AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > September > 30 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThis is it for Bravos, end of the line
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A few observations and facts I consume another grande from the ubiquitous coffee behemoth that has one of its locations in my hotel lobby, before heading across Houston to witness the last game of a season that’s flown by, hasn’t it?
Seriously, it seems like yesterday when I was pulling into Dark Star in the rental sled, settling in for seven weeks of spring training for a season when I was sure the Braves would take back the NL East.
They didn’t. But here we are 7-1/2 months later, after seven weeks of spring training and 161 regular-season games for every team, and still the NL East title hasn’t been won.
Which only makes the Braves’ wasted chances all the more difficult for them to swallow, of course. Folks, this was the year when the Braves could’ve played mediocre and still won the division. Oh, well … water under the bridge.
Moving forward now. Or rather, looking back. Or sidways. Whatever. Before I forget, don’t be surprised if the Braves announce soon that all of their coaches are coming back next season, along with Bobby Cox.
OK, this isn’t going to be a big, definitive anything blog today. No season-in-review. We’ve already done enough of that, haven’t we?
Just a couple things off top of my head as we wind down. (I still have to pack and check out of my hotel in next hour, because I’m going straight from ballpark to airport tonight.)
Willie Harris ain’t the answer: Hopefully any of you who thought he could be the regular center fielder (really, there were some here suggesting that) have seen why that’s not an option. Not even remotely an option.
Dude had a real good season. Surprised us all. Tip of the cap. But it’s been a reality check lately. How does 9-for-82 (.110) average in his past 30 games sound, with seven RBIs, 22 strikeouts, a .202 OBP and .220 slugging percentage.
Not to mention, he has a sub-.200 career average against lefties and one homer in 200 at-bats against them.
Francoeur’s had a second wind down the stretch, hasn’t he? A few weeks ago I figured he was getting too tired to produce much in the latter stages, but he’s hit .310 with three homers, 22 RBIs and a .376 OBP in his past 22 games.
Sure, you want more power from the right fielder, but a .294 average with 40 doubles, 19 homers, 105 RBIs and a .339 OBP that’s up over 40 points from last season? That’ll work for a 23-year-old who’s only going to get better.
I’ll predict at least a .285-30-110 season from him next season.
Andruw’s finish a head-scratcher: I know him and Bobby Cox said Andruw Jones is beat up and no sense in playing these last three games, but really, aren’t you guys a little stunned by the decision? I mean, this is a guy who prided himself on playing almost every day for more than a decade.
And now, in what could be his final three days in a Braves uniform, he’s content to watch from the bench? I mean, it ain’t like he’s protecting a .300 average or anything, either.
Oh, well. Add it to the lifts of life’s mysteries. Way down the list, though.
Chuck’s shoulder: I’m inclined to believe it’s just the typical wear-and-tear and soreness that so many pitchers work through late in a season. But the problem is, I don’t know that Chuck really has an idea what’s acceptable soreness and what’s the kind that should raise a red flag.
And since he doesn’t usually begin his winter throwing program until early January, it would seem like a precautionary MRI should be done just to be on the safe side, right? (Maybe one has been scheduled, and neither Chuck or Cox knew. But I doubt it).
Chipper’s chase: Another head-scratcher, for me, is why he didn’t stay in the games the last two nights and try to get a couple more hits. The way he’s been raking, he had a good chance against Houston pitching to get two or three hits a game, instead of going 1-for-3 and leaving in the sixth inning both nights.
It was Bobby’s call to sub for him, but believe me, if Chipper wanted to stay in, all it would take is for him to tell Bobby he wanted to. No question.
Colorado’s Matt Holliday went 2-for-4 before coming out of his game near the end last night, raising his average to .340, just above Chipper’s .339 entering today.
If Chipper falls a hit short of a batting title….
By the way, it’s startling to see how the disparity has increased in Chipper’s left/right averages, which were really close for a lot of his seasons. Not the past couple, not at all.
This season he’s hit a whopping .382 with an 1.181 OPS vs. righties, and .274 with an .803 OPS vs. lefties.
Last season, he hit .332 with a 1.036 OPS vs. righties, and .293 with an .885 OPS vs. lefties.
But during the 2002-05 seasons, he hit .283 with a .917 OPS vs. righties, and .282 with an .878 OPS vs. lefties.
That’s a very significant change the past couple of seasons.
This season, his average vs. righties leads the majors by a wide margin, but he’s a handful of plate appearances shy of qualifying for the Stats Inc. leader list in that particular category.
That says plenty about the extremely inordinate number of lefties the Braves have faced this season, because Chipper didn’t miss enough games to knock him out of qualifying for any other statistical categories.
Considering how he hit vs. righties, it’s easy to imagine Chipper would’ve hit .345 if this had been a normal season in terms of the breakdown for the Braves against righties and lefties, if they hadn’t faced so many more lefties than any other teams.
My head’s spinning as I try to digest the possible playoff scenarios in the National League going into this final day, when the Braves have been reduced to irrelevance outside our little corner of the baseball world while four other teams fight it out for the final spots in the October tourney.
Oh, well, at least I can gear up for the big Sunflower State showdown next weekend, when my Jayhawks take on the Wildcats of Kansas State, who are coming off a shocking win over Texas.
By the way, I’d like to thank Craig Biggio for picking this year to retire, because it’s made what might have been an otherwise depressing atmosphere at corporate orange-juice ballpark in the last weekend of the season.
I mean, sellout crowds over 40,000 for each of the final three games between the long-dead-in-the-water Astros and recently deceased (in terms of postseason chances) Braves? Very unusual, and good.
