Braves

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Escobar is what Julio Franco was 25 years ago…..

By ObiWanKobe

September 12, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

I agree, but Salty’s mashing too

By ken sly

September 12, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

I am just bummed about this season and the way it is ending.

DOB, have you listened to the new RILO KELLY? I think that you would dig

By Kevin C

September 12, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Good post, we need to improve the pitching and trading Renteria would help. Names associated with the Braves; Towers, Blanton? Garland and from the New York papers maybe Glavine. Anyone who can be a solid number 3, getting back Gonzalez and maybe Hampton would be tremendous boost but would they be back to pre injury levels?

DOB I do have one question, do the Braves, ie. JS and Bobby, think we can solve our starter issue from the farm system? Boyer or Lerew?

thanks in advance

By Lee in S. GA

September 12, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Good blog DOB and I agree completely. I have stated it before and will again; Escobar could 1 day be as important to this team as Jeter is to the Yankees. He will be starting next season whether at 2nd or ss. Cox will not keep him on the bench any longer and it would be foolish to do this anyway. Renteria is the odd man out and I have no doubt he is gone after this season.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts thats the point i support, and i think even if chipper is healthy, it would be bad for the lineup not to have edgar. We dont need a primetime CF, just someone that catches the ball and gets on base, not an allstar, why? because if we had better pitching even with the bad season AJ had we would be in the playoffs, so jsut a little upgrade would be enough.

Ron dont you like the idea of yunel at RF and moving Jeff to CF? I mean, i know edgar would be a better choice than KJ at 2nd, but even as KJ does have the experience in the OF, he doesnt have the arm to go to RF, Other choice would be Diaz at RF but its the same story. They could convert Yunel to RF, that would be an easier task than converting chipper to LF or KJ to 2b. So why not do it.

By Ron Roberts

September 12, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Glad you pointed out the bullpen and their stats showing up well. Fact is, we all get peeved when somebody out of the ‘pen gives up a winning run in any one of those awful extra-inning games we lost throughout this season, but more often than not, we saw ‘em hold and hold and hold and hold the game right where it was only for us to watch our offense go into “shut-down” mode beyond the 6th or 7th inning in those games.

That’s of late, anyhow; it was maddening for awhile to see Soriano or Wickman blow a late lead and for us to go to extras. But even when that happened, our other bullpen arms usually held on as long as they could, while our offense did nothing.

And while I’d prefer to keep Edgar, myself, (especially with Chipper’s recurring injury issues), I can see the argument for shipping him off, too. Just not sure what we’d get for him at his age and price tag. Why? Well, I mean, he’s (as you said) in the top 7-10 shortstops in the game,(which I’d agree with), but you couple that with his age and you have to believe that other teams would value their starting pitching more than coveting an aging shortstop who may hit for average and field the ball fairly well, but comes in the twilight of his career.

I guess it all depends on what we can get for him, and who’s available to spell Chipper at 3B if/when we need that.

By Chop Chop

September 12, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Overlord,

If the Braves improve the starting rotation by trading Renteria, they wouldn’t even need as much offense. Besides, they’ll still have Chipper, Teixeira, Francoeur, McCann, Johnson, Diaz (presumably), and Escobar in the lineup. That still sounds awfully good to me. Good starting pitching is important. I guess more than a decade’s worth of it wasn’t enough to convince some of us.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

If braves win tonight, there is a chance they go 15-2 last 16, including tonights game. Giving us a record of a record of 89-73. We would end tied withd SD if they finish 11-8 to en d the season. And a triple tie with phillie if they go 13-5. Im assuming they will lost 1 with brewers and 1 with phillie, and sweep everybody else (fish, nats, astros). We could even sweep brewers since they are so bad away from home. Wow this is a hard task, but since teams ahead of us are not doing that good i have to think it could even be easier than why im typing.

GOOOOOOOOOO BRAVES!!!!!!

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

plus since there are 2 days off before phillies series and 1 of those is just before we face them, we can fix things so we put tim and john on the hill.

There is still hope people. Need to win tonight though.

By Lee in S. GA

September 12, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

You cannot blame ownership being secretive on how much money they will spend. Agents like Boras will only up their price; however, if this team cannot afford to sign someone like Cameron in CF we are in trouble. The Mets will keep spending, possibly the Phillies and you do not want this division to end up like the A.L. East. You all of a sudden have 1 or 2 teams spending all the money and reaping all the benefits.

Pitching will have to be obtained via trade. There is not much available as far as free agency goes.

By KC

September 12, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Yes of course, the writing’s on the wall for Renteria… unless the Braves are able to quite significantly increase payroll, and can fill their needs entirely by way of free agency. But I agree, that’s unlikely.

My guess is that the payroll will be closer to 90 than 80 next year, but I’d be hesitant to bet on a payroll in the mid-90’s.

Most of the money they’ll save on Andruw will go to pay Tex next year. And whatever’s left will be added to the money they’ll save on Wickman… which should be just enough to cover pay raises to Smoltz and Hudson.

So that probably brings the payroll back right about where it was to start the 07 season… only, without a center-fielder.

Let’s say the Braves have another 8 million to spend this year (that’s just my guess). My personal feeling is that money will go to Tom Glavine this winter.

So there probably isn’t any money left to pursue a center-fielder… unless they trade Renteria. Of course, Renteria also has great trade value, so he could be swapped for a younger, inexpensive CF, in which case the Braves have a little loose change to do with as they please.

Either way… Renteria will be dealt to fill the CF hole.

By ncscoots

September 12, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Having been wrong about players more than once this year (jed gets me on Thorman, the Grinch gets me on Davies; sue me, LOL), I guess I should toot my Escobar horn before Coach decides he was the only guy to see him coming :-) I loved the guy when I saw him in the minors, and touted him here, long ago. He’s showed some of the rookie in him at times this year, but unleashing that 70 arm sure tends to make you forget any previous faux pas. I look forward to seeing him play everyday, but, man, I hate to see that Edgar go.

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

DOB

Agree with most of what you said. Only exception is that KJ is barely a serviceable 2Bman. I like his bat. I wish he could play OF. I hear about Brandon Jones, but we really haven’t seen him and he hasn’t seen the ML pitching. I assume everyone is Brad Komminsk until they prove me wrong.

Have you ever considered keeping Edgar and trading KJ, putting Edgsr at 2nd, Yunel at 1st?

By ObiWanKobe

September 12, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

ken sly:

It’s “Rilo Kiley”

By ncscoots

September 12, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

If the Braves improve the starting rotation by trading Renteria, they wouldn’t even need as much offense

Sorry, that’s a bad way to think. Unless the Twins completely give up and trade Santana to the Braves this winter, Atlanta will not get a team-changing pitcher. At best, any additions will be complementary.

Thinking that an additional starting pitcher will allow the Braves to get by with scoring 4 runs a game is a recipe for third place. Again.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Your comments about late and close bring up a very interesting point: It is a sample size issue.

Look at the guys with a lot of ABs in that situation:

Andruw 74 AB, .230 AVG/.301 OBP

McCann 60 AB, .233 AVG/.303 OBP

Thorman 44 AB, .227 AVG/.286 OBP

Andruw alone has over 10 percent of the Braves ABs in late and close situations.

It ties Bobby’s hands pretty severely. You obviously want Andruw in there because he’s one of the best defensive OF in the game, if not the best, still. And he’s been decent offensively for most of his career so you never know when he might bust out (or at least that was the thought earlier in the year).

One more thing, the Braves are actually out hitting their opponents late and close; higher AVG/OBP/SLG. They are also out hitting their opponents from innings 1-6. But they are not in the 7th inning on. Looks like they are letting their opponents back into games when it’s not close but late.

By Kentavo

September 12, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Trade Edgar (although I hate to see him go without getting a chance to see how he’d perform with Braves in the playoffs) for proven starting pitcher. Sign Mike Lamb to backup Chipper and Tex and to be main pinch hitter.

By CC Rider

September 12, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, I look at the Renteria/Escobar logjam a different way. They are both two of the best clutch/contact hitters on the team. What if, instead of trading Renteria and his salary for a Garland or other pitchers that are not #3 starters but just innings eaters. We keep them both, Escobar can be a great 2nd Baseman with more work, and instead put a trade together with Kelly Johnson and perhaps Matt Diaz to Oakland for Joe Blanton. It would be better to keep Renteria’s salary for 2 more years along with a cheap pitchers salary(Blanton who has a better potential upside), than to pickup a mediocre pitcher with little upside and a large salary. The salary hit is the same, but the defense at 2nd is better with Escobar, the potential of Blanton is better than Garland, Etc.,Brandon Jones starts in leftfield and provides better defense and probably more power and when Renteria’s contract is done if he is not playing well enough to extend or the payroll is tight, we can either move Escobar back to SS with Lillibridge at 2nd or vice versa. Plus we would have control of Blanton for 4 years instead of 2.

By Chop Chop

September 12, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave,

Mark Teixeira plays first base for the Braves.

By bobby cox is my grandpa

September 12, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, Can’t believe there’s no mention of the Man In Black in the blog today on the anniversary of his death!!!! Surely that NJ station (if it’s as good as you say) must have mentioned something! My NPR station in Louisville, KY was all over it this morning. Good bloggin’ on Escobar, agree he’s the real deal. Though we do love us some #11.

By Lew

September 12, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Anders-You criticize me on the other blog for advocating playing time for Diaz, Escobar, Kelly Johnson and Brandon Jones. You site the reason for this as being a need for more veteran players with more experience to augment the twilight careers of Chipper and Smoltz. Then you say we need to look to the future for Chipper and Smoltz’s departure. Do you realize that you are arguing at cross purposes?

The only person I advocated for playing time that has NO experience at the ML level would be Brandon Jones. I advocated platooning Johnson and Escobar or Johnson and Diaz-pretty much what is currently being done. A platoon, mind you, that has resulted in a .290+ BA for Johnson, with a high OBP, a .328 BA for Escobar and a .345 BA for Diaz. I’m not quite sure where you feel that this is a bad move. I am not too sure where the no experience part comes in either. Because they are young? Isn’t that what you say we need? Youths to cover for our aging veterans? As for veterans, Chipper and Smoltz have two potential seasons remaining on their respective contracts-so does Edgar, who I would very much like to keep. At that point in time, all of those kids are then veterans, themselves. I fail to see what the problem is. Kids have to get experience, don’t they?

Now if you examine the Braves’ problems this year, they revolve around two things 1. Not getting anything from their number five starters and 2.no bench, which led to an inordinate number of very close losses. These are the areas that need to be addressed-not a greater veteran presence. Besides, don’t the Mets and the Giants already have most of the forty something players locked up? Maybe it’s y’all that need to plan for the future-before all your Alous and Pedros and LoDucas fold up from their arthritic conditions. From what I can see, the only youth y’all have is Maine, Reyes, Wright, Milledge and Pelfrey (who has what? One win?). We could just about field a complete team of players under the age of 25 and still put on a good showing. Don’t see that with the Mutts.

By Supes

September 12, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

KC, I like the way you think…that Edgar could actually be traded for a younger CF to fill in the void after Andruw Jones leaves.

However I disagree with you about Glavine coming back, Braves need to get younger in the rotation, not older. How much do you think Glavine really has left?

I’m hopeful the Braves can go after one of the younger guys in the AL. I don’t have a list in mind yet, but someone from the A’s or the D’Rays, or even maybe someone from the White Sox’s? I don’t know, I haven’t followed anyone in the AL besides: Yankees, Red Sox, Indians and Tigers b/c that is all ESPN ever covers! All the time, always. So yeah, I don’t know much about the other AL teams, esp. Angels and A’s this year, but they seem to have good young talent, maybe they trade with the Braves.

This off-season will be critical to John Shuerholtz’s legacy as a Braves GM. He can “make” or break the team for 2008 by pulling off the right trade for the Braves. Of course the best trade, is where both teams “get what they want” and it works out for everyone.

I’m hopeful we won’t have a bunch of NY METS fans here on the blog today…posting things like “I’ve been following the blog all year but now decided to post to say this…” Well guess what…nobody cares!

I saw 2 posts from Mets fans that were OK, or “contrustive” and the rest started out OK and ended up sounding like a school yard bully who knows his days are numbered!

Paul…so it’s “our time” to shut up and take it, or whatever your post said…just what in the world makes you think to stereotype all Braves fans like that! You show you ignorance just by posting statements that sound like you’ve been abused by the Braves Team for years, and now..”Oh no, finally the METS are so great, rah, rah, rah…brake out your cheerleading outfit!” “It’s time for Braves fans to feel this or that…or what! Revenge? What do you seek in the Braves blong? Approval? Submission from the fanbase? You want the Braves fans to cry infront of you? Whallow in our sorrows? What? Cause you are not going to get it! That’s right, you won’t get that satisfaction, at least from this fan.

I support the Braves every season, through the good and bad, am I realistic about the team’s chances to win, sure, will I ever give up, stop believing in them…no. That’s what you would do…maybe that’s what you did, as a Mets fan who’s tasted nothing but LOSING for 14 years! Yeah, I remember those series, where Chipper and Brian Jordan would send your kind packing and crying and hoping and screaming for Revenge!

Braves fans, there is hope but don’t listen to Mets Trolls like Paul and others who just come here looking for the Braves fans approval of the NY Mets!

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, you could have all the fire power in the world, you need something to ignite it. I know our pitching needs is 2nd to none, but as i have said 3 or 4 times, edgar should only go if he is bringing someone like oswalt, peavy, young, someone like that, bringing someone to fill 3rd spot in a trade for edgar would be a bad move, braves have to think tim is #2 and john is #3(because of age) and need to go get a #1 and use edgar to get that #1, other than that i would consider a failure.

By DAP

September 12, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

DOB thanks again for the work you do and keeping us informed. great blog.

i agree that edgar is our best bargaining chip, and most likely he will be dealt this winter.

however, if its me, i try to do as much as i can without changing our offense at all. this means trading minor leaguers or extra bullpen arms to get a pitcher, OR just getting one via free agency. now this probably wont work, because renteria is so valuable and someone will be eying him, but, if im the GM, i try to avoid trading renteria.

i would let renteria play SS, chipper 3B, and johnson/escobar 2B. then escobar can still fill in at SS or third base whenever. i think he is valuable in that role as well. try to keep this offense together, if possible.

but in reality, here are the current braves players i dont think will be with us next year: andruw, harris, miller, woodward, thorman, prado, renteria.

LF will be a Diaz/Jones platoon, CF will be an inexpensive, short-term free agent. RF will be frenchy. 3B CHipper, SS Escobar, 2B johnson, 1B tex, Catcher McCann. lillibridge will be among the back-up infielders, pena will be back up catcher. a very young team, i think.

but dang, im gonna miss edgar.

By Chop Chop

September 12, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Okay, ncscoots. What about all the games started by those crumbums at the back end of the rotation this year? Do you honestly not believe that the Braves would have won 5-8 more games this season with a solid starter back there? Do you really think that the Braves could not acquire a pitcher considerably better than Lance Cormier, Buddy Carlyle, Jo Jo Reyes or Kyle Davies for Edgar Renteria?

Look. I know the offense is inconsistent. I also know that the starting pitching has been abominably bad after Smoltz and Hudson (and sometimes Chuck). The Braves would be better served to acquire solid starting pitching. It’s quite simple.

Since you alluded to the Braves’ inconsistency at the plate, we have to remember that the Braves’ offense has been inconsistent with Edgar Renteria in the lineup this year. Hell, it’s been inconsistent with Mark Teixeira added to it. In order to address the Braves’ inability to hit in the clutch or show patience at the plate (when patience is required), you’d probably have to blow up the whole team and start over with a new organizational philosophy. Since that ain’t happening, this lineup will just have to unlearn some bad habits and learn some better ones. Otherwise, the offense will continue to run hot and cold.

By TennesseePaul

September 12, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Bravo Escobar. Keep up the good work, and at the end of the day you’ll get a shiny new penny.

KC: I don’t know that Glavine is coming to the Braves. I’ll agree that he’d be about the only pitching on the market worth offering money to, but I don’t think he’ll come this way. And because of that, I think the extra bump in payroll will be to fill the CF void, using Renteria, whom I love and hate to see go, to acquire pitching through some complicated scheme involving hooks, sand and a couple of marshmallows shaped like peanuts.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

i would let renteria play SS, chipper 3B, and johnson/escobar 2B. then escobar can still fill in at SS or third base whenever. i think he is valuable in that role as well. try to keep this offense together, if possible.

100% agree on that.

By TennesseePaul

September 12, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

The new Rilo Kiley is impressive. Some parts remind me of Blondie. Love the album. They never let their sound get boxed into a genre.

Now the live shows are a whole ‘nother level. They’re amazing live and I can’t wait to see this album played live. He can play guitar while crawling all over the place and she’s hot, bounces all over the stage to great beats belting out great tunes… just good stuff all around.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

CC Rider,

Trading Edgar opens up the most payroll flexibility and there is a more than adequate replacement, it’s as simple as that.

By brent a.

September 12, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Escobar or Tulowitzki?

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Something from an espn.com chat today:

Chris (Orlando): Hey there Jonah who do you think will be the Braves next centerfielder and where will Andruw end up? thanks

SportsNation Jonah Keri: I think Torii Hunter’s a possibility, or maybe Coco Crisp. Hunter’s from the South, and IIRC has expressed interest in playing in Atlanta before. As for Coco, he’s signed for a very affordable $5 mil on the last year of his 3-year deal next year, he’s expendable to the Red Sox because of a great young player who’s basically Johnny Damon v2.0 in Jacoby Ellsbury, the Red Sox and Braves do have a recent track record of dealing with each other, and the Braves have a lot of good, young talent that the Red Sox crave (we’ve already seen Andy Marte change hands between the teams). Those would be my two most likely candidates right now.

By jed

September 12, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Agreed on Escobar. And yes, somebody needs to be moved for a SP. But all of this assumes that the Braves will lock up Tex to a longterm deal, and that’s a bit premature, in my view. If you can lock Tex up in the offseason, fine. Then you can trade Edgar for pitching, but if you cant sign Tex (and I dont think we will), why not trade Tex for SP and keep Edgar? Logic would say move Edgar to 3b and Chipper to 1b, but whatever…point is, if we follow the “trade Edgar” route, we may very well end up in 2009 with NEITHER Renteria nor Tex on our team.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

DOB While watching Escobar and Renteria hitting back to back I couldn’t help but notice the difference. While Renteria is a real pro who I respect he looked old following the young buck to the plate. I’ve only had a small sampling but Escobar looks like he has Soriano type power whith a much more polished skill set.

By PocorobaNaharodny

September 12, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Renteria and Escobar are both the kind of players that you need to keep around and they are both affordable. I think Escobar is a good enough athlete to move to centerfield until Renteria’s contract expires. The move from short to CF has been made by many (Robin Yount, among others). Escobar has the arm, maybe not the raw speed of Andruw (at least when he was younger) and good instincts (like Andruw) to get a good jump on balls. Give Diaz the everyday left field job and that’s a strong offense. Unfortunately, the free agent pitching crop is awful this year, so we will probably have to give up something valuable to get a good pitcher. If no good deals are out there, though, I would rather see Schuerholz try to sign Glavine and look for improvement from James, Cormier, Carlyle or others within the organization. The big long term need is to re-build our pitching through the minors. I know we don’t have anyone ready to make an impact, but I think we are going to have to make a big push to develop some young pitching from within the organization. Pitching is so overpriced now that you can’t afford to go get a good one without overpaying.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Overlord, in this day-and-age, teams don’t trade in-their-prime pitchers “like” Oswalt, Peavy and Young for 31-year-old shortstops.

ESPECIALLY not Peavy….

Regarding Glavine, as much as the NY papers (I only read the NY Times and Daily News today)seemed to indicate Glavine would either return to the Mets (probably with a renegotiated contract) or retire, I read something in Glavine’s comments yesterday that would certainly leave open the possibility of him pitching for the Braves.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Something else from that same chat:

Dj Cuse: WIll Chipper finally win the gold glove this year? He has only 8 errors and that is the league low.

SportsNation Jonah Keri: Yeah but his errors are low because his range isn’t as good as some others in the league. Monster offensive season (he might be my #1 MVP pick had he stayed healthy all year), but not an outstanding gloveman. Off the top of my head, Ryan Zimmerman would have to be right up there for NL GG at 3B, I would think/hope.

Okay, I’ll stop.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

CC Rider, your comments at 3:01 p.m. certainly make plenty of sense, too. And there might indeed be a team willing to trade for Kelly J. and Diaz and give you a pitcher. If you could do that, yes, that’s certainly a solid option. I know the Braves would like to keep Edgar if it’s possible, if it makes sense. But you HAVE to have an ever-day job for Escobar next year.

He could play 2B for another year until Edgar’s gone, sure. Then move to SS and have Lillibridge at 2B. But long-term, Escobar’s arm is wasted if he’s not on the left side of the infield. And he’s really solid at SS.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Then sign Santana…..

We are not getting what we need by trading edgar, big mistake.

DOB do you thing we should trade edgar for somebody that would only be a #3 SP? That wouldnt be smart.

Maybe trading dotel and yates and prado for somebody to fill #3 spot would be better.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Lew In a nutshell I’m saying if all you do is plug both corner outfield positions and the middle of your infield with very young players while moving Francoeur to center for the first time it will be hard to compete. MLB is a long grueling season that takes a few years for players to understand how to pace themselves. Wright went through it last year and I think Reyes is in it this year now. But to have 4 positions all trying to get through it at once is risky IMO. I think Dob”s infiled abopve is a good one, but you still need to get at least one more proven outfielder too.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

Shaun, Zimmerman’s four throwing errors in two nights (and three in one night) against the Braves, alone, should discount him from Gold Glove consideration. That was horrendous. Zimmerman is solid most nights, however. No question.

And Chipper’s good, regardless of what a few here seem to see in his defense. Not great (except for the play coming in, barehanded — great there) but good.

By worryaboutyourself

September 12, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

I never want any type of approval from a Brave fan on anything! Don’t need it, don’t want it. Look, the Braves have been dominating the East for years, and that’s over for now. So Met fans need no ones approval for their play. What you need to understand Supes and others on this blog is that Brave fans had become so arrogant and down right disrepectful of the Mets and their fans that now that the Braves are down Met fans are going to kick as much dirt on the Braves now as they can. Look, I know what it is, the Braves have won all these division tittles (1 championship) and still are not as loved and respected as the Mets are and that must drive Brave fans crazy. The Braves are nationally televised and still the Mets are more loved nationally than the Braves. Mr.Met gets national commercials, and Chief Knock-a-Homer gets the boot for being politically incorrect. It must be tough winning as much as the Braves did and still get no respect. So I understand the bitterness when people on this blog says harsh things about the Mets, it comes from wishing that the Braves were as beloved as the Mets. Even when the Mets are not winning they are still a story, but man, when they are winning its all Mets all the time. So look, Supes and the rest of you Met haters, you must have known in the back of your head that when the winning stopped it was not going to be pleasant in your blogs and in your sports pages especially if it was the Mets who started winning. The little boys who the Braves would beat up every year and take their lunch money grew up and now is taking the Braves lunch money and exposing the bullies for who they are, a bunch cry baby whiners .aka Larry Jones who will say anything negative about the Mets just because they can’t beat them now. Oh, by the way I live in Atlanta and ROOT for the Mets!!! Lets Go Mets!!!

By J.R.

September 12, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

The entire blog has quit and is now picking at the roadkill which this team has become.

The Braves either blow people out or lay down like dogs.

The Invincible One stays in the trainer’s room.

DOB, all J.R. has to say about the current state of things is I don’t give a damn about your yellow buzzards.

By Chris

September 12, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

The problem with this is (and it’s a huge problem) look at how much Escobar has played this year. That’s because this team needs a solid player to fill in when Chipper’s hurt or having to sit out and also to fill in at other positions.

The simple fact is this team needs a bump in payroll. When I said that earlier this year people laughed at me and said ha look how bad the Yankees are with their huge payroll. We see what happened there.

Fact is big payroll with J.S. and Bobby in charge of it can buy playoff births. A payroll of less than 85 million won’t do that. Sorry.

By Chris

September 12, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

The problem with this is (and it’s a huge problem) look at how much Escobar has played this year. That’s because this team needs a solid player to fill in when Chipper’s hurt or having to sit out and also to fill in at other positions.

The simple fact is this team needs a bump in payroll. When I said that earlier this year people laughed at me and said ha look how bad the Yankees are with their huge payroll. We see what happened there.

Fact is big payroll with J.S. and Bobby in charge of it can buy playoff births. A payroll of less than 85 million won’t do that. Sorry.

By Chop Chop

September 12, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Overlord,

The Braves could solve some of these problems by producing better starters in the minors. It seems like every young Braves pitcher that comes up to the bigs doesn’t have the pitches to consistently get outs. They throw 90-100 pitches in 5 innings, wear themselves out, and end up getting torched before Bobby waddles out there with the hook.

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

Off the top of my head, Ryan Zimmerman would have to be right up there for NL GG at 3B, I would think/hope.

Zimmerman might have a Gold Glove but Reggie Ball, Mike Vick, and Matt Stafford are more accurate than Zimmerman with their arm.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

DOB According to the NY papers Glavine already has $13mil in the bag as a players option based on his innings pitched this season. Do you see the Braves matching that? Do you see Glavine giving a home team discount?

Personally if the Mets win it all I see the latter. If they don’t I see him coming back to the Mets to try and help finish the job. Keep in mind he’s real tight with the Wilpon family - Especially Jeff. How’s that for conflicting playoff desires for the Braves faithful?

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Escobar’s arm is wasted if he’s not on the left side of the infield. And he’s really solid at SS.

or RF.

By TennesseePaul

September 12, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Ins’t Dotel a free agent at years end?

By 22oz

September 12, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Ah, just got done with my survey on Braves.com. It felt good to release some frustration on my least favorite things about Turner Field. Most notably: TOONER Field, doorbells, chewbacca, and DAY-O!

By Anders

September 12, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

Overlord Gnerally speaking Outfielders are infielders with bad hands. You don’t waste guys like Escobar out there.

By KC

September 12, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Supes: “Braves need to get younger in the rotation, not older. How much do you think Glavine really has left?”

Supes, to answer your question… I think he has plenty left for at least one more quality season. Look what he’s doing right now, late in the season. He’s got enough in the tank for at least one more good year.

As for the Braves’ need to get younger, I agree wholeheartedly. The Braves would LOVE to get a younger quality starter that could help them next year and beyond.

However, all indications are that in exchange for a quality starter (such as Mark Buehrle, who they pursued)… the Braves offered the same haul of young talent (probably the best collection of young talent yielded in a trade in a couple years BY ANYONE) they eventually traded for Tex.

The Braves offered a king’s ransom at the deadline, and they weren’t the only team to come up short in their bid to add a quality starter. Many teams tried and failed both last winter, and at the deadline.

I just have my doubts as to what’s available. If the Braves can get a younger quality starter… GREAT! I’m all for it! But if we can’t, I think Glavine will be a good option to help us win next year.

By ncscoots

September 12, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Chop, I’m not disputing the need for pitching, far from it. I was only taking issue with the notion that adding pitching means you can sacrifice lots of offense with no consequences.

I’m sure that the Braves can upgrade the starting pitching; what I don’t think they can do is get one of the top 10 pitchers in the game (unless there’s a Hudson-like deal lurking off the radar). Therefore, any such mid-rotation pitcher addition makes the staff better, but not dominant. They’ll still need all the offense they can muster…I only suggest that tunnel vision on the pitching needs can run you smack dab into a big tree of “not enough offense”, a noggin-buster if ever there was one.

By ken sly

September 12, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

ObiWanKobe,

Thanks (I say embarrassed).

-ks

By ncscoots

September 12, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

TPaul, re Dotel, I think that he has a player option, or a mutual option, one of the two.

By Joe Schmoe

September 12, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Most embarassing/annoying thing at Turner Field is the “everybody clap your hands” thing they do now. They’ve been doing that at Shea for a couple years now…the Mets must have been laughing at us while they were here listening to that.

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Overlord

These players are not little pieces on a board. If he is trained as a SS, why would you want to put him in an unfamiliar role? Salty at 1st…?

Proof positive is KJ at 2nd. Granted he was serviceable, but no more than that. Escobar could be a serviceable RF, but what a waste of talent.

22oz

Agree with you on Turner Field. What the hell is DAY-O? Is that there to make the latin players feel at home? If so, that’s why the Mets swept us at home. 3/4 of their roster was Latino. Some a* of a Mets fan was in my ear all game yelling stuff like “OK Jose, steal 2nd”, or “Hey Carlos, don’t strike out”. I finally just told him that if he wants to yell out at the players, speak in a language they can understand. He couldn’t figure it out. Nothing against Latinos, NY just seems to be cornering the market. Maybe why they are winning.

