Braves

By Paladin

September 18, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Test. 1-2-3-3-2-1. Test out.

By Renegator

September 18, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

First?

By Renegator

September 18, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

Sorry Carroll - I just can’t feel sorry for Mike Hampton.

I’m sure the 30 million dollars he pocketed over the last two years makes up for him feeling “tired” from rehabing instead of pitching.

By DAP

September 18, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

thanks for the blog, DOB, i couldnt get the other one all day.

chipper will win the batting title,and it will be a close race. matt holiday will get 2nd with renteria behind him. thats my prediction.

prado will be traded this offseason, as a peice in a big deal.

the braves will not pitch at biggio.

i will be able to see some new posts when i refresh crosses fingers, and clicks post

By DAP

September 18, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

i meant carroll, thanx for the blog. my bad. i still cant see any posts. this sux.

By Moe

September 18, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

have you seen matt holliday in my own opinion that guy takes steriods/hgh that guy came in fat in the league than all of a sudden the guy is huge il bet is hgh and chase utley also take it to

By Shaun

September 18, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

I’m interested to see Biggio play eight positions. I’ve heard he wanted to do that in his last game.

By moonshiner snuffy smith

September 18, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

i like bats

they can see without using their eyeballs

By 22oz

September 18, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Its great that Chipper is giving us something to keep up with these last few weeks now that the Braves are out if it. It always aggravates me to no end when uneducated fans are clamoring to trade him. A batting title would add another credential to his HOF resume.

By moonshiner snuffy smith

September 18, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

carroll rogers - di’n’t y’all sing “Hello Dolly”?

By Randy

September 18, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Gearon Jr. is a tool. But it just goes with the typical spin that consistently comes out of the Atlanta Spirit.

I guess if my daddy was a bud with the Turner folks, I could’ve scraped together a few mil for a 5% ownership stake.

“You want a toe? I’ll get you a toe.”

Amateurs!!!

By Carolina Gent

September 18, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t think there’s any question that having Tex hitting right behind him has helped Chipper in the 2nd half. That, and being healthy enough to stay in the lineup more often. I said at the start of the season that I’d be satisfied with Chipper if he played in at least 130 games. I just don’t see any way that he’s going to get much more than that any year from here on out. Well, it looks that’s about what he’ll get, and a good year to boot. Now if he (and the rest of the team) can learn how to get those key hits in crucial situations, we’ll really get things working!

By Lew

September 18, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Nice Blog DOB-Now if the tech weenies would get their heads-oops. Maybe I better not go down that road. They might get POed and never fix things.

By Big Donnie

September 18, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Stay hot Chipper… this will make a nice addition to the trophy case… next to the World Series Championship and NL MVP, a batting title will be a nice notch in the belt. HALL. OF. FAME.

By Stuart

September 18, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

First?

By Spider29

September 18, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

I say that if Chipper doesn’t miss any more games, he will win the batting title. And Edgar will be right behind him! Martin Prado does seem to be a solid player. As much as I have always liked Renteria, trading him makes more sense than trading Escobar. I can see a middle infield of Escobar at short and Prado at second. But should Kelly Johnson be asked to move to the outfield again? Or as you suggest, Prado could be packaged in a deal for a pitcher. A good pitcher for the top of the rotation is really what we must have for next season. You’re right on about the feelings for many about Hampton. It’s not like the guy got injured on purpose. I admire him for gutting it out each time he gets hurt and working hard to come back. I hope like crazy that he comes back and helps us next season but we know we can’t count on that happening.

By Sauls

September 18, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

FIRST!!!!! Chipper wins it….trade Edgar and Matt Diaz for pitching. Escobar at SS, Prado at 2B and Kelly in Left. Might need to pick up a CF in the off season. Tori Hunter sounds good to me!!

By True Braves Fan

September 18, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

I sincerely hope that Chipper holds on and wins the NL batting title. He deserves it, and also a gold glove.

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

wonder if this blog works?

By 22oz

September 18, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Better call the Maytag repairman for the blog.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 18, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

I am no purist, I wish we had the DH in the NL, and Chipper could be our DH for 40-50 games a year, and have Diaz DH on days the left handed hitter was playing in left. Ain’t gonna happen though, is it?

By Lew

September 18, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

I apologize. Nice Blog Carroll.

By **billy g**

September 18, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

How does Hampton get any credit? He is making an obscene fortune for nursing injuries. Of course he is jovial in the dugout.

Hampton is the most over paide athlete in Atlanta history. The decent thing to do would be to renegotiate his contract to what he would be worth as a healthy pitcher of his caliber. That would have provided the team with the necessary money to sign a solid third starter…..we could have been in the playoffs.

Hey, but that would be unthinkable, right?

By moonshiner snuffy smith

September 18, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

i wish baseball wuz more like rasslin’

the players could wear masks and capes and have cool names like Sgt Slaughter and Thrasher and Doctor Death

Git em boys

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

AJC IT Dept.

Carroll is so nice to us. Unlike DOB, she is very pretty. She brings us doughnuts and coffee. We will plug the server back in now and make her blog work well. DOB’s blog is still downloading posts.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 18, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

billy g,

The union would really frown on Hampton doing that. It would set a precedent IF it is even possible, which I don’t think it is. You can spead out a contract after it is signed, but not cut if IIRC.

By Adirondackdave

September 18, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

Wow, Chipper wins the BA title and maybe a Gold Glove too! What a player, what a career. I look forward to his first ballot induction in about 10 years just down the road from us in Cooperstown.

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

AJC Building, Parking Lot and Blog Security Dept.

Has anyone seen that troublemaker from Savannah? He was loose in the hallways of our corporate headquarters, making fun of our bosses all over that last DOB blog. If you see him, tell him he is in BIG BIG BIG trouble for impersonating our department heads. As soon as our 4 hour dinner break is over and before our 8 hour naps later tonight, we will nab him and make him apologize for those things he said.

By moonshiner snuffy smith

September 18, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

yeah that chipper is sumfin

if he makes it to the hall will all his ill-o-gitimate kids be there to celebrate

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 18, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

first priority : Pitching. Second Priority : Defense. Third Priority : offense. Renteria is terrific with the bat but his defense is average at best. If he can bring anything in the pitching department , he should traded. Escobar is a better defender and I believe he will fill do fine with the bat. Brent Lillibridge is also a SS and provides the depth at that position. Martin Prado is a utility player at best , great glove , solid bat , no power , no speed. Pitching can be had in the trade market if Schuerholz is creative. Replacing Andruw’s defense/gold glove is going to be a problem and it is the second priority behind improving the rotation. I wish Chipper well , hope he wins the batting title , he has played through injury and really showed me his(I’m Impressed) dedication to staying in the lineup in spite of being less than a hundred percent. Keep an eye on the Giants Jonathan Sanchez , the 24 year old lefty is a potential trade for the Braves. He throws a 93-95 fastball/sinker , terrific change up and is working on developing a slider/breakingball.

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

renegade, i’m not asking you to feel sorry for mike hampton. i didn’t think i was anyway. i was just thinking that it might not be as easy as we all think, to have a good attitude in the face of surgery, surgery, surgery. here comes the line about “i’d have a good attitude if i had that much money.” whatever. i’m one of those weird people who doesn’t think money = happiness. but that’s way too much for me to get into, isn’t it? i should stick to prado?

ok. back to work.

By Chop Chop

September 18, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

I like the fact that Gearon took a little shot at the Braves. Division titles and failed playoff appearances don’t earn the Braves a pass. If the Thrashers regress this year, fans won’t be happy.

I think we need some sports rivalry in this town. Besides, maybe the competitive fires will start burning a little brighter if our teams’ owners realize that they have to compete for fans? It’s worth a shot, right?

By Bob, Journalist

September 18, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

It always aggravates me to no end when uneducated fans are clamoring to trade him … what does it do when educated fans so clamor?

What is an educated fan?

It is good to see both Chipper and Edgar doing well but I do wonder what Matt would have hit, had he not been misused and abused.

By Spider29

September 18, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

Tell ‘em, Carroll! By all accounts, Mike Hampton is a seriously competitive guy. He has had some really good seasons as a professional athlete. Unfortunately, since he’s been a Brave he has suffered several injuries that have kept him from doing his job on the mound. But he hasn’t quit. He continues to re-hab and try to prepare to return to pitch for us every time he is injured. And you don’t hear of him whining about it being hard. Don’t remember Smoltz doing that either after several surgeries. Don’t remember Galarraga whining about fighting cancer that kept him out for a year. They were making large sums of money too to play a game. I don’t feel “sorry for” Hampton but I do admire the fact that he could call it a career, take all that money and go home but he doesn’t. He keeps working to come back and contribute to the team. Don’t most Braves fans hope he accomplishes that goal in 2008?

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

Wayne Thanks for the post. Guess my 15 minutes of Wurlitzer fame are just about up (damn that Blog IT problem). Hey, you were kidding, but seriously, as you know first hand (Mr. Utah), the pressure is on the recipient of the Wurlitzer to raise their bar and live up to the honor awarded by the esteemed artist. If our posts contain a fraction of the talent and time required in his artwork, then we have contributed fairly well.

Besides, if I were inclined or tempted to crave being hoisted…I would immediately be brought back to earth and humbled every time I read posts from the prior and future “W” holders, our esteemed journalists, scribes and artists on this blog who can write circles around me in their sleep. Nope, I’ll just be a “guy” from the coast.

Signed,

The Immutable and Esteemed,

Sir Savannah, The Coastal Empire’s Earl of Guy

: )

By Sam

September 18, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

Hi

The only thing I have to say about Andruw Jones is he owes the Braves alot because of his lousy season he is having. He should let the Braves sign him for a company discount and tell Scott Boras to take a hike. If Andruw had a better year I really think the Braves will be in the playoffs.

By Sam

September 18, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Hi

The only thing I have to say about Andruw Jones is he owes the Braves alot because of his lousy season he is having. He should let the Braves sign him for a company discount and tell Scott Boras to take a hike. If Andruw had a better year I really think the Braves will be in the playoffs.

By Lew

September 18, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

No, the pressure is on the artist to do all those Wurlitzer pictures, find decent material to work from and to keep the quality up-all in time to honor the next good post.

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

Coach gotta check ya on A. Jones defense this year, he’s been good, but nowhere near the A. Jones caliber defense we saw 5 years ago, I hate to say it but Jim Edmonds defense beats A. Jones plays this year, dats why I say let Andruw walk… Thoughts…?

By Lew

September 18, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

Excuse me-Next great post. If I honored just good posts, I would still be working on 06’s Wurlitzers.

By GMS

September 18, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Um, if Holliday is hitting .333 for September, and .334 for the season, he really hasn’t “cooled,” has he?

By Paladin

September 18, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

Is this where you guys been hiding?

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

Damn where da hell is *Grinch * at gotta take a nap, there’s a big arse college party goin on 2nite…Lokkin foward to the TBS playoff games, Since TBS decided ro drop Da Braves, Me and a bunch of College Braves fans are gonna boycott and cuss out TBS for dropping the Braves on their website…Who’s wit me!!!

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

”I just can’t feel sorry for Mike Hampton. I’m sure the 30 million dollars he pocketed over the last two years makes up for him feeling “tired” from rehabing instead of pitching.”

Mike Hampton went from a 22-4 record, best in the National league with a 2.90 ERA, then through the unfriendly confines of Colorado, had a cup of coffee in Florida, headed north to be revived by Mazzone in Atlanta…then unexpectedly on to Tommy John surgery and a long, really long rehab. Not what Atlanta had in mind but certainly not what Hampton had in mind either.

So, we should be mad at Mike? He should just tell Atlanta that he feels guilty about getting injured and give the money back? He should be ridiculed because of his lack of contribution? I don’t understand the logic there. I’ll guarantee Mike didn’t set out to injure himself and collect easy money. Besides that…Braves had insurance on the deal. C’mon man…it’s real people we’re talking about here. Accidents happen to the best of people. It’s not about performance or execution…it’s about an unintentional and accidental injury. Give him a break.

By Braves20

September 18, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

My God. This isn’t a hangnail Mike Hampton is dealing with. It is major reconstructive surgery.

CR is right. A lot of guys have just packed it and went home and counted their money.

Don’t feel sorry for the guy but don’t be a jerk and slam him for something completely out of his control.

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

Hampton makes almost as twice as much as Smoltz, and yet it might be the biggest PR Trade since Jason Schmidt, or David Justice in da 96-97 seasons…I see one more year of contention baseball for dem Braves…But there iz a lot to speculate in da offseason…oh yea, Im out…Gotta take a nap,and eat for da stoplight party tonite…

By Paladin

September 18, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

I don’t remember one time that Hampton has not given his all from the mound. What more do you want from the man?

By beachcomber

September 18, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin’s 7:18 post prompts me to say that it would have been classy of TBS to bring Don Sutton over for an inning or so on Sunday to relive some of the moments that were part of so many of our lives.

And here’s hoping TBS does the right thing and involve Pete on one of the last games. The guy deserves more than a gold watch. Had the distinct pleasure of meeting him at a 400 Club gathering a few years ago with my wife and daughter. He could not have been more gracious.