Plus, the swag’s been sweet _ three Biggio t-shirt giveaways, one for each of the uniform eras he’s played in with the ‘Stros, from the rainbow-stiped numbers to the forgettable blue/white/gold ensembles of the latter 90s to today’s rather generic red (do half the teams in the majors now have red as a primary color?)
”CHILDISH THINGS” by James McMurtry
Aunt Clara kept her Bible Right next to the phone in case she needed a quote
While she talked to someone
In my memory she smiles While the blessing is said
And visions of freeze tag dance in my head
She says I’ll grow up bigIf I eat all my roast
I’ll still believe in heaven
But I won’t believe in ghosts anymore
I’ll put away childish things
Every other weekend at the age of thirteen
With my fishing pole and my Field and Stream
Ridin’ back home on the Trailways bus
I looked out the window
‘Til I saw too much
And I called my parents by their own first names
I played in the alley
But I didn’t play the game anymore
I put away childish things
The wolves howl all night long
They won’t stop and they won’t go home
Beneath my window they run
Probably it’ll be alright
If I keep it all locked up tight And wait ‘til daylight comes
Now my boy goes like a house on fire
He’ll never burn out and he’ll never retire
And I remember when I used to think like that
When I was young and the world was flat
But I’m forty some years old now and man I don’t care
All I want now is just a comfortable chair
And to sell all my stock
And live on the coast
I don’t believe in heaven
But I still believe in ghosts.
Comments
By Amber
September 30, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this
NOW he sits?!?!?! NOW?????? Bobby let him hurt us all summer, and NOW Andruw sits?? Un-freakin’-believable.
By chrisklob
September 30, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the new blog. The old ones do tend to get a little “stinky” after a few days.
Chipper not playing the whole game the last few days has me scratching my head too. It’s not like they’re giving a recent call-up a chance to show what he can do at the highest level. Is this a decision BC made or Chipper made? If BC made it, is Chipper okay with it? And if so, what’s Chipper thinking? It’s not every year that you have an opportunity to win a batting title!
By Stinky
September 30, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this
Dob, what years did you go to Kansas State?
By Paladin
September 30, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
I have tried not to be a “Bobby Basher” and I’m not going to start now, but his “decisions” of late(particularly)make it difficult. DOB reports that he will be back and we will just have to deal with it. I hope, however, he gets a lot of rest during the off-season.
By Bill Clinton
September 30, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
Amber, I feel your pain.
By Hilary
September 30, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
Bill You keep those meat-hooks to yourself. Amber You go girl, and I mean go!
By Chase
September 30, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this
I hope ANDRUW comes back…He’s a sure fire hall of famer (no matter how his season went this year) and SAVES at least a Run an game!
Just remember Andruw Bashers, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’VE GOT ‘TILL ITS GONE!!!!!!!
He’s gotta at least come out and play today in case it is his last time!
And TO ALL BRAVES FANS:
THEY ARE NOT THAT FAR AWAY! Bring Tommy back, Hampton will be back, and Trade for another starter and the Braves WALK OFF with the Division next year!
If they had TEX all year they’d probably be in the playoffs anyway!
I also would bring back MAHAY! Make DIAZ the everyday left fielder!
Extend TEX at the end of next year or sooner!
Smoltz, Huddy, a decent Hampton, Glavine, and James would most likely be enough to take the East even without a trade for another big name starter!
Go Braves, Go DAWGS, and even the Falcons..SUPPORT THEM GUYS!
By KC
September 30, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this
IS ANDRUW REALLY GONE? Not so fast…
I’ve been convinced like most of you that Andruw is as good as gone. But last night, I started thinking more about something I heard during the SportsSouth post-game show last evening.
Andruw recently stated that he would accept a contract for about 5 years -75 million, to stay here. I heard the 5 year part, but that was the first time I’d hear the 75 part.
Sure, Boras essentially retracted that a few days later, but it seems to me that in this case, it could be posturing on Boras’ part more than anything else.
If the goal were to stay here, but to get as much money in the process as possible… he would tell Andruw to say all the things he’s been saying most of the year. Stuff like “I want fair market value”.
Even if Andruw has told Boras behind the scenes all along that he wants to remain here… can you picture Boras saying anything other than what he’s been saying?? OF COURSE NOT!
I’m not saying Andruw will be back. Certainly not. I still think it’s likely that he’ll be gone… but after hearing that last night, I’m not sure that’s as much of a certainly as it’s widely believed to be.
My point in a nutshell is this…
Boras has had 6 years to talk Andruw into keeping a poker face this time around. So how much stock should we place in what Boras says or in what Andruw has said most of the year, when they’re both going to say the exact same things regardless of what their actual plans are (to stay for a discount or seek top-dollar elsewhere)?
By Dubya
September 30, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
Amber, first you tell Bobby to withdraw the troops then you give him a hard time for withdrawing the troops. Make up your mind.
By Tom Robinson
September 30, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
since Braves fans love to spout consecutive, what is this, the 12th consecutive season without a world series victory? 1996-2007
Bobby Cox is the problem, not the solution
He blew it in 1991 and 1992 with poor decisions. Have you forgotten bringing in Liebrandt to pitch to Kirby Puckett?
the only reason the braves won in 1995 was that Mike Hargrove was, if that is possible, a worse manager for cleveland
By Spider29
September 30, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
I have to say that I am a little surprised at Andruw sitting out the last three games. But more than that I am shocked that Chipper has come out of games early this weekend. How often does a player have a chance to win a batting title? Chipper is 35 years old, not 25 or 30. There might not be many chances left for him. Plus, the race between Chipper and Holliday is so close, one at-bat might make the difference. That said, I am already looking forward to next season. One more good starting pitcher and a little tweaking elsewhere and the Braves are back in post season in 2008.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
September 30, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
I had lots to say the past few days but an intermittent internet connection has saved the blogs from 1000s of useless words, oh well so much for that.
