay I wasn’t sure so I chose past time. Please keep me in check because my point is more important than my word choices. As long as you know what I meant.

By Randy

October 29, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

Cool TennesseePaul, didn’t know that Beane focused more on defense this past year. You have any clue how he measured it? I’m not up on the new defensive metrics, I just remember the multitude of problems inherent in quantifying defensive play.

By BossLady

October 29, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

Well, my fellow blog members, I am headed out to Maryland. Looking to eat lots of crab and shrimp.

Hope any and all trades are of your likings.

I see Renteria as just a first of a big change in the Braves organization.

Maybe, they will increase my salary since I am travelling during Halloween.

Chow

By TennesseePaul

October 29, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

Randy: No idea. I’m sure it’s some complicated matrix of calculations. If Payne shows up he’d probably have the skinny on it.

By N8

October 30, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

Thomas

As for your assessment of Glavine…I can’t argue it. He IS a location/change speeds pitcher. Always has been, always will be. Not to mention that as he gets older, he’s not as sharp at his craft as he used to be.

That being said, he CAN still help this team win from April - August (and even September if he’s not overused).

Would I trust him at that age starting a playoff game? Sure. Just not a must win game or a game 1. He would the best 3rd or 4th starter on many teams, even in his old age. He WAS not even close to the ACE that the Mets were asking him to be down the stretch.

He allowed 3 or less runs, while pitching 6 innings (the “book” definition of a quality start), in 24 of his 34 starts. That also includes having 7 quality starts out of his 11 starts from August on.

As of September 14th (right before his “fatal” final 3 starts), he was 13-6 with a 3.88 ERA. Basically, his final 3 starts added another “0.57” to his total ERA. The guy IS in his forties, can’t expect the stamina to hold up, can you?

On the flip side, Chuck James (pitching in OUR 3rd starter role), had only 11 “quality starts” in 30 games started. Chuck finished with an 11-10 record, with a 4.24 ERA (better than Glavines final ERA), but taxed our bullpen MUCH MORE than a 3rd starter should, IMO.

Only 6 times did Chuck record outs in the 7th innings of games. Let me repeat that. ONLY 6 TIMES!! While NEVER recording an out in the 8th inning once last year. Chuck had 11 quality starts out of 30. Glavine pitched more than 6 innings 12 times, recording outs in the 8th inning 3 times.

Was Glavine high on the stamina department? Nope, not really. But he was still better than Chuck was.

Ask our bullpen if they would’ve appreciated the extra 39 innings that Glavine would’ve given them.

Who knows? Maybe you are right, and Glavine’s and Chuck’s numbers will slide closer to eachother’s next year. But I’d put money on Glavine having a better “statistical” year than Chuck, especially while pitching at home near his family.

Gil

Sorry to call you a knucklehead. But if you can’t see that making a comment comparing Manny Ramirez to Lonnie Smith (kidding or not), is “knuckleheadish”, than that sounds like a YOU problem, not a N8 problem. :-)

By choppinmama

October 30, 2007 1:52 AM | Link to this

Whew! I just finished playing catch- up from DOB’s new blog pre-game #4. Lots of news and commentary since then.

A few random observations:

I would be so perturbed at our games at TF during the national anthem when OUR guys would be talking and goofing around during the anthem. Surprising that the guys were never admonished about the disrespect by somebody.

Braveheart: Wren as a “microwave guy”. Best line all week!!

Breaking news: Torre to the Dodgers after they fire Grady Little. Hope putting a continent between Joe and NY works out for him -and his new coach Mattingly.

Really sorry to see Edgar go elsewhere. Has anyone EVER seen him interviewed during his ATL tenure? Not me, not once. Good luck to him, he deserves it. Yunel will be able to handle the job in 2008 without the team missing a defensive beat, no problem as lead off either.

DOB: great Series job of keeping us informed. Unpack, get that laundry done and store those suitcases away for a while - at least until that mid-winter vacation you’ve been promising yourself.

By A-ville Ranger

October 30, 2007 2:01 AM | Link to this

Truth is, all trades come down to luck and judgement.When prospects, especially developing ones are involved, you can double those factors.Was this a good trade ? who the hell knows ??

