AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > July > 18 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USScout on Davies: “I’d take him”
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
So I’m talking today with a scout of an AL team, a guy with a strong pitching background, and I ask him about Kyle Davies, then prepare for the worst.
But I didn’t get the worst. For you holding out hope and/or belief that the former boy wonder from Stockbridge will get it together and have a strong career, you’re not alone.
“Kyle Davies has a good arm,” was the first thing from the scout, when I asked him what he thought after watching Kyle pitch a couple nights ago.
Not, “Kyle Davies is a mess,” or “Kyle Davies’ confidence is shot,” but “Kyle Davies has a good arm.”
“He’s not throwing as hard as he did before he hurt his groin,” the scout said. “But he’s got a good arm.”
“So there are teams that believe Davies will be a good major league pitcher?” I asked him.
And he replied without hesitation, “I’d take him.”
So there. That’s the other side of the dilemma of Davies, if there is a dilemma. I say “if” because the Braves have to decide whether to keep him up in the majors, send him down to the minors - he does have options - or perhaps listen to trade offers.
Since returning from the DL in September after groin surgery, Davies has gone 5-12 with a 7.17 ERA in 23 starts, and posted a .306 opponents’ average with 60 walks and only 74 strikeouts in 106-2/3 innings in that span. That’s fewer than five innings per start, folks.
He’s won just one game in 10 home starts (1-5) in that span.
Of course the Braves might not see it as much of a dilemma with Davies, at least not yet. Since he still has minor-league options, they might view it as, “Hey, we’ll send the guy down and let him work on things in the minors, if we have to.” I don’t know exactly what they’re thinking right now, to be honest.
I will say this: He’s in the bullpen today, available if Braves need a long man. To open a roster spot for John Smoltz coming off the DL today, they sent down Joey Devine, who’s building up quite a bank of frequent-flier miles this season, if not innings.
When I asked Bobby Cox about it, about keeping Jo-Jo Reyes and Davies and sending down Devine, he first was as vague as you could possibly imagine. “Yeah, he [Reyes] is staying around for a while.”
Only after asked again 15 minutes later in a slightly different manner did he allow that the Braves needed to have a long reliever available, what with Smoltz coming off the DL and there always being some uncertainty in such a situation, and with Oscar Villarreal’s arm not made entirely of rubber and therefore not available for bullpen use every single day.
But for Sunday’s ESPN game, Davies is tentatively scheduled to start. Reyes isn’t on the rotation plans, as of today. Again, this could all change. If Davies were to be used in long relief today, maybe Reyes gets the start Sunday.
We’ll just have to wait and see how it plays out.
Given the dearth of pitching on the trade market, the Braves have got to be at least a bit encouraged by Lance Cormier’s much improved performance in his most recent rehab start. Who knows, maybe the guy will finally be ready to pitch like he did in the spring - but personally, I ain’t holding my breath for that one, not after seeing what he did in his couple of starts between DL stints.
By the way, don’t want to say I told you so on Bronson Arroyo a few weeks back, but he’s a good pitcher, still, regardless of his season numbers. He showed that last night.
He’d be a great fit in this ballpark and with this team, though I don’t know how available he is and what the Reds would want for him. Pittsburgh’s Ian Snell would also be a nice fit, and cheap for a few years, but Pirates GM Dave Littlefield is notorious for demanding too much for his young talent, and I don’t know that the Braves would be willing to give up Salty for Snell.
Salty’s in there again: Jarrod Saltalamacchia is making his second consecutive start at 1B against a right-hander today, which tells me the Braves are trying to decide whether they have to make a move at any cost for first-base help before the trade deadline.
If they don’t think Salty can give them production there for the stretch drive, they have to make a move. That point, seemingly, is not open for debate.
Here’s what I mean: Braves first baseman are hitting .203 with just 34 RBIs entering today’s game, worst in the majors in both. Repeat, .203 with 34 RBIs.
The Mariners (.206) are the only other major league team with first basement hitting below .230, and even they have 52 RBIs from first basemen.
The Braves also rank dead last in the majors, by even wider margins, in on-base percentage (.260) and slugging percentage (.363) from 1Bs. Average, OBP and slugging. The terrible trifecta.
Why, Mets pitchers (.230) are only 30 points below Braves first basemen in on-base percentage. Pitchers!
The bulk of the damage has been done by Thorman, batting .193 with six homers and a .230 on-base percentage in 60 games since Aug. 30.
He’s hit .071 (3-for-42) with one extra-base hit (double) and as many errors (three) as RBIs in his past 16 games. A scout told me he’s like a young Ryan Klesko, but without the “adjustment valve.” Said Thorman has too many holes in his swing and doesn’t make adjustments, keeps getting out on the same pitches by the same pitchers.
Salty hasn’t exactly torn it up at 1B, either, though in obviously limited opportunities. He was 7-for-38 (.184) with two homers and a .238 OBP at the position, compared to 25-for-67 (.373) with a .417 OBP at catcher.
Since his two-homer game June 26, Salty has gone 10-for-44 (.227) with two doubles, no homers and one RBI in his past 13 games.
Harris has cooled: Speaking of slumps, Willie Harris is in one. He’s 10-for-50 with no extra-base hits, seven runs and no RBIs in his past 20 games.
Harris is leading off again today, and you gotta like Kelly Johnson’s attitude about that. Kelly, who of course was the full-time leadoff guy for most of the first half, said he hopes Willie will get hot again in the leadoff spot because he runs and disrupts pitchers.
Not one word or roll of the eyes or anything else to tell me that Kelly has any problem hitting down in the order. He really does want Harris to get back to where he was, blistering hot until a few weeks ago.
Johnson is doing quite well hitting down in the order and platooning with Yunel Escobar.
Since June 29, K.J. was 15-for-34 (.441) with four extra-base hits, seven RBIs, seven walks and a .537 OBP in his past 14 games before today.
”I HAVE THE TOUCH” by Peter Gabriel
The time I like is the rush hour, cause I like the rush
The pushing of the people — I like it all so much
Such a mass of motion — do not know where it goes
I move with the movement and … I have the touch
I’m waiting for ignition, I’m looking for a spark
Any chance collision and I light up in the dark
There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
Oh, do I dare … I have the touch
Wanting contact
I’m wanting contact
I’m wanting contact with you
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Give me the thing I understand
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Any social occasion, it’s hello, how do you do
All those introductions, I never miss my cue
So before a question, so before a doubt
My hand moves out and … I have the touch
Wanting contact
I’m wanting contact
I’m wanting contact with you
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Give me the thing I understand
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Pull my chin, stroke my hair, scratch my nose, hug my knees
Try drink, food, cigarette, tension will not ease
I tap my fingers, fold my arms, breathe in deep, cross my legs
Shrug my shoulders, stretch my back — but nothing seems to please
I need contact
I need contact
Nothing seems to please
I need contact
Services »
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
So then is the problem coaching? McDowell’s done GREAT with Buddy Carlyle.
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Let’s wish Davies the best then.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this
I’m also of the opinion that if the Braves have to give up Saltalmacchia to get Ian Snell, it’s a deal worth making. We have a long-term solution behind the plate, and can make another solution happen at 1B MUCH easier than we can find or acquire a top-tier rotation arm these days.
Whew, not good when you’re compared to Ryan Klesko but without the adjustment valve. We Braves didn’t know Ryan had one, as it is…
By Lee
July 18, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
DOB
Any chance J.S. makes a call to the AL team the scout was with and listens to offers for Davies.
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
New blog, fresh start for us denizens and the Braves in the win column hopefully. Davies right now is the classic million dollar arm with the 10 cent head. Where’s Smoltzie’s shrink from the early ‘90’s when you need him?
By Shaun
July 18, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
I think Davies is the type of guy you hesitate to trade unless you get a big-impact guy (a great leadoff or middle-of-the-order hitter or a top-of-the-rotation starter) as part of a package that includes Davies, and the other team wants Davies only. He’s not the type of guy you trade just to get something at this point; the type of guy you give up on this early.
By Epinephrine
July 18, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, that’s not really a fair assessment of Salty’s production. The guy has been hitting the ball hard for a while now-just right at people. Two nights ago he was robbed of a hit twice, and last night he hit a laser up the middle that was right at the ss. So, I can’t say I agree that there has been any discernible difference between Salty at 1st and at catcher.
By Andy
July 18, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves, as usual, were smart in not sending down Davies until Smoltz can show he is healthy. I would not trade him, but I would certainly ship him to Richmond until at least September call-ups. Reyes looked pretty darn good, but it was against the Reds.
By Ryan
July 18, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
From all the talk (not just this blog, but in general) about Reyes, Davies, and Cormier, it sounds more and more like the braves are gonna stay with what they have right now. If that is the case, this team will not go to the WS, and maybe not to the playoffs. There needs to be an answer to the 1st base problem…not named julio franco, and there must be another starter picked up. It will be a shame if JS doesn’t pull something off.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
We’re all guilty sometimes of forgetting Davies is still awful young.
Not apologizing for him, because he’s been pretty awful a lot of nights. But he’s still way too young to write off. Waaaay too young.
By Dave knockahomer
July 18, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
There are two main concerns from my view: we need another starter; but I am very concerned about Salty’s lack of hits esp. from the left side. Evidently the major league pitchers have adjusted to him….so now he needs to readjust. Right now, it is not good. But shall see how things go. KJ’s stats in several respects are better than Yunel’s and in my view, KJ has more power. Would truly prefer the platooning stop with KJ being the regular second baseman, but as long as Yunel is on the team, Cox will platoon.
and right now, we can seem to hit…once again. OR we can get guys on but can’t get ‘em in…..
so it goes
GO BRAVES!
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
It is funny how no one in the media ever comments on the fact that the Braves could be ahead of the Mets if Cox would have bunted in a few runners from third with one out or less in a few games. It would have changed the outcome from a loss to a win. And we would be ahead of the Mets….Then look at the Mets games and you will see games they have won just by hitting in the runner on 3rd with one out or less and sometimes they have even done it with 2 outs, to win.
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the Blog DOB. Smoltz is dealing today.
GO BRAVES
By Shaun
July 18, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Epinephrine,
I think the bigger issue, as DOB points out, is that he doesn’t have enough plate appearances at first to take his numbers their too serious.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this
Why is it when Saltalamacchia hits it “right at somebody” for an out, he gets a pass, but if it’s Andruw Jones, Chipper Jones, et al, folks just rip away at ‘em?
Add a hit or two to the numbers, and he’s still struggling of late. It happens almost every time the Braves call up a kid who comes up hitting like a phenom. The league gauges ‘em after awhile and figures ‘em out. Happened to Francoeur, happened to McCann, happening to Saltalamacchia.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
Good to see the offense doing nothing. Someone pop one.
Dmitri Young folks.
By StingerSplash
July 18, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
I understand Peter Gabriel puts on - or at least used to in his younger days - a helluva show. Wonder what happened to the band he used to be in? Did those guys amount to anything? BTW, listening to the game and Smoltz at least sounds like he’s back.
By Johannes
July 18, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the Info DOB! I am wondering why we keep hearing about trading Escobar and Salty, but never Kelly Johnson or any other “good” prospect (Jo-Jo), or even Cormier (not sure what his value is while on the DL). And also, you keep saying there are hardly any starters out there, and everyone is looking for one or two. But WHO would be a feasable realistic target for the Braves at this time?
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
DOB’
I heard the Braves had inquired abut Dmitri Young. Thoughts? We could keep Salty as the backup to 1st and Catcher. He shouldn’t cost too much, althought in the reports, Jim Bowden asked for Brandon Jones or Matt Harrison.
BASES JUICED TWO OUTS FOR SALTY!!!!!
By JasonInMaine
July 18, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
Trade Salty right now!! (:
By Shaun
July 18, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this
Lew (and Salty),
In case you missed it from the last blog: I’m sorry but when something greatly contradicts reason, in my opinion, I’m going to keep at it.
Also, last year I didn’t say Ryan Howard didn’t have a great year or wasn’t having a great year. My view was that it wasn’t historic; wasn’t one of the top seasons in history in terms of overall production.
I love how some folks like to try to put words(“he said Ryan Howard wasn’t having a great year”) in my mouth simply because they disagree with me.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this
There goes another one of those “right at” outs.
By Alan
July 18, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
I agree with that AL scout about Davies. The guy has a world of talent, so I’m sure other clubs - especially young, struggling ones like the Royals and the Devil Rays and maybe the Reds - would gladly take him off the Braves’ hands. Problem is, what would the Braves get in return? Not much - unless he were part of a “package” including another prospect. Maybe the Reds would trade Arroyo for Davies and either Escobar or Saltalamacchia, but I wouldn’t. Same thing with Ian Snell or Noah Lowry. This isn’t the same as ‘96 when the Braves traded 3 young phenoms (Jason Schmidt being the only 1 who amounted to anything) for 1 veteran pitcher. That was Denny Neagle, and he was a proven in-his-prime winner. The Braves also were defending world champions at that time, solid at every position and with a loaded starting rotation. They could much more afford to trade prospects than this team could. While this team has a “reasonable chance” to make the postseason, its future - with studs like Escobar and Salty - is very bright. I’d have to be overwhelmed to trade either of those guys, and Bronson Arroyo doesn’t overwhelm me.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
Don’t trade Salty. Trade a prospect for Dmitri Young.
By FanWithNoName
July 18, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
Smoltz’s shoulder looks fine to me. Man, he’s smokin’.
By Dennis
July 18, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What would it take to get Zack Greinke from KC? Great arm and is capable of helping the Braves long term. Moore knows the Braves system. Could we get him for Escobar?