Yes , last game and so many choices as to what to watch today…..
One quick comment about Craig Biggio. I have watched him over the years and have wished many times the Braves had a player of his stripe on our team. I think I have been pretty accurate so far in assessing the talent arriving in Atlanta via Richmond. So this is the deal, if you folks liked Brett Butler or admired Craig Biggio, you are going to love Brent Lillibridge when he hits the Big A….. Same type of player, same presentation, just quality with a capital Q…
Mr. O’Brien sir, Thanks for providing your unique style, talent and observations about the Bravos to the denizens of this blog. I look forward to continued participation in this blog and the discussion relevant topics during the off season.
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Moron, I went to KU, not K-State. And it was in the 1950s, when Wilt was there.
What years did you go to Grand Rapids Community College?
By Braveheart
September 30, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
I’ve lost some respect for Chipper the last 2 nights. Sure, he might be hurting himself. That’s the optimist viewpoint on it. The pessimistic viewpoint is that he is sitting out trying to preserve the batting title. Smoltz was right when he questioned Chipper’s competitive desire back in June. The head of Ted Williams just rolled over in the freezer watching Chipper act like a chicken like Boggs.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 30, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
Shaun, in 1988, Kirk Gibson hit. 290 with 25 home runs and 76 RBIs. He didn’t lead the league in anything except desire to win, which is exactly what the Dodgers did under his leadership. And when the season was done, Gibson was voted the National League’s Most Valuable Player. And no one who could see and appreciate the game of baseball beyond a damn stat sheet questioned it.
Stats alone don’t tell the whole story, Shaun, and they never will. There’s so many things that can’t be quantified that make the difference between a great player and a statistically great player. And you either get it or you don’t.
It’s kind of sad you can’t watch Jimmy Rollins and appreciate ALL he brings to his team, because Rollins definitely is the league MVP.
It’s nothing you can completely quantify, but at the same time, all the numbers and figures in the world can’t refute it. It just is. Open your eyes.
By Amber
September 30, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Dubya, you should know that withdrawing “the troops” too late doesn’t help anyone…
By Steamboat
September 30, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
I still don’t understand why KJ is not a candidate to move to CF. In 2005, in left field, he had a 1.000 fielding percentage (that’s 0 errors) in 79 games in left; his range factor was 2.18, versus a league average of 1.52. And, 6 assists. His arm is strong, he has good speed. Someone said his bat wasn’t strong enough for an outfielder; his bat is a lot better than Mike Cameron’s!
I’d keep Edgar at SS, play Escobar at 2B;
Sign Carlos Silva rather than Tom Glavine. (obviously, let AJ walk). Silva has better numbers and is 28,not 41, and will be around in ‘09, ‘10, ‘11.
Lineup: Escobar, Edgar, Chipper, Tex, Francoeur, McCann, Diaz, KJ; (the 3-4 hitters are switch hitters, then alternate righty-lefty 5-8 - beautiful!).
Rotation: Hudson, Smoltz, Silva, Hampton, James, with Reyes, Bennett, Boyer as emergency starters from the minors.
By chrisklob
September 30, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
I just love it when DOB B-slaps the trolls! LOL!
By Stinky
September 30, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Moron, I went to KU, not K-State. And it was in the 1950s, when Wilt was there. What years did you go to Grand Rapids Community College?
What has Dob got against community colleges?
By KC
September 30, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
Amber… no politics here please.
By Stinky
September 30, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
I guess Dob has a low opinion of Tim Hudson, a Chattahoochee Valley Community College alum.
By beachcomber
September 30, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this
Bring Me The Head - Good analogy on Kirk Gibson in ‘88. Problem is some of our bloggers were seven years old in ‘88. What a year! If the Phillies can pull it off today,there is little doubt who the MVP will be.
Gil - Thank you again for your reports from the “cradle” of our organization. Your comments on Biggio hit the mark.
Saw this guy in spring this year, doing stretches that kids half his age could not do. My only resentment towards him are the four Gold Gloves he owns that should be on Mark Lemke’s mantle but alas, the Lemmer was a .250 hitter and Biggio a .300 hitter in that period - and that often determines who wins the gold glove rather than actual fielding excellence.
By the truth hurts
September 30, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
“Stinky” are you always this stupid or are you making a special effort today?
By The Grinch
September 30, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
Morning, all.
Francisco, you said it all. “…you either get it or you don’t.” Shaun doesn’t get it. You’re about the 15th person this season to carry on this same srgument with him, and every possible absoultely convincing thing has been used to make your point already in about 50 different ways. He’s NEVER going to get it, and you might as well quit wasting your time. Shaun is the rock that many sensible people have broken themselves upon. He will remain long after common sense leaves this earth. The post-apocalyptic landscape will contain Shaun, his protractor, and a %^$#-load of cockroaches, with whom he will explain daily why batting average is irrelevant when evaluating a hitter, players who are great at 27 will suck when they’re 28, and that Ryan Howard is weak. :-)
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Braves just made it official: All the coaches will be back next season.
Teixeira getting his first day off since joining Braves. Thorman’s at first base.
This is not a good lineup today, folks.
For you UGa folks: Your boy Clint Sammons is starting behind the dish today….