Finally, I read elsewhere that Skip is not doing well - can anybody fill me in?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 18, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin , Andruw still catches everything and then some with his great instinct’s , positioning and running perfect routes to the ball. however , his arm is shot. Whether it’s from playing so hard in the outfield or ten years of collective wear and tear , I really can’t say. I’m not ready to believe his offensive game is headed downward as of yet. One really mediocre offensive season (2007) does not define a career. I’m 95 percent sure Andruw won’t be back in 2008. But, you never know what will happen with so many quality center fielder’s in the free agent market.

By Dang

September 18, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

Well Bobby said’WE should have a good base of players next year,or words to that effect.The key word being WE.It sounds like he’s coming back….Dang.Savannah Guy and others fu* Mike Hampton,many guys have retired rather than suck the life out of a team when they couldn’t get the job done.DOB Your contention that anybody would bleed the team for every dollar is inaccurate to the point of being BS.I know you didn’t use the word bleed but you may as have,that’s what the blood sucker has done.Fu* Mike Hampton.

By TennesseePaul

September 18, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

first priority : Pitching. Second Priority : Defense. Third Priority : offense … Martin Prado is a utility player at best

Coach: Can’t disagree with that. I think Marteen Prado gets lost in the shuffle because there isn’t too much there to find anyway. He’s less impressive than Giles. Maybe I’m falling for the long ball, but you gotta have some sorta pop. Especially when the option is replacing a guy with a near .400 OBP near .300 average and near 20 HRs with Marteen… near a AAAA player.
Needless to say, I’m not a fan of this guy. And I hope he is not a starter next season.

By Tomahawkin

September 18, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber Ur lucky…! I have not herad anythang about Skip, Fill us in on da 411 Caroll/D.O.B. What I wish from TBS is them to release a DVD for us Braves fans on the last 20 years of braves baseball..I get tired of those ESPN Moments, where they will show 20 seconds and that’s it…for them to continune on their Yankees/Red Sox love affaif…TBS give us Braves fans sometin, becuz we were da one’s who made your ratings, other than WCW…

Go Braves in 08, Fa Shizzle!

By Carolina Lady

September 18, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Howdy, everyone! Just stopped in for a minute to say Hello and see how y’all are doing. Haven’t been able to catch up on the blo ………

Wait a minute. Fleas? FLEAS?? Have y’all let Muts in here??? What were you thinking???? OK. Lew, I’m holding you responsible - you’re senior blogger here! Spray. And lots of it!

Well, as I was sa……..

Dear lord. WHAT is that over there in the corner?! Oh, my word. Mop and pail. Now, please, someone. WW? Scoots?

Where was I?…..

snif. snifsnif
Phew! When was the last time y’all aired out this place? SG, will you get the windows, please?

Well, just came by for a moment to pick on you - I’ve been out of touch for a while. Next doctor’s appt on Thursday; hoping and praying for a good report.

On the serious side, I DEEPLY appreciate the prayers and good wishes from y’all! Words can’t say how much it means when your back is against the wall to have somebody step up and say they are there with you, holding you up in prayer. Words for that don’t exist - so here is the biggest hug in the world from me to you. Thank you, friends. :-)

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 18, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

Does Jacobs remind anyone of LaRoche???

By TennesseePaul

September 18, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

Wow JoJo is having a good day…

By Adirondackdave

September 18, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

Anybody have a list of probable free agent starters and the end of ‘07? I realize trading is probably more likely for the Braves but still maybe we can get help there.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 18, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady,

I’ll say a prayer for you as well…

By Bob, Journalist

September 18, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

The Immutable and Esteemed Earl of Guy,

Who are you kidding … you are indeed esteemed and there’s no need to change anything! Maybe you can’t count but you write good kid!

Speaking of raising the bar, I just received the old Foster Brooks - Dean Martin “Airline Pilot” video from My Lady … my all time favorite!

I too am puzzled by those who fault Hampton and others who are forced to undergo the knife … hard to understand the perspective.

Washington got behind 5-0, now 5-3 … why was Tex not on first to take the relay?

By Carolina Lady

September 18, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

Berigan, I thank you sir! Sincerely appreciated!!

By Braveheart

September 18, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Why is Matt Diaz not playing more? He really is not a bad defensive outfielder. He just looks as ugly as ugly can be but he really is not bad out there. I think myself and many others have been prejudiced with how we regard him defensively because he made some really awkward plays in the first 2 months of last season overrunning balls and such but he has not really been bad since. The truth is that his range factor statistics were better than Langerhans last year and are better than Willie Harris this year. His bat is good, his defense is good. Is Cox aware of this?

By Bob, Journalist

September 18, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

I’ve misplaced my glasses … did My Lady say Lew has fleas? I’m not surprised … most Dawgs do.

8-7 Washington

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

from what i understand skip has had some health issues but is back fine now. will find out more and let you know.

By Overlord

September 18, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

Muts are losing to the nats 7-8.

Belliard hits a 3 run HR off John “freakin” maine (as a muts fan calls him). Following that, and knowing the muts are in shock, Robert Fick gets a base hit on a bunt.

Nats have scored 20 runs (worst offense in the league) in last 14 innings agains muts.

Phillies are winning and might be 1.5GB by the end of the night, so dont buy your playoff tickets just yet muts fans, cause you might end watching on TV as well.

Moises Alou is out of the game with hamstring (again).

Awful baseball.

One more thing, if the DBacks win tonight, they are the best team in the NL, thats how bad our league is.

By John

September 18, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

Ok, someone wrote HOF earlier, c’mon, Chipper is an OK player but the only way he should EVER get into the HOF is to pay his way in the front door like me and you do.

By Overlord

September 18, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

9-7

Poor muts, snifffff, snifff.

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady Just got back from tacos…lo and behold…there you are! It’s been way too long. The place just ain’t been the same without you here, but you know our prayers and thoughts have been with you Lady.

Now, I’ll be glad to get that window if you want, but there is a really nice fragrance in here at the moment. What is that you’re wearing?

Bob, Journalist Great to see you in the house tonight. Classes the place up, sir. So, how was that Chili-cheese dip for Miss Carol?

By Bob

September 18, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, I second what Berigan says. We are all prayin for you.

Are the Mets ready to repeat the great Philly collapse of 64????? I can’t say I have ever pulled for the Phils but it would be “amazin” if they knocked the Mets out of the Division AND the Wild Card. What a collapse? Where is Mets Drool when you need him? Mets blew big lead last night and just gave up 5 more to the Nats to fall behind again. Say what you want about the Braves not winning more than one WS since 91, but they have never, ever choked like the boys from Queens are right now.

By bfan54

September 18, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy - you are right on with your comments about Mike Hampton!

By bfan54

September 18, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady - I was glad to hear from you.

“In North Carolina way back in the hills, me and my ol’ pappy and he had ‘im a still..mighty, mighty, pleasin’ my pappy’s corn squeezin’s - white lightin’ sted of mountain dew…I took a little sip and right away I knew that my eyes bugged out and face turned blue”.

By Braveheart

September 18, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

Ok, someone wrote HOF earlier, c’mon, Chipper is an OK player but the only way he should EVER get into the HOF is to pay his way in the front door like me and you do.

WAKE UP! Chipper is one of the best third baseman in the history of baseball.

Chipper Jones’ OPS+ is 144.

Mike Schmidt’s OPS+ was 147.

AROD’s OPS+ is 148.

George Brett’s OPS+ was 135.

Wade Boggs’ OPS+ was 130.

Eddie MAtthews’ OPS+ was 143.

Home Run Baker’s OPS+ was 135.

Jimmy Collins’ OPS+ was 113.

George Kell’s OPS+ was 113.

Freddie Lindstrom’s OPS+ was 110.

Brooks Robindson’s OPS+ was 104.

Pie Traynor’s OPS+ was 107.

Those are the greatest third baseman of all time - the ones in the Hall of Fame. Chipper with his 144 is hanging right there with Eddie’s 143, Schmidt’s 147, AROD’s 148. Chipper is already one of the top 5 third baseman of all time. WAKE UP!

By GTA

September 18, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Coach…Renteria’s a 2 time gold glove shortstop, one of the hardest positions to win one in. His defense is excellent.

By Overlord

September 18, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

Bob the Drool is reading us but he (it) wont post anything so we think he (it) is not around.

By Tomahawkin' Again

September 18, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Hmmm, Braves winning again, Muts losing again. You don’t suppose…nah, who am I kidding? Who starts against Tech in the grapefruit league opener?

By Lew

September 18, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

Ma’am-I did a pretty good job of mets fumigation, but the Nationals are doing some pretty fine extermination all on their own. Glad to hear you’re doing better. Hope you didn’t miss Savannah Guy’s Wurlitzer post. Hope the techies didn’t send it to cyber purgatory.

By Bob, Journalist

September 18, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Overlord, I have no view regarding the DBacks but what do you mean by “if the DBacks win tonight, they are the best team in the NL, thats how bad our league is”?

Two additional related questions:

How do you measure or determine who is best?

If a team’s won-loss record is the sole criterion for determining the best team in a league using an unbalanced schedule, how would the so determined best team bespeak the league quality of play level?

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Cuz Agreed on Matt. With his natural hand/eye, power, clutch mentality and consistency with the bat, I’d play him even if he were a little sloppy out there…but he’s not, as you say. The guy has an incredible career potential if he’s just managed properly and given the right opportunity with decent coaching along the way.

“Is Cox aware of this?” Now that is a rhetorical question that has no easy answer. Looking at the way he’s misused Diaz this year, how could he be? Can’t imagine any rational reason not to have played him more.

Ok, I’ll go out on a limb here and say that Matt could have the kind of career that would rival Larry Walker, Moises Alou or Manny Ramirez.

By Carroll Rogers

September 18, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

so did journalist jimmy smith really go away?

By Randall

September 18, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

GO CHIP! He’ll be my favorite Brave till the day I die. I was among the few that followed the minors back then and I remember the details surrounding that Van Poppel hack, the Braves really made out on that deal. Couple that with hearing Skip for 25 years is pretty good.

By Bob

September 18, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

Speaking of teams collapsing, what about the Red Sox nation? A 14.5 game lead all but gone. Yanks close to within 2 1/2 if the scores hold. Mets must be in pure agony right now. The phones to Mike and the Mad Dog are probably on fire.

Savannah Guy, you are right on about Mike Hampton and Braveheart, you are on Chipper. What was that guy smoking, “an ok third baseman”????

David Wright just bounced into an inning killing DP in the top of the 8th. Amazin is right description of this bunch.

By Lew

September 18, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-Another thing about Chipper that makes him an almost certain HOF player is that all time, he has the second highest batting average for switch hitters. Frankie Frisch, who played in the 30’s had a .316 BA. Chipper is #2 with a .307, Pete Rose 3rd with a .304, Mantle with a .298 and Eddie Murray, another switch hitting HOFer had a .287BA. That is ALL TIME-not just recent history.

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

After these last two games, you think the umps will be given a little off-season training on how to get their butts out of the way at first base? Nah. That would be asking too much I suppose.

By Overlord

September 18, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

No BOB that comment about the DBacks was made because some muts fan, i dont remember who, said that the mets where the best team in the league, just becuase they had the best record. I told him exactly what you are saying to me, record has nothing to do with it, but he insisted. Well, know if that muts fan is around, then he could swallow his own word. Not that i think the DBacks are the best team.

By JJMB

September 18, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Chipper is a LOCK for the HOF.

Carolina Lady, I’m sorry to hear about your health problems. Good thoughts coming your way from JJMB central. Take care.

By Edgar

September 18, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Priority number two for the offseason: Get rid of Tyler Yates.He reminds me a lot of Fat Bob.Acosta and Ascanio arent ready for the Big leagues YET

By ncscoots

September 18, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Matt could have the kind of career that would rival Larry Walker, Moises Alou or Manny Ramirez.

uh-oh. I’m gonna put that down to a brain clouded by Wurlitzer joy, LOL. Fellas, he’s Matt Diaz, not Matt Holliday. If Plan A in LF for 2008 is Diaz, Braves will need Johan, not Ervin, and more besides.

Can you really see Matt Diaz as a long-term OF solution? Especially with the possible loss of offense the Braves may have to endure? If so, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Frankly, he’s the first guy in trade packages for me; his value is never going to be higher.

By chrisklob

September 18, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Hey SG, Lew, Carolina Lady. How have y’all been?

By Overlord

September 18, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

I guess the nationals are stealing signs from muts also, hahaha.

There is something mysterious about this muts fan; they are like superheros (spiderman, superman, batman, etc.), only the other way around. When things are going well, they are always here with their superheroes uniforms. I havent read a single post from them since the collapse started on friday.

I think they might all be at the hospital with some heart stroke.

POOOOOOOOOOOR muts.

By Stuart

September 18, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Please front office if you read the blog, can we please get rid of Yates? I am tired of watching him screw up innings. Paronto looks good tonight, and if I were him, I would be angry that Yates is still in the ATL and he is in AAA.

By Ron Roberts

September 18, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Did anybody else see THIS article about the Braves actually doing well financially?

Seems (as I’d suspected all along, and said so on this blog many a time) that AOL/TW wasn’t being very honest and forthright w/their assertions that the franchise was losing money season after season.

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Chris We’ve been wondering where YOU have been. Figured you must have been vacationing in Bora Bora or something. With just a few games left, you gotta hang in. I had a sip or two of some fine Knob Creek the other night and thought about you. How’s all with you?

By Bob

September 18, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Nats win 9-8. If the Braves can’t win, this is not a bad consolation prize.

