AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > August > 23 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USPlaying .500 ball won’t get it done
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Pardon me, if I’m a little hazy in this blog. Just got in from a run.
Some fool decided to run outside because it was hot in the hotel workout room (No AC, at least I figured outside, I might catch a breeze). And you’re gonna listen to that same person try to make some sense out of the Braves current state of being?
But just for kicks, before we get to it, let’s look up the temperature in Cincy. That’s probably something I should have done before leaving on the run, but hey…. Oh for the love of goodness, gracious. It’s 97 out. Feels like 100. No wonder I feel like I’m about to pass out.
Anyway, where were we? The Braves, the .500-ish Braves. Somebody pointed out to me last night after the game that the Braves are a .500 team since late April. I looked it up, and it’s April 27 to be exact. Since then, the Braves are 53-53.
As I pointed out in my game story last night, they’re .500 since the All-Star break (19-19), .500 on the last homestand (3-3), and now hoping to get out of Cincinnati today with a 2-2 split.
(I think they have a decent shot at winning tonight, by the way, with EZ Ramirez on the mound for the Reds - he lost his first start up this year and wasn’t pitching that great in AAA. The key might be whether the Braves can score any runs against the Reds bullpen. The Braves are making it look way too good at the moment: eight shutout innings in the last two games.)
But let’s get back to the .500 thing for a second, see if we can’t have some fun. What else is there to do?
The Braves went 14-14 in May, 13-13 in July. Against everybody in the NL East other than the Mets, they are 18-18. As one of the denizens pointed out last night, they’re 10-10 with Mark Teixeira on the team now. Anybody got another one?
I had a feeling I was going to be so on with this next one, but I just missed. The Braves need to win the next two games to be .500 on games I cover them. They’re 16-18 when I’m on the clock. No wonder I appear the pessimist of this blogging space in my moments.
A team playing .500 ball down the stretch is going to have a hard time making the playoffs. Braves know that. That’s why they’ve got to do something more than hang on for the next week.
And we’ve done a pretty good job hashing through the Braves problems in these parts, thought I’d pass along some things going on around the pennant race of note from the national notes group I belong to:
From Paul Hagen of the Philadelphia Daily News:
“Nobody likes to hear teams whine about injuries, but the Phillies really have been hammered this season. The latest to go on the DL was star LHP Cole Hamels, sidelined with what is being called a “very mild” elbow strain. Assistant general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. called the results of the MRI Hamels underwent on Wednesday “good news, considering.”
Still, Hamels was unable to make his scheduled start Wednesday night against the Dodgers. And the Phillies lost, 15-3, with J.D. Durbin moving up a day to take his place in the rotation. And they had LHP Fabio Castro set to make his first major league start Thursday afternoon. So everything is relative.
Hamels became the 19th different player to see DL time this year. So, as tiresome as it is to hear, it really is kind of amazing that they were just a game out in the wild card standings (behind the Padres, who come to town this weekend) and five games behind the first-place Mets going into play Thursday.
Hamels attributed the start of his problem to throwing off a shoddy bullpen mound in Washington before a start last week.”
And also, from Hagen:
“The rotation is currently Durbin, Castro Kyle Lohse, Kyle Kendrick and veteran Jamie Moyer. Only Moyer has been in the Phillies rotation all season. RHP Adam Eaton is expected to come off the DL in time to start against the Mets next Tuesday.
Second baseman Chase Utley, who had his hand broken July 26, should be back no later than Monday, when the Phillies open an important 4-game series against the Mets at Citizens Bank Park.”
And a little something from Dan Graziano of the Newark Star-Ledger:
“Jeff Conine was pleased to be traded from a fifth-place team to a first-place team on Monday. Looking ahead to October, and expecting his new team to be playing there, Conine mused Tuesday that he’d only been to the playoffs twice - with the Marlins in 1997 and again with the Marlins in 2003 - and has won the World Series both times.
“I don’t want to mess up that streak,” he said.
Funny story. The Mets originally put Conine in Pedro Martinez’s locker, which has been empty all year while Pedro rehabs from shoulder surgery. But when (Mets PR guy) Jay Horwitz realized everybody was going to make fun of them and point this out in the papers, he scrambled and got the clubbies to move Conine to the locker that had belonged to Anderson Hernandez, who was sent down to make room for Conine.
“My stuff will probably be over on that table over there later,” Conine said, when told he’d been assigned Martinez’s locker.
Conine is the latest former Marlin to join the Mets, including Moises Alou, Carlos Delgado, Paul Lo Duca, Guillermo Mota, Luis Castillo, Ramon Castro and maybe another guy or two I’m forgetting.
“It feels like the first day of school,” Conine said. “This is like Florida Marlins Northeast. Obviously, I have a lot of experience with about a half-dozen guys, and that should make the transition easier.”
Conine has said he expects to retire at the end of this season.”
Do the Braves need to find some more Marlin re-treads? Let’s see, we’ve got Edgar Renteria and Ron Mahay. Who am I missing? Oh yeah, our own David O’Brien, former Marlin hack for the Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel….Hey, maybe that’ll pull him out of his vacation and onto the blog again. Ha ha HA!
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Comments
By Stephen
August 23, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
Nope, it won’t.
By Andy
August 23, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
No comments about Renteria after that bizarre one pitch at bat last night? Is there any news on that front?
By bravenation
August 23, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
first
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Phillies have played very well considering the injuries. Lots of guts on that team.
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Boy! That was quick! Thank you, ma’am!
By norcrossfan
August 23, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
somehow, i don’t see the braves catching the mets or the padres. i can’t imagine anyone in the rotation behind smoltz/hudson catching fire or even simply pitching consistently/winning.
too bad hampton was out all this year. we could’ve used him!
By ArkyTech
August 23, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
16-18? So Carroll, does that mean you’re the problem? Can you pitch?
By Stephen
August 23, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
I was first, but nice try :)
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
No, playing .500 ball won’t get it done … so it’s time to stop worrying about winning percentages … that probably was never too good of an idea anyway … and try to do your best to win each and every game, like you’ve been doing all year!
It’s a team game involving everybody … manager, coaches, players … we have a great group of individuals … let’s play the nine giving us our best chance and let’s win tonight’s game! We are better that those guys, you betcha … but, don’t tell ‘em: show them!
Monty, from the last Blog … I didn’t see your post comparing Andruw’s RBI and HR totals … but since nobody considers him to be a great hitter, why would it strike a nerve?
Just having you on but it is something I ponder … I’ve always thought he could be one of the all time great hitters … he’s got the toolbox but it’s locked and he’s never found the key.
Besides, methinks RBI totals are meaningless … I would think the better comparison would be ones of production to opportunity ratios and ultimate disposition ratios (those scoring out of those on base when the hitter came to bat).
Homeruns don’t tell me much about a hitter either … what is the best available “doing the job” statistical index that compares hitters? … I don’t know but swinging at ball four and hitting a flyball, that happens to clear the fence; when a walk wins the game, isn’t doing the job … and is not indicative of a good hitter.
Time for a late lunch …
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this
Carroll , .500 stinks and it’s the pitching that is the problem , starting pitching in particular. Now , before anybody tries to say that there wasn’t any pitching available at the trading deadline , I say HOGWASH ! Kason Gabbard has went 5-1 with a 3.56 ERA since he was traded from Boston to Texas for Eric Gagne. I think Schuerholz missed the mark when he traded the farm for Teixeira. I have just one suggestion for 2008 that will fix all this , Tom Glavine. Give the guy a one year contract for 2008 and if Hampton makes it back even better. The Braves would have a real solid veteran rotation capable of not only blowing the rest of the competition out of the water , a rotation of Hudson , Smoltz , Glavine , Hampton and James would carry them deep into the playoffs. Just a thought……but a good one.
By Carroll Rogers
August 23, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Andy, i just got to the stadium. we actually have to get down to the clubhouse and talk to folks and do some reporting before we can post anything about renteria, ok? you can bank he’s not playing tonight, and i’ll get you informed as soon as i can.
arky tech, no pitching for me. but i can run in the heat! i could probably score you a run every once in a while in a pinch.
By Dave
August 23, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Tonight starts an 8-2 run and the wildcard lead. The bounces are now going to go the Braves way. The Chipper “just missed a homer” last night was the final piece of the bad luck streak. Next time it goes out of the park.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Puzzled in Seatle How was that a Brainfart? What I am SURE you thought that Weaver would not have done what he did!!! But yet my post was a brainfart!!! Great post by you!!! LOL!!!
By Renegator
August 23, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
Carroll = stating the obvious.
Of course playing .500 ball won’t get it done - but that’s what the Braves have been doing since the first week of the season.
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Good as my word and I may post it again for the “night crowd”.
I will probably repost this later in the day for two reasons. First, it may get lost in all of these tomes being cranked out today. Also, some people do not go back 1 cycle-of-posts, much less to the “beginning”. That is why, I guess, that we get 25 posts a day saying the same thing. Some people are content to leave themselves, “thread”-bare, so to speak.
Several people, whose advice I value, have told me that my “kidding’ is too rough, even harsh. In my defense I will say that, of late, my “humor” has been as much directed at myself as at others. Also, I take “good-natured” ribbing, good-naturedly. So, be critical, but also be objective.
Yes, I react to people talking down to me, or “preaching” to me—some would say—“violently”. But, I have sufficient education and a preacher of my own so that I will not take the former, and I don’t need the latter.
But, I am turning over a proverbial new leaf. I will only “kid” with my “friends” who know how to take it, and me. As for you others, if I address you at all, it will be straight-forwardly and “humorless”.
One final thing, however, if you choose, on your own, to take “exception” with/to me, you will continue to do so at your own risk.
By chipdip
August 23, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
If we can’t get another starter before the 31st….we can just forget about this year…time to focus for the next!!!
By Ron
August 23, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
This was on the previous blog, but it was toward the end!!!
Well IF JS decides to go after another starter, then it MIGHT be too damn late!!! No doubt he should try to get one, BUT IF he went out and got Silva at the END of July, we would be tied OR in the lead of the Wildcard RIGHT NOW!!! Listen people Silva would have been our PERFECT #4 Starter for us!!! Carlyle has pitched like a #4 or 5 ALL year EXCEPT his Last 2 starts!!! Carlyle would be our #5 if Silva was here!!! And James has pitched Solid this year also, Except for his Last 2 starts!!! Silva WOULD have brought BALANCE to this team!!! And the Twins GM Ryan is NOT a dumbass, he would NOT have wanted the Moon for him!!! He did NOT take hardly nothing for Castillo!!! And Silva is a free agent at the end of the year!!! The most we would have given up is probably Thorman and a descent minor leaguer!!! But I guess JS did not see it the way I do!!! Thats a shame too!!! I am the ONE that said we needed a starter at the deadline!!! Yes I know there was no great starter out there, but Silva would have done wonders for this rotation!!! Most of this blog said in JULY that this rotation is good, we dont need no stinkin starter, Tex is the answer, get him forget about the starter!!! We are good to go!!! Reyes is more than OK in the 5th starter role!!! LOL!!! Thats what more than HALF of you guys said!!! Well It looks like I was right about that and yall were well wrong about that!!! I wish I was wrong, but not the case!!! I said BEFORE we got Tex we might win the Wildcard, and I STILL say that!!! I have NOT given up on the Wildcard!!! Its just funny to me seeing the SAME people who said in July that our Starters are FINE, and NOW screaming and saying that our 3-5 are crap!!! LOL!!! What yall expected Carlyle NOT to have a bumpy road at all, I think he will be fine, but I knew he would hit a tough stretch SOONER than later!!! What Yall thought that Reyes would be the answer, especially after JUST 2 starts!!! LOL!!! Some of yall JUST lost ALOT of credibility when yall said ALL of that!!! LOL!!! And some of yall call Coach a fool because he was SMART enough to realize that we needed pitching NOT more hitting!!! Tex has been Great for us, but IF ONLY JS would have gotten Silva, we might be leading OR tied with the Wildcard!!! Some of yall are gonna say Silva, your crazy for even saying that!!! AM I? What did Weaver do for the Cardinals last year? I rest my case!!! Yall keep mentioning the Damn Cardinals day in and day out, so why not me mention them!!! Silva could have brought Balance, BUT JS did NOT see that!!! Thats a DAMN SHAME!!!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
We have a new problem—- if the dodgers beat the phillies, they will tie us in the race for the WC, so if we lose today we will drop to 4th place in WC standings. If we win, we will remain 3rd percentage points behind the phillies (lost column).
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
one thing has become apparent. The 2006 Mets were not a fluke and they will prove that by clinching the NL East.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this
Dodgers added to their lead with stolen base and then a hit to LF.
See shaun it aint that hard.
Small basic thing, and all this against flash gordon.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Harry Kalas sounds as depressed as you could hear a broadcaster as the phillies are 2 behind and dodgers ready to add to lead.
Thinks dont look any better in philly than they do in atlanta.
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
Speaking of pitching. Hudson/Smoltz are 6-1 with a 3.50 ERA and seven quality starts in August. The rest of the rotation hasn’t won a game in two weeks , they are 2-6 with an ERA of 7.39 , Yikes !
By Anders
August 23, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
Carroll “What are you going to tell us next, Conine’s favorite color? Is this what people come here for? Met stories about new acquisitions. These Braves are playing for their playoff lives. Please tell me you haven’t pinned their hopes on locker assignments and players organizational histories.”
Jack Nicholson - A Few Good Men.
By Lew
August 23, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
Playing for the Divison? Playing for the Wild Card? What does it matter if we don’t win ballgames? Time’s a wastin’. We need to win and not worry about divisions, WC’s Mets or Phillies. Win and it all becomes moot. Lose and it all becomes moot, as well. I was certainly not in favor of picking up the Human Rain Delay, Trachsel, but at this point he can’t be any worse than anyone we’ve tried. Cormier wasn’t too bad last night. Hopefully Carlyle will come back strong tonight. Reyes needs to learn to throw strikes-at Richmond.
By sportsmandh
August 23, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
Coach, The BoSox traded Gabbard for Gagne b/c they wanted bullpen help. Think they would have traded him for Wickman? No, I don’t think so. JS tried to get John Garland for Edgar and the Chi Sox wouldn’t take it. If you think they haven’t tried to bring in some starting pitching help you’re crazy.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
runners at 1st and 3rd for LA and noone out and they are trying for hit and run…… they have tried 3 times, WOOOW!!!!!! it is a good idea.
you see shaun
By Miss Manners, Asst.
August 23, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
RON!!!!! darling, please do not use that other “f” word before the kids are in bed. It is gauche.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
The NL East will end as follows: Mets(95-66) Phillies braves Marlins National
By Young
August 23, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
Braves are the first in MLB history to have four count them 4 starting pitcher with records of 0-X (X indicates the number of game lost). This is the reason we cannot win more than two in a row. We need to win 7 or 8 consecutively, but how can a baby run when the baby does not know know to walk. The Braves need to learn this logic. Braves will never ever make to playoffs again. The last fourteen which they won will account for championships for the next 1,000,000 years so buy loto or use your mouth to suck all the salt water out of pacific ocean, you will have a better chance that way.
By AJC Accounts Receivable .
August 23, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Mr. RON!!!!!, you have exceeded your free-word count for the day. We must charge you 10 cents@word for any further utterances. Also, it will be double for stupidity.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
I love it when you get philisophical LEW. It suits you well when you stay away from the IF’s & Maybe’s. I hope after the season is over and the Mets win the division we could still be friends. We can stay up late and talk basecall. I’ll still respect you in the morning……Promise.
By BamaBrave
August 23, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Thanks for that Breaking News, NCZ…
By Young
August 23, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Braves are the first team in MLB history to have four count them 4 starting pitchers with records of 0-X (X indicates the number of game lost). This is the reason we cannot win more than two in a row. We got losers. We need to win 7 or 8 consecutively, but how can a baby run when the baby does not know know to walk. The Braves need to learn this logic. Braves will never ever make to playoffs again. The last fourteen which they won will account for championships for the next 1,000,000 years so buy loto or use your mouth to suck all the salt water out of pacific ocean, you will have a better chance that way.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Carroll To be fair the Mets have had their share of DL this season: El Duque Moises Alou Shawn Green Endy Chavez Ambioroux Burgos Jorge Sosa Dave Williams Damion Easely Carlos Beltran Paul Loduca Ramon Castro Pedro Martinez
I generally don’t bring up injury issues but I think we need to keep the Phillies accomplishment in perspective- they’re not alone.
By Lew
August 23, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
Ron-What you seemingly fail to realize is that A.There were no decent starters available at the deadline whose price tag was equitable and B. We got Tex as much to replace Andruw’s bat in the lineup NEXT season as much as for any contribution he makes now. I think they will make him a reasonable long term offer. What price, exactly, were you willing to pay for anyone teams were willing to part with? Even if they had paid the ridiculous price, how long would it be before you were griping about mortgaging our future for a quick fix? If it’s not one thing, it will be another. No matter what move they make, someone will b!tch about it.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
Wayne, we’re used to young master Payne, and a fine young man he is too … but his family asked that we refrain from things like “Shaun my friend, you have got it dead right this time” … they have to live with him.
Methinks we’re still in control of our own destiny … let’s worry about us, not them … at least those of us who are the worrying kind.
Regarding Edgar … what’s the latest news … “After that pitch, I felt pain … I heard it pop” doesn’t sound good. Hard to comprehend how we could have been caught so unaware.
The sky is clear, the grass is brown … methinks it’s time to turn things around!
By TN Jeff
August 23, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
Did my own homework - when was the last time the Braves won a game scoring 4 runs or fewer?
Answer - July 23rd victory by John Smoltz over San Fran 4-2. Exactly one month. In fact it’s the game since the All-Star break that they’ve won when scoring 4 runs or fewer. In all they’ve won 11 times out of 127 games when scoring 4 runs or fewer.
Here’s hoping for at least 5 runs tonight - actually since Carlisle is pitching, hoping for 11 runs.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
Carroll’s new blog sounds mysteriously like what I have been saying for the past two months.
Good job, Carroll. Now I am going to go out and run in the heat.
Maybe I will lose consciousness due to heat exhaustion and miss another heartbreaking Braves’ loss to a horrible pitcher that they have never faced in the past.
But, hey, 35 games left. They can still go 35-0 and win the division. That is, of course, until they lose tonight.
The preceeding post was brought to you by a Braves fan who occassionally employs sarcasm.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Overlord I tried to tell you guys how complicated this whole WC thing gets but Lew and the boys think I’m just a Met fan trying to brainwash everyone. You need to have all the teams close to you start losing now, evne if they’re playing the Mets who it’s not as realistic for you to catch. Especially because the West coast guys because they play each other at the end of the year - they can’t both lose, so you can’t pick up ground on everyone each night later in September. It’s a whole different race than the division. My two cents.
By coachk
August 23, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
is someone on this team going to catch a case of the red a* cause I got one, this is bs why can’t anyone with all the pitchers we have figure out how to pitch you made it this farand we can score 14one night and 2 the next. we still have a shot will someone on this team step up and show some guts and get an attitude
By Paladin .
August 23, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
NCZ Where were you doing “good times”? You are like locusts and plague; we only see you during “dark times”. Hopefully, you will learn to have the class of Anders—although I doubt it—and come on both ends of the cyclical curve.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 23, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
blog is acting funny for jimmy smith. hit “post” and nothing happens. watch this one post twice. oh, well, twice the fun.
suddenly and without warning there was a new blog …
girlfriend rumors are confirmed. dob is now blogging that, “we” watched a movie. dob is getting passenger pegs, too. love is in the air.
now, how does dob transport anne cox chambers’ walker when riding the bike?
speaking of girlfriends … this journalist used to date a girl with the last name carlisle. spelled much like carlyle, only different. and anyway, this girl had great dexterity which jimmy smith always appreciated.
perhaps buddy carlyle will prove to have a different type dexterity in tonight’s game. dexterity can be a very good thing.
now, if the rumor is true (started by a new blogger today) that chipper is goin’ a huntin’ the first week of october … hmmm….
“We offer two hunts per year personally guided by Atlanta Braves’ third baseman, Chipper Jones. This is a unique opportunity to visit one-on-one with Chipper while hunting genetically superior and professionally game-managed whitetails on some of the most impressive hunting land in the country, here in the heart of Texas’ well-known “Golden Triangle”.
oh, the humanity! dabbling in genetics? could be the reason for the chin hair. could be a clone with better toes. whitetails that talk, “uh”. whitetails at the dinner table? whitetails as sleazy reporters?
and now medical advice for edgar renteria. see if doc can check edgar out before returning again. akso, support hose. that’s right - support hose. fishnets. oh, the thought is not a pleasant one!
and now, wurlitzer talk has died down some but jimmy smith would like to say to lew, “your and idiot” if lew doesn’t accept the gratitude of all bloggers and the gratitude that surely will be shown by the atlanta braves organization and the atlanta newspapers for lew’s selfless acts. will happen, right? lew will get an appropriate recognition? perhaps a canned ham?
By Lew
August 23, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
NoBrainZone-Still be friends? Give me a flippin break, you moronic Little Troll. You’re not my friend now. You never have been and never will be. As far as I’m concerned, you’re a smarmy Little Weasel with extraordinarily bad taste in baseball teams. I don’t want to talk to you about baseball or anything else now or in the future. Besides, I’m way too old to hang out with any elementary school students who aren’t my grandchildren-and I don’t have any grandchildren. Go bother someone who might care-on a Mets’ blog. The Mets still haven’t won anything-last year, either (remember telling us division titles don’t mean anything?). Who was it asking for a portrait of Beltran peeing his pants over a Wainwright curve? Can’t remember. Too many requests. It would be one of my most popular portraits-if I had the stomach to draw a Met in the first place.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
TN Jeff good HW, that says a lot.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Well said Anders. If the Mets don’t suffer all those injuries the Mets would have a double digit lead by now and the division would have been decided. Don’t tell LEW I said that. He’s real sensitive about the truth.
By Renegator
August 23, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Phillies lost so Braves are now 1/2 game in back of them and tied with the Dodgers…
Need a win tonight to stay alive. If too many teams pass the Braves in the Wild Card standings it will be harder to win.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
No Chop Zone, don’t the napkin dispensers at the Long John Silvers need to be filled. I’m sure your supervisors aren’t going to be happy with you blogging on company time when the malt vinegar packages are also running low. So, get back to work, okay!
Now, on to more intellignet forms of life. I think it is time to make a run at Wells or Trachsel. At this point what do the Braves have to lose?
By John B.
August 23, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
Anders: Well, the Braves have had their fair share of injuries too. Wickman, Gonzalez, Hampton, Chipper, Edgar, Chuck James, Dotel, Cormier. That’s not even all of our injuries, those are just key guys. Teams get hurt, that’s baseball. Don’t make it look like the Mets have accomplished so much without some of your guys. I’d say losing Hampton and Gonzo was way worse than any player on your team.
By Renegator
August 23, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
True: The Braves typically get OWNED by AAA pitchers just called up that they haven’t seen before. Could be an ugly night.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
A truly funny story …. the Mets putting Conine in Pedro Martinez’s locker, which has been empty all year … I’ll bet it was uncomfortable!
TN Jeff, thanks for the info … I didn’t realize that they had won 11 … how many did they lose? If you have it handy, what is the distribution of games played by runs scored?
By monty
August 23, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
RON JOURNALIST, I appreciate you diagreeing with me without calling me names. My point was that Andrew IS having a crappy year by his standards even though he is playing hurt. To some that is no excuse.Forget that he almost won the MVP 2 years ago and carried the team with game winning hits while Chipper was hurt. THat said, he has decent Homerun and RBI totals compared with the elite hiters of the game. Are those team’s fans bashing their guys for not hitting up to their potential? Me thinks not! Manny, Ortiz, Berkman,and others are having down years. Andrew is hurt,Geez give the guy a break. The last time I checked 2 out of the 3 categories for the elusive triple crown are Homeruns and RBI’s. To hear some bloggers those things don’t matter anymore. I guess they ought to have a new award for on base percentage and situational hitting. Besides I would never pay to watch Manny, Ortiz, or Berkman play defense, because they can’t. Andrew can.
By Miss Mush
August 23, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
Who would dare joust with Paladin? Methinks Paladin is a big softy with a big soft head full of big soft mush. Now, that’s what methinks and methinks you may think so as well.
By blog jog .
August 23, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
Anders We will trade you BravesDave for the Drooler and No Chop Zone. We will send the two of them to the M. Vick School for Snarling Curs. We don’t give a sh!t what you do with him.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this
.500 ball. Not surprising. Lost of crap on the pitching staff. Still though, it’s an improvement over last season. It’s impossible to win when the pitchers see a lead and think they can relax and coast. Those days are done. I’m not sure those days ever got started, but they certainly aren’t here now.
No more easy series. So take this win today Braves to save some sort of face. Then head into Saint Louis and try to do something. I’d say win, but it doesn’t seem to be on the pitchers mind.
GO BRAVES?
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this
Anders we all got your point, i guess the braves have already switched to wildcard mode, if on the road to that they find the mets, cool, but i dont think they are thinking division anymore.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
Robert, Robert, Robert, All the sarcasm and your feeble attempts at insulting me will not change the truth. Check the standings, but before you do that brace yourself. You may be to too emotionally fragile to handle what you’ll find. Now I’ve got to get back and get the hush puppies ready for the dinner rush.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
So, No Chop Zone, since injuries can be used as an excuse, the Braves would have been right there battling for first place this year and if they would have had Hampton all year along with Chipper early on the Braves would be in first place right now?
By Lew
August 23, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this
Injuries? Hampton for the season. Gonzalez for the season. Paronto. Wickman. Chuck James. Smoltz. Dotel. Lerew. Edgar Renteria. Aybar gone for the season. Chipper down for 20 games. Just a lot of Mets’ fans whining. Again. Whatever. We all have had injuries. Get over it.
By GermanBravesFan
August 23, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
Since “No Chop Zone” brought up the “ifs” … IF Mike Hampton hadn’t been out and IF Mike Gonzalez hadn’t been lost for the season, the Braves would be sitting on top and look at the Mets in the rear view mirrors… Just my humble opinion.
Unfortunately, “If’s” don’t get us anywhere. The Braves are one quality starting pitcher away from the NL East title and that’s the fact. I am not sure if the current pitching staff is even enough to get the Wild Card - we’ll have to wait and see!
By Paladin .
August 23, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Miss Mush Methinks, and I am able to. That, beatch, is the difference.
By BamaBrave
August 23, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Too true Renegator…we never do well against pitchers we’ve never seen before. I don’t care if they have a 7.55 ERA in AA. We’ll make ‘em look like Don Drysdale by the 5th inning. And it’s been that way for some time. Seems like Pendleton would have the guys better prepared…
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Hey, No Chop Zone aka Fry Guy, the Braves are without Gonzales. Imagine how much better the bullpen would have been with him in it and how many fewer loses this team would have right now. Give me a break with the loses. I didn’t see anybody crying about all the injuries the Braves had last year, so I won’t be crying for anybody else.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
Phillies took an L. Nice. Dodgers were the team to beat them so they tied us. But I am still rooting against division rivals. Like I said on the last blog, the Braves should be ashamed of themselves if they finish with a worse record than the Phillies. The Phillies have been the most injury plagued team in the National League. Sceond to the Oakland Athletics.
By steve
August 23, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
Anders….A Few Good Men? Awesome dude…frickin awesome.
By GB
August 23, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
I know its been brought up here before on several occasions, but…since we (and no other team)can trade for a decent starter, isn’t it time for BC to get off his loyalty kick and put Harris in center, Diaz in left and let AJ serve drinks or something in the dugout?? If we can’t pitch our way through this, this at least gives us a better chance to hit our way. Any thoughts considering we’re getting down to the short strokes here??
By GB
August 23, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
I know its been brought up here before on several occasions, but…since we (and no other team)can trade for a decent starter, isn’t it time for BC to get off his loyalty kick and put Harris in center, Diaz in left and let AJ serve drinks or something in the dugout?? If we can’t pitch our way through this, this at least gives us a better chance to hit our way. Any thoughts considering we’re getting down to the short strokes here??
By John B.
August 23, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
Oh, I forgot to mention that we also had Smoltz out for an extended period of time, and he is still hurting somewhat. Your biggest loss this season is probably Beltran, and even he wasn’t gone that long.
By ncscoots
August 23, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this
I guess it was bound to happen, in an unfulfilled (so far) season. The blog, formerly a merry place with good conversation on much, and many fine baseball posts marred only by a scattering of cluelessness, has overbalanced the teeter-totter. The pendulum has swung.
Now, the forum is seems overweighted by Baseball 101 analysis (FIRST semester), given by posters who appeared to have learned the game at a Russian spy school. When (too) many posters begin to make Coach look smart, well, it’s a sad day by my reckoning.
The good news for those folks, of course, is that they weren’t born Spartans and discarded at birth. Tough luck for the rest of us, though.
By BamaBrave
August 23, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
I’m still laughing at Young’s 3:48 post…
“…but how can a baby run when the baby does not know know to walk. The Braves need to learn this logic. Braves will never ever make to playoffs again. The last fourteen which they won will account for championships for the next 1,000,000 years so buy loto or use your mouth to suck all the salt water out of pacific ocean, you will have a better chance that way.”
This, my friends, is why I keep showing up.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
No Chop Zone, you didn’t like my humor? I’m sorry. I shouldn’t make fun. Being the coleslaw and fry guy at Long John’s is a respectable job.
Now, I did look at the standings and your Mets are in first place. Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t realize the end of the season was today.
By GB
August 23, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
I know its been brought up here before. We’re down to the short strokes, folks. Time for BC to get off his loyalty arse and put Harris in center, Diaz in left. We can’t pitch our way out of the back end of the rotation…maybe we can hit our way. Ya think???
By Anders
August 23, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
Overlord Now you’re talking, but I need to hear it from Lew and Paladin - The two last hold outs .
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
A couple of thoughts:
sportsmandh Read Lew’s post from 3:51pm. Nobody seems to want to listen to logic. Guys like Ron and Coach both think that just because the Braves need a starter, poof, a starter will be traded for. As we all know, at an exorbinant price, is it worth it? But then again, for guys like Coach and Ron, logic doesn’t matter, when they are so right……
Lew and JJS You know, a canned ham would be “real nice”!
Anders Good points on the WC logic, but to be honest, it doesn’t matter WHO we pull for, cause our pulling for the Mets over the Padres will have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the outcome. So, I try to keep it simple. Just pull for my Braves to win (although, my pulling for them so far this year has not created a long winning streak!). So, we can just hope our team wins many games, and let the chips fall where they may.
I still find it difficult to “pull” for the Mets though!
Ron and Coach What part of Lew’s 3:51 post did you guys not understand? Is it that difficult to understand that JS is smarter than us, and if there would have been a deal to be had, we WOULD have another good starter right now.
Late August available starters
Wells does NOT intrigue me. Traschel does not enthuse me, but I like him better than Wells. But, what the hay, let’s bring them BOTH on! I think Towers would have been a good addition, but why do you think that having cleared waivers a long time ago, he has not been dealt yet, as SOOOO many teams need starting pitching????? Maybe his price tag is a bit prohibitive? Nah, it’s probably just that JS is such and lousy GM that he doesn’t even know that Towers is available and cheap!!
Does that make you feel better?
By Chop Chop
August 23, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
The Mets, Phils and Braves have all had plenty of injuries to deal with. Blah, blah, blah. Who cares? You dance with the one what brung ya, no matter if her leg’s fallin’ off or she’s missin’ more than a few teeth.
Let’s face facts. The Braves likely just aren’t good enough this season, so what’s the point of all the hand-wringing? We had it good for a long time. I can handle the mediocrity. If the 65-win seasons return, I’ll get mad.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
Lew dont forget mccan and AJ, whom are starters and have been plagued.
By Paladin .
August 23, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this
ncscoots Re: your 4:28. Now, that’s funny! And true. :-)
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
Robert and Lew, Lets not let the standing (Mets 6 games ahead of the braves) come between friends. I love you guys.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
JohnB I agree with you. That was my point to Carroll. All teams have injuries throughout the year. That’s why I rarely get into discussing them. If you lose a key guy down the stretch or in the playoffs then I think it’s fair to bring it up. But not before Sept.
By ChampDawg
August 23, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
Carroll— Let’s just ditch these kinds of articles, ok. The Braves season is clearly over as far as winning the division. It’s just not going to happen, so let’s move on. After 127 games and particularly since the all-star break, the Braves have proven themselves collectively as a team to be a .500 ballclub. Playing .500 ball is not even going to win the wildcard, so can we please just move on. Injuries, a sorry-@$$ 3-4-5 in the rotation, and Andruw’s struggles have doomed this team. Pass the jelly, there’s toast and they know it.
By TN Jeff
August 23, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
* Bob, Journalist *
Not that elaborate with my record keeping & memory doesn’t serve me well.
Here’s what I did learn -
Won on 4/4 by 3-2 vs Philly McBride Won on 4/8 by 3-2 vs Mets Soriano Won on 5/2 by 4-3 vs Philly Paronto Won on 5/4 by 4-0 vs Dodgers Smoltz Won on 5/8 by 3-2 vs Padres Gonzalez Won on 5/9 by 3-2 vs Padres Smoltz Won on 5/11by 4-1 vs Pirates Davies Won on 5/24by 2-1 vs Mets Smoltz Won on 5/28by 2-1 vs Brewers James Won on 6/25by 4-1 vs Nats Hudson Won on 7/23by 4-2 vs San Fran Smoltz
Very front heavy on pitching - what’s the philosophy by McDowell. Saving Hudson & Smoltz arms so we have no complete games. YET, I can’t think of 4-5 games lost when Smoltz left with a lead and at least once when Hudson left with a lead. Then we pitch our most consistent relief pitchers (Moylan & Mayhay) in a game we’re leading by 10 runs. Only to run those 2 out again the next night to blow a winnable game?
* When was the last time the Braves made a late inning comeback? We’ve blown a lot of games & leads late but NEVER come back late anymore *
By Arkansas Braves fan
August 23, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this
The Braves picture is real simple. They need to focus on the closest thing in front of them,which is the wildcard. If they gain the wildcard lead, then set their sights on the muts. The Padres and Phillies will play each other over the weekend, so we have a chance to gain some ground over the weekend. Let the mut fans have their fun while winning the division. Two in a row is not exactly 14 in a row.Mut fans have been telling Brave fans the last 15 years or so that division Champs don’t mean anything, just World Champs.
As bad as the Braves have played of late, they still have as good a chance as anybody to make the playoffs. If the Braves win the division or win the wildcard, it won’t matter to the rest of the baseball world if they don’t win the World Series.The Braves have enough Division crowns to last untill the end of time.The Marlins have never one a division crown. Hopefully the Braves will just concentrate on getting in the playoffs and not the disappointment of not winning the division. The Braves finished 10 games ahead of the Marlins in eithier 97 or 2003 or both. Do you think the Marlins give a rats behind?
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this
Lew , your wrong , as usual. Kason Gabbard has went 5-1 with a 3.56 ERA since the Red Sox traded him for Eric Gagne. The Red Sox traded LHP Kason Gabbard , OF David Murphy and OF Engle Beltre for Gagne. The Braves could have easily traded Wickman straight up for Gabbard and turned the closer job over to Soriano. Instead , Schuerholz was busy trying to trade Wickman for Kyle Farnsworth while trying to get the Yankee’s to eat the majority of Farnsworth’s contract. The Yankee’s would have none of that trade and I don’t blame them. Lew , if you try to tell me that the Rangers could get Gabbard and the Brave couldn’t , your just asinine. We got an All-start caliber 1st Baseman in Teixeira but you want to believe we couldn’t get a young pitcher like Gabbard. Right , I believe that ignorance.
By Paladin .
August 23, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
Anders Does “Not ‘til hell freezes over” mean anything to you? And, “You can’t handle the truth!” Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men.
By ChampDawg
August 23, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
Let me start something else… is it me or has anyone else noticed McCann this year— it’s not been a stellar year defensively for him. I’m beginning to wonder if he’s really all that good. He’s made a lot of miscues back there this year with missed blocks and passed balls and the arm hasn’t impressed me either.
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Wayne , you and Lew need to get a room. Listen to yourself talking ignorance. THE FREAKING RANGERS COULD GET GABBARD BUT YOU INSIST THAT THE BRAVES COULDN’T , FOR STUPID.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Now that the season has a little more than a month left the injury excuses begin. The fact is that most teams deal with injuries. You all sound so pathetic. I guess that’s easier to throw out there than acknowledging the accomplishmet of your rival. The Mets are the better team and less than a month from now it will be official when they are crowned division champs.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Player News (CBS) RHP Octavio Dotel tossed Tuesday and Wednesday, but he won’t be ready to be activated when he’s eligible on Thursday. Dotel has been on the disabled list since Aug. 8 with a right shoulder strain. (Updated 08/23/2007).
By Ron
August 23, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Lew What the Hell are you talking about? I said Silva!!! He is descent a #4 Starter and perfect for this team!!! I said the MOST that we would have to give up for him IS Thorman, and Probably a descent minor leaguer or two!!! Dude the Twins got Next to NOTHING for Castillo!!! There GM is not stupid like Bowden and the D-Rays GM!!! And plus Silva IS a Free Agent at the End of the season!!! How much you think we would have given up for him? Not THAT much!!! And Weaver was AWFUL last year BEFORE he got to the Cardinals, and Silva is Solid now, he would have done wonders for this team!!! Like I said earlier IF we win the World Series this year OR next year OR can Resign Tex then that is a GREAT trade for us!!! Never said Tex has been bad for us!!! But for YOU not realizing that we could get a guy like Silva for NEXT to nothing is crazy!!! I dont Care what DOB says or anybody, we could have gotten a guy like Silva for next to nothing!!! JS was NOT trying to get a guy like Silva, he was trying to get a Big name!!! NOW he might be trying to get a name like Silva!!! You my friend do not know how baseball works IF you think we would have had to give up a Brandon Jones OR Salty or somebody like that for Silva!!! IF it was the D-Rays GM, OR Bowden or some idiot like that then yes, you would be right, but the Twins GM, Terry Ryan IS ONE of the Best GM’s in ALL of baseball!!! He KNOWS what he is doing!!! He would NOT have demanded that, he would have settled for Thorman or descent Minor leaguers!!! Hell Kyle Lohse would have been better than NOTHING!!!
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I bet No Chop Zone. You love us like a fat kid loves cake, right?
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this
monty If you look at what AJ has done this year, versus the past couple of years, at this point in the season, he should have 36 HR’s and 100 RBI’s. So, to say he ranks up there with other players, is not relavant.
Actually, with the hitters on base ahead of him for most of the year, AJ should be sitting on OVER 100 RBI’s at this point in the season. The table has been well set.
A couple of thoughts that keep coming back to me are: 1) ‘Rhoids??? could AJ be coming down off the juice? 2) Is there a problem with his eyesight??? 3) Is the elbow worse than thought???
If none of the above are true, then it is truly just a stubborn man who succumbed to the pressure of the big contract score. Too danged stubborned to listen to anybody’s help.
Andruw, good luck where ever you are playing next year! Thanks for the memories.
By steve
August 23, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
Question to legitimate Braves fans out there….since when would anyone ever need to count on Mike Hampton? Or even Dotel for that matter who has been awful for your team. Mike Gonzalez is by far the biggest loss for your team, plus the way Soriano has been pitching must be a disappointment.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop sure you can handle mediocrity, you are a Muts fan, what else could you hope for?
By Lew
August 23, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
GB-On the Andruw/Harris switch. Dude. Harris is hitting a paltry .270 in August. He has only nine AB’s less than Abdruw. No HR. 5-2B and 4-3B 6RBI and 10 runs. Andruw, though not doing anything close to his capabilities, is still hitting .210 (not great, but not that much less than Willie). He has 3 HR, 2-2B, 1-3B and 3HR and twice as many RBI (12) as Willie. Now no one will try to hand you any line about how great Andruw is, but Willie has cooled off considerably while Andruw is, at the very least, producing more runs and RBI. It’s time to face facts. There’s just no way Harris is an acceptable replacement for Andruw. His production has dropped off, he has zero power and is not the defensive force that Andruw is. Sorry, Dude, Andruw’s season sucks, but that’s reality.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
sorry about that one chop chop i got confused, it might be this pennant race, hahaha.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
Wayne Alright dude KEEP being a smartass!!! Yeah JS is Smarter in Baseball wise than all of us here!!! Well IF we could NOT get ANY damn pitcher AT all then why make ANY trades then? This team need ANOTHER starter in July, AND guess what? They need one NOW at the End of August!!! What you actually think a Smart GM like Terry Ryan would have asked for the MOON for Silva? He did not even get anything in the deal for Castillo!!! And Silva IS a free agent at the end of the year!!! They have good starters in their minors, and IF they decide to trade Santana sometime in the Offseason or next July, they can get Pretty much what ever they want!!! They could not get alot for Silva!!! Bottom line!!! Laugh at me ALL you want!!! That goes for Everyone ON THIS DAMN BLOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Paladin .
