Braves

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

First!

By ssiscribe

September 19, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

The Grinch is first … can the Scribe be second?

—30—

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Grinch finally won something. :>)

By ssiscribe

September 19, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

OK, denizens, two of the vets of the Braves/MIB have set the table at first and second. Time for you good folks to get after it.

12 days until Vegas. Ahhhhhhhh …

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

I think if Teixeira’s not here, the Braves are already mathematically eliminated or closer to it than they are now. If you’re just looking at how players who were traded have performed, I think you have to argue the Teixeira trade is number one by far.

By raindawg722

September 19, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

I know he’s just about gone but I cannot picture Andruw in another uniform.

By D-rock

September 19, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

I thought the same thing with that catch last night, outstanding. We’ll miss that if he leaves for greener pastures; so will the pitching staff. I thought jojo looked ok last night, but was just a hair away for giving up some crooked numbers. He was going deep into every count as Bobby said.

By Thrillhouse44

September 19, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

I’d still make the Tex deal.

By Thrillhouse44

September 19, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

I just hope Andruw doesn’t stay in the NL. It’d be tough to see him robbing the Braves of doubles.

By Lee in S. GA

September 19, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

If we had not traded for Tex we would just have another problem on our hands next season. That would be having to sign or acquire a 1st baseman. Needless to say determining who would be our cleanup batter also. Salty was blocked at catcher also. Just shows how hard it is to obtain a good pitcher via a trade these days.

Glad Skip is back and doing o.k. Glad he is doing the last TBS broadcast of the Braves regular season games.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

No, the Tex trade did not work out just as we would have liked. But, next year it will have a very positive effect.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

TBS without the Braves will be like Stone Mountain Park without the rock.

By OrlandoFan

September 19, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Anyone got the clip of Andruw’s catch? I missed it.

By Renegator

September 19, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

True Tex has done everything we Braves fans could have asked. Unfortunately, he can’t overcome poor situational hitting by other players on the team and poor pitching.

While Tex has been everything we could have hoped - Mahay has absolutely exceeded my expectations. He has been amazing. I hope the Braves make an effort to re-sign him next year. It seems like he has pitched in every game since the deadline.

By Renegator

September 19, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Caroll:

Was the Dotel for Davies trade on the list of biggest dud trades? What did he pitch in - 3 games for us? Talk about a dud move.

By Jim

September 19, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Just thinking outside the box for a minute, but I would like the Braves to consider adding Glavine this winter and then going to a 6-man rotation. If major changes to the rotation do not occur over the winter and we can add another veteran like Glavine, then our starters would include a 40+ year old John Smoltz, a 40+ year old Tom Glavine, a slightly built Tim Hudson who seems to have tired during a critical stretch in late August, Hampton returning from 2 elbow surgeries, Chuck James who throws a lot of pitches/start and developed a tired arm at the end of July, and Jo Jo Reyes who is working his way into the majors. All of the above could be helped by the extra rest, and adding a veteran like Glavine with a very easy delivery would weaken the Mets, help young lefties like Reyes and particularly James, and provide a bridge to the time when people like Hanson and Rohrbaugh might be ready to contribute. Glavine would not cost as much as other top-line free agents, given the circumstances; and it is unlikely that the Braves would be able to get and pay a better top of the rotation starter via a trade. A six-man rotation for an aging and maturing pitching staff makes a lot of sense and if we were to make the playoffs, people like Smoltz, Hudson, and Glavine would be a lot more rested and ready to make a more significant contribution.

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

OK, I’m back for a moment. Paladin, yes, I won a date with Carroll. Unfortunately, she’s not aware of it yet. :-)

I would do the Tex trade again in a heartbeat. Our failure was definitely not his fault, and we’ll assuredly need him next year, especially if we lose Andruw. There wasn’t much available in the way of pitching, and Tex made this team much more exciting than it would have been.

Scribe, I’m afraid I can’t let you go to Vegas alone. You got room in the trunk?

By Lew

September 19, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun-From the other blog-I would have replied earlier if my server hadn’t gone down. First, I’m not angry. Second, you telling ME to chill out? Let’s get real here. Now you mentioned Corriea as an alternative to trade for. The guy has done quite well-no doubt. However, he’s a reliever and has only started a couple of games. That’s all fine and well, but we need PROVEN starter/s who can eat innings. We need one (or two) now, not in a couple of years-unless you’re willing to concede another year out o the running. Now Carroll has told you. DOB has told you. JS has told you. They tried to get a good pitcher at the deadline and no one bit or asked for way more than the Braves were willing to pay. They even (if reports are true) offered Renteria as part of a package. What makes you think teams will all of a sudden change their minds in the offseason, especially now that Salty, et al, no longer can be used as trade bait?

Like I’ve been saying all along. We’re going to lose Andruw. We can’t afford to lose more offense-especially without getting comparable pitching-which just doesn’t seem likely. What I would do is to make a trade not involving Renteria for a serviceable journeyman pitcher (we do still have trade pieces in the minors) or try to get a lesser free agent. Yes, I know they are expensive. However, even if the loss of Andruw/Wicky’s salaries are just a wash financially, I’m pretty sure, by all indications, that Liberty will boost $$$ at least enough to get a pitcher like I described above. Check out the lower Braves farm system. All we need to do is hang in for a couple of years. The Braves have some studs coming up in a year or two.

We have outfield options and with Lillibridge, Pena and Prado, we have a better bench than we have now. All I was asking (and I really don’t care to get into another of your day long arguments) who might be available-I just don’t see much in the NL. No one has answered that yet, or talked about the AL, short of the White Sox.

By Rodger

September 19, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Heard Skip on the game Monday nite say something, don’t remember what, but with his usual dry humor towards something obvious, and told my wife “that’s something only Skip would, or could, say”. With the TBS era coming to an end, as well as the Smoltz/playoff run, we Braves fans are getting one cold slap after another.

Have to say, watching Diaz recently, that Magellan must have some updated maps, because he’s been looking quite good in LF. What we’re going to do with B. Jones is going to be interesting. (Sorry TenPaul-no ABC in 08!)

By Lew

September 19, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

The way you need to look at Tex is this-we had a definite 1B problem-offensively and defensively-and Tex remedied that situation. Look what his presence does for Chipper by hitting behind him. If he had done so all year, instead of Andruw, Chipper would be leading the league by 30 points. We got him as much for next year as this. Just because the pitching hasn’t held up doesn’t mean this was a bad deal. Besides, like was mentioned above. We got Mahay-who I hope we resign.

By Jim

September 19, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Glad Skip will be back for the last telecast on TBS — They should also bring in Pete for at least an inning and have Ernie Johnson show up in the booth for a brief chat if he is able for it. Losing TBS, and the 750 radio station before it, closes the last window I have for viewing my favorite team on a (semi) regular basis. May Time-Warner executives be locked in the company vault with no chance for parole!!!

By DAP

September 19, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

jim a 6 man wont work because the bullpen will be short and also, i dont want to go 5 games between starts of smoltz and hudson. why limit the starts of your best pitchers? they are not over worked from a 5 man rotation.

also, hudson hasnt tired. he just got the braves thier first complete game a couple of days ago. hes fine.

By gotigers72

September 19, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

I’m pulling for one of the Braves [Edgar or Chipper]to win the batting title. Probably a little more for Chipper since he’s been a Brave longer.

I just think the batting title, HR title and RBI title are special things to have on your record when you decide to hang ‘em up. As a pitcher, the ERA title, strikeout title and most wins title would be special. Smoltz has one of those [most wins in ‘96]. Did Chipper win the HR title the year he was MVP?

By 3trees

September 19, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Hey folks. All the best to those that are hurting or loved ones who are.

Tell me defense isn’t as exciting as the long ball. That was a fun game to watch because of it. Diaz, Andruw, Yunel, Tex, Chipper even made a nice play.

I know I harp on it, but I’d really hate to see Edgar go. Did anyone see the first successful Braves bunt in how long last night? And he didn’t telegraph it like so many. Dude is a PRO ballplayer. MAYBE they can keep him, but pitching (as well noted) is the key. Question is, will they know which tree to shake to find it?

Its been a decent season with some progression in some areas. Still a pretty young team. Hopefully, some consistency will be part of the next progression.

Going to see Dylan & Costello in Gwinnett. Anyone been there yet? We’re suppose to have good seats. Seen Costello quite a bit, but I’ve never (I can’t beleive it) seen Bobby.

Go Braves!

By Lew

September 19, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

DAP-The other night during Hudson’s start, Joe Simpson brought up an interesting stat. When Hudson pitches on 5 as opposed to four days rest (which is what would happen in a 6 man rotation), Hudson’s ERA drops 2 full points to about 1.77. Smoltz would benefit as well, given his shoulder problems. With 5 days rest, Buddy Carlyle also becomes considerably more effective (stats were cited here, as well). Now I’m not advocating the change, but there is merit to it.

By moonshiner snuffy smith

September 19, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

you folks are like kin to me imagine posting with no capital letters or punk-siation spellin who cares about spellin ye ha

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 19, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

Glad to hear Skip will be back in the booth soon. I had noticed the last few weeks that his voice sounded funny, something wasn’t right, but didn’t know it was heart related. It will be very strange one day to hear a braves game without Skip and Pete. Weird to not hear them now when watching a game on TV…..

By Carolina Gent

September 19, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Caroll, or any one else out there in blogger-land who knows (or thinks the know) the answer to this: with TBS not doing the Braves next year, are Fox Sports Net and Sports South going to carry more Braves games so that we non-Atlantans can still get our nightly Braves fix? Or is that Peachtree network gonna be seen outside the local area? Or do I just have to suffer without the TV and sit in my car every night enjoying listening to Pete and Skip? Also, for my 2 cents worth, add me to the list of those who suggest trading ER for a middle-of-the-rotation pitcher. Maybe ER and Prado for a #3 starter. Would hate to lose ER, but you’ve got to give quality to get quality and he’ll never be better trade material than after this year. No way we should expect anything from Hampton after being away for 2 years and 2 surgeries. If he contributes, awesome! But to expect it would be a big mistake. Bring back Glavine! Let’s not do a 6-man rotation, but bolster up the ‘pen a bit more. You always need some innings-eaters out there for you number 4-5 guys.

By DAP

September 19, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

how about snell or gorzelany from the pirates? they need good players basically everywhere. theyre young enough, just not good enough!

By Jim

September 19, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

I agree with DOB that Escobar has to play regularly, and I like the long-term prospect of KJ. I think he will improve his defense at 2B as he becomes more accoustomed to the position, and I love his approach at the plate — one of the few hitters in the lineup that works the count and makes the opposing pitcher work. I think KJ as a hitter will become comparable to John Olerud. Assuming Chipper can remain healthy for at least 140 games next year, that would leave Renteria as the odd man out. However, I can’t see him bringing back value in a trade. His age, reduced range and arm strength work against a team giving up equal value for him to play shortstop (a position that is becoming loaded with talent), and he doesn’t have the power numbers to make him a prototypical 3B man. (At this stage, I don’t think KJ brings back any more value, and I would not trade Escobar no matter how good we think Lillibridge MIGHT become.) I still don’t think we can do better in a trade than signing Glavine during the off-season.

By Efrim

September 19, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Jerry Crasnick from ESPN.com:

But speculation that Teixeira wants to commit to Atlanta because he’s a Georgia Tech guy is laughable. He’s also a Scott Boras guy, so the Braves can expect to go through the same uncertainty with him in 2008 that they’ve endured with Andruw this season.

I agree with him. It doesn’t mean we can’t sign him, but everyone has to understand that the Mets, Yankees and Red Sox will be looking for a 1st baseman at the end of next year. He will take the most money that he is offered. Even if the Braves offer him 8 years and 160 million, the Yankees will offer 8 years and 200 million and he will take that money. He is a Boras client, they always go to free agency and always take the most money.

By Carolina Gent

September 19, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Oh, and lest I be remiss in my blogging duties, all best wishes and prayers to The Lady (from the other end of the state). This blog needs her!

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 19, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

this link http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2007/09/17/story10.html?page=1&b=1190001600^1519689 was posted by Ron Roberts last night, and I know it was talked about some before I signed off (and perhaps after, but that is on the “old” blog ;) but I think it bares repeating….Braves were sold for 450 Mil, and Time/warner had revenue of 44 billion. So, we were what, little more than 1 % of this years “earnings”, and they were shorting us on an extra 5-10 million dollars to improve the club!!!

Remember this as a good reason we didn’t win anything this year. We couldn’t sign glavine and keep Hudson, remember? We couldn’t offer Daryle Ward what the Cubs offered him(Gee, would we have wanted his .340 average this year, or Thorman and Wilson?) Couldn’t trade for a decent pitcher early in the year, cuz a decent pitcher would get paid more than Mark Redman.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Lew: Have two things about that Payne post…

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Howdy, 3Trees. Been a while. I can understand Bob, but Elvis Costello? Yikes. With the exception of the Pogues (which jammed even with him in it), I’d rather see and hear almost anyone else than that particular Elvis.

Later, all.

By r1U

September 19, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

What really bites is that AJ has killed us and will leave…if he had hit .250 with RISP there would be a huge gap between the Phils, Mets and US…that gap would be due to our being in first place by at least 5 games. Let’s face it, he was horrible this year and always seemed to be up when we needed a game breaker. tex will go the way of the dough-dough unfortunately…his agent is a first class p**p. There is still hope, but it is dwindling Go Braves!!!

