Braves

By rammerjammer

September 5, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

It is, and always will be, about pitching.

Braves thought they had it, then they lost Hampton.

Thought they had depth, then they lost Cormier.

Thought they had an up-and-comer, then Davies didn’t develop.

Thought they had a stop-gap with Redman, and they didn’t. Ditto Lerew. Ditto Carlyle. Ditto Reyes.

Thought they had a lefty ace reliever, then they lost Gonzalez.

Thought McBride might help, and he didn’t.

As you can see, it hasn’t been for lack of effort, this pitching problem. Some guys underperformed, and others got injured.

We’ve seen some bright spots for the future (Ascaino, Acosta) that might otherwise not been here this year.

But it’s still gonna come down to JS getting at least one more rotation-ready pitcher for 2008.

By Efrim

September 5, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

So much for Hudson and that Cy Young chance. Jeez he has looked bad for about 6 strait starts.

ERA up to 3.53.

We could sure use a front line starter at some point in the next few years.

By Wait til next year

September 5, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s been a good manager but man, he’s stubborn. Think of all the “Willie Harris” moves he’s made in the last 15 years.

By bruce

September 5, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Dave, Would you take Hudson out early so he can go on short rest next time? Thanks, Bruce

By David in Athens, Al

September 5, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

i guess wille harris is the reason the Braves are playing awful …

By StingerSplash

September 5, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Guess the Tim Hudson NL Cy Young Award can go back to the smelter. Eight hits, five runs, a triple, double and homer and one of the outs recorded when the SS Ryan Howard was tagged out at home. Not good. Not good at all. Aside from Chipper’s homer last night and bases-loaded walk, has a team’s big guns, hitters or pitchers, ever come up smaller in such a crucial time as the Braves’ have the last two weeks.

By John

September 5, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Huddy is not looking too good today boys and girls- its unfortunate- he has had a good season so far

By Jim

September 5, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

First?

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

Look out Nats, here we come!

Yowza.

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

And DOB, you’re right. Irrelevant Street is a lousy place to hang out. Here in Denver, they’re juiced of course because the Rox still have a chance to win the Wild Card … and our rotation makes the Rox look like, well, the Braves of the ’90s.

By ssiscribe

September 5, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Just turned on the game and, Holy Cornelia!, the entire applecart has exploded, wheels and all.

DOB, I nearly mentioned the Sunday game in Pittsburgh yesterday when blogging on CR’s blog. Not because that was a game that got away, mind you. It was a heck of a turning point, though. The Bucs bombed Anthony Lerew early and often as the Pennsylvania resident — pitching in front of family and friends five days after a solid start against San Diego — gave up seven hits and five runs in 3.2 innings.

Chuck carried a no-hitter into the seventh inning the night before, giving up one hit in seven innings as the Braves won for the 24th time in 36 games. Then Lerew — who pitched once more against the Red Sox, then was lost for the season with an injury — got lit up by the Bucs.

For me, the seams really came undone in Cincinnati two weeks ago, losing the two games in which the Braves scored seven runs, after the blowout victory to start the road trip. There was time then to go 7-3 on the trip and build momentum coming home. The two losses up there when the Braves scored seven runs were the first time all season I really thought this team was going to miss the playoffs.

The sweep by the Mets finished things, I believe. Last night was dead at the park. My wife told me, with a straight face, she figured the players could hear us yelling from the upper deck. It was that quiet. Even the traffic coming down Capitol Avenue was light right before the game, or lighter than what we’re accustomed to seeing at 7:25 p.m. for a weeknight game.

Alas, nothing to do now but try to climb out of this hole today, and try to win as many as possible between now and Sept. 30. There will be plenty of questions to ask come October and beyond, and the time for asking them is close at hand.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By rammerjammer

September 5, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

DOB,

When you wrote about Harris “…plenty of folks wonder why he’s still playing at all ahead of Diaz…” just WHO are the “plenty of folks?”

Bloggers? Writers? Players? Management?

I’m under the impression Bobby is bulletproof; manager for life, if he chooses. If that’s the case, who has the audacity to question this future HOF’er?

And I’m not being facetious.

I think it’s very interesting, if it’s true, that people IN THE ORGANIZATION are asking if the emperor is wearing his clothes.

By eric the elder

September 5, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

DOB wrote:

The ship’s going down, but Bobby Cox doesn’t show any indication of changing course at this point…

I’m not a Bobby basher, and I know you aren’t either. However, that quote seems to move you closer to some of Bobby’s critics.

This team feels old to me, not in years so much as in demeanor. It has no swagger or energy and didn’t last year either. It takes pitches down the middle and swings wildly at balls. It can’t bunt and can’t make solid contact with the bases loaded and no outs. It can’t pitch, and it can’t seem to focus or concentrate.

At some point, might Bobby look at himself in the mirror and wonder?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

This is starting to have all the signs of a team mailing it in. Hudson pitching like Davies. The offense leaving the bat on their shoulder on close pitches. The strikeouts. It just looks like a real lack of focus ever sense the Mets series started.

Its almost like every regular (except for Escobar and Chipper) are just going up there trying to get their 3 hacks or their groundout and sitting back down.

They made some pretty pedestrian pitchers look pretty good lately. Maine, Lohse? Come on……I will still support this team and take up the cry of wait till next year, but they need to start communicating to these guys that some jobs may be on the line if the effort continues. Of course that may be what they want

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 5, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

O My God , did O’Brien really use the word IRRELEVANT ? I should demand an apology. I’m kidding of course , this isn’t the time to bust his chops. Why the hell is Hudson still in this game ? Yesterday Cox gives Carlyle the quick hook and he is doing the exact opposite with Tim Hudson today. Talk about inconsistency from the manager , it’s just one more problem that has compounded the Braves 2007 season.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

The Phillies have five runs and 10 hits in three innings. 10 hits.

The season can’t end fast enough for erstwhile Cy Young candidate Tim Hudson. This is three rough ones in a row for him, and his ERA will end up over 4.00 at this rate.

By the way, against the Phillies, before today, he was 0-2 with a 5.08 ERA in his past five starts.

By President Bush

September 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Welcome back to earth Mr. Hudson. We have been expecting you.

By BUSHWACKER

September 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Come on, show my message, do you know how long it took me to type that about where would we be if we had Galavine and Maddux as out 3rd and 4th starters this year?

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

The Willie Harris / Andruw Jones saga has been the most puzzling of the year. Bobby’s strengths have always been sticking with guys, but I don’t know what is going wrong here??

Many of the other things Dave points out are dead on. No consistency in any apsect of the game.

A question for you folks: Exactly how are we going to get a decent arm(s) for the rotation if we don’t move somebody significant?

And whoever was talking about trading Hampton, that ain’t gonna happen. He is damaged goods, and if he comes back next year and can be a 4th or 5th guy, why would you move him for nothing?

Also, I see Aybar or Pena being Chipper and Tex’s backups next year. Also, I see Lillibridge being the utility infielder (if he is not tried out in the outfield). If he could do anywhere close to what Escobar has done this year, he would be a huge addition.

Diaz and Brandon Jones in left, and Willie working at the Burger King in Decatur.

Gotta get somebody of significance with Smoltz’ age. As for Hudson, well, look at Johan Santana this year. They almost always go through a rough stretch.

What would a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Rich Hill, and Matt Cain look like. With Hampton, Reyes, Cormier and Boyer being possible 5th starters.

I have mentioned a few times guys like Carlos Silva and Corey Patterson as being possible FA additions. What do you guys think about those two? We only need a centerfielder for about 2-3 years. If Schafer doesn’t do it then, we go after another CF.

Back to my point in the previous blog: Would you trade Francoeur for a top of the line starter (Oswalt type), or a real promising young starter (Matt Cain type)?

By Chip Carey

September 5, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Is anyone out there hiring? AJC? Eh, I’m kind of glad I don’t have to cover the Braves anymore. Not that they’re a bad franchise, it’s that they’re so painful to watch. Toodles.

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Sorry that last post was so long! My bad….

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Coach

I think you just answered you own question. I think if Carlyle hadn’t blown out the bullpen yesterday Hudson would already have been gone but since the bullpen basically pitched almost 8 yesterday I think Hudson’s probably taking one for the team so to speak. Not that this team would care

By BUSHWACKER

September 5, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

The manager has to go when the team wins quits which is what they’ve done.

By TURTSNAP

September 5, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Chipper just grounded out to second, I think it was the umpires fault though!!

By TNRON

September 5, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

DOB,There is just one word to explain why Harris is playing….Donk.I sense the frustration in your words and they reflect the feelings of most Braves fans.There is no reason,except Cox’s hardheadiness,and that permeates throughout the decisions he makes daily as manager.As I have said it only takes marginal success to buy you an eternity of oportunitie with Cox.That said what did Diaz ever do.Does Cox somehow think playing him everyday discredits the pennant race.I defended Cox for years but I can no longer do so.He makes decisions out of emotions for particular players.It seems he develops likes (or dislikes) and that influences his decisions.It really seems the loss of Pat Corales has really hurt.Question,why did he leave? Was there a conflict there?Sadly I dont think the Braves can win next year with Cox and I doubt there will be a change.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Coach, differences between Carlyle and quick hook yesterday and Hudson today? If you need explanation: It’s Buddy Carlyle, a journeyman who’s struggled mightily lately and given up a ton of homers, and Tim Hudson, a 15-game winner with an ERA near 3.00 even after his past two bad starts.

And if that’s not enough, they had Jo-Jo Reyes at the ready yesterday, fully intending to pull Carlyle if he struggled and go with Reyes for several innings.

There’s not one at the ready today. This is Hudson, the guy they considered bringing back on short rest for the rest of the season, along with Smoltz, if the Braves had stayed in this thing.

They’re not going to pull him after giving up five runs in the first two innings, long as he’s healthy.

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

DOB you just got a mention by Chip on the telecast.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Wayne

Francour couldn’t get you that much. Face it he alone wouldn’t get you more than a possible #4 starter and then it would have to be a team that is desperate for outfield defence because Francour for all his talent is also very inconsistent. You would almost have to throw Escobar in with that trade to get a #3 or above guy.

GM’s aren’t stupid. They know how valuable reliable pitching is. That’s why hardly anyone traded value during the trading deadline. I don’t count Lohse and Matt Morris as value

By Chip Carey

September 5, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

No you don’t trade Francoeur. He’s a defensive asset and could play centerfield. He and McCann are going to be the guys when Chipper, Andruw and Tex have all left town. I agree that we need another front of the staff pitcher, but the Cubs won’t trade Rich Hill unless they’re smoking crack and Cain looks like another Kerry Wood to me, remember that…Oswalt would be nice, but the Stros want to head in the right direction by not trading a perennial Cy Young candidate.

SO who else is there? Kyle Lohse sure kicked our a* last night. Is it time to go out and stockpile number 4 starters? It’s worked for the Phillies and Mets.

And the Hampton trade would be nonsensical….damaged goods+nothing-in-return+ paying-most-of-his-salary-for-him-to-win-12 -games-somewhere-else= not going to happen

Your Braves are damanged folks, what else can I say

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

22 more game after today. 10 are against the Mets, Phillies and the Brewers. Gotta play most of the starters for those games, as they have playoff considerations. 12 are against the Nationals, the Fish and the Astros. No playoff considerations there.

If I were the GM, I would drop Woodward and Harris. Play guys like Brandon Jones (yes, bring him up, as we are counting on his next year), Lillibridge (ditto), Pena and Blanco. Get these guys some playing time, and use some of these young arms for those other 12 games (Ascanio, Acosta, Ring, Devine, Paronto, and Boyer).

What say ye?

By boca brave

September 5, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

i have never been a BC basher. he’s been a terrific manager for a long time, but i’m starting to wonder if he has a mental illness of some sort. i’m serious. his player decisions this year have been bizarre.

harris instead of diaz; playing woodward at all; never benching AJ and only moving him down in the lineup after tex arrived; strange relief pitching decisions-almost a determination to lose games by letting people work through problems instead of going with the hot hands; etc.

he may be losing it mentally…

that said, no manager alive could have won with the starting pitching that JS gave him to work with. i only hope that the payroll will allow this team to go after a starter. i fear JS will want to resign AJ, leaving limited funds to pursue pitching. i’m afraid the bloggers who are hoping for something from hampton will be disappointed.

that said, i will watch the rest of the games (well, most of them); i will remain a braves fan; and i will hope for better things next year.

DOB, thanks for the blog, and i hope you’re back next year as well.

By GermanBravesFan

September 5, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Sad, sad, sad… many factors contributed to this season, but I think the bottom line is still payroll. Give the Braves the same money the Mets have available, and there would have been two more solid starting pitchers on the roster (but, who knows, perhaps the Braves would have resigned Marcus Giles and Kelly Johnson would be looking for a job…).

Let’s hope that the new owners will increase payroll to a competitive level that allows the Braves to find another starter or two next year. I think with Texeira, Johnson, Renteria/Escobar, Chipper, Francoeur and McCann there are a lot of good pieces on place. Replacing Andruw will be difficult but not impossible (Rowand?); hopefully, Matt Diaz will be re-signed to play left field full time. Hopefully, Gonzalez will be able to come back after the All Star Break next season and Soriano can take over the closer duties.

I think the future looks good. Yes, Robert, EVEN with Bobby Cox on the bench!

By StingerSplash

September 5, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Too bad the Braves have so many married or well-behaved guys, because maybe they could use the old Mark Grace slumpbuster trick right about now.

By President Bush

September 5, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

I would like to announce that I have offered the job of Attorney General to Bobby Cox. I need someone who can faithfully mismanage the legal system of the United States. In Bobby, I trust.

By Novice Ned

September 5, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Being the novice that I am, I would think that allowing Carlyle to work his way out of jams is a useful exercise for the remainder of the season. Yanking him after 2 innings feels punitive to both Carlyle and the overworked bullpen. (By the way, why isn’t Cox mentioned as a bullpen abuser in the same breath with Torre? Yates and Acosta look wasted). Likewise, why is Huddy allowed to sweat his way thru a horrible start? Let’s stretch out some arms and see what some of these relievers look like in a starting role. Let’s send Smoltz and Huddy out there every 6th game and hold some open auditions now. Where’s our future left handed starter, Ledezma, by the way?

By Anders

September 5, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Wayne My two cents - If you can trade a corner outfielder or a first or third baseman that aren’t outright superstars for a # 1 or 2 pitcher you do it. You can find guys to play those spots. Maybe the next guy won’t have the arm of Franceur but how many guys does Franceur throw out versus a # 1 or 2 starter’s impact? For that same reason you would have to sweeten the pot with another player at least for sure.As for trading catcher, second, short or cf you have to be a little more selective because offense and defense are more important for those guys -IMO.

By dadgum

September 5, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Folks as we continue to debate the relevance of all remaining games within the blogosphere let us remind ourselves that all teams play hard for the integrity of the race. The Braves will continue to battle (tongue in cheek)if not also audition the kingpins of the next big trade.

I feel it is time after this season to look in a new direction for management. Not bashing Cox. Simply now time for a transfusion. Won’t debate the moves made and not made this year. Pointless and time consuming. Do you allow Cox to ride into the sunset after his contract is up in ‘08. I don’t at this point. The Braves will end up closer to the Nats than the Mets. The Nats that were guaranteed to have a successful season if they did’t lose 100 games. This was said by many “experts” in the baseball world. Let’s see what changed that. Could it have been the new manager? See Cox will go down and rightly so as a great manager. HOF manager at that. Nevertheless his time has come. You can tread water with the excuses but they are, like Chipper’s tirade last night, a smoke screen. For the good of the team I hope Bobby steps down after this year. It would be one of the many many changes in store for this team in the near future.

By flange1

September 5, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the new blog.

This team is getting harder and harder to watch even for someone who has missed 4-5 games a year for 30+ years.

It does seem like a lot of the guys are mailing it in. Sad they don’t have enough respect for themselves or the team to do that.

Lew,

Great post on the last blog about the current state of the umpiring profession. You are right their mind set is wrong and you are also right that it does no good for players to complain in public about it.

Why not bring up some kids?

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

I sure would be nice to know who I am talking to, Mr Carey. Let’s stick to our normal monikers please, so we can have an understanding.

With the Cubs strong pitching rotation, do you think they would trade Rich Hill for Chuck James AND Edgar Renteria, if we threw in a AA or A prospect with some upside?

And, what is it about Francoeur that makes you think he would only bring a weak 4th starter????? Dude is a 100 RBI man with a cannon for an arm.

Not that I cherish the thought of trading such a player, but we do need a significant starter. You are right, Kyle Lohse is not going to do it.

Do we take a flier on Matt Clement or Kris Bensen?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Face it people there ain’t much pitching that will be available on the FA market this off-season. So hoping for a golden arm to come in by that route is not likely. When your best hope is maybe prying Glavine from the Mets then I’m sorry but thats a problem.

I think the reality is these scouts are going to have to go out and work and try and find some International prospects or some near MLB ready prospects in other Farm Systems that they can trade for from other teams since our systems prospects are so far out. The problem is to get them we’ll have to give some significant talent in return and frankly that isn’t going to be AA or below prospects. It will have to be players like Escobar or Lillibridge or even both.

I hate to say it but this teams going to have to end up getting lucky (Hampton returning close to old form, Hudson staying healthy, and James finding some new guile) to have a shot a better pitching next year. Because hoping to pry away Glavine to be your #3 might be impossible if the Mets decide to out bid us.

By truckstop

September 5, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Braves are mailing this season in (they are currently down by 5 runs). Its strange. I haven’t seen them do that since the 80’s when you knew midway thru the season they had no chance. BBAAAAADDDD pitching will do that.

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

Could there be any less life in the crowd or the braves today?

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Novice you are: Ledezma was traded to San Diego, my friend.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Where did this season go wrong? Be prepared for a laundry list…

1. 12 losses in games Smoltz has pitched in, despite the fact he’s only had three bad appearances.

2. Andruw Jones’ contributions were muted by his inability to take coaching advice, and thus, kept this team from being more competitive. It meant we had to trade for Mark Teixeira.

3. a .299 opponents’ batting average in their 3rd+ time through the batting order.

4. Counting on anything from Mike Hampton was a huge mistake. He’s icing, not cake.

5. I don’t care what Shaun says… our offense is and has been all along I N C O N S I S T E N T. Trust me, if our opponents got out to a 3+ run lead, you might as well give the regulars the rest of the game off ‘cause they weren’t going to contribute to a comeback, anyhow. That, in and of itself was particularly damning, because going for Teixeira at the trade deadline was supposed to make our potent offense even more able to overcome pitching shortcomings, and yet even with his hot bat, our offense just suffers when we’re down early. There’s no fight in our team when we get down early.

6. Mike freaking Redman. What were they thinking? Really.

7. Injuries to Lance Cormier (having what we’ve gotten from him lately all season would’ve made quite a difference in where we are in the standings, eh?) and Mike Gonzalez were unforseeable setbacks.

8. Bobby Cox needs to get better at using the bullpen arms he has to work with. Love the guy, but he should go with the hot hand and avoid the struggling slingers when it’s obvious to everybody else.

9. We need a better hitting coach and a better pitching coach. If TP can’t make Andruw a better hitter, and make him listen to his advice, then we’re paying him for nothing. If Roger McDowell isn’t the bullpen genius Gagne and Dotel made him look like in LA, then we’re paying him for nothing.

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Gotta luv it. Bobby had Thorman in the on deck circle to pinch-hit for Hudson, in case somebody got on. When the first two were retired, he pulled Thorman back (you know, not to waste him or anything) and hit Orr instead. Like it freaking matters whether you hit Orr, Thorman or Woodcrap in one particular situation or another.

By rammerjammer

September 5, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

I think Escobar, not Renteria, is the most likely player to fetch a starting pitcher. Yuni’s cheap and everyone likes what they see. Too, some teams are going to be spooked that Edgar may be breaking down.

And the pitcher you get will be good, not great. Teams only trade GREAT pitchers if a) they can’t afford him or b) they think he’s peaked.

Braves aren’t in the market for expensive, risky pitchers, seeing what’s happened with Hampton and watching other teams (LA-Schmidt, SF-Zito) suffer similar fates.

I don’t expect other Braves to be traded. Either the players aren’t good enough to get the quality pitching we need, or we don’t have depth at the player’s position.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 5, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

These guys have flat given up. Its a shame! Terrible in fact.

I think its time for change. I’m sorry, but some folks need to go if for no other reason than to change up the chemistry of the team.

Crap like continuing to bat Harris leadoff when he is obviously struggling is what fuels Robert’s and a few others’ obsession with wanting Cox fired. Really! Even Cox’s most ardent supporters have to admit that such a move is asinine at best. So many things can be contributed to this season going down to the toilet like a fresh terd and Cox is one of them. He has made some stupid and hardheaded moves. I don’t give a rat’s left nut how many Manager of the Year Awards he has won. This year he has just made some stupid moves. How in the hell can anyone justify batting Harris leadoff when Escobar is hitting well over .300 and has barley went back to back games without a hit?! I dare somebody to make sense of that. Its just like the reason Chris Woodward is still on this team. Its just like Wickman being kept in the closer’s role three months longer than he should have. And, yes Soriano struggling and all was a way better option. I can guarantee the decision to cut Wickman loose was JS and not Cox’s. I will bet Cox was not on board with that call at all!

I’m not here to bash Cox but lets face the facts as they are. Good managers give their team the best opportunity to win. Can anybody honestly say Cox has done that?

Some players need to be held accoutable as well. Of course, I have to wonder if the struggles with the bases loaded and this constant swinging for the fences is the result of some players stubborness or the result of a certain fellow in the dugout encouraging it.

This team is better than this and it is sad and upsetting to watch them just give up all together. I’m so depressed! These are not my Braves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By The Truth Hurts

September 5, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

I think it’s fairly simple to encapsulate what the 2007 Braves turned out to be: a team whose sum is less than their parts.

As a long-time Braves fan, I can’t remember a Braves team having so many .300 or near .300 hitters in the lineup. But as has been mentioned before, it’s not a particularly clutch lineup. How many late inning rallies have we seen this year? Far fewer than we have seen in previous years, even when the Braves weren’t championship caliber. The Renteria injury hurt more than we thought it would as he was probably the team’s most clutch hitter.

DOB is right. How can Willie Harris still be batting leadoff when he is failing to get on base so miserably? He doesn’t draw walks or steal well. Would it not be common sense to bat KJ leadoff and put Diaz at #2? This is AJ 2007 redux. Cox KILLED this team by batting AJ cleanup for 6 weeks too long. Now, when you need a miracle of miracles to make a run at the playoffs, he bats leadoff a guy who was 0-25 coming into today before an infield single in the 1st (in which he failed to take 2nd as the overthrow rolled all the way behind the plate—are you kidding me?). Cox has been remarkably inconsistent in his managerial decisions this year. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the moves he makes. I think one of his biggest flaws this year was pitching multiple relievers in blowouts rather than letting one guy have a few innings. One game like that screws up the bullpen’s availability for a week.

Yet another business-as-usual year for the Braves. I’m not as socially inept as Robert is…to declare Cox the SOLE reason the Braves are average. Robert is boring and I am not. Yes, there’s only so much a manager can do when a starter goes 3 innings. Ditto a lineup. But it’s beginning to look like this team is establishing a hard-to-break habit of failing in the clutch—in the regular season, as opposed to waiting for the playoffs. There is a resignation borne of what seems like a lack of knowledge about HOW to win. The small things that turn into big things. The swagger.

This is a fairly high payroll team. People keep clamoring for Liberty to loosen the purse strings. But a more important element in winning is gathering the people who when put together become greater than their individual numbers.

Time is of the essence. Chipper and Smoltz get older with each passing day. This needs to be figured out before golfing and hunting become year-round hobbies of the aforementioned.

I miss the passion.

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

I’ll leave when the Braves went on the skids to you experts, but when this blog went on the skids is when Savannah Guy and BobJ went on the DL. We need them back and we can still make the playoffs. jjs, CL and Salty would help, too.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 5, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

If Tom Glavine opts for free agency , I would offer him a 15 million one year deal with no hesitation whatsoever. He is well worth it. If he were to come back to the Braves and Hampton does resurrect his career the Braves would have a great rotation in 2008.

By 22oz

September 5, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

There is not much more to be said about this team. They have hit rock bottom, and the manager is not making any adjustments to change anything. The lineup remains unchanged, so they will continue at this pace. Smoltz and Hudson have worn down from the pressure. Lance Cormier is encouraging, hopefully he will be around next year. Bunts cannot be executed. Until there is a change in strategy, or management, this team is going nowhere.

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Anders Agreed on your last post about who can be more easily replaced. When you look at our roster, then the only 2 guys logically who can easily be replaced are one of our two shortstops, and our right fielder.

On that same point, letting AJ go is a calculated risk. BUT with his showing this year, you can’t keep him and go after a pitcher, I don’t think.

Where is Shaun today? I need some info on Corey Patterson as a defensive center fielder.

The broadcast team was just talking about bringing back Glavine and Mad Dog. Who knows, it might work?? But, I don’t think Greg is leaving the west coast at this point in his career.

By MurphyRules

September 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

I submit to you, the worst bench in the history of baseball: Corky Miller, Julio Franco, Pete Orr, Scott Thorman and Chris Woodward.

If any of those guys return in 2008, I quit.

By GeorgiaJon

September 5, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

DOB I dont know all the exact numbers, but it seems as though all the pitchers we have brought up/ traded for, have not had turn around seasons and or sustained success such as they did with Leo at the reins. Since his friend at Baltimore was fired do you think there is any chance he could come back to ATL? This is not to say that McDowell has not been a good pitching coach but merely speculation that whatever magical chemistry that Bobby and Leo had has been lost and in turn the pitching has clearly struggled. It would be great to see him back in ATL. Just looking for an insiders view on that possibilty

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Wayne

To merit a #1 or #2 you better have all the tools. Arm, Hit for Power, Hit for Average, Speed, and Defense. I just don’t see Francour having the Hit for Average and Speed aspects of it.

Also he seems to lose focus at times. Not sure why he does this but if I’m a GM I would consider that in any trade for him.

Will he get beter I think so. But he reminds me a lot of players like Ty Willingham or Jason Bay. Good…occasionally great performances but not consistently great. And to get top teir pitching you better be ready to trade a great player.

By Rodger

September 5, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

ijonathan

Surely your use of the term “hit” was tongue in cheek.

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Ron R a point about your 5th point. If you remember, when things were going well in the first month, we WERE coming back in games. Maybe that run gave us a false sense of security about our ability to come back offensively???

By ryan bauer

September 5, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

DOB- MUSIC QUESTION- I’m a big Wilco fan is checking out Uncle Tupelo worth my time, if so where should I start. Thanks in advance. rock chalk ryan

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Can ANYBODY answer this question - when has Tex had a meaningful hit as a Brave? Everybody loves him & he fits right in with a line-up of choke hitters. This fearsome line-up is under pressure to score runs & choking again today. Chipper & possibly McCann are the ONLY occasional clutch hitters. The rest including Tex simply choke. Why do the Braves play the 8th and 9th innings when they are behind?
It’s a microcosm of all the great division winning seasons when the Braves would coast into the playoffs then choke when the pressure was on. Could only beat a bigger choker team/city in Cleveland or they’d have no championships!

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

The way it looks right now, Cormier is auditioning for the #3 starter in 2008 — if Hampton’s not ready to go in April.

Meantime, Chucky has to develop a third pitch or he’s going to be out of the league in a year or two. Seriously. He fools no one the second and third time through the order. Unless he finds one over the winter, he’s a #4 guy … tops.

And I’d be shocked if Edgar and Yunel are both in camp in February. Edgar offers experience and value; Escobar has a huge upside. Edgar probably gets more in a trade, but you never know …

As for Wayne’s suggestion about getting Corey Patterson — no, no, a thousand times no! Career OBP is .298. Another strikeout machine. I’d rather see Cory Sullivan (who may be nontendered by the Rockies) at least because he would be cheap and you’d know what you were getting — a decent glove guy who can hit a little. And he’s cheap. Decent fourth outfielder if one of the kids comes through. And he’s cheap. Did I mention that?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Wow Willie Harris just homered. He’s on fire. That Bobby Cox is a managing genius to keep playing him…..snort

By WILLIE HARRIS

September 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Now maybe you guys will shut up about me batting leadoff!!

By 22oz

September 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Just heard the GA Power radio commercial with Skip’s call of the Sid Bream Slide: “And the bases are full of Braves…”

The difference between then and now: Francisco Cabrera pops up, game over.

By BravesDave

September 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Reading the blog lately has become so frustrating. People that point out various Bobby Cox shortcomings - like the fact that Willie Harris should be sitting on the bench next to Chris Woodward, that Kelly Johnson should have NEVER been moved out of the leadoff spot - are shouted down. Then, weeks later, DOB posts a blog with the same statistically backed-up assertions. People that have been talking about the horrible downturn in this team’s fortunes since the 24-12 start have been termed “negative”. Meanwhile, surprise of surprises, here is a blog stating the same.

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

BTW, I’m assuming that Diaz will become the everyday LF next year; that way a Sullivan-type could be the 8th place hitter in a pretty impressive lineup.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

DO’B made mention of Cox’s “stay the course no matter the result” tendencies, and while I’m sure it’s heartwarming in the clubhouse, I have to find fault with that about him, as well.

He was too loyal to an Andruw Jones that looked awful most of this season and refused to adhere to coachign.

He was too loyal to Rafael Soriano when Raffy hit the skids. Bringing him in in situations where a homer could kill a lead or momentum happened too frequently then.

He’s been too loyal with Willie Harris in this recent skid of his. Let me understand this…Diaz plays one game when Harris normally would, goes 0 for 3, and you pull the plug on that “experiment;” if Harris went 0 for 3 in the same circumstance, (and he’s done that and worse for a long while now), Bobby wouldn’t give up on him after just a game. I’m lost on that.

And I don’t know what Oscar Villareal’s done to warrant being ignored throughout the season while we were flailing for something to work at the back of our rotation.

Don’t get me wrong; I think Bobby’s great about not making panic moves. But I think Bobby’s poor at making timely moves, too. That has shown true this season.

He didn’t count on Pete Moylan when Soriano struggled. He didn’t count on Soriano when Wickman struggled. He didn’t count on Villareal when Redman and Kyle Davies struggled. He didn’t bury Andruw in the lineup when Andruw was slaughtering rallies.

There were plenty of injuries to manage around, sure; but they were all overcome-able, and we didn’t overcome any of ‘em, save for Yunel filling in admirably when Renteria went down.

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

TrueBlue Jason Bay is a close comparison, but Ty Willingham? No way.

I think Francoeur is a 4 tool guy, without the speed. But he is also not slow. He runs the bases well.

How many true 5 tool players are there?? Willie Mays has retired, and Barry Bonds got old and pumped. Even A-Rod doesn’t have the true speed aspect.

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

What do you want to bet that Bobby tells us after the game, “Huddy was making good pitches…”?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Chipper and Tex on 2nd and 1st on and Nobody out…..I’ll lay odds that we don’t score any runs with this scenario

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Wayne, the Braves did get timely hitting early in the season, but never had to overcome big early leads, then. The only big, early leads I can recall the Braves coming back from were…

April 22 against the Mets in Shea, when we trailed the Mets 6-3 after the 6th (not really an early lead, but a strong comeback, anyhow) and…

June 9th when trailed the Cubs 4-0 at home after the first half-inning, and stormed back against Jason Marquis and won 9-5.

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts,

Amen on 3:12 post.

Bobby failed to make a decisive move on too many occasions this year. Of course, this season there seem to have been many more times he needed to make a decisive move than in seasons past.

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Comments on Bobby Cox? How does he always manage to be picking his nose everytime the camera zooms in on him? Give the booger picking a rest and teach your team how to bunt runners over rather than waiting for homerun swinging strike-outs & infield pop-ups!

By CAL

September 5, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

For me, it was back in July when the Braves were swept at home by the last place Reds. If you can’t beat the Reds, how are you going to beat the Mets?

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Willie found a way to get on without having to steal 1B.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Wayne

Don’t get me wrong…..I like Francour…..I really do….I just don’t think he’d bring back a #1 or a #2 pitcher. Not by himself. And I can’t agree that he’s 4 tool. Not yet. He has to show more consistency at the plate to merit the hit for average. Plus with Andruw gone I don’t think the Braves should be too quick to let their outfield defence go.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

There’s your microcosm of the season. Braves on base, two out, Andruw up. K

By rammerjammer

September 5, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Paladin,

Man, the truth hurts. But you are so right.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Man am I psychic…..Mccann flied out, Francour popped out and Andruw struck out…..Deja Vu all over again

By Turtsnap

September 5, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

TrueBlue, while you were correct on your call, it would have netted you next to nothing in Vegas!! :O)

By 22oz

September 5, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Poor Diaz. That homer by Willie cements his status for the rest of the year, if it wasn’t already.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 5, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

When does Andruw’s flailing and missing with runners on base become enough is enough. Is his defense really so great that its worth keeping his “swing and miss everything” bat in the lineup consistiently. Does his defense really save more runs than his bat leaves on base? I doubt it.

By Turtsnap

September 5, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

OK, Oscar, we scored 2 this inning, now go out there and give up 2 runs!!

By rammerjammer

September 5, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Calling Dr. Kevorkian…

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Wayne i never said we would have 2 SS. I said yunel could play some 100 games playing almost everyday if he is used at 3b, ss and 2b. Thats a very good idea. You would always have a top player on the bench without affecting the lineup, you give yunel a year to mature a little more, you keep renterias magic one more year.

