Braves

By bravesoul

October 15, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

Dude … Peter Gabriel? I mean … Peter Gabriel? Anyway, so who’s in the mix for centerfield next year? Can’t see countng on Willie Harris as a starter.

By Choppin' at the bit

October 15, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Nice stuff from the AFL. Thanks! We can always look for Braves bits from DOB, even as the post season moves on.

By hk

October 15, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

… BCS computer guys totally inaccurate … here’s graph of today’s, compared to what it looked like end of last year …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/bcs.htm

By Arkansas Hillbilly

October 15, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Excellent read, DOB. I think it was 22 oz. that mentioned something about him suffering a concussion after crashing into a wall recently. Any details about this from anybody?

By chrisklob

October 15, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Klobber’s Knob Creek bar will be open at 5 pm sharp. Don’t be late.

Tonight’s specials include Eastern North Carolina BBQ. served in honor of of the lovely, talented and wonderful Carolina Lady’s return to the blog. We’ll also have cheese served by this blog’s very own cheese master, Mr Journalist Jimmy Smith.

And of course, we have a full bar. You can get anything you want so long as it’s Knob Creek. It’s my speciality.

Oh, SJA will be at the door checking ID’s. A*clowns shouldn’t even bother coming around.

So saddle up and head on out. See y’all soon!

By David O'Brien

October 15, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, just a mild concussion, in Saturday’s game.

By Wayne in Utah

October 15, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

Dave Now you’ve gone and done it! Gotten us all excited about Jordan Sizemore. “Guy could rocket from AFL to great spring to starting in CF next year” kinda talk is gonna be spawned in earnest now. (me included!!)

Thanks for the update!

Any word on JC Holt? Can he play multiple positions in the infield?

By David O'Brien

October 15, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

Bravesoul, who mentioned Willie Harris as the possible starter? Certainly not me.

It’s Oct. 15, the World Series hasn’t even begun, free agency filing period hasn’t begun, trade rumors haven’t begun, and you want to know who’s in the mix for the CF job next year.

Sorry, but I could throw all the usual, oft-mentioned names against the wall and say they all are in the mix, but that would accomplish nothing.

I’ll wait until I actually here something along the lines of, Braves have contacted this guy’s agent or have talked to this team about a possible trade. We’re not at that stage of the game yet.

By Gunslinger

October 15, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

ChrisKlob I don’t think you will need a door-guard. With SJA in attendance, Stinky won’t be in the Carolina’s, much less anywhere around the get-together. And since SG is buying, I’ll have a 4 finger—to start.:>)

By Nelson

October 15, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

I just heard that Arizona will not re-sign Livan Hernandez, if that is true, I believe he is a very good option for that 4th or 5th Starter we need.

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 15, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

DOB… Yes it’s cold here in CO. For Halloween all the kids costumes are 3 layers of clothing and and heavy coat with gloves.

Now to add fuel to the Shafer fire. Schafer named AFL’s Player of the Week Atlanta prospect leads Javelinas to a 4-1 start in 2007.

Jordan Schafer, Peoria Javelinas .412 (7-17), 8 R, 2 2B, 0 3B, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 1 BB, 2 SO, 2 SB, .706 SLG After two lackluster seasons to begin his professional career, Jordan Schafer had a breakout campaign in 2007. In 136 games split between Class A Rome and Class A Advanced Myrtle Beach, the 21-year-old outfielder hit .312 with 86 runs scored, 15 home runs, and 23 stolen bases. Now, amidst the top-flight competition of the Arizona Fall League, he is excelling at an even higher level.

Schafer — the Atlanta Braves’ third-round draft pick in 2005 — has helped propel his Peoria Javelinas to a 4-1 start in the AFL’s West Division. The Florida native is hitting .412 (7-for-17) over four ballgames, and has crossed the plate a league-leading eight times. The highlight of Schafer’s week came on Thursday, when he went 3-for-5 with a home run, three RBIs and three runs scored in a 14-2 win over the Peoria Saguaros. In addition to his league-leading runs total, Schafer ranks second in the circuit in hits (seven) and sixth in total bases (12).

However, Schafer’s week wasn’t all positive. In the sixth inning of Saturday’s game against Scottsdale, he sustained a mild concussion after running into the wall while attempting to field a fly ball hit by Mets’ prospect Mike Nickeas. When he will return to the field is still unknown.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 15, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Many thanks for the update. So does this mean that suggestions from denizens that we sign Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand or some other high-priced, long-term CF could die down? Just a little? Please?

Meantime, is there any idea that Lillibridge might get some work this winter at CF in some league? Or does the club still see him as a super-utility guy?

By Outlaw

October 15, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Save a seat at the saloon for a reformed Outlaw. I’ll be on the 3:10 from Yuma. It’s a return trip. I was bad, but now I’m a changed man…ain’t no saint by any stretch, so keep the whiskey wet and the powder dry. Things may get a bit noisy if some stinky bounty hunter, A*clown or troll wants to make a name for themselves or get after SJA or one of the DOB gang at Klobber’s Knob Creek Saloon. They’ll find themselves pushin’ up daisy’s over on Knob Hill.

Tell cuz William Wallace that I’ll need him to spot me some cash and see if the Klobber can setup a nice, friendly card game. I was gonna buy the gang a few rounds, but I’m running low on funds havin’ to pay for this trainride. No income lately since I got out of the, uh…stagecoach business.

If you see my horse runnin’ ahead of the train, just give him some feed and water and put him up at Ol’ Fly’s stable. Fly knows I’m good for it.

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 15, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss has been a little busy trying to scrape a couple of A$sClowns from off the bottom of his boot…but there’s still room for one more stinky…

Well, you heard the announcement from the Klobber that his tavern is now open as of 5 p.m. All are expected to be present and ready to drink like champions. We gonna get mighty good and drunk tonight and have ourselves a feast and a darn good time. Dare we watch the Falcons together tonight?

Have your fun tonight but don’t forget the business at hand. The townfolk have scraped together enough money to get the Most Honorable Southern off his ranch and now he’s been seen riding in on the outskirts of town. We’re gonna have a shootout at the DOB Corral folks. Don’t leave your guns at home. Bring your guns to town. We ride out first thing in the morn. When that rooster crows, Wyatt O’Brien, The SouthernJackAss, Doc Paladin, Grinch, Arkansas Hillbilly, Salty, Lew, the Klobber, Flyatt Burp, the Savannah Kid, Triggerman Jimmy Smith, the Mayor Bob McBrayer, Radio Ron Roberts, Rodeo Will Wall, and Detonate N8 will become the hounds from hell and release a fury on this no good mangy scoundrel the likes of which have never been seen before. We expect a hanging at high noon manana. His odor will no longer permeate these here parts.

Drink up, gentlemen. Last night, you were denizens. Tonight, you are tough hombres. Tomorrow, you become the hounds from hell.

By Bo

October 15, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

DOB- Heard the White Sox were going after free agent CF and would trade Jerry Owens. Jerry only came up half year but had a great Half with alot of speed. Whats your thinking on Braves making trade for Owens?

By Jay Dub

October 15, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I agree with your prospects for Schafer in 2009 but no sooner. I don’t put a lot of stock in the AFL since last year’s standout was Ben Zobrist (from my hometown of Eureka, Illinois) who was hitting .368, with 17 runs scored and 14 RBI through 15 games.

I like Zob, but he ain’t that good. When put through the looking glass of AFL inflation, Schafer’s numbers aren’t that great.

By keylargo25

October 15, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

http://www.mlb.com/mlb/events/winterleagues/?league=afl

Here’s the AFL homepage to keep up with Braves prospects.

By Wayne in Utah

October 15, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

With Frenchy already established, and Brandon Jones on the verge; and then add in the following: Jordan Schafer, Cody Johnson and Jason Heyward, we really have some decent young OF talent to go with our infield crop.

Maybe Micah Owings can take his brother Jon Mark into the batting cages this winter, and give him some pointers???

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 15, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

have no fear doc paladin. i can certainly spot you some money. as it turns out i got a few more extra dollars than i thought i would have because Detonate N8 turned down my offer to pony express friday night lights to him, thinking it would be too expensive for me to pony on over to him. just go get your a@@ on that 3:10 to yuma. Carolina Lady and Klobber are waiting for ya.

neglected to mention earlier that JoeBrave will be riding out as well with us when that rooster crows in the morn.

By Keith Dismuke

October 15, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I know Schafer has been playing well in AFL, but apparently Keith Law with ESPN has a diiferent take.

“• Jordan Schafer (Braves) was a disappointment, making the common comparison between him and Grady Sizemore look more than a little optimistic. His load at the plate is too deep, and he doesn’t have the raw bat speed to overcome it. He also tried to pull everything to right field both in BP and games. “

What do you make of his observations?

Did he just catch Schafer having a bad game or have you heard this before too?

By Gunslinger

October 15, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

Daddy said always look out for hombres that talk about buying drinks out of one side of their mouth and gettin’ staked in a poker game out of the other. Keep one hand on your wallet and the other on your gun.

By Jared

October 15, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, what are your thoughts on what Keith Law said about Schafer yesterday?

Jordan Schafer (Braves) was a disappointment, making the common comparison between him and Grady Sizemore look more than a little optimistic. His load at the plate is too deep, and he doesn’t have the raw bat speed to overcome it. He also tried to pull everything to right field both in BP and games.

Schafer is still hitting .412 or something like that in the Arizona Fall League though.

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 15, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

DOB’s got me excited about this Schafer kid. I was thinking just put him in center. He can’t do much worse than .222, .311, .413. And if he does, he’s just gonna be hitting 8th and not 4th so it won’t hurt as much. But he is a kid and you don’t want to destroy his confidence.

That Brian Anderson with the White Sox seemed like a really good prospect when the White Sox called him up. But he seemed to fall apart under the weight of the expectations. He was about 4 years older and more accomplished in the minors than Schafer though at the time of his call up. But maybe Anderson’s the kind of guy you look to get back as a throw in if Edgar gets traded to the Chisox and you can try Anderson in center and he can be the solution in 2008 that the White Sox thought he could be in 2006 when they traded Rowand for Thome. Or maybe he falls flat on his face as he seems to have done the past two years. He is supposed to be a phenomenal defensive centerfielder though.

By Kyle

October 15, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

Jared you beat me to it…just about to post the same thing…

• Jordan Schafer (Braves) was a disappointment, making the common comparison between him and Grady Sizemore look more than a little optimistic. His load at the plate is too deep, and he doesn’t have the raw bat speed to overcome it. He also tried to pull everything to right field both in BP and games.

By EL SUPREMO

October 15, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Drink up, gentlemen. Last night, you were denizens. Tonight, you are tough hombres. Tomorrow, you become the hounds from hell.

Last night, tonight, and tomorrow you are a pack of middle-aged losers who act like a bunch of teenage girls.

By Canuckbravesfan

October 15, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

One more starting pitcher to watch in the spring is Francisley Bueno. A 26 year old Cuban lefty, called up to Richmond from Miss. in August, made 3 starts was 1-0 with a 2.79 ERA, then threw a 6 inning no-hitter vs. Durham in IL playoffs (1 BB 6 K’s) was lifted because of 100 pitch limit on Braves minor league pitchers. After that, threw 2 shutout innings vs Sacramento. A question for DOB—why would Braves have 28 year old pitcher Sung Ki Jung playing in the AFL ??? Had awesome numbers at M.Beach and Miss. during reg. season (1.15 ERA and 23 saves.

By Outlaw

October 15, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

look out for hombres that talk about buying drinks out of one side of their mouth and gettin’ staked in a poker game out of the other. Keep one hand on your wallet and the other on your gun.

Oh, and Gunslinger, you loan me a rifle since I got mine lost. That’s right…I need a bath, some grub, got no money, no horse feed, no stable, no card game, no whiskey and no gun. Since you have gun and will travel, meet me at Klobber’s saloon. Why do I want one of your guns you say? Hey, cause you got two and I don’t. That puts me at a distict disadvantage around old retired gunslingers like you. Don’t make me ask twice partner. I might go outlaw again. Don’t wanna go back to Yuma.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

The Daily Buzz (Fly on Wall Report No. 025)

(Fly language translated for your convenience).

The continued saga of the Mr. Fly Origins: Mr. Fly has been poked and prodded by every newsman in town. Feeling lost, scared, discouraged and downright discombobulated, he retreated to a quiet wall away from the maddening crowds, paparazzi and media vultures. We’ll pick up the story here:

After several hours of contemplation, Mr. Fly determined that he would take matters into his own spiny legs. He would select a non-biased interviewer and a documentary filmmaker to appropriately break the amazing Mr. Fly origin story in a dignified manner. After all, the world needs to know the unbiased, uncluttered and well-told truth about a talking fly reporter, right? So, Mr. Fly determined that, although he may be delayed…he would not be denied. Rather than sensationalize this incredible story, he should inform, educate, illuminate (like his Lighting Bug cousins).

The big opportunity was not just introduce a talking fly, but to remove the stigma of flies, stop fly discrimination and end those derogatory “swat” comments. Fly was determined to get HIS message through. We must focus on our similarities and break down barriers (screen doors) between flies and humans. After all, there is a symbiotic relationship. We need each other.

Stay tuned and find out whom Mr. Fly selects as his unbiased interviewer, appearing at a Blog near you.

By EL SUPREMO

October 15, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

Javelinas?

Sounds like a girls softball team. What, are they in third place behind the Thumbelinas and the Trampolinas?

By KC

October 15, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

Keith Dismuke: Personally, I’ll trust what the scouts say more than I’ll trust what Keith Law said after what I’m assuming to be limited exposure to the kid.

Does Keith Law have a baseball background beyond? A pen and an opinion doesn’t make him an expert.

By Overlord

October 15, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

Keylargo, Jared who do you like for tonight game?……..winners.

By Truth be Told

October 15, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Chuck James is really Sinead O’Connor.

Have you ever seen them together? Huh?

By N8

October 15, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

For those of you asking/wanting Leo Mazzone back in Atlanta next year, or wondering what the “odds” of it happening are. Here is a copy and paste ofMark Bowman’s answer to a email question about that subject.

I actually laughed out loud. So I thought I would share, for those who don’t go to that site at all.

“When I read the first few questions that contained this subject, I was planning to attempt to find a more pertinent topic. My incorrect assumption was that after he exited to take the Orioles job two years ago, enough had been written to clearly indicate his departure created no tears within the Braves organization…..But since so many asked about Mazzone’s potential return, I’ll make it simple and say it ain’t happening. Some of you suggested for sentimental reasons it would be great to bring both Mazzone and Tom Glavine back next year…..I’ll just say if the Braves were planning on constructing a reunion team next year, there would be a much greater chance of seeing Charlie Leibrandt back in the rotation than of having Mazzone back on Bobby Cox’s coaching staff.”

That should (but more than likely won’t) put an end to the ridiculous inquiries to DOB and Mark Bowman about the “possibility” of a Leo/Bobby collaboration in the future.

By Outlaw

October 15, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

Last night, tonight, and tomorrow you are a pack of middle-aged losers who act like a bunch of teenage girls.

Just got into town and before I can shake to dust off there’s about to be a dustup. Allright gents, looks like we got our first troll tryin’ to start trouble at the Klobber Saloon in Old DOBtown. Place your bets right here on a game I call Troll Poker.

I’ll wager that, under the poncho moniker of EL SUPREMO is a couple of teenage girls that appear in the neighborhood, named somethin’ like Tanya & Kelly. Sound familiar EL REMO with the bandalero?

Who’ll see that?

By David O'Brien

October 15, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

I don’t really have any thoughts on what Keith Law said about him. Unil I see the kid play myself, I’ll go with the consensus of observations of all the other scouts and players and minor league managers/coaches who’ve seen him, and the fact he hit .312 with a .374 OBP and 76 extra-base hits.

You can take Law’s seemingly contrarian view on that (haven’t found any others with similar views, but whatever), or the panel of folks who rated him the No. 1 prospect in the Carolina League.

By Wayne in Utah

October 15, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

KC Law worked for Toronto Blue Jays. Somewhere in player development, I think. So, I don’t know him from Adam, but I don’t think you can totally dismiss his assessment.

BTW, what are they talking about when they mention his “load at the plate?” Is that where he stands in the box? Which way he leans? Never heard anybody talk about a players “load” before.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 15, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

hmph, jordan schafer - girl name. sounds like a model - not a fearsome centerfielder. jordan schafer should be selling jeans to teens. working on mtv or maybe singing on american idol. not a name for a centerfielder. and what would bobby call jordan schafer? see, this will not work. need somebody named rocky or something for centerfield.

hillbilly is advised to pay particular attention to this naming misadventure. bad job by jordan schafer’s parents. should have named him rocky mantle or something.

and now, why all the fuss about a little cold weather? most beat writers have taken precautionary measures to make certain not to be lonely and cold in boston or in denver or in wherever. surely, dob has made some arrangements.

looking at the newest wurlitzer, carolina lady saw yogi berra. and yogi berra was not in the picture! lew is indeed amazing! stare at the picture for 60 seconds and slowly move back from this portrait and will see moose skowron, too. in fact, entire 1960 yankees team has been worked into one wurlitzer. s-u-b-l-i-m-i-n-a-l-l-y as someone we all know might type. can you find whitey ford?

no cake as yet. still time for u.p.s. though.

By Wayne in Utah

October 15, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

I hear Leibrandt’s stuff is pretty sharp these days!

By keylargo25

October 15, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

Overlord

I am picking Boston and then the Rockies to sweep. Of course I have backed this up with no money of my own. :-)

By Wayne in Utah

October 15, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

With Holliday, Hawpe, Taveras, Spilborgs (sp) and Baker in Colorado, Cory Sullivan might not be tendered a contract this winter???

Good fielder, decent bat, NO power. Could we live with that for a year or so? Or, would Langerhans be a better choice? I can see us giving him an invite to spring training with no promises.

By David O'Brien

October 15, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

N8, other than neither team officials nor the team’s pitchers expressing any desire to have him back, and team officials and the team’s pitchers praising McDowell at every turn, there’s nothing else really standing in the way of a Leo/Braves reunion….

By Butch "Spike" Steele

October 15, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

That’s a pretty pistol. Can I touch it?

By David O'Brien

October 15, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

El Supremo, the name Javelinas isn’t, what, macho enough for you? How ‘bout the El Supremos, then? Yeah, that’s it. Grrrrr. Go get ‘em, El Supremos.

By the way, just FYI:

*The Javelina (Dicotyles tajacu) is also known as a collared peccary, tayaussa, or musk hog. It is the only wild relative of the pig family in the United States. Javelinas are members of the Tayassuidae Family. True pigs are members of the Suidae Family.

This wild pig can be found in the brushy deserts, rocky canyons, and wastelands of the Chihuahuan and Sonoran Deserts with their territory extending from southern and central Arizona to New Mexico and south and central Texas, then spreading south into Mexico. They live in areas near water, brush and cactus, especially around the prickly pear plant. Their dens are made of hollows in the ground.*

Doesn’t sound like it’s related to the “thumbelina,” but I could be wrong.

By N8

October 15, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

KC

You asked:

“Does Keith Law have a baseball background beyond? A pen and an opinion doesn’t make him an expert.”

Not that it makes him right or wrong, his “bio” from his ESPN page.

*”Keith Law joined ESPN.com in June of 2006 as the lead baseball analyst for Scouts, Inc, covering the majors, minors and amateurs. He appears regularly on television on the The Hot List and on ESPNRadio’s All Night with Jason Smith, GameNight, and the John Kincade Show. He also occasionally co-hosts the Mike Felger Show on 890 ESPN in Boston. Before joining ESPN, Law spent 4½ years with the Toronto Blue Jays as a Special Assistant to the General Manager, and was previously a writer for Baseball Prospectus. He graduated from Harvard College and holds an MBA from the Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon.

By Truth be Told

October 15, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

Hell is not a lake of fire.

It is sitting next to Tim McCarver on a cross country flight.

By keylargo25

October 15, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

DOB

You mentioned Livan H. earlier and I can never think of him and not think of Eric Gregg’s strikezone in that playoff game vs. the Marlins.

Did that have anything to do with Gregg not being rehired by MLB?

By Gunslinger

October 15, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

El Supremo sounds like a Taco Bell product or one who is very familiar with putting them together.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

entire 1960 yankees team has been worked into one wurlitzer

Nice catch Jimmy. Now I think see it…I do see it. Stand back, close one eye and aquint with the other one and there’s Bobby Richardson. Clete Boyer…Elston Howard and, wait…who is that looking over Moose’s shoulder? Could that be Joe “hairdryer” Pepitone? Pepitone sounds like toothpaste. Or a little excercise pill. Or a little record player to spin 45’s. So much in one Wurlitzer…

By Rooster Cogburn

October 15, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

I hear y’all are puttin’ together a varmit hunt. Can you use an old one-eyed fat man?

By N8

October 15, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

I hear you DOB

You and I BOTH know that you will have to read and be asked to respond to at least another 100 or so (if not more) questions/complaints about Leo’s abscense and McDowell’s exsistance on this coaching staff.

By EL SUPREMO

October 15, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Captain Horatio Hornblower (1951)

Gregory Peck stars as the title character in this swashbuckling saga of the high seas based on C.S. Forester’s novel. In 1807, Hornblower is given a special assignment by the British Navy: he is to deliver a supply of weapons to El Supremo (Alec Mango), a Latin American rebel leading an uprising against Spain. However, by the time Hornblower arrives, it is discovered that the political winds have shifted, Spain and England are once again allies, and El Supremo is now the enemy of the British forces.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

The Javelina (Dicotyles tajacu) is also known as a collared peccary, tayaussa, or musk hog. It is the only wild relative of the pig family in the United States.

Now denizens, what other blog would you possibly learn this? DOB not only provides baseball, music, art and movies but educational musk hog information. Which is only appropriate…the Notorious DOB MIB Blog is after all a BBQ blog too. (tayaussa Q have a musky flavor?)

By TennesseePaul

October 15, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

The AFL is a hitters league. If he were a pitcher posting perfect games every outing I’d be impressed. Glad to see he isn’t an absolute flop out of the gates though. I’ll be more interested to see how he does next summer back in the minors. No hopes are high yet on this kid. Just glad there is a possible in house option for the future.

By ryan

October 15, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

Did you mean to say Kelly saw Schafer make an amzing catch, or that he saw Grady Sizemore make an amazing catch?

By El Supremo

October 15, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Correction: Gregory Pecker stars as El Supremo.

By Overlord

October 15, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

Keylargo,

I like the Indians better. They are playing just like the rockies. And Jacobs field is no easy place to win.

Rockies I agree, DBacks just hanged their gloves already. They look beaten. On the other side, Rockies look so full of energy and desire, I wouldnt be surprised if they beat the AL champ.

By Thrillhouse44

October 15, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

I went to a bar called Hornblower’s in Cleveland a couple years back. I was in town to catch the Rock N Roll HOF and to see King James run the basketball court. We were at Hornblower’s at 10:00 a.m. drinking Long Islands. It was a great and terrible way to start the day. The point of this post? None. Except that I like that bar.

By Musk Hog

October 15, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

My genus denies any connection with Stinky, Snuffy or El Supremo. Afterall, we are pigs but we have our standards.

By Sugar Bear Blanks

October 15, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

Who is Mark Bowman? And why does he care? Bobby would, I’m sure, call him “Schaffy”

By Braveheart

October 15, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

My wife’s sister is the manager of a video store, so I can pretty much rent stuff for free and keep it as long as I need.

N8 Is she single? Sounds like my ideal match. With a chick like her maybe I would not pointlessly own hundreds of DVDs I will most likely never watch again. That’s why I was offering it to you. Wouldn’t have expected it back either. I’m not an Indian giver.

I don’t rent because I never return ‘em on time and end up paying more for a rental than if I had just bought it myself. So I buy it. I used to keep ‘em but I’m seeing that is pointless now. So now I buy ‘em, watch ‘em once or twice, and trade ‘em or just give ‘em away to family and friends who usually watch ‘em and give it away to their family and friends. That makes it money worth spent to me because then at least a handful of people get enjoyment out of it instead of it just sitting all lonely on my shelf unwatched from here to eternity.

Usually I give them to my brother - but he already has Friday Night Lights. He’s a cop. He and his wife will watch and then he usually brings it down the police station and over the course of the next year or so they all pass it around between each other and every cop who works with my brother gets to watch. This works best with television shows. It’s usually too expensive to buy season after season. So, if ya got a friend who will buy one and you buy the other eventually you get to watch ‘em all pretty cheaply - especially with cops who work such irregular hours they often are unable to regularly watch television shows week after week like the rest of us.

Heck, it’s actually how I got into The Wire and The Shield. Of course those are big with the police officer types. They buy it, watch it and start loaning it out to each other. Eventually, my brother got his hands on it and then let me borrow those shows for a while and I ended up hooked on them.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

I hear Leibrandt’s stuff is pretty sharp these days!

A comeback? Well, they say it takes a baseball playin’ family man a while to regroup after having Twins…

By Rooster Cogburn

October 15, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

OK pilgrims, I ain’t gonna ask but one more time. You want the help of an one-eyed old fat man, or not? Me and the cat are fixin’ to hit the sack. If so, I’ll bring an extra rifle for that outlaw dude. It used to belong to that crooning Texas Ranger.

By Who Am I?

October 15, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this

I am the highest paid pitcher on the Braves.

I have earned nearly $70,000,000 per inning pitched over the last 5 years.

Dob thinks I’m buff.

In feudal Japan I would have fallen on my own sword.

Who am I?

By TennesseePaul

October 15, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Kenny Lofton just put the tribe ahead. Not bad for a 40 year old machine that always produces the same year in year out for the bare minimum of salary. Too bad he isn’t all that great defensively…

By Carolina Lady

October 15, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, there is a great need for used DVDs being sent overseas to US troops. I saw a poster about it at Bank of America very recently.

If you seriously want to send those DVDs on to folks who would TRULY appreciate them, this is the way to go. A phone call to BoA may be all you need to secure the info you’d need.

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 15, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

Not much fun slappin’ stinky around anymore…it’s just too damned easy…kind of like midget tossin’…

By Braves Fan In WNY

October 15, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

I didn’t see Law say that about Schafer, anyone know when he said that? I saw this on 10/4/2007

Keith, what are the Braves going to do for a center fielder? Cheap stop-gap until Jordan Schafer is ready?

Keith Law: That’s what I would do - Schafer looks like the real deal, a potential Sizemore clone, and I wouldn’t go long-term with Hunter or Cameron.

By Hotspur

October 15, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Dude. Peter Gabriel. I mean… Peter Gabriel!

No question marks required. :-)

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 15, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

The strange thing is , Schafer is playing in the Arizona Fall League and as a general rule , most players who excel there make the jump to the big leagues soon after. I’m not trying to read into the Braves plans , but Andruw made the leap after just three seasons in the minors and Jordan Schafer is in the same position. That said , if Schafer is added to the 40 man , you can bet he will get a shot at CF in spring training.

By Brave Indian

October 15, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

I’m not an Indian giver.

I’m not offended, not PC, but I never really knew what that expression meant. Do Indians really want stuff back after they give it? Is there a record of that?

For example, say, you give us a nice little massacre and some blankets and we give you, oh, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for example??? But I’m not bitter, oh no no no. We have a very lovely and sufficient parcel IN A DRY DESSERT DUSTBOWL CALLED HELL, thanks to your generosity. But, that seems like a fair trade, right?

How about some trinkets and beads for THE ENTIRE ISLAND OF MANHATTEN and AN ENTIRE CONTINENT for a piece of property out west. Yea, that’s the ticket, that’s fair. But I’m not bitter. No, not at all. No, that’s perfectly fine. But actually it would be nice to have it back. Does that make me a, what you call “Indian giver”? No, you keep it. We’re fine. No really, we’ll be just fine. Just come see us some time out here. Tes, we have casinos now. In a few more generations, we’ll buy back what we want. Oh, you can keep Manhatten and California. We don’t have any use for those places. Too many people. Have a nice day.

And I will be at the Klobber Saloon tonight too to have some firewater and make wampum. We can smoke the peace pipe. We can scalp trolls and have a big time together.

; )

By Rooster Cogburn

October 15, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Ned Pepper Fill your hand you-son- of-a-beech.

By Steamboat

October 15, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

Braves Fan In WNY, that’s what I was thinking… that Law was the one who started the whole Grady Sizemore comparison. But I could only find references to it, not the actual quote.

Sounds to me like he watched one game in AZ, or somewhere, and didn’t like the way Schafer was swinging the bat. I guess it’s tough when everything you “blog” is memorialized by fans…

TennesseePaul: Not bad for a 40 year old machine that always produces the same year in year out for the bare minimum of salary. Lofton has made more than $60 million playing baseball… but the funny thing is, you’re right!

By Overlord

October 15, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

It is starting to look ugly for the redsox.

I would go ahead and say dont will only win one more game……..and we all know which game it will be.

By Dr.Ruth

October 15, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

“Stinky” can’t even satisfy himself—without tweezers.

By ncscoots

October 15, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Wayne, “load at the plate” refers to the setup at pitch: the weight shift to backside and through to front side, along with hand position at the “cocking” of the bat. What Law is saying is either that Schafer has too much weight transfer to the backside, or is taking his hands back too much on the transfer to the backside, or both. If you load deep, you have to either load early or have mucho bat speed, or at least that’s what I was taught. Law says Schafer doesn’t have the bat speed needed to overcome loading deep.

Now, I’ve only seen Schafer play five games total, and he was struggling offensively at the time. But I don’t remember seeing that as the cause for his struggles. I guess it depends on when and how often Law saw him, or how much film he’s seen.

I also didn’t see him really unleash his arm, so I can’t comment on that (plus-plus is mondo, up there around 70 on the scale). But he can SERIOUSLY go get the ball. That I have seen.

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 15, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

At least I can satisfy someone…unlike you “little” stinky…just ask the ‘little woman’…

By Rooster Cogburn

October 15, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

You mess with me Pepper and a dog goin’ to fall. I’m still a United States Marshall and don’t you forget it.

By Andy

October 15, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

Don’t let these people hate on Peter Gabriel! That song is great in Vanilla Sky. Hey, center field is only part of the issue, we can get a body for a season or two if we need it, starting pitching and what we do with Renteria will drive the offseason!

By joebrave

October 15, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

Aw cmon Ned pecker Ol Rooster just a funin with ya there Boy!!!! Ain’t no Harm in the Marshal……At least I don’t think so but then again…..they didn’ call the old Fat man Dead eye fer nuthin!!!!!!

By Ned Pepper

October 15, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

I mean to kill you in one minute, Rooster. Or see you hanged in Fort Smith at Judge Parker’s convenience. Which’ll it be?

By TennesseePaul

October 15, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Steamboat: Crazy isn’t it? I think it’s right at 60 million, 57 million on some pages. I hadn’t thought about that until you posted it so I went to go see.

In 17 seasons he’s made approximately 57 million dollars. That’s about 3.3 million a year. Every year he hits .300, has a high OBP and a lack luster slugging percentage to go along with some ugly defense.

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 15, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

Damn!…

By joebrave

October 15, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

Lew top of the Evenin to ya ther pardner,Did you get my email..hope all is well with you and the Wurlitzer …PERFECT!!!!!!

I see the blog is Breakin out into a gang War…. So I’ll Name our Team The Ol Cow Pokes…..

Stinky,El Turdo,ned pecker,all you fellers need now is Ol Robot on yer side….

By chrisklob

October 15, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

Listen up people. There ain’t near enough drinkin’ in here tonight. Ain’t ‘nuff baseball talking either. Now quit yer bellyachin’ and get back up to the bar. Savannah Guy said the next round’s on him and I’m pouring doubles!

By Gunsl&nger

October 15, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

After we pretend to be cowboys we can pretend to be pirates! Aargh!

By Greg in TN

October 15, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

Evenin’ Cowboys and Cowgirls…

Tonight seems to have a wild west feel at the ‘ol Braves/MIB blog. So I guess I’ll slide through the saloon doors and mosey up to the bar and sit a spell…

Lew, the Wurlitzer for Skip is a beaut.

I’ve got the opportunity to see Schafer for a couple of games in August folks and I like what I saw in that brief amount of time. Did not get to see him show off the arm, but I feel like he’s got excellent speed and great instincts. One thing I do like is he hits opposite field and will put the ball in play and make the defense work to get him out.

Fox is reporting that the Angels will part ways with Bill Stoneman, who will remain on as a consultant. There seems to be a lot of movement on the GM front this offseason. Much more than I can ever recall and it’ll be interesting to see if Stoneman’s replacement will be a little more eager to pull the trigger on trades than his predecessor.

Speaking of moves, the Reds have a new manager in the stead of former Giants and Cubs manager Dusty Baker. Seems like the Reds are getting a little more serious about wanting to improve their lot in the NL Central. I have some questions about how Dusty runs his clubhouse after having to deal with Sammy Sosa in Chicago and Mr. Asterisk in San Fran.

Folks, the Indians have surprised me with taking a game in Fenway and how they’re handling Dice K to this point at the Jake. No bugs descending from the skies over downtown Cleveland just yet, but nevertheless the boys from Beantown look bugged so far.

Meanwhile the Rockies just win… One away from the fall classic in the land of Elway. DOB, dress warm. I noticed some folks at the game last night wrapped up tighter than Randy was in A Christmas Story.

By Gunsl&nger

October 15, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

So I’ll Name our Team The Ol Cow Pokes…..

I know it’s lonely up on ol’ brokeback but for Pete’s sake stop poking the cows.

By EFS&M, Zurich

October 15, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this

We estimate joebrave to be about 11.5 courics.

By joebrave

October 15, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

Braves baseball,I’d like to know more about J.Shafer…

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

The Daily Buzz (Fly on Wall Report No. 026)

(Fly language translated for your convenience).

The continued saga of the Mr. Fly Origins: Mr. Fly has finally reached a decision on whom to bestow the honor of his interview. Mr. Fly has selected Ken Burns, director and producer of fine documentary films. Among Mr. Burns most notable productions are Mark Twain, Lewis & Clark, The Civil War, Baseball, Jazz and recently The War. Mr. Fly likes all of Mr. Burns work and determined that he would tell the story in a fair, unbiased manner. So the final chapter begins…with the Burns-Fly interview:

Mr. Burns: Greetings Mr. Fly. I know you’ve been quite the talk of the world lately. So relax, we’re going to tell your story in the right way.

Mr. Fly: I feel so much better now.

Mr. Burns: Well, I’d like to let you just talk a bit. So…how ARE you able to talk like, uh…humans?

Mr. Fly: It’s kind of complicated. I won’t bore you with all details but basically, two words tell the story.

Mr. Burns: Yes?

Mr. Fly: Species transmutation.

Mr. Burns: Very interesting. I’ve heard of that. By the way, my production team provided me with some valuable research. They’ve uncovered fascinating material in antique comic book stores and such. We’ve come across another such Human Fly, who was a Marvel comic book character. Evidently there were several characters and movies about this human-fly subject. One version, a super-villain, who was an occasional enemy of Spider-Man. Then another character version appeared…a Fly super-hero.

Mr. Fly: Yes…Me like to read comics too.

Mr. Burns: Then, most of us have seen the Hollywood movie about a scientist working on teleportation. He invented “Telepods”, which were two matter transmission pods that teleports any object through space from one Telepod to the other. Just when he thinks he’s ironed out the last bug in his system, the intervention of a common house fly, like you, turns him into a 6-foot insect.

Mr. Fly: Me like funny movies but that was scary.

Mr. Burns: So Mr. Fly, these are fictional characters, but is your story similar to either of these?

Mr. Fly: Well, yes and no. Me a good fly so me don’t hurt people. Me not a super-hero but me certainly not a villain. Me just like to watch and report on Braves baseball. It’s fun. Me did have a similar experience with the genetic coding and Telepods and science lab. My friend was a friend of a scientist. We were playing around the lab one night and something went horribly wrong. We accidentally went into the transmission booths at the wrong time. Wrong time for friend, right for me I guess. Poor buddy.

Mr. Burns: Where was this lab? Who was your friend and will he verify this story and agree to be interviewed?

Mr. Fly: The laboratory was in Atlanta but is gone now. Interview my friend? Oh my no no. Not possible.

Mr. Burns: Why wouldn’t your friend agree to sit down and just tell his side of the…

Mr. Fly: No no no. Not possible. My friend is not able to talk anymore. Um…it’s similar to the Telepod Fly movie. The mad scientist turned my buddy into a 6-foot fly. Then my friend slowly transformed into a terrifying mutant creature. One day he went all Jeff Goldblum, “Brundlefly” on me and all, regurgitating on food and people and growing ugly back-spines and developed nasty habits. Oh my…

Mr. Burns: I’m so sorry you have to relive this. So whatever happened to the Lab and the mad scientist?

Mr. Fly: The lab was under an abandoned chamber beneath an old steel mill. Now it’s shops and restaurants and movie theatres and apartments and all. Even an Ikea store. They call it Atlantic Station. Last I heard the scientist went away to work for a company called Balco I think. Not sure though.

Mr. Burns: Hmmm. I see. Ok then, back to your friend. Is his name Brundlefly?

Mr. Fly: Oh my no, no. That was the movie character. The locals call my old friend the “Geechee-Fly-Monster”, but me still refer to him as buddy. Me miss him. Last me saw him he was in a swamp near Savannah chasing after, uh…a deer. He’s pretty chipper when he, uh…hunts. There have been sightings, late at night. Oh, my poor, poor friend.

Mr. Burns: Could we go to the swamp to try and find him and talk to him?

Mr. Fly: Oh no no no. He’s not himself. He obsessed. A meeting would have no Robert’s rule of order for sure. He obsessed. Hungry. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Mr. Burns: This is truly incredible. It’s like life imitating art. So, like the movie, you are the fly that got in the Telepod, your genes took over the man and the man turned into a human fly, right?

Mr. Fly: Yes sir. That’s how it happened. sigh…

Mr. Burns: Hmmm…so, if he got your genes, then you got his I assume.

Mr. Fly: Yes sir. Me suppose he is my half-father in a gene-altered, weird scientific transmutation way. Poor Poppy.

Mr. Burns: Truly incredible. You realize there are stories out there about your father being Darth Vader and other strange rumors. Any truth to those?

Mr. Fly: Oh my, no. I’m no Luke-Fly. He dweeby. Me a true skywalker. My genetic-mutated Poppy was real nice, a real standup human.

Mr. Burns: So that the world can now know…are you ready to reveal his name?

Mr. Fly: Oh yes, Mr. Ken, but can we take a little break now? Me so so so hungry.

Mr. Burns: That’s certainly fine Mr. Fly. You’re doing great little fella.

Mr. Burns: CUT. Crew…dim those lights and let’s have some cheeseburgers. That ok with you Mr. Fly?

Mr. Fly: You so nice Mr. Ken. How you know me like cheeseburgers so much?

Mr. Burns: Blog research, little buddy. You and Wicky at the Varsity. You and John Schuerholz flying around in the Braves jet, the restaurants, reading and such. We do our homework Mr. Fly.

Mr. Fly: Mr. Ken, can I call you buddy?

The final episode of the Fly-Man, Mutant Origin interview will resume soon. Stay tuned and discover the shocking identity of the genetic-mutated father of Mr. Fly, sleuth reporter

By Carolina Lady

October 15, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

I can’t figure out where I fit in this wild west show. Half Irish half Indian. Hmmm. I think I’ll take my Diet Coke and go check out the bowling for a while. :-)

By chrisklob

October 15, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Half Irish half Indian. Carolina Lady, I see why you’re not much of a drinker. Bad combination of genes there when alcohol is added!

Let me pour you another diet coke!

By Gunsl&nger

October 15, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Dear s&v&nn&h g&y:

do you realize how tedious you are?

As the Braves have had their Chris Woodward, this blog has its s&v&nn&h g&y.

