Braves

By chipdip

September 11, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

The braves just need to shut it all down…and shoot for next year. It was good while it lasted.

By Lee in S. GA

September 11, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

The Mets are hands down the best team in the division at present time. Interleague play also should have shined some light on this Braves team. I think it did but most people and some players blamed it on the tough scheduled more than anything.

A proven number 3 starter must be acquired by this team before next season. I am not counting on Hampton to provide this to them and James is not the answer eit

By Off the Bench Captain

September 11, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

There is one reason the Braves have not contended. Starting pitching. Hudson and Smoltz have done what is expected from them. James has been a big disappointment. Cormier and Carlisle weren’t supposed to be that good anyway. If we go into next season expecting much from Mike Hampton, we’ll be in the same hole again. I say, “trade Edgar Renteria and a prospect for a 3 starter.” Drop Andruw and bring Brandon Jones up. Go out and get a closer that can help Soriano until Gonzalez gets back. This will be the first off-season we can see what this ownership group really plans to do. Oh, and lock up Tex for 5 more years!

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

DOB i think you have lots of fans, even muts fan come here to read your stuff, even they are plain stupid or dont have anything good to do with their lives. There might not be any good writers on the other end (queens).

Shame, shame, but it doesnt surprises me, they are muts fans, arent they, losers even if their team wins, hahaha, that sure is pathetic.

They think they are getting out of our shadow, they are sooooooooooo wrong, if that was the case, they wouldnt be here looking for us to accept them in baseball high society. LOL.

They are so f……….n affected for this situation of being in the shadow of the yankees and the braves that they dont know where to run, hahaha.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are so f…..ed up that they even went and got a pinstripe by heart as a manager to help them get a live and help them get out of misery.

I wonder what would *willie randolph * is asked on national TV to compare playing in the bronx and managing at queens, i would be surprised if he doesnt LOL, but well, he would not do cause he needs the job. Maybe he will just ask “is that a question or a joke?”.

Keep up trying muts, you have 12 years to go.

As far as i remember the last time the muts won a championship people didnt even talked about microsoft. I think people were using commodore 64, Soviets were dealing with Chernobyl disaster, the US attack tripoli, Reagan was in the white house, The Bears were the NFL champions at the moment, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were at their prime, Dan Marino was starting his 3er year with the Dolphins, even manuel antonio noriega was even ruling in panama (come on he is already out of jail after serving 17 years in prison), Augusto Pinochet was still ruling chile and Mike Tyson won his 1st fight.

WOOOOOOOOOOWWW!!!!!!!!!! long way back since the muts have something big to smile about.

Meanwhile in those long 20 years they have seen the sooooooooo hated braves win 14 straight division in their faces (even if they started the run in the west), braves win 1 WS and the yankees win 4 WS and 1 of those to the weak, crying baby muts.

But it gets worse, they only won the WS because billy Buckner couldnt move his wheel chair fast enough, grab the ball and step on muts neck, ooooooooppsssss i mean 1st base, sorry guys.

If the manager would have played stapleton at 1b for defensive purposes then the WS is over and we would be talking about……lets seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee……..how far before that………oh yeah, 1969……..MIRACLE MUTS……. They are soooooooooo bad, their 1st (and almost only championship) goes into baseball history as A MIRACLE!!!!!!!!

So what do we got here…….. all the mets have to show in their history is just MIRACLES!!!!!!!!!!

Boy that is what i call consistency, they should have called them in 1986 THE MIRACLE MUTS PART II.

What is sad is that their miracles comeas often as comet halley, well, maybe with more frequency.

Shame shame.

By ppaddy123

September 11, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

from the last blog…..Mr Giles still sucks!

By N8

September 11, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

As “far away” as it seems that the Braves are from the Mets (or even the Phillies), IMO, they are pretty close to being a very good team. But the window is a small one. Because Smoltz is only gonna get a year older each of the next two seasons.

So as UGLY as it is right now with only Smoltz and Hudson, we are possibly 2 years removed from having ONLY Hudson. YIKES!

So it is not only important to find a solid #3 for next year (moving Chuck where he belongs into the 4th, or even 5th spot if 2 starters are found), but for the future as well.

I have a feeling it’s gonna get worse before it gets better though, unless JS can pull a rabbit out of his hat this off-season.

We’ll see….

By Shaun

September 11, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Not saying this would have made that much of a difference in the division race but the Braves third-best hitter got hurt to go along with the fact that the back end of their rotation is not that strong and they’ve been on the wrong side of close games.

By Ron Roberts

September 11, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

What’s scary, to me, DO’H, is that, on paper, the Braves have all the talent and tools necessary to win, and yet they haven’t.

Don’t get me wrong, it was a mistake (again) to go into this season needing anything out of Mike Hampton. Not being prepared for his absence was a HUGE mistake, I think. I think it was also a mistake to expect a continuation of Chuck James’ 2006 pitching acumen knowing he lacked a bona fide third pitch. He’s been good enough, in my mind, to be a 4th starter, at best, on a contending team. What the Mets did, was pick up the right pitchers, to make their run this year. They went after young guys with all the tools, and lacking the numbers (Oliver Perez comes to mind) to tweak their stuff or mindset into winners; they went after proven veterans (Orlando Hernandez) to add to their up-and-coming pitching stars (John Maine and watch out for Mike Pelfrey…let this kid get his mind right and he’ll be a thorn in our side for years) and lo and behold, they had a venerable, durable starting rotation with Glavine giving them the veteran stability needed to withstand the loss of Pedro most of the season.

We had Smoltz and hoped for a better Tim Hudson (which we got), but we had a lot more hoping in the rotation than certainty. We hoped Mike Hampton was coming back and coming back strong; we were wrong. We hoped Chuck James was going to be as good or show improvement from his rookie campaign, and we were wrong there, too. Then we had to hope Redman was a plausible solution once Hampton went down; then we had to hope Buddy Carlyle was another Jaret Wright; we had to hope Jo Jo Reyes was going to be our Noah Lowery, Tim Lincecum or Cole Hamels; we hoped Kyle Davies would finally put the tools to work with a sound mind and game plan. We went into (and out of) spring training hoping Lance Cormier might be the answer at the back of the rotation… A lot of hoping and not a lot of delivery from those hopes.

Sometimes, as a fan, I felt like our team was trying anything just to see what would happen. Then, when we got Mark Teixeira, I believe we all hoped that the offense would out-do the pitching shortcomings. We over did it in rebuilding the bullpen, and didn’t even do that very well, trading for a pitcher with arm issues last year and leaving a hole at 1B and the lineup in the process.

I think, going into this offseason, we’re in much better shape than last, no doubt. But starting pitching has to be addressed first and foremost. I’d tell Octavio Dotel to hang it up for the season with 2008 being his goal. I’m not saying we trash the sanctity of the playoff push by playing all youngsters, but the bullpen arms we’ve worn out need to sit and let some of these kids pitch. I want to see if Joey Devine’s got what it takes, finally. I like Acosta and Asciano and wanna see more of ‘em. I wanna see if there’s a potential starter in either of ‘em, or hell, Tyler Yates (work on a better off-speed pitch in the off-season and let that guy start some spring training games) for that matter.

The offense is set, with or without Edgar Renteria. Maybe he’s the key to what we need in 2008, but I wouldn’t expect anybody to send us a marque pitching name, and if I’m the Braves, I’m looking for a young, potential 1 or 2 starter this off-season. Smoltz and Hudson won’t be that guy in 2009 and beyond, and I don’t see it in the farm, either.

By Shaun

September 11, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts,

Stats be damned? Well, looking at the stats, it’s pretty easy to see why the D-Backs have a good shot at reaching the post-season: They’ve been on the right side (for them) of a whole lot of close games.

Braveheart,

Yeah, I guess it’s possible Knoblauch’s personal issues caused his on-field troubles. But his career started trending downward in 1998, with the exception of his good ‘99 season.

About HoJo, that is and odd phenomenon (where do I get it?). But he was actually pretty darn good in ‘86 and ‘88. Could have been they were platooning him more in those years with Ray Knight and Magadan and Jefferies in those years for some reason so he couldn’t find his groove; he did play less in those years.

By GTA

September 11, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

It’s almost sad to read the blogs anymore. This team, despite what the players say, make their fans feel like they have given up. We all know they play hard day in and day out, but they don’t play smart. And I don’t want to make this out to be a knock on Bobby, because he’s been the best manager in baseball the last 15 years, but this year hasn’t exactly been his best work. Hopefully this year was just a hiccup like the Indians last year. They should be able to regroup and go at it next year. I would be disappointed to see them finish under .500, but that really looks like the way its going. The Braves are the team that were supposed to get it done, but just couldn’t do it.

By mike

September 11, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB…What would you do this offseason as far as moves/deals to get this team back to the WS, given that you had a slight jump in payroll. Say $15 mil.

By the way…I loved the article. No BS and straight to the deal. This team has under acheived all season. They better get some passion and excitement back for next your cause this division isnt gonna get any easier. We are facing the Yankee’s payroll of the NL. And they will not back down from spending money to beat us. we have to take this division back next year, and return to the WS. GO BRAVES 08’!

By The Law

September 11, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Repeat Offenders.

We all read your posts in the last blog.

By Drixie

September 11, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

A lot of good things happened this year: Kelly, Escobar, Diaz, Moylan, Harris, etc. However, the lack of pitching beyond Smoltz and Hudson, and the loss of Gonzalez in the pen took its toll. Give the Mets credit: they had injuries and suspect pitching, but they came through when they needed to. We need to let Andruw go bye-bye in 2007 and get a solid starter or two with the money we save. The core of everyday players is very good, so fix the pitching and we’ll be on the winning side of those close ones in 2008.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Is anybody else getting Deja vu reading this?

By ncscoots

September 11, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Trade Edgar for a stud starter? If only it were that simple. First, find a SS-needy team that is contending, or close to it (otherwise, why do you want a veteran guy, at his salary?). Second, find a team meeting condition #1 that ALSO has extra pitching. And, oh by the way, do you think a contender is going to give up a young stud pitcher that probably is one of the reasons they ARE contending? You bet.

The idea (Edgar for pitching), while beautiful in concept and simplicity, upticks on the ugly stick when examined for actual executability. Bloggers expecting something in the realm of Edgar-for-Johan (or Roy, or Justin, etc.) should prepare their upcoming rants, starting now. You’ll want to be ready later.

By bruce

September 11, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Dave, looked it up for you so you can stream on your PC… Bruce WDFU

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

DOB you hit the nail right on the head with this team… The only thing you didn’t mention (which I think is the 800lb gorilla in the middle of the room) is perhaps that Cox’s message just isn’t getting through to the players anymore. I mean, when teams have talent to win and they don’t win big games at big times, shouldn’t some of that be on the manager? I for one think we should stockpile as many starters as we can this offseason and just go for broke in 2008. Make sure it is the last hurrah for Bobby Cox and John Scheurholz; IT’S TIME TO MOVE IN ANOTHER DIRECTION!!!

By Thrillhouse44

September 11, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Maybe we can find “it” next year. Perhaps Julio will tell us where “it” is and we can send Chuck James on a recon mission to find “it”. (Assuming he isn’t working at a hardware store.) Actually, I’d send Soriano - who would mess with him? Even if the Mess caught him taking “it”, they would probably just let him have “it”. Ahhh…How much space can I waste writing about “it”? Too much - sorry everyone.

David Wright: My cousin went to high school with and played basketball with DW. He said he’s a good guy and has nothing bad to say about DW. Well I do: He’s a Met!

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Shaun, that Mets team in 1986 and the late 80s was stacked. Kevin “The Cat Beheading San Diego Gangsta” Mitchell and HoJo were only part time players in 1986.

They had 4 good closers on that 1986 team: McDowell, Orosco, Aguilera, and Randy Myers. Plus El Sid, Doc, Darling, Ojeda. With the Kid, Mex, Shuffle, the Lil Redneck, Nails, Straw, Mookie, Hojo, Ray Knight, Kevin Mitchell, George Foster, Elster, Magadan.

They later added Cone, Jeffries, McReynolds, Keith Miller, Mark Carreon, Randy Milligan, Frank Viola.

Chrissakes, Mets fans, you give Braves fans a hard time about only one World Series but you guys only won 2 division titles and one World Series with the collection of talent on those teams?!?!?!?!?

What a bunch of losers!

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Renteria for Marcum; Renteria for young arms from Detroit (maybe they’d be willing to part with Bonderman or Robertson?)… Those are the two teams with a definate need at shortstop (tigers moved Guillen to 1b) and with the financial means to get Renteria. They are also “close” to being real contenders in 2008 and 2009…

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

LOL! Hows this for an interesting little tidbit: Saltalamacchia just hit a BOMB off of Jose Capellan in the Tigers/Rangers game… Pretty interesting huh DOB?

By uga-brave

September 11, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

dob,

absolutely dead on. you summed up the whole sorry season.

any thoughts on the current coaching staff, not a lot of major league experience there. got a feeing there are a couple of young players here that need a kick in the butt more then a pat on the back.

By 22oz

September 11, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Simply put: “Bobbyball” is a big reason the Braves are where they are. Sit back and wait for the 3 run homer. They came close last night with a 2 run homer, but unfortunately, they missed a chance not bunting Edgar, which led to Huddy being picked off and Diaz striking out. Edgar is the only one who can actually bunt, and you don’t do it? Not only did the Braves not get the runs in, but they couldn’t even move them over. Sad and par for the course.

By PoliticalMan

September 11, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Even though it has been abundantly clear for quite a while that the Braves do have what it takes to be a top-four team in the NL, we have all been subjected to the endless talk about just wait for the next road trip, series, trade, blah, blah, blah. At least now, everyone is going to shut up.

No the Braves are not set on offence for next yr. Way too many strikeouts and inability to do small things. Cannot steal a base. Can’t have Francouer and Jones in same outfield. Too similar at bat. Absolutely no bench. Can’t make up mind about 2nd base.

Pitching. Well here we are. Finally. We just don’t have any. Bullpens are a dime a dozen right. That’s what they think. That’s what we got. A bullpen worth a dime. Starters we got two. One old guy. One guy who fades in and out.

Folks, you better get used to losing. The turnaround is nowhere in sight.

By Hoosier Aaron

September 11, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Last night was pretty much the season in a nutshell. No outs - runners on 1st & 2nd - down 1 - 0. Instead of having Edgar bunt, move two runners into scoring position. Edgar lines out to 3rd & Hudson gets picked off 2nd…no runs.

We must lead the league in bases loaded and no outs - and pretty much nothing to show for it. If it’s not a wild pitch or a walk we don’t score.

Get back playing fundamental baseball - move runners over and get them in.

How ‘bout a squeeze or a hit ‘n run every once in a while.

This team should be scoring 7 - 8 runs every night.

We are not putting a .500 team on the field - but they are playing .500 - very frustrating.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Braveheart The core of that Met Team was only together for about 4 or 5 years. Half of that time they spent chasing women and blow. They’d make the Cincinatti Bengals blush with the crap that was going on in that clubhouse. It started at the top too. Davey Johnson, Frank Howard and Vern Hosheit were absolute drunks. They shared a house together in Nassau county and used to frequent a bar I knew. A good friend of mine’s wife was a waitress there. Those guys would stay in the bar Every night until 4:00 am closing time absolutely polluted, even if they had a 1:00 game the next day - No Lie. That’s why Frank Cashen ran Davey Johnson out of town on a rail. He was running a frat house. Pro sports in the 80’s was a crazy place.

By Lee in S. GA

September 11, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

“He has inflammation of the lateral aspect of his elbow - the outside of his elbow - and he will be shut down until he is pain free,” trainer Kevin Rand said in a statement.”

Above information is the latest on Bonderman

Beware of Bonderman trade in the off-season. This is exactly what the Braves need … another sore arm pitcher.

By David

September 11, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Kills me as well that the Braves are so far out of it. Not that it’ll help win a game, but to add to yesterday’s blog topic…who’s ranked in the top 50. SI ranked the players before the season, with pitchers ranked separately from hitters…based on “projected performance.” The projections were off, in many cases… 27. Andruw 29. Tex 38. Chipper 51. McCann 96. Edgar 120. Frenchy 193. Johnson 205. Diaz 212. Thorman 248. Langerhans 396. Prado 13. Smoltz 38. Wickman 72. James 80. Hudson 106. Dotel 131. Redman 133. Gonzalez 144. Soriano 251. Cormier

By TennesseePaul

September 11, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: So true. However, first, find a team that needs a short stop of Renteria’s caliber. Second target a team that has a pitcher you desire. Third, see if there is a means of working a three way trade.
It isn’t improbable that Renteria could be moved for a pitcher. But it isn’t going to be simple.
This team is screwed if no pitching comes in. We have nice arms in the pen but that is pointless. We need better starters and we can’t develop better starters. Available free agent pitchers are on par with what we currently have so it will have to be done via trade. Otherwise, it’s another mediocre season for 2008.

By monty

September 11, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Instead of becoming more patient at the plate with so much at stake most of the guys have been over anxious to swing. Most of the time they don’t even swing at stikes. They get themselves out! This team has a bunch of emotional hitters. What I mean by that is they feed off of each other’s hitting.Hence their high batting averages and ability to score alot of runs at times when everybody is steamrolling along. But if nobody is hitting on a particular night, then it seems like batters come up trying to hit one out rather than trying to be patient and have a good at bat and grind it out.Joe Simpson said it best. In these high pressure type games when it’s do or die, a walk is a rally.Obviously most of the Braves think differently,I love those guys but they drive you crazy swinging at balls that aren’t even close to being strikes. THen when there is a close pitch with 2 stikes they take that one and cry when the ump calls it a stike. I was taught with 2 strikes anything close you’d better be swinging. These Brave seem to have been instructed to do the opposite of that and swing if it’s wild but take if it’s close!

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Any updates on Chippers injury?

Any updates on AJ? (not that i want him to play, i want to hear that he is done for the season)

I wonder if the front office is as clear as we are that 2 SPs are needed, not 1 but 2 and some experience (good) players.

I like prado on the bench, he has good defense, but he should be the worst player to be on the bench, not the leader of the pack.

And here i go again…….out Yunel in RF next year, and we have all positions covered just like that.

1.Yunel—-2. Edgar—-3. Chipper—-4.Tex—-5.McCan——6.Matt——7. Jeff——8.KJ

By Shaun

September 11, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Hoosier Aaron,

Edgar hit the ball hard. You really think it’s bad baseball to hit a line drive?

By wjones

September 11, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

I just read that the Jays resigned McDonald, so there goes the need for SS. Now if Glaus winds up suspended for steroids, might they want Edgar for 3B? Toronto is one of few teams that actually have a lot of starting pitching, but I just don’t see us getting better than a #3 for Edgar, no matter how many times people post it on here.

By rammerjammer

September 11, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

A difficult time is at hand, and it promises to become more difficult, if not sad.

We see this all the time in sports…the coach/manager staying around a little too long.

A leader long beloved, with so many accomplishments to his credit…but the last to realize his time has come…and now, gone.

DOB, you laid out some damning evidence for a verdict that reads, “this team was not ready to play and to win.”

Will the non-stop division titles return with a new field boss? Probably never. That was a combination of talent and luck.

But the Braves CAN become a fundamentally sound team again. They CAN succeed, but not without a bold move that signals “we mean business.”

That move is for Bobby Cox to retire at the end of this season.

Please…no barnyard noises or bathroom jokes. A new manager may be no more successful, but a new manager would hopefully instill baseball fundamentals in a team that is embarrassingly inept at the basics.

Fundamental soundness is the Braves’ best hope for greater success. Without the overwhelming rotation from back in the day, the new Braves must play pure baseball to win.

I hope Schuerholz has the courage of his convictions to do the right thing. No, take that back. I hope the manager himself looks in the mirror and says “It’s been a great ride, but it’s time for a change.”

By Frank Wren

September 11, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Best blog of the year! Most straight forward and honest… IMO it’s pretty sad that Time Warner screwed us this year. I think if they would have let us spend the few extra million on Tom Glavine it would have changed the season dramaticly for both the Mets and the Braves. The NL East would be a lot closer right now.

By Kenlevy_99

September 11, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Q: What’s with all these negative comments? The Braves are in the middle of a pennant race and surely will win the wild card if they can’t catch a break and win the division!!! (The Braves themselves don’t even believe that one)

A: Reality. The party is over. The fat lady has been singing loud and clear since the week after we got Tex. As Bobby and John surely realize, baseball (especially in October) is a pitcher’s game. 1 and 2 are good but we don’t have an effective 3,4, and 5. Mike Hampton next year is not the answer. Hopefully we’re not dumb enough to believe that Hampton is going to be effective in 08.

By mattyblunt

September 11, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

this “mut” fan doesn’t need to dwell on the past. at present time, the braves are on their way to another disapointing season. mortgage your future away for a run that falls short. tex and dotel weren’t the difference makers you were looking for. looks like the magic tomahawk has lost its luster. bring up all those division titles and ONe world series wins like a warm blanky. it’s ovaaaaa. i can’t wait till next year when andruw isn’t around to catch all those gappers. then we’ll see how good hudson and smoltz are.

By John

September 11, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Overlord Listen, I’m a met fan and I don’t read this blog looking to accepted into anything. I just admire the passion Braves fans have for their team. Also, Willie Randolph grew up a Mets fan, and also played for the Mets.