Of course if we can get oswalt or someone of his caliber exchanging renteria, you go ahead, but if it is only for something less than that i dont see why do it, we have clearly struggled even more with edgars absence. Yunel has good numbers, but edgars presence goes beyond that. Plus we need leadership in this team. BRAVES HAVE NO CHARACTER and you think it will be a good idea to let one of our 3 leaders go? (chipper, smoltz, renteria). Bad call. Only if a pitcher with character and capable of being a leader here, i would agree on letting renteria go.

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

WTF????

We finally score two runs to get back in this game, somewhat, and Oscar freaking Villareal makes an appearance???

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Turtsnap

I agree - however, seriously don’t think the Phillys need anymore runs.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

I’ll leave when the Braves went on the skids to you experts, but when this blog went on the skids is when Savannah Guy and BobJ went on the DL. We need them back and we can still make the playoffs. jjs, CL and Salty would help, too.

Chrisklob and MBATL need to show up again as well. Wayne is back today but needs to stay. Don’t be a quitter Wayne. You used to be the closer. Then Carrol cited you, you won a Wurlitzer, your head got big and you walked away. You said you were like Wickman as the closer of the blog. Looks like that was true. Complained about the state of things, essentially refused to go in the game when you refused to blog anymore. Love ya man but disappointed in you Wayne.

My boy Eric the Elder is back today but I miss him being around more too. Gil from Mechanicsville has disappeared. Matthew, Walter’s Daddy has been gone for months. Arkansas Hillbilly ain’t raising hell as much. My boy Thrillhouse44 needs to keep being our steady, understated Edgar Renteria and not fade away from the blog. The list is much longer. Sorry if I did not mention some of ya. But don’t make it force you to run away since it seems too many keep running away because your egos get bruised.

On the first day of spring training when all of last season’s regulars reappeared, BobJ or someone said we need to remember we have a World Series to blog our way to. Too many of you have forgotten that. With Bullit and The Fly, it is understandable.

The rest of you, I am not so sure. Come on, folks. Prioritize. Braves before family, friends, and work. Remember that. :-)

I believe one rule of the RROE is being broken: Too many of the Esteemed are being egomaniacal prima donna drama queens and need to get back to blogging.

With increased popularity of the blog, will come many others who are not as respectful. You can’t let them run you off. That’s disappointing. It’s like when you get rich and famous, all of a sudden you have a bunch of extended family members you have never heard from and don’t like and who are sometimes bad news who want to be your best friends and part of your nuclear family. If you were a rich, famous athlete would you stop being a rich, famous athlete or would you just learn to ignore all the hangers on and wannabes? Some of you need to learn that.

Too many trade demands and contract holdouts from our star bloggers going on here. Ladies and gentlemen, strap back on that leotard and cowboy the hell up. You have let down the team and the blog and your skipper. Can’t be having the captains of the team quit.

Keep up the quitting and you had better be careful. Chief Bromden is lurking, think you are acting like a bunch of lobotomized vegetables. You won’t like what he is gonna do with that pillow in his hands.

Alright. Time to go get a life. Love the Braves but the Braves suck right now. Continuing to start Willie Harris, homer or not, is a fireable offense.

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

BravesDave How are you! BTW, who was shouting down bloggers a few weeks ago for questioning Willie Harris being in the lineup and KJ not being at the leadoff spot?

About a month ago, I was posting the Willie Harris countdown to mediocrity. While I have always been a BC supporter, he does leave me scratching my head this summer.

You know my story, I just don’t like it when guys get too up or too down, and then start making it personal attacks. (Robert, ijon, etc)

McCann needs to work on getting behind the ball in the dirt, not trying to backhand them.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Too bad it’s a day game; nobody gets to say “turn out the lights.”

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Turtsnap,

So much for the optimism. We’ve underestimated this team’s will to lose! 3 runs and counting …

By Casey Stengel

September 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Can’t anyone here play this game?

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Wow, did I just see Diaz go into left, Harris to CF and Andruw out?

There’s your answer folks, the only way Andruw sits is if he makes the last out of the previous inning and enough synapses fire in Bobby’s head to prod him to a double-switch.

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

CAL accurate post.

Is there any other player in this team that plays as hard as francouer?

yes there are some, but ill tell you a little secret. He goes out there and plays baseball with heart, rare specie in atlanta, as just love how he hustles for every ball he to RF.

The only thing keeping him to be as good as chipper is hacking at everything that comes toward him, im surprised when he is in RF and a ball is hit toward him and he catches it instead of hacking it. But im sure he will improve that situation.

He is a franchise player, it would be a mistake of SMOLTZ proportions (tigers deal) if we let him go.

By Lew

September 5, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

BravesDave-Dude-I’m going to tell you why you (and others) got ragged on for negativity. It wasn’t because some of what you were saying had no merit-it did. What drove everyone insane with the doom and gloomers was the constant barrage of Braves Suck, Braves suck, Braves suck we kept hearing from y’all. It almost sounded like the Skip Sid Slid blurb. The only difference was that y’all started ranting after the Braves had played half the season-and it kept up night after night, day after day, while most of us kept our spirits and hopes up til the Mets swept us last weekend. Dude, that’s a huge difference.

Now Nathan ranted about Andruw’s performance. Well, Duh. We ALL were aware of his offensive inadequacies this season. We’re hardly blind to his and other’s faults. But Nathan ranted 15 times a night, seven days a week, for months on end and that is what becomes tedious-we hardly need anyone to bludgeon us to death with the same information 100-200 times per week per Negative Nellie. You don’t need to beat us in the head with a leaded bat.

No, Dude, we encourage you to speak your mind, but maybe you need to wait before you rant. I mean, what do you and Coach (among others) want? Do y’all expect a Wurlitzer for pointing out the obvious, or maybe an award for the earliest bail out on your team? Come on. Get real about it all. You’re reacting to people hoping upon hope that a team that has the potential to win big, might realize that potential. Don’t expect us to be thrilled just because you give up hope much sooner than we do. Besides, the Braves DON’T suck. They are average and nothing worse. Many of us hoped it wouldn’t be this bad. So we were wrong. Sue us.

By Chop Chop

September 5, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts,

If you mention Oscar not being in the rotation one more time, I’m gonna punch you in the nuts.

(I’m only sorta kidding about that.)

By 22oz

September 5, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Once, just once, i would like to see a double switch that takes Francoeur out of the game, just to see what its like to not see the untouchable golden child on the field. We know he’s gonna break Ripken’s Ironman record, but does he have to play every inning?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Turtsnap…I see you have aquired my psychic prowess…..Except he gave up 3 not 2.

Man I feel like I’m watching the Cleveland Indians in the move Major League…..Where’s Bob Uecker to call the balls and strikes.

Take over Marty I’m in the Bag….

By Rutuger

September 5, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

The Chis Reitsmas, Oscar Villareals, Bob Wickmans, Dan Kolbs, and various other ragtag third-rate/washed-up/never-were arms we’ve stocked our bullpen with over the past few years have cost us 20-30 wins/season.

Add to that the fact that we haven’t had more than two decent starting pitchers at any given time since ‘03, and you’ve lost each season before it starts.

Even JS will be forced to realize that the next couple of years will be “rebuilding” years. It’s gonna get much worse before it gets better, but in the end it’s for the best.

By TennesseePaul

September 5, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Sheeeesh. Between Harris suckin’ wind and Andruw slashing at the air the park has to have a crazy vortex wind funnel thing going on. Glad to see Harris got some hits today. But I pulled this thing up right when the scoring started only to watch Andruw go down on strikes against, I don’t know, some guy with a 5.40 ERA.

I love this team. I’m a Braves fan… It just seems this team was on top for so long they forgot how to get there.
Chipper’s rant last night was ridiculous. He may have been right that the calls were bad, but c’mon. That doesn’t explain the whole season. The umps aren’t out to get the Braves.

Other than that, I disagree DOB. I say the burdon on this team is the perpetual stench of Mark Redman. When the season’s done they need to call in the fumigator, maybe gut the whole club house and rebuild it from the ground up. That guy is still screwing up my Braves calendar. He and Woodward. Next year already seems brighter… maybe better pitching. No Woodward. Hopefully better pitching. A bench with Willie Aybar instead of Chris Woodward. And possibly better pitching.

GO BRAVES

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Gotta run, but it’s been fun. Later!

By Turtsnap

September 5, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

TN Jeff, yep, I was about to say, Oscar gave up a bonus run. Agreement with Wayne, McCann does not block the ball well at all.

I always said, when the run of pennants was over, I just hope the Braves wouldn’t tank and go back to the pre ’90s style. While they haven’t done that, this year (and last) has been even more futile than those dismal years. I am so sick of “The Whiff” and not just from Andruw. This team can not play ABC baseball, never has been able to.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop… my timing sucked with regards to the Villareal suggestion, didn’t it?

But, while we struggled at the back-end of the rotation early in the season, OV was pitching quite well (although being wasted in mo-up duties after the starter’d been blown out).

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

I think Willie “Pops-up” Harris HR today is good for another 50 pop-ups the rest of the season. He’s got long ball fever.

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

The bottomline in sports throughout history whether its Baseball,Basketball,or Football (all team sports) once the team is in decline (lots of losing) then the head coach gets the boot. Its happened to all-time coaching and managing greats like Sparky Anderson,Joe Torre,Phil Jackson,Chuck Knoll,Tom Landry,etc. It happened with Bobby Cox in the past (70’s with the Braves and 80’s with the Bluejays). But it seems like (as one blogger stated) he has immunity to being fired now by the Braves. I won’t relist all the post season mismanagement again for brevity’s sake. Its just like Florida State with Bobby Bowden. Cox and Bowden both need to retire. Give someone else a chance to manage and coach these teams. You’ve had your day in the sun and limelight… Glenn Huddard for manager in 2008. this team plays with no intensity except Chipper and Smoltz. Its ho-hum for all these guys. So what if I (hitter) just hit into a DP. So what if I (pitcher) just gave up a 3 run homerun. They look the same when they lose as they do when they win. They should be excited when they win and angry when they lose. I see only the “deer in the headlights” look on all but two of them. Eyes glazed over staring into space… This team needs a new leader.

By David O'Brien

September 5, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

BravesDave, then don’t read the blog. Go elsewhere if you don’t like it. Who are you complaining to, talking about the blog being so frustrating and all? Me? Because I don’t want to hear your whiny compaints.

I, too, wrote weeks ago that Harris shouldn’t be hitting leadoff, and I’ve also written that Diaz should be playing every day. What, can’t reiterate that today in a season-review blog? There’s a statute of limitations?

You want us to send you a little gold star saying you said it “months ago”? Just like the folks who said two months ago the Braves were done — you want us to give you little plus-marks by your name when you post now, to acknowledge you bailed first and your assertations came true? We will, if it’ll make you feel all good and warm.

Better yet, have someone who loves you pat you on your heads and give you a popsicle.

By GW

September 5, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

What went wrong is the front office decision to get a hitter when pitching was so desperately needed. I can’t blame the team if the quit. I’m sure they’re tired of falling behind in the top of the first inning and expected to make some heroic comeback. No playoff for the Bravos. Get some pitching if you haven’t given all your young arms away for Tex.

By rocky stone

September 5, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

bobby is in danger of losing his siding doctor endorsement. leaves something gooey on the siding whenever he handles it.

twice now bobby has gone to the siding doctor to have his prostate checked.

too much downside having bobby as spokesperson. “c’mon kid, hang that siding.”

maybe bobby is checking his own prostate when he picks his nose. going in from the top, so to speak. something to think about.

and dob is back on the blog today after a few days of r&r with the new girlfriend. it is good to have him back though carroll has performed admirably since getting some nc barbecue.

and about these photos of grinch …

and whither that clever journalist who used to blog here? and that nice jackass boy?

and has stinky killed the blog yet? and where will terry pendleton hang the leotard next season? ineffective and toothless in atlanta. blame bobby.

and can’t someone teach chucky a new pitch? and why can no one bunt?

and, chipper is right about one thing - abysmal covers a lot of this season’s sins. chipper can say it - think chipper can spell it? nah.

“uh, ump, i think you may have missed that one. that was a bismol.”

“no, dummy, that was a called third strike.”

and carroll, any luck on that mouth breather research?

and who are some famous bismols? pepto comes to mind. temporary darkening of the stool. wonder if it works on the bench? and must one be smart to experience the darkened stool? mount it and charge $70 to autograph it (with a sharpie). throw that sharpie away. never shake hands with bobby cox.

oh, the perplexity!

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

I keep flashing back to that postgame press conference where Charlie Manuel’s being derided by some bonehead sports radio blow-hard when the Phillies started 1-a buncha losses. LOL. Can’t help but wonder if that guy’s done a mia culpa on the air. Manuel deserves credit for managing a team with very little pitching and an early-season struggle from Ryan Howard and injuries from Chase Utley and Cole Hamels to within reach of the playoffs.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, finally followed up on your Sage Francis rec. Damn good rec, man. Really good stuff. Good looking out. He’s what Eminem should have evolved into once that Slim Shady gimmick got played out. But I guess, unlike Sage, Em does not have much to say about the world when he stops attacking other performers and the women in his life. Em needs to listen to one of Sage’s lyrics: there can be no revolution without evolution. What Sage is doing is what Everlast tried to evolve into but Everlast is far too literal as a lyricist whereas Sage is more layered and has more complexity and ambiguity as a lyricist, making him much better than Everlast. But Sage’s sound and delivery style reminds me of Everlast alot. But it’s really good stuff. A real eclectic mix, bouncing around from all different styles. On a few of those, he kind of sounds like DMX as well. But I love that he keeps it real and does not sell out, seeking mass appeal. Thanks, man. Can’t stop listening to it the last few days.

As for the Braves, to steal from one of Sage’s more wicked lyrics, the Braves are doing the Schiavo. Some of the bloggers are as well.

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Chipper has so much pride and is such a fighter, i cant believe how this guy is not here to give up……

I insist……. he is the best ever for the braves.

Day in and day out just shows everyone how good he is.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 5, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Well, kids, its time to admit an era has come to an end. Its time to blow this team up and start over. Its time to give the kids a chance to play. At least the kids will play with heart and desire. Its time to get some fresh blood in here and get the “business like” approach out. It doesn’t work anymore. That is obvious.

This team has plenty of building blocks. As far as I’m concerned Kelly Johnson, Francoeur, McCann, Escobar, and Reyes all stay. They are for sure fixtures. Tex as well for next year and the Braves should do their best to re-sign him.

Andruw needs to be let go. While his defense is superb, no way in hell is it worth giving him $16 or $17 mil a year to go up and strikeout in almost every pertinent run scoring opportunity. His flailing behind can go somewhere else. I love Andruw but this team can bring in cheaper players to hit .220, never hit in the clutch, and play good defense in center. I’m sorry. Its the truth.

Chipper is my favorite Brave but it might be time for him to move on. The Braves can definitely get a king’s ransom for him. Teams like the Angels, White Sox, Blue Jays, Yankees, Red Sox, and Orioles would want him and have pieces the Braves would need.

I think it would be unfair to trade Smoltz since he just signed the deal but if he wanted to leave with the team chaning the guard then by all means he should go. No doubt the Braves would get a good offer for him.

Hudson could be moved to a contender for some younger pitching help. I could see the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Padres, D-Backs, Giants, and Orioles all wanting Hudson. The Blue Jays would want him as well even though they don’t have the pitching to offer. But, they do have Alex Rios.

Guys like Diaz and Renteria can be moved as well. Brandon Jones can be handed the LF job and possibly CF can go to Jordan Schaefer. Lillibridge can take over at SS with Escobar moving over to 3B.

By uga-brave

September 5, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

LEW,

i remember sons of italy, and steverinos but cant place the particular sub shop you were talking about. im guessing it must of been right next to hodgsons drugstore or across the street, from the downtowner.

however i do remeber yudy’s. spent one winter quarter on the MAYFLOWER meal plan.

By Braveheart

September 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Things have gotten so bad, Mark Lemke is now doing the games on radio. Now, that’s quitting. Lemke has actually become much better on the radio than he used to be.

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

The problem is that we fans can see what’s wrong all season but Cox can’t or either won’t do anything about it. There’s your biggest problem with the Braves. Andruw should have been replaced by Willie Harris early in the year when he was hitting .400 BA to Andruw’s .150 BA. You say you can’t sit a guy making $15 million but there’s a guy named M.Hampton making $9 million sitting injured. This ain’t high school football where you play the coach’s and mayor’s son (Andruw) even though they suck. You play whomever gets the job done the best with salaries aside…

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

rocky stone,

Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, but it expressed a courage that is little seen in this day and age.

By rammerjammer

September 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

DOB, I just think our guys are beat up and whipped. Maybe the fans are too. Shoot, maybe you are.

The whole season has been a gut check, ever since Hampton came up lame - again - in spring training.

And when Gonzalez went down, it was like, oh man, here we go again.

And we waited, what, five months for Andruw to hit like Andruw’s always hit. But he never did.

Can’t catch a break.

One of the guys said it seemed like whatever luck we enjoyed for 14 years has turned the other way. I say Amen to that. The good vibes have definitely left the building.

By Mellon Collie

September 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Braves suck! I called it first!

By Elmer

September 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

These guys—McCann, Francoeur, A. Jones look exhausted.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

You know this team does look an awful lot like the Cleveland Indians in Major League.

Bobby Cox - Lew the Manager - Maybe Bobbys about to keel over too.

Chipper Jones - Roger Dorn….kink of looks like him anyway

Willie Harris - Willie Mays Hayes - except Willies not as fast but he also thinks he’s a power hitter.

Andruw Jones - Pedor Ceranto - Neither can hit a good curve ball.

Mark Texeira - Jack Parkman - Both were hired guns and neither seemed to care if they won or not.

Tim Hudson - Shoop - Don’t remember his first name but they’re both Junk Baller starters.

Alfonso Soriano - Rick Wild Thing Vaugn…..both blew a lot a late leads.

Brain McCann - Rube Walker….both have an aq shucks about em.

Jeff Francour - Takihito (Don’t remember his last name). Both of em swung at anything.

By Infinite Sadness

September 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

No, Mellon Collie. I believe I called it first. But we agree. The Braves do suck!

By ElbravoX-- EbX

September 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

OMG,when will this stop!

Robert (jib)for the millionth time, Chipper has a no trade clause.

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

agree that we need to win 90 to make the WC.

Since we lost today theres only room for 3 more loses.

If they lose today…….i think we are talking 2 more loses and gone…..

hehehe…….. talk about pressure.

By Lew

September 5, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

UGA Brave-The mural would have been hard to miss. I ate many a Sons of Italy House special, though. We had one the night my son was born at St. Mary’s, as a matter of fact. Yudy’s was owned by the brother of the guy I painted the sub-shop mural for. Nothing was as great as having the Varsity across from the arch. It was a time of mourning when it moved up the road.

By Raymond

September 5, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

the trade for Gonzalez started the trouble. where are Belisle, Wainright, Miner and Marquis when you need them ? we have nothing to show for those 4 guys who are better than our #3-#5 guys now

By Mellon Collie

September 5, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Maybe you are right, Infinite Sadness. Maybe you said it first. Doesn’t matter we called it before everyone else. We are so much smarter than everyone. We bail out faster than the rest of them.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of hearing people whine about the Braves getting Mark Teixeira instead of pitching - like there were tangible options to acquire starting pitching via the trade wires.

Folks, we filled the offensive hole Andruw Jones (has and) will leave when he’s gone via free agency after this season by acquiring Teixeira. Even if that acquisitoin didn’t immediately help this team reach the playoffs, it assuredly puts us in a better position for 2008 than we’d have been without acquiring Tex.

Secondly, who was available that would’ve been worth trading Saltalamacchia anyhow? Careful when you answer that… NOTE: I said worth trading Saltalamacchia for. There was no pitching option out there at the trade deadline that would’ve been worth shipping of Jarrod for a half-season rental arm.

On top of that, the Braves (I’m gonna guess here…) knew they had the potential for a decent return out of Lance Cormier (which has come to fruition), and didn’t expect declines out of Chuck James and Buddy Carlyle so rapidly after the deadline.

Let’s be honest with ourselves… if Buddy Carlyle and Chuck James don’t fall apart these last few weeks, and if Hudson hadn’t hit a snag here of late, we’re in this thing. Those “ifs” aren’t reaches, either.

So going into the offseason the Braves are in a position to acquire a good starting pitcher to add to the Smoltz/Hudson/James/Cormier/Hampton options. Whether that be via a trade of a wanted commodity like Renteria or just with the cash Andruw leaves us with.

Say they do that, and tinker with the bullpen a bit. They’ll be among the elite teams in the NL, again. It’s not that much of reach to presume that. With Soriano, Yates, Devine, Asciano, Moylan, Mahay and Acosta, there’s plenty reason to believe the bullpen pieces are already there even before Gonzalez returns.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Wow the Braves are trying to mount a comeback……shocking 8 - 6 bases loaded still only 1 out.

By Tweety

September 5, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

I love popthicles.

I would altho like a gold thtar by my name. Pleathe.

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

talk about spoilers

By StingerSplash

September 5, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Wait. What’s this? Is this … is this a pulse? Cue Jim Ross from the WWE — “Oh my God, that’s Bobby Cox’s music! Where the hell did he come from?”

By ChampDawg

September 5, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

REASONS THE BRAVES ARE A .500 TEAM

• Smoltz and Hudson can’t carry the load the entire season. Their more lackluster performances of late was bound to happen.

• 3-4-5 in the rotation sucks.

• Bobby is just too hard-headed. Too many examples to mention. Leaving Andruw and 4th in the lineup for way to long, refusing to play small ball when the game required manufacturing runs, and now leaving Willie at leadoff despite his struggles are just a few examples that come to mind.

• Andruw barely hitting his weight.

• Injuries to Renteria, Gonzales, Hampton.

• Failed experiment at 1B with Thorman.

• Weak bench… Orr, etc.

• McCann- off year defensively with the mitt and the arm.

• Failure to win against the weaker teams in the schedule when they had a chance to make up ground in the standings.

By Infinite Sadness

September 5, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

You’re so pragmatic, Mellon Collie.

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Chipper and Smoltz don’t deserve to with a bunch of losers like this. I’ll admit Hudson,Francoeur,McCann,K.Johnson,Renteria,Diaz,Texeira,and Escobar have played well too. I think not playing W.Harris hurt his psyche and he lost his swing. You can trade the rest of them (besides the ones listed above) however you want (7 for 1) for Albert Pujols and Brandon Webb and bring up the rookies from Richmond. They can’t play any worse.

By Mellon Collie

September 5, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

You’re so darn pragmatic too Infinite Sadness. We are so much more pragmatic than the rest of them.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

September 5, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Man I’m looking at mlb.com….that called strike of Chippers was a foot outside…..let the grousing begin

By Infinite Sadness

September 5, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Mellon Collie, did I ever tell you that I hate Frenchy?

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Opposing teams best bet to stop a Braves rally? Load the bases, preferably with none or one out. Guaranteed to bring it to a grinding halt. KJ = anticlutch.

By Stuart

September 5, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

As usual, they take bad ABs in the clutch. KJ swinging at a 2-0 pitch after Myers walked the guy in front of him. Chipper not getting it done. Way to go guys. That inning is a snapshot of the whole year, close, but no cigar.

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Too (actually 4) little too late - classic Braves. come back to still lose. Forget what I said about Chipper being clutch. 0 for 12 his last 12 atbats with 2 outs and risp. Choke just like the rest of them - no runners on, he gets a double, bases loaded, he flys out.

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Good comparison TrueBlue but you meant Rafael Soriano (not Alfonso). Wild Thing has to be Wickman though… Lol.

By Mellon Collie

September 5, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Yes, Infinite Sadness, you have told us how much you hate Frenchy many times.

By Stuart

September 5, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

After today, will we finally get rid of Villareal. He is terrible.

By brent a.

September 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

1) Hampton’s injury 2) Chipper’s injury 3) Gonzo’s injury 4) Blown Saves 5) Edgar’s injury 6) Stopped hitting in the clutch

that’s the order I remember these happening in

By The Grinch

September 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

ijonathan, your 2:54 was hilarious.

So Braveheart, how do you feel about this Sage Francis guy?

Rocky Stone, you may be onto something; Thorman, Woodward and Orr all appear to be darkened stools on the bench. You think Bobby’s insisting on continuing to use them because he’s got a contract with Pepto?

By Mal Laise

September 5, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

hey, how ya doin. i’m gonna be hangin roun awhile, just bringin everyone down.

boy, nice rally. too bad it fell short. another close loss comin up. imagine what smoltz would do with all those runs. sad.

well, see ya. i’ll be back.

By Infinite Sadness

September 5, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Many times is not enough times. I reaaaaaaaaally hate Frenchy. Hate the man with a passion.

By The Truth Hurts

September 5, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Why is KJ swinging 2-0 with the bases loaded, Myers having already walked in a run…??

The Braves tortured the ball in the 8th. I mean, if you add up the distance of all 4 hits.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Again with the bases juiced and no or 1 out(s)…

By David-ATL14

September 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

DOB Good to see ya back at the helm.

To answer your query about Jason Isbell.

I’m headed up the road to see him perform at Patrick Sullivans Olde Towne Saloon in Knoxville Tenn.

I’ll give a report tomorrow.

Permit me to weigh in on the Harris/Diaz debate. Both are 4th OF’s and neither should be starting on a pennant contending team. Both are fine as role players nothing more.

By Mellone Collie

September 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Okay. We get it. You really hate Frenchy. Infinite Sadness, love ya man.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 5, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Rocky Stone,

Now that was a beautiful post. I haven’t seen a post like that in several days. Kinda chilling if you ask me. Almost made the hair on my neck stand up. {A sly grin} Can say that on blog??

By Infinite Sadness

September 5, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Mellon Collie, I love you too.

By Mellon Collie

September 5, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Infinite Sadness, love you three.

By BravesDave

September 5, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Wayne, good to see you back.

As for you, DOB, I don’t need a gold star or plus marks from you. It is funny that there is a blog full of whiny complaints regarding the Braves, but you choose the one complaint that says the blog is “frustrating”. Boy, is someone thin-skinned or what?? I did not even criticize you, unless you are the physical embodiment of “the blog”. I simply stated that you were providing the statistical backup for the opinion that Willie Harris should be on the bench and the fact that this team has been in the toilet since the 24-12 start. Don’t see how that is criticism of you, DOB. Jeez, take your ball and go home. You ripped on everyone that you could find earlier this season when the Braves were playing .500 ball, telling us how we didn’t know baseball and that the Braves were going to win the division. Now, you are blogging about the season being over and yet, the people that said that weeks ago are still somehow wrong in your eyes.

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Champdawg

Andruw must be anorexic!

By Prof.

September 5, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Popsicles (pronounced pop-si-cleese) was an ancient Greek philosopher who was the father of Hericles and is best remembered for his puzzling aphorisms such as:

You can pick your Egyptian queen and you can pick your asp but you cannot pick your Egyptian queens’ asp.

By Infinite Sadness

September 5, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Mellon Collie, I love ya four but I’ll love you more when Donk is nevermore.

How about that stock market?

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

You are wrong about Matt Diaz. He should be a starter in LF for the Braves. I think you are wrong about Harris too but he is slumping right now no doubt. Ya’ll forget about players like Tony Gwynn,Mike Piazza, and Kirby Puckett who could hit .325 to .400 with no defense or speed that became Hall Of Famers. Mike Diaz is the same type player.

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

typical Tex - has he ever gotten a hit in the 9th inning?

By zimo z

September 5, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

So are there like three people left in the stands?

By Mellon Collie

September 5, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Yes, Grinch. That douchebag Braveheart thinks he is an amateur music critic. I hate that guy but I hate you too Grinch. I hate Paladin the most. You guys are not pragmatic like me and Infinite Sadness.

Infinite Sadness, the stocks have not been the same for a while. You still following English soccer - real football?

By Steven

September 5, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Let’s see. Braves making a comeback in the bottom of the 8th. It’s now 8-6. Bases loaded, one out, 2-0 count to Johnson from a pitcher who has just walked in a run and is obviously struggling to find home plate. And with the 3 and 4 hitters to follow. Probably a good time to give the take sign. A no-brainer, I would think.

But Cox as usual gives the green light and Johnson pops up to the infield. More brilliant tactical managing.

I don’t know. If I’m the batter in that situation, I’m taking that 2-0 pitch regardless of what Cox tells me to do.

By Eternal Optimist

September 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Mellon Collie and Infinite Sadness, why did you losers just call DOB thin skinned? That was a real douchebag move on the part of you losers. BTW, us eternal optimists predicted you gloom and doom losers would pull a stunt like that on DOB and we’re angry with DOB too that he will not give us a gold star for correctly predicting your douchebaggery.

By zimo z

September 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Braves win.

LOL!

By ijonathan

September 5, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox:

“Who is this Mel Diaz guy? Was he in Richmond all year? Why didn’t we bring him up sooner?”

By Wayne in Utah

September 5, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Ya think that might perk the team up a bit?

Braveheart Has too much going on to spend time on the blog. Lots of family stuff, plus the frustrations with the whining that was permiating the blog.

Gotta get back to this project……

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Diaz - clutch

By StingerSplash

September 5, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Seven runs in the last two innings to win? Pardon my French, but you have to got to be merde-ing me.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Every time ya wanna throw some dirt on this team, they show some LIFE!!!

Dammit, Bobby (sounds like Hank Hill), start Matty D. every freakin’ DAY, dude!!!

By Stuart

September 5, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

NOW IS THERE ANY DOUBT DIAZ SHOULD BE PLAYING EVERYDAY, HOLY CRAP, I WILL TAKE MY FILET OF CROW MEDIUM WELL.

NOW THEY GOTTA BUILD ON THE WIN TODAY FOR IT TO MATTER, BUT FOR TODAY, I WILL EAT THE CROW AND ENJOY IT.

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Most exciting win since francisco cabrera.

Guess we never win in an exciting way.

hhehehehe….

By ElbravoX-- EbX

September 5, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Will this be the start of the biggest come back ever?

By Mal Laise

September 5, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

well, gotta go. looks like i wasn’t here after all.

By JD

September 5, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

DOB, Guess you’ll have rewrite the ending of your game story or something like that. At least you’ll hopefully miss some of the traffic.

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

My bad. I meant Matt Diaz.

The most frustrating part about losing is we all thought the additions of Tex and Mahay would solve the biggest weaknesses. But we didn’t expect C.James,Carlyle, & the bullpen to implode. Now its rubbing off on the offense. Sad.

By Rev. Zoldars

September 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Turning Point! Game of the year!

By 22oz

September 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

BRAVES WIN!! Why must they do this to us? Now i have hope…

By The Truth Hurts

September 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

How’s that for a rally?

Wow.

Infield hits rule!

We’re streaking! One in a row!

By rocky stone

September 5, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

rocky stone is very happy that the braves have won. must have been that scolding chipper gave the uh, umpire. and where is diaz going to play? he is the sparkplug. he can flat out hit. should have been batting cleanup instead of andruw. rocky

By TennesseePaul

September 5, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

BEST COME BACK EVER!!!!!

GO BRAVES!!

By flange1

September 5, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

David-ATL 14,

I agree with you on Diaz and Harris, both 4th outfielder/pinch hitters/role players. NOT starters. Even after Diaz’s double to win the game.

BravesDave,

Get over it..

By supa

September 5, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

holy cow. unbelievable.

if this doesn’t start a hot streak, i don’t know what will.

By Jim Valvano

September 5, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Speaking of goosebumps, Arkansas Hillbilly!

DON’T GIVE UP! DON’T EVER GIVE UP!

BRAVES WIN!!!

MATT DIAZ!!!!!

COX REMEMBERS DIAZ IS ON HIS TEAM BY ACCIDENT

DIAZ WINS THE GAME

BRAVES WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAGIC NUMBER FOR EAST IS 31

MAGIC NUMBER FOR POSTSEASON IS 29

GUARANTEED 5.5 GAMES OUT WITH 22 TO PLAY!

DON’T GIVE UP! DON’T EVER GIVE UP!

By Apaul404

September 5, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

That was exciting!

By Epinephrine

September 5, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Wow. For the few of us that actually like this team and still cheer for them-what a game.

By Daybed Wagmoe

September 5, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

YEAH DIAZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Robert

September 5, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

Where did it all go wrong for the Braves?

The day Cox showed up for spring training.

By the way, nice win tonday. Comeback too.

What’s that they say about blind hogs and acorns? Donkeys managers and ballgames?

By the way, the Braves should have won this game in the 8th.

Thanks to Cox, the Phillies had to hand it to them twice before they would take it

By Robert

September 5, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Fact of the matter is, this team just never has had a championship feel to it since, oh, some would say since

they hired a donkey to manage the team in 1990

By TN Jeff

September 5, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah,

Nope - I expect we’ll be losing to the Nats next while our diaz patiently sits

Hmmmm… while my guitar gently weeps similarity

By Lew

September 5, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

RobDawg-Your 4:58 was a perfect example of why you don’t post mid game. It ain’t over til it’s over. Holy Cornelia. That was a satisfying game. Unfortunately, we know exactly how the Phillies feel right about now. Don’t we?

By Bobby Cox

September 5, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

I gotta credit this victory to the minor league system. They did a great job with this Matt Diaz kid all summer. We were just lucky we could call him up as one of our September callups. It’s too bad he couldn’t be here all year but he needed that seasoning down in the minors this year.