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Some of you guys constantly see the bottom of everything. I agree, we probably will not be able to sign Tex after nest year, but—unlike Andruw—he will give us a signature year, next year. Then, this time next year when we are in the playoffs, start your worrying about whether we can resign him. And who knows who might be available by then. You negative nellies not only need to chill, you need to take a few sips of a James Bond martini.

By Jim

September 19, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Hudson has rebounded in his last 2 starts (with an additional day of rest), but there was an important 4-game stretch from the St. Louis game when he couldn’t hold a 4-run lead through the Phillies game where we had the miracle finish that he was not very good. In a 6-man rotation, Smoltz and hudson would be making 7 fewer starts/year each. If Glavine or equivalent were the 3rd starter next year, he would be making those 14 starts + 13 of the current 3-5 pitchers starts. With off-days, the 6th starter would only make about 20 starts with the rest going to the other five pitches — an extra start or 2 for the top 3. If circumstances dictate, the 6-man rotation could always be reduced to 5, but given the age and health of our projected rotation and the unlikely case that it can be up-graded in a more significant way. I would give it a try.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Efrim: I’ve been saying that since he got here. No way Teixeira takes anything that could be considered close to a “home town” discount. The guy is in it for money. And I think next year he will have a massive season because of it. He comes across as the type that can actually step it up a notch if several hundered million is on the line. I don’t know that the Mets could out bid the Yankees and RedSox though, so I’m not terribly worried about him leaving Atlanta and going to the Mets. I’d like to see him stay if possible, but it’s going to take serious coin to get that to happen.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 19, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Gosh, why does everyone think we are done with Andruw?? Just because he has had a terrible year??? From mlbrumors.com

Andruw Wants To Stay…Sort Of I’d take it with a grain of salt, but Braves center fielder Andruw Jones had this to say yesterday regarding his future: “If they want me here, I’ll be here. It just depends on what the Braves want to do. We’ll have to see what happens. Hopefully, they’ll come up with something. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t.” I don’t know about you, but that’s not entirely convincing. I do believe that Jones will wait to see what Atlanta offers before testing the free agent waters. Jones made $13.5MM this year and was awful. Both parties might be amenable to a one-year, $14-15MM deal. Scott Boras typically encourages his clients to declare free agency, though, and if Andruw does that he’ll probably find a better offer elsewhere.

By Stu

September 19, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

I think we can afford to compete for Tex. Just have to backload the contract a little, as we’re pretty clear on commitments after ‘09.

It’s a much smaller risk than signing a pitcher longterm (see Hampton). First basemen rarely get seriously injured, so the risk is not so great, and Tex could very well be a Todd Helton type; we should lock him up for his best years and then be prepared to let him go when he’s 34 or so.

This would also mean that next year, we could trade Kaala Kaaihu for quality players (as needed), if he continues to develop the first half of the year.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 19, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Carolina Gent Get ready to pony up the cash for MLB package next year. Those folks in market will not be affected by the switch as the Peachtree Network is really TBS local.

Folks like us that are out of market will either have to pay up or root for the Nationals or whatever in market team they are assigned to.

Carroll Nice article, many of us have grown very accustom to old Skip and would miss him greatly. Now we know why he is so contrary.

Tex was a great pickup for the Braves. He has saved a lot of runs with his stellar play at first. He reminds me of the “Big Cat”. The Braves should plan on spending the money to sign him long term.

Let’s hope Liberty Media gives a hoot about Atlanta. I don’t ask that they spend like a drunken sailor, just a slightly tipsy one. The Braves have a very good team aside form starting pitching. Of course that is most team’s problem.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

I believe Glavine’s option year has kicked in. He can opt-out and resign if he likes (he still has the player side option), or take the year he earned and just show up to spring training with the Mets. But as of now, he has a vested option year contract with the Mets for next season.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

One final comment on Tex. I don’t think Crime Dog, in his prime, could have gotten us into the playoffs this year. It would have taken Andruw pulling his weight(no pun)and we all know he didn’t. Before, or after Tex arrived.

And for the poster who said he hoped AJ was not in the NL and taking doubles away from the Braves, I wouldn’t mind being on the “receiving end” of some of his rally-killing DPs.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 19, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Jim,

That 6 man rotation is an interesting thought. And resting both Smoltz and Hudson during the season could only help. I just don’t think Bobby has what -you-call-it, oh yeah, an open mind to new ideas. That, and we don’t have more than 2 1/2 starters. A team like the red sox??? Man, that would be interesting. They have 6 starters right now, even after trading Gabbard.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 19, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Six man rotation ! you guys crack me up ! Lets do the math. 162 divided by 6 = 27. 162 divided by 5 = 32.4 . You want to water down the pitching , take six starts away from Smoltz and Hudson each (12 total) and lose even more games. I’m laughing my A double S off at the moment. For S-T-U-P-I-D. Sixteen team’s have an ERA over 4.45 , of which , just one will probably make the playoff’s (Yankees). Yea , let’s go with a six man rotation and watch the team ERA skyrocket even more.

By keylargo25

September 19, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t want AJ here under a one year contract. He is about the most “unclutch” player the Braves have. That’s been his problem all year - contract year, must produce but the pressure got him. I saw a stat the he was hitting .107 with RISP and two outs since the All Star break. I agree with Lew that Tex’s presence all year batting behind Chipper would have given Chipper the championship by 10 or 20 points. AJ batting fourth gave CJ nothing to hit many AB’s. I can still see that idiot going to one knee trying to pull everything for a homerun and striking out. You don’t need a player on your team who won’t listen to the coaches. That said, I hope it’s goodbye to AJ and hello longtern to Tex THIS winter. I don’t want to go through another walk year with a Boras client knowing we are not going to be able to sign him.

By Stu

September 19, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

6 man rotation? Well, if you want Jose Reyes pitching as often as John Smoltz, let’s do it! And if you want a 6-man bullpen pitching 4-5 innings per night, okay!

To me, the ideal would be to have 5 solid starters, and to never skip the 5th starter spot; this is what the ‘06 Chisox did, with 5 guys getting 30-33 starts. But in the real world, we probably don’t want our “5th” going any more often than necessary, and who the H is our “6th?”

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

Yes Rodger to me it ws really funny, and if you notice, he keeps walking backwards, so the umpire follows him, looks to me he wanted to make sure it didnt look as if he was challenging the ump, but the other way around. He just thought about that on the mound, and completely made the ump look stupid. I think even the ump LOL, not sure.

Maddux clip

By ernesto

September 19, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

I love Tex. Would like to see him stay a Brave. That being said, 1B isn’t where I’d sink 20 million a year on a team with a, at best, 90 mil payroll. I’d rather go after Santana with that money and do the best we can with a second tier First Baseman.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Rodger did you like the finesse he put into it? Just great, LOL.

The ump goes, like, im sorry?, and he just goes like, im just saying you are a dumb a$$…..

By Lew

September 19, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Haven’t seen the free agent list and hence have done no analysis-I just can’t say. As far as the trade deadline-Yes, I understand exactly what you’re saying. However……During the trade deadline you had only the contenders going for what ever pitching was available from those definitely out of it. In the offseason it will be different, but maybe not quite how you mean-and not cheaper, IMO. You’ll probably end up with twice as many teams looking and half the teams selling as before the deadline. Now I’m not saying it can’t be done, but no one has come up with a feasible trade yet, as far as I’m concerned. Pitching is at such a premium and everyone needs it. Finding a number one or two, like some suggest, is I believe, impossible. That being said, I don’t think we need a ton of new pitching. We need a decent number 3 or 4 guy. We have kids coming up in the next couple years and we will also have more cash available through large salary attrition in another year or so.

Now Andruw-What you say is true-to an extent. Yes, he only hit .220 this year-much less than usual, but you WILL have to replace 25+HR and at least close to 100RBI-also what would he have produced with a mediocre season? Not what you would expect from him, but what you actually did get and conceivably could get from him. I don’t believe he will be back except with a HUGE influx of cash and if we did have that influx, I wouldn’t spend it on Andruw, but on pitching. Brandon Jones will probably hit for better avg., but not quite the power.

Another thing about the Renteria trade scenario. First, you have to find a team that needs a shortstop. It’s a stocked position in the bigs right now. Second, you have to find a team that has pitching available. Third a team that is willing to give that pitching up and a team that can afford an additional $6 million-not all can. You also need to factor in the fact that after the Red Sox fiasco, Renteria is widely seen as an NL player only. This seriously limits you. You can right off the bat subtract Philly, the Mets, the Marlins and the Braves from that scenario. They don’t need shortstops. Neither does Colorado and probably a few others I could think of if I tried hard enough. That right there, will seriously limit your potential trade partners.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

Coach Can we put you down as for, or against a 6-man rotation?

By ernesto

September 19, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

We win tonight, Milwaukee and SD lose…it gets a little more interesting.

By keylargo25

September 19, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

I don’t trade ER next year period. He’s your #2 MVP on the team. He is solid everywhere (agreed not spectacular range), good in the clubhouse, plays 150+ games. PLUS Boston is paying $5,000,000 of his salary next year. I think Escobar is going to be as good as Renteria - going to be but not yet. Look at his hitting and fielding stats. Just not quite as good. Remember the botched double play that cost us a game? ER has been making that play for years. I just can’t see dumping your 2nd best position player for another question mark in the rotation and that’s what you’ll get with a #3. There will be plenty of playing time for Escobar and he’ll be #1 off the bench as a pinch hitter. And he could wind up as the second baseman although I hate to try to change positions at the ML level.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this

Lew: Here is the list. Feel free to scan that list and pick out a solid #3 or #4 starter that will be reasonably priced with a managable length contract.
My suggested plans for trading are not for #1 starters, and I would agree, Renteria alone wouldn’t pull in Johan Santana. It’d cost way more in a trade to get that. But, That being said, the Giants are in need of a short stop. Omar is a FA at years end. The Giants have stated that they intend to get younger. Renteria is younger than Omar, but still old enough for that GM to like him. They also currently have a 6 man staff. Lowry could stand to improve his innings, but he isn’t a bad starter. Certainly better than Cormier/Redman/Wells/Byrd or others for that matter.

but you WILL have to replace 25+HR and at least close to 100RBI
The HR’s I can live without if the guy is playing solid Defense and hitting for a higher average and OBP. The RBI’s are a function of the team. He’s had a gazillion opportunities to knock in runs and failed more often than succeded. We now have Teixeira in the clean up spot, so what we are left with is replacing a guy who hit .220 with 140 K’s and a .730 OPS in the 7th spot in the order. I think we’ll manage just fine.
also what would he have produced with a mediocre season?
Great numbers probably, but he didn’t have a mediocre season. He had a terrible one and this team still put up top notch offensive numbers. So again, all we have to do now is replace the 7th spot in the order. The 7th spot which is currently occupied by a .220 hitter with 140 K’s and a .730 OPS. All of those stats are poor by any standard.

I’m still interested in your FA Pitcher idea. So if you see one you like, I’d love to hear it.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

You know what is sad for me about Skip being sick like that - well, besides him being sick and all.

It’s that I noticed he was missing, was a little confused about it, but didn’t think to mention it here on the blog or ask about it because I figured that the suits were just screwing around with him again and that they had him on some weird schedule in their continued clueless and pathetic attempt to phase him out.

Love Skip and Pete. I wish they would partner Chip and Boog as well. With Skip and Pete and Chip and Boog, they would have the old and the new.

Skip and Pete have great chemistry. I think Chip and Boog would as well. I think Chip and Boog are young and are interested in the same topics and would have great baseball conversations between them during the games.

I think each makes an effort to do that with Joe but Joe is more of a traditional baseball announcer and is not as comfortable doing a game broadcast as a radio talk show of sorts. But I really like Joe and think he does a good job. Sometimes I get the sense that Joe wants to say can we quit it already with this quasi talk show and talk about the damn game already.

But I think Boog and Chip are very comfortable and interested in doing the broadcast like a radio talk show where they announce the goings on of the game but talk about everything that is going on in the entire majors as well, including history. I would really like to see them partnered up a few times to see how it shakes out. It would be interesting to me.

Chip brings a little more cheese than Boog but I think they might strike gold with such a partnering. Chip sounds alot less cheesy when he is doing the call in show. He actually can be funny, especially when the dumbarses start calling in. I imagine if he was working with Boog, he might be enjoyable like I find him with the call in show and and would get less cheesy the longer he was partnered with Boog.

I love hearing Skip and Pete best when they are with each other but I also often like hearing them when they are partnered up with the inexperienced likes of Gant or Lemke. They both seem to make the effort to play the old vet taking the kid under their wing and trying to make the kid better. Pete seems like a great point guard when he does it, playing to their strengths and not asking them to do anything they are not ready to do. Skip always sounds like a guy who loves them and wants to make sure they do well. It’s a side of Skip you don’t often get to see unless he is with Chip.

They really do seem to make an effort to adapt for the skill level of the guy they are working with. They never come off condescending or resentful or spiteful or like they are having their time wasted by Lemke or Gant. They come off like don’t worry kid, lemme do the hard stuff and let’s just have fun and make this work kid. If you sound stupid or screw up, it’s my fault, not yours. I love them for that.

When Chip or Joe or Don or Boog work with a Gant or Lemke, they seem more demanding and don’t put them in as good of a position to succeed. I get annoyed with the things Gant or Lemke find themselves saying more often when they are working with the other guys.

