Braves

By iluvmccann

August 28, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Woo! Hoo! First post. Anywho, quick question, while watching the 3 back-end starters, why do they almost always look good the first time through the order and then get clobbered the second time through? I remember thinking each game, “Wow we may get a win out of this guy” then the 3rd or 4th inning, then BAM!!!! Is that not making the right adjustments or just not good stuff?

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Bring in a young centerfielder, who has a-lot of speed, or put Willie Harris out there

If anyone looks at the number of stolen bases the Mutts team as compared to ours, its crazy, and thats probably why the mutts have a 6 game lead on us. All those 1-run games we have lost becuz our blow-pen blows leads and we have little team speed to get the 1 run that always ends up killing us

Look at Jose Reyes, the dude is gonna steal at least 85 bases, barring injury, just Imaging if we had someone how had at least 50 steals, I’d bet our record in 1-run games would be a lot better…resulting in us being near the top

D.O.B. said it rite about the rotation, Long gone R the dayz where we would get a 4 run lead, and it would be an automatic “W”

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

How ironic it is that the force that took the Braves into the postseasson for 14 consecutive years is the force keeping them away for possibly the second consecutive season.

But what SP is out there for next year that could make a difference, even if Liberty gives the Braves the liberty (get it!) to spend another $10M?

Also, I, for one, personally think AJ is having an off year because he really doesn’t want to leave the Braves, and that is wearing on him. Just my opinion.

Wow, what a negative post. I apologize. Still, the Braves are my team, and if I don’t get to watch them in Oct, well, at least I did from April - Sept.

Great work as always DOB, thank you.

Geaux Braves!!

By Kieran from Long Island

August 28, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

David, just curious, have you ever worked a radio show? Not as a guest but as a host? I heard you up here in New York last year on the Michael Kay Show, would hope to hear you more often.

By Ron Roberts

August 28, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

I’d like a candid appraisal from Andruw Jones about his performance this season and how he’d cut the Braves some slack if they wanted to keep him for a 1-year trial balloon in 2008.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

“Bring in a young centerfielder, who has a-lot of speed, or put Willie Harris out there”

When I said that I was referring to next year…

D.O.B. What happens to Mike Hampton next year, is there anyway we can opt out of his contract, or trade him, (I doub’t either will happen) but if we can’t lets press hard for Torii Hunter…The cheaper route however once A. Jones leaves is to Bring in a young centerfielder, who has a-lot of speed, or put Willie Harris out there

By Colin

August 28, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

This is would be my starting lineup for next year in a perfect world

1.KJ (2b) 2.Diaz(LF) 3.Chipper(3b) 4.Tex(1b) 5.Cameron(CF) 6.McCann(C) 7.Frank(RF) 8.Escobar(SS) 9.Hudson(Opening Day Starter)

I would love the idea of having Cameron is CF he is a excellent ball player.

Starters

1.Hudson 2.Smoltz 3.Garland (Got in the Edgar Trade) 4.Cormier 5.Oscar( I know Oscar but he deserved a shot this year)

I’m only guessing…feel free to chime in

By ChampDawg

August 28, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

I have been known to be negative about Andruw in my posts. I don’t think his talent is worth what he and his agent think it is, but nevertheless I’d like to see him remain on the Braves. It’s all really up to Andruw. Will he be willing to stay for what the Braves offer him or will he chase the money like Glavine? Andruw has said he wants to remain a Brave. Really? Then it’s up to Andruw to help make it happen. I think his performance this year has hindered the Braves but I’d like to see Texiera and him stay. This offense with some improved pitching for next year would look mighty good!

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Geaux Braves Ur Comment…

“Also, I, for one, personally think AJ is having an off year because he really doesn’t want to leave the Braves, and that is wearing on him. Just my opinion.”

I hope you’re right in a way it will result in a hometown discount, Its gonna make me puke if I see A. Jones and Borass…sell out to a team like WhineBrenner and the Yankees…

By rammerjammer

August 28, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Danged funny line about the bold face type.

I can appreciate Andruw’s candor, but really, the only way to get quality starting pitching (under TW) would’ve been to deal a quality position player such as McCann or Francoeur.

It’s just been a tough-luck season for Braves pitching, and you can’t go “fix it” by making a trade every time someone goes on the DL.

I know one thing. There were a LOT of games in May, June and July where Andruw’s lack of performance made a big difference. Funny how he didn’t mention that.

By Lew

August 28, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin-Dude, don’t mistake base stealing ability for team speed. They are not one and the same. We have plenty of team speed. Johnson has ten triples, Chipper runs the bases well- so do Escobar, Diaz and Francoeur. Andruw is not slow, either-at least when he gets on base (he’s slow from home to first). McCann is certainly not fast. As far as Willie Harris-In center field? Dude, with the exception of that one HR he robbed, I’m less than impressed with his defense and his offense has become non-existent. He is no longer hitting over .300 and the tailspin will continue. He had his one shining moment in the sun and is now Devo-ing into his career .238 self. He can’t steal bases to save his life. He can’t move runners up. Just how many times has his caught stealing destroyed a rally? Damn near as often as Andruw’s slump. Harris must go-not become our starting CF. Not to mention he has zero power. Speed does you no good if you don’t know how to use it. Oh yeah-He can’t hit LHP, either.

By beachcomber

August 28, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

DOB - great post. How simple it seemed in spring. We get Smoltz, Hudson and Hampton to throw 6-7 inning a start and then bring in the big boys (Gonzalez, Soriano and Wickman). Every game a 6-inning affair and whatever we get from Davies and James is gravy.

Holy Dan Kolb! Look at us now. I think in all our hearts, Wickman would not be the closer by September. But Gonzalez, Hampton, the Davies meltdown, not to mention Dotel.

Goes to prove - you can never have enough pitching. Our ‘08 line-up will be power-laden. The sole focus should a solid #3 and a few patches in the pen. Everything else is secondary.

By flange1

August 28, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog DOB!

Interesting comments from Dru.

Will there be a pitch limit for Smoltz while working on short rest?

Thanks

By DAP

August 28, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

any body else like willy tavares in center?

my first choice for the id like things to work out is that brandon jones plays center (not sure if he can) and he have diaz, jones, frechy in the outfield, freeing up alot of money for a pitcher.

second choice is to get aaron rowand, who i think would thrive in this lineup,

and third, i really like willy taveras, and he uses his speed real well. i think hed be a fun guy to have on this team.

what do you guys think?

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

I think we have 71 million dollars invested in 6 players next season.

15 Million- Hampton

14 Million- Smoltz

13 Million- Hudson

12 Million(projected arbitration)- Teixiera

11 Million- C. Jones

6 Million- Renteria

That leaves next to no room to upgrade the team unless Liberty Media expands the payroll to 90 million. I know I know, trade Renteria for a starter. My question to everyone is who? Jon Garland? No thank you. Hits per inning are going up and he strikes out less people than Chuck or Tim Hudson. No thanks. Joe Blanton? Well you would probably have to add Brandon Jones to get him. No sir. A.J Burnett? Not a chance. The guy is always hurt and is overpayed. Dontrelle Willis? No way. Declining pitcher. He isn’t a good pitcher anymore. The numbers just aren’t there. Other than that, I am just not sure who will be available for a trade. We don’t have the young players to acquire C.C Sabathia or Johan Santana if they get placed on the block.

By Jester1996

August 28, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

DOB What is Bobby’s love affair with bad players. He sends Joey Devine back down instead of releasing one of his favorites Tyler Yates. Yates can’t buy an out when they need one. Don’t get me started on Orr, Woodward, and past players that were terrible.

By Lew

August 28, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

GeauxBraves-Ironic? Not really. What was amazing was the fact that three HOF pitchers were together on the same team for over ten years, leading to an historic run. This is something unique in all of ML history. It has never happened before-nor is it likely to happen again-even the Yankees with all of their resources have not had it happen. This fact skewed our perspective on the subject, that’s all. We keep expecting it to happen for us again, when it never has-ever-for any team.

By Thrillhouse44

August 28, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, you need to get Andruw to hook you up with a throwback pair of Jordans. The Jordan V’s are the best.

Do you think JS will focus on the rotation this upcoming off season the same way he tried to shore up the bullpen last year?

By Ron Roberts

August 28, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

I keep coming back to what if we’d shown some confidence in Paul Byrd? Don’t get me wrong; I don’t blame the Braves for being gun-shy towards him, after he spent so much of his time with us on the DL, but he’s, to me, the single-most important reason the Indians are where they are, followed by the step-up from Fausto.

So which of the ‘08 free agents-to-be starters do we go after, then?

HERE is the list.

Paul Byrd tops the list, for me; with some relative affordability (maybe we get a discount since he sincerely did feel badly about our getting the short-end of the stick while he was here), and his success in an American League with beefier lineups than the NL.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Let’s add the 20-30 runs that Andruw is short from his typical production, and the Braves may have won an extra two or three games. I don’t know if that’s a big difference. Guess it depends on if the Braves finish only a game or two back out of the Wild Card.

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

2008 Needs:

1) #3 Starter

2) Centerfielder

3) Closer(If you choose to project Soriano at closer, understand that you will need to add another arm in the pen)

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

DAP,

Taveras is okay. He has a career .336 OBP but it’s a rather empty one. His career SLG is .348, which is pretty bad even for a center fielder. It’s even worse when you take into account he’s played his home games in Colorado and Houston.

Taveras will be a fourth outfielder very soon.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Man, how this beach (Fort Lauderdale, aka Fort Liquordale) has changed since I lived throughout most of the 1990s in a couple of apartments on this same block where my hotel is. Just took a walk on the beach (forgot how hot the sand was, how you had to step in the ocean every once in a while to stay cool) and marveled at all the four-star hotel/residences going up, from Trump and St. Regis to W and Starwood’s Luxury Collection. Just amazing. Used to be one- and two-story kitschy mom-and-pop hotels built in the 1950s. I miss that….

Kieran, I haven’t hosted a show, but have had some discussions with a couple of folks, just preliminary stuff to get some idea of their interest and what it would pay. Would have to run it by the higher-ups, but can’t imagine they’d object, since it brings the paper a lot of pub, etc. It is something that would interest me, but frankly, as the beat guy and with all the hours the print stuff and blogging demands, it’d be tough. Would have to do it from the road a lot, long as I’m in this gig.

We’ll see. I think something on weekends, or once or twice during week, would work well. Waiting for the right offer.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Jester, you do understand about options, right? Tyler doesn’t have them, can’t be sent down without waivers, and he’d be claimed in a second.

Ron Roberts, Paul Byrd is interesting. Just don’t know if he’d come back a THIRD time, since he seemed a bit snakebitten in his last tour here. He’s done quite well for himself since leaving. Great dude, too. Sure would be nice to have about now, wouldn’t he?

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Touche Lew.

Geaux Braves!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 28, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Lew, I wanted to respond to your question on the previous blog. I see your point. It is more than valid. However, I think Willis is still a good pitcher and has shown as such the last month or so. Also, he is barely 25 years old. He has a long career ahead of him.

Now, whom do you think the Braves are really going to be able to acquire and only have to give up Renteria and Diaz? Its possible Bedard or Bonderman could be had for that package but unlikely. Are guys like Arroyo, Cain, Lowry, Garland, Silva, and Maholm (all of whom are the most realistic possibilities) really any better than Willis?

By ruppert

August 28, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Has anyone considered Moylan in the rotation next year? I think with some off season conditioning he could do it. He definitely has the stuff to do it. Just fire those 93-95 MPH sinkers in there all game like Kevin Brown used to. And he isn’t a jerk like K Brown either.

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

For lack of a better word, would it be “cool” if the Braves could bring back Maddux and Glavine. Oh, the glory days, MG&S.

Alas, although still effective at times, they are shells of their old selves. What crime and punishment age can be.

Geaux Braves!!

By Joe Don Barker

August 28, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Yo DOB, How can you place Steve Earle lyrics in one blog and follow it up with Michael Stipe’s jibberish? I have always tipped my hat to your musical taste (Billy Joe Shaver was solid) but it’s time to come clean about REM and Michael “I come from planet Michael Jackson” Stipe. This guy is terrible, and his band plays from the brain, not from the balls.

Otherwise, great blog - I’m beginning to detect some frustration, tell us how you really feel and stop with journalistic mind tricks!

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

For lack of a better word, would it be “cool” if the Braves could bring back Maddux and Glavine. Oh, the glory days, MG&S.

Alas, although still effective at times, they are shells of their old selves. What crime and punishment age can be. For a ballplayer that is.

Geaux Braves!!

By Dill Pickle

August 28, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

So ‘Druw can talk? Wonderful, and interesting. Now, if he would re-learn how to hit he would, once again, be my favorite Brave.

By beachcomber

August 28, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Oh add one more thing we were sadly lacking this year - two lefties for the pen.

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, taking the family down to the Dark Star next week. I thought you’d be jealous :)

Geaux Braves!!

By eric the elder

August 28, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, I think this was your very best blog all year. Super solid, my friend.

I don’t think Andruw’s comments were exactly breaking news, but I suppose the fact that he said it is. We bloggers, constant or occasional, have ben saying the same thing since April. All Andruw did was clarify the obvious.

May I suggest that you now go to Bobby and ask him what he thinks about Andruw’s comments? You might want to wear body armor.

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Robert (JITB)

Erik Bedard couldn’t be had for anything that we have on our roster. Not even Frenchy. He is the best left handed pitcher in baseball next to Johan Santana. Other teams have so much more to give than we do. Bonderman might be attainable, but only if Detroit is really starting to sour on him. He is a better bet than Bedard. A lot of teams have more to give than us though.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Lew This team does have good team speed, but I think that Bobby just doesn’t use it to his full advantage ( I always thought that when Furcal first came up that he was gonna steal 60+ bases on a perinnial basis, it never happened) . Willie Harris is fast but I just don’t think he has good fundamental baserunning skills(hasn’t he been caught like 12 or 13 times, his percentage rate is really low)…

As far as A. Jones being a rally killer…Just look at the end of Saturdays game in St Louis, I can’t even remember the last time A. Jones came through big in a gamebreaker situation…No Offense intended…But Borass…wants 20 million, Please! Borass is living fantasies, along with WhineBrenner…

By Colin

August 28, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Jon Garland in the NL wow…do you people understand the Nl would be alot easier for him to pitch in…he could a 12-16 game winner in our 3rd spot…unbelievable

By Lawton, Oklahoma ?

August 28, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Booger Bob’s Cook Team is quite famous among Lawton First Assembly attenders. You can always count on “great food” when Pastor Gary and his cook team fires up the grill.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

People that crunch the numbers find that ten runs spread out over the course of 162 games is worth about one win.

Andruw has created 65 runs this season compared to 113 in each of the past two seasons.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts

Out of that list, I list 1) Andruw 2) Mike Cameron 3) Tori Hunter

Cameron is tough in the clutch. Tori Hunter plays in the HrbekDome, so transitioning to real baseball may elicit a downward trend. Andruw was born and raised as a Brave and still has skills. I have to think this year is only and aberration, but I hope that aberration can save us some money. I prefer not to look at the business side first. Try to imagine Cal Ripken in a Yankee’s jersey. Doesn’t fit. Neither would Andruw.

DOB

I saw Chipper grabbing his right shoulder last hit after striking out. Is there an injury there? How bad?

By BravesDave

August 28, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, I just picked up the new Editors CD “An End Has a Start”. It is damn good. If you like Interpol, I think you would like them. They had a couple of great tunes on their debut album, including a song named “Munich” (you should download it).

It is frustrating that things were breaking the Braves way while they were losing to the Reds, but now when they pick up a win against the Marlins, the Padres and Philles pick up big wins the same night. It’s a shame. I was a Mets and DBacks fan last night. Neither came through.

Any chance of Diaz starting tonight, DOB?

By Doug

August 28, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

Our bench is a mess. Orr is hitting .240 and gets called up? Bring up Franco! Let Devine pitch, he cant do any worse than Yates.

By flbravesgirl

August 28, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Have fun, geauxbraves. If you’re staying at one of the Disney hotels, I recommend taking a break in the afternoon. That way you avoid the worst heat & when you go back to the parks for the evening all the people with whiny kids who missed their naps are dragging themselves out.

If you go in the Muppet 3D show, pay attention to the pre-show. I always envision that “stampede” scene when DOB says “New blog is up”.

By JD

August 28, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Dude, Jester, did you watch the game against Cincy last week when Yates got out a 0 out, 2nd and 3rd jam. He’s been good this year when he hasn’t been so overused because of poor starting that he turns into the Braves’ version of Scott Procter.

By Dylan w/o the dead

August 28, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Colin I sure hope mike cameron isnt andruws replacement he isnt the offensive threat andruw is and his defense isnt quite as good if we have to replace andruw in the offseason witha free agent I would like to see Tori Hunter better hitter then cameron and as good defensively if not better.As for the rotation I agree with a trade of edgar to improve the starting staff I have no idea who will be looking for a shortstop and has extra pitching available or whats out there but after seeing the free agent pitchers available its obvious trade is the best route to improve the ballclub unless we want to overpay carlos silva. Schuerholz will need to have a good offseason if we want to compete for the division next year but if anyone can do that its him.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

DOB

Does BC really think Willie Harris is a good leadoff man? Can’t steal, can’t bunt, upper cut swing with no power. I’d rather take our chances with Diaz against right hander. KJ has a good eye, hits LHP and has some speed. Seems like a no-brainer. Makes me think BC, who I like, is buying into stereotypes.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Mike Cameron, No way! He’s streaky, and he strikes out just as much as A. Jones, without the power, plus he’s been in the league 12 years, and he has lost a bit defensively…

By Lew

August 28, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

RJIB-Let’s do some Dontrelle comparison, here. I will list the categories with 05, 06 and 07 totals-in that order. W-L 22-10, 12-12, 8-13. IP 236, 223, 200(avg.’ed out). Hits-213, 234, 201 (so far). Runs-79, 106, 105(again, so far). Strikeouts-170, 160, 116 (avg. to 136). Walks-55, 83, 66(again, so far). ERA-2.62, 3.87, 4.96. WHIP-1.1, 1.4. 1.6. Wild Pitches-2, 6, 5 (so far). Dude, this is a steadily decreasing, scary trend.

Now let’s do some comparison with this years top Braves’ starters-ERA’s only. Smoltz 3.01, Hudson 3.23, James 4.22 (and this with his injured numbers, which boosted his ERA a lot), Carlyle 5.00. Now Dontrelle’s ERA is 4.96, which would place him (barely) in the fourth slot. Unfortunately, the Marlins still act as if he were a number 1-2 starter. Do you really think a package of Diaz and Renteria (IF the marlins would go for it-let’s not forget Edgar’s $6 mil is one thing for us and still another for the Fish), is worth a number 4-5 starter? One who is in a serious, multi year decline? I don’t make that move. Do you?

By Ron Roberts

August 28, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave… I meant starting pitching.

By Tyler

August 28, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Is it just me, or was anyone else under the impression that Johan Santana was a FA after this year? Not sure we could attain him, but you never know.

The Giants are very rich in young pitching. Lowry, Lincecum, and Cain should be obvious targets for us. Plus Visquel is getting old, they could use Renteria for sure.

Mike Cameron could be an answer for CF, but so could Brandon Jones or Brent Lillbridge.

I’d say next year we have another starter (#3 or better), Mike Cameron in center, and not much else. We’ll bring up Ascanio and Acosta and Devine, and we’ll use Gonzalez as our closer.

By Colin

August 28, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Hunter really….so i guess 18 mill a year sounds good…well whatever…you know considering we have a real small payroll….

By Dill Pickle

August 28, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Where is “Grinch”? Practicing his presentation? Grooming his body hair? Polishing his horns? I want to “see” this giant among men. He is “real”, right?

By BB's

August 28, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

No one has been more frustrated with Andruw’s inability (unwillingness?) to go to rightfield with a pitch when needed than I have been. BUT! The man is simply the best defensive centerfielder in the game today. Don’t tell me he is overrated. He goes and gets the ball (back, up, left, right) wherever it is hit. I think he will hit again. Our best hope is that we get the hometown discount. He’s done it once. Then we trade Renteria for a starter. Without injuries the bullpen could be killer (Soriano, Gonzalez, Dotel, Mahay, Yates, Devine,Moylan, Villareal, Cormier, etc.). Maybe James would be a solid #5 guy. I think this year is out. But that would be some lineup with four good starters.

By Lew

August 28, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

I’m going to repeat something from the end of the old blog-a response to Ander’s incessant rant that the Braves should “GO” for the Wild Card and forget the division. Exactly how does one “GO” for the WC? Does that mean we have to intentionally lose every now and then? Y’all-It’s about time to realize that you win ballgames and it shakes out where it will-be it division or WC. If you don’t win, it’s a mere moot point. But go for the WC? Most absurd notion I’ve ever heard of. You strive to win games and let the chips fall where they may.

By Thrillhouse44

August 28, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

I’m more worried about this year than next. With 6 games left against the Mess and 6 games left against Philly, this could get very interesting!

I’ll be in DC for the game on 9/15 and I hope we’re only a game out of the playoffs at that point.

By BravesDave

August 28, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Mike Cameron stinks. Missed too many games over the last few seasons. Strikes out too much. Garbage OBP. 34 years old…how many years are you going to sign him for??? Career .252 hitter - worse than Andruw. The guy has never hit higher than .273 in a season. And his defense is highly overrated. Ask a Mets fan about his defense.

By Steve from OH

August 28, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

I’d be happy with Willie at center next year. In any case, Diaz needs to be the full time LF, and Willie is probably better suited to a 4th outfielder/Diaz defensive replacement role. I’d go Rowand over anybody right now, but we’d be better off investing our loot in pitching right now.

I’m also a bit uncomfortable with trading Edgar. Don’t get me wrong, Escobar is great, but he is a significant dropoff in power from Edgar (I know, power is the last tool to develop in a youngster. Did Yuney put up good power #’s in the minors?) It may be wise to keep Edgar and trade Yunel, preparing Lillibridge for the job after Ed’s gone. DOB

Is Chuck ready to come off the DL for his next start? (Has the decision been made or looked at yet, that is)

By knowitall

August 28, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, I wonder if it was really Bobby that kept Furcal from running. Harris, unfortunately seems to have the automatic green light. Plus Furcal hasn’t exactly been tearing up the base paths since he went to the Dodgers.

By Steve

August 28, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, I have to disagree with you. While our lack of starting pitching depth is a big hole, I think the #1 reason the Braves don’t currently qualify for post season has been the season-long poor strategic/tactical managing of Bobby Cox.

Each team the Braves are competing with also have large holes. There are no great teams in the National League this year. I’m not even sure there are any very good teams either. Marginally good at best. So it’s not that we’ve been facing superior competition.

One of the jobs of a manager is to nuance the team’s roster so as to minimize its weaknesses while maximize its strengths.

I think Bobby Cox’s has clearly done the opposite of that with his consistently bizarre strategic and tactical decision making. Cox has consistently maximized our weaknesses while failing to exploit our strengths.

By Dylan w/o the dead

August 28, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

tomahawkin do you really think the mets lead on us is because we dont steal enough bases? I mean scoring runs doesnt seem to be the problem especially since we added tex I really dont think if we had stolen as many bases as the mets we would be any better off the reason the mets have a lead on us is that their pitching staff has done the job all year when you have offenses like the braves and mets have if you can just get quality starts out of your starters you will be able to win alot of games.

By Renegator

August 28, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Any word on McCann’s day off? Bobby was going to give him one on Sunday but couldn’t and said he would get last night off. But for some reason he didn’t get last night off. I have to assume he is going to catch Smoltz tonight. Maybe tomorrow night? I’m sure he’s getting worn out with the heat wave and all…

By jester1996

August 28, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

DOB I do understand about waivers. Don’t you think they should still do what is best for the team. If you let players like Yates, Woodward and Orr go, you make room for your younger guys. Like the young group of relievers they just brought up. I know these young guys are unproven, however, Woodward, Orr and Yates are proven to be crap!

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber

Two lefties? You may want to tell Bobby that we do have 1 lefty in the pen this year, at least. The way he’s running Mahay out there in every blowout situation, it’s obvious he can’t see which arm he uses to hurl the ball to the plate.

By Jibo

August 28, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Hope AJ and his 212 BA. GONE! Mr. Hunter would be nice in cf.

By KC

August 28, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

CHUCK JAMES WILL DECIDE THE BRAVES SEASON.

I like what we’ve seen from Cormier over last few starts an awful lot. How bout ya’ll? I think one of those 3-4-5 slots has now been solidified. But we still need one more solid starter… and we’ve got him. Chuck James.

I don’t really get the lack of confidence many here display in Chuck James. Now be clear, I’m not talking about him as an ace. But as your 3 or 4 starter… he’s very solid. He didn’t look good in his last 3 or 4 starts before going on the DL, and he looked SO bad in his most recent outing, that I was wondering about him myself. But we know now that his shoulder was affecting him.

Before the shoulder inflammation popped up (at the end of July), James had just reeled off a 5 start stretch (June 29 - July 25) in which he averaged better than 6 innings per start and posted a 1.47 ERA. And as of July 25th, he had a 3.55 ERA for the season, which gave the Braves 3 of the top 15 ERA’s in the NL.

The Braves (including James) seem to fully expect that this rest will be all that’s needed to take care of this shoulder issue. If they’re right… if James is feeling strong when he comes off the DL for his next start (which should be next week) and can pitch ANYTHING close to the way he was going before this shoulder issue… I think the Braves will win the Wild Card.

Yes, yes, I know… James is only a 5-6 inning pitcher, blah, blah. We’ve got the depth in our bullpen, particularly in a few days when the roster expands, to handle an extra inning or two every 5th day. I’d much rather have a guy go 5 or 6 innings and allow 1 or 2 runs, than a guy that goes 7 innings and gives up 4 runs.

Yeah, I’m still a little nervous about Carlyle. If Buddy gets roughed up again tomorrow, he’ll probably lose his job to JoJo, who looked good his last time out.

In the end, with a deep bullpen and a great offense… 4 guys that can go out there and give you a great chance to win should be plenty for the Braves. It all hinges on whether we can get the July version of Chuck James back for the final month of the season.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Efrim closer is already within, you have soriano, dotel, acosta, yates…….why go find another one?

Starter is a must since maybe john will be less effective next year, never know.

CF…… well AJ was a good player till last year, i have never liked this guy, not even when he had big numbers. He does not has an idea of the strike zone nor plate discipline. Tex and Chipper are the evidence that you can be a slugger without fanning 100 times a year. But i have to think he is really injuried, no reason to think he will put the worst number of his young career after 10 years in the bigs. But braves need to be honest with themselves, if this guy performance has nothing to do with injuries, he must go. I dont think $$$$ will be an issue here, he loves atlanta and cox, if he goes its not because of boras, i will be because of his performance this year, braves have showed they are taking no prisoners.

By Lew

August 28, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Tyler-Don’t count on Gonzo as our closer next year. He won’t even be back from the surgery til halfway through the season and even then we have no idea of his effectiveness. Remember all of those 1 1/2 year discussions we had last winter, in regards to Hampton’s (aborted) return?

By dadgum

August 28, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

One thing, and I mentioned this many blog moons ago, in regards to the Andruw tanking(relative) this year. To the comments above, many many athletes are driven by egos we fans can’t fathom. Their ego will never reveal the true reasons for their performance. Asking Andruw why he has had such a bad year will never reveal the true reason regardless of what he says. I contend the pressure of the pending free agent market has led to his poor numbers this year. The mind controls the physical every time. Frankly Andruw may not know it is occuring. He is a great talent but his value to Atlanta( in relation to his contract) has gone down. My guess with other teams as well. Andruw may welcome this as a way to stay with the Braves(Boras would not). Regardless there is no irony in the fact that Andruw’s numbers have faltered in his free agent year.

In the same breath I would venture to say Andruw would have a banner year in ‘08.

Rock on …..remembering Carl Wilson

By Ed

August 28, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Hey ask Andruw why he’s been so selfish this year about having quality at bats. If he would go to the opposite field instead of trying to pull everthing his baating average would be at least 50 points higher. This would make our pitching staff look a lot better. Ask him why he hasn’t driven in runs in key situations this year. Stop being his buddy and call him out. He deserves just as much criticism as any pithcher we have. His job is to drive in runs when the game is on the line. How’s he been doing. I’m sure the Braves would take a 10 to 9 win rather than a 9 to 8 loss. Yes the pitching isn’t good but good hitters step up when they are called upon more times than not. There are two schools of thought here. Who’s going to take a chance on Andruw who’s range is diminishing in the field and isn’t hitting his weight. The Braves may be his only option.

By bill

August 28, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

This is my projected lineup for’08.

CF Lillibridge 2nd Johnson 3rd C. Jones 1B Teixeira C McCann RF Francouer LF B. Jones SS Escobar SP’s Smoltz,Hudson,Garland or Bonderman, Hampton and Reyes

The pen will be good with a mix of vets and young power arms.

By StingerSplash

August 28, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Unless Byrd’s a free agent, I don’t see the Indians trading him away since he’s a veteran presence and his stuff is a nice complement to the blazing stuff Sabathia/Carmona throw. But maybe Westbrook or Cliff Lee (if he can get straightened out) could be pried loose.

By jester1996

August 28, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

JD. Yates is 2-3 with 4.98 ERA. So he got out of one jam. How many jams did he put them in. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while. The man has pitched in 60 plus games. He is bound to have a good one.

By Daybed Wagmoe

August 28, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

great lyrics today! can’t wait for their new one to come out soon.

By rammerjammer

August 28, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I appreciate your statistical acumen, but Andruw fell far short of expectations by any measurement.

He deserves any and all credit for the Braves’ success through the years, but he came up short this season and shares in the blame.

There’s always September, however, and we can hope.

By Sonny

August 28, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Two things will keep the Braves out of the playoffs:

1. Every starting pitcher not named Smoltz and Hudson.

2. ANDRUW JONES epic freaking slump.

The boy has got some stones to talk ownership spending money, when he should give half his salary back for this years job “performance.”

By DAP

August 28, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

mike cameron in centerfield? no no no….HECK no. if we get a free agent CF, it needs to be aaron rowand, hands down.

By J.D. Phillips

August 28, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Mike Cameron stinks. Missed too many games over the last few seasons. Strikes out too much. Garbage OBP. 34 years old…how many years are you going to sign him for???

Sounds about like the right price range for Braves ownership. We will be begging for A.J. to come back if this clown signs with Atlanta.

By Dick

August 28, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Three four adn five starters make it thru line up one time. Hey solution, let them pitch each night, three starter, 1-3 inning, #4 started, 4/5/6, and #5 started 7/8/9.

By Christopher Smith

August 28, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

I have never been able to understand the adulation that has been foisted on Andruw Jones year after year here in Atlanta, when really he has never consistently delivered on his promise. And man that promise has become more and more expensive with every year. To think that he earns as much as a real hitter like Chipper just boggles my mind. Granted, he’s an awesome defensive player, but that’s not really why we pay him so much, is it? The good news is that he’s gone after this season, which will free up some serious money for another serious starting pitcher.

By Dick

August 28, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Chuck James will never make it in MLB unless he learns to follow thru on this pitch. You can’t pitch with your back as straight as a board.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

* Dylan* I meant that not being able to steal bases in one run games has really hurt us this year…when you look at our record in one run games, usually your having to rely on a clutch performance against another teams closer, speed makes a big difference in those situations (especially hurtful when the blowpen allows games to end up in that format…)

By TN Jeff

August 28, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Previously asked when last time Braves won when scoring 4 runs or fewer - answer July 23rd.

Next question which I don’t have the answer - When was the last time the Braves won when coming from behind in the 8th inning or later?

The Braves have great hitting & obviously the pitching is the problem - but there is no clutch hitting late, even & maybe expecially from Tex. Remember him striking more often than not in 9th inning clutch situations.

No playoffs this year.

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks flbravesgirl. Thanks for the great advice also, I hadn’t thought about that.

If you go in the Muppet 3D show, pay attention to the pre-show. I always envision that “stampede” scene when DOB says “New blog is up”

:)

Geaux Braves!!

By Lee in S. GA

August 28, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

If we acquire a pitcher such as Garland or Bonderman type it would be nice. Renteria for one of these caliber of pitchers will not be enough though. Renteria had a terrible A.L. season when he was with Boston. He seems to fit the N.L. more and his age is slowly starting to limit his range. It will take another player or top prospect also if Renteria ends up being trade bait for a top pitcher.

By Anders

August 28, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Lew You may recall that I incessantly ranted that if the Mets began to hit they would pull away even when all I heard was the Braves have better pitching- how has that worked out? I incessantly ranted that Dotel couldn’t be counted on - how did that work out? I incessantly ranted that Wickman was a weak closer - how did that work out? So excuse me if I don’t state the painfully obvious after the fact. I only mention the WC scenario to those that continually, and in my humble opinion, foolishly root for the Mets to lose to those you are now chasing for the final playoff spot. I understand that there is no cause and effect to rooting versus the actual outcome of the game, much the same as I don’t believe JS is reading your postings to determine how to set up next years teams - It’s just what fans do on blogs.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Look at the stats, Mets are 18-9 in one run games, and we’re 15-20, I think if we ran more, along with luck, we’d probably wouldn’t be 6 back…Watch Reyes and Wright and how much they run on other teams relievers…and it makes a big difference late in close games…Bobby C. On the other hand just likes to run only when he knows the catcher has a horrible time throwing out base-stealers…

By knowitall

August 28, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Jester Yates has pitched well for most of the year and your willing to just give him away because of a dead arm? Heck the entire bullpen has given up runs lately. Let’s get rid of them all.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Renegator, they’re off Thursday, so I wouldn’t be surprised if McCann keeps playing, especially the way he’s hitting lately: .297 with 11 homers, 46 RBIs and an .895 OPS in his past 50 games, and four homers with 14 RBIs on this trip.