By KC

September 5, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

THE GOOD NEWS FOR NEXT YEAR:

NEW OWNERSHIP!

I doubt JS would have had the liberty (no pun intended… ok, maybe a little) to make the (salary adding) trades he made at the deadline, under the previous ownership.

Liberty Media has already indicated that Braves Prez, Terry McGuirk, would have the freedom under his allotted budget to increase payroll. How much more with the Braves be able to spend? We probably won’t know for another 5 months… but they won’t be strapped to that hard line 80-mill budget they have been the last few years.

LOTS OF BULLPEN TALENT:

Soriano will have another few weeks to prove he can be the closer on opening day next year. If he continues to prove capable (and I think he will)… it’ll save the Braves a lot of money and/or talent, as proven closers don’t come cheap.

Moylan will be back. Acosta (despite last night’s hiccup) has looked great. Yates had only one bad month. He’s another solid reliever who will return. There are some other talented young arms like Ring and Devine ready to help. And of course, Mike Gonzalez should be back within the first half of the season.

It would be very nice to re-sign Mahay, but either way… the pen’s in good shape.

WE SHOULD HAVE A HEALTHIER (AND BETTER) ROTATION:

I know, I know… we all thought Hampton would be back THIS year, and we were disappointed… but there really is no reason why he shouldn’t finally be ready to go this spring. The Braves should not, and I’m quite certain WILL NOT back on him next year as they did this year… but Hampton should be ready to help.

Also, don’t forget Lance Cormier. We will have only had a healthy Lance Cormier in the rotation for about 6 weeks of this season. If he can avoid the injury bug next spring, it’ll be awfully nice to have him in there for a full season.

And lastly, the Braves should have the money and the talent to bolster their rotation from outside the organization. Trading Renteria could assist in this effort… either by way of his trade value, or the 6 million that trading him would free up. If there’s a young(ish) starter who can help this team next year and beyond, the Braves will pursue him. If not, Tom Glavine is a likely option.

OFFENSE WILL REMAIN EXCELLENT:

Yes, AJ will be gone… but that’s not much of a loss from this year to next considering the season he’s having. Renteria may also be replaces by Escobar next year… but the offense will still be potent.

All in all… we can take solace in the fact that things are looking darn good for next season.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 5, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

What a comeback ! How awesome to see the Braves having something to celebrate ! Great win !

By PrincetonBrave

September 5, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

START DIAZ!

The only clutch hit in a week.

START DIAZ!

What does this guy have to do to get the job??

Bravos!

By brent a.

September 5, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Yeah!

I get Dale Murphy’s autograph, and the Braves win - all in an afternoon.

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

OK, they won and I am just as happy as anyone about that. But, the Diaz situation is an enigma. If you play him full-time who do you have to come off the bench and get a hit like that? The obvious answer is to beef up the bench and flush that “darkened stool” away. Then, Diaz can play every day and get those hits earlier in the game.

By BravesFanInRockies

September 5, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

So on the day Andruw is removed in a double-switch, the Braves mount a furious comeback and win — with the walk-off hit provided by the guy who couldn’t crack the starting lineup.

The Baseball Gods are laughing at us.

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

You guys are insane saying the best hitter on the team should be the 4th OF. He should be in the line-up EVERDAY getting 4 at-bats. He’s better than Andruw,W.Harris,and Francoeur. Bench one of them but not Diaz. Unreal…

By Bobby Cox

September 5, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

I dunno DOB. This rookie Diaz has a chance to be the greatest September call up we have ever had.

By Steve

September 5, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Way to go Diaz. I guess he was able to get 3 at-bats today because Cox took Andruw out in the top of the 7th during a double switch because it looked to be a blow-out. If had treated more of the close games as blow-outs as well, just think where we might be. :-)

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Robert YOU would find something to p!ss ‘n’ moan about if JC, Himself, was managing the Braves.

By doc

September 5, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

when we couldnt put away the cubbies when they were imploding i went, uh oh and nothing has gone right for them since. they never could exceed a “win streak” of more than three games all year which is not what a winning team does. the losses to the reds have to be the sentinel losses to how bad this team either was or wanted it.

cant explain it except to say this mix doesnt know how to win and needs the infusion of a winner like pendleton was coming here as a player. chipper and aj werent on the series winning team so they arent the answer.

aj will need to be let loose and i am suprised to see my fingers typing this. there needs to be the infusion of new blood, sign tex, hold onto edgar and “platoon” johnson, diaz and escobar to keep them fresh. yes that means johnson spends more time in left than at second. he and escobar can do it at second and short after edgar leaves unless the real thing of the caliber of tex is brought in to play in left or center. otherwise it just means another leak of veteran leadership somewhere else as another patch is placed.

the bench needs some money spent on it, awful and not even major league. it would be a joke to get into the playoffs with such mediocrity. there needs to be a proven inning eater or two added to the starters. before anyone mentions glavine i ask, why would he want to come back to this?

this looks like the braves of the seventies to me, some good players with a lot of expectation without delivery of the goods. anybody remember the duke of earl behind the plate? that is what this team is beggining to resemble.

By Ron Roberts

September 5, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Hey Robert (the real donkey)… they won it all in 1995. World champions.

And division and league champions nany years after 1990.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 5, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Watching Escobar slide across the plate ahead of the tag , my mind flashed back to October 14th , 1992. The NLCS , game seven , bottom of the ninth. Pirates 2 Braves 0 , the Braves came up off the deck , scored three to win the NL Championship , Francisco Cabrera getting the game winning hit , Sid Bream sliding into home just ahead of the throw from Barry Bonds. Today’s game brought it all back , good memory’s of the glory day’s ! Thanks guys ! this fan will savor this game.

By bruce

September 5, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

we won the series.

By TennesseePaul

September 5, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Better yet, have someone who loves you pat you on your heads and give you a popsicle

HA! I just saw this. I do this quite a bit. It’s really uplifting. =)

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Lew Your earlier post to BraveDumb was Wurlitzer quality. Draw yourself one.

By Tim

September 5, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

man you all need to SHUT UP! you guys are the most fairweather fans i have ever heard. players are human and are not going to perform their best at all times. earlier this year you guys were in love with tim hudson. then he has a couple of bad starts and you beg management for an “ace”. i’ve been a loyal braves fan for ten years and all of you guys make me sick. support your team and shut your mouths.

By ssiscribe

September 5, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Holy Cornelia! Holy Rewrite, DOB! Holy Hope, Bloggers?!?!!

That’s what I get for going to the gym. Thought somebody had dropped a dumbbell on their foot. Instead, it was two yells from the other end as a few folks saw Diaz’s game winner.

Well, 5.5 back in the wild card. What do you say we sweep the Nats this weekend and see what happens from there?

A flame flickers in Atlanta maybe? We shall see, denizens.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul Try patting yourself on the head while making a circular movement with the Popsicle. See! You can’t do it. :>)

By GermanBravesFan

September 5, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Robert: GET A LIFE!!! This is getting REAL boring. Find a new subject, will you? Geez…

By Fred from CT

September 5, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

still have a little hope or prayer but either were still breathing. I know it sounds crazy but I still believe maybe this will spark something.

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

Tim Did you use to be Tiny Tim, or was that just a “rumor” your girlfriend started?

By 1957 Braves Fan

September 5, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

What a come back! Bottom of the ninth two outs and nobody on. Make contact and see what happens. Just like that game a few years ago against the Orioles when we came back from 7-0. Go Braves!

By Mit

September 5, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

man guys like tim need to SHUT UP! you guys are the most uncritical sheep i have ever seen. players are professionals who get paid to perform their best at all times. earlier this week you guys were in despair. then the braves win a game that the Phillies hand to them and now you think they can make the playoffs. i’ve been watching the braves for thirty years and they are reverting to eighties quality. all of you optimists make me sick. start being critical or nothing will change.

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Im not so sure if it is a good thing we keep winning, hahaha, how many of you guys will have a heart attack if we dont make october by just one game? woooowwwwww!!!!!!

That is possible. very posible. And then we will have to think of all those games we lost to reds, pirates, nats, fish, etc.

Cant really think positive right now. So frustrating to what this guy play hard today and on friday who knows…. maybe a sweep by the nats……THE TOTALLY UNPREDICTABLE BRAVES

By Train Wreck Bystander

September 5, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

A few more nails get pushed back up out of the coffin lid.

I’ll let you all get back to your elegy for the 2007 Braves now…

(yes, that’s elegy, not eulogy)

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 5, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Elbravo, I’m well aware that Chipper has a no-trade clause. You can stop with your “for the millionth time”. I know. I know. If Chipper wouldn’t wavie it then fine. Whatever. I will be happy to see him stay. Now moving on…………………..

In the words of Wesley Snipes from White Men Can’t Jump, “Even the sun shines on a dog’s a** somedays.”

What a win! I wish I could have saw it. Hopefully, ESPN will show the highlights.

I would like to say a win like this could finally provide the spark this team needed, but………………. I think I will hold off on jumping back onto the bandwagon of “the Braves are back in the playoff race”. We’ll see what happens Friday. I hope this does the trick though. Even if the team doesn’t make the playoffs to go a run of winning 20 of their last 25 would be a heck of a momentum lift for next season.

I still hold true to my previous post. I think the attitude of this team has to change. Even the Yankees relented some on their “business like approach”. The young kids (Hughes, Chamberlin, Cabrera, Duncan, and Cano) brought some youth and enthusiasm and Torre along with the Yankee brass didn’t stiffle it. That says a lot about Torre doesn’t it? It says that Torre realizes that even tried and true methods sometimes needs tweaking.

The Braves need more Frenchy’s and Escobar’s and less Chipper’s and Cox’s. I love Chipper to death. After Justice he is my favorite player of all time, but it just seems as though Chipper has become too stoic and uptight. Maybe its the way Cox runs the clubhouse and team. I don’t know.

Someone said earlier how hard Francoeur plays. He does play hard and he takes failure hard. I like that. You can’t take failure too hard but one should never accpet it or become “used” to it. And, I personally think that even kiel approach unintentionally leads to exactly that. Guys lose thier sense of urgency and competitive fire.

Look at the New England Patriots. That team stays calm and collected but when its time to fire up the troops they get fired up. Bellichick isn’t afraid to get in someone’s behind. He isn’t afraid to challenge some folks manhood and make them get into gear. Tom Brady is the perfect example. He is a true professional but nobody on that field has more fun than he does. And, you can tell it by the way he is always smiling and loose, but when things go bad he gets that “edge” until they are right again. You would never see Brady throw a pic and then just smile about it. How many times have we seen Andruw strikeout on a pitch 10 inches off the plate and he just smiles as if he just hit a homerun.

By The Grinch

September 5, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

I hate it when that happens; I took a nap after the 7th. I take it something good happened?

I can’t wait for someone to call it pinch-hitting genius and actually mean it.

Well, my curiosity’s piqued again; maybe they ain’t dead after all. Now if we can just get about four other teams to start blowing chunks…

By Carlos

September 5, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

Aaaaah! I was watching the play-by-play on MLB.com’s Gameday from work, and after the 8th inning rally ended with Chipper, and Teixeira led the ninth with a strikeout, I was discouraged.

Then it showed Diaz had a “no outs,” which meant he got some sort of hit, but it didn’t say what for minutes! Then it finally showed that all 3 runners scored, and I stood up in joy! There should be a yearly award for players in his position.

Yeah, I’m excited and believe the Braves could possibly maybe perhaps make it only because of this, as that’s how streaks usually start.

Just imagine the lift from the frustrating events of the past month after such a motivational win. Coming back from behind after continually ending games with runners in scoring position, and extra-inning affairs where they could pretty much guarantee a loss only after their bullpen was exhausted enough.

Also, I like to hope. :)

By Tim

September 5, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Paladin, you are an idiot…even when the braves put on a great show like they did today, you have something to complain about. no one cares what you think. your opinion matters to no one. all of your whining doesn’t change anything. shut up and go bury yourself in a hole.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 5, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

Several on here like to demean my constant bellowing about the lack of fire and passion, which is real as far as I’m concerned. But, a game like today is what I was talking about when I said this team played with no passion or sense of urgency. Hudson, Smoltz, and Fracoeur said as much over the last few days. A comeback like this happens by a team that actually gives a damn. After they had cut the lead from 5 to 3 only to watch the Phillies add three more on could be have been the deathblow. I’m sure I’m not the only one here who thought the game was over at that point and who also thought the Braves would pack it up and just play out the string. But, they didn’t. The best thing about the comeback in the ninth was that it happened with two outs and nobody on base and it happened with gritty plays. I’m not shocked it was Francoeur who got it started. He did what a “star” is supposed to do. He put his money where his mouth is and came through.

Man, I hope this gets this team going…….FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!

By Bobby Cox, Esquire

September 5, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

Well have we done, thrice valiant countrymen:

But all’s not done; yet keep the Frenchy in the field.

I was not angry since we played the Mets

Until this instant. Take a trumpet, herald;

Ride thou unto the horsemen on yon hill:

If they will fight with us, bid them come down,

Or void the field; they do offend our sight:

If they’ll do neither, we will come to them,

And make them skirr away, as swift as stones

Enforced from the old Assyrian slings:

Besides, we’ll cut the throats of those we have,

And not a man of them that we shall take

Shall taste our mercy. Go and tell them so.

By BravesDave

September 5, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

BravesDumb?? So creative, Paladin. I am so glad for you that you have this blog as a tool to boost your ego. You just can’t stop yourself from telling everyone how superior you are to everyone else. I, for one, wish I could see it. I don’t think I have ever read one insightful, intelligent, or interesting post from you in the many months that I have been visiting this blog. I have been cheered lately, though, to read a few of your posts that actually dealt with baseball. Funny thing was, they were very negative. Strange.

By Curious

September 5, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

I’ve think that George Bush is in Bobby’s uniform. No one else but these two are so foolishly faithful to loser members of their team. Bobby’s list is Willie and AJ and Bush’s list is too long to go in to. Wish business America was as faithful to the working man/woman as these two.

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

TeenieTinyTim I didn’t complain about a GD thing. Read the posts or get your big thister to do it for you. And I think that people care a lot less about hearing from someone like you who comes on here and tells people th “shut your mouth” like this was your blog and you make the rules. If you don’t like what you read on here why don’t you go do something worthwhile? Like get a penus-implant.

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this

BravesDove At least you figured out it was about you. That’s a start.

By Paladin

September 5, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

I’ve got to tear myself away from all this fun and games and go to dinner. But, I’ll be back. Count on it.

By Einstein

September 5, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

First of all, Bobby Cox is a good man; however, the game has passed him by. He is only consumed with 3 things: Adding to the record for being thrown out of games, collecting his paycheck, and being Mr. Popularity with all his players…winning is 4th. The team has taken on his personna and has no energy or real emotion (except for the younger players that T. Pendleton has not ruined yet.) Time for a change. Hopefully, JS and BC and TP and RMc will move on to retirement, and the new organization will make the necessary changes. Perhaps it’s time for McQuirk to go, too, especially if he so blind or inept to see what’s happening. But, in reality it’s all about the money.

By Robert

September 5, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

“By Paladin

September 5, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Robert YOU would find something to p!ss ‘n’ moan about if JC, Himself, was managing the Braves.”

Paladin, I’m not p** or moaning. I am stating fact. And the fact is that if we had a decent manager, we probly wouldnt have been down 8-2, or if we had, we probly wouldve gone ahead in the 8th

The Phillies gave the game away twice.

That said, overcoming a 6-run deficit AND the handowork of a donkey is cause for celebration

Wanna bet the Nats take two of three?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 5, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

Greetings all, Just when I was ready to throw in the towel and concede the season, the Braves pull one out. Wow, what a finish. I am still a bit sceptical that the Braves can somehow overcome all the teams ahead of them to finish with a playoff spot but wasn’t it a game just like this back in ‘05 against Baltimore that got the Braves going?

At least they made my day a lot more positive.

By Overlord

September 5, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Robert if yout didnt see braves win today you sure lost one of the better wins for the braves last 16 years.

Emotional!!!!!!!! Good one.

We could have had 10 more of that but our real world is different so……lets just enjoy this one.

If you are not able to see it on ESPN you could watch it on MLBTV

By bruce

September 5, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

Dave, I believe I heard on TV last night that Willie has slumped since his hand or wrist injury, not able to use much top hand on swing, but has been trying to play through it. On a replay, just after this was first mentioned,they commented that on a high pitch he hit to right, that he got his top hand involved. Maybe Willie did not want you to mention it, an excuse or something, but I admire that. Thanks, Bruce

By robdawg06

September 5, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

All the Mets have to do is play .500 ball and the division is won. As for the Wild Card the Braves won’t beat out 6 other teams. You should know that. This season was lost the last two weeks.

By Bob

September 5, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan,

You are wasting your time. Robert is like a cancer. He obviously is having sex with a donkey since that is the only thing that is EVER on his friggin mind. You would think that an adult could think of something new, but not this moron.

I suffered through the Friday and Sunday losses at the TED. Fortunately I did get to see my Dawgs win Between the Hedges Saturday night. Bayern survived with a tie at HSV.

A prost with a Franken Bocksbeutel that a friend brought me yesterday.

By gotigers72

September 5, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

I’ll give you a plausible explanation for Willie continuing to play and hitting in the leadoff spot, and for Andruw remaining in the cleanup spot despite hitting below .200, prior to Teixeira coming over.

Did you see “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”? The scene after Jack Nicholson’s character choked Nurse Ratched, when he was brought back onto the ward after having a lobotomy? That’s what has happened. At some point, BC had a lobotomy and they snuck him back into the dugout to manage. The baseball cap covers the lobotomy scars, so nobody is the wiser.

Seriously, I’m a BC fan, but IMO, he has had a bad year, refusing to recognize when it’s time to make changes that would help the team.

By Bobby

September 5, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

Many fine bloggers missing, but that nasty SJA is finally dead!

By Greg in TN

September 5, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

Evening gang…

Is there a pulse on the patient? Maybe so after grabbing victory from the jaws of defeat today. Feels good saying that. I always enjoy CR’s blogs, but it’s also nice to have DOB back and blogging in the Braves/MIB domain.

Maybe today was the stomp on the brake pedal which precipitates a u-turn on Irrelevant Avenue, or was it just a touch of the brakes? Either way, I’ll take today’s result happily. I just wish like the other denizens that weren’t able to see the broadcast that I would have had the chance to see it on the tube live and in living color.

So much has been said about the shortcomings of this squad and much of it is fair. I’ll be pulling hard for the guys against the Nats this weekend, just as I always do when these guys take the field. I think it’s pointless to worry about the help we need to get into the postseason now. Don’t worry about the next day’s game, who is coming into town next series, next week. Focus one game at a time, one play at a time, one pitch. Focus on the job at hand and take care of business on the field, something we haven’t been doing consistently for most of the year.

Is this the spark we’ve been looking for and on which we can build?

We’ll start finding out in about 48 hours.

By Don

September 5, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

Turning point for the Braves - to me, sweeping the Pirates right after the All-Star break to go 8 games over .500, then being swept by miserable Cincinnati at home to give it all back.

BTW - this team will never climb back on top with this poor play on the home field. Two years in a row of no home field advantage for the Braves.

Also, I know Hudson has been mostly good, but is he beginning to revert back to his 2006 ways with the last 3 or 4 poor starts?

By dadgum

September 5, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Man oh man oh man…Cox escaped today. The dude is just getting passed by in the managing ranks. He can’t make a right move. Luckily Harris comes to the rescue today and if I were managing this team AJ would be on the bench in favor of Harris in CF. He is batting 70 points higher and has a knack for coming thru. I know he has slumped BADLY but so what Andruw is mired in a slump since what April 4th. Go with Diaz in LF Harris in CF and Francouer in RF and forget it. Quit the damn platooning. It messes with chemistry or what is left of it.

By the way great win today! This makes up for the Houston giveaway. In fact it looked just like it. By the way we can all just totally give up on the wild card. Guess that is obvious. The division is all that remains mathematically and practically alive. OK I know I am dreaming. “Poppies, poppies will make them sleep”. Ha Ha!

Rock on…remembering Ian Anderson and the great Jethro Tull.

By Bob, Journalist

September 5, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

I’m just passing through … Comment of the day, week, month, maybe the season … many if not most of us have on occasion taken Coach to task for a multitude of reasons … well, from my perspective, his “Thanks guys! this fan will savor this game” … deserves our applause!

Rather than critiquing team performance, wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could all join Coach, enjoy the moment and embrace our team!

I was also appreciative of earlier, well expressed comments from Palidin and the expanding comments from William Wallace … the Blog derives it’s definition from those who participate … and methinks our baseball knowledge and insights have improved and our lives enriched by the offerings of so many different good folks.

Kudos all!

By brian

September 5, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

To answer your question Dave O’Brien on the top of the blog

The Braves season went south when Time Warner Cable would not pony up the cash to sign TOM GLAVINE.

We sign Tom Glavine (and the Mets don’t) - we have a solid 1,2,3 starter with Chuck James a 4th, and the 5th would have been early season Carlyle and now Cormier.

He was the answer to our starting pitching woes this season. Thanks Time Warner Cable.

By Supes

September 5, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

A come from behind clutch win…haven’t seen one of those in a while.

Matt Diaz is a hitting fool! He should be starting every game for the rest of the year in LF and use Willie Harris in pinch hitting/pinch running situations, or as a defensive replacement in the late innings.

KC I agree with a lot of what you said as far as the 2008 season for the Braves. With a trade for a solid starting pitcher, getting everyone they have healthy…there is no reason to believe they wouldn’t contend for the NL East title/playoffs.

I think the Mets are going down next year…they are an old team, unless they make some moves which they very well may do. The Phillies will be better, you never know what the Marlins will do. Anyways, it’ll be a tough divison again, but I believe it’s there for the taking in 2008 for the Braves. Just gotta trade for a solid starter, get everyone healthy and actually play up to their potential!

By Seymour Butts

September 5, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

I just love reading the posts here questioning Bobby Cox’s moves like this is the first year he has made hairbrained decisions. For all of you still floating in the “cloud” of division titles, it’s pretty clear that Cox has been making the same boneheaded moves year in and year out since he took the helm here. He made countless moves(or lack thereof) starting back in the 1991 world series that left us headscratching. Here are some Cox truisms over the last 16 years: he continues to play cold hitters over hot for “matchup” reasons; he continues to use the same relief pitchers over and over in the same spots regardless of the outcomes; he continues to play his favorites no matter how bad they are performing; and he has zero creativity as far as manufacturing a run when needed. Someone mentioned his loyalty to Wickman this year but many forget his stronger loyalty to Reitsma and Kolb who were many times worse than Wickman could ever be. How about playing Andruw in the 4 hole for months even though we all knew he would stikeout or hit into a DP(thank God for Tex or AJ would still be our #4 guy). This did not just start happening this year. Cox has survived in Atlanta because of Corporate ownership and a weak fan base. Any other city would have rung him up in 1999 after losing the last 7 world series games in a row to the Yankees. Cox is a mediocre manager who happened to get the most talented pitching staff of this era. A good manager would have produced at least 3 titles with that talent. Cox calls the playoffs a “crapshoot” because his strategies do not work in a win or lose series. Like Andruw, Cox refuses to change or make adjustments which explains his poor record in the postseason. Now that our run is over, it is sad to look back at what could have been and realize that the Marlins and Bluejays won more titles than us during our period of dominance. For the same reasons that people here are blaming Cox for this season, our postseason failures come from the same source. I wish that Bobby would have been moved to the front office long ago but we can’t change the past. I just hope that JS sees the need for new leadership when building the Braves for the next run.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

September 5, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Guess who was at the game???? First game in ages??? Guess who had to leave with the game 8-2 at the beginning of the 8th cuz the old timers I was with(My 75 year old Dad and his best friend in town from Kentucky) were tired and bored watching the braves lose!

CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!

Not gonna forgive them anytime soon!

By fast one

September 5, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

am i first?

By Mitchell Hughes

September 5, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

That was the day, the day it all went downhill. I remember my exact quote that I said to a fried of mine after the second blowout game of the Pittsburg series was, “it’s on.” It’s on meaning, it’s over, meaning we’re gonna roll through this thing, meaning “yeah baby.” I knew I shouldn’t have said that because I could tell that wouldn’t be the case before too long. That was definitely the day.

By Kentavo

September 5, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

Anyone notice who wasn’t in the game when we made the comeback in the 8th and 9th? That’s right, Mr. Andruw “Rally Killer” Jones. Coincidence. No way. He wasn’t there to kill those rallies, so we were able to pull it out. Now if only the bullheaded manager would take note. Oh yeah, and I bet Matt Diaz won’t get increased playing time either.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this

Just heard an incredible stat on Baseball Tonight: Before today, teams were 517-0 this season when winning by six or more runs entering the 8th inning. Yes, 517-0.

It’s now 517-1.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Berigan, I admire the honesty. I think if that had happened to me, I’d either not admit to going, or fib about when I left.

Dude, it was one of the most incredible things I’ve seen. I mean, a month’s worth of bloop hits in one innings. Unbelievable.

Imagine how the Phillies will think, looking back at this game, if they happen to miss the playoffs by one win….

By Herschel Talker

September 6, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

DOB: assuming Hampton doesn’t bounce back, how does 2008 not end up a repeat of 2007? This is the worst free-agent pitching market in 10 years. I see the 3-5 spots being equally bad next year…

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

By the way, the “good” news about Hudson today: He insisted he felt great. No fatigue or injuries, no nothing. He made no excuses, just said he missed on a few pitches.

The bad news: He’s 0-2 with a 7.88 ERA in his past three starts, with 26 hits and 14 earned runs allowed in 16 innings.

That after going 9-0 with a 2.57 ERA in his previous 11 starts.

I’ve seen no heavy sink on his pitches in his past few starts, the bread-and-butter pitch that’s carried him all year (and all career, when he’s going well)….

Oh, and in his past six vs. Phils, he’s 0-2 with a 5.59 ERA. And in the past two of those, he’s allowed 21 hits and 10 earned runs in 11-2/3 innings.

Hey, some guys stink against one team or another, for whatever. Boston is his (3-9, 6.26 ERA in 12 starts), but the Phils have also had his number lately.

Meanwhile, Hudson is 6-1 with a 2.47 ERA in 11 starts vs. Florida (and would be even more impressive were it not for Wickman), 10-2 with a 2.61 ERA in 14 vs. Toronto, 9-2 with a 3.07 ERA in 14 starts vs. Detroit, 4-0 with a 1.61 ERA in six vs. Arizona, 6-2 with a 2.12 ERA in 13 vs. Minnesota, 6-1 with a 2.85ERA in 10 vs. Tampa Bay, and 9-2 with a 2.53 ERA in 11 vs. Baltimore.

He’s only won once in 10 starts vs the Yankees, despite a 3.78 ERA against the Empire.

By GeorgiaJon

September 6, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

DOB, if your still here: I dont know all the exact numbers, but it seems as though all the pitchers we have brought up/ traded for, have not had turn around seasons and or sustained success such as they did with Leo at the reins. Since his friend at Baltimore was fired do you think there is any chance he could come back to ATL? This is not to say that McDowell has not been a good pitching coach but merely speculation that whatever magical chemistry that Bobby and Leo had has been lost and in turn the pitching has clearly struggled. It would be great to see him back in ATL. Just looking for an insiders view on that possibilty

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

Herschel, sooo much can happen. Braves don’t sign free-agent pitchers anyway, they trade for them. Too expensive to sign them these days, unless you’ve got a huge payroll or want to hand out an absurd contract like Giants did with Zito.

Braves can use Edgar and maybe a prospect (yes, they’ve still got quite a few) to get a solid pitcher, if not a No. 1 then a No. 2 or 3, which is really all they need with Hudson and Smoltz returning. They won’t count on Hampton, at least not they were counting on him this year.

They’ll pencil him in, but will have protection if he doesn’t make it, and probably won’t count on him as more than a 4 or 5 anyway.

By Dad

September 6, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this

The Braves skid started when they thought they could stay with the Mets in the NL East all season long. I kept telling you Braves fans that the Braves would eventually fade out of the NL East race. By the end of the season, the Braves will finish 15 games behind the Mets. I pointed out all the Braves weaknesses. Mainly,the 3,4 and 5 starters. They are a bunch of losers. They have only pitched 26 quality starts out of 98 games. With Hudson back to his mediocre pitching, the Braves goose is cooked. So, Braves fans switch over and pull for the Mets. You will enjoy their march to the World Series Champioship.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

Herschel, by the way, that’s another reason the Braves need Edgar to get back and finish strong, so there are no doubts about his health and he ends up having solid numbers despite missing a month. They’re a lot more likely to get a pitcher in a trade for him (if they decide to go that route) if he’s able to come back and finish strong. I think he’ll be activated Friday, after watching him work out this week.

GEORGIAJON, I just can’t see it happening, not while Cox and Schuerholz are here. The chemistry you perceive wasn’t as you might imagine off the field. The results were great, but don’t think that meant the chemistry was, at least not in the latter years.

Hey, we’ve been down this road a hundred times — was it Leo, or was it the best starters any team’s had in the past two decades? Or was it both? Did his gruff style help or hinder? Blah blah blah. And really, I can only go by what I hear and by results (they were great, but not so much in the last few years when the payroll declined).

I miss the hell out of Leo. I had a great relationship with him and he was a great quote for me, a great guy to talk to. Haven’t developed anything like that with Roger, and I don’t think Roger cares to develop any relationship with most of us in the media. That’s fine (not for me, but Braves don’t make decisions based on what’s good for me, but what’s good for their pitchers).

I still hear only good stuff about Roger. Maybe they’re biting their tongues, but I really only hear good stuff about him. I know the results haven’t been great. Then again, take a look at Baltimore’s results in two seasons under Leo.

I don’t know what to tell you. Leo had an incredible run here, but while Cox is here, and while John Schuerholz is here, and also a certain prominent pitcher or two, I don’t see any way he comes back.

By uga-brave

September 6, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

the biggest impact on the braves, three years from now probably wont involve any of our current personel. for me it will not being able to keep DAYTON MOORE around. the guy was defintely ready to be a G.M., just wish js would of been able to keep him. the guy is a dynamic judge of talent.

dont be suprised if the royals morph into the twins in two years.

By uga-brave

September 6, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

the great thing about baseball is, 162 games dont lie. in 162 every now and then a yugo turns into a mercedes or vice versa. kind of wonder what the fightins blog is like tonight. kinda nice being on the other side for a change.

baseball gods evened a few of those breaks out today, even if it was just for one day.

By uga-brave

September 6, 2007 1:00 AM | Link to this

DOB,

always heard rumors that leo’s relationship had eroded with certain people toward the end, just never knew it had gotten to that point.

i knew some pitchers like marquis, thompson, and horacio loathed him but i always thought it was more them.

thanks for the insight on mcdowell. always thought it was weird why we never heard any thoughts from him, now i know. sort of peculiar though for a guy that was supposed to be a real character. still his cameo on SEINFELD was one of the funniest all time episodes.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 6, 2007 1:29 AM | Link to this

My take on the Leo Mazzone/Bobby Cox era is this. Good Cop/Bad cop , Laurel & Hardy , The Lone Ranger and Tonto , oil and water , etc. Together , they were great. Separate , the two of them have been average. It’s well known that most of the younger pitchers all but hated Leo , the guy was old school. But , the veteran pitchers respected his knowledge of the game. He expected the same consistency from all his pitchers. Mazzone would cuss you out and Cox would pat you on the back , somehow it always worked out in the end.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this

Could be something to that theory, but it might take some distance, some time, before anyone would admit as much.

I just don’t know and don’t want to speculate on such a sensitive topic unless I’ve got a good idea I’m right. In this instance, I don’t know.

And yes, uga-brave, he’s different than i expected. then again, probably wasn’t fair or reasonable for me to expect him to be the cutup he portrayed on Seinfeld and the guy he was as a player. He wouldn’t last long being a clown as a coach, right? But yes, I did expect a more outgoing guy, one who would be more comfortable dealing with the media.

By MS

September 6, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this

Hahaha. Yes, that was a great Seinfeld cameo.

“It was McDowell!!!!”

By fastasballs

September 6, 2007 1:59 AM | Link to this

The Braves only need to go 19-3 in the final 22 games to finish the final 36 games with the same record they had after the first 36 games, 24-12. That should just about nail the wildcard down. No I have not been drinking, although I would like to be.

Didn’t the Braves have a come back against the Astros last year where they scored 6 or 7 in the 9th & in similar fashion as today, by way of a bunch of dink & doink hits?

Braves can use Edgar and maybe a prospect (yes, they’ve still got quite a few) to get a solid pitcher, if not a No. 1 then a No. 2 or 3, which is really all they need with Hudson and Smoltz returning.

Thank you DOB. Half of this blog thinks we traded the entire farm, their stadiums & fan bases to the Rangers for Tex. Our resident Muts expert tells us each & every day how we don’t have prospects left to work any deals.

There is four stud outfielders in the system, just about one at each level. Some power arms that dominated low A ball & should start in high A next year & enough infielders to field a Army infantry division. The only player in the whole Tex deal I wish we had kept was Feliz.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 6, 2007 2:18 AM | Link to this

Hey , O’Brien. Remember Kris Medlen the Braves 10th round selection in 2006 , the young right handed relief pitcher is already in AA Mississippi.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 6, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this

Richmond, VA – The Richmond Braves beat the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees 3-2 in Game One of their best-of-five Governors Cup first round playoff series Wednesday at The Diamond. Larry Bigbie knocked in two runs and Jeff Bennett pitched five and one-third solid innings to lead the Braves in the playoff opener.