August 23, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
That reads, to me, like “your and idiot”. But, what do I know?
By tim
August 23, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
The season is far from over. We will need to go at least 5-1 vs the mets to get the division but the wildcard is definitely in reach. We just need to put it together for 1/4 of the season. It seems that location is killing the back end of the rotation
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
The Braves could have easily traded Wickman straight up for Gabbard and turned the closer job over to Soriano. Instead , Schuerholz was busy trying to trade Wickman for Kyle Farnsworth while trying to get the Yankee’s to eat the majority of Farnsworth’s contract
I’d like to see some documenation on both those points Coach. First I’d like to see the documentation on the Wickman for Gange trade. Secondly, I’d like to see documentation on the Fransworth/Wickman trade.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
Coach Did you ever think that Boston might NOT have wanted Wickman? And I think you are so ignorant to think that with all the talk about pitching from JS, that he didn’t try for a pitcher like Gabbard. NO WAY does Boston trade Gabbard for Wickman. NO WAY! They wanted Gagne. Wake up and smell the coffee.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Scoots, the Spartans were not unique it that regard but I do agree with the toughness of our luck.
Salty, an astute observation, mon ami … your 1:19 … but why am I not surprised? Did you notice how the Master of Third Person Prose failed to recognize **David O’B’s use of the “Royal We”? Nose to the ground, always looking for a scoop, methinks he thought it was an unintentional, revealing slip.
Looks like Ron, Journalist would make a good GM … at least methinks he so thinks!
Ron, I’m just having you on … ‘twas Monte who dubbed you Journalist, nicht ich … but ‘tis a fine journalist you be!
By AJC Accounts Receivable.
August 23, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
Mr. RON!!!!!! Amount due $78.20. Please remit upon receipt. (We have given you a discount on stupidity charges because you are retarded.)
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this
Ron , give it up man. These KNUCKLE DRAGGERS will defend Schuerholz no matter how many mistakes he makes. When Schuerholz or Cox screw up , smart bloggers will bust their chops. The Kool-Aid drinkers will get get in line and defend them no matter what they do.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
We need a 6-4 road trip…plain and simple…we have to start playing with urgency and determination which does not seem to happen when we play the Redlegs…seems like we play down to bad teams and up to good teams…Reds and Muts good example…We have the match ups against the Redbirds so 2/3 is not unimaginable with Jo-Jo pitching Sunday a sweep is not out of the question but may be harder..But it all starts tonight with Carlyle keeping the ball in the yard.
By tim
August 23, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
If you listed to what Schuerholz has been saying is that he tried to get a starting pitcher. When NOBODY was dealing good starting pitching then he went after the best hitter he could get. Boston would not have traded for Wickman. They wanted Gagne to stop the Yankees from getting him. Show me anywhere that they would have traded gabbard for wickman. NO evidence. Sounds like you are talking out of your a*
By David-ATL14
August 23, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
I suspect JS may be close to acquiring a starter along the lines of Carlos Silva from the Twins.
Just a guess.
By Lew
August 23, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this
Ron-You think all you would have to give up is Thorman ( a player having a pitiful season)? Excuse me if I point out to you that you have no flippin idea what Silva would cost the Braves. Do you, perhaps have some inside information that no one else that blogs here has? Didn’t think so. Pitching is THE prime commodity in baseball today. There is a premium price being asked and paid for pitching. Number four, my behind. It doesn’t matter. The asking price would have been exhorbitant. Also, you have noticed that The Dodgers, The Phillies, The Yankees, The Mets and The Cardinals are dying for pitching as well. Did THEY pick up Silva, or anyone else? JS did what he felt comfortable paying for. That’s it and you have no evidence to the contrary. Didn’t you see what the White Sox were asking for their pitchers? I would have really liked to pick up Vasquez with his several years under contract and his track record-not only for this year, but for several to come. But at what price? I guarantee you that if JS paid what was asked, you and a dozxen others would have come on b!tching, p!$$!ng and moaning about how Schuerhoz gave up way too much for a rental player that probably wouldn’t have had a whole lot of effect, anyway. Do you seriously believe he didn’t even try to find pitching, when what he repeatedly stated was that was his main concern? Whatever. You’re being total unreasonable in your expectations.
By Paladin.
August 23, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Lew Draw Coach a picture.
By Goat Horns
August 23, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this
The thing the Mets fans are hiding is the fact that while they may indeed win the NL east; they are scared sh**less that the Braves will come to life and capture the wild card.
They know they cannot beat the Braves in a head to head playoff series.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
blog jog, that would be a good trade for the Braves. They would probably start winning as soon as my negativity left the blog, plus NCZ and Mets Tool would fit right in with Braves players like Chuck James, who have the brains to jump off of a roof the day before the MLB draft.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this
“From 1998-2006 the Braves won 859 games. Diamond Mind projected them to win 829. If Diamond Mind did build in a Bobby Cox factor into their projections, that still doesn’t address if Cox is so bad why did the Braves over-perform those projections? “
Shaun, you boggle the mind. How can ANYONE be able to cite so many statistics and yet understand nothing about statistics, or how models work and so on
If the model didnt predict correctly, then it wasnt such a good model - but we cant tell up front where the model broke down
The point remains - gimme any team and any model - Any model that is even on the right TRACK as far as being accuarte, will have that team win fewer games with Cox managing than it would predict with another manager
Now - YOUR model would say that Cox would add wins. But YOUR model would be flawed
Son, you actually try hard. And I commend that. You are trying to use numbers, and I can only imagine what tricks you have to use if you have to count above 21, but step back a minute and try to understand before you spout any more numbers
I have given you PROOF over and over - The fact that you fail to grasp that it is proof does NOT invalidate it as proof
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
Ron Hey, let’s not get into a big argument. We have had good discussions in the past.
A few points: JS has been talking up pitching (and starting pitching) all year and last winter. The man is astute at what he has done as a GM.
Castillo is a lot like Giles was last year, a cold commodity. That is why he didn’t bring much. FA next year, and having injury and hitting problems. No real value there.
And your last point is so telling: Silva is a FA and yet, Ryan did NOT deal him. CERTAINLY it is not because other teams don’t need starters. I can name you 10 clubs at the end of July who needed starters. Think about that for a minute. With that, why didn’t we get Silva? Either he was priced out of his value range, OR Ryan didn’t want to deal him. Maybe they are going to try to sign him, and didn’t want him thinking he wasn’t loved (the AJ syndrome).
Would we overpay for Silva is he had cleared waivers now, maybe….. he hasn’t cleared waivers though, as best as I can determine.
The pitchers who HAVE cleared waivers are not real inviting: Contreras, Odalis Perez, Towers, Trachsel and Wells. I am not sure what kind of help those guys might be to us.
One more point you make about “why make any trades then?” Well, it was obvious that Salty was not in our long range plans. Wasn’t going to supplant Baby Huey and it was clear they weren’t counting on him as a first baseman, or else he would have gotten almost all the playing time.
We badly needed a cleanup hitter. Granted, you are right, we NEED another starter. At what price though???? I think your Silva argument has too many holes in it, as explained above.
While JS is smart enough to know that “slugging it out” is not the ideal way to win, maybe he had no real choice??? With AJ probably gone next year, Tex is a good choice to solidify our lineup.
If anyone argues that Tex hasn’t helped or hasn’t turned things around, then imagine where we would be with Salty instead of Tex for the past 3 weeks.
Can we call a truce??? (sorry if I have been a smartass. I am told that I tend to do that sometimes….)
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
Wayne , the Red Sox gave up three players for Gagne , the Braves could have given up one (Wickman). Boston wanted a reliable set up guy , not a closer you dope. Papelbon is the Red Sox closer. You keep defending the mistakes and smoking the crack.
By Jeff R
August 23, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
Texeria was suppose to be the silver bullet - you know, drive the Braves offense so that it scored a lot of runs per game, in fact, so many that the pitching didn’t really matter as much.
Well, reality bites hard. Pitching does matter - lots. And the Braves’ pitching staff really hasn’t found a groove (with a few exceptions, of course). Inconsistencies and plain marginal performances by marginal pitchers may well cost the Braves a post season berth.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this
Getting Carlos Silva would be nice, but I don’t really see it happening without the Braves giving up something significant. I could see the Twins asking for B. Jones or Lillibridge or somebody like Boyer. No way are they worth Silva.
By Lew
August 23, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this
Paladin-Why in the World would I want to draw Coach a picture? He would have to post something that actually made sense and showed creativity, which is totally beyond his capabilities. Aren’t you aware that he was hit in the head with a wrecking ball?
By Ron
August 23, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
AJC Accounts Receivable Shut the Hell up!!! You too damn scared to say anything to me in your real name moniker, so you hide behind this stupid moniker!!!
Coach Dude they just need to see how baseball works!!! They do not understand I guess!!!
Lew Has it ever occured to you that the Yankees, The Dodgers, The Phillies might not have wanted Silva? The Phillies got a Starter!!! For one thing yes it would have cost us MORE to get Vasques or Garland mainly because they are locked up in a contract AND they are BETTER than Silva!!! Has that EVER occured to you? Apparently not!!! Dude IF you dont think that Thorman has a little bit of talent you are crazy!!! They need a DH, Thorman fits that as perfect as anybody!!! Thorman playing in that Small park and getting to play EVERY DAY, WITH ZERO PRESSURE on him because they are NOT a good team!!! Damn he could put up a .250 average, 25-30 homers and 50-75 RBI’s!!! The dude could produce for that team and will only get better!!! If you remember LaRoche Stunk his first two years here also!!! And LaRoche was Highly regarded Around the league!!! Thorman would fit PERFECT for their DH spot!!! He is Young, Affortable, and has talent!!! That is EXACTLY what the Twins want!!!
By Anders
August 23, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
Paladin “You want the truth! People like you and Lew sicken me Deep down in places you don’t talk about in parties you need me talking about the WC for the Braves - you want me talking about the WC for the Braves Who else is gonna do it? You DOB? You Carroll? You sleep in the comfort that the I’ve provided explaining the WC to you but then complain about the method in which I provide it. Now I suggest you either start to blog about the Braves winning the WC or just stop bloggin all together, because either way I don’t give a D…. what you think the Braves deserve.”
Jack Nicholson -A Few Good Men
By Colin
August 23, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
Silva huh…..Wow we are getting desperate…Why not try to get Redman back….REC 10-12 | ERA 4.10 | WHIP 1.28
By Lew
August 23, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
Knuckle Draggers?-I guess Coach would know, given his Neanderthal-like intellect and perception. It isn’t a matter of defending JS, you complete fool (yes, Bob, he has passed the fool’s exam and is now completely there). It has to do with the lack of available pitching and the exhorbitant price tag attached, thereto. I didn’t see any of the contenders go out and get much in the way of starters. The Phillies picked up Lohse and the Royals got Davies. Wow. I’m stunned at the deft moves maneuvered by the various GM’s. Really, truly I am.
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
Lew can’t make an intelligent baseball argument for his stupidity so he attacks me on a personal level. Like I said before , KNUCKLE DRAGGER all the way.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this
BTW Braves fans - word up here in NY is that Wells is about to sign with the Dodgers. Good news for you is that he’d pitch against the Mets this Sunday. Unless of course your worried about the Dodgers getting back in the WC race.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
Coach, Wayne is right. The Red Sox acquisition of Gagne had as much to do with blocking the Yankees as it did with them actually wanting him. I am willing to bet that if the Yanks hadn’t shown interest in Gagne the Red Sox would have never made a play. You didn’t find it interesting that the Red Sox didn’t even surface as suitors until a day before the deadline?
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
I’ve heard the term from back in the day, but what pray tell is a KNUCKLE DRAGGER?
By Rev. Zoldars
August 23, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Some of you guys are…losing it. completely. As I have heard previously, such delightfully hackneyed phrases as “quite drinkin the kool-aid” and “what are you smokin?”, … for some of you, it’s time to put that to use…As Nelson Mandela once said “Cheeel out!”
And, for gods sakes..some of you should really go back to work. I bet this blog costs companies hundreds of thousands - if not millions a year do to non-productive workers.
Just an observation…. drink the kool aid
from the reverend
By Chop Chop
August 23, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this
Lew, draw a picture of you beating Coach with a Wurlitzer and mail it to Paladin.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this
Wayne It cool man!!! We are cool, we have had some real good discussions!!! Truce!!! You make good points, and really dont want to argue too much with you, because you are a cool dude!!! I still stick to my thoughts about Silva OR at least somebody OTHER than Contreras OR Morris!!! Those two guys no way do I want them AND there Bloated contracts!!! Dude your not as big of a smartass as some on this blog, so it is ALL GOOD DUDE!!! :) We all have a little bit of smartass in us!!! I can be as big of a smartass as anyone on here, sometimes!!! :)
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
All I’m seeking here is some sort of report or interview saying the Braves were approached by the BoSox with a Wickman/Gobbard deal.
Coach Do you have that sort of report anywhere or are you just pulling it out of your —Hey Hey Kids!
Seriously. I keep reading all these posts saying JS could have done this or that but was attempting this or that and I see no reports or sitation…
By David-ATL14
August 23, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
Coach you’re about as credible on this as you were on the Thorman options fiasco.
DOB will return shortly to hand out the necessary “stinging rebukes” to the usual “assclowns” of the ‘flat earth society.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this
Wayne I think I saw where Odalis Perez was just put on the DL, too, so he’s even less of an option than he was before…
I think Schuerholz, like the rest of us, believed adding Teixeira (and upgrading our offense by doing so) would be enough to overcome our pitching woes. We’re 10-10 with that addition (and I shudder to think where we’d be without Teixeira this month). So that obviously hasn’t worked - yet.
So hearing (via DO’B, anyhow) that the feeling is JS will go get a pitcher through the waiver wire is either encouraging or exasperating. What more of our future will we have to give up to try and make this current team put together a strong string of games?
I’m not saying “give up;” but I think I am of the opinion that, if we can’t do it with what we have, then just stand pat and reload for next year, keeping your prospects and young stars in-place. We’re gonna have Mike Hampton (we presume) returning from yet another long injury stint, plus be free of Andruw’s multi-million dollar salary. That should enable us to bring in one, maybe even two serviceable starters.
And keep in mind, we just need decent starters to fill out our rotation. We don’t need Cy Young-caliber guys; just .500 record pitchers for the back half of the rotation.
Carlyle’s been a godsend and a nice story, in general, but how long is he gonna be effective? Lance Cormier’s had his shots, and it’s tough that he’s had to overcome health issues, but barring an opportunity to play it out and look sharp the rest of this season, what reason do we have to believe that he’ll be a viable option in 2008 as a starter? Chuck James needs to work on adding a pitch to his repertoire in the off-season and he’ll make for a fine 3rd or 4th starter.
But I’m of the opinion that if the current squad can’t do it, then let ‘em ride it out trying and save what ya got for next season, when the lineup should be about as potent as it already is now, minus Andruw (which isn’t losing much, anymore) and your bullpen arms come back from injuries/surgeries ready to go at it full-tilt and you have starting pitching options that aren’t scary.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this
I am guessing that someone has stolen Ron’s moniker today. Whoever that is that kidnapped Ron’s screen name, please give it back.
Coach: for you, there is no excuse. Occasionally you will say something that makes some sense, but those occurances are rare.
Ron Nobody is disputing that Thorman has value. You must be drinking or on some drugs if you think that somebody wouldn’t have jumped at Silva if he was truly available, and if the price tag was fair.
Which starters got traded? Morris (heavy contract, and the Pirates gave up a top flight OF prospect) and Lohse (no better than our options). If there were others, I can’t remember.
Coach One last thing, NO WAY IN HE!! did Boston want Wickman. They got their man. Would you trade Gabbard for Wickman? JEEZ. No way!
By Colin
August 23, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
What is a Wurlitzer?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
David, harsh; funny; and true.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
Tenessee Paul Here in NY the Ynakees reported that the Braves offered Wickman for Farnsworth and the Yankees said no. That did come off the al Yankeezeera network so you have to take it with a grain of salt.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
Rev. Zoldars, I imagine that in many cases, such non-productivity would be considered cost effective … some employers might even be thankful, and besides, some of the exchanges are most enlightening.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
Anders 5:24pm post. GREAT POST!!
David-ATL14 Hopefully I can avoid the “whuppin!”
Lew It’s a brick wall with some….
By DonCoburleone
August 23, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
How about this for another .500 stat: Since the start of the 2006 season the Braves are 145-144… So in other words, if we lose tonight, the Braves as an organization will be .500 over their last 290 games!!! Now that my friends, is the definition of mediocrity…
By Carroll Rogers
August 23, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
renteria to the DL. think they posted it long ago, just had to wait for quite a while for him to come out of the training room. doesn’t feel any worse tho. so he’ll do a week of nothing and see if it doesn’t heal up better.
yours truly, master of the obvious
By Ron
August 23, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this
Colin Dude 4.10 ERA is NOT that bad especially for the AL!!! Oh yeah I guess YOU have not seen the Record of OUR #5 starter!!! Come back when you have a GOOD argument!!! Leave this to the BIG boys!!! OK!!!
By DonCoburleone
August 23, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this
Next year is the year though - Mr. Automatic out (AJ) will be gone and hopefully we make a trade for a decent starter and hopefully Hampton can come back and be serviceable. Remember how we won 14 straight division titles? STARTING PITCHING STARTING PITCHING STARTING PITCHING!!!
By Mo in the boonies
August 23, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
I haven’t been able to see the last four games….:*) But each night I switch to ESPN to see what the scores are. Last night, when I saw that the Rangers had beaten the Orioles, 30-3 in the first game of a double-header, (btw, they also won the second game) I had to sit through a mess of crap on the channel, before they finally got back to the baseball scores, but I had to see if I had seen the right score on the Ranger and Oriole game. How could it be… I thought….do not the Orioles have Leo, the miracle man, for their pitching coach? The same Leo who gets credited for the Braves great pitching staffs in the past?? And the same Leo, who so many on this blog long to have return to the Braves?? Hmmmm
Robert Your post on the other blog at 4:15 AM was right on the mark. But no matter how right you are, you are never going to change the minds of people on here, who think BC is God’s gift to managing. And Since BC hired himself to the job, I figure he must have put an iron-clad clause in his contract that he couldn’t be fired, until he chooses to leave. Otherwise any other team would have fired him long ago.
There is nothing wrong with this team that a new manager with a different slant on managing, couldn’t fix, even at this late date…but we all know that isn’t going to happen. Sure the team needs a fire lit under them, but BC isn’t the guy to do it. First place he just doesn’t have the get-up and go to do it, his has already got up and went. And second, he doesn’t have the desire to do it. He is happy with the same old, same old, regardless of if they win or lose.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Colin Young man, “The Wurlitzer” is something only the wise, astute, or extremely talented receive!
(sorry old timers, couldn’t resist!)
:-)
(in reality, extremly humble and thankful for my DM!)
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
Lew and Wayne are right. You know JS had to be looking for a starter at the trade deadline and I still believe he is trying to find someone given how close we still are to the Wild Card. But in JS defense there is a price that is too high just to win this year and not be able to successfully compete down the road. So what did JS do? He went out and got a hitter in the hopes that with the increased run support that we would win a few more of the games we would normally lose with the starters we have. Unfortunately, the pitching (save Smoltz and Hudson) has gotten worse needing more run support than they did before.
So unless JS pulls off a miracle, we can’t expect any help and will have to make it with what we have. I still think we have what it takes to get into the playoffs. All it is going to take is for one of the other 3 starters to get going good. Lets hope it starts tonight with Buddy.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
Tennesee Paul
Wickman for Farnsworth was talked about. MLBTraderumors.com.
They have documentation for you.
By Jeremy
August 23, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
If the Braves can’t win 3 out of 5 games against non-playoff teams now, what makes us fans believe they could win a 5 game series in the playoffs? We’re pretty good w/ Smoltz and Hudson, but after that its scary. Let’s face it Braves fans - Our club doesn’t have enough starting pitching to reel off a 5-6 game win streak, which is exactly what we need right now. Even if the Braves manage to get in the playoffs, our 3-5 starters would get us killed. Or worse, Bobby Cox ignores the history of starters pitching on 3-days rest, and goes to a 3-man rotation in the 1st round of the playoffs. It never works.
I hate to say this, but the Braves will be watching the 2007 playoffs.
By Fred from CT
August 23, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this
any word on who got called up
By Ron
August 23, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this
Wayne Dude why do you think this is NOT me? Anyway Dude I am NOT on any drugs TODAY!!! Maybe during the past week, maybe, but NOT today!!! Aint been smoking NOTHING yet!!!
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
Anders & 10Paul
Word was that the Braves wanted the Yankees to eat much of Farnsworth’s 5 million salary for the duration.
If we were able to get him for a discounted salary, I think Farnsworth would have been a good deal, as he did a very good job here, until the pressure was applied.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
Lew, I can see where you might think the Coach complete … he may be close, but methinks he’s still approaching perfection!
By Yars
August 23, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this
Dodgers beat the Phillies, & if the Mets beat the Padres tonight, (Glavine pitching) the Braves will go back to only being 1 game behind in the NL Wildcard. Tonight is a must win. Losing 3 out of 4 against the freaking Reds would be too much. I think we still have a decent chance at winning the NL Wildcard, but losing against teams we should be sweeping I hope doesn’t come back to haunt this Atlanta team. I can’t see the Cardinals being a big problem. Winning 2 out of 3 is possible. The Marlins are playing really bad, so we have to leave Miami either sweeping the Fish, or winning 2 out of 3. Boy did the last 2 losses hurt. Ouch! Now Playing: All These Things That I’ve Done by the Killers.
By Coach (Credibility ? Read it and weep , david atl-14)
August 23, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this
By Coach
April 23, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this
Spike , the Braves have beaten the Mets head to head 4-2 and we are just half a game up on them. However , The Mets have outscored , outhit and out pitched everybody in the N.L. , then when you consider the fact that the Mets have played one game less than the Braves you can begin to understand why I think they could be the team that we will be chasing all season.
By Paladin.
August 23, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this
Lew We “sicken” Anders. Let’s keep up the good work, shall we? And a Mut tells the originator and producer of the Wurlitzer to stop posting?! And Wayne tells him it is a “great” post? What is this world coming to?
I know it was a J. Nickolson parody, but over-the-line, never the less.
By iwalterp
August 23, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this
The Braves need another starter who can give them 6+ innings a start. The Braves have another 26 yr/old Cuban refugee pitcher at Richmond named Francisley Bueno. Judging the maturity and lack of fear Escobar has shown this year maybe this guy too can pitch in the majors. It has been said more than once that James, Reyes and Davies pitched like they were scared to throw a strike. The Cuban players were playing like pros when they defected. It beats doing nothing at this point.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this
o…Ron
Our 5th…y not 3-5…if it wasent for smoltz and huddy we would be last…Smoltz and Huddy are basically our only hope of making the WC…If they want another bottom of the barrel starter let um get Silva….He is gonna to do what Chuck….Cormier…Redman…Jo-Jo….do when they pitch….LOSE!!!!!!…Maybe if our team would play up to every team and not down to bad teams and up to good teams we might not be only 5 games over .500…Key example…Reds 1-5 mets 8-4….hmmm see a patten…well
By woogidy
August 23, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this
how come journalists get so offended when they are criticized?
By flange1
August 23, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this
Ron,
The Silva idea is a good one. I am sure JS has kicked those tires. If he could have him for Thorman, I sure Silva would be on the Braves roster already.
Coach,
They is no way the Sox would have traded Gabbard for Wickman. NO WAY. We would have had to thow in Escobar or Lillibridge to make that deal happen.
We saw Gabbard when he first came up, he beat the Braves and looked OK but he sure doesn’t look worth Escobar or Lillibridge to me…
Pretty interesting that a Columbus High graduate is calling LEW a Knuckle dragger. Heck, I have never met a Columbus High graduate that could add fractions……
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this
Mo Go back to the boonies, please.
DonC What would you think of these off season acquisitions?
1) Escober and JoJo to SF for Matt Cain (SF needs a lt answer for SS)
2) Edgar, Boyer and Dan Smith to ChiSox for either Garland, Buehrle, or Vasquez
3) Pick up Ryan Church and/or Ryan Freel for CF. Let BJones and Diaz platoon in LF. Give Lillibridge the SS job to lose.
4) As insurance for Lillibridge: Brayan Pena and a reliever to the Cubbies for one of their young SS’s (Theriot or Fontenot). Cub’s are on the fence on Kendall as their catcher.
Just some Braves fans musings. If anybody doesn’t like my ideas, then who cares, since I am not the GM anyway!
:-)
By Google.
August 23, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this
woogidy We want to add your name to our files. Is it a given name? I mean was your mother drunk when she selected it? Or, are you an infant and that is your pet name for your private parts? Please respond, or have a respnsible adult do so for you.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this
Jeremy, methinks you’re confusing “can’t” with “aren’t” … and perhaps “could” with “would” … we have a very talented team … there is no doubt that they “can”, the verb about which there is some question is “will” … we don’t know that answer but we “will”, just wait ans see … which is not such a bad ides … however, there are those of us who still believe that answer to be yes.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this
Colin, Wayne is directionally correct However, we have been known to make exceptions.
By Sergeant Salmonloaf
August 23, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this
This is a message to Ron, (Mr. !!!)…
Ron!!! Calm down. Just take a deeeeeep breath. That’s it. Everything’s going to be jusssst fine.
You said the Braves needed starting pitching, and you were right. Everyone else said Teixeira was the ticket. Everyone else was wrong.
But it’s going to be okay…Another deeeeep breath. That’s it: The Braves will probably win the Wild Card anyway, just as you said. You can stop hitting the exclamation point key three times in place of a period. That’s it…GOOD! You know, a period…that one little dot will suffice. It’s located on the bottom row on your keyboard, second from the right. That’s it.
Everything’s going to be oooookay. One more deeeeep breath. Now, doesn’t that feel better?
By Ron
August 23, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this
o…Colin
We still end up losing some of Smoltz games also especially lately, because of the bullpen!!! Nothing is guraranteed!!! James has pitched pretty descent this year, other than his last 2 starts!!! Even with basically having only 2 pitches BUT he has been descent THIS year!!! Carlyle has been descent for our #4 Starter, But he is more of a #5 starter, and Silva would be a GOOD #4 for us!!! Silva would balance this team!!! But glad you dont think so!!! Oh yeah you were ONE of the LOUDEST ones on this blog that said, get Tex now, then we can order playoff tickets!!! Dont even pretend you dont remember that!!! LOL!!!
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
August 23, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this
See the documentation yet , Paul ? And Gabbard wasn’t the only young pitcher who was available in trade. Zack Greinke was being shopped by the Royals , who by the way , just put him back into their rotation.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this
1) Escober and JoJo to SF for Matt Cain (SF needs a lt answer for SS)
Sabean would never do it. That isn’t enough for Cain.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
Paladin Seriously??? Come on - You know it was meant in good fun. Hope you see it that way.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this
Sergeant Salmonloaf Period, what period, we talkin about a period? Period, We talkin about a period? LOL!!! :) But for real dude, I like my !!! I think they get the point across!!! Do I like to be right about we needing Starters? Hell No!!! I wish I would be eating Crow right now!!! So when I say all of this, I dont mean for it to go the way as saying I am glad to be right, because I wish I was wrong about this!!! But Dude, these !!! are staying!!! But dude just because I type them dont mean Im going crazy, or histerical or anything like that!!! The period kind of gets boring dont you think?
By Colin
August 23, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this
I did say that because u know what it is true…If your one of those who thinks TEX was the worst move we coulda made well im sorry for you.The only thing Silva is no different that any other 3-5 we have had or are still using…When we make the playoffs Smoltz game 1,3 Huddy 2..forgot 3 man rotation jus go them two…thats the only way we will win…
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
Sergeant Can’t figure out if Ron is on drugs, or if he needs MORE!
:-) (maybe he is just listening to the wrong voices in his head!)
iwalterp I too have noticed Bueno. He has either been VERY good, or VERY bad at differing times this year in Richmond. He is older, and supposedly has a major league heater.
Ron R I am in agreement that at some point, you lick your wounds and live to fight another day (or year). Don’t mistake that statement to mean I think we should give up though. I just think there is a limit to what you give up for a fleeting chance. (probably why Silva is not on our roster right now)
An analogy about Silva: My house is not on the market, but it is DEFINITELY for sale. If someone wants to offer me a lot more than it is worth, it is theirs!
By Sergeant Salmonloaf
August 23, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this
Ron!!!
You weren’t listening to me! Please…Take another deeeeeep breath. Exhale slowly. That’s it. Good. Now remember that period key. It makes a little dot. It’s the proper way to end sentences. No need to get all excited. Everything will be jussssst fine.
The Braves game is soon to be on TV. So just take another deeeep breath, grab a beer from the fridge, and relax in your easy chair. That’s it. Kick back and enjoy the game. Everything is going to be ooookay.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this
Wayne Dude the ONLY time I hear the voices in my head is IF I take LSD, OR about 10 pills of Dramine!!! LOL!!! Thats the ONLY time I hear crap in my head!!! But I am not on that TODAY!!! So dont worry this is ALL me today!!! You should REALLY get in a discussion with me when Im on that crap!!! It is a trip just listening to me!!! At least thats what I have heard from others!!! LOL!!! :) Its all good!!!
By Paladin.
August 23, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this
Anders I am fair game, but that kind of “fun” is not poked at Lew, on this blog. I’m surprised that more of the denizens, besides me, haven’t been on your a$$. BTW, did you see the “good” things I said about you, earlier. No harm, no foul between us; but leave Lew out of it.
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
August 23, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
Flange , you are wrong. The Braves could have gotten Kyle Farnsworth straight up for Bob Wickman if they had not asked the Yankee’s to eat 70% percent of Farnsworths contract. That is concrete fact and well documented. But , your gonna try and tell me the Braves could not get Kason Gabbard straight up for Wickman fully knowing the Rangers got three players from the Red Sox for Gagne ? The Red Sox are using Gagne as a set up man and yet you and the rest of the KNUCKLE DRAGGERS insist that Bob Wickman is somehow less valuable and he is the Braves FREAKING CLOSER for God Sake’s. Keep smoking the crack and drinking the kool-aid. By the way , Frank Thomas is also a graduate of my alma mateur.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
Efrim You might be right about the price for Cain. When I am on long drives, my mind searches for possible solutions. Our friend Gil in Mechanicsville says Lillibridge is the real deal. Then I say, throw him into the fire. If we could pick up TWO serviceable starters, and then use James as a #5, with Hampton, Carlyle, Lerew (or whoever is left after some trades).
The Giants might be ready for a youth movement in their positional players. Vizquel is getting old. they already have Zito, Lincecum, Lowry, and Sanchez is an up and comer. They might move Cain if they filled enough holes.
Heck I would even include James for Cain. If they needed more, we could throw in Thorman, Woodward, and Orr!
:-)
If we had 4 class starters, we could live with a SS who was a rookie, and we weren’t sure what we would get out of him with the bat.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
No one is going to make me think Silva will save our season….i jus wont believe now TEX can if he got some help from other McCann and Chipper consistently!!
By Salty
August 23, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
Scoots Typically quality posting, your 4:23!
Bob, J…sentiments appreciated. I like to think I grasp the obvious, when I so recognize it!
Coach Just submit your resume to the Braves and put the rest of us idiots out our misery…please. We’re not worthy of your standards, nor plan to be anytime soon.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this
Sergeant Salmonloaf Dude I dont have any beer in the house!!! Dude I dont have an easy chair!!! All the chairs are in the den, at least all the comfortable chairs, and I dont go in their very much!!! Im sitting on a hard chair now while I am typing in my room!!! Its all good though!!!
By Frank Thomas.
August 23, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this
I emphatically deny ever having known or associated with anyone who calls himself “Coach”. I didn’t know him. He must have been in the special ed class.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
Coach We both want more pitching. We both want the Braves to win.
How can you think that the Red Sox would ever want a 38 year old set up man for a future 3-4 starter, when they could get Eric Gagne for him? That deal was NEVER on the table. If it had been, JS would have pulled that trigger so fast…….
Also, why is it you think that Greinke and Silva are still with their teams, if they really wanted to trade them? (read my house analogy)
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
By JMar
August 23, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this
I thought people might like to see this, from an interview with Texas SS Michael Young on foxsports.com (and something overlooked by the Cox haters):
**Q: Have you spoken with Teixeira?
A: Yes. I’ve talked to him a few times. He can’t say enough great things about Bobby Cox. We played with guys who had played for him — Brian Jordan, Mark DeRosa. They couldn’t say enough great things about Bobby Cox. Tex knew what he was getting into over there.
We both played with Chipper (Jones) in the WBC. We knew what a great player he was then. Tex says it’s great to see it first-hand. They’ve got a lot of good young good players, (John) Smoltz and (Tim) Hudson at the top of the rotation. It’s pretty darned good.**
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
Game time..ready to win…well atleast keep it close
By Ron
August 23, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
Colin Dude I said IF we DONT win the World Series this year OR next year OR if we cant resign Tex long term then it will be a Bad trade!!! But if we can AT least resign Tex it is a good trade!!! Well Not saying Silva WILL save our season, but Weaver sure did save the Cardinals season LAST year!!! And he was gosh awfull with the Angels!!! We cant sit here and say look at the Cardinals and say they won the World Series last year and then dont mention a player that was NOTHING before he got there and he thrived for them!!! Weaver was as BIG a reason for them making the playoffs as anybody on that team!!! He was HUGE for them!!! What you dont think a guy like Silva can be huge for us? If you dont, YOUR not thinking right!!! I never said Silva WOULD be huge for us, but he has a Great chance to be huge for us!!! We are 10-10 WITH Tex!!! We would be better if we would have gotten Silva!!! I cant believe you said Silva would be NO better than our 5th starter!!! You dont know what you are talking about!!!
By Anders
August 23, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this
Paladin You’ve always said good things about me - it’s appreciated . I was poking at Lew in good fun too. Will refrain from doing so. Apparently there is a situation there I am not aware of.
As I head off for a long weekend in the Pocono mountains I’ll leave you with:
“You think you Braves fans scare me with your 14 division titles? I sleep 300 yards from Yankee fans who throw their 26 championship banners at me every day!”
Jack Nicholson - A Few Good Men
Good luck to your Bravos this weekend and I’ll be back next Monday or so.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
You bring up a point I think will be seriously considered this offseason. I think Chuck James may very well be included in a deal for an upgrade at starter. I’m not saying he should be, but if the Giants were to give Matt Cain to us for Yunel Escobar and Chuck James, I would do it in a heartbeat. I think Chuck may very well get traded this offseason. But only for a serious upgrade. Cain is a front of the rotation type starter. He is Smoltz’s replacement. Again, I doubt Cain is ever getting traded. Teams don’t deal young studs like him. We need to develop our own young stud starting pitcher.
By Dick Cheney.
August 23, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this
Of course it hurts, you donkeys, you are being screwed by an elephant.
By Jay
August 23, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this
Braves have 35 games remaining
14 starts for Smoltz and Hudson
21 starts for Reyes,Cormier,and Carlyle. (They are a combined 7-10, and a 23.28 ERA)
Good luck with your playoff push chopnuts
But I hope you make it. Some of you think we’ll meet in a Division series but we won’t. Playoff teams in the same division are not allowed to play each other.
So I want you to make the dance and beat mediocrity back into Arizona and come face us with all your arrogant southern twang.
Beating the Chopheads in the playoffs would cement the Mets as THE team in the National League and would leave the Chopnuts scrambling for plan B.
In a seven game series we’ll get 3 games with any combo of Carlyle, Reyes and Cormier.
WE ARE NOT SCARED!!!
Win your games make the playoffs…
Bring all your talk to the NLCS.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this
Frank Thomas … Fargo High, 1988? … Coach, methinks that’s a different Frank Thomas.
Go Braves!
By flange1
August 23, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
Coach,
Yeah I know that Frank Thomas went to Columbus High, I lived there for 15 years. I doubt he can add fracvtions either.
You have to understand that the Red Sox were lookig for a POWER arm and to block the Yankees from getting Gagne NOT that they were looking for Wickman.
As I’ve told you before, I don’t like Kool aid.
Did you ever hear what the Royals wanted for Greinke?
Would you trade Gabbard for Wickman?
I didn’t think so.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
Whatever your not going to make me believe Silva woulda been our ticket to the playoffs or WS… Imagine if we woulda got him and he pitched no different than Jo-Jo…what would u be saying..o we shouldn’t have traded for him or JS is terrible…sorry if your depending on CARLOS SILVA to be our reliable 3 or 4…
By Chop Chop
August 23, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
JMar,
In all fairness, a s** sammich looks mighty preferable to playing for the Rangers. I’m sure Michael Young would love to be out of that particularly vile circle of Hell.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
Does anybody out there see the logic in what Coach is saying about the Gabbard/Gagne/Wickman thing???
Gagne was WAY more valuable than Wickman. The Sox wanted a set up man, but also DIDN’T want the Yankees to get Gagne. If the Sox wanted Wickman, he could have been had for MUCH less than Gabbard.
Coach, what are you smoking, dude?
(Ron: You need to get a better chair, my friend!)
By Lew
August 23, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
Coach-I attack you personally? Wasn’t it you who said Wayne and I should get a room and then called us knuckle draggers. Listen here you pompous bore- Just be glad I didn’t level your sorry @$$. You are one of the most completely ignorant idiots this blog has ever seen. I swear you’d argue with anyone over anything. You went on for days- DAYS you flippin moron, when you were shown to be completely wrong about Thorman’s options and you steadfastly refused to back down. I swear even a brick wall has more capacity to repair missing and crumbled mortar joints than you do of having a meaningful comment about baseball. I truly pity any of the poor, unfortunate children who had the misfortune to be forced to call YOU Coach. Your own learning leaves much to be desired. Way too much to try to teach anyone about anything. Go home and play with yourself or your wrecking ball. You’re certainly not making friends and influencing anyone here and surely not informing anyone of anything meaningful other than an awareness of your own utter stupidity.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
Over or under 2 innings this lead lasts
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
Who was that talking about small ball last night? Was that BravesDave??? Looks like you got your wish in the first inning.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
Hey bobby has been reading the blog shaun.
He finally used a bunt from other player not been a pitcher
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this
Do we consider this pitcher so tough that we need to sacrifice right off the go? … oh well, it resulted in a run.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this
Not bad 1 run…gotta start somewhere….
By Del
August 23, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
Same-O Same-O. Get em on, leave em stranded! Not a promising start.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
Wayne Did you read my 6:46 post? Anyway do you want some drugs dude? Because now you are asking Coach if he is smoking something!!! If you need some I might can see what I can do for you!!! I will try to find somebody out there in Utah that has some!!! Just let me know dude!!! :)
By doug
August 23, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this
First Grinch, then Lew. I swear this Coach (excuse for a blogger) is the biggest waste of space I have ever had the misfortune of reading. i have been reading this since Letwan days, and i got to tell ya, Coach deserves everything
Rock on guys, Coach suks
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this
Hey, Why haven’t FSN/SportSouth had a radar gun reading on the last few braves telecasts? I noticed the odd 52 mph reading (obviously false, as Wickman wasn’t pitching) which may have indicated a technical glitch. Still, it is annoying. Kind of like taking the first down line away from football telecasts.
By Paladin.
August 23, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this
Savannah Guy Chrisklob Grinch give me a holler when you come aboard.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this
Ron I take so many drugs that my daily pills could choke a horse. Probably don’t need any more. But thanks!
Interesting: Several posts say good start, to get one run. One post says we left runners on base, bad start!! I guess that goes to show you can’t please all.
It’s like Mick Jagger says, “You can’t always get what you want, Braves, But if you bunt sometimes, you get what you need.”
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this
Gotta run out for a couple of hours. Thank goodness for XM.
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this
Colin:
Well, let’s take a look, shall we?
Carlos Silva: ERA+: 102(slightly above league average) WHIP:1.275
JoJo Reyes: ERA+: 45(Need I say more?) WHIP:2.055
Now I will not say that Silva would have “saved our season,” but let’s just hypothetically think here: Braves win 88 games, lose wildcard by 1 game. Would Silva have made a difference then? You bet he would have. I wouldn’t have given anything of great value for him, seeing as he is (as I have previously stated) an average pitcher as well as an upcoming free agent, but saying he wouldn’t be better than JoJo Reyes has been…that’s just plain stupid. You are stupid for saying that. Dumb dumb dumb dumb.
BTW: Reyes will definitely be a much better pitcher than Silva or any other option we could have reasonably explored at the deadline, but if we want to win NOW, Silva is the better bet, hands down.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this
Colin,
Having 1st and 2nd with 1 out and not getting a run sucks. No two ways about it.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
That is what we call perfect execution on the sac bunt..
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
August 23, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this
Lew , you dumb as a three foot thick post. I’m right about Scott Thorman and nobody in the Braves front office wants to admit it. He would/could have had a fourth option year if they had done the paper work and they obviously didn’t. So , yea. Thorman’s out of options and I AM COMPLETELY CORRECT.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this
Wayne Cool man!!! LOL!!!