Or, Cox could rest him Wednesday to give him two days’ off consecutively. But I kind of doubt it.

By greg sorrow

August 28, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I will keep beating this drum until somebody listens! The Braves front office is their own worst enemy! Trading Adam Wainwright and Jason Marquis for a broken down temporary right fielder was wrong from the beginning. Now they have repeated the same mistake by trading several pitchers and fantastic farm hands for a first baseman that may be here for a year and a half, along with Kyle Davies and others for very little in return. Where do you think Smoltz came from?

By Sir Stealth

August 28, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I’ve never been one to say that Andruw should be taken out of the lineup or that he should be traded, while many on here have. That being said, I think these comments are crap. Had Andruw had anything but a woefully mediocre season at the plate, the Braves would very likely not be on the outside looking in right now. Everyone thought he would have a monster year and he flopped. Even with Andruw sucking, the Braves still have had the team to pull this thing out down the stretch. Instead they’ve choked against lesser teams like the Reds. You can say what you want about the starting pitching, but the Braves have been in very good position to overcome the holes in the rotation and just haven’t. This team is good enough to make the playoffs and Andruw’s comments are just excuses for underperforming.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

dadgum,

I honestly think athletes are just like the rest of us, aside from their physical abilities. I believe athletes have egos just like all of us. Maybe they have more of an ego than the rest of us, but most of us would if we could do things the vast majority of the population couldn’t do—like hit or throw a 95-mph fastball. Therefore I can fathom the fact that athletes have egos; all of us do, especially about things we think we do better than others.

(As an aside, I don’t mind athletes being cocky or confident. I mind them thinking they are above the law or more moral or have something in their character that’s better than others.)

I believe that Andruw, and most players having down years, may not bring up any reasons because he doesn’t want to make excuses for his bad hitting.

Also, I think it’s very possible that Andruw has been hurt for most of the year.

I can’t speculate as to why he’s having an off year. I do think injury is the most likely explanation. He played virtually every game every year. Eventually that has to take it’s toll.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Knowitall Furcal’s numbers are down because he isn’t having a “Contract year”

All da offense we have isn’t gonna mean anything if we try to outslug teams that have those sinkerballer aces, ALA Brandon Webb, look what happened when we tried to play the longball game on him, who won…?

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Agree on Willie. But while part of me says Diaz should be playing more in left, another part says he’s been so successful precisely because of how he’s not been overexposed, his weaknesses masked, etc.

Willie isn’t much of a leadoff guy. Can’t but and can’t steal, but at least he doesn’t hit for any power….

That said, Willie’s had a helluva season and shocked a lot of us who thought he had no chance to help the team. He’s helped tremendously. He’s a flawed player, but worth keeping next year, even if as a fourth outfielder….

Joe Don, I like the journalist-mind tricks, thank you. And REM is one of my favorite all-time bands. Sorry, but you should be more open-minded, my friend. That’s a great freakin’ song. Lighten up.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Christopher Smith,

I think it’s the fact that you aren’t going to get the above-average production Andruw usually provides from many center fielders plus his great defense.

And I’ve argued many times that Andruw never showed he could be a Chipper-type hitter. If we expected that, we were expecting too much in the first place.

By TN Jeff

August 28, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Everyone loves Willie Harris but I’ve never seen a guy so fast get thrown out stealing so consistently. When will Bobby Cox & Terry Pendleton teach these guys how to bunt? Absurd to have to pitch hit a pitcher to bunt for Willie Harris!

By Lew

August 28, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Jester-Maybe you need a more comprehensive look at Yates career with the Braves. In 06, as KC has pointed out many times, Yates had ONE bad month. Dude, the same with this year-ONE bad month. Now I sincerely doubt that anyone here will argue (well, it IS the MIB blog and SOMEONE will argue) that he has been pretty radically overused-especially before the All Star break. Strangely enough (or not), it is July that is his worst month. In April he pitched in 13 games, giving up ER in 3. Same with May, 13 and 3. In June, he pitched in 11 games and surrendered ER in ONE game. In July, 14 appearances and ER in SEVEN games. Fatigue here? Do you think? In August 12 games and ER in 3 of them. Season totals-63 games and ER surrendered in 17 (In essence, he gives up ER in 26% of his games, or only one of every 4 games), 5 of which the Braves won (the Braves lose less than once in every 5 times Yates pitches). I think you should realize that Yates is one of our most effective relievers WHEN NOT CONSTANTLY OVERUSED. Maybe it’s time you gave the guy a break.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Yes, he deserves blame. I certainly agree. But one player doesn’t a team make.

And I’m just measuring how much blame we should probably give him. His lack of production probably costs the Braves a few wins, no doubt.

By Lew

August 28, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Yes, Anders, you and Coach are the Jeanne Dixons and the Edgar Cayces of our generation, no doubt. I’m so impressed with y’all’s prognosticative abilities. ACtuall floored with your talents. However, you have yet to explain exactly HOW you “GO” for the Wild Card. Just how do you Go for it? Seems to me that what you do, like I’ve said before, is win as many games as you possiby can and let the Chips fall where they fall. My prediction-You win and you have a chance- Lose and you don’t. Even Mets’ fans should be able to reason that one for themselves.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. While you’re down run up to Town Center at Boca Raton, Dude you talk about some bangin Broads that be up in there, woo hoo…

Ok gotta go to class, Other than the Broads and the College Parties, College Sucks!

By Train Wreck Bystander

August 28, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

I am all for spending a bazillion of Liberty Media’s dollars for a starter… but who is available, really?

What needs to happen this off-season is that Chuck James needs to leave the window crew and work on stamina and a third pitch.

By knowitall

August 28, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin What does a contract year have to do with Furcal? I think your missing my point. People always assumed that Furcal didn’t run because of Bobby but my point is that if he isn’t running with the Dodgers, maybe it wasn’t all on Bobby. Maybe for whatever reason Furcal doesn’t think he should try and still second every time he gets on base.

By Chop Chop

August 28, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

Matt Clement might be worth a look. Sign him to a make-good, incentive-laden deal and see what happens. Paul Byrd is also a good option, although the Indians may want to sign him to a new deal. He’s not the greatest pitcher in the world, but at least he doesn’t walk a lot of guys. Hell, I’d consider Livan Hernandez. At least he’s an innings-eater.

Ultimately, the Braves’ best hope for getting a good starter is by trade. It’s just a matter of how high Schuerholz is willing to shoot and whether he’s willing to give up Renteria or Escobar in the process.

By Dylan w/o the dead

August 28, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin your point is taken my point would be this retooling our team to run more would be a mistake we have a potent offense that doesnt need the stolen base to score plenty of runs if our pitching staff had pitched better we wouldnt be in so many one run games a better stat to look at would be how many of those one run games did we score 5 or more runs in I would bet its a pile of them those are games we should have one by more then one run the pitching staff didnt do the job.

By Goat Horns

August 28, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

It has been mentioned by several bloggers that Andruw’s bad year is just an abberation.

Take a look at some video! Andruw has had this “God Awful” swing going for the past year and 1/2 at least. I remember commenting several times in the middle of last year about how ugly a swing Andruw has developed.

Every time Andruw comes up I point out to my son to watch how he pulls off of the ball. I use Andruw as a “what not to do” example.

He has been doing this for at least a year and a half and does not seem to be willing to try and correct it.

The Braves should not want anything to do with Andruw next year. He will not be worth anywhere near the money Borras will command!

Whoever signs him will come to find that his contract will be a “white elephant” to their payroll.

Let him go. We can do better!

By Lee in S. GA

August 28, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Other than the Broads and the College Parties, College Sucks!

Been there - done that. I agree Tomahawkin.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I think Diaz has succeeded because his production relative to his cost.

I think teams passed him up because he doesn’t overwhelm with his power, he doesn’t draw a ton of walks, he doesn’t have impressive speed so no one noticed how good he is except maybe the Braves. He truly is a “Moneyball” player—a player who could be had on the cheap because his skills were undervalued.

I think if he played everyday, he’d be the same player—a guy that isn’t going to be one of the four or five most productive leftfielders in the league but is going to hit well enough to play leftfield every day. He’s Vlad Guerrero without the athleticism.

By Thrillhouse44

August 28, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

I’ve been frustrated all year with Andruw as well, but the Braves will really have to stack the rotation if he leaves. He definitely saves a few runs a week and they can’t afford to get rid of that without bolstering the rotation.

By Tomahawkin

August 28, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

Knowitall Furcal is a Free agent at the end of next year, his stolen base numbers will pick up again because a contract will be on the line, especially since leadoff hitters are at a premium these dayz…

Dylan Don’t get me wrong, I love our offense, but trying to play longball in the playoffs doesn’t exactly always work, Look at that Squad we had in 2003 that got upset by two aces (at the time) Wood and Prior

Fact is…That not being able to steal bases and relying on the longball along aith a crappy Blow-pen, and some bad luck have all escalated into our dismal 15-20 record in 1-run games as well as a crappy 4-9 record in extra innings…

By Anders

August 28, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Lew You’re hanging your hat on the “Go for it” aspect of my posting? Weak argument. I truly believe you can do better.

On the other hand being called a Met fan on this blog is progress.

By rammerjammer

August 28, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

It just frosted me that Andruw laid the blame trip on the front office when he should’ve at least glanced in the mirror and showed some “candor” about HIS season.

Betcha JS doesn’t take too kindly to the implication. Fact is, no team made a deal for an impact starting pitcher. And that ain’t exactly chopped liver playing 1b these days.

The more I think about it, the more agitated I’m getting.

Andruw is the one position player not meeting expectations, and he rips the front office for not getting more pitching!

Pathetic.

By Template for Brave's Blog Posts

August 28, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Optimist version

1. Compliment to DOB.

2. Expression of concern but hopefulness regarding playoff prospects.

3. Citation of obscure and possibly meaningless statistics to bolster case.

4. (optional) Response to one or more previous posts.

5. Denunciation of Robert and affirmation that Cox is a terrific manager.

6. Casual mention of band/film/tv show that DOB might like.

By Jeff R

August 28, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Will Liberty Media open the wallet? Rumors occasionally surface that the ownership will bump payroll for 2008 (to $100 million?). The money needs to go to landing at least one very capable starting pitcher, and, despite what DOB says, management needs to figure out the bullpen - who’s setting up, who’s closing and does the team have the horses in the pen to offer consistently good pitchnig through 162 games.

As to Texeria, management will certainly make a run at signing him (and jettisoning Andruw, unless he’s willing to resign cheap). The money would be better spent on pitching, but after giving up topline prospects (including Salty), no way management can back off and use the resources where they are most needed.

By Renegator

August 28, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB - I was just curious

By A-ville Ranger

August 28, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Good stuff DOB——I remember back in spring training most patrons on your site agreed Hampton was the key to the season.I also remember BC and JS saying simular things.I said then that I thought it was foolish to rely on something that seemed at best hopeful thinking.Galvine would have made this season entirely different from his brand of stoic leadership to the chase for 300 wins (that, I would have loved to watch).Most of all is the big tangible, many quality innings.It was just a poor decision not to sign him…..Lew —- anybody who would give up on Yates now should never trade horses.

By flange1

August 28, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Joe Don,

Don’t see the Michael Jackson thing with M. Stipe and REM. ABSOLUTELY no comparison. REM is a great band on vinyl and a better band live. If you haven’t seen them, you should.

Anders,

You can be right about everything you ever say on this blog, and WE STILL WILL NOT ROOT FOR THE METS. I think Lew has spelled this out, oh about 50 times in the last 2 weeks. Enjoy your posts etc, but as Lew also says, we need to concentrate on winning not the WC or the division. My opinion is the METS s#ck. even if they win the Series 5 time in a row….

By rammerjammer

August 28, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Template,

That was hilarious.

By bravesfan

August 28, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, Chipper came out of the game due to injury it looked like, when he swung and missed on strike three, do you know anything about how he is feeling today and if he will be able to play?

By Template for Brave's Blog Posts

August 28, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Pessimist Version

1. Denunciation of DOB as sycophant/hack/lackey.

2a. Defamatory statement concerning Andruw/Woodward/Bullpen/3-5 starters, or

2b. Excoriation of Cox/Scheurholz. (Try to include the word “booger”.

3. Insult of recent optimist post.

4. Gratuitous sarcastic comment.

By raindawg722

August 28, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

I have about three different pairs of Chuck T’s and I wish I had more. It’s like being able to drive a different color car every other day of the week.

By Anders

August 28, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Flange 1 Does concentrating have a different effect than rooting? because Lew also keeps reminding me that rooting has no effect on the outcome. Maybe I should have been concentrating rather than rooting for the previous 14 years before last year? Or maybe it’s just that you don’t have 3 HOF pitchers anymore? I don’t know you guys are the divisional winning experts I’ve only got one in the last 18 years or so.

By 22oz

August 28, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Special Request for all Bloggers

Boycott Diet Pepsi Max. Seeing that yawning commercial every single commercial break is driving me crazy, and frankly, making me tired. If nobody buys it, it will go away. Thank you for your time.

By Template for Brave's Blog Posts

August 28, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Dork Version

1. Long winded personal ancedote. (Be sure to remind everyone that you once edited the high school yearbook and so are a qualified journalist).

2. Reminiscence about how something was better years ago than it is now.

3. Plea to jimmy smith to come back to the blog (once again). Optional statement about how brilliant he is.

By atlbravesfan

August 28, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Yes Andruw is having an off year at the plate but I would stilltake him in center over 95% of the center fielders in baseball. As for Chipper and his hitting you’re right it’s more consistent when he’s in the game which isn’t very often of the past few years. How soon we forget that it was Andruw who carried the Braves a year or so ago when Chipper couldn’t be found and Andruw was robbed of the NL MVP.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 28, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, I was thinking the same thing about Andruw. Andruw is right about the pitching; however, what does he have to say about himself? What does he have to say about not making any adjustments until about two weeks ago? Lets face facts here. If Andruw is doing what he should be doing, the Braves would very likely have a few more wins despite the pitching woes. I’m sure I will hear some numbers that will say that increased production from Andruw wouldn’t have made a difference. I say yes it would have.

Fact is Andruw has killed so many rallies this year I have forgotten how many. Now, Cox does hold some culpability in this in that he continued to bat Andruw 4th even though he was hurting the offense.

No doubt that if Liberty Media had owned the team from the beginning of the season some things could be different, but that has nothing to do with Andruw and his production. Perhaps, Andruw should stop listening to Boras and begin listening to Pendleton. If the offense can stay hot and Andruw can catch fire, the Braves won’t need the starting pitching to be as good to make the playoffs.

By ncscoots

August 28, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Template, the pessimist version, LOL:

1. Compliment (or slander, depending on mood) for DOB.

2. Expression of concern and total hopelessness regarding playoff prospects.

3. Citation of obscure and possibly meaningless statistics to bolster case. Used instead of actual analysis.

4. (optional) Response to one or more previous posts. Preferably using “your and idiot” as opening statement.

5. Denunciation of Bobby Cox and affirmation that the poster himself would make a MUCH better MLB manager

6. Casual mention of band/film/tv show that DOB might like (or total diss of his musical tastes, depending on mood)

By Chop Chop

August 28, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

22oz,

I don’t know about the rest of my fellow denizens, but the worst part of that Diet Pepsi Max isn’t the yawning. It’s when all the yawning stops and the guy gulps from the can. That noise makes me want to break stuff.

By Charlie Bwater

August 28, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brian my ole daddy used to say that when you live in a glass house, don’t throw stones or something to that effect. Don’t you think AJ could have done a little better with a bat? Also I’ve asked several times what the pitching coach does with the development of the young pitchers and reclamation projects and it seems no one wants to comment. Ain’t he supposed to be doing something?

By ncscoots

August 28, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Aw, crap, Template beat me to the punch…should have realized he was gonna follow up :-). My bad, just didn’t see it in time.

By Lew

August 28, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Anders-Dude, I’m not hanging any arguement on anything. You’re welcome to your Wild Card delusions, position- whatever. I thought I made myself clear. I don’t really care what your position is. WE need to win. Period. End of argument. Even suggesting we Go for the WC seems to me to be wishful thinking by Mets fans, hoping all competition ignores the Mets. Whatever. You’re welcome to whatever hopes, wishes and dreams that float your boat. The fact is this-If the Braves start and keep winning, y’all will go down-if nothing else, by virtue of the fact that we consistently kick your butts. If we lose, then you won’t go down (unless y’all lose it completely). Real simple. If I were you, I would be much more concerned with why the Mets are not playing all that well and whether or not Maine is tired, than trying to convince Braves’ fans to hang it up.

By Stu

August 28, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Why pay big dollars for Mike Cameron? Consider this: his OPS is .774 (to me, OPS is about the best measure of a good hitter, though I’m not suggesting it’s “definitive.”).

Why not go with Escobar (OPS .785) or Lillibridge, if he’s ready (and he’d bring a lot of speed and the ability to steal bases) at SECOND BASE, Renteria (OPS .879) at SS, and KELLY JOHNSON (OPS .885) in CENTER FIELD? Kelly’s done a fine job at 2B, but to me, he’s an Aaron Rowand clone waiting to happen in Center Field.

Let Diaz and Brandon Jones fight for LF, with the loser our backup corner OF; and Lillibridge/Escobar and Willie Harris backing up CF, 2b, SS; and (hopefully) Aybar backing up 3rd.

Lineup: Lillibridge or Escobar 2B Renteria SS Chipper 3B Tex 1B McCann C Francouer RF K Johnson CF Diaz or B Jones LF

You maintain the youth movement (bringing B Jones and Lillibridge into the mix); when Renteria does leave, after next year or ‘09, slide one of the 2B over to short; and I just don’t know how you pitch to that lineup.

The “Cameron” money, if it actually exists, is spent on pitching.

By flange1

August 28, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Anders,

I believe that the Braves will not win the division. But I still root for them to win every game. Having played alot of baseball in my day, the players have to concentrate on winning not the WC or the division.

But still, we won’t root for the Mets to win anything, even if it means we move up the WC stanadings.

Sorry!

By Lew

August 28, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Template-You forgot point 7. A*******e$ complaining about what others post and offering nothing substantive instead.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

I am so surprised that everyone wants to ream AJ, when just 2 years ago, he was runner up for the MVP and carried this team to the playoffs. Maybe he is putting too much pressure on himself for his next contract. I look at the entire picture. Not only has he saved our pitchers over and over again, and that is signifigant, but his production numbers are still high despite his slump. If they can agree to reasonable terms, Liberty should sign him. I think when the money pressure is off, he will be fine. I, for one, appreciate AJ and hope he finds his way back to ATL. But I will not be reduced to an idiot crybaby because he didn’t do as well as expected. Grow up.

DOB

The injury to Chipper’s shoulder. What’s up? He grabbed it and looked to be in pain last night after swinging and missing.

By NCBravesFan

August 28, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

I hate that Diet Pepsi commercial! What’s worse though is the AT&T ballplayer spotlights.

I have no interest in the lifestyles of millionaires with exceptional hand-eye coordination (and a lion-head fireplace).

By ncscoots

August 28, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

To heck with considering the offseason possibilities. The Braves still have a chance to put paid to every they’re-done comment made on the blog since May, with the games left against the Mets and Phillies. A Herculean task, no debate; guess it might depend on how sick they are of hearing “can’t”, “won’t”, and “don’t”. But the team still has a chance to be heroic at the end, if heroism be in them.

‘Course, some pitching might help, too, LOL.

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

DOB: Great post man. Insightful and entertaining.

Team’s been stinking up the joint lately but it’s still possible to make it. Only 4 games out and 30 to go. Or 6 games out with 6 left against the Mets.

Template for Brave’s Blog Posts: Thanks, this has helped tremendously!

Robert: 14 in a row… Greatest Manager Ever!

Did anyone else see the Wilco tour? DOB? Richard Swift is opening for them. It’s going to be a great show.

By GermanBravesFan

August 28, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

DOB: I think besides another starting pitcher, the Braves need one other thing: ROBERT as the manager. If he’s as good as he says, the Braves would have one several World Series titles and would be on top of the NL East this year… ;-)

By Lew

August 28, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Anders-Would you prefer Trolls? You and others seemingly objected to me stating that I hated the Mets and by association, their fans. How about if I amend that to read I don’t care at all about the Mets and their fans. Y’all Mets’ fans are nothing but a bunch of buzzing mosquitoes to my way of thinking. Now you, personally, may be a more pleasant mosquito than NoBrainZone, but you still drone on and on and fly around buzzing and making a nuisance of yourself trying the whole while to convince us of our wretchedness and that we have no hope. Just why do you feel you have to convince us of anything? Will it do anything other than to assuage your own insatiable need to give us a hard time? If the Mets win, then why should you care about the Braves? Dude-why do you continue to post? Because of the baseball talk? In case you haven’t noticed, you said it all in two sentences. You like the Mets. We don’t. Apparently this bothers you.

By True Braves Fan

August 28, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

DOB; DON’ LET DRU DISH YOUR DRESS I remember back in the 1940’s when I got my first pair of NEW CHUCK TAYLOR CONVERSE ALL STAR WHITE BASKETBALL SHOES. I was so excited, during WWII new basketball shoes were nowhere to be found…FROM NOW ON YOU ARE MY HERO FOR ATTIRE..

By Shawn B

August 28, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

DOB, anything been said about Liberty Media raising the payroll next season?

By chipdip

August 28, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Mike Hamptons salary has dragged this team down the last 2 years and robbed us of a rotation…he needs to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He won’t be worth a #$%@!!next year either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Amber

August 28, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

DOB’s:

Hampton? Theoretically, he’ll be back. They’d better not pin their hopes on that, though. Not again.

I hate to say it, but… okay. I told you so. (Not you or anyone specifically, DOB) I don’t know how many times this offseason I fretted and fussed over the inordinate confidence Braves brass was putting in Hampton’s full and complete return. I didn’t predict his spring training injury, but I knew that they shouldn’t have expected him to be a top starter this year.

If a Braves fan complains in Tennessee… does anyone hear it?

By Lew

August 28, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Anders-In case you didn’t notice, you’re 4:25 post was one of the most meaningless I’ve seen on this blog in over two years. Like I said to someone earlier. You win an Anti-Wurlitzer for that. Pretend I sent you a picture you didn’t like.

By Double Deuce

August 28, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

* Lew* Good observations on Yates. He has more appearances than any Braves pitcher and has definitely suffered from overuse, but there is a reason he gets the call so often. Until he was used 9 times in 13 games in late June and early July he was money. Has he struggled of late? You bet, but if he wasn’t in the pen early in the year and taken the ball every time they asked, then it would be Moylan and Soriano who would be out of gas. Not fair to bag on a guy who gives you everything he has and doesn’t complain.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 28, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Here is a question to ponder. Most people (myself included) have said that Francoeur should stay in right field but what if the Braves don’t really have a choice but to move him CF or it would be better overall for the team. Here is what I mean. Not many available centerfielders will be in the free agent market. Torri Hunter will be too expensive. Rowand or Cameron will be hot commodoties and I really don’t know if it would be wise to give a multi-year contract to a 35 year old CF such as Cameron. And, somebody like Corey Patterson would be a huge risk.

Trades are always possible but even those are limited. Granderson from the Tigers maybe. Ken Griffey would take some serious finagling. Chris Duffy from the Pirates would be another option but he isn’t much of one.

It may serve the Braves interest to acquire a rightfielder and move Frenchy to CF. The list of available or potential available rightfielders is way more extensive than that of centerfielders. Juan Rivera from the Angels would be a good fit. Jose Guillen from the Mariners although I’m not sure how Chipper would feel about that.

Or simply placing Brandon Jones in RF and continuing the platoon in LF.

By JD

August 28, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Couple of things: The whole bullpen, minus mahay, moylan and Gonzo (who got injured while ahead!) stinks and it’s b/c they are overworked. Cox must think they have rubber arms (thanks to the starters).

Yates is good for 5 games and then horrible for two. He’s pitched 63 games this year, only allowed runs in 17 of them. That’s not bad, but he usually lets the flood gates open when it happens and his ERA per month is as follows: A:3.97 M:4.05 Jn:0.84, July: 12.6, Agst: 4.22. Funny how June is his best month and Atl’s worst.

Harris- I like him, but he’s not the answer for leadoff or CF or outfield. He dove for that ball against AZ and was no where near it. He doesn’t have good angles on the ball, his arm (accuracy) is awful, he can’t bunt, he gets caught stealing 1/2 the time and he can’t hit lefties. He’s really slumping now and if you take that 6/6 game out of there, he’s in a lot of trouble. Diaz is the man, although when he played a lot early in the season, his avg went to like .220.

Say what you want about AJ, but he’s leads the team in HR’s and RBI’s, again. He might get a lot of opportunities with runners on base (RBI’s), but he gets less at-bats now than everyone else and still has hit more HR’s. His defense is still stellar and there’s a reason Maddux said his ERA would have been 1-run higher in his career were it not for AJ.

Cox has always won with solid players up the middle (C, SS, 2b & CF).

I think Cormier will help us in the long run. He’s pitched well his last three starts and gone 7+ twice. Don’t forget, James is nursing a sore arm, but if he comes back healthy, we’re good to go.

I still think we catch the Mets. Glavine won’t fair well tonight and we’ll get to see him on Sunday.

Of course, this is game “2” of the three game series. We haven’t faird to well in these of late.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

sHAUN finally i agree with you, matt diaz must be signed by the braves for some 4 years now that he is not so expensive…… do it…… he knows baseball, he makes batting look as easy as pete rose did.

By flange1

August 28, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Just to continue this line, I do not understand Mets fans that come to this blog, suggest they love baseball and want to talk baseball with other baseball fans, then tell us they they are always right, that the Mets are the best team in the world and that we should be happy with second.

Sorry, that dog don’t hunt…..

By King Nick Saban

August 28, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

spot on Lew at 4:36. i don’t understand this anders dude telling us what we need to ‘pull’ for as if what we ‘hope’ happens will impact the play of the Braves, Phillies, Padres, or muts…

getta life, dude

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

There is something i dont like about smoltz pitching tonight…… The plan must be to put the marlins away by the 5th, so the braves will start pressing as they know smoltz will only be able to make some 70-80 pitches (5 IP if things dont go so well or6 at the most if everything goes as planned). I just hope they can score some 5 runs by the time the 6th inning arrives.

By AJC Security

August 28, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

We have uncovered that the individual who posts under the name Robert is actually registered to a T. Larussa. We discovered that Mr. LaRussa was posting numerous hours per day, even during games. An investigator confirmed that Mr. LaRussa is an addicted blogger and that the excess blogging has caused him to make major mistakes while performing his duties. Just recently, he turned in lineups where the pitcher was batting 8th. Cardinals management has struggled with this issue. In addition to slandering Atlanta Manager Bobby Cox, he has also slandered other managers like Joe Torre, Mike Scioscia, and Jim Leyland, among others. He has commonly referred to LaRussa as a genius of epic porportions.

By GK

August 28, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

chipdip you should change your moniker to dip$hit, cause that is about what your posts are worth.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 28, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

What does everyone think about Johnny Damon? Would he be a good fit? If the Braves could get the Yanks to eat about $6 mil of each of the last two years of Damon’s remaining contract, which would mean the Braves would be paying him about $7 mil, would that be a good move? Would Damon at $7 mil be a better option than a Rowand or Cameron at $13 or $14 mil?

By JDG123

August 28, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Great analysis by Andruw. I think we all agree. Unfortunately the way we get a decent strating pitcher (or two) is by first letting Andruw walk away (maybe take the other Jones with him). When you tie up 47% of your payroll in just three players (Andruw, Chipper, and Hampton) there is not much left to spend. When all 3 of those cash cows start breaking down with injuries and sub par seasons, you don’t make the playoffs.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

The only thing we need to hear about the stinkin Mets is how bad we kicked their a*. Mets freaks, go back to Queens.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Regular lineup, including McCann. Don’t look for him to have a day off anytime soon (someone asked about it earlier, is why I bring it up).

No word yet on whether Chuck’s going to be ready next week.

Chipper’s fine and playing tonight.

By Ralph

August 28, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to clean house, starting with Cox, Pendleton, Woodward, Thorman, and Hampton, are the major ones. Cox is still coaching the same old way, looking for the homers, and leave to many men on base. They don’t play the basic 1,2,3, baseball, I don’t know why they even go to spring training. For the past few years, even when the braves made it to the play-off, in the final monuments they frost. This year the way the Braves play and over-all attitude along with Bobby indecisions will cost the Braves another winning season. The new management will be no better than the old, and the fall of the Atlanta Braves is inevitable. The Braves will be a third rate team, until they are sold to some organization in Las Vegas, or somewhere out west, where they be better of. It’s not that the Atlanta fans are not good fans, its just that the Braves are a tired team, with the same old thing. I don’t think the team know whether they’ll coming or going half of the time. Most of the players look like they are stuffing from an hangover. I don’t see where Pendleton has help the players one bit. Bobby Cox has being a great manager and has a lot to offered, but not anymore as a manager.

By flange1

August 28, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

In looking around the rumor world, it seems the Phillies have kicked the tires of Bob Wickman. Do you think there is a chance the Braves can trade him or do you think he will be released?

I was wondering about B Tomko. He was just DFA by LA, wonder if another our garbage for your garbage would work.

Am I correct that if other teams wait for Wicky to be released, it will be after Sept 1 and Wicky will NOT be eligible for the post season?

Is that correct?

Thanks

By Kendell

August 28, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

Andruw is strugging but he is not the reason the Braves are inconsistent. The real Braves fans need to wake up and notice its pitching.. AJ 25 is still da best at his position. And if people have noticed Willie Harris is a great player but he is not a everyday player!!!!

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

Amber, not unless it’s TennesseePaul, in which case we hear it.

(just kidding. we hear you)

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Overlord: [Diaz] makes batting look as easy as pete rose did
ugh. Not sure I agree with that. He does a fine job getting results. I love this guy and hope they do keep him around. He gets it done and gets it done frequently. That’s all that matters to me. But I haven’t seen him make anything look “easy”.

By Chief Bromden

August 28, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Nurse Ratchet sent me here to bring back the guy with the lobotomy. I can’t find “Paladin” but “Anders” will do. Now, come here, Anders, this pillow is just to rest your head on in the car. Be a good boy, so Chief don’t have to hurt you.

By rammerjammer

August 28, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Ralph, you forgot to rip DOB. Didn’t you read the template???

It’s almost September, people. Let’s get with it. Every blog matters.

By Braveheart

August 28, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Great, great blog today DOB. Needs to be saved for posterity ‘cause I imagine the Mellon Collie & Infinite Sadness crew will prefer to keep Smashing Pumpkins, beat reporters, the Braves, managers, GMs, players, and denizens and ignore the corporate ownership and the nature of a beat reporter’s job.

Template, that was funny. Scoots, even funnier. Lew, yours the funniest. Future amendments to the RROE will have to incorporate this series of postings. Wish I had been the writer of those posts. Funny as hell and true.

Lew, great points about Yates today.

Shaun, understand your points about Diaz being a Moneyball player. But did it really have anything to do with Moneyball? Weren’t Pendleton and Bream and Leibrandt Moneyball guys in 1991 before Moneyball was so popular? What about all of the rags to riches closers during the run? And all the minor leaguers over the years and the send off of guys as they entered free agent years? But of course Moneyball ain’t really a new philosophy. Just a new labeling of what smart teams have been doing for years: finding bang for the buck.

Don’t think Frenchy is a CF. Frenchy is more of a run stopping safety than he is a cover corner. He is an athletic freak but he plays the outfield more like Roy Williams, Greg Blue, and Thomas Davis. He attacks like a safety. The centerfielder needs to be more graceful like Andruw or a cornerback. Frenchy is Atwater and not Deion.

Alright, talk to you fellas later.

MAGIC NUMBER FOR EAST IS 38!

MAGIC NUMBER FOR POSTSEASON is 36!

Go Braves!

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, oh does that commercial make my skin crawl. Every noise, every yawn on it. Awful.

By Braves Fan 79

August 28, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

This team will not be complete without woodcrap being dumped! What purpose does he serve? We should go with the leland approach and go with young talented players over crappy veterans! Please dont tell me woodcrap makes the playof roster over prado, or prettymuch anyone else, i still say we need that speedster off the bench to pinchrun if we have someone on 2nd with 2 outs and the game on the line.
A track star who knows NOTHING about baseball would be worth more than chris worthless.

By D-Cider

August 28, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Braves can spend the $$$ they have available by letting A. Jones take a walk (or more appropiate a ground out to the SS or a K) to a another team. Surely, the Braves can find a CF that hits .220 for a lot less money.

By dobearsbare

August 28, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

If this was covered in the first 163 posts, sorry. I’m not wading through all of them.

Anyway, IIRC, the hangup on making an offer to Glavine was making a deal for Marcus Giles, was it not? The idea was to dump Giles’ salary, and see if they could get Scott Linebrink in exchange. The Linebrink deal fell through, and they released Giles anyway. Schuerholz knew he wasn’t going to be writing checks to Giles one way or another. So why didn’t the club make an offer to Glavine? The thinking was Hampton would be healthy? Hindsight I know, but if Glavine were here, the Braves likely would be in first place.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 28, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Times like this is when I really miss Tom Glavine, David Justice, and Ron Gant. I know these Braves don’t have any “players only” meetings but I can remember back in the early and mid 90s when those three would call meetings whenever it was necessary. I remember back in 1992 the Braves were struggling and Glavine and Justice called the meeting. The team took off and never looked back.

By Jennie Craig

August 28, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

“Braveheart” claims he is at a “convention”. Don’t believe him! He is at our Phat Pfarm trying to lose 40 lbs so he will be “sleek” for his Wurlitzer presentation. We have our work cut out for us! He eats with his hands, too. That makes it even more difficult.