By AZBravoFan

September 11, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

DOB: At what point does the finger start to be pointed at TP? Don’t get me wrong, I love Pendleton. He was my favorite player on those early 90’s teams, I thought it was brilliant to bring him in as hitting instructor. But we’re talking about mounting strikeout totals, putrid bunting, uncannily poor situational hitting. Aren’t these things that the hitting coach should have some responsibility for? I realize he can’t go out there and swing the bat for them. And I know he’s been beating his head against the wall with Andruw. But could it be time for a new approach?

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Toronto signed McDonald for like $1.8mil per season… The guy had an OPS of like .650 this year, one of the bottom 5 worst in the league… I’ve already read reports that they signed him as a defensive backup and would only use him as their everyday SS in a “worst case scenario.” Trust me, Toronto is still looking for a shortstop (especially one that can hit - Toronto is next to last in runs scored in the AL)

By David O'Brien

September 11, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Overlord, clubhouse isn’t open for another 20 minutes and Braves PR person isn’t here yet. So no, no updates….

Wjones, that’s quite a reach there — Toronto trading for Edgar, who’s never played 3B, to fill their need at 3B, that is, IF they have a need IF Glaus is suspended for steroids.

By uga-brave

September 11, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

everyone is sure banking a lot on about 300 abs out of escobar. for what we owe renteria next year i think it would be foolish to trade a .300 hitter that is actually clutch.

trade renteria and say escobar gets hurt or johnson gets hurt we are hung. unless someone offers us a absolute proven #3 or their number 1 pitching prospect i say hold on to him.

worst case scenario, you tarde him at the deadline if we are out of the race.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

John mets fan then you are welcome and you will receive at least from me….. nothing but good manners…

I just hate mets fan that talk too much trash, seems its not your case.

Apologize if there are hard feelings.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 11, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

DOB

I break this downward trend into two categories.

#1) Pitching. - No surprise Retreads and maybes in the starting rotation don’t get it done. Smoltz is a warrior, but he’s getting older and I don’t believe that until recently that his shoulder was really even 80%.

In my mind the jury is still out on Hudson. Call me crazy but he seems to be breaking down as the season is progressing. I’m wondering if he just doesn’t have the stamina needed to pitch in the south.

I think Chuck James is going to have to figure out an out pitch besides his Change Up because as he got tired his fastball and changeup started looking very similar to hitters.

Hampton is swiss cheese. If they get anything from him it will be a bonus. We need someone in this rotation that changes the look from the starters. They all kind of throw the same. Smoltz - Mid Range Fastball, Slider, Sinker. Hudson - Mid-Range Fastball, Slider, Sinker. Cormier - Low Range Fastball, Slider, 2-8 Curveball.

We need an Oliver Perez type. Someone that can come in and get people out with a little mustard. A little cheese. I know they’re not a dime a dozen but do we have any arm in the minors like that? Don’t say Reyes because he doesn’t throw the Roechford like Perez.

#2) Situational hitting. This team hasn’t been the same since they lost Furcal.

They hardly ever steal. When they try to hit and run they swing and miss because the hitters don’t have a clue how to shorten their swings and put the ball in play. The poster children for this are Andruw Jones, (even though I like him) Kelly Johnson, and Willie Harris (The left fielder that thinks he’s a power hitter. I’m going to call him Willie Hayes from now on).

I think its a given that Andruws gone. And given Willie’s late season tail-off he might not be back either. But I think the player’s they target to replace them have to be faster and better slap hitters. I want to see a Reyes type on this team. One that pressures the opposing defenses. One that will get on base and make the opposing pitcher afraid of you on the paths.

Nobody on this team is someone you would fear as far as running the bases. I know Bobby Cox is the king of station to station baseball but he didn’t use to be. Back when he had Otis and then Furcal he would pressure the defenses with steals and timely hit and runs. Or bunts for hits.

I want that type of team back. Is there anyone in the minors that fits that mold that can play Center or Left Field?

By JLAHATTE

September 11, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

I love this braves blogging and the braves. I am in new orleans and after hurricane Katrina hit, having to live with my in-laws,kids and three dogs in a small apartment for six months, the only thing that saved my sanity was to go outside and listen the the braves on satellite radio..we need a third starter.. i love Hampton but he is not the answer.. we really need a fourth also.I hated to see the Braves throw in Beau Jones at the end of the Tex trade. he is local and i believe the real deal.. sign Andrew to a one year deal so he can move on with bobby at the end of 2008. GO BRAVES..

By David O'Brien

September 11, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Shaun, agreed on Edgar last night — he hit a line drive. Someone must not have been watching the game.

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

September 11, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Hoosier Aaron,

Exactly what aspect of Hudson’s stellar baserunning inspires your confidence that Renteria could have bunted him over to third successfully? The fact that Hudson almost was doubled off on Renteria’s line drive? The fact that Perez picked him off when he strayed too far off the bag (the catalyst for another classic Braves whine, by the way — Hudson takes a 25-foot lead off third and expects professional courtesy from the opposing pitcher in a one-run game)?

If you’re asking a .330 hitter to sacrifice a pitcher over to third in a Chipper-less batting order, his run had better be pretty damned important. And IF the run is that important, pinch-run for your pitcher with someone who actually knows how to run the bases.

Renteria did what he should have done. He hit the ball hard. Unfortunately, he hit the ball hard right at someone. But it’s all on Hudson — not Cox — that a golden scoring chance subsequently went by the boards.

By Joe Schmoe

September 11, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

DOB…

Gotta agree with your assessment here. As much as I kind of quiver when I hear someone say they have an “it” factor, I’m not sure there is any other way to describe this season.

On paper, the Braves may not look as good as the Mets, but definitely as good as some other playoff teams like the Brewers, Diamondbacks, Dodgers, etc. You know, I’m a big Braves fan, a huge homer, and an eternal optimist so I’m not ready to give up yet…but the writing on the wall is getting bigger. It just seems like this year they’ve been unlucky(as evidenced by the W-L record) and it isn’t the year they put it together.

Having said that, I see no reason to not be excited about the talent in place for next year. This doom and gloom stuff is ridiculous and annoying.

Next years lineup(barring any major offseason/spring training injuries or trades) could be even better. I mean, the one player not under contract is the one player having the worst year. If we bring in any of the mid-level CF(Cameron, Rowand, even Bradley, etc.) to replace him, we could be looking at an upgrade based on this years numbers.

Kelly emerged as a very good player after having an entire year off and should only get better. Francoeur took massive steps forward and hopefully will continue to do so. McCann can flat out hit…period. Chipper’s bat doesn’t age, just his body. You have to figure B. Jones will be as effective throughout the year in the LF platoon as Harris has been, but with more pop. Oh yeah, Tex will be here the entire year and there’s the fact that we have 3 major league shortstops to deal with.

I had my doubts about Escobar, but the guy continues to make adjustments. I didn’t think he’d walk enough, but now looks like he could get on base as much as Edgar has, you just have to deal with losing the power. Plus, if you deal Edgar and Yunel falters, you still have Lillibridge. With so few free agent SS’s and so many teams looking for one(Detroit, CWS, Toronto, St. Louis, etc.), Edgar could bring us some pitching. We’re not talking Verlander or Halladay here, just something better than Buddy Carlisle and maybe a bullpen arm.

Seriously, the core of this team is beyond solid and with 2-3 sensible moves you could be looking at a 10 win swing and at the least a Wild Card birth.

What’s the problem?

By Runner

September 11, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Excellent article, Dave. Why can’t we draft and home grow some pitchers of our own? We’re laoded with catchers and infielders but in this year’s draft we only picked one pitcher? At Richmond our top two prospects for the bigs have sore arms. Jo Jo is a call up from double A and Bobby will ruin him if he stays in the bigs next year. Let him go to AAA and get as much confidence as he had at Mississippi then look for him in ‘09. In the meantime there is only trade, rent, or buy pitching from other teams. If anyone can pull a rabbit out of the hat, JS can. But the hat may not have anything in it. If/when AJ goes, and we can’t count of Hampton, and CJ only plays 100 games a year, and Gonzo may or may not make it back…looks like we’ll play a lot of little ball and 3 run homer games and lament again. Ohhh to have the good old days when all we had to worry about was if Sheffield was a “good” person if and we should sign him.

By Vinnie Boombotz

September 11, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Overlord,

You’re an idiot. Nuf said.

No miracles this year, buddy. Just another stake in the heart of Atlanta. Have fun watching the Mets play on your station during playoff time. Maybe your sad sack team will learn something about heart.

By David O'Brien

September 11, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

By the way, it’s drizzly/rainy here, has been all day. But I think it’s supposed to clear before gametime.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 11, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Finally, a blog column that deals with facts and figures rather and IF’S and MAYBE scenarios. I’ve been saying for the last two seasons. Minaya has transforming the organization from the inside out. In the prior 15-20 years we were doing it the other way around and the results speak for themselves. Of course it helps to have the funds to keeps good teams together. Just look at the braves when they were owned by Ted Turner. Sure they had a lot of homegrown talent but it took capital to keep it together and fill in the gaps with quality players. That philosophy brought 14 straight division championships to Atlanta and the Mets hope to get comprable results in the years to come.

By J.D. Phillips

September 11, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

It may be worth considering who won’t be back on this team next year. That will be an improvement within itself. Gone are Woodward, Carlyle, Orr and Miller. Possible goners are Thorman and Harris. And what team have you ever know that keeps the exact same bullpen from year to year. At least 2 of the relievers will be gone.

By wjones

September 11, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

DOB, I was just responding to an earlier post about sending Edgar to Toronto, with McDonald being a free agent. McDonald’s defense is much better, apparently, than Edgar’s, and Edgar’s bat is obviously better than McDonald’s. Edgar is 32, certainly not over the hill, but 3B is where good-hitting SS’s go when they can’t do SS anymore. He certainly can’t move to 3b with the Braves. Maybe considering what DonCoburleone just posted about McDonald being a defensive backup, that might be a good situation for Edgar, as well as a fallback for Toronto if something does happen to Glaus. I didn’t conjure up the Toronto scenario, but after reading it, it makes some sense, as Toronto does have some pitching depth.

By David O'Brien

September 11, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

By the way, my late-night fatigue screwup on wording of Chipper injury in Braves notebook, which I just noticed. Bobby said “doubtful” for rest of the series when I asked him, not for rest of season. My bad.

Chipper had said could be couple days, could be a week.

Anyway, I’ll have an update for you in a while. Going to clubhouse now.

By uga-brave

September 11, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

some guys need to look in the mirror instead of crying to the press about this or that, or about how we cant get a break , or how its not my fault when i get thrown out of a game for arguing balls and stkikes.

some guys need to realize that since they are being counted on to be leaders young or not, you lead by example. some players since they have been full time players for 2 1/2 years have .500 records in the bigs. TALK IS CHEAP.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 11, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

I meant “comparable” results

By Mr. Giles

September 11, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Enjoy watching me play also. I will make the team pdiddy123 or ppaddy345 or whatever you go by.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Learn something from the muts?

Maybe we have been doing that lately and that why we have sucked so much lately.

And you are right, no miracles this year… Muts need more of something in order to run their miracle show up again.

Sorry muts, maybe next year, just keep dreaming, im sure the yankees, angels, bosox or indians will wake u up when everything is over.

But 1st you have to show the NL that you are not as mediocre as the rest of them (or us).

Its amazing how can 2 mediocre seasons just above average performances by the muts can boost their fans self esteem.

Ill be glad to watch you AAA team try to wash all the mud they have accumulated over the last 20 years.

Failure is on the horizon!!!

LOL.

By Shaun

September 11, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Hate to say it, but if you are itching to place blame on someone for the Braves season, look to the front office. The Braves are playing about as good as we’d have reasonably expected on paper, as they say.

Here are some pre-season projections based on very rich and detailed forecasting systems:

Hardball Times - 82-80

DiamondMind - 84-78

Baseball Prospectus - 82-80

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/five-questions-atlanta-braves2/

Yep, Braves are right were they should be on paper, contrary to the beliefs of some that they are under-performing based on their talent level. They are, in fact, not.

By True Braves Fan

September 11, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

DOB…Good, accurate blog. In short, this team has too much talent to have this bad a record. I wish I knew what to do about it. (Besides throw a lot of money at the problem, but the Yankees should illustrate that that does not always solve the problem.) Hopefully JS and the brain trust can come up with something over the winter.

By A Jones 25

September 11, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

How did y’all like our lineup last night without me and Chip? Get used to it.

How does Bobby and the Home Boy still have only 4 OFers even after the callups? Little Willie against lefties is a joke.

I told you long ago we packed it in. You fans definetly care about winning a lot more then we do. Win or lose we collect our checks. I think I will buy another luxury car, just because I can.

By jay

September 11, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

OVERLORD? As a Met fan, reading your comments brought joy to my day. First let me say that the only reason I even read this blog is because the majority of you guys are cool. But every now and then you find an “overlord” who spends his days jerking his “tomahawk” painted chicken.

If you think the Braves are some kind of baseball diety, or some elite, historic team then you are wrong.

Simple numbers;

Atlanta Braves 1966-2007 1 World series Ring

New York Mets 1962-2007 2 World series Rings

Did Atlanta celebrate when the 1957 Milwaukee Braves won? NO How about the 1914 Boston Braves? NO

I’m not counting the 1884 New York Metropolitans Championship so you don’t get Boston’s or Milwaukee’s Championships.

The Braves had a hell of a run from 1991-2005. It’s historic DIVISION play. But real teams make their bones in the playoffs. The Mets aren’t there and the Braves, having played 131 years of baseball, have NEVER been there.

“OVERJERK” the Miracle Mets are called that because they are the first EXPANSION team to ever win a Major Sports Championship. Thats NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, the Mets were the FIRST to win a Championship.

The Braves assembled a team that will be regarded as having the greatest starters ever on one team. The best defensive CF in history. One of, if not the best Third Baseman in the history of the National League and perhaps the best Manager/GM combo in sports history.

And what is in your trophy case? One World Series and 14 Division Titles, over what history will show were two teams that were being run as putrid as could be and an EXPANSION team that won MORE World Series Titles than the Braves did in the same time-frame.

I don’t care what any of you say about the Mets. But don’t talk about how the Braves are the “elite” of baseball. BULL.

God gave your team everything and you still found away to p** it down the toilet.

The REAL history of the Braves is that there were GREATS everywhere in this team and it produced nothing truly great at all. The history is that the Braves waisted it’s chances to be a Legendary Team.

Every single one of your great players from this era will have their own EPSN Sports Century episode, where they will struggle to find the answer as to why they only won one World Series.

But they’ll always have those meaningful wins over the Mets to hang their hat on.

PATHETIC.

The Mets are no where in terms of history, but the Braves have a bunch of Hall of Famers who did not surpass the 45 year history of the Mets.

PATHETIC, AGAIN.

That Brave fans actually take solice in beating the Mets during your run is ridiculous. The Mets never posed a threat to you and didn’t produce a single hall of fame player during that time. The REAL elite team, The Yankees, don’t cheer when they beat a team they should beat. The Braves were MUCH better than those Met teams. It was never close. But if thats the feather in the cap that makes your lives full then have at it.

All your Division Titles are “sound and fury, signifying NOTHING”

And the same goes for the Mets if they don’t win World Series rings.

It makes me laugh, the way you beat your chests over my Mets. Because after all this time beating the Mets is still ALL the Braves EVER won.

You ARE the Champions.

By Daybed Wagmoe

September 11, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

9.5 back in the division, 5 back in the wild card…

at this point i’m rooting for a .500 season and hoping that we get some legit starting pitching in the offseason.

By BRAVES FAN

September 11, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

The muts suck,not only are they not the best team in the NL,they are not even the best team in their division.The muts are barely playing .500 ball against the NL east,they beat up on the central division teams(which is the WORST division in baseball)and struggle to play .500 ball against the rest of the NL teams.I mean damn as much as they have beat up on the braves lately they may not even win the season series against us because if my math is correct the season series after last night is 8 wins for the BRAVOS and 8 wins for the muts.Which brings me back to my point earlier not only are the muts not the best team in the NL they are not the best division in the east.

By Bob, Journalist

September 11, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Richard Boone’s fast draw may have slowed over the years but his aim seems as steady as ever … as evidenced by his observation that Larry’s perceived penchant for taking time off at the drop of a shoe may have had some basis in fact … since the practice disappeared when a simple, non-existent misunderstanding was quickly and quietly resolved.

Methinks there are some folks who just don’t like to play when they don’t think they can win … just as there are some fans who lose interest in teams they think will lose.

Both Chipper and the Braves should do fine in 2008.

Of course, having Larry, Kelly, and Andruw all unable to play in an extremely crucial, initial tone setting game of an important series was really bad luck.

It still ain’t over …

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

Overlord - Are you aware how pathetic, frightened, and desperate you sound? I honestly wonder sometimes if a) English is your first language, and b) if you are p* drunk most of the time when you write.

By Mad Bomber

September 11, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

There is a bomb set to go off in here in 30 seconds. Meet your maker, infidels!

Note to self: Even if we get a 100% kill-rate we will only get 2 or 3 that know sh!t about baseball. Next time, use gas.

By ChampDawg

September 11, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

I like this team- even Andruw if he will stay for the right kind of money. I like Harris, Esco, Rent, Tex, Frenchy, Brian, Diaz, Chipper, KJ, etc. hopefully be can keep them all becuase the offense is potent enough. Just go get some pitching.

By Larry Jones

September 11, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

ChipDip:

That may have been one of the worst, incoherent ramblings these eyes have ever seen. I’m embarassed for you and your entire lineage. My goodness, you need to go back to school boy

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Its good to see how some true can make a muts fan body pump some adrenaline.

Nice.

JAY, what i wrote i wrote because your “pals” come here and type some trash here… so dont take it personal, if you think you come here to talk baseball and not trash, welcome to the blog….. nice to have real baseball fans from other teams, opinions. PEACE….

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

BRAVES FAN Um…the Mets have the highest winning percentage in the National League. That means they are the best team in that league. The Mets have six more wins than the second-place team in the NL East. That means they are the best team in the division. Do you see how that works? The Braves are barely over .500 and will miss the playoffs again. That means they suck. See? Simple.

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry. I don’t remember all this cocky arrogance being spewed when you were swept by Philly and Colorado.

BTW, great trade of that Bannister kid. How’s that one working for ya?

Yep, trade a good young pitcher. But you guys are gonna be great for years? With who? Glavine, Duque? Pelfrey? We call Pelfrey Kyle Davies. Oliver Perez? You trusting him beyond this year? Evidently, maybe not even in the postseason. John Maine? He was traded for a mediocre bust like Anna Benson for a reason. Billy Wagner? He’s already talking retirement. When players start talking retirement, you need to cut them loose. Players only talk retirement when their heart is not in it as much anymore. Can’t have your foot halfway in and out the door. YOu’re either in or you are out. Alou is old. Green is old. Milledge is not what you all think he is. Delgado is done. Loduca is a goner. Castillo is in decline.

There is no way the Mets beat the Padres or DBacks in the postseason.

At the end of the day, all the Mets have for the future are two people: Jose Reyes and David Wright. Two players does not a dynasty make.

Sorry to tell you but this year is it. Ya better win, which you won’t.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Mutsfan Do you realize how little we care about how Overlord sounds to you? If he is getting to you enough for you to comment, he is doing a good job. Keep it up, Overlord.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Im drunk……. im always drunk……

I like this……..its fun to read you mets fan.

pathetic, frightened, and desperate

Wow, did u find out all this by yourself or did sherlock holmes help you?

And if you have problems understanding me, maybe i can send you mails in some other language.

By uga-brave

September 11, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

hate to agree with a mets fan but that post by JAY had a couple of valid points.

my main hatred of the mets came courtesy of one person. there was no one in baseball that i loathed more then BOBBY VALENTINE. got more pleasure in beating him, not the mets. nothing better then watching him twist and cry in the dugout. same thing can be said of BOWA and his stint with the phillies.

there is just something wrong when the manager is the first person out of the dugout after a walkoff win.

By Kentavo

September 11, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Bring up the kids!!!!!!!!!

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Welcome back to the day-shift, BobJ and thank you for the kind word. Best to your lady and I hope she is feeling “chipper”.

By Lew

September 11, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Jay-You’re absolutely correct. No matter what, we will always have kicking the Mets @$$e$ for years to think about in our dottage. What a pleasant memory it isw, too. Oh yeah-Come back after the first week or so of October and tell us just how wonderful it feels to be taken out by the Padres, the Wild Card team who the Mets have gone 2-4 against this year. Y’all won’t be playing the NL Central-the only division you can do better than break even against. Ha. Let’s hear how great the Mets are then. Maybe y’all should save your energy for teaching Beltran to hit a breaking ball without looking like he wet his pants. He did it again last night against Manny Acosta. Pathetic-like most of the Mets fans.

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Paladin I get the sense that, every time you post in defense of the Braves, a little bit of pee comes out. And if by “getting to me,” you mean “making me laugh really hard,” then yes—Overlord is getting to me. Go back and read jay’s post—best commentary ever on this board. Even uga-brave knows he’s right. Maybe even someone like you who knows nothing about baseball will understand parts of it. Your bluster is pretty ridiculous for a guy whose team is pitching Buddy Carlyle tonight.

By ncscoots

September 11, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

TPaul, spot on. A three-way deal just makes moving the guy even more difficult. Though, this winter, that might actually prove easier than a standard fit. Who knows?