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
August 23, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this
Lew , I’m gonna had you your .a.s.s later on today or maybe I’ll just wait till tomorrow.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this
Anybody who says Andruw is still a defensive “force”…AJ gets to that Hatteberg ball 5 years ago.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this
i guess it was under
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this
Hey Shaun, when a pitcher bunts into a double play pop up, and i just called that in the morning……. do you think thats buddys fault?
Bobby Cox doesnt even knows what are the braves weak points and deficiencies. Therefore a pitcher that is not very good at pitching cant even help himself with the bat. And the braves might lose by a run that could have scored with efficient small ball.
By Coach (PUT UP OR SHUT UP)
August 23, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this
This is for all you KNUCKLE DRAGGERS. Think you know this game as well as me ? The solution to the Braves pitching woes is obvious. Figure it out Lew , no you won’t. Some highly intelligent reader will chime in and explain just how the Braves can turn into a .600 team.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this
Right now ill have to tip my hat to Carlos Beltran, he has been carring the mets for a week now.
By Correctness Meter.
August 23, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this
No Coach, you are not COMPLETELY CORRECT. By your own admission you are only right 90% of the time. By our calculation, you are seldom right, even about the time of day.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this
And there’s ANOTHER ball that Andruw used to get (Encarnacion’s fly to center).
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this
Whatever everyone thinks he is our savior but….you will not ever change my opinion….If we get him and he wins well good..but i can see him being no different than our 4 starter….
I would like to thank Buddy for blowing this lead….
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this
Anders et al: Thanks. So there were some “rumors” of such a deal. That’s more than nothing I suppose. Not highly credible but at least it’s something. So, I’ll take that.
Now, Coach or anybody, where is the documentation that the BoSox were interested in a Wickman/Gobbard trade or whatever it was?
I’d heard Wickman was offered around but no one took. I’m not sure that was entirely JS’s fault. Wickman did a good job of making himself undesirable right round the trade deadline.
And there we go. A perfectly good lead is immediately handed back. Battle back boys. This time, get about 30 runs.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
Good night CINCY
By Stephen
August 23, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
Carlyle you suck.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Geesh,
I can’t believe this team………..They find new ways to lose every night.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Buddy Carlyle…all he has to do is throw the ball to second base on the pickoff and we’re out of the inning. Nope, he can’t, and he tosses a big wad of pus up to the plate that gets squashed.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
That’s it!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
ijonathan ill have to disagree with you on that one….. AJ is still a defensive force, havent you seen how many runs he has prevented the braves from scoring this year?
He even added another dimension to his defense, now he defends with his bat also and he defends for both teams, the braves and their opponents.
Shaun do you think that fault is buddys? think twice pal, when almost all players are doing stupid things on the field, it most be some coincidence they are all bad ball players.
By Coaches' Manacurist
August 23, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
I have to admit that I do Coach for free. He has drug his knuckles so long that there are no nails left.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH But yet in Colin’s little world Silva aint nothing!!! Im sure he was saying how STUPID the Cardinals were last year when they signed Weaver!!! How did that work out for them? Exactly!!! Anything is possible!!! Why could’nt Silva help us out, not only in the regular season, but also in the playoffs!!! But Whatever I guess!!! Colin has proved alot of things while on this blog!!! Making Sense is not one of them!!!
By Del
August 23, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this
Turn out the lights Gracie. The day is done!!
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this
Coach, if you’re thinking what I’m thinking…no, it wouldn’t make us a .600 ball club.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this
OK, What did Cox argue about this time?
Not going to fire this team up with it. I’d imagine after yet again losing an early lead they’ll just put their heads down and try to get out of there as soon as possible. Cincy has a really tough bullpen. HA!
By Colin
August 23, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this
Nice inning…good 5 minutes…
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this
Not even bobby cox wants to cheer the braves anymore….. he just in purpose started barking so the umpire ejected him, maybe he has a date with some lady and didnt wanna miss……..
aaaa$$$$$$hole
By Apaul404
August 23, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this
Great job Buddy. God help this team.
By JasonInMaine
August 23, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
This team awful…
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this
Can I go to bed now?
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this
Man if our bottom 3 starters can’t hold down the lowly Reds - Boys(and girls) we are not going to make the playoffs! Smoltz and Hudson are not going to wins enough games to get us there. We will hang around trying to win the Wild Card, but if not even one of bottom 3 starters can’t pick it up soon, I’m sorry I will have to join the naysayers and say it is not going to happen this year.
I love my Braves, but this is just down right sad.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this
This team really looks like a team of the 80s, almost swept by the REDS!!!!!!!
WOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!! There goes your wildcard.
Once again congratulation to the mets for at least showing more balls than this braves team.
By Iowa Brave
August 23, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this
Give up 5 runs and our vaunted offense comes back with a 1-2-3 7 pitch inning. Time to change that October vacation from Atlanta to Bermuda.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this
Poor Wayne, got XM only to pop it in the car hear the 5 run meltdown and jackknife into Mount Zion.
By W. Brown
August 23, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this
Braves are toast this year. Can’t win with only two decent pitchers. The bats also don’t work on the nights that one of the others in the rotation has a decent game. The bats have been shut down by some mediocre pitchers on poor teams. Looks like several years before they get back unless they keep trading their good young talent. In this case, it may be never.
By supa
August 23, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this
This has to be the most predictable team in history.
You just knew that Jo-Jo, Cormier, and Carlyle in back-to-back-to-back starts signaled 3 straight losses.
The “outscore them” strategy isn’t working too well, but if we hadn’t gotten Tex, we might not even be a .500 team.
By bill
August 23, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this
The season is over!!!!!!! Put us out of our misery. Can someone explain to me, BC actions. It doesn’t do the team any good for him to be thrown out so many times. BC has lost control of this team and game. I’m tired of all the excuses.
By geauxbraves2000
August 23, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this
2-1 Cincy, two out I believe, I go to take a shower, come back to 5-1, the Braves already finished in their half of the inning, and Cox tossed.
Not bad for about 5 minutes.
I want to have hope for this team, but as the #3-5 positions keep throwing junk, I’m starting to lose it. The division is pretty must toast right now, and the only reason the Braves are still in the WC hunt is because of the extremely mediocre #4 playoff position.
Oh well, what can you do?
Geaux Braves!!
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
To bad the Drooler isn’t here to say HaHaHaHaHaHa! We deserve it.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this
If we trade all players from atlanta, would all new players play like tex?
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this
I am keeping track of the game on Gameday. I presume Bobby was ejected because he was arguing balls and strikes. I know one of the called balls that would have been a third strike to Hamilaton was clearly inside Gameday’s strike Zone.
Here’s hoping Bobby’s ejection lights a fire under our hitters.
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this
Sorry, ncscoots, you are going to have to lump me in with the Spartans. This is pathetic. I’m going to bed, permission or not.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this
I love my Braves, but if we don’t get Contreras or Tracsel in the next 4-5 days I’m going to scream. We can’t keep going into gunfights with slingshots
Magnificent Seven is on. Yul Brenner, Steve McQueen, James Coburn, Robert Vaughn, Eli Wallach, Charles Bronson. I have to catch on the Western channel on DirecTV. I remember watching this movie on TBS twice a year. Times have changed.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this
I will say this. Carlyle sure has crashed back down to Earth and in a hurry. Maybe he’s been sharing strategies with JoJo. How soon can Hampton pitch again?
Why is that the 3-5 starters feel it necessary to not just give up the leads but do it no later than the 3rd inning.
By h_charles
August 23, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
A lot of angry people on the board.
This lost season is a result of one factor alone. The Braves utter inability to develop a front-line starter.
EVERY team at the top has at least one stud developed from their own farm. Mets — Maine Padres — Young, Peavy Phils — Hamels D-Backs — Webb.
These are top shelf guys. All-stars. How long has it been since we developed one? At least 10 YEARS !!! If you give the benefit of the doubt, you go back to Millwood, who isn’t really a stud. Take him out and you have Schmidt.
That is the sole issue. If we had developed just one pitcher, we would be neck and neck with the Mets. Instead we tread water with Chuck James. Worst part is that despite our obvious lack of quality pitching, we just traded Matt Harrison and spent our first THREE draft picks on position players. Hopefully Reyes will learn not to completely unravel every time he gets a baserunner, because he may have the stuff. If not him, it is going to be another long wait.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
This is in honor of Robert, who is silent right now…
Buddy Carlyle actually hit for himself. I guess the bench coach didn’t hear Bobby whinnying, snorting and stomping his hooves in the tunnel to the clubhouse.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this
When this team gets punched in the mouth early, they lay there and wait for the bell. There was no reason to think that Buddy, Jo-Jo, Chuck, or Lance were anything more than 5th starters.
At least Trachsel or Contreras would give you quality starts every 4 to 5 days.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
Leave it to this team to make the Lizard look good.
How accurate is the GameDay strike zone. I read the Braves pulled it up to see where the pitches were for Tex last night. I assumed they were all close, but read they were a foot off the plate. I’ve seen some games where GameDay puts the green ball right in the middle of the plate. So I have a hard time believing it’s a good source.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
h_Charles: Young wasn’t developed by the Padres. He was developed by the Ranges. So in a way, that is yet another team that can develop a pitcher.
By geauxbraves2000
August 23, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
The lack of plate discipline is what is hurting this offense. You have got to make the opposing pitcher work. Work the count, see what he has, find a pitch you like and whack it. You might make an out, but at least you hit your pitch.
Look at this inning so far, Buddy saw 7 pitches. Granted he struck out, but Ramirez had to work. Harris walks on four straight, Kelly walks on 6 pitches, two on. Ramirez has to work.
Geaux Braves!!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
Front office is dumber than cox, woooooowwwwwww, thats must be a guiness world record right there. Why are they keeping this sad story up?
Bobby, AJ, no starting pitching available, rainy days, cows falling from sky, injuries, STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!!
Bobby cox should have been gone years ago. Shaun says he does not represents more than 5 wins a year, so whats the point on keeping him around?
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this
Chipper is the man. He is soooo clutch. 5-5. Brand new ball game, fellas.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this
I wonder if Chipper just deaked them with that shoulder wince. Because he sure swung that bat with authority
By geauxbraves2000
August 23, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
My point exactly. Ramirez had to work. CJ got his pitch and he whacked it, tie game.
WTG Chipper!!
By parks
August 23, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
LMAO at most of yall
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
CHIPPPERRR!!!
Alright this team is back in it. The Division is ours. The Wild Card will be a distant memory. World Series here we come!
GO BRAVES
By Coach (PUT UP OR SHUT UP)
August 23, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
Um , let me see. I correctly predicted that Hudson would come back and have a great season , that Escobar would be an everyday player , that trading for Teixeira would not improve the Braves playoff chances , that the Mets would win the division , the Braves would be a wild card team….. should I keep going or has the blog heard enough ?
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
Thats my boy!!!!! Finally a man steps up besides tex.
But im not even happy yet, there is on my mind the same thing players have on their minds……. bullpen is not gonna hold up.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
“OK, What did Cox argue about this time?”
Well, since there WAS nothing to argue about, consider this
MAYBE, just MAYBE, Cox realizes that it really is crunch time. The Braves need to win this game. So he figures that getting himself ejected maximizes their chances of that happening
If it’s true, he’ll do it every night from here til the end of the season, and if he does, I’d call it managerial wizardry
By Colin
August 23, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
WOW nice hit chipper…this park is a sandbox…
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
Way to go Chipper - New Ballgame!!!
By chipdip
August 23, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
CHIPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IS A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Ron
August 23, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
Chipper is the man!!! The dude is playing through alot of pain!!!
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this
Chipper!!! YESSS!!!
By Robert
August 23, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this
Comeback, baybeee - This’ll make the third time in a row that the Braves win after Donk gets tossed
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this
And Maine came from the Orioles in exchange for Benson…
But I know what you mean.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
Wow Contreras or Trachsel….Im not saying anything
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
Did you see chipper giving high5 to tex after the HR? This guy is having a really bad time. He is not happy, zero emotions. He didnt even wanted to give the high5. He only did it because he was on TV.
By ncscoots
August 23, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
What’s wrong with Chipper? Doesn’t he know he’s supposed to lay down and quit in the 4th inning?
Just ask most in-game bloggers.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
Long lasted tie…nice nice….i love these braves…
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
Bobby cox should have been gone years ago. Shaun says he does not represents more than 5 wins a year, so whats the point on keeping him around?
HAHAHAHA. That one made me laugh.
By Braveheart
August 23, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
Too much b***, not enough pitching.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
See, this is what well-managed teams do. When they get a big hit to tie a ballgame, they make sure to give it right back up
As for Carlysle staying in the game - the mistake was made the previous nights.
By burning his bullpen, he basically put himself in the spot that he needs 7 innings out of Carlyle , even if he coulnt get Scott Thorman out
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
Geesh,
Carlyle just can’t stand to have a tie or a lead I guess.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
CRAP! And there it goes again. The season is over. Hang ‘em up. Just forfeit and start retooling. What a waste!
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
Was a new game! 6-5 Reds now. This team leaves me speachless.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this
Jeff, Jeff, jeff…it’s okay to swing at the first pitch, but not when it is at your head.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this
h_charles Dude Maine was in the Orioles system!!! The Mets got him in the Kris Benson trade!!!
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this
Well so much for momentum. Buddy gives it right back to them.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this
The official scorer in Cincy is an utter moron.
By AZBravoFan
August 23, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this
This is starting to look just like last year. The offense is forced to either come back from a huge deficit; or, after staking the team to a huge lead and seeing it squandered, they are force to come up with another rally. How many times do they have to win the game? Last year it was the bullpen most of the time. This year it’s the back end of the rotation AND the bullpen. Unless somebody starts getting some outs, this season is over. Fortunately, no one else wants to run away with it yet.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this
Okay, I’m really not quite sure why the Cincy manager feels he needs to bring in a lefty to face THORMAN…that is actually a Bobby Cox type move. Hopefully that will get Matt Diaz in the game to face him.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this
Colin no disrespect, but you mean to tell me what we have at 3-5 is better than Contreras or Trachsel. At least those guys have pitched in in meaniingful games in September and October.
The Braves are at that point, they got nothing after Smoltz and Huddy. Not a damn thing.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this
Scott Thorman needs to have his shining moment for the Braves right here.
By the way 6-1 Padres. Lose tonight and its 4 back in the loss for the Wild Card and still 7 back in the loss for the division.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this
MATT DIAZ MAT DIAZ MATT DIAZ MATT DIAZ
By bill
August 23, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
JS sits on his a— and does nothing. Try something if it’s wrong. It can’t be no worse than the problems now. Dodgers sign David Wells. They are not afraid to take a chance.
By chipdip
August 23, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
scott thorman blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By chipdip
August 23, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
scott thorman blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!donkeys
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
Well….that was predictable….Thorman double play….inning over
By chipdip
August 23, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
scott thorman blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!donkeys!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Stephen
August 23, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
Oh, wow, Scott thorman hitting into a double play. At least he does something useful every other night, right!
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this
Thorman is f*** useless.
And Buddy is a journeyman for a reason people. It was bound to happen.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this
I am so frustrated I can hardly type this post. With a potential rally brewing and arguably your best hitter (yet again) on the bench, you let Thorman p!ss himself into a double play.
Meanwhile, we complain to the umps about calls. Ridiculous.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
Look at that crap!!! Damn Thorman!!! Who would yall rather have up there in THAT situation? Woodcrap, Thorman, OR Julio Franco? And where is Julio? In the Damn Minors!!! Our BEST pinch hitter is in the Damn minors!!! Thats how dedicated the Braves are to winning!!! I understand you cant just release Thorman, but damn, You gotta have your best pinch hitter on the team!!! And Julio is not here!!! BOGUS!!!
By Geoff
August 23, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this
I guess I will probably be one of many to say…. Thorman is a waste of life at the plate… this guy has yet to adjsut to his new role as a pinch-hitter… and probably never will… anything but a DP in that situation would have worked
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this
Ill Join the parade for the phrase: THIS TEAM IS A JOKE. Why didnt they used matt? HHMMMMM, is bobby still in the dogout? Is Diaz Hurt or something? Comebacker to the mound. This is WOW night at the park.
By cricket
August 23, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this
Considering the fact that Buddy had low pitch count and Thor’s hitting IQ is way lower than Buddy’s pitch count today, I would have preferred Buddy hitting for himself.
By zimo z
August 23, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
What do the Braves pitchers and the Red Hot Chili Peppers have in common?
give it away, give it away, give it away, give it away, now…
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
Problem is ———- how are we gonna comeback? only 3 innings left and the reds have all these cy youngs in the bullpen.
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
OK someone explain to me why in any RISP do you bat Thorman? Can someone please explain? Well he at least hit the ball, but unfortunately right into a double play. Is Diaz hurt? Things that make you go Hmmmm.
Oh by the way, why did Terry get tossed?
By JasonInMaine
August 23, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
How in the flying he!! Do you not PH Diaz there? Bobby knew that a lefty would be brought in…why would anyone ever use 2 out Thor in that situation? Man, he is awful…not trading him and having him take meaningful ABs s killing us…I would have much rather had Julio up in that spot…
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
That was a surprise leaving ThorWOman in there. Where was Matty D.?
By Iowa Brave
August 23, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
If I’m counting right, that is 10.1 consecutive scoreless IP for the Reds BP vs the Braves. I’m betting that is the longest stretch that they have had all year.
By Steve
August 23, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
Can someone explain why Thorman was sent up to pinch-hit and Diaz wasn’t. The Braves are down by one run, 1st and 2nd with 1 out in the 6th inning. This is a critical moment of the game. Why are we sending up a 217 hitter when we have a 344 hitter available? I’m assuming this was Cox’s decision, even if he was thrown out earlier.
By Savannah Guy
August 23, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
The Daily Buzz (Fly on Wall Report No. 017)
(Fly languagetranslated for your convenience).
Interview With A Vampire Blogger
As Fly, sleuth reporter has been buzzing around looking for his next Braves story, he stumbled onto the strangest of oddities. Fly’s cell phone rang…it was from a stranger, calling from an old run-down Holiday Inn on the outskirts of Atlanta. The creature spoke softly…called itself a vampire blogger…Fly was intrigued, so he hitched a ride on a Harley with a reporter pal and his new girlfriend (she cuddled Fly…Fly liked…another story).
Fly arrived at last and knocked on the door of room posted as number 3:33. The door creaked open so he cautiously entered. The curtains were drawn, and what looked like months of Chinese takeout containers all over the floor. There was a foul odor in the room…an odor only a Metfly could like. A pale, gaunt creature was sitting at his computer. He seemed mesmerized by whatever he was staring at on the screen. He was quietly muttering, “my precious”. Getting a bit nervous at this scene and fearing that he would have his insides sucked of vital life force, Mr. Fly decided to interview the vampire from a safe distance…the ceiling above this dark, musky, crypt-like room.
Mr. Fly: So, how did you become a vampire blogger?
Vampire: Once upon a time, I wanted to be a baseball player. One night, as I was watching a little league game, fantasizing about playing, a goofy kid swung at a pitch and lost his bat. Wham…the bat hit me square in the head. Knocked me out for a year.
Mr. Fly: Uh…did you ever play after that?
Vampire: NO. I became a recluse. I have no friends. I am negative because the world is unfair and stupid. My doctor says I have obsessive-compulsive disorder. It was all that kids fault…and that stupid bat. People don’t like to talk to me but that’s fine because they are stupid. Eventually they will break.
Mr. Fly: Right…I see. OK see you around sometime…
Vampire: WAIT!!!…I want to be general manager for the Braves. You can help.
Mr. Fly: Oh, OK…so, you think you could manage without even a little baseball experience? I can help?
Vampire: Of course, because I WATCH the games on TV and I see everything that’s wrong with this team. You are friends with John Schuerholz.
Mr. Fly: Hmmm. Well, yes John and I are pals, but…
Vampire: Schuerholz is an IDIOT!!! He should have gotten good starting pitching. Instead, he just stupidly gets TEX and thinks we will win. Stupid idiot!
Mr. Fly: Don’t you think he tried to get a starting pitcher? Don’t you think everybody on the blog knows that we need that? There were none available for any reasonable price and without mortgaging our…
Vampire: SHUT UP!!! You, John, the blog and Bobby don’t know anything. If I were JS we would NOW have about three new starters, including SILVA. The Braves would be in first. So tell YOUR idiot pal Johnny boy to fire himself and name me as general manager. Before GM I will take over as blog reporter and kick DOB out!!! LOL!!!IF ONLY he would have gotten Sliva, but NO!!! Look at GM Ryan. LOL!!! He did NOT take hardly nothing for Castillo!!!
Mr. Fly: Owww…
Vampire: What’s wrong? Does truth HURT? LOL!!!
Mr. Fly: Uh, “did not hardly take nothing”…oh, never mind. My, um…ear hurts, that’s all. So…why would John do that? Why would DOB? You don’t have…
Vampire: SHUT UP!!! Listen Fly, I spend all of my waking hours on that damn DOB blog trying to tell those stupid MORONS what the hell is up and all they do is call ME names and disagree!!! They act just like everybody else in my life. But I will win. They will listen!!! I will keep on and on until they give up and agree with ME!!!
Mr. Fly: Uh…why the need to convince everyone of…
Vampire: SHUT UP FLY!!! LOL!!!
To Be Continued…
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
This team breaks my heart. They kill me. What’s funny, is the Braves only win when SD, NYM, and Philly win as well. That’s because they have similar problems.
Thorman sucks, rather have Julio.
What also bites is that the Braves kill the Padres and Muts but get clobbered by the Reds and D’Backs. The D’Backs are talented but I think they play in a really weak division, hence their standing.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this
CHIPPERRRRR
World Series here we come!
GO BRAVES!!
By Supes
August 23, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
Congratulations SCOTT THORMAN You’ve reached the status of completely useless!
If it’s not a 3 pitch K it’s a DP!
Plate Ump Tonight is screwing the Braves on some calls!
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
Chipper goes clutch again. He’s something else!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this
I dont about you, but chipper really is something, He is the top player the braves have had alltime, right there with Aaron and Maddux. I never saw Aaron play, but Maddux was unbelievable and chipper? He is impressive, right there with pujols, jeter, guerrero, etc. Nothing but a real superstar.
If i was AJ i would be ashame of myself asking for more than 75% of what chipper makes a year.
By JJMB
August 23, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this
Chippa! Mein Gott, we have to score 10 runs to win a game.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this
WOW A RUN OFF THE CINCY BULLPEN!!!!!
WORLD SERIES HERE WE COME!!!!!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
I need another vacation, this team drives me insane.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
Buddy “kept us in the game”. We have the lead. Its time for the offense and bullpen to show up. And yes, I want more than a one run lead so the offense shouldn’t be done…..
By bullet36
August 23, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
There are a couple things I’d like to vent about: Scott Thorman has no business being on a major league roster. Period. Also, is anyone else tired of those Diet Pepsi Max commercials that come on every commercial break?
By Ron
August 23, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
Chipper again, now Tex!!! Thats what I am talkin about!!!
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
TEIXEIRA!!!!
Braves are winning. Nothing can stop them. They are unbeatable. WS Here we come!
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
Tex comes up huge again. Big Tex fan. Frenchy just got robbed for the 3rd straight game. Encarnacion can pick it at 3B.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
6-4 padres, mets coming back. I don’t know what to say on that one.
By Geoff
August 23, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
I know we always say its Frenchy’s nature to be aggressive but WTF man…. 5 pitches equals 4 outs… he really has got to mix in a take every once in a while…
By Supes
August 23, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
Chipper and Tex are clutch!
Mac just missed a great pitch to drive out of the park
Jeff must have done something wrong, b/c he has been robbed of a hit more times in this 4 game series than all year long! Maybe he needs to go say a prayer in church or something!
1 run lead, brace yourselves, this game is a microcosm of the Braves Season so far!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
Brooklyn I didnt know there was such thing as a tough division in the NL.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
7-6 Mets. We are not catching that team. They are flat out more hungry…….. and better.
By bravesfan
August 23, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
NYM 7 SD 6 Anderson 3 run HR. Who do we want to win I am saying SD, what about yall?
By This Year, Next Year
August 23, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
It’s as plain as the nose of your face.
If the Braves are going to TRY and make the playoffs this year, then they are going to have to suck up a couple mil extra and try to sign David Wells. What is he going to do at worst??? Go 3 and give up 5 or 6 runs? So what? If he stinks, you’ve lost a couple mil. Thats it!
Wells makes sense cause you just pay him and use him until October..(longer if you make the playoffs) Since he was designated for assignment, you don’t have to over pay by sending a good prospect away for him.
Anyone else who has cleared waivers will involve probably overpaying for in a trade.
Either you do a deal with him….. or you just admit defeat by going with the 3-5 we have.
So which is it?
By Geoff
August 23, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
Comical… downright comical!
By Ron
August 23, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
Our Best Reliever is now stinkin!!! This aint good folks NOT GOOD AT ALL!!!
By zimo z
August 23, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
give it away, give it away, give it away, give it away, now…
give it away, give it away, give it away, give it away, now…
By SteelCav
August 23, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
Mets now lead 7-6 and now a blown save for Moylan. If that isn’t our season in a microcosm, I don’t know what is.
Have fun playing golf boys.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t you know it. Encarnacion makes a great play at 3B on defense, then comes up and clobbers a HR to left.
Braves can’t stand prosperity. They kill me. Muts up 7-6, now.
By cricket
August 23, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this
Mets are now leading over SD. Never thought I would say this, but go mutts. Now only if we manage to win a freaking game!! BTW both Bobby and TP r out of the game. I don’t know who’s making the decisions but as usual feel free to blame bobby for whatever happens.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
Still want Moylan to close? Didn’t think so.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this
7-6 Mets Efrim…….That’s what you can say.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this
CRAP Season’s over. They should retract the franchise. This is pointless! Trade everyone and rebuild
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
7 of 8 stolen bases vs Moylan this year. Hmmm
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
Just need Moylan to get us through the 7th tied, would have rather had the lead.
By ceasar
August 23, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this
All is lost. We must fall on our swords.
By The Grinch
August 23, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
Ok, I’m back. WTF?
Ron, it doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re forced to pitch every night. You WILL eventually become ineffective.
By dan
August 23, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
Is it possible to send down the 3,4,and 5 pitchers and just bring up 3 new guys can they be any worse.
By SteelCav
August 23, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this
* NO CHOP * - Show some class for once. You guys have the better team now. No need to rub our noses in it.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this
Touchet, Overlord! The teams that are in the hunt in the NL make it hard on themselves from time to time.
By Supes
August 23, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this
bravesfan I want the BRAVES to win, just win a darn game! Obviously Wild Card is more realistic at this point. In all it maybe beneficial if the Phils and Pads both lose tonight.
Peter Moyland looks tired, or looks like he still can’t get a good grip in the baseball when he’s pitching in this series, here is a thought, why not wear short sleeves! Might not as be as hot and sweat as much?
By SteelCav
August 23, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
Look at next year guys….Hampton’s back, we trade Renteria for a #4 starter and move Chuckie to the 5 spot. Now that’s a rotation and a recipe for a return to glory.
By ncscoots
August 23, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this
I don’t believe in pitchers calling out position players, or vice versa. But sometime tomorrow, a pitcher might just have to die. Chipper may take out half the staff himself. Three leads in a game, immediately given right back. Even I will admit that’s…just…brutal.
I’m not a big believer in closed door meetings, either, but Chipper might have something to say to the squad tomorrow. Regardless of the game outcome.
By Señor Blanco
August 23, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox para el presidente!
El presidente de México!
By Ron's Dad
August 23, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
Don’t take Ron too seriously, he hates me for everything. Lord knows tried to be a good father, but I always seemed to disappoint him. We once finished 2nd in the potato sack race at the father son picnic. He wouldn’t speak to me for a month. When I bought him a Firebird on his 16th birthday, he cursed me because he wanted a Camaro. Son, please call me.
By bullet36
August 23, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
The Dodgers just signed David Wells. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2988849
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
Matty D needs to stay in the game despite the DP he just grouded into. At this point the name of the game is to keep hitting.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
Those who are born with mental deficiencies deserve our understanding … Coach’s behavior is classical textbook and his deficiencies are acquired.
Coach, God gave you fingers for two important purposes, eating and counting … you may have Peter The Great’s fingers but they’re still not long enough to reach across the Internet, so pointing them is pointless!
Boasting of one’s own abilities and accomplishments and degrading those of others is acceptable behavior for young children … but it’s as boorish as it is inane, for others to so do … a sad commentary indeed, for you to be so doing, don’t you think … it’s almost as if you suffer from some form of role model reversal and feel drawn to emulate the kids you once coached … your right Coach, it’s just my opine.
Relax, you’re among friends! We all know you and what you are … your demons, struggles, burdens and such, not much different from those of anyone else … there’s no hiding behind the mask … for you, for me … we’re all alike. Lew says you’ve attained perfection … Lew’s right about most things, but I don’t believe it!
You might as well get used to it … your not and idiot coach, just mediocre like most of us.
Like Salty says, the difference being smart and dumb is just a matter of perception … no, Salty didn’t really say exactly that but that was my perception of what he said.
It’s a team game … methinks our GM always tries to do what he thinks is in the best interest of the organization … those who otherwise so think are chemically unbalanced or for some reason prejudiced … those who are critical of his decisions are foolish, unless they are privileged to more information than I believe to be available.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Donk gets tossed
The team comes back twice in one game. Andruw is 3 for 4
It’s like giving a sick patient antibiotics - they immediately get better
Now the only problem is that Donk’s recent misuse of the bullpen has to be overcome for a few more innings
But this is the best the team has looked since those back to back Donkectomies earlier this month
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Ok time for a little positive thinking. Hold’em here top of the lineup next inning scores at least one, Wickman comes in and closes the game.
Remember, we are thinking positive!!! : )
By Supes
August 23, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Terrible at bat by Matt Diaz, he normally doesn’t do that bad of a job in the pitch hitting role.
Can’t decide if the Braves have the weakest bench in the NL, after the Harris/Diaz Platoon…there is nothing.
Worthless piece of garbage Scott Thorman
Woodcrap who is a plant by the Mets for sure.
Corky Miller? Seriously?
How fast can we get Julio Franco back up, Brandon Jones and Littlebridge called up from the minors? Sept. 1st can’t come up fast enough.
By The Truth Hurts
August 23, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
Dodgers are taking a chance on Wells, huh? Interesting.
Soriano in the 8th. A nice, calm, relaxing 8th. A 1-2-3 8th. Right, Raffy?
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
Shaun once again braves are unable to put down a bunt, this time, Yunel, i would have to say this kid is a professional, he has baseball in his blood. Nevertheless he cant put a bunt down. 2 bunt attemps by the braves, 2 failures.
I made that call this morning.
Bobby and company need to take the time to teach the little thing to everybody on the team.
If this game is lost, i wouldnt look to the lack of pitching, but the inability to put down a bunt twice.
By HaRdTiMe
August 23, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
Real nice. Another blown save. 2 pinch hit attempts = 2 douple plays. Ya think we can start to look forward to ‘08? Give me a break!
By Braves20
August 23, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this
Where oh where are all those bloggers who keep saying we really don’t have a problem beyond Smoltz and Hudson?
Another 4-inning night in prospect for the pen. And we wonder why Soriano and Moylan have lost some of their effectiveness.
Our front office did not see the wisdom of picking up David Wells. Oh well, maybe he can help us by beating the Muts for the Dodgers this weekend
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this
Wow, Soriano looked nasty. Whaddya know, he’s had some rest lately.
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this
Man, Soriano sure looked good.
By HaRdTiMe
August 23, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this
And why the h@ll is Thorman and Woodward taking up roster spots? Pink slip ‘em to the minors!
By Supes
August 23, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Are my eyes deceiving me! A 1-2-3 inning from Soriano, no HR balls served up!!! Well, at least some positive news from the pen tonight. Maybe, just maybe Soriano can turn the corner.
Need the offense to come up big again in the top of the 9th! Come on Chipper, Tex and crew, get it started!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Soriano is looking better, much better, and i would say the diference is that in the last 10 days this is only his 4th appearance. That is so different than pitching 7 times in 10 days, as he did in early august and june and july.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Soriano has been pitching better lately. Nice to see him pitch a scoreless and hitless 8th. We may see Manny Acosta in a bit.
By Dwight Fry
August 23, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Anyone who thinks that Mike Hampton will come back as a viable starter is dreaming.
By TexasBrave
August 23, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this
Ok - Way to go Soriano. Now for a little Offense.
Positive thinking, Positive thinking!!!
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
10Paul Missed Mount Zion, but ran the rig into the ditch!
Hey, what was BC arguing that got him tossed. XM Cincy broadcast team is as worthless as t!ts on a boar hog. No reporting, just listening to themselves speak.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
Sorianos has given up 2 ER in his last 8.2 IP, i think he is doing better…
They say dotel and james are showing progress.
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
Supes, I might be wrong but I think Moylan has to wear long sleeves because of his rather large amount of tattoos. I think Chip or Skip or somebody said that earlier in the year.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
Carroll Can you find out why there have been no radar gun readings from FSN/SportSouth lately?
By Savannah Guy
August 23, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this
The Daily Buzz (Fly on Wall Report No. 018)
(Continued…Interview With A Vampire Blogger)
The story continues where we left off, with Fly in the Holiday Inn trying to interview the vampire blogger, a self-described baseball expert. The conversation is getting a bit testy. Vampire is annoyed at the world and now Mr. Fly has been told to shut up. Fly is looking for an exit strategy:
Vampire: I told you to SHUT UP because I want to suck the life force out of the blog!!! Those disagreeable neophytes will soon feel the bite of my sharp wit and the venom of my intelligence. I told them over and over it is pitching pitching pitching!!! I was right right right!!! They will all come crawling to ME when I am Blogmeister. They will lick my boots when I am GM!!!
Mr. Fly: But…um, why would you want to suck blog life like that that? Don’t you…
Vampire: SHUT IT!!! Because the Kool-Aid people are stupid. COX and JS are stupid. Told it many times!!!They think the Braves can win. I must prove to them that the Braves are done. It’s OVER!!! Time to bury all hope. I will drain hope. LOL!!!.
Mr. Fly: Now I understand. Have to fly now…uh, I’m late for a root canal. Anything else?
Vampire: Get rid of that DOB!!! I will then ban all stupid people from the blog. Then talk to John. Tell him I will manage the Braves next year. Do it RIGHT NOW or else!!! I rest my case!!!
(Just as it seemed he would be trapped all afternoon by this crazed creature, Fly sees his chance to escape…the Pepsi commercial is on! As vampire yawns lovingly at the TV, Mr. Fly darts to the door. He’s in luck…it was left ajar…before Fly leaves he gives a parting shot
Mr. Fly: Uh, yes…you are a CASE. But you’re ok. Just chill dude. It’s just baseball. Get some sleep and all. All righty then…I’m outa’ here.
(Just as Fly made his quick escape out the door, dodging exclamation points and capitalized letters, a wildly agitated voice called out from the vampire’s room, “THERE you people go talking about Cardinals AGAIN!!! LOL!!! Take THIS!!! Take THAT!!! LOL!!! Fortunately, Fly sees DOB and his girl in the BBQ joint across the street…whew, Mr. Fly has a ride.)
DOB: Fly, what took you so damn long? My lady and me have places to go. Come on, I’ll drop you at the Ted. You get a story?
Mr. Fly: Davey! Well…not really. Not a funny story anyway. Maybe a black comedy, parody kinda’ horror movie thing. Weird…
DOB: Hey, if they want funny lettem read the AJC Editorial page, right pal? Ok then getcherazz on here before I give you a high hard one…chin music…just kidding pal. Let’s ride. Want some BBQ?
Mr. Fly: No thanks Davey. Me and Wicky are gonna get cheeseburgers.
(On the road again, as the sun begins to set behind the skyline of Atlanta, Mr. Fly is safe and sound, nestled in the pocket of DOB’s new girl. It’s all in a day’s work for the sleuth…Fly reporter.)
Vrrrooommm…
By Rip
August 23, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
This Tex guy - what a stiff. Strike out more often than Andruw.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
Is this guy Acosta for real?
He has looked good. But does he really has what it takes?
I hope he is not another disappointment from the farm.
We need a guy like him.
By Supes
August 23, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
The Braves had a chance, had our big hitters up with a man on base and they could do nothing against a washed up closer from years past.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
I know we are NOT going to lose by a walk off!!! Right? Right? Somebody please say right!!!
By DC Dave
August 23, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
Why the Braves are a .500 team 2 examples - Last night (Wed) Willie Harris blundered on the basepaths by not scoring on Chipper’s “single” off the wall with 2 on. Should have gone 1/2 way instead of tagging???. Then later made a no-chance throw to home that allowed a runner into scoring position (he did score). Tonight (Thursday), with 2 outs, Carlisle had the runner picked off 1st, threw to 3rd. God help me. Of course, followed by a 3-run homer, by the batter. Lack of good pitching in the 3-5 slots means you can’t play stupid.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 23, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
well, this game is frustrating. get a lead - lose a lead. get a lead - lose a lead. this journalist is enjoying a bowl of fresh freestone peaches. these peaches are sooo good that journalist forgot to watch the game for a few minutes. jimmy smith plans to take mrs. anthony a few peaches for a delicious pie and perhaps some of mrs. anthony’s famous homemade peach ice cream. this is some good eating.
and speaking of the anthony’s - letwan has returned from letwan’s travels and will soon resume blogging.
chino cadahia better not get thrown out tonight. running out of coaches. not much camera time for chino. who nose why?
and more peaches: PEACH COBBLER 3 Pt. Chopped Peaches 1 1/2 Cup of Water 2 Cups of Sugar 4 Tbsp. Cornstarch Pinch of Salt 2 Sticks of Margarine 1 Tbsp. Red Food Coloring Peel peaches and chop coarsely. Mix water , 1 stick of margarine and the peaches to boil for 3 minutes. Mix sugar, cornstarch, salt and food coloring and add to boiled peaches. Cook until filling has thickened. Pour into a 9 x 12 pan. Top with thin slices of peaches and add slices of biscuit dough to make crust. Bake at 400 degrees until golden brown.
and to the young blogger: wurlitzer is like pulitzer, only wurlitzer. hope that clears that up for the young blogger.
By The Grinch
August 23, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this
Damn. Andruw is still the man. Too bad our pitching hasn’t been this bad since the late 80’s.
By crazy random word guy
August 23, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
PROMENADE
By Braves20
August 23, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
BTW - another blown save by the Met’s Billy “Big Game” Wagner.
Would almost be fun to see the Mets actually make the post season to watch him choke as he does every year he gets there.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this
Mahay is clearly been overused…. if they dont stop it right now, they will blow our only lefty.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this
An Atlanta team being sponsored by Pepsi Cola … of all the insidious Communist plots … no wonder we’re having problems … surely they don’t let the players drink that stuff!
All this yankee carpetbagger immigration has to stop … Asa G would have reburned Atlanta before he let that happen … and I would have helped him!
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this
Efrim: I think, maybe you say: Padres 8 Mets 7 right now.
By Supes
August 23, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this
Great call to leave Soriano in there for the 9th, instead of bringing in another pitcher.
Andruw makes a great catch, he may have lost a step but he is still a pretty great center fielder, gonna miss that defense next year.
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this
RIGHT!
By beachcomber
August 23, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Superb work by Soriano - and best of all just 19 pitches.
Come on Braves let’s score - getting past this oldtimer’s bedtime!
By Ron
August 23, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
You can say how bad of an Offensive player Andruw is, BUT you cant say nothing Bad about his defense!!! I have NEVER seen a better defensive outfielder EVER!!! Great player!!!
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this
Mac is great, he is just blessed with catcher’s speed. Woodward is pinch running. Oh Lord, help me!
By Bruce Vilanch
August 23, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this
School marm + crack = “journalist” jimmy smith
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this
Soriano seems to have gotten himself right, hasn’t he?
Now, I see where Cox pinch-runs McCann with Woodward, so that Francoeur can quickly ground into a double play. So not only do we not get a runner over (with, I don’t know, maybe a bunt??), but we lose our starting catcher (and better hitting catcher, too) for the rest of the game, however long it goes.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
McCann should have tried for second. Anything in the gap, you gotta try. Okay, so you bring in woodcrap to run, why not try to bunt him over (you know, play for the tie at home, win on the road)…but no, it’s Francouer up, and Bobby would never ask one of his young studs to bunt.
So, if this game goes past this inning, we’ve got Corky in the game to catch, and our only pinch hitter is Prado?
By beachcomber
August 23, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
Bob, Journalist - your 9:59 post re that hideous pretender cola - right on!
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this
Nice to see McCann pinch run for again. Great to have Woodward come in and then be erased on a double play. What is the point? Now we lose a potential game winning hitter for an idiotic pinch runner. Sorry, McCann is slow, but his bat is a hell of a lot more important to this team in extra innings. Where is someone to rip Cox, you know he is in the tunnel telling Cadahia to pinch run for McCann.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
Esco is usually clutch in these situations, he has a great eye at the plate.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
Overlord,
I guess you’d rather Carlyle bunt into a double play than try to bunt a runner over. Cox can’t win; he gets criticized for not playing small ball, then he gets criticized for calling for a bunt.
