AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > July > 25 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTex and Hoss on the corners? That’ll work
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Tex and Hoss on the infield corners for the rest of ’07 and all of 2008?
Yeah, that would work. It’s not a stretch to say the Braves, with Mark Teixeira at first base and a healthy Chipper Jones at third, would have the best lineup in the National League for at least the remainder of this season.
Yes, better than the New York Mets. Those switch-hitting sluggers on the corners would be the best 1-2 run-producing tandem in the league, long as they’re both healthy.
If the Braves could somehow pull off a trade for a top-notch reliever, perhaps in the same deal — Rangers lefty C.J. Wilson or rejuvenated closer Eric Gagne are attractive — then the Braves would, in the eyes of many observers, become the favorite to win the NL East and a strong contender for the NL pennant.
Now, will it happen? Will the Braves get Teixeira in a trade with the Rangers, who I’m told this afternoon are still talking to at least five other teams interested in their power-hitting, Gold Glove first baseman?
I don’t know. I’d say it’s at least a 50-50 proposition that the Braves will pull off the deal, maybe even better, say 65-35. But they’re almost certainly going to have to give up Salty to get Tex, and they might have to give up one of their top pitching prospects.
Would they do Salty and Jo-Jo Reyes for, say, Tex and Wilson? As much as the Braves would hate to give up both their top overall prospect and their top pitching prospect for a slugger they might not be able to afford beyond 2008 and a lefty reliever, they might have to do it.
Because if you look at this Braves team, their glaring weaknesses right now are first base and bullpen, particularly left-handed relief. They don’t have a lefty reliever (Wil Ledezma doesn’t count as a lefty reliever, nothing personal).
So if you could plug both your weaknesses while still only a few games out of first place with 40 percent of the season left to play, and knowing you’d at least be able to keep Tex for another playoff run in 2008, wouldn’t you have to strongly consider doing it?
Keeping in mind, as much as Salty could become a superstar, he’s not going to become that with the Braves, who don’t see moving him to first base a great option, when they can get so much back in a trade for him while he’s still a top prospect.
Sure, they could hold onto him, but what’s to say they’re going to get a better offer for him this winter? Who’s trading top young starting pitching these days? No team is. And if you can’t get a top young starter in return for him, then you fill your biggest weakness in a trade for him.
And from what I’m told, Teixeira, the former Georgia Tech star, would definitely be open to listening to long-term contract offers from the Braves. I know it’s a red flag to many (and probably to the Braves) that he’s repped by Boras, but hey, the Braves are either going to be able to afford to re-sign Andruw or they’re going to clear up an awful lot of payroll by not doing so.
And if they don’t re-sign Boras client Andruw, then they’re going to have to fill that offensive hold with a power hitter. Not many better ones available than Teixeira, who’ll also give you Gold Glove defense, something that’s important to the Braves at first base, if they can get it.
Teixeira is only 27, and he’s a career .286 hitter who averaged 35 homers in his first four seasons through 2006 and totaled a whopping 366 RBIs in the past three seasons with OBPs of .370 or higher in each of those seasons and slugging percentages of .560, .575 and .514.
Oh, he also played all 162 games in 2005 and again in 2006.
The man had 144 RBIs and led the AL with 370 total bases in 2005, and his huge offensive totals aren’t merely a product of a hitters’ ballpark. He actually hit more homers on the road (21) last season than at home (12), after hitting 30 of his 43 at home in 2005.
This season? He’s hit .300 with 23 doubles, 13 homers, 48 RBIs and a .404 OBP and .537 slugging percentage in 74 games, and had a stint on the DL for a leg injury.
Before going on the DL in early June, he was tearing it up. Teixeira hit .347 with 16 doubles, 12 homers, 38 RBIs and a .439 OBP in 40 games from April 27 to June 8, playing in all 40 Texas games in that stretch (dude plays every day).
He’s hit .292 with only one homer and seven RBIs in 13 games since returning from the DL, but has a .404 OBP. It also took Chipper a while to get his power stroke back when he returned from the DL, remember.
Would I do this trade, with Salty and Tex as the principles? Given the Braves’ current situation, and the fact that Teixeira would be back for at least 2008, yes, I would. But I’d hold out until the very last moment possible trying to get either Wilson or Gagne thrown into the mix, even if I had to give up Matt Harrison (but not Reyes) to get it done.
Stay tuned. This could happen. Could happen soon. Just don’t know. But when I don’t get callbacks from certain people in timely fashion, it’s usually an indication the Braves are heavily involved in talks.
Gagne is back: I’ll admit until very recently I wasn’t sold on Gagne, since I’ve seen him break down so frequently in recent years. But after checking into his status with people I know, and after looking at his numbers, it’s changed my mind.
Then seeing him save both games in a doubleheader yesterday for the Rangers, convinced me further. But God, get him out of Texas before they pitch him into the ground.
I mean, using Gagne in both ends of a doubleheader, with his history of arm problems? Insanity.
Anyway, check his numbers: He’s 2-0 with a 2.16 ERA has converted 16 of 17 saves, most of those in the past four weeks since moving into the closer role full-time. He’s got 29 strikeouts and 12 walks in 33-1/3 innings, and opponents are hitting just .192, including a meager .155 (9-for-58) with no homers by left-handed batters.
(Hey, Braves need a lefty, but he’d be the next-best thing — kill two birds with one stone, too, by giving them another closer option.)
Since June 26, Gagne has pitched 12 times and converted nine of 10 saves while allowing 12 hits, five runs and one homer in 12-1/3 innings. That included two scoreless innings for two saves in Tuesday’s doubleheader vs. Seattle (again, I say, insanity).
And get this: Gagne has been untouchable in road games, the complete antithesis of Bob Wickman, who as you probably know, has been terrible on the road and not blown a save or even given up an earned run at home.
Yes, Wickman got a 0.00 ERA to go with a .150 opponents’ average and 8-for-8 saves converted at home, and an 8.20 ERA and .349 opponents’ average with five blown saves in 14 opportunities on the road, including last night’s blown save in the 13-inning win vs. San Francisco.
Gagne? He’s got a 3.72 ERA and .230 opponents’ average in 20 games at Texas (outstanding, in that park) and a 0.00 ERA, .130 opponents’ average, and 10-for-10 saves in 14 road appearances.
So between Gagne on the road, and Wickman at Turner Field, you’d have the ideal closer combination, right? OK, so it wouldn’t work that way, since Bobby Cox isn’t exactly avant-garde in his approach (which is probably a good thing, for the most part).
But it’s nice for Braves fans to dream, eh? Sort of like Hoss and Tex on the infield corners, although that might be a lot closer to reality.
Ok, some blues. Blues lyrics don’t always translate well without the accompaniment. But if you’re not familiar with the tune, just imagine some deep, deep blues, “The Hook” in his low rumble of a voice, and the fog rolling in….
”FRISCO BLUES” by John Lee Hooker
I left my heart in San Francisco
I left my heart, people, in San Francisco
High on the hill, at the Golden Gate, ‘cross the bay,
in San Francisco, on the hill, the mornin’ fog,
and the cool, cool night
That’s where, I wanna be, San Francisco
That’s where
my heart up in New York City,
I’ve been to Chicago,
but found no place, like San Francisco,
with the cable car, high, high, on the hill.
In the mornin’ fog, the evening breeze,
the cool, cool night, is where I wanna be
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Work, work people, tell me about it, now
work out, work out
I got the blues for San Francisco
Yes, yes, yes, yes!
My heart is there, high, on the hill,
right down by the Golden Gate, ‘cross the bay,
that’s where I wanna be
I left my heart right there, in San Francisco
with the mornin’ fog and the cool, cool night, the cable cars on the hill.
That’s where I wanna be people,
my heart is there, my heart is there.
Comments
By Ryan
July 25, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
I hope the Tex chances are better than 50-50, but for some strange reason I have a feeling it will not happen. Not sure why…just a feeling.
By Jared
July 25, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
Holding out till the last moment could mean the Yankees pick up a few games on the Red Sox and cause the Red Sox to panic and blow away the Rangers for Teixeira. Or it could embolden the Yankees to fill their first base hole.
If Schuerholz wants Teixeira, he better pull the trigger ASAP.
By john
July 25, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Are the braves, or anyone in talks about trading for Helton?
Who would you rather have?
By ElbravoX-- EbX
July 25, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Number Three?
By geauxbraves2000
July 25, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB for taking the time out to start another Blog.
I’d pull the trigger today on Salty + prospect for Tex/reliever. The sooner the better, for if the bullpen continues to falter, the Mets may start to pull away.
Geaux Braves!!
By ElbravoX-- EbX
July 25, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
Number five?
By Crimedogcollector
July 25, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Any possibility this thing gets done doing Elvis and either Harrison or Reyes for big Tex and a reliever?
By rupert
July 25, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
DOB, with reyes and especially carlyle solidifying their spots in the rotation, combined james’ pretty sollid work, do you get the feeling the braves are starting to think they might not have to get a starter by the deadline? seems like the ‘pen and first base is of bigger concern?
By BamaBrave
July 25, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
Not much noise this afternoon in here from the Mets Peanut Gallery, eh? This trade possibility must have them a little worried. It should.
By Ryan
July 25, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
I have been 1st 2x in a matter of a week.
By Bob
July 25, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
DOB,
If we trade Jo Jo, who do you see filling the #5 starter? I know you have to give to get, but we are just now starting to see some stability in #3 to #5.
By parks
July 25, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Tex over Helton easily. Younger and right now much cheaper contract. Also Tex has much more power at this stage
By Ethan
July 25, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Pull the trigger.
By Interested Observer
July 25, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this
I agree, DOB. I would do the deal. I like Salty a lot, but this just makes a lot of sense to me. Along with everything DOB said, also consider that if we trade Salty, we bring Pena back up and still have a more than capable back-up catcher. And if they cut Woodward to bring up Pena, all the better!
By TheCutMan
July 25, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
Excellent report, DOB, and good rationale as well. The Braves are in the race to this point, meaning they’re highly competitive in the NL East.
Getting the extra pieces in Tex and a consistent reliever could or would tip the balance for another Braves’ post season appearance in my view. Making this deal in one of its incarnations would send a strong message to all concerned that *”Next year is NOW!”. *
Plug the holes, acquire the talent and let’s go to war for a pennant run in 2007. End of report.
By Jobu
July 25, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Any chance you’ve had a chance to talk to Soriano or McDowell about whether the increased movement he showed in Monday night’s game (“97 mph sinkers”) was the result of something he’s been working on or just one of those nights where his ball had extra life?
Also, what lefties do you think are available that the Braves are currently looking at? I think Marte would be an excellent fit. Lefties are hitting just .087/.192/.279 off him. CJ Wilson if they can get him in a Tex deal would also be a great option too.
By lilman916
July 25, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
DOB, Are you sure about your stats for Tex? If so, where are you getting them?
By Loser Met fan who lives in his mom's basement
July 25, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
You guys ain’t getting Big Tex. Hahahahahahaha. Your GM is old, tired and slow. Hahahahahahahaha.
Now Omar could get Big Tex. Lastings Milledge and Mike Pelfrey for him. Hmm, yeah I like it. Way better than Salt-a-la-loser. Could flip Delgado to the Dodgers of something. Make it happen Omar!
Hahahahahahahaha!
By Bubbaallred
July 25, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
JS - If you’re listening … We WANT TEX! and Wilson. I’m ok if salty, jojo, and elvis have to go. Let’s win it this year. Smoltzie may not hold up for next year.
PS. If we get Tex, he better be batting cleanup.
By JasonInMaine
July 25, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
John,
Absolutely no comparison at this stage in their careers…I would take Tex without a second thought…
Regards,
Jason
By doug
July 25, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this
Is Pena still catching in the minors? I remember they had him playing all over the field to learn some new positions, and I was just wondering if he would need to get his catching swerve back on???
By TommyP
July 25, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
HOSS? You have to give that up, man. I know the man-crush is strong for you but that is just a lame nickname for a guy that breaks down like peanut brittle.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 25, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
I think DOB is right. If the Rangers will accept Salty, Harrison, and lets say Thorman for Texiera and Wilson or Gagne (preferably) then you have to make that deal. Again, Salty COULD become a star. Texiera IS a star. And, he would be here for next season as well. The deal has to get it done.
By BravesDave
July 25, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this
If JS is serious about this Tex deal, get it down NOW. There is no reason to drag it out, especially with the Mets playing a weaker schedule currently. GET IT DONE.
It was cool to see The Smiths and Morrissey get some respect on the previous blog. I had tix to see two Morrissey shows at Madison Square Garden and in Atlantic City over the past few weeks and he cancelled both. I have still seen him at least 10 times over the past 15 years. Great performer and The Smiths are definitely one of the best bands in history…unbelievable song catalogue for a band that only existed for 5 years.
By wiki
July 25, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
For such a bad team, the Rangers have a pretty good bullpen.
By Halloweenhead (eware)
July 25, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
DOB, if we pull the Tex deal, what do you see happening with Thorman? I’m not a big fan of the guy, but I think he’s better than Franco (or will be, of course).
I know we’d have to put him through waivers, and I’m not sure it’d be worth it to do that and keep Franco.
I don’t know any other backup first baseman prospects in the Braves system.
By Tad
July 25, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Thanks for the information on the possibilities with Teixeira. The rumor mill is really buzzing and I am excited the Braves are on the top of the list. He could be the biggest mid-season acquisition since Crime Dog McGriff. One of my friends went to U. of Richmond with his wife and it would be great to see Teixeira in a Braves uniform. I have accepted the fact that Andruw will be gone next year and we should be able to use the money we save from for a Teixeira contract, who will fit into the clean up spot very well behind Renteria and Chipper.
Although I think Salty has star potential and I was picturing him as the franchise 1B for the next 8+ years, Tex is already in his 5th full season and has demonstrated that he can play every day. He would be a perfect fit here! Tex is a career .284 hitter who hits 40 HR and 110+ RBIs per season, which would be a tremendous upgrade from Andruw “HR or K” Jones.
In addition to Salty for Tex, the Rangers would probably be willing to take Harrison for a C.J. Wilson. Ledezma hasn’t proven he can throw strikes any better than McBride could, so he should be sent to the minors to work on that (as well as remembering to clean out his pockets before doing the laundry). Meanwhile, depending on the starting rotation, we could move Jo-Jo out to the bullpen as well.
After staying up past 2 AM last night and going through a box of Rolaids, I am sure glad the Braves hung on and won. Hudson was really going after Bonds! We desparately need some bullpen help. The Tex / Wilson deal for Salty / Harrison would be ideal.
Keep up the good work on the road DOB!
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
Who is our 5th starter if we trade Reyes?
By David O'Brien
July 25, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
lilman, gonna have to be more specific — which stats are you questioning about Tex?
By Chipper MVP
July 25, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this
Is it too soon to proclaim Chipper the NL MVP??? 1999 & 2007! All-Star snub and MVP would be great payback. He deserves it. What a great, smart hitter. I am so glad he got that 7th run with his RBI to knock in Edgar last night. It proved to be pretty valuable.
By rupert
July 25, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
hey mets fool, why don’t you ask you “great” gm about that bartolo colon trade he did while he was north of the border, one of the single worst- and just plain stupid trades of all time
our old gm has something your overrated gm doesnt: a ring
and don’t say he’s gonna get one this year, last years mets were far better than this years version and still couldnt get it done, go crawl back under your hole
By brnt247
July 25, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
There’s a link on Wikipedia stating the trade has occured
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Teixeira
I don’t know about the reliability but it is stated towards the bottom of the sight. Any validation?
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
July 25, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
I never thought this would happen , the Braves considering trading Salty ? WOW ! Tex is the real deal and all but Salty would be around till 2012 before he would be eligible for free agency. Thats a lot of years and potential to risk for possibly the final two months of 2007 and all of 2008. Hampton’s contract is up after next season , so it’s safe to assume the Braves will have the money to allocate elsewhere. Can the Braves get more than one and a third season’s out of Teixeira ? I certainly hope so when considering Salty could be around for five more years after this season. Davies could be on the trading block to , but would the Rangers want him. This is very strange , the Braves were short in the rotation and now they seem to have a surplus of starters with Davies and Cormier backing up our starting five. The bullpen which looked so formidable is over worked and short on gas. The offense went from being A.W.O.L to dominant. How quickly things do change.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 25, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
The waiting is driving us all crazy. Bandwidth will be crashing for the next week until the deadline passes.
But Holy Cornelia, folks, as DOB has said, don’t you get it? The Rangers aren’t going to pull the trigger until THEY are convinced they’re not going to get a better offer than the ones that are now on the table.
Daniels has the incentive to wait … until the deadline arrives. I have no doubt that Schuerholz would have made a deal that Braves fans would be delighted with days ago. But he doesn’t hold the cards. Daniels does. Live with it.
By BravesDave
July 25, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this
If JS is serious about this Tex deal, get it down NOW. There is no reason to drag it out, especially with the Mets playing a weaker schedule currently. GET IT DONE.
It was cool to see The Smiths and Morrissey get some respect on the previous blog. I had tix to see two Morrissey shows at Madison Square Garden and in Atlantic City over the past few weeks and he cancelled both. I have still seen him at least 10 times over the past 15 years. Great performer and The Smiths are definitely one of the best bands in history…unbelievable song catalogue for a band that only existed for 5 years.
By BamaBrave
July 25, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
Ahhhh, another Chipper Basher heard from…that’s dynamite, TommyP. Listen man, the dude can have any nickname he wants when he’s playing the way he’s playing. Just the cortisone shots Chipper has had to endure, would have you hunched up in the corner in the fetal position, sucking your thumb. You want to b#tch about someone’s physical limitations, pick on Wickman. He’s doing that to himself.
By ElbravoX-- EbX
July 25, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
I am never first, but the Braves will be soon…Tex gives the Braves the chance to LOOSE the East. Equal only to Shefield or of Mcgrif(?).Hopefully The Ted will catch fire ala ‘93.
By Midnight Earl
July 25, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
Kudos on the blog DOB…very well said. I think you probably just swayed the last 25% of the folks that were against us getting Teixeira.
Teixeira is the new McGriff!
Do it…do it!
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
DOB
Who is our 5th starter if we trade Reyes?
By Ron
July 25, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer I dont know man!!! I just started doing it one day, its kind of my signature!!! LOL!!!
By Mark
July 25, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
Now the Wikipedia article says that Escobar is included with Salty in that deal….and that Gagne would be coming to ATL as well. That can’t be true…can it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Teixeira
By Bob
July 25, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this
brnt247,
Yeah it sure is on Wiklopedia, but that is frequently a bad resource for fact. Would be cool if it is right this time.
By Jared
July 25, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
From Wikipedia:
“Mark Teixeira was traded to the Atlanta Braves for Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Yunel Escobar on July 25, 2007. Also included in the trade was Eric Gagne and a player to be named later.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Teixeira
I know it’s total BS, but it’s still funny that someone put it up there.
By Monsieur Bobby Cox
July 25, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
…since Bobby Cox isn’t exactly avant-garde in his approach
Mon Dieu ! Je suis sur le tranchant. Je suis un génie. Je suis un atist du diamant. Comment défi une modeste de journaliste question mes capacités. Je ne répondrai plus à vos questions stupides, Dave O’Brien. Maintenant, où est-il mon café au lait?
By bravesfan
July 25, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
FOXSPORTS
Mark Teixeira update: One rival general manager believes the Dodgers and Braves are the front-runners
The Braves are believed to be offering the Rangers a multi-player package that includes Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who likely would catch for Texas, though he also can play first base. The Rangers also could send a reliever to the Braves along with Teixeira, possibly left-hander Ron Mahay.
By ppc1040
July 25, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Its more likely that someone is having a little fun with the Wikipedia page. It doesn’t cite any sources, so I wouldn’t buy it.
By brnt247
July 25, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Still not sure, it doesn’t say “needs verification” next to it anymore though.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 25, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this
Yeah, agreed on Helton. High OBP but minimal power … and a HUGE contract.
By brnt247
July 25, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
Gone now, disregard that wikipedia link.
By Lucas...
July 25, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
Mark: It doesn’t say anything about the trade going through. Actually it says nothing even close
By Multiple Choice
July 25, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox has already carefully selected a nickname for Mark Teixeira.
It is:
a) Tex b) Cher c) uh d) kid e) Myron
By Eric
July 25, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
Mark, where does wikipedia say anything about a trade besides what teams are interested?
By kg
July 25, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
Why is Woodward still on this team? That was a little league mistake he made on the throw to second last night. I live on the west coast so I didn’t have to stay up all night to see the game. I love what Willie has been doing in left, but he’s had like three defensive breakdowns in the last three games. Could have saved the game last night if he had gone all out on the double in the ninth. Also felt like he misjudged the homer hit by Pujos and then gets dinked by Pujos who took third base on him. Hopefully, he learns from these.
I think Salty has much more value as a switch hitting catcher than as a first baseman. He will not be an all-star at first. So packaging him in a trade for Tex and a lefty reliever would be a great move.
By rammerjammer
July 25, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
Ron,
Go with it!!!
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
July 25, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
One more thing , I can’t wait to see Tim Lincecum pitch tomorrow night , his natural mechanics on the mound remind me so much of Nolan Ryan. In fact , his pitching motion is almost a carbon copy of Ryan’s. Can’t wait to see him pitch !
By MGL
July 25, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
Anyone can post on wikipedia, it’s probably NO CHOP ZONE or some other idiot.
By Chris
July 25, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t do the trade if you only get Tex for this year and next. Just not worth it to give up that much for a season and a half. The Braves need to be able to sign him long term to make the trade worth it in my opinion.
By humbug
July 25, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this
Why is everyone in such a hurry to trade our young players who should be very good for years for some high priced cast-offs who might be here no more than the balance of this season?? It is so stupid to tear down your future for a quick fix for this season alone. We probably won’t make the playoffs anyway. Does anyone expect all this talk about getting rid of Salty and Escobar when they have shown tremendous talent won’t affect them?? If I were Hudson or Smoltz I would demand to be traded since the Braves want to unload good players. Hudson should have had a well deserved complete game win last night, only needing one more out. Look what Bobby and Wickman did to that. Bobby just won’t bend. He has lost more games for us this year than all the pitchers and batters. Shameful side of him.
By rupert
July 25, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
mcgriff ‘93 esque anyone?
By Lucas...
July 25, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
I take back my last statement. It now says this. You know it’s someone with jokes now…
“Teixeira was traded to the Atlanta Braves for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Chris Woodward and a PTBNL (likely Pete Orr), according to Bill Shanks and the posters at BravesJournal.com.”
By rammerjammer
July 25, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
Now it says this:
On July 25, 2007, Teixeira was traded to the Atlanta Braves for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Chris Woodward and a PTBNL (likely Pete Orr), according to Bill Shanks and the posters at BravesJournal.com.
Too dang funny!
By Ron
July 25, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
DOB You think there is any chance we can get Tex, CJ Wilson, and Gagne? We can offer: Salty, Harrison, Devine, Dan Smith, and Lillibridge!!! You think they take that deal for all three? It would be hard to get ALL THREE, but man that would be great!!!
By Johnny B
July 25, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
I’m with you DOB…As much as I like Salty he’s still a “prospect”. He has all the tools and probably will become an all star someday. I thought the same thing when the Braves dealt “Top prospect” Marte for Edgar and we all see how that has turned out. I do think we absolutely have to have help for the bullpen but not at the cost of Reyes. Maybe Thor could be a throw in on the deal…I still think Kyle Davies will eventually become a reliable starter. I might be willing to throw him into the mix or Cormier for Gagne or Wilson and maybe a minor leaguer with some upside. Any updates on Sturtze? and is Aybar still MIA and what do you think the Braves will eventually do with him?
Long time reader…first time posting..Really enjoy your and Carrolls work.
By matt
July 25, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
I would be down to trade Salty for Teixeira. As much as I love Salty, Teixeir would fortify a position that has been awful for the Braves this year, and next year. He will help replace Andruw’s power next year.
However, we can’t trade Andrus or Reyes. Andrus is rated our 2nd best prospect, and is only 18 years old. Too much potential to give up right now. And Reyes is a solid lefty with 4 plus pitches. Young, solid pitchers are way too hard to come by. Must hold on to him.
Schuerholz will do what is right for this team present and future. The man does have 14 division titles under his belt, so he has obviously done something right. So get us some help JS and GO BRAVES!!!
By bravesfan
July 25, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this
DOB THIS ISN’T TRUE IS IT?
Mark Charles Teixeira (IPA:təːʃɛɹə) (born April 11, 1980 in Annapolis, Maryland) is a Major League Baseball player with the Atlanta Braves. He is mainly a first baseman, but has also played at third base and in the outfield. On July 25, 2007, Teixeira was traded to the Atlanta Braves for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Chris Woodward and a PTBNL (likely Pete Orr), according to Bill Shanks and the posters at BravesJournal.com.
By JordanPTC
July 25, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this
Great post, DOB. I’d pull the trigger, especially if we can pick up a decent reliever out of the deal. When we look back on the season, our offensive numbers will be fine… but it’s our pitching that will have derailed us. Pitching should be our priority at this point, especially considering that we can’t count on our ‘pen to hold a 1 run lead with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth!
By Mark
July 25, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this
It was already removed from Wikipedia
By GTA
July 25, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this
The Wiki article states that he was traded for Salty, Woody and a PTBNL. But the website they gave as a reference has no mention of it. It’s a little weird, Maybe JS edited it in hopes that the Rangers would actually take Woody off the Braves’ hands so they could call up Prado or use Escobar more.
Either way, I really have a feeling this will work out for the Braves, I have a feeling that the Rangers REALLY like Salty enough. Someone wrote somewhere (I think on CNNSI) that the Rangers were willing to build around Salty and make him the center of their offense. I don’t know how true it will be, but if they want him that bad, they’d probably be willing to part with a guy like Gagne who won’t be around for them next year anyway.
By Ron
July 25, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer* These Exclamation points are kinda catchy aint they!!! LOL!!!
By geauxbraves2000
July 25, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this
From Rotoworld.com:
*Shea Hillenbrand, who has only been offered minor league contracts, is deciding between San Diego and another NL team.
The Braves, Marlins and Cardinals seem like reasonable candidates to be the other team in the mix*
My reaction: Me running away pulling my hair screaming “Noooooo!”
Geaux Braves!!
By Mac
July 25, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this
No. I run bravesjournal.com and some of the posters there have turned to some minor vandalism after someone originally posted the trade. Obviously it’s untrue.
By Colin
July 25, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this
BravesFan
I cant get the link to work…I hope it is true…
By Johnny B
July 25, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this
I hate to give up young talent as well but you have to give to get! You can’t keep “waiting” for the future every year. If the Braves can do anything they can sign and develope young talent. If we lose Salty and even Escobar ( who I would hate to lose worse than any prospect) the cupboard will still be “stocked” for as long as the Braves current system and people are in place.
By T
July 25, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this
If the Rangers are waiting to see the best deal they can get… I say JS makes it impossible to wait. Trade: Salty, Davies, Thorman and some other pitching prospect (not James or Jo-Jo). For: Tex and lefty reliever. Tell the Rangers the deal is on the table for 60 minutes and watch them pull the trigger. C’mon JS, if they are holding the cards… bring a new deck to the table. Take control and get the deal done. We will be right back in the drivers seat in the NL East.
Next year Andruw leaves, Hampton and Gonzo return. Resign Tex to a 3 year deal… We’re good for several years. I should be the freagin GM!
By dgd
July 25, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this
All of this talk about the Braves giving up their future for Teixeira and a reliever makes me sick. JS comes across as an old guy going for the glory, future be damned. MLB.com is reporting it’s not just Salty, who I would trade, but also Reyes and Andrus. It reminds me of a few years back when the Orioles gave up Curt Schilling, Steve Finley and Pete Harnisch to the Astros for one Glenn Davis. Everyone hailed it at the time as a great move: the O’s got the slugger they had long needed. I had the same sinking feeling at that time—that one didn’t turn out so good did it? If Tex walks after last year, the Braves are going to look even more foolish than they did giving up Wainwright and Marquis for one year of JD Drew—oh, yeah, another Boras client…….
By Carroll (NOT Ms. Rogers)
July 25, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this
PLEASE do NOT trade NaCl for a guy who is basically the SAME player that Salty is/will be, when what we REALLY need is relief pitching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By DHD
July 25, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this
It makes sense to trade Salty because his career should be as a catcher. We have a pretty good one. We need a first baseman and there is no guarantee that Salty will be any more than a Andy Marte. So, do the deal. Try to get Gagne. Do it!!
By Vol
July 25, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this
How much does the thinking factor in that if you don’t resign Tex you get 2 early draft picks as compensation. So, at worst, you get Tex for 1.5 years, maybe immediate pen help, and two picks for Salty and Harrison (or similar). Braves have a nice history with 1st and 2nd rounders.
I think it is enough to make me pull the trigger. I’m a midwesterner, so I’ll only see Atlanta a few times on TBS after this year anyway, so win now!
By AMG
July 25, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this
Humbug -
Salty and Escobar are very good but YOUNG players. It usually takes them 2-3 years before they start to put up consistant numbers… something TEX could give the Braves now and in 2008. This Braves team needs a consistant hitter in the line-up.
If we wait for Salty and the others to mature as players, Smoltz is retired, Chipper feet may be gone, and Hudson is only getting older. This year and next year may be the best chance for this core group of Braves.
By TennesseePaul
July 25, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this
If they want our farm, then they better send Tex, Gange and cash. We’re going to have to fix the 5th spot again. How’s Davies doing in AAA? Has even had a start yet?
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this
Brewers acquired RHP Scott Linebrink from the Padres for RHP Will Inman, LHP Joe Thatcher and LHP Steve Garrison.
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this
The price for middle relievers just went up after that Padre-Brewer trade. Inman was a stud, ranked #3 in the Brewers farm system. He had really good numbers this year.
By geauxbraves2000
July 25, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this
Off to Church. Oops, I said an evil word, the ACLU is going to sue me.
Geaux Braves!!
ps - sure would like to come home to “Tex is now a Brave!
By rc
July 25, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this
do the deal
By brnt247
July 25, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this
DOB what do you think are the chances of this happening?
By TennesseePaul
July 25, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this
On July 25, 2007, Teixeira was traded to the Atlanta Braves for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Chris Woodward and a PTBNL (likely Pete Orr), according to Bill Shanks and the
HA! If that’s true I wanna give JS a high five. How’d he sneek Woodward in there?
By Paladin
July 25, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See!!!! I got one too!!!!!!!!!!!!
By John B.
July 25, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this
Jason: Explain to me HOW JS doesn’t have the gall to pull this deal off? He has NEVER, -ever- been shy about trading off prospects for players that will help now. Never has, and I will bet all my money that he never will. Know your sh$t before you call someone out.
By Chop Chop
July 25, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this
“On June 9, 2007, Teixeira’s franchise record 507 consecutive-game streak came to an end. Teixeira landed awkwardly at first base after running out a grounder in a game against the Milwaukee Brewers the previous day. The streak was second to Miguel Tejada at the time. The strained quadricep placed Teixeira onto to disabled list for only the second time of his career.
Sources in my mom’s basement tell me that Tex will be a New York Met. That is all.”
Hahahahaha! Gotta love those Wikipedia folks!
By Sonny
July 25, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this
It’s sad that the only reason we would need to trade for relief and 1B help, is because Thorman (Franco is done) never did his job from the start and Wickman and Soriano forgot how to do theirs. If everyone earns their damn paycheck, we don’t need to give up future superstars to rent veteran players for a year to fill holes we shouldn’t have in the first place.
By bigboi
July 25, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
Any chance they can throw Slammin Sammy Sosa in with the deal?
By JC FROM UT
July 25, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
The deal for Tex has to be done. Worst case scenerio is that if Tex decides not to resign after 2008 then JS deals him again for someone elses prospects. He wil not be a 10-5 guy and he obviously does not have a no trade clause. I agree that the team should look to 2008 as well as this year but 2009 is too far away. JS, if it is on the table, take it.
By Stephen
July 25, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
sorry to burst your bubble but you wont get wilson in a trade, i mean no disrespect like the met fan but i am a ranger fan and wilson will not be traded…our other lefty mahay might be and anyone else in bullpen except wilson, he has much talent and is viewed as future closer or starter, they really like this kid and likely wont give him up, u could probably get gagne though and tex for salty and reyes…mlb also includes some single A infielder in discussion?
By Adam
July 25, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
dgd,
Glen Davis was in his 30’s when that trade happened. Texeria is 27 and a proven switch hitting, gold glove run producer. Who knows if Salty or Elvis are going to be anywhere near that.
Remember to that Betemit was a highly touted prospect in the Braves system who really never turned out as expected. Salty and Elvis are unproven commodities.
Remember to that Texeria could be traded in the winter for a true and proven starter. Great piece to have available if the Braves don’t feel like they could sign him long term.
By Dwight Fry
July 25, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this
Anyone notice:
R-Braves beat Ottawa 8-0 yesterday.
L. Cormier pitches complete game shutout (6 hits, 4 K’s, 0 BB). His record is now 4-1 with 3.60 ERA.
K. Davies has had 1 start (no decision) 5 IP, 5 hits 1 ER.
Pitcher to keep an eye on: J Winkelsas. Great name, huh?
By Ron Roberts
July 25, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
Wikipedia’s been amended, folks. Calm down. And good grief, why would you be looking for baseball information *there, * anyhow?
I’m all jacked about this trade rumor, though, and knowing we’re 50-65% assured of it happening only have me that more excited.
Grabbing a lefty reliever out of the deal would be sweet, too. I just hope it doesn’t involve our losing Jo Jo Reyes to make it happen, but if it has to be, it has to be. We have other options (Lance Cormier’s coming along, right?) to deal with the 5th spot. Hell, fix the ‘pen and 1B and I’ll take four strong starters, a dynamite lineup and a quality bullpen and roll with it.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this
What’s the deal with Wickman & Soriano ? They look like sorry relievers all of a sudden. Wickman will walk any hitter. Soriano is grooving pitches right down the middle that get hammered. If we could get Teixeira and Gagne for let’s say salty,Wickman,and a double A pitching top prospect I’d do the trade. I have zero confidence in Wickman and about 25 % in Soriano. Are Bobby and JS watching these guys fail and give wins away like we are ? They can do something about it and we can’t. The question is will they ?
By OJ
July 25, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
If Barroid is recognized as the all-time Home run King and Pete Rose is not immediately inducted into the HOF, then there is no justice in this country. But then…we knew that, didn’t we? HaHaHaHa.
By William
July 25, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this
DOB,
The trade for Teixeira and maybe Gagne sounds great but can the Braves afford to add $15 million in salary? Tex already makes $9 million and Gagne $6 million. I realize Andruw and his $14 million is probably gone for next season, but that still leaves Mike Hampton and his $15.5 million to sit at home again next season when he hurts something else (I’ve said this before, Mike, be a man, stop stealing money and please retire) and Huddy is due a big salary bump next year. Giving up Salty and a pitching prospect for maybe 2 years out of Tex and who knows how long with Gagne (I am assuming at this point) seem like a good deal from a personnel standpoint, but given how finance-driven baseball is nowadays, is it even doable? Throw in the specter of having to deal with Scott Boras (I’m an attorney but I still hate how he does business) and it’s all that much more iffy. The core of young players the Braves have now is by far the most exciting thing about the team and to engage in more “rent-a-player” deals like they did with J.D. Drew (anybody who watched Adam Wainwright pitch the other night knows what I mean) at the expense of the franchise’s long-term strength is not an attractive scenario.
Not to change subjects, but is it my imagination or is Bob Wickman throwing harder than he did last season? If so, I wish he’d cut it out because it’s like Russian Roulette every time he pitches now, even with the gaudy home numbers. I swear, last season he topped out at 88-89, but was constantly throwing on the black at the knees and hitters couldn’t touch him. Now he humps it up there at 91-92, but can’t spot the ball, is walking people, leaving hanging sliders in the middle of the plate and getting lit up. Is he taking advice from Paronto? What’s the deal?
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this
So much truth in your post Sonny ! I couldn’t have said it better myself. I’d pay some guys to kick my butt if I were Wickman,Soriano,and Thorman. They all three need whipping. At least return some of that money that you didn’t earn…Their lackluster play can really p** ya off !
By bravesfan
July 25, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
Just saw this on Wikipedia
Sources close to ESPN have stated that on July 25th Teixeira was traded to the Atlanta Braves along with Eric Gagne for Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Jo Jo Reyes
By DonCoburleone
July 25, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
DOB about time for a new blog isn’t it?
Just kidding man, thanks for putting up such a good article… BTW, I’m sorry, can we laugh about this now???
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
Lance Cormier is a mystery. The guy was lights out in spring training then gets hurt. When he returns he tries to break Bert Blyleven’s gopher (homeruns allowed) ball record in one night ! Now he’s lights out at Richmond. Will the real Cormier please stand up or freaking sitcha azz down ?
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this
Typical Wickman inning : Enters game up 4-1 in 9th. Walk,single,wild pitch,walk,double,walk,out,out,single,walk,double,GAME OVER Braves lose 5-4.
My blood boils high every time he enters a game now.
By Jason
July 25, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this
wikipedia is reporting that DOB sleeps with pigs to get his trade rumors.
By Chop Chop
July 25, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
I’ll admit that I went to Wikipedia and amended the “PTBNL (likely Pete Orr)” part to read “PTBNL (likely 10-time NL All-Star and future Hall of Famer Pete Orr)”. When I saw the absurdities being posted there, I couldn’t stop myself from taking five seconds to create an account so I could make a minor embellishment to Pete Orr’s career.
By Tomahawkin
July 25, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
OMG!!after reading the posts last nite…I see I wasn’t the only one who got violent last nite after watching a blowpen meltdown (I threw my loafers at the TV out of violence, gottastop doing that…), Glad we came back, We’re not going anywhere however if the blowpen pulls dat shyt against teams like the Mutts and Phillies…
By the Stranger
July 25, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
Since when did Wikipedia become the primary source of news and information for rumor rabid baseball fans?
By chip
July 25, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this
Dave,
Do yourself a favor today…as you’re walking around North Beach, stop by and get a slice of the best pizza on earth at North Beach Pizza. Man…my mouth waters at the very thought.
As for the Braves, I can see trading Salty. I can see trading Diaz. I could even see trading (gulp) Edgar, since Yunel could play short — and no, it won’t happen. But PLEASE don’t let me see the Braves trading starting pitching. You said it yourself — nobody is trading good, young starting pitching these days.
So what would it take to get Tex and Gagne?
-chip
(and yes, my name really IS Chip)
By Gil In Mechanicsville
July 25, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
ATTENTION!!!!!! The question is not can the Braves afford players, it is do they choose to spend the money.
Getting close to a feeding frenzie like atmosphere on the old blog DOB*
I doubt the Braves are the team holding up this trade.
By JJMB
July 25, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to lose Saltalamacchia. I learned how to spell his name.