The Braves scored twice in the bottom of the first. Barbaro Canizares knocked in a run with a sacrifice fly and Larry Bigbie chased a run in with a single to give Richmond a 2-0 lead. Bigbie singled another run home in the third to stretch the lead to 3-0. The Yankees tallied in the fourth on a solo home run by Bronson Sardinha. The Yankees cut the Braves lead to 3-2 in the ninth on an RBI single by Juan Francia before Joey Devine closed the game.

Bennett earned the win. Devine notched the save. Steven White took the loss. Bigbie had two hits for Richmond. Francia, Brett Gardner, and Andy Cannizaro had two hits each for the Yankees.

The Braves and Yankees meet in Game Two Thursday at 7 PM at The Diamond. Blaine Boyer will pitch for the Braves against Kei Igawa. Playoff tickets are on sale now. For more information please call 359-4444 or visit www.rbraves.com.

By Serbok

September 6, 2007 2:34 AM | Link to this

DOB I want to thank you for the AWESOME job you have done this summer!!!!! You are the man that makes this blog go! My friend you Have summed it up this day! Thank you! Your observations are right on

SEEMS to Me, there isnt any GOOD starting pitching available at this time in BB, So which way is the worm gonna turn? IS MLB gonna be a slugfest for the next “few” years? The teams that have SP are gonna rule? I sincerely think that GM’s need to take that into consideration~ Cuz if that thought is correct? Then it needs to be pondered? My guess is JS woulda traded Salty and whoever, for Johan Santanna? Yankees are paying Roger? Now at 46 he needs an MRI? The game is changing? Right b4 our eyes? Socrates once said~ The ONLY thing I Know is I do not know anything. Seems to me IF the game IS changing in that direction~ We better hold on to JF maybe AJ and anyone who can hit a BB!

By Serbok

September 6, 2007 2:36 AM | Link to this

I realize~ there will be a post saying~ AJ cannot hit a BB! I’m not even gonna go there~

By mr baseball

September 6, 2007 2:38 AM | Link to this

As a frequent critic of the current manager and GM, how about a few digs for the third member of the Braves “Holy Trinity” that the propaganda-fed fan base has been lauding since 1991.

Leo Mazzone was as good a pitching coach as the talent he had to work with. No other pitching coach in modern times has had the likes of Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Leibrandt, Maddux, Millwood, Neagle, Ortiz, etc., for an extended period. He had some obvious success stories, most notably Jaret Wright, and apparently helped a few other supposedly washed up vets to reclaim some of their past skills, mainly guys coming back from serious injuries.

On the other hand, I can’t recall coming across a single critique of Mazzone pointing out how truly lousy he was at developing young pitching talent. Post-Avery, the only young Braves starting pitcher who has made any sort of sustained contribution to this team is Millwood, and that takes in about 15 years.

Why have so many Braves’ youngsters showed some initial promise but never panned out, at least not here? And why has the GM spent most of the last decade unloading a huge percentage of the best young arms in the organization? Could it be that he knew that Mazzone would fail to develop their skills? Just about every young pitcher who left here apparently was very happy to get away from him.

Frankly, any pitching coach with Glavine-Smoltz-Avery followed by Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz was going to preside over some impressive pitching stats. He doesn’t have that much to work with in Baltimore, and the ugly numbers put up by the Baltimore staff is a testament to the fact that baseball coaches are limited by the talent on hand.

Unless you’re a Roger Craig who can teach a guy a new pitch that can change his career, a pitching coach can’t do much more than smooth off a few rough edges. Mazzone can plenty of credit, some of it deserved, some of it overblown. But there has never been a balanced, comprehensive look at both sides of his record here. If it’s done, I think he’ll lose a little of his lofty reputation, much the same as the manager and GM would in similar circumstances.

By Serbok

September 6, 2007 3:13 AM | Link to this

KGUYS? Mazzone** Is NO different than BOBBY? They were very lucky ppl~ They rode “coat-tails” Management on this team has done it for 15 years! My Guess (only a guess) Is that JS deserves the credit for assembling the type of talent that has carried the braves to the most prestigious record in all of sports?

I AM a Bobby Basher? YES~ I dont know much about anything:o)~ My guess is Bobby Knight coulda done a better job! As far as Roger Mcdowell goes? I bet he wishes he had Smoltz,Avery, Maddog, ETC…………….. Tryin to win games for him?

By AZBravoFan

September 6, 2007 3:13 AM | Link to this

Holy cow! Just finished watching the game on Tivo. I guess this is where we see what the team is really made of. Are they Destiny’s Team that rides the wave of momentum started by this game all the way to the wild card? Or do they go right back into the tank this weekend against the likes of Matt Chico and Jason Bergmann? I guess we’ll know on Monday.

By AZBravoFan

September 6, 2007 3:16 AM | Link to this

By the way, as horrid as last weekend was for us Braves fans, can you imagine waking up as a Phillie fan this morning? Wow!

By Serbok

September 6, 2007 3:27 AM | Link to this

mr baseball

IF Leo had anything to do with MR BB comment? Leo Mazzone was as good a pitching coach as the talent he had to work with. No other pitching coach in modern times has had the likes of Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Leibrandt, Maddux, Millwood, Neagle, Ortiz, etc., for an extended period. He had some obvious success stories, most notably Jaret Wright, and apparently helped a few other supposedly washed up vets to reclaim some of their past skills, mainly guys coming back from serious injuries.

Then ALL **Bobby had to do was watch? which is most likely. I doubt Leo had much to do with that~ Bobby on the other hand? thats another story?

By Serbok

September 6, 2007 3:31 AM | Link to this

AZBravoFan Bravo to you my fellow braves fan! I’m ALWAYS lookin for miracles:o)

By Gil in Mechanicsville

September 6, 2007 5:07 AM | Link to this

Good morning Braves fans, you too Robert… I have felt it somewhat difficult to get back to my pre-vacation form since returning from beautiful Holden Beach N.C.

I was only was able to witness one game on TV and had very limited internet access so I became deprogrammed. Alas, watching the Mutts take all three games from the Bravos did little to get me fired up over our chances to make the post season.

With that being said, yesterday was a game for the ages, I confess to telling the wife several times that the Braves were not coming back. I went outside about the 5th inning and did something constructive and changed the oil in two of my vehicles.

When I came back in during the 8th inning I was pleasantly surprised by the Braves’ beginnings of their comeback. The ninth inning became a thing of joy. Absolutely giddy was I. Where had this team been hiding the past few months?

There are games you lose you are supposed to win, this was one we one we should have lost but won. A great day to be a Braves fan. My beautiful bride and I are going to see the Richmond team play tonight. Let’s hope they can continue their good work. There are still some talented ball players here. Durham is the team to beat as their major league affiliate, the Devil Rays, are not going to pull up players for the pennant race.

I’ll give a scouting report hopefully tomorrow.

By Marc

September 6, 2007 5:13 AM | Link to this

As crazy as it seems, if we win 5 out of 6 in the coming games against the Mets and Nats, we’re suddenly in contention again. With the Nats, fish, Phils, Brewers, and Astros left in the season, that leaves room for hope as we should (if we play like we’re capable of playing) be able to win most of those games too.

Seems far-fetched, but a 5 out of 6 could do the trick.

By Greg

September 6, 2007 7:02 AM | Link to this

Hey, Guys: Before we revise history to make Leo less than great. Consider the following: Of the big four—Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, and Avery—the only one who was a polished pitcher before he got to Leo was Greg. Smoltz and Avery had terrific stuff, but they were unfocused. Does anybody else remember how Smoltz had to have his sports psychologist sit in the stands during 1991 to help him concentrate? As for Glavine, Leo’s away, away, away strategy made Tommy. Yes, Leo had great talent in his stable, but he also helped refine that talent. Burkett was done. Dennis Martinez was done. Leo resurrected those careers. As for Jaret Wright, his heirs should pay a percentage to Leo for the rest of their lives. If it wasn’t for Leo, he wouldn’t be raking in $10 million per year. He’d be out of the game. Maybe Leo’s old style way of doing things didn’t play with Bruce Chen, Jason Marquis, Odalis Perez, etc. But the only one who really showed up Mazzone was Marquis. As for his work with the O’s. Um…Bedard seems to have benefited. And Cabrera would benefit if he could throw a strike. Leo and Greg Maddux will go down in history as the two best pitching coaches in the history of the game. And we were lucky enough to have both on our team for more than a decade.

By Niekro35

September 6, 2007 7:45 AM | Link to this

Leo had the luck of coming in when there was an incredible pipeline of pitching talent coming through the minor league system. I think Smoltz and Glavine would still be hall of famers had they never met Leo. And guys like Stanton and Mercker would still have great careers. He certainly helped them, though.

I think Leo got a little full of himself towards the end of his Braves tenure. He became more difficult to work with, especially for younger pitchers. Leo remained useful to the team with his work with guys who were on the verge of losing their careers. Guys who had no choice but to listen to him. Guys like Burkett and Wright.

I think we were lucky to have Leo; I’m also glad that he’s gone.

By Tootie Bird

September 6, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

I see on the main page where “Benoit may have had brain damage”. Duh! He was a “rassler” wasn’t he? He also blogged under the name of “BravesDave”.

By Will

September 6, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

It seems like too little too late, but it was nice to see the Braves put a major dent in Philly’s playoff chances yesterday. It was very enjoyable to read the articles in the Philly paper online this morning.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

Since “music” is an allowed subject on here, I would like to acknowledge the passing of the voice of the centuries, Luciano Pavarotti. I am not an opera buff, but you did not have to be one to have chills go down your spine when he hit high “C”. I was in absolute awe every time I heard that fantastic voice of his. He is the only person who I would have loved to hear sing The Star Spangled Banner. He would have hit those notes that others just slip ‘n’ slide through. Farewell, Luciano, and thank God, we have recordings to remember you by.

By Stuart

September 6, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

15-7 or 16-6 down the stretch will get it done and win us the WC. The braves have 6 left with the Nats, 3 with the Astros and 4 with the brewers, and I think 3 with the fish. 13-3 in those games and split with the Mets and Phils and we got a chance.

By Rick Kelley

September 6, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

For so many years the Braves have tried player after player to put them back in the playoffs and the World Series. How about this? How about getting rid of that good for nothing Cox as manager? An empty paper sack would make a better manager than Cox. Just how bad will the Braves have to get before the powers that be gets someone that knows how to manage and win? Fourteen divisional titles does NOT mean a thing without a World Series title.

By Will

September 6, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Stuart, With 5 teams in between the Braves and the Wild card i dont see how that will happen. I do applaud the effort yesterday it was the first glimpse of a heart the team has shown in awhile. The other factor that bothers me is i think Tim Hudson has hit a wall. They won in spite of him yesterday and that is the first time that has happened in a long time. I am not trying to knock him at all, he has been great all season, but the last two games have been less then stellar.

By Lee in S. GA

September 6, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

The win yesterday was a lethal blow to the Phillies chances of winning the Wild Card. I am sure their fans are more rowdy than ever today.

Pretty much too little too late for the Braves. This team just cannot win consistently enough to overcome the number of teams in front of them for the W.C. chase.

All of a sudden the D’back are beating up on the Padres. More-than-likely the winner of the W.C. will come out of the West.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Once again if you check the picture in the official site of the braves…. the celebration at homeplate, you see tex putting his arms around chipper, but chipper doesnt seem he wants to celebrate with tex. You will say im imagining things, but to me it is clear that tex is looking for chippers acceptance (as he is the alfa male) but chipper for some reason (i cant think of one) is not giving tex any welcome to atlanta. Tex acts as if chipper is his hero and chipper acts as tex is a dust particle in his eye.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

I would like to say this in “defense” of Hudson and Smoltz, as well. Yes, the team showed some “life” yesterday in that thrilling come-back victory. And it was a pleasant respite from the team that had sleep-walked through the past few weeks. Pitchers, like anyone else, “reflect” the intensity of those around them. If the team wants the “real” Hudson, Smoltz et al to show up and give-their-all, then the other 8 need to give their “all”, as well.

By Thrillhouse44

September 6, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

Good to see the boys are going to fight to the end. Seems they have a never-say-die attitude. That’s a refreshing difference between them and this blog.

By Greg

September 6, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

I agree that it’s too little too late yesterday. But it’s important to finish the season on a high note. It will help us attract free agents for the coming season, if Liberty loosens the purse strings. It also might help us sign Mark Texeira. Also, the empty stadiums of the last few days might convince Liberty that they have to spend some money to protect the resale value of this non-core asset. God, I hate corporate owners. Everyone at Time-Warner is a blithering idiot. After all, they sold their company to AOL. I could have told them that was a bad idea. IDIOTS!

By Greg

September 6, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

I agree that it’s too little too late yesterday. But it’s important to finish the season on a high note. It will help us attract free agents for the coming season, if Liberty loosens the purse strings. It also might help us sign Mark Texeira. Also, the empty stadiums of the last few days might convince Liberty that they have to spend some money to protect the resale value of this non-core asset. God, I hate corporate owners. Everyone at Time-Warner is a blithering idiot. After all, they sold their company to AOL for dot com stock. I could have told them that was a bad idea. IDIOTS!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 6, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

Overlord,

I think that’s a stretch. It may have something to do with the fact that Chipper is preoccupied by the armlock he has around the neck of the guy who just got the game-winning three-run double. Just my two cents.

By Vinnie Boombotz

September 6, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

YEEEHAW!!! HERE COME THE BRAVES!!!

Not.

Now that you guys put it to the Phils, time for you to bow down to the NL East Champs, the New York Mets.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Overlord I think Chipper sees Tex as a challenger for his “alpha male” position. I don’t think Tex sees himself as a “challenger” but he is being thrust into that position by the fans and media. Regardless of the species, the alpha male can not be friends with the one who may take his place. Some might say it is a “guy” thing, but alpha females do not react well to what they perceive as challenges, either.

By Vinnie Boombotz

September 6, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

Chipper isn’t gay, and he thinks Tex is a little homo for his taste.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Yesterday win has any importance???

Are this braves still alive???

Phillies must hate us more than muts.

We are making more friends in the East, hehehe.

Stuart im sorry to tell you 16 and 6 wont do it, if the padres go 14-9 rest of the way (which is more than probable), we will need to go 19-3 to finish even with them. We are 6-2 against those guys, so it wouldnt be so bad to finish tied with them.

But lets face it, what are our chance to go 19-3? ZERO. We would probably go as you say, 16-6 at best and end the season 2 GB the WC.

By Thrillhouse44

September 6, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Any word on McCann’s contusion? How did it happen?

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Vinnie Boombutt Get lost!

By LeTwan Anthony

September 6, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

LeTwan’s pie post was deleted. No longer a pie blog.

By Will

September 6, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Overlord, You are right about the Padres and the Braves having to go 19-3 to finish. I was also thinking 19-3 or 20-2 is the only way to make the playoffs and there is no shot at all for that to happen. The 5.5 defecit is not near as big as the 5 teams in between the Braves and WC. Almost every team in front of the Braves lost last night, that is not gonna happen very often.

By KC

September 6, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Braves season is in all likelihood over. There is still the slightest glimmer of hope.

It would take a hell of a run, and some good luck to boot. In order to have any shot at winning the wild card, here’s what would have to happen…

The Braves must go at least 16-6 in their remaining 22 games (unlikely, but possible), and the D-Backs must play sub-500 ball in their remaining 21 games (slightly unlikely, but certainly possible). Also, the Phillies and Dodgers must play no better than 15-8 (probable… I doubt they’ll go 15-8, much less better). Forget about the Brewers and Rockies… they’re non-factors.

I say there’s every so slight glimmer of hope for the following reasons:

The Braves DO have the talent to go on that type of run. Seriously. The fact of the matter is that this Braves team is more talented than any of the teams in the Wild Card race right now. They have as good an offense as there is in the league, an excellent bullpen, 2 legit aces (though Hudson’s got to get back to pitching like one), Cormier’s been excellent, and Chuck James had a 3.55 ERA for the season before his shoulder started bothering him (at the end of Jul)… so we know he’s capable of pitching well.

This team DOES have the talent. But it would take having the team firing on ALL cylinders at one time… the offense has to heat up, James has to pitch more like he did in July, and Tim Hudson has to put this slump behind him immediately. If those things come together, this team IS capable of going on a 16-6 run. It’s not likely, but it is possible. Maybe… just maybe that win yesterday will spark such a run.

Also, it’s definitely not unthinkable that the D-Backs would finish with a sub-500 stretch. They’re 4-6 in their last 10, and have cooled off since that great run they had. Also, once again… I don’t think the Dodgers or Phillies have the talent (LA lacks offense, and Phili lacks pitching) to go on 15-8 or 16-7 run right now.

So it’s possible. It’s certainly not likely, and I’m not getting my hopes up… but it’s not quite time to abandon all hope just yet. Gotta start by sweeping the Nats.

By bruce

September 6, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

I say lets focus on sweeping the Nats for three and see where the Mets/Phils are on Sunday night. Keep our hope alive one game/series at a time, til the big E knocks the door down. Thanks, Bruce

By 22oz

September 6, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

If you go to Yahoo game photos, you can clearly see that Teixeria is trying to hump Chipper’s leg. I think i would get away too.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

“LeTwan” Pies may be out, but cow patties are still “in”. Witness “Vinnie’s” droppings.

By KC

September 6, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Overlord: Why are you talking about the Padres?? Sure, it’s possible that the Padres will stall and the D-Backs will overtake them… in which case the Padres, and not Arizona, leads the WC race… but right now Arizona is the target.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

I just saw some very different attitude from ARod and Jeter at homeplate when ARod hit a HR with Jeter on base.

By KC

September 6, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Personally, I hope the Mets gain a couple more games on the Phillies over the next few days. Maybe then we can catch them napping a but up at Shay next week.

By KC

September 6, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Meant to say… “napping a bit”.

By KC

September 6, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

OVERLORD: Very sorry… I’m an idiot. For some reason I thought the Padres won yesterday. You’re correct.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Im not sure how can anyone think braves can go anywhere but home if they go 16-6, man, they are 5.5 GB. if they go 16-6 they might pick up some 3.5 maybe 4.5, but never 5.5, not ever.

By KC

September 6, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Disregard my earlier post… or at least all the parts about the D-Backs leading the Wild Card, which of course, I was mistaken about.

The Padres need to play about .500 ball, or the D-Backs really need to choke in order for us to have any shot at the Wild Card.

By Mr. Kotter

September 6, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Vinie

Round up the rest of the sweathogs(NCZ, Anders,etc…) and report to the principal’s office. You are being expelled for being morons. Good luck at the hot dog stand.

By Lee in S. GA

September 6, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

I just saw some very different attitude from ARod and Jeter at homeplate when ARod hit a HR with Jeter on base.

I think that attitude comes from the fact that right now the Yankees feel like they ARE the team in the A.L. to beat to get to the World Series. They are back and will make the play-offs. Forget the teams with the best records. No team in the A.L. wants to face these guys in the post-season. Even the Red Sox have to be scared to death.

My worse night-mare come true would be another New York sub-way series. I will be pulling for anybody to knock those 2 teams out of the playoffs.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

I just cant swallow that we have a worse record than rockies and blue jays.

By Will

September 6, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

There is no point at all to argue about who the braves are chasing in the Wild Card. Right now they are chasing wins and lots of them.

By Mark

September 6, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

If Cox had any balls, he would start Diaz and platoon Andruw and Willie. It may sound crazy, but we don’t owe any more loyalty to Andruw. He batted in the cleanup spot for 2 months even though is average was .200. He not coming back anyway, so sit him down.

By BossLady

September 6, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

DOB and fellow bloggers this blog’s about music and an upcoming concert. My charity the Charles Warren Brain Tumor Foundation is having a concert, September 29th at the Mable Ampitheatre, $10 only, gates open at 10:30 am. Featured, Courtesy Murder, Ann August, Thee Crucials, LD and the Blind Dates, Barry Richman Band. It will be hosted by Captain Herb Emory.

I have not been on the blog since last week working on this project.

The Braves had a good game yesterday and I hope they enjoy a good end of season. I am just a braves fan and grateful they have accomplished this much as they have put up good numbers as a team and individuals.

We have a pretty good home team and I would not begrudge them if we are not in the playoffs. There are so many teams that do not enjoy the performances the Braves and the fans have enjoyed.

Go Braves!!!!!!!!

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

No problem KC, maybe in your mind you cant understand how this DBacks just keep winning, hahaha, they even beat Peavy. We need some of that heart that they are showing.

By Tootie Bird

September 6, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

GOOD MORNING VIET NAM!!! This just in: **Robert has been appointed this country’s Minister of Bad Will and Bulsheet. He is, as we speak, riding his donk out to the putrid paddies to spread the…word?

By ssiscribe

September 6, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

Real quick, folks, since I gotta run here in a bit, but in looking over the standings and the remaining schedules and so forth this year, here are my two-cents worth:

— Arizona definitely has cooled after its strong surge in late July and through most of August.

— San Diego, the current wild-card leader, is on pace to finish somewhere around 86-88 wins. That’s a critical swing because I think the Braves could hit 86, but 88 is going to be a heck of a stretch.

— If the Padres regress just a bit and finish 10 games over .500 (their season high, I believe, is 14 games over .500), then the Braves have a shot, albeit a slim one, because that puts the Pads at 86-76.

— If San Diego (or for that matter, Arizona, whoever doesn’t win the West) finishes with 86 wins, then the Braves gotta go 16-6 to tie.

— One figures the Braves will lose at least one in New York, at least one to the Brewers during the four-gamer here, at least one at Philly and at least one in Houston. That’s four losses right there. Win every other game, which is unlikely, and Atlanta finishes with 88 wins.

— If the Braves lose the four games I mentioned, they only can lose two more out of the remaining 18 to finish with 86 wins. Again, it’s a heck of a stretch to think this team that’s middled along for so long can do it, even if they are clicking on all cylinders.

My conclusion: Absolutely have to sweep the Nats this weekend. See what happens with the teams in front of you and reassess going to New York next week. If you don’t win all three against the Nats — who by the way have won five in a row — it’s a moot point.

And in reality, it’s probably moot anyway. We talked for so long about the Braves winning two out of three … doing that only brings the Braves to 85 wins, which barring a collapse from the Padres, D’Backs and Dodgers, won’t get it done.

And the Braves have only themselves to blame. But I’m sure they know that. All they can do at this point is try to put together a long winning streak — IF they swept the next two series, it would give them six in a row heading into next Thursday’s off day (not saying it will happen by any means; just saying if it were to happen) — and see where things stand there.

Heck of a win yesterday, though. At least it’s sparked a little thought of “what if” on here, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing after the gloom and doom of the past week. But the debate over who wants to hug who and who was not hugging who during the celebration is, in a word, dumb. Certainly there has to be something better to talk about this morning.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Mark

September 6, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

We basically need to go undefeated to have a chance at the playoffs. We can lose no more than 3 or 4 games. Even if we were to make it, we wouldn’t win the World Series.

The win was great yesterday. We need about 10 more to make up for all the games that we have let get away this season. That win made up for the loss in Florida in which Hudson pitched great and Wickman let it get away in the ninth.

In the grand scheme of things, all we did yesterday was avoid going 1-5 against our biggest rivals.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Mark i thought that the issue about cox having any balls was over…… 75% of us have agreed that he was long ago castrated.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

BossLady I live in Tn. and I am not in “traveling” condition, at present. Could you give us an address where we could send a small contribution?

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Overlord, KC, et al,

Here’s something from Jonah Keri about heart and all that BS deciding pennant races:

The teams with the most heart, guts and intestinal fortitude will be the ones that come out on top.

Distant cousins of momentum, these qualities are more likely to matter in a CAT scan than in a pennant race. Over then next few weeks, when a playoff contender wins a game, we’ll hear how they wanted it more, dug deep and found a way to win. When a team loses, we’ll hear whispers about its lack of heart, that they’re chokers who laid down when it mattered most.

We don’t even have to wait – it’s already happened. When the Mets recently saw their lead in the NL East start to dwindle, articles in New York papers and talk-show callers began questioning the Mets’ desire and Willie Randolph’s ability to motivate his team. Considering that the Mets just swept a big series against the Braves over the weekend, the truth can now be told: Team doctors performed gut-enhancement surgery on the entire roster and on the manager, with great results.

Given a long enough period of time, the best team tends to win out in baseball. But as the time frame shrinks to a few weeks, to a short playoff series, three-game set or even a single game, luck becomes a bigger and bigger factor. If a pitcher gets shelled in an important game or a batter strikes out in a crucial at-bat, don’t lower yourself to the level of the howling masses by calling him gutless or a choker. Though it may seem hard to accept, it’s probably just a case of random variance, otherwise known as bad, stinking luck.

By TampaBrave

September 6, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Here’s how I see this thing. To sustain any type of streak, Smoltz and Hudson both need to get an extra days rest so they can recharge for this stretch. Now is the time to throw caution to the wind and throw someone else out there for one start. What do we have to lose? We won yesterday but Harris has to vacate the leadoff spot. Escobar hits to all fields and has a good eye. He should bat leadoff. Diaz needs to be right between Chipper and Tex. Space it out a little.

We still play Milwaukee, NY and Philly three games, so we can potentially dent those teams on our way to catching San Diego and the Dodgers. The Padres and Dodgers have a tough schedule the rest of the way, including three against each other, so that’s possible.

Was it over when the German’s bombed Pearl Harbor?? We have to keep winning. Never say die.

By Anders

September 6, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

KC Hard to believe it was just a few short weeks ago I tried to warn you guys that if you didn’t get help from the Mets by beating other WC contenders instead of the Braves faithful hoping to to catch the Mets that you would be left rooting for the “Perfect Storm” scenario from teams outside your division. I just didn’t see it happening this early - but here you are. A few more wins during any of those games by the Mets gives the Braves a much better chance than they have now. Maybe you guys will remember this next season if it presents itself again. There’s no shame in the WC - Just ask the Yankees.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Arizona definitely has cooled after its strong surge in late July and through most of August.

Didn’t Pythagoras aka Run Differential clue us in on this?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 6, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

The Braves are good enough to win the Wild Card, but the rest of the contenders are not bad enough to give us the monumental collapse that it would take to lose it. Too little, too late.

By Ed in NC

September 6, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

The one comment I have not seen. I think Andruw has “Murphyitus”. Great player , but worn down from too many seasons of 150+ games. Whether this is from Bobby or AJ himself, his lack of production, along with out pitching problems has doomed this team.

I like and appreciate the things AJ has done for this team/franchise but it’s time to cut the cord and try to get an alternative (Jacque Jones?).

By TampaBrave

September 6, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

The worst thing you want to do is play these teams with nothing to lose. Washington and Florida are those teams left on our schedule. If the Brave’s butt cheeks tighten playing them, two things will happen: 1) we will lose and 2) No Chop Zone will get an erection. We can’t have any of those things so let’s go Braves. Get busy, concentrate, but have fun. No fun, no playoffs!!!

By Navigator

September 6, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

My perspective says opening day, when the team started with insufficient starting pitching. It carried right through the season, when no additions were made to fix the problem. It’s sad that this team made was carried through 13 division championships with a strong pitching staff, only to fall back into the lower division with hitting only. It reminds me of the 1960’s when Pittsburgh hit 300 as a team, only to finish near last in the National League cellar.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

sscribe I enjoy and appreciate your posts. They are always informative. But, your “generalized” scolding of those that have “discussed” the Chipper/Tex/celebration is hard to put a “finger” on. I discussed it with someone who brought it up, and I did so-I thought-in an adult manner. I hope you were refering to those children that threw in the “humping, etc.” references. Anyway, I would appreciate you being a little bit more specific in your critiques. Thank you.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

All you who think heart, guts or will determines pennant races or who wins in the playoffs:

Do you think that’s why you or other people you probably know are not major league baseball players—because they don’t have enough heart or guts or will? You really think there are people out there who are just as or more talented and hard-working than major league players but who didn’t make it because of their heart or guts or will? Because that’s what you are saying when you say all of that BS decides things.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

IF they swept the next two series, it would give them six in a row heading into next Thursday’s off day (not saying it will happen by any means; just saying if it were to happen) —

Let me think, 2 sweeps in a row, hhhmmmm…. how many series have the braves have done the last 2 years?, how many back to back sweeps last 2 years? I guess mention it is even DUMBER than anything that has been said all year. But even DUMBER than that is not being able to understand the IMPORTANCE of chemistry and that if 2 of the most important players in this team dont get along, 2008 could be in jeopardy also.

By DAP

September 6, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

well, ssiscribe certinly isnt getting a hug this morning after that! nice assesment of the rest of the season though, scribe. if 88 would win it, youve got to think about what if two or three more games had gone out way. just a few games, and we would all feel much better about this.

i was watching the cubs game last night, and i was thinking, as bad as our season has looked, we would be leading the central right now if we were in that division. dang that division is bad.

and why the heck are we reading into how chipper feels about tex from looking at a photgraph? i also noticed that diaz seems to be screaming a tthe voices in his head, and corky miller was in the middle of the celebration…although he only caught one inning. the team must really credit him for this win. c’mon guys, one snapshot doesnt mean anything. tex and chipper could have made out in the shower after that game for all we know.

By superadam

September 6, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

DOB

Has the average age of a rookie gone down in recent years. It seems like teams are rushing some of there talent to the big leagues. Like Jo-Jo or Kyle Davies, Salty etc…It seemed like when the run started in the early nineties that we had polished players when we brought them up Guys like Chipper and Javy. Guys like Frenchy are doing the job but I feel like I am watching him develop into the polished player which AAA should have developed him into. Is there a rush to get top talent to the bigs as compared to the early nineties?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 6, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Well, Shaun I don’t think your pythagorean rule always applies but I’m hoping you are right about the Braves and their “market correction” begins. This team is better than two games over .500.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

But even DUMBER than that is not being able to understand the IMPORTANCE of chemistry and that if 2 of the most important players in this team dont get along, 2008 could be in jeopardy also.

Really? Rolen and LaRussa reportedly didn’t get along during the Cards’ World Series run. Have you heard or read anything about the Bronx Zoo Yankees? If you want to go way back, how about the early 1900s Cubs? Chemistry’s not as important as a lot of other things.

By Alan

September 6, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Huddy looks done in as does Smoltz at times. Too much for two to carry this team.

JS needs to find two starters to supplement those two and that’s assuming that Smoltz can carry on as he has. I think it’s maybe time to consider a return to the pen for him, preferably as a closer.

Let Andruw go, give Frenchy a chance in CF and make sure that Escobar stays somehow.

Harris is worth another shot and Diaz is a must. Here’s hoping that Edgar is fit for next year too. But it’s all going to come down to pitching.

By J.D.. Phillips

September 6, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Chemistry is overrated. That is Cox’s trouble. He wants everything to run like “Sesame Street”.

By Adolph Hitler

September 6, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave We did not bomb Pearl Harbor. Damn, we get blamed for everything.

By TampaBrave

September 6, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Shaun

That crap is such BS. Redundant, I know, but apropos. The best teams will have the guys with heart. Loosely translated, they have talent and a dedicated desire to win. All teams have talent. Not all teams ,nor the individuals on those teams have the “heart” to forge ahead and win.

By Braveheart

September 6, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Just found something new and cool on baseball-reference.com

They have updated their website to include minor league stats for the past 16 seasons. Love it. Check it out:

Braves minor league stats

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Shaun im not saying that if a teams has lots of heart it will automatically win. “Luck” is a factor for almost everything, but you have to put something else, passion, you have to work harder if things are not going your way. If i see that braves cant bunt a ball and advance a runner in may and then it happens 10 times in june and then it is still august and i see the same, i can say with an accuracy of 90% that the braves are not putting enough hard work in it, simple, missing 10 out of 14 bunt attemps is not bad luck man, it just shows they go to batting practice and dont pay attention to it.

Leaving the bases loaded or runners in scoring position with less than 2 outs some 20 times in a single month is not bad luck pal. It just shows they dont practice what to do and how to bring at least a run home, man at least one…….. bad luck????? if it was bad luck, their luck is so bad that they would all be dead by now.

By Jimmy Valvomit

September 6, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

**DON’T EVER THROW UP! DON’T EVER THROW UP!

By 22oz

September 6, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

So I am a dumb child for making fun of an absolutely idiotic discussion. My bad, no more jokes.

By See ya Wickman

September 6, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

The exact day the braves began to tank was the day the found out Gonzalez was out for the year. They were the best team in baseball with the best bullpen in baseball and on this day the season ended.

By rammerjammer

September 6, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Some people complain that this team has no emotion, then Tex shows emotion and he gets ripped! Brother.

I hope those Renteria for Garland talks will be resurrected this winter.

Would think the Sox would want more than Edgar…probably a pitching prospect. Or maybe Yuni instead of Edgar. Yikes.

Garland is signed through 2008…believe he’s owed $12 mil next season, or about twice what Edgar makes. But that’s something to consider, with Tex also a free agent after 08.

But Garland’s only 27, pretty durable, a Hudsonesque sinkerballer who should do quite well in the NL. Maybe not an ace, but a 2-3 guy and well worth Edgar and a prospect.

By ssiscribe

September 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Let me think, 2 sweeps in a row, hhhmmmm…. how many series have the braves have done the last 2 years?, how many back to back sweeps last 2 years? I guess mention it is even DUMBER than anything that has been said all year. But even DUMBER than that is not being able to understand the IMPORTANCE of chemistry and that if 2 of the most important players in this team dont get along, 2008 could be in jeopardy also.

