AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > July > 31 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USNo question: Trade was good
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Of course the Tex-for-Salty trade was a good one for the Braves. Glad you asked.
And please, don’t give me the “smells like J.D. Drew all over again” line.
(And before we go any further, let me say that if the Braves get Octavio Dotel from Kansas City for Kyle Davies, it will have been arguably the best couple of days of trading in Atlanta Braves history, in terms of impacting a playoff race.)
(Wait, not done with that thought. How can they get Dotel for Davies? It’s only because Dayton Moore, KC GM and former Schuerholz assistant, had such a big hand in developing Davies that he probably believes Davies can still be pitcher they always believed he’d be. Otherwise, Dayton would take one of the better offers he’s received in the past month for Dotel. For the Braves’ sake, lot of denizens hoping Dayton keeps the nostalgiac view of Davies and pulls the trigger on this deal around noon today, or as soon as the Braves can officially offer him Davies, after the Rangers sign off on the Teixeira trade without demanding Davies be included instead of sore-shouldered Matt Harrison.)
(Whew _ that was one helluva run-on sentence and paragraph. Flexing my skills. Yeah, right. Now, back to original blog point about the Salty-for-Tex deal….)
For one very big thing, Mark “Tex” Teixeira is under the Braves’ control at least through 2008. That’s two runs at the playoffs, not one like they got from Drew.
What they do with those two runs at the playoffs will determine how this is viewed by many Monday-morning GMs in the future, but the fact is, the Braves have Teixeira to team with Chipper Jones and the rest of this relatively young lineup for two runs at the playoffs.
And having Teixeira makes those runs a whole lot more realistic and optimistic than not having him.
The second thing is, the Braves could certainly have used Adam Wainwright, the pitcher they gave up in the Drew deal, during these past few years of injuries to key pitchers. He might have made a real difference in Atlanta. (I’d say they could also have used Jason Marquis, but fact of the matter is, Marquis wasn’t going to prosper until he went somewhere else and got a fresh start and a new attitude, which he got in St. Louis … at least for a while.)
With Jarrod Saltalamacchia, the big stud they’re giving up in this trade for Teixeira, the Braves don’t have a spot for him in the near future, unless you saw enough of Salty at first base to conclude that he was the answer there. I did not. While I think he could certainly have been a serviceable and perhaps even good defensive first baseman, the brief stint he got there with the Braves could not have led any reasonable person to believe he was the next Keith Hernandez. He was out of position there.
Salty is a catcher. Probably going to be a very good one for a long time. But he had more value to the Braves as a catcher they could trade to fill the first-base need, than he did as a first baseman trying to fill that need himself during a playoff run. He wasn’t going to get any playing time at first base the rest of the season for a manager who didn’t have the confidence in him to keep running him out there in a division race after the All-Star break.
Besides, as much as some would have you believe this was just some arbitrary decision to yank Salty from the lineup and play old man Franco, fact is Salty hit .228 with two extra-base hits (doubles) and two RBIs in 15 games (15 games with multiple at-bats in each) during July, including 10-for-51 (.196) with 10 strikeouts and three walks in the last 13 of those games.
That’s when the Braves decided it was worth signing Franco, and that’s when Cox started playing Franco every day to see what he had left and to better gauge how desperate it was for the Braves to make a deal for a first baseman.
So they got the best player available on the trade market, and they got a competent lefty reliever, Ron Mahay, as part of the same trade. Two birds with four stones _ Salty, shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus, who’s 18, lefty prospect Matt Harrison and righty prospect Neifi Feliz, who’s 19.
Yes, they gave up a lot of young talent. But folks, for every Braves fan that will how that the Braves mortgaged the future and that Schuerholz and Bobby Cox only care about going out with a flourish in this season and/or next season, there are two Braves fans who would have howled if the Braves didn’t get Teixeira that the team isn’t a small-market team and shouldn’t behave like it by overvaluing its prospects and not trying to win now.
That’s just the way it is. You can’t please everyone, and the Braves don’t try to make decisions to please the most number of folks possible. They’re trying to win now. All teams do in this day and age, at least all teams who run successful operations. This isn’t a build-for-the-future business as much as it is a win-now, and win-in-the-future, too, business.
You have to make very hard decisions that are going to upset a lot of people. The Braves made a big one yesterday. It could blow up in their faces if Salty goes on to become the next Johnny Bench, or just if he’s better over the next 5-6 years than Brian McCann is. And if Elvis becomes The King (of defensive shortstops) for the next decade. Or if Feliz or Harrison becomes a front-line pitcher.
Personally, I was so struck by how remarkably timid Harrison seemed in spring training, that I found it hard to believe he’d become a true staff ace. Just don’t know many pitchers with that kind of personality who are true aces in the majors.
Now, the Feliz kid, from all accounts, has got a ton of potential. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he becomes a very good major league pitcher. But he’s in low-A ball. He’s 19. He’s 3-4 years, minimum, from being a factor.
You can’t assume a kid is going to develop steadily over the next four years and be a major league contributor. You don’t just build a great farm system in order to continually fuel your major league team. You build a farm system so that you can also use some of those players to trade and bring in proven commodities, such as a Teixeira, to fill holes in a playoff race.
This division race is wide open. The Mets (13-13 in July) aren’t world-beaters, and the Braves lineup is now at least as good, if not better, than New York’s. Philly has won nine of 10, but the injuries are stacking up and I don’t think they’re pitching is good enough to hold off the Braves down the stretch.
The Braves might have a better shot at winning the division than they do the wild card, given how many solid teams there are out west and given how the Cubs and D-Backs look like they might win their divisions and relegate the Brewers, Dodgers and Padres to competing for wild-card berths.
But with the division so wide open, Schuerholz just made it possible for the Braves to make a legit run at reclaiming what was theirs for 14 consecutive completed seasons. It’s on the players and Cox now to bring it home.
