AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > September > 11 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMets have “it,” and Braves do not
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
This is what a championship-caliber team does: After being knocked on its butt with everyone watching, it collects itself, gets up and comes out fighting harder than before.
This is what the Mets have done: After being swept in a four-game series at Philadelphia at the end of September, and seeing its lead cut to two games over the Phillies and 4.5 games over the Braves, New York has won 9 of its past 10.
Nine of 10, including four straight games against the Braves, three in Atlanta and last night’s 3-2 series-opening win at Shea.
This is what a non-championship team does, what a pretender does: Given repeated opportunities to stay in a race, it repeatedly fails to capitalize. It loses just about every close game in the crucial stages of the season.
Oh, and when things are at a nadir, that team starts talking more about how it can’t catch a break. Sorry to say, Braves fans, but you know what I’m talking about.
David Wright is making a run at the MVP by putting his team on his back, not quite as ferociously as Chipper Jones did with the Braves in his 1999 MVP season - Hoss’ 45 homers that season included four extra-innings game-winners — but at least worthy of being in the same discussion.
Wright’s a beast, folks. What a hitter. Damn.
Meanwhile, Chipper gets hurt again, in batting practice, with less than three weeks remaining in a season that’s spiraling down the drain. He’s probably out for the rest of the series, at least, though we’ll know more shortly after the clubhouse opens this afternoon.
Want to know another huge difference between these Mets and this year’s Braves? Oliver Perez has 14 wins (four against the Braves) and a 3.42 ERA, and yet the Mets lefty might not be one of the four starters in their rotation for the first round of the playoffs. So say the folks up here in New York.
The Braves would kill to have a third starter with 14 wins and/or a 3.42 ERA.
The Mets have won nine of 10 games, and beaten the likes of Hudson (twice), Smoltz, Oswalt and Harang in that stretch.
“You couldn’t have picked a better time to peak,” Wright told reporters last night after the game. “I think this is the best baseball we’ve played all season…. We knew that after that Philadelphia series, we really had to bear down.”
The Braves knew they had to bear down before their last road trip. Then they lost six of 10. The Braves knew they really had to bear down before their last homestand. Then they lost five of nine.
They really, really knew they had to bear down on this road trip. Then they lost the opener 3-2, getting five hits including one extra-base hit.
Braves hitters had seven strikeouts and two walks in seven innings against Perez, who had issued five walks in each of his previous three starts, and issued 22 walks in 28-2/3 innings over his previous five starts.
The Braves strike out too much, don’t walk enoughm, swing for the fences in crucial situations when they should make sure they put the ball in play, and fail more often than not in situational hitting, not to mention their horrid and infrequent use of the bunt.
Other than that, and the aforementioned starting pitching shortfall, really no reason I can find for the Braves to be where they are. Uh-umm.
Braves in close games — yikes: Since Aug. 16, the Braves are 9-15 and the Mets are 15-9. The Mets have hit for a 20-point higher average in that span and posted an ERA .30 lower. Oh, and very importantly, the Mets have played well in close games. The Braves? No. Not now, and rarely this season, have they done that.
The Braves are 3-7 in their past 10 road games, and six of those losses were by one or two runs, including four one-run defeats. Their only wins in that road stretch were by scores of 7-2, 13-2 and 7-4.
That’s what these Braves do, pile up a great many of their hits and runs in games they’ve won handily.
Let’s go back to that San Francisc0-Arizona trip in mid-August, when it really started to become apparent that these Braves just lacked something needed in close games, especially on the road.
They are 9-15 on the road beginning with consecutive losses in San Francisco Aug. 16-17, and in those 24 games the Braves are 1-7 in games decided by one or two runs.
They scored at least five runs in all nine road wins in that stretch, including seven or more in seven of those wins and nine or more runs in five of them.
It’s what these Braves do.
Country in New York City? It’s like that old Pace picante sauce commercial, where the guy sees that the picante sauce someone else is offering is made in New York City, and goes “New York City?!”
That’s what it’s like listening to two hours of the best country-music radio I’ve heard since, well, ever. Better than anything I’ve heard in Nashville (much better, actually), and better than anything I’ve heard in Atlanta (far, far better).
But that’s what you get when you listen to a anti-corporate-garbage station like this listener-supported 89.1 WFDU in Teaneck, N.J., which I believe is connected to Fairleigh Dickinson Univ. It’s one thing that makes staying at a LaGuardia-area hotel tolerable, rather than in the the city (Manhattan), where you can’t even get this station on the cheap hotel-room radios.
Killer station that plays all genres of music, and has genre shows like the country block they just finished. I’m talking everything from Hank and Loretta to George Strait and David Ball, from Johnny and Hag to Josh Turner. Awesome.
”SCAR” by Joe Henry
What does this look like to you?/A mark so fine, you barely see.
You have one just like it, too/A twisting vine,/A mark so fine;
Cause I love you with all I am/And you love me because you are
As fearless as a twisting vine,/A mark so fine/But still a scar
Fear plays dumb then eats the soul/Like a vagabond with a fishing pole
He whistles but he cannot sing,/It’s an awful tune
But very soon/I find that I am whistling, too
And your window is like a star/That I sit beneath like a vagabond
Who wears his fear/Just like a scar
The blade of our outrageous fortune/Like a parade, it cuts a path,
Light shows on our foolish way/And darkness on/our aftermath;
If I love you to save myself/And you love me because we are
So fool to think that our parade/Could leave a path/But not a scar
And I love you with all I am/And you love me with what you are
As pretty as a twisting vine,/A mark so fine/But still a scar
Comments
By chipdip
September 11, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
The braves just need to shut it all down…and shoot for next year. It was good while it lasted.
By Lee in S. GA
September 11, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
The Mets are hands down the best team in the division at present time. Interleague play also should have shined some light on this Braves team. I think it did but most people and some players blamed it on the tough scheduled more than anything.
A proven number 3 starter must be acquired by this team before next season. I am not counting on Hampton to provide this to them and James is not the answer eit
By Off the Bench Captain
September 11, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this
There is one reason the Braves have not contended. Starting pitching. Hudson and Smoltz have done what is expected from them. James has been a big disappointment. Cormier and Carlisle weren’t supposed to be that good anyway. If we go into next season expecting much from Mike Hampton, we’ll be in the same hole again. I say, “trade Edgar Renteria and a prospect for a 3 starter.” Drop Andruw and bring Brandon Jones up. Go out and get a closer that can help Soriano until Gonzalez gets back. This will be the first off-season we can see what this ownership group really plans to do. Oh, and lock up Tex for 5 more years!