No, Overlord, it certainly is not dumber than anything that has been said all year, considering I used the word “if” and the phrase “(not saying it will happen by any means; just saying if it were to happen).” Now, had I said it would happen, that wouldn’t be dumb … that would be just plain stupid and silly, considering there is nothing that indicates that is going to happen.

I request you read the post again. I used the word if and quantified it with the fact I’m not saying it will happen. How many back-to-back series have the Braves swept the past two years? I don’t know, and don’t have the time to look it up right now. It’s a moot point, anyway.

My point, for those of you who missed it, is it will take a tremendous finish by the Braves to make the playoffs, and putting together a long winning streak is just about the only way to make that happen. How is that so hard to understand? They have 22 games left. They have to win at least 16 and probably more to get in, so they have to string some together. I point that out and it’s characterized as dumb? Whatever.

As for the rest of my post, I stand by what I said. It is my opinion that arguing over who is hugging who is dumb, and it’s nothing more than my opinion.

Now if you will excuse me, I shall exit this silliness and do something a little more worthwhile with my time and efforts.

Peace.

—30—

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

OK Shaun im not sure what sport are you watching. chemistry is not important, manager is not important, they only account for 10 wins a year, not having an idea of how to bunt is not important, heart and passion is not important.

In order for me to get to know some baseball, sports and life, could you tell me, what would be important that the braves are missing?

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

22OZ Sorry for my off-hand reference that “caught” you in the sweep. Yours was “rough” humor that I am as guilty of as anyone else. No, my bad.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave,

So all teams have equal talent and equal luck?

What kind of argument is that? That’s like saying I have wealth and Bill Gates has wealth. Wealth is a relative term just like talent.

And you’re telling me that players ignore or overlook the incentives to perform well on a grand stage because their desire is not there? These are players who’ve had to strive their whole lives to be better than everyone else throughout and have succeeded. You’re telling me that players who have dedicated themselves because they know their are hundreds of guys out there just waiting to take their jobs, these guys don’t have desire to play hard and try to win?

By TampaBrave

September 6, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Alan

To put Frenchy in right would be a serious mis-allocation of resources. He doesn’t have the feet required and is a little slow on his move backward when the ball is hit over his head. A lot of people thought Murph was a great CF. I thought he was adequate because of his speed. Same idea here. Put your cannon in right.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Shaun what i have read about the Bronx Zoo Yankees is that they have not won the WS since 2000, how and why a team that year in and year out looks like the allstar team does not win it all??? Bad luck? I wonder if chemistry has anything to do with it.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

We, in all our un-worthwhile silliness stand corrected, I guess.

By Ari Gold

September 6, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Paladin just told 22oz let’s hug it out beeoch.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Overlord,

It’s not all bad luck. It’s also talent and random variation (even good players/teams are going to fail quite often) and all sorts of factors that have nothing to do with hard work or heart or desire.

You really think the Braves don’t have a desire to get bunts down, etc. or a desire to practice bunting? I guess it’s possible, but I just have a very hard time believing that. I have a hard time believing that athletes who have worked hard their whole lives to get where they are and realize hundreds of guys are just waiting to take their place just get to the majors and don’t give a rat’s behind about trying to win.

To me it’s obviously more likely that talent, random variances and luck are much more of a factor than desire and hard work. With all the incentives that players have to try to win and win and the disincentive they have to lose and not try, I just don’t think it’s very likely that even a minute percentage of players just don’t care to win or try to win.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

ssiscribe your point of view will be treated with respect as long as you do the same for others opinions.

Maybe im talking about love between players and hughs and affairs because there really is not much to talk about this season anyway.

I brought up the tex and chipper stuff again, because this is about the 4th time i see something that tells me chipper is not comfortable with tex presence. JUST A COMMENT.

People that think my comment is important talk about it, the people that dont, will ignore my posts. The ones that think i post dumb stuff will not read read my posts….. what could be easier than that???

By gotigers72

September 6, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

IMO McDowell should be canned. I’m certainly not advocating that Leo should be brought back, but McDowell should be canned.

My reasoning is this. In two years as pitching coach, the younger pitchers [Chuck, Davies, etc.] have shown no improvement. They continue to make the SAME fundamental mistakes. They pitch up in the zone, pitch behind in the count too much, walk too many, don’t pitch to the corners. A GOOD pitching coach would be able to teach how to do those fundamental things OVER A TWO YEAR PERIOD. Can McDowell and get somebody in here with a reputation for being able to TEACH young pitchers how to pitch.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

ssiscribe one more thing…….PEACE pal.

By Remow

September 6, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Just a passing along a comment of historical interest. Leo did get to work with 3 hall of fame pitchers. But, he was not the only pitching coach in the modern era to have great pitchers. The Orioles in 1971 had 4 20 game winners. Dave McNally won 21 Mike Cuellar won 20 Jim Palmer won 20 Pat Dobson won 20.

Now that is a pitching staff.

Go Braves!

By 22oz

September 6, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

No problem, Paladin.

Now, on to more “silliness”: Estimating how many wins are neccesary for the Braves to get into the postseason. Trying to estimate how many games the Braves need to win, and then trying to figure out how many games FIVE OTHER TEAMS will lose is as pointless as asking Bobby Cox a tough question. Yesterday’s win was very uplifting, and it left the fans with the tiniest shred of hope, so enjoy the ride! Speculation and calculation is meaningless at this point with this highly unpredictable team.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Overlord,

What are the Braves missing? Enough talented pitchers and a normal Andruw Jones.

Talent matters most. I never said other stuff doesn’t matter but talent is the biggest factor in a team winning and losing.

Also, I’m talking about the Yankees of the late ’70s. There are a number of great teams in baseball history who reportedly did not get along. ’70s Yankees, ’70s A’s, early 1900s Cubs.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Yes, Gonzo departure to DL may look like the point of disaster, the outcome of the season would have been better with him around as we lost lots of game that if he was around, we would have won, but in the end, the result would be he would be as overused as everybody else and who knows……. but i guess those 5-6 wins we are missing now, we wouldnt be missing.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Ari I don’t hug anyone with a hairy back, except Grinch. :>)

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave, I think you meant “to put Frenchy in center,” not right, correct?

Braves tend to agree with you, if that’s the case, based on conversations I’ve had in the past couple weeks. I specifically wanted to know if Frenchy would be a serious candidate to move to CF if Andruw isn’t re-signed (and frankly, I don’t think he will be re-signed, nor should he unless it’s $12 mill a year or less, which ain’t gonna happen).

I was told while they believe Frenchy could play CF, it’s not ideal. I think they’ll try to trade for or sign a CF, and Brandon Jones will compete for the LF job (Diaz could be fourth outfielder or traded in that case, but that’s getting way ahead of ourselves. Personally, I think Diaz would be of more value to Braves than what they’d get in return for him. I’d keep him, and use Frenchy as the backup CF, moving B. Jones or Diaz to right when you need a backup CF.)

I know Mike Cameron is 34 and isn’t the player he once was, but he’s still good, and the Braves could probably sign him to a short contract at a modest salary. I know he and his wife want to move back to Atlanta full-time.

If you look at his numbers this season, even in a down year for Cameron in terms of OBP and average, they’re better overall numbers than Andruw’s at half the price $7 mill this season), and his D is still strong.

Cameron’s hitting .251 with a .332 OBP and .447 slugging (.268/.355/.482 last season, .273/.342/.477 in 2005).

He’s got 32 doubles, six triples, 19 homers, 15 stolen bases, and to me the 74 RBIs are also better than Andruw’s 84, given where Andruw hit in the Braves’ order during the first half.

Again, they’ll be other candidates, but just giving you Cameron as a possible candidate. He’ll probably be had for one-half to one-third of Andruw’s price next season.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Overlord,

But since you brought up the recent Yankees teams, have you noticed they stopped winning championships when their pitching talent declined or when they started playing teams with better power pitchers? I honestly think it’s unlikely chemistry is the culprit, given that all kinds of great teams won with no chemistry and that we can basically trace their “decline” to when their pitching stopped being as good as it once was.

I think the Yankees haven’t won in a while because their pitching hasn’t been good enough, they’ve run into teams with more and better power pitching, flukes that happen over a small sample of games and bad luck. If chemistry is a factor I certainly don’t think it has anywhere near the impact of any of the aforementioned factors.

By Jim Staudt

September 6, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Maybe Bobby got the word from race-baiters Jesse and Al that it would be in his best interest to keep the Braves’ only African-American in the lineup? As for the crappy treatment of Diaz, Cox did the same thing to Ryan Klesko back in the 90’s. Bobby would give Ryan an occasional “test” against a lefty, but unless he’d go 4-5 with 3 homers it’d be right back to the platoon the next day. Cox may be a good manager, but his stubbornness and one-track-mindedness is what has kept, and will keep, him from being a great one.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Superadam, no question about it. In this era, the Braves and many, probably most, other teams are bringing up rookies now who might not be ready yet.

It’s situation created simply by self-imposed payroll restrictions, unwritten edicts from MLB to keep payrolls from blowing up, and some mid-market, and even large-market, teams who see teams winning with reduced payrolls and owners who say, why can’t we do that?

So teams are saving money by incorporating more of their own prospects into the mix, sometimes when they’re ready, sometimes before they’re ready. It’s a trend that will continue, too, with the escalating price of top-tier veteran talent.

By Thrillhouse44

September 6, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

DOB, how hard will the Yanks be shopping Damon this winter? I’m not a fan of his and wouldn’t want him on this team, but would the Braves be interested in him?

By Lady Luck

September 6, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

We are all just random variations of random variations who were random variations of other random variations who of course randomly were random variations of the random variations of other random variations.

How lucky of a random variation one is depends upon the luck of the random variation who gave randomly gave birth to one’s random variance self.

Perhaps, Kansas sang Shaun’s feeling best. All we are is dust in the wind. All we are is dust in the wind. Dust in the wind. Everything is dust in the wind. Everything is dust in the wind. The wind.

Is that true? Dunno. Would ask Bob Dylan but he would probably say The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind, The answer is blowin’ in the wind.

By ssiscribe

September 6, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Overlord, no worries on this end of things. It’s all good. If you feel I disrespected you with my response, I certainly will apologize for that, as it is my take never to disrespect somebody for expressing their opinion. I spent far, far too long in the writing biz to look down on somebody for their opinion, since I spent so long offering mine to the masses.

And while I think chemistry between two stars can be overrated, chemistry as a whole is somewhat important. It makes life a heck of a lot easier if the two big guns on a team are getting along. If you’re seeing what could be a rift between Chipper and Tex, I respect your opinion and your observation. I haven’t seen any evidence of it, but again, that’s just my take, my opinion. I respect what you say you see and gladly take it into consideration.

With that said, the lunch hour is at hand, then duty calls. Enjoy the afternoon, denizens.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Shaun, i dont think braves have talent problems (just SP). Random variation would be a factor i will accept as one of the factors, soriano, hudson, jeff, brian and AJ come to mind. Luck is something that is not an excuse for a sport that has 162 games, bad luck will not be the difference between 100 and 85…..

Ill respect your opinion, i just think about the desire and passion stuff when i watch other teams play (win or lose), yankees, angels, redsox, DBacks, muts, phillies, reds.

We all know braves play and train hard, it is a must in order to be in the bigs, but, thats all they do….. be in the bigs, they just lost so many games that were not supposed to lose that its unbelievable, trying harder will not make you win, but will put you in a position to do so, how come there is a feeling in the air since 1 month ago with 30% of the season to play, that we were not going anywhere?

It was there in front of your eyes. Something missing, and it has been there almost the whole season. Everybody felt it months ago. Come on, they couldnt pick a freaking game to a mediocre muts team for 3 months…….3.5 GB half of the season and recently it just got worse.

By mr baseball

September 6, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

For all the premature speculators here, please, no more if this or what if that UNTIL the Braves sweep the mighty Nationals this weekend. If the Braves sweep, which given their past performance this season is HIGHLY unlikely, then speculate away. If not, accept that it’s another year without post-season baseball in Atlanta, and all the Braves accomplished yesterday was to deal the Phillies’ post-season hopes a potentially fatal blow.

Which ex-Braves pitchers will we be rooting for in the playoffs? Glavine & Sosa? Marquis? Maddux? Cruz? I’m guessing No, No, No, Yes, Who.

By sykojohnny

September 6, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

The season was prolonged by the lusy start by Philadelphia and the Mets not playing up to their capabilities. When the Braves lost 6 of 7 to the Reds, when they would normally have been starting their stretch run, it was over.

By sykojohnny

September 6, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

The season was prolonged by the lousy start by Philadelphia and the Mets not playing up to their capabilities. When the Braves lost 6 of 7 to the Reds, when they would normally have been starting their stretch run, it was over.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Damon has been around-the-horn more than a Clipper ship. The Braves don’t need a reclamation project or another prima donna; they need a young(hopefully), hustling and hitting CF. Damon ain’t that!

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

sscribe Thank you for a classy post. I hope you abide well until your return.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun how do you like the WC chances if they go 16-6? I think anything but 19-3 wont be enough and i hard to believe we will accomplish that.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

DOB sorry to interrupt you inspiration, but, whats the chance for edgar to play tomorrow. Any news on Dotel? I can find an update on his arms, weeks old everywhere.

By Tootie Bird

September 6, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

Lady Luck The answer may be blowing in the wind, but that is not what’s blowing out your tailpipe. Can you say that on the blog? And to a “Lady”?

By Lee in S. GA

September 6, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Mike Cameron as DOB pointed out is the leading candidate to fill our CF needs. Put in simpler terms, Cameron is one of the CHEAPEST available CF’s and that fits the Braves to a tee. Not a big fan of his but after A.J.’s year I would welcome him.

By Lady Luck

September 6, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Tootie, I thought you were really cute on The Facts of Life. But of course I thought Natalie was gorgeous as well. No woman was more of a delicate feminine flower than Jo. If I could ever steal Charlotte Rae away from Mr. Drummond, I would have.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Overlord,

WC is a long shot at this point. But stranger things have happened. I think they’ll go on a run at some point but it probably won’t be enough.

By mr baseball

September 6, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

On this whole chemistry thing, all of you who are on opposite sides with Shaun are also on the wrong side from a historical standpoint. I might buy into the idea that team chemistry actually means something in baseball if there was any factual basis to it.

Let’s see, we have the Charles O. Finley A’s of the early ’70s; the Bronx is Burning Yankees; the Steve Garvey-era Dodgers; the Jim Palmer-era Orioles; the early ’80s Phitin’ Phillies; the Bash Brothers A’s; the mercenary Blue Jays and first edition Marlins; the Guillen/Pierzynski White Soz. I’m sure there are others I’ve omitted.

For every We Are Family Pirates and Band of Idiots Red Sox, there are a whole lot more championship teams where chemistry is just a college class that maybe 2 players passed. In sports like football & basketball, chemistry actually matters for obvious reason. In baseball, which is a far more individual sport, it doesn’t.

Leadership is in the same category as a bogus factor in impacting success. The one player who is given more credit than any other for the Braves’ success in the early ’90s is Terry Pendleton. During his three years as a starter (not counting the strike year) and unsuccessful return as an overweight and under-producing pinch-hitter, the Braves were the losers in 3 World Series and 1 NLCS. The one year he spent entirely out of Atlanta, the Braves won their only World Series. So much for Pendleton’s irreplaceable leadership.

By J-School Dropout

September 6, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Great blog. Isn’t it wonderful doing more work for the same money? BTW, do the Braves have a shot at signing Rowand? I believe he’s an FA in the fall, and I’m impressed with his game. Great glove. Good bat. Seems to have a lot of heart. Could be the spark plug we need once AJ hits the bricks.

By Vegas Oddsmaker

September 6, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

I have the Braves going 11-11 for the remainder of the season.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 6, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Shaun, that is exactly what I’m saying. You don’t know people who are smart and talented but have never amounted to anything or at the very least their full potential. A lot of those people fail to reach their potential because they are lazy and lack desire. I know you have got to be kidding. Are you honestly going to say you haven’t seen baseball players that have million dollar talent but a penny brain or work ethic. C’mon, man!

By Eye in the Sky

September 6, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Woodcrap appeared, apparently, to the powers-that-be, to be a “good” pickup and one that could “help” the team. Then, they were going to show everyone that they were right. Wrong! I hope their judgment on Cameron(if that is who they decide to go with)is better. BTW, everybody talks about him coming “cheap”. Ever hear, “you get what you pay for”? Anyway, I would rather them replace from within. No, I don’t mean Frenchy or anyone presently on the ML roster.

By DAP

September 6, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

overlord do YOU need a hug? is that what all this is really about? here’s one for you buddy! hug thats a cyber hug.

more seriously, i think ive seen what you have. i dont think the celebration is an indication of anything, what i think is that chipper is just a real guy. hes not going to pretend to be your best friend if hes just met you, and tex has been on the team a month. hes still not really one of them. but i dont think chipper has a problem with him, hes just not gonna act like they are best buds, cause they arent. i think chipper is glad to have him on the team.

tex on the other hand, probably idolozes chipper. hes young enough to have looked up to chipper for a long time before he made it to the majors.

chipper is a team player, and i dont see any way he thinks tex is going to steal his braves glory. cause that aint gonna happen.

By Lew

September 6, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Anders-Damn, Dude. When are you gonna give up on this WC thing? Just how in the living hell do you concentrate on the Wild Card? You have yet to answer that question-not just to my satisfaction, but at all. Do you, perhaps, lose a game intentionally? It is still unclear.

I’ve tried to tell you time and again, that what a team should do is to win every game they can and let the chips fall where they may. THAT’S what you concentrate on. Saying that any team should “go for” or “concentrate” on the Wild Card is the dumbest, emptiest, most meaningless concept a fan (or Team) could possibly have. IT MEANS NOTHING and it’s about time you figured that out.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best),

Sure there are people out there who don’t reach their potential because they lack desire but MLB is something different. If a player lacks desire, chances are he’s not going be a top high school player, then in some cases a top college player, then make it through a few years as a good minor league player then hang in the big leagues long enough to get significant playing time. What are the chances a lazy player with no desire gets through all these filters? Probably very slim.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Lew, that kind of personal attack will not be tolerated (he says, unable to keep a straight face or resist chuckling over the pony-tailed Vermont oldster’s passion).

I agree with you: How do you “focus” on the wild card> Braves can only focus on one thing, and that’s winning. Every game. They have to lose no more than five or so more games to have any shot at all, and even then it’ll take a little help from other teams.

But it ain’t over just yet. They do have nine of their next 12 games against the Nationals and Marlins, and a head-to-head three-gamer next week against the suddenly Delgado-less Mets.

Hey, Braves are realistic about this. There’s very little chance, and none if they play like they have for past few weeks. But after yesterday, you just never know. You … just … never … know….

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 6, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Okay, Shaun, you are a reasonable man so listen to some reason. You cited some teams that had a plethora of internal turmoil but won anyway. Those teams you cited had enormous talent and for all those teams you mentioned I can give you ten times more teams that we close to if not as talented and didn’t win.

Here are some examples of teams with chemistry and heart and how that along with talent helped them win. Were the Astros one of the four best teams in the NL the years they went to the playoffs? No. Were the Astros even better than the Cardinals the year they went to the World Series? No.

What about the ‘05 White Sox? Yes, they had great pitching but their offense wasn’t very good. They beat two teams in the Red Sox and Angles on their way to the WS that were more talented than they were. I present to you the ‘03 Marlins. You don’t really think that team was more talented than those Yankees do you? But, they wanted it more. They were a reflection of their manager, Jack McKeon, and played the game hard and gritty.

Even the Braves teams of ‘91 and ‘92 are good examples. Despite great starting pitching those teams weren’t more talented than either of those Pirates teams, but they beat them both times in the NLCS. The Braves were more talented than the Twins in ‘91 but still lost.

The Braves in 2000 were not a better team than the Mets (as much as that pains me to say). Yet, the Braves won the division and in the end won it handedly. Yes, the Mets wound up going to the WS but they didn’t beat the Braves to get there.

Heart, determination, chemistry, and passion can never be underestimated. You need another example of that. See David Eckstein.

By Tootie Bird

September 6, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Warning on **Lady Luck’s” t-shirt: “I have gas and I know how to use it!”

By Lew

September 6, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

DOB-You’re absolutely right-there is small chance. However, what many fail to realize is that you can ALWAYS play for pride, if nothing else. I, for one, enjoyed yesterday’s game-not because I think it will lead to a 15-1 run and a playoff berth (though it ain’t over til it’s over and the Mets just lost DelGado for 7-10 days), but because it was just plain exciting. It got my blood pumping and was great to see excitement from the team. It was wonderful from a pure baseball standpoint, if nothing else. We all got to see something, that as you pointed out, happened once all season long in MLB. That’s baseball and that’s what it’s all about.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

DAP thanks fot the hug, i really needed that (LOL). I guess you are right on your post. I was just curious of others opinions. Glad you posted about it.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Eye in Sky, how can you compare Woodward with Cameron? Check out Woodward’s numbers in his last couple of years before the Braves inexplicably decided that shoulder surgery would have solved his problems and that he’d be a solid bench player.

Cameron’s numbers are still decent, and he can go get it in center still, at 34.

Rowand’s obviously a much better player and better option, but he’ll also cost a helluva lot more and command a much longer contract. Don’t know if Braves would or should allocate that much to filling CF when they clearly need another quality starting pitcher. Not unless payroll’s going up more than I think it’s going up.

And by the way, Eye, who are you proposing “from within” to fill CF if not someone on current 40-man? I’ve been told by several Braves people that Brandon Jones is NOT a center field option, at least not for forseeable future. He’s corner outfielder, and that’s where he’ll compete for a job in spring. Not CF.

No other Braves OFs who aren’t on 40-man are considered major league-ready, and they’re not going to put Lillibridge in CF next season, barring some amazing fall/spring that nobody is expecting from him. Don’t even know if they plan to give him a shot in OF this soon, haven’t heard they are planning on that.

Gregor Blanco hit .282 with 18 doubles, 5 triples, 3 homers and 35 RBIs in 124 games at Richmond this season, and was caught in 18 of 41 stolen-base attempts. He’s on the 40-man, by the way, just in case that’s who you had in mind.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Overlord, I have no idea what that means, your comment to me, “sorry to interrupt you inspiration.”

To answer your question, Dotel still not close to returning, according to the powers that be. he’s not progressed well.

Edgar could be activated Friday, but neither Braves nor him was ready to commit to saying he would be activated. He looks fine to me, said he feels much better than last time he came off DL.

I think he’ll be activated, if not Friday then during this weekend series. But that’s just a somewhat educated guess.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Thrillhouse, McCann did it running the bases. They use “contusion” for so many injuries. McCann said he’ll be fine, but he also had a guy take him to his car in a golf cart after the game, so we’ll see Friday.

And no, I don’t think Braves will pursue Damon.

By TampaBrave

September 6, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for correcting me on Frenchy.

Question to you because I am not privy to the structure of modern day contracts. Could management not structure contracts based on performance, meaning pay a base salary of say 10 million, plus bonuses for exceeding benchmarks for AVG., RBIs, Slugging percentage and subtracting for strikeouts and LOB? Is this something that could never be achieved because of the player’s association? Would be perfect for Andruw. Would give him incentive to improve in his deficient areas.

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 6, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Lew, you remember when the braves were good? Would losing lets say chipper for 7-10 days put their division run in jepordy? I think not. I don’t think that amount of time will affect them that much. Good teams carry on without a key component and find a way to win.

By Lew

September 6, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

DOB-Do you think the Braves will try someone like Blanco, or go get a CF from outside the organization? I still like Francoeur over there, myself, but several have mentioned (and I don’t really disagree) that he is more valuable in right. Thoughts?

By 22oz

September 6, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know the fate of Bob Wickman?

By Thrillhouse44

September 6, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the answers, DOB.

Hopefully the Braves stay away from Damon and hopefully B-Mac gets well soon. He needs a bionic brace for his ankles.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best),

Sample-size, my friend. You don’t have to be the better or more talented team to win a five- or seven-game series in baseball.

I know it’s an assumption on my part but I don’t think it’s too big a stretch to assume everyone in the majors is trying very hard to win for precisely the reasons I mentioned before. Lazy players with no desire, heart, determination, and all that probably won’t make it through high school, college (in some cases) and minor league ball and don’t earn significant playing time in the big leagues.

It’s hard for me to believe the Cardinals won because they had more heart, determination, chemistry, passion, whatever than Jim Leyland’s Tigers. The team that played better over those games won.

By 22oz

September 6, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Paladin, i don’t have a hairy back ;)

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Lew, that kind of personal attack on Anders will not be tolerated (he says, unable to keep a straight face or resist chuckling over the pony-tailed Vermont oldster’s passion).

I agree with you: How do you “focus” on the wild card? Braves can only focus on one thing, and that’s winning. Every game. They have to lose no more than five or so more games to have any shot at all, and even then it’ll take a little help from other teams.

But it ain’t over just yet. They do have nine of their next 12 games against the Nationals and Marlins, and a head-to-head three-gamer next week against the suddenly Delgado-less Mets.

Hey, Braves are realistic about this. There’s very little chance, and none if they play like they have for past few weeks. But after yesterday, you just never know. You … just … never … know….

By BossLady

September 6, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Sure Paladin, thanks for asking. Charles Warren Brain Tumor Awareness P O Box 298, Douglasville, Ga.30133 www.charleswarrenfoundation.org or awareness@charleswarrenfoundation.com

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Sorry DOB my comment was only used because you were inspired talking about something different that had nothing to do with my questions. Didnt mean to confuse you.

Thanks for the answer.

Hope you are right cause renteria is a must for the imposible to be done (win 19 of 22).

By Lew

September 6, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

ChopZone-I only mentioned it as an example of anything can happen. No, at this point I don’t see the Mets not winning the division and I didn’t mean to imply that the loss of DelGado would cause their demise. As long as they get pitching performances from Maine and Pelfrey like they did against the Braves last weekend, I don’t see anyone in the division overtaking them. The sweep of the Braves wrote an end to that, I’m afraid. The playoffs are, however, another story altogether. The West has a lot of frontline pitching and in a 5 game series, that may well be the telling point. How’s THAT for honesty and realism?

By TampaBrave

September 6, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

SHAUN

You are the Terminator. You are a walking hard drive and that’s great, but you can’t feel the human emotions that go into people’s daily lives. So obviously, you cannot explain what you don’t understand.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

For those who might not have noticed, Washington is 5-0 with a 2.20 ERA in August. Yikes.

Of course, those wins are at home vs. San Fran and Florida. But still, they’re 5-0 with a 2.20 ERA.

By KC

September 6, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

DOB: “But it ain’t over just yet. They do have nine of their next 12 games against the Nationals and Marlins, and a head-to-head three-gamer next week against the suddenly Delgado-less Mets.”

“Hey, Braves are realistic about this. There’s very little chance, and none if they play like they have for past few weeks. But after yesterday, you just never know. You … just … never … know….”

Very Well said! That about sums it up. They’ve got to play out of minds, and hope for the best out west. Not at all likely, but not quite over with just yet.

By Robert Gene Lee

September 6, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Until you get an owner who will spend money on team we will continue to slide down the path of mediocrity. Can you say Buddy Carlisle,Lance Cormier,Oscar Villeral,and Timmy Hudson?

By NO CHOP ZONE

September 6, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

I can work with that LEW. I know hindsight is 20/20 but do you think the trade for tex should have been made? I thought the braves would go after pitching since they weren’t getting production from their 3-4-5 starters. What they gave up for Tex and Dotel may be felt for years to come.

By The Terminator

September 6, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Give me your address? I need someone to interface with.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave,

Contrary to what you think, I do believe major league baseball players have emotions and all that. But I think they all have emotions and desire and all of that. I think talent is what wins out. I don’t believe one player wants to win significantly more than another player, so therefore I don’t think desire is the determining factor in pennant races.

By Renegator

September 6, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Any word on Wickman? Are his 10 days up? Did we just cut him or did he go to another team? I haven’t heard anything about him since he was dfa’d.

By Kentavo

September 6, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Yesterday’s game was incredibly exciting. Having said that, I wouldn’t get too excited about the rest of the season. The Braves have demonstrated that they don’t play well vs. sub.500 teams so……. I’d look for it being a rough road against a tough Washington team, with more of the offensive malaise lingering. And they usually fare terribly against young pitchers they’ve never seen before.

By Kentavo

September 6, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Yesterday’s game was incredibly exciting. Having said that, I wouldn’t get too excited about the rest of the season. The Braves have demonstrated that they don’t play well vs. sub.500 teams so……. I’d look for it being a rough road against a tough Washington team, with more of the offensive malaise lingering. And they usually fare terribly against young pitchers they’ve never seen before.

By Mister Spock

September 6, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

Captain Tampa Kirk, what is this thing you humans call emotion?

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

TampaBraves, sure it could be done, if the player’s willing to take an incentive-based contract. But Andruw, with Boras as his agent, will get at least one or two big offers that aren’t incentive-based, I’d be willing to wager. And if you’re a veteran player who’s only 30, why would you turn down guaranteed money for incentive-based deal, unless you really, really wanted to stay somewhere.

Pay-for-play is a nice concept, in theory, but doesn’t usually apply to veterans in supposed prime of their careers (even if Andruw’s an old 30, he’s still 30, and coming off a huge contract. I just think Boras will be able to talk some team into giving him at least $15 mill a year, if not the $20 mill a year or more he’d like to get him).

By AZBravoFan

September 6, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

What does that mean: “He feels much better than last time he came off the DL?” Wasn’t he supposedly pain free the last time he came off? Didn’t they wait an extra day just to make sure he was ready? How can you feel better than “pain-free”?

By Joe Schmoe

September 6, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

One word: Awesome…

Keith Law: (2:13 PM ET ) I need to see Jordan Schafer, but one front office guy whose evaluations I really trust told me he thinks Schafer is a potential Grady Sizemore. That’s pretty damn good.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 6, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Shaun, some guys have enough talent to get through high school and college and even the minors sometimes. Their talent overcomes their laziness or lack of preperation or true desire. But, once they get to the majors and almost everybody is as good as they are or close to it, it becomes difficult. We all have seen athletes who make it look easy on lesser levels and then when they get to the Show they can’t live up to the hype. They don’t want to put that extra work in because they haven’t had to before.

As you said, MLB is different and some guys don’t have thoe heart and desire to do what it takes to stay on level with everyone else. It is no differenet than the kid who breezed through high school and everything came easy to him as far as learning was concerene but then he got to college and struggled because college is a whole other world. That same kid who never cracked open a book in high school yet recieved As and Bs finds himself doing the same thing in college but instead of As and Bs he is getting Cs and Ds.

By Cptn. Kirk

September 6, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Emotion is what happens when I spot a beautiful female on a distant planet and suddenly feel the urge to bed her. Of course, I have Scotty beam me up right at the apex of our lovemaking. Keeps em wanting to come back for more and no child support payments. The down side is the cleaning crew for the transporter room on the Enterprise keep requesting transfers.

By Moses

September 6, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Pharaoh,

Let Matt Diaz go

By TennesseePaul

September 6, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

I’d say the only bad thing about the win yesterday is it came right before an off day. I’d loved it if they could have carried that momentum right into another game. Hopefully they can keep it pumped up for the next 13 games and go nuts.

Will the Teixeira trade be felt for years to come? That’s impossible to say at this moment. Only 1 of the players traded for Teixeira is in the majors and the rest are at least a year or more away. Reading the reports of the trade, some have projected Harrison to be a 4th starter at best… which is probably more than JoJo will ever be, but can any team really regret trading a 4th starter while he was still a year away from the majors? The one pitcher that got the most raves from the projections was that Rookie ball kid… and again, they projected him to be a set up man in the majors. Elvis Andrus will be missed. By me at least, for not being able to screem for Elvis. I mean, c’mon, that’s just a good name to have. But he’s biggest asset appears to be his defense. And with Yunel and Lillibridge and Renteria still here, why worry about trading a defensive specialist who’s still 3 years from the majors?
But whatever, you can’t make an omlette without breaking an egg. Teixeira is incredible. He’s way better than LaRoche ever was or ever will be and we have him for at least one more season. The Braves post season chances are looking pretty bleak this season, but next season is looking very positive. Especially after the Braves resign Teixeira to an extension, Trade Renteria for a top class starter and sign Alex Rodriguez to play short while keeping Yunel, Willie, Diaz, and Pena on the bench giving them the best team history has ever seen.
HA! What a dream…

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Schafer is really, really good. But he’s also in A-ball this year (high-A at Myrtle). He hit .294 with 34 doubles, 8 triples, 10 homers, 19 steals, .354 OBP, .477 slugging in 106 games.

Another reason Braves don’t need to sign or trade for a high-priced, long-term CF.

But other than Furcal, name another Brave who’s made the jump from A-ball directly to majors. Not going to happen.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

AZBravesFan, he says he feels stronger in the injured area after two more weeks of rest. Which makes sense.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best),

Those guys that are lazy and are just relying on talent, if they even get to the majors, they aren’t going to last.

The way it works is the kids that make A’s and B’s in high school and then make C’s and D’s at the next level and the next get filtered out so that only the kids who continue to make A’s and B’s are in the majors. But that doesn’t mean every one in the majors makes A’s. Some people in the majors are going to make B’s no matter how hard they try. The teams with more A students win.