By Carroll Rogers

September 19, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

The Braves called up Jeff Bennett from AAA. He’s making the start tomorrow. He’s the guy who pitched in all Richmond’s big games down the stretch. He throws 91-92 sinker/slider. this will be his first major league start. …..the thinking is he gives them a better shot than lance cormier.

By Yars

September 19, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

We’ll have Tex for all of next season. I can’t see the Braves offering him some monster contract. He may well be worth $18-$19 million per season after ‘08. Some team will offer him a monster contract. I just hope it ain’t Atlanta. As for a 6 man rotation, never gonna happen in Atlanta, at least with Schuerholz at the helm. I hope he goes for broke over the winter & signs/trades for a #1 or #2 starting pitcher. We got plenty of trade bait to be able to acquire a solid pitcher that could win 17-18 games. Only 10 games left after tonight. Kinda breaks my heart looking at the standings in the NL East & Wildcard. Man, we should be where the Phillies are right now! Instead, it looks like we’ll finish in freaking 3rd place. In any case, I hope Chipper wins the NL batting title, & gets his 100 RBI’s. Would also be cool if Kelly Johnson finished with a .290 average, 18-19 HR, & 75 RBI’s. Now Playing: Fly On The Windscreen by Depeche Mode.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 19, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

Here you go , Paladin. The five best ERA’s : Smoltz 2.97 Hudson 3.33 James 4.30 Carlyle 5.16 Davies 5.76 , collectively they have an ERA of 3.96. Add a sixth in Cormier = 4.15 or Reyes = 4.11 , add Redman = 4.18. You see my argument in the numbers ? The six man rotation makes the team ERA go up , watering the pitching down.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 19, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Lew, and others….

I can certainly understand why you guys want to keep Renteria…but…if we don’t trade him, how exactly do we trade for pitching and keep him??? Who are you willing to trade for pitching? Frenchy? McCann? Convince Chipper to agree to a trade?? No?? Then who? Or are you all comfortable that Chucky and Jo-Jo will be taking us to the WS next year?

It would be a waste to have Yunel riding the bench next year, or splitting time with Johnson, and resting Chipper here and there. And if we traded Yunel…man, would that ever haunt us. I forget what game it was the other day, but Tex was asked who or what surprised him the most, and he said Yunel…that he is really, really good.

By T-Bone

September 19, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

Carroll, Let’s start thinking about next season—or better yet, the off-season. The obvious need is pitching, whether by trade or free agency. Here’s a project for an upcoming blog. You and DOB do the research and let us know which pitchers will (or could) be available.

People keep saying that the Braves only need a #3 pitcher, but I really disagree. I’m personally not sold on Huddy. He was good (not great) this season, but it took him 3 years in a Braves uniform to get there. What’s to say that he won’t be iffy again next year. Smoltz is obviously Smoltz. He would be any team’s #1. But he’s not getting any younger. He’s sort of like a pitcher’s version of Chipper—can carry the team when he’s healthy, but … I think we need to go after the absolute best pitcher possible, given money and trade constraints.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

I was just funnin’ with you Coach. I think it is obvious how you feel about it, and I agree. OK?

By DonCoburleone

September 19, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

I think this team will finish strong… I say we end the season 86-76; probably 2-3 games out of a playoff spot… But remember, this season is almost guaranteed to be an improvement over last season and all we have to do is continue to improve next year and I think this team can win between 90 and 95 games in 2008… We need to trade Renteria and/or Prado for a starting pitcher but if we can’t get one that is at least decent (Garland would be about as low as I would go) then we just keep them and try to sign a pitcher (Glavine anyone?)…

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

The 6 man rotation thing is interesting to me. I think it is impractical, especially since we have a hard enough time getting 3 starters but I still find it interesting. You would probably need to increase the rosters to have 27-30 players though so you have enough pitching.

Teams always play games on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Mondays and Thursdays are often the off days every other week or so. Sometimes, I think with teams that have older starters or very young starters or very injury prone starters that it would make sense to have your starters designated to start on certain days of the week.

IF it ever happened, and I was managing the Cubs, I would make Kerry Wood my Saturday starter and Mark Prior my Sunday starter for example. Then Wood could be available to pitch an inning or two of relief every Tuesday or Wednesday and Prior would be available for a relief inning or two on Wednesday or Thursday.

With the Braves you would make Smoltz your Sunday starter and have him pitch an inning or two in relief every Wednesday or Thursday.

So, next year, I would have Hampton be the Friday starter, Glavine the Saturday starter, Smoltz the Sunday starter, James the Tuesday starter, Cormier the Wednesday starter, Buddy the Thursday starter and JoJo the Monday starter. The two weakest links would not get as many starts since many offdays falls when they are slated to pitch.

Then Smoltz could be available for a relief inning or two on Wednesday or Thursday, Hampton on Monday or Tuesday, Glavine on Tuesday or Wednesday, Chuck on Friday, Saturday, Cormier on Saturday, Sunday, JoJo on Thursday, Friday, Buddy on Sunday, Monday.

It’s all impractical hypothetical thinking but it’s interesting to think about. And Coach don’t jump on me. I’m not saying it’s what I do - just something I find interesting to think about.

A big problem is that you would only be getting 26 starts or so out of your aces. You might be able to get more innings per start out of them but….. Say SMoltz and Hudson could average 7 innings a start under that sort of rotation. That would be 182 innings. Say they pitched an average of one inning of relief per week. That would be 26 innings. YOu are left at best with only 208 innings out of your best starters. That is not what you are looking for. Too many innings and games are left in the hands of inferior pitchers. Not a recipe for success.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

And for the record, I don’t want to see Renteria go. I love that guy. He’s incredibly solid. His range may not be that of a young 23 year old, nor his arm that of a Furcal, but he is solid on Defense. The balls he gets to he turns into outs. He’s the best damn #2 hitter I’ve ever seen in a Braves Uni. So, if there is some way to keep all our guys, sign others (Francoeur, AJ, et al) to long term deals AND improve our rotation considerably, I’ll be very pleased and extremely impressed… but I just don’t know that that is possible.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe how many people on this blog come up with the “original” idea to resign Glavine. Well, while we are at it why don’t we resign Millwood and Maddux? It ain’t going to happen. So, deal with it. And I thought us old folks were the ones who lived in the past. Get with it folks. Live in the present.

By Train Wreck Bystander

September 19, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

I’d still have made the deal for Tex, because we still needed an everyday first baseman at the time.

=====

Regarding the Braves TV market: I hate to quote Wikipedia, but in lieu of any other source I will.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

I’m personally not sold on Huddy. He was good (not great) this season, but it took him 3 years in a Braves uniform to get there. What’s to say that he won’t be iffy again next year.

The Braves are 247-229 overall the last 3 years. They are 60-36 when Tim Hudson pitches. They are 187-193 when he does not pitch. Even when he is “iffy” they win alot of games he pitches.

The Braves are 59-39 when Smoltz starts. 188-190 when he does not.

*119-75 when Hudson and Smoltz start. 128-154 when Smoltz and Hudson do not start.

I am not too worried about Hudson or Smoltz. Go get me a number three or four. An ace ain’t happening. There is no other ace which will be reasonably priced for our cheapskate owners.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 19, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

Paladin , I’m not totally against the idea of the six man rotation. It’s just that outside of the Boston Red Sox , none of the other 29 teams have the necessary quality of depth in their pitching to make it work.

By Chop Chop

September 19, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

I have a feeling that we’re not going to see much of Chip after this season. With TBS dropping national Braves coverage (well, 45 games will be broadcast locally, so maybe Chip will do those to stay fresh…I honestly don’t know if he’s going to be doing any of those games or not…I also don’t know if he’s signed to do Braves radio beyond this year…maybe Carroll can find out for us), it’s going to be almost all Boog and Joe on Braves telecasts next year.

By DonCoburleone

September 19, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Wow, Jeff Bennet huh Carroll? Jeez, looking at his stats for Richmond this season, and it reeks of mediocrity (86IP; 3.35era; 1.37WHIP; and a god-awful strikeout to walk ratio of 1.32:1). Like you said though, the only bright spot is in his last 2 outings with Ricmond he went 12 innings while only allowing 1 run… So I guess he is basically just your average sinker ball pitcher - If the sinker ain’t down in the zone, LOOK OUT!!!

But Carroll, I don’t see his age anywhere, how old is this guy? Please tell me he’s closer to 21 than to 27 at least…

By DonCoburleone

September 19, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Okay, nevermind, Jeff Bennet is 27 and has pitched in the majors before… Kind of depressing… But I dug a little deeper too and found that since Richmond converted him to a starter he’s 2-1 with a 2.15era and 1.17WHIP in 6 games (29.1 innings). Maybe he really does give us a better shot tomorrow than Cormier…

By DonCoburleone

September 19, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

Here is the trade that will go down this offseason for Atlanta: Edgar Renteria + Junk for Nate Robertson + junk… IT WILL HAPPEN!!!

By tim tebow

September 19, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

c’mon braves!

just put your heads down and bust right up the middle. it’s that easy.

‘specially if your up against phil foolmer.

By Dan

September 19, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me the availablity of CC Sabathia of the Cleveland Indians? He would be a GREAT addition to the Braves staff in 08. Any idea of what it would take to get him in a trade if he is not a free agent.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

Is it just me, or has this thing gotten unbearably slow, even with firefox. Anyway, I’m gone.

By Fan since 66

September 19, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

Okay,I have been putting this off long enough.The fans of the Braves including myself have been spoiled by all the winning years.Now the Braves will have gone two seasons not making the playoffs.Some of you want to rip every player on the team who has a bad game.Some want to run Bobby off.Most want to run Andruw Jones out of town on a rail.People want to move Kelly Johnson back to the outfield.My goodness the man just started playing second this year and has done a helluva job.Give him a chance he is a fine ballplayer.Matt Diaz has developed into a great hitter and has improved his fielding a lot.Yet he gets ripped almost everyday.Tex came in here with his back to wall because we traded the great prospect for him.Tex is a proven major league power hitter and gold glove first basemen.Salty has great potential but,he has not proven anything and had no position with Atlanta.Tex has come over and just keeps on producing like he did in Texas.This team has not played up to its potential thats for sure.But its had injury’s to key players and some of them have been devastating to this team.Starting pitching and relief pitching both lost key performers for all or parts of the season.Trades for quality pitching are hard to make when supply is limited.Then when a trade does happen and the guy you get goes down with injury its hard on the team.The team has very little speed and that hurts.Flustration leads to mistakes and the team has been lax on fundementals.Inability to bunt runners over has hurt several times.This is not Bobby’s nor the coaches fault.Its sits directly in the players lap.They just need to work harder to get these thing’s right.This team has the right players to win,it just needs a couple more peices to fall in place.A couple of starting pitchers that can win and the Braves are in business.Andruws contract is up and alot of fans want him to leave.But Andruw is the best center fielder in the game.And yes he has had a bad year at the bat.But Andruws power numbers will return.I think that being in the last year of the contract has affected his play.Get him resigned and you’ll see a Andruw of old.This team has everything else it needs to win.You have proven veterans and exciting young players such as Escobar,McCann and Francoer who are hungry to win.John Smoltz has been great and yes he will be a year older next year.But the guy can still pitch and a big influence on the other guys on the staff.All great teams who have won for so long have down years and then come back strong.The Braves will better with a couple more right additions to this team.The GM and the manager of this team know what it takes and they will get the right people to return this team to the playoffs and on to the World Series.So guys instead of griping about what the team is not doing right get behind the Braves and support them.Then someday soon we will all be sitting in the stands at Turner Field in October watching the World Series.

By Fan since 66

September 19, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

Okay,I have been putting this off long enough.The fans of the Braves including myself have been spoiled by all the winning years.Now the Braves will have gone two seasons not making the playoffs.Some of you want to rip every player on the team who has a bad game.Some want to run Bobby off.Most want to run Andruw Jones out of town on a rail.People want to move Kelly Johnson back to the outfield.My goodness the man just started playing second this year and has done a helluva job.Give him a chance he is a fine ballplayer.Matt Diaz has developed into a great hitter and has improved his fielding a lot.Yet he gets ripped almost everyday.Tex came in here with his back to wall because we traded the great prospect for him.Tex is a proven major league power hitter and gold glove first basemen.Salty has great potential but,he has not proven anything and had no position with Atlanta.Tex has come over and just keeps on producing like he did in Texas.This team has not played up to its potential thats for sure.But its had injury’s to key players and some of them have been devastating to this team.Starting pitching and relief pitching both lost key performers for all or parts of the season.Trades for quality pitching are hard to make when supply is limited.Then when a trade does happen and the guy you get goes down with injury its hard on the team.The team has very little speed and that hurts.Flustration leads to mistakes and the team has been lax on fundementals.Inability to bunt runners over has hurt several times.This is not Bobby’s nor the coaches fault.Its sits directly in the players lap.They just need to work harder to get these thing’s right.This team has the right players to win,it just needs a couple more peices to fall in place.A couple of starting pitchers that can win and the Braves are in business.Andruws contract is up and alot of fans want him to leave.But Andruw is the best center fielder in the game.And yes he has had a bad year at the bat.But Andruws power numbers will return.I think that being in the last year of the contract has affected his play.Get him resigned and you’ll see a Andruw of old.This team has everything else it needs to win.You have proven veterans and exciting young players such as Escobar,McCann and Francoer who are hungry to win.John Smoltz has been great and yes he will be a year older next year.But the guy can still pitch and a big influence on the other guys on the staff.All great teams who have won for so long have down years and then come back strong.The Braves will better with a couple more right additions to this team.The GM and the manager of this team know what it takes and they will get the right people to return this team to the playoffs and on to the World Series.So guys instead of griping about what the team is not doing right get behind the Braves and support them.Then someday soon we will all be sitting in the stands at Turner Field in October watching the World Series.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Lew,

What makes me think the Braves can get a pitcher in the off-season? Well, the Giants are likely to lose Omar Vizquel and may be willing to give up a pitcher or two (or should if they have any shot at getting a shortstop like Renteria without giving up Cain or Lincecum, which they won’t do).