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

Pretty Cool article here by Tom Verducci. Goes into Run Differential and Greg Maddux. Why RD is not holding up this year or recently and why Maddux is the greatest pitcher alive.

By Colin

August 28, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

LETS GO BRAVOS…1 down 9 to go…10 in a row

By Chop Chop

August 28, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, gotta give props(?) to 22oz for bring up that commercial. Sadly, the constant yawning and god-awful gulping isn’t really the worst thing about the commercial. I’m a Coke guy, dammit. Why the hell is Pepsi being allowed to promote an Atlanta team? Step it up, Coke. Save us from this abomination. With God as my witness, if the big Coke bottle at the Ted ever switches to Pepsi, I’m finding a new team. I can’t abide that.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

I think Andruw blamed ownership more than anyone. And I’m not so sure Andruw wouldn’t wonder where the Braves would be if he was better. And I’m not sure these are mutually exclusive.

Overlord,

I’m not sure how long the Braves should try to keep Diaz. He’s 29 and he can’t play like he is forever. But I’m sure Schuerholz can figure it out and do a good job of it.

Braveheart,

Yeah, Moneyball was basically a new name for a very old concept. But isn’t that the way things work? Someone writes a book that brings to light a concept that has been around for a while and makes up a name for it? And not many GMs are as good at “Moneyball” as John Schuerholz.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

Dobearsbare, the “hangup” wasn’t Giles. They needed to move big money in order to fit Glavine into the budget. They never intended to bring Giles back. That money was going elsewhere — to help fortify the ‘pen, etc.

The way the Braves operate, or operated then, at least, was that they wouldn’t commit to an offer for Glavine — probably one year with an option — until they had moved Hudson’s contract, is how it was explained to me.

By Chop Chop

August 28, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

Or “for bringing up that commercial”, but I was being sarcastic about “props”. Hey, at least this is another post to add to the total, right?

Bah.

By Turnin2

August 28, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

OMG I hate that dadburn yawning commercial

I mute it or flip channels every time it’s been on…would never ever ever try the product (btw - there is NO place at pepsico to make a ‘comment’ about how freakin’ annoying it is and to beg them to PLEASE STOP!!!!!!!!!

By Reality

August 28, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Good ridence …. you have never been worth a damn and you will never be worth a damn.

By mr baseball

August 28, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

I know we’re all getting tired of posting about this particular topic, but as long as Chance the Manager continues to sit Diaz against RH pitchers and plays a seriously slumping Harris — hitting him leadoff to boot — I guess we’ll continue to flog this dead horse.

There is no rational thought behind his decision to keep penciling Harris in the lineup in the leadoff spot against RH pitchers. None. Cox is either criminally stubborn or arguably brain-damaged. Harris hasn’t hit anything in weeks. Diaz rakes every time he plays, whether there’s a righty or lefty on the mound. We have 2 potential leadoff hitters who are both better fits in that spot than Harris, who should be batting 8th if he’s going to start.

Why would any manager with functioning brain cells want to give Harris 1 more at bat per game that Escobar, who is stuck in the 8 hole. Maybe Cox wants to protect Andruw. Who knows?

If Cox really and truly believes that Harris deserves to be in the lineup instead of Diaz against RH pitchers, I think we have to start questioning his fitness to manage this team. He’s never been adept at lineups/game strategy/handling the bullpen, but this is getting ridiculous.

Senility?

Politically incorrect question: Did Smoltz want to move up in the rotation so he could (a) pitch against Glavine Sunday and (b) miss the Phillies next week? Could also wonder if he’s ducking Dontrelle, but considering how Willis has pitched lately, we’ll give him a pass there.

By Drummerdad

August 28, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

Personally I think we’re paying for Time-Warner’s “Leadership” and will be for for another year or two provided that Liberty allows management to flex some financial muscle.
The JD Drew trade still sticks in my craw as possibly the worst in Braves’ history. Maybe worse than the Len Barker deal. We traded the future for an absolute mercenary. If nothing else, this season has been fun to watch just to see a reasonably healthy Chipper Jones do his thing on the field. I had forgotten just how gifted the guy is. Somebody like Hoss only comes around once in a while and this season has helped me to savor it while in progress.

Seems like they need at least 2 major pitching acquisitions in the off season and then there’s the question of center field. I remember when the owners were bust for collusion near the beginning of the free agency era. I think there needs to be some collusion concerning dealing with Scott Boras.

By Drummerdad

August 28, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

I’ve got a question. What happened to pitchers who could throw a complete game or at least get close?

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

Tisk, tisk…Matt Diaz, will you never learn? 4 for 6, what were you thinking? Obviously, that level of performance will immediately put you on the bench until such time that your manager forgets your recent success, and, mistaking you for a scrub .200 hitting bench player, inserts you into the lineup.

This stuff almost makes Cox’s decisions to use Mahay almost exclusively in blowout situations look rational…(almost)

By Ron

August 28, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

I heard this morning that Buster Olney thought that MAYBE the A’s MIGHT trade Haren in the offseason!!!Well if they do then Congrats JS, you better damn well get Tex signed!!! Because with that SAME package we could have gotten Haren!!! Even if it took more to get Haren then fine!!! I hope the A’s keep Haren, because If they end up trading him, I believe we MATCHED up as good as any team did!!! I would be dissapointed!!!

By Colin

August 28, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Is this Rick Vandenhurk out there or Cy Young?

By JJMB

August 28, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

good thing Diaz has a chance to sit and cool off. good thinking Bobby. wouldn’t want to play a .350 hitter!

By Del

August 28, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

Another head scratcher by our esteemed mgr. Harris in, Diaz out. Are these games important or not? If they are, then put your best team on the field every single day!!! Period !!!

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

VandenHurk to the Braves hitters: Good Morning Good Afternoon Good Night

All opposing pitchers who can throw at least 88 mph or so, here’s how you pitch Willie Harris — fastballs letter high all day. With that uppercut, and lack of power, that guarantees pop ups and harmless fly balls.

By Steve

August 28, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

After last night, I actually expected that Cox would finally come to his senses and have Diaz in the lineup tonight and Willie Harris on the bench out of the lead-off spot where he’s been flat out horrible now for a pro-longed period of time. Can Cox’s managerial decisions get any dumber? I don’t think so.

A while back, I posted how there were no checks and balances in place on the Braves to prevent the kind of stupid choices Cox makes from continually happening. It’s just beyond unbelievable at this point.

Even if Harris hits a home-run each at bat tonight, it was still incredibly dumb to have penciled him in the lineup tonight in the lead-off spot while leaving Diaz on the bench.

By Ron

August 28, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this

I am soooooo sick and tired of seeing Harris in there instead of Diaz!!! Diaz DESERVES to start Everyday!!! This is bullcrap!!! DOB dude can you tell us what the hell is going on in BC mind!!! I mean come on, MOST on this blog can manage better than BC has THIS year!!! (Why do I get the feeling that IF Robert is on here tonight that he will copy that last sentence and italice it and make a smartass comment about it!!! Well BC deserves Robert to give a smartass comment on this one)!!! :)

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Colin has a good point… I didnt think Peavy was throwing for the Fish at all…

By bubba

August 28, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

“Steve” As a member of *Ducks Unlimited might say: Why don’t you shut the duck up?

By Jt

August 28, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

Andruw’s candor is going to help him out of town. Management is going to agree with him that they have enough offense and need to go get a pitcher during the off season with what used to be his salary.

By JD

August 28, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else want to see a closeup shot of the blue dress behind home plate tonight in Miami? Go Braves! Start a winning streak!

By Colin

August 28, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

positive thoughts

positive thoughts…forget them WHAT THE…Smoltz don’t throw same pitch 8 times in one at bat…i could a hit that

By Ron

August 28, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

Can anyone picture the last game of the year, we are tied with the Padres for First in the Wildcard, and it is bases loaded 2 out and Woodward pinch hits in the 9th in the pitchers spot and Diaz IS on the bench just sitting there and Wondering why he is not in there? I know that we probably wont even be in position to be in First but just work with me here!!! Just play along!!! Who here thinks that would happen about Woodward? I know I do!!!

By Ron

August 28, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

Runner on 2nd with LESS than 2 outs!!! Are we gonna score? Probably not especially with Harris leading off!!! Great going BC!!! Make that 2 outs with a runner at 2nd!!! GREAT GOING BC!!!

By Colin

August 28, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

JD

Umm yea just noticed her after u said something….

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

Ron, it’s a platoon in left. It’s worked pretty well. That’s his thinking. Hey, just the messenger here.

For those planning ahead, tentative pitching plan is Hudson on Friday, then Chuck coming off DL to pitch Saturday, Smoltz on Sunday, Cormier on two extra days’ rest Monday, and Carlyle Tuesday.

By bubba

August 28, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this

“Ron” calm down. You are going to sh!t your pants.

By Colin

August 28, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

RON

Does BC want to make u put ur head through a wall because he does me…DIAZ not starting and well WILLIE is horrible…terrible…

By A-ville Ranger

August 28, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

I made a sarcastic post earlier about what a great idea it is to start a 40 year old with a bad shoulder on 3 days rest.I’m surprised more of the constant complainers don’t see it.Oh, I forgot, they’ll wait till it’s obvious and pretend they have a real clue.

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

I was thinking on my drive home there was NO WAY Cox lets Harris play, much less lead off the game. How do you leave a guy hitting .350 & over .450 against the Fish on the bench? Why do you we have to play handicapped? I’m just at a loss to come up with any reason that Cox could give for leaving Diaz on the bench.

By BG

August 28, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Is that Doug Eddings behind the plate? Haven’t the Braves had some run ins with him before? I can’t remember the details.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

Oppppsssss Guess this is looking bad……. but it was a good call by bobby anyway.

By Colin

August 28, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

THIS IS THE BEST BDAY EVER..NOT!!!!!!!!!!

By John Minnix

August 28, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

I do not find Andruw’s comments refreshing.

I thought John S and the Braves ownership did a better job than any club in baseball to improve the team before the trade deadline. We need another starter, but I’m sure that is something that JS tried to address and couldn’t.

Andruw needs to blame his inability to hit on a lot of the Braves struggles. We are 4 games out of the wild card. If Andruw was having his typical Andruw year in terms of average, HR, RBI and SB, the Braves would have 4 more wins easily.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

Well, the parade has started…….this game is lost if they dont hit homers cause that the only thing they are trying to do.

By Colin

August 28, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

Good Call BC throw a 40 some yrd old guy on 3 days with a bum shoulder…we lose..who cares BUCOS WON

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

hey DOB… seeing as I’m “watching” this on MLB gamecast, it keeps showing that Frenchy is swining at pitches that are either not even close or just about to hit him… this has been a trend of late with him, being wayyy too aggressive.

By Stu

August 28, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, you did indeed post an “anti” on this idea. For what it’s worth, I agree with you, but I didn’t say so up front, so take that for what it’s worth.

On the other hand, you’ve got Cox and Smoltz trying to find a way to right the ship; we’re in a pretty consistent pattern of playing .500 ball, with the same pattern of 2 good starts, and then over-use of the pen; so I don’t really have TOO big a problem with this effort to improve things. Hope it works tonight, and that Smoltz doesn’t have problems down the road as a result.

I respect Cox, and don’t want to join the whining party. My only criticism of him is, I wish he’d work on using a reliever for more than one inning once in a while. It’s not so much the number of innings, but the number of appearances, that’s wearing out our pen. I do think he’s struggled with the use of the bullpen this year.

By Colin

August 28, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

Good night South Florida…i love how Frank strikes out every time…

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

DOB

Re: your 5:32 post…yes, Chipper is playing but he’s hardly “fine.”

By A-ville Ranger

August 28, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

For all you post game genius’ this is the text from my post at 7:21 yesterday evening…:Smoltz is still 40 years old isn’t he ? He does still have a shoulder problem right ?So what the helllet’s throw him out there on 3 days rest,makes sense to me:.I’m sorry but anybody should have seen that if you’re going to move Smoltz his start should have been moved back not up.Let’s just hope there’s no damage after tonight….worst decision of the year…hands down.

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

unreal, that’s why Harris needs to be resting on the bench

By Colin

August 28, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

YES 2 and 3rd no outs and none in yet…..i love it….

By PrincetonBrave

August 28, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

What are the odds the braves dont get a runner in here?? 90%? 100%?

This is beyond explanation.

It supposed to be relatively easy right?? God.

By bubba

August 28, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

I’m putting out some feed for the naaaaaysayers. Bon appertit.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Colin

August 28, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

WOW FIRE COX..NOW

By Stephen

August 28, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

Pathetic.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

Horrible… plain Horrible… this team does NOT want to win… no squeeze play?! Harris is not even close to being an RBI accident… how many times are the Braves going to have men on 3rd base with NO outs and not score a run?!

By PrincetonBrave

August 28, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

Kelly = Worst situational hitter on the roster.

Willy= Worst situational player, all around.

By GermanBravesFan

August 28, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Let’s see how long it’ll take ROBERT to come on and complain about Smoltz not bunting with runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs…

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

NO COMENTS…….WOULD BE REDUNDANT.

By cricket

August 28, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

Why the heck is willie lifting the instead of trying to hit line drives last few games ??? Is somebody (hitting coach !!) talking to him about it? I am sick of listening to the marlin announcers here in florida mentioning how braves r making this guy look line Cy Young’s father !!

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

From what I read a little bit ago it was Smoltz’s idea to be moved up & he had been after Cox for weeks to do it.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

DOB

Pass on to Bobby we are sick of Harris popping up, not getting bunts down, etc…. His 15 minutes are up. Who would you rather have up Diaz or Harris with the tying run at 2nd, regardless of pitcher?? Time to make a change.

By AZBravoFan

August 28, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this

What a friggin’ embarrassment! The last couple times I’ve seen runners at third with no out, the only good swings came from the pitchers. Hudson drove in a run. Smoltz at least hit the ball hard. Everyone else is just waving at the ball, with no approach whatsoever. Willy needs to sit. Period. Kelly is maddening, because he sure strikes out a lot for someone who’s supposed to have such a good idea of the strike zone.

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

All you Bobby apologists will say what happened in the top of the 5th was largely “bad luck” — you know, Yunel’s ball bouncing into the seats depriving the Braves of a run, Smoltz lining a ball but right to Hermida, a pitch in the dirt that doesn’t get far enough away from the catcher, etc. But the one controllable part of that inning was Willie freaking Harris coming up with one out and hitting his soon to be trademarked lazy fly ball to short right field.

And Simpson comes out tonight with the “maybe Willie hurt his left hand diving for a ball, right around the time he went into his slump.” While Joe sounded more like he was speculating than commenting on known information (Hey, if DOB didn’t mention it, can’t be true) but if he IS hurt and Bobby knows it, than there truly is no earthly explanation for Diaz not to be playing, platoon or not.

By Stuart

August 28, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

Worst Decision of the year: not playing Matt Diaz against the Marlins. I dont care if it is a platoon, but Diaz hits approx. .600 against the Fish. Let Willie have the Cardinals games and keep Diaz in against Florida. It is still a ‘platoon’ that way.

Still like the decision to split the 2 big boys up. Game should only be 2-1 at worst if anybody on this sorry excuse for a baseball team could throw.

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson standing there with the bat on his shoulders, YET AGAIN, with two strikes and ducks on the pond….at a key point in the game.Guy is getting that deer in the headlights look in the clutch.

Oh yeah, another error for McCann. Par for the course this year.Sheesh.

By Ryan

August 28, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

It was fun while it lasted but I think it’s time Willie Harris found his way to the bench.

By Tomahawkin' Again

August 28, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

Let me see if I have the math right here. Diaz plays = 13 runs. Diaz sits = 1 run through 5 inn. I’m no Cox basher here, but I’m starting to believe you can take this LF platoon and shove it up your nose, Bobby. Free Diaz!

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

In fairness to Kelly, that was a nice pitch. The 2nd strike was high and inside. I have never seen so many bad umpires in my life.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

Geoff, PrincetonBrave: Agreed. Pathetic.

Like I said yesterday, they lead the league in hitting with RISP, but seems like so often they pile up those hits in games like yesterday, and can’t get them in close ones like tonight.

By Del

August 28, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

I wonder what it does to a teams morale when the mgr decides to sit his top hitter down and instead play the guy who is slumping the worst in his last 50 ABs? Some of those thoughts might be: I thought these games were ultra critical? or Why do they want me to play hurt when they do stuff like this? or why am I busting my butt when they sit our best hitter? etc,etc,etc.

If we lose this game tonight you can hang it directly on Booby Cox!!

By Daybed Wagmoe

August 28, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

it sure is easy to bash on willie tonight, but doesn’t anybody remember when he reached over the left-field wall in shea stadium to rob delgado of a game-tying home run? wasn’t everybody on the blog worshipping willie?

c’mon guys, give the man a break. don’t be such a fairweather group.

By egraves

August 28, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

This team would be much better if Andruw Jones learn to make better decisions at the plate in clutch situations. He always chokes. I guess he chokes because my friend always see Adruw Jones at the bar drunk, drunk, drunk. One night he took my friend’s fiance by the arm and told her “you are coming with me.” Andruw has serious judgment problems off the field and, consequently, on the field.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

AGREE WITH TOMAHAWKIN

FREE DIAZ

Can I get an amen?

By TNRON

August 28, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

cracks me up tp hear Braves announcers talk about Diaz rep;lacing Willie Harris.Where have they been? Heck its not even a slump for Cox until it reaches 200 AB’s.Cox simply does not have the balls to make the necessary changes.And thats the way hes been the last several years and why the Braves will not win with him as mgr.It doesnt take a rocket scientist to make this change.But he is totaly oblivious to the fact.

By cricket

August 28, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

come on mccann, dude see 1 pitch before swinging to new guy..

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

hERE WE GO AGAIN just to make things even more amazing.

By Stuart

August 28, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris before tonight in July and August and this counts his 6 hit game: 158 ABs 37 H. I understand the platoon somewhat, somewhat. It is stupid, but I understand. However, batting Willie, an injured sub .250 hitter, in the leadoff spot is absurd. He should be hitting 8th if hitting at all. For comparison,all those who want Harris in Center next year, Andruw is hitting .258 over the same stretch.

BTW, Diaz is 41 for 113. That is NOT sub .250. That is PLUS .350

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

Well at least Frenchy went down on a close pitch.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

Why in the world dont they just bunt?

Does it has to be a HR?

They deserve to lose this game.

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

Maybe Francouer still has the superstar of his high school mentality and thinks he has to be the one to get the big hit.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Once again, do I have to mention the fact that this team really does not want to win??? This is getting borderline funny.

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

That plate appearance by AJ was like watching a little-leaguer facing Roger Clemens. Absolutely no chance.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

Weve got to give a nickname to this guys…… its too much of the same.

By Either Orr

August 28, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

So is there a time of year… like now…. when every game is do or die…. that a manager goes against “his” grain and starts making moves based on “whos hot?”

Wille isn’t hitting. Matt is. If you’re leading the division by eight games and you’re trying to play Willie, hoping he’ll come around….that’s one thing. But every game is “must win” especially against teams like the Marlins.

Maybe Willie will start hitting in a couple of weeks, but how many more games will we be back in two weeks? How many opportunities will the Braves have when Willie is at bat and not capitalize?

I know… I know…. Bobby is a HOF manager. Maybe people knowing that will get him a free beer in a bar somewhere in October when he’s watching some other team in the playoffs.

There is absolutely no logic to playing Willie in this circumstance when you got a guy who is hitting a steady .350 on the bench.

One more thing….. if the Braves only score a couple of runs tonight and lose… we’ll hear that they averaged over 6 runs a game in the Florida series so far and the offense is not a problem.

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

For a team that is supposed to have the best offense in the National League, how is it that we know these guys aren’t going to score when they get the first two runners on in an inning with no outs? It’s amazing, just like clockwork, we don’t even get the lead runner to third half of the time.

By ron

August 28, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

Sure will miss Andruw Jones and his .102 batting average (or whatever it is) with runners in scoring position. Yes, I know he leads the team in rbi, but look at all the runners he has stranded. Almost anybody will be better than he is at hitting in the clutch. Even I can wave feably at an outside pitch everytime.

By cricket

August 28, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

like they force basketball players to pass few times before taking a shot, our hitters should be forced to take 1st pitch with runners on base before swinging !!

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

Through SIX INNINGS Frenchy and Andruw are a combined 1-for-6 with five strikeouts and five left on base.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

DayBED

I could have made that catch and it wasn’t that great. He’s not that great. If a player is good, he will continue to perform well after the league adjusts to him and probes his weaknesses.

By TN Jeff

August 28, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

why do the Braves play the 8th & 9th innings when they are behind? They might as well just call the game because this fearsome hitting team are like meek lambs post 7th inning.

In essence - Braves have 7 innings to get enough runs to win. They have NO CLUTCH hitters from 8th inning on. I’ll watch one more inning.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Do you people really thinks this team should be in the playoffs? Andruw needs to shutup and learn to stop pulling outside pitches?

DOB you should have asked him he really thinks he worth 18 million?

By JasonInMaine

August 28, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

Maybe andruw should look in the mirror…his inability to get a big hit has killed us all year…could have used one in that last AB…

Ths is the 3rd series in a row that we get a big W in the opening game, but just can’t keep the momentum going…

By JD

August 28, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

Problem wasn’t Mac in that inning. He got a good pitch to hit and hit it hard, just right at someone. Frenchy has got to learn some way to recognize pitches. You can’t hit a ball when your body is at a 90 degree angle at the waist. In the extra inning game against Cincy last week he saw a total of 12 pitches in 5 ABs. Terrible.

Willy at least has to get 1 run in that situation. I think his problem in the leadoff spot is the Ks and his failure to use his speed well.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

Could be worse: You guys could be here watching it in the worst baseball atmosphere since the final days at Olympic Stadium. Actually, this is worse, because there’s not even a roof to trap what little n noise the few thousand fans in the place are making. And they’re making very, very little.

Every time a drunk (or anyone else) shouts, you hear it like he’s sitting in your house shouting from down the hall.

By Stuart

August 28, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

it sure is easy to bash on willie tonight, but doesn’t anybody remember when he reached over the left-field wall in shea stadium to rob delgado of a game-tying home run? wasn’t everybody on the blog worshipping willie?

Yes we were, still doesnt mean he should be starting over Diaz against the Marlins. Diaz has ungodly numbers against the Marlins. It means he should be a defensive replacement until his wrist heals or forever, I dont care.

Source MLB.com July and August Willie SUB .250 37 for 158 Diaz PLUS .360 41 for 113

For Comparison Source telecast tonight Andruw .258

I like Willie, heck I even kind of understand the platoon in a way, but now aint the time for loyalty and nostagic catches over the wall. It is time to hit with runners on. It is time to play Diaz more, and when Willie plays, to bat him 8th if at all.

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

This 2 run lead by the Marlins, with our lineup, may as well be 5 or 6 runs.I have zero confidence this team will be able to come back and take the lead.

By AZBravoFan

August 28, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, Can you get a number for us on the Braves average with a runner on third and less than 2 out? Or maybe the percentage of those runs driven in? I can’t remember the last time they scored with a freaking sac fly. Or even a GIDP for cryin’ out loud!

By tbo

August 28, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

Chris Woodward about to hit for Smoltz. Diaz on the bench while Willie pops out time and time again. I seriously think that Bobby Cox is trying to lose this game and all games. HE IS A FRIGGING IDIOT.

Fire Bobby Cox. Please.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

Bobby and his stupid loyalty to his players.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

tomahawking again why do you think we bash?……. man smoltz needed run support tonight, and what does bobby do? sits diaz. amazing!!!!!!!!!!

By Stuart

August 28, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

I did not mean to make the same point twice. I appologize, my internet connection acted funny. Sorry everyone.

By TN Jeff

August 28, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

Still chuckling over Braves homer announcers comments a week or so ago proclaiming that nobody knows how to pitch Francour. The Mighty Marlins seemed to have the key!

This is pathetic.

Braves comments after the game - now we really got to start winning games in chunks. Springboard from 13 runs to 1 - wow!

When was the last time moving a Braves pitcher up to pitch on short week has worked to our advantage? Why do we keep doing it. Whatever dead arm dim-wit they send out to start the game tomorrow will provide us a new losing streak. We’ll really have to start winning games in chunks then.

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Hey Simpson, go to the video tape and telestrate for me “every hard hit ball” that Woodward’s had lately. Gimme a break.

By Braves Fan 79

August 28, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

this sucks….so glad we have such great backups like woodcrap, and now we bring up orr? Weve GOT TO HAVE THE WORST BENCH IN THE MAJORS! Lets hope woodcrap gets hit in the foot and his season is over! One can only hope right!

By Either Orr

August 28, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Fairweather fan? Because Willie is slumping, Bobby should play him the rest of the way with the SEASON depending on it because he made a great catch????

Well Kyle Davies could beat the Mets with one hand tied behind his back so I suppose the Braves treated him badly and traded him because he couldn’t beat anyone else huh?

I’m tired of people here preaching to others on what a true “fan” is.

Ok, I’m not a fan then. I’m a follower of the Braves. I root for the Braves. I’m not a fan if being a fan means having to check your brain at the door in April and not picking it up until October!

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Oh good………..woodcrap……….is diaz injured?

i rather see js bat.

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

Andruw may(should say would) have won the MVP in ‘05, if not for his .203 avg with RISP. He’s not going to change. He’s never been clutch.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this

Why does Escobar hit in front of Andruw DOB? Even though he lead off the seventh with an out, he still had a better at bat than Andruw. If he batted Andruw 8th he would still be in the lineup.

Will somebody tell the announcers to shutup about Andruw? I don’t want to hear about how well he has hit lately?

All I know is he struck out to end the game against St.Louis with runners at 2nd and 3rd and he just struck out with men in scoring position. He sucks!

Even Chris Woodward handles the bat better than Andruw!

Stupid Bobby!

By bfan54

August 28, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this

With all the negativism we here on this I wanted to voice my approval for the consistently, post-after-post, solid analysis of Lew. Just thought I’d mention it - he’s not the only poster I appreciate, either. Don’t know about others, but I come here for Braves ‘news and views’. But for Lew’s early post, I would have thought obtaining Dontrelle Willis worthwhile, even tho’ I knew his best years were gone. An early poster also did justice to the difference between speed and base stealing. FWIW I am not sure I want to jump off the Willie Harris bandwagon. While it was rolling a month or so ago, everybody jumped on until he went 5 for 5. Too early. (I do wish, for all its worth, that I had the turn of expression of JJS. I’d kill for that!)

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

tbo better change of team……..the old dumb is gonna be here the rest of the season and next year…..

woodcrap walkssssssssssssss

wooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww

headlines

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

And this game fellow denizens, pretty much sums up the year.

Geaux Braves!!

By Braves Fan 79

August 28, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Why did Diaz not get the start tonight? im so tired of this lefty/righty bullcrap! Like i said this time last week…it will take till the final 10 games of the season for Bobby to realize Diaz is hot..and Willie is not! So we waste our best pitchhitter there in Diaz…and woodcrap is staying in the game? am i missing something?

By Mark

August 28, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Now you pinch hit Diaz. Oops I remember there is lefty on the mound! Bobby always goes by the book.

Maybe he should have pinch hit last time for Willie. I forgot a righty was on the mound.

People just give up this team sucks!

By Tomahawkin' Again

August 28, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Just heard this stat on Braves Radio: the Braves bench is hitting .194 this year. Wow, between the Braves pinch hitting and the back-end of the rotation this year, amazing we’re only 4 games out of a playoff spot. Bobby for manager of the year for keeping this bunch as close as they are…LOL

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

Even the Marlins announcers are questioning not playing Diaz everyday, especially against them.

By TN Jeff

August 28, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

Game over - no clutch hitters post 7th inning. ANYBODY know when the Braves pulled out a victory after the 7th inning? I can remember tons of games where we pulled out a loss from a sure victory after the 7th.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

Todd A you are absolutely right. He sucks!

By JD

August 28, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

I think they just about burned all their clutch hits in April (like Renteria’s 3 run homer in the 7th and then Kelly’s 3 run homer in the 8th against the Mets that Sunday Smoltz-Glavine game) when they always seemed to get them. I think the last clutch hit they got late in a close game was Diaz off Lidge (in a game they eventually lost, of course!).

By Mackey Sasser

August 28, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

Top 8, 2-3-4 coming up. Here’s your season folks.

By KC

August 28, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

Many of you know me as an optimist, but if we lose tonight and tomorrow night… unless the Padres also lose the next 2, it’ll be time to start talking about next year.

Not giving up here tonight… hopefully we’ll pull this one out. But if we lose the next 2, it’ll get awfully bleak in a hurry.

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

Marlins have lost 12 of 13(?), and we’re on the verge of losing to them with one of our aces on the mound. Not to mention, the Marlins’ starter had an ERA of 7.00 against the Braves going in. Jeez, how much worse can it get?

By Steve from OH

August 28, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin’ Again:

W/O Diaz they’re hitting like .164.

Not good.

By N8

August 28, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

Oh my. BIG shocker tonight.

Just think, I was ONLY 1 run off, with my prediction last night, about losing tonight’s game by 1 run.

This team is as predictible as the sun rising in the morning.

I guess there still is 2 innings left for them to score a meaningless run to make it a 1-run game. :-)

Sure glad we made Smoltz pitch on 3 days rest for this, huh?

By TN Jeff

August 28, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

CHipper - clutch? Or double play ball?

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Chipper…another flick of the wrists and GONE! He’s not even close to being healthy and still rakes.

By Tomahawkin' Again

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Crazy Train, baby! Chipper!!

By cricket

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

yessssssssssss chippppppppperrrrrrrr

By Mackey Sasser

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Hell Yes…

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

There is some fight in this team left after all. Way to be clutch Chipper!!

By Lew

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

All Right, Chipper.

By Steve from OH

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

CHIPPER!!!!

By JD

August 28, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Tie game. They are just teasing us. Where’s Wick to come in and somehow screw this up!

By TN Jeff

August 28, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this

tied but NOT won - yet. Still need probably 4 runs. Can we even score 1 more?

By Salty

August 28, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this

Does ‘situational’ walk count for anything…nice, KJ! Oh, and that little ‘situational’ bagger by Chipper, not bad either. Bad luck for the fish, right?

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

I have a little, just little.

Who do you think is the best player for the braves ever….

A) Chipper B) Smoltz C) Maddux D) Glavine E) Aaron

My choice would be Chipper, maybe he has more chance to make an impact as he plays daily, but he just is unbelievable.

I hope i get some answers on this one. its interesting.

By N8

August 28, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

WOW, b!tch and you shall receive, huh?

But even you all have to admit, I was pretty damn close to predicting that one. Too bad I’m not in the middle of a hand grenade contest.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

Chipper! CHipper!

Just sit down Francouer, you’re entitled to have a game like this. You are one of the guys that got us here. Unlike AJ

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

You could see this coming with Francouer…he went through a stretch where he had some hard hit balls that were caught, just foul, etc. His attitude seemed to be he just needed to swing harder to get his way out of the slump, and voila — golden sombrero.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB… while we much appreciate the efforts of Chipper right there… three stright K’s? You’d think that would fire up a team? But then again, Frenchy was hitting so he was due for a strikeout in this game. Gotta like Moylan again though…

By geauxbraves2000

August 28, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

I guess Francouer has pretty much resigned himself to swinging at every pitch.

If he would learn to be a little more patient when a little bit of a slump rolls around, maybe that slump wouldn’t last long. If you aren’t swinging at balls, pitchers are going to throw you strikes.

WTG Chipper!!

Geaux Braves!!

By Tomahawkin' Again

August 28, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

What the f@#$ is wrong with Jeff? He couldn’t hit those pitches if he was in the other batters box. Let’s see, no Wick to screw this up…maybe Yates?

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

TP needs to get to work on Francouer. Looks terrible.

By MEB

August 28, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

N8… as usual your timing is impeccable. What can you do for an encore?

GO BRAVES!!!

By Robert

August 28, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Unbelievable.

The man is probably the most selfish player in baseball. He wont even consider doing what’s good for the team because he’s a “pull hitter”

But now, he’s being PRAISED for backstabbing a teammate who all of a sudden became a scapegoat.

Now that Wicky is gone, it’s awful easy to say he was a problem all along.

O’Brien has sunk to a new low in his a*-kissing of Braves management with this one

Meanwhile, if we can somehow get Donk ejected, we could have a chance in this game

By Mark

August 28, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

Moylan for President!

By Mackey Sasser

August 28, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

get off Moylan. 20 pitches, 2 innings of nada.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

Moylan really looked like a bulldog those 2 innings…

By mr baseball

August 28, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Fredi Gonzalez is a chip off the Bobby Cox strategically challenged block. Not sure how many times Benitez has coughed up a lead against the Braves, but it has to be pushing double figures. As long as he kept pumping fastballs at Chipper, one of them was bound to find the seet spot of Chipper’s bat, and it did.

I can’t believe Chance the Manager is actually allowing an effective reliever to work 2 innings. 6 up and 6 down. Good on ya, Peter. What a dilemma for Cox in the ninth: Orr or Thorman? Just as soon see Hudson swinging a bat as what jokingly passes for a Braves’ bench.

By cricket

August 28, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

man, escobar is always on base..bat him higher already !!

By Mark

August 28, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

AJ just sucks! Another Hat Trick! He must lead the league.

Escobar comes through again.

Oh no Thorman!!

By Robert

August 28, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

“Who do you think is the best player for the braves ever….

A) Chipper B) Smoltz C) Maddux D) Glavine E) Aaron

Aaron - in a landslide

Best pitcher is Maddux. Smoltzie gets a mention being a lifer with the team, but as great as he was/is, cant hold a candle to Maddux

Chipper, and Glavine, while sure fire HOFers, but a distant fourth and fifth

Boy, makes you realize that ole Donk had some talent. JS went and bought some fine filet mignon and gave it to Chef Bobby, who serves up overcooked burgers and overpriced stadium beer year after year

By Stephen

August 28, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

Wow Scott Thorman gettin the job done again, At’ a boy

By Mark

August 28, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

Thorman swinging 2-0. WHY!!!

