AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > August > 22 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USIs it time to focus on wild card?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Look how fine a line the Braves are walking these days. Lose one game to the Reds, after winning two in a row, and they’re looking up at a six-game deficit in the NL East to the Mets with 36 games to play.
But the Braves are down only one game in the wild-card standings. Is it time to focus on that?
I don’t know. I’m asking you. Somebody else needs to do me some math. I have a hard enough time with the magic number. I was horrible at probability - ask Mrs. Caldwell, my 11th grade math teacher - permutations and combinations, etc. So in my simplistic way, until you guys throw some numbers out at me, are some of the things I’m looking at:
• The Braves have six games left to play against the Mets, and have gone 8-4 against them this year, so nothing is insurmountable yet.
• But the Mets are 7-1 in their last eight games. The Braves are 4-4. Are the Mets playing a high gear that the just might not come for the Braves? The Braves have had a stretch like that since the first game of the season when they went 7-1 against the Phillies, Mets and Nationals.
(Since then they’ve won five in a row once in May, once in June. Since the All-Star break the biggest winning run they’ve gotten on was three games in a row three times.)
• Once the Braves finish their weekend series in St. Louis, it’s back to playing in the NL East, with six games each against the Mets, Nationals, Philies and Marlins. As good as the Braves are against the Mets (8-4), they are.500 against the rest of the division (18-18). And that doesn’t bode particularly well. The only other teams left are Milwaukee and Houston, with a series each. The Braves have fared well against them, taking two of three from each.
Past history isn’t much of an indicator with this team, I don’t think, because so much seems different about this Braves team. There’s been no commanding lead, no big move in the standings, just long stretches of .500 ball and trying to figure out if this team is going to step forward as a contender or not.
But there has to be some consolation from 1993. The Braves trailed the Giants by 7 ½ games in the NL West on the morning of August 22 and won the division. As lots of folks pointed out on here yesterday, there was much better starting pitching on that team. But then again, these Mets aren’t those Giants, who won 103 games. The Mets are on pace for 92 wins.
At this point in 1994, the Braves were trailing the Expos by six games. Then the strike came that might have saved the Braves from losing their first division in four years and preventing the whole 14 in a row. Then 1995 came the wildcard and created this whole new possibility.
So what about it now? Thoughts?
Looking for reasons to feel better today? Edgar Renteria is back in the lineup. Lance Cormier looked like a much better pitcher in his last start. And the Braves, who are 23-30 against left-handed starters are due to face right-handers for the rest of this trip (Bronson Arroyo tonight, Elizardo Ramirez Thursday, Kip Wells, Joel Pineiro and Adam Wainwright in St. Louis.) They are 43-30 against right-handed starters.
Grabbing at straws? We’ll see.
Sometimes you guys ask, ‘What’s the mood in the clubhouse.” And I roll my eyes, because night-to-night that’s just not that big of a deal. They act how you would expect. Quiet. Subdued. But last night I believed it was especially intense, especially with Cox, who pulled Reyes in the third inning with the idea that the Braves would come back and win.
So to me that’s a sign that the Braves know it’s crunch time and that can’t be all bad. The intensity level goes up.
Oh and one more thing on Mark Teixeira hitting two home runs while sick on Monday. Bobby Cox said Teixeira had told him the last time he felt that way in Texas, he hit for the cycle. No wonder Cox ran him out there.
Comments
By T-Bone
August 22, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
First? Could it be?
By Will
August 22, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
Yes it is time to focus on the Wild Card. Our past Braves teams would be thinking about setting the postseason pitching rotation with a late-August 6 game division lead. With the back end of the rotation pitching so poorly it is hard to envision the Mets being caught.
By 1957 Braves Fan
August 22, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
Math has no relevance if Braves can’t win the games they play.
By N8
August 22, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
Carrol asks:
“Is it time to focus on wild card?”
I have 3 responses to that question.
1) Welcome to the party. What took you so long to join us?
2) Only if we’re lucky.
3) I say we should focus on winning a damn game NOT started by Hudson or Smoltz. THEN we can worry about the wild card.
Because, and correct me if I’m way off base here, I’m just guessing that winning 2 out of 5 games isn’t gonna get it done.
But that’s just me.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
KC
In response to your last post on the other blog.
I think it is time to stop worrying about the Mets. I would really just focus on our own team. The Mets are playing great baseball right now and we just need to match it. Although it is Peavy vs. Lawrence tonight, I really wouldn’t consider it in favor of the Padres. The Mets destroyed Chris Young last night. Lets worry about the Reds Cardinals and Marlins.
We face Arroyo tonight, and Wainwright on Sunday. Those are two solid pitchers we will have to deal with on this trip. Olsen and Vandenhurk will pitch on Monday and Tuesday against us. My guess is we will go 5-3 the next 8 games. That will get us to 71-63. Not the road trip we were hoping for, but I can’t really imagine anything better than that.
By Dr. Jay
August 22, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
I’ll echo the comment on the previous blog when this topic was addressed… It’s OK for the fans to start thinking Wild Card, but it’s NOT OK for the Braves to think that way. They must play to win the division. You never shoot for second. That mentality isn’t appropriate with over a month left in the season, and many games against the Phillies and Mets.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
N8
Well said. Everyone on this blog has to stop worrying about the Mets. We haven’t won a game not started by Smoltz or Hudson since Cormier beat the Phillies last Saturday. Lets focus on winning one of those and then go from there.
By Lee in S. GA
August 22, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Caroll Rogers - I have been focusing on the Wild card for the past week. The Braves had their chances earlier in the year when the Mets were playing 500 ball themselves and could never jump ahead of the Mets. I do think if they manage to win the Wild Card they can be dangerous in the play-offs however.
By Wolfman
August 22, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
The Wild Card is what I am looking at now. 7 out in lost column to Mets with 37 to play,…..no way !!! The starting pitching ( # 3,4,5 spots0 is a joke !!!!! They have already probably for sure cost us the division , and probably the Wild CARD as well in the end. You cannot expect to score 7 or 8 runs every night these meat ballers pitch !!!!!!
By Apaul404
August 22, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
How about we just focus on the Braves and winning game one at a time? If they handle their buisness it won’t matter. I’m so sick of this fifth starter crap I’m convinced that if Huddy doesnt start going on shorter rest we are gonna miss the playoffs. What we are doing to Jo Jo Reyes is jacked up. The man obviously is not ready for the show. Gonna be nice to have Edgar back tonight.
By N8
August 22, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
You guys keep arguing over what the Braves players should do. Shoot for the Mets? or Shoot for the Wild Card?
In all reality, all they need to do is worry about playing good basebal. PERIOD. If at the end of the day, the best baseball they have to offer is neither good enough to catch the Mets or win the Wild Card, then it wasn’t their year.
At which point JS can start worrying about 2008.
Play hard. Play smart. Win.
By The Murf
August 22, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
You never “focus” on the wild card this early. Come on now
By BravesFanInRockies
August 22, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
N8,
Good point. A .400 winning percentage won’t work.
A week or so ago, I suggested that all the worries about getting a good #5 starter miss the point if you had four solid starters and went to a four-man rotation (running a fifth guy out there only when you have to ensure that your top four get four days rest between starts). Look how well it worked for the White Sox in 2005 and Tigers last year, I said.
Well, it did. But apparently at a cost. The Sox look completely burned out and the Tigers are showing signs of serious wear — especially for a young staff (excepting The Gambler).
The price for working your starters hard may be that they can do that for a year, maybe two, and then they’re toast. Hope you win before they’re crispy!
As I said then, maybe it’s not possible to shorten your rotation any more — the umpires’ strike zones are too small; hitters are too strong; the newer ballparks are too hitter-friendly, whatever.
So we may be stuck with those outsized pitching staffs and short benches for the time being …
By The Murf
August 22, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
Thanks N8, that’s what I’m talking about. Focus on winning, that’s it.
By BG
August 22, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
Speaking of statistics on post-season odds, Baseball Prospectus runs a simulation model of the rest of the season to come up with projections. The up-to-date version suggests that the Braves are about a 20-1 long shot to win the division and have 4-1 odds of taking the wild card.
For details:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
Not surprisingly, the Braves’ post-season chances are pretty much about the wild card at this point. So, it is hard to choke out the words but “let’s go Mets…beat those Padres” (yuck…a bitter aftertaste).
By Stu
August 22, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
What does it mean (for the team) to “focus on the wildcard?” That we only need to win 57% instead of 65%? It makes for good blog debate - but two things are obvious: we’re much more likely to win the wildcard than the division; and from a players’ standpoint, the only goal is to win ballgames.
Regarding the rotation: if a couple of guys don’t step up, any chance we’ll see Blaine Boyer in a starters’s role?
He’s done okay in his last few starts at Richmond (except one); not great, but at least he’s shown the ability to get out major league hitters. I don’t know just what his health status is, but I wouldn’t feel too bad asking him to give us 5 innings every 5th day for the next 6 weeks.
By Al Davis
August 22, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
JUST WIN BABY
By Mets Stink
August 22, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
You focus on tonight’s game and nothing else. After tonight, focus on tomorrow. Don’t worry about the Mets, Phillies, Padres or anyone else until you play them.
By George
August 22, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
The “Focus” needs to be winning each day and what happens will take care of itself. With that said I commented in April that this club would win or lose with with the back end of the starting rotation and this has proven true. The Atlanta Braves are not a playoff team because they do not have starters who can win in the 3,4,5, slots. Get help in the winter… hope Mike Hampton will be there next year (but don’t count on it) and content next year with a very powerful starting eight.
By TennesseePaul
August 22, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
Just win. F the rest. Win the damn game your in. Keep the leads you’ve created in that game. The rest doesn’t matter. Just the game you are playing. Win that one.
This pitching staff is comprised of 2 great starters and a bunch of chokers even in the pen. It’s extremely frustrating. The pen wouldn’t be so bad if the starters could last 7 innings. I hope Buddy is on it tonight. All season the guy was able to bounce back after a rough outing and put up a handful of solid starts. But not so much lately.
It’s on the pitching staff. This season rests in the hands of the pitchers. Not even Andruw Jones perpetual rally killing at bats is enough to totally drag on this offense. It’s the pitching.
By J.D. Phillips
August 22, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
The Braves were considered a mediocre 500 team to finish 3rd in their division by most baseball forecast experts before the season began. It appears they were pretty much correct, like maybe 100%.
By mr baseball
August 22, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
At no point since the first six weeks of the season has this team shown absolutely any indication that it is capable of sustaining a high enough level of play for a few weeks in a row to be serious division title contenders. Barring an unlikely meltdown by the Mets, the Braves are playing for the wild card, not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Chances of winning the wild card, however, are not great considering the state of the starting pitching after Smoltz & Hudson, and the inability of the vaunted offense to produce runs in close, late game situations, last night being a perfect example. During Cox’s years as manager, the Braves have consistently had sub-standard records in 1-run games, attributable in large part to his strategic shortcomings and amazing talent for almost always making the wrong move regarding the bullpen, even if it seems to be the right one.
With a string of RH pitchers about to face the Braves, that means relegating a .340 hitter to pinch-hitting duties for the rest of the week, and will force Chance the Manager to actually have to alter his usual lineup card to keep Yunel off the bench. Too much thinking will be required for Bobby’s preference, which does not bode well for us fans.
It’s obvious already that JoJo ain’t ready. Cormier may not be up to the task either. David Wells is not exactly a sure thing, but at least he has a history as a big game pitcher. Given what Cox has to send to the mound 3 days out of 5 (Carlyle’s also looking shaky), Homeboy Upstairs needs to get over his aversion to players who don’t precisely fit the Braves’ mold and give Boomer a call. He needs to be on the mound when the Braves play the Cards and Adam Wainwright Sunday, one of many reminders of how Schuerholz trades that look good for a short time don’t look so sagacious a few years down the road.
It’s not too late, but the GM needs to do something/anything about the starting pitching. Hell, Byung-Hyun Kim would be better than what we’ve seen here lately. Not holding my breath, though.
Something for the ADD Braves fans to consider: Bullpens occasionally blow leads. Even good ones. Look at Hoffman & Wagner last night. The Braves’ culprits last night were Mahay & Moylan, who have been the 2 best arms down there in recent weeks. It happens to everybody, so quit acting like only the Braves let leads get away. Some of you folks need to pay attention to what happens elsewhere in baseball, ‘cause your perspective is pretty warped when all you can see (and gripe about) is what happens to one team.
By rob
August 22, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
I’m just happy with the the lineup. The rotation is going to get us anywhere this year. we have to find a 3 and 4, so Chuck can be a solid number 5. We may make the playoffs, but I expect with the way Georgia sports have been going lately, we won’t.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
Blanie Boyer isn’t in consideration for a rotation spot this year or next year. Braves will have to go outside the organization to find a starter for next season. Teams will target Brandon Jones, Jo Jo Reyes or Yunel Escobar for compensation. Not to mention we will need to find a closer and centerfielder for next season. If we have to deal Edgar, so be it. I can’t deal with the lack of talented pitchers the Braves have. In the end, it’s our inability to produce young quality starters from the minor’s. They are inexpensive and are the most important thing to a team.
By Chop Chop
August 22, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
Al Davis: “Did I take my medication? Where’s my medication? Did I take it? Where is it? I took it? Really? Check out my late-1980s Raiders team jacket. Who’s the Crypt Keeper? My pills? I haven’t taken them yet. Did I take them? We need a new coach. Let’s call Art. It’ll be a real scream…hehehehehehehehe!”
By sportsmandh
August 22, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
I said two days ago and will say it again. If the Braves don’t win 7 games on this road trip they will not make the playoffs.
Why is Villareal not being considered for the 5th starter spot? You want to tell me he couldn’t do better than Cormier (he of the 9+ ERA) and Reyes. It is not really the fault of Reyes, he’s simply not ready for the primetime and the fact that he’s even been up here shows just how desperate the 5th starter situation has become.
But for those on these blogs who keep complaining about why JS didn’t add a starter before the trade deadline, remember they tried and no one was selling. Remember when everyone was excited we may get Arroyo? Anyone noticed what he’s done over the last month, he’s been attrocious. Also, Chuck James was pitching much better at the end of July than what he has pitched since. Now we better just hope he comes back and provides any help at all. No smart alleck comments needed, I know he’s no All Star but he has won 9 decisions and his ERA is not over 6, which is more than you can say for Cormier, Reyes, Redmon, or Kyle Davies.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
24-12
Lets get win #1 tonight.
By Larry
August 22, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
What we NEED is to focus on four things things:
A new manager. Cox cannot manage a team without dominant starting pitching. He is nothing more than a cheerleader that fills out the lineup card (often wrong) and calls grown men cute nicknames. He may be the worst in history at determining when to pull or leave a pitcher in a game, and clearly IS the worst in his choices to replace a pitcher.
Pick a closer with enough professional and personal pride to chose health and performance over morbid obesity so he’s not completely “gassed” after a 50 foot sprint (wobble) to first base.
Faze out Andruw Jones NOW! Replace him in center with Harris and put Diaz in right and leave them there until the end of the season. Put Andruw in for defensive purposes late in the game and move Harris to right.
Take the money you would have wasted trying to sign Andruw and go out and get a quality third starter in the offseason.
By Lew
August 22, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
Whatever. We need to win tonight. Worry about winning tomorrow after we win tonight.
By Sonny
August 22, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this
With our 3-5 pitchers, and Andruw’s eternal slump, even the Wild Card is out of reach. JS just didn’t do anything to address the pitching all year and it’s going to cost us our second season of missing the post-season.
By Shaun
August 22, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
I don’t think you “focus” on anything except trying to win every game.
I understand it but I kind of think it’s silly to talk about focusing on the division title or the wild card. You go out to win every day (without doing too much to jeopardizing your chances to win subsequent games).
BravesFanInRockies,
I think the White Sox pitchers all just happened to have great years at the same time in 2005.
The Tigers young pitching broke out in 2006 and their older pitchers pitched well.
I think the odds are against four good starters staying healthy enough to each throw over 200 innings. If a team is lucky enough to get that, they have a good chance to have a good pitching staff.
I think that’s the amazing thing about the Braves’ staff in the ’90s, there were three maybe four great pitchers and all were healthy enough for several seasons, which is very unusual.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
Whether the Braves should begin solely focusing on the wild card is a difficult question to answer. However, I will answer it. I think they should. I think the Braves should take one step at a time. Yes, the Mets are six games up in the divison. No, that is not an insurmountable lead. But, the Braves need to focus on the most immediate spot that can get them into the playoffs. Right now that is the wild card.
The Braves have a shot at both. The problem this team has is that they can’t seem to get on a winning streak. Now, they don’t go on losing streaks either, which at this point is a very good thing.
Something has to happen. A spark has to take place. A fire has to be lit. Carlyle, Reyes, James, and Cormier must have it impressed upon them how important it is for them or at least two of them to step up.
The Braves have to take the last two of this series with the Reds and take at least two of three from the Cardinals this weekend.
Despite what some say it is all about winning series. If the Braves can win or split every series the rest of the way, they will make the playoffs. The problem is that Hudson and Smoltz can’t pitch in every series. In a strange way the September callups could be the biggest boost to the Braves. For once quantity may be better than quality. I figure the Braves have Reyes, Devine, Ascaino, Boyer, and Sturtze up in September. Cox will be able to go with a quicker hook without worrying about taxing the bullpen. And who knows maybe a couple of those guys will emerge.
Also, what is going on with Dan Smith? Perhaps, the Braves should let him start a game and see what happens. It really couldn’t be any worse.
By Daybed Wagmoe
August 22, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
a guy on local radio this morning — i’m in athens, it was either chris brame (sp?) or dave johnston — said the braves need to look into moving villareal into the rotation, which i don’t know why the braves haven’t thought of this.
he also had an interesting idea: pitch hudson on 3 days’ rest down the stretch. i’m not a big fan of this idea, because if we do that, then we run him into the ground and risk not having him for october (which is why we’d be pitching him on short rest). however, what’s the saying? desperate times call for desperate measures?
By Anders
August 22, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
Lew and Paladin Me - I’m calling this blog by Carroll “It’s The Smart Play”
Just seems to fit - Don’t ya think?
By Herschel Talker
August 22, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
Is this a joke? What a waste of space for a column, writing on something that’s been obvious to the rest of us for weeks. Where’s DOB?
By AthensBrave
August 22, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
Question
Does the winner of the WC play the divisional champ w/ the best record?
By Shaun
August 22, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
Larry,
Are you joking? Trying to get everyone stirred up?
How do you explain the Braves pitching from 1991-2002 and 2004? If he was so bad with pulling and leaving in his pitchers, etc., don’t you think they would have underachieved at least one year in that time span?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Mr. Baseball, I agree 100% with you about Wells. How can anyone in their right mind say that a battle tested, big game winning, grizzled veteran pitcher like Wells is not worth the risk or worse than what is currently in the rotation? Really? Is Wells worse than Reyes? Worse than Cormier? Worse than Carlyle? Even worse than James? C’mon. He is worth the risk. If he tanks, then he is the same as the jobbers we currently have stepping on the mound. As I see it, it is a no risk all reward situtation. Who cares if Boomer can be boisterous and outspoken? Maybe that is what this team needs. Somebody who isn’t afraid to get in somebody’s a**! In fact, I know it is what this team needs.
JS needs to think outside the box and make the call. What is the worse that can happen? Wells gives up four homers in one game?! Oh, wait! That has already happened. What? Wells walks the ballpark. Oh, yeah. That has already happened. What? Wells gives up two different leads given to him by the best offense in baseball. Yeah, that has already happened………………….a sickening number of times. Make the damn call!
By Chuck
August 22, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
The way i see it the pitching is the problem. Even if the Braves make the playoffs they cannot be successful with their present stating rotation. Smoltz and Hudson are ok but the rest of the rotation is sub par. They need pitching NOW!! Is John S gonna work his magic once again and get some pitching in?? Who knows?? The offense has shown signs of brilliance since Tex came and Chipper is having his best season ever Is John S gonna let these guys down? He’s got to make his move NOW!!
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
AthensBrave,
Yes, but the Wild Card winner can’t play the winner of their own division in the first round.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
AthensBrave - You can’t play the winner of your own division in the first round. If the Braves win it’s off to the desert and Mr Webb for at least two games. Personally - I think the D’backs can be had in the first round -especially by an fairly experienced team like the Braves. Young teams that overachieve during the season tend to let down a little and can get overwhelmed.
By T-Bone
August 22, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
Is it too late to trade for a pitcher? The Mets picked up Conine. Or is that too costly? Is it better to go with what we’ve got for this season and try to pick up a top pitcher in the off-season using Andruw’s money?
And why didn’t we block the Mets from picking up Conine?
By Chop Chop
August 22, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
Let’s make Oscar Villarreal the fifth starter. After all, he stinks when he pitches more than two innings. He’ll fit right in.
Jo Jo is a lot like Kyle Davies was when he was first called up. You know, a year or two from being ready for the bigs. It’s Schuerholz and the scouting staff’s fault for not producing better starting pitching in the minors. Chuck James doesn’t even have a third pitch, for God’s sake.
That being said, I think it’s pretty obvious that starting pitching will be the Braves’ demise. As Smoltz says, this team really is built for the postseason (two very good top-two starters who don’t nibble, generally decent bullpen at the top, lots of guys who can hit for power, etc.), but you still have to play 162 to get there. The Braves aren’t really handling the “162” part too well right now. I just hope they catch a break.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Longest winning streak since the break is 3 games. Enough said.
Looks like the Mets have not really been listening to DOB’s comments that they haven’t been playing well and are not a dominant team. They are 22-13 in their last 35 games. Funny how a 7-1 stretch makes everything look better. Hmmmm, maybe thatis why I kept stressing that the Braves needed to go on a winning streak at some point, while everyone kept insisting that is more logical to want the Braves to win 2 out every 3 games for the rest of the season. Well, we have seen how likely is it for the Braves to win 2 out of every 3 for the rest of the season. Forget it.
Meanwhile, the Braves are 17-18 in their last 35 games. But somehow, they were one of the hottest teams in the National League. Right.
By Yars
August 22, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
Unless the Mets go on some 6-8 game losing streak, with the way the Braves are playing, there is just no way they will win the NL East. It is time to focus on the NL Wildcard. To hell with the Mets & the East. Sure, the Wildcard is packed right now with the Padres, Phillies, Brewers, & Dodgers, but I see the Padres & Dodgers hopefully fading away soon. The Brewers don’t impress me, neither do the Cubs. We can take care of the Phillies since we play them 6 more times is it? I was hoping that we would sweep Cincy, but if we can take 3 out of 4, win 2 out of 3 against the Cards, & sweep the Fish, we then have a great chance of sneaking away with the NL Wildcard. Now Playing: Fire Woman by the Cult
By sportsmandh
August 22, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Anders, Of course, b/c the Braves have faired so well against the Diamondbacks in their 2 series against them. I don’t think anyone wants to get matched up against Arizona in the playoffs. Throw out all the statistics, they’re a team that finds a way to win the close ones. And by the way I’m not on the bandwagon b/c I can’t stand them.
By 22oz
August 22, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Step 1 towards winning: Never ever bring Villareal in with men on base. Ever. Cox should have known better. It happens every time.
Step 2: Just because we’re facing a string of righthanders, shouldn’t mean that Matt Diaz rots on the bench. But it will, for it might violate the platoon laws of the universe.
Step 3 should have something to do with pitching, but i have no idea what it is…
By Larry
August 22, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You completely missed the point!
With Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, and Maddox there was rarely a moment Cox needed to make any stupid decisions. He made those after they came out and thus our of 14 playoff opportunities the Braves finished with a loss with the lone win because of a one hitter by Tom Glavine against Cleveland in Game 6 of the 1995 World Series.
Get it Shaun? It took a one hitter by a starting pitcher for Cox to get his only world series championship despite the best pitching in the world for well over a decade. Now, without it, coupled with his disastrous relief pitching decisions, he is completely befuddled!
It is a I.Q. problem.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Anders
It’ll be hosting the Cubbies for your Mets. Zambrano, Lilly and Hill have the potential to dimonate your Met lineup. I would worry about the Mets chances in the playoffs. El Duque would have to start game 1, seeing that John Maine and Oliver Perez have been terrible since the break.
By J.D. Phillips
August 22, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
The players are the ones who need to focus, not the fans. If Reyes and James are the future for the Braves pitching staff we better acquire A-Rod for SS and Albert Pujols for LF within the next couple of years.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Anders
It’ll be hosting the Cubbies for your Mets. Zambrano, Lilly and Hill have the potential to dominate your Met lineup. I would worry about the Mets chances in the playoffs. El Duque would have to start game 1, seeing that John Maine and Oliver Perez have been terrible since the break.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Efrim 24-12. You’re kidding right? The Braves have played 6 games over through 126 games, they’re 5-5 in their last 10, they’re scrambling to win a series against the Reds tonight and you have them playing .666 ball the rest of the way?
It’s nice to dream but you can’t think that realistic.
By Carolina Lady
August 22, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Happy Birthday to Carl Yastrzemski, HOF. 68 today.
By LT (double AA blogger)
August 22, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
I don’t see a wild card berth for the Braves this year. The prime example why was the game last night. They have lost these type games more often than they’ve won them this year. The reason for that is they don’t have enough pitching.
They are where they are at this point because James was at least decent through most of the season and Buddy actually had some decent starts.
That is quickly fading and there are only two good pitchers that give you a shot a winning.
I hope this offseason the Bravos can sign Texeria to a long term deal and find some starting pitching. There is a great core nucleus of young talent on this team on the field. There is just not enough pitching.
By AthensBrave
August 22, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Going to the desert sets up for another post season let down. We suck against the D-backs, and they have Webb.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
T-Bone Conine passed through waivers a couple of weeks ago before the Mets had a need for him so JS wouldn’t know to block him. It was only when Easely got hurt Saturday night the Mets went after Conine. Lot’s of guys are already through waivers waiting to be moved if the need arises, however, very few if any are pitchers of value.
By Carolina Lady
August 22, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
SODUS, N.Y. (AP) - Dropping something may have saved Joy Horton’s life. The 73-year-old woman says she was preparing some food in her western New York home Monday morning when she dropped a spoon on the floor of her kitchen. When she bent down, her house exploded. The explosion leveled her home. Horton wasn’t seriously injured. She crawled out from underneath the rubble and walked to her daughter’s home nearby to get help. Fire officials say because Horton was bending down when the explosion occurred, the kitchen sink and counter top helped keep debris from hitting her. The cause of the explosion remains under investigation.
Does anybody have this lady’s chili recipe?
By BravesFanInRockies
August 22, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
We may be talking chickens and eggs. It may be possible to keep four starters healthy enough to pitch one year … but that’s all.
And yes, the Braves’ pitching health during the 1990s was amazing. That may be the strongest evidence that Leo was some sort of magician. (His mentor was Johnny Sain, who didn’t care what kind of shape his pitchers’ bodies were in so long as their arms got lots of work.) His pitchers took the ball more regularly than anyone else’s.
And by the way, only nine days ‘til the rosters expand. That means the rotation may shape up like this:
1) Smoltz; 1A) Hudson; 3) Staff; 4) Staff; 5) Staff.
Get ready to see lots of Blaine Boyer, Kevin Barry and (yikes) Trey Hodges, unless things get better.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
Anders
Well 90 wins is what is getting them into the playoffs. You have to think that some team is going to play a little better down the stretch and take hold of the WC. 24-12 is a tough mark to reach, but that is the position the Braves have put themselves in. If the Braves are to make the playoffs, that’s the record they have to have the rest of the way.
By Annoyed and Losing Hope
August 22, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
It’s not about what the Braves are “focused” on at all — it’s about winning the games you’re supposed to win, and they haven’t proven that they can do that regularly. The Braves can “focus” on whatever they want, but if they don’t take care of business on the field, it’s all null and void. How can this still be a .500 team after all the Teixeira hype and all he’s done at the plate so far? If we don’t identify a #3 starter, and SOON, we’ll be focusing on next year, not the playoffs. Basically, what we have is Smoltz, Hudson, and a bunch of guys doing their best Horacio Ramirez impression — not going to get it done.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
Wild Card or Division??? Hmmm, how about just winning some damn games??? When they Mets are playing the Padres or the Phillies, the Braves need to win their games. Bottom line, enough said, no other analysis needed. They will benefit either way, either gaining ground on the Mets or gaining ground in the Wild Card race. But losing to the Reds with Bobby Livingston on the mound, getting one hit in four innings against the Reds bullpen…sorry, that is not going to cut it. All season long, the Braves have been letting opportunities pass without seizing them. We all remember how it felt like every time the Mets lost, the Braves managed to lose on the same night. Missing opportunities has become a trend with this team.
And if Schuerholz doesn’t contact David Wells after last night’s performance by KC & JoJo, then what exactly is he thinking???? He was willing to take a shot on Mark Redman, who was pitching against his basement wall, but he won’t take a shot on Wells?????????? Bizarre. Almost as bizarre as refusing to put Oscar Villarreal in the rotation.
By ncscoots
August 22, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
Boys, you can’t help but love this blog. I mean, plenty of folks here can’t even get through a single SERIES, let alone two weeks or a month, without giving up (sorry, “being realistic”). And then have the stones to complain that the players have no heart.
Anybody who has watched baseball for more than six minutes knows that ANYTHING can happen in a baseball season. 6 games out with 6 left head-to-head? That’s merely on the bubble, not left for dead. Good grief.
Maybe waiting for the outcome of the series the Braves are CURRENTLY playing might be a good idea? No? 3-1 against the Reds wouldn’t be good enough for you? OK.
You’re probably right. Giving up at the three-quarters pole is about what I’d expect from fans who are the equivalent of $1500 claimers.
Realistically.
By wiki
August 22, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
To be succinct….
In the last 19 games not started by Smoltz or Hudson, the Braves are 6-13 (0.312). If they had gone 10-9, they would be at 70-56, 2 games out of 1st.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Efrim I absolutely agree that the Mets would have to worry about a series against anyone. They’re pitching has been very suspect lately. I think they have enough to take the division but a playoff series is a whole new ballgame. There is 6 weeks for them to get these guys back on track but there’s work to be done.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
No more talk of Oscar Villareal into this rotation.
It hasn’t happened yet, why would anyone think it will happen now. He isn’t “stretched out”. So lets understand that we have to go with what we have. Carlyle, Cormier and James for the rest of the year. Next year he will be in the same position he is in this year. A swingman. Smoltz, Hudson, Pitcher acquired via trade, James, and Hampton is set in stone…..unless Hampton goes down with an injury again, or Smoltz gets hurt, or we trade James……Sigh. Where are the Justin Verlander’s or Cole Hamels from our minor league system?
By Carroll Rogers
August 22, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Ouch Herschel Talker. If this is such a waste of space, why don’t you find some Georgia football practice to blog about?
AthensBrave, i think Anders answered your question, but the wildcard team plays the team with the best record in the league, so long as it’s not in their division.
By supa
August 22, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Substitute Villarreal for Reyes! He was very solid in that role last year and has the durability to give us 5-6 innings (70-80 pitches).
Plus that gives us another lefty/long-reliever in the pen.
After all that’s gone wrong with the back-end of the rotation this year, I think it’s probably the best shot we have at stabilizing the rotation.
By beachcomber
August 22, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
uga brave - just read your post from the last blog - (out of town catching up). You’re analysis of spring training is spot on. We were in trouble when we lost Hampton and got in more trouble when we convinced ourselves Cormier would be an answer to the 4-5 spot.
And while I’m at it - damn you Michael Waltrip!
By transplanted NYer
August 22, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
Strange happenings afoot… Braves fans will be rooting for the Mets to win games to help Braves make the Wild Card!
By Big Easy
August 22, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
I love all the comments on here about how JS didn’t do anything about the rotation at the deadline, blah blah blah. The bottom line, folks, is that there were no starters available at the deadline. We made the best deal we could hope for, and it has turned out pretty darn good. Yes, we have a weak rotation, and our 3,4, and 5 guys are painfully inconsistent. But there were really no other options.
Our starting pitching is weak, but usually our bats can get us around that. Last night, much as I want to pin the loss on Jo Jo, was a bullpen implosion. Jo Jo shouldn’t have given up 5 in the third, but he did. We took the lead back. And then Mahay and Moylan had bad games. Everybody has a bad game, so that doesn’t bother me so much. What bothers me is that, in the heat of a pennant race, every game counts. And when you score 7 runs, you expect to win the game. But we couldn’t shut down a mediocre Reds offense last night. It happens. Unfortunately, we are getting way too late in the season to have those oops moments.
We gotta win, and we need a streak of wins. It only gets tougher from here on out.
~E~
By Anders
August 22, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Wiki Good stat - that really suprised me. The question then becomes - should JS have spent the family jewels he used to get Tex for a quality starter instead? I’m sure there was someone out there you could have gotten for those players.
By monty
August 22, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
It was interesting watching the Diamond -Backs the other night. THey seemed to exude confidence and Looked like they were having the time of their life. I guess winning breeds that or does a team need that in order to be succesful. Can you imagine being one of the Braves regular starters and you just took the lead by 3 in the bottom of the 7th or by 4 in the 4th and you know in your heart that lead won’t hold up if it’s the 3rd,4th or 5th starter pitching or the bullpen is in. I imagine they are about to SCREAM! Like ME!
By REick
August 22, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this
NOT bad for a team with 2 starters to be in the wild card race huh…What happened to Brian..??Jeff has thrown out more runners than he has latley
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
BravesDave, I totally agree. Mark Redman was at his home in Tulsa, Oklahoma throwing to what amounted as a Chucky Cheese game yet the Braves signed him. David Wells, who is an accomplished pitcher, is out there and he isn’t worth the risk? Okay, makes perfect sense to me.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
22oz, great point about Diaz. The guy needs to be in the lineup more often. But I know, Bobby needs to follow the platoon rules to the hilt. Just like he did with Klesko and LaRoche. It is not permissible in Bobby-Cox-Land for a guy that hits .330 against righties to face righties.
Diaz is 5 for 11 in his last two games. In the five preceeding games, he had a total of 5 at-bats. I understand Willie Harris has had a good season, but he is also 2 for his last 18. Sometimes, in a pennant race, you have to play the hot hand. I guess not in Bobby-Cox-Land.
By Shea Nation
August 22, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
It’s nice to see that the Braves fans of the world are starting to realize what everyone else, except Steve Philips, has known the whole season. You just can’t catch the Mets. Especially when Carlos Beltran is on one of his “I’ll carry the Mets on my shoulders” kicks. You all worry about what the Braves are doing against the Mets.
Oh, they must be better than the Mets because the Braves have taken every series this year. Guess what? The Mets aren’t the only team they will face for the last month and a half.
There is still an outside chance that the Braves will get the Wild Card, but not if they keep relying on Teixeira to do all the heavy lifting.