By Ryan

October 15, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

hey dave, don’t know if you noticed, but you accidentally called the kid sizemore instead of shafer towards the end when you were talking about kelly johnson’s scouting report…

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

The SouthernJackAss and Joebrave in the same saloon on the same damn night. Dangerous territory for trolls tonight. SJA, you might want to wipe that bootscum off before you walk into the saloon. We’re expectin’ Ladies in here tonight. Don’t want any troll droppings stinkin up the place. So belly up to the bar in Klobber’s Creek Saloon boys and let ol’ Savannah buy you gents a drink. Klobber, make’em triples.

Just picked up my outlaw buddy at the train station. Paladin’s supposed to bring a spare rifle over for bud but we haven’t seen hide’ner hair of him. He’s probably upstairs sleepin’ already. No mind…anyway, Outlaw bud needs to make some cash and wants a card game. Where’s that ol’ cowpoke William Wallace.

Anybody in on the Falcons?

By Gunsl&nger

October 15, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

Don’t want any troll droppings stinkin up the place.

You mean like yards and yards of “fly” poo dumped on the blog.

By joebrave

October 15, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

Well lookie here Savannah Guy I like Bourbon Straight up.. Brought my six shooter just in case..

Got my hangman’s noose on the Saddle!!!

By Wayne in Utah

October 15, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Ryan Was that a Freudian slip?

thanks for the explanation scoots!

Go Tribe. It’s hard not to pull for a team of “Indians”.

By joebrave

October 15, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

I got some Jerky and Chaw in the saddle bags Savannah if want help yerself!!! And where in the he11 is SJA,I aint heard from that Rascal in ages,Howdy pardner!!!

By N8

October 15, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Again. I appreciate the offer. Kudos to you for sharing with others. I’ve got MANY seasons of MANY shows on DVD “sitting all lonely on my shelf” more than likely to go “unwatched from here to eternity”.

While I am not trying to offend you, because I would truly have enjoyed them, I agree with Carolina Lady. Send em overseas and make somebody’s day.

I forget who it was, but somebody was on some sports talk channel I was listening to the other day (might have been Nick Lachey), talking about a promo that Wal-Mart has going right now, where you can donate a bunch of old/used sporting goods to be shipped in bulk overseas to the troops. So they can play baseball, football and or soccer in their free time.

Whether you (not you specifically Braveheart- anybody), agree with the war or not. The young men and women that are abroad need all of our support and if playing some “ball” with their buddies makes their time over there a little less “long”, I’m all for it.

BTW Braveheart: My sister-in-law is NOT single. But my wife hates her husband with a passion (damn Vikings fan), so go ahead…..make a move. :-)

By joebrave

October 15, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

Stinky do the world a favor and SHUTTHEHE!!UP!!!!

By Rodeo WIll Wall

October 15, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

sorry about that indian giver comment. ever used a phrase so much in your life that you never give any thought to how offensive it is or what the meaning might be? well, sorry about that. don’t wanna get myself john rockered off the blog.

Klobber Exactly what kind of freaking saloon you running here? This is one crazy freaking place tonight.

For all you latent homosexuals with your homosexual references, have no fear The Lady Chablis will be coming soon for you. The Klobber would have had her up here sooner but he did not realize how many men going through a sexual identity crisis he would encounter up here at the Creek tonight. But now he knows. The more Brokeback jokes you make the more we suspect you just might be the one who would like a little time alone in the V.I.P. room with the Chablis.

By keylargo25

October 15, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Jake Westbrook pitched better than expected tonight but I should have known he had it in him. I saw his father pitch a perfect no hitter in a American Legion game in Athens and later saw Cauthen Westbrook go on to start at forward for UGA. Anyone else remember his Dad?

By Sir Stealth

October 15, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

How many readers of this blog will now wonder why the Braves aren’t starting Jordan Schafer in center to begin 2008? I’d bet at least 2% would want Schafer on the team over Chipper Jones.

DOB, there are few bigger Neil Young fans out there than me, and that includes recent recordings. Unfortunately, from what I’ve been able to listen to off the new album, I can’t share your enthusiasm. Definitely doesn’t sound anything like or approach the quality of anything on the original Chrome Dreams bootleg. Hope your not too disappointed when the album comes out. Thanks as always for the great info.

By Medic

October 15, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Stinky I have handled decomposed bodies that were less offensive than you.

By dirty bird

October 15, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

falcons lookin’ good

By chrisklob

October 15, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

Rodeo, I kinda figgered that Knob Creek on a Monday was a bad idea. Aw, what the heck, lets have one more.

Oh, and Lady Chablis doesn’t work here. He/She works at that place round the corner and down the alley.

By Braveheart

October 15, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

Alright, then, N8, I’m making that move on your sister in law whether she’s married or not. Hey, I’m immoral that way. Carolina Lady does make a great suggestion. I might have to look into it. Nick Lachey makes one too but it’s hard to take advice from Nick Lachey. I actually have a little cousin who got sent over there just a week ago.

By joebrave

October 15, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

I’m bout to belly up to tha bar Savannah,and once again where’s that ol Roughneck SJA…

By GeorgetownKid

October 15, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Is there a slight possibility that this kid will win the starting spot in CF in 2008? Or has that been explicitly ruled out?

By Thrillhouse44

October 15, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Dusty Baker is like baseball’s version of Norv Turner. Big name that is supposed to bring big results, but never does.

This hiring doesn’t scare me. In fact, it gives me hope that the Braves will actually be able to win the season series against the Reds.

By Paula D

October 15, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

hey jawl! I wus jus bakin a sugga cake. I take sum butta. Rub it real good into some heavy cream. Sometimes I put chocklit in it too. Okay, I always put chockit in it. Then I take that big glop and deep fry it. Not too long. Then out of the frya, and into a nice big bowl. Then what, jawl? Yep, lotsa powdered sugga. And then back in the frya! Back out, then some melted chocklit and melted carmel. Sprinkle some sugga and do-dads on it, jawl! Dip with a sugga cookie. Not really a cake, is it?

By A Regular

October 15, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Who is the idiot who is reposting earlier posts (including DOB’s initial post)?

And why aren’t they taken down?

By Wayne in Utah

October 15, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Thanks for slowing down the blog, Dan!

By O Brother Where Art Thou

October 15, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

We’ve been trying to find this Klobber’s Knob Creek all night. Where the heck is it? ain’t this place a geographical oddity? two weeks from everywhere

By A Regular

October 15, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Dusty Baker is no worse than the majority of grunting, dim-witted slobs that “manage” baseball clubs - Bobby Cox included.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 15, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

“Stinky battles not only jjs, SJA and other pants. Stinky battles dob, the ajc, COX News and its IT department.”*

oh, the humanity! stinky is superman! truth, justice, and the american way.

noble stinky.

a crusader!

a little do-gooder.

the little engine that could.

poor, sick, pervert may believe he is battling. in truth stinky is only demonstrating how pathetic stinky really is.

banned once. can number two be far behind?

now, football … can no one block for joey harrington?

and journalist studied lew’s latest wurlitzer some more and found joltin’ joe dimaggio there. truly, this wurlitzer will deliver more bang for the buck than any other.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Gunsl&nger, just curious…do you have any hobbies? Talent? Friends? Love life?

No? Didn’t think so. That’s ok, you just entertain yourself the best way you can.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 15, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

houston, we have meltdown.

By Mapquest

October 15, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

I know where Klobber’s Knob Creek is but you can’t get there from here.

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 15, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Who the hell is the spaz reposting entire portions of the blog over again?

Look at Stinky go. No one has laid a finger on Stinky but he’s all beaten up. Stinky is beating himself up! LOL! Stinky is punching his own lights out! Stinky, you are such a dweeb! Which personality of Stinky will beat the other personality of stinky. I feel like I’m watching Fight Club where Edward Norton beats himself up thinking he is beating up Brad Pitt but not realizing there is no Brad Pitt and that he is only beating himself up. WOW! Stinky is such a sad sack. Have no fear, Stinky. The Lady Chablis is just down the street from what Klobber says. She will sort through all of your sexual identity confusion. SHe promises to be tender to you like your mommy never was.

By chrisklob

October 15, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

jjs, i thought i saw ralph terry there for a minute, but i was wrong.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Joebrave, looks like we got ourselves a damn full moon in DOBtown tonight. What say we tell the Saloon proprietor Klobber to last call the brokeback trolls and Dans. Better yet, Sheriff DOB outa’ come in and run some of these double postin’ weirdos outa’ town.

SJA must be out back whuppin up on one of ‘em. When he gets back his money is no good here. Set’em up Klobber. One more for the road. Where’s Braveheart?

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 15, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

I’m seeing a little Warren Harding and Franklin Roosevelt in that Wurlitzer.

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 15, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Jack Daniels if you please!

By A Regular

October 15, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

do you have any hobbies? Talent? Friends? Love life?

A good question that should be asked of someone who posts unrelenting drivel all day long, someone like…s&v&nn&h g&y.

By David O'Brien

October 15, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Sir Stealth, Chris Willman in Entertainment Weekly gave it a B+ and said that “while it’s not in the top tier of his solo albums … it’s his most enjoyable and well-rounded one” in an eternity….

Something called Glide Magazine online gave it 4-1/2 stars out of five.

That’s all I’ve seen so far.

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 15, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Cuz, why do keep asking where I am? I remove the IAM and the ACE from my names and you lose me?

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Rodeo WW, last call cuz. Lotta wackos and SJA musta ’ gone home to clean those boots. Does anyone expect Falcons to win another game this year?

By Irregular

October 15, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

My, someone’s grumpy tonight. Probably needs some more fiber in his diet.

By Greg in TN

October 15, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

The Tribe gets a gem from Jake at the Jake tonight. Westbrook had the sinker going tonight in a major way and the Indians now have a 2-1 lead and mo resting firmly in their corner.

Rockies are looking to hammer the final nail in the Snake’s coffin at the corner of 20th and Blake Street in Denver tonight.

By Lew

October 15, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

What? No Johnny Blanchard or Luis Arroyo? You’re not looking closely enough. Might find Mickey Mantle and Maris if you look hard enough.

By chrisklob

October 15, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

Rodeo, sorry friend. This is a bourbon bar and Jack ain’t bourbon.

By Dwight Fry

October 15, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Is anyone else following the live chat on espn.com for the Rockies game?

Here’s a question and Rob Neyer’s response.

Manny (Atlanta): What will happen with Leo Mazzone?

ROB NEYER: I think it’s most likely that he takes a year off, but I wouldn’t discount the possibility of him going back to Atlanta, or perhaps joining the new manager — whoever he is — in Kansas City.

By Lanier

October 15, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

ABA. Anyone but Andrew.

By dirty bird

October 15, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

falcons lookin’ good

By Drummerdad

October 15, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Old Yeller saved Travis from the Javelinas in the Disney movie “Old Yeller”. They even mentionned the “prickly pears” in that flick. Fess Parker was in that flick along with Dorothy McGuire. That was before Fess played “Posey” in the “Dirty Dozen”. I just knew that you folks were in great anticipation of my sharing those diamond crusted bits of trivia with you.

By dirty bird

October 15, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

falcons really lookin’ good now

gotta love michael’s team

By uga-brave

October 15, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

i know there are a couple of dawgs on this blog, sad day in the dawg nation ALEC KESSLER will be missed. he exemplified the term student athlete and was even a better person. thoughts and prayers to his family.

By Jumba

October 15, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

Naw, Posey was Clint Walker.

Fess Parker was Dan’l Boone.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Cuz, why do keep asking where I am? I remove the IAM and the ACE from my names and you lose me?

RodeoWW, pardon. I knew where you were…just being neighborly I s’pose. Wasn’t that hard to figure out which hats you were wearing. But I have to ask…

IAM and ACE? Dog food at a hardware store?

By Godot

October 15, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, Rosenthal recently reported that Roy Clark might be leaving because of the recent front office shuffle. Curious, how did the shuffle even affect him? And FWIW, he has a very good track record with recent drafts.

And Keith Law has had only complimentary things to say about Schafer ( He also noted the Sizemore clone comparison ).

By uga-brave

October 15, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

braun or tutolowiski for ROY? boy tuto can sure pick it at short. gotta think he will win it based on his defense.

By Savannah Guy

October 15, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

Looks like the smelly one had his re-post of DOB’s article removed. Thanks DOB, AJC IT. The big eraser rules the night.

Looks like the BoSox have an uphill climb after all, while the Rox are cruisin’.

Covering the Northern/Western WS: there is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing.

By Attila the Choir Director

October 16, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

Dudes,this is the first time I’ve ever contributed to a blog, but I just had to weigh in. You guys are a hoot. As El Quapo said in The Three Amigos, “I like these guys. They’re funny guys. Just kill one of them.” Thanks for keeping it clean and keeping it fun. The eighth deadly sin is to be boring. Y’all ain’t.

By Savannah Guy

October 16, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

Current Score: Rox 2, Snakes 1. 4th inning.

Chipism #1218: “The Diamondback’s can’t afford to fall much farther behind.”

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Wow, Hurdle’s gutsy move to pull his SP and go with a PH paid off in a big, big way.

By N8

October 16, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

Did Bobby slip into a D-Backs uniform in that 4th inning? That is CLASSIC Bobby at it’s best.

You’re down 3-0 in the series, your pitcher is OBVIOUSLY struggling……so leave him out there to get POUNDED!

I don’t care if it’s only the 4th inning. You’re DOWN 3 GAMES TO 0!!! Every inning is do or die.

The D-Backs just died.

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

Attila, welcome dude. We’re just havin’ fun lately. If you behave yourself, you’ll make some friends here. Just don’t kill one of us. Not even “him”. Wouldn’t be cool. Y’all come back now, ya hear?

By TNRON

October 16, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this

UGA-Brave,not only is it a sad day in Dawg nation but to anyone who is a fan of SEC basketball.Kessler was a very good player who exemplified team play.I remember him as a real hustler who maxed out his ability.It certainly is very sad when someone passes so young.My prayers go out to his family,friends,and the many people he touched along the way.

By N8

October 16, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this

Couple a side notes before I go to bed.

1) Gotta feel for the D-Backs (and Eric Byrnes), that 2 run “double” was a bleeder. But he kept fighting em off and finally made one fall in. Pick your Braves PH that would’ve struck out there. And don’t say Diaz. Because IF Bobby would’ve PH in the 4th inning, it surely would NOT have been Diaz. More than likely Woodward.

2) Gotta love the Rockies fans. They’re pumped up. Braves fans haven’t been that loud since the day they woke up to find that Justice had “scolded/challenged” them in the papers that morning.

3) Think people might know who Matt Holliday is after THIS? Hard to do what he did in the HR hitting contest at the all-star break and having his team run off 82 straight victories to end the season, and NOT be noticed and recognized as one of the NL’s very best players.

4) Hard to imagine that the Rockies are on the verge of going 7-0 in the playoffs and the owe MOST of it to their pitching!!

Unreal.

I remember when we played them, Joe or Pete (or one of the Braves announcers) said “if this Rockies team ever gets any pitching…..”

I pretty much laughed, and thought…”yeah. RIGHT!”

Ooops.

By uga-brave

October 16, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

holliday can flat out rake. what shocks me the most about the rockies is how well they play defense, what a great story too bad they will have to wait a week plus to play again. pretty unbelievable considering they dont have a so called ace. 21 out of 22 must have games, baseball history.

By GSU-Lee

October 16, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this

DOB Don’t know if you have talked about this at all or not but what do you make of this Mitchell case? Do you think there will be big names released or not? I heard through word of mouth contrasting stories and was hoping you could shed some light on the situation.

By Overlord

October 16, 2007 1:26 AM | Link to this

Feel sorry for the DBacks?

All i can remember is them beating us like 30 times in the last 2 months of the season…….making it harder for us to get into october.

By daveGT

October 16, 2007 2:39 AM | Link to this

I’m loving how well the Rockies are doing. They’re World Series bound! Since the home team sat out of the playoffs this year(the Braves, of course), I’m rooting for the new National League Champions. It’s hard not to like this bunch.

By dragrace79

October 16, 2007 3:44 AM | Link to this

that tulowitski is the real deal guys. i am sold. its impossible not to get excited about this team. i would imagine it would feel like ‘91 did for these rockies fans. and how about todd helton getting choked up in the post game interview? its impossible to root against them.

By Elmer

October 16, 2007 6:14 AM | Link to this

No to Glavine and no to Livan Hernandez

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 16, 2007 7:18 AM | Link to this

No one touched him. Not one person. He beat himself up and then he hung himself. Imagine that. Look at that pathetic mangy scoundrel hanging from the noose in the middle of town. Makes for a beautiful sight as the sun rises over the horizon with the wind slightly rustling the tumbleweeds about. Have you ever seen such a glorious sight? He hung himself and we didn’t have to lay a finger on him. All we had to do was give him enough rope and have Klobber supply him enough liquor and his inner demons would do the dirty work for us while he was under the influence. What a sad sack two can sam. Klobber was right. Kill him with kindness. The nicest thing you can do to him is to be cruel to him and the cruelest thing you can do to him is to be nice to him. Oh well the hunt is off for this morning. The rooster has crowed and told us to go look at the crows picking away at his hung corpse. The hounds from hell may go back to being just denizens now working on the farm, talking baseball, and taking care of their wives, families, and friends. A couple of us will drag him out to the desert later and bury him next to the corpse of the 2007 Diamondbacks season.

By Rodeo Will Wall

October 16, 2007 7:55 AM | Link to this

I’m betting Sons of Sam Horn never have as much fun as we have.

By Wile E. Coyote

October 16, 2007 7:58 AM | Link to this

It would truly be nice if the Rockies win the W.S. providing 2 straight years of the N.L. winning the big classic and 3 out of the last 4. I must confess the Indians and that city also deserves a chance of winning the big prize. The loyal but arrogant Red Sox fans must be biting their fingernails by now.

By 22oz

October 16, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

For Schafer’s sake, i hope he arrives after Bobby retires. Otherwise, he’ll be in a platoon, no doubt about it.

By Marty

October 16, 2007 8:18 AM | Link to this

A Colorado-Cleveland World Series would be great for baseball. Here we have two teams that have patiently developed some excellent players and used the free-agent market to fill in a few gaps here and there, rather than, say, the Red Sox, with respect to whom it’s a huge deal when one of their minor-leaguers is talented enough to contribute at the major-league level between multi-million-dollar free agents they lured away from other teams.

That, and the Rockies are just plain exciting to watch right now.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Marty, actually what would have been good for baseball is if the Red Sox and Yankees were in the ALCS and the Mets and maybe the Phillies were in the NLCS. That would have netted baseball the most viewers.

And actually, have you noticed how many rookies and/or home-grown players have played key roles for the Red Sox?

By The Grinch

October 16, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

%$#@-ing Falcons! Aaaaagghhh!

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

I remember when we played them, Joe or Pete (or one of the Braves announcers) said “if this Rockies team ever gets any pitching…..”

Thing is the Rockies pitched (and defended) well this season but no one noticed because of Coors Field. Rockies had the seventh-lowest ERA and Runs Allowed total in baseball away from home this season. Their pitching and defense has been great this season.

By Overlord

October 16, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

Maybe all this love and magic we all feel for the rocks will go away very soon as someone will come and tell us that some denver fan said that jeff is gay and that smoltz is bold.

As some of you have already mentioned.

1. This is all good for baseball, at least not all bad for braves fans (baseball fans).

2. I wish the ted looked and sounded half as loud and exciting as rockies building has been recently.

3. You got to love the way the chant goes for “Tulo”, makes me wonder if we will ever here something like that for jeff, brian or yunel. Guess not.

4. This teams (Indians, Redsox, Rockies) are so good, profesional and exciting, there is no way for us not to tune this games and have interest toward it.

5. I have to admit i didnt have the slightest idea how talented this rockies and indians teams were, specially rockies, totally under the radar.

6. Related to above——- That guy tulowitzki is a monster in the making, and the scary apart is that he is still IN THE MAKING. I cant believe he will get better. Range, arm, power, speed, knowledge, exciting….. and more important…….not a chocker.

7. As some have already said……. hope braves players and coaches are watching and more importantly, paying attention.

8. Shame on mets for letting Matsui go, guess they are vomiting.

9. Could rockies manager explain to cox that your team will perform better if you stick to only 1 setup man (8th) and 1 closer???, and you dont keep dancing around your players?.

10. Suddenly it seems braves will have their hands full next year as there is a good chance lots of teams get even better for next year SF, SD, LA, Rockies, AZ, Cubs, Milw, Phillies, Mets, Reds (they dont need to get better to kick our butts).

By Dave

October 16, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

Here will be the Braves priorities for the off-season:

1st Priority - Starting pitching (if this includes Glavine, great! We could do a LOT worse.)

2nd Priority - Starting pitching.

3rd Priority - Starting pitching.

4th Priority - A centerfielder (maybe).

If the Braves do not sign am interim centerfielder to a 2-year contract while we wait for Schafer to mature, Willie Harris IS an option.

However, I believe that Jeff Franceour could also play centerfield ala Dale Murphy. He would not have Andruw’s range, but, then again, who would??

A fifth priority would be some bench depth.

Frank Wren has some work to do this off-season, no doubt about that.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 16, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

Good morning Metropolitan Man, It is always interesting to gain insight to player negotiations and how people think. I always wondered why players did not ask for a percentage of the franchise but then again they know a bad deal when they ask for it.

A-Rod is a great player but not that great. How many World Series has his teams played in? I am glad he did not come through Atlanta. It is going to be tough enough to keep Tex.

Kudos to the Rockies, when things are going your way, every call, every play and every move seems to go your way. A lot of the same people who were calling for Clint Hurdle to be fired two months ago are singing his praises today.

DOB You are definitely not going to need the suntan lotion for the upcoming World Series. Pack the snow shoes and the parka. Denver is beautiful but jeeez it can get cold this time of year. At least you can say high to your sister. By the way, thanks for the updates on Jordan Schafer, personally, I think you should be budgeted to make a scouting trip to Arizona and then in January to the Caribbean just to keep us up to date on the prospects. Hey, maybe even a trip to Cuba….. All in the name of accurate reporting.

Lew Do you have a link to your Skip Carey portrait?

By Rooster Cogburn

October 16, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

Isn’t it funny how when you get “Stinky” on the run, he starts posting under other people’s names. On second thought, it isn’t funny, it’s pathetic. I would also be willing to bet he is the one who re-posted all that crap last night. Stupid is as stupid does.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 16, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

The Grinch Yo bro, I feel your pain, the Redskins finally have a good young quarterback in Jason Campbell and no one wants to catch the ball.

Did you ever buy the 45 long colt or are you still looking?

By BamaBrave

October 16, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

Willie Taveras is perhaps the most underrated leadoff man in baseball.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

Gil, don’t forget the Hawaiian Winter League…

22oz, Andruw played in a platoon his first season, just FYI….

By the way, anyone seen the show Mad Men on the somewhat obscure network AMC?

I’d read a lot about it but hadn’t seen any episodes. Noticed it was on OnDemand last night and checked out an episode. Great show. I’m hooked. Now I’m gonna watch all the rest on there (I think the actual season ended this week on cable)….

GSU-Lee, sorry but don’t know quite what to expect from the Mitchell case. Not privdy to anyone with details, so I know what you know, probably, and nothing more. Wouldn’t surprise me if some big names are released, but I’m not expecting much more than the usual suspects, frankly.

I know, from seeing some guys up close, many who are suspected of using, suspected by other players, media members, etc. Can’t say, of course. Can’t just say, “I think he’s doing ‘roids” without a shred of evidence.

By Braveheart

October 16, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Hey, Gil, here is the link for Lew’s great Skip Wurlitzer:

Lew’s Skip Wurlitzer

By GSU-Lee

October 16, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Hey Grinch, You weren’t expecting them to win were you? They are seriously right back to being the worst team in the NFL. Harrington sucks. Leftwich sucks. D-Hall and Brooking are overrated. No O-Line. No secondary. The team is flat out awful. I gave up on them at week 2.

By Ray

October 16, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

In regards to the Rockies, Not only has their defense been good, how about the All-Time Best Fielding % for a team in MLB history. I know MLB for tv ratings are pulling for the Redsox. The big market and huge ratings that will come out of the NE and the fairy tale of the Rockies. My safe assumption is that MLB does not want a Rockies/Indians WS. I guess I should say Fox doesn’t want it.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

A-Rod is a great player but not that great. How many World Series has his teams played in?

How many World Series did Dale Murphy play in? How many did Ernie Banks play in? Ted Williams played in how many?

It doesn’t seem that a lack of World Series appearances says all that much about a player’s greatness. But maybe you have something that shows some sort of link. I don’t know.

Seems to me that while a team with more talent has a better shot, a team with one very talented player or two and no supporting cast would more likely fail.

Also, there are rules against players owning teams and negotiating future ownership with teams. The whole Rodriguez-Cubs rumors probably came from Boras trying to squeeze as much as he can out of whomever he can.

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 16, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

For Sale:—15 crates filled with multi-colored beaded necklaces intended for use at next Mardi Gras—excellent condition—free shipping—selling due to change in travel plans—will now be visiting the Myrtle Beach, S.C. area…and visiting ol’ friends in “Cackalacky”…

By 22oz

October 16, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Yes, Andruw was platooned, so was Francoeur, briefly. But it is typically the right handed hitters that tend to gain favor and get out from platoons under Bobby Cox. I watched for years as Klesko would be lifted in the 7th as soon as a lefthander warmed up. The only reason LaRoche got his chance was because Brian Jordan went down. Now i will say, Kelly has gotten a better shot than most have, but he was platooned as soon as Yunel showed up. I firmly believe that as long as Bobby Cox is managing, left handed hitters coming up in the organization will struggle in their development because they do not get enough at-bats against LHP.

By JEB

October 16, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

DOB, some good music to check out: a group called “DECEMBERADIO”. Check out songs: “Greed”, “Razor”, “Table”, “Dangerous”, plus several others. GOOD STUFF! Hopefully you’re not bothered by the genre.Great sound, good group!

Andruw platooned in ‘96 & ‘97. Is it possible we could see some platoon combination in the outfield positions with Brandon Jones & Jordan Schafer? Along with Diaz and “a mystery player” that is brought in?? Would definetly save money towards the pitching, and we could strike gold as Rockies have done with the young talent.

By ncscoots

October 16, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Dave (the blogger, not the Notorious One) falls prey to the tunnel-vision that overruns the blog these days: pitching at the expense of all else. Seeing the tree, but not the forest. I know I’m being redundant on this, but the offense will be young, young, young, especially if Edgar is traded. A recipe for inconsistency, unless the baseball gods spread nothing but good karma on the Braves.

Pitching doesn’t win (unless your pitcher hits like Tony Cloninger). Pitching prevents losing. A big difference. Only scoring wins. And without SOME focus on adding a veteran bat of SOME kind (or keeping Edgar)…I fear that would be a mistake.

Especially when ERAs of 4.50 seem to be acceptable to some. You do realize that means scoring 800+ runs a year, right? Right?

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

BamaBrave, underrated? He’s hit .293/.338/.350 while playing his home games in both Houston and Colorado. Who rates him worse than that?

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Ray, you’re obviously right about ratings. My question: Who cares? All the hand-wringing about what MLB or Fox wants for a series because of ratings … we get this talk every time there’s an “unattractive” matchup (in TV’s eyes) in a major sporting event, and so many of us fans and media members act like we actually care what the networks think or what the ratings are. I mean, it’s not like bad ratings are going to keep the event off the air the following year, you know? It’s not going to be cancelled. We’ll get to watch, whether the network makes $1 gazillion or $1.3 gazillion.

I say it’s a welcome change, a breath of fresh air, seeing the Rockies and perhaps the Indians in the Series (and I kind of like hearing networks bemoan the matchups and ratings, since it’s their fault we have to watch games end after midnight anyway).

Give me anything but the tired, same old stories. I’m just glad we didn’t have to hear all the boring A-Rod and other Yankee personality stories past the first round, and as much as I like the Red Sox as a franchise, I gotta say I’m a little sick of hearing about Red Sox Nation and “Manny Being Manny” and especially Dice-K … Lord, am I tired of hearing about that overblown, overhyped import. I was tired of that story by the middle of spring training. Gyro ball, my a….

By Luther

October 16, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

In regards to Keith Law, I have discounted his opinion ever since he held a personal hatred for Jeff Francoeur. I know he wrote a longer article that I couldn’t find, but i found this excerpt from his 2006 blog:

That said, the Braves’ bullpen was their biggest weakness — well, other than Jeff Francoeur — and Baez immediately becomes their best late-game option from the right side.

So I guess if you believe that Jeff Francoeur was the biggest problem with the 2006 Atlanta Braves, then you would have no problem with Keith Law. Personally, I think it is such a ridiculous statement that I refuse to read anything else he writes.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

ncscoots, Escobar can play short if Edgar is traded. He’s ready. If Edgar is traded for a couple of good pitchers, I’m for it.

Chipper’s a veteran bat. As is Teixeira. Besides, I’ll take talent over experience any day. Looking over the list of major league shortstops, I’ll take Escobar over probably 95 percent of the proven veterans.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

DOB, good points. I’m sure the advertisers care much more about who’s playing than anyone. The media does try to blow the story way out of proportion like true baseball fans really care who’s in it. Baseball is obviously as healthy as ever, seems to me.

By Interested Observer

October 16, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

DOB: Am I correct in assuming that Shaffer is most likely headed to Mississsippi next season? Also, what’s the status of Willy Aybar’s wrist injury? Will he be able to play winter ball?

Thank you for all your efforts on this blog.

By ernesto

October 16, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

I just can’t see how the Braves could sign Tex. If we’re an 85 mil team, how are you going to give 20mil a year to one guy? Especially at 1B where, arguably, it’s not that tough to find production. (Don’t give me Thorman blasts, before him we got respectable production out of first.) I know he’s a special player and all, but still, with our payroll, even if it gets up into the low or mid 90’s - you can’t tie up that much money in one guy.

By DAP

October 16, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

N8 my wife hates her husband with a passion im sorry your wife hates you, dude. have you thought about counseling?

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

ernesto, it has been stated here on numerous occasions that Braves payroll is going to be increased next year. No definitive figure has been given but payroll is going to go up.

By keylargo25

October 16, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Ernesto

I was just thinking about Tex and unfortunately his agent. If he thinks AJ is worth $20M for seven years and A Rod $50M for 10, where does he slot Tex? $35 for 10 years? I bet that is close to the asking price.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Luther, well Francouer did post an OBP of .293 in 2006. He alone made 169 innings worth of outs. That’s over a scoreless inning a game that Francoeur alone was responsible for. He had the third-most outs in baseball even though he was out of the top ten in plate appearances. This year he was better, which I’m sure Law would say without any problem. I guess pointing out the truth means he has a personal hatred for Francoeur. Do you even know if they’ve met—Law and Francoeur?

By 22oz

October 16, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

I’m sick of the Red Sox. They have become the Yankees as far as i’m concerned, throwing money at every problem. 51 million to negotiate with a pitcher that is average? i remember after Dice-K’s first start against the Royals, you would thought he was gonna break Cy Young’s win record the way ESPN talked about him. Then you have to deal with all these bandwagon fans at your home ballpark, and then wade past all the Yanks/Sox crap on ESPN and FOX. Go Cleveland!

By Salty

October 16, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

NCScoots Pitching doesn’t win. Pitching prevents losing. Few words never truer! Wish I’d said that…eventually I would have!

Agree on Edgar as well…really hate it if he must go. August proved his value to the team…and lineup…and may be as big a reason we’re not watching the Braves in the playoffs right now.

By David-ATL14

October 16, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

DOB good blog. looking forward to hearing from you tonight at 8PM.

Mad Men and Damages are the two best new shows in 07. Mad Men finale is Thursday. 13 episodes in 07 and has been renewed for 08 DOB.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

I think the media’s obsession with baseball ratings (although taken too far) makes some sense. Obviously the folks who make money are going to be happier if the Yankees and Red Sox are in it because the population is bigger and the population of baseball fans is probably bigger in those places than most other markets.

But it’s kind of silly to make too much of it because of course ratings are going to look less impressive than the past. It’s kind of like comparing Cobb to Mantle—context matters. There are more options with cable and satellite so casual fans probably choose other things more often these days. There is TiVo and all of that so that people can watch what they want, when they want. You don’t have people just flipping (or turning the knob) through seven or eight channels and settling on baseball because there’s nothing else on.

By Kentavo

October 16, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

I saw Schafer here in Myrtle Beach in a late season game when the Pelicans got pounded by the Kinston Indians (those boys can hit!)

Shafer was the only highlight for the Pelicans, making some nice catches and smacking a dinger to right center - not an easy thing to do as Coastal BB&T Field faces directly into the breeze coming off the Atlantic.

By joebrave

October 16, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

From all accounts,the Cubs really want to dump Jacque Jones,I know he had a down year,but maybe a middling releiver could get that done,he would be an adequate CF,until Schaefer,is ready and on the cheap as well,who knows he could rebound withTP giving him tutelage….

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

David-ATL, didn’t know how many episodes. I’ll get to see about eight; I think that’s how many are still up on OnDemand. But I jumped in, i guess, at about episode 4 or so and feel like I know what’s going on, it’s that kind of show, easy to pick up.

Damages — outstanding.

Shaun, agreed. I understand why advertisers care and why it’s a story when ratings are down. I just don’t understand why the average viewer or me should care one iota. The ad rates are paid, the TV contracts get bigger every time they’re renewed. I don’t care if the advertisers make less because ratings are down. I don’t care one bit. Doesn’t matter to me. They’re filthy rich regardless….

Oh, and Francoeur’s OBP was awful in 2006, but he did drive in over 100 runs, hit about 30 homers, and threw out a lot of runners. So he was far from being the Braves’ biggest problem that season.

Law just seems totally off-base on the Schafer comment. All the kid needs to do is cut down strikeouts. Otherwise, his development’s been all Braves could ask for in a short span, and his ceiling is enormous.

By ken sly

October 16, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

DOB,

MAD MEN is something rather special. This past summer TV was great b/t that, DAMAGES, & RESCUE ME (even in a sub-par season it is still better than 90% of all other shows).

New BAND OF HORSES is in fact, great.

By DAP

October 16, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

JEB i agree on DECEMBERADIO. they rock pretty hard. i like that.

By Thrillhouse44

October 16, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Why was it called a Gyro Ball instead of a Hibachi Ball? Or a Wasabi Ball?

By Lew

October 16, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

DOB-You’re sick of the Red Sox Nation? Dude, I live in the middle of it!!!The only reason I have survived here is that they still think the Braves live in Boston-kind of like racial memory or something.

Shaun-I think what person the comment on ARod and World Series appeearances was trying to say was that as good as he is, his teams have never won a WS despite his presence. Seems to be an accurate concept.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

DOB, agree. Francoeur probably wasn’t the worst problem. Why not play a guy with a terrible OBP if you already have offense to spare and his defense isn’t hurting. Although, I think you know my argument about RBI by now; they are too context dependent to make a definitive judgment about a player’s value based on them.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Lew, he did say Rodriguez was great but not that great. I just don’t see the connection between his ability and World Series appearances, unless maybe you want to argue his salary helped, but that’s the teams’ fault as much as his.

By DAP

October 16, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

how much is jaque jones getting paid? i thought he was signed to a pretty decent contract, but if hes not to much money, i think he would be a great peice for us in CF. hes got potential to hit alot of homers and drive in alot of runs.

as far as our bech next year, i i think some attention should be paid to it. i would like to the braves to sign morgan ensberg to pinch hit and play 1st and 3rd if need be. put him with willy aybar, brent lillibridge and brayan pena, and we have a great looking bench.

woodward, orr, and thorman should have no place on this team.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

I think the Dice-K obsession says something about the desire to see that perfect baseball player. If there is a relative unknown that has had legendary success somewhere else, seems the media is going to create this hype. Remember Toe Nash?

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Jacque Jones will make $5m next year, the last year of his current contract. He’s also still being paid some bonus money over the course of the three years of his contract so if the Braves have to pick that up you’d need to add that into the equation.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Ken, good to hear about the new Band of Horses CD. I was listening to the older one this weekend; what a great, underrated CD from a fine South Carolina band.

If anyone’s bought the new REM live album that came out just today, give us a review (Grinch, stay out of this)….

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun, whatever became of Nash? I was surprised that he was never picked up by an Indy team to prove himself. Or did he go to prison?

By Lew

October 16, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I think the point that was trying to be made was that despite his presence and the money spent, it has not resulted in a World Series win, hence was not worth the money. Not real sure I disagree.

Now it looks like Boras is going to ask for as much as $50 million per year. Not only is this a patently absurd amount of money ($25 mil, too, for that matter) to spend when it certainly won’t guarantee a trip to baseball’s Olympus, but I hate to think of the salary trend it will instigate.

I don’t think that anyone is saying that ARod is not an elite player (actually I don’t see how anyone could claim that), but that as far as being equitable, for all the salary afforded him, he is lacking (see his post season performances). I think what he was trying to say was that he’s not good enough to demand THAT type of $$$$$-not that he was not that good as a player.

Shaun-Dude-You have to learn to look beyond intrinsic meaning on words and look for a concept. You severely limit yourself, which is what most of us have tried (unsuccessfully) for more than two years, to make you realize. To look only at surface meanings and bare stats is to negate much of life’s subtlety-something I know for a fact that many denizens appreciate and incorporate into their statements. Many here speak in allegorical and metaphoric terms on a regular basis. Pythagoras never took subtlety into account. He missed much of life’s nuance. So do you.

By fan-tastic

October 16, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Denver and Cleveland(or Boston), great places to play baseball in late October and November. Like playing football in Dubai.

By DAP

October 16, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

looks like jacque jones made almost 6mil last season…he should get about that much next season as well, it will be the last year of a 3 year 16mil contract. if the braves can get him for a couple of relief pitchers i think that would be a great trade. maybe the cubs will take thorman and orr off of our hands too.

By Braveheart

October 16, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Frenchy made 30 less outs this year and only scored one more run and drove in 2 more runs.

He got on base 34 more times and only scored 1 more run.

He had 292 total bases last year. 285 this year. But he had 103 RBIs last year and 105 RBIs this year. With 7 less total bases this year, you would have expected about 2 less RBIs. With 4 more sac flies this year, you would have expected 4 more RBIs this year than last. Take the 2 away from the 4 and you see how he had 2 more RBIs this year than last.

When you add up his total bases+ walks+ hbps+ stolenbases less caught stealings this year you get 335. Last year he had 318. That’s a difference of 17 or so. You would have only expected him to score about 4 more runs this season than last season.

Even if he walked 100 more times that season thereby making 100 less outs, all you could reasonably expect out of that was between 22 to 26 runs scored and almost 0 RBIs. That would have given him 97 runs scored and about 89 RBIs for the season. The Runs+Rbis would have been 186 instead. He had 84 runs scored and 103 RBIs. The runs+RBIs were actually 187 while not taking those 100 walks and not making 100 less outs.

Do it this way: Take the first 586 plate appearances and assume the same rates. .260, .293, .449.

Assume he either walks the next 100 plate appearances or he hacks away like he did over the next 100 plate appearances.

First 586 plate appearances: 20 walks, 72 runs scored, 88 RBIs, 249 total bases.

Last 100 plate appearances: 100 walks, 26 runs scored, 0 RBIs, 0 total bases.

Last 100 plate appearances: 3 walks, 43 total bases, 15 RBIs, 12 runs scored.

Total under model 1: .260 AVG, .397 OBP, .449 SLG at end of the year with 120 walks, 249 total bases, 98 runs scored, 88 RBIs.

Total under model 2: .260 avg, .293 OBP, .449 SLG at the end of the year with 23 walks, 292 total bases, 84 runs scored, 103 RBIs.

Even if Frenchy had made 100 less outs by walking 100 more times, he would have actually ended up with 186 runs/rbis as a sixth place hitter as compared to the 187 he ended up with by hacking away.

So, he basically did not hurt his team much at all by not making 100 less outs that year by not walking 100 more times.

He was a sixth place hitter. The value of OBP for a sixth place hitter is not that much. Oftentimes, the sixth place hitter is the last line of defense in the offense in driving a runner in. Often, you are better off with that guy hacking away and accumulating more total bases at the expense of more outs and less times on base. The average NL 6 hitter only scores pretty much on 22-25% of their total bases+walks+hbps+stolen basesless caught stealings. But the average NL 6 hitter typically drives in 30-33% of the total bases he accumulates. Who’s gonna drive him in if he gets on? The 7,8,9 spots? Not often enough.