However, as Buck Belue has said, If the Braves are going to strike for another world title, now is the time. Smoltz and Chipper are at the ends of their careers. The rest of the NL is vunerable. Andruw is gone next year (sooner the better, frankly). Hudson has come to life. The offense is starting to crank. If Wickman and Soriano get it back, adding Teixeira could push us over the top.
Then I would bother to learn how to spell his name, instead of copying and pasting it.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
Ever thought about how a player can have a contract paying him (for example) $7 million and he’s hitting better than guys at the same position making $12 million a year ? It happens a lot. but you never hear about those players (Andruw for example) making $16 million but hitting like players making $2 million a year that want to give some of those millions back because they aren’t earning it do ya ? Hmm… I wonder why ?
By Tomahawkin
July 25, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
RobDawg I have no idea whats up wit dem two, I do know however that Wilfredo Ledezma is really working My nerve and Bobby C’s as well with his mental mistakes…He had me cussing out the tv for about 10 minutes last nite
And to all da bloggers up in here why does everyone hate on Chip?
I was reading a portion of last nites blog and people were dissin him left and right…Hell we could be stuck with Joe Buck…
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this
Keep one eye over your shoulder too Dave. You are in the land of pixies… I’d have a chick (my wife) with me at all times…
By TommyP
July 25, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
BamaBrave: Calm down. I love it when people say things like what you said….as if taking these cortisone shots are something of heroic proportions. But thousands of players have done the same thing over the years in every sport. Again, calm down.
Fact is…the self-imposed nickname he’s given him is incredibly lame.
Besides…I thought his nickname was “Chipper.” Why the need for another one?
Mancrush. My bad.
By Josh
July 25, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this
I’m tired of people questioning giving up an unproven backup catcher and pitching prospect to get a PROVEN very solid player. People… we need a 1st baseman not a catcher. This could be the perfect deal for the Braves IF they can get CJ Wilson in the deal. It would fill our 2 biggest needs (even bigger than starting pitching the way they’ve been pitching) With Andruw leaving the Braves have a good shot at signing Tex to an extension and have Willie in CF next year leading off. We’d have a good shot at the playoffs this year and I would consider us a very legit WORLD SERIES contender for next year (hopefully Gonzo can stay healthy). What do you think?
By deewill23
July 25, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
Hello my fellow bloggers this deewill23 here telling you to check out my first blog site at deewill23.blogspot.com. Tell me how you think about it and I will try to aprove on it.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
I would at least bring up a good starter or reliever from Richmond to close out games. How could they be any worse than Wickman ? On a positive note, Chipper,Smoltz,and Renteria are playing incredible baseball. I say they are team co-MVP’s. Can they be cloned ? Please !
By Braveone
July 25, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
I sure hope this Salty for Tex deal does not go through!! We need **PITCHERS** not **HITTERS**. I would be willing to trade Salty for a top-line starter prospect. I would possibly trade him for some relief help, but starters are still the #1 need for the Braves. I believe the relief corps will be back, if our starters can go deeper into the game.
OK, you say if we trade Salty for pitching who do you get to play 1B. I have the answer & he has been on the team all year. His name is **MATT DIAZ**. I think the lineup would be very potent with a lineup of both Diaz & Harris. Diaz has surprised many with his defense in LF & I believe he could also do the same at 1B. **Give Diaz a chance at 1B!!! ANYBODY with me on this?**
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this
Hey Tomahawkin’, what about calling them the Muts and Feelies ?
By GermanBravesFan
July 25, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this
According to sports radio shows out here in California, the Braves are considered the front runners for Texeira… I agree with DOB: if we could get him AND a solid reliever (Gagne??) for Salty and Harrison, then let’s do it and win it all!!!!
By braves
July 25, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this
I’m one of the few, it seems, to say that trading away young talent now is NOT a good idea. So in two years, after Salty is the AL MVP, Teixeira is with another team, and the Braves are .500 - will it seem like a good move then? I’ve supported JS in the past, but in the past year he has released or traded players away and the Braves have nothing to show for it. The Braves do not need another money rich, greedy, Boras client on the team - one is enough.
By StingerSplash
July 25, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this
Woodward and Pete Orr in a deal to the Rangers (to go along with the other big pieces)? For them, that’s like getting hubcaps when you need a new transmission. If Liberty Media doesn’t loosen the wallet in the offseason and if the Braves do get Teixeira in a deal, you can all but wave goodbye to Andruw. Unless he gets signed to a new deal and the Braves then deal Teixeira in 08, making him the ultimate rent-a-slugger (kinda the way David Cone used to be as a pitcher).
By the Stranger
July 25, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this
TommyP, GFY, amigo. Nobody messes with BamaBrave or Hoss.
By Aaron (Dallas)
July 25, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this
Can someone please explain why Texas would consider trading a young left handed pitcher, who throws in the mid 90’s, and has major league experience? Get your mind off CJ Wilson. It’s not going to happen.
Gagne being included in a deal is much more likely, but he will not come cheap. The Rangers will have to be blown away to trade Tex and Gagne in a package deal. Salty (who has yet to prove anything) and Jo Jo Reyes (who has yet to prove anything) isn’t going to get the deal done.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the scenario DOB threw together is great for Atl, but not so good for Texas. Don’t over-value your players…..essentially, they are potential and nothing more….Texas needs more.
By All Spin Zone
July 25, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this
Linebrink to Brewers for 3 pitching prospects. Just reported on MLB.com
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this
If no trade is made I think Salty should be the every day 1B. He kills the ball even when he makes outs. I liken his hitting to Diaz a lot. Tex will give you a lot more power but Salty will hit for a high average and get on base more. If Andruw would show up every night the 1B conversation would be moot.
By John B.
July 25, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this
Braveone: Tell me what Top-of-the-line starter we could get for Salty? The Pirates aren’t stupid, they wouldn’t give up Ian Snell for him. The reason this deal is being discussed is because there aren’t any starters out on the market who are WORTH giving up Salty for, and no, JS isn’t stupid enough to give him up for “relief help”.
By StingerSplash
July 25, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
If the Braves were ever in the Scott Linebrink sweepstakes, they’ve come in no better than second. He’s going to the Brewers.
By All Spin Zone
July 25, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this
Sorry I was late on the Linebrink thing. Didn’t notice it had already been posted.
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this
3-0 Mets. Damn. We should of capatilized when we had the chance.
By Double Deuce
July 25, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this
This is exciting stuff. Can you imagine the Braves’ lineup if Druw returned to form? Johnson, Renteria, Chipper,Andruw,Texeira,McCann,Francouer,Diaz/Willie. If Gagne’s thrown in, I would do Salty and Jojo for that deal. Too good to pass up and puts the Braves right at the top of the NL in talent. I know the inclusion of Jojo is unpopular, but he is still a prospect, tons of talent but unproven. Adding Gagne to the pen would add depth to an already good, but tired staff. Hope JS can pull this off, and if we don’t have to give up Jojo then its a deal you can’t say no to.
By JordanPTC
July 25, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this
deewill23, first, learn to spell, then maybe someone will check ya out
By RC
July 25, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this
The only reasons to not pull off a deal with Salty-Texiera as the primaries are: 1. If they ask for too much in the other players (such as Jo-Jo) 2. If you can get a legit pitching prospect for Salty
The only pitching I’ve heard that MIGHT be available that I’d see as worth trading Salty for is Ian Snell, but I’m not sure how serious the Pirates are about him being available.
By Tomahawkin
July 25, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this
Robdawg Da Tommy has no beef against the Phillies, I did like it however when David Justice used to refer to dem as da Philthies
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this
Excellent deduction there Stinger. You are correct. Orr & Woodward are as valuable as hub caps if the comparison is a car.
By Brian
July 25, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this
I am not really sure what to think. Getting Tex would be a great move but I think Salty could be a very good first baseman for years to come.
By parks
July 25, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this
LMAO AGAIN! now we have someone already proclaiming Salty a AL MVP in 2 years
By DHD
July 25, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
question was asked about the Braves affording the extra 15 million. They are expecting to get insurance money for Hampton’s season long injury. Also, Liberty has added to the payroll.
By Tomahawkin
July 25, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Double Deuce Ur Quote
“This is exciting stuff. Can you imagine the Braves’ lineup if Druw returned to form?”
If anyone saw A. Jones swingin last nite, it looks to me like he has reverted to his old ways, It might be another month brfore he turns it around…
By The Truth Hurts
July 25, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
Linebrink for 3 pitchers? Can they hit?
Salty is a luxury with McCann being the stud that he is…Escobar will take over for Renteria next year, after Edgar gets traded for a starter in the winter. I sincerely hope the Garland rumors are untrue—Renteria is really the heart and soul of that lineup, so long as Chipper is one misstep away from some season-ending malady/disorder/disease.
Time to stick KJ back where he belongs—at the top of the lineup.
Don’t trade a potential lefty starter (Reyes) for Tex. If Escobar is the next SS, where does Andrus fit?
Time for beer now that fantasy GM time is over.
By All Spin Zone
July 25, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this
Aaron,
I don’t think it’s a scenario of over-valuing the Braves prospects. The landscape of baseball has changed over the last few years. Salty and a mid level minor leaguer for Tex is probably about as good as the Rangers will do, especially if it’s a TEX ONLY deal.
The Rangers aren’t wrong in asking for the moon for Tex, but it seems like most teams are running away from the deal when the Rangers are asking for top pitching prospects (Phillip Hughes)
Players who are close to the majors or just starting in the majors are better identified than ever before as to what kind of real future they have. The “can’t miss” prospects of yesterday are actually turning into “can’t miss” realities! Maybe it’s better scouting, better statistical analysis, who knows.
That being what it is has made it a time when top tier prospects are harder to pry away from teams without offering anything less than a bona fide major league producer.
Although the Braves are very interested in Tex, they aren’t dealing from a position of weakness. They know if they don’t deal Salty for Tex, they can do a deal for front line pitching over the winter for Salty. That’s just a fact!
Tex has burned bridges in Texas. He’s approaching a walk year next year. The Braves and other teams know the Rangers want to move him.
A losing franchise like the Rangers can afford to deal a couple of stars for the right prospects. They haven’t won with Tex or Gagne so their philosophy may be to get a few can’t miss prospects and start over. I think that’s a good plan myself.
But… if the Rangers think they are going to clear out some other teams prospect cellar in return for Tex…. then I guess Tex will stay with Texas for his walk year next year. Any sane team ain’t gonna over pay for Tex.
Heck….. even the Yanks are exercising restraint the last couple of years and not raping their feeder system.
By Ron
July 25, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this
Aaron (Dallas) First off get YOUR mind off of JoJo Reyes, because he aint gonna be in the deal!!! What yall gonna get better for Tex and CJ Wilson than Salty, Harrison, Devine, Dan Smith, and Thorman!!! Yall aint getting nothing better than that!!! And if you do the GM should be FIRED on the spot!!! You only WISHED the Angels would give up prospects, and only wished that Boston would give you their Young Prized CF, and Bucholtz!!! Your dreaming dude!!! It is between US and the Dodgers!!! And IF the Dodgers trade for him then they would have given up WAY too much talent!!! We got the most sensible package to offer yall!!!
By BlueMoon
July 25, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this
Okay DOB, you laughed me off of here a few weeks back when I suggested that the Braves may go after Texeira. Well, you actually weren’t the only one.
BUT, I really like the deal ESPECIALLY if they can get a good lefty reliever out of it. Also, if they do land Tex look for Andruw to go. Unless they get a payroll hike, which I don’t believe anyone is expecting, then they just couldn’t afford both.
By humbug
July 25, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this
AMG
Yes they are YOUNG and MIGHT take 2-3 years to put up consistent numbers but their production already is better than our matured Woodward, Orr, Wickman, Hampton, Thorman, Soriano, et al.
I really believe that most of the posters now yelling TRADE TRADE TRADE will soon be b*** about how stupid JS is for making the trades.
By OJ
July 25, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
I’d love to stay and talk youse guys further, but me and this cute honey have got to continue our search for Nicole’s killer. FORE!!!!
By David-ATL14
July 25, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Thanks for cranking ou another blog DOB.
Stellar Work!
By Double Deuce
July 25, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin
That is the problem isn’t it? Lately he has shown flashes of his old self, but he looked bad last night. I was just looking at what a lineup would look like with the proposed trade. You have to admit it looks great on paper.
By mike
July 25, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
trade Salty for a guyn who will be gone as a free agent? we can’t afford him and it would be stupid to dump Salty
By All Spin Zone
July 25, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this
To Aaron (in Dallas)
ESPN’s Jayson Stark completely agrees with Sullivan’s assessment. He writes today that the team’s “asking price for Teixeira, Eric Gagne, Akinori Otsuka and everyone else has been so off the charts, an official of one team predicts: ‘The way they’re going right now, I don’t think they’ll make a trade — any trade.’” In related news, we wish someone would take Tom Hicks off the Rangers’ hands. —Robert Wilonsky
This was a news article from 5 days ago. Maybe things have changed…maybe not.
By Paladin
July 25, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or is there a draft in here?
By JMF
July 25, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
I am all for making the team stronger for the playoff run. However, let’s not mortgage the future for a one year run. We can build a strong team for the next 5-7 years. I miss not going to post season every year. Put together a team that has a chance to go to the playoffs for a run. If that means we do not get there this year (although I see no reason why we should not) then that is what we should dol
By Colin
July 25, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
Read for your self who might be involved in the Tex DEAL
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
By JMF
July 25, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
I am all for making the team stronger for the playoff run. However, let’s not mortgage the future for a one year run. We can build a strong team for the next 5-7 years. I miss not going to post season every year. Put together a team that has a chance to go to the playoffs for a run. If that means we do not get there this year (although I see no reason why we should not) then that is what we should dol
By Braveone
July 25, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this
John B.: I believe the Pirates would trade Snell for Salty. I am not sure I would want Snell for Salty. He has about the same stats as James so at best he is a low level #3 starter. If we made no trades except for possibly a minor trade to get some bullpen help, I would be fine with that. The major change we need now is to get Matt Diaz some starts at 1B & get rid of Thorman & possibly Franco. A mix of Diaz & Salty at 1B would work very well.
By Paladin
July 25, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
The “real” Grinch turns 50 this year. I wonder how his alter ego on this blog compares. Care to share with us, El Grincho? I know, Paladin is about 100, but so am I.
By Tomahawkin
July 25, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
Yea Double Deuce After that series in Sna Diego as well as the Homestand I thought Druw was lookin like he was gonna come out of it…But he has looked like he’s regressed and pulling off everything in the last 2 games, maybe he’s tired…
By Aaron (Dallas)
July 25, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this
Ron,
Do you speak English, or just dumbarse? The creator of this blog mentioned Tex + CJ Wilson for Salty and JoJo, not me. I was just telling YA’LL that Texas isn’t going to trade young left handed pitching to get even younger left handed pitching.
Also, if you got Tex and didn’t re-sign him after ‘08, you would end up with a mid to high first round pick (from the Rangers) and a compensatory first round sandwich pick. If Gagne was in the deal, and he didn’t re-sign, that would yield 2 first round picks as well. Essentially the trade would be Tex/Gagne (and potentially 4 first round picks or longer service time from Tex or Gagne if either/both are re-signed) for Salty/JoJo. Sorry, but that’s not even close to a fair trade, IMO. If that’s offered, the Braves should have jumped yesterday on the deal and felt good that they didn’t have to sell their souls to get the deal done.
By opie
July 25, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this
this may be better if texas would bite. thorman and escobar for tex and gagne. keep salty as a back up at catcher and first and pinch hitter. this stuff about escobar replacing reneria when he leaves makes no sense. why not resign renteria? he may be the best all around player on the team. plenty of infielders on the farm.
By parks
July 25, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
Snell is better than a low level #3, and so is Chuck.
By Bravesfanin MetsLand
July 25, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this
I would love to get Teixiera, and I think you just have to accept that salty is the main guy that would have to go. But for the love of god, Edgar has to stay. I know I’m not alone in that sentiment. I just had to type it to feel better about myself. He would be amajor player in that best NL lineup DOB was talking about. Bring on Tex, and let’s hope we can just outhit our opponents when the 4 and 5 spot in the rotation come around.
By A-ville Ranger
July 25, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
There’s a great article on Hank Aaron in this week’s SI mag,We would like to forget just how bad this town treated him during the record chase.The night he hit 751 in Atlanta the crowd(or lack of) was 1500.That was the smallest of the season.When you add the racist taunts and overall lack of respect from Braves fans at that time it’s a wonder he would have anything to do with the team now.
By Bravos
July 25, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
I love how you guys are so obsessed with what the braves are gonna do, i read this just for entertainment, if they are going to make a trade then they will, i wont worry about it til they do. it doesnt pay to speculate all that does is get u all geared up for something that may never happen. But good posts, they are keeping me from falling asleep, thanks all
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this
Yunel Escobar would be untouchable with me. When this guy develops a little more power you are looking at another Arod !
By Paladin
July 25, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this
Is there ANYTHING that has not been said, ad nauseum, about the “Tex” trade. If so, please wire it to: Paladin, SFO and I will post it. In the meantime, please read back at least 10 posts so you don’t say the same damn thing that has been said 3 times, THIS HOUR!!!
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this
I just shake my head when from the dugout Bobby calls Chipper,Franco,and Smoltz “kid” when hitting. “Come on kid”. 35 to 50 year-olds shouldn’t be called “kid”.
By Ron
July 25, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this
Aaron (Dallas) You stupid idiot!!! He never once said JoJo would be in the deal!!! He said he did not know about JoJo!!! If your gonna get on this site and call somebody else names then read EVERYTHING THAT THE CREATOR OF THIS BLOG SAID YOU STUPID PIECE OF S**!!!
By drew
July 25, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this
not to be the naysayer but Tex has put up those awesome numbers in Arlington of all places…the easiest place to hit outside of Cincy and Milwaukee…Whats he worth at the Ted? Salty easily could be the first 50 HR catcher in Arlington and one of our top prospects would just turn into Kevin Millwood or Kip Wells, you pick.
By Paul
July 25, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
If Texas is open to Texiera and a reliever for Salty and a a pitching prospect—you gotta go for it if you want to have a chance to catch the Mets and possibly go deep into October. Not to mention next year. Absolutely. It’d be an unreal trade.
By Ron
July 25, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
Aaron (Dallas) Dude why the HELL would we get a First Round pick from the Rangers? We would not you idiot!!! Not guaranteed to get a First Round pick for Gagne, we would not get a First Round pick for Gagne OR Tex if a team that had top 15 Worst records in Baseball signed them when they became a Free Agent!!! You are the STUPIDIST piece of s** on this blog!!! Learn a little about baseball stuff before you start spewing s** out you little p** ant!!!
By Haze Gray
July 25, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this
Tex is a great player but the Braves have plenty of talent. If Cox played his best nine most games, he would win more. Put Salty at first or the lefty, dump Andy Jones, and buy some pitching. Hudson is streaky, and Smlotz is getting old. Or even better, get a good, young manager. The only reason Cox has won so much is because he has been there so darn ling. I actually don’t like the Braves because they all look so nasty.
By Paladin
July 25, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this
And Aaron(Dallas) Strong message to follow from “Ron”.
By Jared
July 25, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
Whats he worth at the Ted? Salty easily could be the first 50 HR catcher in Arlington
Oh my God. Do you rose-colored glasses Saltalamacchia addicts have no shame whatsoever?
By Ron
July 25, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
Colin I read that article, I still cant believe JS would give up Elvis for Tex and and the Lefty I dont want in Ron Mahey or whatever his name is!!! If I gave up that much I would have to get Tex, CJ Wilson, AND GAGNE!!! The more and more I hear about these rumors the more I think JS is gonna get SCREWED!!! He is gonna give UP WAY TOO MUCH!!!
By TNRON
July 25, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
I really dont understand the pessimism about the trade.Yes Tex may only be with us thru 08 but folks you only have a small window to contend for a world campionship.Salty’s value is as a catcher.We have a catcher.Salty is expendable.Chipper and Smoltz are on their last legs.This is the best chance we will have.Two or three years from now when Salty’s an “all-star” we will have other holes to fill by their departure and age in other areas.I would hate to give up Andrews (Elvis) but The Braves have a deep system and excellent scouts.NOW is the time.The Mutts are primed to be passed.Go J.S.!!!!
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
What about Andruw,Kelly Johnson,and a top pitching prospect for Teixeira and Gagne ? Then the OF could be Diaz,Harris,and Francoeur (as it should already be). I’m expecting all you Kelly Johnson man-crushers to berate me now… Andruw is gone for us (pretty much) as is Teixeira for the Strangers.
By gd from NZ
July 25, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t do the Texeria deal for Salty, I still think Salty is a valuable trade piece and I would only deal him for starting pitching (OK I know starting pitching is very thin and it may take Salty plus others).
Even if I had to wait until next year I’d hold him and wait and see what develops.
I realise Tex would be a great addition and yes a great replacement for Andruw but unless it fixes the biggest need I wouldn’t do it. I think the bull pen problem is related to the starting pitching - if the starters last longer the bullpen ain’t so worn out.
Could Tex be part of a 3 team trade involving starting pitching I wonder?
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this
I’ve been wanting a new younger Braves manager for 5 years ! Bobby is like Bobby Bowden at FSU, the money and fame won’t let him retire.
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this
THIS JUST IN: Bonds out of lineup tonight after the 13 inning game last night. Chuck James has him scared.
By JasonInMaine
July 25, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
Evan grant of the Dallas Morning news is reporting that both LA teams have picked up their efforts to acquire Tex.
He also repots that the Braves are unlikely to include Jo-Jo, but are instead offering Salty, Elvis, and Davies/Harrison.
Regards,
Jason
By AMG
July 25, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
I’ll change the subject a little Paladin:
DOB - Anyone notice how old and awful the Giants are? Were they not in the World Series a few years ago? Does anyone out there care about winning baseball games anymore?
Bonds is not in the line-up… do the fans not bother showing up until the 6th inning hoping he pinch hits?
I almost feel sorry for the true baseball fans in SF.
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 25, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
As far as home/road splits for Teixeira, I’m pretty sure his OPS is evenly split. He had one year in which he hit a ton more homers at home than road, but other than that, his splits are pretty good, at least as I remember.
Good points on the hidden value of top-tier trades, though I don’t know if Gagne will be classified a Type A, since I haven’t checked his numbers. He’s also said repeatedly that he’s want to close, not set up, if he’s traded. I also agree that getting Wilson in a Teixeria trade would be thievery of a high order for Schuerholz. Daniels may want to dump Teixeira, but he’s not going to cut off his nose to spite his face.
By Ron
July 25, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
Okay guys I just got through chatting with a guy that knows alot about the Rangers and Tex!!! I asked him about what his road stats career wise looks like!!! He said this: Tex’s career splits on the road in 1508 PA are .265/.359/.492 - very good, but not elite. However, in 2007 his home/road OPS splits are virtually identical (.940 range), so perhaps he’s turned a corner.
I dont think he has turned no corner!!! But IF we can get Tex and Gagne or CJ Wilson for Salty, Harrison, Thorman, Devine, and Dan Smith then I would make the trade!!! I would NOT include Elvis at all!!! Oh yeah and that dude also said of him signing an extension ANYWHERE is slim to nil!!! So pretty much he will test free agency, and the Yankees will blow us out of the water, Even with Hampton’s contract off our hands!!!
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 25, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
Money for Tex could be available in 2009 since we will be Hamptonless, Wickmanless, and Andruwless…that’s almost $36 million there. No way he gets that much annually.
By Paladin
July 25, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
Thank you, AMG. But, it’s time for us oldsters to go to bed and leave it for these erudite wordsters. Good night.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 25, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
hoss and tex on the corners and bubba covering the games …
this journalist cannot wait.
nicknames make the player-and the journalist-and the nickname bubba seems to fit for a guy who hangs with hoss and tex.
now, baseball … it is unfortunate that the braves must give up future stars to get help now but help is needed. first base is a mess but the real mess is in the pen. does bobby not know how to use these pitchers? stength then weakness. strength again then weakness again. oh, the humanity! wicky has become a weakling.
By Jeff321
July 25, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
The Braves need to trade Bobby Cox and Bob Wickman for a decent manager.
By Matt
July 25, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
I think if we got Texiera AND Gagne, I’d be ok with giving up Salty, but only for both of them. We’ve got enough attractive prospects for the picking. Imagine this: Harris/Diaz Renteria C.Jones A.Jones Texiera McCann Francoeur Johnson/Escobar …with Gagne as THE closer
By Vol
July 25, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
What do you do, rick (9:18PM)? Maybe we’ll check your blog.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
Rick : “he just hangs around the clubhouse and stares at the players while they shower,”
Sorry Dave, but that’s funny.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 25, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
Rick
You’re forgetting Tom Martin in 2004. Uh, wait a minute…
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
It sounds like Salty Andrus and Harrison are going their way with Tex and Mahay coming back……
I don’t like it. Giving up three of your best prospects for a guy who will be a Yankee, Met, or Red Sock in 2009 and a 36 year old left handed reliever isn’t a good deal. They need Wilson in that deal. To be honest with you, I have no idea why they have to include Andrus. I just don’t see this happening. Daniels is asking for too much.
By All Spin Zone
July 25, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
I love reading the articles and columns about the potential trades. As much as I like scouring the web and reading the speculation, the fact is the press is being played like a fiddle in this yearly ritual.
So the article by the Dallas reporter says that both Cali teams have upped the ante. Maybe they have, maybe they haven’t. If I were the Rangers, I would be feeding all kinds of stuff like that to the press…… just trying to create the market. Try to bump the Braves or any other real players in a potential trade to increase their offer.
That’s what happened to Tom Hicks on A-Rod. He was bidding against himself until he bid A-Rod to 250 Mil!
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Escobar goes 4 for 4 then sits. Diaz goes 3 for 4 then sits. W.Harris goes 6 for 6 then sits. Andruw goes 2 for 50 and plays EVERY game. What a great manager…
By parks
July 25, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Robdawg06 for the 1000000000000th time, Andruw can not be traded. Yes an trading KJ would be crazy also.
By Vol
July 25, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
What do you do, rick (9:18PM)? Maybe we’ll check your blog.
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 25, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
There’s no logical reason that Andrus would be included in any trade with Texas, though that’s been thrown out in print. Texas has Young signed long-term and Kinsler at second. Andrus is probably a future star, but how does he possibly have value for the Rangers? They can’t flip him for any near-ready pitching, so how does he bring value to the package?
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
Andruw can be traded if he agrees to it.
By Bravos
July 25, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Tex and back of the rotation starter for salty, harrison, davies, and andrus
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
DOB
What are the contract situations after 2008? I think Smoltz and Chipper have contracts that are based on plate appearances(Chipper) and 200 innings(Smoltz). I know we get Renteria and Hampton off the books after next year(21 million). It would be nice to know that if we do trade for Tex, we would be able to keep him because of expiring contracts.
I hope everyone understands that the Mets, Yankees and Red Sox will be looking for a 1st baseman after 2008. Delgado and Giambi come off the books for the New York teams. Red Sox might move Youkilis to third if they feel they need the offensive boost. Just some things to think about. We sure don’t want to trade for Tex and then see him in a Met uniform in 2009. It could happen. Although I’m sure it won’t scare JS away from trading for the guy.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
July 25, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this
Well, it definitely looks like the Dodgers have upped their pursuit of Texiera. Reportedly they are offering Loney, Ethier, and a pitching prospect. That is a pretty impressive package. It is a bit mystifying as to why the Dodgers would trade away Loney when he is flat out raking but as Ken Rosenthal said Texeria would give them more power. The Angels offer is very weak when compared with that of the Braves and Dodgers.
Here is the deal. The Dodgers can get into the playoffs without Tex but the Braves most likely cannot. They have to get this guy. The Braves need to offer Salty, Andrus, and Harrison. I woould balk on Reyes. I would actually try to get the Rangers to take Davies but if not Reyes is the choice. Fact is, Harrison is still the top pitching prospect in the system.
And, yes, that trade would be worth it. People really need to stop and think. Yes, Andrus is a prized prospect but he is at least two years away. At least. The Braves have Escobar who is ready to go now and Lillibridge who will likely be ready for next season. Salty is the top prospect but Texeira gives them what they need now. Not to mention he would be here next year and the Braves would have the money to possibly sign him beyond because Andruw and Hampton’s contracts will be off the books. And, if Reyes and Davies come along like they are supposed to along with Smith Hudson could be traded after ‘08. Not to mention that Renteria should bring a decent starter in any trade this winter. And, as for Davies or Harrison they are collateral damage. Yes, either one would be nice to keep but with Texiera in this lineup the Braves have the most potent lineup in baseball!
Now, tell me that is not a potent lineup!
By Jared
July 25, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
People who like Kelly Johnson are the man-crushers? Not the people who want Yunel Escobar, the guy with the lower OBP, less power, can’t talk a walk, bad defender (fielding percentage around .950 to Johnson’s .980) with less upside at second base everyday? Dream on.
Franco in the line-up again. Count me in as a supporter of acquiring Teixeira.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
July 25, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
Actually, Hammer’d the Rangers wanting Andrus makes a lot of sense. Yes, the signed Young to an extension but Andrus wont’ be readyfor another two years, if not three. By then Young could be prime trade bait. The Rangers would be able to trade him knowing they have a SS in place. Or, the Rangers could simply use Andrus to make another deal for a pitcher or another part they need. Getting Andrus would be quite a coup for Daniels.
By Eric from MO
July 25, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this
After reading the past couple of months how great Salty is I figured everyone would be saying how this is a horrible mistake. I for one am not saying it would be a mistake to trade Salty however I am not sold on Tex. I just dont buy into anyone who plays in the Rangers stadium.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this
Andruw hitting .205 is more impotent than potent…
By Stanco
July 25, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
Salty, JoJo & Elvis for Tex=HELL NO!!! All of JS quick fixes are part of what has us in this bind now. Let’s have a long range plan with our young talent. I would rather miss the playoffs a few years to build a strong team for the long haul!
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson has injury history. Yunel Escobar will be at least twice the player Kelly Johnson will ever be. We can revisit this a few years from now when Escobar is an all-star and K.Johnson is out of baseball or at triple A.
By David
July 25, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
scheurholz doesnt make blockbuster deals anymore.
Am I just imagining the starts Tim Hudson makes?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
July 25, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this
Rick Is Right, shut the hell up!!!!!!!!
By David
July 25, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this
Yunel Escobar will be at least twice the player Kelly Johnson will ever be.
Bartender, he’s had enough.
Kelly Johnson’s approach at the plate screams long term success. I like Escobar a lot and expect him to have a fine career, but he’s not going to have the consistent .400 OBP/.875 OPS KJ will.
By Savannah Guy
July 25, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this
Monsieur: bon mot Monsieur.
Le Giants, hors concours. Le Bonds bien fait! allez ! Bravos. Vive la Bravos! ‘est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre. les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas. excusez le mot! esprit de l’escalier.
By shannon
July 25, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this
Any idea what’s going on with Sturtze? He had a rough outing in Mississippi on Saturday and hasn’t made another start since. Supposedly he was moving on to Richmond after that start, but I haven’t seen his name in any of the box scores.
By Wayne in Utah
July 25, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this
Looks like Barry is afraid of Chuckie James, huh!
Oh yeah, I would prefer to get a stud starter for Saltalamacchia, but it looks like the Braves are serious about a first base upgrade, which I totally understand.
Now, my biggest concern is that 3 years from now, 50% of you folks who are pumped about Teixeira will be talking about what an idiot JS is for making that Salty/Andrus/Harrison trade for Tex and Gagne.
Let’s get an early lead for Chuck!
By Jared
July 25, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this
I would rather miss the playoffs a few years to build a strong team for the long haul!
Life is way too short to be thinking of a five year plan to win the World Series.
By Serbok
July 25, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this
Starting pitching seems to have come around quite nicely! Watch for James to pitch into the 7th tonight. 1B and relief are obvious weakness’. If we could get Tex and Gagne I say Go for it! Salty is a catcher? I’d love him to play 1st everyday! Then go after a reliever! Cox or JS someone! Is not letting this happen. Salty/ Harrison/lillibridge/ and Thorman for both! Need to hang on to Davies due to his ML experience
By Superman
July 25, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this
Man after last nights game I dont know if I will be able to stay awake through this one. I hope the braves blow this one open early so I can get some SLEEP!
By David
July 25, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this
HUDSON WAS AN OFFSEASON ACQUISITION.
scheurholz doesnt make blockbuster deals anymore.
One of these is not like the other. Hey, I forgive you for your inaccuracy, though. We’re none of us perfect.
By chrisklob
July 25, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this
Who the HE11 dresses that guy from TBS? His suits must be from a tailor named Gambino. “Fine suits for the aspiring gangster”.
By Whoa
July 25, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
Rick, put the pipe down. You can’t afford to lose any more brain cells.
By Wayne in Utah
July 25, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
Looks like Barry is afraid of Chuckie James, huh!
Oh yeah, I would prefer to get a stud starter for Saltalamacchia, but it looks like the Braves are serious about a first base upgrade, which I totally understand.
Now, my biggest concern is that 3 years from now, 50% of you folks who are pumped about Teixeira will be talking about what an idiot JS is for making that Salty/Andrus/Harrison trade for Tex and Gagne.
Let’s get an early lead for Chuck!
By JasonInMaine
July 25, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
Actually rick, they got haren after they traded hudson…
By Mackey Sasser
July 25, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
Rick & Rick Is Right
Please Go Away
By parks
July 25, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this
robdawg06 I’m sure Andruw even though he has said on numerous occ that he will stay in ATL will have a sudden change of heart and accept a trade to the Rangers, a bottom feeder. I’m not even going to argue you on KJ b/c you seem to have no clue
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this
Both are 25 years-old. Escobar is a 5-tool player. Johnson is a 3-tool player. Hey bartender, one more before closing time please….
By Efrim
July 25, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson can’t be traded. Look at that OBP!!!!!
The guy is only 25, has a OPS 100 points higher than Francouer and McCann right now. He is very good and shouldn’t be traded.
By The Truth Hurts
July 25, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this
Missing the playoffs for a FEW years is not okay…missing them THIS year is. JS is looking at a window that is closing on the Smoltz/Chipper Era in Atlanta. Smoltz is 40 and even w/o a history of arm/shoulder trouble this fact alone means one thing: carpe diem. Chipper is 35 and everyone knows about his injury history.
When do you want to try to win? In 2 or 3 years, when Smoltz is likely to be retiring…when Chipper is gone…Hampton is gone…Hudson is gone…Renteria is gone…AJ is gone…Cox is gone…
I’ll say it again: this organization is in the position of having to make trade-offs—you know, like everyone else not named the Yankees or Red Sox or Mets.
So, do YOU want to risk a couple of pieces of the future for the chance to win NOW, or do you sit tight, hope the prospects hit, and try to hit with an entire new generation of talent, minus the guys listed above?
This team can’t make the playoffs and fail again…not before Smoltz retires, at least (imho). What is already a cruel joke would be inhumane with another NLCS or WS loss. So, whatever move is made or not made has to position this team as the favorites NOW or down the road. There can be no Tom Martin trades this year.
JS is not only responsible for the trees, but the forest, too. Some of you, who shall remain nameless, expect him to spend over-budget to fix every weakness. It doesn’t work that way. In this market, you pick and choose your battles carefully. You commit long-term wisely. You try to fix the glaring deficiencies, but you can’t predict injury or non-performance.
I would argue that the Salty/Andrus/pitcher trade for Tex/Lefty reliever is a good one. Salty is a luxury b/c McCann is a stud. Escobar is the next SS once Renteria gets traded this winter for pitching. Renteria can’t go now, he’s the heart and soul of this lineup w/ Chipper one misstep/sneeze/shaving cut away from the DL.
By The Truth Hurts
July 25, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this
Missing the playoffs for a FEW years is not okay…missing them THIS year is. JS is looking at a window that is closing on the Smoltz/Chipper Era in Atlanta. Smoltz is 40 and even w/o a history of arm/shoulder trouble this fact alone means one thing: carpe diem. Chipper is 35 and everyone knows about his injury history.
When do you want to try to win? In 2 or 3 years, when Smoltz is likely to be retiring…when Chipper is gone…Hampton is gone…Hudson is gone…Renteria is gone…AJ is gone…Cox is gone…
I’ll say it again: this organization is in the position of having to make trade-offs—you know, like everyone else not named the Yankees or Red Sox or Mets.
So, do YOU want to risk a couple of pieces of the future for the chance to win NOW, or do you sit tight, hope the prospects hit, and try to hit with an entire new generation of talent, minus the guys listed above?
This team can’t make the playoffs and fail again…not before Smoltz retires, at least (imho). What is already a cruel joke would be inhumane with another NLCS or WS loss. So, whatever move is made or not made has to position this team as the favorites NOW or down the road. There can be no Tom Martin trades this year.
JS is not only responsible for the trees, but the forest, too. Some of you, who shall remain nameless, expect him to spend over-budget to fix every weakness. It doesn’t work that way. In this market, you pick and choose your battles carefully. You commit long-term wisely. You try to fix the glaring deficiencies, but you can’t predict injury or non-performance.
I would argue that the Salty/Andrus/pitcher trade for Tex/Lefty reliever is a good one. Salty is a luxury b/c McCann is a stud. Escobar is the next SS once Renteria gets traded this winter for pitching. Renteria can’t go now, he’s the heart and soul of this lineup w/ Chipper one misstep/sneeze/shaving cut away from the DL.
By David
July 25, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
Both are 25 years-old. Escobar is a 5-tool player. Johnson is a 3-tool player.
They’re both paid to hit and field. Thus far, Johnson is hitting at an OPS clip of .876 while fielding .981. Escobar is only at an OPS of .730 while fielding .950.
And you can’t even use the excuse that he’s going to get better since you just pointed out they’re the same age.
Time to punt. That was a three and out.
By chrisklob
July 25, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
Eric from Mo: It looks like NaCly’s stats are in fact somewhat inflated playing at the Little League Field at Texas Stadium. Here are his career numbers:
Home: BA .303 OBP .379 SLG .576
Away: BA .265 OBP .359 SLG .492
I hope that it’s easy to read the numbers the way I’ve posted them.
Anyway, I think that Salty’s value is much, much greater as a catcher than a first baseman. How often do you find a guy with defensive skills like his that can hit with the power he’s got? Oh, and did I mention that he’s a switch-hitter? Power-hitting 1B’ers are commonplace. And let’s be realistic, while he is very inexperienced at first, his defense hasn’t exactly been stellar. Not to say that he couldn’t be great with experience though.
For the record, I love the guy. I met him half a dozen times or more when he played for Rome and Myrtle Beach. Very nice guy, very genuine. But, Salty needs to go. For the Braves sake and HIS sake too. With McCann signed for the long-term he’s far too valuable to be a bench-player, platoon guy or first baseman. Hopefully JS squeezes Texas as hard as he can to get as much back as possible.