Robert,
Where is your proof that Bobby is a bad manager? I have yet to see it. Give it to us. Everyone is waiting but all you do is call him a donkey or whatever your moronic simplistic, moronic brain can come up with.
There are quite a few folks on here that actually know about baseball. Where are you? Can you help me out with thes few morons that are clueless?
By journalist jimmy smith
August 23, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
well, we have seen thorman and now we are seeing woodward. someone explain why the braves must protect thorman. is thorman supposed to develop into something more than we are seeing now? perhaps a lumberjack? swings like chopping down a tree. would probably miss the tree. or dribble it to second. now, what team is going to give the braves anything for thorman? and 10 homeruns for tushy since coming to atlanta. shades of langerhans. and how is langerhans doing? and it is rumored that chino cadahia is “cookie” for the hunters who hunt at the double dime. can make stew and can make coffee. dance the salsa. oh, that is an ugly thought.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
Extra innings in this joke of a ballpark is not a good place to be for the Braves. Some cheap pop fly will end turning into a HR and they will lose this game.
By Supes
August 23, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
Had a chance and wasted it…now gotta hold the Reds big guns down!
Our bench is gone as well, we have nobody left…except Prado!
By Bruce Vilanch
August 23, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this
Hey, I can make a jimmysmithesque joke:
Jimmy Smith is so funny he should win the dumbell prize.
Get it? Dumbell rhymes with Nobel (sort of).
Now to be truly hilarious, repeat this 147 times.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this
Andruw’s first 3-hit game since July 18th, by the way, and only his 4th all year.
Now, here’s where batting Andruw as low as we have to has cost us, tonight. McCann and Francoeur have left 7 men on base, and Andruw’s 3 for 4 with 0 RBI.
This team seems snake-bit in ‘07.
By JJMB
August 23, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this
Bruce Vilanch, journalist jimmy smith may be an acquired taste, but if you were to study his posts, you’d realize he is the most intelligent and creative writer here.
Now that Grinch feller has extremely quick wit. Careful with him.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
Rob Neyer has an interesting blog. He writes about how a lot of folks think the Padres offense is bad, but they are actually fifth in the NL in road scoring. If you take away the fact that they play in one of the worst parks for hitters in the majors, if not the worst, it’s clear they are a good offensive club.
By Apaul404
August 23, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
I don’t know Ron, but I’ll say right anyway.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
By the way, did anyone get a kick out of Bobby throwing the chair in the dugout after he got tossed tonight??? The sentiment was there, but the chair only traveled about a foot and a half in distance. Not exactly an Olympic-quality toss.
By cricket
August 23, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
Manny freaking Acosta !!!!
By Apaul404
August 23, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
Cant wait till we get the expanded roster. The extra bullpen help might give us the boost we need to take the wildcard.
By Todd A
August 23, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
I swear McCann must be slower than Bruce Benedict.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
Manny Acosta better never be sent back down again. That guy’s G O O D!!!
By Supes
August 23, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
Manny Acosta has to stay and be a part of this Braves pen! He’s been very solid the past 2 times and has great “stuff” for a set-up type guy, 7th, 8th inning guy!
Let’s get some runs Braves!
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
Here is something priceless from firejoemorgan.com, their commentary on a Joe Morgan ESPN chat:
Jon (Clemson, SC): How many wins does a good manager give his team over a bad manager? Who do you think is the best current manager and the worst current manager? Why?
SportsNation Joe Morgan: Very good question. It depends on the team itself. A good manager with a good team over 162 games, and this is not an exact science, can make the difference in 10-15 games. A bad manager can make the difference in 20-30 games. It is much easier to lose a game than win one.
This is abject nonsense, even by Joe’s standards. If we take his high-end estimates, we find that a good manager “makes the difference” — presmuably meaning the difference between losing and winning the game — nearly once every 10 games. One out of every ten games? Really? Joe’s guess makes a good manager worth 45 Win Shares. You know how many players were worth 45 Win Shares last year? Zero. Albert Pujols was worth 38. But I guess Bobby Cox is more valuable than Albert. If baseball GMs were smart, they’d start paying managers what they’re worth. According to David Pinto, a win in 2005 cost about $880,000. That would make Bobby worth a cool $13,200,000.
Sorry that was all numbers and no jokes. Let’s not even get into the fact that Joe thinks a bad manager can lose you 30 games a year. Hey, it’s not an exact science.
By Steve
August 23, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
A few observations. We sure do seem to hit into a lot of double plays. And we seldom run bases in an aggressive manner. We have terrible base stealers and we don’t often seem to bunt well. So how about attempting more hit and runs so as to avoid double plays, as well as put pressure on the defense? And on a gapper to right center to lead off the top of the 10th, McCann should have attempted to get to 2nd. Make him throw you out from right center. Let’s be aggressive. Back in 1992 on the league championship winning hit, slow as molasses Sid Bream didn’t stop at 3rd, he kept coming. I have a feeling that on this particular Braves team, he would have stopped at 3rd.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
Ascosta is the MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone explain something to me, please! Manny is 26, how in the world is it that with his stuff he is only now getting a cup of coffee?? Well, it better be more like a pot or two of coffee, perhaps a closer next year????
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this
This is setting up real nice for a story book Wickman meltdown.
I love this Acosta kid. Just gets it done. Simple. To the point. The way a pitcher should be.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
That All-Time Gold Glove vote for CF is joke. AJ is way better than Jim Edmonds.
Willie just choaked on bunt attempt to move Prado to 2nd
By Apaul404
August 23, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
Terrible, that’s the second time tonight we could not get the bunt down.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
Mets tied it up. I think that is a good thing for us Braves fans. Another blown save for Trevor Hoffman. Seems like the Mets own him.
Nice bunt by Willie Harris. I think the entire market correction that we were all waiting for with Willie has happened in this series. Can’t even get a damn bunt down. He has played like a clown in this series.
By Todd A
August 23, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
Good ole Cox fundamentals. Way to go Willie.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
Hey shaun count them……..3 times the braves have not been able to put a bunt down……… 3 different players………what do u think that means?
All 3 players are dumb?
They dont practice basics……..its clear to me.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
A guy with Willie Harris’ speed should know how to lay down a damned bunt. Sheesh.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
leadoff hitters s/b able to get a bunt down
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this
Robert,
Answer this question: If managers are worth so much, why aren’t they paid like they make the impact you say they do? Why don’t they even get paid like coaches in other sports?
Could it be executives are actually smarter than you and realize how much good managers are actually worth (not all that much) and pay them accordingly? Or do you think Jim Leyland should be paid like ARod?
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
I’m just glad there is a site such as firejoemorgan.com. Brilliant. Simply Brilliant.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Todd A,
Yeah, because Cox morphed into Willie Harris, went up to bat and failed to get the bunt down. Jesus Christ, folks!!
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Kirk Saarloos came in with an ERA over 8.00. We didn’t touch him.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Kirk Saarloos came in with an ERA over 8.00. We didn’t touch him.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Kirk Saarloos came in with an ERA over 8.00. We didn’t touch him.
By Apaul404
August 23, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Hey Steve you got a point, we have our night’s where we clobber the ball but all too often when we just need that single or sac fly or bunt the fellas don’t come through. It really is maddening.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this
Leadoff single by Prado. He stays at first. Inning over.
Thanks for getting that bunt down, Willie Harris. You da man.
I am telling you, we are going to lose this game on a pop fly home run.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
Hate to see Yates right now, has a penchant for walking people.
By fastasballs
August 23, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
Glad the team is prepared to get a runner over. They have failed virtually every single time attempting to bunt a guy over in a crucial spot.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
They are trying. But they have so poorly trained at the fundamentals.
If they could lay down a bunt they wouldve won this game long ago
Hey, even if they lose, at least without Cox they were able to push it into extra innings
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
BravesDave
Hoffman is terrible whenever he is in a playoff game, all star game or against a NY team. He isn’t good on the big stage.
All
This is shaping up to be a big downer for us. Offense looks flat. Bullpen seems to be settling down……uh oh Yates is in. Bobby, why not keep Acosta in for one more inning???
By Supes
August 23, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
I have a bad feeling about this…Tyler Yates is in the game and the Reds just got their leadoff man on base!
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
Here comes the obligatory Tyler Yates meltdown.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
Stomach’s in knots. Tyler Yates on the way in.
By Todd A
August 23, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
For all the .290 + hitters in this lineup, we sure have a bunch of candy @$$es from the 7th inning on. This is ridiculous. Do we have ONE clutch hitter on this team?
By Iowa Brave
August 23, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this
Unreal. How in the world is this chump change BP locking us down like this? Next thing you know, the Reds will trot out Charlie Kerfeld and he’ll get us 1-2-3
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
The words “Willie Harris” and “fundamental” should be banned from appearing in this blog in the same sentence. Baserunning miscue, can’t get a bunt down, and can’t steal a base to save his life.
Is it a good thing when people have more confidence in the Braves’ pitchers at the plate than the stiffs brought up to pinch hit for them, or that our pitchers are much better bunters than our hitters?
Maybe we should try a few position players in the bully.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
Yates. Send this guy back to the big island.
I remember a time, long, long ago, when there was a flame thrower named Yates who could get everything out.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
Robert,
Find a projection system that is 100 percent accurate. Diamond Mind is generally accurate, overall. Their projections have a small margin for error, generally. When one team under one manager over-performs their projections over a period of nine years, that probably means at the very least that manager isn’t costing that team wins.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
First, we want our best RBI man to bunt (with Andruw on deck)?? Are you kidding me? Then we complain about pinch running for McCann.
You can’t have it both ways guys.
And BC is gone, so who are we going to blame it on?
By Iowa Brave
August 23, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
Atta boy TY. Guess Yates wants to go to Bermuda with me.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
Leadoff single, followup double.
Goodnight folks.
By Steve
August 23, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure it’s very smart to be bunting people with 2 strikes when they’ve been incapable of getting the bunt down the first 2 times. There is no excuse for not being able to bunt, but does it then make sense to bunt with 2 strikes with people who don’t seem to be able to bunt?
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this
Wow, I just cannot believe that we are going to lose 3 out of 4 and 6 out 7 to the friggin’ Reds. This is simply incomprehensible.
We are losing 3 out of 4 in a series where the Reds started Dumatrait, Livingston, a 6-13 Bronson Arroyo, and Elizardo Ramirez.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
As a team, the Padres as a team is hitting .246, the Braves are hitting .278. Why should a big ballpark mean less hits?? Less homers, sure…
And you were asking Robert how in the world Booby could be thought of as a bad manager…you ALWAYS have the lines guarded, I don’t care if the guy rarely hits that way, better to have a single than a double….s**….
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
How many innings did Sarloos throw? The Braves got two hits and a walk off of him in two innings. Yes, they didn’t score, but it’s two innings. How many times do good offensive clubs fail to score in two innings, even against bad pitchers? My guess is quite a bit. Again, Jesus Christ, folks!!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this
1-6 against reds………. is this a joke?
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
A pitchout called???? who else but booby would call that with runners on 2nd and third????
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this
Now we walk the bases loaded? Yates isn’t a lead-pipe cinch to throw strikes, and Keppinger is hot.
By Steve
August 23, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this
I don’t like intentionally walking the bases loaded.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
Loading the bases!?!?! Sheeeesh. Just like to play with fire I guess.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
Overlord,
What does being dumb have to do with laying down a bunt? Could Einstein bunt?
How in the world do you have any idea that it’s Bobby Cox’s fault that three of his players failed to lay down bunts? I guess if we should blame Bobby Cox for Teixeira’s strikeout and we should chalk it up to Teixeira being dumb. Isn’t that about right?
One more time: Jesus Christ, folks!!
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
YATES!!!! Now someone drive in a run already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Todd A
August 23, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
Tyler Yates!!!!!!!
By Ron
August 23, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
Just call him Houdini Yates!!!
By Robert
August 23, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
Shaun - It is Cox’s job to make sure tha Willie Harris can lay down a bunt. Just as it is Cox’s job to know when Willie Harris should be called upon tin bunt
By Iowa Brave
August 23, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
Wow! Raise your hand if you saw that one coming. And if you raised your hand, your lying.
By Supes
August 23, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
Tyler Yates = Heart Attack waiting to happen for any Braves fan!
On the other hand…he very well maybe be HUDINI!
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
Looks like the Reds took some classes at the Atlanta Braves School of Major League Baseball Offense.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
Attaboy Yates! That’s more like it.
3 Blown Saves in that Mets game. Craziness.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
That third strike call for Yates was sweet payback for last night
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
Nice job of getting out of a self made fix, Tyler!
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
Yes!!! Atta Boy Yates!!!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Way to go Tyler………. pumping the arms………… i dont care the jam he got out of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean i do!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 but pumping the arms……………yes……..i have waited months to see that!!!!!!!!
EMOTIONS
By Braves20
August 23, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
Amazing! Yates coming through in a clutch situation! Let’s run him out there next inning and then make him our closer down the stretch.
By btdurden
August 23, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this
The pitchout was for a possible squeeze…
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this
When your best RBI man is 0-4 ( 0 for 5 now) and 1 for his last 13 (14 now), you ask your best RBI man to do whatever it takes to win a game… especially when Andruw’s got the (shudders to even say this) hot hand.
By Braves20
August 23, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this
Excellent at bat by “Napolean Solo.”
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this
Here comes Corky Miller. I would much rather have Corky Miller in extra innings than Brian McCann with his 15 home runs and all. Corky has a funny name. McCann’s name is Brian. That is no fun.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this
Why do our hitters turn into pansy candy-a*******es later in the game against highly mediocre relievers? I just saw Teixera swing through a nothing, pus-filled little slurvey piece of crap from Gosling for strike three.
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this
Ugh. That picture of Corky Miller… A face only a mother could love.
By btdurden
August 23, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this
Give Yates credit for both a heart attack and a gritty escape…little else
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this
\\\BERIGAN//////////,
Ballparks affect average, also. Less homers means less hits. Less hits means a lower average. Homers count as hits, last time I checked.
Also, batting average isn’t the most important offensive stat. Batting average doesn’t take walks or power into account.
Here are the Padres road stats: .258 AVG/.325 OBP/.426 SLG
Home: .233 AVG/.307 OBP/ .369 SLG
Look particularly at the SLG and that explains why the discrepancy in home and road scoring.
So you’re looking at it wrong—batting average is a very weak way to look at offense because it only tells part of the story. Look at runs…and things that lead to runs—hits and walks and total bases*.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this
Shaun… an 8.00 ERA, dude. We had two innings to scratch across one run against a pitcher with an 8.00 ERA. Stat your way around that all ya want, but that’s a let-down.
Robert… it is not Bobby Cox’s job to make sure Willie Harris knows how to lay down a bunt. It’s the job of all the coaches along his way up through the minors to make sure he knows fundamentals like that.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
Robert,
Actually, no it’s not. A manager assumes a player like Willie Harris knows how to lay down a bunt since he’s been playing pro ball for what 10 years. And maybe Willie does. Maybe he just messed up this time.
Bobby Cox is not a grown-up trying to teach little kids how to hold a bat. These are major league players.
Is it Cox’s fault if Teixeira strikes out? I guess so, according to your logic.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this
Wickman vs. Griffey/Phillips/Dunn.
I don’t even need to watch. DAily show is almost on anyway.
By btdurden
August 23, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this
Bravos= 19-26 in extra inning and one-run games combined…. Mets= 23-14…there’s our deficit.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this
Oh God, Wickman…why????? Yates can’t go two??? Once again, Booby putting players in a position to succeed….Wicky never goes 2, so what you gonna do if this goes a few more innings???
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
This game’s got me sweating like Wickman walking uphill.
By The Grinch
August 23, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Berigan, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Why do any of us even bother to show up here—-we’re all wrong. Batting average an indicator of hitting ability…dumb@$$. :-)
Well, it’s been a long day. Let’s wrap this one up, boys.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
Robert,
You still haven’t answered my question:
If Bobby Cox makes a good team into a mediocre when and some managers make mediocre teams into good ones, why don’t managers get paid like the best players in the game? Are you simply smarter than the execs and realize something they don’t—than managers are worth more than they realize? Or are they correct in paying the managers less than players because they actually know what a manager is worth?
Address the issue. This could go a long way toward people changing their opinion of you. If you are really as smart as you think you are, this should be a really easy question.
By Dr. Stats
August 23, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
How many times do good offensive clubs fail to score in two innings, even against bad pitchers? My guess is quite a bit. Again, Jesus Christ, folks!!
The Braves average just about 5 runs per game. Let’s assume that the number of runs per games approximately follows a Poisson distribution with parameter, lambda = 5.0.
The number of runs per inning approximately follows a Poisson distribution with parameter, lambda = 5/9 = 0.555…
The probability of 2 consecutive scoreless innings is then approximately:
exp(-0.555…) x exp(-0.555…)
which equals approximately 0.33.
By Todd A
August 23, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this
If that would have been a double cheeseburger, Wickman would have caught it.
By cricket
August 23, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this
Pitch-out was the right call, freaking baseball re**rds. The batter was Ellison, who can’t hit ANY pitch. That was the right time to call a bunt and finish the game. Also anybody who knows anything about this Reds team would not question walking Hamilton to load the bases. Why don’t you guys try to learn something about baseball instead of just blaming everything on cox, like willie not getting the bunt down?
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this
It’s pretty humorous that Bob Wickman is a big fat piece of garbage…but how many times this season is the fat slob going to have trouble covering first base??? He is a disgrace to all professional athletes.
You know he will be gassed from that short run and will not be able to pitch well now. We have seen it plenty.
By A-ville Ranger
August 23, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
………..GO DAWGS !!
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
Happens all the time. Yeah, it stinks the Braves didn’t score. But it’s nothing out of the ordinary for a good offensive club to not score even against a bad pitcher over the course of two innings. If it happened over five or six innings, yes, it would be disappointing.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 23, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
jjmb, thanks for handling jimmy smith’s light work tonight! “bruce” is not much of an adversary. stinky should change monikers. and now, this team at once has no pitching, then no hitting, then no pitching, then cannot play abc, then does something that makes everyone forget. still our team. hope the braves can pull this one out and go to st. louis and teach some manners.
and, tense. lew seems tense. something to do with coach. both are braves fans. should make up. kumbaya my lord, kumbaya, kumbaya my lord, kumbaya, kumbaya my lord, kumbaya, oh, lord, kumbaya.
and dob, and the passenger pegs … orthodpedic grandmother shoes have funny little heels. be advised. and every biker girl needs a tattoo. suggestions from the bloggers?
so old she won’t buy green bananas. that snap. crackle, pop in the morning isn’t the cereal.
oh, the humanity! braves lose! for shame wicky, for shame.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
That is why Bobby is the dumbest dumb bleep manager alive…..Yates should have been out there…..
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
Hey, Wickman sucked so much I could even watch the end of the game AND catch the Daily Show.
By Apaul404
August 23, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this
Sorry Ron, good lord Bob! 3rd in the wild card.
By geauxbraves2000
August 23, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this
For the 62nd time this season, hey, it’s only one game.
By JJMB
August 23, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
crap. Wickman.
By doctor doctor
August 23, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
The Braves are bleeding. Someone get a tourniquet!
By TURTSNAP
August 23, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
SEASON OVER. BRAVES SUCK!!!!!
By Todd A
August 23, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
Well, that didn’t take long.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
Ladies and Gentleman,
Bob Wickman.
I really can’t kill the guy for it. It was our bone headed offense who couldn’t muster a clutch hit for 5 innings.
Optimists????? Where are you??????
66-62
4 GAMES BACK OF THE WILD CARD
7 GAMES BACK OF THE DIVISION
CLOSED DOOR MEETING TIME.
By A-ville Ranger
August 23, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
If this team could execute they would of shot Wickman by now.
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
For the 76th time, all you Wickman supporters, tell us again how it isn’t important that your closer be able to occasionally miss opposing hitters bats?
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
Un-BULL-eavabull.
Wick gives up the booty like an off the clock A-Town stripper
By TennesseePaul
August 23, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
There it is. There went the season. This game is very similar to that 14 inning NLDS Astro game. Offense just stopped and you knew it was only a matter of time.
So, rebuilding time. Trade Chipper for some AA pitching prospects. Maybe ship Smoltz to Detroit for a few more pitchers and a back up infielder. Renteria to Chicago for some more back up players and minor leaguers. AJ is walking anyway so that spot is clear. We could trade Teixeira back to the Rangers for Harrison and Elvis. I bet we could get some real good talent for McCann and Francoeur. KJ would fetch a lot too. Maybe 4 or 5 rookie ball guys. Hampton could fetch some new bats or something. This should get us on track to win in about 6 years and with good equipment!
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
There you go…didn’t even get my last post to show up. You had to know that as soon as fat disgusting Slob Wickman had to run a little that this game was OVER. For all the failures of the Braves tonight and in this series, you have to figure someone like Chipper Jones must want to smash this fat pig in his face. People like Chipper and Hudson and Smoltz work their butts off to get in shape for the season. Meanwhile, this useless piece of beer league softball garbage comes in to the game and gives it away.
1-6 against the Reds this season. Wild Card, INDEED!!!!!
By Iowa Brave
August 23, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
Once again, this teams inability to score late runs vs any pitchers, but esc. mediocre pitchers, has sunk us. Yes, the team scored 7 runs, but it is built to win on offense. When the innings get late, the bats disappear. Losing 3 or 4 to the Reds, 6 of 7 FOR THE SEASON, is unacceptable. The ship was sailed, and the Braves missed it.
By Braves20
August 23, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
THIS F!!KING SEASON IS OVER. SEE YOU AT DISNEY NEXT MARCH. GET WELL SOON MIKE, WE NEED YOU.
TYLER, WOODY, SCOTTY, LANCE - IT’S BEEN FUN! THANKS TOO FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS REDMAN, DAVIES AND WILSON!
By Steve from OH
August 23, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
Yates should have been out there!? If he doesn’t get some time off soon, his arm will fall off. He’s definitely our most overused bullpen arm.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
I’m done here for the evening. Where are the smart folks on the blog? TennPaul? Others? I know you are smarter than folks like Robert. I can’t believe this? Do folks really believe what they write on here? Is it because you disagree with some things I write that you have to dispute facts I post? Are you just trying to stir things up?
How can folks even dispute things like the Padres’ home park has made their offense worse than they are. It’s there for all to see that that is a fact. If you just look at it a little bit, you can see that it’s a fact.
And don’t get me started on Bobby Cox. It’s disappointing that there are a few folks this arrogant and ignorant about some things.
All I can say is wow!
By A Jones 25
August 23, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
Have y’all noticed every time big fat Wick has to sprint to first he comes back to the mound and loses it.
By N8
August 23, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
Wow. Wickman can’t get the job done on the road. BIG SHOCK. He better hope DOB doesn’t write about it, because that would be rude.
Wick’s a JOKE.
This pitching staff in gerneral is a JOKE.
But worse than that, this team is a mediocre bunch of guys that might want to win, but they haven’t a clue on HOW to win.
Glad we sold the farm for THIS. In two years when Tex is gone, and Salty, Harrison and Andrus are helping Texas, we can at least look back on this incredible stretch run that we had, huh?
JS did the right thing. He took a shot. One can’t blame him for that. Unless you were one of us that thought this team was out of it in June, then even when the trade was made, it seemed like too little, too late.
Go Braves in 2010. That’s gonna be the soonest this team makes the post season. But if I was an NBA ref, I would put my money on 2013.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
Hey Shaun,
Only 1 loss right. They are all the same.
Thats the back breaker.
1-6 against Cincy???
4 games out in the loss for the WC.
66-62.
I would sign for 20-14 at this point and hope every other team f*** up.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
The Padres have hit 119 HR’s the Braves 140. Does that explain their .31 point discrepancy in BA then??? The braves have driven in (I assume before today’s game) 620 runs. Padres 525. 267 doubles by the braves, 247 doubles by the Padres. 27 triples by Padres, 26 triples by the braves. So, why oh why did the braves score almost 100 more runs than the Padres??? Couldn’t have anything to do with hitting 31 points higher could it????
Honest, B.A. really does account for something….
Thanks for going off on this tangent though, nice to have something to take my mind off this terrible game! ;)
By btdurden
August 23, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
so make that Mets 8 over .500 in one-run and xtra’s and Bravos 8 UNDER! This season’s summary
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
August 23, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this
Punch in the mouth and bloody nose. Thanks for playing.
See you in St. Louis.
By A-ville Ranger
August 23, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this
Yea,yea the pen is over used and the 3 thru 5 starters…don’t get ME started. Still this game went 12 innings and like many others it could have been won if this team could score clutch runs….they can’t.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this
Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.
I trust the trio of trouble are on board for their nightly ranting. (BD, uga, A-ville??? you guys may begin)
Berigan You should know by now that the Braves rarely let a reliever go more than one inning.
By Bruce Vilanch
August 23, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this
Clearly, jimmy smith is a paranoid delusional who believes that everyone who fails to find him amusing is “Stinky”.
Perhaps Stinky is to Smith as Hyde was to Jekyll. One and the same?
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this
Nauseating.
I’m just trying - trying - as a die-hard Braves’ fan, to see what those who believe this team will make the playoffs see in this team.
Because all I see is a team under .500 since their 7-1 start, and under .500 since acquiring Teixeira.
34 games left.
7 behind 1st in the loss column
4 behind the wild card leader in the loss column
1-6 against the fifth-place Cincinatti Reds.
We look anything but playoff-bound, and I don’t see anything on the horizon that changes that.
I am more and more impressed with Manny Acosta, though, and I am pleased to see Rafael Soriano looking good again. Was very impressed with Tyler Yates’ and his moxy tonight, too. Was actually pleased to see Carlyle left in the damned game a few innings, despite his troubles, too.
But it’s a different everyday player lettting us down, it seems. McCann left 3 men on; Francoeur 4. Tonight Andruw gts 3 hits (only the fourth game all year he’s done that) and nobody’s on-base in front of him because Mac and Frenchy didn’t produce.
I’m telling ya, you can blame it on management or you can blame it on pitching or you can blame it on the bullpen all ya want, but this team is jinxed here lately. Nothing we do right nets us a key win, and everything that can go wrong usually does in a tight game.
This organization used to have a swagger; they knew they would win when they took the field. I can’t help but think that there is no swagger with this team anymore.
Somebody (Chipper, Smoltzie?) needs to light a fire under these kids and get them to stop pressing. Somebody needs to sit Cox down and tell him Wickman’s no longer closer-worthy. Hell, I dunno who is anymore with this bunch, but Wickman surely isn’t. Moylan? Just as soon as we like his stuff, he goes into a slump. We thought Soriano was the it guy, earlier, too, and he hit the skids. Maybe he’s back. Who knows. When Soriano struggled, there was that brief glimmer of hope that maybe it was Tyler Yates who’d grow into the role. Disastruous stretch for him soon followed.
It’s perplexing. It has to be for the manager, too. There’s no way to really manage around all this stuff; truly, I’ve questioned some things he’s done, but hell, who else was supposed to pitch the last inning for us? We’d just about exhausted every arm we had.
It’s just perplexing. I’m going with “we’re jinxed.”
Call Ted and ask him where he stashed Chief Knock-A-Homa’s teepee. We need it up in the left field bleachers ASAP.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this
How many different managers have come and gone since Bobby Cox took over the reigns as Braves manager. Now, JS is no dummy. Why do you think he keeps the man? Cause he is one of the best at what he does.
Like his style or not, he is the manager, the choice of the front office. Is he perfect, heck no. Again, how many skippers have come and gone since BC took over. That tells me a lot. (so go ahead a rant and rave, it doesn’t matter, as the Braves are not worried about what a few bloggers on AJC think about their managerial choice.) Nite all!
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
Robert,
You go way overboard in your hatred of Bobby(Yes you hate him, even though you don’t say you hate him ;)
But, you are right, we will never win again until he rides into the sunset….
Bob Wickman gave up only one home run last year for the Cleveland Indians. Guess who hit that home run??? (Well, grand slam) And guess where he hit it??? Booby just puts players in a position to succeed….
By Ron
August 23, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
You know what guys, I dont know what to say anymore!!! I really really dont!!! I dont know anything about this team now!!! I said we Had to win 3 out of 4 against them and instead WE LOSE 3 out of 4!!! We cant even get damn bunts down!!! Wickman threw a pitch right down the middle to Dunn!!! And I said to myself that we need to win it BEFORE Dunn has a chance to come back to the plate!!! Something told me he was gonna do something, And he did!!! There is really nothing MORE you can say about this team!!! I aint even worried about the Wildcard anymore!!! For NOW on I am just gonna hope we win games, and NOT worry about the damn Wildcard!!! Lets just win games, thats ALL you can say!!! Not given up, but man, this is brutal!!! Never have I seen a team with THIS much talent and lose like this!!! NEVER!!! Unbelievable!!!
By Dwight Fry
August 23, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
Hey Carroll - have fun interviewing Wickman.
By Savannah Guy
August 23, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
Oops…I see that the sky is falling and it’s the end of the world as we know it.
Must have accidentally gone to the AJC Sports Vent site. Carry on…
By daxxed
August 23, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
This team will not even win 4 on the road this trip…1-7 against the Reds…2 of them could have been runs, if BC would teach his team how to bunt in winning runs….but that is not his way of playing and that is why the Braves only have 1 World Series win while others have more….
By ijonathan
August 23, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
Carroll Back to the topic of the blog, when exactly will the braves improve enough to play .500?
And what is our record now since the Tex trade?
By supa
August 23, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
I guess we know now how Mets fans felt after choking down the stretch for so many years.
I can’t remember the last time the Braves had a closed door meeting, but it seems that one may be in order. C’mon Chipper/Smoltz/Huddy - pull the team together!
By MEB
August 23, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this
I ain’t giving up! Still ain’t as bad as last year and I do believe we can snag the wild card.
GO BRAVES!!!
By Apaul404
August 23, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this
And the sad thing about the wild card is that the Braves own the Padres, Dodgers and I like our chances against the Phillies. But the Reds, Nationals and various other crappy thems find a way to step on our facss with hobnail boots. I’m about ready for football season. Go Dawgs err Braves!
By SR
August 23, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this
RIP 2007 Atlanta Braves
I’ll leave it at this because I cannot stomach this pathetic bunch anymore this season. When you write the epitath for these losers, all you have to say is this: They lost 6 of 7 to the stinking last place (almost) Cincinnati Reds.
“Nuff said.
By Absolute
August 23, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this
Please….get rid of Wickman! He is no closer! Is he on the Met’s payroll?
By Jason
August 23, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
No one gets less out of more than Bobby Cox. He has been given all the tools to succeed. Wasted talent and poor judgment are his legacy.
By fastasballs
August 23, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
LOL, it’s about all you can do watching this train wreck of a team night after night. I’m sure one of the sheep will come along and tell us critisism of the Braves is not what real fans do or we’re still in it, whatever.
This series & the last one against the Reds has a been a microcasm of the entire year & why this team can’t get it done.
Carlyle stinks (tonight), so the offense kicks it in gear, chases down & ties the score not once, but twice. The bullpen comes in and basically shuts down a decent offense in a hitters paradise, but then the offense can do absolutely nothing. Last night Cormier was good, but the offense does nothing.
We all have watched this team fail to bunt guys over all year long. Either this is the worst bunch of bunters in the history of the game or bunting is not practiced or preached so failure will normally follow as it has over & over.
Past Braves teams didn’t have continuous problems getting down bunts or runner in from 3rd with less than two out. The coaching & management of this team has gone down the toliet. I don’t care if they are major league hitters or not, bunting is not on their minds in BP unless it’s forced. If it’s practiced it will be executed more times than not, because they are major league hitters.
The Mets, Phillies, Brewers, Cubs, Padres, Dodgers, & most all other NL teams can execute basic fundamentals of the game better than this team. This team is flat loaded with talent, but if this was a middle of the pack offense we would be in last place right now because of pitching & execution.
By RDL
August 23, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this
I have no idea how Wickman ever got to this level of baseball and what a crime it is that he gets paid millions to drag his pathetic self to the mound…He should never get the call again, give him his unconditional release…
By Todd A
August 23, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this
Exactly right, N8. This team has forgotten how to win.When they get good pitching, they can’t score.When they hit, they get shoddy starting pitching. When their pen is lights out, they can’t get a freakin’ clutch hit.When they do get the scarce clutch hit, their pen implodes.Not to mention, they always seem to make a crucial error late in a game that always comes back to haunt them.
By A-ville Ranger
August 23, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah ‘YOU MAY BEGIN’ such a pretentious little blow hard….. night all, even you little guy.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this
Talent wise we are better, but guys, the pitching isn’t very good. Is the bullpen tired? Yes. Soriano, Yates, Moylan, and Acosta have great arms, but the lack of innings we get from our #3, 4, 5 guys kills them.
JS has tons of work to do this offseason. I am scared for the future beyond 2008. I am scared s**.
By Wolfpack Man
August 23, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this
As positive as I have tried to stay throughout all of the inconsistent play, I think it is time to admit that the Braves are not a playoff team. Even with the watered down NL, the Braves are just flat-out not good enough to play consistent enough to qualify for the postseason.
Yes they have some great players and some amazing strengths, but they have way too many flaws in their starting rotation to overcome.
I think the future is bright in Atlanta, but the immediate (2007) future, I am afraid is pretty grim, and that is a shame because this team is ultra talented in a lot of areas.
A starting rotation with just two starters can make a roster look a lot weaker then it is. How much better would the Braves bullpen be with decent starters 1-5?
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I guess the nightly ranting should not start after that game??? After losing 6 ouf 7 to the Reds for the season??? No ranting, right??? Let’s look at the positives, right?? The Mets and the Phillies lost. Wooooo hooooooooo. Too bad the Braves cannot take advantage of any of it. What would the situation be right now if the Braves had swept this nauseating collection of trash that the Red call a starting staff…Dumatrait, Livingston, Arroyo, and Ramirez???? Where would the Braves be right now??? 3 games behind the Mets and tied for the Wild Card….that would be no time to rant. THIS IS THE TIME TO RANT.
I said before this stretch of games against SF, AZ, CINCY, STL, and FLA that this team needed to go 13-3 to take control of their destiny. They are now 4-6 with 6 games remaining. It is done and dusted, just like you criticized me for saying last night.
By monty
August 23, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this
What a failure at a golden opportunity! WHat a dysfunctional team. Total discombobalation.Such inability to seize the day.Get down, fight back, get back down,come back again, then they can’t even get a bunt down! Theres your CF for next year everyone is crying for. LOsing record in one run games and extra inning games, losing record against sub-.500 teams. THat about sums it up. Let’s chat again next season. Peace!
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
Ron You summed it up well.
Ron Roberts Jinxed is a good word for this.
MEB While I am discouraged, I too will hang in there, until we are mathematically eliminated.
Savannah Tough place to stay with our team stinking it up, and every yahoo out there telling us what a “donk” our manager is and how we have a mediocre team.
I admit, we are playing lousy. We might not, heck, probably won’t make the playoffs unless we can get the mojo going. Sometimes, you are just jinxed as, RR stated.
Tomorrows another day. It is not time yet to say we “have to win” this one or that one, but that day is getting closer.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 23, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
It’s true, we rarely let a reliever go 2, but Soriano did! Why not Yates??? If for no other reason than neither team was scoring, and the game could go on a few more innings…
I am just so very PO’ed because we were seeing real emotion from this team! Prado was excited by his hit. Nothing happened. Acosta is an emotional player, seems to have to keep it in check a bit, but still shows more than most of the team. Yates was really pumped up!!! But, we still lost.
I know 10Paul is kidding about blowing up the team, but he dead on about this game. The Reds played it like they were in the playoffs against the Braves…and how many times have we seen a braves team simply incapable of scoring one bleeping run while we go into extra innings??? That is one thing I can’t really blame Cox for. But, no matter who is on the team, this happens. I thought Tex would help change things, and he has been a total stud since coming here, but he hasn’t gotten those close and late hits yet….
Some people wonder why Reggie Jackson was so great, his average was Andrew Jones like his whole career, didn’t always drive in a 100 runs a season…but, the last guy in the world you wanted to see up against your team in the late innings…..
By Savannah Guy
August 23, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this
Clearly, Bruce is trying to pick a fight with Jimmy. But Bruce must beware…Journalist will allow Bruce to defeat himself with his own negative energy. Jimmy has already won. Read his posts, then yours Bruce. See? Ju jitsu stuff. With Jimmy, you think, smile and chuckle. With Bruce, you cringe. Bruce cannot judge art. Art judges Bruce. And Bruce is not an artist.
Shaun was up late. Shaun complained that there were no jousters fitting the blunt lance pole that he carries. Shaun will one day read more of the blog and learn of other knights, other horses and other games for them. But he must first read words as well as numbers. Shaun will then be a formidable knight.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this
The Braves are 42-50 since their 24-12 start to the season. And to think that we have all been deluding ourselves into thinking that this is a playoff team. Playoff teams do not play .456 baseball for more than three months.
By Supes
August 23, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this
Wickman has been just plain bad on the road this entire season!
This team is in need of a closed door meeting where Chipper and Smoltzie speak to the rest.
How much lower can this “ship” sink?
It’s going to be another one of these…SS had it on their game yesterday…where you had 2 wins in the Smoltz/Hudson games, followed by 3 loses, followed by 2 wins by Smoltz/Hudson again…followed by…well you GUESSED IT…3 more losses!
Starting pitching staff needs be revamped in the off-season. I hope Mike Hampton can contribute, but just in case he can’t…BRAVES have to get 2 quality starters with a proven track record of eating up innings. Nobody with less than 200IP!
Time to plan for the future, if they find themselves 5 out of the Wild Card by the september callups, let the kids play! Can’t get any worse, can it???
By N8
August 23, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this
You guys and your “closed door meetings”.
Biggest joke, most OVERRATED thing in the history of sports, IMO.
Unless when the Braves players return from the meeting and walk through the previously closed door with 3 new starters and a handful of new reliable arms for the pen, along with ANYBODY that can lay down a damn bunt without fouling out, the meeting would be a waste of everybody’s time.
This team needs a good old fashion house cleaning project. Take out the trash, and replace it with anything. Even other trash. Just don’t keep running the same worthless losers out to the mound night after night.
I can’t wait for the post-game quotes from Bobby saying how “on” Wickman was and he just couldn’t “catch any breaks”.
He acts as though the Braves fan base is made up of Ronnie Milsap, Stevie Wonder and Eric Gregg.
By Dwight Fry
August 23, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this
When an organization fails to perform up to expectations, management is responsible.
The Braves are not performing up to expectations and Bobby Cox must accept responsibility for that.
He may be well-liked by his players but that is not necessarily the most important criterion for success.
Time for a change.
By Chris
August 23, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this
Folks, the Braves just aren’t that good this year. We’ve had breakout seasons from Chipper, Renteria, KJ, Willie, Francouer, Hudson and all we have to show for it is third in the division and wildcard. This team just doesn’t have it, no fault of there own. People need to realize just because this team wears the same jersey as the ones from the streak they aren’t the same team. Hopefully they can reclaim it next year.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to trade anymore prospects. We already traded 5 of them. It is time to find solutions internally, if they aren’t there, then do a better job developing minor league pitching talent. It starts there.
By Eric C.
August 23, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves have just about hit bottom…it’s all up from here. I hope.
It seems like the Braves offense goes in the tank in extra-innings…what is up with that?
Another loss when scoring 7 runs (2 in this series)…remember when 7 runs was a virtually automatic W?.
As bad as this loss stings…the wild card is still there…and the Braves have a lnog winning streak or two coming to them in the next few weeks.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
Shaun - If Cox cant affect the team one way or another as far as winning games, and if he can never be held accountable in any way for anything the team does -
Then what exactly is he so darn good at, by your reckoning?
By Gayle Abbott
August 23, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this
I hate to say I told you so (actually, I really don’t hate saying it, but you are supposed to show some humility when your prediction is validated)but I said here in April that this was a .500 team who would be fighting with Washington and Florida to stay out of the NL East cellar.
Yes, there is talent here. No doubt of that. But this team will not win again and be successful in the post season until they clean house. One more year, BC and JS will retire and we can start over.
By Savannah Guy
August 23, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this
Wayne Yep…it’s getting pretty ugly all around. It’s tough to watch these losses now but…maybe I’m just getting jaded or have just watched baseball long enough to know that teams get snakebit. Hope we pull out but maybe we won’t. I’ll be there either way. And fans rant…hell, I’ve ranted. Just not incessantly. Always seemed to get over it within a reasonable amount of minutes…not hours or days as some.
Either way, dissection and fretting after the fact does zero good for game outcomes. How many times and ways can the same thing be said? That’s a question for a sports fan statistician or psychologist I suppose.
So, how are things in the great state of Utah?
By N8
August 24, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this
“The Braves are not performing up to expectations and Bobby Cox must accept responsibility for that. He may be well-liked by his players but that is not necessarily the most important criterion for success.”