Nice interesting topic to live up. Did you know that Beltran has been out Chippering Larry all year when the two teams meet up? Well he is and here are the stats:
AVG vs Braves and Mets Beltran .333 / Chipper .318
HR Rate vs Braves and Mets Beltran 1/14.7 AB Chipper 1/19 AB
RBI Rate vs Braves and Mets Beltran 1/4.9 AB Chipper 1/5.7 AB
Have a great vacation in October and if you get bored the Met will be on.
By Josh H
August 22, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
JoJo Reyes is destroying AAA batters. That level really isn’t a challenge for him. But, he doesn’t seem to be able to make the jump between AAA and major league pitchers.
All Cormier has to do tonight is repeat his performance from his last start.
By Carroll Rogers
August 22, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones finished fifth in the Rawlings all-time Gold Glove team….starting outfield was willie Mays, Roberto Clemente and Ken Griffey Jr. Jim Edmonds was only a handful of votes behind……So have at it. A good vote? Was Griffey a better center fielder in his prime than Andruw? Is Edmonds?
Maddux made the team as the pitcher. He won 10 of his 16 Gold Gloves with Atlanta.
By Adam
August 22, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
The wild card may be out of reach if someone in the back of the rotation doesn’t step up and help out. They have burned up the bullpen the entire season and made what was thought of as a strength now a weakness.
The Braves have to start developing starters in the minor leagues that can throw strikes consistently. The Braves have brought up guys with great arms but no control. The entire league is full of good arms, but organizations like the Giants can actually groom them to be legit starters in the Bigs. Look what they have developed in just the past few years, Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Noah Lowry, and Francisco Liriano. At some point this needs to be fixed or mediocrity is going to be the norm for the Braves.
By Lee in S. GA
August 22, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
All it will take is a Braves victory tonight and the Padres and Phillies both losing and everyone will be talking about the Braves in post-season again. Good grief.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
I just don’t get the love affair some of you all have with Villareal. I mean are you actually watching him pitch? He is not the answer either. You all act as if he is lights out when he comes in. He’s just another reliever in a mediocre bullpen.
By michael
August 22, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
The offense cannot go out every night and score 7 or 8 runs. Cox does not know when to take a starter out. We also need a pitching coach. Duncan of St Louis and Petersen of the Mets took Sosa and straighten him out. He was a mess under McDowell.
Michael
By supa
August 22, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
So even if we make the wildcard, it’s VERY likely that we’ll play the D-backs in the first round. Not good. I’d rather play the Cards, Cubs, or Brewers, but it doesn’t look like they’ll win more games than the West division champ.
By Bill Heller
August 22, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
The Braves must focus on securing starting pitching for next year because they don’t have the talent for a playoff spot now.
By brent a.
August 22, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
1957 Braves Fan is correct:
The focus should be on winning games.
People act like there is some “black box” secret strategy involved in determining whether your approach is winning the division or winning the Wild Card.
Winning games is what this team needs to do.
If Hudson and Smoltz are the only pitchers to win a game over the last 5 + weeks, then does it really matter what we are focusing on?
50 cents says that no matter what happens, we will catch the Wild Card leader before we catch the NL East leader (whether that be the Mets, or the Phillies).
So, with that being said - WIN GAMES!
If you lose, you can focus on the off-season.
By Shaun
August 22, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
Larry,
That’s funny. I thought they won 4 out of 6 in the ‘95 World Series, not one one-hitter.
I’m not suggesting Cox is perfect but I also don’t know, if he was so much worse than other managers at things like pitching changes, how he has won over 56 percent of his games. And how he his teams exceeded pre-season projections (Diamond-mind.com) and pythagorean record in most years.
By BUSHWACKER
August 22, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
Just get in the playoffs, that’s all that matters. With Hudson and Smoltz we will be alomst impossible to beat if they pitch games 1,2, and 4 and 5 if needed. Seven game series,Smoltz game 1,Hudson game 2. Smoltz game 4, Hudson game 5 or 6, Smoltz game 7.
We can win it all with those 2 and just 1 or 2 good games from the other starters.
By NCBravesFan
August 22, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Carroll - timely blog given recent events. My best answer? The Braves should focus on winning, and let playoff seedings work themselves out should it come to that.
Bottom line - somebody in that 3-5 black hole in the rotation is going to have to step it up, or it is not likely we’ll see playoff baseball in the ATL this year.
By Adam
August 22, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Villareal needs to stay in the bullpen. The Braves have 3 starting pitchers that typically get knocked around early or walk the ballpark and the Braves need someone to clean up after them. It would be s different situation if it was only 2 of them throwing terribly, but the Braves have 3 that struggle.
Villareal needs to keep doing what he is doing, throwing 2 times a week for 2-3 innings to at least keep everyone in the pen from getting 80 appearances.
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 22, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
A victorious JackAss returns to discover rampant lunacy and mayhem permeating the MIB blog…Additionally, numerous simpletons are digging in at the plate, and becoming too brash and comfortable, thus TheJackAss is eager to execute a few high and tight “brush-backs” to set these unwary oafs back on their heels…Consequently, TheJackAss will presently remove his self-imposed banishment from the blog, and again return to practicing erudite verbalism with the greatest of impunity!…
By Lee in S. GA
August 22, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
knowitall
I agree with you. Everytime or more often than not when Villareal pitches, runs appear to cross the plate… unless I am missing something.
By mr baseball
August 22, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
I happen to like the job Oscar has done for the Braves, but he is NOT the answer as a 5th starter, at least not until after Sept. 1. It’s probably too late in the season to consider starting him. For his first start or 2, you would get 4 or 5 innings out of him at most, which would stress a bullpen that would be without its No. 1 long reliever.
Who would take over Oscar’s role? A 1 or 2 inning pitcher like Devine or Paronto? A minor league starter like Reyes who has little or no experience as a reliever? Two months ago, Oscar might have been a reasonable solution, especially after the wasted trade for Ledezma. But making him a starter would cause more problems than it would solve.
After Sept. 1, when the Braves can add 3 or 4 pitchers to give the bullpen some depth, maybe think about it, but James should be back by then.
At the risk of going over the same ground, those of who are constantly whining & moaning about the starters following Smoltz & Hudson need to have a better acquaintance with the facts. Until their last start or 2, both James & Carlyle had held up their end by any statistical measure you can come up with, even though just about everybody on here wants to blast James for rarely getting past the 6th inning.
They are a combined 16-14 with respectable ERAs & have kept the team in just about every game they’ve pitched. Both could have records that are even better than what they are. You don’t judge starting pitchers on 1 or 2 bad outings, especially if an injury was a factor. But that won’t stop the constant carping by some of who with a lot more opinions than knowledge.
What’s killed the Braves has been the starting pitching by anyone other than the first 4. The other guys are something like 4-18 (all the wins by Davies) with a ridiculous ERA. That’s the problem. Not James & Carlyle.
You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not your own set of facts. This is a baseball blog, not the O’Reilly Factor.
By jokurone
August 22, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
it is really very easy to see night after night. we have 2 major league pitchers and 3-5 minor league starter-relievers and there is no getting around it. we counted way too much on Hampton being available so JS stayed with Davies,James, and the rest of the so-called starters who should be back in AA ball.shuffle the rotation put Hudson in the 3rd spot.wait till next year
By ncscoots
August 22, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
Well, at least more bloggers are coming around to the “win tonight, calculate later” mindset, instead of throwing out 5-team-parlays of win-loss records, the permutations of which would boggle Stephen Hawking.
By ExBravesfan
August 22, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
Wild Card?…Wild Card? Are you joking. They were in Second Place and now they have to get by the Phillies too. Listen the Braves have a good team, I just wish they had the offensive power they had last year and the Pitching this year, remember the Detroit Tigers all those years, scoring 900 runs and winning 62 games…Pitching is the key..until they get the pitching straight, Wild Card?
By AZBravoFan
August 22, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
I have to agree with those who say the Braves just need to concentrate on getting wins. And good teams figure out how to compensate for their deficiencies. Sure Reyes was horrible and the bullpen not much better. But how about this high-octane offense not being able to scratch out ONE run off the Reds bullpen. Not much excuse for that either. The Braves have to figure out a way to get just one win out of #3-5. If Smoltz and Hudson keep winning, that’s a .600 pace. With an extra win here or there, that should be enough for the wildcard. And I’ve been on the “no good starting pitchers available” bandwagon since July too, but I’m starting to lose patience. At least Trachsel (can’t believe I’m throwing that name out there) or Boomer wouldn’t pitch scared after being handed a nice early lead.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
Anders JS would have had to have paid a much higher price for a pitcher than he payed for Tex. At least he got value for what he gave up. He would have had to add more prospects to the deal and would have gotten someone probably no better than the pitchers we already have.
For those being critical of JS for not signing Wells, how do you know he hasn’t already looked into it? There are other teams out there looking for pitching and they haven’t signed him either. There could be a reason why.
By Aubrey
August 22, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
Carroll- In my opinion, I think the Braves should consider going after another starting pitcher such as David Wells to help make a push for the Wild-card.
By Carolina Lady
August 22, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
Hello, SJA! Welcome back! :-)
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
BUSHWACKER, it is ridiculous to say that the Braves will be almost impossible to beat in the playoffs. Smoltz is not impossible to beat right now. Smoltz is 4-4 in his last 13 starts. The Braves are 5-8 in those starts. I am not saying that these losses are the result of him pitching poorly, he has actually pitched well in the large majority of his starts. But the Braves are not unbeatable when he is on the mound. Now, on the other hand, the Braves have won Tim Hudson’s last 11 starts. Go figure. Our two aces…the Braves win 11 straight with one on the mound, and lose 8 out of 13 with the other on the mound. Talk about inconsistent.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
Carroll Forget Andruw - Where’s Frenchy?
Yet another anti-Atlanta biased list. Is ESPN behind this? I’ve heard they show Atlanta Brave highlights subliminally only. You’re watching them and you don’t even know it.
By steve
August 22, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
Uh Efrim? Mets faced Zambrano/Lilly/Marquis at the beginning of August and won 2 of 3. And the Mets scored 4 runs off of Hill in 6 IP when he pitched against the Mets in May. El Duque has been every bit as good as any of your top two guys. Maine and Perez proved they can pitch in pressure in the 2006 post season. I wouldn’t worry if I were you how the Mets rotation would fare in the post season. At least we’ll be there.
By Mets rule You drool
August 22, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
See even your writers get it…its over!!!!! Youre two time NL EAST CHAMPION AMAZIN’ METROPOLITANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Next year try to be more humble and know your place before you start running you’re mouths again. Hahahahahahaha!!!!! Its going to be a long offseason in AT-LOSER-LANTA. But its’ not over compeletely - you still might catch the Phils.
Naaah!
By Michael
August 22, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
All I have heard since the Braves aquired Tex has been the comparison between this years team and the team in 93 when they aquired McGriff. One KEY DIFFERENCE. They had Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine. This years team still has the crafty veteran in Smoltz and a lights out Tim Hudson, but James is no Glavine. I can’t see James pitching a one hitter in the closing game of the World Series, bottom line if the Braves don’t bolster their starting rotation and quickly, the playoff’s will be a fading hope in Atlanta for not only this year but next as well. 8 runs should be enough to win a game against the REDS!!!
By geauxbraves2000
August 22, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
So even if we make the wildcard, it’s VERY likely that we’ll play the D-backs in the first round. Not good
That is a very good point. The D’Backs pretty much own the Braves. So, I guess that means the Braves are going to have to focus on the division. Not likely, but do-able.
Geaux Braves!!
By KC
August 22, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
SR:
“Reyes is clearly not ready for prime time and while Carlyle has had some decent performances, he is no better than a 4th or 5th starter on most staffs.”
Agreed.
“The jury is still out on Cormier but if history is any barometer, with the exception of a few decent starts last year, he has been woeful for the bulk of his career.
I will wholeheartedly agree with you that the jury is still out on Cormier. But as far as history being a barometer… his “whole career” only consisted of 1 full season before he got to Atlanta. So, I don’t think you can use historical precedence to build a case there.
Again, I agree that the jury’s still out. Who knows what he will or won’t become. I do know that as soon as the Braves moved him to the rotation last year, he began to shine. He posted a 3.25 ERA over 5 September starts last year for the Braves, and looked downright nasty all spring before getting hurt. There’s certainly not enough to go on for me to bet any money on Cormier, but after last Sept, this Spring, and his last start… there’s good reason for hope. I’m anxious to see how he looks tonight.
“James has been inconsistent at best and that is being charitable imo.”
I don’t know if that’s at all fair to say. Last year, CJ posted a 3.78 ERA for us. This year, at the end of July, he had an ERA of 3.70. If you go back one more start (everything prior to his last 4 outings) he had an ERA of 3.55. Apparently, he wasn’t feeling anywhere close to 100% his last 3 or 4 starts, which is why he’s now on the DL. So, I’m just not sure you can call him inconsistent. Sure, even before August, he had an occasional bad outing, and he often doesn’t give you as many innings as you’d like, but I’m not sure that amounts to being “inconsistent at best”.
“As to the bullpen, yes, Wickman has had moments of excellence but he has not inspired confidence as of late.”…“I guess we differ on Paronto, he has never inspired confidence in me”
Wickman has made me uneasy of late too. Just pointing out that despite whatever confidence he does or does not inspire in you and I… his production has been solid. As for Paronto… I’m not trying to position him as a savior, and nobody’s calling him a dominant reliever. But when you look at the numbers, it’s apparent that he’s a solid middle-reliever who was (temporarily) sent down for reasons that had NOTHING to do with performance. He and Ring will add depth to our middle relief.
“Soriano has it some nights but his propensity to give up the long ball scares the bejeezus out of me.”
Well let’s go back to your statement about using history as a barometer… Prior to June 15th when Soriano’s struggles began… he had given up a grand total of 10 homeruns in his previous 134 games!! Sometimes good pitchers have to make adjustments. History in his case would indicate that’s all that’s needed. He’s been working with Roger some things, and he’s looked pretty darn good his last few times out. So let’s hope he’s righted the ship. Time will tell.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
Some of you, earlier, were giving me grief ‘cause I didn’t stay up for last night’s game. Well, if I am going to stay awake, someone is going to have to talk to me. No, “Shut up, Paladin” is not good enough.
When no one would talk to me last night, me and Chief turned off Firefox and went and got some firewater. Now, if this guy can rip a cabinet sink up and throw it through a window sober, you can imagine what he’s like when he has been in the firewater. Prez Boosh is flying over tomorrow to see if we qualify for disaster relief.
Why don’t y’all use that money that was already pledged to fly Lew in for the presentation, which he can’t come for and which won’t be, to fly me and Chief in for the game? Chief is a big Braves fan. I just haven’t told him yet that they are a baseball team. Why don’t some of you resident psychiatrists and philosophers tell me how to break it to him without getting “broken up”?
But, in the meantime both me and Chief say GO BRAVES!! Right, Chief?
By Anders
August 22, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
nscoots Speaking of Steven Hawking I heard JS is waiting for him to clear waivers. He’d be a 5th starter and could run for McCann in big spots.
Come on now - admit you’re picturing him “motoring” around third with the winning run.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
Anders I would tell you that you are a real smartass, but I would be flattering you and overstating your intelligence.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
I don’t know who voted on that list but anyone who thinks that Jim Edmonds at any point in his career was a better outfielder than Andruw is crazy.
By Braves Fan 79
August 22, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
Giving Redmen so many chances, andrew killing so many rallies, waiting so long to bring up escobar all the while giving woodcrap orr and wilson chance after chance (4 people that never should of been on the team anyways) (why didnt JS try and lure 1 good pitcher with the $ he spent in free agency….and depend on the talent in our minors to be our backups?)
I like how now yall finally see the wildcard is our only chance ….ive known this since since MAY!!
Were going to win tonight…but unfortunatly so will sandiego probably. Story of the season so far.
By BUSHWACKER
August 22, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Ok BravesDave , you convinced me, we might as well shut it down now and bring up the prospects for the rest of the year.
I don’t know about you and no doubt Hudson is the Cy Young winner, but in a playoff game I’ll take Smoltz and you can have any pitcher you want. I like my chances.
Let’s be positive,have some faith!
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Paladin, I doubt that in any way have you “ruffled my feathers”, whatever that means to you … seriously … I was just responding to your comment and trying to explain, in words and syntax that I thought you would understand, … that there has been no intentional modification in my posting behavior … that is to say, my current approach is consistent with the one used in the past, at least from my perspective … however, there is no formula, and except for some incidental exchanges, each situation is unique and purpose specific.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
Knowitall I couldn’t agree more. Jim Edmonds is over rated. The only thing he was the best at was timing a fly ball so he could just dive enough to make the ESPN highlights with out hurting his California pretty boy looks. How about Paul Blair? Gary Maddux?
By BUSHWACKER
August 22, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
Anders dude, God will get you for that. You better say sorry, is it getting cloudy above your head.
By ObiWanKobe
August 22, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Robert, They cut Sturtze a few days ago
By KC
August 22, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this
Focus on the Wild Card? Nope. Not Yet.
They shouldn’t focus on the Wild Card until the division is (reasonably speaking) unattainable… and we’re certainly not at that point yet.
As I posted earlier…
The Mets will send their 5th starter to the mound against Jake Peavy tonight. So we’ve got a great chance to take back the game we lost last night.
After tonight… The Mets still have to play 7 tough games before the next Braves-Mets head-2-head meeting next weekend. Tomorrow, the Mets will play one more against the Padres, 3 against the Dodgers (including a Penny start), and a four game series in Phili.
Meanwhile, the Braves are still looking at a favorable schedule for this road trip.
The loss last night hurt, and the Braves MUST go 6-2 over the remaining 8 games of this road trip. 3 of those games will be started by Hudson or Smoltz. So if we win those, we just have to go 3-2 over the other (non-Smoltz/Hudson) games.
Obviously, we’ll have to get something better out of our starters than what Reyes gave us last night… but 3-2 in those non-Smoltz/Hudson games is not a lofty goal. Especially when you consider that (unless Arroyo is on top of his game tonight)… we’re not going to see any particularly good starters for the remainder of this road trip.
The one possible exception would be Wainright for the Cards, but he’s scheduled to be opposed by Hudson.
If we can go 6-2 on the remainder of this trip, and have another good series against the Mets next weekend… we could easily be 3-1/3 or 2-1/2 back on September 3rd… with almost a full month left to play at the point (including another H2H series against the Mets).
So no… it’s not over. There’s a hole to climb out of for sure, but no reason to cash it in just yet.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this
Bushwacker There is no God. Let’s be honest if there was wouldn’t the Braves be in first?
Anybody disagree?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
Mets Rule, don’t get too cocky, my friend. I wouldn’t buy those World Series tickets just yet. Heck, I wouldn’t even buy NLDS tickets just yet. A lot can happen in six weeks.
By Pavard
August 22, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
THE BRAVES NEED TO FOCUS ON WINNING THE WILDCARD AND DIVISION WILL TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES IF WE CAN JUST WIN GAMES!!
By eric the elder
August 22, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
If the Mets finish out the season playing .500 ball (wishful thinking), the Braves would have to go 24-12 just to tie them. That is also wishful thinking.
Forget past glories. This team is nowhere near as strong as teams past, especially pitching, which can only be described as atrocious.
The wild card is within reach, although I’m skeptical, but the division is a pipe dream.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
responding to your comment and trying to explain, in words and syntax that I thought you would understand
BJ Your problem, and ultimately mine, is that I “understand” you much too well.
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this
TheJackAss will presently remove his self-imposed banishment from the blog, and again return to practicing erudite verbalism with the greatest of impunity! … it looks like sanity had indeed returned to the Blog … or at least will presently so do; Gott sei Dank!
By The Truth Hurts
August 22, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
The statistic about the team’s longest winning streaks are all anyone needs to know about this team.
How many weeks has there been a back-and-forth about the Braves catching the Mets, etc.?
Exactly what has changed ALL YEAR for this team? You want to talk about permutations…that’s all this blog has been for nearly 5 months now…one big permutation of “well, if the back end of the rotation could just…”
It can’t.
NOTHING has changed.
Oh, the bullpen started out great, then sagged just as the offense picked it up. The starting pitching has been consistently inconsistent from the start. All of which results in the record that the team has after an illusionary 7-1 start. 59-59.
Exactly what is going to change in the coming 5 weeks? Tell me. “If Buddy gets back to…if Cormier pitches like he did last time…if James comes back stronger…”
If if if if if if….it’s been 118 games of “if.”
The division race has been over not because the Mets are good. They don’t strike fear in anybody’s hearts. The division race has been over because the Braves aren’t.
Three 3 game winning streaks since the break. Think that coincides with the ability of this pitching staff to get hitters out? One doesn’t need to compute the Cosmological Constant to know that the staff ERA is expanding because its pitchers—minust the obvious exceptions—aren’t that good.
Yes, we’re 1 game back in the WC. Great. Just make it in. I agree. Having said that, what realistic chance do James and/or Carlyle give us of winning against a good playoff lineup? You can quote the ‘01 Diamondbacks all you want. I’ll quote the other who-knows-how-many teams that lost with 2 SPs.
We keep expecting something to click on this team. We keep waiting to see the team “flick the switch.”
You know what the definition of insanity is. Exactly how many permutations of that term are we guilty of?
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this
commentary from journalist jimmy smith -
whoa! not a very positive public relations move - not allowing the bloggers to present the blog’s official award - the wurlitzer.
this journalist’s enthusiasm for the event just went away.
journalist will certainly not be in attendance.
lew is a gentleman as well as a talented artist. it is lew’s creation and lew should determine the presenters.
nothing against dob and carroll but it is for the bloggers to make this presentation and the bloggers have selected worthy representatives.
the wurlitzer belongs to the bloggers. if dob and carroll do the presenting let it be a best of cox.
special note to grinch and kc. both bloggers are still top-tier from this journalist’s perspective, please ignore the slight and forgive the offenders.
but don’t go to the game.
By Del
August 22, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
Paul Byrd (SP Cleveland) is 11-3 going into tonights game against the Tigers. 11-3 against AL lineups! He sure would have looked good as our #3/4 man. Didn’t we turn up our nose at him last winter? Ain’t hindsight wonderful.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this
on the field tonight: the hahira dairy queen staff and the henry county water department and the lumber cutters union and the red hat ladies. but no bloggers. oh, the slight! oh, the humiliation! oh, the unwashed! might surprise the ajc and braves who some of these bloggers are. grinch ate 12 krystals once.
By TennesseePaul
August 22, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
KC: Mets still have to play 7 tough games before the next Braves-Mets
I assume in the “7 tough games” you are including the Dodger games, in which case I would disagree and say the Mets have only 4 “tough games”. A 2-2 split with the phillies would be nice though. But I won’t be the least bit surprised to see the Mets roll over those punchless Dodgers with a sweep.
I’m not going to get my hopes up based on the schedule of other teams. The Braves only duty is to win the game they are playing.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
KC
The one possible exception would be Wainright for the Cards, but he’s scheduled to be opposed by Hudson.
He is facing Jo Jo Reyes Sunday at 2:15PM.
Unless LaRussa switches it up. Smoltz faces Kip Wells in the opener and Hudson faces Joel Pineiro on Saturday.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
Then, still hungry, he ate some burgers, too.
By Train Wreck Bystander
August 22, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Play every game like you have to win it, accept the fact that you can’t, hope for the best, plan for the worst.
If you give 100%, you can always hold your head high, knowing you gave it your best shot.
So simple, and yet so complicated.
Simply put, it’s time to focus on winning one game at a time.
By ChampDawg
August 22, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Do the freakin’ math ….. I’ve been waiting on an opportunity to post all day. The Mets are 71-53 (.573) with 38 games remaining. If the Mets continue at this rate (.573) they project to have a record of 93-69. The Braves (66-60) have 36 games remaining. Should the Mets remin on pace, to win the division the Braves would have to win 28 of the remaining 36 games!!! It ain’t gonna freakin’ happen. The Braves and their sorry-@$$ 3-4-5 in the rotation are toast. Even if the Mets were to win only 1/2 their remaining games, the Braves wiould have to go 24-12 the rest of the way to catch them. You can’t do that with only 2 decent pitchers.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
BUSHWACKER, I would take my chances with Smoltz against any opposing pitcher in the regular season, too, not just the postseason. But facts are facts, and right now the Braves are 5-8 in Smoltz’s last 13 starts. That is all there is to say. The Braves are not even taking advantage of having their co-ace on the mound right now. All this crap we spew on and on about the 3rd, 4th, and 5th starters and this team cannot even win consistently win Smoltz on the mound lately.
Can’t be positive about that.
By KC
August 22, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
Efrim: I see you point about not worrying about the Mets, but… it’s the BRAVES who can’t afford to worry about them. We the fans can talk about whatever, and it doesn’t affect anything one iota.
Reyes vs. Wainright? Are you sure? I projected the rotations a couple days ago and may have been off. I hope you’re wrong! =)
More than that, if Reyes is going to get another chance, I sure as hell hope he give us more than last night!!!!!
If he can calm down and get his control… well… under control, then he may be able to help us. But I’m holding my breath. I think he’s got a chance to be a good one, but he might not be ready yet.
By KC
August 22, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
TennPaul: Penny will be starting one of those games for LA. You don’t think that qualifies as a “tough game” when you have face one of the two top candidates for the CY?
By Lew
August 22, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
Esteemed Journalist and Grinch-It is not the AJC that is doing the presentation. It is the Atlanta Braves’ Public Relations Dept.. They requested that Carroll or DOB do the presenting. I realize we’re all kind of questioning the fake T Shirt contest, but AJC had nothing to do with this, so they shouldn’t be blamed. What everyone who is going to the game needs to do is to show up in time for batting practice when the presentation is made. Carry signs saying you blog with Carroll and David. That’s where you make your presence known. Besides, someone better go to take pictures for me.
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
My Lady, thanks for making my day …. the incredible little kid was truly that!! Do you know the link?
I’ve got 4 deuces with an ace kicker but I was focusing so hard on winning tonight’s game that I forgot what was wild … perhaps my focus is wrong but I’m standing pat!!
By gotigers72
August 22, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this
Definitely time to focus on the Wild Card. The 3-5 spots in the rotation keep the Braves from being able to run off a streak good enough to overcome a 6 game deficit. But they are only one game behind in the Wild Card, with only two teams ahead of them.
The idea is to get into the playoffs. Wild Card teams have won the World Series before, and in the playoffs, the rotation will be cut down from 5 to 4 or maybe even 3. And the Braves have as good a 1 and 2 as anyone in baseball. Maybe they would get lucky and a 3 or 4 or both would throw a good game. And with the offense the Braves have, they could go places. Maybe overcome a bad start by a 3 or 4 with that offense. Just get in.
By Novice Ned
August 22, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
I hope Cormier realizes that tonight’s game is a dual audition for a spot in next year’s rotation. Arroyo may very well be purused during the off-season, especially if Reyes and Cormier prove to be unworthy of pitching during the swan song season for Cox. Anyone thinking there will be patience next season is fooling themselves. You only have to look at this year to see how Bobby is managing with a sense of urgency we have never experienced in the past.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
Braves fans A few weeks back many were taking pot shots at Minaya for picking up what I believe many of you described as an old washed up second baseman named Castillo. Now that a few weeks have passed and he’s been with the Mets for 19 games let’s review this old mans stats:
10 RBI vs. the 18 he had in Minny over 85 games 15 runs scored 8 walks vs. 2 Strike outs 3 stolen bases Avg. - .324
Mets record since he’s arrived 12-7 That’s .630
Me thinks Mr. Minaya knew just what the Doctor needed to order. It’s no coincidence that the Mets offense has begun to surge with the addition of this professional number 2 hitter. You can see for yourselves in about a week.
By Train Wreck Bystander
August 22, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
ChampDawg
6 of those remaining 38 games are head-to-head against the Mets. That skews things a bit and makes the Braves winning the NL East a lot more attainable.
FWIW, 6 are also against the Phillies.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
and why is the grinch being denied this honor?
Now, please don’t ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be that his head wasn’t screwed on quite right.
It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were to tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.
is that the reason? is it? why no grinch and kc at the presentation?
bloggers, where is the outrage? only this journalist feels this way?
troublemaker? squeaky wheel? only this journalist?
By Carolina Lady
August 22, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
jjs, you raise some valid points. The Wurlitzer is the product of this blog’s denizens, most notably LEW. (The name of the award itself came from none other than jjs, for those who do not know.)
When I read that not even one representative denizen would be allowed to participate, I knew immediately that this will be an AJC/Braves presentation, period.
I am most unhappy that Lew will not receive the recognition that he richly deserves.
I doubt these 2 kids have much of a clue what a “Wurlitzer” is, what it’s history is, it’s significance, or anything about the extremely talented, unselfish artist who gives so much of himself.
Further embarrassing Lew (sorry, my friend!), many of you may not know that he has suffered great loss of vision in one eye, has undergone many operations and other procedures in efforts to save even a little vision, and it is a continual battle to stave off blindness in that eye.
And he GIVES these beautiful portraits as GIFTS.
I’m sure there is a reason given, but I find it interesting that ONE representative blogger (Grinch) will not be allowed on the field for a few minutes, during batting practice, to present Lew’s TWO portraits to these boys.
DOB, do us proud.
My two cents.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
I am in agreement with those who say the Braves would have to be better than good to catch the Mets. Expectcing the Braves to go 24-12 the rest of the way is a bit optimistic. It could happen but nothing as far as I can see would lead me to believe that it would happen. The wild card is a better proposition for the Braves. I believe 88 wins will get the job done. Even with that the Braves would have to to 22-14. In reality 85 wins could be the win mark that clinches a wild card berth. If that is the case, the Braves would have to go 19-17. That is realistic.
I do have to wonder if there isn’t a bit of friction in that clubhouse. The offense has to be aggrevated at the fact that they bust their behind to score runs only to watch the pitching (sans Hudson and Smoltz and Mahay and Moylan most of the time) p** it away.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this
No one should expect 85 wins to get the wild card. Do not hold your breath on that one. 88 at least.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
I’m afraid too many of our bloggers have “borrowed” from Al Davis: JUST WHINE BABY
By ChampDawg
August 22, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Train Wreck— your logic is bull—-t. Even if the Braves win 4 of 6 against the Mets and Phils, they only gain 2 games in the standings against each. Sorry. We have a much better chance catching the Phils and competing for the wildcard but we’re 7 games back in the loss column and you can’t make that up in just 36 games left with just 2 decent pitchers.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
Efrim I agree. Too many teams still in the hunt for someone not to get a little hot. 4 games over .500 or so the rest of the way.
By Mr. Right
August 22, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
Dammit Anders,
You little weasel. Once and for all, you can’t have my job. You have to be right all the time, not half. Mr. right also does not gloat when he is right, which is all the time. You get it right 52% of the time and you’d think you conquered the damn planet. Settle down and get back to work. How did you get an internet connection in your toll booth anyway? And smile and say thank you when your customers tell you what an a***** you are.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
Chris Young has to see a back specialist and will miss at least 1 start.
Cole Hamels to the 15 day DL.
No excuses. The Wild Card is there for the taking. We can get to the World Series if we make the playoffs.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
I said this earlier and have said many times in the last few weeks. Despite the scoffing some will provide winning series is the key to the Braves doing what they need to do to get into the playoofs. The Braves have 11 series left plus these two games with the Reds. One of those series is a two game series with the Nats and another is a four game series with the Brewers. If the Braves can win 6 of the 9 three games series and not get swept in the other three they would have a record of 15-12. If the Braves split in the other two series, that would make their record 18-15. Now, it is possible the Braves win the remaining three games (2 vs Reds and a doubleheader). The Braves would be 21-15. That would give them 87 wins. A 21-15 record is definitely attainable even with this horrible starting pitching. Question will be are 87 wins enough to win the wild card?
By Sir Stealth
August 22, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
If you take any satisfaction in thinking that you were the first to jump ship on the Braves winning the division and others are “behind” in thinking about the wild card, then you absolutely should not call yourself a Braves fan.
The Braves don’t have to focus on either the division or the wild card. They just need to win games. If they win a lot and win the right ones, then they can still win the division. If they win like the solid, winning team that they should be, then the wild card shouldn’t be a problem. If they don’t get into the playoffs, it will be a big, big disappointment and due to not playing up to their ability, not because of any gaping holes in the team that some crappy fan raced to be the first to call three months ago.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
I’m not saying someone is going to break off 24-12. But the Phillies or Padres are going to win at least 87 games. At least.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
Mr Right - Your welcome.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
Robert(JITB),
It’s going to be close. But I will have to say no. I can’t imagine 87 wins getting the Wild Card. Although the Phillies and Padres can’t afford to lose their aces for a month.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
Beautiful tribute to Lew, most esteemed lady. I, for one, did not know that the Lewster was fighting this battle, but I wish him all the best and, hopefully, an eye-opening conclusion. All I know is that I would/will take Lew on my team with one eye over the two hands, two eyes and two mouthed huckleberries that pick at him, and us. Com’on Lew, we’ve got to “see” MR take us back to the promised land and the Braves add another WORLD CHAMPIONS banner at the Ted.
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
RJITB … there may well be some friction as a result of the pressure associated with being behind with time running out … but I would think to suggest that it might be perceived by the offense that the pitchers aren’t making the same effort would be a stretch.
Some of Andruw’s comments earlier in the season might have led you to ponder the possibility but if any such thing surfaces, I imagine we’ll find that there’s really no friction, just some minor misunderstanding that will be quickly resolved.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
The Chris Young injury may or may not hurt the Padres that much but Cole Hammels going to the DL for the Phillies is a huge blow. That would mean the Phillies rotation will be: Garcia, Kendrick, Durbin, Lohse, and? Will the Phils be forced to place Myers back in the rotation? If they do, then their already shaky bullpen will be even shakier. This sounds bad, but its nice to see other teams having pitching issues like the Braves do. Hammels will likely miss three starts. This is the window the Braves needed.
By Ron Roberts
August 22, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
KC… the Braves have been looking at favorable road trips and favorable homestands all season-long, and have yet to meet expectations.
Outside of the 7-1 start, we’re a .500 club. Since adding Mark Teixeira, we’re basically a .500 club.
I was listening to Fox Sports Radio on the way into work this morning and Larry Garner (Houston Astros’ manager) was on and he said (and I agree) that teams who get to the postseason almost always have to have a winning streak or near-unbeatable stretch to get in.
Boston’s longest winning streak of the season is only 5 games, but they do have stretches where they’ve won 8 of 9, or 12 of 16.
The Yanks had a 9 game winning streak.
The Indians only have a 6-game winning streak so far this season, but did win 11 of 13 in April/early May.
Detroit enjoyed an 8-game winning streak.
The Angels enjoyed an 8-game winning streak.
The Mariners enjoyed an 8-game winning streak.
The Mets only reached a 5-game streak, but did enjoy a 15 of 21 stretch, too.
The Phillies won 9 of 10, and 8 of 11 (twice).
The Cubs have won 7 in a row once, went on 9 of 11 and 8 of 10 tears, too.
The Brewers won 6 straight once, and 10 of 12 (twice).