For all you naysayers that don’t want to trade any talent but expect big talent back, I have one thing to say. The farm system is designed to do two things. Create new talent for the big team and develop “extra pieces” for trade to help the big team achieve its goals. Salty is great but he is an “extra piece”.
By JasonInMaine
July 25, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this
A deal obviously isn’t close…
By chrisklob
July 25, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
Monsieur, commment est-ce qu’on dit “nose-picker” en francais?
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
parks, here’s a scenario for you since you can’t think outside of the box : Andruw gets benched tonight and Cox says they are going with Harris,Diaz,& Francoeur in the OF rest of the season. Andruw will gladly want to be traded instead of ride the pine. Since he’s a free agent next year, so what if he plays 1/4 th of the season for the lowly Rangers. He’s gonna get paid next year regardless. What else do you need help with ? Kelly Johnson ? He has no arm and not much speed. He’s a pretty good player but doesn’t have the upside Escobar has.
By JasonInMaine
July 25, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
Do the braves lead the league in hitting into DPs?
By Wayne in Utah
July 25, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Welcome to Caleefornia. Today is our lucky day! Go get ‘em Chuckie!
By David
July 25, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this
when is the last time the braves made a DEADLINE BLOCKBUSTER DEAL? fred mcgriff? (yes)
Actually, it’s John Rocker for Steve Karsay and Steve Reed.(yes)
Of course, that’s not the point. You wanted to make a sweeping generalization about current Braves front office moves, which is just plain silly. We traded a 30 homer 1B for the only closer in baseball with a 100% conversion ratio within the current calendar year. That is what is known as quantifiable fact.
You should probably focus more on people who don’t know a lot more about the Braves and baseball as a whole. Otherwise, I’ll keep humiliating you, which is not really what a troll wants to have happen. You’re supposed to create chaos and take the offensive rather than absorb shelling after shelling.
Cheers.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
Hey Mr. Always Right David, Since both Kelly and Yunel are young and in their 1st & 2nd years its totally debatable about which one will be the better of the two. Neither of us has a crystal ball fortelling their futures. You think Johnson will be better and I think Yunel will be a lot better. Let’s let it unfold the next few years. We aren’t going to change each other’s opinion. I’ll respect yours and you respect mine.
By brent a.
July 25, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
rick,
Hudson had a very low salary. There was no contract “dumping.”
He was traded for fear that he wouldn’t be re-signed.
By ssiscribe
July 25, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this
Top of the evening, denizens. More late-night bloggin’ from the Scribe … hell, I feel like I’m covering sports again, sitting at the keyboard at 10:15 in the evening.
(O’B, sorry about jinxing Hank III last night. BBQ at Smith’s, on me. Least I can do.)
Now, trade rumors (noted transition from the Scribe): I for one wish this trade would go ahead and happen, because we’re ALL gonna be wiped out if we’re sitting here six days from now and the rumors still are flying.
The latest I’ve found on the Net has Salty, Elvis and either Matt Harrison or Kyle Davies going to Texas for Teixeira and lefty reliever Ron Mahay. Comes from Evan Grant, a Georgia State graduate who covers the Rangers for the Dallas Morning News, and Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports.com.
I like that deal, and I would do it in a heartbeat. We’ve talked about Tex over and over and over some more. The reliever, Mahay, is 36 years old. He’s also 2-0 on the season with a 2.15 ERA, and he’s given up just two earned runs in his past 13 games (21.2 innings). Veteran guy who has put up some good numbers (3.93 career ERA). Has worked 37.2 innings this season (26 games), so he definitely would be a fresh arm to put into the mix down there. And, he’s a veteran lefty, which is sorely needed.
Also like the fact the Braves are talking Elvis, who is two to three years away, and not Lillibridge, who may be ready by the end of next year. Also like the fact the Braves are talking Harrison or Davies and not Jo Jo Reyes or Dan Smith. If the Rangers say OK to it, pull the trigger as quickly as possible.
Now, life (deep transition from the Scribe): Life, as we all know, is short. When opportunity knocks, it’s best to answer the door. It doesn’t come by too often. I think the Braves have an opportunity to make themselves the frontrunner for the division title if they trade for Tex and a reliever. I think they have to do it.
I’ve read a lot of the responses on here, and I’ve really dived into the ones that don’t want to make the deal. Here’s the way I tried to explain it to my best friend tonight, and the way I would explain it to the denizens who say no to the Salty/Tex deal. The Braves are loaded for next year, minus Andruw. If they want to keep Renteria, they can do so. KJ will be either at second or in left. Escobar has to be playing somewhere everyday, so it’s either second or short (or third, if Chipper gets hurt).
If Chipper is healthy, he’s at third. Frenchy is in center and Brandon Jones is in right, or Frenchy is in right and Mike Cameron (possibily) is in center. McCann is behind the plate. Your rotation is Smoltz (if healthy; gotta throw that out there with Hoss and Smoltzie), Hudson and James, with Reyes, Carlyle, Cormier and either Harrison or Davies competing for the final two spots.
In the bullpen, you have Soriano, Moylan, Yates, Paronto, possibly Wickman (if he doesn’t retire), Gonzalez by mid summer hopefully … you get the idea. This isn’t going to be a 73-89 team next season. The players mentioned figure to have this team in contention in 2008.
If you trade Salty for Tex, you’re not totally going for broke this year and you’re not damning the torpedos and going full steam ahead in 07 and not worrying about 08. You’re going to have a really good team next year.
But if you do trade Salty for Tex, you’ve got a chance to push this team to the forefront of the National League right here and now, with two months left, with the Braves just one game out of the wild card at the beginning of the day, just three games off the division lead at day’s beginning.
Make the trade. Seize the opportunity. So many teams have to mortgage their futures to make a World Series push. The Braves don’t have to do that. So, make the trade, bolster your chances of getting to the Series this year, and know when 2008 begins, you have a great chance to contend for the Series as well.
Now, salary (more transition): DOB, help us out, bro. A lot of us are wondering about salaries for 2008, who comes off the books after 08 (Wickman if he indeed plays next year, right? Hampton? Renteria?). It seems to me, while there are Braves who will get substantial raises in the next two years (Smoltz and Hudson come to mind; McCann’s deal really doesn’t jump until 09 or 10, right?), it seems there will be some room for the Braves to make a big offer to Tex to sign a long-term deal. And remember, Tex is just 27. He’s entering the prime of his career. I say you go get him.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By Superman
July 25, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
legit substantiation????
wtf thats why they are rumors and Highly doubt Dob would making up rumors I mean whats the point? Your ramblings make no sense whatsoever!
By chrisklob
July 25, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
The Truth Hurts, I agree with your 10.17. Not to nitpick but, I think you may have gotten things backwards in your first sentence.
I get the feeling with this team that they could go a long way in post-season play. Yes, there are holes but if some, or all of them are fixed they can do well going down the stretch. If everyone (and yes AJ, I’m talking to you) can play to potential and stay healthy I really like our chances. Our main competition is the Mets and they have problems too. Even if the Braves can’t win the east they’ve got a great shot for the wild card. Recent history has shown us that it doesn’t matter if you’ve got a front row seat or a general admission ticket it doesn’t matter, just so long as you get into the game. Look at last year’s Cardinal team. They had 83 wins and weren’t nearly as good as most of the AL playoff teams. They just happened to get hot at the right time.
JS, I know you’re working the phones. Don’t let us down. While you might not have the money you used to have, you have plenty of tools to get things done.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
Haren was traded by the Cardinals for Mark Mulder.
By parks
July 25, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
robdawg again LMAO! First would Cox do that? no. Would the Rangers take on Andruws salary to rent him for a 1/4 of the season for Tex? no. Congrats that you can think outside the box, b/c you obv can not think straight. I know this is hard for you to understand, but every GM’s job is not to make the Braves better.
By Beau Vighn
July 25, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this
I think the braves would be fools for trading Salty. Bobby has cast his lot with Franco it seems at 1st base. I like Julio as much as the next guy but he is 4-22 since joining the braves. Why not make Salty your 1st baseman and live with it. He is going to be a super start in this league. Booby must be smoking some of that stuff he is growing on his farm if he thinks Franco is a better player than Salty. If they trade Salty I will never go to another braves game again.
By David
July 25, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this
david, i have lost all patience with you.
Yeah, that’s generally what happens when a person gets embarrassed like you have been.
karsay and reed blockbuster?
Indeed. We traded our closer to pick up a closer and a setup guy from another team. Try and find another recent example of that. Oh wait, you have no awareness of recent baseball history, so that’s asking far too much of you.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this
It would be nice to have LaRoche at 1B about now. The Gonzalez trade looks bad since he got hurt.
By fastasballs
July 25, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
Rick, Exactly what is DOB making up? He’s usually right on most things I see him report. I disagree with some of his opinions, but we know what opinions are like.
For the most part this is one of the first times DOB has really mentioned a trade involving Tex. There is wild rumors flying on every baseball site & blog in regards to the Salty for Tex trade. So what is DOB saying that isn’t being said elsewhere?
Usually when JS makes a big deal, he stays tight lipped, but the last so-called “blockbuster” involving McGriff was 10 years ago. This would be JS’ first blockbuster of the information age so I doubt any multi player deal can remain a secret for long.
By David
July 25, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
Since both Kelly and Yunel are young and in their 1st & 2nd years its totally debatable about which one will be the better of the two.
It certainly is. At this point, all we can do is study the empirical data available and at the moment, it’s not even close. Yunel Escobar is a fantastic lasher who has no real holes in his game. Kelly Johnson is a damn near perfect table setter, because he has incredible plate discipline as well as speed and pop.
By MurphyRules
July 25, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
If we don’t trade for Tex, who do you all suggest play first base for the next year and a half - Thorman, Franco, Salty?
Thorman can’t hit, Franco’s approaching Social Security and Salty is a risk playing anywhere but behind the plate. (And I don’t want to hear any arguments about how easy it is to learn first base. Did you all not see Woodward last night?)
Tex isn’t just a fix for this year but could be for a long time. After Andruw leaves, we can sign him long term and maybe go after Torii Hunter or a cheaper center fielder during the winter. (And, no, Willie’s NOT the answer out there.)
By brent a.
July 25, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this
At 7:00, it was stated on ESPN radio that “ESPN had heard” that the Dodgers were no longer pursuing Texeira.
1 report, almost 4 hours ago.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this
The Rangers would trade for Andruw for the rest of the season if they knew could resign him (hint,hint negotiate a deal). Again, you aren’t thinking outside the box. If they can sign Arod for $250 million they can afford Andruw (who is still relatively young) if they wanted to.
By David O'Brien
July 25, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this
I think I saw Legit Substantiation open for The Replacements once, in Kansas City in the 1980s….
By fastasballs
July 25, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this
Well it’s good to see James on pace to throw 100 pitches in 5 innings, just what the pen needs.
By chrisklob
July 25, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this
MurphyRules you said: Did you all not see Woodward last night?
I couldn’t stay up that late but I saw the highlight of Woodward plunking Bonds in the back on the throw to second base. I ROFLMMFAO!!!! As much as I dislike him as a player I would definitely buy him a beer if I ever saw him in a bar. What puzzles me is how the he11 did he miss that huge head?
By David
July 25, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
FWIW, if we don’t trade for Teixeira, I am all for the full time conversion of Saltalamacchia at 1B. In fact, I am not convinced that Tex will be significantly better than Salty for the entirety of next season. Of course, I am wildly biased here since I’ve been watching Salty for three full seasons now. As a fan, I’m attached.
I’m rooting for the Braves to hold pat though I understand the appeal of the trade being discussed.
By Superman
July 25, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
A good website to check rumors is prosportsdaily
It compiles all of the days news articles from various newspapers and such. It is actully how i found this blog back in the off season.
By parks
July 25, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
robdawg WHICH THEY COULD DO AFTER HE BECOMES A FREE AGENT FROM ATLANTA! If they could afford to sign him, why would they trade for him? They are bottom feeders. Please try try to think about this. Once again you have no clue. I am done with you
By brian
July 25, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
I can understand packaging Salty for Tex, but NO WAY DO I TRADE SALTY, ANDRUS, and HARRISON/REYES for him. Give me a break. Our top two position player prospects plus our top pitching prospect??!!! All this for a player for 1 year and 8 weeks???
If Tex plays well for the Braves what do you think will happen next? Remember JD Drew? Steve Miller? “Take the money and run” Is exactly what he will do.
We will be watching the Rangers with Salty at C, Andrus at SS, and Harrison or Reyes as a LHP starter cursing JS for making the trade.
NO THANK YOU. Hopefully JS can get more creative than that. If the Dodgers really will give up Loney, Ethier, and a top pitching prospect let them.
By jt
July 25, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
Just a follow up on Texeira. Not only is he from Ga. Tech, he is married to a Georgia girl from my hometown (Clarkesville, Ga….just south of Helen, Ga. for those of you who don’t know where Clarkesville is!) I’m sure that would also draw him to the Braves for a long time if possible!
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
I’ll give you credit, parks. You are right. Cox won’t bench Andruw like he should do. He will let a .205 hitter (Andruw) play instead of a .315 hitter (Harris or Diaz, take your pick).
By Billy, The Blogger Formerly Know as Billy
July 25, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
I think something else is brewing with Salty. There seems to be too much info about the the trade talks. Have we ever heard this much info about a trade J.S. has ever made? This might be Texas and Atlanta playing each other to drive up the market for both their players. The Rentiria deal had a lot of talk but that was 12-24 hours before the trade.
I would’nt mind the deal Salty for Tex but don’t see the real value in including ANY of our young pitchers to include Davies.
By MurphyRules
July 25, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
David, what don’t you understand: Texeira (Gold Glove) vs. Salty (catcher who’s hardly ever played first base).
Just forget about the offensive side, which Tex wins too. On the defensive side, it’s an Anna Nicole Smith-sized advantage to Tex.
By David
July 25, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this
david, how did i get “embarrassed?”
That’s a deeper, more metaphysical question than I can answer. I’m a total stranger, after all, just one who made an easy read on you being a fraud.
yeah david, you got me.
I know!
By MurphyRules
July 25, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this
Hey, Rick. Did the AJC deny you a job or something? What a class act you are! Why don’t you reveal your real name and address instead of hiding like a PU**Y and slinging insults.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this
David, you are dead wrong on the definition of a blockbuster trade. That type of trade involves superstar and impact players. Karsay and Reed are not even average MLB players (they weren’t then either). Rick is right on this issue.
By David O'Brien
July 25, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this
The more people I talk to here, including those with insight into the other teams involved in the Teixeira pursuit, the more I hear the Braves are the leading contenders for him. Which is why it won’t happen (just kidding; well sort of).
Elvis Andrus’ name keeps coming up, and the Braves would definitely trade him as part of the package if it got the deal done. I don’t think they’d do Jo-Jo, though. Maybe Harrison, but not Jo-Jo — a potential top-of-rotation lefty, they’d be a bit crazy to move him, in my opinion.
If they could do something like Salty-Elvis-Harrison for Tex-Wilson or Tex-Gagne, that’d be a good deal, in my view. And the Braves would be in the driver’s seat for the division title, without sacrificing their top pitching prospect. They can afford to move Elvis, because Escobar has clearly shown he can be a very strong SS for years after Renteria’s gone.
Elvis, while defensively spectacular, still hasn’t hit.
By JasonInMaine
July 25, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this
Salty sure has left a lot of men on base in the last couple of weeks…
By David O'Brien
July 25, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
You guys will like this: Scott Olsen’s already given up seven runs tonight in Arizona, and the Marlins writers are saying, “Tasered in Aventura, lasered in Arizona.”
(Olsen was tasered by the cops when arrested last week in Aventura, where he lives in South Florida).
By BossLady
July 25, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
What is the deal with Scott Boras? He represents the best from the few I know he represents. I only know Beltran, Andruw and now Tex. Everyone kidding yourself, Andruw will make money if not with the Braves. Is having Boras as an agent hurting these players? Know it all Joe Simpson, just said that no one wants to deal with Boras. This is America and all citizens are allowed/required to capitalize in their field. I think Boras if fortunate to land the Big players and make as much money as he can until he cannot make anymore. Most of the “Truly Wealthy” made their money through illegal sources ie. murder, drugs, bootlegging, organized crime and the most heinous of the world’s despicable crimes. If this man represents athletes and makes money what is the problem?
By The Grinch
July 25, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
Wow. Our bullpen’s hatin’ it. Chuck may have to throw 175 or so to go 7. I wish we could go ahead and make this trade; we may need two or three new bullpen arms before it’s all said and done. I’d hate to give up Reyes and I know Andrus is a prime prospect, but we can’t play Andrus, Lillibrige AND Escobar so we might as well fill a need. One could argue Salty would be a smarter bet than McCann to be our catcher of the future, but that won’t happen so he might as well go to fill a need (and no, I’m not a McCann basher; I think he’s fantastic). I hope Cormier’s really coming back this time, though it sounds like he’s one of the ones Bobby doesn’t like for whatever reason which means he probably won’t pitch and be traded for someone like Ledezma (who can’t pitch, but doesn’t offend Bobby).
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this
Well, I guess they can change their name to the Texas Catfish since they bottom feed ?
By David
July 25, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this
**David, what don’t you understand: Texeira (Gold Glove) vs. Salty (catcher who’s hardly ever played first base).
Just forget about the offensive side, which Tex wins too. On the defensive side, it’s an Anna Nicole Smith-sized advantage to Tex.**
I will willingly cede that this is true right now; however, anyone who has read Moneyball knows where I’m heading with my reply.
The proverbial “Pickin’ Machine”, Scott Hatteberg, said that the transition from C to 1B went so well, because it allowed him to display athleticism he hadn’t shown behind the plate. If the Braves can spend the entire winter making first Brian Giles then Kelly Johnson become acceptable 2B, I see no reason to believe they couldn’t do the same with Salty at 1B.
The reality is that budget is an issue with the Braves. So, having a player whom the organization controls financially for the next three years plus another three (or two?) in arbitration in lieu of paying one $16 million a year is an important criteria. If we keep Salty and Escobar, we would have that at five out of eight starting positions (including Frenchy, McCann and KJ) for the next few years. All of those savings could go into pitching along with the occasional splurge. It would be a huge benefit for the team.
Teixeira, on the other hand, is only a deal that helps us for 18 months. So, if we don’t win a world championship in those two seasons, the opportunity cost will have proven too high. I fully understand why others want him, but this is why I am not excited about the prospects of the rumored deal. That changes if JS finds a way to get Texas to throw in Gagne, though.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
So Dave O’Brien, who do you think will have the best career between Kelly Johnson and Yunel Escobar ? These fans here try to read into the platoon of Escobar and K.Johnson as if they are equals. They may be right now. But Escobar has the brighter future no doubt.
By David
July 25, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this
Karsay and Reed are not even average MLB players (they weren’t then either).
This reply demonstrates an unfortunate short term recollection rather than a broad range perspective of Braves baseball. Braves fans who were using the internet at the time will remember Rocker/Karsay as being one of the most controversial deals the team ever made in the JS era. In fact, when that trade was announced, it was considered a massive deal, one which many diehard Braves fans were irate about.
Karsay had never closed before, so when we dealt a guy striking out 10 guys per 9 innings, people on an early iteration of this very forum (AJC had message boards back in the day) exclaimed that we had given up too much in giving up a proven closer for a potential one as well as a frontline setup guy. Karsay wound up being a middling closer for us who pitched brilliantly for us in the playoffs (he was 1-1, but he had an ERA of 1.69 in that time frame for us) while Reed provided exactly the rubber arm we needed down the stretch.
And I say again that if you want to question the amazing nature of this trade, simply find another example where teams swapped closers with one giving up their best setup man in the process. It just doesn’t happen in baseball. If you think Atlanta dealing Wickman and Soriano for JJ Putz wouldn’t be a blockbuster, we’ll agree to disagree and that this is exactly the type of trade Karsay/Reed/Rocker was.
By Blake
July 25, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this
Would everyone be happy if Salty turned into a .300 hitter with 30 HR? I think so. There is no reason not to deal him with that value coming in return. Elvis is of no real use in the future for Atlanta. Maybe elsewhere. Don’t be so sure that the Braves couldnt resign Tex if they wanted to. Remember Hampton, plus this ownership has given every indicaion that they will do what is necessary to keep this team competitive.
By David O'Brien
July 25, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this
You won’t believe the other rumor I heard this afternoon, got a call from a New York reporter who heard from someone with the Yankees that the Braves had inquired about … are you ready? … Johnny Damon.
Hey, I never completely discount anything, but didn’t think this one made enough sense to print or put in the blog, not without getting some Legit Substantiation. I mean, Holy Cornelia. Johnny Damon?
By David
July 25, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this
i’m done with you.
Yeah, it’s smart of you to run away. There’s only so much embarrassment anyone can take. You’ll know to duck me next time, so at least it was a learning experience for you.
By Savannah Guy
July 25, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
Where do these twisted little twirp-trolls like rick come from and what the hell are they trying to prove? Why do they get off on this? Sick. Probably had their feelings hurt at some point for being jerks on the blog so they come back with a new moniker and swing away. Brave aren’t they? Really stand up for themselves. Pathetic. Sorry for even bringing it up. Couldn’t help it.
By Braves Fan 79
July 25, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this
I would give up salty before escobar. Escobar is a VERY valuable backup who allows us not to have to start woodcrap in chipper or edgars place. Any trade for tex and gagne….i would do as long as it dosent involve jojo or escobar.
As i said days ago….we have to sweep this series to keep pace with the mets. Good catch francour!
By Josh C
July 25, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this
There once was a boy named Rick On the blog showed himself as a pr!ck. He spoke like a fool, Uncontrollably drooled, As he typed with one hand on his d!ck.
Oh the blog made him feel like home, As he got the respect of a gnome. He just wasn’t that bright, But he babbled all night, As he prank called little boys with his phone.
Now folks have started to shout, “Hey DOB kick his arse out!” We’re sick of his crap, And the lonely young sap, Just wet his Momma’s new couch.
By robdawg06
July 25, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this
David, you are grabbing at straws. There’s no way trading for Karsay and Reed was a blockbuster trade. It was just a regular trade. Blockbuster trades involve numerous superstar players. You just got your 6th foul and it was intentional !
By TennesseePaul
July 25, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this
Renteria is starting to pick some that he wasn’t getting to earlier this year. I like this.
Gittum Chuck James!
GO BRAVES
By The Grinch
July 25, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this
jt, I was born in Clarkesville (Habersham County Hospital). I only lived there ‘till I was 4, but I love that area. Like to rent a cabin up at Unicoi Stae Park every now and then.
DOB, you don’t think Captain Caveman would fit in our outfield? I expect Bobby would let him grow his hair back out.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
July 25, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this
How hard do you think the Rangers are lobbying for A-Rod to opt out of his contract with the Yankees? Would free up about 8 mil a year they are paying on his current contract.
Sigh, really tough to find good announcers these days isn’t it?
By David
July 25, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this
David, you are grabbing at straws
You’re just not showing a sense of Braves history. Or baseball, for that matter. How often do we see guys with ERAs of 1.2 get dealt? Much less in a deal with another solid pitcher for an infamous closer?
That trade was debated for several years afterward. Those are always blockbuster deals. It even exceeds the McGriff one in that all three players made their mark at the major league level. With Nieves and Elliott petering out, only Esteban Yan, the A-ball throw-in (!), worked out on the other side.
I’m not discussing the theoretical. I was here to debate that one just like I’ll be here for the next blockbuster we pull off. PS: I was pro-Karsay. It still bothers me we let him walk after the season.
By BossLady
July 25, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this
Well you know there are people that feel that they should get attention and cannot accept that this blog is a way to express thoughts. They believe that if they address DOB then he must respond to them personally. Those types need their opinions to be validated. So, when they don’t get what they want they “go off”. Since blogging is just that blogging. Rich Aurilia is my friend but he hurt us last night and now again tonight. I will have to get on him in Florida. Not really get on him but let him know that the Braves are my team and go easy.
By chrisklob
July 25, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this
Would someone please call 911? I think someone’s about to receive a well-deserved “high, hard one” from DOB!!!!
By BosnianBaller
July 25, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
Great article I would definetly do it. I have seen C.J. pitch for texas and he is very solid pitcher.
By fastasballs
July 25, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this
Well James gave the Braves the usual, slightly better if compared to his ERA for the season. He’s never going to get deep into games until he developes a third pitch.
The Braves just can’t handle a lefty very well. They are impatient as a team. Way too many first pitch swings or Lowery is out of the game by now.
By MurphyRules
July 26, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this
Wow! If Chip were to get his pick of any player in the majors to build his team around he’d go with Ichiro and Papelbon.
Does this guy know ANYTHING about baseball?
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this
Johnny Caveman raises the bar of everyone around him. He is clutch and relentless. I’d say yes. Hell yes.
I’ve gotten so jaded watching our boys go in mini slumps between bashing, that I don’t know if Cy Young Lowry is on the mound for the Giants tonight or if it is just batting-biz as usual.
Woody get a hit or Woody not. That is not the question anymore.
By geauxbraves2000
July 26, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this
Where has the offense gone? Oh yeah, LHP, sorry, my bad.
Geaux Braves!!
By Braves Fan 79
July 26, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this
Man one thing i never wanna hear in my life again is: “common woody” damnit Bobby…the mans a .160 or so pitchitter. Hes only worth anything if he A: gets hit by a pitch, B: gets a lucky bunt down, or C: if he gets the other players water. Besides that hes pretty much useless. This team would be so much stronger if we got someone rally fast that sucked at everything but running fast to use as a pitchrunner in crucial situations. That would be MUCH more valuable than woodcrap. I wonder if former worlds fastest man Michael Johnson is available?
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this
I feel bad for Woodward, Cox is screaming “Come on Woody” at him while at the plate. Cox obviously is forgetting where the game is being played or he may have broken out a new nickname for Woodward instead of “Woody”. The Braves may pick up an entire new fanbase in San Francisco if this keeps up.
On another note Woodward got the fattest pitch he’s seen all year & was a mile out in front of it.
By BossLady
July 26, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this
Nah Murphy, this is nepotism in progress. Harry, Skip & now Chip
By KC
July 26, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this
My God… Tex and Gagne?!
Let’s hope so!
That trade would instantly make the Braves the best team in the NL (barring major injuries)… hands down. Particularly if they didn’t give up Reyes in the process (since he is now the 5th starter).
By MurphyRules
July 26, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this
Does anyone else think Andruw is actually worse now than he was a month ago? What’s with his three check-swings per at-bat? He looks like Sergio Garcia up there.
By DirtyDawg
July 26, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this
Would somebody please break into the broadcast booth and throw Chip Carey over the side? That guy drives me crazy with his inane crap about who would you pick to start a franchise…who the hell cares about pitchers from thirty years ago in the middle of a close game. I get the impression that Simpson would do the deed if he thought he could get away with it.
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this
chrisklob, I think it’s gonna be a bean-ball thrown tonight. Not sure 911 would even help.
By KC
July 26, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this
It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Braves give up another top-notch piece (other than Salty) to get Gagne included in a deal.
They would really like to solidify the late-inning situation this year. And obviously “Plan-A” for the closer next season (Mike Gonzalez) was blown out of the water. So they could really use Gagne.
DOB: Have you heard anything about the Rangers willingness (or unwillingness) to part with Gagne? Would they?
By heath
July 26, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this
rediculously horrible performance tonight. still say we don’t need tex at 1st base? there have been countless times that if the braves would have gotten just one more hit….
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this
That was one disgusting 8th inning…leadoff single followed up by two strikeouts on a total of 6 pitches, followed closely by the obligatory Andruw Jones pop-up. How about a sacrifice to move Escobar into scoring position?? How much longer are we going to go with not having a third catcher, too??? It is killing the ability to have McCann or Salty pinch hit late in a game. This team really is in disarray. Playing with only two catchers for how many weeks now???? Why is Pena still in Richmond???
I am looking forward to Jeff Francouer leading off the 9th by hacking at the first pitch.
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this
Once again the starter pitched well enough to win, but the offense can’t make it happen. Lowery really made Chipper & Edgar look foolish so I’d say he’s much better than the usual lefty that baffles this line up. He’s looks to be a more effective Chuck James, but with a little more control of his game.
Hopefully that was Lowery’s last inning. If the Giants plug a righty in I would feel a lot better about getting a run. If anyone can reach McCann, Johnson & Harris is on the bench so there is no need for Julio to bat, but I’d bet he does regardless of the situation, well if they get a baserunner.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this
anyone notice the mets and phils are taking care of business at home against teams they are supposed to beat? gotta really start worrying about whoever loses the central the cubs or the brewers earning the wild card. their late august and sept. schedules are going to be much easier than say the braves or padres.
By Double J
July 26, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this
I say if we pull off the deal for Tex and a reliever we could go get wily mo pena for almost nothing since boston is trying to unload him. He could replace andruws bat next year in the lineup. Just a thought, just thought I would share, but the first priority is the deal with the rangers.
By chrisklob
July 26, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this
Savannah Guy, the beanball is what I’m hoping for!
By Braves Fan 79
July 26, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this
This is gonna suck if it ends up our last scoring opportunity we sent woodcrap up to hit. Wheres….insert any other player on the bench….including pitchers….. but WoodCrap!??? Im tellin u…he was sent by the mets to sabatoge our season. Wilson looks like a allstar compared to that guy.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this
Pretty g’damn sad that we are going to lose another game due to the complete inconsistency of this lineup. This game has been another study proving that the Braves need a bat.
Also, it will be nice to lose to a Rich Aurilia HR. What, does he have 3 all season????
And Franco starts at 1st again. I cannot believe that a team supposedly contending for a division title picks up a 48 year old guy off of the scrap heap and he has now started 5 out of 6 games.
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this
Is it not obvious that this offense needs another bat in it. Texiera would fit the bill. Lets face facts. Thorman is a bust as of right now. Franco isn’t going to get it done. He’s 4 for 23 for God’s sake. Would he serve a purpose on the bench? Yes. Especially if got rid of Woodward. Man, what useless waste of space that guy is. Anyway, the Braves have to get a 1B. Yes, this team could use another starter but lets just be honest about it. Nobody…NOBODY is giving up quality pitching during the season. If it takes Salty, Andrus, and Harrison to get a guy that can hit 40+HR; 120 RBI; and .300 AVG then by all means make the damn deal. Make it now! Salty is a kid. Tex is a young stud with experience. Andrus is a great prospect but is at least two years away. Harrison is another great prospect but is not going to help this team this year and probably wouldn’t crack the rotation next year either. The Braves have got to make this deal before the Dodgers take leave of their senses and make the deal they have proposed.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this
anyone notice the mets and phils are taking care of business at home against teams they are supposed to beat? gotta really start worrying about whoever loses the central the cubs or the brewers earning the wild card. their late august and sept. schedules are going to be much easier than say the braves or padres.
By KC
July 26, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this
Salty, Lillibridge, Matt Harrison, J.Devine, and Thorman…
For: Tex, Gagne, Mahay
That’s the move I’d love to see.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this
gotta hit mcann if salty fails here. dont care if he is the only catcher left.
By Braves Fan 79
July 26, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this
Damnit salty! u cant see the guy standing up behind u!!???
By KC
July 26, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this
It looks like the Braves could add some offense, and they’ll almost certainly add a bullpen arm.
It doesn’t look like a starter is anywhere in the works, but honestly… I think that’s okay if the Braves can solidify and deepen the bullpen.
Chuck James seems to be back in the form he showed us last year, and is pitching like a very capable number-3 starter. Sure, he’ll only give you 6 innings a start, but if the bullpen’s deep and the rest of the starters are doing their job (so as not to tax the pen), that’s not a problem.
And Carlyle and Reyes appear to be a nice combination at the bottom of the rotation. The jury’s still out, particularly on Reyes, but it looks good so far.
Add Tex and a little bullpen help, and I think the Braves will have a chance to make some noise in October.
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 12:45 AM | Link to this
No salt. No pepper. No mas.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 12:45 AM | Link to this
DOB Any end of the game announcements coming?
By gobraves39401
July 26, 2007 12:45 AM | Link to this
Yep,ship is headed in the wrong direction.An average team at best right now.
By gobraves39401
July 26, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this
Yep,ship is headed in the wrong direction.An average team at best right now.
By Stuart
July 26, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this
Bad loss tonight, but at least Lowry is a legitimate pitcher. This team is so maddening sometimes. One night they cant pitch, the other they cant hit, some nights they do both, some nights they do neither. Had a game tonight they should have won and blew it and now have to deal with one of those young pitchers that give us fits the first time we see them. This series is looking like another case of the braves taking one step foward and two steps back.
By gotigers72
July 26, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this
60 games left, 4 games out. HE double hockey sticks yes trade for Teixeira IF all it involves is Salty and 1 pitching prospect. I am writing this while in a foul mood. 3 reasons why I don’t feel the Braves will make the playoffs, especially if the trade is not done.
1 - They continue to not do the “little” things well. Absolutely horrible at getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Tonight Francoeur grounds into a double play. Then Salty swings at a nose high fast ball and fails to get Frenchy in. Then KJ swings at ball 4. It’s always a double play, strikeout or pop up. They have to be one of the worst if not the worst team in the NL in that statistic. Also bunting. Chuck put down a pitiful bunt which led to a double play on the ground ball by Yunel. The bunting overall has been okay, but playoff teams are better than okay in bunting and getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs.
2 - The bullpen is going in the dumper. Since Wohlers and Rocker, the Braves have not had a power arm [except for Smoltz of course]. You need a power arm to close. I thought Soriano had that, but has not lately. Closers that pitch to contact are too unreliable. Get somebody that can strike people out and sit Big Bob down. He ain’t getting it done.
3 - BC continues to bat a .213 hitter cleanup. Does he want to lose or something? How much you wanna bet that if the Braves do get Teixeira, the .213 hitter stays at cleanup. I’ll bet he does. I don’t care how good he plays defense, and he is a great centerfielder, I’ll be glad when he’s gone so BC won’t even be tempted to hit him 4th.
By geauxbraves2000
July 26, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this
Well, at least the blowpen didn’t lose the game.
Could’ve used one or two more hits tonight. There has to be someone out there in trade land that JS can pull the trigger on. A 1st baseman perhaps, and maybe a reliever. If only the Braves had a decent prospect or two to offer.
Oh well. Let’s get ‘em tomorrow, 3 out of 4 is quite acceptable.
Geaux BRaves!!
By HP
July 26, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this
I can’t believe we loss this game. We leave a lot of runners on the base everyday. We can’t even get runner from third with one out. This is really terrible. If we gona keep doing this, then are chance of making playoffs are going to be slim. So please JS do everything you can do to help this team immediately.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 12:50 AM | Link to this
Another f’ing leadoff double stranded on the basepaths. Another loss to a horrible team. Look at that Giants lineup tonight…an absolute disgrace, barely Major League quality. They had enough to beat this team, though. Granted, Chuck James throws too many pitches, but that is basically 4 straight starts where this vaunted Braves offense, that does not need an All-Star caliber switch-hitting 1B according to some, has completely let Chuck down. He could have 12 wins right now.
Terrible at-bat by Salty, by the way. TBS showed him hitting .171 with RISP before the strikeout.
4 games back. It is slipping away. Hello Homeboy Upstairs, get on the horn with the Rangers PLEASE.
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 12:50 AM | Link to this
chrisklob: It’s called the IT-Beaner. A well deserved one.
I’m calling it a night. We’ll get’em tomorrow.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 12:51 AM | Link to this
salty and kelly both strikeout on balls out of the strikezone. SHOCKER. LAST FOUR LOSSES ONE TO CINCI, TWO TO THE CARDS AND TONIGHT ALL GAMES WE SHOULD OF WON, OR AT LEAST SPLIT. andruw does not figure it out soon really wont matter what moves we make.gotta start getting the longball from someone other than chipper.
By GSU-Lee
July 26, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this
Can we kidnap Julio so Bobby can’t start him everyday?
By Ron
July 26, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this
I agree with KC’s 12:36 post!!! I just still would not trade Elvis!!! That would be the holding point for me, and might be for JS!!! Lets remember that the Rangers really want Elvis, they tried to sign him a few years ago, but he signed with the Braves instead!!! It came down to the Braves and Rangers, and he chose the Braves!!! They Really want him!!!
By daxxed
July 26, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this
Once again, COX cost the game. Runner on 1st and 3rd and 1 out. I DO NOT GIVE A RATS A@# who is up at bat. If it is Chipper then he needs to BUNT. If it is Andrew he needs to BUNT. If they don’t know how, then have them ask one of the pitchers. Funny they have success bunting. Now what did Frenchy do, hit into a double play. Now that is 5 games on the road that COX’s lack of bunting has not taken it into extra innings and 2 just the last home stand alone where a little bunt would have won 2 games and there were 2 other gmaes that a bunt at home would have won the game. So until COX starts playing SMART BASEBALL the Braves do not need to sacrfice the future for a rent a player. Heck we would be tied with the METS for sure if COX would have bunted in the runners at home and probably ahead of them if he would have bunted on the road. Look back at some of the losses. The baiggest inning killers were Chipper and Andrew hitting into double plays with a runner on third. But maybe I don’t know anything. Except the object of the game is to score more than the other team. Then if it requires a bunt to do that then you BUNT. Besides one out is always better than 2. Then if the buunt fails then you hit away, don’t blow a run on a double play.
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this
Why am I even surprised anymore that they can’t get a runner home from 3rd with less than 2 out?
Their outfielder saved a triple by not letting that ball get to the wall. I have no doubt Diaz would have got him home.
It’s another tough loss, can’t say they had the game because you’re not beating too many teams by scoring one run or even two for that matter.
JS has got to get Tex, he would be a difference maker, especially in these types of games. Andruw is lost once again, but for a brief few games, he’s never been found. The hits he had in last two games were bloops, just pop ups not caught or his average would be down around .208 & falling.
McCann had to sit tonight because of the previous night’s mismanaged game or maybe he was the difference, maybe not, but it would be nice to have the best line up in the game.
Edgar & Chipper can’t carry the team every night. More offense is needed or hope every lefty starter goes on the DL that the Braves may have to face.
By Eric C.
July 26, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this
There is a good chance the Braves will be 6 or 7 games back after the D-Backs series…not looking good.
By Stuart
July 26, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this
I still think that to win a World Series, the braves, even with Tex and a RP, they are still one arm short in the rotation and maybe the bully.
This trade doesnt make them champs automatically. If the braves make the proposed trade, then they have a real chance at the wild card, maybe the division but they desperately need another guy in the rotation.
Here is something that some on here have said, and I think they have a point. The braves may still be a bat short. This team scores in bunches, but really goes on long scoreless stretches. It is hard to score in bunches in the postseason.
As bad as I want to make a run at the division, facts and playoffs, fact is right now we are 4.5 out and losing ground and we are not leading the wild card race. I hope fixing this team isnt like fixing an old car, pumping money and assets only to have it break down and come up short. That would really stink.