By Carolina Lady
July 18, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
DOB, LOL! I read the lyrics above and couldn’t help but think of Coltrane -
…”Any chance collision and I light up in the dark
There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair..”
…”Pull my chin, stroke my hair, scratch my nose..”
Davies: the boy is just too young to quit on. He’s in a bad patch, no doubt, but I just have a feeling about him……. Wish he could be sent to Richmond for ever-how-long it takes to get himself back together again.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
Thats a sign we will win this game. Harang doubles, but Kelly guns him down.
By MEB
July 18, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
A comment made by those who know baseball; “You could hang the wash on that rope Kelly let loose.”
GO BRAVES!!!
By Shaun
July 18, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Yes, he’s very young and it’s not as if he has been a mediocre pitcher throughout his minor league career. He was actually borderline dominant in the minors—2.91 ERA, 8.97 K/9 IP, 3.2 BB/9, 0.56 HR/9.
He has the ability. I think people forget about the groin injury and of course the fact he’s only 23.
Let’s not forget, John Smoltz didn’t really start to dominate hitters until he was about 28 or 29. Yes, he had some very good seasons before that but he also had some average or slightly-above-average seasons.
Davies’s groin injuries and struggles could be a blessing in disguise, although admittedly that does nothing to comfort us right now. The groin injury maybe kept him from throwing too much at an early age. His struggles may send him to the minors where he doesn’t have to throw as many high-stress innings at a young age. He can just concentrate on staying in shape, honing his skills and maybe developing another pitch or more movement on his fastball.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
Where is the Offense????
I know the guy is good, but COME ON!!!!!
Good teams win these games.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
Another multi game slump from the offense following a great couple games against the Pirates. This is really starting to become a trend.
If JS thinks this team can make the playoffs with the 1B questions and the starting pitching - he is sorely mistaken.
By Lee
July 18, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Typical Smoltz game. Pitches great and the Braves provide no runs for him.
By Christy
July 18, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
DOB, Carolina Lady,
I’m not exactlly going out on a ledge by agreeing with your august wisdom, but wanted to chime in on the Davies Issue. I remember watching Glavine in the early years and I always walked away thinking he was AWFUL (of course, I was much younger and maybe didn’t see the potential, only those 1st inning runs). If the Braves hadn’t stuck by him, Atlanta would not have benefited from the Cy Young picture he became. Davies’ debut against the BoSox in 2005 was too good to be a fluke. Patience, I think would be the better option, at least for what remains of this season.
By Salty
July 18, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
Shaun Yes…saw your reply. But after a post or two, it’s ok to say, “We agree to disagree”…or send an e-mail. As I’ve said before, you have passion…nothing wrong with that!
Agree with you (and others), why talk about trading Davies? Yes, he has problems. In fact, I was going to offer up a stat that DOB just included: home performance. It’s not the sole issue, but with all the home-grown talent on the team, does he feel added pressure for not being consistently stellar?
Lastly, ‘cause I hate novels; Johnson’s throw simply affirmed a return to left field can be his when the time is right. He stays over Escobar, in my opinion…and I don’t want Yunel leaving either, but that’s not realistic.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
I am angry.
By Chase
July 18, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
I know it is a dream but….
Trade Escobar or Salty and Davies for Griffey and Arroyo!
I know it won’t happen but could you imagine the Lineup? KJ, Renteria, CJ, Griffey, AJ, McCann, Francoeur, Salty
And the rotation…Smoltz, Huddy, Arroyo, James, Carlyle
That would be World Series caliber!
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
Man - Smoltz is really dealing. I think Bobby only lets him pitch one more inning.
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
ANDY POSTED: Reyes looked pretty darn good, but it was against the Reds.
Im not sure exactly what did u mean with that but as far as i know the reds lead the NL in HR and r 4th in runs scored……..so i think Jo Jo performance has a lot of credit.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Smoltz looks fine. Let’s keep getting quality out of Hudson, James and Carlyle and we can make this a damn nice homestand. It’d just be nice to get a W today!
I kinda hope Smoltzie wants to go 9 the way the Reds have been tearing up our bullpen.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Season-high nine strikeouts for Smoltz. I think his shoulder’s OK.
By Christy
July 18, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
I should never let grammar/spell-check overwrite… Cy Young pitcher he became…
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
It would be nice to see Frenchy actually hit a home run.
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
take it easy guys….. smoltz is gonna throw a HR from the mound…… and we will win 1-0.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
Efrim, they did indeed ask about Dmitri, but Bowden wants too much. No way I’d give up Brandon Jones, a potential lineup fixture, for him. And unless Harrison’s slipped in Braves’ eyes, can’t see them giving up a potential stud lefty starter for Dmitri, much as I think Dmitri could really help the Braves this season.
By Bay Area Steve
July 18, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Could you please tell me if you think the Braves will take batting practice on Monday in SF, after the late Sunday game? I can’t believe they would schedule a 6:30 game after that late flight.
Also, to any of the denizens near SF. I have three extra tickets in the cheap seats for the Wednesday game. I’ve seen a couple of you on here and you are welcome to them. I need some help supporting the Braves. I will quote the Great Grinch; “Join me for a beer or 12.”
I found this blog in spring training; absolutely invaluable for an out of area Braves fan. Thank you, DOB.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
DOB
Too bad the offense isn’t okay.
By Chase
July 18, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
DO NOT TAKE SMOLTZ OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
Sigh.
By Salty
July 18, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
Good teams lose these games, too! It’s why the pitcher’s called ‘ace’!
Christy Good analogy re: Glavine. I also like the august wisdom…means post-40, right? :-)
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
This is sooooooooooo wrong. How cant we score against the reds? Attitude. I dont want to see a HR i want a rally. If we win it on a HR i will consider it a loss.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this
DOB
James Parr should be enough to get Dmitri. But Bowden is a bad GM.
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this
whats the status on cormier????
By Shaun
July 18, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
Salty,
I don’t know. Davies performances at home and on the road aren’t all that different. His home ERA for his career is actually lower than his road ERA.
For 2007 he’s pitched very close to the same number of innings at home and on the road and he actually has more K’s, fewer BB and fewer hits at home. He has given up four more homers.
I don’t think he’s any more uncomfortable at home.
I think his struggles are do to his relatively straight fastball and him relying on it too much.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
Steve, I’d doubt the Braves would hit before that opening game out there. Strongly doubt it.
So whaddya say, you want to take a little BP of Bobby’s not using the field? We’ll get Bowman to throw (he’ll play the part of David Wells).
By Chase
July 18, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
Did anybody catch Bobby Cox on th epostgame last night talking about how he “Has always really liked Arroyo” and that he is “One of the elite pitchers as far as he was concerned”
maybe there was a hint in there
By Ryan
July 18, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
DOB — Any rumblings about Arroyo and/or Griffey coming to Atl?
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Good Job, Smoltz!! and KellY!!!!!!
By Lucas...
July 18, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Overlord
A win is a win to me….
But to each his/her own
By DAP
July 18, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
meanwhile, the bearded icon has recorded 11 strikeouts coming off the DL! awesome. now if we could string together some hits…
By DAP
July 18, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
triple kelly johnson!
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
KJ (8)has 1 less 3b than jose reyes(9)………..what about that?
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Go Salty!!!!, Ah, s@#% not Woodward, man
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
That’s two stand-up triples in two days for Kelly…
He’s got eight triples this season. If he played home at Florida or Colorado, where triples come a lot easier, he’d have 20 in a season.
By DAP
July 18, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
with smoltz at 93 pitches, i think you bunt salty over, and let the bearded icon go one more.
By Josh
July 18, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Go Kelly!
By daniel
July 18, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this
Soriano and Wickman really need to hold this lead for Smoltz. Won’t be easy, as the top of the order is coming up for Soriano to face. A win today with this dominant pitching performance would put the team right back on track to continue the recent surge.
By Salty
July 18, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Yes…a run! Now maybe the whiners will stop…all the tears mess my screen; hard to read the blog!
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
I have just ordered a truck-load of hitting mojo to be delivered to the Braves dugout. Contributions will be appreciated since I am on a fixed-income.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Wow, Willie Harris has really looked bad these last couple weeks. Looks like he is starting to revert to his old ways.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Lets get some more runs!!!!!
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Willie is starting to look like AJ at the plate.
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
FINALLY! You’d think we’ve been facing Cy Young, Whitey Ford and Greg Maddux the last 3 games the way we have been swinging the bats. Get some more runs!!
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Bullpen has to do the job here.
By Christy
July 18, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Salty,
The wisdom, I’m sure, has always been there. I’m not so far off from 40 myself to imply otherwise. : )
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Wow, has the homeplate umpire had a small strike zone like that all day?
By Salty
July 18, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Shaun:
OK…I was going with the 1-5 over 10 starts; 4-7 away. That’s about all the analysis I cared to invest. However, yesterday (lost in all the population talk), I did reference his failure to use the curve, which is darned good. Hopefully, he gets some time in Richmond, or maybe the bullpen will help.
By Carolina Lady
July 18, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Hey, Christy! There’s just something intangible about Davies, something I can’t even name, but I just have this feeling that at some point it’s going to click for him and will put smiles on all our faces! Sure hope so, anyway! :-))
Salty - watch your step there, my friend! One does not count birthday cakes! :-)))
By Bay Area Steve
July 18, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
Definitely want to take some BP. Although I try not to get kicked out before the first pitch. I could play the part of Henry Blanco, or maybe Greg Olson, the catcher from a decade or so ago. I think the denizens could come up with a helluva list here. JJS plays who? SJA? Grinch? Shuan? Bob? CL? et al.
Not to mention, if you’re going to poke fun at Bowman, who would you play?
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Come on Soriano, hold tight!!!!
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Kelly has to hit leadoff tomorrow.
By Lee
July 18, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
We do not need a 1st baseman - we have one…. Salty.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
dont mind walking Jr. I rather face Dunn than Griffey.
By ElbravoX-- EbX
July 18, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
Cardiac kids… Smoltz is a freaking stud!
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
He walked GRIFFEY. This is trouble.
By bravesfan
July 18, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
DANG IT!!!!
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
i look stupid
By geauxbraves2000
July 18, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
And the freaking Blo-Pen does it again.
Geaux Braves!!
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
Ballgame
What has happened to Soriano - he used to be unhittable.
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
Is this a joke?????
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
I knew that was going to happen.
By Chase
July 18, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
That may do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
That was a bomb, folks.
Soriano’s wearing down.
By DAP
July 18, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
how could we blow a win for smoltz like that. he was awesome today…GAH!!!! what has been up with soriano lately?
By Salty
July 18, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
Christy July, huh? Easy CL, I know all about august…and september! :-)
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
Who was it here that wanted Soriano to be our closer?
Dammit, he looks AWFUL lately. Damned long ball.
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
Feel like I just kicked in the b@#%s. If we don’t rally this afternoon, wow, this could be a tidal wave. To get swept by the Reds. Wow…
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
I dont blame the BP at all…….too much work load, and it is starting to show, but it will get better as the SP are doing better 1-4.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
Thats what happens when your starting pitching can’t go deep into games. Your bullpen wears down.
By Apaul404
July 18, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
What’s up with Soriano latley? He sure is giving up a bunch of extra base hits these days.
By Stephen
July 18, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
What’s up with Soriano of late? He used to just give up runs in blowouts…now, he’s giving them up a lot more frequently…
Come on boys…Smoltz’s chance for 10 wins is gone, but our bats can still get us the win…
By rotomeister
July 18, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Brandon Jones looked great when I saw him play in Montgomery last Wednesday night! Excellent game.
Time to put Kelly back at the top of the order in place of Willie Harris! Willie’s track record has shown that he’s not an answer over the long haul. Kelly’s numbers warrent an every day job some place in the lineup.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
This just in:
This team has no chance of making the playoffs as they just got swept by the 2nd worst team in the NL.
By Circa 1687
July 18, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Payne: The world is flat.
Isaac: No, the world is not flat
Payne: How else to explain the fact that people don’t just roll off the side of earth if it is round?
Isaac: Gravity.
Payne: Here’s an article showing that when an object is put on a round surface, it falls off. But on a flat surface, it stays.
Isaac: Gravity. It’s what holds you to the earth. It’s what makes the earth circle the sun.
Payne: Now, you’re telling me the earth circles the sun!? This defies logic. You can plainly see the Sun rising in the east and setting in the west. Obviously the sun circles the earth.
Isaac: It’s all gravity.
Payne: Sorry but you are absolutely wrong. You defy my logic. I have no proof, but I’m so logical it’s proof enough.
Isaac: Fine. The earth is flat, there is no gravity and the sun circles the earth. Now if you don’t mind, I’d like to finish eating my apple.
By Jo
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Crap. Smoltz deserved better. Skip just announced we’ve signed an agreement with Julio for the rest of the season.
By ssiscribe
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
THIS JUST IN: Julio’s coming home. Braves have signed Franco.
—30—
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
McCann better not hit into a DP!!!!!
By bravesfan
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Breaking News Braves sign Franco
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Wow they got Julio.
By Circa 1687
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Welcome back FRANCO!!!
By HP
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Its Official: Julio Franco signs with braves.
By daniel
July 18, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Braves just signed Julio according to Skip on the radio
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
BRAVES HAVE SIGNED JULIO FRANCO. He’s here, gonna talk to us after the game. Will be activated tomorrow.
By Steve from OH
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
Braves signed Julio Franco… Thoughts?
By Lee
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
This will not get it done. The Reds are not that good of a team. The Braves ARE in trouble.
By 1957 Braves Fan
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
Another blown save. More frustration. Let’s score more than one run.