By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)
September 11, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
DOB i think you have lots of fans, even muts fan come here to read your stuff, even they are plain stupid or dont have anything good to do with their lives. There might not be any good writers on the other end (queens).
Shame, shame, but it doesnt surprises me, they are muts fans, arent they, losers even if their team wins, hahaha, that sure is pathetic.
They think they are getting out of our shadow, they are sooooooooooo wrong, if that was the case, they wouldnt be here looking for us to accept them in baseball high society. LOL.
They are so f……….n affected for this situation of being in the shadow of the yankees and the braves that they dont know where to run, hahaha.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are so f…..ed up that they even went and got a pinstripe by heart as a manager to help them get a live and help them get out of misery.
I wonder what would *willie randolph * is asked on national TV to compare playing in the bronx and managing at queens, i would be surprised if he doesnt LOL, but well, he would not do cause he needs the job. Maybe he will just ask “is that a question or a joke?”.
Keep up trying muts, you have 12 years to go.
As far as i remember the last time the muts won a championship people didnt even talked about microsoft. I think people were using commodore 64, Soviets were dealing with Chernobyl disaster, the US attack tripoli, Reagan was in the white house, The Bears were the NFL champions at the moment, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were at their prime, Dan Marino was starting his 3er year with the Dolphins, even manuel antonio noriega was even ruling in panama (come on he is already out of jail after serving 17 years in prison), Augusto Pinochet was still ruling chile and Mike Tyson won his 1st fight.
WOOOOOOOOOOWWW!!!!!!!!!! long way back since the muts have something big to smile about.
Meanwhile in those long 20 years they have seen the sooooooooo hated braves win 14 straight division in their faces (even if they started the run in the west), braves win 1 WS and the yankees win 4 WS and 1 of those to the weak, crying baby muts.
But it gets worse, they only won the WS because billy Buckner couldnt move his wheel chair fast enough, grab the ball and step on muts neck, ooooooooppsssss i mean 1st base, sorry guys.
If the manager would have played stapleton at 1b for defensive purposes then the WS is over and we would be talking about……lets seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee……..how far before that………oh yeah, 1969……..MIRACLE MUTS……. They are soooooooooo bad, their 1st (and almost only championship) goes into baseball history as A MIRACLE!!!!!!!!
So what do we got here…….. all the mets have to show in their history is just MIRACLES!!!!!!!!!!
Boy that is what i call consistency, they should have called them in 1986 THE MIRACLE MUTS PART II.
What is sad is that their miracles comeas often as comet halley, well, maybe with more frequency.
Shame shame.
By ppaddy123
September 11, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
from the last blog…..Mr Giles still sucks!
By N8
September 11, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
As “far away” as it seems that the Braves are from the Mets (or even the Phillies), IMO, they are pretty close to being a very good team. But the window is a small one. Because Smoltz is only gonna get a year older each of the next two seasons.
So as UGLY as it is right now with only Smoltz and Hudson, we are possibly 2 years removed from having ONLY Hudson. YIKES!
So it is not only important to find a solid #3 for next year (moving Chuck where he belongs into the 4th, or even 5th spot if 2 starters are found), but for the future as well.
I have a feeling it’s gonna get worse before it gets better though, unless JS can pull a rabbit out of his hat this off-season.
We’ll see….
By Shaun
September 11, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
Not saying this would have made that much of a difference in the division race but the Braves third-best hitter got hurt to go along with the fact that the back end of their rotation is not that strong and they’ve been on the wrong side of close games.
By Ron Roberts
September 11, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
What’s scary, to me, DO’H, is that, on paper, the Braves have all the talent and tools necessary to win, and yet they haven’t.
Don’t get me wrong, it was a mistake (again) to go into this season needing anything out of Mike Hampton. Not being prepared for his absence was a HUGE mistake, I think. I think it was also a mistake to expect a continuation of Chuck James’ 2006 pitching acumen knowing he lacked a bona fide third pitch. He’s been good enough, in my mind, to be a 4th starter, at best, on a contending team. What the Mets did, was pick up the right pitchers, to make their run this year. They went after young guys with all the tools, and lacking the numbers (Oliver Perez comes to mind) to tweak their stuff or mindset into winners; they went after proven veterans (Orlando Hernandez) to add to their up-and-coming pitching stars (John Maine and watch out for Mike Pelfrey…let this kid get his mind right and he’ll be a thorn in our side for years) and lo and behold, they had a venerable, durable starting rotation with Glavine giving them the veteran stability needed to withstand the loss of Pedro most of the season.
We had Smoltz and hoped for a better Tim Hudson (which we got), but we had a lot more hoping in the rotation than certainty. We hoped Mike Hampton was coming back and coming back strong; we were wrong. We hoped Chuck James was going to be as good or show improvement from his rookie campaign, and we were wrong there, too. Then we had to hope Redman was a plausible solution once Hampton went down; then we had to hope Buddy Carlyle was another Jaret Wright; we had to hope Jo Jo Reyes was going to be our Noah Lowery, Tim Lincecum or Cole Hamels; we hoped Kyle Davies would finally put the tools to work with a sound mind and game plan. We went into (and out of) spring training hoping Lance Cormier might be the answer at the back of the rotation… A lot of hoping and not a lot of delivery from those hopes.
Sometimes, as a fan, I felt like our team was trying anything just to see what would happen. Then, when we got Mark Teixeira, I believe we all hoped that the offense would out-do the pitching shortcomings. We over did it in rebuilding the bullpen, and didn’t even do that very well, trading for a pitcher with arm issues last year and leaving a hole at 1B and the lineup in the process.
I think, going into this offseason, we’re in much better shape than last, no doubt. But starting pitching has to be addressed first and foremost. I’d tell Octavio Dotel to hang it up for the season with 2008 being his goal. I’m not saying we trash the sanctity of the playoff push by playing all youngsters, but the bullpen arms we’ve worn out need to sit and let some of these kids pitch. I want to see if Joey Devine’s got what it takes, finally. I like Acosta and Asciano and wanna see more of ‘em. I wanna see if there’s a potential starter in either of ‘em, or hell, Tyler Yates (work on a better off-speed pitch in the off-season and let that guy start some spring training games) for that matter.
