AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > September > 04 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USSome what-ifs and second-guessing
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Ok, ok, yes it’s time for a new blog. Just tried to scroll down the old one and my computer locked up a couple times. A thousand some-odd posts. Did something happen over the weekend?
Uh-hum.
Yes we’re giving DOB a day to recoup, because I had three lovely ones in God’s country, Carolina Lady, and the most unfortunate part was that I didn’t get over to Boone to celebrate with fans who actually got to be overjoyed this weekend.
I did have brunch in Chapel Hill yesterday morning and saw a kid driving around with ASU flags flying from his car - probably a grad student at UNC — and people were honking at him and cheering with him. (And no, I don’t mean Arizona State.)
Oh, yeah, anyway. Back to the doldrums. It would seem some of the blogging masses are ready to look ahead to the offseason and next year. If so, skip on down. Me? I’m a dweller. And I have a little more dwelling to do.
Entering tonight’s game against the Phillies, the Braves are 7-1/2 games down in the NL East, (They’re 5-1/2 back in the wild card but with four teams ahead of them that probably looks even more bleak, if my mind isn’t playing tricks on me.)
These are the times for some what-ifs and second-guessing, sure. So I’m going to play a little what-could-so-easily-have been. Here’s how easy you make up those 7 ½ games. Think of ALL the games the Braves should have and could have so easily won:
— Tim Hudson Part I: Hudson pitched eight shutout innings against the Marlins on April 25 and took a 3-0 lead into the ninth. He gave up three consecutive singles to load the bases with nobody out and it was too much for Wickman, who couldn’t stop the bleeding. Braves lost 4-3.
— Hudson Part II: Hudson had a 2-0 lead on the Twins through 7-1/3 innings on June 14. Wickman gave up three runs in the bottom of the ninth. Braves lose 3-2.
— What about July 1 in Florida? The Braves had just rallied for four runs to go up 5-4 in the top of the ninth on a clutch hit by Yunel Escobar. Then Wickman surrenders a homer to Miguel Olivo homer in the bottom of the ninth inning and the Marlins go on to win 6-5 in 10 innings.
— Then there was my personal tipping point: Braves vs. the Houston Astros on Aug. 2. The Braves lost 12-11 in 14 innings on the base hit by pitcher Jason Jennings. Remember the pinch hit grand slam off Rafael Soriano by Mike Lamb?
— Or Escobar’s error vs. Philadelphia on Aug. 12 that would have been a double play and became a Ryan Howard three-run homer.
— How about that game John Smoltz pitched against the Nationals on April 12? Pitched eight innings of two-run ball and the Braves got shutout, one-hit by Jason Bergmann for six innings. Can’t somebody get a hit?
— Or what about the one where Smoltz faced Bergmann on May 14 in Washington and lost 2-1? He yanked his pinky finger out of joint making a tag but had pitched beautifully, and still the Braves could score only one run on Bergmann -on two hits in eight innings. That was good for Bergmann’s first major league win in 15 career starts.
Ok, that’s seven right there. Seven the Braves could have easily won. And I wasn’t even trying very hard to research them. And you guys probably have others in mind. Eh?
Not trying to apologize for anybody or make excuses. What’s done, is very much almost done, unless something miraculous happens in the next couple of days. And then it has to keep being miraculous for weeks.
I’m just trying to point out how very easily this September could have been a fun month and October something to consider. Little things add up.
Oh, and do we still think it’s bad luck with me on the clock? Not so sure bout that anymore.
And a couple of random thoughts: sending a shout-out to my colleague Mark Bradley, who gets bonus points in my book for his Music Man reference in his weekend column…. Oh Thththista! (That’s ‘Oh Sister!” for the Music-Man challenged.)
And I see the M-dog finally won a game in Arizona. And at such an important time — it moved the Padres a game up in the West. Never could really figure out why he didn’t pitch well there. Fluky is my answer.
And he hasn’t walked anybody for 49-1/3 innings, stretching over seven starts and 191 batters. Not since July 28. He’s got a ways to go to catch his 72-1/3 inning streak he had with the Braves in 2001. Remember how it ended with an intentional walk? Anyway. Gamer.
Just thought I’d throw that out there. For those feeling nostalgic. Off to the yard.
Services »
Comments
By hk
September 4, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
… here’s the Grinch’s presentation the other night at Turner Field, a good view of Lew’s sketch of Tex, and of the young Tex songsters …
http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/grinch1.jpg
… and here’s one of Grinch, DOB, and a girl who Grinch says brought this all about, and who he likes :))
http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/grinch2.jpg
By Anders
September 4, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
First, just like the Mets!
By Chop Chop
September 4, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
Carroll, your personal tipping point (12-11 loss in the 14th inning on August 2) was against the Astros, not the Rockies. Jason Jennings probably threw you off. He’s been very disappointing since being traded from Colorado to Houston.
By Renegator
September 4, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
Second?
By MEB
September 4, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
Carroll… how about a long, long winning streak!
GO BRAVES!!!
By Anders
September 4, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
Carroll I don’t want to poke holes in your blog but the Mets could have won 3 of the 4 they lost to the Phils just last week! The ironic part is that would have actually helped the Braves. But most on here are so hell bent on the destruction of the Mets that they couldn’t see the forest for the trees.
By ssiscribe
September 4, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
CR, spent part of today doing the same thing, pondering the games that got away. One thing, though: The game Aug. 2 was against Houston (my wife and I were there and left after 11 innings because we had to get our kids to bed).
Jennings, if you’ll remember, did play for the Rox last year. He got the only hit off Hudson in a 1-hitter Huddy threw early last season.
But back to your point: Yeah, several games the Braves really should’ve won. The Braves getting a four-run lead off Cole Hamels in the first inning in Philly, only to see Chuck hand it right back in about 10 minutes comes to mind.
So, too, do the two games in Cincy when the Braves scored seven runs … and lost each time. The three home losses to the Reds after the Braves went into the All-Star break with momentum, and beat up on Pittsburgh after the break. The night in Arizona Escobar stole a base when Valverde bent over to adjust his socks, only to later see Wil Ledezma give up a blast in extra innings.
Of course, any team can look back and see games they gave away. This team didn’t have the luxury of letting too many get away, and they let a bunch get gone.
Off to the yard for the family and I tonight. We’ll be sitting in the upper deck, couple of rows up, third-base side, enjoying the grand ole game as the 2007 season plays out.
Short of a miracle, we’ll be putting our tomahawks away and getting out our Thrashers gear once we come back from Vegas the first weekend in October.
Selah, denizens. CR, get a win tonight, will ya? And, oh yeah, I too was in N.C. this weekend … donated some cash to the fine folks at Harrah’s in Cherokee. Call it a Vegas warm-up. Guess I don’t have to worry about coming home with money for playoff tickets, eh?
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By DAP
September 4, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
thanks, carroll. some more quick examples for you off of the top of my head.
the extra inning loss to the astros when we were up by four and soriano gave up the grandslam to tie, and we later lost.
more recently, the extra-inning game against the marlins. chipper homered to tie it, and then an outburst by frenchy gets him tossed, and our emergency left fielder botches a play, leading to a loss.
also, how about scoring 7 runs in two seperate games against the reds? any pitching at all and we should have won at least one of those.
and to paint with a broader brush, how about andruw jones with his .200 average hitting in the cleanup spot the entire first half? you gotta think a couple of close games in there could have gone the other way had a mere .260 hitter been in the cleanup spot (in other words, ANYBODY other than andruw)
oh well, stuff happens. but it certinly is a tradgedy how things have gone down this year.
By ssiscribe
September 4, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
And here’s something I wrote earlier today:
Where do we go from here? Which is the way that’s clear?
If you’re the Atlanta Braves, you find yourself standing amid the destruction of a lost weekend — and for all intents and purposes, the end of your pursuit of a National League playoff spot. What to do now? What to focus on as the band playing for the contenders in the NL playoff chase marches over the hill and toward October, a place where you’re not heading for the second consecutive season?
The three-game sweep at the hands of the first-place New York Mets plunged the Braves 7.5 games out of first place in the NL East, and a whopping 6.5 games out of the NL wild-card spot. True, Atlanta did make up a game in the wild-card standings with Monday’s 5-1 victory over Philadelphia, but with 5.5 games and four teams separating the Braves from the wild card, there isn’t a lot of confidence in Braves Nation this team is capable of overcoming those hurdles.
That’s because the Braves showed us this weekend that, while there were signs in recent weeks of this team putting it all together, Atlanta remains uncapable of doing what good baseball teams need to do consistently to win consistently. Lack of situational hitting. Lack of simple fundamental execution (like getting down a bunt). Lack of damage control. Lack of Chuck James keeping the ball in the ballpark.
Hence, that’s why this team remains what it’s been since a 7-1 start: maddingly inconsistent.
For the second consecutive turn through the rotation, neither John Smoltz nor Tim Hudson won. The two aces have held the Braves close to the pack while the back three spots in the rotation took turns playing demolition derby. Finally, there is stability in the form of Lance Cormier, who has pitched very well his last four times out, winning two in a row. Buddy Carlyle pitched well in his last start and will seek to do the same again tonight against Philly at Turner Field.
But you can’t blame Smoltz and Hudson for not winning every single time out. That’s simply too much to ask. Spahn and Sain lost every once in a while themselves.
No, the Braves must rest in the bed they’ve spent the past four months making. Several games that should have been wins slipped away, either due to poor starting pitching, poor bullpen work, an inconsistent offense or a combination thereof. So, too, has the management of this team by Bobby Cox come into question, and rightly so. Everybody loves playing for Cox, and he’ll go down as one of the greatest managers in history.
But you have to second-guess his bullpen strategy, his continual insistence to rely on Chris Woodward and Scott Thorman in the clutch and his late decision to split Smoltz and Hudson in the rotation. In the end, Cox is partly to blame for the Braves’ lack of success in 2007.
You can’t lay it all at the skipper’s feet, though. The players are the ones who are paid to perform. Too few of them did so, especially after the Braves started April 16-9. From Woodward and Thorman to Craig Wilson and Bob Wickman, from Kyle Davies and Mark Redman to Anthony Lerew and Andruw Jones, too many players had too many bad stretches, and it kept what could have been a very good team built to win in October from even getting a chance to sneak onto the dance floor.
Granted, there are 24 games left, and some will say shoveling dirt on the 2007 Braves is a premature act. Maybe so. But consider this: wild-card leader Arizona is on pace to win 88 games. The Braves, who have 70 wins in 138 games, must finish 19-5 to win the wild card.
Possible? Maybe.
Likely? Nope.
Potential not fulfilled. The story of the 2007 Braves, who now stare eye-to-eye an offseason full of big questions (try to resign Jones? Trade Edgar Renteria for a reliable veteran starter? Try to lock up Mark Teixeira?).
It’s an offseason that will resonate for seasons to come for this franchise. It’s an offseason destined to begin far sooner than anyone anticipated.
—30—
By gant #5
September 4, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop… Good catch on the Jennings/Astros oversight. There WAS a game at Colorado in late April that would also qualify. 7-5 Braves lead going into the 9th and good ole’ Wicky Wick blew it. Not even Frenchy’s sick catch where he laid out in the right center field gap could save this one. 9-7 Rockies in 11. Game file here: http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/wrap.jsp?ymd=20070429&contentid=1936923&vkey=wrapup2005&fext=.jsp&team=away&cid=atl
Go Braves and Padres!!
By Shaun
September 4, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
If we play this game, don’t we have to list all the times the Braves could have easily lost but ended up in the win column, as they say?
By 22oz
September 4, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
Any game with bases loaded, nobody out. A certain series against the Mets in NY and in ATl comes to mind…or that one against Cincy, or Florida, or St Louis, or Philly…..
Let’s also not forget any time a bunt was required.
By AZBravoFan
September 4, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
I’m sure everyone’s going to chime in with their hard-luck moments but a couple others that stand out for me are that 15 inning loss to the Reds after Soriano gave up that mammoth tater to Dunn to tie the game; losing to Florida in extras after Chipper’s huge bomb to tie the game late; and the worst: coughing up the middle game of the Mets series after Smoltz had been staked to a 3-1 lead. Would have been a sweep. Would have walked out of Shea down only 1 1/2. Would have been a whole different race. Ughhh!
By Shaun
September 4, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
How about these?
First two of the season, extra inning wins against Philly that could have gone either way.
The 7-5, extra-inning win in San Fran in July.
The 10-inning win vs. Colorado in August.
And those are just the close, extra-inning games that could have gone either way. What about the comeback wins or the other close wins?
Got to go both ways if we are going to play the what-if game.
By Zane Smith
September 4, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
I love how the fan poll on AJC has gone from “will the Braves make the plyoffs?” to “Will the Braves finish wiht a winning record?” ugh.
By gant #5
September 4, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
Or how about 15 inning marathon agaisnt Cincy (July 18th) that featured the Adam Dunn two-run bomb off of the once lights out Soriano, that tied the game in the 7th. Remember Francoeur lined into the 10 inning-ending double play (Chipper doubled off third) to a leaping Brandon Phillips, with Ryan Freel playing as a fifth infielder. Remember Chipper was on third after he had doubled Renteria in with a missle off the wall in left. Two feet higher and it’s a 2-run game winning blast for Chip. These are the games where afterwards you say, “I hope this doesn’t come back to bite us in late September and October.” Unfortunately, there were too many of these games this year, and they’re inevitably biting away.
By NASCARfan
September 4, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this
Isn’t every single game that the Dunce in the Dugout started a .200 hitter in the 4-hole a “what-if” game?
As in, “What if the Nose Picker had put Frenchy in the four hole instead?”
Just like every single October, this season’s downfall can be pointed directly at Cox’s brainless head.
By gant #5
September 4, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Shaun… You’re right about this game we play, but championship teams have far fewer games that Carroll mentions than ones the Braves ended up winning.
By NO CHOP ZONE
September 4, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
LEW, this topic is just up your alley. “What If’s” are what you are all about dude. You’ve been playing that game since last November. The only thing missing are the Maybe’s. Soon you’ll have the whole off season to think of a bunch more for 2008. The end is near.
By Shaun
September 4, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
gant #5,
Let’s see. The Angels have lost 23 games by margins of 2 runs or fewer. Cleveland, 30. The Mets, 23. Red Sox, 30. Tigers, 29. Yankees, 30.
All of those teams have a decent shot to be “championship teams.”
By Shaun
September 4, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
gant #5,
In fact, every team in baseball has at least 26 losses by margins of one or two runs.
Every team losses their share of games that could go either way. You just hope it evens out enough for you to have a chance.
By E
September 4, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
Shaun
The games lost in those situatons outweigh the games won.
By Lew
September 4, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this
The hell with what’s already happened. What are they going to do the rest of the way? Y’all HAVE heard of spilt milk, haven’t you? Stop crying (you heard how much room for that there is in baseball) and let’s see what can be salvaged the rest of the way. The Mets STIOLL have not won a damn thing. Neither have the Phillies. It’s all improbable, but stranger things have happened. There’s still 20 something games left, even if all that is played for is pride.
By justin
September 4, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
1-6 against the Reds is unacceptable. Getting swept by the Mets is rock-bottom. It is so difficult to watch a team that has been fantastic for so long play such mediocre baseball. They are better than this, and I think we (Braves fans) all know this.
There is still hope, and until those magic numbers say otherwise, I plan to watch and keep a good thought.
By Shaun
September 4, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Actually, that’s what Pythagorean record is all about, basically—telling us what a team would have done had they won (and lost) all the games they should have.
Braves would be 74-64 and second in the wild card race if everyone would have won and lost as many games as they should have.
By gant #5
September 4, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Shaun… I’m not talking about just close losses, I’m talking about losses where the Braves had and blew the lead late - Games that championship teams don’t choke and lose. How many games did those teams lose after say, the 7th or eighth inning? Compare that to how mahy they won late. I haven’t done the math myself, but I’d bet that there were a lot fewer of the former.
By Greg
September 4, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
Between Andruw and that fat tub Wickman, we were doomed from the start. But let’s face it, this team doesn’t deserve to be in the playoffs. That’s bad for Smoltz. He only has one or two years left, but this team is not worthy of the postseason. Add a starter, lose AJ, give Soriano time to settle into his role, teach James a third pitch, and come back next year. The scary thing is that I wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets added Santana. That would be a nightmare. As much as our guys love to strike out, they might give Santana the first 27-K perfect game.
By ncscoots
September 4, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Games that could have gone either way? Try 162 of them…they all start out even, remember?
This is more of the same “this is THE most critical month/roadtrip/series/game/inning/pitch of the season” stuff. It’s easy to cherry-pick on either side of the shoulda-won or shoulda-lost side. And in all instances, either way, I reply: “that’s baseball.”
And, Carroll, my intent is not demean your choice of subject matter; I just cringe at a given opportunity, certain to be taken many bloggers, to once more pick at the scabs.
By Shaun
September 4, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
E,
Four is not a huge difference.
By DAP
September 4, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
shaun youve just contradicted yourself. im confused.
The Angels have lost 23 games by margins of 2 runs or fewer
and then
every team in baseball has at least 26 losses by margins of one or two runs.
besides, i dont really get your point. it remains that a few games that were winnable werent won, so here we are today. we all agree there were games that were losable that we won anyways, but that not what were talking about.
but hey, every party has a pooper. i guess youre today’s pity party pooper! :-) try to that that 5 times fast!
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
hk Thanks for the photos. And I expected Grinch to be a lot uglier than that. :>)
NCZ Did your mother have any children that lived?
Anders Yes, unfortunately your mother did.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
Yes DAP every party has its’ pooper but Shaun is the one you sit on. And unfortunately, you can’t “hush” him, much less “flush” him.
By Shaun
September 4, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this
DAP,
Should have said at least 23 losses not 26.
Anyway, my point is if you play the what-if game, you have to play it both ways. Let’s go back and look at the close wins and the comeback wins.
The Braves don’t have a great record in games decided by 2 or fewer runs. But there are more teams under .500 in that situation than over. True, it hasn’t quite evened out for the Braves but it almost has.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
September 4, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
Excellent post, Carroll. The points you made and the games you cited are the very reason I laugh anytime somebody says that baseball’s 162 game schedule is too long. It also goes to show you that a game in April is just as important as a game in September.
Any team can get hot for 50 games or so. Hell, if you took the first 50 or so games of this season the Braves and Brewers would have been locks for the postseason. Now, I doubt either will make it. Those games that were blown in April, May, and June have come back to bite the Braves square in their a**!
It also goes to show you just how important a reliable closer is. It does seem that Wickman was more unreliable than most of us felt he was. Imagine where the Red Sox would be without Papplebon or the Angels without K-Rod or even the Yanks without Rivera. The Sox would be fighting for their lives in the division possibly. The Yanks would have long ago made vacation plans for early October. The Angels would be neck and neck with the Mariners right now. What about the Mets? They wouldn’t be in first place right now. That is for sure.
Some have said it on here but I think it has to be brought up. The injury to Mike Gonzales may very well wind up being the death blow to this team. If he is healthy, Wickman doesn’t get the chance to blow the vast majority of those saves and possibly would have save the overuse of Soriano. I said possibly.