By Bob, Journalist

September 18, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Earl of Guy, I don’t know about the Chili-cheese dip … it was gone before I could get a taste!

I myself have been really sick for the last few minutes … something I ate, all fresh … green beans, lady peas and ground beef … not sure what caused it, maybe the bacon grease.

I had intended an email for My Lady from whom it was go good to hear … but will defer so doing until later.

Mets lose 9-8!

By BG

September 18, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

where have all the mets trolls / fans gone? dropping a 4-0 lead to the pesky Nats. i’d be much happier seeing the Phils in the playoffs than the Mets. I can’t recall any obnoxious Phillies fans coming here.

Something to build on for JoJo tonight. I hope the Braves can put it away for him so he gets the W.

By chrisklob

September 18, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, interesting article. Hadn’t seen this one but it doesn’t surprise me. I’m not an accountant but I know that things can be reported financially to create whatever picture you want.

I’ve been hearing for years from varying sources that MLB owners were full of crap for crying “poor-mouth”.

And none of this takes into account the appreciation that these owners enjoy on the value of their franchises. Seems like owning a sports franchise is a much better bet than the stock market.

By Overlord

September 18, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

Does anybody feels sad for the muts?

By Tomahawkin' Again

September 18, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

I agree with Bob’s 10:23pm post: If we’re not going, I’ll be almost as happy if they’re not going. At least Red Sox fans can put in their 2004 World Series dvd to forget about their choking dog of a team, but what about you, Mut fans? Do you realize that if the Dbacks and Pads keep playing as they have been, the Muts could miss the playoffs completely? Wouldn’t that be sweet? Glavine can get an early tee time.

By chrisklob

September 18, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Hey Savannah Guy! I decided to take a break from the ol’ DOB/MIB Braves blog. Frankly, I got tired of reading the same ridiculous crap from the same ridiculous people multiple times per blog. So, I decided to take a break. Been gone about a month I guess. I have enough aggravation in my work life where I don’t need to wade through the garbage to read the good posts.

I read last nights blog and some of today’s as well and things seem to have quieted down. Did most of our idiot bloggers go the Falcons blog to spew their idiocy?

I appreciate the thoughts. It’s flattering that someone realized that I was gone. I’m enjoying some Knob Creek right now too! Anyway, it’s good to be back. This blog can be a lot of fun. I enjoy most of the interactions with our fellow denizens and I enjoy DOB’s and CR’s efforts very much but I really wish there was a little structure to it.

By the way, any word on Carolina Lady?

By TennesseePaul

September 18, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

Interesting Ron Roberts. It’s more detailed, but it’s what KC and I have been saying since the beginning.

Congratulations JoJo!

GO BRAVES!!

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

Ok, Scoots…maybe I’m off cloud 9…but cloud 8 feels pretty darn good too. So, you think Matt has reached his potential? You are possibly right there, but just looking at the guy’s season, his unflappable nature and ability, we may have to disagree on that…or how far out on the limb I went. Crystal ball and instinct notwithstanding, he won’t have the arm of Walker or the power of Ramirez, but he’s going to be in there.

Tell you what, I’m just willing to bet you a steak dinner that if, three years from now he’s got over a .300 BA with 30+ HR’s, over 100 RBI’s and a solid LF starter for two years. I hope it’s with the Braves, but you may be right about a trade package, his value is fairly high right now and we do need starting pitching.

If I lose that bet, I’ll win anyway just buying you a steak and swappin’ stories. But I think you’ll be buyin’. But really, tell me why you don’t see him as a player of that caliber?

By GermanBravesFan

September 18, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

I never thought I’d say this, but: “Let’s go Phillies!”

By Horrors of Jinxing

September 18, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

GREAT!!!! now you’ve jinxed him! nice job.

By Bob, Journalist

September 18, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Scoots, in a different context I have recently posited that sometimes it becomes obvious that things that are beyond comprehension are true … you simply have to accept that Matt is a very fine hitter, for though it may be beyond your comprehension, truth is truth and I assure you that it is true!

As I’ve said before, he’s also become a rather good defensive player as well … though that’s an opine rather than a posit.

While your judgment is always highly valued, The Earl of Guy is the only one allowed to be immutable … further reflection and a change of opinion is hereby besought of the Blog’s Esteemed Dean of the Succinct.

Good game … well, mostly good.

By GermanBravesFan

September 18, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

Chrisklob: not all idiot bloggers have left… Robert is still here…

By Bob

September 18, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan,

Wie gehts? Agree on the Phils. Never thought I would say it either, but it would be hillarious and based on the condition of Atlanta sports teams these days, it would be as funny as hell if the Mets completely fall out of the playoffs. Well, they have won one straight division title.

Got German relatives arriving on 1 Oct. Taking them on two week swing through the west. Salt Lake to Tahoe to San Fran to Yosemite to Vegas to Grand Canyon to Arches National Park and then back to Atlanta. They will gain an appreciation for distances if nothing else.

By Stuart

September 18, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

It is still a long shot, but the boys are not out of this thing yet. 86 wins still might, might get the WC. 9-3 down the stretch with the schedule we have left is doable as long as the NL west keeps eating each other and we get a bit of help vs. the Phils. Stranger things have happened.

By Old school

September 18, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

DALE MURPHY

By GermanBravesFan

September 18, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Bob…

Good to hear from you! Let me know when you will be in SFO - I may stop by for a cold one! I live in Stockton, CA - about 80 miles East of SFO.

How funny would it be, indeed, if the Mets fell out of the playoffs completely as well? Amazing…

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

Chris, the Lady is coming along well…she just posted for the first time in a month or so just a little earlier tonight (were you guys on vacation together or something?). Just scroll up a bit and you’ll her post. I can relate to the feeling about the negativity that seemed to run rampant on here for a bit…add to that, Mutts and trolls raging around and it was not the most pleasant atmosphere. Lew was slinging them around three at a time and they still kept coming on like roaches.

I was also gone for several weeks too due to my wife’s hospitalization but all is well and we’re pretty much back in the groove.

Welcome back and like I said, stick around a bit… the season’s almost over. You’ll have from October on to April to work! On that, I’m going to hit the big white envelope. Early day tomorrow. G’nite friend.

By Scott

September 18, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

I hope Chipper wins the batting title, he deserves it plus it will help his hall of fame resume even more.

By chrisklob

September 18, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

German Braves Fan, I know, I saw him on here last night and was trying to forget already. If nothing else, one can call him consistent. But he does serve a purpose. Every village needs an idiot.

By fastasballs

September 18, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

Enjoyed the game tonight. It was one of the few that was well played from top to bottom. Good pitching, little blurp from the pen, but Mahay & Soriano slammed the door. Great defense Diaz, Andruw, Chipper etc. Usually the Braves lose this type of game.

Also took great joy in watching the Muts take it on the chin by the mighty Amazin Nats. Alou went out, Delgado is out & El Duque is doubtful for the rest of the regular season. The Nats abused John “freakin” Maine for 8 runs, yet the Braves are baffled by the guy. Strange game isn’t it?

That was an interesting read about the Brave’s finances. Liberty appears to have the mind set of it takes money to make money. Does Liberty take the gamble & make a move for a big name pitcher? I have a feeling if they see favorable odds in winning the division & maybe the series, then they make the move. Is increased attendance & playoff sharing worth the extra money?

By GermanBravesFan

September 18, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

AMEN, chrisklob… Robert IS the village idiot here.

I, too, have not been here in a while. It’s the same thing every time: Braves lose, all kinds of “fans” come out of the woods and criticize Bobby, Schuerholz, Chipper, etc. It is getting boring. I got a bit frustrated, too, over the course of the season until I realized, hey, this IS sports and things are going this way. Braves fans have gotten spoiled over the past 15 years and now cannot deal with losses. Perhaps, one of these days, some of them will realize how good things REALLY were.

As for Robert: I think he’s out tonight, playing with his donkey…

By Billy, The Real Blogger Formerly Know as Billy

September 18, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Missed blogging for the past few weeks. Seems as everyone is taking the Braves fall from contention fairly well. Kinda strange but most inspiring. Sure it was’nt this way the whole time.

Well ‘till next time.

By Savannah Guy

September 18, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Jinxing horrors: Not jinx…that’s silly and superstitious. Besides, I was wearing my lucky socks with the hole in’em when I made the highly speculative prediction.

Scoots and Bob, J: Big white envelope for my tired self. G’nite good sirs. Glad WW was gone or he may have joined scoots and thrashed me for being so high up in that tree.

Going back to cloud 9…

By Bob, Journalist

September 18, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Scott, I hope that either Chipper or Edgar wins the title … but why do you say “he deserves it”?

Are you suggesting that other contenders for the title are less deserving?

By chrisklob

September 18, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

GBF, I’m with you. I can understand some of the criticisms of BC, JS et al for some of the decisions made this year. But interestingly enough, they are only criticized when things go wrong. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. No praise is ever offered for the good decisions that are made. And let’s face it, over the course of the last 16 seasons, many more good decisions have been made than bad ones.

As for Robert: I think he’s out tonight, playing with his donkey… Is that what the kids call it nowadays?

By Bob

September 18, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan,

I will be traveling from Tahoe to San Fran on 7th and touring the city with my relatives on the 8th. Staying at the Maxwell Hotel.

I see Bayern is still in first in the Bundesliga. Also watching the F1 season come to a close.

By Braves Fan

September 18, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

Johnson to the outfield is a good idea. He has brick hands and is too skittish when he has to catch a throw from left or with a runner trying to steal. I have to laugh at folks who call him “servicable”. The brick in his glove might not be such a big deal in the outfield.

Sympathy for Hampton??? Surely you jest. If he can’t make 30 starts next year I would hope he would retire and let the Braves use the money on someone who is going to play. I’d feel damn embrassed to take 30 million from my employer and all the medical bills paid to sit. Instead of sitting on the bench send him to the minor leagues to coach future players. At least he would be contributing something.

I’m shocked that Chipper has enough at bats to qualify. When he gets hurt again will he still have enough at bats?

Lose Renteria??? I seem to remember when Ozzie played that “one more year” for the Cards…that worked out great for the Cardinals and their future great shortstop. Yunel appearantly has a great future so one more year learning from a master will only help him.

By GermanBravesFan

September 18, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

BOB: 8th could work since that will be my day off. email me at gb_1905@yahoo.com

chrisklob: I agree. Things have gone darn well the past decade and a half. I talked to the baseball staff on our college team (the head coach is none other than Ed Sprague - he of the home run for the Blue Jays in the WS against the Braves..) and they said what the Braves did over the past 15 years will not be repeated in professional sports!

By Bob

September 19, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan,

Just sent you an email. Need the Phillies to somehow win this game tonight.

By Braves Fan 79

September 19, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this

Im a Braves fan forever regardless! This season was a season of moves made 2 late, and just bad choices from the start. (woodcrap on the team over escobar??) Giving redmen so many chances…and cox not being able to realize whos hot…whos not…and who just flat out SUCKS!

Lets hope for a 2008 season without woodcrap on the team, and please no more weak hitting backup infielders as free agents!!
And PLEASE PLEASE get Bobby Cox some HELP on the bench!! Someone more outspoken to be like….hey…theres 2 outs and bases empty in extra innings….dont u think we should walk puljous?? Or..this is a SMALL HR park…u SHURE u wanna bring in a fly ball pitcher (wickman) in extras??

By harold

September 19, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

to the critics of Mike Hampton who think he’s overpaid. Remember Nick Esasky?

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

charlie manuel is looking better than cox, at least keeping phillies focused and making them believe in themselves……. they have even worse pitching than we do, but they keep winning.

By Bob, Journalist

September 19, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

Good to see MyLady, Billy and ChrisKlob!!

We have a talented team …

Yes, it is difficult to imagine our divisional winning streak being bested … however, Einstein once posited that man uses less than 10% of his thinking capacity so perhaps it’s folly to place too much confidence in our inability to imagine.

I continue to believe that all teams currently fall far, far short of realizing their potential and that dramatic changes in the approach to coaching and preparing the team to play could result in significant competitive differentials that might well enable a team to consistently win, year after year.

Regardless of protestations, methinks that, from the offensive perspective, too many players think of it as an individual rather than a team sport, though they probably don’t themselves realize it … execution suffers, something like translating from your mother tongue to another language rather than actually thinking in the second language.

As a related aside, I don’t know how to express it but I think too little attention is given by our hitters to the opposing catcher’s tendencies.

Goodnight Miss Allen …

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

September 19, 2007 1:22 AM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson is going nowhere. The young second baseman ranks in the top 13 in defense and offense. Considering the fact that there are 30 teams and he is essentially a rookie , it’s a foolish notion to try and fix what isn’t broke. The former 1st round draft pick will be the Braves 2B fixture for a few more seasons.

By Killer

September 19, 2007 1:49 AM | Link to this

Uneducated fan? I take offense! Take a look at the DL over thw past few years!

By Lester Reyes

September 19, 2007 3:26 AM | Link to this

Carroll, you rather willfully oversimplify the Hampton issue when you say that money doesn’t equal happiness. Duh. Anyone who’s ever gotten their first paycheck at a new job understands that as soon as they reflect on all they had to do to get it. Hampton is fortunate in that Colorado and Florida and insurance have paid the overwhelming majority of his contract thus far. How much differently would we look at this issue if the Braves had been on the hook for his entire contract (something which is apparently a distinct possibility for next year, injury or no)? The reason you don’t hear Hampton echoing the same sentiment as Pedro is because Hampton’s got another fat payday coming next year, regardless of whether he ever pitches in a game (by the way, how much joviality does $15M buy a team these days?). If he’s in the same boat this time next year, let’s agree to revisit your assessment and see if it floats, because, as you noted in your reply to Renegade: it’s “way too much for (you) to get into, isn’t it?”