By kunifa

September 12, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

I hate all this “wait til next year talk!”. I want the Braves to be winners of the East. Forget about the speculation talk..As I said in late August - put a fork in them…they have NO excitement or motivation when down 4 runs - unlike the 91 92 93 etc Braves…They are have bee pure quitters and very dissappointing this year _(I know we have one several like the recent Phillie game), but overall they QUIT!

By J-School Dropout

September 12, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

DOB:

I like Edgar a lot but, if trading him would bring us a reliable, third starter, then we have to do it. Question, though, who needs a shortstop and what might they have to trade? I don’t know of any teams that are currently desperate for a shortstop who have quality pitching to spare.

By Chop Chop

September 12, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

scoots,

We need a happy medium. I just know that an offensive player (or players) will have to be moved in order to get a good starter. If Renteria happens to be the guy that goes, the reasoning behind it (as long as a good starter is acquired) will be sound. There will be consequences for the lineup if Renteria is traded, but Escobar is good enough with the bat to make up most of whatever is lost.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave Not sure if you need to go all the way to Latin America for players but JS might want to look outside of Georgia every now and then.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave i dont mean to use Yunel forever in RF, just one year until our young players including yunel mature a little more. But i get your point. Hope you get mine.

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Funny thing about Atlanta is that it is so multicultural all throughout Atlanta but when you get to the ballpark, its back to the old south with pulled pork and country music. Just kind of odd. Like a big spaceship landed.

Anybody miss Fulton County Stadium? Turner Field is nice, but the old staium had more character. As long as the Falcons weren’t earing up the field, it was good.

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Overlord

I see where you went but I consider the road you are going down a dead end road. Remember Chipper in left? Bad idea, he’s been injury prone ever since. KJ is the outfielder in the group. plug situations rarely work out well. If the player is uncomfortable, it will show on both sides of the ball.

By Thrillhouse44

September 12, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave, Fulton had character and memories. The Ted has more beer stands and the Tomahawk Team.

I miss Fulton County a lot. Really do. But Turner Field has more stuff: more bad, but more good too.

By IL-Brave-fan

September 12, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

I agree about Escobar and about trading Edgar. It just makes too much sense. I didn’t know Rilo Kiley had a new CD out. Finding that out makes reading this blog even more worthwhile.

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Does Yunel have any pitching compadres in Cuba we could extract?

Here’s a guy worth a look in the devil Rays system. Edwin Jackson. Yes he has been hammered the last couple of years but it looks like he may be turning the corner on being a very good pitcher. The fan base in Tampa, being spoiled and sour, has already written him off. Bet we could get him for a song. I believe he was a No. 1 draft pick.

By VaBravesfan

September 12, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Glavine has a player’s option for $13 mil, but I read somewhere he also has a buyout clause for $3 mil if he turns down the player’s option. Would the Braves would pay him the difference for one year just to have one more shot before Smoltz and Chipper leave/retire? Would he even be interested in playing in Atlanta? Just wondering.

By Gary

September 12, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

Man I’d hate to lose Rent but your points are well taken. We need a strong backup at 3rd with Chipper hurt all the time. I’d even like to see Andruw stay but I know that’s a long shot with the current financial situation. If Hampton finally comes back and pitches well, the Braves are in good shape without making a lot of moves but as we learned this year, you just can’t count on players staying healthy. One more great arm and we’ll be in the series next year for sure. Go Braves!

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Thrillhouse$$

Sold your soul, did you? Whattya gonna do? Can’t go backward. But hey , that Steph on the TT is pretty sweet. If they could eliminate the every half inning promotional crap, I could stand it. Can’t sit back and take it in without hearing some blowhard on a mic call the race between Coke, Diet and Sprite. Some is OK, but they are definately out for the advertising dollars and that’s too bad that they can’t see how it tarnishes the experience. They only see it in terms of money.

By CC Rider

September 12, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Shaun re:3:27 post You missed my point! If you trade Edgar and his 6 Million salary this year and his 11 million dollar salary for 2009(which by the way the Braves could refuse his option, the Red Sox would have to pay a 3 million buyout and edgar could resign with the Braves for $8 and still make as much as the option.) for an established pitcher like Garland , Vasquez, Buerhle, Etc. they are going to come with a higher salary than Edgar and are only solid innings eaters that give you a chance to win(With Possible exception of Buerlhe-he could be better but would cost more than just Edgar), but who have no upside other than what they are. But if you trade Kelly and perhaps Diaz, both who are average to below average on defense for a Joe Blanton, Marcum, Etc. the money spent is the same or less. You then have better defense in left(Brandon Jones) and at 2nd(Escobar), You have a youngf pitcher which could have a much bigger upside than Garland,Etc. and you keep the best #2 hitter we have had in a long time. SO NO IT ISN’T THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!

By Ed Glennon

September 12, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Keep the entire team except for Cormier, Villereal, Yates, Woodless, Buddy and of course The Rally Killer. Hope some pitchers from the organization will work out. There will be no quality pitchers available next year. Let us hope someone will want Villereal who will make a million next year. Let us also hope we do not get stuck with the Rally Killer if he accepts arbitration.

By kevin

September 12, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

With Mike Cameron a more than serviceable CF and #8 hitter that has ties to the atlanta are sitting in free agency, I believe the outfield for next year is pretty well already set. Cameron will only command a 4-5 mil or so deal I would think, and his defense is not really a drop from andruw at this point, and unfortunately for this year, neither is his bat.

As for Edgar, I agree that escobar is an exact duplicate, except younger and cheaper, and would make a nice line up at lead off with kelly at 2. If and this a big IF, hampton can go next year and you pick up a solid 3/4 with a renteria /reyes trade..its a hell of a team.

1-ss-escobar 2-2b-kelly 3-3b-chipper 4-1b-tex 5-rf-frenchy 6-c-mccann 7-lf-diaz/jones 8 cf-cameron/jones

sp - smoltz sp - hudson sp - hampton sp - ????? (trade for) sp - james

lr - carlisle mr - oscar mr - acosta mr - mahay mr - moylan su - gonzalez cp - soriano

lillibridge, bpena, jones, prado and Thorman off the bench.

By rammerjammer

September 12, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Will Lillibridge get a chance at CF? He played CF two years in college. Yuni has him blocked at SS.

He had a good year at Richmond, hit .287 with 28-33 SB-ATT in 87 games.

By Novice Ned

September 12, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

KC, why use Andruw’s missing ‘08 salary to pay Tex in ‘09 when you could use Hampton’s missing ‘09 salary on Tex in ‘09 and Andruw’s missing ‘08 salary on an Aaron Rowan in ‘08 and have something left to resign Diaz for ‘08? Trade Edgar for a solid pitcher, preferably one is isn’t 40 years old. And do we need to resign some relievers? Are Soriano, Mahay and Yates true free agents next year? I’d like all 3 back next season, along with Moylan, a healthy Gonzo and Acosta.

By glove51

September 12, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

If the Braves trade Renteria, which I belive they will and have been predicting since late June, bat Escobar lead off and have Kelly bat 2nd. Kelly has great patience and good bat control.

If the Braves go after Cameron for a one year stop-gap, look for them to trade Willie Harris. He isn’t a star, but yu could get pretty good value for him. That gives you an OF of Diaz, Cameron and Frenchy, with Brandon Jones and/or Blanco coming off the bench. Schaeffer had a strong year in the minors in OF, but think he would be a pretty big stretch to make it to ATL in ST 2008.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

O’Brien , agreed. Renteria is a great trading piece. Here is something to chew on. Hampton , Smoltz , Hudson , Chipper and McCann will make 53.8 million in 2008. I’ve read figures of 10-12 million in arbitration for Teixeira. Also : Mike Gonzalez , Lance Cormier , Pete Orr , Chad Paronto , Rafael Soriano , Willie Harris , Oscar Villarreal and Tyler Yates are arbitration eligible. Octavio Dotel , Ron Mahay , Julio Franco , Andruw Jones , Tanyon Sturtze and Chris Woodward are free agents. Needless to say , the Braves will have a ton of payroll and roster decision’s to make between now and spring training.

By Wayne in Utah

September 12, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

Common sense says don’t move guys around drastically as it does have an effect on their total game. KJ did an excellent job of converting from a SS/LF to a second sacker. Not great, but certainly not the biggest concern we have.

Escobar needs to be the SS. Edgar should be traded (much as I hate the prospects of doing so). I think those who would keep all 3 (both SS and KJ) are afraid of the “Chipper” factor. The Braves cannot afford to keep two top caliber SS’s. Just can’t afford that luxury.

We can solve the backup situation another way. Aybar, if he comes back, is more than capable of backing up Chipper. If he proves himself, Lillibridge could be what Escobar was this year for the Braves: a backup and fill-in where needed.

I am assuming with DOB’s statement earlier, he is going to talk about the OF situation in a later blog. I will wait to chime in when that happens.

As for teams that really need a SS and that might have pitching to spare, you have to include teams like Toronto, Chisox, Tigers, and Cardinals. Teams that might look for a SS upgrade are the Cubs, A’s, Astros, Giants, Boston, and Baltimore(if Tejada is traded).

I think that many here think we would have to get a top notch starter before trading Renteria. As much of a MVP as Edgar has been, he will not bring a top starter. He might bring someone like Marcum/McGowan, Lowry, Garland, etc. BUT, to get one of those guys, we would have to sweeten the pot.

As for Glavine. No love lost here. I personally prefer to go for a guy like Carlos Silva first. I think Glavine would definitely help, but I would like to get younger rather than older. Unless JS is setting up next year as his last hurrah, which is possible.

Would you guys want the Braves to take a flier on a FA rehab guy like Benson or Clement? Would they sign an incentive laden contract?

By glove51

September 12, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Ned: Diaz is not arbitration eligible until 2009.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Well then i hope everything is as good as you guys think it will be once edgar is gone. Im sure that will not be a smart idea.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

CHIPPER JUST HIT in the indoor cage, felt good hitting right-handed, still a little sore lefty. He’s gonna give it another day, then the off day tomorrow, and said he hopes to be ready to play Friday. Didn’t throw, and doesn’t plan to until Friday, since that’s how he iniitially hurt it. Just telling you what he said, about 15 minutes ago….

We were watching the Marlins-Nats game on satellite in clubhouse, and I swear there were not 500 people there (game in Miami). It went 12 innings, Marlins pulled it out….

Yes, Dotel’s a free agent at year’s end. And I’d be shocked if he’s back here. By the way, he threw a bullpen yesterday, felt a lot better. Threw at about 75 percent, he said (just a while ago talked to him). He’ll throw once more Friday in bullpen, then if it goes well he’ll ‘em he’s ready to pitch.

But talking to Bobby about it later, he didn’t sound too encouraged or optimistic about what to expect from a reliever who’s been out a month….

By Wayne in Utah

September 12, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

glove51: Willie Harris would bring NOTHING in trade. He is a 250 hitter that strikes out way too much for a singles hitter. He is also substandard defensively, is fast, but can’t steal bases.

Willie was a nice suprise earlier this year, but many of us were saying that he was going to return to form eventually, and he has. He should have been benched for good about 6 weeks ago.

If we want to go with a singles hitting OF, I hope we give Blanco a tryout when Richmond’s season is finished.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Coach, you can assume that Sturtze, Woodward and Dotel aren’t big decisions the Braves will have to make. I’d be very surprised if any of them are back.

And Hampton’s contract, remember, only counts for about $8 mill per year for the Braves’ accounting purposes (they spready evently their entire commitment to him over a six-year period for payroll purposes)….

ANDERS, if Glavine wants to play in Atlanta, Braves wouldn’t have to “match” his salary with Mets. It ain’t gonna come down to straight dollar-for-dollar offers. If he wants to be with his kids badly enough to finish up in Atlanta, a respectable offer from Braves would probably be enough, I’d imagine. I just don’t know if there’s so much history now in failed negotiations and last winter’s experience, if all that would weigh in his decision or whether he has any desire or the Braves have desire to make it happen.

We’ll know something soon enough. But probably not until after Mets are done with postseason.

By Kenneth Simpson

September 12, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

I agree with you. Yunel is special and should be playing every day at shortstop. He is a good hitter and a excellent at his position. I really hated to see Edgar come back to shortstop. I still think trading Salty and all those good prospects for Tex was a bad trade. Tex is good but what is the possibility of him staying in Atlanta after 2008. I say Slim and None. Salty was special too. He was a switch hitting catcher with power and could have played first base too and I think he could he would have done ok. He is going good with Texas. The braves have simply made too many stupid trades for pitchers who have arm trouble and renting players for one year. Look at the JD Drew trade. 2 good pitchers pitching for other teams now and where is JD? Bad Trade and look at the Dotel trade and the worst of all Adam LaRoche trade for another washed up sore arm pitcher. I can’t remember the braves ever making a good decent trade. I will be glad to see the season end which has already ended for the braves.

By zmoney

September 12, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

great article.

watch Yunel and you see a mirror image of Derek Jeter. From the confidence to the physical size. From the batting stance to the opposite field discipline. more importantly, from the ability to thrive and yearn for the clutch situations. All that and Escey has a better arm and range. BUILD THIS TEAM AROUND THIS KID just like the Yanks did with Jeter and watch the banners fly high. thanks DOB

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Me 2!! Now, I’m caught up.

By JRZj

September 12, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

YES! Renteria is super, but so is Escobar. This is our best bargaining chip to get a strong #3 starter — the absence of which is the #1 reason we will miss the playoffs for the second straight season.

By ned drinkle

September 12, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

I think Chris Woodward has a lot of potential. Why not trade Tex for a pitcher and give Chris a shot at first base. The guy is a professional ballplayer.

I think Pete Orr also has a lot of potential. He is a really nice person and is well-liked by his teammates. He has a lot of speed. So why not give him a shot at centerfield. he can also be the leadoff batter.

I know that Bobby Cox likes both these guys and Cox is a very good judge of baseball ability.

By Wayne in Utah

September 12, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Kenneth Simpson: I seem to remember us getting Tim Hudson for some guys that you probably couldn’t name.

Don’t give up yet on the LaRoche trade. Lillibridge and Gonzo are going to be good for a while.

Also, the one year rentals have on occasion gotten us into the playoff picture.

Besides, which pitchers have we traded away that you are dying to have back, short of Wainwright and maybe Marquis. Glavine and Mad Dog left of their own accord.

So, I am waiting on that list of top notch pitchers that are worth their salaries now, that we traded away!

By Lew

September 12, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

WorryAbout Yourself-Braves fans have become disrespectful of the Mets? First of all, maybe we should point out that the Mets haven’t done anything to deserve any respect. Y’all have won one division title. You haven’t even won it for the second year quite yet. You didn’t make it past the NLCS last year, either, leaving everyone with that look on Beltran’s face as your parting comment for the year. Even when you wrap up the division this year, what do you have? Another division title against two teams in treading water mode and two teams lucky not to lose 100 games each? Well ain’t y’all something?

Now as far as us being arrogant and talking trash-How many of us have you seen doing this on a Mets’ blog? I sure as hell never have. Any time I’ve talked down to the Mets’ fans has been simply in response to y’all coming to OUR neighborhood, talking your own crap. So ask us how much we really care that y’all feel so put down and disrespected. I bet you don’t find a whole lot of sympathy. But, oh yeah, moron, you’re on a Braves’ blog. Just what the hell did you expect? Hugs, kisses and free drinks? Yeah, that’s sure going to happen.

By glove51

September 12, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah:

Harris could get us a back-up utility player better than Woodward or Orr I’d imagine.

I said decent value; I didn’t mention a #2 or #3 (or even #4) starter. He might fetch a decent middle reliever if you found someone enoamored w/ his speed. His horrible finish in SB’s doesn’t help there, though.

I don’t want him back in 2008. He has better value than when we picked him up at least.

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

ned drinkle Yours is one of the best assessments I have read. Of course I went dormant after reading 18 - 20 posts saying the same damn thing. And there were more.

By JC FROM UT

September 12, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this

DOB: What do you think will happen with Scott Thorman? Any chance he plays a little LF. I wonder if he would be a better (ofensive) option in LF than Willie Harris. Also about Harris didn’t he sign as a non-roster invitee? If so why do people insist he would be trade bait? Wouldn’t he become a free agent at seasons end? Also in your opinion what teams are going to be in the running for Edgars services?

By june_baby

September 12, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

i agree with dob, trade renteria, send willie harris to the minors? let andrew jones go free agent. keep brandon jones in minors for 5 more years. fire terry pendleton. get rid of all the latin pitchers on ml staff. then the team will look as the majority of brave’s fans want it to look. just forget about world series, divisional titles, wild card slots. people of color helped the braves achieve these things. no more people of color-no more playoffs(or had anyone noticed). but hey that’s alright, the team doesn’t need to look like some members of the city, only like one segment of the city.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

JRZj this year we missed #3 starter, What if we miss #1 starter next year? are you sure smoltz will be able to win 15 next year? if not, he aint a #1, not sure about tim either, can go for #3 cause we will end up as we did this year.

By Glen

September 12, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

Dave,

One scenario that has intrigued me is the thought of Kelly Johnson moving to CF next year and using Yunel to replace him in the infield. I have no idea of Kelly can play centerfield, but I am curious about this. I don’t think Kelly has the ideal hands really play second any better than he has this year, and he has notbeen bad. But when you don’t have a dominant pitching staff, you need to turn every double play that is given to you. And that is the one thing Kelly has not given them defensively this year. Edgar seems solid enough to move to 2B if that is what’s best (altough I know that moving a veteran to a new position is very politically controversial in the MLB). Any idea if this is one of the plan the Braves have on the table?

By jon

September 12, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

Wrong-not enough pop in his bat. Defensively needs work.

By Stu

September 12, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t teams looking for a SS, and willing to part with starting pitching, be a lot more interested in acquiring Escobar than Renteria? Isn’t Yunel our best trading piece, if we really want to upgrade the pitching staff?

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

RACE CARD RACE CARD WHO’S GOT THE RACE CARD?

By Political Correctness

September 12, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

june baby And how many players of non-color do we have on the Hawks?

By Braves: Sloppy Seconds of Sloppy Seconds

September 12, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this

Look at the Braves. They are the sloppy seconds of sloppy seconds yet again this year. Go Mets!

By Tyler

September 12, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

Edgar for Javier Vasquez? I thought about it but then I thought about maybe going for a younger piece, maybe to San Francisco? They have Lincecum, Cain, and Lowry.

As for CF, we have many options. Free Agency provides Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowan as the best picks. Then there’s Corey Patterson and Mike Cameron. I’d much rather have Patterson as our #8 hitter and steal 40 bases. Or, we could look to the farm, and give Brandon Jones, Gregor Blanco, or Brent Lillbridge a shot.

How sick would a lineup like this look?

Pitching: Smoltz, Hudson, Lincecum/Cain, James, Cormier (Insert Hampton maybe)

KJ-2B, Escobar-SS, Chipper-3B, Teixeira-1B, Franceour-RF, McCann-C, Diaz-LF, Patterson-CF, P

My last opinion is on Teixeira. It is doubtful we will sign him in 2008 and we should think about what we could get for him. We could get what the Angels offered for him, and get Saunders, Kotchman, and Santana. That fills a few of our needs. I know he is phenominal, but he doesn’t make a winning team himself. If we can resign him, then Im all for it.

By Stu

September 12, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

Glen, I agree. If he’s able (and I don’t know if he is, but suspect he is), move KJ to CF, and save the money we’re talking about spending on a CF.

Let Yunel play 2B one more year, or 2 at the most if we pick up Edgar’s option… and then move him to short.

Yes, you’ve still got Renteria’s salary, but you’re not paying millions for a mediocre CF either.

Or, as I posted a few minutes ago, you could probably get more for Escobar than for Renteria; if so, do that deal, and let Lillibridge play 2B.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Braves must be the only team in MLB that has gone so long without a leadoff man, i think the only players never tried there have been mccan and chipper…… maybe tex will get his share before season is over. Man cant we fing somebody like otis or butler? ok i forgot about furcal, but the dance didnt last long. This is another joke here in atlanta….. be serious about your leadoff man, it is important, not a position to experiment with.

By Eugene

September 12, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

I think it is in the Braves’ best interest to keep both player. They each have demonstrated they bring an intensity to the team and to each game that players like Andrew Jones lack.

I also think it is in the team’s best interest to keep them both because over the course of an entire season you just can’t predict what will happen. At the beginning of the season I was certain management had made for the most part all the right moves. However who could anticipate all the injuries, especially to the pitching staff.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 12, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Very nice blog on Escobar!!! He reminds me, in the way he carries himself, to Jeter. Have you ever heard him say Jeter was one of his heros??? I hate Jeter, but more because he is a yankee than any real reason. I know Jeter is a winner.

I do wonder why he had to stay in the minors so long, really no reason at the age of 24, he was still in the minors, IMHO.

Oh, I still say Salty will look to be the better player in 2-3 years. He’s only 22, and as we all know, not much time in the minors. He now has 11 homers between Texas and here in 265 AB’s. More power in the AL, which seems surprising with all the off speed stuff there, but then again, he’s playing everyday.

Still glad we have Escobar though!!!

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 12, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

zmoney

Just saw your 5:39 post, honest, not stealing your thoughts! ;) Actually, I don’t see as much of a similarity at the plate as you do, but if he is anyting like Jeter offensively we will be quite glad to have him, and keep him!

I said a few months back that the power will come, he has a swing that will provide many a double, and 15-20 HR’s.

By Wayne in Utah

September 12, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute! DOB, could you get someone to take Bobby’s temperature? He has Diaz going against a righty!!

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Not saying I agree with Jonah Keri. Just posted it because it had to do with Chipper.

I agree that Chipper is not great but solid. He’s certainly better than Jeter, who gets a ton of credit for his defense, but is near the bottom in pretty much every defensive stat available.

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Nothing can stop these people. They read, at best, one post above them and then they blather away. So be it.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Prediction Braves are gonna show Maine some discipline tonight.

By DonCoburleone

September 12, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

Good article DOB… I hope you haven’t answered this question before (for fear of getting yelled at) but what is Willie Harris’ status going into next season? Will he go into arbitration or is he still in his pre-arbitration years? Or (what I’m wishing for) is he a free agent so the Braves can just cut him?

By Julia's Diet

September 12, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

3 frozen bananas

2 heaping handfuls of baby spinach

2 tbs of agave nectar

1 can of rice milk

2 tbs of flax oil or flax milk

Place ingredients in a blender and blend

Then, pour that filthy mess out and eat a SHRIMP SAMMICH washed down with some frosty rootbeer. The hell with the pooch.

By GeorgetownKid

September 12, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t Dotel a very coveted player in the trade market this year?

We traded Davies for him. Granted, Davies wouldn’t have fetched much in a trade, but he was still a talented young starter.

If Dotel isn’t brought back, we will have traded Davies for absolutely NOTHING. We have gotten more for Langerhans!!

By foretoon-cookie

September 12, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

“There are more drunkards than old doctors. That should tell you something”

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this

That play is why the braves wont get rid of renteria

By Tyler

September 12, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

If the Mets score first, bet you the Braves lose. All they need is 1.

By foretoon-cookie

September 12, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

“old drunkards”

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Hard to believe the Rangers have a better record in seotember than the braves…this team has gotta be the most underachieving team in the league

As for Esco, I love Renteria, but Esco’s ready…Love The Idea of dealing him for a #3 starter and a pinch hit specialist, finally some of you guys have caught on to getting rid off Orr and Woodard…Since we got nothing out of the Dotel Trade, It would be our luck that Davies turns into a perennial 15 game winner, shyt happens…

By Songster

September 12, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

“We ain’t wrong, we ain’t sorry, and it’ll probably happen again.” Tracy Bird

By De truth

September 12, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin Davies has about as much chance of becoming a “perennial 15 game winner” as you do of winning the Nobel prize in Astro-Physics.

By robdawg06

September 12, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you remember on a blog about a month ago I told everyone that Yunel Escobar was a future Arod and a 5-tool player. Remember me arguing about Escobar was going to be a better hitter than Kelly Johnson (career-wise) with some guy on here ? I said the very same thing about Matt Diaz should start 2 months before the rest of you realized it. You wanna argue now that I don’t know what I talk about ?

Here’s link to the steroid mess. The names of all the players should be made public. We are their employers in a sense since our monies pay their salaries ! http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Glen, I’ve heard of no discussion of moving Edgar to 2B, and certainly none of moving Kelly to CF.

By FSU Brave

September 12, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

DOB — I saw on MLB.com that STURTZE was released two weeks ago or so. What’s up with that?

By De truth

September 12, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

No, Robdawg, we don’t remember that. Should we take your word for that?

By FSU Brave

September 12, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

For reference sake, MLB.com shows Sturtze as being released on 8/21.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

Anybody remember Steve Phillips picking the Braves to win the N.L. East after the Teixeira trade ? Dear Steve , eat crow.

By De facto

September 12, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

“It is easy to ‘predict’ events that have already occurred” The Three Stooges

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

Okay, we’re getting carried away now. Escobar is not the next AROD, robdawg. Take it easy already.

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

I said the very same thing about Matt Diaz should start 2 months before the rest of you realized it.

Huh? Don’t remember you saying that like alot of us 15 months ago. But keep patting yourself on the back for being a day late and a dollar short but accusing everyone else of suffering from your perpetually tragic condition.

By Stu

September 12, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this

Escobar another Arod? Come on!

At age 20 in 600+ ab’s, Arod hit .358, with 36 HR and 54 doubles, and a .631 slg pct.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

**By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Prediction Braves are gonna show Maine some discipline tonight.**

By It's over, it's over, it's oooooover

September 12, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

I sincerely hope the Braves don’t replace Cox with the obese, slovenly Pendleton.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

Robdawg, you might be ready to call Yunel “another A-Rod,”, but I’m not, and I don’t ever think I will be, my friend. I said a future star, which I think he’ll be. But that’s a long, loooooong way to “another A-Rod.”

Why don’t you check A-Rod’s stats at 24 (Yunel’s age now).

And I’m honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but curious as to how much of your money goes to “pay their salaries”….

FSU Brave, Sturtze just had nothing left. Bad signing by the Braves, and a head-scratcher, coming on the first day of winter meetings last year, with the guaranteed $750,000 even if he never made the roster.

This for a guy coming off shoulder surgery, who hadn’t exactly dominated before the surgery.

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

**Overlord(Band of Brothers) Your name is getting so long, I’m going to have to abbreviate it. OBOB from now on. Go Bro.

By De truth

September 12, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

It’s over, etc. Next to you and your Momma(particularly your Momma), TP looks svelte.

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

Remember me arguing about Escobar was going to be a better hitter than Kelly Johnson (career-wise)

Don’t remember that. Wouldn’t matter anyway. One is in his first season. The other is in his first full season. But you want us to congratulate you for predicting that one was gonna have the best career? How about let’s let ‘em finish a season in the majors first before we start judging who had the better career? Come back to us in about 2022.

Escobar is good and I agree with DOB’s assessment above but he did hit only one more homer in AA last year than Michael Jordan did in AA in 1994 at the age of 31 after not playing baseball for 15 years.

The next arod? I think not. Let’s let him get out of Michael Jordan home run territory before we get carried away with ourselves. Calm down. Calm down, robdawg.

BTW, Arod has more homers in the last month than Yunel has in his entire professional career. or something like that.

By It's over, it's over, it's oooooover

September 12, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

I remember Teixiera saying how much he wanted to be on a “winner.” I guess that means he moves on as soon as he can.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Paladin OBOB its ok and overlord is ok. GOOOOOOOO braves!!!!!!!!!!

Lets pick up a game!!!!!!!!!!

By It's over, it's over, it's oooooover

September 12, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

de-truff, sorry if I offended your fatas*. If you can’t pull your snout out of a trough, you can’t tell other people what to do (IE LEAD). Have another 3000 cals on me.

I know who both my parents were, do you? I doubt it.

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

Marlon Bleepin’ Anderson

By Coach is a negative a-hole

September 12, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

What’s in a name? Everything!

By Lew

September 12, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

DOB-The question of how much any of us pay on Braves’ salaries-Isn’t it a bit like sales tax? It’s only a few pennies, but those pennies add up. I know I at least paid for a couple hours of someone’s season. Can I choose to have paid for a couple of Chipper’s hits?

By journalist jimmy smith

September 12, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

this journalist advocated bringing up the whistling infielder much earlier. jimmy smith remembers dob writing that the braves were annoyed by the whistle and were insisting that yunel stop whistling. yunel was forced to eat saltine crackers before taking the field. it was a cruel and unusual punishment. if the braves think the whistle is unsavory why not take a stand against nose-picking? and, are there any nose-picking ballplayers on this team? jimmy smith would bet on orr or woodward.

By Lew

September 12, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

DOB-I know Grinch paid for a couple of Andruw’s GIDP, too.

By De truth

September 12, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this

It’s over, etc. It shouldn’t be hard to remember your parents. They were siblings.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

I hear ya, Lew. And there’s NO QUESTION the game is obviously, and ultimately, nothing without the fans. No question about that, at all.