By The Truth Hurts
July 26, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this
The problem is not so much that there are 60 games left after this lackadaisacal effort, but the margin of error is pretty small as far as the division goes. One more losing skid at the wrong time would be problematic, because then you might be looking at the scoreboard, checking out results for two games, not one.
At least the right guy beat us tonight.
Oh, you mean it’s not 2001? Nevermind.
That Giants team eats chicken pot pies at the Early Bird Special and looks about 6 months away from collecting Social Security.
They do have some pitching, though.
By Scott
July 26, 2007 1:04 AM | Link to this
You know the Braves will never be able to resign Tex so the trading Salty would be a waste.
By Stuart
July 26, 2007 1:05 AM | Link to this
In my 12:59 post, I mean another bat in addition to Tex
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this
Edgar would have bunted Escobar over, but knowing Chipper is going to be walked so they can face Andruw, he swung away.
It should be a whopping smack upside the head of Cox to see Chipper intentionally walked or pitched around to get to Andruw. Is there another team in baseball this happens to on a regular basis? Not only does Andruw kill rally after rally, but he alters the way Edgar & Chipper must go about their at bats. I know this seems like small nit picking stuff, but in a tight game they loom large.
By gotigers72
July 26, 2007 1:08 AM | Link to this
TennesseePaul - Davies has had one start at Richmond and it wasn’t so hot. He only gave up 1 run in 5 innings [somehow], but he gave up 5 hits and 4 walks in those 5 innings. He also struck out 9 which is probably why he only gave up 1 run with all of those baserunners.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 1:08 AM | Link to this
Julio Franco disgusts me. I cannot believe we have to watch another season with him as part of our 1B platoon. It was a total joke when Cox refused to play LaRoche every day. Now it is even more frustrating. This character has 2 RBIs in a meaningless situation where the Braves were leading 8-0 against the Cards. Hasn’t driven in a run since.
By Joe
July 26, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this
DOB Has Salty been called to Bobby’s office yet? JS better get this done
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this
Daxxed, I’ve seen your obsession with bunting on several blogs before & don’t understand the logic of making a guy who never bunts attempt one with runner on 1st & 3rd? You don’t put players in situations that they are not going to succeed in.
Now if you want to squeeze with a GOOD bunter at the plate, ahead in the count, then it’s not a bad play. I believe they picked up a run on a safety squeeze earlier in the week.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 1:15 AM | Link to this
It will be great when we look back this season and our big move in July turns out to be signing Julio Franco. The Mets look lost without him. He has really injected some life into the Braves lineup…it is like he is 47 again.
I would love to know whether any other team in baseball would have signed Julio if the Braves passed on him.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
July 26, 2007 1:19 AM | Link to this
DOB Have to hand it to you my man. You are one tough hombre if you can wade through the crap that is put on the blog night after night by all those folks who think the sky is falling every time the Braves lose.
Tough loss but heck, 2-1 a well pitched game. We’ll get them tomorrow. Chad looked sharp in relief.
By the way, Richmond took two tonight sweeping Ottawa. Blaine Boyer went five in the first game picking up the win.
Dan Smith is starting Thursday night in his first start since coming off the DL.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 1:23 AM | Link to this
no manager in there right mind bunts with runners on 1 and 3 with one out early in the game especially with your five hole hitter up.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 1:23 AM | Link to this
The Braves have 48 losses this season…12 of those loses have come against Washington, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cincy, and SF. Those teams are a combined 70 games undee .500.
The Mets, on the other hand, have lost only 6 games combined against the same teams.
You want to know why the Braves are 4 games out of first place…THERE IS YOUR ANSWER.
By daxxed
July 26, 2007 1:25 AM | Link to this
fastasballs
July 26, 2007 1:14 AM
If they don’t know how then the Minor League must be failing or they are not learning at Spring Training. A Team Leaders object is to win the game no matter how they do it. A BUNT scores a doube play kills the inning. It’s funny that the Mets Bunt when needed to get in a runner at third, and other teams have done it this year also. And more than 80% of the time they are sucessfl. Are you saying that the Braves don’t have the talent to BUNT. Well like I said. There are 4 home games that a bunt would have won the game. But instead COX has them hit away into inning killing double plays. You are telling me that when the Reds brought in an outfielder to make 5 infoelders and they were all playing deep. A bunt would not have cored the winning run instead of Frenchy hitting into a double play. So it sounds like your philosophy is like COX’s. Funny the team that is in FIRST the Mets, bunt in runners to win games.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 1:29 AM | Link to this
braves-dave 100% agree with last post. that coupled with their .500 home record.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 1:30 AM | Link to this
Gil, you’re right — well-pitche game on both sides. Lowry was just a little better, didn’t make a mistake like Chuck did on the homer.
But then, Julio’s ball was smoked to center. Nothing carries in this park on nights like this. Makes Bonds’ huge homer totals all the more impressive. Then again, he’s … oh, nevermind.
By the way, A-Rod hit No. 499 tonight. He’s not 32 yet (Friday’s his b-day).
Barry won’t have the record for more than six years.
Back to Lowry … a pitcher’s pitcher, a three-pitch guy who doesn’t overpower but makes good pitches when he needs them. Like when he surprised Frenchy with the fastball inside and got him to ground into the double play in the first.
He was available earlier, Lowry was. Not anymore. If he was, Giants could name their price, given the limited pitching talent on the market.
By Jared
July 26, 2007 1:31 AM | Link to this
Billy at 11:07 PM:
Have we ever heard this much info about a trade J.S. has ever made?
Remember how long we knew of the LaRoche for Gonzalez talks? We knew about it in early December, and it happened in mid-January.
It could be the Rangers leaking these Teixeira talks.
By daxxed
July 26, 2007 1:36 AM | Link to this
Facts are Facts folks. A simple bunt would have won 4 games at home that the Braves have lost. Just by buntiing in 1 run in those 4 games and the Braves would be tied for First. I even saw the Mets win a game with a runner at 3rd and 2 outs, bunting in the runner. All infielders were back deep trying to cut off the hit..
“no manager in there right mind bunts with runners on 1 and 3 with one out early in the game especially with your five hole hitter up.”
You are exactly right, and that is why the Braves are not in FIRST.
Managers that don’t get a runner in with 1 out and runner at 3rd, isn’t going to be playing in October.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 1:40 AM | Link to this
five games the braves didn’t bunnt cost them the game? what are you smoking crack. bunting has not lost games for the braves, lack of execution has.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this
Uga-dawg, you are right, the home record is a disgrace, too. But the Braves cannot continue to lose to mediocre teams. I stated earlier that this Giants lineup tonight was barely ML-quality…Aurilia, Frandsen, Dave Roberts…no Bonds. C’mon…you cannot lose this game. The Braves are 7-6 since the break against the Pirates, Reds, Cards, and Giants. Unacceptable. And it is killing their chance at the playoffs.
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 1:45 AM | Link to this
Daxxed, My philosophy regarding managing would be far from Bobby Cox, but I’m not quite management material & neither are you.
So you have seen Delgado, Beltran, Wright, Alou & Green lay down a bunt with a runner on 3rd? Please point me to the game.
This isn’t Little League, everyone is not a bunter. What you need is a team full of slashers & speed guys to see the game you want played.
To answer your question, no I don’t think the Braves have the ability to bunt well except for a handfull of guys including pitchers.
By Joe
July 26, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this
what about Renteria for Konerko then Salty and others for Oswalt
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this
well that manager you refer to managed in 14 staight octobers. name another not randolph, ceratinly not valentine, and not the self proclaimed smartest manager in baseball LARUSSA WHO ONCE TRIED TO JUSTIFY BATTING HIS PITCHER EIGHTH.
By Braves Fan 79
July 26, 2007 1:48 AM | Link to this
This makes me sick, our second to last scoring chance of the game and who pitchitts?? Woodcrap! not Harris, not Mccann. Man i love Bobby but ive been questioning him ever since he made the terrible mistake of starting Hampton in that game 5 against Houston instead of Smoltz. Another game tonight given away.
Its gonna make me sick if we finish 2 or 3 games out of the wildcard or division….because bt redmen, not calling up escobar earlier, and not realizing when relievers are cold or hot….weve given away so many games its pathetic!
By Stuart
July 26, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this
Daxxed, I see your point, but bunting just to bunt aint the answer. The braves never have played small ball really well. To play small ball well requires speed in addition to having people that bunt well, and the braves have rarely had that on the roster, and dont have it on this one.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this
common denominator in all those losses except fo the davies loss to the reds is there lack of ability to knock out mediocre starting pitchers early in the game.in regards to daxx argument about the bunt with all due respect i dont get it.
By daxxed
July 26, 2007 1:53 AM | Link to this
By uga-dawg July 26, 2007 1:40 AM
Look at this past Home Stand alone. A bunt in 2 of those games with runner on 3rd and 1 out would have won them, or at least gave another batter an opportunity to hit them in. But instead they hit into double plays, like tonight. Proof is in the record. The METS have bunted in runners to win and they are in FIRST, go figure.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 1:56 AM | Link to this
I was one of the folks pushing Noah Lowry as a possible acquisition a month ago, and so many on this blog said he isn’t enough of a power pitcher. We don’t need him.
Go ask Greg Maddux if a finesse pitcher can win a lot of games.
BTW, Chuckie looked pretty good tonight. Not bad for a #3/#4 guy.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 1:57 AM | Link to this
That’d be fine, Joe … if the Astros were trading Oswalt. They’re not.
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 1:59 AM | Link to this
Has the blog just been weird tonight or what? We’ve had drive by’s throwing insults at DOB, several other loons, a serial bunter, but no Mut fans, despite a victory by the dirt bags of Flushing.
Is there a full moon tonight?
I hope this deal with Texas gets done or pandimonium is going to ensue on the blog before the 31st.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 2:01 AM | Link to this
Everyone on this board agreed that the Braves needed to take advantage of the post- All Star break schedule. Now, the Braves are facing a right-hander with a 96 pmh fastball tomorrow and potentially staring a record of 7-7 after the break directly in the face…against two last place teams, a fifth place team, and a third place team.
Turn out the lights, the party is over. Rome burns while the Homeboy Upstairs twiddles his thumbs and Cox picks his nose.
By Coach (The Blowpen Stinks)
July 26, 2007 2:01 AM | Link to this
Time to throw some hot coffee on the blog and wake everybody up. I can appreciate all the talk about Teixeira but I must point the blog in the right direction.The Braves have scored 114 runs this month for a game AVG of 5.42 which is more than enough offense. We are 11-10 in July , four back of the Mets when the month started and we are still four games behind them. Why is that you ask ? The answer = THE BLOWPEN ! In July it is 2-5 with five blown saves and a 5.10 ERA. Our magnificent rotation is 9-5 with a 3.29 ERA this month and Thirteen quality starts to go along with 3 good starts and 5 bad ones. I said all that to say this ! The Braves should be 16-5 this month and in first place a game up on the Mets , instead we are still four back and the Phillies are all over us just one game behind. Pitching people , Freaking Pitching is what we need , not offense , P-I-T-C-H-I-N-G !!!!!!
By daxxed
July 26, 2007 2:03 AM | Link to this
By uga-dawg July 26, 2007 1:47 AM
Your so right, but during that time the Marlins, won 2 World Series and they bunted in runs, The Yankees won a few also and they Bunted in runners. And besides that was yestday, where are they today. Are you living on the past. The present is where we are now, and the Mets are a team that Bunted in runners last year, and Randolph was playing in October. And they bunt in runners this yearand here they are in FIRST. I guess bunting doesn’t work though does it.
By Caleb
July 26, 2007 2:04 AM | Link to this
DOB, from what you may have heard or what you think, if the Braves trade one of their minor league infield/shortstop prospects, between Andrus and Lillibridge, which would they prefer to hold on to? Which has the bigger upside?
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:07 AM | Link to this
Dave: I wonder how many homers Willie Mays would have hit if he didn’t have to hit in Candlestick all those years?
Early on, the park also was opened up in the outfield, and they say the wind was horrid back then.
By uga-dawg
July 26, 2007 2:10 AM | Link to this
hey dax peace we just agree to disagree
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this
daxxed: Wanting this club to be a bunting team doesn’t make it so. The team is not built around that total station to station offense. Sure, some of our guys are capable of playing that style, but many are not.
Wanting it to be is just like p!$$ing in the wind.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:19 AM | Link to this
Caleb: I would think that Andrus has the highest upside, due to the hype and the expectations. BUT, Lillibridge is said to be a real gamer. I look at him as being a possible Craig Biggio type, IF he figures it out. That is the BIG IF though…….
Not saying he is going to be as good as Biggio, but that sort of player. Andruw has been compared to several shortstops, one being our own Edgar. That’s not bad either.
It’s probably a crap shoot, although Lillibridge is probably about two years closer to being in the bigs.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 2:28 AM | Link to this
Lillibridge needs to stop stiking out so much. He seems to have a little speed and some pop, but he is K’ing too much.
Actually, if you take a look at the Braves well-known minor league prospects, currently all of them strike out too much.
By gotigers72
July 26, 2007 2:29 AM | Link to this
Seriously, how many more ML managers would continue to hit a .213 hitter in the cleanup spot night after night after night. Drives me absolutely crazy. The guy had 1 two week stretch where he was semi hot [hasn’t been smoking like Chipper or Edgar all freakin’ year], and BC continues to let him hit cleanup. Almost any other starter beside Julio would be a better cleanup hitter.
Speaking of Julio, the Braves had a .193 hitter and a .214 hitter in the lineup tonight. Yeah I know Julio smoked one, but it was an out, and truly, how many balls has he hit hard since he came back? Three, Four? Not enough to be playing every day.
Saw where the Flying Hawaiian got moved up to AA. Maybe the Braves are putting him on the fast track to play first base.
By Coach (The Blowpen Stinks)
July 26, 2007 2:29 AM | Link to this
I’ll be more concise. Our big three of Wickman , Soriano and Yates in the month of July : 27.1 innings , 24 earned runs , an ERA of 7.90 , 4 losses and 5 blown saves. Pitching , pitching , pitching , pitching , pitching , pitching , pitching , pitching , pitching !!!!!!
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 2:35 AM | Link to this
Hey Coach, the bullpen has been horrendous, but remember something else…in their 6 losses since the break, the Braves have scored only 17 total runs. Less than 3 per game. I agree that bullpen is beat, but the offense is consistently inconsistent.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:47 AM | Link to this
How do you pronounce Kala Kaaihue?
Are the Braves trading Saltalamacchia because his name is too hard to pronounce?
:-)
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:49 AM | Link to this
Does anyone out there know anything about KK’s glove work at first base???
By Bob, Journalist
July 26, 2007 3:06 AM | Link to this
Shaun, regarding your post on on our offense being as consistent as any other team … that like someone justifying their bad behavior by claiming to be no worse than anyone else.
Is the offense perfect? No … why ask and then answer a rhetorical question … perfection is an unrealizable objective.
By Bob, Journalist
July 26, 2007 3:09 AM | Link to this
Salty, I basically agree with your 3:22 but I wonder how much of the support for Barry in manufactured.
Shaun Payne,
I was only suggesting that if the Office of the Commissioner feels that its hands are tied and that the best interests and integrity of the game were at stake, then they could petition the Court or the appropriate unit (i.e. Senate Committee) within the government to consider to make a ruling or take action so as to facilitate their being able to properly address the issue(s).
Nowhere in my remarks did I suggest that should Bud ask the Government to do as you suggest … though I would suggest caution in positing what is or is not within their jurisdiction or what they would or would not do on any issue.
What does “He should have had testing in place much earlier but who knew” mean? That seems to be a rather odd statement to make … the first part posits that which the second decries.
As does “I think he did something as quick as he could, within reason”.
By Bob, Journalist
July 26, 2007 3:11 AM | Link to this
knowitall, I certainly appreciate your comments relative to my exchange with Shaun Payne and don’t directionally disagree with them.
I don’t hate it that Bonds is breaking a record if that is what he is doing.
However, methinks that those games in which he participated, after having used forbidden substances … if he so did, should not be allowed to count in determining his achievements.
That should apply equally to all players. Form my perspective, the fact that we have problems in determining the truth of the matter is of no consequence, relative to that standard.
Because of those problems, I believe that two things are in order.
First, the performance records of any and all players for which there is any suspicion of rules violation … should be held separate and apart from those where such is not the case.
That’s poorly written and poorly expressed and I really don’t care how it’s specifically effected … but something more than “shrugging our shoulders” or “wringing our hands” certainly needs to be done. It defies good reason to pay homage to those we have reason to suspect have dishonored the game, simply because we can’t prove it.
Second, while it may well be hypocritical behavior for Selig to take some kind of action against Bonds, there is a need to send a strong message to those who consider themselves above the game and choose to try to beat the system … and to make an example of arrogant, defiant, high profile players who take a “prove it” attitude, directionally accomplishes that objective.
By Ron
July 26, 2007 3:16 AM | Link to this
Well There really is not any reason to trade sooo much for Tex!!! He aint worth it in my opinion!!! He aint no savior, if he was the Rangers would be better!!! BC would STILL bat Andruw Cleanup and Tex would bat 5th!!! The Rangers cant wait to get rid of Tex, BUT they Really Really dont won’t to trade CJ Wilson, a Lefty reliever!!! Come on what does that say to you, that they dont EVEN want to trade a Lefty Reliever!!! Forget that Bum Tex!!!
By Bob, Journalist
July 26, 2007 3:40 AM | Link to this
That completes my responses ro earlier posts.
When we lose, we look for reasons why we lost … and why we’re going to win … generally it’s subjective but if we take all of it and digest, we get some pretty good ideas.
When we win, we look for reasons why we’re going to lose …
We probably lost tonight because we were to anxious to get the job done at the plate when opportunities arose … maybe we just got bested.
I taped but haven’t yet seen the game. However, in looking at the box score, I noticed that Chuck, while walking but 2 and striking out 5 in 6 innings … averaged 4.0 pitches per batter faced … while I think their starter averaged 3.3.
I would leave Chuck alone …
Goodnight Miss Allen
By Coach (The Blowpen Stinks)
July 26, 2007 3:55 AM | Link to this
Hey , Braves Dave. Three of those six losses you are referring to should have been wins but were lost by the bullpen. Offense gets a team in the game , pitching wins it. Now you can say that you learned something today.
By Bill
July 26, 2007 5:03 AM | Link to this
We were all worried about starting pitching but it looks like it’s the bat’s that the problem. The Braves are now four games out and it’s not looking good. I said from the start if they are out six games, come Sunday, they should be sellers. Build for next season. To many teams to pass for wild card.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 5:21 AM | Link to this
Hey, Coach…if you score 1 run offensively, but then the bullpen gives up 2 runs in the 9th to lose the game, you may blame that on the bullpen. That could be a valid argument. On the other hand, I would argue that you cannot expect to shut teams out on a regular basis, so scoring 1 run is not sufficient to win games against other Major League-quality offenses. You cannot even expect to win consistenly scoring 2 or 3 runs, so when the offense scores only 3 runs, but the bullpen gives up a few late in the game…who is to blame??? You say the bullpen, I say you are incorrect.
I did learn something today, though. Coach thinks the Braves can win games without scoring runs.
By Marc
July 26, 2007 5:26 AM | Link to this
I like this move, we probably won’t be able to resign Andruw and we probably won’t resign Wickman - getting Tex and Wilson or Gagne makes a lot of sense for this year and after.
By Soul Man
July 26, 2007 6:33 AM | Link to this
Let me be bold enough to be a voice of reason of sorts after last night’s frustrating loss. Every great team - and we’re not one, mind you - has a loss like last night. You know, a loss in which numerous scoring opportunities are wasted in remote control-throwing ways. You never like to see it, but it happens and it’s probably going to happen again this year. A change of subject: I didn’t feel all that bad after the dismal homestand earlier this month. Now that the Mets are taking care of business, though, that homestand is looking more and more like a ginormously-wasted opportunity.
By Coach (The Blowpen Stinks)
July 26, 2007 6:40 AM | Link to this
Dave thinks we can win without pitching which of course is totally ignorant. Again , 11-10 in July scoring 5.42 runs a game. 7-6 since the break scoring 71 runs and averaging 5.46 runs a game. Dave , the Braves are scoring runs like crazy and they have gained not a single game on the Mets. Now , explain to me again why offense is more important than pitching so I can laugh my a$$ off.
By Jeff R
July 26, 2007 6:46 AM | Link to this
Teixeira isn’t the key to a Braves championship because offense isn’t the problem. They need a solid #4 starter and bullpen help. Giving up Salty and a top pithing prospect for a 1B is plain goofy. Salty for a good young pitcher (if available) makes sense. Otherwise, what’s the point?
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 7:07 AM | Link to this
This is directed to those bloggers who have been wearing blinders and railing against my takes.
VINDICATION!!!!!!!!!
DOB,
Thanks for reporting eveything I have been saying for 4 weeks now. Of course, you get kudos for your committment to the truth.
Back to the blind,
Last night was a perfect example, and there are many, of where a good hitting team loses to a pitcher they should be handling.
Offensive inconsistency will be written on the epitaph of this team if they don’t get the solution.
Take dat, SUCKAS(Espescially LEW and WILL)
By ssiscribe
July 26, 2007 7:41 AM | Link to this
Top of the morning, denizens. I bet DOB is dragging out on the coast, because I know many of us on the East Coast who have the luxury of falling asleep in the seventh inning — as I did last night — still are a little tired after three straight nights of staying up past midnight watching the ballclub.
Now, last night (noted transition from the Scribe): Folks, last night was a great game. Not the fact the Braves lost, but the fact it was a well-pitched, well-played game on both sides. I’d much rather watch a 2-1 game than a 9-8 slugfest any day of the week.
Lowry is good, guys, and lefties chew up the Braves’ lineup. Chuck pitched very well, I thought. Made the one mistake but, you know what? It happens. Every team out there loses a handful of close, well-pitched games each year. Came at an inopportune time last night, with the Mets and Phillies winning, but that’s part of baseball.
Now, health (interesting transition, but stay with the Scribe): The health of the denizens of the Braves/MIB is a great concern. After all, the esteemed Ugandan journalist has told us for quite some time that toes are not to be trifled with (and I’m still looking for a way to not end that famous phrase in a preposition; hence, the parenthesis).
Folks, a baseball season is a long season. It is, indeed, a marathon. Saying the team sucks because they lose a well-played 2-1 game is ridicilous. Sometimes, you get good pitching and lose. It’s called baseball. Everybody relax, or we’ll be passing out nitroglycerin pills on here by Labor Day.
(And to whoever it was who said there are too many teams to pass for the wild card, do us a favor: Next time, look at the standings first. The Braves are one-half game behind two teams, and one game behind the wild-card leader.
Now, today (more transition): Important game, to say the least. Don’t wanna split this four-gamer with the Giants. Just need to win series and everything will take care of itself. So, a win today is needed. Arizona is playing very good baseball and is 10 games over .500 at home. Need some momentum as we leave the Bay for the desert.
And with that, it’s time to jump into the day. For now, and for always, the Scribe abides.
Peace.
—30—
By Patrick
July 26, 2007 8:10 AM | Link to this
Dave,
By Steve
July 26, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this
Regarding Willie Mays at how many more home-runs he supposedly would have hit if he didn’t play so many games at Candlestick Park — in reality, didn’t he actually hit more home-runs at Candlestick Park than he did on the road during the same time frame?
By David
July 26, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this
Un…excuse me but one thing that wasn’t mentioned….The salary issues
Salty makes the minimum. Tex doesn’t. The Braves can’t handle that kind of salary increse, ESPECIALLY if it includes Gagne who I would love to have. But if they allow the salary to go up then if they can get two for one I would do it.
One thing it would signal…..goodbye Andruw Jones.
By WAR EAGLE
July 26, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this
David O’Brien, are you OUT OF YOUR MIND! You are giving up young players with 5-8 yrs left in them for someone that may NOT be back after one yr? Are you Braves fans/writers that STUPID? May be you are. so you won’t be League champs this yr. Big deal! If you knew that 3-4 yrs down the road that the young talent were like the 1992 Braves, would you do this? NO! So stop giving up the future to try to win ONE championship. Focus on the multi’s and that si with young talent. Just say NO to Boras clients! Boycott Boras.
By Patrick
July 26, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this
Dave, If the Braves, or any other team for the matter, trade for a better player, do the Braves team batting stats still get calculated with the hits from the player they used earlier in the season?
By 3 Scenarios
July 26, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this
There are 3 scenarios that are in play here.
Salty for Tex-or another option at first- Salty (and others) go to the Rangers for Tex. OR Salty goes to another team for a first baseman and perhaps pitching. That option makes the Braves viable this year. It would solidify first base and bring bullpen help.
Salty for pitching only – This option is scary. It leaves the Braves with a Julio-Thorman combination at first. The hole that exists offensively at first will continue and could prove to be pivotal in the Braves chances of making the playoffs this year. I was all for signing Julio, but not in the role of a potential every day first baseman. This is a loser proposition. There is no upside. You’re depending on a 49 year old who probably isn’t capable of playing every day for the rest of the season and a guy who has proven he isn’t quite ready to be an every day first baseman in the majors.
Make a minor deal for bullpen help. Keep Salty and major prospects – I can even live with this one. BUT, if this is to be the case, the Braves better start getting Salty all the playing time they can at first. Every game Julio starts robs Salty of valuable experience at first. I know Bobby is trying to get Julio AB’s at first, but it’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The Braves need to start thinking about getting the guy who they will depend on every day at the position the AB’s and reps on defense. Salty is not hitting like he was when he first arrived, but even though he isn’t, he still does not look totally lost like Thorman does. If the Braves keep Salty and make no trades to cure first base, Salty is the ONLY viable option there. Julio at first from now until the end of the season is a scary thought!
By Braves Fan 79 (shoulda traded vick for CJ)
July 26, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this
I like some others here on this blog…thought BC should of bunted early in the game to give us a 2 run lead. But i gotta admit i thought forshure against that pitcher wed score more than 1 run regardless. To me that wasnt as big a mistake as letting woodcrap pitchit with 2 out and men on base while harris and mccan sat the bench. How come the past couple of years it feels like JS has brought in guys 2 late to help the team (wickman last year), and Bobby cant seem to realize how to play a hot hand, or sit a cold one. I KNOW MY TEAM IS BETTER THAN THIS!! Name one team in the NL that the Braves couldnt beat in the playoffs!??
By Earl
July 26, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this
The more I think about this potential trade, the more I like it. Tex seems to be more of a team player and on-base guy than Andruw (how many World Series have we won with Andruw? Answer=0). Plus the Braves could still get a couple draft picks for Andruw. My one question is, if the Braves have no chance of keeping Tex after 08, do you think Kaaihue could do the job? He’s tearing it up in the minors, even at Myrtle Beach.
By Will
July 26, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this
Went to bed after the sixth last night, thats just great to see Braves had tying run on 3rd with one out in the ninth, i wouldnt expect anything less. Need a win very badly today, going 7-7 out of the break against 4 of the worst teams in the NL is a disaster. 4 game out can become 6 or 7 very very quickly because they Mets will not be losing to the Pirates or Nationals at home. Although was against it at first, at this point i think the Texiera trade would be a neccesity, i am gonna get sick if i see Julio Franco start anymore games. what a joke to start him at first he looks every bit of his 48 years. Also, not trying to knock Bobby C, and i know Salty needs some starts at C, but since when is Mccann on the bench so often against lefthanded pitchers, he hits them just fine, it is starting to remind me of Laroche never playing against leftys before last year even though he hit them just fine. I know a C needs days off, but this is happening more often then that. I guess i will defer to the manager, but i dont get it at all.
By LT
July 26, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this
The Bravos need to get the Tex trade done!
Can we have a stipulation thrown in that a member of the Texas organization has to light a Turner field press box on fire for Tex’s first home game to really get the mojo goin?!
By iwalterp
July 26, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this
Just about everyone now knows that Salty is the guy the Braves are going to trade if they trade for Tex. I don’t think Kelly Johnson’s comments about “it would be good trading an AAA player and a prospect” were appropriate. Salty ain’t at AAA right now he is your team mate so just shut up until trade has been completed to say how good you think it could be.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this
Bob, Journalist,
My point about the Braves offense is that offensive consistency is not the problem. The Braves offense has been as good and as consistent as most other teams.
Now, with concern to Bonds, I was saying Selig can’t really do anything other than maybe not show up and try to ignore the pomp and show around the HR record. And he made his statement saying he is showing up simply out of respect for the game and out of respect for the principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
Yes, you can reasonable argue Selig should have done more sooner, but no one was really talking about steroids in baseball until the late 1990s. It didn’t become a bigger issue until later than that. Plus he had to fight a strong players’ union. It’s easy to see why he didn’t do more sooner. I have no idea how much Bud knew but I think it’s reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt and give him some leniency on the issue.
As far as erasing games, what can Selig really do about that. If he erases games and stats of all the games Bonds participated in, where does he draw the line? There are certainly more players than Bonds who likely used and didn’t get caught. Do you take away all the World Series titles of the past 15 years or so? Do you just pretend baseball didn’t exists over the past 15 years or so? I understand Bonds is breaking the HR record but what about all the other statistics put up by probable steroid users?
It’s a very complex issue because of legality and the power of the players’ union. I think baseball just has to allow the truth to come out, go after players where they can and allow the stigma to be attached to the era and the players of the era. We have to attach context to the statistics so that we can see what they mean and their relevance.
Everyone knows players don’t put up multiple historically great seasons in their late 30s, that Bonds got bigger, that his trainer was jailed for steroid distribution. That’s something that will always be attached to the HR record and will always be there for all to see.
By DJ
July 26, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
Here’s the deal…This trade has to be made one way or another. To be able to get a guy of the caliber as Teixeira’s is a no-brainer. Trade Salty, Matt Harrison, and possibly Brent Lillibridge for Tex and possibly CJ Wilson, Ron Mahay, or yes Eric Gagne.
The logic here is that you immediately upgrade your infield with a 27 year-old all-star and gold glove performer with power to complement the middle portion of the current batting order and get Andruw out of that cleanup spot. Dropping ‘Druw to maybe the fifth or sixth slot in the order will only help him long term for the remainder of the season, and not to mention that Chipper would see better pitches to hit.
Upper management should really go ahead and pull the trigger ASAP if they really want to WIN and WIN now. I hear every year during the course of spring training that “we are going to put the best championship caliber team on the field.” Yes, I understand the budget constraints, however, here is a golden opportunity to go after and put the team in position to instantly become a perennial choice to actually win the NL East & possibly te NL pennant.
Making this deal will also allow you to look ahead for next season and have Tex around for ‘08 and sign him to a long term deal, since it is a sure bet that Andruw is a goner after this season. I know that Boras represents Tex as well, but he may sign for 12 or 13 million over 5 years versus Andruw looking to be the next 20 million dollar major leaguer.
The bottom line is that everybody improves each year with a major deal except the Bravos. Once again opportunity is right here. News flash we are not getting the productivity from our current first basemen, with a combine .205 batting average and a mere 33 RBI’s. TOTALLY NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! Scott Thorman is not getting it done and is constantly proving it and Bobby has given him every opportunity. Although we picked up Julio Franco, we all know that he is not the answer for an everyday role. His clubhiuse leadership is the major reason he is back in a Braves uniform.
When was the last time the Braves were in posistion to acquire a major bat as a first baseman like this one? Try Fred McGriff back in 1993 or maybe Andres Galaragga in 1998. This is an area that the Braves seem to overlook each and every year fro the past several years. A feared bat in the middle of the order that can play first base.
An opposing pitcher would really be concerned pitching to a lineup like this one:
K. Johnson/L. Harris E. Renteria C. Jones M. Teixeira B. McCann A. Jones J. Francoeur M. Diaz/Y. Escobar Pitcher
WOW!!! Again, this is a no-brainer. Yes, it has been said that pitching wins championships; however, if other teams are winning the past titles based on good offenses, I say that we get to getting ourselves. Our minor league system is still strong enough to where we can give up on some prospects.
Mr. O’Brien, if you should read this please observe my points and take them into account. I have been a Braves fan since 1981 and have seen great stars come and go and even seen the bad years pre-1990. If John Schuerholz, Frank Wren, and the other front office staff are REALLY REALLY SERIOUS about winning in ‘07 and beyond and stating another streak of division titles and more, then here’s an opportunity to take those steps and bulsd from there. You’ve got players, such as Smoltzie and Chipster, who would loveto be in the position and challenge for another ring and others like Andruw who would like to get a taste of being in the dance, especially before he vaults for another team in ‘08.
OPPORTUNITY MIGHT NOT BE AVAILABLE AGAIN!!!
By Will
July 26, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this
iwalterp, I totally agree with you about Kelly Johnson’s comments. I first laughed at it cause there is no way in hell they get Tex for that and then became a tad irritated cause comments like that from Chipper or Smoltz are one thing, but kelly johnson? Nothing against the guy, but who is to say he would not be out the door for the right trade?? I do not want that at all, but those were awful loose words for a guy in his shoes.
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this
DOB,
I am reading this morning, mostly from the Dallas papers, that the Rangers are more apt to be asking for Lillibridge and not Elvis as they want a speedy outfielder. Have you heard his name mentioned?
Regards,
Jason
By ssiscribe
July 26, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this
Actually, the salary issues have been talked about quite a bit.
Tex is signed through next year. While several Braves receive raises in 2008 (I believe it’s Smoltz and Hudson who receive big boosts), the Braves will not (in all likelihood) have Andruw Jones next year. Also, Bob Wickman may retire. And, Liberty Media has indicated payroll will rise somewhat in 2008.
After 2008, the Braves don’t have to pay for Renteria or Hampton (and if Hampton is hurt again in 2008, which is always a distinct possibility, insurance could pick up some of his salary, as has been the case the past two years). McCann already is locked up long-term, and I don’t think his salary really jumps until 2009 or 2010.
So, while I don’t have the numbers in front of me, it seems there will be room for the Braves to make a very competitive offer to Teixeira after the 2008 season.
And to the blogger who called everybody “stupid,” I would refer you to several posts from the past two days (including a post of mine filed last night) that show how the Braves won’t have to mortgage the future with this deal. With the wealth of veteran talent that will return in 2008, along with the influx of talent from the minor leagues in 2008 and 2009 (Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge, Matt Harrison (if he’s not traded as part of the Tex deal), Dan Smith, Jo Jo Reyes (he’s already here, I know), Will Startup, etc.), I think the Braves are primed to remain in contention even if Salty and Elvis is playing somewhere else.
To me, and this is my opinion, but the Braves’ odds of winning the division and doing something in the playoffs increases with a veteran lefty arm in the pen and a switch-hitting, power-hitting, Gold Glove first baseman hitting cleanup and anchoring your lineup. You add in the fact Tex is 27, he’s a career .284 hitter, he’s durable (I know he was on the DL this year for a bit, but played every game the previous two years), and he played his college ball in Atlanta (so he knows the city very well), I think all add up to this being well worth the gamble.
I’ve said countless times I think Salty is going to be a star. But we already have a star behind home plate, a young, two-time All-Star who is locked up into the next decade. I say you give up Salty, let him become a star at his natural position and get a star in return in Tex, a star who you can get WITHOUT giving away the future.
A star who gives you a better chance to get to the playoffs and win once the calendar flips to October.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By Smyrntown David
July 26, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
If we get Tex and a reliever, we immediately become a championship calliber team for the first time since 2001. Bobby did an amazing job getting us to the playoffs every year since (last year doesn’t count), but we were never close to being a threat to win it all or even win a playoff series. If it means giving up a catching prospect, who cares? We have the best catcher in the game already in Big Mac. Pull the trigger Johnny and we’ll fill the stadium this fall.
By DHD
July 26, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
You guys keep bringing up salary issues. If it were a problem, JS wouldn’t be in talks. JS has said that Liberty added to the payroll PLUS the Braves are getting Hampton’s salary back fro insurance and his salary was huge.
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this
From Dan Graziano of the Star Ledgar:
“Long regarded as one of the top offensive prospects in the game, “Salty” could end up having been the key to the biggest deal of this year’s trade deadline. Late last night, the Braves and the Texas Rangers were said to be close to a deal that would send first baseman Mark Teixeira and a relief pitcher (such as C.J. Wilson, Ron Mahay or Joaquin Benoit) to Atlanta for Saltalamacchia, shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and a minor-league pitcher.”
I was hoping it got done before Texas left town and started their road trip. They are headed to KC. It would have been sweet to land Tex and Wilson in the early morning and have them fly to SF from Texas!
Regards,
Jason
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this
One more tidbit…only posting it because it seems to go with what DOB was saying about Damon, but this states that the Skanks initiated the contact. This is also from Graziano:
“he Yankees have been calling a few teams to see if they’d be interested in taking center fielder Johnny Damon off their hands. One of those teams is the Braves, whose answer (according to an official with one of the teams involved, who requested anonymity because he was talking about deals that weren’t completed) was that they liked Damon, “but not at that price.” Damon is signed through 2009 at $13 million per season, and if the Yankees were to trade him, which they technically could if they believe Jason Giambi is coming back soon from his foot injury, they’d probably have to chip in a good chunk of that salary. That, along with Damon’s limited no-trade clause, makes it unlikely the Yankees would deal him, but it sure is interesting that they’ve looked into it….”
Regards,
Jason
By Smyrntown David
July 26, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this
…and one more thing to everyone that thinks signing Julio was a good thing: lay off the crack. The guy can’t hit an 89 mph fastball these days and he hasn’t pulled a ball since the Clinton administration. We’re much better off with a hungry AAA player coming the bench than Julio.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
“The Braves offense has been as good and as consistent as most other teams.”
Way off buddy. The problem I see with this statement is that I believe the braves are built to be the best offensively, therefore they are underachieving. You can be good and still underachieve. Inconsistency is an understatement in the brave’s case. I think everything gets skewed because sometimes they just kill opponents and you say to yourself, “Man, these guys rock!”. Then the next day, total silence. If you sprinkle in some of the decent pitching we have, we have stayed above .500 and that is winning. But its not the sort of winning we should be doing. 6 games over .500 is not gonna do.
I am not worried about the bullpen except to say that Ledezma is in the zone, that is, the twilight zone. That need should be addressed. Sometimes, and in this case I think its so, one or two variables can change the balance and create a domino effect. That’s what Tex will be, the missing Domino. Henceforth, he shall be referred to as Tex Domino.
Peace out!!
By Scoff
July 26, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this
DOB
You mentioned the Braves had inquired about Johnny Damon from the Yankees, which I know this would be highly improbable. Would this be a Salty deal they are thinking of or something bigger? Just wondering, thanks.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
Rough loss last night. We need to win today’s game. We can’t afford to split with a team like the Giants. Then again, we just split with the Cardinals, and got swept by the Reds. The Mets seem to be about ready to go on a roll. The Phillies have the same number of losses as we do. For all of the bloggers who say the Phillies can’t get out of their own way…well…52-48(Phillies)……54-48(Braves)…the records don’t agree with you.