By Serbok

September 19, 2007 4:10 AM | Link to this

mIKE hAMPTON~HMMMMMMMMMMMM Seems to me the man is staying on course with his rehab assignments? Injuries as we all know, are very unfortunate by-product of the game? I’m not sure of his age~ 31 maybe? There was a football player, that was in a very ferocious hit during the first game of the season? He seems to have had a miraculous recovery? Mike hampton, from what I understand, is going thru the rehab, with a tremendous amount of determination.I do not understand, why fans are not giving this young man a chance to realize his dreams> If I understand it correctly? PPL want him to just cash in? Even so a great majority of these monies were received thru insurance payments? I For One would not wanna be the one to tell this young man, NO SCREW your Dreams! And your HARD WORK! We are talking about one more season? Hampton was a very good Pitcher!

I’m not sayin, he will be the same as he was b4, however, I,m also not sayin he could not be a 15 game winner again. The Beauty OF ALL sports is the recurring theme of an athlete beating all odds? I honestly think that the ppl who want Hampton to “just” give it up” Are not giving the Man the chance he deserves~ The beauty of sports is that it brings out the incredible content of a human life? I look forward to Hampton pitching next year! He Deserves the right to show the “WORLD”! If he cant do it~ well~ then he cant do it. He IS giving it his best shot:o)

By Lester Reyes

September 19, 2007 4:31 AM | Link to this

Serbok, the Braves (actually, I guess it’s the Rockies, Marlins, and Southpaw Mutual) aren’t paying Hampton to “realize his dreams”, they’re paying him to pitch successfully in major-league games. Of course, we all want to see him come back and be successful, but that wasn’t the point of my last post—Carroll set up a ridiculous argument comparing what Pedro said to what Hampton hasn’t said (Pedro has pitched beyond the point of the average person’s ability to tolerate pain, like Smoltzie, with an arm that may fall off on his next pitch). Next time you feel like getting your caps lock stuck on a word, try it like this: “Hampton WAS a very good (p)itcher!”

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

September 19, 2007 6:09 AM | Link to this

My two cents on Hampton. What most have failed to realize is , Hampton’s tommy john surgery essentially failed. He fell into the 10-15 percent of patients who don’t have a positive outcome. The second surgery might be successful , I hope. For Hampton’s sake I really want to see him come back and pitch even better. But , the odds are long and he has a mountain to climb before we will know if Mike Hampton is to ever pitch again.

By Yars

September 19, 2007 6:11 AM | Link to this

Chipper winning a batting title would be sweet. It would be nice if something positive happened for this team before the season ends. Only 11* games left. I think Chipper can do it. **Martin Prado is a good player, but not at the same level as a Kelly Johnson. Sure, Prado’s glove is better than KJ’s, but his offense doesn’t come close. I can see KJ developing into a .300/20/85 type player. He will only get better, & I don’t think he’s going anywhere. He will stay at 2B. Looking towards the winter, I see players such as Renteria, Prado, possibly even Lillibridge being trade bait. If you got Escobar at SS, & KJ at 2B, there’s just no room for Lilli, Rent, & Prado. Too bad there are only 1 games left. Boy did this season go by fast. I guess we started playing better a little too late. I wish there were like 30 games left. How about those Phillies! Wow. Can they catch the Mets?

By ncscoots

September 19, 2007 6:39 AM | Link to this

Bob, I promise to give the Diaz matter some thought…I don’t comprehend black holes, either, so you could be right, LOL.

But I do have trouble seeing him as Tony Gwynn redux. That lunging swing. Those happy feet. My perception is that inner-half-up leaves him carved like Thanksgiving turkey, and I fear that other flaws might appear if he were given 25 AB a week. I’ll agree that he’s hit well in his role, but, while many think his success in a limited role warrants more playing time, perhaps more playing time would limit his success. But that’s not even an opine, much less a posit…just a perception, one I’d happily see exploded, if distorted.

Perhaps Matt exists too close to a black hole, and it just distends my view of him, LOL.

By No Dawgs Here

September 19, 2007 7:43 AM | Link to this

Big freakin’ deal!! The Braves still aren’t going to the play-off. Not to mention “Choker” Jones NEVER seems to come through in clutch situation. He maybe hitting over .300, but he well under that, when runners are in scoring position. He sucks under pressure.

By don

September 19, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this

Better check the figures. Chippy isn’t leading anymore.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 8:14 AM | Link to this

No actually, with RISP this year, Chipper is at .307, .424, .591, 1.016. Yeah, he is a bum with RISP. He was down earlier this year with RISP when he had Andruw hitting behind him. People did not want to pitch to Chipper because they’d rather take their chances with Andruw. BUt Chipper knowing Andruw was behind him might have felt pressure to get things done himself and swung at some bad pitches trying to make things happen. Or it could just be that it was a smallish sample size and the more at bats he has gotten, the more things have evened out for him. BTW, Chipper is 17th in the major leagues for OPS with RISP and 10th in the NL for OPS with RISP for those hitters with more than 100 plate appearances with RISP.

BTW, Tex has sick, absolutely insane numbers with RISP. Tex has a .392, .536, .704, 1.240 with RISP combined between texas and atlanta. Sick. Imagine how much better this team would have been if Tex had been batting cleanup behind Chipper all season.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

Better check the figures. Chippy isn’t leading anymore.

wow. are these people braves fans or just losers who love to say negative things. are you actually rooting against the guy to do it? we’ve got some freaking bizarre cats on this blog.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this

Better check the figures. Chippy isn’t leading anymore.

wow. are these people braves fans or just losers who love to say negative things. are you actually rooting against the guy to do it? we’ve got some freaking bizarre cats on this blog.

By don

September 19, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

No Braveheart, we are not losers. Nor, as are you, are we “kissie butters” like you. We are realists who state facts. On the other hand, you would have been great on the Titanic.

Fact is, Braveheart, Chippy is not leading the league in batting average. Not mentioning it won’t change the situation. Sorry to burst your “pie in the sky” bubble with facts. By the way, have you purchased your playoff tickets for Atlanta yet? You should have good seats. Try getting real, my boy.

By BlueMoon

September 19, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this

Prado is a utility player next year. Johnson stays at second and Escobar will be the starting shortstop.

Renteria will be traded with either James or Reyes and probably another prospect or two for a very good starter. I don’t see us going through the offseason without acquiring another top notch starter.

By Chip Carey

September 19, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this

I’d rather see chipper win a gold glove than a batting title. not to take anything away from him but, he was injured AGAIN this year so he’s had less plate appearences than some other guys, however, ironically the 3 guys that come to mind when you think of the nl batting title are 3 guys who’ve spent time on the shelf….renteria, chipper, and utley so who knows. Chipper’s never won a gold glove before, and wouldn’t it be nice to hear that accolade when he’s giving his Hall of Fame acceptance speech? P** off scott rolen.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

This blog has its’ share of idiots and nuts(and there are those that think I am one)but the Falcon blog makes DOB’s denizens look like a group of Mensans.

By TampaBrave

September 19, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Sorry Blue Moon

I could part with KJ. A decent hitter but a poor fielder. Use HIM to get pitching. I can live with Prado and Escobar. James and Reyes are not going anywhere. James will develop a 3rd pitch and Reyes has potential to win 15 games or more.

No Dawgs Here,

You must be kidding. Chipper has carried this team all year. Get a grip.

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Morning, all. Looks like we’ve got ourselves a new Mets fan on the blog.

I understand everyone’s frustration with Hampton; I’ve felt it myself. However, I think if his body will allow it he’ll come back and pitch effectively. That speaks volumes for his character, because most people who read what you cold blooded folks have been writing would come on here and tell y’all to go %$#@ yourselves before going home and counting their money. Hampton’s got more pride than that.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

If I had a vote, the only thing that would keep me from voting for Chipper as MVP would be that he missed a fairly significant number of games compared to other candidates. But per game, I think Chipper has been the most valuable player in the league.

I support the idea that value means contributing to winning and you shouldn’t punish the player if the GM didn’t surround him with enough good players for the team to win or the players around him under-performed.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 19, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

Morning gang, Jeff Bennett and reliever Joey Devine will be joining Brando Jones on the plane ride back to Atlanta. Well, I was half right when I predicted a starter and reliever going up after last night’s game. Just not the right ones.

Jeff Bennett was one of Richmond’s most effective starters during the last half of the season. You all have seen Joey before.

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

Paladin, agreed. There are exactly four people that are regulars on the Falcons blog that I would trust with a set of Legos; the rest represent a picture of humanity so bleak it almost makes genocide seem acceptable.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning to you TampaBrave. I was “accused” the other day of “hiding out” from you. Do you know anything about that? I certainly don’t.

By Will

September 19, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I have to admit when i first read your post i was thinking you are just being a “homer”. After thinking about it for a minute I agree with you. Most Valuable Player to his team in the NL just may be Chipper. The Braves cannot compete at a high level when he is not in the lineup. That has been proved time and time again the last few years.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Grinch And the signing of Leftwich, which you remember I have been advocating since the Jags cut him, will only make the race-baiting worse. Give me your “4” by e-mail so I can look for them amongst the sickos.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Will, To take it a step farther so that I’m not accused of being a homer, Hanley Ramirez or David Wright should win it. But Chipper is the most valuable per game; it’s just that he’s missed too much time relative to those guys. Chipper is at or near the top in basically every meaningful offensive rate stat plus he’s played solid D.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

don, you are a loser. you brought nothing to the table today. don’t ever remember you posting, so i am guessing you never bring much to the table. calling him chippy is not being a realist. that’s being a prick. pointing out he fell to second last night is not being a realist, it’s just being a debbie downer. it’s not like you said, damn, he fell down last night to second. darn. no, you called him chippy and said what you said more like you were rubbing it in rather than being disappointed. that’s not realism. that’s not even pessimism. N8 would have said something like dammit, he was in the lead, now he is not, it’s gonna slip out of his hands like things always slip out of the braves hands. you were not being a pessimist, or an optimist or a realist. you were just being a prick.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

I have a question. Has anyone(in recent times)won the MVP when their team did not make the playoffs and their competition’s did?

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Well, I think you can make a pretty convincing argument that Bonds is more valuable that Chipper on a per game basis. Although Chipper’s defense would about even things up, probably.

By dadgum

September 19, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Many blogs ago I listed a starting lineup that had Prado at 2nd and Escobar at SS. The point was that the Braves had to continue to get younger and use good experienced players in trades to bring much needed starting pitching. Without question Prado is FAR better than Kelly at 2nd and just as good with the bat.

Given the Braves plethora of current and AAA outfielders there is no way Kelly Johnson plays out there next year. No way. Kelly’s future most likely is with another club at 2nd base and while we are at it ditto Renteria at SS. Hate to lose him but Escobar is too valuable on the left side and Renteria can bring a true value in return.

No way I would give up young, affordable, top talent with huge potential when you need starting pitching. The Braves have already given up Salty and others. Renteria is gone next year anyway and Prado is better than Johnson now. I say trade them possibly in a package deal or with perhaps Willie Harris for a potential #1-#2 starter and a prospect.

Rock on….remembering John Belushi.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 19, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave , you don’t have a clue. Kelly Johnson is ranked in the top 10 of all second baseman in offense. The guy is essentially a rookie at 2B , he is ranked in the top 13 in defense at his position. The kid has done a great job and before you knock him for his 13 errors , consider the fact that McCann has 12 errors and Renteria has 10. KJ has been every bit as good at his position as McCann and Renteria have been at shortstop and catcher. Renteria is on the trading block because the Braves have Escobar. Salty was traded because of McCann. You want to get rid of Kelly Johnson and replace him with what exactly ?

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Paladin, last year Ryan Howard won it and his most worthy competitor, Albert Pujols, made the post-season.

By Efrim

September 19, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

So I hear we are going to recall Joey Devine again on today.

Do you think this kid will ever get a shot in this pen?

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Paladin, however even though Howard won it without his team reaching the post-season, it’s hard to imagine he would have won it had his team not been in contention up until the very end of the season.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

Thank you Shaun, and with that precedent, I think Chipper should have a shot.

By 22oz

September 19, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Paladin

You need only look back to last year, when Ryan Howard beat out Pujols for the MVP.

By Mark

September 19, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

I don’t think Chipper is an MVP. I mean if you really think about it, Chipper isn’t really the MVP of the Braves. He has great numbers and is vital to the Braves lineup, but he isn’t really the MVP of the Braves

To be honest, the only reason he has played as many games as he has, is because he was called out by John Smoltz. I know Smoltz said that he wasn’t singling Chipper out, but we all know what he meant when he made his statements. After that statement, Chipper said he would try to play every game for the rest of the year. Chipper took that personal because he said, “Somebody better not miss another start”. They say a hit dog will holler. Whose to say he would not have sat out a little more if he hadn’t been called out.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but I would say that Francouer is just as valuable or more valuable than Chipper because with that pathetic Centerfielder slumping, Francouer stepped up his game. He almost hits .300, leads the team in RBIs, and leads the league in outfield assist. He also one of the league leaders in 2-out RBIs. He is still a free swinger but he has a better approach at the plate.