Would you have liked Frenchy to get on base more and make less outs? Of course. But as a sixth place hitter in 2006, he pretty much did his job.

By Jared

October 16, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Jordan Schaffer was driven off the field in a golf cart after crashing into a wall during the Peoria Javelinas’ 8-5 win against Scottsdale Saturday.

Schaffer’s immediate status was not known, an announcement was expected Monday afternoon as to the extent of his injuries and hs future in the AFL.

Schaffer, a 2005 third-round draft pick, who ranked as the # 1 prospect in the Class A Carolina League this year, was batting .412/.444/.706 in 17 at bats for the Javelinas. He is currently leading the league in runs scored.

Source; posted to Baseball America by Chris Kline.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

chrisklob, just a quick Google search reveals he was in a prison as of last April.

Oh, and he hit .240/.316/.450 in 190 plate appearances as a 19-year-old at rookie ball in 2001. I know he was young and that’s a small sample but you’d think if he really was the next Babe Ruth he’d have done a little better than that in rookie ball.

By Braveheart

October 16, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Well, messed up on that last post. Those 100 extra walks in the last 100 plate appearances would have only been a difference of 71 outs and not 100 since his OBP was 29 and you would have assumed he get on base 100 times over the last 100 plate appearances if he was not walking 100 straight times.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Lew, just going by what was said: “A-Rod is a great player but not that great. How many World Series has his teams played in?”

I take that to mean the person who typed this thinks we can tell how great a player is by how many World Series his teams have played in, which I very much disagree with. Seems to me the meaning of the statement is pretty straight forward. Not sure what that has to do with stats or subtlety or me limiting myself.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 16, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Shaun Please don’t misconstrue my comments on A-Rod, the point I was trying to make was all that money does not guarantee a spot in the fall classic. Far too often clubs strap themselves with high dollar contracts and soon find they are unable to compete because they only have that one star. Dale Murphy was a good example.

I do not fault the players for asking for the sky, it is up to the owners to say no. I negotiated a lot of contracts with management during my tenure with the union, I did not expect to get everything I wanted but honestly, all they had to do was say no. If I did not like the terms of the contract I could go elsewhere. It was up to the company to determine if I was worth the price and I was free to leave.

I stopped liking the Red Sox when they canned Grady Little. Aside from that, it’s good for teams like the Rockies to have their time. The Indians have always developed position players who could hit. It would be refreshing to have some new teams in the Series this year.

By flbravesgirl

October 16, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

I see you boys have recovered from your rowdy night at the saloon. I poked my head in the swinging doors but that was no place for a lady.

jimmy, I overnighted the cake. It hasn’t arrived? You know, I noticed the UPS guy smelling the box as he walked away with it. Hmmm…

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, the issue in question wasn’t this season. Francoeur made great strides this season. Question is in 2006 would the Braves been better off with someone else in rightfield? I’d say at least offensively they would have, no doubt. When you say what a player does, I think you have to ask, compared to whom and in what context.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville, I apologize for the misunderstanding. It’s just you said A-Rod is great but not that great then followed it by asking how many World Series his teams have played in. I just interpreted to mean we can’t call A-Rod the best player in the game because he’s never played in the World Series.

By dack jerrick

October 16, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

The Braves have position players out the wazoo folks. We need starting pitching, then some starting pitching, followed by some starting pitching.

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun, thanks for looking Nash up. While his numbers are not impressive, you have to consider the situation he was in. Young kid, from the backwaters of Louisiana, away from home and all he was familiar with and put him into a situation where he had a lot of structure during part of his day (his on-field activities) and very little structure during the other part of his day (off-field activities). Lots of kids struggle in baseball, college, life, etc. when they are away from home the first time.

Either way, it’s a shame he did what he did.

By Hotspur

October 16, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, the “Mad Men” finale is this Thursday. It is indeed an excellent show, created by a “Sopranos” writer and showing a similar bent for focusing on character over plot.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 16, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Royal: Where’s my havalina?

i went to the screening of the REM Live dvd last night at the athens cine. it’s solid, and i enjoyed the songs off of “around the sun” more than i thought i would. something that kinda bugged me was when michael sings higher. he does it from time to time in the dvd, for example in “so fast so numb” when he sings, “you’re coming onto something so fast so numb that you can’t even FEEE-UUUL!!!” other than that, it might’ve been cool to have some interviews or something throughout the movie (a la “the last waltz”), but i guess you don’t have to have that in a “concert film.”

but that’s not really a review of the cd — being in a theatre and watching the entire movie in one sitting is different than having the cd playing in the car or background or something. if the music on the cd is the same as the music on the dvd, then it would be pretty good cd — some good live versions of great songs. (that said, you can really hear a difference between the band’s “live sound” compared to their earlier live stuff. i never saw them in the ’80s, but hearing, among other recordings, the live version of “We Walk” on the “I Feel Fine” cd sounds different than this cd. specifically, the earlier stuff sounds like a more youthful/energized band…but that’s sort of a no-brainer.)

By beachcomber

October 16, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Put me down for the Indians in the World Series and with rings to boot.

Other than the Cubs, no one deserves it more. Consider their last three WS.

In ‘95, the Braves were admittedly the better team although Lofton single handedly tried to win it.

In ‘97, take away Jose Mesa (and maybe Eric Gregg) and they win it.

And in ‘54 (I’m probably one of the few on the blog born then) they caught the Giants at the wrong time as the Tribe was clearly the superior team with a pitching staff that was rivaled only by the Braves in the ‘90’s.

The ‘54 series was one of the two biggest WS upsets in my lifetime - the other being the ‘60 Pirates.

The Indians have it coming this year. Go Tribe!

By JEB

October 16, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

DOB Heading to Colorado: Get some NIKE “Underarmour” great under garments! Keeps out the chill and you do not have to bundle up so much! Sports players wear it - it really works!

By Drummerdad

October 16, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Jumba, I hate it when I’m wrong on such things. But you are right. Clint Walker did play Posey. He also had a western show of his own called Cheyenne. Thanks for correcting the little gray cells.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Brandon Jones was 3-for-20 with six strikeouts to start the season in the Mexican winter league. Thorman was doing only slightly better.

Still waiting for word on whether Schafer’s going to miss much time in Arizona. Even though diagnosed as a mild concussion, possible he could be held out longer for precautionary reasons.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Hotspur, thanks to OnDemand I’ll be watching Mad Men for the next month, I’m sure, with my personal season finale sometime in mid-November. I’ve got about 8 episodes to watch….

Daybed, thanks for the review. I’ll buy that….

Jeb, Nike and Under Armour are two separate and competing companies. Both make that tight under garment hi-tech stuff, as do about 100 other companies.

You’re right — it works. I’ve used it snowboarding.

Fortunately, press boxes are closed in freezing weather. And heated. Unless it’s St. Louis in the 2006 World Series, and they don’t have anythin more than pull-down plastic tarps disguised as windows (problem since fixed in St. Louis)

By ncscoots

October 16, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Kentavo, I knew we had someone on the blog for “eyes” down at MB, but I couldn’t remember who it was. You saw Diory Hernandez down there, correct? 2006? Give the blog your thoughts on that guy.

And who do we have on the blog that’s down near Pearl? Anybody?

By TennesseePaul

October 16, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

A-Rod is amazing. One of the side affects of all that Cameron Criterion Debate was I started looking at other numbers to remind me what good is. I knew A-Rod was good, but I had never really looked at all his numbers. In short, A-Rod has a career line of .306/.389/.578/148 (AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS+).

Pujols, on the other hand, has the following: (.332/.420/.620/169). A-Rod had the better season, but Pujols is building the better career. For all intents and purposes, he is on pace to have as perfect a career as one can have.

I’d be happy with either one though.

By Ryan

October 16, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

I know Schafer suffered a concusion running into the wall but does anyone know if he caught the ball?

By Lew

October 16, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Don’t you see (well, apparently not), that’s what your problem is-you can’t see beyond the surface. I immediately saw what he was attempting to say, while you looked at a couple of word phrase and took a limited, surface meaning from it. Life is not literal Shaun, no matter how much you would love for it to be. People use words that are imbued with more than a surface meaning-they do it constantly. It’s very much like a several day running dialog we had last year about intangibles. You just aren’t real good with that concept. You think in absolutes and fail to realize that a word may have different connotations and meaning underneath the surface. You deal in black and white and absolutes and variables throw you for a loop.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Just talked to Braves farm director Kurt Kemp, and he said Schafer took BP Monday and is in the lineup today.

By Lew

October 16, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad-Where you been Dude? It’s been a while. Cheyenne-Man you are showing your age on that one. I remember that show from when I was a kid-and I’m almost an old man. Great show, though.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Ryan, no he didn’t catch it. Went for a double.

I updated the original blog just now, by the way. Added a quote from Kemp.

By ncscoots

October 16, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Ryan, no, the ball went for a double, if I remember correctly.

Meanwhile, Blanco starts off 6-for-15 in Venezuela, with 4 walks; Loadenthal has some of that early .200 stink on him; and NDOB spoke earlier of Jones and Thorman.

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

October 16, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Don’t think this was posted before, interesting, brief article on JS talking about Boras(from ESPN radio show)

http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/16/quote-30-m-per-year-is-idiotic/

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, one thing to consider is Rodriguez was a shortstop for a big chunk of his career and not many shortstops or third basemen hit like he has. So while Pujols’s line is better, Rodriguez may have more value when all is said and done because of the scarcity of awesome hitters at third and short.

Lew, thanks for giving me my flaws. I’ll write them down and go see a therapist about them right away.

I think my problem is I don’t like to speculate.

By shawhem

October 16, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Check his stats, Schafer can’t hit lefties. Sounds like a great platoon candidate for Bobby in 2009. Maybe we can get Langerhans back…

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, any chance Shafer is the regular centerfielder by the end of the 2008 season? Any chance the Braves come up with a player named Letterman?

By Bryan

October 16, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Dave, got any thoughts on the new R.E.M. live CD … i was bummed to see it had a lot of Around the Sun but after an initial listen i think its great… the live R.E.M. sound puts some life into those awful songs … which makes me yearn (yearn?) for bill berry and the influence he brought into the recording studio …

Go get it… some good stuff… and bite the bullet on the Radiohead… well worth the “what ever you want to pay” for it …

By DAP

October 16, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

shaun, and others, a stat, like language itself, is arbitrary. we assign meaning to these things ourselves, and since no has identical life experience or identical personality to view them from, the assigned meanings can vary literally from person to person. anytime we assume our intended message has been received and perceived the way we perceive it, we speculate.

the way shaun looks at stats and then feeds them to people on this blog may be intended to accomplish “x” , but shaun assuming his stats and arguments cannot be perceived any way other than the way HE perceives it is very speculative. that goes for everyone.

whats the point? communication is not easy. lets try to be understanding with one another.

By Lew

October 16, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Shaun-No one has said you have emotional difficulties or need extensive therapy (though there are some others in the neighborhood who probably do). No one has said you are of low intelligence. No one has said you are a bad person. No one says you run around on your new bride. No one has ever said you beat your pets or abuse them in any way. No one has accused you of a crime or any perversion. All I have ever said (and I’ve been saying it for more than two years, is that you limit yourself. It’s fine to have limitations, Shaun. I have them. We all have them. It’s not a fatal flaw to have limitations.

You’re absolutley correct. Your problem IS that you don’t like to speculate. You don’t give credence (or Creedence) to intangibles. You are rigid in your thought process and you think everyone should look at life in general and baseball in particular the same way that you do. You make no allowance for any other point of view-in fact you have, on numerous occasions, acted like anyone who can’t see just the surface like you do is living in another dimension-that their own vision of situations are faulty. What you fail to realize is that there are many more in the world who DO live in this dimension that those who live in yours. I guarantee you that more people here (and anywhere you chose to look) who understand subtlety. They understand that intangibles exist. They understand that there are other ways to view situations than just to look at the surface of these situations or look just at the intrinsic meanings of words.

This is not a condemnation of you, nor is it a claim that your way of looking at things has no value on it’s own. All I’ve ever tried to do in relation to my conversations with you is to show you that there are numerous other ways of viewing life and situations-other than the limited manner in which you view them. Doesn’t mean you’re a jerk. Doesn’t mean you’re a bad person or an unpleasant guy. It just means exactly what I’ve said-You do yourself (and others) a disservice by refusing to acknowledge any other way of looking at these situations than the one you subscribe to. If you think this requires therapy, then by all means, go find a shrink. It was not, however, what I was implying. You see, we have different interpretations. Happens all the time.

By Steamboat

October 16, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Just wondering… does anyone think KJ might eventually take over 3B when Chipper retires (or gets hurt)? We’re really thin at 3B in the system, it seems. Aybar is an unknown quantity, and even if he’s “right” I’m not sure he’s a legit starter at 3rd. (I know I have this bad habit of moving KJ all over the field… sorry, KJ).

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Lew, can we post about baseball now?

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Shawhem, you’re apparently talking about a different Jordan Schafer. We’re talking about the Braves prospect.

He’s a left-handed hitter who, this season at Myrtle Beach, hit .305 with a .376 OBP vs. lefties, compared to .291 with a .348 OBP vs. righties.

Not sure about the Jordan Schafer you’re talking about, who “can’t hit lefties.” Or maybe you base that on nine at-bats in the Arizona League vs. lefties?

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Steamboat, maybe I’m naive but I don’t think Chipper is all that close to retirement. I figure he has at least two or three really good years and maybe a couple more decent ones left in him. A lot could happen between now and then.

By TennesseePaul

October 16, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

while Pujols’s line is better, Rodriguez may have more value

Purposterous! Pujols OBP is higher than A-Rods. That is to say, A-Rod creates more outs than Pujols. How can some one who creates more outs be more valuable? Not creating outs, out-avoidance-ability is the single most important part of baseball. A hitter is to go up to the plate with the mindset of “don’t make an out”. That’s the goal. Just don’t make an out. Reading about great hitters one learns that the one thing going through the mind of a great hitter when the hitter is in the box waiting for the pitch, over and over and over the hitter repeats “Don’t make an out. Don’t make an out. Please Lord I don’t want to make an out.” Yet A-Rod made more outs than Pujols. Regardless of position played each hits in pretty much the same spot in the order, minus a few post season games and managerial fall outs. 6 other players in the majors avoided more outs than Rodriguez. 3 more in each league had better out avoiding skills than Rodriguez did this season.

More value. Puhlease.

By Lew

October 16, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Shaun-If you’d like. I’ve never told you what to post or how to think. Just offered suggestions for other points of view. Just one more thing, though. I know you’re a newlywed. I’ve even offered congratulations. However, if you think you’re going to make it through many years of marriage without having an alternative viewpoint, alien to your own experience thrown into your path, well Dude, are you in for a very large rude awakening. I still think getting Cameron is a big mistake.

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 16, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Someone stated before that Schafer “can’t Hit lefties”. I only found stats for the fall league showing he hit .111 against lefties in 9 ABs. what are his carrer numbers vs lefties? Good bad or just OK?

By DAP

October 16, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

steamboat i think that if we need a 3B in the near future (it would take chipper getting hurt bad enough that had to retire) then escobar will likely get the job. otherwise, we have another 3 years at least of chipper at third. i think we have some guys in the minor that will definetly be ready by then (if they ever are ready)

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 16, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Remove last question…Not qucik enough… DOB beats me to the draw.

By flange1

October 16, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Hey Shaun,

Loved the Letterman joke!

By Steamboat

October 16, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun, no argument with that. If Chipper remains healthy, he’s good for a few years. My concern is just if he doesn’t. A “utility” type is fine for 2 weeks, but not really for 3 months. Anyway, I had just been reading about the problems with Eric Campbell’s attitude, and Van Pope’s bat, and thinking about the future at 3B.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, I think position must come in to play because certain positions hit better than others. It’s easier to find first basemen who can hit than it is to find shortstops or third basemen. Not saying Pujols won’t wind up being the better or more valuable player but he probably has to do more to look more impressive than someone like Rodriguez.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’ll try to keep my viewpoints out of it. I’ll try to just reveal what the numbers say and let everyone take from that what they will. That’s my attempted approach, though it seems to have failed more often than not.

By TennesseePaul

October 16, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

If Aybar is clean and sober, and it wasn’t the toxins granting him the skills, he will be more than adequet as a back up infielder. I watched this kid play for the Dodgers. He’s pretty good. Great with the bat, solid on defense. He won’t bring to the plate what Chipper does but no switch hitter in history ever has anyway.

By Lester

October 16, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

A drunk Aybar is better than Orr or Woodward.

By Chop Chop

October 16, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

I think I watched about 18 innings out of the four NLCS games. Chip doesn’t seem so bad that way.

Dice-K actually had a pretty good first season in the bigs. He just needs to figure out a way to keep his pitch count down. He should be better next season.

I could never dislike the Red Sox. I can be annoyed by them (for example, I’m not particularly rooting for them in the ALCS), but I could never hate them. Their fans hate the Yankees more than I do. That’s a lot of hate.

Schafer looks like he could be a very good big leaguer, but he’s going to have to have a great season to be up with the big club next year or in ‘09. He needs to dial the aggressiveness down a little, though. Tearing a knee/fracturing a skull/breaking an ankle by running into a wall isn’t going to make him the big bucks anytime soon. After all, his hitting/speed/power potential that will get him to Atlanta. He can’t hit if he’s not able to take the field. Save the defensive acrobatics for the bigs, Schafer. The scouts know what you can do.

Hot Stove Talk

If the Braves sign Mike Cameron, they won’t make the playoffs next season. Signing Tom Glavine seems like a good idea on paper, but it doesn’t exactly inspire me to know that the Braves would have two forty-somethings in the rotation. Then again, not much about the current Braves team inspires me. We just need to accept that the Braves are a mediocre bunch. The glory days are over, baby. It’s going to get worse before it gets better. LET’S GO BRAVES! (There. That’s positive.)

Falcons Talk

The Falcons stink, but it’s not Petrino’s fault. They stink because they have a long, storied history of stinking. They have a soft team. It needs to be purged of its softness. I don’t know if Petrino is the man for the job, but he’s currently the man with the job. He deserves the opportunity to lose and win with this organization. After all, that bum Jim Mora got three years. His team folded like a cheap suit in the second half in two of those three seasons. If Petrino doesn’t bolt, he should at least get that kind of breathing space.

By TennesseePaul

October 16, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

So argumentative. Just posted stats and said they were both good and now all these qualifiers have to be thrown in there with an attempt to pull down Pujols from his mighty perch. The guy is good, one of the greatest ever to play the game. No harm in calling it like it is or stating simply that he is on pace to put up an even more amazing career than A-Rod.
A-Rod played 3rd and short therefore has more value than Pujols who’s played 3B, LF, SS, RF, and 1B.
Look, they are both great players. Both. Each one. A-Rod and Pujols. Both. They’ll more than likely both be in the Hall of Fame. There is no ranking in the hall as to who is more hall of fame than the next guy.

”Don’t make an out. No outs. Avoid the out. Don’t make the out. Out. Stay away from the out. Don’t make the out. No out. Out. Don’t get out. Avoid out. Just say no to out. No out. Against out. Don’t make the out.” Pujols says that all the time and follows through. A-Rod… not so much.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, not trying to be argumentative. I’m not sure who is more valuable because it’s hard to distinguish between the two. Both are about as valuable as it gets. Just say I think you have to take context into consideration (position, for example).

By ncscoots

October 16, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Chop, it isn’t as if Schaefer never met a wall he didn’t like, unlike some of blog’s favorite players-to-be-named. Besides, scouts remember if a player short-arms at the wall, too, and that’s a rep no player in the minors wants.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, all I’m saying is outplaying your opponent is a great way to measure how much a player is contributing to his team winning. Doesn’t matter what a player may contribute if he isn’t outplaying his opponents. Either one of those two will run circles around most guys at their positions.

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, all I’m saying is outplaying your opponent at the same position is a great way to measure how much a player is contributing to his team winning. Doesn’t matter what a player may contribute if he isn’t outplaying his opponents. Either one of those two will run circles around most guys at their positions.

By Lew

October 16, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop-I agree with you (to a point) about Cameron. I don’t want him, but don’t think he would be the reason we finish out of the money again. I hear you on Glavine, but as long as Glavine is not the only starter we pick up (a young guy like Gorzelany or Snell would be nice), I think he would be a good addition and would definitely upgrade our rotation over last year.

Not so sure I share your somewhat gloomy outlook, though. I think we have the nucleus of an excellent team in place and have some great talent (pitching in particular) in the pipeline-certainly enough to get us who we need, if nothing else. Everyone is looking for pitching and with the lack, thereof, are unlikely to fare any better than us in it’s acquisition, so I’m not really worried-at least not about our division chances.

Shaun-Definitely include your point of view with your stats-you do have validity to your views. Just be aware that there are other, equally relevant and accurate viewpoints, derived by means other than your sources. That’s all we ask. Remember the smugness many have mentioned? That’s what you need to avoid, not your conclusions. You’re a smart guy-just don’t limit your horizons and learn to accept data from others, as well as your favorite sources. Our viewpoint counts, too and we have been known to be correct on any number of occasions.

By [][][][]Berigan[][][][]

October 16, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I see just about every baseball “expert” but one(Peter gammons) get reamed once in awhile, and I bet there are those who dislike him as well. You can’t please everyone….but, doesn’t mean stat freaks (you, and all those other freaks! ;) can’t learn more about trying to see why some people are clutch, or do the little things that help teams win, while “numbers putter uppers”™” guys sometimes don’t. Might be interesting to find a way to quantify their winning ways, in some statistical way.

If the Phillies had 8 Jimmy Rollins, they’d be in the playoffs still….well, at least they’d have won a game or two in that first round at least! But, it seemed you didn’t see how he was better than most guys, just because he walked a few dozen less times than other leadoff hitters. Chris Young had terrible numbers for a leadoff hitter, but….he helped lead his team to the playoffs, and the best record in the NL. Why? He often gave his team a lead, which they rarely relinquished. Numbers, short of homers, sucked, but still helped his team win games.

By Adirondackdave

October 16, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

DOB - You asked about Mad Men on AMC. I’ve been watching it from episode one and it really is consistently good, especially when it flashes back to Don’s childhood,etc. The characters are unique and well-drawn. Up here it ends, I believe, this Thursday nite at 9. I’m sure AMC will re-run it.

Ten years or so ago, AMC developed another 10-15 episode series, forget the name, about a 1940s radio station that created its own programming. That was equally good.

By Heretic

October 16, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Shaun You are smart, articulate, baseball-savvy and probably a good dancer But you are boring! And the people who have nothing better to do with their time than to sit here and “converse” with you, deserve you. All of you check on ebay and see if you can buy a life. Bye

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, I disagree with you on Schafer’s aggressiveness. That’s EXACTLY what you want to see, a kid willing to sacrifice his body to make a play. What do you mean, “defensive acrobatics?” Have you seen the kid play, or are you just basing that on the fact the kid ran into a wall? We’ve got folks here falling all over themselves to sign Rowand, and his running face-first into a wall is held up as one reason folks love him….

Oh, and the Falcons stink? Dude, who cares why they stink. They stink about seven years out of every 10, always have. You’re talking about a franchise that literally has never had back-to-back winning seasons. That’s astounding.

By GermanBravesFan

October 16, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if anybody has seen/read this before, but I just found this quote from John Schuerholtz on the Mets Blog:

http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/16/quote-30-m-per-year-is-idiotic/

Quite interesting! But: Bravo JS! There is no way, I want Andruw to stay on this team!

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this

Berigan, problem is there is no reason to believe there is an innate ability to hit in the clutch any more than in any other situation. One year what a player does in the clutch may be significantly better than his overall abilities, one year it may be worse. There is no rhyme or reason. And if it’s not repeatable it probably means it’s not a skill.

By bobby

October 16, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

The Braves don’t need Willie Harris to play centerfield. After all you can’t steal first base.

By journalist jimmy smtih

October 16, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

a box arrived for jimmy smith today and it was empty! that’s right, empty! traces of crumbs could be found and now jimmysmiththinks the cake from flbravesgirl was stolen in transit to jimmy smith. flbravesgirl, was the cake mailed to jimmy smith in good condition? could it be that the ups driver ate the cake that was always intended for carolina lady?

and did someone’s i.p. get blocked last night? jimmy smith suspects this may have happened to a certain odious blogger who may have experienced meltdown last night.

and journalist studied the latest wurlitzer some more today and discovered that lew now takes the american express card. very clever how lew worked that in.

and now, journalist talked recently with tommy nobis and thinks tommy nobis could still play. best falcon ever. tough. played on bad teams (all falcons teams are bad teams). still in good shape but old like lew and grinch.

and whatever happened that no one appreciates good ukulele music on this blog? here’s a tip for dob: learn to play the ukulele and will win anne’s heart.

and now a huntin’ report: no one was killed today though chipper and laroche both had loaded guns. laroche followed some tracks in an attempt to find big game but laroche was struck by the train.

and journalist is nostalgic about uh, chipper’s diary. remember chipper’s diary?

“uh, i have a ranch. it is a big ranch. it is in texas. i shot a deer on my ranch. it was a big deer. i skinned it and signed it for a fan. i like huntin’ and i like you.” your friend, chipper jones

not quite mark davis, but not bad.

By Steamboat

October 16, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

Shaun, what about Francoeur? A lifetime line of .280/.319/.463. But, lifetime with RISP: .332/.381/.535. Lifetime 2 out, RISP: .310/.371/.500. And lifetime “late and close”: .304/.343/.536.

And while not as exaggerated, I believe that Pujols has consistently hit better (OPS) with RISP and close ‘n late (every year, I believe, though I just glanced at the numbers).

You can say (and I’m sure prove) that “clutch” hitters are rare, but I don’t think you can (accurately) declare that they don’t exist.

By Savannah Guy

October 16, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Avoid out. Just say no to out. No out. Against out.

Don’t mean to be argumentative or technical, but, well, your proposed elimination of “Out” (aka out avoidance) is ill advised and really screws everything up in baseball. But nooo…you want to just toss out out like an old overused sock with holes in it. Oh, right…sure, I get it…throwing out out will work just fine. Right. Can’t even believe you would suggest arbitrarily throwing out a perfectly good out like that. Must be easy for you to just sit out there and say, “no out”. Heartless I’d say. Outs have rights too.

Have you even stopped for a minute to ponder the ramifications of tossing out such an out tradition? Oh, I can just hear it now…7th inning comes along and everyone sings along in confusion…”take, me safe to the ballgame, take me safe to the crowd”.

See? Won’t work. This has gone too far. What next? Just say no to peanuts and Cracker Jack? Gee wiz…

By Shaun

October 16, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

Steamboat, look at Francoeur from year-to-year and look at a variety of his clutch numbers. In some tight situations in some years he’s good in other tight situations he’s not as good.

Or instance in 2006 with the Braves within 1 run of their opponents, Francoeur hit .256/.289/.409. If Francoeur has some innate ability—clutch hitting—why didn’t he hit well in that situation.

Now I’m not denying that clutch hitting exist. Just that major league players don’t have a unique ability from other players to hit significantly better in the clutch than others. Doesn’t mean there aren’t good situational hitters and certain skill sets don’t perform better in certain situations. I think contact hitters with good discipline and good bat-control probably hit well in certain situations. I just don’t think it’s something within a players character that makes him mentally tough to hit better than others in clutch situations, for the reasons I’ve mentioned before. I think if you get scared and nervous in tight situations, you aren’t going to be mentally strong enough to reach the majors.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 16, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

After catching up on the running conversations…… A thought, maybe there are more clutch pitchers than there are clutch hitters…..

Good one JimmySmith, journalist extraordinaire… Now, if one were to ask you to submit to a lie detector test, would jimmysmith be able to say the cake did not arrive or would he crumble under pressure? More mystery for the blog…. And if it were pound cake, would jimmy tip the scales of justice? Oh the humanity….

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 16, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

DOB You must pass along to Hoss my newly discovered secret for attracting deer. Rose bushes, yes as long as he does not water the bushes in the manner advised by the Grinch.

Now there is a lynx prowling the neighborhood at night. I got a flashlight beam on him but by the time I retrieved my rifle he had absconded with one of my ducks.

Perhaps you don’t really need that big of place for wild game. Plenty of white tails here in Mechanicsville. Lots of deer too…..

By jbutler

October 16, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

DOB Maybe I’m biased (okay probably!!) but I love having an upstart team riding it into the Series. I hope they play the Tribe…I know its a nightmare for advertisers since its not NY/LA dollars…but the same tired cast of characters gets old. Truly. They’ve started running “getting to know” articles in the Rocky Mountain News cause no one knows the players. I love it. The same thing happened with the CO Avalanche when they won the Stanley Cup in 96…we got the best goalie in the game, and everyone pronounced his name is Roy as in Seigfreid not Patrick. Hilarious and a great change of pace.

Hope you get to stay in a decent spot- any of the downtown big hotels are okay- at least a shuttle away from LODO.

By Steamboat

October 16, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I would argue that “within 1 run” is not a very good definition of a clutch hitting situation. That would include being down 1-0 in the bottom of the 1st. Hardly what I’d call a test of a hitter’s mettle.

“Late and Close” is a much better defining stat, and in ‘06, Jeff’s numbers were .304/.339/.637 (!).

I certainly agree that no one who’s afraid of his shadow is going to make it to the majors. Confidence is a primary factor in succeeding at anything - and probably even more so in sports.

But are you really saying that every major league player has exactly the same mental makeup when it comes to pressure situations? That some don’t respond better, or concentrate more, or have a greater fear of failure (or whatever drives them) than others?

I acknowledge that it’s probably rare to find players who consistently hit better in the clutch, but I still say that both Frenchy and Pujols do… and they’re the only two I’ve looked at (just based on a guess).

By BossLady

October 16, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Just back in town, reading the blog an catching up. If you guys are having this Cowboy shindig, then you will need Miss Kitty to take charge and tell you guys what to do.

I am loving on Matt Holliday he is the man. What about Kenny Loften? This poor guy has been traded to almost every team, we Braves did not like him, yet, he is the Mayor of Cleveland. (Cleveland whoop di do)

The Falcons have never been good to me since Bartkowski in 1981. Joe Horn should go back to “N’Olins” or somewhere.

Andruw will be just fine. I did not want to see him leave but business is business which I live with ALL day.

It would be good to see the Rockies and the Indians in the WS. I do not like the Red Sox since ESPN and all give them too much playing time to them along with the Yankees. A a woman I love to look at the Yankees and that’s all. I am glad that the Indians beat their a$$.

Pujols and A-Rod are about equal to me in their careers. Let’s not downplay either.

I was listening to 97.1 back from the airport and it was swinging. All that was missing was Garo McKee, you would have had to been there back in the day. I like Peter Gabriel.

ROCK on DOB!!!!!!!!!!!

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 16, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

TheJackAss rode past stinky’s house today…stinky was crawling around underneath his trailer trying to put it back on it’s cinder blocks and re-level it…must of been one helluva commotion gone on it that piece of tin and kindling wood last nite…while ol’ stinky was a bloggin’ with himself…

By BossLady

October 16, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this

Lew

You know some people live within their own minds. They only hear what they are saying. You have to just allow them that since what you say will never be heard or comprehended. If they came out they would probably fall apart to see what all has happened since they were last here in the population.

By Carolina Lady

October 16, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

jbutler, I love that the Rockies are in the series, as well! I’d be happy to never hear of the Yankees, Red Sox, et al again. (A primary reason I refuse to watch ESPN…)

Jimmy, where’s my cake?

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

jbutler, my man — you forget we go to Denver every single year with the team. Not like it’s an AL city or something. I’ve stayed at downtown Denver hotels now for 13 years of covering ball.

But thanks for thinking of me.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

if anyone out there pays to be on Bill Shanks’ website, we’re getting ready to do a one-hour thing, taking calls, etc. I’m calling in now, starts at 8 p.m. Personally, I don’t pay for the site, so I don’t know how it works. But just in case any of you do…

Later.

By Tyler

October 16, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun and Steamboat-A clutch hitter does not have to be measured in his average, OBP, or OPS in late and close games. Yes, it determines one’s consistency, but what really matters are the number of game winning runs, game winning hits, or a heads up plays. You see players who have a knack for being the “hero”. That player is the one who you see consistently get the game winning hit. AJ was a clutch hitter in ‘05. He had a number of game winning hits. Escobar is a clutch hitter. He thrives under pressure and makes heads up plays (stealing cheap bases), as is Franceour.

More important than being a clutch hitter, IMO, is being a clutch player. When I think of a clutch player, I think of Derek Jeter. Remember that play against Oakland in the ALCS when he ran across the diamond and backhanded the ball to the catcher and get the out? That was INCREDIBLE.

By Ted's Airline and Cropdusting Service

October 16, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien, I am low bidder on the AJC World Series package this year and I understand you will be flying with me to the World Series games.

I look forward to meeting you and sharing the friendly skies.

My bid includes flight and lodging. You will be able to carry one suitcase and you will be limited to one traveling companion provided she is old and small.

You will be staying with my cousins in Denver, Conrad and Connie. Conrad has a good hotel sounding name and Connie makes good biscuits. I think you will be very comfortable with them.

Thank you for flying Ted.

By BossLady

October 16, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Whew!! I think that is all……..

By journalist jimmy smith

October 16, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

who will tell dob about jbutler? oh, the humiliation of dob mistaking gender!

and carolina lady, the cake was in the mail.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 16, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

oh, to be able to write like this:

“It didn’t go far from its Grant Park digs. People reported seeing the Parabuteo unicinctus at a nearby BP, hanging out. Others said they saw the feathered fugitive hovering around the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. One Grant Park resident took a photo of the fierce-eyed raptor as it sat in a tree in his backyard.”

mark davis, talking hawks missing from the zoo. maybe mark davis can talk stinky, also missing from the zoo.

By keylargo25

October 16, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

Game 7 of the 1992 NLCS vs. the Pirates is on ESPN Classic at 3 am (Wed). Program those Tivoes.

By Carolina Lady

October 16, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, the cake was in the mail??

DOB, JButler is the wonderful mother of 4 gorgeous children…..

By JJMB

October 16, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Matt Holliday. Matt Holliday. MVP. What a year he’s having. Rocks all the way.

Carolina Lady, so nice to hear your good news. I missed your sardonic edge. :)

By ncscoots

October 16, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

jjs has it right about the ukelele…I mean, DBTs and Kings Of Leon are cool, like ‘em myself, but when we start talking Brudda Iz, we be talking tuneage, bubba.

By Carolina Lady

October 16, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

Many thanks, JJMB! It’s so good just to feel good! :-) I’m not quite up to 100% yet but I’m on the way!

By JJMB

October 16, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

Good thoughts to you, CL.

Now if the Bossox lose, well that would be just too good. 99.875% of all obnoxious fans would be eliminated.

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

Now if the Bossox lose, well that would be just too good. 99.875% of all obnoxious fans would be eliminated.

You are giving no credit to the Yankee, Mets or Phillies fans. They are all obnoxious.

By Rosalynn

October 16, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

Hallo, everahbodah! It has been a difficult few dahs heah at the Carter Centah. Jimma seems to have lost his evahluvin mind. Fuhst, Jimma said with one moah helacopta he could have rescued the hostages and would have been re-elected to anotha tuhm. Second, Jimma said some ugla things about Dick Chenah. Ah have been dodging flak evah since.

And now Ah must address mah next remahks to The Grinch, Ama is not homelah, Ama is not plain, Ama is mah daughtah, though it causes me pain.

Stop writing heah lettahs, stop calling heah phone, Please Mistuh Grinch, leave mah Ama alone.

Ah have been reading about this missing cake. If the Secret Suhvice can be useful in tracking down this cake or this cake-eatah, y’all just let me know and I will send those secret suhvice boahs right on ovah, red rovah.

I would now like to talk some baseball. I do not think Tom Glavine has anahthing left. Tomma Tune can throw hahdah than Tomma G. Plus, Tomma G. suffahs from cold ring fingah. Cold ring fingah is the next thing to erectile dysfunction and Jimma says Tomma G. probabla can’t *censored* anahmoah.

“Okay, Commanduh, heah Ah come …”

By JJMB

October 16, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

You are giving no credit to the Yankee, Mets or Phillies fans. They are all obnoxious.

That’s what I meant. (In my obtuse way).

By andrew

October 16, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

sox fans are not that bad. they just have a lot of passion. yankee, met, and phillie fans are out to embarrass you

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Ouch. My bad, Jbutler. Now I feel like a dolt.

You were just trying to help, and here I jump on you for acting like it’s my first trip to your fair city.

Please accept my apologies.

By the way, what’s the bar/restaurant on a corner on the 16th St. Mall that has incredible buffalo burgers. And no, not Ted’s Montana Grill (there’s one of those in Larimer Square, but I’m talking about a local establishment).

By keylargo25

October 16, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

ChrisKlob

Isn’t it ironic that the four teams fans mentioned could be considered to be from the same area?

By Rosalynn

October 16, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Oh, mah! Ah am so embahassed! Jimma said cold ring fingah is the next thing to tactile dysfunction. Ah misundahstood the old fool.

By JJMB

October 16, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

sox fans are not that bad. they just have a lot of passion.

Yeah? well they can keep that Soxnation crap to themselves when they invade other cities.

If Boston is so great, why ITF don’t they stay there? Same for NY and PHil.

By jbutler

October 16, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady I’m with you on the ESPN boycott…you’d think the MLB had 3 teams if that’s all you’d watch…(Hey..thanks for defending my gender!! Always the Lady…)

DOB No harm. I certainly don’t take you for an AL outsider. Its the mother in me…always looking to give suggestions - even when its not always wanted!!

By keylargo25

October 16, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

Ms. Rosalynn

Tommy G. does indeed have that cold ring finger syndrome. Fortunately for him it is easily corrected by taking Viagra just before he begins his warm up session in the bullpen. There is one nagging side effect that is easily covered up with the male protection device (the cup) worn by all baseball players. So, if you see him having trouble keeping that cup adjusted or you see it moving around mysteriously, you’ll know why.

By Wayne in Utah

October 16, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Does anyone have a synopsis of DOB’s venture to Shanksville?

By Herman (The Baseball Expert)

October 16, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Blog down?

By Wayne in Utah

October 16, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Tribe is putting a serious hurtin’ on the Sox!

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

keylargo, yes, one could surmise that the issues previously discussed regarding the fans of those four teams and their behavior do share a certain “regional” interest.

By Wayne in Utah

October 16, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

Herman: Probably just disinterested…..

By David-ATL14

October 16, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Stellar job on the Talk show tonight DOB. Absolutely stellar.

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

As wild and crazy as things got last night I was afraid that it was gonna be quiet in here tonight. I should have opened Klobber’s Knob Creek saloon at 5 pm today, just like yesterday. We’d be having a lot more fun right now if I had!

By flbravesgirl

October 16, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

jimmy, of course the cake was in good condition when I shipped it. It looked beautiful. Obviously we need a more secure method of transport than UPS. Armed guard, perhaps? Maybe you boys need to form up the posse again & escort the cake to Carolina Lady to keep the brown-backed cake rustlers out of it.

By keylargo25

October 16, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

Since it’s quiet, I will ask some advice from the audiophiles out there. I bought a new plasma tv to replace my old plasma and am moving that one into the bedroom. It’s just a monitor and I have to supply the sound. I was thinking a box system, although a good one, under $1K. Will consider others too. Give me some help BRAVE FANS.

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

Thanks, David-ATL. Did you ask a question, by chance? Didn’t get through many of them. I’m too long-winded to allow me to go on at length like that.

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

flbravesgirl, as I recall you live somewhere on Florida’s west coast. If you could somehow find a way to get the next cake up to Savannah Guy in Savannah then he can get it to me in Charleston (only two hours). I in turn will happily deliver said cake to our friend in Eastern North Carolina (only a few hours away). You see, this plan is foolproof as there are no dishonest UPS, USPS, FedEx, DHL drivers or any other sketchy types involved in the transaction.