By Anders
September 4, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
Greg I happen to agree with you about the Mets making a play for Santana. While the Braves spent most of their prospcts on Tex and Dotel the Mets sat tight. Next year they can take their prospects and the $21 mil we save on Glavine and Shaun Green and make a deal with the Twins and sign Santana long term. Doesn’t seem that long ago that folks on this blog were lauding JS for one upping Minaya at the trade deadline. Turns out all we needed was Castillo and Minaya got him for a song. All the other pieces were on the DL waiting to come back - Chavez, Martinez, Alou, Loduca and we still have Duaner Sanchez due back for next season. The Mets used 3 different right fielders alone against the Braves over the weekend. Now that everyone’s back from the DL they have the deepest bench in baseball again.
By ncscoots
September 4, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
Is it the blog’s opinion that Andruw will be, now and forever, a .220 hitter the rest of his career? Certainly seems that way, since most are ready to ride him out of town on a rail. But a comparably bad followup season would be as unexpected as his current troubles were for this year.
I certainly doubt he would sign for what would be a reasonable figure due a slugger coming off his type of season, hence, he’s unlikely to be back, IMO. But to ignore that he’s more likely to rebound than plummet in 2008 isn’t clear thinking.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this
ncscoots It must have been expensive to install nothing but rose-colored windows in your house. Com’on man, you can rip me a new one in a “word game”, but everybody can’t be as upbeat as you apparently are. If we were, we would all be playing harps and the blog would be headed by someone with a St. in front of their name. No offense intended. Paladin
By knowitall
September 4, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this
Shaun I don’t think is just that they were close losses. Some of these were blind siding losses. I mean we blew 3 or 4 run leads in the bottom of the ninth.
Yes the game where Hudson pitched 2 hit, shutout baseball for eight innings may stastically count as just another loss but in reality that had to be devistating. That game seemed firmly in control and the thought of losing was never there. Then out of no where, in a matter of a few minutes, the game was gone.
By Carolina Gent
September 4, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
Carroll, I believe that what all of these close losses (and others to be sure) point out is something you noted several weeks back, that this team lacked a killer instinct. That shows up again with the lack of production in key situations. Need to get a bunt down? Can’t do it. Need to get a hit in a key situation. Uh-uh, not there. Need that third out in an inning? Nope, give up a HR instead. One of the things in ‘95 that was so much fun about watching that team, and one of the things that we saw back in April with this team, was the never-say-die attitude, the feeling that no deficit was too great to overcome. Certainly, all teams have injuries that they have to deal with. But I agree with Robert (JIB) that the Gonzalez loss hurt. More than I ever thought it would. But it seems like the damning blow for the stretch run was Renteria. He seemed to have this knack for getting the key hit in the key situation. And even though Escobar has put up good numbers, you can’t replace someone who has that knack. That’s what winning teams have… that killer instinct throughout the roster. Different players who can step up and produce when needed. That’s what we’ve been missing for the last two regular seasons and for oh-those-many postseasons prior.
By Supes
September 4, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
Anders
why of course man, Omar is the best right? The NY METS are the best? Soon they will rule the universe, soon they will land Santana, maybe even get Oswalt and Jake Peavy as well! The Mets will be the greatest, they have the deepest outfield and bench in the bigs! Infact, the Mets will be so great b/c Minaya is the best GM, that the rest of the NL will concede next year and just have the Mets be crowned champs!
OK, on a serious note…there is absolutely zero certainty that the Mets will land Santana! Have you not heard of yeah…the NY YANKEES! They have more money and have the 26WS titles, they are in the playoffs every year, where do you think Johan will want to go? To the Yankees or the Mets? Maybe he goes to the Sox? Either way, why count your chickens before your eggs are even hatched man…Oh I know why, the NY METS are the greatest! Amazing, 2 years of success has changed your mind hasn’t it? I guess you forgot the previous 14!
By Anders
September 4, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
Bubba Redux Is that really you?
By wiki
September 4, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
By NO CHOP ZONE September 4, 2007 4:05 PM LEW, this topic is just up your alley. “What If’s” are what you are all about dude. You’ve been playing that game since last November. The only thing missing are the Maybe’s. Soon you’ll have the whole off season to think of a bunch more for 2008. The end is near.
Congrats! You guys get to play a few more games! One question: Whose curveball is going to buckle Beltran’s knees this year?
By ncscoots
September 4, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
Paladin, even I wouldn’t want to live in a world (or participate on a blog, for that matter) where everyone were like me, LOL. Where would be the fun in that?
Guilty as charged on “relentlessly upbeat”, though…every meal a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every day a holiday. That’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it.
By AZBravoFan
September 4, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
Robert (JIB), the Gonzalez loss as well as the other pitching injuries definitely hurt. But I think you can point to a few offensive issues as well. Some obvious, some more subtle. 1) Gross overestimation of Thorman’s contribution at 1st base. Granted we corrected that by getting Tex. You could say it was too late, but if the pitching had come around it wouldn’t have been. 2) Andruw’s season-long slump. It’s just scary to think of all the RBI opportunities that went to die in Andruw’s .200 average. Totally changes the complexion of the lineup if he has a year more like 2005. Chipper, McCann, Frenchy, all have pretty good numbers. But they would have been even better. 3) Renteria’s injury. No one’s really talked about this since Escobar as done a great job holding down the fort. But I think his presence really helps the lineup as well. I guarantee you none of those wasted bases-loaded no out scenarios would have happened if Renteria had an at-bat in any of them. 4) The bench. This isn’t even worth commenting on, but in a way you could say it all comes back to the pitching. If we didn’t always have to carry 13 pitchers (I’ve never seen that before) perhaps there would have been room for some better hitters on the bench, and not this need to carry players who play multiple positions but none of them well, and can’t hit either.
By rocky stone
September 4, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
it’s been a tough year for bobby cox.
i’m not saying bobby is confused easily but he went to the siding doctor to have his prostate checked.
and whatever happened to that handsome journalist jimmy smith?
By h_charles
September 4, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Knowtall —
YOu are 100% correct. The difference between a playoff team and a loser is 10 games a year.
When you dominate a team for 8 innings only to have it all unravel in the ninth, it is DEVASTATING.
Absolutely have to win those games. Baseball is too evenly matched a sport let those slip away. Even for the best of teams, there will be 50 games a year you just have no shot at winning, plain and simple. What separates the good teams is their ability to find away to win games up for grabs and not lose games that should be in the bag.
This Braves team just doesn’t have that intangible ingredient that helps win those games. Not sure you can describe excactly what “it” is, but the Braves teams of the 90s had “it.”
This team doesn’t.
By Kentavo
September 4, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
How about the games where Cox didn’t give the team a chance to win by starting Woodward? Or when he rested Renteria and Chipper in the same game, and Chipper and Andruw in the same game? Or when he kept Andruw in the 4-hole with a Mendoza-like B.A.? Or when he trotter Yates out there game after game. Or when he brought Soriano into blowouts, thus wearing him out too, uneccessarily. And what about the team not being able to bunt? Who’s fault is that?
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this
Very good assessment, Carolina Gent. And that is why the Braves are in such a dire situation. Every, almost, game must be won. Because each loss breaks down that never-say-die mantra and leaves them to start all over. There are just not enough games to do that.
By Stuart
September 4, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
The loss of EDGAR has been the death knell of this team. He is the MVP this year. However, I still think 86, at most 88 wins is going to get the WC. That means the bravos have to go 16-8 to get to 86 and 18-6 down the stretch.
The braves have an extra day off vs. the rest of the schedule, they should get Edgar back, and they may be the team most helped by the callups because it gives them more help on the bench and a couple of extra arms in the pen. (What about Acosta, what a job he is doing!!!!)Arizona is coming back to earth, they are the WC leader. The west is going to eat each other, much like the SEC does in football.
The schedule breaks pretty well for the bravos too with several games vs. the nats, 3 with a terrible Astros team, 4 at home vs. the Brewers, at least 3 at home vs. Fla (I think) and at least 5 against the Phils. The Phils games are huge as they look to be the ones to track down in the WC race if my NL West theory holds. No need to worry about the division, cause we will get our shot vs. the mets in the playoffs we hope.
It is a long shot, but it is not over. Go Bravos.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
September 4, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
O’Brien , there is little doubt left as to the Braves priority this off-season. Pitching , pitching , pitching and more pitching. John Schuerholz needs tunnel vision in this regard. whether it should involve the draft or a trade , free agency or any other transaction , pitching is the number one need.
By Booby Cox
September 4, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
You can count the would have/should have games this year and last, but the reality is the Braves never synched up their offense and pitching in either season. They had periods where the offense was killing the ball but pitching always gave up one more run. Then there were times that the pitching worked but the offense couldn’t get a key hit. The Braves have reached a level of mediocrity and Cox has proven that he can only win when coaching exceptionally talented teams. To that point, Cox messed up many talented teams’ chances(see his pathetic record in the postseason)in the playoffs but somehow got lucky in 1995. It takes Booby months to spot trends and make changes where better managers respond much quicker. Booby-ball means seeing the likes of soft throwing Charlie Liebrandt coming in to close the 6th game of the 1991 WS, and seeing a .200 hitter(Andruw) occupy the 4 hole for 3 months(BTW- I think he would still be there if Tex were not acquired), and having countless sub .235 players in the game for “matchup” reasons while .300 hitters sit on the bench. Booby is bad news for the fans because he cost us at least 1-3 additional titles. Until he’s gone, the Braves will never consistently put the best team on the field. At least we don’t have to witness any of his postseason guffaws this year. Booby was marginal when he was young so you know he will get even more innefective as he ages. Time for the old guy to step aside!
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
Hats off to you then, Scoots, you are a good man.
Now, to attempt to reply to your question about Andruw. I offer this. If Andruw continues to insist—against all advice—that he is a “pull” hitter and continues to attempt to pull even low and outside sliders, how will he improve either here or there?
By Anders
September 4, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
Supes And what do you think the Yanks have to give the Twins to get Santana? They’re not going to trade a prized young pitcher who they have control over for 6 years for a guy who’s gonna get $20mil per year from day one. They don’t have much else in the way of prospects to give. If Santana stays with the Twins for the whole season and goes free then I agree with you. Do you really think the Twins let him walk for nothing? Plus, the Twins aren’t going to want to face him with the Yanks every year and in the playoffs. Besides the Yanks have their eyes squarely on Tex. The Mets almost had Oswalt last year in a three way (Paladin will use that comment against me). But The orioles got spooked and pulled out (Paladin again). I actually view Maine as Oswalt light. Similar style but doesn’t have the track record - yet. Thanks for the kind words on Minaya and the Mets.
By Scott
September 4, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
Our pitching let us down this year. That’s all that needs to be said. Wait till next year.
I guess it’s time to break out my Thrashers gear and get ready for hockey season. I don’t know how good the Thrashers are going to be this year after winning the division last season. They are going to be a lot younger, which in my opinion is a good thing.
By LT (double AA blogger)
September 4, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this
Thanks Carrol, I had finally reached the last stage of grief and accepted no playoffs. Then, here you go and make me relive the pain. Oh the pain! Now I’m back at stage 2, anger.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this
Coach As usual, you are out-of-the-loop, over-the-top and out-in-left-field. “O’Brien” isn’t here today. He is taking some time off from nut-cases like you.
By Lew
September 4, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
The earth may stop turning on it’s axis with this, but Coach’s 5:11 post is absolutely right on 100% true. It’s the pitching and nothing else. Forget a center fielder from outside the organization. It’s the pitching that will make the difference.
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
Maine is no Oswalt, so please take that back. However, Maine is an above average pitcher. Braves need a dynamite leadoff hitter to play CF next year and a starting pitcher (hopefully 2). And I mean #3 pitchers at worst.
By Steven
September 4, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this
Carroll, There are about 20 other what-ifs and most of them involve some questionable strategic or tactical decision by Bobby Cox.
Game 2 comes to mind of the recent series against the Mets at Shea Stadium where Cox didn’t send Diaz up to pinch hit for Andruw Jones in the top of the 9th with the bases loaded and 1 out. That was a critical moment and it was beyond obvious that Diaz was the far better bet in such situation. But Cox played it as if it was more important to stroke Andruw’s ego than it was to win the most critical game of the year to that point. Never mind what it must do to Andruw’s ego to allow him to continually fail in situations where the game is on the line.
Now, it doesn’t mean that the Braves would have won all of these 20 other what-if games had Cox not consistently displayed such mind-boggling dumb judgment, nor does it mean the Braves would have even won a majority of these games. But it’s safe to say, imo, that Cox’s dumb moves have cost the Braves as many as 10 net wins this year. And 10 net wins is the difference between being 3 games over .500 as opposed to being 23 games over .500.
I don’t think I’m engaging in hyperbole when I say that I think Cox’s dumb strategic and tactical decision making this year has been of historic proportions. I can’t imagine the ownership of any other team with a roster worthy of contention allowing its field manager to so so consistently engage in one low IQ choice after another, without there being some kind of checks and balances put in place to ensure that smarter decisions were being made.
Unfortunately, the upper management of the Braves had no checks and balances in place to prevent Cox from doing one dumb thing after another, and often the same dumb thing over and over again.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this
saying that it is “Pitching”is over stating the obvious. Of course, it is the pitching. But, how do you fix it? I’ve heard enough “what ifs” and “How abouts”. Tell us where, when and how we can go sign these “saviors”. I’m sure JS would like to know, as well.
Remember Monroe’s statement to the B. Pirates? “Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute”. I say the relativity of that now is: Not one penny for Glavine, but millions to shore up our defense. That could include other pitchers, if you find them.
By Lew
September 4, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this
Tyler-All posters here realize my opinion of the Mets. I haven’t changed my mind one bit, believe me. However, that being said-Maine is not Roy Oswalt-YET. I don’t think much of the Mets, but I’d take that kid for the Braves in a heartbeat. He’s good now and will only get better. I think you’ll find he’s the real deal if he can remain healthy.
By NO CHOP ZONE
September 4, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this
Wiki, I can’t know what’s gonna happen in the playoffs but I do know this. The braves won’t be in it.. You can’t know what joy it is to say that. ahhhhhhhhh.
By jbutler
September 4, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this
I know there will be plenty of armchair quarterbacking as to exactly why the season went south, or when it happened…But its with a twinge of sadness/regret that this team just didn’t gel and make it happen.
I feel badly for Smoltz…he’s the one who doesn’t have many calendars to keep turning- this may have been his last real chance.
I’ll keep peering to see how the season finishes, but I’m turning my focus to football here in Broncoland.
By NO CHOP ZONE
September 4, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this
LEW, I will NEVER ride you again. That last post finally showed some class on your part. I take back all I’ve ever said about you. I promise, it was never personal.
By DAP
September 4, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this
i started to think today about what it would be like if our center fielder has batted .250 all season. our offense has been really good despite andruw’s low batting average. my thoughts have been that this offseason, we drop andruw, wickman, and renterias contracts (equaling about $25mil) so that we can afford a good center fielder AND a pitcher.
but if we could just find a way to get a good defensive centerfielder who can just hit above .250, we can keep renteria, keep our potent offense, and spend andruw and wickman’s money on a pitcher (or two)
escobar and johnson can platoon one more year, and we will have escobar to back up SS and 3B.
point is, you dont have to do much to make up for andruw leaving. keep renteria one more year, and our offense has virually no drop-off.
By Greg Maddux
September 4, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s not get crazy now Anders. Oswalt has finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting in each of his 5 full seasons in the majors. It would have been a 6th season as well if he had not been hurt one year. He has won an NLCS MVP. John Maine can not be mentioned in the same breath as Oswalt. Are we even sure Maine will even get a start in the postseason ahead of Perez, Glavine, Duque, and Pedro? Barely a top 5 guy in their rotation and you are mentioning him in the same breath as someone who is annually in the top 5 pitchers in the National League.
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this
Maybe it’s just the doofy picture Maine has as a picture on mets.com, but I just don’t see him as being an Oswalt type pitcher. I see him being a #2 for a long time, although he changed my opinion a little bit when he bounced back against us and threw a 4 hitter I believe?
By Todd A
September 4, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
I would like to see Schuerholz hire Phil Garner as a bench coach this off-season, that is, if he doesn’t get another managerial job. We need someone in the dugout with some influence, and veto power when Cox gets ready to do something dumb again, like try and squeeze on the first pitch, with a pitcher at the plate, and a very slow catcher running at 3rd.After that play, the broadcast crew said Charlie Manuel read Bobby’s mail. Hell, who hasn’t?
By knowitall
September 4, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
Steven,
I don’t even think you can say what if with Bobby. The players haven’t performed, pure and simple. The only problem I have with Bobby this year is that he left Andrew at cleanup too long. The bottom line is that those are the bench players he was given and they have to play sometimes. I don’t know why Woodward is still on the team but he is, thus he has to play.
I mean you can’t blame the manager when you repeatedly have the bases loaded with no outs and don’t score. That’s on the players. He tried a squeeze the other day and that didn’t work. They have been loaded with no outs and 3-4-5 hitters coming up. Still nothing. I think more blame lies on the players than the manager.
By Carroll Rogers
September 4, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this
man, that 14-inning game lasted so long i thought it was the rockies (the next game) not the astros….ha. yeah don’t know where my head was on that one. i’ll get that changed.
edgar is back taking batting practice and he’s eligible to come off friday. he said a lot of “we’ll see” today so i’m thinking friday is a question mark at best. but he did say he feels much stronger and he was doing everything he wanted to in batting practice today - hitting, taking groundballs, etc.
tex got NL player of the month after hitting .315 with 10 home runs, 32 RBIs and scoring 20 runs in 28 games in August.
By Bay Area Steve
September 4, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this
Anyone know how I can look at the previous blog?
By bruce
September 4, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
I’m discouraged but don’t want to be… still planning trips to nine of the remaining games, all on the road, have tix for games at New York and DC next week and then Philly. Hoping for sweep of Philly now and a great series (sweep) next against the Nats to put some real drama and excitment into the Mets series next week and Nats next week. Not so likely, but I can watch and hope. Thanks, Bruce
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this
Found out that the Royals are planning on shoppoing David DeJesus since they are planning on playing Gathwright next year. Thoughts on him? Career .285 hitter, down year at .269 but good overall if we can’t get someone elsewhere, right?
By Colin
September 4, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this
Now i can watch with no expectations and just as a fan because there so far out unless they win the next 20 or so games in a row…Well i guess 5.5 is not a lot but the DBACKS are playing well just playing division rival San Diego so hopefully San Diego sweeps them and we sweep the Phillies then we would be 3.5 out and with a slight chance.
By Efrim
September 4, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
Future CF for Braves:
BaseballAmerica
Don’t underestimate the power of Schafer, who had one of the best seasons in the minors and improved his stock in the Braves’ system to become a shoe-in Top 10 pick in the 2008 Prospect Handbook. Schafer, who turned 21 today, had a very Grady Sizemore-like year in the Carolina League, batting .294/.354/.477 with 10 homers, 43 RBIs, 70 runs scored and 19 steals. Schafer wound up leading the minors in hits (176), and ranked among the overall leaders in doubles, extra-base hits and total bases.
