Braves, Glavine to dance again?

AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > October > 05 > Entry

By David O'Brien | Friday, October 5, 2007, 01:00 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

He will decline his $13 million option with the Mets sometime this afternoon, at which point begins with the Braves the Tom Glavine Ultimatum, Part 2 (or is it Part 3?)

The Braves want him, and he definitely wants the Braves. So please, for all that is Holy (and for the vacation and comp time I’d like to take in November) can GM John Schuerholz and agent Gregg Clifton please settle this negotiation early, this time around?

There’s no need for it to drag out to early December like it did last year, when Glavine finally said “enough” and returned to the Mets after the Braves dragged their feet on making him an offer, with the explanation that they were scrambling to clear up payroll before they could make him an offer, and that it might have come in a day or two if he hadn’t called off the process before the annual baseball winter meetings.

No excuses for the Braves this time, unless it’s just, they don’t want to pay Glavine as much as he wants to be paid. There’s no question he’ll take a hometown discount, compared to the $13 mill he would make from the Mets if he returned to them. I’d guess he’d take less than $10 mill to return to the Braves, and that it will only take a one-year commitment to get it done.

He’s 41, wants to be around his family in Alpharetta instead of flying his wife and kids to New York or some other place on weekends during the school year, and wants to finish his career with Bobby Cox, John Smoltz and the Braves.

Make it happen. Not because Glavine’s an ace at the peak of his career, but because he’s still a very good middle-rotation-quality starter who’ll pitch like a No. 1 or No. 2 many nights, who’ll probably give you 200 innings and 34-45 starts like he has every season, and be a great influence on young pitchers such as lefties Jo-Jo Reyes and Chuck James, assuming they’re still here.

If you can get him for $9 mill, give or take a mill, in this market that’s a bargain. And also - this is important - because it’s only a one-year commitment, it should permit the Braves to go hard after a trade for a younger quality starter, a guy like Oakland’s Dan Haren or Joe Blanton, who could be available only because perpetually tight-budgeted Oakland needs to reload with prospects and knows it might have to dump one of its quality young arms to get a few young players in return.

I’m not for cleaning out the minor league system, especially after the Braves already traded several top prospects to get Mark Teixeira, but if you could get Dan Haren, a potential top-of-rotation guy who’s got three seasons left on a very reasonable four-year, $12.65 mill contract that includes salaries of $2.2 mill in 2007, $4 mill in 2008, $5.5 mill in 2009 and a $6.75 mill club option for 2010, then you do it, even if it costs you a good young prospect or two such as Brent Lillibridge and/or Reyes, or perhaps a couple of prospects and a Kelly Johnson.

Haren’s a young ace with an affordable contract. Nothing is more valuable or important to most teams. The A’s would only be trading him because they know that and know they have other pitching and could fill a couple of holes. Again, not certain they would trade him now, but it’s possible.

Blanton has won 14, 14 and 15 games the past three seasons, averaged over 220 innings in that stretch, and had 192 strikeouts in 222 innings this season with a 3.07 ERA in the AL. He’s 6-foot-5, solidly put together, and only 26 years old. He could be a durable rotation leader for a long time, or co-leader (while Hudson’s here).

Don’t know if they can get him, but they can sure try. I hear from reliable sources out West that Haren and/or Blanton will be available this winter or next. If they couldn’t get Haren, Braves could probably pry Blanton away this winter. He’s not nearly as good, but he’s solid, especially as a No. 3-4 guy.

And Blanton wouldn’t require as much in trade, and has three seasons to go before he’s eligible for free agency. He’s a first-time arbitration guy, has won 30 games the past two seasons (14-10 this year), and pitched 230 innings this season with a 3.95 ERA.

You would pay Glavine and either one of these guys less combined in 2008 and than you’d pay any of the few good free-agent pitchers on the market, and about $5-7 million or more less than you’d have to pay a Johan Santana in 2008 (not that he’s a Braves option; too rich for this payroll).

Imagine, if you will, a Braves rotation with Smoltz, Hudson, Haren (or Blanton), Glavine, and Hampton (if healthy, he has to be in it because of salary). If Hampton’s not healthy, then you go Chuck James, Jo-Jo Reyes or Jeff Bennett, or maybe even Manny Acosta (he’s going to work as a starter this winter, see if that role might fit him; Braves already know he can be a real good reliever).

Folks, you win the NL East with that rotation, regardless of who you get to replace Andruw (and we can cover that later, though I think Mike Cameron is a serious candidate, more so by the day. Randy Winn would also be a good option).

Oh, and one more obvious reason to bring back Glavine: It would be a great story for the Braves, who’d have Smoltz and Glavine back together for what could be Bobby Cox’s final season.

I know Glavine has detractors for things he said more than a decade ago, for his union leadership, and for going to the Mets as a free agent five years ago.

And I certainly respect those views. I really do.

But consider that there are going to be no better bargains (or ones requiring only one-year commitments) among pitching free agents than Glavine, who was 13-6 with a 3.88 ERA in his first 31 starts this season, before stumbling big-time at 0-2 with a 14.81 ERA in his last three starts.

John Smoltz and Tim Hudson were 30-16 with a 3.15 ERA this season and combined for 430 innings. But of the eight others who started games for the Braves, only Chuck James (11-10, 161-1/3 innings) and Buddy Carlyle (8-7, 104 innings) had as many as five wins or 90 innings.

Add Glavine and a Haren or Blanton (or a lesser-but-durable pitcher from elsewhere), and without spending a ton in 2008 you’ve transformed a rotation that went just 58-58 this season and pitched only 917 innings, with a 4.45 ERA that ranked 7th in the NL.

The only NL rotations that produced fewer innings were the injury-riddled units with the Cardinals, Nationals and Marlins, who had the three worst starters’ ERAs in the league.

Glavine can’t file for free agency until after the World Series, like everyone else. And the Braves aren’t permitted to talk to him or other free agents, at least not officially, before then.

But if the Braves aren’t ready with an offer in early November, as soon as its permitted, or if they low-ball Glavine by asking him to take $6-7 mill, then they have no one to blame but themselves and should expect no sympathy.

If they don’t want him because they believe he doesn’t have enough left, well, then say it. But Bobby Cox has said repeatedly that Glavine has plenty left, and Smoltz has said he’s still as good as ever (I don’t buy that, but Smoltz knows a hell of a lot more about pitching than I do, so I’ll assume Glavine at least is still good).

It’ll get done this time, I’m pretty sure. But Glavine’s agent is another one that Schuerholz doesn’t have on his Christmas card list, so you never know.

By the way, if not Glavine, how about a one-year offer for Curt Schilling? Would his personality be a good fit for the Braves? I don’t think so, at all. But for one year….

Hey, just tossing it out there.

And while I’m tossing stuff out there, how’ bout the Braves’ supposed reasoning for not signing Andruw, part of which was that they didn’t believe Boras or Andruw would consider a one-year deal based on Boras’ quotes in my story?

Come on. If you don’t want Andruw back, say it. But you gotta at least call Boras and go, we’ll make him a one-year offer at [low salary figure here].”

If you don’t do that, you should just say, “We weren’t interested in bringing him back because we want to spend his salary on pitching.” Folks would understand that. Just don’t tell us you didn’t think Boras and Andruw would consider a cheaper, short-term deal when you never actually proposed one.

Boss and other new tunes: Spent too much at my buddy Don’s CD store at Toco Hill shopping center couple days ago, but got some great stuff including the new Okkervil River and Iron And Wine CDs, both really, really good.

If you haven’t got it yet (and I’m sure all Boss fans have), I’d highly recommend the new Springsteen album, “Magic,” which I think is his best since “Tunnel of Love.” It’s not up to standards of, say, “The River,” but it’s really, really good.

And I hadn’t heard of this “About a Son” Kurt Cobain movie that’s coming out, but I got the soundtrack with tuns by everyone from David Bowie (“The Man Who Sold the World”) and Mark Lanegan to REM, the Melvins and Arlo Guthrie. Good stuff.

Also got new solo discs by Thurston Moore (from Sonic Youth) and Black Francis (aka Frank Black, from Pixies). Both are very strong, and the Black Francis CD is the closest thing he’s done to hard, raw Pixies rock.

One more thing: if you haven’t heard Mary Gauthier, check her out online. Really dark, bluesy folk, has two albums out, the latest just released couple weeks ago produced by brilliant Joe Henry.

OK, that’s it. Gonna go see “Into The Wild” tonight after watching some baseball, hopefully. Great reviews for it, everywhere I’ve seen it reviewed.

”I’M A LONESOME FUGITIVE” by Liz Anderson (sung by Merle Haggard)”

Down every road there’s always one more city

I’m on the run, the highway is my home

I raised a lot of cane back in my younger days

While Mama used to pray my crops would fail

I’m a hunted fugitive with just two ways:

Outrun the law or spend my life in jail

I’d like to settle down but they won’t let me

A fugitive must be a rolling stone

Down every road there’s always one more city

I’m on the run, the highway is my home

I’m lonely but I can’t afford the luxury

Of having one I love to come along

She’d only slow me down and they’d catch up with me

For he who travels fastest goes alone

I’d like to settle down but they won’t let me

A fugitive must be a rolling stone

Down every road there’s always one more city

I’m on the run, the highway is my home

I’m on the run, the highway is my home

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Comments

By bravesfan

October 5, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

First!!! I will take Hudson, Smoltz, Haren, Glavine, and Hampton all day long.

By bravesfan

October 5, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

I asked Jason Stark about that rotation and about Mike Cameron and this is what he said:

I’m not sure how they’re going to make that Dan Haren trade. And I’m not sure that Mike Cameron will want to take a deal as short as they’d probably offer him as a free agent. But I can see a game plan something like that, at least. The Glavine question is the hardest to answer. Remember, he sent lots of signals last winter that he wanted to go back to Atlanta, and they passed. So how much has changed in a year?

By hk

October 5, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

… Skip’s closing remarks the other night triggered a lot of memories … first game I ever saw was in Fenway Park, 1939 … I was out in right field, Ted Williams hit one out, right at me, or so it seemed, but it had a top spin, landed a few rows down … he hit it against Bob Feller (105 miles per hour fast ball !!!) … from that day on I became a dedicated Red Sox and ‘Splendid Splinter’ fan (never thought much about that ‘other’ team, the Boston Bee’s :)) … in 1941 moved to Oklahoma, rooted for the Tulsa Oilers, an AA farm team for the St Louis Cardinals … only games you could get on the radio in that part of the country were from St Louis, so I became a fan of the Cardinals (Harry Carey) along with my Bosox (Curt Gowdy) … in those days, the teams virtually ‘were’ the announcers …

… in 1964 moved to Atlanta .. shortly after that, the St Louis Hawks moved to Atlanta as well, I noticed with interest that a young fellow, Skip Carey, Harry’s son, had been doing in St Louis and would be doing the Hawks radio broadcasts for Ted Turner … he was terrific, best by far I’ve ever heard for the sport … “he shoots … good !!’ … nobody could say that like Skip … soon he was doing both the Hawks and the Braves for Ted … and, of course, I’ve been a Braves fan ever since …

… given the above, the words between Chip and his dad the other night touched me greatly, the end of two eras, and at the same moment …

… been fiddling with this spreadsheet for a while, evaluating each player, Bobby Cox and the coaches using multiple criteria, for how they ended up winning 84 games vs the 95 I kind of expected …

http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/brv07a.htm

By gene

October 5, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Lillibridge was a centerfielder in college…Do you think he could be a candidate for the CF job???

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

Great blog DOB. Can’t disagree with any of it.

By brent a.

October 5, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Buster Olney says St. Louis.

I say, Braves. Like it, or not.

IMO, it is the best option for 2008. 2009, though, is likely a different story.

Go Braves!

By DAP

October 5, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

i guess oakland is a more likely trade candidate than san fran, since they have a tighter budget and have to run thier team different. the idea of getting one of those guys is exciting.

i know we would all love to get a young #1 starter, but honestly, if you look at the braves starters in ‘07, a guy like glavine would have put them over the edge this year.

i do hope we get him because he will be as good as most other free agents out there, but will be cheaper, and will take a shorter contract. it seems like its tailor made for atlanta.

DOB many thanx for the blog. it is definetly a bright spot in my day. i found your blog last september, and havnt gone more than a week without it since. (and that was my honeymoon, so im sure you understand my absence)

By Get it Done

October 5, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Give Glavine a one-year deal with a club option for a second for the same amount of money Smoltz will make. Case closed.

GET IT DONE!

By Kentavo

October 5, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

I’ll take Glavine back - but not if that’s the only move and they say, “see, we solidifed the rotation.” They need one more younger, stud type, someone at least as effective as Hudson. Who that is, I don’t know. But I can’t see why the A’s would trade Haren or Blanton when they’re not really that close to free agency. If they were on last year of contract, then yes. Also, I’d take Randy Winn over Mike Cameron - there’ more of an upside to Winn, who is very underated.

Oh yes, and Schilling. Could he and Smoltz co-exist? Hasn’t Schilling hated on the Braves in the past?

By aj

October 5, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

2nd?

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

DOB

I’m sorry, I just don’t see the A’s parting with Haren. No way, not a chance. Blanton, most definetly, I think he is traded this offseason. That deal that Haren has can be fit in Oakland’s payroll.

Also, if we are going to sign Glavine to a one year 9 million dollar deal, Cameron to a 2 year 16 million dollar deal, don’t we have to trade Renteria???

If we don’t our payroll would be upwards near 100 million dollars. I know it is a 6 million dollar difference, but I can’t imagine it being that high. Kelly Johnson does seem like the type of player Beane would love. I don’t use him in a trade for Blanton, I do whatever it takes to acquire Blanton with what I have in the minors. Haren is a different story, but lets be honest with ourselves, he is going nowhere.

By Lee in S. GA

October 5, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB for the new blog and I agree with your reasoning of having Glavine back in a Braves uniform.

Now if the Rockies and D’backs can finsih off the other 2 teams everything will be just fine.

By Thrillhouse44

October 5, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for putting so much time and effort into today’s blog. It doesn’t seem like you ever have an offseason.

A rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Haren, Glavine, and Hampton? Sounds like it’s the 90’s again. Add our bullpen, plus the current position players and it’s starting to sound like it could be ‘95 again. It might be wishful thinking, but that’s what the offseason is for. I’ll drink to that!

By brent a.

October 5, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

I like Jayson Stark, but to say that the Braves “passed” a year ago is a bit of a misnomer.

We all know the story, and it wasn’t “passing”, but rather there was a delay, related to payroll constraints and trying to dump salary, as DOB said.

IMO, last year, both sides did the right thing. The Mets were actually quite fair to Tom, and I’m sure he felt awkward asking them to delay so that he could go back to a division rival.

Then again, maybe the Mets were hoping to see the Braves dump Hudson …

By Notorious B.I.G.

October 5, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Biggie noticed yesterday the Notorious DOB ran out of supply. Know why? DOB got high off his own supply. In so doing, the Notorious DOB was in violation of Commandment Number 4 of the Ten Crack Commandments. When you smoke up all your supply, derelict denizens scurry around, even going to Terrence Moore blogs to get their fix. Don’t make us go get our fix with Terrence and the weak dope he is slinging. DOB is The Pusherman. Be wary of the Notorious Pusherman. He’s trying to drive up prices. He knows we won’t stand for the seeds, sticks, and stems the other AJC writers push on us. We MIB addicts want some of DOB’s real sticky icky icky. But at least the Notorious DOB stayed in compliance with Commandent 2 of the Ten Crack Commandments - never let em know your next move …. bad boys move in silence or violence….

By jame

October 5, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

wow, Blanton/Haren AND Glavine?

No faith in James and Reyes as the #4 and #5?

Why not try to trade away Hampton?

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Someone asked me in an e-mail about difference between Glavine and Chuck James. Well, to start with, how about this: Chuck pitched 5-1/3 innings or fewer innings EIGHTEEN times this season.

Glavine pitched fewer than six innings only eight times in 34 starts, and three of those were his last three starts, when he was clearly out of gas.

At 41, he pitched 200 innings and made 34 starts. Chuck pitched 161 innings in 30 starts and had a “dead arm” at midseason that put him on the DL, and was still sore at season’s end.

By KC

October 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Consider this also in regard to Tommy Boy…

Tom Glavine was 5th in the league this year in quality starts at 23.

Smoltz had 26 quality starts, and Hudson 25. Glavine gives you innings, and he gives you a chance to win the majority of the time. What else can you really ask from a middle of the rotation guy??

It looks like DOB agrees with what I posted in the last blog (not that I was the inspiration for his saying so today) that we’re not necessarily looking at an either/or situation… Glavine OR trade for a starter.

Signing Glavine will likely NOT have any affect on the Braves’ pursuit of quality starter via-trade.

Many thought when the Soriano trade happened last year, JS would see no need to pull the trigger on the Gonzo/LaRoche deal. They were wrong. He took the “you can never have too much pitching” approach last year when he was fixing the bullpen… and I think you can expect the same this year as he’s bolstering the rotation.

I’m not saying a trade for a quality starter WILL happen (that will depend on the availability of such a trade)… but I’m certain the Braves will TRY, regardless of what happens with Glavine.

By Greg in TN

October 5, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Afternoon denizens…

DOB, completely agree with your assessment. Glavine would be returning in the middle of the rotation and not as a #1 or #2 and as much as shortened outings from 3-5 cost us this year, adding a guy that can go out and pitch 200 innings and would be an effective hedge against Hampton’s uncertain status heading in to ‘08.

I think we have a shot at getting Blanton or Haren, however I also wonder about the dynamics now between Billy Beane and JS in the aftermath of the Hudson trade (which obviously helped us out more than the A’s) and with Langerhans staying with Oakland for all of two games before being turned over to a division rival. Still, a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton and Haren/Blanton would certainly lengthen drool’s ‘blip on the radar’, and I’m all for that.

The hottest team this postseason could be the team from Colorado. The phils are on the ropes and have to travel west to fight their way back into the series. The Rockies had better bury these guys tomorrow night while they have the chance.

I think the Cubs set themselves up for going down 0-2 when Pinella lifted Zambrano in the sixth inning of game one on Wednesday night. Lilly looked lost last night and everything was up. They do have the luxury of coming home to play the next two games, but with the snakes sending Livan Hernandez to the mound, it may not matter.

By AJ 25

October 5, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Oh sure. Homeboy will take greedy old Glav back but he won’t re-sign me. I would have given him a home town discount too. I would have stayed for $24 mill per year instead of the $25 mill I’m going to get from the Yanks or Sox. Watch me in the World Series next year. I plan to be MVP.

By Big Ed

October 5, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

I’m sure Smoltzy would like to get his golfing buddy back but I can’t see Glavine winning any more than ten games next year. That would cost us about 1 million dollars per victory. No thanks.

By DOG THE MAN

October 5, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Yes let’s bring Glavine back. At least we will know who will be the #3 starter. My only problem will that there will be noone in center to catch whoever pitches mistakes. Let’s face it Atlanta, all those routine headfirst catches we watched the last ten years will now be singles and all those line drives not caught will be doubles.. Yeah let’s get some pitching and put no defense behind it. Real smart GM…

By Bill

October 5, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

TO hell with Glavine. They’d better get someon who can hit, since the Chipper is in a decling state of mind.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Does Stark really think Cameron’s going to get more than two years from any other team?

jame, Hampton’s injury history and salary make a trade impossible.

By George

October 5, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Make NO effort to sign the best center fielder in baseball.
Spend 10M to Sign a 42 year old pitcher who was on a downward spiral in the second half of the 2007 season and is very suspect.

Go Figure.

By Paula

October 5, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

DOG THE MAN, I’m sure there will be someone playing in centerfield. Yes, it’s a smart GM that refuses to play Boras’ games and doesn’t get caught paying $20 million to a player who isn’t even the best player on the Braves team by a longshot.

By Curtis Mayfield

October 5, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

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i’m your mamma, i’m your daddy, i’m that blogga in the alley, i’m your doctor, when in need, want some blog, have some cheese, you know me, i’m your friend, your man boy, thick and thin, i’m your bloggerman, i’m your pusherman

By Jen

October 5, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Let him stay in NY and get booed! He deserves it. Sign AJ before Glavine. Glavine is a greedy traitor and over the hill!

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Jame, trade away Hampton? Are you serious?

Besides the fact that he hasn’t pitched in two seasons, has had two elbow surgeries in the interim, and is going to make $15 mill next season, I can’t think of any other reason why a team wouldn’t be interested in trading for him….

By bravesgal

October 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Chipper is declining? The guy who just ended up 2nd in the race for the NL batting title. Some of you don’t even watch Braves baseball do you?

By Geo the Braves Fan

October 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Can you imagine the Braves/Mets game headlines if we got Glavine back?!?! Especially if the schedule could be game one in the regular season when they meet (hopefully here!) and Glavine is the pitcher! The TED would be standing room only. I’d fork over top dollar to get in that game. TV and the TED would make a fortune. Get him back!!

By Koz

October 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

HAMPTON IS DONE

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

DOB

Any chance Chuck James is used in a trade this offseason??? For Blanton, maybe the Braves could deal James and Brent Lillibridge along with another pitching prospect.

By Jay Stiltner

October 5, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

I agree with your assessment, DOB. Bringing back Tom Glavine can only help the Braves. Until his last three starts of the season, his record was 13-6, with a respectable ERA.

With the inconsistencies of Chuck James and the health of Mike Hampton up in the air, Glavine would bring stability and leadership to the middle of the rotation.

I think most Braves fans out there still hold animosity towards Glavine for the things that you mentioned in this blog, but personally, I respect the hell out of Glavine for all the great things he did for my team, and for being a class act.

If not for Glavine and Dave Justice, the Braves would be the Buffalo Bills of baseball. Never forget game six of the 1995 World Series.

The Braves could benefit from some younger arms, but who’s out there to sign? If they could realistically sign Dan Haren, that would be a monster acquisition. I don’t think the Braves currently have an abundance of starting pitching in the farm system.

The organization will definitely need to wheel-and-deal to bolster that rotation. There’s no doubt that the offense should be potent enough to put runs on the board. However, it won’t matter if they can’t get better pitching.

I’d like to make a comment on the Andruw Jones situation because I tryed to post some comments the other day and they didn’t go through.

It amazed and disgruntled me to read some of the comments that were posted regarding the Braves’ organization. “Cheap” and “thoughtless.” Come on. Everyone who follows the Braves should know that they’re owned by Liberty Media and that the payroll is a mediocre $84 million.

How in the world were the Braves going to sign Jones to a $140 million dollar contract with that payroll? It’s impossible. Bloggers were writing as if this were some new surprise.

Jones may have stated that he wanted to remain a Brave, but do you think he was going to take a paycut to stay? It’s all about “market value.” And with Scott Boras as his hard-nosed agent, there was no reason for John Schuerholz to make a counterproposal.

Jones wasn’t worth the $13 million he made this year and there’s no way he’ll be worth $20 million over the next seven years. Not even if he hits 50 homers with 130 RBI’s. Sure, he’s a great player with ridiculous defensive prowess. But the Braves simply can’t afford him.

What Schuerholz has been able to do with the money he’s had to work with over the last few years is nothing short of phenomenal. It’s not like he let Jones go to sign Aaron Rowand. Mike Cameron or the possibility of Tori Hunter would be a decent replacement offensively, but without a better rotation, the issue is a mute point.

By bravochick

October 5, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

NO, NO, NO, NO. DO NOT SIGN GLAVINE. The end of the season counts too. Everyone wants to point to his first 31 starts. If adding him to the rotation gets us to the playoffs as you say, then what are you going to do? Leave him off the play-off roster because he’s too old to pitch past 31 games? Everything for his team was on the line late this year and he gave up something like 7 runs in 1/3 of an inning. And this is what the Braves rotation needs? They are already counting too much on Hampton, who at least is less than 40. NO, NO, NO, NO. Don’t sign Glavine. Get a good, reliable YOUNG arm.

By BravesRIc

October 5, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

I love the idea of Glavine finishing his career in a Braves uni. For what it’s worth, I agree with the decision to part ways with Andruw. Braves priorities should be: Starting pitching; speed; strenthening bench/clutch hitting; defense. The only one Andruw’s departure negatively impacts is defense, and there are a WHOLE bunch of good CF’ers for a lot less money than Boras will demand.

By Paula

October 5, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

And Andruw isn’t greedy? Wanting $20 million for barely hitting over .200???

By True Braves Fan

October 5, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

There are many reasons for not presuing Glavine, but there is ONE big reason to do so. He stands to give Braves some innings every time he goes out. As good as the bullpen figurs to be next year, starters only going 3 or less innings 3 out of 5 days will wear it out by All Star time. (Please, no possibility of Schilling!!!) Also, please sign Tex to long term contract, and keep Renteria. Use Johnson and most anyone else to get an A’ starter. CF? I raised this before…Marlins have a young Cody Ross that they are using as a fourth outfielder. No question about his offense…Does he have enough range for CF and would the Marlins trade him? Two suggestions that keep coming up are trade Hampton and move Francoeur to CF. In my opinion, neither has a snowball’s chance in June of it happening…Also, we AIN’T GOING TO TRADE CHIPPER, OR MOVE HIM TO FIRST BASE!!!!!

By Peter

October 5, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Don’t sign the BUM…….. he sucks, I will boo him in our uniform !!!!

By BUSHWACKER

October 5, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Glavine should not be blamed for the strike thing, he was just the rep, he did not make the decisions and when he left the Braves and signed with the Mets he DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BRAVES FINAL OFFER until after he had already accepted the METS offer and being the man that he is he would not back out of ht e deal he made with the METS. Last year, the Braves never madfe him on offer! Thru all this even the METS FANS realize Tom Glaivine is an Atlanta Brave, always has been, always will be! He should be getting the love from the fans that Smoltz is getting NOT MY WORDS, JOHN SMOLTZ’S WORDS! Please bring him back and watch him, Smoltz and Bobby (and CHIPPER and J.S. if ready) to RETIRE AS WORLD CHAMPIONS!

A great story waiting to happen!

Think about how movitating it could be for Francouer, Tex, McCann, KJ and the youngs to go out help 5 HALL OF FAMERS win a championship!

You can make this happen J.S.

Do it for all 5 of you guys!

By Big Ol Donnie

October 5, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Come ON with the Mike Cameron talk — he’s a .240 hitter! Yes, I know he has pop and is good defensively, but a career .240s hitter is a big-inning killer. We could do better than this clown. Yes, I’d take Haren AND Glavine any day, but I’d rather have a guy in center that hits .300 with little power than a guy who strikes out all the time, but musters 25 HRs.

Plus, I met him once and he smelled like a turd.

By bravochick

October 5, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

NO, NO, NO, NO. DO NOT SIGN GLAVINE. Everyone wants to point to his first 31 starts. Hey, the end of the season counts too! If adding him to the rotation get us to the playoffs as you say, what are you going to do? Leave him off the playoff roster because he can’t pitch past 31 games? NO, NO, NO. He was the guy who pitched when everything was on the line for the Mets this year. Win and go to the playoffs. Lose and go home. What was the best he could do in that pressure situation? Something like 7 runs in a third of an inning. And this is what the Braves rotation needs? NO, NO, NO! Get a good, YOUNG arm. You’ve already given up the best prospects for one more year of Tex. Don’t waste it by going into the season without a rotation again. Glavine is not the answer (unless he’s willing to pitch at what he’s worth…maybe 6-7 million). But we all know how Glavin operates. Bleed the game dry by getting absolutely the most money available for some displaced loyalty to some outdated union. How much money is enough? You too Andruw. I guess you learned from the best, huh? Anyway, NO, NO, NO. Don’t sign Glavine!

By Master of Flatulence

October 5, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Considering he’s at best a three and more likely a 4, for the priviledge of renewing his association with his friends, Glavine’s negotiating posture should be to grab his ankles and say repeatedly, “Thank you, sir. May I have another?”

By True Braves Fan

October 5, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

DOB: Any chance of Julio getting a minor league contact and invite to spring training??? Does he have enough in the tank to win a roster spot and PH and backup 1B???

(Figure Thorman, Orr, and Woodward are gone, gone. Also, see Harris back in Richmond next year. He gave us a thrill, but his second half was horrible…Too many K’s and fly outs.) What the present story on Aybar? Will he be able to compete for a utility spot next year?

By Harry Balls

October 5, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

I would not give TG a dime more than about 7.5 or 8 mil per year. His last 2 starts in NY probably is the beginning of the end for his playing days.

The Braves need to keep the young prospects. I will ask again. WHO WAS THE LAST PRODUCTIVE STARTING PITCHER THE BRAVES HAVE BROUGHT UP FROM THE MINORS? I still say it was Steve Avery. You win with pitching and the Braves have nobody they can turn to in the minors.

By Rojo

October 5, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

After watching Glavine over the last 5 years, I think we need to look elsewhere, especially after his meltdown the last day of the season. He has winning seasons only 2 of the last 5 years. Those 2 winning years came only after the Mets signed enough big bats that they could outslug bad starting pitching!! We don’t need another starter who has averaged a 12-11 record for 5 years running. If we need someone wo can be a good influence on young pitchers, hire him as the Pitching Coach and make him the highest paid coach in the NL!!!

By Doc Jones

October 5, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Flush goonion glavine down the crap-hole. He’s a spineless puss-wuss, as he proved saying he didn’t give a damm when the Mets tanked.

By tim

October 5, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

I agree with what you said about what to do with the pitching but I completely disagree with your CF prosepects. Say NO to mike cameron. Don’t even put it in management’s mind. He is a free swinging bad hitter with less power and worse defense than Andruw Jones.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

George, I guess I didn’t see the “downward spiral” in second half of the season. I saw it in his last three starts, period.