Tex ain’t driving South, but you get the point here:
“DRIVE SOUTH” by John Hiatt
I didn’t say we wouldn’t hurt anymore
That’s how you learn, you just get burned
But we don’t have to feel like dirt anymore
Though love’s not earned, baby its our turn
We were always looking for true north
With our heads in the clouds, just a little off course
I left the motor running, now if you’re feeling down and out
Come on baby drive South, with the one you love
Come on baby drive South, with the one you love
I’m not talkin’ bout retreatin’ little girl
Gonna take our stand, in this Chevy van
Windows open on the rest of the world
Holdin’ hands, all the way to Dixieland
We’ve been tryin to turn our lives around
Since we were little kids, it’s been wearin’ us down
Don’t turn away now darlin’ let’s fire it up and wind it out
Come on baby drive South, with the one you love
Come on baby drive South, with the one you love
I heard your mama callin’, I think she was just stallin’
Don’t know who she was talkin to, baby me and you
We could go down with a smile on, don’t bother to pack your nylons
Just keep them pretty legs showin’, it gets hot down where were goin’
We were always looking for true north
With our heads in the clouds, just a little off course
I left the motor running, now if you’re feeling down and out’
Come on baby drive, come on baby drive South, come on baby drive South
Come on baby drive South, with the one you love
Come on baby drive South, with the one you love
Comments
By northbeach Scott
July 31, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
Good perspective, DOB. Gotta believe that Liberty Media has been wise not to reveal the payroll budget so that JS can wheel and deal. I think that there may be something in the works to get Tex and Andruw signed before the end of the season. What a shot in the arm that would be for those players and the team. Any perspective at this point to believe that could be managed with Boras in mid-season, even though he typically does not allow his clients to do so?
By Chuck James is solid!! (Formerly Steve-O)
July 31, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
Great trade! Now get Arroyo and Dotel ASAP SON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Joe Fan
July 31, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
DOB,
I take it that with Salty gone that Pena will be called up? Who will be moved to make room for Pena?
By Carolina Gent
July 31, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
DOB, Assuming Pena is called up to back up McCann, who’s going down? And, are there any others being mentioned in a possible deal for Arroyo? I like the Teixeira trade, and will like it better if we can keep him beyond ‘08.
By David-ATL14
July 31, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
Good to hear from you DOB. Nice Spot yesterday on the Mike & Mad Dog Show.
Gave a good accounting of yourself and a nice look into the Front Office machinations. Well Done Indeed!
By Dru
July 31, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
DOB, any news yet on whether Tex will get in for tonight’s game??
By Fred Secunda
July 31, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
Will Tex be in the lineup tonight?
By Herschel Talker
July 31, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
First!
DOB: you the man, as usual!
By Big Easy
July 31, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
So, do we have an estimate as to when the Medical Review for the Teixeira trade will be done, so that JS can pursue other deals? And how much truth is there to the Arroyo rumor? Highly unlikely or is it at least conceivable that we could see him in a Braves uni soon?
By Jason
July 31, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
The additions of Tex and hopefully Dotel could make a huge difference these next two months…but we still need another starting pitcher. Reyes has a ton of talent, but it doesn’t appear he’s ready for a spot in the rotation. DOB, do you have a follow up to your story yesterday that the Braves were pursuing Bronson Arroyo? He would be a great addition if the Braves could pull it off…
By Andy
July 31, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
I know this is pretty much a done deal, but is there anyway that Texas gets scared about the health of Harrison and decides to axe the deal?
By geauxbraves2000
July 31, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
I agree it was a great trade for the Braves. One question though, what is the hold up? Why is this medical review taking so long? While we wait, Dayton Moore may be blown away with a deal for Dotel and pull the trigger. Are JS’s hands completely tied waiting for this trade to be official?
Geaux Braves!!
By John
July 31, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
I could not agree more.
By Mark
July 31, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
Dave, How close are the Braves to acquiring Arroyo? I think another proven starter could go a long way in how far the Braves can go in October.
By Bryan from Kansas (Go KU )
July 31, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
David….
Great stories to break the news….I missed you with Charley Steiner yesterday, I bet it was a great interview as always…
Have you heard anything more on the Bronson Arroyo deal.. like who we would be dealing?
By BravesFanInRockies
July 31, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
Mornin’ DOB,
There are lots of conflicting reports about the Dotel situation, about half saying that there never was a deal or that the teams came close but won’t consummate it.
Any idea how soon before 4 p.m. your time we’ll know?
My reason for asking is, if this trade doesn’t happen, is there likely to be a backup plan not involving an August deal?
Thanks.
By pinkygonzales
July 31, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
DOB, What are you hearing about Arroyo? Any fire there? Or is it just smoke? He would be a huge pick-up, if we could get him.
By Justin
July 31, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this
first?
By Jeff321
July 31, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
I sure hope Yates & Paronto get the boot.
By Yo
July 31, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
Great trade! I can only hope that Cox now wises up and puts Tex in the 4 hole where he belongs. This team is not going to contend with a .215 hitter batting cleanup. I know Cox has an allegiance to Andruw but it’s time to think about making the playoffs. Andruw has made his bed and now he must lie in it. I have already heard speculation that Cox wants to put Tex in the 5th spot in order for Andruw to get better pitches. One can only hope this does not happen. Moves like this have robbed us of multiple titles in the past and I hope this time around will not be the same.
By Arkansas Braves fan
July 31, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
Dob, Mlb trade rumors is saying Kenny Williams is discussing Vasquez and Garland. Is their any chance the braves get in on eithier of the two. Also, is their any new news on Dotel or Arroyo. Thanks, Go Braves!
By Ron H
July 31, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
I’d like to see Dotel added, but we still need a serviceable No. 3 or 4 starter…
I’m watching the game tonight to see TEX in action…
Gooo braves!