The Padres only have a 5-game winning streak to point to thus far, but did win 10 of 12.
The Diamondbacks had won 11 of 12, 10 of 11, and 6 of 7 (all in different stretches).
Our beloved Braves? Well, the 7-1 start was followed by an 8-9 stretch.
The most-recent 5-game win streak followed a 5-game losing streak, and was then followed by a 3-game losing streak.
An earlier 5-game win streak was followed by a 1-5 stretch, essentially wiping out the gains.
We even have a 7 of 8 string, but that was met with losing 5 of the next 7.
By Anders
August 22, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this
Robert JITB The Mets certainly beating the Padres 3 in a row would help that which is what I’ve been trying to explain to the guys on here for two days who would rather see the Mets lose and cost the Braves the WC just to spite the Mets.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
We won 12 of 16. That was around the all star break. I understand what you mean though. It is mind boggling. I have no idea why this team can’t run off 8 wins in a row. It would help so much. Maybe tonight is the start. Of course I said that Sunday before Smoltz’s start. We just need to win a game where they don’t start a game. Get some confidence back in our other starters.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
actually, lew is wrong. it is lew and the bloggers that are doing the presenting - not the p.r. department for the braves. they should be grateful for the blogger fans.
lew is a better man than this journalist. jimmy smith finds no comfort in “the braves requested that dob or carroll do the presenting.”
that’s when dob stands up and says, “no, we need a blogger to make the presentation.”
sorry, journalist will not be appeased. some things are right and some things are wrong. grinch and kc being passed over is wrong.
and why are these fine bloggers being passed up? afraid grinch will pick grinch’s nose? afraid grinch will pick kc’s nose? what is the problem?
who’s to say that dob and carroll will not pick noses? they certainly are around it a lot.
oh, the humanity! this journalist feels like a crusader tonight.
By heath
August 22, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
the best chance for the braves is the wildcard. in a odd way, the mets could be the braves best hope to make the playoffs. it is better if the mets beat the phils AND the padres. so, begrudgingly, go mets.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts, you hit the nail on the head. The reason for the Braves struggle is simply the backend of the rotation. The only hope I hold is that those guys will go on a tear. Like Wesley Snipes said in White Men Can’t Jump, “Even the sun shines on a dog’s a** somedays.” Well, the sun has yet to shine on the backend of the Braves’ rotation.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this
Anders, I agree.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
Anders Do you ever work? I know that you are a self-proclaimed “boss” and/or “owner?” of a “very successful business”, but don’t you have anything to do? No paperclip chains? No shooting baskets with wadded up paper? Don’t they ever even bring you anything to sign? We “love” having you with us almost non-stop, but would hate for you to lose your company and have to go to work. Maybe on the same shift with the “Drooler”. Now get busy this instant.
By monty
August 22, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this
DIfferent teams handle pressure in different ways. I guess we are about to see what ther Braves are made of. Adversity doesn’t make character, it simply reveals the character that’s already there. I’ll have to admit that I am troubled by the Braves’ record in one run ball games. When the game is close, it’s generally about which team wants it more.
By TennesseePaul
August 22, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this
KC: Much like Penny’s start against the Hudson was a tough game? He can be tough, but he is only going to pitch in 1 game, so I still don’t see 7 tough games. 5 max, but most likely 4.
The thing is, Penny can pitch 8 innings of shut out ball… All that means is the game will be tied 0-0 in the ninth. The Dodgers are not an offensive force.
By Lew
August 22, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this
Esteemed Journalist-Is not Carroll an integral memeber of this blog? Is not David O’Brien? It is their blog after all. If not for their efforts, this blog either would not exist, or it would be a mere shadow of itself. We must put things in their proper perspective. Not only should they represent the blog, THEY ARE THE BLOG.
The Braves are very aware that this comes from the blog-not just me. Every step of the way I mentioned the Man In Black BBQ Blog-in all correspondance with the Braves. Apparently there will be so much going on for this presentation (it isn’t just presenting my drawings that is happening here) that there may well be other considerations that make Carroll and David the most logical choice. Believe me, I don’t feel disrespected and neither should y’all. It’s only step one in our recognition. They are now aware of The Man In Black Blog!! Go to the game. Watch BP and watch the presentation. Carry signs. Take pictures. Video the proceedings. Create a record showing how much our blog cares for the Braves. If it wasn’t for those Braves, there wouldn’t be a reason for the blog. Would there?
By bill
August 22, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this
JS get off your a— and bring in a pitcher. Get Wells,Tower,Traschel or someone. It’s time to s—t or get off the pot. It’s ashame to waste all this offense and go nowhere. The pen is in shambles because of 3-4-5 starters. It’s to late to think about giving Oscar a chance. Until he is stretched out, he wouldn’t last 3 inning’s.
By Ron Roberts
August 22, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this
Efrim… thanks for picking up the one hot spell I’d missed. But to prove my point that we’re basically a .500 squad…
…while we did go 12-4 around the All-Star break, we had a 5-game losing streak before that, and a 3-game losing streak after it.
Net result?
12-12. :)
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this
well, journalist will crusade no more if lew feels as lew says lew feels. lew is a gentleman. journalist would treat lew better though if journalist was in charge.
By ArkyTech
August 22, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this
Jim Edmonds? Is that a joke?
By Ron Roberts
August 22, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this
Bill… Wells, Towers, Tracshel… all of ‘em have performed about as well as the options we currently have, and our current options don’t cost the team any more money and using them wouldn’t cost us any prospects or players in a trade, either.
By Gustopher
August 22, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this
Carroll maybe the Braves should make a run for the title and the wild card will fall into place
By Curt Moore
August 22, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this
It’s wild card time. It will take a miracle to overcome the 6 games deficit with the Mets. Our pitching just will not get us there. We do have a chance at the wild card spot. If we do make the playoffs, then our 2 pitchers could carry us through to victory.
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
I have returned to find the esteemed journalist in my (our) corner, and the lovely lady from Carolina as well. While I strive not for fame (I am but a humble Grinch), I think it only fair that Lew get some recognition and at least a &%#@ing signed baseball. The blog itself should also be worthy of a tip of the cap. I’m starting to feel like we’re the internet equivalent of Mr. Bojangles. Should we now do a little soft-shoe for the Braves.AJC.Corporate.Nazi.Facist.Blog? This is not a happy Grinch. Ok, perhaps that was a bit harsh, and it was the Braves more than it was the AJC, and I can understand on-field security issues. HOWEVER, there is absolutely no reason there couldn’t be a dugout or backstage meeting later, or an official videotape of the meeting sent to Lew, or SOMETHING. Bah.
Now, tonight we must win. And Paladin, buddy, I’ll pull a Jester to your Maverick here. If nobody else will fly with you, I’ll be your *^%#ing wingman. (in other words, I’ll talk to you if you stay up for the game).
Go Braves!
By Lew
August 22, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this
Thank You Esteemed Journalist and Carolina Lady- Good friends are wondrous to have. There is no reason to fear, though. Blog recognition is at hand and I’m not going to go blind. I do have some damage to my right eye, but I have enough peripheral vision that I can still do my artwork. CL just worries for her friends. Please go to the game and let them know you’re there. Maybe y’all should take any collected money and buy tickets for Grinch and KC. I know Grinch will let his presence be known. KC will help him not be recognized too much.
By GG
August 22, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this
Like i said earlier, these dreams of wild cards and playoffs and division champs are just that…pipe dreams. This is a terrible rotation after Huddy and Smoltz of course and our relief pitching is suspect.
By chipdip
August 22, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this
ARROYO will look like CY YOUNG to the Braves….pitch a no-hitter.
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 22, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
36 games left , Hudson and Smoltz will start 15 of those 36. Basically , our two War horses have to go undefeated the rest of the way because the rest of the rotation hasn’t won a game in two weeks. Cormier does have a fresh arm but it remains to be seen what he can contribute. Considering the fact that it’s August and Cormier is still an unknown factor , that ain’t good. 66-60 with 36 left to play .500 ball = 84-76. I’m sorry folk’s , our starting pitching just isn’t up to the task. I believe the wild card will require 88 wins at minimum. That would require the Brave to play .600 ball , something they have not done since 2003. do the math , it ain’t happening.
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this
My Lady, your two cents … is old money and perhaps not fully appreciated by the first generation wealth crowd!
Lew’s talent is a given but it must take a backseat to his heart, sincerity, generosity and passion as a fan of the Braves … it’s a singular honor to have him as my friend.
It’s not to be expected that the boys from Auburn, the Braves, or the AJC
will fully appreciate the feelings associated with the award and its presentation … and because of some of the associated surface levity, I imagine that also holds true for many casual bloggers … but, it is an honor seriously given, an expression of genuine appreciation from us to them for a special achievement.
As its initial recipient, and one involved in the special tribute to Bobby Dews, David O’B is one of the few who can fully appreciate what I’m so inadequately trying to convey … it will be a travesty if it is treated “matter-of-factly” and Lew and The Grinch are not recognized and given the opportunity to participate in the presentation.
Nothing can detract from Lew’s fine work but it would certainly add something to the mystique of the award, and the Blog itself, were our mentor to make a special effort to see that proper recognition is given and their participation endorsed and guaranteed; to say nothing of the positive impact it would have on the Blog membership.
Just my two cents …
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 22, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
Hello to the lovely Carolina Lady…
TheJackAss will offer a few thoughts on the Wurlitzer situation…although the presenters of this prestigious award may not be those which were originally designated…I’m confident that either DOB or Carroll will represent Lew, and the bloggers, at the award presentation in an exemplary manner…that is if the true meaning and value of the Wurlitzer is distinctly conveyed to the recipients as well…
The love, the sacrifice, the time, and the effort with which Lew puts into the creation of each and every Wurlitzer…and this Wurlitzer in particular, is recognized and appreciated by those who count the most, Lew’s friends…the MIB bloggers…
The recipients of this Wurlitzer will come away from their experience relishing the excitement of having been recognized by the Braves for their catchy ditty…as well as being proud and distinguished “Wurlitzer award-winners”…TheJackAss hopes that after the exhilaration subsides a bit, that these two young men will come full circle, and have the class to somehow personally acknowledge Lew’s selfless gift…
Lew—TheJackAss has jabbed you on many an occasion…but you have always had the respect of TheJackAss…and that puts you in a very exclusive group…my friend…
By Interested Observer
August 22, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this
Score another one for the Braves medical staff. Nice to have you back Edgar!
Apparently, he never tested his ankle while taking a pitch during BP.
By chipdip
August 22, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this
NO RENTERIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Stephen
August 22, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this
Wow, who is doing the updates on the Braves page? Already a story about Edgar leaving the game 30 seconds after hit happens.
By RedEyedAndBlue
August 22, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this
Can’t get to a TV. What the heck happened to Edgar!
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this
Well, now I feel like a d-bag after reading Lew’s latest post. Ok, I’ll behave myself. I may even show up and support things. Folks who want to meet should e-mail me. For the 19th time, voton1066@yahoo.com.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this
Grinch ole buddy, you got it then. Just give me a “Paladin, you old farter, are you awake?” from time-to-time. Chief will do the rest.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this
do the braves need a new trainer? did edgar stretch before the game? do the doctors agree it was time for edgar to return? oh, the humanity! one pitch and edgar is gone. could be curse of the grinch - didn’t seem too happy with the organization in grinch’s last post. but grinch would never hurt the team. curse would be on the p.r. dept. and now, tender feet and tender toes and tender ankles - are not to be trifled with.
By HaRdTiMe
August 22, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
whats up with Edgar?
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Anders
August 22, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this
Paladin Thanks for the concern. I’m sure if my business goes belly up my friends that I’ve met here at this blog will take me in. You being the first of course.
By NW
August 22, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this
Coach, you said “do the math, it ain’t happening.” Forgive me, I’ve never posted here before, but I saw that and almost fell out of my chair. Here’s some easy math: 1. That’s the number of games the Braves are trailing the wild card leaders. I would not say “it ain’t happening” for ANY team within one game of the playoffs with 5 1/2 weeks to play. That’s just silly. Realistically, one of these teams in the mix will get hot. But “hot” means they will finish 10-12 games over .500, which means 86-87 wins. The Braves can go 21-15 (certainly possible) and win 87 games. Do they need better starting pitching? Sure. But it’s a weak league, with no great teams, and the Braves could easily bludgeon enough teams to win 21-24 games coming down the stretch. As an aside, with Hamels out for the year (it seems), the Phillies are done.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this
perhaps the braves organization will come to their senses and proffer thanks to lew in some other fashion. lew will be at spring training …
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this
Anders Of course we will take you in here at the home. How’s 2nd floor orderly sound? Good? OK, let’s start with my bedpan. Here!
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this
I’m going to make this point before we even score.I like the way the hitters worked Arroyo in the first.Make him work to beat you THEN if he does tip the cap.I just finished a great day Kayaking the grean river,now I start paying for it….ouch my back!!
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this
Who pitched for the Braves last night…JoJo or Cy Young? Listening to Boog and Simpson tell it, must have been Cy.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this
NW you are new to the blog but you will see that “Coach” and “Silly” go hand-in-glove.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 22, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this
Now we know why Bobby was being so cautious putting Edgar back in…..
By flange1
August 22, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this
Good Evening All,
Beautiful posts by CL and JJS on the Wurlitzer situation, but Lew, as usual, did us proud with his response. I agree with all concerned that KC and the Fabulous Grinch would have been superb at presenting Lew’s fine work, but I think Carroll andor DOB will also handle the job well.
I for one will be at the game. Grinch, I would love to buy you an adult beverage of your choice!
It would be great to have a large group at the game to put names and faces together. Wouldn’t we love to meet Mets tool and NCZ at the game? What fun we could have!
Lets win one tonite!!!
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this
So let me guess, the Braves scored 14 runs and 7 runs in the first ans second games of this series. Hudson pitched fairly well, and we know what happened last night. So what will happen tonight…how about Cormier throws another gem and the Braves can’t score any runs. Just a guess, but it would in keeping with their modus operandi this season.
By Julia
August 22, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this
What’s all this Wrolitzer talk? If you really want to h-o-n-o-r these boys then give ‘em both a SHRIMP SAMMICH. Fly ‘em in from New Orleans. Send ‘em by radio boy. Just get ‘em there. These boys are young and strong and not as easy to POOCH as SOME who eat SHRIMP SAMMICHES.
By DonCoburleone
August 22, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this
Wait a minute A-ville, are you telling me that we have a dominant offense? Then why are we only 6 games over .500 in late August???? Oh yeah forgot, we have 2 starting pitchers…
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this
Man, I missed what happened to Edgar. What happened to Edgar?
Paladin, just got a belated bottle of Old Smuggler scotch for my birthday; I’ll drink some for you. Nothing says fine scotch like three years in the cask. :-)
Cormier looked good in the first.
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this
Lew, I just saw and agree with the notion that Carroll and David are integral members of this Blog … and and certainly add to its mystique and uniqueness!
So too do Lew, My Lady, the Esteemed Journalist from Cordele, Uganda, The Christmas stealing superhero, The Most Honorable Southern, 10 Paul, the marvelous SSI Scribe, Nathan, Shaun Payne, HK, William Wallace, the Honorable one of the Savannah, Wayne in Utah … and so many, many more belong in that category … goodness, the list is almost endless!
No disrespect is intended when I say that THEY ARE THE BLOG, the entire collective of participants who have its best interests at heart, regardless of their perspective or level of participation.
Without the tireless and extraordinary efforts of both David and Carroll, it would be a far different meeting place indeed … but without you, My Lady, and the others, it wouldn’t be home!
By DonCoburleone
August 22, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this
Great post at 7:39 BravesDave, I was just about to post something along those lines… I could definately see that happening. Just painfully frustrating to watch a .500 team day in and day out - Win 2 Lose 3, Win 3 Lose 2, Win 1 Lose 2, Win 4 Lose 5!!! I’M GOING INSANE!!!
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 22, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this
NW , you can get back in your chair. Maybe you can explain to me how a team that has played 118 straight games of .500 ball will do anything different over the next 36 games , how? Explain it to me mathematically , please.
By DonCoburleone
August 22, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this
Wow, anyone happen to notice what Saltalamacchia did today in his 1st start at catcher for the Rangers??? (They’ve had him at 1B this whole time)… Yeah, he’s 4 for 5, 2HR’s, 5 runs scored and 7RBI!!
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this
That is a rough blow. He probably has to go back on the DL. This sucks. How the heck does that happen??? Now he won’t be back in the lineup until September 6th.
By Carroll Rogers
August 22, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
wrote a burst on edgar that should be up. but the braves official word is he “tweaked” his previously injured right ankle and will be re-evaluated today.
someone with the braves, not saying who, just said today he thought minor league rehabs were a good idea in situations like this. certainly looked that way in the first inning, didn’t it?
i’m getting a kick out of all the discussion about the wurlitzer presentation. you guys are king analysts, combing each and every topic, and i appreciate it. points are all well taken, and i’m prtty sure i’m correct in speaking for dave, that the two of us would gladly surrender the presenting duties to grinch and lew. but we’ll do whatever it takes to make sure the presentation happens. but hey, the situation is fluid. it’s not all been arranged yet.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Arroyo is at 60 pitches through 3 innings. Damn.
By Logan23
August 22, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this
Salty 4-5 2HR’s 7 RBI’s.
Leo checks into Bellview.
By Tomahawkin' Again
August 22, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this
What do you think Leo looks like right now with that 24 spot the Rangers have tattooed on the O’s?
By Carolina Lady
August 22, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this
SJA, very well said, sir. 100% class.
BobJ, you are a jewel, my friend!
DOB and CR are class people (from North Carolina, they are!) and will do a fabulous job for us all. My only concern is that a certain artist hereabouts gets ALL the great credit he is due.
Grinch and KC, the thousands of us’uns who can’t be there are depending on you to lead the way at the game! Photos are MANDATORY! (I have webspace for posting if needed plus photo editing programs, etc.)
Don’t we all wish we had Braves Blog T-shirts?! Somebody have a Diet Coke for me! :-)))
By heath
August 22, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this
the braves are making arroyo very hard, which is good. they aren’t scoring though, which is bad. we need to break through soon…cormier has looked fantastic through 4 full innings, but, how much longer will that continue?
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this
Grinch “In the cask”. I would just as soon you not bring that up.
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this
Adding two more cents on the Wurlitzer presentation: As Lew has so succinctly, realistically and modestly stated, the Tex singers PR event is a Braves thing and Carroll and DOB will represent the blog well and so forth. But I echo the sentiments of Grinch, Jimmy and the Lady. I too will refrain from the crusade. It would only trouble Lew I fear. Since Lew has prior commitments and since Grinch has graciously accepted, then he should represent. But it seems not to be in the offing. It’s disappointing, but sort of acceptable…no, not acceptable really, just understandable…sort of. Oh, the futility!
Who knows, maybe someone will see our pleas and step up and do the right thing and get the esteemed Grinch over there after all. You never know. We have not been mathematically eliminated.
If it were my blog I would make sure that Lew and all of the committee were there, limo ride to the game, wined and dined at the 755 club before the game, escorted to the owner’s box seats, AJC photographer in tow to record the event, autographed baseballs for all, group shots with the Tex singers, boiled peanuts for everyone, Cuban cigars, between inning massages by each pretty mascot girl (that’s shoulders only CL) and a meeting with JS and Bobby after the game for cordials. JJS, careful with the handshake with Bobby because of the, uh…well, you know.
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this
Nice to know you care, Carroll; I’ve got a disney-esque tear developing in the corner of my eye. :-) Really, though; thanks for popping up (pardon the pun) and pledging allegiance to the blog. You’re all right for a female journalist. :-P
Flange1, that sounds like a plan. Maybe they’ll let us plug in and play the SSB. Shoot me an e-mail.
By Dr. Ruth
August 22, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
Listen up, munchkins: A study came out today that today’s “older generation”, up to 85, are having sex as often (2-3 times a week)as considerably younger “sex machines”. Eat your hearts out, you shirkers. Or, maybe I should rephrase that.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 22, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
Whoa!!! As mentioned above, Salty finally had a breakout game in the ol’ AL. 4-5, 2 HR’s, 7 RBI’s, and 5 runs scored…Good for him! He has struggled a bit there, though he hit 2 homers last week.
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 22, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
Yes sir , that is Salty’s second two HR game this season. He has SUPER STAR written all over him.
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
Way to go Cormier, protected that lead for 0 pitches.
By Colin
August 22, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this
WOW…can we blow more leads?
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Heeeeey I’m a part of this blog too! I may not post everyday but I ready everyday. I’m usually so far behind that any point I want to make is mute by then.
Anyway, what day is the Wurlitzer ceremony? I’ll see if I can make it go the game.
By Salty
August 22, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Bob J, jjs, CL, Lew, SJA, SG, Grinch
Classy posts…all of you. You do DO’B and CR proud…and the rest of the ‘denizen nation’.
By Tomahawkin' Again
August 22, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this
Texas just set the AL record for runs scored in a game as they just put up another TD in the 9th (missed the extra point)…it’s 30-3! Leo, come home.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 22, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
Rangers 30, Orioles 3…..WOW….is this an all time record for one team???
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 22, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this
The Mets have four quality starters in Glavine , Maine , Hernandez and Perez. The Braves have two in Hudson and Smoltz. Cole Hamels just went on the DL leaving the Phillies with nothing. The division race is over , period. News flash ! The Rangers just scored 30 runs against Baltimore ,setting a new major league record for the most runs scored in a nine inning game since 1900.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this
Willie finally stole a base. Alriiiiiight.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this
30 runs is insane.
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this
WILLIEEEEEEE…you need to be scoring on that Chipper hit
By Colin
August 22, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this
WOW 30 runs…thats terrible….Come on TEX….GRAND SLAM
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this
If Bobby cox were coaching either the Rangers or Orioles tonight, I’m guessing in the 7th or 8th inning he’d bring in his one left-handed relief specialist to get an inning of work.
By EagleEyeCherry
August 22, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
Anybody else notice that crazy Julia returns only when SJA’s around, too?
By Todd A
August 22, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
The stupidity exhibited by this team night in and night out knows no boundaries.
Willie….wtf?
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 22, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
Just for sh** and giggles , the Braves are currently 66-60 and 6 games back. That reads 66606. A bad omen anyway you stack it.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
Dang it. Willie really cost the Braves there. Plus Chippers on my fantasy team. I needed that RBI!
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
Wow, this is like the Theory of Mediocrity….Bases Loaded + Less than 2 Outs = 0 runs. They story of the Braves season.
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this
Heath, we make Arroyo really hard? Not sure I’d advertise knowing that. :-)
Paladin: Damn, brother; you that close? I’ll start working on a eulogy.
%$#@er%$#@er! Bases loaded w/1 out and we can’t score again! Aaaaarrrrggggh!
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
That was a costly snooze on the bases,it cost at least 1 run.Well Arroyo must be close to 100 pitches.Work him hard in the 6th and we should get to the pen in the 7th.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
Talk about inconsistent. 1 run tonight. Cormier is throwing great. 41 pitches through 4 innings. Unbelieveable.
By J.D. Phillips
August 22, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
Saltalamacchia is the man. What has McCan’t done for us lately.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
hey.. lance is looking very good…… this is a nice surprise.
By heath
August 22, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
cormier has pitched fairly well… and arroyo has thrown a lot of pitches… braves should be getting into the bullpen in the 6th…. let’s get some runs boys!!!
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
Bob, Journalist: beautiful words and so nicely and sincerely put, those two recent posts of your were. The first brought a tear and the second, another.
Then comes along TheSouthernJackAss: Dammit man, what a great post. You words made me want to…well, aw shucks…give you a big ol’ hug buddy. Glad you un-banned yourself. Missed you lately.
And the most gracious Lady from Carolina: What would any of us do without you here? Living in caves to be sure.
Getting faklempt now I am…
By tbo
August 22, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this
Does anybody have the stats on how often this year the Braves have left a runner on 3rd with less that 2 outs? It has got to be a record. Nobody does it any more often.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this
Easy people……. this game is ours……. learn the lesson…….. a pitcher goes at least 6 innings and we will win….. lance is going to do that and more, as long as boby does not takes him out for some stupid reason.
By Colin
August 22, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
Good night CINCY!!!!
By tbo
August 22, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this
Todd A. You hit it right on the head about the stupidity of the Braves. And of course that comes from BC.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this
This is too much for my pride……… cant watch more of this.
By Fire Bobby
August 22, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this
PLEASE FIRE BOBBY COX!!!!! There is no excuse for playing the way this team is playing. Im tired of seeing them look like a church softball team as if they are just out there going through the motions. Someone needs to light a fire under these players and it will never be Bobby Cox. Yes he helped change baseball in Atlanta but 1995 was a long time ago people. We can not keep hanging on to that one championship year. There is no energy on the players faces and if someone gets excited they look as if they are going to get in trouble for showing some kind of emotion and not being ho-hum like Cox wants it. Im bored with this team as long as Cox is in charge. There will be no playoffs this year and honestly for as long as Cox runs the show. FIRE BOBBY COX!!!!!!!!!
By Todd A
August 22, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
If this team had an actual manager, instead of a cheerleader, he would have sent this team a message by yanking Willie out of the game for such a stupid play. That miscue just cost this team another winnable ballgame in a pennant race. The Braves need a kick in the seat of the pants right now. Willie’s play was unacceptable.
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
Most honorable southern, your detractors must be standing in awe … your 7:17, that my friend, is as good as it gets!
My Lady, such flattery will get you most anything you want … thanks!
Regarding my last post, it really and truly is a very long list … well over 50 additional names or masks that I was able to recall without reference that truly help to define the neighborhood … and I’m sure I’ve forgotten many others … but hopefully their omission won’t be considered a slight by those that thereon belong.
By Random
August 22, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
Soshichi Uchii, Kyoto University, says: “The strength of the former definition of probability in terms of time-average is that it has given the meaning of probability all in terms of mechanical concepts.”
Davis Potts Speas, University of Connecticut, says: “For each evidential ev, we might identify these probabilities with the average conditional probability (over all propositions p), given the common ground, that a situation of receiving ev-type evidence for p is a situation in which p is true.”
Bob, Journalist (August 18, 2007 12:13 AM) says: “I never put much stock in averages, especially when it came to probabilities.”
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
DOB If you say good hitting by Arroyo I’m getting Robert to throw his beer at you.
By Carolina Lady
August 22, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this
Paladin, Salty, Flange, kind words are appreciated! :-)
This lady is calling it a day shortly; tests scheduled at the crack of dawn in the a.m. Pre-dawn awakenings are somewhere in the lower 2,000s of my favorite things to do!
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this
Grinch You’re not talking!! Consequently, Chief has rigged the travois behind the mule and we are headin’ for the Land-between-the-Loons(Coach and Anders) See y’all if the buffalo ain’t runnin’. OK, Chief, mush!
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this
Friggin Braves. Put them up against any type of decent pitching, and THEY CAN’T HIT. Their hitting philosophy is decidedly to swing from their collective a*******es, meaning they feast on sub-par hurlers and struggle against anybody with a clue. That’s why late in games when the other team’s big guns come in from the bully, we do jack squat.
Any stat heads out there with a few hours to kill might try calculating the Braves’ batting average against teams #1/#2 starters versus the back half of the rotation, and against late inning guys vs. middle relivers. Obviously, like all teams, they would have better records against the scrubs, but if you were to calculate the same splits for all teams I’m betting the Braves would have one of the larger gaps in MLB.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this
Oh Jeez, here we go again…giving up hits to the opposing pitcher. This is simply INCREDIBLE. I mentioned this late last night, and now I am not joking…Tony LaRussa might hit his pitchers in the cleanup spot against this team. How many pitchers have reached against this awful excuse for a pitching staff this season???
Another night…another lackadaisical, unacceptable, non-playoff performance.
By J.D. Phillips
August 22, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
tbo
I am pretty sure they hold the record this year with the bases loaded and not scoring.
By heath
August 22, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
are the reds going to single-handledly keep the braves out of the playoffs?
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
Do you think this inning would have been so bad to cormier if braves could at least score 2 runs last inning?
I dont think so……….. I still think cormier is pitching very well…….. but what the offense did the previous inning has a lot do on what the reds just did. And im pretty sure we wont answer to that because right now they are all confused and distracted. This games is lost. This is the inning to take arroyo and we wont do because AJ bats this inning and they are thinking on how bad they have look the last inning.
By JasonInMaine
August 22, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
tbo: logged in to say basically the same thing…that and how many times have we had the bases loaded and not score? Oh well, there is always next year…
By GermanBravesFan
August 22, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this
Play-offs? With this pitching staff? … and we can’t even beat the Reds!!!
By Todd A
August 22, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this
Very predictable.A great scoring chance gets wasted due to poor base running, followed by shoddy defense and a couple of unearned runs.Now, since the Braves are behind…AGAIN…and the patience this team displayed in the first 4 innings will turn to one and two pitch outs by this offense.
By Colin
August 22, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this
What the….Andruw has hit the ball out of the infield..thats about a rare as us getting a hit with bases loaded and 1 out…
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this
Is AJ finally telling me to shut up????? i hope so. Really i hope so……. im tired of having to type “·%”·$”·$T&·$ about him
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this
Paladin There you are and I see you brought Chief along. We have a bone to pick, you and me.
So…night before last you stay up, watch the game and the Braves win. Last night, you wimp out, go to bed and they lose…after warnings and calls of superstitious effects pending. That game was on you.
Tonight is on you too pal. Get Chief to start that tomahawkin’ and rain dancin’ right about now. And put the toothpicks in those eyeslids cause you ain’t leaving again.
Now I’m going to eat. I’ll be back hopefully.
By the Good Doctor
August 22, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this
Dr Ruth
Viagra works wonders.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this
Grinch To hell with the eulogy, just bury me with a bottle of Scotch in each hand. Where I’m going it will be hot, dry and thirsty.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this
let cormier bat……and bunt…………. come on bobby dont do anything dumb
By Lew
August 22, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this
Damn-I’m gonna cry if y’all keep this up. Carroll has agreed to make the presentation and she is well aware of all the implications, ramifications and other whatnot that concern us here. She will well represent us. I want pictures, though. Just finished the first drawing and if I can figure out how to use the digital camera without it blowing up, I’ll post it in the next couple days. I wonder if they will give us a blog song-like Chipper has Crazy Train, to make the presentation to? What song should it be?
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this
why would a manager take his sp pitcher out of a game and put woodward in……..????????? isnt it the same????????
By Mark
August 22, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this
2007 IS OVER….2008 is the year…almost everyone back in the lineup, starting pitching can’t be worse, healthy bullpen …..
By Six Four Three
August 22, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this
The error should have been charged to McCann as Harris made a perfect throw. Harris simply was fooled on the play—it was a mental mistake—-not a lack of hustle.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
Now your SP that only gave 4 hits and was pitching fairly is out….. at least i dont have to see woodward again today.
By ernesto
August 22, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
Between Woodless and Thorman we have no bench.
I really can’t remember anyone contributing less over the course of a whole year than that piece of uniform filling.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
I am absolutely shocked…Chris Woodward just struck out. That never happens. He just can’t hit tough pitching. Oh wait, that was Mike Stanton.
By Jim Mora the Elder
August 22, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
**PLAYOFFS? PLAYOFFS? THIS TEAM AIN’T GOING TO NO PLAYOFFS!!!
By J.D. Phillips
August 22, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this
If it ain’t the starting pitching it’s the bullpen; if it ain’t the bullpen it’s the hitting; if if ain’t the hitting it’s the coach; if it ain’t the coach it’s is the opposing pitching, if it ain’t the opposing pitcher it is because a blogger forgot to wipe his you know what. Well you get the message…
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
Is that graphic correct? Cormier’s being pulled after 63 pitches? Let’s forget for the moment that Woodward (whose doing the pinch hitting) isn’t a better hitter than Cormier…is Bobby aware that the ^&#@ing bullpen is worn out and that a starter whose only thrown 63 pitches and isn’t screwing up might ought to stay in the game? Would someone, and I’m being completely serious, explain why in the hell this is happening? Please don’t come at me with the “Bobby’s a HOF’R, and thus knows things we do not.” Tell me any, and I mean ANY, legitimate reason this just happened other than Bobby just flicked a booger out so violently the gesture was misinterpreted.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
J.D. your kidding right. McCann has only homered in 3 straight games.
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this
The bullpen is completely gassed, so obviously that means we take out Cormier who has given up, what, 4 hits total? And of course, Woodward is the man. Unbelievable.
By Natu
August 22, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this
Replace Cormier by Woodward and then got a SO?? Oh kill me, it’s such a stupid thing. Our pen is overuse, why not let Cormier bunt and then pitch another innings?
By Ron
August 22, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
If we OWN the Mets, the Reds OWN us!!! Unbelievable!!! This is sickening!!! We are gonna end up with a Split in the BEST case scenario!!! Worst case might be we LOSE 3 out of 4!!! This team is crap right now!!! This team just FINDS ways to lose!!! This game aint over, but damn, this team acts like they are dead!!!
By gotigers72
August 22, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
That’s it for tonight, I can’t watch any more. Pitiful baserunning, no clutch hitting. A pitcher that has given up 12 homers in what? 4 starts? Pitiful. Have lost 4 of 5 to one of the worst teams in baseball,and it’s looking like 5 of 6 after tonight.
I have laid off of Roger McDowell, but think that it’s time for him to go. A “coach” is the same thing as a teacher. He has not taught the Braves’ young pitchers the fundamentals. Obviously he’s not a good teacher. We all had teachers that couldn’t teach, I believe he’s one of those. Here’s what he hasn’t been able to get across [teach]. 1 - How to keep the ball down 2 - How to keep the ball out of the middle of the plate 3 - How to pitch ahead in the count and 4 - How to keep from walking so many hitters. That’s just a few, I’m sure there are more.
Add up how many homers every pitcher but Smoltz and Hudson have given up. It’s an ungodly number. Heck, Cormier has given up 12 and hasn’t pitched that much, JoJo has given up a lot and hasn’t pitched that much. And they keep getting hurt by hitters that aren’t hurting anybody else. Brandon Phillips is hitting .277, yet he’s hitting about .500 against the Braves. Opposing pitchers are killing Braves pitchers, that CF from Arizona has twenty something homers, but he’s hitting .246, except against the Braves who he is hitting about .700.
Sorry Roger, if you can’t teach any better than that, it’s time for you to be kicked to the curb, and time for the Braves to move forward and get somebody that can TEACH, because this is pathetic.
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
let’s all, for a minute, enjoy the utter brilliance that is Bobby Cox.
On Monday, in an 11-3 lead, Bobby decides to pitch our only lefty reliever, after already pitching on Saturday in another blowout. Yesterday, he needs Mahay to hold a lead, and (possibly tired) he fails. THIS INNING, you have Griffey and Dunn both coming up, and Acosta is in the game. Now, a manager with a friggin clue would have pitched Acosta on Monday and perhaps could have pitched Mahay today.