By john
July 26, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
Some how I see Gagne working.
Apparently he only wants to go where he can close the majority of the time…contract with incentives. Well, next year Wick is probably gone, so we solved our closer’s need for next year. However if we are trading away three prospects I would like to think that JS could get some money from Texas to help with payroll. Ron Mahay wouldn’t be a bad option in the pen either
By NO CHOP ZONE
July 26, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
The Mets are beating the teams they are supposed to. See braves this is how it’s done. It’s going be a good series in NY…….LETS GO METS!!!
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this
Damon is interesting. Though the Yankees would have to pay a lot. I mean a ton for that guy. He is banged up more than Chipper. No thanks.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this
TampaBrave,
I agree that the Braves could use improvement in certain areas on offense but I disagree that the offense has been any more inconsistent than most other teams.
Again, let me show you the evidence and we can let everyone else decide if your right or the evidence is right. It’s not about me being “way off.” It’s about either you are right or the evidence is right. I’ll go with evidence over any human being (including myself) any day.
The Braves have scored 4 or more runs 62 times. Eight teams in all of baseball have done it more and many of those teams play half their games in great run-scoring parks.
Also, the Braves are 5th in the NL in runs scored per game.
It’s hard to argue that the Braves offense has been any more inconsistent than most other teams unless you just want to ignore the evidence.
Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to improve it but it is “way off” to say that it has been any more inconsistent that most other teams.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
This is getting interesting……. even though we lost last night, starting pitching is looking very strong, it has for the last 10 games or so. James has looked very good for more than a month and carlyle longer than that.
Chipper and edgar are just too much for any pitching staff, add matt diaz to that. Last night was a game we should havenot lost. but that is baseball. Lets put that game behind. Buddy is giving us a winning opportunity every time out. So lets hit the ball today and stop crying.
Bad thing is that mutts have been winning, hope it doesnt last for long.
Tex for salty seems almost as done deal, i think they are just making adjustments to the deal, but i think it is done. We do need a lefty in that bp, not sure if it is a good thing to bring gagne because of his injuries, but i wouldnt disagree on taking the risk.
What about a starter? is it really needed? The problem with the braves is that they are so inconsistent the it isnot clear what is needed the most. 3-4 spots on rotation have been doing ok, but what will happen if they go back to early season form? we are dead. Is the bullpen capable of becoming what it was in april, may and june if it is given some rest?
How will andrew perfom if tex hits behind him? i Suppose he will see better pitches than with brian behind him. Or will he hit behind TEX¿?
I wouldnt let go JOJO, he has look much better than davies and he has no experience, so to me that guy is better for us than kyle, maybe even than james.
Last but not least, i would have to say that there are not too many players on the entire team that you could say they have not played extremely good for at least 2 weeks of the season, you can include paronto at the start of the season, brian was much better before injuries started to hit him. The only players that have been AWFUL the hole season are:
AJ………..still batting 4th Kyle……… down to AAA Orr………..AAA Woodward….. still on our bench, what for? thorman….. benched and close to be traded or sent to AAA Prado……. Back to AAA. LEdezma….. still doing bad, but limited action.
So as i see it, the current cancer of this team are
AJ (i would limit his playing time) woodward (i would send him down to AAA as soon as tex is signed and bring up brian peña) Ledezma (what should we do with that guy????)
Im not sure what the braves do with thorman, that is not an easy one, that guy plays hard, i think he is too much for AAA but not enough for MLB.
By Will
July 26, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Efrim, Good point on the Phillies, they have pretty quietly stayed right in this, and they are a very quality baseball team, any Braves fan who is not also worried about them is very confused.
By Wolfpack Man
July 26, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this
*Smyrntown David *
You write:
If we get Tex and a reliever, we immediately become a championship calliber team for the first time since 2001. Bobby did an amazing job getting us to the playoffs every year since (last year doesn’t count), but we were never close to being a threat to win it all or even win a playoff series
First of all, I hope we get Tex and I do agree that it would signifigantly improve this team and make it a threat in a somewhat watered down National League.
But, how in the world can you say that the Braves have not been a threat since 2001? In fact, 2001 was one of the weaker teams the Braves sent to the playoffs. The teams in 2002 and 2003 were great teams. 2002 was maybe the best pitching team the Braves have ever had and won over 100 games and 2003 the Braves won 103 games with the best offense they have ever had.
Then to say they were not a threat to win a series is absurd. Granted, they have not won a series since 2001, but to say they were not a threat to win one— come on, man. Every series except the Houston 2005 NLDS went 5 games and the 2005 series went 4 games with an 18 inning game 4.
By Will
July 26, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this
Shaun, My advice on Tampa Brave would be to quit listening to him. the dude has been arguing this circular “our offense is not productive enough” BS logic for several weeks now. It is insane and wrong. It has become worse the last few days with the talking down to people I didnt really apprecaite being called a chickenshit fan because i said the bullpen needs help, you are not remotely “way off” you are right on.
By ugadawn
July 26, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
Give up Salty for another “Rent-a-player”, as I’m sure Teixeira will become… not a great option, in my book. The Braves have done this time and time again, only to watch the person they traded turn out better than the one they traded for. I just don’t see it being a good move.
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
Is the blog screwy (being overprinted by the AJC sport page) for anyone else this morning or do I need to get gremlins out of my laptop?
By Bob, Journalist
July 26, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this
Methinks I agree with the Turkey Buzzard
Coach, you know that I never disagree with you … I’m not that stupid! This is one time that I actually do agree with you which may within itself be a sign of stupidity … offense is not more important than pitching.
All nine players are involved in the offense though less is usually expected of the pitcher. Since defensive positioning and anticipation are involved, all nine, plus the defensive alignment “coach”, are involved in the pitching, though though the pitcher’s importance is dominant, followed by the catcher, the “coach, and the players.
However, it is foolhardy to use average runs scored in conjunction with a team’s won-loss record to reach any conclusions, unless you know the distribution characteristics … and even then, so doing is fraught with peril.
Offensive inconsistency is a problem, regardless of the average number of runs scored … perhaps inconsistency is the wrong word … Andruw has a flawed hitting approach and is amazingly consistent … Jeff is consistently impatient, Scott consistently swings too hard … and others are consistently trying to do too much when they are under pressure.
I cannot agree with those who suggest that the relievers are not to be faulted when the give up the lead because the game is 2-1 and we should have scored more runs. It was their job to hold the lead and they failed to so do … they were bested. It’s a competition and anyone, at any time, can be bested and there’s no shame in that … but, when they are, they are.
I don’t buy into the notion that the relievers are overworked … it can happen but the excuse is overworked more than the players. When the fail and are not overworked, it’s because they were rusty from inactivity.
In either case, they were bested … and maybe the other team was better prepared..
Things happen … games are lost because of walks and fluke hits and the manager and/or coaches preach control, in no uncertain terms … and the entire staff listens … result … fewer walks and more homeruns.
Methinks we need to be better prepared offensively … if our relievers are too predictable, then need to be less consistent in what they do … but that may be as much of a problem with the catcher’s game calling influence as a problem with the pitcher’s execution.
We can certainly do without Andruw from an offensive standpoint and while we may need an upgrade at 1st base … the lineup could be changed to address that with current players.
1st Base - Matt, 2nd Base - Yunel, Shortstop - Edgar, 3rd Base - Larry, Catcher - Brian, Left - Kelly, Center - Willie, Right - Jeff.
My guess that we’ll see a major trade … hopefully for both strong starting and relief pitching but I assume it more probable that we make a strong effort to land Tex … indeed, it will be as unfortunate as it would be inane to undermine our system for the expectation of short term gain … albeit somewhat expected behavior from lame duck administrations.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
ugadawn,
Salty has no place to play in Atlanta. I agree they need to get something to make it worthwhile losing a player that is going to be good for the next decade, whether that’s cash or a young player in return in a package deal, but Teixeira is a great option.
By 1957 Braves Fan
July 26, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
Offense isn’t our problem. Lack of clutch hitting is our problem. We had enough runners in scoring position last night. We always do. How many games are won by scoring just one run and you don’t shut out the other team?
By Renegator
July 26, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
NCZ:
Agreed. The Braves biggest downfall this year has been losing to teams they should easily beat. I don’t see the Braves winning the division but I see them with a great chance to win the Wildcard.
By Steve
July 26, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
I would not trade Salty for all the tea in China. As much as I like Brian McCann, when it is all said and done, Salty is going to have a much better career. Salty can hit, has a lot of power, and is an excellent defensive catcher. He has a much stronger and more accurate throwing arm than McCann. McCann may call a better game at this point and time, but Salty will improve in that area.
How about McCann at 1B and put Salty behind the plate where he belongs?
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this
braves fan as far as i now clutch hitting is part of the offense, so offense ISSSSSSS our problem. One of them.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
Will,
I don’t agree with you too often lately but you nailed that one. One might even think that if phillies fill thier one or two holes, they become favorites over mets and braves if braves remain with the status quo.
Shaun, Nice try, but again, look at the way this team is built. It is built to score runs with sprinklings of good pitching and defense.4 or more runs 62 times??? OK, though I think its 61. The point is this, they excel at leaving runners on base or eliminating them on DPs. Since their pitching expectations are not as high as in the past, the offense must step it up to the levels for which it was predicted to do. Comparing to other teams and their woes is convenient, but this team, to achieve its expectations, cannot compare itself to the rest of the league, it must be the benchmark itself. Don’t use other teams to drag the Braves down to their level.
By Lee
July 26, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this
Will and Iwalterp
Agree with both of you on Kelly Johnson. A recent platoon player and with his short tenure with the Braves who in the he!l cares what he thinks. Only Chipper and Smoltz can get away with talk like that.
Now on to this ongoing saga of Tex and Salty ……..agree the Braves need to make it happen ASAP because at this rate they could be in 3rd place in the division by the 1st of next week. This team needs a little extra to lift them into a major winning streak or at least winning consistently. Hopefully a trade for Tex and a reliever will be the answer. I hope this talk about Damon is only that - talk.
By Will
July 26, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
Renegator, you are definitely right, the losing to bad teams is brutal. I also agree that i think unless the Braves plan on beating the Mets most every time they play the rest of the season they are looking at the Wild Card for their playoff ticket. Might as well, i would like to see what kind of noise they could make as the wild card cause they have been the 100 win team stung by the Wild Card more then once.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
1957 Braves Fan,
Has the Braves clutch hitting been lacking? Again, let’s look at the evidence.
Braves rank 10th in RBI with RISP situations in all of baseball.
The Braves OPS with RISP is fourth in all of baseball and their batting average with RISP is 3rd in all of baseball.
In late and close situations the Braves’ AVG is 4th in baseball. Their OPS is 5th.
The Braves are having no problems in what most people would call clutch situations. Again, if you want to argue that clutch hitting is a problem for the Braves, you have to argue against a lot of evidence.
By Thrasher Ryan
July 26, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this
Not worth it. Keep Salty. Salty provides depth at 1B and at catcher. I think we are fine at 1st base rotating Franco, Thorman, Salty. The problem is pitching. But Lance is coming back soon, right? We should be allright. Keep things as they are. Go Braves!
By Typikal braves fan
July 26, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
I love my Braves, SOMETIMES, sometimes I don’t love my BrAVes. If my Braves win, then I love my Braves a hole lot. But if my Braves lose, then I hate my Braves a hole lot. Folks I think we should GET rid of all/some/all of our bad players and get some/all good players for them in a trade with some team that wants bad players on their team. Sometimes if my team wins our manager is the best manager in the HOLE danged league and we are headed for a World Series sweep and rings for everybody, but folks when my team lose they suck really bad and my manager Bobby Socks is the worst nose-PICking donk that ever lived and he probably suffers from that oldtimers’ dISEase, and I really hate him!!!!!!
Folks folks what do you think????? We need pitching, and we need good hitting players, and wE need a bullpen, and we need a closer that can close, and we need Andruw Jones to STOP smiling like some ape with all the bananas. Maybe if we could get Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan then that would help SOLIDIFY our starting rotation somewhat and I think folks that we could most likely get them ON the cheap for a couple minor leaguers only if we can sign them beyond this year.
OK I’m going to go see what everyone ELSE has to Say, then I’m coming back here to repeat it 8 or 10 times>>>>>>>>folks
By Renegator
July 26, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this
Man, the Tigers really burned us on the Ledezma trade - what was JS thinking? Now we are stuck with a reliever that Bobby has no faith in because we can’t send him down because he is out of options. Good one JS…
By don
July 26, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
Wonderful. The trade would allow the braves to compete for the division championship/wildcard which, if successful, will allow them to play a few more games before they lose out, as usual, in the first round of the playoffs.
This looks like another J.D. Drew tradealthough they would have this boy for a couiple months over a season whereas Drew was a one year rental.
In the meantime, Wainwright and Marquis are developi9ng into decent (or better) starters for the Cardinals and Cubs. what has Drew done for the Braves lately?
The braves will never sign teixeira so, again, we sacrifice the futhre so that John and Bob can maybe win another division. Big deal. But, fools will be fools.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
TampaBrave,
The Braves offense is as consistent as or more so than most other team’s in the major leagues. That’s what the evidence shows. Yes, I would love for them to be first in runs and score 4 or more runs 162 times this year but they are more consistent than a lot of other teams. It’s just not true that the offense has been less consistent than most other teams. There’s no way to deny that unless you want to deny the evidence and the truth.
By bigboi
July 26, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this
I just heard from a reliable source we may land Slammin Sammy Sosa in the trade with tex and a reliever. Great job JS!!!!!!!!!!
By Will
July 26, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this
Tampa Brave, Wow we agree, i think hell is frozen over, just kidding. Yeah i hate to say it but that Phillies lineup in that little league ballpark is scary. I was not happy to see Jimmy Rollins 2 out triple/error to tie the game last night, those are the breaks you need in a pennant race and minus coming back two nights ago the Braves cant buy a break.
By Luther
July 26, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
These lineups I see are ridiculous. Players have positions for a reason. The linups I see here often remind me of playing RBI baseballl as a kid. You have Tony Armas on the bench with 40+ HRs, no problem, pinch hit him for Rich Gedman and let him catch the rest of the game.
There is no team in baseball that would play Willie Harris over Andruw Jones in center. At about the same age, Willie has around 100 less hits than Andruw has homers, and three less HRs than Andruw has gold gloves. I understand letting Andruw go after the season and using the money elsewhere, but when a team has one of the best centerfielders in baseball you play him.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
I agree with u Shaun, our problem is not having a cleanup hitter that can carry the team at least 2 times a week and in close games. What do we need AJ hitting HR in blowouts for? Get rid of that guy, he is never going to get better. Lack of discipline and he has found out that nothing bad is going to happen to him as Cox has not benched him, so he will continue doing the same he has done so far. Cut him loose as soon as we can.
By Hate To Do It
July 26, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
No Chop Zone hit the nail on the head in an earlier post. The Mets are beating the teams they are supposed to. The Braves are not.
It’s been the Braves MO for a number of years. Beat up on the Meat teams and play around .500 against the good teams. That recipe will get you into the playoffs.
I hate giving props to No Chop, but what he said in that post is dead on.
By Will
July 26, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Don, I do agree with you that even if the Braves make the playoffs its hard not to expect a first round failure, i will believe it when i see them win a series. But that JD Drew trade was not the end of the world he had a great season, they hoped to sign him but couldnt, sometimes you lose a good talent in Wainwright, it happens. And give me a break on Marquis, he is not pitching that well at all, i live up north and see alot of Cards and Cubs games on tv, which sucks cause i hate both teams, but i am telling you the Braves arent missing out on much with either guy, especially Marquis.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
don,
Yeah, darn Schuerholz for making a trade that gives the Braves a shot at the World Series!
Should have kept Wainwright and Marquis that year and went with Dewayne Wise or Charles Thomas in rightfield.
By knowitall
July 26, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
Bob, Journalist
In reference to your 3:11 post, you are suggesting removing stats from anyone’s record who is suspected of using steriods. Do you not see the problem with that? Remove the statistics based on whose speculation? I personally think that Roger Clemens used steriods but you don’t really hear his name come up a lot in the steriod conversation. While he may not be breaking hollowed records, he certainly will go down as the greatest right handed pitcher of our era.
It has been suggested by some on this blog that Andruw Jones has used steriods. I personally don’t think he has but since there are some who believe that he has, do we remove his stats too? I’m sure if you looked hard enough, you could probably find someone who would say that every major leaguer over the last 15-20 years has used steriods. There would be a witch hunt to get anyone bigger than the size of Otis Nixon. But maybe he was so skinny because he was smoking crack while he was playing. Does that count? David Wells admitted to being hung over when he pitched his no hitter. Do we wipe that off the books too? I could go on and on and……..
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
I really hope this starting Franco every day to see what he’s got phase soon ends. We don’t need a .192 hitter in the lineup everyday in the middle of close games during a pennant chase!!!
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this
bigboi
How could bringing Sosa to Atlanta be a good job? We have enough KKKKKKs here with AJ, julio and thorman.
By fastasballs
July 26, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
I doubt the day goes by without the Tex deal going through or it may be dead in the water. It’s just a gut feeling I have, I could be wrong, it may just be gas.
If JS does make the deal I hope he tells Cox there is a stipulation that Tex must hit clean up. Someone mentioned if Tex hit 5th Andruw would get better pitches, that wouldn’t be the case. Teams pitch around Chipper to get to Andruw, they are not pitching around him as well, he’s the out they want to get. Andruw batting 7th would work fine. If Frenchy is hitting 6th they won’t/can’t pitch around him because he swings at anything.
Inserting Tex instantly makes this a more potent line up. Adding the second switch hitter in back of Chipper would be an opposing manager’s worst nightmare. Both hit for power & average. There would be no pitching around the first 4-5 guys in the order as long as Andruw was hitting 7th. In addition the four outs a game produced by the current first basemen would be removed from the line up.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
Will,
I said you were a chickenshit because you said you were afraid to watch when Wickman came in to pitch. I think you said you would leave the room. If the shoe fits….
Damn, did I agree with you a moment ago?
By flange1
July 26, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
Morning All,
I am for the Salty for Tex trade. It would be nice to have 4 real hitters in the lineup in a row in Edgar, Hoss, Tex and McCann with AJ and Frenchy helping to drive in some runs. My opinion is that the more .300 hitters you get on the club, the better the chance of driving in runners that are on base.
I think JS has soured a bit on Elvis, and he will be traded while his value is high. Lillibridge and Escobar are the middle infielders for the future.
I hope we can keep Davies, Reys and Harrison even if it means losing Devine who I think BC has lost faith in completely.
I agree with some of the earlier posts that picking up 2 bullpen arms a lefty and a righty would really help the current tired bullpen. I am still a bit leery of Gagne, but Marte or either Texas lefty would be great. Would love Wilson, but I don’t think he will be traded. Would still love to get Greinke in a seperate deal.
The more quality arms the better!
By Alan
July 26, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
I say make the Tex trade now! The Braves’ offense, while good “on paper” has been inconsistent. And they need a shot in the arm. I would compare this move to what they did in ‘93, acquiring McGriff. As soon as Crime Dog arrived, the Braves caught fire (literally - there was a fire in the stadium that night) and eventually won the Western Division title by a game over the Giants. Same thing could happen now - but only if the Braves do something dramatic. Too many lost opportunities in key spots (like last night); too many series splits against inferior clubs (Cards and Giants if the Braves lose tonight). Meanwhile, the Mets are beginning to pull away and the Phils are hanging around. The Braves have to make a big deal ASAP! First base is essentially a black hole - fill it now with Tex!
By Josh
July 26, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
Interesting stuff:
Yes, the Braves would love to land a solid #3 starter. Or even another ace. Problem is, who are they going to get him from? Pittsburgh is not going to give up Snell. Oakland sure isn’t going to give up Haren. These starters just aren’t available, and if one becomes available, they’ll pretty much be able to name our price.
So, we have the option of dealing a good player and getting a great one in return, possibly with bullpen help. If we can’t shore up the rotation, might as well shore up the bullpen and fix the only position we’re really struggling at offensively.
Its a fine line. I think Harrison, Salty, and probably Andrus or Lillibridge for Texeira and Gagne or Wilson would be a good trade. Gagne’s arm worries me, so maybe we can use that to get the deal more in our favor.
Oh, and I never want Sammy Sosa in a Braves uniform. Texeira has more power than him now. Sammy isn’t exactly the cleanest player ever either..
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
Overlord,
Yeah, because the rest of the offense, which has scored the fifth-most runs in the league, isn’t good enough.
By Smyrntown David
July 26, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
PacMan/Chuck Amato:
I stand corrected. In my opinion, the last legitimate contender we had was the 2003 squad that crushed everything in sight. The recent years of Chucky Thomas and when our local boys were call ups, we were far from contenders. I give those division titles to Bobby Cox and getting it done with smoke and mirrors.
By the way, you’re lucky NC State isn’t going to get whipped by the Jackets again this year.
By don
July 26, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this
Maybe the Braves should change their nickname to the Lemmings. Go ahead and make another shortsighted trade.
You still won’t make the playoffs and many of you will be whining in early October. I merely want to go on record before the fact rather than to wait until after the fact.
Go Lemmings! Fools prevail.
By bigboi
July 26, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
But Slammin Sammy has turned things around, Think about this lineup 2B Kelly Johnson, SS Edger, 3B Hoss, 1B Tex, CF Andruw, RF Francour, LF Slammin Sammy, Catcher Baby Huey. What a lineup, I guess you could switch Slammin Sammy for Baby Huey in the lineup but either way that’s a great linup. WELCOME TO ATLANTA SLAMMIN SAMMY!!!!!!
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
bigboi,
Braves have plenty of good, young, cheap corner outfielders. I doubt your source is correct.
Overlord,
Ryan Howard has a lot of strikeouts. I guess it wouldn’t be good to bring him to Atlanta if the Braves could either, huh?
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
No answer about the blog dysfunction question? Oh well…guess it got lost in all the urgent strateegery going on. Must’ve been that beanball that DOB threw at a deserving troll last night…bounced off the noggin and hit the ajc server.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
don,
Yeah, because trying to put your team in a position to win it all is just stupid, isn’t it?
By Todd A
July 26, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
“The Braves have scored 114 runs this month for a game AVG of 5.42 which is more than enough offense. “
The reason the average is high is because the Braves have had a couple games where they scored 10 or more runs.That tends to skew statistics a bit.But,this team is still vulnerable to quality left handed pitching.If any of these guys exhibit any amount of control like Lowry,the Braves can’t hit them.Period.Too many free swingers in this lineup just continue to give away outs every night.
” The Braves offense is as consistent as or more so than most other team’s in the major leagues. That’s what the evidence shows.”
Well Shaun that statement isn’t very profound.What teams are we talking about?the Devil Rays,Royals,Diamondbacks,Marlins,Orioles etc etc.No disrespect,but sometimes I wonder if you actually watch the games or you just search websites for statistics.This Braves team can’t hit quality pitching.They’ll score 10 runs off some Joe Schmo one night,and get completely shut down the following night against a good pitcher.This isn’t consistency.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
OTISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
MY MAN!
When I lived in Baltimore, I used to go to Philly everytime the Braves came to town. I was sitting in the field level seats next to left field. We were a little tanked and I kept yelling OTTISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. He must have been smokin’ the crack, because he looked like he got scared when I did that. I guess you had to be there.
By ssiscribe
July 26, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
Don’t know why I’m on here so much this morning, but alas, here goes:
— Braves had to make the Drew deal to replace Sheffield in right field. For one year, it turned out to be a great deal. Drew, often injured, stayed healthy and had his best season (145 games, 31 homers, .305 average). The thinking was he might sign a long-term deal since he’s from South Georgia. But Drew has proven in the past to be hard to deal with, and he bolted for the Dodgers and much more money after the season.
The deal never happens if Wainwright wasn’t included (I know that for a dead-letter fact). The Cardinals banged on Schuerholz for two months and he finally gave in. Marquis wasn’t much of a loss; very talented, but bullheaded as all get out (again, something I know for a fact). Ray King, understated part of that trade in my opinion. Liked him; he had two good seasons with the Braves.
Braves went for broke with the Dec. 13, 2003, trade (believe me, I remember the date) and while they won 101 games in 2004, they gave up a big part of their future in Wainwright, who helped the Cardinals win the World Series last year as a closer and now is their most consistent starter (although he got bombed last night). Marquis wasn’t going to stay here long with his attitude and his reluntance to listen to Mazzone.
So to say both of those guys aren’t missed is wrong. One is missed a bunch; the other, not so much. The day the deal was made, I felt it was too much to give up. But for one season, it worked. Drew was first on the team in hits, runs scored and homers, and second in RBIs. Having him in right field every day allowed the Charles Thomas/Dwayne Wise platoon to work in left field. Play both of those guys 145 games and who knows if things turn out the way they did.
Now, spinning it ahead: I’ve seen A LOT of folks on here comparing Drew/Wainwright to Tex/Salty. Some of it is valid, but at the same time, the payroll constraints are totally different. Braves will have substantially more flexibility to sign Tex long-term than they did Drew. Braves have no place for Salty to play. They definitely had a need for Wainwright in the rotation, if not in 2004 than certainly in 2005 (he made several starts with the Braves in spring training in 2003, and started the Southern League All-Star game that season while with Greenville).
I’m always wary about giving up too much for a quick fix or a quick push to the top … comes from my horror some 24 years later when I remember the Len Barker deal. It was, in my opinion, the onset of a nuclear winter that plunged this franchise into total darkness for several years. But the Tex for Salty situation is different, for the reasons I’ve spelled out in several posts I’ve filed the past two days.
— Franco is not starting today, according to what was said on the broadcast last night.
—30—
By Tad
July 26, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
Saltalamacchia, Elvis, and Harrison/Davies for Teixeira & Wilson/Gagne.
What a great deal for both sides! I believe we can sign Tex to a 3-4 year deal in the $16-18M range annually, which we can afford when we drop the salaries of K-Druw and Hampton…
Pull the trigger!
Who said the trade deadline wouldn’t produce a blockbuster deal?
By Colin
July 26, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this
Must READ
Braves are looking at Damon
Nonetheless, Dan Graziano of the Newark Star-Ledger reports that the Yankees have been calling around to see if anyone’s interested in Damon. The Braves have a touch of interest, but obviously there are many obstacles. I imagine the Yankees are stuck with Damon. Hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Great!!!!
NOT
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this
Shaun
Sorry for the comment, I just didnt know that Ryan Howard salary was the same as sosas salary. I far as i knew Ryans price was about 2 or 3 times (if not more than that) the price for sammy….. I must be misinformed.
By The Maestro
July 26, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
Fist Franco now names like Damon and Sosa are popping up. Please……..are the Braves starting a retirement home for aging playing. Maybe Hammering Hank can come back and pinch hit. I am sure he could give Woodward a run for his money at the plate. What position would Sosa even play for the Braves…. LF? Don’t think that is that position is hurting us defensively or offensively..
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 26, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
So if Smoltz wins 2-1, it’s because he’s a good pitcher, but if the Braves lose 2-1, it’s because of their “inconsistent offense”? Who’s supposed to be watching these people to prevent self-injury?
By bigboi
July 26, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
When Sosa arrives we will have a killer bench in Harris, Diaz, Escobar, and the old man, bring on the post season!!!!!!!
By Typical braves fan
July 26, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
I must R-E-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E-L-Y disagree with Bob, Journalist even (though) I don’t even know WHAT the heck he just said, and Seldom ever [do]. GO B-R-A-V-E-S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!folks
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
todd
I have seen braves hit good pitchers this year, more than once. Braves cant hit pitchers they have not seen or have seen little, that has been a WS and interleague issue over and over again.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
Savannah Guy,
That was classic. I appreciated it!! Please repost for those who missed it.
Will,
Nice dig. Braves are fifth in offense. Why, because they have had alot of blowouts to balance the meltdowns. The difference between you and me is I think the Braves are better than fifth. You think its OK. W-L record supports this. Pitching expectations were murky this year with the starting pitching(Smoltz/injuries, Hudson/declining, James/youth, Hampton/recovery, 5th starter/who knows. They have performed admirably given the circumstances. They are doing better than expected. The BP is worse, but only because Gonzales is hurt. The offense has bright spots but can’t seem to get enough big hits to better the 54-48 record.
BTW, you’re showing your chickenshit colors again by trying the gang up strategy. What’s the matter, you and LEW break up?
By Scoff
July 26, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this
I agree we have to make the Tex deal ASAP before a big team like the Yankees or Red Sox get desperate and do something stupid.
Smyrntown David- by the way, Clemson is takin not only NC State, but GT again this year just like last year on ESPN Gameday baby. Sorry I know I am bringing up bad memories or that night full of “Thunder and Lightning.”
By Joe Schmoe
July 26, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Man, I can’t believe some of these people bashing the Braves trades. This is the same GM who has had people go on record saying they don’t like to deal with because he can steal a player from you and leave you with something he didn’t want anyway. Unbelievable. The only person that believed the Soriano for Ramirez trade was fair was Seattle’s GM, when Gonzo comes back next year and Lillibridge is stealing 30 bases a year in the bigs while Laroche is still hitting .260 we’ll all laugh.
The JD Drew trade? We traded our trash(King and Marquis) plus a nice prospect for 2 key cogs on a playoff team. You make that deal again, and again and again if it means you make the playoffs and have a shot at the WS. JD and Eli had career years, King and Marquis are no longer Cardinals, and Wainright has had elbow problems twice already in his young career(two years ago and earlier this year). Yeah, he looks promising, but he could also blow out his arm and be done. Good grief.
You know the hold up on this deal is JS trying to convince the Rangers to take the prospects he wants them to take. He’s talking up Dan Smith instead of Harrison or Reyes, and probably trying to throw in Blanco and another lesser prospect instead of Lillibridge or Elvis and trying to get an arm that will not just help this year but in the future. He’s probably pushing for Wilson who’s under control a few more years or for Gagne so that if he leaves after this year we can recover draft picks. If it gets done we are a better team this year and next year immediately and if both the guys we get are gone in 2009, you can be sure we’ll have some high draft picks to have an opportunity to turn into future stars.
By LT
July 26, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Trading Salty for Texeria is not going to kill the Braves future. In the immediate future, it will greatly enhance their chances this year and next. They are going to need a good veteran bat next year when AJ’s gone.
Why is it impossible for the Braves to sign Texeria? AJ’s money will be gone and won’t Hamp’s contract be over?
Don- you’re acting like a some dude that’s afraid to ask a girl out because his last girl dumped him.
By Voice of Reason
July 26, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
Tad:
You said *Saltalamacchia, Elvis, and Harrison/Davies for Teixeira & Wilson/Gagne.
What a great deal for both sides!*
Actually, Salty, Brent Lillibridge, and Harrison (who realistically wants Davies?) for Teixeira & Wilson/Gagne makes better sense. The Rangers are pretty set at middle infield, but could use a young outfielder. Lillibridge played some CF in college and might be a better, and quicker, fit. Plus, I personally value Elvis more than I do Salty.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
Todd A,
Have you been paying attention?
I agree that the Braves could use improvement in certain areas on offense but I disagree that the offense has been any more inconsistent than most other teams.
Again, let me show you the evidence and we can let everyone else decide if your right or the evidence is right. It’s not about me being “way off.” It’s about either you are right or the evidence is right. I’ll go with evidence over any human being (including myself) any day.
The Braves have scored 4 or more runs 62 times. Eight teams in all of baseball have done it more and many of those teams play half their games in great run-scoring parks.
Also, the Braves are 5th in the NL in runs scored per game.
It’s hard to argue that the Braves offense has been any more inconsistent than most other teams unless you just want to ignore the evidence.
By Paladin
July 26, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
Look out Typical braves fan. There are “people” on here that do not take kindly to jokes at their expense. They also have legions of DHs to come to their “rescue”.
By csg
July 26, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
DOB, how would not resigning Andruw free up payroll. Andruw makes $15 mil this year, Hudson makes $7, and Smoltz makes $8. Smoltz goes to 14 and Huddy goes to 13 next year. That covers almost all of Andruws current salary doesn’t it
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
Overlord,
Point is strikeouts aren’t that much of a concern. Teams with a lot of strikeouts often score a lot of runs.
I think it would be stupid for Sosa to come here because the Braves already have corneroutfielders that are doing just fine, not because Sosa strikes out too much.
I could care less how often the Braves strikeout, as long as they score a lot of runs. And teams can score a lot of runs and strikeout a lot. It happens rather often.
By Midnight Earl
July 26, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
Clemson sucks. Tammy Bowden is the WORST coach in college football and I hope you all resign him for another 10 years. Thunder and Lightning? More like Overcast and Partly Cloudy.
By atlbravesmania
July 26, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
jojoreyes sucks , cmon , braves need another starter , maybe javier vazques or contreras or garland ..
trade jo jo the clown , saltamalachia , kyle davies and elvis andrus
By Colin
July 26, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
If we can land tex, wilson/gagne then do it. If we trade away a few good pieces well at the end of 2009 we will get some draft picks if Tex walks, which i dont think he will because he will like playing in Atlanta and he will tell Boras how it is.
By Rick Roberts
July 26, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
Seems most approve of the Texas deal—I hope it happens! Salty, Andrus, and Harrison for Texeira and C.J. Wilson would be great. I’ve seen Wilson pitch enough to know he is tough. We don’t want Gagne or Mahay! Then, sign Texeira!!! The Renteria rumor to CWS is intriguing as Escobar is ready. We get younger and move salary. Will miss Edgar, though. AJ will be dropped this winter which is great news!! Brandon Jones moved up to Richmond—I think he will get first shot next Spring. Willie Harris is there, for sure. Next years team will be much more balanced, younger, and productive! Couple that with Jo Jo getting his experience and some good young arms coming up fast, i.e. Tommy Hanson, and Gonzalez back—we hope. Wickman will retire, no doubt. Devine might finally be ready, too. This potential trade could really set the table for years to come. The added bonus would be Renteria to CWS for a SP! Also, look at signing Dotel in the off season—he’s not totally back yet, but is close. P.S., I live in KCity and see him a lot.
By Paladin
July 26, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
Sg If it is not too late to answer(I’ve been doing other things): I have had no problem with the blog; my “connection” seems to be operating normally. But, I don’t use a laptop. Then again, my pc is almost as old as Julio. Hope this helps.
By Wolfpack Man
July 26, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
Smyrntown David
I think the Wolfpack’s struggles in football agianst GT (excluding 2005) have been more than covered by their dominance in basketball over the Jackets.
I do agree with you 2003 was the last year the Braves truely had a championship caliber team.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
Where have the home runs gone? This team is showing a lack of power since May 1st.
By BamaBrave
July 26, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
I see Shaun is already picking them off from the clock tower this morning…
Regarding the Salty-Tex/Drew-Wainwright flashbacks… I don’t think anyone has been asserting that the deals are exactly alike, but obviously you’d just hate to get burned and lose the guy who becomes the next Jason Schmidt. I’d rather give the Rangers the next Bruce Chen. Fairly obvious, but it’s a concern. In JS I trust.
Having said that, I suspect this deal would give us the shot in the arm we need, with the potential to rival the deal that brought McGriff here. We won’t play .700 ball like ‘93, but we won’t have to, either.
By Will
July 26, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this
Tampa, I think the main ultimate difference between you and i is (and i know i am gonna get killed for this) I am really not that worried about offense or pitching cause ultimately this is not a playoff team. They will fall short of the Mets by at least 5 games and they will also miss the wild card by several games. I used to argue with all my non-braves fan friends til i was blue in the face cause they would say Braves would choke in the playoffs and every year I would say its going to be different. I dont care if the Braves are 5th, 1st, or 10th in offense or anything else, i will be rooting for them, but i just think they are gonna fall short this year.
By bigboi
July 26, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this
I know we have corner outfielders but by bringing Sosa in with the trade it sures up our bench.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
What universe are you in man? There are meaningful statistics and then there are statistics that don’t mean s**. You subscribe to the latter. If you think our offense is performing that well, then we’d be up 7 games by now. But its not so that statistic you keep quoting is meanless. Book smart, but no common sense.
Will, Let’s not fight man. Sorry for the slam earlier. And would you please call LEW and tell him to stop banging on my door. He sounds p**.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
Yes, in answer to questions from several of you, it could be Lillibridge instead of Escobar. A myriad of possibilities have been discussed with the Rangers, including the names of all the Braves’ young infielders. But Braves would like to keep Lillibridge and WILL keep Escobar….
Patrick, all the hits that were accumulated by players while they were with the Braves are used in a team’s batting stats, whether they’re traded, released, etc. Doesn’t matter. You bat in a game, the stats count in the team stats forever….
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 26, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
I’d take Sosa’s bat over Woodward or Franco’s coming off the bench any old day of the week. I wouldn’t take any of them as a starter, and I wouldn’t target him in a trade, but if he’s a throw-in, I’d welcome him with open arms. Sosa’s batting .333 with a .436 OBP .615 SLG vs. left handers. Plus he’s got more homers and rbi’s than the man everybody is drooling over, Teixeira. So y’all are telling me you wouldn’t take his bat over anybody we currently have on what I have recently dubbed “dead-pecker-row?” Think about it, folks. Any clothes will fit a naked man.
By Renegator
July 26, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
Muts game in 15 minutes - let’s hope O Perez gets shelled. Come on Pirates!
By Hoosier Aaron
July 26, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
I guess I’m in the minority - but I do not think we should pull the trigger on this deal as quickly as others apparently do. While I’d love to have Tex - we just traded away a potential Gold Glove 1b with power. To make this deal happen - I think we have to get his contracted extended - 1 year and a couple of months is not enough - especially knowing AJ is all but gone. I also think we must get ALL the pieces - we cannot go to the playoffs with Wickman as the closer - I doubt we’ll even make the playoffs with Wickman as the closer. The starting pitching is good enough for the regular season - but we need one more front-line type starter for the playoffs. Smoltz & Hudson are great but you need that third horse. We should have learned over the last several years - weak bullpens don’t win it for us - especially since Bobby has a quick bullpen trigger. So what I’m saying is - the Mets have let us stay in the race even though we have played very well…if we have an appetite for blockbuster deals - let’s make a couple of deals that move us up in the Tigers Neighborhood. The Twins are sinking - how ‘bout a call for Joe Nathan & a call to Leo for Erik Bedard. We have talent to make deals - Go big or stay at home!
By BamaBrave
July 26, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this
PLEASE GAWD, NOT SOSA!!!!
By Will
July 26, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
Tampa Brave, Sounds good, although i dont even remember ganging up with Lew or anything he said. You probably gonna get one me now cause i say i dont think the Braves arent gonna make the playoffs, i just hope that is not taken the wrong way cause its not like i am not rooting my a* off every game, and would love to have every last word about them not making it shoved down my throat.