By NO CHOP ZONE
July 31, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
All of us here at Mets nation have decided to give up on the season now that the braves have won the division by trading for Tex. We’ll just give up that 4.5 game lead and wait for next season.
By bryan
July 31, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
So what are the roster moves now? Can we risk Thorman being sent down? Is he a trade candidate? I really like Julio off the bench and on the field … i would like to know what he has to say about Tex … i would like to know what Tex has to say about Tex.
By JB
July 31, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
Any chance we get both Dotel and Arroyo ?
By JordanPTC
July 31, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
AWESOME! hope we land Dotel and let DM and the Royals try and figure out Davies.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
July 31, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
DOB, a couple of questions. 1) Will Tex be in the lineup tonight. I would assume he is already on his way to Atlanta since the deal is going to go through. Its just a matter of whom that fourth pitcher will be. 2) Are the Braves going after a starter and how aggressively are they going after one?
By GTA
July 31, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
first?
By Rome Fan
July 31, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
Not to be too picky, but Feliz is not in Low-A ball….he’s in Danville, which is Rookie League, below Low-A Rome and High-A Myrtle Beach. Supposedly has a lot of potential, though, so we’ll see….
By Tim
July 31, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
DOB I totally agree. Braves have to win now. We just don’t know how much longer we are gonna have Chipper and Smoltz around and next year will probably be Cox’s final year. This is the time to do it.
By batcork
July 31, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
OK, maybe not JD Drew 2.0, but squarely in between Drew (1 yr rental) and Sheff (2 yr rental). Both of whom helped the Braves to the playoffs but not a ring. I expect Tex will be chapter 3 of this same saga. Playoffs, yes. Ring, no. Have we been reduced to just hoping for the playoffs, and being satisfied with something short of a world title? Maybe the next few hours will tell.
By Ron H
July 31, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
It’s a given Pena has to come up, and somebody has to go down…my guess is that THORMAN is gone.
If we get Dotel or Arroyo, and with the recent addition of Mahay, who else is gone?
Tough decisions to make.
Good luck and gooo braves!
By Jt
July 31, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
Perfectly said, DOB. Schuerholz has been able to find a great balance between developing young players for the Braves roster and using them as trade bait for proven talent. That is why they have been in the post season hunt every year for the past 15 (had he been able to pull off a deal last year, they might would have competed better last year). Of the 4 players, only Salty is close to a sure thing. Texeria is a proven hitter and the chances of signing him to an extension before free agency (as per Tim Hudson) is better than signing AJ as a free agent. It is no secret that JS does not like to deal with Boras. But if Texeria runs his own life, he may be inclined to sign early so that he can play with a perennial contender. AND Mahay was critical to the deal. Sure, CJ Wilson would have been better, but it wasn’t going to happen. Mahay has been very effective this year and we all know how badly the Braves need an effective lefty reliever. As a long time Braves fan, I see NO downside to the trade. We are now in the race.
By AJ GREEN WEARS #1
July 31, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Great article.Where is TEX right now? Still in Texas or on his way to Atlanta? This deal needs signed off on so we can get him suited up!
By LT (double A blogger)
July 31, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
Couldn’t agree any more on all points. Even in Tex is gone after 08, I can’t state this is a bad trade because it makes sense this season and next season. Worry about 09 in 08 not 07.
I am not sold on letting Davies go. Will Dotel be brought in to replace Wicky or will he be setting up Wicky. If he is replacing Wicky, I’d be more apt to agree with that trade.
By OnDeckBatta10
July 31, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
DOB Great read.. any chance we make another big move today for a starter? Maybe Arroyo and I’m hearing Carlos Silva (Ick)
By Train Wreck Bystander
July 31, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
This Dotel trade worries me - he turns up on many lists of overrated players. Not that I mind giving up Davies - but I question whether Dotel is going to be that great an acquisition.
Looking forward to tonight’s game.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
July 31, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
DOB, how will the roster be restructured? I assume B. Pena will be called up to be the backup catcher. If Dotel is acquired, I would assume Ascaino goes back down. But, what do the Braves do with Thorman? If they trade for a starter and Thorman isn’t part of the deal, who goes? Will Cox only keep six relievers so he can have six bench players or will he stay with seven relievers? If Cox decides to go with six relievrs, who are the two other relievers that get the axe?
By Lew
July 31, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
NoBrainZone-That may be the only smart thing you’ve ever done. Mets are going down.
By Ron H
July 31, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
No Chop, we know the Mets aren’t laying down their bats. in fact, you guys just traded for a gold glover…
i’d say that the lineups are now about equal and it is going to come down to pitching…
i think it’s going to come down to you or us. the phillies are hot right now, but i suspect they’re going to fade when they go against somebody good.
this division will be won by the Braves or Mets, and it will come down to the final week, possibly even the final series of the season…
we’re fighting tooth and nail the whole way there…
goooo braves!!!
By Brian Dudley
July 31, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
I agree. The Braves traded proven for potential. Granted, they did give up a lot of potential, but they got back a lot of proven. I remember that it seemed that they gave up a lot to get McGriff years back, but I don’t remember any of those guys turning out to be world beaters. I think Keith Mitchell and Melvin Nieves were part of that trade, but I can’t remember. The fact that I can’t remember probably says something. I would have loved to have traded some “magic” beans to Texas for Teixeira and Mahay, but GMs seem to be funny about wanting value for value. Anyway, if nothing else the trade seems to signal that the Braves will be once again making bold moves to improve the team, which they seem to have shied away from in recent years. Thankfully, they are under new management.
By Mr. David
July 31, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
DOB I’m stoked about the trade and will be there tailgating Sat. Any suggestions for a Tex related ipod playlist? BTW I’ve got 1000 cd’s to choose from lol!