I just don’t hear most fans being so presumptive as to say that the names in a drug investigation should be revealed because “we” (fans) are their employers.

Now, if he’s a season-ticket holder or his company gives millions of advertising dollars or pays billions in broadcast fees to MLB….

But again, just so we’re clear, I don’t for a second downplay the importance of the fan in this whole enterprise of baseball and pro sports in general. He or she is absolutely essential, for obvious reasons. Much more so than us in the media are, for sure.

And I do believe that fans have a right to ask who the cheaters are. Not as “employers,” but just as fans of a team and a sport. They should know, and a lot of folks are trying to find out those names so they will know.

By beachcomber

September 12, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

DOB - Just had a chance to read your latest blog. Thanks for saying what a lot of us were saying when we saw this kid down here this spring. He has the potential to be the face of the franchise ala Reyes and Rollins.

Like you, love Edgar but we need a third stud in the rotation to play in October ‘08.

By "Fan"

September 12, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

If we get into paying for Andruw’s GIDP, we are talking about High finance!

By Braves20

September 12, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

Wow, our clean-up hitter struck out with the tying run on base!

Like that’s never happened in the past month!

By Tyler

September 12, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

We only have 3 hits, just to let you all know. This is sort of pathetic.

By Salty

September 12, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

I’m across the Hudson in NJ tonight watching the Mets feed. Just heard mention of the Mets record when their pitchers have a quality start: 61-19 Yikes, on two counts:First the record, but second, who saw that coming with the rotation they pulled together? And, naturally, it does speak to their BP’s work.

DO’B Very frank blog tonight…knowing your history with Renteria, that had to be tough. Kudos nonetheless. At least the weather’s pleasant up this way…Fall’s on the way.

By ncscoots

September 12, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

My apologies for “tooting my Escobar horn” earlier today. I had no idea that might lead to “I knew he was A-Rod reborn” and the like. My bad all the way, mea culpa to the blog, LOL.

BTW: You wanna argue now that I don’t know what I talk about?

You’re right. There’s no argument.

By FSU Brave

September 12, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

It looks like Scherholz, as much as I like him, has lost a bit of his magic — perhaps because some of his best asst’s have been gotten away by other teams?

Sturtze - backfire, waste of $$$ Redman - backfire, waste of $$$ Gonzales - injury — future payoff? Dotel - Repeat of Danys Baez from last year

By The Grinch

September 12, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

Howdy, all. Salty, you’re watching the Mets’ feed? What do Mets eat? Does feeding together help them bond?

Smoltz should sue for lack of support. They said a little while ago Smoltz has given up three or less in 25 starts this year. 13 wins? That’s disgusting.

By Jared

September 12, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox needs to do us all a favor and retire. He has done an absolutely pathetic job of managing the team this year. He has no clue how to use his bullpen (Bringing in a lefty to face Mildege in his latest screw up) and his teams never play small ball. In addition he continues to keep our best hitter (Matt Diaz) on the bench while we all suffer through 3 hours of watching the biggest waste of talent in major league baseball history strike out 5 times a game. There is absolutely no reason for this team to be this bad

By De facto

September 12, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

Scoots We forgive you. :>) And great line.

By De truth

September 12, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

Grinch “Salty” misspoke. Muts don’t feed. They graze.

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

here we go situational hitting in a close game lets watch us phyuck it up…this offense is just straight baffling…

Grinch, Gotta give a Shout Out! have seen ya in a grip!

By KC

September 12, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Renteria and Kelly Johnson

to LAA for… Chone Figgins

What do ya’ll think?

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Gosh darnit. I gave cracking on Robdawg 3 swings and a miss and that son of a sea cook Scoots comes in with his brevity is the soul of wit sh!t and hits a homer out of the park. b*******.

FRENCHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UGA BRAVE OR BRAVES DAVE, WAS THAT A BIG ENOUGH OF A HIT FOR YOU FROM FRENCHY?!?!?!?!?!?

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

2 out delivery for those that say Jeff is nothing near a team leader…….

By KC

September 12, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Andruw Jones struck out???? WOW!!! He’s hard to fan.

By andruw

September 12, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Shucks! I get hit next time.

It’s ok.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

This is the 1st time all season that AJ did not KKKKK all by himself, the ump gave him a hand.

By chipper

September 12, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

uh… did somethin’ happen?

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Atta boy Frenchy! Bout time one of you guys prove me wrong….! Same ol A. Jones, gets relly old…And At da same time Philly fans want him up there if Rowand leaves, C how dat goes…

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

Aggghhh Damnit! Here we go Time for da Blow-pen to blow da game like a golfball

It might be time to get violent with the remote if the blow-pen blows it again…

By Jared

September 12, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Good old Bobby strikes again. Lets take Mccann out and put to rookies in. Frickin Brilliant

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

I always wondered this. Frenchy has a great arm and was a great football star. But he played wide receiver and defensive back. I always wondered, well, then who the hell played quarterback? Guess it was Sammons. Must have a great arm if Frenchy had to play wide receiver because of him.

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

Andruw Jones struck out swinging to end the inning. Now, where have I heard that before? Bye bye Druw. Take that act somewhere else.

By Fan Man

September 12, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

I know this is going to get a lot of guffaws, but I think Andrew should get his eyes checked. He’s at the age where one’s vision begins to change albeit so slowly that it is hardly noticable for most of us in day to day living. But AJ has been off on his swing just a bit all season that I think it may be his sight and he might not even realize it.

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

Here goes the part where da mutts have owned our arses all season,when it comes to the little thangs we can’t hang, not to mention my blowpen, Shyt! just threw the Remote after the Blowpen did it again…

Season Over, Go Braves in 08!

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

*Renteria and Kelly Johnson

to LAA for… Chone Figgins

What do ya’ll think?*

KC, I think you have one hilarious sense of humor.

By Jared

September 12, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Good old Bobby stikes again. Takes Mccann out then puts a frickin rookie catcher and pitcher in. Fire his sorry A$$ tommorrow. Why would you not walk Shawn frickin Green and set up the double play??? Frickin Brilliant.

By mr baseball

September 12, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

Does Chance the Manager know that you can intentionally walk batters not named Barry Bonds? Apparently not. Another 1-run loss courtesy of the master strategist in the dugout.

By KC

September 12, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

The Braves have plenty of offense, but I have to admit… watching the Mets REALLY makes me pine for some speed. It really does help to be able to manufacture runs.

Right now, I would give my left nut to see the Braves pick up a guy like Chone Figgins (or… I won’t mention his name, but his initials are CC) this winter.

It would be ideal if the Braves could get a speedy leadoff hitter who also happens to play CF… but either way, I’d just like to see a legit base-stealer in this lineup… even if we have to make room for him somewhere else.

By Tyler

September 12, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

Look what happens, we make a nice comeback, and whaddya know, we give the lead right back.

By fastasballs

September 12, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

LOL. I see La Duca hit into the double play anyway, too bad Cox didn’t walk Green or it may have meant something. Does Cox think Green is going to ground the ball right at someone? Yet another glaring example of why Cox is a weak manager when it comes to strategic decisions.

By pete orr

September 12, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Hey ma: I got my uniform dirty!

By De truth

September 12, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, you’re a idiot.

By De facto

September 12, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Chone Figgins? Wasn’t he part of that Cheech and Chone act?

By Andruw

September 12, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Big Mac Attacks cause cataracts.

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Well D.O.B. Another 1-run loss, 5 effing hits, come on!!! Game Over!

Dat was a bullish call blue, Come on KJ run him over or something…Shyt!

By Jeb

September 12, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

How many innings have we watched Andruw Jones KILL this year??????? TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Many!!!! That is the REAL story of this season!! (Next to starting pitchers 3-5)

By brent a.

September 12, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

1 blow-out win and 2 close losses.

By the way, I am become increasingly convinced that Joe Simpson is not a fan of Bobby Cox baseball.

Tonight, when talking about the Mets’ post-season chances, Simpson was saying that if Randolph will cut Reyes loose in the post-season, then the Mets have a great chance, blah, blah.

He went on to say that the teams that have success in the post-season, are the teams that do the little things, and then said that you can’t count on being able to hit a 3-run homer every other inning when facing the other team’s aces.

Joe, please have this conversation with #6, and let us know how it goes.

By De truth

September 12, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

It’s over, etc. You’re an idiot for jackaling my name and you are also a filthy little cockroach. Now eat the bait and go back and kill the rest of the colony.

By Jim Valvano

September 12, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

Magic Number for 2008 is 163!

Don’t Give Up! Don’t Ever Give Up!

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

Man KC I’ve been saying that all season, bout the mutts speed and being able to manufacture runs, that 3-run hr. crap this offense tries to build itself around doesn’t cut it in close games…

I tell ya Reyes, Wright, Blow-Tran, and Oliver Perez have been Braves killas for the last 2 years, gotta give credit where its due…Nuff Respect…

By KC

September 12, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Well, THAT’S ALL FOLKS. That ought to do it for the Braves in 07.

I know, I know… it was probably already over. But there was the slightest of chances if the Braves could win tonight and go on a run against the Nats and Marlins coming up. But it didn’t happen. Oh well… R.I.P. 07 Braves.

I can’t believe how anxious I am to see Andruw leave. He’s done all he possibly can to keep us from shedding a tear when he leaves, hasn’t he?!

If at all possible, I think JS should (and will) try to find a CF this winter who can lead off. Ryan Freel would be a perfect fit. I don’t think the Reds would be interested in Renteria, but a 3-way trade in which we give up Renteria and a prospect could get it done.

By Tyler

September 12, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Proposed Trade:

Teixeira to LAA for Casey Kotchman, Saunders, and Weaver/Santana. Kotchman fills 1B and 4-hole (.294 BA, 35 2B). Saunders fills the 4 spot in the rotation. Weaver would fill the 3, or Santana the 5 possibly. James could be used as a starter or trade bait. Renteria could be traded to Giants for Lincecum/Cain.

Point is, I think we should be builing this team around pitching. Pitching gets the job done, and we can’t get it done. Our old arms won’t get it done next year either. Can’t rely on Hampton, and Smoltz’s arm has to give eventually. We need to get some of the following: Lincecum, Cain, Lowry, Saunders, Santana, or Weaver.

By Curt

September 12, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

DOB

Since we are talking about young stars in some of the last few blogs, what do you think will happen with Francoeur’s contract situation, will we sign him to a long term deal like McCann? Or will he go through arbitration again? What do you think they will do about Kelly and Yunel?

By Deep-Sixed

September 12, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

Another game and season deep-sixed by number six.

By KC

September 12, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: You don’t think KJ and Renteria (who will be a free agent at the end of next season) would be a fair swap for one of the best leadoff men in baseball?

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

As Groucho said, “I’ve had a wonderful evening, but this wasn’t it”. G’nite.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 12, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Game over, drive home safely. Phillies get hammered at home. Mets on their way to the playoffs. Time for brave fans to wonder what went wrong in 2007 and tell us(Again) how great the braves are gonna be in 2008.

By The Grinch

September 12, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

De Truth, it’s their female fans that graze.

T’hawkin, whassup? I been busy doin’ the same thing you have (though probably less of it). Hadn’t been to school in a while; it’s kickin’ my behind.

By Tyler

September 12, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Scratch the Renteria for Lincecum trade. More like Renteria and Chuck James for Lincecum/Cain and Rajai Davis?

Ill keep dreaming.

By Darren

September 12, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Good article DOB. I agree with you 100%.

I personally think they should try and trade Edgar back to the St. Louis Cardinals (Pujols and LaRussa love him and Eckstein won’t be back.) for Adam Wainwright.

Wainwright is young, talented and cheap. We can make up for including him in the J.D. Drew deal. Ask for a young minor league arm in the deal as well. Don’t pay for any of Edgars salary.

Then you could use the money saved to try and sign a mid level starting pitcher or could use the extra money to try and re sign Andruw, if he is willing to sign at a decent price considering his down year. I’d go for a 3 to 5 year deal at 15 mil per.

But I really like Wainwright and hope that John will at least explore that trade.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

3 comments:

1. braves can only lose 1 more games rest of the way.

2. Im happy reading more and more people finally accepting Cox is such an empty head……. There are not many soldiers out there that are loyal to all his stupid moves.

3. AJ has been the worst story in this team by far, not only of how bad he has played but because he is the only one cox puts out there no matter what, all others are either gone or benched, or sent down, but AJ presence for so long has driven many of us (lots of us) to just hate his presence even more on days like today.

We are 1 loss away from humiliation for the 2nd straight season. Guess this is not what front office had in mind in spring since they didnt know back then that hampton and gonzo were going to be hurt and the AJ was gonna play like an AA player. They expected more from kyle and james.

Too many unpleasent surprises yet, this team is so good in other aspects that somehow they are still alive, almost dead but alive.

Good luck rest of the season, we can still do it, have played good baseball for the last 7 games, good enough baseball to be 7-0, instead a weak 4-3.

1 Loss against the phillies is all the breathing room. So lets do it.

By De truth

September 12, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

DOB someone has jackaled my name! Please do something about it!

By KC

September 12, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

Tyler: Here’s the LAA trade I’d like to see (though it’ll never happen):

Texeira, Renteria, Kelly Johnson, Villarreal, Ascanio

for

Kelvin Escobar, Figgins, Kotchman

By Tomahawkin

September 12, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

School’s kicking my arse as well, gotta go cook dinner be back…

Long trip to D.C. I’d Imagine, I know D.O.B. isn’t looking foward to going to RFK, Good game goin on at the Juicebox in houston…Houston is well out of but they play like they aren’t at least…

BTW Washington isn’t a pushover, they’re gonna give us hell…especially with the back end of the rotation coming up…

By deewill23

September 12, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Brent Lillibridge is way better talent than Yunel Escobar.

By Tyler

September 12, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

KC: I see what you mean. However, they don’t need a SS, so you can basically take Renteria out. I would be very happy getting Saunders. He’s a good LHP and very young. Proven for a youngster. Figgins would be ideal. I talked about him about 2 years ago but he was very inconsistent then.

Think we could get Escobar and Kotchman in a deal for Teixeira?

Actually, what does everyone think we could get for Tex from anyone?

By gotigers72

September 12, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

I hate the thought of trading Edgar. REALLY hate it. But I agree with you DOB about Yunel. A star in the making. I still would keep Edgar another year unless they can get an offer for a strong starting pitcher [not necessarily an ace]. And that’s all I would trade him for. Nothing beside a STRONG starting pitcher. No Arroyo, Josh Towers or any of the other stiffs with ERAs over 4 that are mentioned on here frequently.

As to your mention of one of the main reasons for the Braves recent poor play is mediocre to bad clutch hitting. Boy is that on the money. Andruw is certainly in the spotlight there. He came up after Francoeur tonight with a chance to put the Braves ahead. Runner on 3rd. What’s he do? Strikes out. I don’t see how it can be justified to play him every night with that rally killing bat. When’s the last time he had an RBI of any consequence? And he continues to make the same stupid mistakes due to the same bad habits. The excuse for playing him because he saves as many runs with his defense as he could generate with his bat is pure unadulterated BS. I hope he’s gone, ‘cause if he’s not BC will have him hitting 4th at the start of the year. What’s the action on the over/under for his BA being over/under .220 when the year ends. I’ll put my dough on under. I would have guessed 2 of the 3 worst mediocre to bad clutch hitters. I would never have guessed McCann, but Andruw and Harris are no brainers.

So DOB, you don’t think Dotel will be back as a Brave next year? That means we gave away Davies. I thought that was a bad trade when it was made, and said so on here. I was certainly willing to part with Davies, but not for Dotel. He’s been going downhill, and despite the fact he had 11 saves with the Royals, his ERA was in the stratosphere. And it’s over 8 since he came to the Braves. YIKES!

You are right about Sturtze. Not a good move to sign him, even at $750,000. He has never been a ML pitcher. His career ERA is over 5. Why would you want a pitcher with an ERA over 5? Redman, Sturtze, any more ragarms out there that need a job, come to Braves training camp next spring. This year was a freakin’ disaster for JS in the free agent department. The bench was the worst in the majors. Why think somebody like Woodward that hit .215 last year is suddenly gonna see the light and start raking? The fact that he can play several positions is a p**s poor excuse for him being on a ML team.

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

KC, love ya man but…….

Figgins is good but Figgins is also 29, not a good age to start picking up speedy guys. What position does he play?

Figgins is having a career year and he is still not having a better year than either Renteria or KJ and you wanna trade Edgar & KJ for Figgins?

Figgins has an OPS+ of 132, KJ and Edgar both have an OPS+ of 125. Figgins’ OBP is .406. KJ’s OBP is .385, Edgar’s is .386. KJ’s SLG is .475, Edgar’s is .476, Figgins’ is .454.

I would not trade KJ straight up for Figgins and I would not trade Renteria straight up for Figgins. Never mind trading both of them for Figgins.

I would love a Figgins type player but I’m not trading two players in the top 5 in OPS in the majors at second and short for a guy with no position. Just not gonna do that.

By The Grinch

September 12, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I had the same reaction. Sorry, KC; you’re my boy but you need to lay off the chronic. :-) Now Kelvim Escobar we could use, but no way they’re giving him up for what we could afford.

T’hawk; go easy on them ramen noodles, man; the system can only take them so many years. Take it from a pro.

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Texeira, Renteria, Kelly Johnson, Villarreal, Ascanio for Kelvin Escobar, Figgins, Kotchman

KC, no offense man but what is going on right now. You would trade Tex, KJ, Edgar (3 guys in the top 5 in OPS in the majors at their positions) with a quality long guy, a quality young reliever for a decent but disappointing slap hitting first baseman like Kotchman who ain’t even as good as Laroche, slap hitting man with no position Figgins, and up and down Kelvim Escobar who will be 32 next year? HUH?!?!?!?

That is a terrible trade. Will never happen because Sir John should be taken out back and shot to death if he even dreamed of making that horrific trade.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

KC

What would drive you to make a proposal like that???

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

How ‘bout this telling stat: Since July 17, the Braves are 8-19 in games decided by one or two runs.

Yikes.

Just win four more of those games, go 12-15 in those games in that stretch, and you’re…. Oh, well. Opportunities lost. That kind of season.

Then there’s this one: Smoltz is 4-3 in his last 13 games despite 12 quality starts in that span, including seven in which he yielded two earned runs or fewer. In six of those 13 games, the Braves scored one run while he was in.

By KC

September 12, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

Tyler: Their SS, Orlando Cabrera is very capable of playing 3B.

Braveheart: Figgins is a natural second-baseman. He’s been playing 3B for the most part this year… but if KJ were a part of such a deal, Figgins could be plugged in at 2B.

Because of Escobar, Renteria is not necessary and is likely to be traded anyway. There’s no way the Braves are going to pay 10 million-plus per year to keep Renteria beyond next season when they’ve got Escobar.

I love Renteria. No need to show me stats on him because they’re irrelevant now. Renteria’s greatest value to this team now is his trade value.

As for KJ… I love the kid. He’s a very good natural hitter, and is becoming a good second-baseman. But it really would be tremendous to add speed to this lineup.

Chone Figgins, over the past 2 season stole 114 bases and scored 206 runs. This year he’s been incredible despite missing some time. He’s hit .295 since the beginning of 2005 to present.

And you’re trying to make 29 sound old? Can you show me some numbers to suggest a huge dropoff in foot speed at 29 or 30? Because I’m not familiar with any such numbers. Seems like most the true base stealers I can think of didn’t lose anything until well into their 30’s.

We need speed. Watching the Mets manufacture these runs tonight made me sick, because we can’t do that. That needs to change.

Ryan Freel would be another good option if we could get him. In fact he’d be a perfect fit since he’s a CF and doesn’t make all-star money yet.

By j p sartre

September 12, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

Mes amis…here is the lineup that I would like to see:

1. Nausea, 2B

2. Despair, SS

3. Ennui, 3B

4. Angst, 1B

5. Absurdity, C

6. Being, RF

7. Nothingness, CF

8. Anguish, LF

9. Annihilation, P

Bobby Cox could manage this group very well. Don’t you think?

By Dick Cheney

September 12, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Here’s the trade I would like to see:

Freedom for Security.

Security. Awesome.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

gotigers, they traded Davies for a guy (Dotel) they thought would be a setup man/closer option for a playoff drive. I never particularly liked Dotel’s numbers this year, but they liked the saves, closer experience, etc.

As for Davies — come on, man. Until he shows something on any kind of consistent basis, you really going to lose sleep over that? How many years, how many chances, were you going to give him (he was here three years, struggled for the most part in all of them, and yes, I know he was injured part of the time).

He’s been as inconsistent for the Royals as he was for the Braves. K.C. optioned him to Triple-A with a month to go (since returned).

By latetofool

September 12, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

David,

I’m a Mets fan, but I wanted to let you know that I believe you are the finest baseball beat writer in the country. I don’t see anyone else who works as hard, writes so much (which I appreciate as a former NY Daily News and NY Post reporter) and engages with your readers so easily and well.

I’ll be honest I used to come here to listen to Braves fans wring their hands over playoff failures but over time its your remarkable insight and commentary made me a regular reader. It’s clear you love your job. Look forward to reading you for years to come. Thank you.

By KC

September 12, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: “Kelvim Escobar who will be 32 next year?”

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph (as my grandmother would say)… I’m 30 years old. Sounds like I should start making funeral arrangements to talk to you.

We’re in an age when quality pitchers are playing effectively well into their 40’s, and you want to devalue an excellent starter like Escobar because he’s 32??!! Huh?

The way I see it, I’d trade Tex straight up for Escobar.

The Braves tried to give all that young talent (that they eventually gave for Tex) for a pitcher at the deadline, but couldn’t pull off a deal. So trading Tex for a top-of-rotation starter is essentially doing what they wanted to at the deadline anyway.

so if you look at Tex for Escobar… the rest of that trade I mentioned is essentially:

KJ, Renteria (who’s on his way out the door anyway)… for Figgins (one of the best leadoff men in the game), and Kotchman.

With our throwing in a couple of decent relief arms to grease the skids.

Keep in mind that we’d be giving them 2 stars that will be free agents at the end of the 08 season, in exchange for 2 stars that have multiple years remaining on their contracts.

Yes, I would do that trade.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 13, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this

KC,

Chone Figgins makes 3.5 Mil, but after this year, won’t he be due for a big raise? Or is he under contract??? Ryan Freel would be a good choice, a high energy guy, who plays all out.

By mr baseball

September 13, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

The next realistic and intelligent proposed trade that is floated on this blog will be the first. Renteria for Wainwright? Renteria & K. Johnson for Figgins? Tex for K. Escobar? This blog has quickly degenerated into Star Trek territory with all the absurd fantasy deals being “brainstormed.” How about let’s doing something really constructive and informative and argue the merits of Kirk vs. Picard.

Next person to propose a trade that (a) could actually happen, and (b) makes a semblance of sense for BOTH teams, earns the official designation of Homeboy in Cyberspace. Judges are standing by to make the official call.

By PrincetonBrave

September 13, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

HA HA, I love Sartre’s Lineup.

Nothingness batting 7th and playing CF, coincidence?

By Worryaboutyourself

September 13, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

I never want any type of approval from a Brave fan on anything! Don’t need it, don’t want it. Look, the Braves have been dominating the East for years, and that’s over for now. So Met fans need no ones approval for their play. What you need to understand Supes and others on this blog is that Brave fans had become so arrogant and down right disrepectful of the Mets and their fans that now that the Braves are down Met fans are going to kick as much dirt on the Braves now as they can. Look, I know what it is, the Braves have won all these division tittles (1 championship) and still are not as loved and respected as the Mets are and that must drive Brave fans crazy. The Braves are nationally televised and still the Mets are more loved nationally than the Braves. Mr.Met gets national commercials, and Chief Knock-a-Homer gets the boot for being politically incorrect. It must be tough winning as much as the Braves did and still get no respect. So I understand the bitterness when people on this blog says harsh things about the Mets, it comes from wishing that the Braves were as beloved as the Mets. Even when the Mets are not winning they are still a story, but man, when they are winning its all Mets all the time. So look, Supes and the rest of you Met haters, you must have known in the back of your head that when the winning stopped it was not going to be pleasant in your blogs and in your sports pages especially if it was the Mets who started winning. The little boys who the Braves would beat up every year and take their lunch money grew up and now is taking the Braves lunch money and exposing the bullies for who they are, a bunch cry baby whiners .aka Larry Jones who will say anything negative about the Mets just because they can’t beat them now. Oh, by the way I live in Atlanta and ROOT for the Mets!!! Lets Go Mets!!! Good game tonight by the way.

By KC

September 13, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

Berigan: Figgins will make 4.8 mill next year.

Also, I do believe Figgins has played a fair amount of center field in his career.

Neither here nor there… just making conversation. Figgins won’t be a Brave. Freel wouldn’t surprise me though if the Braves could find a 3rd party that wants Renteria and would send a quality young player to Cinci.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 13, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this

Kirk, clearly.

By Steve Phillips is a complete MORON

September 13, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

Fired Ex-GM , Can’t pick the right suit for a nationally televised game much less the right team , Works for the (E)specially (S)tupid (P)eople (N)etwork.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 13, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

Mr Baseball,

Well, come on man, give us a trade that you think works for both teams then!

By uga-brave

September 13, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

thought it was odd we didnt walk green. that guy has flat out owned us since his dodger days.

1 win since the all star break when we score less than 5 runs, that number is mind numbing.

as for off season trades i would love to see us make a run at BRANDON PHIILIPS, gonna be a thirty- thirty guy this year plus he is local.

plug him in at leadoff and it could be marquis grissom redux. any thoughts DOB?

By uga-brave

September 13, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

dont know brandon phillips contract situation but believe he is not a finacial stretch. only problem is he has a brave like .oba .333. still think he is a viable option. if andruw and renteria both leave we must find some power to replace those 40 hrs that are leaving.

By jed

September 13, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

Does anyone really believe the Braves are going to be able to sign a longterm deal with Teixiera?

I didnt think so.

So, why not hold onto Renteria longterm, move him to 1b or 3b, let Escobar move into SS, and trade Teixeira for a starter this offseason?

By Hai Kurate

September 13, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

Chirp… chirp… chirp… chirp… chirp

This blog is a lonesome site

Now that hope is gone.

By mr baseball

September 13, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

Berigan: The most likely Brave with market value who might be traded is obviously Renteria. Here are the teams that need a SS and might be interested in him:

White Sox

Tigers

Athletics (may not be able to afford him)

Blue Jays

Cubs

Cards

You would assume the Braves would want a starting pitcher in return. On the other hand, the Braves used a huge chunk of their farm system to trade for Tex, so maybe they’d take a CF in return.

Not sure if the White Sox would give up Garland or Vazquez in a deal. Both may be out of Braves’ price range. Don’t think the Braves would want Podsednik.

The Tigers’ Robertson probably isn’t worth Edgar, so that probably rules them out.

The A’s typically trade vets for youth, and are unlikely to pursue somebody like Edgar. They have some pitchers that might be a fit, but after the Hudson fiasco, might not be too motivated to trade with the Braves.

Other than Burnett, don’t see a fit with the Blue Jays, and his health and salary make him a dubious acquisition.

No real matches with either the Cubs or Cards.

There is probably something out there, but right now I don’t see it. A lot depends on the status of some free agents, which could impact potential deals. It’s a little early to start roster speculation for next season, but given that this year is shot for the Braves, I understand the interest in ‘08. The proposed trades provide a diversion, but some here seem to take them a little seriously. Oh, well. That’s the best I could come up with.

By uga-brave

September 13, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

braveheart,

that was a very good at bat by francouer especialy considering it was a two strike count.

francouer gets by on exceptional athletic ability. his mechanics at the plate are very unorthodox. never seen a great hitter that hits off his front foot. if he ever learns to keep his hands quiet and stay back he will probably have a monster year.

the guy has never failed at anything and i hope that he continues to develop.

my only question is do you see him becoming a 3 or 4 hitter? if so the power better come soon.

as for tonight 5 stinkin singles all night. does anyone else cringe when someone like reyes, rollins, beltran, or even furcal lead off the eighth or ninth in a tie game. we just dont have the ability to turn a walk or a single into a double, heck for that matter we cant even bunt a guy into scoring position. find a table setter and a starter in the hot stove, for the sake of all our remaining sanity.

By GT

September 13, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this

O’Brien is probably correct about Renteria being the biggest trading chip. But the reason why is not because of Escobar. Its because the already played their biggest chip when the time was wrong. Homeboy Upstairs already wasted his best hand (Saltalamacchia) at a time when the pot wasn’t large enough (July 31). Instead of keeping holding his best cards until the time was right, Schureholz got impatient and traded a switchhitting catcher-firstbaseman, for the one thing the Braves needed least: another switchhitting firstbaseman (who is older, makes more money, and will likely be gone after next season). But the icing on that slice of cake, is all the pitchers he had to throw in to get the deal done. Who is left pitching in our farm system?