Amen. I had a buddy growing up that had a set of parents that everybody “liked” and thought were the best because he was allowed to have parties and stay out all night, and was NEVER held accountable for his actions.
Yup. They were the favorite parents alright. Only problem is none of the other parents in the neigborhood accused them of being good at it.
Maybe it’s just like Robert said earlier in the year. The players all love playing for Bobby because you have to literally die to lose your roster spot, and his “peers” rate him the best in a HUGE conspiracy to keep him in a Braves uniform, because they know that anybody NOT named Mike Hargrove can out-maneuver him in a battle of wits.
Kind of like the team that just hit 6 HR’s off another pitcher voting him the “best pitcher in baseball”.
Football is 2 weeks away. This team is going NOWHERE. I’m sure I’ll pop back in to b!tch after tomorrow’s loss. For now, Seacrest…OUT!
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 24, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this
I take it from the choler of the blog that the Braves have lost…again!…
TheJackAss in concurrence with a fellow who calls himself Richard Cory, called it prior to the commencement of the regular season…”Braves no better than third, possibly second place in the East…Wild Card a more realistic possibility“…
TheJackAss’ primary reason for this undesirable prediction was attributed to a flaccid Braves pitching rotation…which also adversely effects the bullpen…then just recently, TheJackAss posted an opinion which incorporated just a single word…Pitching!…consequently, one of the fanatical Mets advocates, who oft encroaches upon the MIB blog, offered his 2 cents worth on the subject, in his usual saturnine manner, by making fun of TheJackAss’ abstruse cognitive abilities for merely posting a simplistic notion such as pitching!…but I venture to say that the Braves would have attained extraordinary success had they acquired one additional quality pitcher before the onset of the ‘07 season…not sure what the reasons, nor the excuses were for not doing so…Schuerholz wasted enough money this year on bums, that had he not done so, and had he made better decisions early on, the Braves would have been able to obtain, at the least, that one additional quality pitcher…
So allow TheJackAss to delve a bit deeper into the subject…Pitching stupid!!…
By fastasballs
August 24, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this
**I can’t wait for the post-game quotes from Bobby saying how “on” Wickman was and he just couldn’t “catch any breaks”.
He acts as though the Braves fan base is made up of Ronnie Milsap, Stevie Wonder and Eric Gregg.**
That’s classic N8, I needed a good laugh after this series/season.
By Todd A
August 24, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this
I think Shaun is really Chris Dimino.
By Señor Mosca
August 24, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this
Déjenos esperar que los cantantes aclamados consigan el premio estimado y la ciudad de permiso antes de que sus quince minutos de la fama sean drenados y usurpados por el nunca final televison promociones de los cortes de relaciones públicas. Me pongo cansado de la canción. Se hace viejo rápido. Bueno aproximadamente tres veces, entonces nunca más.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this
Berrigan - I hate what he has done to the Braves. I’d actually love to have a beer with him. And I’d tell him,”You know, Bobby, you’re a good ole boy, but man are you one stupid son of oa b***”
By A Jones 25
August 24, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this
I’m surprised no one mentioned the biggest play of the game. Carlyle has the guy picked off and he doesn’t know what to do. Inexcusable! Next pitch…..3 run homer…no win.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this
“Robert… it is not Bobby Cox’s job to make sure Willie Harris knows how to lay down a bunt. It’s the job of all the coaches along his way up through the minors to make sure he knows fundamentals like that.”
And if that didnt happen - then it’s Cox’s job to either
1.Teach him, or 2.Make sure that he gets taught, or 3.Make sure he isnt in the game when a bunt is required, and also, to 4.See what he can have done about coaches not properly teaching fundamentals, both on the Braves, and lower down in the farm system
Ultimately, the preparedness of the team
By gotigers72
August 24, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this
Well, 3 games back in the Wild Card, 6 back in the division. The fat lady is warming up her voice. Lost 6 of 7 to one of the worst teams in the NL.
Willie Harris is truly pathetic at fundamentals, and his BA just keeps going down.
I don’t understand why in hell the Braves won’t send Thorman down. It really hurts the team to have to use him as a pinch hitter. I know he’s out of options, but who in the world would claim him? And if somebody did, they would be doing the Braves a favor. Cut your losses and let him go. Thinking he could take LaRoche’s place is one of the worst mistakes in judgment the Braves have ever made. I mean, I didn’t expect him to be as good as Rochy, but to be as putrid as he has been? Didn’t expect that either. I was praying he would strike out tonight so the Reds could only get 1 out, but no, he hits that lame crap back to the pitcher for a double play.
Buddy Carlyle is history. Made that s**t for brains play where he didn’t get anybody out, then throws a home run ball on the next pitch. He’s had it, he’s done. The league has him figured out. He hasn’t pitched even a decent game in over a month. He is finally being shown for the journeyman/ragarm that he is. Just took him a little longer than it did Mark Redman. The only good thing about tonight’s game for Buddy; he didn’t give up a 500 footer to the opposing pitcher.
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this
Savannah Actually, things are OK. Not great, not terrible, OK.
You are right. If you look at the individual pieces, they add up to an OK team, on the fringe of playoff contention, which is about where we are.
I can tell when a team is just not hitting on all cylinders, and this one does, but not nearly enough. Like RR said, jinxed, maybe. I think the overworked pen is part of the problem. Batters are hitting well, but sometimes 7 runs are not enough.
What I tire of most is the incessant complaining. I really LOVE baseball, and I LOVE the Braves. Went to my first game in 1966.
So, last winter I find this really cool blog that lets me share my thoughts about the Braves with everyone else who loves them as much as I do. Then, the season doesn’t quite match up to expectations, and then the “other” fans come out of the woodwork. They drive me frickin nuts sometimes, with their constant complaining about every little thing that goes wrong.
Many of them have a decent knowledge of the game, then they get so emotional over every game, every inning, every at bat, every pitch. I look at things in a bit of a larger picture, so if we don’t win today, maybe we will do better tomorrow.
If we don’t get to the playoffs, then it’s wait till the hot stove league, and lets see how it can be fixed for next year. Remember, I was here during the 80’s.
There are SOOO many teams out there with lots of talent, that don’t play up to their potential. Is it the players fault, or the management’s fault? Sometimes it’s nobody’s fault. It is just the way things are. Why does Cincy get up for the Braves? And please, don’t tell me that the Braves “dumb down” for Cincy. I am not buying that argument when we score 30 runs in 4 games.
We have some serious holes on our team, but with a bit of luck or whatever you want to call it, things could have been different.
I don’t mind the occasional rant from a fan. But some of these guys seem to cherish the opportunity, even seem to enjoy it.
It makes me wish there were another blog for those of us that don’t want to hear their slant.
This time, the naysayers (for lack of a better term) will probably prevail. BUT, luck could have turned it the other way. If we make the playoffs, they will complain if we don’t get to the second round. If we get to the second round, they will complain if we don’t win it all. If we win it all, I dare say they would say, well, Bobby had nothing to do with that.
See my frustration. For you guys I am talking of, please don’t take this personal, as I suspect you mean well. I just get tired of your perspective. And you know what, I can tolerate even Robert, but after about 10,000 times, I don’t need to hear what an idiot BC is anymore. Point made. Move on.
Maybe you guys feel the same way about me. If that is the case, then that indeed is a sad commentary, as I have always in my life aspired to remain positive, and to look on the bright side of things. If you are tired of or do not appreciate that sentiment, then it is a sad day for sure.
So, my friend, Savannah that is the way it is in Utah tonight. Frustrated, but trying to keep a positive outlook.
sorry so long……….
By Robert
August 24, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this
“If Bobby Cox makes a good team into a mediocre when and some managers make mediocre teams into good ones, why don’t managers get paid like the best players in the game?”
There’s a lot of people, in the game, and not inside the game, who could manage a team with at least neutral effect.
There’s a lot more people that could manage a team without ill effect than can turn on a fastball
Supply and demand
Now the few guys who really excel? They suffer cuz there’s no precedent, and no market pressure to pay them big
If I ran a team, I’d be willing to pay Cox $1 million a year just to have no contact whatsoever at any time, on or off the field, with any of my organization’s players, coaches, or administrators
By Braves Fan 79
August 24, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this
DAMNIT BOBBY! when are you gonna realize that Wickman SUCKS on the road! Kinda like how u didnt realize that woodcrap/orr wasnt getting the job done earlier in the year….and kinda like how u let a .215 hitter hit cleanup basicially ALL season! This makes me sick because they Braves are EASILY better than sandiego and the phillies! We SHOULD be the wildcard winners….but man weve all said should alot on here this season. Only to be once again fustrated. 3 out of 4 to the REDS!?? UNACCEPTABLE!!
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this
The Braves are 28-26 against 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th place teams this season. That includes a combined 9-3 against the Pirates and Rockies. That makes the Braves 19-23 against the Nationals, Marlins, Reds, Astros, Giants, and Twins. There is your playoff spot right there.
In addition, the Braves are 50-53 since May 1. Here is that compares to some other teams that we believe the Braves are much better than: the Rockies are 54-47, the Nationals are 49-53, the Cardinals are 51-49. Are the pitching staffs of the Nats, Cards, and Rockies better than the Braves pitching staff? Someone could make that argument.
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this
gotigers
Gotta tell ya, I agree with most of what you say, except the part about nobody wanting Scott Thorman. If that were the case, they would have sent him down long ago.
I admit, he is lost at the plate right now, but the kid has 10 HR’s this year. He does have some potential. Just needs some more seasoning. Or, maybe he will never amount to anything. A lot like Wes Helms was. Decent, but not consistent. Wes has worked out a decent career as a journey man player. Scott Thorman has the ability to do as well, if not better.
Buddy sure blew that pickoff move tonight!
By N8
August 24, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this
fastasballs
I’m glad SOMEBODY enjoyed that one. I actually couldn’t think of another blind musician (I just thought of Jeff Healy), so Eric Gregg was a guy that most Braves fans could relate to being blind.
As far as Bobby saying stuff like that, I get that he doesn’t wanna throw a player under the bus, and more often than not, he’s just saying that stuff so his players don’t lose confidence, or think he has lost confidence in them.
But it is so maddening to hear him say crap like that. For just ONE DAY, I would like Steinbrenner to be our owner. Not so he would spend money on the team, but so I could get entertained by what he would say about our players if they were on his payroll, to the local papers.
Can you imagine what he’d be saying about Andruw this year? WOW. It would be rough.
Either way this team has been “interesting” to watch this year. Lot’s of good (Francoeur, Renteria, Hudson, Escobar, KJ, Chipper, Smoltz and Tex), to go with the bad (Redman, Davies, Thorman along with key injuries to Hampton, and Gonzo).
Sadly enough, this team is not that far away from being real good. They only need a couple of more arms. Unfortunately those arms aren’t gonna be found in the middle of August, while fading down the stretch. But the core of this team is strong, and the youngsters are learning on the job.
I guess that’s what makes it so hard to watch. If they stunk like the late 80’s teams, you just laugh and shrug it off. But 2/5 of the rotation is GREAT. One more good/great starter changes this whole season (Imagine if Glavine and his 11-6 record, 4.12 ERA is signed instead of Redman, Sturtze, Wilson, Woodward, not to mention the “swing” in the standings of those numbers not only coming to us, but being taken from the Mets! We might not have NEEDED to trade for Tex). The lineup is deadly. The defense is above average (though it’s been sloppy lately), and the bullpen looks like it has a few young, promising arms to look forward to having bigger roles next year (or in the case of Wickman…rolls).
It’s all relative, I guess. We might be much better next year. But so might the Mets, Phillies and even the Marlins. Not to mention, I expect the Nats to try and make a splash in free agency/trades as they look to build fan base and a better team before moving into their new digs.
So even though we might be better next year, we still might be a few years away from dominating the division again.
Oh well.
By Coach (PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS)
August 24, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this
So many happy campers tonight , lol. Just to fan the flames , I’ll throw some more stats out there for ya’ll to chew on. Since July 1st the Braves have played 47 games and went 23-24 , slightly under .500 , but here is the real kicker : Smoltz/Hudson are 10-2 with a 3.00 ERA and have 11 quality starts in their 17 games. The rest of the rotation since July 1st : 8-10 with a 6.47 ERA and they have 7 quality starts out of 29. The team is 12-5 when Smoltz/Hudson start (.705) and 11-19 (.366) with the rest of the warm bodies on the mound. Pretty obvious isn’t it ? But , can it be fixed….. YES IT CAN , You just have to think outside the box. How to turn a .500 team into a .600 team ? It can be done , you just have to use the old noodle and think. I know exactly how to do it.
By Braves Fan 79
August 24, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this
I cant believe in the offseason we dissed Glavine and tried to depend on Hamptons sorry a$$$… and then while talking about how we didnt have any $$ we give almost 7 mill to woodcrap, wilson, and stuartz.
Gotta love how a .350 hitter coming out of spring training gets put in AAA while woodcrap and orr hit .200 for 3 or so months. I told everyone earlier….us NOT BRINGING ESCOBAR UP EARLIER IN THE YEAR KILLED US …especially after chipper got hurt.
Go Braves….sigh…
By AZBravoFan
August 24, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this
Unfortunately I fear we will soon see the trickle-down effect of all this bad starting pitching. We’ve obviously already seen it in the bullpen. But soon we’re going to start seeing Smoltz, realizing every one of his starts is a must-win, start over-extending himself. Going one inning too long, just like last year. And he will either start blowing games in the late innings himself, or he’ll just burn out his arm again and not be useful down the stretch. If 7 runs ain’t enough to win a game, even in Cincy, then see ya next year folks.
By N8
August 24, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this
gotigers72
“Thinking he could take LaRoche’s place is one of the worst mistakes in judgment the Braves have ever made. I mean, I didn’t expect him to be as good as Rochy, but to be as putrid as he has been? Didn’t expect that either.”
I feel your pain, and have often spewed some venom in the direction of Thorman this year. However, NOBODY expected Thorman to “take LaRoche’s place”. I remember DOB saying the Braves would be happy with 17-20 HR and around 70 RBI. Well, even as crappy of a year as he’s had, had he played everyday, he’d be close to those numbers.
What makes his numbers stand out as unacceptable, are Andruw’s numbers. When LaRoche was traded it was under two assumptions, IMO, by JS.
1) That our bullpen sucked and adding Gonzalez (along with Soriano) would negate the loss of LaRoche.
2) That as long as AJ had a huge year, and the bullpen was improved, the team could survive with Thorman hitting 7th or 8th.
I’m more of the thought that would blame Andruw (and his 13 million dollar salary) as opposed to blaming the rookie being a full-time starter for the first time.
So, as I’ve said many times, the bigger mistake than letting Thorman “replace” LaRoche, was NOT trading Andruw before he became a 10/5 guy.
Thorman, IMO, deserves to struggle in his first full season without being ripped for it.
Having said all of that, you are right. I know JS has a team to run, and Thorman probably has too much promise to just “lose” him by trying to squeeze him through waivers. But he (JS) can’t have it both ways.
Are we looking to the future? Or trying to win NOW? Because keeping Thorman on the 25 man roster is NOT helping us win now.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this
Wayne, here is the problem. You have every right to be positive. And no one will criticize you for that, at least I know that I won’t. I read your posts and I think it is good to have a positive outlook, but I also think to myself that you are not watching what is going on with this team. Every fan wants their team to win, but you seem to be satisfied if they just run on the field and off the field and could care less what happens in between.
Now for the difference…I don’t read your positive posts and then tell you to shut up. I don’t complain about you incessantly. I don’t single you out for criticism regularly. I don’t tell you that you are not a true fan because you don’t mind when the Braves lose. I let you post your feelings with freedom. I could care less if you are positive, negative, or neutral. Unfortunately, you seem to think that you have every right to judge every blogger who doesn’t agree with your viewpoint. Get over yourself. We all have the right to post here. We do not have to conform to your desires. Stop jumping on everyone that you don’t agree with at every opportunity.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 24, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this
Wayne,
I love baseball too, just hard to get all warm and fuzzy about the Braves right now. In fact a team that averages out a loss every other game, well…what do you expect? Positive talk??? Go 6-1 in the next seven games, and people will shut up about Bobby, Wicky, etc…winning cures everything.
I watch baseball tonight to get my fix of winning baseball…good thing!!
Goodnight and lets somehow win the series against the Cards! We are a better team than they are….
By Robert
August 24, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this
“Never have I seen a team with THIS much talent and lose like this!!! NEVER!!! Unbelievable!!!”
But it cant possibly be that the manager is a d******* can it?
Oh Ron. Your denial is killing you.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 1:10 AM | Link to this
Efrim-We optimists are sitting here waiting for Coach to go tell John Schuerholz how easy it is to find the pitching that will make the Braves play .600 baseball. I sure wish Coach would hurry up and go do that. It’s past time and apparently Coach is the only one who knows. He told us so earlier and we know Coach is always right. He told us that earlier, too. He’d better do it quick, though. Much more of this kind pitching and even I’ll turn into a doom and gloomer pretty soon. I’m just glad that the Braves don’t have to pitch in that Little League ballpark anymore this year. I’m not real sure how anyone can pitch there. It makes Coors Field look like a pitcher’s park.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
just got back from CHOPS about six of us sat there til the end of the game. one of the last places in the ATL. where you can eat a great steak and and smoke. our in house laywer just decided we should patend pend the braves. they discover a new way to lose every night.
for me no more being angry they just aint worth it. individualy a lot of great players but collectively not so much.
anyone that calls out HOSS is an idiot. anyone that calls out ANDRUW CAN JOIN THEM. they show up every night. any person that thinks the reason we are not goin to make the playoffs is #25’S fault should go play with LEGOS.
LOOK THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM IS THE 10 THAT SURROUNDS THE 25.
By Carroll Rogers
August 24, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this
i can see why the questions about thorman pinch hitting in the sixth. bobby’s usual MO is to save the big gun (matt diaz) for later. the weakness of the bench is showing up big time. september call-ups can’t come soon enuf for the bench.
don’t see a closed door team meeting. chipper did say some real direct things tonight to us in the media anyway. the exact quote is in my gamer but it’s something about how frustrating it is when ‘we cant’ get a bunt down, can”t cover first.” ….and it is, isn’t it? all the absolute little things that are killing them. buddy’s pickoff play A No. 1.
nope i guess the way things have gone the last three days .500 is overachieving.
i’ll try to remember to ask about the radar gun, jonathan. and wickman wasn’t as bad as he could have been. good point on the adam dunn grand slam last june off wickman. somebody’s got somebody’s number.
best news of the night, leaving cincy in the morning. off to pack.
By N8
August 24, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this
*\\\BERIGAN////////// *
“Goodnight and lets somehow win the series against the Cards! We are a better team than they are…”
Not so sure about that. As BravesDave pointed out, since May 1st, the Braves are 50-53. While the Cardinals have gone 51-49. 100 games or so, is a pretty good chunk of games to make an opinion on. I’m gonna go out on a limb, and say that NEITHER team is very good at all. Mediocre as their records show. However the Cardinals have been playing much better ball as of late.
Why do I see Rick Ankiel having about 4 HR’s and 2 or 3 diving catches this weekend?
By Coach (PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS)
August 24, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this
C’mon people , how do you turn this .500 team into a .700 team over the remaining 34 games ? It can be done , you just have to actually know a thing or two about how to run a baseball team.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this
“However, NOBODY expected Thorman to “take LaRoche’s place”
I’d betcha a cheeseburger that if you asked him if spring training, Donk woulda told you that he believed his boy Thormy could take over for Rochey just fine
(albeit with a tear in his eye for his former boy Rochey)
Just like when nobody thought Reitsma could close games. Except Donk
Or when nobody thought Andruw should bat cleanup. Except Donk.
Or when everyone realized that letting Maddux start the 8th in WS Game 1 in ‘99 was a bad idea. Except Donk, Coach, and Shaun.
Any guesses what Donk said tonight at the press conference?
I’d vote for “Just one bad pitch” as if tyhe walk homer run alone lost the game and his team’s lack of execution of fundamentals had nothing to do with it
By GermanBravesFan
August 24, 2007 1:21 AM | Link to this
Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous - that’s all I have left to say about this season. The only thing that would make my day is if someone (Carrol, DOB) could arrange a meeting between Bobby Cox and Robert, or, for that matter, between some of the Braves players and Robert. Damn, what a meeting that would be…
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 1:23 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
like i said the other night dont let WAYNE OR BOB J get to you. WAYNE who is defintely a braves fan, but one who buys a program every night and really has no idea why willy in his selfish manner tried to pull a bunt for a base hit instead of a sac.
I AM SERIOUS ABOUT THAT HARRIS ATTEMPT. he tried to pull a frekin bunt for a hit. we needed a sac. this is why this team loses.
By GermanBravesFan
August 24, 2007 1:25 AM | Link to this
… and, Carroll: by the time the September call-ups come around, the deficit will be too high to overcome. What we need is starting pitching and we won’t get it in September either.
By CC Rider
August 24, 2007 1:25 AM | Link to this
OK BRAVES FAITHFUL, Let’s look to next year. There are too many problems and no solutions for this season. Very good Lineup, 2 very good starters. NO 3, 4, 5 starters and a bullpen that is outpitched by CINN, ARIZ, SF, PHILY Etc. LINEUP: Andruw Jones gone, C-McCann, B. Pena; 1st base -Texiera, Backup?; 2nd- K.Johnson, Prado, SS-Renteria, Lillibridge; 3B- Chipper, Aybar; Outfield- LF Diaz, Harris; CF Francoeur?; RF B.Jones. Starting Pitching- Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton James: Sign Glavine, Make a run at Carlo Silva and if that fails sign Matt Clement to an incentive laden contract. You say 6 Starters? YOU BET! No more wasted seasons on Cormiers,Carlyles,Redmans,Davies Etc. Let Lerew and Reyes and perhaps James work at AAA until they are truly ready. What about Yunel Escobar you say? I hate to lose him but it,s time to get a real closer and bullpen. Escobar and Dotel or Soriano to Minnesota for Joe Nathan. The BULLPEN needs a overhaul. Wickman, Mahay, Yates gone!!!! Nathan, Gonzalez, Moylan Stays! New to the pen Devine, Ascaino, Acosta, Schreiber. Richmond Braves have quality backups in Stockman, Nix, Boyer,Medlin,Ring and Jung. Lillibridge can take over for Renteria after 2008. We sign Texiera and Nathan to extensions, continue to develop Reyes, James, Hanson, Rohlborough, Parr. This team would have a real chance and the budget should be within the guidelines that have been mentioned about the new rising payroll.
By wade blasingame
August 24, 2007 1:25 AM | Link to this
Two starters, weak bullpen, inconsistent offense, can’t beat the Reds. It’s over folks.
By Coach (PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS)
August 24, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this
Lew , your an idiot with no answers. All you do is gripe and complain. I know how to fix this team and you don’t have a clue about baseball.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 1:29 AM | Link to this
N8, I basically agree with your assessment of the team. Unfortunately, there are a few more things to worry about, like Chipper being a year older and Smoltz being a year older next season. Renteria may be gone. We will probably be in need of a new CF, and possibly a replacement for Willie Harris (not a real problem). We will certainly need to rebuild this bench…Orr, Woodward, Thorman, Franco, etc. will not be around next season. So, with the significant needs in CF, potentially LF, and on the bench, where does the money come from to improve the bullpen and rotation?? I am not counting on anything from Hampton (and I really hope that Schuerholz is not counting on him). Carlyle and James just don’t have what it takes…unless James can work on a third pitch and some stamina. Maybe Cormier is better next season. But Wickman is gone (thank God) and Gonzalez probably will not contribute next season. Not sure if Mahay or Dotel will be around. I guess the keepers look like Soriano, Moylan, Villarreal, and maybe Acosta. Yates is too inconsistent.
That is a lot of work for a team that will need to compete with the free-spending Mets and the Phillies, at least. The Phillies have just as many good young players as the Braves…and a few are pitchers.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this
Carroll, I didn’t see the Chipper quote in the game article. I would love to get the exact quote and love to read about him ripping on that fat slob Wickman. I posted earlier that Chipper must want to knock him on his large rear end, knowing that he, and Smoltz, and Hudson, etc work hard in the offseason to be in shape and this supposed “closer” can’t keep his mouth closed when food is in the area. Every time he has had to cover first, it seems, he comes back to the mound and blows the game.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 1:37 AM | Link to this
well once again this is BOBBYS fault. please could someone here get a baseball I.Q. how many double plays did we hit into? how many scrapped sacs. how many timeS did we get the count in our favor, only to swing at a BALL in the dirt, i.e FRANCOEUR.
here are the facts, all runs driven in by hoss and tex. BRAVE-DAVE i have somewhat come around on FRANCOUER, but i think he wants to be a high school hero every night that he just cant lay off bad pitches.
By mr baseball
August 24, 2007 1:37 AM | Link to this
Truly a team loss tonight. Contributions from just about everybody.
More stupid strategy, starting with sending Thorman up to pinch hit with Stanton ready to come into the game. Everybody’s complaining about the failures to get a bunt down. Correct as far that goes. But why are you asking .300 hitters to bunt in the first place, especially against the Reds’ bullpen? Giving away outs is the height of ignorance, but the Braves do it over and over again. The Reds didn’t bunt in a similar situation, and the batter hit a double. Pitchers bunt. Woodward bunts. Harris & Escobar hit. Let ‘em do what they do. Especially with 2 strikes. Just plain dumb.
The person most responsible is Wickman. And not for the HR ball to Dunn. If he catches Tex’s toss at 1st base he can pitch around Dunn and get out of the inning. Maybe there’s a reason some managers suggest that their players get in shape. Never been a problem for Braves’ players since the early ’90s.
Let’s not forget the Homeboy Upstairs. You know, the man who left us with such a sterling group of starting pitchers. Where are all the Braves’ young arms? Mostly in other organizations. Other than Dan Meyer, who helped bring us Hudson, all the pitching prospects the GM has dealt in recent years brought us either very short term gain (Marquis, Wainwright, Colon, Miner) or absolutely no gain (Capellan, Davies, McBride).
The Braves trade half their prospects for a player they would not have been needed if LaRoche had not been dealt for a reliever with a history of arm trouble. For every good trade he’s made (Hudson, Renteria, Wickman), Schuerholz has made just as many bad ones, and the deal for Tex may go down with the Justice/Grissom/Dye blunders and the Klesko/Boone fiasco as one that signals another downturn in the team’s fortunes if he isn’t re-signed.
Congrats, denizens. As poorly as the players and managers have done their jobs lately, and as useless as the GM has been in tending to an ailing pitching staff, most of you here the last few nights have been equally lousy. We’re all frustrated, but that doesn’t excuse some of the utter idiocy that has been appearing frequently on this blog the last few days. As usual, Coach & Redundant Robert lead the way, but some of you guys are giving them a run for their money.
There is plenty of deserved criticism for the manager and the players, but it helps to have a clue to how baseball is actually played before bloviating. The front running nature of this blog is astounding. The Braves are champs one minute, bums the next, heroes a few minutes later and losers seconds after that. Reading the blog after a game like tonight is a sure fire way to get whiplash from all the jumping on and off the bus.
I know you’re gone for the evening, Shaun, but my apologies for not having your back earlier this evening. It’s hard for one guy to stem the tide of mindless frustration that inundates this blog when things are going bad in Bravesville.
That said, losing 3 of 4 to the Reds is pretty pitiful. Barring divine intervention (a higher power than Joey), this team appears about done. There’s still plenty of time, but if there are reasons for optimism, I’m not sure what they are. Guess I’ve joined the ranks of nattering nabobs of negativism.
By Andy in Atlanta
August 24, 2007 1:38 AM | Link to this
Coach , I think I know what you are getting at. I doubt that Cox or McDowell would do it , but it is a great idea.
By Stan Lee
August 24, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox is a Hall of Fame manager. This robert fool is nothing but a cheap thug hiding behind a computer.
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this
BravesDave What are you talking about? When did you ever see me say that it was OK with me if my team just walked on and walked off the field. Did you read my long post?
I hurt just as bad as you do when we lose. I just am of the sort that tries to find the silver lining or looks on the bright side, or whatever bs saying you want to add here.
I don’t go off saying that players sucked. Some times I will say that a play sucked, but these guys are fellas just like you and me. They want to win. Most of these guys had to fight and claw their way through the minors, and then some guys come on here and start calling them names like “woodcrap” etc (I know that is not you). To me, that just ain’t right.
Does that make sense? I am trying to find some common ground here. Some sanity. Some relief from the constant negativism. That doesn’t mean I don’t think the team stinks it up on a regular basis. I just don’t see where beating that dead horse into a pill of hamburger solves anything. Some do. And then, it sort of grows, and then I get on a give them crap for it, then I am called all sorts of names, then I fire back, then somebody insults all my wives, then I cuss some more and call them crybabies, then I am called a kool-aid drinker.
Get my point. Doesn’t matter which person way back weeks or months ago started things, it has just sort of mushroomed into this side against that side. Sad thing is, we all want the same thing.
To coin a Rodney King phrase, “Can’t we all just get along!” To be honest with you, there are some on here that I don’t really care to get along with. You, BravesDave are not one of them. I happen to enjoy many of your posts. We are just from different sides of the tracks, I guess.
SOOO, please don’t think for a second that I don’t care, cause I damned sure do. I just don’t live and die with every season, month, week, game, inning, atbat, pitch….like many on here do.
So, when you say that I start things up here, I would beg to differ. I am not saying that I haven’t or that you have, but I think we all do. I try to get on and make things positive, and some A-hole then starts to ridicule me, then I start calling everybody whiners……you get the drift.
Coach Its pitching. So the question becomes: Who??? (oh no, let’s not start that one again!)
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 1:48 AM | Link to this
Nate, it’s all about confidence. Cards have it now, we don’t. Of course a decent 4-5 starter would solve a lot of woes too.
By Coach (PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS)
August 24, 2007 1:49 AM | Link to this
Griping and complaining solves nothing. How to fix the starting pitching ? I’m telling you , it can be done. You just have to think outside the box. I hear no one , other than myself , offering solutions. C’mon people , use your brains and not your emotions.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 1:54 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
been looking to try to buy the bottom of the market. well in baseball terms the s&p volatility index just HIT 60. for those people think about 2002
for whatever stupid reason (METHINKS) we are about to go on that run we have been both preaching about. got a stupid hunch that we will win the next 5 of 6.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 1:57 AM | Link to this
uga, big hits for the Braves, when needed, have been few and far between. I remember the winning hit by Escobar against the Rockies and Chipper’s big hit late against the Giants after Wickman blew another one, but outside of that, this team does not get big hits late when trailing or tied. They seem to have no problem piling on when they have a lead, or hitting homers when they are down big, but in the clutch, they are failing at an alarming rate. Francoeur is especially guilty. He is very clearly pressing in these situations lately.
Also, N8, another issue relative to my earlier post is that the free agent market for pitching is barren this offseason. Can we really afford to trade more of our prospects for pitching this offseason after the Dotel and Tex/Mahay deals??
By Bob, Journalist
August 24, 2007 1:58 AM | Link to this
fastasballs, I suppose that that I’m one of the sheep … for I do feel that we’re still in it … and while you may think my rhetoric much ado, I see little wrong and a lot right in your post … and no, I don’t see it as being negative in the same sense as those whith which I’ve previously taken issue.
I personally think that Buddy should have a date in Court and they wouldn’t wait until they get home … an emergency session is in order … his indecision, rather than his pitching probably cost us the game, another example of poor execution of the fundamentals … if was pivotal, if for no other reason than the impact the play had on his own level of focus as he faced the next hitter … what an emotional swing.
Why too were we bunting with nobody out and a good bat control hitter in the box in the first inning?
I don’t have any problem with fan frustration … nor have I problems with appropriate criticism, at least to a point. There’s a lot of truth in what you’ve said, especially with regard to the team’s level of readiness to play as manifested by an apparent deficiency in the execution of fundamentals … which seems to have plagued the team throughout the season.
However, I truly abhor the use of “can’t” … a favorite word of so many … but, I agree that generally speaking, they “haven’t” executed fundamentals well. Execution is the responsibility of the player … or at least they’re to be held accountable for their performances. However, it is incumbent upon management to know the expertise levels of its players and to do what is necessary to assure that everyone is adequately schooled, sharp and ready to play … that’s as true for veteran superstars as it is for rookies and journey utility players.
I see nothing wrong with holding the opinion that management has has been lax and failed in those responsibilities … I happen to concur with that opinion … but it’s also important to maintain a proper perspective and recognize that we are on the outside looking in … so, though while we can see the result and logically so conclude, we can’t be definitive in our identification of the problem.
I expect that such such criticism, when properly expressed, is well received by the vast majority of bloggers … and perceived as the honest opinion of a good fan, such as yourself … positive input and concerns, if you will.
Methinks it’s the combination of perceived attitude, tone and the way things are expressed that governs how posts are received … rather than the words themselves.
From my own perspective, the game has those we make our heroes but it remains a team game … and, if this collection of highly talented individuals is to make the playoffs, they must stay focused and do it as a team.
I know the players are all trying … and that’s as it should be for these are trying times … they must play within themselves, and play one game at a time … the importance of managerial and experienced player leadership is heightened during such times … later today is another day, to abuse Miss Mitchell’s famous words … and while many no longer care, the game’s afoot, and frankly, I still give a damn!
Go Braves!
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 1:59 AM | Link to this
Coach Are you talking about something tactical that can be done right now? Or are you talking in generalities and how to improve the pitching staff?
Come on man, many of us are up WAY past our bedtimes!
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 2:02 AM | Link to this
uga hope your right about that hunch!
By GM
August 24, 2007 2:03 AM | Link to this
Coach Just how do you propose to “fix” the Braves pitching problems? Spell it out for the masses. I think you’re just a cheap, generic version of Robert. Kind of like all those politicians who claim to have all the answers, but they never offer any up! Put up or shut the hell up!
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 2:04 AM | Link to this
MR. BASEBALL
the most intelliigent blog i have read all night, but i dont agree with the wickman call. we had our chances it should never come down to blaming a guy in the 12th. how about blaming the other six guys that cant get it done against the worst bullpen in baseball, MR. BASEBALL.
By Bob, Journalist
August 24, 2007 2:06 AM | Link to this
“If he catches Tex’s toss at 1st base he can pitch around Dunn and get out of the inning” … I don’t agree with all that was posted, but truth is truth.
By Coach (PUTTING MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS)
August 24, 2007 2:09 AM | Link to this
Go to sleep Wayne , I’ll wait until the next blog to offer up my idea’s and see what the majority of the day side of the blog thinks about it.
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 2:09 AM | Link to this
Bob, J How are the rest of you “sheep” tonight? (sorry fastasballs, couldn’t resist!)
I think most sheep are out helping our wiser friends count themselves to sleep, which is where I should be. Insomnia is a cruel thing. Not cured by MIB/BBQ blogging.
By Dad
August 24, 2007 2:10 AM | Link to this
To quote that old standard saying”you can stick a fork in the Braves, they are done” sums up the Braves chances in the NL East. Us Met fans were holding our breath that the Braves would not make a trade for a quality starter and go with the current 3, 4 & 5 starters who are a bunch of losers(1-8). The Braves stupidity in not addressing this starting pitching problem is going to cause them to miss the playoffs for two consecutive years. We thank you Braves management for your stupidity. Hope you enjoy watching the Mets breeze to their second consecutive NL East Title and then on to a World Series Championship
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 2:12 AM | Link to this
Wayne, I can really appreciate what you are saying, and I think we are on the same page mainly. We are all fans here (outside of some of the Mets losers who haven’t been around tonight since they lost another tough one to the Padres). I just don’t understand the constant criticism from the “positive” side of the blog. Even DOB participates. I agree that some may go overboard with their posts, but for the most part, people come here to express their feelings - if those feelings are frustration, well so be it. I very rarely see the positive side of the blog criticized by the negative side. But I do see me, N8, A-Ville, Robert, uga, et al criticized and ripped every night. We are all baseball fans, and fairly knowledgable I would say from reading the posts. I don’t mind a debate with someone who is positive, but it seems some don’t want a debate, they just want to run others down and express their desire that we leave the blog.
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this
Bob, J Win or lose, it is a glorious game, my friend! I do love it. Always have, always will.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 2:15 AM | Link to this
BOB THE J
well said just to many words. IT IS CALLED INTANGIBLES , which is one word we have not heard with this group. for whatever reason i think we are about to go on a RUN.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 2:24 AM | Link to this
uga, I will point out to you again what I said when you asked me for a prediction on the rest of this 16-game stretch, after the Braves went 2-2 in the first 4. After initially saying they needed to go 13-3, I felt that they were going to finish the stretch 6-6…in the last two against Arizona, the Reds series, the Cards, and the Marlins. Well, they are now 2-4. They need that little run that you are predicting just to get back to being mediocre. This last stretch, starting with the Mets series has been a disaster for this team. 3-3 road trip, followed by a 3-3 homestand, followed by a 1-3 start to another road trip. They just cannot overcome this rotation. You have to figure it is causing the team to press, knowing that Cormier, James, Carlyle, and Reyes are going to be on the mound at various times.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 2:24 AM | Link to this
“YES IT CAN , You just have to think outside the box. How to turn a .500 team into a .600 team ? It can be done , you just have to use the old noodle and think. I know exactly how to do it.”
So do I
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
not to kiss your butt, but well said. we invent ways to lose night after night. I SURE WOULD LIKE TO GET ON BOARD but darn it is sure tough. brass tax time, got a hunch that SMOLTZ is gonna look over at LARUSSA AND SPIT IN HIS COCKY FACE TOMMOROW.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 2:32 AM | Link to this
“It’s true, we rarely let a reliever go 2”
Except that time in Game 4 of the ‘96 WS when Cox had a particularly odiferous episode of cranial flatulance
By fastasballs
August 24, 2007 2:33 AM | Link to this
Bob, Journalist
You were not on my mind when making the sheep statement, actually nobody was. I’ve been catching up on past blogs & have seen many, many posts offering criticism for any blogger who posts in a negative tone concerning the team & their underachievement. I’ve been too busy of late to keep tabs on “How the blog turns”.
I refuse to personally attack a player or manager, but will offer my 2 cents in regards to their performance, because I am a life long fan & customer of the organization.
I’ve always tended to keep my arguements here & everywhere else as rational as possible, while still getting the point across. However, the 2007 Atlanta Braves could make just about any true fan a raving lunatic by the end of the season. If this was the 80’s, we would all have a good laugh & the highlight of the night would be a “Skipism” about an asleep fan.
Even as fans you know when your team is on a train bound for nowhere & back then we were all aboard, but it was still fun & I rarely missed a game.
I try not to nitpick every moment of a game, but something is very wrong with this team & it’s not the talent level. I know they are alive & well in the wildcard race, but it just feels like the season is about gone. It’s evident in the players faces, but I don’t think they know how to stop it.
The only real life this team has shown since April was right after the Smoltz/Chipper media frenzy.
I hope they pull it together, but I’m not seeing anything that really make me believe it….yet.
By Wayne in Utah
August 24, 2007 2:34 AM | Link to this
BravesDave One last thought, and I promise I will not be back (he says, sure, promises, promises!). I am not sure if you will ever really see what I am talking about. Not that you aren’t trying as it seems you are. I just think there is a new sort of culture (for lack of a better term) that makes it OK to get so jacked up over instant gratification. Some have a hard time watching a tough loss, without having to pick it apart. I would be inclined to say most times, well the best team today won. We’ll get em tomorrow.
I am not sure what makes people different in that regard, I guess it is good though, as we wouldn’t want everyone to be a bunch of “sheep” like some of us on here.
Funny thing, my friends call me a “hawk” in other venues (Don’t get me going, Serbok!).
So, while I think you are truly trying to understand my point of view, and I am doing the same toward your perspective, I am not sure we are going to succeed in doing so. And that is not necessarily bad. I just think we are from a different time or experience.
Is it age, is it the manner in which we were raised, is it personality, is it a combo of all, probably.
Getting to far out there tonight, and since Coach is just stringing us along, I will now depart. I will look for any response you might have on the morrow.
Nite all!
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 2:40 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
been with you the last two months about .500 baseball, knew the 5 wins in SMOLTZS THE LAST 13 starts. the trio of morons is definetely going to be tough to overcome.
for whatever reason i got a hunch we might really BOOKEND this the rest of the way.
you know what they say 162.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 2:40 AM | Link to this
34 games left
.500 would be 17-17, while .600 would be 21-13.
Fire Cox TODAY and I guarantee you we’d be four games better the rest of the way than we’d be without him
By Metropolitan Man
August 24, 2007 2:42 AM | Link to this
I’ll hold my judgement until the METS-braves season series are completed and when the philthies start shooting for the wild card. Until then I’m still not satisfied especially after losing 2 out of 3, and the season series to a team who leads the leagues in ERA. Not that I’m afraid of facing the Pads, but they made their point that they really wanted to win and are not laying down. Good luck in catching them. Thier manager is preaching pitching and defense as the key to their success this year, no bats and little speed. How is that Tex thing going so far, I know he is lightitng it up but has it resulted in wins yet????