Now, Acosta just got out of a jam, but that still doesn’t excuse this abhorrent lack of baseball acumen, instance # 4,310.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
Great job by Acosta(sp?)
By GT
August 22, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
What a ridiculous premise.
Which of the following best allow the Braves to be considered a serious wildcard contender?
a) the lack of starting pitching b) the overused, poorly managed bullpen c) the inability to put up a winning streak greater than 2 d) all of the above
Seriously, who isn’t a contender for the wildcard these days? The Braves are a .500 team (and lucky to have this good a record considering the glaring lack of depth in their rotation).
Let’s all rejoice that Homeboy Upstairs traded half a dozen pitchers out of the organization at the deadline to make us a “wildcard contender”. Here’s to 2011.
By Stinky
August 22, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this
Wow. Hope Farmer Jackass didn’t break his shovel after he’s piled it that high.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this
Nice comeback by Acosta. That right there is the value of a 97 mph fastball. Too many of the pitchers of the Braves staff can barely break 90 mph.
How about some runs from this playoff offense against this crap Reds bullpen??
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 22, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this
Man, I am sure I am not alone in saying Manny Acosta is looking very good!
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this
This kid acosta looks good to me.
I dont know how come there is people that defend bobby cox. His tactics are sooooooooooooooooo bad, I doesnt matter how bad is the back of the rotation. This team cant not underachieve so much with this lineup and tim and john in it if the manager is not the primary cause. PERIOD.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 22, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this
You know I just can’t put my finger on whats wrong with this team. Its like they have no fire in them. AJ is the poster child for this. Oh I just struck out and didn’t advance the runners oh well. Oh I just hit into an inning killing double play. Oh well. I just cant figure out what it is going to take to get the fire stoked.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this
Savannah Guy You are out of the loop. I explained earlier(on the other blog)why I went to bed. Get with it, and stop primping in front of that mirror.:-) And Chief is not a mascot and does not do the tomahawking thing. As I explained earlier, he is a big “Braves” fan, but he doesn’t know, yet, that it is a baseball team. He is bigger than SJA. Do you want to tell him?
Have a nice Twinkee, and hurry back.
By J.D. Phillips
August 22, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this
knowitall
I was and please accept my apology. Just upset over this game and the Braves falling apart towards the end of the season. Emotions get too high with me sometimes. I really wanted this team to go to the playoffs. I am not getting any younger.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
How come stanton is out there again for a second IP¿¿¿¿¿¿¿???? isnt that punished in this league? only 1 inning per reliever……… Thats what bobby told us last time we went fishing.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 22, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
You know, for some reason people want to bash Stanton….He still is a gamer, still has a good curve. He was very clutch in the playoffs for the braves. Wish we had made an effort to get him as well as Mahay….
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
Chipper looks horrible right now batting right-handed. Of course, they’re “buggin boog” in the booth, so plays are going by unnoticed on the field.
By Robert
August 22, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
He hee hee haw haw HAW!
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 22, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
I have put my finger on one problem this team has. They stink against good cureve ball pitchers. If it aint straight they aint great
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this
Carroll: Is it time to focus on the Wildcard? The quick answer: No.
It’s really time to think small. Not “small ball” per se, just doing small things that win games. We can’t, as competitors with backs against the wall, look at the Wildcard, nor do we focus on the pennant. I don’t think we should even focus on the game at hand for that matter. Sounds funny, but it’s about performance and action, not reaction.
Our Braves need to focus on each pitch, each at bat, each base running opportunity, each fly ball, each grounder, each relay throw and so on. If they do that as individuals and play like a team, they will win at bat’s, fielding opportunities, innings, games, series and…a playoff berth. Player focus is really key for team execution and wins. It really doesn’t matter where the competition is at any given time.
Focusing too much on the team you are not playing is potentially a huge distraction. They can’t watch the Mets, Phils and Padres while they play the Reds. Anyway, I’m probably repeating what 50 others have said. The idea is really about thinking small and succeed at what is right in front of you at the time. Do that and all the big stuff happens.
By the way, thanks for the kind words on the blog denizens and your thoughts on the Wurlitzer presentation.
By Ron Roberts
August 22, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
Nice warm-n-fuzzies from the assemlbage, today. Dunno what’s in the air, but it’s refreshing, to say the least! I tend to stay outta the music/Wurlitzer discussion, but I’ll toss my bouquets, anyhow.
Its easy for us all to get involved in baseball discussions/debates, frivolous dialogues and the such, but its always nice to take a moment and show appreciation for those we don’t usually take the time to give platitudes to.
DO’B’s a good guy, all-in-all, and the ring leader of this circus we’ve all grown to be so fond of, and fond of being a part of. Miss Carrol’s a nice change-of-pace, and always pleasant, too. Lew, Paladin, KC, Shaun, the Grinch, Efrim, Braveheart (and others whose names elude me at the present) have long been part of this corner of the world, and have always been fun to talk ‘ball with. I’m also always pleased when Carolina Lady steps in to talk baseball or just to be a whiff of perfume when the blog gets a little too musty.
To baseball… tonight’s game’s not going well, is it? And to top it off, the Mets/Padres game is on, and I can’t decide who I’d prefer to win that game, either.
Doesn’t matter if we can’t win our own games, though, does it?
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
Im having a cardiac attack here……. please tell me this is just a nightmare.
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
Paladin, I’ll defer to your wisdom; we all know nothing cures heat-induced dehydration like 80+ proof alcohol.
Lew, “Carroll…will well represent us. I want pictures, though.” Dude, I’ll do what I can. She said she has a boyfriend, but I’m awful charming and who knows what happens when the celebratory champagne flows? I’ll see what I can do.
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 22, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
You are too kind and generous Journalist Bob…TheJackAss in no way merits such praise…but when coming from you…TheJackAss humbly accepts…
You have helped TheJackAss to realize that not everyone is his enemy…
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
Just a question,is the team more selfish since Tex came on board ?Again just asking,it seems like they’ve done more hacking lately.It’s more ‘show me the money’ than money ball.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
YEs……… chipper is having some really bad swings…….. he is not performing well at the plate, something is bothering him.
By knowitall
August 22, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
J.D. I understand. I won’t give up on the team until they are eliminated but it certainly is frustrating watching them play this way.
By journalist jimmy smith
August 22, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
must be a johnny cash song. perhaps man in black.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
On the verge of losing 5 out of 6 to the Reds.
Let’s see…the Mets and the Phillies are losing tonight. The Padres lost last night. And the Braves are taking advantage by looking to lose both nights.
Just another bump on the road to the playoffs. Wait, this isn’t a road. It’s more like a hiking trail.
By William
August 22, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
I don’t know how much longer I can take it this season. First, there’s the pre-game interview with - of all people - Mike Freaking Hampton, still talking like he’s an actual player and he hasn’t pitched in over 2 years. Mike, for all that’s Holy, quit stealing that $14.5 million a year from the team, have some class and retire. Second, the Braves load the bases with one out in the fifth inning and get nothing - again. Third, Lance Cormier gives up two more dingers, a run scoring hit to Bronson Arroyo, a career .095 batter, then is late backing up the plate and costs another run when the ball gets into the photographers’ stand. Fourth, even though Andruw’s homer was actually helpful, all it does is remind me of the countless times he’s popped up or whiffed when the game was on the line. Finally, how do the Braves manage to make a fifth place team like Cincinnati look like Murderers’ Row? Focus on the wild card all you want, kids, for all the sheer talent the Braves have, they’re going to need bifocals even to glimpse at the playoffs. Even though y’all have broken my heart again, as the old Brooklyn Dodgers’ faithful used to say, “Wait ‘til next year!”
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
The team has no personality, they all look like someone said jojo look….. a deer under the lights of a truck.
By Robert
August 22, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
“but that still doesn’t excuse this abhorrent lack of baseball acumen, instance # 4,310.”
Obviously you’ve only been counting since this year’s All-Star break
By J.D. Phillips
August 22, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
A-ville Ranger
I don’t think their winning percentage record has changed. Same ole…same ole…500 ball at best
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this
SJA Are you forgetting me, your bosom buddy? Just because when somebody said you were the biggest @$$hole he had ever seen I, based upon your own size description, had to agree.:-)
By The Truth Hurts
August 22, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this
Gotta disagree with Sav. Guy. Sorry.
Focusing on each at-bat is not the problem. Starting pitching is the problem. If focus were all it took, all five guys sent out there would be doing marathon sudoku puzzles between starts.
By and large, small things haven’t cost this team games. Pitching has. Avoiding the middle of the plate or pitching down in the zone is easier said than done. Doesn’t help that we have but one guy—Smoltz—who can rear back and throw the ball by someone.
Acosta has a fastball and curve. Make him a starter. Why not roll the dice? Cox won’t use Villareal, who is our best option. Throw someone out there that can throw it by people.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
Thats more AJ like………. we are back to reality.
Here comes Thorman to KKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Anybody wanna bet?
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
Could we have a worse bench? Let’s see, top of 8th, down two runs, man on, pitcher’s spot coming up…and what professional, experienced hitter do we have coming of the bench? Scott freaking Thorman. And don’t get me started on Woodward.
By JJMB
August 22, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
Saltalamacchia tonight, 4-6, 2HR, 7 RBI, 5 R,BB
By John Minnix
August 22, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
The Braves season ended last night. They needed to win two of three at least to gain ground and momentum. With the Phils playing the Dodgers and the Mets playing the Padres, a winning series or a sweep would mean the Braves would definitely gain ground in the division or wild card.
Last night’s game was extremely winnable, and yet they lost. They lost just like they lost several of other very winnable games over the last three weeks or so.
I realize after tonight’s (inevitable) loss, the Braves are still only one back of the wild card (seriously, forget about the division already). The problem is that this Braves team would have to play BETTER than the Pardres, Phillies, Cubs, Brewers, etc to get it done. With our complete and utter lack of major league calibre 3, 4 and 5 starters, we are unable to put a winning streak together. One of the above mentioned teams will, and the Braves will fade quickly.
At least we have the Falcons. I forgot. No we don’t.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Wow what a rocket by Thorman!!!!!!!! it was about 50 feet behind ……… THE INFIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ill have to start watching another team, this is not productive…. only thing its producing is an ulcer.
By Ron Roberts
August 22, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this
Tonight’s performance should answer the question posed by Carroll with her blog.
Tonight, we’re given a chance to pull even with the Phillies (they’re losing big), stay a game back of the Padres (they’re winning big) and pull a game closer to the Mets (losing big to the Padres).
What do we do? Make Arroyo, Stanton and Burton look like vintage Clemens, Wetteland and Rivera in pinstripes.
I never thought I’d say this, but even with Teixeira, our offense is up-and-down inconsistent.
By Six Four Three
August 22, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this
Manny Acosta pitched very well. Tyler Yates is awful and will give up runs IMO. The guy simply can not pitch in the Majors.
By chipdip
August 22, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
Scott Thorman totally sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
For those that dont know how to swim im not sure what to tell you because the ship is going to sink tonight!!!!!!!!
Season over.. forget the wildcard people. We wont win that win winning 2 out of every 5 games.
By Todd A
August 22, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
“YEs……… chipper is having some really bad swings…….. he is not performing well at the plate, something is bothering him.”
Yes, it’s called PRESSURE. Maybe he senses this season is slipping away, and he is putting too much pressure on himself to try and carry the team.
William, truer words have never been spoken in your 9:18. Good job.
By chipdip
August 22, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
Its time to focus on next year.
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
HOpe the Reds bring Wickma…I mean Weathers in. We had some good swings off him last night. We’ve done very little against their bully tonight.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
How could we lose this game? and please dont give me the 3-5 spot crap. They are within reach and we do nothing. Well pitched game against a baddddddddddddddd team. That make us the reds punching bag…….. what a relieve.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
The Truth Hurts You can not disagree with Savannah Guy. He is a “made” man on this blog and anything he says must bring nothing but an affirmative nod of the head. Do you want the hierarchy to come down on you like a flock of crazed gargoyles?
By JJMB
August 22, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
30 runs. Holy molely.
By John
August 22, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
Todd,
You are a moron. Chipper has been on fire for weeks and has 3 hits tonight. First time watching the game of baseball?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
I hate to join the choir but I think it is pretty evident this is a .500 team that isn’t going to the playoffs. Your #5 starter keeps you in the game and you can’t score runs. This is so fu**ing frustrating. Something is wrong with this team. I don’t know if its the makeup of the players or if its the manager. But, something is not right. This team is too talented to look this pathetic this often. I don’t get it. Yes, the starting pitching is weak but its not all their fault. The Braves get good starting pitching and the offense tanks. The offense scores runs and the starting pitching and/or the bullpen tanks. This team lacks passion. I don’t care what anybody says. I don’t care how they say they care. I know what I see and I trust my lying eyes. This team just goes on like its no big deal. A little too straightlaced. Just like Kyle Davies said they were.
By Six Four Three
August 22, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
The Braves are, worst case scenario, only 2 games back in the wildcard. Best case, only 1 game back. The season is not over by any stretch of the imagination. I can’t imagine real Braves’ fans quitting on this team at this point.
By fastasballs
August 22, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
Here comes Wickman Jr ,once again, who the Braves will make look like Rivera Jr.
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this
Bloggers: Willie Harris, Lonnie Smith, baserunning…discuss amongst yourselves.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this
Well lets focus on the positive part, hhhhmmmmmm, positive, let me stay positive……. could you give me an hour to think about it…….im sure i can get something positive abut this night.
By geauxbraves2000
August 22, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
I see that also RobertJIB. I noticed after Tex’s HR the other night, Chipper barely gave him a hand slap. Very sullen.
Geaux Braves!!
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this
Player of the game…….BRONSON ARROYO.
Game winning RBI………Bronson arroyo
Braves Daddy…….. Bronson Arroyo.
Who is this guy? Their 1B? RF? 3B???
If only woodward would have hit it 450ft…….. he was so close……
By Robert
August 22, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
Let’s have a round of applause for the nice Scotty Thorman impression put in by Chipper Jones
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
I got it…… here goes the positive aspect of tonight game. The closer problem is solved, we dont need one, since we always lose and if we win we do it by 7 runs………..!!!!!!!!!!
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this
This team isn’t better with Teixeira.All they’ve done with him(other than go 10-10) is score a bunch of superfluous runs.Chipper just gave a critical out away in the ninth.Why would he reach for that awful pitch like a rookie ?
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 22, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
Geesh are the umps paid off against us 2. Geesh that was the most pathetic third strike I’ve seen since Eric Gregg. Im surprised Tex didn’t beat the guy with his bat. I wouldn’t have blamed him.
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
If you’re going to get called out on a third strike like that, on a relatively close pitch, you had better argue.
By Tomahawkin' Again
August 22, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
Are you ready for some football? Not going to waste my time with this team tomorrow night, I’m taking a break. Just can’t spend my time getting pi@#ed off every night, waiting and hoping that we’re getting ready to go off on a streak. We’re not that team, it’s not 1991, 1993, 1999, 2004, whatever. We’re now 1-5 against the Reds this year. Un-freaking-believable. It’s just not enjoyable rooting for them. I’ll be back Friday night, but for right now, I am on a Braves time out.
By Ron Roberts
August 22, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
The ball never crossed the plate agaisnt Teixeira. Weathers worked that paint, and gave Tex one pitch to hit (the foul).
SO that’s what an effective bullpen looks like, eh?
Our beloved Braves are now 1-5 against the lowly Reds. That’s the same Braves team some folks say will win the division.
It’s time for a slice of reality pie for those who still think that. It’s “wild card or bust” for this lot. I’ll stake my name to it.
And we’ve blown (yet another) golden opportunity to make up ground on both the Phils and Mets by not beating a team we’re supposed to be so vastly superior to.
By JJMB
August 22, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
I really like Tiexiera. He actually gives a šhit.
By Stephen
August 22, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
Another terrible call by another terrible umpire. I guess Tim Donaghy’s long lost cousin was behind the plate tonight.
By Vol
August 22, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
Well that last pitch of the game was only 8 inches outside. Nice call.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
geauxbraves2000 i said that in the 1st or 2nd game tex was here, he hit a HR and he tried to give a high 5 to chipper and chipper ignored him……..
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
I know I should go to bed, but I am wide awake and ready for some action. Is Julia still here? And what can I get for $10, a sno job?
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
Maybe that annoying Pepsi Maxx commercial that gets played every half inning is putting the Braves to sleep.
By flylikeeagle
August 22, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
MLB need to fire Brian Gorman. He is full of it and need to be let go. I wonder if he was betting the game or want to hurry up and go home. That last strike was not even in the plate. He’s a dumb butt umpire.
By Julia
August 22, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
Sounds to me like L-E-W needs a little cheering up. A nice SHRIMP SAMMICH might do him some good. SHRIMP SAMMICHES are t-a-s-t-y and SHRIMP SAMMICHES are f-i-n-e. Never mind the POOCH with L-E-W. I saw Bobby Cox on television tonight and Bobby is working on some serious POOCH of his own. Bobby can work on it while other teams are in the p-l-a-y-o-f-f-s.
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
The whole isn’t greater than the sum of it’s parts,at least not with this team.How many Reds position players could start for the Braves ? Griffey and Dunn maybe,that’s it.The record against these world beaters 1-5.Add the sweep of 4 by the Nats that’s 1-9 and there’s your season down the turd bowl.
By Chief Bromden
August 22, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
Chief glad to see Nurse Ratched preside over her Cuckoo’s Nest for the week. When El Hombre here, we forced to wear black. Chief like wearing black but Chief also like when Nurse Ratched let us be colorful cuckoos for the week.
Chief angry though. Chief feel Cuckoo’s Nest not getting recognition Cuckoo’s Nest deserve. Chief see no Grinch, no KC for Wurlitzer game. Chief feel AJC staff acting like lobotomized vegetables. Chief feel like pillow smothering AJC…
But Chief see Nurse Ratched will be presenter of Wurlitzer. Makes Paladin happy. Chief not happy though. Paladin keep trying to make Chief escape and fly away from Cuckoo’s Nest. Chief institutionalized. Chief no wanna escape. Nurse Ratched, please find alternative presenter. Chief need Nurse Ratched to mind ward to keep Chief from flying away from Cuckoo’s Nest with Paladin.
Chief Bromden also see Billy Bibbit back posting at 9:04 p.m. Chief no like Bibbit. Chief think Bibbit weak. Bibbit kill self when Ratched find him blogging and say she gonna call his momma.
By JDG123
August 22, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this
Well I’d say that about wraps up this season. I really do not consider tha Braves a contender for anything but 3rd or 4th place. Let’s hope that in 2008 we see some youth in the lineup and some starting pitching. I hope we just use September to get guys ready for 2008 and to evaluate what we might have on the farm.
By Ron
August 22, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Yea something is OFF with Chipper!!! I mean he does not show much emotion, but sometimes he shows a little bit, maybe a smile OR something!!! He has been acting like this for the past week!!! When Chipper get 3 hits OR if Chipper gets no hits he has the EXACT same face!!! Like I said he does NOT show MUCH emotion to begin with, but he is showing Absolutely ZERO emotion right now!!! I remember Monday night when Tex helped carry the Braves when he hit Both of his homers Chipper gave him a clap and went on to the dugout with his head down!!! I dont know What is going on, maybe it is personal!!! I think it is MORE than pressure!!! I mean the dude WON an MVP in the Final month of the season against our Bitter rival, and we have pretty much WON the East in past years in the Final week or 2 weeks!!! Its NOT pressure!!! He might be in a tremendous amount of pain OR personal life!!! Whatever it is he looks different!!!
By Robert
August 22, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Y’all are truly pathetic. Having nothing else to blame, it’s now that the umps are paid off against us.
Poorly prepared teams find ways to lose winnable ballgames.
Look at the bright side. There’s less than 200 regular season games left in the Donk era
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 22, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Overload, there are no positives right now. This team simply lacks fire. I don’t care what anybody says. They don’t want to be in the playoffs. I know I will get ripped and people will say how stupid that it is. But, it isn’t. Some players and some teams in general don’t do well under pressure and don’t have the hunger other teams do.
Lets be honest. Is that Yankees team really any more talented than this Braves team. But, looked what happened when Posada challenged their manhood. They responded. They started winning with a sorry a** pitching staff by the way. Why? The Yankees want it! They want it bad! You see it in their eyes. I don’t see that look in the eyes of the Braves and I defy anybody to tell me that they do!
By Julia
August 22, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Paladin, I am still here but I have been told you carry your little SHRIMP SAMMICH in your pants.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this
Chief When you said you were going to take a dump you meant it, didn’t you. Now, wipe your arse like a good Chief, get out here where you are supposed to be, and let’s get the hell out of Dodge.
By TennesseePaul
August 22, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
So, Pulled up game day, looked at the box score, saw the lead was given away and then buried under an error.
Weak.
Only thing this team has to do is beat a crappy team and it can’t do it. This is the last series of the season that is “easy”. All the rest consist of challenging teams. Perhaps the Braves only play up to the opponent.
Webb’s streak is done. 42 innings.
Weak I says.
I could toss 42.1 with my eyes closed.
I guess this means his Cy Talk is done right?
I like this Manny Acosta guy. He seems to be pitching with something to prove. Sort of the Pitching version of Yunel.
Starting to look like that Garland for Renteria deal wouldn’t have been a bad idea. I love Renter, but a pitcher would do wonders to this team.
Oh well, gittum tomorrow boys!
GO BRAVES!!
By A Day In The Life
August 22, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
I read the news today, oh boy. What the heck does 30-3 do to the Pythagorean? Somewhere a sabermetrician blew his mind out in a car.
I saw the game today oh, boy
About an unlucky team who failed the grade
And though the news was rather sad
Well, i just had to laugh
I saw the game
They blew their mind out in a park
They didn’t notice that the race had changed
A crowd of people stood and stared
They’d seen this race before
Nobody was really sure if he was from the house of Ted
I saw a game today oh, boy
The Mets army had just won the war
A crowd of people turned away
By Greg in TN
August 22, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
Evening folks…
It’s February 2nd all over again, Groundhog Day and Bill Murray, when he’s not driving a golf cart in Sweden while tanked up, is trying to get through the same day over and over and over. This season has that feeling to it.
We’re a snake bit ball club right now. Last thing I would have bet on was Edgar tweaking his ankle after one pitch. One. Don’t know what else to say after that.
On the Wurlitzer front. I too think it’s a shame that Grinch isn’t on the field for the presentation. I have all the faith in the world in DOB and CR and I know they’ll do us proud.
Buddy Carlyle needs to pitch well tomorrow night, that’s certainly the understatement of the season, but it bears mentioning.
Tex has all the right in the world to be angry with that last called strike from Brian Gorman. Shades of the late Eric Gregg there, but there were plenty of opportunities tonight and the team did not capitalize (another frustrating theme of the year).
CL, hope your tests tomorrow go okay.
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 22, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
Hello Paladin—TheJackAss has not forgotten about you…was here watching you hold down the fort in his absence…think you may have caught a couple of quick glimpses of TheJackAss too…
TheJackAss knows you’re always in the game, bringing the heat…but when you get in a bit of a jam Paladin…remember to take a little off your pitches…you will then begin to have drastic success against some of these “heavy hitters”…Semper Fi…
By Jeff R
August 22, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
If it hasn’t been said… “Time to focus on 2008.”
The trend line’s not looking promising.
Texeria, the Silver Bullet? Offense the key? It ain’t the bats that are killing us, it’s the…pitching.
By Lone Bugler
August 22, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
……… and the shadowy figure slowly lifts his horn to his lips…
…..the haunting sound of “taps” begins to fill the air……
By Robert
August 22, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
“I don’t see that look in the eyes of the Braves and I defy anybody to tell me that they do!”
I guess Cox mustve convinced them that even the division title is just a crapshoot, so why bother
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
The Truth Hurts Actually, I don’t think you really disagreed with me it seems. Everyone knows the dysfunctional unit of 3,4,5 SP’s are the single reason we are where we are in the standings, No disagreement there.
Without getting to long-winded (which is so easy for me), I’ll just say that Carroll’s question and my answer were more about team focus than area of blame. Back end SP’s are a tough handicap for sure.
To top that off and demonstrate a point: tonight’s game that just ended: we had how many…10 runners left on base? Sure, the starting pitcher technically lost this game but the lack of clutch hitting is what did us in. Adding salt to the wound and potentially changing the outcome to the game was the umpire (once again). Very bad calls on Tex. Now, with McCann up, two on and two out, what might have happened? Unfortunately and unfairly…we’ll never know.
Anyway, you make good points. I just think we were talking from different perspectives.
By Del
August 22, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
It is time, or rather it is past time, for our esteemed mgr to get off his behind and throw a violent tizzy. Someone has got to light a fire NOW!!! It sure won’t be our smiling A.Jones or our placid C.Jones. It has got to the point where I am going to join the growing ranks for replacing Cox. Some of his recent moves almost defy a logical explanation.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
Julia You heard wrong. I carry my meat loaf in my pants. You have me confused with Grinch.
By joebrave
August 22, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
I don’t have a clue,I wish I did but this is unfathomable,and pretty much inept….This has got to be the worst any team can play after a big Trade that is supposed to jolt you!!
Man is there is any way to get some arms in here??? Why is there no forethought,to pitching? I’m Telling you if these guys don’t start playing baseball,and stop playing gimme it is OVER!!! Hey Bobby how bout this for a rotation? Smoltz,Huddy,Villareal,Reyes,and Hanson…It could’nt be any worse or does that make too damn much sense????? and for goodness sakes Please sit that donut eating overhyped Andruw Jones down for a week!!I for one am tired of seeing that stupid smile everytime he strikes out!!!
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
Also on Chipper, despite John claiming he is on fire look at his swings the past couple of weeks…he is lunging and simply flipping his wrists at the ball. He is talented/strong enough that he can still occasionally drive the ball when he does so, but lately he rarely drives the ball with any balance. And from the right side, forget it. I think his thumbies are hurting and that may be what you are seeing in his lack of expression/emotion.
By BravesFanChris22
August 22, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Clearly the last strike was a horrid call. It was the same pitch that was called a ball just a pitch or two prior. It should’ve been ball 4 and McCann given a try.
I’ll admit, I’m just as upset as anyone would be, but being realistic here, Braves’ season ISN’T over by any stretch of the imagination. Its pretty much best to aim for Wild Card at the moment, but if by some chance Braves are able to start putting up consistent wins and I mean soon, the Division isn’t far fetched, but if that doesn’t happen, the WC is in the best interest to go after. I know I’m stating the obvious, but still.
I am a Braves fan through and through. Through thick and thin. Winning or losing. I’m not going to stop being a fan because of some troubles (irrelevant to how severe the troubles are). I think once September rolls around, I just feel they’ll turn it around. If the WC is the best chance to make it, by all means, I’ll be rooting Braves on.
I for one didn’t expect Braves to sweep Reds and the ones expecting Braves to sweep Reds, only set themselves up for disappointment. You can go with the what “ifs”, “shoulds” “coulds” and whatever, but the what “is” is that Reds with their new manager has improved a lot, so the Braves “should” sweep them isn’t a for gone conclusion.
I think Braves might be able to pull out a win tomorrow night and with that, they might be able to carry momentum into the series against Cardinals. That’s just me showing my patience and faith in Braves. I’m not going to give up until its over, whether thats if they make it or not. I really do want them to make it and I will keep rooting for them to do so.
By fastasballs
August 22, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
Another night of watching the Braves find new ways to lose a game. Almost every single time they get a good performance from a pitcher OTSH(other than Smoltz & Hudson) the offense hits the snooze button & rolls over. Not to be outdone, Cox also seems to do his best to make even dumber decisions than he normally does in games such as tonight’s.
Did the players get depressed when Edgar went down? I know I did because no matter how much potential Escobar has, he just can’t bring to the table what Edar can at this point in his career.
I don’t know what is wrong with this team, maybe they are just mediocre & I am too dumb to know it or maybe the effort & production by players & coaches is not what it should be. I know they are short on pitching, but when they get good efforts from guys they can’t produce & it’s not like Arroyo had Webb’s stuff tonight or anything remotely resembling it.
The Braves can only manage two solo homers off a guy who throws damn near 40 pitches in the first? He managed to get through the next 5 plus with only 60 more.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
SJA Good advice from one that should know. Thank you, friend, and I will take it to heart. Semper Fi to you, as well.
By Interested Observer
August 22, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this
For those in communication with the Braves PR Department I have a great idea for a new promotion. This one will be specifically for the players and should last the rest of the season. We’ll call it “Play Like A Major Leaguer Night”. Who’s with me??
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this
ijonathan worst commercial ever the ‘viva lost hard on’ sing along for viagra.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
Well. That wasn’t good. I know many people will say Cormier pitched well. But the correct analysis would be to say that is the best we could expect him to pitch against a team like this in their ballpark. The most frustrating thing about this loss is that we scored 21 runs in 2 games and 2 tonight. The even more frustrating part is that we failed to hit their late inning relievers as well. The Mets and Phillies lost, so I suppose that is a good thing but we are still 7 back in the loss for the division and 3 back in the loss for the Wild Card.
66-61
35 games to play
Time is running out. Now we have to win tomorrow to salvage a split against a team that is 14 games under .500 in the NL Central.
How can you not be pessimistic and negative at this point?
So much for that 10-5 stretch. Since that high point when we were 64-56 we are 2-5. Damn.
By bill
August 22, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
Decent pitching but where were the bombers. This is the most inconsistant team in Braves history. Acosta needs to be used more. They should bring up Ascaino. Need fresh arms in pen. JS, I hope you are happy with the statement, if we can’t out pitch them, we will out slug them. This is looking mighty dim.
By Stuart
August 22, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this
I am so sick of hearing about how the Braves are 8-4 against the Mets. Fact of the matter is they are only 1 above .500 against everyone else, and only 8 above .500 against the entire NL (discarding the inter league).
This team is terrible. Tex is no different than anyone else. He can rip bombs when they are ahead 4 runs, but when it counts he leaves the bat on his shoulders. Tonight was Terrible, the recklessness of Willie finaly killed us, it was overdue. The offesne is not any good unless they are WAY ahead or way behind and get fastballs to hit. This has been the most frustrating braves team to watch in many years.
Bad ABs, bad defense, bad pitching. Is anyone else here ready for football?
By Harvey
August 22, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this
forget playoffs we suck we walk the pitcher to start an inning we hit pitcher when he trys to bunt tonight beats us with a hit are relieve pithers suck when were winning last night when were losing they pitch great as tonight. woodward throman and yates should be off the darn team
By ijonathan
August 22, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this
Not that I mind more air time for Katy Temple, enough with the Edgar talk for now. Unless he acquires a 95mph fastball, his coming back won’t make that much of a difference.
BTW, according to Ms. Temple, Edgar said he heard a “pop” in his ankle and felt pain. He iced it after and said it was feeling “better.”
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
Savannah Guy See SJA’s advice to me. It is almost the same thing you said to me, months back. I should have taken it, then, but I was having too much “fun”. Maybe you can’t teach an old dog new tricks, unless you are Mike Vick. He gets his point across.
Anyway, you were both nice, and right, and I appreciate it.
By daxxed
August 22, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
Time to look forward to next year folks. This was the turning point of the Bravees demize. At the next spring training who ever is on the roster needs to learn to bunt. I don’t care if it is Chipper, AJ ( who most likey will not be here), Tex or whom ever. The Braves would be in the front of the wild card and only one game behind the Mets if BC would of had someone at the plate that could bunt in a run to win the game with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. Five seperate games the Braves could have won at home with just a single bunt. But instead they hit into game endings double plays. Two against the Reds at home just a few weeks ago before they got Tex. I stated then that there just was not enough time left to make the move. The Mets are running away with it again at this time, and the Phils are getting all their injured players back. So the Braves need to just face the music, and JS needs to realize that even though it was a great move to get Tex was a little too late to make the climb.
By Overlord
August 22, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
Robert that is what is said yesterday and earlier……. i have not seen this guy show emotions, they look scare of winning or something. They walk to the plate as if they know they are going to K. Bad thing was Edgar went down again, that guy is the spark that we need. AJ, thorman and woodward are sooooo bad that they should not take a single at bat for the rest of the season, i rather see the pitcher kkkkkk than those bad player, and i mean bad, even rafael belliard was a better hitter than woodward. I cant accept that thorman cant reach base, come on, what do they pay him for?
But the most important word you already said it FIRE, no urgency, they know they are gonna lose. They feel it in their bones.
But there was something positive…… Cormier looked better than james, i think if it was randolph, cormier would have pitched 7 again.
Never mind…….. season is over. This guys as you said dont want it They look as tired as if they went from city to city walking instead of flying on airplanes.
Congratulations to the bad Muts team and to whatever team wins the WC.
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
Paladin Alright now…watch yourself…goin’ after that Julia and all. I guess Chief went to bed and you got a hall pass from Nursy Ratchett. So are the boys still up watching Johnny Carson in the tv room? Are you gonna go all Nicholson on us tonight and make a run for it?
You gotta teach that Chief to get the rain dain chop chop going. It’ll keep him busy and happy.
Don’t get caught. Better to have a bottle in front ‘a ya’ than a frontal lobotomy.
By Chief Bromden
August 22, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
If it hasn’t been said… “Time to focus on 2008.”
Chief see vegetable… Chief have pillow in Chief hands… You know the rest…
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
Can’t believe we are now 3 out in the WC race. Still 7 out in the division race. 1-2 on a road trip people on this blog said we had to go at least 7-3 on. That would take an act of god at this point.
By No Mistakes
August 22, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this
The only way this team can win when 3-5 are pitching is to play PERFECT ball. If you told me the Reds would be held to 4 runs tonight, I like the Braves chances of winning.
Where the warning track in left field is hardly any further than a throw from deep short to first…. why the hell is Willie Harris trying to tag at second to go to third??? I was STUNNED when he didn’t score on Chippers shot off the wall.
Brian trying to apply the tag too quickly and the ball ends up in the camera well. Extra run scores.
11 men left on base.
With a 5.00 earned run average, the Reds’ relievers rank last in the National League as of August 7th.
Braves scoring practically NO runs on the Reds pen the last two nights.
Not pretty. Not encouraging.
By Brad in MT
August 22, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
I cannot believe that this team can play so inconsistent and STILL only be 2 games out of the Wild Card. With Hammels and Young going on the DL, the Phils and Padres aren’t going to improve, but will probably fall back even more. All we need is one good run…this team has to have one in it doesn’t it?
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 22, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this
Since August 1st : Hudson/Smoltz 6-1 3.50 ERA and seven quality starts. Everybody else : 2-6 7.39 ERA and one quality start. I would include July’s stats but that would really get ugly.
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
Last year, the bullpen and Tim Hudson was the problem. This year, it is a number of things. The #5 starter is not the only thing wrong with this team. I know that is the easy way out in blaming our 66-61 record, but lets be real. We are 10-10 since the Teixiera trade. To say it didn’t have the effect we were hoping for is an understatement.