By NCBravesFan
July 31, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe people think that the Braves should not have taken this chance by trading for Tex. Our odds are significantly improved to make the playoffs with this shot in the arm in the offense.
The key down the stretch will be Smoltz’s shoulder. If it holds up, we have three good starters, which is all you really need in a playoff scenario.
A bullpen arm or two today (Dotel) would help slam the door at the end of the games.
If the above plays out, ATL has to be a favorite to reach the Series this year in a pathetic NL.
If Salty and Franco would have platooned at first, we’d likely have finished 3rd or 4th in the division. You don’t stick a kid at an unfamiliar position in a pennant race and ask him to perform.
By Another Arkansas Braves Fan
July 31, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
Will Tex be in the lineup tonight??? Thanks DOB!
By Luther
July 31, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
DOB- Enjoyed listening to you on 680 this morning. Ecspecially your answer to Perry’s idiotic assesment that “if the Braves don’t win the World Series this is a bad move.” I love how he backed off his position, “thats what the fans will say.” Typical Mets fan, go home and put on your Yankees hat now.
By KC
July 31, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
Ron H: It’s not certain that Tex will be in the lineup tonight since the deal still isn’t official.
By ChampDawg
July 31, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
Making the playoffs and then doing well once you’re in depends more on pitching than hitting. Until the Braves do something about the pitching, Tex ain’t the answer. Smoltz.. iffy due to the shoulder, Huddy.. good most of the time, James-Reyes, etc. I wouldn’t give a plug nickel for.
By knowitall
July 31, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
RIJIB, I believe Ascaino will have to be sent down to make room for Mahay.
By Yars
July 31, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
The offense looks great now, especially if Andruw can up his average, & stop hitting into double plays. The starting rotation still needs to be tweaked. After Smoltz & Hudson, it looks bad. Jo Jo isn’t ready for the show. He should still be in Richmond. Carlyle is a journey man pitcher. James is inconsistent & throws nothing but junk. We can talk playoffs all we want, but until the starting rotation is addressed, what’s the point? This Atlanta team won’t make the playoffs if a decent starting pitcher isn’t added soon.
By Big Kev
July 31, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Cox will carry seven relievers. Past history dictates bobby will overload the pen instead of more bench guys.
Pena is definitely coming back up and gives another good pinch hitter. I would have personally rather kept him up in spring training than woodward.
I think that Thorman has to be part of any deal to get Arroyo, who I think would be an outstanding pick up. And my god is davies for Dotel a sick JS dream or what. If this all goes through, JS has proven he is the greatest GM of all time.
By Roll Tide
July 31, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
ESPN Buster Olney reporting that the Dodgers have traded Wilson Betemit to the Yankees for Scott Proctor. Olney believe Betemit could be a starter for the Yanks next year if Arod leaves.
By Wayne in Utah
July 31, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
RJITB I suspect you will have to wait until around game time, or at least until any/all deals are finalized. There are so many ways this thing can go. Who knows what will happen.
I would think that Thorman will be dealt, even if only for a minor league prospect, if he is not included in some other deal for a starter. I think that a guy like JS has a few GM’s he is tighter with, and they do that scratch each others backs sort of thing when in a tight spot.
Just a guess.
By BG
July 31, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Consider the stats on 3 relief pitchers:
A. 24 games, 23 IP, 2-1 record, 3.91 ERA, 11 saves in 14 opportunities, 29 K, 11 BB, WHIP = 1.52, Opponents’ BA. = .264, Opp’s Slg Pct. = .428, GO/AO = 1.28
B. 40 games, 40 IP, 3-1, 3.57 ERA, not a closer, 14 K, 19 BB, WHIP = 1.64, Opp’s BA = .307, Opp’s Slg. Pct. = .386, GO/AO = 1.36
C. 50 games, 44 IP, 2-3, 5.28 ERA, not a closer, 44 K, 24 BB, WHIP = 1.49, Opp’s BA = .247, Opp’s Slg. Pct. = .347, GO/AO = 0.84
A and B seem better than C but C has some strong points — good K’s per IP, low BA & SLG against.
A is Dotel, B is Paronto, and C is Yates. To get Dotel, the Braves would need to clear a spot. The likely candidates are Paronto and Yates. Other than in May when he came back from the DL, Paronto has pitched very well. So, that means Yates would need to be released (or sent to the DL).
If Yates could recapture his pre-July form, I don’t think Dotel is much of an upgrade. This might be a big “if”. Of course, if Dotel could pitch like he did in 2002 & 2003, then it would be great to get him.
Overall, I’m not convinced that getting Dotel is a top priority. Of course, one of the early rumors was Thorman for Dotel….now that would be a coup for the Braves. Please Dayton…you owe us one after the Braves giving your starting SS for the year. (Tony Pena has played fairly well for KC.)
By CMC
July 31, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Great Post today. In the past two weeks, I have become more convinced that such a move was needed for this team, future be damned. The cupboard is still plentiful with future prospects. Two playoff runs with Tex is a nice thought.
Dealing future talent is a tough call. Knowing JS the way you do, is it possible that he considers a young talent “untouchable” at some point in time? Or does a seasoned GM consider “anyone for sale” with the right offer?
I would be happy to see further deals made as long as we retain the services of Escobar, Brandon Jones and one of Hansen/Reyes. Escobar is legit and can play one of three infield positions down the road. Jones is a 5-tool outfielder that is destined to replace Andruw in the lineup next year or the year thereafter. It would be great to hold onto a pitching prospect or two once we see Smoltz and Hudson exit.
With this being said, do you consider any of the Braves young guys “untouchable” at this point?
Finally, the Hiatt tune “Down South” was re-released by a female country singer back in the 1990’s. Care to guess the name?
By don
July 31, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
O’Brien is the ultimate homer. The giddiness is getting out of hand.