By Carolina Lady
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
Julio returns tomorrow. #14.
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
JULIO FRANCO!
THE MESSIAH HAS RETURNED!!!!!!
The Braves are going to win it all, folks. It is etched in stone.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
All right, now that Franco is back what other moves are coming? Someone’s gotta go…Thorman, Woodward?
By ACB
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
Dob-Dude, I would like to file an official complaint with your superiors. You continue to avoid the topic of what-is-Dob-dude-gonna-do-on behalf of Steve Perry and Journey re-uniting.
Journey is the defacto band of ‘The Sopranos’ since Tony heard them last on celuloid.
It is a well known fact that DOB is a champion of ugly musical artists like Steve Earl and Roseanne Cash. Journey was not nearly so ugly back in the day. And they are pop music icons, selling many more records than The Man In Black.
Come clean DOB-Dude. Do you hate Journey and refuse to use your considerable connectedness to ensure positive karma within Braves-Nation.
Are you not up for The Journey?
The World awaits your answer.
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
its official JULIO is back
By P-Town Brave
July 18, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
Julio is coming…God help us all!
By Adam
July 18, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
We don’t need a 48 yr old pinch hitter! Why sign Julio? WHY???
By ElbravoX-- EbX
July 18, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
frenchy……
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
WE HAVE TO SCORE HERE!!!!!!!
GOOD TEAMS SCORE, RIGHT???
By Steve from OH
July 18, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Nice swing by BMac. Maybe we’ll pull this one out after all.
By SomeYahoo
July 18, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Julio is coming home!
By bravesfan
July 18, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
GREAT CALL BOBBY HIT AND RUN!!!
By MS
July 18, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Chip and Joe just said the Braves agreed to terms with Julio, who just cleared waivers today.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
How bout AJ…..B-Mac and Frenchy playing small ball……
By N8
July 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Well. Skip just said Julio signed today. YIPPY! (eyes rolling and finger twirling in the air).
Braves have announced he’ll be activated tomorrow.
Wonder who’s going away. My guess is Davies, since he was here for “emergency” relief duty with Smoltz’ uncertainty.
Smoltz is fine, Davies is not. Not sure Julio’s the answer for anything other than a trivia question, but maybe his veteran leadership will help Salty become THE MAN at 1B.
My fingers are crossed.
By Bear
July 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Julio Franco is back!
By rotomeister
July 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
They just announced that Julio has signed with the Braves.
If nothing else, I guess the Mets will have to change their signs.
Does this mean that Thorman goes to the minors, Woodward gets released, or we go with one less pitcher?
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Hearing rumors that Julio Franco is officially gonna be a Brave. Anybody confirm that?
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
I think Thorman DOES have some trade value despite his numbers this season. Woodward, however, does not and he can play several positions. So, I think the writing is on the wall for Thor.
By Chase
July 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
The Braves’ may not be consistant….BUT THERE IS NO QUIT IN THEM that could serve them well down the stretch no matter what happens today
Just in…FRANCO is a BRAVE AGAIN
By geauxbraves2000
July 18, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
I just heard Skip & Pete talking about Julio Franco being activated by the Braves tomorrow, but can find no info posted anywhere yet. Is this a fact?
Geaux Braves!!
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 18, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
Anyone remember the SNL Christopher Walken skit “Colonel Angus?”
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
Stinking Soriano. Can’t he just give up a little single every now and then instead of this monster HR?
Let’s get it back in the Win column KJ!
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Renegator,
A little premature…..
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Braves tie the game, Braves tie the game! We’re gonna parade down Peachtree, baby! All you hataz need to recognize! Julio’s back! He’s baaaaaaaaaaack! We tied the game! We did it! Recognize, hataz! Please do so! Yeah!
YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAH!
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this
NOT WICKMAN!!!!!
By Salty
July 18, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Wow…32 posts in 4 minutes…gotta be a record.
ACB
Yours was the best of the bunch!
By ACB
July 18, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Dob-Dude, I would like to file an official complaint with your superiors. You continue to avoid the topic of what-is-Dob-dude-gonna-do-on behalf of Steve Perry and Journey re-uniting.
Journey is the defacto band of ‘The Sopranos’ since Tony heard them last on celuloid.
It is a well known fact that DOB is a champion of ugly musical artists like Steve Earl and Roseanne Cash. Journey was not nearly so ugly back in the day. And they are pop music icons, selling many more records than The Man In Black.
Come clean DOB-Dude. Do you hate Journey and refuse to use your considerable connectedness to ensure positive karma within Braves-Nation.
Are you not up for The Journey?
The World awaits your answer.
By JDG123
July 18, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Listening to the game. Skip just announced that Julio Franco has been signed by the Braves and will be in uniform tomorrow.
By DAP
July 18, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
regenterator…so negative dude, at 3:14 when you posted, the game is still being played and were down by one, and your already giving the reds the sweep? wheres your heart, man? believe!
By Shaun
July 18, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Circa 1687,
Very funny, but yeah arguing against a round earth is the same as arguing against a shrinking baseball talent pool.
Because a stable or growing baseball talent pool defies logic, doesn’t it?
By 22oz
July 18, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
If Julio is the answer, what is the question?
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
Circa 1687 :-)!!! But, please don’t get him started again. He is sitting over there playing with his Rubiks Cube like a good boy.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
wow…..bunch of messengers today…lol
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 18, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
I’m thinking Julio will “have something to prove” and will contribute off the bench.
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Uh-oh, it’s Wick time. Not sure if I can take this game. I already have broken my phone here at my desk, the laptop might be next if we don’t win this one.
By Bake
July 18, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
I will guess that Ascanio will be sent down tomorrow to give room for Julio. That will give us about a week until Ledezma gets back. I would guess that Davies, if not used in the bullpen, will get one more start basically pitching for his job. If he pitches well he stays, JO-Jo sent down. If he doesn’t pitch well, he goes down. Making room for Ledezma.
By Steve from OH
July 18, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
I think signing Julio may be a precursor to a trade.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 18, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
Best thing about the Franco signing…The wife and I can sing “Me and Julio down by the school yard” whenever they mention his name…just like the good ‘ole days.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
Wow did you peeps see the home ERA on Wick? 1 ER in 35 innings, for a .26 ERA. how bout that.
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Smoltz deserved a better fate. Did the break do more harm that good for Soriano? His record would be so much better if he had some run support and a relief pitcher to help him after such a superb start.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
I do not understand the Julio signing. Why do we need another weak bat on the bench. We already have two guys hitting under .225 on the bench - Thorman and Woodward. This is a stupid signing.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
Just filed a story that’ll be on website in a minute or two. A brief story, before I get to talk to Franco and the powers that be after the game.
Don’t know yet how they’re going to clear a spot for him, but they could just send down a pitcher tomorrow now that the Smoltz concerns are erased.
Or they could try to get Thorman through waivers, but don’t know that they want to do that yet.
By Chase
July 18, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
MAN WHAT A SMALL STRIKE ZONE IT HAS BEEN TODAY!
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
I remember the “Colonel Angus” bit, GHF…
Colonel Angus
Hmm…rather ribald text there, I’d say.
Here’s the video clip:
Colonel Angus video
By StingerSplash
July 18, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
Don’t get me wrong. I have all the love and respect for Julio possible. But if he’s the answer, what’s the question? He can’t possibly be the everyday first baseman. He’s 48! The question for the Braves is who gets sent packing. Woodward can play a lot of positions, but Thorman can also play LF in a pinch, if I’m not mistaken. Plus, the Braves have Escobar to plug in all over the infield.
By Carolina Lady
July 18, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
Salty, you know I’m just playing!
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
Whew! Big Bad Bob always makes me nervous. Now, Salty drop the hammer!!
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
Franco back. Nice! It shall be interesting to see the roster moves.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
TBFKB:
Just wait…
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
THEY HAVE TO HIT STANTON!!!!
HE IS TERRIBLE!!!
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 18, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
I can feel one of my turns coming on with the whole Franco thing. Something resembling Grinch’s Joey Harrington fiasco lastnight. (Exhale, Hillbilly, Exhale.) Oh ##, I’m getting dizzy.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
LOL, who rembers when M. Stanton was our closer….
By ACB
July 18, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Sorry Dudes for the double post. I had a triple ‘Shroom pizza with mucho light beer and an herbal kicker. Had to make sure that DOB got the message.
Where oh where has DOB gone? Journey fans want to know. Are you with us, or against us?
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
FORGET JULIO!!! We need to win this game right now!
By Salty
July 18, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
CL
Of course! In fact, I just knew my comment would draw you to the keyboard!!!
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
Mike Stanton. He of the crappy journey man has set down the side. It was against rookies and a slumping Willie if that helps any.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
That sickens me that Stanton could strike out the side.
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
WTF?!? Stanton just struck out the side? What is it, the 1992 LCS vs the Pirates? What in the hell is going on here??? This team is driving me NUTS…
By geauxbraves2000
July 18, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
12 More strikeouts today. That’s 4 innings of not putting the ball in play. I totally disagree with “it’s not how you make the out” theory, for if you put the ball in play, maybe it’ll be booted, maybe a dribbler down the line stays fair, maybe the ball finds a hole. I’d rather see the ground outs or pop ups rather than a K, for at least there is a chance to reach base. With the K, unless the catcher drops the ball, you have no chance.
Geaux Braves!!
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
TBFKB Hell, I remember when the “Mad Hungarian” was our closer—and beyond.
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
People, the question that Franco answers is Veteran Leadership Off The Bench. Woodward certainly doesn’t answer that question.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 18, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
Sure Davies could be sent down to make room for Franco, but what about when Ledezma returns later this week? Reyes, perhaps but you’re gonna need a starter for Sunday.
By Lee
July 18, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
The biggest excitement about Julio coming back is to see who gets the axe or who gets traded.
By DAP
July 18, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
now they just need find a way to get rid of woodward and thorman, bring up pena and weve got something cooking.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
I thin we’re seeing the long-awaited market correction with Willie Harris. He’s got no extra-base hits or RBIs in his past 21 games, he’s 7-for-43 (.163) in his past 16 games, and he’s got five strikeouts in the past two days.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
Now you guys see why I was predicting the sweep before it was over… our bullpen blows. Way to go Braves, way to get swept by the 2nd worst team in the NL. Well at least we now have Julio Franco to save our season. HA!
By Jeff321
July 18, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
Well, it looks like Yates has lost the Braves another game… Btw, since they announced Julio Franco will be activated tomorrow, anyone know who is getting the boot? Btw, I was impressed with Jo Jo Reyes last night.
By StingerSplash
July 18, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
What in the hell has happened to the bullpen? Are those pod people out there?
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
JEEESEUS!! Have the Braves made AJ the hitting instructor?
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
DAMN YATES!!!
I knew he would blow it.
THIS BULLPEN IS CASHED.
By Adam
July 18, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this
Julio should be a coach, not a player. We don’t need a 48 yr old player coming off the bench. We need a reliable starting pitcher.
By Shaun
July 18, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Yeah, because Julio answered the veteran leadership question for the Mets, didn’t he?
Veteran leadership is helping the Giants and the Astros.
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
WAY TO GO CHIPPER!!!!
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
TYPICAL of the past six-seven seasons as a Braves’ fan.
To upgrade at 1B do we go get Mark Teixeira?
NO.
Do we go after Scotte Hatteburg (who’s hitting us like he’s Tony Gwynn, today)?
NO.
Do we go get a guy like Jeff Conine or Kevin Millar, who are at least hitting for average?
NO.
We, instead, go sign a 48-year old platoon man who couldn’t cut it for the team we’re 2.5 games back of. And of course, he’s the cheapest option out there.
World Series here we come!
Folks, this series, if we lose it, is the series we’ll all look back at and say cost us the division if we fall just short.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
Chipper is the man. I hope I have to eat my words on the sweep!!!
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
Go Chipper!!!!!!!!!Renteria
By DAP
July 18, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
who wants to bet frenchy gets the winning hit again today?
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
Naturally, as I hit post Chipper doubles in the tying run. LOL
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
Wow…..Chipper, Chipper, Chipper…..SB too
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
Come on - someone get Chipper in from third. There are no outs!
By Steve from OH
July 18, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
Man, are there any hitter more important to his team than Chipper? Heart and soul of the team (along with Smotzie, of course).
By Steve from OH
July 18, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
Man, is there any hitter more important to his team than Chipper? Heart and soul of the team (along with Smotzie, of course).
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
Renegator,
LOL you funny..
You gonna pitch to J. Francour with the game on the line?
This is sick…..the reds are being creative.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
Yeah, DO’B, I think the “Willie Harris at leadoff” experiment should die now. Kelly Johnson’s just a-chugging along, getting hits. Can’t help but notice our offense has struggled of late, and with Edgar and Chipper still hitting, you have to point to leadoff and think “they’re not hitting anybody in because the leadoff guy’s not getting on.”
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
DAMNIT! What are you going to do with that?
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
Standard issue Braves - runner on 3rd with no outs and can’t get the runner in.
By JordanPTC
July 18, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
I’m not too happy that we signed Julio, another Mets-cast-off. As if Woodward and his .220 batting avg didn’t teach us a lesson. Now we have to put up with a senior citizen who’ll likely put up worse numbers. Why don’t we just re-sign Brian Jordan? Give him a shot!?! Hey, he’s a great clubhouse presence!!!
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
That was a sick play by Phillips, give hte man props….nothing you can do about it….AJ and Frenchy hit it on the button.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
Lemme correct myself… we already lost the series… this series, if it means our getting swept today, is the series we’ll look back at….
…simply maddening how we can almost never get a guy home from 2nd when there’s nobody out. We have to lead the league in “runners in scoring position with nobody out stranded.”