By Robert
August 22, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
“It is time, or rather it is past time, for our esteemed mgr to get off his behind and throw a violent tizzy.”
Heck yeah. Last two Donk sh&t-fits resulted in W’s
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
Y’all, Smoltz gets that call all the time. Yes, it was questionable, but it was too close to take and more importantly, THAT WASN’T THE PROBLEM. Bases loaded with one out in the 4th and not scoring was the problem. Pulling Cormier in the 6th after 63 pitches when he wasn’t struggling or tired thus needlessly overtaxing an already overtaxed bullpen and nearly insuring a loss tomorrow if the starter doesn’t go 8 was the problem. I could go on, but what’s the point? There are a lot of problems. We can still make it, and if any team in the NL has the talent to do it it’s this one, but the players have to learn how to outperform Bobby’s laissez-faire and or dumb@$$ managing style. It’s certainly not entirely his fault, but if I had to attach an arbitrary percentage at gunpoint, I’d say 60%. Improve this team by 60% and I give you the National League Champion Atlanta Braves. Now, since those who understand this have no say in the matter, and since Bobby’s previously earned the right for various reasons to manage as long as he pleases, I say…crap. I hope we still somehow pull it off. We are NOT mathmatically eliminated.
By Bob, Journalist
August 22, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this
Random, I’ll admit that “I never put much stock in averages, especially when it came to probabilities.” if that is an exact quote, it’s poorly expressed and doesn’t convey what I was trying to say … I only once read the post to which I was responding and based on my recollection, it appeared to me that the blogger had used a weighted average of two probabilities to get a composite to apply over the entire range … since his range was different from that in which I was interested, I didn’t pay close attention to the numbers but, I wasn’t intending to critique the approach or suggest that it, in this simple, trivial case, was in any way incorrect … regardless of what I may have said or how I said it, I don’t generally favor such averaging of the basic probabilities as that isn’t how my mind works … and I would have used an approach different from the one presented, which, if memory serves, I did outline in general terms … as an aside, but perhaps more related to your point, I considered the simplified question to be one involving apriori probabilities and not related to averages, as would have been the case had the question involved empirical probabilities … the “averages” or averaging to which I was attempting to refer had nothing to do with such averages.
As I had not determined the most likely outcome for 14 year span, as presented in the question, I was genuinely appreciative for what I considered to be a solid, sincere and helpful response … and I would have simply asked for the various outcome probabilities, had I thought it convenient for the blogger to so do … but since it appeared that his evaluation was based on a different span, decided against it.
Had I anticipated that you or anyone else would have had an interest in the topic or in how I expressed myself, perhaps I would have responded differently.
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this
A Day In The Life Classic. Nice post.
Well SJA, never got my hug back but that’s ok…luvya anyway. Good to see you back. Paladin, hold the fort and don’t stay up too late and get in deep stuff. Joebrave…hey. Hate to leave before sayin’ hi to ya bud.
Whatever your time zone…good morning, good evening and good night.
By A-ville Ranger
August 22, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this
Efrim you can’t rely on BOMBS every game at this level,it’s not church league softball.I think their approach is all f**d up. Before I sign off I’ll address Carroll’s article.I don’t know how you play for a division or wild card.This team has to win every game they can that’s all they control.Win and see where they end up.Last thought this team is as confused as it is confusing.
By BravesFanChris22
August 22, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this
I can understand the points of pessimism and being negative to a certain extent. However, throwing in the towel when its still too early to call it over is a bit absurd in my opinion. Yes, I know the glaring hole in the 3, 4, & 5 spots are apart of what’s wrong and yes, I know inconsistency is also a problem, but still, it doesn’t mean it’ll stay like that by any means.
I’m not giving up on Braves at all. If they’re out, they’re out, I’m not going to ridicule and give up on them. If they make it, then that’s a huge plus. Maybe I’m a glass half full type of fan, but I’m not blind to what’s wrong, I know Braves are lacking in areas and yes lacking would be an understatement, but cutting Braves down isn’t really going to make it better is it? I think not. I don’t mean this in a disrespectful way to anyone, its just how I feel.
By Robert
August 22, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
Grinch, we were mathematically eliminated from WS contention the day Cox shoed up at spring training
By Efrim
August 22, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
With a 5.00 earned run average, the Reds’ relievers rank last in the National League as of August 7th.
Yet, the offense couldn’t hit them. This year is worse than last year because the talent is there. I must say, BC needs to get them motivated. The talent is there.
By Paladin
August 22, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this
Savannah Guy I sent a nice post to you but so far it ain’t made it to press. I’ll check in the morning and if it still hasn’t made it, I will rewrite it.
Now, Chief says it is time for me to kiss my pillow. But, these stitches across my forehead are itching so! OK, Chief, I’m coming.
By BravesFanChris22
August 22, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
I’ll mention this, Cardinals last year was almost as bad if not as bad as Braves are at this point (not in the sense where the team was lacking, just talking about wins/losses), but they got hot at the right time and bam, they win the WS. Yes, I know they were in a weak central last year, but they still made it.
Now I am not comparing Braves to Cardinals by any stretch of the imagination, as both situations are/were different, but if Cardinals can do it, who’s to say Braves cant? I’m not saying it will happen by any means, but you never know. That’s why I feel its still to early to hang it up.
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 22, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
Savannah Guy—a firm handshake will do my friend…TheJackAss is saving all his hugs for those of a more feminine persuasion…hope you’ll understand…
By Julia
August 22, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this
R-h-i-n-o-t-i-l-l-e-x-o-m-a-n-i-a
Worse than leaving a SHRIMP SAMMICH on a radiator overnight.
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this
Someone stated earlier that we could not expect to sweep the Reds. Was that a serious post??? Do you remember that the Reds swept the Braves in Atlanta??? Do you remember how everyone was trumpeting the fact that the Braves did not have to face Harang in this series??? Why should we not expect to sweep the Reds??? Everyone considers this team to be a playoff team, while the Reds are 56-70 (but 5-1 against the Braves, kind of similar to the Marlins, who are 56-71 but 7-5 against the Braves, or the Nationals who have beaten the Braves 5 times this season or the Giants who have beaten the Braves 3 out of 7). Fact is, this Braves team played some inspired ball to start 7-1 this season, and they have not played inspired ball since. 59-60 since the 7-1 start. NL East Champs indeed.
Two straight winnable starts by the 5th starter, two straight losses. 5-8 in Smoltz’s last 13 starts. This season is over. Close in the Wild Card standings or not.
By BravesFanChris22
August 22, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this
Stats aren’t exactly the precise measuring stick on players performances. Someone could have a era of 5.00 whatever, but those stats could also be misleading. That’s why I don’t go by stats to measure up the players performances.
By Judge Smails
August 22, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
Here’s a news flash for you Sportsouth
There’s a new invention called VIDEO TAPE
It allows you to do postgame interviews and show them to the TV audience, instead of having your field reporter repeat what was said.
You’d think it was 1957 or something. How about a little hustle to get us the story straight from the people involved?
By The Grinch
August 22, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
Paladin, you’re far to concerned with my (lack of) manhood. get another hobby, @$$-munch. :-)
Boy, I’m glad it’s almost football season…D’OH! D’OH! D’OH!
Um, I mean college football season. At least my Dawgs are so good that even though the entire offensive line are JUCO rookies and literally about 1/3 of the starting position players on both sides of the ball are suspended for the first 2-6 games, the BACKUPS are still good enough to whup the unfortunate poseurs who dare step between the sainted hedges this year. WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!
By Savannah Guy
August 22, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this
Southern My intentions exactly friend…besides, can’t have my wife gettin’ jealous over a big lug like you.
By Todd A
August 22, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
John, I’ve got your moron, right here pal. Last night, 4 outs on 8 pitches. That’s pressing.3 hits tonight? Big freakin’ deal.Did you see that last at bat? Awful.
By BravesFanChris22
August 22, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
BravesDave, that was me who said it and I’ll explain why.
When Braves got swept by Reds, Reds played the better ball. Whether, Braves were inspired or not, its irrelevant. Reds won because they played the better ball in those games. So, if Reds were able to sweep Braves by playing better ball, then how can any expect Braves to sweep Reds in a 4 game series like its a for gone conclusion?
Record of Reds and stats of Reds are irrelevant if they are to play the better ball. Yes, I’ll admit Braves did let some of the games go, but Reds was playing the better ball and capitalized on it.
Its not an absurd logic if you think about it.
By PrincetonBrave
August 22, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this
I blame consistency.
In that, the Braves consistently fail to get a runner or runners home from 2nd and 3rd with less than 2 outs.
This has been exceedingly difficult for this team.
The approach in these situations seems to be, “There are many runners on base, there are less than 2 outs, I better swing as hard as possible in order to create a home run.”
Poor Thorman- what can you say.
Sum: This teams APPROACH AT THE PLATE IS AWFUL. Attention all little leaguers and coaches, avert your eyes from Braves hitters. Anyone can hit bombs, but it takes real ballplayers to do the little things.
By manolo
August 22, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this
The funiest thing is that when Dotel gets ready, I bet tat Acosta goes down and Yates stays.
Why do we keep Thorman?? Do we really believe we will get something valuable back trading him in the offseason, with this performance??
Can someone explain to me why we trade for a lefty specialist, to be used in the 5th inning??
can someone go to the mound and tell JOJO to throw strikes down the middle, no mather if they get hit, specially to pitchers??
I am so dissapointed with this team its actually turning into a funny joke.
you can play a game of: what new ways can we find to not score with runners on?
first time I have seen someone hit a drive off the wall and a runner on second does not score. Chipper must be saying, what in the world is wrong with our runners??? in cleveland, with runners at 1st and third, he hits a line drive to left, the guy dives, and the runner does not score.
INCREDIBLE!!!!
Our worst problem, besides pitching, is clutch. TExeira, bases jamed, KKK Mc, bases empty, two hits, bases loaded, clutch inning, behind in score, zero rbis…
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this
It has been a lot of fun lately watching the Reds get a lead on the Braves and having their bullpen completely shut down the Braves vaunted, consistent, unstoppable offense. It is very similar to watching the Giants get leads on the Braves and watching their bullpen do the same thing.
News flash…teams can actually score on Brandon Webb. Not the Braves, but other teams.
By Lew
August 22, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this
Grinch-Boudoir photography? Well, I guess it’s not as bad as your plans for the cheerleader girl on the dugout-oops. Maybe I’d better not go there, or they’ll never agree to let you represent the blog.
By Wayne in Utah
August 22, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this
William 9:18pm post
When will you whining crybabies ever stop crying about the wrong people. Mike Hampton is not the problem with this team. And quit sounding like jealous Hillary Clinton and admit, if you were Mike Hampton, and 4-5 years ago, you signed a huge contract, you would take the money that was legally yours.
Do you call your boss when you have had a bad day, and say, Mr. Burger Queen manager, I didn’t work very hard today. Could you please take back the $5.75 per hour that I robbed from you?
Heck no you wouldn’t retire. Number one, it shows you know absolutely nothing about Mike Hampton.
Cry if you will about our inconsistent team, and whine about what a “horrible” manager Bobby Cox is, and tell me what an idiotic GM John Schuerholz is, but I don’t want to hear your crap about Mike Hampton giving back the $14.5 million per year(we are only paying about 9 million of that, BTW).
I am not even sure what you talked about in the rest of your post, as I had to go and throw up after hearing you whine about Mike Hampton, one of the gutsiest, committed players to put on a Braves uniform.
You may now resume normal whining and ranting.
So, it looks like BravesDave has already called it. I guess it is time to close down the blog until the hot stove league heats up this December, huh. You, my friend, are just as bad as any of the players on the team who have already mailed it in.
You might be right Dave, but I am glad those who fought and died for our freedoms over the past couple hundred years weren’t such quitters. If so, we might be speaking Japanese or German now.
By monty
August 22, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this
Did anyone else see the end of the Mets-Padres game? THe Padres almost blew it again tonight. They were like the 3 stooges. Dropping pop ups, pitcher misplayed a bunt, Cameron dove for a ball in the outfield he wasn’t even close to, I would sware they were almost getting paid to blow it. But Delgado gets up as the tying run after being down by 5 and he strikes out on a Hoffman change-up and his bat winds up past the mound. Surreal. Padres reminded me of another team I know. P.S. i told you, Andrew is heating up, bad elbow and all. Harris in center isn’t the answer.
By Stinky
August 22, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this
Tex didn’t need to be that shy on the teams’s last strike. But…
Where was Coxie? The envelope might have been stretched with him being thrown out of a concluded game, but his stat would have been padded. Right?
And speaking of padded stats, don’t it seem like Coxie’s boys pound weak pitchers and then the pud once the rotation turns?
By TheSouthernJackAss
August 22, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this
On thursday…Julio Franco turns 49…again!
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this
BravesFanChris, obviously, if the Reds play better than the Braves during the series, than sure we cannot expect a sweep. But if we are looking at this series before it starts, and we see the Reds are throwing Bobby Livingston, Phil Dumatrait, 6-13 Bronson Arroyo, and Elizardo Ramirez against this supposedly unstoppable offense, what should we expect? Should we expect the Braves to see an opportunity to atone for getting swept in Atlanta and return the favor? Should we expect this team to see an opportunity where the teams that they are competing with for a playoff are playing each and take advantage of it?? Should we expect a team that we all think is playoff-quality to beat up on a team that is playing out the string at 15 games below .500 before the start of the series???
C’mon, give me a break. You don’t play a losing team and hope for a split. You don’t play a losing team and hope to win 3 out of 4. You win the games that are in front of you. You beat bad teams. Beating bad teams equals out with losing to the Brandon Webbs of the world. Unfortunately, this Braves team cannot beat bad teams.
By Chief Bromden
August 22, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this
Paladin. G’nite, squeeze the fat lady tight. Make sure she no sing ‘til we wear World Series bling.
Paladin, good timing on your planned escape. You been saying you leave cuckoo’s nest when football start. Now Nurse Rogchett is going to take her eye off cuckoo’s nest on 31st to present award so you can escape Cuckoo’s Nest in time for football. Coincidence? Chief think not.
Chief wanna know who Paladin inside man at AJC be? Paladin get AJC to say no to Grinch & KC wif award so Nurse Rogchett can take eye off nest so Paladin can escape nest for football season. Very clever by Paladin.
But Paladin make much progress while residing in Cuckoo’s Nest. But now Have Gun, Will Travel will return to an inevitable life of crime with the rest of the neanderthals and racists on the Falcons & Dawgs blawgs. Very sad. Chief think too many Falcons & Dawgs blawgers suffer lobotomies & need good Chief pillow smothering.
Braves pitch like lobotomized vegetables. Maybe Chief need to go find a pillow for them… Perhaps, the very same pillow the Braves have been sleeping so well on since they were 24-12…
By brian
August 22, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this
after criticizing this blog for being a negative blog, lets see if DOB or Carroll can find anything positive from this Reds Series. I sure can’t -
I take it back - the Reds did not sweep us this time
By gotigers72
August 22, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
How can they score only 2 runs off of a junkballer like Arroyo and the worst bullpen in the MLs? Arroyo is 5-13 against the rest of the league and 2-0 against the Braves. And they were shutdown games. Why do all junkballers give the Braves fits?
For those of you dissing Chipper tonight, he had 3 hits and except for some especially horrid baserunning, he would have had a double and 2 RBIs. I just can’t believe Braves fans continue to criticize Chipper. He’s only in the Top 5 hitters in the NL. What the hell do you want from the guy? Now Andruw is another story.
By monty
August 22, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this
This ought to drive a few Andrew haters crazy. I did some checking around and Andrew at this point in the season as crappy as it has been for him, still has more homeruns and rbi’s than Manny Ramirez or David(big PoppY) Ortiz, plus he fields better than them. Yeh, they have a higher average and are more clutch than Andrew right now, but I just wonder if their fans hate them as much as you guys hate Andrew.
By Todd A
August 22, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this
““It is time, or rather it is past time, for our esteemed mgr to get off his behind and throw a violent tizzy.”
Better yet, if the league office would impose a 35 game suspension on Cox, the Braves might have a chance at the wild card.
By DAP
August 22, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this
its good to beable to come on here and read many other braves fans are as frusterated and dissapointed as i am about this team. all of the offense that weve seen out of this team, and they cant score 5 runs when they need to. lkast night, the bullpen was responible for 5 runs when all they had to do was hold them, tonight they hold them, but the offense doesnt take advantge.
im just out of ideas about what this team needs. they simply need to win. they just need to perform.
if they make it to the postseason, itll be because they earned it. they have to start winning to do that. its simple, really.
By monty
August 22, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this
Stats update:Hey Andrew haters, Andrew has as many Homeruns as Lance Berkman and more RBI”s than Berkman. Is Berkman a better all round hitter? No question. But even with Andrews numbers being down this year he is still producing as well as many of the elite run producers in the game. I wonder if Berkman gets as many harsh criticisms as Andrew. Nah! The fact is if we had a Berkman or Ortiz or a Ramiriz instead of Andrew we wouldn’t have any more run production out of them, than Andrew
By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this
Yes, Wayne, let’s compare this to war. That makes complete sense. The fact is that I have been reading on and on about how the Braves were better than the Mets and better than the Phillies and better than the Padres and better the ‘27 Yankees (I have even thought that they were better than the Mets and Phils myself), but the fact is that the Braves are not showing it on the field. So, if you think that the Braves with JoJo Reyes, Buddy Carlyle, and Lance Cormier, backing up a great Tim Hudson and a John Smoltz that has not been able to will the Braves to wins in more than 5 of his last 13 starts, are going to make the playoffs more power to you. Yeah, I am calling it. There are 35 games left. Edgar reinjured his ankle without even swinging the bat. Teixiera has been great but it has not translated to wins. The bullpen is a disaster from top to bottom. The defense shuts off during some games. The players are making mistakes like the Willie Harris blunder tonight. The Braves are 17-19 in their last 36 games.
Sorry, Wayne, but where is your evidence to the contrary? Give me something to change my mind, besides nonsensical garbage about those who fought and died for our freedom. You insult them by invoking them in this discussion.
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
August 22, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this
A Day In The Life,
Liked your 10:17 post! ;)
By Wayne in Utah
August 22, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this
And this, from someone who claims to be a Braves fan????? I am not sure I would have stated this, even in jest. Too dang sarcastic for me Dave!
*By BravesDave
August 22, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this
It has been a lot of fun lately watching the Reds get a lead on the Braves and having their bullpen completely shut down the Braves vaunted, consistent, unstoppable offense. It is very similar to watching the Giants get leads on the Braves and watching their bullpen do the same thing.*
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this
Any news on how bad is renterias problem? is this another trip to the dl?
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this
Gotigers i was not criticizing chipper, i just said there is something wrong with him, he did get on base but i have seen way to many weak ground balls and lazy pop ups out of his bat recently, I know he is our leader, that why i made the comment (at least my comment), and i thing someone answered something i agree with, he is putting too much pressure on himself, which is normal. Its not a critic, its an observation that his swings are no chipper like and he looks anxious and is not waiting for his ball, maybe he think AJ is still batting 4th.
By The Grinch
August 23, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this
Lew, that was between the two of us…nah; Braves girls should be shared with everyone.
Wayne, let me start by sayin’ I luv ya, man. You’re obviously smart and passionate about your team. But for (insert diety here)’s sake, please either stop watching FOX “news” or stop reprinting their “instructions” here. And no, I’m not a Democrat (I refuse to be pidgeonholed..though I’m mostly consrvative), but that nonsense really ought to be kept to yourself or inserted into a different forum. Pretty please? It makes friendship and baseball talk so much easier.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this
Monty even is manny and ortiz had the combined RBIs of AJ i would take any of those guy in 1-1 trade, i would even send my sister and/or GF if necessary. You are talking professional hitter there, not swinging for the fence robot.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this
Lets see:
AJ AVG.214 OBP.308 RBI82 HR24 K115
Ramirez AVG.290 OBP.380 RBI85 HR19 K84
Ortiz AVG.318 OBP.428 RBI80 HR21 K86
I wouldnt wanna be the judge
By The Grinch
August 23, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this
Nice…I spelled “pigeon” incorrectly. Must be one of those nights. Like one of those where the freakin’ Braves lose to an inferior team AGAIN. Blah.
Wayne, please don’t get mad. And anyone who knows me knows I avoid all politics like the plague…but geez.
G’night, all.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this
Sorry, Wayne, if my sarcasm is too much for you. I guess Braves fans are not allowed to be sarcastic. Would you rather that I post about something more important, like shrimp sandwiches??
Look, the Braves are not performing on the field. A true fan has every right to be angry, disappointed, sarcastic, negative, etc. I don’t “claim” to be a Braves fan. I have been watching the Braves since 1984 on TBS. When they were no longer showing enough games on TBS, I started purchasing the Extra Innings package on the dish so that I can watch them every night. I have XM so that I can listen on the radio if they are not on the package - like Saturday afternoon games that are blacked out on the dish. I go to Atlanta as often as possible to see games - I live in the Northeast. I go to Shea and I go to Philly. I have a Dale Murphy jersey and a Fred McGriff jersey in my closet. Don’t tell me that I “claim” to be a Braves fan.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this
Todd - I have said before that Cox’s most effective managerial move as far as getting the Braves to win balls games is the s**-stained hissy fit resulting in his being ejected before the first pitch is thrown
As for the Braves pitching like lobotomized vegetables. Could it be because they are managed by a lobotomized vegetable?
By uga-brave
August 23, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this
this team will make you physically ill. to say a whole lot more is redundant. another stat to grind on, we struck out 9 times tonight. thats three innings without putting any pressure on the defense. once again when was the last time we won a game 3-2. the braves just dont put pressure on teams late in the game unless it is via the homerun. no excuse for letting this bullpen shut you down two nights in a row.
for all of you that think bobby should of yanked willy after that bonehead play he basicaly did when he pinch hit for him. for all of the braves inconsistencies this year, we can now add base running to that long list.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this
On Thursday…Julio Franco turns 49 … again! Though telegraph lines have been down due to earlier storms, smoke signals indicate previously requested crop report as being highly favorable.
Happy Birthday, Julio! I wish I could tell you what to expect when you reach 50 but I can’t remember back that far.
The home page lead on tonight’s game Braves.com … “The offense continued doing its job in his absence” … meaning Edgar’s absence.
On behalf of everyone here, I would like to extend our congratulations on the offense continuing to do its job … the last part of last night’s game and again tonight were outstanding!
By Robert
August 23, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this
Monty wrote - “This ought to drive a few Andrew haters crazy. I did some checking around and Andrew at this point in the season as crappy as it has been for him, still has more homeruns and rbi’s than Manny Ramirez or David(big PoppY) Ortiz, plus he fields better than them. Yeh, they have a higher average and are more clutch than Andrew right now, but I just wonder if their fans hate them as much as you guys hate Andrew.”
Monty, you are either Bobby Cox, or the only human being on the planet dumber than he is
For the season , Andruw Jones has an OBP of under .310 and an adjusted OPS of 91.
Manny Ramirez, tho having what is for him an off year, is at .380 and 127
David Ortiz is above .425 and in the 150’s
There is little similarity between the 2007 numbers for any of the three. The game is NOT about home runs.
Coach - celebrate. You are no longer the dumbest mofo on the blog
By Robert
August 23, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this
” i would even send my sister and/or GF if necessary”
Come on overlord, admit it. They’re the same girl.
By uga-brave
August 23, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
dont let wayne get to you. truth kinda hurts. i would say 98% of all people on this blog are the 10% of all the true braves fans out there. some people just have trouble rationalizing the facts. WE ARE a mediocre team with a middle of a road payroll, and an abysmal pitching staff minus smoltz and huddy. if those aint the facts then, SORRY.
By fastasballs
August 23, 2007 12:51 AM | Link to this
Well do a little more digging around there Monty because you didn’t dig deep enough if you think Andruw is in the same league as ANY other big RBI guy.
Andruw has had 231 AB’s with runners on & a whopping 144 w/RISP. Here’s just a few of the “comparable” players, all with more RBI’s than Andruw. Berkman 186/106, Albert Pujols 201/93, Howard 208/138, Prince Fielder 198/101. ARod & Maglio Ordonez have the most comparable attempts as Andruw yet both are well over 100 RBI’s. ARod 241/131 & M Ordonez 230/150.
Virtually anyone could have been plugged in the clean-up spot this year & would have had over 100 RBI’s with the attempts Andruw has had. It’s not hating, just a fact. On another note Andruw didn’t pencil himself in there as the clean-up hitter while not hitting his weight, that’s on Cox.
A player can only play the game to the best of his ability, it’s up to the manager to arrange a line-up that gives the team the best chance to win, not to stoke egos & leaving Andruw behind Chipper virtually 2/3 of the year was a huge mistake & paid with ? Braves losses?
Being the best centerfielder in the game constitutes him being in the line-up regardless of his average, but not in the middle of the order.
By uga-brave
August 23, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this
if this season plays out as i expect we will probably get hot around sept 10th., and just out of the wild card. that would put a big cherry on top of this big pile of crap. then we can all argue about the IFS and BUTS, but if its and buts were candy and nuts….
By Robert
August 23, 2007 1:05 AM | Link to this
uga-brave - Here’s the FACTS
This is team that has 6 of 8 regulars (or regular platoons) hitting .290 or above.
This team leads the league in batting average, and is third in the league in runs
This team, one of 16 in the league, has two of the ten best starters in the league
This team should be about 6 games out in front in the division
This team is managed by a donkey, who continues to utilize some players poorly in the same way night after night, even as he finds new ways to misuse other players almost every night
Bobby Cox is simply the biggest BUFFOON to ever wear a manager’s uniform, in any sport, at any level
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this
Uga, not sure if you have checked out any of my recent posts, but can you believe that the Braves have won only 5 of Smoltz’s last 13 starts? I was amazed by that today. And here we have all been blaming the rest of the horrible pitching staff. This is not even remotely all Smotlz’s fault. He has pitched well. But it just shows how terribly this team has been playing lately. They can’t even win games regularly when their co-ace, bulldog veteran is on the mound. If seeing John Smoltz on the mound pitching for your team doesn’t get you fired up, if seeing him struggle through shoulder pain doesn’t make you want to bust your rear end for him, how can you call yourselves a playoff team?????
By Robert
August 23, 2007 1:24 AM | Link to this
Monty is Bobby Cox. No doubt about it. I thought it might be Scott Boras, but no. Boras is OBNOXIOUS, but not stupid.
You wanna know some guys producing runs at a rate similar to Andruw Jones?
Try Brandon Inge. Try Alex Gordon. Or Ronnie Belliard. Or Austin Keanrs.
I could give you a team’s worth of these guys and they wouldnt cost combined what Andru costs for half a season
By uga-brave
August 23, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this
BRAVE-DAVE
saw that stat to, but i can name at least four of those losses that were winnable games i.e. the smoltz harang game in atl. and the game at the dbacks both extra inning losses, shocker. just kind of defines this long fustrating season. just kind of expect this team keeps expecting something bad is always gonna happen.
just saw chris young of the pads might be heading for the D.L. thats two stud pitchers on the teams ahead of you on the D.L. kinda makes you wonder, whats it gonna take to make the braves wake up.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this
BravesDave, Dave, I’m not suggesting you weren’t being sarcastic in your 11:12 … I sincerely accept your assertion that you were so being.
Nor, do I doubt that you either are, or perceive yourself as being, a good Braves’ fan … I so consider myself … but, while I suppose I can see your post as sarcasm from a disgruntled fan, I can also see it being interpreted as the genuine attitude of someone with different feelings.
Methinks fervor, passion, defensive aggression, frustration, anger, sarcasm … all look a lot alike when stripped of tone.
By uga-brave
August 23, 2007 1:44 AM | Link to this
BOB that sure is a lot of verbage to describe pragmatic.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this
uga-brave, why did you choose “an abysmal pitching staff” to describe the staff sans Hudson and Smoltz?
I can’t decide whether you’re saying it has great depth or it stinks.
By Clyde the Glyde
August 23, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this
DEAR BOBBY COX:
The final pitch was not eight inches outside. It’s the same call Smoltz gets several times a game. Stick to cheerleading and digging for gold in your nose—the only two things you are good at.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 2:00 AM | Link to this
Hey Bob J, not much tone needed for someone posting under the name BravesDave. Maybe if the name was MetsDave, then saying that it was a lot of fun watching the Braves get shut down could be taken seriously. Coming from someone using the moniker BravesDave, not so serious. But I sincerely accept your assertion that when tone is missing, silly people can misinterpret obvious sarcasm…if that was your assertion…if that was not your assertion, then I can appreciate the probability of your statistical progression…if there is no statistical progression, then I accept your consideration of yourself as a Braves fan…or just that you perceive yourself to be one.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 2:06 AM | Link to this
uga-brave, you want get an argument from me on that if indeed your misspelling is intentional and intent pejorative.
By uga-brave
August 23, 2007 2:08 AM | Link to this
BOB,
or is it HAL 2000, the braves staff is not deep but it is defintely not good. with all do respect i do understand the definition of abyss. oh and hal i will definitely dream tonight. i just hope they are not the nighmares i keep watching night after night
By Random
August 23, 2007 2:10 AM | Link to this
By Bob, Journalist (August 22, 2007 10:35 PM) | “… Had I anticipated that you or anyone else would have had an interest in the topic or in how I expressed myself, perhaps I would have responded differently.”
I hope to god that you will always anticipate that someone on the blog will have an interest in what you have to say; otherwise, it’s just a tragic waste of bits and pixels.
Just tweaking you, Booby, my favourite Diurnalist.
As one of this blog’s foremost practitioners and promulgators of the most commonsensical and even trite positions, wrapped in an overblown syntax tortured past the point of waterboarding, you are peculiarly and particularly vulnerable to just such potshots as mine. I look forward to future opportunities for the same.
It’s a shame that no one but me, Serbok (August 21, 2007 3:54 AM — “LOL”) and you (August 21, 2007 4:05 PM — “some wee hour posts mocking me … which is always an encouraging sign and good for a laugh”) thought my Proposition ABC… post (August 21, 2007 2:53 AM) was funny. I’ll try better next time.
“Methinks.”
By Robert
August 23, 2007 2:14 AM | Link to this
“It was eight inches outside, Mac coming up — pretty good chance of a three-run homer in this place,” Braves manager Bobby Cox said”
Pure genius. Any umpire who didnt already think Cox is a jacka$$, does now.
What does it say about your manager when the best defense he has for his mismanagement is to argue balls and strikes?
Of course, if you’ve watched any of the past 17 seasons, you know that about the only times Cox stops rooting around in his nostrils with his hooves are to
a. turn various shades of blue and red arguing balls and strikes
b. to motion to the bullpen to make a badly timed pitching change
Now I know where Chipper learned to whine about the schedule being unfair and somesuch - He learned it from his idiot “mentor”
Bobby Cox is mental retardation personified
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 2:33 AM | Link to this
Dave, I agree that honorable use of the mask discloses the initial sarcasm and while we have somewhat different perspectives I believe you to be that to which you lay claim.
I wasn’t intentionally playing with words or trying to be humorous … as I directionally share some of the same feelings toward those who believe we have achieved the offensive consistency being touted in some quarters … as indicated in one or more of my recent posts; I hope.
I do believe that they now have the opportunity to achieve and maintain that consistency but, as of yet, they’re not so doing.
However, I thought after the initial thrust, the issue of sarcasm became clouded as you approached the end … seemed increasingly forthright to me.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 2:37 AM | Link to this
“…rooting around in his nostrils with his hooves…”. Now Robert, that was damn funny. You are killing it for the past couple of days. You are over the top sometimes on the Bobby-bashing, but I agree with a lot of your assertions…and man, your posts are a laugh riot. The one earlier today with pulling numbers out of the hat and hiding the lineup cards, brilliant.
By BravesDave
August 23, 2007 3:00 AM | Link to this
Bob J, let’s agree to agree.
Methinks I am going to sleep.
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this
Random,
“I hope to god that you will always anticipate that someone on the blog will have an interest in what you have to say; otherwise, it’s just a tragic waste of bits and pixels”
I totally agree … and you know it!
“favourite Diurnalist” … nice! Thanks!
“As one of this blog’s foremost practitioners and promulgators of the most commonsensical and even trite positions, wrapped in an overblown syntax tortured past the point of waterboarding, you are peculiarly and particularly vulnerable to just such potshots as mine”
Of this I’m well aware … surprise, surprise … and while some of it is intentional, primarily the syntax and redundancies (for the primary purpose of hiding my many fatal flaws), I do always try to be both sincere and consistent … the mask is somewhat manufactured but it’s mostly me … at least the values are those in which I believe and the standards those for which I think we should strive … methinks methinks!
“I look forward to future opportunities for the same” … me too!
By Goat Horns
August 23, 2007 3:04 AM | Link to this
The situational hitting of this team is terrible. It, along with the back of the rotation and our shabby defense, will keep us out of the playoffs.
I would like to know what the opposing pitchers are hitting against us this year. I would bet they have a higher collective batting average than Andruw.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 3:08 AM | Link to this
You know, in all seriousness now.
Bobby Cox has got to have an incredible library of baseball anecdotes. And I bet he is hoot to have a few beers (or smoke cigars) with
And, I can see why players like to play for him. (tho I would contend that what players LIKE, and what players NEED to get best results, are probably only rarely the same thing)
But when it comes to strategy, Bobby Cox is like Murphy’s Law in human form.
When they show him on tv, I’m usually like, “Bad Donk. No sugar cube. I said dont. Whatever you are thinking, just DONT! “
It simply can not be coincidence that so many guys choke when playing for Cox in the postseason. Or that so many relievers who look great on other teams suddenly cant throw a strike or cant keep their arms attached to their bodies when they come play for Cox.
Coincidence happens only when we havent figured out the underlying thread.
Good luck is smarts that arent getting their due. Bad luck is the word stupid have use to describe stupidity (because they are too stupid to recognize it for what it is)
The vehemence with which his barinwashed apologists defend him is mind boggling. In their minds, there is no poor outcome for which he holds blame. It’s always someone, or soemthing else. As a last resort, they claim he didnt throw the pitches, or swing the bats. When they have to beyond the last resort, they start blaming the umpire’s strike zone.
The mid 90’s Braves with Cox as manager - it’s like getting a Harvard education, buying a $25,000 suit, and showing up for your job interview with your fly open.
Or building a $2 billion airport and buying the computer that runs the air traffic control tower at the Buford Highway Flea Market
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 3:11 AM | Link to this
Goat Horns, be fair … Andruw has more RBI!
Goodnight Miss Allen!
By Train Wreck Bystander
August 23, 2007 3:20 AM | Link to this
Did the programmer at AJC swap the Braves Vent hyperlink with the Beat Blog by mistake? Seems that way to me.
Like many of you, I too am glad that college football season is starting soon. Because that means many of you will move over there to vent.
I still believe in these Atlanta Braves.