Mmmm…..by the way, Carolina Lady tells me she really likes red velvet cake. Yeah, that’s it, make her a red velvet cake. SG and I will take care of the rest!

By David O'Brien

October 16, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

Amazing how so many good teams get this far and then they’re pitching just looks worn out. Beckett’s lived up to billing, a big-game pitcher just as he was for Florida in 2003. But the rest of the Sox arms — who’d have thought Boston wouldn’t be able to get another starter through five innings?

Or that Atlanta resident Paul Byrd — who had not one, but two, chances with the Braves — would be dealing like this for Cleveland in the postseason? When him and Smoltz were throwing last winter in their neighborhood, this probably isn’t the scenario they envisioned, that Byrd would be nearing the World Series and Smoltz would be in the third week of vacation.

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, I agreed with the comments you made earlier about Matsuzaka. For all the hype surrounding him I’ve found him to be a very pedestrian pitcher. Perhaps it’s because of the different pitching schedule or the culture shock. Whatever it is, he ain’t that special. At least not yet.

DOB, I know that you’ve said that you’re not a Braves fan. From a professional standpoint I understand that you have to maintain an objective outlook towards the team that you spend so much time with. We know about your collegiate alliances. What about your favorite baseball team or favorite NFL team? You may have mentioned them in the past but I don’t recall.

By flbravesgirl

October 16, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

Chris, it was a Red Velvet cake. And yes, I’m down here on the Suncoast so it’s still a good distance from here to Savannah. Ok, who’s in between the Tampa Bay area & Savannah?

By Carolina Lady

October 16, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

FBG, I suspect (strongly) that if we checked for crumbs in a place right outside of Atlanta, we would find the culprit! And Baby Seal, too.

“Mmmm…..by the way, Carolina Lady tells me she really likes red velvet cake. Yeah, that’s it, make her a red velvet cake. SG and I will take care of the rest!” Chris, your altruism is boundless! :-)))

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

it was a Red Velvet cake. That’s wonderful because it’s, uh, uh, yeah it’s Carolina Lady’s absolute favorite. I’m sure that we can find someone to transport said red velvet cake from Florida’s lovely Sun Coast up to the Carolina Lowcountry. Hey, Savannah Guy doesn’t seem to be around so maybe I’ll just handle the whole transaction myself. You know, to save time.

CL, I am only trying to be like the Southern gentleman that I was taught to be!

By uga-brave

October 16, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

gotta love joe giardi’s comments about manny being manny. down 7-3 and you act like a horses arse.

bet its a pretty somber night in the cask n flagon tonight. clevland better end it on thurs. because if the dont i think it is boston’s to lose.

just saw there was a man on a crane in buckhead. please tell chris woodward to come on down. DOB

By Carolina Lady

October 16, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

Chris, I believe every word.

or not….

:-)))

By Carolina Lady

October 17, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

‘Night, all!

By flbravesgirl

October 17, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

Of course you are, Chris, just like jimmy was.

Night, CL!

By Lew

October 17, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

JJMB-People don’t stay in Boston because it is the hardest city on the East Coast to drive in. I’ve lived in Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Tampa/ST.Pete and Orlando and I’ve driven in all the other big cities, even hitting Baltimore and DC at rush hour. Boston is the worst. Whenever we go there, for whatever reason, we just park at the hotel and take cabs-with our eyes covered.

By Coach

October 17, 2007 3:17 AM | Link to this

So , it’s looking like the Rockies and Indians in the World Series. That is great for baseball as a sport , but it’s going to be a rating’s nightmare for the tv networks.

By ncscoots

October 17, 2007 6:25 AM | Link to this

A big day in the desert for young Braves…Clint Sammons drives in 5, Holt and Schaefer go 2-for-4. I’ve always thought that, of the two, Diory Hernandez had more ceiling than J.C. Holt, but Braves obviously think Holt is closer. Might be time to get him on the blog radar.

By David-ATL14

October 17, 2007 8:18 AM | Link to this

DOB just listened to you. Didnt ask though had I, it would have been about Rent and how much you think Leyland and Dombroski still want him in Detroit. I figured since you have covered all 3, you would have some insight or contacts.

Also glad to see you have started watching Mad Men. It’s a fantastic period piece.

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

I am happy to see the Rockies and the Indians make it if that is the World Series we get. I like to see teams do it the right way.

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

Klobber We had our Wild West Nite the other day, so, what’s gonna be the theme tonight at Knob Creek? Is it Karaoke Night where we all sing our favorite songs? Disco Night so DOB can shoot himself listening to us make disco references? Old Skool Hip Hop Night where we can all get down and do some break dancing? Or are we gonna have a CBGB’s flashback night and be a bunch of punk rockers? Or maybe we’re just gonna be Pirates tonight. Let us know. We’ll get into character and pick our songs.

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

For those of you who think Dayn Perry has something personal against the Braves:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7323092

By journalist jimmy smith

October 17, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

By chrisklob

October 16, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

flbravesgirl, as I recall you live somewhere on Florida’s west coast. If you could somehow find a way to get the next cake up to Savannah Guy in Savannah then he can get it to me in Charleston (only two hours). I in turn will happily deliver said cake to our friend in Eastern North Carolina (only a few hours away). You see, this plan is foolproof as there are no dishonest UPS, USPS, FedEx, DHL drivers or any other sketchy types involved in the transaction.

leaving jimmy smith out of the delivery loop? hmmm…

chrisklob certainly could not be suggesting jimmy smith is a sketchy type, right? sketchy might apply to lew, however, artist. sketches all the time. journalist is not sketchy at all.

and baby seal denies any knowledge of the cake and is hurt that carolina lady has suggested such misbehavior on the part of baby seal. remember, great seal of the united states in baby seal’s hero. integrity.

now, baseball … who cares with the braves out a huntin’? and what will chipper kill today? will it be big enough to autograph?

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

maybe not sketchy. maybe he’s just looking at your sticky fingers and wondering how they got so sticky? could it be the red velvet cake that made the fingers so sticky? but baby seal has no fingers to get sticky and baby seal does not use a fork. but who does have fingers and is close to baby seal? and who hand feeds that baby seal? so many questions with such obvious answers.

sticky fingers are not to be confused with stinky fingers. stinky fingers are useless once banned.

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

remember last winter when it seemed obvious that the rockies should trade todd helton away to the red sox because it made no sense to have a big contract on a team going nowhere? guess we were wrong. divine intervention stopped that deal.

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Isn’t it funny how the media makes a big deal out of low NLCS ratings yet ignore the context—LCS games were on cable for the first time ever instead of network TV, many games were on late or very late for a large portion of the country and it involved expansion teams established within the last 13 years.

Why doesn’t the media study this issued like this: Determine how many people in the country consider themselves “avid” fans then determine how many of them watched.

And there have to be some past studies on how many avid fans there are relative to the population. Why doesn’t anyone look at those and compare them as time has gone on to determine if baseball is doomed to become like hockey or the WNBA, as the media seems to think? Oh, yeah, the media can’t use truth and reason.

By Jared

October 17, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

Can the Braves get Paul Byrd? There were rumors last offseason of the Indians trading him to the Braves for Marcus Giles, but the Braves not wanting to pay his salary. And there was talk of the Indians declining his option for 2008 until he started pitching better. I’d personally rather have Byrd than Glavine.

By Lew

October 17, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

At the beginning of the season, I would bet there were two twelve year olds in Denver and one in Cleveland who thought their teams would make the World Series. They were all laughed at.

By geauxbraves2000

October 17, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

If the Indians do make it past Boston, will ESPN even mention the WS once their “babies” are out?

Geaux Braves!!

By greg

October 17, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

DAN, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO BARNACLES IN STONECREST?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 17, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

The Cleveland Indians 62 million dollar payroll , the Arizona Diamondbacks 52 million dollar payroll and the Colorado Rockies 55 million dollar payroll add up to a lot of home grown talent. It once again begs the question , has Schuerholz’s philosophy of trading home grown talent for proven major league ability sold the Braves short over the long term ? Opinion’s , anyone ?

By Savannah Guy

October 17, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Hey, Savannah Guy doesn’t seem to be around so maybe I’ll just handle the whole transaction myself. You know, to save time.

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain then there is.

Seems just because a guy wants to get a little sleep he misses an opportunity to courier a Red Velvet cake from flbravesgirl to Chrisklob, who would then make the final leg of the delivery with what’s left of…uh, deliver the cake to Carolina Lady. Then Klobber get’s hungry, er, anxious and decides to take Sleeping guy out of the loop. Just ain’t right. Greedy gut?

Had the cake, then didn’t. First there was a cake, then…there was no cake. Oh, and I was so close I could taste it…uh, feel it, er…you know.

So the bases are now loaded with potential and eager cake runners. Jimmy has offered and is in position at first…Savannah is holding at second, Klobber is licking his chops within a cakewalk of home plate. At the dish, the Red Velvet batter flbravesgirl is waiting for one right in her kitchen, while Carolina Lady is in the dugout giving hand signals…

Bundt the runners over?

By hell

October 17, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Lew-even more laughed at were the over-the-hill Braves fans who thought the Braves had a snow balls chance in hell of even making the playoffs in ‘07!

By Jared

October 17, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

even more laughed at were the over-the-hill Braves fans who thought the Braves had a snow balls chance in hell of even making the playoffs in ‘07!

The Braves finished all of five games behind the first place Phillies moron.

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Lew, no one expected the Rockies. But both Buster Olney and Rob Neyer picked the Indians to win the Series. Gammons picked the Indians to win the Wild Card. Diamondmind had the Indians at 91-71 (and the White Sox 78-84, I might add). PECOTA had the Indians at 90-72. I had the Indians winning the Central.

Rockies are a huge surprise but the Indians, not so much.

By Adirondackdave

October 17, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

DaveA-14 and DOB and others— Yes, Mad Men is a series on AMC definitely worth watching. This week I hear is the last episode. We get it Thursday nite on TW cable up here. Hope the do a second season and more. It reminds me a lot of a 1940s series AMC did about ten years ago about a medium size radio station that did most of it’s own programming. Forgotten the name of the series but it was hilarious period piece… Anybody remember the name?

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008), is that his philosophy? I see plenty of homegrown talent at the big league level for the Braves—Francoeur, McCann, Kelly Johnson, Escobar, Chipper, Chuck James. When’s the last time the Braves have made a bad trade with homegrown talent? I can’t think of any time off the top of my head.

By hell

October 17, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

The Braves finished all of five games behind the first place Phillies moron.

Damn what an observation!

Consequently, the Phillies made it to the playoffs, the Braves did not, Dipsh!t!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

October 17, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

If the Indians do make it past Boston, will ESPN even mention the WS once their “babies” are out?

If the Yankee series was any indication, the answer is “no.”

After the last game of that series, ESPN aired a 30 minute press conference with Joe Torre. Never once interviewed any of the Indians or acknowledged the fact that they’d won….only acknowledged that the Yankees had lost. They did the same thing last year when the Tigers beat them. An hour of Jeter an Torre interviews, and the “Breaking News” strip at the bottom-right of the screen on ESPNEWS read “Yankees eliminated from playoffs” instead of “Tigers advance to ALCS.” If it wasn’t so sickening, it would be laughable.

By DAP

October 17, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

jared i can see how you could want byrd instead of glavine. the thing is, the are extremly similar except for age, and how much money they would get. byrd is younger (a good thing) but will get more money (a bad thing…or it could be)

if we could get paul byrd for maybe 9 mil per he would want a multi-year deal probably), id say do it. other wise, get glvaine for 7mil (hopefully) for one year and then move on after that.

By Carolina Lady

October 17, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Savannah Guy, those weren’t hand signals; this Lady is baking her own cake ‘cause FBG’s magnificent creation will never complete the journey!

jjs, there’s a little spot of something on your chin….. and Baby Seal likes Fish Cakes…..

:-)))

By ColoradoBraves Fan

October 17, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me about this braves “prospect” hitting 320 with one homer in the Mexican league? His name is Chris Woodward…

By hell

October 17, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Now that TBS won’t be airing Braves games all over the globe, who will replace them as “America’s team”? Considering that the Braves will only be seen on TV within coat hanger distance of Turner Field?

By DAP

October 17, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

coach, to answer your question about JS strategies hurting the organization. id say no.

for one, the braves were winners 14 years in a row, so they have had WAY more success than the rockies and diamond backs, and clevland had a nice run in the 90s as well, but the braves had a better one. so, right away, if you compare those teams to the braves organization, the braves are better.

two, not many prospects or homegrown players JS traded ever amounted to much. off of the top of my head, and can only think of three homegrown braves players JS traded that helped their team win anything big. justice, wainwright, and dye. it took forever for dye to do it, wainwright was a minor league pitcher, and you just never know about those,(plus it helped US win) and even after the justice trade, we went on to win 9 more division championships and one more NL championship, so it obviously didnt hurt us too bad.

and finally, the braves have as much homegrown talent as anyone in the majors.

By flbravesgirl

October 17, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Maybe I need to make more than one cake. jimmy, are you sure that’s not cream cheese icing on baby seal’s whiskers?

SG, loved the play-by-play. LOL.

By flange1

October 17, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Coach,

Interesting question! My thoughts are that JS has not made any trade of Braves prospects that hurt the team in the long run.

The only prospect that I wish we had kept is Adam Wainright. And without JD Drew, we would not have made the playoffs that year.

So, I think JS has done a fine job of trading prospects for ML ready talent and/or veterans.

By David O'Brien

October 17, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Keep an eye on the Renteria/Tigers thing in weeks to come. It’s worth watching. Until I hear someone from Braves tell me they’re not trading Edgar, I’m still believing it’s a good possibility, and I know how much Jim Leyland and Dombrowski love the guy. The Tigers are definitely looking to acquire a new starting shortstop this winter, since they plan to move Carlos Guillen, to 1B.

If you’re the Tigers, wouldn’t you rather trade for Edgar than sign free agent David Eckstein or another from a relatively think SS class?

Tigers wouldn’t trade Verlander, but might they trade, say, Bonderman in a deal for Renteria? Or would the Braves really want him, considering he lost eight of his last 10 starts before being shut down for a sore elbow in mid-September (no surgery anticipated)?

He was 10-1 with a 3.50 ERA at the break, but ended up 11-9 with a 5.01 ERA. Big problem: I think he’s gonna make$8.5 mill next season, then about $25 mill during 2009-1010 in the last two years of a backloaded four-year contract.

Like I said, problem.

Bonderman got that deal after going 14-8 with a 4.08 ERA and 202 strikeouts in 34 starts for AL pennant winners in 2006. Remember, many rated Bonderman ahead of Verlander a couple of years ago.

Personally, I think I’d rather have Noah Lowry (12-12, 4.10 ERA before shutting down with sore elbow in September; again, no surgery), and would rather have Oakland’s affordable Blanton or very talented Haren, if any way whatsoever Braves could get one of them.

Detroit’s Nate Robertson anyone? For me, they need better than that in a deal for Renteria….

Oh, and I saw a list of longest homers hit in majors this season, and Teixeira’s estimated 470-foot blast Sept. 21 against Milwaukee in Atlanta was second, behind only Chris Young’s 476-footer off David Wells the following day in Phoenix….

By TheSchwinn

October 17, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Shaun do you have any thoughts or numbers concerning consumption rates of Red Velvet cake versus chocolate fudge cake? What say you?

By KC

October 17, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Shaun: “Isn’t it funny how the media makes a big deal out of low NLCS ratings yet ignore the context—LCS games were on cable for the first time ever instead of network TV, many games were on late or very late for a large portion of the country and it involved expansion teams established within the last 13 years.”

Exactly right. TBS can’t do much about the fact that 2 teams with a relatively small national following played games well beyond the bedtime of a large percentage of America.

Also true that cable vs. free-tv played some role.

As for their coverage… I think they did well. But I do wish I could have heard Joe Simpson for every post-season game, and a lot less of Tony Gwynn (who was a great player and is a great guy, but not a great commentator to listen to) and Chip Caray, who I’ve just never been able to warm up to.

Boog and Joe is now the best play-by-play combo in the game that I’m aware of (though I certainly can’t claim to have heard them all).

The thing is, I didn’t want to like Boog. I was pi$$ed that they felt the need to bring in an outsider. But the fact is that he’s a likable guy who is genuine on the air (doesn’t try too hard to be an announcer), is good at calling game, and blends well with Joe.

By Jared

October 17, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Consequently, the Phillies made it to the playoffs, the Braves did not

Too bad the Phillies won the exact same amount of playoff games in 2007 as the Braves.

• we could get paul byrd for maybe 9 mil per he would want a multi-year deal probably), id say do it.*

My thinking is the Indians pick up Byrd’s 2008 option and the Braves trade for him. That way it’s only a one year thing.

Remember, Paul Byrd loves the Braves. He took something like 2 years and 10 million to pitch for the Braves a few years ago when the Phillies were offering Byrd 3 years and 20 million that same offseason.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

October 17, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, how far did Adam Dunn’s game-winning homer fly that he hit off the last pitch Bob Wickman ever threw as a Brave? I would have though that ball went at least 470 feet.

By Jared

October 17, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Teams have exclusive rights to talk with their free agents for fifteen days after the World Series. The Glavine soap opera will go on even longer than I thought now.

By Lew

October 17, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Hell-And the Braves were in it until the last week. What’s your problem, @$$H#le? Someone been laughing at you?

By Lew

October 17, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I’ll agree that the Indians are less of a surprise thatn the Rockies, by a long shot, but I would imagine that even more of the “experts” picked Boston or The Yankees-even the Mets- than the Indians. Olney’s one of the better writers, though. He usually has a clue. Him and Tom Verducci.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

October 17, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

When’s the last time the Braves have made a bad trade with homegrown talent?

Now I’m no expert, but trading Jermaine Dye to the Royals for Keith Lockhart and Michael Tucker was a pretty bad trade for the Braves.

Ryan Klesko for Wally Joyner, Reggie Sanders and Quilvio Veras was no winner, either.

I’m not arguing the Braves make lots of bad trades, just pointing out a couple since the Golden Boy seems to think the Braves have never in their existence squandered homegrown talent, which anyone who can remember Brett Butler-for-Len Barker knows is a lie.

By Lee in S. GA

October 17, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Although Kyle Davies future with the Braves was all but over, the trade for the apparent short-termed Dotel was a complete waste also. Looks like the Braves could have gotten a little more for him as young as he was.

By ncscoots

October 17, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

I think DOB has hit on the small snag in the “Trade Edgar For Pitching” theory. Those contending teams that have a need for a SS, plus an ability to take on Edgar’s contract, probably can’t or won’t offer the pitching that the Braves would find equitable. Especially starters. Bonderman and Robertson do not excite, IMO. And to make things more difficult, Braves really need a righty, not a lefty (at least, named other than Johan), again, IMO.

By Lew

October 17, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Francisco’s Head-Butler was what? 25 years ago? I’m relatively certain JS had nothing whatsoever to do with that one. Considering all the homegrown kids traded in the 17 years of JS’s tenure as Braves GM, letting Wainwright, Dye and Klesko (who we got most of his best years from, anyway) go is a damn fine track record. I think the Mets trumped seventeen years of Schuerholz’s deals by dumping Kazmir and I’m sure we could mention a few more teams that blew more in one deal than JS did in all his years as GM. You’re nitpicking, Dude.

By Lew

October 17, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Lee-And just what in Davies performance, before or after the trade, leads you to think anyone would consider him worth more than a couple of used athletic supporters and a bag of batting practice balls? Even out of the “Pressure Cooker” of Atlanta, he sucked really, really bad.

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Lew, here’s something interesting on picks:

http://vegaswatch.blogspot.com/2007/09/evaluating-april-mlb-predictions.html

By Lew

October 17, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

It’s a truly great thing that Chris Woodward is doing so well in the Mexican League. Maybe he will consider playing there for the rest of his career. I sure hope he never sees the home clubhouse at Turner Field ever again. The Mexicans can have him. Trade him for an enchilada dinner and a fish taco.

By DAP

October 17, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

bring me the head of fransisco cabrarra

the braves went on to win 9 division championships after the jermaine dye trade. i dont think the trade hurt them to bad.

the braves were just so successful, that you arent going to be able to find anything that hurt them, because they always won anyways. the last two seasons are not a result of trading talent away. it MIGHT be a result of losing talent to free agency, but that is a totally different thing.

By Blue Beard

October 17, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Arrgggh!

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera, I was thinking Schuerholz’s Braves. Yes, they’ve made maybe a few trades of home-grown players that didn’t work out, so I should have phrased that better.

But it seems that it has never been Schuerholz’s overall organizational philosophy to trade home-grown talent for proven major leaguers, as Coach suggested. The only time he did it is when a young player was blocked by another player and/or when he was extremely desperate to fill a void.

By Sport's lunacy

October 17, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Another coach(Hartley)pays the price for under-achievers selected by the GM and owners. Can’t blame it on the over-priced help, can you?

By Lew

October 17, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I think Steve Phillips proved himself to be a fool, as usual. The Red Sox would only win 82 games? Damn. The Red Sox were the ONLY division winner I picked preseason. I think what that list proves is that there will always be surprises in a baseball season. No One expected the Rockies or DBacks to play as well as they did, the Mets or Astros to be that bad, or the Royals or Mariners to perform at the improved level they did. I’m not sure how many expected the Nationals to lose 120+ games. I know there was a considerable amount of egg on certain prognositcators faces on THAT prediction.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

October 17, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Lew, try reading Shaun’s statement. That’s what I was responding to, you temperamental artist, you. Even Shaun admitted he should have been more clear.

I’m no Schuerholz basher. Just helping Shaun remember a couple of wastes of the Braves’ homegrown talent. And when that’s the topic of conversation, Brett Butler’sname is just naturally gonna come up.

DAP, were you content to stop making the playoffs in 2005? Are you satisfied with the Willie Harris/Matt Diaz platoon in left? Can you say you wouldn’t have wanted Dye over Langerhans in your outfield in 2006? Check Dye’s stats for that season, then tell me the Braves made a good trade, or that the trade didn’t potentially hurt them.

By Lew

October 17, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Francisco’s Head-JS or not, the Braves have utitlized their home grown talent on their team MUCH more than they’ve dumped it in unfruitful trades. THAT was my tempermentally artistic point. Shaun can usually be clearer, but that’s a topic for another day. I don’t have the energy for another marathon and he’s being an extremely good boy today, while I am being a crotchety old b*******. Have a nice afternoon denizens. It’s only 42 degrees here today and all the pretty leaves are hitting the ground. I must go be productive. Later.

By TennesseePaul

October 17, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

I have running bets with buddies prior to the season. We submit our picks before first pitch of opening day. All submissions are final at that point. Any who, I lost the standings bets this year because of the NL. I had those Rockies in the gutter with the Giants just behind the terribly over hyped Dodgers (which will be just as bad next year if the right moves aren’t made this off-season) I had the Padres and D-Backs gunning it down the stretch with the Padres taking it by a game. I had the Brewers atop the central with the Cubbies 3rd. And of course bias put the Braves atop the East with the Phillies and Mets right on their heals.
As far as the AL goes, I had every one of those picked out. I figured the A’s would be bad, but not as bad as they were. That was mainly because I didn’t suspect the Mariners to be worth a hoot. Still don’t believe they are, but they made a good run this year. I had 4 teams’ position and record exactly right. The NL just screwed me. Everyone of them pretty much busted in the last week or so of the season.
I’ll take it though. It was a great stretch drive. Tons of teams in the race, all of the races decided in the last 10 games of the season. Good times. And while I didn’t win the standings bets I cleaned up on player predictions nearly sweeping the field with accuracy within 5%. Most of the winnings come in the form of a night of drinking, free drinking now. Lots of shots, a few dinners, and a possible trip to a Braves road game in a city other than LA or San Diego. I’m still negotiating this one. The option paid off but now some alternate clauses are being invoked to escape. We’ll see.

By DAP

October 17, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

bring me the head of fransico cabrerra

in 2006, your absolutely right, we could have used dye. our 14 consecutive streak was on the line in 2006, but why dont you look at ‘97 and ‘98. dye absolutely sucked those years. tucker was way better than dye that year, heck, even lockhart was better than dye that year. if we hadnt made the trade, who knows, maybe we never would have had a streak to defend in 2006.

we got 2 players better than dye in the trade and it was 2 years before dye did ANYTHING. the braves continued to win for 9 years in a row without him. not a bad trade.

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Lew, to be fair, I think a lot of the writers/analyst that are asked to do picks are uncomfortable with it. I mean any team could have injuries or four or five players having career years or craziness like that.

I think I’ve read that 70-80 percent or somewhere around there is about as good as it gets for any projection system.

I think we should view picks like we view weather forecast—we shouldn’t expect them to always be 100 percent accurate. As long as the writers/analysts can give a reasonable explanation and are mostly right, I don’t think we should throw it back in their faces too much.

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera, Dye hit .254/.317/.486. Braves leftfielders hit .291/.350/.439 and were cheaper. Sure Dye could have brought some more power but the Braves got more bang for the buck and still got solid production from the LF they had.

By keylargo25

October 17, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

Watched 1992 Game 7 NLCS vs. Pittsburg today and 15 years dulls the memories.

Things that time had changed in my head.

Barry Bonds was a Kelly Johnson body type.
I had basically forgotten how nasty Doug Drabek was. He outpitched Smoltz. Francisco Cabrerra had 13 ABs in 1992. David Justice threw out a runner at home or none of this would have happened. How VERY close Bream was to being out.

By Braves4Ever

October 17, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Bream’s time running could be timed with a sun dial, why was he the one running anyway. Wasn’t Gant or someone available to pinch run?

By Steamboat

October 17, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

From the NY Times, May 1997, just for some perspective on the Dye trade.

*When it comes to additions, the Braves can boast about a couple of their own. Known for their sizzling starting pitching during their championship seasons, the Braves have a pair of new outfielders who have spiced up their offense, much to the surprise of critics of the trade Schuerholz made with Cleveland a week before the season started.

When the Braves sent David Justice and Marquis Grissom to the Indians, some people said Kenny Lofton was not enough to offset their loss. But Lofton has made Braves fans forget Grissom, and a trade Schuerholz made two days later has almost made them forget Justice.

Michael Tucker was the first-round selection of the Kansas City Royals in the 1992 draft, the 10th pick over all. A left-handed-hitting outfielder, he batted .260 in two-thirds of a season with the Royals in 1995 and .260 in ‘96. He took a .395 average into the Braves’ game last night.

”The trades were made in lock step with one another,” Schuerholz said. ”When we made the first deal, we already had been working on the second deal. Knowing we wouldn’t have David Justice and we’d have two young right-handed hitters to play right field, we wanted to come up with a left-handed hitter.”

Tucker, 25, was the player the Braves aimed for when they formulated their trading strategy. Instrumental in the Tucker phase of the planning was Brian Murphy, whom Schuerholz hired as a scout for the Royals in 1983, then hired as a special assistant in Atlanta last winter.

”Brian was very high on Michael Tucker and very strong in our attempt to get him,” Schuerholz said.

The Braves gave the Royals Jermaine Dye, one of their young right-handed-hitting outfielders. ”He’s got a good stroke,” Cox said of Tucker. ”He has a real good chance to be a .300 hitter.”*

By ssiscribe

October 17, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Keylargo: Gant already was in the game; nearly won it with a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth, a screamer to left that Bonds caught just shy of the track to bring in Pendleton from third with the first run.

Only players left on the bench were Cabrera and Javy Lopez (added to the postseason roster after his September callup, he caught the end of Game 6, the big blowout win by Pittsburgh that forced Game 7).

Justice made an awesome throw (eighth inning, right?) to cut down a runner at the plate. That play always is forgotten about, but it was crucial, of course.

Hartley just got fired; Waddell should’ve been the first one shown the door.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By mo in the boonies

October 17, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Personally, I’m withholding any picks for SP or LF until the Mitchell report comes out. I’d like to know who has been using, and who hasn’t. Also saw on tv this morning that a Pharmancy in New Jersey (Mob related?) had been raided by the Feds for stockpiling the makings for steroids. The Feds were carrying out boxes of info etc from the Pharmacy, and stated that the Steroid investigation was more wide spread then they had thought. Doesn’t sound too good for any of the sports.

By keylargo25

October 17, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

ssiscribe

Gant really ripped that ball in the ninth but it only got about 20 feet off the ground. And you are right about Justice’s throw in the top of the eighth.

Braves4ever

The annoucncers talked about who was left on the bench. Hunter (Brian) could have run but they saved him to pinch hit. Lopez was no improvement.

And finally the Braves were blown out 13 to 5 in game six. Losing pitcher Tom Glavine - eight runs in the second.

By ssiscribe

October 17, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Oops, meant to direct the Gant note to Braves4Ever, not Keylargo. My bad.

Yeah, Justice throw was in the eighth, gunned down Orlando Merced at the plate on a hit by Jeff King. Steve Avery pitched in relief in that game, and Jeff Reardon got the win.

(My, oh my, I forgot about Reardon, who would serve up that gopher ball to Ed Sprague five days later in Game 2 of the World Series, over a leaping Deion Sanders at the wall).

And until I looked at the box score, I forgot how dire extra innings would’ve been: In the ninth, Brian Hunter hit for Rafael Belliard, who came in to play second base. The Braves were out of infielders, meaning Hunter would’ve played left and Gant would’ve come back in to play second (where he played in late 1987 and 1988, before his ill-fated move to third base that resulted in him being demoted all the way to lower Single-A to learn the outfield in 1989).

Man, how time flies. I skipped a history midterm in college to wait outside the old stadium for tickets after the series returned to Atlanta, hoping I wouldn’t have to see Game 7 (since Glavine was on the hill in Game 6). Of course, Glavine got lit up like Red Dawn in Game 6, setting the stage for Sid Slid (and the Wurlitzer for Skip, which is beautiful, Lew!).

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By joebrave

October 17, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Just a post,is it me Or IS TERRENCE MOORE ONE $hitstirring Sonofabeech!!!god when will that guy get a life

By Scotch

October 17, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

joebrave

It is not you. Moore thrives on pi$$ing off Atlanta sports fans. The Falcons are too easy of a prey. He had to dig some to bring up the 1993 Braves.

By beachcomber

October 17, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Sorry to post something very unrelated to the above but just got off the phone with someone very close to the Braves and the word is a Glavine deal will be announced either in the gap between ALCS and WS or right after.

Only one source but one I’ve seldom known to be wrong about such things.

That being said, we still need another arm. While I am an admirer of Mike Hampton who knows what he will contribute in ‘08.

By ssiscribe

October 17, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Without reading the column, just the tagline that the Braves “choked” in 1993 is just plain wrong.

That team played .743 baseball over its final 74 games (55-19). It simply ran out of gas in the postseason.

I’m already mad about the Thrashers firing Hartley (Waddell should’ve been canned first), so I think for the sake of my blood pressure I’ll skip reading Moore’s crap for now. There are Braves teams that have choked, most definitely. The 2000 team that stumbled down the stretch then embarrassed themselves against the Cards. The 1983 team that coughed up the 6 1/2-game lead in mid-August.

Do I even dare mention late October 1996?

But 1993? Nope, Terry, you are as wrong as ever on that one, pal.

—30—

By Drummerdad

October 17, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’m in here from time to time. But don’t have much time to write. Graduated #1 son from high school this summer and then had to deal with my elderly parents getting sick and needing non stop care for the last 2 months. We’ve basically opted to set up a nursing home at their home rather than moving them. They’re doing much better now, but it’s taken a full court press. My wife and I have to take turns spending approximately half the week at their place across the state.

As for baseball, I’m tired of the perpetual media orgasm over the Yankees and Red Sox. It’s been going on increasingly since the Yankees re-emerged in ‘96. Time for them to go back into hibernation for a decade or so. I really dig the potential for a Rockies/ Indians WS. New faces and motivated players.

Braveswise, I hope they sign Glavine. It’d be good for the organization. Good night, if they can bring back Phil Niekro, they can bring back TG. Center field: Tori Hunter sounds good to me. Somebody reliable.

Also, can you tell me what the status of Rich Harden of the A’s is? Seems like I heard that he might be available this offseason.

So Lew in the words of Eyore, “Thanks for noticing me”.

By Jim

October 17, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I just read your comment about the Braves having impressive pitching in the pipeline. Most of those pitchers are at A-ball or lower. Let’s hope that they continue to develop and reach the high minors with the same kind of promise, but until a pitcher gets to AA or AAA, it is very difficult to evaluate just how well they can be expected to perform in the major leagues. The pitchers “in the pipeline” right now are Jo Jo Reyes, Bennett, Lerew?, and perhaps the kid that pitched the 6 no-hit innings in the AAA playoffs. Bennet may turn into a productive bottom of the rotation starter, but he is not considered a big prospect. Reyes probably has a higher ceiling and is major league ready — let’s hope he puts it together next year, as his last few starts showed some promise. Lerew has never shown consitency to indicate that he will be a productive major leaguer. Until we get a better read on the pitchers in the low minors, there is not a Cole Hamels/Matt Cain caliaber prospect in our system.

Similarly Cody Johnson, Heyward, and even Schaffer have to show that what they accomplished in the low minors will translate into similar productivity at the higher levels before we can become too excited. Look a Kala Kaihue and Campbell for proof.

By ncscoots

October 17, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

beachcomber, that would be a pretty neat trick, considering Glavine is still a member of the Mets’ 40-man and hasn’t yet become a free agent.

By DAP

October 17, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

i thought we had to wait until AFTER the world series to even talk to glavine?

By ncscoots

October 17, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t give up on Kaaihue just yet. Struggling at the next level after an in-season move isn’t unheard of, and he only had 100+ AB at AA. He struggled early this year at MB, too, but caught up and raked there before the move up. Might want to give him a couple hundred AB in Pearl before tossing him to the curb.

By beachcomber

October 17, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

NC - Just telling you what a source much, much closer to the Braves than either you or I told me.

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Scott Thorman has always struggled in his first crack at certain levels but turned it around rather dramatically in his second crack at it.

In Rookie ball, he hit .227, .312, .351.

At A the next year, he hit .294, .363, .489.

In his first crack at A+, he hit ..243, .308, .391.

In his second crack at A+, he hit .299, .349, .461.

In his first crack at AA, he hit .252, .328, .406.

In his second crack at AA, he hit .306, .360, .506

In his first crack at AAA, he hit .276, .313, .438.

In his second crack at AAA, he hit .298, .360, .508.

In his first crack at the Majors, he has hit .222, .260, .407.

Maybe next year in his second crack at the majors, he turns it around the way he always has in the minors.

Don’t know where he is gonna get at bats though with Tex here. But maybe the Braves use those trends to convince another team to trade some other decent but disappointing young player to the Braves. Or maybe he is just a throw in in any Renteria trade that happens and helps grease those wheels.

I do think Thorman will never become an everyday player. But I think he can become a valuable power bat off the bench for some team. Maybe he’s just the next Wes Helms.

I think he could end up being about as good as Mike Jacobs is with the Marlins.

By Ray

October 17, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Dave, delayed response to your comments regarding the ratings. You are right. It doesn’t effect us the general public. Which is a good thing. In regards to the watch Renteria and Tigers, do they have what we want and need. One of their starters and possibly one of their young arms. Do they have someone that could be a potential starter in our rotation in a year or two? The Kid Clayton Rapada is a tall lanky lefthander that is young and green as a reliever. They got him from the Cubs in a trade. Very familiar with the kid and the family. Could be a 3rd player named.

By Shaun

October 17, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Drummerdad, is .271/.324/.469 from a 31-year-old considered reliable? Or is .271/.324/.469 for a 31-year-old for at least $15 million for five or six years a good idea?

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

Why are they covering this Joe Torre thing like the President and his Cabinet are huddling together to determine whether we invade another country? Ridiculous. Does ESPN know how much the rest of the country could care less.

If I were Steinbrenner, I would not fire Torre. I would come out of those meetings and say we are willing to keep Joe but keep Joe with only a $1 mil contract. I am tired of paying this senseless $7 mil contract to a manager when I can go out and pay someone else 10% of that $7 mil and probably get the same results: 90 wins with the highest payroll and a first round exit.

Don’t fire him. Just publicly ask Joe how much he really wants to manage. Is it about managing at this point or is it about the money?

By journalist jimmy smith

October 17, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

in and out burger tonight, drummerdad? journalist must avoid sweets since carolina lady and flbravesgirl may suspect jimmy smith of eating the cake intended for carolina lady. not so. only crumbs were found in the box. wait?! could blue worms be the culprit(s)? highly suspicious.

and byron leftwich will quarterback the falcons next week. petrino has a much quicker trigger than bobby cox.

and speaking of trigger … wonder if the trigger was squeezed today on the double dime ranch? dead animals. hides. autographs. c.o.d.

and what would an autographed turtle bring?

now, baseball … go indians!

By David O'Brien

October 17, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

mo in the boonies, you can’t wait until the mItchel report comes out to construct a team, because we have no idea when it’s coming out….

anyone who still dwells on the Dye trade — that’s such a reach to suggest the Braves screwed that up. Folks, it was 10 years between the season he played for the Braves and the career-best season he had with the White Sox in 2006. TEN YEARS.

In the interim, he went through two other teams, KC and Oakland (the latter considering him pretty much a bust considering the huge contract they gave him).

In his first two seasons away from Atlanta, he hit a combined .235 with 12 homers and 45 RBIs in 477 at-bats for the Royals. That’s TWO SEASONS.

Granted, he had 110 homers and over 400 RBIs over the next four seasons (1999-2002) with KC and Oakland, but really, are those such great numbers in that era?

Then he hit .172 (yes, .172) with four homers in 65 games (221 at-bats) for Oakland in 2003.

Now, let’s assume the Braves had kept him all those years. Lord knows what they would have been paying him at that point. Would anyone have suggested they continue to keep paying him big bucks after that .172 season with four homers in 2003?

He then “bounced back” in 2004 with a full season in which he hit .265 with 23 homers, 80 RBIs, a .329 OBP and 128 strikeouts in 532 at-bats.

In other words, inferior numbers to what Francoeur put up in his first full season, except for the OBP. And definitely inferior numbers to what Francoeur put up this season.

The A’s paid him just about $30 million over the 2002-04 seasons. Not a good return on that investment.

He took a huge pay cut to $4 mill after that deal, and in 2005 with the White Sox, he hit .274 with 31 homers, 86 RBIs and a .333 OBP in his 10th season. That’s his TENTH SEASON.

By Steamboat

October 17, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

Anybody agree that Manny had one to the shoulder blades coming last night, after that display on the HR? In the visitors’ park, behind in the game and the series, and he’s gonna act like he just won the WS. Bush league.

Of course, Cleveland was smart not to respond in an LCS game… just win, baby… but I wouldn’t be surprised to see this revisited next year.

By jbutler

October 17, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

ssscribe Its ridiculous to fire Hartley. The same thing happened with the Avalanche and they regretted it…big time. He’ll land on his feet somewhere- but in the meantime- you get an interim GM/coach. Great fit.

He’s just a decent guy - its got to be a drag to get fired.

By brent a.

October 17, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Curt Schilling. Braves can’t hit him.

By flange1

October 17, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Wanted to give you a REM album review from a long time fan! GRINCH, PLEASE SKIP THIS REVIEW!

Picked it up yesterday and Ella Guru.

The album is quite good. I am not thrilled with the song selection but still what is here is good.

The band is very different now than what they used to be.

Ella Guru has a German DVD of a young REM performing on TV. I suggest all of you that did not see them in the 80’s or early 90’s, go check it out.

Back then they were about energy, passion and Michael’s strange vocals.

Now they are much better musicians and Michael is actually singing the same lyrics night after night.

Some of the enerygy is gone but hey we are all a bit older! I have not watched the DVD, but I am sure it will be fun.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that all REM fans buy the CD/DVD. If you are not a fan, don’t start with this one.

Hibtone forever!

By flange1

October 17, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I agree that the Tigers/Renteria talks might happen. I wonder if a third team like the A’s could get involved with Tiger’s prospects going to Oakland Blanton/Haren coming to the ATL.