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
This is amazing. We are snake bit. Runner on third no one out and we can’t win the game!!!!
FOR SHAME.
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
Quick question here…
How did Chipper get doubled off there? You don’t break on contact with the winning run, do ya? As good as his steal was, that was awful baserunning to get picked off of third.
By DAP
July 18, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
regenerator, nope, your still premature, why dont you just be quiet for awhile?
shouldhave jinxed francour…
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
Once again…if the Braves lose blame it on Cox… 1st and 3rd, one out and the infield is all set up back…a little bunt and we win…now watch the Braves loose…I bet the Mets would have bunted, and won
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
I DONT’ BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW…is this one of the craziest games we have seen in a while? Stay tough Braves, we HAVE to find a way to squeeze this one out.
By DAP
July 18, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
sorry, SHOULNT have jinxed him.
By S T I N K Y
July 18, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
10 Paul, I do not wish to be associated with misseur Soriano - as in ‘I’m sorry I aint no’ good.
By A-ville Ranger
July 18, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
I would have had Frenchy bunt in that situation.I guess who you are is who you are.BC went a few games where he used the bunt (with good results)he’s Bobby Cox though and he’ll always revert to comfortable choices.
By Stephen
July 18, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
Oh, Jeffrey…
By macdwolfpack
July 18, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
With Willie Harris’ production going down, maybe now we should try a lineup with KJ in LF and Escobar at 2nd in the same lineup. Something like this
Escobar 2b Renteria SS Chipper 3b Andrew CG McCann C Franceour RF KJ LF Salty 1b
Pretty damned potent lineup every night out with that lineup and Diaz, Franco,Thorman, and Woodward off the bench.
By ernesto
July 18, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
Unless Julio found some magic “speed up my bat” beans, I’m not psyched about signing him.
Come on Bravos let’s get some runs!
By Jo
July 18, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this
Chop-chop, I’m with ya. HOW in the %$#@ do you get picked off there???
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
Well, this game’s dragged so long, Julio had to get back to the retirement home for the early dinner.
Just kidding, but we’re not going to get to talk to him. He had to take a friend to the airport and won’t be back for the scheduled postgame meet-and-greet.
Braves probably wishing he could have been active today for one of those at-bats in extra-innings….
By ElbravoX-- EbX
July 18, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
Only baseball can give ups and downs like this…
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
That’s right, Willie; since you’re struggling and all, don’t take a pitch… nah…. hit the first thing they throw at ya, sport.
By Jeff321
July 18, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Wow, just how many blown opportunities are possible in one game?!
Why do they Braves always seem to have a stable of lamers in the bullpen? We’ve already discarded a few…. yet somehow Yates and Paranto keep getting sent out there. I’ll give Soriano a pass because he’s been pretty good this year. But, at this point, I’d rather see a minor leaguer giving up runs than Yates or Paranto.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
That Phillips is helluva player….
DOB,
M. Diaz has to be one of the most under-rated players in the game today. I still dont understand why the man does not play everyday. It baffles me. Do the scouts see something that suggest he’s not an everyday player?
By BamaBrave
July 18, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
Just what we needed…a long, exhausting game in the mid-afternoon heat, depleting our already strung out bullpen. We’d better win before we get down to poor ol’ Davies…
By JordanPTC
July 18, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
OK, serious question: who has had a worse game, Harris or Hopper????
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this
Face it folks…a bunt and we win…but doing it Cox’s way will probably end in a sweep, by the worst team in the NL..
The Braves new T-shirt should…
Blame it on COX!
Want to bunt don’t call COX
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
YOu have to like the Braves tenacity…they dont give up. I think AJ will go yard in his next AB
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
This is awful. They might have guts, but it won’t mean anything if they don’t win this game and AVOID GETTING SWEPT BY THE REDS!!!!!!
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
Well Andruw did not go yard, but I along with the rest of Braves nation will take the hit…Damn B-Mac, whatcha doing? We got us a marathon….watch this game go 18 innings and K. Davies pitches four scoreless with CJ hitting a game winning shot. that would be kinda cool huh?
By Josh
July 18, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
At the pace this is going…Julio might be back for the postgame show…
By BamaBrave
July 18, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
Unbelievable…
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this
Maybe they don’t deserve to win.
By A-ville Ranger
July 18, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
The scout who said he’d take Davies made a good point.I remember some greats who had problems centered between the ears who over came them (Smoltz).The thing that worries me most is it seems Davies problems could be located a little left of center in his chest cavity.If so the prognosis isn’t as good.
By bravedawg
July 18, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
DOB - you act like your surprised that Kelly isn’t upset about not leading off. If Willie is playing well he is a much bigger threat in front of Edgar and Chipper and personally I think that Kelly could be a great RBI guy behind place setters because he waits on the right pitch so well and has more power the Yunel or Willie. Quit making people believe that Kelly is upset to not leadoff, yeah he did great but to me it sounds like he wants the TEAM to win and he is supporting his teammate. I think it is great to have Yunel or Willie leadoff and kelly at 5 or 6. I think either way it will be great for the Braves.
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this
This is a real trip, dbl play, dbl play ah, man what is this about?
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this
End it here, Frenchy!!!
By Bravesfanin MetsLand
July 18, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this
Man, Chip and Joe just brought up geographical realigning in baseball, and how tough say the Northeast region would be (Mets, Yankees, Boston, Philly, Baltimore). Could you imagin the Southeast division? Braves, nationals, Maerlins, Devil Rays? You think 14 division titles in a row is a lot? We’d win division titles there for the rest of our lives.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
Kirk Saarloos came in with an ERA over 6, kids… he’ll leave damn near at 4 the way we’re (not) hitting him.
By Bravesfanin MetsLand
July 18, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
Man, Chip and Joe just brought up geographical realigning in baseball, and how tough say the Northeast region would be (Mets, Yankees, Boston, Philly, Baltimore). Could you imagin the Southeast division? Braves, nationals, Maerlins, Devil Rays? You think 14 division titles in a row is a lot? We’d win division titles there for the rest of our lives.
By BamaBrave
July 18, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
Hahahahhaaaaaa…the double plays are driving me insane…
By 1957 Braves Fan
July 18, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
The Braves can’t afford to waste opportunities.
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
It’s up to Thorman, you kidding me?
By brent a.
July 18, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
get ready for another “dance on the dugout”
t-shirts for everyone!
By Thorman at bat
July 18, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
1-2-3
By SteelCav
July 18, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
And Thor strikes out on three pitches. Lookin good there kid.
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
I would have rather seen Jo-Jo pinch hit there instead of Thorman. Thor is really a waste of a roster space.
By HP
July 18, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Scott Thorman just put an exclamation point to be in major league with braves. 3 pitches and 3 swinging strikes.
By Bubbaallred
July 18, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Thorman=Waivers=TODAY
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Do to my frequent absence I dont know this guy who is pithcing….How did we get Ascino and who is he?
By BossLady
July 18, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Maybe they should do like the Senate bring in cots and twin beds, stay there until they get something done.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
You believing this?
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
THORMAN does not belongs to the bigs yet, he needs to be send down, he could be very good in the near future but his place right now is AAA. Bring up brian peña and let salty play first maybe along with chipper or matt. or let him play every day.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Thorman - what a waste
By MBATL
July 18, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
I don’t know what you guys are talking about, comparing Davies to a young Smoltz. I’m not down on Davies, mind you, but at age 22:
Smoltz was an allstar, started 29 games, 2.94 era, led the league in K’s with 215, and a career best (as a starter) 1.115 WHIP. Smoltz was clearly a star at 22 years old; Davies, not so much. That’s not to say “dump him,” but the comparison is just not accurate.
bravedawg, I agree about KJ. I suspect he’d like to play every day (and I think he should), but I’ve never heard him complain about not batting leadoff; it probably is the last thing he cares about.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS!!
By BamaBrave
July 18, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
16 hits…3 runs…cheeeeezus…
By Overlord
July 18, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
i think now that julio is signed, thorman is gonna be send down.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
Who ever he is he looks good.
By HP
July 18, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
I don’t know what JS is going to do. But I would sent down Kyle Davies and let Jo-Jo Reyes pitch Sunday. Keep Jose Ascanio in the bullpen until Ledezmma comes back.
By Renegator
July 18, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
Man, Willie Harris sucks now
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS!!!
Julio Franco may be the 1st 2-sport player in Atlanta since Deion Sanders when the Desperados(formerly the Falcons)announced that Franco would be given “every opportunity” to make the team as quarterback.
In related news: Morten Andersen is being moved to wide-receiver.
Now, back to the game.
By d-rock in Scotland
July 18, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
greetings fellow bloggers. Wathcin’ this game on the internet. I’m sitting here in Aberdeen Scotland sipping my whisky looking forward to heading out to the British Open tomorrow. Hopefully this sucker will be over by then. Thorman was the last position player off the bench for a reason I’m afraid.
By geauxbraves2000
July 18, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
Willie’s K makes 16 K’s for the day, 5+ innings of not putting the ball in play.
Geaux Braves!!
By brent a.
July 18, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this
TBFKB:
Ascanio was called up from Miss late last week after Ledezma lost his visa (or something like that)
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
I love this lineup. Even with the struggling and all. Every batter coming up offers hope. 1-2-3 the go down, but next inning it’s just as likely to be something special.
Problem is, I don’t trust this pitching staff. But, after 14 innings, they’ve held the Reds to 3. Keep it up. We’ll break through soon… I hope.
GO BRAVES
By A-ville Ranger
July 18, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
I like the looks of this Ascanio kid.His pitches really move and he seems to believe he belongs.Talk all you want about fire,I’ll take a calm,confident demeanor in a pitcher.
By StingerSplash
July 18, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
Remember when the Reds started this series with the worst bullpen this side of the international date line? The Braves are making them look like Charlton, Dibble, Myers and Murphy reincarnated.
By David
July 18, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
You’re misremembering the career tribulations of John Smoltz. It’s either that or you are too young to remember them.
In 1991, John Smoltz was the black hole in our rotation the first half of the season. He started out with a record along the lines of 2-12. Fans were screaming for him to be sent back down to the minors, claiming he was what might hold us back from winning the division. Then, he started seeing the sports psychologist, got hot down the stretch and wound up our best pitcher the second half of the year.
I’ve never seen him happier than the day he got his 14th win and realized he was assured of having a winning season after everything that had gone wrong to start the 91 season. If not for Bobby Cox’s show of confidence in Smoltz in a similar situation, his career could have easily gone much differently.
By Stephen
July 18, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
Ascanio is a AA kid that got the call because Ledezma forgets to clean out his pockets before he washes his clothes.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
Sorry, about the “partial post”. We are havin’ a real gully washer with lots of lightning. I’m shutting down!
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this
Wow, for a game going 15 innings the game time is not bad at all. Just over four hours. I like these long games. shows what kinda hear your team has. I hope K. Davies has a good outing.
Buster Olney has a column up stating Braves intrest in Arroyo. I guess thats nothing new as the name comes up in frequent post on the blog.
By urggh.
July 18, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this
urgh… davies winding up in the bullpen.. please do not let it get to that
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this
Uh, Scott Thorman cannot be simply “sent down.” He has to clear waivers, Overlord. You new to the blog, man?
By A-ville Ranger
July 18, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
MBATL ——I don’t know if you’re saying I compared Davies to Smoltz.If you are you’re reading too much into my point…….way too much.
By David
July 18, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
If Arroyo pitches the rest of the season like he did last night, I would gladly take him. I doubt he would cost as much, too.
By woogidy
July 18, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
Welcome back DOB.
By BamaBrave
July 18, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
Abba-de-abba-de-abba-de…THAT’S ALL FOLKS!!!!
HORRIBLE
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
F@(&!!
This will be the sweep we say killed this season, folks.
Last place in their division, worst record in the league, and they sweep us in our damned stadium because we can’t get a runner from 2nd or even 3rd with no outs.
Fundamental baseball stuff - we can’t execute.
By parks
July 18, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
Here comes the blog meltdown
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this
Well damn.! That sucks. Lets see if we can come back for the third time in the bottom half.
I have reserved judgment on K. Davies until I heard how old he was. The guy is freaking 22. I don’t think you can trade a pitcher with his stuff couple with him being that young. I dont think you can send him to the minors either, as that could absoulty destroy him. Tough case, look whats happened to R. Ankeil…..Let the man pitch the number 5 spot in the rotation and pick up another SP.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this
Braves are worthless.
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this
Well Ron Roberts, 5-3 Reds, looks like the whole season is finished. Pack it up and plan for next year. It’s a shame really…. so much promise. So much potential. So many games left to play.
By Bubbaallred
July 18, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
No matter how much anyone protests, bloggers keep talking about thorman being sent down. Maybe those of us who know better should just stop bothering to correct them. It’s obviously a waste of time. Ignore ‘em!
By StingerSplash
July 18, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones has now passed Scott Thorman in batting average. Yikes.
By NYCMetsFan
July 18, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
Losing three in a row to one of the worst teams in baseball?
tee hee…
MWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
By d-rock in Scotland
July 18, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this
Looks like AJ is coming around, that’s some welcome news.
By Bubbaallred
July 18, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this
Maybe we can pull this one out. Cmon folks, root root root for the home team!
By cricket
July 18, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
I couldn’t see the game (gotta work to live) but 3 runs on so many hits means this has to be blamed on the offensive (!) approach. I like chipper and he may even batting title but what is he batting with RISP or even runners on?