Besides McCann, others not in lineup are Andruw (again), Renteria and Kelly (Orr is starting at 2B).
We’re sitting in Cox’s office and the players are coming in, one by one, asking him to sign jerseys and baseballs, etc.
And here comes Soriano with a jersey he wants signed. “Hey, Raffy, you’re unsuspended today!”
There are some funny moments that border on absurdity in this business.
Oh, then an Astros clubhouse guy comes into Cox’s office with a long box. “What’s this?” the manager asks.
“It’s from Biggio,” the guy says.
It was an autographed bat.
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
When Woodward walked by and saw that lineup, he said, “Is this game in Kissimmee or Disney?”
By Lew
September 30, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-Considering Chipper wasn’t even in the lead for the Battting Championship when he sat last night, your theory just doesn’t hold water. By the time he sat, Halladay already had two hits in three AB and had gone ahead in the race by one point. You’re just wrong this time, Dude. That’s all there is to it.
Now Andruw-I’ve always been an Andruw fan. All last year I was dead set against trading him-especially for Cereal Guy, Coco Crisp. However, this year he has made numerous statements that truly make me wonder just where his head is. All season long he’s said things like “Im a pull hitter and that’s all there is to it” or I’ll sit down with film in the offseason and see what I need to correct.” I was extremely puzzled by this attitude-seems to me if something is going wrong, you try to deal with it NOW-not later. Makes sense, right? One would think.
Now I just got my issue of Chop Talk magazine the other day. There was an interview with Andruw, done probably at the beginning of September, or somewhat right before then. In this interview, Patty Rasmussen outright asked Andruw about this season’s struggles and what was wrong. Andruw stated several times that he was getting a steady diet of changeups this year-that pitchers had changed their approach to him-had gone from a steady diet of sliders. He also mentioned several times how he would need to work on this in the offseason.
I sincerely wonder if Andruw even has a clue. This whole attitude is perplexing to me, in a major fashion. Why should anyone think he will change his approach when he took an entire season of underachievement and literally did nothing to fix what was wrong? Is this kind of approach to an ever changing game going to justify even $15 milion per year? Yes, he is an incredible outfielder. Even if he has lost a step, he has gone from Otherworldly to excellent-no doubt. But can we afford to devote that much money for that length of time to someone who steadfastly refuses to change when change is necessary? Can we afford to sign him, or anyone else long term when there are kids on the horizon? After 11 years of facing ML pitching and hitting over 300HR, just why can’t he adjust to a changeup? Answer that question before you commit anywhere near $75 million to a guy bound to not get any better with a totally absurd outlook on what one needs to do to improve.
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Folks, don’t forget, last game to ever hear Skip on TBS today!!! I’ve never taped a game, but I will todays. Doubt I would have become a fan of a last place team in another state if I hadn’t heard Skip and Pete(And Ernie) do the games. Listening to the Cubs game yesterday on WGN reminded me how bad a team can be….Hopefully, what I said above will turn out to not be true, and someday TBS will come to their senses again, and have Skip and Pete doing 140+ games again…and perhaps I will start to flap my arms and fly around town today as well! ;)
By Stinky
September 30, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
The truth is always welcome. Like the truth that reveals itself in a Freudian slip. Or two.
By The Grinch
September 30, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
Thanks for reminding me, DOB.
WOOF! WOOF! WOOF! WOOF! WOOF! WOOF!
That was for our 45-17 pasting of Ol’ Miss yesterday, who came within 7 of beating Florida the previous week.
And Woodward has no business making jokes about a weak lineup. :-)
By Paladin
September 30, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
This is a split-squad game, right?
By keylargo25
September 30, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
MARLINS 4 Mets 0
By True Braves Fan
September 30, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Bravehart: If Chipper were “chicken”, he would have sat the last three games to preserve his average.
By Overlord
September 30, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
There goes muts season……….4 against glavine and they are still hitting, huge hole!!!!!!!!!!!
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
Uh-oh…Glavine has given up 4 in the first….wonder if the Phillies will lose as well????
By Edgar
September 30, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
Man,the Muts and Glavine are getting Rocked. 4-0 in the 1st.
By Steamboat
September 30, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
Glavine gives up 4 in the 1st. Go Phillies!
And, I understand billion-dollar contracts and all (well, I understand that they exist), but with all that hinges on today’s MLB action, how can ESPN be running women’s bowling; and ESPN2 Hunting Shows.
Shouldn’t there be some flexibility for them to pick up a day like this, maybe do a “split broadcast” or something?
By Overlord
September 30, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
I have told you guys………. big mistake bringing TG back to atlanta, nats got to him, he wont get out of the 1st inning…….. this is not a good choice, only if he is 3rd starter.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
September 30, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
Well, lets all hope the Phillies don’t play tight today and beat the Nats while the Mets do what they do best and choke against the Marlins. If both teams win today and have to play a playoff tomorrow the edge will definitely go to the Phillies. The Mets would have to pitch Pelphrey or El Duque I suppose. Glavine pitches today while Maine pitched yesterday and Pedro pitched on Thursday. Can’t imagine they would bring back the “savior” on three days rest.
Honestly, the Phils are in the drivers seat. The Mets definitely have the tougher pitcher to face with Dontrelle going for the Fish. Sure, he has had a horrible season but this is the kind of game he gets up for. If both teams lose, the Phils win the division because of the tiebreaker. The only way they play a playoff game tomorrow is if the Pads lose and they along with the Rockies win.