I saw a rumor today that the Cards were looking to extend Eckstein. That would make sense to me.

By Braves4Ever

October 17, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Key Largo and SSScribe thanks for the response. I couldn’t remember all the details. I just remembered that Bream was slow enough to finish third in a race with a pregnant lady and thought they surely had someone who could have run for him.

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

I am so tired of this endless Kobe Bryant drama. But if I am the Hawks I trade every single player on the team for Kobe. I might go to my first Hawks game ever if they did.

Don’t know much about hockey at all but didn’t Hartley win the division last year? And he gets fired after 6 games? That sounds like a bum deal.

How is Isiah Thomas still employed? For the love of God, he is terrible as a GM and terrible as a coach. Everything he touches turns to crap. He gets found guilty of sexual harrassment and ends up costing his employer tons of money because of how guilty he was and he keeps his job? What the hell is going on up there? What kind of naughty pics of Dolan does Zeke secretly have in his possession? How does David Stern not crack down on it? Well, this diehard Knicks fan is tired of it.

Who cares anyway? The NBA sucks. Hasn’t been the same for me since Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing stopped playing like warriors every night. I’ll wake up and pay attention again next April when the playoffs start.

It’s Midnight Madness time again which means that about a month from now we get to start watching basketball at its best on the college hardwoods. Can’t wait until the first time I hear Rafferty say with the kiss! Can’t wait until I wanna kill Dickie V. as he falls in love all over again with Duke.

Glad to see Nebraska fired their AD. Hope Callahan is next. They should have kept Solich. I wanna see them go back to their old running style. I hated those SOBs back then but they were so dominant and unique. Still remember that game with Tommie Frazier running around and Warren Sapp sucking wind with his tongue hanging down to his knee because he was too fat to withstand the Husker rushing attack. They lost their big recruiting and competitive advantage when they got away from playing that way. They also lost their identity. Estupido.

By Lew

October 17, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

Hell-I could tell you what you might do utilizing a 2x4 and your rectal cavity in a bit more graphic detail, but….Anyway, why don’t you think upon the concept and go take action on your self. Moron.

By Chop Chop

October 17, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

I didn’t get a chance to respond to this yesterday because, well, Mediacom is the greatest ISP in the world. The Net went down yesterday at 5 p.m. and came back on this afternoon, I guess:

By David O’Brien

October 16, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, I disagree with you on Schafer’s aggressiveness. That’s EXACTLY what you want to see, a kid willing to sacrifice his body to make a play. What do you mean, “defensive acrobatics?” Have you seen the kid play, or are you just basing that on the fact the kid ran into a wall? We’ve got folks here falling all over themselves to sign Rowand, and his running face-first into a wall is held up as one reason folks love him.

(I’ve never seen the guy play. I’m basing it on him running into a wall, DOB. If Schafer is so damn good, I’d rather that he not do things like that too often in the minors. After all, we’re going to need a centerfielder soon, right? I’d much rather have a player running into walls in Atlanta than down in podunk Rookie or A-ball. That’s all I meant by that.)

Oh, and the Falcons stink? Dude, who cares why they stink. They stink about seven years out of every 10, always have. You’re talking about a franchise that literally has never had back-to-back winning seasons. That’s astounding.

(As for this one, I care. I’ve been cursed to cheer for this damn team because, well, I cheer for all Atlanta pro teams. Football is my favorite sport. It sickens me to see the same BS year in, year out. I don’t get broken up by Falcon losses, of course. I laugh at the sorry b*******, but I will always care. When it comes to the Falcons, I’m like a Braves fan in the mid-80s. I’m just looking for the light at the end of the tunnel.

By the way, Grinch bought into Vick more than I did, so I’m quite certain that he knows what I’m talking about.)

Time for some Motorhead, Zappa, Zevon, and Van the Man. Rock on, dudes.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 17, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Wasn’t 2007 Thorman’s second crack at the bigs? In ‘06 he appeared in 55 games and had 128 AB.

He may be a productive big leaguer at some point, but probably somewhere else. I think expectations messed him up and even as a reserve or a platoon LF he’ll never pan out in a Braves uniform.

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies Yeah, you’re right. It was Thor’s second crack after a limited run in 2006 but I was just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt for the sake of looking for some optimism with him. But I do agree with you that he needs to go try to be a productive player elsewhere like Kansas City. There is no place for him here in the ATL.

By mo in the boonies

October 17, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

DOB I did hear on TV this week that the Mitchell Report would be released after the WS, but before Thanksgiving…however I heard it on ESPN so…. And if they don’t also tie in these Pharmacy lists with the “Report”, I don’t know how valid it will be. Obviously not complete.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 17, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

Thoughts on Scott Thorman, Scott was a high draft pick so he has a bigger margin of error. Organizations hate to be made to look bad. Scott does not have to prove he can play, he has to prove he cannot.

Thorman is also insurance against not being able to re-sign Tex after next year. The Braves may be hoping someone like the nationals will take a flyer on him for next year if he learns how to hit this winter. Actually, he can hit. He has just forgotten how. He has fallen in love with the big fly and thinks a 450 foot homerun counts more than one hit 380 feet.

Major league pitchers are too smart to try to throw fast balls by him when he will get himself out on change-ups and sliders.

Thinking the Mitchell Report will have any effect is like believing Barry thought it was just flax seed oil.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 17, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Also saw on tv this morning that a Pharmancy in New Jersey (Mob related?) had been raided by the Feds for stockpiling the makings for steroids.

Next thing you know you will have to say all those folks in Georgia may be rednecks….

By joebrave

October 17, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

Last night I was checkin out the differnce between Blanton,and Haren seems Blanton may just be the better pitcher..

By Falcon News

October 17, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

Leftwich is the new starter. Bet he is on crutches after the first game.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 17, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t count on Scott Thorman going anywhere. The Braves will carry a backup 1st sacker and in case you didn’t notice , Thorman made a big improvement in his defense around 1st base. Being around Mark Teixiera will only improve Thorman’s game and no one should assume that Teixeira will still be a Brave after 2008. I still can’t get the pinch hit bomb he hit on Sept. 22 against the Brewers out of my head , that thing landed in the second deck in about two seconds.

By Brown neck

October 17, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

Gil Maybe you folks in Mechanicsville(wherever the hell that is)don’t mind being referred to as “red necks” but I, for one, do! Your little “funny” was not funny.

By Inquirer

October 17, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

And “Fast Johnny”, which are you?

By BravesFanInRockies

October 17, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

If I’m reading this correctly, there’s probably a good reason the Braves might not want to purseu Cameron, at least not ight away. Would you want the Braves to in effect trade next year’s first round draft pick for him? And have to pay his salary for two or three years?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/10/more-on-free-ag.html#comments

By Red Nexus

October 17, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Using the term Red Neck could be considered a 3rd degree hate crime.

By ncscoots

October 17, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

Thorman’s history in the minors was exactly I kept saying (to my later chagrin) that he would catch up this past season, and start hitting. But his only adjustment seemed to be “swing harder”.

And the Cuban guy at AAA, Canizares, raked. Only 49 games, though, plus he’s 29 next year. But he’s a righty, and I think the Braves can use a right-handed bat on the bench.

What about him, Gil? Did you see much of him?

By mo in the boonies

October 17, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville Are all the people in Georgia Rednecks? I wouldn’t know. I wasn’t saying that everyone in New Jersey is in the mob, just that the mob has a large contingency in New Jersey, and might be involved in anything that will make big bucks.

Need to go spend the rest of the evening with the spouse, and the animals.

By TennesseePaul

October 17, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

anyone who still dwells on the Dye trade — that’s such a reach to suggest the Braves screwed that up. Folks, it was 10 years between the season he played for the Braves and the career-best season he had with the White Sox in 2006. TEN YEARS.

This is the same exact thing I say about Jason Schit. It took him 9 or 10 years before he had an OK season and then even longer before he had that 1 really good season in which Gange deservedly won the Cy.

By Tyler

October 17, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Edgar for Bonderman looks like a mighty fine deal to me. Don’t see a 3 way trade in line though, but it could happen. I personally don’t see the A’s getting rid of Haren, possibly Blanton though. Anyway, Bonderman has tremendous upside. His pre-allstar stats were 9-1, 3.48 ERA, 98 K, 100+ IP. Of course he had a bad second half, but he is only 25. We should shoot for him over Robertson for sure.

CF should go to someone within. Blanco or Schafer should shoot for it. I personally want to see Schafer play, but I know it might be too early. Use the money we didn’t use on Cameron to sign Glavine or Linebrink. Never can have enough pitching.

This could be a 08 lineup:

Escobar-SS, Johnson-2B, Chipper-3B, Tex-1B, Franceour-RF, McCann-C, B.Jones/Diaz-LF, Schafer/Blanco-CF, P

Starting Rotation:

Smoltz, Hudson, Bonderman, Glavine (OR Hampton/James), Reyes/Bennett

Bullpen:

Setup: Linebrink (Unless glavine is signed) CL: Soriano

By Hanson

October 17, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, We saw you at the show. Love your column. It says what we say.

By Efrim

October 17, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

Can’t imagine Tigers giving up on Bonderman at this stage. I can see them offering Robertson and a younger pitcher. I believe Robertson is a free agent at the end of 2008. I just don’t see the Braves trading Renteria for Robertson. I know we need pitching, but that isn’t the guy I would deal Edgar for. He just isn’t enough. Bonderman would be fantastic though. I just can’t see Blanton, Haren or Bonderman on this team next year.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 17, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

this is stinky as are several others:

By Fast Johnny

October 17, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.

oh, the humanity! throw a pity party! invite all the trolls. noble stinky. poor, sick, pervert. must be on a borrowed computer.

By David O'Brien

October 17, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

Flange and Tyler: three-way trades are a lot more common in the NBA and in blog discussions like this than in reality in major league baseball. they just don’t happen very often in baseball….

Flange, agree with your review of REM. I got it yesterday, played both CDs today (haven’t watched the DVD). I’d have chosen a few different songs (for instance Begin The Begin and Pretty Persuasion, always), but the performances were energetic, tight and excellent, everything from Orange Crush to Losing My Religion (love the sing-a-long by the Dublin crowd), What’s the Frequency Kenneth, Electron Blue, The Great Beyond, Don’t Go Back to Rockville … oh, and Bad Day, good version of that.

The drummer they had on that tour was really solid. Not Bill Berry, but solid.

By AlSharpone

October 17, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

you people are all nuts

By Fast Johnny

October 17, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

An Encore for ME??? I’ll kill you, you knuckleheads…

By Efrim

October 17, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

DOB

Did you know that the Braves lose their First Round pick next season if they sign Mike Cameron or any other type A free agent?

It is because their pick is pick # 18 and NOT in the top 15 whose picks could not be taken if they sign a Type A free agent.

I was unaware of this. It kind of changes my mind on Cameron a little bit. I don’t know, would you still sign the guy?

By joebrave

October 17, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

I see Stinky,Fast Johnny,Hell,all the same paerson no doubt,is up to his same old whining until the blog patrol censor everyone getting on his $orry kiester!!!!

By Julia

October 17, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

A few months ago I mailed a SHRIMP SAMMICH to my mama. That SHRIMP SAMMICH was lost in the mail for more than a week before it was delivered! By the time Mama got hold of that SHRIMP SAMMICH it was so r-i-p-e that it peeled the wallpaper off in Mama’s kitchen. I was reminded of this when I read about that missing r-e-d v-e-l-v-e-t c-a-k-e. I sure hope that cake turns up somewhere for that nice Carolina Lady. In the meantime, I have mailed a nice SHRIMP SAMMICH to Carolina Lady. I hope there are no delays in delivery.

By Steamboat

October 17, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

I think it’s unlikely Cameron would be among the top 20% of OF/1B/DH’s (which as I understand it is how they group players). If he is, that’s a deal breaker to me. If not, we wouldn’t lose any picks, but SD would get a supplemental pick (those are “created”, not sent from one team to another).

But from what I’ve read, the criteria for ranking players is sorta’ secretive. I’m sure JS … er, uh, FR … will have a handle on it.

Same issue probably applies with Glavine, btw.

By Savannah Guy

October 17, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

As with art, we are judged by our interpretation of GM’s, trades and stats

Bear with me on this. Over and over, for as long as I’ve been visiting this blog I’ve read negative comments and rants about our “incompetent” GM, John Schuerholz. I’ve always stopped short of chiming in because the premise just seemed so obvious and ridiculous. Yet for the entire season and continuing today we are hearing Schuerholz get zapped and rapped for “stupid trades”.

Some go endlessly on about how he is “overrated” and has “underachieved”. The negativity almost rises to the level of Cox bashing by others. So, pardon me while I state the obvious and just get part of it off of my chest. Thing is, I realize that most of you denizens don’t need to read this. For you, I’ll say as Skip might say at this point, “you are free to walk the dog”.

To the short-sighted blathering ones that nit pick and slam JS as a bad, incompetent and overrated GM that has made mostly bad trades, let me just give you some news: those characterizations are patently and diametrically opposed to the truth. They are nonsense and they are unfair. Most everyone that is actually involved in baseball knows that…but evidently some Braves fans don’t. No surprise there.

For starters, it would be a fool’s challenge to try and dispel each of those types of comments or trade judgments, player by player, year after year without citing chapter and verse. Not gonna’ happen here. This is a stat-free post. I’ll just offer my opinion, with a perspective based on undisputable evidence…his record of success. He has the W’s.

Want more evidence? He has been at the helm for more successive division championships than any other GM in baseball…or any other sport…ever. How’s that? John Schuerholz has been an excellent GM. He’s arguably one of the best, if not the best in the game. He’s Hall of Fame material. Period.

Sure, he’s made mistakes as all GM’s, CEO’s, Presidents and Kings have. For the sake of including everyone, let’s just say that all humans are imperfect and no GM in the history of any sport always made the right decision, signing or trade. Agreed? Good, we’ll continue with that overarching understanding of imperfection and humanity and baseball GM’s.

More mind-rattling facts: JS has made great decisions and great trades…bad decisions and bad trades, as many GM’s have. To judge Schuerholz or any GM you cannot look at any particular decision or trade or one or two seasons results. To be fair you look at their body of work and you look at overall results. This seems painfully obvious to most but some don’t seem to get it. Perhaps blinded by their own sense of entitlement or impatience or unreasonable expectations or whatever. To those folks I suggest video games where YOU are the instant master of all you touch. Maybe it’s a control issue…who knows.

So, back to earth and trade issues: some trades that looked good on paper didn’t pan out for one reason or another. But to say that JS should be held accountable every time a player doesn’t achieve expectations is, on its face either intellectually dishonest or patently ignorant. I’d say 99.7% of the people that make comments of that sort are simply ignorant of the realities of the business and the human factors in professional sports.

GM’s don’t work in a vacuum (as many fans do, despite their access to television, radio, magazines, books, blogs and web information). We all know a little information can be a dangerous thing. I’ll go even further and say that volumes of information can be even more dangerous…in the hands of someone that is unwilling or unable to put it all into a context of reasonable, financial, common sense and human perspective.

A GM’s job entails part finance, art and science. Good GM’s require incredible expertise and talent in each area. Remove one of those “legs” of capability and you don’t have a stool that can stand up and compete (or survive) in today’s complex marketplace of professional sports. As for “bad GM trades”, many forget before they opine that their own hindsight is brilliant where GM foresight requires, even with the utmost due diligence and scrutiny, is at best a calculated risk. There is also an acceptable, expected percentage of failure. That’s not just life in the bigs either…that’s life.

Most trades are not linear decisions, such as my shortstop for yours or “this is our budget and we’ll quit when the money runs out”. Success or failure of trades cannot be judged solely by relying on simple mathematics or even the resulting player performance after the trade for that matter. That pesky human equation kicks in every single time. Players get hurt. Players are unexpectedly mired in slumps. Some players are put into environments, roles and positions that support and foster excellence. Some players experience the opposite and, due to circumstances outside of their comfort zone they either fail or fall short of potential (try hitting in front of AJ this year or pitching too many innings from the bullpen). A myriad of factors including physical, psychological and managerial utilization play a role in trade outcomes and player performance relative to GM expectations and purchase price (rental fee).

Further, there are no absolutes in the correlation of dollars spent with actual future value on the field. Sorry, just not. Multi-million dollar racehorses that have been all but genetically engineered and immaculately trained don’t all win the Triple Crown. To expect that players operate like androids and always execute to some unrealistic expectation is extremely naïve or delusional. To expect GM’s to always have a Midas touch and control player performance is equally absurd.

Often there is “blue sky” attached to the upside potential of a player. Sometimes the sun shines bright and sometimes it just rains. Either way, to be fair, many if not most trades should NOT be judged at face value OR resulting outcomes, particularly when GM’s have a 30,000-foot view of the franchise and MLB “chess table” and we don’t.

Some trades are made for a particular roster position yet more than a few are made with a larger strategy in mind. Other trades are made with budget considerations, some for protection and some for competitive balance. Otherwise, we’d all be the Yankees and go out and get everyone we wanted regardless of price and win every World Series. Right? Uh, wrong (although the odds are obviously increased with a bigger budget).

Ok, that’s it…I’ll shut up after one last thought and a wish: All things considered and from a purely selfish business perspective, I would love to buy most baseball and GM experts for what their opinions are worth and sell them for what they think they are worth. Helluva’ margin there. If you read this entire post after being forewarned…and you already knew all of this stuff…and now you’re mad at me for wasting your valuable time…just slap your own hand.

There, I feel better now. Forgive the lack of brevity.

By TennesseePaul

October 17, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

I’m curious about the Teixeira front. I’d like to think they can extend his contract, but if not, I’m leaning towards trading him.

Crazy, I know. But a first round pick for the guy isn’t enough. And there were a lot of teams interested in him. Perhaps we can’t get quite what was traded for him, but at the same time, we could fill a few holes.
For instance, the Angels really wanted the guy. The main hang up was Stoneman. Moreno really wants to make a splash and they need a big bat to protect Vlad. If signing Tex long term doesn’t work for the Braves then perhaps shopping him to the Angels new GM for some quality pitching and Klutchman would do.

I don’t know. After reading JS’s comments on dealing with large contracts for players I started thinking about this. JS has a say on overall payroll now that he’s president. He can nix a deal he doesn’t see fit for the club and its functionality.

Hope this WS goes quick. I’d love to see a 4 game sweep with the Rox winners. Then we can get straight to the trades and rumors of trades.

By Mike

October 17, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

I don’t feel I have to wipe everybody out, Tom. Just my enemies.

By Paula D

October 17, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Jawl, I was juss thinkin about mailin somethin to that sweet Carolina Lady. Something thrice deep-fried, butter dipped, covered in powddad sugga, deep-fried again, powered sugga-ed again, then dipped in chocklit, then deep fried again, then sprinkled with powddad sugga again. The mailin box might get a bit drippy tho, jawl.

By Frank Wren

October 17, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Savannah, you have it all wrong. The complexities are such that fundamental misunderstanding of the job is not unexpected.

By brian

October 17, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

DOB- any way Wrenn could squeeze Andrew Miller or Zumaya from Detroit? The Braves had to be impressed with Miller’s performance against the Braves (I assume he is untouchable from the Tigers point of view though), but if Zumaya could be a starter I am sure he would interest the Braves as well (again may be untouchable).

Bonderman would be a good fit if Detroit eats some of the back end of the contract

By Tyler

October 17, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

I brought up trading Tex a while ago, but was completely shut down. I know it is not smart to trade him for unproven guys like Saunders, Kotchman and Santana, but we might be able to get a different deal.

If we could get a deal for Jarod Weaver then I would consider. If it included Saunders as well or Santana it would be possible. A third person would be critical though.

By Wayne in Utah

October 17, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

SG

Your statement: “this is our budget and we’ll quit when the money runs out”.

I think that is the NY City model for GM’s!

By keylargo25

October 17, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

I too brought up signing Tex last night and got no response. I think the only chance of signing him is to get it done THIS offseason. I surely don’t want another Borass client walking with virtually no compensation.

But the problem is how much will it take? AJ’s price is (we’ll see) $20M for 7 years. Borass’s price for A Rod is said to be $50M for 10 years. Where will Tex get slotted into this craziness? Let’s see you have a 27 year old Gold Glover that hit over .300 and about a RBI per game with the Braves last year. I say Borass will ask about $35M for 10 years with all the outrageous perks. The Braves need to get him signed before the season or trade him.

By Wayne in Utah

October 17, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

I understand the logic of trading Tex if we can’t sign him. I agree, if we can’t sign him this winter, it would be really difficult to get him to sign NEXT winter. Not with Boras as his agent.

Having stated that, I still don’t see the Braves trading him. I think they are playing for the big win next season. With the talk of Glavine and trading for Tex, what else could it be. No way you sign an old fart like Glavine if you are not making an all out push to the WS.

BUT, Kotchman, Saunders and Santana would be a good catch for Tex.

By Tyler

October 17, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Keylargo-Absolutely. If a deal is not made this offseason I would definetely consider offers on him. A deal to the Angels could work, like we’ve shown. Yankees have shown interest. We could use Phil Hughes, but who else? Sox could move Youlikis to 3rd and let Lowell walk for Tex. They have Lester, Buckholz, Coco Crisp, Ellsbury. Maybe some underdog teams could make a really good offer. Giants could offer Cain or Lincecum along with Winn and maybe we do it?

Still, I am looking forward to this offseason. With names like Haren, Blanton, Bonderman, Lowry, Snell floating around, I like the ideas going into the winter meetings.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 17, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Wow…. Some people really have thin skin…. Okay, no Jeff Foxworthy CDs for you… Was just poking a little fun while making a point of how wrong making a generalization based on geography. Then again, they may have a point.

On Canizares, He is a good looking young ballplayer. He has a good idea of the strike zone, decent range and speed and a good glove. His problem however is the exact opposite of Scott Thorman’s, the Braves have little invested in him so he has to prove he can play.

He could play on a lot of big league clubs right now and I would not be surprised if he got an invite to the big league camp in the spring. I would think he is playing winter ball somewhere.

By AdirondackDave

October 17, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

DOB — Do you think Renteria + Diaz + pitching prospect for Verlander might make sense for the Braves? Tigers?

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

The only problem with trying to sign Tex this winter (and I support that idea, btw) is the fact of who his agent is. Boras is notorious for encouraging his players to go to free agency to see what their true value is on the open market. He’s been burned at least once (by AJ) and I don’t see that happening again, especially by the Braves.

What kind of message would it send to Braves fans if they woke up one day and learned that their stud first baseman, the one that they’d “gutted” (not my word, but used here recently) the farm system for, had been traded away? That is not a facetious, rhetorical question, I’d really like to know how y’all feel.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 17, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

Steamboat,

Right about Cameron; whether we’d have to give the pick to SD depends on whether he’s considered in the top tier of players.

Would we have to give the Mutts a pick for Glavine? Maybe not, if they don’t offer him arbitration. The only way they would not is if they really don’t want him back, because they might be stuck with him (as the Braves were with Millwood several years ago).

Which makes me think about Paul Byrd as a less-complicated alternative. Sure, he didn’t pan out either time when Leo was around. But perhaps he and Roger could get along …

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

SG and JJS, reading back through today’s blog it appears that I’ve been accused of being perhaps a little less than honorable in my offers to accelerate the delivery of one red velvet cake to our dear friend, Carolina Lady.

Gentlemen, rest assured that I was merely trying to extend my courtesies to her as you were both unavailable. Red velvet cake has a very, very short shelf life and I was merely interested in ensuring that said cake was delivered in the finest, freshest condition possible.

Please step in to Klobber’s Knob Creek saloon and allow me to buy you a drink of bourbon to discuss this matter further.

By Braves Fan 79

October 17, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Funny how now u acclaim Escobar so much now when u and everyone else was saying at the beginning of the year how he was unproven…blablabla. I said on this blog right here back in march, april and may that us having woodcrap and orr on the roster over escobar was a MAJOR mistake!
Face it….u could write a whole column to all the doubters DOB and title it: ESCOBAR…the REASON WE MISSED THE PLAYOFFS!!
U add escobar insead of woodcrap and we keep up our momentium instead of sinking back to .500 when chipper got hurt early on. That…my friend was the difference!
man i hate woodcrap…piece of crap ex met trash….

By Braveheart

October 17, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

DOB — Do you think Renteria + Diaz + pitching prospect for Verlander might make sense for the Braves? Tigers?

Sense for the Braves? Oh, hell’s yes.

Sense for the Tigers? Only if they are suffering from dementia.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 17, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

chrisklob,

Great point. It would send a terrible message to the faithful. More important, it would be a slap to Chipper and Smoltz, who have left a lot of money on the table in recent years, hoping they can win it all again before they retire.

It won’t happen, not as long as Bobby and JS have anything to say about it.

By Jared

October 17, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

Trading Teixeira is a non-starter.

The World Series hasn’t ended yet (or ever started) and we get this already. Looks like another full offseason of ridiculous trade suggestions where no Braves’ player is too sacred to suggest trading.

Let me attempt to save some of the drama:

The Braves are not going to trade John Smoltz, Chipper Jones, Tim Hudson, Jeff Francoeur, Brian McCann or Mark Teixeira. They are not going to release Mike Hampton or find a team willing to take on his 14.5 million salary in 2008. They are not going to move Chipper Jones to first base. The Braves will not acquire Carl Crawford or Johan Santana this offseason. Bobby Cox will not be fired to make room for Joe Torre or Joe Girardi.

By keylargo25

October 17, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Tyler and Wayne

Thanks for the support tonight on the sign/trade of Teixeira. I just think this crazy agent is going to cost us another player with his absurd demands. I hope JS is remembered for his refusal to even respond to the jackass. That’s the only way he is going to be slowed down from driving the cost so high it will ruin the game.

On another subject I have lived down here in South Florida long enough to remember the Tigers GM as the former Marlins GM. Dave Dombrowski is without peer when it comes to judging talent. The Marlins are still bringing up prospects he acquired when dismantling the Marlins after their last World Championship. Frank Wren BEWARE of trading with this man.

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

SG, just finished your tome and have to agree with you. Amazing what JS has done for this franchise over the years. Yet, his detractors would crucify him for the smallest mistake, which in my estimation, have been few.

I remember a phrase used in my college economics class, which incidentally was the class that I hated the most and mostly because of this concept. That phrase was Ceteris paribus and was Latin for “all else being equal”. We would be evaluating graphs and trying to determine how price or supply or demand or whatever would react when one, and only one, of those other factors changed. It was all theoretical mumbo jumbo to me and I hated it so much because virtually nothing in life is static. We don’t live in a vacuum and GM’s don’t operate in a vacuum either. Things happen, guys get hurt, or they hit a wall, or hate their new city/team/manager/mistress or whatever.

To say that JS hasn’t been a great GM for this franchise is selling him short. To say that he’s been a bad GM is just plain idiotic.

By Jared

October 17, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

P.S.: Bennett is not a viable option for the starting rotation. He is a career minor league journeyman Please stop mentioning him based on nothing but a knee-jerk reaction to one (or two?) good but not great irrelevant starts at the end of the regular season.

By keylargo25

October 17, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Jared

How do you like what we got for AJ?

Did you ever wish we had traded him when it was obvious we could not sign him?

I would much rather trade Tex before the trading deadline that get a draft pick in 2009.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 17, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

On Teixeira, Sometimes you just have to enjoy what you have while you have it and not obsess about tomorrow. I say ride him like a cheap mule all the way to the World Series then move on. Great if we re-sign him but if not oh well, it was a great ride.

SG Spot on with your observation on someone that will be regarded as one of the greatest GMs in sports.

By Salty

October 17, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

chrisklob I certainly wouldn’t question your intentions re: cake delivery to CL. Besides, everyone knows Knob Creek and red velvet cake don’t go together!?!

By AdirondackDave

October 17, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

Chrisklog — 50M/year for A-rod may be Boras’ dream deal but it’s highly unlikely to happen. 35M/year maybe. Andruw will probably get 18, maybe 20M although there are other competing CF options. Boras may/will ask the moon for Tex but he looks like 22M x 7 to me and I think JS will try very hard to find that money. Tex is absolutely elite but there are plenty of productive star firstbasemen. I doubt Tex will leave Atlanta for 1-2M more per year. He will likely value all the other strong offense surrounding him here.

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

keylargo, I can’t stand Boras and think he is horrible for the game. But, and it’s a BIG BUT, his job is to represent his clients and get them as much money as he can. He is extraordinarily good at that. You don’t have to like it but you have to recognize it and respect it.

I look at him and the Yankees in much the same light. They both operate within the parameters set out by MLB. Many people that hate the Yankees hate them because of their inflated payroll and the fact that they are in the post-season every year, presumably because of said payroll. But they don’t break any rules. They’ve just figured out a way to make more money than anyone else so they can afford that ridiculous payroll.

Part of me wishes that Atlanta had a similar payroll. I think it would might be a lot easier on the folks on this blog because we wouldn’t be parsing about whether or not the team can afford this C Level player or not. Hell no, we’d be drinking off the top shelf every night! But since our ownership has been so sucky the past few years we’ve been stuck with a very average payroll.

By Jared

October 17, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

I would much rather trade Tex before the trading deadline that get a draft pick in 2009.

If the Braves are out of it at the trading deadline in 2008, trade Teixeira. If not, keep him and get the draft pick. Billy Beane uses the draft picks to keep the low-budget A’s in contention most years, so what’s the problem?

By The Grinch

October 17, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

(Kicks open door to saloon) Klob, I’ve had a long, LONG day and I’ve just spent the past three hours drinkin’ Old Smuggler and water. Set me up with somthin’ that makes the bull%$#& go away, and a rosy glow of benevelence descend upon my conciousness…%^$# that, hit me with some tequilla. :-)

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Salty, greetings my friend. Don’t you know that Knob Creek goes with everything?

Gil,ride him like a cheap mule all the way to the World Series then move on. Ditto, that’s my feeling too. Finding productive first basemen isn’t that hard, even guys that can rake like Tex.

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

keylargo, if JS had a crystal ball that could definitively shown that AJ was going to tank at the end of 06 and all of this year, then yes, he absolutely should have traded him. But as good as JS is, I don’t think he can accurately predict the future. Remember, the AJ trade rumors started before the trade deadline in 06 and he had 51 HR and 128 RBI the previous year. JS would have been lynched if he had traded AJ then.

Remember, hindsight is 20-20.

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

I’ve just spent the past three hours drinkin’ Old Smuggler.

Grinch, do you have a death wish? You gotta start treating your liver, stomach and head better. Have a shot of Patron, first one’s on me and I’m pouring doubles.

By TennesseePaul

October 17, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

no Braves’ player is too sacred to suggest trading.

Great point on Teixeira. He is too sacred to suggest trading. I mean, after 2 months of him on the team he’s an immovable fixture… the face of the franchise.

Presonally I wouldn’t be upset about moving Tex as long as the return was favorable.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 17, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Please step in to Klobber’s Knob Creek saloon and allow me to buy you a drink of bourbon to discuss this matter further.

journalist will bring dessert. wait! no! oh, the humanity!

By keylargo25

October 17, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

chrisklob

I just don’t want to have nothing to show for the 5 guys we sent to Texas. My number 1 hope is to sign Tex, but if Borass comes up with a $35M demand, just like he did this spring with AJ, then it’s time to start listening to offers. Remember, that we should be able to get a package of players somewhat like the one we sent to Texas or a couple of established major leaguers.

I wish I could come up with a really good analogy but the best thing I can come up with is would you rather have the players back we sent to Texas or a draft choice in 2009.

By Wayne in Utah

October 17, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

Jared: We are not really pushing a trade for Tex, but just saying if we KNEW going in that he wasn’t going to sign, you have two options.

I think I basically stated in my second paragraph that I am certain the Braves will “ride him like a cheap mule” as Gil states. BUT, if I knew he wouldn’t sign, then I would be tempted to go the trade route. Then again, I am not the GM.

So, we are not really throwing out “ridiculous” trade scenarios. We are just talking about what could be done with Tex if we couldn’t sign him this winter. Besides, where does it say we can’t speculate on the blog?

:-)

PS: I haven’t read anybody tonight suggesting that Bennett is a legit starter. Just a potential #5 man. One out of 4-5 possibles on the 2008 Braves. He missed all of 2006 to injury, and was brought along slowly this year. His ball does have some movement though, and that’s gotta count for something???

BTW, can we trade Woodward, Harris and Villarreal for Carl Crawford?

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this

jjs, perhaps you could bring some cheesecake.

By chrisklob

October 17, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

keylargo, would you trade Tex next july if the Braves look like the best team in baseball and he’s having a career year?

I’m not saying they’re going to be the best team, just asking a hypothetical question.

By uga-brave

October 17, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

which one is not like the others? don waddell, billy knight, rich “blue skies” mckay,and JS. unfortunately the one who just semi-retired.

cant believe phillips arena opened in 99 and neither the thrashers nor the hawks have ever won a playoff game, thats eight frekin years.

as for blue skies mckay, he must of really racked up some serious home depot shopping bonus points to still be employed. bad drafts, abysmal free agent signings and all he does is whistle through the graveyard. good luck arthur, you have just lost the city. well not that you really ever had it. time to write another full page apology add.

By Jared

October 17, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

Great point on Teixeira. He is too sacred to suggest trading. I mean, after 2 months of him on the team he’s an immovable fixture

Never said that.

the face of the franchise.

Go here:

http://www.atlantabraves.com/

Take a look at that banner up at the top. There are five players on it. After you see who those five players are, scroll down and on the right side you might see an ad that says: “Braves fanfest. January 12-13, 2008. Georgia world congress center, Atlanta, Georgia.” Take a look at who is on the ad.

I think the Braves are at least trying to make Teixeira a, not the, face of the franchise.

By BOBO

October 17, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

Just read that Torii Hunter said he would like to play in Washington or with the Braves.He said he had talked to his wife about playing in Atlanta and helping the city. Man that would be great and maybe Terence Moore would attend more games. MLB.COM

By flbravesgirl

October 17, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

Rough day, Grinch? :-( I’d offer a cake to cheer you up but there seems to be a problem with delivery. Let me know if you need a shoulder to lean on, amigo.

By keylargo25

October 17, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

chrisklob

At least you asked a win/win question to put me on the spot!

That really made me think and I probably would keep him under those circumstances. Winning the WS is the ultimate goal….but I had to think about it LOL

By keylargo25

October 18, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this

chrisklob

but on the other hand if they were 3 back and lacked that “spark”, would you trade him for a solid #1?

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this

Klobber Well that’s a mighty fine offer…doubles all around my friend. The top shelf Knob Creek special. Ahh, what the hey…one for the road before last call. Set me up with a Knob…neat if you would be so kind sir. Pull me a pint o’ Harp as chaser.

Back in the day we used to refer to last call as the “pairing off ceremony”. Pour Braveheart and Salty another one over there too. And Gil…maybe a long”neck” Bud back? And Wayne of the Utah…a Rox celebration triple if you would…with a Coors back.

Uh oh…Now I see that Grinch just kicked the saloon door open and waltzed in. We gonna have to have a “top shelf intervention” here. No more rot gut. Get him a chilly Cuervo. Just don’t let anybody put REM on the jukebox while Grinchy is hangin’…might get ugly.

Now on to serious bid’ness…Klobber, I would trust you with opines, fairness, good wrist (heavy pours), secure cash and gold delivery and all other manner of good will and composure. But with a Red Velvet cake baked by the flbravesgirl intended for Carolina Lady, well…You’re only flesh and bone buddy. A man’s gotta do…maybe we’ll need to make the final run together so that we get to share the…uh, get the cake safely to Carolina. Hey, she’s been stirrin’ the pots too. Could be a profitable trip. I’ll ride shotgun.

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

ESCOBAR…the REASON WE MISSED THE PLAYOFFS!!

Don’t really agree with that Bravesfan79.

The Braves were 35-39 when Escobar started this year. 49-39 when Escobar did not start this year.

Now obviously their poor record in his starts had little to do with Escobar …. sort of. I say sort of because if you recall many of his starts were filling in for Edgar Renteria.

The Braves were 66-56 when Renteria started. 18-22 when Edgar did not start.

So, you could honestly almost say that the Braves did not make the playoffs because Escobar was starting many of those 40 games Edgar missed and not Renteria.

Around the infield, the Braves were 72-60 when Chipper started, 12-18 when Chipper did not start.

The Braves were 66-61 when Kelly Johnson started. 18-17 when Kelly Johnson did not start.

What helps your argument is that the Braves were 7-14 when Woodward started, 5-4 when Orr started, 4-7 when Martin Prado started.

Records when positional players are playing are not that indicative of a player’s worth or anything but I’m just saying that their 35-39 record when Escobar was starting compared to the 72-60 with Chipper, the 66-61 with KJ, and the 66-56 with Edgar does not indicate that the Yunel was the reason they did not make the playoffs.

With that being said, Yunel did nothing but play like a winner and do things to make this team a winner.

The losing record in the games he started reflect more upon the poor pitching the Braves were getting when Edgar was hurt.

Or does it further highlight the importance of Edgar Renteria to this ballclub in that as good as Escobar was, Edgar is even better or more valuable in making his team win?

The real reason the Braves did not make the playoffs is quite simple. The Braves were 75-58 when Hudson, Smoltz, Buddy, James, and Davies started. The Braves were only 9-20 when their fifth starters started with an ERA in the high 6. Even worse, you could say they were 16-30 with their fifths if you include Kyle Davies with them. That right there was your shot at the postseason. A .500 record in those games gives this team 91 wins and another division title and another playoff berth.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

Wayne, others: Feel free to speculate all you want about trading Tex. But know this: The Braves aren’t even considering trading Teixeira if he doesn’t sign an extension this winter.

And there is very little, if any, reason to believe he would do that. That’s not what Boras does with his clients. He takes almost all of them to free agency, and especially the marquee guys. Almost without exception, they go to free agency.

I’ll repeat: The Braves are not considering trading him this winter. Not going to happen. Period.

But feel free to speculate. No harm. It’s a long winter, after all. Have fun with that.

Just know he’s going to be the Braves’ opening day first baseman.

Now, if they were to fall hopelessly out of the race early next season, would they consider trading him if they didn’t think they could re-sign him? Of course they would.

But only in that scenario, which is not one they’re planning heavily for, I’d imagine.

Just one last time, so we’re clear: Teixeira’s not going to be traded this winter.

Oh, and the new Springsteen album gets better with every listen. As do the new records by Thurston Moore and Black Francis.

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

as for blue skies mckay, he must of really racked up some serious home depot shopping bonus points to still be employed. bad drafts, abysmal free agent signings and all he does is whistle through the graveyard. good luck arthur, you have just lost the city. well not that you really ever had it. time to write another full page apology add.

fully agree with you ugabrave about mckay. completely horrible job he has done. i hope people are seeing now that mike vick covered up alot of the sins of blank, mckay, mora, and the rest of the horrible players on that team. unfortunately, he was quite adept at covering up his own sins as well until his sins became too many and too hideous to cover up anymore.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

Oh, and someone asked, so I’ll answer: No, it does not make sense for the Tigers to trade Verlander for Renteria, Diaz and a prospect.

By The Grinch

October 18, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

Back again…damn those bathroom stalls. :-) Klob, Patron is too smooth for the likes of me; I might get the wrong idea about the world. SG is right; some chilled Cuervo and I can just act like a normal a-hole.

FBG; my line is always open (hint, hint).

And my taste for red velvet cake…seems like we’ve got quite a confict of interest brewing here…

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

SJA and joebrave in the house…and JJS too? The saloon is getting some action tonight. Got an early morning so I’ll have to drink and run…but I’ll sleep better just knowing you guys are in good company and the sheriff has run the trolls out of town. One did himself in? Or did SJA just make it look self inflicted?

Go ahead and keep my tab open…buy the boys a round on me…be back tomorrow to hear the stories and maybe help start some new ones.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

I’m sure Torii would like to play in Atlanta … if the Braves would like to pay him about $75 million over the next five years.