By Rodger
July 26, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
How about a stat check pon how many times the Braves have scored 8 or more, vs how many 2 or less? That will average your 5/game, but 2 runs won’t win many.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
Shaun what i meant was that sosa is another AJ, rally killer, hack the ball or K. I dont like that. Plus as u said, where do u play him?
Everybody have noticed that the mets are as mediocre as always, if we were on a pace to win 95-100 games as years past the mets would be exactly 3.0 games behind us, thats a 7 game difference.
By NO CHOP ZONE
July 26, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
I was told that Texeira’a numbers aren’t that great away from Texas. Any truth to that brave fans? If that’s the case it might not be such a great deal after all because The Ted won’t feel like home to him until maybe next year……
By Thrillhouse44
July 26, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Is Sosa playing full time in TX? If so, do you really think he’d be happy riding the pine for us? Seems like he knows how to divide a clubhouse.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave,
Consistent, good offense doesn’t necessarily mean that a team should be running away in their division.
Philadelphia has scored more runs than anyone. Where are they? The Marlins have scored the third most runs in the NL and where are they?
Baseball is more than just offense.
I think runs and number of games scoring 4 or 5 runs is pretty meaningful in terms of measuring offense. Scoring runs is kind of the point of offense, isn’t it?
Darn evidence and fact and truth…getting in the way of what I think of the offense!
By TheSouthernJackAss
July 26, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
So how far in the hole do the Braves have to fall before Bobby Cocks gets enough ‘looks’ at how proficient Julio Franco is at non-hitting?…a supposed championship caliber team with Mets reject Julio “Freakin’” Franco as it’s everyday first baseman!…make Julio the hitting coach, and let Terry Pendleton hold up the fence full-time, from the outside…no wonder Mets fans come in here to unleash their A$sClownery…
By bigboi
July 26, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Why are you guys so down on Sosa coming to town? As Hillbilly said, his stats are actually better than Tex’s, I think Sosa will give us a much needed shot in the arm.
By Arkansas Braves fan
July 26, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
I hope this trade is done soon. I am glad the braves are in love with Escobar. He has the tools to be a real star. I would trade Salty before Escobar because we have McCann locked up and Pena is not a bad backup.I’m afraid that if Wickman does’nt stop blowing up at the end of games none of this will matter. I would love to see Gagne in this trade and become the braves closer. Tex and Gagne,without any more injuries and the braves have no excuses not be in the World Series.
By Scoff
July 26, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Midnight Earl
Clemson sucks. -The only reason they have not won the ACC recently is because of Tommy Bowden. The team is not that bad at all.
Tammy Bowden is the WORST coach in college football and I hope you all resign him for another 10 years.-100% agree to this. Thunder and Lightning? More like Overcast and Partly Cloudy. -Name a better duo of running backs in the nation.
P.S.- 1) How many Receptions/Yards/TD’s did Calvin Johnson have against us last year? 2)And what was the score?
1) 0/-4(rushing)/0 2)31-7 Clemson
By Serge
July 26, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
If the Braves are so happy on Escobar, they better get him an everyday job fast. Wasting your future SS in a platoon situation for 2 years is wrong
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You are a car salesman dude, aren’t you. AND you sell Kias, right.
to a prospective customer
SHAUN: Yes let me show you the statistics about how the Kia Spectra finished 5th in J&D Power total quality rankings. Forget the Camry, Accord, and Altima. Statistics show the Kia outperforms 55% of the cars in its class. I’ll even throw in floormats because statistics show, without floormats, your carpets is 10 times more likely to get dirty.
Customer: Dude, I just stopped in to take a whiz.
Shaun (in Dealership bathroom): Statisics show that holding your urine can cause bladder problems in 42.3% of men over the age of 25.
Customer: Do you mind standing over there, you’re creeping me out.
By Chuck James is solid!! (Formerly Steve-O)
July 26, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
CHUCK JAMES IS SOLID!!!!!
Hudson, Smoltz and Cox for Kolb and Mike Maddux!! I know Robert’s down…
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
Will,
Our pitching staff is better than theirs, especially the bullpen.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
Rodger,
Good point. The Braves have scored 2 or fewer runs 27 times. 16 teams have done it more than the Braves.
The Braves have scored 8 or more runs 21 times. Only 5 teams have done it more times. And 2 have done it as many.
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
Just got this from a reliable source that covers the Rangers after I inquired about what folks in Texas were saying:
“Think right now the priority list goes:
Dodgers
Braves
Angels
The Dodgers would have two major league ready position players (loney and ethier) to go into the Texas lineup. Plus Texas would almost certainly get a high-ceiling pitching prospect in the deal. … Braves are offering a player similar to loney, but the second and third players are not quite on par with what the Rangers think or want to get from L.A. …. The Angels would really have to come up with an offer significantly better than the other two to get Texas to deal Tex inside the division. …. I think Braves might be most realistic deal, but Dodgers is most preferred if Rangers can tweak the package a little. …..”
Regards,
Jason
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 26, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Braves Fan
What part of the state are you from?
By Lew
July 26, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave-I swear you are a complete damn fool. Yes, last night was a loss due to lack of offense. However, you idiot, there was no lead handed to the bullpen last night like there was in the past 5 BLOWN SAVES. If the relievers take over with a lead, then the offense has done it’s job-it has provided the team with a lead. It is up to the bullpen to hold that lead, not up to the offense to provide MORE of a lead so they have a margin for error. Only a complete and utter moron would not see that you are comparing apples and oranges and coming up with grapes. If your team hands you a lead, then how many runs you score is a moot point. The bullpen’s job is to save the game, whether it’s a one run or a three run lead. That’s why, if they do their job, they get a save-because they SAVED the win. It would be a real nice thing (though it’s never been done by anyone ever) to knock in every run on base. It will never happen, but closers and set up men are asked to preserve one run leads all the time. It’s their reason for existence. If we outscored the opponents 30-1 every night we wouldn’t need a closer now, would we? The fact that you fail to see this just proves you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’ve been told by at least half a dozen besides me that you’re wrong. Dude, give it up. You are flipping wrong and that’s all there is to it.
By Arkansas Braves fan
July 26, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Please get Gagne in this deal. I cannot stomach anymore Wickman blowups.
By GeorgetownKid
July 26, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Mr. O’Brien (and whomever else that may know),
I have read reports that the Red Sox have a AA pitcher who is “absolutely untouchable” in trade discussions.
My question is, do the Braves have any prospects that they would thusly classify?
I would guess not, as we are openly discussing the possibility of trading our top prospects in Salty, Elvis, Harrison, and Jo-Jo.
By Ron
July 26, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
I would trade Salty, Harrison, or Davies, Thorman, Dan Smith, and Devine for Tex, and CJ Wilson, or Gagne!!! No way I include Elvis!!! I hear alot of Brave fans keep on saying well they are all prospects, they may be good, they may not be!!! Yes that is true, but Chipper was once a prospect, so was McCann, Frenchy, KJ, Andruw, James, and alot of others that have been our prosects that have done Great!!! Yes they could be duds, or could not!!! In the deal that I offered up is more than enough for Tex!!! If not adding Elvis was a deal breaker, then so be it!!!
By Rick
July 26, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
It would only be worth it if they can sign Teixeria to an extension. Boras is his agent and if I recall the Braves have another player, Andruw Jones, who agent is also Boras and talks with him about an extension arent going well. I would give away the prospects if they dont expect to sign him. Boras would definitely want Teixeria to file for free agency and not sign an extension before then. Not sure its a good idea.
By Lee
July 26, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
If this Texas - Atlanta trades falls through for whatever reason I will never take a trade rumor seriously again. This one for some reason has grown enormously compared to most. I do believe J.S. is probably the one holding it up for reasons concerning which infielder or pitcher to include in the deal and for which pitcher the Braves will receive. It may go down to the trading deadline with one team calling the other teams bluff (like a poker game) in order to see which one will cave.
It is not that Sosa would not be good off of the bench but Cox (as much as I hate to say this) will keep Woodward because of the various positions he can play and if Salty is traded, Pena would come up. Escobar certainly is not going anywhere. Unless Franco or Thorman is cut loose I just don’t see how there is any spot on the team for Sosa.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave,
Okay, how do you measure a consistent offense?
If the Braves score 4 or more, 5 or more, 6 or more, 7 or more, 8 or more runs more often than most other teams in baseball, how do you say they aren’t consistent?
If they score 2 or fewer runs less often than most teams, how do you say they aren’t consistent?
I’m not sure what’s wrong with relying on statistics to answer the question is the offense consistent. Maybe I’m missing something.
Yes, statistics are useless if they aren’t true or if they don’t tell you anything. But tell me why how often the Braves score a certain amount of runs is meaningless.
Look it up yourself:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/situational.shtml
No, you’d rather criticize the people that use stats to find answers than actually look for yourself. It’s more convenient for you to just assume the Braves don’t have a consistent offense, for some reason.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
Todd A, I completely agree with your 11:07. Yes, there is evidence to show the Braves have scored 4 or more runs a bunch of times, and those of us who’ve watched the games this year have witnessed the evidence that an alarming number of games have been lost by us not being able to score more than 1 or 2 against a crappy team’s no-name lefty starter. I appreciate your ability to compile stats, Shaun, but take a pole. It’s unusual, and it doesn’t make any sense. Better yet, since even if the players lined up and told you the same thing you’d tell them they were wrong, why don’t you settle the argument by looking up the stats. How many games have we lost this year to lefties, and how many runs did we score in those losses? That won’t even take into account how pathetic we’ve looked in the few wins we’ve managed to scrape out against them and got lucky. Winning a few games 14-2 and averaging it out doesn’t prove evidence of anything other than sometimes we score a lot of runs. That isn’t the point. Say two cars are drag racing for 1/4 mile. If one car accelerates evenly and runs it smoothly while the other spins its tires at the start, sputters a few feet, catches on and runs 400 mph for a little further and then blows the engine and coasts to the finish line in a cloud of smoke at about the same overall time as the other, the “evidence” tells you the cars ran the same. The “evidence” to everyone who watched it tells them car A ran normally and something was noticeably off with car B. There is of course nothing wrong with looking at things the way you do; that’s your business. It’s just it would be nice if you’d admit it’s your opinion and not The Fact That Proves Everyone Else Who’s Watched The Game Doesn’t Know What They’re Talking About instead. I hate to tell you this, but there’s been more than a little “evidence” gathered over the centuries that if you’re the only one of an enormous group who sees the exact same thing everyone else does and has a singular opinion that they’re right and everyone else is wrong, while he/she may be right the odds are against it. Feel free to cite Galillao or Jesus as examples to the contrary, and I’ll quickly point out that you’re Shaun instead. :-)
By Will
July 26, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
The Southernjackass, I like the post about Julio Franco i couldnt agree more and his problem is, as someone (cant remember who) said on here the other day, not even his bat speed its the fact that his reaction time is flat out not there anymore. I direct quote last night said hold on i am gonna watch Julio strikeout and then go to bed, and about 5 pitches later that is exactly what happened and that is how sure i am that its a joke. I hope they trade for Tex and cut julio. I wish i could make 200,000 from one company, plus what he makes from his previous employer for producing the way he does. it is a travesty.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
From A Clemson Guy since birth, take it from me, Bowden is the worst. With a kickass offensive line and two of the best RBs in the country last year, he still imployed his arena ball strategy and played to our weaknesses. This will be his last year, regardless!!
By AthensBrave
July 26, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
Will,
Did you lose hope over night? Was it the 2-1 loss? Yeah, it sucked…but c’mon man, have a little faith!!!!
By Rick
July 26, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
I dont think its 50-50 as well. The Yankees are involved and Big Stein always has away of convincing teams to give them there best players for prospects that are over hyped and very overrated. Texas is still getting killed by the A-rod for Soriano deal.
By Arkansas Braves fan
July 26, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Jason, I hope your source is not so reliable. The Braves have got to have this deal or there is going to be some very disappointed fans.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
JasonInMaine… the question is…
Do the Dodgers feel the same about the Rangers? I think not. They’re not gonna trade Loony (their 1B), so it seems unlikely.
By Cornholio
July 26, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
What sense does it make to trade your very near future (Salty)to Texas for a guy that may not be here after 2008 ?
Lets trade Edgar for more pitching. Let Andruw go after this season.
2008 Lineup:
CF: Willie Harris SS: Yunel Escobar 3B: Chipper Jones C: Brian McCann RF: Jeff Francouer 1B: Jarrod Saltalamacchia 2B: Kelly Johnson LF: Matt Diaz or Brandon Jones
By unloading Edgar & Andruw that leaves a pile of money to acquire another starting pitcher & beef up the bullpen.
This would be the best lineup in the NL by far & a legitimate contender with the right pitching acquisitions.
Say no to Mark Teixeira ! (unless you can sign to a multi-year deal - NOW !)
By Salty
July 26, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Shaun Teams with a lot of strikeouts often score a lot of runs.
Now, I don’t read everything written, but you don’t normally post something that outrageous. I mean, how do you justify that remark? Wouldn’t the opposite hold equally true? What’s a lot…either way?
By geauxbraves2000
July 26, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Team A scored 1000 runs in two games. The next 50 games, they did not score a single run. They lead the league in runs far and above, (with an average of over 19 runs per game) but have a record of 2-48.
Geaux Braves!!
By Arkansas Braves fan
July 26, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Hillbilly, I am from Springdale.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
Lee,
You can take trade rumors seriously. The Dodgers may very well just have a better package of players, and I believe they do. Gerald Laird is serviceable enough. The Braves don’t have the pitching prospects to get this done. I can’t imagine them getting Gagne in the deal either. The guy is a free agent at the end of the year. The Braves are really pushing their luck. They better make the playoffs if they make this trade.
By Paladin
July 26, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
Let’s lock Shaun and Tampa Brave in a room, padded of course, and may the best statistics emerge. Of course, neither would have listened to the other, just as I doubt that they read any posts out “here”, but their own. If you begin with the premise that “you” are right, regardless, how can there be a discussion?
By Jared
July 26, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
My sources tell me JasonInMaine has no real souces and is about reliable on current trade buzz as a magic eight ball.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
The Grinch and Todd A,
Apparently you missed the specific numbers of teams behind and ahead of the Braves in scoring a certain number of runs in a game.
The Braves have scored 2 or fewer runs 27 times. 16 teams have done it more than the Braves.
The Braves have scored 8 or more runs 21 times. Only 5 teams have done it more times. And 2 have done it as many.
The Braves have scored 4 or more runs 62 times. Only eight teams in all of baseball have done it more and many of those teams play half their games in great run-scoring parks.
How is the number of times the Braves score 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8+ runs irrelevant to how consistent their offense is?
Darn those stats that tell us how often the Braves score 2 or fewer runs or how often they score 4 or more runs! They are meaningless!
By Tomas
July 26, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
Mark Texeira certainly is a big star, no doubt about that, and I agree the Braves need to make a change in offense to catch up to the powerful New York Mets, especially when all there players are coming from injury, including Pedro Martinez, and Moises Alou.
The problem is Texas is asking too much, they don’t only want Salty, but also Jo-Jo Reyes and Elvis Andrus. If I were Braves GM I would not give up Reyes, and would ask for C.J. Wilson or Eric Gagne. This would be my trade offer: - Jarrod Saltalamacchia C/1B - Lance Cormier P - Elvis Andrus SS for - Mark Texeira 1B - C.J. Wilson or Eric Gagne P. PLUS SOME MONEY FOR TEXEIRAS CONTRACT.
AND KEEP EDGAR RENTERIA AT LEAST UNTIL HIS CONTRACT IS OVER.
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Braves Fan,
Unfortunately, the source is reliable. But, as DOB has mentioned, these things change all the time. I still think the Braves will get it done as I do not think the Dodgers will meet the Rangers’ asking price. But it appears it may take a little longer as Texas will probably hold out hoping to get their desired players from LA.
I wonder what Plan B is if the Texas deal falls through. You know JS is trying other things as well…
Regards,
Jason
By Salty
July 26, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Midnight Earl
Clemson Sucks
Fightin’ words, bud!
:-)
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Mets 1-0 after 2 innings.
By Lew
July 26, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave-You do realize, of course, that my arguement with you is totally different than the case Shaun is trying to make? Yes, I realize that lack of offense on certain nights has led to a loss. I also realize (and actually agree) that another bat in the middle of the lineup may well add to our offensive production, especially given that Andruw has lapsed into his evil twin, yet again. I also agree that our bullpen is better than this recent stretch has shown and may well get us through the season (though some extra arms WOULD also be nice). The point I’m making, however, has only to do with the recent blown saves. I don’t think it matters at all if the bullpen is handed a 15-14 lead or a 2-1 lead. In this instance, the only thing that matters is that we have the lead. The offense to that point was sucessful enough to get us a lead. If the bullpen holds that lead, we win the game DESPITE not scoring more runs. If the bullpen gives up runs then they didn’t do their job. I fail to see how you can fault the offense when it was the bullpen who failed. I’m sorry I called you an idiot. Anyone who ever drove the Howard Frankland during rush hour (even if you live on the wrong side of the bay), deserves SOME respect. I just can’t understand why you fail to see this particular point. It’s very clear and quite logical.
By Bob, Journalist
July 26, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
Shaun Payne, it’s just after 11:30 here and I have a conference call in a few minutes so I’ll be brief … your 8:49 was well conceived and written and I appreciate the response.
However, I feel that you, at least to some extent, (a) doubt your ability to effectively communicate, or (b) doubt my ability to understand or (c) both.
That is to say that you made your position clear the first time … you really did.
That said … I suppose that if most of the other teams are as inconsistent as we are, then we shouldn’t be concerned about becoming consistent.
The performance enhancing substance issue is certainly complex … and to posit anything relative thereto is probably much ado … however, opines are permitted and these are mine.
When one’s behavior is such as to bring material discredit to the game, regardless of the specific issue, the penalty should be banishment with disdain … I that it is the responsibility of the Commissioner to make such decisions.
Baseball has decided that it violates the intended spirit and thus the integrity of the game to use certain performance enhancing substances … and made it against the rules to so do … anyone who knowingly violates such rules should be banished, first offense, no exceptions.
The recognition of the accomplishments of anyone found to have so done after such recognition has been given should rescinded.
Personally, though I rant, I have absolutely no interest in records that cross clearly demarcated eras … except as one of the available subjective elements that can be used in the comparison of the eras themselves.
Ruth’s home run records are in no way comparable to those of Arron, McGuire, Bonds or others … Bond’s career HRs are more comparable to Arron’s, were they not tainted.
The pursuit of individual records in a team game is a multiple edged blade and should be kept in proper perspective … those who do not should be shamed, not honored.
Ruth was dominant; Arron was consistent.
Bonds was a highly talented player whose objective evidently became making money and breaking records, seemingly without regard for propriety.
Collecting things is fun and can be profitable … but, something is lost in translation when the things you collect are made for the purpose of collection.
Well, maybe there was as much positing as there was opining … that too is complex.
For those who find themselves in disagreement with me without understanding what I am saying … I do empathize. However, while it’s perfectly acceptable to make fun or chide my misuse and/or abuse of the language … to agree or disagree with that which you don’t understand is doing yourself a disservice.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 26, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Braves Fan,
Looks like we got both ends of the state covered. I’m from Smackover, (Near El Dorado) in extreme South Central AR. Welcome aboard.
By Jmart
July 26, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
The Julio Franco experiment should end. Having him in the 8th spot is a killer. He is a rally stopper and if leading off an inning we get to the lead off hitter with two outs. Meanwhile Salty and Thorman lose “at bats”. The only way one of them progresses is to have playing time. Of all the moves JS and BC have made (Woodward, Stulze, Ledezma etc) the Franco move is baffling. He was a great team player 2 years ago while he still had some batting skills. Its obvious that he is not the same player today, physically or mentally (taking called 3rd srikes). I can understand not playing Salty (don’t want to have him injured if we are trying to trade him) but I go with Thorman or even Diaz at first long before Franco.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
how do you justify that [teams with a lot of strikeouts often score a lot of runs]? Wouldn’t the opposite hold equally true? What’s a lot…either way?
Salty,
Marlins have scored the third most runs per game in the NL, yet lead the league in strikeouts.
geauxbraves2000,
We aren’t just talking about total runs scored. We’ve also been talking about how many times the Braves have scored 2 or less runs in a game, how many times they’ve scored 4 or 5 runs in a game.
Yes, you can look at their total runs scored and have a clue that the Braves are a consistent offense. But you can look at how few times they score 2 or fewer runs and how often they score 4 or more runs and get a better clue that the Braves are a consistent offense.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
I think Jason’s post about the source in Texas is correct. I would imagine that is the order of preferrence for the Rangers. I just can’t imagine why the Dodgers would trade Loney when Texeira could be gone after 2008 and Loney is raking. I also have a hard time believing the Dodgers would trade both Ethier and Loney considering that they could need Ethier in the outfield next year if they are unable to bet Hunter or Andruw. However, with saying all that I think that would be one hell of a deal for the Rangers. The problem is that I think the Rangers want a pitching prospect that can be in the majors next season and I just don’t see the Dodgers giving them that along with Ethier AND Loney.
The Braves have the most realistic offer and if it takes Salty, Lillibridge or Andrus and Harrison or Davies, the Braves should do it. They have the depth to take the hit. Especially with the middle infielders.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
It’s been said 100 times, here and elsewhere, that Jo-Jo Reyes isn’t being offered by the Braves, that they almost certainly won’t part with him, that it’d be Harrison or another prospect. So either cite where you’re seeing anything about the Braves trading Reyes, or stop bringing it up. Because you’re making things up yourself if you just keep raging against trading a guy that no one is suggesting the Braves are going to trade….
Rick, “Big Stein” has a way of connvincing free agents to sign. It’s called an open checkbook. But that’s irrelevent when it comes to making a trade to a team that wants young talent, top prospects in return.
By rammerjammer
July 26, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
JasoninMaine,
Very interesting post. The one thing Salty has over those guys - and I bet this is what the Rangers are ruminating over - is that he’s a catcher.
Loney is a terrific hitter, but good first baseman are easy to find (except in Atlanta, LOL) and Ethier is a Matt Diaz type (contact hitter, not much else).
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
The Braves are averaging 5 runs a game. Their ERA is 4.50. Therefore, the Braves will finish the season 162-0. That is the logic being thrown around by people (Shaun, Coach) who refuse to look at the evidence in front of them. Yes, the bullpen has caused some problems lately, but I watched games all season where the Braves pitchers pitched well, but the Braves hitters could not muster anything against mediocre starters…Smoltz’s two losses to Sean Bergmann anyone?????? Just because a team averages 4.5 to 5 runs a games does not mean they are conistent. And scoring 1 run and handing a 1-0 lead to the bullpen does not take the offense off the hook for only scoring one run.
By Roger
July 26, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
Is it possible a trade for Tex would be contingent on negotiating a contract extension? If that were the case, I’d give Salty and Elvis and a pitching prospect in a heartbeat.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
LEW, You old crumugeon,
I see its been mostly you, your housemate Will, and Shaun, who is insane. So your gang up on TB BS is just that. Your one dimensional thinking is a handicap you just can’t overcome.
Thanks for making my point before you went into hypotheticals with the bullpen. The offense scored 1 run, AGAIN. SCOREBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
58-40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The bullpen will be OK if we get a servicable lefty(see my Ledezma take).
Stop banging on my door.
Will,
If you want to win a championship and offense is supposed to be your team strength, the comparing yourself to also rans is not productive. They’re not going to score every runner that gets on base(Lew’s rant), but they have to capitalize on the opportunities they are given and they aren’t doing that to the level they are capable. Alot of it has to do with AJ, the rest is 1st base, which has been chronicled over and over(see today’s AJC). If I’m so way off base, then why the big push to get Tex? Why isn’t JS pushing Salty for Frod or Jenks? Your evidence is subject, which means its not credible.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
LEW, You old crumugeon,
I see its been mostly you, your housemate Will, and Shaun, who is insane. So your gang up on TB BS is just that. Your one dimensional thinking is a handicap you just can’t overcome.
Thanks for making my point before you went into hypotheticals with the bullpen. The offense scored 1 run, AGAIN. SCOREBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
58-40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The bullpen will be OK if we get a servicable lefty(see my Ledezma take).
Stop banging on my door.
Will,
If you want to win a championship and offense is supposed to be your team strength, the comparing yourself to also rans is not productive. They’re not going to score every runner that gets on base(Lew’s rant), but they have to capitalize on the opportunities they are given and they aren’t doing that to the level they are capable. Alot of it has to do with AJ, the rest is 1st base, which has been chronicled over and over(see today’s AJC). If I’m so way off base, then why the big push to get Tex? Why isn’t JS pushing Salty for Frod or Jenks? Your evidence is subject, which means its not credible.
By Lew
July 26, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Maybe we need some contract clarification here, y’all. First of all, Renteria is not just signed through next season. There is a club option for 09, as well. If the team declines to exercise that option, then the Red Sox are responsible for the buyout. The way Edgar has been hitting since coming to Atlanta, I would think serious consideration would be given to exercising that option. Now Andruw-If he is not signed, we gain $13.5 million in salary. However….Hudson alone receives a $7million raise next year (and the way he’s pitching it will result in a way cheap salary). This only leaves $6.5 from AJ’s salary-not the whole thing!!!! Add to this that Smoltz receives a raise and they would be well advised to sign Francoeur long term, and you have to realize that there’s not going to be a lot left from AJ’s departure. Now, yes, Wicky and his $6 million may well retire, but we’re still not left with enough $$$$ overall, to pay for a Ted Lilly, Jason Marquis type pitcher (using last year’s salaries for comparison-God knows what will happen THIS offseason), much less pitching AND a centerfielder. Now Chipper-he is signed (with option that it looks like he will easily make) through 09. Hampton’s contract, however, will end after 08. Just clarying things somewhat. There have been some radical misconceptions.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
In the meanwhile, can we get some Matty D. at 1B, please???
Julio came in hitting .200. He’s doing worse than that with US!!!
By Renegator
July 26, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
So, Oliver Perez is owning the Pirates. Damn, we are going to have a hard time keeping up with the Mets. We need a trade fast…
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
Jmart, so the Julio experiment should end after one week of games, and after he lined a ball to straightaway center last night that legitimately would have been a three-run homer when the ball was carrying earlier in the game, before the fog rolled in and the air got heavy? The Julio experiment should end after one week, but the Thorman experiment should continue even though he’s hit .196 with 22 RBIs and mediocre defense in 64 games (199 at-bats) since April 30?
OK, makes sense to me.
By the way, Julio will be out of the lineup today. Cox already said he’d rest him in the final game of the series.
By N8
July 26, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave
LOL! at you 12:14.
Shaun, I enjoy your “stats” as much as the next guy, being a stat-guy myself. But THAT was funny!
:-)
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
Jared,
You know, I don’t normally take time to respond to posts such as yours, but since you are such an annoying little boy; I guess I will.
I have better things to do than to come on this blog and make stuff up. The content I provided was from an e-mail from a person that covers that Rangers. How much does he/she know? I have no idea. I would expect that it is certainly a heck of a lot more than you know…about anything. Believe it or not…I really could care less.
But, while people certainly may disagree with my opinions, thoughts, etc; I have too much respect for DOB, Carolina Lady, Savannah Guy, Lew, Bob Journalist, Journalist Jimmy Smith, KC, Ron Roberts, Matthew Walter’s Dad, The Grinch, Wayne In Utah, and many others (excluding you) to come post something that I simply made up.
Again, feel free to discredit every thing I say; it doesn’t really matter that much to me. To steal a line from one of the songs DOB recently used:
“It doesn’t mean that much to me to mean that much to you”. In other words, keep your pie hole shut when it comes to me. Thanks, I appreciate it.
Regards,
Jason
By Lee
July 26, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
Efrin
You are probably right about the overall package deal the Dodgers can offer. More-than-likely the main holdup about that trade has been the Dodger’s refusal to include James Loney in the package. Gerald Laird is a sufficient catcher for the Rangers. If the Dodgers - Rangers make this deal it will be interesting to see which way the Braves turn.
By Scoff
July 26, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Glad to see I’m not the only Braves/Clemson fan in here… just as long as there are no Met/C** fans it will be ok.
Efrim- I agree if we make this trade, we have to make the playoff… no excuses.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
Shaun, the fact that you guys argue by citing how often the team scores 3 or less and how often the team scores 5 or more just validates the notion that this team’s offense is vastly inconsistent.
Grabbing another “hits-for-average” right-handed bat or switch hitter would help us overcome that, because we’ve seen how much this team struggles against lefties. Feast-or-famine offense hasn’t done enough for us to lead the division.
Getting a guy like Teixeira would make the ills of the bullpen less consequential, I say. Last night’s game is a prime example, though. No matter how good or bad the pitching would’ve been for us, last night, we’d have lost.
We’ve addressed a key problem with our rotation, thanks in large part to the surprise success of Buddy Carlyle, and the presumed arrival of Jo Jo Reyes. But those guys, along with Smoltz, Hudson and James can pitch their collectives butts off, but if we can’t beat any johnny-come-lately lefty, we’ll always be on the short end.
Do I want us to address the bullpen? Hell yeah; but I want an offensive upgrade first. I think bullpen fixes are easier to make happen, frankly.
But sitting here arguing that our offense is good enough to win the division, just doesn’t hold, for me. I’ll go even further and say that our offense isn’t good enough to win the World Series, either. Give us Teixeira and I’d put our lineup against anybody elses.
We can then say that about our 4-5 deep rotation quailty and our lineup; then we can tinker with our bullpen to make it work. We’re close to having an effective Lance Cormier back, and let’s remember, he was a bullpen guy before he started for us a few games last season. We’re supposed to be getting Tanyon Sturtze at some point, too, aren’t we? (DO’B… what’s the story with that, anyhow???) And I think picking up a reliever arm will more than likely come with the Teixeira deal if we make it, anyhow.
By The Grinch
July 26, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
How did I just know you’d answer my question by repeating the same stat you applied to a different question in bold print instead? Shaun, when you sleep with your wife (and I’m just assuming you do), does she ever just say to you, “Wow, that was (better, worse, different) than the last time.” Do you respond by saying “Well actually, honey, I timed it and it lasted exactly the same number of minutes and I used the same number of strokes; the evidence tells me that you’re wrong and it was exactly the same as last time.” I’m not trying to be rude, really; I’m just trying to do something, anything to appeal to the human part of you that must at some point watch the game you seem to care so much about. When I notice that the Braves look like crap against a team and pitcher that they shouldn’t, I don’t NEED to look it up in a book to tell me if the “evidence” suggests they looked like crap or not. I could give a %$#% how many times they’ve scored X number of runs; if that was the only thing I was concerned about there’d be no need to watch, now would there? I could just look it up and the end of every season. Oh, to hell with it; I’ve been caught up in this before and the “evidence” has shown me that I’ll get absolutely nowhere. Forget I said anything, Shaun…I gotta go anyhow.
Later, all.
By Midnight Earl
July 26, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
Maybe I should have added in my Overcast and Partyly Cloudy comment that I meant against my Gamecocks. Obviously those guys are top notch, just not against us…anymore.
I’m not a Clemson hater like most Gamecock fans…obviously I don’t like them but I don’t go out of my way to hate them. Having said that Tammy Bowden is why you haven’t won more. He is just a bad coach. Rich Rodriquez is the reason for your 10 win season and also why you haven’t hit it big since he left.
Just glad we have Spurrier and won’t have to worry about having a bad coach…
31-28
By P-Town Brave
July 26, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
No, it should just end w/ us picking up Tex and Gagne…
That’s WHY it should end!
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
The offense scored 1 run, AGAIN.
The Braves have scored 0 or 1 runs 17 times this season. 10 teams have done that as many or more times. And most teams in baseball have done it around 15 times. There aren’t many teams who have done it a lot more or a lot fewer times than 15.
So the Braves aren’t exactly away from the pack of major league teams in terms of times scoring 0 runs or 1 run.
By John B.
July 26, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
Cornholio: Are you kidding me? Getting rid of Edgar doesn’t leave us with “piles” of money left. We are hardly paying for his salary.
By Scoff
July 26, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Hillbilly I visit Farmersville, LA about every year. Right on the Ark./LA border. We drive up to El Dorado to get Spudnuts all the time. Ever heard of them?… amazing.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
BravesDave,
JS should sign you because you are a great reliever.
I have been pitching my a* off, getting LEW to ground out, getting Shaun to pop up, and struck out Will looking(he was too afraid to look). I hand the ball over to you and you closed the door.
KUDOS!!!!
LEW,
If we hand a 15-14 lead over to the bullpen and we lose, then the entire pitching roster for that day, including the starting pitcher are the culprits. If hand a 2-1 lead over and lose, I ask why did we only score 2 runs. Was the opposing pitcher that good that he could shut down a team with all these good hitters, exccluding 1B? More times than not his year, the answer is no.
By Lew
July 26, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave-In the case of a blown save, where a lead is given up, the offense, no matter what their shortcomings (and yes, I acknowledge their existence) is not at fault-the bullpen is. In circumstances like last night (or the 5 of 8 losses for Chuckie where the Braves scored a total of 2 runs), yes, the offense is at fault for not capitalizing on chances. I have never disagreed with your assertion, here. But you’re comparing apples and oranges. The bullpen MUST hold leads when given them in late innings, like they did 5 times in the past week. There will always be runners left on base, no matter how unfortunate, but a lead is a lead, no matter how small and must be maintained to win. I still don’t understand why you can’t make this distinction.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I was under the impression that Chipper needed 450 Plate appearances next year to get that option exercised for 2009.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
How does talking about how often they score fewer or more than x number of runs validate the “inconsistency” of the offense?
They score 2 runs or less less often than most teams. They score 4 runs or more more often than most teams.
That doesn’t mean the Braves shouldn’t try to get someone to make the offense even more consistent; no one is saying that. But the offense has been more consistent than most other teams.
The Grinch,
The issue is: is the offense consistent? Some say it is, some say it isn’t. The evidence suggest that it is at least as consistent as any other team. The issue is not what they do against certain types of pitchers. You are the one who brought that up. No one was even talking about that.
By Adam
July 26, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
If the Braves don’t end up with Texeria, Salty needs to be the full time first baseman or a move needs to be made. Julio Franco isn’t an everyday player and shouldn’t even be a part-time player. He’s a pinch hitter at best. His bat is slow. Age has finally caught him. I don’t care that he hit a ball hard to center field last night. Julio is not the answer at 1st.
By rammerjammer
July 26, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
Common sense tells you that Franco was brought over while the Teixeira discussions were ongoing. Since no one’s interested in Salty as a first baseman, he became exclusively a catcher again to highlight his skills there.
If Teixeira is landed, he may run into Franco at the airport.
If Teixeira is NOT landed, Salty goes back to first, Pena is called up and HE runs into Franco at the airport.
In either case, Franco’s just about done. I’d say no later than July 31.
By The Julio Experiment
July 26, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this
John Heyman of Sports Illustrated .com doesn’t understand the Julio experiment either.
Braves old world • As for the Braves, they are always a mystery to me (and usually everyone else, too). Normally, what they’re really doing goes completely undetected. This year, they’re doing things I don’t even understand. For instance, I’ll never guess why they’ve been playing the elderly Julio Franco at first base instead of young hotshot Jarrod Saltalamacchia. I wouldn’t think Bobby Cox would play a finished Franco just to prove how much they need a first baseman. Or that they’re keeping Saltalamacchia on ice to ensure that he won’t hurt himself and hurt his trade value. I don’t know, maybe Cox is just a Franco-phile at heart.
• In any case, a lot of folks think they’d be nuts to trade the talented and cost-effective Saltalamacchia for a year-and-a-half of Teixeira (who is a Georgia Tech product) since there’s little hope the penny-pinching Braves could keep Teixeira long-term.
• Although Saltalamacchia would be of more help elsewhere since the Braves already have Brian McCann to catch.
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this
This one is from “The Most Overrated Write” of all time as Matty D alluded to him as on Fox:
MARKET REPORT Maybe Teixeira will have to call a moving van between now and next week. Maybe he won’t. But whether he gets traded or not, at this point Teixeira’s situation might be the only ring in this whole trade-deadline circus that’s worth watching. He’s a 27-year-old switch-hitting bomber. He plays Gold Glove defense. And his GM (Jon Daniels) keeps telling other teams that Teixeira is going to the Hall of Fame some day. So “of all the guys out there [on the market],” said one scout who watched Teixeira recently, “this guy is the only real difference-maker.” But beware of reports that the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox and Giants are all over him. The consensus of clubs we’ve surveyed is that the only teams that are seriously contemplating paying Texas’ Neiman Marcus sticker price are the Braves and Angels. And just the Braves appear prepared to do what it would take to make this blockbuster happen. What it would take is the inclusion of rising star Jarrod Saltalamacchia. And that, according to one baseball man who has been in touch with both sides, is a decision that is “still being debated” in Atlanta. “It’s not a given. But it’s not impossible. In fact, it’s probable.” But we’re hearing that for the Braves to include Saltalamacchia, they would want more back than just Teixeira. There are rumblings they are also trying to pry loose highly regarded left-handed reliever C.J. Wilson, and Texas is balking at that. But indications are that the two teams now have the outline of a potential deal that would send Teixeira and Wilson to Atlanta for Saltalamacchia, shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and a pitching prospect (possibly much-touted left-hander Matt Harrison). If that deal falls apart, Texas might not have nearly as many other options as advertised.
Jared, you can Click Here in case you think I am making this one up as well…
Regards,
Jason
By Bob, Journalist
July 26, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
Rephrasing “… they have to capitalize on the opportunities they are given and they aren’t doing that to the level they are capable” … “regardless of the strength of our pitching, the team needs to better capitalize on their scoring opportunities”.
The meaning is different but it’s true that improvement is needed in that area. however, that in no way addresses the need to to trade or to address the problem with our current players.
David O’B, your comments relative to what is going on in the trading arena seems more definitive than in the past … has the posture of team management changed relative to the amount of information being released?
Got to run … hopefully back this evening before game time.
By Colin
July 26, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
PLAYER OF THE DAY JARROD SALTALAMACCHIA Catcher, Atlanta Braves Long regarded as one of the top offensive prospects in the game, “Salty” could end up having been the key to the biggest deal of this year’s trade deadline. Late last night, the Braves and the Texas Rangers were said to be close to a deal that would send first baseman Mark Teixeira and a relief pitcher (such as C.J. Wilson, Ron Mahay or Joaquin Benoit) to Atlanta for Saltalamacchia, shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and a minor-league pitcher.
WOW read for urself http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/118542421988410.xml&coll=1
By Eugene
July 26, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
We will not make a splash before the reade deadline. Not sense the days since we had a real owner (TES TURNER) have we made a deal. And let’s face it, Andruw will be gone and we will be stuck with another light hitting low cost outfielder in center. As far as moving Salty. We will keep him because he is cheap. We are quickly becoming the Kansas City Royals South…
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
Lew,
By the way man. The Mets are a lot better than you give them credit for. Look at what Oliver Perez is doing to the Pirates right now. Their offense is overrated and will probably cost them in the postseason, but they have two starters right now in Maine and Perez that are solid. They aren’t unbeatable nor uncatchable, but you should give them a little credit.