That’s why we should have let him go and kept Julio.

Thorman is Klesko reborn.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

August 28, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Gotta say that Druw cracking on anybody this year doesn’t carry the weight of years past. At least Wickman cared about his role, and not performing up to snugg. Druw just seems to have the same smirk through continual strike outs, ground outs and leaving a gazillion men on base in scoring position this year. I have been among his biggest supporters on this blog in the past (shameless supporter, I admit). But, DAYUM, the guy has killed us this year at the plate. Defensively, he’s still the man and will win another gold glove. I’m not sure he is worth $10 mil a year, much less the $22 to $25 Bora$$ is gonna try to get him.

By N8

August 28, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

Overlord

I think it’s ironic that while we’re posting on a blog where DOB states that Andruw said we’re one pitcher away from conteding, that you would call Chipper the best ever.

I think he’s great, there is NO denying that. Tom Glavine was amazing during his Braves career as well, and one certainly can’t overlook what hank did.

Maddux basically only spent half of his career here, so not sure he applies.

What I will comment on though, is that Maddux’s 93-95 stretch, is arguably the most dominant that any player has been (much less another Braves player), over a 3 year stretch at their position.

My vote would be for Glavine, but that’s only because, I’m more of a pitcher guy.

But it’s pretty amazing to think that the 96 team that choked the WS that year, had 5 legitimate HOF(possibly 6) guys on the roster. The five are as follows:

1) Maddux (no brainer)

2) Glavine (no brainer)

3) Smoltz (should be no brainer - but he might lack some votes initially)

4) Chipper (should be a no brainer due to playing 3B and being a switch-hitter)

5) Andruw. (OK he was a VERY young rookie, but he should be a no-brainer as well as long as this year isn’t the beginning of a trend)

The wild-card 6th option?

Fred McGriff. He probably won’t get in. But he SHOULD based on the fact that he played in the steroids era, and more than likely was NOT on steroids, yet he was always near the top of the leaderboards in HR & RBI, played decent defense at 1B, and was pretty damn consistant.

That’s a LOT of talent that was on this team for many years. In fact now I just got myself all mad again at that 96 team. LOL! When one fifth of your roster is going to the HOF, and you blow a 2 game lead…..

Aw. Never mind. I’m over it now.

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

If the Braves changed their team hotel to a Holliday Inn Express they just might have a shot at the playoffs.

By FIRE BOBBY

August 28, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

The Astros did it. The Cubs did it last year. Please can we be next to fire our manager?

FIRE BOBBY COX!!!!!!!!!!!!

By JD

August 28, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

I am never buying Diet Pepsi Max!!!

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the answer Robert…… I didnt get to follow Aaron that much because of my age. Agree on Maddux, much better than smoltz.

But about chipper….. i just he do so much for this team. Its just clutch. He is a one man team.

By JJMB

August 28, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Robert, Aaron the best? The Atlanta team or the Milwaukee team? Best for the Milwaukee team, but not the Atlanta team. Aaron played from 1966 to 1974 for Atlanta. Average wins, 80.

Aaron had great numbers, but from what I remember in Atlanta, he didn’t carry the team. Lots of blowout, meaningless HRs.

By N8

August 28, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

MEB

A simple “thank you” would’ve been just fine. :-)

Mayhay just walked a batter, would you like me to complain about it, so he strikes out the next two guys?

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

Mark he is klesko much better than him, i remember klesko has hit near .300 lots of times, as far as i remember.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

That was scary!

Good job Mahay!

By Tomahawkin' Again

August 28, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

Fightin’ Phils just came off the deck to tie the Muts, 2-2 in the 8th

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

When did Corey Hart start closing games for the Marlins?

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

N8 thanks for the post. Appreciate it. Ill still vote for chipper.

fastasballs that was a good one, lets buy a hotel for them. hahaha

By Steve

August 28, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this

Did I hear correctly that the Marlin’s catcher had only thrown out about 12% of base steal attempts? If that’s the case, why didn’t Cox have Escobar try and steal 2nd in the top of the 9th? I just don’t get it. How many times did Cox have Harris try and steal against catchers who throw out a fairly high percentage of runners, and often during moments when getting a runner to 2nd wasn’t even critical? Yet we sit on our hands in a tie game in the top of the 9th against a catcher with a very low throw-out percentage when it was critical to get that runner into scoring position.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Sorry DOB,

Don’t believe Chipper’s not hurt. Give it up man!

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

I think its time that the Marlins simply go out there with the pitcher and catcher…

By Braves Fan 79

August 28, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

So our backup 3rd basemen is woodcrap?? we REALLY have NO ONE better in the minors!?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?? And i love how the announcers say “thorman is really due for one” hasent thorman been due since spring training? I cannot believe we brought orr back…even thou i like him better than woodcrap. I thought we were going to improve our bench over time….not prove how retarted our player selection has been this year! Man if i see this mark texeria song again im gonna throw something at the tv. Especially after losses!

By The Grinch

August 28, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

Morning, all. Looks like we got a game going here.

Greatest Atlanta Braves pitcher to me was Maddux. He was so much better to me that it compensates for less time in the uniform. His excellence here will never be repeated.

By Tomahawkin' Again

August 28, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know what the record is for most strikeouts by a team that won in a single game? 18 K’s through 10…anyone, anyone, do I hear 20?

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Can I get a HotDamn!!?

Just listened to the new Rilo Kiley and the Richard Swift album… so stinkin’ good.
I had that Dick Swift album a long time ago and some yahoo up and took off with it. Left the state. Probably best for him cause he’s got another thing coming. But I picked up another copy last night and HotDamn that’s one fine piece of work.

Now hold ‘em Yates!

GO BRAVES!!

By HaRdTiMe

August 28, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

Anyokne else nkotice alkl those strikekkouts tonkight? I dkon’t get teklevised gamkes herke in Mid-MO sko I cakn onlky reckin’ thke lights are out aknd they’re swikngin’ fkor itk! Ks EVERYWHERE!

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Steve, c’mon. Don’t you get it? There was one guy on base (Escobar) and all Bobby was doing was waiting for another runner to get on so he could use his favorite strategy - the 3-run home run.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Any news on renteria?

Hope he can play in 10 days.

By HaRdTiMe

August 28, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Here we go again… Yates in the game. Another L. Bobby, what’s wrong? Forget your meds?

By Mackey Sasser

August 28, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

If Soriano is available, now is the time…

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Can we start paying OT to our hitters in extra innings? They hit like they’re not getting paid.

Oh shyte, here comes that Uggla MFer.

By dobearsbare

August 28, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Yes, it is refreshing to hear a player — any player — speak his mind. But when was the last time Andruw was the one doing it publicly? The Wickman comments are the first ones I recall that called out another player like that. Could it be that Andruw knows he’s not coming back next year and feels less inhibited as a result?

By TrueBlueBravesFan

August 28, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

I hate to say it but this one feels like a loss..2 Men on and 1 Out in the 10th with Marlins decent hitters coming up

By Mackey Sasser

August 28, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Season on the line and it’s Cabrera v Yates? ugh.

By beachcomber

August 28, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Tyler, Tyler, Tyler…. You’re going to give this old man a heart attack. Let’s get some runs boys!

By Bobby Cocks must be fired immediately

August 28, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

2 Observations Joe Simpson must be Chris Woodward’s drinking buddy on the road because all he does is make excuses for his sorry play. If we did get rid of Bobby and ended up with Terry Pendleton we would be no better off. Need to Girardi type to come in and cuss out this sorry a$$ bunch. Saw Pendleton might go to Kansas City next year, hope he takes Chino with him. I sincerely believe Pat Corrales kept Donk straight on the bench and has been severly missed this season

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

They have to figure out any way to score a run. They can’t waste the pen & lose in 13 or 14 innings. They have to break the trend & get a W on the road in extra innings. Maybe Andruw or Frenchy can lean into a pitch, anything to get a runner on.

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

4 K’s! Fracoeur has to stop looking in the mirror. He’s only seen 2 balls all day.

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

5 K’s and an ejection when there is nobody on the bench to play the outfield, reallllllllllllllll smart Frenchy.

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Ejected!?!? Way to go.

5 K’s and two more balls. Is that a double take?

Why the hell did Jeff do that?? It’s an extra inning game for crying out loud! Damnitalltohell!

By HaRdTiMe

August 28, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

19 and counting. How hard can one team try to lose?

By Six Four Three

August 28, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

Frenchy just got thrown out, and deservedly so. He looked at the 1st base umpire and said, “you suck”, after the check swing call. IMO, it was the correct call. Is it just me since I pretty much only watch the Braves, but do we complain and whine more than other teams? I’d like for the Braves to shut up, and play ball.

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

Wow we need to win this game…..

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

unbelievable. simply the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen Francoeur do. I cannot believe it.

Put it away here Bravos. You gotta!

By TrueBlueBravesFan

August 28, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

Jeff Francour needs a day off in the worst way. He’s starting to swing at everything. And what a bone headed move getting thrown out.

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

O my god. Frenchy is 0-5 with 5 K’s.

Wow…….

By Glavine's a TRADER!

August 28, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Let’s see Andrew— Your average is what??? Gimme a break - Trade Andrew for some pitching!

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Francouer is tired…….. bench him bobby, he aint no cal ripken.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

While Frenchy’s streak of playing 2.5 stright seasons w/out sitting is great, he could use some pine… thank God he was tossed.

By BravesDave

August 28, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

I hope this game goes about 20 innings just to see how many times Francoeur can strike out.

I know, I know…a true Braves fan wouldn’t say that. Well, I am saying it. It is absurd to swing and miss at so many pitches in one game.

By BG

August 28, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Scary but true…now playing left field for the Atlanta Braves…Pete Orr. Wow. Jeff gets tossed on top of striking out five times. Ouch. Maybe there will be a small miracle.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

19Ks tonight

19Ks against reds the other day.

Whats up man?????

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Villareal + Hermida = Trouble

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

C’mon Vulture. Set’em down.

By Ron Roberts

August 28, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

* SO MUCH FOR MOVING SMOLTZ IN THE ROTATION TO GIVE THE BULLPEN A BREAK, EH?*

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Damn Oscar!!!!!!!

What is with this team?!?!?!?!?!?!?

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

That’s a routine freaking fly ball to left center that has to be caught. Freaking Francouer.

By N8

August 28, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

How’s this game for ironic?

Bobby puts Smoltz “up” a spot in the rotation on 3 days rest, to break up him and Hudson to give the bullpen a break.

Huh. Nothing like an extra innings game to mess that strategy up. Unreal.

Bobby’s got it goin’ so bad right now, that even when he makes a smart/correct move (I’ve been thinkin Smoltz and Hudson need to be split up for weeks), it backfires on him.

I guess that’s Braves baseball circa: 2007, huh?

By Mackey Sasser

August 28, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

throw em the funny one Oscar!

By BravesDave

August 28, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Wow, I didn’t even realize he was ejected. I guess I should take the TV off mute and look up a little more often.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Howard walkoff HR.

By Stephen

August 28, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Real smart Jeff, get yourself thrown out of an extra inning game. Great thinking.

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Phillies win. Charlie Manuel has done a better job than BC.

By beachcomber

August 28, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Don’t blame the pen for this one. Four innings of shutout ball. Blame the offense for not getting a run after Chipper bailed us out. That and an immature kid who weakened our defense by throwing a tantrum and getting booted.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

More opportunities gone… this team cannot win past the 9th inning… anything in extras is more or less a delayed out.

By The Grinch

August 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

I hate it when that happens.

By Mackey Sasser

August 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

game over. season over. night night Braves. See all of you in February.

By Steve

August 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

I thought Cox should have had Andruw Jones try to steal 2nd on the first pitch. But again, with a Marlins catcher who throws a very very low percentage of runners out, we sit on our hands when getting a runner into scoring position is critical. And then Escobar hits into a double play. So instead of possibly getting 2 at-bats with a runner in scoring position, we get zero at-bats with a runner in scoring position.

In the aggregate, these are where net wins are either added to the season’s total, or in the case of the Braves, subtracted.

Cox is such a p** poor tactical manager on so many levels. And one of these such levels is that he consistently runs when he shouldn’t, and doesn’t run when he should.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

More opportunities gone… this team cannot win past the 9th inning… anything in extras is more or less a delayed loss.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

More opportunities gone… this team cannot win past the 9th inning… anything in extras is more or less a delayed loss.

By Geoff

August 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

More opportunities gone… this team cannot win past the 9th inning… anything in extras is more or less a delayed loss.

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Losing like this every other day is really getting old. Everyone say thanks to Frenchy, that ball is caught if Orr isn’t out there getting in the way or Diaz would have had it.

By JD

August 28, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Leave it to the Braves to lose to a team that had won once in its past 13 games.

Told ya they were teasing us.

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Earlier this year, when the Braves ran out of players, Bobby put Harris at 3rd (where he had like 1 game of experience), put Chipper at short (where he hasn’t played since whenever) and left Kelly Johnson at 2nd. The RIGHT thing to do would have been to put KJ at short (where he used to play), left Chipper at 3rd and put Harris at 2B (where he used to play regularly.

Fast forward to tonight, where it would have made way more sense to put KJ in the outfield and Orr at second.

In both situations, Bobby left KJ at second and totally screwed up at least one other position. Don’t get it.

By Tomahawkin' Again

August 28, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Braves just lost to a team that quit playing about 3 weeks ago. Struck out 19 times one night after they put up 13 runs. Ladies and gentlemen, that is your 2007 Atlanta Braves.

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Jeff Frickin Francoeur. Thank you. Thank you for that one.

By Six Four Three

August 28, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Well, Frenchy can look in the mirror and hopefully learn something from this. Diaz would have made the play in LF (ie. he would have remainded there if Frenchy hadn’t gotten himself ejected), and the inning would have been over after the flyout to right. AJ was simply attempting to compensate for Orr’s inexperience. If Frenchy had remained in the game, the Braves are batting in the 12th. Wow, the wild card is slipping away.

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

DOB

Whats worng with this team? The Phillies have had so much more injuries. Why can’t we get it together? Another loss in a tight game. We just aren’t a clutch team………

By Ron Roberts

August 28, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Just typical.

Call me a pessimist if you want; but facts are facts. We’ve lost far too many of these games all season. Lost more than won, and lost more than won against teams we shouldn’t have had to have such issues beating.

Another wasted Smoltz effort. Another double-digit barrage followed by offensive ineptitude.

Another loss, and another night we either fail to make up ground or lose ground on our ever-slipping playoff possibilities.

By Not giving up

August 28, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

I am not giving up with the phillies comign to the ted September shall eb a magical month, I am still pulling for these guys NOT OVER don’t give up on your team. GO BRAVES

ONE MONTH TO GO LET”S GO GUYS

By Braves Fan 79

August 28, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

wow…thank God we have andrew and all his honesty right DOB? Maybe hell be honest with himself and sign a 1 yr extension for about 1 million! Uhh this sucks…we dont deserve to make the playoffs. and JS and Cox are both directly responsible… This offseason priority #1: BRING BACK GLAVINE! AND LEAVE ALL THE CRAPPY VETERANS ALONE!

By Not giving up

August 28, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

I am not giving up with the phillies comign to the ted September shall eb a magical month, I am still pulling for these guys NOT OVER don’t give up on your team. GO BRAVES

ONE MONTH TO GO LET”S GO GUYS

By N8

August 28, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

How does one spell mediocre again?

Oh yeah. ATLANTA BRAVES.

Can’t wait for all the homers to talk about how we’re still just one “winning streak” away from taking over the wild card. That’s always entertaining.

I’m sure we’ll sweep the Mets this weekend to pull within 12 games of the NL East. :-) THEN the homers will argue with the Mets fans about how they suck and we “own” them.

(sigh)

Oh well. Mike Hampton will save this team next year, right?

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Great call, put the mop up man in there. How can you walk that flea? Anyone who think this guy has talent better think again. He looks better than he really is because he usually comes into a game after the opponent is well ahead. Put him in these conditions and he’ll fail 7 out of 10.

Why can’t these guys hit in extra innings? Are they tired, glycemic??? Somebody spring for some red bull.

Anyone want to buy my Saturday tickets? Worthless now.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

The runners were on base and yet again….. nobody could bunt the ball……. guess they all are going to HR, yeah right………..

Stupid way of thinking, as i said, they deserve this loss.

And guess whos fault is it?

Yes you guessed right. He is name is Robert Cox

By NOt giving up

August 28, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

DOB I still believe this weekend Met’s and Phillies counts for everything, what do you think, give me something, Pat

By Robert

August 28, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

He HEE he haw haw HAW

Of course it wasnt Cox’s fault that Villareal couldnt hit the side of a barn. Of course it’s not Cox’s fault that Frenchy did something stupid. Of course nothing is Cox’s fault, except that the game got to the point where Frenchy’s idiocy and Villarreal’s wildness cost them

Had they been well trained in fundamental skills, the Braves wouldve won this game in regulation

Yup, last night they showed everybody that they were still the big bad Braves that everybody respects and envies

Yup. Uh huh. And that Cox is a HOF manager lemme tell ya

Prediction - tomorrow we lose again because the bullpen is overworked

Now I can really see why it so vital to pitch Mahay last night

Having Cox manage a baseball team is like to swim with a 2-ton anchor chained to your ankle

By JD

August 28, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

Hey Glavine’s a Trader - First, no one’s taking a free agent to be for anyone worthwhile. Second, it’s T-R-A-I-T-O-R, moron.

By N8

August 28, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Oh. Forgot to add this.

For the record, I WAS RIGHT ABOUT US LOSING TONIGHTS GAME BY ONE RUN!

Like I said. Predictable. We’ll also lose tomorrow’s game by 1 run. THEN we’ll pound the Mets, winning by at least 8 runs, only to lose the next two by less than 2 runs each.

It’s a cycle that’s been going on for about 5 months.

Oh well. I guess as long as the offensive “stats” appear to the outsiders that our offense is potent, ESPN will still talk about how good our hitting is. Only problem with that is that it only MAGNIFIES how horrendous our pitching is. :-)

By lilman916

August 28, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

If the Braves were a horse, you’d be forced to take them out and shoot them. Just to put them out of their misery.

By Overlord

August 28, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

I mean, bases loaded, you need a KKKK. Get your KKKKK guys in, soriano, acosta, for the love of the lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 This guy cant be such a big idiot.

By Ron

August 28, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Well I said we HAD to sweep and we did not!!! Not surprised!!! Nothing surprises me anymore!!! The ONLY thing that would surprise me is IF one of our pitchers throws a perfect game through 9 innings and STILL loses because of errors!!! Now that is the ONLY true thing that would surprise me anymore!!! This is WHAT we do!!! This team is Underachievers!!! I said it 2 weeks ago!!! Nothings changed!!! And tomorrow we will Probably end up losing!!! What else is new!!! Welcome to the 2007 Atlanta Braves!!! What a Joke!!!

By A-ville Ranger

August 28, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

The two things that kill this team were both evident tonight…they can’t beat the weak teams and they can’t get the clutch hit late.I know, we need starting pitching.That is as they say as it is.If you can only run a 5.0 forty…well you can’t run a 4.5 forty.This losing to bad teams and not hitting in clutch situations as risen to the level of a pathology though…it’s a real head scratcher (or hair puller outter).

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

Wow. That is a tough loss. Looks like we will have to go 20-9 the rest of the season. Does everyone understand what is happening right now?

We have turned into the Phillies…….mediocre.

I’m sure DOB and NCScoots will say the pessimists are a*****, but they are wrong. There is something wrong with this team that is more than bad luck. They f*** up in key spots. I don’t know why, but they do.

By fastasballs

August 28, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

The Mets have a team option on Glavine for 2008. That means if the Mets want him he plays for them or they could decline the option. The latter is not happening, Glavine won’t be here, at least not next season.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

DOB

Still waiting on Chipper update. Everyone can see the grimace on his face. It looks like the oblique muscle again. Please confirm!!!

By N8

August 28, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

Was listening to Blue Collar Comedy on the Sirius Radio the other day, and heard a comedian (forgot who it was), referring to our White House as the Wizzard of Oz, due to there being a guy with no heart and a guy without a brain.

Only reason that I’m mentioning it, is because with Bobby’s decision making (NOT putting KJ in LF and Orr at 2B), he has now turned the Braves into the Wizzard Oz on turf.

We’ve got a TEAM with no heart, and manager without a brain (night after night of ridiculous decisions), and no courage (to bench a guy that isn’t even gonna be on the team next year). Not to mention that since I truely believe that there will be flying monkey coming out of my azz before this team makes the playoffs this year, it appears to be a perfect match.

By Lionel

August 28, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Okay Andruw, I see…when we had Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine on the staff at the same time, we merely needed them to make the playoffs, not to just win 1 World Series, right? The ownership at that time provided the Braves with the resources to put that staff together and Manager Bobby Cox over all those years led the Braves to ONE W.S. title. What a bunch of wasted opportunities over the last 15 years.

By Either Orr

August 28, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

I can’t even REALY get mad any more! LOL

How many ways can you find to lose a game? :)

19 K’s. No hits with RISP. Francouer looked like he had never EVER hit in the big leagues.

Frenchy gets tossed and leaves Orr to play left.

Oscar walks the potential winning run.

Andruw has to run two miles for a ball and calls off ORR who is practically camped under the ball already.

You can see it on their faces. You can tell by the way they are playing. This team has already resigned themselves to the fact they aren’t going to make the playoffs.

It’s like watching a bad car accident about to happen… you want to turn away but you’re mesmerized.

Wow…… just……wow.

By Robert

August 28, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

“Just typical.

Call me a pessimist if you want; but facts are facts. We’ve lost far too many of these games all season”

But the manager has nothing to do with it since he doesnt in any way set the team’s “typical” strategy or their “typical” mindset or their “typical” way of going about their business.

Yup.

Watching a promising Braves team get ground into manure by Cox is sad.

Watching the clueless Braves fans who see it all happening and then cant figure out what is going wrong is pathetic

The $80 million dollar team loses again thanks to the workings of it’s 50-cent reject control tower

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Another predictable close loss following a big offensive outburst. Another player ejected for whining about bad calls. This team doesn’t have ONE single championship element remaing in them. They have completely forgotten how to win. Now the Braves are just another middle of the pack payroll team, with a few good players. They are still marketable, they are just not winners anymore. The team that has taken such great pride in it’s pitching over the last 2 decades, can’t field but two competent starters, and one is 40 years old.

Oh yeah, 19 more strike outs tonight. This after 12 the night before(even with 13 runs) 0 for 8 with RISP against a team that had lost 12 of 13 coming in.

Any pitcher that ever throws Franceour or Andruw a strike should be fined $5,000. Period. Uh, Frenchy, you ain’t at Parkview anymore. I know you’re living a dream playing for the hometown Braves, but, we don’t need another Andruw here. Been there done that for 11 years. We’re just finally showing his lazy @$$ the door this year. Keep hacking away, son. You’ll find yourself in Tampa playing in front of 12,000 before you know it. Better learn some plate discipline. Ask Kyle Davies and McCay McBride about hometown loyalty. Nick Green too, for that matter.

By TNRON

August 28, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

There was no excuse for that sorry loss tonite.Orr was practically standing under the ball.He should have been calling ANDREW off,not that he would have heard him over the sellout crowd.Francoeur should be benched for tomorrows game.If you cant do better than 4-6 on a road trip like this it really doesnt matter.To be tossed in a game you had to have is inexcusable.But with Donk there is never a penalty for stupid play.Just some kind of Pollyanna bull and excuses.I wonder if this team will even finish .500.Might be better if they dont.JS is probably convinced only the tremendous amount of injuries kept us from running away with it.This team really needs to be retooled.

By The Grinch

August 28, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton returning will be just like getting a free agent ace. Have no fear. My, my. Well, there’s always tomorrow. And with the extra innings we got to see 5 more Diet Pepsi Max commercials and listen to Honest Reginald tell us “If you want to do it, it can be done.”

By Efrim

August 28, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

I know that is only one game, but they are going to lose tomorrow nights game. D Willis is going to outpitch Carlyle. Holy f***. Frenchy reminded me why we shouldn’t give him a contract extension and why we should wait for Cody Johnson and Jason Heyward to develop…….

I guess I am too NEGATIVE.

By Iowa Brave

August 28, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Not 1 SB attempt vs the worst defense in the league to put the pressure on them, and I thought that when you get the bases loaded late, you brought in a strikeout pitcher to get that 2nd out. Pretty sure we had 2 or 3 out in the pen. It seems this team wasn’t scored an extra inning run since year 3 of the Clinton administration, but still, got make those moves, don’t ya? Maybe it wasn’t Leo that was so valuable to the Braves of the 90s, but Pat Corrales.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

The JD Drew trade still sticks in my craw as possibly the worst in Braves’ history.

Are you serious? JD Drew gave the Braves an MVP-caliber season. And what did they give up? Three above average pitchers.

Would the Braves be better off today if they hadn’t made that trade? Quite possibly but they got an MVP-caliber season. And they didn’t give up any superstars.

By Daybed Wagmoe

August 28, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

tampabrave,

i never said that willie was a great player, although he has far surpassed everyone’s expectations of him this year. i was simply pointing out the fairweather attitude towards a player that has helped this year’s team by, among other things, making a spectacular catch (you can’t just dismiss the catch because of his recent slump) and going 6-for-6 in a game.

By JD

August 28, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

OK, now it’s time for the hitters to take some heat. They lost a 1 run game Saturday for Huddy, they lost Sunday when Reyes gave them 6 IP and 2 earned and tonight Smoltz gave them 6 IP and 3 earned in yet another 1 run loss. Just 1 from when they had 2nd and 3rd, no outs would’ve won it. They made this Vandenhurk kid and Arroyo last week look like Sandy Koufax.

I think DOB hit it earlier when he noted that they pile up runs and hits with RISP in blowouts and then the offense totally shuts down.

By SR

August 28, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

Reminds me of a shorned lover, lamenting over and over again, “why did he/she leave me, why oh why?” It ain’t rocket science, the person left you because they didn’t care about you enough to stay!

Same with this underachieving team, why oh why did the Braves lose tonight! They lost because they aren’t good enough, that’s why!!! Got it?? Good teams don’t lose almost every game to the Reds. Good teams don’t lose to the Marllins period. Good teams don’t have pitchers who give away games in every manner imaginable. Good teams don’t have pitchers who give up four (or was it five) homers in a game . Good teams don’t let a pitcher go 4-4 at the plate to help lose a game. Good teams don’t choke. Good teams find a way to win. This is not a good team. Duh.

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Just a question….

Why did Orr go to LF when KJ is a decent outfielder and Orr is a decent infielder? Why?

By A-ville Ranger

August 28, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

Robert—- There is something seriously wrong with you.Go get laid or something…..anything.

By N8

August 28, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

Tex is putting up numbers that are unreal. He’s been as solid as one could ask for.

However, since we’ve pretty much stayed mediocre since he’s arrived, I surely hope we sign him long-term or Salty, Harrison and Andrus BOMB with Texas.

Because if not, in about 3-4 years that trade is gonna silly.

It’s too bad really. JS tried to help this sorry azz bunch of stiffs, by adding not only the BEST player available on the trade market, but quite possibly one of the best players in baseball. If we can sign him long-term, he IS a guy that you can build not only a lineup around, but a WHOLE team. VERY similar to a young Chipper Jones, IMO.

But leave it to a Bobby Cox led team to choke when it counts. At least they’re consistant.

Anybody realize that we are 12-14 now, with Tex in the lineup? Obviously with him winning player of the week, and being nothing short of stellar since his arrival, that record isn’t his fault. PERIOD.

But kinda funny that all the pundits had the Braves being the frontrunner for not only the wild card, but the NL East after that trade, and they not only haven’t done that, they are actually playing WORSE baseball since his arrival.

I find that to be funny. Well, not really. But laughing is a lot better than having to buy a new TV or remote control.

Remember those old foam bricks with your favorit football team’s name and logo on it from the 80’s that you could throw at your TV when you were mad?

I think I just found a NEW purpose for my foam Tomahawk. :-)

By TampaBrave

August 28, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

Daybed

And you can’t live on the past either. What is he doing in the present. I think he cost us 2 games last week because he can’t bunt. He upper cuts his swing and has no power. He was doing OK when he snuck up on other teams. Now, they have adjusted and the apparent lack of talent is catching up with him. There’s a reason he was playing in the minors.

By Ralph

August 28, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

Here we go again , Bobby Cox had to change the line- up. A line-up that won last night, he had to put Harris in who haven’t done a thing in 3 weeks. The Braves played in true form of their typical unpredictable indecisions, with Francoeur striking out 5 out of 5 and to top his perfect night shoot of his big mouth and get kick out which could have being the reason the Braves lost. Francoeur has got to learn when to swing for himself and when to for the team, with 2 strikes he has to protect the plate, cut down on his swing. At the pace he’s going he will soon set a new strike out record beating Andruw Jones old record. Bobby has to bench him for a game or so, just to rest him, he isn’t helping the team by striking out so much. This one was a manager lost. There is no way the Braves are going to come back, or even compete for the wild card, I don’t care who they get now, it’s to little to late.

By Shaun

August 28, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Todd A. We all saw you come on before this game and predict a “close loss following a big offensive outburst.” It’s easy to make predictions in hindsight, isn’t it?

Watching the clueless Braves fans who see it all happening and then cant figure out what is going wrong is pathetic

No one hides behind a computer and says stuff like this about people unless they have some sort of extreme insecurities.

I know exactly what’s going on. The Braves as a team are playing exactly like any reasonable person would expect. It’s just that other teams are playing a little better at this point and they can’t grab hold to a playoff spot.

Where were all these people in May or June? It’s funny how all these people come out at the end of the season. Hey, the baseball season starts in April and runs up until October. Where were all you people that want to now jump off a bridge earlier in the season?

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

“And with the extra innings we got to see 5 more Diet Pepsi Max commercials”

I absolutely loathe that Pepsi commercial with everybody yawning.It is sooooooo annoying.I can’t take it anymore, for the love of God…….

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave see my 10:21 post. Second time this year Cox has completely frigged up where to play guys when his bench is short. Almost like he doesn’t want to move KJ from second, no matter what. I think he may have it in his head the KJ is so fragile at his new position that he doesn’t want to chance moving him either to SS or LF for an inning or two.

By Robert

August 28, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

“Is it just me since I pretty much only watch the Braves, but do we complain and whine more than other teams?”

The team that explains it’s playoff flops and exonerates it’s manager of all responsibility for any poor outcomes by always blaming “bad luck” -

Their best hitter is on the record as complaining about how “unfayyyyur” the schedule was to the Braves

And then we note and b*** about the team not having any guts

Does it SURPRISE anyone that a team that cant, individually or collectively, accept responsibility for their failure (past and present)- that it whines and that when game get to gut-check time, they lose?

“We are playing well enough to win. We just arent winning” WAAAAAAAAHH

“I’ve never SEEN something so unlucky happen to a guy’ WAAAAAAAHHH

“The schedule is unfair” WAAAAAAAHHH

“That guy was troublemaker. And I;m just a pull hitter” WAAAAAAAHHHH

One time, I wanna hear “I f*** up, it’s my fault we lost this game” - and you know what, it should be coming from 26 guys EVERY TIME they lose - even the ones that had nothing to do with it - THOSE are the teams that WIN

By Either Orr

August 28, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

A simple question?

I know that 3-5 in the rotation is what it is. Don’t think there is anyone who will argue that 3-5 is not the main part of our problems. Of course 3-5 weren’t pitching tonight.

That being said…. other than 3-5… does this team have the talent to play better than they have this season? I mean is the talent really there, position players and all?

Your answer has to be yes or no. That simple. If the answer is no, then so be it. If the answer is yes, then why aren’t they playing better?

Hey this is big time, big boy sports. Professional sports last time I checked. Big money, big business. People generally have to shoulder blame for under performance.

So who is to blame if this team is under performing?

By Mark

August 28, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

Where is KC postive spin A@#!

I know he will find some way to come up with some positive crap about this team.

Francouer shut the hell up and hit the freaking ball! Dang!

By Robert

August 28, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

“The ONLY thing that would surprise me is IF one of our pitchers throws a perfect game through 9 innings and STILL loses because of errors!!! “

I read that, and just stared at it.

You mean, THIS is the guy who has been ridiculing me for questioning Cox.

The kind of man who knows so much about baseball that he doesnt even know the definition of a perfect game

BWAHAHAHAHA!

or should I say

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE hawwwww

By D

August 28, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Willie has the potential to only bring in a descent number 4. Play Diaz full time in left. You have to bring back AJ, he has saved as many runs or more as he hasn’t hit in this year. He is what I call a baby Brave and cannot leave a la Tommy G. Most important, BRING BACK LEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He did something right. Hurry and give the job to Terry.

By Either Orr

August 28, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun….been here all year. Just been getting shouted down by those who were convinced the Braves were on their way back to the promised land.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

Why wasn’t Kelly Johnson in left field. Didn’t he play it two years ago. Great job Bobby!

This team sucks!

They should just give up!

Why does Escobar bat behind that loser Andruw?

By N8

August 28, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“Would the Braves be better off today if they hadn’t made that trade? Quite possibly but they got an MVP-caliber season. And they didn’t give up any superstars.”

Are you F*CKING kidding me?

C’mon dude.

Adam Wainwright pitched 9.2 innings of scoreless ball, with 2 BB’s and 15 K’s, going 1-0 with 4 saves for last year’s WORLD SERIES WINNING CARDINALS.