By choppinmama

October 30, 2007 2:20 AM | Link to this

Looks like we won’t have Woodward to kick around any more either. A few of you will be crying in your beers over that free agency move, (and by a few I mean one or two), but most of my esteemed fellow denizens will be dancing in the streets. Sorry to see Mahay on the way out. Looks like he was just a one-year wonder for us.

DOB: Gotta take issue with you using “unispiring performances” and James Taylor in the same sentence. He still sounds smooth as silk. And as for the balding comment, I’ll be checking under your hat in another 10 years or so! Balding and unispiring don’t necessarily go hand-in-head.

OK, drove up to ATL from FL today, so I’ll call it a night. Little did I know when I drove past the field this afternoon that some major league trading was going on in the inner sanctums.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 30, 2007 3:35 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones , Edgar Renteria , Bob Wickman and Craig Wilson made a combined 31.5 Million in 2007. The Braves have cleared a ton of payroll off the books.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 30, 2007 3:57 AM | Link to this

The rotation depth chart looks like this : 1. Smoltz 2. Hudson 3. James 4. Reyes 5. Jurrjens 6. Bennett 7. Cormier 8. Carlyle , then Hampton and Glavine will have to be eventually included in that mix. Folks , that is crazy. Most MLB teams would kill to have that kind of depth. One has to wonder if someone is going to get traded and for who or what ?

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

October 30, 2007 4:38 AM | Link to this

Well, after seeing the mlb.com clips on JJJ, I feel a LOT better seeing 94-95 in two different radar guns. Then the control seems an even better thing.

I just really HATE soft tossing brave starters(I guess I should not post the day Glavine re-signs! ;))

…it’s funny, we have all kinds of folk like Yates, Soriano, Acosta, Devine, who can hit 95, 96 MPH…but the starters…James, Jo-Jo, Glavine…window panes have nothing to fear from their “hard” stuff.

Speaking of Acosta, should he still be trying to become a starter??? Seems like he is an excellent 7th, or 8th inning guy…and if we have Glavine, we will need many a folk in the BP even if Chucky goes elsewheres.

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

October 30, 2007 4:55 AM | Link to this

I’m just laughing at the thought of any braves fans from out of town who might not check this forum for a few days/weeks(Didn’t see Wayne in Utah last night for an example)

IF they put on EPSN last night, all they could talk about was their Monday night game, and the Patriots-Colts game next week(Anyone hear about this??? Perhaps 2 dozen times already and it’s only Monday/Tuesday Morn? Wow, it’s just like the Rockies playing the Red Sox next year in an Interleague series in June…just as important as this Early November football game is)

Anyway, with the “Big” baseball news being Girardi going the the Yanks, A-Rod opting out of his contract, and Joe Torre and Mattingly going to the Dodgers, a trade between two teams who were not in the playoffs, playing in smaller markets will not be heard by some in the Braves Nation….perhaps it’s just cuz it’s late, but I would dearly love to see someone come back in a week or two talking about what we might get for Edgar, and getting mocked unceasingly! But, there’s never a big trade the day after the Series! Next thing you’ll say is J.S. is no longer the GM!!!! I never did hear mention of the

By [/\][][][]Berigan[][][][/\]

October 30, 2007 5:02 AM | Link to this

Oh, one more thought before bed….

in 2112, when Gorkys is our Cf…I can see the headline written by DOB after he hits a game winning homer off of Josh Beckett at Turner Field, spoiling the Sox’s chance to win their 7th straight WS….

Gorkys’ Park!!!!!

Man, did I ever have to go far for that lame joke! I was going to suggest he could open a bunch of bawdy, seedy bars around town, and call them Gorkys, but I thought better of that.

By Braveheart

October 30, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this

I like what this trade does for the future …. on the field and in trades. BUT I also am not in love with this trade either. N8 often ranted last season about what he perceived as a team caught in no man’s land, caught somewhere between wanting to win immediately and rebuilding …. but not quite really doing either. This trade seems to be another sign of that for me.

If the Braves were going for broke next year in what may very well be the last year that we see great production from CHipper, Cox, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton (if healthy), and even Hudson (getting closer and closer to an older pitcher now at 32 next season), then you would think they would keep Edgar.

Edgar starting at short with Escobar and Lillibridge and Aybar replacing Woodward and Orr as bench players gives this team the best shot at winning a World Series.