Or do you see this as a downward spiral: Glavine was 5-0 with a 2.66 ERA in 10 starts from July 25 to Sept. 14, with nine quality starts in that span and four no-decisions in which he got two support runs or fewer while he was in the game.

You think maybe Braves could have used such a starter during that particular stretch this season? Humm….

Curtis Mayfield, I LOVE it.

By Rojo

October 5, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

In case you haven’t kept up with Glavine during the Mets years, his record indicates that he retired in a Braves uniform already.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t see a Haren trade either but you never know. If the A’s think this is as good as he’ll get and this is the time to re-load their farm system, maybe. I just think he has too many good years at a reasonable salary left in him for a team like the A’s to trade him at this point.

By Steppenwolf

October 5, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

No, no, no. The Notorious B.I.G. and Curtis Mayfield have got it all wrong. DOB is the dealer who gives you the good stuff at a fair price. Terrence Moore is The Pusherman you go to out of desperation when the good dealer like DOB runs out of supply. At the AJC, the blogger is the dealer, the columnist the pusher. Allow us to explain through the lyrics of The Pusher:

You know I’ve blogged a lot of posts, O’ Lord, I’ve typed a lot of words, But I never touched nothin’, That my spirit could kill,

You know, I’ve seen a lot of people walkin’ ‘round, With tombstones in their eyes, But the columnist don’t care, Ah, if you live or if you die

God damn, The Columnist, God damn, I say The Columnist, I said God damn, God damn The Columnist man

You know the blogger, the blogger is a man, With the love grass in his hand

Oh but the columnist is a monster, Good God, he’s not a natural man,

The blogger for a nickel, Lord, will sell you lots of sweet dreams

Ah, but the Columnist ruin your body, Lord, he’ll leave your, he’ll leave your mind to scream

God damn, The Columnist, God damn, God damn the Columnist, I said God damn, God, God damn The Columnist man

Well, now if I were the president of this land, You know, I’d declare total war on The Columnist man,

God damn The Columnist, God damn The Columnist, I said God damn, God damn The Columnist man

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

I think Joe Blanton’s ERA would probably be a 1/2 run lower in the NL. He has a very good walk to strike out ratio (40-140) to go with that 3.95 ERA. Plus he eats innings (230).

By waiting on 2008

October 5, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

I dont want Glavine back period. We need to sign real pitchers starting in their prime, not kill the 2009 rotation by having everyone leave at once. Glavine is a #4 pitcher at best and we have plenty of them. It did not help us. Sign two real pitchers and let it go at that.

By DAP

October 5, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

bill chipper is in decline? please explain. this oughta be good.

By ncscoots

October 5, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

And where exactly would you slot Glavine in the rotation? Does anybody really want to see any three of Glavine, Hampton, James, Reyes go back-to-back-to-back? That, to me, would bode ill for the tail-end-charlies; too much of the same-same in a series.

By Lee in S. GA

October 5, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Signing Glavine will may open the door to Chuck James eventually being traded. Cannot see Reyes, James and Glavine (all left-handers) as starters. Every team is always willing to take a chance on a lefty no matter how many hrs he gives up. Look who we gave up to get Soriano this past season.

By BUSHWACKER

October 5, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

Besides with Glavine back in the rotation Smotlz can finally change positions and play centerfield like he’s always wanted to do!

We need one!

By Mark

October 5, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave- Magic is a great CD- Gypsy Biker and Long Way Home are my favs. Also really like the hidden track- Terry’s Song.

Now onto Glavine, I will preface this by saying I am a life-long NY Mets fan. And if I were Omar, I would hope and pray he DOESN’T exercise the option. And its not because I believe he is done, because he is not. And its not because I don’t like him, I do. Its just that its so apparent he doesn’t really want to be there.

The Mets need desperately to do 2 things this offseason- 1) Get younger, and 2) find guys with heart. No disrespect, but Glavine is neither. He is professional, and I do believe he plays to win, but judging by his remarks this past month, he is not the kind of guy that seems all that distraught if he loses. Maybe he has seen it, done it (which gets back to the age thing), but I think its more that he is living a mistake he made 5 years ago to leave Atlanta, and wants one more shot to come back home. So, to a guy that never really embraced the move to come to NY in the first place, its time to let him go.

By True Braves Fan

October 5, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

HARRY BALLS: Think Jason Schmidt and Kevin Millwood came up after Steve Avery. And even though we traded him, Adam Wainwright was developed in the Braves farm system.

DOB: Thanks for setting the record straight (AGAIN) on possibly trading Hampton.

By Bo

October 5, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Agree with everything but Glavine return and thats hell no! I give JS more credit than that. Boy, has TBS really done a great job with the Play-offs on TV. Much better than FOX, ESPN, and other networks. All the Broadcasters have done a great job, much better than calling Braves games. Really would be great to see Braves playing as hard as D-Backs and Rockies have. Its fun to watch this young guys getting it done but this want happen in Atlants till Cox is gone. He’s had his days and its time to move on, Wait till 09.

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

I’m just not sold on Tom Glavine. I think the Braves can spend their money elsewhere and get better value. We have a surplus of good middle infielders to use for trade purposes.

How important is starting pitching? Just take one look at the current playoffs.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

True Braves Fan, sure, there’s a chance Julio could get a minor-league contract. Perhaps something that offers him a coaching job if he doesn’t make the team, etc.

I don’t think any other team will offer him a major league contract, safe to say. So Braves can get him at no risk.

By BUSHWACKER

October 5, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Let me splain to BRAVOCHICK, even if Glavine is out of gas at the end of the season that is ok, he can definitely help us get there (into the playoffs) and then we can get by on Smoltz and Hudson, although let’s not forget who was the WORLD SERIES MVP in 1995, YEP, Tom Glavine! Beside I think Chuck James is gonna win 20 next year and be dominanat all the way thru the playoffs!

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new Blog DOB. Always appreciate it.

Tommy back in Atlanta… I’m not agin it, but I’m not extremely excited about it. I don’t think it’s an answer to shoring up this rotation for the short term or the long term. With Hampton still on the Roster for one more year, picking up Glavine and making a few trades for other pitchers would be nice. We’d have depth in case Hampton goes down and depth for when Glavine gets tired.
What I want to see is about a 20 pitcher line between the Atlanta rotation and Kevin Berry, or any Kevin Berry look-a-like.
Blaton and Haren are interesting, but I’m not sold on that deal either. If it works it works.
Cameron… I think I’ve about covered why I don’t enjoy the idea of giving 8 million a year to declining mediocrity. Even when his defenders start listing his stats he still looks descidedly medicore and on the decline. And for 8 million a season!!!?! Are you kidding me?

What I’d like to see, moves made which shore up the rotation for more than 1 year with more than 1 good pitcher and an option for the outfield that isn’t depressingly mediocre and available to stay longer in the event that Schafer turns out like Andy Marte, Mark DeRosa, or Wilson Betemit.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Mark, don’t worry: Glavine is NOT going to exercise that option with the Mets. You’ll find that out officially very soon.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Lee in S. Ga, you forgot Hampton. That’s yet another lefty the Braves will have (provided he can pitch).

By tim

October 5, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien. Good article. I just wanted to say that of all the sports writers around you come up with insightful info into the home team with facts to back up your argument. I wish all the beat writers spent as much time researching what they say instead of talking about the same old stuff you can read anywhere. I hate that the braves aren’t in the post season. Argh!!! I’m off to the thrashers games

By X worker

October 5, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

I’m one of 1oo or more plus that lost my job when Glavine and the union went on strike and that was just in Atlanta. For him to make millions and us to look for a job. I wouldn’t p** on Glavine.

By Savannah Guy

October 5, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Notorious DOB: New blog…and a very nice straight up, no holds barred article. Thanks. I was wondering about your POV on: �By the way, if not Glavine, how about a one-year offer for Curt Schilling? Would his personality be a good fit for the Braves? I don�t think so, at all. But for one year��

Schilling has always been at the top of my list for ace warriors, who also happens to possess a real knowledge and appreciation for the game. I’ve always had the highest respect for the guy and the talent. What about his personality would not fit the Braves? Is there a dark side or a bad relationship with the Braves there?

Notorious B.I.G. Nicely done Mr. Big. Hey man, you Jonesin�? Well, I confess to checking out TM’s blog story on AJ’s leaving (I think Terrance is Jonesin’ for Vickdruw). While there (wincing), ran across a funny as hell post by Rev. Zoldars - October 3, 2007 2:30 PM. The Rev. did a good job making counterpoints and commentary slashing a really bad (always) TM article. �Cracked� me up.

By D-Lo

October 5, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Benedict Glavine??? NO WAY. He is the most self-interested egomaniac that has ever worn the uniform. I’ve never heard a guy talk more about his own stats and place in the Cy Young race (which will never happen again). Team is always second with this guy, which is why apparently he thought it was no big deal to go pitch for the Mets for a few mil. Sign a Met who rejected his fans, friends, and sense of team??? No way, next time he wears the hat will hopefully be in Cooperstown, and even then it won’t sit right with me.

He pitched one clutch game in his entire career (a convenient one, mind you) who is completely dependent on the umpire’s strike zone. He would certainly help us get to the postseason, but when we get there we’ll see the Glavine of last Sunday guaranteed.

DOB, I love your blogs, but please try to foster better fanhood than this. I am NOT willing to sacrifice my love for the Braves and what they stand for - team play and good people - for a cheap trip to October. We can get there many other ways. NO GLAVINE!

By Swing & A Miss

October 5, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Well, I guess if the Braves are going to take a shot at Glavine for old times sake and let Glavine finish up with Cox, I guess they should make a pitch for Pete Smith, Mark Avery, Mark Wohlers, Gene Garber, Ron Reed, Phil Niekro, Joe Niedron, Ken Johnson, Tony Cloninger, Cecil Upshaw, Denny Lemaster, Denny McLain, Arnold Umbach, and The Mad Hungarian, and all it Old Home Season and let everyone go out in style. Wonder if Hank, Mack Jones, Orlando Cepeda, Woodie Woodward, Gene Oliver, Denis Menke, Clete Boyer, Rico Carty, Ralph Garr, or Bob Didier are still available? If going old, go all the way. Heck, Hank and Rico could probably still hit .290 against some of the pitching in the NL now. Just use pinch runners when they get on.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

I basically said this the other day. I would love Glavine to finish his career as a Brave. I think acquiring him would be a good move but only if another pitcher is going to be acquired. Glavine is not the answer by himself. He just isn’t that good anymore.

A trade with the A’s does intrigue me. I think Haren could be had not so much because the A’s can’t afford his contract this year but in the following two years. Besides Billy Beane believes in selling high and buying low. I believe the Braves could offer a few packages. One would be Renteria, James, and Esquivel or Devine for Haren. If the A’s won’t bite on James then bite the bullent and offer Reyes. Another package could be Lillibridge, Devine, and James. Yet another package could be Johnson, Reyes, and Devine or Esquivel. I think one of those packages could get Haren and would for sure get Blanton. While Blanton isn’t Haren, he is better than taking another chance with James or Cormier.

I would much rather the Braves make that deal than the one many people think they will make with the Cardinals which would net them Anthony Reyes. I think Reyes will be a great pitcher but I would rather have somebody who has shown some consistency.

The reason the A’s might be ready to trade Haren now is that for one the pitching market can always change. Another reason is trade him at the height of his value. Anything could happen like injuries or a bad year. Look at Dontrelle Willis. If the Marlins had traded him last year like many said they should’ve they would have received a king’s ransom. Now, they would only receive a modest return. For instance, the Mets would have sent Carlos Gomez or Lastings Milledge, Pelphrey, and another mid-level prospect for him. Now, Minaya would laugh the Fish off the phone for even mentioning Milledge or Gomez.

Billy Beane is a smart guy. I think he could be ripe for the picking.

By DAP

October 5, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

i think the braves should pursue morgan ensberg for back up 3B and 1B and pinch hitter. he would be a great power bat off the bench.

By bravochick

October 5, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Let me splain to BUSHWACKER, 1995 was over a decade ago. Stop living in the past.

By Grim Ben

October 5, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Braves need Tommy-boy back about as much as they need an old drunken wife-beater as skipper. Oh, wait … .

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 5, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

I heard something very interesting yesterday on Foxsports radio. I can’t recall the gentleman’s name but he said that Glavine is for sure leaving New York and that the Mets nor the fans want him back. They never saw him as a Met in the first place AND that Glavine never saw himself as a Met. He said Glavine came to New York as reluctantly as a free agent can ever go somewhere. He said Glavine never wanted to be a Met and only became one because the Braves didn’t want him. He said Glavine could never step on the mound again in Shea as a Met. He said either Glavine becomes a Brave or he will retire.

By caz

October 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

In my opinion,Glavine at 5 mil or less would be ok. But that is short term,I prefer long term. Save that cash and go after a younger starter. If thats Haren or Blanton then fine. They’re younger shown to be productive and less expensive. Give up prospects now for known commodity,makes sense to me. I’m sure Haren & Blanton are’nt the only young arms out that fit this mold.

By Savannah Guy

October 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Harry Balls: “I would not give TG a dime more than about 7.5 or 8 mil per year.”

Something about that statement just cracks me up. Are you by chance related to Schweaty?

By flange1

October 5, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Afternoon all,

Thanks for the new blog DOB. I agree that Glavine is an option that the Braves cannot pass on right now. It will give JS the flexiblity to look to trade for another starter. I would love to see us pick up Haren for a package revolving around KJ and Chuckie. I would hope to keep Lillibridge and Reyes Schafer and Hanson, but for Haren I would consider anyone but Escobar.

I would not be opposed to Blanton either for a lesser deal.

I really think that Reyes is close to be ing ready. His stuff seems to be good, his last few starts were much better and he can hit. His stuff has been killer in the minors and I agree with Braves announcers that when he first came up he was trying to be too perfect with hitting the corners and he walked more men than he should have.

I know all of this will cost money and if the new budget will handle it great! I would love to keep Edgar, but if we have to trade him for prospects to help in a deal for Haren, I would consider that as well.

By Are

October 5, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Glavine was/is one of my fav all-time Bravos…..always a consumate pro in my book.

I agree, Braves shoulda offered Druw at least a 1 yr deal….to anything less is uncaring, period.

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

True Braves Fan: Schmidt waited 10 years before he was good. Millwood got it out of the way real quick and has since coasted to big contracts with no effort. Thank you Scott Boras.

I’d say the Braves really haven’t developed pitching like they do hitting. There is a lot of good pitching out there but not from the Braves system. Lot of solid position players from that system though.
I’d like to see some moves for great young pitching. Maybe go after a really good pitcher in the draft… one that amounts to more than McBride, Lerew, et al

By JEB

October 5, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, great job in assessing the Glavine, Blanton / Haren scenario! For the following reasons:

1) Glavine WILL win us 12 - 15 games guaranteed!! We can take that from a #3 or #4 starter ANY year! 2) The impact he would have on 2 young lefties: James & Reyes(if they are still here AND one or both WILL be!)This will be a tremendous LONG term investment! Worth the money for that! 3)He will eat up a lot of innings and save our bullpen. (add his inning total to Smoltz & Hudson and see what you come up with!)

DOB, what a combination of a guy you are! A REAL connoisseur of music and you KNOW baseball. Ever listened to the sound trac of “Elizabethtown”? Great movie & unique soundtrac. Good stuff!

By dj

October 5, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

I think it would be a huge mistake to bring Glavine back. Braves management, please go back and watch his last appearance. He’s 41, not very effective anymore, and wasn’t loyal to begin with. He’s just not worth it, even at a reduced rate. It’s time to look toward the future. And I haven’t even mentioned his being the face of the union during the baseball strike when the WS was cancelled. Sorry, but I just can’t get over that and he needs to go somewhere else.

By DAC

October 5, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Glavine to dance again just so its not in a Braves uniform. Can’t wait to hear the Fans Boo him.

By Bill

October 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Glavine is D-E-A-D. He snubbed us once before when he put money over the Braves. Now that he is sucking (even worse), he wants to come back to ATL. Let him go pitch in the Mexican League. ?Como se dice YOU SUCK?

By 3trees

October 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Put me down in the yes column for Glav. I thought the timing and announcement of the Andruw thing kinda odd and think it may hurt our chances with Tex, BUT it’s just business… Don’t know how feasible either of the A’s guys are. We’ll see.

Rockies are looking good. Lets’ see how they hit Webb.

Now to that tune - Man, no one else possessed that restless, down-low, outsider thing, like Merle. And that’s just his voice alone. Maybe JC, but he was like the sinnin’ preacher and Merle was the guy in the back of the church that comes in late and leaves early. We’re talking mid - late ’60s era Merle here. Just incredible! Thanks, DOB.

By Jim Smoltz

October 5, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What do you make of the comment by Boras that Atlanta has no chance of signing Tex because we don’t offer a no-trade clause?

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

clinton (Byromville,GA): Could you see a Braves rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Dan Haren (acquired through trade), Glavine (free agent), and Hampton? And sign Mike Cameron to play center? They would have to be the favorites in the NL EAST.

Jayson Stark: I’m not sure how they’re going to make that Dan Haren trade. And I’m not sure that Mike Cameron will want to take a deal as short as they’d probably offer him as a free agent. But I can see a game plan something like that, at least. The Glavine question is the hardest to answer. Remember, he sent lots of signals last winter that he wanted to go back to Atlanta, and they passed. So how much has changed in a year?

What does Jayson Stark think Cameron is going to get??? A four year deal at 35 years of age??? 2 years at most. Thats the Stark Truth.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

I love how going somewhere for more money equals the player isn’t a team player and isn’t loyal. Teams can trade players (granted there are no-trade rules for vets) and not offer players equal contract. But it’s all the player’s fault. Never mind that the economic system is part of collective bargaining.

By Heath

October 5, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

That would be great to have Glavine back. We need more pro athletes in this town that are true pros.

By mariner

October 5, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

If I’m Billy Beane, I put my effort into trading Rich Harden and his $4.5 mil contract for next year. I don’t even consider trading Blanton and Haren. I can’t decide whether I’m for or against Glavine returning. I wish he’d just retire and eliminate the decision for the Braves altogether. If he does sign with the Braves, it should keep Jo Jo in the minors for another year, which is a good thing, and then he’ll be ready to take Glavine’s spot in 2009. Ideally.

By caz

October 5, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, I heard a rumor that Torji Hunter might be available,True? If so,that would be a nice piece in center. Get Glavine cheap (if thats possible) and possibly one of A’s startes mentioned earlier. That would still be cheaper than AJ’s projected salary and filling the most glaring of needs. How’s Gonzalez doin in rehab and will he be back next year (health wise)?

By ncscoots

October 5, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Wow. Reliable West Coast sources bring a shock to the blog, IMO. That Beane even considers moving Haren or Blanton shows much confidence that Harden can actually stay off the DL for more than a month. Unless, of course, the rumor is just the old spinneroo in an attempt to unload said Harden. The mind boggles, it’s so tres Machiavellian, LOL.

But I’d take Harden trade-cheap (tons of upside when actually on the mound), or Haren trade-expensive (tons of upside. Period.), either one. And I believe that’s the kind of move the Braves need to make. Either take a chance on a pitcher who may turn into a top-tier starter, or pay the freight for one already there.

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

I can’t say I don’t agree with Stark about Dan Haren. If he does become available, teams will line up to get him over Johan Santana and if you pay attention to other teams farm system’s, they have more to offer. The D-Backs, who will be in need of a starter, have much more to offer than the Braves do. The Dodgers, Red Sox and Brewers do as well. Blanton is a different story. Much more different.

By Shannon

October 5, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I’d be thrilled for Glavine to come back after all he started his career here and Atlanta is his home so its really only fitting that he end it here as well.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 5, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

GIt’er done. Bring Glavine back already. As for Oakland , if they feel the need to trade young inexpensive talented pitching , that franchise might as well shut the doors or relocate. Joe Blanton makes the league minimum and Haren’s contract is a steal.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, which frank black cd did you get? if you don’t have “teenager of the year” yet, be sure to pick that one up too. i’d rank that as high as the pixies’ “doolittle” or “trompe le monde” (my personal favorite).

By JEB

October 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Oh… by the way, if we are going to judge Glavine by his last start of the year - take a look at Smoltz’s last start! It wasn’t spectacular either! Are we going to chuck him and cut him down because of that?? I think not!! These guys are getting older - but they can still pitch!! They still make a LOT of hitters look bad! I do not like the going market price for pitchers, but it is what it is! Glavine is a good price at 8 - 10 mil. Load his contract with incentives! (they did that with Smoltz) Put him in a place where he can both earn his money and MAKE the money he wants!

By Rick Camp

October 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

JEB How in the hell can you Guarantee Galvine will win 12-15 games?? What are you and DOB smoking.

By mo in the boonies

October 5, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Geeze! I’m sure sick of reading all the posts complaining about how greedy Andruw is demanding all that money, he never even got a chance to say what he would take to stay with the Braves. Big Homeboy upstairs made sure of that! He doesn’t want to deal with Boras, but he is going to have to, in order to get Texeira signed next year. And do you think the wily agent is going to forget how he got shafted with Andruw this year? Homeboy is going to pay dearly to keep Tex, and if he can’t afford him, then we’ll see how all of you enjoy having a re-tread first baseman, along with a re-tread centerfielder, a retread pitching staff, (because no team is going to give Homeboy the kind of pitcher he is willing to pay for) And a manager who should have picked up his marbles and gone home long ago. Plus a pitching coach and a batting coach who can’t teach their way out of a paper bag. Andruw is going to continue to be a great center fielder for some lucky team next year, and we can sit and regret.

As for greedy Andruw, and his fancy home and many cars, how many of you gripers, wouldn’t love to be able to afford to have them? Kind of hurts when he can have them, and you can’t huh? Big deal, he has the talent and drive to be able to afford them, and you don’t! Tough! Get over it! And how do you know what kind of homes the rest of the team has? I’m sure they aren’t living in tar-paper shacks.

By Jared

October 5, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, are you serious? Bennett? The guy is a minor league journeyman coming off injuries. He’s no more a serious candidate for the rotation next season than Buddy Carlyle or Jason Shiell.

I don’t like Tom Glavine, but the Braves should sign him. It makes too much sense. The PR, the no long term committments, the price, etc. I’d be shocked if Schuerholz doesn’t sign Glavine.

Danny Haren? Not happening. Blanton? Possible but unlikely. Mike Cameron? Not bad but I have to wonder, even if the Braves trade Renteria, can they afford both Cameron and Glavine.

By BamaBrave

October 5, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

As I’ve said before, the only way I’d embrace a return by Glavine is if he came at a steep discount. He’s not even worth $10 million, IMO, but I might go for $7-$8 million. At $10 or above, he costs us payroll flexibility…something we’ll need to land an above-average centerfielder.

I’m bracing myself for his return, however, and the inevitable, nauseating PR/marketing spin that will go with it.

Oh, and one more thing… I’d really love to see McCann shed that baby fat and get himself in prime condition for next year. I love the guy, but c’mon dude…you’re a professional athlete. Turn that extra 20-25 pounds into muscle. We need him to be sharper behind the plate next year.

By uga-brave

October 5, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

any move that eliminates chuck and duck from the rotation is music to my ears. have fun framing windows chuck, your career looks like a mirror image of homerunio allowez (HORACIO RAMIREZ).

By bravesfan

October 5, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Braves’ Teixeira: N.Y. state of mind?

Mark Teixiera may wind up as a Met or a Yankee after he becomes a free agent next year. (Mike Zarrilli / Getty Images)

Braves first baseman Mark Teixeira, who is under contract for one more year, will hit the market at the perfect time. Both the Mets and Yankees not only will have openings at first base, but also could be eager to make a splash as they move into new ballparks in 2009.

Carlos Delgado’s contract with the Mets expires after the 2008 season, as does Jason Giambi’s contract with the Yankees.

Teixeira, a native of Severna Park, Md., might consider the Orioles and Nationals, but both clubs likely would be outbid by the New York teams.

The Braves, while disputing industry talk that they are cutting payroll, are parting with free-agent center fielder Andruw Jones and appear a longshot to keep Teixeira long-term.

Teixeira, represented by Scott Boras, is a free agent after 2008. He rejected an eight-year offer for approximately $140 million from the Rangers in July, prompting his trade to the Braves.

Boras clients rarely sign extensions, preferring to determine their values on the open market

By waiting on 2008

October 5, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Why does everyone want Glavine back. He has a worse record reality wise then our 4 and 5 starters. Heck Glavine gave up,(count them)102 runs in 200 innings. People he has a lot of games he gave up 6 and 7 runs. Thats not good. Thats a #5 starter. James and Carlyle had a better record if ya get right down to it. Spend the money on pitchers but get some that we didnt already have this year. Glavine will not help this team and putting him back in with a iffy Hampton. No thanks. We need wins, not excuses. Not again, not again.

By Gene

October 5, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Hampton is a good guy, but I don’t think that the Braves can count on him. It would be great if Glavin returned. They still have to spend more money if they want to reach post season.

By TBraveFan

October 5, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

FINALLY!! A true voice of reason….

OMG - the total joy of having Tommy here would be indescribable from this fan’s perspective - the experience and mentoring he would bring to the young pitchers - sigh - as you said “JS….JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!!!

but even if they offered $6-7 mill for a year, with Tommy’s buyout, he would be making around $10m — so just something to think about JS and Tommy…..

By Nikki

October 5, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Come home, Tommy! Watching you pitch for the Mets was like having you on loan to the enemy.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

caz, Hunter’s a year older than Andruw and his career numbers are worse.

Hunter’s career bests: .289 AVG/.337 OBP/.524 SLG

Andruw’s career averages: .263/.342/.497

If I’m a rich team and was forced to choose between these two, I take a chance that Andruw’s 2007 was a fluke rather than sign Hunter to a ridiculous deal.

The Braves should steer clear of both.

By brian

October 5, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Nice article, except you said Glavine will give 34-45 starts. That is impossible with a 5 man rotation. 35 starts is the max any modern pitcher will have.

By MetsfaninATL

October 5, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Well, as a Mets fan, my gut response is: “You can have Glavine after his ‘clutch’ performance in the last game of the season!” But actually, I think Glavine was quite good this year.

But do the Braves really need a 41 year old starter who is prone to ocassional blow-up games? Seriously. Smoltz is a freak of nature, Hampton will probably get an ingrown toe nail and be out for 80 games, Hudson can’t put two good seasons together and the rest of the Braves rotation is, well, what’s the word I’m looking for? BAD!

Not that I want the Braves to succeed, but I don’t think Glavine is the answer…

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Caz, Hunter would be too expensive and block the path of Schafter in a year or two when he’s ready. Gonzalez has told several Braves that he’s ahead of schedule, but Bobby Cox didn’t know when I asked him. It’s way too early to know, but Braves aren’t expecting him back before late June or maybe All-Star break….

JEB, I didn’t see the movie Elizabethtown, but your’re right, the soundtrack is tremendous. Played that thing to death after it came out…

By phil

October 5, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Go get Glavine at a discount and then shock the baseball world and trade for johan santana. He wants to win and maybe he will take less than the 20 mil, people are talking about to come to a team that can win the all thing in the next few years. I’m not saying he will take half but santana at 15mil per is what andruw was looking for and i would rather it go to pitching than a 220 hitting CF.

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Why spend 7-9 mil for a guy that will only be a 4th starter? You can bet if Hampton can go, he and his 15 mil salary will be in the 3rd spot in the rotation. A trade for a 3rd spot starter from a team like the Pirates or A’s, for example, would be more cost effective. These teams are always looking for prospects.

By True Braves Fan

October 5, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

A lot of bloggers seem to be jumping on Glavine’s last start. Do you also reject Jake Peavy for his last start that cost the Padres the playoffs? And he will probably win the Cy Young Award.

Since the AL has the DH, maybe they can make a DDF (Designated Defensive Player) position. Then Boras would have a lot of takers of AJ.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Jim S, I take that Boras comment as nothing more than Scott being Scott, laying down the parameters well in advance of the negotiation process. But I wouldn’t be too concerned about that.

If Teixeira wants to stay here, he’s not going to turn down a competitive offer here solely on there being no no-trade clause, I’d guess. And besides, who’s to say Braves wouldn’t give him one? By the time those negotiations occur, Schuerholz could be on way out, or might take into account the next guy following him and bend a bit on his old rules if that’s what it took to sign Tex.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 5, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Jared , you must not have seen Jeff Bennett pitch. The dude throws a slider , sinker(two seam fastball) , curveball and a four seam fastball. He runs his heater up around 93-94 with good control of all four pitches. Brian McCann caught him and raved about the guys talent. He is a diamond in the rough and the Braves found him.

By CJ2

October 5, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

We need to resign Glavine and bring back Julio Franco and Brett Butler to play center field. Maybe Phil Neikro could be the fifth starter?

I feel young again.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 5, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Well, the reason Beane probably isn’t talking about trading Harden is becaue he knows he can’t get nearly as much for him as he can Haren or Blanton. Harden is too injury proned for most teams to give up anything of real value. At this point Beane figures it is probably more worth the risk to hope that Harden stays healthy and sell Haren high than it is to unload Harden on the cheap and then not be able to unload Haren when the time is right. JS is a master at this. I think that could be one of the reasons Renteria will get traded. Trade ‘em while somebody still wants them and will give value for them.

Now, I would take Harden over Haren if it meant not having to give up Johnson, James, Reyes, or Devine. That is possible. Who knows? Maybe Beane decides to just cut his loses with Harden and takes a deal involving something like Villareal and Diaz or Villareal and Ascaino.