Also, the Braves need good starters, not necessarily proven starters. The Giants have plenty of pitching. I think they’d be willing to give up Lowry, Correia or Jonathan Sanchez.

And, yes, Andruw’s going to be gone, but did he provide much this year? And look what the Braves offense did this year. And it’s not like the Braves would be replacing Renteria with some fringe guy.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave, when do I change variables? I need examples.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 19, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Jeff Bennett is 27 , stands 6-3 , throws right , bats right. He is 1-4 with an ERA of 3.97 as a relief pitcher. 2-1 with an ERA of 2.15 in six starts for Richmond. his total numbers in 2007 : 3 wins 5 losses 3.42 ERA 94.66 innings 40 BB 52 SO and 1 save. He has 111 starts in nine minor league seasons. Bennett is another career minor leaguer who will be the tenth starter used by the Braves in 2007.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Muts losing again…….. guess we finally are getting rid of muts fans. I dont think they will be able to blog here all 2008 if this collapse finally sends them home.

I think the muts are just trying to help global warming!!!!!!!!

They are sooooooo cold!!!!!!!!

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Trades with the Giants can be good things. They traded A.J. however you spell his last name (the ahole catcher) and ended up with Francisco Liriano, Joe Nathan, & Boof Bonser. I’d trade Edgar Renteria for that.

By dadgum

September 19, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

All those from the last blog that mentioned Kelly Johnson or Lillibridge as outfield possibilities well that just won’t happen. The Braves are just too loaded at outfield which is one reason we can part with Andruw and suffer little.

People, don’t gush at Andruw’s highlight reel catches. True they are great but others can make plays too. Also others can have timely hits and bat much closer to.300.

Someone mentioned that my thought of Escobar at SS and Prado at 2nd with Andruw gone would be too much power loss. First with Escobar you will never miss Renteria. Trust me on that one. Just trust me OK. 2nd base is first foremost and always forever amen a DEFENSIVE position. Prado given a whole season there will make you forget KJ and OH DID I MENTION HE DAMN NEAR WON THE IL BATTING TITLE as a 2nd baseman. Yeah he did. Forget that they come cheap and are real young we need to trade for pitching. You gonna trade Escobar and Prado instead of gone next year Renteria and a converted 2nd baseman like KJ? Really think that through. OK didn’t think so.

If JS trades either Prado or Escobar for anybody I will think he has lost his mind. Don’t get real concerned with power loss. Does anyone really give a damn how many homers Andruw has or the Braves will have to replace. Didn’t think so.

Rock on….while wishing Andruw the best of luck in the other league.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this

Here’s something from an ESPN chat. You know, something I can bring up to support my points of view. Never mind that it makes a whole lot of sense:

Matt (Rochester): Wouldn’t it be possible that game-calling is important, it’s just that every catcher in the big leagues has a good idea of how to do it? (There was a previous question about catchers calling games and Keri brought up a study that seemed to show it was overstated.)

SportsNation Jonah Keri: Excellent point, Matt. And that’s germane to the argument about clutch hitting and other factors too. We might make light of the odd Neifi Perez in the majors, arguing this or that guy is terrible. But just to make the major leagues you need to go through an absolute meat grinder. If you’re a weak-kneed choker or a catcher with no clue how to call a game, you’re topping out at Double-A. In terms of overall ability, there’s certainly a big difference between Albert Pujols and Doug Mientkiewicz. But for stuff like calling games, clutch hitting etc., I tend to think that Darwinism has already factored in by the time players make the majors.

By snuffy smith

September 19, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

Okay,I have been putting this off long enough.

fan good buddy - really shouldn’t put it off it t’ain’t good fer ya try some meta-mucil or some prunes

y’all feel a heckuva lot better

By raymond brrrrr

September 19, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

I think the muts are just trying to help global warming! They are sooooooo cold!

I love it.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

dadgum, at the very best, prado is to escobar as estrada was to mccann. nice little players that are not on the level of mccann and kj.

By keylargo25

September 19, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

dadgum

That guy you’ll “never miss” at SS just stroked a HR that probably put him in the lead for the batting title. I won’t forget that.
I also remember Prado jumping out of the way of a screaming one hopper for an error and getting sent down the next day. Renteria got hurt the next day and he was called back up and celebrated his recall by bailing out at second on a steal when the throw was on the first base side of second for another error. I promise you I won’t forget that either.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Ronnie Belliard is one of the must underrated players in all of baseball, everytime i have seen him play, wash and stl, i just watch a good player, smooth defense, and he makes batting look easy, not great hitter, but a very good one.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

dadgum: Marteen is nothing close to KJ with the bat. Nothing even close. Bully for him coming up short on the IL batting title, it was his best season yet in the minors (15 HRs in 5 years!?! KJ hit more than that at a higher level with a better OBP and SLG playing pretty much part time). Prado still has no thunder. And KJ hits anywhere, absolutely anywhere in the line up. His defense wasn’t that bad either. At least not enough to make me think he needs to be traded for an upgrade. Marteen is a solid guy I suppose. And he’ll make a great 5th infielder someday.

By Savannah Guy

September 19, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

Snuffy, yew ain’t ryte. Jussain’t ryttatall. Funnie as all gettout tho. Crak meeyup awlla tyme.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Would anybody be so kind and explain to me:

If the excuse given on AJs horrible season is that he is playing injuried, how come he is still on the everyday lineup?

Maybe his injury just doesnt hurt, that must be a new kind of injury.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I don’t know how to make this any clearer-Lowrey has been out for three weeks, probably not to pitch again this season. Sanchez just went down today for the rest of the season. Why would you trade a player of Edgar;s caliber for two pitchers who you have no idea how they will be next year? As far as Correia-maybe he would be good-I don’t know. However, in 56 games this year, he has only started 6 games-apparently all since Lowrey went down. He has not gone more than six innings and that only once, since becoming a starter (this time around). He walks a lot of batters and doesn’t strike out that many. Maybe he could be an effective starter in a year or so. Can we wait that long? If we do, aren’t we already well on the way to the development of our own pitchers (check it out-we do have some potentially good ones)? If this is the case, why give up Edgar for somebody that won’t fill a need right now?

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Overlord: If the excuse given on AJs horrible season is that he is playing injuried, how come he is still on the everyday lineup?

Where is this excuse given? This article has a title of Andruw not making excuses. It went on to quote Andruw:
“I’m just struggling,” Jones said. “I’m not going to make excuses about the injuries that I had. I just didn’t play on a high level.”

By Yogi Berra

September 19, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

If it hurts to work, your work hurts.

By keylargo25

September 19, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

dadgum

I have some stats you might WANT TO FORGET. Johnson and Renteria’s fielding perctages are .978. Escobar is at .961 and that slick Martee Ole Prado is fielding a AAA like .953. Oh and that guy that Escobar will make me forget it leading the league in hitting at .339.

By Carroll Rogers

September 19, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

thanks coach, bennett is 27. and his stats have gotten progressively better as the season went on because he was coming back from tommy john surgery.

By BJax

September 19, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

It’s just too bad we can’t play these Marlins more often. What a bunch of heartless, clueless stiffs. Hard to believe some of them are major leaguers.

By Poach Coach

September 19, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

To Hell With AOL, To Be Free From Liberty

By keylargo25

September 19, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

I live down here in South Florida and hear more about the Marlins than the Braves on the local level. They have a guy named Scott Olson that reminds me of Steve Avery. Big lefthander that doesn’t throw as hard as you might expect and has good control. He has been in trouble with his teammates (dugout fight) and got a DUI that I believe is still pending. He has won 9 games for a bad team and would be available for a fresh start. I’m just not sure he would fit in. I really don’t have much insight into his personality but I know he has a future if he can overcome himself.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

Joey Devine has been called up to the majors 6 times this year. He has 5 innings pitched. Less innings pitched than times called up. That’s gotta be a record.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

TP, i know that AJ himself told that he was not giving any excuses. But thats what i have heard all year long (i might be wrong), that AJ got his elbow hurt, some hyperextension and that he was underperforming because of that. That it hurt when he fully extended his elbow (not sure which one) while swinging hard.

Thats what i have here……. correct me if im wrong.

Thanks

By snuffy smith

September 19, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

hillbillies invented the internet

they even named a company after my good buddy barney google

sweet mama

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 19, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this

Chuck James : 7 innings 2 hits 0 runs 1 walk 6 strike outs , WOW. I can’t see the game , did he go and throw a few breaking balls ?

By keylargo25

September 19, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

http://www.seehowtheylive.com/aJones.php

Here is something to make you want to make sure Andruw and Boras are not going to get cheated again.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Great game Braves!

Chuck James threw like he should, 100 pitches for 7 strong. Good game Chuck.

4 in a row boys. Keep it up!

GO BRAVES!!

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

Overlord: I don’t see what you have there, so I’m not sure if it is right or wrong. All I can do is go by what the man said. He said, in so many words, “I stinked it up.”

By Wayne in Utah

September 19, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

keylargo Makes you kinda feel sorry for the guy, huh!

Where is Gregor Blanco? Andruw needs to sit and rest up for his busy off-season.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

keylargo25: Actually, Chipper and Edgar are a couple of points behind Holliday, depending on the out come of tonight’s game (so far he’s 2-3 with 2 HRs, standing at .340). But watching Chipper and Renteria go back and forth during the game was sweet. That’s gotta be fun competing like that. It only helps the team too.

By The Born Loser

September 19, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

I use to play for the Marlins but I was too good for their team.

Maybe the Braves can go undefeated for the remainder of the season.

By keylargo25

September 19, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul I think I sent that in after ER was 3 for 3. I was watching the Fox broadcast down here in Florida and they said Edgar was leading the league at that time. He really got a bad call on the called third strike. I was hoping he would go 4 for 4.

By Jeb

September 19, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

If I am to put any BIG money out, it would have to be for Johan Santana. It HAS to be! If not, get Tom Glavine. You not only get him as a great pitcher, but also a tremendous help in the ears of lefty’s Chuck James, & JoJo Reyes. They would benefit for years to come from Glavien being in their ears on a constant basis!

By Robert

September 19, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

“but if you had it to do over again, would you have not pulled the trigger?”

Yes. Only I would have insisted on throwing Cox into the deal.

By GermanBravesFan

September 19, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

Robert: get a life!!!

By Carroll Rogers

September 19, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

good stat on Joey Devine Braveheart. i might have to steal that.

And dang, i forgot to post this earlier, but Tim Tucker is looking for Braves fans who live far away and are freaked out at the thought of no Braves on TBS next year. If this is you, drop him an e-mail at ttucker@ajc.com. Include your phone number so he can call you. Thanks!

p.s. Dan, you just throwing out whatever great pitcher you can think of? Sure, why not C.C. Sabathia? Why not Jake Peavy, while we’re throwing them out there.

By flbravesgirl

September 20, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

So now we know the answer to Chucky’s problems. Just throw whatever Mac calls for.

Thanks for the Skip story, Carroll. I love that sarcastic old guy & really miss hearing him on a regular basis. So glad he’s feeling better.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

September 20, 2007 1:34 AM | Link to this

Nice win guys. Now , time to question the sanity of our dear manager. Peter Moylan has pitched five of the last six days. In fact , the man has seen action in 74 of the 152 games played this season. That is half the games played for Godsake ! His 86.7 innings is fifth on the team and Moylan isn’t even a starter. Somebody , please tap Bobby on the shoulder and tell him , Yo Bobby , we are 5.5 out in the division and wild card with just ten games left. Don’t burn out your most consistent reliever. That said : if Moylan gets hurt , I’m gonna throw Bobby Cox under the freaking bus , so to speak !

By Serbok

September 20, 2007 5:05 AM | Link to this

Braveheart

September 19, 2007 6:34 PM Enjoyed the Post man! Tonights Blog was very insightful! Enjoyed most all of the Ideas you guys came up with~ Wish I could come up with one:o( I think Tex is gone after 08. I was all for trading renteria in off-season. Have kinda changed my mind on that tho. Baseball seems to be headed into terretories(SP) that I have not seen the likes of b4. Of course Pitching IS the name of the game? I really do not see a pitcher out there, that would be worth packaging Renteria for? MOST Everyone tonight has made very VAlid points! I just dunno~ I think I will just keep watching what the h3ll is going on with other teams and try to figure it out. Almost seems as tho Pitching is at more of a premium than ever b4? This is certainly not easy to say: But maybe we should stick with the pitchers we have? Unless of course JS can do the magic again?

By Lester Reyes

September 20, 2007 6:10 AM | Link to this

Welcome back, Skip, you’re the class of the business (just wish I could hear you more often, as I don’t live in the southeast anymore).

Regarding Crasnick’s assessment of the Teixeira deal: go read Crasnick’s other articles and you’ll see he comes to the poker table with an Uno deck.