Of course, he will have plenty of time to come to his senses when the season ends abruptly and the playoffs begin without the Braves.
You people would have been great in 1929 when the stock market crashed.
By kdbanks
July 31, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
I, for one, hope the Davies deal goes through and that he can reclaim himself in K.C., much like Jason Marquis did in St. Louis.
By Yars
July 31, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
Man, Kyle Davies was given every opportunity to prove he is a solid MLB starting pitcher. He failed for Atlanta. We lost patience with him. Maybe a new environment will be good for him. It worked for Marquis. Watching Davies pitch gave me a headache. That one game I believe against the Dodgers where he couldn’t hold a 6 run lead did it for me.
By Braves Fan 79
July 31, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
I think Davies has the potential to be a REALLY good pitcher…but hes probably still a year or 2 away and i think hes worth trading if we can get Dotel.
Im glad we hung onto Escobar…man what our record would be if we had him out of spring training instead of woodcrap or orr. da Braves are BACK!! As long as Smoltz is healthy enough to give us a solid 6 or 7 innings in the playoffs i look for this team to go far!
By Don
July 31, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
I hate to see the Braves lose Salty and Andrus but they were both at positions of strength and there’s a gaping hole at first, so I think this is a trade the Braves had to make. Might as well try to do something while Smoltz and Chipper are still around and productive and while the National League stinks. If Liberty doesn’t increase the budget, the Braves aren’t likely to be regular contenders long-term anyway.
However, I’m not going to throw too many bouquets in the direction of Schuerholz after he inexplicably threw away $5+ million in the offseason on 4 stiffs - Redman, Wilson, Woodward, and an injured Sturtze (who the Braves must think won’t pitch this year given the pursuit of Dotel). Has any GM in the history of baseball ever had 4 worse free agent signings in one offseason?
Hopefully with this trade we’ve finally seen the last of Chris Woodward. Thank God we’ve at least seen the last of him starting at first base.
By BamaBrave
July 31, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Roger all that, DOB! These next two months - hopefully these next three months - will be as exciting as any for Braves fans in the last 16 years. How refreshing to actually be involved in these developments, instead of watching from the sidelines…
By dadgum
July 31, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
All the players in this trade are just bit players except of course for Tex and Salty. That is all this trade is really about anyway. You look at the short term power impact to a team and the Braves just steamrolled the Rangers. Nothing against Salty however.
The Braves just simply won the short term value. The pitchers acquired trust me amount to nothing in the short term. Can’t see any impact to this team. As I said prior I really have a hard time putting any faith in relief pitchers. They look great one outing then bad the next. i.e. what has happened to the Soriano, Wickman, Gonsalez triumvirate. Things happen. Glad to get Mahay but not hanging any hopes on him. Ditto Dotel if we get him. He might be better than Davies in the stats but again not getting excited one bit. The Braves are doing what they have to do to win now and that is the right move. Agreed with DOB that top prospects are sometimes groomed to be dealt if it will acquire the veteran missing link. The Braves have been weak at 1st for a long time (including LaRouche). I can’t help but see similarities to the McGriff trade back in I think ‘93 but let’s hope without the fire.
Again with the exception of Tex And Salty nobody will remember any of the others traded after ‘08. The real real value of this trade long term will be if the BRaves can sign Tex to a multi year deal after this year. Wrap him up where he wants to play the most. Say through 2011 at 13-14 mil per. Then say goodby to Andruw. If they can sign Tex then they will have won both the short and long term value of this trade at least prior to the on field performance which of course is the future analysis of all trades. Go get ‘em Tex. Please.
By Big Kev
July 31, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
if proctor is headed to LA, then that signals to me that Dotel is ATL bound, since LA was the other in the Dotel race.
By TommyP
July 31, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
Great time of year to be a baseball fan. No other sport had a trade deadline like baseball. Beautiful.
It appears when Bobby tires of a player, he’s generally gone. Davies appears to be that guy so there’s no doubt they’ll do the Davies for Dotel deal.
Davies seems pretty solid from the windup but is horrible from the stretch.
I think the Braves are giving up a little more than Teixeira is worth but I believe that’s because Schuerholz/Cox are at the end of a long, great run together. They won’t be around when these prospects are reaching the majors (aside from Salty).
I’m very glad that we aren’t dealing Yunel or Renteria. We need both for this run.
Yunel can be our super-utility guy that is so needed in a Braves infield. Chipper is going to be out some (that’s a given) so you HAVE to have someone at 3rd but Escobar can also spell Renteria at short and Kelly at 2B.
I’d love to see Andruw in the 6th hole.
By NO CHOP ZONE
July 31, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
I’ll remember those words LEW-SER. You’ve predicted failure for the Mets in the past and still they lead the division……Pssst Pedro is coming.
By Chase
July 31, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Why does all of the MEDIA Outlets and (some)FANS just ASSUME the BRAVES can’t RE-SIGN….BOTH ANDRUW and TEX?
The FACT is that we don’t know!
I would argue that this move could signal that LIBERTY MEDIA may have told JS that the PAYROLL will be INCREASING
Also don’t forget…After next year, HAMPTON’S big contract will be gone (he’s making Andruw’s money)
So….Knowing that that contract is going to be gone and so will WICKMAN’S 6 mil,…THAT IS 20 Million FREED UP!
* SO…It would only take a small Payroll Increase to keep BOTH Andruw and Tex (maybe 7-10 million more)*
And as DOB has reported, ANDRUW really wants to stay….
I would not be surprised to see us KEEP BOTH ANDRUW and TEX
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 31, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this
Page hit…cha-ching Page hit…cha-ching Page hit…cha-ching Page hit…cha-ching Page hit…cha-ching Page hit…cha-ching. I don’t know if all this buzz is Braves Fans or the sound of the AJC’s servers on the brink of a chaotic explosion. What a great time to be a Braves Fan!! I watched “the hit and the slide” at Fulton County Stadium on YouTube over and over for thirty minutes lastnight. Makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck every time.