I mention Diaz because he is exactly the kind of player Beane would want just like Kelly Johnson is. I will say this. If the Braves could trade Diaz for Harden, I think that could open the door for Renteria to be traded for a centerfielder. Renteria to the Giants for Winn and Lowry sounds awfully good. Renteria to the Pirates for McClouth and Duke wouldn’t be a bad deal either.

By rbg

October 5, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

I agree with most of what you say with the exception of Randy Winn. His glove in SF last yr was bad so replacing a gold glove with a lead glove is NOT the answer.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 5, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Brian , it’s a typo , should have read 34-35 starts.

By StingerSplash

October 5, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Wow. One of the Hag’s best and a wonderful rendition of an underrated Steppenwolf song in one blog. I’d pinch myself, but I’d get hurt and have to go the bloggers’ DL.

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

that franchise might as well shut the doors or relocate.

Actually, I think it’s close to relocating a little south of San Fran. The rumour is, it will be another mockery name… The San Fransico A’s of San Jose or something. Nice ring to it. Just rolls right off the tongue.

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Most of you know of my feelings towards Tom Glavine, BUT, if he can be had for a decent salary (8-9mil) then I say do the deal. I would be extremely disappointed if that were our ONLY move to improve the rotation, but I don’t think that is JS’s plan.

As for Oakland, JS has fleeced them once. Can it happen again? Harden is the one that is intriguing. I don’t know much about his injuries though. Haren would be great. I would give up either BJones or Lillibridge, as well as KJ or Renteria, plus either James or JoJo.

Blanton would take less. The two righties from Toronto are also intriguing: Marcum and McGowan.

As for Cameron, IF he signs for 5 mil per for two years, then OK. But otherwise, go get a younger, less experienced gloveman.

(where have you gone, Ryan Langerhans, the Braves nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woo, woo, woo,…..)

By DDL

October 5, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

I really, really wish the Braves would win next year, let Smoltz and Glavine retire, then retool with Jake Peavy, another Alabama boy who wants to come closer to home.

By KUNIFA

October 5, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

CAN anyone say LEO? 2 years with Roger M. has produced what?

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

you must not have seen Jeff Bennett pitch. The dude throws a slider , sinker(two seam fastball) , curveball and a four seam fastball. He runs his heater up around 93-94 with good control of all four pitches. Brian McCann caught him and raved about the guys talent. He is a diamond in the rough and the Braves found him.

Can we let Jeff Bennett pitch a full major league season before we call him Chris Carpenter?

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

Coach

Can we let Jeff Bennett pitch a full major league season before we call him Chris Carpenter?

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

One other thought to consider. I think Smoltz is done after 2008. Roy Oswalt will be a free agent after to 2008 season. I think the Braves will try to sign Oswalt as a free agent. He has stated he wanted to stay in the NL and would like to play for the Braves. That might change if bobby leaves. Remains to be seen.

By True Braves Fan

October 5, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

TENNPAUL: Avery, Schmidt and Millwood were all developed in the Braves Farm System. Their career number Years-Won-Lost-ERA are: Avery 11-96-83-4.19; Schmidt 13-128-94-3.94; Millwood 11-133-101-3.97; Avery started in 1990; Schmidt in 1995; and Millwood in 1997. MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT STILL STANDS—SCHMIDT AND MILLWOOD CAME AFTER AVERY.

If AJ really wanted to stay a Brave, he would have dumped Boras like he did last time. If you were buying a house and Boras told you he wanted $100,000,000 minimum, would you bother offering $10,000,000? JS was absolultely correct in not biting on Boras smoke screen and spin. Just trying to make Braves fans think JS is the villan.
Just because Tex rejected $140.000,000 from Texas doesn’t mean he won’t take a similar offer from Atlanta. Also, being a GT grad, I don’t think he will let Boras totally determine his future…I give him more credit than that. (Yes, I aso am a GT grad.)

By Eric C.

October 5, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

Dave, Forget it. Glavine doesn’t have much left in the tank.

By GaLiberal

October 5, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

I hope the Braves have gotten some smarts after being burned on so many pitching flameouts. Glavine was released because he choked in important games and HE STILL DOES!!!!! Don’t really matter to me anyhow. I don’t go to the overpriced Ted (cost over $200 for tickets, food, parking, etc) and I don’t care anymore if the Braves lose every game. In fact, it might be better. That way I can get any seat in the park for $1 - like the old days.

By GT96

October 5, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

NO! NO! NO! He is too old and not worth it for the money he wants. Upgrade the pitching staff with younger, but experienced pitchers. He also needs an attitude adjustment. He thinks too much of himself. DO NOT PAY HIM!

By kunifa

October 5, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

LEO LEO LEO say it 3 times; there is no place like home there is no place like home there is no place like home

Call Bobby and John and put Roger on the train to Kansas… We all know what this issues are with our pitching coaches and staff

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Coach I agree on Bennett. The Braves need to strengthen the starting rotation while at the same time keeping an eye on the future. Glavine has no future upside as a Brave. He did last year, but not for the 2008 season. 10 mil for a 4th starter is crazy.

By Harry Balls

October 5, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

True Braves Fan: K Millwood and Jason Smishit were noot the kind of impact players that Glavine, Smoltz, Avery were coming from the minors. If there had of been then they would not have gotten their sorry azzes traded you idiot.

By uga-brave

October 5, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

did anyone see ted lilly’s reaction after giving up that bomb last night? first thought after he slammed down his glove was tanner from the bad news bears, classic. BAMA BRAVE, lets hope that macann does not turn into englebert.

By beachcomber

October 5, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

DOB - I say we just make you GM whenever the home boy retires. Like each of your moves - well maybe Winn rather than Cameron.

There’s precedent - other media/PR guys have moved the front office - Bill Giles, Ed Wade to name a couple I’m familiar with. But then you have a 12-month ridiculous schedule rather than “only” nine months with AJC.

Very little time to browse record, pardon me, music stores which is just a step or two short of heaven.

Great blog!

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

I think there’s too much of a sense of panic about our pitching. 2nd half (post-allstar break), the Braves ERA was 3.93, second only to the Rockies 3.86, and WAY ahead of our division rivals (NYM 4.66; Phillies 4.52; Nats 4.44; Marlins 5.44).

Not saying we need to do nothing; just some perspective.

By TDub

October 5, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Haren doesn’t seem likely to me. Blanton does. What about Lowry from San Fran? Omar can only play SS for them for so long, I bet they’d bite on Renteria as much as I’d hate to lose him…

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

I too am not worried about Boras’ posturing over Teixeira. If it’s a big concern, name the last big star the Braves gave a long term deal to and then traded.
If Teixeira resigns with the Braves he’d have 10/5 protection about 4 years or so after next August. So if the contract was for 6, 7 or 8 years, he’d spend the end of it under full no trade protection.

By JC Smalls

October 5, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Borus is a total A$$ and the Braves don’t like ot deal with him….see Josh Fields situation out of UGA. The Braves had a deal made before the draft and Borus pulled out. My sources tell me that we are still going to sign Andruw to a 1 year deal and that Tex and Andruw along with Glavine, Cox and Schuerholz are all gone after next year. We need to get a pitcher in here next yeat and win it soon because it might be close to the end of our run.

By Colorado Bulldog

October 5, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Please for the love of God no. We need Glavine like we need another hole in our head. Did anyone see how pathetic he was at the end of the year? Go young. Look for a young arm who can hum it like the Rockies have done. Save your money and sign more OF help.

By Choppy

October 5, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

I enjoyed Andruw Jones as a Brave. But let’s be honest….he was not the most willing pupil at the plate. He had a very good hitting coach in Terry Pendleton, who I remember as a crafty and very smart hitter. But it always took Druw forever to make adjustments. He was stubborn, always putting more value on HR’s, rather than doing what it took to keep innings alive. All one needs to do is look (for most of the last few years) one spot ahead of Druw in the batting order to see a guy who knows when to try to hit for power and when to just keep getting hits, or walking. Chipper Jones is one of the most unselfish hitters in baseball, not to mention one of the best hitters. Why in all the years that they played together, did Andruw Jones not take the advice and example of Chipper and apply it to his own hitting? The rest of the Braves young players don’t seem to be too arrogant to not make use of such a great resource and influence. Francoeur took a huge step forward in his development, in large part to his desire to improve and he started doing things like hit to the opposite field (which Chipper isn’t too shy to do either). You have McCann who Chipper has praised for his mature approach to hitting (after only a couple seasons in the majors). And Kelly Johnson who has taken immulating Chipper to the max, even looks like him from the left side, and uses a patient high OBP approach. Teixiera has commented that he was a Chipper Jones fan, as a fellow switch hitter. But the one guy who could have benefitted the most from the proximity, never committed to learning.

So while I’ll miss his defensive prowess, I say so long to his stubborness, his lack of committment to his physical shape (yeah he played every day, but if he’d been 30 pounds lighter, he could’ve had more flexibility in his swing, could have stolen more bases, and still played every day), and his ridiculous contract demands. When you have the holes in your game that Andruw does and you think you’re going to be paid more per year than guys like John Smoltz or Chipper Jones, you’re out of your mind. Those two guys are among the top 10 hitters and pitchers in all of MLB but they are selfless, wanting to not overwhelm the payroll so as to limit the team’s ability to win. Andruw is short sighted. Let’s say the Braves out of loyalty, signed him to $18-20 million a season. They’ve already missed the playoffs two years in a row. Does he think that they are going to miraculously become better? Because signing a contract like that would keep the Braves from adding the starting pitching that they need to even have a chance at the post season. And with every year, the young studs will get closer to costing more and that would force more moves to free up money for the deficiencies of the team. I feel like the Braves have done what they needed to do. Their farm system has not produced the starting pitching it once did, but they’ve produced a wealth of positional talent. So take the money that Andruw would have been paid and apply it to pitching and let your farm system backfill the CF spot (maybe a stopgap for a season until the Schaeffer kid is ready). In fact I think they shouldn’t waste any money on a Mike Cameron type. Why not move Willie Harris to CF and then let Matt Diaz and Kelly Johnson man LF, while letting Yunel Escobar play 2B full time? Then you supplement your bench with the Brandon Jones kid as the extra OF.

By Carolina Gent

October 5, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Gene’s post at 3:22 pretty well hit the nail on the head as far as this blogger is concerned. I wold be delighted to have Glavine back “home” again, and he DID look strange in that Mets uniform. I also agree that Glavine, and even just one more starting pitcher won’t get it done, either. This team needs to re-learn the fundamentals - using the old saying “get ‘em on, get ‘em over, get ‘em in.” Too often last season, especially in close games, the Braves failed at that. Whether it was not getting a bunt down or hitting to the right sided of the infield with a runner on 2nd, the fundamentals just weren’t working. And I’d still like to see more speed on this team. Even with all the good pitching we’ve seen so far in the postseason, the winning teams have all been able to get the big hit when they most needed it.

I certainly have mixed emotions about this past season, glad we finished with a winning record, sad that we missed the playoffs when the division was ripe for the taking. But I also feel like it was the first step towards coming all the way back. The ‘06 team was probably further away from being a contender than we all believed, even over and above the lousy ‘pen. If we can improve by 6-7 games next eyar, that’d put us ay 90 wins and that ought to be in the middle of any race for postseason plans.

Finally, got to agree with DOB on the lack of an offer to AJ. Perhaps the front office had already decided that even a 5/75 offer which Andruw said he’d take to stay, was too much. But why come out with something like JS said and look foolish? DOB, as always, we appreciate your work and your dedication to keeping us informed!

By chipdip

October 5, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Glavine rules….STARK is a clueless jackass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Interesting quote from Jim Bowden, GM of the Nationals, in the Washington Post.

“You don’t know when all of a sudden the market dies for a player, and all of a sudden you can get him at a rate you really want to do,” Bowden said. “Sometimes the market doesn’t bear out what people think it’s going to, and opportunities arise.”

Do you think he might be talking about Andruw?

By Savannah Guy

October 5, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Homers Hate Glavine

On the Glavine possibility, I can appreciate, maybe even understand the sentiment of some Braves “fans” for never wanting Glavine back in a Braves uniform… but my understanding is with a realization that those perspectives are unrealistic and simplistic�kind of a “homer” kind of sentiment, if you will. Don’t get me wrong, I’m as rabid a Braves fan as anyone here, but the “never Glavine” dialog has gotten pretty pathetic and frankly, unwarranted and unfair.

To read some of these posts you’d think the authors were actually inside the room or on the phone during JS/TG/Agent conversations and heard Glavine “betray” the Braves organization and say foul things about the players and the fans on his way out the door. Some posts border hate. Or as Groucho might have put it, “if it was any closer to hate it would be in back of it”.

C’mon folks, lighten up. We love the Braves, we cheer for the Braves, we get (superficially and temporarily) mad when our “beloved” players “choose” to go somewhere else, but there are so many inside and personal factors and variables that we will never know, we can’t possibly hate them for it. Get a grip. It’s a game to us but it’s a career to them. It’s not a video game and the lifelong player teams of the 50’s are over, like it or not.

So, we always love the Braves and every year there are new players that come and current players that are gone. If you get mad at the thought of Glavine coming back, then don’t you also have to get mad at Andruw for “leaving”? Murphy? Grissom? Justice? Maddux? Where does it stop?

Just consider: Your competition offers you a big pay raise and great benefits and, for whatever reason, you can’t negotiate successfully with your current employer that is hamstrung because of corporate budget restraints (or whatever) in an attempt to stay…what do YOU do? Take less because you’ve already been to the Company picnic quite a few times and have a drawer full of ACME monogrammed golf shirts? Or do you go to a very receptive competitor and where the better deal is? You bolt? Thought so.

Glavine back in Atlanta for the right, fair deal makes good sense. Why? Well, just read the DOB article again. It�s pretty clear. Maybe he’ll agree to burning a Met uniform while he denounces the Mets and confesses a monumental lapse in good judgement…(blame it on, oh…say the meds), would that help uncloud, er, change your mind?

By TDub

October 5, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Uh, Smalls, I’ll trust DOB’s sources over your “sources.”

By Vince

October 5, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Is starting with an offer of $6-7 million really a “lowball” offer? I don’t think so. I think $8 million is more than reasonable to pay Glavine. If Glavine wants anything over that, then I won’t believe he wants to pitch here so bad anyway. Hasn’t he already made his money? Next year, he’ll be a 42 year old who had as much to do with the Mets collapse as anyone else. I have nothing against him, I’d love to see him back here, but I have to disagree with you DOB that $6-7 million is lowballing him for a starting offer.

Re: Andruw, I have the utmost respect for Schuerholz telling Andruw right upfront, “hey, we’re not even in the ballpark salary wise with what you’re asking for, so we’re not going to waste your time or ours.” Why even bother offering him a one year deal when it’s obvious Boras would just sneer at it anyway? Let Boras and Andruw go to the Red Sox, Angels and Yankees and demand $20 mil/year for seven years and see what happens. I honestly think Andruw is worth about $60 mil for five years. I wouldn’t want to sign him longer than that. If you think he started slowing down at age 30, just wait until he gets to 34/35/36. I’v always admired Andruw’s talent, but let’s be honest, the guy is stubborn to a fault at the plate. He’s never learned to consistently go to right field and as a result, will continue striking out well over 100 times a year while hitting not better than the .260 range and grounding into countless double plays killing rallys. He’s hit over .270 just once since 2000 btw. Even when it seemed he was starting to get it in ‘05 and ‘06, he still didn’t hit for a decent average. And he will continue to slow in the field.

All I can say is, well played, Schuerholz, well played.

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO TRADE EDGAR RENTERIA FOR PITCHING HAS LOST THEIR MIND Would you trade Chipper? No. Those two were the co-MVP’s this year. Some of you want to dismiss the guy like he’s yesterdays news. If he didn’t miss a month of the season, we would have won the division.

Edgar and Escobar should be untouchable. KJ, Diaz, Willie, Brandon Jones, or any other middle infield prospect I left out are all trade bait. I like KJ, but he’s not in the same league as Escobar. The more I’ve thought about it, KJ has the most to offer a AL team. Both with his power and OBP.

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

My sources tell me that JS and Cox will be at the Airport Marriot bar from 5pm to 10pm singing Elvis tunes. It is during this performance that Schuerholz will announce that he was just kidding and actually signed Andruw to a league minimum deal for 15 years, then he will give Teixeira the keys to the city and send the entire farm system to Seattle for Richie Sexson.
The two plan to do a duet of Suspicious Minds at the top of the 7 o’clock hour.

By The Grinch

October 5, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Morning, all. Everyone who knows me knows how I feel about Glavine; I can’t stand him. He represents everything I hate about baseball. I booed him ruthlessly every time he’s pitched here as a Met (ask anyone from the blog who’s been to a game with me). That said, if they’re gonna bring him back anyway I’ll cease my booing. I won’t do that to someone in our uniform. I won’t cheer him (I’m not a hypocrite), but I won’t boo him. I just hope we get another arm as well.

Did Y’all miss me? I’ve been gone several days. I got drunk last night and came back to make a triumphant entrance and the blog was broke. Coitus interruptus.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

And this news flash… Jim Tracy is being fired by Pittsburgh today. Okay folks, when do you think it will finally get through to the ownership of the Pirates that the problem is not the manager? After 15 years of ownership by committee you would think they would have a clue.

Yes, I agree that TBS has done an excellent job with the playoff telecast. They really are head and shoulders above FOX and ESPN.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

UGA-Brave, great Tanner reference. Glad someone else remembers him and references him on regular basis.

Whenever a Braves game goes into extra innings or a team makes a big ninth-inning comeback or whatever, I often say in the pressbox, like Tanner, to no one in particular, “The game isn’t over!” And I have to explain to younger punks about Tanner at the Astrodome.

Bob Watson pleading to “Let the kids play.”

And then the crowd chanting, “Let … them … play! Let … them … play!”

Movie bliss.

The first one was best, because of Walter Matthau and Tatum O’Neal, but sequel (“Breaking Training”) was also solid, because at least they had same dude playing Kelly Leak.

By Novice Ned

October 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

I’m sure someone answered my question on yesterday’s blog, but I can’t access it now, so I’ll ask again. Is Mahay the only “prominent” reliever from our bullpen who we need to re-sign? And I’m not including Dotel in that “prominent” category since he only made a cameo appearance for us. But I think the other guys, Soriano, Moylan, Yates, Gonzo, and Acosta are definitely inked for next season (at least), right? That Ring kid looks promising but he walks too many batters. I’d rather offer Mahay a 2-year deal and not have to sweat finding a dependable lefty reliever.

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

choppy I was all with you, right up to the point where you mentioned putting Willie Harris in CF. Were you watching the games?

By Kevrock

October 5, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

I like the way you think. I totally agree with it. The only part is will they happen. Also, you should be in sportingnews too instead of Mr. Excitement Bowman.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Ppaddy, you’re only off by, oh, 3-4 years on Oswalt’s contract and free agency.

He just completed the first season in a five-year, $73 mill contract, which includes salaries of $13 mill in 2008, $14 mill in 2009, $15 mill in 2010, and $16 mill in 2011, with a $16 mill club option for 2012 that has a $3 mill buyout.

So no, I can assure you Braves won’t be trying to sign him as a free agent after the ‘08 season.

By Shawn B

October 5, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

DOB, I would love to see Haren in a Braves uniform, but after all the great reports I’ve read about Brent Lillibridge, I think you’ve been pretty high on him lately, I sort of balk at including him in a deal right now. Do you think Lillibridge is expendable right now, or should the Braves try to hold onto him and maybe try to move Kelly Johnson in a trade instead and open up a spot for Lillibridge or even Escobar if the Braves decide to hold onto Renteria another year or two?

By Millard McMuffin

October 5, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Dave! Dave!

If Scheurholz pulls a tooth and puts it under his pillow will the tooth fairy give us a centerfielder?

Huh Dave? Huh Dave?

You think?

By OldCoach

October 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

The Braves starting rotation for 2008 is already nearly settled: Smoltz Hudson Reyes (Bobby has already settled on him. (He called him a solid #2 that just needed seasoning.) Bennett (Bobby said the Braves caught lightening in a bottle with him) So that leaves one hole to fill—James? Arm problems? Hamptom can he come back and be effective? Glavine—-Is he over the hill? Or will the Beaves make a trade to fill this spot. Doubt it, the minor league system doesn’t need further depletion. I agree with Dave—The Braves will sign Glavine and hopefully James or someone else can fill his shoes when he retires in a year or two. Not a rotation to win the World Series but certainly one that is good enough to win the N.L. East.

By Luv 2 Hate Me

October 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Notorious B.I.G Please lay off the STICKY because you sound very foolish. Too many shot guns to the head will cause foolish talk. But anyway I think Tom will be a great addition to the group. Now if Andruw will reconsider and take a hometown discount for 1 year. Cameron is OK but Druw is good, even for defensive purposes. They need to trade Hampton, Thorman, & James. Pick up Harden or D Train and please get some realiable utility players. As for the Mets, stick a fork in them cuz they are DUNN!

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

OK my bad

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

Daybed, this is the brand new Black Francis album, Blue Finger. He’s gone back to Black Francis moniker instead of Frank Black

Yes, I have the old Frank Black stuff. This new one just came out.

By Luny421

October 5, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Screw Hampton. i’ll take Chuck James or any one of the rag tags over Hampton. If we had dumped him like we should have, we could still afford Andruw. Who’s daughter is Hampton sleeping with in order to keep his job? the man hasn’t worked in TWO YEARS!

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Novice Ned, Mahay and Dotel are only free agents among the regulars in the bullpen (realizing Dotel wasn’t a regular)

By tim

October 5, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Why does every one dog on chuck james. I think Chuck James is going to be a good pitcher in the near future. Do not get rid of him. Look at his era and win loss record. The problem is he is not a #3 pitcher yet. If we put him in the 4/5 slot he is a cheap easy option for the future. I think he could be a #2 if he can keep the ball down in the strike zone. Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Chuck james, reyes. I’m not counting on Mike Hampton for s**. I’ll believe it when I see it.

By JC Smalls

October 5, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

By TDub I will not name my sources, but they are highly involved in the Braves organization and told me about Tex weeks before his name was brought up along with the Mike Gonzales trade and a few other moves. You don’t have to trust my sources, but I do and he said that Borus is all fired up because Andruw really wants to stay a Brave and that the announcement that we made this week is nothing but playing hard ball.

By Train

October 5, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

I don’t get the logic of, Hampton has to be in the rotation he’s healthy “because of salary.” We’re paying Hampton whether he pitches or not; his salary is a sunk cost. The only forward-looking question is whether the team is better with him pitching or not pitching (or starting or not starting). The fact that he gets paid whatever he gets paid should be irrelevant, no?

Same point about the argument frequently heard this season that we couldn’t bench Andruw because of his salary. Maybe the team would have been better if Andruw had spent some time on the bench; maybe not. But that should have been the only question.

By StingerSplash

October 5, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

That would be Jackie Earle Haley as Kelly Leak in Bad News Bears and in Breaking Training, and a wonderfully understated turn by William DeVane in Bad News Bears Part Deux. I still Ogilvie getting his mack on with the girls while scouting the Houston Toros.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Shawn B, it’ll take more, much more, than Kelly Johnson for the Braves to get Dan Haren.

I’d only trade Lillibridge for a young ace with an affordable salary next few years. Haren fits the bill.

By Singindablues

October 5, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Glavine would be an asset during the season but no longer a starter to count on for a pressure win in the playoffs. Hence the need to add another power arm in the starting rotation.

By dwight fry

October 5, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

My hope is that the Braves acquire Randy Winn, not Mike Cameron.

I have seen a lot of Randy Winn over the past couple of years. He may have a little less power than Cameron but he hits for a much higher average and is comparable defensively. He is also highly intelligent and would be a great addition to the Braves’ team.

By WHO CARES MAN!

October 5, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

As a Yankee fan, I could give two blank blank about Tom Glavine coming back to the Braves. He is like an ugly chick, you dump her but he has no other place to go so he keeps coming back “Home”! PLEASE. He never wanted to leave here and was never comfortable in NY. He can’t pitch in a place where you “Have” to win. Mediocrity has always been an Atlanta Braves trademark. Sorry, no one outside of Dixie cares about division championships. It’s World Series that count and in the last 21 years, the Braves have the same amount of titles as the Mets…1!!!!

By anotherbrave

October 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

I’m just glad I’m not having to negotiate with any of these agents, especially Borass. No human is worth what these guys are making. He publically announces no way is he going to take a discount on Andruw Jones; then blasts the Braves for not even making an offer. Go figure

By Tyler

October 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Harden could be a steal. Maybe Prado and a bullpen arm or Thorman. Haren is another story. It would probably take Escobar or KJ to get him plus more. Still. Escobar for Haren would suit me just fine. We have Lillbridge ready when Edgar leaves. I personally want Escobar to play 3B when Chipper leaves. Then sign Glavine if we have the money.

CF is a tossup. I don’t want Cameron, but he may be the best option. So be it. A strong pitching staff would take it’s production.

Smoltz, Hudson, Haren/Harden, Glavine, Reyes/Bennett(IF healthy) would be ridiculous!

KJ, Renteria, Chipper, Tex, Franceour, McCann, Diaz, Cameron would also be sick!

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Train, so if Hampton’s healthy and pitching, you propose they do what? Tell him sit on the bench and draw his $15 mill salary while occupying a spot on the 25-man roster? Send him to the bullpen?

Or just cut him altogether so he doesn’t take one of the 25-man roster spots, and pay him $15 million to sit at his new home in Arizona and chill out?

Reality, man. It’s not always pleasant, but it’s, well, real. You don’t cut a veteran pitcher making $15 million if he’s healthy and insurance isn’t paying part of the tab.

By Ole Man Bourbon

October 5, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Hey, that’s pretty good musical taste for a sports writer. Thurston Moore, gotta get that.

I disagree about the Braves’ handling of A Jones, Boras gave them a high-ball offer, and the Braves chose to ignore it. The pendulum swings both ways. Boras wants everyone to entertain his extreme demands, but it would be foolish for GMs to do that to all of them.

By Savannah Guy

October 5, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Grinch Hey good denizen. Seems we’ve all been wandering in and out and irregular and such. If you tried the last blog it wasn’t just irregular, it was downright constipated. Anyway yes, you have been missed but seems all the regulars have been spotty. Or maybe it’s just my eyes…with all those, uh, spots and all. Where ya been hanging?

By jbutler

October 5, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

DOB So- you can thank my hometown Rox for keeping you out of Philly during the Series. If you end up here in Mile Hi- there’s some great spots in LoDo to check out. I know you’d rather be sunning/funning..but you have to admit- this Rox thing is pretty fun to watch.

The new Boss CD is good/vintage E Street. Probably best since The River- but awfully negative. I know he pushes the Arlo Guthrie thing…but not really my cup. But better than The Rising. Hope his tour goes back to the long shows…That’s classic.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Shawn B Lillibridge is going to be a great major leaguer but Kelly has already proven he can hit big league pitching. That is the only question mark left on Brent’s resume’.

Yes, those young Diamondbacks look very good as well as the Rockies. Both are very young ballclubs with big upsides. Likly what the Braves could look like if the Atlanta fans were willing to loose 100 games a season for a couple of years.

The Braves, however, have tried to rebuild a little less drastically.

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

DOB

I�d only trade Lillibridge for a young ace with an affordable salary next few years. Haren fits the bill.

Am I wrong in thinking it would take much more to acquire Haren??? I’m under the impression it would take Kelly Johnson, Brent Lillibridge, Jo Jo Reyes and either Cole Rohrbough or Tommy Hanson to acquire Haren(who is an ace with an affordable contract). Maybe I am wrong. Wouldn’t it be smarter to shoot for Joe Blanton at a lesser price(in terms of talent).

By mitt

October 5, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Chuck James should be dogged. He is a dog with fleas.

It appears that he won’t sufficiently invest in his career by doing things such as developing more stamina through conditioning and developing another pitch. He refuses to give up his day job installing windows - what does that tell us about his future prospects?

He is at best a long reliever.

By cmorrisdee

October 5, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Glavine is too old, put him out to the pasture

By keylargo25

October 5, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah

What happened to Langerhans? He came up with KJ in 2005 and was a better prospect on offensive and defense. In 2005 he hit .267 with an OBP of .348, 22 doubles and 8 HR’s in 326 AB’s. Defensively he was above average and would have possibly been the answer in centerfield this (2008) year.

He was given up on last year, traded twice and ended up hitting under .200 and on the Nats bench. (For all you “trade Edgar people”, this is why I don’t agree).

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Tex has some incentive to do a deal with ATL this offseason, instead of waiting til next year. Assuming of course, that the Braves want to negotiate now, which I hope they do.

His next contract (whether he signs it this year or next) is surely gonna be close to $100 mil (maybe much more); UNLESS he goes out and blows out a knee or shoulder, or contracts vertigo (who knows?) in 2008, or his skills decline for some other reason (a la AJ), which is unlikely but possible.

The security of signing now rather than later is worth a lot - a whole lot. That $100+ mil is not guaranteed until the contract is signed.

If I’m Tex, and if I really like Atlanta like I’ve said I do, I like $90 mil NOW, GUARANTEED, a lot better than the possibility of $110 mil NEXT YEAR, “as long as all goes well” and with the highest bidder.

And if I’m JS, I try to take advantage of that reality and get a deal done now.

I really hope the Braves will go ahead and try to get this done, rather than spend all next year with Tex as a “pending free agent.”

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 5, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

I guess paying $10 million for Glavine is not that bad of an option, although I’d rather have 2 younger players for the same price. Just please not Curt Schilling, he’s just as obnoxious as Barry Bonds if not more so.

By Greg O.