By TheSouthernJackAss

September 6, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

A$sClowns!…Unbelievable…

By bruce

September 6, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Dave, I have noticed that the NATS are hot in sept, but I also noticed that was after losing seven straight the last days of August and losing 13 out of 17 in the last half of August, beating the Astros 3 out of 4 and taking one from the Phillies, otherwise being swept by Mets, Colorado, and Dodgers. That August team is the one I hope travels to ATL. I wish we were undefeated in Sept too like the Nats. Thanks, Bruce

By Ron Roberts

September 6, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

I’m personally not at all sold on Mike Cameron as a CF consideration. I get why the Braves would like to go after an aging CF who’d command a 1 or 2-year deal at far less money than the marque outfield names would, but that guy either hits .265-.270 or .210-.230. His numbers, over the course of his career dictate we’d essentially be replacing a poor-hitting CF with some pop in his bat (when it does find the ball) and tremendous range with the glove, for, well, an older poor-hitting CF with some pop in his bat (when it does find the ball) and less range.

Here’s what I’d do, first….

1. Move Kelly Johnson back out to LF if his arm can handle it. Keep Renteria and play Yunel Escobar at 2B.

2. Move Diaz to RF and play him every freaking day.

3. Move Francoeur to CF.

There; we lose the Andruw salary (which we use to acquire a good starter, save the $5-7 we’d be spending on Mike Cameron, and we get to keep Edgar in the process.

Our everyday starting lineup would be…

1. Kelly Johnson

2. Edgar Renteria

3. Chipper Jones

4. Mark Teixeira

5. Jeff Francoeur

6. Yunel Escobar

7. Brian McCann

8. Matt Diaz

9. Starting pitcher

Seems easy to me.

By The Cleaning Crew

September 6, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

Cptn Kirk We don’t mind wiping up a few little spots, but you so full of sheet!

By Lew

September 6, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

ChopZone-Yes, I believe picking up Teixeira was a good, solid move. No, it didn’t swing things in our favor this year, but I believe the deal was made as much with next year in mind (Andruw’s departure). Yes, I also believe he will be signed long term, too. There just wasn’t any decent pitching available at the price being asked. Everyone thinks we could have gotten Trachsel or someone along those lines, but how reralistic are most people anyway? It’s possible none of those pitchers was interested in signing, or as in the case of Loiza, the Braves had no desire to overspend for him for next year as well. I pretty much guarantee that JS will do everything possible in the offseason, to strengthen the Braves rotation, just like he did with the pen this year.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

By the way, no team has overcome more than a 6.5-game deficit in the division standings in September since divisional play began in 1969.

None.

But 5.5 in the wild-card standings? I’m pretty certain that’s been done. Just awful difficult to look up.

By A$s Clown

September 6, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

The yearly return of swallows to Capistrano is nothing. This blog has the bimonthly return of jackasses.

By The Terminator

September 6, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Your statement is logical to me. Let’s get together and interface.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best),

You see, it’s not as if everyone in the majors is going to be as valuable as Albert Pujols simply by trying harder or wanting it more. Desire and effort are not what make the difference in a pennant race.

By bruce

September 6, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Ron: is that the line-up for tonight? I wish. Bruce

By The Terminator

September 6, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Hasta La Vista Ron Roberts

Diaz in Right?????

Francouer in Center??????

You must be destroyed

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 6, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

I hear you, Shaun. I really do. I just believe that hard and desire can will you to do better. Sure, if you are maginally less talented than the next guy then all the heart in the world is going to make you as good or better but if you are somewhat close in talent but have more desire and heart than I honestly believe that can be enough to make some better.

Look at Tom Brady. Everyone in the NFL misjudged him? I doubt that. Fact is he didn’t look that great when he was at Michigan. But, his head for the game along with his desire and never say die atttitude has made him one of the best quarterbacks to ever live. Going on pure talent I can name 10 starting quarterbacks right now that are better than him, but he is the only one with three Super Bowl rings.

By Mz Manures

September 6, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Terminator and Shaun “Interfacing** in public, is gauche. Much like “swapping spit”. Cease.

By Tech-Rat

September 6, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

With Bobby “the Brain” Cox and this current staff of 3 - 5 pitchers we have, the line-up will have very little impact on next year’s team. We need two not one starting pitchers and forget about this James, Carlyle, and Cormier nonsense or next season will be the same ole-same-ole. We are stuck with “the Brain” and his contract because he ain’t going anywhere until the sky falls. Ownership will let him dictate his own departure.

By Ron Roberts

September 6, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Gosh, can’t even imagine who might be clowning around on the blog again, alluva sudden.

Damn right, I’m serious. Scroll up “Terminator.” I’m not the first person to suggest it; and the other person I saw talking about happens to be the AJC’s Braves beat writer.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 6, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you don’t think there are teams or players who want it more than others? Have you ever played sports competitively? If so, you never saw guys who just didn’t try as hard or find that extra gear to get it done?

By Guess who

September 6, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts Yes, you don’t know who might be clowning around, but what difference does that make? If you think it rates a response, respond. If not, ignore. It’s really quite simple.

By Joe Schmoe

September 6, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

DOB…

ESPN has an article up about largest September deficits here. It looks like 6.5 starting on Sept. 8 in 1995 is the number.

Also, I wasn’t claiming Schafer would be up next year. Not only do I not think it’s likely, but I don’t like the thought of rushing prospects to fill a void. He started in Low A ball before getting bumped this year.

I think we could take Brandon Jones development as an example that it’s not going to happen next year. The guy started in AA, proven his bat is probably ready in AA and AAA, but we still likely won’t see him until next year.

Schafer is going to probably start in High A next year and with any luck will be on the radar for 2009.

By Gues who - its YOU!

September 6, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

A response was given.

By Hammy the Brave

September 6, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for answering some questions about possible trades and player position moves for next year. I think it’s important to consider the future, because IMO until the Braves get at least 1 and maybe 2 more starters from outside, they can’t seriously expect to make the playoffs, or go far if they reach that stage.

Do you think JS would try to package Renteria, maybe Dan Smith and Yates, Thorman for a starter such as: AJ Burnett(has opt-out after 2008 and injuries), Rich Hill(young lefty) of Cubs, or Vasquez(big contract) of White Sox? I’m not greatly impressed with Garland of the Sox, unless he would perform appreciably better in the NL.

Also DOB, do JS and BC actually say/think that the Braves have a deep, versatile, veteran bench when the topic comes up? I really hope JS will sign Mike Lamb as a free agent, which I think he might be this winter, as a real backup to Chipper. He has to expect Chipper to be hurt consistently each year, based on the last 3-4yrs, and IMO, has to have a legitimate backup for those games he misses. I also think the Braves would be better with Diaz and possibly Harris as bench guys, rather than as starters.

Lastly, for Robert and all those other fans placing all the blame for the Braves’ present mediocrity at the feet of BC-you need to know one fact that no one has brought up. Bobby Cox is on the Board of Directors of the Braves, as shown in their Media Guide, and I don’t believe that’s true for any other manager in the majors. So while I get frustrated with him about many decisions, especially their inability to play small-ball come playoff time, don’t get so caught up in the cult of Bobby-is-the-Devil, because he ain’t leaving until he wants to himself.

Love to hear your trade comments DOB,

Hammy the Brave

By Shockerbro

September 6, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Bro, Kelly and I saw Ray Wylie Hubbard at an outdoor gig in Austin over the weekend. It was a blast. Stayed in the same hotel as the Longhorns. I’ll hollah at you. I’m off road this week. Get some sleep.
JOB

By J.D. Phillips

September 6, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

At least we won’t have to listen to anybody say Bobby Cox should be up for manager of the year award this year.

By Response

September 6, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Who You Hang one in your ear, huckleberry.

By texbravesfan

September 6, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Hey RonRoberts thats a good idea and one that I was thinking of also. I just have a little tweaking of the positions and lineup. This is how i would do it but whatever works is good enough for me and we save money for pitching, which is greatly needed. 1. Johnson CF, 2. Renteria SS, 3. Chipper 3rd, 4. Tex 1st, 5. McCann C, 6. Francouer RF, 7. Diaz LF, 8. Escobar 2nd, 9. Starter

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best),

Okay, here’s where I think the fundamental disagreement lies:

I believe that the majors has the best players, which means most talented, guys with most heart, most desire, guys who want “it” as much as you can want “it”, etc.

I think the heart, desire, “wanting it” factor is a wash more or less.

By Kentavo

September 6, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

This doesn’t mean jack unless they come out tomorrow night and punch the Nats in the mouth.

By Lee in S. GA

September 6, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Look at Tom Brady

Going on pure talent I can name 10 starting quarterbacks right now that are better than him, but he is the only one with three Super Bowl rings.

I hope M. Vick is not in that list.

By LeTwan Anthony

September 6, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Gumming the pie. That must be what did it. Never talk about gumming the pie. Last night, LeTwan offered a heartfelt post and informed the bloggers that Mama is making a pie for Matt Diaz. Lo and behold, that post was deleted! Gumming the pie was probably the culprit. Now, who would have to gum their pie? And speaking of pie, a nice slice of pie and some cold milk will work about now. See you bloggers later.

By Lee in S. GA

September 6, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

If anything Cox will be platooning Johnson and Diaz in LF. You know he is not going to play both of those guys consistently.

By freakin ridiculous

September 6, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Some of you guys make Bobby Cox a “manager” of the year! You couldn’t manage a manger.

By Shaun

September 6, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best),

Oh. I would argue Tom Brady had some hidden talents that couldn’t show up in evaluations but it likely wasn’t desire or heart or passion. Probably something that is very difficult or impossible to measure or evaluate like reading defenses or touch. But I seriously doubt Brady had significantly more desire to succeed in the NFL.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

we are not getting any help. LA winning. Cards winning.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 6, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Shaun, we will have to agree to disagree. I think you are right in saying the best of the best are in the majors.

Lee, I wasn’t thinking about Vick. Now, if were the talent it takes to pit Lassie vs. Old Yeller in a cage match to the death then yes Vick would be the most talented.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

I hope some of you will scroll up to the address given me by BossLady and send a contribution. Sounds like a good cause.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

soriano HRs, LA trails 4-2.

Help got here.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Whatever else happens, there is plenty to look forward to in October: new studio albums from Bruce Springsteen (a return to rockin’ out, with the E-Street Band, recorded in Atlanta, due out Oct. 2) and from Neil Young (due Oct. 16).

Neil’s record is reportedly a “sequel” to the original “Chrome Dreams” album that was to come out in 1977 but never made it, the songs from it such as Powderfinger and Cortez the Killer instead released on subsequent albums.

This new album is supposedly along those lines, which means incredible anticipation for Neil fans…

Hammy the Brave, your trade questions are way too involved and speculative for Sept. 6 (just throwing various names into a deal and asking me if the Braves might do this or that; how am I supposed to know on Sept. 6 when we don’t even know many of the pitchers who are going to be available in trade?)

Most folks keep it a bit simpler or more general with their trade queries a month before the regular season’s over.

By Aesop

September 6, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

A Modern Parable

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team’s management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the ‘Rowing Team Quality First Program,’ with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year’s racing team was out-sourced to India

Sadly, the End.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Joe Schmoe, agreed on Schaefer timetable.

Just finished writing a story with some of that same info on the largest divisional deficit. Wish I’d seen it put together neatly there, instead of looking through six books and Googling for an hour.

By David-ATL14

September 6, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Francoeur to CF, never happening at this level. He’d be a below avg defensive OF.

Like DOB said if Andruw leaves, then it will be either a FA or trade acquistion.

Following people will not be candidates to play CF for the Braves in 08: Francoeur,Harris,Kelly Johnson,Diaz,Brandon Jones,Brent Lillibridge.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, Cameron’s had an OBP under .340 once in the past nine seasons.

You make it sound like he’s just as likely to hit .210 as .260, which isn’t the case. Look at his numbers.

Again, he’s not the player he was, but he’s still pretty solid and a very good defensive outfielder who’d come relatively cheap as a short-term fix until a younger, cheaper player is ready.

By BossLady

September 6, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

By BossLady (Duplicate)

September 6, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

DOB and fellow bloggers this blog’s about music and an upcoming concert. September 29th at the Mable House Ampitheatre, $10 only, gates open at 10:30 am. 12-7 PM Featured, Courtesy Murder, Ann August, Thee Crucials, LD and the Blind Dates, Barry Richman Band. It will be hosted by Captain Herb Emory. Actually, if all can just make a day of this with your friends and/or family any support will be appreciated.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 6, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What did you think of Neil’s “Greendale” album from a couple of years back? At first, I didn’t like it that much but I guess it grew on me a little. The man has a vivid imagination, no doubt. Not his best work by any means, but seriously…will there ever be another “Harvest?”

By Ron Roberts

September 6, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

David-ATL 14, uh, why would a tall, speedy outfielder with a cannon arm and range not possibly be a CF candidate?

By Ron Roberts

September 6, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

DO’B… I never said Mike Cameron would be likely to hit .210. He’s shown, lately, a proficiency to hit anywhere from .235 to .273. However, his OBP (counting this season) has been under .340 now twice in nine years and right at .340, at .344 and .342 in the past nine seasons. So that’s two years under .340 OBP, and three more hovering at or near .340.

But his career batting average (.252) and career OBP (.341) just don’t excite me enough when I think we could make some internal moves to cover the hole in CF and save that money for better pitching without sacrificing much offensively. That’s the point I’m making; that’s all.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts I am sure that others will “cover” this with you. Probably before I can get this written. But, take “speedy” and “range” out of you “equation” and you have a better description of Frenchy. He has the range to adequately cover RF, but not CF. And he is certainly not speedy. His cannon of an arm is just where it should be.

By Incredible!

September 6, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

“By TampaBrave September 6, 2007 10:37 AM Was it over when the German’s bombed Pearl Harbor??”

Say WHAT?? A fine education there! LOL!!

By j-School Dropout

September 6, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Mark Knopfler is also releasing a new album this month. As is Patti Scialfa (Springsteen’s wife), her last record was excellent. And let’s not forget Steve Earle. There’s a whole lotta shakin’ goin’ on in the old-timer music world. BTW, Prince’s latest is really good.

By Repost

September 6, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

By Adolph Hitler

September 6, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave We did not bomb Pearl Harbor. Damn, we get blamed for everything.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

LA wins their game. Not good.

By History 101

September 6, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave You do know who Adolph Hitler was, don’t you? Bonus question: Who is buried in Grant’s tomb?

By Ron Roberts

September 6, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Paladin, dude, Frenchy rounds the bases pretty damn fast. I’ll take that covering ground in CF if I had to. I’d also take it over a 34 year old CF with diminishing returns at the dish, too. Now, in a perfect world, Andruw would re-up for $12 million for one season and do well enough to earn a multi-year deal we couldn’t afford after an MVP-caliber season.

I just think that if we’re going to better this team, post-Andruw, we could save some $$$ by patching up CF in-house and putting any money we save losing Andruw and not acquiring a guy like Cameron into bolstering our rotation.

By History 101

September 6, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

TB And, no, Tojo is not the Braves’ #5 starter.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

j-school, Earle’s will be out last week of September, and it’s outstanding.

Saw Patt Sciafla sing on Letterman couple nights ago. Good stuff.

Heard mixed reviews of Prince’s latest. I’m a big fan, but his CDs have been filler-heavy for years. Can still thrown on Sign o’ the Times and, to me, it’ll always stand as one of the greatest albums, along with 1999 and Purple Rain. Couple of his later ones were solid, too. Still an incredible live performer.

By EX OARSMAN

September 6, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Aesop Were it not so true, it would be funny. Of course now that I am out of the loop and depend on corporate America to be the *holes I know them to be, then it’s get all the money you can for my investment….

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

OK, Ron, arguing with you is only slightly more productive than arguing with Shaun. But, I’ll bet you a dinner at the restaurant of your choice that Frenchy is not in CF for the Braves next season. Don’t make it a French restaurant, though. I don’t eat frog food.

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Jeff would be a very good CF, but i dont see the need to move him out of RF. Whats the idea? to play whom in RF?????

By Go watch movie animal house

September 6, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

History 101, Repost and all others, get out of your mom’s basement and watch the movie animal house. The quote from TampaBrave is from the movie Animal House…

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, I wouldn’t put it up among my Neil favorite albums. It’s OK, but to me, not a great one.

You see the DVD/movie of the concert at the Ryman? Great movie, great show.

I thought “Ragged Glory,” “Rust Never Sleeps,” “After the Gold Rush” and “Everybody Knows This is Nowhere” were all as good or better than “Harvest,” which is a great album.

By History 101

September 6, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Animal House and all that crap Idiocy repeated is still idiocy. Now quit watching dumb movies and STUDY! And aren’t you a little old to still be wearing training pants?

By Chop Chop

September 6, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

History 101,

While you’re at it, why don’t you correct Adolph Hitler on the spelling of his first name. It’s spelled “Adolf”.

On second thought, maybe that’s covered in History 102.

By Ron Roberts

September 6, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Paladin, who’s arguing? I have my preference in the pending situation, that’s all.

I’m not big on french food, either, and I’m not betting that the Braves will do what I propose; I’m just saying that’s what I’d do. I’d move Francoeur to CF, play Diaz in RF and Kelly Johnson in LF, everyday next season, with Brandon Jones ready to come up and Willie Harris on the bench for spot-starts to rest any of ‘em.

In my mind, that saves us the Andruw salary and the $5-7 million we’d potentially be spending for a Mike Cameron to pursue the better starting pitchers that’ll be available in the offseson. I just don’t feel good about adding an Andruw-esque batting average back to the lineup, coupled with less money put into upgrading the rotation.

By Mr J

September 6, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts,

I don’t think its impossible for Francoeur to be the CF, but I don’t think we’d be happy with Diaz in RF. His throws are accurate, but not particularly strong. Runners would go from first to third on him all day. Better to leave Frenchy alone and find a temporary solution in center.

By History 101

September 6, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop Is that the sound you make when you are grazing?

By Go watch movie animal house

September 6, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

History 101, My studying days are done, earned a masters degree years ago. But I am concerned with your interest in what pants I’m wearing and bowel movements….

By Chop Chop

September 6, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

History 101, is that the class you could never pass?

By Dr. Pill

September 6, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

It is a medical mystery how a small pimple on the @ss of humanity, could become the puss-filled boil that Chop Chop has become. And we don’t know if it is too drug-resistant or too drug-susceptible. Do tell.

Animal House Is that your’s? And watch that mastersbating; it will make you go blind.

By Lew

September 6, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

RonRoberts-I’ve mentioned this before, but numerous people keep mentioning the supposed huge windfall in not re-signing Andruw, so I’ll do it again. We will not have an extra $13.5 million to spend. It is doubtful we will get any more insurance $$$ from Hampton, even if he can’t go for the third straight year and he is still owned a large chunck of change. Hudson is due a raise of about $7 million. Smoltz is due a raise of about another $4 million. McCann’s due a raise. Francouer is due some more money. Teixeira will be due several million more in arbitration. Soriano will be due $$$$ in arbitration. Chipper’s salary will likely go up. Diaz deserves more, etc.

This humongous amount of extra money just won’t be there from Andruw’s departure. I would be willing to bet that Liberty Media WILL bump payroll, and of course Wicky’s gone, but let’s be realistic. I find it highly doubtful that we will reap a windfall large enough to buy a relatively expensive CF sub AND more high quality pitching (if it’s even available. A trade is much more likely than any major free agent activity. Despite what some think, the farm system is still loaded.

By Blog Reader

September 6, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

Is the blog taking everyone forever to update posts or is it just my computer? My computer usually loads up quick but the last few days it takes about 20 to 30 minutes to show new posts. Normally it takes 5 minutes or as soon as I refresh there are new posts. Are bloggers just not posting much? Does AJC have server problems? HEEELLLP!!! This is a pain in the buttocks.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 6, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this

If it ain’t broke , don’t try to fix it. Francoeur is perfect right where he is. Gregor Blanco is a solid defensive center fielder , but he has little power and it remains to be seen if he can hit major league pitching well enough to warrant a chance at the job in 2008. The idea of losing both Andruw and Renteria via free agency and trade is a concern because that is a ton of offense ( the two of them AVG. 170 RBI/45 HR’s a season together) to replace. A full season of Teixeira at 1st will help ease that concern. Torii Hunter and his 26 HR / 94 RBI/ .271 BA / 16 SB a season average and gold glove would look really nice but I’m not real sure if the Braves could afford him. Pitching remains the number one priority and I’m betting that Glavine will opt for free agency.http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2007/09/apreviewofth1.php

By Dr. Pill's Conscience

September 6, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this

Damn you, History 101!

By Stu Moseley

September 6, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

If Francoeur plays center field on an extended basis then it is only a matter of time before there is a horrendous collision with whoever is in left field (e.g. Matt Diaz). Bad idea. Keep him in right.

The prospect of Mike Cameron does not excite me. I would rather they play a prospect from within the organization and use the salary differential to pay for starting pitching. Starting pitching is what is needed.

Zuma is the best Neil Young album. Anyone who thinks otherwise must have damaged their hearing.

And Elvis is still pathetic.

By Coach (FREE AGENT LIST , KNOCK YOURSELF OUT)

September 6, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php

By Coach (FREE AGENT LIST , KNOCK YOURSELF OUT)

September 6, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2007/09/apreviewofth1.php

By Ron Roberts

September 6, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this

Loud and clear, Lew. All the MORE reason not to blow money on a free agent outfielder.

By Paladin

September 6, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

Is it time for the game, yet?

By Dr. Pill's pill

September 6, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

The Alcoholic, The Smoker & The Homosexual

Three desperately ill men met with their doctor one day to discuss their options. One was an alcoholic, one was a chain smoker, & one was a homosexual.

The doctor, addressing all three of them, said, “If any of you indulge in your vices one more time, you will surely die.”

The men left the doctor’s office, each convinced that he would never again indulge himself in his vice.

While walking toward the subway for their return trip to the suburbs, they passed a bar. The Alcoholic, hearing the loud music & smelling the ale, could not stop himself. His buddies accompanied him into the bar, where he had a shot of whiskey.

No sooner had he replaced the shot glass on the bar, he fell off his stool, stone cold dead. His companions, somewhat shaken, left the bar, realizing how seriously they must take the doctor’s words.

As they walked along, they came upon a cigarette butt lying on the ground, still burning.

The Homosexual looked at the Chain Smoker & said, “You know if you bend over to pick that up, we’re both dead.”

By Overlord

September 6, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

I would say, keep renteria and we will have just enough veterans so we could play some rookie in the OF. Getting someone for CF means we would have to send renteria away. It would be a huge mistake to do that. 1. It takes aways leadership.

1. It takes away the an excelent OBP AVG clutch guy, why would you want to do that?

2. it would weaken our bench as yunel will play SS, so then your bench starts from ZERO.

Yes, edgar is expensive, but he is worthed every penny.

Id say Edgar should only go if you are getting somebody like oswalt, and im pretty sure theyll as for something else.

Let edgar go if you could sign Santana. But i wouldnt let edgar go for someone that is not tops, edgar is at the top, he is the best SS the braves have had in the last 20 years. Think about it for a second.

After he is gone you will be crying like you cry now for glavine and maddux departure. He has the same importance to this team as chipper, only difference is years of service to the uniform.

By Anders

September 6, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

DOB Glad to see the shock therapy you required after the Mets thrashing of your Braves worked and you are finally able to return to your beloved blog. Your one sentence synopsis of the utter collapse of the Braves last weekend left me wanting a little more but I guess we can both pretend it never happened. As for Lew’s response to me regarding the WC I respect that he at least continues to stay the course even in the face of obvious defeat.He didn’t dissapear for two days to cry into his pillow. Lew while we’re at it - how does what DOB* thinks about what the Braves will do in CF next year effect the outcome? Shouldn’t we just let JS do his thing and let the chips fall where they may? (He say’s with a perfectly straight face knowing no matter who the Braves get he won’t give you half of what you had there the last 10 years)

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 6, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

Wickman , Andruw , Sturtze , Wilson , Woodward and Redman will have made 24.85 million in 2007. The Braves will be responsible for about 6.66 million of Edgar Renteria’s 9 million contract in 2008. If he is traded that could potentially be 31.45 million coming off the books. The payroll is going up , the Braves have 53.8 million committed to Smoltz , Hampton , Chipper , McCann and Hudson in 2008. Teixeira , Gonzalez , Soriano , Cormier , Diaz , Villarreal , Paronto and Orr are all arbitration eligible. Ron Mahay is the only free agent that the Braves absolutely have to resign. John Schuerholz is going to have a chunk of change to spend this off-season. Needless to say , I don’t share Lew’s gloomy outlook concerning the payroll.

By Steve

September 6, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’ve heard 30 second samplings of all the songs on the upcoming Springsteen album “Magic” in addition to the full version of the leadoff track “Radio Nowhere”. Extrapolating from those 30 second samplings, I think this is a great great rock and roll album with a very accessible and commercial sound. Probably most reminiscent of “The River” from 1980 and “Born in the USA” from 1984. With the potential to be every bit the timeless classic those albums were. October will be an exciting month for me, regardless of whether the Braves pull off a miracle and make it to post-season.

By N8

September 6, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

Here is a quote from Willie Harris, that explains “it” in a nutshell (the “it” being what irks people like me, when discussing Bobby).

“It’s the best place I’ve ever played,” said Harris, who signed with the Braves in the offseason. “I think a lot of other managers would have given up on a guy by now. [Cox] is the kind of guy you want to give 125 percent for. It just shows you his loyalty and character.”

Say wah!

So let me get this straight. As fans, we’re supposed to ADMIRE Bobby for his loyalty and character, because due to his “patience” Harris helped us win a game, when we’re essentially OUT OF THE RUNNING?

As opposed to playing Matt Diaz full time, batting KJ/Escobar in the leadoff spot, you know….actually putting you best lineup on the field.

Yup. I have to admit. I sure am glad that Willie wasn’t “given up on” and kicked to the side. Because when I tune into a Braves baseball game, no check that…the whole season, what I’m looking for, is a manager that helps people out by being loyal.

Winning is for losers that only care about the game, right?

Of course Willie Harris wants to play here next year. WHERE ELSE would he have not been riding the pine (possibly in AAA), after his initial hot streak? I’m not saying he has NO PURPOSE on this team. He’s obviously a guy that can play a few positions, he can pinch hit, pinch run, and spot start when needed.

He would be a VERY valuble utility/platoon guy. Similar to DeRosa, Graffinino, Lockhart, and apparently that’s all Matt Diaz will ever be.

A career, mediocre (if not below mediocre) player like Harris is willing to “give 125 percent” for a guy like Bobby, because he’s fighting to keep his “day job”.

Now if only we could’ve found ourselves a manager that Andruw was willing to give 125 percent for, THAT would’ve been somthin’

Since I haven’t blogged in a couple of days, I’ll add another thought.

The other night when Chipper was freakin’ out about the strike zone (justified, it was HORRIBLE), he mentioned that Turner Field needs to install Ques-Tech (or however the hell you spell it).

That’s an interesting thought. I wonder what his thoughts on that system were when the Braves had to of the 3 greatest “control” pitchers in the last 40 years, who almost ALWAYS seemed to get some calls off the plate. Add Neagle to that mix as well, along with Burkett.

I don’t seem to remember Chipper complaining about the strike zone then. But that strike zone was abysmal, as he put it.

By GermanBravesFan

September 6, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Steve: I haven’t heard samples of the other songs yet, but “Radio Nowhere” really rocks - can’t wait to get tickets for the tour! Venues in Europe sold out in less than 10 minutes!!

By Roberta Roberts

September 6, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this

Is this Ron Roberts the designated blog jerk now? or just a little school girl that likes to bold every other word that he types, you know, for emphasise, kool, or whatever?

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this

Steve, that’s what the story in new Rolling Stone made it sound like, a classic E-Street rock album. I can’t wait to hear it….

Stu Mosely, I’d definitely put Zuma in my top 7-8 of Neil’s, but personally I like the ones I listed a little better. But Zuma is outstanding, no doubt.

(I guess I should say if you don’t think “Everyone Knows This Is Nowhere” is his best album, you’ve lost your hearing. But I really find it rather presumptious and narrow-minded when someone tries to tell another fan of the same artist that he or she MUST like the same album or movie the most, or else he’s missing the boat….)

Give me Cinnamon Girl and the “Everyone Knows This Is Nowhere” album, or “Heart of Gold” and the Harvest album, if I have to take one song, one album by Neil. Also forgot to mention Prairie Wind, one of his more recent albums that I think stands with his best.

Oh, “Needle and the Damage Done” is hard to match, too…

Now that I think about it, give me live “Hey Hey, My My” off Rust Never Sleeps, or “Rockin’ In The Free World” off Freedom. All of it is incredible, just sublime rock and roll….

N8, I don’t think Willie said anything about what you, as fans, are supposed to admire or respect or anything else. Why are you taking a quote about his thoughts concerning playing here and injecting yourself into the equation for some reason? The quote has nothing, zero, to do with you or anyone else except Willie and his opinion of playing here….

I do agree with you about the strike zone, however.

By N8

September 6, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

I get it about Willie. I get that HE enjoys playing for Bobby.

If it sounded like it was a knock on Willie it wasn’t. I was one of the few that were BEGGING for that guy to get playing time, long before Langerhans was traded. Willie is EXACTLY the kind of guy that I root for. I love non-roster invities (or guys who sign minor league deals) that not only make the team, but contribute. Believe me I appreciate it.

But those should also be the first guys to SIT when they’re not going well, due to no previous “track recored” with the current team. You see, for the first month or two of Andruw’s slump (and I’m talking LAST August, not this April), I can understand Bobby being loyal and waiting for him to come around. He has a track record of doing so. But not a guy that’s been in the organization less than 8 months.

My main problem wasn’t with what Willie said, but the “HEADLINE” that was given to the story on the braves official site, it read as following:

“Cox’s loyalty benefits Harris”

Sure it did. The guy got to PLAY THROUGH a slump in the midst of arguably the most important stretch of games down the stretch, even though many (you included) were documenting how ABYSMAL (my new favorite word….Thanks Chipper), his numbers were. Which is bad enough when you don’t have another option, but when you’ve got Matt Diaz, it’s unacceptable.

I mean HONESTLY answer me the following 2 questions.

1) Would YOU have been playing Diaz everyday until he cooled down, putting Escobar and KJ back into a “platoon” leadoff role?

2) How many other managers in baseball (without 10 game leads) would NOT have played Diaz everyday?

So MY headline would’ve been:

“Cox’s loyalty benefits Harris….at expense of Braves playoff chances.”

That’s my main point.

BTW: Looks like Peyton Manning& Marvin Harrison took all of two series to find their groove. YIKES.

By TennesseePaul

September 6, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

Speaking of strikes…

I get p** when I strike out, I get mad. At least if you put the ball in play, a guy can make an error, and you give your teammates a chance to drive you in and score a run. When you strike out, you don’t even give yourself a chance.
—Albert Pujols

Yet another reason why he is a great hitter. But, the same article I found this in had this tid bit and all I could think of is Scott Thorman…
If a power hitter can drive the ball 380 feet over the fence by swinging at 80 percent capacity, rather than cranking it up to 100 percent in an effort to send the ball 450 feet, he is bound to be more successful at making contact.
“Remember Steve Kemp?” Joyner said. “Every time he swung, he had to go pick up his hat somewhere because he was swinging so hard. These guys don’t have to do that”.

Here’s the article

By bravesfan

September 6, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

DOB in the Macon Telegraph it said Renteria is scheduled to come off the DL tomorrow, is that what you are hearing and will he play?

By Serge

September 6, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Where did it go wrong?

When we replaced the Great Leo Mazzone with the Young Pitcher Messiah Roger McDowell. Hes been a disaster. Cant wait till he gets canned.

By Stu Moseley

September 6, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks otherwise must have damaged their hearing.

OK - exaggerating to make a point. (sometimes it’s heard to be noticed on this blog between the profane exchanges and gay jokes).

I love Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere and it is among my most played recordings. But there are two things that diminish the listening experience for me:

1. The song Losing End (When You’re On) is grating to me especially the part where Neil sings “pick it Wilson” in a ridiculous falsetto. I often skip over this track when playing the CD.

2. Down By The River is an incredible tune and so is Cowgirl. But they are so similar Neil should have put them on different albums. Running Dry and Round and Round are very underrated, great tunes.

As for Zuma, there are no songs I want to skip over (although Lookin’ for a Love and Through My Sails are my least favorites). Killer Cortez is THE penultimate Crazy Horse guitar work.

By N8

September 6, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Serge

You responded to the “where did it all go wrong” question with the following:

“When we replaced the Great Leo Mazzone with the Young Pitcher Messiah Roger McDowell. Hes been a disaster. Cant wait till he gets canned”

First of all, LEO LEFT to go coach with his childhood buddy, we “replaced” him because he WASN’T HERE.

Second. Since joining Baltimore, Leo’s coaching staff, in 300 games the Orioles pitchers have allowed 353 HR, with 1519 ER in 2642 IP. For an outstanding (only a hint of sarcasm) Team ERA of (drumroll please)……5.17!

Upon further research, I found that the 2005 Orioles (you know, the last team that DIDN’T have Leo as a pitching coach), played 162 games, allowing 180 HR, and ended up with a Team ERA of 4.57.

So ask yourself this. When Baltimore fired Perlozzo, is it quite possible that they fired the WRONG GUY? Even if you don’t think Leo should’ve been fired, you have to at least admit, Leo’s failure to guide those pitchers got his buddy canned.