Oh, yeah, btw…he’s 26 years old, 12-9 with a 3.86 ERA, and he’s pitched 163 innings this year.

Do you still think that it’s only “quite possible” that we’d be a better team with HIM in the #3 spot in the rotation, with it being set-up for him to be the ACE when Smoltz leaves, or worst case scenario the #2 if Hudson continues to do what he’s done this year?

Before you answer that with some stats of your own, I’ll give you Chuck James’ stats.

9-9, 136 innings, 4.22 ERA.

Sure. They’re pretty close. But from the number 3 spot in the rotation those extra 27 innings are HUGE. If you dis agree, then you either:

a) haven’t watched our bullpen get overworked this year.

and (or)

b) aren’t in the group of fans pining for James to go AT LEAST one inning longer in his starts. (James has started 25 games, Wainwright has started 26), so EVEN YOU can do the simple math that tells the person with “average smarts” that Wainwright averages another inning per start.

Just what the doctor would order for this bullpen.

Mark it down. Adam will win the Cy Young within 3 years, IMO.

He shoud still be on this team, if JS’s ego wouln’t have forcedd him to mortgage the future at the expense of his legacy as a GM.

LOT of talent has been “let go” in the last 5 years. MANY of the pitchers will be pitching in the post-season this year (or at least have a better shot than we do).

Maddux, Glavine, Marquis, Wainwright, HoRam (ok that was a joke).

Add to that the players that were let go in the Tex trade.

I said all along, I’d have the patience to watch Kyle Davies “develop” if we weren’t trying to win like JS says we are.

I’m NOT a season ticket holder, so I won’t sell my tickets off when I hear the words “rebuilding”. EVERY team needs to do it at some point.

For all the talent that’s come up, there has been some good ones traded. Imagine if the streak had ended the year JD was here. Sure we would’ve been bummed out. But so what. IMAGINE where this team would be with Wainwright NOW.

(sigh)

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

The single stupidest play of the entire year, ranking up there with the LaRoche bunt of the previous season, is Francoeur getting ejected in an extra inning game.

The Sniper took himself out.

I still can’t believe it. Unbelievable. I can’t frickin believe it. No excuse for that. Absolutely zero excuse. He better own up to the sheer stupidity of his actions. Doesn’t matter how bad the ump is, how frustrated he is, no excuse.

By N8

August 28, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

Hey Shaun, if you’re gonna rip Todd A. for using hindsight to predict things, AT LEAST give me credit for mentioning it last night.

Or do you only rip on people when it works to your advantage?

By JD

August 28, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

At least football season is close.

By Either Orr

August 28, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

I keep reading, “why wasn’t KJ in left?”

It wasn’t KJ not being in left… it was Frenchy getting chucked and Andruw calling off Orr when Orr was already there for the catch! Orr may not be an every day outfielder, but he makes that play easily! He was already there! He can catch a fly ball if he’s under it.

By rotgut

August 28, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

hey hey what s up everybody! Seems like ive been away from the blog for ages but i see the braves still cant play better than .500 baseball unfortunantly. I was out of the country with very little braves news for the last 6 weeks but i did hear about trading for Tex and was estatic! Ive seen about 5 games with him at 1st so far and its too embarassinb to comparing what he now brings and what we were stuck with at 1st(aka THOR)

But anyway can someone PLEASE answer me why the braves let go of Bob Wickman!! All i can find is Andrew saying he was a little b*** about being used in non-save situations. ARE WE EVEN GOING TO GET ANYTHING FOR HIM? I know i read something about a Wickman-Farnsworth trade and i was glad we didnt make it at the trading deadline. BUT i would rather have him than NOBODY. Is Soriano looking that dominant? I havent seen him since Ive been back but i know he looked awesome early on.

It just seems to me like if I was the GM (iwish) that i would rather have a fatass crybaby in our already weak bullpen (NOT TO MENTION OVERUSE!!!) than have another nobody fill the bp.

I know the true DOB Braves bloggers are friendlies. Can someone please tell me the direction of the team? ITS CRUNCH TIME PEOPLE!! AND IT SEEMS WE ARE GOING BACKWARDS

By Coach ( NAIL THE COFFIN SHUT AND LOWER IT)

August 28, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

Any last words ? Robert , Shaun , Lew , N8 , Grinch , Efrim , Bob , Jimmy…..anybody ? Dear heavenly father , we are gathered here tonight to commit this 2007 Braves team into the ground. Dust to dust , ashes to ashes , the baseball Gods bring promise of the hope for everlasting resurrection every third month of the year. This team gave us hope early on only to be humbled by the hated injury bug. The pitching demon reared his ugly head and dashed all thought any wild card dreams and our geriatric manager has lost his mind in grief. O baseball Gods , give us comfort in the long cold months of the off-season until the warmth of 2008 and spring training shall reinvigorate us all. Amen.

By Robert

August 28, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Let’s talk about something Cox does right - keeping clubhouse business within clubhouse walls

It is not allowable for members of this organization to badmouth their teammates (and seriously, hold off the exceptions to that for now)

So, no blaming each other

So far so good

But the key ingredient that must go with that, willingness to, nay, even desire to, accept personal responsibility, is totally lacking

So they arent taught to, and therefore dont, blame themselves

So who is left to blame? If you;re a Brave, who are you ALLOWED to blame?

Luck. Fate. Circumstance.

Now tell me, how CAN you motivate yourself to try and defeat these types of forces. Who can defeat fate?

And that is why the team goes town without a fight - why it rolls over and dies and accepts the outcome

And therein you have the philosophical flaw, for which, as field leader, Cox is responsible.

Couple that with his utter strategic ineptitude, and that’s why he IS the WORST baseball manager of all time

And to he” with all the players that love him and the baseball men and writers and pundits who laud them

By Todd A

August 28, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I’ve been here all year basically saying the same things I’m saying now.Nothing’s changed from my perspective. Boy, you sure are smart, aren’t you? You’re even smarter than our esteemed general manager who thought this team was good enough to make it to the World Series.You think he feels the Braves are about where they should be? Uh, no. Why did he got out and got the best player available in Teixeira? Oh, that’s right, he just wanted to trade 5 of the Braves top 20 prospects because he was reasonable (just like you) and he thought this team would play sub .500 ball for a month. Get over yourself. You’re condescending, and you’re boring. Your meaningless stats mean zilch to me.I have eyes. I know bad baseball when I see it.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Just an awful way to lose. And when we think no one can possibly have a worse game than Andruw did that 0-for-5, 5-K day in Boston, Francoeur tops him.

Because after striking out in the 11th inning, you’ve GOT to bite your tongue, knowing how your team can’t afford to lose you. No way you can argue in that situation, and I don’t care if he didn’t say what the ump thought he said. Gotta walk away, not get tossed.

Mark, I agree with you in a sense about having Orr in left instead of Kelly. But while Kelly does have a helluva lot more experience there, Orr played it some during the past couple of months at Richmond. Kelly hasn’t played out there since 2005, and wasn’t exactly a Gold Glover to begin with.

Just saying, I could see his reasoning on that move. Bottom line, Orr’s gotta call for the ball or get out of the way earlier if he wants Andruw to catch it. And even more bottom line, Francoeur can NOT get thrown out in that situation.

Terrible loss. You can’t strike out 19 times against the Marlins, and go 0-for-8 with runners in scoring position, and in back-to-back innings put two runners on with none out and fail to score, and expect to be in the playoffs.

They can still make it, but just too many bad losses stacking up to believe they’re going to do it. We’ll see. Maybe they’ll surprise us this weekend against the Mets. But I ain’t holding my breath.

By Gary

August 28, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Candor is not what Andruw was hired to provide…I would rather miss him for his stellar performance at the plate and on the field.

By Mark

August 28, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

N8 and Todd A, you guys aren’t pessimists. You are realist. It’s guys like KC who p** me off on this blog by being delusional about this team.

They continue to have hope for no reason. I mean Bobby has to be the stupidest idiotic manager I ever seen.

By N8

August 28, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

TenPaul

“Doesn’t matter how bad the ump is, how frustrated he is, no excuse.”

How’s the old saying go? The apple doesn’t far from the tree?

Yeah, I know. That saying was intended to be used when referring to kids and their parents. But Bobby is the “parent” in the dugout.

Monkey see, monkey do. Or as Robert would say, Donk…..oh never mind.

By Stanks

August 28, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

Where’s the little journalist jimmy smith still trollllling for sympathy???????????????????????

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

Either Orr, Andruw didn’t call off your boy Orr. Orr pulled back at the last moment, never called for it, just stepped back and deferred to Andruw, but didn’t get out of the way. You can’t possibly blame that on Andruw. if you are, you’re the only one who did from among the folks in the clubhouse, the writers and broadcasters I talked to, and the scout I rode down the elevator with after the game.

By gotigers72

August 28, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

That was pitiful. Couldn’t score more than one off a guy with a six ninety ERA. WTF is up w/Frenchy? All of a sudden he’s back to that undisciplined crap he showed last year. And he should know better than to say anything with that quick tempered Doug Eddings behind the plate. My lip reading thought Frenchy said “su*ks”, and that was all. Not enough to be tossed. Isn’t Eddings the guy that goaded Estrada into an almost fistfight a few years ago? In addition to being too quick tempered, he ain’t worth a crap at calling balls and strikes. All over the place. Called an especially high number of high pitches strikes. MLB needs to retire him. He’s the guy that blew the call in the WS a couple of years ago when Pierzynski swung and missed and Eddings said the ball hit the dirt, when it clearly didn’t. Ended up costing whatever NL team was playing the White Sox that game.

Why doesn’t MLB get rid of bad umpires? Ones that continually make mistakes, have hair temper triggers, couldn’t call a good strike zone if their life depended on it. {yeah, Joe West is quick tempered, but a dam* good umpire, especially behind the plate}. It doesn’t matter how bad they are, they just keep ‘em around. I guarantee you if Eric Gregg hadn’t gone on strike, he would have continued umpiring. And he was the worst of the worst. And Balkin’ Bob Davidson did go on strike, yet they let him back in, and he’s terrible.

I know umpires don’t usually cost a team a game, but Frenchy getting thrown out led to Pete Orr going to left, leading to Andruw thinking he had to catch everything from CF to the LF foul line. Pete was standing there ready to catch that ball, Andruw would have let the LF have it if it would have been Diaz or Willie. Therefore, Eddings redneck makeup could have very well cost the Braves that game.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave, saw your 10:30 or so post on Chipper. You posted that after his home run, right? Are you well?

What is it, you said shoulder first, then oblique? let me know so I can tell him tomorrow.

By ron bobbitt

August 28, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

rotgut you seem to know an awful lot for someone who knows so little

By TennesseePaul

August 28, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

For cryin’ out loud N8. Give it up. Wainwright was traded years ago. Get over it.

20 extra innings from Chuck James… So his arm would have fallen off around the All Star break instead of right now.
I’ll admit I wanted James to pitch deeper into games but once he hit the DL and the word came out that this happens every single season what are you gonna do? For James to pitch longer he has to pitch more efficiently. That is his own fault.

Rebuilding? What are you talking about?

By ref

August 28, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

gotigers72 if you want to know anything about umps ask MemphisUmp.

By Either Orr

August 28, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Frenchy getting tossed may be the DEFINING moment of the Braves season.

It is representative of a team that is frustrated and continues to find new and unusual ways to lose games.

By Double Deuce

August 28, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

Kind of a curious move to go to Villareal when Bobby did. The last time we were in this situation Bobby was saving Oscar as the last option out of the pen because he was the long guy. Where was Soriano? He had to be rested. Acosta has also pitched well and should have been availabe. No big deal really since the offense took the night off again, but I would have thought you would use the power arms while you could, we had three left and I doubt he was going to use Villareal more than one inning.

One more observation. This is still a very young team trying to learn how to win late in the season in must win games. I’m sure there is a learning process going on here that will pay dividends in the years to come, but it just looks as though they are trying a bit too hard.

I don’t care how young you are, Francouer needs some time off. The last few games have been an indication of a tired young man pressing way too hard to be a star. He will be one day, but only after he and the other younger players learn how to handle the pressure of playing for a playoff spot, and I’m sure this is one game Jeff Francouer will never forget.

By ijonathan

August 28, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

DOB I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt of perhaps not seeing all of Chipper’s at bats up close on television, although I’m sure you have one at your disposal during the game. If you didn’t see Chipper wince, grimace and have obviously uncomfortable swings tonight you’re as blind as a bat.

By David O'Brien

August 28, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, you’re a voice of reason. I’m with you on every time I read “rebuilding.” I have no clue what those few folks who always say that are talking about, or whether they’ve followed the Braves long, or what. One, it’s not college football, and it’s not a small-market team. There isn’t going to be a “rebuilding phase” necessary or undertaken any time soon, and certainly not while Cox and Schuerholz are near the end of their careers here.

Secondly, they have two 23-year-old regulars at catcher and right field, a rookie who’s probably going to take over at shortstop, a 27-year-old at first base next season — that’s HALF of the positions, and then you’ve got Chipper coming back at third base for at least one more season, and guys like Brandon Jones and Lillibridge waiting in the wings. Enough with the “rebuilding” nonsense. That’s just silly.

By Cotton G

August 29, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

If Andruw really spoke the truth, he would say “I suck this year, and I’m a rally killer. Hudson should bat for me on his off nights.”

By uga-brave

August 29, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

this game falls on harris and francouer. if the brave have a kangraoo court francouer should get a max fine.

francouer, the great, not only k’d five times he did the unthinkable, you cant get tossed arguing balls and stikes with no outfielders on the bench.

been saying this for a while, indivdually the braves are a good team, but collectively they are flawed. no way should this team K 19 TIMES IN A GAME. THE MARLINS ARE THE WORST DEFENSIVE TEAM IN BASEBALL, PUT THE BALL IN PLAY.

there are a lot of selfish players on this team, and francouer is working his way toward the top. besides the three run homerun he hit against perez in new york i cant remeber a hit he has got to change a game lately. TODD A said it earlier it is not just about you MR. PARKVIEW. besides his very good throwing arm i think there are about 15 right fielders, in baseball that are better. i know there are a lot of people that might disagree with that, but he is in the top ten in plate appearances with what i would call merely average production.

this being said he does have very good numbers against D-TRAIN so i expect he will be in the line up tommorow.

i think for a lot of us college football cant start too soon. watching this every night kinda makes me wish THE VIEW was on at night.

By Either Orr

August 29, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this

DOB

Either Orr isn’t representative of being a Pete Orr fan.

Funny thing DOB it sounds like the typical “don’t throw anyone under the bus” thing from the clubhouse….. unless you are Andruw throwing someone else under the bus.

Dave… I suggest you watch the replay on TV if you get the chance. While Andruw was maybe 20 yards away from where the ball landed, the closeup showed Andruw calling for the ball while not even that close to where it landed.

If you don’t believe me, then tell Joe Simpson he’s a liar to…ok? He was confirming what I said as the reply was showing. Hell he was the one who pointed it out on the replay! Of course Orr stepped out of the way for Andruw to make the play….Andruw had been calling for it since it left the bat!!!

So I suppose you talked to Simpson to huh? Be hard for him to deny it since it’s on tape along with his commentary pointing out that Andruw is calling for it.

Like I said Davey ole’ boy….go call Simpson a liar..ok? I’m sure you’ll see him tomorrow! And that scout you rode the elevator with….guess he watched the replays on TV to huh? Did you just come out and say, “hey scout……did Andy screw up?” Do you just hunt random scouts after the game and say, “can I quote you on that even though I’m not going to say who you are anyway?”

Give me a break!!!

By N8

August 29, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this

TennPaul

“For cryin’ out loud N8. Give it up. Wainwright was traded years ago. Get over it.”

I’m very OVER the fact that Wainwright is not here. I was responding to Shaun saying there wasn’t any supestars given up in the trade on our half.

A person would NOT be considered to be thinking out of line by saying that Wainwright has outperformed JD the last 2 years, not? Imagine if Wainwright had an “out” clause in his contract like JD did this past off-season how much money HE WOULD MAKE on the open market.

That’s all I was saying.

*”Rebuilding? What are you talking about?”

What, you like this rotation? Are you gonna like it in 2 years when Smoltz is gone or less effective? Not to mention when Hudson’s salary goes WAY up, which means he better perform at this level (or higher), or people will be on him worse than they are Mike Hampton.

You don’t think this pitching staff needs a complete overhaul?

I suppose if you were in charge of the Diamondbacks, you would’ve held on to Schilling and Randy, right?

Face facts. We are a mediocre team (for two years running now, in fact actually under .500 at 147-148), that has been “in” the race, but realistically out of it, in July (based on how we play - not the standings), I mean, COME ON, imagine this team for the last month WITHOUT Teixeira. YIKES.

If JS would just come right out in February and say. Hey. We want to win. But we’re gonna let the kids get their feet wet a little bit. NOBODY (other than people who don’t get it) would be upset by that. NO PRESSURE to win on the kids, means NO PRESSURE by the fans expecting them to win.

Or have you all forgot that Glavine, Avery, Smoltz and the ENTIRE Tigers staff (other than Kenny Rogers)were given the opportunity to FAIL, in order to learn how to win?

Why do we hate on guys like Davies, James, Devine, Thorman, Langerhans, Woodward, Orr, Wilson, etc…?

Because in the offseason JS tries to pass them off as “viable” replacements for guys that have moved on (and taken their winning ways with them). Well, that and most of them SUCK, or haven’t shown much promise up here.

THAT is what I mean by rebuilding. Why not call it rebuilding, and let us be excited (like 91) when the kids put it all together, and the roster is sprinkled with some veterans to lead the way, rather than try and put on this facade that we can overtake the Mets and fend off the Phillies with this rotation?

Anybody that knows my posts, knows that is how I feel. JS wouldn’t hurt my feelings if he came out in the winter and said that due to payroll restraints, and lack of prospects ready to be stars, it might be a rebuilding/retooling year. But he has to try and be a salesman and say how he thinks we’ve built a club that can take us deep into the post-season.

Really? With guys like Buddy, Lance, Chuck and Jo Jo leading the way. Hmmm. Had me fooled, I guess.

Now, having said that, I LOVED the moves to shore up the bullpen with Gonzo and Soriano (along with retaining the fat grumpy old man). So he tried. But that rotation. To pin all of your hopes and dreams on Hampton. YIKES.

Sad thing is, he’ll probably do it again this off-season.

By loser

August 29, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

The negative vibes: what to do with Rocco Baldelli? He’s locked in at $2.25MM for ‘08. Then he’s got a $6MM club option with an unfortunate $4MM buyout for ‘09. The 2010 and 2011 options ($8MM and $9MM) must be exercised together and come with a $2MM buyout. Baldelli seemed ready to break out after a strong 92 game stint last year. But this season has been completely lost to injuries. B.J. Upton now owns center field, leaving Baldelli to share DH with Jonny Gomes if he can take the field.

I don’t see how the Rays can trade Baldelli until he puts together a couple of healthy months to start 2008. That’d probably be at the expense of Gomes unless an outfielder is injured. Hindsight being 20/20, the Rays should’ve taken what the Braves were offering back in December.

We were offering Salty and/or Yunel and Davies for this guy! HOLY SH*T

By David O'Brien

August 29, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

ijonathan, i did see his at-bats, although not the up-close shots on TV in most cases because I’m watching the game on the field while trying to write a game story that’s changing rapidly at that point. I did see him hit a two-run homer. If he can hit two-run homers while hurt, he’ll keep playing in a pennant race.

Guys are dinged up. Chipper’s had a bad groin. If he’s got a bad shoulder, he hasn’t said. Relax. Sorry if I can’t help you with tomorrow’s fantasy-baseball lineup.

The issue did NOT come up in the postgame clubhouse, and if you can’t understand why it wouldn’t, then there’s not much hope.

And when I asked Chipper before the game how he felt, if he was OK and gonna play, he said he was fine. Cox said he was fine.

If you want I’ll just agree with you that his shoulder’s hurt before he even tells me. How’s that? And why on earth do you care right now about the health status of the guy who hit a two-run homer to force extra innings? No bigger concerns? Geez.

By N8

August 29, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

DOB

Since you decided to jump in on the “what’s rebuilding” question of TennPaul’s, I hope my last post talking about the pitching staff needing to be “rebuilt” clears it up for you.

I’m well aware of the fact that our team is VERY young in average age, as far as regulars go.

But our pitching staff in general is NOT. The average age of our pitching staf currently on the 25 man roster is 30 years old. NOT YOUNG. And that is with Ascanio and Reyes who are both under 23. Average age of our Rotation right now? 31 years old.

Average age of the Arizona Diamondbacks pitching staff? 27 years old.

As I stated. Some how or another our rotation/pitching staff needs to be REBUILT.

Preferably with arms that don’t fall off in May.

By TennesseePaul

August 29, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

Nathan, if you want to call it “rebuilding” so that when they succeed you can feel extra warm and fuzz, fine. But the term still does not apply.

Two years from now when Smoltz is resigned and still dominating, I’m certain some other pitcher will be in the mix to make things happen.

Re-read that post again and I’m still baffled. Are you complaining because JS didn’t make a particular statement in FEBRUARY about what to expect from this team?

What’s the point. I’ve got a cold crew sitting with me ready to digest some tunes.
Francoeur…. (shaking my head) The sniper took himself out. Un-f-cking-believable.

By fastasballs

August 29, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

I have no doubt this team has enough talent to make some noise if they could actually make the post season.

I think there are several factors contibuting to this team’s poor performance since May. Here’s my top reasons holding the team back from having a record more indicative of their talents.

1) The single biggest factor I believe has been the poor decisions made by Cox virtually all season. He overused the pen, granted the starters were bad for a while, but repeatedly using 5-6 pitchers in blow out losses/wins early & in the middle of the season is asking for trouble down the road. Of course that’s what occured mid to 3/4 season, while the starters came around as a whole, a tired bullpen blew game after game. Sticking with slumping players is a trait of loyalty, but also at this level of sports it’s as much a negative as a positive.

2) Lack of another effective starter. This could have been overcome with better execution in other areas of the game.

3) Leaving the bench in tatters all season. The bench wasn’t bad when they had Salty, Franco, Prado, Diaz/Harris, & Escobar/KJ, but since Salty was traded, Edgar hurt & the decision to keep Thorman instead of Franco when Tex arrived & an additional pitcher have depleted the bench. Woodward, Thorman, Miller, Orr & Diaz/Harris won’t get it done & even worse than that the best of the bunch, Diaz is usually the last to hit.

4) Lack of execution, i.e. bunting, fielding & baserunning. They are horrible as a team at fundamentals & the Mets are not. This reflects poorly on Cox as well because not being prepared for all facets of the game ultimately relies on the manager & coaching staff.

5) Andruw having the worst season of his career. I would have ranked this higher had the offense not been spectacular with or without him. Of course Cox leaving him at the clean up spot for 2 months longer than any other manager would have, effected the team much more than had be just batted 7th after May or early June.

6) Bad free agent signings. Woodard, Redman, Sturtz, & Wilson all add up to a wasted 8-10 million dollars. They wouldn’t give Duane Ward another 100K or whatever it was, but pay these guys for basically making the team worse. JS has had great success in the past at signing players from the scrap heap & have them pay HUGE dividends, but his luck ran out, well actually it began to run out several years ago with Jordan & Mondesi.

7) Counting on Mike Hampton to be productive. Granted with the payroll constraints they couldn’t exactly go get Zito or anyone else for that matter, but following his injury & Cormier’s they rushed out to sign Redman.

8) Gonzalez going down to injury & being stuck with Thorman until August 1st. I do think this trade will pan out, Lillibridge is what will make the trade IMO. Gonzalez will be under the Braves control few a while so even if he doesn’t pitch next year he may contribute later on.

All of this equals a near .500 record. Teams are not beating the Braves, they are doing it to themselves. How many games since the All Star break have been blow out losses or games you knew the Braves had no chance say after the 5th? The intangibles seperate this team from the elite NL teams more than a starter is, IMO.

I still have not given up hope although without a win tomorrow & 2 of 3 from the Mets I don’t see a lot of light at the end of the tunnel.

I wish Cox would make this his last season. I’m not bashing him or trying not to, but the atmosphere of this team needs changing & without him gone it’s not happening. It’s like these kids like Frenchy, McCann, KJ & now Escobar come up here with some real fire to them & within a year or so their energy is zapped. Not physical energy, more emotion & the love of the game seems gone from their faces. Tex & Escobar have some fire to them, but they are no match for the crushing blow of Atlanta Braves “business as usual” baseball mentality that engulfs all raw emotion & kid like excitement it encounters.

Sorry this was soooo long.

By N8

August 29, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this

For anybody that cares, here is a link that lists the average age for MLB rosters, among other breakdowns.

We are higher on the list, than I thought we’d be (11th) in youngest average age (28.3).

mlb rosters

By Ron

August 29, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this

Robert P!ss off dude!!! I meant NO HITTER!!! Im sure most on here probably figured that also, thats why they did not comment!!! But a Donkey lover like you just had to say something!!! How is those Beastity movies going? You know the Humans and the Donkeys goin at it!!! You know your favorite PORNS!!! IF you read SOME of my posts I have agreed with you about BC losing his DAMN mind THIS year!!! Not gonna agree with you on PAST years, but I do agree THIS year!!! But I guess you dont read all of that do you smartass?

By uga-brave

August 29, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

look this game was not lost in extra innings. the braves lost this game, like so many others, with their failure to execute early in this game.

anyone dont think we miss renteria in the two-hole every night? kinda ironic that we have really struggled since he went down.

as for passion, IF YOU CANT GET FIRED UP TO WIN A GAME WHEN YOUR 40 YEAR OLD ACE IS BEGGING TO PITCH ON THREE DAYS REST, YOU DESERVE YOUR FATE. 19 ks flat out unacceptable.

fat lady has had the mike for a while, methinks she just might start singing on labor day

By Degas

August 29, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

We could have had Matt Morris at the deadline…and just how is ownership to balme for Druw’s BA and subpar year? I liked that ownership spent the bucks on Texeira and Dotel—so it isn’t the $$$, its where they were spent, no?

By Eric C.

August 29, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

It’s the S.O.S. with this team…offense goes ice cold in late innings. Blame it on Francouer if you want, but does anyone really believe the Braves were going to pull it out anyway? Losing games late and inconsistent offense are what comprise the mental make-up of the Braves.

The reality is setting in…it’s not in the cards this year. After a 24-12 start, the Braves are playing sub .500 ball. That is the reality.

By A-ville Ranger

August 29, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

DOB ——This team doesn’t need to be rebuilt.In fact we’re two years into that process (practically).We are short a few players though and it seems maturity has a ways to progress as well.The young core is very good and this pathology of losing to bad teams and not getting the clutch hit, I’m guessing is just part of the growing process….at least I hope so.

By Braves Fan 79

August 29, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

Yea this season sucks, no way the Braves shouldnt be one of the top 5 teams in the NL. We find new ways to loose everynight. And once again Bobby proves hes a TERRIBLE EXTRA INNINGS MANAGER!! I agree with whoever said earlier that loosing pat corrals might of been worse than loosing mazzone. I hope next year we at least get someone on the bench to help cox with game time decisions.

By This and That

August 29, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this

Should the Braves not make the post season again this year by my recollection 22 of the players on the current roster have never played in the post season for the Braves and 20 of those have never played in a post season game for any US major league team. Our team doesn’t know how to win close games and that only comes with experience. That is the experience of winning close games not the experience of losing close games. Winning is a habit, finding a way to win is a habit and, unfortunately, losing the close ones can become a habit. In years to come these baby Braves MAY be playoff contenders but it’s obvious they are not ready for prime time yet. I know this is killing Smoltz, Chipper and Andrew but life is what it is. AJ could have helped a lot if he had a normal AJ year, but he hasn’t and that is the way it is. In past years we heard the Braves don’t retool they reload. Next year will be a retooling year for the pitching corp. I hope these young Braves stay here together, I hope Tex decides he wants to be a part of the next group of contenders in a Braves uniform, I hope AJ stays and gets back to the form that we’ve seen for many years and, lastly, I hope JS puts together a pitching staff that leads the league in era again. Let’s forget talking ad nausism about the post season and learn to win…everything else takes care of itself when that happens. Finally I had to laugh at JF raging about being called out on strikes when he swings at anything between the dugouts. The guys that keep mouthing off to the umpires should just shut up. We don’t need the rep of being the worse cry babies in the league. Good breaks come with good players who make good plays. JF, Tex and McCann may need a day off just to take a breath and regroup.

By GeorgetownKid

August 29, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand those who purport that the Braves are “rebuilding.”

A “rebuilding” team intentionally plays younger players with significant upside with the hope of reaping future returns at the expense of immediate returns. How and when have the Braves done this?

With the unique exception of keeping Thorman instead of Franco, when have the Braves fielded an inferior young player with large upside as opposed to an older player who might help them win in the short term?

Just because a team isn’t very good doesn’t mean they are “rebuilding.”

I have been a consistent defender of this team but they are playing pretty bad ‘ball right now. But, in no way shape or form are they “rebuilding.”

The only argument offered by advocates of this strange view is that the Braves aren’t winning. How, exactly, does this equate to “rebuilding.”

By N8

August 29, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

TennPaul

What I’m saying is that for so long, I’ve trusted JS (you know, as the best GM in the universe) not to lie to the fans, for the purpose of selling tickets.

MANY other teams make statements when they go “younger” with their roster that they “wanna see what the kids can do”, or the classic “going in a different direction”.

Our GM has chosen to complain about fiscal restraints, and wants us to believe that he really believed that this team was built to win it all.

I’m a KC Chiefs fan. Herm Edwards just made the choice to go with Damon Huard over Brodie Croyle as the starting QB. Why? Because GM Carl Peterson stated on HBO’s Hard Knocks that they’re gonna start the QB that “gives them the best chance to win the superbowl”.

WHAT? Find me a Chiefs fan ANYWHERE that believes this team is going to the superbowl with EITHER of those guys. Again. A GM that is afraid to strip it down and start over. So rather than let Brodie Croyle take his lumps (which he will) and get them out of the way, they’re gonna delay the inevitable one more year (more like week 6 or so, my guess), because Damon Huard gives them a better chance to win the superbowl? Well I guess technically 1 in a million is better odds than 1 in a billion, right? Maybe that’s what he meant.

Anyhow, my point is that if the Chiefs go with a you QBOTF, most fans of that franchise would see the bigger picture, and put up with the ups and downs.

Just like Braves fans did from 1987 to 1990. Anybody that had watched the HORRIBLE pitching in the mid-80’s could see that help was on it’s way.

Now what if Bobby (as GM) would’ve stated in the Spring of 88 that we think we’ve got the right team on the field to win it all? Those players would’ve caved to the pressure. Why didn’t he do/say that? Because they were young and inexperienced. No sense in placing extra pressure on them, right?

Well nowadays, you hear things like “winning tradition” and the “Braves way”. OK. Fine. We ALL remember when the team was SUPPOSED to win with an all-star at every position.

But this CORE of this team, hasn’t won ANYTHING. Worse yet, is that Francouer, McCann, Hudson, and Davies when he was here, were guys that GREW UP BRAVES FANS watching the 90’s teams.

That is a LOT of pressure to live up to, much less having your GM say that we think this team should do very well.

Why not just let them play, and call it what it is?

Which is a very young team, that has not learned how to win yet, with a lot of promise, but one that has played a game under .500 since the beginning of the 2006 season with this “young core” of players leading the way. Last time that happened?

You got it. 1989 and 1990.

As for your question of would it make me feel warm and fuzzy? Nope. I’ve known in my heart, based on what my eyes saw, what this team was since June. I’ll feel the same way whether JS says what he thinks or not, if this core of players ever gets to the world series.

But I think the young guys, especially the young pitchers would do better creating their own identity, rather than living in the shadow of the big three.

Unfortunately, until Smoltz is gone, that might never happen. As long as he’s still here, those questions/comparisons will never die.

Ask Boston Celtic fans who they compare their roster to.

Our pitchers are doomed until enough time has passed to let people stop comparing. Hell, for two years, Hudson even seemd intimidated by it. And he was part of a pretty “big 3” himself.

It’s gonna take the right group of guys. Right now, I’m afraid we don’t have them.

Someday.

Maybe after we REBUILD our pitching staff. :-)

By fastasballs

August 29, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this

This & That Smoltz, Hudson Chipper, Andruw, McCann, & Frenchy have played in the post season for Atlanta. I can’t recall if KJ was on the DL or not when they played the Astros. You can also add Julio to the list once the rosters expand on Sept 1st

Maybe their problem is their last memories of the post season include that 18 inning disaster that ended the post season for them in 2005.

By rotgut

August 29, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this

By the way DOB thanks for the Stipe lyrics

By N8

August 29, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

fastasballs

“It’s like these kids like Frenchy, McCann, KJ & now Escobar come up here with some real fire to them & within a year or so their energy is zapped. Not physical energy, more emotion & the love of the game seems gone from their faces. Tex & Escobar have some fire to them, but they are no match for the crushing blow of Atlanta Braves “business as usual” baseball mentality that engulfs all raw emotion & kid like excitement it encounters.”

ASESOME point. Very well said. They’ve succomb to the pressure of living up to the past. Doesn’t seem to be as many smiles on their faces does there?

Degas

” I liked that ownership spent the bucks on Texeira and Dotel—so it isn’t the $$$, its where they were spent, no?”

I was thinking the same thing. Andruw wants to blame ownership for not getting more pitching. I wonder what kind of pitching we could’ve got for him before he became a 10/5 guy last year? That would’ve done the trick, not?

He would rather blame the dollars, rather than look at himself and say: “hmmm. I cost the team a LOT of money, I’m gonna ask for even MORE next offseason, and oh, BTW I’m having the worst season I’ve had since my first full season in 1997. Wonder if I’M THE PROBLEM?