Just finished reading an article from a Rangers beat writer, and he doesn’t mention any of the players the Rangers received in exchange for Teixeira except Salty, and yes, I’d do a Salty-straight-up-for-Teixeira deal any day. Maybe the Rangers don’t consider Harrison a viable pitching prospect at this stage, and Yunel simply made Elvis Andrus expendable (plus he’s a few years away). And who else did ATL give up in that trade?…my point exactly. Here’s the Rangers article, you’ll have to scroll down to the Q&A section: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/091907dnsporangnewsletter.3214502.html

I note that he mentions the Rangers might try to go after David DeJesus (CF, Royals), a player I’d like to see the Braves try to acquire if Andruw is really gone after this season. Take an honest look at his splits: he’s been a pretty good leadoff hitter—a table-setter on a team too famished to even crawl to the supper table. He’ll be 28 when the 2008 season starts, so just coming into his supposed prime career years, and likely quite affordable; then there’s that whole Dayton Moore connection that might make a deal easier to come by.

His stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7232

By Lester Reyes

September 20, 2007 6:26 AM | Link to this

The answer to Chucky’s problems is more than just listening to B-Mac, although that certainly seems to help. It also seems to be to give him twice the normal amount of days between starts, since his last start qualified as nothing more than a side session. We’re headed for the days of the six-man rotation, and perhaps, within the next 20 years we’ll see rotations like in Japanese baseball where they only pitch (in games) once every 7-10 days, if that often (now everybody know why Dice-K seems tired?). It comes down to money and the fact that aging pitchers such as David Wells, Clemens, etc. have shown what they can give (ok, not the Clemens of this year) on 5-days rest. If a team knows they can get 25 starts of a proven 42-year-old over 35 starts of the unknown 24-year-old, they’ll take it, and tell the unknown to take his 25 starts and learn something from it. Imagine if we’d had 10 fewer starts each this year for Chuck & Co. to not screw up. Yes, this year’s rotation wasn’t even three-deep for the most part, so trying to get six out of that wouldn’t have worked, but then again, maybe they would have performed better on more rest. Hey, if they’re gonna coddle ‘em every step of the way in the minor leagues, it’s either disingenuous or just plain stupid to expect ‘em to suddenly shoulder the burden of 35 starts a year.

By ncscoots

September 20, 2007 6:38 AM | Link to this

It just goes to show, offend not the baseball gods by underachieving: Braves finally put some good baseball back-to-back, and gain exactly zero ground in either race. Oh, the karma!

I think I may have unclear about my position on the whole trade-for-pitching mindset this offseason. I’m all for it; just perhaps not to the extent that some are. The blog has seen mentions of trading half the lineup, for pete’s sake, LOL. Tex instead of Andruw still gives the Braves 4 bangers in the middle most days, and my major offensive concern (if Edgar is traded) is the lack of experience the Braves might field in 2008.

I’d like to see a veteran OF picked up, who can actually play the OF and provide some RH pop. Just in case. If Brandon or the PTBNL in CF struggles, it would be nice to have a Plan B. Not to mention perhaps giving Frenchy a blasted day off once in a while.

And BTW, the FA pitchers? That is truly as sucky a list as you would ever want to spit at. Paugh!

By wjones

September 20, 2007 7:33 AM | Link to this

Here is an idea for pitching staff construction that I think would work, and I beleive (hope) that at some time an innovative manager will do some variation of this (which means we probably won’t see it in Atlanta-love Bobby, but not an innovator). Ok, here goes:

Get 4 starters (say Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine or some other acquisition, and either James or Reyes) who would be expected to give 6 innings per start. Now we know that won’t always happen, and if they are able to go 7,8,9, that’s great, but the expectation will be six. Now for the fifth spot, take two pitchers (let’s say Hampton and Cormier)who are expected to go three innings each-that would be a much more solid number than the six inning guys, basically stick to 3 unless they are just getting drilled, injured or have thrown so few pitches you want to give them an extra inning. Now you take this spot in the rotation and pitch them once every series-that would be roughly 54 games and 162 innings, with 2 or 3 days rest between appearances. That would mean that your four top guys would average 27 starts, but you could skip the 3 & 4 guys if you needed to give 1&2 more starts. Ideally your two-headed fifth starter would have one lefty and one righty, so you could flip the other team’s lineup mid-game. Now that would leave a 6-man bullpen, so to speak. Here’s how you do that: have two “prime set-up guys” (let’s say Acosta and Ascanio) who are expected to pitch the 7th and 8th on alternating days. I maintain that it is better on a pitcher to pitch 3 non-consecutive games in 6 days for 6 innings than it is to pitch 4 games for 4 innings in 6 days and be warmed up in the other two. If they are only needed for one, that is great, and they could pitch on consecutive days if they have an off day the next, but that is the expectation. If the closer (say Soriano) needs to come in the 8th and rescue, that is fine, but the closer needs to never pitch more than two days in a row, nor go more than two days without pitching, regardless of game situation. Our fourth and fifth guys would be situational, say a lefty (Ring or Mahay) who would come in and face one or more tough lefties in a given situation, and be flexible, and also a “utility pitcher” (say Moylan) who could come in for a DP, or a K, or if the closer needed a day off. These guys may need to pitch as many as 3 days consecutively, so you would have to watch their workload. The last spot would be the guy who pitches when we need him, and I would propose a rotaton on this as well. Take a couple of guys (say Devine and Boyer) and rotate them between Atlanta and Richmond. In Richmond they would get regular work to keep them sharp, and if the guy in Atlanta either gets stale from non-use or gets overworked, switch them for a couple of weeks, then keep switching if needed.

I understand about injuries, ineffectiveness, trades, etc., messing up any staff. I do think this is a plan that would reduce dependence on a reliable fifth starter, as well as possibly a third or fourth, utilize the bullpen more effectively and cut down on fatigue. Any thoughts?

By Lee in S. GA

September 20, 2007 7:40 AM | Link to this

When A.J. departs, David DeJesus CF from the Royals would be a valuable acquisition of the Braves if they could trade for him during the off-season. Taking into consideration of J.S. and his past with the royals organization this may be possible to do.

As stated earlier DeJesus is coming into his prime and although he could not come close to matching A.J. with power numbers he could provide the Braves as a more that adequate replacement for Jones.

Too bad the Kyle Davies trade could not have landed Dejesus. Then it would have probably have taken a little more than just Davies to have gotten him.

By Mark Lemke

September 20, 2007 8:10 AM | Link to this

Braves got screwed with the interleague schedule if we had gotten a halfway fair schedule we would still be in the thick of wild card, but when you play the two of best teams in the american league nine games others get to play the likes of the royals and the rangers it is a little unfair….

By Will

September 20, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this

The pressure is off and now the Braves have their first sweep in two months. For some reason i am not surprised.

By Paladin

September 20, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

I wonder if the people who write these long and purely speculative posts think other people read them. But, maybe some do.

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Mark Lemke I dot agree on that schedule comment. If braves were to be champs, their schedule shouldnt be the biggest concern. But more important to me is that braves were not able to beat the nats, the reds, the pirates constantly. Maybe it was better for the braves not to play the royals, maybe the royals would have done to us what the reds did to us and it would be even more pathetic. Any team that used bats to play the game could have beaten the braves if it was 3-5 pitchers turns, reds, pirates, nats, giants, fish, royals, devil rays……you name it.

By ACB

September 20, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this

Whoaaa!! Paladin’s up early today. That good looking candy striper must be doin’ the bedpans today.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

Lee in S. GA and Lester Reyes,

Yeah. Too bad DeJesus is young and cheap, otherwise maybe the Braves would have a chance to trade for him.

By Paladin

September 20, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

Then there are the short and boring ones.

By Randy Newman

September 20, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

Short people got no reason to live.

By Sam

September 20, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this

Great point Will. Kind of sad.

By don

September 20, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

If Teixeira is remotely as good as you people say, the Braves should trade him this winter for some pitching. It is not likely that he will be back after next season anyway and the trade sure didn’t produce as expected this year.

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

Which pitcher was the last one (if any)to win the triple crown?

Im asking as i noticed Peavy is about to do just that. There is almost no way he will not do that, so we already have our Cy young in the NL.

Ask u asked a few days ago, does anybody knows if there is any team that had the batting champion and the runner up and didnt make it to the postseason?

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Don braves need TEX, specially as chipper most like will have some injury again next season. We need corner IF with power, since our middle IF are not power guys. I dont think the braves are thinking on trading TEX, since there is nobody to take his place at the moment, add to that the fact that the braves have had a hard time finding a good 1B last few year, no stability there since galarraga, even the big cat was injuried with his back problems. They finally have a chance to have a corner IF for years to come. TEX looks like a good guy and does the majority of his speaking with his bat and glove. I rather have edgar traded than TEX. Enough for experiments at 1B. It is a key position, you have one of the best at the business……you do whatever you can to keep him. Edgar, James, Diaz, KJ, AJ are more expendable than TEX, thats my opinion.

By KC

September 20, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Is this move a sign that the Braves don’t have a great deal of confidence in Lance Cormier (who was pitching quite well prior to his last start or two)…

OR is it simply that BC sees the writing on the wall in regard to this season, and wants to get a look at one of our pitching prospects before season’s end?

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Overlord, Rockies in 2001 finished 73-89, yet Larry Walker and Todd Helton finished one-two in the batting race.

By Braveheart

September 20, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

is any team that had the batting champion and the runner up and didnt make it to the postseason?

mattingly and winfield in 1984 with the Yankees were one team.

By Braveheart

September 20, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

i hope matt holliday does not win the batting title. the rockies would have won 6 of the last 15 because of their darn ballpark. chipper and edgar must overtake holliday.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

In 1942, Ted Williams led the league at .356 and his Red Sox teammate, Johnny Pesky, was second at .331. Yankees won the pennant. So it’s happened at least once.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Don, I hope you’re kidding. Teixeira has produced about as well as anyone could have expected and then some. And if you trade him and lose AJ, who plays first and hits cleanup next season?

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

I guess that means braves are not alone in that bad stat.

I had the feeling you were going to be the 1st to get that stat Shaun, LOL.

What about the pitcher TC???

By Talent Scout

September 20, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

I will be giving my assessment of some if not all of the Braves players today.Let me first start with Chipper Jones.

Chipper has played one of his best years despite being hurt occasionally. For those who cry that Chipper did not play through injury, I’d submit those people aren’t worth their salt. The spill Chipper took in Pittsburgh was extremely nasty and resulted in a severely sprained wrist. Those of you out there who know hitting know you are not going to hit anything with sprained wrists. This is not an injury that a player cannot will himself through. It has to heal. Not even the god of injured players, Kirk Gibson, could have gone to post. That being said, when CJ was playing, he was consistently good, and more likely great. Despite the rib injuries that could be attributed to age, he continued to play through when he could actually produce a good swing on the ball. Game by game, CJ has no equal this year. I could bore you with stats, but you’ve all heard them. If the Braves were playoff bound, he would be MVP, despite the missed time. His defense has been very good this year and might land him his first gold glove. His range has been decent and he still charges as good as anyone. There is something to say for experience. The big question remains as to whether CJ can put together a year without major injury. My opinion is that he can if he addresses the physiological issues in front of him. Two years running, he has had rib/side muscle injuries, groin injuries, and other various injuries that were, IMO, aberrations. If Chipper maintains an off-season condition program that concentrates on core strength and flexibility, he could have his best year next year. As we all know, Chipper has the skills to be an MVP. If the Braves get a true leadoff hitter and Tex continues to ball, he will see big numbers. All of this is too obvious as CJ is a known commodity and has few weaknesses.

By STRETCH

September 20, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

I wish there was a way to keep Renteria, cause this guy and Chipper continue to produce, they have shown it all season. Gotta do what ya gotta do though if you want some pitching.

Soriano continues to give up home runs, im really worried about this guy.

By Braveheart

September 20, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

dave parker and rennie stennett (who the hell is that?) did it in 1976 with the pirates.

norm cash and al kaline with the tigers in 1961 were another.

well, i’m not bored enough to go past 1960.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Since divisional play began in 1969, two teams besides the 2001 Rockies has had teammates finish 1-2 in the race for the batting title yet miss the postseason: the 1977 Twins (Rod Carew .388; Lyman Bostock .336) and the 1984 Yankees (Don Mattingly .343; Dave Winfield .336). The Rockies are the only team so far to achieve this dubious distinction in the wild card era.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Overlord, Braves are not alone but offense hasn’t really been the problem with this team. They are probably the second-best offensive team in the league.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Talent Scout, the Braves have a “true” leadoff hitter. His name is Kelly Johnson.

By DAP

September 20, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

wjones a plan like youve mentioned has been mentioned before (not exactly as well put as you did it, though) and just like the other plans mentioned, its a great plan when everything goes to plan. theproblem comes when some thing doesnt work right, and your #1 starter gets shelled for some reason, then youre screwed for days cause youve got to use your 6th starer or a couple of bullpen guys and then they cant go the next day if they need to and… well you get the point. plans just dont always work out, so youve got to have enough starters to get all of them decent rest, and then have a bunch of guys in reserve. something will always come up you didnt plan for, so you need to be versatile.

roles for the pitching staff need to be defined loosly enough to take care of variations.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Talent Scout:

Chipper’s a good player. He has a chance to be great again if he takes care of himself and has an injury-free season.

That’s all you really said. See how much shorter and less boring your post is when you pare it down?