My dream scenario would be for the Phils to win today and watch the Mets finish off their unprecedent self-destruction, while the Pads lose and the Rockies win forcing a playoff tomorrow. In a one game playoff with that game being at Coors I think the Rocks have the decided advantage. Besides I think the Pads are playing a dangerous game not starting Peavy today to protect against a possible playoff. To me that is almost like playing not to lose. They should start Peavy today and finish the Brewers off. Peavy is a stud but Coors field can make the best of pitchers look like independent league rejects. Bud Black may very well live to regret his decision.
By keylargo25
September 30, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
MARLINS 5 Mets 0 Bases loaded Sosa coming in to pitch.
By Steamboat
September 30, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this
Glavine is self-destructing; 2 walks, a throwing error, and just hit the pitcher with the bases loaded - and they’re still in the 1st!
By Paladin
September 30, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
Petrino better “forgive” Hall, soon! His replacement just got toasted.
By flange1
September 30, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
5-0 Marlins,
Glavine just hit Willis and was pulled for SOSA!!!
Go Fish!
By jim
September 30, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
For those bloggers wanting Leo to be back as pitching coach, consider these facts about the Baltimore pitching staff:
Chris Ray and Danys Baez out for the year (and most of next year) with Tommy John surgery.
Adam Loewen out for the year and next year with career threatening injury to his arm.
Bedard shut down for the last month and 1/2 of the season with a dead arm.
Cabrerra made no progress in his 2 years with Leo.
None of the Rookie pitchers have developed to become productive major leaguers.
My guess is that there will be additional house-cleaning done in Baltimore this winter and that Leo will be gone. Do you really want him back?
By Baseball Fanatic (Go Braves!)
September 30, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
Man…Glavine really had fun today…1/3 of an inning and 5 runs…
By Edgar
September 30, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
WOW!!!!!Glavine only got 1 out, 5-0,Sosa In. Hahahahahaha!!!!!
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
Looks like Tommy G. is out of gas, getting whacked around mercilessly by the Marlins.
By Randy
September 30, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
If the Mets don’t make the playoffs, it’s hard to believe that Glavine will let his last appearance on the mound be a 1/3 of an inning, 5 run (so far) outing, leaving to boos from the home crowd. Gotta think he’ll be back if they don’t make the playoffs. Obviously that decision is way off, but wow. just wow, glavine.
By beachcomber
September 30, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
Berigan - Your comments on today’s final game - thanks for saying so well what so many of us feel.
Yes there was a time when the Braves had players named Oberkfell, Puleo, Tepedino and Sugar Bear Banks - but those guys on TBS made it entertaining despite the 100 loss seasons.
By keylargo25
September 30, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
Marlins 7 Mets 0
By Lew
September 30, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
7-0 Marlins in the first. Glavine gave up 5 hits and two walks in 1/3 of an inning pitched. Are we sure Glavine is the answer to our problems? Maybe he’s ouit of gas like DOB said, but damn-1/3 of an inning and he’s gone? Oh, the Humanity-or lack thereof.
By jim
September 30, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
It looks like Glavine will be run out of town in NY after today.
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Grinch,
Interesting article with Andruw’s comments. I don’t know about the change-up comments. Change-ups from righties tend to break down, or back over the plate from righties, to righties, right??? I saw nothing but sliders move away from him it seems, that he lunged for and missed. I have read that Manny Ramirez has a pitching machine that throws nothing but sliders, since he feels that is the toughest pitch to hit…if even Manny gets it, why doesn’t Andruw??? and why does his terrible AB’s, that clearly cost the team the division…why is there endless compassion for him???? I don’t mean from us, yeah, we can remember how great he was in the past, and wish him well in the future..but the organization, Bobby… A leftie walks a few guys, out of here…strike out time after time with runners on…hitting HALF your weight with RISP 2nd half…who cares??? We want you back!!!
Oh crap, Mets down 7 nothing!!!!!!!! Glavine out after getting 1 out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By ernesto
September 30, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
7-0, Fish. Sosa came in witha gas can for the Mets.
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
Jim, it doesn’t really matter if anyone wants him back, since Braves just renewed contracts of all their coaches.
Damn, Tom’s performance today is even worse than his work in the 2002 division series vs. San Fran and 2000 vs. St. Louis. Yikes.
By Chop Chop
September 30, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
Looks like today might give Tom Terrific all the reason he needs to get the hell out of the Big Apple. Of course, if he pitches like that when the chips are down, do we really want the guy?
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
Grinch, good point on the Woodward comment. Imagine if his name were in it instead of, say, Escobar’s? It’d be an injustice to Biggio in his final game.
By Stinky
September 30, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
Tom Glavine’s finally paying dividends for Braves fans in the new millenium.
By jim
September 30, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
When it was said there was no starting pitching available at the trading deadline, we were overlooking Joel Pinero — a guy (like Oliver Perez last year) who has good stuff and had success a couple of years ago that with a change of scenery could revive his career. He (along with J C Romero) were available for little more than a Kyle Davies and could have helped our rotation (and pen) this year, and could have provided a missing piece for the rotation cheaply next year.
Tex has been a great pick-up, but what is the team’s record before and after the Tex trade? We still didn’t play well enough to make the post-season and the suggestion that if he were here for the entire year we would be in the playoffs may be too much of a stretch.
By Braves20
September 30, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
Maybe Leo could find work in New York working for the new manager there. Anybody else old enough to remember Gene Mauch?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
September 30, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
Oh happy day, oh happy day!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Mets are getting their arses handed to them 7-1. Glavine choked and so are the “Amazins”. This almost completely makes up for the Braves not getting in. Besides, the Braves didn’t choke like this.