Apparently 13.5 million dollars STILL isn’t enough money to purchase any mirrors for his house. Because as much as we all know the pitching is flawed, if Andruw is having a season similar to years past, even with this horrendous pitching, we’d have around 10 more wins.

And if you disagree, with that, then you have just made the argument that going from a guy who might finish with 25-30 HR and around 85-105 RBI to a guy who hits 45 HR and has 130 RBI is NOT worth the extra money.

Which is it?

Andruw Jones is the poster boy for what went wrong this season.

PERIOD. He can make up whatever excuses makes himself feel better when he signs that big contract this winter.

By Ron

August 29, 2007 1:03 AM | Link to this

This and That Dude you are dead Wrong!!! Chipper, McCann, KJ, Renteria, Harris, Diaz, Andruw, Frenchy, Smoltz, Devine, Hudson!!! Dude that is 11 guys that have been to the postseason!!! McCann and them went in 2005 as the Baby Braves!!! Get your facts together dude!!!

By GermanBravesFan

August 29, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this

Robert: GET A LIFE!!!… or get back to the stable and play with your donkies!

By GermanBravesFan

August 29, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this

Robert: GET A LIFE!!!… or get back to the stable and play with your donkeys!

By GK

August 29, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

This blog is full of arm-chair GM’s that believe that their hindsight rantings makes them something special. And others that are still crying over the Wainwright deal???? How many years has that been now????

I guess that some bunch will be singing the blues over the Tex trade, especially if he is not resigned, which he probably won’t.

But never fear, if we don’t make moves to win, then the same folks are probably complaining that management is not doing enough to win.

And who is this Robert person??? Is he a joke, or what? Hey Robert, if you want to see the joke, look down…..oh, I better not!

It looks like Shaun is the lone voice of reason on here, and everybody else is a self appointed know it all!

OK gang, all at once, hold the right hand up to your forehead in the form of an L and say, “I am a loooooossssseeeeerrr!”

go to bed

By A-ville Ranger

August 29, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

N8 Man you think about this s** too much….way too much….and still your conclusions are mostly nonsense….night all, that includes you and Robert N8.

By CC Rider

August 29, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

Calling all BRAVES FANS! The season officially ended tonight. The only points of interest left to discuss is what went wrong and how to fix it by next season. My viewpoint on what is wrong is as follows: the obvious is the PITCHING! This includes both starting and bullpen. Smoltz and Hudson are givens. James, Reyes, Cormier and Hampton are question marks. The last month of this season should help give us a better perspective on Reyes and Cormier. James needs to quit working for Lowes Home Improvement during the off season and put some serious time in at the gym to get stronger, as well as, time with Minor League pitching GURU, Guy Hansen (for those that don’t know, He is the pitching coach at AA Mississipi and is the person that pitchers are sent to when they are out of synch. A personal note here: I DON’T KNOW why he wasn’t promoted to the major league job instead of hiring ROger McDowell but that is a story for another day). James needs to learn from the results Tim Hudson showed this year by agressively working out in the winter and a third pitch to keep batters honest.Hampton is an unknown and must be treated as such. So, we 2 starting pitchers going into 2008 and 4 question marks ???? What to do? Some options are sign Tom Glavine or Carlos Silva or take a flyer on Matt Clement or Kris Benson. Maybe a trade for a Joe Blanton or a Noah Lowry. Whatever happens we need 4 sure starters the to start the season and then pick one from Hampton, James, Reyes or Cormier. The last 3 all have minor league options left, so for a change we might have depth in this area. THE BULLPEN: Yates gone, Villareal gone. We have a large group of young very good to special relievers ready. Acosta,Ascaino, Schreiber, Nix, Moylan, Devine,Ring, Boyer,Stockman, Medlin and Jung. Gonzalez, Soriano, Dotel and Mahay are the only 3 vets to consider keeping or in Soriano’s case including in a trade for a starter. If you look at the past 3 months Wickman, Yates and Soriano have been the most responsible for the bullpen failures. GO YOUNG! The Lineup: Chipper, McCann, Texiera and Franceour, Diaz are no-brainers. The big Question is what to do with Escobar and CF? This is strictly my personal viewpoint: I think we have to many swing and miss hitters. We need more hitters like Escobar and Renteria that can put the ball in play. No more Andruw, Willie Harris. Diaz shares LF with Brandon Jones. Centerfield we either go cheap and try Brent Lillibridge (All-Star CF first 2 years in college, has speed and a strong arm, a base stealer with some pop or we go big after Rowand or Hunter. The big surprise is I think we should trade Kelly Johnson, Like we did Laroache at the height of his value for a young starting Pitcher and keep escobar and renteria. Last but not least the BENCH: B.Pena at catcher, Aybar (If he recovers) at 2b and 3b. B. Jones in LF and a couple of vets like Mike Lamb. I feel we would have a deep rotation, a young hard throwing pen, a lineup that could hit for power, but also make better contact and a bench that can hit. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

By AZBravoFan

August 29, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

Congrats Bravos! They are now officially further out of the wildcard race than on this date last year.

By GK

August 29, 2007 1:19 AM | Link to this

N8, you are correct. Andruw Jones is the #1 reason for this teams failure. If he were performing normally, then the pressure would have been off of Francour and McCann all season, and they would have probably done better. There would have been little pressure on Thorman to perform, and he might have done better. I suspect he still will be a decent firstbaseman for someone next year. Also, if Andruw would have had his normal year, then Salty could have been traded for a decent pitcher. This is a big maybe, as pitching was WAY overpriced in July. But, the reasons for getting Teixiera would not have materialized, and Salty probably could have been packaged for one of the White Sox pitchers, maybe Vazquez, who would have been just what the doctor ordered.

Agree/Disagree?

By uga-brave

August 29, 2007 1:19 AM | Link to this

fastball,

great 12:26 post agree with almost everyhing you said

i however will be and will always be a bobby cox supporter. with the exception of a game or three, i just dont see how this season falls on cox. this guy only expects players to play hard and not make mental mistakes. how many times have the braves not executed the most basic fundamnentals? how many times have the brave been able to score a run from third with less than two-out? how many times have our 3-5 starters dug us a big hole? how many times have we scored a couple of runs in an inning only to see our pitcher walk the leadoff guy in the next half inning? look everyone wants to blame someone, and predominantly on this blog it seems to be COX, but this season aint on him.

blame on this team should be shared collectively, as individuals the starting 8 plus platoon are having good years sans andruw. for whatever reason when the game is on the line late, we just spit the bit.

SMOLTZ said early in the season when we were winning a lot of games late ” this is kind of a dangerous way to win every night.” no truer thing has been said.

By LEO

August 29, 2007 1:21 AM | Link to this

DOB

Hopefully you’ve seen the replays now that showed Andruw calling for the ball all the way. Also, Chipper appeared to be in immense pain after a swing in his final at bat. You shouldn’t jump all over bloggers before knowing the facts. That seems kind of strange to write since….you were at the game!

By GK

August 29, 2007 1:29 AM | Link to this

CC Rider: I like some of your ideas. I am not as down on Yates as you seem to be. At times, he looked absolutely unhittable.

I also LOVE our young pitching talent. Good points on the rotation. I am not sure that putting Escobar at second is the way to go though, as he is much more suited for SS. Could you trade Edgar instead of KJ. I am not leaning either way yet.

As for Lillibridge, if not in CF, then let him play the role that Escobar played this year. Bench and backup guy for 2b and SS?? BUT if the man can handle it let him and Blanco battle it out for centerfield. Or, pick up a guy like Ryan Church or someone to take it until Schafer is ready.

I also like Lowry, but I also like Vazquez and Silva. You are right though, I am going to boycott Lowes if Chuck James doesn’t quit there this winter.

By GermanBravesFan

August 29, 2007 1:33 AM | Link to this

GK: nice assessment on Robert! Glad to see someone says something…

By Vonshawn

August 29, 2007 1:33 AM | Link to this

As a Braves fan, nothing would have pleased me more than seeing this year’s team compete for the championship. Lord knows the NL is wide open and the contending teams in the AL are all flawed.

But, I have been following baseball long enough to realize that this team just doesn’t have “it”. They want it. Some nights they even show flashes of it. But in the end, their record is a true reflection of what this team is - just slightly above .500; just slightly above average.

And DOB, I see the standings and yes mathematically we are still in the Wildcard race, but come on. With SD staring to hit now, esp. with their pitching, coupled with the fact that we have three other teams in front of us, there is no freaking way the Braves make the playoffs.

It’s time to start the “thank you for some great memories” campaign for Andruw. In all liklihood this is his last year, and despite his down season, he has provided some great moments to Braves fans.

So let’s move past all the playoff talk and get the fans ready to send Andruw off right. And who knows, with our attention diverted, the boys just might make a run - dammit I’m just a fan to the end.

By Train Wreck Bystander

August 29, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this

Tonight’s ending was tough to watch.

I am not going to say the Braves are out of it - 6 games back of the Mets with 6 games left to play against the Mets is not hopeless. But a playoff appearance in any capacity is beginning to stretch the bounds of credibility.

But I will be in front of the tube every night, cheering them on.

C’mon guys, get it together. Win it all for Julio.

By uga-brave

August 29, 2007 1:48 AM | Link to this

vonshawn,

definitely agree with your point on andruw. if this is in fact his last year it would be a shame to continue to browbeat him.

the guy plays 162 every year banged up or not. just got a feeling some time next year we will be saying over and over again “andruw would of got that.”

By Todd A

August 29, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this

“Also, if Andruw would have had his normal year, then Salty could have been traded for a decent pitcher.”

GK, there was really not enough/if any quality starting pitching available at the deadline to justify trading a premier prospect like Salty.We’ll know in a couple of years whether or not we over-paid for Tex, but, if we were going to move Salty,we had to get someone of equal value.”B” list pitching prospects like Bronson Aroyo were all that were on the market.

By fastasballs

August 29, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this

UGA-Brave I don’t blame the season’s failure up until this point on Cox & like you I have always been a supporter of him. I’ve followed this team for 20 plus years, even more than my beloved Hokies. I’m just seeing a serious eroding of Cox’s abilities to manage this team as effectively as he once did. I don’t second guess every decision, but when the same bad decisions are repeated over & over with the same negative result something is not right, agree?

I’ve said many times on this blog there is something wrong with the entire team. They are emotionless as a team. Take last night for instance, McCann hits a grand slam that virtually assures victory & the greeting for him at homeplate seemed more appropriate for a funeral home reception than a pennant race.

Every other team in the race has a lot of emotion. Even guys like Jeter & Posada shows 10 times the energy & emotion the Braves do & they have become even more successful in terms of recent years than the Braves. What gives? Is Chipper & Andruw just boring guys? In the interviews I’ve read & seen of Chipper he says things that lead you to believe he is still full of desire. He’s taken less money to benefit the team as well. Who knows with Andruw, he’s too busy showing up at bars & doing Unique Auto cameos. I really won’t feel too bad when he moves on.

They just don’t seem to have a vocal field leader, maybe the rest are too young & since Chipper & Andruw are not really high energy guys they feel out of place trying to assert themselves.

I know this is not football & it’s impossible to maintain some high energy level throughout 162 games, but it would be nice to see some in these very meaningful games that will impact whether this team plays in October.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

August 29, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this

fastasballs,

Let me 2nd or 3rd the comments about your 12:26 Post. Dead on.

Just as an example to back up your example #1, by talking about Tony La Russa. Honestly, never really liked the guy, don’t know why, perhaps cuz he’s a lawyer? ;) But, over the years you start to realize he really has a baseball mind. One that isn’t predictable on EVERY single move!!! Has the pitcher bat 8th a fair bit. Sounds stupid, but the guys hitting 9th this year are hitting .292 they said on Baseball tonight. The pitcher,(Looper I believe) was up to bunt. Bunted foul. Strike one. Swung away on the next pitch, strike two. Then put the bunt back on with the fielders back a bit, and got down a sac bunt. Smart. Other team not expecting it, little less pressure on the pitcher since he doesn’t see guys 20 feet away trying to field his bunt.

He puts the hit and run on when down 7-2 the other day against the braves. Braves don’t expect that, and it works. Team still loses, but it’s good practice, and why feel like you can’t do something like that down 7-2? Don’t you still want to win the game???

Who the __ is pitching for the Cards? Wainwright, and…who? Looper? Their Reyes is what, 2-13???? No Chris Carpenter??? He’s their John Smoltz/Tim Hudson all rolled in one!! But, they survived. Does anyone think we would survive without Smoltz or Hudson??? Of course not. But, the Cards have a better chance to go to the playoffs than the Braves…and that is because of LaRussa’s brain…..

By Chop Chop

August 29, 2007 2:00 AM | Link to this

The Braves are 5 out in the WC and 6 out in the division, not to mention the loss columns (6 behind the Pads and 7 behind the Mets). This team would appear to be toast. There’s no fire coming from that clubhouse. None whatsoever.

By fastasballs

August 29, 2007 2:14 AM | Link to this

BERIGAN I’m in complete agreement about LaRussa. I can’t stand him either, but every year he changes his managerial style to suit his players. Torre & Leyland do as well.

A few other have mentioned this before, but Cox has lost virtually all of his bench coaches over the past 4-5 years. Pat C., Yost, Williams, Leo, etc. I think maybe we are all discovering how many decisions were made or influenced by former coaches, because I don’t recall past Braves teams being totally inept at doing the simple things to win games.

My friends laugh at me because when watching Braves games I can predict usually around 90% of what Cox’s next move is going to be & as I said before if I know, then every other manager knows as well, thus making their jobs a lot easier.

Knowing what was coming next would great if this were the Green Bay Packers of the 60’s running the sweep. Every opposing team knew it was coming, but they still couldn’t stop it.

By uga-brave

August 29, 2007 2:35 AM | Link to this

i think this is pretty much over now except for the crying, i think the braves learned a lesson that you cannot patchwork a rotation and a bench and expect to be consistent. when this season is over the facts will prove that indivdual statistics dont mean as much as certain intangibles. coming out of spring trainig the only thing you know is that you are gonna win 40 and lose 40, its what you do in the other 82.

the braves put a patent on learning how to lose close games. the only time they have won is when they score 7 or more, and lately they have lost some of those. i think they might have to really revluate ther expectations of a couple of players, and their overall make up of the roster. it would not shock me at all to see them make a big trade for a starter at the expense of their offense.

there is now way that they go into next season with smoltz, hudson, and praying that hampton makes a come back. to use a tired cliche pitching and defense never slump.

By uga-brave

August 29, 2007 2:45 AM | Link to this

fastblls,

one other thing they lost is a lot of their advance scouts. there is no more valuable thing than advance scouting. while this might sound miniscule in comparison to the big picture but tendencies late in close games win or lose a bunch of games.

I.E francouer’s inability to hit a high fastball or k.j.’s inability to hit a inside curve.

By A-ville Ranger

August 29, 2007 2:46 AM | Link to this

Fastaballs La Russa (whom I like) went close to 20 years between winning the WS.Leyland has never tried to sustain a program for any length of time.Torre has a payroll of 230 million or so and his team is as fu**ed up as this one.My point is while I agree with some points here and there you guys are way too one sided in your appraisals of BC as a manager.

By Serbok

August 29, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this

WOW GUYS Sounds like a morgue in hear? I’ve never been in a Morgue (Thankfully) However, I totally understand~ My Kool-Aid glass has one or 2 more hits left:o) However, I definitley see the paper bottom:o( Great thing about BB is, the end brings on the NFL;O) GO BUC’S! and of course the other thing is, we have an awesome offense! Maybe a lil extra money? Things look good for next year!!!!! I STILL have a cpl swallows of Kool-Aid left tho? :o) It AINT OVER YET!!!!!! GO BRAVOS!

By A-ville Ranger

August 29, 2007 3:02 AM | Link to this

I’m watching and listening to Charlie Rose chatting with author Bill Flanagan about music and much else.If any of you get a chance to catch a replay it’s great stuff. I highly recommend it to those who like such things.Well night all…really this is it.

By Serbok

August 29, 2007 3:18 AM | Link to this

uga-brave I put a LOT of this season on Mr Cox! I:E Mark Redmon, Langerhands, Pete Orr and Woodward, Yunel staying in the minors Waaaaaaaay to long? His handling (mishandling) of the bullpen? Wickman cut after Mr Cox steadfastly used him as the Closer? Didnt wanna hurt Wicky’s feelins? AJ hitting cleanup? Didnt wanna hurt AJ’s feelings? The Game that Most pizzes me off is the Marlins game, after Hudson had pitched 8 fantatstic innings? Brings in a contact pitcher (wickman) with runners on 2nd and third? refusing to play Diaz? Not gonna comment on Woodward and Orr again? Refusing to play Salty at first? (granted viable arguments on that one?) which I discount! As we did not have Tex at that time! Hit and Run? What the heck is that Bobby says? This is just off the top of my head! We should be playing right now for the division lead, IF Larussa were the manager! And I do NOT like Larussa! Face it? As was mentioned Bobby has lost his supporting cast? COACHES and Players of yesteryear? This Season falls on Mr Cox in my mind~

By Yars

August 29, 2007 3:33 AM | Link to this

Frenchy gets thrown out of the game, you move Diaz to RF, put Orr in LF, within minutes, a ball is hit to Left-Center, & drops. Couple minutes after that, Marlins win. Game over. Man, I didn’t see any of that coming. That pretty much sums up the Braves season. I guess you can’t help but laugh at this one. Meanwhile, the Padres beat the D’backs, & Phils beat the Mets. Only 29 games left. 5 back in the WC. 6 back in loss column. Got the Mets & Phillies after the Fish. All we can hope is, we beat the Fish later tonight, root for the D’backs winning the next 2 against the Padres, Mets beat the Phils, & this weekend, get lucky & win a couple over the Mets, while hoping the Dodgers win a couple against the Padres. With time running out, that’s how you got to start thinking. The odds of all that becoming a reality are slim to none. I think we’re at the point now, even if the Braves did go on some 6 or 7 game winning streak, teams like the Phillies, Padres, Dodgers need to lose. If we’re lucky, we’ll win tonight. Going back to the Ted after going 4-6 on this road trip.

By Serbok

August 29, 2007 3:35 AM | Link to this

N8 Enjoyed your 12:49 post! Pretty much right on man!

By Serbok

August 29, 2007 3:46 AM | Link to this

YARS You Hit the Nail on the head Bro’!

By Coach ( The Glavine fee agency question answered in full)

August 29, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this

Tom Glavine’s deal calls for a $7.5 million salary next year (2007) and contains a $9 million player option for 2008 that would become guaranteed if he pitches 160 innings next season, when he will be 41. The price of the option would increase by $1 million for each additional 10 innings up to a maximum price of $13 million. If the option isn’t exercised, he gets a $3 million buyout.

Glavine has the right to decline the option if it becomes guaranteed. He also gets a full no-trade clause. He currently has 162.3 innings pitched so far this season and 301 wins. Tom has hinted that should the Mets win it all in 2007 , he would probably retire.

By Braves Fan 79

August 29, 2007 4:34 AM | Link to this

Maybe its just not ment to be this year folks…but the # of bad subs, pitchers pitching at the wrong time wrong place, and refusing to dump 2 worthless utility infielders has really hurt this team as a whole. I bet smoltz and chipper are steaming behind the scenes that we have to rely on 2 TERRIBLE bench players in orr and woodcrap. Would any serious club like the Angels or yankees carry a career .200 hitter like woodward on it? NO! They would of relied on their youth and talent instead of washed up veterans (redmen, wilson) and veterans that were never any good to start with (woodcrap).

By Braves Fan 79

August 29, 2007 5:00 AM | Link to this

Why the Braves are where they are currently:
1: TIME WARNER! i hate them and hate AOL and will never have anything to do with any of their products again! 2: JS not swallowing his pride and signing Glavine back. Then goes out and gets a bunch of crappy veterans instead of relying on our talent in the minors.
3: Giving Redmen START after START even thou everyone knew he was total trash after his first start against the Mets. 4: Batting a .200 hitter cleanup most of the year….TERRIBLE! Andrew shouldnt even bat before Escobar. 5: Waiting so long to bring up Escobar and Salty….meanwhile relying on weak hitting woodcrap and orr time after time after time. Its really hard to win with 4 automatic outs in the lineup night after night. (orr, woodcrap, andrew, pitcher). 6: Bobby not playing the hot hand on offense, putting in the wrong pitcher at the wrong time (wickman (a flyball pitcher) in cinn).
Theres more i know but man im tired of thinking about this crap, this team and smoltz, chipper, deserve so much better than this and Bobby should be ashamed for his stuborness! Next year lets get a bench coach to make the decisions for Bobby and keep ol coach around as the head cheerleader.

By Marc

August 29, 2007 5:16 AM | Link to this

We need Carl Crawford, lol.

By Braves Fan 79

August 29, 2007 5:25 AM | Link to this

The most recent mistakes by cox: Giving Jo Jo these last 3 starts, WHY?? I bet Larussa looked at the lineup sunday and thought Bobby was joking. No AJ, woodcrap in for chipper, and giving jojo another start when everyone knows he needs more work in the minors. What happens? Ball goes under woodcraps glove…Ballgame! Not walking albert p. with 2 outs in extra innings the last time the Cardinals were in town. (why wouldnt u treat him like Barry Bonds of a few years back?) I gotta stop…this is unhealthy, the Braves r gonna give me a ulser. Theres way 2 many to name just in the last 15 games alone.

By Ralph

August 29, 2007 5:47 AM | Link to this

What good is Pendleton good for? What good is the pitching coach good for? and what in the world do you call the way Cox is managing? Going from a winning line-up to a loosing one, where is this man mined at, who is he listing to Pendleton?, goes he know that there are very few tomorrows? What in the world is Pete Orr doing back in the Majors??????? Does Francoeur need glasses?, he most he strikes out more than he makes contact. We know what Andruw needs, another team. Where is the general manager? does he have another book he working on and does he think that Teixeira by himself can save the Braves? I have notice that as the season goes on the Braves staff does less, or is it know less. I would like for the season to end tomorrow, the Braves are an embarrassment to baseball.

By Charlie

August 29, 2007 5:56 AM | Link to this

Tonight’s game…same old stuff…finding ways to LOSE. 1. Don’t get runs when Smoltz pitches. 2. Feast or famine hitting (13 runs Monday, 19 K’s Tuesday) 3. Oscar MUST give a run or two each outing (bad deal, especially on the road, in extra innings). 4. Strike out when game is on the line (we have a team full of those guys…Andruw though is king. By the way, Andruw should ask ownership how they feel about HIS contributions this year, or lack thereof) 5. Keep winning streaks confined to 1 game. 5. Allow Pete Orr to have a say in the outcome of a game. (The Braves bench strikes again.)

The 2007 joke season continues to play itself out. Just when you figure things can’t get any more wacked, the Braves show even more creative ways to lose.

To look on the brighter side, though, Wicky is chuckling.

When it’s all over, they can take their money and take the winter off.

By Ralph

August 29, 2007 5:57 AM | Link to this

Francoeur stroke four time’s, and on the fifth he try to blame the umpire. The umpire wasn’t batting. What Francoeur needs to to is to grow-up, and stop acting like a baby.

By Robert

August 29, 2007 6:06 AM | Link to this

“it’s not a small-market team. There isn’t going to be a “rebuilding phase” necessary or undertaken any time soon, and certainly not while Cox and Schuerholz are near the end of their careers here”

DOB talking out both sides of his Donk-kisser again. Cuz he has said we are a small market team when talking about free agents we couldnt afford

I dont get the second part of the comment. What would the stage of JS and Donk’s careers have to do with whether or not we rebuild? Or would the needs of JS and Donk outweigh the needs of the team?

Let me clarify. I dont think the team needs to rebuild, player-wise. They have a solid foundation. But if rebuilding WERE called for, it shouldnt matter a good gosh DARN what stage of their careers JS and Donk are at

By Robert

August 29, 2007 6:18 AM | Link to this

“with the exception of a game or three, i just dont see how this season falls on cox. this guy only expects players to play hard and not make mental mistakes”

The last time a Braves team played hard was 1993 (before the el-foldo vs the Phillies, of course)

And maybe Cox EXPECTS players not to make mental mistakes, but on the other hand, he TOLERATES it when they DO make mental mistakes far more than any other manager in baseball -

And he is responsible for some of those mental mistakes, because he doesnt teach or stress fundamentals.

Play for Cox and you dont even have to STRETCH. Just dont wear sunglasses on your ballcap during bp.

By Coach ( Obvious isn't it ? )

August 29, 2007 6:29 AM | Link to this

All I know is this : The Braves are in danger of their second losing season in a row. They last made the playoffs in 2005 , they last won a playoff series in 2001 , they last went to the World Series in 1999 and lost. They have not won it all in twelve years (1995)…….This is what is referred to as a clearly visible decline in team performance over the last decade of baseball under the management of both John Schuerholz and Bobby Cox.

By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////

August 29, 2007 6:29 AM | Link to this

I have mentioned this before, but why oh why do we only have 4 outfielders??? Do winning teams like the Cardinals(ok, the Cards are just now up to .500 but much closer to the playoffs, and won it all last year)Cubs, Red Sox, or Yankees…are they playing with only 4 outfielders??? No??? How come???

Do they know something Bobby doesn’t? Like having 2/3’s of your outfield try to play just about every single game is not smart for a playoff worthy team? Do they understand that somewheres during a 162 game season a guy might lose his cool for a minute and get tossed after you have used your one and only backup outfielder? Or what if Andruw and Frenchy ran into each other and both have to come out of the game, then what??? Thorman in Center?

Bobby thinks we simply HAVE to have 6 infielders no matter what(Even though it’s been shown Willie could work there in a pinch)

I’d love to know who is more at fault for keeping Thorman on when he will never start at 1st again this year. JS or Bobby. Cuz as a pinch hitter only, he has lost just about all his value, and no one will offer us anything for him. He will be DNF in spring training….but he at least we will all be saying he was here to help us in case Tex got hurt…..and to cool the fans down when he fanned.

By ssiscribe

August 29, 2007 6:57 AM | Link to this

Real quick one here, since I’ve gotta get some stuff done first thing this morning:

— Worst loss of the year, given the circumstances and the like.

— Can’t afford too many more of these.

— Frenchy, I love you man, but you gotta keep your emotions in check in situations like that. Your mouth cost us that game.

— AJ called for that ball to left. Just the fact he got his glove on it is something else. Anybody blaming him for that play doesn’t have a clue.

— Can’t blame Pete very much. He looked plum scared out there. Again, the blame’s on Frenchy.

— For that matter, EVERYBODY needs to quit whining about the strike zone. It was inconsistent again last night; deal with it and hit the damn ball.

— Smoltz looked good on short rest last night.

— Have to win tonight.

— Really need to sweep the Mets, but an 8-2 homestand (two of three against the Mets and Phils, sweep the Nats) is sorely needed.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By TampaBrave

August 29, 2007 7:17 AM | Link to this

TO DOB

Last night you wrote:

*TampaBrave, saw your 10:30 or so post on Chipper. You posted that after his home run, right? Are you well?

What is it, you said shoulder first, then oblique? let me know so I can tell him tomorrow.*

I know know you are a beat writer, but c’mon man, we all saw it. He hit a HR and that’s great, but something’s up. The first time I saw it on Monday, he did grab just below the shoulder, but last night he winced and grabbed his right oblique. I think you need to rectify this because your credibility is in question, at least by me.

BTW, just because a guy is injured doesn’t mean he can’t perform(See Kirk Gibson). It does show me that Chipper has the heart of a lion.

By ssiscribe

August 29, 2007 7:24 AM | Link to this

That’s what I get for writing in a hurry … need a 7-2 homestand, as there is an off day between the Phils and Nats.

Sigh … this ballclub has been something else to follow this year. And what of Oscar’s kicker quote at the end of O’B’s gamer? Oscar, I understand the frustration, but shut the hell up and pitch, dude. You don’t walk hitters in extra innings, plain and simple. Make them hit the damn ball.

OK, I’m really ill now and I’ve got work to do. Bloggers, carry on.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Yars

August 29, 2007 7:31 AM | Link to this

What saddens me is that the Braves are likely to miss out on the wildcard by only a few games, if things don’t turn around quickly. Since nothing about this team should surprise any of us now, knowing our luck, the day they are eliminated, they will then go on some 7 or 8 game winning streak, winning 8 of their last 9. That’s what I predict. That way, Bobby can say something positive about the team ending on a high note, & taking that positive vibe to spring training ‘08. What a sorry season this is/was. What p** me off the most, is seeing teams like the Phillies & Padres ahead of us. Man, that p** me off.

By Lee in S. GA

August 29, 2007 7:47 AM | Link to this

When you bring back a talent like Orr what do you expect. Already a losing road record even IF they win tonight. This whining about strikes is hurting this team. I am sure umpires are fed up with it and it has gotten a little embarrassing to say the least. The Braves are 3 games above 500 and the Padres are slowly nailing the coffin lid down because they will sweep the D’backs. Regardless the Braves have already fallen a game behind the W.C. on this road trip no matter what happens tonight. When the roster expands the Braves need to do some experimenting and playing other players so they can go ahead and get a clue about next season because the hand writing is on the wall for this season and it has some vulgar language in it.

By Stuart

August 29, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this

I don’t agree with all of Bobby’s moves. However, I am starting to think that managing this team is like trying to play poker without any good cards. The bench is awful. The bullpen is terrible. Almost 60% of the outs made were K’s.

Not trying to defend BC, but it is hard to win at Texas hold’em with 2, 7 unsuited. You can bluff and strategize all you want, but sometimes you gotta have cards. The braves don’t ENOUGH weapons. It is hard to win games with a bench consisting of Miller, Woodward, Thorman and Orr. It is hard to win with bullpen that has Yates and Villareal prominately involved.

Sometimes if you aint got the cards, you aint gonna win the pot.

By Overlord

August 29, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

**And he is responsible for some of those mental mistakes, because he doesnt teach or stress fundamentals.

Play for Cox and you dont even have to STRETCH. Just dont wear sunglasses on your ballcap during bp.**

ROBERT im sure you dont need to go to batting practice in order to notice that. Braves show on the field what you just mentioned.

ZERO ZERO ZERO execution of basic things, nothing but a long ball….. im not sure how much time will it take for smoltz to mentally get this one behind.

I said it on monday…… watching so much offense on monday almost automatically meant day off the next day. As they didnt hit last night, and Carlyle is on the mound…. probably theyll score some 6 runs, but once again, it is possible for them to lose.

By bravesfan07

August 29, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

I sure wish we still had Maddux and Glavine. I know they’re not great like they used to be, but they are better than any of our 3-5 starters.

By Efrim

August 29, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

6 back in the division, 5 back in the wild card.

If the division is over, then how is the Wild card not?

By Overlord

August 29, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

Once again….BOBBY COX

By Overlord

August 29, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this

Once again BOBBY deserves this loss. Why do you put harris in if you are gonna PH for him. If he is PH for harris it is obvious he things matt is far better hitter. So he gets outsmarted once again, not by the other manager, but what is worst, *by the game itself. *

By TommyP

August 29, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

Let me preface this by saying that I’m an Andruw Jones fan. Always have been.

That said, the guy really needs to look in the mirror as to what the Braves need to get to the playoffs.

They don’t need someone with his salary to be the worst hitter in the lineup.

Seems to me that JoJo had a nice start the other night as did Cormier but we wasted those performances.

We have enough pitching to get to the postseason because of all the hitting we have in the lineup.

But the hitting disappears on nights we get that solid start.

Last night was a debacle.

Andruw: Hit .280 with your normal power and we’re in the postseason. Quit throwing out excuses like using the payroll as an out.

That’s pathetic.

By ijonathan

August 29, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

uga brave

At 1:19 am you wrote this gem:

i however will be and will always be a bobby cox supporter. with the exception of a game or three, i just dont see how this season falls on cox. this guy only expects players to play hard and not make mental mistakes. how many times have the braves not executed the most basic fundamnentals? how many times have the brave been able to score a run from third with less than two-out? how many times have our 3-5 starters dug us a big hole? how many times have we scored a couple of runs in an inning only to see our pitcher walk the leadoff guy in the next half inning? look everyone wants to blame someone, and predominantly on this blog it seems to be COX, but this season aint on him.

Wow. Please explain to me just exactly who is ultimately responsible if the Braves as a team collectively fail at the “fundamentals” (be they pitching, hitting, fielding or baserunning?)

By Overlord

August 29, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

ssiscribe all points correct.

By h_charles

August 29, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

Stick a fork in them.

They are done.

There is hope for next year. Another year’s experience for the young guys, Hampton’s possible return, and a possibility that Renteria gets traded for a real starting pitcher.

Funniest thing of all was listening to JS at the beginning of the year saying pitching is what wins, pitching is what the Braves always built themselves around. So, what does he do at the trade deadline? Trade 2 of our top pitching prospects and get a firstbaseman. Love Tex, but he’s the answer to the wrong question. Here’s to hoping JS practices what he preaches next offseason. If we were willing to overspend for Tex (and yes we did overspend), not sure why we wouldn’t do the same for a starter.

By Stuart

August 29, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Actually, now the WC is pretty much over.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

What gets me is these people who write 6” in length or more, unbroken “paragraphs”, and expect someone else to read them. Or do they?

By David

August 29, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

DOB, love the subject. The most important question to ask is why didn’t we get another starter….it is this…why have we not developed a front-line starter in over 10 years????

I guess you may be able to count Wainright but he was traded. Horacio, Odalis, Marquis…..et al…are all very mediocre. The teams that are winning (outside the budget busters Yankees and Red Sox) all have developed aces.

What the heck are JS and our scouts doing when it comes to pitching?

By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera

August 29, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

From the mlb.com story:

When we were running to the ball, nobody called for it,” Jones said. “So I went ahead and called it and just felt like he was really close to me, so I gator-armed the ball little bit. I just couldn’t make the play on it.