The offense is set, with or without Edgar Renteria. Maybe he’s the key to what we need in 2008, but I wouldn’t expect anybody to send us a marque pitching name, and if I’m the Braves, I’m looking for a young, potential 1 or 2 starter this off-season. Smoltz and Hudson won’t be that guy in 2009 and beyond, and I don’t see it in the farm, either.
By Shaun
September 11, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
Stats be damned? Well, looking at the stats, it’s pretty easy to see why the D-Backs have a good shot at reaching the post-season: They’ve been on the right side (for them) of a whole lot of close games.
Braveheart,
Yeah, I guess it’s possible Knoblauch’s personal issues caused his on-field troubles. But his career started trending downward in 1998, with the exception of his good ‘99 season.
About HoJo, that is and odd phenomenon (where do I get it?). But he was actually pretty darn good in ‘86 and ‘88. Could have been they were platooning him more in those years with Ray Knight and Magadan and Jefferies in those years for some reason so he couldn’t find his groove; he did play less in those years.
By GTA
September 11, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
It’s almost sad to read the blogs anymore. This team, despite what the players say, make their fans feel like they have given up. We all know they play hard day in and day out, but they don’t play smart. And I don’t want to make this out to be a knock on Bobby, because he’s been the best manager in baseball the last 15 years, but this year hasn’t exactly been his best work. Hopefully this year was just a hiccup like the Indians last year. They should be able to regroup and go at it next year. I would be disappointed to see them finish under .500, but that really looks like the way its going. The Braves are the team that were supposed to get it done, but just couldn’t do it.
By mike
September 11, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB…What would you do this offseason as far as moves/deals to get this team back to the WS, given that you had a slight jump in payroll. Say $15 mil.
By the way…I loved the article. No BS and straight to the deal. This team has under acheived all season. They better get some passion and excitement back for next your cause this division isnt gonna get any easier. We are facing the Yankee’s payroll of the NL. And they will not back down from spending money to beat us. we have to take this division back next year, and return to the WS. GO BRAVES 08’!
By The Law
September 11, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this
Repeat Offenders.
We all read your posts in the last blog.
By Drixie
September 11, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
A lot of good things happened this year: Kelly, Escobar, Diaz, Moylan, Harris, etc. However, the lack of pitching beyond Smoltz and Hudson, and the loss of Gonzalez in the pen took its toll. Give the Mets credit: they had injuries and suspect pitching, but they came through when they needed to. We need to let Andruw go bye-bye in 2007 and get a solid starter or two with the money we save. The core of everyday players is very good, so fix the pitching and we’ll be on the winning side of those close ones in 2008.
By Anders
September 11, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Is anybody else getting Deja vu reading this?
By ncscoots
September 11, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Trade Edgar for a stud starter? If only it were that simple. First, find a SS-needy team that is contending, or close to it (otherwise, why do you want a veteran guy, at his salary?). Second, find a team meeting condition #1 that ALSO has extra pitching. And, oh by the way, do you think a contender is going to give up a young stud pitcher that probably is one of the reasons they ARE contending? You bet.
The idea (Edgar for pitching), while beautiful in concept and simplicity, upticks on the ugly stick when examined for actual executability. Bloggers expecting something in the realm of Edgar-for-Johan (or Roy, or Justin, etc.) should prepare their upcoming rants, starting now. You’ll want to be ready later.
By bruce
September 11, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
Dave, looked it up for you so you can stream on your PC… Bruce WDFU
By DonCoburleone
September 11, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
DOB you hit the nail right on the head with this team… The only thing you didn’t mention (which I think is the 800lb gorilla in the middle of the room) is perhaps that Cox’s message just isn’t getting through to the players anymore. I mean, when teams have talent to win and they don’t win big games at big times, shouldn’t some of that be on the manager? I for one think we should stockpile as many starters as we can this offseason and just go for broke in 2008. Make sure it is the last hurrah for Bobby Cox and John Scheurholz; IT’S TIME TO MOVE IN ANOTHER DIRECTION!!!
By Thrillhouse44
September 11, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Maybe we can find “it” next year. Perhaps Julio will tell us where “it” is and we can send Chuck James on a recon mission to find “it”. (Assuming he isn’t working at a hardware store.) Actually, I’d send Soriano - who would mess with him? Even if the Mess caught him taking “it”, they would probably just let him have “it”. Ahhh…How much space can I waste writing about “it”? Too much - sorry everyone.
David Wright: My cousin went to high school with and played basketball with DW. He said he’s a good guy and has nothing bad to say about DW. Well I do: He’s a Met!
By Braveheart
September 11, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Shaun, that Mets team in 1986 and the late 80s was stacked. Kevin “The Cat Beheading San Diego Gangsta” Mitchell and HoJo were only part time players in 1986.
They had 4 good closers on that 1986 team: McDowell, Orosco, Aguilera, and Randy Myers. Plus El Sid, Doc, Darling, Ojeda. With the Kid, Mex, Shuffle, the Lil Redneck, Nails, Straw, Mookie, Hojo, Ray Knight, Kevin Mitchell, George Foster, Elster, Magadan.
They later added Cone, Jeffries, McReynolds, Keith Miller, Mark Carreon, Randy Milligan, Frank Viola.
Chrissakes, Mets fans, you give Braves fans a hard time about only one World Series but you guys only won 2 division titles and one World Series with the collection of talent on those teams?!?!?!?!?
What a bunch of losers!
By DonCoburleone
September 11, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
Renteria for Marcum; Renteria for young arms from Detroit (maybe they’d be willing to part with Bonderman or Robertson?)… Those are the two teams with a definate need at shortstop (tigers moved Guillen to 1b) and with the financial means to get Renteria. They are also “close” to being real contenders in 2008 and 2009…
By DonCoburleone
September 11, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
LOL! Hows this for an interesting little tidbit: Saltalamacchia just hit a BOMB off of Jose Capellan in the Tigers/Rangers game… Pretty interesting huh DOB?