By BravoFan
July 26, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
I have a feeling this is going to be just one more trade rumor in Atlanta that gets my hopes up. This would make my day though if we could somehow get Tex. We have been in need of a solid first baseman for years. And I’m tired of the Braves being in the shadows of the big time trade deals. Let’s make a move!!
By Colin
July 26, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
Muts 1 Bucos 1
2 and 3 2 out for the Bucos
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
Perez just made a throw on a bunt he fielded…..into rf…… pirated tied game…….runners on 2b and 3b. 1 out. BTW…… delgado is a worst fielder than salty and thorman. Can tell by a play i saw.
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 26, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
No amount of stats, facts, or distribution curves is going to change the mind of a baseball fan who owns a contrary perception. Might as well give that up and get on with your life, unless you just happen to like the way the blood from your head looks on the wall. You’d get a hundred definitions of “consistent offense” from this blog, and any team would most often fail the test of all of them.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
What is our backup plan if we can’t acquire Tex?
Dmitri Young is nearing an extension with the Nats.
Scott Hatteburg might be a possibility.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
pirates 2 pop outs…….2 down now…….still runners on base
By Colin
July 26, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
3-1 BUCOS OVER METS IN THE 6TH!!!!
2 run single by NADY
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
LEW,
You are so one dimensional. In football, you hear the athletes themselves, after they missed a FG to win the game, say that if we’d capitalized on those opportunities, then the point of the FG would be mute. Same concept, different sport.
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
Pirates 3-1…Nady comes through. The Pirates had runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs, but the next two batters didn’t get it done. Nady came through with 2 outs!
Regards,
Jason
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this
allstar 3b david wright couldnt handle shot to 3b, E5. 2 runs score. Pirates lead 3-1 in the 6th. Shot hit by Xavier Nady, so he nailed back his exteamates. BTW, that perez guy is a very good pitcher, i have to admit, and he is still young, very young.
Is any of the mutts bloggers around? or are they under the carpet?
By Colin
July 26, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this
Josh Phelps 2 run hr 5-1 BUCOS OVER MUTS
By Lew
July 26, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave-The point is not how many runs we score, nor is it that we could do much better scoring runs with all those runners we’re putting on base. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT (clear enough?)-we could do MUCH better and should and hopefully will. But if the bullpen is given a lead-ANY LEAD-in the 8th and 9th inning (or any inning, for that matter)-their job is to hold that lead. Period. It is totally immaterial, irrelevant and a moot point at this place in time how many runs have been scored. YOU HAVE THE LEAD. IF THE LEAD IS MAINTAINED, YOU WILL WIN THE GAME. That’s all there is to the situation. The goal is to win the game. There is no rule that it doesn’t count if you only score 1, 2 or 3 runs, even if you could have scored more. There is no qualifying column in the standings, just W’s and L’s-nothing saying how many you scored on the road to those W’s and L’s. Yes, the bullpen’s job would be much easier if the starters went 7-9 innings every night and if all they had was mop up duty because we had capitalized on the RISP-but that isn’t their purpose in the game. It is to preserve leads when handed to them, not b!tch ( not that I’ve ever heard a reliever argue this- only you) that we should have scored more runs so they wouldn’t have blown a save. If the relievers had done that 5 times this past week, we would have a better record, we wouldn’t be 4 games behind the Mets and you wouldn’t even be having this argument.
By Interested Observer
July 26, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
There are reports that Dmitri Young is close to a 2-year extension with the Nationals, so you can take him off the block.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
2 run shot by some guy named phelps…… 5-1 pirates and perez is still in the game. Randolph is even worse that bobby. Wonder why they are not a .600 team.
By Selling the Future/Risking it all?
July 26, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
Teixeira/Gagne for Saltalamacchia/Davies/Andrus would be a success only if : The Braves resign Teixeira long term , win the World Series. That’s a tall order. I think that Cox isn’t the only major figure contemplating retirement. I think that Cox/Schuerholz are trying to win one more before they ride off into the sunset and the future be damned.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
he has 110 pitches…….. in the 5th………and i though cox was an eedeeot
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
phillies losing to nats…… wow, i though the phillies and the mutts were the powerhouse around. go braves!!!!!!!!
By ArkyTech
July 26, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Good to see the Natural State is well covered on this board.
Has anyone else noticed how much McCann has struggled defensively this year? For whatever reason, he isn’t moving his body to block pitches in the dirt - even off-speed pitches. This kinda baffles me and I wonder if there is an explanation.
By Colin
July 26, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
Overlord
DUH THERE IN THE CLOSET
By Lew
July 26, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
Efrim-Even so, he has over 350PA already this season, despite missing 24 games, with 60 games remaining. I sincerely doubt that 450 PA is not attainable-easily. He is leading the league in hitting, too. Besides, even if he falls short, the Braves could still opt to exercise the team option-the PA just make it automatically fulfilled.
By Salty
July 26, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
Midnight Earl
31-28 Just hope you don’t wait, how many years, for another W. I’m no Gamecock hater, either…too many friends for that. I am glad for a competitive series…should be fun. No comment on Tommy.
Clemson roll-call: Scoff TampaBrave NCScoots (apparently in hiding)
Still vastly outnumbered by Dawg fans…to no surprise!!!
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave ,
Thing is the Braves haven’t gone into the 9th only scoring 2 runs that often compared to every other team in baseball.
Yes, every now in then the Braves and every other team in baseball are going to go into the 9th only scoring 2 runs. You can’t play 162 games without doing that in several games. But the Braves haven’t done it as often as a lot of other teams.
And the Braves are 21-19 against under .500 teams. They are 33-29 against above .500 teams.
By Rick
July 26, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
You people are dreaming. The Braves’ run is over! The Braves have played 4 losing, crumby teams since the break, while the Mets have played San Diego and L.A., and we not only didn’t lose ground…we gained 2.5 games!! The Mets are gaining ground and putting you away….AGAIN!
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
My take on why the trade has not happened already:
Texas is sitting on it. They have probably 2-3 offers, and are playing the waiting game, as the longer it takes, the more desperate some GM’s might get. They are probably hoping that one will cave and offer a different part (say, Reyes instead of Harrison….purely an example).
Now, if the interest wains from all but one trading partner, then I would see the Rangers pulling the trigger, as now the partner is in the drivers seat. Waiting too long can devalue your trading commodity.
I have always said, to get the best deal on a new car, you gotta be willing to walk away. Nothing works better in negotiations than the ability to NOT get emotional.
My greatest fear is that in 2009, if Teixeira does NOT resign with the Braves, I will have to listen to many of my friends here luminate about how STOOPID John Schuerholz is, and HOW in the world could he have traded away our future for a 1.4 year rental.
I think the Braves chances of signing Tex would probably be 50/50. So, are you guys who want this deal willing to sign a disclaimer saying you will NEVER rag on JS if Tex walks in 2009?
Blog on folks!
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Shaun… blah blah blah. You can throw numbers all ya want, dude. This team’s offense doesn’t perform well against lefties, by and large, and our record against ‘em (as starters) is fairly indicative of that. We tore the cover off the ball two games in the St. Louis series, and since then, things have cooled a bit. We scored 2 on Sunday, 4 on Monday, 7 on Tuesday (4 in regulation, mind you….), and 1 last night.
I’m not saying 4 runs is chump change, but it’s not an offensive triumph, either. Most MLB teams sport 4.00 or better ERAs, and that’s just the earned runs they average giving up. So raise the bar a bit when discussing the offense, alright?
And I don’t give a damn how our 0,1 and 2-run games compare to the rest of the MLB. Let’s pare that down to contenders, alright? Contenders tend to have at least one facet about them that you can say is their strength, and our starting pitching hasn’t been, yet, nor has our bullpen, and I dare say, our offense hasn’t been, either. Remember the interleague stretch?
Detroit, Boston… we had two blow-em-up offensive games in those three series, and won 2 games. Average out our runs scored in the three series vs. Boston, at Boston and vs. Detroit, and it doesn’t look that bad.
In those 9 games, we scored 30 runs, or 3.3 runs per game. Take away that 14-run game in Boston, and our 7-run game vs. Boston at home, and it’s quite a bit different.
In the 7 games left to delineate, we scord 9 runs total, or less then 1.5 runs-per-game.
Shaun, wouldn’t you have to agree, then, that of all the contenders in the AL, the likelihood of us (should we get to the World Series) facing either Detroit or Boston would be pretty good?
We need Teixeira to have a chance.
We need a better, more consistent offense; better than the one we have or already have, if saying that pleases you, Shaun.
By Baron
July 26, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
Hey JS, since we know you read this blog, let it be known that the Baron approves of the trade for Texiera and a reliever. I mean, we all love Salty, but his real value is at catcher, and we have a good one of those. Andrus and Lillbridge might be hot prospects, but they are still just prospects. Same goes for Harrison and Reyes. Break it down:
We get: 1. A 27 year old gold glove masher for the stretch run this season and all of next, possibly signable beyond for less than Andruw, who is most likely gone after this. Who fills two gaping holes on the team- first base and cleanup. 2. A solid major league reliever to shore up our aching bullpen.
We give: 1. A first string major league catcher with possible all star potential. 2. A minor league infield with potential. 3. A minor league pitcher with potential.
I think it’s pretty clear that this is a trade worth making. Thanks for taking the time to consult with me on this, JS. You’re a real mensch.
By Salty
July 26, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
*Shaun Marlins have scored the third most runs per game in the NL, yet lead the league in strikeouts.
So? Just how many strikeouts does the worst scoring team have…is there a statistically significant difference? Actually, don’t worry with it.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
My point made in the last post
*By Selling the Future/Risking it all?
July 26, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this*
Teixeira/Gagne for Saltalamacchia/Davies/Andrus would be a success only if : The Braves resign Teixeira long term , win the World Series. That’s a tall order. I think that Cox isn’t the only major figure contemplating retirement. I think that Cox/Schuerholz are trying to win one more before they ride off into the sunset and the future be damned.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
I think Texas is sitting on this trade because they’re waiting to see how desperate the Yankees and/or Red Sox get as their race either tightens up or doesn’t.
By Midnight Earl
July 26, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
You know what??? This deal was leaked so early and is taking so long, the media is beginning to have a field day…see the comments and links above.
You know JS is upset it got out when it did.
By Eugene
July 26, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
I hope the Brave stand pack with the team they have. I believe the platoon systems gives them the best chance of winning down the strech. I have faith this organization will come together just as the post season begins. That is if management does not keep tinkering with the team chemistry.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
I read someone posted that the braves offense has underachieved, he might be right. Mutts offense has done a better job of underachieving. Only 1 regular above.300 (reyes) and his BA is lower everytime i check, slowly but surely coming down, I suppose is a product of noone hitting the ball behind him. Wright is close to .300 and thats it everybody else is below .275. That team would be behind us if reyes was not around, he is carrying them just as chipper carries us. Everytime i watch a game he scores at least one run. The rest of the offense zux.
Another E5 by wright……i though he was an allstar, wasnt him?
pirates score again, so we will get our chance to pick up ground.
LETS HIT THE BALL TODAY BOYS…………
another run as i type……..7-2 pirates.
Werent the mutts killing teams they were supposed to beat?
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
Clemson Roll Call
Proud Clemson grad here! Not a Gamecock hater, but have NEVER liked that whiner who is now coaching down in Columbia. Out of HS I was accepted by both, so I pull for both schools until they play each other. It is dang hard to pull for SS though.
BTW, out in Utah, it is either the Utes or the Cougars. Personally, I pull for them all. GO WEBER STATE!!!
:-)
By ssiscribe
July 26, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
O’B, see how the Phils won that game last night, when Langy and (I believe) Church ran into each other, the Nats bobbled the relay and JimmyR circled the bases, then Howard hit a bomb in the 14th?
That is the type of win that can galvanize a team and get them rolling. I really think the Braves, with Teixeria and another arm in the pen, are the favorites to win the East. But it wouldn’t shock me if the Phils are nipping at the Braves heels down the stretch, while the Mets slip to third.
Good news, indeed, that the Mets and Phils both are losing. But as we found out Sunday, when Matt Kemp dropped that fly ball in L.A. to let New York tie the game in the ninth, it’s never over. Need those scores to hold, and need the Braves to take care of business at Barroid’s Place later today.
Also, would help for the Cards to actually show up for their biggest week of the season (since they’ve already lost twice) and beat the Cubs, and for Arizona to lose to the Fish while San Diego falls at Houston.
Yeah, that’s a lot to ask. But get ready, folks. It’s gonna be like this the rest of the way, I believe. Very, very tight, down to the final week.
UPDATE on the AJC/Man In Black Scoreboard: Mets down 8-2 now, while the Phils are up 3-2.
The Scribe abides.
—30—
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
I tend to agree with you…if they can talk the Yanks or Sox into giving up one of their top pitching prospects…
Regards,
Jason
By Baron
July 26, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
BTW JS, I know I was saying just a week ago that pitching was the thing and the only thing, but looking at what is available I see that a decent starting pitcher acquisition is just not really possible. If the choice is between Matt Morris/Jason Jennings and Texiera, well, ain’t no contest. Also, you have to be encouraged by the performances of James/Carlyle/Reyes lately and it looks like Cormier may finally be ready to return. So go forth, my Captain, and make the Braves prosper with all blessings.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
mutts bullpen zux, they are getting hammered by the buccs.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
Clemson Roll Call
Proud Clemson grad here! Not a Gamecock hater, but have NEVER liked that whiner who is now coaching down in Columbia. Out of HS I was accepted by both, so I pull for both schools until they play each other. It is dang hard to pull for SS though.
BTW, out in Utah, it is either the Utes or the Cougars. Personally, I pull for them all. GO WEBER STATE!!!
:-)
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
With the pitching the Braves have and the pitchers they are not likely to get at the deadline, they need better offense.
Actually the NL average in runs scored is about 4.5 per game. 4 runs is a decent cut off. But I’ve shown you how often the Braves have scored 8 or more runs: more than most teams.
Anyway, vs lefties the Braves are hitting .271 AVG/.336 OBP/.419 SLG. Their AVG is 16h, their OBP is 20th, their SLG is 14th in all of baseball. So basically they are an average offense against lefties. (Actually they are above the NL average in all three categories vs. lefties.)
The Braves aren’t bad against lefties but they aren’t great either.
If the Braves get into the World Series, they have a shot against anyone. Look at last year’s World Series. The main goal should be to win as many games as possible and get into the playoffs, not to try to match up against who they might play in the playoffs or World Series.
By Scoff
July 26, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
Salty I saw that 31-28 little tid bit and only laughed…63-17? Clemson leads 63-37-4 all time record? I guess you could say I am a gamecock hater. I do plan to go to LSU/USC game at LSU to watch the game this year just to see USC lose hahaha.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
8-2 Pirates. Their pen better not blow it.
By Paladin
July 26, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this
Lew Do you ever feel that you are arguing with a stump?
Tampa Brave Just how deep do your roots go? :-)
And all Dawgs: Here we are behaving ourselves and talking baseball and not Dawg’s ball, and these people start with Clumpsun, N.C. Staight, Free Shoes Univ. and all. Much more of it and I say, let’s let ‘em have it with both barrels.
By Overlord
July 26, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
midnight earl whats your panic about? we are in the driver sit. Take it easy. The mutts didnt put us away while chipper was out and our 3-5 SP were as bad as royals. What makes you think they will do so now that we are clearly better than 6 weeks ago?
mutts are losing 8-2 at home against a team that has lost 10 out of 11 since the ASG…… their bullpen is even more tired than ours and things are not looking good for the offense……. we just need to win some series and we will get them very fast.
By Jared
July 26, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this
Something tells me Schuerholz will fail to make a trade and do his best “Baghdad Bob” impression to the AJC sportswriters.
“I believe the Braves are just fine as is. Julio Franco is a capable first baseman. The starters of pitching much better. Lance Cormier will be back soon and throw a perfect game.”
By Jared
July 26, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this
Something tells me Schuerholz will fail to make a trade and do his best “Baghdad Bob” impression to the AJC sportswriters.
“I believe the Braves are just fine as is. Julio Franco is a capable first baseman. The starters are pitching much better. Lance Cormier will be back soon and throw a perfect game.”
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
And Shaun, I’ve shown you before how often the Braves follow up those 8+ run performances with 3-runs or less the very next day.
And sorry, sport, but if the current Braves’ assemblage got into the World Series against Detroit or Boston, we’d not only not have a chance, we might get swept. We gotta have Tex to have a chance, and frankly, with the ages of Chipper and Smoltz, now’s better than later.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
DOB, have the Braves inquired about Ty Wiggington or Ryan Klesko as a cheaper option or a Plan B to Texeira.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 26, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this
ArkyTech,
We’ll be callin’ the Hogs before the end of the day at this pace. I don’t know what McCann’s deal is but he is definitely trying to backhand those pitches instead of shifting to block them.
Scoff, Tuesday is Spudnut day in the office. One of our vendors brings a box from the Spudnut Shop in El Dorado and we go through them faster than the Braves Bullpen can erase a rack of ribs. And yes, I’ve been through Farmerville a time or two.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this
Gotta say, the more I see of the Mets, the more I think the Braves and/or the Phillies will overtake them. Just not a big difference between the three flawed teams.
Phillies are the hottest among the three right now, and have Howard and Utley to carry their offense.
Rick, I know you don’t pay close attention to baseball, but the Braves played the Dodgers and Padres immediately before the break. And the Mets are playing the Pirates right now.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
My main worry about this Tex deal is that the Dodgers actually do decide to trade Loney. The guy has looked like a potential Gold-Glover at 1B and he is mashing the ball. I know Salty is a catcher and that is a high priority position if you can get a catcher that can hit, but Loney looks awesome right now. A lot better than Salty at this stage…and the guy hit .380 in the minors last season. Ridiculous. I worry that the Rangers will jump on that deal and shut down the Braves.
By Chop Chop
July 26, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
It’s a damn shame the Dawgs don’t play “Clempson” this year. We could have provided the coup de grace to Tommy Bowden, a.k.a. “The Rasputin/Wayne Fontes of College Football.”
By BamaBrave
July 26, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
What were you saying about Oliver Perez, Lew?
Kidding.
The suspense of this possible trade is killing me…I can’t imagine what it must be like in the Braves clubhouse. I know DOB addressed this yesterday to some degree, but it would be too wierd. I suspect the team will play better as soon as this is all over, nomatter what happens.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
Salty,
Just look throughout baseball history and this season. Strikeouts have little correlation to runs scoring. Often times teams that K a lot score a lot. Often times teams that K a little score little. How often a team makes outs is much more important than how they make them.
By Monsieur Bobby Cox
July 26, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
“I don’t know, maybe Cox is just a Franco-phile at heart.”
Certainement, j’aime toutes les choses françaises. Je porte un béret à la maison. J’aime manger une baguette chaude avec du bon fromage et un merlot gentil des sud de la France tout en observant un film de Francoise Truffaut. Sartre est mon philosophe préféré. Il a dit : “Être est. Être est dans-soi-même. Être est ce qui est il.”
J’aime fumer Gitans et aller aux musées d’art. Il est regrettable que Dave O’Brien et les ventilateurs du Braves ne me connaissent pas vraiment.
Il est regrettable, mais c’est la vie. La vie est tristesse.
By GSU-Lee
July 26, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
DOB, How do you feel about trading Salty? If your finger was on the button, would you do it? If we got Tex, would we be able to re-sign him?
P.S.- from a college journalism student, you do a phenomenal job with the Braves Beat.
By PutMeInCoach
July 26, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
I just read on SI.com that the Yankees are interested in shopping Kyle Farnsworth. They even mention the Yankees potentially picking up part of the contract.
I don’t know if this is posted and I will try to find the link.
Farnsworth would be a good addition to this bullpen given his familiarity with the coaching staff and the team in general. He’s also an upgrade over Yates, who’s been miserable lately.
By Baron
July 26, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
DOB, have you heard any scuttle about turning Escobar into a center fielder? He’s packing heat on that right arm, seems to move well, and 3B and SS are filled through the end of next. Seems like a waste of that arm to move him to 2B and put Kelly back in the OF if we plan to keep both next year. Also, are these kids Andrus and Lillbridge so highly regarded that JS might consider moving Escobar? I’d think that including him in the Salty/Tex deal could push it over the top, bring in that Gagne/Wilson reliever that we need. I’m not advocating this, just curious about how high they are on the aforementioned farmhands.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts
And sorry, sport, but if the current Braves’ assemblage got into the World Series against Detroit or Boston, we’d not only not have a chance, we might get swept. We gotta have Tex to have a chance, and frankly, with the ages of Chipper and Smoltz, now’s better than later.
I agree. Lets get there first. In fact, even if we do get Tex, I wouldn’t be completely sold that this team would win the division.
By BamaBrave
July 26, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
Sorry Lew…I meant Ephrim
Apparently, my post-lunch brain-drain has reached new depths…
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
DOB
You jumped all over me Sunday morning after the Mets lost on Saturday and the Braves won that same day. So after Sunday’s debacle, the Mets beating up on the Pirates two straight days, the one day they are losing you decide to say the Phils or Braves will overtake them?
They still have a 5 game lead over us in the loss column. We could get shelled tonight and still be the same number of games back.
I agree they are flawed, but they still have a 5 game lead over us and the Braves haven’t exactly played consistent baseball yet.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
Have you? And if you have, is it a lot?
I’m guessing teams follow up 8+-run performances with 3-runs-or-less performances every once in a while. I’m guessing it’s not all that unusual.
What is offensive consistency besides scoring a lot of runs more often than most teams? And the Braves have done that. And they’ve scored few runs less often than most teams.
Again, this has nothing to do with whether or not the Braves should improve their offense. They should improve it if they can. You can’t have too much of anything—offense, defense, pitching, whatever.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this
Apr 5 @PHI W 8-4
Apr 6 NYM L 1-11
Apr 10 ATL WSN W 8-0
Apr 11 ATL WSN W 8-3
Apr 12 ATL WSN L 0-2
Apr 15 ATL FLA W 8-4
Apr 16 ATL @WSN L 1-5
Apr 18 ATL CHC W 8-6
Apr 19 ATL CHC L 0-3
Apr 22 ATL @NYM W 9-6
Apr 23 ATL @FLA L 7-8
Apr 24 ATL @FLA W 11-6
Apr 25 ATL @FLA L 3-4
Apr 27 ATL @COL W 9-7
Apr 28 ATL @COL W 6-2
In the first month the offense was good, statistically, but woefully inconsistent! Look at all those times we scored 8+, then followed it up with 3 or less. Five times just in April. Three times they came back the next day with good run production, and five games, they did not.
I can go on….
May 12 ATL @PIT W 9-2
May 13 ATL @PIT L 2-13
May 19 ATL @BOS W 14-0
May 20 ATL @BOS L 3-6
May 22 ATL NYM W 8-1
May 23 ATL NYM L 0-3
There are three more such instances where offensive outbursts were followed up by less-than-stellar run-producing games.
There are five more occurances where the Braves followed up an 8+ runs scored game with a game they scored at lest 4 ormore runs, in all fairness.
Eleven up-down occurances… that’s a good bit.
By David
July 26, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this
And the Mets are playing the Pirates right now.
And what a bang-up job they’re doing. Pittsburgh is up 8-4 heading into the 9th.
By Kathy
July 26, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
Trade rumors make me nervous. I’m just not sure it’s worth it in the long run to give up Salty for Tex. Will the Braves be able to pay Tex the amount of money he’ll want?
By Midnight Earl
July 26, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
Overloard, no idea what you are talking about…you must have gotten me confused with someone else on here. I’m not panicking about anything and didn’t make a comment about it. No worries.
Ahhh, 63-17…living in the past now aren’t we? Yeah, we haven’t had the most storied program but I must say our future looks brighter than Clemmons does…even if you can’t stomach a winner like Spurrier, you have to admit the guy can coach. He’s the Bruce Dickenson of college coaching…he puts his pants on one leg at a time, except he wins national championships!
By Ronald Millsaps
July 26, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
The trade simply is unnecessary and would NOT improve the team. Mark Teixeira is a fine player, but we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg with Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and to trade our young prospect (not to mention others) wouldn’t be very prudent. I hope John Schuerholz realizes what I’m saying before hastily moving to complete a deal that would hurt the team and his fan base. Even if the team can’t re-sign Andruw (it could be done), Teixeira is not needed. Next season’s roster could feature Harris in center, Diaz in left, and Saltalamacchia at first, and if Andruw is re-signed, Saltalamacchia STILL should be evaluated more and not traded. What if Brian McCann goes down with an injury? In five years, Saltalamacchia’s numbers will exceed Teixeira’s now. Bank on it. No….this would-be trade is not a good idea, not at all.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this
DOB
I don’t mean to sound like a Mutts fan, I’m not. But they are still 13 games over .500, and it seems to me that you think they suck. They are flawed. Their offense is overrated, but their starting pitching is good. They have a very good closer, and a hot reliever in Pedro Feliciano. It’s enough to make the playoffs. I’m not saying they are uncatchable, but after every Mets loss, you write a post saying that they aren’t very good. What do you think Mets fans say about the Braves?
By TennesseePaul
July 26, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
Well last nights game was a well pitched game. I didn’t jump on the blog till now so I haven’t been able to read through all the weeping and gnashing of teeth that I’m sure went on. I did see a few bold lettered posts on the Need for Teixeira. We could certainly use him. But a well pitched game is still going to be well pitched with or without Tex. He isn’t going to make us go undefeated the rest of the season. We will still lose games by a run with Tex.
By the way, has anyone done any break down on this score 14 then score 2 business? I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of the low scoring games are against Lefties.
By BamaBrave
July 26, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
I respectfully disagree with your Braves-Sox, Braves-Tigers World Series scenario, Ron Roberts…
I used to think the way you do, but after last year, it’s evident to me that the brutal playoff/tournament process is harder on these AL juggernauts. They beat the crap out of each other just getting to the playoffs and then surviving that process. Yes, the Cardinals got hot at the right time, but those AL teams lose something, IMO, by the time we’re in late October.
Just get into the playoffs, Atlanta. Anything can happen.
By Schuerholzs' Shrink
July 26, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
The trade deadline for the Braves should be now, or at least in the next couple of days. The Braves wouldn’t seem to have the luxury of waiting until July 31st , on any trade involving Texeiera. I would think they have to give the Rangers a final offer and a drop dead “respond or we’re moving on” date very shortly.
If Schuerholz waits until the eleventh hour (July 30-31) and puts all of his eggs in the “Tex trade” basket, he could be the one with egg on his face. The Braves have a few holes to fill and all indications are that they are willing to move pieces to fill those holes. The worst thing that could happen is to be jerked around by the Rangers until it is too late to make a deal with another trade partner that would benefit the team.
I know the JS is talking to other teams about other trades while the Tex thing is playing out, but those side trade talks can go hot to cold in hours if some other team jumps in while the Braves focus is on the “big” deal.
It would suck to walk away with no Tex and no real help in any of the areas where we’ve identified short comings simply because we chased this deal too long.
Gotta have a “deal or no deal” on Tex in the next couple of days, NOT July 31st.
By Colin
July 26, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
And the Muts lose
Lets get a win tonight but Lincecum is pitching so hopefully we will win.
By Shaun
July 26, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
Yeah, a stretch of 15 games and a stretch of six games really tells us a lot about a team, huh?
Do other teams have similar stretches over periods of 6-15 games? My guess is they do.
That’s why I pointed out what the Braves have done so far this entire season.
By Lew
July 26, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Paladin-Yes, and arguments with brick walls are frequent and just as rewarding. I’m wondering just which end of this argument is one dimensional-I realy don’t think it’s me.
By MurphyRules
July 26, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
You guys who want Harris in center field: Have you not watched him this year? Average outfielder at best and nearly cost us the game Tuesday night. Yes, I’m happy he’s having a good season at the plate, but there’s a reason he’s NEVER been an everyday player.
I’ve yet to see anything from Salty that would explain all the hand-wringing over possibly losing him. People act like we’ve traded away all this talent in the past, and they all became All-Stars. Yes, Dye and Schmidt were good for a while and Wainwright is fair, but show me all this other talent we’ve traded that came back to haunt us. I’d say getting players such as McGriff, Drew, Sheffield, etc., were pretty darn good moves. (OK, maybe Sheff was simply a free agent. Can’t remember.)
And quit saying Tex would simply be a rental. With the money Liberty is reportedly going to add to payroll, the Braves will have a better shot than anyone else of signing him after 08.
By TennesseePaul
July 26, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
gotigers: Thanks for the update. I just found it wading through the posts.
Gotta agree with N8, TampaBrave’s 12:14 was very funny.
By Lew
July 26, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
Yeah right-The Mets are great aren’t they? Perez gives up 5 runs in 6 IP and the bullpen gives up 3 in 1/3 of an IP. Yeah, that team makes me tremble in fear. Sure they do. Where’s NOBrainZone now?
By Ronald Millsaps
July 26, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
In addition, kudos to the gentleman who pointed out that the goal is to win as many games as possible and NOT set up potential matchups. THANK YOU. That’s one of the wisest comments I’ve ever heard. You should work to be the best you can be and influence others to adjust to you, not passively see how you can adjust to others. Remember the David Justice trade (not to mention how Marquis Grisson was included)? Remember how Wilson Betemit was given away, essentially? John Schuerholz did very well when he brought Terry Pendleton and Sid Bream in in 1991. In recent years, he has made some very unwise decisions, and I’d hope he’d give this one some serious thought, as opposed to trying to remind everyone who the GM is, if that’s what he’s doing. By the way, the bullpen suddenly looks pretty darn good. I would keep the roster as it is. Again, at this point, it’s all about execution (currently, the hungriest team in this division isn’t the Braves or the Mets; it’s the Phillies!). Schuerholz is a smart man, but this trade concept is not. Last thing: In the meantime, let Willie Harris play left and Matt Diaz first. Maybe platoon Yunel Escobar with Harris, but don’t trade Saltalamacchia!
By Luther
July 26, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
In regards to the games in which the Braves only scored a couple runs, there are other important factors that aren’t shown statistically. How many times in those games did an opposing team put up 4-6 runs on Redman, Davies, Lerew, etc during the first three or four innings. Not that its right, but when teams get down a lot early, they often abandon playing small ball and change their approach at the plate and on the bases. I’m not sure how right I am, but it sure seemed like the Braves were put in that position at least a couple of times early in the season.
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
LEW,
YES, I would want the BP to hold the lead. I agree that is the goal, but BP is just one component in an overall operation, and in assesing that operation, I will take a step back and look at everything. That’s when I say, yes the BP blew it, but why didn’t we score more runs. If we did, this is a mute point.
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 26, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
If the Teixeira trade doesn’t happen, so what? Weren’t many of you here screaming that Saltalamacchia needed to be playing first every day, anyway? Whether he was ready or not? It seems to me that most of those bloggers thought having him at first would be enough to send the Braves on to the postseason all by itself.
Schuerholz doesn’t impress me as a guy to leave all his eggs in a Texas basket, so I’m reasonably certain he has other ongoing discussions on left-handed relief. Worst case is he picks up relief help, and Saltalamacchia plays first the rest of the year. That won’t doom the Braves, contrary to the bleats of some bloggers.
By jed
July 26, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
here are your needs:
—1b —#3 starter —LHRP —and, in my view at least, a closer.
now, if the braves go dropping salty to rent tex for a year, the only justification is to win the WS this year, which, okay, i can understand that. (js/cox/chipper/smoltz/andruw are at the end of the line, yes.)
but if youre gonna do that, you’re gonna get to the playoffs with 2 very solid starters and 2 giant question marks (chucky in the playoffs? hmmm. carlyle? real doubtful.) point being, you’ll need to acquire a solid 3 starter, or hope that jo jo reyes, cormier or villareal suddenly turn into solid 3 starters. (or a solid 4 starter, if chucky can maintain the level he’s at now, somehow. which, yes, i doubt, but that’s arguable as well…)
elsewise..what’s the point of the Tex rental?
plus, does anyone have confidence in wickman as our closer if we get to the playoffs? i mean, does anyone have confidence in wickman at all anymore?
so, whether youre in favor of this gamble of a trade or not probably depends on whether you want to win now or continue building…arguments can be made for either side there. the real question is how many moves do you have to make to get this team in the WS, and can we reasonably make these moves?
and my point is you cant start this process and deal salty and then only take it halfway. if you deal him for teixeira, go all the way with it. but that’s a lot of deals, no doubt. kinda like the marlins approach for winning their 2 rings.
By Mark
July 26, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
As a die-hard Texas Ranger fan, I can promise you that there is absolutely no way the Rangers are going to throw CJ Wilson into the mix on any trade with anybody. He’s being groomed as possibly the next closer for the Rangers. He’s young and cheap. They might include Benoit but most likely will toss in Ron Mahay. He doesn’t have CJ Wilson or Benoit “stuff” but is a very crafty lefty who has done very well for the Rangers this year.
By RonaldMillsaps
July 26, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Willie Harris might not have the most experience to this point, but he’s indeed breaking out, and to say that he couldn’t play center is premature. Jarrod Saltalamacchia has a .300 average and has shown patience and power at the plate (how many times has the guy flown out to the warning track?). Since the payroll IS expanding, the goal should be to talk Andruw into giving the team more time to sign him. Athletes say all the time that they don’t want to leave, and then they leave. In Andruw’s case, he sincerely does have an attachment to Atlanta, and he might be more flexible than he lets on that he would be. The team is playing small ball well. Teixeira’s would-be arrival likely would hurt team chemistry. One also has to wonder how well he’d hit NL pitching, which is better than the AL’s, so don’t tell me the goal is to acquire Teixeira and find a way to keep him; it’s to keep the roster as it is and execute.
By Renegator
July 26, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
Those who don’t want to trade Salty - why not? What are we going to do with him? Play him once a week to give McCann rest? That is a huge waste. Obviously Booby doesn’t trust him at first - that is why we got a 48 year old Muts cast off to be our almost everyday first baseman. And he certainly isn’t going to become our starting catcher over McCann. That leaves us only one option - trade him. He could end up being a bust like A. Marte… HAHA - no one else is really that bad.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
Ronald Milsap, face facts. Andruw is not getting re-signed.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
Ronald Millsaps
Hey dude, no guts, no glory!
It is easy for us here years later to pick apart JS’s trades.
Saltalamacchia is NOT going to be a significant part of the Atlanta Braves, unless he turns out to be a bang up first baseman, which NOBODY is predicting.
So, trade him while his value is high. He is NOT going to get significant AB’s with the Braves. If he doesn’t go now, he will be gone over the winter.
SO, the big question is this: Exactly WHAT do you want/need the most? We can all speculate and say what WE would like the Braves to do, but so far, Mr. Schuerholz has NOT called me up (even though I would LOVE to have a long baseball strategy conversation with him some day…..dreaming again here) and asked me what I think he should do.
Do the Braves feel like a big hitter and a relief pitcher is most needed? If so, then they push for Tex and Gagne/Wilson/Mahay. If not, then you low ball Texas, and hope you get him for less than has been mentioned.
Somebody earlier mentioned that Texas is waiting it out for NY and Boston. Probably, as I stated earlier today. JS will probably give them a drop dead date, then go to work on getting help from some other source.
Sorry so long! (How goes it Lew?)
By TampaBrave
July 26, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Paladin,
Firmly entrenched my good man!!
Don’t get on that one dimensional train with LEW. He’s runnin’ it red hot and the bridge is out around the bend.
By Cle Daniels
July 26, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
I keep reading all these rumors about Salty for Tex. I’ve read on this site that the Rangers won’t do this straight-up, but when I go to other sites and read pretty reputible guys, they are saying the Braves won’t send Salty away for Tex unless an arm is included. I guess that is why we call them RUMORS. I am a Braves fan and keep going back and forth w/ this trade. At 1st I was all for it, but the more I read or think about it the more I don’t know. If I was sure Tex would resign, I would go for it. If not, I might have to hold on to Salty a little longer. He has only played 1st base 13 times and I’ve seen most of them, from what I see, he gets better every time he plays. He won’t forget how “to catch” so the better he gets at 1st the better for the Braves. I have mixed reviews. I know this…I am a true Braves fan so I won’t bash any Braves, Cox or JS. I’ll just trust they want to win as much as we all do, so they will make a decision to help us. Either way, we have a chance to win, that is all any fan can ask. GO BRAVES!!!!
By Jared
July 26, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
When are people going to learn that Saltalamacchia isn’t playing first base everyday? They don’t trust him there. Is that not obvious? Are people that dense? The Braves do not like Saltalamacchia as their everyday first baseman. End of story. Stop suggesting it.
My bet is if Saltalamacchia isn’t traded at the deadline, he’ll be out of here in the offseason. The Braves aren’t moving McCann out of the way, and it’s not wise to keep the guy as a backup catcher instead of trading him for real, useful value.
Some of you people need to take off your rose-colored glasses for Saltalamacchia.
By Baron
July 26, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
Millsaps, which bank should I take that Salty projection to? Does it involve any Nigerian princes?
Ron Roberts, I’m as frustrated as you are with the roller coaster games, but you can’t cherry pick instances as you have done. Shaun’s numbers don’t lie. The ugly up-downs all stick out in our memories while the stretches of consistency fade away. Here’s some cherry picking for you, one hatful for each month:
04/22-04/30, against Mets, Marlins, Rockies, and Phils: scored 9, 7, 11, 3, 9, 6, 7, 5. Record: 5-3.
05/05-05/12, against Dodgers, Padres, and Pirates: scored 3, 6, 2, 3, 3, 5, 4, 9. Record: 6-2.
06/09-06/18, against Cubs, Twins, Indians, Red Sox: scored 9, 5, 3, 0, 2, 5, 6, 2, 9. Record: 5-4. In June they also scored 0, 0, 0, 1, 0 in 5 straight games against Boston and Detroit.
07/03-07/15 (allstar break), against Dodgers, Padres, Pirates: scored 6, 5, 8, 7, 5, 5, 9, 5, 5. Record: 7-2.
So it cuts both ways, my man. Folks seem to mistrust stats because sometimes they seem to disagree with what might have been personally observed. But as has been pointed out, very few actually see every play and every game, and NOBODY has perfect recollection and recall on all the minutia of a 162 game season. That is why we have stats, to keep track of EXACTLY what has happened, and when and in what situation, so that we can refer to those numbers with confidence rather than our sometimes imperfect memories. Statistics are not the enemy. They are tools for evaluation.