My other note is this: many bloggers seem ready and willing to lose a LOT of offense, if only the pitching were better next year. News flash: it’s unlikely that one or two pitching acquistions will turn next year’s 12-man staff into a sub-3.50 group overnight. That means the team still needs to score in the 830+ runs range to win consistently, and some folks here are ready to start two rooks in the OF, two second-year players in the IF, and third-year players at RF and C. Does that sound like a recipe for consistent offense? Not to me.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

*the Mets have the highest winning percentage in the National League. That means they are the best team in that league. *

Wonder how the phillies could beat so easily the best team in the NL 4 times in a row. The league must check on that one. Maybe that makes the phillies the best team in the NL.

AZ has the same number of wins than the mets, only 2 more losses. So is it fair to say that the DBacks are almost as good as the mets, right? The difference is just 0.007 points.

That says it all. Not to make anyone feel bad at all or anything.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 11, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, That’s the same regurgitated nonsense we heard the begining of last year and this year. Can you come up with some new material. You must be stupid or something. But the saddest part is this. Next year, when the Mets are winning the division again, you’ll be saying the same s-h-i-t.

By Don

September 11, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

DOB, you sound like a man who is mad and ain’t gonna take it anymore. Then, good! I’m sick of this year’s team. Heck, last year’s team was more watchable, they were outmanned but still played better than .500 after the All-Star break.

There are too many players and coaches on this team that aren’t having good years. The starting pitching is weak, but you pegged it, the offense has failed the team repeatedly since the Teixeira trade. Go figure, that move should have strengthed this team dramatically.

Maybe it time for more heads to roll because this team is a big underachiever.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, how about having a credentials check? The enemy, in entirely too many numbers, is amongst us. And with the rain and all, there is an unpleasant wet-mut smell in here.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Appreciate the support Paladin.

I know some of the mets fans come here in peace and looking for some sports talk, and that are good people, but a great number of them just bark louder than my dog.

By Still hate the Mets

September 11, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Chipper- Don’t come back this year. Nurse your injuries and we will see you in spring training. You have obviously quit when it gets tough again so just let the kids play until next year.

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Um…Overlord? That’s EXACTLY how it works. It’s a win-loss system. So yes, The Diamondbacks are almost as good as the Mets right now, because their record is almost as good. I can’t make the language any simpler for you than that. And going by your logic, the Mets are FAR SUPERIOR to the Braves, because they’ve beaten the Braves the past four games in a row. Fortunately, you’d have to be an idiot to think that ANY team would be judged on a random four-game sample as opposed to a team’s record over the course of a season. An idiot—or you. Either one is fine.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon brave bloggers. Dont forget Hudson plunked Gotay yesterday out of frustration. Dont be suprised if a braves hitter gets plunked today to set things straight. I know, what about Pelfrey hitting Frenchy a couple of weekends ago. Well you should have retaliated then. I’m just worried that with the braves frustrations may take over and start a bench clearing brawl to: 1) Hype up the braves. 2) Try to get as many METS suspended (or hurt) as possible. Tell Booby to stay in the dugout before Pedro tries to break his record on the old fogie rugby toss!!! (just ask Zimmer)

LETS GO METS!!!

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Mutsfan My “bluster” is very appropriate for a Braves blog. Your barely-coherent blatherings, on the other hand, are unnecessary, inappropriate and uninteresting. For starters.

By mo in the boonies

September 11, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

We couldn’t see the game last night but it sounds like we didn’t miss much. Won’t be able to see a game until Wed. night. :(

Have some comments for some bloggers from last night and this morning.

Overlord Please do not give your dog the bones after Thanksgiving dinner. They tend to splinter, and are as sharp as needles, and can perforate the dog’s intestines, and cause extreme pain and death. Feed him a little ham and turkey instead. He will love you for it. :)

* Braveheart*, was surprised to read your 8:13 pm post last night. Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you the same man, who won a Wurlitzer for his long and glowing praise of BC and the team, just a few weeks ago. Have you too begun to see the light?

* Efrim* Get another backup catcher, what we have isn’t good enough? Hmmmm…..seems like we just got rid of an excellent catcher.

Runner You have a lot more confidence in JS than I do, and as for the braves not having any pitchers in the farm club, maybe it is time that JS tries to draft some one besides just Georgia guys. The Tigers recruit their starters from all over the country, as I’m sure many other teams do.

Can someone tell me why Joe Simpson wasn’t in the booth on Sunday, and why Tony Gwinn was? He might have been a great ball player, but an announcer, he ain’t! And for heaven’s sake, can they please keep the cameras on the playing field, and not in the booth during long winded stories? TBS was beginning to look a lot like ESPN on Sunday. (Not something to be desired!)

By jay

September 11, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Overlord

I can admit that some Met fans are overbearing to say the least.

BRAVESFAN, here’s some numbers for you

Braves; East: 32-29 Central: 18-17 (1-6 vs. Cin) West: 19-14 Inter: 4-11

Mets East: 29-25 (18 remain vs.East, 13 vs. Wash and FLA) Central: 28-11 West: 17-18 Inter: 8-7

Philly: East: 32-27 Central: 23-15 West: 13-18 Inter: 8-7

It seems to me that all of baseball has beat up on the NL Central except the Braves.

Your season was lost against the REDS. How do you not beat the REDS?

And the best way to gauge good teams from the National League is Interleague Play where the Braves are 4-11 and the Mets and Philly are 8-7.

Lets recap BRAVESFAN Braves 4-11 against the A-League Braves 18-17 against the D-League

There you have a team that Sucks as you say.

By Wayne in Utah

September 11, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Metro Man

Personally, I think Bobby could take Pedro!

:-)

By Mark

September 11, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

DOB- Just heard on ESPN radio that Bobby Cox calls Chipper’s return this year doubtful. Is that your doing or did he really say that?

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

What i dont get then is how a far superior team like the muts, lost 4 in a row against the phillies.

Doesnt makes sense, not even in an idiot world.

One more thing, I dont get how a farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr superior team was 4-8 the first 5 months of the season against a faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrr inferior team.

I just cant understand, i must be an idiot, oh god, am i becoming a muts fan or something???

By uga-brave

September 11, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

nothing is worse then a tank top wearing, blue jean short wearing, mullet wearing, mets fan with two gold chains and a nugget ring. come to think about i just described the typical GATOR fan too. TWO for the price of one.

By Wayne in Utah

September 11, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Overlord: I am surprised I am saying this, but without Brandon Jones or Gregor Blanco around to pick up some AB’s, I kinda hope AJ is back in the lineup tonight.

Willie Harris is more of a strikeout threat than Corey Patterson, who I was ripped a week ago for suggesting might be a decent CF placeholder until Jordan Schafer arrived on the sceen in 2009 or 2010.

Whaddya think?

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

And yet, Paladin, judging by your standard, there MUST be something to what I’m saying to have provoked such a reaction from you. Maybe you need to spend your time coming up with better excuses why the Braves suck—you know, “it’s the umpires’ fault” (Chipper), or…”pitchers aren’t supposed to pick off other pitchers” (Hudson). So sad.

By Lane Tucker

September 11, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Divisional titles mean nothing in the Bud Selig Wild Card Era, so the claim of 13 straight means nothing. Most people can’t name who won the NBA eastern Divison or the NFC north Division, but they can name the Superbowl or NBA champ.

In the past 10 seasons the The Braves have won exactly as many World Series as the METS - NONE

The Braves are underachievers in the classic mold, Led by an underachieving manager who should have been fired in 1993

By Braves20

September 11, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

DOB hit it - this team strikes out too much and fails miserably at situational hitting.

We need a true lead-off hitter. Don’t see it on the current roster or in the minors. Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate - get rid of one of our 20 home run 120 strikeout guys and get a 5 homer, 70 base on balls, 20 steal guy - not to mention the obvious need for a #3 starter - and perhaps someone to hit in the four hole who can deliver in the clutch as well as in 9-3 games.

Seems like serious re-tooling is in order this winter.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 11, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien , dead on , I just wish you had posted this a month or more sooner. When this team needed a kick in the pants all they got was a pat on the back from Cox. Only eighteen more to endure and we can put this season behind us. At least we have the Richmond Braves to root for in the playoffs.

By jay

September 11, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Lew- Bask in those memories as I bask in the reality that the Mets have swept the Braves season away two years in a row, in ATL!

If we lose in the playoffs. Hey atleat we matched the historic braves.

By Hai Kurate

September 11, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Bloggers say, “Braves suck!”

Shaun: “They’ve met expectations!”

Someone’s full of crap.

By Wayne in Utah

September 11, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

If Chipper doesn’t make it back for a while, I would like to see what Brayan Pena has at third base.

Is Richmond still in the playoffs? When can we get some fresh meat up here?

I like the possibility of dealing a SS to Toronto for one of their two young pitchers (Marcum or McGowan).

Would they take Renteria and Villarreal? (throw in Willie H!!!)

By Lew

September 11, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

You know what strikes me as odd? Whenever the Mets Trolls come here to Mr.O’Brien’s Neighborhood, practically demanding that we Braves fans wallow in our wretchedness, we consistently hear about the 14 consecutive Division Championships and only one WS win- As if we should feel ashamed for winning more games than any other team during that time period (and consequently kicking severe Mets’ booty in the process). We also hear quite frequently how even the lowly Marlins have won two WS Championships to our one in that time.

Now the odd thing is that (two things, actually) that we never hear are A. The Mets have Zero WS Championships in that time frame and One Division Title (You know that thing y’all claim has no meaning?- Congratulations on all that winning baseball, BTW) and B. The Yankees have 9 Divison Tiles and 4 WS Championships in that time frame. Gee. Why don’t the Mets’ Fans ever mention the Yankees? Could it be Penis Envy? Could it be because that would be tacit acknowledgment of the Mets’ B******* Step Child status in their own home town? Come on Y’all, enquiring minds want to know. Is it also necessary to point out that you haven’t won your second division tile yet? Do you need us to jog your memory about the results from last year? You know, the fact you never made it to the WS to begin with and the one time you did during our winning streak that the Yankees kicked your @$$e@?

By Di from NY

September 11, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

I have been a die hard Met Fan since I was little and had nothing against the Braves until such incidents of John Rocker coming into the visiting teams town, the NY Mets talking trash and expressing his racist comments and he was excused for that by the Braves and their fans because he was a “great pitcher”, then all of the Championships and the “Good Years” the Braves had and how conceited and arrogant they were towards the rest of the league, thats when you saw the Braves fans “loving their team”…that arrogance still exists today….I attended a game when the NY Mets were in town this past series and was very disappointed in the “Sportsmanship” presented by the Braves organization and its fans, it was a blast to the NY Mets during the pregame when they doing the introduction of the teams and how there was nothing positive but a ridiculously negative portrayal of the Mets…I have never seen anything like that at Shea…You Fairweather Braves fans who give up on your team just because they didnt make it to the October Classic are pathetic. Ask a New Yorker who has followed those Miracle Mets through it all if they ever stopped Believing…Give credit where credit is due…The Mets are the Better team this year and they will go all the way to the earn another Championship. So you can take your “Tomahawk Hand Chops” and put them away for the next season…This is the Season for the NY Mets, who are THE BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL…LETS GO METS, YA GOTTA BELIEVE, OUR SEASON HAS ARRIVED…..

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

Mutsfan No, you are a Muts fan and that is all it takes to provoke me. Now, if I throw a stick, will you go away?

By Kentavo

September 11, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Here’s what to do about it (and without just throwing money at the problem):

1. Let Andruw walk - sign Tex to extension before he hits open market
2. Don’t even think about re-signing Woodward
3. Can T.P. and hire Julio as hitting coach
4. Can McDowell, rehire Leo
5. Get some real major league bench players so Cox won’t use light hitting utility infielders in key ph situations. What about Mike Lamb who could backup both corners and can hit?
6. Hire an instructor to come in and drill everyone on the fundamentals (since Cox won’t do it), including bunting practice and baserunning (especially for the pitchers)
7. Mix in some more youth - Brandon Jones, Brent Lillebridge
8. Make a trade (perhaps parting with Edgar) for dependable starting pitcher
9. Sign another free agent starting pitcher (what about Schilling?)

By Wayne in Utah

September 11, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Is anybody else worried about our “Buddy” getting it done tonight?

Let’s hope Jo-Jo is warmed up and ready.

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

oh, Lew. Whenever a Braves fan is really desperate, he pulls out the old “Yankees are more popular than the Mets” taunt. Of course, he completely forgets that NY can support TWO major league teams, while the Braves can’t even sell out playoff games as the only baseball team in its hometown. Empty seats. For playoff games. Apparently you can’t drag the people of Atlanta to watch the Braves play.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 11, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Take the Blue Jays off the list of teams needing a SS. John McDonald just signed a multi-year deal for 2008-2009.

By Gayle Abbott

September 11, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

This is a .500 team campers and it will get worse until ownership shuts down, retools and forgets about this foolish “run” that has yielded one, yes just one, championship. The problem is, if the team drops much below .500, the almighty dollar comes in to play. As long as this team can tease the fans with the fantasy of a championship run, the attendance - and the dollars - will remain.

Show some stones, shut it down, let the geezers go and start over.

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

Paladin - No, but if you eat a stick, I’ll know you’re an Atlanta fan.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

METS FAN just promise you will come blog with us once your “team” gets its a$$ kicked, not that i like you or something, im just asking this weeks ahead knowing that im sure you wont come here and tell us how good your mets are in late oct.

Wayne, why would you want AJ taking ABs??? willie has been on base 3 of the last 4 games, AJ in 2 of his last 4. Besides, i dont have to watch AJ smiles after he KKKKKKs on a pitch on the dirt.

By Mark

September 11, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

Mets Fans— Why are you here? Nobody wants you here. Go talk with your people about your team and let us worry about ours. We suck this year. What do you want us to say? Win 12 more and then come back and run your mouth all you want. This is a BRAVES blog. GO AWAY!

By foretoon-cookie

September 11, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

“Muts fans suffer from delusions of adequacy.”

By jay

September 11, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

LEW

You are exactly right. Met fans don’t think twice about the Braves. Your not even on our radar when it comes to hatred. But here is the key that Brave fans don’t know.

From 1984-1992 The Yankee fan was in baseball obscurity. No where to be found in New York was a Yankee bar, or a Yankees team in the news.

Since 1995 it’s been all Yankees. But guess what. The Mets are the only team EVER in baseball to wipe the Yankees off the map and Yankee fans are scared to death it may happen again.

That is the Met fans rivalry. There is PURE hatred between Met and Yankee fans. Nothing even close to the Braves because back then the Mets weren’t even close to the Braves.

The fact that the Braves really didn’t stand out during their run deflates the rivalry even more.

So to me its just funny that all Brave fans talk about is how much they hate the Mets when we don’t hate you cats at all.

We hate Chipper for sure but outside of him…BLAH. When Chipper leaves so will the rivalry that never was.

By the way, LEW, those same Yankees beat your HISTORIC braves TWICE in the World Series and TOOK the Americas Team of the Decade that you were calling yourselves and s* on it.

So, why do Brave fans hate the Mets so much when Yankee fans actually TOOK the Braves destiny from them by FORCE!!!

Strange…odd as you say

By Kentavo

September 11, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

This is to all Mets fans: this is a Braves blog - go back to NY or NJ or whatever turnpike exit you’re from. Go back to your Mets blog. But I guess the blogs are just a microcosm - you can’t stay in your crappy burg so you have to move South and now you’re trying to take over our blog, too. If NY is so great, then stay there, eat your bagels and fold-over pizza and shut the f@@@ up!

By Kentavo

September 11, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

This is to all Mets fans: this is a Braves blog - go back to NY or NJ or whatever turnpike exit you’re from. Go back to your Mets blog. But I guess the blogs are just a microcosm - you can’t stay in your crappy burg so you have to move South and now you’re trying to take over our blog, too. If NY is so great, then stay there, eat your bagels and fold-over pizza and shut the f@@@ up!

By BRAVES FAN

September 11, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

jay Thanks for looking up those numbers for me I really did not feel like finding them again.And thank you also for helping me make my point,I did not expect A true muts fan to get it the first time so I will explain it again,ok:who are the muts going to be playing in the LDS?probably a central division team right.Ok and lets assume they win the division series,who do they play now?I know it sounds elementary but folks you have to realize this is a muts fan.Back to the question,they will be playing either the braves or a team from the west and do not laugh because if we get in(which the cardinals proved last year that anything can happen)we have a better chance of winning because we actually have a winning record against the western division.And what is the muts record against the western division?well lets just say it is not good.So how can you be the best team in your league and have a sub .500 record against a division in your league.

By jay

September 11, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

MARK

We are here because D.O.B PAYS US!!! Didn’t you get the text?

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Mo from the Boonies, what you don’t understand is that I criticize Cox more and better than most of you. I also defend him. It’s not coming around to see the light. What you misinterpret is that I am tired of the childish chumps who try to make a lone gunman Oswald patsy out of Cox. I can give a thousand reasons why Cox is not a good manager but also give a thousand more as to why he is a good manager. I just don’t want to hear anymore of the childish crap. Talk about issues. It’s more fun that way instead of calling him names. I like to learn from people on here when they provide examples and analysis. I already know how to call someone every freaking name in the book and I frequently do on here. But I don’t learn anything when people resort to name calling.

By Mike

September 11, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

Ok, im dissapointed in how everything turned out this year given the talent on the braves roster but a few tweeks and the braves will be in the postseason next year. As much as i hate to say it, its time for chipper to move on. Im as a big of fan of chipper as anybody, hes as loyal a player as you’re ever going to find and the fact that he renegotiated his contract for less money will always leave braves fans with great memories of him. But given that he can only play 110 games a season, the braves wont ever be in the postseason with their superstar missing over 50 games a year. Imagine the yankees without Jeter for fifty games, or the cardinals without pujols, or the mets without reyes or wright for fifty games. You cant compete, not with the talent in the east. The phillies and mets are getting better every year and the braves now have to adjust because they just cant show up and intimidate with their name anymore. If I were GM I would trade Chipper to the Yankees for ARod. Think about it, ARod’s probably going to opt out of his contract so why wouldnt the yankees trade him. Chipper would be great for them given that when he plays his numbers are just as good as anybodys. And he’ll play more games in the AL because he doesnt have to play in the field everyday. Also, with the Rangers paying much of ARods contract the braves would only be responsible for about 15, 16, and 17 million the next three years of ARods contract. Thats more than manageable with AJones walking and if Chipper was traded. The braves could even through in Diaz if thats what it would take to get it done. Then the Braves can turn their attention to pitching. How bout Renteria, Prado, Jojo Reyes, and Scott Thormon for Dan Haren. Then the braves would be set. Imagine this team

Blanco/Lillibridge CF Escobar SS ARod 3B Texeira 1b Mccann C Francouer RF KJ 2B BJones Lf

Smoltz Hudson Haren James Hampton

Soriano, Moylan, Mahay, Ring, Gonzalez, Ascano

Bench, Corky Miller, Blanco, BPena, WAybar, and Sign MLoretaa to a one year contract.

how bout this team folks, and I think it would be cost effective as well

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Mark We’ll go away when the Braves trolls on the Mets boards go away. I know you guys like to pretend that only Mets fans do this, but believe me, there are some VERY obnoxious Braves fans out there. And Overlord, I’ll come back and blog with you about the Mets anytime—but I’ll keep my words nice and small for you so you can keep up. And by the way, I hope you remember a few weeks ago when you were making all those posts about how good the Mets are. They’re ALL there in the archives….

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

No, but if you eat a stick, I’ll know you’re an Atlanta fan.

Now, there is a devastating come-back if I ever heard one. Everybody copy that down…in case you are ever back in k-1.

Speaking of which: Mutsfan if by the very slight chance that you are a college graduate, they owe you a refund.

By jay

September 11, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

KENTAVO

That was great.

Bagels and fold-over pizza.

You create art with words.

By David O'Brien

September 11, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN: Chipper says no change in his status, still day-to-day, not well enough to play. Actually, he sent that word out through a team official. Chipper stayed in the lounge watching the movie “Invincible.” Seriously….

Andruw is weak from a flu symptom we wouldn’t like to say here, the “d” word, but he’s going to see how he feels hitting in the cage to see whether he can play.

CLINT SAMMONS, the former UGA catcher, is here, Braves purchased his contract from Double-A Mississippi and brought him up in case they need him to fill in for Corky Miller, who left team to be with his wife for birth of their child.

So we have two Parkview High grads on the team now (Francoeur was a year behind him there).

By Lew

September 11, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Jay-Let me get this straight. What you’re saying is that in The Mets’ entire 45 year history, there is an eight year period where some in NewYork though you were the top team in New York. Is that right? Have I understood what you’re saying? Dude, you don’t know how special that makes us all think you are. Wow. 8 whole years out of 45 in your hometown? You must be proud. So very, very, proud.

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

METS FAN - Get off this blog and go f&^k yourself! I’ll find you’re sorry a and knock your g-d damn head off!*

Oh, no. A guy on the internet threatened me. This sounds serious. When should I expect you? Did you leave the house yet? Or, are you just drunk in your underwear right now, raving mindlessly? Let me know, okay, Kunta?

By Prosperous is the Calculus

September 11, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

Seasons be predetermined. Calculators tell me so. Look at what ll34 looks like upside down on a calculator. Calculators said in spring training that’s where the Braves would be. Where they be? Yes, Prosperous is the Calculus.