By DonCoburleone
September 4, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this
Nice article Carroll, but I bet if you give me enough time I could find 7 games we won that we very easily could have lost… It goes both ways. Bottom line, this team is not good enough this year to get to the playoffs in an AWFUL National League. And the worst part is we showed ZERO heart in the series against the Mets. That series can be summed up in 1 word: GUTLESS.
By DonCoburleone
September 4, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this
Just face facts Colin, its over…
Tyler, DeJesus would be a nice stop-gap center fielder if we could get him… And the Dayton Moore-John Scheurholz pipeline has already produced alot of trade activity… That could happen, or maybe the organization thinks Gregor Blanco is ready? I actually am hoping we DONT get Mike Cameron now, the last thing this team needs is another strikeout machine…
By Efrim
September 4, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
Future ace of the staff:
BaseballAmerica
Rohrbough, a draft and follow pick in 2006, burst onto the scene in 2007 with Rookie-level Danville where he completely shut down Appalachian League hitters. In 33 innings he went 3-2, 1.08 with 58 strikeouts. He was promoted to low Class A Rome on August 5 and went 2-0, 1.29 in 28 innings with 38 strikeouts to give him a 5-2, 1.17 line for the season.
By DAP
September 4, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
charlie manuel has a really big head. did you guys see the size of that guy’s noggin?
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
I dont care how big or how small, just beat those philthies. I can honestly say this is the 1st time, and last, I will ever root for the braves. (DID I JUST TYPE THAT) If you guys can be the same amount of games back as the philthies between now and next weeks series at Shea, then no matter what happens the rest of the season, Caroll’s blog will become more than a story, but the awful truth for braves fans. Knock a few philthies down Buddy, show’em you mean businsess for a change.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this
MetroMan Go eat your dogchow.
By DAP
September 4, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this
buddy is looking really bad tonight. gonna be a long night.
By Colin
September 4, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this
Its not over numerically so its not over..but if u believe so then i guess it is…
By TampaBrave
September 4, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this
Carroll
Hate to see everyone railing on Michigan as if the team they lost to was really bad. Quite the contrary, ASU is 2 time defending 1-AA champion and they dominated that division for the last couple of years. Kicking Michigan out of top 25 is the biggest overreaction I’ve seen in some time by the coaches. How about someone with some stones talk about how good ASU is?
On the Braves, those games you spoke of were obvious ones. There were so many games we lost because we cannot manufacture a run. Half the guys can’t bunt, nor do they think they should have to. After all, we are the 2nd coming of murderer’s row, right? When the opposing pitcher is having success, we have to find ways to break his rhythm. We need some versatile players who can do what it takes to win. We have degenerated into a beer league team built on the long ball. Agreed the pitching played a heavy role and that is obvious. What isn’t obvious is the inability to score a manufactured run. I know, Carroll, chicks dig the long ball, but a bunt here, a steal there, I think we are in this thing.
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
Dont be fooled by those center field free agents. Rowand is probably the best due to the fact he has played hard for the W. Sox and philthies. In the race or out of the race he is a gamer. Now Cameron is suspect. He will come through but let you down more times than not in the clutch. Saw him in a METS uniform and liked the person but no so much his game. So dont let these center fielders who is having free agent years fool you over the winter, they are typical athletes cashing in on another teams need!!!
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
Paladin: There is a recall on fake men. Eliminate yourself asap before they find you!!!!
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this
MetroMan After reflection, go eat your puppy chow.
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this
Willie Harris would have warning track power…if he played all of his games in the little league world series.
The first two batters of the game (Rollins and Utley) missed home runs by about 1/16 of an inch on their bats. Very fat pitches. Howard did not miss on a fat changeup.
If Buddy isn’t getting the low strike, Buddy isn’t getting anybody out.
Nice job Braves of coming right back in the bottom of the first, taking back the momentum, by going 1-2-3 on about 7 pitches.
By Bubba
September 4, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this
Yo , palidin , hey buddy. coach may be an A-hole , but he is totally correct. If Glavine is a free agent , the Braves should be throwing out the red carpet.
By Braves20
September 4, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this
Old Buddy’s putting them up on a tee for Fightin’ Phils. God, our pitching sucks!
By fastasballs
September 4, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this
Better get that pen working now or this one is over. I’m glad Cox is fielding the best line up again. If Willie has to play bat him eigth & Escobar lead off. Willie’s upper cut swing is much more suited for a sac fly.
By TennesseePaul
September 4, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
Crap. 4 outs and the game is already out of reach. I could stand having a terrible centerfielder with absolutely no pop and making outs all the time next season, in short I could deal with Harris in CF, if that resulted in having just 1 more top tier bonafide starting pitcher on this team. Back in the day the team was built on defense and pitching and we won. Nowadays it’s built on power and strike outs and we don’t win. I know what Payne says, a strike is a great thing, a thing to be admired and an asset to the team, but I disagree. I would much rather have a guy that doesn’t strike out much. A team can only handle so many K machines before it compiles average to below results.
Anywho, I’m out. Gotta get to the Angeles game.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this
MetroMan Fake men? You should know.
By brent a.
September 4, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this
Carroll, or anyone else:
Did anyone hear what time Dale Murphy is going to be at the CNN center tomorrow?
Thanks,
brent a.
By JJMB
September 4, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this
Listening to Dale Murphy makes me want to be a Barry Bonds fan. Moral lessons from a devot Mormon. I’ll pass, thank you.
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this
From Buddy Carlyle to JoJo Reyes. Which one is the frying pan and which one is the fire?
By TNRON
September 4, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this
Buddy Carlyle is a stiff.We would be better off starting Reyes.The hell of it is Bobby Cox probably already has Buddy penciled in as his # 3 or 4 starter next year.That Braves fans is why we are SCREWED.(I know reyes isnt a lot better,but at least he is young).
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this
Paladin: No problem going back and forth now. The race is almost over so nothing left but for you to attack. However since the race is just about over, I can entertain you with insults wihtout the profanity. So bring what you got, I’m just upset they broke up the dog fighting ring before Vick got to let you lose to that French Poodle!!! Now stop sitting on your face while you type!!!
By Jay
September 4, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this
Glavine has a player option worth 13 million for 2008.
By Ken Stallings
September 4, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this
Watch the Braves for the joy of watching professional baseball played on a green field under the autumn blue skies.
Do not watch the Braves with expectations of playoff baseball in October. It won’t happen.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this
Stinky. Aren’t you tired of “acquiring” other people’s names? What ever. You are a slimey little snake with no creditably. Live with it!
By mr baseball
September 4, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this
More Cox brilliance:
He starts Carlyle, who struggles against lefty hitters, and the predictable happens. But when Reyes is your next choice, it’s almost understandable.
He starts Harris, who is something like 0-for-20 and bats him leadoff. Beyond stupid.
Instead of having Ring ready to get out of the 2nd inning, he puts Reyes in, who has little relief experience. Fortunately, after walking Howard and getting behind Rowand, he comes back. Bad move, but it worked out.
Night after night, Chance the Manager makes moves that make sense only to him. He’s not the only reason the Braves are in this predicament, but he’s one of the main ones, along with our genius GM who left Cox with little option other than to start a pitcher who has no business starting a game against the Phillies in September.
Hey, the Braves are still above .500. Something to celebrate.
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this
MetroMan, you have no place here. We are not insulting people not part of your baseball team. Very mature.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this
Metroman Profanity? I haven’t heard any. But, since you suggest it. I’ll be glad to sit on your face.
By bruce
September 4, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this
Brent: I heard 12-1 Bruce
By Carroll Rogers
September 4, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this
interesting points tampabrave. chicks dig bunts too. chicks take them for granted, actually, and so when they don’t happen, it’s glaring.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this
MetroMan You are like Anders. You think we are somehow interested in your blathering about the Muts. We don’t give a sh!T about the Muts. And if you want someone to agree with you, go to the Muts blog and leave us alone!
Is that too simple for even your mentality?
By DonCoburleone
September 4, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
This game is only going to get worse guys…. Hey, lets just focus on what I said before the Mets series - get to 85 wins so at least you can say they improved by a full 6 games from last year; then next year improve by another 6 and BAM, 91 wins and a playoff birth in 2008.
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
Tyler: I usually turn the other cheek, but Paldin doesnt want to talk baseball. Are you defending him or berating me???
Paldin: Sitting on my face will only make it a face to face chat!!!! When you realize that was an insult, the 2008 season should be here!!!!
By bfan54
September 4, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
I love this team. Mistakes were made to be sure, but don’t anyone tell me that A SINGLE ONE of these professional players, (Bob Wickman, damn him, excepted)ever went out with less than the required committment to this organization. A strikeout her, an error there, some misplaced confidence by BC in some of the pitchers/pinch hitters, are not why they lost. They fundamentally lacked the skills. There is next year, lets look forward to that. (Hate to say this for the ‘still believers’, but the statistical probabilities of ANY team with a 68-66 record winning anywhere near 19 of the final 24 games is astronomical.)
Requiem in pacem. 2007 Bravos, with my kudos for all you gave this season!
By Efrim
September 4, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this
The Buddy Carlyle project is over folks. Over.
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this
Paladin: Back to baseball I see. Another thing, why are you attacking so many people??? Arent the braves playing or do you blog so you wont be so lonely????
By MEB
September 4, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
brent a.… Looks like 12-1 pm. You can read about it here.
I wish I could make it to get Murph’s autograph.
GO BRAVES!!!
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
Is that Willie Harris up at bat, or is it Russell Branyan? Wait, maybe Phil Plantier? Got it…Ryan Klesko.
Man, that guy has one wicked uppercut.
Too bad we don’t have anybody on the braves, like a manager or hitting coach, who might be able to work with Willie a bit on hitting line drives…that way he might be able to get on base and get caught stealing.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
MetroMan Go away, please. And quit trying to justify your existence, on this blog. It ain’t working.
By tyyosh
September 4, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
Here is what I would really like to know. Do you have a source? OPS or some other batting-effectiveness stat in late-and-close situations, by inning, especially innings 10+, by month or week. That would either confirm or deny what I think my eyes see, which is that the later and closer, the worse they did, and it got worse and worse over time.
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
MetroMan: Neither. If you’re not even going to talk baseball on a BRAVES blog, then don’t post. We have been nice enough to you being a mets fan, and you should at least accept that and only post if you have something that deals with baseball, period. It is a privelage to post here, not just for you, but for us, and cheap talk is just annoying to read.
By Neil Sedaka
September 4, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
Oh! Carroll,
I am but a fool,
I still love the Braves
Tho’ they treat me so cruel,
They hurt me and they make me cry
But if I stop blogging I will surely die.
Oh! Carroll, please answer my post
you are the scribe that I love the most.
don’t ever leave us,
Say you’ll tell it true
I will always want you for my journ’list
No matter what you do
Oh! Carroll,
I love to read you.
Oh, Carroll…
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this
Another thing, why are you attacking so many people???
Metroboy The only poeple I have “atacked” have been the other “stinky”, beside yourself, and I haven’t done it because I am lonely I have done it because I enjoyed it. Want more?
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this
Paladin: Either you are new or stupid. If you have blogged here long enough you know that my teeth have been cut and I’m a mainstay unless I decide to stop gracing this blog. So give up the “please go away”, METS fans and non METS fans have heard this over and over and it actually makes no difference. Use you energy to support your squad and not tear somebody else down. But either way, I’m game for your weakness!!!!
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
Tyler: Not moved by your speech at all. It doesnt matter what I talk about, I’m a METS fan on a braves blog and you guys inslut each other more than anything else. And baseball is not only discussed here as you guys have the blogg rule book that states this (wish I new that code and section). So relax, Its the braves frustraions taken over, not me being an a-hole. That was 2 years ago. I’m reformed but still dont take trash from people hiding behind computer screens!!!!
By beachcomber
September 4, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
Mr. Sedaka - Coincidentally I was digitizing some of your songs with my Ion turntable tonight - including the little ditty you posted which you wrote for Carole King.
Looking forward to seeing you in concert here in Florida in January.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
MetroStupid I am not “new”. I just wish you “knew”. Keep it up. I got lots of energy.
By fastasballs
September 4, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this
They need to start swinging earlier in the count. Everybody gets down 0-1 ,0-2 before they start swinging & they still manage to get good cuts at the ball. Lohse been in the zone enough to know you are getting a decent pitch especially on the 1st pitch. It’s funny the times the Brave’s hitters decide to be patient is when the opposing pitcher is throwing nothing but stikes.
Diaz would wear this guy out if he was playing.
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this
Glad to see we’re continuing the pattern of holding the opposition down after we score.
By Braves20
September 4, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this
Come on guys - this sounds like sixth grade - maybe fifth. Talk some baseball or perhaps go take a nap.
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
MetroMan: Whatever. Just don’t accuse Paladin of attacking you when you are blatantly attacking him as well. And don’t give me the “he started it” b******.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
MetroMut You may have been here a “long” time, but you have been tolerated, not welcomed. You are not a “made man” on this blog. You are, at best, a maid man. Now, don’t give me any of your sh!t. I’m not buying it, and I don’t think anyone else is, either.
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
Paladin: I’m enjoying the METS and braves game, how bout you? Was that baseball enough for you Tyler or should I add bbq and music so I can be accpeted by you???? (Sarcasm)
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
OK guys, I will quit it. But, because of you, not him.
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this
METS scored 4 in the 7th (so far) to go back up 7-5 on the Reds. I’m blogging and follwing 2 games. I’m ready for all baseball talk but I dont think all braves fans are!!!
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
Tyler Thanks for “taking my back”.
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
Okay, Thorman got a hit…but somebody please explain to me the decision to use him in that situation.
By fastasballs
September 4, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
OMG Thorman got a hit…….
By MEB
September 4, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
The fun level of this blog is at an all time low. With jackals, trolls, impostors, Mets fans, and Stinky bloggers all in full time residence the joy of the blog is lost. Still a lot of good baseball discussion but not like the good old days.
Oh, the humanity! The Braves have the bases loaded with no one out. Well… keep the faith Braves fans and maybe the Braves and the blog will snap out of this funk.
GO BRAVES!!!
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
And why not Diaz instaed of “Pop-up” Harris (distant cousin of Willie “Pops” Stargell) with the bases loaded and nobody out. I give up. Cox is a true moron.
By TampaBrave
September 4, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
Willie “SKY HIGH” Harris
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
Okay MetroMan, if we get no runs out of a bases loaded no out situation, you can say whatever you want. I promise. I will never tell you you’re annoying, stupid, etc.
By Booger
September 4, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
It’s snot important but Bobby is using primarily the thumb tonight. Thumb pickers are merely scratching the surface. When digging really deep it is best to use the forefinger or a swab. Will Bobby hit gold tonight or will he merely retrieve enough for a snack? You pick.
By jay
September 4, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
In between the bickering on this blog are two pivotal baseball games. I guess the Brave fans on this blog don’t realize that brave fans have blogged on metsblog.com since its inception. This blog is fun because of the smart baseball dialog about national league east baseball. Met fans don’t OWN a blog and neither do Brave fans. Now quit the BS and get back to the games.
Which is the sole reason we read and post on blogs in the first place.
By Robert
September 4, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this
Crikey
By Efrim
September 4, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this
How can anyone say this team could win the wild card by going 18-6 in the final 24 games???
Bases Loaded, no out and we score 1 run.
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this
Well one run isn’t much better though…
By mr baseball
September 4, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this
Stupid managerial decisions have consequences. Bases loaded, no outs, your leadoff hitter up. He’s 0 for his last 22. You have a .350 hitter on the bench who plays his position. The .350 hitter hits righties about as well as lefties. Who’s in the lineup?
Amazing how many times the Braves start a rally, only to have Harris and/or Andruw kill it.
One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. After the decisions to start Harris and have Reyes bunt for absolutely no rational reason, I think maybe Chance the Manager fits the definition.
Bases loaded, 2 outs, 2 runs down, Tex up. Wonder how many times a guy has been Player of the Month and had less impact on wins & losses than Tex? End of another rally. I may be in a minority here, but the more I see of him at the plate, the less I think he was worth the price the GM paid for him.
Hope Cox learned one lesson from tonight. No more starts this season for Carlyle, at least not against teams with lots of lefty hitters. That’s something even someone of his limited comprehension should be able to deduce.
By Metropolitan Man
September 4, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
Tyler, go finish getting Paladins “BACK”. Are you a minute lover???? Ok that was my last 1. I’m done for now. Enjoy the blog (whats left of it). If I offended anyone who tolerates me, my bad. Everything was directed at the 2 lovers that wanted to make me feel special.
LETS GO METS!!!
By Lil' Nicky Satan
September 4, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
Paladin & Metroman, are you fair fellows done being so uncivilized with one another?
In case you fellows have not noticed, I have revoked my contract with Willie Harris and Buddy Carlyle. They actually trusted Lucifer and so did all of you. Can you believe that? If you know anything about my father Lucifer and me Little Nicky Satan, a contract means nothing to us. But if you don’t know me, then please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste
ROLL TIDE!
By fastasballs
September 4, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this
Too sad, one run by way of the walk. Harris has failed in every attempt to get a guy home from 3rd w/less than 1 out since the all star break.
You knew it was too good to be true, Andruw & Thorman had hits in the same inning so Harris was going to fail.
KJ has also been horrible in the same situations, usally he stikes out looking or something really down & in.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this
OK “Jay”, if you put it that way. But, who made you the czar?
By Robert
September 4, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
“Okay, Thorman got a hit…but somebody please explain to me the decision to use him in that situation.”
Donk began thinking, the dugout started smelling like fart gas, everybody scrambled to vacate the dugout, and Thormey took the opportunity to grab a bat and head to the plate
By fastasballs
September 4, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Ring is nasty. Next year’s pen is looking strong. Soriano, Moylen, Mahay, Ring, & Acosta are all looking good.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Did MetroMut actually leave? Then, my mission is accomplished.
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this
fastasballs
Who, exactly, will be “managing” that pen next year? If the answer is Cox, it won’t be lookin’ that strong.
By BravesFanInRockies
September 4, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
Lil’ Nicky,
Nice try. But I happen to know that Buddy’s carriage turned into a pumpkin.
I must say that for, what, four months, that slipper fit pretty well.
By jay
September 4, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
Paladin, I’m no czar. Just a baseball fan like everyone here. You make great points and so does metro man but when the conversation gets to this level it kills it for everyone else.
I’m a met fan but I enjoy the braves blog because you guys know your baseball. The “mutt and Chop Nutt” banter is tremendous fun. Some readers from here come to metsblog.com and vent. So live and let live.
Baseball is what its all about
By Robert
September 4, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
“Hope Cox learned one lesson from tonight”
Fat chance.
By gotigers72
September 4, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
If Buddy Carlyle is in the Braves rotation next year, the Braves will again not make the playoffs. All of you fans that think he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread because he is 8-5, he has an ERA OVER 5 people. Do you want somebody with an ERA over 5 in your rotation?
These are stats for Jordan Shafer, a centerfielder in the Braves minor league system at Class A Advanced Myrtle Beach. He supposedly can cover more ground than just about any outfielder in the minors. Baseball America named him the best defensive centerfielder in his league, as well as having the best outfield arm in his league. He supposedly has more than 2 handfuls of highlight reel catches.