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Here comes the blog meltdown
LMAO. Funny stuff Parks. Oh man. Saw that right as Francoeur knocked in AJ. Still alive.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Saltalamacchia’s batting average down to .288, folks. The pitchers have wised up on he and Willie.
By Bubbaallred
July 18, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
Hey! we scored from 2nd base. Whopee!!
By Bubbaallred
July 18, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this
If salty fails to bring in a run that will be 6 LOB for him today. Maybe we should trade him. I WANT TEX!
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
Ouch, talk about brutal… Sweep the lowly Pirates, got the lowly Reds coming into town and………… We are now .500 on the homestand. Just extremely depressing to boot that our hopes rest on Kyle Davies PINCH HITTING! Of course I’d rather see him pinch-hitting than starting…
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
Nauseating.
By A-ville Ranger
July 18, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
Swept by a low end team at home. We keep coming back to this,the Bravos are little better than a .500 team it seems.Like I posted last night a great young nucleus,but nota complete team yet.To end a game with Davies pinch hitting….that’s just sad.
By TBFKB
July 18, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
awwww….that sucks.
By Anders
July 18, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
The Braves acquire Julio Franco - How long before Dale Murphy comes through the door? Braves fans can talk about all the local talent they want - they rode 3 HOF pitchers for all they were worth. If you had a closer in the 90’s you probably win 3 WS rather than 1 - but the fact of the matter is it’s over folks. Time to move on and rebuild. Not sure where Julio Franco fits in that plan but good luck and good riddance !
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
HA HA HA!
I called it….
Bunt Cox Bunt!
But did he…did we win….No he played COX ball and lost… When you have a runner on third and one out in the ninth for the winning run…BUNT!….
Swept by the REDS……HA HA HA HA!!!!!
And I am a Braves fan…bunt don’t understand COX’s philosophy…He does not play smart when needed…
Is this is the prelude for the second half?
By Andy
July 18, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
TBFKB, Kyle Davies is not 22. He’s going to turn 24 in September.
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
The Reds defeat the Braves by a final score of 5-4. Denizens, you may now roll your eyes.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
Worst loss of the season. Worse than the Florida game. This one hurts.
CAN’T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS WHEN YOU GET SWEPT BY THE REDS!!!
AWFUL!!!!!
By Maine Braves fan
July 18, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
I think that unless we get a good offer we should not trade salty or escobar. I think they could help us
By SteelCav
July 18, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this
I think I’m going to be sick.
By Yars
July 18, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
Good grief we were just swept by the Reds!?!?! WTF? How in the hell? Just because the Cardinals are having a bad season, let’s not underestimate them.
By joe
July 18, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
Poor Kyle!! Through out the first pitch and took the last swing on a very disappointing series. What’s going on in his head now??
By Wookie
July 18, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
ookie, are you in here? ookie, you silly wookie, when you’re done cracking puppy skulls, momma says to come home.
By MBATL
July 18, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
A-ville Ranger, no, I was replying to a couple of other posts, not to you. Sorry if any misunderstanding.
By parks
July 18, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
WWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
sniff, sniff WWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
The season is not over yet people. Lets try to show some stones.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this
May I offer my condolences to the Atlanta Braves on their demise. RIP.
No, I don’t expect a response to this “condolence” either.
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
Man, I thought I was convinced a month ago that the Braves were no more than a slightly above .500 team. Then I got tricked into thinking otherwise before this series (had won 4 straight, 12 out of 16) and was expecting 2 out of 3 in this series, and then we go out and get SWEPT??? By CINCINATTI??? Just gives me a sick feeling in my stomach knowing that we really are just a slightly above .500 team. And yet, in the sh!tty National League that means we will be in at least the wild card race until mid September. And I will have to endure this sick feeling in my gut many more times until then…
By Andy
July 18, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I dont know if I would say that you cant make the playoffs if you get swept by the Reds. After all, the Angels got swept by the Royals and they appear headed to the playoffs.
By tyyosh
July 18, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
Sorry daxxed, Francouer (one of MLB’s top clutch hitters) should have bunted? He ripped a shot that took an all-out fabulous play at 2nd, and Chipper absolutely fell asleep at 3rd. He should own up to that bonehead mistake. Were you around for the ripfest last year when Laroche tried to bunt in the 9th?
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
I’m not saying this team is loaded, but for crying out loud, somebody needs to answer for a home sweep at the hands of the mighty Cincinatti Reds.
We put up Kyle Davies and Jo Jo Reyes up against one of the best hitting teams in the league on the heels of sweeping the Pirates. I’d have rather come out of the All-Star break with Reyes and Davies pitcihng against the Pirates, personally. Put your better pitchers up against the hotter-hitting teams.
What is it about this team? When the starter fails, the bullpen holds, but we still lose. The starter sparkles, then the bullpen fails and we lose. The offense lights it up a few games, then inexplicably goes limp a few days. We still lose.
Jose Asciano - a AA callup, has pitched better than Rapahel Soriano, our supposed “closer” material.
The league’s figured out Willie Harris (leadoff man???) and Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and our big guns, Andruw and Chipper, only seem to hit when nobody’s on, anymore. Didya know that Chipper’s only collected 6 RsBI this month, so far? Didya know he went seven consecutive games without an RBI before yesterday? Oh, he hit in five of those games…
Something ain’t right when your best hitter’s a platoon left-fielder, folks. Something ain’t right when you talk about playoffs all the while your ace pitches seven shutout innings and you still manage to lose ‘cause ya can’t scratch out a run when you have RISP w/nobody out.
Something ain’t right, and I dunno that making trade(s) would change the air of ineptitude with this franchise, anymore. I just don’t.
I’d love us to go get Teixeira; I’d be delighted if we went out and got him and a starter like Arroyo or Kevin Millwood to bolster the rotation.
But something tells me they’d just get here, and something else would happen. Millwood would pitch lights-out and we’d be shut-out by a rookie lefty. Tex would go 4-for-5 with a homer and 6 RsBI and Huddy’d pitch 7 strong only to see Yates, Soriano and/or Wickman collapse.
It’s always something with this team.
By Tomahawkin' Again
July 18, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
I am absolutely shell-shocked at what just happened the last 3 games. How can you get swept by a garbage team like the Reds and be considered a legit threat? We’re kidding ourselves here that we have a shot at October unless JS makes moves to plug the holes. Plus, maybe if we didn’t have 13, 14 or 20 pitchers currently on the roster, maybe we could have had someone else up instead of Davies in the 15th. I am sick! God, I hate investing so much of my energies into a stupid baseball team!!!!
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this
parks, why do we need to show some stones when COX dosen’t show no scence.
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
parks you are right, just soooo freakin’ frustrating you know?… But like you said the season ain’t over yet, and believe me the Mets have problems of their own. Lets all root for our (former) boy Greg Maddux tonight against the Mets, we need some help Mad Dog!!!
(Although, we are 2 behind SD for the wild-card and 2.5 behind the Mets. So who should we really be rooting for?)
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
Why does COX refuse to Bunt to tie on the road or win at home…
Frannie could have been the hero…if he would have bunted instead of swung, especially the way the Reds had set up their defense in the 9th with CJ on third…we would be praising him and looking toward tomorrows game…instead now I expect the Braves hometand will leave them 4 behind the Mets….
By roseanna roseannadanna
July 18, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
It just goes to show, it’s always something.
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
Now if the Braves are 5 games out of first or the wild card at the end of the year then blame it on COX’s refusal to bunt with runners on 3rd and one out…We could have won 2 games at home this year and tied 3 on the road, if he would have bunted the run in…So if the Braves loose by 5….It is all COX’s fault for not BUNTING…..
And that is not counting how many times the Braves had a runner at 2nd with no outs and COX did not bunt the runner over then bunt the runner in…
Hell even Freel tried it in this game with Phillips on third and one out. He just failed to lay it down, but they scored the runners anyway…
WAY TO GO COX
By parks
July 18, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this
daxxed b/c whining about a bad stretch does just as much as whining about the manager NOTHING!! The Braves still have a great shot at the playoffs. Yes this team is flawed, but so is every other team in the NL. Everybody can call me crazy I still think we make the playoffs
Let the name calling begin.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this
parks, you are not asking us to show stones, you are asking for Stone Mountains.
By Lucas...
July 18, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this
so many fair-weather fans… Yes Cinci isn’t that good. But all you people saying that they are just horrible, I don’t understand. You say how horrible they are yet you want the braves to trade for two starting pitchers that threw at us, two bench/1st basemen they have, and one right fielder… Just seems something is wrong with that.
Yes the Reds are not a very good team… once you get past the first two pitchers in thier rotation. And I know that the braves lost to another pitcher but Kyle Davies pitched that game. I do agree that the braves need something, but it’s only july. Worst case, the braves are three and a half back… BIG DEAL. I will take that considering everything.
So before you guys go jump off bridges, or start demanding that we trade for half of the “awful Reds”, just wait about a month. You will live longer.
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this
tyyosh, funny Beltran has bunted this year, I think he is a good hitter also…and becides a failed bunt attempt and one out, is much better than a double play…and that is what the Braves seem to do the majority of the time whe they have a runner on 1st and 3rd with one out and try to hit instead of bunt teh runner in…They hit into double plays.
One out and a run is always better the two outs or a maybe run. BUNT …
Torrie does it…How many World Series does he have…The Mets do it…Boston does it…Dteroit does it…Marlins do it, they did it to beat the Braves…Phillies do it… So where is your defense now… No matter what you say….if Frenchy would have bunted we would have won….there is no argument…
It’s funny this team can beat the best but get swept by the worst…
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this
This is basically what I felt like after the Tigers swept us.
By songwriter jimmy smith
July 18, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this
Hear the lonesome whiperwill
He sounds too blue to fly
The Braves season is winding down
I’m so lonesome I could cry
I’ve never seen a game so long
When time goes crawling by
Smoltz just went behind a wall
To hide his face and cry
Did you ever see Bobby weep
As the team begins to die
That means he’s lost the will to live
I’m so lonesome I could cry
There’s silence in Thorman’s bat
And it makes you wonder why
I wonder where the hitters are
I’m so lonesome I could cry
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 18, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this
Well, win or lose, here will come the Muts trolls. And you know what? I haven’t the stomach to take ‘em on after the way the Trembles have butchered the last 3 games. I’m going to get drunk—very drunk—and go to bed. Tomorrow is another day, Scarlett.
By Epinephrine
July 18, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this
haha, good lord people, the season is over? It was a crap series, no doubt. But my goodness. This place is the most knee-jerk reactionary crowd on the interwebs. Let’s see if we can turn it around against the cards.
By tyyosh
July 18, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this
daxxed, I don’t know why you automatically assume that every bunt attempt would be successful. Why don’t you compile some stats on how many 4-5-6 hitters in MLB have attempted bunts this year in any kind of runner-at-3rd situation. Let the numbers settle it.
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this
A couple of thoughts:
1) Yates should now take Soriano’s spot in the bullpen as the primary setup man. I could just see that HR coming by Adam Dunn after Soriano walked Griffey. Once Soriano comes back around move him back into the primary setup role.
2) We did run into a hot Bronson Arroyo (yesterday was his 5th straight quality start) and we did lose to Aaron Harang today(the most under-rated pitcher in all of baseball IMO) There was definately alot of luck involved in all of Cincy’s wins in this series. Just sucks they had to get lucky against us.
3)Willie Harris has regressed back to the mean. It’s time for our most patient hitter to re-take his spot at the top of the order (KJ)…
4)Wren, Scheurholz, Cox: PLEASE get rid of Thorman once Franco gets here. It’s over, we can’t afford to keep him on the roster anymore.
5)Salty’s message is being heard loud and clear by me - He is a CATCHER. I think he’s worrying too much about his defense at 1B and it’s hurting his offense. Catcher comes naturally to him and it makes him a better hitter (cuz hitting becomes his SOLE focus).
6)Don’t want to go ALL negative here, so, how about Edgar Renteria? The guy is simply amazing; ho-hum another 4 hit day. And John Smoltz, 7 shutout innings with 11k’s, definately a good sign… And finally, lets look on the bright side - Can anyone even name 2 starters on the Cardinals???
By Mets rule. You drool
July 18, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this
Thank you. We’ll take that extra game lead. Very nice of you . I thought Smoltz was suposed to be a “lock”, evidently not a very strong lock. But now that you have Julio everything should turn around right? Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU SUCK! Run and hide. Run and hide. The big mean Mets fans are here and your defenseless becuase youre team blows. Hahahahaha!!!!! ROTFL
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 18, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
How ‘bout Salty and Davies for Dan Haren and Dan Johnson? Would Beane do that deal?
By T
July 18, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
What do scouts know? They are wrong more than the weather man and Terence Moore.
By Scott
July 18, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
Just start Salty everyday. That’s all you need to do.
By Lucas...
July 18, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
where is the censorship for the “ookie” person. I would much rather read another word for buttocks opposed to what this person is typing… just rediculous.
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this
Can somebody either BLOCK this ookie moron’s ISP or point him to a damned Falcons blog?
It’s stupid @$$ morons like that who bog these blogs down so bad it takes half an hour to load ‘em.
Guy’s got as much sense as a moron QB dog-fighter.
By manolo
July 18, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
This series reminds me of last years exact same scenario. We went to Cincinnati to play a weekend series after all those great scoring games where we scored more than 10 runs. We went to the top of the ninth, loadee the bases against Guardado, BMAC short fly, and Frenchy hit into a DP to finish it. These games crush us. MEts have several games where they been down in the ninth at home, not one run but even 5, and they’ve come back to win.