Chipper might be a HOF, but he isn’t necessarily the MVP of the team. Just a thought.

By DAP

September 19, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

if chipper had played more than 120 games this season, i think the MVP votes would be a lot closer. his average, slg%, and OBP are unbelieveable. the stats that hurt him are the HR and RBIs, which obviously suffered because of how much time he missed.

i think that at this point, if he had just 6 more HR, and 15 more RBIs than he does now, the race would be alot tighter.

personally, i dont think david wright is in the race. i think its between, fielder and holliday, and whicheveer team makes it to the playoffs is gonna win it. if neither team makes it, i think holliday gets the MVP. hes a monster.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

“Kissie Butters”?????

By dang it!

September 19, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

This comment aimed at “Moe.” So ya think Utley is on steroids, huh? Just b/c he’s #1 2nd baseman, no way is he taking something “funny.” Get your facts right, will ya? Phillies far better than Braves—-Braves falling to a fast death but Phils are rising!! You check standings lately? Phils are ahead of Braves! GO PHILLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Thanks all, and I have shown my ignorance. But, this time last year I was recovering from a stroke and my memory of the baseball season is sketchy, to say the least.

By Will

September 19, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

How in the world can anyone say Prado is better then Kelly Johnson. Are you kidding me?

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

Dadgum, losing Andruw, Kelly and Edgar is a lot of power. That would need to be replaced, and it wouldn’t be from Prado, Escobar and Brandon Jones. Not saying they’re not good players and don’t deserve a shot, but that’s a lot of offense to dump at one time.

By Mark

September 19, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

We need to keep Renteria, because if we ever want to win the World Series we need his experience. I like Escobar, but I want him to platoon one more year because I want to see how he responds when the league starts to adjust to him. I want to see if he can make the adustments when the league finds the holes in his swing, because everybody has some holes in their swing.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 19, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

In five minor league season , Martin Prado has 15 home runs , TOTAL ! Kelly Johnson has 16 so far in 2007 , he hit 16 HR’s in 2004 while playing for AA Greenville , 23 HR’s in 2001 playing in Macon. Playing Prado over Johnson is like going with Corky Miller over Brian McCann.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

dadgum, i like prado alot but he is nowhere near the offensive weapon kelly johnson is. nowhere near it. kelly is not great defensively but his defense is not the reason we are where we are. he can only get better at defense anyway. we already know he is willing to put in the work and be a good team player. kelly is only going to get more powerful as he gets stronger and as he enters his prime. prado should be a solid second baseman/utility player in his career. he should have been up here all year. but there is no way prado should be taking any time away from kelly johnson.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

Fielder will win the MVP, just like Howard did last year. Sports Writers Dig The Long Ball. Kissie Butters-new porn star, right?

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

People who use expressions such as “kissie butters” have heads that are shaped like little fireman’s helmets.

By DAP

September 19, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

dadgum saying prado is as good as kelly with the bat is a stretch. i assuming your basing this on prado’s offense in the minors, which is impressive, but hesnt hit like that in the majors yet. kelly on the other hand, is a great offensive weapon.

did you know kelly johnson is third in the league in triples? hes got 16 HR, #5 among NL 2nd basemen. thats goes along with his 26 doubles, 68 RBIs, and 76 walks, which ties with chipper for 10th in the league. and he hasnt even played everyday.

prado just inst as good as johnson, dadgum.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Paladin, I think Chipper’s missed time relative to the other candidates hurts him more than his team missing the playoffs, although I think the later doesn’t help.

By Braveheart

September 19, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Thank you Lew and Paladin and Grinch.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Mark, Yeah, because the ‘97 Marlins with a 21- or 22-year-old Renteria had so much experience at shortstop, didn’t they?

By Mark

September 19, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

I like this lineup, but we need more speed. The main reason the Phillies have scored more runs than the Braves is they have speed. They are able to manufacture runs. This Brave team scores runs, but they don’t in crucial situations. We usually pile up our runs in single games. We need more speed around our power. We need a few sparks around all of this power.

Bobby can’t manage speed, but he will be gone after next year.

By TampaBrave

September 19, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Paladin

I thought you were perpetually hiding out in the hills of Tennessee with your coon dog and your moonshine, but no, I have no knowledge of any disputes between us, at least recently.

Coach

I acknowledge that KJ is a decent hitter. Those 13 errors were ones he got to. We don’t count the ones that he should have made a play on. His range and abilities to move to his right are just poor, which softens the middle defensively. My daughter thinks he’s poor and she’s a softball player who plays 2nd base. And remember, in relation to the other positions, 2nd is considered the easiest infield position because the throw is shorter and there are fewer left handed hitters. You might be guilty of placing to much weight on the side of hitting. Could he improve? I guess so but Prado and Escobar are well tooled and ready to make their mark. With the pitching issues we’ve had, I’d favor the better defensive guys out of the pack, which is Prado and Escobar. I hate to give up the LH bat, but I’d definitely use KJ in a trade to get more pitching. And by the way, I think I have a clue. The clue is what my eyes have seen. Perhaps, you could buy a vowel.

By Bali

September 19, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith was really Tim Tucker, the greatest Braves beat writer of all time. Carroll is good, but O’Brien blows

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Mark,

A more likely reason the Phillies score more runs is because they get more baserunners and because they play home games in one of the most hitter-friendly ballparks in baseball.

Yes, judging by their road offenses, the Phillies still look like the better offensive team but the difference is not nearly as dramatic as the overall numbers, which are skewed because of the Phillies’ home park.

By TampaBrave

September 19, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Coach and Grinch,

You are stuck on the long ball. Are you chicks? We need to get away from the 3 run homer mentality being the modus operandi of this team. We have been a softball team this year, relying on big flies. That double edged sword has cut us to pieces this year.We need defense more than we need another HR hitter. KJ may have the triples, granted, but his SB speed is just average. And IMO, he doesn’t hit in the clutch. Not saying Prado is the 2nd coming, but I could live w/o KJ.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

No, tampa Brave, I am not “perpetually” hiding out. I do live in TN, about 150 miles from Atlanta. I do have a large dog, but he don’t hunt coons. I have 2 guns, that I know how to shoot. And I have near-neighbors that would kill for me, particularly if it involved someone from “off”. So, when “threats” are made on here I don’t know if I’m supposed to lose sleep over them or not. But, I don’t.

And, I agree. We have no “issues” that I know of. Have a good one.

By MEB

September 19, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Getting caught up on the blog after a couple of days and last night was terrific. Great posts and the air seems to be a lot cleaner without the Mets fans soiling our blog. Some quick comments:

• Welcome back Carolina Lady and will keep up the prayers.

• Bob.journalist… always great when you make an appearance and throw your wit and insight into the fray.

• chriskolb… I do enjoy your posts and you echo my thoughts on the Braves and other matters of importance.

• GermanBravesFan… your frustration with the blog and some of its residents does indeed hit home with me. Robert is indeed the village idiot and one that should be censured by all.

• journalist jimmy… please come home! The blog is in need of your humor and quick wit.

Braves… Chipper and Edgar keep up the good work and let the hits keep on coming. Lets win out and see where we stand.

By NCBravesFan

September 19, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

How absolutely freakin’ delicious would it be if the Mets folded and missed the playoffs?

Mind you, they could be the STL Cardinals of 2007. We shall see.

Let’s Go Phils!

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave, problems with that are a) the Braves have been probably the second-best offensive team in the NL this season and b) teams that win are teams that get runner on and hit for power.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

The Braves have scored five or more runs as much or more times than all but four teams in the NL this season. They’ve done it only one fewer time than Cincy and only three fewer times than Colorado, two teams who play in extreme hitters parks.

On the road they’ve done it 41 times; only the Mets have done it more.

…for those who want to say the Braves have scored but don’t have a consistent offense.

I know there were some holes in the offense (Andruw) and some blunders by Cox (playing Harris too much and Diaz not enough) but with more pitching, this team would be in the playoffs. Preventing runs has been the problem, not scoring.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 19, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Some you guys could have the ‘27 Yankees and you still would want to trade the team away. Grow up people, this is not a fantasy league.

Chipper is the MVP of the Braves. Like it or not, he makes the offense go. I doubt he will win it this year as he has not hit 40 homeruns.

Yes, Kelly has quite a bit to work on this winter but he has a big upside. Of course, so does Andruw, who will put up big numbers for somebody next year.

Prado will make a good infielder for the Royals to go along with Tony Pena Jr.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave, actually that should have read teams that score are teams that get runners on and hit for power.

By KC

September 19, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

I was thrilled to see that BC decided to go with Reyes last night.

And ya know… it’s nice to see the Braves playing good baseball now, even if it is too late for it to mean anything.

If they win tonight, they will be 8-4 over their last 12. That’s .666 baseball. Not bad.

Now… just win all 11 remaining games, and hope the Mets, D-Back, and Padres play .500 ball from here on out! =)

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Wonder where are all those “loyal” muts fans……….

Did anyone watch chipper jones interview by harold reynolds on baseball channel? He said about gregg maddux “the thing that impressed me the most, was that when he was in some trouble, runners on base, sometimes he just gave me that look, i just knew it was coming toward me, next thing you know the ball was hit at me, this would happen with an accuracy of more than 90%.”

By Lee in S. GA

September 19, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Prado will make a good infielder for the Royals to go along with Tony Pena Jr.

Good point. I just don’t see Prado except as a late inning defensive replacement type player or a backup player with an average (no power) bat. Granted over Woodward he is like the 2nd coming of Ryan Sandburg but then compared to Woodward… who isn’t, but there is no way Prado should he take Johnson’s place next season as a starter.

By Efrim

September 19, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Mark

How can you say that Frenchy is just as valuable as Chipper?

Francouer has a .778 OPS.

Chipper has a 1.033 OPS.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

It really beats the hell out of me-all these suggestions to dump KJ, Renteria, Andruw and even Tex, as well. Right. Let’s just dump all of our offense for the mediocre pitching that may or may not be available.

There’s a few things that need to be taken into account. First-Yunel Escobar. I really like this kid (if he REALLY is a kid). He has come on like gangbusters-hit well in the clutch (all the time as a matter of fact), run the bases relatively well, shown great range and an above average arm (contrary to popular belief, he ain’t the second coming of Furcal). All of this is fine and well, however…..He has only played half a season. He has 11 errors in half the playing time of Renteria. He has very little power. He will be entering his second year, where the Sophomore slump is a well recognized occurrence. You’re talking of replacing an All Star shortstop who is contending for a batting championship, who is not the greatest SS, but one who is good, has decent range and makes relatively few errors-a guy entrenched for two years in the #2 spot in the order, who is CHEAP. Now many have said (and I don’t disagree) that Yunel needs to play full time. But look at it like this-Chipper will miss time and Yunel is the perfect replacement (don’t count on Aybar-he has problems and has not played ball for a full year)

Now we all know Andruw is likely gone. He has NOT had the most productive of seasons-that’s for sure. If we had a buck for every time he’s failed in clutch situations, we could afford Torii Hunter next year-hell, we could even afford Andruw. The point is, that lousy season notwithstanding, we will still lose 25+HR and 100RBI. Brandon Jones, while an excellent prospect, definitely ready for the show, will not replace that production. Neither will Gregor Blanco. I’m not quite sure about this supposed plethora of AAA otfielders, either. I just checked and there’s Brandon, Blanco, Larry Bigbie (.253 2HR 24RBI) and Doug Clark (.275 15 HR 69RBI). Plethora?????? Anyway, these players will not replace the production, either. You just can’t dump all of our offense and actually believe we will strengthen the team.

By Will

September 19, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson is definitely not the greatest 2nd basemen ever, but the Braves are absolutely better off overall with him out there as opposed to Prado.

By KC

September 19, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Overlord: Maddux was incredible in his prime, wasn’t he? I’ve heard it said that you can’t FULLY appreciate something until it’s gone… and in this case, I would say that’s true.

I never took Maddux for granted, but I would love to turn back the clock 12 years and watch him pitch in his prime one more time.

Leo had a great story about Maddux… He went out to mound to check on him, and Maddux said “Oh, I’m fine. I’m going to get him to ground out to 2nd base”. Leo returned to the dugout and told Bobby “He’s fine… he’s going to get him to ground out to 2nd base”. And sure enough, that’s exactly what happened.

Actually… it might have been a pop-up to 2nd. Can’t remember, but either way, the guy was a freak.

He should have been nicknamed the “Puppetmaster” because he controlled hitters. It was amazing.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville, hope you’re talking about defense because Kelly Johnson is just fine at the plate.

Also, Tony Pena has been outstanding on defense, based on everything I’ve read and heard, but he’s hitting .258 with a .277 OBP. He’ll either be a backup or out of the big leagues faster than you can say Rey Ordonez.

Finally, I’m not sure what you mean by up-side. Andruw’s 30. You’d think he’ll be much better next season than this season but he’s probably done being the offensive player his was in 2005 and 2006.

By Mark

September 19, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

This team won’t win the remaining 11 games because once again Chuck James is pitching tonight. Boy he and Cormier are terrible pitchers. James gets a pass because it is his second year and I expected him to go through the sophmore jinx.

Shaun, I agree with what you were saying earlier about the other teams playing in hitter friendly ball parks. My only problem with the braves is they have no fundamental. Is as if Cox doesn’t stress that to his players. I guess he wouldn’t since he is players manager.