If the best “prospects” we have to offer are Carlyle, JoJo, Cormier, Lerew and James, that is about a strong a statement as any the Braves will be sub-mediocre for many years. Gravity may not carry as much weight as this numbing reality.

How can this organization expecting anything from Hampton next year? I’m perfectly serious: the next person who says our rotation will get better with the inclusion of Hampton, please consider that the odds of getting struck by lighting and hit by a meteor at the same time is statistically more probable than Hampton putting up a winning record next year. The guy was already comfortably mediocre when wearing a Braves uniform. What is it about spending the past two years on the bench that will suddenly allow him to channel the spirit of Sandy Koufax?

This organization has so many problems, it boggles the mind. The only difference between this year and last year, was some career type seasons from most of the lineup (Andruw Jones excluded), that amounts for about a six game difference in the overall record, and helped mask the seismic problems with the pitching staff.

The Braves are about to embark on an indefinite Remember-th-80s adventure.

By uga-brave

September 13, 2007 1:37 AM | Link to this

GT,

great post agree with just about everything you said, but the braves have not developed a dominant pitcher sans wainwright for a long time.

gotta believe when AOL cut their scouting budget 6 years ago has a lot to do with it.

braves got by on smoke and mirrors in 04 and 05. throw in some bad trades since then and the hangover could last a while.

the braves are in some sort of transition if you can call it that. if the braves struggle early next year there will be a fire sale.

By bruce

September 13, 2007 1:45 AM | Link to this

Dave, I was in the stands these last three nights at Shea, it was fun to watch the grumbling crowd leave early Tuesday night and hear the moans Wednesday night, got lots more jeering at my Braves jersey/T-shirts and cap Monday than any other night.

Last year we talked about the number of blown saves before the all-star break and how much better it would have been if we had a closer (wickman) earlier in the year. I have not looked up how many saves we’ve blown this year that make up the number of one-run losses, but it seems more like we came up one short (games that did not get to save situations) more often than we blew saves. (And our GM really did try to keep us with a closer this year to avoid a repeat, so we have to admire and commend that effort, despite the injuries and diminished performance) So that would make me somehow conclude that last year was better than this year on the close games, even though I have been more hopeful this year than last probably because June was so bad and discouraging last year.

Anyway, seems like a huge number of teams basically play 500 ball and the difference between them and the leaders is really pretty small… clutch hits and saves. (While the difference between the bottom teams and the 500 teams seems greater to me without any analysis, just impression of overall competence.

If Andruw Jones had been Andruw Jones this year (hitting), which we fully expected in advance, that might probably would have made the wild card difference and if we were leading the wild card right now instead of hoping, our overall outlook and game face would be totally different. I know close only counts elsewhere, but we really have been close. Thanks for keeping it interesting with your insights. Bruce

By uga-brave

September 13, 2007 2:00 AM | Link to this

hard to believe a guy with a career .500 slugging percentage has 9 extra base hits since july. either andruw is hurt or he let free agency get to him. well then again he might need glasses, seriously. i dont think he can pick up the spin on the ball. he has always had some terrible at bats during his career but this is now beyond that. its real hard to believe that this is how his career is going to end.

By AZBravoFan

September 13, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this

I know the Braves have had some serious pitching problems this year, but I’ve gotta believe that if Andruw hits even close to .250 with RISP this team would be wildcard bound. The only useful thing he’s done this year with men on base is walk. Remember when Bobby and everyone was saying, “He’ll have his 30 HR and 100 RBI at the end.” Well guess what? Ain’t gonna happen. He’s officially tumbled into Richie Sexson territory.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

September 13, 2007 2:56 AM | Link to this

Um , the market for Renteria is extremely short. The Blue Jays just resigned John McDonald to a multi-year deal , they are off the list. The Cubs are committed to Ryan Theriot , cross them off. The A’s have Bobby Crosby and could not afford Edgar’s contract unless the Braves were to eat most of it , which is unlikely. The Cardinals will try to resign David Eckstein and really don’t have much in the way of pitching to trade. That leaves the Tigers and Whitesox. Jose Uribe has a team option for 2008 worth 5 million and he has produced 19 HR 59 RBI .230 AVG. Nothing special but I think the White Sox will stay with him for a fifth season. The Detroit Tigers have SS Carlos Guillen who is signed through 2011 to the tune of 48 million. However , he has seen limited action at 1B due to the total lack of production from that position. The Tigers might be inclined to leave him there as the free agent market for first sackers is bone dry. Edgar Renteria would be a good fit for them in that scenario. The young lefty pitcher Andruw Miller for Edgar Renteria ? It would be a tough sell and unlikely unless the Braves forked over a couple of prospects with Renteria. like I said at the beginning , it’s a short list for teams needing a short stop and I get the feeling that the Braves will have to trade more than they want if pitching is to be found.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

September 13, 2007 3:35 AM | Link to this

How well did Cox manage this season ? Here is a clue. The Braves have 72 quality starts and 74 wins. The Mets have 82 quality starts and 83 wins. Willie Randolph is just as overrated as Cox is , it’s just that he has benefited from better pitching. The Yankees have 69 quality starts and 83 wins. Joe Torre has used an incredible 13 starters and yet , the Yankees are about to win the wild card. Torre has done an incredible job in 2007. Another incredible managing job that has gone unrecognized is the one done by Tony La Russa. He has basically started from scratch with a whole new rotation. The Cardinals won’t make the playoff’s but considering the fact that that La Russa has squeezed 62 quality starts out of a makeshift rotation and the Cardinals are 69-74 , it’s remarkable. Compare that to Bobby Cox’s 74-72 Braves team and you can see just how bad Cox has mismanaged his pitching.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)

September 13, 2007 4:05 AM | Link to this

It’s rather poetic that the Braves finished 9-9 against the Mets for the season when many consider the Braves to be a .500 team.

By Metropolitan Man

September 13, 2007 4:06 AM | Link to this

NY POST ARTICLE: FORGET about if Tom Glavine is going to pitch next year. It was his decision for this current season that altered the NL East balance of power. He all but begged the Braves to return him to Atlanta to win his 300th game in his most familiar uniform and to be near his family. As his pal, Billy Wagner, said, “I know for a fact that he would have taken less money to play down there.” The Braves, however, pretty much shunned Glavine, telling him they did not have enough money to make an offer. So Glavine accepted his second choice, to stay a Met for $10.5 million. “It did have a big ripple effect,” Glavine said. It is quite a ripple. Remove Glavine’s 13 wins and 23 quality starts (tied for third in the NL with Atlanta’s Tim Hudson, one behind Atlanta’s John Smoltz) and move them to the Braves, and Atlanta probably wins the division. In that scenario, the Mets’ 2006 NL East title takes on the tinge of fluke. Instead, with the Braves at Shea as a witness, the Mets were surging to a second straight division title for the first time in their history. Meanwhile, even with last night’s 13-5 rout of the Mets, Atlanta was on the verge of a second straight empty October. The big reason Atlanta has faltered is the lack of a quality starter behind Smoltz and Hudson. “We might very well be in completely different positions” if Glavine were in that slot rather than with the Mets, Omar Minaya said. Hudson and Smoltz have combined to go 28-15 with a 3.26 ERA. The remaining Braves starters had gone 24-37 with a 5.64 ERA. The Braves have futilely tried to fill in the rotation with youth and journeymen, including Buddy Carlyle, who did not even get the win last night when his team scored 13 runs. The poor starts have overexposed a tepid Braves bullpen. Atlanta has craved durability and dependability, which is pretty much the thesaurus synonyms for Glavine, Tom. Braves GM John Schuerholz said his team didn’t push for Glavine because offseason plans were built around having Mike Hampton as the No. 3 starter. But that was a lot to ask of a pitcher coming off Tommy John surgery. Hampton broke down in spring training and needed more elbow surgery. And, as Glavine said, “I don’t know why they had the money to address (issues) in July and not November.” In July, the Braves suddenly found the money to add more than $7 million to their payroll in trades for Mark Teixeira, Ron Mahay and Octavio Dotel. And Atlanta desperately attempted, and failed, to obtain a No. 3 starter, Cincinnati’s Bronson Arroyo or the White Sox’s Jon Garland. “I wish I had hindsight to make these decisions,” Schuerholz said. But Wagner and Glavine suggested the motives were more personal. “I don’t think Schuerholz likes (Glavine),” Wagner said. Asked if that were true, Glavine said, “I don’t know the answer to that.” Schuerholz disputed any animosity in the relationship, saying, “It was not even an issue.”

However, in trying to solicit Atlanta’s interest last offseason, Glavine mostly appealed directly to Braves manager Bobby Cox. And the relationship between Glavine and Schuerholz was certainly dented, if not fractured, when in the executive’s autobiography, released in spring 2006, Schuerholz revealed Glavine had such doubts about joining the Mets following the 2002 season that he called Cox and intimidated he would break a verbal agreement and accept less to return to the Braves. The Mets, obviously, are glad Glavine was spurned by the Braves. Even with Glavine, the Mets were so unsure about the health and youth of their rotation they tried, and failed, to add another veteran. Minaya said if Glavine had rejected the Mets, the organization probably would have widened the pool of starters they were mulling to include free agents, though Minaya said they still would not have paid the prices necessary to land Ted Lilly or Gil Meche. More likely, they would have pushed harder to trade for a pitcher, perhaps Freddy Garcia, who turned out to have a bum arm. “We are not where we are without him,” Wagner said of Glavine. And the Braves might be in a completely different spot with him.

GRINCH: Not sure if you will see this or not but its been fun this season. As far as the season went the braves had me nervous early on but those METS turned it on late in the season. I think it had to do with most of the METS injured players coming back late and doing it without Delgado lately. You guys seem to have two injuries that really did you in: Chumper and Renteria. Chumper needs to man up and stop acting like a spoiled brat. We all lose sometimes but you never give up and you play with whatever is in the tank just to keep some sort of advantage.
Anyway I’m headed to NY tonight for vaction and take in some games at SHEA, so you guys keep rooting for your squad until they make you proud…then you root louder!!!

LETS START THE POSTSEASON NOW!!! LETS GO METS!!!

By Metropolitan Man

September 13, 2007 4:24 AM | Link to this

No surprise here: The game against the Braves on Tuesday night was the 300th Bobby Cox has managed against the Mets, the most by 61. The Braves have won 164 of them for a .547 winning percentage.

WOW, for supposedly owning the METS for 14 years, you only have 27 more wins in Booby Coxes tenure . That should even up within the next 3-5 years.

By Braves Fan 79

September 13, 2007 4:45 AM | Link to this

DOB: glad someone else agrees with me about escobar. Ive said since spring training i wanted him on the team and is there ANY doubt if we replace woodcrap with him on the roster we win more games in the first half!??
Everyone remember all those games we started woodcrap and orr when chipper got hurt? Put prado/escobar in there and man we would have WAY more than 3 sweeps on the season. I like how it took till the final 20 games of the season for Bobby to see that WOODCRAP SUCKS!! (no starts lately thank God…although it doesnt matter much anymore) Sorry but i still think this is a playoff calibar team, we just made the wrong moves for backup players coming out of spring training….and it REALLY hurt us!!

By Metropolitan Man

September 13, 2007 5:02 AM | Link to this

Just to make it fair and diplomatic, Bobby Cox was told he could exclude the Braves. Then the answer came easily. Which is the best team in the National League, heading toward the postseason? With a nod toward the other end of the hall, where the Mets’ clubhouse is, Cox said, “I think they’re No.1.” “They’re a solid team,” said the Braves manager, who has had the better of the Mets for many years until the past two. “We faced them four times in spring training, or three, at least, and you knew it was basically the same team as last year, a good team, solid. “All you heard in spring training - there were rumors everywhere - was the pitching wouldn’t hold up. But the pitching did hold up,” he said yesterday before his club pounded the Mets, 13-5, but remained far behind - 8 1/2 games back. Not that he was officially waving the white flag and he isn’t saying the Mets are a lock. “Again, you’re talking about the playoffs,” Cox said, as mindful as anyone that the apparent “best” team doesn’t always win in October. Still, he is impressed, especially after the Mets’ three-game sweep at Turner Field on Aug. 31-Sept. 2. Ever since, Mets fans have seen that series as the defining moment. Fact is, it wasn’t only the Mets who will remember it. “That was pretty much our turning point, to date,” Cox said. “They were 4 1/2 ahead of us and if we win two, we’re down 3 1/2 and we’re right in the middle of it, with the Phillies probably two out. Instead, it went the other way in two days, just like that.” So even a lopsided win didn’t give the Braves hope of catching the Mets. They are different from the opponent the Braves saw in Port St. Lucie and Lake Buena Vista in March. They have withstood injuries, answered pitching questions and made themselves deeper. “I like this [Luis] Castillo deal. I thought that was major,” Cox said of the July 30 trade that brought the second baseman from the Twins. “I bet you he’s a lifetime .300 hitter, and he knows how to play the game. That was a major pickup. He never makes an error and he’s on base all the time.” Close on the average, just a little short. Castillo entered last night batting .294 for his career. But you get the drift. “Let me tell you, he’s one of the managers I like. I like Bobby Cox because I know him from when I played with the Marlins,” Castillo said. “He’s a great manager. I’m happy when a guy like that says good things.” Any baseball person would like the little contributions like the one Castillo made when he sprinted to the second base bag Monday, took a peg from Oliver Perez and completed a flawless pickoff on Tim Hudson. It defused a Braves rally. “All the time, I say to the pitchers, ‘If you get a man on second, look at us infielders. If you make an out, you have an easier time,’” Castillo said. Willie Randolph said: “I’ve been trying to get them to do it all year and I finally said, ‘See? This is what happens.’ I’m trying to get guys to understand that’s a good play. Even if you don’t get the guy, it’s a good play. It keeps them close to the base, they don’t venture out too far.” Little things like that add up to a commanding lead for the Mets over their old nemesis. No wonder they are No.1 in one expert’s poll. They don’t even know if there is room in their postseason rotation for Perez, who is 4-1 against the Braves.

Said Cox, “He’d get my vote.”

Glavine gets it, Smolzt gets it, even Booby gets it. When will braves fans get it?????

My bad, some of you have and good looking on the recognition that we need to keep rooting for the METS. Thats why METS fans blog here LEW, looking for YOUR recognition, then we will go away. (sarcasm) You know we are never going away!!! Live with it.

Keep up the distraction to the playoffs DOB with the articles. You can recycle them when the hot stove starts.

By Braves Fan 79

September 13, 2007 5:16 AM | Link to this

Met man: thanks for posting that article as the atlanta writers seem to shy away from posting JS’s failures. I told everyone after last season that us getting Glavine back should be priority #1! I mean even if hampton was healthy hes still NOT A BIG GAME PITCHER! It made me sick when the Braves didnt meet his deadline….it made me even sicker when we picked up TOTAL CRAP in the offseason with the SAME $$ we could of used to grab Glavine back!! wilson, woodcrap, redmen….BARF! WTF was JS thinking!?? He gave Bobby CRAP to use…and Bobby believes in his players so much he runs crap out there TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

I cant count how many times woodcrap started a game when we were going for a sweep over a team (hmmm and pple wonder why we only have 3 sweeps!) Or how many times woodcrap came up to pitchitt in what would end up being our LAST scoring chance of the game? I know not everythings his fault, but u replace him with escobar coming out of spring training and i guarntee were +10 wins right now!
Im starting to think Bobby has a fascination with weak hitting, average at best defense, backup infielders ;( not a good sign.

By Coach : N.Y Post article by Joel Sherman

September 13, 2007 5:23 AM | Link to this

September 12, 2007 — FORGET about if Tom Glavine is going to pitch next year. It was his decision for this current season that altered the NL East balance of power.

He all but begged the Braves to return him to Atlanta to win his 300th game in his most familiar uniform and to be near his family. As his pal, Billy Wagner, said, “I know for a fact that he would have taken less money to play down there.”

The Braves, however, pretty much shunned Glavine, telling him they did not have enough money to make an offer. So Glavine accepted his second choice, to stay a Met for $10.5 million.

“It did have a big ripple effect,” Glavine said.

It is quite a ripple. Remove Glavine’s 13 wins and 23 quality starts (tied for third in the NL with Atlanta’s Tim Hudson, one behind Atlanta’s John Smoltz) and move them to the Braves, and Atlanta probably wins the division.

In that scenario, the Mets’ 2006 NL East title takes on the tinge of fluke. Instead, with the Braves at Shea as a witness, the Mets were surging to a second straight division title for the first time in their history. Meanwhile, even with last night’s 13-5 rout of the Mets, Atlanta was on the verge of a second straight empty October.

The big reason Atlanta has faltered is the lack of a quality starter behind Smoltz and Hudson.

“We might very well be in completely different positions” if Glavine were in that slot rather than with the Mets, Omar Minaya said.

Hudson and Smoltz have combined to go 28-15 with a 3.26 ERA. The remaining Braves starters had gone 24-37 with a 5.64 ERA. The Braves have futilely tried to fill in the rotation with youth and journeymen, including Buddy Carlyle, who did not even get the win last night when his team scored 13 runs. The poor starts have overexposed a tepid Braves bullpen. Atlanta has craved durability and dependability, which is pretty much the thesaurus synonyms for Glavine, Tom.

By Coach : N.Y Post article by Joel Sherman

September 13, 2007 5:26 AM | Link to this

September 12, 2007 — FORGET about if Tom Glavine is going to pitch next year. It was his decision for this current season that altered the NL East balance of power.

He all but begged the Braves to return him to Atlanta to win his 300th game in his most familiar uniform and to be near his family. As his pal, Billy Wagner, said, “I know for a fact that he would have taken less money to play down there.”

The Braves, however, pretty much shunned Glavine, telling him they did not have enough money to make an offer. So Glavine accepted his second choice, to stay a Met for $10.5 million.

“It did have a big ripple effect,” Glavine said.

It is quite a ripple. Remove Glavine’s 13 wins and 23 quality starts (tied for third in the NL with Atlanta’s Tim Hudson, one behind Atlanta’s John Smoltz) and move them to the Braves, and Atlanta probably wins the division.

In that scenario, the Mets’ 2006 NL East title takes on the tinge of fluke. Instead, with the Braves at Shea as a witness, the Mets were surging to a second straight division title for the first time in their history. Meanwhile, even with last night’s 13-5 rout of the Mets, Atlanta was on the verge of a second straight empty October.

The big reason Atlanta has faltered is the lack of a quality starter behind Smoltz and Hudson.

“We might very well be in completely different positions” if Glavine were in that slot rather than with the Mets, Omar Minaya said.

Hudson and Smoltz have combined to go 28-15 with a 3.26 ERA. The remaining Braves starters had gone 24-37 with a 5.64 ERA. The Braves have futilely tried to fill in the rotation with youth and journeymen, including Buddy Carlyle, who did not even get the win last night when his team scored 13 runs. The poor starts have overexposed a tepid Braves bullpen. Atlanta has craved durability and dependability, which is pretty much the thesaurus synonyms for Glavine, Tom.

Braves GM John Schuerholz said his team didn’t push for Glavine because offseason plans were built around having Mike Hampton as the No. 3 starter. But that was a lot to ask of a pitcher coming off Tommy John surgery. Hampton broke down in spring training and needed more elbow surgery. And, as Glavine said, “I don’t know why they had the money to address (issues) in July and not November.”

In July, the Braves suddenly found the money to add more than $7 million to their payroll in trades for Mark Teixeira, Ron Mahay and Octavio Dotel. And Atlanta desperately attempted, and failed, to obtain a No. 3 starter, Cincinnati’s Bronson Arroyo or the White Sox’s Jon Garland.

“I wish I had hindsight to make these decisions,” Schuerholz said.

But Wagner and Glavine suggested the motives were more personal.

“I don’t think Schuerholz likes (Glavine),” Wagner said. Asked if that were true, Glavine said, “I don’t know the answer to that.” Schuerholz disputed any animosity in the relationship, saying, “It was not even an issue.”

However, in trying to solicit Atlanta’s interest last offseason, Glavine mostly appealed directly to Braves manager Bobby Cox. And the relationship between Glavine and Schuerholz was certainly dented, if not fractured, when in the executive’s autobiography, released in spring 2006, Schuerholz revealed Glavine had such doubts about joining the Mets following the 2002 season that he called Cox and intimidated he would break a verbal agreement and accept less to return to the Braves.

The Mets, obviously, are glad Glavine was spurned by the Braves. Even with Glavine, the Mets were so unsure about the health and youth of their rotation they tried, and failed, to add another veteran. Minaya said if Glavine had rejected the Mets, the organization probably would have widened the pool of starters they were mulling to include free agents, though Minaya said they still would not have paid the prices necessary to land Ted Lilly or Gil Meche. More likely, they would have pushed harder to trade for a pitcher, perhaps Freddy Garcia, who turned out to have a bum arm.

“We are not where we are without him,” Wagner said of Glavine.

And the Braves might be in a completely different spot with him

By David O'Brien

September 13, 2007 6:07 AM | Link to this

Just saw Sartre’s post from 11:23 last night, his lineup. Laughed my a#@ off. Which was good, because now, must head over to LaGuardia, which will surely not be humorous in any way.

By Serbok

September 13, 2007 6:13 AM | Link to this

DOB Your Acumen es mucho appreciado! Really didnt think I would be posting again this yr~ I will continue to read, due to your acumen, I couldnt help but post and say that I couldnt agree more! “THE TRADE was Awesome” The : N.Y Post article by Joel Sherman Very Awesome!

By TheCutMan

September 13, 2007 6:14 AM | Link to this

I totally agree on the assessment of Escobar. I usually go down to Orlando for a few spring training games and in the UNlikely scenario where Escobar is traded in the off-season, I swear that I will picket the Braves at the Disney complex.

Another one sent FAR……by, Y-BAR!

By wjones

September 13, 2007 6:40 AM | Link to this

That was a good article about Glavine and the balance of power, though I didn’t need to see it posted 3 times. One thing that the article did not mention, however, is that at the time of the negotiatons, the sale of the team had not gone through and JS was still under his strict budget constraints, lifted after the sale of the team in May was made official, allowing him to do the Tex trade. If the sale had been consumated last October, then this story may very well could have had a different ending. I’m thinking the season would have been planned for a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James, with Hampton in a no pressure fifth spot, with Cormier and Davies there in case Hampton wasn’t ready, thereby nullifying the need for the Redman signing. Oh well, spilt milk at this point.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 7:23 AM | Link to this

How well did Cox manage this season ? Here is a clue. The Braves have 72 quality starts and 74 wins. The Mets have 82 quality starts and 83 wins. Willie Randolph is just as overrated as Cox is , it’s just that he has benefited from better pitching. The Yankees have 69 quality starts and 83 wins. Joe Torre has used an incredible 13 starters and yet , the Yankees are about to win the wild card. Torre has done an incredible job in 2007…

Coach,

What thing you didn’t mention at all in your entire post was offense. Not saying Joe Torre is a bad manager but doesn’t take a genius to see why the Yankees have won so much with mediocre pitching, and it ain’t Joe Torre! They have scored almost 6 runs a game. Pretty easy to overcome a non-quality start when scoring almost 50 runs more than any other team in baseball.

By BravesfanAtlanta

September 13, 2007 7:26 AM | Link to this

I love Escobar and I also think its time to trade Edgar and give the spot to him. If the braves trade Edgar for starting pitching and sign a center fielder (not Andruw) that can defend and hit at the same time, we might have a chance to reclaim the NL East. This team has no holes other then the pitching and our payroll is not out of the sky. Tex really needs to be locked up long term and so does Francoeur. That really needs to be addressed in the off season. But pitching, we need pitching. Pen for certain. No more blown games. We just cant have that.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 7:29 AM | Link to this

Don’t know what it is, but that seems like a common flaw in baseball analysis—some only look at one aspect of the game at a time to explain things. Can’t just look at quality starts or clutch hitting or the manager. It’s much more complicated. Throw in the fact that sometimes a team does not get the breaks or gets breaks they shouldn’t (see Edgar hitting a very hard line drive the other night with Hudson on second and almost hitting into a double play or Francoeur’s grounder that found it’s way between Wright and Reyes lastnight), which complicated things even more.

By BravesfanAtlanta

September 13, 2007 7:35 AM | Link to this

DOB…..What are your thoughts about pitching next year? You dont think the Braves will try to being Glavine back do you? This scares me very badly to think of a lineup that has two 42 year olds in Smoltz and Glavine and a Hampton who has been out two years with arm problems. Just wondering what your thoughts are. I just think a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Glavine and James is a disaster waiting to happen. Who do you see next season?

By Will

September 13, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

Very rereshing comments by Smoltz after the game last night. Obviously a player should not really say things like that til the playoffs are lost, but its a nice change from the usual company line.

By doc

September 13, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

just read the comments by frenchy about getting breaks. when do they learn that the only way to get breaks is to make more consistant contact? instead of the consistant efort to hit it out they need to work on manufacturing runs. a team as undisciplined at bat as they are will not make the plays to bunt, hit behind the runner and get the sacs that we used to love as the braves played braves baseball. needless to say if they conitnue to not do those things and ring up k after k thereby not even putting the ball into play they will never get the breaks. at some point a winner knows he makes the breaks not the other way around.

the baby braves have stayed just that, whiny little braves rather than grow into a dominant force. it means the clubhouse is peaceful and there are no players with bad attitudes but it also may mean there isnt the passion to win just the entitlemnet that they ought to win. maybe frenchy is trying to sound grown up and by saying these things it sounds like he cares, it just reveals something else about the characteer of the team.

to get rid of edgar is to get rid of the only guy that can do just these things necessary to win. we swooned when he went to the bench with his injury. i disagree on the thesis dob that we are better as a team by letting him go and hoping to get something equivalent in return. again we look good on paper but get burned in the end. yeah the mets are probably better at most every position as the braves play now so they have to do something else to win. they had it at the beginning of the season and let it go.

who would have thought the mets with their pitching staff that they had to start the season would be doing this to the braves. an interesting stat would be how many pitchers the braves used this year vs other teams and in the past and is that the way to run a bullpen?

By robdawg06

September 13, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

What i mean by another Arod is that once he gets a full 162 games he will put up .300 35-40 100 numbers. He’s built just like Arod too. He just took a little longer to develop his game than Arod did.

DOB, the tv,radio,tickets sales at games by the fans is what pays the player’s salaries. It doesn’t come from the incarnated “money tree” of the owners. The owners take in the fans monies and disperse it among players. Just like the AJC takes in monies from subscribers to pay your salary. So without the fans baseball is dead as with any other sport.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

doc,

Braves have actually struck out 26 times less than their opponents in late and close situations. They’ve also hit better by any measure you want to use and out-scored their opponents in late and close situations.

By General Patton

September 13, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

He needs to learn the fundementals of infield play. Three times this week he has failed to throw the ball to the correct base and check the lead runner.

Bottom line, the Braves are a poorly coached and woefully understaffed team.

By Efrim

September 13, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Tough loss. They showed heart. I’m proud of them for that. It amazes me that Smoltz never gets any run support over this team. Really crazy.

By J.D. Phillips

September 13, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

This team reminds me of a marriage, once good, slowly going sour. There are warning signs everywhere but you want to ignore it hoping there is hope for the future and everything will be like it once was in the glory days.

I can possible see a multi-player deal involving the Braves over the off-season. Bad luck or not there is too much inconsistency with this team.

Cox is not the coach of the future with this organization so why does he not do the appropriate thing and step down at season’s end. He is hurting this team these days and more Braves fans than not realize this.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

robdawg06,

I think Escobar is going to be great (he already is good), but ARod? At age 24 ARod hit .316/.420/.606. ARod is one of those elite Hall of Famers that belongs in a class with Ruth, Wagner and Williams. I think it’s a little unfair to compare him to ARod.

By doc

September 13, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

shaun. i really didnt delve deep into dob’s stats the other day as i had hoped to come back to it but i thought the point was that they had not deliverd after the 6th inning.

say what you want but what? 5 executed bunts in the month of august is pretty sorry. they are not doing the small things to make the breaks and that has been a consistant theme this year. how many times this year have they been overmatched at bat? relief pichings numbers werent all that bad if i remember or were a lot better than i would have expected as this season has gone.

teams that do the small things win more than three in a row consistantly which this team has not. if they are as good as you suggest in those situations maybe then it is just a lack of focus that allows the teams the braves used to beat handidly to actually take series away from them. it is either they are soft or they arent as good as many here have argued since the orlando.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 13, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

8 games until elimination and it will be officialy all over. So are you brave fans gonna root for the Mets in the playoffs? They would be representing the NL East.

By Will

September 13, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Shaun, You can throw any stat you want about late and close game situations, but i just want you to explain to me why they still continue to lose every close game. I know the pitching has had its ups and downs, but the Braves hardly ever get clutch hits, especially the last month.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

General Patton,

I hope you’re not referring to the play where Escobar fielded the ball and threw to first to get the out and Beltran went to third. There is nothing he could have done on that play unless he wanted to hold the ball, not getting an out, in hopes that Beltran was running, which he probably wouldn’t have had Escobar held on to the ball.