By Chop Chop

September 11, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

If the Braves are meeting their preseason expectations, does that mean that the Braves’ Pythagenport W-L record of 77-66 is wishful thinking? Are the Braves supposed to be underperforming that projected record, thereby “meeting” expectations? What does that mean about the front office? How many more questions need to be asked? 823,023,900,283,082,380,943?

Does it really matter?

By Lew

September 11, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

Jay-You don’t know just how much I truly wish that two Division Titles (when you actually get to two) will wipe away your memories of breathing Braves dust for a decade and a half. Let me know just how that goes, will you? Hey, just 12 more and you will have your own dynasty. Then they will truly respect you.

By Chop Chop

September 11, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

And hey, welcome to the show, Clint!

Go Dawgs!

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

JAY

With all the respect:

1.How exactly did the mets took the yankees completely out of the map and when did this happen?

1. Do you blog on other teams blogs besides braves? if the answer is yes (i suppose it is) could you name the teams please?

2. We dont like the yankees either, maybe you havent notice it because they dont come here and discuss anything.

By jay

September 11, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

BRAVESFAN

Besides the fact that you just embarassed every knowledgable Brave fan on this blog, under your calculations I will you this, how would the Braves MAKE the playoffs being 1-6 against the REDS.

Take your time with this one.

By whynot

September 11, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

The Mets are in trouble in the next few years. All they have left on the mound are two 26 year olds who’ve won only 14 games this year and rank in the top 10 in BA against and era, a rebuilt Pedro who can’t pitch w/o his explosive fastball, and 2 veterans who really don’t know how to pitch. Plus, with an owner only willing to spend 120 million a year, and some of MLB’s best Latin American scouting I don’t think they’ll ever be able to rebuild their pitching staff, like the Braves. They’ve got Smoltz for another decade, the always clutch Hudson, and Chuck 5 innings James, plus they can trade Edgar for a top notch pitcher.

Of course the starting 8 of the Braves is on the rise. They have the great Jeff 760 OPS Francouer, the always healthy BMac, and of course Willie and Matt who are clearly future All-Stars just coming into their own. And ot course the best young player of the bunch KJ, gets jerked around by Bobby like he sports a Francoeur-esque OPS. Met fans everywhere thank you Bobby. What do the Mets have? Oh yeah, David this is what a real middle of the order OPS looks like Wright, Jose Reyes, and Carlos Beltran. Along with 3 of the best outfield prospects in the game. Unfortunately our 1st baseman is a little old and his contract runs out after 2008. I wonder where we can find a power hitting free agent first baseman looking for a monster deal after the 2008 season. Hmmm, let me see. Any other holes, and Fred will spend like Ted did to fill them. This season will as close as the Braves get until 2010…if you’re lucky.

By michael of b'ham

September 11, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Now that the Braves are all but dead in this year’s race, I’d like to throw a “congrats” to the Mets fans who get to look forward to the post-season. Hopefully my Braves will give your team a better run at it next year. I really want to hate the Mets but Wright and Reyes make that hard to do. Not to mention I still like Glavine. Not sure I can root for the Mets in the post-season…but not as sure I can root against them as I have in the past. Whatever, your team was/is just plain better this year. I,like most Braves fans,will watch the Braves lose and then go over the “if only on that one pitch,play,catch,etc”. But as I think back on the 80’s, every year was full of games like that. It’s just that noone expected the Braves to be good. After such a long run of success, Braves fans(and the players it seems) just wait for the big turnaround moment for no other reason than “it’s the Braves”. It didn’t happen last year or this year. It’s time to stop thinking that way. Oh well,maybe next year…

By jay

September 11, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

LEW

We all have somthing to cheer. My 8 out of 45.

And your 14 out of 131.

Cheers!

By tony almeida

September 11, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

mike, ur a genius, ARod for chipper would definitley work. I dont know if the A’s would go for that 4 for 1 trade for Dan Haren though. Although if you think about it they do need a quality everyday ss and 2b and renteria and prado would fill that

By MetsFan

September 11, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Paladin Thanks for the kind words—it’s SO hard to keep up with the brilliance of how you keep changing “Mets” to “Muts.” How did you DO that? I mean, one second it says “Mets,” and then it sounds like a dog! Talk about an obvious intellect at work here! And on the off-chance you went to college…ah, forget it. There’s no chance.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

MetsFan maaaaaybe… just maybe, the mets are good. What im sure about is that YOU SUCK !!!!!. Oh and you can talk all your crap, no need to keep it small, i have read the best seller called “dealing with child with IQ 70 or lower”, i bought it as soon as i met you.

By jay

September 11, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

LEW

I don’t want any Brave fans respect.

I don’t care to have 14 or 2 division titles because they don’t mean crap. The Braves are NOT a DYNASTY!!! Show me where any writer or sports network, has called a DIVISION winner a DYNASTY.

What kind of Dynasty is that?

In Fenway and Yankee stadium, they don’t even hang Division Championship banners.

Only the Braves and Mets.

PATHETIC!!!!

By Braves Fan 79

September 11, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

Offseason moves that make the Braves a serious contender next year: 1. Get a 3rd starter, id perfer Glavine. 2. Stop relying on veteran crap (wilson, woodcrap, orr) and put the rooks on the roster like we should of done THIS YEAR!! Prado/Escobar anyday over woodcrap and orr.
Man this is stuff we should of done before THIS season….but JS u really messed up man, u gave Bobby CRAP to work with….and u know Bobbys gonna run that crap out there TIME AND TIME AGAIN until the wheels fall off the season. And thats exactly what happened this year!
How many times did we send woodcrap up to hit in crucial situations!?? Theres no excuse for having 3 or 4 players on a MLB roster that have .215 and lower averages….unless weve suddenly become the Royals or something!??

By Lew

September 11, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

Jay-No, 14 out of 16. I’m no where near 131 years old. I’ve been a Braves’ fan for 39 years. In that time (just slightly longer than the Mets have existed), I seem to remember 16 Division Titles in those 39 years and a number of National League Titles in addition to our paltry one WS victory. How many was that in the Mets 45 years? 5 or 6? Was it even that many? No, I didn’t think so. Please tell me again just how good the Mets are.

BTW-Just what are you trying to prove here on a Braves’ Blog? You trying to convince us of something? Or are you maybe seeking our approval, seeing that we actually know what a quality team looks like? I’ve always wondered about that. Maybe you would do better to convince other New Yorkers how good you are. What’s that? The Yankee fans aren’t buying into your line of horse crap? I’m so sorry they don’t take y’all seriously, either. Must really burn to be considered second best in your own hometown (at least for 37 of those 45 years). Burns real bad, doesn’t it? Preparation H will help that burning-so I’m told by other Mets’ fans. Maybe you should try it. Might just improve your outlook.

By whynot

September 11, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Braves Fan 79: Sorry, you will never get Glavine back. IF, he comes back next year it’s the Mets. You had your chance this off-season didn’t grab it. He loves playing with the Mets core of players, and it’s hard to believe he’d come back to an unstable Atlanta team.

Secondly, veterans aren’t the problem. You need QUALITY veterans on the bench. Marlon Anderson, Conine, Easley, etc. Glad you’re enjoying Woody though.

By jay

September 11, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

Overlord

In the 80’s the Yankees didn’t win. Steinbrenner was banned from baseball and traded away most of their prospects (jay buhner, Deion Sanders, etc)

The Mets were winning.

Like I said before the only reason I come to read this blog is because Brave fans come to our blog.

They were cool guys and invited the Met fans to check out Dave O’Brien and his posts.

Usually, I check out the teams the mets are playing to get a feel of their squad. This is the only blog I have seen that is so overtly nasty toward Met fans.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

Mutsfan Well….uh…you’re one too! Now, we are at your intellectual and cultural level. Take your time with your comeback. You have set yourself such a high bar. And how did you become a Muts fan? Did you lose a bet?

By Lew

September 11, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Jay-Maybe that’s because the Red Sox have less than the Mets to hang and the Yankees don’t have enough space. If that says something bad about the Braves hanging their 16, what does it say about the Mets hanging their 4? Typical Mets fan-no sense of logic-or for that matter, not much sense at all. I ask you again-why are you here? What do you hope to accomplish?

By Mark

September 11, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

Michael of B’ham- How can you like Reyes and call yourself a braves fan? All that dancing around and showing up the other team. He need a good fastball in between the shoulderblades.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

Funny, if division titles dont mean sh…. then why are the muts so desperate to win it and why is Mets Fan so proud mets are about to do that??? Are you reading this mets fan, your division title this year means nothing, so you have played 5.5 months for nothing!!!!!!! Go blow your head off pal.

If they dont mean anything, how come there is not a single muts fan that ignores how many straight DT braves won?

By brian

September 11, 2007 6:25 PM | Link to this

DOB - the difference between the Braves and Mets Olivier Perez? Not so fast my friend!

The difference between the Braves and Mets is Tom Glavine - the Braves could have had him but Time Warner made us pass on him. He wanted to come here but instead went to New York. Take him away from the Mets and place him as our 3rd starter and where would both teams be now?

Just read Tom Glavine wants to come back for another year.

Let me say (as I am sure everyone is surprised to read) TOM GLAVINE NEEDS TO BE A BRAVE NEXT YEAR. He is still a very good pitcher and even at about $10 million for a one year committment is probably a better deal than anyone else on the market. He would solidify our rotation and give our young pitchers such as Reyes, Dan Smith, etc another year to mature. It also would allow Chuck James to be our 4th or 5th pitcher depending on if we trade Edgar for pitching this offseason.

Tom Glavine a Brave is natural. Seeing him in a Mets uniform still looks out of place. Tom Glavine helped build the Braves and he should help us return to the post-season next year. Finishing his career with the Braves and leading us back to the playoffs is a proper way to end a HALL OF FAME career! You cannot put a price on his leadership in the clubhouse, leadership that has been lacking since he left the Braves.

PLEASE JS, GET TOM GLAVINE

PLEASE GLAVINE COME BACK TO THE BRAVES

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

Mets Fans I ask ya’ll this…If 14 straight division titles isn’t building a dynasty, what is?
Is it the 2 in a row that the Mets are soon to have?
Seriously, this should be interesting…

By jay

September 11, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

LEW

Thanks for the advice but I’m not burning and not in need of your approval.

However, if the Mets lose in playoffs perhaps I will ask you for some advice. Being that Braves fans are Baseballs version of blue balls.

You know, all hyped up thinking your finally gonna get some of that Championship booty only to leave unsatisfied.

I’ll be sure to ask you LEW about that given your 38 year experience on the matter.

By JC FROM UT

September 11, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

DOB: What would it take to get David DeJesus from KC? Would/could Joey Devine be enough? Also do you think Oakland would be interested in Kelly Johnson. He is a Billy Beane type player and along with a pitching prospect maybe JS could get Joe Blanton. This way Edgar stays and Yunel plays second fulltime.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

Well JAY, now that you are reading Mets fan maybe you can get an idea why some of us react this way.

On the other matter, yanks didnt win it in the 80s, so what? the mets won it once, is that putting the yankees under water? I see what are you trying to say, but i dont agree with it.

2 playoff appearances, 1 WS title in the 80s? Then, could you tell me how could we describe what we did to the mets from 1991 to 2005?

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

When you Mets fans come here, why don’t you just pull a Beltran and just browse?

By jay

September 11, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

OVERLORD< LEW

What is it that you get for winning a division?

Since LEW doesn’t get it here your go.

5 wild card teams have made it to the World Series in the last 5 consecutive years. while the DIVISION WINNERS sat at home.

3 of the 5 Wild Card Winners WON THE WORLD SERIES!!!!

THAT IS WHY I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT A DAMN DIVISION TITLES!!!!!!

DOES IT MAKE SENSE NOW? LEW? OVERLORD?

QUESTIONS?

By David O'Brien

September 11, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

Brian, read the post. I didn’t mean literally the difference between the teams was Perez. I meant — and it was clear to others — that the difference is the Mets have enough pitching depth to actually be able to consider leaving a current 14-game winner out of their four-man playoff rotation.

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

This is a big game for the Mets tonight in a way… They need a healthy El Duque for the playoffs if for nothing else than to add to their bullpen to compliment Heilman and Feliciano, cuz beyond that they really have nobody out there - Sorry Mets fans, not counting Jorge Sosa…

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

Hey, at least Harris isn’t leading-off.

By PostseasonBlues

September 11, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

Again, who cares if the Braves make the postseason? They will simply fall short of the World Series as usual, so what is the point. Bobby Cox can go chug another traveler bottle of bourbon and chirp at the umpires until his heart is content. Get’em going “Bourbon” Bobby! Yeah thiiiiiiiiiiiiiickones Bobby!

By The Grinch

September 11, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Well, I just ducked in for a minute to see what’s up and it looks like all of blogland is on the proverbial rag. My, my. New Mets fans and grouchy regulars. Well, as long as I win my bet with MetroMan I’ll be all right. Shouldn’t be a problem winning the next two, right? Who needs Chipper (that’s right, $#%-hole, if I lose you’ll think “Invincable”)? Man, this along with being a Dawg/Falcon fan is cause for a drink. I think I’ll have one or 12 if I can ever get the hell away from here. Enjoy, Y’all, and don’t get too riled up at the Mets fans. It’s human nature to take delight in the misery of others. Don’t want them to think you care too much. :-)

By jay

September 11, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

OVERLORD

From 1991-2005 the Braves simply beat a team they were supposed to beat. Period.

There was no rivalry. The Mets weren’t good enough to make it a rivalry.

If you believe that beating a last place team with little talent amounts to something then by all means, have at it.

But to me, the Braves were far and away the best team and the Mets were not even in their league.

Those are the facts.

And trust me, Yankee fans still see Matt Nokes in their rear view mirror. They were terrible in the 80’s

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

Interesting to see how mets fans prepare the scenario as they already know this is not a championship team.

By Lew

September 11, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Jay-I ask you again-If you don’t seek our approval, just what are you doing here? Other than making a complete @$$ of yourself, that is. You’re certainly not going to convince us the Mets are as great as you’d like to think. The only other reason I can think of is that with our approval, it might just lessen the insecurity Mets’ fans feel from being second best. Nothing else makes sense. You can seek all the acknowledgment you desire, but you’re unlikely to find it here.

By Paul A

September 11, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

Another Mets fan here…sorry, I know many of you prefer to hear only your own kind. And some of you actually threaten to kick asses, which says quite a bit more about the blogger who posted it than it does about those he/she was attacking.

Anyway, I have no sympathy for Braves fans. You have enjoyed more than your share of wins and division titles. You’ve been spolied by all that success. This year your team has a loaded offense but a shaky bullpen and an obviously thin staff of SP’s. Schuerholz will have another opportunity this off-season to show his genius in the trade market. If he can get a good starter for Renteria that would help you guys. You also need some bullpen help and a hig OBP guy hitting first or second.

Last but not least your team needs a new attitude. Some of that Bobby Cox whining and moaning has imprinted itself on your players…Chipper b*** about the umps, Chipper b*** about the difficult inter-league schedule, Hudson having the audacity to say Oliver Perez shouldn’t be trying to pick off a fellow Pitcher. Cox is a great manager but to me he looks like a man whose time has come and gone. The outrageous number of ejections he has accumulated are pretty embarassing. Your team would be moving in the right direction if he called it quits after this year. The man is over wrought and looks like hell…espcially when he’s griping about how unfairly his team is treated by the umps.

I have no idea how the Mets will do from this point on. They could still blow the division to the Phillies. And if they do win the division, they could easily be beaten at any stage of the post-season.

But of this I am sure…this year they are better than the Braves and the standings tell the story in full. So, folks, this is the year for you to suck it up and feel what most other teams in baseball feel this time of the year when they are out of it. It hurts…I know it because I’ve been through far more times than you guys. So suffer in silence and don’t expect any comfort. You’ve had way too many seasons of success to have earned sympathy.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

No questions…….. its so clear to me, let me help you convice the other 78 people that come to this blog.

People of this blog………you are all ignorants, winning the division is just plain stupid, it doesnt means anything, so lets call JS and ask him to start focusing for WC from here on, My new friend JAY just made me open my eyes and he is right, division titles dont mean sh…… so lets burn all our flag right now.

OK Jay, lets see if they agree with the 2 of us now, im sure we are making tons of new friends with this words i have just said.

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

I can’t wait to see the Mets choke in the playoffs, its gonna be great… Who you guys gonna lose to this year? San Diego? Arizona? Hey maybe St. Louis can sneak in again and beat you… hahahahahahaha, choke on a big fat one metsies!

By Shaun

September 11, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop,

Good point. The Braves may have exceeded their pre-season expectations, as they have lost a lot of close games, again this season as they did last season. There probably is something to the idea that they aren’t getting the breaks.

Most people on the blog are assuming that because they are losing close games, they aren’t playing fundamental baseball or something. But chance plays a bigger role in baseball than people realize.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Overlord Loved the 6:39 post! That’s a very clever classic. - Good stuff.

By jay

September 11, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Did the playoffs start already? The Champion of the 2007 baseball season has yet to be determined.

By Kenneth Simpson

September 11, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

The Braves are done for 2007. Chipper needs to go on medicare, Let Andrew go wherever Boras can find him about 20 million, quit giving the farm away to rent a player for one year, quit trading a quality player for some bad arm pitcher like they did LaRoche, let Bobby Cox retire and get rid of JS too, try to sign Tex for 5 years or so and let Escobar play shortstop every day and try to trade Edgar for something and lastly spend some more money and try to get a good free agent power hitter to play center when Andrew jumps ship as we all know he will and teach the braves players how to bunt and teach them the strike zone which is not in the other batters box.This should do it!

By jay

September 11, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

LEW

When did I say the Mets are great? When did I tout them or say anything good about them? What are you reading?

Overlord

A division title is just a playoff berth like the wild card and should be viewed as such.

It acknowleged the best in the division but the NL East isn’t the AL West.

Whatever live it up

Braves 14 CHAMPIONSHIPS.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone

Patience is your best friend.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

Jay is your first name Blue?

By Ed Glennon

September 11, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

There will be no stud pitchers on the market next year. Besides look what John S has given us lately: Baez Gonzalas, Dotel, Redman - all hurt and Wickman - hurt feelings. We better find some pitching in the organization.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

Grinch: You, Scribes, and I are possibly the only METS/braves fans that can communicate without berating each other. I take it you already know that the METS will win this season series so we can go back to the sports bar and you can pick up the tab.

METS FANS: Glad to see you guys stumbled onto this board. Now you can see how spoiled fans handle mediocrity. Us METS fans know where they are but cant feel sorry because of the nastiness spewed in the past. Be humble on the way up becasue you never know who you are gonna pass on the way down.
So the Lews, Overloads, Pauldins, and other blog gatekeepers keep in mind you made your bed, now lie in it. Besides if things get any worse, next season the first 9 fans can grab a glove and a cup and play until you find a winning combination!!!

Stop trying to hurt REYES dirty bravos.

LETS GO METS!!!

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this

will joe simpson stop this crap about pitchers pitching good but finding tough luck. please stop that line of b.s. every night it is a new excuse with that guy. oh, hudson pitched so great last night. no, he pitched good last night. merely good but not good enough. he lost. blame it on the offense but, bottomline, hudson was not better than perez last night.

i’m tired of hearing the excuses. this team is not great at very much but the excuse making, they are the greatest at.

when are we finally gonna hear people step up and show some personal accountability? Chuck James and Tyler Yates have been honest about some of their shortcomings. Don’t really hear alot of that from the rest of them. WHy doesn’t Cox just admit he screwed the leadoff thing up royally since June 25th, that he screwed up the cleanup thing for too long, that he screwed up royally by letting SOriano blow five games for 3 weeks in July and August when the man was exhausted, that he burnt his quality relievers the hell out by June, July because of some bizarre usage in unnecessary situations in April and May? When will Cox admit that he must have really screwed up if Wickman was his closer one day, cut the next, and not picked up until 2 weeks later?

When is Teflon John gonna admit that he perhaps screwed up the Hampton trade? The Dotel trade? Not having a fifth starter? Not having a first baseman for most of the season because he traded his first baseman for a guy with a damaged arm?

When will the owners step up and say sorry Braves fans, prior ownership let you down. We promise you we won’t make the same mistakes AOL/TW did.

Personal accountability and responsibility would be appreciated out of the owners, management, the manger, the coaches and the players.

Enough with the aw shucks, tough luck crap already. It’s beyond tiresome.

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

Now, here’s a thought and I hate how it just gets instantly dismissed by DOB and anyone who has anything to do with the Braves. How about losing LEO MAZZONE as part of the reason why we haven’t done diddly poo over the last 2 seasons? And I don’t want to hear “well look at what he did with Baltimore, they still stink.” Granted, they do, but what did washed up has been Steve Trachsel do in Baltimore this year? Did pretty darn good didn’t he? And THAT is what makes Mazzone special; taking junk and turning it into treasure (Burket, Jared Wright, Russ Ortiz, and even Jorge Sosa). When you’ve got a limited payroll, its all about value and right now we have NOBODY (with the possible exception of Chuck James) in the rotation who is providing any value… I don’t know, maybe I’m completely wrong, but it just seems like too big a coincidence that as soon as Mazzone leaves we have back to back .500 seasons…

By tootie bird

September 11, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

MetroMan Did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe?

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

frenchy just made the stupidest most immature feeble swing at ball 4. got the walk anyway but hasn’t anyone ever told him that on 3-1, you only swing at YOUR pitch and not just at anything that may be called a strike. just stupid. let’s watch andruw blow this bases loaded situation.

bases loaded, none out. not an ideal braves scoring opportunity this season.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

wow!!!!!!!!! The faaaaaaaaaar superior team just left runners on 1st and 2nd and 0 outs against a AAA pitcher and didnt score.