By uga-brave
September 11, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
dob,
absolutely dead on. you summed up the whole sorry season.
any thoughts on the current coaching staff, not a lot of major league experience there. got a feeing there are a couple of young players here that need a kick in the butt more then a pat on the back.
By 22oz
September 11, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
Simply put: “Bobbyball” is a big reason the Braves are where they are. Sit back and wait for the 3 run homer. They came close last night with a 2 run homer, but unfortunately, they missed a chance not bunting Edgar, which led to Huddy being picked off and Diaz striking out. Edgar is the only one who can actually bunt, and you don’t do it? Not only did the Braves not get the runs in, but they couldn’t even move them over. Sad and par for the course.
By PoliticalMan
September 11, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
Even though it has been abundantly clear for quite a while that the Braves do have what it takes to be a top-four team in the NL, we have all been subjected to the endless talk about just wait for the next road trip, series, trade, blah, blah, blah. At least now, everyone is going to shut up.
No the Braves are not set on offence for next yr. Way too many strikeouts and inability to do small things. Cannot steal a base. Can’t have Francouer and Jones in same outfield. Too similar at bat. Absolutely no bench. Can’t make up mind about 2nd base.
Pitching. Well here we are. Finally. We just don’t have any. Bullpens are a dime a dozen right. That’s what they think. That’s what we got. A bullpen worth a dime. Starters we got two. One old guy. One guy who fades in and out.
Folks, you better get used to losing. The turnaround is nowhere in sight.
By Hoosier Aaron
September 11, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this
Last night was pretty much the season in a nutshell. No outs - runners on 1st & 2nd - down 1 - 0. Instead of having Edgar bunt, move two runners into scoring position. Edgar lines out to 3rd & Hudson gets picked off 2nd…no runs.
We must lead the league in bases loaded and no outs - and pretty much nothing to show for it. If it’s not a wild pitch or a walk we don’t score.
Get back playing fundamental baseball - move runners over and get them in.
How ‘bout a squeeze or a hit ‘n run every once in a while.
This team should be scoring 7 - 8 runs every night.
We are not putting a .500 team on the field - but they are playing .500 - very frustrating.
By Anders
September 11, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Braveheart The core of that Met Team was only together for about 4 or 5 years. Half of that time they spent chasing women and blow. They’d make the Cincinatti Bengals blush with the crap that was going on in that clubhouse. It started at the top too. Davey Johnson, Frank Howard and Vern Hosheit were absolute drunks. They shared a house together in Nassau county and used to frequent a bar I knew. A good friend of mine’s wife was a waitress there. Those guys would stay in the bar Every night until 4:00 am closing time absolutely polluted, even if they had a 1:00 game the next day - No Lie. That’s why Frank Cashen ran Davey Johnson out of town on a rail. He was running a frat house. Pro sports in the 80’s was a crazy place.
By Lee in S. GA
September 11, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
“He has inflammation of the lateral aspect of his elbow - the outside of his elbow - and he will be shut down until he is pain free,” trainer Kevin Rand said in a statement.”
Above information is the latest on Bonderman
Beware of Bonderman trade in the off-season. This is exactly what the Braves need … another sore arm pitcher.
By David
September 11, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
Kills me as well that the Braves are so far out of it. Not that it’ll help win a game, but to add to yesterday’s blog topic…who’s ranked in the top 50. SI ranked the players before the season, with pitchers ranked separately from hitters…based on “projected performance.” The projections were off, in many cases… 27. Andruw 29. Tex 38. Chipper 51. McCann 96. Edgar 120. Frenchy 193. Johnson 205. Diaz 212. Thorman 248. Langerhans 396. Prado 13. Smoltz 38. Wickman 72. James 80. Hudson 106. Dotel 131. Redman 133. Gonzalez 144. Soriano 251. Cormier
By TennesseePaul
September 11, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
ncscoots: So true. However, first, find a team that needs a short stop of Renteria’s caliber. Second target a team that has a pitcher you desire. Third, see if there is a means of working a three way trade.
It isn’t improbable that Renteria could be moved for a pitcher. But it isn’t going to be simple.
This team is screwed if no pitching comes in. We have nice arms in the pen but that is pointless. We need better starters and we can’t develop better starters. Available free agent pitchers are on par with what we currently have so it will have to be done via trade. Otherwise, it’s another mediocre season for 2008.
By monty
September 11, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Instead of becoming more patient at the plate with so much at stake most of the guys have been over anxious to swing. Most of the time they don’t even swing at stikes. They get themselves out! This team has a bunch of emotional hitters. What I mean by that is they feed off of each other’s hitting.Hence their high batting averages and ability to score alot of runs at times when everybody is steamrolling along. But if nobody is hitting on a particular night, then it seems like batters come up trying to hit one out rather than trying to be patient and have a good at bat and grind it out.Joe Simpson said it best. In these high pressure type games when it’s do or die, a walk is a rally.Obviously most of the Braves think differently,I love those guys but they drive you crazy swinging at balls that aren’t even close to being strikes. THen when there is a close pitch with 2 stikes they take that one and cry when the ump calls it a stike. I was taught with 2 strikes anything close you’d better be swinging. These Brave seem to have been instructed to do the opposite of that and swing if it’s wild but take if it’s close!
By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)
September 11, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
Any updates on Chippers injury?
Any updates on AJ? (not that i want him to play, i want to hear that he is done for the season)
I wonder if the front office is as clear as we are that 2 SPs are needed, not 1 but 2 and some experience (good) players.
I like prado on the bench, he has good defense, but he should be the worst player to be on the bench, not the leader of the pack.
And here i go again…….out Yunel in RF next year, and we have all positions covered just like that.
1.Yunel—-2. Edgar—-3. Chipper—-4.Tex—-5.McCan——6.Matt——7. Jeff——8.KJ
By Shaun
September 11, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
Hoosier Aaron,
Edgar hit the ball hard. You really think it’s bad baseball to hit a line drive?
By wjones
September 11, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
I just read that the Jays resigned McDonald, so there goes the need for SS. Now if Glaus winds up suspended for steroids, might they want Edgar for 3B? Toronto is one of few teams that actually have a lot of starting pitching, but I just don’t see us getting better than a #3 for Edgar, no matter how many times people post it on here.
By rammerjammer
September 11, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
A difficult time is at hand, and it promises to become more difficult, if not sad.