By Mo in the boonies
July 26, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
Just adding my two-bits, wasn’t here yesterday, took me this long to stop cussing about Cox taking Hudson out with only one out to go. Jesus Katie Christ, when will he ever learn that nothing in that bullpen is going to be better than his starters. Hudson was calm, cool, and collected, so what if he did walk a couple, he could still have gotten the lone out, and been out of the jam. He didn’t even have a high pitch count, which seems to be the mantra that Cox lives and dies by….mostly dies by. :-(
Regarding the bunt situation, I too think it should be utilized more than it is. If the players don’t know how to bunt, whose fault is that? And if they can’t run out a bunt, or get into home on a bunt, with all the young guys on this team, then they better be running sprints in spring training.
As for the big upcoming trade, don’t hold your breath, if I’m wrong, correct me, but didn’t JS wait out the whole trading period last summer and did nary a thing? He fiddled while Atlanta burned. And if he does make a trade, you can almost bet it won’t be the one the team needs, both he and Cox are more inclined to take another team’s sloppy seconds than get some one worth something.
As for our Starting pitching, we could have the best ones in the country, and it wouldn’t matter, because Cox is pulling them in the 6th or 7th anyway. If we get any pitchers, we’d be better off getting some old starters and putting them in the bullpen, rather than using guys who have never been good enough to play anywhere except the pen.
Tennessee Paul, you said, ” This team as it’s currently constructed has no clue how to win consistently” Just who do you think is responsible for providing them “with a Clue”??? Maybe the team doesn’t have a clue, because the manager doesn’t have one!
mr. baseball I think you and I are in almost complete agreement.
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
RJITB I agree with you dude. You know, as much as I love Andruw and the work he has done over the past 10 years, I am not sure I want to give him big money to stay.
I think at over 10 million per year, with his hitting liabilities, he is overpaid. Also, I suspect he will drop off significantly if he signs a 4-5-6 year deal. He only this past winter decided it was time to lose a few pounds. The money does not motivate him to stay in shape, when it is guaranteed.
In that place, Tex is as good as any to try to replace him. Salty, even if he proved to be a good first baseman, would still not hit his stride for probably 2-3 years. Most don’t.
Gotta run out to Wal-Mart now and “make it rain!”
See you guys on the flip side….
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Lew
Yeah right-The Mets are great aren’t they? Perez gives up 5 runs in 6 IP and the bullpen gives up 3 in 1/3 of an IP. Yeah, that team makes me tremble in fear. Sure they do. Where’s NOBrainZone now?
We still have to beat Tim Lincecum tonight. I don’t understand why everyone is screaming about the Mets troubles. Lets worry about the Braves beating a very good pitcher tonight. If we can’t win games consistently, then none of this matters.
By brian
July 26, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
Looks like the Teixeira trade rumors will continue to dominate the blog. I think it is way too much to give up in Salty, Andrus, and Matt Harrison for Teixeira and Wilson/Gagne without Teixeira locked up for a few more years. Thank you DOB for informing us that Reyes is not being mentioned. I think it would be a mistake to trade Salty but I see the reasoning - if the Braves truly believe that Salty could not be our starting 1B next year after an off season working on it, then he needs to be traded. Although still in single A, the sky still appears to be the limit for the still under 20 Andrus. Harrison is our top lefty prospect who at the start of the season was more highly regarded than Reyes. Could I swallow dealing Salty and Andrus with a lesser pitching prospect (Dan Smith or Davies?) or Salty and Harrison with a lesser IF or OF prospect? Yes. All 3 though is tough and mortgages our future for a probable rental player
By Ronald Millsaps
July 26, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Robert, I wish you’d spell my name right. Anyway, the point is: As unlikely as it might look, it’s possible that Andruw will work with the team, given the fact that he likes it here so much. A lot of guys bolt with dollar signs in their eyes and regret it intensely. Others (Rafael Furcal) seem to want money only and don’t care from where it flows. With team payroll expanding and expanding more in subsequent years, it might be possible to sign Andruw at “x” for next year, followed by “x” + “y”, followed by “x” + “y” + “z”, and it would be worth it to do all the restructuring you can because the man provides great power numbers and defense. He’s also reliable with RISP. Mark Teixeira is incredibly unnecessary to this team I wish people would quit treating him like he’s the solution, and I mean that with no disrespect to him. We simply do not need him. Time to log off. I’ve spent too much time on here as it is. DON’T DO IT, JOHN!! PLEASE!!
By Lee
July 26, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
If the Teixeira trade doesn’t happen, so what? Weren’t many of you here screaming that Saltalamacchia needed to be playing first every day, anyway? Whether he was ready or not? It seems to me that most of those bloggers thought having him at first would be enough to send the Braves on to the postseason all by itself.
It is possible, but for this to happen Cox has got to leave Salty in there regularly and bring Pena up or there is now way this can work. Franco and Thorman must be limited to pinch hitting and late inning replacment players.
By AthensBrave
July 26, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
Hank,
I was just thinking how just three weeks ago, the majority of bloggers were screaming, “keep Salty, don’t mortage our future.”
Now everyone is all about Texiera.
Its funny how so many opinions change so quickly.
Is it because Jarrod’s #s have slipped a little?
I think its b/c people get caught up in the moment and want to see action/movement. Also, I believe that some of you are too loyal to DOB and think we should do whatever he says at all times.
I agree that it would be great to acquire Tex, but it could be another JD Drew type deal….and I think Salty is worth more than that.
By Ben
July 26, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
DOB, Please tell me this rumor I heard from a friend in Dallas, is not true. Salty, E.Andrus, and K.Johnson for Teixeira and Gagne
By CAR3BOOGIE
July 26, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
DOB
Does No News mean bad news…Usually with the braves by the time you hear it, it is done…. Gut feeling this one ain’t happening…..or maybe its just gettin complicated.
Who Knows…. Tex & Hoss, I like also.
By GermanBravesFan
July 26, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
A sports radio host predicted double-digit strike-outs for Lincecum in tonight’s game…
By Baron
July 26, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
Brian, since it looks as though Salty is not going to be our 1B, and considering we have Escobar, Prado, Lillbridge, and that Harrison has no major league record AT ALL, how is it mortgaging our future to move Salty/Andrus/Harrison? Really, it’s two guys at positions that we have well covered and a pitching prospect in exchange for an all star who fills glaring needs and a major league reliever who does the same.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
Ronald Millsaps, did you say that Andruw is “reliable with RISP”? You are kidding right? I think you need to look at Andruw’s numbers with RISP and see if you still have the same opinion.
By N8
July 26, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
Lew
“Yeah, that team makes me tremble in fear. Sure they do. Where’s NOBrainZone now?”
I’m not sure the Mets scare me either. But, do you know what does?
The Atlanta Braves. OUR TEAM SCARES ME. They can’t put a string of victories together to save their you know whats.
If they win tonight, it will have been a nice series. As Joe said on the broadcast last night, it’s hard to sweep a four game series on the road, NO MATTER how bad the team is. And the Giants are Bad (with a capital B).
Win series. That’s all I ask. Especially against the lesser teams. And against the real have-nots, we should be sweeping. But you can’t have it all, right?
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
July 26, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
Zack Greinke is actually being mentioned on ESPN as one of the players that the Royals are shopping. Hey , Salty for Greinke………. In a heartbeat. Thats a slam dunk trade.
By Baron
July 26, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
Athens Brave, most of us were clamoring to keep Salty and HAVE HIM PLAY. Considering McCann, Salty would have to play firstbase. This does not appear to be in cards. So choosing between having an allstar first baseman or Salty on the bench 4 out of 5 games, I’ll take the former. Further, everyone wanted to get a decent starting pitcher rather than add offense, which now looks to be impossible, considering what is on offer.
Ben, that trade doesn’t make much sense, Texas needs pitching prospects so why ask for Andrus and KJ? It probably went Andrus OR KJ, plus Harrison/Davies/Reyes, which if it happened (doubt it) would mean Escobar plays the rest of the season at 2B.
By Cle Daniels
July 26, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
How can people(renegade) say the Braves picked up Franco b/c they don’t trust Salty at 1st. That is crazy b/c like I said he is getting better each time at 1st. Also, they obviously didn’t pick Franco up for his bat. They picked him up for the leadership role he plays, I especially believe he will help Andruw settle down. Back to Salty, whether he plays 1st for us or catches for another ball club, he WILL be a gamer. I just hope we get good return for him.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan
Let me guess, Mike Francesa or Chris Russo from WFAN in New York.
By N8
July 26, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Hammer’d The Braves
“Weren’t many of you here screaming that Saltalamacchia needed to be playing first every day, anyway? Whether he was ready or not? Worst case is he picks up relief help, and Saltalamacchia plays first the rest of the year. That won’t doom the Braves, contrary to the bleats of some bloggers.”
I STILL feel that playing Salty everyday, upgrades the offense, over Julio and Thorman.
I agree with your “worst case scenario”. But the bottom line is this. If Bobby hasn’t played him there everyday YET, he aint gonna if the Tex deal falls through. Nope. We’ll be stuck watching a Julio/Thorman platoon. Or worse yet, a Julio/Julio platoon.
YIKES.
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Why would anyone sit here and complain about trading Andrus??? He is 19 years old, he is not hitting the cover off the ball, and we have absolutely no idea what he will do in the future. We also have Escobar, a natural shortstop, and Lillibridge, and this guy, ummmm….Renteria for another year or two. You have to deal from strength and right now the Braves strengths are middle infield prospects and two good young catchers (not to mention Pena as a solid major league backup). If the Rangers want Salty and Andrus for Tex (and maybe a pitching prospect thrown in for bullpen help), the Braves need to do it now.
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
N8
I agree. Lets beat Lincecum before we start jumping all over the Mets. It amazes me how we all wish for the Mets to lose, but if we don’t win today’s game, we just split a series with the Giants and are STILL 5 games back in the loss column. The Giants. They are awful. I agree it is hard to sweep any team in a four game set during the regular season whether it is at home or on the road, but the Braves need to win tonight. In fact, they need to win every series until the Mets series in two weeks.
By Paladin
July 26, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop I use to enjoy it when the Clumpson folks came to Athens. That solid line of tractors was impressive. As for “Tommy”: He is a cow-chip off the old block.
By rammerjammer
July 26, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
Excerpts from a story in today’s NY Post:
“…an AL executive said not to discount the tight relationship between Braves GM John Schuerholz and the Rangers special assistant to the GM, John Hart, in facilitating a deal.
However, one scout said, “I don’t see how they make that trade without moving Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and to me I would never do that because Saltalamacchia is more valuable than Teixeira. I wouldn’t trade a high-ceiling, switch-hitting catcher who can also play first and who already is succeeding in the majors straight up for a season and half of Teixeira.”
An AL executive, though, countered by saying Schuerholz might be nearing the end of his long tenure and might value a shot now, especially since in Brian McCann, Atlanta already has a young, talented catcher tied up for a long time, making Saltalamacchia expendable.”
By Bob
July 26, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
I really think this trade could be very beneficial to the Braves, depending on the inclusion of Gagne and the other Brave players. If it does not happen, I agree with others that we need to suck it up and put Salty on first and lets see what happens. I cannot believe that he cannot develop into a decent fielding firstbaseman.
Hey GermanBraveFan when are you headed to Franken? FC Bayern looks like they will be damn good this year as they took apart Bremen last weekend.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
BravesDave, I could not agree more!
By Colin
July 26, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
The Angels of Cal of Anaheim of Idaho are also close to landing Tex read for yourself the second article scroll down.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
By TLJ
July 26, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this
I saw an article by John Heyman in sportsillustrated.com a few hours ago in which he stated the angels were close to trading for Tex. The angels were trading Kotchman, Ervin Santana and another unnamed major league player for Tex. If Santana returns to the form he had last year this would probably be a good trade for Texas.
JS should tell give Daniels at Texas a time line to respond to our offer. If no response in that time period, then he should go in another direction. Maybe we should secure a couple of proven bull pen arms and not do anything at this time. Put Salty at first base and let’s see what happens.
What do you think?
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this
The Daily Buzz (Fly on Wall Report No. 003)
(Reporting from the blog server-room deep inside the bowels of AJC headquarters)
The following transpired on the blog, late at night while DOB was fielding questions, interviewing, writing reports, eating fish tacos, juggling chainsaws and missing a concert due to an extra inning game thanks to Wickman…many denizens slept while the Fly sleuth was on the job…
Innocent Blogger: DOB, what do you think about Tex?
Other Blogger: DOB, what are you doing?
A Journalist: Block cheese. Oh, the terror!!!
New Blogger: DOB, what time is it in San Francisco?
DOB: Tex and Hoss on the corners. What? HA! Time?.
rick: DOB, you sorry $%@# so and so. You are a &%#@ such and such so there. #%&$@.
Jimbo: DOB stupid lyrics, long posts, stupid journalists…get them off of this blog…
TampaBrave: So, here’s some baseball info for you neophytes here.
rick: DOB steals, cheats, locker room smut, so on and…(BLAM..POOF SIZZLE)…
Some Blogger: What happened to troll rick? He vanished!
Other Blogger: Had it comin…idiot.
Jimbo: DOB lose those stupid lyrics, don’t know nuthin, stupid journa… (BLAM…POP…SSSTT)…
Some Blogger: Wow! Another! Vaporized…gone. Cool.
DOB: Jimbo/Tampa eh? Weak. Ok, where was I? Oh, all in a day’s work…on to music and baseball…
TampaBrave: Uh, that, er, wasn’t, um…I’m sorry. Jimbo’s my, uh…evil twin. Love you DOB. Kiss kissy…smooch…
Innocent Blogger: Hey, what just happened? This is fun.
By Renegator
July 26, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
Cle Daniels:
Have you watched any games this week? Franco has played first base in every game since we signed him. Come on, guy.
By JasonInMaine
July 26, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
As I asked earlier, I wonder what JS’ plan B is…we know he has one. It obviously doesn’t involve a player of Tex’s caliber, but he has a plan B!
Regards,
Jason
By ArkyTech
July 26, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
DOB, Please tell me this rumor I heard from a friend in Dallas, is not true. Salty, E.Andrus, and K.Johnson for Teixeira and Gagne
Would do that in a heartbeat - but Texas probably won’t because they want pitching. Escobar plays every day (maybe Willie goes back to the 8 hole), and we call up Prado and Pena. The starting pitching is coming along by itself, and adding Gagne makes it a 6 inning game like back in April. THAT’S a playoff team - and WS contender!
By Renegator
July 26, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this
Anyone see that the lowly Nats came back to beat Philly? Woohoo!
By Joe Fan
July 26, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this
Thinking back to the years that Smoltz and Gagne dueled for the lead in saves it would be cool to have them on the same team.
Just think if they get Gagne and resign Wickman and after Gonzelez comes back they could have quite a bullpen with
Wickman Soriano Gagne and Gonzelez
By P-Town Brave
July 26, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this
TLJ
You know as well as I do that as long as there’s a choice between Salty and Julio, Bobby will always choose Julio!
We need Tex and we need him BAD!
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 26, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if Andrus would be included in any Texas deal (or any other deal) or not, and he’s certainly not untouchable. But anybody who’s ready to just throw him in on a deal without a thought hasn’t seen him play. He’s an unbelievably good defensive shortstop, Ozzie good potentially. Whether he can hit .260 in the majors is the only question. His glove is ready or close to ready right now. You don’t just chuck a prospect like that without giving it some thought first.
By Yars
July 26, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
I somehow hard a hard time seeing Schuerholz even mentioning Kelly Johnson’s name during trade talks, unless he’s saying to everyone that he’s a future all star. Why would he want to trade KJ? Some of you talk as if Escobar is the second coming of Derek Jeter. I’d take KJ over Escobar. He will have more value in the long run. This 2B platoon stinks in my opinion. Both KJ & Escobar should be playing everyday. There is just no way KJ, Escobar, & Renteria will all be with the Braves in ‘08.
By Paladin
July 26, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this
Colin This is, at least, 10 “see for yourself” “articles” that have been posted on here in the last 24 hours.
The Angels of Cal of Anaheim of Idaho are also close to landing Tex read for yourself the second article scroll down.
Personally, I’ll believe the trade when it is published in the AJC, or when Jason in Maine says so. Jason, IMO, is the only one who consistently posts “good” info on here.
By Rodger
July 26, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
I like our chances with JS (Salty-just wanted to confuse things with yet another JS) at first, but I don’t know if it’s totally fair to him. He’s too good a catcher, with too good a gun, not to be able to catch.
I agree if we can resign Tex, then it won’t be a bad trade, but one never knows with Bor-a$$.
Shaun, the point of consistency is not a comparison with how it compares to other teams, but with the average. With almost half the games (27 2 or less, 21 8 or more) 3 runs from average, that is very inconsistent.
By Arkansas Braves fan
July 26, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
Normally a trade this big won’t happen within the same division. I know that it has happen before, but it seldom does. If I’m the Rangers, they have to know the Angels have the money to sign Tex long term. I would not won’t to see a former cornerstone of my franchise wear me out the next 7 years.
By TennesseePaul
July 26, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
Mo in the boonies: Check your references. I don’t believe that was me saying that.
By Paladin
July 26, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
I hear a lot about “arms” in the BP. I don’t think “arms” are nearly the problem that lack-of-leadership is. JS needs to find out who made the BP run, in the days that it was “running”—was it Leo?—and get whoever it was back, now.
If whoever is in “charge” out there now were to try and organize a 2-car funeral procession, he would have them front bumper-to-bumper.
By Yars
July 26, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
Angels seem like the type of team that would give up too much to land Tex. They are the kind of team that can get really hot and dominate the AL post season. If they get Tex, they will go to the ALCS. The Braves on the other hand, still need a decent starting pitcher & a upgrade on the bench even if they do land Tex. The Mets have Pedro coming back soon. He could surprise everyone & kick *ss.
By P-Town Brave
July 26, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Looks like the Angels are going to pull the wool out from under us and snag Tex, and it makes me sick to my stomach!
I hope JS realizes that by not doing this and keeping his savior Julio Franco, they’ll be watching the playoffs from home for the 2nd straight season
You should’ve pulled the trigger and finished the deal John!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this
Jason, I would almost have to say that JS would look at guys like Milar, Wiggington, Carlos Pena, Klesko, Xavier Nady, or even a dark horse like Chris Duncan. The Cards were open to trading him in the offseason. The only alternative would be to stick Salty out there everyday and hope for the best.
A real dark horse but a very intriguing possibility is Johnny Damon. He was willing to play 1B for the Yankees before the season and his defense couldn’t be that bad. Could it? He doesn’t have power but he sure can hit and get on base and that is better than nothing. However, I don’t see this deal happening unless the Yanks agree to pay about half of Damon’s salary which is highly unlikely.
By Cle Daniels
July 26, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
Renegator, I agree but the only reason he played so much at 1st was to get some at bats. I’m sure Cox feels if Franco gets more than the 50 he had in NY he can do close to what he did before. I don’t think I agree w/ that but we’ll see. If I had to guess I think Cox felt Salty was going(he thought for SP) so he needed a few AB’s to see if Franco could get back to his old form. If it doesn’t work, what do we lose? A few grand!! If he starts hitting b/c he’s more comfortable w/ the Braves and Cox then we get a quick(cheap) fix to get through the year. I really think everyone felt we would lose Salty, but for a SP not another 1B. I’m just going to stay positive and hope something can get done. We’ll see!!
By Tad
July 26, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
DOB If I recall correctly, you referenced earlier this week that AT&T Park in SF was your favorite of the 30 current ballparks in MLB. I went to a game there against the Phillies in May and was really impressed, along with the city of San Francisco, on my first ever visit. I have to say I like Fenway better (went 3x last year) for the historic aspect of the park. Is Shea at the bottom of the barrel? I haven’t been to NY, but a friend went this year and said it was lousy, plus planes go over every 10 minutes!
I am curious if your rankings of the 30 ballparks is available somewhere. Do you know if it is archived?
Thanks, Tad
PS- Keep up the good work on the road. Bring us a series win tonight and some good fortune in Arizona!
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
CHIPPER OUT OF LINEUP with what he said is a minor groin strain. “Not serious,” he said, while taking a moment to look up from a deck of cards. “I just want to make sure it doesn’t get any worse.”
He think he’ll play tomorrow in Arizona.
Edgar’s also out of the lineup, just to get a rest. Bobby said he planned all along to rest him today because he’s played so much lately.
And, as planned, Thorman’s at first.
Woodward’s at third, Thor’s at first.
Good luck, Buddy.
By John B.
July 26, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
Ronald Millsaps: Umm…Salty’s numbers will surpass Tex’s? So you think Jarrod is gonna AVERAGE, I repeat, AVERAGE, .290-.300, 35-40 HRs, 110 RBIS a year? Coupled with Gold glove caliber defense? The kid is good, and I love him, but don’t make yourself sounds like a fool.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
July 26, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this
Opportunity awaits the Braves tonight to gain the game back they lost last night. Both the Mets and the Phillies lost today.
I hope Bobby positions the defense well tonight as Buddy is prone to giving up well hit balls in the first and second innings.
That said, the trade rumors continue to abound and remain the focus of the blog’s attention.
The dog and pony show hit Richmond today with much ado about nothing. Sigh, I hope all the folks that breezed in left some money because Richmond cannot afford to pay their entire police department overtime for these events. To quote Thomas Jefferson, “Justice is for the wealthy”.
By bwash21
July 26, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
My thoughts about this trade:
We have a HUGE advantage over the Angels in getting Tex since they are in the same division. Texas is just using them as competition but they will not trade w/ each other. That leaves us and the Dodgers.
JS will not trade 3 of our top prospects for one stud and a reliever. No way, no how. He will trade one of them and 2 2nd tier guys but I can’t see Andrus and Harrison going w/ Salty.
I can’t see how we would ever re-sign Tex with Boras as his agent but he would look great in a Braves uni for a year and a half.
Bottom line though, I will be shocked if we actually pull this trade off. We haven’t had an impact deadline trade since McGriff and that was Ted Turners team.
And I think Tex wears Franco’s uni #23. Hmm, just saying.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this
Yars, with all due respect I have to disagree. That is rare for me because I usually agree with you. Anyway, I don’t think the Angles are necessarily the type of team that would make such a deal. Bill Stoneman is notorious for being shy about pulling the trigger on big trades or free agent signings. He could have had Carl Crawford last year and wouldn’t do it. He also hedged this winter when the Braves were ready to send LaRoche to them. The Angels don’t like giving up pitching prospects. That is why they never make trades. I just don’t see why they would all of a sudden have a change of heart. If the Angels make that trade with the Rays last year, they are in the playoffs. I would really have to see it to believe it. I really would. I just don’t see them giving up both Kotchman and Santana. I could be wrong.
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
July 26, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
Word is the Angels are offering Casey Kotchman , Ervin Santana and another big leaguer. Also, it’s said the Angels are willing to add even more…..stay tuned.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this
Baron… I specifically did not cherry-pick. I posted instances where the Braves did and did not follow-up their strong offensive performances, thankyouverymuch.
The “did nots” outnumber the “dids” though. Hard to ignore that.
Shaun, I’m not just focusing on a 16-game stretch, dude. But I will point out what our current offensive assemblage has done against playoff-caliber pitching.
It’s hard to disseminate how we’d fare against NL squads because we didn’t face the big arms of San Diego, last visit, only faced Chris Young (and lost) when they were in Atlanta, saw a blistery-fingered Brad Penny in L.A..
That being said, when we faced good pitching in the Boston and Detroit series, we were inept. That’s not focusing on a “stretch” of games, Shaun. That’s me pointing out our offensive performance agaisnt likely postseason starting pitchers.
Throw in the performances against the Cole Hamels, Oliver Perez’s, the Tom Glavines, then figure what our current lineup would do against a healthy Brad Penny, Jake Peavy, and you’d have to wanna tinker with our lineup to make it better. You wouldn’t want to stand pat with this.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
Great; Chipper being, I’ll understand. But Edgar, too?
Is Bobby just conceding tonight’s game via the lineup swap?
For the love of God, play Yunel at 3B, give Edgar TOMORROW off in Arizona at the very least!!!
I think the Mets’ and Phillies’ outcome sorta gives Cox his “out” for this one. Which sucks.
I guess it’d be too much of us to ask Andruw to carry the team for one freaking night, eh?
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
Why is Chris “Can you believe how I’m stealing money from the Braves” Woodward playing 3B instead of Harris. Why not put Harris @ 3B and Diaz in LF. Or put Harris @ 3B, Thorman in LF, and Salty @ 1B. Sometimes Cox frustrates the crap out of me.
By Coach (Hank Aaron Is The Real HR Champion)
July 26, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
The Marlins are considering trade offers for Dontrelle Willis. This could get wild and crazy before the dust settles.
By Interested Observer
July 26, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
DOB: Thanks for the line-up update. I was going to rush home to catch the game on TV, but now I won’t bother.
Why can’t Bobby wait a day to rest Edgar instead of having him and Chipper out the same game. You can play Escobar at 3rd tonight and SS tomorrow assuming Chipper is back.
By Baron
July 26, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this
Jason, I’d say plan B is probably to play Salty at 1B! I’ve read folk here say that if they aren’t playing Salty at 1B now they won’t play him there after the break. I don’t agree. They’ve probably shied away from playing Salty at 1B (or at all really) recently because he is their number 1 trading chip, and he hasn’t exactly been tearing it up of late. So they give Julio a look to hopefully staunch the bloodloss at 1B and perhaps be a late inning defensive sub (he is still a really good fielder) and pinch hitter down the stretch.
If they don’t make the Tex trade, I think they deal Thorman for anything, bring up Pena to back-up at catcher, and install Salty at first 4 out of 5 games.
After the season, re-evaluate Salty’s status. The more I think about it, it seems like a shame to convert him to a 1B. The guy seems like a top quality catcher, and man what a gun! He’s an MVP as a big bat catcher, and if he doesn’t develope into said big bat, well then he’s an allstar as a very good hitting catcher.
That said, I’d rather have him at first for us if no one else worthy becomes available. I still like the apparently crazy idea of a 1B/C platoon of he and McCann. Both bats in the lineup every day… oh yea-ee-yeah!
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this
Hammer’d…I don’t think you are getting rid of Andrus without a thought. I think you are getting rid of him to acquire a switch-hitting, power-hitting, Gold-Glove first basemen and, possibly, bullpen help. Can’t get all that by giving up Woodward and Orr. So you give a lot to get a lot in return.
By StingerSplash
July 26, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
DOB,
If in your haste to get out of town you do a new blog, how about some exit music, from, say, maybe the best band ever out of the Bay Area. How bout some Metallica to set the mood for the rest of the road trip? And Carlos Delgado, whose batting average languished around (.220) for most of the year, is up to .250. If he gets hot, the Mets could be real trouble after all, especially since Reyes and Wright aren’t cooling off much.
By OilBoiler
July 26, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
I live in California and watch the Braves everytime they come to the Bay Area. Seeing Andruw Jones tring to pull every pitch on TV doesn’t do any justice to watching it in person. I sat behind home plate and seems that even the little kids were yelling “pitch him outside” over and over. How pothedic it is knowing he knows that the pitch is going outside ( along with everyone else in the park) and he still swings. One at bat I honestly think he is confused of the actual strike zone. There were 6 pitches thrown to him. 3 striaght balls and then of coarse 3 straight stikes and he never swung the bat. My 8 year old asked what was he waiting for? I shook my head and said in confusion “I don’t know”. Trade him and Salty to Texas for Tex/Reliever. Couldn’t do any worse. Bobby Cox said Andruw may save at least 1 run a game with his defense. Pick up Tex and put him in Andruw’s batting spot and you have an even swap. God knows Andruw has be awful there.
By Baron
July 26, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
Why Woodward, why! God I’m sick of that SOB. Why not Escobar? Is KJ out of the lineup too?
I rarely question BC, but man this is testing my goodwill.
Can we please get rid off Woodward? After that error tuesday night I thought for sure we was a goner. And then he gets a PH appearance last night! I’d so much rather have Orr, at least he’s come through for us in the past and a real Brave.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
I don’t think some people on here realize to get something you have to give something. Teams aren’t just going to give JS what he wants because he wants it. Do people really think we can get top flight talent by offering the likes of Thorman, Woodward, Orr, and a bunch of low ceiling prospects that nobody has ever heard of?
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
Is Brayan Pena in tonights lineup for Richmond? When does Harrison and Davies pitch again? Just some things to watch for in case JS pulls the trigger.
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
Monsieur Bobby Cox
Oh, le journaliste estimé, j’apprécie aussi du bon vin et cheese aussi bien que le bon art et les films du monde, mais quelques-un de le Brave des fans qui apprécient votre écriture savent vraiment une partie d’entre vous.
Vous êtes très divertissants à beaucoup. J’ai appris que, pour divertir nous devons d’abord nous divertir. Merci de faire ce forum plus divertissant. Maintenant, de ce pichet M. Cheeseburger…
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
I can’t wait to see Woodward and Thor against Lincecum’s 96 mph heat tonight. I cannot believe that Cox is going into a game where he knows he can pick up ground on both the Mets and Phils with 4 out of 9 spots in the lineup hitting at .200….Woodward, Thor, Andruw, and the pitcher’s spot.
Cox just cannot bring himself to start Salty at first base. We need Thorman in there swinging for the fences. Nice move, Bobby.
By Baron
July 26, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
DOB, where you been all day? I hope you were news gathering for the story you are about to publish about how the Braves just traded for Mark Texiera.
By wiki
July 26, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
DOB Heading to Boston this weekend to check out The Police at Fenway. The combination of wanting to see one of my favorite bands from the high school days that I thought I’d never see and the venue they are playing was too much of a draw for me to resist. My “seats” are in right field. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a concert there or know someone that has, but do you know if they are actual seats per se or is it more like ampitheater lawn seating? Anyone that knows, please help.
By Mark
July 26, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this
By Rick
July 26, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
You people are dreaming. The Braves’ run is over! The Braves have played 4 losing, crumby teams since the break, while the Mets have played San Diego and L.A., and we not only didn’t lose ground…we gained 2.5 games!! The Mets are gaining ground and putting you away….AGAIN!
Yeah—putting the Braves away again—like the Braves did to you the 14 years before that. Thirteen straight more…then come back and post on our blog
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
Robert (Justice Is The Best) 5:31: sigh. Agreed. Hey, here’s a novel idea: let’s throw our best team on the field once…just once and see what happens. Very odd lineup. Is it the crusty old playbook? Barry should get about 6 ab’s tonight. But not to be a sourpuss…can we rest Cox?
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
No Renteria, No Chipper. Good Luck.
By rammerjammer
July 26, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Hey, maybe Bobby’s “showcasing” Woodward too!
Yeah, right.
By Todd A
July 26, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
*”Something tells me Schuerholz will fail to make a trade and do his best “Baghdad Bob” impression to the AJC sportswriters.
“I believe the Braves are just fine as is. Julio Franco is a capable first baseman. The starters of pitching much better. Lance Cormier will be back soon and throw a perfect game.”*
LOL…thanks for the laugh Jared.That was pretty good.
By tvsportscaster
July 26, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
Baron in regards to your 5:41 post. Escobar is in the lineup. DOB said Renteria was given the night off, so Escobar is playing Short, hence Wooodward playing third.
By ObiWanKobe
July 26, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
no need to rush home to catch this game…
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
July 26, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this
Showcasing Woodward for who? Some independent rookie league.
By N.Y
July 26, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this
It amazing how the Braves fans and media people think the Mets stink and how bad they are. Despite being 57-44 so far and in first-place.I know that’s not setting the world on fire,but the Mets are doing just enough to stay on top. If the Mets stink so much,then why do they have the best record in the N.L? The Mets have flaws just like everyone else. No team is perfect- that includes the teams in the American League. Can the Braves fans and media people just recognize the Mets have some talent.
By Chop Chop
July 26, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this
According to ESPN, Chase Utley has a broken hand. Well, I guess that helps the Braves’ cause.
By Todd A
July 26, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this
“Throw in the performances against the Cole Hamels, Oliver Perez’s, the Tom Glavines, then figure what our current lineup would do against a healthy Brad Penny, Jake Peavy, and you’d have to wanna tinker with our lineup to make it better. You wouldn’t want to stand pat with this.”
Don’t forget our ineptitude against an ailing Ben Sheets earlier this year…YEP…another loss.We scored 3 quick runs and quit scoring.Sheets can roll a ball out on the field and this collection of pantie waste we have for a lineup will roll up into the fetal position.
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this
Baron, where’ve I been all day? Check the blog. I’ve been here, plus eating lunch, plus spending the past couple hours coming to the stadium, then working the clubhouse, talking to Cox and Chipper, and doing a note on Chipper for online, which will be posted any moment if it’s not up already.
Oh, and doing a scouting box for the upcoming series in Houston.
But thanks for asking. No Teixeira trade story today.
By TommyP
July 26, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this
Braves fans, if you haven’t seen Lincecum pitch, you’re in for a treat.
He’s perhaps the best young pitcher in the game, along with Gallardo.
By Todd A
July 26, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this
Savannah,I don’t know what you said,but I bet it was hilarious.
By Lew
July 26, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this
Wayne-I’m doing just fine. How about yourself out there in the land of the LDS? Nathan-Actually, Dude, I pretty much agree with you. I’m much more concerned about the Braves putting on a surge than I am with the Mets. Like I’ve been saying all along (though NoBrainZone thinks I’m insane), the Mets are not nearly as strong a team as April and the first part of May indicated. Guess I was right. No, I know damn well I was right. Sure would be nice if the Braves could pull off a 7 or 8 game win streak. I’d feel much better. Tampa Brave =Yes, I’d also feel much better if our hitting were more consistent. Never doubt that for a minute-I agree that they haven’t capitalized like they should. It certainly cost them the game last night. As someone pointed out on The TBS broadcast-Andruw has decent power #’s and RBI. But with all the runners on ahead of him, think how many RBI he would have if he was actually doing well. The only point I’ve tried to make to you is that you should expect the pen to hold those leads, no matter how small they are. A lead is a lead. More runs would be wonderful, but on the nights when the hitters don’t come through, but still hand the Pen a lead, the pen must do their job. Same as a defense in football must keep their opponent from driving for a winning field goal in the last minute-even if their wideout dropped a sure TD pass.
By Ron
July 26, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this
I dont know why everybody wants to add Elvis in the deal? I would like it if JS would put Lillibridge in the deal instead and add more prospects if had to!!! The MAIN reason that we should NOT traded Elvis is just in case Escobar does not do as good as WE think he will do, Elvis will be Ready by then and be our longterm SS!!! Lillibridge is 23 or 24 and will be ready for the Majors NEXT season!!! I would Rather have a 20 or 21 year old Elvis playing SS than a 25-27 year old Lillibridge just in case Escobar flops in the Majors!!!
By Lew
July 26, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this
bwash-Franco wears number 14.
By Colin
July 26, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
Im gettin impatient are we going to pull the trigger for Tex or not DOB, we cant be waiting the Angels have alot to offer as well.
By Todd A
July 26, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
“Gotta say, the more I see of the Mets, the more I think the Braves and/or the Phillies will overtake them. Just not a big difference between the three flawed teams.”
DOB nice optimism,Dave.Wish I had it.But,I personally don’t see this team making up 4 games when we’ve been playing .500 baseball since the first week of the season.That is,not unless the Braves acquire another major bat for the lineup and a couple quality arms for the pen.I can’t see the Mets standing pat if the Braves are wheeling and dealing.Surely Manaya will counter-act any moves Schuerholz makes.Andruw would have to go on a run like May-June 2005 for this team to take off,and he’s given no indications from anything he’s done this year that that is a possibility.
By Ron Roberts
July 26, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this
Patience with the trade(s), folks. Those that have what others want are taking their sweet time to see that they can get the maximum for their trade bait. I’m betting Texas is playing “here’s what they’re offering, can you beat it” with about four teams, us being one of ‘em. Keep in mind the Yanks are, what, 6.5 GB of the Red Sawx now, too, and you know those two like to out-deal each other when they’re in a race.
By Lew
July 26, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
NY-Re: your 6:11 post. NO.
By N8
July 26, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
“According to ESPN, Chase Utley has a broken hand. Well, I guess that helps the Braves’ cause.”
But not my fantasy team. Damn!
By Gil In Mechanicsville
July 26, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this
Wayne Davies pitched 5 strong innings Monday.
By rick
July 26, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this
hey DOB, way to delete all my posts. i guess your pea-sized ball sac got the best of you. all i was saying is you read espn.com and regirgitate the trade rumors to toy with atlanta fans when you know darn good and well you have no contacts within the organization that are telling you the braves are pursuing tex, because they’re not. scheurholz is forced to be a penny-penching wuss and would never go for a trade that brough tex’s contract here, yet, you go a step further to say they woudl acquire gagne’s contract as well. delete this too, you prick.
By Carolina Lady
July 26, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this
SavannahGuy, english, please! None of us need to show off our language skills here; wastes space.
(IIHIHOIIJY?) :-)
By Efrim
July 26, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this
What a rough blow for the Phillies. Imagine if Chipper went down for 4-6 weeks. That would be it for us. I feel bad for them.
By Todd A
July 26, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this
Speaking of the Red Sox/Yanks,anyone besides me think the Yankees win that division?It is the Red Sox we’re talking about here.I thought the Yankees were still going to win the East even when they were 13 games back.I wish the Sox would hold on so our division title streak wouldn’t be in jeopardy,but I know they will choke over the next 2 months.
By Carolina Lady
July 26, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this
I would guess that Rick has never read “How To Win Friends and Influence People.”
By Colin
July 26, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
All Lincecum throws is gas
By David O'Brien
July 26, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG IS UP. How’s that for a curveball for you folks?
By Todd A
July 26, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this
“Davies pitched 5 strong innings Monday.”
Maybe the Braves can pull a Don Zimmer type deal and trade Davies while he’s hot.
By Colin
July 26, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
* We lost Chip and Edgar not in the lineup and WoodCOCk and Thorrible*
By Wayne in Utah
July 26, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this
Gil I saw that line on Davies, and Cormier has strung together some nice outings together.
I wonder how long it will be before we can take advantage of a rested arm up here. Problem with that scenario is that BC doesn’t like throwing youngsters into the fire. Not that I blame him too much, but sometimes a guys gotta sink or swim.
Lew All is well out in the intermountain west. Enjoying the TBS broadcasts this week!
By BravesDave
July 26, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this
Man, Francoeur just got waxed by Lincecum. Francouer is hopeless against a good fastball these days.
The Braves are not going to score against Lincecum in this game. They are going to end this series with 1 run against the Giants last two starters.
By Savannah Guy
July 26, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady: I almost forgot…I was only communicating in the same language as to connect with an esteemed frenchman that had earlier opined in same language. But for you dear…anything. But be honest now, didn’t you even get a little tiny goose bump?
By TLj
July 26, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this
It looks like Francoeur just waxed one of Lincecum’s fast balls.
By Tim
July 30, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Have to pull the trigger even though I think Salty will be a star for years to come. This would allow Andruw to walk and have something behind him to spend the money wisely on. I only disagree with the assertion that Tex and Chipper will be the top 1-2 combo in the the NL. That has to go to Utley and Howard when Utley is back from the broken hand.