Where are all our Mets brethern. They have inconspicuously quiet today and the last few days. David Wright for MVP? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!
By Bob, Journalist
September 30, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
All the coaches will be back next season … beauty is in the eye of the beholder but does this mean another season of Business Baseball guided by the same conventional wisdom … the same level of team preparation, and the same tails wagging the dog?
By Dr. Jay
September 30, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
I know, on balance, Glavine is still a quality pitcher, but I sure hope this meltdown today will stick in the minds of the honchos at Liberty Media, as well as the Braves front office. If he could be had for a reasonable amount next year, great. But he’ll want the moon, as usual. He’s just not the answer. His baseball karma is completely used up…
By Greg in TN
September 30, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Afternoon folks…
A quick thought or two before going over to a friend’s place to watch Skip for the last time.
As I’ve mentioned before, I think Frenchy is on track to be an excellent hitter and I’m not concerned with his power numbers this year. The guy is still learning his craft and has tremendous upside. I think your projections for next season are right in line for what we can expect, oh notorious one.
I hope Chipper is able to pull out the batting title over Matt Holliday today and I’ll be pulling for him to do so.
Wow, the amazin’ mediocres are indeed showing the same fight and moxie that they have the last few weeks eh No Chop? No Chop? Ummm, No Chop? Are you there? Hello? Hello? No Chop???
By Lew
September 30, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
Berigan-Actually, I cited the article. Here’s what was said-
ChopTalk-If you could go back and start this season all over again, what would you do differently?
AJ-….I’m going to be working on some specific things that I’ve seen pitchers do differently toward me. They’ve pitched me totally differently this year than last year and the year before. They’ve made adjustments to me so I need to make more adjustments to them.
CT-How are they pitching you differently this year?
AJ- I was getting a lot of changeups. Normally I get sliders. Now I have to be aware of that and make those adjustments, and I have to be ready for whatever else they’re going to give me next season.
CT-You always look so carefree. Did this season bother you?
AJ-It did, but in a way it didn’t. I know I’m better than what I showed and I know I’ll do better. The season was one of those things that went one way and you’re wishing it didn’t. I just don’t make excuses. I’m putting it behind me and looking toward the next season.
You know, I hit 51 HR, but the year before that I hit 29. I know what I did wrong and went to work on it, came out and had a great year. In 2006, I didn’t hit 50 Home Runs, but I did okay-I hit 41. The pitchers are going to keep making adjustments and it’s up to me to keep learning them. One year you might get all sliders, one after the other. every pitcher was throwing sliders, so you make the adjustment to sliders. Now they’re throwing change ups and I have to adjust to that.
Andruw-One further question from a fan-Just WHEN do you make these adjustments? Once a year? Do we want to spend $75 million for this type of attitude? Is it really worth it?
By David O'Brien
September 30, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
They’re having an emotional send-off for Biggio, a presentation on the field. And on top step of Braves dugout, watching intently and applauding, is Chipper. When Biggio brought his daughter out to throw out the first pitch, Chipper was smiling.
I’m wondering what’s going through his mind, and through minds of Smoltz and, yes, Andruw.
If you’re Chipper and Smoltz, and don’t have too many years left, you’ve gotta be thinking, I cannot pass up the opportunity to have something like this. Because they certainly will do something like this for each of them if they retire as Braves, spend their whole careers there.
If you were them, don’t you think it’d be worth potentially sacrificing a little money, if necessary, when it’s time to negotiate those last contracts, if you get a chance to stay with the Braves? If you’re here and you see the outpouring of emotion for Biggio the past three days, the sellout crowds, I’d think you’d have to be feeling that way. It’s been pretty special, I’m tell you.
By Anders
September 30, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
KC Still want Glavine? Told you last night this guy is finished. My biggest fear is he takes the players option for $13 mil next year and stays with the Mets. That’s what you Brave fans should hope for - Not to get him back at a bargain rate.
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Ya know, I think Roger Clemens given us the model 40-plus pitchers like Smoltz and Glavine should follow.
It’s tough on guys in their 40’s to throw 200-plus innings and still have something left in the last few weeks of the season and in October.
I know this will never happen… but if it were up to me, Smoltz would start his season in May next year. And if we signed Glavine, it would be the same thing there.
Give Reyes and Bennett a chance to show what they can do in April, and crank the old guys up at the beginning of May.
By LT (double A blogger)
September 30, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
Hey, where is Metropolitan Man or the Mets Drools guy when you need them?
Let’s discuss the monumental melt down of the Mets. Of course Met man, Willie Randolf is a much better manager the BC now isn’t he.
I know this is lame but I don’t care:)
Cost of new Mark Texeria T shirt to replace AJ - $23.00
Cost to last home Braves game of season for family- $150.
Cost of Mets blowing a 7 game lead with 3 wks left in the season- $Priceless
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop,
To be fair to Glavine, last year in the playoffs, Glavine was THE reason they got into the NL championship series. He pitched 6 shutout innings against the dodgers, and had a 2.45 ERA in 11 innings against the eventual WS champ Cards. But, just like Maddux, if guys go the other way, and are patient, they can be hit….its why guys like Smoltz, and Beckett are the guys who do so well in the playoffs….speed’s where it’s at Daddy’O and you know it!
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this
I know, on balance, Glavine is still a quality pitcher, but I sure hope this meltdown today will stick in the minds of the honchos at Liberty Media, as well as the Braves front office. If he could be had for a reasonable amount next year, great. But he’ll want the moon, as usual. He’s just not the answer. His baseball karma is completely used up…
Dr. J: The honchos at Liberty Media are completely irrelevant. They have absolutely nothing to do with operations in terms of what the Braves roster will look like. That has been left entirely in the capable hands of the Braves front office.