We see this all the time in sports…the coach/manager staying around a little too long.
A leader long beloved, with so many accomplishments to his credit…but the last to realize his time has come…and now, gone.
DOB, you laid out some damning evidence for a verdict that reads, “this team was not ready to play and to win.”
Will the non-stop division titles return with a new field boss? Probably never. That was a combination of talent and luck.
But the Braves CAN become a fundamentally sound team again. They CAN succeed, but not without a bold move that signals “we mean business.”
That move is for Bobby Cox to retire at the end of this season.
Please…no barnyard noises or bathroom jokes. A new manager may be no more successful, but a new manager would hopefully instill baseball fundamentals in a team that is embarrassingly inept at the basics.
Fundamental soundness is the Braves’ best hope for greater success. Without the overwhelming rotation from back in the day, the new Braves must play pure baseball to win.
I hope Schuerholz has the courage of his convictions to do the right thing. No, take that back. I hope the manager himself looks in the mirror and says “It’s been a great ride, but it’s time for a change.”
By Frank Wren
September 11, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
Best blog of the year! Most straight forward and honest… IMO it’s pretty sad that Time Warner screwed us this year. I think if they would have let us spend the few extra million on Tom Glavine it would have changed the season dramaticly for both the Mets and the Braves. The NL East would be a lot closer right now.
By Kenlevy_99
September 11, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Q: What’s with all these negative comments? The Braves are in the middle of a pennant race and surely will win the wild card if they can’t catch a break and win the division!!! (The Braves themselves don’t even believe that one)
A: Reality. The party is over. The fat lady has been singing loud and clear since the week after we got Tex. As Bobby and John surely realize, baseball (especially in October) is a pitcher’s game. 1 and 2 are good but we don’t have an effective 3,4, and 5. Mike Hampton next year is not the answer. Hopefully we’re not dumb enough to believe that Hampton is going to be effective in 08.
By mattyblunt
September 11, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
this “mut” fan doesn’t need to dwell on the past. at present time, the braves are on their way to another disapointing season. mortgage your future away for a run that falls short. tex and dotel weren’t the difference makers you were looking for. looks like the magic tomahawk has lost its luster. bring up all those division titles and ONe world series wins like a warm blanky. it’s ovaaaaa. i can’t wait till next year when andruw isn’t around to catch all those gappers. then we’ll see how good hudson and smoltz are.
By John
September 11, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
Overlord Listen, I’m a met fan and I don’t read this blog looking to accepted into anything. I just admire the passion Braves fans have for their team. Also, Willie Randolph grew up a Mets fan, and also played for the Mets.
By AZBravoFan
September 11, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
DOB: At what point does the finger start to be pointed at TP? Don’t get me wrong, I love Pendleton. He was my favorite player on those early 90’s teams, I thought it was brilliant to bring him in as hitting instructor. But we’re talking about mounting strikeout totals, putrid bunting, uncannily poor situational hitting. Aren’t these things that the hitting coach should have some responsibility for? I realize he can’t go out there and swing the bat for them. And I know he’s been beating his head against the wall with Andruw. But could it be time for a new approach?
By DonCoburleone
September 11, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Toronto signed McDonald for like $1.8mil per season… The guy had an OPS of like .650 this year, one of the bottom 5 worst in the league… I’ve already read reports that they signed him as a defensive backup and would only use him as their everyday SS in a “worst case scenario.” Trust me, Toronto is still looking for a shortstop (especially one that can hit - Toronto is next to last in runs scored in the AL)
By David O'Brien
September 11, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Overlord, clubhouse isn’t open for another 20 minutes and Braves PR person isn’t here yet. So no, no updates….
Wjones, that’s quite a reach there — Toronto trading for Edgar, who’s never played 3B, to fill their need at 3B, that is, IF they have a need IF Glaus is suspended for steroids.
By uga-brave
September 11, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
everyone is sure banking a lot on about 300 abs out of escobar. for what we owe renteria next year i think it would be foolish to trade a .300 hitter that is actually clutch.
trade renteria and say escobar gets hurt or johnson gets hurt we are hung. unless someone offers us a absolute proven #3 or their number 1 pitching prospect i say hold on to him.
worst case scenario, you tarde him at the deadline if we are out of the race.
By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)
September 11, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
John mets fan then you are welcome and you will receive at least from me….. nothing but good manners…
I just hate mets fan that talk too much trash, seems its not your case.
Apologize if there are hard feelings.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
September 11, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
DOB
I break this downward trend into two categories.
#1) Pitching. - No surprise Retreads and maybes in the starting rotation don’t get it done. Smoltz is a warrior, but he’s getting older and I don’t believe that until recently that his shoulder was really even 80%.
In my mind the jury is still out on Hudson. Call me crazy but he seems to be breaking down as the season is progressing. I’m wondering if he just doesn’t have the stamina needed to pitch in the south.
I think Chuck James is going to have to figure out an out pitch besides his Change Up because as he got tired his fastball and changeup started looking very similar to hitters.
Hampton is swiss cheese. If they get anything from him it will be a bonus. We need someone in this rotation that changes the look from the starters. They all kind of throw the same. Smoltz - Mid Range Fastball, Slider, Sinker. Hudson - Mid-Range Fastball, Slider, Sinker. Cormier - Low Range Fastball, Slider, 2-8 Curveball.
We need an Oliver Perez type. Someone that can come in and get people out with a little mustard. A little cheese. I know they’re not a dime a dozen but do we have any arm in the minors like that? Don’t say Reyes because he doesn’t throw the Roechford like Perez.
#2) Situational hitting. This team hasn’t been the same since they lost Furcal.
They hardly ever steal. When they try to hit and run they swing and miss because the hitters don’t have a clue how to shorten their swings and put the ball in play. The poster children for this are Andruw Jones, (even though I like him) Kelly Johnson, and Willie Harris (The left fielder that thinks he’s a power hitter. I’m going to call him Willie Hayes from now on).
I think its a given that Andruws gone. And given Willie’s late season tail-off he might not be back either. But I think the player’s they target to replace them have to be faster and better slap hitters. I want to see a Reyes type on this team. One that pressures the opposing defenses. One that will get on base and make the opposing pitcher afraid of you on the paths.