Am I really saying Leo is “responsible” for the Orioles pitching woes? No. Not really. But again, it’s relative to salary (similar to Andruw). For the ammount of money that the Orlioles gave him (I believe the highest ammount EVER to a pitching coach), if I’m in the Orioles front office, I’m disappointed in the results. Similar to Andruw, like I said. If he was making 5 million dollars this year, he would’ve been a BARGAIN with his numbers. NOT for 13.5 million.

I think Baltimore, Sam Perlozzo and maybe even Leo are starting figure out what MANY of us have known for a long time….

He AND Bobby, (along with the fans of the Braves), should consider themselves prvlaged to have had the chance to see Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz anchor 3/5 of a big league rotation for around 10 years.

Aint EVER happening again. PERIOD.

By Lew

September 6, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Why are you surprised Harris is still playing? Haven’t you heard the hue and cry for him to be our starting CF next year? The real question is just how long he’ll ride the two successful months he had two months ago-quite possibly the two best months of his entire career. You know the career he had before May and June-the six year 900 AB career where he hit .238-and the one he’s had hitting .225 since June? Hopefully he won’t ride the tiger as long as Dontrelle has ridden the one good season he had three years ago.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

Good points, Stu. Hardcore Neil fans always welcome. Or modest Neil fans. So, have you checked out that movie I mentioned, Heart of Gold, the concert at the Ryman? You can actually rent it, but I’d suggest buying it. Powerful.

And you’re right about stuff getting lost amid the profane exchanges and gay jokes. And you forgot nose-picking jokes. Those never get old. My nephew loves reading them here.

He’s 12.

By David O'Brien

September 6, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

N8, in answer to your questions: 1. Yes, 2. I don’t know how many….

Bravesfan, I addressed Edgar up higher, a couple times or more. No decision yet, though I think he’ll be activated Friday. If not, then sometime during the weekend series. And yes, he’ll play when he is.

By Anders

September 6, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

N8 Your 9:58post was excellent. I tended to side withe the Mazzone theory but the numbers you provided sure have me thinking otherwise. As for Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux - Amen to that as well. I think the further away Braves fans get from that era the more it will be appreciated for what it was. As a Met fan I hope they never repeat it again!

By N8

September 6, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

Lew

Hell, earlier in the year when Andruw was stinking (who knew it would last all year?), and Harris was sizzling, I was ALSO in the group thinking that maybe he could be a stop-gap guy in CF next year.

Obviously I don’t feel that way, now. Like I said in one of my above posts, I actually DO THINK that Harris has great value to this team. He’s a decent PH, that can run (not sold on his base stealing ability - but the guy CAN run), he can play OF and play the IF if your in a pinch.

He is a GREAT utility/bench guy. Hell even a good platoon guy, for a team without other options. But Matt Diaz doesn’t NEED to be in a platoon. At least offensively. If it would make Bobby feel good, start Diaz every day and then bring in Harris for late inning defense, when we have a lead. Not like he (Bobby) hasn’t done that with other players in the past (Blauser left MANY games only to have Belliar replace him late in games).

DOB

Thank you for answering my questions. I appreciate it.

I think that you guys know me enough to know my stance on Bobby. I’m not as hating of him as Robert is. I’ve grown tired of some of his predictibility in recent years.

I can really honestly say that some (many) of Bobby’s decisions in the last month or so, have led to their demise, or at least contributed to it.

I’m not saying that if Diaz plays for a month everyday, that we’re up by 5 games in the wildcard race. But I can tell you that while fighting for our lives, we didn’t have TIME to be patient with Willie. We need(ed) EVERY advantage we could get our hands on.

Bobby, plain and simple, got in the way of one of our weapons contributing down the stretch, IMO. The same way, leaving Langerhans in to hinder the offense in May, and the SAME WAY leaving Andruw in the 4th and 5th hole, until Tex arrived.

And THAT is not getting into some of his bullpen decisions.

Amazing how much more “calm” I am now, that it’s all over for this team this year. LOL! It’s too bad. That game yesterday could’ve (should’ve) been one for the ages. But instead it was just a great moment in a bitter season, that simply reminded me of “what could’ve been”.

For the record, I didn’t catch the 8th and 9th innings. But it wasn’t because I “quit” listening on mlbradio. I had to leave my office and run some errands, and heard the final score on ESPN radio on the way home, after I was done sh!tting myself, I could only shake my head.

L8r.

By Booger

September 6, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

Nose picking jokes wouldn’t be so popular here if the team’s manager wasn’t a prolific nose picker. If I had to pick a topic that should be taboo on this blog it would not be nose picking - it would be sore groin talk. There has been too much sore groin talk on here of late - and we all know who writes the sore groin stories.

By N8

September 6, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

DOB

Does your nephew enjoy the old “pull my finger”, as well? LOL!

Anders

Thanks for the compliment. You said:

“As a Met fan I hope they never repeat it again!”

Not only will it not happen for the Braves anytime soon, I seriously doubt we will ever see ANY rotation being anchored by 3 future HOFr’s for over a decade. It AINT gonna happen.

It was truely special, and with each passing day, I’m appreciating it more and more.

Think about it, your team was touted as having the “next Big 3” about 10 years ago (Pulsipher, Wilson, Isringhausen). That didn’t work out so well for you.

The ONLY thing close to it, since Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine became teamates in 1993, was what happened in Oakland with Hudson, Zito and Mulder. You wanna know how many seasons the three of them played TOGETHER? Five. From 2000-2004.

So the closest rotation, that even had a REMOTE chance (in today’s free agency and fire sales) of being what Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz were, ONLY lasted half as long.

Like I said. It ain’t EVER happening again. You might have some staffs that end up with 3 HOFr’s on the same staff for a short while, but not a decade.

By N8

September 6, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

Does anybody else out their subscribe to Sirius Radio? I do, and pretty much listen to RawDog and Blue Collar Radio while at work (when Braves games aren’t on).

But the reason I ask, is because while watching this Colts/Saints game I’m reminded of how DEAD ON Frank Caliendo’s impression of John Madden is. YIKES, for an icon, he sure is tough to listen to sometimes.

By Anders

September 6, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

N8 Thanks for reminding me about the next big 3 or Generation X as they were called. Should have been Generation Exit. Where are you on the Cameron debate fom earlier? He played for the Mets for two years. I’ll tell you what, he was better than I thought and one of those players whose better than his numbers. He’s not great but at the right price a good stop gap guy. Biggest risk is his health. The guy is built like a thorougbred but he breaks down like one too.

By uga-brave

September 6, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

N8,

you are in the zone, all well thought posts.

as for the braves outfield next year no way do you move FRANCOUER out of right. for one thing he cant go back on the ball, just ask tim hudson. he is right where he should be. he is an above average right fielder, with a very good arm. if AARON rowland is doable for 12 m a year he is your new #5 hitter.

By Serge

September 6, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

N8 go check out what Leo did with Bedard, with Guthrie, hes made them into great pitchers. He cant help all of them and hes had a tough time with the mediocre pitchers in the pen.

Even so hes still helped more pitchers than Roger has. In two years our pitching has regressed dramatically from what Leo did here. So sorry. Rogger is horrible no matter how you spin it.

By uga-brave

September 6, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

anders,

i would take a flyer on cameron, just as long as it was a two year deal on the cheap, he would probably want a third year though.

that being said, he stkikes out more than you know who, but defensively top notch.

any guy that comes back from that collision he had in right-center last year is a pretty tough hombe.

By N8

September 6, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

Anders

I’m fine with Cameron defensively. Hell offensively he really isn’t that far off of what Andruw has done (save for 2005 and 2006). But you’re right. At the right price (between 8-11 million dollars in today’s market), he wouldn’t be bad.

For the record it’s ALWAYS fun to remind Mets fans about the “next big three”. :-) I remember the 3 of them being on the cover of Baseball Weekly in the mid-90’s and thinking then: “Oh great. The division runs’ gonna end sooner than later”. I guess I was wrong.

But I’m with uga-brave, I’ve been a HUGE fan of Rowand since he faceplanted into the wall. He’s pretty darn good CF, and he can hit a little.

This team could use some more guys that play/think like Chipper and Smoltz (the way Francoeur and McCann seemed to before this year).

For the right price, I’d take Cameron over Andruw.

But at this point for our team and his career, I’d go ALL OUT after Rowand. Just so long as Renteria can be moved for another starting pitcher to pitch in the 3-hole.

If we have to “sign” a pitcher or two, I would do that before worrying about CF. Somebody can play defense out their (Blanco, Francoeur - with B.Jones moving to RF), and with Tex the offense should be fine.

Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. We can’t possibly add enough to make me comfortable. Especially after how much of it we’ve given away in the last 10 months or so.

By Serge

September 6, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2005/03/themazzoneeff_1.php

Leo statistically helped pitchers shave off their ERA. He didnt have Maddux/Smoltz/Glavien carry him. Its time fans gave him some respect.

By Anders

September 6, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

Uga He does strike out quite a bit, and when he’s in a funk they come in bunches. That’s why you bat him 6th or 7th where he can’t blow up rally’s too much. I don’t have a good read on Rowand. His defense speaks for itself and I don’t think you can undersell the value of that in CF for the Braves with that huge outfield to defend. That said, I don’t know what kind of offensive game he has. $12 mil per is a big number and I expect since this might be his only bite at the apple he’ll want 5 years. I also wonder why 2 teams would let him go in 3 years.

By uga-brave

September 6, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

leo wanted every pitcher to pitch the same way, the down and away strike. leo was very effective up until 2003, he just tried to make every pitcher pitch the same way. he had a hard time coaching the particular strengths pitchers had when they got here. he tried to break everyone down, right or wrong.

personally i loved the guy. bobby and leo played off each other. from a team standpoint there is no doubt we miss him and pat corrales.

i still have no idea what that little oompa loompa in the dugout does. anyone know?

By N8

September 6, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

Serge

“N8 go check out what Leo did with Bedard, with Guthrie, hes made them into great pitchers.”

Bedard was 27-14 with a 2.68 ERA in 69 starts in the minor leagues.

I’m pretty sure that Leo had NOTHING to do with that.

Guthrie had a 4.40 ERA in 97 career minor league starts, and has had a nice year at 7-5 with a 3.62 ERA for Baltimore this year. But not that far out of line from many other pitchers that all of the sudden “get it”.

I’d be willing to bet my left maplenut, that had Roger McDowell been the pitching coach from 93-02, the trio of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz somehow would’ve “survived” his lack of whatever it is you think he’s lacking. Hell, Andie McDowell could’ve been their pitching coach, IMO.

*”Even so hes still helped more pitchers than Roger has. In two years our pitching has regressed dramatically from what Leo did here. So sorry. Rogger is horrible no matter how you spin it.”

What did Leo do for Hudson? For all we know, Leo messed him up big time, and it took him some coaching from Roger to get Leo’s bad advice out of his system. Who knows. You want me to get into what Leo “did” for HoRam, Davies, Marquis, Odalis Perez, Jason Schmidt, Dan Kolb, Chris Reitsma, among many others?

For every pitcher you claim that Leo helped, I’ll come up with two that he hasn’t. In fact SOME have had better success (Hudson, Schmidt, Marquis) AFTER getting far away from Leo.

If you are denying that Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz had more to do with the 14 divsion titles than ALL OTHER BRAVES PLAYERS (including Bobbyy and all coaches), combined, then I wish you a good time at the Milsap family reunion you’re obviously planning on attending.

Give up. You lose. Leo was hired by Angelos and paid a TON of money to do in Baltimore what he did in Atlanta. He’s failed. Period.

By Serbok

September 6, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

http://www.ajc.comhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=AoR2X8eZtns

By MegaBravesFan

September 6, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

DOB What do you think about Corey Patterson? I noticed he is a free agent and is from Atlanta.

By uga-brave

September 6, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

i know i am being redundant, but does anyone believe that francouer is going to be a consistent 30 home run guy.

if we go on the cheap next year and dont replace andruw, no way can francouer hit 16 homes again.

you would think he would have opposite field power, but he has none.

anyone notice what RICK ANKIEL is doing. this is pretty much unheard of in the modern era. 9 home runs in less then a month. kudos to that determination to get back to the show.

By N8

September 7, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

Serge

First of all, if you’re gonna put a link up get the link right.

But since I’m not “buying it”, I found it amusing that when I clicked on your link, it said that the “website couldn’t be found”, which just aids in the bogusness of it. :-)

Second, CHECK OUT THE TITLE OF THE STORY!! Yeah, the 2005 in the headline says it all doesn’t it?

Coincidentally, I bet it’s leaving out his two years in Baltimore, since he didn’t join that team UNTIL 2006!!

Nice try though. What’s next, a link on how Leo helped Andruw lose his virginity? Maybe he gave Wickman his first hot dog?

Listen. All sarcasm asside. We miss him. But not as much as we miss having those 3 guys in our rotation.

If you don’t believe it, do the math. We had 3 aces all those years. Literally. 3 ACES! Add in the years of Avery, Millwood and Neagle and it was 4 if not 5. Worst case scenario was that we had 5 #2’s.

Now we have two. Smoltz and Hudson. What would’ve just adding Glavine (even at his age) done for this team this year? NOW imagine Adding Brandon Webb to Hudson and Smoltz. And THAT trio STILL wouldn’t be as amazing as the Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz trio (in their PRIME) was. What would Webb have done for our season?

I tell you what it would’ve done. It would’ve made a LOT of people stop asking for Leo back, and most of those people would be saying how amazing Roger is.

By Serbok

September 7, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

http://www.ajc.comyoutube.com/watch?v=CqN8v5pZC54

By N8

September 7, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

Uga

As for Francouer’s power? A little concerning? Sure.

But I’ll take a lineup of good “hitters” over a bunch of hackers.

Jeff’s power numbers are down, but his RBI and Runs aren’t off of last years pace. He’s taken a step in the right direction IMO. Boy just needs an occasional day off.

Also, TOTALLY agree with you about Ankiel. Hard not to root for that guy. Too bad we didn’t get him in the JD Drew trade. LOL!

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this

N8,

check out the season CORY HART is having in milwaulkee .290,20,65. 21sb, .516 slugging % in only 400 ab’s. plays centerfield relatively well.

hes got 150 less at bats then francouer, or roughly 35 GAMES.

could be had for the right price.

By gotigers72

September 7, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this

The Braves are incapable of running off a 19-3 record, or whatever they would need to take the Wild Card, as long as they have to run Chuckie and Carlyle out there every 5 days. Anyone that can’t see that Carlyle is toast must not have been watching him over the last month to month and a half.

Cameron would be a nice fill in for a year or two, until Schafer is ready.

DOB - Didn’t Andruw start the year in A ball and make it to the bigs before the year was out? 1996, or whenever he was 19 years old and hit those 2 homers in his first 2 at bats at Yankee Stadium in the World Series?

By Jobu

September 7, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this

For those who think the Braves still have a chance for the wild card, consider this (from Jayson Stark’s Rumblings and Grumblings):

In the 12 seasons of the wild-card era, just one of the 24 wild-card teams was as many as three games back on Labor Day: the 2001 Cardinals. One asterisk: The ‘99 Reds were four out, came back and tied the Mets, but missed the playoffs because they lost in a one-game playoff the day after the regular season.

By David O'Brien

September 7, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this

Gotigers, so true on Carlyle. Fried. Not used to this many innings at this level, and teams have scouting reports on him by now. Not a good combination.

And yes, Andruw started out the 1996 season in Durham, moved up to Greenville after 66 games, then to Richmond after 38 games, and played 12 games at Richmond before moving up to Atlanta for 106 at-bats in 31 games.

Hit .217 in that brief stint with Atlanta. So I guess you could say in that small way, his career has come full circle with this season. Unfortunately for him and the Braves.

But I was not talking about A-ball to majors in one season. I was talking about going directly from A-ball TO the majors.

Quite a difference between Andruw’s jump and that of Furcal, who spent the entire 1999 season in Class A (Macon and Myrtle Beach), then the entire 2000 season with Atlanta, hitting .295 with .384 OBP and 40 steals at age 19, and winning NL Rookie of the Year.

Extremely rare.

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

N8,

so much for the ankiel feel good story. new york daily news is reporting that ankiel received a shipment of HGH just before 2006.

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

speaking of HGH didn’t you used to be MIQUEL TEJADA.

By David O'Brien

September 7, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this

UGA-Braves: Seriously, what’s your deal with Francoeur? I mean, you keep trying to get people to agree with you that he’s bad, and dude, he’s just not. Sorry, but there’s just nothing about Francoeur that makes most people believe he’s part of the problem. Rather, he’s one of the few players the Braves are honestly planning to build around, and for good reason.

He’s 23 years old, hitting .292 with 50 extra-base hits (16 homers) and 86 RBIs, on his way to his second consecutive 100-RBI season in his first two full seasons in the majors, and oh yeah, leading the majors in OF assists this season for certain and over the past two years combined, I think.

He plays hard, plays every single day, plays hurt, and is making $427,500, with a marginal raise due next year and not even up for arbitration until after the 2009 season or for free agency until after the 2011 season.

How on earth can you not see why Francoeur is a very attractive player to the Braves and would be to most teams, if not every team, in the majors?

Do home runs really mean that much to you? So if he had 25 homers right now, instead of 16, would he be a good player for you? If nine balls went 5 feet further and cleared the fences, would that make him a good player for you?

At the RF position, the Braves rank third in the NL in average (.291), tied for third in doubles (34), tied for seventh in homers (16), fourth in RBIs (86), 11th in OBP (.332), and seventh in slugging (.437).

Francoeur has played every game and all but five innings. Again, he leads the majors in OF assists, too.

As I’ve said, not saying he’s a superstar, but at 23, he’s a pretty darn solid young player. And there just aren’t scouts and talent evaluators who consider him anything but a strength for the Braves, certainly not a weakness, the way you do.

You need to pick another target. He’s not what’s wrong with the Braves. He really isn’t.

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

boy this davies-dotel trade has the potential to be the all time worst.

like many others i was screaming to get davies out of the rotation, but i really doubt we will ever see dotel toe the rubber for the braves again.

davies has not been great for the royals but his strikeouts have been very respectable. if he can get that ten cent head right, he just might turn into a very decent 3 hole pitcher.

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 1:44 AM | Link to this

DOB,

believe it or not i respect the heck out of francouer on and off the field, he plays hard does the best he can, succeed or not, it is not for lack of effort.

my only point is are we banking on him to be a cornerstone player? if we are then he is going to have to step up and prove that he is a first name kind of guy.

the braves could not have a better young ambassador off the field.

i guess i just thought he was going to have a breakthrough year.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 7, 2007 1:51 AM | Link to this

This is for the Braves fans who want to see some Braves playoff baseball. The Richmond Braves/ Scranton,WB Yankees series is being broadcast free through MILB. Thats live video , free , over the net. All you need to do is register some personal info in order to log in. Again , free televised AAA Richmond Braves playoff baseball.http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 7, 2007 2:09 AM | Link to this

By the way , I did watch the Richmond game , they lost 6-4. However , the youngsters are impressive. Brandon Jones , Gregor Blanco , Brent Lillibridge have big league potential. Barbaro Canizares is a name new to fans , but trust me , the scouts have mined another Cuban jewel and he has big leaguer written all over him.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 7, 2007 2:11 AM | Link to this

uga-brave , give it up my man , nobody is buying what your selling.

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this

dob,

i defintely hope he becomes an all-star, no off the field worries or drama. dont really see him involved in any dog fighting scandals. i do think it is going to take time to figure out where the holes in his swing are. reminds me of a young jermaine dye, both tall both had holes.

as for being a winner, no doubt he is. mechanically though that current swing is going to be prone to streaks and slumps. great players learn from their slumps and work to improve their weaknesses. i think he will do that over time. my god paul byrd is 14-5, back to one last thought.

i have been critical of him beacuse young or not i bought all of the early hype. thought he was going to be the next great thing, which in hindsight was unrealistic, and thats my fault. thanks for the blog DOB.

By fastasballs

September 7, 2007 2:23 AM | Link to this

I think Francoeur is having a heck of a year. His HR’s are down, but everything else is up. He’s still a kid, Murphy didn’t start seeing consistant power until he was in his mid to late 20’s. He’s never going to be a pure hitter like Chipper, different make up, different talents. I do think the off field power will come in a few years just like Murphys did.

The one stat I’m amazed at is his assists. I’m shocked anyone tries to run on him after last year. His arm saves as many runs as Andruws glove does.

He & McCann are going to be the face of this team quicker than we think. Once Chipper & Smoltz are gone who else is there? There’s a slew of talented players coming through the minors. Every year a few more get added & by 2009 or so this team will be loaded. Francoeur, McCann, KJ, & Escobar are already here. Brandon Jones & Lillibridge (the REAL value of the LaRoche trade) should make it next year. Schaefer soon to follow, plus a slew of potentially good arms in the lower minors that had good seasons this year.

Not all of those kids are going to flurish, but the good thing is there is a bunch more right behind them that look promising especially in the outfield & middle infield spots.

I think the Braves need more doubles & slap hitters. Playing 81 games at the Ted & countless more in pitchers parks, it would make more sense to have a few more guys like that. I think that’s one reason Diaz does so well, although he seems to hit anywhere. If they played 81 games a year in the Cincy band box I think their line up would be perfect.

I think Andruw leaving may be mutually beneficial. No other manager is going to let Andruw be “Andruw” at the plate. This “I’m a pull hitter only” crap won’t fly with anyone besides Cox. Can you imagine if the Angels signed him? Mike Scioscia would have smoke coming from his ears by the 3rd of spring training game after Andruw killed countless innings with 6-4-3 double plays.

Someone like Cameron or Rowand will make the offense more complete. We’ve all watched Cox too long & have fallen in love with the 3 run homer.

By AZBravoFan

September 7, 2007 2:25 AM | Link to this

DOB: Speaking of Carlyle, with limited days left in the season and a couple off days, do you think they could get by with a 4-man rotation? Or will they run Jo-Jo out there in the 5th spot? Although, I guess given Peavy’s performance yesterday, maybe it’s not such a good idea to have guys going on 3 days rest. Also, is anyone else out there completely unimpressed with Villareal’s work this year? Sure he eats up a lot of middle innings. But seems like he just contributes 1-3 runs to the fire every time he’s out there. Like some others on the staff, too many long balls. Nothing like the “Vulturereal” of last year.

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 2:26 AM | Link to this

hey coach,

how good do you think brandon jones is? who does he compare to.

By Serbok

September 7, 2007 2:28 AM | Link to this

My two cents~ I was fortunate enuff to see Neil Dperform Harvest in concert, he introduced a “new” young exciting artist,(In his words) named Linda Ronstadt. It was an Awesome night~ Neil had a string orchestra behind him. Was also fortunate to see him perform Rust never Sleeps. Was unfortunate to see him do Greendale:o( What a P!zzer that was! Without a doubt in my my he is one if not the best Poet of our time.

By Serbok

September 7, 2007 2:34 AM | Link to this

Also have to mention Harvest Moon *prarie wind written after he was told he had a brain anuerysm and wasnt expected to live much longer. What an awesome talent to go into a studio and put together such beautiful music thinkin his life was about to end!!!!! Prarie wind absolutely ranks with his All Time best!! He also did a little known tribute to flight 93 called “Lets Roll” thats pretty chillin~

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 2:38 AM | Link to this

fastballs,

good post agree with most everything. three guys i am never critical of jones, jones, and cox they have earned the right.

cox is stuborn to a point, right or wrong i still rue the day #6 is not in the dugout. as for andruw i believe the realization that this is his last year here got the best of him.

By AZBravoFan

September 7, 2007 2:38 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe how often Cameron’s name keeps coming up. That guy K’s 140-170 times a year. While that might make him fit right in with this team, we certainly don’t need another guy who can’t make contact. No matter how affordable he is. We need one of those Eckstein-type of players who have 15 pitch at bats and just keep fouling off balls until they get the pitch they want.

By uga-brave

September 7, 2007 2:48 AM | Link to this

cameron’s name keeps coming up because he is from here which along with those k’s would make him fit just right. if you dont have the money to get great players this current administration believes local boys put butts in the seats.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 7, 2007 2:48 AM | Link to this

Brandon Jones was drafted in the 24th round of the 2003 amateur draft but didn’t initially sign with the Braves , he joined the Braves as non-drafted free agent on May 18th 2004. I can’t really compare him to anybody at the moment , I’ve seen him play all of one game. He has steadily worked his way up through the Braves system in four seasons in the minors , so he is evidently doing something right. From what I saw , he is a solid young , athletic left fielder with speed , power and a good arm. Brandon Jones has plenty of potential but only time will tell if he is a big leaguer or not. I was more impressed with Barbaro Canizares , the young Cuban first baseman looks like he could play for the Atlanta Braves right now.

By Serbok

September 7, 2007 3:14 AM | Link to this

http://www.ajc.comhttp://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/06/dui-case-will-proceed-against-bucs-boston/?sports-bucs

Is David Boston under the influence? I think not~

By Serbok

September 7, 2007 3:52 AM | Link to this

(http://www.ajc.comhttp://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/06/dui-case-will-proceed-against-bucs-boston/?sports-bucs

By Paladin

September 7, 2007 7:53 AM | Link to this

I started through last night’s posts and at first I thought I had mistakenly been connected to N8’s e-mail. Then, it seemed it was UGA-Brave’s. But, I realized my mistake and scrolled through the rest of it.

By tbo

September 7, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this

Interesting reading the last two days. For my 2 cents, I repeat for the umpteenth time, Cox needs to go. His stubborn use of AJ, WH, Woodcrap, Tyler Yates, Villareal, Wickman, Thorman, etc is the primary reason this team did not succeed this year. Bye Bobby (I hope).

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

uga-brave and AZBravoFan,

From this date last year to the present Cameron is hitting .255/.340/.454 while playing half his games in quite possibly the best pitcher’s park in baseball.

In away games he is hitting .265/.346/.465.

I know he’s 34 and is likely to decline over the next couple of years but if the Braves can get him at under the $7 million he’s getting this season for a couple of season, he’ll be a solid pickup.

Don’t pay too much attention to his strikeouts. How often you make outs is a heck of a lot more important than how you make them.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 7, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I forgot about Everybody Knows this is Nowhere, but Harvest and Pink Floyd’s Animals were the first two albums I bought when my mind graduated from BS Jr. High popular crap to the real stuff. I actually bought it for Heart of Gold and Old Man, but now I tend to skip over those and rock out Alabama, Out on the Weekend, and Words between the lines of age. Anyway, So I guess that’s why I’ll always reflect back to those two albums as my personal musical saviors. My God, I’m glad I saw the light.

Also, Stu Moseley, (and DOB),

The reason Cowgirl in the Sand and Down By the River sound so much alike is because Neil wrote them, along with Cinnamon Girl, all in one day while sitting at home in the bed with the flu. How’s that for an intriguing story. Three classics in one day when he wasn’t feeling his best.

By Lee in S. GA

September 7, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Arkansas Hillbilly

Oddly enough I was listening to Pink Floyd’s Animals in the CD of my car yesterday. It has a scratch I supposed I will have to replace it because it is my all time favorite Pink Floyd album even tough Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall apparently are the top sellers and most popular.

By Lee in S. GA

September 7, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Reflecting back over several posts concerning Mike Cameron, I figure he will definitely be a target of consideration for the Braves. Do not picture Diaz playing in RF. He will remain in LF and it still would not surprise me to see stubborn Cox platoon him regularly. With Francoeur’s cannon arm, I cannot see him being moved either. If Cameron does not work out, I look for a trade for an average type CF.

I would like to see a couple of starters added to this team but I fear it may be only one. Smoltz, Hudson, and James will start. Hampton, if healthy enough, will also. Cormier may be a possible reserve starter; however, I do see an attempt to acquire one starter. Carlyle is a question mark about even remaining

By Efrim

September 7, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

UGA Brave

Hey man, I thought Francouer was going to have a breakthrough year as well. I understand your frustrations with him, .772 OPS and all, not a great number. But the guy is the type of player that you want to build around. He has a lot of guts. As solid a player as you can get. No, he isn’t David Wright, Jose Reyes, Chase Utley or Ryan Howard, but he is younger than all of those guys I just mentioned, and the guy is getting better. Great arm, tons of power. Lots of intangibles. Yes, at some point, if he is to EVER reach his potential, he has to start walking more. So does McCann for that matter. A .333 OBP is just not going to cut it for a guy many want to be our cleanup hitter at some point.

But he is only 23 years old. He is going to become a much better hitter by age 27. I have no doubt he is going to be a .290/.350/.500 hitter who hits 30 homeruns, 40 doubles, and 110 Rbi’s annually.

And he has a cannon for an arm.

By Efrim

September 7, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Well said on Cameron. How’s 2 years and 16 million for him, with a team option for 2010 for another 8 million. He can still pick it in CF and is a solid enough hitter. If we do sign him though, that spells the end for Renteria. Not sure if we would be able to afford him. And we would probably have to receive a pitcher that makes nothing in return for him.

I guess Noah Lowry wouldn’t be too bad, but the kid has walked just as many batters as he has struck out. I smell Horacio Ramirez if we trade for Lowry.

By Efrim

September 7, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Of course that 500 SLUG for Frenchy would not translate into 30 home runs and 40 doubles. That would mean hie would be slugging something like 550. Oh well, the guy is great.

By Paladin

September 7, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Two hours of blogging and no one has put Frenchy in CF, yet. Keep it up guys. I’m proud of you.

By Program Director

September 7, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

I started through last night’s posts and at first I thought I had mistakenly been connected to N8’s e-mail. Then, it seemed it was UGA-Brave’s. But, I realized my mistake and scrolled through the rest of it.

From 8 until 8 everyday, Paladin plays the Statler and Waldorf of the show, making fun of one and all. From 8 until 4 everyday, Shaun pounds you into statistical submission, making you feel like you have suffered paralysis by statistical analysis. Uga Brave and Braves Dave do the depressing graveyard shift. And boy is it depressing with those 2 sad sacks. The Vampire Serbok only comes out at night. Robert drops in with a barrage of attacks all day, every day. You give Robert 22 minutes, he’ll give you the Donk.

BTW, DOB, in case you did not know, Dale Murphy moved from catcher to centerfield. I think McCann could too, don’t ya think? Lemme know. :->

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 7, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Are you people insane? Francoeur is not having a breakout year? He is 23 and has already shown the poise and willingness to listen to change his ways that while working in lower levels didn’t at the major league level. Has it occurred to any of you Frenchy bashers that his homerun production is down because he concentrated on becoming a better hitter for average. Everything is a process. He knew how to hit for power at the big league level but not for average. A true superstar can do both.

Look at Puljos, Vlad, Beltran, ARod, Big Pappi, Manny, and Ryan Howard. Those guys not only crush homeruns but hit for a high average. The homerun is way too valued. I could care less that Francoeur only has 16 homers. By any reasonable sane account he is having a better season this year than last year. It is not even close.

I cringed last year when he came up with runners on base because I knew it was all or nothing. Either he homered or he struckout or hit some pathetic popup. This year he has walked, taken the ball the other way, and just concentrated on getting a hit.

Honestly, does anybody remember how many weak popups Francoeur hit last year behind home plate and to foul territory behind 1B? Remember the sad grounders he would hit to SS. Now, how often have we seen that this year. Francoeur went from doing that one and two times a game last year to barely doing it one or two times a week. The kid has matured and done so nicely.

Lets no forget that in a perfect world Frenchy would still be in the minors and making his big league debut in 2008, but situtations dictated otherwise and he was forced to play in Atlanta before the Braves really wanted him to or even thought he was truly ready.

I think the kid has done pretty good considering. Look at Utley’s and Reyes’ numbers and see how many seasons it took them to hit that special level. You’ll see that Francoeur is right on schedule.

By Lew

September 7, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Y’all are Pink Floyd novices. I bought my first Floyd album in 1967-Piper At The Gates of Dawn-younguns!

Now baseball-What’s all this crap about Francoeur? All last season there was constant p!$$!ng and moaning, wailing, gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands about his wild, indiscriminate swinging and lack of plate discipline. So far this season, his batting average has risen from .260 to .292. He has walked ten more times in 100 less AB, his OBP has risen from .293 to .343, he has (so far) struck out 21 less times (in 100 fewer AB) and hit 10 more 2B. His errors have decreased from 9 to 3 and his outfield assists have risen by 6. Since coming to the bigs he has thrown out 43 runners-the most in the ML in that time and he leads the league in assists again this season. 9 less HR? What in the hell do you want from the 23 year old kid? He identified weaknesses and improved substantially upon them. Every young player is a work in progress. At least this young player is cognizant of his deficiencies and has worked damn hard to improve on them. He has a bright and long future in front of him. He will continue to develop. If Andruw Jones can be considered a superstar (and don’t kid yourselves, despite this season, he is) when he consistently hits .265 (until this year), and refuses to make adjustments, then what does that make a kid 7 years younger who DOES make those adjustments? Who says he’s not a superstar? Francoeur will be one of the stars for years to come.

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

No, he isn’t David Wright, Jose Reyes, Chase Utley or Ryan Howard

Wright, Utley and Howard are great players. All 4 of these guys are, but Reyes is more hype. Jose Reyes began his career with seasonal OPS levels of:
.796, .644, .687, .841, and a whopping .796 this season. So far, Francoeur is outpacing Reyes in this department… .884, .742 and .772. He has dramatically improved his approach at the plate. He’s power is “down” right now, but he should end the season with as many total bases or more as last season. He already has more doubles. His triples have dropped off (odd since this season seems like the year of the rebirth of the triple). But his power will return. If he continues to improve on his approach at the plate and pitch recognition, he’s power will naturally follow. We all know he has the strength to hit 30+ HR.