As for Glavine… as I pointed out in my last post, if you look at Smoltz’s last start and Glavine’s recent performance… to me it says teams should start these 40-plus guys later in the season, or keep them on a tight pitch count most of the year.
It does look like Glavine’s out of gas.
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Sorry about that!!! Don’t know how I thought it was Grinch, though I often confuse you two! ;)
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
I know, on balance, Glavine is still a quality pitcher, but I sure hope this meltdown today will stick in the minds of the honchos at Liberty Media, as well as the Braves front office. If he could be had for a reasonable amount next year, great. But he’ll want the moon, as usual. He’s just not the answer. His baseball karma is completely used up…
Dr. J: The honchos at Liberty Media are completely irrelevant. They have absolutely nothing to do with operations in terms of what the Braves roster will look like. That has been left entirely in the capable hands of the Braves front office.
As for Glavine… as I pointed out in my last post, if you look at Smoltz’s last start and Glavine’s recent performance… to me it says teams should start these 40-plus guys later in the season, or keep them on a tight pitch count most of the year.
It does look like Glavine’s out of gas.
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
Anders: Well, I want Santana… but Glavine is a helluva lot better over the course of the season than Buddy Carlyle. Don’t you think?
Remember, we’re talking about Glavine replacing array of horrible starters we’ve had at the back-end of the rotation this year.
Again, I think these 40-plus guys should not be asked to pitch over 200 innings in the regular season. It’s not smart. You need those guys to be sharp down the stretch.
By Paladin
September 30, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
Lew Berigan confusing you and Grinch? Are you going to take that? :>)
By keylargo25
September 30, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this
Please don’t let your kids watch the Mets/Marlins game with Willis and now El Dueque pitching. The kids might pick up one of those pitching motions! Wow - these are the two wierdest windups in MLB.
By The Grinch
September 30, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
Allow me to be Brad Pitt in “Legends of the Fall” for a moment…
Berigan, I will forgive you for saying that once. ONCE! You say that again and you are no longer my brother.
Later, all; down to the local watering hole to watch my Falcons finish off Houston (knock on wood).
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
Doesn’t Hunter Pence seem like the Astro’s version of Frenchy???? Wide eyed, full of energy???? A bit awkward??
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
Sorry, I meant to place the first part of my 2:15 post in quotations. That was Dr. J’s post.
By brent a.
September 30, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
When Smoltz pitches his final home game - if it’s with the Braves - I’ll be there. And I hope it’s bigger than anything Craig Biggio got, certainly. In fact, I hope it borders on Lou Gehrig day, and that the Braves fans show up to show their support.
I’ll never forget the day he was traded to the Braves, and I want to be there for the end of it.
As far as Glavine goes. Boy, today he is reminding me of why it wasn’t so hard to let him go. Tommy was great. But, his “big game” pitching (see: 2002 play-offs) sure seems to have fallen way off from the ‘95 World Series.
And of course it would. But still, hinging our hopes on him just might not be the best decision. Then again, what are the alternatives for next season?
By Gil in Mechanicsville
September 30, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
It’s funny how Buddy always seems to have trouble in the first inning. Something for him to work on for next season. Personal feeling is he will not be prominent in the Braves plans for next season. Good luck Buddy, I hope you like your new team.
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
KC,
That’s not a bad idea to have the older guys start in May, but it will never happen. Next year, if the bullpen is even better, we should shave an inning off a start for Smoltz. What would be the point of getting to the playoffs, if Smoltz, competitor that he is, isn’t top notch????
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Thorman walked!!! First time since 2005!!! ;)
By Amber
September 30, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
*By KC
September 30, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
Amber… no politics here please.*
Thanks for the reminder and all, but you might want to read the previous posts before commenting. I was responding to this:
By Dubya
*September 30, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
Amber, first you tell Bobby to withdraw the troops then you give him a hard time for withdrawing the troops. Make up your mind.*
By chrisklob
September 30, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
Just got back in from running a couple of errands and was listening to the game on the radio. The guys were talking about today’s home plate umpire, Angel Hernandez. They absolutely crucified him, calling him the worst umpire in the game. Then they told the story about how earlier this season he lost track of the count and the batter got an extra pitch which he hit out! How does this guy keep his job?
By Steamboat
September 30, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
So for May ‘08, we’ve got Smoltz and Glavine sitting on the bench (making a collective $24 million); James, Bennett and Reyes starting 3 of every 5 games; and a 5-man bullpen (because Smoltz and Glavine are taking 2 roster spots, unless we’re gonna send them to Richmond)?
Why don’t we just look for pitchers who can pitch a full season instead?
By beki
September 30, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
I remember an interview that TG did earlier this year in which he said that if the Mets go to the World Series,he’d retire;if not, he’d be back.He’s gonna be back with the Mets;unless the Braves offer him a good one-year deal.Did anyone hear Skip’s song about the Mets? I want the words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
Berigan: “What would be the point of getting to the playoffs, if Smoltz, competitor that he is, isn’t top notch????”
EXACTLY!!!!! I agree the starting in May thing will never happen. I do hope, as you say, that BC will cut back on Smoltzy’s innings. If Glavine comes back… same thing.
By Steamboat
September 30, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
that’s April, 08, not May. But still…
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
Anders and other Mets fans:
It would be very ironic if Glavine doesn return to Atlanta… because he’d be leaving NY on exactly the same note he left Atlanta on after that 2002 NLDS meltdown.