It seems the Tigers are the team that is going for broke and looking to win a World Series…… obtaining Renteria as a missing piece.

Trading Renteria but signing Glavine seems rather pointless. I am not convinced at all that Yunel Escobar is going to be a .330 hitter year in and year out. We should not be counting on that …. especially next season.

The words of my father are in my head right now….. The Braves can finish in third place with Edgar, they can finish in third place without Edgar. Very true but signing Glavine to go along with Edgar was supposed to make this a first place team. The Braves were 140-129 when Edgar started the last two seasons. 23-32 when he did not. The impact of Edgar’s loss should not be taken for granted.

The idea of signing Glavine is that at this point of his career he is an innings eater who can give you an ERA in the low to mid 4s. WIth a team that looks to be assured to score 5 runs a game with Edgar as the starting shortstop, this would have enabled the Braves to win about 50 to 60% of Glavine’s starts.

I am not sure at all that next season Escobar gives the Braves the same chance Edgar does of scoring 5 runs a game….. Thus, signing Glavine after yesterday’s trade makes much less sense for me. With less offense to be scored, this trade downgrades Glavine from a third to fourth … you can expect similar results to when Glavine had lesser scoring teams with the Mets.

If you are going to rebuild, then rebuild. If it is World Series or bust, then go for broke. This entails keeping Edgar and signing Glavine.

Trading Renteria but signing Glavine just seems to be more of the same ole, same ole. What can we do to stay marginally competitive while keeping the fan’s attention. It is trading for assured mediocrity with little chance for greatness next season …. perhaps in the future …. but since when do the Atlanta Braves have to start acting like Billy Knight and the Hawks and pretend there is some great undefined 5 year plan for the future ….. when the truly great stars of this team are old.

It’s a good baseball move for the future ….. but it is contrary to the current composition of the team. Cox, Smoltz, Hudson, and Glavine are not gonna be great much beyond next year. Hampton may not be here beyond next year. Tex will not be here beyond next season.

Hearing people talk so proudly of the Braves saving money by trading Renteria makes me sick. Who cares? I thought Liberty Media was opening up the pocketbooks.

Think back to the 1996 and 1999 World Series against the Yankees. People like to blame stupid reasons why they lost. But the Braves lost because of the depth of the Yankees bench and the greatness of the Yankees bullpen and the very lack of a quality bench and pen by the Braves. When the Braves had garbage like Luis Polonia coming off the bench, the Yankees had Chad Curtis, Strawberry, Boggs, Oneill, Martinez, Charlie Hayes, Leyritz, etc. coming off the bench. The attack upon Braves starters and relievers was relentless in those Series. Not an easy out to be found … not even out of the pinch hitters.

Now, the Braves can’t spend with the Yanks to have a bench like the Yankees did in those Series. But with Escobar, Aybar, and Lillibridge on the bench with JOnes/Diaz and whomever backs up at catcher, the BRaves would not have had to spend money to have a great bench.

BUt with this trade I see Wren making the same mistakes Schuerholz and Cox always make ….. overlooking the bench and letting Cox destroy the bench with cronyism. It is imperative as a GM that Wren not enable Cox to make poor personnel decisions with his bench the way Schuerholz routinely did. Don’t make the same mistakes over and over just because your boss used to make those same mistakes.

Just look at last season. With quality bench players like Escobar and Salty, the Braves were 35-39 when Escobar started and 10-11 when Salty started at catcher and like 16-17 when Salty started overall. That is what quality bench players bring to your team. A team that falls 5 games short can not have a repeat of the 7-14 with Woodward starting nor the 4-7 when Prado started nor the 4-8 when Sammons, Pena, and Miller started. Teams are 115-87 the last 3 seasons when Wilson Betemit starts.

A team that is hoping to make it to the postseason where every single at bat is critical can not afford to have wasted at bats from scrubs on the bench. There would have been no wasted at bats with pinch hitters or fill ins like Escobar, Aybar, Lillibridge, Jones or Diaz in the postseason or the regular season.

If the plan is for the future and to make money while saving money, then don’t sign Glavine …. makes little sense now after trading Edgar away.

Perhaps there are more trades to come. I suspect Chuck James will be one that goes. Trading away the 28-20 record the Braves had when Chuck started the last two seasons for who knows what just because Cox is tired of him not going deep enough into games will not be smart either.