Heres to next weekends Battle at the Ted!!!
LETS GO METS!!!
By Robert
August 24, 2007 2:47 AM | Link to this
“Coach …. I think you’re just a cheap, generic version of Robert. “
All the barbs that have been thrown my way and that right there is the first time I have really felt truly insulted
By Mr Positive, Kool-Aid Drinker, Sheepster in Utah
August 24, 2007 2:51 AM | Link to this
BD “trio of morons” statements from your uga friend are the sort of things that get to me the most. (why not just say our 3-5 guys have not been getting it done, instead of demeaning those guys, who have mothers, wives, families; just like us?)
couldn’t resist…..
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 2:52 AM | Link to this
WAYNE- IN MORMON LAND HOW MANY INBRED WIVES YOU GOT,
you are calling out the only fan on this blog that has any understanding how the game is played. HE FRICKIN GETS IT. sorry it does not win him a WURTSLIZER. the rest of you guys can go play pattycake with the LEMMER, IN ORLANDO. as for me i would like to talk BASEBALL. win or lose i get the game, and guess what when we lose i aint happy.
By Double Deuce
August 24, 2007 2:53 AM | Link to this
Once again I have the luxury of being on late so I get a chance to read and feel the tenor of the blog tonite, and I must admit that for the first time in awhile it seems as though all Braves fans have resigned ourselves to the fact that we really do have our work cut out for us, but that its not an impossible task. While we all seem to have arrived at the same conclusion from differing views, it is nice to read insightful, well thought out, and properly toned responses and observations for a change. Good stuff on here tonight fellas, and done with respect and knowledge of the game of baseball just as DOB intended, I’m sure, when he began this blog. We’re not done yet, but man have we dug ourselves a deep hole. C’mon Braves!
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 3:07 AM | Link to this
DOUBLE-DEUCE
i am with you for whatever reason i got a hunch we are about to go on a run. dont know why, and i have been one of the most realists here. just think the three morons might turn into wisemen. i might be wrong, it would not be the first time, just a weird hunch.
By Bob, Journalist
August 24, 2007 3:07 AM | Link to this
I couldn’t help but chuckle when I read old Richard Cory’s early season evaluation … ”Braves no better than third, possibly second place in the East … Wild Card a more realistic possibility“ … well, if we’re no better than 3rd in the East, I’m not liking our chances in the Wild Card!
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 3:17 AM | Link to this
Wayne, there is every chance that you might be correct regarding “instant gratification”. In the past, there was no round-the-clock coverage of your team. There was little coverage of baseball in the winter. You could not watch or listen to every game. You could not read about every game in detail. Everything is now at you fingertips. I can watch every game, read about the Braves whenever I want, discuss the Braves with others around the country at any time of night or day. Of course, this has an impact on how people view each game of a season.
When people devote time to their passions, in this case the Braves, they tend to make it a very personal experience. I have other things in my life to worry about…a pregnant wife, a home, my family, bills, etc. But I also like the escape that sports provide. I don’t want to watch reality shows or 10 different CSIs. I want to watch Braves baseball, read some books, and enjoy life as much as I can. And I want them to win as much as possible. There is alway real life in the morning. So, yes, I place unrealistic expectations on my team. Yes, I am angry for a little while when they lose. I am happy when they win. But it is all there for me, every day. So, I will over-analyze each game. Call me crazy.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 3:22 AM | Link to this
BOB J
you defintely have mastered the english language. i really like your blogs, they make me laugh. but some times i think your intentions are to condescend the rest of us that aint so smart. METHINKS. ANYWAYS JUST A STUPID LATE NIGHT THOUGHT. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 3:26 AM | Link to this
Wayne, I don’t care if uga calls a couple of pitchers morons. Half the country calls our President worse names on a daily basis. When you are in the public eye, and you are compensated well, and you know that your profession, be it politican, professional athlete, actor/actress, will put you out there to be scrutinized, what can you do? Unfortunately, this is a coarse culture. Half the time, I think people like Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, etc love the attention. They love to hear people calling them idiots and tarts. I am not going to get worked up over uga saying that guys that are paid to get it done and are not getting it done are “morons”. Our bosses would probably call us morons if we were not doing our job.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 3:38 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
once again well said. while i have not mastered the english language like other people, i think you are dead on. certain people may say we are negative, i just choose to think we are right. that being said there is no doubt that we would love to see this team in the playoffs.
By Double Deuce
August 24, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this
Braves Dave
Your baseball knowledge and passion sometime leads you to the edge of correctness, but somehow I doubt that correctness is what guides you. I like your insights, and for a while your aggressive, confrontational stuff turned me away from reading your blogs, but in the end we are all passionate Braves fans and I know that your passion is expressed in a much different manner than mine. All that aside, I have a hard time reading that this guy or that guy has no guts, or is a moron or an idiot. I don’t care how much a person is paid. That’s between the team that pays him and the player or his agent. In the end, these are just young guys that have paid their dues thru the minor league years and are trying to realize their dreams. It is a fragile string that keeps most of those dreams alive, and that’s why I have a hard time with labeling a kid a moron or an idiot for trying to play a game. He is a person like you or I trying to make his way in life, the difference being your and my mistakes aren’t played on ESPN every night. Again, as before, I enjoy reading your blogs, and while I don’t always agree with the way they are expressed, the passion and baseball knowledge that you show is obvious. Lets try and channel that passion into a winning streak and get this team into the playoffs.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 4:07 AM | Link to this
Absolutely, uga, I want to see this team in the playoffs. They should be there. They have, on the whole, an excellent collection of talent. Unfortunately, they are not putting that talent to work right now. And they haven’t since the early part of the season. The 24-12 start tells you that this team has the ability to play well over a long stretch of games, but it is not happening now. The pitching has been poor, but even when they seem to get an acceptable performance out of James, Cormier, Reyes, or Carlyle, they are not playing to win. Those acceptable performances have not been frequent, but they have occurred.
Was Mike Gonzalez really that important to this team? It seems that ever since he went down, they have been a less-than-.500 ballclub. Did his loss hurt them psychologically? I guess the Tex trade would have helped psychologically, so that can’t be it.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 4:17 AM | Link to this
Double Deuce, I myself do not call players morons or idiots. I don’t really remember ever attacking a player personally on the blog…although I did lay into Wickman tonight because his physical condition disgusts me. Care a little bit about your profession, Bob. I have a ton of respect for all of these guys. I played baseball for over 20 years…American Legion, Babe Ruth, high school, etc (now I am relegated to softball). I know how difficult this game is and I have had friends that have played minor league baseball and can vouch for the grind. I actually know what it is like to face a guy like Joe Borowski when he is in high school. This game is a killer. But if someone wants to call these guys whatever, like I said, people call the President worse every day. I am not going to get high-and-mighty and rip on them.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 4:26 AM | Link to this
uga, maybe I was wrong about Mike Gonzalez’s impact on the team. I just refreshed my memory of his performance this season by checking out his stats. The Braves were 16-2 in games where Mike Gonzalez made an appearance. He only allowed a run in 3 of his 18 appearances…and in each of those three appearances, it was only a single run.
A real shame that chances are, we will probably not see him contribute next season. He went down in May…one year plus rehab, some minor league work, why bother bringing him back in August or September? Let him rest for the whole of 2008. Can’t afford to rush him back.
By Bob, Journalist
August 24, 2007 4:29 AM | Link to this
fastasballs, I think I understand how you feel … the intended centerpiece of the 2007 edition was the bullpen … and had it performed as touted, and widely expected … methinks all would have been well and we would now be riding high in the saddle.
Wayne said it well … we’re all products of our own environs and experiences … it just not seemly to fault those who give their all and do their best, no siree Bob!
As I see it, if the team I support is doing it’s best to win … and gets bested by the evil opposition, I’m unhappy … mad at the cheating umpires that got paid off … and upset with manager for not doing what I thought he should do, the idiot!!
But, them’s my boys … winning’s nice but it’s a bonus … don’t talk bad about my boys … they give no quarter and ask for none neither … I don’t give up on them or find fault with them … not so long as they’re doing their best … we’ll get them next time, and if not, then the time after that!!
I hold management to a somewhat different standard … the players hired on to do a job … management has five jobs … hiring talented folks with good potential … properly training them to do the job; our way … getting the most out of them … and, though them’s my boys, firing them if they can’t do the job … now that’s a tough one but sometimes, it has to be done!
I know that only four … the fifth is is to address arising problems effectively and in a timely fashion!
If we work from the assumption that both management and the players are all working in concert and doing their best … then our job, as I see it, is to embrace their efforts … regardless of outcome.
If the management team isn’t getting the job done then it’s incumbent on the ownership to replace them!
It may be a vicious circle … just don’t talk bad about my boys when they fall on their faces, that’s management’s job, not ours … and it’s a mistake to give up on them too … our day will come!
uga-brave, some times you have to explain how the watch is made in order for folks to understand what time it is.
By Braves Fan 79
August 24, 2007 5:38 AM | Link to this
TennesseePaul: to your 11pm post…no man trading everyone for prospects wouldnt make us good in 6 years….it would make us the ROYALS OR DEVIL RAYS for the next 10!! Where do pple get these stupid ideas from? This is a good team pple, with very bad strategic managnment. Bringing in wickman whos stuggled on the road, and gives up alot of fly balls…in a small park like that was just DUMB!
By Charlie
August 24, 2007 5:39 AM | Link to this
Wickman put an exclamation mark the the Braves’ season. Lousy pitching, little league defense,(Can you cover first?), bad decisions (Thanks Buddy), and a CLOSER that can’t CLOSE. I hope that Wickman retires to a keg beer softball league for next year. It’s where his talent level lies. What a joke. At least Bobby didn’t throw in his usual “He pitched LIGHTS OUT, it was just a problem with location. Our pitching staff (minus Smoltz and Hudson) is usually LIGHTS OUT…LIGHTS OUT, GAME OVER, ANOTHER BRAVES LOSS. This year the Braves have had a million chances to step up, and take over the division. They don’t. They lack talent, execution, and they have no “money” players…someone who steps up, takes charge, and gets it done. This team has an unbelievable number of players who CHOKE when the game is on the line, who spit it out when it counts. This is not a playoff team. Since April, that’s been obvious. The 2007 Braves are mediocre, at best. They will end this season, mid pack in the Division if they are lucky. Buddy, Chuck, Lance,Oscar, Wickman, and others in the bullpen need to find other employment. Andruw is already gone. (He disappeared in April.) I am so ready for this season to end. Based on their performance, the Braves pitchers must feel the same way.
By bill
August 24, 2007 6:03 AM | Link to this
I have been critical of JS and BC for the past two years. I appreciate what they have done for this organization. It’s time for them to move on. BC can’t get anymore out of these players. The players seems to be lifeless. This has been a bad year for JS. With all of the bad signing and trades. He made a big mistake trading for Tex. Tex is a great player and glad to have him but it was the wrong trade. JS knew that he couldn’t get any pitching but traded away the farm system for a hitter. He should have waited until this off season to make a big trade. The farm system is still pretty good but he sure did put a dent in it. This whole organization needs a make over, starting at the top. This team is boring, if it takes a couple of years for this team to be competitive, so be it. JS left KC in shambles before he left, please leave before you wreck the Braves system. I’m a frustrated fan but will always support them. Let’s start the retooling now. Bring up alot of the top prospects and see what they can do this last month.
By tim
August 24, 2007 6:16 AM | Link to this
CHALK THIS SEASON UP TO NICE TRY. NOW THAT THE OWENERSHIP HAS BEEN SETTLED, LETS HOPE A COUPLE THINGS HAPPEN THIS OFF SEASON 1) LET ANDREW GO PLEASE 2)BRING BACK LEO I THINK WE CAN NOW TRULY SEE JUST HOW IMPORTANT HE WAS 3) FINALLY WE HAVE A BETTER THAN AVG OFFENSE, PLEASE PLEASE GO GET SOME PITCHING STARTERS. THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL THE BRAVOS MAKE ANOTHER RUN
By Yars
August 24, 2007 6:49 AM | Link to this
Any fan who follows the Braves could have told you 4 months ago that this team doesn’t have the starting pitching to make the playoffs. A rotation of Hudson, Smoltz, James, Carlyle, Jo Jo/Cormier is not capable of making the playoffs. The offense is there, but the starting pitching is the reason why this team will miss making the playoffs for the 2nd consecutive year. A pitcher like James may have had a good rookie season because teams were unfamiliar with him. That’s not the case this season. Carlyle is a AAAA pitcher, Jo Jo isn’t ready for the show. The kid has promise, though. Cormier is nothing more than a #5 or even a spot starter. Hopefully, Schuerholz will address this problem after the season. I hope Andruw is not in a Braves uniform in ‘08. Signing him long term would be throwing $$$ away. His batting average is embarrassing, most of his HR’s are meaningless, & his defense isn’t worth $18 million per season. Trade Renteria for a decent pitcher. Edgar isn’t needed anymore. Escobar is the SS for the Braves. Boy do I love Escobar’s arm. Reminds me of Furcal, but with better control. I guess until this nightmare season is over, we can keep hearing Bobby praising & sugarcoating everything about this team. I wish for once, Bobby would just tell it like it is. Tell a reporter that you’re disappointed with how your team is playing. Tell a reporter that your team should be in 1st place if it weren’t for all these careless losses. Bobby needs to start being more realistic about his team. I hope a player does come out & speak the truth real soon. Hearing the same crap over & over from some fans & Bobby is getting old. Time is running out. 34 games left. What p** me off is how pathetic the NL is this season. Look at the wildcard standings. Do any of those teams scare you? Padres? Phillies? Dodgers? Brewers? Hell no. We start a 3 game series against the Cardinals tonight. A team that has been playing under .500 ball for most of the season. Smoltz tonight, Hudson tomorrow night. A sweep is a must.
By chipdip
August 24, 2007 6:58 AM | Link to this
The BRAVES are done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Plain and simple!!!!!!That fat OAF of a closer needs to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Ron H
August 24, 2007 7:25 AM | Link to this
WE ARE DONE. i say that with much heartache. i really thought this was the year. now, we’re 3 games behind the WC, 6 behind the Mutts, and no reason to believe we can play better than .500 ball with 35 games left…
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 7:26 AM | Link to this
The Padres have hit 119 HR’s the Braves 140. Does that explain their .31 point discrepancy in BA then??? The braves have driven in (I assume before today’s game) 620 runs. Padres 525. 267 doubles by the braves, 247 doubles by the Padres. 27 triples by Padres, 26 triples by the braves. So, why oh why did the braves score almost 100 more runs than the Padres??? Couldn’t have anything to do with hitting 31 points higher could it????
First of all, yes, the Braves offense is better than the Padres offense. Never said it wasn’t so I’m not sure why you are comparing them.
Second, the Padres overall offense looks a lot worse than the Braves offense because the Padres play in the worst park for hitters probably in the majors.
It’s a simple concept: if a team plays in an extreme hitters or pitchers park, looking at their road stats may give you a huge clue as to how good they really are because they are more likely to play in a variety of types of ballparks. And the Padres rank relatively high in road scoring.
Of course the Braves are better than the Padres in all or most offensive categories. Not only are they a better offensive team but they don’t play half their games in quite as bad a hitters park. I’m saying the Padres aren’t as bad as their overall offensive stats. Context, my friend!
This has to just be personal because I don’t see any way you can dispute this by looking at the facts.
If Cox cant affect the team one way or another as far as winning games, and if he can never be held accountable in any way for anything the team does -
Then what exactly is he so darn good at, by your reckoning?
I didn’t say Cox can’t affect the team. I said he can’t affect the team that much…not as much as you seem to think.
Also, answer my question. This is the third time I’ve asked. It’s not so hard. If managers can affect the outcome of games as much as you seem to think, why don’t the best get close to as much as at least really good players? Could it be baseball execs really know managers make some difference but not all that much? Let’s see if you’ll answer it this time. (Probably not because you can’t come with anything besides “Cox is a donkey” or some other farm animal. How about offering up something intelligent? We’ve heard the Cox-is-a-donkey thing. Real cute. But how about growing up and offering something intelligent to the discussion.)
By h_charles
August 24, 2007 7:36 AM | Link to this
It is easy to get annoyed with Bobby’s attitude. To the untrained eye it just looks like head in the sand, “there is nothing wrong here” blindness and loyalty to a fault.
However, you really need to see the forrest through the trees. That atttitude is Bobby’s greatest asset, and it is what makes him a successful manager. Bobby has blind loyalty from his players. In no other organization would guys like Chipper and Smoltz stick around this long. That is 100% Bobby.
I don’t think anyone would argue Bobby isn’t a flawed game manager. He certainly is. However, he and he alone is responsible for keeping the core of money players we have intact, despite the ever shrinking payroll. Without Chipper and Smoltz, where would this team have been the last 7 years with this kind of payroll? Absolutely nowhere.
So, criticize Bobby’s management of pitcherss or his misplaced faith in Chris Woodward, but layoff his positive attitude and belief in his guys in general. It is a priceless asset.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 7:56 AM | Link to this
Shaun - gd-it I HAVE answered your questions - this one and every other one you’ve ever asked. P** off ahole -
You ask a question. I answer it. You respond by asking me again and again to answer your question.
I am not responsible for your failure to be able to understand my answers
You officially join Coach as bloggers I am just gonna scroll by and ignore
Every time you are called on your doublespeak, you re-hedge and mumble some new mumbo jumbo
Dont respond. Or do. I dont care and wont know
By ssiscribe
August 24, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this
Like a volcano that rumbles and steams for months, then finally blows its top, the frustration has gushed over the rim and is running throughout Braves Nation.
The ash covers everything this morning, as the denizens of the Braves/MIB, the players in the clubhouse and Braves’ fans across the nation are coming to grips with the fact their favorite baseball team — a team that just three short weeks ago was muttering the words “World Series” — just lost three straight games to Cincinnati.
And no, it’s not the Big Red Machine version of Cincinnati. It’s this year’s version, which sucks.
So, what does that say of the Braves, who this morning awaken in fourth place in the NL wild-card standings, just as close to the seventh-place Cardinals as they are to the first-place Padres?
It says this team still has a chance to go to the playoffs — and that chance isn’t as remote as it may seem through the smoke and debris and stench of a series blown to hell in a handbasket.
But it also says this team has to get going, and now.
The now part sounds easy enough, with John Smoltz and Tim Hudson scheduled to toe the slab tonight and Saturday in St. Louis against the Cardinals. But what if, horrors be, one of those two lose? Right now, the dynamic duo of Smoltzie and Huddy are all the Braves can rely up, because the back three spots in the rotation — after teetering and leaning with every breeze since early April — have utterly and totally collapsed.
What will Jo Jo Reyes do Sunday afternoon in the heat of St. Louis against Adam Wainwright (how good would the kid from the SSI look in a Braves’ uni right now? And how’s the weather in Boston, Mr. Drew?)? What about when Lance Cormier opens a series Monday night in South Florida against the Marlins? Buddy Carlyle’s turn comes Tuesday in Florida …
You get my drift. The Braves must get back close, and soon. To do that, they have to get better starting pitching than the Nos. 3, 4 and 5 spots have provided.
Can you blame the bullpen? Not really. With the exception of Wickman, who for some reason just can’t get it done on the road, the bully last night was spot-on good, Moylan’s one pitch notwithstanding. Yates did an awesome job getting out of that jam. Soriano looked much better. Acosta looked very sharp, very impressive.
The bullpen is tired. When three-fifths of your rotation can’t get out of the fourth inning, what else do you expect from the guys behind the outfield fence? Truth be told, the Braves really could’ve won all three of the games they lost, thanks to their offense and their bullpen.
But no thanks to the starters, which is where Atlanta’s playoff push will end prematurely if somebody — ANYBODY — doesn’t get going.
Is it realistic to say the Braves will be playing five weeks from Wednesday? Certainly it is. Atlanta, for all the blown games and struggles, is just three games out of a playoff spot. Even the NL East isn’t out of reach. Six games can be made up, especially with six left against the Mets and their bullpen starting to show some major cracks. But if the Braves are burying themselves in 60 percent of their games (care to guess which ones I’m talking about?), then it’s going to be very difficult just to stay at .500, let alone play better than that.
The most frustrating aspect of this is the Braves are conditioned and built, for a change, to win in October. They have the two dominant aces and the solid top-to-bottom lineup. Relying on two studs on the hill works in October … but those guys need some help if this team is going to get there.
It’s not over, folks, not by a longshot. Last night was probably the most frustrated I’ve felt since the Houston playoff game two years ago. That game ended the season. This game does not, but you get the feeling if the Braves repeat the past three games the next couple of times through the rotation, the end will be near.
True championship teams, and true championship fan bases, rise through the tough times. For the Braves, and for Braves Nation, right now is as tough as it gets.
Let’s see what we’ve got.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By Coach (PUT UP OR SHUT UP)
August 24, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this
C’mon O’Brien , put up a new blog and I’ll tell you how this team could have a real chance at winning the wild card.
By DD
August 24, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this
3 OUT OF 4 to Cincy???? We are toast. We can’t win 2 out of 5 games the rest of the season. The rate we are going we will be out of the Wild Card race in 2 weeks. Someone has to step up and pitch other than Smoltz & Hudson. This really sucks!
By ugarulz
August 24, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TELL WICKMAN THAT HE PITCHES FOR THE BRAVES AND NOT THE HOME RUN DERBY COMMITTEE.
By tbo
August 24, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this
I don’t think that it matters if these Braves win a playoff spot. The way they have been playing from top to bottom shows that they would get killed in the first round of playoffs. I feel it is a reflection of the manager BC and until he is gone we will continue to be frustrated night after night at their inept performance. So, even thought I’m sure nobody cares, I am done. On to watching football.
By Thrillhouse44
August 24, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
Well put, ssiscribe. It ain’t over yet, but the Braves definitely need 3, 4, and 5 to step up.
By Hunter
August 24, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this
Yo? Negative Nancies…This is a message to all the LOUSY BANDWAGON BRAVES FANS that decided to vote…(Who cares they won’t make the playoffs anyways). Why don’t you take your NEGATIVE ENERGY somewhere else?! If you don’t think they are going to make the playoffs, then why do you even bother reading about the Braves and then wasting energy clicking buttons, so you can share your NEGATIVE thoughts? Braves will win the division, they won’t need the wild card. However, they do need support. Like, perhaps, a sell-out at a game not against the Mets or Phillies. Buy a ticket or get a life, you Negative Nancies!
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this
I read the “commentary” from last night and for the most part it is the “negatives” rippin’ the “positives” and vicer reverser. I have nothing to add except to say, it don’t look good—the Braves’ chances. But then, pigs have been known to be dive-bombers.
I do want to say something about this “Bruce” character. I assure him that he speaks with the imperial “we” when he makes “light” of jjs’s contributions to the blog, or expresses what he perceives to be, “general” displeasure with jjs’s “journals”. WE, and can I speak for others this time, please!, find him intelligent, witty, and very talented. If you do not, I have one word for you. bye.(lower-case intended.)
By todd h
August 24, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
tbo,
i understand your frustration, but this subpar run goes straight to 3,4,5. we are not even getting average at this point. i don’t know if bc can do squat about not having enough quality starters. not many teams have enough either. but, it is disapointing. go braves
By Coach (PUT UP OR SHUT UP)
August 24, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this
The answer to this pitching problem is so damn obvious. Please tell me I’m not the only one who can see it.
By Wayne in Utah (now on hiatus)
August 24, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
After last nights back and forth with some bloggers, I have determined that it might be in my best interests if I give this thing a rest for a while. I don’t think being on here is improving my life right now.
I think BD and I determined that it is the world of instant information and instant gratification that is frustrating me more than the Braves losing a game. While he is very accepting of what I consider poor behavior, that does not necessarily make it right. That old argument our kids gave us when they were teens, that, “Dad, everybody is doing it!”
These facts and other nameless bloggers whose constant and continued idiocy have placed me in this frame of mind to “find another hobby.”
Goodbye my friends, and many of you I consider friends (isn’t that an interesting thought, as we really haven’t met!?!?) I will look in from time to time, but in the meantime, go Braves, and go Braves fans!
By KC
August 24, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
BravesDave:
I was wrong about that too. I didn’t think the loss of Mike Gonzalez would hurt us all that much in the end. But I was working off the assumption that we had the same Bob Wickman we had at this time last year.
Hey, at least we know that if we can make the post season… we’ve got a great shot. If not, I truly believe Hampton will be healthy next year (can’t bank on it, but I think he’ll be ready).
And Mike Gonzalez should really be able to help us at some point next year, as relievers usually have an easier time making a fast comeback from TJ surgery than starters.
Also, I am still of the opinion that Tom Glavine will be back for one more season in Atlanta (but only if the Mets DON’T win the World Series… God forbid). So even without Andruw, I think this team will be in prime shape for a World Series next year, if they aren’t able make a serious run this year.
However, I have not lost hope for this year’s team. Not at all. Their Wild Card chances still look good.
By Efrim
August 24, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
KC
I applaud your everlasting optimism.
34 games to go, 12 against the Phillies and Mets. Two teams with very good offenses. Lance Cormier and Buddy Carlyle are going to have to face those teams.
I wouldn’t bet on Tom Glavine. Even if Andruw Jones and Bob Wickman leave, what do you think our payroll will be? I really don’t think we will have the money to afford signing any free agents.
12 million for Teixiera 14 million for Smoltz 13 million for Hudson 12 million for Chipper 6 million for Renteria 15 million for Hampton
Thats 72 million right there. And I don’t want to hear people saying Edgar will be traded. Remember that our best player in Chipper Jones can’t be counted on for more than 130 games. We need a reliable backup, and I am not willing to trade a SS who has an 872 OPS and is only making 6 million dollars.
So figure that 72 million plus all the other players on our team. Unless Liberty is raising the payroll to 95-100 million dollars, I just don’t see us signing anyone on the free agent market.
Tom Glavine isn’t the type of starter any Braves fan should be looking for. We should be looking to trade for a young starting pitcher such as a Joe Blanton type. An innings eater. Not a 42 year old soft tossing left hander.
By Billy Walsh
August 24, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
Jo Jo, Buddy, and Lance in a shoe box of a stadium. Throw in a shakey pen and you have a recipe for disaster. Did anyone hear the Reds tv broadcasters rip Andruw Jones? The braves offense might be formidable, but late in the game in key situations they are lousy. The only way this team makes a run is if Smoltz and Hudson continue to pitch well and James starts pitching like and number 3 starter.
By Robert
August 24, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
“Without Chipper and Smoltz, where would this team have been the last 7 years with this kind of payroll? Absolutely nowhere.”
Hello? And where have we been the past 7 years? Excluding an embarassment at the hands of the Diamonbacks in ‘01, the answer is
Absolutely nowhere
I dont care about 100% loyalty to Bobby. I dont give a darn if they are cheating on Bobby with every coach, backup catcher, and half-wit beat writer east of LA, so long as they win championships
On the other hand, if they flop every year, I could care less if they are more loyal to each other than Gilligan was to the Skipper
(tho I always suspected he was puttin it to Mrs Howell on the side)
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
Efrim,
I have no idea what’s going to happen, but if Liberty Media is trying to not add payroll, why wouldn’t the Braves entertain a Renteria trade? They already have a guy who’s ready to play shortstop in the majors everyday and is going to make a whole lot less than $6 million for the next few seasons.
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
Robert-one-note Dude, I agree with you in this sense. BC, after reaching the apogee of his career, is now at the nadir. So, let’s both of us hope that he decides to hang-up-his-cleats after this season. But, there is no way the Braves are going to fire him, now or later. So, please give it up!! Please!!
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 24, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
LEW, Robert(jitb)& Braveheart…..I miss you guys and your predictions for braves success and Mets failures. I miss your unbiased baseball analsys and gentlemen like disposition. Where or where have you all gone. It seems you’re slowly fading away just like your braves.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
Coach-Yes, I’m and idiot. You’re absolutely right. You’re always absolutely right. But I’m still waiting for you to tell us how we can turn excrement to gold. Come on. You said you know exactly how to make the Braves play .700 baseball. We, your faithful knuckle draggers await with baited breath your profound utterances. Please, Oh Coach. Enlighten we your people. Let us sit at your smelly feet and learn the wisdom of the ages. Let your profound knowledge of baseball lore pour forth upon us, Oh Coach. Please. Pontificate for us OH Learned and all knowledgeable one. Please tell us how this miracle might be accomplished. Leave us sit no longer in impenetrable baseball darkness. We need your word and your enlightenment so we can go run to John Schuerholz and inform him how it may be accomplished. Please Oh Analyst of analysts. We beseech thee. Inform us. Please. Do it soon before time runs completely out. How may the Braves be saved and turned into a .700 team?
By Efrim
August 24, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
Shaun
What do you expect to get for Edgar Renteria?
I need to know. I understand the logic in trading him, but he is our best #2 hitter and I really don’t expect Escobar to post an OPS of 100 points close to what Edgar is currently at.
By Coach(Head up my darkside of the moon)
August 24, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
Will somebody please pay attention to me? I so want to tell you “all” I know, and I promise that won’t take long. Now listen up you Kool-Aid-Drinking-knuckledraggers.
By No Chop Zone
August 24, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this
duh. duh. duh. duh. And frothingmore…
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
Okay. I’m trying to stay calm and reasonable. Last night’s game was the last straw however. This crap has to stop. Some things need….no…must change! Caroll said she doesn’t foresee a closed door meeting. She better be wrong! A closed door meeting is a must right now. Chipper, Smoltz, and Hudson need to call everyone into a room and close the door shut and lock it. No Cox! No Pendleton! No McDowell! No Perez! No coaches of any kind!
Its time for some folks to be called out. I don’t care who it is. I named the three players I named because they are veterans and they have done their job this year. Andruw is not included because he is part of the problem! These three guys need to step up and be leaders. They need to get in some guys’ faces if that is what it takes. They need to impress upon these guys that this is the major leagues and they need to work harder to better. They need to make it clear that “okay” is not acceptable. If some punches get thrown, that is fine. Its time the frustration gets out and some folks are called to the mat. Its that simple!
Then, JS and Cox need to ditch their moronic loyalty to useless players. Chris Woodward needs to be designated for assignment yesterday. I realize Scott Thorman is young but it is apparent to everybody but Cox that he needs to go. Brandon Jones and Bryan Pena need to be called up to take their place. Jones begins platooning with Diaz while Willie Harris can take the utility role that Woodward had. B. Pena would take Thorman’s spot and make the Braves bench 100% better right off the bat.
A starter has to be found and found now! Steve Trachsel is no Brandon Webb but is better than what we currently have. No matter who it is somebody has to be acquired today.
This team needs to get their collective heads out of their a**! This team is too talented to be a .500 team. The problem is that they are allowed to be mediocre. It is up to them to decide to be better than that. I am tired of hearing Chipper, Francoeur, and McCann say the right things to the media but not to their teammates. Don’t tell me how ridiculous it is that nobody can lay down a bunt or get a hit in a clutch situation. Tell your damn teammates. Tell your manager to quit yelling and screaming at umpires and begin yelling and screaming at underachieving uninspired players.
I’m freakin out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By STRETCH
August 24, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this
The only thing i can do now is think things have got to turn around and NOW. A team with all this talent on offense CANT possibly have this much bad luck, can they?
Somethings gotta give. But if it doesnt then im counting on 2008 to be better than the past two seasons.
Really looking back, i agree with earlier posts. This team always seems to find a different way to loose games.
This has got to be the BUFFALO BILLS of baseball, never have i seen a franchise with as much talent over this much time span UNDERACHIEVE as much as this organization. And i know someones going to say, “but the BILLS didnt win, at least the BRAVES won one” and my reply…precisely…MY POINT. (One WS title!)
We will never win anything again with Bobby Cox. I understand that the players are at fault too, but you have to look at games that should have been won win the obvious buttons should have been pushed but werent over the years. And this year alone you are looking at anywhere between 5 to 15 games easy!
It just amazes me that MANAGEMENT CANNOT see what everybody in America or ALL Braves fans can see:
Anyway, i got my sights set on 2008 cause believe it or not, accept it or not…2006 and 2007 have been rebuilding years. Lets just hope that Mike Hampton comes back strong and we sign a quality starter along with James getting better. Then i like the Braves chances, but as of now…the soup is in the bowl and someones gotta eat it.
By steve
August 24, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
I’ve been on here razzing the brave fans about their team and my Mets and after last night’s games I have come to the conclusion that both of our teams really really suck!
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Morning Lew, how’s the weather up there? It is literally as hot as hell down here.
If you get a chance, send me some very elementary draw-by-numbers pictures and I’ll draw the Coach a picture.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Coach-We await your profound wisdom. Please, we must turn back the Mets’ forces of Darkness and their unholy minions Anders, The Drooling Fool and NoBrainZone. Please. We need your knowledge. We sicken Anders and NoBrainZone awaits our abject humiliation. We feel their presence, Oh so closely and fear for our very baseball survival. Please, Oh Coach. Show us the truth and way to better our pitching. Please, we must play at .700 and do it soon. Please. Please. We await this boon. Our very baseball lives and those of the Braves’ front office hinge on your benevolence. Your store of knowledge is huge and we merely sit cringing at your feet, in your awesome presence, hoping for crumbs of baseball nourishment. Your knuckle draggers must be educated. We await.
By KC
August 24, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
BELIEVE IT OR NOT… THERE’S A LIGHT AT THE END OF THIS TUNNEL.
Some of you who have blogged with me here over the past couple of years have come to count on me for a little optimism when it’s need most, and I don’t want to let you down. =) While I have no intention of blowing smoke, enough attention has been given to the Braves’ shortcomings… and I want to take this opportunity to explain why the Braves’ playoff hopes for 2007 are still alive and well.
What will it take to play in October? We all know the answer. While no less true than it was weeks (or months) ago, it’s beginning to sound hackneyed… We NEED someone to step up from the back end of the rotation! Will that happen?
I would submit to you that someone already is stepping up back there… Lance Cormier.
He pitched fairly well on Wednesday, I thought. 3 earned runs over 5 innings is not bad at all in that ballpark. And in his previous start, he pitched extremely well into the 8th inning. Yeah, his last 2 starts results in an “L”, but that’s not Cormier’s fault. The Braves have managed a grand total of 2 runs over his last couple starts.
The jury’s still out on Cormier, but given the way he’s pitched over his last couple of starts, and the way he pitched last September (as well as this spring) in the rotation… there’s definite cause for optimism there. We can’t predict the future, but let’s say Cormier continues to pitch well. We still need at least one more guy to go out there and at least give us a chance to win…
Chuck James is our guy.
Sure, he doesn’t give you as many innings as you’d like, but he’s still a quality starter. Let’s keep in mind that prior to his last few starts (in which his arm apparently was not at 100%), he posted a 2.48 ERA for the month of July. And 4 starts ago, he boasted a 3.55 ERA, which placed him among the top-15 NL starters in that category. And we know it was no fluke, because he pitched at least as well last season for us.
Personally, I’m relieved that Chuck James is on the DL. It’s good to know that there was a legitimate reason for his recent struggles. The inflammation James’ has been experiencing in his shoulder is usually effectively treated with nothing more than a little rest. If he can come back with that arm feeling stronger, that will be huge for the Braves.
Will Lance Cormier continue to be a solid back-end starter? Will Chuck James come back and pitch much better than he did over his last few (pre-DL) starts?
Again, can’t predict the future, but in both cases… I believe the answer is “yes”. And if it is, that should be enough to carry the Braves to the post-season.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this
Efrim,
I’m not sure what they can or would get. I just don’t see why they wouldn’t at least entertain trading Renteria.
I’m just replying to you saying “I don’t want to hear people saying Edgar will be traded.” Well, he could very well be.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this
No Chop Zone, its not that kind of day. I haven’t faded anywhere and I’m sure the same can be said for Lew. Now, if I were you I wouldn’t be too happy. Didn’t your lights out closer blow a save last night? Its after 10 o’clock and the lunch crowd will be there in less than hour. Get back to work. Those hushpuppies won’t cook themselves.
By Chop Chop
August 24, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
Lew,
Coach has the entire series of Tom Emanski’s instructional videos. That’s right, Lew. The same tested under fire techniques used by Baseball World’s back to back to back AAU National Championship teams! If you act now, you can get the “Manager’s Special”, which includes all 9 DVDs for only $199.99, a savings of $70! This is why Robert is always hounding Bobby Cox. This is the linchpin for future World Series championships, Lew! You’re just too blind to see it!!!!!
Cough, cough.
By Mrs. Howell
August 24, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this
Absolutely a very disparaging and uncalled for comment by this pig that calls himself Robert!
Should be banished from this blog for making shameful remarks such as that contained in his 9:56 A.M.!
Lovie..
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this
Robert(JITB) Right on!!
By bill
August 24, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this
I’m not a BANDWAGON Brave. I have been supporting these guys for over 40yrs. with my hard earned money and will continue to support them. Something is all wrong in this organization. As I said they need to make changes, starting at the top. JS and BC have done all they can do. They need to move on. Pitching is the problem in this organization.
By Colin
August 24, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
Can someone tell me what happened last night because i went to sleep because i had practice at 8…I was up till the 11th watching it on MLB TV…I got Wickman blew it but where there chances to win?
By Rodger
August 24, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this
Jumping in late-has Dunn’s blast come down yet?
It doesn’t seem to matter what starter we trot out after Huddy & Smoltz, they just don’t have it. I wonder how my son’s T-ball team would fare against them?
Either Smoltz & Hudson need to pitch on 2 days rest, Frenchy & Escobar learn to pitch, or we can sign up for Chipper’s October hunting trip.
By GM
August 24, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this
Coach, the day shift is listening, how do you propose to “fix” the Braves pitching woes???
Didn’t think so!
KC, the only reason that you are correct in your statement that, “the Braves’ playoff hopes for 2007 are still alive and well.” is that they haven’t been mathematically eliminated ‘yet’, and that light at the end of the tunnel is a train!
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
STRETCH,
Not saying Braves management is perfect but geez.
Wickman was a solid pitcher all of last season. And he’s been decent this year.
Yes, this is the one point where you are probably correct. Although how was anyone to know, based on his track record, he would struggle all season.
Diaz was in a platoon with Willie Harris. Both guys have been very good.
Have you looked at Wells’s numbers? You’d be hard pressed to find another guy allowed to start 22 games who’s been as bad as he has been.
Don’t know how to play small ball and that has cost the Braves games? They are third in the league in scoring. There OPS is right up there with any team in the league. How has anything they’ve done offensively cost the Braves games?
Scott Thorman is out of options. They had to make a choice—either try to get Thorman through waivers and risk losing a guy who could still develop into a fairly productive major leaguer (and a guy who can play the outfield and first) or send down Franco, who they knew was going to get through waivers and can only play one position.
By gilligan
August 24, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this
Robert Please keep my alleged in-the-past-dallying to yourself. And, in your case, one does not lick ‘n’ tell.
By Colin
August 24, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
Were the Tigers of the NL…have the talent but underachieving considerably
By ebineezer
August 24, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
Wickman is a percentage closer. He never comes in with runners on base, he almost always starts an inning. If he can hold the league to under .330 avg against him he will be successful, meaning he will save enough games to “seem” effective. Wickman puts baserunners on and it is just a matter of time that it catches up with him. Given the opportunity, anybody in the Braves bullpen could be as “successful” as Wickman.
Why is Andrew not batting 8th? He is hitting 75 points lower than any of the other starters. If Bobby has to play him, put him at the bottom of the order.
Bringing in players that can not hit to pinch hit is just plain stupid. The game is on the line, and the Braves need a pinch hitter. Lets see, Diaze or Thorman, Woodward, etc…which one is the best hitter…unbelievable.
It would have been nice to have been able to bring Will Startup up to do some pitching…
The old saying goes something like insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
By Renegator
August 24, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this
It’s time for this team to go in a different direction. I appreciate everything Bobby has done for this team - but it is time for him to move on. The players are too complacent and they cannot execute the fundamentals. It’s time to get a manager that holds his players acountable. It absolutely unacceptable for this team to play the way they are playing with the talent they have on the roster.
If you don’t have coaches in the minors teaching players how to bunt - its time to fire those coaches and get in someone who will. We need someone in the minors that can develop good pitching as well. We have been unable to develop at top of the rotation pitcher in 15 years. I mean, come on.
The players are too complacent, the manager is too complacent - it’s time for a new regime for the Atlanta Braves. Bobby has been great - but it is time for some new blood in the clubhouse.
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this
Scott Thorman is out of options.
Shaun Have you cleared that statement with Coach(I’m right even though I can’t remember when)?