There is one other aspect of Cox strategy i don’t understand. In the last few games, two or three times HArris gets on with 0ne or no outs, and instead of steling or hit and run with Renteria, we do nothing, and Renteria hits into a DP, every time the same way, ground ball to short. Looks like with a man on first, for a crazy reason i don’t get, instead of trying to hit to right he tries to pull. All other teams use the fast runner to make things ahppen, but we just sit there. Why in the world do we want a fast runner first, if we are not going to manufacture runs????????
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this
After all the bats are in their boxes
And the fans have all gone to bed
You can hear bunioned toes staggering on down the street
Doubled-off, Chipper’s dead
And the crowd mutters, “Larry…”
A broom is drearily sweeping
Up the broken pieces of another Braves loss
Somewhere, a voice needs bleeping
Somewhere, a scribe’s asking, “Hoss?”
And the crowd, it cries, “LARRY!”
The traffic lights, they turn, uh, blue tomorrow
And shine their emptiness down on his head
The poor switch-hitter sags his shoulders
Cause the game we’d tied
Is, uh…dead
And the crowd screams, “Larry!”
Uh, will the crowd ever remember
The names it has blamed in the past?
And with this crutch, its anonymity and its blogging
It whispers, “No. This won’t be the last…”
And the crowd cries, “Larry!”
By metsmanintheatl
July 18, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
your team is pathetic…season ended today with sweep at home by lowly reds…METROPOLITANS WILL WIN DIVISION BY 20 GAMES ON WAY TO WORLD TITLE…THE NEW YORK CITY TEAM…YOUR NEW YORK METROPOLITANS!!!GLAVINE IS SO GLAD HE STAYED!!!STILL PLAYING IN POSTSEASON AS PAPOOSES WATCH ON THE TELI
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
Well, there ya go, kids. Scott has it ALLL figured out for us.
Dude, Saltalamacchia played in all three games of the Cincy series, and we lost.
Is there a correlation? No. Does playing him everyday insure a Braves’ win, though? No.
But he was 2 for 14 in the series. In fact, he’s hitting .222 for the month. I’m telling ya, the league’s onto him, now, and what we’re getting is far less than the Saltalamaniacs had conjured up in their heads a few weeks back.
Time to come back down to earth, folks. He’s not gonna hit .365 and knock out 50 HRs a year with 120 RsBI. Does he have tremendous upside potential? Yes. Will he be the next “can’t miss” Albert Pujols-like player? I’m thinking not. I’ve said it awhile now; he’s not un-tradeable.
Time to consider trading him if he (and another lower-level prospect) gets us an Ian Snell.
By braveboyfromblairsville
July 18, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
we need to make some roster moves now before this season gets anymore out of hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!wake up scherholz and robert cox!!!!
By Ron Roberts
July 18, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this
Harris has gotten on lately, Manolo??
By BRAVES BELIEVER
July 18, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this
swept by the reds??????????///i am beginning to disbelieve…what went with the pride this team had over the years?????????????a dissappointed loyalist
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this
ookie we get it, Vick is a complete low life scum-bag who should be strung up by his ankles and beaten, electrocuted and stabbed just like he did to those pit bulls… Just go talk about it somewhere else cuz just thinking about what he did to those defenseless dogs makes me sick…
By another mets fan
July 18, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this
GO ME….oh wait…yeah,needed to check the scoreboard before I posted. It’s a Braves loss so I can post today. I’m just a Mets fan who’s so not concerned about the Braves. I’m so unconcerned that I can’t seem to stop blogging on a Braves blog. Nevermind that I’m not ever blogging on any other NL EAST team’s blog. So long as you understand I’m really not worried about the Braves.
We all know a 3 game lead in July is a lock right?
By daxxed
July 18, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this
tyyosh, no there is no guarantee, except it would only be one out instead of 2…
By JasonInMaine
July 18, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
Now that we signed Julio, when can I order my playoff tickets?
This move really does little for the on the field product. JS needs to make a real move sooner than later. Again, if there is no pitcher available (I say get Vazquez); go get Tex…yes, even if it involves Salty. I do it as it helps this year and next!!!
Regards,
Jason
By thisteamisterrible
July 18, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this
we are under .500 after 7-1 start…what is the problem,,when you cannot score for smoltz and lose…you are in for a terrible finish…sub .500//probably 5th in division…THANK GOODNESS FOR THE NATIONALS!!!!!!!
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts I partially agree with your take on Salty, BUT, he is a CATCHER. I think he’s worrying too much about his defense at 1B and it’s hurting his offense. Catcher comes naturally to him and it makes him a better hitter when he starts there(cuz hitting becomes his SOLE focus). I really think he can be a special talent behind the plate (offensively and defensively), but lets face it, as a first baseman his defense stinks and his offense is probably about league average. I agree Ron that if he can get us an Ian Snell, we do it without hesitation…
By ernesto
July 18, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure I’d rather have Julio up there for the final AB or Davies. I think Davies has more HR this year.
Maybe this means Woodward is goneward? That would be a plus. More likely it means Thorman is hustling down to Richmond or off to KC.
Ahhh, the troll downpour, inevitable, ignore it and it will pass.
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this
Thank you ookie, now I just hope you are a man of your word and not a dirt-ball like Mike Vick…
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
Watching the Yanks-Blue Jays game right now on Directv and noticed something… Are the Blue Jays going to be sellers at the deadline? Cuz what about trading for Lyle Overbay to play 1b for us? That guy would be a HUGE upgrade over what we have. I just don’t know his salary situation (someone want to check for me?)…
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this
It really is too bad that the Angels don’t need a solid young catcher (although Salty’s got waaaay more potential than Napoli). I bet we could get Ervin Santana and a prospect from them for Salty (if they needed a catcher)… Stupid Angels I swear. They optioned Santana down to the minors today, which officially has killed his trade value. They could have traded him last year for freakin’ Manny Ramirez! See Stoneman (and many Braves bloggers) NO prospect is a sure thing….
By Chad
July 18, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this
Honestly, I feel that if the Braves are going to make a serious run at a NL East crown, they need a top flight starter and a quality, proven starter at first base. I feel that the pitchers are doing adequately well in keeping the offense in the game, so a bat (i.e; Mark Texeria) would be a welcome addition. The Braves have PLENTY of talent in the minors to trade for him, even if he does make $10 million in arbitration next year, it’ll be $3 million less than what Andruw is making now, and Texeria is a switch hitter and 6 years younger. Don’t get me wrong, I love Andruw, but his Agent Scott Boras will be asking around the $17-$20 million figure annually for his services, and the Braves won’t even consider that. I was hoping the Braves would have won the Mark Buerle sweepstakes, but things happen for a reason. I feel the only reason why the Braves signed Franco today was for leadership and veteran presence in the clubhouse. If that alone rubs off on the younger players, then it will be money well spent and hopefully carry them to the postseason. I look for the GM to make a move of some capacity, either a big bat at first or a quality pitcher to compliment Smoltz, Hudson, Carlyle, and James. Please share your opinions
Regards,
“The Faithful Braves Fan”
By Craig
July 18, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
The holes at the back of the rotation and the worn-out bullpen are starting to show up. This team does not have enough starting pitching to even think about contending. The games against the AL show how truly bad the Braves are. They should break this team up and deal everybody except Smoltz & Francoeur and try to re-build. Unless Liberty Media is going to drop some cash on the team, they are going to be treading water until Hampton’s ridiculous contract is up after ‘08.
By DonCoburleone
July 18, 2007 7:39 PM | Link to this
Wow, 6-0 St. Louis over Florida in the 3rd inning! Man, what has happened to Dontrelle Willis??? His ERA is now over 5!!!
By Ron
July 18, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this
Efrim This is FAR worst getting swept by the Reds than when we got swept by the Tigers!!! At least the Tigers are ONE of the Best Teams in MLB!!! The Reds are ONE of the Worst Teams in MLB!!! I am glad I did not see this game today, Im glad I was sanding my car and getting it ready!!! Could not of watched this game!!!
Ron Roberts I hear you man we gotta lead the league in not scoring with a runner on 2nd and 0ut!!! Last night KJ hit a leadoff double and Salty came to the plate and struck out instead of moving him to third!!! And guess what we did not score in that inning!!! And we lost that game by 1 Run!!! This team is very irritating, we need more than just a good Starter!!! Even IF we get a Good Starter our offense will STILL do the EXACT same thing when a runner is at 2nd and out!!! We have a MAJOR problem!!! To be honest with you this is about the best this team is, about 5 games above .500!!! But of course that means we still have a chance to make the playoffs, and then we will LOSE Again in the playoffs!!! At this point who cares if we make the playoffs, we aint gonna win nothing, been down that road TOO MANY TIMES!!! But the Braves are still my team and never gonna give up on them!!! I might call them pathedic and a dissgrace, But there still my team!!!
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this
What is our record in one run games?
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this
God, I picked a bad night to get almost no sleep….
What a game. Someone said it right _ the bullpen is showing serious signs of wear, thanks in large part to all those early exits by starters.
Yates has hit a wall, but the bigger surprise is Soriano. To think, he was arguably league’s best reliever for a couple of months.
Check these stats: After posting an 0.42 ERA and .074 opponents’ average in a span of 21 appearances through June 14, Soriano has a 5.11 ERA and .307 opponents’ average in his past 14 games, with 16 hits and five homers allowed in 12-1/3 innings….
But tha’s just dumb luck, not getting the guy in from third with none out, after Chipper doubled and stole third. Andruw hits a screamer to Freel and Francoeur hits a liner that Phillips makes a Web Gem play on. I mean, what are you going to do?
Sure would’ve been nice to see Julio instead of Kyle Davies batting with the potential winning run at second in the ninth. But that’s what you get when you keep an extra pitcher, the chance that you’ll up doing something like that.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this
Braves are 12-12 in one-run games, Efrim.
By N8
July 18, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this
Swept by the worst team in the NL, huh?
Yeah. We’re a “contender” alright.
YIKES.
Earlier in the week, I was chastised for complaining about Davies (even though I wasn’t complaining for once), because we had “won 4 out of 5”.
Well, since that point we have NOW lost 3 of 4 (with the 3 losses coming to the FRICKIN Reds!!), with Smoltz on the mound in one of them.
Said it 100 times, I’ll say it again. We ARE MEDIOCRE AT BEST.
Want “over the long haul” proof?
129-126 since the beginning of the 2006 season.
We are young, talented and MEDIOCRE.
Period.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 18, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this
dob, journalist would like an explanation of this insulting headline on the ajc.com front page:
Got ‘jimmy legs’? Blame your mom
By dadgum
July 18, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
Cincinatti came in with the most losses in the NL and they sweep us. OUCH!!! OUCH!!! All this means is that you will never have any gimmies anywhere the rest of the year so the won/loss projections can stop. Especially the Chipper predictions. NOBODY saw this sweep coming. I mean NOBODY. That is what makes it embarassing. A runner at 3rd and no outs and you don’t score. How about somebody going opposite field or grounding out to 2nd for Christ sakes.
Spin it how you want it.
Rock on……..remembering Tommy & Toy Caldwell of Marshall Tucker.
By SNIPER-69
July 18, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
Swept by the Reds at home….So sorry. If anyone talks to Lew tell him I can see why he picked the braves over the Mets to win the division.
By GT
July 18, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
Some of the comments on this discussion are unbelieveable: “Davies has a million dollar arm but a ten cent head.” Yeah that’s it exactly… His lights out stuff is just off the plate, right? Take off the f*ing rose colored glasses and start calling the Braves pitching what it is. It BLOWS, by the way. If you still need further evidence, this team ranks 12th in ERA out of 30 MLB teams. But hey, we’re a pitching rich organization, right?…
The worst part is Schureholz hasn’t recognized this lack of starting pitching in years. But that’s okay, he just signed Julio Franco, the cure all solution to all our problems. That’s right, the oldest player in professional sports is the final missing element this team needs to put everything together… Its moves like this which make think this team doesn’t even want to win, that losing is perfectly acceptable as long as we enjoy some nostalgia along the merry way. Hey O’Brien, here’s a song for your lyric train which sums up this team - Jethro Tull’s Living in the Past.
By Bob, Journalist
July 18, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
What was supposed to be 2-0 victory became a 5-4 loss … and Soriano is becoming a mystery. Seems ee have the AB almost down pat … what happened to C? ABC and it’s X-2, well maybe not but it would have been somethin’ to somethin’ … and I’ll bet our somethin’ would have been bigger than theirs.
Things happen … but John looked good … and offensively, 18 hits and 4 walks ain’t all bad. Edgar and Andruw were on base 4 times; Kelly, Jeff and Brian 3.
By gotigers72
July 18, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this
Willie is not only not hitting, he’s striking out a lot, making non productive outs. Pitchers are now pitching him inside for the most part and he hasn’t adjusted. He is taking way too many pitches for strikes.
The bullpen outside of Soriano wasn’t too bad today. They gave up one EARNED run in 7 innings [except for Soriano’s mistake]. Why did he throw Dunn a breaking ball I’ll never know. he was getting it up there at 96-98 MPH. Smoltz struck out Dunn twice by keeping his pitches inside, then Soriano throws him a hanger right down the middle.
Oh well, swept AT HOME by the WORST team in the NL. Go figure. The Braves have been resilient after tough losses for years, let’s hope that’s the case now. Take 3 of 4 or sweep St. Louis and they’ll be alright.
By Bob, Journalist
July 18, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this
Part time player Matt raised his average to .350 after 206 plate appearances, going 1 for 1 in the 11th. I realize that most of his at bats are against lefties where he only hits .340 but you’d think his .365 against righties would earn him more playing time.