If Escobar holds the ball, there are more than likely runners on first and second and the Braves don’t get an out on the play. Still a runner in scoring position (plus a runner on first) and one less out.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

doc,

Well, their numbers from the 7th inning on aren’t as good as their opponents’ but when the game is close their numbers are actually better than their opponents’. I think a big reason the Braves are losing close games is because Andruw Jones has the second-most ABs in late and close situations.

By Lee in S. GA

September 13, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

NO CHOP ZONE

Me personally rooting for the Mets. He!l NO. Never believed in that crap that one needs to pull for that team just because the team is from the same division as your favorite team. If the Brewers may it I will pull for them if not I am a D’backs fan also.

I do not see any team in the N.L. winning the World series anyway. I know about the cardinals last year. Lighting striking twice is rare.

Mets will be the last team I pull for…even if they play the Yankees.

By STRETCH

September 13, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

THE BRAVES MANAGEMENT COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB OF GETTING GLAVINE BACK, WHICH LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT MAYBE JS DOES NOT LIKE GLAVINE. IF SO…GREAT JOB THERE JS!!!! BONEHEAD!!!!

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TOM GLAVINE WHO SHUT DOWN THE MIGHTY INDIANS IN THE 95 WORLD SERIES…A SHUTOUT FOLKS! AND JS WITH HIS STUBORN AZZZ, DOESNT BRING GLAVINE BACK? GLAVINE SHOULD HAVE NEVER LEFT. THE DAY HE LEFT, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF..”THE BRAVES ARE GOING DOWN” AND ITS BE TRUE SINCE.

A FEW THINGS THAT NEED TO CHANGE:

1. GET RID OF HAMPTON AND AJ AND GET SOMETHING THEM
2. BOBBY COX….RETIRE ALREADY! THEY NEED A MANAGER THAT KNOWS HOW TO BE AGGRESSIVE AND AT THE SAME TIME KNOWS HOW TO PLAY SMALL BALL.
3. LET DIAZ TAKE OVER AND START
4. FOCUS ONLY ON PITCHING THIS OFF SEASON
5. BRING GLAVINE BACK, HE CAN’T POSSIBLY BE AS BAD AS WHAT WE GOT THIS SEASON IN THE 3-5 SPOTS!!!

By Efrim

September 13, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

I didn’t used to be as big an Escobar fan, but over time, I am now. If given the everday SS job in 2008, I think he can post a line of:

.300/.350/.430

That is solid, as long as he plays quality defense.

He really reminds me of Orlando Cabrera.

By Will

September 13, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Stretch, Do you think that maybe, just maybe the reason the Braves did not bring Glavine back is because they could not really afford it with their ownership?? How is that the GM’s fault!

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Will,

I think it’s a combination of reasons. Andruw Jones has the second-most ABs in those situations, McCann has the sixth-most, Matt Diaz hasn’t hit particularly well in those situations and he has the seventh-most, same with Willie Harris who has the eighth-most, and Scott Thorman has the ninth-most. That’s five guys who have a significant number of ABs in those situations. In close games, a handful of players have made the difference, even if the team as a whole has out-hit their opponents. That can happen in a small sample of games and plate appearances.

…That along with bad breaks (yes, I think there’s something to what the players are saying).

…Along with the fact that a pretty big portion of their one-run losses have come on the road. They are actually over .500 in one-run games at home, 10-6. On the road they are 6-18. The home team obviously has the advantage in close games because they are going to get the last chance to score a run or two.

By Jim Sessoms

September 13, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

I agree with trading Renteria (has he had a hit since he came back after the injury?) and Andruw would be gone too if I had the authority. Francoeur can play Center. Diaz needs to play every day—put him in Right—or in left and Harris in Right. GET ANOTHER STARTER! Have a massive class on Bunting—or how to make contact in order to move runners over; get some speed;but not unless you’re going to USE it! I’m a Cox supporter, but some of his decisions lately bother me. C’mon Hampton!!

By STRETCH

September 13, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

WILL, do you think that everything you hear from the media is true? There are lots of things that go on behind closed doors that management shares. Billy Wagner even asked Tom Glavine what was up between him and JS. Glavine even wondered how the Braves suddenly and mysteriously found extra cash later that season!

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

GET RID OF HAMPTON

yes, tossing $15 million dollars down the drain to a player you have to pay whether you cut him or not makes a whole lot of sense. and that trade market for hampton is at an all time high. he will so easily be moved. every team wants to help sir john out by taking a $15 million dollar broken armed pitcher off his hands. yes. we have not heard this sort of illogical statement about hampton since april. not happy to see it rear its ugly head yet again.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Will,

I still think a lot of people underestimate the luck factor. I can think of two instances last night:

Escobar’s throw to first to get an out, which he had to make, that allowed Beltran to go the third.

Francoeur’s hit could have been a routine grounder if he is maybe 1/10th of a second quicker or slower or a cm off.

One day when you have a chance to do nothing but sit down and watch a whole game, you should jot down all the instances where a play could have easily turned out extremely different if something minuscule had been done differently.

Usually these things even out over 162 games and baseball talent wins out, but a lot of times they don’t. The best teams are teams that either get the breaks or teams that are so good that the breaks don’t matter, or the breaks do even out and they are actually one of the best teams.

By wjones

September 13, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Yes, I agree, Braveheart, our friend is a little out of touch. And I don’t think we could get a whole lot FOR Andruw, since he is a 10-5 player who could veto a trade for the 18 games we have him under contract! Then he is a free agent, unless he accepts arbitration, then we could either get draft picks for him, or sign and trade him ONLY IF HE ACCEPTS THE TRADE. As for the money “mysteriously appearing” after the Glavine discussions, there IS NO MYSTERY! THE TEAM WAS SOLD! THE TEX DEAL HAPPENDED AFTER THE SALE! THE GLAVINE TALKS WERE BEFORE THE SALE! Name me one “big deal” we pulled off, or big money free agent we signed, between Glavine and Tex.

By Wayne in Utah

September 13, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

OK. I am tired of reading about infielders. Time for DOB’s outfielder blog, or corner infielder blog, or catcher blog……

I hate off days.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Well, the overnight posts were a learning experience, as usual. We learned that the Mets fans don’t seek our approval and recognition. Worry About Yourself was so adamant on this point that he posted basically the same post four times. MetroDude wrote us two separate novels on why we wanted/didn’t want Glavine and why we should/shouldn’t have gotten him. We also learned MetroDude doesn’t seek our recognition and doesn’t especially seek MY recognition personally-doesn’t seek it, yet he keeps mentioning the fact that he doesn’t seek it. Strange? Sure appears that way to me. Seems it’s on his mind quite a bit for someone who doesn’t care. We’ve also seen that Berigan may well start the annual push to sign Ryan Freel. In other words-not a damn thing has changed (including the fact that MetroDude claims to be a nice guy, but is just as big an @$$ as all the rest of the Trolls). Chop Zone-Root for the Mets? I certainly wouldn’t hold my breath and turn purple waiting for THAT to happen. Besides, you wouldn’t love me anymore if I did. I wouldn’t mind having Maine on the Braves and Rick Peterson as OUR pitching coach, but cheering for the Mets? No way. Just not in my genetic makeup.

Now lineup improvements for next year-Wow, I’m literally stunned at some of the suggestions. KC-Please stop with the Chone Figgins/Angels thing. They are not our solution for anything. Berigan-Freel is not the answer, though Brandon Philips could be interesting. Y’all-Glavine is not the answer, either. It is so apparent that there is a personality problem with Glavine and JS and it’s not going to change. Add to that the fact that Tommy, though still performing well, is still old, getting older, and at the very least would be a quick, temporary fix for our pitching woes. He is not the answer, nor is dumping KJ, Renteria and Tex. I mean, are y’all really serious?

Now there was, however, someone talking some sense last night and I only wish this idea had been mine. That suggestion was to pick up Rajai Davis and a young pitcher from the Giants. THAT is flipping brilliant. It shows logic. IT MAKES SENSE!!!!! I was as impressed with the outfield play and hitting ability of Davis this year, as much as with any young player we faced. The kid has some bona fide talent. The Giants young pitching-and IT IS YOUNG pitching we need (you know? to Build on?)-is excellent. Picking up either Cain or Lincecum (but not Lowrey who just got hurt-we don’t need injured young pitchers) would fit our needs perfectly. Finally, someone used logic and tries to fill needs without giving up, as Braveheart mentioned, 3 of the top OBP in the league and a good bit of our offense. Amazing.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

for those who say mccann just has baby fat, here is a picture from when he was drafted and much slimmer. the excess weight can’t be helping his agility behind the plate, his speed, or his ankle woes

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

wjones,

Don’t think you can do sign and trades in baseball. Don’t think you can trade players that were signed until after May 15 or something like that. Not sure the purpose of this rule, but I think that is the case.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 13, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

robdawg06 Newspaper economics 101… Subscribers of a newspaper do little more than cover the cost of the newsprint of the paper. It is the advertisement revenue that is based on the circulation of the paper that allows for salaries and profits.

Aside from the fact that Dave O’Brien is a very good beat reporter, the number of hits registered (not necessarily the number of post) allow for the AJC to charge a premium for advertisers to sponsor his blog.

Same in baseball and all professional sports. The popularity of a team allows for greater revenue to be generated in team related items. The danger of being owned by a public corporation rather than an individual owner is more attention is usually paid to the immediate bottom line than the goal of actually winning championships.

By Wayne in Utah

September 13, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Lew: From the Giants perspective, who would the Braves have that they want for Cain and Davis?

Before answering, realize the Giants are VERY old, and are probably going in a different direction this year.

So, my thinking is that they might do something with us for Winn and Cain, but I suspect they will try to keep Davis.

With their pitching (Zito, Lincecum, Cain, Lowry, Sanchez) they might be willing to part with one guy, probably Cain or Lowry. But with all the old dead wood they have lying around (Roberts, Winn, Durham, Feliz, etc.) they are most probably going to try to get younger.

Here is a for instance: Would they trade Cain and Randy Winn for Edgar Renteria and Jo-Jo Reyes? This might be more realistic. Winn might actually be a decent pickup for the Braves, as we need a 2-3 year solution in centerfield.

I love all the trade theories on the blog. Some are downright funny. Others downright ridiculous. ie Let’s deal Woodward, Harris, Orr, Carlyle and Corky Miller for Kelvim Escobar……

Folks, lets talk trades, but lets look at them from the other teams perspective too! Gotta give up something that THEY want, not something that WE want to unload.

(all that was not directed at you, Lew!)

By Hammy the Brave

September 13, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Coach,

I disagree with your assessment of the trade market for Renteria.

Toronto is still a possibility, because McDonald was signed only as a backup, I believe. His contract was for 2 yrs and $1.8 mill. total, and he’s known as all glove, no bat.

From what I read in the Chicago papers, the white Sox are very unhappy with their ss Uribe, and are defintely looking for someone else.

As for the Cubs, I haven’t heard anything about how they view their ss situation, but Theriot was seen as a backup when he came up thru their system.

Also, I think you’re counting out the SF Giants far too quickly. Omar Vizquel is a FA after this yr, and from what I read of their system, they don’t have a ss prospect ready to take over.

Just wanted to show more Renteria options,

Hammy the Brave

By bronkelliott

September 13, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Basically 3 reasons folks for the Braves decline….

1) Awful pitching and a manager who refuse to adjust(Example: Yankees pitching woes but turned the season around in the tough AL.

2) The horrid decline of aging, lazy, Andruw Jones!!!! Absolutely awful beyond measure this year and made no adjustment at all to improve via TP or Bobby Cox dealing with him!

3) An aged manger who cannot change with the times and seasons of a younger team without the pitching studs! His best days are behind him and change is needed all around. (The Mets have a good balnce of veterans and youth and are aggressive when needed… When is the last time you can remember a Brave stealing a base? A successful bunt? Somenone other than Cox yelling from the Dugout? Sorry, but I have observed this team for over 30 years and the truth is the truth!

BJE

By wjones

September 13, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I was just addressing the only ways we could get ANYTHING for Andruw, to what was posted previously regarding dumping him and Hampton for anything. Even if that was legal, I see no reason why the Braves would entertain that. Braveheart addressed the Hampton comment as well as could be done.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 13, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Lew Yes, the second guessers and naysayers are having a field day with the I told you so. Those that see starting pitching or lack thereof as the Braves number one nemesis this year are right on. A lot of teams are in the same boat as the Braves in this respect and it will be the general manager with the clearest crystal ball and the biggest rabbit’s foot who will make the right moves for their team next year. The fact that those items cost a lot of money should not be lost on the populace.

By Wayne in Utah

September 13, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Hammy: Dead on about the teams needing a SS. Detroit does NOT want to go into 2008 with Guillen as their SS also.

Pitchers I think we could get for Renteria are: Marshall of the Cubs, maybe Cain of the Giants (see post above), Garland or Vazquez of the Chisox, or McGowan of the Blue Jays.

Some of those deals might have to be sweetened a bit.

By Chuck

September 13, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

The Braves have had so many disappointing things this year. The starting pitching that imploded (Hampton and Cormier injured, Davies and McBride booted), the great bullpen that got injured, etc. Major trouble also was Chipper being out. He is so feared and so clutch - they lose a lot when he’s not in the lineup. I think they missed Julio Franco and Hampton not being on the bench also. Smoltz is too emotional and Chipper is too spoiled to be good team leaders. Maddux and Glavine used to be team anchors - Smoltz and Chipper do their best, but they’re not those people. Franco stays loose and has been around long enough that he’s above reproach. Hampton leads by example. I think McCann would have been more of a force if not for his injuries also. Oh well, I enjoyed rooting for them this year, and we’ll pick it up again next! The Mets have finally spent enough to achieve critical mass, and it’s over for the rest of the division barring Mets injuries or diva meltdowns. It’s a very different division than it used to be!

By Anders

September 13, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Lew Well last night was a preview of what you can expect next year with your young ‘uns plan. The Braves were competitive and showed some heart only to be done in by a rookie mental error in the bottom of the 8th inning. You play 4 guys with little experience every day next year and these types of things will happen regularly while they go through growing pains. That’s all I was saying yesterday. Plus the long season takes it’s toll on guys until they learn how to deal with it.

BTW -We’ll give you Maine and Peterson for Francoeur and Escobar.

By Efrim

September 13, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Lew

KC-Please stop with the Chone Figgins/Angels thing. They are not our solution for anything.

Agreed. I am shocked that a man of KC’s intelligence would even post such nonsense. Figgins is good, Escobar is loved there, Kotchman is a light hitting first baseman. No need for any of them.

By ncscoots

September 13, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

There just aren’t many, if any, logical fits that would move Edgar for pitching. Just aren’t. It now seems to me that bullpen arms, and perhaps even Chuck, may have to be in a package to secure a good starter. That kind of trade package may hold interest in more quarters that actually have starting pitching to trade, and certainly could have broader appeal than a package highlighted by a veteran position player…even one with Edgar’s resume.

By MegaBravesFan

September 13, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

I just read an old article about Yunel in the minor leagues. It kinda made me laugh because of how obsolete it is now.

Here it is

By Wayne in Utah

September 13, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

WW Being a tad overweight myself, I know first hand what little things it does to you. Absolutely correct that Baby Huey needs to shed about 15-20 pounds this off season.

Is he listening to anybody about this? I hope so. In case he is a blogger, Brian, we love you man, but you gotta visit Jenny Craig, get that ankle worked on, and get those moves behind the plate refined (let’s not pancake the ball so much!).

Don’t turn into an AJ and wait until your walk year to think about your conditioning.

By Wayne in Utah

September 13, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Chuck: I agree with you on all counts. I do think the Mets might have a day of reckoning coming, as they are a bit long in the tooth at some positions.

By coachk

September 13, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Escobar is the man at short and I hate to see Edgar go but it is the trading move, please package Cox and JS with that because I am tired of this team underachieving.. We are the worst in 1 run games due to Cox. We have speed don’t use it, don’t hit and run don’t play small ball and I see no heart in anyone. Just a bunch of talented players going out to play. We need some emotionand Smoltz is not to emotional as Chuck states I wish a few others has his passion. And as for not getting Glavine not only was that bonehead you could have has Maddux after the Dodgers parted ways. What is JS doing Mang needs to get their heads out of their as** the talent is here the Heart is not

By joel

September 13, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

The Braves should start this offseason by letting Andrew go. Move Frenchy to CF, move KJ to right, and let Escobar play 2B for the next 2 years until Edgar’s contract is up. They can spend any extra money trying to bring in another decent pitcher.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

if the Giants trade any of those pitchers or Davis, Sabean should be fired. He has made some bad moves recently but they need to keep their kids. I remember when they played the Braves, they played like a very old team. there were several plays where their old players just seemed ancient and slow and seemed to lack the fire to prove themselves by laying out for flyballs or line drives.

With the Braves offense, if the Braves had Lowry, Cain, Zito, Lincecum, and Matt Morris all year, the Braves would be in the playoffs right now. The Giants should be set for the next 5 years with Lowry, Cain, Zito, Lincecum. They just need to find themselves some young hitters and hungry ballplayers who don’t have big contracts and who feel like they need to plays balls to the wall in order to score/prevent runs. I did not see that this year when I saw the old players on the Giants offense and defense. As Lew said, the only player I saw that with was Rajai Davis. Davis has good minor league stats but he is rather old for a guy just making it to the majors. He’ll be 27 next year.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Quitter talk. It’s disappointing. I’m not sure exactly what caused it, but it’s a bummer to say the least. When the game is over the response you get is, “they’re better than us” and “we’re just hoping we’ll catch a break”. When did this club house’s mind set change from “win it”, to “hope everyone else loses”? The few positive statements come across like they consult the Crash Davis Media Survival Guide. Sometimes the delivery is better than Nuke LaLoosh… sometimes.

Oh well. If that’s how’s it’s going to be I hope they get it together enough in the next 2.5 weeks to put on a run and at least secure second place. 6 games against the Nats and Marlins… great opportunity to climb back into second and finish the season strong. They could do something even more special, but it’s going to take a change in mindset.

By flange1

September 13, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Good blog again. I agree with most everything you say about Edgar and Yunnel. It will be ashame to see Edgar move on but Yunnel is ready. That is the way the game works sometimes.

No Chop,

I would not pull for the Mets for anything against anybody. In fact I will pull for whoever PLAYS the Mets either from the NL or the AL.

Metro Man,

Not interested in what you think or what you have to say.

Anders,

see above.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Anders,

To which rookie mental mistake are you referring? Don’t remember one.

Were you talking about the ground-out to Escobar where he had to get the out that allowed Beltran to go to third, otherwise it’s first and second with no outs instead of runner on third with one out?

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

If ever there is a question about why a certain rule exists which would prevent a team from moving a player at a given time or within a time frame, the answer is almost always “The Players Union”.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Ever think Davis didn’t get a chance sooner, not because he can’t play but because Pirates’ management doesn’t have a clue as to what they’re doing? I mean look at their organization. Look at Jason Bay. Bay had good minor league numbers, played well in the majors in 30 games in 2003 yet still went back to the minors for the first month of 2004.

By Paladin

September 13, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

The “range war” is over and with it the need for old gun-slingers. It’s now a world of bean-counters, statisticians, GM-wannabees and dirt-farmers. Since I’m not any use in those “fields”, I’ll be moseying along.

If “shooting” breaks out, wire Paladin-San Francisco. Actually, Braveheart and Grinch know how to reach me.

Adios

By Jeff R

September 13, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Can’t disagree with anything DOB wrote. Aside from getting another solid starting pitcher, the Braves need to end the Bullpen by Committee arrangement. I think it’s best to have a few go-to guys to set up and closer who knows he’s going to get the ball when it counts.

By Southpaw

September 13, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

Keep A. Jones, get rid of Renteria and use Escobar at SS. Tex ends up being a “keeper”.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Ever think Davis didn’t get a chance sooner, not because he can’t play but because Pirates’ management doesn’t have a clue as to what they’re doing? I mean look at their organization. Look at Jason Bay. Bay had good minor league numbers, played well in the majors in 30 games in 2003 yet still went back to the minors for the first month of 2004.

Yeah, Shaun, I was thinking that about Rajai Davis as I posted it. I was gonna make a comparison to Diaz and Millar being quality ballplayers who got robbed of longer careers by not getting their chance until they were 27 or 28 but I did not want to turn the post into one of my novels. I actually wanted to launch into a rant about the stupidity of trading Davis for Morris. What is the point of overpaid Morris if you are not any good? It is not surprising that Littlefield got fired.

By Lee in S. GA

September 13, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

There is one CF on the free agent market that the Braves could have a slight interest in. I certainly hope and prefer this is not the case but the guy lives in Atlanta. It is not Cameron it is Corey Patterson. He has 37 stolen bases this season. He would even come cheaper than Cameron.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Wayne, I hate harping on McCann’s weight so much all the time. It really angers Lew.

But I also know what it is like to have your weight fluctuate and what that does to you. He’s obviously really good as were Gwynn, Kruk, Cecil, Prince, Boomer Wells. But I think he can be better. Some of his shortcomings this year (which are not many) could be alleviated by shedding 20 pounds or so.

If you remember Wickman because he was overweight, really suffered badly up in Coors Field and from early season overuse. I don’t think Wickman’s arm suffered. His body did because of that excess weight. He never seemed to recover after that Marlins/Rockies week early in the season. I think alot of that had to do with poor conditioning and also a poor mental outlook on life.

I look at Jared Lorenzen who used to be the QB at Kentucky. I believe he is far more talented than Eli Manning. I think the Pillsbury Throwboy has more talent in his large right buttcheek than Eli has in his entire body. But I never understood why he never shed weight in college or even now in the pros. That guy could have been so good. He actually made me watch Kentucky football when he was playing. I think that guy is extremely talented. I am excited as hell that he is gonna start this Sunday for the Giants. I will be watching that game.

But I also don’t just beat up on the fat guys. Brodie Croyle at Alabama never lifted a darn weight or put on a pound at Alabama in 5 years of college. He could have been much better and would not have been hurt all the time at Bama if he did and would probably be starting over freaking Huard with the Chiefs if he did. How could the Chiefs entrust their franchise to him when he is not dedicated enough to get himself physically fit enough to withstand the pounding in college, nevermind the brutality of the NFL?

I look at Kelly Johnson the same way. KJ is really good to me but could be better if he bulks up a bit. Maybe then he would give Cox less justifiable excuses to sit him down on the bench because Cox thinks he gets too tired if he does not sit twice a week.

I read Frenchy’s article with DOB the other day and Frenchy is built like a Greek god but he still think he needs to eat better and become much stronger this offseason. Smoltz is built like a brick sh!thouse.

Sometimes, guys like Maddux can get away with it. But did he really? Could the Braves and his other teams have benefited if his conditioning did not make him a 6 inning pitcher?

Maddux only has averaged 6 innings per start in the postseason.

Smoltz has averaged 6.9 innings per start in the postseason.

Smoltz going deeper into games is partly because he is a power pitcher and has a better chance of being more successful in the postseason. Part of it is because he was performing better in games and was allowed to stay in games longer.

But also some of that has to be that he was a much better conditioned athlete than Maddux and could therefore go deeper into games even when pitching in the 7th month of the season. Think about how often Maddux got weary and let up a costly run in the 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th. Can’t remember too many times Smoltz did that in the postseason.

One of the reasons Smoltz has a better postseason record than Maddux is because he could go deeper into games, thus leaving the fate of the team in his hands longer and not pass the responsibility off to relievers who are very inferior as compared to HOFers like Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine.

Even Glavine, who I would consider pretty well conditioned, only pitched 6.23 innings per start in the postseason.

Although Glavine was a finely conditioned athlete, was he a superiorly conditioned athlete like Smoltz? I don’t think so.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Anders-I agree with Shaun on this one. I refuse to blame a young guy, playing out of position, who did the best he could and got an out when it was necessary to get out at least one on that play. I prefer to place blame last night right where it belongs-Andruw Jones. Yet again, another strikeout with a runner at third base. The same crap all over again, all season long. I’m so damn sick and tired of hearing how, “yes, his average is down, but he’s still producing power numbers”. BS-He hit 51 and 41 HR’s the past two years with over 120 RBI each time. He’s producing almost 50% fewer HR’s and I sincerely doubt he will crack 100 RBI in the time left. Some production. To my way of thinking, that’s where last night’s blame and much of the season’s blame resides.

As far as playing young guys next year-y’all should try it sometime-Oh wait-You don’t HAVE any young guys on the horizon, do you? If winning with kids is such a hard thing to do, how come the Braves have succeed bringing up a pretty constant stream of their own young players for so long? How come the DBacks are doing so well this year-or the Tigers last season? I seem to remember our last division was won with 18 rookies playing throuhgout the season. The Mets haven’t seen that many kids arrive in the past decade combined, nor will they in the next decade. Keep snatching up those 40 somethings. Just ask the Giants how that’s been working for them. It’s time to face facts-you won a divison (maybe, but not quite yet) against two teams (Braves and Mets) who have some serious lack of pitching) and two teams(the Marlins and Nationals) who were lucky they didn’t lose 100+ games already. Not only that, but it took you until September before you were able to put distance between those teams, despite how great y’all think you are. Even so, your record in the division is barely .500. Wow, what an accomplishment. Let me know how that works out when you play teams in the playoffs that you haven’t been able to beat this year. I will laugh my considerable @$$ off when the non hitting Padres beat you in the Wild Card round-just like they have 4 of 6 times this year.

By SR

September 13, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, excellent post man. I live out here in San Francisco and lemme tell ya, the Giants have been pitiful this year, though they have been playing a lot better lately. Having said that though, imo everybody will be jumping back on the Sabean bandwagon in the next few years as this pitching staff matures.

He has assembled a bevy of quality arms and the depth is amazing. Reminds me of, gee, I dunno, the Braves many years ago when they actually gave a damn about and emphasized the development of young arms. Oh how I long for the good old days.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Two business men in NY are sitting down for a break in their soon-

to-be new store. As yet, the store isn’t ready — only a few shelves are set up.

One says to the other, “I bet any minute now some tourist is going to walk by, put his face to the window and ask what we’re selling.”

No sooner are the words out of his mouth when, sure enough, a curious hill-billy from the south walks to the window, has a peek, and in a Southern drawl asks, “What’re y’all sellin’ here?” One of the men replies, “Oh! We’re selling a***** here. Without skipping a beat, the southerner says, “Well, I see y’all’re doing really good, you only got two left!”

NEW YORKERS (God bless ‘em) SHOULD NOT MESS WITH SOUTHERNERS.

By N8

September 13, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

DOB

Yesterday at 5:38 you mentioned that Sturtze, Woodward and Dotel weren’t “hard” decisions for the Braves and they more than likely wouldn’t be back.

Didn’t they already release Sturtze a couple of weeks ago?

By Anders

September 13, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Shaun Escobar didn’t look Beltran back to second hard enough to freeze him on Alou’s ground ball. Beltran then crossed over easily on the throw to first. Basic infield play - In NY they even showed Chipper grimacing in the dugout on the play. I realize Beltran then scored on a single but I think Green is swinging a lot more free and easy with a runner on third with one out then on second with one out. I’m sure Lew could give us the run differential of guys scoring from third rather than second with 1 out. I bet it’s 2 to 1. Not a huge deal but my point is that guys don’t just show up in the ML and make it happen.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Yep. Pirates are clearly the worst organization around. Trading young talent for vets. Trading useful vets to contenders for more mediocre vets or non-prospects. It’s hard to find anything good the Pirates have done over the past decade, decade-and-a-half. I guess acquiring Jason Bay is about it off the top of my head.

By Lee in S. GA

September 13, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Braveheart -

Definitely agree that McCann needs to be in better shape. He is too young and plays a tough position to carry that weight around with him.

Then I look at a pitcher like Kyle Farnsworth, whom I consider to be just about the best conditioned pitcher in baseball. He could probably lift Smoltz by the neck and carry him around the field. I don’t under why Farnsworth is not an elite closer.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-I don’t really disagree with you on the weight issue, but you need to view it with a bit of perspective. First of all, McCann is hardly Wicky’s size-they aren’t even comparable. Secondly, Wicky is 38 years old and McCann is 23. Much of Wicky’s problem is age related, in conjunction with his weight. You also need to realize that catching is a much more physically demanding (possibly the MOST physically demanding position) position-constant up and down, foul balls, etc. (and McCann has caught WAY too much this year-Where’s Brayan Pena been?), makes a little extra weight almost necessary-I mean how many ripped catchers have you ever seen ( eg. I refer you to Pudge Rodrigues)? Not many, I’m sure. Add to this the fact that McCann has been operating on a severely damaged ankle for two years (it’s much, much worse than he ever let on)-it’s almost certain he will have to have bones spurs removed surgically in the offseason. I think THAT accounts for any of his supposed deficiencies this year, much more than any weight issues (not to mention that no sane person expected him to hit .333 again this year).