We all know they can’t bunt, but they don’t hit and run well. They are poor on the bases. A good manager would always hit and run with guys like Chipper and Renteria because they can always put the ball in play.

By Mark

September 19, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

I really hope the Phillies overtake the Mets or at least win the wildcard because it would show that if a team is hungry enough they can overcome any obstacle. This Braves team has been known to whine about bad breaks. Well they haven’t had as many bad breaks as the Phillies.

We lost some key players, but I think we have a better pitching staff than Philly. They have wanted it more than the Braves. The Braves have never played with a since of urgency except for one season and that is 1995.

By Salty

September 19, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Gil Your 11:07 re: ‘27 Yankees…right on the mark.

BTW, thanks for the Richmond updates during the year…good info.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 19, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Good Lord, the grass is definitely greening up on the other side, already. Maybe due to all the fertilization it’s getting from all the BS being spread around here.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

KC sure it is that way, what i dont get is why he was not that good come october, he was good, but he had a hard time sometimes, not as in regular season.

By Mark

September 19, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

KC, Maddux is a great HOF pitcher that never won big games. He was great during the regular season, but he never won when it counted. He has over 300 wins, but he will never be as great as John Smoltz.

He has some playoff wins, but he wasn’t a guy you could count on if your team was on the brink of elimination.

Maddux career was sort of like the Braves so called run of success. Good in the regular season, but terrible in the post season and that includes his days with the Cubs and last year with the Dodgers.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Another point most who are advocating this trading of our production need to realize-even if we were to find the NEW Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz (yeah, like THAT will ever happen again), we still need offense. Realistically, if you trade Renteria, who will you get in return? How about for Diaz and/or Kelly Johnson? We’ve already discussed a potential trade with the Giants and most feel it unlikely that we could get Cain or Lincecum for Edgar (much less Rajai Davis thrown in). Now someone mentioned a AA or AAA pitcher from the Giants (I forget who and what player-maybe it was Coach). Now that is more realistic. However, when will this paragon of pitching promise pay dividends for the Braves? Another year? Two or three years? Wonderful-then we can go a couple of years with no pitching AND no offense.

Y’all, this needs to be done in stages-not all at once. In another year we should have some salary freed up. You go for a journeyman #3 or #4 and keep a little of your thunder. It’s going to be hard enough to get extra pitching AND a good CF replacement without having to worry about where the offense is going to come from.

By TampaBrave

September 19, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Yes the Braves have all the power in the world and score runs in droves, and conversely, get shut down by pitchers named Bergmann and Pinto because they cannot manufacture runs with any proficiency. Sure the pitching staff was much to blame, but the offensive guilt lies with the inability to score via smallball. The stats you quote can be interpreted to mean that we scored enough runs to win many more games than we did if the pitching had held up. While that is partly true, I cannot dismiss the high number of games we lost where we scored 3 or less runs, usually against mediocre pitching. Again, if you take all those runs we scored and average them out, we are 150-12, but statistics provide little help here. No number of stats can dismiss what my eyes have seen.

Paladin

Curious as to what “off” is.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Mark is right-Absolutely no sinse of urgency sense 1995.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

ncscoots: I just caught up on those posts. I saw the quote, and I’m not sure of the origin, concerning Diaz having a season rivaling Walker or Gwynn, and I would not suggest such a thing. I think more playing time for Diaz would result in an overall lower batting average than he has now. How low I don’t know, but I’d suspect he’d still be around a .300 hitter. He has been his whole career. But, even if he dropped 50 points off of it (.287 instead of .337), he’d still be hitting well enough to knock in 80 or so runs, assuming he is hitting behind guys who get on base frequently.

Payne: I hear ya on Chipper for MVP. I was in this same discussion last night. Though it was with a Dodger fan. Dodger fans only see blue, all else is a lie. Anywho, the exchange began concerning Prince Fielder. I suspect it was mentioned on the Dodger broadcast that Fielder is having an MVP caliber season. The Dodger fan scoffed at this and said it should be either Russell Martin or James Loney. I contended that it would probably be David Wright, but Chipper Jones should make it a tough enough choice. Chipper’s season is incredible. I knew he had it in him. I thought it’d be last year, and last year was good, but this year is just amazing. I hope he can pull out that batting title.

No way I would give up young, affordable, top talent with huge potential when you need starting pitching … I say trade [Johnson].
This makes absolutely zero sense. KJ is young and affordable and producing incredible numbers. Why trade him so you can play a no pop, singles hitter?

Just saw this on SI. It’s the players poll for smartest man in baseball…
1. Greg Maddux, Padres P….10%
2. Billy Beane, A’s G.M…..9%
3. Tony La Russa, Cards manager…..5%
4. Brad Ausmus, Astros C…..5%
5. Bobby Cox, Braves manager…..4%
6. Terry Ryan, Twins G.M…..3%
7. Derek Jeter, Yankees SS…..3%
8. Omar Minaya, Mets G.M…..3%
9. John Schuerholz, Braves G.M…..3%
10. Tom Glavine, Mets P…..2%
There he is, Bobby Cox, as voted by the players. Lots of Braves, or former Braves. Schuerholz, Cox, Maddux, Glavine… not too shabby. Don’t see Leyland on there though…

Don’t look now, but the Mets are falling apart. Is that what championship teams do? When the tough gets going, they hold it together for a few games and then tank? Hope the Bravos can hang in there. Just 10 more to go. Go out on a win streak for the ages guys. Win them all and see what happens…

GO BRAVES

By Mark

September 19, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Kelly is good hitter and all but he has a tough time with outside pitches. I think lately he starting to wear down due to fatigue because he been striking out a whole lot. He should be just fine. I would like to see him second base again and possibly platooning with Escobar. As I stated earlier Escobar isn’t quite ready to take over full time just yet. Don’t get me wrong he has all the skills and great baseball instincts, but I want to see if can make the adjustment like Francouer did. What I mean by that is Jeff changed his approach at the plate as soon as league figured him out and now they don’t know how to pitch him. They try get him to chase the high pitches which he starting to lay off.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Mark, Braves are fundamentally sound enough to be the second best offensive team in the league this season.

Lew, no way there getting Lincecum or Cain. It’s not going to happen. They’ll get either Lowry or Correia if they trade Renteria to the Giants, plus maybe a reliever or a platoon-type player.

The advantages of trading Renteria are they’ll get a pitcher that’s likely to be better than any other starter besides Smoltz and Hudson and they can use the salary they dumped to fill other holes (centerfield and/or more pitching).

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

TB “Off” is an old southern expression for “he ain’t from around here”. In other words, there are a lot of people in Atlanta, and Tampa, from “off”.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Lew: Here’s how you cover up the thump… Trade Renteria, Diaz, Marteen Prado, Corky Miller, and Tyler Yates to the Giants for one pitcher. Move Johnson to Left Field. Sign Alex Rodriguez and put him at Short Stop. Resign AJ. Secure Teixeira. Have a batting order of Johnson, Yunel, Chipper, A-Rod, Teixeira, Francoeur, AJ, McCann, Pitcher. (or any other combination, it don’t matter). Have a starting rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, New Guy, James/Reyes/Cormier/Who ever. That should be enough stick, enough glove, and enough arm to get the job done. All these guys go on 5 or 6 year deals, front loaded, so Liberty picks up the tab. HA! Try’n’stop us now!!!!

Seriously though, I’m not worried about a loss of offense. We won it all with the worst offense in the Majors. Right now we’re in the top 3rd in the Majors in every offensive category. We can drop a notch or two in stick if it means an improvement in arms.

By Mark

September 19, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Shaun, obviously you’re not understanding what I mean. The Braves back in 2003 with Sheffield and Javy Lopez had a great hitting regular season team, but as soon as they played the Cubs they choked.

This team has always suffered the fundamentally. They can’t lay down bunts when they are needed. Tampabrave has pointed out that this team scores runs in bunches, but when they face a good pitchers they choke. We have been beaten by John Maine twice not to mention Bergman and Pinto yet these goys get tattooed by other teams.

Shaun, why do you think we have been so terrible in the postseason and why we are so terrible in close games. We suck in close games. I know you are going to say the pitching which is true, but there has been plenty of time this year where we couldn’t get the bunt down or execute a hit and run. This team under Cox hasn’t played ABC baseball since the days Otis Nixon in the early 90’s.

The only reason we did that was we had guys who were veterans that took it upon themselves to do the little things.

By don

September 19, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

MVPs rarely come from teams who can do no better than third in their division. You can forget Chippy.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Greg Maddux Argues Tight Strike Zone

Short video from youtube, 11 seconds, but it will make you LOL.

I hope some of you watch it.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave, not sure where that 150-12 comes from, but okay.

Also, doesn’t it follow that if you have a mediocre or bad pitching staff, of course you are going to lost a lot of games where you don’t score more than three runs?

Do you know how many times they have done that? Have you bothered to look? They’ve done it 57 times. Only four teams in the NL have done it fewer and that doesn’t take into account where some of those four teams play their home games (in hitter’s parks).

By braint

September 19, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Everyone says the Braves lacked late inning clutch hits…Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that they have the worst bench I’ve ever seen on a MLB ballclub? If you started the inning with a PH it was usually an out and if you had a runner on and sent up a PH late than it was usually an unproductive out. Seriously, look at the numbers, statistically, this has got to be the worst bench in history. Does anyone know? Next lineup should be: Escobar (2B), Renteria (SS), Chipper (3B), Tex (1B), McCann (C), Frenchy (RF), Hunter (CF), Johnson (LF). Package Reyes, Prado, Lillibridge, Devine for a SP. Our bullpen is fine as long as Yates in somewhere else. It will be great if Gonzo comes back…

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

“don” We would rather forget you. Much rather.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Dude, I said they would not get Lincecum or Cain. Have you perhaps noticed that Lowrey is injured (or at least was recently)? I’m not so sure I would trade an All Star, potential batting champ, making $6 million for a pitcher with injury potential and a reliever we don’t even need. That one makes zero sense at all. Better to get a number three or four guy to eat innings and stop the bleeding at the end of the rotation. Let James pitch in the 4 spot and let the rest (and Hampton), battle for number 5. Keep our offense. Have them take major bunting, hit and run and taking extra base practice in Spring Training. That’s what ST is for-work on fundamentals.

Now Kelly Johnson-yes he has trouble going to his right. I’m sure he will work on it all winter, just like he did last winter, learning to play the position. As far as not doing well with outside pitches. Uh, practice again? Look at the strides made by Francoeur on his weaknesses and what lots of work has produced. I fail to see why the same couldn’t be true with KJ

By Mark

September 19, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Tennesseepaul, I like what you are saying but man you must think we are the Yankees or have an unlimited payroll. I love what you are saying, but we could never get A-Rod. He probably wants 30 million after this year and I can see the Yankees or Red Sox paying it.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave, also, something you may want to look into is have the Braves been beaten by “mediocre” pitching any more than other good teams. I mean, baseball has a long season and I would assume that even good teams lose to mediocre pitchers a fair number of times.

By Salty

September 19, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

There was a time when an everyday player was never traded straight up for a pitcher; now the talk is multiples for pitchers. That’s a bit scary, IMO.

Certainly the Braves will target pitching; however, so will everyone else (I’m champion of the obvious today, aren’t I?) :-{

If there’s a dearth of pitching, then for cryin’ out loud, don’t sacrifice your strengths: offense/defense in a meaningful way. Yes, good pitching beats good hitting…yet I’ll take my chances 3-4 days out of 5, my lineup gets yours. Times have changed, for the present…quit chasing yesterday’s gameplan if the parts don’t exist to fill the today’s card.

And Renteria…man’s gotta stay at least one more year. I’m with Lew and others…Escobar is a gem…but he needs the mentoring that Edgar can provide. One more season playing multiple positions won’t diminish Yunel’s skills as a SS long-term.

By Mark

September 19, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Shaun you are making some valid points, but please don’t look at the stats when it comes to this team. We have always looked good on paper. You have to remember whose managing when it comes to this team.

Think about it, this team has a better bullpen statistics, better hitting and plays good defense but we are still in same position as last year and that is with a Met team that isn’t as good as last year.

This team is so funny to me. We have won 4 of 6 series this year against the mets, yet we are only 9-9 against them. The only stat that counts is wins and losses.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

TenPaul-Where, exactly is all of this NEW great pitching coming from? There is none out there and available. There are very few great pitchers out there, very few real good pitchers, either. No one wants to give them up, because there just ain’t enough to go around-period. Yes, we won with the worst offense when we had three HOF pitchers at the front of the rotation and plenty of good four and five guys. That never happened before in all of ML history and it isn’t ever going to happen again.

We need to keep most of our thump. No matter what, Andruw is gone. That’s more than enough to replace without dumping Renteria, KJ, Tex and some of the others mentioned here on the blog. We will be damned lucky to adequately replace Andruw and to pick up a journeyman or two this winter. No one will give us an ace. We will have to wait a year or so when money is freed up. It will take all that is available to patch the holes this winter. Even if we trade for a minor league stud or two, they won’t help for another year or two. I don’t want to listen to all of the b!tch!ng and moaning if we have another losing season or two waiting for the kids to become aces. Besaides-check out our own young pitchers at Danville and Myrtle Beach. We have some studs of our own on the way. Check out Hanson, Rohrbough, Medlin, Ortegana, Osuna, Barrett, Evarts and Jeffrey Locke. Lots of our own potential in the next couple of years.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Don’t know if Lowry has “injury potential” any more than every other pitcher. Also, I didn’t just name Lowry.