October 5, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

DOB, there’s obviously plenty of talk about players the Braves might get from other teams, but how about locking up one of their own - Jeff Francoeur. Any talk of signing him to a contract like the one Brian McCann signed last off-season?

By Shawn B

October 5, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

DOB, I certainly understand it would take much more than just KJ to get a guy like Haren. I guess what I’m trying to pick your brain about is where you think Lillibridge ranks among the Braves prospects that are within a couple of years of being Major League ready. Do you see any prospect they have right now that you would see as being untouchable, short of getting a guy like Dan Haren, who is obviously a gem if you can get him on the Braves staff. And I’m not including Escobar as a prospect anymore, he’s shown he’s a Major Leaguer now, man that guy is a stud!

By dwight fry

October 5, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Springsteen no longer has anything to say - lyrically or musically.

Go back and listen to his first 2 albums: Greetings from Asbury Park, and The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle.

They were brilliant. And fresh.

By Nelson

October 5, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Tommy could help the Braves in the regular season only, he has proven he is not good in the play-off ( I think he probably will be better than Carlyle and Cormier), but he is not for sure the salvation floating device pitcher we need!. If he is cheap get it if not let him go!

By Train

October 5, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Dave, I get the reality—lots of people seem to think this way, including the people who make the real decisions. I just don’t get the logic. There is no logic! If Hampton makes the team worse, then you’re effectively paying more than $15 million—the money plus the extra losses. That doesn’t make sense to me, but maybe I’m missing something (not the reality of what will happen; I get that, unfortunately).

By Novice Ned

October 5, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB. Did Mahay “fit in” the clubhouse? Do you have a sense one way or another if he will likely get an offer to return?

By Dick

October 5, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

JS signing Glavine makes about as much sense as keeping Woodard, Pardo, James and also signing Franco. Glavine is washed up, he has nothing left. He is finished. Oh he might win 10 ggames a year, but how many will he loose. Last Sunday was no fluek, he has lost it. Don’t sign him.

By JB

October 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Are you serious? “…. if the Braves aren�t ready with an offer in early November, as soon as its permitted, or if they low-ball Glavine by asking him to take $6-7 mill, then they have no one to blame but themselves and should expect no sympathy.’ You call $6-$7 Million a “low ball” for a 41 year old pitcher who can’t win when it counts? Look at his post season record - it’s terrible! Expect NO SYMPATHY from me!!

By ppaddy123

October 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

In terms of ERA alone, Joe Blanton was the 41st best pitcher in the bigs.

By Chop Chop

October 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

I’m in full offseason mode regarding the Braves. It’s too damn hot to fire up the hot stove, folks. Patience, grasshoppers.

That being said, I’ll take Glavine next year. If he’s good, he’ll win some of you hataz over. If he stinks, all of us will hate him. Well, until he goes to Cooperstown.

I believe Tex is a goner after ‘08. As bravesfan posted, the Mets and Yanks will both have big first base openings after next season. We’re not going to outbid those teams for Tex. Hell, the Red Sox may get in on it. Tex will leave and, most likely, we’ll also miss the playoffs for the third straight year.

As you can see, I’m not optimistic. We’ll probably have some bum who kicks the ball around out in center. Chuck James will finally learn a third pitch: “This is top-of-the-line vinyl siding, sir.” Mike Hampton will stay healthy and pitch like Mark Redman. I give up.

Well, maybe not.

By alan from Atlanta GA.

October 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

I’ve changed my opinion of Tom Glavine this time around. We really need him, especially after watching the pitchers this year. We’re still paying for Mike Hampton who may never pitch a game for us again and i think of all the millions wasted on him, same with Mike Gonzalez.

By Efrim

October 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

If I’m Tex, I ask for an 8 year 160 million dollar contract. Yankees will pay him that.

By Jim

October 5, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Good article. For sentimental, not practical, reasons I’d like to see Tommy pitch here again, but he is probably a 3-4 starter, or maybe even a 5 so he could skip a turn every now and then and maybe not wear down as quickly at the end of the season.

Do you think Schuerholtz may have given Andruw the word as early as he did to see if, after he goes the free agent route and maybe doesn’t get an offer from a warm weather team he would enjoy playing for, he might tell Boras to take the home town discount?

By Martha Clinkscales

October 5, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

I am a dugout season ticket holder and have been for a long time. When TimeWarner held the purse strings a number of poor roster decisions were made. I can only home the new regime will encourage better decisions. Tom Glavine is a good decision for the Braves. Make it happen John!

By Mark

October 5, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

It’s makes no logical sense what so ever!!!! Why would the braves make a deal for Glavine when they could get a younger arm in Santana (Twins). The money that they supposedly saving for not signing Andruw could be used partially to lock up Teixeria and Santana makes far better since than signing Glavine back because of sentimental reasons. What the Braves are saving by so call not signing Andruw could be split equally among those two guys plus giving the Braves the insurance of having another bonafide ace in the rotation. After 2008 the focus will be on what to do with Smoltz? If the Braves are skimmish about resigning Smoltz then the Braves are in a worse situation because Glavine is not an ace and Tim Hudson is some what unreliable in that role as well. Santana makes the logical choice if the Braves are going to place and emphasis on pitching then why not go for the best one available. At least entertain that thought first before committing to Glavine. As far as trading for Santana, I would offer Renteria up to since his contract is up at the end of the year of 2008, plus his productivity would mean they wouldn’t have to give up too many prospects in order to obtain Santana and with him on their books for one year would free them to sign their other guys to long term contracts after 2008. With Renteria add in Reyes and the Braves would be making a great deal especially if they are not depleting their farm system of talent. If not then throw in Dotel and the Braves are giving the Twins the arm they need to strengthen their bullpen.

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Chuck James will finally learn a third pitch: �This is top-of-the-line vinyl siding, sir.�

That’s pretty good.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

As DOB noted, the Braves rotation ranked 7th in the NL in ERA. They ranked 12th in innings pitched.

Based upon their stats this year, a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James and Blanton would have given you 1022 innings pitched and a 3.78 ERA. That would have ranked them first in innings pitched and in ERA by far.

A rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James, and Haren would have given you 1014 innings and a 3.59 ERA. Again, by far, the most innings pitched and best ERA in the NL.

Combine that with a bullpen with a 3.54 ERA - the second best in the NL. Their ERA would have been even lower if not all those innings pitched. Guys like Soriano and Yates and even Wickman were abused and exhausted by the time July and early August arrived. Wickman pitched 13 of the first 24 games. Maybe things might have had a different outcome with his health, performance, and attitude if he was not abused so early which seemed to rub him the wrong way.

But assume the bullpen ERA does not change for argument’s sake even with less innings. You are talking about an overall pitching staff with an ERA around the 3.50, 3.60, 3.70 range. That would have had them neck and neck with the Padres who pitch in a pitchers park for the NL lead.

Consider this as well: The Braves were 17-13 when Chuck James started. The Braves were 9-20 when their fifth starters started. Assuming Chuck as the fifth instead of the scrubs we had this year, that right there is an 8 game improvement and makes this a 92 win ballclub with a division title. and if hampton is healthy, he will be that guy and not chuck, which is even better if hampton is healthy.

Then Haren and Glavine would be stepping into Buddy, Chuck, and Kyle’s shoes as the 3rd and 4th starters. The Braves combined to go 35-32 in the starts of Chuck, Buddy, and Kyle this year. Those 37 starts would be done by Glavine and Haren/Blanton.

In those 37 starts, the Braves got a 4.90 ERA out of Chuck, Buddy, and Kyle. Glavine/Haren would give you a 3.77 ERA and Glavine/Blanton would give you a 4.01 ERA.

With this offense averagine 5 runs a game like it did this year one less run a game to score because of starting pitching would be critical. You might be talking 40-27 instead of 35-32 in those starts.

That would make this a 97 win team.

As for those who say losing Andruw is so critical, it’s nonsense. I love Andruw but he was not Andruw this year and the Braves still scored 810 runs, an average of 5 runs a game despite him killing rallies. That made them third in the league in scoring behind only Philly and Colorado who play in hitter’s parks.

In centerfield, the Braves ranked 12th in the NL in OPS, 9th in SLG, 14th in OBP, and dead last at 16th in AVG. They can call up Joey Bag O’Donuts from the minors to give them .226, .312, .410, .722 out of center.

Even if the guy they throw out there is that bad, would it matter? Didn’t seem to this year. Not only were we getting such horrible production out of center but he was the cleanup hitter for two/thirds of the season. And the Braves still managed to score that many runs.

Any Joe Blow we call up could give us that and the offense would still be as potent. And the thing is he would probably be hitting 8th and not 4th. Heck, Ryan Langerhans could probably be that productive and that’s saying something.

Getting Glavine in addition to Haren/Blanton would make the necessity of having a real productive somewhat expensive centerfielder not that necessary because less runs would have to be scored.

So, enough with the childish I hate Tom Glavine sentiment because he loves money and is a staunch union man. It just does not make sense. And stop worrying so much about money. It ain’t your money. They’ve got the money. They are just bunch of cheapskates. I don’t root for them to make money. I root for them to win.

This is a 95 to 100 win team with the pitchers DOB proposed and a team that will make alot more money by having more fans go to games and buy merchandise, driving up how much they can charge their corporate sponsors and their television and radio partners. Trips to the postseason, especially long trips, help generate lots of revenue streams as well. Ya gotta better chance of that with the guys that DOB proposed than with others.

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

If I�m Tex, I ask for an 8 year 160 million dollar contract. Yankees will pay him that.

Efrim, I agree. But Tex can’t get that offer for another year. The one negotiating advantage the Braves have right now is that, we can negotiate with him right now.

My numbers are probably low, admittedly; but right now, we do have an advantage over the Yanks or anyone else. A year from now, we won’t. So get it done (or forget it).

By Shamus Thacker

October 5, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

How could any young pitcher NOT improve with Smoltz and Glavine as teammates? All the collective years with Leo, all the innings pitched, all the situations faced, the wins, the titles, and their two, totally distinct, pitching styles, result in a two-man database of pitching know-how.

Bring Glavine in. There’ll be many more pluses than minuses…

By dwight fry

October 5, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Bob Melvin for manager of the year.

Wouldn’t it be great to have a bright, in-the-moment guy like him as Braves manager rather than a grunting old fart who’s stewing in his own juices.

By Jeff R

October 5, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Even in his heyday, Glavine had only midrange velocity. Age, I think, is wearing him down. Take any more off his fastball, and he’s sort of Mark Redman with a ticket to the Hall (based on career stats). Any time a control pitcher loses velocity, it’s deadly. He’d be worth a chance if he’d be willing to sign a one-year $3-4 milllion contract with incentives (15+ wins; 200 innings; 35 starts).

I think the Braves, and Braves’ fans, are setting themselves up for a major disappointment if Tommy G comes home.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, wouldn’t the Braves have to trade for Winn? This seems to make less sense than just signing Cameron for about the same amount as Winn makes and not have to give up any players.

Winn will make $8 million in 2008 and $8.25 million in 2009, according to info I can find on his contract.

By Christine

October 5, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

Please, please, please get Tommy back on our team. We love him here.

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

My take on the AJ announcement. I think JS doesn’t like Boras at all, and the org probably does not want AJ for anything near what Boras thinks he is worth.

I suspect JS is telling Boras, I will not be used in your scheme to get more for AJ than he is worth. Just my guess.

It would have been kinda cruel to have told AJ, we just want to go in another direction.

I suspect if Tex is not signed this winter, our chances to keep him diminsh greatly a year from now.

By TLee

October 5, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Why do the Braves keep recycling these old pitchers. I remember it was said they had one of the best farm leagues for up and coming pitchers/players. What ever happen with that, or did it vanish when Leo Mazzone left?

By Yars

October 5, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Offer Glavine $9 million. Take it or leave it. I think that would be fair. Not insulting, but not overpaying. Glavine has maybe 15-16 wins left in that arm of his. As for Blanton, perhaps a package of Renteria-Chuck James could get him? Would that be too much? Even if a trade for Blanton doesn’t happen, a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Jo Jo, & either James/Hampton looks really good. I think there will be more teams this winter looking for a solid starting SS more so than a 2B. Cards, Tigers, Giants to name a few. I still get the feeling Renteria will be the one traded. now playing: Fascination Street by the Cure.

By flange1

October 5, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Question for all,

If we were to try to get Haren from the A’s what would it take?

I agree with Robert (JIB) that it will take KJ, Devine and Lillibridge

Mark,

You want Santana? What would it take to get him?

I believe it would take Reyes, Lillibridge, Schafer and Hanson. Maybe more……

Thoughts?

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Shaun Winn is a much better player at this point than Cameron. Also, for the Giants to get rid of him (they have a plethora of OF prospects in their system), they would probably pay close to half his salary, and we could get him for someone that is a mid-level prospect, at the most.

Cameron is not what we need. We need another pitcher IN ADDITION to Glavine. Essentially, we need 2 starters.

WW I brought up Langerhans halfway as a joke, but also being half serious. With the addition of 2 starters, Langerhans would be a decent CF for this team, even if he only hit 245 with 10 HR’s and 50 RBI’s. You don’t expect much more from a #8.

Now, in reality, Langerhans is probably not coming back. No problem. What I am saying to all (and Shaun) is that we really don’t need a Cameron. One of the second tier CF’ers with good range, and a decent arm would be just fine.

Whaddya think?

By mike

October 5, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

I agree with you guys that say that Mahay needs to return next year. The braves went several years without a reliable lefty in the bullpen and now they finally have one that can get out righties as well as lefties, has good control, and can pitch multiple innings. I agree that Ring and Gonzalez might make great contributions in 08 but Ring seems to put runners on and you cant be certain that Gonzalez will come back strong after such a big surgery. With Mahay, you know ur going to get quality, reliable pitching. I also agree that the Braves rotation would be near untouchable with the additions of Glavine and either Haren or Blanton. But if the Braves spend the money on Glavine and Haren Im not sure that theres going to be any money left to get Randy Winn or Cameron. And I dont think either of those guys fit in any way. I think Blanco or Francoeur in CF for a year would be just fine without having to spend any money or block Schaefer’s path to the big leagues.

By Yunel Lillibridge

October 5, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

**DOB… What are your thoughts and/or the Braves front office folks’ thoughts on Brent Lillibridge in CF for Atlanta next year? We he even be given a chance in CF in winter ball or Spring Training? He’s played CF before, he’s seemingly athletic and quick enough to play the position professionally, and he could potentially bat leadoff and steal some bases. AND… you don’t have to spend a lot of money to fill the hole. He’s also one of those “born ballplayers” from what I hear, though I personally haven’t yet seen him play.

While we’re on the subject of “ballplayers”, Yunel Escobar should NOT be traded under any circumstances. The kid is special, and has baseball instincts that come along once a decade. Really… those stolen bases in Arizona and on the Brewers at the Ted in the last homegame while the pitchers napped and didn’t call time are examples of that “instinct” and understanding he has of the game. Not to mention he’s aggresive, has tremendous range, a cannon arm, and gap to gap power (which should improve) with patience (though not as patient as KJ just yet).

Then with the above in mind, you move Yunel to 3rd and Lillibridge to SS when Chipper hangs em up and Schafer is ready in a couple of years.

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Yars What scares me about the Glavine situation is that we would be happy with JUST getting Glavine for the staff. I don’t think that is the case, but I hear guys on here saying that the Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James, and JoJo/Bennett would be a good staff. That scares me!

Efrim I know that you and many others are adamant about keeping Renteria, and I can understand why. BUT, Edgar is one of many excellent middle infielders we have, and with his salary and age, I can understand why he would be the Braves top trading piece. Edgar would be coveted by some teams, much the same way that KJ or Escobar would be coveted by others.

Also, I think that Lillibridge might be the piece that would bring a pitcher of Haren’s caliber.

By don

October 5, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

If the Braves had signed Glavine last fall, they would still be playing.

There aren’t many good prospects left in the minors. All of them were4 sent to Texas.

If you pay $20 million for a first baseman, it better be Lou Gehrig and not Teixeira. The same goes for $15 million.

By Roundup

October 5, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

After reading the posts here I think Braves fans would be quick to boo Glav if he had a couple of tough outings. A couple of bad games and all the stink of the past would rear it’s ugly head. He is another 5 or 6 inning pitcher that would continue to overtax the bullpen. If we’re going with youth let’s stay the course and get youth. Maybe Glav would be better served to come back as the pitching coach or bullpen coach if someone thinks he would be a good influence on James/Reyes.

By Jeff R

October 5, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Let’s hope Andruw bounces back, but nothing he did offensively this season suggests that he will. This guy was in his contract season. Usually, you get over and above performances from players when the dollars are on the line. Not saying he didn’t try to have a career-year, but, I think, his skills have definitely begun to erode. Cameron may not be Andruw in his prime, but he’s a pretty good bet to play solid defense and produce good offensive numbers.

Oh, and I like DOB’s throw-out line on Shilling. Who cares if he fits the team’s personality (much overrated anyway)? The guy can still bring it.

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Yunel Liilibridge I see Lillibridge as a Craig Biggion type of player. He could probably play almost every position on the field, if what we are hearing about him is true. I would not be opposed to putting him out in CF for a few years.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

And this is why I hate cheaters

As many of you must already know, Marion Jones has admitted to taking steroids. It is expected she will be striped of her medals but the real pity is the runner up will never experience the adulation, the exhilaration and the financial rewards the cheater experienced.

Many have asked, what is the perfect crime? The perfect crime is not one in which the police cannot find the perpetrator, it is one in which no one realizes a crime has been committed.

At least when I watched pro wrestling, I knew the outcome was preordained and the roided up bodies were just for show. What is learned form all this? Go ask Barry… Do you think he will ever admit to taking steroids? What about Roger? They will never admit the obvious. There will always be those who will want to believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. Looks like the clean athlete is a fairytale too.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, I don’t really see much difference between Winn and Cameron. Winn’s a year younger but I don’t see all that much difference.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Hardball Times has Cameron at 10th in outfielder win shares in the NL. Winn at 19th.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

don No good prospects left in the minors????? What team do you follow? Do you even pay attention to any information imparted on the Braves organization? Do you restrict your judgment based solely on news provided by ESPN? A lot of the Braves prospects have made it to Atlanta but trust me when I tell you there is talent left on the farm.

By brian

October 5, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

DOB - you get an “Amen” from me on that article.

BRING BACK GLAVINE BRING BACK GLAVINE BRING BACK GLAVINE BRING BACK GLAVINE

Simply put he is the best pitcher available for the price to add to our rotation. He is a great leader who will help mentor Reyes and Chuck James who can take over increasing roles in 2008-9. Glavine is a Brave. Glavine Will go into the Hall of Fame as a Brave. Glavine won the all important Game 6 to give us our World Series.

Sign Glavine and sign him now. No long drawn out process. Offer him the da$% contract and simply say

Welcome home Tommy!

By TF

October 5, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

That makes two postings that mention the tooth fairy.

By mariner

October 5, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun, if you don’t mind, where do Andruw and Francoeur rank in WS?

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

Shaun You are right. Not much difference. My preference would be to go with a third option that would be cheaper, and spend the $$ on pitching.

My only leanings toward Winn would be if getting him would help us to pry away one of the Giant’s starters, which is somewhat unlikely. Although, JS has pulled a few rabbits out of the hat before.

But, you are right about there not being much of a difference between the two. My first statement was wrong about Winn being better.

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: I’d love it if it were that simple with the stats. The A’s pitchers would be facing different lineups altering their season end totals. Nevertheless you are correct that a rotation with 2 new additions would drastically improve our chances, assuming the additions are worth a damn.

I’m interested in seeing moves made for more than 1 pitcher. The Glavine reunion would be a neat marketing ploy but nothing in terms of a long term plan. If we have a choice between no Glavine and two new proven young studs in the rotation, I’d take the two young pitchers.

Wayne: I hear ya on Cameron. Why give him the salary of a guy that is 3 years younger and better? What, just to save a middling minor leaguer that has no future with the club?

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun You have access to information that I don’t have (nor, do I desire to have, to be honest!).

What does the numbers say about the following players defensively: Chris Duffy, Ryan Church, Ryan Langerhans, Ryan Freel, Cody Ross, Cory Sullivan, Corey Patterson, David DeJesus, Nate McLouth, and Rocco Baldelli (sorry folks, couldn’t resist!).

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

October 5, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, country songwriter Liz Anderson actually wrote “I’m a Lonesome Fugitive,” which was Merle Haggard’s first No. 1 hit. She wrote “(All My Friends Are Gonna Be) Strangers” for him as well.

Just thought she deserved due credit for the fine set of lyrics at the top of your blog.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

mariner, Francoeur was 9th and AJones was 21st among NL outfielders.

By Notorious B.I.G.

October 5, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

Notorious B.I.G Please lay off the STICKY because you sound very foolish. Too many shot guns to the head will cause foolish talk.

Love 2 Hate Me You’re mad cause my style you’re admiring, Don’t be mad … UPS is hiring……. My forte causes caucasians to say, he sounds demented, Car weed scented, if I said it, I meant it, Bite my tongue for no one, call me evil, or unbelievable, ….. those that brushes my clutches, get put on crutches, Get smoked like dutches, from the masta, Hate to blast ya, but I have ta, ….. Try to play guerilla, when you aint no killa, The gats by your liver, your upper lip quiver, You’re ready to die, tell god I said “hi”

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

10 Paul I still like the duo from Toronto, and the trio from the ChiSox. Haren would be a real stud though.

As for CF, I just don’t see that we need to spend too much there. Let’s get someone that we can keep for a few years, just in case Schafer doesn’t pan out.

By Edgar

October 5, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

Come Home Tommy!!!! GO Braves

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

Wayne, yeah, good point. If Winn comes in a deal for a solid starter, that would be fine. But Cameron is probably preferable otherwise because the Braves would only have to give up money.

TennPaul, who are you talking about who is three years younger and better than Cameron? Winn is a year younger and Cameron was actually better last year.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, here you go:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&linesToDisplay=50&orderBy=total&direction=DESC&seasonfilter%5B%5D=2007&leaguefilter%5B%5D=All&teamfilter%5B%5D=All&posfilter%5B%5D=All&Submit=Submit

Don’t take my word that Win Shares is a decent stat to measure value. Do the research yourself. Like I said yesterday, stats like Win Shares and VORP are useful; give them a try. You may like them.

By mariner

October 5, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun, thanks.

By **billy g**

October 5, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, Do you have an insider info on Hampton’s health? As it stands now, I would certainly not count on his return. That guy has been an orthopedic disaster.

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this

Not with the Win Shares again…(shaking my head)

By The Grinch

October 5, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Thank you, SG; I’m glad SOMEBODY cares. I’ve been falling behind in school among other things; I’m fianlly caught up.

Let’s go Thrashers!

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

10Paul, I agree. But I don’t think they are all of a sudden gonna put up horrible stats like Davies or JoJo or Redman. Their ERAs would probably not drop that far. The innings pitched might be different in the National League somewhat for the Oakland pitchers if they came here because of times you have to pinch hit in the 6, 7, 8th innings due to situations with men on base and needing runs when the pitching spot comes up in the lineup.

While I would love 2 young proven pitchers as well, I just don’t see it happening. You have to go for one old guy and one young guy. Otherwise, the entire farm system would be depleted by going for two young proven starters.

Also, the marketing ploy can not be underestimated. If you add 2 more pitchers, you are adding 2 more multi million dollar salaries. If those guys were Haren & Blanton, they would not sell tickets the way Glavine and Haren or Glavine and Blanton would. That is important because the owners are cheap after all and you can sell it more to them if they know Glavine is going to increase attendance and money revenue and essentially pay back his salary that way. This makes it easier to go out and pay a centerfielder.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, what do you have against win shares? Do you think The Hardball Times adjusted them so that Mike Cameron will look better or something?

Do the research. It is useful.

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

BTW, since I do not have a horse in the race, here are my playoff predictions (or wishes, more correctly stated):

Indians over the Yankees Angels over the Red Sox

Rockies over the Phillies D’backs over the Cubbies

Indians over the Angels Rockies over the D’Backs

Rockies are the World Champions!

(if it can’t be in Atlanta, gotta keep it out west!)

By MELO

October 5, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

Let him go, he’s too old!!

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

Payne: You’re right, I was looking at something else, and now I don’t know what. But as far as Cameron being better than Winn… here is what their totals looked like. Winn had a better OBP, Better Slugging, Better Average. He also struck out less.

Player  G   AB  R  H   2B 3B HR RBI BB SO   OBP  SLG  AVG 
Winn    155 593 73 178 42  1 14  65 44 85  .353 .445 .300
Cameron 151 571 88 138 33  6 21  78 67 160 .328 .431 .242

By cmon gimme a break

October 5, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

Shaun in typical nerd fashion you miss the forest for the trees.

Winn is much better than Cameron.

“win share” are misleading since Winn played for a much crappier team than Cameron. Winn’s contributions are effectively discounted.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

“Insider info” on Hampton’s health? I talked to him about every other day in the last two weeks of the season, talked to him after each of his several bullpens in that stretch, in which he usually felt “OK, got great.” Talked to him a week ago about pitching in winter ball, which he planned to do but still didn’t know where.

Braves know about as much as Hampton and I do: That it’s too early to know if he’ll be able to pitch. We’re not gonna know at least until he pitches several weeks in winter ball, and probably not until spring training if he gets through that winter-ball part OK.

By Stinky

October 5, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

War. What is it good for?

By KC

October 5, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

bravesfan: “The Braves, while disputing industry talk that they are cutting payroll, are parting with free-agent center fielder Andruw Jones and appear a longshot to keep Teixeira long-term.”

bravesfan, I don’t think the Braves are a “longshot” by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, the Braves letting Andruw walk could serve as further indication that they’re serious about trying to keep Tex.

If you’re planning to make a competitive offer to Tex, it’s just not practical to offer AJ the 15-20 mill per season he’ll seek.

Andruw isn’t walking because the Braves are cash-strapped.

Andruw is being allowed to walk away because it simply doesn’t make sense to offer a 5-plus year deal at 15-20 mill per season to a guy that’s already showing wear and tear at 30, and just hit .222… when we’ve got hot CF prospect in the pipeline, and have a more valuable player (Tex) we’ll need to try and re-sign soon.

Letting Andruw walk this time around just made sense. And it is no way a harbinger of things to come with Tex.

By nolzfaninbamacountry

October 5, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

As usual DOB great article….

Just got off work & saw the article…I was at the game at the Ted on Memorial Day weekend 5 years ago when Glavine made his debut against the Braves…The booing/shelling that I witnessed (Of which I was a VOCAL participant) was something I have never seen.

5 years ago, I would say that we should NEVER EVER bring Glavine back. But time tends to heal old wounds. I think that if we can get Glavine for 10 mill, we should. There is obviously something to the A’s deal, too many other outlets have mentioned it as well…….

Cameron in center will be a better offensive replacement than 6-4-3, I’m sorry, I meant Andruw Jones was the last couple years. I said in a post earlier in the year, that all signs are pointing to the end of an era in 08, Cox, C. Jones, Smoltzie, possibly even Scheurholz himself. This could also be the last chance for Glavine as well.

The way the Mets imploded at the end of the year will have far reaching consequences for the Mets organization. Much like we did in the world series when we had the Yankees up 2-0, and blew a huge lead…..We haven’t been to the world series since………

We have an outstanding balance of young & old, bringing back Glavine will only be positive for all Braves pitchers with his leadership

By Stinky

October 5, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

War. What is it good for?

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: I get your drift. But the numbers you put out give so much optimism I have to post the sobbering note just so I don’t drop the mug of beer.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, Cameron played roughly half his games in probably the most extreme pitchers park in baseball while Winn played roughly half in a pretty neutral park.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

cmon gimme a break, team wins don’t affect an individual’s win shares; it’s the other way around.

By cmon gimme a break

October 5, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

One of the fundamental underpinnings of “win shares” is this assumption:

The difference between the number of wins by a team and the number of losses is generally attributable to the difference between that team’s runs scored and runs allowed. Also known as the Run Differential. In other words, teams win games by outscoring the other team. Over a full season, the teams with the most wins are those that have achieved the greatest total differential between runs scored and runs allowed.

Obviously, this does not always hold true and a very good counterexample is the 2007 Arizona Diamondbacks.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

Sizemore is the man. Abreu is a bad fielder. Kenny Lofton is tearing this series up. Goofed on that Pettite pickoff though but alot of people goof up with Pettite pickoffs.

By chbeyer

October 5, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

AN AGING GLAVIN IS NOT THE ANSWER. The Braves need to be looking at 2008 but more importantly beyond. Although Smoltz had a stellar year in 07, he is getting older and will be more susceptible to injury. What is needed is a couple of young studs in the rotation that can help build for the future along with budding superstars Francouer, McCann and the other young talent. Glavine had a signifcant dropoff at the end of the season. Lets hope Braves management does not give in to the sentimental reasons to sign Glavine.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

Greg O, Braves did talk to Francoeur last year about a long-term contract, at same time they did McCann. They couldn’t agree with Frenchy about his worth, obviously. But that didn’t sour them at all on approaching him again, perhaps this winter or spring, you never know. But I do see him eventually signing a multi-year deal to stay here, well before he gets to free agency.

He’s not even to arbitration yet.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

cmon gimme a break, doesn’t always hold true but it usually holds true. Also, if a player does all the right things and his teams doesn’t win, shouldn’t we give that players credit? It would be kind of useless to evaluate a player and punish a player because they were drafted by a sorry organization even though that player does all the right things or more right things than other players on better teams.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Did Mike Cameron strike out 160 times?!?!?!? Chrissakes. That’s horrible. He is not good enough to get away with striking out that much. He’s really not. It’s one thing to say that’s cool when you are talking about Ryan Howard but it’s quite another when a mediocre player is striking out like he is a 50 home run hitting slugger.