Now the best team in the league is in trouble with bases loaded and 0 outs.

Something is wrong

By Sam

September 11, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Hey David, Do you feel Andruw Jones owes alot to the Braves for his LOUSY season. Andruw should give them a company discount and resign with the Braves for one or two years. The guy played terrible and if he was hitting his weight…maybe the Braves should have been closer to the Mets. He should tell Scott Boras to take a hike.

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Here we go again… Bases loaded nobody out; Who wants to bet me that we don’t score right here?

By It's over, it's over, it's oooooover

September 11, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

Andruw has to be the stupidest mf ever to put on a Braves uni.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

They probably tried to take it out of the wrong end.

By DonCoburleone

September 11, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

WE SCORED! WE SCORED!!!

By Bob, Journalist

September 11, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this

We’ll take it … Braves have one, Met’s don’t … it’s somewhat surprising that the game isn’t being televised nationally, given that it’s 9-11 and being played in NY.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this

BASES LOADED WALK!!!!!!! IS THIS AAA???

I thought el duque was the muts force.

By It's Official

September 11, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Snitker is on crack!

It’s rubbed off on all the coaching staff. McCann could not have scored on that one if the throw had been 10 feet wide! LoDuca could have caught it, walked back to the plate and tagged McCann.

And Andruw…. I can’t wait until he is someone else’s headache.

By Photographer

September 11, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this

Andruw has to be the stupidest mf ever to put on a Braves uni.

No, I think Metroman put one on for a photo shoot, one time.

By brent a.

September 11, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

How many Braves does it take to screw in a light bulb?

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

only a step ahead of cox on that uni comment.

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

hey, sportssouth just stole the stat i put on here yesterday about 22-36, 6.37 era outside of hudson, james, and smoltz. they do read the blog. somehow, they wade their way through our childishness. pretty cool to post something one day and then see it on television the next day.

Does Shea Stadium have the worst music playing in the background or what?

By gotigers72

September 11, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

I’ll be so glad when Andruw’s gone. That was a horrible at bat, one of MANY this year. He swung at 2 pitches that were nowhere close to the plate. Empty headed approach. When is the last time he hit a homer? How many homers and RBIs has he had since August 1st?

What’s wrong with somebody actually getting a HIT with the bases loaded and nobody out, much less a walk, ground ball or sac fly? Why can’t somebody besides McCann hit a freakin’ grand slam?

Hey Brian, get that piano off your back. You were out by 20 feet.

By Ed Glennon

September 11, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

Don C is right. Mazone was a great guy and the proof is that he hurt Kyle Davies feelings. Kyle is much happier playing for a last place club.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

I watched Beltran make the catch - left the room to get a beer, rummaged around for some chips - came back to the den to see McCann getting tagged out.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

tootie bird: No that anal probe is what has Chumper on the bench!!!

Ok, braves scored and the METS didnt. Yea Overload, you are clearly the best becasue the standings say so.

By I Am Sam, Sam I Am

September 11, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this

Do you feel Andruw Jones owes alot to the Braves for his LOUSY season. Andruw should give them a company discount and resign with the Braves for one or two years. The guy played terrible and if he was hitting his weight…maybe the Braves should have been closer to the Mets. He should tell Scott Boras to take a hike.

Love the movie where Sean Penn played you, Sam. Michelle Pfeiffer is always easy on the eyes.

By Glavine's a TRADER!

September 11, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

I have said it often..CHIPPER IS A SISSY! He can’t get out of the bed without getting hurt…It must be so tough to swing the bat 4-5 times in a day with a six month vacation every year…Oh, don’t forget the millions you are paid to stay in top physical condition,

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

YUNI, YUNI, YUNI. 37 year old Yunel Escobar just hit a home run off 45 year old Orlando Hernandez.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

Anders Spare us a look into your routine. Next it will be a plop-by-plop of your bms.

By Glavine's a TRADER!

September 11, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

I’d NEVER buy a ticket to see Glavine wearing a Braves uniform- HE IS A GREEDY TRADER!!!!!!!!!

By dadgum

September 11, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

After reading comments today about Brandon Jones with Richmond, I am firmly convinced that Atlanta looks for him in the outfield on opening day ‘08. That means Andruw will have to sign for say 10 mil or sign elsewhere. Andruw is not worth more than 10 mil to any team let alone the Braves. Say goodnight Andruw. Goodnight Andruw. Let the trade winds blow. Ditto manager. Is GM far behind? If Cox’s team finishes worse than .500 he is gone.

Some say injuries are to blame. I say BS. Every team has them. Funny thing is that on this blog earlier in the year we were projecting total games played by certain players as being the benchmark for success. Chipper I believe was in the 130 game range. Where is he to date? NOt sure. Some of you know. Would be interesting to find out, huh?

Rock on……..remembering the victims of 9/11.

By Ed Glennon

September 11, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

My only worry now is that Andruw will be back after accepting arbitration. Even the two dummies Hicks and Angelos wouldn’t pay him big money. I am really sick of looking at him try to hit. He is washed up.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

MetroMan If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

Why cant this superior team cant score on our AAA pitcher? come on man, this is not right.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Paladin You broke my heart. Now your dead to me.

LEW Paladin’s not to be touched as long as the Braves playoff hopes are alive.

By fastasballs

September 11, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Only McCann can make Sid Bream look fast. Thank God McCann wasn’t rounding first that October night against the Pirates.

Has Andruw totally lost it? Can he not see? I can see millions NOT entering his bank account on every pathetic AB. Even Boras can’t spin the poorest walk year in the history of baseball. I hope he doesn’t get cheap enough that the Braves sign him.

By Drummerdad

September 11, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, That was a great assessment and post. I haven’t been able to keep my outlook on this team as positive as you have this year. The main factor that strikes me is that this team is not mentally tough enough to get another 10 or 20 wins.

1. I’ve pretty much soured on Andruw. Let him walk. We have no assurances that next year will be different. The number of times he has hit into double plays in scoring opportunities is shameful. That has to be terribly disheartening to teammates regardless of what is said publicly. It’s apparent that he’s not teachable. Time to start afresh.
2. Can’t see trading Edgar unless somebody is willing to trade a young Smoltz for him. Otherwise, NO WAY. Drop a train on ‘em Edgar my man.
3. Forget Mike Hampton. If he pans out, it’s gravy. But in reality, he has been an enormous and costly heartbreak and disappointment.
4. Obviously, we’re paying for Time Warner’s foray into sports team ownership and we’ll still be next year as well. They need to sign 2 proven starters in my big fat humble opinion. That’s just so they can stay competitive.
   Immediately, I’d like to see these guys just finish well.

done for now. dd

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

If Glavine can become a METS fan, then you guys can too. Heres the proof:

I’m having as much fun as I’ve had in a long time, and that’s a big factor for me,” Glavine told The Post on Sunday night. “It’s a fun team to come to the ballpark with every day. All the factors are there [to coming back].”

It’s likely Glavine will decline his option with the Mets and sign a new contract with the club for 2008 in the $12 million range. There’s always the chance the Braves, who were beaten 3-2 by the Mets last night at Shea, could go after Glavine again, but Atlanta has not come up with the money in the past, and that is not expected to change. Glavine’s offseason home is in Georgia, but Glavine has found a new home in New York, and next year would be his sixth season with the Mets.

The 300-game winner also appreciates the way the Mets have treated him with class and have tried to improve the team every season.

As Glavine said, “it’s a fun team” and the Mets are on the verge of winning their second straight NL East title. The Mets would be crazy to let Glavine escape back to Atlanta In many ways, Glavine is the glue of this staff. Martinez said Sunday he is trying to be the right-handed Glavine.

“It just seems so effortless,” Martinez said of the lefty’s winning style.

That 22nd effortless year is just around the corner.

Wow, if you guys win tonight, then this will be like your playoffs. Whoever wins tomorrow wins the season series and blogger bragging rights. But then the METS will go to the real playoffs while you guys rest for next season…So unfair!!!!

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this

Poor best team on the league, they cant score on our weak pitching.

I just wonder how superior they are, because the standings say so but they are looking bad against a far inferior team. Notice that one of their ACES is on the mound.

By Lee in S. GA

September 11, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

Glavine is no trader. Any one out there going to take less money for a job when you can have more doing the same job. The Braves have gotten cheap.

He said he was having fun this year. Funny how winning seems to make that feeling appear in a player.

By Paladin

September 11, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

I’m going to bed. If they can hold a 3 run lead, I don’t need to see it. If they can’t, I don’t want to see it. Nite all.

By A-ville Ranger

September 11, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

Just dropping in to comment on what could have been and what may be.What if Glavine had stayed ? Take him out of the Mets rotation and into ours and I like our chances both last season and this one…ok boo,hoo,yada,yada,yada.Now looking forward,I’ve seen post that proclaim the Braves can never develop the young talent as long as Chipper and Smoltz are on the team…..yea and Brittany Spears is a genius.We start by keeping those things of value not throwing them out.So Smoltz and Hudson then ???? We need to sign a very good,very healthy starter and a second with good potential…da and da, I know Brittany could tell you that much,well maybe not but my kid sister sure could.We need to find a replacement for Andruw in center (yes I’m sure)it could be Brandon Jones or one of the other young studs down on the farm or one of the legion of free agents.That’s it, a really short list isn’t it.Thing is most of the pieces are on the roster.I don’t know if the chemistry for lack of a better word will be there but I can’t see wrecking something for wrecking’s sake.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this

oooooopppppppsssssssssss our AAA pitcher just hit an RBI single to the far superior MLB muts ACE.

Can this guy get someone out?

Is this guy going to pitch a playoff game? I hope it is against the pirates.

By Bob, Journalist

September 11, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this

the Braves have it, Met’s do not … ‘nuff said!

Y’all take care!

By Anders

September 11, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

Apparently Bartman’s Uncle is at the game.

By TennesseePaul

September 11, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

El Duque really isn’t on tonight. He’s getting out of jams, somewhat unscathed, so far 2 bases loaded no out situations and only 2 runs plated. But this is borrowed time…

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this

i cant hear keith hernandez, ron darling and the other clowns making fun of the braves tonight on mlbtv.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

This espn article sums up the entire braves 2007 season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=klapisch_bob&id=3013814

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

Just as i thought, muts fans just went under their beds as they felt the storm, just like the clowns on the air.

6-0, shame shame, this really talks about superiority.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Tex with an A-Rod moment. Where was that the last 4 games against the Mets.

By A-ville Ranger

September 11, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

I know

By Bob, Journalist

September 11, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

If that wasn’t ‘nuff, maybe this will be … the Braves have it, Met’s do not!

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

Good showing 2night braves, I guess your guys havent given up on the wildcard. Oh, if you guys can just put a winning streak together you might just miss it by one instead of letting the Nats catch you.

Let Buddy go 9, no need for the pen tonight right bravos???

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

Does this means tomorrow is an off day for the offense?

At least philly is losing but peavy is on tonight against the dodgers and loaiza.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

Overlord 9 runs might not be enough - I know it - You know it.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

Oh, didnt TEXAS fans tell you that Tex will help in a blowout and fold in the cluth. I know I saw one post here to tell you that so dont be suprised he is getting his hits tonight. Hitting is contagious but he is never the one to start it.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

There’s a quick 3. Overlord just threw up in his mouth a little.

By The Grinch

September 11, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

Ok; came back to something I didn’t expect. Give the Mets fans credit; down 9-0 they were still fired up and the team responded. Hopefully that’s all the responding they’ll do.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

Thats not a quick 3.. thats the usual 3 for buddy.

Ill start worrying if its 5 before the 5th is over. And we might get some runs, the reliever parade is on.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

El Duques 2nd straight 3 IP outing.

Interesting fact for the muts.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 11, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

quick! read this before jimmy smith is banned! first, letwan and now jimmy smith. this time the culprit was cheese …

and chipper appears to be engrossed in the movie, “invincible.” stay tuned because vince papali played hurt. wrapped those broken ribs and played ball. will this movie touch the heart of chipper jones?

By Lew

September 11, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-I wouldn’t go counting Grinch’s money quite yet.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Where art thou goofball Steve Phillips. Looks like the METS and stankees will reach the playoffs again. Good riddance you wannabe GM. You made those initials stand for Gump Management!!! Stop predicting the demise of the METS, you have a better chance predicting how the braves will finish.

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

If Tex is so bad in the clutch…why do Mets fans want him so badly?

By Braveheart

September 11, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

YUNI, YUNI, YUNI. 37 year old Yunel Escobar just hit a home run off 45 year old Orlando Hernandez.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

Randolph is spoiling the fun by using this game as a bullpen tryout for Pelfrey.

I must admit - that mouthpiece thing Pelfrey uses is annoying in a weird way.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

MetroMan Phillips was on Mike and Mike this morning. That freaking loser covered every race in MLB but the NL east. I was waiting to hear what he would say about the Mets and he didn’t even mention them. Incredibly weak.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

MegaBravesfan What Met fan ever said they wanted Tex? What would we do with Delgado?

By The Grinch

September 11, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

The same amount of alcohol will likely be consumed either way; bragging rights are more important.

JJS, Chipper could have learned something from watching Willie stay in the game; that would have sidelined Hoss for 18 months.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

Will the 10-3 lead hold.

By brian

September 11, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

DOB - I did read your blog and thought you made a great point.

My point was simply that a Mets starter with similar numbers, if not better, WANTED to be a Brave and Time Warner Cable was too cheap to increase payroll to sign him. Glavine should have been a BRave and not a Met if TWC was not so cheap so if we are going to look at what could have been, Glavine would be a good example. Add Glavine to the Braves this year and subtract him from the Mets. Where would both teams be today?

Any chance Glavine is a Brave next year?????

By gotigers72

September 11, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

Did you see the stats on Carlyle in the 5 starts prior to this start? This guy is NOT a ML pitcher. Being as they are basically out of it, they should pitch JoJo in Carlyle’s spot for the remainder of the year. Yes, I know JoJo’s stats overall are worse, but my thinking is JoJo is 21 and has a future where he can improve, while Carlyle has no future. May as well get JoJo started on his future now.

By TennesseePaul

September 11, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Love that Aussie. I’d be verly interested in what he could do as a starter.

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

Anders Everything I have read is talking about dumping Delgado and snatching Tex from the Braves…or they are mad that Omar didn’t get Tex.

I personally think you could do much worse than Delgado, so I don’t know what they are complaining about.

By gotigers72

September 11, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

If Carlyle is in the rotation next year, the Braves will not make the playoffs again. Time to start looking around for some starters JS.

Is there not a Braves trainer or a personal trainer, doctor, etc. that can come up with some kind of stretching exercises for those FREAKIN’OBLIQUE muscles?

By ronp

September 11, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Look ahead to next year…James showed promise and he could become a good one…to heck with Hampton… trade him for new bat and glove…

Younel could become the next A-Rod..dump AJones and spend his salary on a pitcher…Kelley strikes out a lot but walks and hits for average…

Frenchy was most improved; I think he even walked once this year. don’t know how long Smoltzie can keep going…Hudson had a career year..Chipper is Chipper…Harris blew hot an cold..has speed but needs to learn how to steal bases…

Bullpen much improved; nobody misses Wickman but everybody missed Gonzales. Moylan was a pleasant surprise..kangeroos can pitch afterall….Tex was a great addition and his presence will soften the blow when Andrew walks….McCann is an All-Star….

All in all, there’s a whole lot to build on..everone knows they need another starter so JS has his work cut out for him…

Wasn’t a bad season and I enjoyed wathing them..

Wait ‘tll next year!

By Ed Glennon

September 11, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

Our active roster carries two extra catchers who never play and two extra first basemen who never play. We have the worst hitting outfielder in baseball with only Willie Harris to replace him. Can anyone tell me why we can’t call up another outfielder to replace the Rally Killer?

By Anders

September 11, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Megabrave I have no idea where you read that but I haven’t seen it once. The Mets were never even considering Tex. I think you have the Mets mixed uo with another team that might have wanted Tex.

BTW- The Yanks or Red Sox might snatch him from ya. Don’t put any stock in that home town crap. All players follow the money.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

gotigers72, once you get a scar in your body, it will keep hunting you until you die. Muscle tears become scars, a relatively weaker tissue, not much elasticity there, plus its easier to feel pain on an old scar than in normal tissue. But you are right, ignoring this facts is dangerous because if you dont do some stretching, this tissue is not as elastic and you could injure it again.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

The aflac question for tonights game.

Which braves starter does not have a hit tonight?

quick quick!!!!!!!!!!

AJ is the mannnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Anders I don’t know if you have heard of a guy names Kevin Youkilis or not, but he is having a pretty good year. I think the BoSox might consider resigning him. No…I was interested in trade talks around the deadline and so I read some Mets blogs. You might be surprised how many Mets fans wanted him.
Oh…and I wasn’t saying the Mets were considering him. Just that some of your fellow Mets fans were wanting this “unclutch hitter.”

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

I thought the supersupersuperior team (from mets fan) was supposed to beat the braves since they are lower in the standings.

Instead they are fighting for some pride, go to bed willie.

By TennesseePaul

September 11, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

Grinch, MetMan: So how does this bet go? With the win by the Braves today, they have assured at least a season tie should they lose tomorrow. Is that just a dutch drinking bing or what?

By KC

September 11, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Joe Simpson just (correctly) criticized Bobby Cox for the fact that McCann is still in a 13-5 game, when BC could use this opportunity to get him some rest.

That’s why I love Joe Simpson. He says what’s on his mind. And he’s absolutely right about this.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 11, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

I hope muts fans realize now how good their team is.

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

I like Joe Simpson, too. Most of the time.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

MegaBrave Youkilis is a 3rd baseman they moved to first because they had to take Mike Lowell in the Becket trade. Lowell will be gone by then, Youkilis back to 3rd - Tex to first possibly.

By True Braves Fan

September 11, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

DOB: If the Braves do not sign Andruw (and I don’t think they will) do you see the Braves offering him arbitration?

By LeTwan Anthony

September 11, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

Once, a very young LeTwan was reaching for a pie that Mama had baked for church and had placed high atop the tallest shelf in the kitchen. Young LeTwan was standing on a chair, stretched as tall as possible, when, suddenly, and without warning, LeTwan was seized with tweaking-oblique pain! Yes, pain in the oblique region.

LeTwan cried out for Mama and asked to be removed from the lineup (taking out the trash and drying the dishes). Mama looked at LeTwan and, only as a Mama can, said, “Shut up you Sissy, that oblique injury thing ain’t fooling your Mama.”

LeTwan never got a piece of that pie - but LeTwan learned one of life’s lessons. Never take yourself out of the lineup with a tweaked oblique. Even your Mama will call you a Sissy.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Overlord What Braves starter couldn’t get the win even when spotted a 9-0 lead?

Quick quick!!!

Carliability is the Mannnnnn!!!!!!!

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Heck Anders No, I think the Red Sox would be more interested in Scott Thorman, don’t you? Hey, maybe they will trade Josh Beckett for him…do you think they would go for that?

By Savannah Guy

September 11, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

No hits for Andruw tonight.

DOB gave the “d” hint: too pooped to pop.

By Metropolitan Man

September 11, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

LEW: You got another prediction correct. I’ll have to hold off congradulating myself with beers on GRINCH!

GRINCH: So it looks like the METS cant win the season series, only tie. So if its a tie then what do you want do? Keep the same bet for next year or up it. I have an idea that the loser (if upped) will have to wear the winner’s teams colors with a handmade sign from the winner in front of T. Field before a METS-braves game. Now thats just 1 idea. You can give me some of your ideas in order to embarrass the other. Oh, we should still get those drinks, baseball is still going.

Congrats bravos, you are still alive. Dont let the bottom feeders continue to make a fool out of you.

LETS GO METS.

Little guy Maine will finally get big man Smolzt.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

MegaBraves Beckett’s going no where. The guy’s a horse.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Best news of the night. Apparently TBS has picked up the syndication of “The Office” Finally no more Seinfeld!!!

By MegaBravesFan

September 11, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

Anders I changed my mind. I think that is a little bit unfair. They should throw in Coco Crisp, too.

By Braves are a dynasty

September 11, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Because John Scheurholz looks like Blake Carrington and Bobby Cox looks like Alexis Carrington Colby (when he puts on eye shadow).

By KC

September 11, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Win tomorrow, and then take at least 5 of 6 from the Nats and Marlins… and the Braves might not be out of it if the Padres don’t play well. Again though… they’ve got to win 6 or 7 of their next 7 games to have any shot.

By mr baseball

September 11, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox was so frightened of blowing an 8-run lead that he would not give McCann an inning or 2 off and used Soriano to close. Hope we don’t need to get more than 3 outs from him tomorrow night. Oscar hasn’t pitched in maybe a week. It might have been an intelligent idea to get him an inning of work ahead 13-5. The use of the word intelligent, however, rules out Cox taking that into account.

Always amazed by those who criticize Cox for not playing “small ball.” I’d like to have a penny for every time someone has made mention of the Braves playing for 3-run homers. Sorry to break it to you who think that way, but managers who play for big innings win a whole lot more games than those who play for one run at a time. Shaun can provide you with the sabremetric proof and it’s irrefutable.