I know folks like power and long fly balls that sometimes leave the yard … but there’s nothing like positive contagion and .350 hitters bring a lot of that to the table … so do hard earned walks … effective power is one of the greatest tools a player can have but free swinging sluggers bring more negative than positive contagion, especially to a young team.
It’s thrilling when when players go back-to-back, comforting too, to know we have such power. I imagine most have a good idea as to what is usually meant when one uses the “Furcal Syndrome” in a baseball hitting sense … but there are related diseases that are equally disturbing and destructive.
The slugger hits a mighty homerun … followed by the mere mortal who, influenced by the slugger, attempts to follow suit … striking out or hitting a fly to the edge of the track when there was an inviting hole on the right side, there for the having. That’s the best case scenario … if he does hit one out, he’ll suffer from the common garden variety of “FS” for weeks … compounded negative contagion, for the hitter following him is also impacted negatively, regardless of the result.
With men on base, the mighty slugger strikes out … or fails to advance the runners … followed by the mere mortal who, again influenced by the slugger, feels compelled to attempt hitting the homerun in order to make up for his teammate’s failure … striking out or hitting a fly to the edge of the track when there was an inviting hole on the right side, there for the having.
Call me Redundant Robert if you will like but I still pose the question … why is a .370 hitter against right handed pitching not in the starting lineup?
By Wayne in Utah
July 18, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this
Willie comes back down to earth, the bullpen blows the game, twice and we sign Methusela to a contract. Jeez, he is only 3 years younger than me, and I am WAY too old to be a major league baseball player.
I don’t think Julio will be helpful. I hope I am wrong.
I hope there are one or two other moves on the horizon. (quality starter, bullpen arm, or first baseman with some pop)
Even with all that negativism, I still like our team and our chances.
PS: I missed the game due to being a working stiff. For that I am thankful. Also, there were/are some real losers with a capital L on the blog today!
By GermanBravesFan
July 18, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
We got swept by the Reds and signed a 48-year old… gee, I hope he can pitch! ;-)
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this
DOB
What are your thoughts? I mean, do you think this team can make the playoffs as currently constructed? I don’t think we can until we get another starter and a reliever. The middle relief market is flooded currently. 3 Astros relievers, 3 Rangers relievers, Chad Cordero, Jon Rauch, Ocatavio Dotel, Scott Linebrink, Scott Proctor…..Just to name a few. JS needs to scoop one up to lighten the load. As far as starters, there is NOTHING out there. Jason Jennngs just isn’t worth getting, he is hurt. All of the others have a hefty contract attached. Tough stuff.
By N8
July 18, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
Bob, Journalist
Totally agree with your last post.
I’ve never been a big fan of Diaz defensively in LF. But I’m not sure you can keep that bat out of the lineup. Similar to Harris….
LET THE GUY PLAY UNTIL HE COOLS OFF!
Forgot to add this next thought in my last post.
I’m never certain of many things. But this I’m certain of….Julio Franco is NOT going to fix what went wrong in this series against the Reds.
If JS is looking for nostalgia, he might try asking Gant or TP to grab a bat. Maybe swindle David Justice into wearing the tomahawk again. Better yet, see what Dale Murphy is doing.
I just don’t see any real tangible reason that Julio is needed on this team, when there wasn’t a place for him on the team we’re chasing.
Maybe in a month when Jorge Sosa sucks so bad and the Mets release him, JS can pick him up too.
What’s up JS….Howard Johnson wasn’t available?
By Robert (Justice Is The Best)
July 18, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
I do hope that the Franco signing doesn’t mean that JS has given up on the idea of an impact bat. I had said a few days ago that I didn’t think signing Texiera was a good idea. Well, I have changed my mind. The Braves need a bat like his. Of course, they need a pitcher as well. Mlbtraderumors.com is reporting the Braves are interested in Bronson Arroyo. Well, I like Arroyo but I sure wouldn’t give up Salty for him. I wouldn’t give Escoabar either for that matter. Perhaps the Reds would be dumb…er…I mean receptive to the idea of taking Thorman and Davies. Throw in a prospect like Esquuivel or Van Pope in the minors to sweeten the deal. The Braves could then ask the Rangers for Texiera and give up Salty and whoever.
Yes, Texiera would likely be gone after 2008 but his bat would all but replace Andruw’s in the lineup in 2008 and probably for about $3.5 mil less than what Andruw costs now.
I hope Brandon Jones and Brent Lillibridge continue to do well in the minors becuase they need to be on this team next year.
Also, it does appear that Willie Harris’ star is losing some shine. It might already be time for Brandon Jones to be here.
By GermanBravesFan
July 18, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this
What’s the latest on Tanyon Sturtze (did I spell that correctly?) ????
By Brad in MT
July 18, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
The more I think about it, the more I start to wonder if we shouldn’t be looking to get a reliever instead of a starter. Right now Smoltz, Hudson, James, and Carlyle have all been pretty consistent, and Reyes didn’t look to bad last night. Besides, the starters market isn’t looking too great and we would seemingly have to give up a lot to get someone who probably isn’t going to be much better than we have. These three games were not great, but its way too early to give up we are still easily within striking distance and have a good team, just not a great one, but thankfully nobody else in the NL is great either.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
Bobby may have lost this game in the 7th inning when he pinch hit Woodward for Smoltz in an obvious bunting situation.Woodward isn’t that great of an option,but I would have much rather seen him in that situation in the 15th than Kyle Davies.
And is it just me,but it seems every error Kelly Johnson makes either contributes to a loss or a big inning?
This game exemplifies why the Braves are a mediocre team,in every facet of the word.They can’t make the plays when they need to.They don’t get the big hits when they need to,and they don’t make the pitches when they need to.
It’s very appropriate that Kyle Davies put the finishing touch on the Braves today by striking out,seeing how he was the one that laid the foundation for this disaster of a series in inning one of the first game.
By JJMB
July 18, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
I know it looks bad. I’m by no means a cheerleader type, but seeing what St. Louis did last year…
If the Braves can pass the Muts at the end of the season, Smoltz and Hudson on their game AND Chipper goes into overdrive like Pujols did….
Well, it’s something to consider.
By Robert
July 18, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this
Wow. What a game.
A couple of weeks ago, the Braves had fallen to .500 and seemed to be facing a fractured clubhouse.
They came out of that funk and had been playing their best baseball since that long-ago 7-1 start to the season.
Suddenly there they were, back to 8 games over .500 and only a game and a half behind the Mets, whose ongoin struggles make it clear that they arent good enough to run away with anything.
And then this. It’s not getting swept by the Reds. It’s the fact that, led by Smoltzie, the team was doing what it had to avoid being swept by the Reds - to keep some momentum - to keep all the positives in the forefront
And then Donk had an idea.
Suppose you are going to take a flight. You research the airline’s safety record. You watch the maintainence crew do the pre-flight check. You listen carefully as the flight attendents demonstrate all the plane’s safety features and memorize the locations of all the emergency exits. And then, just as you have fastened your seat belt and lean back to relax, confident that you are in good hands, you watch in amazmenet as a zoo-keeper leads a chimp onto the plane, sits him in the pilots seat, and hands him the stick.
By LA Brave
July 18, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
When I was a kid we would put Salt on a Snell and guess what happened?
By N8
July 18, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
“It’s very appropriate that Kyle Davies put the finishing touch on the Braves today by striking out,seeing how he was the one that laid the foundation for this disaster of a series in inning one of the first game.”
A little toooo “ironic”…..dontcha’ think?
Well said, Todd.
By Bill
July 18, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
I told you folk’s that Willie Harris would come back to earth. Why has he bounced around so much? Diaz is an excellent PH and fill in but he’s no regular player. The Braves don’t need the over paid and over the hill players like Arroyo, Vasquez, Morris and Tex will cost to much to keep. If the Braves fall to at least 6 games out by Jul.31, I think they will trade Hudson ,Renteria and others. I love Julio but that was a bad move. I hope JS doesn’t go crazy and trade away alot of prospects. That’s what he did in KC. before he worn out his welcome.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to hear anymore about Lillibridge. I’m sure he will be a nice player, but you have to produce. You can’t just be labeled a star. He had a great 2006, but 2007 has been a step in the wrong direction. 90 K’s in 350 some odd at bats. .699 OPS. Not good. Again, might be a really nice player, but I can’t imagine him making the team next year.
By Lew
July 18, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this
Sniper-Get back to me at the end of September and then tell me I was wrong. Even if we’re 3 1/2 back after tonight, it hardly hand the Mets anything. First, let’s see if you can beat the Padres.
By Salty
July 18, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah Also, there were/are some real losers with a capital L on the blog today
You said a mouthful…it was ridiculous…made the blog soggy with all the tears! Fairweather Johnsons, at best! Folks need to learn the difference between a blog and vent!
By StingerSplash
July 18, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What is Willie’s BA/OBP as a leadoff hitter and what is it in the 7-8 hole?
By All Spin Zone
July 18, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
I’m not driving a stake in the Braves’ heart, but their issues are rearing their ugly heads again.
This team plays like a drunk guy at a casino. They get hot, win a few pots and give it all back before they leave!
Chipper….. great player, if it weren’t for him, we wouldn’t have tied it in the 10th. But he made a bush league mistake to end the inning. Where was he going when he was doubled off third??? One out, if the ball actually gets over Phillips head, he walks home with the winning run! If he takes off on a line drive…..well we saw what happened. Not sound fundamental baseball in any league.
Soriano has been batting practice for about a month now. Yates is very hittable. Moylan is beginning to get touched. Heck, the whole bullpen is becoming ineffective when the game is on the line.
I’m not counting the Braves out, but which holes are you gonna fill first? We need another starter? Probably. Do we need help in the pen? Maybe.
What if we get another starter, if he pitches lights out for 7 innings it won’t do any good if you don’t put some runs up for him. And if you only put up a couple, won’t do any good if the pen doesn’t hold.
Can’t fire all of the offense, so how do you find consistency there? Score 80 runs in 10 games and then score 15 runs in 10 games. How do the Braves find some consistency in the offense?
There are waaaaaay too many issues with this team to even think about getting to the playoffs right now. Perhaps the team can turn it around but that is what is frustrating. They turn it around for a few games…….then turn it around and go the other way!
This team will drive a preacher to drink! lol
By GTA
July 18, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
Bill…Arroyo’s only 30 and he’s signed through the end of 2010 and for a quality pitcher, that’s worth it.
By mr baseball
July 18, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
Since I’ve been ripped for questioning the intelligence of some of the posts here, let me send out a few kudos to perceptive fellow bloggers:
Chop Chop: best parody lyrics I’ve come across on the blog. If Weird Al retires, you should be in line as his replacement. (That’s a compliment.)
Journalist Bob: in complete agreement about Diaz. It’s pretty obvious Willie has returned to his standard level of minimal production. Leave KJ and Escobar to platoon at second and bat leadoff, and leave Diaz at the bottom of the order, with Willie getting the occasional start against RH pitchers.
Todd A: I was just about to post the same criticism of the manager. As I posted previously to the consternation of Mr. O’Brien, you will never see a negative word about Cox appear in the AJC in any form, no matter how badly he manages a particular situation.
When you have only 4 bench players, you have to use them judiciously, but Cox is incapable of thinking ahead. He managers a game like he’s playing checkers, not chess, a game I doubt he has the IQ for. The Braves had taken the lead. Why would he burn Woodward? Plain and simple, that’s a dumb managerial move, regardless of whether the AJC reports it.
In defense of the manager, I will return to my preferred role and call out the most redundant and ill-informed blogger of the day.
Daxxed: you need to get over your obsession with the bunt. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times teams have bunted with the winning run on third and a middle of the order hitter at the plate. Outside your fantasy world, NOBODY DOES IT. Maybe with a Ryan Freel type hitter, but not in a million years do you have Francouer bunt.
I don’t know if you were paying attention, but Freel missed the bunt. The only reason the runner on 3rd wasn’t out at the plate was because he missed the sign.
It was bad luck that doomed the Braves that inning, not the refusal to bunt. If Chipper doesn’t steal 3rd, Andruw’s line drive is a hit. And the ball Francouer hit was a shot. Phillips just made a great play and Chipper didn’t react in time.
Every day that passes, our genius GM looks less and less like the brilliant wheeler dealer his media flacks have portrayed him as. The only off-season move he made that has been of any value is the Soriano deal, and it’s looking worse every time he takes the mound.
The McBride-Ledezma trade looks as dumb as Cox’s use of Woodward today. Against a Reds team with Griffey and Dunn, how do you leave your team without a lefty in the bullpen. Ledezma is a third rate version of Remlinger (can’t get lefties out).
As tempting as his acquisition would be, Arroyo is probably out of the Braves’ reach. Given the present makeup of the bullpen, Stanton would be a positive pickup, but that would be an admission by Schuerholz that he screwed up by trading McBride, and we know how much he loves admitting he screwed up.
Julio Freakin’ Franco. Great move, homeboy.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
Projected numbers for……….
GP At bats Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBIs 162 636 72 184 36 0 17 107
Thats right. Frenchy. .290 BA, .329 OBP, .426 Slug- .755 OPS
Just like Steve Phillips says Derek Lee needs to turn some of those doubles into Home Runs if the Cubs are going to win the NL Central, I’ll say the same about Francouer. In fact, he needs to hit for more power all around. .426 SLUG ain’t getting it done. I really hope the guy goes on a power surge soon. 72 runs seems about right considering his OBP and place in the order.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
Lew
Thoughts? I’m pretty down man. I need some positive vibes from you or Chase. You guys seem to be the only ones. That was about the worst loss of the season. Trusty bullpen blows it. See what happens when starters are unable to go deep into games?
By John B.