By Mike Hampton's Mistress

October 5, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

I know Mike the best of all. Let me tell you - hamptybear is rearing to go. His performance will be solid and he can last well into extra innings. Braves fans will be quite satisfied.

By Robert

October 5, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

His season ending debacle aside, Glavine can still pitch, and pitch well. So that’s not the issue

The problem with signing him, as I see it, is philosophical. You’re bringing back a figure associated with the past, and talk about how he wants to end his career with JS and company.

In the end, it’s a mechanism and mindset that allows for Braves fans to delude themselves into thinking it’s 1995 again.

Oh how glorious it was. Which will not only grossly overstate how glorious it really was, but will do nothing to rectify the reasons it’s nowhere near glorious these days, even if it draws attention away from the stark reality

It’s not 1995. It’s not even 2003. And this franchise needs to move on

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Win Shares? What do I have against them?

First off, I don’t expect a grand conspiracy against the player by HardBallTimes. Winn played for a last place team, therefore his shares of those few wins the team actually got add up to be less than the shares of Cameron, who played for a contender.
Secondly, the Win Share stat has multiple versions of calculation. All versions have a large amount of arbitrary values included in them, lots of guessing and estimating to get a result. This creates a level of discrepancy that is quite large.

The stat just isn’t that good, in my opinion, of getting an accurate reading on the skill of a player. And in the off season, you want to know the skill of the player because the skill is what you are going to acquire. How much he contributes once you acquire him can vary greatly. For instance, Redman had more Win Shares than Hampton this season, would you tell me Redman is a better, more skilled pitcher than Hampton, and therefore we should make a move to acquire him for next season in place of Hampton? I’m not pleased with Hampton on the bench, but when he is actually on the mound he is a better pitcher than Mark �the Tee� Redman, no matter how many win shares each one has.

By Wayne in Utah

October 5, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

Stinky

Absolutely nothin’!

By N8

October 5, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

Nice job DOB. Quick and to the point. Not to mention, I agree with you on all counts, regarding Glavine being signed or moving on quickly, the difference between Glavine and James and going after a young, potential Ace like Haren.

On a side note. I haven’t noticed anybody giving me props for “calling” the Indians losing by 1 run the next day. Should’ve “saved” some runs for today. I guess it’s only the 7th inning, so things could change, but that was about as predictable as the sun coming up in the East.

By cmon gimme a break

October 5, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

Bottom line is that “win share” is an amateurish, oversimplified, ad hoc attempt to make a statistical adjustment to quantify an individual’s contrubution (to what exactly - and that is part of the problem).

This is best done using true multivariate statistical models.

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

Check your facts on that one, DOB. I think the Braves offered Frenchy a raise (something like $450K for one year), but not a longterm deal similar to McCann’s. For some reason, Frenchy declined and was assigned a lower salary. If I’m wrong, apologies… but I don’t think we made a longterm offer to Frenchy last year.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

If Glavin is signed and Mike Hampton returns next year, how many times will we have to hear “It’s Back To The Future” from the talking heads on ESPN?

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, problem with that view is that Cameron actually did do enough in his non-strikeout at bats to help his team. Check out his away OBP. Check out his home OBP compared to the average OBP at Petco. He didn’t make outs that often.

By D-rock

October 5, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

wow, glavine and hampton and haren! That reminds me of the glory days. The bullpen and offense will be great. It’s time for john s. to work more of his magic.

By Robert

October 5, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

“And while I�m tossing stuff out there, how� bout the Braves� supposed reasoning for not signing Andruw, part of which was that they didn�t believe Boras or Andruw would consider a one-year deal based on Boras� quotes in my story?”

Now, for the real reason you dont make the said offer. It’s because if you do, you turn Andruw off - intended or not - which would make it harder to get done even if in fact it becomes his only option. (which isnt far-fetched at all, given how ludicrous Boras’ stance and asking price are)

By the way, nice attempt at flattering yourself. I think the Braves organization has some serious issues, but I dont think they are yet at the stage where they get their insdie information from a hack writer who basically only prints what they put in his mouth to begin with

By KC

October 5, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123: “ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO TRADE EDGAR RENTERIA FOR PITCHING HAS LOST THEIR MIND”

ppaddy, Renteria has an 11 million dollar option for 2009 that the Braves are unlikely to exercise. Not with Escobar already here, and Lillibridge at AAA.

There just isn’t a large enough gap between Renteria and Escobar to pay your starting Shortstop 11 million instead of 350k.

Given the fact that the Braves would likely not keep him beyond this year… now’s the time to trade him. If Escobar weren’t already a quality player, they wouldn’t do it. But as things stand, it makes sense.

HOWEVER, the Braves won’t trade Renteria just to get rid of him or to make room for Escobar. If no one offers something the Braves feel is a fair return for Renteria… they’ll probably keep him.

IF Renteria could bring a quality center-fielder or (as part of a package deal) a quality starter, then think of it this way:

If Renteria weren’t already a Brave… let’s say he had this great 2007 season in another uniform, but we had a chance to get Renteria for 2008…

Which should the Braves choose: Renteria, a quality center-fielder, or a quality starter?

Given that we already have Escobar, I think we’d have to go with a CF or a starter. That’s why I’d deal him if we can get commensurate value in return.

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

Before you jump me, DOB, I think I just put words in your mouth. You didn’t say the Braves offered Jeff a deal - you just said they talked about it.

My mistake.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

10Paul, I think Redman actually had less win shares for the Braves than Hampton did this year. I think his win shares for the Braves were negative. That is how horrible the Redman experiment was. LOL! THat guy sucked! Not a good sign when the guy who has sat on the bench for two years is in far better shape than the guy pitching.

N8, haven’t talked to ya in a while? What’s up? How many seasons of Madden have you gone through already?

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Here comes JOBA!

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Payne: Fine, mr. Mediocrity played at Petco. So here are the road splits for each. Now, these include Winn at Petco, but not Cameron at Petco… you know, the most Extreme Pitchers park in the universe… By the way, the summary is, Winn was better.

Player  G  AB  R  H  2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP  SLG  AVG
Cameron 71 283 45 72 18 2  11 36  34 78 9  3 .341 .449 .254
Winn    78 301 37 88 21 0  10 38  26 41 13 2 .356 .462 .292

By KC

October 5, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

chbeyer:

No one’s disagreeing with you on the need for good young starters. However, why are you assuming that’s it’s an either/or situation?

The Braves can sign Glavine AND pusue a younger starter. Glavine is going to take coughing up a little cash. Trading for a younger quality starter - IF there’s one available - will require giving up a lot of talent, but probably not much cash. They can do both.

If a younger quality starter becomes available on the trade market… don’t think for a second the Braves wouldn’t pursue him if they had already inked Glavine.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Steamboat, we don’t report everything at the time it happens, because we don’t hear a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff until down the line.

I asked John S. directly at the Andruw press conference, whether they’d talk to Frenchy about a long-term contract. I’d been told several times, last spring and since then, that Braves had been interested in doing a deal with Francoeur at same time as McCann, but Frenchy and/or his rep didn’t like the figures.

Schuerholz said last week when I asked, that yes, the Braves had discussed a long-term deal for Francoeur, and probably would continue to consider one.

Since the two sides were so far apart last spring, Braves decided to wait, which is normal in a situation like this. McCann is very much the exception, and his contract was potentially friendly to Braves if McCann has two of three big years within that deal.

And Francoeur probably declined to accept their one-year offer for same reason he didn’t for multi-year: He and/or his agent didn’t like the offer, didn’t think it was enough.

So Braves unilaterally renewed him last spring, which they can do again this spring if he doesn’t like what they offer. He’s got no leverage right now.

But Braves really love the guy, both as a player and a person, and I believe he’ll be here long-term, really do.

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

Crap.. Those averages that were cutoff:
Winn .292
Cameron .254

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, I understand your criticism of win shares, I really do. I don’t know if arbitrary is the right word because the estimates in win shares don’t come from nowhere. I do think win shares is a little more reliable than you give it credit for but I do understand your points.

As far as the Redman-Hampton situation, what statistical evaluation would have considered Hampton more valuable in 2007? Obviously he wasn’t. But I’ve never advocated stats alone over common sense. This is one of most unfair criticisms I get on this blog, that I only rely on stats. Yes, I start with stats but I also realize that stats often need to be combined with common sense for them to tell us anything.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

Bugging Boog??? Attack of the Killer Bees? The Swarm? nope, they are “Zu Zu Flies”

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you said

Yes, I start with stats but I also realize that stats often need to be combined with common sense for them to tell us anything.

You have just confirmed to me that you do not work for the government.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, Winn wasn’t significantly better. Also, Winn is NOT regarded as equal to Cameron defensively. Plus again, the Braves wouldn’t have to give up salary plus players to get Cameron. Because of all this, I’d take Cameron. Of course, if they work out a trade with the Giants for a pitcher plus Winn, I’d be fine with that, too.

One thing that Win Shares takes into account that is problematic in this analysis that I overlooked is Winn’s defensive position. He losses offensive value in a corner outfield slot but he would play center in Atlanta.

I just think it’d be better to just pay for Cameron rather than give up players and that pay for Winn, that’s my whole argument…unless the Braves work out a trade for a pitcher and Winn.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

Bug Bowl in Cleveland.

Joba Chamberlain is being attacked right now by a swarm of Georgia Tech women.

Either that or The Savannah Guy’s little buddy The Fly is having a freaking orgy right now on Joba Chamberlain’s head.

Once the Fly on the Wall, now he is the Fly on Joba.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville, I just don’t accept stats arbitrarily, as some of you do. Some of you just accept that things like RBI and strikeout total necessarily tell us how productive a player is. Common sense tells us that’s not the case.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

A swarm of locusts. God is getting the Yankees back for all those years they sold their soul to the devil.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this

People say Abreu does not play hard or have enough hustle, fire, grit, desire, heart what have you but he has hustled hard twice tonight and beat out two infield hits.

By Lew

October 5, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

Wayne In Utah-Say it again.

Now that the Pirates have shaken up their organization yet again (for about the tenth time in 15 years), I wonder if picking up either Gorzelany or Snell would be a possibility. They might be had for less of an investment than the A’s pitchers. Then again, maybe not. It’s a possibility, though.

By Lew

October 5, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun- Maybe you’d better be careful-Common sense might require original thought.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

everyone will choose to remember arod striking out and call him a choker but conveniently forget jeter struck out in the ninth as well.

great hustle by abreu tonight. a stolen base in the ninth after hustling out an infield single.

By Steve

October 5, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

DOB, glad you’re liking Springsteen’s “Magic”. I think you’ll like it even more as you have a chance to live with it for awhile. It’s possibly the most melodic album he’s done in over 30 years imo. Also, rumor has it that Springsteen and Brendan O’Brien recorded a full 2nd album’s worth of great material during the sessions, and that this 2nd album may be released in the spring if the powers that be (Springsteen) give the go-ahead.

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

DOB, well, I already “retracted” my statement, but if that’s not enough… let me say the explanation you provided about Frenchy is certainly “news” to me. I had no idea that a longterm deal had been discussed. Again, sorry for jumping the gun.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

Fausto Carmona is NASTY! So are the lefty/righty Rafaels for the Indians.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this

Steamboat, no problem. I think people assumed there was some sort of animosity between Braves and Francoeur when McCann signed his deal, and then especially when Francoeur had his contract renewed. It’s really not a big deal.

This stuff happens all the time in zero-to-3 guys, the clubs taking advantage of the only time when they have the hammer in terms of salary. It’s not like the player is going to try to get even or something by not taking the next offer they present, if it’s fair.

By the same token, team isn’t going to hold it against him when he turned down their offer of a minimal raise and they had to renew him. Guys get renewed, plenty of very good ones do….

Braveheart, Carmona’s one of the five best pitchers in the AL, I think. He’s also one of the guys the Braves faced in that stretch against AL studs, after they got Santana in Cleveland. They faced Sabathia and Carmona (and Silva) on that same two-city trip.

Then, of course, they faced more aces when they played Boston and Detroit and got humiliated.

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

Gene, no, I don’t think Lillibridge could be a candidate for the opening day CF job. Not without any major league experience at any position and no minor league experience in the outfield. He hasn’t played outfield since playing center as a freshman in college (2003).

Little different than playing center in the majors; not that he couldn’t do it, but I’d be absolutely shocked if he was considered for the opening day start job with such little experience in the high minors and such little outfield experience, period.

By N8

October 5, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

I just started my 3nd season of Madden.

Flew through the first one just for fun, but now am working on trying to make it “realistic”.

When my Chiefs were 0-2 and SUCKING, I dumped them down to nothing, so it would be hard. Then they had to go win 2 in a row, and mess me up. LOL!

So I’ve decided that no matter what happens in the next few weeks, I’m gonna just leave it alone, and just play.

Still never got through a full season on MLB 07 The Show, either.

No time to play. Too much work. Thus the minimal blogging as of late.

But work should slow down with all the fall sports in my area coming to a close. So let the Hot Stove begin….

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this

Carmona was breaking bats all over the place tonight. Did you see when Abreu came up and did not realize his bat had been broken in the previous at bat and he tapped it off home plate and the bat fell apart? Carmona is just filthy. DOB, you’re right, the Braves really did go throw a buzzsaw back during that stretch this summer with all those aces. I just didn’t think Carmona was this sick. I just remember him being the failed closer guy after Wickman was traded and presumed he had might have had a good season but he wasn’t that good. That dude is throwing cannonballs at their bats. I like the way this Rafael Perez looks when he is pitching. He reminds me of how Snoop Dogg or Jalen Rose (back in his Fab Five days) would have looked pitching with their lanky long limbed frames. That probably made no sense to anyone except me.

By brian

October 5, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

DOB - to look into your crystal ball, who do you think Haren or Blanton would cost us? I assume we won’t get off as easy as we did with Hudson.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I get the idea of what you are saying about Cameron and still managing whatever OBP he got despite 160 strikeouts. However, it reminds me of the time when I was a pitcher in college and I had hit a batter or two, walked a few guys, threw a wild pitch or two and the catcher eventually got tired of it, ran out to the mound and said simply “You don’t throw hard enough to be this wild. Throw some effing strikes.” Then he ran back behind the plate.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

Okay guys, Do you think the Pirates would be interested in another first baseman? I’m sure the Braves would give up Thorman for another one of the Bucco’s prospects… :-)

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Tonight’s game is a classic National League type pitcher’s duel. Love it.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

N8, your 8:59 is why we love ya. He even sarcastically gets perturbed about his Chiefs winning two games in a row. I love it. That’s great! LOL!

I used to love the days in college when I would play entire seasons of Madden in one day. Those were the days.

Why does every single Yankees and Red Sox game take 6 hours to complete?

By Shamus Thacker

October 5, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

MIKE HAMPTON??

Did I miss something? Has he been fitted with a prosthetic arm?

The chances of MH making it through Winter League without significant injury, are equal to those of Paris Hilton becoming an arc-welding nun…

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this

Brian, I think Haren would require significantly more than Blanton, but I don’t know that A’s will trade either this year. I’m told that this winter or next, it’s a move Beane will probably make, to restock with young, top prospects or young, affordable major league players. Only way to do that is to trade one of the young, affordable, quality arms he has. Haren, with that contract, is extremely attractive and will get them three top prospects and/or young players, you just watch.

He’ll look at guys like Lillibridge, Kelly J., maybe Jo-Jo, and Escobar (but he’s really not available, from what I’m told), Schafer (can’t see them trading their future CF), B. Jones (also not available, barring some huge deal)

Figure it’d take three such players/prospects to get Haren, maybe two good ones to get Blanton. But that’s just guessing, really.

By Tyler

October 5, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Harden could probably be had from the A’s, and my guess is that Haren is staying put. Harden could be had for Renteria most likely. Maybe Prado, Thorman and Villareal? Maybe sign Glavine, but if not that’s okay.

Then we trade for Randy Winn. If Renteria is not traded he would be the obvious choice. A rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Harden, Glavine/Hampton, Reyes/Bennett. Place Winn in CF and put Escobar at leadoff and you have a team!

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I don’t think anyone throws hard enough to be wild. I think OBP and strikeouts are a little different than that situation.

As I say often, a hitter can strike out 200 times but if he has 650 plate appearances, he can still help his team a great deal. It’s not necessarily a matter of how much power the hitter has or how fast he is or anything like that. It’s mostly about the fact that those 450 non-K plate appearances are plenty to get on base enough times to help the team.

By Mr. Fly (Sleuth Reporter)

October 5, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wallace, I’ll have you know that I had nothing to do with those lowly swarming Zu Zu Flies. I’m a reporter not an interrupter. How crass of those little bugs with wings. Shouldn’t even be called flies. Zu Zu Trolls…

By David O'Brien

October 5, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

By the way, speaking of Pittsburgh and Boston: Braves are tentatively scheduled to open at home in 2008, against the Pirates.

And they’re NOT scheduled to play Boston, home or road, the “natural rivalry” put on hold for a year.

Braves interleague games are (again, tentative) at Anaheim, Texas and Toronto, and home against Seattle (Ichiro does Atlanta) and Oakland.

By Bravesaregreat

October 5, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Gosh it seems to me that the only reason anyone wants Glavine is so he can be one more year with Cox, Smoltz and Chipper. Hes not a great pitcher anymore and that excuse he needs to retire in a braves uniform is lame. He needs to retire period. I wont walk across the street to see him pitch. Hes not any good any more. This team has gone young and they are fab. Now the pitching needs to improve and you dont do that by sending out a 41, 42, 2 years on DL, Hudson and Cant get past the 4th inning James. Come on people. If we have the money then sign some pitching that can pull 16 or more games. Forget the has beens and move on. The braves have never and I repeat never brought back a player who did us any good. Remember Byrd, brought him back and he went on DL, never did pitch for us. Waist of money.

We need to stick with Smoltz and Hudson and sign two pitchers. The 5th can be Hampton. If he blows out again then James or someone. NOT GLAVINE. I seem to remember he let the door hit him on the but on the way out. He is no longer a braves fan favorite.

By Tdub

October 5, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

“What’s bugging Joba Chamberlain? Plenty, as the Indians tied Game 2 of the ALDS in the eighth inning on a wild pitch amid swarming gnats and won 2-1 in 11 innings on Travis Hafner’s single.” Swarming gnats? More like locusts. You know why? Even God hates the Yankees.

By dabigbrave

October 5, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

DOB: What is all the discussion about? Bringing Tom Glavine back for $10 mil or less is a no-brainer, with him this year, we win the division. It should leave enough money to trade for Blanton at least, maybe not Haren, but who knows. Andruw will be missed defensively, but his bat was all but gone this year and it will be interesting to see if anyone pays Boras kind of money for him. Clearly, John S. has decided that he can do better or at least as well for the money. Get Glavine, buy or trade for another starter, find a replacement for Andruw and next year Braves are back in the post season. Complaints about Chipper are ridiculous, he just missed the batting title and made a little noise for MVP, had one of his best years ever on defense, still plenty of fight left in him and Braves are lucky to have him at 3rd base. With Frenchy and McCann, Texieriea and an improved starting rotation, I fully expect to be watching the Braves at this time next year in the NLDS.

By BravesRule

October 5, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

DOB! Just wondering what the chances are that the Braves keep Dotel? We will be getting rid of Bob Wickman’s salary this year…will that make room for Dotel to stay for a full season? He was pretty lights out when he wasn’t on the DL

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

what statistical evaluation would have considered Hampton more valuable in 2007

Payne, that’s where the difference is, I’m not looking to see how valuable they were in 2007, I’m looking to see their skill level and how well it will work in 2008.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, that’s where common sense comes in. It’s common sense that Hampton was injured and therefore useless. Redman was horrible but more useful than Hampton in 2007. That’s why you obviously need to look at more things besides 2007 stats. You have to look at career stats, type of injury, how often a player is injured, age…all these things tell us more than stats alone. But notice stats are a key part of evaluating players, as I think you would agree. I think that’s the common misconception on here, that I rely solely on stats. But it’s just flat out wrong and people are just ignorant if they think that of me. They just don’t read my posts and are clueless as to what I’m saying. Not saying that’s you, but that’s definitely the impression I get from some that aren’t very in tune to what I try to convey.

By Bearcat

October 5, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

Offer Tom Glavine what he is worth @$5M a year. He is 42 next year and he might go 11-10 as he is aging and not what he thinks he is worth. Do you want him to make more than Chuck James and finish with no better record? The smartest thing the Braves ever did was tell Scott Boras to take your overpriced players elsewhere. They are not worth half the price he is trying to pitch. Andruw Jones defense is worth 4.7 million but truely his offense should not be more valued than the major league minimum especially when you have a batting cage at home. He needs to spend more time in the cage and sell some of his cars instead of just having the GLOWHEAD about his IRON in the yard. Go after some younger arms at a better price especially since Mike “I’ll give some of it back” Hampton did not work out at age 35. Is the 42 year old mediocre Glavine your answer? He might be at $5 million a year and just think was he worth it when he gives you a 11-10 year? GO BRAVES but please spend your money wisely from now on.

By Mr Zu Zu

October 5, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

A police officer was busy writing a parking ticket when a fly began buzzing his head. He swatted at the pest repeatedly by the crafty insect deftly avoided his clumsy attempts.

A young shoeshine boy was watching the event with curiosity.

The policeman was becoming even more agitated as many of the pesky insects began swarming around his sweaty brow. “Get away from me you dang flies” he shouted.

The young shoeshine boy walked up to the policeman and said, “Hey mister, those are Zu Zu flies.”

The officer looked a bit puzzled, eyed the lad and said, Zu Zu flies, what are they.?

The youngster explained,”Well sir, Zu Zu flies always gather around a horse’s a$$.”

The officer roared, “Boy, are you calling me a horse’s a$$?!!!”

The youngster looked up shyly and said, “No sir, not me, but you can’t fool those Zu Zu flies”.

By TennesseePaul

October 5, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

That kid is going to get so much @ss..

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, to take it back to Cameron vs. Winn. If we look at their career numbers, Winn has a slight edge in OBP (.345-.341) while Cameron has a pretty significant edge in SLG (.445-.424).

Cameron has stolen 272 bases and has been caught 74 times while Winn has 168 steals and was caught 80 times.

Cameron is regarded as a better fielder.

Winn is younger by only a year.

Over the last several seasons, looks like Winn has played more games but Cameron has played fewer than 140 games only once since ‘97. Winn may be a better bet to stay healthy but it’s not obvious that Cameron is going to be a particularly injury-prone player.

Given all of that, it’s pretty darn close. I would say if the Braves could make a trade with the Giants for a pitcher, maybe they should try to get Winn if that will enhance the trade. If Winn is the key player in a trade where the Braves wouldn’t get much else and would have to give up players, they may as well go with Cameron so they don’t have to give up anything but salary.

Okay, that’s my comprehensive analysis of the situation. Hopefully we can find some common ground here.

By Bearcat

October 5, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

As for my centerfielder since AJ is gone, how can you go wrong with Yunel” I WILL HUSTLE & GIVE YOU MY BEST” Escobar? He will have more assists than the 30 year old AJ from CF and believe me that man can perform anywhere you put him especially with that GOLDEN ARM. You don’t need to go after another centerfielder such as Rowan or Cameron(don’t be DUMB). Put Jeff Francoeur in CF and consider Kelly Johnson back in the outfield. The Braves would have made the playoffs this year with Francoeur Diaz and Johnson in the outfield this past year. Work from within and PAY for pitching and not Tom “OVER THE HILL” Glavine at age 42. Get smart and go after YOUTH. GO BRAVES in 2008.

By ncscoots

October 5, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

The brick wall does not succumb. Another day, another blog, and the eternal Chinese water torture of Shaun-on-Mike-Cameron continues, LOL. My God, why am I not surprised?

What part of 50 extra points of BA and half the K for Winn vs. Cameron does not compute? Win shares? WIN SHARES?!? Holy Cornelia.

Can you really think that two mid-level prospects (who won’t see a day of play in 2008) and Mike Cameron add up to a better contribution than Randy Winn, or any of a dozen other OF, for that matter? We border on the obtuse, if that be the case. Or you are wedded to a position, pledged to dogmatic defense thereof.

And I am the guilty party here, for not adhering to my pledge of speaking no more on the matter. Give Shaun this: just when I think I’m out, he pulls me back in.

Maybe I’ll sick Andy Garcia on him.

By N8

October 5, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

what a frickin WEIRD way to lose a ballgame.

Anybody but the Yankees and I’d feel bad for them. But one has to admit, that’s FUNNY.

Guess I spoke too soon, and didn’t count mother nature into the equation for the Indians.

My bad.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

I don�t think anyone throws hard enough to be wild.

Shaun, his point was to stop pitching to the scouts standing behind the catcher with their radar guns and start throwing to the catcher’s mitt. It’s cute and tolerable and all when you are developing and you throw 95 and you are wild but no so cute and tolerable when you are throwing in the 80s. In other games instead of saying you don’t throw hard enough to be this wild, he would come out and tell me I threw plenty hard enough, you’ve proven that, now take a few miles off and let the movement do the work for ya. It was just part of the psychology games my coach would have upperclassmen catchers, first baseman, and shortstops play with struggling underclassman pitchers.

Besides if you throw hard enough that you get high strikeout totals to go with your walk totals and you have a respectable k/bb ratio, isn’t it true that you can throw hard enough to be mildly wild, especially if you don’t give up alot of hits? This is even more true at lower levels like high school or college or if you are AJ Burnett and throwing a no hitter in the majors.

But as to Cameron, the same holds true. You’re assuming the best he can be is what he is. At this point of his career it is hard to argue with that. But really did the teams get much more than mediocre slugging from him at the expense of a higher AVG and higher OBP that he was capable of because he was swinging so hard all the time?

Just as a pitcher needs to take a little off and stop overthrowing (because he does not really throw that hard) so he can throw more strikes, a hitter like Cameron might want to take a little off his swing and stop overswinging (because he is not a great slugger) so that he can make more contact and get on base more. This would have made more sense for Cameron because he has a good eye, stole bases and was a centerfielder. Therefore a better OBP would have been better for him and his team since the slugging he was aiming for was not exactly great anyway - certainly not 156 strikeouts per 162 games played great.

By Mr. Fly (Sleuth Reporter)

October 5, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

Well, I just knew those Zu Zu’s would find the blog. What next, love bugs? Horse flies? Deer flies? Sheesh. Is there no common fly decency.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, there are major problems with only looking at batting average and K total and looking at only these things in 2007 for that matter. See my analysis on their whole career and looking at stats more vital to run creation, namely OBP and SLG.

See, this is what I mean. You people accuse me of being narrow-minded and only relying on stats. Yet, you rely on stats from one year that don’t necessarily tell us anything about run creation. People just want to disagree with me for the sake of disagreement instead of seeing the clear-cut evidence of the situation.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, Cameron has got on base at a good rate and slugged pretty well over the course of his career by doing what he’s done. Maybe he could be better, maybe he couldn’t. I’m not arguing that. He is what he is. But we know what he’s pretty much likely to do for the Braves. Saying he could be this and could be that is kind of a pointless exercise in my book, at least for our purposes. It’s kind of like saying Chipper Jones could be this or that if he would do this or that differently. Chipper is already a great player. And Cameron is a pretty good player. I understand your argument but maybe if Cameron changes something in his swing, maybe he becomes better but maybe he turns into a different and lesser player.

By Robert S

October 5, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

Now that I’m home from work I thought I’d put my two cents in. Glavine would be a good 3rd or 4th starter, and I don’t feel he’s going to rapidly deteriorate at 42 (read: Steve Carlton), so I can see 20-25 quality starts, and let’s face it folks - it’s better than the horrendous Redman/Davies/Reyes/etc. combo we had this past season. I believe he’s still got enough to give us at least a 5-7 win difference on the positive side in the standings, which would give the Braves 89-91 wins, not including that “young starter” the Braves may go after, be it one of the Oakland starters or Jon Garland or whomever.

I totally agree that Randy Winn would be a much better outfield choice than Mike Cameron, who is essentially a poor man’s Andruw (good defense, strikes out a lot, questionable plate discipline). Winn may not be highlight-reel material defensively, but he’s more than adequate, and offensively he’ll be solid if unspectacular. We’ve got plenty of fire power even if Winn doesn’t slam 30 homers. He gets on base and hits for average - good enough for me.

And let’s also not forget that Aaron Rowand might be still out there for the taking, too.

By KC

October 5, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

For Dan Haren, I would trade any position player or prospect other than Frenchy, McCann, Chipper, or Tex.

Yes, I’m convinced that Escobar will be a star. STILL… I would include him in a deal for Haren if that’s what it took.

The Red Sox gave up Hanley Ramirez to get Josh Beckett. Ramirez has become one of the most dynamic players in the game. Still, if you have World Series aspirations, NOTHING is more valuable than a true ace. Even knowing what I know now about Ramirez, I would make make that deal all over again if I’m the Red Sox GM.

With that in mind… if Escobar or B.Jones have to go in such a deal… so be it.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Robert S, not sure what you mean but Cameron’s OBP is pretty close to Winn’s and he has more power. So I’m not sure what you mean when you say Cameron has questionable plate discipline. High strikeout total doesn’t necessarily mean no plate discipline. I can sort of understand why it may seem like it but it doesn’t.

And Rowand should not be an option. Rowand isn’t likely to get much better and he’s probably going to get a four-year deal at around $10-11 million per. Why would you do that when you know he’s going to become something like what Johnny Damon has become somewhere in the middle of his contract, and you have a centerfield prospect that has a pretty good shot to become at least a solid major league player?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 5, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

Do the Angels still have the rally monkey?