That being said, however, if I were McCann, I would watch real carefully to make sure he didn’t gain an appreciable additional amount. Eating broccoli and laying off the fries would be a good thing. A little bit of defensive coaching would also be a good thing. He does need to learn how to block pitches better, but again, I wonder how much THAT has been impacted by his ankle problems.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Lee, yeah, I think we all wish we were a physical specimen like Farnsworth. Don’t understand why he is not better except that he might be a headcase with a 100 mph fastball that is as straight as an arrow.

By chris

September 13, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I am not a Cox basher. In fact, I think he is an excellent manager. I really do. But I have to give him about a C this year. Tell me if you agree with the following flaws from this year:

1)Somewhat missued the bullpen. Too much trust in Yates. Overly dependent on guys like Moylan. Moylan has been superb. But putting him in on Tuesday with a six-run lead made him unavailbe for yesterday’s game. Acosta’s been excellent but he was the second best option and if Moylan hadn’t pitched the day before, he would have been the go-to guy. I’ve seen this misuse a number of times this year, where how he used the bullpen one game affected the next.

2) Too loyal to certain vets (a common critique of Bobby that I didn’t accept until this year). Why Carlye instead of Reyes on Tuesday? Why so long with Harris instead of Diaz? Why so long with Yates? Why so long with Andruw in the clean-up spot this for much of the year?

3) Misuse of Villareal. He tried him as a spot starter last year and got good results. He might have done well this year but we’ll never know. I’d even prefer him late in the game more than Yates.

Bobby did handle Smotlz suspect shoulder well and broke in another rookie (Escobar) nicely.

As for Scherholz, I give him a B-. His plusses include: 1) Texiera trade— what a stud! 2) Keeping Hudson 3) Releasing Giles 4) The pleasant success stories of Carlye (in the beginning) and Harris

Faults include: 1) Redman 2) Wilson 3) Practically promising we’d get another starter this year but going after no one. I know it was slim pickings and there were financial constraints but something could have been done, perhaps via a trade.

Bottom line: If you would have told me that Chipper would miss 30 games, Hampton would be out for the year, Andruw would hit .220 and have 25 homeruns, Wickman would be released and Gonzalez out for the whole year, I’d say they’d be about a third place team. But some blame rests with Scherholz or Cox (again, who happen to be two of the best at what they do).

Thoughts?

Chris from MD

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Actually, I didn’t see that Escobar was playing out of position. He was guarding the line and playing where any third basemen would play at that point in the game.

He did what he had to do. Beltran would have advanced on any third baseman on that play. If Escobar holds the ball, he doesn’t get an out. I guess you could argue he should have faked the throw but he had no clue Beltran was going after he threw. And if he fakes and Beltran stays, then he doesn’t have time to get the runner at first. Escobar did absolutely nothing wrong on the play. I actually thought it was a pretty good play.

You are also right about Andruw. He has not been productive in spite of his homerun and RBI totals. He’s hitting .220/.315/.414. The reason he has so many homers and RBI is because he’s in there everyday and he’s hitting behind high on-base guys. Context, folks.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Anders-excuse me. I meant Braves and Phillies with serious lack of pitching. Not the Mets. They truly exceed expectations. I’m still amazed, but if I were you, I wouldn’t count on a repeat. Come to think of it, I wouldn’t even count on ElDuque (the Oft Injured) for the playoffs-for the second straight season.

By David O'Brien

September 13, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Lee, you think the fact that Farnsworth is ripped should help make him an elite closer? The guy’s stubborn, shakes off his catcher too much, and throws a straight fastball that good hitters can catch up to, no matter how hard he throws it.

What does size have to do with throwing a fastball or being a good pitcher? Very little, if anything. There are big closers, small closers, big starters, small starters, and everything in between. Some well-conditioned, others not.

There’s really no correlation between being huge and throwing hard. Randy Johnson was 6-10 and skinny as a rail. Used to throw 100. What works for some pitchers, doesn’t for others.

Look at a few of the guys who throw high-90s and are far more successful that Farnsworth, guys like Billy Wagner (about 5-10 and not ripped), Oswalt, about 6 feet and thin, not at all intimiadating), Giants rookie Tim Lincecum (small guy, about Hudson’s size, throws 100 mph).

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Sturtze, Woodward and Dotel weren’t “hard” decisions for the Braves and they more than likely wouldn’t be back.
Didn’t they already release Sturtze a couple of weeks ago?

Seems to me, that would make the descision that much easier. Or, to put it another way, not hard.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I didn’t mean out of position on that play, but that third base was not his best or most natural position. I think he made the play just like he should have and that Beltran just made a good base running play.

Anders-As far as not looking him back HARD enough ???????? Is that anything like concentrating on the Wild Card? It’s kind of comical, actually. I’ve gotten the Mets’ feed this series. Hernandez, Darling and the other Guy were laughing their butts off over Pat Burrell’s assertion that the Phillies had given up on the division and were “going for” the Wild Card. Seems the Mets’ announcers think it’s an extremely stupid concept as well.

By wg

September 13, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

DOB. I could’t agree more about Edgar. As a lifelong Braves fam living in Red Sox Nation, I have been an Edgar fan since he came into the league and was extactic when the Braves landed him and had the idiots in Boston pick up a portion of his salary. He is a clutch and class guy but Yunel is the future and next year should be (barring a sophmore slump) better. Who do you think needs a shortstop and has a #2 or #3 pitcher who will fit in? None of the free agents seem to be especially attractive and a trade would seemingly make more sense.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Anders,

If he had looked Beltran back, he wouldn’t have gotten Alou. It was a hard hit ball on the line he had to back up on and make a long throw, and the play was fairly close.

By Wayne in Utah

September 13, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Braveheart/Lew: My comments on McCann’s weight are based on personal knowledge of what an extra 20 lbs can do to you. It can seriously affect the knees and ankles. Imagine carring around a pack with an extra 20 lbs. (not really the same thing, but close).

Years ago when I went from 245 to 195, the difference was amazing.

Again, not trying to be too picky, but I think McCann can really help himself with a smart winter regimen.

By DAP

September 13, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

the giants are my favorite target for a trade as well. they probably wont give up davis, but they might. i think they are more likely to give up a young pitcher.

the reason why is that thier rotation, being as young as it is, is set. its good. thier lineup and position players, aint. they are old and decrepit. they hit like it and they field like it. so, if youve got 5 great young starters, and abunch of old guys, you will do what every GM does. you deal from your strengths to shore up your weakness.

they will want escobar bad, but they may take renteria, who still has many great years of hitting and fielding in him. they might also want martin prado, matt diaz, a young bullpen arm, cormier, carlyle, or a guy like brayan pena.

the giants seem like agood target for us.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Maybe you can enlighten Anders. You saw the play in person. No way Escobar had time to look Beltran back then throw out Alou, right? I was surprised at how close the play was. Escobar did what he had to do. Beltran just made a smart base-running play taking advantage of a hard-hit ball down the line.

By David O'Brien

September 13, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Chris, I agree with almost everything you said, and your grades of Cox and Schuerholz are fair. Only thing I’d correct you on, is that Schuerholz really did pursue a starter. Did he make some mistakes in doing so, maybe some timing issues or too reluctant to let go this guy or that guy until too late? Perhaps. I haven’t heard any such details yet, but could during next month at playoffs or later at winter meetings. But I do know he and Frank Wren pursued several.

I think they should have put aside doubts or concerns about Wells’ clubhouse presence or his per-game pay (it was fairly high) and signed him for that last stretch, when things were desperate and he was available. They really should have tried, and I don’t know that they did, at all.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, Lee in S. GA, Braveheart

Yeah. Carlton Fisk was actually bigger than McCann and you see how that weight cost him so many games. Gary Carter also wasn’t a small guy. Yogi Berra probably weighed a lot for his height and his day.

By robyn

September 13, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

What about trying to sign Andruw for a 1 year 15 million deal and then trade HIM for starting pitching. San Diego with their offensive woes would love to have him. Maybe Andruw for Peavy?

By wg

September 13, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

I have been reading and agree with most of the comments about Escobar not having much time to make the play on Alou, but WHAT ABOUT NOT WALKING GREENE? I think Cox blew that one. Greene has killed the Braves all year and neithr Greene nor LoDuca is especially fast so going to set up the double play was my thought all along.

By The Piece

September 13, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Hey, Dave, Great post, as always.

You mentioned Moylan as part of the recently more reliable bullpen.

I know that ROY voters probably typically favor everyday players, or starting pitchers, but will Moylan receive ANY Rookie of the Year consideration/attention? Without question his stats are phenomenal, and worthy of at least SOME attention. He sure seems to fly under the radar as far as receiving any national attention.

By Braves Fan 79

September 13, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

I dont know about trading Edgar. I cringe at the thought of once again our main backup infileders being orr and woodcrap. It will be like the first half of the season all over again where we threw our crap lineup out there every 3 or 4 days. (and people wonder why we only have 3 sweeps!) Hopefully we keep prado, abyar comes back, and we have ANYONE BUT woodcrap as a backup. Did i ever mention how much i hate that guy?
JS: NO MORE EX MET RETARDS!!

By bravesandconfused

September 13, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

So, the Braves didn’t really want Glavine last November? Didn’t Glavine,seeing that the Braves wouldn’t be able to free up any money until the winter meetings at the earliest decide to stay with New York? Wasn’t it Glavine that gave NY his word he’d let them know before the meetings? Glavine wanted to come back. The Braves wanted him back. The timing and lack of financial flexibility doomed the deal before it ever started. As I recall,Glavine made his decision the day before the Braves could officially make him an offer without giving up compensation to their rivals. I would love to see that work differently this year. Bring Glav home for 1 year. Let him and Smoltz push each other. Let him mentor Chuck James. And yes, make the Mets find someone to fill out their rotation. So Glavine’s over forty,big deal. He’s not a power pitcher. He’s never had much time on the DL and it shouldn’t be a problem next year. Look at his numbers for this year and tell me the Braves wouldn’t have been better with him. If you don’t see that…your and idiot.

By Lee in S. GA

September 13, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Fisk and Carter did not have an ankle injury in question? That is the primary reason of why I am questioning his weight. Don’t know about Yogi. Too young to have watched that fossil play.

Not saying that is the cause of it. But it could only help his ankle to shed a few pounds.

By Greg in TN

September 13, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Afternoon denizens…

Trying to bust back from a work induced hiatus from the Braves/MIB blog. We’ve experienced a disappointing week in what has been a disappointing season. It seems to me that some of the demons from 2006 reared their ugly heads again this year. Inconsistant offense and pitching (both starting and relief, which is doubly disappointing since we had loftier hopes coming into the season), injuries (Hampton’s injury was the biggest blow, IMO. It wasn’t his fault at all, but not having him in the lineup was the first domino to fall) and bad breaks at times.

I think that JS was still handcuffed by the TW imposed payroll restrictions in the makeup of the 2007 roster. I do think he’ll get the flexibility in future seasons to get some help when needed (for example, the Teixiera trade this year) and down the road, I think we’ll be a better team because of it. I don’t see a dramatic increase in salary, however I don’t think we need one to be competitive.

The Redman signing was a shot in the dark, and it didn’t work. I don’t blame JS for that, certainly. At the time, we had just lost Hampton to injury and there were no other realistic options.

Sturtze’s signing didn’t work either, to me that was more of a gamble and I think the front office overestimated his ability to bounce back.

AJ’s season is well chronicled. We all hoped he’d have the monster year many guys do in their walk season. He did knock in 86 runs to this point in the year, but homer numbers are down. He has to hit two more homers in the season to match his ‘99 homer totals, which is woefully low for a clean-up hitter. He and a lot of others really struggled with hits when it really counted, with RISP and in similar clutch situations.

James, Davies, Reyes, Cormier and Carlyle were hot and cold in the rotation. I agree with the sentiment that James will continue to struggle until he gets a third pitch that he can locate consistantly. I think Reyes will pitch well in the future as soon as he gets over his penchant to put guys on base with walks.

That being said, I’m really bullish on our future. Soriano had struggled, but he has been pitching well again and hasn’t given up either a homer or a walk since the tater he gave up against the Phillies on August 13th. I really really love the work Peter Moylan has done out of the bullpen this year. He carried the bullpen for a stretch when everyone else was largely ineffective. KJ had a solid year at second base, Glenn Hubbard deserves a raise for his work with KJ in the offseason. I’m also really happy with the turnaround in Tim Hudson. This was the guy we were anticipating when we sent Charles Thomas to Oakland, and I’m happy for the guy that he has pitched so well for us this year.

I have enjoyed watching Escobar play. DOB, I’m really not convinced that we can get the type of starting pitching in what is a very pitching thin market that Renteria should bring, but if it works out and we can get a solid starter, so much the better for us.

I am cautiously optimistic that Hampton can return and be effective, but we can’t count on that to happen. Smoltz will be another year older as will Chipper, however we have a pretty interesting blend of youth and experience, and much of that youth will be starting to get into their primes with another year of experience under their belts.

By Wade

September 13, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Escobar will not only be the next Braves’ star but the next MLB star! He’ll take some glitter from Reyes’ star as soon as next year….Just you wait & see

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Lee in S. GA,

Here’s something from baseballlibrary.com:

His average slipped to .246 in 1973 and he missed the first three weeks of the 1974 season after a foul tip off the bat of Joe Torre struck his groin in spring training. His season ended early when his knee was seriously injured in a home-plate collision with Cleveland’s Leron Lee on June 28.

By Braves Fan 79

September 13, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

CHRIS: no man, signing redmen was mistake #3. Mistake #1 was not signing Glavine back. #2 was signing woodcrap. As much as redmen hurt this team woodcrap being on the roster the whole season has hurt even worse!
Some people might not agree with me, but your probably the same pple that said on here in march and april “escobar is unproven, we dont need him, let him get better in the minors, woodward and orr can do the job” Yeah….how did that work out for us!??

By TampaBrave

September 13, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Agree that Cox blew it by not walking Green. You have to give yourself a chance to get out of the inning without them scoring. Knowing that Wagner loomed and the tail end of the lineup was coming up, Cox should have done more to stop the run from scoring in the bottom of the 8th. Just really poor. I love BC but find myself at odds with him this year. He has overused the bullpen, at times unnecessarily. He stuck with cold players way too long when he should have replaced them. He has made simple strategy errors. He has not used very many opportunities to manufacture a run when it was badly needed. Understand that this is a slugging team, but have to be able to do the little things sometimes. I hope he gets it together for 08.

By DAP

September 13, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

I do think McCann could probably lose a few pounds, but definetly not 20lbs. thats alot. to me, he doesnt look to bad. i think if he loses 5-10 pounds and keeps himself healthy he will be fine. his defensive troubles recently have more to do with his bad ankle than anything. after he get it fixed this offseason, he will be an awesome offensvie force again. he will probably win the NL silver slugger again this year anyways.

and whoever posted the link to his picture when he was drafted to show how big he was, keep in mind that he was right out of high school when he was drafted! 18 or 19 years old out of high school is going to and should look alot different than 23 and in the majors. im glad hes alot bigger. if he was still that small he would have been squished by now and we would be looking for a new catcher.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave,

So, you walk Green. The Mets still have two outs left to get that run home from third. Except now they have an additional runner on which gives them a better chance to score more than one run.

If you want to question anything, question why they didn’t bring in Royce Ring to face Green. Green has been awful against lefties this season.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Lew Looking a guy back “Hard enough” is actually baseball vernacular if you’ve ever played it. The idea is to not just glance or give a cursory look but to stare him down to freeze the runner or get him heading in the other direction. Especailly with someone with Alou’s lack of speed running. Being able to process this in the heat of battle takes experience at the ML level - even for budding stars. I apologize for not explaining that earlier but I assumed you would know this being as you advised me you watch like 600 games a year. As for your earlier post about not blaming the young guy while he was playing out of position - that was my exact argument yesterday! Having 4 young guys playing every day will catch up with you over the course of a ML season.How can you now dismiss it when it actually happened within 24 hours?

Shaun Alou was out by at least 3 steps. He hit a rocket to third.The guy’s 41 with two flat tires. Nobody plays harder but his legs are shot. In Escobars youthful exuberance having made the great pick he wheeled and threw immediately to first. Did anybody else watch this game? geez.

By The Cisco Kid

September 13, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Since Smoltz said the Braves are not as good as the Mets, does this include the Padres, Phillies, Rockies, Dodgers, Cubs and Brewers as well??? They are all ahead of us in the WC race.

By sammy miller

September 13, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. what about that cat Sam Miller at short? Heard he looks like Chewbaca at the plate and on the base path!

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 13, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

SD is playing awful and we have not done anything about it….. god keeps giving us chances and we are just not cooperating.

By flange1

September 13, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

It is interesting to look back on the moves JS made this year. To me the release of Giles was a good move. The trade of Langerhans was not. Waited too long.

The signings of Wilson, Woodward and Sturtze were all questionable at the time and look worse now.

While Redman stunk, at the time his signing was an aggressive move. It failed, but not a bad move.

The McBride trade is still a question to me. To get basically nothing for a former #1 draft choice is questionable.

The Tex and Mahay trade was great. Aggressive and great.

The Dotel trade was also aggressive. Doesn’t look real good right now, but still ok.

The Royce Ring trade WILL be great. Hate to give up Startup, but I think Ring will be better.

Some good moves, a couple questionable but all in all a pretty good season for JS.

For next season, he needs to be better….

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Yes, I watched the game. No way Escobar had time to fake or look the runner back. The play was a lot closer than I thought it would be. He had to back up to make the play, so it was a long throw. It wasn’t a routine grounder to third.

By Randall

September 13, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

It seems a no brainer, Renteria has a lot of value in the N.L and you have probably a better and more useful long term guy than Saltalamachia. When the trade was beeing discussed it was Yunel I didn’t want to see traded. For instance Bronson Arroyo in Cinci has great potential and he could be affordable, say Edgar staight up. I think they coul use a SS of E.R caliber, doubtful any one in the A.L. would consider it knowing that his only tough year was in Baston.

By chris

September 13, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

I, too, am very excited about ‘08. This is how I see the makeup of the team. Admitedly, this is a wish list:

SP— Smoltz, Hudson, new third starter, James, and a fifth starter battle between Hampton, Cormier, Vilareal, Reyes, and Boyer. The losers compete in the pen or go to the minors for more seasoning.

RP— Soriano, Gonzalez, Moylan, Mahay (is he under contract for next year, Acosta, Devine, and someone from above.

Other possibilities: Ring, Stockman, Lerew

Released or Traded: Poronto, Yates, Dotel, Carlye

Offense: Diaz and Blanco platoon in LF, new CF, Frenchy, Chipper, Escobar, Johnson, Texierra.

Bench: LF platoon, back up C (preferably Pena)Prado, Thorman, and a battle between Franco (non-roster invitee?), Orr, Aybar, and a new guy.

Released or traded: Woodward, Renteira, Harris

In other words, very little needs to be done beyond finding a 3rd starter and replacing Andruw. They have Renteria and some servicable pitching to offer (Cormier, Villareal, etc).

Chris from MD

By Glen

September 13, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Great stuff.

If I could pick one player to play CF for the Braves next year (all things considered: salary, etc.), it would be Shane Victorino. Man we he be a perfect fit… can hit at the top of the lineup, will be a gold-glover in my opinion. Too bad he plays for a divisional foe, which reduces the odds of it happening from extremely unlikely to absolutely no chance.

Why do I feel like Rowand will be in Atlanta next year and Victorino will be playing CF for the Phillies?

Persoanlly, I think that all those years of drafting in the last 5 picks of the first round is catching up with the Braves (the price of success). Sure, I love that they have developed McCann, Frenchy, Yunel, etc. But you just can’t find pitching propsects with real upside there.

By Curt

September 13, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

Since we are talking about young stars in some of the last few blogs, what do you think will happen with Francoeur’s contract situation, will we sign him to a long term deal like McCann? Or will he go through arbitration again? What do you think they will do about Kelly and Yunel?

By Anders

September 13, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun I never said it was routine - I said it was a rocket. He made a nice play but had plenty of time. They chronicled it on SNY - maybe Lew can attest to this as he was watching his favorite clowns apparently. Alou took three steps after Tex caught the ball. Hernandez made a big deal out of it -which it was. Then they cut to a replay of Chipper in the dugout and you could see him grimace knowing the kid made a mistake. They also had a replay focused on Beltran and you could see he hardly moved back towards second because he never felt at risk.I’m not looking to crucify Escobar over it, but the facts are the facts.

By KC

September 13, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

EFRIM: “Figgins is good, Escobar is loved there, Kotchman is a light hitting first baseman. No need for any of them.”

No need for any of them? Huh???

First of all, in terms of plausibility… I agree that my post was nonsense. No, I don’t think it’s going to happen.

But in terms what our needs are… I’m sorry, did you really just say we don’t need a guy like Figgins or K.Escobar???

After watching the Mets last night, how could any Braves fan not want to see the Braves add some speed and ability to manufacture runs?

And clearly we could use another top-of-rotation caliber starter. So I’m afraid I don’t understand where you’re coming from with a statement like “No need for any of them”.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Shaun BTW-Had the Braves walked Green Randolph would have sent Green. He’s sneaky fast. Doesn’t steal a lot but he gets the job done. Especially with a kid behind the plate in his first MLB game - Another wart on McCanns game. You Have to run for him late in close games. Not unusual for catchers but he’s kind of young to already be in that category.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Believe what the SNY guys (or gals) tell you. I know what I saw. There is no way Escobar could have done anything different without possibly allowing Alou to reach and not get an out.

Also, about rookies, do you think they never play baseball until they reach the big leagues? That’s the way you talk—like they have no idea what they’re doing until they’ve played a while in the bigs.

By mo in the boonies

September 13, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

I watched the game last night on ESPN, and * Lew and Shaun,* Orel Hershiser, who was a pretty good pitcher in his time said, “that Escobar had made a rookie mistake. Said he should have looked hard at Beltran, and made him stay on second, before throwing to 1st.” Not too difficult to do, pitchers do it all the time, when a guy looks like he is trying to steal. And it only takes a second. And like Anders said, Alou is not the fastest runner on the Mets team, there was time to do both: look Beltran back, and make the out at 1st. I know we all want to make Escobar look like the second coming of Christ, but he is still a green rookie, and needs a little more seasoning, before he is really ready to take over for Renteria, or anyone else on the team. He made almost the same mistake the other night in a crucial time in the game,

While the Braves are looking for starting pitchers, why can’t they look in Japan, other teams do?

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Not going to get involved in speculation on whether Green would steal second. Have a hard time believing he would in that situation, but okay. Again, just because the catchers a rookie doesn’t mean he has no idea how to throw a ball to second base.

Regarding McCann, so he’s slow. Players have strengths and weaknesses. What is your point?

By flange1

September 13, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Let’s cut McCann a bit of slack there NY boy, ne has a bum ankle….

By TampaBrave

September 13, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

ANders

If green steals, then we walk Laduca. 95% of catchers are slow, even when they are young.

Shaun One run was too many. That was the point. 1 is the same as 5 in that situation. Probability doesn’t favor us with bottom of lineup coming up and Wagner ready. We had to set up a double play, regardless. Plus, Wagner’s had our number lately. Anything COULD happen, but not likely. And true to form, we did not get a sniff in the 9th.

By David O'Brien

September 13, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Curt, yes I think they’ll sign Francoeur to a long-term contract, but don’t know when that’ll be. There’s absolutely no rush to do so, unless they’re concerned it’ll end up costing them more. It’s the exception more than the rule when teams sign players to long-term contracts before they’re even into arbitration. Very much the exception.

What are they going to do with Yunel? Dude, he’s got LESS THAN ONE YEAR OF SERVICE. That’s not even on the radar yet, what they do with his contract. Total non-issue.

By Bob, Journalist

September 13, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t buy into “We’re not as good as them” but maybe that’s the attitude that causes you to lose close games.

It wasn’t too long ago that I got the impression that Tim Hudson might have been expressing a similar attitude … dismissed it as my reading too much into his comments … though I thought body language supported it.

Oh woe is us … expressing frustration in hindsight is sometimes best left in the shower … maybe part of leadership is recognizing weaknesses and addressing them as they emerge rather than sagely bemoaning them after the fact.

It’s hard to say what “They won every game they had to win, close games, and that’s why they’re where they’re at” means … for surely there are no specific games you have to win, only at the end you must have won more than anyone else in the division … and certainly they haven’t all of their close games.

There’s no question that individually and collectively, the Braves could have played better … and so too could each and every player and every team, methinks … that’s likely to always be true. Ol’ Pete Browning hit .457 back in 1887, but I’ll bet he could have done better.

No, if they’re playing better than we, look to the coaching and managing … they’re not better but we may need somebody to show us how to best use what we’ve got.

Carol had another minor procedural surgery today … all went well and she wanted me to express her appreciation for all the well wishes, kind words, thoughts and prayers that we’ve received … ditto for me!!

It’s already been a long day … I’m going to relax and enjoy the rest of an “off” day!

Someone remind me to take issue with Anders’ perspective from the previous Blog regarding Ted, playoffs and performance … that was obviously written without thought or perhaps I misread it.

What i just said wasn’t supposed to make any sense … just my way of saying hi!

Later …

By David O'Brien

September 13, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Bravesandconfused, you going to take one columnist’s version of the story and believe the Braves didn’t want Glavine? That’s absolute BS. Braves wanted him and said as much, they just couldn’t clear up cash in time to make him an offer before the winter meetings, or before he decided he owed it to Mets to make up his mind.

Or did you not hear or believe they were really trying to trade Hudson to clear up cash? Because Hudson heard it, and no one with the Braves ever told him otherwise, because it was true. Fortunately for them, it didn’t happen. Good as Glav was this year, you’d rather have Hudson under contract, wouldn’t you?

Of course, you’d rather have both, but that’s another story. And also another problem with that NY column — if the Braves had had Glavine, they likely wouldn’t have been able to keep Hudson, so they’d have been in basically same boat this season.

Their problem was expecting too much from Hampton and getting nothing, and expecting too much from Davies. They did, and still do, need to get another No. 3-caliber starter, or better obviously, if they can.

And by the way, don’t be surprised, despite what NY papers reported about it being Mets-or-retire next year, if Glavine actually speaks to the Braves once again. I won’t be surprised. Haven’t heard anything to that effect yet, but I won’t be surprised.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Anders-You smug idiot. I understand the concept of looking a runner back. Probably did it myself long before you ever picked up a baseball, yourself. The thing I didn’t quite get was the “hard enough” part. Are you trying to say that Escobar didn’t look mean enough, or didn’t try to scare off Beltran? He did look him back and had to throw quickly to get an out, which he did. Did it perhaps occur to you that maybe Beltran just made a heads up play? No, of course not. That wouldn’t make the Braves look bad enough for you-which is your entire purpose, anyway.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Shaun It was the catchers 1st ML game! Go ahead run on third. Guy takes off for second, you have to at least glance at third before throwing and then release. That’s a lot to ask of a kid who’s probably pretty nervous back there. Plus beltran had already run and made it easy with no one on base.

TampaBrave If they walk Loduca then you have to pitch to Gotay who runs pretty well and probably can’t be doubled up. You just played into Randolph’s hands - he cleared his slow catcher out of the way.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

hey Anders-Maybe if we stare at you hard enough, will you leave? We can always hope. Maybe we should have staring practice right after we have our needed bunting practice. Look real mean now, Anders is watching.

By Jay

September 13, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

DOB

It’s not “one columnists version of the story,” when it contains direct quotes from Tom Glavine.

He even said he was bothered by the Braves saying they needed to “free up money” in november and then added 8 million in season with the Tex trade.

Glavine alluded that he felt there was some stalling by the Braves after he told Cox he would play for less money.

With quotes from Glavine and Wagner, one of Glavine’s close friends on the Mets, Joel Sherman has NO reason to summarize his own opinion as to what went on.

It was Wagner that said he believes JS doesn’t like Glavine and that there is some bad blood between the two of them.

Glavine in other articles has said the Mets would be his first choice if he decides to play next season because he doesn’t want to go through that situation again with Braves and his wife was VERY annoyed at the Braves also.

There are a lot of fences to be mended for Glavine to return to Atlanta.

COO Jeff Wilpon, who has said Glavine is one of his close friends, will work with Glavine on his contract. He even went as far as saying he would give Glavine a “Clemens type” deal to only show up on days he pitches if Glavine wants to be close to home.

These are Glavine own words and his friends words. Not some made up story for the NY Post

By Thrillhouse44

September 13, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

Anders reminds me of Scott Thorman. He tries hard, but man, does he su*k!