Try it now with Andruw.

By ernesto

September 20, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Tomko is on the mound for SD today, LA and Colorado play each other, we have our fate in our own hands, or rather Jeff Bennett’s, with teh Brew Crew.

If we win tonight and Colorado and SD lose as well…it gets even more interesting.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Braveheart,

It was 1977, and Rennie Stennett didn’t have enough at-bats that year to qualify.

By The Scout of the Talent Scout

September 20, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

The Talent Scout is an up and coming unknown blogger with a name never seen here before. Quite a bit of potential to work with. If he learns to break his paragraphs up during the offseason to make it easier for the reader to read what he says, he should be in good shape next season. The Talent Scout must also learn that stats are never boring. Stats are the language of baseball. Talent Scout has some talent on him but talent scout has some things to work on. TS is an unknown commodity with a few weaknesses. Hopefully, he will address these things before he breaks down each player for us. So sez The Scout of the Talent Scout.

By Rickey

September 20, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

It is Great Skip is back because he is great in his job! He made watching the Braves in TV better. I hope Skip keeps feeling Great! Atlanta Braves Fan, Rickey Bolton

By DAP

September 20, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

don i dont like to call people anmes on here, but you are an idiot. what do you mean “as good as you people say he is”?

we say alot on here about tex’s ability, and we base it on his stats! so here for you, are the FACTS about mark teixeria. the source of this is not ME, it is from MLB:

overall, hes batting .311 26hrs 94rbi .973OPS

for the braves in 45 games: .333avg 13hrs 45rbi 1.030 OPS

you KNOW that those stats are great, or youre just an idiot. either way, hush.

By Lew

September 20, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Stretch-On closer inspection of Soriano’s record, I fail to see why you’re worried. He has given up one HR in his past 13 games. He has given up 12 all year and the Braves lost five of them. Of those five losses, only two were close games-the rest were blow outs, anyway. So if you look at it like this, he gave up HR’s in TWO games that were close that the Braves lost-possibly attributable to Soriano. I’ll take a reliever any day that gives up HR’s that convert to only two close losses in 67 games pitched. Those were his two blown saves. TWO. Only two. Not to mention his 3.18ERA, despite those HR’s.

By Amber

September 20, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Amen, Talent Scout.

Chipper is, quite simply, The Man. Well, when Smoltz isn’t being The Man. Injuries or not, we are lucky to have Chipper. He comes back after getting hurt and shows everyone else in the league how it’s done. He doesn’t miss a beat, doesn’t need time to get back in the “swing” of things. I’ll take Chipper, yearly DL stint or not, over any other player.

Can you really blame him for his hand injury anyway? He was playing hard and it was a freak accident. If he hadn’t made the dive, you all would have dogged him for not hustling.

I would never call the Tex trade a dud. It just wasn’t the piece to give us the division this year. We just need to give him a longer term deal so we don’t lose him in another year. He fits perfectly with the team and the organization, and no one would be questioning the trade if we had the pitching.

Oh, and just read the Skip piece. Grumpy old man or not, he’s a class act.

By The Scout of the Scout of the Talent Scout

September 20, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

The Scout of the Talent Scout has exactly the smart-a* brand of humor that can effectively skewer the more pretentious (e.g., jjs, bob the hack) and arrogant (Talent Scout and — need we say more, shaun?) posters here. A definite keeper!

By Braveheart

September 20, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Thank you seeker of the head. it was 1977. i did not read close enough on baseball-reference.com about his at bats. who the hell was that guy anyway and who gave him an MVP vote in 1974 and why did they do that?

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Thanks for your contributions Shaun, Braveheart, and BMTHOFC.

Well maybe we will be the 2nd team in the WC ERA, What hurts little more is that the rockies situation is totally diferent, since they could end a season with the 5 best hitters in the league and still not make it to the playoffs.

What about the collapses we are about to witness, not to say that tehy will happen. But which will be bigger. Bosox letting a 13.5 lead (or something like that) vanish and losing the division title? or the muts having some 7 games lead over phillies and then not even make the playoffs?

What about those yankees, i really think that if their big guns (clemens, mussina, petit) keep pitching as they have been doing last few outings, specially petit (10-2 i think ……lately) it will be very hard to beat them. This guys are veterans, maybe half the team has tons of playoffs experience, proven winners.

Wonder if the fall classic will ever end if the yanks and the phillies get there……..lots of hitting bad pitching (that is if the yankees pitching suddenly goes back to their dull days).

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Best I recall, Robert (JIB) predicted 20 homers and 50 RBIs for Teixeira after the trade, and I scoffed at him. Well, he’ll be pretty darn close to those projections by season’s end — might even have more than 50 RBIs. Sorry, Robert!

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

The Scout of the Scout of the Talent Scout, I’m only arrogant in the fact that I recognize my own ignorance and rely on evidence and smarter persons’ research over my own understanding.

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Ernesto are you a braves fan? or are you a phillies fan or something?

Or what did you mean with interesting? I mean the braves are 5.5GB.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Rennie Stennett had flashes of greatness, but he was out of the game by age 31.

In 1975, he became only the second player to go 7-for-7 in a nine-inning game, as the Pirates beat the Cubs, 22-0.

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

And if you still have some hope on the braves catching anyone, it should be the muts since we are 5.5 GB of them also, and they are playing bad, SD is doing very good. Phillies are in front and are doing super.

By The Scout of the Scout of the Scout of the Talent Scout

September 20, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

We scouts think The Scout of the Scout of the Talent Scout be a cantankerous cancer in the clubhouse. An ill-mannered bugger. So sez the Scout of the Scout of the Scout of the Talent Scout.

By Ray

September 20, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Welcome back, Skip!! I miss you on the broadcasts!

Ray

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Overlord, I’m not sure. I would think the Mets not making the playoffs would be a bigger story because most of us knew or should have known the Yankees weren’t really as bad as they played earlier in the season and things would probably even out eventually for them (see run differential).

Plus if the Yankees end up winning the division, the Red Sox are still going to make the playoffs, and if the Sox go deeper in the playoffs, will their collapse be that big a deal? I know that’s a lot of if’s but the Yankees and Red Sox are really not that far apart in terms of how good they are no matter how the standings end up at the end of the year.

By Braveheart

September 20, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Rennie Stennett had flashes of greatness, but he was out of the game by age 31. In 1975, he became only the second player to go 7-for-7 in a nine-inning game, as the Pirates beat the Cubs, 22-0.

Well, hot digetty damn. The Head Hunter is a regular freaking walking Wikipedia. Is this why you need Francisco Cabrera’s head? Too much information crammed inside your dome so you need the head of another to store the rest of your information inside of?

By The Scout of the Scout of Shaun

September 20, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Shaun possesses heretofore unparalleled tenacity in arguing with even the most stubborn blogger. Many a poster who was in the right has screamed “Uncle!” under the onslaught of stats Shaun can provide to back up even his specious stances. Shaun takes himself and his lofty pursuit of “truth” far too seriously, however, and as a result, his dry, humorless and oftentimes endless posts can quickly grow tiresome as all hell.

Recommend sending him down to the Mets blog for more seasoning. The ridicule he’ll face there will do him a lot of good, and the respite from his arrogance will gice this blog a much-needed airing out.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Braveheart —

LOL! No, just a longtime Pirates fan, which explains both the Rennie recall and the burning desire for Francisco Cabrera’s head!

By The Sundance Kid

September 20, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

David Dejesus. Jeff Bennett. Rennie Stennett.

Hey Butch, who are those guys?

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 20, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Sundance,

Funny line! Great movie!

Go Pirates!

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

ncscoots: Ah… the FA pitching market. It’s terrible. It’s why trading is about the only way we’d get anything helpful. Glavine being the only option out there, and even he isn’t a sure bet FA. Now if only Lew would review the list… I’m curious to see if he can find a diamond in that rough.

I’m also curious about this offseason. This is the first one in a long time where the team has flexability in it’s moves.

I picked the Brewers to win the Central. I’d like to win that bet. But I’d love it even more if the Braves swept them and continued winning until the final day of the season. 2nd place is completely within reach. 3 games left against those dirty Phillies. Pick up some ground this weekend then, roll into Phillie and smack ‘em down into 3rd place. After that, celebrate in Houston by pounding that team into a bloody pulp.

GO BRAVES!!

By BossLady

September 20, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Great Article, Carroll. Skip Caray has been around a verrry long time and while I bicker at his comments and tune him out, it’s like something will truly be missing with Atlanta Braves announcers. Does that make sense? He is like a part of the package that we just are accustomed to without noticing. And yet, I felt a twinge of sorrow when I read the article. It goes right up there with, Days Gone Past and Times Are Changing. So sad…..

By mr baseball

September 20, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

For anyone on this blog who still thinks the Braves have the slighest chance to make the playoffs, consider the schedule for last 11 days of the season:

7 of the Mets last 11 games are against the Marlins, the other 4 are home games against Washington (3) and St. Louis (1). I don’t care how bad the Mets are playing, there’s no way they don’t win at least 5 or 6 of those games, which means the Braves would have to go 10-0. Ain’t gonna happen.

How about the wild card? The 2 teams the Braves have to catch are the Phillies & Padres. Other than the 3 games against Atlanta (in Philadelphia), the Phillies’ other 7 games are against the Nationals. The Braves could catch the Phillies IF they go 8-2 (3-1 vs. Brewers, 2-1 vs. Phillies, 3-0 vs. Astros) and the Phillies go no better than 4-3 against the Nationals. That’s within the realm of possibility.

As for the Padres: If the Braves go 8-2, which is about as rosy a scenario as can be painted, the Padres would have to go 3-8 for the Braves to catch them. That means losing to the Pirates & Matt Morris tonight; losing 2 of 3 at home to the Rockies; losing 2 of 3 in San Francisco; losing 3 of 4 in Milwaukee to a Brewers team that will likely already have been eliminated from playoff contention.

The chances of that happening are about the same as Dubya coming to the conclusion that he has totally screwed things up in Iraq & starts withdrawing troops next week. Not very likely.

For all the geniuses on here who have prattled on and on about how lousy a pitcher Chuck James is, a few numbers (not all stats up to the last minute).

Livan Hernandez, 10-10, 4.86

Bronson Arroyo, 9-14, 4.31

Dontrelle Willis, 9-15, 5.34

Jeff Suppan, 10-11, 4.72

Jamie Moyer, 13-11, 5.12

Matt Morris, 9-10, 4.84

Barry Zito, 9-12, 4.41

Chuck James, 11-10, 4.11

Please compare James’ numbers & salary to those of the other 7 pitchers. Anyone who doesn’t come to the conclusion that he is a very respectable middle of the rotation starter needs to consider whether he actually has a clue about Major League Baseball in the year 2007.

What does it say about an alleged playoff contender that starts a AAA pitcher in a crucial late season game, not because there are a bunch of sore arms on the pitching staff, but because he is supposedly the best available? And said AAA pitcher wasn’t even in the minor league team’s rotation until several weeks ago. That J.D. Drew trade is looking really smart right about now.

By Talent Scout

September 20, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

And now Edgar Renteria.

The talk has been lately to use ER to procure pitching. ER is a great hitter and a very good clutch hitter. He’d probably be approaching 200 hits and 100 runs scored if not for the injury to his ankle. And again, if the Braves were going to the playoffs, he would garner some MVP votes. As it is, he will battle for the batting title from a good position; batting in front of Chipper and Tex. He is a picture of consistency, batting .339 with RISP. As far as I can see there is no stat that measures crucial hits, where a hit has a direct impact on the outcome of a game. If they measured them, he would probably be in the top five. I am preaching to the choir about his hitting ability. He would be a good leadoff man if he had more speed.

His defense is rather average. His arm is average. His range is average to below average. He doesn’t perform as well going to his right because of the range and arm strength. He is not a liability though. He makes most of the plays he is expected to make and therefore grades out OK.

We have a serious player in Renteria. He plays hard, plays well, and never complains. He is a winner and sometimes that cannot be measured. He is perfect for an AB clubhouse where professionalism is king.

It would seem that his strength is also his weakness in this situation. His value is so appealing and with the undercurrent of talent floating to the top, ER may be expendable. After all, you can’t play at the big table without a big chip. If the Braves cannot acquire a 1 or 2 pitcher with ER, I’d hope they’d keep him. Nothing would be worse than trading him for some guy who turns out to be mediocre. What a waste that would be. But if such an unlikely deal were to be presented, we have the talent to move into his position. I don’t think any replacement will ever hit as well and as consistent, but there are gains in defense to be made. We could go either way, but whatever makes the Braves a better team is the way to go.

Note to my scout- Shaun will undoubtedly provide stats upon request. Most of us here know them already.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

mr baseball, JD Drew trade already looked smart, it netted the Braves a division title in 2004.

By DAP

September 20, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

mr baseball ….so youre telling me there’s a chance!!!!! YEAH!!!!

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Talent Scout, Renteria may not be traded for just one guy. The Braves would probably have to settle for a decent pitcher but would probably get another player, maybe two.

By ernesto

September 20, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Overlord, I’ve been called a lot of things, but nothing as bad as a Phillies fan.

Look SD loses, Colorado loses we’re only 4.5 back and we leap over another team - we already jumped over the BrewCrew, we have 3 left with Philly…

It’s a long shot I know, but I’m just saying we win tonight, a couple of teams lose tonight and things get a little more possible.