By ncscoots

October 5, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

Yet, you rely on stats from one year that don�t necessarily tell us anything about run creation.

You know me better than that. And, frankly, I resent your implication.

Cameron’s mediocre skills have deteriorated; Winn’s have not. Winn is a better all-around player, especially offensively, and there is not enough defensive disparity in the two to make up the offensive difference.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar: Winn hits, Cameron doesn’t. You may think that there are measures by which Cameron makes up for this; there aren’t. In the end, baseball is still about throwing the ball, catching the ball, and hitting the ball. Both players can handle the first two, Cameron is woefully second in the race on the third.

And don’t EVER lump me in with people who give you grief just to do it. EVER!

By Fed Up

October 5, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

If I wanted to read the damned Shaun blog I would go read the damned Shaun blog — however, I’m forced to read the damned Shaun blog here, everyday damned day, 24/damned 7 — I’m done with it! Damned Shaun you should be paying the damned AJC for supplying you with a free platform with which to host the damned Shaun blog! Damned day in and damned day out! Never ending!

By The Cameron & Winn Show

October 5, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

We love all the attention but even we are tiring of the nit picking, parsing, bloviating, droning, posturing, blathering, microscopic over-interpretation and obtusness of it all. Once a subject has been kicked and prodded and turned upside down and inside out for hours on end, perhaps we could just move on? Nevermind…my bad. Go ahead and talk about anything. Free world. Boring sometimes, but free.

By Steamboat

October 5, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

KC, Escobar (and pieces) for Haren? In a heartbeat. Absolutely.

Escobar doesn’t have nearly the power (29 HR) or base-stealing ability (51 of 65)… and all at age 23… that Hanley does. If you can package Escobar for one of the best pitchers in the game, do it.

I don’t know why Oakland would trade good young pitching, but it seems the rumor is they might. We should do our best to take advantage of it.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I fully agree that at 34 years old, if some coach decided he was gonna change Mike Cameron and the way he goes about things, that coach should be shot. I would not even call it an exercise in futility. I would call it an exercise in stupidity. It won’t make him better. It would only make him worse so firmly entrenched is the way he goes about things. It was something he needed to be taught in his teens and early twenties. So I agree with you on that. Maybe he would have been better, maybe not. But it seemed like he has had a lot of tools to be a great fielding, good eye, good speed, stolen base guy who could have had a higher AVG, higher OBP and popped about 10-15 homers a year. It would have made him a top of the order hitter instead of the 6 or 7 hitter he has typically been. But at this time, the point is beyond moot. He is what he is and pretty decent for what he is. $8 mil decent?!?!? I ain’t too sure about that now. BUt if they can get him after they get two starting pitchers, then yeah he is fine enough to plug in at the bottom of the order and more than fine roaming center.

By The Cameron & Winn Show

October 5, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

But then, once statboy get’s all the stats out and the websites at hand and organized, we figure he just wants to stay on subject so he can keep digging out the dope. And digging and digging until there is no more to dig. Then what? Start recapping? We’re the topic dujour and our 15 minutes of fame ran out days ago. Good night and please, by all means carry on. Let us know how we did when it’s over. Maybe Monday or Tuesday.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

KC, the Red Sox have the resources to go after any shortstop that becomes available. They could afford to trade a player like Hanley Ramirez.

Plus Haren has a K/9 of 6.98. Beckett’s is at 8.5. Haren is a great pitcher and I would really try for him if he is available but he’s not quite Josh Beckett.

Plus Beckett was 25 when the Red Sox traded for him. Haren is 27.

I don’t think I’d give up a player like Escobar.

By Braveheart

October 5, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

Do the Angels still have the rally monkey?

Don’t remember if that was one of the tragic animal deaths JJS always reports on. I’m guessing he might still be alive. If he is AWOL or MIA or no longer with us, The Rally Flies had better watch out. The Rally Flies may go the way of the Rally Monkey.

By Shaun

October 5, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, not sure what you are looking at but Cameron can hit. Where is this notion coming from that Cameron can’t hit? His career OBP is just a tiny bit lower than Winn’s and his slugging is significantly better. And Cameron is only a year older. Oh, yeah, it comes from only taking into account hits in non-walk, non-HBP, non-sac plate appearances. Somehow that became the measure of success and failure.

By Shaun

October 6, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

This isn’t the 1890’s anymore. Batting average is not the best way to measure success and failure of a hitter.

I have to keep going because many of you believe contrary to the evidence—that Mike Cameron can’t hit. The evidence is clear on the subject if you would just pay attention to it with some open-mindedness.

By Joba

October 6, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

Well sir, Zu Zu flies always gather around a horse�s a$$.

Who the hell are you calling a horse’s a$$?!?!?!? You make Joba angry. Don’t make Joba angry. You won’t like Joba when Joba’s angry.

By Sherry L.

October 6, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

DOB - Great blog and one heck of an argument to bring Glavine back. How can anyone argue with your logic?? I have always been a Glavine fan and would love to see him in a Braves uniform for his last year or two!! But besides that, it would be great for the team. With a rotation like that, we could go to the World Series again!! (Ami I dreaming? - ha ha!!)

To all the boo-ers and nay-sayers: Get over it and get over yourselves. It is best for the team!!

COME HOME GLAVINE!! Atlanta has missed you!!!

By Steamboat

October 6, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

Shaun, yeah, that SS position has been a real strong point for Boston, what with Julio Lugo and Alex Gonzalez and all. They gave up a great prospect to get a great pitcher. And unlike Atlanta, they didn’t have Renteria and Lillibridge in reserve.

I can’t believe you’d take Escobar over Haren. That’s just ridiculous.

And is age not a factor in considering Cameron? Is not a down year by a 34-year-old a bad sign in the statistical world? When you’re considering him for a 2 or probably 3 year contract?

By Mr Zu Zu

October 6, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this

Would that be Joba the Nut?

By Fed Up

October 6, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Shaun Cameron can hit like Ted Williams on speed — We all believe that — now discussion over — so Get lost!!

By Disabled List

October 6, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

For The Very FIRST poster on this blog————Mike Hampton is Garbage!! He is a Fraud Bordering On A Thief. He Has “stolen” Money How Many Years Now??

If The Central Florida Con Artist had an ounce of integrity(Look It Up Mike) he would have donated 25 % of his salary this past year to charitable organizations.

Mike Hampton—makes Tony Soprano, Bugsy Siegel, and Al Capone look like Mother Teresa.

Mike, have you no sense of decency, no sense of right and wrong?? Al Kaline in 1974 turned down 100,000 from the Tigers because he said that was too much money—Even taking into account inflation Al Kaline is worth 500 Mike Hamptons.

Mike Hampton!!!!!! You—First Poster Are Insane, if you ever count on Michael Hampton to do anything besides cash very exhorbitant “WELFARE CHECKS”.

By Robert

October 6, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

“Joba Chamberlain is being attacked right now by a swarm of Georgia Tech women”

That may be the single funniest thing I have ever read on this blog

By submariner

October 6, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

As much as I love Glavine, I still think that what the Braves need is a harder throwing lefty like Johan Santana. And good on ‘em to let AJ walk. You don’t need to have a multi-million dollar player at every position in order to win. You just need a group of players who understand what their roles are. You talk about all of the hits/runs that Jones saved, but what about all of the RBI’s he left on the bags? And let’s not talk about this past season. He’s never been the clutch guy. So many times I’ve watched him in the box when we needed to pick up that run at second or third and I could predict him going down on a hard slider out of the strike zone. I’d much rather have a better balanced center fielder who is a contact hitter and who can get to most balls on “D”. Even though Glavine will eat up innings, we need a guy who can give us a good 1-2-3 punch come playoff time. Smoltz is getting old too, but he can still hump it up there when he needs it.

By Paul Hamilton

October 6, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

I know the Braves keep hinting that the payroll is going up, but they are going to have to go over 100m in payroll to get Glavine. Even when you subtract Andruws salary, with all the raises on this team you are sitting around 93 or 94 million. I’m sorry, but if we are hanging our playoff hopes on Glavine, the Braves are dumber than they look. By the time the season ends, he is completely out of gas. This has been an ongoing trend for awhile now. I would much rather see the Braves go after a young quality pitcher over bringing Glavine back. If I have to watch another Braves first round playoff fizzle…Smoltz was looking tired at the end of this season as well, so now we are going to add another over 40 pitcher to our roster. The Braves need to continue to look at the future of this club instead of lingering in the past.

By Joba

October 6, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

That’s it, Shocker ZuZu, I’m coming for you. Joba’s angry. Very angry. Joba is also angry with JJS. the journalist always says people with names like mine have monkey names or clown names but the ugandan journalist ignores a name like joba. what say you mr. smith about joba and the zuzu?

By Disabled List

October 6, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

Mike Hampton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you’re ever in the Denver area, check with a realtor to see if Michael’s “palace” outside of Denver is still on the market?? A friend of mine took me to see it a couple of years back and was able to walk through it. I commented at the time that only in America can a man benefit to this extent by sitting on his dead bottom while doing absolutely nothing because of a physical tendency to break down greater than that of a swallow in Juneau, Alaska in the dead of winter in the middle of a snowstorm that threatens to break all verifiable records going back 100 years.

Mike Hampton???? The only rotation he will ever see is that of his cuff.

By Shaun

October 6, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

Steamboat, I would take Escobar over Haren unless I knew Haren was going to be relatively cheap for a long time. Haren is going to get a lot of money very soon I’m pretty sure. And he’s older than Escobar.

Boston seems to be doing just fine. They have the best record in the AL with Lugo at short. They can go out and get superstars everywhere else to make up for a risk at short or a good glove at short.

Age is a factor, of course. I don’t think the Braves will offer Cameron more than two years. I don’t think there is any way they offer him a third year. Could be wrong but I don’t think they will. Body type and skill set goes along with age. And Cameron’s body type and skill set means he may be a decent player for at least a couple of more years.

By Norma Rae

October 6, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this

And for those who want the Lefty Union Apologist back in Atlanta, go back and check out tape of that “clutch” start against the Marlins in Tommy’s Swan Lake Dive. It was very enjoyable because of my distaste for the Mets, but anyone who thinks the soft tosing jimmy Hoffa Wannabe is going to add to a rptation must be crazy, and a year older!!!!!

A rotation with hampton and Glavine by definition means you still need a 4th and 5th starter.

Tommy, you have enough money, why don’t you do something decent in your old age and try to organize Central American migrant workers and those people with similiar deprived status. Now that would show me some real gutsy Union Organizing activity as opposed to getting a bunch of independent contractors together.

By Steamboat

October 6, 2007 12:50 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Boston is doing fine because they traded a SS for an ace - LOL and all that. The team with the SS finished in last place.

To those dumping on Hampton, I think the first MIL of his signing bonus went to charity, and that he has a pretty meaningful charitable organization, (mikehamptonpitchingin.org) that does some pretty good work… but I’m sure you do more… if not, maybe make a contribution.

By Edgar

October 6, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this

Im tired of hearing “this club need to look at the future instead of the past”. Here one thing: As fans do you want your team to make the Playoffs next year or sit around and think about the FUTURE,like we are the ROYALS or the DEVIL RAYS. A bunch of prospects that are not MAJOR LEAGUE ready YET arent getting your team to the World Series. We need Glavine,Hudson,Smoltz,Chipper,Tex,Renteria,etc.Those are the guys that are capable of taking this team to the Playoffs. Besides McCann,Frenchy,KJ, and maybe Escobar,no other young guyCONTRIBUTES anything to this team But INEXPERIENCE.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

October 6, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this

Man, all this bad vibe for Hampton… I do not begrudge him one bit for being rich.

Now Manny….. There is not enough mustard in Boston to cover that hotdog.

Look for one in his ear hole when the Angles return to LA….

By Alan Greenspan

October 6, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this

Always curious when I read these blogs. How many of you—and answer honestly—who are worried about Tom Glavine receiving another 13 million—how many of you have adequate health insurance, life insurance, are maxing out 401(k) investments, if older have you paid off your mortgage, have sufficient money put aside to RETIRE COMFORTABLY at 62(Tommy could have done that with one 13 million deal)——In Other Words would a reasonable man maybe think that some on this blog should be worried about themselves, their wives and their kids rather than punks like Tommy Glavine and the Curacao Fat Boy————Just asking you to consider that point.

You do know that Karl Marx said that religion was the opiate of the masses, well, Karl had it all wrong. Because sports are the opiate of the masses—well some of the masses—as people are diverted from the realization they may be working till they are 80 trying to supplement Social security and Medicare, BUT Heck it is a lot easier to worry about Tommy Glavine. P.T. Barnum was right.

By Alan Greenspan

October 6, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this

Sherry L, How’s your portfolio??? Think that Tommy gives a rat’s bottom if you or others on this blog will be checking out customers at Wal Mart at the age of 70??

So sad as to be pitiful!!!

By Paris Hilton

October 6, 2007 1:05 AM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville, Don’t think anybody is begruding Mike Hampton being rich. I do believe that most reasonable people would have liked to have seen him ACTUALLY EARN the last 60 million or so. An unreasonable request?????

Even I, Paris Hilton, has done as much as Mike Hampton to make most of my money—and I’ve spent far less time on the DL.

By Adam Smith

October 6, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this

So, Alan, yes you have a point but no one really wanted to see Ted Turner pitch and he could have been had cheap. There is so much money out there and the superstars want a share. Is it fair?

No, but someone always will have too much money because it is how they keep score. They feel guilty and donate it to some charity so their name is put on a plaque, trying to buy their way into heaven.

By Lew

October 6, 2007 1:15 AM | Link to this

Shaun-There you go again. Open mindedness requires original thought. Remember, you’re not real good with that. Said so yourself.

By /\/\/\/\Berigan/\/\/\/\

October 6, 2007 1:16 AM | Link to this

Mike Cameron will be 35 in January. In April, he hit .192. In July. 191. In September, when his team was fighting for the pennant? .139!!!! Lets sign him for 3 years! Hell, Andruw hit .207 in September….practically clutch in comparison…

By Adam Smith

October 6, 2007 1:33 AM | Link to this

Does anyone else remember the awful Jim Varney promotion the Braves had back in the 80s? Attendance averaged about 1500 a game. Fans with paper bags over their heads…. Giving away tickets to try to boost crowds?

Folks, the MLB Players Union busted the owners for collusion. Paying a set up man 5 million per year or a 41 year old lefty 10 million is a direct result of that.

For guys like George Stienbrenner, the 200 mill he has in payroll each year is lunch money. Bottom line, as long as the fans will pay to see them play, they will charge what the market will bear.

It is simple supply side economics. When the number of great baseball players exceed the demand, the price will go down, until then, suck it up and deal with it. Or learn how to throw a curve ball.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 6, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this

Manny being Manny. Is it just me or do the Red Sox and Indians look like the best teams in baseball let alone the AL.

The Yankees are once again showing their true colors. They are a good team but not great. They got back into things by beating subpar teams, which is what good teams should do. But, that team is so flawed. Their bulllpen sucks and anytime you have to rely on young players that much you are asking for trouble. I don’t want to hear how the bugs were bothering Chamberlin. Carmona had to deal with the same bugs and was straight dealing to the Yanks. Speaking of Carmona, his performance this year gives me great hope for Reyes. I don’t know how many of you saw him last year but he was bad. He was 10 times worse on average than Reyes was in his worst start. I remember a game at Boston where he just got shelled. It was one of the worst performances I had ever seen. Look at him now.

I think people who believe the Yankees will get Tex in 2009 may be wrong. I think they are looking at the wrong New York team. The Mets will be the big players for him. The Yanks may not be able to wait until then to get a 1B. Giambi won’t play there next year and unless they convert Damon they are in a lot of trouble.

Finally, I think the Braves getting Glavine will be a great deal because it will then allow them to actually get another starter via trade. They can plug one “pretty good” starter and one “decent” starter into the rotation. Otherwise, they will be forced to acquire a big time starter either via trade or free agency. I honestly believe a package of Reyes or James, Johnson or Lillibridge, and Diaz or Esquivel will net a good return. Early on it looks like the A’s and Giants may be the best bets. And, while I agree that Winn’s glove isn’t the greatest it is adequate and his bat is more than adequate. The Pirates are also a player but the question would be about McClouth. No way should Chris Duffy be apart of any deal. The Jays have a couple of decent pitchers but I fear the Braves would be giving up too much to get either one of them, who are shaky propositions. I know I will get some eye rolls but don’t count out the Devil Rays. I think they may listen to an offer for Kazmir. He is getting ever closer to free agency. Johnson, Reyes, and Esquivel would be quite the return. I also believe the Angels would listen to offers for Erwin Santana.

By Bravo Nam

October 6, 2007 2:21 AM | Link to this

Asinine and Unfair

The criticism of Chipper never seems to abate…I really don’t get it…it’s asinine, unfair and not accurate.

His individual stats and the team win/loss ratio when he plays speaks for itself…when he’s playing he makes everyone better…few hitters more feared than him.

If the criticism is because you don’t like him personally, say it and move on…if it’s coz of his recent tendencies towards injury, his personal production and impact on the team still monsters the impact of the great majority of MLB players who play an entire season.

By uga-brave

October 6, 2007 2:27 AM | Link to this

DOB,

read INTO THE WILD, great book but i thought he was borderline insane. he was no adventurer, had a death wish.

saw the FOO last night at the tabernacle, great show great band. everlong still has one of the best drum solos.

kudos to J.S. for not signing FRANCOEUR long term. HE IS NOT ARB ELIGIBLE PEOPLE. right now he could go either way, as for me i dont think he WILL EVER BE A STAR, weird swing AN ALUMINUM BAT SWING he lunges gets on his front foot way too often. J.S. learned a bad lesson when ENLGBERT, oh i mean B MAC our great defensive catcher showed up at spring training with a melted BUTTERFINGER on his jersey, show some frickin pride dude, move your body when a thrid strike is in the dirt.

By uga-brave

October 6, 2007 2:40 AM | Link to this

SERBOK,

count CHOOPULA, who would of thought every series would be 2-0.

what were the VEGAS odds that arz. or the rockies would be in the series. kinda proves absolutely nothing. at least colorado can BASH.

sign GLAVINE because he has mound presence, he will eat up INNINGS and and he is A WINNER. if hamp comes back he is a bonus.

IF LIBERTY MEDIA IS serious about winning, SIGN TEX NOW NO MATTER THE COST.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 6, 2007 3:20 AM | Link to this

Tom Glavine is a winner. Jeff Bennett is a major league starting pitcher. As a Braves fan , you have to ask yourself two questions : Do I want my team to win and am I a student of the game.

By Serbok

October 6, 2007 3:57 AM | Link to this

uga-brave I Totally agree with ya Bro! Now, lets see JF hit 35 H.R next yr and hit 301 ? lol I hope all is well with you? Excellent sports fan!

David O’Brien I want to thank you for another excellent “article”” You Sir, Are the penultimate Sports writer that I have ever had the pleasure of reading! Only reason I say that is ‘cuz it’s just a fact. I wish you would cover my Tampa Bay Buccaneers? LOL (Buc’s surprise the league by upsetting Indy!)

I totally agree Glavine is the right move! (that seemed to be your inference?)

By Serbok

October 6, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this

uga-brave Agree with ya totally on B-Mac! Too bad he is just a little older than Salty? Maybe things could have been reversed? Still dont C I2I on Jeff~ lol

By Scott

October 6, 2007 4:04 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones is not the best center fielder in baseball.
Chipper Jones came in second in the national league in batting average and had the highest OPS in the national league. On what planet do you consider that on the way down?
Yes, resign Glavine. Glavine at 9 million is a great bargain. Let him finish up his career here and be done with it.
If you can get Dan Haren, you trade your first born. He’s that good.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 6, 2007 4:08 AM | Link to this

Mike Hampton can still pitch , of that I am sure. The question is , can he stay healthy long enough to actually pitch ? Two big if’s , if Glavine sign’s and Hampton stays healthy , the Mets and Phillies are playing for the wild card in 2008. By the way , it’s my Birthday today. The A-hole is getting younger and better looking everyday. C’mon Dawgs , beat them Volunteers ! Peace out !

By uga-brave

October 6, 2007 4:11 AM | Link to this

hey guys there are at least 8 rightfielders better than him. if we are wiiling to trade rochy why not francoeur for pitching. santana would look great here.

By fastasballs

October 6, 2007 4:18 AM | Link to this

Great blog DOB, looks to be another intersting off season in Atlanta. I agree the Braves will sign Glavine & probably to an incentive laced deal. If the Braves had him this year they would have made the playoffs for sure.

I’m no great fan of Glavine, but for the money he’s a good deal. With him there barring any other big deals involving pitching the top three will be set & will leave Hampton, James, Jo Jo, Cormier & Bennett to fight out the last two spots. Hampton is assured of one if he is healthy & effective. Jo Jo & Bennett were very impressive the last few weeks. I seriously doubt James will ever amount to anything more than a 5th starter, which with the #’s he put up this year would be fantastic.

The Braves look to have some payroll flexibility. You have to remember Hampton & Edgar are off the books next year. Edgar could be traded this year & there would be more money now. The time to sign Tex is now, he won’t have an Andruw like walk year. Several key things to remember, he likes it in Atlanta & an extended deal with a back loaded contract should be very workable. In the next few years Smoltz & Chipper will retire freeing up a lot of money. Even adding Frenchy to a new contract isn’t going to break the bank.

The future of this team is bright with the guys here & a slew of prospects ready in 2008 & 2009, including some power arms down in A ball that showed a lot of promise this year. For the last time anyone that think the Braves are not sitting on a gold mine of position prospects are uninformed idiots. Every level is stacked & most positions are two & three deeep with probably major league talent spread over three levels.

Everyone that JS traded for Tex was going to be blocked for years by better guys. Look at the past trades that JS made. He gets the most from his prospects most of the time & manages to keep the best ones in the system most of the time. There isn’t many I would want back with the exception of Wainwright. JD Drew did produce a career year while he was here that led to the playoffs. How is the Marte/Renteria trade working out? Meyer & others for Hudson? Time will tell on the Tex deal & if they ink him long term Salty & Andrus can be perennial all stars & it will still be a good trade.

By 2010 the team is going to be made up a ton of youth. Lillibridge, Escobar, B. Jones, Schaefer, Heyward, Cody Johnson, Cambell & others. McCann & Frenchy will be the “elders” of the group. All of these guys will be cheap so there will be a ton of money for Tex & Peavy(hopefully) & tons of pitching.

The same people that a crying because the Braves “wronged Andruw” are the same ones throwing Hampton under the bus & I’d suspect would be doing to same to Andruw next year while he was eating up 18-20M a year. Andruw will forever be the best centerfielder IMO, but at the plate will always be a wasted talent because of his stubberness & poor preperation. It’s time for the two to part ways. I wish him the best playing elsewhere, however we all know his best days are behind him.

By Serbok

October 6, 2007 4:22 AM | Link to this

Braveheart You NEVER cease to Amaze me Dude!!!! Keep on Rockin in The Free world! Do the Angels still have the rally monkey?

Don�t remember if that was one of the tragic animal deaths JJS always reports on. I�m guessing he might still be alive. If he is AWOL or MIA or no longer with us, The Rally Flies had better watch out. The Rally Flies may go the way of the Rally Monkey.

By uga-brave

October 6, 2007 4:23 AM | Link to this

serbok,

finally speling your name right, time for the GWINETT COUNTY ALL stars to step up. HEY, i like both of them, but production is what it is.

dont care if they are ” home grown” all i know since they have been starters we have missed the playoffs.

By uga-brave

October 6, 2007 4:35 AM | Link to this

fastballs,

read many of your posts, you are very intelligent, but to say glav aint that good is mind numbing. he has presence, he knows how to win, total polar opposite from chuck n duck.

chuck has no sand whatsoever, dont think he ever will. \

HE BEGS TO GET OUT OF THE GAME.

By uga-brave

October 6, 2007 4:56 AM | Link to this

serbok,

worried about my dawgs tmmrw, won three straight in knoxville, but tmmrw. defines our season.

smoltz, hudson, glavine, nice start. no worrying about eating bulpen innings.

knowing how to be a pro is priceless,

i for one believe that jo jo is going to a star.

great cutter and a good fastball.

cant coach that. chuck n duck is what he is a 2 pitch pitcher with no heart. no slider, no curve and the most important no real desire to get better.

bobby said it when he came up, he gets people out, how i just dont understand.

By uga-brave

October 6, 2007 5:15 AM | Link to this

smoltz, hudson, glavine, and maybe hamp, plus jo jo, gives us a chance.

maybe to many leftys in a row, but i will take my chances.

just as long as cormier, carlyle, and DAVIES, thank you he aint here anymore are not in the equation, we will be fine.

our pen has never been better.

By ronp

October 6, 2007 5:37 AM | Link to this

Please don’t bring that whining crybaby back to Atlanta…Glavine is washed up and let’s move on…just ask the Mets how badly he collapsed down the stretch.

By tim in smyrna

October 6, 2007 6:44 AM | Link to this

As a lifeling Braves fan who is married to a once huge Glavine fan, I am one of those who has both cheered and booed him the last few years. I respect everything he did for the Braves. Yet I do not respect his union role (and I’m not anti-union in general) and I certainly do not respect him personally for betraying himself. He was not true to himself nor his family. He wanted to be in ATL and went to NY for one reason, money, yet his heart obviously wanted to be here. Tommy is now being true to himself which is ina way an apology. JS will forgive him one night soon and he’ll be back. And with that rotation, the bullpen, and the everyday line-up next year, the Braves will easily be the best team in the NL and should make a run for one more WS for Cox, Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper and the gang. 2008 should be a great season. Welcome back Tommy!

By /\/\/\/\Berigan/\/\/\/\

October 6, 2007 6:53 AM | Link to this

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

October 6, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this

Manny being Manny. Is it just me or do the Red Sox and Indians look like the best teams in baseball let alone the AL.

Robert (JITB) Yep, they are….If somehow the Braves of ‘07 were in the WS against either of them, it would be 4 and out…

Well now…of all the teams down 2-0, they have the best chance of coming back, IMHO. The rest of their staff is not that good, and they will be back in Yankee stadium Sunday.

Speaking of Carmona, his performance this year gives me great hope for Reyes. I don�t know how many of you saw him last year but he was bad. He was 10 times worse on average than Reyes was in his worst start. I remember a game at Boston where he just got shelled. It was one of the worst performances I had ever seen. Look at him now.

Love the positive viewpoint, but Carmona throws a LOT harder than Jo-Jo.(Wasn’t he one of many closers last year after Wickman left…that just got killed?) Petitte threw a great game for 6, but guys who cannot put a ball past someone, don’t fair well in the postseason usually. Unless they have a Jimmy Key type curve. Teams like the Yankees, Cleveland, Boston, they don’t swing at the ball in the dirt often, that’s why Tim Hudson had a terrible game against the Sox earlier this year, can’t blow the ball past guys. Something to remember if we decide to get 2 #3’s instead of 1, #1

I think people who believe the Yankees will get Tex in 2009 may be wrong. I think they are looking at the wrong New York team. The Mets will be the big players for him. The Yanks may not be able to wait until then to get a 1B. Giambi won�t play there next year and unless they convert Damon they are in a lot of trouble.

You may be right there about Tex and the mets being the main team for him(wouldn’t that hurt!) But, the Yankees were without Giambi and Mankiwhatshisname most of the year, they still won only 4-5 games less than the Sox. They can wait. Or, if Boras acts like no way we can sign him this winter, trade him for a stud pitching prospect from the Yankees. They might just do that if they lose A-Rod. I don’t want to suffer thru another year like 2006 with Andruw.

Finally, I think the Braves getting Glavine will be a great deal because it will then allow them to actually get another starter via trade. They can plug one �pretty good� starter and one �decent� starter into the rotation. Otherwise, they will be forced to acquire a big time starter either via trade or free agency. I honestly believe a package of Reyes or James, Johnson or Lillibridge, and Diaz or Esquivel will net a good return. Early on it looks like the A�s and Giants may be the best bets. And, while I agree that Winn�s glove isn�t the greatest it is adequate and his bat is more than adequate. The Pirates are also a player but the question would be about McClouth. No way should Chris Duffy be apart of any deal. The Jays have a couple of decent pitchers but I fear the Braves would be giving up too much to get either one of them, who are shaky propositions. I know I will get some eye rolls but don�t count out the Devil Rays. I think they may listen to an offer for Kazmir. He is getting ever closer to free agency. Johnson, Reyes, and Esquivel would be quite the return. I also believe the Angels would listen to offers for Erwin Santana.

Robert, I think just losing Glavine alone will hurt the Mets, and if we get him, so much the better! That just leaves them with Maine and Martinez really. I just worry about getting 2 more #3’s as mentioned above. But, that may be all that is available. as for Tampa. I think a lot will have to do with how they start the 2008 season off. I’d say position by position they are almost as good as any team in baseball. Laugh if you want, but they really don’t need Reyes and Johnson, they like everyone else, needs 1-2 more starters. Kazmir, and Shields both had ERA’s under 4, and winning records for that team. Both Andy Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson are both 24, and should improve next year. They also have #1 Draft pick David Price, who I think Gammons said should be in the majors next year. So, there…my crazy a* prediction is the devil Rays…play .500 ball next year! ;) If the only were in the NL central, they would have a chance to win the division!**

By Train Wreck Bystander

October 6, 2007 7:12 AM | Link to this

Don’t get your Tom Terrific jerseys out of mothballs just yet - Glavine is being mentioned as a possible acquisition for the Nationals.