“They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream….”—Skip
By john
July 31, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
Was there any cash considerations in the trade. If not, makes me wonder how much Liberty is raising the payroll, and how much Hampton’s insurance covered his contract.
By bravesfan
July 31, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB welcome back some questions for you 1)Will Tex be in the lineup tonight? 2)When will the trade be finalized? 3)What are the chances that we get Dotel or a starter?
By Chuck James is solid!! (Formerly Steve-O)
July 31, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
Yars,
You are clearly unaware that Chuck James is solid!!!!!!
By Lew
July 31, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
Y’all-One out of five posts so far on this blog are asking DOB either if A.Texiera will be in the lineup tonight, or B. Who will be moved when the deals are done. Uh, Don’t you think maybe that you’ll get the answers when A. DOB actually has the answer to give you and B. When the deals that this information would predicated on were done deals? Give the guy a break. When was the last time the Braves announced roster moves until the last minute? He doesn’t know either. In the past two days he has flown on a red eye flight from the Arizona, done at the very least four interviews for radio and has been on the phones for the better part of a week tryng to get any clue whatsoever. I’m certain he doesn’t need to be prompted by 1/5 of all the posters. You’ll learn what he knows when he knows it-Just like always.
By SSI Fan
July 31, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
DOB
Off topic, but have the Braves signed their first draft pick? If not, what is the deadline for signing him?
By Buck Naked
July 31, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
Hey… not to nit-pick, but just who was the Player To Be Named Later obtained for Ryan Langerhans? Did I miss something? Does Homeboy keep calling, and the Beane says, “Later..” Was there actually a player whose name is “Later”? Did he start out with another name, and they named him “Later”? Maybe that’s all they had to do, was name a player “Later” without actually trading him. (When he leaves the park, his teammates say, “See ya Later!”) I get really confused with all the rules. My head hurts.
By Ron Roberts
July 31, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Joe Fan… good question about Pena. Gotta have that backup catcher in the clubhouse tonight. Jeff321… gotta disagree with ya, man. Yates and Paronto, when healthy and well-rested, are damn-good and young bullpen arms. Getting Mahay, and hopefully Dotel, too, will only make those guys better. How scary should that be for the Philthies and Mutts?
I, too, wonder what Teixeira’s travel status is, with this “medical review” still holding everybody up.
And, No Chop Zone, I already know how we make up at least three of those games we’re behind you in. Do you?
We played 9 games the first half of the season against your Mutts, and went 6-3. We have 9 games remaining… so say we go, oh, I don’t know, 6-3 in those games as well, with a much improved Braves’ squad versus your Castillo-enhanced (chuckles) team.
There. Three games made up. Start sweating buddy.
By William
July 31, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Dave,
That was a great post. Tons of REAL info and not a bunch of baseball BS.
But slow down, take a nap and stay off the caffeine and coffee. You are wired baby.
Thanks!
By BigD
July 31, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Will Tex be in the line-up tonight?
By Austin
July 31, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
I beleive the Braves should go after Farnsworth. Yes, Farnsworth. Al though his ERA is 4.57 this year, he was 10/10 in save oppurtunities with a 1.98 ERA with the Brvaes. Now that Proctor was traded to LAD, I doubt Farnsworth will be moved, but I beleive he could have been easily aqquired.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
For the love of all that is sacred, when is this deal going to be finalized?
Is JS in negotiations with other teams regarding other trades? Is the fact that the Rangers’ deal not finalized hamstringing JS?
Regards,
Jason
By Shaun
July 31, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I think one important fact that gets overlooked by those who don’t like the trade is the offensive side of Salty playing first base.
If Salty stayed he would have had to become the first baseman eventually. Even if he became an adequate or good defensive first basemen his value would have gone down offensively because it’s much easier to find first basemen who can hit than catchers who can hit.
The AVERAGE major league first baseman has hit .275/.356/.458 this season. A player does that as a catcher and he’s one of the most valuable players in the game.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 31, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
Wilson Betemit for Scott Proctor. How many times did we hear that proposal last summer when the Braves were looking for relief help?
By Austin
July 31, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
Thank you Lew, If DOB had the answers he would have told u sby now!!!
By Joe Schmoe
July 31, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
SSI Fan…
Neither Heyward or Fields(one of the second rounders and a Boras client) have signed. The deadline is August 15 and I think it’s a pretty safe bet that Heyward will sign around then…
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
For the record, my questions weren’t directed at DOB…sort of venting my anxiety out loud…
Regards,
Jason
By DAP
July 31, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
hopefully tex is on his way or in atlanta already so that he can play tonight whenever the trade goes through. hurry up, texas!!!
i think the linup should look like this tonight.
(1) kelly johnson 2b (2) Edgar SS (3) Chipper 3b (4) Tex 1b (5) andruw CF (6) Mccann C (7) Frenchy RF (8) harriis LF
dang that a good lineup! andruw has been playing well enough to bat cleanup i think, but having two power switch hitters back to back will be great in late situations. and has been hitting well and should hit 5th, and Mccann should always seperate frenchy and Andruw in my opinion.
By Chase
July 31, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
The METS have other issues right now, they better worry about BELTRAN and not whatever PEDRO is doing
For anyone who hasn’t seen this….
From the METS’ website:
NEW YORK — *For Carlos Beltran, the disabled list may have just bridged the gap from possibility to probability. An MRI taken Sunday morning on Beltran’s strained left oblique revealed small amounts of fluid, signaling an abdominal tear.
The Mets will continue to monitor Beltran’s situation before their next game on Tuesday, at which point they could place their center fielder on the DL.