This whole “playing for 3-run homer” nonsense is a badly misinterpreted take on an old Earl Weaver saying. Not playing small ball does not mean you wait for a 3-run homer. It means you don’t give up outs to gain one base, especially with a team that(a) hits for a high average; (b) has some power; and (c) doesn’t have a lot of speed. The Braves qualify on all counts.

Everybody on here who thinks Cox costs the team games by not bunting & stealing enough need to take a look at baseball history books. Check out the number of championship teams that relied on small ball to win vs. those who “waited for the 3-run homer.” You might be surprised.

You win baseball games with big innings. Not by having one of your best hitters bunt just because the outdated “Managing for Dummies” book tells you to do so.

The reason the Braves lost most of their close games is because they save all their hits with RISP for games they win by lopsided margins, and because their manager has an incredible knack for using the wrong reliever in the wrong situation.

Not because they don’t (or can’t) bunt. I realize, however, that trying to convince many of you of that fact is as pointless as trying to persuade a loyal Dubya supporter that the current President is the most incompetent individual to reside in the oval office in more than 75 years.

By The Grinch

September 11, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

Well, first let’s see if they tie it. :-) Yeah, we’ll think of something. The drinking should occur regardless; maybe in conjunction with football. You know if I’ll bet on the Falcons this year I’m either insane or a real fan.

By Anders

September 11, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

KC Don’t let Lew hear you thinking about other teams games besides the Braves. Apparently it doesn’t help and is therefore frowned upon. Who knew?

By KC

September 11, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

I’ll make only this prediction… Smoltz will win tomorrow.

I think Smoltzy is pi$$ed about losing that last game against the Mets. And I wouldn’t want to be Mets hitters tomorrow.

By UberUltraPenultimateSupraBrave

September 11, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

Braves are not done yet!

By Kentavo

September 11, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Okay Mets-holes, this is a Braves blog, that’s why we don’t want you here. How much simpler could it be? Go congratulate yourselves elsewhere, this is a forum to talk about the Braves and the Man in Black.

By KC

September 11, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

Anders: Huh?

By Anders

September 11, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

KC So losing to the Mets is more of a motivator for Smoltz than saving what was left of the Braves season last week?

By Savannah Guy

September 11, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

A little while later…

LeTwan’s neighbors, the Katzenjammer kids were kicking a can down the alley near LeTwan’s home when they detected the irresistable aroma of a freshly baked pie. They followed their noses to LeTwan’s home and the pie Mama had baked. The fresh baked treat that Mama had lovingly prepared was there, cooling in her kitchen. LeTwan was in his bedroom watching TV while Mama was busy doing chores, singing and drying the dishes that LeTwan left.

From the kitchen window they spied that pie. They looked at each other in silent, mischevious agreement, quietly climbed into the kitchen window, crept up the ladder, gently eased the pie from it’s perch and whispered, “away we go”. Out the window they were…with LeTwan’s pie. They even did Mama the favor of carrying out her trash as they stole away.

LeTwan may have learned two lessons that day. First, he was not invincible after all. Secondly, he learned that, if he takes himself out of the game, he misses out on the, uh…sweet rewards.

Tomorrow, when his buddy Johnny comes over, he will help his Mama with chores and she will bake another pie. Then he and little Johnny will go and beat up those Katzenjammer kids. As long as the hammock bones feel ok that is.

(With inspiration from and apologies to…)

By Anders

September 11, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

KC Sorry about that, thought you might have seen how Lew’s been busting me on saying Braves fans should be focused on the Wild Card weeks ago. Etc etc…. You had to be there

By Julia

September 11, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

WARM OYSTERS! Warning! Do-not-eat WARM OYSTERS.

A properly prepared SHRIMP SAMMICH, however, is delightful.

Down in New Orleans the women eat SHRIMP SAMMICHES from the Gladiola Grille because these SHRIMP SAMMICHES* are low-fat.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 11, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

“uh, hello, ted, you splendid splinter. my name is uh, chipper jones.”

“hello, kid. what’s wrong? why are you wrapped in all those bandages?”

“uh, i tweaked an oblique.”

“miss any games?”

“uh, yeah. i’ve missed a few.”

“aren’t you guys in a pennant race?”

“uh, we like to win the division sign.”

“go away, kid, you are bothering me.”

By Anders

September 11, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

Wow. Nothing but crickets here. Last one to leave turn out the lights please.

By Shamus Thacker

September 11, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

I don’t think either team “has it”.

The Mets just suck slightly less than the Braves.

The Mets suck like an F-5, so I don’t know where that leaves our poor ole Braves…

By Efrim

September 11, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

KC

Win tomorrow, and then take at least 5 of 6 from the Nats and Marlins… and the Braves might not be out of it if the Padres don’t play well. Again though… they’ve got to win 6 or 7 of their next 7 games to have any shot.

Dude. You have to stop getting so pumped over one win or one good performance. I worry for your health, I really do. Relax. If the Braves win tomorrow and then proceed to sweep the Nats and the Marlins, then go crazy. I’ll be right there with you. But this team has completed 3 sweeps all year long. Philly in the first series of the year, the Nationals after getting swept by the Tigers (making us 38-38) and the highest point any Braves fan has been this year, sweeping the Pirates to go 50-42. Do not hold your breath for sweeps by a Chipperless Atlanta team.

By silent majority

September 11, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

re: jjs

Oh - I get it! Chipper is not very bright. What a clever observation.

As you said: go away, kid, you are bothering us.

By David O'Brien

September 11, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

True Braves Fan, no way I see Braves offering arbitration to Andruw, who would probalby get about $15 mill even after this down season (that’s the way that system works).

By Dad

September 11, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

Dave, I have been trying to tell you Braves fans all season that the Braves could not compete with the Mets. The Braves are a team on the decline. When they let Maddux and Glavine go, I knew the Braves would eventually fade into oblivion. The Braves may not win another division championship or wild card in the next 15 years. I have invited the Braves fans to switch over and start pulling for the Mets. Just think about it Braves fans. You would be pulling for a team that is going to win 15 NL East Champioships in a row breaking the Braves record. I hope that you Braves fans enjoy the postseason as the Mets win the World Seies in 2007.

By gregory corso

September 11, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

They,

that unnamed they,

they’ve knocked me down but I got up.

I always get up —

and I swear when I went down quite often I took the fall;

nothing moves a mountain but itself.

They,

I’ve long ago named them

me.

By journalist jimmy smith

September 12, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

silent majority: come out and play with one of your recognizable names and jimmy smith will have jimmy smith’s way with you. what and idiot!

By GeorgetownKid

September 12, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien,

I thought you hit the nail on the head when you remarked on the Braves’ lack of “situational hitting.”

I find it remarkable how the Braves’ hitters performed much better in the clutch early in the season when everyone had overwhelming confidence in the bullpen. But as the season progressed Gonzalez got hurt, Wickman underperformed (as did Soriano for a long stretch), and the team lost confidence in James, the hitters became far less reliable in clutch situations.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

So , Mr.baseball , what happens when the Braves don’t get the three run HR and great pitching ? answer: 2006-2007.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this

O’Brien , I can see the Braves offering arbitration to Andruw IF in fact they actually knew he would get no more than 15 million. It would be risky but your forgetting about Andruw’s agent , Scott Boras. No way does Boras allow Andruw to go that rout. He will advise his client to turn the arbitration offer down and file for free agency. The risk is : either pay the money or lose draft picks. I think the Braves should offer arbitration , Andruw will turn it down and the Braves get the draft picks. Take the risk. Otherwise , the Braves get nothing.

By BravesDave

September 12, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this

Jeez, DOB, this blog entry was so darn negative. Haven’t you read the blog?? You are not supposed to cite the negative aspects of the Braves 2007 season. Everyone on the blog already knows all of it, no need to repeat it.

Please be more positive.

By mr baseball

September 12, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this

Coach: As I’ve said before, if you can’t hit with RISP in close games, there’s not much you can do to offset that. It also doesn’t help when you have a manager who consistently mishandles his bullpen and struggles to put his best lineup on the field each night. If I remember DOB’s stats correctly, the Braves are 3rd in the NL in runs scored and 7th in ERA. Those should translate into something better than a few games over .500.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

Just like Maddux turned it down, huh?

Boras would only consider accepting arbitration if he wasn’t able to get anywhere near the 7-year, $150 mill (or so) contract he wanted to get Andruw.

And since I don’t think there’s any way he’ll get even close to that now, he might, in fact, accept arbitration. And the salary could be even higher than $15 mill, since Andruw’s already at $13.5 and hit those 92 homers in 2005-06 (arbitration panels don’t just take into account one season, if the lawyer arguing the case does a good job representing his client).

I’ll ask around, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone tells me Andruw might get $17-18 mill in arbitration. Just don’t know. Know comparable cases have occurred, really.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 1:24 AM | Link to this

Mr.Baseball , exactly correct. Bobbyball consists of great pitching , great defense and the three run bomb. He can’t win without dominant pitching , Bobby isn’t that good of a manager. He has abused the bullpen , no question whatsoever. Another example are the Yankees and Joe Torre. They are first in offense , eighth in ERA. Torre has used THIRTEEN starters , T-H-I-R-T-E-E-N !!! for F* sake ! And yet , the Yankees are going to the playoffs. That is the difference between a great manager(Joe Torre) and a decent manager (Bobby Cox).

By uga-brave

September 12, 2007 1:37 AM | Link to this

anyone know our record when k.j hits leadoff as opposed to wille mays hayes?

not that that k.j. is the long term solution but the latter definetely is not.

another typical performance, pile on the runs when they dont mean a whole lot. at least that has been the one constant all year.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this

Maddux wasn’t a risk. He was worth every penny. He went 16-11 with a 3.96 ERA in 2003 , his last in Atlanta. Andruw is a risk , as I have already stated. Now your figures have mysteriously jumped from 15 million to 17-18 million. I don’t buy that. Andruw is having a down year offensively , I don’t see an arbitrator giving him much of a raise. Which is why Boras would put him on the free agent market where AJ would stand a better chance at a bigger contract. At any rate , this is all conjecture. I just don’t see Andruw in a Braves uniform in 2008.

By uga-brave

September 12, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this

i dont think bobby misused the bullpen. what was he supposed to do leave redman in there, leave davies in there, leave james in there. correct me if i am wrong but we dont have a complete game all year. sure there was a time when he overused yates and soriano, but what were the other viable options.

said it before and will say it again, this season was a uphill battle the day hampton got hurt. throw in the comier injury, the davies debacle and 5 and out chuck, and the recipe for diaster was all but in place.

kinda funny last year it was the bullpen this year the starters but always when your pitching is suspect all the other deficencies on your roster become magnified.

By uga-brave

September 12, 2007 2:00 AM | Link to this

arbitration is usually based on career averages and not just the last season. no way i think the braves offer andruw arbitration.

would not be suprised at all if the arbitrator awarded andruw 17 million based on his body of work. j.s. knows this and could not take the risk. the only way andruw comes back is if they offer him the same money for one year with a player option. would not suprise me at all if this happens considering his affection for bobby and the braves. still think it is probably a longshot though, and it is probably time for the braves to move on.

By uga-brave

September 12, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this

dob,

if vernon wells got the contract he got from the jays nothing would suprise me.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this

Hey uga-brave , explain this to me. The Yankees have used 13 starters , 26 pitchers total. They have 26 saves and a team ERA of 4.52 , and yet , Joe Torre has them poised to win the wild card. The Braves have used 9 starters , 27 pitchers total. They have 33 saves and a team ERA of 4.19 , and yet , they are going to miss the playoffs for the second year in a row. How is this possible , how Did Joe Torre and Bobby Cox not have anything to do with this result ?

By uga-brave

September 12, 2007 2:21 AM | Link to this

coach i would say the diffence is clemens, petite, hughes, weng, compared to davies, calyle, james, and reyes. oh, then there is that salary dicrepency. oh yeah a-rod aint having a bad year either.

By mr baseball

September 12, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this

ugabrave:

Let me re-phrase. Cox mis-uses the pitching staff in general. The bullpen has actually been pretty decent for the most part. But Cox too often leaves his starters in the game a batter or 2 too long, especially a guy like James, who loses it all of a sudden. He got Carlyle tonight before things really deteriorated. Not too nice for Carlyle, but it was the right move.

Typically, he won’t get his bullpen started until after the trouble has reached the critical point, leaving precious little margin for error (see Wickman’s handful of meltdowns).

Cox also has a tendency to run the same guys out there over and over, when another option is available. And he almost refuses to send guys back out after an easy and effective inning, falling into a one-inning-and-done rut.

I don’t have the numbers on front of me, but I would be willing to wager that the Braves have been an underperforming team year in and year out in 1-run games since 1991. I think we all know why, but some of use refuse to admit it. Like the playoffs, just bad luck, I guess.

Looking to tomorrow night: another day, another win or else game. When you’ve reached the stage that you have to beat the division leader and then win at least 5 of 6 against 2 admittedly lousy teams, I think you’re past the what-if stage and into self-delusion.

That’s it for tonight.

By Coach ( Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 12, 2007 2:36 AM | Link to this

Wrong answer. Smoltz , Hudson , James and Carlyle are 46-31 . Pettitte , Wang , Clemens and Hughes are 40-23 . The Yankees offense and huge salary go hand in hand. But when it comes to pitching , they Braves have fared better. When it comes to managing , Torre wins in a landslide.

By mr baseball

September 12, 2007 2:46 AM | Link to this

One more thing. Any of you still awake who think the Braves have pitching problems, consider:

Losing pitcher for the first place D’Backs tonight — our old pal Bob Wickman. They got nobody else to pitch in a tie game in the 8th inning?

Starting pitchers for tomorrow — Rockies are throwing some guy with a 19.06 ERA and, get this, A WINNING RECORD (2-1).

The Cards start Mike Maroth (why????), who I think some on here were advocating acquiring. He is 0-4 with an 11 ERA. I think a drug test is in order for the manager.

These are teams closer to the playoffs than the Braves. Other than the Mets, is there anybody in the NL with enough starting pitching to think about a World Series shot? Just wondering.

By Josh

September 12, 2007 3:18 AM | Link to this

Dave, are the Braves trying to extend Texiera? If so thats already a step in the right direction.

By Serbok

September 12, 2007 5:23 AM | Link to this

MorninAll Just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed the blog this year! DOB AWESOME JOB my friend! This was my first year monitoring the borders between midnight and DAYBREAK. (Paladin, Iwas kinda ruff on ya?)But my Friend, you dam sure know a vampire when one was there? LOL I might pop in during the Off season~ but kinda doubt it~ You guys have been really great! I have just thoroughly enjoyed the season and the blog is a big part of that enjoymenT! Just wanna extend my positve thoughts to fellow Bloggers whom are going thru ruff times health wise~ as Braveheart once said to me~ Dude, ya drop names, your bound to Fup and miss someone~ I take that advice to heart? Seems like there should be some sorta joke there? I Digrass? However, I cannot help but wish CL the best as she has been the “Steady hand?” Bravos are sittin pretty thanx to “THE” trade, As I’m sure Bill O’Really will remind us this sunday: “Today is the 1600th day since mission accomplished was declared in Iraq!” Gotta Love that Guy! Such a str8 shooter! ENJOY the OFF season! Enjoy the NFL!!! AND Most Importantly? **KEEP ON ROCKIN IN THE FREE WORLD!! NEXT YEAR IS OUR YEAR!

By Serbok

September 12, 2007 5:44 AM | Link to this

HOPE you guys got the DIGRASS Humor?

By Serbok

September 12, 2007 5:55 AM | Link to this

The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

By Coach ( Glavine article concerning 2008)

September 12, 2007 6:28 AM | Link to this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20731589/

By ssiscribe

September 12, 2007 7:32 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens. Tried to post a few minutes ago, but I screwed up and hit something, and I landed back on the AJC home page. So … if a partial post appears, my bad.

Been away with kids birthday party stuff and busy times at work. Good win last night. Ugly loss the night before. Story of the season: can’t put a streak together.

Last gasp hope would be for this team to win tonight, sweep in D.C. and come home and go 5-2 on homestand. That would give the Braves the 10-2 streak they need to push toward the top, and if the Padres go 6-6 during that stretch, the Braves would be one game back with one week to go.

Will it happen? I certainly would not bet on it. Do I hope it happens? Certainly. But I’m not holding my breath, and I’m not saying it will happen. Just saying if … which I believe a lot of us will be saying once Oct. 1 rolls around.

Here’s hoping Smoltz can follow up on his masterpiece Friday with another good one tonight, and then it’s on to Washington to try and sweep the Nationals.

Back to it. Later, gang. For those of you dropping outta here for the remainder of the run, it’s been fun. For the regulars, I’ll be in and out the next two weeks. But I’ll be here some, and I’ll be here to help stoke the hot stove throughout the offseason.

Enjoy the day you’ve been given. The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

I hope that the blog will be more for “regulars” today, and less a home for wayward-muts. Either way, I want to add this.

I am not going to go into chapter and verse about what the Braves need for next season. It has been covered ad nauseum, and I’m sure that JS knows what we need, in the way of players. Whether he can fill those needs is another matter. But, where does he find a player with leader behind his name. I think that has been missing most from this team.

Don’t start about BC! That is another subject. And don’t remind me of Smoltz. He has done his best to lead by example but a player who is on the field every 3 or 4 days can not be the leader. Who does that leave on the team as it is constituted? Chipper. And he has failed as a leader.

Someone did a piece last night about Chipper meeting up with Ted Williams, and getting his scorn. That is because Williams was from the “old School” of baseball, but he had also seen wounded Marines begging to get back in the line because “my buddies need me”. The only line Chipper has gotten into, and led, is the one for the whirlpool.

Chipper is a great ballplayer and probably a HOF. But, he is not a leader. That’s what the Braves need. A leader.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

I don’t have the numbers on front of me, but I would be willing to wager that the Braves have been an underperforming team year in and year out in 1-run games since 1991. I think we all know why, but some of use refuse to admit it. Like the playoffs, just bad luck, I guess.

The Braves are 409-370 in one-run games since 1991. That’s a .525 winning percentage which ranks tied for third in baseball (San Diego is 414-375).

By Anders

September 12, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

My Two CentsI find it ironic that you guys would use Ted Williams as the “Scolder” of Chipper Jones. It goes without saying that William’s is an all time great and from what I hear a tough old bird, but the guy’s team only made the playoffs once. He has a grand total of 7 playoff games with 25 AB’s and 5 hits. I realize one guy doesn’t determine a baseball teams outcome but he did play 19 full years. If Williams did play hurt it didn’t appear to make a difference for the team. I’m just saying Chipper has delivered the goods to the Braves for many years and he may have his faults but I think old Ted would love to have him in his foxhole anyday.

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

I don’t have the numbers on front of me

Shaun Why does it not surprise me that you did have the numbers in front of you? :>)

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Now Anders is not only an expert on the Braves, he knows how Marines think too! What were you Mut, a bell-ringer for the Salvation Army? As the “Cashier” tried to make clear to you yesterday, your opinions ain’t worth two cents. 1

By brent a.

September 12, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

My gut says that Andruw would accept arbitration, take the $15 mil +, and then fix his swing in the off-season.

Then, he could be set up for that huge deal at the end of next year.

I still say this: Go back to last year’s waiver trade deadline.
When Andruw was claimed on waivers, he got upset.
The Braves were in Cincy that week-end, and Andruw played like a dog. He hasn’t been the same since.

You can verify the stats, the date, everything.

Andruw doesn’t like being uncomfortable.

By Will

September 12, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

What is the Braves record in 1 run games in the playoffs? It seemed like every game they lost in the playoffs, especially at the beginning of the 90’s, was by 1 run

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

I have to be gone on business for at least the rest of the morning. Will somebody, Lew? Braveheart ?Grinch? Anybody? stomp on Anders every time he opens his yap! Please!

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

Yes, the Braves need Chipper to get the rest of ‘em to paint their faces blue, to moon the Mets, and to tell his teammates: Sons of Atlanta, I am Chipper Jones, Chipper Jones is 7 feet tall, kills pitchers by the hundreds, and if he were here he’d consume the Mets with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse. I AM Chipper Jones! And I see a whole army of my teammates here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? Aye, fight and you may die. Run and you’ll live — at least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our division titles, but they’ll never take… our freedom from the pressure of winning division titles every year!

Amazing, Anders, of all fellas, has more respect for our Chipper than most Braves fans do. Guess that’s because Chipper owns his team.

Invincible, huh? Now that is ironic! The once invincible team and player anything but these days. The Iron-ic Hoss Rides Again!

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

Paladin,

Yeah, Ted Williams was a real leader:

“All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth.”

Also, he was a Bonds-type figure when it came to dealing with the press.

Okay, maybe Terry Pendleton was a leader, but what about every year from 1995-2005? Where were the leaders on those teams? Best I can tell, those teams had similar personalities than this year or last year’s team. Also, Chipper was probably the best player or close to it on all those teams and they won a lot, even a World Series in 1995.

Maybe you know something no one else knows about the personalities of Braves players from 1995-2005. To say what they need is a leader seems to be pure speculation.

What they needed this season is a normal Andruw and a deeper pitching staff. Unless a “leader” could have provided those things, I think the Braves would be basically in the same position.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

I have to disagree on chipper not being a leader. Man if he is not a leader, then what a leader is? Maybe he is not the best leader around, but yo mention 10 better leaders than him in the majors….