Also, of course Kelly Johnson has weaknesses but I’m not sure why he is a problem or why people are obsessing over him offensively. It would kind of be like focusing on what Chipper needs to do better.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

TP some comments on that list:

1. Weird that none of the 3 managers are not making the playoff, but not only that, if it was not by braves latest improved performance, all 3 managers would end the season with losing record.

2. I find the list very accurate, of the 10 the only guys i was not aware of as smart people were beane, Ryan and Ausmus, everybody else are people that know how to win (even bobby) in life.

3. People that i think got some votes: Pujols, schilling, posada, lasorda, stottlemeyer, leyland, torre, rivera, paul oneil, ichiro, pete rose.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Mark, are they in the same position as last season? Last I checked, they are over .500 this season.

Okay, the only stat is wins and losses. What leads to wins? Scoring more an allowing fewer runs than your opponents. What leads to runs or prevents runs? Getting on base, keeping hitters off base, gaining bases, keeping the other team from gaining bases, things that can largely be measured with stats. So why not look at stats when it comes to this team or any other team?

You’re basically saying don’t look at the stats when they don’t jive with what you believe, which is kind of backwards in my opinion.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

Salty, when was that time when no position player was traded for a pitcher? I certainly can’t remember it.

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave, you must not read my posts very often (not that I blame you). Of course fundamental baseball would be smarter. But since we all know how the team’s gonna be run it would kind of be stupid to give up the long ball too, wouldn’t it?

Maddux is to pitching what Superfly is to pimps. Nuff said.

By Thrillhouse44

September 19, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Overlord, that’s a great link. Thanks for the laugh.

Just read the write up on last night’s game. Diaz is a funny dude. Seems like he would be fun to kick a couple cold ones back with.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Mark,

Power pitching, a good closer and good defense wins out in October. These things have contributed to the Braves losing in October.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7216768

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Grinch, what are the Braves doing that is fundamentally unsound besides not pitching well behind Smoltz and Hudson?

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Lew: Teams will trade pitchers. Teams with pitching will listen to trades to get their other holes filled. The thing about the thin-ness of the pitching market is, it will require more in a trade, but it isn’t unobtainable. For the Giants, they are seeking to get younger in the field. They have an incredibly young pitching staff and some depth to it. They also have money to purchase free agents if so desired. If the right deal is made, they will let go of one of the pitchers they think they can live without if it improves the youth and/or production of the overall team.

And, secondly, I’m not saying drop the teams offense down to dead last. But a move that takes this offense from tops in the league to middle of the pack, but pulls the starting pitching up at the same time would make the team more well rounded and offer it a better chance at winning.
Pointing to 1995 is pointing to two extremes… extremely good pitching and extremely poor hitting.

By Lew

September 19, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I mention Lowrey because so many list him in their wishes. I say injury potential because he has been shut down because of an arm injury. He has not pitched since Aug.29 and only went three innings then. Indication of future events, maybe? Ya think?

As for anyone else-just who do you have in mind? Who else has an abundance of young starters that needs a shortstop? The Pirates? You mean all of those great young pitchers that end up on the DL because the Pirates system has no clue how to use them? Do you mean the Pirates that are such a pain in the @$$ to deal with-who aren’t particularly overjoyed with LaRoche’s production after last year’s tooth pulling trade marathon? Maybe the Royals (who don’t have much pitching anyway) who couldn’t afford Edgar’s $6 million? Maybe the White Sox, who already turned down a supposed deal for Edgar at the trade deadline. Y’all need to get realistic. Shortstop is the one ML position that is loaded with stud players. Not that many teams NEED a SS of his caliber and even fewer still have enough pitching to make it worth our while for us to trade for.

Maybe you’re thinking the Marlins, like some here have mentioned. You mean the Marlins who already have their own SS potential Batting Champion and MVP in Hanley Ramirez? So many think we should trade Edgar for Dontrelle. You know, Dontrelle, who has had a steady decline going for three years, yet is thought of by his team as a #1 starter? I repeat, just who do you think needs him, can afford him and would trade what we (and everyone else) needs-pitching?

By Lew

September 19, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun-One more thing-I agree about KJ and if you had actually read the post, you would have seen that. That response was addressed to those who DO obsess about his shortcomings. I’m not one of them. I think getting rid of him would be foolish. He can hit, he can run, he can hit for power. He can hit anywhere in the lineup with no drop off of production or complaint. He walks a lot and scores runs. He is cheap and he can play the outfield as well. I fail to see a downside with the guy. Yes, I know his defense could improve, but he’s only played that position for a year. Not bad, as far as I’m concerned.

By KC

September 19, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Mark and Overlord:

Why haven’t Glavine and Maddux even been (on a whole) quite as good in October as they were in regular season… where as Smoltz was actually BETTER in the post-season?

Here’s what I believe:

Maddux and Glavine were control/finesse pitchers, where as Smoltz is a power pitcher.

In October, there’s got to be a lot of adrenaline pumping. I think that helps a power pitcher. Also, when a guy like Smoltz wants to reach down and put a little something extra on a pitch… he can. A power pitcher like Smoltz has to pace himself somewhat in the regular season. But in October, he’s going to leave it all out there… especially when he HAS to make a pitch.

When Smoltz was closing, he put the pedal to the floor every time out and threw 97. But when he’s starting he throws 92-93. That proves that there’s a difference between Smoltz when he’s pacing himself, and Smoltz when he’s balls to the wall. And in October, he goes balls to the wall and is able to step up his game.

But a finesse pitcher can’t do that. If a finesse pitcher were to try and reach back for something extra… he might throw 90 instead of 87, but he would risk sacrificing location and possibly movement in the process, which would obviously be very, very bad for a finesse guy. For the same reason, adrenaline is NOT a good thing for a finesse pitcher.

In short, a power pitcher (with the right mental makeup) is capable of stepping it up in a big game… where as a finesse pitcher is the same whether it’s April or October. He can’t do anything differently.

But if you CAN’T step up your game in October, you’re probably not going to get quite as good a result as you did in the regular season… because now your playing the best teams, and hitters that might have even stepped up their games in October.

I’m convinced that’s why Glavine and Maddux weren’t quite as good in October, while Smoltz was better. It’s not a matter of mental makeup or “choking”. All 3 of those guys have ice-water in their veins.

Smoltz has the physical tools to excel in October. Maddux and Glavine never did.

By JD

September 19, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

So, I was wondering where all the Mets fans are now…

By Lew

September 19, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Ten Paul-And who, exactly is that pitcher the Giants are willing to give up? We’ve been repeatedly told they won’t trade Cain or Lincecum. Lowrey is hurt-not likely to pitch again this year-in other words, a major question mark. Anyone else they would be willing to offer is at least a year or two away from helping us. Check out my 1:01 post. Just who do you have in mind? What team and who would they give up, if they even needed Edgar?

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Mark: Not all of my posts are serious. Except A-Rod posts. I’m damn straight on those. He’s the next Braves Short Stop. Not a doubt in my mind. Right after we resign AJ for 20 a year and Tex for 18 a year, we’ll add A-Rod for 31 a year and re-up with Smoltz and Chipper for 19 a year each. Then I’ll be granted box seats for all games home and away and traveling privileges with the team.

I hope that clears it up some.

By The Grinch

September 19, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Shaun, bunting and base stealing are the two things that stick out glaringly; those problems (both the players honing their abilities and the call for them at the appropriate times) should be handled by the manager. They have been called on to do these things at the wrong times or not called on to do them at the right ones and then been fundamentally unsound in their execution. It wouldn’t be hard to fix, but for some reason there seems to be no hurry. This is why we win so many games 16-5 and lose so many 4-3. And yes, I understand that I’m repeating myself and that you already know all this and will argue against it anyway.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Giants have more pitchers than Lowry. Correia is one.

White Sox and Braves could re-open talks. I’m sure there are some others.

Besides that, Lowry is a pitcher. Pitchers get hurt. Only thing that is alarming is the 107.5 pitches per start at the age of 24. But he hasn’t thrown all that many innings since then so I’d take a chance on him along with a throw-in player.

But that’s just a hypothetical. I can see the Giants or White Sox give up a decent starter (one that could be inserted behind Smoltz and Hudson) for Renteria. Maybe Garland or Vazquez. Or Lowry or Correia. There’s four names that I think would do better than anyone else the Braves had in the rotation after Smoltz and Hudson.

So much anger. Chill out.

By Efrim

September 19, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Edgar to the Tigers

Something to the Pirates

Maholm and Mclouth to the Braves

Thoughts???

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Lew: I do not know. Unfortunately the GM’s have stopped taking my calls and issued restraining orders. But the last conversations we had implied that teams are willing to listen and make deals if the deal makes sense for them. But as soon as I started tossing out player names they hung up on me.

I just don’t think the overall pitching market is as thin as perceived. Just the Free Agent pitching market. That market is littered with Redman’s and Wells’s all over the place. I don’t think any of those no-talent assclowns is going to do anything remotely close to helping this team. They’ll just take all the money and eat all the cold cuts.

Pitching will be the focus of the offseason and any good pitching we are to get is going to come via trade. If it comes via Free Agent signing, count it as wasted money and false hope.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Greg Maddux Argues Tight Strike Zone

There is the link again for those of you that would like to watch gregg maddux tell an umpire how stupid he is with as much finesse as his pitching.

KC i agree on that overpowering thing, adrenaline makes people overanxious and that helps smoltz the most, but i think that helps changeup pitchers also, maybe as much. Smoltz has the physical tools to excel in October. Maddux and Glavine never did. I dont think never is accurate enough. Better double check, especially 1995.

Thrillhouse44 you are welcome.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Smoltz has the physical tools to excel in October. Maddux and Glavine never did.

KC Do you really believe that? And am I wrong again, or was it not Glavine that pitched the deciding game in our only WS win?

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Maybe the Pirates will be interested in Thorman. He’s a great young thumper! =).

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Overlord, pitcher K rate is a major factor in post-season success. So it would follow that the higher the K rate, the better the post-season pitcher. There is something to Smoltz being more successful in the post-season than Glavine or Maddux.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7216768

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Yup paladin i think KC is not remembering playoffs very well.

By Efrim

September 19, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

There is nothing out there in trades so that is why I said Maholm would make some sense. Mclouth is a solid young player.

Not sure who the Tigers could send over to the Pirates. Maybe Jair Jurrjens?

By Supes

September 19, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

So this is what it feels like to have a “troll free Mets fan” blog! I like it:)

Go Nats, nothing will be sweeter than seeing NY Mets miss the playoffs all together. Hopefully the Phillies don’t fold tent, and keep winning putting the pressure right on the Mets. I hope the Wild Card comes out of the West, therefore making it possible for the Mets to lose out on the NL East and playoffs all together.

It will truly be a glorious day and we will enjoy a “Troll Free” blog for the rest of the winter months, until spring training, where they will show up again telling us how their NY Mets will win the WS!

By Efrim

September 19, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Smoltz is a good postseason pitcher because he can miss bats. Maddux and Glavine weren’t as good because he can’t miss bats.

By ncscoots

September 19, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Let’s see…make the pitching a little better and the offense a little worse. That about the temper of the blog? So basically just keep the strength of the team overall about the same; in other words, another fine 3rd place finish in 2008. Beauty.

Can the Braves pick up enough pitching to have a suddenly dominant staff? No. If the starters aren’t dominating, can the team win playing small-ball offense? No.

What some are advocating here (“my kingdom for a pitcher!”) guarantees a 2008 filled with 70+ 6-3 losses, and white-knuckle either-ways in all the rest. No thanks.

Heck, if the Twins remain sane and don’t trade Santana (the opposite of my recurring dream), just give me John Thompson redux and one more banger. The days of having a sub-3.50 staff ERA are gone, bubba; fielding an offense as if you still had such a staff is not a recipe for success, IMO.

By KC

September 19, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Overlord and Paladin:

Let me clarify something on my earlier statement “Smoltz has the physical tools to excel in October. Maddux and Glavine never did.”

I’m speaking a general sense. I’m saying that Smoltz has the physical makeup and style (power) of pitching that enables him to be consistently better in October, year in and year out, than he is/was in the regular season… where as you would get the same version of Maddux and Glavine in October as you got in the regular season…

That’s not to say that Glavine or Maddux never had any great starts in October OR that Smoltz never had a bad one. Obviously, that is not the case. And as in 1995, Glavine strung together several fantastic starts, and his ERA over those starts were better than his regular season ERA.

However, you could probably also find a 3-5 stretch over the regular season in which he pitched much better than his general season totals. Maddux and Glavine had hot stretches like every player. In 95, Glavine got hot at the right time. But you couldn’t count on that every October the way you could (with rare exception) with Smoltz.

With Glavine, it seemed to me that however he looked in late September, was exactly how he’d look in October. If memory serves me correctly, he was very hot in late September of 95, and carried that right through the post season. But when he was scuffling a bit down the stretch (as was the case in 2002), you could look for a less impressive October performance.

Again for a pitcher like Glavine, the post-season is just a continuation of the regular season in the sense that he can’t do anything differently than he does it the rest of the year.