By Anders

September 13, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Lew You berate the use of the word “Hard”” by me, which is a common reference and I’m smug? Lew, you always seem to cloud the issue with non relevant items rather than deal with reality. I’m not trying to make the Braves look bad. But then again you felt that way when I warned you about Dotel, and when I said Wickman was a waste and while getting Tex was a good move I felt the Braves still didn’t have enough pitching to win the division, plus I speculated (I assume that’s allowed) that the division was gone and their only hope was the WC .. All before it was popular to do so on this blog. And now yesterday I mention how having young guys on the field, no matter how good they are comes with a price and it’s proven out right in front of our eyes that very same night and I’m trying to make the Braves look bad? Sorry if the truth hurts Lew.

Shaun How many rookies in any sport say “The game is much faster at this level” when they make the big team? Umm How about all of them. To think a guy showing up from Richmond to the big leagues just slides behind the plate like any other game is a little naive.

In case you guys didn’t notice -Randolph was going for the throat last night. He brought in multiple pitchers by batter in the 8th like it was a playoff game. He hadn’t done that once this year. It backfired but it said a lot to me on how seriously he was taking that game last night. Trust me - Green would have been off and running.

By flange1

September 13, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Jay, Sorry but you don’t get what DOB said. If you remember when all this was playing out the Braves were owned by Time Warner. NO MORE MONEY COULD BE SPENT. They tried to trade Hudson and Giles to Baltimore and other places to free up cash to sign Glavine.

Glavine set a deadline, then signed EARLY with the Mets.

The Braves were sold to Liberty, and then more money was injected to the team so the Tex trade could happen.

If you or Glavine don’t understand that then you are both hard headed and not too bright.

By Jay

September 13, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

The Braves were going to trade Hudson to sign Glavine?

That makes no sense. Hudson may have been offered over the summer but I really doubt it was to make room for Glavine. That makes no sense for the Braves to even consider that.

The only reason to add Glavine would be as a third starter. Not a number 2.

And JS is full of it if he wants to say he needed to trade Hudson’s 8.5 million deal when Glavine would have signed for 6 million because he WANTED to win 300 with the Braves. Then JS turns around and adds 9 million in TEX.

Where did the extra cash come from? Ticket sales? NOT

Its bull, JS doesn’t like Glavine, end of story.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

Jay-It’s really a moot point anyway. Glavine would be a short term quick fix. What the Braves need is a young pitcher or two where they could have some long term consistency. Smoltz just isn’t going to last forever. Reyes may be great, but it isn’t right now. Chuck James may well learn a slider or sinker, but he hasn’t yet. Hampton may or may not give us reliable innings. It’s time to infuse some young blood into the system, even if it means not winning the division for another year or so. We can’t do what the Mets have done and expect career performances by the likes of El Duque and hope that Hampton, like Pedro, can come back and be solid-for how much longer, if at all. Unless the Braves truly feel that the young guns in A and rookie ball will be the next Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux, they need to find some good young pitchers-not a bunch of old men who were once great and are still decent. When pitchers like Glavine discuss the possibility of retirement in the very near future, they can be nothing else but a temporary bandaid. That is not what will rebuild this team’s pitching.

By flange1

September 13, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Here we go again, one of our Mets fans has graced us with his presence and given us his infallible knowledge of baseball..

Lew, how dare you CONSIDER to argue with someone who knows all, even that someone who is old and can’t run would steal a base if he were pitched around.

I think we should all be quiet and just listen to these brillant Mets fans tell us how to live our lives and play baseball.

They have won lots and lots and will continue to win forever….

By Jay

September 13, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

FLANGE1

GLAVINE DID NOT SIGN EARLY WITH THE METS. ARE YOU KIDDING!!!

HE PROMISED THE METS HE WOULD GIVE THEM A YES OR NO ANSWER BEFORE THANKSGIVING. HE DIDN’T SIGN UNTIL DECEMBER.

THE ONLY REASON THEY WAITED WAS BECAUSE GLAVINE IS CLOSE TO THE OWNERS SON JEFF WILPON.

THERE WAS AN UPROAR IN NY BECAUSE MINAYA WANTED TED LILLY TO REPLACE GLAVINE BUT HE COULDN’T MAKE THE OFFER BECAUSE JEFF WOULDN’T LET HIM AND TOLD HIM TO WAIT FOR GLAVINE.

IN THE MEANTIME, MECHE AND LILLY WERE SIGNED AND THE NY MEDIA WAS KILLING THE METS FOR WASTING TIME ON GLAVINE WHEN HE WAS DEAD SET ON SIGNING WITH THE BRAVES

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT????

By Lew

September 13, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Jay-You’re absolutely wrong on that one. Hudson, who was coming off of his second sub par season with the Braves and the worst year of his entire career, WAS shopped to try to free money up for Glavine. Hell, we all sat here and discussed it ad naseum for weeks prior to Glavine’s signing with the Mets. There were numerous blogs devoted entirely to that exact subject. As it turned out, keeping Hudson was an excellent move. But make no mistake, trading Hudson to free up Glavine $$$ was a definite occurrence.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

flange 1 Shhhhhh. Lew’s preparing another diatribe.

By TampaBrave

September 13, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Anders How else can I say this? Last night 1 run was 1 too many considering the matchups for the Braves in the 9th inning. I don’t care how fast Goat boy is, at least we have a force at home and a chance to get out of it with a DP, though more difficult..

By Jay

September 13, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

LEW-

If thats true then I have to eat crow and applaud JS for not signing Glavine because that is just a crazy thought.

I like Glavine but I would trade him to the Braves for Hudson TONIGHT.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

Anders-So you want it clear? You parse words constantly. Like the terms “concentrate on” and “go for”. Now it’s “look him back hard”. Whatever. I don’t care for you. I don’t care for your attitude. I don’t care for your ideas of what is the right way to play baseball and I damn well don’t think you know half as much about the game as you profess. I still have no idea what you hope to achieve by coming here and arguing with we Braves’ fans. Damn few people here respect you or your opinions. You’ve spent an entire evening and now the following day arguing interminably about one aspect of one play in a game that made no difference whatsoever in anyones’ scheme of things. All you’ve mananged to do today is to p** off a lot of Braves fans and beat an unmoving equine until it a meaningless piece of meat. Enough already. Go home and love your wife and kids, or something. Go watch reruns of Law and Order or Seinfeld. We are damned tired of you and your crap. Clear enough for you now?

By Anders

September 13, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Jay Stay the course brother - you’re right. Most Met fans reached the point where they felt the Mets should pull the offer because he was sitting in Atlanta waiting for the phone to ring from JS which it never did. I mentioned yesterday about his relationship with Wilpon. No way he’s gonna screw that up. Plus after thinking about it over night I can’t see him taking less than the $13 mil he can now get from the Mets to go back to Atlanta beause of the way the treated him. Especially if the Mrs. is steamed at the Braves. How’d you like to have that conversation. “Oh Honey I’m going back to the team where the GM crapped all over me, even in writing, and the good news is I’m making $5 mil less. Yeah, let’s go to Stone Mountain and celebrate! We can ride up the side of a rock”.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Actually Jay-He promised the Mets an answer before the Winter meetings-not Thanksgiving. He did sign with them somewhat in advance of those meetings. He did this so they would know whether or not they (the Mets) needed to replace him. The Braves were unable to clear up the payroll from miserly Time Warner-who steadfastly refused to increase payroll due to the pending sale of the Braves. Why exactly are you so upset? He didn’t sign with the Braves last year and he’s not the answer this year, either. Time to move on (and take Anders with you when you do-please).

By bravesandconfused...even more

September 13, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, Did you and I make the same point? Or am I more confused than I thought? Oh wait…I see I left out the part about it only working if the Braves could have both.(Glavine and Hudson)The hazards of blogging when I should be working.

By Shaun

September 13, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Anders,

I don’t think the Braves would insert a catcher they weren’t at least moderately confident.

Okay, Randolph was going for the throat. What’s your point? Just to come on the Braves blog and give a “hooray” for your Mets. Okay, good job. Congratulations.

Actually, Sammons made a great throw. He stole the base on Acosta.

But anyway, again, I’m not sure what game your were watching. Escobar was a good 8’ behind third base when he made his throw. Don’t know what he could have done differently, period.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

The Braves were going to trade Hudson to sign Glavine? That makes no sense. Hudson may have been offered over the summer but I really doubt it was to make room for Glavine. That makes no sense for the Braves to even consider that. The only reason to add Glavine would be as a third starter. Not a number 2. And JS is full of it if he wants to say he needed to trade Hudson’s 8.5 million deal when Glavine would have signed for 6 million because he WANTED to win 300 with the Braves. Then JS turns around and adds 9 million in TEX. Where did the extra cash come from? Ticket sales? NOT Its bull, JS doesn’t like Glavine, end of story.

Jay, Jay, Jay. you are 10 months or so behind the rest of us. Seriously. The Braves were owned by the cheapskates AOL/Time Warner last winter. They had labeled the Atlanta Braves the Discontinued Operations and Non-Core Assets. Seriously, they did.

They were selling the Braves as a tax break and wanted no additional expenses that would destroy the sale of the team. Thus, they had come up with a stupid $80 million dollar salary cap for the team.

To get Glavine, they had to get rid of Hudson to free up money. While trying to figure out how to get rid of Hudson and Giles so they could get Glavine, the Mets became impatient and demanded Glavine give the Mets an answer. Glavine became tired of waiting around and signed with the Mets. Trading Tim Hudson would have been complicated and would take time to get the right deal done for the maximum value for the Braves.

JS is not full of it. JS has been pretty darn honest that he had been placed in financial handcuffs by that terrible ownership group AOL/TW. They had that $80 mil cap placed on them by their owners. They had to wiggle around under it by jettisoning Hudson in order to get Glavine.

If they had signed Glavine to go with Smoltz and James, the Braves might have been better off because they might have added a good pitching prospect or two in exchange for Hudson. Smoltz, Glavine, Chuck, and a quality arm or two added in a Hudson trade may have been better this year than Hudson, Smoltz, James and the collection of garbage we had otherwise pitching after those guys.

The facts are the facts Jay. AOL/TW absolutely sucked. They gave us a retarded $80 mil salary cap. No it really would not have made sense to trade Hudson if the ownership group gave a crap about the team winning. But they didn’t. The Braves were the Discontinued Operations and Non Core Assets to AOL/TW. Those are the facts Jay.

WHERE DID THE EXTRA CASH COME FROM?!?!?!?!?

Jay, seriously, wake the F up. The team was sold and a new ownership group came in. Liberty Media is not a good ownership either but they made more of a financial commitment.

Also, Hampton got injured yet again and the Braves collected insurance money for him that could be used to get Tex.

Also, when they got Tex, there were only two months left for the season. So tex would not be that expensive on a two month basis for this season. For next season, he would be slotted into Andruw’s big salary slot since Andruw would no longer be here.

That money was not available when Glavine wanted to sign because then the Braves would have had to pay a full season’s worth of money to Andruw, Glavine, and at the time it looked like they might have to pay the entire season’s worth of money to Hampton.

Also, ticket sales and attendance are up, you snotty smartass. WAY UP actually. Attendance is up by about 3000 fans a game this year. 3000 fans times 81 games times $30 per fan spent at the game tells you that the Braves made an extra $7 million dollars this year based upon increaded attendance as opposed to last season.

Seriously, dude, don’t be giving the team’s beat reporter and fans who follow these things closely lectures on things you don’t have a freaking clue about because some NYC reporter spouted off on things on an uninformed basis because the Braves were in town and he needed to stir the sh!t to sell papers.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

tampaBrave Goat Boy!! That is a classic! I must say everyday I get a good laugh from someone on here. You see Lew I come here because I don’t mind the jabs at my team and I appreciate the humor. Again, living in a two team town you get a thick skin and a quick jab. I can understand why you’re not used to this because all you want to surround yourself with is those that agree with you or at the least acquiesce to your thoughts. Me on the other hand, I enjoy the sparring. Perhaps you are the unmoving equine that I have beaten into a meaningless piece of meat? If so, just say so and I will leave you alone. BTW- Since you brought up syndicated shows, in case you missed my alert the other night TBS is carrying “The Office” now. I highly reccomend it if you haven’t seen it.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Jay, you are an idiot. You know the uninformed sensationalistic things the NYC tabloids sell to you and that’s it. Have you ever stopped to consider that teams like the Braves don’t have all the money in the world to toss around and that to get things done financially, they need to wiggle around and figure out a way to get her done? No, you have zero concept of that. The Mets and Yankees can make mistake after mistake after mistake and just throw money at it to fix it. But when the Braves get screwed by Hampton getting hurt yet again, the Braves find themselves royally screwed because they don’t have millions of dollars laying about to fix the problems.

Well, actually they do. Unfortunately, the GM JS is not allowed access to that money because his terrible ownership group AOL/Time Warner were terrible cheapskates who labeled this team the Non Core Assets and Discontinued Operations of Atlanta. Imagine a corporation like AOL/TW claiming poverty. Imagine that. But that’s what they did. It is amazing that the Braves are still as competitive as they are. The only reason they are is because of Sir John and Cox.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Anders- I don’t watch sitcoms (even those recommended by David O’Brien). Why turn on the tube for humor when I can read your inane posts and those from other Trolls? Lot’s fewer commercials and no canned laugh track. Of course, there are better and more creative writers working for the sitcoms. Probably because they actually live life without their heads up their assorted behinds like you Mets fans.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Serious question. A team can collect insurance money on a guy that is hurt but it’s not career ending? I’ve honestly never heard of that. Are you sure? I remember when Mo Vaughn got hurt for the Mets he sat out a whole year and it wasn’t until they declared his career over that the insurance company coughed up the cash to the Mets.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

Excuse me-UNLIKE you Mets’ Fans.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

can we please give it a rest already about the yunel escobar play.

an inconsequential play committed by an inconsequential team in an inconsequential game in an inconsequential season against the most inconsequential of inconsequential franchises.

who really gives a damn.

what’s the difference gonna be? whether we win 82 or 83 games? who cares.

the mets will remember how historically inconsequential they are about a month from now when they get bounced out of the playoffs before getting to the world series.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

Yeah, sure wish I could write like one of those sitcom fellas. Well maybe someday. I wonder of those guys like baseball?

By Jay

September 13, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

LEW

You’re a jacka*

I didn’t say anything nasty to you. You are the reason I hate Brave fans. You’re a bunch of cocksu**ers

By the way you are WRONG Glavine did not sign before the winter meetings it was after.

http://www.hotfootblog.com/2006/12/01/heyman-mets-wont-offer-glavine-arbitration/

By Lew

September 13, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Anders-The possibility of different types of insurance policies does exist. The Braves received insurance money for Hampton LAST year, as well. Knowing how the Mets’ front office functioned when they signed Mo Vaughan, they were probably too cheap to get the necessary coverage. Despite what the Mets did or did not get for Mo Vaughan, the Braves DID receive insurance money due to Hampton’s injuries.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

Anders, yes, they collected insurance money for Hampton. I don’t feel like looking it up but DOB reported pretty extensively on this earlier in the season. They used alot of that money to get Smoltz signed back up. I don’t think the whole contract got covered - just about half of it or so.

By chipdip

September 13, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

MINAYA IS A GAY DOT- HEAD…UP THE IRONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MOTORHEAD RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Anders

September 13, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

Let me be the first to say that I will not be the first one to break this peace we’ve made on the “Escobar Escapade” But should some unforseen nasty blog befall me I will blame some of those in this blog for it.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

Hey Jay-You can remedy that if you want. Go away. I didn’t call you anything vaguely like the crap you just threw at me. If I suggested a perverse use of a 2x4 and your anal cavity, would you got autoeroticize yourself? Douchebag.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

Braveheart thanks for the civilized answer to a civilized question. others could learn from you.

By Jay

September 13, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART,

In 2003, the Mets were being purchased by Wilpon from Nelson Doubleday. They didn’t have money for free agents during that time because of someone names Steve Phillips, you know the baseball genious of ESPN.

Phillips was FIRED during the Wilpon takeover and Jim Duquette was hired.

Duquette then traded or designated for assignment MO vaugn, Bobby bonilla, kevin Appier, Roberto Alomar.

Even after that the Met payroll was still over 100 million.

The Wilpons are not Time Warner mind you or Liberty. In 2004, still during the change over, the hired Minaya and told him to sign Pedro.

So clearly, during management change overs, there can and has been times when the incoming regime has expanded payroll.

But I understand that the Braves are in a small market and the Mets, even though they weren’t winning, are worth more dollars than the Braves so that helps the Mets a TON.

By Jay

September 13, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this

No we can remedy that with a face to face meeting at anytime and any place in any state you please.

Tough talk on a blog doesn’t mean you got balls LEW.

Your words don’t scare me at all. i live in Atl. Cobb County to be exact.

You feel froggy?

I get the point, you own this blog and its your place to release your feelings because you don’t have guts to call people names to their face.

Either way, you a shallow human being. YOU go away.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

Jay, Anders, just get Isiah Thomas the hell away from our Knicks and I will be a happy man. Now that is a terrible GM with a clueless owner to go along with him. But that Randolph trade looks pretty good. Think the Blazers want Zach back right about now? Looks like they might have the #1 pick 2 years in a row now. Oden looks old and it seems his body is physically old. Oden is a 19 year old boy with a middle aged face and body.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 13, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

A quick comment on the discussion about Escobar and his snafu last night. In the long run it did not matter as a run would have scored anyway on the ensuing hit. What he did learn was invaluable however as I will bet hard money it will never happen to him again.

It is part of the learning curve all players go thru, so have the benefit of learning at the AA or AAA level. Yuni learned it on the big stage. Okay, it’s done and over.

The kid still has a big upside. He still looks as good as Zimmerman at third and that is saying a lot.

By Jay

September 13, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Can’t agree with you more. Thomas should go NOW. Oden had micro fracture surgery. It took Allan Houston 2 years to recover. Long term it looks bad for portland.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

Feel bad for Oden. he seems like a good guy. hopefully, he will get back like amare stoudemire did - but it took him a while to be good again and he was not as explosive last year as he was 3 years ago.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Jay-And I live in Vermont. You’d better hurry before you need snowshoes. Douchebag.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Jay-I’d just like to point something (a couple things, actually), out to you. You escalated this p!$$!ng contest, not me. I told you it was time to drop the subject of Glavine because there was nothing more to say about it and then told you to take Anders away from his subject as well. You retort was to call me (and all Braves’ fans) c******** and jackasses. BTW, moron, you do understand the concept of autoeroticism, don’t you? It means you should go screw yourself. I wouldn’t get within a county’s distance of your skanky @$$, you idiot. What are you, twelve? You think calling someone out on a blog is macho, perhaps? I guess that makes you a big man in your own myopic view. I’m quite certain we’re all impressed. You do realize that all day long (and a good bit of last evening, as well) the Mets fans have given us grief about two things-Glavine’s signing and Yunel’s play last night. One of them probably led to the Mets’ potential division championship and the other, according to Anders, led to the Mets winning the game. Seems to me both of these happenings were to the Mets’ benefit. Just what is the purpose of your b!thc!ng, anyway?

By "Fairness"

September 13, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

The only way this upward spiral into oblivion is going to be ended iis for MLB, NFL, NBA et al to pay for performance” not **potential. In other words, QB XXXX, you led us to victory in the Super Bowl. You get big bucks. OK, MLB XXXX you hit the home run that got us into the Series. You get big bucks. And, Manager XXXX you led your team to the World Series Championship. You get big bucks. The rest of you, work for minimum “wage”.

I know, that it is too simplistic, but can you deny that it is fair?

By Lew

September 13, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

Fairness-That won’t happen as long as there are player’s unions and collective bargaining agreements.

By KC

September 13, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: I agree with most everything you said in your previous post… save one thing. I believe you said “Liberty wasn’t a good ownership option either”, or something to that effect.

Why?

If Liberty boosts allows for the payroll to be lifted to say… around 90 million, I will consider this a pretty good ownership situation. Not GREAT, but pretty good.

There are benefits to corporate ownership of this nature. While they might not spend as much as an individual owner… we don’t have to worry about a Peter Angelos type of situation. Liberty will allow McGuirk and Shuerholz to do their jobs, and there’s a lot to be said for that.

And again, there will be a payroll boost to some degree this winter… so I’m not sure “not good” is anything that can accurately be said about this ownership situation right now. Let’s reserve judgment until we’ve at least had a full season under Liberty Media.

By "Fairness"

September 13, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

Lew I know it won’t happen, but most of the other “stuff” on here won’t either. But, I re-ask my question: Can you deny that it is “fair”?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 13, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Um , Braveheart. Thanks to Schuerholz and Cox , the Braves have not been competitive since 2005(two years) , have not won a playoff series since 2001(six years) , have not been to the World Series since 1999(eight years). In fact , the Braves have been slowly eroding since 1995(twelve years). Leo Mazzone , Stan Kasten and Dayton Moore have left for greener pastures(money). Wake up and smell the coffee , it ain’t a pretty picture to look at.

By "Fairness"

September 13, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

The nadir of negativity has come on the scene. I’ll rest my case…and my head.

By tyyosh

September 13, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

No stats to back it up, but it just seems lately that Cox has been slow to make aggressive late inning moves. With Green up, I thought surely either an intentional pass to the hot-hitting Braves killer in order to get to Righty-Righty matchup AND slow-footed batter or (like Shaun said) a call to Royce Ring was coming. I am betting that LaRussa or Leyland would have done one of those two moves.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

Fairness-Maybe. But if we were all held accountable in this world for our performances on anything, the world would cease to turn on it’s axis and then where would we all be? Eternal winter on one side and eternal heat wave on the other. Come to think of it, I guess that describes summer and winter, doesn’t it? Nevermind. It won’t happen, anyway.

By Bob, Journalist

September 13, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

Hi Coach, we go back a long way and I think I know you attitude toward bobby and John’s accountability but had you been in their position(s), what would you have done differently; given the restraints placed upon them?

By Tyler

September 13, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks trading Mark Teixeira for Kelvim Escobar is completely underestimating Tex.

Tex is 27 years old. He is a gold-glove first baseman. He hits for average (.300), power (25 HR this year), and drives in a lot of runs.

We gave up a lot to get him. The Angels also offered a lot for him.

Getting Saunders and Weaver or Saunders, Kotchman, and Santana would fill most of our needs. That would free up a good amount of money, and filling 1 or 2 spots of the rotation. Now we go out and trade Renteria for a solid #3 like Javier Vasquez, and we’re set. Smoltz, Hudson, Vasquez, Saunders, Santana/Weaver and we have Chuck James to trade or fill in the rotation.

I feel the answer to most of our needs is going to come through Tex. Hate to say it, but HE is our most powerful trading piece.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 13, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

Yeah Braveheart, the Mets may get bounced out of the playoffs but I know it won’t be the braves that do it. They got bounced out of the regular season. What are they 8-9 games out?

By Lew

September 13, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

Now ChopZone-We’ve acknowledged the Mets swept us and killed our chances. We’ve even admitted that we wouldn’t mind having Maine. But when it comes down to the bottom line, one game or twenty games makes no difference if you don’t come in first. Let’s see where the Mets end their season. I don’t think they’ll make it to the series any more than they did last year. If you don’t win it all, it doesn’t mean anything. Isn’t that what y’all Mets fans have been telling us all along? Well, y’all haven’t won anything yet, have you? Let’s see if this year’s results are any more rewarding for you this year. I’m betting you won’t be any happier when all is said and done. Not sure El Duque will help you in the playoffs any more than he did last year, either. He was overcompensating for his injury the other night. That can cause serious issues with his delivery, long term. Of course, when you’re 50 or 55 like El Duque, what exactly is long term?

By ncscoots

September 13, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

Tyler, is it then your statement in front of God, man, and blog that replacing Teixeira, Renteria, and Andruw with Kotchman, Escobar, and a PTBNL will IMPROVE the team? Or that any two pitchers not named Koufax and Drysdale could so improve the pitching that such an offensive dropoff would not have dire consequences?

Unless Saunders and Escobar could hit like Tony Cloninger, of course…

By Old Lefty

September 13, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this

Trade The Rent? Thanks to Yunie, you bet. Ain’t read much on here, however, regarding for who.

I think D-Train is an obvious candidate … and there is a certain symmetry to Edgar heading back to the Fish, though seeing him that often, an original Brave Killer, back in that line-up is not a pleasing prospect.

Look fwd to more from you all on this …..

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

KC, the jury is still out on Liberty Media. I’ll believe ‘em when I see it. I was very pleased with the willingness to spend to get Tex. But the bottomline is they are not in this for the love of it.

Ted Turner was in it for the love of it. Yes, he made mistakes. But he loved the companies and teams he owned and he worked hard to maximize the potential and profits of the companies and teams he owned. Ted was in it for the long haul and to make his teams, his companies, and himself world wide known brand names.

Liberty Media has made it clear they are not in it for the long haul and that they are not in it for the love of the Braves, Atlanta, the South, baseball, or the fans. They are in it for the love of tax breaks.

The dumbest thing is that Stupid Bud Selig thinks he is making it better by making them stick around for 4 years. I think that makes it worse. If they don’t want in for the long haul, let ‘em bail as soon as they want and can. Bring in a Blank or Cuban who wants this team.

Blank has screwed up alot with the Falcons but no one can question where his heart is. Whether he is doing it for himself or the team does not matter. He is doing it to give himself and/or the team a lasting legacy. I’d much rather the owner who is not afraid to have egg all over his face like what happened with Vick, Peerless Price, Mora the Junior than a faceless corporation who has to make the GM make every stupid excuse in the world for why he only has three quality starting pitchers.

Angelos should be told to give that team up for the best interests of baseball. That city loves that team and filled that park for years when the stadium was new and the team competitive. I don’t know what happened to that fella after 1996. Angelos is actually worse than AOL/TW, which is rather difficult to fathom. But Angelos is worse than AOL/TW nevertheless.

Gimme an owner, whether an individual or faceless corporation, who cares and loves the team, the city, the fans, the sport.

To make money, you have to spend money - and spend it wisely. You don’t go and just stop spending money because ticket sales have dropped from 40,000 to 28,000. You figure out where things have gone wrong. And perhaps you make a scapegoat.

For example, I think Cox is a HOF manager. But, in 2003, instead of setting a stupid salary cap, I would have fired Cox to revitalize the fans increasingly tired of the same ole, same ole. Cox might not have deserved it – debatable to most of you. But it would not matter. Firing the manager is the ageless method of sending a different new message to the fans. This would have sparked a lot of fan interest and debate, which certainly never hurts the bottomline in profits.

I also would have kept Maddux and Glavine. I would have kept Sheffield and I would have found another black superstar or two to play here in Atlanta. This is often called black mecca in America but we have not had a black superstar since Sheffield and he always felt temporary so fans did not get to buy into him for the long term. I don’t want to hear from those who naively say skin color does not matter. Ticket sales from 2005 say otherwise - not in terms of skin color but that local fans rally around local kids who grew up like them. The same would be true probably of black people rallying around black stars.

I would have pursued the route the Braves have pursued with bringing up Georgia raised homegrowns. Since Hudson and SMoltz rejoined the rotation and since Frenchy, McCann and the Georgia bred Baby Braves arrived on the scene in 2005, ticket sales have gone up by 6000 fans a game. That is an additional 15 million dollars or so a season in revenue being generated. That right there covered Smoltz and Hudson and Frenchy’s salaries. Frenchy has more than paid back his million dollar bonus to the Braves from when he was drafted in 2002 with the increased attendance.

If Maddux, Glavine were still around there would probably be 40,000 fans in the stands every game. They are averaging 34,000 fans a game despite mediocre results the last two seasons and crappy starting pitchers outside of Hudson, SMoltz, and Chuck that no one cares really to see. If Maddux and Glavine were still here, more fans would care and would come out to support those pitchers and the team.

Plus, they would have won more. More wins usually means more fan interest and more people coming to the games. Would more fan interest have also translated into more people watching on TBS and the Braves still being on TBS more? Or at least more lucrative radio and television contracts – and thus more revenue?

Just look at this blog around the 3 week period surrounding the Tex trade. DOB had like 3 weeks straight of 1000 posts. I have no idea how many more hits he was getting locally and nationally from people fascinated about the Tex deal but I imagine it must have been astronomically higher than at any other period of the blog’s history. But now that the lack of pitching has given us no reason to believe, things have slowed down.

What if you got Tex but you had good pitching and we were assured of a playoff spot and a reason to believe? This blog would still be getting 1000 posts a day with all the buzz surrounding it. And we would have sellouts every night.

Or you can look around at other AJC blogs. DOB owns this blog and loves the team, sport, music, the city, and the fans. Because of his passion for the blog, he is always assured of hundreds of posts and thousands of hits every day whereas the other AJC blogs become ghost towns unless UGA or the Falcons lose or Vick does something stupid.

The lack of love of the team by the owners caused a lack of vision on how to turn things around. They got scared and pulled back when they needed to be more aggressive.