Then I guess you could just trade Schafer in a year or two, right? And not spend that $15 mill a year on pitching, but on paying the next center fielder even more than you paid the last one?

No, thanks. Not unless the payroll’s going to $120 mill.

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

keylargo, honestly I wasn’t trying to put you on the spot but make you think about another circumstance that you may not have thought about before. And I seriously doubt anyone here would trade Tex under those circumstances.

You’re absolutely right in that winning the WS is the ultimate goal. While the journalists and pundits all want to evaluate the “winners” and “losers” of trades immediately, I honestly don’t think that it’s possible to do that. Sometimes it literally takes years to determine who “won” when making a trade.

In the next five years or so a lot will unfold. The trade we made for Tex will be better defined. We got Tex and Mahay. If we win a WS next year and both guys are gone afterwards does that mean that the trade for him was a good one? The answer to that is an easy “yes”. If we don’t win a WS next year and both guys are gone does it mean that the trade was bad? I think the answer to that lies in what the five players given up for them have done. If none of those five pan out as productive major leaguers then the answer may still be “yes” because at least JS tried to win a WS.

If the Braves are thick in next year’s race, trade Tex in the middle, and don’t win, then perhaps the answer is “no” to the above question, unless the return they get in trade is just ridiculous.

Hey, I’m glad I made you think about that question. Like I said, it wasn’t to put you on the spot, but make you think about different scenarios.

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

Great. Saw the photo ops of the star acquizition. I’m still not impressed.

Trading Teixeira is a non-starter. The World Series hasn’t ended yet (or ever started) and we get this already. Looks like another full offseason of ridiculous trade suggestions where no Braves’ player is too sacred to suggest trading.
Great point on Teixeira. He is too sacred to suggest trading.
Never said that.
Must have misunderstood that then.

The entire premise is about watching him walk for a draft pick. He’s been on the team 2 months. I don’t see him as a fixture just yet.
Sign a contract extension and then I’ll see him as a fixture. Right now, he’s been here 2 months and is looking at next November for free agency with Boras leading the way. If an extension isn’t possible, as in, the contract Boras is pushing is “obnoxious” as JS calls it, then trade him for a few players we could use. I’m sure they’ll be able to print up new pamphlets with different photos.

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

keylargo but on the other hand if they were 3 back and lacked that “spark”, would you trade him for a solid #1?

Probably not. Being 3 back isn’t that much, especially before the trade deadline. But a lot depends on that. Are we desperate for a #1 next year? At this point we have Smoltz, Hudson, James, Hampton (I know, I know), Reyes, possibly Glavine, possibly others in the rotation or in consideration for it. If those guys are solid, then no, you don’t trade him. If we have SP issues this year AND Tex isn’t viewed as the lynch pin of our offense then maybe we do. If that #1 is going to be under Braves control for several years to come will figure into the equation too. Too many variables in that scenario to say yea or nay.

If they were 13 out, then that would be another story.

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

Well, good to hear he’s still around for a year. And I certainly hope he does re-up with the Braves. But, as it looks now, we should be getting a nice draft pick come July 2009. Hopefully it’s a pitcher.

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this

SG, my friend, we have got to have a serious discussion with Grinch about the quality of distilled spirit he is pouring down his gullet. A public admission of consumption of Old Smuggler is nothing short of a cry for help. Please help me with our friend, as we explain to him what will happen to his mind as well as his, uh, manhood, when he continually consumes mass quantites of inferior spirits.

Patron is too smooth for the likes of me

This is a man screaming out for help.

By uga-brave

October 18, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

in the latest sports illustrated they did a hatchet job on TBS’S coverage of the playoffs. really gave our favorite caray a disparaging review, not that anyone was really watching outside of colo or ariz.

as for all the TEX speculation no way do you trade him period. like someone said ride the horse till he is dead.

still believe they are gonna try to replace andruw on the cheap and target glavine and another impact pitcher through a trade.

i for one would love to see what it would take to get harang. i know that is not likely but i believe he is one of the 5 best pitchers in the n.l.

as for all that byrd talk, please no. already been down that road and we dont need another old junkballer.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 18, 2007 3:23 AM | Link to this

Reading the last few hours of the blog gave me a pretty good laugh (Teixeira , Verlander etc.) Jared , I realize you probably have never even played the game much less been teaching kids how to pitch for the last fifteen years. That said , I saw Jeff Bennett pitch two games for the Braves and this from someone who might actually know a thing or two about pitching. Bennett throws a two seam and four seam fastball , one is a sinker and the other a straight fastball. He also throws a slider and a curveball. The guy throws in the 93-95 range , which is more than good enough to get hitters out. I saw a big league right hander with four major league pitches that he can throw for strikes and quickly understood why the Braves called him up. I’ll put it this way Jared , so even you can figure it out. Chuck James has two pitches and throws around 88-90. Bennett has four pitches and throws 93-95 . Brian McCann raved about the quality performance of Jeff Bennett and I second his opinion. As a reliever , he threw gas and nothing but gas. Bennett had tommy john surgery and learned how to pitch and not just throw , then the Braves turned him into a starter and found the proverbial diamond in the rough. If Glavine is brought on board and Hampton finally gets healthy , the Braves are going to eat the N.L east for breakfast , lunch and dinner. The rest of the blog better get on the bandwagon , this team is going to make some noise in 2008 and I can see it coming a mile away.

By ncscoots

October 18, 2007 6:32 AM | Link to this

Ah, the logic of baseball fans. A poster says in one paragraph “target Glavine”, and in the next, reviles Byrd because the Braves “don’t need another old junkballer”. ???

I expect the earth to spin off its axis at any moment: Coach and I agree on something :-). Bennett does show promise. He’s got tools, it just remains to be seen how he will fare after coming up on the radar. At this point, I can’t see how you pencil him in for the rotation as Plan A, but check with me again after spring training.

I don’t agree that you can easily replace Teixeira with just a “productive first baseman”. You’d be trying to replace that prime-time offense, and that has little to do with position. So far, his offense will replace AJ (not what Andruw did last year, but the O that Andruw is capable of producing, e.g., 50/128), but what about the offense LaRoche supplied? Still MIA. Tex doesn’t replace both. And replacing a FA Teixeira with an offensive downgrade at 1B just diminishes the team’s offensive capability even further. Braves need this guy, and should overpay for him, if necessary. Besides, he can move to 3B if and when Chipper retires, and THEN you can use one of the “easily-found productive 1B”.

By bill

October 18, 2007 6:54 AM | Link to this

I would not be upset if they traded Tex. This trade was a mistake from the start. The Braves knew they would have no chance to sign him, having to deal with Boras. If he’s not signed this winter, trade him before spring training. I think they can recoup some of the players they gave away. Tex is a great player and I wished he would stay with the Braves but it’s not happning.

By dcarp23

October 18, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

DOB-What’s the word on Sung Ki Jung who is pitching in the fall league for the Braves? How did he arrive in the organization? He’s 28 years old, so I’d imagine if he comes up it would have to be soon.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

October 18, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Everybody in the Eastern End of the country, hold on to your hats…..The stroms y’all are getting today produced flooding, hail, damaging winds, lightning, and two tornadoes in my hometown yesterday afternoon. Looks like it missed all the residential areas and just blew down a bunch of trees on the outskirts of town. Haven’t checked the weather today, but maybe it’s dissapated (sp) a little bit since it hit us.

By Shaun

October 18, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

bill, do you think it would have been better to trade Saltalamacchia for a mediocre pitcher or a lesser bat? Those were basically their only options. No one was going to trade an impact bat that’s better or signed longer term than Teixeira for Saltalamacchia. And Salty wasn’t helping the Braves much by riding the pine or playing in the minors or playing first base (because he loses value both defensively and offensively as a first baseman).

By Lew

October 18, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Hillbilly-There hasn’t been any action on the baby naming front. Don’t even have fiver serious suggestions yet, much less more for a good choice. The denizens need to step up. I’m keeping track, though.

Scoots-The axis may well be spinning the world out into space. I agree with Coach, too. Bennett showed al lot of good pitches and some interesting traits, like the willingness to go inside and outside on hitters. He may be a bit older than the ususal rookie, but so what? Even if we only get a good year or two from him, that’s got to be a plus.

By John the Baptist

October 18, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

DOB I suggest you charge ChrisKlob “ad time” for his incessant hawking of his “spirits” on here. The Devil made him do it.

By shawhem

October 18, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Dave, Small sample set, I agree, but the title of the article was “Braves’ CF prospect starts fast in Fall League”. :)

By Arkansas Hillbilly

October 18, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Lew, That’s o.k. We’ve got until June. We’ll get serious about it once we figure out a gender.

By Jared

October 18, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

If Glavine is brought on board and Hampton finally gets healthy , the Braves are going to eat the N.L east for breakfast , lunch and dinner.

But where does the amazing staff ace and Cy Young candidate Jeff Bennett fit into that? Smoltz/Hudson/Glavine/James/Hampton?

He’s not going to be anything next year. In fact, Bennett is not going to be in the opening day rotation or be in the Braves’ starting rotation for any significant amount of time in 2008. Bennett is just another Buddy Carlyle or Jason Shiell type. The Braves aren’t going to run out and trade Chuck James to make room for the guy, I’d bet.

And you’re right, I’m no pitching coach. But even I know it’s very wrong to suggest somebody (Bennett) is a better pitcher because he has a higher fastball velocity than someone else (James) or because he throws more pitches. If that were the case, wouldn’t Davies (higher velocity and more pitches) be better than James?

By Efrim

October 18, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

NCScoots

Agreed on Tex. It would be a very bad thing if we didn’t sign him long term. I’m sure Boras will ask for 8 years and 200 million, and for Braves fans to think that he won’t, you’re fooling yourselves. I think the Braves can guarentee that they will, AT THE VERY LEAST, pay him 8 years and 160 million dollars. You just have to sit there and say to yourselves, is he that important of a player that he will take up 1/4 of our payroll? I believe he is. Chipper is getting older, how many years are we getting out of him, 2 more?

I know many will disagree with me and think that we can find a 1st baseman that could give us more ROI, but I disagree. Kala Kaaihue has given no indication that he can handle major league pitching and I really don’t want to trade ANOTHER handful of prospects to fill an offensive position. If we are trading prospects, I want it to be for pitching, not Offense.

By Mac

October 18, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Salmonella at Sherman’s Last Burning!! I work at The Covington News and we are about to run a story about a outbreak of salmonella at Sherman’s Last Burning, which I think you said you went to. So if you are feeling sick, you should go get checked out. So far, 17 have reported being sick.

By Vinny Vegas

October 18, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

If Glavine is brought on board and Hampton finally gets healthy , the Braves are going to eat the N.L east for breakfast , lunch and dinner.

Don’t bet the farm on this. One is a candiate for the D.L. at any momment and Glavine’s best days are far behind him.

By ncscoots

October 18, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Efrim, I touched on this the other day, that’s it’s too early to give up on Kaaihue yet. Only about 100 AB at AA after an in-season promotion, and he’s still age-OK for his level. I’d give him some more AB at Pearl before making any determination about his ceiling.

As for Tex, I don’t know what Braves’ payroll will be like for 2009, and don’t know if they can stomach $25MM annually for anybody. But if salary inflation continues, then Tex is as worth a big number as anyone else the Braves might think of acquiring.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Hillbilly-When in June are y’all due? If it’s the 14th, you just might have to name him for Uncle Lew.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Jared-Maybe you will be proven right, maybe not. The way I see things shaking out is we pick up Glavine and trade for another mid-rotation or young up and coming starter. Then you plug the new guy into the 3 slot and Glavine at number four. Then you let, Hampton, James, Bennett and Reyes fight it out for number five. At least one or two of the others go to long relief (Villarreal is either traded or released-you noticed he did not pitch down the stretch?) and when someone (you know it will happen) goes down to injury, one of the others steps into the rotation. The way things have been going in recent years, you need at least seven relatively effective starters to mak e it through the season-if not more. No one is saying that Bennett is the next coming of whoever you want to name, but he did show some good tendencies when he pitched last year. He isn’t going to bring much in a trade, but he is cheap and there is absolutely no downside to giving him a shot. What exactly, do you think we have to lose?

By ncscoots

October 18, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

In fact, Bennett is not going to be in the opening day rotation or be in the Braves’ starting rotation for any significant amount of time in 2008

Perhaps. But it doesn’t break my heart to think of Chuck James, Jeff Bennett, and Dan Smith in the Richmond rotation, ready to appear at the first sign of trouble or injury.

And, yes, I think Reyes takes James’ spot in 2008.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Jared-Another point you may want to take into account is that Carlyle saved our a*******e$ last year. We would not have contended for a playoff berth into the last week of the season if not for Carlyle’s arrival in the rotation. His presence went a long way towards stabilization, thereof-at least for a good bit of the time he pitched. He DID end up with a winning record, which is much more than you can say about the other pitchers who tried the number 5 spot in the rotation.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 18, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Jared , You will will be cannon fodder come time for the season to start in April of 2008. Just ask the Grinch about how total ignorance can come back to bite you in the keister. By the way , Jeff Bennett is tearing up the Venezuelan winter league just like he did in Richmond and Atlanta. 1-1 with an ERA of 1.00 , 9 innings 1 ER 2 BB and 5 K’s

By Efrim

October 18, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

NCScoots

Reyes has a much higher ceiling than James and I believe it will be realized this season. James might have less than an a hit per inning, but that third time through the rotation will doom him every time. Reyes will find a permanent spot in this rotation around June. Better stuff than Chuck.

I’ll even go so far to say that I would consider trading Chuck before trading Jo Jo.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Shawhem, you have no point.

You can take his nine at-bats vs. lefties in the Fall League (and if you take nine at-bats as reprentative of anything, you need a better grasp of statistial analysis), or you can take his body of work over three-quarters of a season (105 at-bats vs. lefties, 323 at-bats vs. righties). You be the judge, since you’re the one who said “he can’t hit lefties” (and you’re the first who’s come up with that brilliant analysis; haven’t seen any scout say that, or even Keith Law).

This season at Myrtle Beach, he hit .305 with a .376 OBP vs. lefties, .291 with a .348 OBP vs. righties.

I don’t care what the headline of the blog says. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with this “debate,” if debate can even be used to describe this nonsensical discussion with someone who declares that a player can’t hit lefties because he had one hit in his first nine at-bats against lefties in the fall league.

So if he got four hits in his his eight at-bats vs. lefties in Arizona, making him 5-for-17 against them, making hiim a .294 hitter against them this fall, would that mean he suddenly is a very good hitter against them in your eyes? That he’d gone from “can’t hit lefties” to “hits .294 against them” in your interesting analysis?

Oh, that’s right. The headline says he’s off to a fast start in Arizona. (Just admit it, you looked at his splits for one week in Arizona and made a ridicuous statement about his ability to hit lefties.)

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Well, the whole point was if Teixeira walks we get a draft pick. I’d rather have more. Perhaps that’s just the greedy American in me. I want more than 1 WS title. I want more than a draft pick for Teixeira. After 2 months and a college dorm song I’m not married to the guy and therefore would not be broken hearted if he were moved. And likewise I will not be weeping if he is not resigned. He’s a great player but he’ll have been with the team for only a season and a third. It’s not like losing Smoltz or Chipper. That would be utterly depressing.
I do understand that he is needed and needed badly. Without Teixeira there is no bat to protect Chipper. Even a trade of Teixeira wouldn’t result in a big bat in return. The point was about obtaining a sustainable level of output for the team for multiple years as opposed to one year.

Alas, the word was spoken. Teixeira will not be traded.
And the other word was spoken, Teixeira will not sign an extension, he will determine his value on the open market.
So here it is. The Braves have a great shot at winning it all next year. After that, if/when Teixeira walks the Braves won’t really be in a position to win it all for a while. I’ll hold out hope that the word isn’t set in stone. Parity is great when your team isn’t winning it all. However, I’d love for the Braves to be the first dynasty of the 21st centry.

How much is Teixeira worth on the open market? Probably more than the Braves will offer…

Cowherd: Is anybody worth $30 million a year?

Schuerholz: I think it’s obnoxious. I admire and respect Alex Rodriguez as much as any ball player that has played the game. But for someone to suggest that this is a valid salary level for a professional athlete, no matter what kind of voodoo economics they can do in analyzing the books of MLB, it’s absolutely asinine. It only takes one team to have the wherewithal with that player, and then that player and his representatives think ‘Well, this is what the market value is.’ It’s crazy, and so is that level of compensation.

Cowherd: What do you say when an agent presents you with such a high offer?

Schuerholz: When [Boras] presented us with that kind of offer with Andruw Jones, we found it so ridiculous and obnoxious we didn’t even respond. It didn’t even rise to the level of requiring a response. It’s just idiotic. And I suppose there is this theory of some agents out there, that as long as there is one person that has idiotic thinking, that’s all they need because it drives the market to where they want it to go. But there’s no validity to it at all.

Cowherd: How much is a high-level player worth?

Schuerholz: It’s so hard to draw that comparison now because we are where we are in this environment. We’ve been taken so far out of whack it’s hard to measure what the common sense number would be. I don’t think $10 million is an embarrassing amount of money for a high-level player. I wouldn’t be embarrassed by saying I think the star caliber players in our game, if they received $10 million or so, I think that’s a fair, high level of compensation for a star.

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

1-1 with an ERA of 1.00 , 9 innings 1 ER 2 BB and 5 K’s

Is he relieving or starting? 9 total innings in two starts? What happened?

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Oh, nevermind. He’s only 1-for-7 in his past two games, so it looks as if Schafer can no longer hit, period (I’m using Shawhem’s reasoning here)….

Mac, thinks for the warning. I’ll look for projectile whatever….

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 18, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Another thing about Mike Hampton. The Braves will be paying him 8.25 million in 2008 due to the fact that his contract is amortized. Have fun looking that word up in the dictionary.

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Bennett is just another Buddy Carlyle or Jason Shiell type

Ouch. Jason Shiell? I had blotted him from my memory and then here he is popping up on the board again. I like Bennett’s stuff and appreciated his contributions this past season. I’m excited about what he could offer the team in the pitching department. I’m not unrealistically projecting him to be a front line or middle of the order guy for next season. But I’m certainly not going to drag his good name through the mud either. Same goes for Carlyle. Jason Shiell? eeeesh.

By Lee in S. GA

October 18, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

I agree Reyes has an excellent chance of talking a spot in the starting rotation next season. I really think James will be traded eventually. I do know James, Reyes, Hampton (all lefties) will not all be in the starting rotation on opening day. This is what puzzles me about Glavine possibly returning. Seems to me 3 potential lefties starting is high. This is certainly not the norm in MLB. Maybe this has been successful by a team in the past. It seems unlikely to me.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

October 18, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

Uncle Lew, June 10th, tenatively.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 18, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Bennett has two starts. 3 innings 1 ER and a loss. 6 innings 0 ER and the win.

By Shaun

October 18, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, the Braves will in effect get more for Teixeira than draft picks if and when he leaves as a free agent. They’ll avoid a high contract that will likely out-pace his production by the middle to end of it. So it depends partly on what the Braves can turn that cash into as to whether the Braves will contend in 2009.

By Lee in S. GA

October 18, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

Has everybody completely give up on Thorman? Maybe he will learn to hit by the end of 2008 and can take over first if we loose Tex…. Just kidding. He does indeed seem to be the forgotten man on the team. Looks like he would bring a little something in a trade. Maybe package him and James together.

By flbravesgirl

October 18, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Glad you’re OK, Hillbilly. Sounds like it was quite a nasty storm.

Lew, I voted for Wyatt right away.

Now as an ordinary (& female) fan my opinion may not count as much but I thought Bennett made a darn good first impression. He pitched like he had a clue what he was doing and he didn’t look scared half to death. If I recall correctly the reason he’s a little older for a rookie is because he already missed a couple of seasons in the minors with the almost-prerequisite Tommy John surgery.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, just to be clear: It wasn’t me who said Teixeira absolutely will not sign an extension before he hits the market. I think it’s doubtful, but I wouldn’t rule it out.

I would, however, rule out any chance of him being traded this winter. That part, I can say without hesitation.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 18, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul , for reference , you can look up his winter league stats by digging into the Braves/Richmond MILB website. Just look up Bennett’s minor league stats and click on his name , then his winter league numbers will come up.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

FLBraves Girl-Of course your opinion has meaning. We are not at the voting stage yet-still at the suggestion stage and not many options yet.

By Jared

October 18, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

I’m not trying to attack Bennett, I just strongly believe he is not a viable option. And if his two starts were horrible, everyone here would agree and there wouldn’t be any real debate.

But Bennett, in a very small sample size, started two games. 5 and 2/3 inning and one earned run and another start against the Astros where he pitched six innings and gave up three earned runs. If both had been two innings and seven earned runs, would anyone here mention him? It was two starts against two weak offensive teams. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t believe Bennett can make 35 starts and post an ERA under five. And I don’t see anyone, be it Hampton (if healthy), James or Reyes or somebody else that may be acquired this offseason, who should be removed from the rotation to make room for Jeff Bennett.

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Isn’t how much a player is worth relative to the market they play in?

I don’t think Arod is worth $30 mil in Atlanta. he was not worth $25 mil in seattle or dallas. He is not really worth that anywhere besides LA or NY. He is not really worth that even in Boston or Chicago because the Cubs and Red Sox sell out every game without him anyway. He is worth that and maybe more in NYC or LA though.

Just look at what he has done for television ratings, attendance and merchandise sales in NYC since he became a Yankee. Factor in all the nonstop publicity that surrounds him, both good and bad. He is worth every dime of that in New York.

No player is worth that based upon field performance. It is what they can do financially for the team off the field in whatever market they are in that makes them worth it. Arod will just go back to being another great but kinda underappreciated and underpublicized ballplayer like he was in Texas or Seattle if he goes back to a place like that. Derek Jeter is just another $10 mil dollar player anywhere else but he is worth every dime of $18 mil in NYC based upon the financial benefit the team derives out of him being on the team. Mike Vick was never worth that money based upon on the field performance but he was worth that and more based upon what he brought financially to the Falcons off the field.

Scott Boras can try to convince everyone that Andruw Jones or Tex are worth all that money but to whom and why? As great as each player is (or has been in the case of Andruw), neither is a sexy marketable player that puts fannies in the seats and makes people buy merchandise and flock to their televisions. Neither player will ever be marketable like that. They are both too boring really.

Chipper Jones and John Smoltz may be just $12 to $14 mil players here in this market but they would each be worth over $20 mil if they were playing in a market like New York because they would be marketable and would put fans in the seats up there. Smoltz more so than Chipper.

By ColoradoBravesFan

October 18, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Gregor Blanco off to hot start in Venezuelan league games. Batting .476, 2B, 3B, HR, 7BBs. Only 1 for three in SB attempts. Does anyone know how the overall talent level equates in the winter leagues. Low -A, High-A or equal to Double-AA?

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Isn’t how much a player is worth relative to the market they play in?

I don’t think Arod is worth $30 mil in Atlanta. he was not worth $25 mil in seattle or dallas. He is not really worth that anywhere besides LA or NY. He is not really worth that even in Boston or Chicago because the Cubs and Red Sox sell out every game without him anyway. He is worth that and maybe more in NYC or LA though.

Just look at what he has done for television ratings, attendance and merchandise sales in NYC since he became a Yankee. Factor in all the nonstop publicity that surrounds him, both good and bad. He is worth every dime of that in New York.

No player is worth that based upon field performance. It is what they can do financially for the team off the field in whatever market they are in that makes them worth it. Arod will just go back to being another great but kinda underappreciated and underpublicized ballplayer like he was in Texas or Seattle if he goes back to a place like that. Derek Jeter is just another $10 mil dollar player anywhere else but he is worth every dime of $18 mil in NYC based upon the financial benefit the team derives out of him being on the team. Mike Vick was never worth that money based upon on the field performance but he was worth that and more based upon what he brought financially to the Falcons off the field.

Scott Boras can try to convince everyone that Andruw Jones or Tex are worth all that money but to whom and why? As great as each player is (or has been in the case of Andruw), neither is a sexy marketable player that puts fannies in the seats and makes people buy merchandise and flock to their televisions. Neither player will ever be marketable like that. They are both too boring really.

Chipper Jones and John Smoltz may be just $12 to $14 mil players here in this market but they would each be worth over $20 mil if they were playing in a market like New York because they would be marketable and would put fans in the seats up there. Smoltz more so than Chipper.

By Shaun

October 18, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Lee in S. GA, good point about Thorman. He could find himself and become an adequate major league first sacker by 2009. I do think it’s a long shot that he’ll be a better player than say Adam LaRoche during his best couple of seasons.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Uh Jared-If his two starts were terrible, we WOULDN’T mention him. However, Dude, they weren’t. You still fail to mention what the downside of giving him a shot might be. Like I said-He did well when he was here. He is doing well in the Winter League. He’s cheap. We hold him contractually. Maybe you get the proverbial lightning in a bottle, maybe not. I don’t know and neither do you. Nothing will be hurt trying to find out though, will it? It’s a definite no lose situation. Why are you so vehemently against him getting a chance this spring to see what he can do? He’s a cheap option. If he performs, you get a deal. If he doesn’t, you let him go and lose damn little. I fail to see the problem.

By ncscoots

October 18, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Now as an ordinary (& female) fan my opinion may not count as much but I thought Bennett made a darn good first impression.

FBG, no self-deprecation allowed here :-). Bloggers must be insanely self-obsessed, and must consider their words to have at least the clout of those from the Oracle at Delphi. Try to keep up, LOL.

By Jared

October 18, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Uh Jared-If his two starts were terrible, we WOULDN’T mention him.

That was my whole point. Mentioning him for a spot in the rotation is a knee-jerk reaction based on a very small sample size of major league pitching for the Atlanta Braves in 2007.

You still fail to mention what the downside of giving him a shot might be.

I did mention the downside, the guy he would replace. James? A healthy Hampton? Reyes? Whoever the Braves may sign/trade for this offseason? Who among those do you think Bennett could out-pitch in a full season?

I don’t see a problem giving him a chance in spring training. But then you get into to the whole “should you base any real decisions on some fake games” thing. If you would, Martin Prado would have been the Braves’ second baseman and not Kelly Johnson. Plus James Jurries would have been the first baseman the past two seasons. And McCann would lose out to Doug Clark.

By Steamboat

October 18, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, good post about the worth of Arod. ‘Course, Boras has an answer to your point that teams that already sell out, and so don’t have room to increase attendance.

“That creates the opportunity to raise ticket prices by 20 percent.”

By Arkansas Hillbilly

October 18, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

FlBravesGirl,

yeah everybody’s ok, but my jobsite isn’t. Looks like a lot of overtime coming my way, thanks to this storm.

And yes your opinion counts. I saw Bennett’s last game in Houston in person, and he looked pretty sharp. Not rattled at all by the atmosphere surrounding the Biggio farewell tour. I was fairly impressed.

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, good post about the worth of Arod. ‘Course, Boras has an answer to your point that teams that already sell out, and so don’t have room to increase attendance. “That creates the opportunity to raise ticket prices by 20 percent.

Great point Steamboat!

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

This is the problem with Jeff Bennett. Next year, the starting pitching depth must be:

1. hudson

2. smoltz

3. glavine

4. new young starter

5. hampton

6. james

7. jojo reyes

8. jeff bennett

if jeff bennett ever has to start a game for the braves next year, something has seriously gone wrong and this team has no shot at the postseason.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

ColoradoBravesFan, at this point of the winter-league season in Venezuela I’d guess it’s about Double-A level. More of the established Venezuelan-born major leaguers will join their teams for the latter part of the season and playoffs.

By Wayne being Wayne

October 18, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

If it works for Manny…..

I was not saying last night that I thought the Braves would trade Tex. I was saying that if I were the GM, I would offer him a nice contract this winter, and if he didn’t bite, I would CONSIDER trading. Me, not the Braves, but Wayne out here in the far reaches of Utah. Actually, if our rotation rounds into shape, then I do as Gil suggests. Ride him hard, and put him away wet. Take the draft choice in June 2009, and hope Thorman develops.

I think Bennett is exactly what Lew states, one of many who will get a shot. I will even pull for the traitor Glavine, if we sign him.

Personally, I suspect James will be dealt to upgrade our #3. Also, I suspect we won’t get much from Hampton.

So, we have a myriad of guys that will get a shot. The usual suspects: Smoltz, Hudson, #3 we will call him, Glavine (maybe), James (if not traded), Hampton (if healthy), Reyes, Carlyle, Bennett, Lerew, Cormier, Boyer, Bueno…..did I miss any?

Oh, and I think we should definitely NOT go for Cameron (Wayne, again being the GM). I think there are too many better choices out there, for less money, that offer more. I don’t see the Braves doing much of anything on the FA market, unless it is Glavine.

Wayne being Wayne…..opinionated, obnoxious, etc, etc….

:-)

By bill

October 18, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Shaun, no I would not have traded Salty for a broken down pitcher or bat. The Braves can’t continue to waste prospects. They should have waited until this winter and it’s no telling what they could have gotten for Salty. The Braves are not going to pay Tex over 20mil for 7yrs. That’s to much money to tie up in one player. As I said, Tex is a great player but just don’t see him remaining a Brave.

By ncscoots

October 18, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Wayne, after you bring up all those names, I think Gil might get to see just a wee bit of good AAA pitching next year, ya think?

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

DOB: I understand. Trading Tex is a long, long shot. But I’ll hold out hope that re-upping with him is feasible.

After next season Tex won’t be the only player we’d have to replace assuming he walks. If the big deal is to pick up a one year ride from Glavine we’ll need to again revamp the rotation and find bats to replace Teixeira. There are a lot more parts moving after next season than there are this season.

Payne: get more for Teixeira than draft picks if and when he leaves as a free agent Right. Less is more.
They’ll avoid a high contract that will likely out-pace his production by the middle to end of it Impressive. The guy hasn’t even signed a contract and you’ve already deemed him not worth it in the long run.
I’d disagree though. I think this guy is going to be a productive ball player for a while. If Boras is attempting to land a 12 to 15 year deal I’d agree. But I think he’ll be aiming for a 7 year deal or at least that will be what he’ll get. Tex will be 28 next season… 7 to 8 years puts him at 35-36… right at the age Chipper was fighting for a batting title and being very productive.

I think, of all the bats out there, Tex is one of the few that is worth the investment. The hang up is, will the Braves be willing to invest that kind of money in him. After reading JS’s comments on asinine contracts I’m leaning towards the negative on this one. But we’ll see.

By Wayne being Wayne

October 18, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Personally, I hope that the Braves do not pay Tex too much. All I can see is us paying him 20 mil for a gazillion years, and then moaning and complaining about it in “Hamptonese” about 5-6 years down the road.

By Lee in S. GA

October 18, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Not to be gloomy here but if for some unforeseen reason the 1st half of next season is a disaster, I would trade Tex to a contender if the price was right and the Braves did not think they had any chance to resign him. I am sure they know Boras and most players’ desire for money by now. That would be the only scenario I could imagine a trade developing with him.

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

1. hudson
   
2. smoltz
   
3. glavine
   
4. new young starter
   
5. hampton
   
6. james
   
7. jojo reyes
   
8. jeff bennett
   if jeff bennett ever has to start a game for the braves next year, something has seriously gone wrong

   The assumption on points 3-5 could be what goes wrong and we’ll know about those before the season really gets going. Also, If Bennett gets a start, it could be a matter of who goes down, a lefty or a righty. JoJo might not be called upon if a Righty goes down.

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

FBG, no self-deprecation allowed here :-). Bloggers must be insanely self-obsessed, and must consider their words to have at least the clout of those from the Oracle at Delphi. Try to keep up, LOL.

In exchange for a red velvet cake, I will pass on my manual to FBG that the rest of us macho, macho men have read on how to post (or pose) with all the Hemingway machismo and bravado one can muster.

By Shaun

October 18, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

bill, I don’t think they’ll pay Teixeira that much. I think they’ll use that money they’ll save for maybe two or three good players, or maybe to keep some of their players and sign some good players or trade for some good players. All sorts of things could be set in motion by the Braves trading Salty for Tex then letting Tex walk. It’s not as simple as the Braves trading a top prospect for a veteran they’ll likely lose or resign for a ridiculous sum of money.

TennesseePaul, oh, I’m not denying Teixeira will be productive for a while. No doubt he will. But there is a pretty good chance the Braves can find a solid first basemen for a lot less. Of course I don’t think their first baseman will be as good as Tex in 2009 if they don’t re-sign him, but what I mean is they are likely to find someone that will provide much more bang for the buck and who is still a solid major league first baseman.

And I know he hasn’t signed a contract yet. I’m just guessing on what he’ll likely sign and my guess is it wouldn’t be wise for many teams in baseball to sign him for what he’s likely to command.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 18, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Hey, for all those that don’t think Manny would fit in here in Atlanta, I disagree. Sounds like he already has adopted Bobby Cox’s way of thinking. I mean, yeah, what’s the big deal? We don’t win, so what. Always next year or the next game or the next day or the next series…..

By flbravesgirl

October 18, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Um, thanks, guys… but I don’t think machismo would work for me. I tend to be a pretty modest person except where my baking is concerned. I know I’m good at that.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Lee, thanks for not being gloomy.

By Randy

October 18, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I may be jumping into the middle of someone else’s argument here, but to say that if Jeff Bennett gets a start the Braves have no shot at the playoffs runs in the face of how a pitching staff shakes out over a 162 game season. Take a look at the 8 playoff teams this year and how many different pitchers started games for them:

LAA - 8 starters, 7 with 8+ starts CHC - 8 ARZ - 8, 7 with 10+ starts CLE - 8, 7 with 9+ starts PHI - 13, 8 with 10+ starts BOS - 8, 6 with 11+ starts COL - 12, 9 with 8+ starts NYY - 14, 9 with 6+ starts

And these are the playoff teams! Don’t dismiss the need for depth in your starting rotation.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 18, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

“I tend to be a pretty modest person except where my baking is concerned. I know I’m good at that.”

and that is precisely why flbravesgirl should immediately mail another cake to jimmy smith for carolina journalist, er, lady.

and where is the grinch lately? and what is old smuggler? like hires? a&w? barqs? not familiar with that particular root beer. made where?

and red velvet cake is nice but devils food cake is divine. any devils food cake received by this journalist will be promptly forwarded to carolina lady.

now, soon it will be time for holiday feasts and this blog must be prepared. giblets and such must be collected. and pumpkin pie and pecan pie and mince meat pie must be prepared. oh, the humanity! journalist cannot wait!

and lew, jimmy smith studied the wurlitzer again last night and lew is very talented. journalist found waldo! that’s right, waldo! very clever positioning, lew. very clever. hat was the giveaway.

and dob, soon going to the world series … pack plenty of cheese.

By Carolina Lady

October 18, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, we’re quite familiar with it. It’s called “hot air.”

:-))

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Randy, those are really good points you made. Starting pitching rotation depth is critical. My point is that Bennett is 8th on that depth chart. We have no idea what he can really do in the majors. If we have to get that far down into our depth, then we are basically facing the same pitching woes we had this year with smoltz and hudson and whole lot of nuthin’.

But you are right. It was awfully melodramatic of me to say they have no shot at the playoffs if Jeff Bennett ever starts next year.

But I was just trying to stay true to every post containing all the machismo, bravado, and bluster one can muster.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 18, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Robert JITB has the best post of the month.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 18, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Hey, for all those that don’t think Manny would fit in here in Atlanta, I disagree. Sounds like he already has adopted Bobby Cox’s way of thinking. I mean, yeah, what’s the big deal? We don’t win, so what. Always next year or the next game or the next day or the next series…..

By Lew

October 18, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Jared-Your vehemence over giving Bennett a chance is incomprehensible to me and to others here as well. Did he perhaps do your family harm at some point in the past?

We are fully aware of the small sampling size. Dude, I guarantee we pay as much attention to what goes on with the Braves as you do. What we saw was encouraging for a variety of reasons, which we described to you, including his pitch selection and his willingness to pitch inside to hitters, as well as on the outer half of the plate. These are aspects of a pitcher’s repertoire that are desireable, as almost everyone with any knowledge of the game will tell you.

Now, no one here has claimed Bennett is a lock for any rotational spot. We wouldn’t do that, considering that there are James, Hampton and Reyes in the mix (at this particular time-some may be involved in trades), as well.

However, to arbitrarily throw Bennett out of the mix because we only saw him pitch two games (which were pretty darn good, actually, all things considered) is foolhardy in the extreme. You just never know what might happen, even if only for one season. I mean, who would have figured Damian Moss or Horacio, or Chuck James for that matter, would have won 12 games after not even appearing on the radar, prior to those performances? The point is, you just don’t know.

Now, maybe Bennett will flame out. I’m certainly NOT saying this is not a possibility,. For all we know, James might develop a third pitch and take Tim Hudson’s off-season workout regimen to heart. Hampton might tear up winter ball and come back to be a bona fide number 2 or 3 pitcher. Not saying he will, but again, who knows? Jo Jo Reyes may develop into the pitcher many here think he will-again, who knows? Any or all or none of these things MIGHT happen, which would negate Bennett’s shot at making an impression. Again, who knows? Not I, for sure (though Coach claims omniscience).

As far as basing anything on Spring Training? Well, maybe Jurries didn’t get his chance though excelling in Orlando, but last year, Cormier was about to be handed the fifth slot in the rotation based on his Spring numbers. Davies was given the shot based on his Spring numbers when Cormier came up hurt. Dude, stranger things have happened each and every Spring for you to be so dead set against it happening again. Considering the cost of effective pitching these days, you’ve just got to give him a shot-just like the others.

By Carolina Lady

October 18, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

jjs, my grandmother had a recipe for something called the Hundred Dollar Chocolate cake. Best thing you could ever dream of in cake-dom! Rich, gooey, too delicious to describe! With a cold glass of milk? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :-)

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Count me among the former skeptics who was quite impressed by Bennett’s late-season performance. Hey, he wouldn’t be the first pitcher to become better after Tommy John surgery.

He pitched quite well in a coupl of his limited opportunities for the Braves. He’ll get a crack at a spot, for sure. He’ll have to earn it, but he’ll get an opportunity this spring, I’d bet.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

For those who might have missed it, as it was unfortunately overshadowed by Wednesday’s firing of Bob Hartley of the 0-6 Thrashers (losers of 10 in a row going back to last year), it was announced that THE coach, the winningest coach in the state, hands-down, is retiring after the 2009 season.

Suzanne Yoculan, Georgia gymnastic coach extraordinaire, is gonna figuratively hang up the leotard after the 2009 season. Two more seasons coaching the Gym Dawgs, who’ve won EIGHT national titles with her as coach, going for their fourth in a row in this, her 25th season.

Lady Yoc rocks.

By Greg in TN

October 18, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Afternoon denizens…

A strange thing happened on the way to the World Series, friends. The Indians are one night of Casey Blake and Jhonny Peralta heroics away from a fall classic date with the Rockies. Paul Byrd looked great the other night and the only blip on the Tribe’s radar was “Manny being Manny”. What a tool. At least it’s not surprising coming from him.

It’s not been an easy few days for the folks from Japan. First Toyota gets a Consumer Reports downgrade in a shocking downturn in reliability, then Dice-K gets hammered and suffers the same. The only ones smiling now are the Seibu Lions, which cashed a $51 million dollar check from Boston for the rights to negotiate with Matsuzaka. Certainly not Matsuzaka himself, and not the Red Sox, who are now out $103 million with the cash paid to the Lions on top of the contract he signed to be a Red Sox and have very little to show for from him since his August 10th outing against the O’s.