By Will
August 24, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
man what a brutal, rollercoaster of a loss last night. After Yates got out of that jam i was hoping it was the Braves night. Losing 3 out of 4 to anybody, let alone the Reds is unacceptable. Will continue to root/watch every night, but I get the distinct feeling these guys are rolling over. I dont care how many games they are out of the wild card right now they are not a playoff team. This is no knee jerk reaction, this team has sucked since the all star break and that was 6 weeks ago. I will give Bobby Cox all the credit in the world he is trying anything he can and obviously hit his breaking point last night. I do not blame him.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
Renegator,
Braves are basically playing like they should, based on their talent. Look at any pre-season projections and you’ll basically find that the Braves are doing what they should be doing.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
Oh, The Humanity. Blind!!!!!Blind and and idiot as well. There is no hope. It will all be over soon. Coach has foresaken we knuckle draggers. Oh Moan. Oh, wail. I wring my hands. I gnash my teeth. I curse and swear profanely. But wait. Perhaps Coach is in a meeting counseling John Schuerholz and imparting the wisdom to win at a .700 clip the remainder of the season. Perhaps he is even now, selling his videos and DVD’s to the pseudo GM. Perhaps he teaches his profound wisdom to the BRAVES’ knuckle draggers. Hope springs eternal. Doom and gloom may yet be averted. Yes, the faintest glimmer glows in the darkness. Coach’s beacon is mighty, indeed. We may yet foil the evil NoBrainZone and his minister of Darkness, The Drooling Fool. Anders may yet be held at bay. If only Coach deigns his knowledge to be known. Can Savannah Guy afford to buy the DVD’s? Must we take up a collection so we may be saved? Enquiring minds must know. The fate of the Wurlitzer lovers awaits his largesse. ChopChop-Please be our ambassador. We implore you to seek Coach and convince him to tell us the secret. Steal the DVD’s if you must. We will take up a collection for your bail (or we’ll just get the Fabled Grinch to break you out? He did steal Christmas, after all-a jail should be no problem).
By KC
August 24, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this
Another thing on the Chuck James topic…
Many are convinced that Chuck James can’t help us much because he’s only a 5-6 inning pitcher. They’re wrong.
The disappointing part about this shoulder issue popping up when it did is that Chuck was really on a roll, and had regained his form from last year.
Heading into his last 4 starts (when his shoulder started bothering him)… Chuck was coming off a 5 start stretch (6/29–7/25) in which he averaged over 6 innings per start, and posted a 1.47 ERA.
Let’s say James comes off the DL feeling stronger, and pitches more like he did last month. Will 5-6 innings per start be enough? Yes. This bullpen has certainly been overworked, but it’s about to add a lot more depth.
On September 1st when the rosters expand, no team in the East (or possibly the league) stands to improve its bullpen from within as much as the Braves.
Here’s what’s on the way:
Chad Paronto: Before being sent down to make room for Dotel (there was no other reason), Paronto was pitching extremely well. He posted a June/July ERA of 1.05 over 26 innings… and had a solid season ERA of 3.57 his temporary Richmond assignment.
Royce Ring: Is a situational lefty who did a good job for San Diego before JS traded for him for the sole purpose of having him available in September.
Jose Ascanio: He’s pitched 5 games for Atlanta this year… 7 innings: 8 strikeouts, and a 1.29 ERA.
Joey Devine: He’s thrown 4 innings for the big club this year and looked good, allowing only one run. And he’s been making AA & AAA hitters his women all year.
Manny Acosta is already here, and looked damn good last night.
So, with this bullpen depth and this offense, if any of our starters not named Smoltz or Hudson can give us 5/6 innings of 2 or 3 run baseball… that should absolutely be enough. If I’m guessing… I think Cormier and James (when he returns) will give us that 4 or 5 times each in September, which is why I still think the team will make the playoffs.
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 24, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
I’m the damned SouthernJackAss…so TheJackAss says exactly what TheJackAss feels like saying…it’s time for fresh blood, and fresh ideas at the Braves’ helm…Bobby Cox may be a H.O.F. manager, so maybe he should just go sit in the hall, and take it easy now…and take Schuerholz with him…sheep simply follow the shepherd’s lead…and Cox has made quite a few dunderheaded moves over the last few seasons…Cox and Schuerholz have had their “heydays”…but now that, along with the streak, are now over…it’s time to change things up a bit…or accept more of the same…
By STRETCH
August 24, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
Shaun thanks for clearing up a couple of things for me, but im still not sold on Wickman. I mean have you looked at him lately? He’s totally out of playing shape.
If they learned how to bunt every now and then, their would be 2nd or higher in scoring in the league.
Im currently living in Pensacola and im driving up this weekend to see them play. Just hope they can turn things around and i believe it can be done. Just seems like they keep slapping us all in the face with their play this season.
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
On a different subject—football. Can you believe that they are going to open the high school season tonight in Tenn-us-see? The temperature today is supposed to hit 103%. That is something like 7 straight days that it has been over 100. I think there is a good chance that there will be—something “new’ for me—games called because of heat. I’ve had times when I dreamed of being able to “suit-up” once again, but tonight is not going to be one of them.
By Efrim
August 24, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
“It’s just the way it’s been,” Jones said. “We just can’t get outs when we need them consistently enough. When we need offense, that dries up. We can’t execute a pitcher covering first [base]. It’s one thing after another. It’s just frustrating.”
Yes it is. We are now trying to catch up to a Mets team that we trail by 7 games in the loss column.
We are now fourth in the Wild Card race. 4 games back in the loss column from the leader.
34 games to play and I really don’t think 20-14 is going to get it done.
Are you people really going to hope that the Padres play .500 baseball for the rest of the season?
What about the Mets? I mean they would have to collapse to lose this division.
I don’t blame BC for any of it. He is trying his best to motivate this team, but there is nothing that he can do. Francouer had about as bad a 3 games as you could have. His average has dropped to .299 and his OPS has gone under .800 for the first time in a while.
By Devine's Women
August 24, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
KC is right, Joey has been a real good all year!
By Marcus Vick
August 24, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
Would ya’ll quit doggin’ my big brother?
By Renegator
August 24, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this
Shaun:
I know you love to argue but the preseason projections don’t take into account the fact that the Braves traded for Tex at the deadline. All the talking heads at ESPN and everyone on this blog stated the Braves are now the best offense in the NL and the favorites to win the East or at least the Wild Card. And all they’ve done since the deadline is under achieve.
I know you are still going to argue but surely you see that this team is underachieving.
By Efrim
August 24, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this
KC
34 games left. What do you expect their record to be at the end?
86-76?
87-75?
88-74?
89-73?
90-72?
By Pluto
August 24, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
Mar-cus Vick What did you and your brother do for fun when you were “kids”? Choke the family pooch?
By Ladies Choice
August 24, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
My life will still be great if they make the playoffs or not. I am just a positive type person.
By dlh2344
August 24, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
Playoffs or no playoffs. Top two coaches being thrown out of the game or not. Last night’s loss can be blamed on whoever was left on the bench calling the shots. EXTREMELY poor management. Wickman should never have been brought in the game. He is to be used in one situation. Brought in to start an inning with a lead and a chance to save. He is useless in any other situation. Now there would obviously be an exception if he was the last pitcher available in an extra inning game, but he wasn’t. Villareal was still available in the pen, who also would’ve been able to go more than one inning had the game continued. Also, why wasn’t Acosta left in for more than one inning, especially as strong as he looked?
But what really blew my mind was this. WHY WASN’T ADAM DUNN INTENTIONALLY WALKED? If me as an armchair coach along with all of my friends that I’ve talked with this morning are all asking this same question, then surely any coach on a professional coaching staff should have realized this as well. Here’s why. Yes walking him would’ve put the winning run in scoring position. But Phillips was probably gonna be trying to steal 2nd anyway to get into scoring position and avoid the double play possibility. Had they walked Dunn, they avoid the home run hitter and the runner on base wouldn’t have mattered anyway, if he homered the game is over either way. Instead they would have had a slower runner on 1st (instead of Phillips going 1st to 2nd who may have been hard to double up on a slow grounder) and a slow runner coming up to bat in Hatteberg and probably a very good chance at turning a double play to get out of the inning.
Oh well, you just knew after Wickman botched that out play at first that it was gonna go bad. I am getting the vibe now that this just isn’t our year. I agree with someone, I believe the Scribe’s assessment above that our bullpen isn’t the problem. I believe we have a talented bullpen. I just believe it has very much been mismanaged throughout the season. And there’s no question they are worn out given the poor state of 60% of the starting rotation. The good news is we are better than last year and have made steps in the right direction. We are set up good for next season if we can just fill a couple of holes, like adding a good starter and getting back a healthy Mike Gonzalez.
By KC
August 24, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
EFRIM: As for next season…
Not counting on Glavine next year. I just think there’s a strong possibility.
I’m not going to spend too much time talking about next year, because there will be plenty time to do so over the winter, but…
Hampton’s pay is nothing new. They had that in the budget this year already, so nothing changes there.
The new payroll considerations will be Tex, and pay increases due to Smotlz and Hudson.
I’m reasonably convinced that Andruw, Wickman, and Renteria will all be gone. That’s 26 million that’ll be gone… so that will take care of Tex, Smoltz, and Hudson. Now we’re pretty much on budget… IF that budget is 80-83 million.
BUT, I absolutely do NOT believe this payroll will remain static.
Liberty Media has already stated that Braves President, Terry McGuirk , would have the freedom to expand the payroll. And these moves that were made at the deadline probably don’t happen under Time Warner.
So if the payroll is closer to 90 (as I believe it will be), then there is room to give Glavine a one-year 8 million dollar deal.
By Will
August 24, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
Reading some of these posts about Scott Thorman being out of options (which has been posted on here for weeks) Who gives a S** if he his out of options he is a god awful baseball player. I turned to my buddies at the bar last night the second i saw him up there pinch hitting and said he is gonna hit into a double play. He sucks! Scott Thorman SUCKS!!! Who freaking cares if he is out of options.
By BamaBrave
August 24, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
If you think you sense dread and disappointment in the ol blog today, wait until Smoltz loses tonight…or Hudson tomorrow. We’ll have a suicide watch throughout the Braves Nation!!
By Jim Mora the elder
August 24, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
.500 BALL?! .500 BALL?! This team couldn’t play .500 “Go Fish”!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
Efrim, I have to respectfully disgree with you about Cox doing all he can do to motivate this team. I don’t think he has done anything really. Sitting in the dugout cheering the guys on like some sugary little mom is not motivating. Saying crap like, “We’ll get ‘em tomorrow,” is not motivation. Sooner or later there will be no tomorrow. This team needs what the Cubs received and this is a kick in their butts. Sweet Lou isn’t afraid to call out some guys and demand the best play possible. Granted, Pinella’s act can grow tiresome but it is also effective.
But, as I said earlier, I think the so-called veteran leadership on this team needs to step up. If this team had the intensity of Smoltz, crap like the last three days wouldn’t happen. Smoltz demands the best out of himself. The very best. Do you guys really think all 24 of the other guys and their manager does the same? If they do, they stink at it because the results on the field don’t reflect it.
By Efrim
August 24, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
Granted, Pinella’s act can grow tiresome but it is also effective.
I’ll take BC’s positivity over Piniella or Ozzie Guillen. Those two sicken me.
By Braveheart
August 24, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
Yes, the Christmas Stealer has been known to break many a denizen out of the DOB & blog doghouse.
By Will
August 24, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
This team is not a good baseball team. They are a .500 team. It is not Bobby Cox’s fault. As i have said before he does not start his real managerial messes until October. It does not matter what choice he makes right now it is not gonna work. I agree about Pinella and Guillen, screw both those guys, especially Ozzie’s “i tell it like it is” BS! He will be in the unemployment line soon enough.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this
Efrim, more often than not I would take Cox’s positivity over ranting and raving but sometimes ranting and raving is what is needed. All I can say is look at the Cubs. Sweet Lou stayed calm and watched his team underachieve day after day. He goes off and the team goes with him…..on a huge winning stretch.
By Salty
August 24, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
Lew profound wisdom? Geez…whose definition of profound are you using…for that matter, whose definition of wisdom? Psss…by the way, a little secret…I think he’s at his interview right now. ;-)
Wayne You know the folks you like to engage…just scroll through the rest. With any fortune whatsoever, the negative nellies will tire of banging their heads against the wall trying to knock the last of the luster off our optimism. Like (I believe) you said, you love baseball for what it is…winning is a bonus (I know Bob, J said same). Well…consider the ‘friends’ you’ve met on this blog as a similar bonus…don’t give it up…otherwise, the dark side wins.
Bob, J On the mark with perception!
KC You keep it up…no one accomplished a bloody thing listening to the masses say ‘quit’!
By 1957 Braves Fan
August 24, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
Sure we score a lot of runs. We score bunches in blow outs. But when we need one run to win we come up empty.
By Will
August 24, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
Robert, How good a job is Pinella really doing? Last time i checked this underacheiving mess we watch every night would STILL be leading the NL Central.
By 22oz
August 24, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
KC, I’m with you on the callups. Its gonna give a big boost to this team. We’ll have more pinch hitting options, and more bullpen options, as well as a third catcher. I do believe one more thing has to happen in addition to these things: Matt Diaz needs to be starting more, enough of this platoon junk, you play your hot hand in crunh time, and giving Matty one at bat per game is ridiculous. I’m gonna make that wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first, as we all know Cox.
Here’s hoping we’re still in the race by next Saturday!
By TennesseePaul
August 24, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
I love it. KC is back in full form. Incredible!
Payne: Sorry I wasn’t responding to that Diego/hitting machine argument. I’m in the process of rebuilding my digital music library. I can only watch the game, blog sarcasm and type in liner notes for 1,000 albums. I can’t really squeeze in detailed analysis of the San Diego Padres.
I will say this though, I picked them to win the West and I think they will. The D-Backs are a solid team, but I think the Padres will be able to maintain their playing level and take the division.
As for the Braves… I should have known things wouldn’t turn out right when Redman was signed. That guy is a plague. Ron Roberts, Coach, Robert, N8, you can point to managers, Reds games, heresay on JS trades or whathaveyou… I blame Redman. He is a mutating virus that you just can’t get rid of in one season. It takes a good long off season plus half a season to remove his slink and slime from the team. His spirit of suckitude has been hovering around the locker room creeping into the pours of individual players and pulling them down in to the southpaw soft tosser retread hell of his basement. By next Spring the team should be cured of his repugnance. At that time the cloud will lift and the team will play better.
Yeah, I know what yall will say, the team was winning when he was here. Well, Redman has a delay effect, like a common cold. You catch him, he incubates, then a little while later you’re sick with this bug that seems to never go away. AJ apparently caught it real early and has been struggling with it all season. Tragic really, but brighter days are ahead… they have to be.
Now, as for this Reds series. The only game I would have “given” as a loss was the JoJo game. Going into it I didn’t have high hopes. JoJo is an infant among men and he gets treated as such. He simply is not a Major League pitcher. But his option clock is started so he will be shipped to and fro until he is utterly useless and we trade him to Dayton for some reliever rental. Lance and Buddy… I had hoped that our offense could make up for whatever short comings they brought to the table. Lance pitched the only low scoring game in the series, matching Hudsons start output… ie, 4 runs allowed by the Braves. The offense dried up that night though. Buddy… Buddy is starting to fall apart. Roger had that guy going for a good while. It’s a shame he can’t keep it together for longer.
Next year though, we get Hampton back, and that’s like picking up a free agent Ace right there! =)
By Tim MaCarver
August 24, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
What the Braves need for next year is:
Greg(Mad Dog)Maddox — Manager
Mike(Bad!Dog)Vick — Bench Coach
Joe(Down!Dog)Morgan —- Hitting Coach
Jim(HotDog)Bouton —- Pitching Coach
“Coach”(Dumb Dog)??? —- GM
Then they would have a doggone good team. More at 10!
By KC
August 24, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this
Efrim: IF (and only if) James’ arm is right when he comes off the DL… my guess would be that the Braves will win at least 86 or 87 games.
As it looks right now, Smoltz and Hudson will start 14 of the Braves remaining 34 games. Let’s say the Braves win 10 of those Smotlz/Hudson games (sounds about right, doesn’t it?)…
If the Braves can play .500 or a hair above 500 in the other 20 games, that should get their season win total up into the high 80’s, which will give them an excellent shot at the Wild Card.
The games remaining against NY and Phili don’t scare me too much because… If the rotations hold, Smotlz and Hudson will start 4 of our 6 remaining games against the Phillies, and 3 of 6 against the Mets.
In fact, I look at those head-2-head games against the Phillies as a great opportunity to knock them out of the Wild Card picture (or at least put some distance there).
But again… everything I just said depends on Chuck James. He’s got to be healthy, and his arm’s got to be right. What we saw before he was DL’d won’t help us.
But if James and Cormier can go out most nights and give us at least 5/6 innings of 2 or 3 run baseball… with this offense and the depth that will soon be added to the pen… that ought to keep us at or over .500 in non-Smoltz/Hudson starts.
Not sure what to make of Carlyle. I’m hoping he can recapture what he had through most of July, but I just don’t know what to expect there. James and Cormier are the guys I’m looking toward.
By Efrim
August 24, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this
Robert (JITB),
I have been blogging here since January. The thing I see most is people go crazy when a player has a good stretch run like a Buddy Carlyle. The thing that people have to remember is that he is a journeyman starter. He will be figured out sooner rather than later.
Just trying to let you understand what Bobby Cox has to work with. I do believe that this team is talented enough, but when Chuck James, Buddy Carlyle and Lance Cormier are your #3-#5 starters, it really doesn;t leave much room for error for the rest of your team.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
Will, I think saying this team is not a good baseball team is too simplistic. Why is not a good baseball team? The Braves have great talent at every position on the field. They have the best 1-2 punch in the starting rotation this side of the Boston Red Sox. While the backend of the rotation isn’t that good, it isn’t that bad compared to the rest of the NL. The only bad part of this team is the bench. But, whose fault is it that Chris Woodward and Scott Thorman are on that bench? What other manager in their right mind would think that Chris Woodward deserves a spot on their team.
This team isn’t playing to their talent level much like the Dodgers. The question is: why?
By DAP
August 24, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
i refuse to allow this team to stress me out anymore. they havent shown me anything to think they can get a playoff spot, so i no longer have my heart set on it (which i definetly have for a while. i SINCERLY thought they would be world series winners)
i will enjoy watching games, and i hope they make it to the playoffs, but until they do, i will not expect it.
i am gonna be cheering for hudson to win the cy young, and that will be what i get emotional about from now on.
(i say all this knowing that there is no way to emotionally detach myself from the braves, and will still do my best to will them into the postseason, probably giving my self a heart attack in the process)
By Braveheart
August 24, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Each season is basically determined like anything in economics - time, labor, and monetary resources. When the time and labor resources were plentiful, the money was not. When the monetary resources were plentiful, the time and labor resources available were not.
The problem with this team is not Bobby Cox or Sir John. The problem is/was AOL/TW. Their financial handcuffs left little margin for error for the Braves.
The Braves were left with no wiggle room if Hampton, Gonzalez, Smoltz, Hudson, or James got hurt. We miraculously were granted a gift when the Braves were able to go 9-5 in Buddy’s first 14 starts. Without Buddy, we would not even be .500 right now.
If AOL/TW were still around, we probably would not even have Tex right now. By the time LM came aboard and freed up some money, it was too late to get any starting pitcher worth overpaying for. If LM could find extra money laying around, why couldn’t AOL/TW?
If our attendance has risen since the arrival of the Baby Braves of 2005 and new television/radio deals have been struck since that time, why was there not more money available from the beginning of the season to up the payroll to $100 mil or so?
I am not asking them to spend like morons like the New York teams do but $100 mil should have sufficed to give Cox and Sir John margin for error, especially when so much of the $80 mil was tied up in Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson.
Sir John did the best he could with the financial resources available to him and Cox has done the best he could with the labor resources provided to him.
Unfortunately, for Cox and Sir John, by the time adequate financial resources were provided, the amount of reasonably priced pitching labor resources were limited.
Unfortunately, for Cox and Sir John, by the time the adequate financial resources were provided, the amount of adequate labor resources in the market and the amount of time resources available to the team were running on empty.
Sir John did the best he could for this season and next by getting Tex.
The fault does not lie with Cox or Sir John. The fault lies with that crappy ownership group AOL/TW who labeled our beloved Braves The Discontinued Operations and Non-Core Assets of Atlanta.
But all the simpleton huckleberrys can keep blaming the GM, the manager, and the players for the mediocrity we are confronted with.
OR they can start pointing their fingers at AOL/TW like they should.
But, hey, managers, GMs, and players make convenient targets for the simple minded. So have at it I guess.
It is awfully hard to point fingers at a faceless corporation who refuse to provide a face for us to point a finger at and throw a pie in the face of!
And what kind of pie would we use? I’ll let JJS decide.
By KC
August 24, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Salty: Thanks dude. I’m always going to look for a reasonable scenario under which things can turn out well.
People often think I only see positive. Not so. It’s just that when I don’t see any hope, I prefer to think/talk about something else. If there’s hope, let’s point it out. If there’s no hope, then talking about it is just depressing. That’s my point of view.
Anyway, as I see it, hoping for Cormier and James (when he returns) to go out there and, more often than not, give you at least 5/6 innings of 2 or 3 run baseball… is very reasonable.
If Carlyle starts pitching better, that’s just icing on the cake if James and Cormier can give us 5/6 decent innings. With this offense and bullpe depth we’ll have in a week… that would do it. Go Braves!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
I don’t see myself as being a negative person or a “the sky is falling person”. I realize that some believe that any criticism of this team places one in that category. For those who are optimists I have this to say. I’m an optimist as well but I’m also a realist. I refuse to walk around talking about how great things are when they aren’t. You can call me a pessimist if you want. I call people who pretend that things are okay dillusional. Nobody believes more than me that this is a playoff team but I strongly question whether they will get there or not because of the way they are playing. Something isn’t clicking with this team and burying our head in the sand isn’t going to solve the problem.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 24, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
Or anyone else that says we cannot afford to trade Edgar in the offseason…Ok…so, what do you suggest we do to get a starting pitcher then?? There seems to be no real starters available this fall as F.A. Perhaps Carlos Silva??? Thats about it. So, we would have to trade for a starter then, correct? Are we going to trade Frency, McCann, Chipper, Tex??? No?? How about we trade Andruw last August then! ;)
I don’t even know if Edgar alone will get you a good #3 starter. And can we afford who will be traded? And who is left in the fairly barren Minors now that we are willing to trade away, anyway???
By Lew
August 24, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Salty-Dude, Perhaps your sense of cynical wit and subtle sarcasm is not as finely honed as my own? You would need to re-read all of Coaches (and My) posts from yesterday afternoon on. He claims he KNOWS the way to turn around the Braves season, making them play at a .700 clip the rest of the way, claiming the rest of us to be idiot knuckle draggers. Surely someone with this secret is profoundly wise, Would not one think so?
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
This blog has come full-circle to a flog the deceased equine extraordinary. I’m going out and paint my dog’s house and watch it dry.
By beachcomber
August 24, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
KC - Your 10:59 post. I really want to believe that! One keeps hoping that just one of the 3-4-5 guys would step up. So far, that hasn’t happened.
And what happens if Smoltz or Huddy, God forbid, hit a little bump in the road in the next couple weeks?
To quote an old friend and fellow Braves fan, “following the Braves pounds steel into the soul.”
By Will
August 24, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Robert, I have to disagree with your last post. Other then having a great “on paper” starting lineup, the Braves are not a very good baseball team in any other aspect. The bench and bullpen are struggling constantly. Not to mention they have a 2/5 good starting pitchers, that equals a p** poor starting rotation as a whole. Yeah there are injuries in the pitching staff, but they are part of the game and that changes nothing. If Bobby Cox needs a pinch hitter he can look up and down his bench and nobody he picks is gonna get it done. If he needs a bunt laid down nobody gets it done. Offense cant get a clutch hit, etc.. I could go on all day. What we watch everyday is a .500 baseball team, most braves fans are not used to that anytime recently and are having a hard time recognizing it.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Renegator,
You’re right, the pre-season projections probably didn’t take any trades into account. But how many wins is adding one player for two months worth? I mean, if it’s worth just one or two wins (and what he can provide next season), it was worth making the deal in my opinion; but any player for two months isn’t worth all that many extra wins.
By KC
August 24, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best):
No one’s pretending everything’s okay. Everything clearly is NOT okay.
Over the last 3 games, the Mets dropped 2 of 3, AND WE LOST A GAME IN THE #$%^& STANDINGS!!!!!
Unless we sweep the remaing 6 games of this roadtip (which I’m sure everyone will agree isn’t bloody likely)… the Braves have squandered a golden opportunity to make a run at this division while taking the Wild Card lead.
This sucks.
Smoltz and Hudson are up next, so we’ll probably win the next 2 games. Then what? I don’t know.
But as I’ve mentioned before, there is reason for hope.
While Carlyle’s sucked, Cormier’s actually been solid.
And James being on the DL is actually GOOD news. While he has his flaws, James has pitched anywhere near as bad as he has over his last few starts since he put on a Braves uniform. So I’m glad there’s an expanation.
If he comes back with a refreshed arm, and Cormier continues to pitch well… the Braves rotation will be just fine.
Those are ifs, but not at all farfetched ones. We’ll just have to wait and see.
But there’s no reason to abandon all hope at this point, as some (not you) seem to want to do.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Will, yes, the starting rotation as a whole isn’t good but what team does have one? The Red Sox, Angels, Tigers, Indians, and Cubs. That is it. Every other team has holes in their rotation. The bullpen has been shaky but is that because of non-productive pitchers or fatigue. I say fatigue. The lineup is bettter than being “good on paper”. They are the third best offense in the league. The bench? That is an issue. Why is it an issue though? Why is Chris Woodward here? I’ll tell you why. Because of Cox. They can’t lay bunts down. Why? Because Cox doesn’t believe in them. He is always playing for the three run homer. The reason they can’t get a clutch hit is because the hitters are encouraged to go up to the plate swiniging for the fences.
I’m not here to bash Cox but facts are facts. And, if Cox isn’t instructing these guys to always swing for the fences, then why aren’t they called out for doing it? Why aren’t they bencched. What? Every single player is hardheaded and doing whatever they want. C’mon. You don’t believe that. Nobdody in their right mind believes that. The players should be held accountable but so should their manager.
I know this. If Cox called JS right now and told him that he wanted Woodward gone, he would be gone 10 minutes later!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
I agree with you, Shaun. The Teixeira trade isn’t the problem with this team. Attitude is!
By Renegator
August 24, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
What is everyone’s prediction for number of Braves wins at the end of the year? I’m going to say 85. I really want to say 84 but I’m hoping they can win 85.
By KC
August 24, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
beachcomber: “One keeps hoping that just one of the 3-4-5 guys would step up. So far, that hasn’t happened.”
Well, you’re correct… and incorrect.
Obviously the backend of the rotation as a whole has been horrendous this month.
However, Chuck James WAS stepping up before this shoulder issue popped up. Again, he posted a 2.48 ERA for the month of July.
And Lance Cormier has actually pitched well over his last 2 starts, but the Braves have only scored a grand total of 2 runs between both of those games.
So if you’re a Braves fan, you want Cormier to keep doing what he’s doing… and you pray James’ arm is right when he comes off the DL and makes his next start (presumably next Sat. against the Mets).
“And what happens if Smoltz or Huddy, God forbid, hit a little bump in the road in the next couple weeks? “
You’re absolutely right. Virtually no margin for error for Smoltz or Hudson with James on the DL and Carlyle getting knocked around.
By DAP
August 24, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
on trading renteria i will be sad to see him go, but i think he will be traded, and for what? i think renteria and prado will be traded in the offseason for prospects. yeah, maybe im stupid, but i think the braves will trade for pitching prospects, especially after the trades they made this july. because of the high price for major league starters as free agents, and the minor league prospect we have traded recently, this is the best thing the braves can do. get some guys and try to develop them. we may get a bullpen arm we can use in ‘08.
the braves will try to win with the starters they have. 1. hudson, 2. smoltz, 3. james 4. hampton 5. cormier (jojo will get a chance if one of these guys doesnt pan out)
AARON ROWAND FOR CENTER! i think he would be a great option for the braves. their lineup would look like:
1.escobar
2.johnson
3.chipper
4.tex
5.rowand
6.mccann
7.frenchy
our bullpen pen will be Acosta, yates, villareal, moylan, paronto, devine, and soriano will close.
the bench will be diaz, thorman, pena, lillibridge, and miller(or some other random back-up C)
thats what i think anyways….any money the praves spend in the offseason will be on a center fielder, and a closer. we will have to get a starter the hard way: develop one.
By Will
August 24, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
Some of this optimism is getting to me. If us fans can just “will” enough positive energy towards the Braves here are my predictions for the last 5-6 weeks:
1) Buddy Carlysle goes 6-0, 1.52 ERA and 2 complete games. Jo Jo Reyes pitches a no-hitter, Peter Moylan pitches 47 straight days.
2) Bob Wickman actually records a 1-2-3 inning AND a save on the road
3) Chipper Jones goes on the DL by breaking his right hand on a routine strikeout swing.
4) Mark Texieria homers in 12 straight games (all wins)
5) The Mets never win another game the rest of the season and the surging Braves overtake them and win the East by 3 games.
6) Braves sweep through the playoffs 11-0 and win the World Series.
folks this is gonna happen, we just need to stay positive. no more “doom and gloom”.
By Crazy Brave
August 24, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
This team should be horse-whipped like the scandals they are and then made to sleep on the field overnight until they win a game. No excuse for this type of girls (no offense Ms Rogers) play.
By Braveheart
August 24, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Hopefully, this is just a pitching slump as horrendous as our hitting slump in June where we were shut out like 5 games in a row. The hitting bounced back real well after that. Hopefully, the same will be true with the pitching. Hopefully, James will just get the rest he needs and come back a gangbuster when he returns. Hopefully, Buddy will speak with the Devil about not revoking the contract Buddy signed with Lucifer before the season started. Hopefully, Cormier will be mediocre enough to get us a few Ws. Hopefully, Hudson can keep going undefeated. Hopefully, JoJo will be sent packing until next year. That kid just ain’t ready yet. Hopefully, the tiger that is John Smoltz will keep being John Smoltz but our offense will actually score for him.
OSCAR VILLAREAL NEEDS TO GET A START OR TWO ALREADY! He can’t be any worse.
By Salty
August 24, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
Lew Oh, I read ‘em! Profoundly wise…yep, he certainly thinks so! It does beg the question though: why would one possessive of such brilliance and insight mingle with us of such mental deficiency!?! Why run in the company of knuckledraggers? Was something withheld at birth?
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
KC, I agree with you to some extent. I think James has pitched well this year, but his inability to go beyond six innings has taxed this bullpen. I think Cormier has pitched very well in his three starts. I think to lay all the problems down at the feet of the pitching staff is somewhat of a copout. I think other issues are at hand. Like I said, this team doesn’t have the fire and intensity it needs.
This “professional” attitude has gone a bit too far. These guys are to uptight. The fact this team doesn’t score runs with base loaded and less than two outs is troubling at best. This team’s inability to lay down bunts is bothersome. This ho-hum attitude about losses is the most disturbing thing of all.
The problem is not only physical but mental. Now, what can be done about it.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
Robert (Justice is the Best),
If attitude is the problem, why do they have the right attitude to be a pretty good team but not a great team? If attitude was the problem, wouldn’t they be at least under .500?
By Vonshawn
August 24, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
Denizens, the Braves have been given every chance to succeed the last couple of weeks, and have failed miserably. A four game set with Cincinatti, while the Mets played San Diego and the Phillies facing the Dodgers, and what do they do? Lose three out of four.
Home games versus Arizona - and they get beat down losing two of three. Lose the final game of a potential sweep of the Giants, without Barry Bonds in the lineup!! Lose two of three to the Phillies. Have lost six of seven games versus the Reds - the Reds!!
Come on people, let’s just face facts here, this team has serious talent on the offensive side of the ball, but cannot and will not pitch well enough to get to the postseason.
Bobby will continue to ride Wickman, (honestly with how inconsistent everyone in the bullpen is, he may not have a choice here). And Wick will continue to blow games.
The backend of the rotation will continue to believe the headlines and at the first sign of stormy in a game will succomb to the pressure (see last night) and give up a big inning.
The team will fight back (it’s nice to finally see this), but in the end will lose. I don’t care about the PC things they say in the newspaper, the stars on this team have to be downright p** and disheartened with the current state of the pitching staff.
And to make matters worse, watch Smoltz get shelled tonight by the Cardinals. And then you’re really
Final record? Somewhere around 81-81; maybe 82-80 - third place in the East and an afterthought in the Wildcard race.
By KC
August 24, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best)
“Will, I think saying this team is not a good baseball team is too simplistic. Why is not a good baseball team? The Braves have great talent at every position on the field.”
I agree. If there’s a hole in a boat, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad boat. It may be start of the art with all the amenities in the world, but it won’t do a damn bit of good until you plug the hole.
That’s exactly where the Braves are. It’s actually an excellent team, but there’s a hole, and they’re taking on water.
As I’ve said several times today, if Cormier keeps up the good work, and we can get James healthy and right… I think that’ll plug the hole.
By matt
August 24, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
Pitching is like defense, it wins championships. The Braves don’t have it!!! Anyone who thinks the Braves problems lie somewhere other than the back 3 in the rotation and in the bullpen (minus moylan) dosn’t know baseball. They won’t make the playoffs and it will because of their pitching! Trade Edgar in the offseason and get some pitching and use AJs money towards pitching, quality pitching (not Mark Redman and John Thompson types!!!!!)
PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING!!!!! YOU CAN’T WIN WITHOUT IT!!!!!!!!
By Lee In S. GA
August 24, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
I think it is an understatement to say the next 2 games with Smoltz and Hudson pitching may be the biggest ones of the year so far. If we win both, you still have to like their chances; anything less and you get the feeling this is not going to be the year.
By Will
August 24, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
KC, I have to disagree. Bravos have played .500 baseball for nearly 4 months straight! Its okay if the Braves are a mediocre baseball team. You cant win every single year. I just have no idea what we are waiting for this team to do. I have not liked their chances for awhile now, with the Tex trade i tried really hard for the last few weeks to think they are gonna turn it around. After this last series i am farily convinced they will not be getting to the playoffs. Hope i am wrong about this, but this is 4 months of fact we are dealing with here. Everytime has a losing streak here or there, but that is not what is going on right now. As i said earlier, this is what a mediocre baseball team looks like, we are just not used to seeing it.
By KC
August 24, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best):
I really don’t see any indication of a lack of heart. If anything, the team looks a bit deflated right now… but I don’t think that’s the same thing as lacking heart or fire.
What’s been happening with the back end of our rotation lately probably is taking a lot of wind out of the sails of the entire team… much as the bullpen did last year.
It’s frustrating when the offense goes out and scores 5 runs in the first few innings, but you still wind up losing 8-7 or something.
I respectfully disagree that this team is too “professional” and lacks fire. There’s a lot of new blood and youthful exuberance.
I don’t think there are any heart/fire issues here that NOT seeing 3 L’s between Smoltz and Hudson starts wouldn’t solve.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 24, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
You are absolutely right about TW/AOL being a big part of our problems right now. Once Hampton went down and Redman proved he couldn’t even be counted on to have a 5.00 ERA, we should have been able to do something, ANYTHING, but we didn’t/couldn’t. And now we are paying for it.
But, I think some blame still has to be passed along to J.S.(And a lot to Bobby, but I’m sure he will do the hard lifting for me, and prove himself addlepated during the Cards series! ;) )
I know he thought Tex was the right move(and having a big bat to replace Andruw for next year) but, how could he think we could get into the playoffs, then deep into the playoffs, with James, and Caryle as the 3, 4 guys???
My favorite example, Mark Buehrle, has 15 starts in which he has gone 7 or more innings(8 starts of 8 or more innings!) Can you imagine what a boon that would be for our pitching staff to have a guy go deep that many starts? Make Chucky the 4 guy, Buddy and/or Cormier #5 and look at how much better we look!
Tex has been better than advertised, yet we are a sub .500 right now with him playing!!! JS knows pitching is the name of the game, and since that trade was to win now, right now, I’d say we’d have been better off trading Salty, Elvis, and Harrison to the Chisox…..hindsight is always 20/20, but J.S. is paid the big bucks to see the big picture.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best) and KC,
“Good” is a relative term. There are 17 teams in baseball that have a worse record than the Braves. They are a good team if you think good teams are among the 13th best in baseball.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
Matt, I know baseball. Yes, the pitching is a huge part of the problem. However, you don’t think the Braves would have a few more wins if they could get a simple hit with the bases loaded? What about if Andruw could just hit his weight? What about all the rallies Andruw killed? What about the inability of the bench to produce late in games because it sucks! Yes, Matt, the backend of the rotation and the bullpen have blown some games. But, the Braves has three potential wins in games against the Mets, Reds, and Phillies but were unable to get them because they couldn’t get a hit with the bases loaded and less than two outs.
By Salty
August 24, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
OK, Will
Even I’m not going out on that limb! :-)
Besides, that’s more than needed to secure a playoff spot!!
By Renegator
August 24, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Shaun:
Of course you cannot quantify exactly how many more wins having a player like Teixeira will get you over the course of two months or even a year. But let me ask you this… If we had Teixiera from the beginning of the season do you think our pre-season projections would be higher or lower than the current ones you are referring to? I would say that we would have been projected to do better. Do you agree or disagree with that?
Now if you agree that we would have projected better with Teixiera in the line up - why are we playing worse baseball with him in the lineup (under .500) than we did without him this year (above .500)? I know the sample size is different. The only answer I can come up with is… under-achieving.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 24, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
Speaking to the attitude issue….Did you see the Braves play the Diamondbacks??? I’d say we have a bette offense than they do, just compare Batting averages! ;) Yet, which team played better? Did the little things better??? The Diamondbacks! And they are the “young” team(we are pretty young as well, but they are younger, less experienced)
Since they don’t have a whole lot of power, they know they have to move runners over, bunt, steal a base(much better sucessfull SB % than we have) get a sac fly, whathaveyou to drive in a run when they NEED a run. As others have said, we wait for the 3 run homer, and more often than not, we can’t do that late in games. They also appear to be hungrier and play with fire than our club…..
By journalist jimmy smith
August 24, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
baseball is very frustrating today. seems like the last few losses should have/could have been wins. win those games and the braves control the braves’ destiny. wicky looked like wicky was about to pass a quarter pounder with cheese last night. passed the game to the reds instead. and now, fresh peaches. journalist recommends everyone get some fresh peaches. crop just in. now, letwan is back and feeling good. should hear from letwan soon. anxious to re-establish with old blog buddies. said to say “hello” to ron roberts. the thanksgiving matter has been forgotten. now, jimmy smith must leave for a time. have a nice afternoon.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
the many thuds heard overnight in the ohio countryside can be directly attributed to the path of the braves charter on its way to st. louis. given sky diving lessons were willie 2 for his last 25 harris, buddy caryle, chris woodward,thor mighty god of thunder, and roger mcdowell. upon departing the plane bobby asked roger ”you did say you wera a pitching coach right”, to which roger responded “not bu i did stay in a holiday inn express last night.”
for the love of BOB GIBSON please knock down a hitter some time this season.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 24, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
By Robert(Justice Is The Best) August 24, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this Matt, I know baseball. Yes, the pitching is a huge part of the problem. However, you don’t think the Braves would have a few more wins if they could get a simple hit with the bases loaded? What about if Andruw could just hit his weight? What about all the rallies Andruw killed? What about the inability of the bench to produce late in games because it sucks! Yes, Matt, the backend of the rotation and the bullpen have blown some games. But, the Braves has three potential wins in games against the Mets, Reds, and Phillies but were unable to get them because they couldn’t get a hit with the bases loaded and less than two outs.
Robert(Justice Is The Best),
After I went off on our pitching, I still say your post above is dead on! How can you have the bases loaded and nobody out, what 3 times in a week and not have one of the first two hitters in each game hit a fly ball just 300 feet??? You don’t even need a hit, just a fly ball!!!! Playoff bound teams do the little things like that to win games. We seem to have many chances to win a game every single night, but can’t execute, for whatever reason.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 24, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
Robert….Yes the Mets closer blew a save last nite. However, they have wiggle room. The braves on the other hand are running out of time/games. I think your down to 33 games. When you’re 5 games up the pressure is definitly on the teams trying to catch us. Soon I will be vindicated and proven correct. The Mets are the better team and are headed to the dance. Your team on the other hand has proven that they’re not that good and will only be able to hear the music from the outdoor parking lot….Ta Ta
By Carroll Rogers
August 24, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
BravesDave, weren’t you the one asking for the Chipper quote?
“We just can’t get outs when we need them consistently enough,” Jones said. “When we need offense, that dries up. We can’t execute bunts. We can’t execute a pitcher covering first. It’s one thing after another. It’s frustrating.”
KC you’re making some good points about Chuck James, I think. If he was back to July form, Braves win three out of five, rather than two out of five. big difference.
By Chop Chop
August 24, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Coach keeps a room down at the Cornelia YMCA. It is there that I must go…and it is there that the Grail shall be found. Baseball Superstar Fred McGriff has endorsed the Grail. I shall wear an awkwardly-placed generic baseball cap on my head as a talisman. McGruff will be in my party. We cannot fail.