If Sir John was not as skilled as he is, this team would be in absolute Angelos type shambles right now. Sir John has been able to keep us moderately competitive. Coach, any problems Sir John and Cox have had is because their hands are tied behind their backs. Try taking a leak tonight Coach with your hands tied behind your back. There is gonna be a lot of splatter and scatter in your aim I’m betting as opposed to the consistency you have with hitting your target when your hands are free.

I think good local owners who love, know, and understand the team, the city, the Southern region, the players, and the fans could have had more vision on how to make the dwindling fortunes of the Braves earlier in the decade more prosperous. Cox and Teflon John have that love and vision. Thus we have maintained respectability despite the loveless owners.

I don’t think Liberty Media understands that. I don’t think LM loves this team. They have been better than AOL/TW but their changes seem more cosmetic than anything, like a band aid on a broken bone - futile. I’ll believe it when I see it. I don’t think I will see it. They are not in it for the long haul like the rest of us, win or lose, prosperous or bankrupt, scandalized or celebrated.

Another epic, too long blathering post. But Braveheart is a Mel Gibson production. Would you expect anything different?

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 13, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

Bob , I would have blown this team to hell and back. Now, thats isn’t the popular choice by any means but it would be a whole new constructive direction. I would start from scratch with pitching , youth , defense , speed and the best athletic ability. Yea , I’m talking total fire sale. Smoltz , Hudson , Renteria and Wickman would have been traded right before the July 31st deadline. I would have benched Andrew and told him , either accept a trade or sit and rot. I would have gone after Philip Hughes/Kyle Farnsworth , Andrew Miller/Zach Miner , Jon Lester/Craig Hansen and the best young position players. The Yankees , Tigers and Redsox would have had little choice but to pony up or let the other two teams reap the reward. I would have made it a public fire sale and forced them to compete. Basically , this franchise would have been bulldozed and rebuilt. Aren’t you glad I’m not the GM ?

By Tyler

September 13, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

That’s exactly our problem. We focus way too much on offense. Our team has no chemistry. Why? Because we have no backbone. The backbone is pitching.

A rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Vasquez, Sauners, (Insert any of the names mentioned) wouldnt be an outstaning rotation, with 2 youngsters, 2 pitchers in their prime, and Smoltz?

Don’t tell me a lineup like this shouln’t be able to manufacture runs:

Kelly Johnson (.384 BA, .382 OBP), Yunel Escobar (.318 BA, .375 OBP), Chipper Jones (.330 BA, 25 HR, 87 RBI, .416 OBP), Brian McCann (.276 BA, 18 HR, 88 RBI), Jeff Franceour (.298 BA, 17 HR, 95 RBI), Matt Diaz (.338 BA, .368 OBP), Casey Kotchman (.292 BA, .360 OBP, 35 2B), Corey Patterson (.269 BA, 37 SB, Or Rowand or Hunter if we got lucky, if not farm).

The power is distributed evenly across the entire lineup. Chipper would be the most powerful, and the RBI, OBP, and AVG is there. Having Renteria in the lineup if he isn’t traded would be huge as well as the #2 hitter.

Pitching is key. We don’t have it. We have ways to get it. Teixeira is not the key to us winning games. Pitching is the answer.

By monty

September 13, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

I like Escobar,I think he will be a better than average player. If he had speed I would maybe put him in the same class as Ramiriz, Jimmy Rollins, or Reyes, but he doesn’t. Not that he is slow but just slightly better than average speed. So, he’s always going to be mentioned below those guys unless he can bat for a higher average or develop more power numbers.I agree he needs to play but unless Edgar gets traded or Chipper gets hurt(which he will) there’s no place to put him. We have to have pitching but trading for pitching is like rolling dice. Every now and then you come up big but more often than not you get bit in the behind,example,Kolb,that guy from Pittsburg, Hampton, and a host of others. I sure would hate to give away Edgar for some bum arm pitcher. It’s a dilema.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 13, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Muts team is so good that the playoff are not here yet and their fans already know and accept they wont get far.

Thats a loud statement.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 13, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Dave O’Brien Just catching up on the blog and read your comment about how body size had little to do with a pitcher’s ability to throw hard. Back in the ‘50, the Russians did studies on weight lifters and the relationship of body size to the amount of strength and ability to lift weights. What they discovered was the insertion point of the tendons to the bone had the greatest impact on predicting the potential of a man’s ability to lift. Even an amount of a few millimeters distal from the torso could increase a man’s potential 10X.

Simply put those persons processed greater leverage. While a person still had to train to reach full potential, those born with the proper anatomical makeup had a distinct advantage. So it is with pitchers. You are absolutely right when you state body type has little to do with a pitcher’s ability. However, any pitcher must learn to work with what they have. The brain, in my humble opinion, is the most vital organ to allow for maximizing a player’s talent.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Old Lefty-Dude, have you actually paid attention to Dontrelle’s steady decline the past two years? Were you aware his ERA has literally doubled since 05? Are you aware he has given up 27 HR’s this season? Were you aware that his ER, hits, BB and WHIP have risen steadily since 05? Every single “good” number has decreased and every single “bad” stat has increased incrementally since his only real good season in 05. Were you aware that his ERA is actually one point higher than Buddy Carlyle’s? And you want to trade the number two hitter in the NL for more of Buddy Carlyle? For crying out loud-Dontrelle’s ERA is 5.27. Don’t we have enough pitchers with those numbers already?

By Old Lefty

September 13, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Cheesh, Braveheart, it’s a freakin’ blog … not a soap box. Give somebody else a chance.

All well said, and there is not a shred with which I disagree, but …… whew!

Anyway … I say Rent for D-Train … whadda y’all say?

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

Old Lefty, if Edgar went to the Marlins, where would the Marlins put Edgar, Hanley, and Cabrera?

By Lew

September 13, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

Old Lefty-One more thing-possibly the main reason Edgar won’t end up on the Marlins. They have Hanley Ramirez playing at shortstop-quite possibly an MVP candidate and maybe the batting champ of the NL this year. They just plain don’t need Edgar.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 13, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

LEW, much of what you say has merit but I’d rather be standing on this side of the fence than vise versa. If you know what I mean.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 13, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

Overlord The Mets are getting farther in the playoffs than the braves. Oh wait, the braves didn’t make the playoffs. Did they?

By ncscoots

September 13, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

Ervin Santana - career ERA of near 5; Saunders - career ERA near 4.50; Vasquez I won’t even bother to look up; Kotchman - career OPS of .730 (!); not exactly team-changing players.

Your lineup above has exactly one player with at least three years of solid ML performance; exactly one player who has hit 30+ HR; and a bottom third that even Kansas City would love to pitch against. Manufacture runs? You bet. You’d have to, since you might have a big inning about once a week.

Tunnel vision on pitching, my friend. Good pitching prevents losing; only scoring makes you win.

By De truth

September 13, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

“The brain, in my humble opinion, is the most vital organ to allow for maximizing a player’s talent.”

Is that what she told you after discovering your proximal deficiency?

By Lew

September 13, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

ChopZone-I know exactly what you mean. There’s always next year.

By TennesseePaul

September 13, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: Long @ss post there. I think part of the reasoning behind the 5 year plan was the tax laws themselves. They have to hold the asset for a certain amount of time in order to get the tax credit they received in the deal. Additionally, Liberty Media understands that the best way to make money on the team is to build on its value, not necessarily by cutting quality to watch the fiscal bottom line.

I don’t know for sure what is going on, but it’ll be interesting to see. And at least with this corporate owner, we have an idea how long it’ll last.

DOB: Great article out there on the close games and the interviews with the players. I hope they do stick it out and play their @sses off the rest of the season.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 13, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville your comments are correct, same applies with contact sports like boxing, karate, etc., in which energy is transmited from the core of the body to the hands, the passage of the energy increases while it is passing through, the longer the extremities (superior and inferior) the more energy it is released from that body, this applies to throwing and batting. Thats why you find few short pitchers that can go 7 innings throwing 90+ consistently and thats why you will find few short players hitting the ball out of the yard (belliard, furcal, lemke, etc). There are short players that can do it (pitching) like wagner, he is not that tall, but he wouldnt be able to do it more than 3 or 4 innings, takes too much energy for him to do it, too much effort. Same for short hitters that have other abilities or built lots of muscle in order to do it, but it is rare or uncommon(giles, TP, gant).

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

I’d rather be standing on this side of the fence than vise versa. If you know what I mean.

Not really sure what you mean NCZ. What the hell is a VISE versa? That sounds kind of painful to my noggin. A Visa Versa would be painful for me as well considering my credit history. Vice versa is pretty painful as well. But our team is young. Yours is not. If we get Glavine next year, things swing our way.

By Braveheart

September 13, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Scoots, stop making me laugh so hard. You and 10Paul always get to the heart of the absurdity of things.

By David O'Brien

September 13, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Just cracked up reading a bunch of the posts. This might be a little too far back for some of our younger denizens, but most of you will remember when I say the posts tonight remind me of the great Jane Curtain-Dan Akyroyd bits on SNL — you know, “Jane, you ignorant slut….”

By Lew

September 13, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Old Lefty- Let’s take a look at Dontrelle, up close. The following numbers are for 05, 06 and 07-in that order. WL-22-10, 12-12, 8-15. ERA 2.63, 3.87, 5.27. Hits-213, 234, 224 (so far). Runs-79, 106, 120 (so far). Strikeouts-170, 160, 128. Walks-55, 83, 74 (again, so far). HR-11, 21, 27 (so far). WHIP-1.13, 1.42, 1.63. As you can see, there has been a steady decline over three years, resulting in mediocrity. No way do I trade for Dontrelle. Steve Trachsel has put up better numbers.

By JJMB

September 13, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

Did you see the Washington Post article on the Nats/Marlins game yesterday? The reporter wrote that there were 400 people in the stands. A quick check of the box score reveals the “attendance” was 10,121.

Man oh man. When is MLB going to do something about the Florida teams?

By Tyler

September 13, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

So we won a lot this year with our outstanding offense huh? All those games we scored all those runs tallied up a postseason huh?

Joe Saunders (8-3, 3.97 ERA, 26 Years Old), Ervin Santana (Last year 16-8, 4.28 ERA, 24 Years Old, Down Year), Javier Vasquez (12-8, 3.90 ERA, 194 IP, 180 K - Career 4.30 ERA)

That still improves our starting rotation with a veteran, 2 youngsters with a lot of talent who can already perform at the major league level. Add in Kotchman and you have a good trade for Teixeira and Renteria.

Both are free agents next year. Teixeira will not be signed, and Renteria wouldnt be because Escobar is ready.

Either trade for young pitching, or have a repeat of last year, while counting on Hampton to be our #3.

If we make all of those trades, and drop AJ’s salary, we may be able to make a splash at Hunter or Rowand.

Whatever. If you think our offense is more important than pitching, then you didn’t watch very many games this year.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

DOB-Yeah, but we’re not going to pop our shirt buttons and show you a black lace bra. Old Lefty-Forgot one more stat on Dontrelle- Innings pitched have decreased fro 236 to 223 to 182 this year.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 13, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, there we go with those IF’S again. Lets stick with 2007 since it’s where we are right now. I know that’s not where you want to be.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 13, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

I can recall that ALL muts fans have told ALL of us that they braves only have and world championship to show for the 14 division titles, so that means at least so far the mets are sooooooooo far behind, because thats all they have, a freaking meaningless division title. Dont they??? Thats what you have been saying all this time. Division titles and playoff appearances mean S………T!!!!!!!!!

Or do you have anything to say about it???

The Truth, the brain acts only as a CPU. If you dont have enough RAM, SATA Harddrive, etc., your CPU alone will not make your computer perform well. There are a lot of thing in between the brain and your hands and your feet, the development of good interaction between nerves and muscles and joints, will make a Good CPU (brain) look better. Thats why in ASIA there are guys that can play XBox and stuff like that at speeds you cant even dream of, they have developed better cell interactions.

Enough of this, hahaha.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

Tyler-First of all, The Angels are fighting for a AL West title. There pitching is an integral part of their success to this point. Their offense usually isn’t a huge problem. Just why would they trade us two of their best pitchers if they are that good? It just makes no sense. In addition, we are going to lose Andruw’s bat (such that it was this year-still 24 HR’s). If you take Edgar and Teixeira out of the lineup, where does our offense come from? Chone Figgins and Kotchman will replace all that power? Get real. Now as far as a free agent situation with Renteria and Tex. Edgar is signed through 09 (club option for 09), not next year. Teixeira will be signed long term-count on it. If the money wasn’t going to be made available, then we wouldn’t have traded for him, giving up all we gave up for him. Count on that. Sorry, Dude. I’m not calling you an ignorant slut, but your idea is ill conceived. You just can’t trade ALL of your power and offense for a couple of number three and four starters. You just can’t and JS won’t. Period.

By Anders

September 13, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Braveheart I have to tell you I’m still laughing about your Goat Boy comment. Looking at Shaun Green it was right there in front of me and I never saw it.

By JJMB

September 13, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

I just noticed Langerhans is hitting .166 this year.

By S T I nk Y

September 13, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

Yawn.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

JJMB-Told you he would turn it around after his .052 start.

By Tyler

September 13, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Say what you want, my idea may not be THE answer, but I think that’s the direction we have to go. Young talented pitching. You ask why the Angels would do it? I simply brought it up because that is what they offered Texas.

If you all want to power up the offense and count on Hampton coming back, then count on next year being te same as this year.

By JJMB

September 13, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

Hey, what about this. Move one or both of the FL franchises to New Orleans. Hell, MLB is in the subsidizing business, why not NO? They could build a cool ballpark with the outfield up against a big jetty. Boom, a HR into the jetty. Into the Huey P. Long jetty!

By Anders

September 13, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Lew since you gauranteed the future signing of Tex (another of your super powers that you would rip anyone else for even trying) would you care to fill the rest of us mere mortals in on what kind of $’s your talking about?

By KC

September 13, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

DOB: “And by the way, don’t be surprised, despite what NY papers reported about it being Mets-or-retire next year, if Glavine actually speaks to the Braves once again. I won’t be surprised. Haven’t heard anything to that effect yet, but I won’t be surprised.”

Well of COURSE you won’t be surprised… because I already told you Glavine will be back next year. =)

By Old Lefty

September 13, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

DENIZENS !!! THAT’s what I expect from you all. You guys are GOOD.

OK …. I was just thinking the change of scene to ATL and getting under Smoltie’s wing and BC’s handling would do D-Train (and, by extension, the Braves) a bunch of good. Numbers, as you clearly assert, do NOT back that up. (Though I will always wonder what this kid would do here …… )

Then ……. WHO?

‘cause I don’t see us needing anything but an SP or two …..

By JJMB

September 13, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

Lew, I must have missed that one. When you’re right, you’re right.

By Old Lefty

September 13, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

JJMB ….. I love it. But it should be called :

Kingfish Kove

Helluvan improvement over Dolphin Stadium. Almost better than Tropicana Field.

By Yars

September 13, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

Edgar could fetch us a solid starting pitcher. Both KJ & Escobar should be playing everyday, & it’s obvious Yunel is most comfortable at SS. Trading KJ would be a mistake. He’s capable of putting up .300/20/95 type numbers in the near future. I can’t see the Braves moving him back to LF. Why do so many of you want that to happen? Lillibridge won’t be ready for the show next season. Who is to say the team won’t try to trade him? Maybe his future in MLB is in the OF? If everything goes as planned, we will have Aybar back & in top shape when spring training ‘08 begins. He should be our top player off the bench. He can back up 3B, SS & 2B. I hope Julio retires. A roster spot can’t be wasted on him. I love the guy, but I think it’s time he gets into coaching or something. Now Playing Down In It by Nine Inch Nails

By JJMB

September 13, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

Kingfish Kove it is.

By deewill23

September 13, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

Brent Lillibridge is a way better player than Yunel Escobar.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 13, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this

De truth It has been my experience that those who obsess over size are usually deficient in that department. That being said, I have never had to give it a second thought.

By Jay

September 13, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

LEW

Just read your 7:22 post.

Funny stuff.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Anders-Nowhere did I guarantee anything. What I did say was that the fact that Tex was even brought here at the cost which the Braves paid, it was an pretty damn good indication that his signing was in their plans. I have no idea what they will offer, much less what he will sign for. $$$ in the bigs these days is thrown around like so much Monopoly money. What I do know is that in 09 we lose Hampton’s salary, which is substantial. Chipper’s contract ends after the 09 season, as well-hence more money. Same with Smoltz and Hudson. I would hope that Liberty Media would boost salary by at least $10-15 million. Lord knows, they got the Braves almost as a throw in and they saved a fortune in taxes on their entire deal. They can damn well afford to do some thing. There does that answer your question? Good. Quit being a dick head.

By jb

September 13, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

I am so tired of people clamoring for more speed at the top of the line up. If the lead off hitter walks and steals second, advances to 3rd on the second place hitter’s AB, and the next few hitters strike out, it accounts for naught. The Braves need to put the ball in play! A solid hit, a ball finding a whole somewhere, a boot, a bobble, a throwing error, and a runner advancing on an out are all good possibilities. Early in the year Johnson was getting on base and scoring often. Too many people said move Harris to lead off early in the year. It looked good for awhile, but Harris lacks the discipline needed to lead off. He is an 8th place hitter. He is aggressive and may swing at a reachable pitch out of the strike zone for a hit. The number 8 hitter sees a lot of those. He then can get to second with a SB or a sacrifice bunt from the pitcher. You now have hitters like Johnson and Renteria present to get him in. If Renteria is indeed traded, Escobar leading off followed by Johnson makes sense. Escobar hits righties well and Johnson hits the lefty well. Get them in the line up together, NO PLATOON!! I see too many bloggers platooning Diaz next year in there dream line ups. He hits right handers at a better average than many left handed hitters. It’s not like we are putting gold glove fielding left handers in LF when he sits. What does he have to do to get everyday playing time? With the CF position, I like Rowland, but I think he will command too much salary next year. Regarding Escobar’s play. Beltran made a heads up, well timed base running move. Escobar has advanced an extra base with similar base running savvy many times. I still love the play when he took second with the pitcher bending over adjusting his socks. He is a keeper. I like the Jeter comparisons (Escobar is better on defense.) That said, Escobar is no A-Rod. I agree with the one who said A-Rod should be compared to Ruth, Mays, Dimaggio, etc.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

Jay-Glad you have a sense of humor. I was beginning to wonder.

By gotigers72

September 13, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

DOB* - “Jane you ignorant slut” is one of the many Saturday Night Live lines/phrases that are unforgettable, especially from the early years. Along with “We are two wild and crazy guys” from one of my favorite skits and “You look marvelous” from Fernando in another of my favorite skits. I could think of plenty more. Thanks for reviving those great memories.

By flbravesgirl

September 13, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

I like the New Orleans idea, JJMB. Certainly a good place could be found for a ballpark amongst the rebuilding & anything that creates jobs & gives residents something to rally around would be a good thing.

I would imagine that would be a pretty popular road trip.

By Tyler

September 13, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

We need pitching, period. A young #3 at worst. We could make a splash at the FA market for a CF, or leave it to farm or a lower FA signing (Cameron, Patterson). Either way, we need a way to get starting pitching. That’s how we won in the 90’s. We don’t have the pitching now, and we aren’t winning. Put the two together. You don’t need a doctorate to realize pitching is much more important than adding a few new significant bats. Where are the Yankees? They have the most talented lineup by far. There pitching woes leave them in second place. The Red Sox have an excellent rotation, which puts them nicely in first. The Padres have an outstaning 1,2 punch in Peavy and Young, better than ours. The Mets rotation is better than ours, which makes the difference in our seasons. The Dodgers have a good rotation and without injuries they would be a force to be reckoned with. The Cubs have a solid rotation and are playing well. My point is, we have all the pieces except pitching depth. Our offense can come together-it’s the pitching that needs to hold up and be one of the best in the league.

By Lew

September 13, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

Tyler-I don’t disagree about getting some younger pitching. I just don’t think losing Andruw, Tex, AND Edgar all at once is survivable. We have to have some power. If you lose all three of those players, you lose 75 HRs and all their RBI as well. You mentioned replacing Tex with Kotchman. Dude, Casey has hit 9 HR and knocked in 63-that doesn’t even replace Edgar’s production, much less the 60 or so HR from Tex and Druw. There has to be a balance in the moves that are made. Ask Efrim-we have several excellent pitching prospects in the lower minors right now. We have a couple of years left with Smoltz and Hudson. We can add younger pitchers at a somewhat slower rate and still keep some offense.

By robert zimmerman

September 13, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your mouth,

Blowing down the backroads headin’ south.

Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth,

You’re an idiot, Cox,

It’s a wonder that you still know how to breathe.

By AZBravoFan

September 14, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

Sorry, I can’t help myeself here until I see that big “E” next to the Braves in the standing. Say they were to rip off 10 in a row starting tomorrow night. And all the other wildcard contenders go 6-4 during that stretch. That’s 4 games and all of a sudden we’re half a game out. Yeah, I know. We’ve seen nothing in the last 2 years to make us believe the Bravos could win 10 in a row. But stranger things have happened in September.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 14, 2007 1:08 AM | Link to this

Part the idea of getting Teixeira was in anticipation of replacing the offense of Andruw Jones and possibly Edgar Renteria.

By Lester Reyes

September 14, 2007 1:36 AM | Link to this

—“the Mets are more loved nationally than the Braves”—I understand the average (even transplanted) New Yorker thinks the “nation” extends no farther west nor south than Philadelphia, but that’s one of the more absurd claims I’ve ever heard, even from a self-deluded, self-transplanted New Yorker (btw, when one of y’all gets “transplanted”, what is the South forced to give up? Probably one hell of a soul-food restaurant, or maybe a good, up-and-coming young rock band that knows how to swing and boogie without pouting through copious amounts of makeup).

— The difference between Braves teams of now and yesteryear? Dare I say it? H-E-A-R-T As I write this, sitting in the Pacific NW, watching the Mariners at Tampa Bay, the M’s SS, Yuniesky Betancourt has hit his 3rd clutch, game-changing knock in as many games, and—just now—scored the go-ahead run on a Beltre single. Point being, you got production when it counted from guys like Lemke, Pendleton, et al. The M’s had every reason to believe they were out of this game (down 7-1 at one point) after Jeff Weaver could only get 4 outs to start the game (really, that joker does not deserve to wear a major-league uni—he hucks it up there like he just does not give a $#!+, then has the nerve to snub his manager on his way off the mound). They also had every reason to believe that, after going 2-15 in their last 17 games, they were done for the season. But they’ve hung in there (and say what you will about the D-Rays, they’ve had the best offense in baseball since 8/24—1st in every major category, according to the M’s pre-game show), and given themselves chances to win because they grind out ABs, and quite frankly, I don’t see any of the Braves doing that, save for maybe Edgar and Yunel (M’s just won, 8-7!). Yes, they’ve had unfortunate runs of luck and questionable front-office decision-making recently, but so have most teams. It’s time (has been for awhile) to hand over the (for lack of a better word) “spiritual” reigns of this team to someone besides Chipper and Smoltz, especially if the former is only going to make it into 110 games a year, and the latter is going to intermittently whine about the anemic offense (hey, big chief, it was your decision to hang a curve to Marlon Anderson last night—why didn’t you dust off ol’ knucksie, if you were scraping the bottom of the barrel?) If you bring Glavine back, problem solved (Smoltz isn’t a natural leader, and Chipper is so used to winning at every level that he seems ready to pack up his toys and go home when things don’t go his way).

So, for my money next year (not that I can spend much of it on the Braves, living about 3,000 miles away), move KJ back to LF (yes, I know, he’s made great strides at 2B, but moving him back shouldn’t hamper his ability to hit leadoff), and let Martin Prado play 2B—he’s better there, anyway, and that guy doesn’t give up ABs like the lazy, comfortable veterans. Yes, trade Renteria before he begins to break down more (he’s a world-class #2 hitter, and a fine SS, but he’s only getting older, people), preferably for starting pitching (how ‘bout to Toronto? Towers and Burnett should be available, and, while I recognize that neither are ideal, you all must also recognize that neither is the Braves situation for next year, at least as it stands now. Of course, if Glavine would come back for $10M…). Everything else is set position-wise, save for CF, but I don’t think any of us has any reasonable prediction of what might happen there. Save for a dramatic payroll increase, or a keen hometown discount, I don’t think even Cameron will be affordable next year).

Alright, enjoy your Zzzzz’s, everyone back east.

By uga-brave

September 14, 2007 2:04 AM | Link to this

BRAVEHEART, LEW, OVERLORD,SHAUN.

if you have not read BUDDY CALYLE’S Q&A on the braves web-site read it. what a great interview. this guy gets it. for all of us that think we could play, this guy should be our hero. i played all the way to GEORGIA actuallly played with don perno now the head coach.

played with the other carpenter named chris. he was from gainsville and also punted. played with a great left hander named derek, he could hit a little. LILLQUIST, GREAT GUY should of been a hitter.

we had two great college pitchers on that team. life is fragile. if you would of bet me that derek and carp would not of made it, no way. LEW YOU ARE A DAWG REMEMBER THAT PUNTER.

my point is buddy never gave up, very motivational story. hey lew, you dawg remeber T-BONZ on baxter street, the PERNOS had a formal where shop right down the street.

hey i graduated the year before we beat stanford in college world series. saw a some cool things though.

got to watch the fans chant JOEY, JOEY, JOEY. WHICH WAS ACTUALLY LSU’S FUTURE ALBERT BELLE.

By uga-dawg

September 14, 2007 2:27 AM | Link to this

PALADIN,

did not mean to forget you. as a first year blogger, wish results would of been better. but as a neophyte i get it. we all love the bravos, some want to be more PRAGMATIC than you, but i understand your certain senior rights here.

brave-dave you and me called it during the ARIZONIA series. dont get why you guys dont like BRAVE-DAVE.

By vwburt

September 14, 2007 2:38 AM | Link to this

the only difference between the mets and the braves is speed. bobby cox who i like very much has done a poor job of manageing this year. no one on the team kwows how to bunt except john s. harris should have been on the team out of spring training. the braves needs some speed and unless they get it next year will be the same as 07.

By uga-brave

September 14, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this

LEW,

as a dawg you will appreciate this. was over at east lake today before the rain came. half the EX football players either work for GEORGIA-CROWN, or used to work for HOME-BANC .GEORGIA-CROWN CROWN ROYAL, which is don lierburns outfit, he is the # 1 CONTRIBUTOR in money to our athletic program. he also dates SOUSAN YOULACAN who is our gymnastics coach.

saw a lot of great dawgs there, LEW whats itS going to be like listening to a non MUNSON CALL AT ALABAMA IN ONE WEEK?

By ronp

September 14, 2007 4:29 AM | Link to this

The emergence of Escobar and the failure of Andruw finally gives JS something to work with.

Dumping Renteria and Andruw opens up between $15-20 million in salary that can be used for spending on starting pitching.

That’s not a bad problem to have.

By Greg

September 14, 2007 5:19 AM | Link to this

It was nice of Smoltz to tell us what we already know. This team is not very good. It doesn’t help that every time we have a rally in a close game, AJ is at bat. We need him out. We need Aaron Rowand and a number two starter. Bullpen is solid if it doesn’t have to pitch so many innings.

By Serbok

September 14, 2007 6:11 AM | Link to this

K-guys Its me the pre-mature “eject-ya-later?” Honestly did not think I would be posting again this yr. This DOB article I feel was his best all year! UGA-Brave Good to see ya still bein the night bird:o( I watch Bravos on mlbtv.com. However~ I have to admit~had the oppurtunity to watch them against the Muts! , and didnt! Not much to watch anymore? Its really cool MLB has this website? as to where one can watch any game? for 15 bucks a month! I have a buddy whos a bronco fan~ and cannot watch his team without payin like, outrageous money for NFL season tkt? that really Sux! I’m fortunate~ I get to watch tampa buc’s lose all year for free due to im in their mkt. Gotta say to you guys~ MLBTV.com is the future? I realize most of ya know this already. Ya cant beat it tho! 15 bucks a month! virtually unlimited braves games! and all other games! This was my first year “contributing” to the blog and watchin games:o) The Blogs for the Buc’s absolutely suck! THE BLOG made this season sooo much more enjoyable to me! I wanna thank all the Upright contributers to the blog? THANX GUYS! DAVID O’BRIEN? All I can say is thanx Man! You helped make this one of the most enjoyable BB seasons I have experienced in a LOOOOOng time:o) TOUCHE! Sorry long post~ I feel the TRADE was awesome! I Want to see AJ back in CF next yr! DOB this article was VERY right ON man! Is Salty gonna finish (this year) his career at 1st base? lol Hope you all have a good off-season~

By h_charles

September 14, 2007 7:38 AM | Link to this

DOB —Spot on about Escobar. He is more than Renteria when he came up. He is the next Jeter, but with more flair and perhaps a tad behind him at the plate