Nobody on this team is someone you would fear as far as running the bases. I know Bobby Cox is the king of station to station baseball but he didn’t use to be. Back when he had Otis and then Furcal he would pressure the defenses with steals and timely hit and runs. Or bunts for hits.
I want that type of team back. Is there anyone in the minors that fits that mold that can play Center or Left Field?
By JLAHATTE
September 11, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
I love this braves blogging and the braves. I am in new orleans and after hurricane Katrina hit, having to live with my in-laws,kids and three dogs in a small apartment for six months, the only thing that saved my sanity was to go outside and listen the the braves on satellite radio..we need a third starter.. i love Hampton but he is not the answer.. we really need a fourth also.I hated to see the Braves throw in Beau Jones at the end of the Tex trade. he is local and i believe the real deal.. sign Andrew to a one year deal so he can move on with bobby at the end of 2008. GO BRAVES..
By David O'Brien
September 11, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Shaun, agreed on Edgar last night — he hit a line drive. Someone must not have been watching the game.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 11, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Hoosier Aaron,
Exactly what aspect of Hudson’s stellar baserunning inspires your confidence that Renteria could have bunted him over to third successfully? The fact that Hudson almost was doubled off on Renteria’s line drive? The fact that Perez picked him off when he strayed too far off the bag (the catalyst for another classic Braves whine, by the way — Hudson takes a 25-foot lead off third and expects professional courtesy from the opposing pitcher in a one-run game)?
If you’re asking a .330 hitter to sacrifice a pitcher over to third in a Chipper-less batting order, his run had better be pretty damned important. And IF the run is that important, pinch-run for your pitcher with someone who actually knows how to run the bases.
Renteria did what he should have done. He hit the ball hard. Unfortunately, he hit the ball hard right at someone. But it’s all on Hudson — not Cox — that a golden scoring chance subsequently went by the boards.
By Joe Schmoe
September 11, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
DOB…
Gotta agree with your assessment here. As much as I kind of quiver when I hear someone say they have an “it” factor, I’m not sure there is any other way to describe this season.
On paper, the Braves may not look as good as the Mets, but definitely as good as some other playoff teams like the Brewers, Diamondbacks, Dodgers, etc. You know, I’m a big Braves fan, a huge homer, and an eternal optimist so I’m not ready to give up yet…but the writing on the wall is getting bigger. It just seems like this year they’ve been unlucky(as evidenced by the W-L record) and it isn’t the year they put it together.
Having said that, I see no reason to not be excited about the talent in place for next year. This doom and gloom stuff is ridiculous and annoying.
Next years lineup(barring any major offseason/spring training injuries or trades) could be even better. I mean, the one player not under contract is the one player having the worst year. If we bring in any of the mid-level CF(Cameron, Rowand, even Bradley, etc.) to replace him, we could be looking at an upgrade based on this years numbers.
Kelly emerged as a very good player after having an entire year off and should only get better. Francoeur took massive steps forward and hopefully will continue to do so. McCann can flat out hit…period. Chipper’s bat doesn’t age, just his body. You have to figure B. Jones will be as effective throughout the year in the LF platoon as Harris has been, but with more pop. Oh yeah, Tex will be here the entire year and there’s the fact that we have 3 major league shortstops to deal with.
I had my doubts about Escobar, but the guy continues to make adjustments. I didn’t think he’d walk enough, but now looks like he could get on base as much as Edgar has, you just have to deal with losing the power. Plus, if you deal Edgar and Yunel falters, you still have Lillibridge. With so few free agent SS’s and so many teams looking for one(Detroit, CWS, Toronto, St. Louis, etc.), Edgar could bring us some pitching. We’re not talking Verlander or Halladay here, just something better than Buddy Carlisle and maybe a bullpen arm.
Seriously, the core of this team is beyond solid and with 2-3 sensible moves you could be looking at a 10 win swing and at the least a Wild Card birth.
What’s the problem?
By Runner
September 11, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Excellent article, Dave. Why can’t we draft and home grow some pitchers of our own? We’re laoded with catchers and infielders but in this year’s draft we only picked one pitcher? At Richmond our top two prospects for the bigs have sore arms. Jo Jo is a call up from double A and Bobby will ruin him if he stays in the bigs next year. Let him go to AAA and get as much confidence as he had at Mississippi then look for him in ‘09. In the meantime there is only trade, rent, or buy pitching from other teams. If anyone can pull a rabbit out of the hat, JS can. But the hat may not have anything in it. If/when AJ goes, and we can’t count of Hampton, and CJ only plays 100 games a year, and Gonzo may or may not make it back…looks like we’ll play a lot of little ball and 3 run homer games and lament again. Ohhh to have the good old days when all we had to worry about was if Sheffield was a “good” person if and we should sign him.
By Vinnie Boombotz
September 11, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
Overlord,
You’re an idiot. Nuf said.
No miracles this year, buddy. Just another stake in the heart of Atlanta. Have fun watching the Mets play on your station during playoff time. Maybe your sad sack team will learn something about heart.
By David O'Brien
September 11, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
By the way, it’s drizzly/rainy here, has been all day. But I think it’s supposed to clear before gametime.
By NO CHOP ZONE
September 11, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
Finally, a blog column that deals with facts and figures rather and IF’S and MAYBE scenarios. I’ve been saying for the last two seasons. Minaya has transforming the organization from the inside out. In the prior 15-20 years we were doing it the other way around and the results speak for themselves. Of course it helps to have the funds to keeps good teams together. Just look at the braves when they were owned by Ted Turner. Sure they had a lot of homegrown talent but it took capital to keep it together and fill in the gaps with quality players. That philosophy brought 14 straight division championships to Atlanta and the Mets hope to get comprable results in the years to come.
By J.D. Phillips
September 11, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
It may be worth considering who won’t be back on this team next year. That will be an improvement within itself. Gone are Woodward, Carlyle, Orr and Miller. Possible goners are Thorman and Harris. And what team have you ever know that keeps the exact same bullpen from year to year. At least 2 of the relievers will be gone.