SD and all other WC hunters are playing really bad baseball, 5-5 for almost everyone, it would be nice to see that 8-2 or 13-3 run. Winning today is still big….. Im pretty sure LA is gonna beat SD tonight. The only need is to pick up 2 games this week, i think that would be just enough.

By dadgum

September 12, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

Andruw JOnes being given arbitration by the Braves? No way on this green earth will that ever happen. Too risky for Atlanta and whatever he gets he will be overpaid. No upside for the BRaves. Again as I have posted prior, The Braves would perhaps like to keep Andruw but only at something like a 3 year contract at 10 mil per. Perhaps 5 years with it back weighted with incentives.

See the Braves have far better options long term with farm talent and free agency that will produce somewhere north of a .222 batting average don’t you think. I would stick Brandon JOnes in CF next year and double guarantee you that Andruw will never be missed. Don’t think Andruw doesn’t know it either. That is why I feel if AJ wants to stay in Atlanta (as he says) it will be at a discount. If he goes elsewhere I can’t think of anyone that will lose any sleep over it. The money saved by the Braves there will help bring much needed pitching help.

The Braves need to continue to get younger to sustain a year end year out championship team. Certainly you need some vets (Renteria for Furcal has worked well near term)but overall youth is served. I feel the team below would be perfect for ‘08

1st-Tex 2nd-Prado 3rd-Chipper SS-Escobar C-McCann LF-Diaz CF-Brandon Jones RF-Francouer

I project Kelly Johnson is traded for pitching in the off season. Lillibridge may be a year away but would work well with Prado in the infield as needed. Both of them are natural infielders and far better defensively than KJ. Batting average most likely would be a wash.

Pitching…while nobody has brought this up just yet ( I don’t think) Smoltz is getting to the point that I feel his age will become a big factor next year. Hope not. Great to have him, a true athlete and competitor, but for the bRaves to make a serious run it won’t be with offense over the long haul. The Braves are one dominant pitcher away from being one of the top teams. During their long run to greatness they always had 3 top pitchers. Early on Glavine, Avery, Smoltz then Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine. Throw in Millwood after Maddux left etc. So you see the Braves common denominator has been Smoltz all these years. Gotta end sometime. Better get that top pitcher now. Not sure who yet but I know it won’t be Glavine ( I hope not). ?, Smoltz, Hudson, James, Hampton (hold your breath) would be perfect.

Oh well…rambled enough. Don’t get on here as often. Miss the music banter too. Just catching up and following the R-Braves. They won at Durham last night B.Jones had 3 hits. Hope they make it to the series. Boyer is on the hill tonight in Durham.

Rock on…….wondering what ever happened to Midnight Oil.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Braveheart I’ve said since I’ve arrived at this blog that I have the utmost respect for Chipper and more Mets fans do than you guys think. The only one’s who say they hate him and he sucks are the obvious idiots and we all know who they are. If I’m building my all time playoff team the last 25 years -Chippers on third. As for owning the Mets - I believe that belongs to Mr Pat Burrell of the Phillies.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

The Braves have won 1 game post all star break in which they haven’t scored 5 runs……

The team can’t win close, low-scoring baseball games.

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Paladin dont worry, we will take care of business.

By Lew

September 12, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Good Morning All- A couple of points on this season and where we need to go next year. I did some research and here’s what I came up with. The Braves have lost 21 one run games and 12 two run games. In addition, they have a record of 62-42 when Smoltz, Hudson, James and Carlyle pitch (through last night). Now this shows me that it is the fifth starter (what we should already realize) that is our major pitching problem-the other four-maligned though James and Carlyle have been-are more than capable of handing us a division (the Mets are 20 games over .500, just like the Braves in those four’s starts) and B. The bench is not helping (which we also realized). This leads to somewhat of optimism for next year-if we can make a couple of changes.

In the offseason, I think what we need to do is this-get a new bench (Orr, Harris and Woodward need to go-no ifs ands or buts). They have been a dead weight on this team all year (though Harris has done well-part of the time-as a starter). They can’t hit. They can’t advance runners. Their only positive is they can play multiple positions. So can many others, probably available at decent $$$$. We also need at least one more starter-probably a solid number 3 guy. If we could get a solid number three (there’s no number one or two available worth the money), we could shift Chuck downwards, which is where he would have been if not for Hampton’s injury. Let Carlyle, Cormier and Hampton shoot it out for number five. With the bullpen we will have available next year (even not counting on Gonzo), we should do quite well. If we could have converted half of the one and two run games to win (which could be easily done with new #3 and a bench), we would have 90 wins right now and would lead the Mets in the division. Think about it. Not out of the realm of do-ability. What do you think of those moves, Coach?

By Will

September 12, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Dave Justice was a leader on the early 90’s teams and 95 team. Its no coincidence they have not won another title since they traded him. By the way the Mighty Braves are 13-25 in 1 run playoff NLCS or World Series games since 1991. and an even worse 5-13 in 1 run playoff games in 1991-1993.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Will,

Unfortunately baseballreference.com doesn’t have a way to break down post season games, that I can find.

But I think 16 years worth of regular season games tell us more about a team than a relative handful of post-season games.

By Lee in S. GA

September 12, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Unless a leader would have demanded Redman, Davies and Lerew not to start any games, and for Langerhans, Wickman, Thorman, Wilson, Woodward and Orr not to be a part of this team, and for A. Jones to be his usual self, and to prevent several managerial decisions made by Cox, I do not think a leader would have made a difference.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Efrim,

Is it surprising that they can’t win close, low-scoring games considering they do not have a particularly good, deep pitching staff?

By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)

September 12, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Dadgum that team you mention is way too young, need experience on the field also, besides chipper and maybe tex you are talking inexperience.

I still think edgar should not go away.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Anders

You worried about El Duque?

And I am guessing that you are rooting for the Padres to win the division so you will play the D-Backs in the first round. Am I correct with that assumption?

By Will

September 12, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I agree its hard to compare reg season and post season games, but those postseason stats tell us just as much about the Atlanta Braves as anything else.

By 22oz

September 12, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

I had been wondering who had been removed from the 40 man roster to make room for Sammons, but upon counting, there are only 39 players on the 40 man roster. It becomes 44 once you factor in how many players are on the DL though…

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Shaun

No not at all. That is why we need to trade for more pitchers that can get people out.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Will,

I agree Justice was let go too early, although it was to make room for Andruw, but did his leadership skills really guide the Braves to their division titles or their one World Series title?

Is it coincidence that they only won one World Series with Justice? Probably not coincidence but it’s silly to assume a connection there, don’t you think? Yankees haven’t won since Ricky Ledee left. Should we assume a connection?

By Braveheart

September 12, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

What they needed this season is a normal Andruw and a deeper pitching staff.

Agreed Shaun. However, I am not gonna put too much of the blame on Andruw. This team scored 4.8 runs per game before Tex, 5.4 runs a game after Tex. That is a pitching deficiency.

Yes, Andruw is paid at a level where you expect him to be much more productive and yes he had to be more productive as a cleanup hitter. But he is a centerfielder. A team with an entire infield in the top 5 in OPS in the majors can suffer through a centerfielder having a subpar year for him but basically an average year for a centerfielder (well, sort of - his OPS numbers are slightly lower than average this season - but he still has power that most CFers don’t provide). The fact that he hurt the team at cleanup is not so much his fault. He was trying. He just did not have it this season.

The fact that he kept hitting cleanup for so long was his manager’s fault. If you move your pawn such that you become vulnerable to a checkmate, you don’t blame the darn pawn, you blame the idiot who moved the pawn.

At the end of the day though it was not the offense. It was not Cox. It was not Wickman, Soriano or the pen. It was not Woodward or Orr. It was the lack of quality 4th and 5th pitchers.

23-36 when Hudson, Smoltz, and James are not starting with a 6 something ERA.

21-10 with Hudson (not his fault)

16-12 with Smoltz (the offense let him down)

14-13 with Chuck (what you would expect out of a second year #4 starter)

11-8 with Buddy (much more than you could have expected out of him)

3-5 with Cormier (3-3 since he came back from the DL in August with a 4.37 ERA - exactly what you want out of a fifth starter - 17 earned runs in 35 innings in 6 starts - good innings per start for a fifth - actually, if you look at 3 of Cormier’s starts, you realize he pitched better than his actual line said he did - in 3 of those games he was left in a few batters too long - 4 scoreless innings in his first start against Philly before giving up 4 runs without getting an out - 7.1 innings of 1 run ball against the DBacks before being left in too long and giving up a 2 run homer - 5 innings of 1 run ball against the Nats before being allowed to stay in an inning too long and giving up 3 extra runs - without those runs being given up by staying in too long, he has really given up 9 earned runs in 33.7 innings for a 2.40 ERA).

0-7 with JoJo

1-4 with Redman

7-10 with Davies

1-2 with Larew

By Lee in S. GA

September 12, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

If a someone productive (pitcher) is sought after in a trade and Edgar is not traded then it has to be another good above average player. That limits it to Diaz, Johnson, Tex, Chipper, Francoeur, Escobar or McCann ( not counting any pitcher). Edgar, Johnson or Diaz, I assume would be the leading candidates.

Perhaps we can continue to trade away our farm system players. Not sure if this is good or not. Maybe even Chuck James could be an option.

Bottom line is “You cannot have your cake and eat it too”

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Will,

Do those post-season stats tell us that much? I guess it depends on your beliefs about one-run games and also about winning in the post-season.

I firmly believe that luck or chance or whatever you want to call it plays a huge role in close games (it’s not the only factor, mind you, but I think it plays a huge role). Well, I think it plays a role in all games but the game will likely turn on a fluke play or two in close games.

Also, I believe the evidence is pretty clear that good power-pitching wins playoff games. The Braves have basically had one power pitcher consistently in the rotation in the ‘90’s—John Smoltz.

Given all this, I don’t think Cox is necessarily the primary person we should be blaming.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Dadgum

I project Kelly Johnson is traded for pitching in the off season.

I won’t be a fan of this team if Kelly Johnson is not on it next year. He has had a better year than Heap or Frenchy.

What is not to like about the 80 walks and .860 OPS that Kelly is going to have this year???

I guess everyone is in love with the .341 OBP of Frenchy and .323 OBP of Heap.

By Will

September 12, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Its not silly at all to say that about Justice. He always got big hits, espeically in the playoffs. He even continued to do so for other teams. They were trying their darndest to blow it in 95 til he hit his solo HR in game 6 and Glavine pitched the game of his life. Thats cool though if you wanna mock my statement by throwing that Ricky Ledee one in there, that is ridiculous.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Braveheart,

I agree. Offense is good without a normal Andruw. But with one or the other—a normal Andruw or good pitching—maybe they are closer or are leading the Wild Card race. With a normal Andruw and better pitching, maybe they are closer or are leading the divisional race.

By Will

September 12, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you believe what you want about 1 run game stats, but those playoff stats show what kind of manager the Braves have. I have always thought he was a great regular season manager and a very poor playoff manager. It always seems whatever bobby does in the reg season it turned to gold and and whatever he did in the playoffs turned to s**. Also did not help that they lost one of their few players (dave justice) who was outspoken and had a heart.

By Will

September 12, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Shaun, PS: I am also not trying to lay all the blame on Cox by any means. It is not his fault that 90% of the Braves players forget how to hit a baseball when the calendar turns to October.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Will,

So, it was Justice’s hits and not his leadership that helped the Braves and his other teams? Thanks for proving my point.

What do his hits have to do with leadership skills?

Also, Chipper has a higher AVG/OBP/SLG in the post-season than Justice.

By Thrillhouse44

September 12, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Efrim, I agree that it would be tough to see KJ traded away after this year. Dude’s a baller. JS will do what it takes to bolster this staff, so it may mean we’ll have to see one of our favorites go. But I’ll still be a fan of this team no matter who gets traded.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Dadgum, it’s been said many times here, and it’s accurate (straight from Braves officials), that Brandon Jones is not a center fielder. He’s a corner outfielder, period. Doesn’t have great range.

He’s got “left field” written all over him.

Oh, and Midnight Oil disbanded in 2002, about the time that Peter Garrett (the bald lead singer) decided to focus on his career in politics.

Just googled him to find out if he’s still a senator or whatever in Australia, and I found that his title is “Shadow Minister for Climate Change, Environment, Heritage and the Arts.”

They reunited for a charity benefit in ‘05, but just for the one gig.

By Will

September 12, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Shaun, I did not say a word against chipper’s playoff hitting. Not gonna aruge the Justice stuff anymore. You are right i have no idea what i am talking about, he definitely was not one of the Braves leaders on and off the field. There is not a stat for everything sometimes in a clutch situation there is one particular guy you want up there and that was David Justice.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Will,

I think you are just one of those people who needs to place the blame on someone and can’t accept that maybe the Braves truly didn’t get the breaks in the playoffs. Also, it’s pretty clear that power-pitching gives you a distinct advantage in the playoffs and the Braves haven’t really had all that much. Studies tell us that and common sense tells us that.

I just have a hard time believing Cox just turns into a bad manager in the post-season. I mean he wins the third-most one-run games over the course of 16 regular seasons yet he somehow magically turns into a bad manager in one month of the season?

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Great stuff DOB. You hit the nail on the head. Lots of hits, lots of HRs, great batting average. Unfortunately, those hits were not spread around enough to bring us more victories. When we win, we win big, when we lose, its a close game. Just the opposite of Arizona who wins close games and gets blown out in may of their losses(Shaun’s nightmare). Situationally, when we have faced run scoring opportunities where a simple base hit will do, we seem to want to do more, to be more ESPN worthy. Chicks dig the long ball, right? This is endemic to the Braves and I think it starts at the top. Top management needs to reassess our failures and make adjustments. Had we the pitching to get us to the playoffs, I still think our inability to manufacture runs would likely catch up with us. Either put some serious emphasis on doing the little things better or get new personnel who will. I also think TP has some explaining to do. He would be the manager closest to that situation. We need to be more well rounded.

By Lew

September 12, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Efrim-Yes, I am happy with McCann and his OBP. The guy has played injured much of the year and still performed at an All Star level. Yes, I am happy with Francoeur’s .338 OBP. He raised it by 45 points over last season, has raised his BA over 30 points, is on pace for a .290-.300 season and will exceed 100 RBI yet again. However, that being said, I agree with you about keeping Kelly Johnson.

Now the changes I would make next year would really be minimal. I don’t think radical changes are necessary. As I mentioned above, the bench needs total revamping. Period. Bring in new guys who can hit and advance runners-players with a history of hitting in clutch situations coming off of the bench. This is our number one priority, to my way of thinking. It is, I believe, the reason we lost so many close games.

We need a number three starter that can eat up innings. This should be someone we could sign as a free agent, or someone who could be traded for without giving up half of our veterans and all of our top prospects. I won’t begin to speculate on who it could be, but I’m sure there is someone out there who would fit the bill.

Andruw is gone-gone with no arbitration offered. Period. You just can’t take the chance and if he was to return on a single year basis, would you get any better performance from him than was received this year? I wouldn’t chance it, nor will JS. This leads to my outfield solution. Francouer must move to center. Yes, I realize he is an excellent right fielder, but he will do fine in center. Diaz and Kelly Johnson platoon in left field. Johnson will be two full years removed from his surgery and there have been no ill effects on his arm that I can see. (Alternatively, give Diaz the job full time and keep platooning KJ and Escobar at 2b and use Yunel as fill in for Chipper) . Brandon Jones moves to right. The guy has to get his chance. This gives us quite a good offensive outfield and Diaz/Johnson will not shame us in left defensively.

This leaves Tex at first (he MUST be re-signed long term and I believe he will be), Escobar at second, Edgar at short (we can’t give up his power and consistency, especially with AJ’s power gone) and Chipper at third. Hopefully Aybar will come back strong, or a suitable sub for Chipper should be found. Brayan Pena needs to be the backup catcher. Voila-a good team without major expenditures (other than resigning Tex and a #3 starter) and without selling off the farm or vets.

By Will

September 12, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you are darn right the Braves never get the breaks in the playoffs. But man when that happens 13 out of 14 years is that really a coincidence?

By Will

September 12, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

I have a problem with many of the post season flop jobs from 97-present. I am not gonna get on the early 90’s teams. If Lonnie Smith doesnt stop at 2nd, Jeff Reardon doesnt blow Game 2, and Mark Wohlers doesnt give up the HR to Leyritz they would have won all three of those years. That does nothing to change the fact that the Braves have gagged in the playoffs for ten years straight.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

Efrim I’m not worried about El Duque based on last night’s performance. He was off for 12 days and is coming back from an injury. He’s a feel type pitcher so I expected some issues. It was somewhat worse than I thought it would be. However, you can never feel absolutely comfortable with him. Look at last year. He hurt himself jogging in the outfield before a game and his season was over. As for the Padres or Diamondbacks I still haven’t given up on the Phillies catching the Padres.

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Will,

Well, the Braves not getting the breaks is not the only reason they only one one World Series. There’s also the fact that they really only had one consistently good power-pitcher, they never really had a dominant closer, Bobby Cox hasn’t been perfect, later on they were maybe the third- or fourth-best team in the playoffs.

Sure, we would expect a team to win more than once given that many playoff appearances. But you don’t have to dig all that deep to see why the Braves only won once. There were simply a lot of factors working against them besides Bobby Cox or the inability to be “clutch.”

By Will

September 12, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Two questions involving Boras clients: Does anyone think there is any chance the Braves would be dumb enough to re-sign Andruw? My worst fear is they will sign him to a 1 year deal. He has been terrible for 1 1/2 years straight his time is up here. Also, I am all for re-signing Tex, but do they really have much of a chance to do that? I have a hard time seeing this ownership shelling out what Tex could garner on an open market.

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

LEW

You and I agree 90% of the time, but I totally disagree with putting Frenchy in CF. Did you see him go back on that ball in Sunday’s loss vs Washington’s Jiminez? He looked like me. You either have those defensive instincts or you don’t. He doesn’t. With the vulnerablity of the SP, you can’t sink too far with your CF defense.

Is KJ a no go in the OF? I’d like to see him and Diaz platooning out there.

By Braves Fan 79

September 12, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Wow we won in a blowout….imagine that! If we had just swept the nats we would be 4 back with a realistic shot at it. But for some odd reason Bobby used the best relievers out of the bullpen on sat during a blowout. Then turned around and in a close game on sunday used the struggling ones. I was at the game on saturday and was thinking….moylan, acosta…WHY!! NOW WE CANT USE THEM TOMORROW! and what do ya know…it came back to bite us! Were gonna loose games like we did on monday, but theres NO excuse for loosing like we did on sunday! I cant even count the # of games badly managed by cox this year! This sucks…i wanna see chipper and smoltz have ONE more chance at the WS so bad….but man we gotta get Bobby some help on the bench! Someone to be like….”hold up…this might be the last scoring chance of the game and u wanna bat woodcrap!??”
or “this is a small ballpark, u sure u wanna bring in a fly ball pitcher like wickman??”
or “theres 2 outs and no one on base…how about we walk puljous!”

How about the decision to leave 2 guys on the roster with around .215 career averages over a .350 hitting escobar? TERRIBLE! man how many hours ive wasted on the Braves this year. Only to be undone by bad roster moves and bad game decisions. Owell next year will be the same…ill watch almost every game on tv and go to games when im off work. I STILL BELIVE IN THIS TEAM! well next year that is. (if we bring back woodcrap i swear i will of lost all confidence in JS and Bobby!)

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Will,

I don’t think the Braves will sign Andruw because he’s going to be too expensive. And I think a team is going to take the risk that this is a fluke season and offer a long-term deal.

Also, about him being terrible, he actually had pretty significantly better OBP and SLG in the second half of ‘06 than in the first half.

Sorry. Not trying to make it pick-on-Will day. You are tossing up some interesting subjects.

By ncscoots

September 12, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

I see that it might be long hot stove this year, so let me get this post out now. Then I can just recycle it later on, LOL.

If Andruw goes and Edgar is traded, LF must give the Braves the run production they’ve previously enjoyed in CF. Bad year or no, AJ still delivered 30/100, if practically by accident. Expecting any combination of Diaz, KJ (!), or Brandon Jones to give the Braves that kind of OF run production is very optimistic, IMO. It might happen, but I’d hate to think that’s Plan A.

I don’t really care who plays CF, or what they hit, as long as they can go get the ball and throw it once they do. Hit the guy 8 and live with it. But for that to happen, Braves need a banger in the OF. And they are unlikely to find a CF who fits the bill, so LF is the spot.

I’m a big fan of Escobar, and I think Brandon Jones has a good shot at being very good, but expecting those two to provide the same run production in 2008 as Renteria and AJ might is walking on a thin ledge.

By The Grinch

September 12, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Will, glad you came around to Shaun’s way of thinking finally. As soon as the rest of us do, then the global assimilation can begin. Time is not a factor; Shaun’s are quite patient. :-)

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Lew

I really don’t understand why you are committed to moving Frenchy to CF. I just think it’s overkill. He is an excellent RF who has a cannon. I really don’t get why you want to move him there. His range is good, but it isn’t like the guy is Ichiro. To be honest with you, I am not at all impressed with his ability to get good jumps on balls as well. A lot of the time he makes up for it because he has good closing speed, but that won’t work in CF.

I also think we should keep Kelly at 2nd base. Platoon Brandon Jones and Mat Diaz in LF and sign or trade for a CF.

Again, if Renteria is traded for a cheap pitcher like a Noah Lowry type, then there is no reason why we can’t sign Mike Cameron for 2 years and 16 million dollars.