“I feel sore, I feel tight, I can’t swing, I can’t run,” Beltran said. “That’s the way I feel, so I’m not able to play.”*
Psst…Hey MUTS…we’re sprinting behind you!!!!!!!!
By Marty
July 31, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
It’s amazing to me that after winning the division ONCE — immediately following fifteen straight years of failure — Mets fans are so sure that they’ve got it all figured out. Go on and stay cocky…it may be this year, and it may not be ‘til next year, but you’re not going to stay on top for long.
By David-ATL14
July 31, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
Pena will not be in the clubhouse tonight, he is currently catching for the Richmond Braves, in the lovely berg of Toledo Ohio.
Probably have Corky Miller on standby in an ATL hotel.
By Lew
July 31, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
NoBrainZone-Yeah right. Put all your eggs in the basket carried by an aging pitcher, a mere shadow of his former great self before the injuries, who just had rotator cuff surgery (not to mention chronic toe problems). Do you realize how pitiful that is? No, I guess not. You don’t have the brainpower to analyze anything that finely. Have they even let him start pitching any more than once every ten days yet? Keep convincing yourself that over the hill Pedro is your saviour and that the 4 1/2 game lead is insurmountable. Your delusional outlook needs all the help it can get, Mosquito Boy. Hey, I’ve got to give Omar His props, though. Picking up Castillo to replace Valentin was a good move-They may actually have upgraded. Won’t offset old pee in his pants over a knee buckling curve Beltran’s loss though, will it? Oh yeah, I forgot-I should be worried. Moises Alou is back-For just how long until he breaks down yet again? Dream On Little NoBrainZone, there will be crying in your elementary school by the end of August. The Mets are going down. You should be glad, though. All those injuries to the Phillies may just save the Mets from that third place finish I predicted. Oh, BTW, NO BrainZone-just where are all those deals the Mets were going to pull off with all of that money they supposedly have? Been wondering about that for some time now.
By JasonInMaine
July 31, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
This is from Mark Bowman over at MLB.com:
“Once the Mark Teixeira deal is finalized, GM John Schuerholz will turn his focus toward improving his pitching staff. If he’s willing to part with Kyle Davies, there’s a chance he could land Royals closer Octavio Dotel. With one NL scout saying the Braves are still in discussions with the White Sox, there’s a chance Schuerholz could land Jon Garland or Javier Vazquez. Although Bronson Arroyo is on the radar, the Braves may not have the necessary pieces to add him to their rotation. — Mark Bowman”
Regards,
Jason
By Austin
July 31, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
My Lineup
Against RHP 1.KJ 2.Edgar 3.Chipper 4.Tex 5.Andruw 6.McCann 7.Frenchy 8.Willie
Against LHP 1.Escobar 2.Edgar 3.Chipper 4.Tex 5. Andruw 6.Frenchy 7.Diaz 8.McCann
By Mike in 'fretta
July 31, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
A lot of people seem worried that all this trading will deplete our minor leagues of talent and will leave the cupboard bare…but does that really matter?
The Braves are a young team and have a history of drafting well. They will replenish the minors because they are great at recognizing young talent.
Also, I have to believe that if they don’t trade Escobar by the deadline (and I hope they don’t) then they are grooming him to take over SS next year. I don’t think it is a stretch to say that this is Edgar’s last season with the Braves. The Braves will probably trade him because of his salary and because with Escobar they have a very talented and cheap replacement.
The only area I have concern for the future of the Braves is in Starting Pitching. It has been way too long since we have developed a dependable top of the rotation starter.
By Rick
July 31, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Dave,
Bringing Fred McGrif had a bigger impact than these trades. The Braves went on fire after the trade. (So did the stadium)
I rather have Arroyo than Dotel.
By NCBravesFan
July 31, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Beltran? I thought Beltran was still standing at home plate waiting for the Adam Wainwright curve. ;-)
By Salty
July 31, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Lew…you beat me to it. I hate reading through all the ‘bloga vu’….over and over, ad nauseum! The Braves/MIB blog wouldn’t even exist if DO’B didn’t have the same passion as we fans, so…he is as vitally interested in the same questions we all have, wants the answers ASAP, and will let us know just as quickly.
Chase…you’re rubbing off on me…and I skipped the caffeine altogether! :-)
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 31, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
DOB,
After all these page hits, your next blog lyrics should be Pink Floyd—Money.
“I’m alright, Jack. Keep your hands off of my stack.”
By RIP SaltyWoody
July 31, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Alas, my name just doesn’t make sense anymore, assuming the trade goes through. But, heck, I’ll trade my alias for that big, switch-hitting, smooth-fielding corner infielder any day.
Nice blog, DOB. Totally agree. The Braves just more or less solidified a chance to make a run at the playoffs for the next two years. And with all the ties between Tex and Georgia Tech/Atlanta, and with a lot of money freeing up next year because of Andruw/Wickman/Etc. coming off the books, I sure hope we can resign Texeira.
QUESTION FOR THE DENIZENS A lot of you have been saying that you still think the team doesn’t make the playoffs without adding a starter. Does Dotel count almost as much?
The reason I ask is this: if you add Dotel to the bullpen mix, it is instantly upgraded to a VERY strong ‘pen, particularly considering the addition of Mahay. That means that you have Soriano, Yates, Moylan, and Dotel who are capable of pitching in the 7th and 8th and coming in in the 9th if there is a particularly tought situation. As we’ve all decided, Wickman’s great coming in with a clean slate but terrible coming in to a pressure situation. Now you have four guys all capable of coming in and being downright nasty, getting us out of jams. Also, we finally have a guy that can get lefties out consistently (at least hopefully), which we haven’t had in quite some time since Gonzo went down.
As I see it, this makes up for adding a 3/4/5 starter.
How so?