By Greg in TN

September 20, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Afternoon lads and lasses…

Carroll, thank you for the update Skip Carey. Some don’t like him, but I’ve grown up with him and love the guy. I like the FSN/SportSouth broadcasts with Boog and Joe, but I look back fondly on the days when it was Skip, Pete and Ernie Johnson Sr behind the mike.

A delightful several days at the ballpark with the team exorcising some past demons with a sweep of the Fins. We have Ned Yost and the Brew Crew coming in this weekend eager to take first place in the Central. I like Ned, I like the Brewers, but let’s let them gain some ground at the expense of someone else.

Go Braves!

By TommyB

September 20, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

They should add a 3rd mike and chair for Pete for the last TBS game. And maybe a 4th for Ernie Senior, if he’s up to it.

It’s the right thing to do.

By dadgum

September 20, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Everybody loves to come up with stats to back up points. Fact is that with Renteria being a free agent next year and Escobar lighting it up, Edgar can bring a top pitcher in return. The fact that he is batting so well is even more of a reason to use him in a trade. Don’t get me wrong Edgar is a fine player ditto Kelly Johnson but they both can be replaced easily. Don’t get so hung up on stats or remember a few plays that cloud reality. You can bet Edgar Renteria will be traded.

Folks, it is entirely possible the Braves can end up with the top two in BA in the NL and finish way down the line in the standings. How does that make you feel about the pitching or lack of timely hitting. I say the Braves will trade both Johnson and Renteria to acquire the necessary pitching. Stats and a few errors be damned. Ya’ll think about it.

Rock on…….Led Zeppelin, the world’s greatest rock band ever, reunites. Thunder of the Gods. The Song Remains the Same.

By ernesto

September 20, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Shaun, the JD Drew trade looked smart in 2004, watching Adam take down the Phils last night…I dont’ know…

Beside, how can you know who would have played right that year if not JD, it’s not like the spot would have been empty.

By The Scout of the scoutof the Talent Scout

September 20, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Oh sh!t, I forgot what I was going to say.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

ernesto, of course we’re not sure who would have played right. But then again, how could you know Wainwright would have a successful career in the majors? Young pitching is very unpredictable and is the farthest from a sure thing as any other category of players. You can take a big gamble and not trade a young pitcher for an MVP-type player that can fill a hole for you. Or you can keep the young pitcher in hopes that he’ll turn out to be at least pretty good, and hope that you find a halfway decent right fielder that will allow you to win 90-plus instead of 80-plus.

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

The goal for these Bravos is to recapture second place in the division. That is completely within reach.

The JD Drew trade. For anyone still living in the 2003/2004 offseason, that trade is long since gone and netted the Braves a chance at the World Series. Get over it. It wasn’t a bad trade it helped both teams, one instantly, the other 3 years later. That’s baseball.

By ernesto

September 20, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Tommy B - Amen on Pete, he deserves a mic for sure. I miss the Professor.

By David O'Brien

September 20, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Mr Baseball, agreed with you all the way on Chuck and playoff picture, etc, everything until the last line about the J.D. Drew trade. Gotta let that one go, man. If the Braves had won the pennant with J.D., which they weren’t too far from doing, then the retrospective on that trade wouldn’t be the same.

You can’t be afraid to make moves that better your club in the near-term, if you think you’re getting the piece that could put you over the top (which they though J.D. could, and Teixeira could), just because some folks will Monday-morning quarterback the trade for years to come. Every single veteran GM has a handful of trades like that, if not many more, that people second-guess with the benefit of hindsight.

When you’re in charge of things, making moves, you can’t be afraid and gun-shy to make trades. You have to live with the criticism, because that’s not why you’re in charge, to kow-tow around and worry about preserving all your minor league pitching prospects.

Gammons had a very good point in current Baseball America, where he listed all of BA’s top-rated prospects of the past decade or so and pointed out how very few of them ever amounted to much in the majors. It’s a crapshoot with prospects, and a great minor league system doesn’t just benefit from using its own prospects, but from being able to use them to make deals and bring in proven players.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

dadgum, I prefer to use stats to find answers not to back up points.

By ernesto

September 20, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

By the way, the chance of SD losing tonight wtih Brett 3-11 Tomko on the mound ain’t all the remote.

Is this the first ever appearance by DOB on a CR blog? First I remember.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Is the Braves offense inconsistent or does it lack timely hitting?

Well, the NL average for runs per game is 4.69.

The Braves have scored 4 runs or fewer in 75 games. Only three times have done it in fewer games and one has done it in as many. No team has done it under 72 times.

The Braves have scored 4 runs or more 94 times. Six teams have done it more and only one team has done it as many. The Phillies have done it 109 times, Colorado 98 and Cincy 99 (all play home games in hitter’s parks, although the Phillies are a great offensive club even so). No other team has done it more than 96 times.

Braves offense has some weaknesses but whose doesn’t? They have just as few offensive weaknesses as any other club. Preventing runs was clearly the problem this season.

By mr baseball

September 20, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

Instead of trading Marquis & Wainwright to the Cards for a one-year rental of J.D. Drew, the Braves could have signed either Jose Guillen or Raul Ibanez as free agents. (Those are the only 2 that I remember, there may have been other options.) Guillen had a better season in ‘04 than Drew did, and Ibanez had a decent season even though he spent a month on the DL. Please don’t refer to Guillen’s attitude issues. Drew is not exactly the ideal teammate either.

The Braves GM has an aversion to signing free agents for market value, as opposed to trading prospects for players in the last year of affordable contracts, and then letting them walk. He is the No. 1 reason the Braves are not going to make the playoffs this season. Not Chance the Manager, not Andruw, not the parade of lousy pitchers at the bottom of the rotation.

Schuerholz is responsible for leaving this team without adequate depth in their starting pitching. When it was obvious this season the team needed help, the best he could come up with was Mark Redman. The Cards picked up Pineiro mid-season for nothing and the Dodgers signed Wells, who was available to everybody. I think the 2 of them are 8-3 combined.

Schuerholz has given up far too much in the way of prospects than he has gotten in return for his rentals, just about every one of whom was a miserable failure in the post-season. (Not his fault, necessarily, but an interesting fact to consider.) If Mahay walks after this season and Tex signs a huge contract with somebody else after ‘08, that trade will not look too brilliant, even if the Braves make the post-season next year.

Given the recent performances of the manager and the GM, I wouldn’t put much money on that happening.

By Lew

September 20, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, that’s where your problem lies. You should use other’s research to ENHANCE and AUGMENT your evaluation-not rely on them to form your opinion. It’s called creative thinking. You should try it sometime. You may find it liberating.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, exactly! And minor league pitching takes Gammons’s point to the extreme. Look at the Braves great staff of the ’90s. Even the team with a greatest reputation for developing pitchers really only drafted and developed one consistently good starter—Glavine. Granted he was so good he maybe should count as two.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Lew, yeah, that’s a real problem to let evidence dictate and inform your opinion than to jump to conclusions and come up with evidence that may back them up.

mr baseball, Guillen had a good year but Drew had an MVP-type year. Not sure what you are looking at. And Drew’s a bad teammate? That’s news to me. I’ve never heard of him arguing with managers or anything of that sort.

If you knew Wainwright was going to be a decent starter in the majors back in the 2003-04 off-season, why don’t you tell us which 21-year-old minor league starter is going to become a decent starter four years from now?

By dadgum

September 20, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Can i have your attention for this brief commercial…….

You are all invited down to the Brother Jim’s Holy Pentecostal and Faith Healing Tent Revival tonight from 8-10. Fans will be handed out so let the amens flow. Shortly afterward Sister Sylvia will have everyone over for a cake cutting and lemonade social on the back lawn. Dress is casual but no tank tops. Flip flops are fine. Bring a friend. I-85 south at exit 84 on the frontage road.

Please resume your normal blogging.

By Lew

September 20, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Mr.Baseball-A combined 8-3 record from pitchers we may or may not have been able to get wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference. You speak of lack of pitching depth, yet why did we have a lack of pitching depth? Could it have been because two of our starters (Hampton and Cormier) went down during and at the end of spring training? Could it have been because when they did go down, we were still under the financial (or lack thereof) control of AOL/TW? Dude, it didn’t matter who was inserted into the #5 slot this year-they all failed. The way things went this season, Wells never would have won a game for us. You have to work with what you have (Didn’t Rummy say that once) and you have to work with the budget you have. That’s a fairly simple concept. Don’t quite understand how you can blame JS for pitchers’ injuries. We lost Hampton, Cormier(twice), Gonzalez, Paronto, James,Dotel, Lerew and even Smoltz to injuries this year. That’s one hell of a lineup to have to replace. I’m not real sure anyone could replace it effectively.

By Talent Scout

September 20, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Next up: Kelly Johnson

KJ has been a pleasant surprise this years in some respects. He has shown signs of becoming a very dangerous hitter, but will go through periods where he disappears. Some might attribute that to lack of playing time. I think the opposite. I think he gets into ruts when opposing teams get around to scouting him out. Then, after BC sits him a couple of games here and there, he gets going again, like a record with a scratch on it that only needs to be bumped. The thing that makes a good MLer is the ability to reduce/overcome your weaknesses after the league finds out what they are. KJ has done well in this area for the most part, but with some prodding. He is fast, yet not the type of speed used to manufacture runs via the SB. He stole 9 bases and was successful only 65% of the time. This is not the prototypical lead-off man. So if the personnel changes or lack thereof casts KJ back into the lead-off role, I’d say they could do much better. Hitting 7th or 8th, that’s all good. 110 strikeouts doesn’t bode well for lead-off.

Defensively, as many have noted and many have apologized for, KJ is, at best, average in his defensive abilities. He has made some crucial errors that led to losses. Not all his fault but he contributed. Some will say he is still learning, but IMO, he lacks the footspeed and instinct to play the position well. For that reason, the Braves need to make a decision. Either Abandon this project now and get moving toward the future with another 2B or reposition him back out to the OF. Chipper and Smoltz may only have a season or two left in them. If the Braves want to continue to place a square peg in a round hole, that’s their business, but it is my hope they will do everything to get them back to post-season.

My recommendation is to either reposition or trade.

By KC

September 20, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

dadgum: You are correct. In all likelihood, Renteria will be traded.

However, I don’t know that Renteria would bring a “top pitcher” in return. Because he is a free agent at the end of next season, his trade value won’t be as high as it would be if he has multiple seasons remaining.

Don’t get me wrong… Renteria is one of the league’s leading hitters, a great clutch hitter, and an excellent shortstop, AND with Boston paying almost half his salary, he’s a bargain at 6 mill next season…

So he WILL have significant trade value for any team that could use a shortstop and wants to make a post-season run NEXT year.

I don’t know that Renteria by himself would bring a top pitcher… but anyone that doesn’t think we should trade him should look at it this way:

Let’s say that Renteria could bring a decent center-fielder in return. Or, when packaged with some other players, could bring a quality starter. OR his 6 million being cleared helps allow the Braves the money to pursue a free agent center-fielder or starter.

Now let’s say Renteria ISN’T already a Brave, but we have a chance this winter to add him.

Given that we already have Escobar at SS, but have a hole in our rotation and a hole in CF…

Which would you choose? A center-fielder, a starter, or Renteria?

Keeping Renteria would be a luxury. And given our need for at least one more starter, and a center-fielder… it’s a luxury we can’t afford.

By KC

September 20, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

MR. BASEBALL: Agree on playoff hopes. There are none left.

In other news..

KEEP YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS TO YOURSELF. THIS ISN’T THE PLACE FOR THEM, AND WE DON’T WANT TO HEAR THEM.

By AZBravoFan

September 20, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

For those like me that can’t let go yet, don’t forget about the D’backs. They have the same number of losses as the Pads. They’ve got 3 with the Dodgers, then go on the road for 3 in Pitt. and 3 at Coors. They’re a young streaky team that’s not above dropping 6 or 7 out of nine in any one stretch. This all assuming of course that the Braves improbable win streak continues. Funny thing is the Braves are in exactly the same position as this time last year. Right before melting down in Colorado.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Talent Scout, here’s a more telling take on Kelly Johnson that won’t take that long: .283 AVG/.381 OBP/.471 SLG when the average second baseman is at .277/.339/.417.

By Lew

September 20, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Yes, it is a problem to go through your entire life letting others tell you what you should think. Shows great presence of mind, doesn’t it? How utterly boring, frustrating and so un-creative to not have your own original thought.

When I was about to write my Master’s Thesis in grad school, I was worried, because in essence, you are supposed to write something completely new and unique to the field. My Major Professor (a man with a PhD from Columbia) said something I’ve never forgotten. He said that all you need to become an expert in your subject, is to come up with a hypothesis and find facts and figures to use to prove your hypothesis-then write it up. You know what? He was absolutely right. But maybe that’s why I’m writing my second book instead of just reading something someone else wrote.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

I have known the pain of Horacio Ramirez in the starting rotation, so let me get next. Try remembering your enthusiasm when your team made the biggest, splashiest deadline deal of the season (Mark Teixeira), realizing that addition has raked since he got to town, that your team has a better Pythagorean record than either team ahead of it in the standings, and your team still won’t sniff the playoffs.

How you like that? You knew the Mariners weren’t good. I know the Braves are, I think.

The Mets’ tailspin should be opening the door to October for the Braves. Atlanta should be preparing to find a 14th way in 17 seasons to blow a postseason series. Instead, we’re where we’ll be until April — third place. And it just doesn’t make any sense. Great, now my head hurts again.