It’s great to see talk of red velvet cake on the Braves/MIB/BBQ/toes/ and now red velvet cake blog and I think a nationwide network of red velvet cake couriers isn’t a bad idea. Too bad I’m not sitting between FBG, Savannah Guy and my friend from Mt. Pleasant, Chris Klob, however if red velvet cake courier assistance is needed between the Georgia capital and points northward, count me in. I’m all for having more visits by the esteemed Carolina Lady and flbravesgirl since they provide the genteel view of Planet Braves.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 18, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

dob, maybe she will make a guest appearance on the blog now. “strap on the leotard” was a powerful message. like tippecanoe and tyler, too.

and carolina lady, feel free to bake the chocolate cake and send to this journalist to reciprocate flbravesgirl.

cakes coming in both directions … jimmy smith lives for this! (sorry, uh, chipper)

and doe a deer, a female deer, ray, a drop of golden sun jimmysmith, a name jimmysmith calls jimmysmith’s self far, a long long way to run sew, a needle pulling thread la, a note to follow sew tea, jimmysmith drinks with jam and bread that will bring us back to doe…oh oh oh shoot and kill and autograph and sell to a small child …

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

this blog really is a Wild West town. We even got ourselves a darn Pony Express for the delivery of red velvet cakes.

Here’s a salute to the riders of the Pony Express: 10Greg, JJS, SG, and Klobber.

By Greg in TN

October 18, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

This just in… SI and other media outlets are reporting Joe Torre has turned down a $5 million/one year deal to manage the Yankees and appears to be out now with the Yankees moving forward to hire another manager.

link

By Steamboat

October 18, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Torre turns down Yanks’ 1-year offer… good for him!

By Jared

October 18, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

You just never know what might happen, even if only for one season. I mean, who would have figured Damian Moss or Horacio, or Chuck James for that matter, would have won 12 games after not even appearing on the radar, prior to those performances? The point is, you just don’t know.

I’m confused. Are you comparing Chuck James and Jeff Bennett? James was drafted by the Braves and was one of their top pitching prospects for a long time. In 2003, James was named the Danville Braves’ Pitcher of the Year, with a 1.25 ERA. In 2004, he was named the South Atlantic League Pitcher of the Year, while playing for the Rome Braves, and was also named the April Player of the Month. He led the Braves minor league organization in wins. James also had the lowest ERA in his league. In 2005, he went 9-1 with a 2.01 ERA with the AA Mississippi Braves.

James was not some random and obscure minor league filler pitcher who flew in under the radar like Bennett.

By mo in the boonies

October 18, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave: I live in “Tiger” country. Trust me, neither Verlander nor Granderson are going anyplace. They are Tiger Aces. Speaking of Granderson, he was on ESPN yesterday, I think on the Hot Spot, and it was very refreshing to hear someone from the sports world who could talk without using “you know” every third word.

Arkansas Hillbilly: Do you pronounce your name Pear son or Peer son? Could make a difference in picking a first name…alliteration and all that…

Gil in Mechanicsburg…no hard feelings here on either rednecks or the mob.

Savannah Guy, since you, and all the other J.S. apologists on here feel no qualms about expressing your views considering JS, please allow the same privilege to those of us, who do not agree with you. I thought this was a blog for any and all to express our opinions, (about the Braves) whether or not they disagree with what many others think. If not, then I guess maybe I might not belong here. I personally do not think that winning 14 division titles means as much as you think, after all it only meant that the team won more games than the four other teams in the division. Teams which they had played some 18 times each during the season. And some years none of them were very tough. That doesn’t make you a world beater, winning the WS does.

And as for the old shopworn excuse that Schuerholz didn’t have a large enough budget to field a great team, look at what the Rockies and D-Backs did with less money. His problem in my opinion, (besides his arrogance) was he’d sit down with the master-mind BC and figure out what players Cox wanted for the next year, and then get them. And if they were flotsam and jetsam like Woodward, tough!

By Mr J

October 18, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

You know, JS knew who Tex’ agent was when he traded for him, and he knew that Tex was going to be expensive to re-sign, maybe prohibitively so. So he must have thought that a year and a third of Tex’ bat at a relatively moderate price was worth the future of all those prospects.

It looks to me like somebody thinks the future is now. I hope they’re right.

By Phantom Chef

October 18, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

     Red Velvet Cake

Vegetable oil for the pans 2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 1 1/2 cups sugar 1 teaspoon baking soda 1 teaspoon fine salt 1 teaspoon cocoa powder 1 1/2 cups vegetable oil 1 cup buttermilk, at room temperature 2 large eggs, at room temperature 2 tablespoons red food coloring (1 ounce) 1 teaspoon white distilled vinegar 1 teaspoon vanilla extract Cream Cheese Frosting, recipe follows Crushed pecans, for garnish

Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. Lightly oil and flour 3 (9 by 1 1/2-inch round) cake pans.

In a large bowl, sift together the flour, sugar, baking soda, salt, and cocoa powder. In another large bowl, whisk together the oil, buttermilk, eggs, food coloring, vinegar, and vanilla.

Using a standing mixer, mix the dry ingredients into the wet ingredients until just combined and a smooth batter is formed.

Divide the cake batter evenly among the prepared cake pans. Place the pans in the oven evenly spaced apart. Bake, rotating the pans halfway through the cooking, until the cake pulls away from the side of the pans, and a toothpick inserted in the center of the cakes comes out clean, about 30 minutes.

Remove the cakes from the oven and run a knife around the edges to loosen them from the sides of the pans. One at a time, invert the cakes onto a plate and then re-invert them onto a cooling rack, rounded-sides up. Let cool completely.

Frost the cake. Place 1 layer, rounded-side down, in the middle of a rotating cake stand. Using a palette knife or offset spatula spread some of the cream cheese frosting over the top of the cake. (Spread enough frosting to make a 1/4 to 1/2-inch layer.) Carefully set another layer on top, rounded-side down, and repeat. Top with the remaining layer and cover the entire cake with the remaining frosting. Sprinkle the top with the pecans.

Cream Cheese Frosting: 1 pound cream cheese, softened 4 cups sifted confectioners’ sugar 2 sticks unsalted butter (1 cup), softened 1 teaspoon vanilla extract

In a standing mixer fitted with the paddle attachment, or with a hand-held electric mixer in a large bowl, mix the cream cheese, sugar, and butter on low speed until incorporated. Increase the speed to high, and mix until light and fluffy, about 5 minutes. (Occasionally turn the mixer off, and scrape the down the sides of the bowl with a rubber spatula.)

Reduce the speed of the mixer to low. Add the vanilla, raise the speed to high and mix briefly until fluffy (scrape down the bowl occasionally). Store in the refrigerator until somewhat stiff, before using. May be stored in the refrigerator for 3 days.

Yield: enough to frost a 3 layer (9-inch) cake

By ncscoots

October 18, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Coach Yoc gone?!? Surely that was one of the signs of the End Of Days, no?

25 years, though, so I guess she’s entitled. But, bubba, somehow, that just ain’t right.

By brian

October 18, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

DOB - any chance Andrew Miller is available in a Renteria package from what you have heard?

I am very happy to hear that Teixeira is not available. Yes this season was disappointing, but the Braves are not far off from a championship team people. If we trade Renteria it will hurt, but if we trade him we should get an impact starting pitcher who would be our number 3 or number 4 starter. If the Braves can sign Glavine as the other number 3 or 4 pitcher - rotation is set with Hampton, Reyes, and James competing for the 5th spot (and the younger two learning from Glavine). Bullpen is set with Soriano, Ring, and the other young pitchers that were strong at the end of the year. Resigning Mahay would really solidify the bullpen and then anything we get from Gonzalez is a bonus. Lineup will be solid.

If the Braves sign Glavine, resign Mahay, and get a solid number 3/4 for Renteria, the Braves will win the NL East next year and be solid favorite for the Series (barring any major injury of course).

By Wayne being Wayne

October 18, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Tyler: Nobody is disagreeing with the past. History is what it is. Bennett MIGHT be a potential for our rotation next year. James might be wearing another uniform, if he can’t learn another pitch. I don’t think anybody is saying that Bennett is Cy Young reincarnated.

Mo in the boonies: You are right, we all have our opinions. Interesting that about 95% of the rest of the baseball world disagrees with you on JS. And if you want to talk about arrogance, look no further than Andruw Jones’ agent. That, my friend, is arrogance with a capital A.

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

Wow. that red velvet cake recipe is more complex than some of shaun’s sabermetric formulas. i have no shot at making that kind of cake when i somehow burn macaroni and cheese three times a week. thank the lord for ramen noodles. those are hard to burn.

By ChrisinPA

October 18, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

DOB

Is there any chance the Braves would even consider a “limited” no-trade clause to lock up Tex? I sure would like to know we have a stable seitch hitter in that line-up for the next 5 years. Love Chipper and he is stable, but health will always be a question for him until he retires.

By Phantom Chef

October 18, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Didn’t our mutual relative ever tell you that nothing good comes cheap or easy?

By Wayne being Wayne

October 18, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

brian: My guess on Andrew Miller is that to get him, we would have to give up someone with more long-term upside than Renteria. More likely, they would not move him unless they were able to get someone like Escobar.

Just my guess.

By mo in the boonies

October 18, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Wayne being Wayne Agents like Boras are paid to get as much as they can for their clients. That’s not arrogance, that is doing his job. And as long as Baseball owners continue to pay what ever it takes, the players and agents are going to get what ever they can. Schuerholz refusing to even talk with Boras is cutting off his nose to spite his face. Not a very bright thing to do.

As for 95% of people in the baseball world disagreeing with me, can you prove that? As far as I’m concerned, if you own a pink pig and 95% of the people tell you the pig is black, who you gonna believe? Them or your lying eyes?

By Julia's Child

October 18, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

Stinky’s favorite recipe: Take glass and fill with water. Place straw in glass. Suck, or blow, your choice.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 18, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

Good for Joe Torre. He walked away with some dignity. That offer was insulting.

By Pink Pig

October 18, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Either you print an immediate retraction or you will hear from my lawyer. Oink!

By Lew

October 18, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Jared-Are you on medication that’s p!$$!ng you off today? Did your girlfriend dump you? All I or anyone else has said is that Bennett will and should get a shot at the fifth slot in the rotation or on the pitching staff in general, based on the quality of his performance at the end of the 07 season. Just WTF are you becoming so damned contentious about, Dude? No one has even vaguely intimated that Chuck is bad, that Chuck is no good, that Chuck should be relegated to the lower levels of Hell, a la Dante. Chuck should have a shot as well. If you had ever bothered to read my posts (or, If you don’t believe me, ask DOB), you would realize that I’m one of Chuckie’s biggest fans-I came to his defense (as did Braveheart) at numerous times during the season. I even drew his picture and awarded it as a Wurlitzer. Yes, Chuck should have a shot. As should Hampton have a shot. As should Reyes. As should Cormier. As should anyone else the Braves have under contract that looks like he may be able to pitch in the major leagues.

The search for pitching the past couple of years has been difficult. Why look a potential gift horse in the proverbial mouth? Maybe we have another Pete Moylan-who knows? Like I said, did his dog crap on your lawn or something? If so, maybe you need to get over it.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Jared- One more thing-I seriously doubt that anyone expected Chuck to come up and post 12 victories in little more than half a season in the bigs, no matter WHAT his minor league numbers were.

By Pink Pig

October 18, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

did his dog crap on your lawn or something? If so, maybe you need to get over it.

I’d go around it, rather than get over it. But, that’s just me. :-)

By Braveheart

October 18, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly If it’s a boy, name him Butch. If it’s a girl, name her Sundance.

Bonnie for a girl and Clyde for a boy would work as well.

If it’s a boy, how about Kenesaw Mountain Pearson? Somebody needs to bring that Kenesaw Mountain name back into style. For some reason, the commish was not a trend setter with that name.

Stone Mountain Pearson might do for your boy. Don’t know any other Stones except for Stone Phillips with NBC though.

Pistol Pete Pearson works best for your boy though.

By Phantom Chef

October 18, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly Braveheart “names” like he “cooks”. I’d get a 2nd, 3rd or 4th opinion. :-)

By BossLady

October 18, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

Joe Torre gave the Steinbrenner offer just what it deserved from him. He is the most successful Manager that I know. I wish Bobby Cox had the success of Torree. I know, I know Bobby has all these record wins but I would have preferred the World Series wins. He is a classy guy along the lines of Hank Aaron and I give the much deserved respect and gratitude to him for a successful career as a player and manager. Steinbrenner is along the same lines as a Terence and what he says is much about nothing.

The Braves are not trading Tex. He is the future that they are building around.

Don’t worry about macaroni & cheese it is fattening and full of cholesterol. A good smoked salmon or grouper is the way to go.

By hellish

October 18, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Let me see if this is correct—-anyone who puts LoudMouth Lew or JoeBlowsBrave in their places have their posts deleted immediately? How convenient.

By Observer

October 18, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Let me see if this is correct—-anyone who puts LoudMouth Lew or JoeBlowsBrave in their places have their posts deleted immediately? How convenient.

Sounds fair to me.

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

mo in the boonies “since you, and all the other J.S. apologists on here feel no qualms about expressing your views considering JS, please allow the same privilege to those of us, who do not agree with you.”

Apologist for my JS post last night? Ok, sure…whatever. You are correct in that I have no qualms about expressing my views here and neither should you, but, uh…it’s really not mine to allow. But if you’re waiting on permission, it is hereby granted. Have at it. Say anything.

”I thought this was a blog for any and all to express our opinions, (about the Braves) whether or not they disagree with what many others think. If not, then I guess maybe I might not belong here.”

Here you are correct, although it’s ok to express opinions about things other than the Braves too. Mo, c’mon man, lighten up. You belong here as much as anyone. Did I accidentally step on your dogs tail?

”I personally do not think that winning 14 division titles means as much as you think”. “His problem in my opinion, (besides his arrogance) was he’d sit down with the master-mind BC and figure out what players Cox wanted for the next year, and then get them.”

Ok, that’s better. You just expressed several opinions. We don’t agree nor or we basing anything on a similar premise, but perhaps you are privy to what actually goes on in the inner sanctums of the club and have heard private conversations and read through strategic plans and budget spreadsheets. If so, then make me smarter.

So we disagree. That’s ok; you fish so you can’t be a bad guy. Hey, and nobody died because of our posts. All in all, it’s a good day don’t you think?.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

Hellish-That’s right, moron. You don’t mess with Lew and Joe Brave in Mr. Lew’s neighborhood.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

Mo In The Boonies-Dude, you were complaining that no one read your posts. Now you see that they do. You’re more than welcome to express your opinions, but don’t be surprised if someone who disagrees with you happens to mention it. That’s the way the blog turns. Strange as it may be, people disagree with me sometimes, too(Trolls and other Idiots as well). It’s all part of the game.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 18, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

I’m going to stick my neck out on this one and agree with Coach on his assessment of Bennett. He really did a nice job in his two starts for Atlanta but I did see him pitch in Richmond before his call-up. He is a better pitcher than Chuck James right now but so many things can happen in the off season.

We can argue until we are red in the face about who could be offered in trade scenarios but the truth is there are four players who could really be considered trade proof right now. Smoltz, Chipper, McCann and Francoeur. Not all for the same reasons either. You could likely throw Teixeria in that group too because it is the Brave best return on investment right now.

Good for Blanco if he is hitting. Like I have said, it is his only real weakness right now. The kid has a cannon for an arm. I love it when home grown talent does well. Want to see what happens when it works? Look at the Rockies…..

Okay, game time. Rooting for the Tribe to send the Soxs home tonight.

By Herman (The Baseball Expert)

October 18, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

no self-deprecation allowed here

Can you say that on a blog?

Name entry for baby contest: Herman!!!

By Wayne being Wayne

October 18, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

mo Hey, as SG states, it’s all OK. Actually, I said 95%, and I said that not having any “Shaun” type proof. To be honest, outside of the JS bashers on this blog, I have NEVER heard anyone in the baseball world, or sports world, for that matter, bash Schuerholz. I travel a lot, and listen to a lot of sports talk on the radio, have for years. Heard exactly ZERO real baseball people slam JS.

So, I personally think you are dillusional. I would not manage like JS does, but I would treat Boras the same way he has. To be honest, I agree that Boras is the best at getting players the max they can get. Trouble is, he has signed many players to contracts that probably were not to their long-term benefit. A good agent would try to help a player get the most money in the perfect place for him to excel. That is not Boras’ mode of operation. He only cares about the cash!

So, if I were the GM, I would tell all players on my team that I personally refuse to deal with Scott Boras. If a player on my team signed up with Scott, I would start from that moment trying to trade his selfish a$$.

So, JS not responding was appropriate. If you went to the grocery store, and the grocer said, I will sell you this rib eye steak (the biggest and best steak in the county) for $50 per pound. Would you counter offer, or laugh and walk away on principle? I would walk, and not dignify the grocer with anything resembling an offer. He could choke on his steak.

So JS was in affect telling Boras to take AJ to bid, and don’t bother coming back!

That is why I LIKE JS so much!

Sorry to have rambled so much.

BTW, if you can find a negative quote about JS or BC from a baseball authority, please forward the link to us.

By Wayne being Wayne

October 18, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

Gil: Go Tribe! Gotta pull for a team with a native American mascot!

But, when it comes WS time, I will have to pull for the Rockies.

By brian

October 18, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

thanks Wayne - that is what I am afraid of. I was hoping that there could be a package of Edgar plus some prospect or two (would probably have to be good ones)

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

and doe a deer, a female deer, ray, a drop of golden sun

This blog is becoming a rough, tough battleground. Now I see that JJS is angling to position his home as the cake clearing house and just cakewalk all over town. It’s not fair…just because he’s a good poet and journalist and all. Ok then, if you think that’s the last word, take this:

mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy. So there. That’s what I’m talkin’bout. Words can hurt mister.

Klobber, I’m just fighting fire with fire here…trying to keep the Coastal Pony Express Desert Tasting and Delivery Company in business. It’s getting tough to compete in this environment. Got any ideas? Strike a deal with the journalist? Send cheese peace offering? Klob Creek gift?

By Braves4Ever

October 18, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/10/18/torrerejectsoffertoreturntoyankees/

Check this out

By Paula D

October 18, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Jawl, I read Mister journalist jimmy smith all tha time. He loves the devil’s food cake. Ahhhh. He is so right about that. Best cake of them all. Now, I also read (into) his writings that he doesn’t care too much for Chippa. Well, that’s his perogative. Chippa gets injured too much, and I can see maybe somebody might think sometimes Chippa doesn’t play as hard as some might like. However, Mister journalist jimmy smith, with great respect, criticizing Chippa’s huntin’ deer and hog? Don’t jawl eat BBQ? That doesn’t seem right somehow. Maybe I missed somethin’.

By BossLady

October 18, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

I love Joe Buck!

Manny out at the plate!

Ball drops in in front of Manny!

I’m having the time of my life!

Cleveland Rocks!!!!!!!!

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

SG, just walked into the ol’ saloon and haven’t had a chance to read most of today’s action yet. I have seen that Shaun apparently changed his name to Jared so that he could argue with Lew.

Perhaps journalist and seal would appreciate a peace offering of a case of KC to “smooth” things over.

I did notice this morning that someone suggested to DOB that I should start paying an advertising fee for this space. I’m not prepared to do that but I’d be more than happy to buy the Notorious DOB a drink from time to time.

By Jared

October 18, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

Yes, Chuck should have a shot. As should Hampton have a shot. As should Reyes. As should Cormier. As should anyone else the Braves have under contract that looks like he may be able to pitch in the major leagues.

At the risk of extending this even more (for God’s sake it’s only October, there is a whole offseason for this), I would like to ask if you really have James and Hampton in the same group as Cormier and Bennett.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 18, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

but for the unfortunate occurrence, the cake for carolina lady would have been received by this journalist and delivered to carolina lady by now.

jimmy smith certainly deserves no criticism just because this journalist received an empty cake box.

finding new delivery personnel makes no sense. the next cake must be mailed again to jimmy smith and jimmy smith will strap the cake to the back of a fleet hartebeest and send the hartebeest on its way to carolina lady.

there, what could be better than that?

taste of the desert? sandy, this journalist would guess. and it must be readily apparent to all by now that dessert cannot be placed in the hands of those who confuse sand and frosting. trust jimmy smith.

and root beer is the drink of this journalist’s choice. root beer in a glass with a human hair stuck to the bottom (outside of the glass, though). this toughens the image of a root beer drinking journalist.

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, salute right back at’cha. Why don’t we do this salute thing right and meet up over at Klobber’s Knob Creek Saloon. Miss Kitty might be there to give you some mac & cheese cookin’ lessons. Maybe we can get TennPaul, Wayne and GregTN to come on over too.

If we can get JJS to get in here and quit sweet talkin’ those ladies we might come to some agreement on the cake delivery business. Wayne, don’t worry about that $50 a pound steak. Maybe Klobber can throw a pork shoulder in his smoker for BBQ all around. Speaking of BBQ, we can watch Lew send that troll back to where his lowly moniker is…in a hand basket.

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

Maybe Klobber can throw a pork shoulder in his smoker for BBQ all around.

I was just thinking how good a hartebeest brisquet would be.

Come on over to the saloon jjs. I’ll pull you a rootbeer and we can discuss distribution rights for red velvet cakes in the southeast. And bring your hartebeest too.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Jared-I think at this point in the offseason as well as during the spring, that with the lack of pitching available and the extent of pitching injuries we have seen in the past couple of years, that YES, we should pay attention to every single pitcher we have on our staff and every one we have under contract. To do otherwise is completely stupid and ill advised. The only locks in our rotation are Smoltz and Hudson.

Now, nothing has been said about any one of them being any better or worse than any other. That is something you fabricated all on your own, You really are looking at things @$$ end forward. If we pick up Glavine and another mid rotation pitcher, James, Cormier, Bennett, Hampton and Reyes WILL fight it out for the five spot in the rotation or, for that matter, for a spot on the pitching staff. What you, me or any other fan thinks of James is totally flipping irrelevant.

You need to realize that A. Chuck DID fade away late in the season, B. Chuck spent time on the DL with shoulder issues . C. Chuck was considerably less effective after his DL stint, as well as the second half of the season. D. Hampton has not pitched in 2 1/2 years. E.You have no idea until after winter ball if Hampton will ever pitch effectively again and maybe not even then. F. Cormier’s last couple of starts were improvements and quite encouraging. G. Bennett’s two starts were encouraging. H. Reyes last couple of starts were big improvements and were encouraging. I.Until they prove they are a cut above the rest, and are completely healthy and recovered, James and Hampton are question marks and as such are no higher in the pecking order than the rest of those mentioned. Dude-you really are making a mountain out of an ant hill and I’m still having trouble understanding your vehemence.

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Well now Ol Joe needs his usual and make it a double… Good to see Torre tell them thar Yanks where ta stick it!!! Go Tribe an Injun is still a Brave!!!

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

It’s official. Manny Ramirez is an idiot. If he doesn’t score and they lose by a run, that loss will be on his shoulders.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Jared-What in the world are you going to do if they invite Thomas Hanson or Dan Smith to Spring Training and they kick @$$? Will you have a coronary?

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

OK, very high recommendation for movie “Eastern Promises.” Damn fine movie, a must-see for any fans of good mob stories and/or David Cronenberg movies (he directed History of Violence (also starring Viggo Mortensen, who’s phenomenal in Eastern Promises), The Fly, Dead Ringers, Scanners, etc.

Anyway, this one’s got a lot of Godfather/Goodfellas in it, only it’s the Russian mob and it’s in London, and it’s got some typical Cronenberg moments not for the squeamish.

Viggo’s lean, menacing and tatted up, reminded me of Vito Corleone crossed with Travis Bickle.

Naomi Watts is the lead actress, and quite fetching.

Great story. Great movie.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

There’s nobody here but me and I’ll make him an offer he can’t refuse.

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

I have some Trade ideas:Try these on for size: 1 trade Martin Prado to St.Lois,for Anthony Reyes,both guys are available.2deal Chuck James,Scott Thorman,and A.Reyes to Oakland.for Joe Blanton,3 deal Edgar,T.Yates,and Sammons to S.F. for Noah Lowry,and Fred Lewis.then Deal Chad Paronto,and L.Cormier to the Cubs for J.Jones.then sign Jeff Conine,and Morgan Ensberg for the Bench. give the % spot to JoJo.and I smell W.S. just a thought care to elaborate??? I know it makes too damn much sense but thats what I’d do!!!

By Jared

October 18, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

What in the world are you going to do if they invite Thomas Hanson or Dan Smith to Spring Training and they kick @$$? Will you have a coronary?

There you go again. Why do you keep making this little exchange personal? Dan Smith and Thomas Hansen aren’t being mentioned by anyone as rotation candidates.

All I’ve ever said is I don’t think Bennett would post a sub-five ERA in 30+ starts and I don’t think he is an improvement over other possible starters. That’s it. Why is that so fricking evil? I haven’t smeared the man. It’s not personal with Bennett, I got nothing against him. I’ve never attacked him. Nothing I’ve written about him is even in the same zip code as some of the stuff written here about Bobby Cox, Andruw Jones, Adam LaRoche (in early 2006) or Bob Wickman.

I think Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James and Reyes are viable candidates. I think the Braves should use some combination of those five and whatever one or two new starters they bring in. I don’t trust Bennett or Cormier. Heck the Braves will probably non-tender Lance Cormier (last start: 2IP, 5R, 4ER).

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

And then Tell ol Glav to go on back to the Mutts if they’ll have him…..

By journalist jimmy smith

October 18, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

mmmm… can smell a cake cooking in the oven.

By Salty

October 18, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Manny won’t care if the loss is on his shoulders…he’s Manny being Manny. Big $$ athlete my….MMMMM! (I know there’s ladies in the house…somewhere).

Hartebeest brisquet, red velvet cake, root beer (w/hair), and KC…where else would you find such selections!?!

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

I wonder what Jim Rome is thinking of his beloved Man-Ram now,man that guy has the biggest man crush I’ve ever heard!!!!

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Oh, my. Now it’s getting to be a rough and tumble battle for cake delivery. Must not buckle under the pressure. Journalist is hitting below the belt and getting technical as a ploy to secure the cake delivery route. He has discovered a flaw in the Coastal Pony Express Desert (sic) Tasting and Delivery Company name. Desert…oh, no. Where’s my proofreader? Call the printer quick. Must not let this stand.

Must reprint those business cards immediately. Haste makes waste. A dropped “s” can change the course of history. Just imagine what the world would be without enough S’s. The eagle eye eteemed Journalit Jimmy mith? avannah Guy? United tates of America? President George Buh? The ound of muic? Chipper Jone? trap on the leotard? No elf-deprecation allowed here? See? Changes everything.

Is there no competive respect in the cutthroat cake courier business anymore? Seems Journalist will stop at nothing for a monopoly on cake handling.

This is getting ugly…very very very ugly.

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

For those of you who don’t know Jim Rome predicted Ramirez would hit a homer on his first AB tonight,and then boldly stated he would hit 2 taters!!!!!

By Salty

October 18, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

Speaking of root beer, jjs, what do you put in your’s? Your 4:09 ‘Sound of Music’ redux was a riot!

By Randy

October 18, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Has Fox been playing Widespread Panic during this broadcast? Don’t really know their new stuff, but sure sounds like them.

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

I got a Pineapple upside down cake on the cooldown!!!Yall want some!!!

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

No elf-deprecation allowed here?

I thought they preferred to be called “little people”. And it’s not nice to pick on people SG.

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

methinks Lofton can kick Becketts ARSE!!!1

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

Salty, hello friend. You’re right about Manny. If they lose this game they’ll crucify him in Boston. But you’re still right, he won’t care about that either.

It’s pretty bad when David Ortiz can score from first and Manny only makes it to first. David FREAKIN’ Ortiz. Fleet of foot are not words that enter my mind when thinking about him.

By Carolina Lady

October 18, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Don’t y’all dare mess with Hartebeest! Wouldn’t be fittin’. jjs sent him up here a couple of years ago to help out and he was a big hit with the deer herd. I often see deerharts about the property now. ‘Sides, ya’ll could never catch him! :-))

Chris, may I have a nice cold Diet Coke, please, sir?

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

joebrave, I don’t know. Beckett is six inches taller and 30 lbs. heavier and 13 years younger. Oh, and he’s a good ol’ boy from Texas. Advantage: Beckett.

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Top of the evenin ma’am,Ol Joe will be a mindin his manners thars a Lady in tha Saloon,Won’t be no troll slappin tonite!!!

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, good evening fair lady. I hope you are well.

What’s wrong with eating hartebeest? They are a little gamey but with enough mustard-based bbq sauce they are quite tasty!

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Pour me a double Klobber an tell JJs to kwit spittin them bird seeds on tha dang floor!!!

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

I’d take Beckett in that scrum. Big Ol’ Texan, about 6-4 and 245, and about 15 years younger than Lofton….

By Greg in TN

October 18, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

Evening lads and lasses…

SG, I think if we open up the courier service for cakes and pies and not limit ourselves to red velvet, we may be okay. Pies are certainly a hit on the blog too, and I’m all for jjs getting all the root beer he can drink as well as tasty pastries.

Things are getting a mite interesting up in the land of the Cuyahoga tonight. I don’t know that the Sox have much to jaw about what with Manny being Manny and all.

By David O'Brien

October 18, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Grinch, we’ve established at least two things this year: This is our country (Mellencamp) and there is only one October (Dane Cook).

And is Cook the least-funny comedian ever, or just one of the least?

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

joebrave, I don’t mind jjs spitting the birds seeds on the floor. When Lew gets ahold of a troll he likes to wipe up the floor with them. When there’s seeds on the floor he knows what part of the floor still needs cleanin’!

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Joebrave would like to be serious for a minute,I need your prayers,Two of my children are ill,My oldest girl is suffering from Scoliosis,and is to undergo corrective surgery to straighten her spine,and my youngest son is battling depression,they are both my babies,and I love them dearly,so if you guys would please pray for them to be okay,names are Kaitlin and Tyler!!!

By Jared

October 18, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

I guess I want the Indians to win it all just because Chief Wahoo drives the PC-police crazy.

By GermanBravesFan

October 18, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Torre out as Yankees manager? Looks like Robert should apply since he’s got all the answers…

I agree: Cook isn’t funny AT ALL!

On a better note: only one week to go to Bruuuuuuce’s Oakland show!!!

GO BRAVES!!!

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

joebrave, rest assured that good thoughts and prayers are in order for both of your children. I hope that good health and peace are in your near future.

Joe, while physical ailments are often easily noticed, many mental ones are not. I truly hope that your son is being treated for his depression. So many people view mental illnesses as a weakness and refuse treatment for it.

God bless all of you.

By Carolina Lady

October 18, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Chris, you don’t want to mess with the Hartebeest! When Jimmy first sent him, he mailed him. Yes, USPS. Poor Miss Martha hasn’t been well since.

And David, our UPS driver, seeing her distress offered to help out by finishing the delivery for her. He’s still looking for jjs! Took weeks to get his truck back together enough to make deliveries.

No, you DON’T want to mess with the Hartebeest!

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

Thanks Klobber,that means a lot….

By Greg in TN

October 18, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

Joebrave, I echo Chris’ sentiments. I wish nothing but the best for you and your kids.

By joebrave

October 18, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

Good night to all,see you guys on the morrow.Ol Joe gotaa lay it on down..

By Carolina Lady

October 18, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

JoeBrave, a large prayer team will be on this immediately. Prayer is offered by the whole group (which is scattered all over) at the same time every morning - and your kids will be at the top of the list. Concentrated focused prayer is extremely powerful.

We’re with you.

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, that is exactly what makes the hartebeest so delicious! The more difficult the hunt, the greater the reward.

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

joebrave You are asking for prayers? My good man, then you are already in the best of hands. You’ll also have my prayers, friend and those of our prayer circle.

I’ve known several folks that have has corrective scoliosis surgery and it’s gotten pretty routine and highly successful. I’ve known many, even close friends and family with depression… a combo of treatment and prayer works wonders.

Faith, hope, love…that’s all you need brother. Keep us posted on Kaitlin and Tyler.

By journalist jimmy smith

October 18, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith is a peacemaker of some renown. this journalist is probably as deserving of the nobel peace prize as al gore and jimmy carter. to wit: jimmy smith will forfeit all cake delivery claims in exchange for being the pie master of this blog (along with letwan, of course). pie master gets first shot at all pies.

and someone needs to do a little hartebeest research before deciding can put a hartebeest on a spit. this would be a tragic mistake of a barbecue attempt. best to stick with chicken.

By GermanBravesFan

October 18, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

joebrave - I don’t believe in prayer,but my thoughts are with you!

By journalist jimmy smith

October 18, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

carolina lady is right, joebrave. take comfort. best wishes for health and happiness for little joebraves from this journalist.

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

Some really good folks on this blog. Really good.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 18, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Amen SG

By Homer Simpson

October 18, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Hartebeest! Delicious!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 18, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

Looks like Rutgers is going to end USF’s title hopes….

By Lew

October 18, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Uh Jared-Could it possibly be because every single post you’ve made today quotes me and what I had previously posted? Every single post you’ve made Dude. Every one. All I’m doing is responding to you. If you don’t wish me to continue answering your posts, then quit reposting what I said.

For one thing, most of what you’ve said today is disingenuous at best and completely foolish at worst. I’ve responded to you using logic and careful explanation of what I have said-which is basically that given the state of pitching in MLB today, and as expensive as it is, that whenever a pitcher comes along who is cheap and who turned in a pretty damn decent couple of performances, you have to give the guy a shot to see what he can do on a more regular basis. You have responded with posts that seemingly question my intelligence for wanting to give the guy a chance.

I’ve tried telling you that I like James and Hampton just fine, but both are serious question marks at the moment, primarily due to injuries they both suffered. Dude, that’s a fact, no matter what you may think or wish to be true. Just because Bennett may be a dark horse candidate for the rotation, shouldn’t negate his chance to prove what he can do. He’s earned that much. As Ive pointed out, by your rationale, Moylan never should have even made it to Orlando last year, because we already had Gonzalez, Soriano and Wickman. Look how THAT turned out.

As far as making this all personal, You’re the one who has answered in a contentious manner, EVERY single time you’ve posted. That’s fine with me. Give it your best shot if you think you must, but don’t expect me to sit there and let you talk idiocy to me without responding. I guess by your reasoning, we shouldn’t even invite Cormier or Bennett to Spring Training. They can’t possibly add anything to our pitching staff-despite the fact that they already have. Why don’t you just give it up and go get some sleep? Maybe it will refresh your brain, which is, apparently, completely overtaxed and sorely in need of rest and relaxation. I’m really concerned you might stroke out.

By Carolina Lady

October 18, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

All right, now. Don’t make me come down there! (stern look!) You don’t want to deal with an angry Lady, I’m sure! taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptap

By TennesseePaul

October 18, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

Dane Cook?! That’s his name? He’s a comedian? How? Those commercials… I could do without those.

KATYA: He’ll be all right. I must go and be with Misha now. I don’t want you to come with me.

JERRY: Oh, why not?

KATYA: It has been three days since our night together. Misha said that was all the time I needed to put in.

JERRY: Really?

KATYA: In my country, they speak of a man so virile, so potent, that to spend a night with such a man is to enter a world of such sensual delights most women dare not dream of. This man is known as the “Comedian”. You may tell jokes, Mr. Jerry Seinfeld, but you are no Comedian.

By Lew

October 18, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

JoeBrave-I know for a fact that there is plenty of positive energy being sent in your direction by the denizens. That’s one thing we’re real good about. No matter how dysfunctional we may get here sometimes, we know when to be serious and do what needs doing. I hear that chocolate or Red Velvet cake helps greatly with depression. It certainly couldn’t hurt.

By chrisklob

October 18, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

Gil, did you watch the SFU/Rutgers postgame interview with Erin Andrews? Is “trickeration” really a word?

By Lew

October 18, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

JoeBrave-Just remember, Dude, even if your daughter can’t stand straight doesn’t mean she can’t stand tall.

By Savannah Guy

October 18, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

The renowned gentleman journalist is a peacemaker and bridge over troubled water of the best kind and it is agreed that he is also far and away more deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize than Al Gore, Jimmy Carter and many (most) of the winners in recent times. Global warming does not agree with fine cheese, pies, cakes, peach ice cream or root beer.

Since the Journalist was so peaceful and magnanimous in his peace offering, he will always be “cut in” on the tasting…uh, handling and delivery of cakes back and forth between Florida and North Carolina. Perhaps Journalist would be pleased with a title of: Mail Order Cake Quality Control Specialist?

There has never been any dispute that the esteemed Journalist is and always will be the pie master of the blog. Piemaster has dibs on all pies. Letwan and baby seal will not be denied such pleasure.

By Greg in TN

October 19, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

It’s a laugher now in Cleveland and Gil is right in that another #2 has gone down in flames.

Been to Tampa a handful of times, enjoyed it, lovely city, really nice folks, can’t beat the sunsets over the Gulf. Never seen a bull there, though. Can see Buccaneers, can understand Lightning, and although Devil Rays are pushing things a tad, I can even understand that. Are there problems with bulls running down Dale Mabry that the locals know about that the casual visitors don’t?

I think jjs would make a fine pie master (perhaps a pie ambassador would be a great title and may help jjs land the esteemed Nobel Prize).

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 19, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

Just Erin being Erin… :-)

By Jared

October 19, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

Could it possibly be because every single post you’ve made today quotes me and what I had previously posted? Every single post you’ve made Dude. Every one.

Lew, look at the post made on “October 18, 2007 10:43 PM” and see you’re wrong for what could be the tenth time today (or yesterday now).

I’m out.

By Britney

October 19, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

All this talk of cakes and pies, not one word about pop tarts. Now, where did I put my undies?

By Lew

October 19, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

GregInTn-Could you be referring to the Bulls of University of Tampa? That’s where Tino Martinez went. Don’t know about running down Dale Mabry, though(traffic’s so damn bad there, I don’t think ANYTHING could run on DM).

As for those sunsets over the Gulf-you didn’t see them in Tampa. You must be thinking about St. Pete. Tampa’s not on the Gulf-they’re on Tampa Bay. You should watch 4th Of July fireworks on St. Pete Beach sometime. It’s a great experience.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

Jared-Gee, one whole post all day. And Dude, you just responded to me again and quoted me yet again. What did I tell you. Go to bed.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Jared-Actually, to be out, you need to place both hands on your respective butt cheeks and push real hard. Your head can’t be lodged all that tightly-I don’t think so, anyway.

By Greg in TN

October 19, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

Lew, actually took in a few sunsets at Bradenton Beach. Really have to go back down to catch Gasparilla and spend more time in Ybor.

By Savannah Guy

October 19, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

Go Bosox!!! Just two more now…at home. Schilling will battle and win game 6.

Ok, I know many of you guys are pulling for the Indians for various reasons…from Cinderella to Indian icons to the comparative budget that Boston has in renting big talent (like the Yanks). I like what they’ve done this year too, especially with all the young talent flying under the radar. Gotta love’em.

But I’ve been a Boston fan for years…so I gotta pull for my boys. Hey, I’ll bet there is not one single Braves fan that would complain for 10 seconds about having the money in 08 that Boston has. Not one second.

Besides that, in the postseason especially, a hot team can win no matter the payroll. Playing budget or income “haves” against “have nots” is not a game I’ve ever played. Too defeatest and frankly socialist if you think about it.

If that ain’t enough, how’s this: If Boston pulls it out, which will be difficult against a great Cleveland team…we’ll get a classic David-Goliath matchup with the Rox. If that happens, I’ll actually go against my long held tradition to pull for the Rox yet hope for 7 games. The Rox are a fighting, scrapping, talented, hungry and righteous team.

If that ain’t enough…my Braves started as beaneaters. It’s like pulling for “the old sod”. Or check out Chief Tammany if you like Indians. He was a Brave and is still our icon, from beantown.

Ant converts? Am I lobbying? Nah…Whomever you like, it’s all just good baseball…

By Wayne being Wayne

October 19, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

joebrave Kaitlin and Tyler will be in our family prayer tonight.

Lofton vs Beckett squirmish: if Kenny gets to keep the bat, I have $20 on the old guy!

By Savannah Guy

October 19, 2007 1:05 AM | Link to this

Lew…don’t know how you got (one or two) obsessive stalkers after you tonight but you have not only managed just fine and straight up…your sense of humor during the exchanges has cracked me up. Your patience is admirable and demeanor commendable. And funny.

Now I’m gonna make like a tree and leaf. Must sleep. G’nite to you friend and to all good denizens.