But to continue on Reyes… playing for the Mets has increased his exposure, but he is not the best young shortstop in the division, let alone league or majors. That would be Hanley Ramirez. Ramirez is far better than Reyes. He only has two seasons under his belt right now, but so far he his improving himself each season in every category. He has put up an OPS of .833 and .952. He hits for a better average (.292 and .333), more power (17HR, 24HR), and has reduced his strike/BB ration dramatically this season and he’s improved his stolen base success rate. He steals 50+ a season. Too bad the kid plays in Florida. If he were in a bigger market you’d never stop hearing about him.

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

then the entire 2000 season with Atlanta, hitting .295 with .384 OBP and 40 steals at age 19, and winning NL Rookie of the Year.

Was he really 19? Wasn’t there some sort of DUI/Police interaction that resulted in his age increasing over night?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 7, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

I say we put Frenchy in CF and let B. Jones play RF next season…….Kidding, Paladin.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

September 7, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Lew, I totally agree on Francoeur. He has actually exceeded my expectations this season, based on 2006. Never in a million years would I have expected him to be knocking at the door of .300 this year. And why, oh why, do fools continue to run on that arm. He’s every opposing 3rd base coaches worst nightmare.

And by the way, I’m not a PF novice. I just don’t have the longevity that you have so I’ve crammed all of their music into a shorter time period. I wasn’t even a gleam in my daddy’s eye yet in 1967…..Old Man ;- )

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

I agree Ramirez is the better player. But Reyes is no slouch. One thing to consider is Reyes was/is very young so we should cut him some slack on his stats, as far as what kind of player he’s likely to be in his prime.

I think it’s more Ramirez is under-hyped than Reyes is over-hyped. But I agree with your overall argument.

By ncscoots

September 7, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

TPaul, good notes on Ramirez…I think he’d be playing 3B if not for Cabrera, but that takes nothing away from his work at SS. Strong as dirt.

Not that any Muts fan or ESPN analyst would ever agree, LOL.

By Joe Schmoe

September 7, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Look, let’s stop all the Frenchy in CF talk. What we really need to do is make a trade for Rocco Baldelli…kidding.

Next years outfield will consist of a platoon(we all know how much Bobby loves them, especially with rookies) of B. Jones and Diaz in LF, Frenchy in RF, and either a one year rental of Andruw or someone from outside the organization picked up via free agency or trade playing CF. Harris is a utility guy and Blanco is a 4th outfielder at best.

We can at least be content with the fact that our infield and catcher are set. We have 3 spots to fill in my eyes: CF, one more starter, and one more veteran reliever(maybe). It’s just too bad those are the holes we’ve had all this year as well.

By Braveheart

September 7, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

What are you folks talking about with Frenchy? He has made GREAT strides this year as a hitter. GREAT strides. Last year, he was just a puncher. This year, he is turning into a boxer. He’s not all the way there yet but he is making great strides towards that.

Last year, he was like what Mike Tyson sadly became: a puncher who threw no combinations, no jabs, did not set his opponents up, and just lazily looked to uppercut people to death.

Like Tyson, Frenchy is so talented that last year he could feast on bad pitchers and be useless against good pitchers. Tyson in the last 15 years has been the same way. Able to beat tomato cans to a pulp but gets pulverized by good boxers.

Chipper indicated that in the Captain Caveman blog earlier this year. Frenchy is becoming much more balanced. Like Chipper always says, a hitter should aim to drive the ball through the centerfield wall. This enables them to be able to read and react and drive the ball to whatever side of the field he should based upon pitch location. Frenchy is slowly learning that. Andruw learned that in 2000 but decided afterwards to be a lazy puncher like Tyson and no longer be a boxer.

I really admire Frenchy as a 23 year old to be tough enough to withstand sacrificing some power. That has to be really hard for a 23 year old to do. He basically sacrificed his calling card. Not many 23 year olds are willing and/or able to do that. Instead, they typically panic and become stubborn and never develop. Frenchy is growing and learning and still playing pretty darn good while he’s at it.

With that being said, he is not a centerfielder. Could he play it adequately enough? Yes. But, in so doing, you weaken right field for the sake of having an average centerfielder. For example, KJ in left, Frenchy in center, Diaz in right would be a really weak defensive outfield.

By Salty

September 7, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Scoots Off topic, but close to our hearts: you enjoyed Monday night at the Valley?!? :-)

By Efrim

September 7, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

TennPaul

Ramirez is amazing, but its not like Reyes is nothing to write home about. He has had a down year. He was much better last year.

In terms of my arguement of Frenchy, listen the guy is an unbelieveable player with mass amounts of potential. But OPS is the best stat in evaluating a player’s worth to their team. The best stat. Francouer has a 772 OPS. He is great, but before we rank him as a hall of famer, understand that isn’t a great number.

By David O'Brien

September 7, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

Joe Schmoe, good post at 11:27 a.m. I’ve got a similar view of the plans/needs heading to offseason. That could change, of course — going into last year’s offseason, I didn’t think they’d trade a still-very-affordable LaRoche, for instance. But as of today, I’d pretty much agree with your assessment.

By Thrillhouse44

September 7, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Amazing how the Braves are often criticized for always going for the long ball and never playing “small ball”. Today we’re piling on Francoeur for raising his batting average while decreasing his homers. Doesn’t make much sense. I’m glad he’s not swinging for the fences every at bat now. He’s become a hitter - not just a slugger; though he does still have pop. The kid has it figured out.

By David O'Brien

September 7, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Program Director, very funny post at 10:27. And accurate.

But no, I don’t see McCann moving to the outfield. And CERTAINLY not to center — ever, under any circumstances.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 7, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul , I would still go with Reyes if I had to chose between the two of them. Ramirez has better power numbers across the board than Reyes this season. However , you left out one very important detail , Reyes is a switch hitter , Ramirez isn’t. Nobody motors from first to third faster than Reyes does. Don’t get me wrong , I think Hanley Ramirez is a superstar in the making , he just needs another season like this one (2007) to establish himself. He already has a rookie of the year award. Reyes has two all-star appearances and a silver slugger award. Reyes obviously has the advantage of playing in New York and he is established. Ramirez is definitely a better combination of speed and power , but Reyes is pure speed , a switch hitter and a game breaker. Maybe in the future Hanley Ramirez will surpass Jose but for the moment I have to go with Reyes because as they say in baseball : SPEED KILLS.

By Lee in S. GA

September 7, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

The kid in the wheelchair from the Bad News Bears could cover more ground that McCann could in CF.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 7, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Efrim, you are right. However, the OPS argument would also cement that Ramirez is a better player than Reyes.

By Paladin

September 7, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Program Director and Dob Does that mean I an get a raise? :>) And PD, I have some “help” doing my daytime shtick. You don’t know who that is, do you? :>)

Now baseball. One of the reasons that you do not put Frenchy in CF is who else in the organization do we have that can dig one out of the RF corner and throw a runner out at 3B? The answer? No one.

By Program Director

September 7, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

That’s a shame DOB. Kind of a waste to have someone who is so mad quick playing catcher. They need to let that McCann kid roam center like a gazelle, climbing walls like Otis. Oh well, I guess I’ll have to settle for having a 2 time 23 year old catcher.

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Payne: You say One thing to consider is Reyes was/is very young so we should cut him some slack on his stats… There is only a 6 month difference between these two players (Jose: June 83, Hanely: December 83). So should we cut Hanely some slack as well? I’m not sure “age” is a good enough qualifier when conversing about the differences between Ramirez and Reyes. For all intents and purposes, they are the same age and Ramirez is still out performing him. I’m not saying Reyes is terrible, but he is not as good as the hype builds him up to be. That type of hype is fulfilled by Ramirez.

Efrim: Again, I’m not saying Reyes is bad. But I do think he is over hyped. You say OPS is the best stat in evaluating a player’s worth to their team but the fact of the matter is, Reyes has 1 season with an OPS over .800. At least give Francoeur more time. He showed the world what he could be his first half season. Then he displayed a ton of power his next full season. And this season he has shown everyone he is a smart hitter, able to make adjustments and improve himself. If he keeps it up, his OPS will increase.
You mentioned Utley in your talk about what Francour is not… Take a look at Utley’s career:
First year up: .239 AVG .696 OPS
First full year: .266 AVG .776 OPS.
From there on out he’s hit about .295 with a .900 OPS. There’s hope for Francoeur yet. I suspect next year he’ll have a fabulous season.

I’m not sure why or how one could say Reyes is performing on the superstar level with a career OPS of .760 and then turn around and say Francoeur isn’t all that special while performing with a career .776 OPS. I’d say it’s a double standard, but I’m not even sure that covers it.

But, as a final qualifier, Reyes, Francoeur, Utley, Howard, Ramirez, Wright… these are all fine players with great futures ahead of them and I wouldn’t mind having anyone of them on my team… But, I’d pick Ramirez over Reyes any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

By Program Director

September 7, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Yes, Paladin. I do know. But never mind that man behind the curtain. He is still trying to figure out if you are Statler and he is Waldorf or vice versa.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Here’s what Nate Silver of Baseball Prospecuts had to say about both players when they ranked the 50 most valuable at the beginning of this season:

No. 7. Jose Reyes, SS, Mets, Age 24. PECOTA had Wright as being quite a bit more valuable than Reyes prior to the start of this season, and I was ready to stand firm by its conclusion, in spite of some aggressive campaigning by Mets fans to the contrary. But I’ve gone with Reyes in the end, not because of what he’s doing, but because of how he’s doing it. In particular, his newfound propensity to draw walks is extremely interesting. This was a player who drew just 27 walks in 2005, his first full major league season; he already has 18 this year. What taking walks does for a leadoff hitter is make him slump-proof. Reyes isn’t going to hit .345 every month; he’s going to have months when he hits .270. But if you can post a .360 OBP when you’re hitting .270, you’re still doing your team a lot of good. Reyes has worked with Rickey Henderson, and he has the chance to become the best pure leadoff hitter since his mentor.

No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23. As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he’s six months younger. Second, he’s at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value — you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.

By Paladin

September 7, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

You are a Waldorf salad, with nut(s) on top.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

Oh, I wasn’t disagreeing at all the Ramirez is the better player. He clearly is. And Reyes certainly may be over-hyped in some circles. But I think the perception of these two players has more to do with Ramirez being under-hyped than Reyes being over-hyped. Just a very subtle difference of opinion, I suppose.

I guess I just think Reyes does deserve plenty of hype. But I’m in agreement that Ramirez deserves more.

By Paladin

September 7, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

I’m going and take my nap and dream up more mischief. Y’all can spend the time reading Shaun’s last post. Jeese, Shaun, you will have to have them bound if they get much longer.

Anyway, when I return who will I be? Only the Shadow knows.

By Renegator

September 7, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

DOB:

What’s the word on Wickman? Are we just going to dump him? Do you think anyone will sign him?

By Anders

September 7, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Tenesse Paul Reyes is hype? That’s an ignorant statement. The guys one of, if not the best leadoff hitter in baseball. He’s the most dynamic player in the game without a doubt. Always plays hard and is improving in Every important aspect of the game. I have no issue with Ramirez but let’s see him do it for a couple of more years first -ok? Also, this whole NY advantage thing I don’t get. Many players find it hard to play in NY because everything is magnified (Known here as the Ed Whitson effect). Reyes has dealt with that tremendously at a very early age. Ramirez is playing in what DOB called last week the worst market in baseball. Who knows how he’d play with a little pressure on him and teams gunning for him rather than shaking off the effects of a night out on South Beach the night before. BTW- I wouldn’t leave Rollins out of this discussion either.

By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)

September 7, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

I’ll break it down to where the rubber meets the road between Hanley Ramirez/Jose Reyes. Ramirez is the better player , Reyes is the better leadoff hitter.

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Payne: I never read Baseball Prospectus, but it’s cool to see the same thing I’m saying said by one of their number crunchers…

Coach: Speed is good, but you know who went from 1st to 3rd more times last season than any other player? Albert Pujols. And Ramirez has speed as well to go along with his power and better hitting abilities. Reyes OBP .365. Ramirez .390. Ramirez is just the better player. No two ways about it.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

I think Ramirez is clearly more valuable than Reyes but I think Reyes is clearly more valuable than Francoeur.

When you just look at OPS it assumes OBP and SLG should be weighted equal. But OBP is much more telling as far as value and contributing to wins. Reyes has posted OBP of .354 and .365 the last two seasons, his age 23 and 24 seasons. And his walk totals are 53 and 66 (so far). Francoeur had a horrible OBP last season and is just respectable this season.

Francoeur will no doubt get better but if I had to put a lot of money on it, I’d say Reyes is and will be more valuable in each player’s primes.

I think it’s easy to say Reyes is performing at a superstar level over the past two season and should continue for a while. His career numbers don’t do him justice because he’s a much better player over the last two seasons and he’s likely to remain one of the better players in the game. To say that he’s not a superstar is to assume players’ abilities remain stagnant.

Again, not trying to say Reyes is better than Ramirez or that Francoeur is not going to be a good or even great player. Just saying Reyes is more valuable than Francoeur.

By ncscoots

September 7, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Salty, ab-so-damn-lutely, my friend. Speed kills, eh? The thing that got my attention was Jacoby Ford sprinting PAST Spiller to try to throw a block down the sideline. Too scary, that. I’m told Ford is still a little undisciplined in his routes, but, mercy. Call Zoom-20 six times a game and he might lead the conference in TDs. Good to see Billie back at LB, too. Defense looks good this year, just sick speed from the front seven back. It’s good to have stripes this year, buddy!

By David O'Brien

September 7, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Renegator, fact that no one has signed Wickman or traded for him should indicate the level of interest.

By ncscoots

September 7, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Joe Schmoe’s tongue-in-cheek on Baldelli reminds me…this offeason, could we just designate someone to write the daily Carl Crawford/Chone Figgins/Ryan Freel post, signed with a suitable moniker? So the rest of us can immediately see what’s coming with the post, and scroll quickly away before being infected?

I’d like that.

By Anders

September 7, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Coach Speaking of rubber that may describe Ramirez’s hands. Reyes has 8 errors in 137 games this year .986 fp. Ramirez has 21 errors in 130 games .961 fp. Being shortstops I consider that a pretty important aspect as Players* - Thoughts?

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Payne: I can live with that. I don’t dislike Reyes. But when I watch Ramirez I see a much better player.

As for a leadoff hitter… It isn’t Hanely’s fault he doesn’t lead off more often. Neither he nor Reyes make the line up card. But here it is, the leadoff split:
Player AVG OBP SLG
Reyes .290 .332 .422
Ramirez .342 .400 .626

In half as many appearances leading off (still quire enough though to get an idea… about 500 compared to Reyes’ 1000) Ramirez has hit more HR (22) than Reyes (16), close to the same number of doubles (37) as Reyes (49) and smilar triples (11) as Reyes (17).
Ramirez is simply the better player. He’d have the national tag of “most dynamic player in the NL” if he played in a larger market. Reyes though, is the better defender. But Ramirez’s offensive production makes up for it and then some.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Let’s see, Rollins ranks 10th among ML SS in OBP. If you want to talk over-hyped I think Rollins fits that definition.

I do think Ramirez is getting more and more attention and people are starting to realize he’s the better player so the NY affect may be a little overstated, although I think it’s clear it’s still there. Or it could be just people overrating steals and speed and ignoring the huge edge Ramirez has in getting on base and hitting for power, which are more valuable.

By Tech-Rat

September 7, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

What the …………

(a) ref: 1:07 post

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

What is the difference between the Yankees and the Braves? They have all kind of pitching problems, no pitching, since they have a 0.32 higher ERA than the braves, i know they are in the AL, but the Redsox and the Jays, teams in their are 2nd and 3rd only behing the padres in the majors. So if this yankees team has managed to respond to adversity, how come the braves have not, and they are not even close. Do they have much more offense and much more talent than we do? Yes they are more dangerous offensively than us, but, its not like they so far ahead of us on those aspects.

Why didnt they give up and have managed to pass the tigers and mariners? And we are heading the other way……

Is it only because they are the yankees?, i guess that means that being the braves doesnt means anything. We dont get anyone scared anymore. Teams still respect the yankees, AL teams see them as a force, even the sox. Here in the NL not even the reds nor nats think that about us. Cellar teams know that if they play up the their potential they can even sweep us or win series.

Hope the braves return to supremacy before the decade is over, i really dont see it coming next year, not to be negative, but we still dont have those great pitchers that we need and there is a chance they dont get that must needed ACE. Until i see 2 great pitchers on the field, i have to think next year will have the same ending as this one. Even if hampton is one of those pitchers, but we still dont know if hampton will be ok.

By ssiscribe

September 7, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

In two weeks, we’ve moved from talking about the postseason to discussing the Carl Crawford offseason watch …

Damn, I hate it when the season’s almost over. At least Vegas is getting closer.

Scoots, great idea though :-)

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Did anyone notice how Chipper went kind of cold once renteria went down? Obviously he is not getting as many hittable balls. He dropped his avg, not that much, but he was really hot in july so he went as high as 2nd and i think he even was the AVG leader, he came out of nowhere (10th or lower). He started climbing till he became leader. Edgar goes down and he is down to 6th. You people that think it would be smart to let edgar go, better think twice!!!!!!!

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Payne: Yeah, I’m not saying Francoeur has surpassed Reyes yet in “value”. Just that he’s only had 2 full seasons in the pros and has earned the right to be given more of a chance before tossing him to the curb. And, based on the comment that OPS is the single biggest measuring stick, Francoeur actually has the higher OPS. Debate as you will on the OPS function, I was merely pointing to the numerical value.

In each players primes we shall see who’s more valuable. Anything could happen between then and now.

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

I dont mean that chipper is cold, he is not, but he has not been doing what he was since edgar went down.

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

Its amazing how the redsox have won that many games and ortiz and manny are not among leaders in AVG RBI HR. Talk about balance.

By ncscoots

September 7, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

scribe, notice that I only brought it up after Joe, though, and only in terms of preventative action, LOL. I’m not ready to start thinking trade scenarios and offseason moves yet, at all. Premature.

By Braveheart

September 7, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Turns out Ankiel has used HGH as well. Who hasn’t at this point? One of the feel good stories of the summer gets ruined. Sort of. I still feel good for the kid. I presume they are all doing it now and that they are negligent in not using HGH.

By Ron Roberts

September 7, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Efrim, you’d talked earlier about Mike Cameron, and the Braves’ signing him spelling the buh-bye of Edgar Renteria. That’s sorta the basis of my posts yesterday. I’m not saying it comes down to this, but if the Braves had to decide between internally positioning the outfield and using the $5-7 million on Edgar OR getting Cameron for CF, I’d go with spending on Edgar.

This lineup does not need another mediocre-hitting, strikeout-inducing outfielder. Haven’t we all been frustrated enough with that out of Andruw Jones? We can get Yunel in the lineup everyday at 2B, and the same for (my vote for this season’s team MVP) Kelly Johnson at LF by moving Diaz to RF and Francoeur to CF. That also keeps allllll our off-season free agent focus on one thing… P I T C H I N G.

I’m not saying Fancoeur would match Andruw’s defensive antics at CF, but he wouldn’t be an embarrassment out there, either. I think us long-timer fans might hearken back to how Dale Murphy was in CF and think comparatively.

And anybody (UGABrave) that doesn’t think Jeff Francoeur is a “cornerstone” player for this franchise needs to consider a few points…

1. There are four corners to a building, usually, and I’d say Jeff’s one of this team’s four best players under 30 - bar none.

2. If an expansion franchise had to start with Brian McCann, Jeff Francoeur, Yunel Escobar and Kelly Johnson as their four “cornerstone” players, they’d be starting off damn well, wouldn’t they?

Folks look at Jeff Francoeur, I think, and wonder why he’s not like Ryan Howard or Albert Pujols. Ryan’s not a hit-for-average guy. He sorta reminds me of Andruw at the plate, frankly; giving you all or nothing. Albert Pujols is just flat-our special; future Hall-of-Famer that not many other players in the game will compare to, outside of A-Rod.

Will Jeff Francoeur ever become a “superstar” player? It’s possible; I mean, look, the guy can play defense and sometimes dazzle us with the glove and arm; he’s shown that he can hit for power and that he can hit for average, too. If he gets to the point where he does both with regularity, he’s a bonafide All-Star and marque player.

But if he only hits for average and knocks 20-25 HRs and 100-ish RsBI, then that’s more than enough for me.

By Hammy the Brave

September 7, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Sorry for putting the cart before the horse, with the early offseason trade spec. I’m just frustrated that I believe the Braves haven’t had a legitimate playoff team since 2004.

What do you hear about anyone close to signing Bob Wickman? I guess there’s no possibility now the Braves could get any compensation in trade for him.

How much talk have you heard from Braves people about Brandon Jones, Lilibridge, JC Holt, Manny Acosta, Joey Devine, Jose Ascanio and Phil Stockman being in their plans for next year?

A question for the scouting dept. With their lack of starting rotation depth, will they change their drafting philosophy to start drafting college starters now? The SF Giants have 2 good young starters to show for this, and the Braves seem to have used this philosophy to draft several college relievers in the past 2 drafts.

Hammy the Brave

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts I agree on that, Cameron is not an upgrade at CF.

You have to wonder if yunel could play RF…… he has a cannon and he is a smart athlete, young so he could adapt to the role.

Is that a crazy thought???? To tell you the truth i think yunel would do better in RF than matt, they could do a conversion just like they did to kelly.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

Fair enough. Just think Reyes has clearly been the better player and showed a lot better command of the strike-zone at a younger age (and at a year older). Odds are Francoeur isn’t going to make that big a jump while Reyes declines significantly, so you have to take Reyes and I don’t think the choice is that close.

Again, not saying I wouldn’t love to have Francoeur as my right fielder for the next 8 years. I’d just rather have Reyes as my SS given the choice. Of course, I’d rather have Ramirez as my SS if I had to make a choice between all three scenarios.

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

Only position players that should leave are AJ and woodcrap.

How many of you would like to see Thorman on the bench again next year?

I dont know if this guy is going to get better. I hope i could read some opinions on him. I just see him as another klesko and AJ and i dont like does kind of players. HR or K.

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: The off season should be focused on Pitching, but I’m not sure Money is going to solve that problem. I’ve looked at the list of free agents… it’s not pretty. I have a feeling it will have to come via trade. And trading means some of the parts we have now might have to be moved, which would result in offseason free agent speending on a position player. But I agree with you… I not sold on Cameron. No more K machines. I’m tired of watching guys go up there in a situation ready to score and striking out.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Here’s an interesting discussion: Where do we draw the line? What if Ankiel was using HGH when it wasn’t banned and just to speed up the recovery from injury process? Guys take cortisone shots quite often when they have nagging injuries.

Obviously we don’t want healthy guys taking steroids so they can go from 20 homers a year to 50 but there’s a gray area in between this and recovering from injury.

Not saying Ankiel is a saint or that he made it back legitimately. But where should the line be drawn between using substances to get healthier and using substances to gain an unfair advantage?

I’m not saying I’m defending Ankiel or Bonds or whomever, but this is something that should be debated as medical chemistry continues to influence the game.

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

I dont think there is much to say about Jeff and Reyes, Jeff is a great player, as i mentioned yesterday, he is the best RF braves have had since Murphy and i think he could get better than murphy, but he cant take over the control of a game as reyes can. Reyes DF is as good as Jeffs. He is more patient at the plate and he is faster. He does not has the power but jeff is not as big time slugger.

How many games have the mets owe to reyes alone? tons. Can we say the same about jeff? dont think so.

What about playoffs?

What do you think are the chances of muts winning a playoff series if reyes goes down last day of the season? id say they would drop by half.

Not the case if jeff goes down in case the braves were to go into the postseason.

By Joe Schmoe

September 7, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB…

I have sort of a random question. Is this the last of Devine’s options or does he have one more year?

By Anders

September 7, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Tenessee Paul Come on now. You’re comparing Francoeur’s value to Reyes. That’s not even a remote comparison at this point. While Francoeur plays right field as well as anyone you can’t compare it to playing shortstop. That’s like saying the best tight end in football is as valuable as the best running back - Can’t be true. Reyes has a shot at a gold glove as well this year. Reyes is a leadoff hitter and is probably the best in the game at it. He is the first guy to steal 70 + bases in over 10 years I believe. Francoeur bats down in a lineup that I keep hearing is the Best in Baseball so I’d certainly expect him to get his share of RBI. For god sakes even the hated Andruw has 84 RBI with a .225 avg in that lineup. At this point Francoeur has shown that he’s a good player who can produce runs and play an exceptional right field. He is not a superstar and that’s not just because he plays in Atlanta and not NY. That certainly didn’t hurt Chipper Jones’ career. Ramirez vs. Reyes I can tolerate. Reyes vs. Francoeur I have to draw the line - sorry.

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Anders: I never said Reyes is all hype in the sense that he isn’t good and doesn’t deserve any media attention… just over hyped when considering Ramirez is in the same division and producing more. The “over hype” stems from his NY team location… take Payne’s point… Reyes isn’t “over hyped” as much as Ramirez is “under hyped”. Whatever suits your fancy. To hear the talk on Reyes, one would think that he is the best of the best and no one is better, but in fact Ramirez is better. Better at hitting. Better at drawing walks. Better at power. Better at leadoff when given the opportunity. Efficient at base stealing and improving in all these categories from one year to the next. And younger. Reyes reminds me of Furcal (they have identical lead off numbers). But I’d still rather have Ramirez than either of those guys.

By Paladin

September 7, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

I returned but after reading even more of the incessant rant about Reyes/Ramirez And Ron Roberts extended brain-flatulence(man, that took a buildup)that included his Frenchy-in-CF mantra, I’m exhausted. I’m going back to bed.

By Lee in S. GA

September 7, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Strikeout machine, one of the less expensive CF’s on the market, lives in Atlanta area, no true proven CF within the Braves organization, all of this spells one sure thing……bring out your tissues and start the crying, Cameron is as good as a Brave now.

Just do not see Cox revamping the complete outfield situation.

If a descent pitcher is acquired through a trade the Braves are going to have to trade someone besides Thorman. I am not convinced Renteria alone will bring a good quality starter.

By Hammy the Brave

September 7, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Coach,

Thanks so much for the minor league scouting reports on Richmond Brave players.

Have you seen Lillibridge play second base at all? I’m still of a mind that Blanco is a centerfield option for us next year, if we get a righty power/speed guy for left.

What can you tell us about Richmond pitching prospects? What kind of stuff does Phil Stockman have, and can he stay healthy at all? Does Joey Devine have a changeup, can he get out lefties, and can he close? Don’t you think Buddy Hernandez could be better in long relief than Villareal, and what does he throw? How Good does Francisco Bueno look(could he be close to majors?), and what does he throw? Is Blaine Boyer throwing hard again, and does he look comfortable as a starter? How did Royce Ring look(is he a soft tosser basically?) and can he get out righties, as well as lefties?

Thanks for the info,

Hammy the Brave

By David O'Brien

September 7, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Reyes and H. Ramirez are both tremendous players. Personally, I’d probably take Reyes because of his proven leadoff ability, blinding speed, and the fact that he’s prospered in the bright lights and heavy scrutiny. But I don’t know. It got a lot closer this season with Ramirez’s second stellar season, for sure. Close to a dead heat, for me.

NOW, boys girls, ladies and gents, let’s take this party over to a NEW BLOG that’s POSTED NOW.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

September 7, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

I just read on mlbtraderumors.com that Torri Hunter is looking for a 5yr/$70 mil deal. I think that deal would be great for the Braves. That is basically what the Braves are paying Andruw now and lets be honest. Hunter is a better all around player. Sure, he will be 37 when his contract is up but it would be no different than going after 35 year old Mike Cameron for a 2yr/$26-$30 mil deal. And, surely nobody thinks Cameron is a better player.

Andruw will likely accept nothing less than $17 mil a year and somebody (Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, White Sox) will give it to him. Hunter would be a great addition to this team not only on the field but in the clubhouse. He has a great personality and his so laid back. Yet, he has the intensity you like to see in a pro athlete.

I think JS would be foolish not to make a serious run at Hunter.

By wjones

September 7, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

As to what Renteria would bring in a trade, think back to what we gave up to get him—Andy Marte, a highly regarded prospect, but a prospect nonetheless. Two years later, Edgar has upped his stock with two solid years, but is two years older, and right now is injured. I’m just not absolutely certain that he will bring us a lot more than he brought Boston.

By Ron Roberts

September 7, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Paladin… I don’t recall ever having cross words with or for you, dude. People will treat you with respect when you do the same. Maybe you’d be better-served using a little more buildup before coming across in a prickish manner. Your opinions are no more or less valuable than anybody elses here, nor are mine. Agree or disagree (with some actual discussion, if that’s not asking too much) or bypass the whole thing, k?

By Einstein

September 7, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

And DOB while you are answering Hammy’s queries, could you give us your opinion on E = MC(squared). And I have a follow-up.

By David O'Brien

September 7, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Reyes and H. Ramirez are both tremendous, top-tier players. Personally, I’d probably take Reyes because of his proven leadoff ability, blinding speed, and the fact that he’s prospered in the bright lights and heavy scrutiny. But I don’t know. It got a lot closer this season with Ramirez’s second stellar season, for sure. Close to a dead heat, for me.

NOW, boys girls, ladies and gents, let’s take this party over to a NEW BLOG that’s POSTED NOW.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Lee in S. GA,

Who cares if Cameron is a “strikeout machine”? He doesn’t make outs all that frequently relative to a lot of other guys who will likely be more expensive. How you make outs is a lot less important than how often you make outs.

By Anders

September 7, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Lee in S.Ga I think the Braves have enough descent pitchers. What they need is some decent pitchers! Just having some fun with you on a hot Friday afternoon.

By TennesseePaul

September 7, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Anders: You’re putting words in my mouth. Thanks for your rant though. More bold type and exclamation points would help. Other than that, this fine sentence from 1:29 should have cleared it all up… I’m not saying Francoeur has surpassed Reyes yet in “value”. Just that he’s only had 2 full seasons in the pros and has earned the right to be given more of a chance before tossing him to the curb.

By Overlord

September 7, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

If that is what hunter is looking for, i can assure you he will get even a little more than that, so if JS offers that to him, it wont assure us anything. Plus braves are not anymore an automatic playoff appearance.

By Mz Manures

September 7, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

his so laid back. Yet, he has the intensity

Robert(JITB) Darlin’, when you show “intensity” while you are “laid back” it leads to a messy hand. We do not talk about such things on our bland blog. Note that.

By Shaun

September 7, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Robert (Justice Is The Best),

Let’s see, Hunter is a year older than Andruw. Hunter’s OBP is 18 points lower and his SLG is 28 points lower. And Andruw’s regarded as the better defender. Aside from this awful season from Andruw and this career season from Hunter, I’m not sure where you are getting that Hunter’s the better all-around player.

JS will be foolish to make a serious run at Hunter (and at Andruw, too).

Also there is no way Cameron is going to get $13-15 million a year from any team. It’s not going to happen. Cameron is making $7 million this year at age 34. So signing Hunter will be extremely different from signing Cameron in both years and dollars.

By ppaddy123

September 7, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

One thought on Cameron….he plays in Petco Park 82 games a year. It’s a pitcher’s park and I think it probably has hurt his offense numbers to a degree. I think the guy plays hard everyday and would blend with this Braves team well.

By Salty

September 7, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Tech-Rat Re: 1:07 You’re a smart engineer-type…I’m sure you get it. Just a couple of Tigers sharing a distraction from the diamond, for just a few moments.

Scoots Right on about speed; it was odd…and very satisfying that FSU couldn’t keep up. My how things have changed. Now, for a long-snapper!

By Bill Clyde

September 7, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

To everyone wondering why Harris is still playing most days: well, DOB and many of you have answered the question yourselves—Diaz can’t hit righties worth a $#!+ (really, he’s worse against them than I remember Klesko being against lefties). The only reasonable option at this point would be to use Brayan Pena, but he only recently began learning to play the corner spots in the infield and outfield, and thus would not have been an option back when Willie’s woes worsened. Further, there’s no way Lillibridge, et al. were going to make a bit of difference this season, so I side with the Braves on their decision to leave ‘em down in the minors—why start the option clock running with no good reason to do so? As soon as we got Lillibridge, I was the first to predict here that he would be a September call-up this year and affect the pennant race, and I continue to be glad that no one has ever hired me to work in any capacity in professional baseball—really, these are the best decisions for the long and short term health of the team; we’re just gonna have to continue to eat it cold the rest of the month, then heat up the hot stove so we can hire Cameron, Hunter, and Rowand to all stand in CF at the same time next to Gregor Blanco, Brent Lillibridge and Jeff Francoeur…still won’t help me get over losing ‘Druw, though.

By John

September 12, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

The season was lost on opening day when the Braves showed up at the park with a weak and unchanged rotation and scrubs in the bullpen. This was the result of upper management decisions and there was little that play on the field could do to overcome these. The only thing more irritating and futile is the Iraq war policy of George Bush. It concerns me to see the “what if” talk about Mike Hampton. If he is seriously part of the plan for next year we are lost again. Braves owners and management: GO GET SOME REAL PITCHING—PLEASE!!

By John

September 12, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

P.S. ALSO, DON’T WASTE PITCHING MONEY ON ANDRU JONES.