More refreshing candor from Andruw, here after an excruciating loss brought about by a set of circumstances that might tempt a lesser teammate to point the finger. Replay clearly shows Andruw call for the ball — he hollers “I got it!” several times, in fact, so Orr should have gotten out of the way sooner. Neither player is fully to blame, really, but the fact remains, Dave — Andruw DID call off Either Orr’s boy. Man up and apologize. And don’t be so smug because you ride in elevators with scouts and Either Orr doesn’t. That in and of itself doesn’t automatically make you right.

As ol’ Hank once wrote, “No matter how much you boast and brag, you can still learn a thing or two.”

The great Joe South has some wisdom for you as well: “If you could see you through my eyes instead of your ego, I believe you’d be surprised to see that you’ve been blind.”

If anybody in the clubhouse or the press box or the elevator agrees with you that Andruw didn’t call off Orr, well, inaccuracy loves company, I guess.

By Mitchie-san

August 29, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

The way the Braves are playing, I think I will stay in Japan and become a bigger Yokohama Baystars fan…Kinjo, inchiban!!!!!!!

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

N8,

The JD Drew was the right trade at that time. I don’t see how anyone could dispute that it wasn’t, at the very least, a half-way decent trade.

I Wainwright becomes a perennial Cy Young contender, maybe I’ll jump to the other side. But so far he’s been just a good pitcher.

Could he have helped the Braves this season? Of course. But that trade took place over three years ago. A lot can happen to a young pitcher in three years. Why should you not include one young pitcher in a trade for a chance to acquire an MVP-caliber player in his prime?

Todd A,

Here are some projections:

HardballTimes: 82-80

BaseballProspectus: 82-80

Diamond Mind: 84-78

http://shaunpayne.blogspot.com/2007/08/baseball-projection-systems-are.html

By brent a.

August 29, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Stuart,

Isn’t it strange about the WC?

Just over a week ago, the WC chase was the more realistic goal, now, we have played ourselves almost out of that race, and are in better position to catch the Mets, due simply to the fact that we face them 6 times (not because we are playing well).

Technically, we still “control our own destiny” in that race.

But, I don’t say that with any real confidence. It’s just the facts.

I was never looking forward to this road trip, but at the same time, we have played worse than our opponents have played well.

It would be a fitting end to the trip tonight, to see Willis shut us down. Then, we would have won the first game of each series by showing off our bats, just to fold the rest of each series.

It’s sad.

We could’ve pulled w/in 5 games of the Mets last night, instead, we stay at 6 back.

Until we lose games this week-end, I’m not saying it’s over, but what has this team done since early May to make any of us believe that we’re going to sweep the Mets this week-end? (And even that won’t mean much if we drop another game tonight).

The team that went into the season with the “6-inning game” approach, has now become the team that continually fails in the 10+ inning game. 4-9 after last night in extras.

Hard to believe that a team with an offense like ours can’t seem to pull out games late anymore.

I’m heading to TF on Friday night. I might say my good-bye’s to Andruw then, not sure that I’ll be making it back out to the Ted after this week-end.

Prove me wrong.

Go Braves!

By ballgirl

August 29, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

I agree about the Braves’ need for starting pitching (that is obvious and the easy answer) but what right does Andruw have to offer his suggestions when his year has been less than exemplary? Granted his RBIs are still great but, if he had taken the time and effort to improve that crazy, flailing swing of his in June when the Braves could do nothing but lose, how many more games would they have won? My guess is that they would really be giving the Mets a run for their money right now. So if Andruw wants to blame someone, he should look at his own personal (lack of) contribution to the team’s wins this year instead of criticizing other areas.

By Efrim

August 29, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

The Padres are on fire right now. They walked into New York and Philly and won those series and have now won the first two games in the Arizona series. They beat Brandon Webb last night with their #4 starter.

By David O'Brien

August 29, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave, I’m about sick of this crap from you: “I think you need to rectify this because your credibility is in question, at least by me.”

After I ask Chipper if he’s alright and he says fine, and when I ask Cox yesterday if he’s alright and he says “Yes” and looks at me like I’m silly for asking and says “He’s playing,” and then he plays the entire game and hits a two-run homer in a 4-3 loss, and he plays the entire game, and I spend the very brief time I have in the clubhouse trying to get quotes from the folks involved in the events that led to the loss, before racing back upstairs to rewrite in 10 minutes before an 11 p.m. deadline … I really am sick of hearing inane suggestion from you and your buddy about what an idiot I am for not being able to tell you what’s wrong with Chipper immediately after the game.

Rectify for you? Yeah, I’ll get right on that. Credibility in question, with you? I could give you a suggestion regarding that, but I’ll keep it to myself.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

This blog is almost “devoid” of the tried-and-true names and, instead, looks more and more like the Terrence Moore blog.

By Efrim

August 29, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

We are now 6 back in the loss column for the Wild Card. We are 7 back in the loss coulmn for the division.

By Liberty Media Group

August 29, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

“You’ve got to understand, sometimes it’s tough when you have a centerfielder who never gets a hit in a close game with runners in scoring position — and I mean never! It’s even worse when the league’s biggest choke artist is one of your highest paid players. That makes it hard to compete with other teams for the playoffs.”

By Kelley

August 29, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

A couple of comments:

1. If Andruw is not a Brave next year, we will miss more than his candor. He has struggled this season, but you can’t replace his defense. My four year old daughter will cry when I tell her he’s gone (I may cry with her).

2. People who criticize Bobby make me laugh. People actually IN baseball who know what they’re talking about worship him and hold him in the highest esteem. You don’t make it to the top five all time in wins for no reason. He has a very limited pay roll to work with, and gets more out of his players than any other manager.

3. Great REM song DOB.

By Efrim

August 29, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Were those projections before we acquired Mark Teixiera?

By TampaBrave

August 29, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

I sense AJ is starting to heat up. He struck out on a couple of nasty pitches, but I think he would have done the same thing 2 years ago. He is starting to hit the hittable pitches, not to a high proficiency, but much better than before. Suggest dropping Frenchy to 9th. OK a little reactive, but at least Carlyle makes contact.

DOB

Still waiting for you to redeem yourself.

By The Grinch

August 29, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Morning, all. Good points last night, N8 and especially fastasballs. There were also some doozies, like the 1:19 jjonathan just beat me to and this beaut: “It looks like Shaun is the lone voice of reason in here, and everyone else is just as self-important know-it-all!” Looks like Shaun’s little brother got a new computer.

There is something definitely wrong with this team, and it isn’t the collective talent. On paper, even with Larry, Moe and Curly pitching 3-4-5 there’s no way this team shouldn’t make the playoffs and go deep. They’re playing bad baseball, and when a group of good players plays consistantly bad baseball it usually means they’re either unhappy with the manager or the manager is grossly ineffective. Anyone who knows anything about this club knows they don’t dislike the manager. When you see children running loose in a restaurant and behaving poorly, the conclusion shouldn’t be “They’re all bad children.” The more likely cause is bad/ineffective parenting. You don’t give a misbehaving child ice cream to get him to stop crying. You also don’t let your spoiled cleanup hitter do exactly as he pleases (which isn’t much) just because “He’s the best option.” If you sat his @$$ until he agreed to listen to you or his batting coach, salary be damned, not only would you likely get better results out of him you’d instill in the rest of the team that someone actually is in charge. Francouer needs to sit at least one game because of last night (also because he obviously needs a day off anyway). Almost all other managers at any level do this; it’s called managing. It’s not just the throwing of darts to determine bullpen useage, folks. The offense should be good enough to overcome that.

This team reminds me of the Recon unit in “Heartbreak Ridge” sitting around the barracks shooting pool all day every day until Clint Eastwood showed up and made them do their job. Talent without any direction at all is usually wasted talent.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Well, what is there to say? I just don’t know with this team. I wish I could do as others and look at this team and say they just don’t have the talent. But, that is not true. The Braves have good to great players at every position, yet they aren’t winning. Why? I will say it again. This team doesn’t have the heart. Quite frankly, the Mets lack it as well. Contrast these two teams to the Phillies who have tightened down and kept playing well despite injuries. I just don’t know.

If the Braves don’t win tonight, they need to call up the kids and let them play because the season is over.

By BamaBrave

August 29, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

If you make special arrangements to pitch Smoltz on short rest at this time of year, then it’s abundantly clear that the game should be approached with playoff-like intensity and strategy. You gotta win that game. So if that was our top, all-out effort last night…yikes. We simply don’t have it.

I’m STILL not ready to wave the white flag…but it’s out of the box and unfurled.

All that’s really left is figuring out which remaining game I attend to wish Andruw bon voyage.

By Liberty Media Group

August 29, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

By the way, Andruw did call off Orr last night, contrary to what was reported here. We’re sure that he didn’t want to take responsibility for that either though. He’s much too “candid” to be accountable.

By Braves Fan 79

August 29, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

I agree Efrin, the padres are hot…and their either winning the wildcard or the west. Which means we either have to hope the diamondbacks fall or we catch the mets. If we can just get CLOSE to SOMEONE the last couple of weeks we could catchup because ud have to feel good about the last 2 weeks with our schedule.

By TampaBrave

August 29, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

McCann came up with 2 on and no outs trailing by 2. Thought we should have bunted the runners into scoring position, regardless of what McCann had done previously. The Braves do seem to play for the long ball too much. We have all seen how the little things mean a lot. We usually see them when we are being beaten by them. Bunting, hit and runs, steals, sacrifices, etc. Sometimes I think I’m watching a slow pitch softball game.

By Tomahawkin

August 29, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Aight this team has lost 3 of 4, in probably the most importsant week of the season, and this team Flat out Sucks Rite now…

I’m not giving up but I sense that this is the most frustrating and underachieving team I’ve seen since 1990

BTW make that 15-21 in one-run games…

D.O.B. Said it rite, it seems we either blow teams out (resulting in our high batting averages) or lose tough games because they don’t know how to play A-B-C baseball when the game is on the line

19k’s are u phyucking kidding me…

By Efrim

August 29, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Grinch

I agree. Francouer needs to sit after last night. Not a good performance from him overall.

He has now struck out 107 times. He has 34 walks and a .784 OPS.

For the people who use Francouer and McCann in the same sentence as David Wright, Jose Reyes, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard, well you are lost. They just aren’t there yet. Granted, Utley is 29, Howard is 28, Wright is 25, Reyes is 24. They are all older, and have more experience in terms of baseball played. But our two young guns still have a lot to learn.

Frenchy and Heap still kick a* though.

By N8

August 29, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Shaun

I never did say that “at the time” the JD trade was the wrong one.

But NOT being able to sign him long term, made it a worse trade in the long run (or did it? based on his numbers and injuries since?)

Similar to the Tex trade. It was absolutely the right move at the time, based on our team, and the lack of quality pitching to be had out on the market, but AGAIN, if he is not re-signed to a long term deal, and Salty, Harrison and Andrus have good, long careers in Texas, that trade will look silly. Especially since it hasn’t done a THING to help us in the standings.

At least Tex is signed through next year as well, so we get a year and 2 months out of him. Not just 1 year. :-)

I was just arguing your point, about the “stars” not being traded in the JD deal. Wainwright, in my mind is already a star, and is still rising.

Having said all of that, I will conceed that, based on my earlier points on pressure and comparisons to the BIG 3, there is a pretty good chance that Wainwright might’ve failed in Atlanta as well. Maybe the best thing for his career was getting as far away from being compared to Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz. I guess we’ll never know.

By J.D. Phillips

August 29, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

This team has the worse bench in MLB. No wonder they have a losing record in extra inning games. When the starters are taken out, ejected, injured or whatever the reason there are no adequate replacements for them on the team. I know a team is not going to have all stars on the bench but when you take chances on guys like Orr, Woodward, Miller and Thorman you are asking for trouble.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Finally comes Grinch: A name we know and a voice of reason.

By Wolfman

August 29, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

Turn out the lights the party’s OVER !!!…………..This is the worst stretch of bad luck I have erver seen in one year. The ball Escobar hit in 5th bounces out of the Park and Andruw is stepping on third base.He has to go back to third. Instead one run in and Smoltz bunts Esco up to third with one out. Willie still would have probably filaed to get him in though , and we instead score ZERO runs instead of a sure one , if not two in the 5th. Unreal luck on this trip !!!………4 one run losses and a two run loss out of 6 losses , and three blow-out wins !!!….Never seen anything like it in my 40 years as a Braves fan….A roadtrip from hell to sink our Tee-Pee like the Titantic !!!!………and getting back to Willie Harris ,….what I Cox doing still having him in the Line-up. when he is 3 for last 45 at the plate, can’t bunt, can’t drive in a run from 3rd with less than two outs, and Cox has him still leading off !!!!!!!………Diaz is on fire !!!.batting 358 vs LH and 320 vs RH pitchers !!!……..Boooooby Cox can’t retire fast enough.Watching these games on this road trip have ruined my season , and caused serious damage to my heart !!1.its sad to waste such hitting talent , and two great starters. I fell sorry for Smoltz and Chipper…two Braves HOFamers for sure ……..geez ,….I can’t take these losses anymore , …next year has to be the Year we return to the Series !!!!!……See ya in 2008 !!

By GK

August 29, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Hindsight is 20/20, and SOOO many on this blog don’t seem to get that point.

Also, TampaBrave is bordering on the absurd. Why do you EVER pinch hit McCann? The man is your clutch hitting RBI machine. The Braves do NOT play for the HR, they play the odds. You have your best hitters coming up, and you want to give up and out and take the bat out of their hands?????? Get real.

Let’s get this straight: Unless extreme situations exist, these people do not bunt: Chipper, McCann, Francoeur, Teixeira, and Andruw. These are your RBI men. You do not take the bat out of their hands and give up and out. You just don’t. Maybe you bunt some of the other guys once in a while, but not your RBI men.

By BlackBelt

August 29, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Andruw’s biggest baseball problem is that he can’t lay off that slider off the plate. Bites for it every time.

My wife is amazed at my psychic powers when he gets two strikes on him. I say, “Watch him miss this slider off the plate.” Then it happens…every time!!!

Every pitcher in baseball knows he bites for it and can’t hit it…So when Andruw has two strikes on him…save 30 seconds and mark up the “K” in your scorebook.

By David O'Brien

August 29, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Since I had no chance to talk to Orr before my deadline, and since Cox, Villarreal, Smoltz and Andruw all said they either had no idea what happened or, in the case of Andruw, said neither of them called for the ball, and since us reporters couldn’t sit in the pressbox after the last pitch and watch the TV replays that some have said showed Andruw calling for the ball, I’m gonna assume one thing: That if Andruw did call for the ball, he did so after not hearing Orr call for it.

Otherwise, I don’t think Andruw would throw Orr under the bus. He really likes Orr and tried to defend him afterward by pointing out how tough the play was for a guy just coming into the game and who had such little OF experience.

Now, obviously the only other person to ask, which I’ll do today, is Orr. But again, deadline simply made that impossible last night. And only replays I’ve seen were on ESPN, and they sure didn’t “clearly show” Andruw calling for the ball. They didn’t show anything except two guys approaching the ball at the same time. Replay I saw on ESPN just now didn’t even slow it down.

OK, that’s it. It’s over now anyway, but I’ll certainly ask Pete what happened today, since Andruw was adamant that neither of them called it, and since it clearly was in Pete’s area more than it was Andruw’s. But I do agree that Andruw was roaring in there pretty hard, and can’t blame Pete for getting the H out of the way if he hadn’t called for it and if Andruw was barreling in.

As for TampaBrave, again, we could suggest what to do with the redemption you’re waiting for, but we’ll bite our tongue. Don’t expect anything from me, though, redemption or Chipper’s condition or anything else. You don’t know how to ask. No tact, anyone ever tell you that?…

Wolfman, good post. Creative.

By Jersey Gil

August 29, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

This will be my last blog comment for the season. Next week i starter a new job with no internet connection and in my home computer is to slow to blog in….so in my last comment i will said this…a few weeks ago i comment that BC with the Platoon in second (before Rent was hurt)and in left field will hurt the Braves chances to the playoff.Wiilie harris is not other than a bench player(a good one)and i said in that moment to Bc “enouch with that platoon think, let the KId play”(KJ,Matt Diaz)every day….and guess what happen last night. I think we still have a mathematic change to win the Division(forgot it the Wild card to many team involve).But if we get in the off season a good starter we have a good chance to be a good contender for the Division in 2008. Good luck to BC (I think if time to retired) and i will see you in the ball park around the cities. Hasta la vista baby

By GK

August 29, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Correction

Hindsight is 20/20, and SOOO many on this blog don’t seem to get that point.

Also, TampaBrave is bordering on the absurd. Why do you EVER bunt McCann? The man is your clutch hitting RBI machine. The Braves do NOT play for the HR, they play the odds. You have your best hitters coming up, and you want to give up and out and take the bat out of their hands?????? Get real.

Let’s get this straight: Unless extreme situations exist, these people do not bunt: Chipper, McCann, Francoeur, Teixeira, and Andruw. These are your RBI men. You do not take the bat out of their hands and give up and out. You just don’t. Maybe you bunt some of the other guys once in a while, but not your RBI men.

By 22oz

August 29, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Amen Grinch!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

I’m not a “Cox basher” like my fellow Oklahoman. However, when does Cox take some responsibility for how this team is playing? Again, don’t lay it all on the pitching because the pitching did its job last night. Last night’s game was not on Tyler Yates. It amazes me how managers get ripped all the time for the way their teams play, yet nobody ever wants to rip Cox.

This crap about this team not being that talented just doesn’t hold water. Lets go through the team and see how much better or worse than we are compared to everybody else.

Mark Teixeira is one of the three best 1B in the NL. Kelly Johnson isn’t Chase Utley but name another 2B who is pound for pound that much better than Johnson. Renteria/Escobar at SS aren’t as good as Reyes or Rollins but I think stand toe to toe with anybody else. When Chipper is on he is the best 3B in the NL.

The left field platoon of Diaz/Harris is solid. Not too many LF who are better hitters than Diaz. Andruw is the best defensive CF. His offense has really hurt this team but his talent level is as good as anybody’s including the almighty Carlos Beltran. Francoeur has made himself the best rightfielder in the NL despite last night’s game. His defense is light years ahead of anyone else’s and his offense has greatly improved. And, Brian McCann is the second best all around catcher in the NL behind Russell Martin.

Now, to the pitching. The starting pitching overall is okay. No team in the NL has a one-two punch like the Braves. The rest of the rotation is sketchy at best but compared to most other NL teams it really isn’t that bad. The bullpen has had its moments but is there a better one in the NL? Short of the Padres the answer is no.

Fact is, this team has the talent. The Braves are as talented as the Phillies or Padres and can run with the Mets.

So, why aren’t they winning? Answers like “bad luck” and “that’s baseball” just don’t cut it. I want to know why they are playing so poorly. I know this. If a business was performing like this team has performed the manager would have had his butt chewed out by now if not fired. He or she would be the ones held responsible. So, why isn’t that the case here?

By Yars

August 29, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

If we lose tonight against Dontrelle, then it’s time to wave the white flag & call it a season. Just not enough games left to turn it around. I don’t expect the Padres to run away with the wildcard, but they are playing really good right now. Hell, even the Phillies & Dodgers are playing well & still have a great chance at catching the Padres. One of those three will win the wildcard. We’re losing against crap teams like the Reds, Cards, & Fish. How can anyone believe that we’re capable of sweeping the Mets & Phils soon? We’re losing series against teams under .500! We’re on the verge of going 3-7 on this road trip! 29 games left & 6 games behind the Padres in the loss column for the NL Wildcard with the Phillies & Dodgers playing better than us? The Braves only goal now is to try to finish the regular season over .500. If they want to accomplish that, keep Chuck James & Jo Jo out of the starting rotation for the rest of the season.

By rammerjammer

August 29, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

These comments Sunday from Bill Madden in the NY Daily News are worth reading:

“So if you haven’t figured out the secret of the Mets’ success this year, it is that, other than Moises Alou, they haven’t lost any of their core players for a sustained period and their starting pitchers - Tom Glavine, John Maine, Oliver Perez and even El Duque - have remained healthy and pitched up to or beyond expectations.”

I think the contrast to the Braves’ season is obvious. Good health goes a long way toward success.

By don

August 29, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

The “KTex” trade already looks silly. In fact, only a fool would have made it. “KTex” has “fine numbers”. However, he has not been the difference in any game- absolutely none. In other words, he hasn’t delivered in the cluthc. Check it out.

The many posters who were singing “instant playoffs” when “KTex” arrived better revise their lyrics. He hasn’t, in terms of wins, meant squat.

By David O'Brien

August 29, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Since I had no chance to talk to Orr before my deadline (he wasn’t at his locker immediately after game), and since Cox, Villarreal, Smoltz and Andruw all said they either had no idea what happened or, in the case of Andruw, said neither he nor Orr called for the ball, and since we reporters couldn’t sit in the pressbox after the intentely watch the TV replays that some have said showed Andruw calling for the ball (see, I had to immediately file a story, and the game was changing dramatically at that moment, requiring attention be paid to writing quickly), I’m gonna assume one thing: That if Andruw did call for the ball, he did so after not hearing Orr call for it.

Otherwise, I don’t think Andruw would throw Orr under the bus. He really likes Orr and tried to defend him afterward by pointing out how tough the play was for a guy just coming into the game and who had such little OF experience.

Now, obviously the only other person to ask, which I’ll do today, is Orr. But again, deadline simply made that impossible last night. And only replays I’ve seen were on ESPN, and they sure didn’t “clearly show” Andruw calling for the ball. They didn’t show anything except two guys approaching the ball at the same time. Replay I saw on ESPN just now didn’t even slow it down.

OK, that’s it. It’s over now anyway, but I’ll certainly ask Pete what happened today (despite the fact that TampaBrave wants me to, not because), since Andruw was adamant that neither of them called it, and since it clearly was in Pete’s area more than it was Andruw’s. But I do agree that Andruw was roaring in there hard, and can’t blame Pete for getting the H out of the way if he hadn’t called for it and if Andruw was barreling in.

As for TampaBrave, again, we could suggest what to do with the redemption you’re waiting for, but we’ll bite our tongue. Don’t expect anything from me, though, redemption, or a report on Chipper’s condition (that’ll be for the others here who care, not you, OK) or anything else.

Because you don’t know how to ask, or how to say anything so as not to offend or rub folks the wrong way. No tact whatsoever. Anyone ever tell you that?.

If not, it’s time they did. It’s pretty awful.

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

N8,

I think it goes back to the point others have made—you have to give up something to get something. It’s better to sacrifice some chances for long-term success if you think the sacrifice can get you into the playoffs and give you a shot at a World Series title. Maybe we take it for granted that a lot of those trades of prospects made significant differences in the Braves getting into the post-season that season or the following season.

And I don’t think the Tex trade will look all that silly unless all three of those players become great or better. The most likely scenario is that Salty will become a star and one of the others will become at least decent. If that happens, even if Tex is lost after next season, it will be a fair trade.

Whether the Braves reach the post-season or not, it’s hard to argue that Tex didn’t increase their chances this season and will likely increase them next season.

I just think if you have a chance to win, you feel you are that close to the playoffs, and can fill a hole with an impact player, you sacrifice a little bit of the future in a lot of cases.

By wjones

August 29, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

I have some thoughts on the Pete-Andruw play from last night, ironically coming on the heels of this blog with the title proclaiming Andruw’s “candor”.

1. According to the most recent Chop Talk magazine, “Orr has played six positions with the R-Braves, with the majority coming at third base, although he saw most of the activity in center field while Gregor Blanco was on the disabled list with a strained oblique muscle from July 23-August 3.” While that isn’t a whole lot of outfield play, it is more and more recent than Kelly’s, who hasn’t played there since 2005, and who apparently hurt his arm out there to the point of missing a whole season. So putting Pete out there was probably the correct decision, adding to the fact that Pete had apparently played very little second base recently.

2.None of us know exactly what conversations and instructions were had prior to the start of the inning. I would assume that Andruw gave both Matt and Pete some preliminary instructions, somewhere along the lines of “listen for me to either call you on or off the ball”. I have absolutely no way of knowing that, but considering Andruw’s rep and status, and Pete’s obvious deference to Andruw, that would make sense.

1. On the play before “the play”, the announcers were seemingly making fun of Pete for hustling over to back up Andruw on a play that he handled. I wondered aloud to my wife why they were doing that? It was an extra inning game, and if the ball got by Andruw they would have a runner in scoring position.

2. Watching the play in replay, a couple of things came to mind. Pete was under the ball, but did not call it. The announcers said that Andruw could not see that Pete was under it because he was following the ball, but couldn’t the same be said of Pete not being aware of Andruw for the same reason, and when he heard Andruw he backed off? If Pete had caught the ball, he definitely risked a collision with Andruw. This was Pete’s first game after being sent down, and what would you think would happen to him had he collided with Andruw after being called off the ball, and Andruw getting injured and missing the rest of the season?? I think we all can guess the answer.

All in all it was a tough position to put Pete in, and we probably won’t hear Pete’s side of it, because of his status vs. Andruw and his proclamation as a “great teamate”. I do wish, however, Andruw would own up to things every now and again, not that he is alone in not doing that, but for my part it would make me feel better about him just to admit screwing up every now and again. And in this situation, I would feel very good about him to have taken the rap on this, even if he didn’t feel it was his fault. My feeling is that if Pete is in that situation again, and if Andruw had taken the rap, it would have given him a lot more confidence. Now I just don’t know.

By Bob

August 29, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Andruw never takes responsibility for the lousy year he has had…..the losing is always the fault of someone else. How many runners has he left on base? He must be leading the team. In comparison to his season long slump, look at Laroche who has climbed back from an even lower batting average to be nearing .270. I honestly believe Andruw’s best days are behind him.

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

don,

Are you kidding? You really think only “clutch” matters? What about the runs Teixeira’s putting on the board in “non-clutch” situations? They don’t count towards the final score and therefore in giving the Braves a chance to win? I guess if a team hits five solo homers in the first inning, and the team goes on to win 5-0, those players didn’t make the difference in the game because they didn’t deliver in “clutch” situations?

By DAP

August 29, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

CC Rider i like your ideas, but i wouldnt dittio them exactly. i like our bullpen the way it is now, i wouldnt change a thing. what i would change, is how they are used. i think that has alot to do with thier poor performances. the one guy im really disenchanted with in the bullpen is villareal, but again, he is a good pitcher who may have been over worked.

harris will not be on this team next year. neither will wooward, or pete orr, or scott thorman. at least i hope not. this will make the team better by leaps and bounds.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Bobby(Capt. of the Titanic)Cox: “Don’t worry about that little bump, folks. We are the “unsinkable” Atlanta Braves. We can still win this thing. 1st Officer, Chino, ring up FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!”

By Roy K

August 29, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

and good pitching beat up our good hitters in post season and world series - so again, a player short vs other good teams even in post season. Always a little short. except 95.

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

don,

Or better yet, a team hits 5 solo homers in the first and goes on to win 5-4…does that mean none of those guys made the difference in the game because they didn’t contribute in the “clutch”?

This reminds me of the fallacy in MVP voting. Even if a player is clearly the best, often times they won’t vote him the MVP because the GM didn’t surround him with the right players.

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

don,

Even if we accept that clutch situations are more important, which is perfectly reasonable, Teixeira is still doing the job.

He leads the team in OPS with runners on in his limited action with the Braves. Also with RISP, with RISP and 2 outs, he’s hitting .316 with a .409 OBP in late and close situations.

By Lee in S. GA

August 29, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

harris will not be on this team next year. neither will wooward, or pete orr, or scott thorman. at least i hope not. this will make the team better by leaps and bounds.

DAP - I agree with this.

Thorman via trade will be gone..if anybody wants him. Somebody will give him a chance.

Woodward and Orr will not make this team..period.

Harris had his career year and hopefully the Braves will understand this.

By Stuart

August 29, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Brent A.

I posted being out of the WC out of frustration. The reason I think the divison race is done is because over is becasue the the back three in the rotation are ALL going in the Phillies series. BC is kind of putting all his eggs in one basket in the Mets series.

The reason I thinkt he WC is a better option is that we only have to beat one team from our division instead of 2. I believe SD is making their run now. I don’t think it will last. They cant hit. The west has eaten each other all year and I think that will continue. To win the division, the braves have to jump over two teams that play similar schedules. We do control our own destiny, but only by a hair. Unless we SWEEP both the phils and mutts it is going to be hard to win that division. What in my mind is more likely (wishful thinking here) is a solid 7-3, 8-2 homestand and a continuation of the NL west beating each other and the bravos getting back close in the WC. The mutts and phils have been better against Fla and the Nats than we have. I dont see that trend changing.

Anything over 4 games back in either race is tough to overcome. There are Approx. 4 weeks left. If a team is 4 games back, to win or force a playoff they have to average AT LEAST 1 game a week better than the team or teams they are chasing. (Example, if the braves were 4 games back, and the mets averaged a 4-2 week, the braves HAVE to average a 5-1 week just to tie.) Once you fall more than 4 back, it is going to be tough. You guys can do the math with the actual numbers.

Again, I am frustrated. My intent is to vent. I enjoy the blog and find alot of insights, even those i dont agree with to be informative.

I would love to be wrong and the Bravos win this thing. Sign me up for that crow, I will eat it and ask for seconds.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Bobby(Capt. of the Titanic)Cox: Change the watch? Never!! These are the ones that got us here, and the ones that will take us where we are going! glub glub.

By TampaBrave

August 29, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

GK

I don’t think it’s absurd to sacrifice with runners at 1st and 2nd and no out. Its actually a better percentage move. McCann had already homered and doubled, so it was unlikely he would do so again. We were trailing by two. With the runners SACRIFICED into scoring position, all we need is one single with 2 chances to get it. That seems like a higher percentage play to me than hoping for a long fly. Also, if he hits a playable ground ball, its a double play, now requiring a HR to tie the game. It is that type of thinking that has lost us way too many games. We have to be more than a 3 run HR team. We need to be situational. I look at this team and I think 90+ wins, despite the pitching. I think your way of thinking is what will doom this team. Not saying you are responsible, but the powers that be seem to think along the lines of what you are saying. Who says a big man can’t bunt?

By Lew

August 29, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Yars-You never wave the white flag, Dude, even if you’re eliminated mathematically. Then you play for pride. That being said, it IS looking like the desire, the fire, the spark, or something is missing from this team. RJIB called it correctly-it is not lack of talent. If you had to sum it up in one word, it would be this INCONSISTENCY.

For the most part this season, all of the elements-offense, pitching and relief pitching have been, at the very least, decent and at their best, simply incredible. Now some say this points to mediocrity, but that is way too simplistic. No, something is missing here. It isn’t good hitting, it isn’t good pitching. We don’t have a lousy bullpen like in 06. It is the lack of a fundamental drive and will to win despite whatever happens. It is not here. It has not been here this entire season and, at this point, I don’t expect it to show up. Is it BC’s lack of ability to motivate? Come on, even his biggest detractors have to look aside when they mouth that nonsense. No, It’s not Bobby, but something is definitely missing that they need to find. Some of you may find this strange coming from me, the Eternal Optimist, but y’all have repeatedly asked for realism from me and there it is. Find a way to ignite the fire. Without it, nothing good will result. The suicide watch may now resume. Careful of sharp objects and make sure you give your belts to someone responsible.

By David O'Brien

August 29, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Wjones, very good points, and I agree on them.

Just talked to someone who informed me that in the second wave of reporters who talked to Andruw last night (I got Andruw while some others were talking to Villarreal, because I was hurrying to get back upstairs to write), he did say that he called for the ball — AFTER he didn’t hear Pete call for it. In other words, he’s racing over full-tilt, doesn’t hear Orr call for it, so he says, in effect, “Never mind, I’ll get it, get out of the way.”

And now that I see the replay again on this ESPN2 show that used to be called Cold Pizza and is called whatever now, I do see that explanation seems accurate.

But Wjones, I agree Andruw should either have stayed back if he couldn’t get to it, or probably should have taken more blame afterward.

And yes, Kelly missed last season recovering from Tommy John elbow surgery and hasn’t played the outfield in nearly two years. Orr has played it quite a bit in the minors, and almost none in the majors.

Just a bad sitatuation, one that never should’ve transpired because Francoeur should have bit his tongue and not said anything the umpire could have heard or misconstrued or anything else to trigger an ejection at that crucial stage of the game.

Not to mention the fact the Braves wasted so many chances to build a lead during the middle innings….

By bubba

August 29, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Bobby(Capt. of the Titanic)Cox: And 3rd Officer Andruw, wipe that smile off your face!! Can’t you see that the on “deck” circle is almost perpendicular? I’d ask you to catch some of those people going by you, but you never could handle a “slider”.

By BamaBrave

August 29, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

What would you have Bobby Cox say, bubba? He’s not Wolf Blitzer, or Anderson effing Cooper, etc…wringing his hands, breathlessly relaying gloom and doom. He’s a baseball manager. He knows what the hell is going on, but you put on the positive face and try to prop up the troops. Picking on Bobby just seems like a cheap shot right now…sorry.

By Anders

August 29, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

DOB I have a headline for your next blog “Is it time to focus on being spoilers?”

Seems like that’s all your boys have left.

By DAP

August 29, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

braves fan 79 im not trying to be rude at all…but youve stated that you feel good about the last couple of weeks of the braves schedule….why??? i dont feel good about this team no matter who is on the schedule! weve just gone 3-6 vs. 3 sub .500 teams! we cant beat anyone the way were playing right now!!

don youre not listening. youve been on here before talking about how tex hasnt contributed to one win this season. youve been given multiple examples of how hes HAS made a difference. just to prove you wrong, let me give you ONE! aug 9th he hit an rbi triple to score chipper against the mets. the braves won by ONE run! (he also scored twice) ok, please shutup now, don.