This trade does not answer our deficit for a quality third starter nor a leadoff hitter nor a centerfielder nor a bona fide middle of the rotation young pitcher.

But we acquired another JoJo Reyes and that’s just great…… well, not really.

By 3trees

October 30, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Late to the party as usual, but sure hate to see Edgar go. It’ll take time to make any real assessment of the trade, but it sure was great to have him on the home team. The kind of hitter this team needs more of. Thanks for great baseball, Edgar. Good luck in Motown.

Later y’all

By Efrim

October 30, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Braveheart

You make some very interesting points throughout your post. In 96 and 99 the Yankees beat us because of a better back of the bullpen and phenominal bench. You are correct about that. To be honest with you, I like the move. At first, I was scratching my head, but I understand what they are trying to do.

Whether or not people on this blog want to admit it, we gave up A LOT to get Tex. A TON. Now, we still have good prospects. Very good ones. But when people brought up names like Dan Haren, they failed to realize that a package of Jo Jo Reyes, Brandon Jones and Brent Lillibridge just wasn’t going to get it done. We added a prospect in this deal that could be used to pick up that starting pitcher that we desire.

Now even if we keep him, I am still happy about the trade. I am okay with taking the slow and steady approach with this type of team. In the National League, the Braves can get to the World Series with this team plus Glavine, an improved bench, a stopgap CF, and one more reliever out of house.

As far as getting another Jo Jo Reyes, yea, I guess we did. But we now have what we didn’t have last year, #4 starters. We have 3 of them now, and if we sign Glavine to be our #3, then we have a pretty solid rotation.

Lets not think about what we have to do after 2008, because lord knows it is going to be insane. The Braves may very well need 2 starting pitchers, a 1st baseman/cleanup hitter, closer, another reliever, and a manager. Next offseason is going to be interesting. Very intresting.

By DAP

October 30, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

RANDY i was talking about Jurrjens’ major league stats, cause thats all that really matters now. 3-1 isnt bad for a kid who has made 7 starts, but only 30 IP, 11 walks and 13 strike outs, and a 4.70 ERA are bad stats if you ask me. i do think he can help the braves rotation, but its only high hopes that he will be a top-line starter someday.

By Curious

October 30, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

…no man’s land, caught somewhere between wanting to win immediately and rebuilding …. but not quite really doing either. This trade seems to be another sign of that for me.

Could it be that Atlanta is now the cherry tree Detroit and others pick from, just like San Diego used to be our cherry tree? Are we the unwitting farm system for other teams/owners that have made the serious commitment to keep good players AND add new ones?

Granted, it’s a long trade season and many moves could be made to make this one look like a necessary step back in order to take two forward. But then, true competitors don’t settle for, “we can have this or that”. Winners say, “we will do this AND that”. Unless of course they are strapped and have to “settle”. I don’t pretend to have the answers here and won’t spend valuable time rehashing the “fantasy du jour”, but I’ll hope we don’t remain in “no man’s land”. In my thinking, better to have major surgery and start anew than to band-aid this team any longer. That will only erode fan quality and support. Only time will tell whether that (fan goal) fits into the corporate goals and strategy of Liberty. We shall see. Your guess is as good if not better than mine.

By Efrim

October 30, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

People have to understand that we weren’t going to get a top of the rotation type starter for Edgar Renteria. It just wasn’t going to happen. He is an aging SS who was owed 6 million dollars next season. We have a very good replacement for him. I don’t expect Yunel to hit 330 next season. I would be happy with a .290/.340/.420 line from him next year. .760 OPS from a young Shortstop. I’ll take that. Now that is 100 points of OPS that we are losing from our lineup. Couple that with the 24 home runs and 90 rbis that we lose from Andruw, and this is a worse offensive team than it was last year. But that is the reason why we need Frenchy and Heap to pick it up. I understand that they are 24 on opening day next year, but….tough. We need 850 OPS seasons from both of those guys. They both need to step it up.

By Overlord

October 30, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Coach Do you really think having those 10 pitchers means we have depth? As far as i can see we have Smoltz and Tim are the only ones you could think will win more than 15. Glavine didnt end the season on a high note. Hampton has not pitch like in a decade. The rest have tons of things to prove. Of course if they all perform as good as they can braves would be unbeatable. But I guess thats the case of half of the teams in the league. In my opinion, we have lots of potential, but that the braves never ending story…….TALENT + POTENTIAL = FAILURE.