Our 3/4/5 guys have proven they can go 5 or 6 strong innings. Jo Jo can throw 5 strong no problem, we all know Chuckie can do that, and Carlyle’s been proving that he can even go further than that at times. They start to get into trouble when they are asked to go longer than that…mostly to try to save wear and tear on the bullpen.
But if you now have a bullpen that looks like this: Soriano(1 nasty inning, maybe 2 solid), Moylan (1 or 2 innings), Oscar (as many as you need), Yates (1 maybe 2), Dotel (1 strong inning), Paronto (1 maybe 2), Wickman (1, and only if it’s his to begin), Mahay (1 inning…and any outs needed against lefties), all of a suddent that really rounds things into shape.
My guess is the reason Yates/Wiki/Soriano have been hittable lately is that they’ve been taxed recently. It was inevitable while Jo Jo finds adjusts to the majors and Buddy/Chuckie work to find their grooves.
By bringing in Dotel, you take a TON of pressure off the big late inning guys…Soriano gets more rest, Yates doesn’t have as big shoes to fill, we have an alternative to Wickman, Moylan can pitch early in the game if need be.
In turn, this also takes the weight off the 3/4/5 starters’ backs because they know that going 5 strong will be much more acceptable now than it was a week ago. It takes the weight off of Huddie and Smoltz because they don’t feel the need to try to pitch a complete game every time out. It takes the weight off Bobby’s mind because he knows he has 5 or 6 VERY competent relievers to turn to if need be.
As I see it, our rotation is just fine if we add Dotel to the mix…and our bullpen returns to being lights out.
This is also not to mention the fact that, and sorry if I’m beating a dead Hoss here (pun intended), WE JUST ADDED BIG TEX
That’s got to mean a few more runs a game here and there, further relieving pressure on the startes AND the pen. It also means Chipper gets more pitches to hit in front of TEX, a lot of the pressure on Andruw to perform is relieved, and means that 1-8, there is not an easy out in our entire lineup.
Furthermore, it means we can now bring Julio off the bench…a situation he was meant to be in, not starting every game. It means, on any given day, we have two of these four guys available to pinch hit, too: Kelly/Willie/Diaz/Escobar.
THAT, my friends, is a PLAYOFF CONTENDER
Would love to hear what everyone thinks. But, I think Tex could definitely get us over the hump if everything else stays as is (Smoltz/Chipper stay healthy, everyone else continues to perform). And I think adding someone like Dotel puts us in the playoffs for sure.
By bravesfan
July 31, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
On ESPN First Take they said Dotel is coming to Atlanta, once the Tex trade is done, for more than likely Kyle Davies
By KC
July 31, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
DAP: I’ll disagree with you only slightly. I think Andruw should be hitting 7th. And against a righty (and ONLY against a righty), I’d bat Harris leadoff.
1-Harris (L)
2-Renteria (R)
3-Chipper (S)
4-Tex (S)
5-Francoeur (R)
6-McCann (L)
7-Andruw (R)
8-Johnson (L)
Against a lefty, I’d bat Escobar leadoff… so in short, I like what BC’s doing there. KJ doesn’t deserve to hit 8th, but in the words of Clint Eastwood in “Unforgiven”… Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.
By DAP
July 31, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
wow i just watched sid’s slide a couple of times on you tube, and i have goosbumps all over. that was an amazing year.
ya’ll go to youtube and search for sid bream and youll see it. does any body else thing that bream resmbles francour a little when they show him close up?
By Roll Tide
July 31, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
Has anyone seen the stats for Tanyon Sturtze this year? From milb.com he is 0-5 with an ERA of 11.05 and hitters are batting .375 against him. I do not want to see him in the bullpen anytime soon.
By DAP
July 31, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
this has been the longest off-day ever! i cant wait till tonight!
By Lew
July 31, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
SSI Fan-If I’m not mistaken, their first round pick was signed right after the draft-on the same day.
By Salty
July 31, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
In expectations of a trade being finalized, would the players involved already have travelled to their new cities, just in case?
By northbeach Scott
July 31, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
SSI I believe the deadline for signing 2007 amateur draft picks is 8/15/07 and that the Braves have not signed their top pick out of Henry Cty High.
Relax everyone, just because we do not know what is going on does not mean that JS is not moving forward. I imagine Tex is already in Atlanta selecting his uniform number and meeting his teammates.
See you at the Ted!
By BravesFanInRockies
July 31, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly,
RE: Proctor/Wilson
Right on, man. The main diff this year is that Torre has had another full season to overuse Proctor, thus hastening the end of his career.
By SSI Fan
July 31, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
Thanks Joe Schmoe. I hadn’t seen any news about his signing and knew the deadline was in August. I hate having Scott Boras’s clients on the Braves.
By Jay
July 31, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
The Braves continue to wait on the Mark Teixeira deal to be formalized before finalizing their trade for Octavio Dotel. Sources told Yahoo! Sports’ Tim Brown that neither deal had any chance of falling through. The Braves are trading Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz and a second pitcher for Teixeira and Ron Mahay, plus Kyle Davies to Kansas City for Dotel. Source: Yahoo! Sports
By RIP SaltyWoody
July 31, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
According to DOB’s story here: http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/07/30/trade_0730.html the Braves included Neftali Feliz:
“The second pitcher will be right-hander Neftali Feliz, 19, a hard-throwing Dominican rated the Braves’ No. 18 prospect by Baseball America. He has 70 strikeouts in 5 1/3 innings in two seasons at Rookie and Class-A levels.”
70 Strikeouts in 5 1/3 innings?!?!?! Crap. Maybe we shouldn’t have traded this guy. That’s over 14 strikeouts per inning. That’s ove 126 strikeouts per game. Sheesh. Not even Santana’s doing that.
Ehhh…even still, I’d rather have Tex. His name’s cooler.