I realize it’s his agent talking, but the Kasten angle makes you wonder if maybe it will happen…

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 6, 2007 7:15 AM | Link to this

Signing Glavine is key to trading Renteria. With Smoltz , Hudson , Glavine , James , Reyes , Bennett , Cormier , Carlyle and probably Hampton in the picture , the Braves are set and loaded in the rotation and bullpen. John Schuerholz is going to be in the drivers seat when it comes time to trade Edgar Renteria. The Tigers , Cardinals , A’s , Giants have all been mentioned as teams looking for a quality SS. I think Renteria is going to end up in Detroit or St.Louis but not for the reason’s that most think. Once Glavine is under contract , the Braves biggest need is in CF and the Tigers/Cardinals are the two teams best suited to fill that need.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 6, 2007 7:19 AM | Link to this

Train Wreck bystander , here is a news flash from five years ago. Glavine has emphatically stated this fact : he will only play for two teams , the Mets or the Braves and he just turned down 13 million from the Mets.

By /\/\/\/\Berigan/\/\/\/\

October 6, 2007 7:41 AM | Link to this

Coach,

I really don’t think we can take his word for anything, until he is under contract. Both Glavine’s agent and JS like to say one thing, and do another. There were rumors I read somewhere about Glavine and the Cards even!

By Decisions, Decisions

October 6, 2007 7:58 AM | Link to this

I sometimes disagree with DOB but everything he said about Glavine is spot on!

The difference between he and many options out there is that he is still capable of pitching like a #1 starter on some nights. He would probably be affordable in the grand scheme of things and a one year contract would be attractive.

Glavine would be pitching at home. He would be reunited with Smoltz, Cox and an organization where he thrived for many years. The comfort level he would experience may well prove to help Glavine have a very productive year. I would worry about the fact that he may run out of gas WHEN he ran out of gas. I would worry about the playoff rotation AFTER I got to the playoffs. Braves fans have seen the last two years that its first and foremost about getting to the playoffs. I think Glavine gives this team a better chance of getting to the playoffs than any other option that REALISTICALLY might be available. I, for one, lobbied last year for Glavine’s return. I feel the same way this year.

The link posted by Train Wreck Bystander is a real, honest to goodness, story that I read a few days ago. I don’t think anyone who wants to see Glavine return should be concerned by that scenario. Here’s why.

From all that has been said by Glavine himself, I only see three options out there and the Nationals aren’t one of the options. One, he comes back to the Braves. Two, he re-signs with the Mets. Or three, he retires. Glavine is at the end of his career. He may feel like he has a few more games in his arm. Atlanta is the obvious choice and that will happen IF the Braves in fact want him back. If the Braves don’t want him and he wants to continue pitching another year, he will probably re-sign with the Mets for another run at the post-season. No matter how the Mets fans feel or the press slammed him, Glavine is tight with the Wilpon’s and the Mets do know he would be valuable as at least a third starter even if the Mets swing another pitching deal.

If you are Tom Glavine and you are thinking about pitching one last year, what do you do? Do you sign with your home team? Sign with a team you have been with the last five years? Both these options carry a good chance at post-season play. OR do you sign with a team that is re-building? Why on earth would Glavine want to get involved with a re-building process in what may well be his final season?

Glavine IS there for the Braves if they want him. It’s as simple as that.

By Stinky

October 6, 2007 8:00 AM | Link to this

Tom Glavine is a Met and has been for 5 seasons. Let his last baseball memory be that of a tired old Met who blew the biggest game of his last Met season.

He wouldn’t take a ‘home’ discount last year when he presumably had something left in the tank. The only reason he’d take one this season is because his needle’s on empty. Or less than empty. And after that end-of-season meltdown, don’t think that a hometown discount amounts to 9 million. He’s got more to prove as a pitcher than his war stories are going to be worth. The Braves can find someone else to post a 4.45 ERA for less than 9 million.

So let Mr. Met ride off into that Met sunset. Let him think about all those happy Met fans and glorious Met seasons. Let him think about why he left to be a Met - all those Met Reasons.

By Decisions, Decisions

October 6, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

Stinky, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Tom Glavine never got an offer from the Braves last year, so he didn’t even have the opportunity to consider a “hometown discount.”

The last couple of years of finding someone to post a 4.45 ERA for less than 9 million has worked out pretty well hasn’t it?

When you have 23 quality starts and post a 4.45 ERA is shows that you had a few games where you got shelled. It also shows that you had far more games when you pitched very well. It’s like the Braves offensive numbers ranking near the top of the league. The Braves had a lot of games where they scored double digit runs and everyone hit. That pads the team stats. They had far too many games where no one hit and they struggled for runs. Those were the games that cost the Braves.

If a guy can give me 23 quality starts, I’ll accept that fact that there are going to be a few games when he takes a beating and we aren’t going to win. I’ll also feel comfortable knowing that there are far many more games when he is going to keep me in the game and give me a chance to win.

I could give a rats a$$ what happened five years ago. The guy can help the team. The Braves weren’t without some blame when he left the first time. I want to see the Braves in the playoffs again. I think Glavine gives them the best chance to do that without having to give up more talent to get there.

By DHD

October 6, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

Glavine is not my favorite but I am more about the name on the front of the jersey than the back. If he an give us 20 decent starts, it will help us. Think of his starts vs some of the starts we had with the scrubs. We are close as it is and adding Glavine and Hampton can do the trick. I think losing Andruw will be a wash. While he saved games with his glove and drove in over 90 runs, he also struck out too many times in clutch situations.

By atltrey

October 6, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

If we sign glavine we might as well sign Dale Murphy to replace Andruw.We need a young power pitcher not a 75 year old 30mph Glavine.I appreciate what he did back in the day but hes not the same guy.What about those young guy cincinnati got!!!!!!!GO BRAVES

By gart

October 6, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this

why not offer glavine number 4 type money laced with incentives that include large payout for world series rings, and for that matter offer the same to maddux if his option isnt picked up. atlanta would sell out all season long with a rotation of hudson smoltz maddux glavine and hampton in the 5 hole when healthy, sure ita a 1 yr or bust team but it doesnt require selling the rest of the farm and gives the farm one more year to mature, and then sure if you can get a blanton or a bergmann bannister for a minuscle prospect sure go for it chances are hampton want stay healthy , but boy if he does, go braves

By Joe D loves Marilyn

October 6, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this

What about going after Tori Hunter???

Great CF with a good bat…have to be able to score / produce runs come postseason…as well as shut down the other guys…

By Mitch

October 6, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

Mr O Brien, that was a great column. I’m in complete agreement with you that the Braves should find a way to sign Glavine, even if just for one year, with an option for a second.

We are very much a “Have to win now” team. Chipper is going to be 36 next year, and always injured. Smoltz is going to be 41, Tex might be with us only one more year. Andruw is gone. The only Brave superstar who is in the prime of his career is Tim Hudson. I believe that Tommy could still win us 12-15 games, with a four ERA. That would be perfectly acceptable. With Mike Hampton a huge question mark, our top three of Smoltz, Hudson, and Glavine would be very solid. Throw in Chuck James for 10-13 wins, and Reyes or someone else at number five, with Soriano, and by June, Gonzalez, in the pen, this staff is a more than solid one. I agree with you that we will win the NL East with that staff. I dont know if we can afford to sign Dan Haren, but I’d love to see it.

I hope we can get this done. I’d love to see old Number 47 back at Turner Field, winning important games for us next year, on the way to October.

Mitch

By bevsouth

October 6, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Has anyone looked at Gregor Blanco’s stats the year, batted 290 walked 152 time OBP 472 albeit no power but certainly an option in CF for next year.

By KC

October 6, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

For Dan Haren, I would trade any position player or prospect other than Frenchy, McCann, Chipper, or Tex.

Yes, I’m convinced that Escobar will be a star. STILL… I would include him in a deal for Haren if that’s what it took.

With that in mind… if Escobar or B.Jones have to go in such a deal… so be it.

By WFC

October 6, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Glavine is a tough competitor but “control type” pitchers almost never have success in their 40’s (Spahn is an exception and Niekro a fluke). Offer TG no more than $5mil and even that is a gamble. Ask Bill James if you don’t believe me.

Love Andruw but he’s worth no more than $10 mil per year for max 5 years.

Good defensive CF’s are not that hard to find.

Chipper had a great year.

By KC

October 6, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the 10:21 re-post. I’m actually not sure how that happened.

By Efrim

October 6, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Dan Haren is great, but he is NOT Josh Beckett. Not at all. But I agree with you, you will most likely have to deal Escobar or Brandon Jones for Haren. To be honest, maybe both. Haren is signed to a great contract that Oakland could afford. Blanton is another story, I believe he is arbitration eligible. I just don’t think Haren is traded, Blanton, yes. I actually think Santana is as good as gone, and if Baltimore gets blown away with an offer, Bedard is as good as gone as well. Bedard is a free agent at the end of 2009.

By KC

October 6, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Mitch: “We are very much a �Have to win now� team.”

I will have to respectfully disagree.

Yes, we have a number of aged veterans… however, I think you need to take the following into account:

First of all, we have a good base of young talent already at the major league level (or at least appeared in September): Frenchy, McCann, Escobar, KJ, Moylan, James, Reyes, Bennett, B.Jones, Devine, Ascanio, Acosta…

And more good young talent on the farm: J.Schafer, Dan Smith, Lillibridge, Matt Esquivel, Phil Stockman… just to name a few.

Will also have a number of other players that could wind up being here for a while to come: Hudson, Soriano, Matt Diaz, Mike Gonzalez, and Teixeira (who contrary to what many believe, we WILL have a good shot at re-signing).

And let’s say that guys like Tex, Smoltz, Chipper, and Mike Hampton were about to play their last year or 2 in Atlanta… Those 4 players will represent about 50 million dollars of the Braves payroll next year. If they sign Glavine, you can add him to that group, which would mean those 5 guys would make up close to 60 million of the Braves payroll.

My point is that 2-3 years from now when most of afore mentioned players’ contracts are up… the Braves will have plenty of cash to go out and get the needed pieces to place around all of this good young talent that’s on the rise in this organization.

However, you are correct that time is running out for the Smoltzy/Chipper led Braves. Smoltz is the ultimate post-season weapon, and surely it won’t be too much longer before age finally catches up to him. And Chipper is as good as ever right now, but he’s certainly approaching the age of diminishing returns.

So I agree with you that we really want to make a run next year… But I just can’t agree that they “must” win next year. Lot’s of young talent here. The Braves should be a winning team for a long time to come.

By choppinmama

October 6, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Count me in as willing to welcome the Prodigal Son back into the fold for next season. Glav will be more comfortable and relaxed pitching at the Ted next year. His talent and rubber arm will give us many “quality starts” and can only help those young lefties on the roster watch a master do his thing at the Quest-Tec-less ballpark.

Pack those bags, honey, and head on back home.

The only thing Tom will leave in NY as his legacy will be his two front teeth.

By Braveheart

October 6, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

DOB, this sounds kinda stupid but if the Braves go into next year with Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Hampton, James, and either Blanton or Haren, could the Braves go to a six man rotation early in the season to keep their pitchers healthier throughout the season?

Smoltz and Glavine would benefit as older pitchers. Hampton would benefit as a hurt pitcher. Hudson did better this year when given 5+ days rest between starts. Hudson had a 1.38 ERA in 65 innings this year when given 5 or more days of rest. Chuck did end up with the dead arm from early august onward. Glavine had a 3.52 ERA in 107 innings with 5 or more days of rest. A 5.52 ERA on 4 days rest.

It won’t stay that way the whole year because eventually someone will be hurt or ineffective and they will go back to a 5 man rotation and perhaps be looking for another starter in July because something always happens and a plethora of arms in the spring always seems to turn into a shortage at some point in the season.

But I think maybe doing that early in the season will especially keep Glavine, Smoltz, Hampton, James, and Hudson even more effective in August, September, and hopefully October.

However, just looking at the stats, alot of days of rest actually seems to hurt Blanton and Haren though.

By daniel

October 6, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

lets get haren and glavine! awesome rotation and if we can add mike cameron we’d be set!

By Efrim

October 6, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

But you have to admit, this version of the Braves has 2 years, to win a World Series. The 2010 version of the Braves are going to be very different. VERY. As you said, if those players don’t return, we will have tons of cash to spend on free agents, and it just so happens that there are a lot of free agent pitchers that will be intriging after the 2009 season. Erik Bedard, Brad Penny, and Jake Peavy will all be free agents. I have no problem giving Jake Peavy 15 million a year. No problem at all.

But understand that if we sign Tom Glavine to a one year deal, all you are going to hear from ESPN and other media outlets is “this is the last chance for the Braves”. Throw in there JS and Bobby Cox possible retirement after the 2008 season, most likely after 2009. I actually think they will stay two more years, and then proceed to leave after 2009 when John Smoltz and Chipper Jones leave as well. I would be suprised if Smoltz and Jones were on this team in 2010. Very Suprised.

By bwash21

October 6, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Glavine is not going to Washington no matter what. He can re-negotiate w/ the Mets if the Braves don’t sign him. He will be in NY or ATL next yr. Cameron is going to cost 8-10M per year and is not coming here. The Braves are not going to pay him that much. Randy Winn, MAYBE. I don’t think we’ll address CF at all until spring training after we see what we have in house. Escobar will not be traded. We just gave up alot of prospects for Tex and will not trade our next best one who has tons of potential and can play 2b, ss, and 3b. Kelly Johnson is as good as gone for a pitcher if there is a pitcher out there. It’s going to take alot more than him to get one of the A’s pitchers. Harden is interesting if he’s available but he’s hurt alot. He reminds me of a young Smoltz and when healthy, he will dominate especially in the NL. I remember Schilling being very injury proned early in his career before developing. That could be Harden and he could be a steal if he gets 30+ starts per year. I’d love to see him pitching Gm 1 or 2 for us in the playoffs. We better re-sign Tex next year after trading all those prospects. I am concerned about that. I am ready for next yr to start!

By Braveheart

October 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

If John Schuerholz retires after next year and becomes the commish?, could Terry Ryan replace him? Sounds like a good choice if so. Ryan is still too young to be “retired.”

By Jared

October 6, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

How can the Braves afford Tom Glavine and Cameron? True Andruw Jones is gone, and so is Bob Wickman, but the raises that Smoltz, Hudson and Teixeira are getting are pretty huge. Plus you’ll have to pay all of Mike Hampton’s salary.

Even if the Braves trade Renteria, I don’t see how they can afford it unless Liberty Media is going to really jack up the payroll.

Glavine to the Nationals? Does anyone else get the feeling that the Mets have already told Glavine to take a hike and Glavine’s agent wants some leverage? 2008 is almost certainly Glavine final year, I highly doubt he’ll spend it pitching for a team with no shot whatsoever of making the postseason.

By KC

October 6, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Efrim: Yes, the next couple years will probably be the end of an era for the Braves.

Bobby Cox might retire soon (though personally, I think he’ll be here at least 2 more years)… and age will have to catch up to Smoltzy sometime relatively soon. I think he has another great year or two left in him, but he can’t dominate forever.

Chipper is no spring chicken either, and the way his body breaks down, he might only have another couple years of being an MVP caliber player (even when he’s on the field). And if Glavine comes back, certainly it’ll just be a season or two before he retires.

So yes, THIS era of the Braves is nearing an end.

I’m just saying that when the Cox/Chipper/Smoltzy Braves era is over… a new generation will be coming of age.

You’re probably right in saying that ESPN will say things like “last chance”. The next couple years might be the last chance for Chipper, Smoltzy, and BC… but it’s not like this franchise is going transition into a 5 year rebuilding phase of losing seasons when those guys are gone. Too much young talent for that.

By Efrim

October 6, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Agreed. New era indeed. Especially with youngsters like Jordan Schafer, Cody Johnson, Jason Heyward, Cole Rohrbough, Tommy Hanson, Jeff Lock and Steve Evarts ready to come up by 2010.

By flange1

October 6, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Morning All,

On Chipper,

Everyone on this blog seems to think when Chipper’s contract runs out, he will leave the Braves. Did anyone se his reaction to the Biggio weekend in Houston? Chipper will retire a Brave. He will stay with the team until he decides to quit. My gut says 4 years..

By fastasballs

October 6, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

uga-brave I never said Glavine wasn’t that good. I said be was a bargain for the Braves, but I didn’t care for him compared to other past Braves’ players.

It was late when I posted, so I went back & read what I wrote & didn’t see that part about Glavine wasn’t any good.

By dan

October 6, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

NOOOO!!! Glavine is a temporary fix to a long term problem. While it would be great for sentimentality sake, I would rather JS get a YOUNG, quality starting pitcher that will be here longer than 1-2 seasons. The rotation has multiple holes, yes, but the young guys we have showed flashes of greatness this year. I beleive there was too much pressure on them. Get a GREAT, YOUNG starter, and use the rest of the money to sign Tex!! Oh, and a good center fielder too!!

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves In 2008)

October 6, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

For payroll purposes , Smoltz , Hudson , Chipper , Hampton and Renteria will eat up approximately 56.6 million. Teixeira has been slated to win 12 to 13 million in arbitration and nine other players are also arbitration eligible. Liberty has stated that the payroll is going up , how much is anyone’s guess. The minimum salary in 2008 is 390,000. Did you know that any player with with even one day of service time in the majors will make 60,000 even if they play the entire season in triple A. At any rate , how much the the Braves can afford is purely educated guesswork unless your name is John Schuerholz.

By PhillyGirl

October 6, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

If you guys had a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton, and Haren/Blanton, that would simply be unfair. Even if you substitute Reyes, James, or Bennett for one of the aforementioned, you guys would still be nasty.

By the way, what are the odds Glavine goes to the Phils? Then he will have pitched for all 3 rivals. The Phils have more money than the Braves, we need him more, and Glavine really only cares about the money anyway.

By swolf4810

October 6, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

What the hell…bring Glavine back. A temporary fix is way better than no fix at all. And for all of you who still hold a grudge against him from the strike….he was just doing his job as the elected player rep. In the meantime, and for the building of the future in Atlanta; I think we NEED to right the wrong that was done and give Leo Masone (sp?) his props and pay whatever it takes to get the best pitching coach in baseball back in Atlnta where he BELONGS!

By Jared

October 6, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

“NOOOO!!! Glavine is a temporary fix to a long term problem.”

The short term thing is WHY Glavine is so perfect. It’s not a long term committment. The Braves have good pitching prospects in the lower minors. They need a third starter to go between Smoltz/Hudson and James/Hampton. It makes too much sense.

The Braves are not getting Haren. Blanton I really doubt but it’s at least possible.

By Fat Lady

October 6, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

If Glavine is smart he will retire and get a job as a Sports Broadcaster. Later years his arm want hurt all the time and he can enjoy his family while he still has time. Once you leave a place and return years later its never the same. Best for Glavine and Braves is for Glavine to retire or stay in NY. I pray he does.

By GeorgetownKid

October 6, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

A lot of people are including James in their hypothetical trades. I may be wrong, but I don’t see much demand for James, in that I believe teams view him as a flawed pitcher who is suited for the #5 slot. You can’t really get that much in a trade if the best thing you’re offering is a #5 starter.

Regarding the possibility of the trades with Oakland, Renteria would not be a valuable bargaining chip. Beane wants young, affordable players, not players in their 30s who after one year will be free-agents. If we want one of the horses from the As, we had better be willing to part with at least one of our young studs: Escobar, Reyes, Hanson, or Rohrbough.

If we include one of those guys and throw in Kelly Johnson or Lillibridge, that would be an offer that Oakland would have to seriously consider. Without one of those studs, I don’t see us getting either of Oakland’s prized starters.

Lastly, what is the contract status of Bennett? Will we have the option of keeping him in Richmond next year?

By DG

October 6, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

I was one of those extremely disappointed when Glavine left for the Mets. But it is time to let sleeping dogs lie and bring Tommy back. He will be a tremendous presence in the clubhouse, he is still a terrific pitcher (and the last few starts in 2007 are not representative), and he will battle for every run. Glavine takes losing personally and has a tough bulldog personality and I saw that sorely missing from Chuck James and Buddy Carlyle. And corny as this sounds this is where Glavine belongs in the last year or two—in a Braves uniform. He defines the greatness of the 90s teams and hopefully will fuel that NL East championship next year. This team is almost there, and even w/o TBS it will be a super year next year.

By Jared

October 6, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

I’d rather trade Escobar than Johnson. Johnson has a better ability to draw a walk and more homerun power. And say what you will about defense, Johnson’s fielding percentage in 2007 is better than Escobar’s.

“Best for Glavine and Braves is for Glavine to retire or stay in NY. I pray he does.”

Get real Fat Lady. Glavine was good for six wins above a replacement level pitcher in 2006. He was the difference between the Braves finishing above the Mets in the standing and the Mets finishing above the Braves in the standings.

And one last time: Bennett is a career minor league journeyman pitcher coming off injuries. He is no more a solution to the Braves’ pitching problems than Carlyle or Jason Shiell.

He pitches one (or two?) good but not great games in the majors when the Braves were out of it and some people want him annointed a starting spot. Sheesh.

By GeorgetownKid

October 6, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

One point regarding the possibility of bringing back Glavine - he could largely pay for himself.

By that I mean, Glavine jearsies will sell like hot-cakes, and his first few starts are guaranteed to sell out. The announcement of his returning, and the photo ops of him together with Cox, Smoltz and Chipper would generate soooooo much buzz and excitement, that he could bring in a few extra million dollars just from merchandise and ticket sales.

There were several articles that documented the spike in fan-interest following the trade for Tex (increased attendence and increased TV viewership). I’ll bet that the Glavine signing will be even bigger.

By Edgar

October 6, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Sign TEX, Sing GLavine NOW!!!!!

By Herman Winkler

October 6, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

What is all of this talk of Glavine and Braves dancing? I thought this was a baseball blog. Does it really matter if he these players can dance? I know a lot about the Braves because I have watched them since 2003. I bet I’ve seen more than 20 games a year. Who is this Glavine anyway and who cares if he can dance? Plus I know a lot about dancing since I know many dances both modern and old. Old ones like the disco bump are my favorite but I also like to dance tangos and waltzes and other modern new dances. Do all of the Braves dance? Can Chipper dance with those bad toes of his? Ha Ha Ha. A little inside humor there. How long has this blog been going on? Can anyone answer a question for me? Is Thorman, my favorite player, going to be taking over at first next year? Man that guy can swing.

By Maine Braves fan

October 6, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

I say Sign Glavine. Trade for another pitcher. sign Tex to a contract and then fire Roger Mcdowell and bring back Leo Mazzone. Then we will win it all.

By Shaun

October 6, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Lew, I suppose original thought is using a stat that may have been reliable in the 1890s to measure the success and failure of a batter, namely batting average. Guess what, people actually walk and go for extra base hits nowadays.

By Bo

October 6, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

There are no temporary fix. How many time has JS tried a Temporary fix and it didn’t work? or just name one that did. DOB you said the Braves want Glavine. Do you mean JS or the Players and Cox are all of front office? I find it hard to believe JS and front office want to go in that direction. JS ,TG and his agent are not exactly buddy ,buddy. We all know Bobby wants all his old players to return, he’s living in the past. I believe Mark Bradley was right on Glavine and Schuerholz will pass on Glavine.

By CY Young

October 6, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Jeff Bennett is me reincarnated.

By Shaun

October 6, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Lew, I guess originality requires riding the tide of conservatism and continuing to rely on stats that have proven not necessarily reliable in this day and age in judging a player’s true value to a team—like batting average, RBI, runs, ERA, pitcher W-L record, batter strikeout total.

By Edgar

October 6, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

DOB

Do you know in which Winter League is Hampton plannig to pitch, Mexican, Dominican, Venezuelan or somewhere else.

By Jared

October 6, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

How many time has JS tried a Temporary fix and it didn�t work?

That is absurd. J.D. Drew didn’t work? What about Tim Hudson in 2005? He was supposed to be a temporary fix until the Braves extended him. How many non-miscellaneous (meaning not Chris Woodward) temporary fixes over the past few years didn’t pan out? Kolb? No, he was supposed to be here for three years until he sucked.

DOB you said the Braves want Glavine. Do you mean JS or the Players and Cox are all of front office?

I think O’Brien just means Schuerholz, Cox, Francouer, Chipper Jones and John Smoltz.

I believe Mark Bradley was right on Glavine and Schuerholz will pass on Glavine.

Bradley said the Braves shouldn’t bring back Glavine. He didn’t say they wouldn’t. The vibes from Schuerholz sure make it seem he is very interested. Doesn’t mean it will happen, but my money would be on Glavine being a Braves in 2008.

Shaun, stop shallowing the Sabremetrics kool-aid that Bill “Jim Jones” James is handing out. Batting average is a relevant stat. RBIs are not. And strikeouts matter when it’s late-and-close and you have a runner on third with one out and the defense conceding the run and Andruw Jones strikes out for the 1,000th time.

By Fat Lady

October 6, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

JARED you get real. I’m not out to finish above the Mets, the METS didn’t win. Phil. did because of Glavine. “I’m out to win it all.” I don’t care what the Mets do. Hell,Bobby Cox cost the Braves more than 6 games with his stupid decisions.

By Shaun

October 6, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Jared, I don’t see where I contradicted what you just said.

By Herman (The Baseball Man)

October 6, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you seem to know an awful lot about baseball. Can you answer a question for me? Is it possible for a baseball player to play good on paper even though it appears that he is playing badly? Well, I don’t really mean play on paper…that would be like a puppy dog or something but you know what I mean.

Also don’t you think that anybody like Andrew Jones who is batting well over 200 should be considered a good hitter? 200 is a lot better than 100 don’t you think?

I also know a lot about baseball since I’ve been watching since 2003 and have seen many games about 20 maybe even 30 a year (don’t they play like 60 something?) and I think you do too so we should compare knowledge and start our own blog. What do you think?

By seunghan Nam

October 6, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

give him 2 year 16m contract. That will boost his….

By Alan Greenspan

October 6, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

The only “Picture” that Mike hampton is ever going to be in is if they have a group shot of the Worst Free Agent Signings in History.

And for you Adam Smith at 1:09 AM, I have no problem with “Superstars” getting money but Mike Hampton exemplifies GARBAGE!!!! and all that is wrong with MLB as an example when The Curacao Cheeseburger is going to make millions because of an arbitration system that is so ridiculous as to defy credulity.

Any MORON who thinks that the petite lefty from Central Florida is going to have the intestinal fortitude and durability to take his place in a Major League rotation probably still believes in the tooth fairy—and NO!! the tooth fairy is not a reference to the silly grin on A. Jones’ face after a strikeout.

For you guys mentioning Hunter in CF, you do realize that he catches balls at the knees that the Curacao Clown now dives for. If you don’t believe me, there are many statistical sites where you can reference the diminished range factor of the former Braves’CF who will end up looking like an obese Charley Weis 5 years after he is through.

Mike Hampton!!!! Stop It!!!! The man has the durability of a 64 Camaro.

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Someone asked if I meant the players and Cox want Glavine, when I said the Braves wanted him.

No, I mean everyone that I’ve talked to with the Braves wants him. Schuerholz hasn’t said, point blank, that he wants Glavine, but he did say at this time last year that he wanted him, and has said many times how very highly he thinks of Glavine.

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Maine Braves Fan: Are you not at all concerned by how terrible Baltimore pitchers have performed in two seasons with Mazzone as their pitching coach, or do these two seasons not count for some reason because they weren’t with Atlanta pitchers or in the NL? Of the few pitchers who were there before and after Leo arrived, more were statistically worse with him than improved with him as coach.

Does the Braves’ No. 2 bullpen ERA in the NL mean nothing to you? Do you believe that since Kyle Davies stunk under Roger McDowell’s coaching, and Hampton’s been hurt for two seasons under Roger, that he must not be a good coach?

Just curious as to why you want Leo back when Braves pitchers and team officials don’t. Personally, I’d love to have him back; he was great to talk to, very engaging and entertaining.

But I gotta say, I’ve not been impressed by the Orioles’ “progress” with him as coach, nor by the utter lack of sentiment from pitchers I’ve talked to, past and present, who believe his absence has hurt the Braves. Haven’t talked to any who’ve said that, including several pitchers who’ve moved on to other teams.

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Edgar, as I’ve said, higher in this very blog if I’m not mistaken, Hampton hadn’t decided where he was going to pitch in winter ball as of one week ago.

By S tin Ky

October 6, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Glad to see that the Pied Piper (David O’brian) hasn’t suckered in everybody. There are still a few differentiating souls out there who know that donating 9 million dollars to the Tom Glavine Retirement Fund is pure Stupidity.

Glavine won’t pitch anywhere else. He won’t get more than 5 million after that end-of-season meltdown.

But DOB would have everyone think that Glavine is worth 9 million. I wonder…

By KC

October 6, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

GeorgetownKid: For cyrin’ out loud…

THIS WAS ONLY JAMES FIRST FULL SEASON IN THE BIG LEAGUES!

Is it okay if I hold onto my Chuck James Stock for one more season? Geeze�you talk like everyone in baseball must be convinced that he’s capable of nothing more than being an average big league starter at best. WHY?

Yes, he’s flawed. Of course he is. He�s too prone to the long ball, and he doesn�t give you the kind of innings you want. He has to make some adjustments. One of the reasons I hope Glavine returns is that I think he may really be able to help him make those adjustments.

But despite his flaws, James the following to his credit:

� A career ERA so far of 4.00 in 48 starts (good by today�s standards). Compare that to Glavine’s 4.76 ERA in his first 2 seasons (43 starts) - in a less hitter-friendly era.

� Fewer hits than innings pitched in so far in his young career (269 hits in 286 innings).

� Heading into his last start in the month of July (before his shoulder started bothering him), he had a 3.55 ERA, at which time he was one of the top 15 starters in the league in that category.