Whereas for Smoltz… a switch flips in October YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, his stuff actually gets better, and he becomes harder to hit.

By KC

September 19, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Overlord: I’ve seen every playoff game since 1991, and have many of them on tape.

Again,I didn’t not mean to imply that Glavine or Maddux NEVER excelled in the post-season. Just that they never had the ability to consistently pitch better in October than they did the rest of the season.

Their stuff was the same in October as it was in April. They were great pitchers, so the nearly always kept their team in the game, whether they were on a hot streak or not.

But here’s what I guess I’m saying in a nutshell…

Glavine and Maddux were great pitchers and would sometimes go on hot streaks during which they would be nearly unhittable… as was the case with Glavine in 95.

HOWEVER, with Glavine and Maddux, those hot streaks were no more likely to occur in October than they were at any point in the regular season.

Whereas with Smoltz, you can pretty much count on it every October.

Again, that’s not a knock on Maddux or Glavine… that was just a product of the ability Smotlz had to put more on his pitches in the post-season.

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: I’m not sure how removing one guy from the line up suddenly makes the team a terrible offensive team. If Renteria is shipped out and replaced with Yunel, what’s the loss (from an 860 OPS to an 830 OPS)? If AJ walks and we are left to replace a .220 average, a 140Ks and a .730 OPS is it going to be that difficult to make up for it?

Removing KJ from the line up is over kill. But trading Renteria for a pitcher is not. This offense, for the future and right now, is CJones. CJones hit. CJones run. CJones hit and run. Followed by McCann, Francoeur, Teixeira, and KJ. Yunel covers for Renteria. That leaves left field the same. Which means improving on a .730 OPS in Center, or at least getting the same production… i.e. a guy who has an infinite number of chances to knock in the run, and succeeds in only a small fraction of them.

Tell me this, do the D-Backs have a shut down lock out 3 HOFer rotation? No. And they don’t have the top notch hitting machine we do. But they are hanging on to the top of the toughest division in the NL against a team with 2 Cy Young’s in the rotation and a former 4 time Cy Young winner.
This game is about pitching. I’m not saying aim for the bottom on offense and go for the moon on pitching like we had in 1995. But I think we have a strong enough offense to use some of it in bargaining for a better pitching staff. And since we have a position of depth and strength at SS, we might as well use it to our advantage. We lost a ton of games because our 3-5 couldn’t average more than 5 innings a start, meaning the pen was out there attempting to hold on to slim leads for the majority of the game. Only one guy down there did that all season, and honestly, I’d be more interested in seeing what he’d do as a starter.

I don’t think there’s a “p” in Thomson if you are suggesting bringing back the Big Red Sweaty DL man.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

I think what most are for is trading Renteria to get pitching because that way the team can get a better pitcher for cheaper than they would on the free agent market. Escobar is capable of playing short everyday at a decent level and the Braves could use that extra money they may get from trading away Renteria’s salary on other holes.

True, it’s not likely Escobar can do what Renteria did this season or is likely to do next season, but it’s not like the offense will drop off that much, especially when you consider they’ll have Teixeira the entire season. If they get just a little more quality pitching, that could go a long way.

Something else to consider, this is still a team not that far out of contention this season. Just think what a little more pitching and maybe a little less offense might do.

By Carroll Rogers

September 19, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

new blog should be up very soon. also there’s a story about skip and coming back from congestive heart failure on the front of the website in case you missed it.

and also, I will post this on the new blog as well, but Tim Tucker is looking for fans who live far away from Atlanta who have watched the Braves on TBS for years and will be pretty dismayed not to have them there next year. E-mail tim at ttucker@ajc.com and include your phone number so he can call you. Thanks!

By TennesseePaul

September 19, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

I’ll say this about the Big 3, because I said it before and it needs repeating.

Of the Big 3, Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz, Smoltz is the only one that started his career great and so far is the only one ending his career great. Well, I guess with these 3 “great” is a relative term. All three are doing well, but Smoltz is doing better than the other 2.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

KC, you’re right.

We can look at it like this: Great pitchers who live on ground balls and defense, are more likely to suffer from balls finding holes over the course of a relative few games. Over the course of the regular season, these pitchers a) are facing more teams with few hitters who can hit the ball hard and get it past fielders as often and b) ground balls may find holes over the same number of games as in the post-season but we don’t notice because their overall numbers are good.

In the post-season, power pitchers, on the other hand, are more likely to prevent hitters from even making contact in the first place. Obviously if a hitter can’t make contact the ball can’t find a hole.

By Stu

September 19, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I’m curious… since the Braves have the best pythagorean record in the NL East, and are tied for the best pr in the NL, should they consider “standing pat?”

Considering we have Tex for a full year next year; Hampton hopefully contributing; Reyes ready to maybe step up, etc, might not the best move be just to play the cards we have?

Course there’s still the question of CF. Personally, I hope KJ or Lillibridge might fit there, but don’t know if that’s likely.

By Paladin

September 19, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

KC I agree with you that Smoltz is able to trip a switch when it is a big game, October or not. But, to say that Maddux and Glavine, to a lesser degree, did not have the “physical tools” is ridiculous. There have been many hitters who were great, some of them HOF, during the season who were not exactly Mr. Octobers. There are a number of factors that can’t be simplified to “physical tools”. Nor mental. Stuff happens, apparently to everybody.

By Shaun

September 19, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Stu, I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to stand pat. Maybe if you have a young team that you already know is good, but mostly you always want to try to improve if it’s possible.

By TampaBrave

September 19, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

You are so irritating. You constantly change variables in the equation to draw and support your conclusions. You are full of shyt.

By wg

September 19, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

KC, I agree with you on Maddux and Glavine but I have always been of the opinion that POWER PITCHERS are the best to have in short series. Over the course of a 162 game season, hitters cannot make adjustments in their hitting style daily to accomodate a particular pitcher. In a short series, where you have two like Maddux and Glavine who cannot over power the hitter, it is a little easier for a hitter to adjust but with a power pitcher, he can just come right at you. I’m not taking anything away from Maddux and Glavine because without them, the Braves would not have gone to the post season nearly as much.

By ncscoots

September 19, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

TPaul, not saying that removing one guy turns the team into an offensive nightmare; more that the likely pitching additions aren’t going to be team-changing. Some posters seem to think adding pitching means you can play without bats, LOL.

To my way of thinking, though, if both Edgar and AJ are gone, the Braves are counting on a lot of young players to play, well, not like young players. As currently constituted, the team could field a 2008 offense of Chipper, Tex, and 6 other players with less than 3 years experience each. Peaks and valleys go hand-in-hand with that, I think.

Yeah, I know, no “p”, LOL. No proofreading again, should have said “Thomson-like” :-) He had a pretty good first year here, for a guy completely off the radar.

By Rodger

September 19, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Overlord, that’s a hilarious Maddux clip.

By KC

September 19, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Paladin: All I mean by “they don’t have the same physical tools as Smoltz” is that Smoltz was blessed with the “Stuff” to be a power pitcher, where as Glavine and Maddux have always had to rely more on location and guile.

Obviously they had enough in the way of physical tools to be HOF pitchers. Not suggesting they don’t have physical ability. Just not the same power arm Smoltz has.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Yes Rodger to me it ws really funny, and if you notice, he keeps walking backwards, so the umpire follows him, looks to me he wanted to make sure it didnt look as if he was challenging the ump, but the other way around. He just thought about that on the mound, and completely made the ump look stupid. I think even the ump LOL, not sure.

By Overlord

September 19, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Rodger did you like the finesse he put into it? Just great, LOL.

The ump goes, like, im sorry?, and he just goes like, im just saying you are a dumb a$$…..

By Rory

September 19, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Has anyone noticed the amazing resurgance of Rafael Soriano? Since giving up his last homer, his stat line is as follows:

14.1 innings 6 hits 3 walks 16 K’s 0 Runs

For all the slack he was getting during his struggles, his recent performance is nothing short of amazing.

By Lester Reyes

September 20, 2007 4:57 AM | Link to this

I’d prefer Edgar win the batting title, as it will increase his trade value for the offseason, plus he’s been available to help the team for much more of this season than Chipper “Luke Appling ain’t got nothing on me” Jones. Oh yeah, the obligatory addressing of all the “why should we trade Edgar?” hysteria: people, he’s gonna be our best bargaining chip this offseason (unless you’re willing to trade Yunel or Teixeira), and in case you haven’t noticed, there’s precious little coming down the pipeline to assist the starting pitching staff, so a trade must be made. Sure, he’s great, sure I’d love for him to be able to stay, but asking a major-league-ready SS like Yunel to move to 2B would be asking him to take a major-league step back in his development: major-league-quality shortstops don’t grow on peach trees, despite the organization’s uncanny recent ability to develop them. I could go on, but it’s just not worth it. I remain grateful none of us works in MLB in any capacity.

By Lester Reyes

September 20, 2007 5:30 AM | Link to this

Overlord, that Maddux clip was great, thanks for sharing. Here’s one that came up as a “related” clip, but it’s of the Braves celebrating in the ATL Fulton Co. Stadium clubhouse immediately after winning it all in ‘95. Were they really ever that young? (Were any of us?) Chipper had amazing heart and displayed it in the brief clip they showed of him—what the hell happened? (Insert joke about Hooters/child-support-settlement here.) By the way, anyone else notice that Peter “stop calling me Mr. Redenbacher, dammit!” Gammons looks remarkably less jowelly these days than back then?

By Lester Reyes

September 20, 2007 5:43 AM | Link to this

Sorry, forgot to include the link in my last post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACrpubC1uVE&NR=1

By No Dawgs Here

September 20, 2007 7:52 AM | Link to this

Well, all in all it does not matter. The Braves are going to miss the post season, yet again. Chipper winning a batting title means nothing to the team. So what? He finally had an above average year. You’d think with the millions he got paid, he’d be able to do this every year. The Braves only have 2 pitchers worth a crap. Mike Hampton was a waste. Jo Jo Reyes is absolutely horrible. Until they can bring another quality pitcher to the club, the Brave will continue to just miss the play-offs. So all the praise for Chipper (Chippy) (Choker) Whatever is meaningless.

Braveheart, my friend, you need help. Where do all these numbers come from? Do you have a life? Numbers are meaningless. Chipper does get hits with RISP. But, usually when the Bravos are already winning. I’m talking about clutch situations. He chokes. Has always done so, and probably will continue to do so. Before you start spewing numbers, watch the games.

By J

September 20, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

How’d this story get past the race baiters at the AJC? Seems it should have been about Edgar getting held back by The Man instead of extolling the virtues of a white dude. Somebody must be on vacation.

By yellowjax

September 20, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Why is it that almost every time Matt Diaz’s name comes up in these blogs its about who can we get for him (and others) in a trade. Now tell me why you would want to part with guy Diaz. He has hit very well in the clutch. He is one of the best “bad ball” hitters I have ever seen (nice, compact, quick swing reminds me of a healthy Bob Horner). He doesn’t seem to whine about sharing playing time in left. I understand that if he were playing everyday his average would be a bit lower but he would still be among the team leaders. He has improved into a very reliabe defensive outfielder. His salary is low (I’m not sure when he is due a new deal) and he seems to be a real good guy. Tell me again why you would want to trade proven consistency and reliability for potential?

By steve brown

September 20, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Why isn’t this titled Chipper and Renteria vie for batting title. Isn’t Renteria on our team. Carroll, you shouldn’t have a job that requires sensitive thinking. Sad indeed.

By Either Orr

September 20, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Carroll??

Just read your headline. I didn’t read any blog entries other than the one by Steve Brown at 1:48.

He said exactly what I was logging in to post!

What’s up with this “Chipper” stuff?

He’s had a great year! He’s been clutch! I love what Chipper is doing this year! But what about Edgar?

Who carried this team on his back early in the season…. I’m talking about the part of the season when the Braves were “ACTUALLY STILL IN IT?”

It was Edgar!!!! I know the team is much better with Chipper in the lineup and the record without Chipper speaks for itself…. but the record in August and early in September with Chipper in the lineup was nothing to brag about. If Edgar hadn’t been in the lineup early in the year when the Braves were winning and Chipper was struggling… the Braves might have been a sub .500 team in April.
What the heck is Edgar?? Chopped liver?

How about “Pair of Braves Have Shot At Batting Title”…. or “Chipper and Edgar, Down to the Wire For Batting Title?”

Carroll….. why didn’t you include Edgar? If Edgar reads the AJC sports online section, he may want to ask you the same thing.

What will you tell him if he asks?

By mark

September 21, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

Most out there dont know what a blessing health is, me a professional photographer coming off my 11th neck operation in 24 years for a nagging mean tumor that seems to say no to staying away..and still shooting photos…Mike Hampton a great competitor, I know is just just way upset inside watching othersa for past 2 years do what he can’t do now.I hope Mike comes back next season and pitches awesome. This Braves season has been somewhat disappointment but for the most part its a young team, and injuries to the pitching staff have hurt.How many other managers say by to their closer deep in a pennant race when he shows disrespect as a team player(thats what we heard).But the Braves hitters this season have been fun , I hope they are able to keep this team together a few more seasons, I thionk they can win it.Its too bad A. Jones couldnt be signed again before end of season , you really need that defence, Funny that a agent named Scott really is the factor if the Braves are kept together or not. You need 25 Chipper Jones, and Smoltz on a team 10 million a year is fine with them.Go Braves! Mark, Atlanta