By wjones
September 11, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, I was just responding to an earlier post about sending Edgar to Toronto, with McDonald being a free agent. McDonald’s defense is much better, apparently, than Edgar’s, and Edgar’s bat is obviously better than McDonald’s. Edgar is 32, certainly not over the hill, but 3B is where good-hitting SS’s go when they can’t do SS anymore. He certainly can’t move to 3b with the Braves. Maybe considering what DonCoburleone just posted about McDonald being a defensive backup, that might be a good situation for Edgar, as well as a fallback for Toronto if something does happen to Glaus. I didn’t conjure up the Toronto scenario, but after reading it, it makes some sense, as Toronto does have some pitching depth.
By David O'Brien
September 11, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
By the way, my late-night fatigue screwup on wording of Chipper injury in Braves notebook, which I just noticed. Bobby said “doubtful” for rest of the series when I asked him, not for rest of season. My bad.
Chipper had said could be couple days, could be a week.
Anyway, I’ll have an update for you in a while. Going to clubhouse now.
By uga-brave
September 11, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this
some guys need to look in the mirror instead of crying to the press about this or that, or about how we cant get a break , or how its not my fault when i get thrown out of a game for arguing balls and stkikes.
some guys need to realize that since they are being counted on to be leaders young or not, you lead by example. some players since they have been full time players for 2 1/2 years have .500 records in the bigs. TALK IS CHEAP.
By NO CHOP ZONE
September 11, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
I meant “comparable” results
By Mr. Giles
September 11, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Enjoy watching me play also. I will make the team pdiddy123 or ppaddy345 or whatever you go by.
By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)
September 11, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
Learn something from the muts?
Maybe we have been doing that lately and that why we have sucked so much lately.
And you are right, no miracles this year… Muts need more of something in order to run their miracle show up again.
Sorry muts, maybe next year, just keep dreaming, im sure the yankees, angels, bosox or indians will wake u up when everything is over.
But 1st you have to show the NL that you are not as mediocre as the rest of them (or us).
Its amazing how can 2 mediocre seasons just above average performances by the muts can boost their fans self esteem.
Ill be glad to watch you AAA team try to wash all the mud they have accumulated over the last 20 years.
Failure is on the horizon!!!
LOL.
By Shaun
September 11, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Hate to say it, but if you are itching to place blame on someone for the Braves season, look to the front office. The Braves are playing about as good as we’d have reasonably expected on paper, as they say.
Here are some pre-season projections based on very rich and detailed forecasting systems:
Hardball Times - 82-80
DiamondMind - 84-78
Baseball Prospectus - 82-80
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/five-questions-atlanta-braves2/
Yep, Braves are right were they should be on paper, contrary to the beliefs of some that they are under-performing based on their talent level. They are, in fact, not.
By True Braves Fan
September 11, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
DOB…Good, accurate blog. In short, this team has too much talent to have this bad a record. I wish I knew what to do about it. (Besides throw a lot of money at the problem, but the Yankees should illustrate that that does not always solve the problem.) Hopefully JS and the brain trust can come up with something over the winter.
By A Jones 25
September 11, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
How did y’all like our lineup last night without me and Chip? Get used to it.
How does Bobby and the Home Boy still have only 4 OFers even after the callups? Little Willie against lefties is a joke.
I told you long ago we packed it in. You fans definetly care about winning a lot more then we do. Win or lose we collect our checks. I think I will buy another luxury car, just because I can.
By jay
September 11, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
OVERLORD? As a Met fan, reading your comments brought joy to my day. First let me say that the only reason I even read this blog is because the majority of you guys are cool. But every now and then you find an “overlord” who spends his days jerking his “tomahawk” painted chicken.
If you think the Braves are some kind of baseball diety, or some elite, historic team then you are wrong.
Simple numbers;
Atlanta Braves 1966-2007 1 World series Ring
New York Mets 1962-2007 2 World series Rings
Did Atlanta celebrate when the 1957 Milwaukee Braves won? NO How about the 1914 Boston Braves? NO
I’m not counting the 1884 New York Metropolitans Championship so you don’t get Boston’s or Milwaukee’s Championships.
The Braves had a hell of a run from 1991-2005. It’s historic DIVISION play. But real teams make their bones in the playoffs. The Mets aren’t there and the Braves, having played 131 years of baseball, have NEVER been there.
“OVERJERK” the Miracle Mets are called that because they are the first EXPANSION team to ever win a Major Sports Championship. Thats NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, the Mets were the FIRST to win a Championship.
The Braves assembled a team that will be regarded as having the greatest starters ever on one team. The best defensive CF in history. One of, if not the best Third Baseman in the history of the National League and perhaps the best Manager/GM combo in sports history.
And what is in your trophy case? One World Series and 14 Division Titles, over what history will show were two teams that were being run as putrid as could be and an EXPANSION team that won MORE World Series Titles than the Braves did in the same time-frame.
I don’t care what any of you say about the Mets. But don’t talk about how the Braves are the “elite” of baseball. BULL.
God gave your team everything and you still found away to p** it down the toilet.
The REAL history of the Braves is that there were GREATS everywhere in this team and it produced nothing truly great at all. The history is that the Braves waisted it’s chances to be a Legendary Team.
Every single one of your great players from this era will have their own EPSN Sports Century episode, where they will struggle to find the answer as to why they only won one World Series.
But they’ll always have those meaningful wins over the Mets to hang their hat on.
PATHETIC.
The Mets are no where in terms of history, but the Braves have a bunch of Hall of Famers who did not surpass the 45 year history of the Mets.
PATHETIC, AGAIN.
That Brave fans actually take solice in beating the Mets during your run is ridiculous. The Mets never posed a threat to you and didn’t produce a single hall of fame player during that time. The REAL elite team, The Yankees, don’t cheer when they beat a team they should beat. The Braves were MUCH better than those Met teams. It was never close. But if thats the feather in the cap that makes your lives full then have at it.
All your Division Titles are “sound and fury, signifying NOTHING”
And the same goes for the Mets if they don’t win World Series rings.
It makes me laugh, the way you beat your chests over my Mets. Because after all this time beating the Mets is still ALL the Braves EVER won.
You ARE the Champions.
By Daybed Wagmoe
September 11, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
9.5 back in the division, 5 back in the wild card…
at this point i’m rooting for a .500 season and hoping that we get some legit starting pitching in the offseason.