And as far as Frenchy and Heap go. They have improved as hitters, but the fact of the matter is that they need to walk more. Both of them. As NCScoots just said above, if Rernteria and AJ leave, we need more production from our younsters. That goes for Frenchy and McCann as well. They are very good right now, but next season we need them to be great if we are to beat the Mets and Phillies.

We also need better pitching as well. A lot better.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Lew Diaz, Kelly Johnson, Escobar and Brandon Jones all regulars or platooning regulars in your everyday lineup for 2008? You realize that’s about 7 total years of major league experience between those 4 guys? Plus 3 guys playing new positions. Voila - you have another .500 team.

Plus I don’t think a cheap plan like that will exactly entice Tex to hook up his wagon for another 7 years or so. Remember, playing close to home doesn’t help if the team isn’t willing to be competitive. Just ask Glavine.

By MegaBravesFan

September 12, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Now, I must say that around the trade deadline last year when the Andruw trade rumors arose, I said if the Braves traded him I would start a revolt. I grew up in the nineties and Andruw has been one of my favorite players of all time. Now that being said, I have several theories about why he is having such a down year, most of which have to do with his near departure from the Braves organization.
So, in light of his soon-to-be departure, I think we should at least give him the benefit of the doubt since he has brought so much to this organization. Think back to 2005, do you think the Braves could have made the postseason without him? I don’t. As much as I would love to see him stay in a Braves uniform, after this year I don’t think he deserves it. But to me, and to several of my friends, he was an instrumental part of the 14. That…you cannot deny.

By MegaBravesFan

September 12, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

Now…with all that said about Andruw, I think the scouts should go across America and just find the fastest man available, teach him how to catch a ball and bunt. He can be our centerfielder until a better option comes along.

By ppaddy123

September 12, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Efrim, your proposal that the Braves need a cheap, good young pitcher is RETARDED! 1st, they are few and far between and 2nd, any organization with cheap good young pitching will likely hold onto those pitchers. The Braves will need starting pitching, but they need a #1 starter to take the pressure off Smoltz and Hudson. This year, every time they started, it was a must win situation. We need a rotation that can shut teams down come playoff time. Smoltz and Hudson won’t shut anyone down when they’re pooped

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I agree with a whole lot of what you said at 11:52.

In fact, I don’t DISagree with any of it.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

DOB

I think that may be a first.

But do you agree with what I am saying with Heap and Frenchy?

They are really good and are going to get better. But they will need to be great to help this team unseed the Mets at the top of the division. No 23 year old’s should have that pressure, but they do. It’s a tough spot for them and they are doing a great job, but again, we will need more next year from them and guys like Chuck.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123 Ease up on calling people retarded. Feel blessed if you have all your health.I have a number of friends who are retarded. Most of which I met on this blog - but that’s not the point.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

PPaddy123

You can’t see Noah Lowry being enough for Edgar Renteria?? I could. In fact, I am not sure if I would even trade Renteria for Lowry.

The guy has Horacio Ramirez written all over him. Walks way too many hitters.

I am not sure if you know this, but the Giants are DESPERATE for position players for next year. In fact, I really don’t even know if they could field a team unless they deal some of their pitching. Not saying they will trade Lincecum or Cain, but you can bet they will be fielding offers for Lowry and Jonathon Sanchez this offseason.

By ppaddy123

September 12, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Are the offended, or are you? I honestly don’t think your “special friends” give a crap!

By Lew

September 12, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave and Efrim-I just don’t agree-Francoeur is the best avaiable choice-we need to spend $$$$ for pitching and a great bench. Anders-I’m sorry Dude, but what is your problem here? KJ has a phenomenal OBP, he walks frequently, hits for average (.290 just ain’t bad), hits for power, drives in runs, has ten triples, so he has speed, plays second and the outfield and hits anywhere in the lineup from 1st to 8th and does so without griping about it. That’s all the experience that I need from him.

Escobar hits for average, has shown enough power that he could hit 10-12 HR in a full season, plays three infield positions and has a cannon for an arm. He also hits anywhere in the lineup and has great base running potential. He just needs some experience. The only way to get it is to play ball.

Diaz has hit well over .300, against both RHP and LHP for a couple of years now. He has proven that he works just fine in a platoon and has convinced many here (me too) that he could handle left field on a daily basis. You have a two year Braves track record with Diaz. I fail to see why you would be concerned with his inclusion in the Braves’ lineup. Just where has he not excelled? Even his defense is better than many (again, myself included) thought it could be.

Seems to me that the only real question mark of the group you mentioned is Brandon Jones. However, with the Braves phenomenal track record of bring up great position players on a regular basis from their farm system (quite possibly the best in all of MLB), I’m not concerned in the least. Just why are you, as a Mets’ fan, so concerned? Does that potential lineup worry you if we get a bench and some more pitching?

By TennesseePaul

September 12, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: Nice round up. Save it to a text file. And about once a week from here until the end of spring traing you can repost it, minor changes when spots are filled or moves are made.

I’d be satisfied with a weaker offense if it meant we had better pitching. Taboo I know. This is the modern era and you need thumpers, or so common wisdom screems.
In 1995 something special happened. The Braves won the World series. That year they ranked 21st in runs scored. 3rd to last in batting average. 24th in on base percentage. (Mind you, all these rankings are across the majors, not just the league. They were practically dead last in the league for most of these figures). The Braves were right smack in the middle of the majors in Slugging and walks.
That same year they were number 1 in pitching. It was pitching. Pitching. Pitching. They also had a pretty solid defense. So if the corners don’t bop, but we have great pitching, I’ll take it.
I highly doubt we’ll be able to get that level of pitching again, but we can aim for it, and make up the rest with a better producing offense compared to 1995. And right now we are drastically improved in offense compared to 1995. We’re 7th in the majors in Average. 8th in Slugging. 9th in on base percentage. And 7th in runs scored.

I agree with Efrim as well. I see no need to move KJ. He’s doing a great job at second. No need to move Francoeur either. I’d go so far as to say if we move Renteria and if we lose Andruw Jones, we could play Escobar at short, and any above average to incredible defensive outfielder in center, and still manage to win a lot of games so long as the starting pitching is improved. Our offense could absorb these knocks so long as our pitching is improved. We need pitching. Pitching. And more pitching. And if at all possible, if/when we make a trade for a pitcher, I’d like to see some minor league pitching included coming back our way as well. Once we’ve solidified the rotation, maybe we should sign a bunch of extra pitching bums with the purpose of trading them to starving teams at the break for whatever else we need.

By Kentavo

September 12, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Is there anyway the Blue Jays part with Halladay? What if Escobar were in the deal? Would any of you denizens make that trade?

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Shaun I just returned for a minute and while I am here I want to address something with you. Before you call Williams “Barroid-like” in any way, look up how many combat missions Barroid flew in the Pacific and in Korea. Then, look up the same on Ted Williams and the numbers he still put up. And report back.

And for the rest of you who took exception with my “leader” remarks: A leader leads. You with me so far? Preferably, he leads by example. For example: A leader is not an executive or boss who sits here blogging all day while the employees do all the work. That is an Anders

And as far as Chipper is concerned, I am convinced the reason he is not in the lineup is because he is afraid he will go for an 0fer, and have to listen to the “Larry—Larry” cries from the Muts fans. But, by being in there, hurt, he would be showing his team mates that the team comes first, before his BA, HR totals and ego. That is leading by example.

By 22oz

September 12, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Happy 76th birthday to The Possum, George Jones!

By Lew

September 12, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, Efrim and Tampa Brave-Look, I hear what y’all are saying. I really do and don’t disagree with you that radically. However, I see it mostly as a matter of asset allocation.

First of all, I have disagreements with some (though not y’all) about how much $$$$ there will be to spend. I think dumping Andruw and Wicky’s salary will result in a wash with the raises due those (we all know who) will be in line for them. I think getting rid of Edgar is sheer insanity. The rest of the $$$$, which I believe will come in the form of a fairly substantial boost in salary from Liberty Media (I see Tex’s arrival as proof of $$ to come) should go to rebuilding our bench into a much more formidable group than the current occupants and pitching-just like y’all do.

Now I’m thinking that A. You will never replace Andruw’s defense B. Any of the better options (ie Torii Hunter and Mike Cameron-ouch!) are going to cost much more than we can afford and still improve those areas that are bleeding profusely. So you go with what other options you have.

Now in CF, what are your realistic options if you can’t afford Hunter et al? Blanco? I don’t know. Can he pick it with the best? Again, I don’t know, Ive never seen him play. However, I haven’t heard any word from DOB or the Braves indicating he may be the answer. I DO hear much of his lack of power.

Is Brent Lillibridge an option? Again, I don’t know. We seem to get mixed reports in reference to the baby-faced Pittsburgh acquisition. How good is he defensively? Can he hit at the ML level? Do we need to find out with him AND Brandon Jones both coming up at once? Do we need two thirds of our potential outfield to be rookies-unproven rookies?

In my mind, that leaves Jeff Francoeur remaining. Is he a great right fielder? Undoubtedly. Can we replace him in right? Probably, if Brandon Jones could play right. We keep hearing the incessant drone from the Braves of “He’s only a corner outfielder. He doesn’t have the range for center field”. OK, I’ll go along with that evaluation. If everyone in the Braves organization feels that strongly, then who am I to quibble? But Francoeur DOES have the range. Efrim, by your own admission, he exhibits late speed in getting to a ball. Does it really matter if he isn’t standing there waiting for the ball like Andruw? Of course not, as long as he DOES get there. Does he have the speed? Of course he does. Does he possess a superior arm? Rhetorical question, assorted Dudes. We ALL know he does. He has played the position before. Both a couple of games in the bigs and in HS. So there it is. Logically, finacially, Francoeur is the best option for center field.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Kentavo

Halladay? For Escobar?

How about Escobar, Francouer along with Tommy Hanson and Cole Rohrbough?

Come on man. Halladay is one of the 5 best pitchers in the league.

Anders

Your post around noon is the dumbest thing you have ever said.

The Braves don’t have the money to spend to bring on tons of veterans. You should know that.

Go ask the D-Backs if experience means anything as long as you have ability.

By TennesseePaul

September 12, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Remember, playing close to home doesn’t help if the team isn’t willing to be competitive. Just ask Glavine

As I, and many, many, many Braves fans recall, Glavine choose to play for an annual loser far, far from home because they offered more money and longer years, coupled with a soured relationship with a team that had won for over a decade which was close to home. So I’m not sure what the point of that comment was.

By Efrim

September 12, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Check out Joel Sherman’s article about the Braves and Glavine.

DOB

What the heck is the guy talking about?

By rammerjammer

September 12, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

We’re 16-23 in one-run games? If we win four, JUST FOUR, of those 23 games we lost, we would be ONE GAME OUT in the Wild Card. One game.

Man, if that doesn’t get your goat.

By rammerjammer

September 12, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

And it’s my uninformed opinion that there’s no way Glavine comes back to Atlanta.

If money’s his motivation, he’ll get more in NY. And if winning’s his motivation, well, look at the standings. And his family’s already told him they LIKE him playing in NY.

It just ain’t gonna happen.

By David O'Brien

September 12, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Happy birthday to George, indeed.

NEW BLOG IS UP

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Paladin,

Oh, I’m saying Williams had a bad relationship with the media and apparently a bad relationship with managers, and the Boston fans.

Also, I’ve read accounts contrary to popular belief that Williams was pretty bitter about being recalled to Korea. Not taking away anything from his service but maybe his motives weren’t as pure as some would like to believe. I’ll try to find the specific source.

I agree, he’s not Bonds, but as far as leadership on the baseball field, I don’t know if any of his contemporaries would have called him a leader.

By TampaBrave

September 12, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Paladin,

“The team comes first”???

Yeah, great!! Go out there and take an 0fer for the team to make an good example. Good call!! But as long as you convinced yourself, hey, it’s all good.

Lew

Agree to disagree on Frenchy. Not sure where you’re going to get pitching provided you do have some dollars to spend. We need a 1. If we are going to commit big dollars to a pitcher right now, better plan on age catching up with Smoltz next year. When he’s gone, what will we have? Certainly not anyone you’d call a stopper. I haven’t seen anyone available and no one is going to give up a stud, especially a young one. Where do you think we will get this pitching? My guess is another reclamation project. And no, Toronto is not going to trade Halladay to us for Escobar, well, unless we can produce pictures of the Jays owner naked with a donkey. Does Liberty media own any paparazzi type elements? Just a thought.

Here’s what I would like to see.

CF- Undetermined but with speed

SS- Escobar

2B- Renteria

3B- Chipper

1B- Tex

C- BMac

RF-Frenchy

LF-Diaz/K Johnson

To those who think KJ has done well defensively at 2nd this year, can I borrow your rose colored glasses? My daughter thinks she can do better. I like his bat which is why I suggested the OF, but not sure about his arm. Prado looks promising too.

By TennesseePaul

September 12, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Lew: I don’t know how much money Liberty is willing to allow. But I have a feeling that signing a player like AJ for 15 million or picking up Aaron Rowand for whatever isn’t going to be too much of a squeeze. The Braves and Liberty both knew that Hudson was going to make a lot more next year and so is Teixeira, so obviously there is more money there than being talked about. The lack of a definitive answer, in my opinion, is to keep the free agent bargaining reigned in. Tell Boras you have an extra 5 to 40 million to spend and he’ll raise his price on everything he brings to the table. Same goes with all other competent agents. The Braves payroll used to be in the 100 million range. I wouldn’t be surprised if it now has that high of a ceiling. But money isn’t going to solve the pitching woes. Trades are. Money will solve the position rolls.

By Ron Roberts

September 12, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Folks, it’s more apparent to me, anyhow, that Chipper’s injury issues mean we have to keep a guy like Edgar Renteria around next season. We can’t go with a lineup loaded down with younger hitters and no solid veteran .300+ hitter in there at the front end of the lineup.

If Chipper goes down and we’re without Edgar next season, we’re faced with putting out a lineup with KJ, Yunel, (who at 3B?), Tex, Diaz/Harris, new CF, Francoeur, and McCann.

If Chipper goes down and we keep Edgar, it’s a situation we’re far more capable of withstanding, moving Yunel over to 3B to cover for the loss, and losing only the more likely threat of the long-ball.

I’m still of the opinion that I’d prefer to see us keep Edgar rather than spend money on a sub-par hitting Mike Cameron, especially if there’s a kid in the minors who can handle the position defensively even if it means struggling at the plate. We can do that for the MLB minimum and put that Cameron money towards bolstering the rotation, right?

By Shaun

September 12, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Paladin,

Yes, I’m sure Chipper is afraid to fail. Because 35-year-old, big athletes never get injured.

By Anders

September 12, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Efrim I’ve haven’t said that they have to spend tons of money, but Lew’s plan was to get a 3rd starter and fill the rest of the positions with Cub Scouts. If you guys want to be competitive next year which I assume you do with Smoltz’s and Chipper’s clocks ticking you need to be willing to give up a good young player or two for the Vet’s you need. If you trade Renteria what makes you think the team you trade him too will give a good vet starter? The fact that they are taking a 33 year old short stop says they aren’t rebuilding and would want to hold their vet’s too unless they have an abundance of pitching, which I haven’t seen. Otherwise you have to give up a young stud to a rebuilding team who can unload a good vet pitcher. Do you really believe playing Diaz, Johnson, Brandon Jones, Escobar and adding a 3rd starter will make the Braves more competitive next year? Me personally, I think the Braves would be better served packing it in with the Vets they have and start rebuilding for 2 or 3 years from now. I know you’ll think that’s self serving but sometimes the truth hurts.

By Paladin

September 12, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Oh, I see, you can “see” Smoltz going out there on short rest and throwing 95mph fastballs and 89mph sliders(probably the hardest on the arm of all pitches)with a 43 year old arm(that obviously hurts him)but you can’t see Chipper playing with a “tweak in his oblique”. Interesting. Dumb! Stupid! Asinine! But, interesting.

By GoMets

September 12, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Hey Overlord, you must have spent a lot of time on that novel you wrote up there…thinking about the Mets in first place a lot aren’t you? Afraid of their new DYNASTY two in a row now, more income because of the TV network, a good reputation of a place to play because of Pedro…what do the Braves have to compare? Poor pitching, and fan base that doesn’t even sell out playoff games…you guys suck

By Drew

September 12, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Ah good old Braves fans the worst in Baseball, what i get a kick out of is how you people have the nerve to degrade any fan of any baseball team when you don’t even sellout a f*ing playoff game. You didn’t give a crap when u are winning and now you get all defensive when u are losing. I will admit, it was a great run 14 in a row, that was impressive won’t take it away, but again, for the love of God do not make fun of any other fan of any other team, because you people are above and beyond the worst fans in Baseball, and its not even close. And that includes Tanmpa Bay and Florida, oh it really does.

By Mikey

September 12, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

To Overlady and the rest of you non-believers, the braves time has come to an end. 14 divisional titles and all it did was get ONE world series title. You can bet the the Mets will top that paltry number in short order. Enjoy reading about the Braves playing golf in October, they will get used to it fast.

As for Overlady, hopefully the sad end of this failed season wont happen when your period is taking place, otherwise you will become even more unstable than you already seem to be. Loser.

By JoHungLo

September 12, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Overlord, are you the toothless, redneck dumbass you’re making yourself out to be? Exactly what have the Braves ever won?!?! Same as the “Muts” - ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IN THE LAST 21 YEARS. I think you and all other Braves fans who relish in winning division titles as some big accomplishment are the real “losers.” Enjoy third place you dimwit…

By jamie

September 12, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

3 thoughts on the Braves from a Mets fan:

1.I thought getting tex at the deadline was a pretty bold move, and it scared the p** out of a lot of us.

2.You’re reaaaaaaally gonna miss Andruw in cf

3.With much respect to Bobby C., he seems ready to be put to pasture.

Better luck next year.

By Paul A

September 12, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

Smoltz said it best about the Mets…”They’re better than we are.”

By Deb

September 13, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this

Wow….

The bitterness on this blog is something to read all winter. Braves fans getting personal with New Yawkers on and about 9/11, not very smart my fellow Atlantonians & “Americans”.

Hey Braves fans ever wonder why you watch a Mets game anywhere and you hear “Let’s go Mets” coming in over the play by play?

Cause they’re lovable losers & Americans love an underdog. The ‘69 Mets which just happen to beat the Atlanta Braves in the playoffs where and are the only Las Vagas 1000:1 shot ever to cash in.

Now they’re winning and you just can’t take it like men & woman. Get use to it Braves fans, the Mets are going to be good for a long long long very long time.

God help the Braves’ orginization if they just happen to win the entire ball of wax. Allot of crow will be served up by JS & BC that day.

By Ralph

September 13, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

The thing about Bobby Cox is that he use the same old tactics he did used in the 90’s, and it’s didn’t work in 06, and 07. All year long I have been saying the same old thing about the Braves. They lack the desire, motivation, driving force, inspiration, enthusiasm, in other words they play like losers, act like losers and have become losers. It’s not that the Mets are a better team, is that they know how to play better and play as a team. The Braves pitching staff was created in somewhere in the outer limits, unbelievably bad. The overall coaches of the Braves stinks something awful. Bobby Cox , will be back next year is a scarily thought. What can one say about a manager that keeps putting in a player, who can’t even hit his weight and he has being the same thing all year long, NOTHING,to help his team in time of need. A. Jones was voted as the player,I would say a pretty thick head manager, who has lost his senses. pitches would like to see batting with the bases loaded, by every team in the major leagues, they know for such that they have another strike out. Say what you will, but the Braves lost because of bad pitching , no timely hitting, and mainly bad managing. There goes another season of excuses, chipper record breaking disable list, Bobby playing blind man bluff, the player playing as individuals and not as a team, and imitating a little leaguer by trying to kill the ball and swing at everything except a strike. I hope next spring the Braves go back to the basic of 1,2,3, baseball. Because half of the players don’t belong in the triple A, let along in big leagues.

By Lester Reyes

September 14, 2007 2:06 AM | Link to this

Probably too late to get anyone’s attention on this, but…I saw where some were debating the relative merits of moving Francoeur to CF, using Ichiro as an example. Living in the Pacific NW, I get to see nearly every Mariners game. Let me say first that Ichiro is amazing; a bona fide superstar and franchise cornerstone, a five-tool player—like many scouts have said, he could hit 25-30 HRs if he wanted to, but it’s not his game, which brings me to my point: I will give Ichiro all his props and then some—he is a major-league-caliber CF (made his 1st error of the year there last night, although it was an ugly one—the ball fell right through his glove, and he seemed especially displeased with himself—what a concept!), but he is a world-class RF, meaning that his talents, and thus his team, are better-served having him there, but the team isn’t ready to turn over Safeco Field’s spacious central outfield to Adam Jones yet. And I think the case with Francoeur would prove to be even more an issue of having him overexposed in CF—he’s the best RF in the game right now, second best when Ichiro plays there, but that’s just it—he’s a right fielder. The Braves can and will find someone suitable to patrol CF next year—no, he won’t be Andruw, but Andruw’s once-in-a-generation, and he’s gone after September 30th.

By Lester Reyes

September 14, 2007 2:28 AM | Link to this

Oh, wait! I just had an epiphany about who will play CF for us next year! I admit, it took me a full year to come around to a certain way of thinking, but I finally see the value in what everyone was writing here this time last year: let’s trade uber-valuable Chuck James for Carl Crawford—that’ll work, right?!