By Serbok
August 23, 2007 3:23 AM | Link to this
RANDOM? Diurnalist? NOW That should go down into the *Diurnalist HAll of Fame? LOL! I have never EVER heard that word in my life!!!!!! Of course I’m sure the Esteamed (Sic) BobJ recognized it right off the bat!!!!!!!!!!! (Go Mark T!) Enjoyed that one my friend!!!!!!! Ever heard the word: Postolfactoraminisitey? Damn~ regardless how I spill it this firefox spill checker says I’m wrong! Dagnabbit!
By Serbok
August 23, 2007 3:34 AM | Link to this
Robert! You TRIP me out BRO!!!! You and JJS were the first ppl of notice to me when I discovered this blog~ You~ Due to the fact~ I agree with you!!! JJS~due to the fact I thought He WAS just Nuts in A tree that That even Gilligan could not reach! C’mon Dude tho? We make it to the playoffs? Ya cant say it was due to Maddux, Glavine, Smoltzie, AND Brian Jordan! LOL Did Have Bruce Benedict penciled in~ cant ‘member tho~ if he was even around? Lmao!
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 3:44 AM | Link to this
Now Robert, there’s no reason to exaggerate, just to make a point … I once paid $500 for a shirt and had one or two $250 ties back in the mid 90’s … but, any fool who went to Harvard and was dumb enough to pay $25,000 for a suit back then would not have had to interview for a job … daddy would have made sure they had a guaranteed position or political appointment.
By Serbok
August 23, 2007 3:48 AM | Link to this
Random Musing IF one stares into the Abyss long Enuff~ It will Stare Right BACK at YOU!!!
By Random
August 23, 2007 4:09 AM | Link to this
Serbok — “Postolfactoraminisitey” does not ring a bell, but I did stumble across a “postanal gut”.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 4:15 AM | Link to this
Serbok - The early 90’s are the key. And the question is, how much did Cox have to do with that?
I think what a lot of people see is that in mid 1990, Bobby Cox took over as manager from Russ Nixon, and that in 1991, the team went from worst to first.
They then see a long run of consecutive division titles, and the conclusion is that Cox is a managerial wizard
But let’s examine things in a little more detail.
Who WERE the 91 Braves? What did that team have? To start with, they had breakout years from three excellent young pitchers. Smoltz was in his third season, Glavine his fourth, and the best of the bunch, the wunderkind Avery, in his second.
Those guys were going to break out. Cox arrived on the scene at the right time. He didnt make it happen. Now - did his cheerleader enthusiasm HELP in giving these kids a boost, enhancing their self-confidence and thus their results. YOUBETCHA. But you can not tell me that those three would not have broken thru big time without Cox.
Matter of fact, I’ll contend to you that Cox’s mismanagement of Avery cost the kid a HOF career.
They also had a major shot in the arm from the timely arrival or Terry Pendleton. And they had a cast of (mostly) working class blue collar type players happy to contribute and not more concerned with their media image or their next contract than with the team’s success
Let’s look at something else. Let’s look at what the 91 Braves did NOT have. Older, more highly paid players who were collecting checks, or looking to be able to sign for one more big paycheck - you know, guys on whom managerial loyalty is wasted and who, if given such loyalty, will ruin the team
OH WAIT A MINUTE - They had Otis Nixon and Lonnie Smith. And, if I’m not mistaken, Otis’ cocaine issues and Lonnie’s baserunning blunder hurt us badly at crunch time
See - even in 1991, Cox couldnt differentiate between players who needed unwaivering loyalty and support, and guys who needed a kick in the behind - He was simply lucky that extremely talented players who thrived on the former outweighed loafers who’d poison a team
Then in 1993, they add - one of the greatest pitchers of the modern era, just entering HIS prime.
And what happens? The Braves win lots of games. BIG FRICKIN SURPRISE!.
Then 1995 - A shortened regular season, the four horsemen basically run the table three times in a row, culminating in the Glavine/Wohlers one hitter - (and dont forget Bozo to manage against Harpo in the Fall Classic)
And then there is post 1995. The mainstays of those teams have been - Chipper, Andruw, Smolztie, and Cox
Andruw and Chipper were born (baseball speaking) with platinum plated spoons in their mouths. They were fat, happy, and privaleged from day one. What need to hustle that extra step when you could coast to 95 wins, an early October gig, and the adoring fans?
By this time, the Cox myth was entrenched. And the adulation of his spoiled players, coupled with the ongoing run of health from the superstar pitchers, and the Braves continued (to that point) high payroll ways, served to keep it alive, kicking, and growing, even as the sidewalks were being littered by the corpses of wasted opportunites and stupid startegic decisions year after year
And then we get to the present. Chipper and Andruw - dont WANT to play anywhere else. Times arent good here, and they dont have the makeup to take a step back from their prima donna ways and attitudes to make things happen. And they wanna Cox here cuz COX will never call them out to do it - and they darn well know that anywehre else they go, they would be called out to do it
Meanwhile, the payroll is relatively much reduced, and the proud warrior Smoltz is all that’s left of the superstuds.
And the disillusioned and misled fans are creating excuses for their beloved genius manager, instead of realizing that he was 95% beneficiary of the team’s past greatness, and at most 5% its creator
Why has he been elected Manager of the Year. Baseball is one big old boys club - perhaps the biggest old boys club ever. A lot of old boys aint that bright when you really put em to the litmus test, so maybe they got flimflammed into believing the hype.
I have always given them the benefit of the doubt and theorized that they were in very smart, and realized that the only thing that kept the Braves from actually BECOMING a real, and really long-lived dynasty, was Bobby Cox - and that the only weapon they had to keep the dynasty from coming to fruition, was to make sure the Braves kept - Bobby Cox
By Random
August 23, 2007 4:16 AM | Link to this
Serbok— postscript to previous post (backstairs wit): “postanal gut” — kind of bass ackwards, don’t you think?
PPS: Nietzsche, right?
PPPS: “Postolfactory” — where they print stamps, right?
By Robert
August 23, 2007 4:23 AM | Link to this
“daddy would have made sure they had a guaranteed position or political appointment.”
Well, now, tell me. “Daddy” (JS) is the one making sure his favorite son keeps a job.
And if Cox’s position with the Braves isnt like a political appointment (and a corrupt one, as he is above reproach or accountability) than I dont know what is
I used to think Cox had pictures of JS (think Belliard and Lemke in speedos) - but then realized if that had been the case, Cox woulda been given the Jimmy Hoffa treatment after the 99 World Series.
No - JS and Cox? There’s DNA linkage.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 4:44 AM | Link to this
How big an old boys club is it? And how does it work?
Just at the jackleg that usually writes this column. He is on the inside, cuz he gets acess to the players.
And whenever anyone says something that doesnt adulate Cox, DOB’s comeback is that you’re not a player, you havent gotten to smoke cigars with Donk, you dont see every inning of every game, blah blah blah, so how could you possibly know anything?
I respect O’Brien for one thing at this point, and that is for allowing me continued access to this blog.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt as to his intelligence, I’ll assert that his masters wouldnt let him write the truth, and that in private, he wishes he wouldve slapped Donk so hard upside the head that his cigar would fly out of his mouth
A note here to Ron Roberts - who likes to ask me my credentials to manage the Brave, and to everyone else who likes to get in the act of bashing me. You are putting yourself in the right company as far as a lot of the groupies see things, but the boy writer whose views you parrot holds you in as much contempt as he holds me, when it comes down to it. You’ll find out if ever dare question him or disagree with him. Remember Ron, you might back ther old boys club, but aint members
I dont know big business, and I dont CARE to know how the financials of a money making venture enterprise (which is the Braves are to the front office) works. And since my fastball topped out at about 72 mph 20 years ago and I make Bob Wickman look FAST, I never played anything resembling pro ball. But I’m a student of the game, and a hardcore fan of the team, who wants one thins - bragging rights over the other guys as earned thru WS championships. But I know the game I watch being played as well as any beat writer ever will - even if I dont need to pay my respects to the old boys.
By bill
August 23, 2007 6:24 AM | Link to this
Get real, the season is over. I like Tex and he is a great player. I was against this trade from the start. This was the worst trade in the history of the Braves. I don’t want to hear that there wasn’t pitching available. It was there but JS didn’t want what was availabe. It’s unreal that all those prospects given up and didn’t help this team. I appreciate what JS & BC has done over the years. JS has screwed up on alot of things this season. This has been his worst season. The Braves are going nowhere under the direction of JS & BC. It’s time to go in another direction. This team is dead, they need someone to light a fire under their A—.
By doobird
August 23, 2007 7:04 AM | Link to this
GO ROBERT!!!! You got it figured out! Anyone who watches as many games as I have can see you TELL IT LIKE IT IS! I get so mad watching Cox and hearing his “little league cheer leading”, watching his “gold digging” nose picking and his stupid player loyalty (to the point of costing a win) in so many games it’s ridiculous. This man does not play the game but he sure as hell has cost the Braves about as many losses as he has wins. The difference in wins and losses being the games his players have overcome his mismanagement and won anyway!! The lefty-righty platoon crap being a big part … look at the players numbers against the opposition instead of whether he’s right or left-handed. Go with the hot hand not your love for your “guy”!
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 7:12 AM | Link to this
Robert,
If you are such a “student of the game,” why haven’t you paid any attention to research that says winning in the post-season is largely due to having power-pitchers, having a great closer, having a great defense and just plain ol’ luck.
Why don’t you realize that in baseball sometimes teams that should win don’t in short series and not because they aren’t prepared or because they are chokers but because anything can happen over the course of a five- or seven-game series?
Obviously you aren’t much of a student of the game if you don’t realize these things. I think it’s time to become a student of another sport because seems you’ve failed at your baseball studies.
By Steve
August 23, 2007 7:14 AM | Link to this
I don’t have much sympathy for a player who takes a called 3rd strike that’s a couple of inches off the plate as it’s the batter’s responsibility to protect the plate and against the possibility that the umpire will miss something relatively close. But unless the camera angle was very deceptive, that 3rd strike call on Tex was a minimum 8 inches off the plate, and possibly closer to a foot away. That’s not a pitch Tex should be swinging out, regardless of the situation. Could he have even reached it had he swung? At some point, a minimum level of competence by an umpire has to be expected, and required. On such a blatantly bad call, do any of the sports writers question such umpire after the game? Are the umpires available to be questioned?
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 7:22 AM | Link to this
Savannah Guy I still didn’t find my post to you from last night so if you read this before “heading out” I said,
SG See SJA’s advice to me. It is almost the same thing you tried to say to me, months ago. I should have taken it, then, but I was having too much “fun”. Maybe you just can’t teach an old dog new tricks, unless you are Mike Vick. He has a way of making his point.
Anyway, you were both nice, and right, and I appreciate it.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 7:25 AM | Link to this
Shaun, we’ve been thru this. I dont think that the work you cite in this case is a properly control adjusted analysis. For example, just what exactly is the criteria for being classified as a power pitcher?
Consider - Team X that has guys who are considered “power pitchers” They meet a Cox team led by Maddux and Glavine, who are not considered power pitchers. Cox screws it up, and because of his late inning mismanagement, the Braves self-thwart several potential rallies. Now the other team’s defense looks great on paper, and the closer walks away with 4 saves, so he looks great too. And some dingdong beat writer comes in next day and says it was just pure bad luck the Braves couldnt ever score with the bases loaded and noone out.
Your theory would then appear valid, but in fact it was Cox’s mismanagement that lost the thing, not those other factors that won it.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 7:28 AM | Link to this
Robert,
Also, if you were a true student of the game, you would have read that there is no evidence to suggest manager changes result in improved batter performances. Also, that no manager is significantly better than another at knowing when to put in certain players and defensive substitutions at the end of the game have a miniscule impact over the course of a season.
In other words, it’s nearly impossible to quantify a manager’s impact but the best probably aren’t worth a handful of games over the course of 162.
That said, it’s pretty clear that the Braves have rarely ever underperformed pre-season expectations since Bobby Cox has been around. And I’m not talking about some guy’s subjective predictions; I’m talking about projections based on in-depth analysis of what can be expected of each player on the team (based on age, past performance, comparisons to how other similar players aged, etc.).
Also, it seems very arrogant to think virtually every player that Cox has come in contact with and every executive in baseball is wrong but you are right about Bobby Cox. It’s one of the most arrogant things I’ve ever experienced. I don’t think you can even name one player, other manager, executive or scout that has said one negative thing about Cox. If you can, show it to me and we’ll all start listening.
Until then, I’ll think you are an arrogant person who just wants to stir up things on a blog and who only knows a tiny fraction of what he thinks he knows about baseball. This is clearly obvious from your repeated post about Cox. If you were a true student of the game, I think you’d be at least half-way concerned with something besides one manager.
By Ron H
August 23, 2007 7:29 AM | Link to this
hey bill, i don’t agree with you (about JS and BC), but last night i dreamt that BC had been let go and we had a no name manager in the dugout…and we turned it around…weird.
Gooo Braves (at this point, my hopes are seriously diminished about the bravos making the playoffs).
By Robert
August 23, 2007 7:29 AM | Link to this
Rumor has it that upon hearing of Michael Vick’s plea baragin, Bobby Cox immediately asked about purchasing “rape stand” found on Vick’s property, and firmed up plans to visit Pimlico in the off-season
By Willie Coyote
August 23, 2007 7:30 AM | Link to this
The wild card may not even be in reach for this team. It’s tough when 60% of your rotation can’t consistently pitch through the 5th and can’t keep the ball in the yard.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 7:33 AM | Link to this
Robert,
Oh, the people I’ve learned the most about baseball from aren’t obsessed with psuedo-evaluating managers, much less one manager.
Get out and pay attention to other things. Baseball isn’t a video game with the manager as Player 1. Pitching, hitting, fielding, running, these things go a whole lot farther than managing does in deciding games. Oh, but you are such a student of the game, how could you not know that?
By Robert
August 23, 2007 7:44 AM | Link to this
Shaun - Remember early in the season, when you were telling us how great Andruw was even tho he wasnt hitting the weight of his buttock?
Then, as it became obvious just how ludicrous your claims were, you backed off, but only a little at a time
Similarly, you used to spout about Cox’s wizardry, yet now you tell us that, well, no manager can really matter that much and it’s not like any of em make a hitter better
Deja vu?
Dude, if you think the 93, 97, and 98 Braves didnt significantly underperform (or that they got unlucky, or that they got screwed by the umps) then you do cheap drugs
But you know, I wouldnt be at all surprised if you werent even in grade school in 1993. I’m guessing daddy took you to some games and told you how great Donk was.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 7:51 AM | Link to this
“Pitching, hitting, fielding, running, these things go a whole lot farther than managing does in deciding games”
Shaun, all those start with the decisions the manager makes, starting with the mental approach he espouses, continuing with what the team works on in spring training, and right on thru who he lets pitch, hit and field in any particular situation
Any manager that has a passel of .300 hitters at his disposal but still lets a .210 hitter bat cleanup aint right in the brain
By raymond
August 23, 2007 8:01 AM | Link to this
The Braves are toast! With the pitching they have they won’t even be in the wild card race by the second week of Sept.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this
Does anyone knows whats the status on edgar?
i feel so sorry for tim, john, chipper, edgar, tex and some other good players…… they deserve better.
Im also worried about chippers and smoltz approach to the performance of the team……. does chipper has a personal problem with tex presence in this team? That could be a real big problem.
If lance keeps pitching like he has last 2 games and buddy stops looking like james, we still have a chance on WC.
By Salty
August 23, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this
Odd stat of the night…perhaps of the season: Lost in the 30-3 shellacking Texas laid on the O’s…a relief pitcher got credit for a save…pitching the last three innings! Valuable points in the fantasy league!
By Booger the Blogger
August 23, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this
Robert
Shaun
Robert
Shaun
Robert
Shaun
Robert
Shaun
Robert
Shaun
Robert
Shaun
It seems I have seen this somewhere before. Yawn.
By bill
August 23, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this
Ron H. Everyone has an opinion. I think the team needs a new direction. The Braves are going nowhere until they get SP. Where are they going to get it?
By Will
August 23, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this
Very frustrating loss last night, pitching put the team in position to win and the offense laid an egg. What was the point of bringing back a non-100% Renteria when Escobar was basically duplicating his stats at SS?? Obviously still time to right the ship, but last night’s loss was bad. That strike 3 call on Tex in the 9th was definitely a terrible call, but too close to take. Its getting old seeing a game like Monday when the O will just pour it on in a blowout and to top it off Tim Hudson was pitching, then last night cant even hardly get a rally going.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this
I can pitch, maybe bobby lets me give it a try and join the parade.
By Pajama Phil
August 23, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this
I wore pajamas to a game back in 2005. No one paid much attention to me but my girlfriend had on a teddy and that drew lots of attention. She used to be Miss Tennessee. We sat along the third base line and TBS showed us a couple times. Well, about the 3rd inning, our third baseman came running over to the wall and kept trying to get my girlfriend’s attention. He was salivating heavily and his ears were turning red and he couldn’t stand still. The boy can’t talk so who knows what he was trying to say? Whatever it was, he was talking to my girl. I’ll tell you more of my story in another post.
By Ron H
August 23, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this
hey bill, we all have opinions, and i merely stated mine while not demeaning yours. i think that any manager in baseball couldn’t do more with this team. we’re cuffed by the lack of pitching. we don’t have it.
i don’t believe the braves have what it takes to make the playoffs right now. buddy and chuck have lost their magic and the 5th starter never had it…
we can’t keep relying on smoltz and hudson (Smoltz and Huddy and pray it’s muddy). what if they lose a game? then we go 2-4(in two series)? i know the braves have a positive record right now, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see us end the year 1 or 2 games over 500. maybe even a few games under. we never had a good winning streak this year. one good streak and we’re 1-2 games behind the Mets right now.
JS, while creating a buzz with the TEX trade, should have realized pitching was the key. i know there was nothing to choose from, but i’m sure Renteria (and throw in a prospect or two) could have brought us a serviceable pitcher for a few years. Yunel has proved he can play. that’s why, since the All Star break, we’ve got a .500 record.
woulda shoulda coulda.
i have enjoyed watching the braves this year. they’ve been an exciting team.
Gooo Braves.
By Will
August 23, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this
Braves are 9-10 with Tex in the lineup. I applaud the trade, but this proves as all Braves fans know its take good pitching to be a great team.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this
Exciting 50% of time. Frustrating 50% of time.
By BravesFanChris22
August 23, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this
BravesDave (at 11:27pm comment)
No, I didn’t mean that in that way. I wasn’t saying you shouldn’t expect a sweep if you look at it prior to the series start like you mentioned. I meant you shouldn’t expect a sweep based on the fact that Braves have had a hard time beating “statistical” bad teams. You yourself has said that and that brings me up to a couple more points.
Just because those teams are “statistical” bad, doesn’t mean they can’t play good ball. Which was evident in the prior 3 game series against the Reds when they swept Braves. So, going by that, is why I stated you shouldn’t expect a sweep of the reds like its a for gone conclusion based on “stats”. I’m not saying I didn’t want nor anyone shouldn’t have wanted a sweep. Because I would have loved a sweep. However, with the way things have gone, my statement of shouldn’t have expected a sweep rings true.
The second point is the statistical issue. Sure, a team can be the worst team in that sense, but that doesn’t mean they can’t turn it around and play better. Reds have been playing better if I’m not mistaken with taking 2 out of 3 from both Cubs & Brewers recently. So, just because Reds “statistically” are a bad team, doesn’t mean they can’t play good ball because the stats say they don’t or can’t. That maybe a bit confusing, I hope it makes sense and came out right.
I’m with you in the sense that it is a bit aggravating to see them lacking and losing, so to that degree I agree with the pessimism. However, what I am disagreeing with and that I’m not with you, is that yes, they are in a struggle right now, but its still too early to say its over. They still have a realistic chance to get into post season via WC. I know if they keep the recent struggles going into that deep of September then your case would be proven right. However, I’m not going to give up. Braves can turn it around and I’ll be rooting for them to do so.
By Russ Keith
August 23, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this
Speaking of needing “Back end”of the rotation help, there is no one BIG back end starter who placed on waivers that would Fill up that lack of weight from the 3, 4, and 5 staters…They call’em BOOMER… Yeah that’s right David Wells…
He’s a veteran, who has played with championship teams, and he knows how to win in the postseason..Check his stats…I know he’s over the hill, but the back end of our rotation are not caring there weight….BOOMER! BOOMER! BOOMER!
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this
Robert,
Give it a rest. The burden of proof is on you. You are the one making the outrageous claim that Cox is a bad manager. Virtually everyone else on the planet that cares about baseball disagrees, so it’s up to you to provide some sort of proof to show us how wrong we all are.
I haven’t seen you provide any evidence that cannot be disputed with even a few facts, so until then every time you bring this up I’ll expose you, like I’ve done.
No one is saying Cox is perfect. Not many of us are arguing that Cox is a great manager (even though many of us feel that he is). We are just saying Cox is far from the worst manager in baseball as you think he is. It’s rather easy to tear that idea down. Give us something more challenging and entertaining to discuss on the blog, please.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this
Will,
Well, how good were the Braves before Tex and how many runs/wins does he add/subtract?
If he adds one or two wins in a close race, the trade was worth it, and it’s quite possible it’s enough to make the playoffs (although it may be less and less likely).
Also, again, teams don’t always make the playoffs with good pitching. Again, look at the Yankees in recent years.
Good pitching certainly helps, but the Braves could still be a playoff team without it.
By Will
August 23, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this
Shaun, you are right about Bobby, i dont really care for him, but i am not sure who could be doing any better with this mess. Its not his fault that he has two good pitchers on the entire staff.
By Will
August 23, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
Shaun, I agree. I said i applaud the trade. I was just saying its too bad the pitching is not better. There were no other reasonably priced options for starting pitching on the market. Bottom line is Braves are 9-10 with Mark Tex in the lineup. There is nothing to argue about here.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this
I do think is overrated thanks to maddog, smoltz, glavine, neagle, avery, chipper and maybe someone else that im missing he had good fortune in the past. Its easy to look like a genius with that kind of pitching (and chipper), If he was nearly the good some people say he is, this team no matter how bad the back end of the rotation, the wouldnt be playing so bad. Lineup is fuuuuuuuuuuuullllllll of superstars, bullpen has lots of talented people, 2 superb starters. Come on, what else do you need?
Maybe he would look better if the back end of the rotation right now as glavine #3, maddux#4 and millwood#5?
A team like that wouldnt even need a manager, even me could make a team like that win 120 games.
By Braveheart
August 23, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this
Will Sir John tried his best with Tex. No pitchers worth having were available - and certainly not at a reasonable price. The thinking probably was that when Smoltz, Hudson, James and Buddy were pitching, with their winning % over .600, Tex maybe could make that .666 when those 4 were pitching. The thinking probably was that .160 winning percentage when the craptastic fifths were pitching could be improved to maybe .250 or .333 by Tex adding a few key runs. Unfortunately, Chuck and Buddy are falling apart and the best laid plans with the options available are falling apart.
If you say, he should have had better starting pitchers at the beginning of the season, you are right. Unfortunately, Sir John’s hand were tied by the cheapskate owners prior to the season. And, unfortunately, Hampton got hurt again.
By Dave In Tampa
August 23, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
Braves have to start winning more than 2 games in a row and winning series from weaker teams before the can even dream about making the playoffs. We are just a different team when Smoltz & Hudson ar pitching. We are CONTENDERS! The next 3 games with othe other starters, we could not even sweep the Devil Rays. Until we get 2 more good starters it won’t happen this year.
I hate the Mets, but have to give them credit for stepping it up when it becomes crunch time.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this
Will Just my two cents - I agree with you, Cox is not the issue. The guy led your team to 14 straight division titles. How anyone can question his credentials based on that is ludicrous. However, I would question wether McDowell has what it takes to work with a staff and have them make the adjustments necessary to get through a season. I think the Braves , and Cox specifically, miss Mazzone more than they thought. With the O’s re-upping their interim Mgr. I wonder if Mazzone can get out of there and go back to the Braves? The only reason he left was to be with his good friend Perlozzo who got canned.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
For does of you saying that the TEX trade was not good and that it has done nothing for this team you better think twice.
This team still has a chance of winning the WC race only because TEX is here, if he was not here, we would be fighting to stay out of the cellar. He could easily be responsible for more than half the wins we have since he got here.
Maths dont lie, the guy has 25 RBI, or something like that. How many RBI do you think Thorman would have in the same period of time? 3 maybe? 5 at best? How many more games you could add to loss column if he was not here…….
If TEX was not here a Tsunami would look like a day at the park compare to how things would be at this moment. Chances of wildcard = 0.
By Will
August 23, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, see my 9:16 AM post. Braves have been devestated by pitching injuries and also just lack of performance. I dont think anything could have been done differently for starting pitchers. Salty hit 2 HR and 7 RBI lats night, but yet i am thinking i cant b*** about that cause Tex was well worth it. I wanted nothing to do with sending Salty somewhere for some meidocre, quick-fix pitcher. All i was saying is it sucks Braves are 9-10 with Tex in the lineup, he is personally doing everything he can.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
Overlord,
The lineup is second is runs scored and the pitching is average. Two really good starters and several above average relievers do not a great pitching staff make.
And no one is arguing that Cox is worth 10, 15, even 5 or 6 games in the standings. They are just arguing that he isn’t worth isn’t costing the Braves games or at least isn’t costing the Braves any more games than any other manager.
I do have a hard time believing any manager is worth more than four or five games in a season. Point is most people believe Cox is one of the better managers in the game, not that he’s going to turn a mediocre team into a contender or a good one into a great one, necessarily.
By Lee in S. GA
August 23, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this
Understand it is part of the game but the injuries to Hampton and Gonzo were devastating to this team this year. I fully believe with those two we could add another 7 or 8 victories at present time and therefore be side by side with the Mets or perhaps ever a couple of games up on them. You cannot blame injuries on Cox.
By Will
August 23, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this
Dont let this Tex stuff spiral out of control NOBODY said the trade wasnt worth it. I was simply stating that it is unfortunate the Braves are 9-10 with him in the lineup.
By Brian20
August 23, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this
Hey ROBERT did you ask Bobby Cox out on a date and he said NO? Get off his back, I’m sure if you were our manager we would be at least 10 games a head of the Mets. Yeah it is his fault that our 3-5 starters suck. Get a clue.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this
Well, I’m not in agreement with Robert. I think he goes over the line. However, he does have some points. Something is not right with this team. This is a talented team. Last year’s team was a talented team. So, why aren’t they winning? It has to be either the players or the managers or a combination of both.
I read what McCann said and he is right. However, does he really believe it? Does the rest of the team? Was he just giving the obligatory line?
Yes, the pitching has been bad but not all year. Chuck James hasn’t been great but he keeps the team in the game. Same goes for Carlyle. Cormier did that last night and in his two previous starts. It is too easy to lay it all at the feet of the pitching staff. Something inside or in their heads is missing.
Teixeira looks like he is a pretty intense guy but how long will it be before that is stripped from him? McCann and Francoeur’s enthusiasm has certainly wained since their arrivals. Being buisnesslike is fine but sometimes their needs to be some good old raw emotion. Look what it has done for the Yankees. The usually quiet Jorge Posada speaks up and challenges the manhood of his teammates. He challenges their hunger and desire. And, the Yanks have been hot ever since. Coincidence? I don’t think so!
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this
Mcdowell has to go. Someone needs to go after a performance like this season.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
Anders,
Can we really blame Cox or McDowell? I mean what player is significantly under-performing what we would reasonably expect from them besides Andruw? And look at the players that are over-performing what we would reasonably expect—Willie Harris, Peter Moylan, to a certain extent Tim Hudson and Edgar Renteria, and not many people expected Chipper and Francoeur and Kelly Johnson and Matt Diaz to be quite as good as they’ve been this season. I’m not saying the coaching staff has anything to do with players over-performing necessarily but most Braves aren’t far off from any reasonable projections that were made or that we could have made at the beginning of the season.
Could it be the Braves are playing to their talent level? Could it be that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing and if they miss the playoffs it’s because they simply weren’t good enough to make the playoffs? Could it be it’s not really anyone’s fault, except maybe Schuerholz for not putting together a better team, but then again maybe he was just doing the best with the resources he had?
By Will
August 23, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Anders, I definitely agree about missing Leo Mazzone, but i am not real sure what he could do with this mess. Leo used to work magic though, Jaret Wright went from out of the big leagues to 15 game winner.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
Shaun you have this wonderful way of hedging - which is what most bs artists do when asked to put the rubber to the road
In one post you say he is a great manager. Next post he is “I do have a hard time believing any manager is worth more than four or five games in a season. Point is most people believe Cox is one of the better managers in the game”
Then you say he isnt going to turn a mediocre team into a playoff team. But before this you’ve spewed about what managerial wizardry it took to get several Braves teams to the playoffs
It aint the burden of proof that’s on me. It’s the burden of understanding that’s on you (and your fellow Cox apologists). You’re dismissing me by saying I am wrong because I cant make idiots see what’s in front of their faces.
I have told you again and again why other folks in baseball (and it’s not everyone - not even nearly eberyone - it’s just everyone you wanna cite about it) lauds on Cox, but you choose to ignore that rational arguement as well
If you cant accept that his playoff record proves he is incompetent, because you think it requires a pitching staff of Ryan, Feller, and Koufax (and a lot of luck to boot)to compete in the playoffs, then you’re gonna fail
Statistics are TOOLS.Using a tool and using it properly are two entirely different things. And, BEING a tool, you cant comprehend the difference. Anyone trying to tell us that Andruw Jones is one of the best players in the game because he has 100 rbi in the middle of the Braves order is akin to someone using a screwdriver to remove ear wax.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
Last year’s team was not as talented as this year’s team. Hudson is on his game, Smoltz is pitching well, the bullpen is better although still not what it should be. The offense takes more pitches. Something is wrong with the team. Lacking the fire.
By Will
August 23, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
Robert (Justice is best) I think Tex will be stipped of his intense mentality very soon. Last night’s popout with bases loaded one out was his first “Now you are a real Brave” moment. It seems like too much to ask for anyone to even hit a sac fly when they are losing in the mid or late innings. This team is pressing to the max, you can see it in their faces.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
Will,
What happened wit Tex last night? I missed it and the details are sketchy in the paper.
I am concerned about Renteria’s defense when he comes back. I have had those high ankle sprains and I know how long it takes to really recover. His range was already average and this will lessen it. I hope BC does what’s best for the team. He is loyal to a fault. Any thoughts about him going to 2nd with KJ and MD in LF? I thought he used to play 2nd years ago with the Cards.
Is Robert still raging against the machine? Cox makes mistakes or misjudgments, but hindsight is always 20/20. Retro-Robert lives in a perpetual world of coulda, shoulda ,woulda. He is the High Priest of Hindsight, the Rector of Retrospection, the Big Wig of Backtracking. I could go on but why waste another word.
Will, Don’t you think Cormier and Carlyle pitch so similarly that they should be separated in the rotation? I’d like to stick Reyes in between them.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
Cox is a good manager despite what Robert says. However, I think he does things that costs the Braves wins. He doesn’t manage the bullpen very well and that has been a criticism of his since the beginning of the run. I think his entire strategy for playing for the 3 run homer doesn’t work. Smallball wins games. It is that simple.
DOB says Cox gets in these guys’ butts when it is needed but perhaps his methods need changing. I heard Mark DeRosa on the Jim Rome Show a couple of weeks ago and he said the only team meeting the Braves have is on the first day of spring training. Now, that is just ridiculous. I have to believe a need for team meeting arises more than once a year.
Cox’s passive aggressive approach is successful to some extent. However, I don’t think it is working with this team and it is quite apparent to me.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
“Could it be the Braves are playing to their talent level?”
Shaun - Thank you for just contradicting yourself. Cuz if they are playing to their talent level, then the manager aint great - cuz great coaching gets guys to EXCEED, to OVERACHIEVE
I contend that they are in fact playing well UNDER thier talent level, because idiotic managing STIFLES
And the line about how anyone can question Cox because he delivered 14 straight division championships is so frick IGNORANT - totally unappreciative of how GREAT those Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz rotations were
Does someone really frickin think that it took COX to win division titles with those guys leading off his rotation year after year.
You give the man $10 million dollars to go play the stock market. 17 years later, his portfolio is worth $7 million. And you think he is one of the best traders cuz he the a fat portfolio -
UnbeLIEVEably IGNORANT
By JasonInMaine
August 23, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
The reason for this team’s struggles is very simple: starting rotation. That’s it. You can not win in this league with two starters. The back-end of the rotation, especially the 5th spot, has been AWFUL. They have taxed the pen. Our starters not named Smoltz or Hudson are 1-7 in their last 8 decisions. I really don’t think you have to look much further than that.
By Stu
August 23, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
Efrim, absolutely this year’s team is more talented than last year’s, and the record reflects it. Right now, we’re 66-61; a year ago after 127 games, we were 59-68.
A year ago after 127, we were 19 games out of first place; and 7 out of the wildcard, trailing 9 teams. We were OUT OF IT at this point a year ago.
Not as much improvement as we’d like, but pretty significant, and we do still have a decent shot at the playoffs this year.
By Braveheart
August 23, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
Will My bad. Saw your post to Shaun after I had posted.
Robert You again are maniacal in proving your point about Cox. You have many valid points but get so over the top, the good points get lost. If you stopped trying to sell the implausible lone gunman theory so hard, and considered all the other factors in the conspiracy in your arguments, you would find more people who agree with your valid points about Bobby Cox.
Stop trying so hard to make a patsy and Oswald out of Cox. Instead, maybe treat him as just one of the co-conspirators in the assassination of the postseasons.
Many of the things you take him to task for are damned if he does or damned if he does not type things. He left this pitcher in too long, took this one out too early, played the hot hand here over the guy who produced throughout the regular season, failed to play the hot hand in favor of the guy who produced during the regular season and so on. You completely fail to acknowledge that he never had a bona fide closer except for Smoltz.
You also poo poo way too much how much the Yankees bench, in conjunction with the pen, in 96 and 99 tipped the balance in the favor of the Yankees. Wetteland, Stanton, Rivera, Nelson, Boggs, Oneill, Tino, Chad Curtis, Tim Raines, Leyritz, Wade Boggs, Charlie Hayes, Strawberry, etc., etc., etc. all played key parts in knocking off the Braves those years coming off the bench or out of the pen.
You focus way too much on the strength of the rotation and lineup kind of like a fantasy league player does and seem to totally ignore the pen and the bench. In the postseason, the lineups and rotations are pretty evenly matched. Without key hits and key innings from relievers in the postseason, it ain’t gonna work. Whatever slight advantage the Braves may have had at times in rotation and lineup in the postseason was often negated by the weak bench & pen.
The biggest example of your hypocrisy is that you go nuts about Wohlers pitching in the 8th in game 4 of 1996 but then go nuts about Maddux and Glavine being left in the 8th in other games during the postseason. You can’t have it both ways. Closers in the 8th should be good enough to be trusted. If they can’t, then that ain’t the manager’s fault.