BUT… he went on to give you guys some pretty good years, and I suspect he’s got at least one more good one left in him.
Again though… gotta keep the innings pitched down for these old guys so they can be sharp in September and October.
By Stinky
September 30, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Some really touching father and son banter going on between Chip and what’s his name.
By Robert
September 30, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
The 3-4-5 spots were not very good. There is no denying it. And yes, it’s just hard to overcome that 6-plus era deal from the back of the rotation.
So the Braves nation comes to the conclusion that the starting pitching was the problem. Another quality starter, and we’d have gotten into the playoffs.
But then you also have this issue with the failed “clutch” peformances. All those times where the Braves seemed to be getting something started in a close-and-late game and ended up not making enough (or anything at all) of the opportunity.
What are we gonna finish - four games out of a playoff spot? Think that we just mighta won four more games if somehow we hadnt blown all them opportunites. (nod your heads up and down, cuz the answer is yes)
So, the PROBLEM, folks, is that this team was in fact good enough to make the playoffs, but wouldve needed another starter in order to do so.
The REASON is that the hitting didnt get things done in some key situations.
Of course, at this point, there are several geniuses who are thinking, well now, if we’d have had taht other good starter AND another hitter …
But wait a minute - WHY did the hitting not get it done when it needed to so many times, despite the hitting stats being really good?
OBVIOUSLY, whoever is deciding how the pieces are being used, and what strategy is being used, and what is being to done to maximize execution, is NOT doing a very good job. (in fact, doing a p**-POOR job.
This has nothing to do with awards, or playoff streaks. Guess what folks, if you look back at those teams that made the playoffs however many years in a row, they had more startin g pitching, and we already have conceded that more starting pitching equals more wins. Not rocket science
In some years past, the team has made the playoffs, but the relief pitching wasnt good enough, or there was bad luck. But if you look close, again there were missed opportunities - little things.
Every year,you could take the Braves (or any team for that matter) and say, well, they went so far, and if only they had had more of _ (starting pitching, quality relieving, clutch hitting, items on the buffet - pick your choice) then they coulda gone further than they did
But with the Braves, this kind of analysis has CONSISTANTLY helped us avoid seeing or dealing with the fact that their underlying problem has been -
LESS FROM MORE - which is what oughta be written on Bobby Cox’s tombstone
(these days it’s less from not so much, so they get to the cusp of the playoffs instead of in - hope it never gets to less from less because then it wont be fun to watch at all)
By Paladin
September 30, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Amber You go girl! Actually, KC doesn’t want anybody to say anything since it interrupts him.
By //////////Berigan\\\\\\\\\\
September 30, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
Grinch,
Last game of the year, last game for Skip on TBS, and you are going to some bar to watch some steroid enraged players still lose to a team that didn’t exist 10 years ago??? Some fan you are!!!! ;)
By keylargo25
September 30, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
You know the Mets are feeling the pressure. 8 men left on base after three innings! No one can get that clutch hit. Marlins 7 Mets 1
By Steve from OH
September 30, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
Chris Klob:
I believe he may have some photos similar to those currently in Chris Woodward’s posession…
By Braveheart
September 30, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
Hey, Lew, by now, people should know I don’t like Chipper bashing.
But what the hell is up with the sitting down the last 2 nights? It makes zero sense. He’s either trying to preserve his batting title before his average falls too far or even worse he is quitting just short of finishing the drill - something this team led by this superstar has done for 12 seasons in a row now.
Some might say, as great as Chipper is, Chipper sitting down the last two nights says volumes about why this team has fallen short for 12 seasons under the leadership or lack thereof of the best player on the team.
Again, I hate people who say these kinds of things but the man did sit the 3 fateful games against the Mets and then is quitting before finishing the drill with his batting title.
What, somehow healthy for six innings on Friday night, not healthy for the last 3 then suddenly healthy again for 6 the next day but yet again suddenly not for the last 3 innings. That’s weak. That’s not a battler. But, sadly, that’s Chipper and that’s the Braves.
I’m only saying this because I am bitterly disappointed in him right now because I have more respect for him than anyone. But, right now, it looks like Smoltz was exactly right about Chipper back in June. What a shame.
By Paladin
September 30, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
3 - 1 Phillies in the 5th.
By Robert
September 30, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
Ok - DOB you had me. I came in and posted first, and then started scrolling thru some recent posts without reading from the top of the article, and got to I that thing about all coaches being back and then players streaming in to get autographs and Biggio sending an autographed bat -
and my heart was pounding, and I was like, — is it possible? and looking back to see if I missed some news that wouldve been music to my ears
But alas, there will be yet one more season of pain
But already my friends, I am thinking of the bottle of champagne I might be popping and the big cigar I might just smoke (even tho I dont smoke cigars) this very day next September
By KC
September 30, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Paladin, my, my… did I pee in your cheerios? What has you in such a foul mood today?? Oh… wait, never mind.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
September 30, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Maybe Buddy Carlyle should run more laps or something to take the edge off before he starts. He really pitches differently after the first inning.
By Overlord
September 30, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Why are you guys talking about bringing Glaviene back? And them some say we have to keep smoltz and glavine IP. Then again you have to keep Hampton IP down as well because his arm is 35 and postop. Then James will keep his IP down by himself (5IP per game), so what are we talking here? who is gonna pitch half of innings next season? bullpen? better get some 5 villareals then.
hey muts fans it would be funny that u used 2 exbraves pitchers in the 1st inning to put the last nails on your own coffin, maybe it was just payback time for hampton and woodward costing us so much this year.