His offensive numbers between Rome [where he played about 30 games] and Myrtle Beach were: .312 average, 49 doubles, 15 homers, 63 RBIs [he’s hit leadoff all year], 23 stolen bases. His only negative was 125 strikeouts in 570 at bats.
I’m not saying he could make the jump to the MLs next year, but if they could find someone to fill in for next year, then he would be ready in 2009. Please God JS, don’t resign AJ. I don’t care how many homers he’s hit, or what a great defensive outfielder he’s supposed to be [I admit he used to be, but his defensive skills go down as his weight has gone up], he has batted .222 for goodness sakes! Maybe not quite the lowest for a regular position player in the NL, but awfully close to the lowest. Let him go and take his baggage with him, and look forward to a Shafer or somebody like him playing centerfield.
By Anders
September 4, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Paladin Nice of you to use me as your low water mark now. My how things have changed. I guess the fact that the Braves went from a season high last Friday night to a season low by Sunday evening really took its toll on you.
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
If this game’s trends continue and the Braves end up losing, the story from most media and observers after the game will be, “another case of bad pitching (Carlyle) doing in the Braves.” However, as we’ve all seen, it is in fact another case of the Braves offense making an average starting pitcher look dominating and failing miserably in both the “fundamentals” and clutch situations.
By Pall-a-dim
September 4, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
I thought I thaw a thtinky.
Over there, over there!
I did thee a thtinky.
And I thoiled my panths. Wahhh!
By Tyler
September 4, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
If we can’t get Rowand or Hunter, who would you rather have, Corey Patterson via FA, or DeJesus via trade? I already eliminated Cameron.
By Braves20
September 4, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
Mr. Baseball - re your 9:21 post. You are not alone in regards to the Texas trade. He ain’t no Fred McGriff.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this
Jay You are most welcome to the blog. You are polite and well-mannered. But, I can’t understand why our “banter” affects you watching, and enjoying, the game(s). If it does, I suggest you check with your Doctor about some attention-deficit drugs. I offer this only as “friendly” advice.
By Steve
September 4, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
The bottom of the 5th inning is another of the near daily examples of why Bobby Cox should not be allowed to make strategic or tactical decisions.
This is a must win game. They’re all pretty much must win games at this point. We’re down 4 - 1 in the bottom of the 5th. We get the first 2 batters on base and it’s now the pitcher’s spot coming up. An obvious spot for you best pinch hitter, but Cox elects to go with the much lower percentage choice of Thorman.
But surprise surprise,Thorman gets a rare hit. That’s the thing about baseball. Sometimes the much lower percentage choice works out and the higher percentage choice doesn’t. So ok. We benefited from a stupid choice by Cox.
It’s now bases loaded and nobody out. Who could ask for anything more? Another chance to bring in your best average hitter, Diaz, who is batting .348, to pinch hit for a person who has been batting about zero for a week or so, and below 250 for the past couple of months or so. For all for all intents and purposes, Harris is currently one of the weaker hitters in all of baseball. But why should that bother Cox?
So once again, Diaz and his .348 average is left on the bench in a critical situation in lieu of someone who has been a terrible hitter for a prolonger period of time now. And did Harris do anything other than what was most likely for him to do in that situation, which was pop up. What a waste of Diaz.
Is it just me, or does it seem that Chris Woodward has gotten more at-bats in very important situations than Diaz?
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
Anders Follow your buddy out the door. If you have trouble, just ask.
By Tom Emansky
September 4, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this
Braves 20
I know Fred McGriff, I’ve worked with Fred McGriff, and Mark Teixeira, sir, is no Fred McGriff.
By bruce
September 4, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
Langerhans went down to AAA after clearing waivers for the Nats and is back up… pinch running at first in the bottom of the nineth Nats down 3-2 to Marlins. I like him and wish him well, except against braves if the situation matters.
By Whoopi
September 4, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
I want to defend Bobby Cox.
From where he comes from, in Oklahoma, nosepicking isn’t that unusual.
It’s like toepicking in Poughkeepsie, New York. There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of the country.
In fact, for many people in Oklahoma, nosepicking is a sport and it appears that Bobby doesn’t realize that he has a serious nasty habit.
Maybe one day the light will go off in his head and he’ll realize this was something that the entire country doesn’t appreciate.
Now, the Chinese have an entirely different relationship to nosepicking. What do you think Dim Sum means?
By Robert
September 4, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
Wait a minute. According to Donk, Tex is an MVP. And McGriff never won an MVP
Are you saying the great Donk is mistaken?
By Braveheart
September 4, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this
Anders, saw your response about Messier. I am sorry but the guy was a jerk in my experiences with him. Can’t really blame him though. The rest of them could sit there and talk to me and other people and sign autographs without being forced to sit there for hours upon hours like he would. So, I kind of understood his behavior - except for that time with the 4 little girls he ran away from. That was disgusting. But the man was otherwise impressive to watch. Just by looking at him walk through the parking lot as compared to the other guys, you could tell why he was the mega superstar. He just had a real powerful regal presence about him. Also, the other day, you said that Frenchy could not take Pelfrey because Pelfrey was 6’7”. I am actually quite a few inches taller and heavier than Messier but I had no doubt by looking at him that he could kick the ever living crap out of me.
Oh well, sorry about the hockey talk. Trying to keep my mind off how poorly things are going out there. Been reading Mr. Baseball and agreeing with everything he says. He lets Harris hit. Pinch hits Thorman and Orr while Diaz just sits there. Are you freaking kidding me? That’s why I am talking hockey to get my mind off of it.
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this
I love it when Stinky “mocks” me. It shows that something I said penetrated to his pea-sized “brain”, and caused him to want to “hurt” me. Fat chance! If he had the “words”, intellect or cajones, maybe. But, with his pitiful little quiver, no way!
By Braves20
September 4, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
Tom - Loved your video.
By bruce
September 4, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
and Langerhans scores and so did Willy Mo Pena, so Nats come back to win in bottom of ninth 4-3.
By ijonathan
September 4, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this
Steve
Save that post. Yesterday, Braveheart was griping about how none of the Cox detractors ever provided any examples, facts, etc. to back up their arguments. Of course, I responded that it would crash the AJC servers if anybody tried to put all of it in one post.
In a sense it is easy to defend Cox when you can use sweeping arguments like, “his players love him,” and “players play hard for him,” and “he keeps an even keel,” etc. You can’t really counter those arguments. Conversely, there are SO MANY (daily) examples of Cox’s idiotic managing decisions that it is literally impossible to summarize them all at one time.
By Anders
September 4, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Paladin Do you evertalk baseball or do you just stand blog guard all day long?
By jay
September 4, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this
Paladin-LOL! Hopefully whatever doctor you refer me to isn’t linked to any online pharmacy
By Whoopee Cushion
September 4, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
Dim sum means dumb @ss. “Nose Picker” is universal. Even the Dali Lama has been known to go after a booger or two. Sadam Husein picked his nose with an AK-47. Osama bin Laden picks his with a camel’s tooth. The King of Saudi Arabia has his picked for him. Bobby is a piker picker.
By All Hat No Cattle
September 4, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
Another close game, another 0 for 4 with one ball out of the infield. Hell of a trade!
By Greg in TN
September 4, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this
Evening folks…
Another brutally short outing tonight by a starter. This time Buddy Carlyle couldn’t get out of the second inning before being pulled and in turn nudging his ERA further past the north side of 5. I thought Reyes was able to come in and help stop the bleeding in the second and pitched effectively in the third and fourth. He ran into issues in the fifth and is still struggling to find the strike zone at times which is costing him.
I see Chipper getting more and more frustrated with each passing game. It was clearly evident tonight with JC Romero’s first pitch that was inexplicably called a strike by Rick Reed.
Efrim, I saw Jordan Schafer in Myrtle Beach last month and he’s going to be some kind of center fielder. He struggled at the plate in the two nights I spent at the ballpark there, but I feel like he’ll be ready to patrol center at the Ted in 2009.
By Whoopee Cushion
September 4, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Like your sense of humor, Jay. Seriously, you are welcome anytime.
By Booger
September 4, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Is Bobby a mouth breather? This could answer some questions. Carroll, can you find out for us? Thanks. Booger
By fastasballs
September 4, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
There’s a whole bench full of guys who are better choices to hit before Thorman & Orr. Is Cox saving Woodward for the 9th? He will probably pinch for Harris in the 9th.
I’d rather see Prado, Pena, Franco, or Diaz before Woodward, Orr & Thorman. Those three wouldn’t make the last roster spot on most AA teams.
I know most fans wouldn’t mind the losing AS much if the best players failed in the crucial situations instead of the scrubs, however I doubt there would be AS much losing if this was the case.
The pens given up, what 1 run in 6 plus? They bailed out Buddy enough to put a W on the board tonight, instead most likely another L is coming unless a very unlikely comeback occurs.
If Cox would start managing like he should he wouldn’t have to go to the other end of the dugout in hopes of changing the “luck” of the team.
DOB “Bobby, why do you keep running Harris out there when he in 0-103?” Cox “Well DOB, shucky darn, gee whiz. I mean his luck has gotta change sooner or later. Those pop ups have been hit on the nose, just can’t find a hole, it’s just unlucky the fielders havn’t lost one or two in the sun”. DOB “Well Bobby, what about Diaz”? “He’s only hitting .350, wouldn’t he be a better option at this point”? Cox “Diaz is a helluva player, can’t get him enough AB’s or he’d be leading the league.” DOB “Ah, Bobby, You didn’t answer my question.” Cox “Well like I said Willie has been unlucky.”
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
My bad.
By Robert
September 4, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
“Of course, I responded that it would crash the AJC servers if anybody tried to put all of it in one post.”
You know, you couldnt have said that any better. Or any truer.
By Anders
September 4, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
Braveheart I hear ya on the Pelfrey thing. As for Messier I’m sure that was a weak moment. He truly takes care of the fans like no other. The guy is a God in NY. “The Captain’s Captain” . They didn’t call him Moose in Edmonton for nothing. He has an onsite gym in a seperate building down in Hilton Head. He was working out year round long before others. Probably the strongest total body core that I’ve ever seen. No fear whatsoever. My favorite athlete of all time.
By Robert
September 4, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
” Cox “Well DOB, shucky darn, gee whiz. I mean his luck has gotta change sooner or later. Those pop ups have been hit on the nose, just can’t find a hole, it’s just unlucky the fielders havn’t lost one or two in the sun”. “
In other words
HEEEEEE HAAWWWW
By jay
September 4, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Whoopee Cushion- Thanks for the welcome. NOW GET YOUR BRAVES TO MAKE A COMEBACK!!! 4 runs in the ninth to win it!!!
LETS GO..cough, cough, gag, a little vomit…swallowed it…BRAVES!!!!!
By Anders
September 4, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this
Anybody out there who bets baseball may want to play the Reds tomorrow. After tonights win it’s expected Randolph will sit Loduca, Reyes, Alou, Delgado and possibly Wright to take advantage of the Thursday day off. Gonna look like a spring training game. I’m sure John Maine is thrilled.
By Robert
September 4, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this
He heeee hee Haw HAW HAW!
By Paladin
September 4, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this
Call in the dogs and p!ss on the fire, this hunt is over!
By Nutty Bobby
September 4, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this
I heard perhaps the best illustration of “what if” on espn talk radio today.
In essence the opinion is over the course of 162 games, there are less excuses for not winning than most other sports.
They continued that over the long season the cream should rise to the top and the pretenders will sink to their level. In college football, a season can hinge on a single game. In baseball, you can get clobbered tonight and tomorrow come out and start a winning streak.
I have to say the point made on the radio is pretty valid to me.
This year, the Braves aren’t cream. They are more along the line of spoiled milk.
By Tweety Bird
September 4, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
Help!
Thomeone thtole my identity!
By gotigers72
September 4, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
Why do the Braves continue to lose to pitchers that everyone else just lights up? Recent examples. 1 -Rick Vanden Hurk of Florida. Braves scored 1 run in 6 innings off of him. At the time he had an ERA of 6.90. Somebody’s lightin’ him up. 2 - Mike Pelphrey - Mets. Braves get 1 hit in 7 innings off of him. He was 0-7 with an ERA over 6. EVERYBODY was lightin’ him up. 3 - Kyle Lohse - 2 runs in 7 innings off a guy with an ERA over 4 1/2. Once again, somebody’s knockin’ him around. That old “the Braves don’t hit well against a pitcher they haven’t seen before ” is just pure BS.
This team has been the worst in the NL in the last month, and 5 games under .500 since they gave us fans hope with a 7-1 start. It’s over, the fat lady is now in full voice.
By Steve
September 4, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
With the tying run on deck, Diaz should not be given the green light to swing at a 2-0 pitch. A hitter in that situation in the bottom of the 9th inning should be given a take sign near 100% of the time. A 2 run home-run in that situation is still no more valuable than a walk.
By Booger
September 4, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this
No one sings about Bobby. Let’s correct that now.
Does your booger lose its flavour In the dugout overnight
If Chino says don’t chew it Do you swallow it in spite
Can you catch it on your tonsils Can you heave it left and right
Does your booger lose its flavour in the dugout overnight
It’s a catchy tune. Feel free to get out your banjo and pick along. Booger
By jay
September 4, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this
Anders-Castillo, Alou, Green, Beltran, Milledge, Gotay, Conine, Difelice tomorrow. Not bad.
Delgado may have a strained hip so he could be out longer.
By Bobby C.
September 4, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
Steve
“Green light”? What’s that? Is it some direction I’m supposed to give to the hitter, or something? Sorry, when Mel Diaz (or whatever his name is) was up, I was still glaring at the first base ump for blowing that check swing call. I knew my players really needed me to show how much I had their back in that crucial argument. The game was pretty much taking care of itself at that point, and I knew Harris was on deck, so it was all good.
By Tim Hudson
September 4, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
Gee, hk; glad I can trust your discretion. You could have at least used a better photo. :-)
Glad we had all those September call-ups on the bench so Willie wouldn’t have to hit in that key situation.
Actually, what I meant was glad football season’s starting and How ‘bout them Dawgs? WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!
By Todd A
September 4, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
Boy, gotta love this lineup. I mean, who didn’t see the two pop ups by Willie and Kelly coming, when we had the bases juiced and 0 outs? Friday night, Chipper and Tex were guilty of doing the same thing. We have a group of not ready for prime time players.
By jay
September 4, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
Not that this matters now but I was watching the highlights of Braves/Phillies and it looked to me like the runner in the ninth didn’t touch third base before he scored.
Can anyone say for sure?
By Tweety Bird
September 4, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
Hey - how could the Braves loothe to Kyle Lothe?
Wath it all thothe bayth-on-balth?
By Train Wreck Bystander
September 4, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
Buddy Carlyle is as good a #5 as we are likely to get, ERA notwithstanding.
I’m not gonna put him on the same pedestal as Smoltz or Hudson, but he’s been way better than what anybody could have dared hope for.
We need a #3 and a #4, though, to take some of the load off.
By Eric C.
September 4, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
Metropolitan Man,
YAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWNNNNNN. GO DAWGS!
By TNRON
September 4, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this
Listening to Cox after the game I really wonder if he has a grasp on reality:”We’ve got to START getting hits in those situations” (bases loaded 0 outs).Really? Willie Harris is 1 for his last 50,pops up every time in rbi situations and he thinks we’ve got to start?Why?What makes you think that? The late performances of Carlyle and Harris are only examples of market correction.There is a reason why no body wanted those guys.And frankly next year doesnt look very promising either.Unless Liberty increases payroll up to 105M I just dont see it,with nearly 60M commited to 6 players.I have lost all confidence in Bobby Cox.He contradicts himself repeatedly in his thinking (assuming he thinks).How much longer can Smoltz pitch at a high level?I dont have a great deal of confidence that Hudson can have two good years back to back (remember many wanted to get rid of him last winter).JS and Bobby will tell us how Hampton will be back and be a stud next year.Yeah right.Believe it when I see it.Sign Glavine? He practically begged to come back this year and we just couldnt find room.Hampton is JS’s Waterloo.And I agree as good as Renteria is he wont bring a # 1 or 2.It will take a lot of creativity to reshape this roster.Of course assuming JS realizes we are more than one player away.
By Robert Cox, Esquire
September 4, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
O, my offence is rank it smells to heaven;
It hath the primal eldest curse upon’t,
A pennant lost.
What if this cursed hand were thicker than itself with nasal juice,
Is there not rain enough in the sweet heavens
To wash it white as snow?
My fault is past. But, O, what form of prayer
Can serve my turn? ‘Forgive me my foul blunders?
That cannot be; since I am still possess’d
Of those effects for which I made poor choices,
There is no shuffling, there the action lies.
Even ‘tween the teeth and forehead of our faults,
To give in evidence. What then? what rests?
Try what repentance can: what can it not?
Yet what can it when one can not repent?
By fastasballs
September 4, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this
Steve You should know by now there is no such thing as a take sign in Bobby Cox Baseball 101.
BC Pearl of wisdom #17 A two run homer is as close to a three run homer as it gets, so never fail to swing for the fences no matter the situation.
BC Pearl of Wisdom #88 Bunting should not be practiced, only attempted in games, in order to give the other team the feeling of being ambushed by a tactic never practiced. Although it has virtually no chance of working it looks good on paper. When it fails we hit the 3 run homer. When that fails, what can you do, but chalk it up to bad luck.
BC Pearl of Wisdom #104 Never, ever change tactics during the season. Opposing teams may guess wrong about my game strategy, thus playing into my strategy which is the heart of my strategy, because I have no strategy. Yet again this rarely works anymore. All the opposing managers I tricked with my plan are no longer in baseball. It’s plain bad luck I tell you.
BC Pearl of Wisdom #289 Leave all favorite players in the line up no matter how bad they are slumping & move them up in the order so they get more AB’s & more chances to end slump. Once again this never works, but I’m staying the course because my players love me.
By TNRON
September 4, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this
By Train Wreck Bystander
September 4, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
Buddy Carlyle is as good a #5 as we are likely to get, ERA notwithstanding. You have got to be kidding.He has a few good games sandwiched by absolutely horrible ones and you are ready to annoint him a solid MLB pitcher?Are you related to Cox?Does anyone think if we release him in the off season he will pitch in the Majors next year.This is the same mindset that screws Cox’s thinking.All it takes is minimal success and he blocks out all the failures.Thats why Woodcrap has a job,not to mention pinch-hits in critical situations.And a slong as this exists we will be a sub 500 team.If you put people who continually fail in position to do so they most likely will.
By Tomahawkin
September 4, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
This 2007 Braves team is the most underachieving team in the game…Getting swept by the mutts and it seems like the team doesn’t even care that they are goin out like this
McDowell needs to go for this crappy pitching performance over the last 2 years…I tried to party last weekend to make up for the my boyz have been playing but it hasn’t work out…
I’m not giving up yet but this team flat out sucks…!
Grinch where u at? Did Labor day weekend get to ya, because them Braves are gettin to me…
By Tomahawkin
September 4, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this
I really get p** off when we lose to garbage arse pitchers like Loshe…Where’s D.O.B. when we look like some suckas like tonight I listen to some Pantera..I’d like to hear D.O.B.’s musical preferences when he gets p** off…
This is crazy…
By Oops, I mean Grinch
September 4, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this
I hate it when that happens. I was actually only Tom and Tim this morning; the other two weren’t me. Anyhoo, that 11:15 is pure genius. Who knew Bobby was so deep?