By BRAVES FAN
September 11, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this
The muts suck,not only are they not the best team in the NL,they are not even the best team in their division.The muts are barely playing .500 ball against the NL east,they beat up on the central division teams(which is the WORST division in baseball)and struggle to play .500 ball against the rest of the NL teams.I mean damn as much as they have beat up on the braves lately they may not even win the season series against us because if my math is correct the season series after last night is 8 wins for the BRAVOS and 8 wins for the muts.Which brings me back to my point earlier not only are the muts not the best team in the NL they are not the best division in the east.
By Bob, Journalist
September 11, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
Richard Boone’s fast draw may have slowed over the years but his aim seems as steady as ever … as evidenced by his observation that Larry’s perceived penchant for taking time off at the drop of a shoe may have had some basis in fact … since the practice disappeared when a simple, non-existent misunderstanding was quickly and quietly resolved.
Methinks there are some folks who just don’t like to play when they don’t think they can win … just as there are some fans who lose interest in teams they think will lose.
Both Chipper and the Braves should do fine in 2008.
Of course, having Larry, Kelly, and Andruw all unable to play in an extremely crucial, initial tone setting game of an important series was really bad luck.
It still ain’t over …
By MetsFan
September 11, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this
Overlord - Are you aware how pathetic, frightened, and desperate you sound? I honestly wonder sometimes if a) English is your first language, and b) if you are p* drunk most of the time when you write.
By Mad Bomber
September 11, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
There is a bomb set to go off in here in 30 seconds. Meet your maker, infidels!
Note to self: Even if we get a 100% kill-rate we will only get 2 or 3 that know sh!t about baseball. Next time, use gas.
By ChampDawg
September 11, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
I like this team- even Andruw if he will stay for the right kind of money. I like Harris, Esco, Rent, Tex, Frenchy, Brian, Diaz, Chipper, KJ, etc. hopefully be can keep them all becuase the offense is potent enough. Just go get some pitching.
By Larry Jones
September 11, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
ChipDip:
That may have been one of the worst, incoherent ramblings these eyes have ever seen. I’m embarassed for you and your entire lineage. My goodness, you need to go back to school boy
By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)
September 11, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Its good to see how some true can make a muts fan body pump some adrenaline.
Nice.
JAY, what i wrote i wrote because your “pals” come here and type some trash here… so dont take it personal, if you think you come here to talk baseball and not trash, welcome to the blog….. nice to have real baseball fans from other teams, opinions. PEACE….
By MetsFan
September 11, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this
BRAVES FAN Um…the Mets have the highest winning percentage in the National League. That means they are the best team in that league. The Mets have six more wins than the second-place team in the NL East. That means they are the best team in the division. Do you see how that works? The Braves are barely over .500 and will miss the playoffs again. That means they suck. See? Simple.
By Braveheart
September 11, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry. I don’t remember all this cocky arrogance being spewed when you were swept by Philly and Colorado.
BTW, great trade of that Bannister kid. How’s that one working for ya?
Yep, trade a good young pitcher. But you guys are gonna be great for years? With who? Glavine, Duque? Pelfrey? We call Pelfrey Kyle Davies. Oliver Perez? You trusting him beyond this year? Evidently, maybe not even in the postseason. John Maine? He was traded for a mediocre bust like Anna Benson for a reason. Billy Wagner? He’s already talking retirement. When players start talking retirement, you need to cut them loose. Players only talk retirement when their heart is not in it as much anymore. Can’t have your foot halfway in and out the door. YOu’re either in or you are out. Alou is old. Green is old. Milledge is not what you all think he is. Delgado is done. Loduca is a goner. Castillo is in decline.
There is no way the Mets beat the Padres or DBacks in the postseason.
At the end of the day, all the Mets have for the future are two people: Jose Reyes and David Wright. Two players does not a dynasty make.
Sorry to tell you but this year is it. Ya better win, which you won’t.
By Paladin
September 11, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
Mutsfan Do you realize how little we care about how Overlord sounds to you? If he is getting to you enough for you to comment, he is doing a good job. Keep it up, Overlord.
By Overlord (BAND OF BROTHERS)
September 11, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
Im drunk……. im always drunk……
I like this……..its fun to read you mets fan.
pathetic, frightened, and desperate
Wow, did u find out all this by yourself or did sherlock holmes help you?
And if you have problems understanding me, maybe i can send you mails in some other language.
By uga-brave
September 11, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
hate to agree with a mets fan but that post by JAY had a couple of valid points.
my main hatred of the mets came courtesy of one person. there was no one in baseball that i loathed more then BOBBY VALENTINE. got more pleasure in beating him, not the mets. nothing better then watching him twist and cry in the dugout. same thing can be said of BOWA and his stint with the phillies.
there is just something wrong when the manager is the first person out of the dugout after a walkoff win.
By Kentavo
September 11, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
Bring up the kids!!!!!!!!!
By Paladin
September 11, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
Welcome back to the day-shift, BobJ and thank you for the kind word. Best to your lady and I hope she is feeling “chipper”.
By Lew
September 11, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
Jay-You’re absolutely correct. No matter what, we will always have kicking the Mets @$$e$ for years to think about in our dottage. What a pleasant memory it isw, too. Oh yeah-Come back after the first week or so of October and tell us just how wonderful it feels to be taken out by the Padres, the Wild Card team who the Mets have gone 2-4 against this year. Y’all won’t be playing the NL Central-the only division you can do better than break even against. Ha. Let’s hear how great the Mets are then. Maybe y’all should save your energy for teaching Beltran to hit a breaking ball without looking like he wet his pants. He did it again last night against Manny Acosta. Pathetic-like most of the Mets fans.
By MetsFan
September 11, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this
Paladin I get the sense that, every time you post in defense of the Braves, a little bit of pee comes out. And if by “getting to me,” you mean “making me laugh really hard,” then yes—Overlord is getting to me. Go back and read jay’s post—best commentary ever on this board. Even uga-brave knows he’s right. Maybe even someone like you who knows nothing about baseball will understand parts of it. Your bluster is pretty ridiculous for a guy whose team is pitching Buddy Carlyle tonight.
By ncscoots
September 11, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this
TPaul, spot on. A three-way deal just makes moving the guy even more difficult. Though, this winter, that might actually prove easier than a standard fit. Who knows?
My other note is this: many bloggers seem ready and willing to lose a LOT of offense, if only the pitching were better next year. Ne