DOB ever since the first time that guy posted on this blog he has been arrogant and demanding. he really thinks he is something special. i support youre response. he deserves no special treatment from you.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks Pete Orr will be gone is crazy. Cox loves him thus meaning he will stay. Orr should have never been on the team this year. Neither should’ve Woodward. Here is what I don’t get. Craig Wilson was dumped after a month and a half of terrible play. Chris Woodward and Scott Thorman have been as bad if not worse and they are as secure in their spots on the team as Chipper and Smoltz. It doesn’t make a damn bit of sense to me. Someone please give me an intelligent explanation for this. And, regarding Thorman, don’t give me the crap about him being out of options and they don’t want to release him without getting anything in return. Who cares?! Cut his a**! You couldn’t get a team to give up a pack of Big League Chewing Gum at this point for him, so what’s the difference?

By Lee in S. GA

August 29, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

If a team lacks motivation, desire and fire, it is time for the manager to go. In any sport this is the case. He!l even the great Tom Landry had to be shown the door.

By Candid Kid

August 29, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

All youse people looking for excuses for your losing Braves, well here is the ‘reason’ they are losing, “They suck!”, They are losers!

Youse crybabies act like little kids that just had it sink in to your shallow minds that there really is no “Santa Claus”!

Shaun you announced on this blog the other day that you now have your own blog, well your own blog must suck too cause you’re longwinded, know-it-all @zz is always on this blog!

Lew, “INCONSISTENCY” not the Braves problem, Braves are very consistent in losing, no fire, no drive, lazy, no heart, no drive, no energy, lazy, did I say lazy?

Crybabies!

By Lee in S. GA

August 29, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

If Orr and Woodward are on this team come next season, may the force be with them and this team. They are going to need it.

By Stuart

August 29, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

The lineup of the braves is great, but they have NO bench. There is blame for Bobby in this, but he has no bench. He has no options if something goes wrong in the Starting lineup. You can’t make a gourmet meal out of the t3rd sandwich that is the braves bench and bullpen. No one can. Edgar injury has killed us. Not only did that take out our MVP, but it forced Yunnel AND KJ in the lineup. Usually you have one of them available to PH in a clutch situation when Edgar is in there.

Y’all do realize that other than Soriano, when Gonzalez got hurt, the bullpen we were left with was pretty much the same guys that gave us all ulcers last year. Other than Moylan, who is 2nd on my MVP voting behind Edgar, nothing has changed. Mahay has helped, but not enough.

I am also sick of his ‘fundamentals’ crud on here. These guys are Major league players, if they can’t bunt, it is THEIR fault. They did not get here by not knowing how to play. BC can’t help that, they are grown men, they have to take accountability and hone their skills.

I do have issue on how Bobby handle a bullpen and tends to wait to make moves until late in games. I have no idea why, against a tiring Vandenhurk he did not go on an pinch hit Diaz for Willie in the 5th, with 2nd and 3rd and 1 out. The squeeze is too risky with no one out. If that ball had not bounced into the stands on the double and Yunnel was on 3rd and no one out, I could see, but the squeeze is always VERY risky. Just let Diaz hit there and get 1 or 2 and be happy.

I think BC tends to over work bullpen guys who are hot. That I think is by product of the years of really BAD bullys in the ATL. He has over worked Yates this year. He had him going great and then just kept going to him. Yates has arm issues. BC even said that he has to be careful when using him. He kinda forgot about that in late June and all July. He has done Mahay the same way.

BC aint the only reason they have been mediocre all year. IMO, he has not been as good in games this year, but honestly, his hand are tied with some of the cr@ptastic talent on this team. (I am talking about the bench, and bottom of the bully, and back of the rotation, not the lineup.)

BTW, NO ONE is developing any ace pitchers anymore. That is why there is such premium on SPs anymore.

By Thrillhouse44

August 29, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Anders, you’re turning into a troll. I thought you prided yourself on good, logical baseball discussions. Do you think your last post falls into this category?

By BamaBrave

August 29, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Just want to throw this out there and get some opinions….Anyone think we might be better off with someone other than McDowell as pitching coach? Sure when Leo was here he had Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz, but he also seemed to get the most of out guys that no one else could. Guys like Jorge Sosa, Steve Avery, Kevin Millwood…getting saves from the likes of John Rocker and Mark Wohlers. Maybe I’m dreaming but I just feel like Rockin’ Leo could have gotten more out of some of our guys not named Hudson or Smoltz.

By Lew

August 29, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Anders-Do you realize that the Mets have lost three straight and five of their last seven? You just lost two straight (and two games lead) to the Phillies, the second place team? Perhaps you would be better advised to concentrate on what the Mets’ problems are-and Dude, they apparently have plenty-than to come here and preach to us. I have no idea what monumental character flaw or mental aberration (or even if it’s an overdeveloped sense of chutzpa) that causes you to constantly come here to explain how wretched the Braves are and what OUR problems may be, but I’m absolutely certain that a good therapist could help you out. Professional help is out there and available-go seek it out. Please. before it’s too late.

By BamaBrave

August 29, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Uh oh…we have a BamaBrave imposter. The 11:24 post is bogus… Not sure why anyone would want to do that…

By Renegator

August 29, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

The big question now becomes - can this team finish over .500? It sure doesn’t look like it right now.

Another pitcher had his all time high in strikeouts (8) against the Braves last night. How many pitchers have the Braves done that for this year?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Lew, I agree with you on everything except for Cox’s ability to motivate. Letting players be and “standing up” for them with umpires and the press is a good and admirable thing and all, but that is not motivating. Sometimes guys need to be challenged. Sometimes a raised voice and some anger needs to be displayed. I hear people on here suggest Cox does that in the privacy of his office. I’m not saying it isn’t true but I do have my doubts. What about him doing it in team meetings. He needs to quit listening to music and playing with cats and get some attitude with these guys. His “grandfatherly” approach has been successful but sometimes that stern hard as nails “fatherly” approach needs to be taken. Cox is almost passive aggressive in his appraoch and it simply isn’t working anymore. It just isn’t. This team plays with no emotion or fire and I defy anybody to tell me they do.

By The Grinch

August 29, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Lew, I’m surprised at you. “Even Bobby’s detractors have to look the other way when they spout that nonsense.” Dude, the biggest knock on Bobby for years has been that this team plays with a ho-hum attitude and no fire. The players change, but the attitude remains constant. That points straight to the manager. Both the attitude AND the tactical decisions have been noticeably worse this year, which is why you’re seeing more folks complaining about Bobby than before (myself included; the old-timers might remember I never said anything negative about him until a couple of months ago). Problem number one of the two has been around much longer, though, and it’s hardly been a secret. Hell, even you have pointed it out in the past. Did we get into the potatoe patch early this morning?

By supa

August 29, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe more people aren’t critical of our depleted bench. This was the second game in the past month we’ve lost because we had to play people out of position. Remember the error Willie Harris made at 3rd base after Renteria got hurt? That cost us the game against the Astros. And now yesterday. I know you can’t predict injuries or ejections, but we’re really handcuffing ourselves by playing with a short bench.

I can’t think of any team more in need of roster expansion on Sept 1.

By GT

August 29, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

I don’t know why the lack of depth in the starting rotation is suddenly treated like some incredible revelation. A number of folks saw this coming during the winter, even before Hampton reinjured himself.

Entering spring training, the rotation was poised to be Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Davies. Smoltz was the only pitcher with whom their should have been comfort in February of this year: Hudson was coming off two mediocre seasons which appeared to be part of a larger 4-5 year trend (too his credit, he has clearly outperformed his recent seasons this year).

Beyond Smoltz and the expectation for another mediocre season by Hudson, what was left in the rotation? A pitcher who hadn’t thrown in 18 months, another who missed half the previous season (and probably should have missed more based on his performance), and another who put up good numbers the year before, but had little in the way of knockout stuff (at the very least, James should have still been considered “unproven” after only half a season in the majors).

So after all the moves made to shore up the bullpen, the above average offensive numbers from the year before, why wouldn’t the starting rotation have been considered this team’s weakness from Spring Training Day 1? And except for the first week of April, the season has borne this out. If Hampton hadn’t been injured in spring training, what was anyone really expecting from his arm?

There was supposedly discussion of bringing back Glavine, and while his arm would be welcome at this point, what does it really say about your rotation when it can be boosted by another 40yr old arm on its last years?

The ultimate problems with the rotation don’t stem from the fact that we didn’t go after Glavine in the offseason, or that Hampton got injured (again), or that Mark Redman isn’t fit to pitch in most beer leagues. The problems with the rotation come from the lack of preparation upstairs - the lack of development in starting pitching and the trades of what few prospects we had to fill some immediate need. You can make the argument that pitching has disappeared all over baseball. But nowhere is it more pronounced than at the once-pithcing-rich Braves.

To proclaim that our rotation troubles appeared without warning, simply says there wasn’t enough attention paid to what is arguably the most important piece of the roster.

By Lew

August 29, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

CandidKid-If I were to offer a suggestion to you involving your anal cavity and your shoving a 2x4 up it, would you perhaps, find it pleasant?

By Lew

August 29, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

CandidKid-I more thing. Thank you ever so much for your cutting edge and poignant analysis. Maybe Anders would enjoy your 2x4 exercise, as well?

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Candid Kid,

I see you can contribute a lot to this blog.

By Anders

August 29, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Lew I’m letting the chips fall where they may with my Mets as a more wordly baseball prognosticator than myself once told me. Worrying about it doesn’t do me any good.

By AlabamaBrave

August 29, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

My bad BamaBrave…I didn’t know there was someone already using that name here.

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

If the Braves aren’t winning enough because of a lack of fire and passion, etc., what about all the other teams that are out of playoff spots? And what happens if every team has the same fire and passion? Baseball has a problem on their hands with all the one-game playoff scenarios, don’t they? Or could it just be teams win and lose based mostly on talent level and not fire and passion?!!

By bubba

August 29, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

“BamaBrave” I’m sorry if my little “fun” with Bobby offended you. I just thought some of this non-stop gloom ‘n’ doom needed some “lightening up”. As has been said on here many times, BC doesn’t read this crap! So, blame me for being non-humorous but not for “picking on Cox”. Read some of the “serious” posts, for that.

By Lew

August 29, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Grinch-No Potatoes for me this morning. None whatsoever. I have never been a big proponent of blaming the manager for a team’s doldrums, though I’m sure there have been instances. No, I prefer to place the blame exactly where it deserves to be placed-on the players who did not produce. To my way of thinking, spending all of those years in the bush leagues, learning a craft that few have the capabilities to play at the ML level and making multi- millions of $$$, receiving major adulation from their fans (and a Lew drawing or two as well) should be more than enough motivation to succeed, IF the talent is there (and it is). I would sooner place the blame on players like Andruw (Oh, I’m so worried they might not resign me and I’ll pout and refuse to make necessary adjustments) Jones than on Bobby Cox. If you can’t play for the ultimate player’s manager, then the fault lies with those who can’t-not the manager.

By Steve

August 29, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

It does seem that the Braves have more bad luck than good luck. But I think that’s only because that Bobby Cox’s strategic and tactical decision making puts the Braves in a perpetual situation where they’re constantly swimming upstream.

So what ends up happening is that when the Braves get a lucky break, it has less likelihood of leading to a win than an unlucky break has of leading to a loss.

The Braves currently have a .511 winning pct. With a marginally competent manager in terms of strategy and tactics, I think the Braves would be playing at a .550 clip. With a really good strategic/tactical manager, I think this Braves team could be playing at or near a .600 clip with their roster.

There is little doubt in my mind that in terms of strategy and tactics, that Bobby Cox is the most lacking of any over the past few decades who has been allowed to manage a team for a prolonged period of time.

He just doesn’t seem to have it within him to analyze situations at a deep and comprehensive level. His problem solving acumen is absolutely abysmal. I feel near certain that an IQ test would show his analytical skills to be lacking.

What that means is that the Braves strategic and tactical moves are in the hands of a simpleton, someone who lacks the brain power to quickly crunch numbers or size up a situation. Is that imprtant? While most regular season baseball games don’t come down to strategy and tactics, plenty do, especially in today’s game where most rosters have sizable holes that need to be nuanced and managed around as much as possible.

I personally think it’s clear as day and night that Cox is in way over his head in this aspect of the game. If his name wasn’t Bobby Cox, then I think a lot more people would be willing to see or acknowledge that.

What I have a difficult time understanding is why JS or others in Braves upper management allow this situation to continue, as certainly they can see that Cox is in way over his head in this particular aspect of the game.

I don’t think Cox should be fired as I think he excels in some of the other aspects of managing that are very important, though not as easily observable as the boneheaded dumb strategic and tactical game-day decisions he engages in.

But in terms of between-the-lines strategy and tactics, someone else needs to be making the calls because expecting Cox to make well-reasoned strategic and tactical moves is probably nearly as unrealistic as expecting one’s pet dog to learn advanced calculus. It’s just not going to happen. I hate to be that blunt, but that’s the situation we’re facing.

By Me-want -to-know

August 29, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Are bubba and the Candy-A$$ Kid the same blogger?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

I hate to sound like a Cox basher but I just don’t get how people refuse to lay some blame at his feet. Its not entirely the players fault. Yes, these guys are pros and theoretically shouldn’t need motivation, but the problem is they have become comfortable thanks to the way Cox manages. His laid back approach can be successful but sometimes more intensity is needed. He doesn’t give them a sense of urgency. He isn’t lighting a fire under these guys. A team is a reflection of its leadership just like often kids are the reflection of their parents. Look at the Braves. Are they not a direct reflection of their mananger? They just go through the motions and talk about how “tomorrow is another day”. They seem to accept medicority and expect greatness to just jump out of nowhere. They go about their business like a bunch of insurance salesman with no emotion or intensity. Well, until it is least needed like last night when Frenchy got himself thrown out of the game.

Compare this team to the Cubs, Cardinals, Tigers, Angles, and even Red Sox. Guys like LaRussa, Francona, and Sciossia aren’t yellers or screamers. However, they demand the best from everybody and nobody is exempt from being benched. In 2005 Francona benched a fan and clubhouse favorite in Millar for not performing. Francona doesn’t just sit there with his arms folded cheering like some drunk little league coach. Sciossia is as stern as they come. Look what he did with Jose Guillen. He demands the very best of his players.

The Cubs, Angels, Cardinals, and Tigers play with emotion and intensity and a sense of urgency. Yeah, the Tigers have struggled but that is more due to injuries than anything. The Braves can’t lay their troubles on injuries.

This team is just flat and there is no reasonable explanation for it. I refuse to blame the players alone or just bad luck. It is more than the pitching. This team doesn’t do fundamentals. They don’t play A-B-C ball. Playing for the three run homer all the time is just stupid. It just is! I’m just so frustrated and irritated and can’t figure out what the hell is going on!

By geauxbraves2000

August 29, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Good morning fellow denizens. Well, what can be said about last night that already hasn’t been said?

Francouer’s aggressiveness is biting him in the butt right now. A little patience would be nice, maybe he’d get a pitch to hit. Oh well.

Tonight’s another night, win this game and the Braves will win the series, which is good.

Time is running out though. 6 back in the division and 5 back in the WC is going to be hard to overcome. Do the Braves have what it takes? I guess we’ll see.

Geaux Braves!!

By Dis is de truth

August 29, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

If a manager is going to be given the credit for 14 Divisional Titles then he is going to have to, at least, share the blame when the wheel runs off.

By TampaBrave

August 29, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

DOB

I come here for the flow of information and ideas. If you, the beat writer and supreme blogmaster, cannot provide that, then I guess we will all have to draw our own pictures.

I thought it was pretty rude, your 11:33pm post. I saw other posts alluding to the same subject, yet, the only thing I get back is that smartass comment. Now you come on this morning and try to play it like I was the bad guy. Nice job!!!!

I know CJ is hurting. I hope it is something he can live with, but the fact that you let it go without a buy or leave tends to make me think you are whipping it for the front office. I’m not saying you are, but leaving out a big tidbit like that could make someone think that.

As for rubbing someone the wrong way, I’ll admit my misgivings, but I have made a concerted effort to preach civility and manners, despite some of the garbage I see on here. I read back over my posts and I don’t see anything that either was offensive or wasn’t true.

The redemption thing was a joke. I didn’t think it was a right hook . I now know that you are very sensitive person and will try to word things a little softer for you. Truce??

By Lew

August 29, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Anders-I’m certainly happy to hear that you are heeding my wisdom, vis a vis the Mets’ poor play. Now, if I could just get you to listen to some more of my profound wisdom and get you to go away-well life would be much nicer, wouldn’t it? It cracks me up that you’re willing to let those proverbial chips fall where they may with the Mets, yet you still have this seemingly perverse, apparently unfulfilled need to instruct us in the fine art of wretchedness recognition. Go away Troll. Haven’t you figured out by now that your analysis is not only flawed, but redundant and totally unwanted in this locale?

By David

August 29, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Who cares about last night’s play???

DOB…Please ask someone why we haven’t developed a front line pitcher…an ACE in 10 years??

By the spin

August 29, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

ANDRUW, ANDRUW, ANDRUW, put the “D” blame where it belongs.It Don’t matter what happens everyone (broadcasters,JS ,BC,DOB) try to cover AJ’s a*#!!!! You can have his Candor. The Braves can get a CF just as good and cheaper to replace AJ. I’m betting on JS to come thru.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

“Me-want-to-know”; Stick your candy up your @$$!!

By BamaBrave

August 29, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

No problem, Alabama Brave… Actually, I’ve wondered about McDowell’s effectiveness as well. Not sure I want Leo back, but I know what you mean.

By Paul In Richmond

August 29, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Quality pitching my aunt - the front office could not predict Hampton being such a flop.

Besides - the Braves have lost at LEAST 7 games because highly paid fielders cannot hit their weight much less steal a base or lead a team.

Absent Andruw we have 15 million more for pitching AND we have a starting lineup with another 40-60 percentage points in batting average.

I guess if I were him I would blame pitching too.

By Lew

August 29, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Steve-You mean that our roster is so good that a good manager could have them playing at .600? You mean like all of those 15 or so teams BC had with all that talent that won? Dude, If he was capable of winning with talent before, why not now? Because he is old an has alzheimers’? Because he all of a sudden he can’t guide talent? Ya think?

Let’s get real. The only difference between the past two years and then is the pitching staff. Now how can you blame that on BC? He works with what he’s given. When given three HOF pitchers for years he won (Yes, I know-only one WS title-whatever). When the HOF pitchers (two, anyway) left, he still won with what he was given, even getting 20 from Russ Ortiz. No, Dude, TW is a main culprit in this instance. They steadfastly refused to provide the level of payroll necessary for a sustained run. They turned their corporate backs on the Braves and attrition caught up with us. BC to blame? Doubt it. Saying he could possibly lose what he had for years in such a short time is like saying I could all of a sudden forget how to paint. Dude, I’m telling you-that ain’t happening and it didn’t with Bobby, either. Just like Frenchy getting tossed last night. It’s on the players-not the manager. As has been said numerous times, he doesn’t hit, field or pitch. The players have to do that (or not). That is THEIR job, not his.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

I am just as much a “Braves Fan” as the rest of you clowns. I just make my comments in 3 or 4 lines and not in Doctoral-Thesis length. And, if those are your thesis’, you flunk!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Shaun, don’t be an idiot. Most of the teams who are out of playoff contention are out of it because of injuries or lack of talent. The Braves are a very talented team. Look at the everyday position players. Put the stupid calculations down and number crunching that could make Babe Ruth look like some overinflated AAA player if you wanted the numbers to make it look that way. This Braves team as a whole is as talented as any team in the NL no matter what a bunch of math geeks say. So, why aren’t they winning.

I know you think that managers don’t really matte that much, Shaun. If that is the case they why not just have some 13 year old come down out of the stands and let him manage the team. C’mon! You really think that Tony LaRussa or Mike Sciossia make a huge difference on their teams?

By rammerjammer

August 29, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Two things are way overrated on this blog…emotion and the bench.

PLENTY of managers win while looking bored. Joe Torre, anyone?

And the bench…good grief. Who’s on the Red Sox bench? The Angels? Who knows and who cares.

You don’t hear anyone saying, “Yeah, our bench is why we’re in first. Forget the pitchers and the batters. It’s all about the bench.”

What matters is the pitching - especially the starters - and the regular lineup of 8-9 guys.

The Braves have had too many pitching injuries to have a great season. In a short series, they would be the team no one wants to play.

But over 162 games, you can’t compete with 2-3 reliable starters. You just can’t.

By BamaBrave

August 29, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

bubba, I would echo most of what Robert has said above (11:57) regarding Bobby Cox. He is to blame for some of our woes, past and present. No question, IMO. So he should catch some flak…but he’s not a complete imbecile, as your humor would suggest. Hey, joke away, brutha…it’s a free blog. Don’t let me ruin the mood for you.

By Efrim

August 29, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

David

Comments like that will get you destroyed on this blog. Not by me, but by others. I have brought it up before. People will say to you that other teams haven’t although they haven’t looked around the league to see pitchers like Joba Chamberlain, Tim Lincecum, Jered Weaver, Yovani Gallardo help their teams.

Remember these names: Thomas Hanson and Cole Rohrbough.

By David O'Brien

August 29, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Good points, Rammerjammer. Well said.

NEW BLOG IS UP, or will be in seconds….

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Why can’t folks see that sometimes “players managers” aren’t needed. “Players managers” are like “cool” parents. Sure, they are great to be around and the kids really like them. They like them because they can basically do whatever they want. The parents install some rules that are superficial when you really get down to it. But, when it comes to laying down the hammer or instilling real discipline, they don’t do it. They want the child to be their “own person”. Well, a “players manager” is the same way. Its great that Cox has rules about guys not having their music blaring and cell phones being turned off. But, what about making players be accountable for swinging at pitches 10 inches off the plate? What about ripping guys a new one for not running hard down to 1B? What about instituting a rule that makes every player to have to stretch before a game? What about a rule that demands his guys give their best each AND every game? What about a rule that states players do what it takes to win games and not pad their power stats. Oh, scratch that one. They probably do want to do that but daddy tells them to go for it all!

Here is the question I have. Does this team look this flat with Pinella or LaRussa or Leyland at the helm? And, don’t give me that bs about Pinella sucks and Leyland is out of touch. Pinella has his team in first and Leyland’s team still has an actual shot at the playoffs.

By Lew

August 29, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

On a different topic-Just read that Leona Helmsley just left $12 million to her dog and wrote into her will that when it died, it would be entombed with her in her mausoleum. Maybe that would have been the better option for Michael Vick, as well, who will, apparently be entombed because of dogs-not with them. As Serbok said in the wee hours-GO BUCS.

By Anders

August 29, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Lew My chips fall where they may comment was sarcasm. You may have heard of it. It’s what Boras will be using when he says that Tex will be glad to sign at a home town discount because he loves to play where it’s 105 degrees in the shade and you can’t sell out the first round playoff games.

BTW- I’ve been more right than wrong on this blog and you know it. Much more. Perhaps this is what makes you so angry? Sorry I won’t drink the Lew koolaid, but I’ve certainly noticed more people taking exception with you today. Perhaps thats because you sound almost maniacal about defending your position.

By DAP

August 29, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

I come here for the flow of information and ideas.

this blog is a good place to go for this. the blog master does a good job keeping us informed, and there are many other seemingly astute bloggers who provide many interesting stats and ideas. this blog functions very well.

however, the blog master does not, and cannot take orders from the bloggers, because we dont pay him. the blog master wisely writes the stories his boss asks him to first, and then answers us when he can, and spends alot more time answering specific questions from us than he has to.

but then we have some bloggers who think of themselves very highly, and see the blog masters job as serving them. thier arrogance causes them to rudely demand answers to specific questions, and become indignant when put in their place by the blog master.

this blogger continues to talk about how great he is, even during a “truce” speech. dude, you are uncivil, have no manners, and the Garbage” you see on this blog is your own posts.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

“BamaBrave” I assure you that you can not “ruin the mood” for me. I am much too thick-skinned for that. But, I do appreciate your polite reply. Have a good ‘un.

By Shaun

August 29, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

This blog has become all about Cox-bashing and jump-off-a-bridge pessimism.

Is anyone at least open to the possibility that the Braves are playing up to or maybe even exceeding what should have been our expectations?

I mean a lot of the forecasters who use objective means—running it through extremely detailed systems to get likely outcomes—had the Braves at a few games above .500…which is right where they are.

And they’ve gotten horrible seasons from Andruw and the fifth spot in the rotation for the most part. And Bob Wickman certainly had his struggles.

Just trying to balance out the pessimism with what may be some realism. I can say for myself, maybe I thought more of this team at the beginning of the season because of my own biases. With the exception of Andruw and Wickman, no one is really playing that far outside of the realm of what we’d reasonable expect and a lot of guys are playing better.

Maybe all the doom and gloom also is coming from our emotions—it stinks when your team is close but can’t seem to get over the hump. But maybe this is exactly what we should have expected from the beginning.

Also, has anyone noticed Arizona is only one game up now? They’ve lost six of their last nine games. Meanwhile the Pads have won seven of their last nine. Could this be part of the market correction both teams were due for? I hear Pythagoras whispering in our ears!

And while I’m rambling and speaking of Pythagoras, the Braves can’t keep this up for long, can they? They’re also due for a slight correction.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

August 29, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, I don’t think emotion or the bench are overrated topics at all. First of all, using Torre as an example isn’t a good idea. The Yanks are in very real danger of not making the playoffs and its largely due to them going through the motions early in the year. The Yanks have won the games they have won by beating up on lesser teams and by an offense that has an all-star at every position.

As for the bench, it is not as important in the AL. Remember, the pitcher doesn’t hit in the AL, so the use of the bench is nowhere near as prevelant as it is in the NL. But, since you bring the bench up regarding the Angles and Red Sox I will talk about them. The Sox have guys like Cora, Kielty, and Mirabelli who are huge contributors to that team. The Angels have guys like Aybar and Itzuris who are solid contributors.

No, the bench isn’t the sole reason this team is struggling but lets get real here. When it is better to send up Jo Jo Reyes or Chuck James to pinch hit over your supposed hitters, there is a problem. It is that plain and that simple!

By fastasballs

August 29, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

Well if no fault is to be given to Cox & since he’s not responsible for anything that occurs before, during & after the game, then what exactly does the man do? In the great run of division titles Cox was anoited as “King” of managers, yet now that they are losing he is responsible & accountable for nothing?

They are not losing because of lack of talent. They simply can’t win tight games anymore. Yes players play the game, but a good manager puts the players in a position to win because of the decisions he makes. Willie isn’t hitting his weight the last 20 games, but he’s still batting leadoff even after Escobar has succeeded in the lead off role quite a bit of late. Why is he still starting at all much less setting the table? He has failed countless times to get guys in from 3rd with less than 2 out. Diaz doesn’t have that problem.

The platoon role in left has worked amazingly well up until the past 3-4 weeks. Just one half of the platoon is failing, the other is hitting .350 & can hit a RHP just as easily as a RHP. It’s crunch time, wins are needed, therefore you play the hot hand no matter who it is.

No I don’t think Cox needs to be committed to an old folks home, but I never recall this many mistakes being made to cost games or lower the percentage of many to be won.

By Ron

August 29, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Well we are done in the Wildcard, but for some reason we actually control our own destiny in the East!!! I don think we will win the East, but if we somehow win 5 out of 6 against BOTH the Mets AND Phillies, and beat the other teams we can win the East!!! But of course I aint holding my breath on that one!!! We gotta get A Good #3 Starter and potentially a #5 starter, and Strenthin our bench!!! And then RESIGN Tex!!! Other than that it looks good to go!!!

By ijonathan

August 29, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Bubba The length of your posts are commensurate with their value and interest.

By Lew

August 29, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Anders-Re: the Kool Aid-return to the original source of that symbolism and partake. No one respects you or much of anything you have to say. Like has been said before Troll, Quit trying to convince us and leave. Your Mets suck and they are in dire peril of losing to the Phillies-the team with horrible pitching. What’s your lead now, Troll Boy? Wait until we hand the Mets their @$$e$ once again this weekend and you may no longer have a lead at all. Look to the mote in thine own eye before you attempt to remove the log in your brothers’. Be it the Braves or the Phillies, the Mets are going down.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

Where does it say in the “rules” that you can’t say something critical of BC without being branded as **disloyal” or a troll? I am the first to admit that BC’s “way” has worked wonders in the past. But, his “way” is not working now.

Borrowing from my earlier “ship” analogy: when the ship goes on the rocks it is the fault of the Captain even if he is in his cabin, asleep. Because, he is responsible for training the crew and what they do with that training. Telling the Court of Inquiry that it was the “crew’s” fault, will not “wash”. It doesn’t wash here, either.

It was time, months ago, for BC to crack the whip,and he hasn’t even snapped his fingers. He has allowed insouciance and ineptitude to be rampant and now he must take the blame. And if you can’t see that, welcome Alice, to Wonder Land.

I know this is longer than my self-imposed 3 or 4 lines, but it is as short as I could make it.

By bubba

August 29, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

“ijonathan” That “i” stands for idiot, right?

By matt

August 29, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Lets just comme to grips with the fact that the Braves just don’t have what it takes to be a consistently commpetitive team! They only have 2 reliable starters. 1 reliable reliever. No base stealers. I mean…do I need to keep going?? You can’t win with only 3 reliable pitchers on a team!!

Are our farm system guys really that far off that we have to rely on Pete Orr, who batted .240 after being sent to AAA, and Chris Woodward as our go to guys off the bench???? REALLY??? PETE ORR AND CHRIS WOODWARD????

By Bobby's Cox

August 29, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

The team has a good #3 starter…his name is Cormier. Cut the guy some slack, his 1st 2 starts came against the cubs and a soriano that finally broke loose. He’s been somewhat decent since.

The problems of this team are the #4 & 5 starters, no bullpen whatsoever, no bunting, no running, no clutch hitting, no consist hitting, no pitching in the minors, and suddenly since june(ish) a bunch of sour attitudes.

Y’all can blame:

1. Bullpen injuries
2. Cox for the attitudes
3. McDowell for conitnually telling his pitchers to pitch on the inner-half of the plate
4. JS for not firing McDowell
5. JS for not getting a starter
6. MLB for lack of a starter to trade for
7. JS & his scouting team for not drafting good pitchers
8. Pendleton for putting andruw in this wide stance a few years back, which has him totally off balance and clueless now
9. JS for signing woodward, wilson, & COX & JS for keeping woodward & thorman & now Orr on the bench.

By Bobby's Cox

August 29, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Amen Matt.

Chris woodward makes a game-changing error every game he plays, and has all year. Like his Mendoza batting average isn’t enough? Is JS’s ego really that high where he has to prove to us that this was really a good signing? I’m sure the mets are laughing their @ss’s off all the way to October.

By Bobby's Cox

August 29, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

i’m just gonna keep blogging all day, because i love this team and hate how it came to be.

I agree about cox. He preserves his players well, but when push comes to shove, change your ways man. Diaz has been the best hitter on this team for the past 2 years, and he’s still platooning? Willie can’t field, can’t throw, can’t steal, and now can’t even hit. Bench him and save him for the 9th for when mccann gets on base. What ever happened to that strategy? Or what about bunting guys over after you get the first 2 on in an inning?

This team relies too much on the long ball, can’t string together 3+ hits, or score runners in scoring position. It’s pathetic. Sure they may have a high team BA, but that’s only because of the occasional blowout. This team needs a strategy at the plate. I’ve been saying that though for 10 years.

What ever happened to the hit-and-run play? The steal? Pitching hitters low and away?

Man does this team need to find answers quick…if it isn’t too late.

Everyone on here’s been talking about the passion…i don’t see it either. You don’t need a sign from management to lay down a bunt.

By JDTHEBRAVE

August 29, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

WOWW. THESE POSTINGS BY YOU SUPPOSED BRAVES FANS REMINDS ME OF WATCHING THE BRAVES IN THE PLAYOFFS AND WONDERING WHY NO ONE WAS STANDING OR CHEERING UNLESS THERE WERE TWO STRIKES AND TWO OUTS IN THE NINTH AND WE WERE UP BY ONE RUN. THANK YOU FOR REINFORCING MY THOUGHTS THAT BRAVE FANS ARE THE WORST FANS IN BASEBALL. EVEN WORSE THAN THE BATTERY TOSSING METS FANS. GIVE IT TWO WEEKS AND THEN YOU CAN START THE WHINING AND BIT!@#$% ABOUT HOW THE BRAVES CANT GET A HIT WITH RISP AND HOW BOBBY COX HAS NO CLUE WHAT HE IS DOING. SHUT THE F#@$ UP ALREADY. HAVE ANY OF YOU IDIOTS EVER PLAYED BASEBALL IN YOUR LIFE. GOOD HITTERS GO INTO SLUMPS NO MATTER WHAT SACK OF SHI# IS PITCHING OR NOT. YES BC SHOULD STEAL MORE AND IS QUESTIONABLE ABOUT WHO HE BRINGS INTO THE GAME LATE BUT WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE MAKING THOSE DECISIONS ,TP, WHO HAS HAD NO IDEA HOW TO FIX ANDRUWS SWING FOR THE LAST THREE MONTHS. YOU ALL MAKE ME GLAD I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA AND CAN ROOT FOR THE BRAVES FROM AFAR SO I DONT HAVE TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOU PEOPLE. BUT IF I EVER AM LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET TO SEE A PLAYOFF GAME IN ATLANTA YOU CAN BET I WILL BE STANDING THE WHOLE GAME. LOSERSSSSS P.S. NASCAR SUCKS

By Bobby's Cox

August 29, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

JD:

way to go man…i agree about the nascar part..it does suck.

i live in CA too..and i also agree that Atlanta fans suck.