By Larry in Florida
September 4, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
can’t wait till this over,AS REAL FANS WE DESERVE BETTER,better pitching and hitting,we fans have heart,to bad team doesn’t,to them it is just a game,look at the Met’s (yuck), they play hard and win,even their announcers call the games with heart,they talk very little about how good their apponents are they talk Mets,our announcers take about nothing that matters for a Braves Fan,I am mad as hell about this season,watched them every home this spring at Disney,could see it then,no fire to win,not like the old days,when we had team leaders.Not a big fan of Schiffield but he hit on the head,when he left, no fire to win or player to lead,just taking the money some of the older,suppose to be stars, of the team,trade them all,keep the new guys,let them play with the doulble A spirit and soul,at least we fans would feel we had a chance,no come back wins this year,we get behind or scoring opt and the team just folds.Will be happy when it over this year,hope we get a team next year with double A spirit and bigs ability.Go Braves 2008
By Todd A
September 4, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this
” Cox “Well DOB, shucky darn, gee whiz. I mean his luck has gotta change sooner or later. Those pop ups have been hit on the nose, just can’t find a hole, it’s just unlucky the fielders haven’t lost one or two in the sun”. “
Robert, you ought to go on tour. D,jd….LOL, that was funny.
By rocky stone
September 4, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this
Love is a many-splendored thing,
for D-O-B and A-C-C it’s a wedding ring,
She’s old but she’s health-y,
a long time to be wealth-y,
an olden goose that lays the gold-en eeeeggggg …
By The Grinch
September 4, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this
T’hawkin, some Pantera is just what the doctor called for. The whole “Vulgar Display of Power” cd beginning to end.
By Tomahawkin
September 4, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this
Where’s headcoach at, I broke my Ipod throwing it at the wall tonight…This is the most frustrating team (06 was frustrating as well) I’ve ever watched since 88…2morrow we are on at noon (where im at) so hopefully we will get 2 of 3 from da phils, and I will go party wit da sorostitutes 2morrow celebrating da win…
By Tomahawkin
September 4, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this
Now Ur cating on Grinch Rite now its Danzing, and some Slayer as well…Gotta cook dinner some I will be bumpin some old Metallica, Im so ready for the game tomorrow, hell I will be skipping class for sho…
By Tomahawkin
September 4, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this
Now Ur catching on Grinch Rite now its Danzing, and some Slayer as well…Gotta cook dinner some I will be bumpin some old Metallica, Im so ready for the game tomorrow, hell I will be skipping class for sho…
By PrincetonBrave
September 4, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this
(hypothetical) post game quotes:
“willie-ly hit it hard, just happened to find the 2nd baseman’s glove. good kid, willie. We hit well all game, just that one bad inning.” Bobby
“We’ve got to start getting big hits with runners on, blah blah.” McCann, Frency
“We’re not giving up, we are still showing up everyday to win, blah blah blah.” Diaz
“If I was in there, I would have driven the runners in.” Woodward
“I didn’t even get a chance to strike out looking with the bases loaded, blah.” Kelly
By rocky stone
September 4, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this
Or, for you skeptics:
Love is a many-splendored thing,
for D-O-B and A-C-C it’s a wedding ring,
She’s old but she’s wealth-y,
and can’t re-main health-y,
an olden goose that lays the gold-en eeeeggggg …
By Carroll Rogers
September 5, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this
posted this a while ago, but thought i’d make it easy on you guys….chipper went on quite a rant after the game at the umpiring and says he wants QuesTec at Turner Field.
here it is…..
By CARROLL ROGERS The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published on: 09/04/07
It might be the frustration of the Braves’ dwindling playoff hopes or just a plain bone to pick, but Chipper Jones fired off at major-league umpires following the Braves 5-2 loss to the Philadelphia Phillies on Tuesday, saying they “ought to be ashamed” and calling Friday night’s home-plate umpire Rick Reed’s strike zone “a joke.”
He argued on behalf of Braves hitters — whose frustration culminated with a third-strike call on Yunel Escobar in the ninth inning that sent towels flying in the Braves dugout and got bench player Brayan Pena ejected. He argued on behalf of pitcher Buddy Carlyle, who felt like he was getting squeezed.
“We throw a pitch right down the middle to [Ryan] Howard that’s called a ball, next pitch is a homer — that’s frustrating,” Jones said. “We get balls called on us in our batter’s boxes, seven inches off the plate. That’s frustrating. So you’re seeing a lot of frustration being taken out out there on the field, and you’re going to continue to see it from now on as long as the officiating is abysmal. Major League Baseball ought to be ashamed. It’s abysmal. It’s awful. Not all of them, but some of them. It’s awful.”
He was putting into words the frustration he felt as he threw his helmet into the ground running to first base on a groundout in the seventh inning that stranded a runner with the Braves trailing 4-2.
“The first pitch that was called on me in a very important at-bat was seven to eight inches off the plate,” Jones said. “Seven to eight inches. The first pitch to me with the bases loaded [in the fifth inning] was in my batter’s box inside. Now you tell me how I’m supposed to hit that. It’s abysmal. It’s awful.”
Jones, who homered and drew a bases-loaded walk to drive in the Braves’ only two runs Tuesday, added a plea to get QuesTec at Turner Field.
QuesTec is the electronic camera system used at about a dozen ballparks around major league baseball to evaluate umpires. It has been used since 2001 and had its share of critics. Jones, for one, is not one of them.
“We have got to get QuesTec here in this ballpark,” he said. “Got to. Umpires have got to be held accountable. That’s Little League World Series stuff right there. It’s a joke, and I’m tired of it. Baseball can fine me whatever they want. I do not care. Somebody’s got to say something. I got more walks than strikeouts in my career. I know what a strike is. …
“I think in certain ballparks, they know they’re not going to be graded, plain and simple. So why not try and get the game over with as quick as they can? They have planes to catch on getaway day just like we do.”
He added: “They’re not allowing us to do our job, all we ask is a fair fight. Give us a chance to do our job. The stinking catchers are back there chuckling. It’s a joke.”
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 5, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this
Hoss, how about a little cheese to go with that whine?
By The Grinch
September 5, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this
Hmmm. Chipper doesn’t sound very happy. At least he’s showing a little fire. G’night, all.
By Lawrence Jones, Esquire
September 5, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this
This is the excellent foppery of the world, that,
when we are sick in fortune, often the surfeit of our own behavior,
we make guilty of our disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars:
as if we were villains by necessity;
fools by heavenly compulsion;
knaves, thieves, and treachers, by spherical predominance;
drunkards, liars, and adulterers, by an enforced obedience of planetary influence;
and all that we are evil in, by a divine thrusting on:
an admirable evasion of w******* man,
to lay his goatish disposition to the charge of a star!
My father compounded with my mother under the dragon’s tail;
and my nativity was under Ursa major;
so that it follows, I am rough and lecherous.
Tut, I should have been that I am,
had the maidenliest star in the firmament twinkled on my b*******.
By ijonathan
September 5, 2007 1:03 AM | Link to this
It’s offical, Bobby’s lasting legacy on the Braves. No, not 14 division titles. Rather, in keeping with his ejection record, he now manages a bunch of whiny, argumentative, complaining players. Bravo Bobby.
(Oh, and if QuesTec had been in place in the 1990s, maybe Glavine, Maddux et al don’t get all those borderline pitches and the Braves don’t win as many of their hallowed 14 division titles.)
By Tweety Bird
September 5, 2007 1:07 AM | Link to this
ooooh…they bleeped out thakethpeare!
Thath thenthorthip!
By Tonight on TBS
September 5, 2007 1:22 AM | Link to this
Quest For Fire (1981)
A prehistoric adventure about a band of forlorn warriors, led by “Chippa” (Rae Dawn Chong) who travel the land, battling diamondbacks, bear cubs, and man-eating marlins while searching for a flame that would replace the fire their tribe has lost. (Fantasy).
By Chop Chop
September 5, 2007 1:36 AM | Link to this
Nice to see Frenchy not make any excuses tonight. Chipper just can’t handle being on a team that isn’t going anywhere. He was a winner his whole life up until last season and he’s not taking this losing stuff very well. That’s a good thing, but lashing out at the umps isn’t going to help anything. Joe Simpson mentioned that the other day and he’s absolutely right. You’re just digging yourself deeper when you start blaming the umps.
By true fan
September 5, 2007 2:03 AM | Link to this
Why are most of you bashing the Braves?? Have any of you even played @ a level above high school? I only played as far as college but my god you can’t hate your home town team the way most of the Atlanta “fans” have. The Braves have had horrific luck regarding the pitching. After Hampton got disabled in the spring it was a nightmare. The Braves have started 5 different pitchers in the five spot alone. Wickman showed his age in the pen Gonzo got hurt and Soriano hit a wall due to being over used because the 3-4-5 spots in the rotation couldn’t get it done. But you can’t blame all of that on the Braves. Bobby has tried everything with the lineup and the addition of mahay, tex, and dotel showed how much they wanted to give the city a show in October. The effort and desire is there but this simply wasn’t the year for the Bravos. But you haft to look at the positive side. The Braves will win more games than they did last year. The team will be much better next year and Chipper showed he can stay healthy and carry this team. This year was a huge step in the rite direction of taking back the East. I have some reasons to believe next year will be the year. Here are my predictions. Andrew signs with Boston braves get draft picks and huge salary relief. With that money they lock in TEX long term and Dotel and Mahay for the 08 season. with the vacant spot in center look for Atlanta resident Mike Cameron to be running down deep flys in 08 and hitting around 290 with 20hrs. So already the offense will hit for more average and Tex will thrive in the cleanup spot. With the addition of Cameron the odd man out will be Edgar Renteria. I think the Braves will deal the fan favorite SS to a team with proven starting pitcher to deal. I also think the Braves will at least make a run @ signing Johan Santana who is a free agent at the end of the year. Simply because next year will be John-S and Bobby’s last year and John will go out with a bang. I think the Braves are capable of getting Johan because they have shown their willingness to break the bank for talent in the past. The Braves where second only to the Rangers in money offered to A-Rod a few years back. They offered much more than the Yankees and Mets. All this being said why bash the Braves when the team has actually improved. Next year will be a redemption year with better pitching and a potent lineup look for the 08 braves to win around 95 games. Go BRAVES!
By fastasballs
September 5, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this
Chipper is just frustrated with the way the team is playing. He’s taking it out on the umpires instead of the emotionless, putrid, pathetic play of the team for the past few months. Before the year is out Smoltz or Chipper is going to flat lose it in the dugout & throw a tantrum.
Maybe Smoltz should have called out Andruw back when he did Chipper, however I doubt it would have had the same effect.
Maybe the Braves need Girardi to manage this bunch. He got it done with a team full of rookies & a 20 million or so dollar payroll.
2008 could go either way, really well or really bad & it’s not going to take much to push the team one way or another.
In all reality another good starter & a bench would have been worth at least 6-8 more wins. How many 8-7 type games did they lose with the 4th or 5th starter on the mound?
I like the youth on the team & the guys like B Jones, Lillibridge & Schaefer(2009) that are on the way. Plus a few flame throwers coming along in the minors.
The problem is Cox & youth doesn’t mix very well. Remember the excitement Frenchy, McCann & KJ had when they were rookies. It’s gone. Escobar is next, it takes about a year before you become a “business as usual” player.
Chipper has been born & raised in this atmosphere so he’s becoming like Cox, cranky & b!tchy. It’s alright to have a few guys like that, but not the whole damn team. McCann & Frenchy are still too young to have Cox’s permission to complain in public so they issue the blah blah blah statements about being more consistant & keeping their minds focused.
I was in a great mood until I watched the game, now I’m b!tching more than Chipper & Smoltz combined. Oh well I’m leaving Thursday for the VT/LSU game so my mood should improve shortly, well until VT’s offensive line implodes. At least I’ll eat & drink well if nothing else. Night
By uga-brave
September 5, 2007 2:11 AM | Link to this
our corner outfielders have killed us the last 20 games. WILLIE IS 3-47, and 0 FOR FRANCOUER has six home runs all year at home.
from a pure production standpoint, a lot of this falls on HARRIS AND FRANCOUER. as a leadoff hitter harris is abysmal, and then there is the PARKVIEW SUPERSTAR. quit talking about how we cant do this or that. it is getting trite, for a change do something about it. you need to produce before you think you are the spokesman for this team.
as for HOSS, way to go, to bad you are surrounded by a bunch of guttless, players.
hey FRANCOUER, besides all the 12 year olds in the crowd, i think you are about a year and half away from wearing out your welcome.
By Serbok
September 5, 2007 2:11 AM | Link to this
Shaun Likes his stats~ I like my technology~ I’m ALL for QuesTec ! Seems to me I also have seen some pretty Pizz poor umpiring this season. I dont blame Chipper a bit for Biatchin!
By Chop Chop
September 5, 2007 2:14 AM | Link to this
true fan,
Playing baseball below a certain level does not mean that a fan can’t A) be knowledgeable about the game, B) criticize his favorite team for stinking up the joint, or C) expect more from the players who are letting him down.
true fan, the fact is that I played in the big leagues for 22 years. Johnny Bench and I led the Big Red Machine to glory in the 1970s, a glory which has never been surpassed by any collection of men in the history of the universe. The Braves just aren’t consistent. They haven’t been consistent since Gary Sheffield left. Gary is a consistent player. I’m just not sure the Braves have what it takes this year.
The end.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
September 5, 2007 2:16 AM | Link to this
I am sure I am not the only one to notice the umpiring of late has really sucked. I didn’t see the pitch to Ryan Howard that Chipper mentioned, but I did see the one that he complained about, they showed it on baseball tonight, and everyone agreed there, it wasn’t close.
People that laugh, saying thats just hte game, well….there was a a ref in the NBA who was crooked, who’s to say there aren’t a few ML umps with ties to the mob???
Not that any of what I mention above excuses the braves from sucking so much, or Cox losing about 50 IQ points since he first started managing…
By Robert S
September 5, 2007 2:30 AM | Link to this
Let’s look at this plainly, shall we??
**The Braves whine and make excuses for their shortcomings more than any major league team. And they whined tonight, as they have numerous times throughout the years. How many games has Bobby Cox been ejected from again? 130 plus? Point made.
Do they ever make any sort of adjustments to the situation? Of course not.
As Chip Caray noted on the radio broadcast tonight, everyone goes up there trying to hit a “five-run homer” (Caray’s words) rather than make adjustments and try to work the count. But then again, they’ve done this for years.
They always play into the other teams’ strategy, because they never change their own.
Winners adapt and change. That’s why an 83 win team like the Cardinals can win a championship (and could very well do it again), and 100-win teams like the Braves of the 90’s and early 2000’s can’t. It’s the same ol’ same ol’ with these clowns.
But I guess it’s easier to moan and assign blame than to look in the mirror and change.
These Braves will never, never win another world championship as long as they continue to play baseball in the same tired, boring, predictable way they have, and refuse to adapt.
This club gets the same (almost ridiculously identical) results every year with a constantly changing cast of characters, and nothing will change until a new, younger, and more disciplined manager with a new approach comes in.
Take it to the bank.**
By uga-brave
September 5, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this
cant remember a game we snatched from the jaws of defeat. that says a lot, no late inning comebacks, no late game fervor, just the same old complaints about us not being able to string anything together.
CHIPPER IS A WINNER, SMOLTZ IS A WINNER, ANDRUW IS A WINNER, there are couple of guys here now that have been thrown into the mix, that for now, have proven they are not.
name a big hit that FRANCOUER HAS GOTTEN TO CHANGE A GAME. his numbers are only decent because he plays every day. 6 frickin dingers at home all year. nine of his pathetic dingers all year have been with the bases empty. the main reason i am giving him a hard time is that he is suposed to be the future.
look at our record since he has been a full time starter, not so great, below .500. right field is supposed to be a power position.
if he was not a home town boy, he should be platooned. dont give that crap about the assists, i would trade about 8 of them for 10 more dingers.
By uga-brave
September 5, 2007 2:46 AM | Link to this
addition by subtraction, we need a true leadoff man. if that means trading JOHNSON or FRANCOUER i am all for it.
as a team we just dont put pressure on the defense, way to many K’S. there is enough power. the core of the lineup next year is gonna be HOSS, TEX, and BMAC. we need to surround them with a bunch of high .OBP guys.
the bullpen has plenty of quality arms. the priority this off season should be a STUD pitcher and GREAT LEADOFF guy.
By gotigers72
September 5, 2007 2:58 AM | Link to this
Willie has lost A HUNDRED POINTS OFF OF HIS AVERAGE, yet continues to play daily against righthanders. With that lousy uppercut swing of his. While a .350 hitter sits on the bench, [.325 against righthanders]. I really don’t understand that kind of managing. The righty/lefty stuff is way overblown in that particular platoon.
I love BC and have defended him on this board recently, but he has had an off year with stuff like continuing to play a heavily slumping Willie and hitting Andruw in the 4th spot when he was hitting below .200.
By Random
September 5, 2007 3:00 AM | Link to this
By ssiscribe (September 4, 2007 3:40 PM)
“Several games that should have been wins slipped away, either due to poor starting pitching, poor bullpen work, an inconsistent offense or a combination thereof.”
How can “poor starting pitching” result in a game that should have been a win but slipped away? How can “an inconsistent offense” result in a game that should have been a win but slipped away?
The only games that can “slip away” are those where you’re ahead in late innings, but then lose.
By true fan
September 5, 2007 3:03 AM | Link to this
CHOP CHOP Sheffield is consistently a cancer to every team he plays for he has no character. He has had public problems with many of his former clubs. (Milwaukee, L.A, SANDIEGO, AND THE YANKEES.) Causing problems and choking in the playoffs is about the extent of Garry’s consistency. He can take his dwindling talent roids and attitude and stay in Detroit. The Braves will be fine in 08. Also I think every fan should say what they feel but until they play in high pressure meaningful games they want know the extent and daily grind a player endures and the true disappointment that they feel when their team can’t get it done. I don’t think Chipper would go in a car dealership and yell @ the owner because they didn’t sell half the quota they where told to meet. Fans should support their team always never bash. I don’t know crap about what a football player go’s through so I just show my support and hope the team gets it together. As a baseball fan now I do the same because I promise no fan is more upset about the braves more than the braves players, coaches, and gm.
By Overlord
September 5, 2007 3:07 AM | Link to this
Hold on to your sits we are about to be passed by the reds in the WC standings……we should call them “the amazing 2007 braves”.
By Bubba
September 5, 2007 3:51 AM | Link to this
yea dudes , lets trade everybody. Smoltz , Hudson , Francoeur , trade all the stars. We need this team to really stink in 2008.
By BRAIN FART
September 5, 2007 3:59 AM | Link to this
Absolutely ! trade Francoeur. He is the top rated right fielder in the national league right now. Get rid of the young budding superstar before he breaks the bank. Francouer would help some other team win and we all know the Braves are losers.
By Robert
September 5, 2007 7:12 AM | Link to this
Chumper needs to go back to Little League, so he can learn Baseball Rule #1, which is that it’s a strike if and when the ump says it’s a strike. PERIOD.