� At the end of July (again, right before the arm trouble and the DL stint), James career numbers were: 18-11, with a 3.68 ERA.

I don�t know what kind of pitcher Chuck James will turn out to be� He could turn into to Tom Glavine, Damion Moss, or anything in between. But it�s ridiculously premature to predict a career as a #5-starter for James. He�s got a shot to be a quality starter.

What happened over his last 2 months in the rotation does not erase the potential I saw over his previous 7 months in the rotation. I�m sure there are GMs that feel the same way. We got Soriano for Horacio Ramirez� and you don�t think there would be takers for Chuck James???

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Anyone see the new ESPN magazine that had the “7 things you should know about the postseason” from Greg Maddux?

No. 3 was “You can’t just flip a switch.” (My, how the Braves should know that). Maddux said in that one: “I know only two guys who could turn it up in te playoffs: Steve Avery and John Smoltz. Smoltz is the best playoff teammate I’ve had. I have no idea how he does it.”

And No. 7: “We always make it home safely.” Of this he said, “There’s little pain in losing; you forget about it quickly. I vividly remember Marquis Grissom catching the last out when we won the Series, in 1995, but I don’t remember much from any of the 11 times we lost. Losing doesn’t last. Winning stays with you.”

Interesting, coming from the smartest, most intuitive athlete I’ve had the pleasure of covering….

Flange1, I agree with you: I do believe Chipper (and Smoltz) will retire as Braves. I would not want to be the owner or GM who low-balls them and drives them away, dealing with that PR nightmare, I can tell you that. Unless, of course, one of them has a season equivelent to Andruw’s “walk year,” in which case the public outrage would certainly not be as great as it might be otherwise….

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Now gotta focus my attention back on this KU-Kansas State game. Thank God for Fox Sports Net….

By Reality Checker

October 6, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

David, Since you’re here. I’d like an opinion. Let’s say that any SEC East team, with the exception of Vandy and Kentucky, were to win 14!!! consecutive SEC Eastern Division Titles and then go on to win only ONE SEC Championship. How do you think—Honestly—that would play in Athens, Knoxville, gainesville and even Columbia. If your answer is that the good denizens of those 4 cities would be PERTURBED, would that be any different than the Braves winning 14 division titles in a row and parlaying that into ONE!!!!! World Series Championship and many of those years they had 3!!!!! hall of Fame pitchers.

Now I know you guys love those eastern Division banners and don’t seem to care that the Florida Marlins have won as many World Series in 10 years as the Braves have won since 1953, but should any mention be made that for 10 of those years 2 of the 4 teams in that Division were the penniless Marlins and Expos/Nats?? One of the 2 remaining teams the Braves were competing against were the “Well run and highly efficient Mets”(LOL)——so it seems to me that you basically want the Braves to be commended for dominating the Philadelphia Phillies and then frittering away playoff chances.

David, The NL East was basically the Mountain West Conference with a pass to the BCS.

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

By the way, you, Alan Greenspan, are one bitter individual.

Sure would love to see you call Hampton “the petite lefty” to his face, and then question his “intestinal fortitude.” That’d be entertaining.

You do know he was recruited by Florida State as as a defensive back, right? Just wondering if you were aware of that.

But I’m sure you’d use your intestinal fortitude to will away torn ligaments and tendons in your elbow, thereby avoiding surgeries, right? Or maybe you think he was faking the injuries because he’d rather go through surgery twice, and one-year rehabs, back-to-back, while getting ripped and critiicized by folks like you, than to just go out and pitch?

Yeah, makes sense. Good points.

Durable? No. He’s certainly not. Not in the latter half of his career, he’s not been. But intestinal fortitude? I’d say he’s probably got more than me, you, or a lot of other folks who’d have just said, my elbow’s not good enough to pitch anymore, and sat home drawing the nearly $30 mill he’s getting paid this year and next, instead of going through very tedious and arduous rehab.

By sT in Ky

October 6, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

I do believe Chipper (and Smoltz) will retire as Braves. I would not want to be the owner or GM who low-balls them and drives them away, dealing with that PR nightmare, I can tell you that.

Talk about lobbying for the home team stars, just to stay in their good graces…

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

S in Kentucky, if Glavine’s elbow, shoulder and arm in general are alright, I think he’s worth $8 mill or so, maybe $9-10 mill. This is based on what pitchers who consistently win 13-14 games and pitch 200 innings make these days. That’s about right. (Unlike you, who, I’m just guessing, probably base what you’d pay such a pitcher on what you think athletes are worth or how much you dislike him for leaving the Braves or standing up for his union, etc, rather than being a GM simply trying to put together a winning team in the real world were players in all sports, and entertainers in general, are vastly overpaid).

But I’d do a battery of tests on Glavine to make sure, first. If there’s any doubt about his health, any reason to believe he was hurt at the end, no, I wouldn’t offer him a contract. But if he’s healthy, I’d do it. Yes. I’d offer about $8 mill, see if that’d get it done. But Braves might have to go to $10 mill, because he could get that much or more from several teams including St. Louis and Washington, I’m guessing.

By Jared

October 6, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

“He won�t get more than 5 million after that end-of-season meltdown.”

Stinky, even you aren’t this dumb. There are at least ten different teams that would sign Tom Glavine for six million if given the chance.

By Defending The Honor Of The RBI Man

October 6, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

this hatred for the RBI stat is somewhat misplaced. most fans intuitively know how the RBI stat comes about.

PER 162:

Dave Winfield: 284 Total Bases, 5 sac flies, 100 RBIs. 284 divided by 3 + 5 sac flies equals 100 expected RBIS.

Jeff Francouer: 295 Total Bases, 5 sac flies, 104 RBIs. 295/3 + 5 equals 103.3 expected RBIS.

Dale Murphy: 277 total bases, 4 sac flies, 94 RBIs. 277/3 + 4 equals 95 expected RBIs.

Hank Aaron: 337 total bases, 6 sac flies, 113 RBIs. 337/3 + 6 equals 118 expected RBIs.

Chipper Jones: 322 TBs, 6 SFs, 111 RBIs. 322/3 + 6 equals 113 expected RBIs.

Andruw Jones: 293 TBs, 6 SFs, 103 RBIs. 293/3 + 6 equals 104 expected RBIs.

Bob Horner: 300 TBs, 8 SFs, 108 RBIs. 300/3 + 8 equals 108 expected RBIs.

David Justice: 283 TBs, 5 SFs, 102 RBIs. 283/3 + 5 equals 99 expected RBIs.

Fred McGriff: 294 TBs, 5 SFs, 102 RBIs. 294/3 + 5 equals 103 expected RBIs.

Joe Carter: 289 TBs, 8 SFs, 107 RBIs. 289/3 + 8 equals 104 expected RBIs.

Ruben Sierra: 268 TBs, 9 SFs, 98 RBIs. 268/3 + 9 equals 98 expected RBIs.

Gary Sheffield: 307 TBs, 7 SFs, 108 RBIs. 307/3 + 7 equals 109 expected RBIs.

Paul Oneill: 272 TBs, 7 SFs, 100 RBIs. 272/3 + 7 = 99 expected RBIs.

Not perfect. Many discrepancies out there for other players on other teams playing in other ballparks. But taking total bases, dividing it by 3, and adding the number of sac flies seems to be a pretty fair way to gauge expected RBI totals for Atlanta Braves hitters hitting from 3 to 6 in the lineup.

By Savannah Guy

October 6, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Alan GreenSpam Your ideas about the Braves economy is not only irrational but your seeming exuberance in trashing Hampton is just plain hurtful (to your credibility and intelligence). PsuedoAlan Ex Fed Chairman, if you are so concerned about inflation, check your hat size. There seems to be a little swelling up there.

So, John S. made a terrible acquisition because he should have known Hampton would get injured? Hampton is garbage why? Because he purposefully allowed himself to be injured so he could get free money? Mad because he didn�t refuse his paycheck? Does that mean he�s garbage?

Poor fella. Must be terrible to be so negative, live with you and be you.

The good news: you can change if you want. Sorry for the somewhat harsh retort but, well…you earned it fair and square. I’m sure you understand. Mike Hampton is a good man. Musn’t trash him.

By s T ink y

October 6, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

You do know he was recruited by Florida State as as a defensive back, right?

Thus spoke Homer!

By Jared

October 6, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

“S in Kentucky”

It’s Stinky, O’Brien.

By Lew

October 6, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun-They walked and got extra base hits in the 1890’s as well. Come to think of it, just where did the whole 1890’s argument pop into the equation, anyway? Just because there were no win share stats before 1990, much less the prior century, doesn’t negate what went before the bean counters got ahold of the game, twisting it beyond any previous recognition. Just how in the world did anyone play the game or enjoy watching it before there were Win Shares and Pythagorean applications? Beats hell out of me. I guess these 50 years of watching baseball were meaningless for me because I couldn’t analyze it properly until the New Age Stat Boys showed up. I still contend that if you give me BA, RBI, OBP and Runs scored, I can tell you if a player is any good, or not, without all that other crap. All the extraneous stuff does is keep you off the streets and the world’s traffic somewhat less congested.

Efrin-Do we really care what the ESPN analysts will say next year? Or any year?

UGA Brave-Dude, your Anti Francoeur rant is becoming Robertian in it’s proportions. You’re not sure if Francoeur will ever be a star? Dude, he already is, whether or not you are a believer. Any player who knocks in 100 Runs two of his first three years (the first having been a partial season), raises his batting average over 30 points in a season and raises his OBP 40+ points in one year-all by changing his hitting approach- has already hit stardom. Your own failure to acknowledge the fact doesn’t render it any less valid.

By Stinky

October 6, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

I�d offer about $8 mill, see if that�d get it done.

First it was nine.

And in coming to my determination of what he’s worth, I take into account that he’s a 41 yr old, one year signing who desperately wants to ‘come home to Atlanta’. He’s old with an 80 mph fastball that looks a lot like his change up a few years ago.

My money’s on Alan Greenspan. He’d clean a Fla. St. DB’s clock easy.

Only real men can writ my name.

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Jared, yeah, he is that dumb. Not exactly attuned to the baseball salary scale, this one.

And yeah, I just realized it was him or it, after you said that. Wouldn’t have bothered answering if I’d known.

Hey, to the unnamed putz, please quit soiling the blog with bile as you fight back at those meanies from high school.

Maybe you could go back to the stamp collection, since I’m fairly certainly you’ve got no kids, wife or girlfriend, and no adult hobbies, and I’m absolutely certain you are not going to spend any part of your Saturday watching college football or playoff baseball.

No, wait a second. Actually, keep it up.

You’re good for page hits on a slow Saturday, not just because you post all day and night as long as anyone responds to your comments (Pavlov would love you), but also because your bitter and outrageous comments inspire numerous rebuttals and backlash from folks.

All good for page hits.

By Metropolitan Man

October 6, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Take the bum Glavine back. R. Peterson, Pedro, And El Duque are the ones who helped develop the “new Glavine” a few years ago when he finally stopped getting rocked. Granted he would have many more wins if it wasnt for Looper and the sorry defense when he 1st became a MET back then. So now the METS can expose him becasue he is either going to be the new Glavine that they know and helped become, or the old Glavine they every team raked against as he got older and the season went on. Either way get him away from Shea and let him sniff Citi Field as a spectator. Thanks for your professionalism Glavine, but your game is going south like you should be. Besides if he hasnt been on the DL yet, just missing starts here and there the past few years, he may be due. Not wishing him bad luck here but he is a gamer and refuses to misss a start just to keep that “never been on the DL” thing going and hurting the team.
Stay away from the METS Glavine, you got your money, go back home and spend it!!!!

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Reality Checker, I don’t know. let me know when a team wins 14 consecutive SEC East titles, and we’ll go from there.

Besides, is that really a comparable scenario? By that I mean, if you win the SEC East, you then play one game for the SEC Championship.

In baseball, since the advent of the wild card, you have to win your division or the wild card, then win a best-of-five series to have the right to play in a best-of-seven series for the NL pennant, and THEN you get to play a best-of-seven World Series.

How is that at all like the SEC divisional thing, where you win the East or West and play one game for the conference title? I’m missing something there in your comparison.

But anyway … if you’re asking me how Braves fans should or do feel, why are you asking me? I think plenty are upset at winning only one World Series, plenty are thrilled to have won 14 consecutive division titles, and plenty have mixed emotions, happy about the division titles and that unprecedented run of consistency, but very disappointed not to have won more than one of the ultimate championships during the run.

But I don’t know. You’d have to ask fans. I’m basing that on what fans say in this space, in e-mails to me, and in vents in the paper, plus what the ones I run into on a regular basis tell me.

You’re free to feel however you want. no one will be angry with you.

By Stinky

October 6, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Wouldn�t have bothered answering if I�d known.

Some people are just slow. Or dumb. Like Dob.

By Lew

October 6, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Reality Checker-Your analogy with the SEC is flawed. Maybe if you were talking 14 consecutive SEC Titles and One National Championship, it might be a more equitable comparison-even then, though-I’m not sure because there are about 1200 Teams in competing in Division 1 football for a National Championship in any given year.

Whether or not the Braves should or shouldn’t have won more WS titles is a moot point. They still did something no other team in the history of professional sports in the U.S. did. Even the Yankees streak of Division Titles ended at 9 this season-five short of the Braves’ record. Yeah, of course we’re all disappointed, but it’s over and there is nothing we, or anyone else can do to change it. Time to get over it, Dude and move on to a new streak starting in 08.

By Herman (The Baseball Man)

October 6, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Ok Shaun I have just gone back the drawing board and thought about this for quite a while and I still think you and I are a perfect match for a Blog of our own. People would like us and our personalities and our baseball knowledge which is second to none. They would flock to our blog by the millions and we could charge $10 for membership and $1 for every time they post. What do you think about that? We could be millionaires!!! Here are some suggested names for our blog:

Herman and Shauns Baseball Blog
Shaun and Hermans Baseball blog
The baseball blog of Shaun and Herman

or something fancy like:

THE HermShau StatBlog for true baseball bloggers
HerSha Blog For discriminating baseball blogger who want everything discussed in greaat detail and at great length.

Even though it is long I like the fifth one best because it’s catchy and it joins our names in a clever way. Which is your fave? Let’s get started!!!

By David O'Brien

October 6, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Looks like the ‘ol Wildcats can handle Texas down in Austin, but not my Jayhawks. KU up 30-24 with a minute to go, on the road in Manhattan…. Rock Chalk. Not often us KU alums get to celebrate a win over a ranked opponent, at least not outdoors….

By Lew

October 6, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Excuse me-Typo-Should have been about 100 teams-certainly not 1200.

By Herman (The Baseball Man)

October 6, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Stinky is that your real name? Did you shorten it or something from like Stinkymeister or Stinkyman or something? I think it’s a pretty cool moniker. It really sets you apart. Maybe I should shorten mine to Herm or something. What do you think? You can come to visit the new blog that Shaun and I are going to start. I just went to the library and got the history of baseball so I could learn more so I can answer tough baseball questions like Shaun.

Shaun are you still around? Have you decided which name you like best yet? Stinky, do you have a suggested name for our blog? Have the baseball playoffs started yet and do they always get played in the same stadiums?

By Steamboat

October 6, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton may be the worst free agent signing ever (just because of the $$ and the injuries, not because he’s a bad guy, a bad player, or “brittle”), but that’s COLORADO’S blunder, not Atlanta’s.

Believe it or not, he’s actually been reasonably affordable and productive for Atlanta, from a “wins per dollar” point of view.

Of course, the Braves didn’t sign him as a free agent; they traded for him.

Forget “averaging” for a moment…

The Braves paid Hampton $2 mil in 2003, when he went 14-8. A huge bargain.

Braves paid him $2 mil in ‘04, when he went 13-9; another huge bargain;

Braves paid hm $1.5 mil in ‘05, when he went 5-3 (injury-shortened season - still $1.5 mil for a third of a season aint bad.

In ‘06 and ‘07, he earned $28 mil for rehabbing, not pitching. Ouch. However, the Braves recouped some unknown amount of that in insurance. Let’s guess that we recouped half, so we paid him $14 mil for those two years. (I have no idea about the amount that insurance paid… just guessing).

That means we’ve spent about $19.5 mil for about 2.2 years of actual pitching, and a 32-20 record. Not bad, actually. Not great, but probably “market value” for a good starting pitcher.

Roger Clemens, btw, has made about $30 mil the last 2 years for a 13-12 W-L record. Granted, a victim of poor run support in Houston.

Now, Colorado has paid Hampton $49 mil for a 21-28 record (2001-2002). Not such a good deal. And Florida, god bless’em, has paid him $23.5 million, and he never pitched there. But, they did get Tim Spooneybarger and Juan Pierre out of the whole deal!

Hampton’s injuries have hurt, no doubt, both on the field and in terms of payroll - but it’s not THAT big of a disaster.

Scheurholz’ deal for Hampton ranks right up with the one for Renteria among his best. Absolutely skinned the other guys. A GM can’t be blamed for injuries to a well-conditioned, seemingly healthy player in his prime.

By Braveheart

October 6, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

The SEC East championship comparison fails. The comparable comparison would be the SEC championship. There are 6 major BCS conferences: BIg 10, Big 12, Big East, SEC, ACC, Pac-10. There are 6 divisions in baseball as well.

If the NCAA instituted a playoff system for football where only the 6 major BCS conference champions and 2 wild cards were allowed to make it, then you could start making the comparison.

You might see alot of schools win conference championships all the time but never win the national championship. People would probably be very annoyed and angry with it but getting them to the dance all the time would probably make alot of them happy. Just look at NCAA basketball. So many of the coaches we think are great go to the tournament all the time but never or rarely win it all.

Tom Osborne, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno have had as many or more close but no cigars as Bobby Cox. They’ve won more ultimate championships than Cox but would they have won those if they had to run the gauntlet in a 3 round playoff? Maybe, maybe not.

By Braveheart

October 6, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

Stinky is that your real name?

No, I believe Joba Chamberlain calls him ZuZu.

By woodie

October 6, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

please…no Glavine. Great career but he’s washed up. The Braves need young power pitchers

By Anders

October 6, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

DOB I understand why you would want Glavine back now in a reduced role at a fair price. Personally I think he’s heading down the same path as Mussina. Hot streaks, cold streaks and you never know which you’ll get. I also agree that the deal should happen quickly if at all. Any dancing around tells me that both sides haven’t forgiven and forgotten past transgressions which can’t be a help going forward. That said, I don’t think Glavine moving to the Braves is a major move for division power. I actually believe as the Mets and the Braves are constituted right now the Braves have more upside potential. Mainly because of age, both in a few important everyday positions (1st, left, catching)and the pitching staffs. Where I think the Mets have a huge advantage is in both payroll coming off and additional payroll to be added. I fully expect the Mets to make more than one major move during the off season. There’s no way they’re going to let the major collapse they just had fester. I think they’ll be major players for Santana and maybe even A-Rod. Remember they have a new ballpark opening in 2009 as do the Yankees and unlike many other teams they have to compete in their own market as well as with other in their division. I’m posting this because I think in your blog when you say adding Glavine and another frontline starter will win the East Division title you’re assuming the other teams will just stand pat. Will it make the Braves stronger than last year - yes, will it give them the 2008 division title - time will tell.

By Stinky

October 6, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

I like the ‘ES&D Braves Forum’, Herm.

By brian

October 6, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

Congrats on the football win! I assume it is always a good day when the Jayhawks beat KState

By Herman (The Baseball Man)

October 6, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

But Stinky what does ES&D stand for? Is that a baseball term? Is your real name zu zu? I like that it sounds like a car commercial jingle or a true baseball fan from a far away place.

By the way, I just did some research and found out the Braves were once in Milwaukee!!! Did you know that? Did Ted Turner own them in Milwaukee?

I like Mr. Braveheart he seems to know a lot about sports so let me ask him this - I know a lot about baseball but what does OBP and ERA mean and are they always capitalized? There are so many acronyms in this game we love.

By Efrim

October 6, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Lew

Efrin-Do we really care what the ESPN analysts will say next year? Or any year?

Not the issue. I was refering to what me and KC were talking about. Whether a Braves fan wants to believe it or not, this team will look completely different in 2010. I do not expect John Smoltz, Chipper Jones, John Scherholz and Bobby Cox to be on this team at that point, as well as Tom Glavine, if we sign him. So with that said, 2008, and perhaps 2009, will be the last time THIS Braves team will be able to capture a World Series. It is going to look very different in two years. Very different. So will many teams, but some of the staples of our franchise will be gone in two seasons. So what I meant by the statement was not to say that I care about what ESPN says, but the fact that many analysts/writers will say that this is the LAST go around for THIS Braves team.

By Herman (The Baseball Man)

October 6, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

OH HA HA HA. I just figured out your acronym Mr. Stinky. It is a good one too. ES&D stands for Easy Stats & Distiction. Right? I like it very much it’s nice. Thanks I’ll pass that along to Shaun and see if he likes it too. Mr. Stinky let me ask of you just one more question on baseball - why do so many people use LOL and LMAO and stuff like that? Are they more baseball stat acronyms and what do they mean? There are really lots of acronyms in this game of baseball. Is there a book of baseball slang and acronyms and that kind of thing? Would the public library have one? Your help is appreciated believe me.

Shaun? Are you there what do you think of ES&D? (no offence Stinky but it’s not as clever as the HerShau Blog). Maybe Shaun has a better name after all the blog will be half his so he gets a say in the name.

By mike

October 6, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

How come no one’s talking about the braves going after somebody like an Ian Snell. The Braves wouldnt have to give up nearly as much as they would to get Haren. Kelly Johnson and Chuck James might get it done in a trade for Snell. I disagree about the upside in comparing Escobar and Kelly Johnson. Escobar is a better hitter all around, better fielder, better range, better arm, better hitter in the clutch, better baserunner, highter on base percentage, doesnt strike out nearly as much, can play 3 infield positions, and is younger. As for the power comparison, Kelly Johnson is a better homerun hitter now but whose to say that Ecobar couldnt develop into a 20 homerun guy. He’s got great gap power and he uses the whole field. Betemit was by no means considered a power guy, but he quickly developed into someone capable of 20to 25 hr after a few years 2 seasons in the big leagues.

By Travis

October 6, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

DOB we played against Reesing a couple of times in high school, he is a pretty crafty guy. Could lead ol’ KU to good things.

By KC

October 6, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Steamboat: It’s rare to hear someone actually make sense when they talk about Hampton. You’re one of the few who have actually thought out your opinions on Hampton.

Most people talk about what a terrible acquisition Hampton was for Atlanta… and it’s just not true.

As you said, the blunder was Colorado’s, not Atlanta’s.

The Braves gave up marginal talent for Hampton, and I’m not sure if any of them are even still in the big leagues.

From a financial perspective, the Braves paid him an average of 8 mill per season, with insurance picking up (in all likelyhood) more than half of Hampton’s salary the last couple of years.

While Hampton has been a huge disappointment (because hopes were high for him), he has not been a bad acquisition when you actually pay attention to the facts.

Anyway… again, well said Steamboat.

By Herman (The Baseball Man)

October 6, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

Well I seem to have run off the very people that I was just getting to try and become friends with - Shaun and Mr. Stinky. Sorry fellow bloggers don’t hate me I didn’t mean to stop them they must just be at dinner or something or maybe looking up blog names and stats for more discussion (I set the bar pretty high in that blog name department so it’s going to be tough.

Stinky I will look for you to return so that we can talk again a lot and all night if you want. I’ll return to share baseball stories with you when I see your name here again so I’ll be looking out for you my pal. Shaun just please choose one of the blog names and let me know which one you like. Mr. Stinky suggested ES&D but I like mine better (sorry Stinky but thanks for trying and I appreciate the suggestion it was very nice of you to spend time thinking of it for us).

By Naughty By Nature

October 6, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

what does OBP and ERA mean and are they always capitalized?

Army with harmony, Dave drop a load on ‘em

OBP, how can I explain it, I’ll take you frame by frame it, To have y’all jumpin’ shall we singin’ it, O is for Other, B is for bloggas scratchin’ temple, The last P…well…that’s not that simple, It’s sorta like another way to call a cat a kitten, It’s five little letters that are missin’ here, You get on occassion at the other party, As a game ‘n it seems I gotta start to explainin’, Bust it, You ever had a girl and met her on a nice hello, You get her name and number and then you feelin’ real mellow, You get home, wait a day, he’s what you wanna know about, Then you call up and it’s her girlfriend or her cousin’s house, It’s not a front, F to the R to the O to the N to the T, It’s just her boyfriend’s at her house (Boy, that’s what is scary), It’s OBP, time other people’s what you get it, There’s no room for relationship there’s just room to hit it, How many brothers out there know just what I’m gettin’ at, Who thinks it’s wrong ‘cos I’m splittin’ and co-hittin’ at, Well if you do, that’s OBP and you’re not down with it, But if you don’t, here’s your membership

You down with OBP, Yeah you know me, Who’s down with OBP, Every last homie You down with OBP, Yeah you know me, Who’s down with OBP, All the homies

As for the ladies, OBP means something gifted, The first two letters are the same but the last is something different, It’s the longest, loveliest, lean— I call it the leanest, It’s another five letter word rhymin’ with cleanest and meanest, I won’t get into that, I’ll do it…ah…sorta properly, I say the last P…hmmm…stands for property, Now lady here comes a kiss, blow a kiss back to me, now tell me exactly, Have you ever known a brother who have another like ah girl or wife, And you just had to stop and just ‘cos he look just as nice, You looked at him, he looked at you and you knew right away, That he had someone but he was gonna be yours anyway, You couldn’t be seen with him and honestly you didn’t care, ‘Cos in a room behind a door no one but y’all are there, When y’all are finish, y’all can leave and only y’all would know, And then y’all could throw the skeleton bones right in the closet do’, Now don’t be shocked ‘cos if you’re down I want your hands up high, Say OBP (OBP!), I like to say with pride, Now when you do it, do it well and make sure that it counts, You’re now down with a discount,

You down with OBP, Yeah you know me,
Who’s down with OBP, Every last lady, You down with OBP, Yeah you know me, Who’s down with OBP, All the ladies

By Jared

October 6, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

“The Braves need young power pitchers”

The Braves need starting pitchers who can get guys out, eat innings and keep them in the ballgame. Age and fastball velocity be damned.

By Tyler

October 6, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Dan Haren would be a miracle. If the A’s want to get rid of them then pull the trigger, no matter what (there are limitations though). Escobar, B.Jones and Thorman could do it for sure.

Harden is more likely to be had. Maybe a deal of Prado and B.Jones could get that done.

By fastasballs

October 6, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

College football is looking more & more like March Madness this year. Quite a start to the season.

As far as the NL East goes next year the Phillies should have a ton of money freed up to go after players. The Nats & Fish will be better. The Mets? Who knows, they have a ton of holes to fill & they are an old team. They should have more money to spend than the Braves do, but the Braves & their farm system are loaded with talent. If your team’s needs can’t be filled with free agency then the extra money is useless.

By Steamboat

October 6, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

KC, thanks a lot! It’s a shame how Hampton and JS are trashed over a torn ligament.

mike, I’ve talked about Snell! I don’t know if the Pirates would be dumb enough to trade a young talented starter, but they ARE the Pirates, after all. And they do have a bunch of pitchers who are gonna become arbitration/FA eligible, at about the same time (though not soon), and they probably can’t keep’em all.

My thinking is that they’d like to trade Jack Wilson, their SS who makes a lot of money the next 2 years … for even more prospects. In order to do that, they’d need a replacement at short; and they need hitting.

We might be able to trade Yunel Escobar to them for Snell (with pieces attached to balance out the deal). Would Escobar and Diaz for Snell be a bad deal?

They wouldn’t want Renteria because he makes as much as Wilson. But if they had Yunel, they could trade Wilson for more young talent.

But, they’d be more likely to trade one of the other guys… Maholm, Duke, Gorzelanny … than Snell.

By Robert

October 6, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

“The Braves need starting pitchers who can get guys out, eat innings and keep them in the ballgame. Age and fastball velocity be damned.” Well thats not Galavine. Everyone be damned but Jared, he knows it all. Glad he’s not the GM.

By mike

October 6, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

Steamboat Id go for Esobar and Diaz for Snell if I were Schuerholtz since we have Renteria in 08 and Lillibridge after that but from all indications Escobar is untouchable. I know Im a big fan of the way Escobar plays but I think you have to consider trading him if it means getting a young inexpensive ace with the capabilities of Snell or Matt cain. I bet more folks would be more comfortable packaging Lillibridge in a deal than Escobar.

By Stinky

October 6, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

I heard Dob’s selling Kool-Aid to help finance his buddy Glavine’s return.

By KC

October 6, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Robert: Did I understand you correctly… were you stating that Glavine is NOT a guy who can give you innings and keep you in the ballgame??

If so, I’m afraid the facts don’t support your point of view.

Glavine pitched over 200 innings, and he was 5th in the league in quality starts with 23.

“Quality starts” is a stat that really only tells you one thing… “did the starter keep you in the ballgame?” If a starter pitches at least 6 innings, allowing 3 runs or less… he’s kept you in the game.

Glavine did it 23 times.

By Sherry L.

October 6, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Alan Greenspan (nice name) What the heck does my portfolio have to do with this? It’s a flippin’ game - entertainment! Get over yourself!

By Efrim

October 6, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

If we sign Glavine, the Braves will have 3 of the top 5 starting pitchers in terms of Quality Starts.

Smoltz tied for 2nd with 27

Hudson 4th with 25

Glavine 5th with 23

I like it.

Off the subject, looking at our bullpen next year, I think we could use another set up guy. Someone we could stic

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