Again, whether you remove or keep a HOF pitcher in the 8th inning of a postseason game really is the biggest damned if you do, damned if you don’t type scenarios. See Pedro with Grady Little. You can’t say Cox is stupid for Putting Wohlers in the 8th but then say Cox should be yanking HOFers and not letting them pitch the 8th.
Which scrubby pitcher who is not a HOFer and who did not have the talent of Wohlers would you have preferred Cox going with? And if that scrub who was not a HOFer and did not have the talent of Wohlers blew the game, would you still be giving Cox a hard time about a damned if he does, damned if he does not decision? Of course, you would because the manager to you would be the failure and not the players who failed to execute in the situations their manager asked them to.
By steve
August 23, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
The Braves should focus on winning games. You can’t worry what the Mets are doing if you can’t even win a series against the Reds. The Braves do not need to focus on the Mets or the Wildcard. They need to focus on every game they play. You cannot control anything else.
By DirtyDawg
August 23, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
It’s not that the Braves should be ‘focusing’ on the Wild-Card, or the Division - winning something should always be ‘in focus’ and the goal. No, the thing they should have been committed to and focusing on, is the future. While Salty was knocking in seven last night, ‘Tesh’ was watching three strikes in virtually the same spot that that damn ump had been calling all night. Shoot, even Weathers saw that he was getting the call and told his catcher that he was gonna keep throwing it…and he did.
Yeah, JS got a lot of ‘kudos’ for his trade deadline moves, and they may pan out yet, but we’ll rue the day we let the kid get away.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
Will After watching Peterson with the Mets the last few years I believe that the pitching coach can actually have more of an effect on wins and losses short term than the manager. He works closely with each guy and try’s to get the guy to a point where he can be most effective. The Mets are loaded with reclamation projects all under Peterson’s tutalage. None are superstars and all have their ups and downs , but as a whole the staff over performs. I remember when I first came to this blog I read a lot of comments about ” How can the Mets be leading the division with no offense this year and that rag tag pitching staff?” I said at that time it was Peterson piecing it together one guy at a time. Need more proof look at what Duncan did with his staff last year in St. Louis. How about how the Yanks haven’t won it all since Stottlemeyer left?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
Efrim, they do lack the fire. They lack intensity. They don’t have the edge they need. Even laid back teams like the Angels and Red Sox have that “edge” to them. You can see the intensity. This Braves team just goes through the motions. If they win, great. If they lose, oh well we’ll get ‘em tomorrow. The problem with the “well get ‘em tomorrow” philosophy is that eventually there is no tomorrow!
By Robert
August 23, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
Cox is not the reason that back end of the rotation is mediocre.
But maybe they’d be LESS mediocre if they had a manager who could teach them more than how to dig turds out their nostrils
AND Cox IS the reason that when we DO get a decent contribution from the mediocre parts of the team, we STILL lose
Cox IS in fact worth 10 to 15 games a season - for the competition
By Will
August 23, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Tampa, Tex struck out looking to end the game on a terrible call and was totally irate. Definitely would have gotten ejected if the game was not over. It was refreshing to see honestly.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
I really can’t accept people saying that it isn’t the Braves year and that is why they aren’t performing. There has to be a reason. And I can’t accept that the 5th starter and Andruw Jones is the reason that this team will miss the playoffs.
One more thing
It would be an absolute joke if we finished with a worse record than the Phillies. They have more injuries than any team in baseball this year, yet they have a better record than us. Manuel has done a great job with that team.
Can anyone say closed door team meeting???
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
*I do have a hard time believing any manager is worth more than four or five games in a season. *
Shaun I think that is so far from reality that i cant believe you typed that. Man you could look at it on any sport. Head coaches and manager are the base of what a team becomes, not the superstars.
Why do you think once Lasorda was gone the dodgers have not seen the light again?, What about the A´s. Look at the cards coming back, coincidence? Look at jim leyland, he is a winner wherever he goes, same for joe torre, same for pat riley.
You think phil jackson had nothing to do with the bulls greatness? think twice pal.
How many games (or superbowls) you think the 49ers won because of bill walsh. He is one of the biggest examples that a coach or manager that has brains, brings championships.
They teach you what it takes to win.
Do you really think mike Scioscia has nothing to do with the intensity and consistency that the angels have?
think about it. Bobby doesnt have the slightest idea on how to light up fire on their player, i would even say he doesnt let player show too much emotion.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
The thing that frustrates me the most is that JS will go out this offseason and improve the starting rotation, but then, something else will go wrong next year. The offense will struggle, or the bullpen will implode again. I’m sick of .500 baseball. It has been a season and a half.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
Robert,
Dude, I like to read your ramblings because it helps me vent my frustrations but sometimes me thinks you must be on crack. 93 - The Braves were flat out tanked by trying to chase down SF up to the last game of the season. Philly in the meantime had 3 players go out of their minds, Dykstra, Schilling, and Williams. It also didn’t help any that Maddox got hurt in game 6. 97 - Eric Gregg in game 5 (Says it all, and Tom Terrific gives up 5 in the first of game 6). Not much anything even a Hall of Fame manager good have done about either of those. What ticks me off the most about Gregg was he was calling most of his Phantom strikes to Left Handed hitters. Something the Marlins didn’t have very many of. 98 - Other than the Game 6 lineup which included 2 light weights in the field (And remember we’ll never know if there were health reason’s that might have dictated that because Cox keeps those quiet) once again Glavine cough’s up a stinker on the mound. I honestly see a trend with Glavine when the Braves are tied in a series or behind. (He chokes) Remember 92 Game 6 gutty but he choked. 98 Twice (You guessed it choked). 99 Choked with a 5 run lead. 2001 Lost Game 6, 2002 Lost his only start. 2003 Game 1 GAG….Game 6 GAG. Whmmm see a pattern. In fact instead of calling Cox the Donk. Maybe we should start putting that on Glavine. Yes he did pitch the game of his live in Game 6 of the 95 WS but boy did he stink it up from 97 on. In fact I would love to see these Braves make it to the post season with 3 pitchers of worth that don’t include Glavine becuase then I bet they could at least make it to the WS.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
“Cox is a good manager despite what Robert says. However, I think he does things that costs the Braves wins. “
JIB - so a good manager costs his team wins? If that were the case, wouldnt it be better not to HAVE a manager, cuz, even if he’s a good one, the team would win more WITHOUT him?
Good God, the levels to which the illogic is taken to support Cox is enough to make me just laugh.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Braveheart - when Grady Little mismanaged Pedro, he was called to account
Who would I have pitched in the 8th in game 6 in 1996? - Bielecki
And Cox isnt a patsy, in the way the word is usually used. A patsy is the guy blamed for someone else’s mistakes
Y’all are turning 300-game winners and perennial All-Stars into patsies
Cox rightfully desrves the blame. I am just doing my best to pound this truth into brainwashed minds
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Robert,
Pre-season projections I saw had the Braves anywhere from 82-92 wins. And that’s what they are going to do. But you already knew that, since you are such a student of the game.
And what manager significantly has gotten their players to exceed expectations more than Bobby Cox?
Keep calling me an idiot, etc. instead of providing some real evidence for your outrageous claim. I’m sure that makes people jump to your side.
Let me show you what I mean:
Here is a list of Diamond Mind projected wins, expected/Pythagorean wins and actual wins for the Braves every year 1998-2006:
Year - Projected/Pythagorean/Actual 1998 - 104/106/106 1999 - 96/98/103 2000 - 101/90/95 2001 - 97/90/88 2002 - 88/96/101 2003 - 86/96/101 2004 - 86/95/96 2005 - 86/91/90 2006 - 85/85/79
The Braves have exceeded their projected record six times in the nine seasons. They exceeded their Pythagorean record five times in the nine seasons.
We can look at the average of the total projected and Pythagorean wins compared to total actual wins. This may give us a small clue into Bobby Cox’s impact 1998-2006.
The idea is that if the Braves outperform their projected record, Cox may have fired up the troops to play better than expected. Of course we also have to recognize that Schuerholz may have made some great trades during the season or that certain players may have played over their heads for some other reason that had nothing to do with Cox.
Also, the idea is that if they outperform their Pythagorean record, it means Cox made some good moves at the right time that helped the Braves score and prevent runs at the right time. So even if the Braves were outscored in a stretch of games, they still won because their runs scored/prevented came in important situations, perhaps due to good strategy by Cox.
Here are the numbers:
Total projected - 829 Total Pythagorean - 847 Avg. projected and Pythagorean - 838 Total actual - 859
That’s a difference of 21 between average projected/Pythagorean and actual wins. So, 21 divided by 9 seasons is an extra 2.33 wins a season.
We can’t be sure how good this is without some comparison to other managers, but obviously it is a positive number and it seems like a pretty significant difference.
The Braves have played what seems like significantly better than expected according to a couple of different metrics since 1998. I think you have to believe Cox has something to do with it, or at the very least he didn’t cost the Braves wins (for those who think Cox is/was a bad manager).
By Will
August 23, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
Agree with all who are saying the Braves lack fire and intensity. This team can be so irritating to watch. I had to flip the channel for a bit last night just cause its so easy to tell when they are pressing. The most irritating thing about this series so far is still the monsoon of run support in a blowout with Huddy on the mound. I dont care if it was 8-7 two nights ago, they were still only 1 run behind for 4 innings!!
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
And one other thing Robert and the rest of the bashers keep forgetting is that the baseball season is long and taxing. When you second guess a manager you don’t know what information he has and is basing his decisions on. Maybe he knows a certain reliever is gassed and shouldn’t be used that day. Or a starters arm doesn’t have much life that day. Or maybe he knows that Chippers thumbs are barking and needs to sit so he has to go with someone like WoodC%$# because that’s all he’s got at the position. Please stop assuming that everything is normal every single day on the baseball field. You never know what’s affecting the team on a certain day. Shoot you don’t even know if they had the charter from HELL the night before or if the player had a monster fight with his wife and kids or has a sick relative. Believe me, even little things like that can have an effect on a person’s performance the next day.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
Overlord Those are real good examples of the effect a manager can have on a team. Leyland’s is probably one of the best. It seems like a long time ago that the Tigers were such a joke under Trammel. It was only like two years ago. He changed the whole perception of that team. Jackson with the Bulls I’m not so sure of. Jordan in his day and just about any other 4 will suffice for me. But that’s nitpicking on my part. Overall you make a good argument
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
Will,
I saw you mention the pitching coach. I have been curious as to the conditioning processes of the pitching staff. I have sensed a decline in the average innings pitched by starters since he has been here. I know there may be a correlation because of Glavine and Maddux leaving. Still, watching these guys continually get spent around 5 to 6 innings, even when they provide quality starts, I think its worth looking at.
Shaun
Be a good lad and give us some statistical validation. I think there’s something to this. I believe the Yankers fired a conditioning coach when they were dropping like flies. A player’s conditioning is the cornerstone to an optimal performance. Except in Wick’s case, where a waiting cheeseburger fills the bill.
By STRETCH
August 23, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this
Wonder how this team has fallen to where they are? Well here you go:
2 starting pitchers and one who has not thrown a pitch in 2 years(Hampton) and he has to make a statement in 2008. (Pitching has been going down hill since Maddux left while management stood still)
Andruw hitting clean-up a 100 games and batting 190 - 210.
Too many games with more than 2 runners on base and getting…0, nada, nothing!
Blown saves…more than i can count on my fingers!
No heart, No fire, No consistency. One night they hit and dont pitch, and the next night they pitch and dont hit!
I suspect that CHIPPER is worried about his status as franchise player these days. Chemistry might be shaky in the clubhouse.
This team on paper looks just as great or better than the Mets and Yankees, but on paper and on the field are two different things. The Mets and Yanks are simply getting it done!
And 1 WS championship out of 5 trips. 14 Straight pennants?! Didnt even make it out of the first round that last five years? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! THANKS BOBBY COX!
I look at the Braves and look at the Diamondbacks, and i get sick to my stomach. This team doesnt have what it takes…PERIOD so Braves fans, we are currently where we should be…THE THIRD BEST TEAM IN THE NL EAST.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Oh now the ump was to blame in 93 also?
Get real.
Why did the Phillies have several guys get hot in the playoffs while our guys went cold?
Could it be that the Phillies wanted it? Cuz they’d be told that it was there and gettable, for the team that wanted the most? As opposed to being told, whatever, it’s just a crapshoot anyway?
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
I agree with each and every single thing robert has said about Cox.
The man obviously has some knowledge of the game, he does good things, but he is not a great manager, maybe hubbard would do better. Maybe even julio would do better.
Bobby makes moves i think about for weeks and never find an answer, not to go far in time, i can asure you that 70% of you people were in disagree last night when he pulled cormier and even worse, he used woodward as pinch hitter.
By Will
August 23, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
I think the main reason the Braves press so much is for Bobby Cox. The players like him so much and have so much respect for him i am sure they hate it when Cox gets thrown under the bus for every decision.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
And for those of you who are going to go nuts if the Braves win those first two games in St Louis, do not get too happy. Wait for them to actually win some games that Smoltz and Hudson don’t start. More than just one. I expect the Braves to break off a 3 game winning streak the next few days. I won’t get too high off that. I want to see a win on Sunday and Monday for me to get really positive…..
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this
Overlord,
Dodgers won 90 games the last year under LaSorda and 88 the year after. Wow, two games.
The A’s winning percentage actually jumped the year after LaRussa left. And they lost 94 games LaRussa’s next-to-last season.
The Cardinals weren’t exactly a bad team during Torre’s tenure. And they finished under .500 in two of LaRussa’s first four seasons.
Look how far the Tigers jumped with Alan Trammell, before Leyland even got there. It took Leyland four seasons before he had a contender in Pittsburgh.
The Angels finished right at or under .500 in three of Scioscia’s first four seasons.
Not taking away from any of these guys. I agree, they are all great managers. Just that managers can only do so much. I’ve seen little evidence that managers are worth all that many wins. Of course even a few wins can mean the difference in a pennant race, so you obviously want a good one.
Also, other sports are different. Football coaches probably make more of an impact than baseball coaches because the game can be built around their schemes. In baseball a player can either get on base or he can’t, he has power or he doesn’t, he throws strikes or he doesn’t. A manager or coach may be able to make a difference but he can’t make Neifi Perez into Nomar.
By Will
August 23, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this
Robert, Have to agree with you abut 93 and the Phillies. I dont care how much energy was spent to catch the Giants, the Braves still tanked the playoffs. Maddux pitched like s** was one of many reasons. The excuse of the other team getting “hot” and the Braves being “cold” has gone on for years now. Its funny. I dont even wanna talk about the past, but the Braves have choked numerous times in the playoffs, that is not even debatable.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
Robert,
Yeah, I do think the Phillies won 4 out of 7 against the Braves. How many times during a baseball season do you see really good teams lose 4 of 7? It happens. I’m sure the Braves didn’t want to win all that bad. It’s not like they would mind people like you saying “there goes a 100+ win team that choked” or “they can’t win when it counts.”
That’s not the same thing as “it’s a crapshoot.”
By Lee in S. GA
August 23, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
Even with Smoltz and Hudson pitching in the Cardinals series, St Louis happens to be one of the hottest teams in baseball at present time. No sure wins there either.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Thank you anders
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
Anders,
Actually the Tigers jumped from 43 wins to 72 under Trammell.
By knowitall
August 23, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
To all all of the doom and gloomers: The universal goal set by the people on this blog was a 7-3 roadtrip. I saw that those numbers quoted repeatedly here. As bad as the losses of the last two days have been, that goal is still within reach. So why is the season over all of a sudden? Two games out is two games out. And unless there is only one game left to play, there still always a chance.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this
Geez Robert get over 93 and 97 I don’t see how you could ever lay those on Cox. For that matter I don’t think you could lay many on him except 98 and even in 98 they only made it to game 6 because Cox made some incredible moves in Game 5 to help them get the win. Remember using Millwood out of the pen in the Eighth and using Maddox for the save. Not exactly by the book moves but yet he did them. I think the one constant you can look to in the last 5 years is that the Braves have tried to make do in the Post Season and in the last few seasons on the cheap. With bench and role players that were bargain basement FA or just off the farm rookies.
By Will
August 23, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
Knowitall, Do you think people are too dumb to realize the Braves are still “in” the Wild Card race? I am tired of watching this crap baseball night in and night out and have a right to be frustrated.
By Robert
August 23, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
Shaun - You use Pythagoreans when it suits you, and poo-poo them when it doesnt
The teams you mention that won a few more regular season games than they were supposed to - let’s just start with 98 team - That team that was projected to win 106 games - were they projected to not show up for the NLCS?
And consider this - Valid projections would already factor in the manager. I know this - gimme any team, and I’ll project them to win 10 less games than I would otherwise if you tell me Cox is gonna be manager.
Poor Braves - They were tired. Awwww! They got scredew by the umps. AWWWWW! They were pulling so hard for Cox because in realtiy, they didnt want championships for themselves, they wanted it only for Donk. They wouldve phoned it in for anyone else. Wait - they did that in 93, 97, 98, and every year since 99. And they did it in 96 too, once the Yankees pulled even thanks to Cox’s massive release of cranial flatulance in game 4.
By J.D. Phillips
August 23, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
The Braves need a no-nonsense type of manager. Someone not afraid to bench A.J. when he is slumping which is always. Someone to make better decisions on when to pull pitchers and when not to pull them. Someone to tell management to get a player like Woodward out of a Braves uniform. Of course this would end Smoltz’s and Chipper’s tenure with the Braves. They would both demand a trade with that type of manager.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
And one other thing. Having played high school and college baseball I think I can safely say that no manager ever made me hit better in clutch situations or field better or try harder. Maybe there are baseball managers that have that magical ability but I never found one. The only thing that manager ever did that helped me in times of tribulation was give me encouragment instead of berating. Because generally the managers that berated I didn’t want to try as hard for.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
*I suspect that CHIPPER is worried about his status as franchise player these days. Chemistry might be shaky in the clubhouse. * that one is a big one—- that is a fact to me.
Shaun Schemes like playing small ball?, hit & run? making sure every single player on the team knows how to bunt? The other day jojo wasnt able to lay down a bunt, the guy is in the majors, they get paid millions to get a bunt down. Does bobby know the word BUNT? How about pitching around pujols, he took care of us last time around because they pitched him as if he was woodward.
Latest unbelievable scene was renteria last night. If the guy is not ready, do not put him and the rest of the team in jeopardy.
By Will
August 23, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
Knowitall, PS: The goal of a 7-3 road trip is absolutely not in reach. That would mean a 3,4,5 starter pitching more then 5 innings and winning a game. I also read a post saying Huddy and Smoltz are not “automatic” wins at STL and i totally agree with that. STL is a hot team right now.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this
Someone mentioned Jim Leyland being a genius everywhere he goes. I agree he is a very good manager, but he has also made some, what others would percieve as, bonehead moves. Right off the top of my head, bringing Stan Belinda in in 92 for Doug Drabek, who despite giving up a double to TP, was still pitching well. Knowing that Gant, Hunter and Cabrera, all notorious fast ball hitters, were coming up, he elects to take out a guy who excels against these type of hitters and brings in a guy who basically only locates his fastball. Cabrera never met a fastball he didn’t like, and so it was a fortuitous night for the Braves that we won a game we could have easily lost if Leyland had stuck to his guns. I, for one, was elated to see Drabek leave, and instantly went from despair to elation because I knew we had a great chance vs Belinda.
So Leyland has made his mistakes as well. Even the best are not perfect. Thank you JL for that priceless moment of Sid Bream chugging around third, essentially the little engine that could, and with a perfect slide, provided the most exciting moment in Brave’s History. Thanks Jim!!
By Anders
August 23, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
Shaun First of all Trammell managed the 43 win team. Secondly, giving anyone credit for jumping from 43 to 72 is like giving the Mazzone credit tonight if his pitching staff keep the opposition to 10 runs after last nights debacle! Trammell won 43, 71 and 72. Leyland added 24 wins to the 72 and went to the World Series in one season. Let’s not forget his Marlin days too. Only mistake - The Rockies. Took him 3 years to get over the effects of that stint!
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
I will probably repost this later in the day for two reasons. First, it may get lost in all of these tomes being cranked out today. Also, some people do not go back 1 cycle-of-posts, much less to the “beginning”. That is why, I guess, that we get 25 posts a day saying the same thing. Some people are content to leave themselves, “thread”-bare, so to speak.
Several people, whose advice I value, have told me that my “kidding’ is too rough, even harsh. In my defense I will say that, of late, my “humor” has been as much directed at myself as at others. Also, I take “good-natured” ribbing, good-naturedly. So, be critical, but also be objective.
Yes, I react to people talking down to me, or “preaching” to me—some would say—“violently”. But, I have sufficient education and a preacher of my own so that I will not take the former, and I don’t need the latter.
But, I am turning over a proverbial new leaf. I will only “kid” with my “friends” who know how to take it, and me. As for you others, if I address you at all, it will be straight-forwardly and “humorless”.
One final thing, however, if you choose, on your own, to take “exception” with/to me, you will continue to do so at your own risk.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
I agree Hudson and Smoltz aren’t automatic wins, but at this point, the Braves have no choice. If they want to make the playoffs they need to win tonights game and then the next two series. 6-4 might not be what they desired out of this stretch but if they don’t have a winning record on this road trip, what is the point?
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
JD Phillips i agree with you, but that aint going to happen, cox will remain her forever. A manager that does not sits AJ at least once in a while is a complete looser. AJ did good last year, this is 2007 bobby, the guy is doing baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad this year. Bench him!!!!!!!!
By Will
August 23, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
Overlord, Agree on Renteria it even said in an article yesterday that he wasnt entirely healthy yet and Escobar is duplicating his stats filling in for him. That made no sense at all.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this
What about Joe Girardi as the Braves skipper nextyear? He did a good job with the Marlins and I don’t think he’s getting the Yankee gig even though he passed on the O’s job in hopes of getting it. He really would love the Cubs job but Sweet Lou is secure there. Ex catcher who knows how to handle a pitching staff and he certainly could relate to todays players better than Cox. Just a thought.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Knowiall, the Braves would need to win tonight plus win 5 of 6 from the Cards and Marlins, which would include a sweep. Do you really see this team doing that?
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Genius managers make mistakes, bobby cox is a mistake by himself.
By Julia
August 23, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
It is almost lunch time. Can I interest anyone in a delicious SHRIMP SAMMICH?
T-a-s-t-y and d-l-i-g-h-t-f-u-l.
I love SHRIMP SAMMICHES and you will, too!
By Will
August 23, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
Efrim, you are right the Braves have no choice but to win every game the two aces pitch. Even if that happens they still need a back end pitcher to pitch a good game at some point, or maybe the offense can divide up 14 runs over a couple different games instead of pouring it on in a blowout. I think thats too much to ask though. Two nights ago the Braves were finishing off a 1 run loss without much of a fight while simultaneously the Mets were coming back on Trevor Hoffman, that summed up the way things are going. I will be rooting for the Mets tonight, a padres win does the braves no good.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this
I like the girardi idea, but i think the braves could find a guy with more experience, i think lots of guy would love to manage for the braves. But to me reality is that cox will be followed byt someone within the organization, tp, hubbard or someone from the minors.
But what i would love to see, even if he never makes the team win a WS is Maddog managing the braves, that guy would be so great for this team.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this
Anders
Agree on Girardi after Cox retires.
WILL
Dude, I asked you what you thought at 10:00 and 10:35. Don’t leave me hanging.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
Cox will be gone after next season. We’ll see if the Braves go internal(Terry Pendleton) or go outside the organization.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
Any word on edgar yet? I have the feeling it is not so bad. I think it will not take him to the DL again, but some 3 more days, when a guy is injuried the area is much tender and anything can make it feel pain, a mechanism to avoid further damage, proof is he was not helped walk off the field, and he was angry, not in pain while in the dogout.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
Julia
Don’t get it. Don’t think I want to. Getting old. Are you the dinner bell?
By Mikey
August 23, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this
The Mets will come into Atlanta and bury any hope the Braves have at the division title so yes I would be thinking wild card if I were the Braves.
By Will
August 23, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
Tampa, I agree about your pitching coach observations. to be honest i dont think Roger Mc is a good pitching coach and i think he should be let go, but i didnt really feel like getting harassed for saying that. Most of these pitchers are absolutely spent after 5 or 6 innings tops. I also do agree that Cormier and Carlysle should be split up, they are very similar pitchers and i look for a bad night out of Buddy C tonight, hope the O brings their bats this evening.
By Lew
August 23, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
Mikey-Based on what? The Braves’ 8-4 record against the Mets this year?
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Overlord
They will place him on the disabled list.
Will
Trevor Hoffman is the most overrated player in the majors. He blows big games on big stages. New York, the World Series, the All Star game.
Shaun
Still think it isn’t crucial to win games Smoltz and Hudson pitch?
By knowitall
August 23, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Will I’m frustrated too. But how many people have proclaimed that the season is over after the last two days? I mean as frustrating as it is, there is still hope. I mean they way Comier pitched last night, it would have been good enough to win on any other night over the past 3 weeks. Who knows, it’s not unthinkable that all of the starters could post wins this next time through the rotation.
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this
I week ago I post that the Mets were a 6-7 game winning streak from closing out the division and I got sh-it for it. Well prior to yesterday they had a 4 game winning steak and now they’re 6 games better than the braves. I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
By Lee in S. GA
August 23, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
I like Ned Yost as a replacement for Cox eventually. Seems like he has a little fire in him also. I think there was an incident involving him and a player this year, if I recall correctly.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
Robert,
Again, since you are making the claim that almost no one agrees with, how about you provide the evidence.
Saying the Braves don’t win in the post-season isn’t any kind of evidence that Cox is a bad manager. If he were a bad manager when it counted, how has he been able to win regular season games when the Braves needed to win to stay alive in the race?
Also, there is no excuse for losing in the playoffs…sometimes it just happens. Inferior teams win quite often in the playoffs, they just do. I don’t see how you can deny that.
Overlord,
How is it Bobby Cox’s fault if a guy doesn’t get a bunt down? And how are you going to use the example of one pitcher failing to get a bunt down as evidence Cox doesn’t know what he’s doing? How many baseball games have you watched? How often do you see pitchers fail to lay a bunt down? I’ve seen it quite a bit, even players on teams not managed by Bobby Cox.
How in the world do you know it was Cox’s decision to activate Renteria? It’s ludicrous to think that it was only Cox and doctors and Renteria himself had no say.
Anders,
If Trammell was so bad, how did the Tigers win 29 more games in the middle of his tenure? Doesn’t mean Trammell was the reason they jumped, but it also seems to suggest he wasn’t the reason they lost 119 games either.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
A game is 1/162 of a season—that’s how crucial a game is.
The Braves must win a whole lot now because they failed to win games earlier in the season. A win is worth the same whether the Braves win every game from here on out or if they opened the season with a 20-game win streak.
By bill
August 23, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
I like the idea on Girardi for manager. He woulldn’t take any crap. I don’t want Pendleton. Just don’t think he would be a fit for the Braves. Hopefully he will get the KC jib.
By Braves Fan In NY
August 23, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
Robert, I realize that you don’t like Cox, actually I think everyone realizes that at this point. But my god man give it up. Your posts are annoying. You hate Cox and that’s fine. But no matter what you say, he is going to be the manager of this team as long as he chooses to be. Get over it.
By Lew
August 23, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Tampa Brave-Joe Girardi? Are you kidding? Look what he did to destroy the Marlins’ young pitching staff after last year. Sanchez, Nolasco and Johnson all disabled this year due to Girardi’s overuse last year. Hell, Sanchez may well be shot to hell for next season, too. You just cant use pitchers 25 and under more than 30-50 innings over the previous season, or they likely end up on the DL the next year. Prior to the season I predicted that Johnson and Sanchez of the Marlins, as well as Cole Hamels of the Phillies would end up DLed based on overuse. The Marlins proved me right early in the year. The Phillies DLed Hamels yesterday. Joe Girardi? No flipping way. A manager can provide motivation without crippling his team. Girardi hasn’t figured this out yet. He took a team no one expected to do anything and messed them up for years to come by trying to prove they could win two years ahead of schedule. Sounds to me like he was more interested in building his own resume than developing a squad of baby players.
By Will
August 23, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Efrim, My point was that the Mets were making a 9th inning comeback on somebody, doesnt matter who. Although do You think the Braves could pull a comeback on Hoffman right now? i dont.
Knowitall, okay. Season is definitely not over when you are 2 games out of the wild card. I never have or will say that when the Braves are 2 games out. I have just been waiting for weeks for this to turn around and its starting to feel like its not going to. Not trying to be pessimistic, its just the feel you get when you watch this team play baseball.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Will
Mcdowell isn’t a good pitching coach, but the Braves pitching problems lie in one area. Their inability to produce quality pitchers from the minor leagues. They have done nothing in terms of that. There is hope in the low minors, but it really sickens me to see so many teams produce at least 1 pitcher that has a future in the front of the rotation. Chuck James can’t be considered a front of the rotation starter. He is a #4 and a good piece to a rotation that has capable frontline starting pitching.
I am tired of them always looking outside of the organization for pitchers. It is time they produce a Tim Lincecum or Cole Hamels of their own. Tommy Hanson and Cole Rohrbough could be those starters we are looking for, but they have yet to face the tough test of Double-A. Jo Jo Reyes has promise, but if you look at his minor league stats, he has always had control problems. That isn’t going to translate well into the majors. He has good stuff though. Better stuff than Chuck James. He just needs to work on his command.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Robert,
Good point about projection systems building in manager influence. But that still doesn’t change the fact that Cox has rarely underperformed projections. So at the very least we have solid evidence to suggest he’s not costing them games.
From 1998-2006 the Braves won 859 games. Diamond Mind projected them to win 829. If Diamond Mind did build in a Bobby Cox factor into their projections, that still doesn’t address if Cox is so bad why did the Braves over-perform those projections?
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
Ankle sprains rear their ugly heads when making sudden or quick moves. Walking off the field means nothing.
By Ron Roberts
August 23, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Robert. It’s a given that Bobby Cox won’t retire until next season. So swear off rooting for the Braves, man. I’ve never seen anybody so passionate about something they can do absolutely nothing to change, bro.
Mel Gibson in “Conspiracy Theory” comes to mind.
You blame the shortcomings in the playoffs almost solely on Bobby Cox, and most of the rest of us will agree with you on some calls and disagree with you on others. Okay, we get it, man.
You wouldn’t get arguments out of us about questionable decisions he’s made this and every season he’s managed the Braves. Guess what? It’s that way with every manager of every team.
What you can’t say about any other manager, though, is that they’ve coached teams to 14-consecutive division titles; what you can’t say about any other manager is that they got the most out of players like J.D. Drew, Kevin Millwood, John Burkett, Jaret Wright, Adam freakin’ LaRoche; What you can’t say about any other manager is that that they could coach a team with as many rookies as the Braves used in 2004 to the playoffs.
Hey, he’s fair game for a lot of questionable decisions. But looking at his managerial style up-close is like looking at a fine piece of art. The brush strokes might look splotchy and scattered, up-close, but when you back up, it’s the fine piece of work folks travel for miles to see.
So please, for the love of God and all things holy, let it go. There has to be other aspects of your life that’s suffered from neglect, what with all the time and energy (and research and recollection) you’ve spent on this one campaign you’ve waged over the years.
Water your plants; pet your animals; say hi to your kids; kiss your wife. If any of ‘em are all still there, they’ll appreciate it.
Bobby’s not going until he’s ready to go, and you’re not going to change folks’ minds. You’ll have a smattering of those who agree and a vast majority of those who disagree. And that’s gonna be that.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
From watching the Braves i have become a very optimistic pessimistic person when watching them. For example last night, i was glad we got a one run lead but in the back of my mind i was waiting for something bad to happen and have us to blow the lead. Is anyone else this way?
By doc
August 23, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
after the last 6 crucial games against a top dog and a has been it kind of reminds me of a time i was bird hunting in northern virginia. whenever a bird went down the guide started his mantra …. dead, dead , dead , dead, and the dogs would scramble looking for the bird.
if it were anywhere but the big a i would say it is time to bring out the dogs. only now i pray hope springs eternal, just dont want to give it up.
By Will
August 23, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
Oh for heavens sake Shaun PLEASE dont start the 1/162 game deal again. Tonights game is crucial as hell and is a must win, if not for anything else just to give the Braves a boost!!
By Lew
August 23, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
Tampa Brave-I almost forgot. Dontrelle has been a mere shadow of himself, also, since Girardi came to Miami.
By BamaBrave
August 23, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
NCZ, you caught sh#t because your statement (about the Mets being a 7 game win streak away from the division title) was simplistic and obvious. I don’t think anyone took it as a prediction…I certainly didn’t. So I wouldn’t risk a pulled muscle trying to pat yourself on the back.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Lew,
You could be right or perhaps he worked with what he had, like BC this year. I seem to remember him maximizing the talent on that team. Not sure how you translate last year to this one with those injuries.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this
Robert
The only Postseason game I’ve ever said anything about the strike zone on was that laughable strike zone of Eric Gregg’s. Its one thing to constantly call close pitches strikes but man he was calling strikes a foot into the right handed batters box as strikes. I don’t think those pitches could have even been hit unless the hitter stepped on the plate to hit them and then they would have been automatically out anyway. Look who had the big hits in that game. Devon White - Right Handed. Jeff Conine - Right Handed. Charles Johnson - Right Handed. Edgar Renteria - Right Handed. Who were the Braves main threats that year. Kenny Lofton - Left Handed. Micheal Tucker - Left Handed. Fred Mgriff - Left Handed. Chipper Jones - Left Handed. Mark Lemke - Left Handed. Ryan Klesko - Left Handed. Our Right Handed threats - Andruw Jones - was a platoon for Klesko and didn’t start also he vanished during this post season. Jeff Blauser - Be still my beating heart. Javy Lopez - didn’t vanish but didn’t excel either. And what was on the bench that could help? Danny Bautista, Keith Lockhart - Left Handed, Eddie Perez - Before he got clutch in 99. And Greg Colbrunn - Right Handed and also got a hit as a pitch-hitter. Oh yeah can’t forget that awesomee Tommy Gregg (Also Left Handed). As for the Marlins roster that day. C - Charles Johnson. - Right Handed 1b - Jeff Conine - Right Handed - 2b - Luis Castillo - Switch Hitter (Book says to throw him inside). Bobby Bonilla - Switch hitter (see Castillo). Moises Alou - Right Handed. Gary Sheffield - Surprise he’s Right Handed Too.