Can Chumper EVER accept responsibility for failure?
Can anyone on or associated with this team EVER accept responsibility for failure?
Or does there always have to be someone or something else to blame?
It is pathetic. It is embarassing. Champions dont do this kind of stuff.
But of course, Bobby Cox teams resemble champions like turds resemble gold nuggets
By Yars
September 5, 2007 7:18 AM | Link to this
I recall a couple months ago, I stated that with a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, James, Carlyle, Jo Jo/Cormier, there is no way this Braves team can make the playoffs. Boy, did some of you let me have it. Heck, even DOB said my comment was over the top. Let me ask you now, was I wrong? Until Schuerholz addresses the starting rotation & fixes it, we can look forward to a 3rd place finish again in ‘08. The NL East is no longer a weak division, Mr. Schuerholz. I wish you would quit thinking that everything will fall into place. There will be solid available starting pitcher on the market over the winter. Be creative & see what you can do. We have trade bait. (Renteria, Prado, Brayan Pena, Thorman, James, Lillibridge) & finally, some $$$ to play with. Am I going to miss Andruw? Hell no.
By Fire Joe Morgan
September 5, 2007 7:29 AM | Link to this
True fan, Chop Chop is having some fun with you. Maybe you should find some time between lecturing everyone on why they suck because they only played ball in HS you can try to develop a sense of humor.
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/
By ssiscribe
September 5, 2007 7:35 AM | Link to this
Random: Not necessarily. In hindsight, when one area of a team massively fails during a game, and the other areas play up to potential, then you absolutely can say the potential for a victory slipped away.
Case in point: If the starting pitching struggles and blows up in a game the offense scores plenty of runs, and you lose by a run or two, then absolutely the chance of victory slipped away because of poor starting pitching.
Case in point: If the offense strands runners all over the place, leaves the bases loaded, fails to bunt runners over, and you lose by a run or two even though you get good pitching, then yes, the chance of victory slipped away because of poor offensive execution.
I think in the term “slipped away,” you automatically are assuming I meant those instances where the Braves lost in the late innings. In reality, you can let the chance to win slip away in any inning, and the Braves showed us (unfortunately) this season you can lose games early, in the middle and late, because of starting pitching, bullpen and offense.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By ssiscribe
September 5, 2007 7:49 AM | Link to this
Top of the morning, denizens. There was one positive moment from last night’s game I’ll never forget:
Sitting in the upper deck in the middle of the second inning, I looked up on the video screen and there were the three most important people in my life: my two boys and my wife (you could see my leg, so I guess that counts for something).
It was a little surreal seeing your preschoolers on the gignormous board in center field, but for about 10 seconds, they danced and smiled and giggled as my wife and I laughed and waved. It was really, really cool, and I was a proud papa, for sure.
Just a little something that brightened an otherwise dreary night at the yard. But at the end of the day, baseball is meant to be shared, to be loved, to be passed down from generation to generation.
My oldest told me this morning he’s going to miss going to games when the season is over. I told him that feeling never goes away as October draws near and the postseason has all but slipped away. I’m in my mid-30s, and I still dread the feeling of walking out of the ballpark for the final time before winter.
Only one time — in 1995 — did I feel happy about leaving the ballpark after my last game of the season, and that was the greatest game I ever attended in person: Game 6 of the World Series, in which the Braves won the world championship.
I imagine we’ll get down there a couple more times before this season — our first full season back in Atlanta — comes to an end. There won’t be any games in October to attend, but there will be a season full of friendships forged, memories made and family moments shared together.
I take a lot of solace in that this morning. Within that perspective, the standings just don’t seem to matter anymore.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By Jeff R
September 5, 2007 7:58 AM | Link to this
Very simply, “The Run” was built on superb pitching, perhaps the best in the majors for a long while. That’s the model this team needs to become truly competitive. THe post season needs to focus on adding, at least, a very quality starting pitcher and fixing the bullpen, which too often than not resembles a cattle call.
Management needs to secure and ironclad agreement from Liberty Media for the dollars the team needs for 2008 in order to really have a chance to win the East. Unfortunately, Texeria complicates matters. Management can’t back off trying to sign him to a deal, and that’s going to drain off dollars that should go to building a topline pitching staff.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 7:59 AM | Link to this
The blog has reached the point where you are bashed if you say something positive and bashed if you say something negative.
“It is better to be quiet and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt”. anonymous.
Seems like good advice to me and I’m taking it. Except for trashing trolls. That is always good sport and we don’t want to give them a pass.
By Apaul404
September 5, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this
Robert I have been fortunate enough to have the free time to watch at least 100 games every year since the late 80’s. Chipper has a point. Surely you are not naive enough or blind to see what’s going on. This year’s strike zone has been the worst I have ever seen. He is going to be hammered by the league and he should be. But if the strike zone is going to be unquestionable it needs to be by the book because these clowns think that it is their strike zone.
By Apaul404
September 5, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this
Or Escobar’s error vs. Philadelphia on Aug. 12 that would have been a double play and became a Ryan Howard three-run homer.
By the way, Escobar fielded that ball tossed it to MARTIN PRADO, who failed to touch the second base and then did not record an out at first.
By greg
September 5, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
I’m with Chipper. I turned off last night’s game after the first inning. Lohse got every call and Carlyle didn’t get any. He struck out Burrell, no doubt about it. Then he was forced to groove one to Howard. I hate this “my strike zone crap. The strike zone is from the letters to the knees. You want to speed up games, call that. No wonder Bonds broke the home run record. Steroids aside, he gets to wear body armor, and pitchers have to throw the ball down a keyhole. Ball and strike umpiring is awful in the Majors. Look at Eric Gregg. I hate to speak ill of the dead, but that guy single-handedly cost an excellent Braves team a trip to the Series. Some of the pitches he called for strikes couldn’t have been reached with a boat oar. And on the other side, he squeezed Maddux. We need Questec!!!!
By Arkansas Hillbilly
September 5, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the pics, hk. Nice job, Grinch. Good work on the drawing, Lew. DOB is like the guy on Home Improvement…his face shall never be seen in full by this blog.
I have never missed Esteemed Journalist Jimmy Smith’s commentary more than I do now, following Chipper’s rant that includes three-fold use of the word “abysmal.”
By TrueBlueBravesFan
September 5, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this
Robert,
I’m not going to try and say that the Braves always get the raw end in the strike zone but I will say that Chipper has a very valid point.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen Chipper and now Tex had rediculous strike calls against them. Heck even Mccann and Francour.
I don’t know if its because the umpires are getting worse or if they’re calling these guys differently intentionally because of all the flack that Bobby Cox gives them over their strike zones but I’ve seen a notable difference. Last night was especially true. Howard had a ball called on him that was over the plate at the knees. He then teed off on the next pitch for homer. Strike one to Chipper in the same inning was a foot inside. I had MLB.COM up while I was watching and even their pitch location showed it as inside.
Remember the Reds game where we had bases loaded in the top of the ninth and they called out Tex on a ptich that was a foot outside. I had MLB.com up then and they showed that pitch as outside. This is starting to look like some kind of pattern.
Im not a conspiracy guy and so I’m not trying to say the umps have in for the Braves but they’re best hitters no the strike zone (except Fancour) and gnerally don’t swing at inside and outside pitches and your seeing a lot more of them being called as strikes. And believe me if they swung at them they would just be outs or foul balls anyway. Or saw jobs.
So know what your talking about before you criticize Chumper.
Your act is getting old. You need new material. I personally think you need to find a new team to root for because you obviously hate the Braves.
By The Grinch
September 5, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this
Excellent post, Scribe; glad you had such a moment (I drop my pants everytime the camera pans my way and it never seems to make it to the big screen). I’ll tell you what always gets me through the maudlin feeling of leaving the stadium the last time of the season: knowing that I’m only a quarter of the way through football season. Put that Hank jr. song in your pipe this morning and smoke it, my friend. Or perhaps “Dum-dum ta Dummmm.’” :-)
Jeff R. I beg to differ that the bullpen needs fixing. Picking seven from Moylan, Soriano, Mayhay, Ring, Acosta, Gonzalez, Ascaino, Dotel Paranto and Yates (with the Vulture as a #5) would be more than adequate. The problem is finding someone who has the sense to use them properly.
Kudos to whoever did Shakespeare last night.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 5, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this
I’m with Arkansas Hillbilly up to a point: I have never missed Esteemed Journalist Jimmy Smith’s commentary.
By MEB
September 5, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
Robert… not only are you the biggest moron on this blog but you have become one of the filthiest. Posts like your 7:12 AM are a prime example. Don’t you realize that you are the “chump” and you are the one that needs to accept responsibility for your actions. The “nuggets” that you spew on a daily basis form a never ending stream of bile that serve only to anger and encourage bad temper. Dropping you from this blog is the only answer.
By Anders
September 5, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this
Before Chipper goes trashing the umps on the strike calls “off” the plate let’s remember that’s where Glavine and Maddux made their bones during their Braves days. It wasn’t until Quest Tec came along that it changed. As a matter of fact Shea has Quest Tec and it wasn’t until Glavine learned how to pitch inside the magic boundary that he became somewhat effective again. That’s why he struggled so much in his first couple of years with the Mets. Chipper was the guy chuckling while the other team was throwing their bats back in the day.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 5, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this
Maybe the umpires are just trying to atone for all those years of giving Glavine and Maddux up to an extra foot off the outside corner. Those two used to have HBPs that were called strikes.
When a player hits a homer and walks to drive in a run in the same game he’s calling out the umpires to deflect the glare of another lackluster loss by his underachieving team, that reflects badly on the PLAYER, and not the umpire.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 5, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
KC, now that sweeping the Phils is by the boards, we’re all waiting for your next Scenario for Optimism.
By TURTSNAP
September 5, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this
Chipper, I’m ashamed too. I’m ashamed that you embarrassed yourself calling out the umpires, trying to make it an “us against them” situation. The umpires and MLB aren’t out to get the Braves. Heck, half the times, when the pitch is right down the middle of the plate, you guys either look at it or whiff, or like last night, pop up to the infield with the bases loaded and nobody out. I’m ashamed too! Ashamed that the Braves have never had that clutch hitter, like an Ortiz, or Howard, or Wright, that you can count on to come through in big AB’s!
By Will
September 5, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
Give me a break Chipper Jones. What a whiner. That article and comments are totally embarrassing. This coming from a team who got 6 inches off the strike zone for years with maddux and glavine specifically. Its already embarrassing enough that the Braves rolled over and folded this year. The whining is at an all-time high and it all starts with Bobby Cox. This team can not lose like men. What a joke.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 5, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this
Sorry. The HBPs is a comment on the foot off the inside corner that Maddux used to get in addition to the foot off the outside corner that Maddux used to get.
Anders beat me to the point, anyway, and certainly expressed it much better.
By NO CHOP ZONE
September 5, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this
8 1/2 games out. The lights have gone out in Georgia. “LETS GO METS”
By TrueBlueBravesFan
September 5, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this
By the way. I give kudos to pitchers who leverage those calls. If your getting an obvious ball called as a strike you would be a fool not to keep going back there. Especially considering the fact that even if the player puts wood on it the odds are in you favor of getting an out. I fault the ump for having such lousy strike recognition. And I also fault MLB for not managing their umps better.
I will say that the adjustment that the adjustment the braves players need to make is instead of constantly trying to hit the 3 run homer they need to learn how to slap hit more. Work more towards contact. Because the 3 run homer approach only works when your getting pitches down the middle that you can groove.
By BAN THE *ROBERT*
September 5, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
Agreed , BAN ROBERT ! His constant mindless blather could be done without. It is truly ashame that one single blogger is allowed to continually destroy the blog day after day.
By Chipper Jones Tune
September 5, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
Many’s the time I’ve been mistaken
And many times confused.
Yes, and I’ve often felt forsaken
And certainly misused.
Oh, but it’s all right,
It’s all right
For we’ve lived so well so long.
Still, when I think of the road we’re traveling on
I wonder what’s gone wrong.
I can’t help but wonder what’s gone wrong.
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
Looking at the stats, I was surprised that the Braves have really been significantly worse than their overall stats with the bases loaded.
They are 7th in overall OPS yet drop to 20th when the bases are loaded.
Is this because they can’t handle that pressure? is it because there is something within them that makes them falter when the bases are loaded?
I don’t think so. In almost every other high-pressure situation, they’ve been just fine. 6th in OPS with runners on. 2nd with RISP. 3rd with RISP and two out. They are 19th in close and late situations and 22nd from the 7th inning on.
The problem is basically one player—Andruw. He’s the only player who has a significant number of at-bats in these situations that has performed poorly.
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
September 5, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Haven’t you heard, Shaun? It’s the umpires’ fault!
By Will
September 5, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
Shaun, The Braves cannot get a hit with bases loaded if their lives depended on it right. It is because they feel the pressure. They have tightened up to the point its laughable, usually they at least wait til October to do that.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
September 5, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this
No Bring Me the Head of
In Andruws case it definately is Andruws fault.
By Tomahawkin
September 5, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this
Aight, We can take 2 of three today if da damn offense gets it arse serious, and starts playing small ball…This offense is too one-dimensional…gotta stop relying on the 3-run homers, doesn’t happen a whole lot plaing in a pitchers ballpark…
By Anders
September 5, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this
That said, I’m certainly prepared to cut Chipper some slack here. The guy is an all time gamer and he’s obviously frustrated. I’m sure if he could take the words back or maybe rephrase them a little today he would. He’s a class act and has always carried himself that way.
By Efrim
September 5, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
Chipper
Shut the hell up and win the game. Enough b***.
Win the game.
Excuses are like a*****.
By Tomahawkin
September 5, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Man has everyone jumped off the bandwagon? I thought the road to October was gonna roll through the “A”, if we lose today we are done…
Btw the quotes from Chipper last nite have hit the Philly papers, and they are gonna run wit it…
By Look up from the stats, a game is going on
September 5, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this
Looking at the stats, I was surprised that the Braves have really been significantly worse than their overall stats with the bases loaded.
Were you really surprised?!?!?!?!?!? Watch a darn game every once in a while.
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this
Will,
Really? Funny how they haven’t in any other situation and funny how most of them are hitting pretty well with the bases loaded, except Andruw.
By Will
September 5, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
Tomahawkin, nobody is jumping off the bandwagon here. The Braves just dont have a shot in hell to make the playoffs and Chipper whining is just embarrassing. They will be back next year.
By Tomahawkin
September 5, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
People in philly are Clownin us for the dismal attendance at the Ted…We better win today, we can go out like this…
Hell maybe this team needs to fight in the clubhouse, seems like it worked out for the cubs…
By Will
September 5, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this
Shaun, Throw all the stats you want at me. When it has mattered lately the Braves have gagged on every scoring opportunity. Just because they were lights out in clutch situations in April that means nothing right now.
By TampaBrave
September 5, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this
I think anyone criticizing Chipper needs to check themselves. I agree with him. I’ve seen more bad umpiring this year than any year I can remember. So what if Glavine got calls, that didn’t make it right. As for Chipper, the man has given us his best effort and to see you armchair whiners jump all over him is despicable. At least he cares.
The umpires we have now are not skilled and are confrontational. They think they are the show. They need to find a better crop.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
Can we please agree that Mad Dog and Glavine got the benefit of an “expanded” strike zone for years without 10 or 20 more people “pointing” it out? Thank you.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
September 5, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
What else can be said? The Braves are done. While Chipper barking about the umps will do no good, I am glad to finally see some passion and frustration. I think the Braves have received some crappy calls lately but I think they have appeared crappier than what they may normally be because the team is struggling so badly.
I’m also glad to see Francoeur take responsibility and make the team accountable for its play.
I definitely think some changes are coming this offseason.
By Will
September 5, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
Shaun, Andruw was not involved in the Chipper, Tex, Mccann flame out with bases loaded Friday night. That game was over after that mess. I am not even defending Andruw i think he has been beyond awful this year. If only your statistical analysis could give the Braves a heart they would be fine.
By NO CHOP ZONE
September 5, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Last year they blamed it on the bullpen. What will it be this year? The Umpires…..Hmmmmm.
By Lew
September 5, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
Complaining about Umpires’ calls never really accomplishes much, in my opinion. However…..The quality of the officiating in recent weeks-not just in Braves’ games-HAS been abysmal. There have been numerous cases ML wide where the Umpires have decided the game is about them, not what goes on between the lines. The strike zone has been all over the place. EG.-That pitch to Rowand in the first last night. Carlyle did get a called strike, but the pitch was at the top of Rowand’s shoulders and when he ducked, it was damn near over his head. Now that one went the Braves’ way, but give me a break. The pitch Chipper was so upset about was in the other batters box by a considerable margin (6-8 inches into the other box).
Now yes, it is true, Glavine and Maddux lived a couple of inches off the plate, but at the time, the umps were not calling strikes above the waist, either-it balanced out. I was always of a mind that they were compensating for the power surge baseball was experiencing and bring some equity back to the pitchers.. That certainly has changed.
No, the strike zone is all over the place these days and the umpires have gotten contentious. Angel Hernandez and Balk a Day Bob Davidson are complete jokes. CB Buckner is not much better. I’m all for the days of Jocko Conlan, Augie Donatelli, Paul Prior and even Ron Luciano, shooting players out at second with a finger gun. They made the game about the game-not themselves. There really DOES need to be action taken by MLB to standardize things as they were meant to be. Not because Chipper, Bobby and the Brvaes say so, but because the whole situation is FUBAR to the max.
By Will
September 5, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Tampa, Umpiring definitely has its ups and downs no doubt about it. My gripe with this situation is the Braves have had a very hard time the last couple years losing with dignity. They have this attitude about them that they are owed wins or teams are just gonna roll over cause its the mighty Atlanta Braves. Its okay to not make the playoffs every single year, that is impossible to do and this was bound to happen at some point. The thing with Glavine is that it was all fun and games for the Braves when he was getting those calls and now they cannot swallow the other side of it and that is embarrasing.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
TampaBrave The point is: Beechin’ about umpiring at this point is like Wiley Coyote complaining to Acme about the quality of their “equipment”. It is what you do, or did, with what you have/had to work with. At this juncture, it merely sounds like sour grapes. Advice to Chipper and the rest of the Braves: Get over it and get on!
By MetsfaninATL
September 5, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this
What Chipper Says: “The Umpiring was Awful! That wasn’t a Strike”
What America hears: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
By Lee in S. GA
September 5, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this
I have only watched the games sparingly since the weekend series with the Mets began. To be honest it has been to depressing to bare. The look of frustration has set in with the players and this season obliviously has taken its toll on them.
This is the time of the season where you get a fairly good picture on which teams are going to the post season and decide on whom you will pull for in the playoffs.
I think Braves management will shock us with a couple of major surprise moves during the off-season.
By David O'Brien
September 5, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
UGA-Brave, seriously, Francoeur do something to make you not like him? Are you kidding with thios line: “name a big hit that FRANCOUER HAS GOTTEN TO CHANGE A GAME.”
At least until a few weeks ago, Francoeur had more two-out RBI than anyone but A-Rod since the start of the 2006 season, and ranked among the leaders in game-winning hits in that same span.