As for the Yankees, there’s only one reason you know Jim Leyritz’s name, and the thought makes my stomach hurt.

— Bomani Jones from ESPN.com Page 2, “You think you’ve got it bad? Wait till you read this”

By KC

September 20, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

LEW: I think your 1:32 post was right on.

The Braves had every reason to be optimistic about Hampton heading into this season. Statistically (and based on what they’d seen of his recovery heading into the spring) there was a very high probability that he would return this year.

However, I don’t think anyone should think that the Braves were sunk because they sat on their thumbs and waited for Hampton to come around.

How much quality starting pitching has changed hands in the last 12 months??? If the Braves had been presented with an opportunity last winter to acquire another top-of-rotation caliber starter, I’d bet sensitive body parts they would have pulled the trigger.

The Braves also had great reason to believe that Chuck James would be better than he was this year, and that either Cormier or Davies (both of whom were dominant in the spring) could contribute to this rotation.

Injuries (Hampton, Cormier), and underperformance (Davies and to a lesser extent, James) is what hurt the rotation this year.

But again, I seriously doubt the Braves stood pat and weren’t interested in improving the rotation from outside the organization last winter. There just weren’t any real opportunities to do so.

And no should think the Braves will bank on Hampton for next year, and not do all they can to add at least one more quality starter. I’m probably won’t even take a lecture from Mark Bradley to motivate them to pursue another starter. I’m positive that a starter (not a center-fielder) is the NUMBER-1 offseason target.

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

dadgum: still pushing the it ain’t broke, so let’s fix it campaign. Kelly Johnson is young, affordable, offensively talented and defensively serviceable. He has a higher ceiling than Marteen. Why replace a guy with a year of success under his belt with a guy with practically no major league experience? If KJ is traded, I’ll be surprised. If it nets a solid arm in return, I won’t be disappointed. If he is traded for a reliever or 5th starter and Marteen is slid into his spot, I’ll be furious. I might even take the belligerent frame of mind mr. baseball takes with the JD Drew trade…. half a decade from now I’ll be calling JS out for trading Kelly. Just reminded me of this…

[The Costanza house, Queens]
(Steinbrenner knocking at the door about to inform the Costanza’s their son, George, is dead. Estelle opens the door)
STEINBRENNER: Mrs. Costanza?
ESTELLE (smiling): Yesss?
STEINBRENNER: My name is George Steinbrenner, I’m afraid I have some very sad new about your son.
ESTELLE: (gasps)

(Costanza living room)
ESTELLE (crying): I can’t believe it, he was so young. How could this have happened?
STEINBRENNER: Well, he’d been logging some pretty heavy hours, first one in in the morning, last one to leave at night. That kid was a human dynamo.
ESTELLE: Are you sure you’re talking about George?
STEINBRENNER: You are Mr. and Mrs. Costanza?
FRANK (yelling): What the hell did you trade Jay Buhner for?!? He had 30 home runs, and over 100 RBIs last year. He’s got a rocket for an arm - - you don’t know what the hell you’re doin’!!
STEINBRENNER: Well, Buhner was a good prospect, no question about it. But my baseball people love Ken Phelps’ bat. They kept saying ‘Ken Phelps, Ken Phelps’.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Lew, isn’t a hypothesis basically the same thing as a question then you find facts and figures to answer the question? That’s the way I look at research.

You don’t just say, “My hypothesis is Bobby Cox is a bad manager” then come up with things that you think makes him a bad manager (does that example sound familar?). No, you ask the question “Is Bobby Cox a good or bad manager?” then you look for fact and figures that can answer the question.

I would hope that’s the way you approach your research. The creative part is coming up with questions/issues that no one else thinks about and trying to express the fact and figures in ways that are interesting.

By Ole Prof

September 20, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

For those of you who regret losing the Braves on TBS. The only Braves telecasts I got was on TBS. I remedied that by subscribing to MLBTV. About $90 per year gets all the braaves games, AND every game for every team played that day, and all the reruns I want, going back acouple of years. I could watch baseball 30 hours a day, and still nit see it all. With DSL and a 20” flat screen monitor, It’s as good as TV… Something to think about !!!!!!!

By Ole Prof

September 20, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

So, Idon’t type too well, (miasspelled words), But I think you get the point…Ohh, Selected spring training games are included.

By DAP

September 20, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

KC youre absolutly right. there may not seemto be much free agent pitching, but no doubt there is someone who will at least help this club. if we could trade renteria(and maybe a prospect) to, say, the giants for davis a corriea, i think youve got to do that, because you get a pitcher that throws hard and could be real good for you, you cover center field without paying a free agent, and you get some salary cut to spend elsewhere.

if we fill center field with a ML minimum kinda guy, we get $6 mil out of rent and wick’s contract, and $13 mil out of andruws…thats $25 mil we didnt have before and only one place to fill holes, the rotation.

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Payne: The Hypothesis is supposed to be a statement, not a question. The research is to either prove or disprove the statement. One can state a Hypothesis and have it be wrong. That is part of the original research. That is part of what Lew is saying, though he highlighted the successful side of the matter. But, a fair and balanced researcher should be willing and able to hypothesize, research, and admit when he is wrong, showing proof of why the hypothesis is wrong. It is more than simply asking a question and then regurgitating an answer some one else came up with, then brandishing it as the gospel truth.

By TennesseePaul

September 20, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

I just re-read Payne’s Hypothesis post… I’m surprised. Honestly. Surprised you don’t understand what an Hypothesis is, or the research involved there in. For starters Payne, here is the definition:

1 a : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument
1 b : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action

2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences

3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement.

Hopefully this will help you in your pursuit of truth.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, true. But answering an issue or a question seems to come in there somewhere.

Say I’m a certain poster and my hypothesis is that Bobby Cox is a bad manager. I’m going to have to answer questions like what makes a manager good or bad, how good or bad can a manager possibly be, and finally is Bobby Cox good or bad and to what degree? (That is, if I want to be fair, which said poster may not care about.)

My point is, you are not hypothesizing “Cox is a bad manager” then seeking things that only support Cox being a bad manager.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, also I see nothing wrong with using (or as you say “regurgitating”) other’s work, as long as you have a valid reason for doing so. Happens all the time in research; people build on knowledge that has come from past research.

For example, when people start bringing up the Braves choking in the playoffs and it’s Cox’s fault, I build upon the research of folks like Dayn Perry and Nate Silver that found that large factors in post-season success are the quality of a team’s closer, the quality of a team’s defense and the strikeout rate of the pitching staff. The Braves haven’t had one or all of those ingredients in many of their post-season appearances so I conclude that it’s not Cox’s fault, at least not directly and obviously…unless he’s telling Schuerholz to build teams without those factors, which seems unlikely.

By mr baseball

September 20, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Lew:

Please don’t play the “boo-hoo, we have had so many injuries to our pitching” card. Compared to teams like the Phillies & Cards, the Braves have been extremely healthy from a pitching standpoint. There have been the grand total of 2 injuries of consequence — Hampton & Gonzalez. Cormier is a third rate pitcher who is a fill-in starter at best. The fact that he pitched well in Spring Training fooled a lot of people into thinking he’s a Major League caliber starter. He ain’t.

As usual, the defenders of the GM point to his hands being tied by salary restrictions. That’s a BS excuse that Schuerholz has hidden behind for years. Evidently, there was $$$$ available for Tex & Dotel. JS would not have had to break the bank to acquire a back of the rotation starter like Fogg or Trachsel who would have at least given the Braves a chance to win some games at the bottom of the rotation.

Davies not being ready yet for a regular spot in the rotation really hurt, but JS was clearly unprepared for the possibility of Hampton breaking down again. He has damaged the team badly in the past with very ill-conceived trades — Grissom/Justice/Dye, Klesko/Boone, the unloading of a huge chunk of pitching prospects for short term (or no-term) gains — with the latest being the LaRoche deal. After the acquisition of Soriano, trading for Gonzalez was not necessary, with the result being the trade of a bunch of prospects who could have been used to acquire what the Braves really needed — starting pitching.

Shaun:

On second look, Drew had a slightly better season in ‘04 than Guillen, but was that difference worth trading both Marquis & Wainwright, especially with the likelihood that Drew was only going to be here one year? The Cards were actively looking to get rid of him, and the Braves gave them more than I bet their GM thought he could get in return.

The irony is that the Cards found a perfectly adequate replacement for Drew with a Braves reject. Reggie Sanders has been a quality player every place he’s played in the majors with one glaring exception. According to the conventional wisdom, Bobby Cox gets the best out of everyone who plays for him. Obviously, not everyone.

That same conventional wisdom says Schuerholz is the sharpest GM in the game. Just goes to show what 3 Hall of Fame starters and maybe the best farm system in the game can do to enhance the reputations of some people.

Gotta get back to work now. Any and all can point out the errors of my decidely minority opinions.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 20, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

The Hypothesis is equal to the sum of the square of the other two opinions…..

Fact, we cannot change the past, that is unless you are the guy in charge of writing the history book. Or put another way, the winner gets to write the account of the battle.

Knowing all this, it is useless to prepare to fight the battle already lost. Move on folks, time to look forward.

I saw Bennett pitch Saturday against Durham, he is around the strike zone a lot. He has a decent fastball and a very good changeup. His slider is decent but his out pitch is the change. He will pitch to contact but changes speeds well.

If he pitches the same in the majors as he pitched here in Richmond, Braves fans will be very happy. I expect him to give up a few runs tonight but he will give the team a chance to win. He is a better pitcher than Carlyle.

By Paladin

September 20, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

“Some people use statistics and hypotheses the way a drunkard uses a streetlamp—-for support, not illumination.”

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, I understand a hypothesis and I didn’t mean to give that impression. I just think there’s more to research than a hypothesis and looking for things that back up the hypothesis. There are lots of questions that have to be asked and answered in any research project. I don’t think you would deny that.

And why is using only original things in your research a more noble thing than relying on someone who may have done more than you or building on other’s research? Shouldn’t good researchers actually be aware of and understand research that has been done on the particular subject they want to deal with? I think that’s only responsible.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 20, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Shaun One of the most difficult task we often face is to accept facts for what they are and not be predudiced by our own experiences. It is human nature to ignore facts that do not fir with our preconceived notions of the truth.

It is even more so when those notions involve money, or so it appears. Therefore, remember the immortal words of Mark Twain, “The newspapers never let a little thing like the truth stand in the way of a good story”.

As for another questionable truism that may or may not have merit is the thought that the team with the best shortstop will win the World Series.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 20, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

mr baseball It was the change in ownership that allowed the Braves to sign Tex.

As for the LaRoche trade, Lillibridge was worth Adam straight up. Getting Gonzales was a bonus. It will be a couple of years before Brent will get his shot but he could play everyday in the majors if it were necessary.

He does not have the power of Reteria or Escobar but he can flat out play defense, is clutch when it come to hitting and is smart. He knows how to run the bases and has some speed. I would look for him to play second however as Escobar has a stronger arm. Not sure it isn’t more accurate than Yuni.

Great problem to have, too many good infielders…..

By Paladin

September 20, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

My thesis was on laminar airflow over the surface of airfoil #23011. Would you like to read some of it. It is “riveting”.

By Overlord

September 20, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Ernesto sorry about that, maybe its because i lost hope last week after bad performance against muts. If we played the usual 2 out of 3 against them las 2 series we would be in 1st……. 3.5 games ahead of the muts, even a 2 out of 3 and 1 out of 3, we would be 1.5 GB and in 2nd place.

Who would have thought???????

Tough loss for phillies last night, but they were due, too good a run for them. I think theres a good chance the pick up that game they lost in the standings, since the marlins are due to win, but glavine is on the mound i think.

Mr Baseball about james, maybe you are right, he is doing as bad as some big $$$$ pitchers. We all know there is a chance he might bounce back next year, he will get better, but i think he should not be in the plan for anything but 5th spot.

SD is stepping up, against not so good teams, but that is what champions do, beat the weak to give themselves a chance to win it all. Good for maddux, good for baseball. Statement that pitching rules, baseball needs that. Too much steroids and bad pitching and too much hercules type players with poor skills.

By Shaun

September 20, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville, I agree. Who is denying your point?

But there are certain things, commonly held beliefs, that can be verified—like contact leads to runs or it’s necessary for a good team to have a fast leadoff hitter or that RBI are a great measure of hitter’s production. I think we can look in to these things and fairly easily find that they are incorrect, without any question of our biases, etc.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 20, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP…

By Gustopher

September 20, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

Great Blog CR! I am glad Skip is back

By Lester Reyes

September 21, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this

Overlord, you asked (quite a bit earlier in the comments, so it may be too late for you to see this here) who last won the pitching triple crown. Johan Santana won it last year in the AL. It was last won in the NL by Randy Johnson in 2002.

By Test

September 21, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890

Player BB SO OBP SLG AVG
CJones 77 71 430 606 342

By Test

September 21, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

This is a test of the emergency posting system.

123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890

End Transmission

This concludes the test from the emergency posting system.

By Ralph

September 23, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Glad to see that Skip is back, wish he was back on T.V. Skip tells it like it is, and doesn’t give all the excuses that the others do. I really don’t care much for they have now. But the Brave’s announcers are 100 times better than the ESPN, with Surfcliff, Or what he’s name is, sounding like a melodrama, and a know all, he won’t shut-up for one minute, he’s worse than Sutton ever was.