By Wayne being Wayne

October 19, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this

SG I hear what your saying about the Bosox. With Manny being Manny, I gotta pull against him.

What a gaff tonight on the HR/Single!

CC seems to be letting the big game pressure get to him. I think Saturday’s game will be a great one with Schilling and Carmona.

Nite all.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this

Sleep Tight, Denizens. Watch out for the bedbugs.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 19, 2007 3:30 AM | Link to this

The Red Sox should clone Josh Beckett , the man is money. Joe Torre out of a job ? The Yankees are now rubbish along with the Mets for the rest of the off-season. 2008 can’t get here fast enough for New Yorkers , that is for damn sure. Jared , you are an amateur when discussing baseball. But, your also a rookie , we will excuse your lack of experience. Jeff Bennett can pitch , period. He is at this point a better pitcher than Both Chuck James and Lance Cormier and the entire Braves organization is nodding it’s collective head in agreement. If I had to rank the starters it would be : Hudson , Smoltz , Reyes , Bennett , James , Cormier and Carlyle. I can’t throw Hampton into the mix until the guy actually proves that he can stay healthy. By the way , Hampton is slated to start pitching full bore during November. Supposedly in either the Arizona fall league or the Mexican Pacific winter league. If I had my druthers , the five guys I would got to war with next season are Smoltz , Hudson , Glavine , Hampton and Bennett.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 4:15 AM | Link to this

Beckett may be a big strong Texas boy but no one has had a bigger gangsta lean than Kenny Lofton in the majors for the past two decades. He even runs with the gangsta lean. C.C. Sabathia’s hat has a perpetual gangsta lean to it. Everything Manny does has a gangsta lean to it.

People love giving Manny crap and he provides much ammo to his detractors but in a big spot, I want Manny up much more than I want any Braves hitter up at the plate.

Speaking of gangsta leans, let’s do a gangsta lean of the 40 oz. of Knob Creek to the memory of Joe Torre whose career is up in the gangsta lean now. Oooh, I just pulled off three different meanings of gangsta lean. How gangsta lean of me. Oops, a 4th meaning of it I pulled off. And I had a gangsta lean going while typing it on my laptop. Oh Lord, I am so white.

I think it was time for Torre to go but I almost changed my mind hearing that putz Randy Levine talk about Torre’s situation. To hear Levine say something like it was performance based offering him only $5 mil because “like the rest of us” we get paid in accordance with performance just made me sick. Randy Levine has never earned an honest dollar in his entire life. Everything he has was handed to him by his special and peculiar relationship with Steinbrenner.

It’s amazing. Anytime a team trades the likes of a Hanley Ramirez you would think the team would be laughed at for years. Not so. Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell have been just as good for the Bosox. I wonder if there was any other way they could have gotten their hands on Beckett without giving up Hanley. I guess not or we will never know if so at this point.

Fire Brian Cashman!

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 4:21 AM | Link to this

jimmy smith is a peacemaker of some renown. this journalist is probably as deserving of the nobel peace prize as al gore and jimmy carter. to wit: jimmy smith will forfeit all cake delivery claims in exchange for being the pie master of this blog (along with letwan, of course). pie master gets first shot at all pies.

damn! jjs really is the biggest gangsta of them all. jjs is pulling a tony soprano on the rest of the pony express. jjs is going back to his bootlegging roots. he just basically told y’all he will let you nickel and dime bag the pies and cakes so long as you kick back 20 points to him on every pie and cake you distribute. but remember he either gets 20 points or at a minimum 5 Gs a week. now, that’s gangsta. you better start earning if you want in on some of jimmy’s action.

yeah, jjs is a smart gangsta. he lets every one else nickel and dime bag it on the distribution end of things while he sits back and collects just like a true gangsta would do. that’s what t.i. has been doing for years. let’s just hope jimmy smith does not get sloppy like t.i. some day and want to show off some guns at his BET after party so he gets desperate and does something himself he usually makes others do for him. so much money and so little guns in his lair to show off to so many people expecting so much at his BET after party, so little time and so few people to get the guns from, so t.i. gets desperate and gets the guns himself. impatience and vanity will kill the gangsta every time.

jjs is like a pimp. he treats you just good enough so that you keep earning for him. yep, he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. just remember biggie’s ten crack commandments jjs. never get high off your own supply.

what is the mafia connection of jimmy smith? is he a blood or a crip? italian mafia or russian or irish? or is he one of the last living members of the dixie mafia? or is there a french connection? or is he a member of the black mafia family? the coastal brigade of the pony pie express should be wary of the eastern promises of journalist jimmy smith.

Pay your respects to JJS, The Godfather of the Pies and his consigliere Baby Seal.

All right, now. Don’t make me come down there! (stern look!) You don’t want to deal with an angry Lady, I’m sure! taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptap

Carolina Lady I think that may be the grand idea behind all of this. No one is eating the cake. They are just holding it hostage so you are forced to come down and grace them with your elegance and beautiful smile. JJS is a sly dog. I’m betting that is what he is up to. He just wants to see you. He’s been known to say that a moment in the presence of The Lady is worth more than a hundred cakes and pies. Be wary though JJS of those Greta Garbo stand off sighs and Bette Davis eyes.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 5:47 AM | Link to this

Jeff Bennett can pitch , period. He is at this point a better pitcher than Both Chuck James and Lance Cormier and the entire Braves organization is nodding it’s collective head in agreement. If I had to rank the starters it would be : Hudson , Smoltz , Reyes , Bennett , James , Cormier and Carlyle.

Cooch Again, you have to get all carried away with yourself. After 3 starts (that were just merely okay and not spectacular), you are ready to anoint Jeff Bennett I guess.

Over the last 2 years, the Braves are 28-20 when Chuck James starts. This is a 94.5 win pace for an entire 162 game season. On the other hand, the Braves are 135-141 over the last 2 years when Chuck James does not start. This is a 79 win pace.

In 48 starts in the majors in the last 2 years, he has pitched 269 innings, given up 259 hits, struck out 201 hitters, and walked 100. And, yeah, he’s given up an astounding 50 home runs. His ERA over that time period is 4.12. His personal record is 22-14.

Chuck’s ERA+ for his career is 109 which makes him 9 percent better than the average competition. It is kind of the equivalent of getting a 109 on an IQ test or scoring a 1090 on the SAT (double your score Cooch). JoJo Reyes on the other hand had an ERA+ of 69. He scored a 690 on his MLB SAT. JoJo is basically a Prop 48. We’re gonna have to work real hard to make him academically eligible to play next year. Maybe we can fix it so that Chuck can take the test for him. Anyone got a good fake ID that will make Chuck look like a JoJo Reyes?

But you want to go right ahead and say Jeff Bennett and JoJo Reyes are better than Chuck James. Based upon what besides the usual clueless proclamations and insight of the Cooch, I have no friggin’ idea.

The minor league and major league track records of JoJo Reyes and Jeff Bennett pale in comparison to Chuck James.

The Braves were 3-7 when JoJo started this year. JoJo was as much responsible for the Braves not making the playoffs this year as anybody. He really came up short when they were 0-7 in his first 7 starts. That killed this team. Chuck James has never killed the Braves like that from day one that he started starting halfway through last season.

So, forgive me if I don’t join the bandwagon of retards being led by the Cooch and start saying JoJo and Bennett are better than Chuck James when there is absolutely no factual evidence to support that claim. They might be better pitchers and might have more pitches but maybe that’s because they have to. The stuff Chuck has with two pitches is better than the stuff they have with 4 or 5 pitches and more pitching knowledge. The statistical results bear that out clearly and convincingly.

The quality is there with Chuck. The quantity is not. He needs to start averaging 6 innings a start. But regardless, 5 innings of Chuck has been light years superior to any other starting pitcher besides Hudson and Smoltz the Braves have thrown out there the last 2 years.

The Braves are 109-73 the last 2 years with Smoltz, Hudson, and Chuck starting. 54-88 when they don’t start. Chuck James is the least of the problems. But Cooch wants to chuck Chuck out with the bathwater.

I seriously doubt Braves management is collectively nodding their heads at any retarded thing you have to say. Did you get angry at the villagers when they made you walk around for the rest of your life with a Scarlet Letter S for Stupid permanently emblazoned on your chest?

BTW, I think Jared did get a bum rap yesterday. I think what he was overresponding to was what we just saw out of Coach. While no one explicitly said it yesterday, I’m betting Jared could see right through it and that idiots were gonna now say that Jeff Bennett is the Messiah as Cooch seems to believe. So, I think Jared overreacted but not really. He just had the foresight to read between the lines of what Cooch was saying and what Cooch was eventually gonna say. So, bravo to you Jared. Unfortunately, you and Lew had to tangle horns about it all. But I think you are probably both on the same side - your signals just got crossed about the overreaction to Jeff Bennett because you had the foresight to see where the idiot Cooch was going with it and Lew made the mistake of giving Cooch the benefit of the doubt on Cooch’s feelings about Jeff Bennett. I also overreacted but did not say anything because like Lew I was willing to give Cooch the benefit of the doubt. Besides, knowing Cooch, his head only swells when he starts making boneheaded proclamations. You give him enough rope, he’ll hang himself every time. So it’s best not to respond until he makes a complete a@@clown of himself. Unfortunately, he does this all the time.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 19, 2007 7:16 AM | Link to this

JoJo was as much responsible for the Braves not making the playoffs this year as anybody.

Wow, that is a little unfair. JoJo is what, all of 22 years old? He is going to be a real asset if given the time to develop. There were many reasons the Brave fell short this year but JoJo was just learning how to pitch. JoJo really does look stronger than Chuck James but face it, he is a completely different type of pitcher.

Chuck will not have long term success in the majors unless he can develop another effective pitch. He would do well to work on that during the off season rather than install windows. He can also be a little smarter and learn the batters better. It’s one thing to have no fear, another to have no clue.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this

Braveheart-Overreacted being the key word here. When I agreed with Coach, what I was agreeing to was the fact that Bennett showed good pitch selection, some sneaky velocity and the balls to go inside on hitters. This, to me, indicates that not only does he have some good stuff and a variety of pitches (including a real nice breaking pitch, but a bit of gumption to go along with it. This, in my opinion, makes it a worthwhile leap of faith to think he may be able to help us in 08, at an extremely decent price tag.

What Jared did was to attack me for wanting to suggest that not only did it look like Bennett should have a shot, but Cormier and Reyes as well-both of whom pitched much better their last couple of starts. This improvement and the encouraging look we had at Bennett, leads me to believe, that given Hampton’s and James’ injuries last year, that we did, indeed need to take a look at ALL pitching this spring.

Now, Dude, YOU of all people know that I came to James’ defense many times last year. I like the guy and think if healthy and learning another pitch, will be an extremely effective pitcher. I also feel he was misused as a number 3 starter last year (out of necessity), which helped to give him his bum rap.

My problem with Jared was his seeming unwillingness to see the benefit of looking at other options and his constant barrage, questioning everything I had to say. He has already decided what our rotation should be for next year. This, in my opinion is not going to happen until after Spring Training. I just don’t see the Braves management walking into Orlando and handing Chuck, or anyone besides Smoltz and Hudson a starting job without some competition.

For anyone to sit there and claim that a person will definitely have an ERA of over 5 runs per game (with no info to make this determination) is absurd on the face of it. To keep arguing about it for over twelve hours and then taking umbrage when someone disagrees in a logical and rational manner is foolish on the face of it. To attack me on it constantly is only inviting grief.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

Gil,

As always, you make fair, smart, educated points that are well taken. You have seen both of them at their best down in the minors so I appreciate your points more than most others. And you have a pretty good track record of predicting which call ups will work out best short term or long term.

Chuck does need to learn a third pitch. He won’t fool batters forever. More importantly, a third pitch might make him more economical and efficient in getting past 5 innings.

As for the comment about JoJo being as much of a reason we did not make the playoffs as any other, I do stand by it. It was unfair to the Braves not to have one pitcher besides Buddy step up the way Chuck did in 2006 and in 2007. It was impossible for this team to get anything going from the fifth starter spot until Cormier was called up in August.

Before then, the Braves were 2-15 from those guys which included at the time Reyes’ 0-7, Cormier’s 0-2, Redman’s 1-4, Larew’s 1-2. Throw in that the Braves were 1-6 in Kyle’s last 7 starts when he became the fifth starter in early June after the call up of Buddy and the Braves were looking at 3-21 out of those players with JoJo accounting for a third of the losses and none of the three wins.

That just slaughtered the playoff chances. It also slaughtered the bullpen. The bullpen not coincidentally suffered horribly in June and early August due to the ineptitude of these starters.

Fortunately, we eventually got 7-5 out of them in the last two months but by then it was already too late and there was too much ground to make up.

We ended up 10-26 out of those guys. A .500 or so record would have given us a division title. So while it might be unfair to pick on a kid who was not ready it was unfair to the Braves to be pitching a kid who was not ready. The majors ain’t a place for kids to learn. Not when the team is in a pennant chase.

You can say alot of things about Chuck James but no one has babied him with the excuse of not being ready. As unready as he is with only two pitches, he somehow statistically speaking keeps putting his team in the win column 58% of the time. And he has done it for 48 starts which is pretty significant.

By Ray

October 19, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

Goodmorning all. Lofton last night. Reminded me of the days when he and Randy Johnson would jaw at each other. Typical Lofton when someone was very close to him then he would make a move, as he is about to be “held back.” Dave, I agree Dane Cook not too funny but his promos are good. And the Chevy commercials, excellent especially with Cal. They speak for themselves. On a Baseball note, do you think when it comes to contracts and free agents that Wrenn will serve the Braves better since apparently he has a better relationship with agents than JS did?

By Michael in Brooklyn

October 19, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

DOB!

I’m enjoying the blog, culling the Internet for information on the Braves while studiously avoiding work…

I have a question for you (or for anyone else, for that matter). What do Cody Johnson, Jason Heyward, and other low minor leaguers do in the offseason? If they’re not playing in Hawaii, Arizona, or Latin America, is there some sort of year-round workout system in place? Or is it like the old days where they go back home and work in a butcher shop or install windows or something? I assume there’s no game information to follow, but I’m just curious about what they do, especially since most recent draftees won’t start their seasons until next June.

Thanks. And by the way, nothing’s better than The Wire.

By chrisklob

October 19, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

Michael, if they aren’t playing instructional league ball, or wherever, they go home and are expected to keep themselves in shape. A lot of them work because it gives them something to do and also because they don’t make squat playing ball, especially in the lower minors.

We have a Yankees affiliate in my town and those players get a very large three ring notebook after the last game outlining what they should be doing in the off-season, from a P.T. standpoint.

As I recall, spring training for most minor leaguers starts around March 1, except for the guys that get an invite to big league camp. The guys who don’t get selected for Low A stay in camp in what’s called “extended spring training”.

By ncscoots

October 19, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

Braves/MIB once again makes a statement for being considered the best sports blog in America, if not the known universe. Only here can you get in-context references to Travis Bickle. Shuhhh-weet.

Planet Manny is an interesting place, no doubt. He might be a total whack-job, but be honest…when he’s in the batter’s box, don’t you wish he were YOUR whack-job?

The Wire is mondo, no discussion (last season coming up, BTW). But, since The Sopranos, no TV has grabbed me like Damages.

Ah, the offseason. Drive-by blogging is about the best I can do this time of year, but it’s good to see the blog rockin’.

Travis Bickle. Boo-yah.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 19, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Braveheart The point I am trying to make is JoJo is a very good young pitcher. In fact, I will dare to say that over the long haul he will have a better record than Chuck James.

There has to be a bigger expectation to bring in a veteran than a really young rookie before their time. It is the nature of the game. Some of it has to do with learning how to pitch vs learning how to throw.

Often when the expectations of a fan base is too high, young players are not given the opportunity to fail. They are cast aside too quickly or begin to doubt their own abilities. I don’t know if you play golf but I can tell you it is often self doubt that is the difference in carrying the water hazard and taking a dip.

The Braves were very close to having a phenomenal year last season. They have not had the horses for several years now to be a serious contender.

By Shaun

October 19, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Manny’s comments kind of reminded me of the movie Fever Pitch when the Red Sox fans are sitting at the bar depressed and Trot Nixon, Varitek and Damon are sitting and having a steak dinner. And Ben (Jimmy Falon) says something like “why shouldn’t they enjoy their dinner? They did their best.”

By Ray

October 19, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Manny being Manny of course. Nice long single.But the question is how long do you go on using that excuse. IF it was 9th inning and Manny gets to first and then Lowell grounds into a dp. Would the sentiment still be Manny being Manny? Hypothetical I know but come on. Can the guy hit, absolutely. Can he field, questionable. Fenway suits him perfect. Short outfield. I know off on a tangent.

By Shaun

October 19, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Not to get all sensitive but I think often times we use only results-based analysis and assume if a team doesn’t win, it’s necessarily because they didn’t do their best or they weren’t trying. That’s a rather big assumption, in my opinion.

By Paladin an occasional lurker

October 19, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

JoeBrave Kaitlin and Tyler will be in my prayers as well as you too, big guy. And God answers all prayers that are sincere.

By Braves4Ever

October 19, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

* GIL * I was reading on a Tiger’s blog. Their discussion of Bonderman sounds just like our discussion of James. A two pitch pitcher without a clue. I loved that line. I am pulling for Chucky, but he has to be “smarter” to stay around.

By Fido Bennett

October 19, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Yes, it is true. I left a surprise on Jared’s lawn.

By Betsy

October 19, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, You know what you remind me of? That song by Kris Kristofferson. A songwriter. ‘He’s a prophet… he’s a prophet and a pusher, partly truth, partly fiction. A walking contradiction.

You ask if I’m sayin’ that about you? Who else would I be talkin’ about? You say you’re no pusher? No, no. Just the part about the contradictions. You are that.

By chrisklob

October 19, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Paladin, where the heck have you been?

By Wayne in Utah

October 19, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Maybe the Tigers would trade Bonderman for Chuckie then? Kind of payback for McBride for Ledesma???

By ncscoots

October 19, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Often when the expectations of a fan base is too high, young players are not given the opportunity to fail.

True enough, Gil. The thing that made the Braves so formidable during the streak was their ability to NOT rely on young players before their time; to bring along one or two young players a year, said players knowing they didn’t have to carry the team, or even contribute heavily, just contribute and learn how to play at the ML level.

No longer the case, I’m afraid. Not enough money. Heck, the team looks to have even less total ML experience next year than this, even. 180 degrees from the days when a Kevin Millwood in his prime could come up as a fifth starter.

By Braves4Ever

October 19, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

joebrave Add me to the list of people praying for you and yours. May God bless you all.

By Braves4Ever

October 19, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

I think the Tigers would trade Bonderman for Chucky and a couple other pieces. They may be our best bet for a Renteria trade . Maybe we could use Edgar and Chucky and a couple minor prospects and get Bonderman and Miner/Miller. Probably dreaming but hey it’s still Oct.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, You know what you remind me of? That song by Kris Kristofferson. A songwriter. ‘He’s a prophet… he’s a prophet and a pusher, partly truth, partly fiction. A walking contradiction. You ask if I’m sayin’ that about you? Who else would I be talkin’ about? You say you’re no pusher? No, no. Just the part about the contradictions. You are that.

Nah, sorry, Betsy, not a walking contradiction. Just a sociopath who forgot to take his meds this morning. I do love being called a contradiction by a man posting on a blog with the name of a woman. What the hell is that all about? You can’t be much more of a contradiction than a sick perv who does something like that.

Hey, Paladin, showed up. Paladin, screw off.

Alright, back to working on maintaining my thin grasp on my remaining sanity.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Chuck, Tex, Renteria, Schafer, JoJo

for

Bonderman, Miller, Granderson, Guillen

back to the crack pipe now

By ncscoots

October 19, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Bonderman is a honey trap. Lots of buzz still remaining from his early success, but…ERA under league average just once; career WHIP around 1.30 (not a good number, and consistent over the years); and, the most damning, a back-loaded contract that pays him like a #2 starter. He isn’t. A good league-average pitcher who might qualify as a solid mid-rotation 3/4 guy, yes, but very unlikely to become a staff ace or top-tier starter. He’s not worth overpayment in a trade scenario, not with his contract.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Yes, Lew. We are both very pro-chucky. In fact you are so pro-chucky I think the two of us even got into disagreements because I thought you were too pro-chucky.

By Braves4Ever

October 19, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

I agree ncscoots, Bonderman isn’t a number one. At best a number three . I wouldn’t trade Edgar straight up for Bonderman. But would he be a better option than say ,Robertson, who many think we might try for. What about Miller, is he too unproven? Looks like he could be a stud but proved he wasn’t quite ready last year.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 19, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Another amateur blogger who doesn’t know his head from his A-hole when it come to quality pitching. I was as shocked as anyone watching the obvious regression of Chuck James this past season. He threw a dozen quality starts in 2006 in just eighteen starts while posting an ERA of 3.78 and then in 2007 , reality came home to bite. The advance scouts figured out his deceptive delivery and hitters started laying off his change up while sitting on his very pedestrian 88-90 MPH fastball to the tune of a 4.24 ERA. He found that two pitches won’t get it done in the big leagues. He had just eleven quality starts in thirty total games compared to the dozen he had in just eighteen games in 2006. The thirty-two HR’s that James gave up were even more evidence of the obvious need for a breaking ball/third pitch. Not to mention that those 32 long ball’s were the third most in the entire N.L. Opponents batted .232 against James in 2006 and .265 in 2007. This is a long winded way of saying , Chuck James regressed in his second full season as a starter. Braveheart , if you can’t agree with this fact , your either blind or you must really hate math.

By ncscoots

October 19, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Braves4Ever, Bonderman appeals if the Tigers eat some contract, but why would they? Robertson profiles lower than Bonderman, and is a lefty to boot (already lots of lefties coming to Braves’ camp). Miller has ceiling, but I think Braves trade for more of a proven commodity before they trade for potential.

Tigers would love to have Renteria, no doubt, but where’s the equitable fit for the Braves?

By Paladin an occasional lurker

October 19, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Alright, back to working on maintaining my thin grasp on my remaining sanity.

Too late. Nurse Ratched is getting a bed ready for you.

By Thrillhouse44

October 19, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Amateur blogger? Is anyone, besides DOB, a professional blogger?

By Travis

October 19, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Betsy. Hi, it’s Travis. Travis “Braveheart” Bickle. Perv? Sick perv? You talkin’ to me? You talkin’ to me? Are you talking to me?

How ya doin’? Listen, uh, I’m, I’m sorry about the, the other night. I didn’t know that was the way you felt about it. Well, I-I didn’t know that was the way you felt. I-I-I would have taken ya somewhere else. Uh, are you feeling better or oh you maybe had a virus or somethin’, a 24-hour virus you know. It happens. Yeah, umm, you uh, you’re workin’ hard. Yeah. Uh, would you like to have, uh, some dinner, uh with me in the next, you know, few days or somethin’? Well, how about just a cup of coffee? I’ll come by the, uh, headquarters or somethin’, we could, uh… Oh, OK, OK. Did you get my flowers in the…? You didn’t get them. I sent some flowers, uh… Yeah, well, OK, OK. Can I call you again? Uh, tomorrow or the next day? OK. No, I’m gonna… OK. Yeah, sure, OK. So long.

By Paladin an occasional lurker

October 19, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Klobber I’ve been here but between Shaun, Lew, Braveheart and Cooch, who can get a word in. :>)

By Betsy & Travis

October 19, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Since you are a walking encyclopedia of movie dialogue and like talking gangsta’s, pimps and the like, just thought you might have fun with a little Taxi Driver. And I just knew you would get it. But no.

Guess it was too subtle and probably did come off looking kind of out of context weird. So sorry. My bad. Have a good one.

By DAP

October 19, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

joebrave my thoughts are powerless. i will be praying for your children.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 19, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Jeremy Bonderman ? NO THANK YOU. Him of the career 56 wins and 62 losses. In his 157 career starts he has a team record of 73 wins and 84 losses. His 5.01 ERA in 2007 and remaining three years/ 33.5 million contract screams M-E-D-I-O-C-R-E.

By Shaun

October 19, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me why Brian Cashman gets a pass while Joe Torre is shown the door. I mean, I realize Torre should get some blame and I don’t think firing him was necessarily a bad move but why does Cashman get a pass?

I mean surely we expect the Yankees to be smart enough to realize pitcher K-rate and defense matters a great deal in the post-season. Torre is generally getting too much credit for the championships and too much blame for the playoff exits, but baseball’s a GM’s game. I’m not sure if Cashman should be let go, but shouldn’t the question at least be asked?

By Lew

October 19, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Paladin-Us having conversations ain’t never shut you up before. Why now?

By DAP

October 19, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

coach i think we all observed chuck james’ struggles this year, and no one has ignored them. but, i think your are being a little to quick to be rid of him. he actually has impressive stats for a guy who has been starting for a year and a half. really, his only BAD stat is homeruns allowed…which is really bad. other than that, he stikes people out, he doesnt walk alot of guys, and he had an ERA in the low 4s. chuck james has plenty of problems to work out, but he hasnt even been pitching 2 full years! i think he will be a good one, and i really hope the braves dont trade him.

i think his main problem is he has to hit bats. if guys hit the ball, they can often hit it hard, so he tries to miss bats, and the hitters are patient and they make him throw strikes. if he can figure out a pitch that he can throw expecting the batter to hit it to someone, like a sinker or a cutter, that will help him get outs faster and go deeper into games. if he can just average three of four more outs per game, that will be a huge improvement (will make him a 7 inning guys instead of the 6 inning guy he is now)

coach dont ignore games like september 19th, where chuck proved he could be a great pitcher.

By eware

October 19, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you listened to any of Grace Potter and the Nocturnals stuff? They’re amazing. Plus, Grace Potter is a smokin’ broad.

If you haven’t check out the song “Mastermind” - catchiest, most moveable thing I’ve heard since “Home” by Marc Broussard. Don’t hate for that one - its hard for a song to catch me.

By DAP

October 19, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

shaun torre didnt get fired. he was offered $5mil and said no thanks. it was definetly the right move. after what stienbrenner said, he was justified to resign before the team played another game, but he was too classy for that. when stienbrenner wanted to give him a pay cut he just said K-A-T, im outta here.

classy guy, joe torre.

By TennesseePaul

October 19, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

I didn’t really follow the Indians closely in the regular season. They’re AL, I spend my time watching NL. But I knew they’d be a good team. Any way, I never paid much attention to first names until this series. In particular, Carbrera. The man clad in pearls with the first name Asdrubal, Assdrible, or whatever it is. A name like that… he shouldn’t wear a pearl necklace. He shouldn’t wear it anyway, but he’s already got people making double takes everytime his name is spoken, and he follows that up with a pearl necklace.

This is baseball. There’s no pearl necklaces in baseball.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Eware-Grace and The Nocturnals are a local band from up here in Vermont. I’ve been telling everyone about them for over a year now, and got DOB a copy of their first CD with his Wurlitzer drawing. I saw them up here in May at an Opera House with great acoustics.

You’re right she is smokin’. She’s also one hell of a musician and singer. If you like their CD, go out and try to catch them live-they’re 10 times better in concert. She;s only 22 and the band has been together for six years. They have been touring and opening for Govt. Mule recently. They’re playing three nights right before and on New Year’s eve. I think the tickets sold in like half an hour. Unfortunately, I’m not going to be able to go.

By Braves20

October 19, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Good luck to the poor SOB who follows Torre in NY. You can almost see the Yankee Coaching Carousel returning.

Not a big fan of Cox but he like Torre gets you there virtually every year and as people who know baseball far better than this southern redneck have said - once you get to the playoffs, a lot of what follows is luck. See 1991.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Be careful there, Dude-in these days of relaxed sexuality, you never know.

By Phillip Morris

October 19, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Plus, Grace Potter is a smokin’ broad.

Which brand does she smoke? Camels? Virgina Slims? Cuban cigars?

By TennesseePaul

October 19, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me why Brian Cashman gets a pass while Joe Torre is shown the door

Both Torre and Cashman have supporters in the Yankees. The Boss isn’t as “strong” as he was in the past. This should be obvious. Even after threatening to fire Torre, he not only was not fired, he was offered a contract extension. While the contract wasn’t to his liking, do you honestly think he’d even had that opportunity if the Boss was in full form? Didn’t think so. Torre left at the end of his contract. Cashman is still under contract. Hence the situation.

What you should be asking is why the manager has to have an option vesting on WS results but none of the players do.

By Steamboat

October 19, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I made that point the day Steinbrenner publicly gave Torre the “win or be fired” ultimatum.

The Yankees simply haven’t had good pitching this decade. It’s been good enough to get to the postseason (thanks to the bruiser offense), but not good enough to dominate in the playoffs.

In the Yankees WS championship years, their pitching was always near the top of the league (in era, anyway - don’t know about strikeouts). The last several years, it’s been middle of the pack. That’s Cashman’s fault, not Torre’s.

I have no problem with the Yanks deciding to make a change. But the way they handled it was a joke. I’d love to have the Yankees’ payroll, but the whole thing makes me appreciate the professionalism of the Braves’ organization.

By Shaun

October 19, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

DAP, yes, I know Torre didn’t get fired; bad choice of words on my part. And I do agree that Torre is extremely likable and classy, from what I can tell. And I agree that there was no need for Steinbrenner to say what he said.

But Colin Coherd was talking about this on his show: Why does he get all the credit in the world for the Yankee championships yet no one wants to put any blame on him for the Yankees losing? Seems to me if you want to put him on a pedestal and make him a legend for the Yankees World Series championships, you also have to hand him some blame for their playoff loses.

As I said, I think he’s getting too much credit for winning and too much blame for losing but I think folks ought to be consistent in their opinion of him.

And why does Torre get so much credit and blame when Cashman gets a pass for not building a team that is more likely to succeed in the playoffs in the first place?

By TennesseePaul

October 19, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Lew: Freedom of choice is prevalent in this country and in the world. But every choice has a consequence. It’s just a fact of life.
The man is wearing a pearl necklace. If he can’t handle the consequences that go with it, perhaps he should re-think his choice.
The name though… perhaps it was to toughen him up, a-la boy named Sue. But you can’t get tough and then sport a pearl necklace.

By Paladin an occasional lurker

October 19, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry Lew. I forgot you do not kid the blog’s oracle. Lost my head.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Mostly the consequences are dealt with using a handkerchief. Maybe he has deeper rooted problems

By Shaun

October 19, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, yeah, reportedly Steinbrenner hasn’t had much control for a while now.

The questions for me are a) Why does Torre get so much credit and blame? and b) Why is Cashman immune?

I do think the players have an option vested in playoff results and results in general. They get traded or dropped if they don’t perform and they get big contracts when they do.

Steamboat, I agree. That’s also my point. Why doesn’t Cashman or someone in the Yankee front office realize that pitcher K-rate and defense increase chances for post-season success? It’s not like they don’t have the resources to build a good team around those things.

By PrivateClub

October 19, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Neat little private club you people have here!

By eware

October 19, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’d like to see them when they come with Govt. Mule this month, but I refuse to see bands I like as openers. I’m always expecting more, but they’re unable to give it, as the headliner is coming on next.

By Bo

October 19, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

JoeBrave, I will put your kids on prayer list at church and locale radio station. You got to believe and have faith. God bless your family and the USA.

By Lew

October 19, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Paladin-Oracle? You been dipping into the blood pressure meds, Old Fart, Sir?

Eware-Go see them anyway. It will probably be a couple years before they get to headline-or you can try to catch them in Vermont. They always headline here. Besides, if you haven’t seen Govt. Mule, you should. Warren Haynes is the only slide guitarist I’ve ever seen that can come close to Duane Allman. They put on a great show, too. Well worth the ticket price, I assure you. DOB will tell you the same thing.

By MEB

October 19, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

joebrave God bless Kaitlin and Tyler! May He also give you strength and comfort as you take care of your family.

By Club Security Guard

October 19, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

PrivateClub Back away from the window now, you’re getting nose grease and palm prints all over the glass and making the Club patrons nervous. If you want to join, simply use a realistic sign-in and contribute to the conversation. Then, we’ll see.

Club rule 123: No pearl necklace wearing.

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 19, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Steinbrenner’s feeble attempt at depracating Joe Torre has only served to further endear Joe to Yankee fans…

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Betsy & Travis. My bad. You got me good on that one.

By Shaun

October 19, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss, yeah. I think both sides are half wrong. The front office may be blaming Torre too much and the fans may be deifying him too much.

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 19, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

The Steinbrenners should have had the balls to just fire ol’ Joe…but it’s cash they have…not balls…

TheSouthernJackAss enjoys blogging with TheSouthernJackAss…nothing but intelligent conversation that way…

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 19, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun—agreed…

By journalist jimmy smith

October 19, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

yankees get a new manager. braves get a new general manager. both teams are out of it in october. will frank wren dare replace bobby cox? not a chance.

and will frank wren be held accountable at season’s end? absolutely! would anyone blogging here keep bobby cox in the dugout? many would.

but what of replacing bobby? let bobby remain as a figurehead in the front office (warning: don’t touch bobby’s desk or phone or much of anything in the room).

of course, firing bobby cox and having the team tank would surely lead to wren’s dismissal. but the losses add up and keeping bobby cox and suffering defeats (from poor in-game management) could lead to wren’s early exit as well.

the new gm should have the ability to hire a new manager. let’s see what wren and wren’s manager can put together and see if this team can again perform. run, steal bases, hit behind runners, throw to the cutoff, and b-u-n-t.

“here, frank, you are now gm. bobby and all bobby’s coaches will be back and we’ve given five prospects away for tushy with no real hope of keeping him past next season. have at it.”

By journalist jimmy smith

October 19, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

and in conclusion to this blog, jordan schafer is a girl’s name.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

The reality is the Yankees can go out and pay someone 10% of what Torre wants to be paid and get the same result: 90 something wins and bounced from the first round with the highest payroll by a wide margin. He got too much credit for what Stick Michael and Buck Showalter built and handed off to him and has gotten far too much blame for the boneheaded personnel decisions of Cashman, Steinbrenner, and Steinbrenner’s cronies down in Tampa.

By Paladin an occasional lurker

October 19, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

I tried to get the blog off my mind, by going to the market. Then, the guy in front of me is displaying 3 or 4 inches of butt-crack. It brought so many of my old friends, here, to mind. So, I rushed back to find SJA and Shaun having a civil conversation and Lew and TN-Paul talking about people wearing pearl necklaces, and Bravheart hardly talking at all. I’m going to have to tell Nurse Ratched that the first lobo didn’t “take” or it took too well.

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

i’m getting old like you paladin. got to take my naps these days - especially when i am blogging because i can’t sleep in the middle of the night.

joe torre is amazing to watch in this press conference - in complete control - so poised. what a dignified man. but it’s time for the yankees to move on.

By Shaun

October 19, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, don’t know how much Showalter “built” the Yankee dynasty of the late ’90s. And I don’t want to come across as if I’m trying to disrespect the job Torre did. He still had to win under high scrutiny and expectations.

But I just think it’s inconsistent for people to want to overly exalt him for the championships and not place any blame on him for the playoff exits. I also think it’s inconsistent for Yankees management to not even question Cashman.

But you make a good point. Unless they hire complete dopes (at both GM and field manager), they’ll win 90-plus games a year.

By TheSouthernJackAss

October 19, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss has no problem with civility…when civility is shown to TheSouthernJackAss…

By Buffalo NY Braves fan

October 19, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Coach,

18 starts is not a full season….. Chuck James just experienced his first full season. After 18 starts this season, Chuck James had very similar stats to last season (from what I can remember… I don’t have them in front of me)

Just figured I would point that little mistake out for you.

Maybe he will spend this off-season correcting what went wrong.

By Phillip Morris

October 19, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Knowing that you have relieved 19.5 million dollars over the past three years from George Stinbrenner’s wallet will make you feel confident and poised. The man can now start drawing Social Security and laugh all the way to the bank.

Let’s see…. $2000 month from Uncle Sam should just about cover Joe’s green fees each month.

Look for Joe to take up a hobby like doing color analysis for ESPN until he wants to manage again, likely St. Louis.

By David O'Brien

October 19, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Hey folks, JUST POSTED NEW BLOG

By Braveheart

October 19, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Shaun, Showalter was instrumental in building those teams. Stick Michael was the biggest but Buck Showalter was also the minor league manager for alot of the guys who became instrumental parts of their rebirth like Bernie Williams, Gerald Williams, Bob Wickman, Jim Leyritz and many others. Buck Showalter knew their minor league system inside and out and the minor league systems of other teams because he had been a minor league player and minor league manager for so many years. He understood the importance of that minor league system that became the nucleus of those championship teams. Stick & Buck were a tandem in building that team just like Bobby Cox and John Scheurholz were here. That was why when the Yankees fired Buck, the Diamondbacks were willing to give Buck Showalter complete control over almost all aspects of the development of their team during the early years of their franchise.

By mo in the boonies

October 19, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

For those of you who critized my post about Savannah Guy’s 10/24/9:24 post, this is the part that got my hackles up.

Thing is, I realize that most of you denizens don’t need to read this. For you, I’ll say as Skip might say at this point, “you are free to walk the dog.

To me this reads, all you good old boys, and you know who you are, don’t need to read this, just those dummies who think they know baseball, but we know different don’t we? (wink, wink… implied) How condescending can you get?

To the short-sighted blathering ones that nit pick and slam JS as a bad, incompetent and overrated GM that has made mostly bad trades, let me just give you some news: those characterizations are patently and diametrically opposed to the truth. They are nonsense and they are unfair. Most everyone that is actually involved in baseball knows that…but evidently some Braves fans don’t. No surprise there

I , and I’m sure my fellow nit-pickers do not appreciate being termed short-sighted or blathering, just because in your opinion, and some of the good old boys, think Schuerholz and Cox walk on water, doesn’t mean that those of us who disagree are: “blathering nit-pickers”, you may as well have added idiots, because it was certainly implied. Perhaps some of us just happen to have the advantage of distance from Atlanta, and the south, and we can see things from a different perspective than you all. Either way it is still just opinion. And since I don’t imply that you all are blathering idiots, I expect to be treated with the same respect. If that is regarded as being a disagreeable poster…then so be it. I came here in peace to talk baseball, I don’t criticize your pub talk or all the other fun and games that goes on here that has nothing to do with baseball, and I don’t post filthy stuff. I figure that is your right to post what ever you like, all I ask, is to be able to do the same without being denigrated.

Wayne being Wayne

I think I answered the other day in my post that the reason you never hear anything bad said about Cox or Shuerholz is because the news columnists in and around Atlanta have never been very diligent in reporting any of the dumb stuff the “anointed” have done over the years. Therefore news people and other baseball people around the country think that if Atlanta thinks they are wonderful, then they must be. Otherwise why keep them. Why indeed I wonder? After all these years where are the young prospects in the farm clubs for Pitching, and Center field etc. The ones, (excluding the three who have, Francouer, McCann, and perhaps Escobar) they have brought up haven’t proved to be of much use… compared to other teams with less budget, who seem to have oodles of talent on call. We have heard all year from all you apologists that the team failures are not the fault of Cox… so perhaps they are because Shuerholz hasn’t recruited or traded for anyone good enough to be WS capable. And if neither one is to blame then who is? The buck has to stop somewhere. Even Joe Torre only got so many chances to put up or shut up.

As for your butcher comparison, lets see, for a rib eye, $50..a pound..that’s about one steak. If I needed the steak, I’d pay the bucks. Especially if that was the going rate at all the shops, and I knew it was a damn good steak, probably the best in the world, and I’d never see another one like it. Or I’d at least ask, if he wanted to dicker a little on the price of steak, since it had been in the case a whole day and hadn’t been sold yet. Sometimes pride and/or arrogance goeth before a fall. And it looks like Schuerholz getting kicked upstairs was his fall.

As for Boras caring only about the cash, name me someone who doesn’t care about money. If you could get 20 mil a year would you turn it down? Almost everyone on here thinks Andruw is greedy for asking for what ever his market value is, but who among you would turn down that kind of money if you had a chance to get it?