Do you mean in the past month, or are you going to exclude the dramatic walk-off hits he had in his 2005-06 seasons, and a couple he had earlier this year? Do you really not remember those moments?
By Tomahawkin
September 5, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
Robert Changes in the offseason, definitely…first get rid of McDowell, I have never seen so many leads get blown by the Blow-pen over the last 2 years, Mazzone would not have put up with that crap…So many leads blown, means that I’ve thrown my remote at the TV so many times….Hopefully It won’t happen 2day…
By Tomahawkin
September 5, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Ok gotta go to class shortly, need some mood music How bout some of that “Crank That” because we seriously need to crank up the timely hits today, because we can ill-afford to lose this series…
Goi Braves!
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
September 5, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
What is that smell? It has a foul odor. Ewww! What the hell is it?……Oh, damn! Snap! I’m sorry. Its you No Chop Zone. Its that old grease and hushpuppy smell. Man, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize you had graced us with your presence here. But, next time, man if you don’t mind spray some Axe on or something.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
DOB Thought you were going to take the day off. You’ve earned it. Let Carroll read this stuff for a day and then she’ll need a day off or counseling, or both. BTW, do you think UGA-Brave is actually Ugah?
By Anders
September 5, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
Lew Excellent 10:08 blog. I happen to agree with you. The biggest concern I have is that the Umps strike zones have been changing “in games” That’s the most damaging problem. Both to pitchers and hitters.
BTW- I see you mentioned CB Buckner who I think is a sub-standard ump but he did get the Marlon Anderson double play inteference call right. And it did take guts to call it to end a game. He gets one right all year and it burns the Mets!
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
Mazzone would not have put up with that crap…
Tomahawkin Leo’s Oriole’s “staff” gave up 30 runs in one game. Try again.
By TampaBrave
September 5, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
Paladin
Agreed they must move on but not saying anything about makes him complicit in accepting the status quo. I wish more players had spoken out earlier this year. But , better late than never.
He also was accused of whining about the schedule, and again, I agree. Not a fan of inter-league play. IMO, The current administration will end up tainting this great game by continuing to change it around the fringes. They were all complicit in allowing steroids to exist because it jazzed up the game. Likewise, wild cards, quicker games, smaller ballparks, interleague play, all-star game changes. All these things are designed for one thing only, to drain your wallet. It also attracts the type of fans I now see in Atlanta, one’s who were not pure baseball fans, but got suckered in by the marketing campaigns.
By TampaBrave
September 5, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this
Lew
Well said!
Will, take note!!
By Tomahawkin
September 5, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
Paladin I don’t think Leo likes it a whole lot in Baltimore, I would almost be inclined to think that he is ready to get away from Dave Trembley and his Crew out there, Leo has not been the same since he left Bobby and the crew…
And BTW did 30 runs ever happen in Atlanta, or anywhere else for that matter since 1900, take a wild guess, It could’ve happen to anyone…
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
TB The only “marketing campaign” I have been suckered into is Viagra. It makes the impossible, probable.
By Will
September 5, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
Tampa, I totally understand what you guys are saying and i do take note. Umpiring is sub-par and Chipper is obviously frustrated, but if it wasnt the umpiring it would some other excuse other then the fact the Braves are the definition of a .500 baseball team.
By Tomahawkin
September 5, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
Tampa Brave Marketing campaigns? you will see it today with this BS (“Business Man’s Special”), Where da hell is da college crew gonna be at? probably watching the game on tv… the atmosphere sucks at the park for these Business-mans specials….no wonder we get clowned from other fans across the country…
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
Will,
Sure, but Friday night is only one situation. You seriously can’t expect players to do something every time they come up. This is baseball, after all. The best hitters fail to make an out in 60 percent of their plate appearances.
The reason the Braves have struggled with the bases loaded is because Andruw is having an awful season and he’s come up more than anyone with the bases full.
By Rodger
September 5, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Will Hoss’ rant help him or the Braves? Doubtful. Should he have ranted? Maybe not. Is he right? Absolutely! Agree with Lew, the officiating has been worse, and more confrontational, this year then I can remember. When Glavine and Maddux were here, they may have (OK, they did) gotten calls, but they were consistent calls. Hitters, and pitchers, now never know from inning to inning, batter to batter, even pitch to pitch, what will be called. Inexcusable and abysmal!
By Lew
September 5, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Paladin-Great one liner on the “marketing campaign”. Do you and your loved one have matching bath tubs in the back yard or on the beach?
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Some love for DOB and some questions about the Braves’ future in Rob Neyer’s blog:
As David O’Brien notes today, in their last 250 games, the Braves are 122-128. And while they’ve played pretty well this season, it’s worth noting that their best pitcher is 40 and their best hitter is 35. Well, I suppose their best hitter is actually Mark Teixeira, who’s only 27. But you look at this team, about to lose their best fielder to free agency, with two starting pitchers better than average, and you wonder how they’re going to compete with the Mets over the next few years.
By David-ATL14
September 5, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
DOB, now that I see you are reading the blog, thought You would find this interesting.
Going to see Jason Isbell & The 400 Unit tonight in a venue that holds 150-200 patrons. Can’t wait.
On another more distressing note, my daughter(bartender) has been hired to work a private party for the band & crew after the gig. Don’t know quite how to view that. Should be interesting.
By bruce
September 5, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
Shaun, It has not seemed like Andruw to me as much lately… maybe because everyone is struggling so Andruw does not stand out… I think we really miss Edgar’s clutch hitting, both moving them over and knocking them in, starting or continuing rallies… without his bat, the homerun swing seems prevalent. I also think Diaz, with his average, should be in there every day, especially with the bats going quiet. Thanks, Bruce
By Will
September 5, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
Shaun, you are right Andruw has blown it alot this year, especially when he was still batting 4th for some ridiculous reason. Bottom line is they were still in position to make a move as recently as last Friday regardless of how bad Andruw has been and they have all quit hitting. It wouldnt be the Braves we know and love if they were getting clutch hits right now!
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
Lew I’ll say this about Viagra and then I’ll quit. I promise.
I love the part of the ad where they say, “If you experience an erection that lasts more than 4 hours, call your Doctor”. A wife or girlfriend would rip the phone lines out of the wall before they let that call be made.
By Braveheart
September 5, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
The only “marketing campaign” I have been suckered into is Viagra. It makes the impossible, probable.
Paladin, unfortunately for you it’s like getting your hands on a nuke but having no one to bomb.
By The Rocket Surgeon
September 5, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
The Braves would be in first place if they had traded Wickman, Thorman, Woodward, and Miller to the Twins for Santana, Morneau, Hunter, and Nathan.
By Blazon
September 5, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
most important CHANGE for next year…
GIRARDI…
BC has to go, it’s now past the embarassing stage…
the whole ambiance of the team has to be changed…we need passion,anger, discipline, some fun even…
thats been missing for years now, incl most of the play off years…
and now the strategic howlers are overwhelming us on top of everything else…
GIRARDI…
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
September 5, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
Going to game today, braves will win today for sure!!!!
By Will
September 5, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
Blazon, I agree with you its time for Bobby to step down at season’s end. Disagree with Girardi though, i think they need to go with Terry Pendleton. He is from the same mold of bobby Cox, which is fundamentally a good thing. I think he will bring a fresh perspective, while at the same time treating players with the respect bobby Cox does off the field.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
September 5, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, that was wrong man. Just wrong! It was flippin’ hilarious but wrong. Sorry, Paladin.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
Braaveheart You are not going to “sucker” me in on this one. You did the other day and I was the one that got jumped on by the Schoolmarms. But, if I were Sec. of Defense I’d trade all the nukes for just one nooki.
By Rodger
September 5, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
Will
You’ve got it right. With the postseason on the line, they’re already hitting like they’re there. This goes back to the arguments (civil discussions?) with Shaun last month about consistent offense. They still are among the league leaders in most offensive categories, but laying an egg with the season on the line just bites! Even Chipper & Tex couldn’t come through. And along those lines, is it just me, or is it hard to believe Chipper’s HR & RBI numbers aren’t higher than they are? It seemed that for a 6-8 week stretch, he came through almost every chance he had.
It maybe ain’t over til its over, but its damn close to being over :(
By Braveheart
September 5, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
A wife or girlfriend would rip the phone lines out of the wall before they let that call be made.
Not mine, they usually can’t wait for it to be over.
By DAP
September 5, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this
uga brave i just cant believe that with all the problems the braves have, you decide to harp on jeff francouer. geez, if jeff francouer was the biggest problem we had on this team, we would win the world series no problem.
i can only think of one right fielder who is better than francouer, and hes almost 40. thats griffey jr. keep in mind frenchy is 23 years old!!!
you dont care about his outfield assists? you know how many of them were at the plate? isnt saving a run at the plate alot like getting an rbi? not to mention just having him standing out there keeps as many guys from trying to go home from second on a single! his reputation alone saves us runs!!! thats just dumb, uga-brave.
his home run numbers are down this year, but his doubles are up, his average is up, his OBP is up, his hits are up, and hes gotten better and better ever since hes been here.
By Anders
September 5, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this
TampaBrave Good points. Baseball instituted the WC because they couldn’t get a hard salary cap without a long strike. This gave teams like Boston a second way into the playoffs without having to outspend the Yanks. Just think of what the last 10 years would have been like if the Red Sox missed the playoffs every year because they couldn’t beat the $200 mil Yanks out to get there? Of course it’s a huge revenue stream for MLB as well. Revenue sharing exists so MLB can fill out it’s dance card with 30 teams 10 of which have no shot at all but are willing to play along as long as the big clubs keep sending them checks every year. Why any fan would spend a nickel on the Royals (a once proud franchise) today is beyond me. I’d be insulted if I was a fan there.
By ncscoots
September 5, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
gods be merciful, I know the apocalypse is near when bloggers start touting Joe Girardi.
The other head-turner was someone suggesting hiring a bench coach who could “veto” Cox when BC was “going to do something dumb”. A sad misunderstanding of the table of organization, LOL. Coaches suggest, perhaps even implore, but they do not veto. I can just see a coach saying, “Sorry, Bobby, I’m not going to let you do that.” :-)
By Braveheart
September 5, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
A wife or girlfriend would rip the phone lines out of the wall before they let that call be made.
Not mine, they usually can’t wait for it to be over.
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
Rodger,
So the season wasn’t on the line until September? Guess what? Teams have reached the post season by playing well the first couple of months and hanging in there the rest of the season. Offense isn’t the Braves’ problem. If the pitching is better, no one would be saying a word about the offense.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
You “youngsters” have your fun poking at the old man but I just want you to know I haven’t forgotten “how”, I’ve just forgotten “why?”.
By Rodger
September 5, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this
But scoots, if only they could…
By Braveheart
September 5, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
Yeah,paladin, choppinmama laid the smack down on you for my misdeeds. and i stayed quiet and watched you get blame for my crimes. i’m kinda of a bad friend like that.
By TampaBrave
September 5, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
Make Love, Not War!
Great stuff!!
Will,
Disagree with you on whether Chipper would find something else to complain about. He hasn’t complained about anything that wasn’t worth voicing. To take that view without clear examples is an indicator of your own personal cynicism!
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
Anders,
Baseball instituted a salary cap for one reason: to increase revenue. More playoffs = more revenue.
By Will
September 5, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
Shaun, dont act like the offense is not a problem. They cant get clutch hits in games. They can pour on runs when they are up 10, but they cant erase 2 run defecits. Biggest series of the season last weekend they mustered 4 runs in 3 games. That is pathetic.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
Got work to do. I’ll come back and talk some more “baseball” with y’all later. :>)
By Lew
September 5, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
What part of Liberty Media’s agreement with MLB to not change management for at least three years do y’all not understand? JS and BC are not going anywhere. Joe Girardi? Give me a flipping break. Just because he brought the Marlins along a bit quicker in one year than most though would happen is scant reason to recommend him. Do y’all see what he has done to that young pitching staff? Johnson, Sanchez, Nolasco and Olsen-all DL’ed at one time or another this year. All a result of massive overuse at their young ages last year. Look where they are now-battling the Nationals for last in the division. Look at Sanchez-out all this year and until maybe the middle of NEXT year. Just because some of y’all think Bobby doesn’t exert enough discipline doesn’t mean the Braves should hire a maniacal little drill sergeant with a P!$$ poor haircut. All this b!tch!ng and moaning about Chipper complaining-Girardi told his owner to shut up-on the field in front of at least 200 fans.
By Will
September 5, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
Tampa, Didnt neccisarily mean Chipper, but its always something with this team other then “the other team was flat out better then us”
Shaun, Also save the every game counts the same/every series counts the same jargon. Last wknd was hands down the biggest series of the year. Friday afternoon the Braves were still in the playoff race, Sunday evening they had no chance to make the playoffs.
By Blazon
September 5, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
scoots…
re GIRARDI…
look what he did with just one year in Fla…MOY, the players played hard for him, he was only fired when he told ownership to leave him be…
he’s a player’s manager, intense, understands the modern game…TP is too associated with Cox…and has manifestly failed to turn AJ over many years…that was a great talent wasted, and waste is always management’s fault…
Blazon
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
Anders,
Also, do you think MLB prefers this perception that 10 teams have no shot or however many teams people believe have no shot? That does nothing for baseball.
They would much rather people think every team has a shot.
Baseball’s economic system is what it is because of revenue and because the owners/baseball and the equally powerful players’ union.
By Anders
September 5, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
Speaking of viagra - I see Shaquille O’Neal has filed for divorce. How would you like to be the next guy to take his wife to bed? Talk about trying to meet expectations!
By ncscoots
September 5, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
Rodger, perhaps the loss of Pat Corrales and Fredi Gonzalez (and Ned Yost before him) is more meaningful than I would have expected. Cadahia and Snitker are probably excellent baseball people, but they don’t have much history with BC and perhaps they don’t provide as much in-game input as their predecessors.
That, of course, would be just spitballing by me; no way to know the impact of any coach on a manager without being in the dugout, and I don’t claim to know either the past or present of such.
By Paladin
September 5, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
BH No problem, old friend. I enjoyed, as usual, our good-natured ribbing. And I have had more “smack” laid on me than the Rolling Stones Take care, nephew.
By DAP
September 5, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
Apaul i believe youre incorrect. the second baseman (dont remember if it was prado or not) tossed to escobar, and he didnt touch the bag because he was avoiding a slide.
By Anders
September 5, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
Shaun Baseball doesn’t have a hard cap. Big difference. I agree with you about more playoffs equal more revenue. That’s why they added the WC. Killed two birds with one stone. Soft cap and teams still can get in without spending as much as their highest competitor. Everyone’s happy.That’s my point.
Then there’s the lower teams who in their dark boardrooms have no intention of even trying to compete. If they catch lightning in a bottle so be it - otherwise just cash the revenue sharing checks.
By The Grinch
September 5, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, your main problem is likely that you have the wife and the girlfriend in the room at the same time. If they get along great, then it probably would be over pretty quick. If it’s like most wife/gf relationships though, the arguing and downright violence would probably not be conducive to a happy Mr. Happy.
Agreed a new manager is needed; disagree that it should be TP. One of Cox’s biggest three problems is that he doesn’t discipline/fine/force players into playing sound fundamental baseball. Obviously there’s not a single player listening to TP or they wouldn’t all be swinging out of their cleats every time they’re at the plate in a key situation; what makes you think he’d be more effective at being a manager (although surely to god he’d make better bullpen decisions). Unless, of course, they ARE listening to TP and he’s just giving bad advice, which isn’t any better. We now have a manager, pitching coach and hitting coach that are either giving bad or unheeded advice. The changes need to be wholesale and if they come from within it should be from the minors. IMO, of course.
Time to get some work done.
By Shaquille O'Neal
September 5, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
Better use a 2 x 4 boyz. My last kid fell out in the grocery store.
By Overlord
September 5, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
Im sorry to tell you this, but jeff francouer is not needed for his HRs. He has a good AVG., was doing very good on the clutch with 2 out until midseason. Not sure why some people is talking about his HRs. We have enough power in the lineup to get upset if he does not hist 40 HRs. And about his D, you are also wrong, this man is not about a cannon for an arm. He is just simply the best all around RF braves have had in the las 20 years besides Justice (JD was a rental). He knows the game, he is just a that does all the things AJ does in the OF, he takes away lots of singles, doubles and triples. Cant recall more than 5 bad play by him since he got here, thats way too high for a guy that has so many games played in 2+ years. He looks bad a lot of time on the plate but i thing he is slowly but surely becoming better. I feel fine everytime ball is hit to RF, cause i know there will be somebody that will make the best play possible on the ball, you better appreciate that, the guy is just a kid and i hope that when he becomes a veteran he is not in other uni kicking our asses out of the way.
By The Grinch
September 5, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
The next guy with Shaq’s wife will be rich. That’s worth having to strap on the hardhat/flashlight combo to do some spelunking. :-)
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
Will,
Not arguing their showing against the Mets was not pathetic. I’m just arguing that if the pitching was good, the Braves would at least be very close if not leading the Wild Card race.
They’ve scored four or more runs in 85 games. Only the Rockies, Dodgers, Phillies and Marlins have done it in more games, and of course the Rockies and Phillies play in extreme hitter’s parks.
By Anders
September 5, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Shaun Orioles, D’Rays, Royals, Rangers, Nationals (expos), Pirates - There’s 6 teams that haven’t had a sniff in a decade. They keep fans coming back on a hope and a prayer I guess. You can’t tell me anybody has taken any of these franchises seriously in a long time. These are quadruple A teams at best.
By Confucious
September 5, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Wife and girlfriend in the room at the same time?? Witch + B*** = Perfect Storm.
By Overlord
September 5, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
How do you like talking 2008 in early september????
Is anyone enjoying this?, cause im not.
By Will
September 5, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
Shaun, I agree with you about pitching for sure. As a whole that has been the ultimate downfall this year. Although i do remember several people including you telling me that i was wrong when i said they still did not have enough pitching 6 weeks ago to make the playoffs. You said Texieria and the offense would overcome that.
By Rock Climber
September 5, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
Place one foot on one side of the crevice and the other on the opposite side. DO NOT attempt this without a safety rope.
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Some may put more money in than others but I believe all teams are trying to compete. Some just know how to more than others.
By TampaBrave
September 5, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Shaun
Technically, the devil rays have a chance. You Betcha!! But when reality sets in and you can’t keep players you’ve been grooming, you have to constantly start over. In that environment, chances of Tampa winning a pennant are 1000 to 1. These players don’t give you an organizational discount for grooming them. In that light, we should just call these teams Fraggles. I don’t think anyone will get that reference. Best look it up.
By David O'Brien
September 5, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
Paladin, that Rolling Stones/smack line was hilarious….
Shaun, good point on the pitching. While the clutch-hitting and offense in general has stunk lately, for the year it comes down to pitching, on balance, that’s prevented them from being a serious contender….
David-ATL, where you going to see Isbell that small? I saw him with about 100-150 others at a bar in Orlando during spring training. Good stuff….
Oh, and Willie H. is STILL in the lineup leading off today. Sounds like a subject for a new blog, which I’m going to get to now. Please be ready to flood it with good comments.