I think I’ve made my point. My problem wasn’t that Gregg had a bad strike zone but that it was a particularly bad strike zone for left handed hitters. Call it luck. Call it fate what ever you want but like it or not that was the difference in that series. It was tied at 2 games a piece with our ace on the mound and Donkey in Blue behind the plate that was blatantly calling a different strike zone for Right Handed batters than for Left. Marlins predominately Right-Handed….Braves predominately Left-Handed. If you don’t believe me go back and watch it. I’ve watched it at least 3 times to make sure and yes it is very obvious. What made it even worse is it kept getting worse as the game progressed. When if anything a strike zone should be even more closely scrutinized. I hold that that was the series right there. I’ll never forget the look on Mgriff’s face when he was wrung for the second time on a called 3rd strike a foot off the plate in the Right Handed batters box and I still can’t believe that Bobby didn’t get thrown out of that game. And for that matter its a miracle that Maddux didn’t either. Because he had the look of utter frustration after about the 3rd inning.
By NCBravesFan
August 23, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
Can we for once and all agree that everything that has ever gone wrong on the baseball field is Bobby’s fault. Every player can take safe harbor in the fact that Cox is an idiot.
Every bad pitch, every missed cut-off man, every strikeout with RISP … all the fault lies with one Robert Cox.
In fact, how about if we take it a step further and say that all of us can wipe our mistakes clean and blame Cox for all our mistakes.
So kick the dog, file that work report late, cheat on your spouse. Screw up anything! It’s all Bobby’s fault!
If we cede that, will you guys shut up, once and for all? Make your point and move on. Jesus, life is too short to be writing war and peace over and over and over again!
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
Just think braves fans. You gave up Saltamaccia and a few other prospects for Texiera and Dotel just to finish 3rd. Lew do you have any more If’s and Maybe’s?? How about we revisit some of those predictions.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
Will
Understood on Hoffman. The Mets are a better team. You need not say more than that. The Braves couldn’t come back on David Weathers in two staraight nights, so No, I don’t believe they would be capable of coming back on Hoffman right now.
By Will
August 23, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Efrim, well said about the farm system developing pitchers. Its been a real big problem for years.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
Again, how many teams have produced quality pitching during the time period you are talking about? My guess is, sure, some teams have done well, but the Braves are not alone in the number of quality arms they haven’t developed.
I don’t think you have to be a genius to realize pitching is hard to develop. I mean, even the Braves great pitching staffs (which may have been the best ever) only one was drafted and developed by the Braves—Tom Glavine.
When you say something like the Braves have an inability to produce quality pitching, what are you comparing it to? Looking around, I don’t see all that many teams developing tons of great pitching.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Shaun
You still don’t get it.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
No Chop Zone, don’t get too cocky. The Mets haven’t won jack crap yet! You didn’t tell us anything. The Mets are a 6 of 7 streak from letting the Braves and Phillies right back in the race. And, we know (whether you admit it or not) it is very possible the Mets could do exactly that and lose 6 of 7.
By Will
August 23, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
Colin, Welcome to my world lol! We feel that way because we know something bad is gonna happen. I knocked on wood two nights ago just for thinking that Reyes looked good through a couple innings!!
By Braves20
August 23, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
Hey guys thanks for some good laughs this morning. Specifically “Is it Bobby Cox’s fault when somebody can’t get a bunt down?” When other than during a pitcher’s at bat has he ever called for a bunt. He is the Earl Weaver of this decade.
And “Trevor Hoffman the most over-rated player in the majors.” Does this mean Jim Edmonds, Billy Wagner and a dozen others have retired? Give me that over-rated closer in my bullpen tonight!
By Julia Hater
August 23, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
I’m going to have an EGG-SALAD SAMMICH for lunch, so there, you beatch!
By Pat
August 23, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
What does Joe Simpson mean when every time a no name reliever comes in the game he says, “he’s got good stuff but his command and location need work?” Is that a nice way of saying he must have a good arm since he is in the bigs but he can’t get the side out?
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
What is the deal here today? I guess it’s time for everyone who thinks there smarter than every baseball executive to come out of the woodwork.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Will I mean i just feel bad because there my team but..i just can help but feel every time we get a lead we’ll blow it…
By Will
August 23, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Shaun, I am about ready to jump out of my office window unless you can argue me out of it.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
Don’t get what? Don’t get that producing one quality pitcher in ten years is a success for most teams?
By Lew
August 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave-It’s real easy to put the blame on him. I prdicted this spring that their pitching staff would undergo injuries this year. It happens so frequently with pitchers under the age of 25. It is almost totally predictable, it happens so often. Tom Verducci wrote an article earlier this year documenting the phenomenon. Like I said, I predicted Johnson, Sanchez and Hamels would go down and I’m not an expert. Last year, Girardi had zero expectations of winning with that team of children. All he had to do was bring them along gently and let them take everyone to the cleaners in two years. However, he pushed them (I think to prove how great a motivator he was). Now three of their top pitchers have spent multiple times on the DL. Sanchez had to have surgery and may be gone at the very least, until late 08. Dontrelle’s numbers speak for themselves. He has gone from one of the top starters in 05 to a pitcher you can’t count on for an ERA under 5 runs per game. He has had two years of steady regression. I damn well blame it on Joe G.I..
BTW-On something non-baseball related. Do you pay attention to the Bay area music scene? Have you heard of a blues guitarist named Sean Chambers still playing Tampa/St.Pete on a regular basis?
By Lee in S. GA
August 23, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Joe Giradi - he!l why don’t we just get that other a$$ that hit the home home off us in the 96 World Series.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
August 23, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Isn’t it amazing how arrogant Mets fans can be when things are going well for their team but when they aren’t they are either nowhere to be found or are on here whining to no end. Actually, my favorite thing is when they are here trying to convince us and themselves how great their team is.
Funny how you don’t hear anything about their sorry a** bullpen that has been a joke all season except for Billy Wagner. It is funny to me how some of these Mets fans don’t like to talk about what an old man Carlos Delgado looks like or how they live in stark fear that Moises Alou will move his eyelids and have to go on the DL. It amazes me how Mets fans can go on and on about their “Amazings” but can’t explain how they have struggled to stay in first all year. If they are so “amazing” then why aren’t they up by 10 games.
By Lew
August 23, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
NoBrainZone-We’ll visit predictions when the season is ended. You haven’t even taken out the Philies yet, much less the Braves.
By beachcomber
August 23, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
True Braves Fan - I absolutely cannot believe you have watched that farce from the 1997 post season more than once.
You are a better man than I. Cannot remember a single game dating back to my first WS in ‘54 that turned my stomach more than that one. Although the 18 inning debacle in Houston’s sorry excuse for a ballpark was a close second!
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
One of you computer gurus help me here. Using Firefox I move around the blog much faster but the “time to post” seems to be longer. Do we need new squirrels in the cage, or what?
By Will
August 23, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
Colin, Me too! Look at that last game at Shea a couple weeks ago, they almost blew a 4 run lead in the 9th. No lead is safe anytime, anywhere. They have to be up at LEAST 4 runs in the late innings for a Braves fan to feel safe about it.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
About the Braves lack of pitching. My problem goes even deeper. It would be one thing if we were not developing but also not drafting pitchers but we draft more pitching at higher rounds than most other teams. We seem to be ok in our drafts of postition players. Francour, Mccann, Laroche, Andruws, Salty. But man either our scouts are lousy and evaluating arms or our Minor League coaches are lousy at developing them because its not like we haven’t been drafting them players to mold.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
Shaun, I am about ready to jump out of my office window unless you can argue me out of it.
One less person on the blog that thinks they are smarter than Schuerholz or other baseball execs.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
beachcomber Oh you just had to remind me of that didn’t you . Just when I was about to go to lunch. Geez talk about exhausting. That’s the only game post season or otherwise where I just wanted it to end regardless of who one. And I bet the players on both teams felt that way too.
By Don Eyemus
August 23, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
Braves are toast. 3 of 5 starting pitchers stink. By the way, is Reyes spanish for Redmond? See ya next year.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
Lew
Can’t say I have heard of him, but rarely go to St. Pete. I’ll ask my son. He’s into the guitar scene.
I guess I looked at Girardi as you said, a motivator. If a guy gets to the big leagues, shouldn’t he be prepared to do the innings? If they were bringing guys up too early, then shouldn’t the GM intercede?
By Eric Gregg
August 23, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
True Braves Fan - I absolutely cannot believe you have watched that farce from the 1997 post season more than once.
UNBELIEVABLE I can’t believe it either.
By Will
August 23, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
Shaun, Thats half the fun of posting! I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone on here who is dumb enough to think they could literally step in and do John S. job better then he does.
By It over Braves Fan
August 23, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
IF any of you look this morning at ESPN NEWS or the score of NL…The Braves games was not there…..ESPN already eliminate the Braves out the competition……IT over Braves Fan…The Braves are 500 team….
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Seems like the roids definitely favor the hitters. All this offensive production and pitching so scarce. What gives?? Maybe time to raise the mound a little. I used to consider an ERA over 3 average, now I’d take that every day of the week. The smaller ballparks in Houston, Philly, Cinci, Milwaukee don’t help either. If pitchers use roids, I wonder what kind of effect it has?
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
TrueBlueBravesFan,
Don’t know how old you are or how long you’ve been following baseball but it’s a lot easier to find and develop hitters than pitchers.
Again, I challenge anyone to name any more than three teams that have developed more than one or two consistently good and healthy starters over the last 10-15 years.
By Colin
August 23, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
At least i am not the only one
By J.D. Phillips
August 23, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
It ain’t over until the fat lady sings. Julia if you eat as many sammiches as you say you do - are you singing yet?
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
It over Braves Fan,
Hmmm….last time I checked (seconds ago) the Braves were at .520. Let’s see…520-.500…that’s .020 points over .500.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
SHAUN
Damn man, the one time I ask you to produce some statistics, you ignore me. You always give ‘em when I don’t need them. What gives? You’re not still sore about the Kia and WOPR digs , are you? Don’t take your toys and go home when I hit the playground. 10:35
By RC
August 23, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this
Why all the questions today about “focusing on the wildcard?” Is there some new rule in baseball that says if we give up on the division race we gain and extra 3 games in the wildcard race? Isn’t the goal either way to win as many as you can, and then see where you are at the end? I don’t see why the team needs to “focus” on anything but winning games, which will help in both the wildcard race and the division race.
By Jim
August 23, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this
Back from 6 weeks in Europe and the Braves have new faces but are in the same gear as when I left. A few random thoughts.
The pitching the last 2 nights has not been good, and it highlights the lack of production from 3-5 throughout the season, but the Braves’ lineup has not scored a run from the 6th inning on against the mediocre Reds’ bullpen when both games were still winnable. The offense has to take its share of the blame too!
Those bloggers suggesting we put Villareal into the rotation must be watching a different game from the one that I occaisionally get to see on TBS. I cringe every time he enters the game!
As part of the Cy Young discussion on yesterday’s blog, I was going to post that Cole Hamels would be the most likely of the candidates to get lit up in September because he has had a history of arm problems in the past and has pitched more innings than ever before. One day later he is on the DL.
If we attribute Chuck James’s recent struggles to a tired arm and look at his stats through July, we would have a 9 game winner with an ERA of about 3.6 — not too bad. If he can return to that kind of form in September, he should provide a boost to the team’s chances of making the playoffs. Another 2-pitch lefty who rarely broke 90 with his fastball that comes to mind just won his 300th game. Give the kid a chance to develop before throwing him to the wolves.
What’s left in the organization after the big trades? My take on the rating of the prospects goes
Position players: 1. B. Jones, 2. Heyward, 3. Lillibridge, 4. Schaffer, 5. Cody Johnson, 6. D. Hernandez
Pitchers: 1. Reyes (because of experience and track record in high minors), 2. Hanson, 3. Rohrbaugh, 4. Locke, 5. Evarts, 6. Devine (he should be as ready as he will ever be by now and that migh be just good enough to fill out the back end of a bullpen). Others to watch — Julio Teheran, Chad Rodgers, Boyer (if he ever gets healthy)
By Will
August 23, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Shaun, Its hard to meet your criteria about other teams developing pitchers. Bottom line, that does not change the fact that the Braves have not been producing any great arms out of the farm system, you combine that with the fact that the front office is handcuffed to pay big bucks to a starting pitcher. That does not bode well.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave,
Sorry. Don’t have any stats on Mazzone vs. McDowell. I mean, it’s pretty clear the Braves pitching started declining some even before Mazzone left—2003 and 2005.
Evaluating pitching coaches are as difficult as evaluating managers. But there are plenty of Braves pitchers who are pitching better than we would reasonably expect, so I don’t think McDowell is doing a bad job.
By Salty
August 23, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Will I’m dumb enough to step into JS’s shoes…plenty of us are. The scary thing is, there are some who think they’re smart enough to do so! :-)
By David O'Brien
August 23, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Can’t wait to get back to engage in provocative discourse with the likes of “It over Braves fan” (an appropriately mangled screen name, if there’s ever been one). Love your post: “IF any of you look this morning at ESPN NEWS or the score of NL. The Braves games was not there�..ESPN already eliminate the Braves out the competition��IT over Braves Fan�The Braves are 500 team.”
Well, if ESPN didn’t have the score, then by all means, nevermind the two-game deficit in the wild-card race — it’s over. Or rather, it over. Well said….
Anyway, just wanted to drop in for a few seconds to say, anyone who hasn’t seen “Bourne Ultimatum,” should do so soon. Terrific action movie, right there with Casino Royale for best of the genre in several years (I guess they’re of the same genre, more or less).
And at the other end of the spectrum, small indie film “Off the Black” starring Nick Nolte as a over-the-hill, drunk, broken-down high-school umpire (yes, the title is from the expression relating to the plate, the strike zone), is also a very good movie, on DVD now.
I forgot who kept asking me if I’d seen “Damages” with Glenn Close, but we finally got around to watching the first three episodes. Outstanding TV. Lives up to the reviews, and then some.
And then there’s the Braves … (cue the Debbie Downer wah, wah, waaaaah music). Folks, this past week has been the turning point. Until this 2-4 stretch vs. the D-Backs and Reds, I really believed the Braves could and would still win the division. Now, gotta say while it’s still possible, it’s becoming, or has become, unlikely.
The wild card, on the other hand, is still wide open. But obviously if they don’t play a lot better than they have in the past week, they’re not gonna win it despite the very mediocre field contending for that fourth NL playoff spot.
And I do think Schuerholz will get a starter here in the next week or so off the scrap heap. Not saying it’ll make the difference, but I think he’ll take a shot at someone.
OK, I’m out. Didn’t mean to interrupt. Gotta go get some passenger foot pegs put on the Harley Street Bob. Gonna be a sweltering ride to Stone Mountain. Later, denizens.
Oh, and great show tonight at Smith’s Olde Bar — Dale Watson, some true “hard country.” With Cigar Store Indians opening.
By Will
August 23, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
RC, Obviously the Atlanta Braves players are focusing on winning games, period. As far as here on the blog, it makes sense to start changing the focus to the wild card because the Braves are not gonna catch the Mets. They are still in the thick of the wild card. I can say the braves are not gonna catch the Mets, Chipper Jones or any other player cannot say that at this point.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this
Will,
I know. Point is everyone is acting like the Braves have done something wrong because they haven’t been able to develop many pitchers, but they haven’t done as poor a job as most other teams. Pitchers are difficult to develop and keep healthy.
By TampaBrave
August 23, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
Shaun
How about an average innings per start by year from 2000 on? Get to work!!
By monty
August 23, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
It seems I struck a nerve comparing Andrew’s Homerun totals and RBI totals to a few of the great hitters of the game and showing how comparable they are to theirs. Such strong reactions towards ME for simply stating the obvious(calling me names) ooh! that hurts! you guys are so much more clever when it comes to dissecting the game. I can learn from you guys,NOT! You obviously didn’t take the time to read the whole blog, but you saw Andrews name mentioned and went ballistic, I agreed that Manny,Big Poopy, and Berkman were “better hitters”, more “clutch” etc. etc.. all I was saying was Andrew had comparible RBI totals which are more important than OBP. and a few more offensive categories mentioned by some of you.Laet time I checked you still win games by driving in runs.Give me a guy who drives in 100plus runs a year even when hurt. What’s ORtiz,RAmiriz,and Berkmans excuse? My point was do you think Astro fans and Red Sox fans are trashing their players saying Damn! Big Poopy has less RBI’s than Andrew JOnes or Are they trashing Berkman saying “he isn’t worth a crap, he can’t even drive in as many runs as Andrew JOnes?” I don’t thinks so, THanks guys for proving my point!
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
LEW, If we can’t re-visit some of you predictions can we analyze some of your IF’s and Maybe’s? It’s some much fun to hear you (and Other) go over the different scenarios that make you think the braves are better than the Mets. And I haven’t even mentioned the emotional boost that Pedro will give the Mets when he returns. I can’t predict how effective he’ll be but that will be irrelevent in comparison to what he’ll do for the overall moral of the pitching staff.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
Shaun
*TrueBlueBravesFan,
Don’t know how old you are or how long you’ve been following baseball but it’s a lot easier to find and develop hitters than pitchers. *
Man talking about sounding like an arrogant sob. Obviously you don’t read earlier posts. I not only watch baseball but I played College ball. No I was not a pitcher but I know what it takes to be one. I also know that its a cr@pshoot with any arm you draft as to whether or not it will develop into a major league starter but the Braves have been consistently using top round picks for the last 10 years on pitching. You would think at this point they could have developed somebody else homegrown besides Chuck James. Mind you I’m not knocking James allthough he seems to lack a toughness that a certain other 300 game lefty had when the going got tight. Carlyle - No spring chicken and besides not a Braves prospect. Cormier - Diamondbacks. In fact the last Homegrown Braves starter to crack the rotation besides James was Horacio Ramirez and wouldn’t really call that a win situation either.
By Stu
August 23, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
The odds of putting together a great pitching staff are much better the way the Braves have gone about it in the past: developing depth at the positions, and trading it for talented pitching, or having the money to sign proven pitchers as free agents.
Most potentially “great” pitchers are signed out of high school; then, with only rare exception, they’ve got to develop, and stay healthy, for 3 or 4 years. And then maybe they’ll turn out to be aces at the major league level, or maybe they’ll become AAAA types - you never really know. The Braves have 4 or 5 potentially good starters in the low minors: if one of them turns into an “ace” we’ll be lucky.
JS put a pretty strong effort into building a great staff: re-signing Smoltz; obtaining and re-signing Hudson; signing Hampton; obtaining and re-signing Wickman; obtaining Soriano and Gonzalez. It hasn’t worked out great mostly due to injuries, but the same people who want us to spend all our offseason money on pitching are the same ones complaining about Hampton’s contract, or about us getting “taken” on Gonzo. It’s always a risk.
As to the Braves current rotation, I think that “our 3-4-5 pitchers stink” has been posted here about a thousand times; however, if you break down our current rotation, I just don’t think it’s true.
Hudson (20-7), Smoltz (14-10), James (13-12), Carlyle (9-6); that’s the team record in games started by these four. 56-35 overall.
James is out for a couple of starts (I think he’s just hitting a wall and will come back fine with some rest). We’re hurting bad at the fifth spot right now. If Hampton had been healthy and at least middle-of-the-road effective, and pushing James and Carlyle down one notch, this would be a very decent starting rotation. And if Gonzo was here, the ‘pen would be much better too.
By Train Wreck Bystander
August 23, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Heh.
If the Braves management doesn’t pick someone up off the heap, they will be berated for not addressing the rotation problems.
If the Braves management picks someone up and they are less than adequate, they will be berated for not acquiring a top-level pitcher - no mater what the realities of the market might dictate.
That’s a tough row to hoe.
However, I still believe in these Atlanta Braves.
By It Over Braves Fan
August 23, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
According with the Chipper Jones web side…He is Already organizing a Hunting trip to his Ranch in Tex for the oct 3, 2007…His guess are Mc, huddy,Frenchy,and his new body Tex. So his mind are in that so of think…not in baseball.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave,
If innings per start have dropped with McDowell, does that say anything about him as a pitching coach? I don’t think it does.
TrueBlueBravesFan,
Again, which teams have developed more than one or two quality pitchers over a 10-15 year stretch? Braves probably haven’t been the best at developing pitchers but are they the worst. They are in the same boat as most teams.
By Shaun
August 23, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
TrueBlueBravesFan,
I think it’s arrogant to think you know more about drafting and developing pitchers than John Schuerholz or the Braves front office or most of the front offices out there.
Either that or you don’t realize that most other teams are in the same boat as the Braves.
By rammerjammer
August 23, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
Can we add this guy to the roster in September? He oughta lighten things up a bit: http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Brad%20Nelson&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=461310
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
August 23, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
The Braves failure to scout , draft , develop and keep the home grown pitching talent has come home to roost. Namely : Kevin Millwood , Jason Marquis , Adam Wainwright , Tom Glavine , Jason Schmidt , Zach Miner etc. etc. etc. etc. Quality starting pitching is the name of the game and the Braves simply don’t have nearly enough of it. By the way , I called this team a wild card contender in spring training , nice to see O’Brien has finally agreed with me in that regard. But , defining the Braves as a wild card contender is no guarantee of anything.
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
I see no one could break away from their non-stop bashing of the Braves, BC, JS, 3-4-5, apple pie and Momhood to answer my Firefox question. Oh well. But, I sure did enjoy my egg-salad sandwich. :-)
By Bob, Journalist
August 23, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Overlord, serious questions … “I feel so sorry for Tim, John, Chipper, Edgar, Tex and some other good players … they deserve better” … what are you saying?
That is … what is it that you think they deserve? … who are the “other good players” for whom you feel sorry? … and, who are the ones for whom you don’t feel sorry?
No intent to be argumentative, I’d just like to know more about your thinking. just curious
I also don’t understand what you mean by “I’m also worried about Chipper’s and Smoltz’ approaches to the performance of the team” either but I’m guessing that if I did, I’d find that we share the same barber.
“Does chipper has a personal problem with Tex’s presence in this team?” … I sincerely hope not but several of my earlier comments were intended to suggest my concern over the possibility that Chipper might be negatively by Tex’s presence … I think my last directional, least pointed reference was “this is a new experience for Chipper too” … it’s a team sport with only so much spotlight available for the sharing … methinks it’s a complex situation … but, Hoss may not cotton to there being a new sheriff in town … say it ain’t so, Joe.
They’re unlikely to win with an “out-slugging the opponent” mentality, but I continue that they’re capable of out scoring them and winning on a consistent basis if they would become and remain properly focused … and do think that, before all is said and done, they will.
Tonight’s a good time to start!
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
Joe Girardi I think Lew mentioned earlier how Joe G wore out his pitching staff in FLA. Also, when does an up-and-coming manager get fired by his team, when there is not something else amiss?
Gotta think we could do better than Joe G whenever Bobby decides to hang em up. I am also not convinced Terry P is the man either. I would like to see him be a bit more authoritative with AJ first.
So, who does that leave. How about our man, Ned Yost in Milwaukee?
Leo must be taking a lot of flak about that 30-3 game, huh!
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
Once again you show you do not read earlier posts before you knee jerk to them. First I said I don’t know if its the Scouts or the coaching. Heck maybe its just plain old snake-bit luck but as I said earlier it would be one thing if the Braves were just putting average priority in drafting pitchers but on the contrary the Braves probably draft a higher percantage on pitchers over position players. And have been doing this since the current regime got here so its not like its just started.
As for teams that have been successful with home grown talent. Colorado(of course they lose them once they can bolt). San Diego (Peavy, Young, Hamilton, Lawrence). Detroit, Minnesota, Seatle, Arizona, San Francisco, Heck even Florida.
I’m just saying the Braves might need to re-evaluate A) The types of pitchers their drafting. B) The people in charge of grooming these guys.
By A-ville Ranger
August 23, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
Bobby said the team would have had a good chance for a 3 run homer if Tex hadn’t been called out on the game ending strike.Who knows the difference in 6-5 and 3-2 ? Nothing for the game but over the course of a season the difference is the one run at 6-5 is a 20% advantage while 3-2 is 50%.Help me out I know you office dwellers understand ratios and proportions.That big ball mentality of playing for the homer works out better when you hold the other team to 3 or 4 most every night.When you have a thin starting corp though that reasoning doesn’t work as well over 162 games.
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
I have not been a negative-nellie and I hope I am not one now, but I fear for the “future” of this Braves team. Yes, the opportunity is there, both for the Division(remote)and Wild Card, but opportunity must be seized; it will not come back and lay itself upon the Braves’ laps. And the team that I have seen play the past couple of nights does not seem capable of going out and seizing it.
By Chop Chop
August 23, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Stu, the stats you posted about the Braves’ record with Huddy, Smoltz, James and Carlyle on the mound speaks volumes about why this team is 6 games out in the division. The Braves are 13 games over .500 in Hudson’s starts and merely 8 games over .500 when the 2-3-4 guys pitch. As you stated, The Braves are 14-10 in Smoltz’s starts. That’s awfully discouraging.
To make this even more discouraging, let’s add those awful fifth starters to the equation. This means that the Braves are 20-7 when Hudson pitches and 46-54 (16 games below .500 for the fifth starters…awesome…) with every other starter. That’s not going to get the job done.
Since none of this has really changed all year, I have no reason to believe it will change in the next 35 games. The Braves will be lucky to make the playoffs with a rotation like this, so let’s hope they find that luck.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
August 23, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
By the way Shaun. As for my Age. I’m old enough to have driven myself to Braves games, Booed the opposing team and felt pretty positive that they heard me. If you have trouble connecting those dots it means I was a driving Braves fan in the Mid-80’s.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
Shaun
Cole Hamels, Josh Johnson, Scott Olsen, Yovani Gallardo, Homer Bailey, Tom Gorzelanny, Ian Snell, Jeff Francis, Chad Billingsley, Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Jered Weaver, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders, Joe Blanton, Felix Hernandez, Justin Verlander, Jeremy Bonderman, Andrew Miller, Francisco Liriano, Joel Zumaya, Fausto Carmona, Dustin Mcgowan, James Shields, Joba Chamberlain, Phillip Hughes, Jon Lester, Jonathon Papelbon.
Well those are a few. Braves haven’t developed anything near that. I could brakwe off some top prospects that have higher ceilings. Yes, the stuff matters. You can tell which pitchers have the ability to be a front of the rotation type pitcher and which can’t. Now, some of thse guys are going to get injured and not stay healthy. Of course. But the Braves haven’t had one in 10 years worth writing home about. NOT ONE! I for one sure hope Rohrbough and Hanson are as good as everyone says they are going to be.
By Wayne in Utah
August 23, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this
Shaun I posted several days ago about the difficulties of drafting, developing and retaining your own pitching talent.
I agree with you that it is extremely difficult to know who is going to excel and who is not. Those that lament the loss of pitchers, when they actually start naming them, they come up with guys who have a small measure of success, but nobody really worth their salt over the long haul (Glavine, Marquis, might be the exception). It would be danged presumptious to think that JS could be smart enough to figure out which 2-3 guys they should have kept, and the to think of the players they would have NOT gotten if they had kept all these supposed “good” pitchers.
They don’t mention the pitchers that JS has picked up along the way also. Guys like Hudson, Smoltz, Maddux, Hampton (injuries aside), etc. There are also many others who were very serviceable throughout the 90’s, that weren’t developed here.
Shaun my friend, you have got it dead right this time.
By Ron
August 23, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this
Well IF JS decides to go after another starter, then it MIGHT be too damn late!!! No doubt he should try to get one, BUT IF he went out and got Silva at the END of July, we would be tied OR in the lead of the Wildcard RIGHT NOW!!! Listen people Silva would have been our PERFECT #4 Starter for us!!! Carlyle has pitched like a #4 or 5 ALL year EXCEPT his Last 2 starts!!! Carlyle would be our #5 if Silva was here!!! And James has pitched Solid this year also, Except for his Last 2 starts!!! Silva WOULD have brought BALANCE to this team!!! And the Twins GM Ryan is NOT a dumbass, he would NOT have wanted the Moon for him!!! He did NOT take hardly nothing for Castillo!!! And Silva is a free agent at the end of the year!!! The most we would have given up is probably Thorman and a descent minor leaguer!!! But I guess JS did not see it the way I do!!! Thats a shame too!!! I am the ONE that said we needed a starter at the deadline!!! Yes I know there was no great starter out there, but Silva would have done wonders for this rotation!!! Most of this blog said in JULY that this rotation is good, we dont need no stinkin starter, Tex is the answer, get him forget about the starter!!! We are good to go!!! Reyes is more than OK in the 5th starter role!!! LOL!!! Thats what more than HALF of you guys said!!! Well It looks like I was right about that and yall were well wrong about that!!! I wish I was wrong, but not the case!!! I said BEFORE we got Tex we might win the Wildcard, and I STILL say that!!! I have NOT given up on the Wildcard!!! Its just funny to me seeing the SAME people who said in July that our Starters are FINE, and NOW screaming and saying that our 3-5 are crap!!! LOL!!! What yall expected Carlyle NOT to have a bumpy road at all, I think he will be fine, but I knew he would hit a tough stretch SOONER than later!!! What Yall thought that Reyes would be the answer, especially after JUST 2 starts!!! LOL!!! Some of yall JUST lost ALOT of credibility when yall said ALL of that!!! LOL!!! And some of yall call Coach a fool because he was SMART enough to realize that we needed pitching NOT more hitting!!! Tex has been Great for us, but IF ONLY JS would have gotten Silva, we might be leading OR tied with the Wildcard!!! Some of yall are gonna say Silva, your crazy for even saying that!!! AM I? What did Weaver do for the Cardinals last year? I rest my case!!! Yall keep mentioning the Damn Cardinals day in and day out, so why not me mention them!!! Silva could have brought Balance, BUT JS did NOT see that!!! Thats a DAMN SHAME!!!
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
Chuck James is a nice addition to a rotation, but let’s be honest, he is not a front of the rotation type starter, and the Braves haven’t produced one from the farm since Kevin Millwood.
I am not knocking the Heyward draft pick, because he is our top prospect right now. He is that good. But the Braves took a potential closer from NC State, a corner outfielder with “light tower power” who is going to strike out 180 times a year, and Jason Heyward, another corner outfielder. I am not knocking the Heyward pick because he is going to be great. High OBP skills with power. But a corner outfielder……
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Shaun its not only jojos bunt, cant recall the exact bunts but im pretty sure in the las 2 months ive seen at least 3, it is clear braves hitter dont have the slightest idea of how to bunt, maybe harris, renteria, woodward, the rest of the position players dont know how. They dont want to bunt “it is a wast of time and an out in their minds”.
If it is not up to bobby to activate reteria, at least it is his decision to put him in the lineup, it is like the situation of the fly in the soup, who cares where the fly came from and when did it got to the soup, the waitress should have detected the problem before putting the bowl on your table, period.
Be honest, how many times have you seen the the tying run, the go ahed run or a run that shortens the lead in half standing on 1B with none or 1 out and it stats there because the braves dont bunt? it happens at least twice a week. I bet it will happen today.
KJ is on the league leaders in 3b, teach the guy to steal, he has shown he has the speed and knows to run the bases. Frenchy has the speed also, when do you see him steel a base…….NEVER. What about Escobar.
Then we have lots of contact hitters, renteria, KJ, Diaz, Chipper even TEX makes a lot of contact….. put the ball in play and use the hit and run. Come on, at least once a week.
Hit and run is as rare in atlanta as a complete game.
The worst thing about this is that you still talk as if you didnt see day in and day out tons of decisions made by cox that leave you scratching your head.
The question about the number of games ive seen——— I dont need to be as old as a mummy and to have seen as many games as VIN SCULLY to know baseball. some 5 years ago, i heard people talking about cox and i didnt believe he was bad, but i happen to have joined the parade as i have learned that he is no goog to this team.
By Anders
August 23, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Lew Well, DOB has joined the ranks of the WC dwellers. It appears only you and Paladin have the division as your singular goal at this point. Fair to say you’re rooting for the Padres over the Mets tonight and for Padres to sweep the Phils this weekend? You risk being about 5 out on both counts with that scenario (spell check) you do realize? Fair points on Girardi btw. I didn’t realize the carnage of the Marlin staff this year. I’m not sure if it was cause and effect but to be fair it merits looking further into.
By ncscoots
August 23, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
somebody email the Braves’ players: several realistic bloggers have declared the season over. Players may now call it in as desired, since no amount of effort will change the outcome.
Oh, wait. Those are the same bloggers that will unlimber the big guns of poster disgust at the players’ lack of fire and desire. Disregard previous email.
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
Hey Mz Carroll How about a new blog? Please, thank you and we love you very much.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
I understand what you are saying. It is very difficult to develop pitchers. But we haven’t. Other teams have. Not all, but some have done a good job. We have not. That is the issue. We have nothing that is even a year away from major league baseball.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
goog = good
stats = stays
spelling.
By Puzzled in Seatle
August 23, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
Would someone give us a encapsulated version of RON’S!!!!!!! recent brainfart. And boy, did he cut one!!!!!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
Someone pointed out that Edgar was going to be placed on the DL, where did you get that info?, cause i see no report on that transaction.
By Efrim
August 23, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
35 games left.
24-11.
It can be done.
By Paladin
August 23, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
New blog is up!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Philly is losing 2-0 to the dodgers in the 7th, hope we capitalize today on that one.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
tigers 0
indians 0
already in the 9th…..
woooowwwwww!!!!!
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
We have a new problem—- if the dodgers beat the phillies, they will tie us in the race for the WC, so if we lose today we will drop to 4th place in WC standings. If we win, we will remain 3rd percentage points behind the phillies (lost column).
By NO CHOP ZONE
August 23, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
one thing has become apparent. The 2006 Mets were not a fluke and they will prove that by clinching the NL East.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this
Dodgers added to their lead with stolen base and then a hit to LF.
See shaun it aint that hard.
Small basic thing, and all this against flash gordon.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Harry Kalas sounds as depressed as you could hear a broadcaster as the phillies are 2 behind and dodgers ready to add to lead.
Thinks dont look any better in philly than they do in atlanta.
By Overlord
August 23, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
runners at 1st and 3rd for LA and noone out and they are trying for hit and run…… they have tried 3 times, WOOOW!!!!!! it is a good idea.
you see shaun
By journalist jimmy smith
August 23, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
girlfriend rumors are confirmed. dob is now blogging that, “we” watched a movie. dob is getting passenger pegs, too. love is in the air. now, how does dob transport anne cox chambers’ walker when riding the bike?
speaking of girlfriends … this journalist used to date a girl with the last name carlisle. spelled much like carlyle, only different. and anyway, this girl had great dexterity which jimmy smith always appreciated.
perhaps buddy carlyle will prove to have a different type dexterity in tonight’s game. dexterity can be a very good thing.
now, if the rumor is true (started by a new blogger today) that chipper is goin’ a huntin’ the first week of october … hmmm….
“We offer two hunts per year personally guided by Atlanta Braves’ third baseman, Chipper Jones. This is a unique opportunity to visit one-on-one with Chipper while hunting genetically superior and professionally game-managed whitetails on some of the most impressive hunting land in the country, here in the heart of Texas’ well-known “Golden Triangle”.
oh, the humanity! dabbling in genetics? could be the reason for the chin hair. could be a clone with better toes. whitetails that talk, “uh”.
and now medical advice for edgar renteria. see if doc can check edgar out before returning again.