Fear not, denizens! Heed not your angstification! Our salvation is surely nigh, for the Grail shall set us free.
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
Just stopped in for a moment. The paint drying is going well, and interestingly. One comment though.
uga-brave I too, would like to see someone knocked down; but when you throw at theirs, they throw at yours. Would you like to see Tex or Chipper on the DL with a hand or wrist injury? You know they ain’t going to throw at AJ. Dammit!
Now, back to my day’s avocation.
By uga-brave
August 24, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
well it looks like francouer is slipping back into some old bad habits. he is starting to become pull happy again. granted, he has defintely improved this year just wish he could hone his eye at the plate. never seen a player swing at more unhitable pitches. he really should have about 100 rbi to this point.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
BERIGAN,
I don’t know if attitude has anything to do with it.
By Coach ( LEW , HERE IS YOUR A* , ENJOY
August 24, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
By Lew
February 27, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this
MetroDude-How can you seriously be optimistic with ElDuque, Jorge Sosa, Oliver Perez and Chan Ho Park? Dude-you’re an all right guy, but I’ll never take stock tips from you if you think those pitchers are acceptable performers. That’s the biggest collection of trash pitchers I’ve ever seen for a team that actually thinks they can contend.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
No Chop Zone, the only music you will be hearing is the celebration music of whatever team knocks you this year. So, who will it be standing at the plate looking dumbfounded with the bat on their shoulder? Beltran again? Wright? Reye?Alou? Delgado? LoDuca? Look on the bright side. It will be better to get knocked out in the NLCS than to play in the World Series have your a** handed to you by any AL team because they are all better than your precious Mets.
By Colin
August 24, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
How does just bringing up some young arms to test them in September and try again next year?
By Coach (MORE OF LEWS BRILLIANCE ,ENJOY)
August 24, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
By Lew
November 20, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this
Rammer-Come on Dude, we’re not in a rebuilding year. There IS plenty of beer left. Ourt whole problem last year was inconsistency in our rotation and absolute horror from our bullpen-mainly from lack of a closer. Look how much better the bullpen looks already compared to last year. Wicky takes care of the closer and with another good set up guy, we’re good to go. Paronto was good. Yates is further recovered from surgery and really only had one bad month. Check out his stats. McBride was out at the beginning last year, but was quite dependable late in the year. At the very least, Reitsma, if he’s back, won’t be closing games. If Boyer comes back, we’re that much stronger. Our offense will be fine. Keep in mind that the Mets literally have to rebuild their entire rotation. Even if Glavine returns to them, so many are p** with him, it is bound to affect his performance. Pedro may not even pitch next year. The Phillies don’t have much in the pitching department, either. Jamie Moyer? Give me a break. The Marlins are not all going to shine in their sopomore season, either. The Nationals are weaker with the loss of Soriano and need to do massive rebuilding. From where I’m sitting, the Braves look pretty good already.
By Hobson
August 24, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
now, jimmy smith must leave for a time.
I’ll alert the media.
By KC
August 24, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
Will:
As I posted earlier… you could have a 2 million dollar yacht, but if it springs a leak it’ll start to sink. You may look at that yacht and say “it’s a substandard boat”, and you’d be entitled to your opinion.
There are only two possibilities:
1 - This is, as you say, a “mediocre” team… plain and simple.
or
2 - A very good team that has a hole and is taking on water.
If “1”, then you give up now. But if it’s “2”, then you look for some way… ANY way to plug that hole. Because you know if you can do so, you’ve got a good thing going.
The Braves have the best offense in the league, the best 1-2 punch (Smoltz/Hudson) in the league, and a good bullpen.
What part of that screams “lack of ability” as you see it??
I happen to think this is a good team with a hole in the boat (the back end of the rotation).
You apparently subscribe to the former train of thought (that it’s just a mediocre ballclub). I don’t understand that, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
Shaun, you are way too damn analytical sometimes. Do you seriously not think a team’s attitude can affect its play? You have got to be kidding. If guys don’t really care or don’t have that fire inside them, they will only marginally succeed. Their talent will keep them from falling on their face but not reaching their potential. I present one JD Drew. On the contrary a team with a good attitude or players with a good attitude can overachieve.
The Braves have been a good team because their talent is too good to allow them to totally tank but they haven’t taken off on a hot streak in part because they just don’t seem to be very intense or have a sense of urgency.
Look at the Seattle Mariners. Their talent level suggests they are an average team. Yet, here they are challenging for the wild card and division title. We think the Braves starting pitching is bad?! Look at Seattle’s! But, the Mariners go into every game believing they can win it and treating it like it is their last. They don’t accept losing.
Man, I see what you are saying, but when you are so focused on stats you forget the human element in all of this. These players aren’t figures on a video game. They are human beings with thoughts and feelings and ATTITUDES. All of this affects their play.
By Win Some, Lose Some
August 24, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Over the past two seasons, the Braves are 145-145. 290 games is a pretty large sample size. Shaun required a much smaller sample size to finally concede that Andruw sucks.
Now (so KC and a few others say) they’re suddenly going to catch fire and snatch the wild card? Where’s the evidence? Why do you foolishly disregard the overwhelming proof before you and assert that this quintessential .500 squad will close out the season with the .600-.700 spurt required to make the playoffs?
I must say, your hearts are resilient. But your brains are dead.
By Coach ( MY GENIUS , MONTHS AHEAD OF THE CURVE)
August 24, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
By Head Coach
November 20, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this
To you guys discussing Hudson I say , this is a blog and you are entitled to your opinion. But it most certainly not a fantasy league. Trade Hudson and his 162 game average of 34 starts 16 wins 8 losses 3.53 ERA 227 innings and replace him with what for six million ? like I said , only in a fantasy league. Giles , Thorman , Salty , Diaz and maybe Ramirez are the most likely to be playing elsewhere in 2007. Ramirez and Davies are coming off an injury plagued season and in reality they would be worth less in trade than the value they have as potential starting pitchers with minimal contracts and the added depth to the pitching staff they provide.
By coachk
August 24, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
22 pitchers on the roster 2 of them worth a sh*. There is reason buddy has not pitched 7 yrs in the majors, he can’t. and chuck is nothing more than a minor league pitcher and now you worked the bullpen to death they are awfull and please put the wickman to pasture. score 8 runs a game and still can’t win need to start looking to next yr and some pitching… see you Andruw
By Lew
August 24, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
Angstification? Oh, The Humanity!! Did we just see Coach’s pent up wisdom? A quote from me about Mets’ pitching? This is the secret? Of course, of the pitchers I mentioned, Park is gone. Sosa is in the pen and El Duque has spent considerable time on the disabled list. Of course I was off a bit with Perez. He has exceeded everyone’s expectations, I freely admit. Of course, if Coach really had any clue at all, he would realize that Glavine and Maine are more than likely the reason for the Mets’ success to this point. Of course, Coach fails not only to acknowledge this, but also fails to note that I omitted them from the trash category.
On the other hand, where is the truth and the way to .700 ball promised by Coach? Again, we humble mental midgets, we lowly knuckle draggers still wait on your every utterance. Have you been conferring your wisdom upon John Schuerholz? Is that what has caused your silence, Oh Exalted One? Have you been conferring with your generals rather than divulging your secret plan to keep the Trolls at bay? Please. enlighten us. We all ask yet again. Confer your wisdom. Your loyal minions await, Oh Mighty One.
By BBUA
August 24, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
Will,
I completely agree with you recent post. The Braves are just a 500 team. They will win 2 out of 3 and then lose 2 out of three and so on. You can’t win with 2 SP and a below average bullpen.
The last post was titled “Maybe it’s time to concentrate on the wildcard” or something like that. The next post should have the following title, ” Maybe it’s time to concentrate on next year “.
My hat’s off to the Mets, they are going to win the division with a team that qualifies for medicare. I’m not sure what that says about the Braves but from the Mets standpoint it doesn’t matter.
We can always say “wait until next year”.
By Susan
August 24, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
A real woman could stop you from drinking, Arthur.
By Efrim
August 24, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Wow Lew. Did you honestly say that?
El Duque has been just as good as John Smoltz and Tim Hudson. Oliver Perez is holding opponents to a lower average than either as well.
By D L P
August 24, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
The fat lady is beginning to sing…. oh and so is Dandy Don….”TURN OUT THE LIGHTS..THE PARTY’S OVER:”
Question? Why is it that the Braves get runners on and most of the time the last out is right at someone leaving the bases full, then the first batter in the next inning gets on base with a hit …ALWAYS especially our friend “RALLY KILLER” A. Jones?
WELL, at least they got us to college football season..”WAR EAGLE”!
By Arthur
August 24, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
A real woman could stop you from drinking, Arthur.
A real BIG woman.
By Thrillhouse44
August 24, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
Good analogy, KC. I wish there was a way us fans could help plug the boat. The only thing I can do is to offer my support and to encourage those that are doing the plugging. It’ll be nice to get some fresh arms up here come September.
By KC
August 24, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
TennPaul: Thanks!
Some of these bloggers… I’ve been picturing them posting on their laptops from a window ledge, contemplating whether or not there’s reason to go on.
I sensed a need, so I dawned my cape and pocket protector and sprang into action!
The talk around here seems to be the the hope of getting halfway decent starts out of our 3,4,5 guys is the impossible dream.
Well… Cormier’s pitched well each of his last 2 starts, and James has pitched well for the most part ever since he put on a Braves uniform.
This is NOT farfetched guys. We just need James to be healthy when he comes off the DL next week, and Cormier to keep doing what he’s doing.
Don’t listen to the dark side of the force within this blog!
By Coach ( MY GENIUS , MONTHS AHEAD OF THE CURVE)
August 24, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
To the nay sayers , read the 2:27 repost. How in the hell could I have believed that Ramirez , Salty and Giles would be gone and they are just that. That Hudson would be worth keeping , I mean how could I have gotten it so right months in advance and yet the KNUCKLE DRAGGERS still can’t figure it out in the present ?
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 24, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Thanx coach. That post brought back memories. LEW, do you remember writing that bull sh-it? I do. You and many other stood on your 14 divisions championship and felt you had the right to snub you noses at every other team. What I saw during those 14 years was a fan base that was arrogant and obnoxious. Maybe after this season you’ll learn a little humility.
By Susan
August 24, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
Arthur, take my hand.
By LT (double AA blogger)
August 24, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Chuck James: sucks lately
Buddy Carlyle: sucks
Jojo Reyes: sucks
Whatshisface Cormier: sucks, oh but maybe he’ll come around to the same picther that dominated in “Spring Training!”
Wickman: sucks (spare me the home game stats, he sucks)
Kyle Davies: sucked, now sucking elsewhere
Mark Redman: Uber sucked!
Oscar Villareal: spare me the starting crap, he sucks more often than not.
How in the heck do you beat by a Reds team? Crap- this team is crap right now! Losing three out of four to the freakin Reds on the most important series so far. You can’t win with that many losers on the pitching staff.
By Burt Johnson
August 24, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
I don’t drink because drinking affects your decision-making.
By Win Some, Lose Some
August 24, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
Coach, I’m sure we all could go scrolling through last year’s posts and find hundreds of instances in which your predictions turned out to be embarrassingly inaccurate. But of all the egomaniacs on this blog, you’re the only one, safe to say, who’s enough of a total loser to invest the time and effort required.
Anyone who thinks enthusiasm and a winning attitude can’t help a good team play over its head should think back to the 1988 Dodgers. Or the 1991 Braves.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Efrim-Did you by chance notice the date of the post that Coach quoted? It was in Novemeber. You know Novemeber? Five months Before the start of the season. And I repeat-Park is no longer with the Mets. El Duque spent more than a month on the disabled list and Sosa has been relegated to the bullpen. So I was wrong about Oliver Perez, a pitcher coming off of a 3 win season in 06. Excuse me if I was wrong about one pitcher five months before the season started. Besides, it is merely an obfuscation- A smokescreen thrown up because Coach has no flipping clue how to achieve a .700 level of play like he has bragged so forcefully for the past day. Come on Coach-The knuckle draggers have been waiting patiently for you to pour forth your wisdom- Your knowledge that not even JS possesses. Come on you big blowhard, put up or go tuck your tail between your legs and skulk off like the total lowlife we know you to be. Oh-NoBrainZone-Go screw yourself you smarmy Little Weasel. We await further wetting of Beltran’s pants. I think I will do a drawing and present it to you as an anti-Wurlitzer. Flippin Little Troll.
By Thrillhouse44
August 24, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
NoChop calls US “arrogant and obnoxious”? Look in the mirror. Oh the audacity!
By flange1
August 24, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
NCZ,
go away!
Coach,
Please tell us the secret! We see your predictions have come true, you are the true Master of Baseball,
Please educate us in our hour of need!
By Lew
August 24, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
I love it Coach. Why don’t we break out some posts from 05 or 06? Would they perhaps prove as relevant as the crap you’ve already come up with. Come on. Let’s hear your cure for the Braves’ problems. You know the one’s that will have them playing .700 ball. Wouldn’t they be more relevant to what’s happening now than posts from 9 months ago?
By Coach ( MORE OF THE MORONS WISDOM)
August 24, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
By Lew
November 20, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this
Head Coach
For the love of PETE! I’ll pretend that I didn’t just read ANOTHER post by you defending Hudson like he’s Greg Maddux’s twin.
Are you a relative?
Maybe his Agent?
The true question WITHOUT ANY SARCASM is this: What in the WORLD will you do when (not if) JS actually does TRADE HIM? It appears to me that you might be pretty bent out of shape by it.
I’ve got NO PROBLEM with that. Really. I don’t. It just appears to me that you are RIDICULOUSLY one sided, as to not see that Hudson might be on the downhill side of his career. (notice I said MIGHT - not IS)
I’ll ask you this. Again….NO SARCASM. (I’m not in the mood to fight tonight LOL!) In order to sign Glavine (let’s assume JS wants to and Glavine isn’t going to “settle” for the good-guy/hometown discount - but JS feels the Braves NEED him), and clear up enough money to do so, JS would have to move Hudson, are you OK with that?
Me, I’m not neccessarily “bitter” at Tom Glavine. That’s in the past. Will the “world” EVER think of Tom Glavine and the Mets? Probably not, he’ll ALWAYS be thought of as a Brave. So, IMO, he should end his career as a Brave. But here’s the real question: Who has a more REALISTIC shot at actually HELPING the Braves NEXT YEAR?
I’m not even looking at Hudson’s last two years of his contract (I KNOW we disagree on the worth of that…dollar wise), I’m just looking at NEXT YEAR. Who’s recent track record shows me enough to have FAITH that they will perform? To me it’s a NO-BRAINER. If the ONLY way for Tom Glavine to “come home”, is for Tim Hudson to go away. I’M ALL FOR IT.
Now don’t mistake those feelings for me saying get rid of Hudson. If payroll is going to go up (If it’s NOT and we keep Hudson….KISS ANDRUW GOODBYE), after ownership trades hands, then HEY! Let’s take a gamble. Sign Glavine (GIVE HIM THE DAMN NO TRADE CLAUSE), keep Hudson and see what happens with BOTH of them, along with Smoltz, Hampton, James and the other cast of wannabee’s. Seems like a solid rotation to me.
By Coach ( HANDING LEW HIS BUTT IN A SACK
August 24, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
Own it Lew , it’s all you. Wallow in it , oink , oink , oink. The ENTIRE METS NATION IS LAUGHING AT YOU. By, the way , I love you man.
By AZBravoFan
August 24, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
Well after a good night’s sleep I’m trying to reach for my optimist hat again. I keep looking at how putrid the Diamondbacks and Dodgers looked not too long ago and thinking that there’s still time to turn this around. Not much time, but still time. I think the Pads-Mets series showed why no one is going to run and hide.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
I guess the crowd at Long John’s has died down. A certain someone is back on here harrassing people. Its a shame really! I’m sure his bosses thinks he is inventoring the clam strips.
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Carroll. I re-read the game article this morning. There must have been an initial version without Chipper’s quote and then an updated version with Chipper’s quote. It is in there now. I hope Wickman took that one personally (and Willie, too). Although, it might be too late for calling people out on the carpet to work for this team. I cannot believe that they are now 4th in the Wild Card standings. Not to mention that they have have only 8 fewer losses than the Nationals, a team everyone thought might lose 110 games this season.
By Jeremy
August 24, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
I’m trying to keep the faith, but we’re running out of games. The Braves could still get hot and pull out the wildcard, but they need to get it going QUICK!
I don’t know how we can blame Bobby Cox for any of this. He is playing the players he has, and its the players’ jobs to get guys out or knock runs in with 2 outs.
We’re not getting much of anything from any pitcher NOT named Smoltz or Hudson.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best),
I just have a hard time believing there are very many guys who have played high school or college baseball, went through three or four years minimum in the minors and worked there way to the majors, and realize that there are a lot of guys out there just waiting to take their jobs would not have “that fire inside them.” Also, they have millions of dollars to lose or gain by having or not having the fire.
In other words I don’t think “that fire inside” favors one team or another since it is necessary for anyone who wants to make it and stay in the big leagues.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
Coach-That last post is certainly not mine. It sounds much more like Nathan. I have never and would never use LOL in a post. Really, though, I’m not sure why I bother to defend myself. So many others here are doing it for me. You, on the other hand, have been complimented by NoBrainZone. Wow. The Mets’ Trolls hold you in esteem. Oh, What a Lucky Man he was.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best),
It’s not that I don’t believe in things like desire and chemistry and toughness. But I just don’t think one major league team’s desire, chemistry and toughness significantly out weigh any other team’s in terms of helping them win.
By KC
August 24, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Coach: Geez dude… you’re keeping an archive of everyone’s posts???
By Coach ( I'll quit harassing the feeble minded.
August 24, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Okay , I’ll stop. I made my point. You guys will just have to wait on me hand and foot until the next blog , I’m not giving anything away until then.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Further proof that was not posted by me. I did not know how to do paragraphs until Tennessee Paul e-mailed me earlier this week with the correct process. Hell, just last week KC posted that my posts needed paragraphs. Why don’t you go research THAT from a week ago and see what my response to KC was. Coach, all you’re proving is that you’re nothing but a complete fraud and a stuffed shirt. But, then again, most of us knuckledraggers already were aware of that. Still waiting for you to impart your esoteric wisdom. Where is it, Oh Prognosticator Supreme?
By Rodger
August 24, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Coach is trying to tell us the answer is somewhere in the past…
A long time ago, in a division far, far away, there was
GLAVINE, MADDUX, SMOLTZ AND AVERY !!
Or, he!!, I could be wrong
By Coach's Secretary
August 24, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Coach I have researched back to the beginning of blogdom and while I did find a couple of more less-than-100%-accurate “predictions” by Lew, I still can’t find a single thing that you said that was right. Yes Sir! I’ll keep trying. You don’t have to be nasty.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 24, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Lew, you’re such an A-Hole. You look at things through such a small hole. Yes, Sosa is in the bullpen and Chan Ho Park is gone. But what you’re missing is this. The organization put the team together with obviouse expectations. Some worked and some didn’t but for the second straight season the Mets have proven the ability to adjust to adversity and put a winning season on the fly. You and other aren’t giving the Mets and credit for this. They have suffered injuries and players that lacked the expected production and still made call ups and trades that have continually filled the gaps. But I digress. My point here is this. Sosa, El Duque, Perez and Maine all have winning records. Can you say that about your rotaion???? In fact I heard on ESPN the Mets lead the majors in wins from their starters. Put that in your f-king pipe and smoke it.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
Shaun, I hear what you are saying. I really do. However, I think there are teams that don’t have the same intensity as others. For instance, look at the Mets. Even the most ardent of Mets fans (well, accept a certain Long John Silver’s employee) have to admit that the Mets have not had the same enthusiasm or fire they had last season. The question is why?
It is just like certain orginizations expect to win while others don’t. Teams like the Royals and Devil Rays have a loser’s mentality. Look at the Devil Rays. They should be a better team than they have played. Most people thought they would take a huge step forward. Instead, they have taken a step backwards. Maybe even two steps backward.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 24, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
Umm Coach…it was Nathan’s post….
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2006/11/20/dissecting_trad.html#comment-822692
By Thrillhouse44
August 24, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
If Coach was my coach, I’d go Spreewell on him.
By Jimmy Cracked Corn
August 24, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
NCZ does not work at Long John Silvers. He shovels sh!t at the Budweiser Clydesdale’s stables. That was his major—at UT.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
The Braves are the seventh-best team in the NL. Nine teams are worse than the Braves. Imagine what the blog would be like if the Braves were one of those other nine teams.
By Coach ( I'll quit harassing the feeble minded.
August 24, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
No Chop Zone , give it up man. Lew doesn’t understand quality pitching. I knew the Mets would win the division by the end of April. I called the Braves a wild card contender right out of spring training. Lew doesn’t understand how the Braves can improve the rotation RIGHT NOW , he is waiting on me to explain it to him because he does not have the baseball intellect to figure it out on his own.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
NoBrainZone-And just why should Braves’ fans give the Mets anything? First of all, you haven’t won anything yet. Nothing!!!!! You could not proceed past the NLCS last season,despite all of your ranting, raving and the crap that you heaped upon us. You haven’t won anything at all this year!!!!! There’s still plenty of time left. You not only have us to worry about, but the Phillies, too. Damn, you Little Troll, If I were to give props to anyone it would be the Phillies, not the Mets. The Phillies are winning with smoke and mirrors, because they don’t even have a pitching staff, to speak of. Jamie Moyer? Yet, they keep winning-much more in recent months than either the Mets or the Braves. Maybe it’s you that needs some new priorities. Y’all should have buried the rest of the division. No one but Braves’ fans expected the Braves to win. Everyone expected the Mets to cruise. But, Oh, wait a minute. They went sub .500 for more than two months. More than one third of the season. You just lost 2 of 3 to the Padres, Weasel. And yet, you still come here grabbing your crotch and throwing insults at your betters. When you get down to brass tacks, Little Mosquito Boy with your whining and buzzing, the Mets are the underachievers-not the Braves-remember, Coach doomed us last winter and lowered the wrecking ball two months ago. Let’s see how the rest of the season turns out before you start asking for props that aren’t even yours to request. The Mets aren’t tearing the world up, are they? Besides, remember how you’ve told us that all those 14 division championships mean nothing? Well, NoBrainZone, if that’s true, what’s the Mets one division worth? One fourteenth of nothing?
By BravesDave
August 24, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Shaun, I think that you are very naive if you think that desire or fire, or whatever you would like to call it, does not come into play in professional sports. Look at a guy like Randy Moss, for instance. This guy gave up on the Raiders as soon as he was traded there, did not give 75% of his skill, and gave 0% effort, while he was on the field. Now he moves to New England and will be back to playing at a Pro Bowl level. There are countless examples that I could give of guys that just don’t give their all for their teams. I am not saying that Chipper doesn’t (because he definitely does), but do you think a guy like Chipper is worried about someone from AA taking his spot?? Smoltz?? Andruw Jones??? Sometimes, players get comfortable. Granted, guys like Johnson, Francoeur, and McCann can’t get comfortable, but others can.
By ijonathan
August 24, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Shaun
At 10:39 am this morning you made an outrageously, indefensibly ignorant statement about Wickman this year:
“Wickman has been decent.”
WHAT??
Last year, yes…Wickman had a very good year. For Atlanta, 18 of 19 saves, 1.04 ERA, 1.00 WHIP…had he maintained that over a whole season those would be outstanding, Smoltz-like numbers. (BTW, if you look at his Cleveland numbers from last year, prior to coming to Atlanta, they look a awful lot more like what he’s putting up this year for Atlanta.)
This year? Well, let’s see, he has gone from converting 95% of his Atlanta save opps last year to 76% this year (20/26), his WHIP has ballooned to 1.56, and his ERA has just about quadrupled to 3.92. All of those stats are NOT DECENT for a closer.
By Coach ( I'll quit harassing the feeble minded.
August 24, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this
Yes , Berigan. one of our multiple personality bloggers has been exposed. How else to explain his picking up up on it so fast ?
By Lew
August 24, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Thanks, y’all. I hope Coach is becoming aware what it’s like to actually have friends. He’s just so lonely. Maybe we can hook him up with NoBrainZone. Apparently Mosquito Boy is an admirer of Coach (I’m Nothing But a Bag Of Hot Air that Can’t even quote Accurately-But I know The Meaning Of Life and Everything About Baseball, Too). They were made for each other. Certainly a match made in-well, maybe in Queens.
By I Osamered yo mama
August 24, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
No Chop Zone Put that in your f-king pipe and smoke it. Fellow “terrorist”. That is disgusting and more in keeping with the ashcan, than the Koran. Besides, while it might taste good, it would smell terrible.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
My. My. My. Somebody get stuck having to clean the bathrooms today? Perhaps cleaning out the grease traps? Calm down, No Chop Zone. Take it easy on ‘ol Lew. And, don’t be a drama king. The only significant player the Mets have lost to injury (other than Pedro) is Beltran whom they only lost for a week and a half. Now, last year when we were all on here bemoaning injuries to Chipper, McCann, Hampton, and Reeksma you said we were just whining. Look, I think the Mets are a good team. I just don’t think they are the “Amazing” world beaters you do. Fact is this. If the Mets were to lose either Reyes or Wright right now, they would be done. Why? Because they are the heart of the team just like Chipper was last year.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best),
Why do you assume a)that the D-Rays and Royals should be playing better than they are and b)that it’s because of a lack of enthusiasm or fire?
The D-Rays actually do have a lot of talent but it’s very young talent. The Royals, likewise.
And what do you see in the Mets that makes you believe they have less enthusiasm and intensity?
The question is not why. The question is is it true the Mets have less enthusiasm? There’s no way to prove or disprove it, so why even make the assumption without a good bit of evidence?
And to what degree does enthusiasm help a team? If it helps a lot, why didn’t it help the 2005 Mets who had a lot of the same players as the ‘06 Mets?
By Coach ( STEAL MY NAME ? I FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE !
August 24, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
By Coach(Head up my darkside of the moon)
August 24, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
Will somebody please pay attention to me? I so want to tell you “all” I know, and I promise that won’t take long. Now listen up you Kool-Aid-Drinking-knuckledraggers……THIS WAS NOT ME , BUT I CAN PLAY DIRTY TO , LEW.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 24, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Coach,
I have been more than fair to you, and sometimes you get it(like with Salty’s potential) and I haven’t really picked fights with anyone short of some dumb Muts fans and the S & S dopes…but, I don’t like people putting words in others mouths…
as for how I was able to do it so fast, simple. Google! Put the first paragraph in a search, added the date, and AJC, and even though they act like it’s too much info, and they toss out common words, the search found it….
By flange1
August 24, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Hey Coach,
That N8 post that you said was Lew’s, what was the point of bringing that up? That was a sentiment of many of the blog’s patrons at the time. Notice N8 did NOT say he wanted to trade Hudson, but that if JS made it happen and we signed Glavine he was for it.
I agreed with the post then as I do now.
I don’t see your point.
And please don’t tell us that we need to go to a 4 man rotation and that will solve our problems.
Smoltz CANNOT pitch on 3 days rest at this point in his career.
Hopefully, you have something better than that.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Coach grasps at straws now that he’s been exposed as a fraud. That’s right, I’m Nathan, Stinky, Jimmy Smith and Braveheart, right? Maybe Savannah Guy, Berigan, Tennessee Paul, Jason In Maine and Wayne in Utah, as well. Whatever.
Come on Coach (Look The Emperor Has New Clothes), All of us knuckle draggers are still waiting for our baseball education. Why is it that Coach will do everything possible to avoid enlightening us. Obfuscation was shown to be fake, so let’s know Coach-where’s the beef? And no, Dude, sitting on it is no answer. Come on, Oh Wise One, we’re waiting. We will fully acknowledge your unerring wisdom if you will just put up or shut up. I’m sure most of us would prefer the shut up part, but we’ll settle for being leatrned, like you.
By Shaun
August 24, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
ijonathan,
Wickman has thrown 43.7 innings, given up 22 runs, 4 HR, 35 strikeouts and 20 walks. He hasn’t been a great pitcher. But he has been okay.
He ranks 85th in ERA among the 137 relievers who have thrown at least 40 innings this season.
As long as the Braves don’t put him in in close games, he would be fine. As long as they use him only to pick up the bogus stat called the save, he’d be fine.
And don’t start on Bobby Cox’s bullpen usage. He can’t throw Peter Moylan every inning of every game after the starter leaves. Wickman has to pitch.
By Coach ( Arguing With A Tree Stump)
August 24, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
Lew , your the genius , you explain it to me. How do the Braves improve the starting pitching ? Show us your vast baseball intelligence. Wow us with your wisdom. Prove to me your not a total windbag.
By Shaun is a yawn
August 24, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
Thank goodness! Shaun will soon get off for the weekend. Look for him. He will be the guy trying to get on MARTA with a super-computer on his back.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
Flange-Maybe he’s advocating a Gene Mauch move from the 64 Phillies. Their rotation was so decimated that in the stretch run, they went with a two man rotation-Jim Bunning (who had pitched a perfect game against the Mets earlier that year-Hear THAT NOBrainZone?) and Chris Short, a lefty who went 17-9 that year. The end result? The Phillies lost the famous ten straight and ended up one game out of the money on the last day of the season, having blown a 6 1/2 game lead in 11 games. Yeah, that one worked, didn’t it? I wonder if Coach predicted THAT ONE, too. Nine months in advance.
By Overlord
August 24, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
Shaun have you called Cox an asked him to please tell TP to teach player to bunt?
If not please do it before we go into the cellar.
By Overlord
August 24, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
Positive thing about yesterday: ACOSTA that guy shows control, and he is no affraid of KG Jr. He is out of Panama, maybe the next Mariano Rivera. Never know.
By flange1
August 24, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I have no doubt that whatever pearls of wisdom come from Coach’s mouth we will all be so awed that we will be unable to blog for the next week…..
By Salty
August 24, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
With props to Styx:
Yeah, I’m sittin’ on this bar stool ‘bloggin’ like a dam# fool
‘Bout what Altanta’s Braves should do..
and I’m givin’ up hope for knuckle-draggin’ dopes and that idiot ‘Old Lew’
Is it any wonder I’m not GM????
Is it any wonder Schuerholz is at all???
Well, I’m a test-tube genius
I can solve the Braves problems without even tryin’
I have dozens of friends , Uh, make that denizens
At least whenever I find ‘em
Is it any wonder I’m not the Manager?
Is it any wonder Bobby Cox is at all?
Is it any wonder I’ve got too much time on my hands
It’s hard to believe DO’B’s blogs’ humanity
I’ve got too much time on my hands
It’s due to the Braves sad calamity
I’ve got too much time on my hands
The season’s tickin’ away, tickin away without me
By Rodger
August 24, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
flange1
I’ve already told you-it’s not a 4 man rotation, it’s a 2 man rotation!
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Will somebody please pay attention to me? I so want to tell you “all” I know, and I promise that won’t take long. Now listen up you Kool-Aid-Drinking-knuckledraggers……THIS WAS NOT ME , BUT I CAN PLAY DIRTY TO , LEW.
Coach That wasn’t Lew, that was me. Now that I have “told” you, why don’t you give us the “secret formula” that you have been promising for about 18 hours. I have to be away from my desk for about 30 minutes, but I don’t expect to miss much.
By ncscoots
August 24, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
Lew, ripping on Coach is not a good thing, my friend. That’s taking advantage of the defenseless, like beating up on the class weakling. Gentlemen of substance, and I know you to be one, do not do such things. Coach deserves your pity, not your scorn.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Coach You stupid moron. You’re the one who claims to have the answers. I never claimed I knew the solution. You have-repeatedly. Put up or shut up, Emperor. It’s on you. You’re so smart. Let’s see what you’ve got to say. So far all you’ve done is make a complete fool of yourself and exposed yourself as a fake. Bring it on Oh Exalted and Most Knowledgeable. All of us here await your glowing words. Put up or shut up. Idiot. We’re all getting real tired of hearing how beautiful your new clothes are. What’s that? You’re really naked? We’ve tried real hard not to notice. Believe me. Oh, Most Intelligent One-maybe you could learn the correct use of your and you’re while you’re at it.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 24, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
LEW, there you go looking at things through a straw again. No matter what you say the standings have the last word. Last I checked they are saying the Mets are better than the braves for the last 120 something games. They only have to win the division by a game not 20. You just go on like a broken record. For the 100th time, my only point is this moron. The standing say The NY Mets are better than you f-ing braves. I don’t understand how this one sentence is so hard to comprehend.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Braves Dave, you are right on. Guys get comfortable. Right now Chipper knows he has job security as much as anybody can have job security. In the Braves’ case I think most of these guys believe that. They know Cox will stick by them no matter what. While that has its benefits, it definitely has its detriments. When some players become too comfortable they don’t concentrate or in some cases they don’t play as hard. It is that simple. Now, I’m not saying any Braves’ players are like that but I do have a feeling that some would push themselves to do better if they knew they could be sent on their way at any moment. Honestly, if this was four years ago, would Andruw have been allowed to stay in the lineup as long as he has. Hell, look at Torre who in many ways is just like Cox. He more or less benched Damon and Giambi because they weren’t performing. That is something that is not happening in Atlanta. Those guys aren’t happy about it but Torre is interested in winning and not players feelings.
By Overlord
August 24, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Shaun wickman is no closer. Period.
A closer by definition…… closes the game out!!!
When he comes in the door is shut.
Game over lights out……….. Wickman is no close to that, i cant remember a game where he left the bases empty, just last night of course after the HR.
Soriano is obviously a better choice, but Cox, as always, finds something misterious, that is only in his head, (because noone else can really understand) and uses wickman as closer. He doesnt have the stuff, not even the personality, not even the apperance to be a closer…… In life, to be something first you have the looks, im not talking pretty here, but you have to look like a dominant pitcher, and wickman looks to me as if he is coming into the game with a beer on his pitching hand.
By Bob, Journalist
August 24, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
From the wee hours comes the joke of the day … By uga-brave
“BOB J, you defintely have mastered the english language. i really like your blogs, they make me laugh. but some times i think your intentions are to condescend the rest of us that aint so smart. METHINKS”
Powerful words, any time of the day … kudos, uga-brave!
Was it not Polonius who said “you can always fool some of the people Abe, just be careful not to fool yourself!”
For the rest of you who ain’t so smart … just remember that those who think they are, ain’t! I may sometimes appear to be condescending but that’s never my intent … it’s just that sometimes methinks situations call for better attention getters than four by sixes.
Something that might be worth pondering … were I to consider folks stupid, would I not also think it stupid to expend the energy required for indulging in what some consider the obfuscatory?
If we’re not supposed to laugh at ourselves and with others, then why did God make mirrors?
And most definitely not am I a master of the language, as some hereon who truly are, can duly attest … as does the above syntax … however, I wish I were and certainly appreciate and treasure the misguided sentiment as a compliment.
He also made a bold prediction that I like too!
That we are all somewhat frustrated is to be expected as are the many different forms of manifestation that we are seeing … we can expect the players, coaches and management to be frustrated as well … what is somewhat surprising is seeing such frustration publicly expressed … or at least the manner in which it’s being done.
I remember riding with my sister just after she got her license …. came to an intersection … she hit the gas instead of the brake … screamed help, threw up both her hands … and safely glided through the intersection!
Afterwards, she shook like a leaf … I doubt that it was a religious experience but keep the faith … God answers prayer!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
August 24, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
Shaun, man, everything is not about stats. Not everything has to be proven with some sort of formula to be true. I will tell you why I don’t think the Mets don’t have the same enthusiasm and intensity. I can see it. I see it with my own two eyes. Numbers aren’t the be all and end all. Somethings are just easily seen. C’mon, man!
The mental aspsect is just as important as anything. If the team comes to the field everyday lathargic and apathetic do you really think they are going to perform to their optimal level?
My son’s little league team lost two games last year. One they lost to a team that was simply better. The other game they lost to a team they had previously beaten by 15 runs. They didn’t win the game because they didn’t want to be there. Usually the kids were chomping at the bit to get on the field. For some reason this day they just weren’t into it. Well, his tean won the championship and beat the other team who was better than them to win it. Why? Because that team on that day played with the same apathy that my son’s team had played with in their loss.
Here is my point. Enthusiasm and intensity does matter. It does! You donn’t find it interesting that the Yankees begin playing better after Posada called them out for “mailing it in already”. I’m sure you will say it was blind luck or come up with some mathematical reason, but neither was the case. Just like last season the Tigers exploded after Leyland called them out and told them to start playing like they belonged in the majors.
By Lew
August 24, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
Scoots-Look at it like the old Saturday Night Live-Weekend Update (Jane, you stupid slut). Coach is only worthy of ridicule, not animosity. You’re right, it would be like torturing a dumb animal. NoBrainZone-You still there whining, and droning on and on and on and……….? All year long and the offseason, as well and still nobody gives you or the Mutts their props. Poor, Poor Little Underappreciated Troll Mosquito. You’re just so deprived. We feel for you. Yeah, we really do. Maybe Pedro will kiss you when he returns. Would that make you happy?
By Lew
August 24, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
RJIB-And who would you replace Andruw with that would match his production-fallen off though it may be? Willie Harris, who has cooled off to the point of frigidity. Willie Harris who can’t hit left handed pitching? The guy who has hit one HR all year? The guy who is constantly thrown out at second, trying to steal after singling? Come on, Dude. Realistic, you’re not in this situation. Maybe you’d prefer Thorman out there? Or maybe you could get Andruw to agree to a trade?
By Overlord
August 24, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this
I dont understand why the heeell does this muts fans, if you can call them fans keep coming here to tell us how good their muts are….. They didnt showed that against atlanta in any of their series, they didnt showed that against SD.
Muts sououock, plain and simple.
It is well known in all of baseball, the league has no respect for them whatsoever, what do you have to show? 2 flag for the last 2o years? 1WS (not to mention you would have none if they had changed buckner for someone that could go down for a groundball).
You use more and more and more money just like the yankess and what do you have to show for all that money????????
Nothing, just another mediocre team, that wouldnt even make it to the playoffs if hampton and gonzo was around, and i dont care if pedro was around also……. youll see, i hope you people dont go into the closed or under the bed when october is done.
By Renegator
August 24, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this
No Chop Zone:
You are right - the standings say that the Mets are better than the Braves this year. Great - now that that’s settled can you go find a Met’s Blog? Why do you come around here?
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Would one of you computer-types give NCZ a link to the Muts blog. Obviously, he can’t find it for himself.
By Coach ( This is how the Braves get over the hump.)
August 24, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
Hey , Lew…… nobody is reading. NEW blog is up. It’s been up for an hour you damn fool. I’m so kind to come back in here and Drag Lew kicking and screaming into the present.
By Overlord
August 24, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this
Robert its is simple, im sure this braves players dont practice the bunt, cause they will hammer the other team, so they go……..BUNT? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT??? Torre even sat bernie when he stopped performing well.
Check out some of the players that are performing the better……Acosta, Tex, Mahay. What do they have in common? They have not been infused yet by the passive game of Cox, they still know they have to put fire into their games. Look at Mccan and jeff, they already look like chipper, Not even a Grand slam means anything. You think last night single back brian off the wall would have been a single last year? of course not 100% sure. Now he runs slower than wickman, come on he is a catcher not a 100 year old grand ma.
By Stan, Cycle Man
August 24, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
DOB, the pegs are ready and the drool cup. Pick the bike up before 6:00 PM. Stan
By Thrillhouse44
August 24, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
NCZ says “The NY Mets are better than you f-ing braves. I don’t understand how this one sentence is so hard to comprehend”
yet he calls us “arrogant and obnoxious”.
NCZ, you better hope the Braves don’t make it to the playoffs. Seriously, if you have a birthday soon, that should be your wish.
By Paladin
August 24, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
Renegator The reason NCZ comes around is the same reason any cur comes around. He is looking for hand-outs. Let’s get together and give him a hand. Clap. Clap. Clap. And an out? The pet door is right over there.
By Overlord
August 24, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
This player dont play like if their life depends on winning the game. Thats all. And if you dont do that. You lose.
By Overlord
August 24, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
Muts Fans are wishing hard for the braves not to get into the playoffs than they are for their mets to get there, as they know that if the braves get there it would like if the muts never did……. do i need to explain???????
By beki
August 24, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
Last night I had to unplug the TV because of a lollapalooza of a storm;too bad, a storm couldn’t put fire in the Braves’collective bellies ( but not Wicky’s ). Their play on Monday night made me think this would be a cakewalk;since then I’ve been treated to sandlot baseball. Is the heat getting to them? I’d rather think that than to the possibility of mediocre talent rising above their comfort levels. At least, I had a couple of Marilyn Monroe movies to watch.
By KC
August 24, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this
Overlord: “wickman is no closer. Period. A closer by definition…… closes the game out!!!”
Wickman doesn’t inspire and great confidence in me. I’ve said publicly that I would like to see Moylan get a crack at the role. Having said that…
Wickman has converted 20 of 26 save opps this year. Not stellar save conversion ratio for a closer, but not bad either.