By Braveheart
September 5, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Why do people think Pendleton should be the next manager? What do we really know about him except that he was a pretty good baseball player? What about him makes people think he is going to be a great manager?
Anders, the Orioles and Rangers are strictly bad management. In the late 90s they could actually hang with the Yankees.
In one of those luck things Shaun likes to refer to, what if Jeffrey Maier never caught that ball? Would the Yankees have won that series and gone on to win the World Series? And if they did not win the World Series in 1996 that year, would they have gone on to win 3 of the next 4? Maybe not. Steinbrenner probably would have gone berserk and blown up important parts of the team and they may have never won again. Who knows? What if Maier did not stick out his glove and the Orioles had won that series? Would Angelos have been a better owner because the team had won a World Series? Maybe he would not have given up like a quitter the way he has over the last decade.
But the Orioles and Rangers have zero excuse. Hicks and Angelos are just clueless owners. As for the Expos, Pirates, Royals, and DRays, they suffer from handicaps but no more than the Twins or A’s do. Bad management there as well. Every team has a chance depending upon how smart they are managed from up top.
By Overlord
September 5, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
dont forget the reds, rockies, blue jays.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
September 5, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
Guess I’m stating the obvious, but stick a fork in the Braves for this season - no playoffs, again. Sad, but barring them winning 23 or so games in a row, don’t see them catching the Pads, Dodgers or Phillies for the W/C. The division was over after the Muts brought the broom to town.
A lot of blame being passed around. It’s everybody who is to blame. Cox made some poor decisions that probably cost us a few games. Offense has gotten into the habit of loading the bases with no outs, and either not getting anyone home, or maybe scoring one lousy run. Starting pitching outside of Smoltz and Huddy has been inconsistent, and at times, just miserable. On the days when we get a good pitching performance, seems we can’t get the bats going. Bully has been uneven - lights out at times, and at other times, flame out.
Don’t expect any big changes for next year. Bobby ain’t going anywhere, despite Robert’s incessant braying. No major changes to the pen - with Gonzalez back, think we will be in good shape there. Obviously have to find at least one, and maybe two, decent starters. I think James will be better next year, and hopefully Cormier will stay healthy and continue to improve. We certainly can’t count on Hampton.
The most interesting thing will be what happens with Druw. He didn’t have the great walk year we were hoping for, but don’t get your hopes up he will take a home town discount to stay put. That ain’t Bora$$ style.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
September 5, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
I think there is way too much emphasis being placed on homeruns. That is part of the Braves’ troubles this year. They are always trying to hit the long ball. Believe me, there is no coincidence in that Francoeur is hitting 40 points higher at this point of the season this year as opposed to last season. He realized that he can’t be trying to hit homeruns every at-bat. Now, if he convince some his teammates and manager of the same thing.
By Anders
September 5, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
Shaun Trying to compete to a point. Clearly some teams have much deeper pockets and the system is tilted towards them. The Yanks make a $40 mil mistake (Carl Pavano) oh well, throw it in the pile and spend another $18 mil on Clemens. They added the WC for those who want to take the next step but financially can’t. The Red Sox while at $120 mil are still $80 mil Below the Yanks. That’s 4 players at $20mil each per year! They added revenue sharing for those that choose to be fodder to fill out a 162 game schedule. There’s money in losing too. They may not see it in annual revenues but their Capital Asset (the team) value increases along with the rest of MLB. Meanwhile they’re operating costs are helped being covered by the big market teams revenue sharing checks.These are very smart business men who know how to turn a buck. Even the owners of the bottom 6.
By ppaddy123
September 5, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
Well, since opinions are like …..(well you know but AJC won’t allow that word for fear of offending all of us) here’s my opinion of what the Braves’ needs will be…. STARTING PITCHING. I said it on the last blog and I’m saying it again.
For all you guys that keep saying we need Glavine or somebody to fill the 4-5 spot in the rotation…..what does that fix? THIS TEAM WAS BUILT WITH STARTING PITCHING.
I love Smoltz, but the guy’s gettin’ old, folks. How many times are we gonna’ run him out there and rest all our hopes on him. Give the guy his due. He’s had a hellava career. But it’s time for him to not have to shoulder so much of the load.
Hudson has had a great year. It was what we had been expecting when the Braves traded for him. But without rest, that nasty sinker of his flattens out, becoming very hittable.
I like Chuckie, but he has got to develope another pitch. He’s young and has alot of upside.
That’s three guys the Braves are going to count on next year. And, yes Hampton will be back, but he hasn’t pitched in two years and he will be a big question mark. Personally, I think he’ll come back and have a good year.
Is that the group you want to take into the playoffs next year? They’re all good pitchers, but we need an arm that can dominate a series. I don’t see it in this group. One game maybe, but not a series.
WE NEED A LIGHTS OUT NUMBER ONE!! Just off the top of my head are two guys very unhappy with their present teams: Roy Oswalt, Johan Santana. I’m sure there are others.
The braves will be making some decisions this off season that alot of us aren’t going to be happy with. Will they try to resign AJ? What to do at short? Keep Edgar or give the job to Escobar?
Personally, I can’t see Andruw being re-signed. I think he really wants to stay with the team, but we don’t need an expensive centerfielder. I think Francoeur moves to center next year. It’s the position he played in the minors.
Edgar has been the heart and soul of the team this year. But do we sit Escobar? The guy is the real deal. We’ll have him for his prime years at a low price. I would like to keep Edgar, play Escobar at 2nd, and move Kelly Johnson back to the outfield. He’s not a natural 2nd baseman and hasn’t “looked comfortable” there all year.
I am in complete ageement with DOB and others on the blog about Matt Diaz. The guy should be playing everyday! I would put him in right next year.
Willie will be gone. He has raised his stock value this year. I know he has been slumping lately, but he’s not a leadoff hitter. He’s an eight hole guy. I don’t know why Bobby Cox seems oblivious to that.
By Will
September 5, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
This is great i cant get enough of the blame it on the pitching comments. I was preached to repeatedly 5-6 weeks ago for saying the Braves did not have enough pitching to make the playoffs. How could i not see what the offense was gonna do, etc…? Best lineup in the NL as DOB called it. I make a couple comments about offense not hitting or getting clutch hits and now it is being explained that its the pitching!! I know that and have known that this entire time. this is hilarious.
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Orioles, D’Rays, Royals, Rangers, Nationals (Expos), Pirates—those teams are trying. They just don’t know how.
By Will
September 5, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Robert (JITB) If you ask Chip Caray there is no other possible way to score then a 3-run homer.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves in 2008)
September 5, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
At any rate , after the comments from Chipper , today’s game should be a little more interesting. I’m assuming Skip and Joe will be broadcasting the game on TBS and they should be highly entertaining in adding to the recent complaint’s from Chipper.
By Anders
September 5, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Braveheart Fair points on the O’s and Rangers. As for Jeffrey Maier - I lay wake nights seeing that pecker head reaching over Tony Tarasco’s glove to catch it. Where were Tarasco’s Crip friends when he needed them? Plus Richie Garcia the ump didn’t have the stones to make the right call. I agree that who knows what would have happened? Do you know Maeir actually tried out in a walk on camp for the yankees last year? Apparently he was a decent college player but not MLB prospect level. They actually have “The Jeffery Maier ” railing out there now so you can’t reach out onto the field. God knows it’s only 317 to that corner as it is. How much help do they need?
By Shaun
September 5, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
Yeah. I was all for Willie Harris playing while he was hot. But the minute he cooled down, Cox should have sat him. Harris had no track record of doing what he did early on. Once he stops, you don’t wait until he can do it again when you have a guy who really does have a track record of hitting quite well ready to take his place.
By Wayne in Utah
September 5, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
What is going on with the Diaz experiment??? Can’t believe that Willie is back, and two games in a row.
Braveheart What about Ned Yost as a possible managerial replacement for BC?
paddy and others:
Agreed that pitching is crucial for next year. For my money, we need 2 big pitchers. I would not be opposed to packaging Edgar and Chuckie James for a stronger pitcher; someone like Rich Hill of the Cubs Chicago or Mark Buehrle.
Also, would you guys trade someone like Jeff Francoeur if it brought a top notch young pitcher? Some like a Matt Cain? Or maybe package him for someone like Santana or Oswalt? Not being too specific, as I don’t need to get reamed today, but just speaking in generalities. And BTW, I really like Frenchy a LOT!
By Overlord
September 5, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
i have taken a vacation from the braves last few days.
Could anyone give me some detail on what is that about chipper coments or at least give me a link to read it¿????
By Lee in S. GA
September 5, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
There is a possibility of around 7 to 8 roster changes before the start of next season. A.J and Harris are definitely at the top of the departed list.
A win today would be nice. Right now anything below a 500 finish record would really be embarrassing.
By Braveheart
September 5, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I think Ned Yost would be a fine choice. Not sure the Brewers would want to see him go - or maybe they would with their collapse - which would probably be a shame because he seems to have done a good job with a very young team.
I’m also not saying Pendleton would not be a fine choice as well - I like him alot so I hope he can be. I just don’t know much about him that would make me think he would be the answer.
By Lee in S. GA
September 5, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah
Right now I would not trade Francoeur. With McCann signed for several years, it appears he and Francoeur may be the faces of this Braves team.
Chipper and Smoltz are not getting any younger…..their days are limited.
By Braveheart
September 5, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
scroll up overlord to the middle of the night. carroll put it up there
By ijonathan
September 5, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
Day game after a night game, perfect time to give a guy like Willie “Pops-up” Harris a day off, but no. These are the types of situation where Bobby often goes with his triple-A lineup, but even Bobby is contradicting the usually moronic Bobby manoeuvre (sorry, two idiot moves don’t cancel each other out to make a smart one).
By mr baseball
September 5, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Another day, another brain-dead lineup from Chance the Manager. How many at bats does Willie Harris have to go without sniffing a hit before Bobby Cox takes him out the leadoff spot in the order? This is bordering on criminal stupidity/insanity.
The saying goes that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I think the manager’s recent actions fit that definition.
A lot of people here don’t agree with the concept of platooning, but it is an effective strategy when applied correctly. Unfortunately, the decider in the dugout doesn’t understand how and why it works, and continues to employ that managerial tool incorrectly and ineffectively.
Platoons exist for the sole purpose of allowing managers to sit out LH hitters against LH pitchers they have trouble against. In virtually every platoon situation, the LH hitter is the superior player and gets the majority of the playing time.
In the case of the Braves’ left fielders, the superior player is the RH hitter. When Harris was getting on base a lot and running the bases effectively, he deserved a spot in the lineup on a regular basis, if not every day against RH pitchers.
But now that’s he completely quit hitting, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for him to be in the lineup, let alone batting leadoff. Continuing to use him in that capacity is beyond stupid, but outside this blog, I doubt anyone is going to call Cox on it. The next time someone from the AJC has the temerity to criticize Cox for his obvious incompetence in matters of strategy will be the first time.
It’s time that someone high up in the Braves’ front office discreetly suggests to Cox that it may be time for him to step down. While they’re at it, someone should deliver a similar message to the GM, who bears most of the responsibility for assembling a second-rate pitching staff. Neither is going to happen, but we can always hope.
With his continued use of Harris in the leadoff spot, his refusal to make the slightest adjustment in the batting order considering the team’s offensive struggles and his typical problems of handling the bullpen, Cox has proven that he no longer has the ability to manage at a major league level. As long as he was getting maximum effort out of his players, his strategic shortcomings could be overlooked, but that’s no longer the case.
If he’s still in the dugout next Spring, it will be three straight seasons without playoffs for the Braves.
By 22oz
September 5, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Willie is still getting playing time because of the pressure from the Rainbow Coalition.
By ijonathan
September 5, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
It’s official…Tim Hudson has “hit the wall”
By TURTSNAP
September 5, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
If “if’s” and “but’s” were candy and nuts, we’d all have a MERRY CHRISTMAS
By Will
September 5, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
Huddy is hitting his october stride a month early, just like the offense.
By Rodger
September 5, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
Sounds like Willie just refused to give up the opportunity to be thrown out trying to steal second?
By Wayne in Utah
September 5, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
Lee agree with your “face of the franchise” point. Actually, we have some new potential “faces of the franchise” in KJ, Escobar, Tex (if we can just sign him!)…
Your point about Smoltz and Chipper not getting any younger is exactly the reason I think we need to go after TWO arms this winter. Personally, if Chuck James stays, he should be a 5th starter in my mind, for the very reason you mention: Smoltz is not getting any younger. He might pitch great next year, but he also might not have another decent year at his age.
So, we gotta have 2 more arms we can count on with Hudson being the anchor (not withstanding his game today sucking so far!). The only FA out there that is in the least bit interesting is Carlos Silva, at 28 years old.
I don’t understand the talk about Glavine. He is another Smoltz. Not sure what you would get next year???
By Overlord
September 5, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
Wayne no pitcher is worth it for jeff. The guy is a gamer, he would do anything for this team just like chipper.
It is a hard decision will need to do. There are too many untouchable guys in this team as i see it.
I think team is young enough to keep trading prospects.
To my point of view here are the players the braves CANT TRADE OR LET GO because that would be weakening the team.
CHIPPER
TEX
MATT
JEFF
KELLY
ACOSTA
YUNEL
RENTERIA
SORIANO
GONZO
MOYLAN
MAHAY
MAYBE DOTEL, not so sure about that one
BRIAN
TIM
SMOLTZ
Anybody else is expendable.
AJ is a MUST GO
WILLIE easily replaceable
THORMAN must go, maybe yunel can play 1st and back up tex if needed, but they can find a back up in peña also, i think.
WOODCRAP the name speaks for itself.
JAMES i would say this guy must stay, we have been patient enough, lets use the benefit of what time is doing to him. Built around him with a veteran or 2.
YATES he makes no harm and will only get better, could be used in trade.
By Lew
September 5, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
Oh, The Humanity-Signs of the approaching apocalypse. The best play of the day is turned in by a 14 year old kid in the stands and Willie can’t take a base because he was running to the bullpen. But….He did take out the second baseman AND the shortstop breaking up a double play.
By fastasballs
September 5, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
What big name pitchers are free agents after the 2008 season? Hampton will be off the books by then & the money he is getting should be enough to land a front line starter unless the money is used to sign Tex long term.
I don’t see Andruw back, huge waste of money IMO. Schaefer by all I have read is an extraordinary fielder & can hit for average & power. Granted he probably isn’t ready until 2009, so we need a 1 year fix in CF via free agency or someone within, maybe Blanco.
I don’t see what big name pitcher is signed, unless it’s Glavine, for 2008 unless they work some contract with the majority of the money being deffered until after 2008. Still the wild card is how much money Liberty pumps into the team.
Edgar I believe will be traded, they get a bit of salary relief & maybe gain a pitcher, not a 1 or 2, but somebody effective.
I’m sure with this year’s rotation disasters, JS will load up on starters, it’s not a bad play because they can be trade bait that generates lots of prospects to the right team.
By rammerjammer
September 5, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
It is, and always will be, about pitching.
Braves thought they had it, then they lost Hampton.
Thought they had depth, then they lost Cormier.
Thought they had an up-and-comer, then Davies didn’t develop.
Thought they had a stop-gap with Redman, and they didn’t. Ditto Lerew. Ditto Carlyle. Ditto Reyes.
Thought they had a lefty ace reliever, then they lost Gonzalez.
Thought McBride might help, and he didn’t.
Thought Wickman could weave two years of magic, and he couldn’t.
As you can see, it hasn’t been for lack of effort, this pitching problem. Some guys underperformed, and others got injured.
We’ve seen some bright spots for the future (Ascaino, Acosta) that might otherwise not been here this year.
But it’s still gonna come down to JS getting at least one more rotation-ready pitcher for 2008, or this team will again tread water.
By Will
September 5, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
Whoever said Tim Hudson has hit the wall earlier hit the nail on the head. What a joke. I am starting to wonder if this team can hold off the Nationals and Marlins.
By David O'Brien
September 5, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG IS UP. Let’s do it, folks, don’t go down as quietly as the Braves are….
By bill
September 5, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this
McDowell will be fine. He just don’t have the pitchers to work with like Mazonne did. Anyone would look good if they had Avery,Maddux,Smoltz and Glavine. JS and BC can leave at any time. If they wanted to retire after this season, Liberty Media would have no control over them.
By Overlord
September 5, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
CORMIER is a good guy braves just need to know where to put him, 5th is a good spot, maybe bullpen. But i like this guy, he wants to win. And he will be better.
HAMPTON, i would try to trade him as soon as i can the moment something smells like rats.
PRADO id say the guy would be ok on the bench.
JOJO not ready not even in 2008.
I said it and ill repeat it. YUNEL must stay, he could back up 3/4 of the IF, he could start 100 games and we could keep IF fresh. Then Renteria goes in 2009 and we still have yunel.
By Lee in S. GA
September 5, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
Overlord -
Agree with your list. Renteria may be a goner though for pitching help.
By Wayne in Utah
September 5, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
Overlord
Last year, who would have thought LaRoche would be traded away? And many of us felt the same way about Marcus Giles a few years ago.
I suspect 2-3 of your untouchables will be gone before opening day 2008.
How can we justify keeping 2 top notch shortstops when we are so needy in the rotation? General feeling is that Renteria will go, since we traded away Andrus. BUT, with Lillibridge in the wings, Escobar is also a candidate to go.
For my money, I package Renteria, James and maybe someone like Boyer or Dan Smith and try to upgrade our rotation.
My only thoughts on moving someone else of high caliber, is this: Who could be replaced more easily? Look at our potential HR totals for next year: McCann (25), Tex (35), KJ (20), Renteria (15) or Escobar (5), Chipper (25), Frenchy (30), Diaz/BJones (20). Who of that bunch could bring a true stopper?
A couple of our biggest prospects are corner outfielders: Heyward and Johnson. There are more rental OF’s out there than starting pitchers.
Just thinking out loud.
By BUSHWACKER
September 5, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
Its time for Schuerholz and Bobby to move on, you know, that whole PLATEAU thing that got Leeman Bennett fired.
Plus,I do not understand it. Smolts iz still here, and yes he is one of the most dominant pithcers in baseball, but why are Glavine and Ma ddux not back in Atlanta uniforms after their contracts ran out with Mets and Cubs.
I’m sure Glavine would have woked out simething to get back and where would we be today if along with Smoltz and Hudson we had Glavine and Maddux, 2 veteran 300 games winners who might not be as dominanat as they once were but are still good enough to be a #2 starter.
Glavine and Maddux as our 3rd and 4th starters, keeping us in every game and giving us a chance to win…
God willing somehow they both end up in Atlanta next year on the cheap because winning a championship together again as Braves is more important to thme than money.
Think about it, Smoltz, Hudson,Glavine and Maddux as your 1-4 starters next year, with Galvine and Maddux starting games 3 and 4 in the playoffs.
Wow that would be great, we win another World Series then Bobby, Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux all retire together and all go in teh Hall of Fame together.
WE SURE COULD USE A FEEL GOOD STORY LIKE THAT IN SPORTS RIGHT ABOUT NOW!!!
J.S. you know you could make it happen, do it and retire as the greatest GM of all time!!!
By flange1
September 5, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Excellant comment on the Umpire situation. You are right on with your comments.
By ObiWanKobe
September 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
wow