By DAP

October 30, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

bo im with you on an impending trade. the first thing i thought about this trade is that we might not ever see either one of these guys in a braves uni. you never know. wren could be trying to stockpile prospects for a trade with oakland or another similar team. it could happen.

By Efrim

October 30, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Overlord

We’re a better team next year with Glavine. Certain guys are going to have to pick it up.

By Braveheart

October 30, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

People have to understand that we weren’t going to get a top of the rotation type starter for Edgar Renteria. It just wasn’t going to happen. He is an aging SS who was owed 6 million dollars next season.

Efrim That’s why I am saying it did not make much sense trading him if the Braves are truly trying to win it all next season. I think your expectations for Escobar with those OPS stats are very reasonable and realistic. Losing Andruw does hurt this team. Until last season, the Braves routinely ranked at the top in offensive production and defensive production from centerfield. Even last year, Edgar helped offset that. But now Edgar is gone and we are expecting significant dropoffs in production from centerfield and shortstop…. probably the two most critical positions on the field. Also, we are losing maybe the best #2 hitter in the majors and until his pitiful performance last season a cleanup quality hitter.

And you are exactly right Efrim. Losing Andruw and Edgar does put alot more weight on the shoulders of Frenchy and McCann. They will only be 24 next season and it may not be fair to place that much weight upon them. But it is now what we have to expect from them to make up for the loss of offensive production from short and center.

Losing Andruw and Edgar also places more weight upon the starting pitchers. With less runs being scored next year because of the loss of Edgar and Andruw, this team needs even more bona fide starting pitching. Instead, it appears we are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

How is Jurrjens ERA at 21 much different than Davies? He does not appear to be much of an innings eater in the majors either. The names will change next season. Instead of Davies, James, and Buddy, we are looking at who knows what from Jurrjens, JoJo and Hampton. The quality of pitching may be dropping off at the back end while we are losing quality offensive production from two positions where it is hard to find quality offensive production. It is a recipe for a disaster.

By N8

October 30, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

Efrim

While I agree that we are losing something offensively with Edgar being replaced by Escobar, I believe that we are gaining a TON defensively. Everybody has “put up” with AJ’s inconsistancies at the plate for years because he “collects RBI’s” by saving runs with his glove.

Well, Ronnie Milsap could’ve noticed that Escobar is light years ahead of Renteria defensively (at this stage of Renteria’s career). Escobar’s range and arm will allow him to “save runs” with his glove (thus should ALSO be added to his RBI total, right? - just like Andruw).

Not to mention, that Andruw has been literally HORRIBLE at the plate for not just one season, but basically this past year and 2/3 of the previous year. This isn’t a slump folks. IT’S A TREND. And until AJ decides to man up and do something about it, he’s going to hurt any team he signs with more than he’ll help them at the plate. PERIOD.

So while you talk about having to replace AJ’s 24 HR and 90 RBI (actually it was 26 HR and 94 RBI), I say it won’t be that hard. 37 players had more HR and 42 players had more RBI (Including 3 other guys ALREADY ON OUR TEAM - and McCann was only 2 behind him at 92). You put either McCann or Francoeur in that 5 hole (with Tex hitting cleanup), and they each would drive in 120 runs. Especially Francoeur.

Hell! Sammy Sosa had 21 HR and 92 RBI. LOL!

Our offense will be fine. In fact I’ll go on record right now. We will score more runs per game this year WITHOUT Andruw Jones on this roster. Maybe not more HR’s. But RUNS.

Mark it down.

By 22oz

October 30, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

This trade, coupled with a Glavine signing, will solve our needs for starting pitching. What this team needs now is for the existing players to make PERSONAL IMPROVEMENTS. Learning how to bunt would be a great start, a key weakness last year. I would like to see us go for a center fielder with speed and small ball ability, and if that means Schafer, so be it. This team has gotten away from what made it good in the early 90’s. i would also like to see McCann work on his D. Put the above with a decent bench, an already good bullpen that should get Mike Gonzalez back mid season, and maybe even Mike Hapton, and you could have a great season.