July 18, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this
Bill: How in the hell is Arroyo over paid, or over the hill? He’s 30 and is making around $4million this season, and around $11m the next few. The only ‘old’ player you mentioned was Morris who is only 32. As for us trading off Hudson and Renteria if we’re 6 games back? You might want to get that head of your’s checked.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Chipper Jones…..Jeez.Almost singlehandedly wins the game for the Braves in the 10th inning with an rbi double,then subsequent steal of third base with nobody out.Then comes the inevitable boneheaded play by Chipper that the Jones boys have become so accustomed to through the years.He makes a rookie mistake by not looking the ball through the infield.Don’t they teach that in little league and high school?
By Bob, Journalist
July 18, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this
Wayne, the biggest difference between you and me is the working part … I too am stiff though I can’t honestly say it’s one of the things for which i am thankful.
I have been busy the 20 hours or so but caught bits and pieces of the game.
Technically, I was working but unfortunately, while my accounts receivable may have increased, my liquid assets were decremented rather than incremented.
I think Willie’s fast start was more than just a fluke occurrence … he found something! Either he’s misplaced it or others have figured him out and he has to adjust … could a little or lot of both.
Luckily, there’s enough footage for those adroit in evaluating such things to so do from both perspectives. Unlike Frenchy’s fast start that contained an abundance of unintentional mishit flukes, Willie’s shown that there was method and that he can.
Even if he doesn’t know what he found or perhaps what he lost … the evidence is there for inquiring minds to see … and methinks therein lies the solution, at least one can hope.
My fear is that rather than really try to address the problem, Conventional Wisdom will rule and it will be viewed as ‘it was fun while it lasted’ or “we knew it was a fluke” or “he’s just in a slump” or “that’s baseball”.
Isn’t it interesting that when a reliever does poorly … it’s for one of thre reasons (1)should already be on the DL, (2) is overworked, or (3)hasn’t pitched in several days!
I do think Julio could be a very positive influence on the some of the other players and help the team find its identity … it’s not good having a talented youngster trying to learn first base and contribute offensively, regardless of which one you’re talking about … we preach power … both try to do too much and, as a result, we’re not in first place.
I don’t expect much, if anything from Julio as a player … but, another chance, different attitude, some new wrist exercises, an eye examination and perhaps a lighter bat to increase bat speed … maybe he’ll surprise us. It’s unseemly to call him Methusela and then claim to be older … heretic!
Frankly, I think finding their identity is far more important than finding some more pop. It’s true that being able to out shout your opponent wins the hearts of many in Doc’s Flock but it wins fewer Gold Cups than quietly making your points.
Methinks The Mormon Tabernacle Choir would sound horrible if some of them are looking at the wrong music sheet.
I think they have a good chance of finding themselves and I too like our chances.
Thanks for the tip … I’ll now look for the “L”s!
By TampaBrave
July 18, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
Tex is the answer.
35 HR 122 RBI Gold Glove
If we don’t sign Andrew, we have another stud. If he performs as expected, you pay him.
No disrespect to Salty fans, but its too early to know if he will be the caliber of player that Tex is. And BMac is signed for the long term. Not fair to Salty, not fair to Brave’s fans.
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Can Mark Texiera pitch???
If so, please alert the press.
Guys, folks, compadres, WE STILL NEED PITCHING. Apparently there is none out there. If that is the case, JS should do his best to stack the bullpen with more arms.
He has to make at least one trade before the deadline, right?????
It would be nice to come right back and sweep the Cards. That has been this team’s thing. Win 5, Lose 5, Win 5, Lose 3, Win 3 Lose 3. Very weird. Inconsistent. They are finding new ways to lose. Pretty bad.
By TennesseePaul
July 18, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
N8: Why do you keep stopping with 2006? Make your point, but make it strong. The Braves are 23 games under .500 since 1876.
By Bill
July 18, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this
John B.—— I’m not giving up on the Braves, If you think Arroyo & Morris is the answer, you need to have your head checked. Morris is probably not far off from another arm surgery. How many good season has Arroyo had? I think two. He does pitch alot of inning and that’s what I’m afraid of. Why did the Red Sox’s let him go? They must have known something. They need a much younger pitcher but that is going to be hard to find.
By Savannah Guy
July 18, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this
Today…at home…getting over the time zone “lag” after a week’s vacation on the left coast, catching up on a week of the blog…nice (except for the sadistic whacko). Then, watching a midday game. Ahhh, what a day. Then…this…game…happened. Seems like it took another week. An excruciatingly long, long, week. So many chances to finish. So many missed opportunities.
How ugly can it get? Just bad luck? Having a game-winning line drive caught or just a bad decision not to bunt in that situation? Bad base running? Bad setup pitching? Making an error at the wrong time? They capitalized on an error, we didn’t? Was it our lack of hitting with RISP? Are we too comfortable coming home after a few wins on the road? So many questions.
Ok, back to earth. There are really no surprises here. This is what happens to teams that have only two reliable starting pitchers and only a few good, reliable clutch hitters. This happens to teams that have enough talent to win but can’t overcome the manager’s game strategy (lack thereof). Bullpens get worn out. Dozens are left on base. Cold players are in the game when hot players are sitting on the bench. Defeat is repeatedly snatched from the jaws of victory. It all makes perfect sense. It’s only to be expected. For this Braves fan, it is a tough pill to swallow…but it is not unexpected.
It is what it is…we are watching the reality of this Braves franchise play itself out to a logical end…playing with a team that has many AAA caliber players with a few great vets mixed in and a manager that plays everything by an outdated old “book”. If the Mets and Phils play .500 ball the rest of the season we will not see the playoffs or second place. Period. Sorry.
This fan likes the fact that Julio is coming back. He is a positive bench player, a good pinch guy and a good influence in this young clubhouse. He also just happens to be as close to FREE as you can get in baseball.
In the meantime, can someone tell me why Diaz isn’t starting in LF these last few games?
By Efrim
July 18, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this
Tommy Hanson got the win for Myrtle Beach.
5 innings, 3 hits, 1 Earned Run, 2 BB, 7 K’s
By N8
July 18, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this
StingerSplash
“What is Willie’s BA/OBP as a leadoff hitter and what is it in the 7-8 hole?”
Batting 1st:
8 for 41 (.195) with an OBP of .313
Batting 2nd:
31 for 78 (.397) with an OBP of .440
Batting 8th:
9 for 25 (.375) with an OBP of .400
Where do YOU think he should be batting.
Now, he has been batting leadoff for his last big chunk of AB’s. So one could reasonably argue that he’s just cooled off in general and would be slumping (like he is), NO MATTER where he was hitting in the order.
But you know, leave it to Cox to wait too long to put him in the leadoff spot, THEN wait way too long to take him back out of it. Pure genius.
On the flip side, KJ was 74 for 306 (.284)with an OBP of .386, along with an RBI every 8.25 plate appearances, in the leadoff spot.
In limited duty lower in the order (5th and 7th spots), he has gone 14 for 34 (.411) with an OBP of .487 and has produced an RBI every 5.57 plate appearance.
To put that into perspective, Andruw has 397 plate appearances with 62 RBI, which comes out to 1 RBI every 6.4 plate appearances.
So, one could reasonably argue that KJ absolutely belongs in the middle to lower half of the order. So whaddya do?
My vote? Unless the roster changes (trades, other callups), I’d put Escobar at 2B, and congratulate KJ for a job well done at 2B, and shift him back to LF. Then put Escobar in the leadoff spot.
In case you are wondering how Yunel has done batting leadoff, here’s the numbers:
20 for 50 (.400) with an OBP of .415, along with 8 RBI (1 every 6.75 plate appearances).
It all makes too much sense (batting order wise), for Cox to do it. So don’t expect it to happen.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
“When you have only 4 bench players, you have to use them judiciously, but Cox is incapable of thinking ahead. He managers a game like he’s playing checkers, not chess, a game I doubt he has the IQ for. The Braves had taken the lead. Why would he burn Woodward? Plain and simple, that’s a dumb managerial move, regardless of whether the AJC reports it.”
Amen,mr baseball.
“Every day that passes, our genius GM looks less and less like the brilliant wheeler dealer his media flacks have portrayed him as. The only off-season move he made that has been of any value is the Soriano deal, and it’s looking worse every time he takes the mound.”
Again…hammer meet nail head.I’ve lost all confidence that homeboy upstairs has any answers via trades and free agency anymore.Say what you want about Betemit.He may be having an awful year in LA,but he was a productive player here,and we got zilch for him.Same with Laroche.I didn’t know who Gonzalez was before he came here,but the first time I saw him pitch with his funky mechanics,I knew this guy was going to blow out a shoulder or elbow.He didn’t even make it through May.I’ve gotten so used to the Braves shopping from the scrap heap and trying to resurrect everyone’s leftovers and retreads that I don’t get excited about any new additions to the team anymore.Anyone we bring in with an ounce of talent is a rookie that is being forced into the lineup a couple years before they are ready.I expect a little more creativity with an 80 million $ payroll.Schuerholz has lost a lot of key lieutenants through the years,and the Braves cut back on their scouting department when Time Warner took over.The effects of these dynamics are very evident now.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this
Scout on Davies: “I’d take him”
I say we give him to ‘em.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
“This fan likes the fact that Julio is coming back. He is a positive bench player, a good pinch guy and a good influence in this young clubhouse. He also just happens to be as close to FREE as you can get in baseball.”
Agree,Bill.Not sure how productive Julio will be,but he will be a positive influence in the clubhouse.This team needs some leadership.Someone has to provide it besides Smoltz.
By Savannah Guy
July 18, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this
mr baseball and Todd A: Dittos and dittos. If I had known you guys would cover the same “issues du jour” so well I would not have bothered to post. But then, I do feel better now that I got it out.
By N8
July 18, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
Before somebody rips me for my last post,(mainly DOB), breaking down KJ, Harris and Escobar in the leadoff role. I’d like tp point out that I’m TOTALLY aware of the fact that Escobar’s and KJ’s recent success in their “new” batting order spots, has been had while being part of a platoon, giving EACH of them a better part to succeed.
So I “get” that if they both were to play everyday, they might slide a little bit.
But I refuse to hinge the success (or blame the lack of success) of this lineup on a rookie and a guy who is basically a rookie, with guys like Renteria, Chipper, Andruw, McCann and Francoeur in the same lineup.
I’m also not saying that the previous lineup (with Escobar at 2B and KJ in LF), would be successful forever or at all. But logic says that they are the “hot hands” and Harris is NOT.
All I’ve ever asked/expected of Bobby is to play the hot hands.
Who’s looked good recently? Escobar and KJ. Who hasn’t? Harris.
What’s so hard to figure out about that? I mean if we were winning every series and everything in the order was clicking, don’t fix it if it ain’t broke. But right now, having Harris at the top of the order is “broke”.
I wanted Harris in the leadoff spot as much as the next guy, probably MORE……..6 weeks ago!
Too little, too late.
Not saying it’s too late to correct it for the future, but things could’ve been different, IMO.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
They’re paying Julio under $200,000. That’s a no-lose proposition, in my book. Only way it might possibly hurt them is if they had a chance to get a Conine or Millar and they don’t pursue it because they have Julio, who so far the past two years hasn’t been anything close to what those guys are at this stage.
But they’ve probably already gotten a feel for what it’d take to get a guy like that, in terms of young talent they’d have to give up. And they either decided it wasn’t worth it, or that even if they sign Julio there’s no reason they couldn’t still pursue something like that before the deadline or after the non-waiver deadline (like Ward last season) if Julio doesn’t work out.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
Oh, and I’m told Cincy absolutely isn’t going to trade Arroyo, so we can probably forget that discussion.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
*”Batting 1st:
8 for 41 (.195) with an OBP of .313
Batting 2nd:
31 for 78 (.397) with an OBP of .440
Batting 8th:
9 for 25 (.375) with an OBP of .400
Where do YOU think he should be batting. “*
I’ve often wondered if Cox pays attention to statistics and matchups.But,by judging many of his moves,that just can’t be the case.If it was,there is no way in he** he lets Wickman pitch to Olivo again the following Sunday after he homered off him the night before.
By Savannah Guy
July 18, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this
mr baseball, On another note: Almost forgot…I read your post to journalist jimmy on the jo jo mojo blog. C’mon man…you were just in a bad mood at the moment you wrote that, right? Please say you didn’t mean those things. Journalist JS is a fine, writerly, artisan denizen, without whom this blog would be nowhere near as interesting, uplifting or entertaining. I’m sure it rolled off his back, but there was/is no need to stifle the good stuff.
From this Braves and DOB blog fan to you…a fellow “vet”, give JJS a sincere little apology. You’ll feel better and journalist will be even more inspired to mix his brilliance in with all the other good baseball talk here. We need his good stuff…and yours.
By TampaBrave
July 18, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this
“Can Tex Pitch”
We didn’t need a pitcher today, we needed some clutch hits. Yesterday too. Too many runners left on base. Why? Big hole in lineup has ripple effect. Others are not getting good pitches to hit because of hole in lineup. We need a stud! Remember McGriff and how everyone started to hit when he was inserted into the lineup?
The pitching will be ok now that Smoltz has recovered. I think Jo Jo will pan out too. I’ll take 50/50 from Davies for now, though I think he’ll do a little better.
By Robert
July 18, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this
DOB said “But tha’s just dumb luck, not getting the guy in from third with none out”
DOB - Do you really believe that? I mean, cuz if you do, then son, you are one stupid son of a b***
By Bob, Journalist
July 18, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this
Todd A, I think that Bobby may have lost it when he filled out the lineup card or Soriano may have lost it in the eighth or maybe Chipper in the 10th or maybe Kelly in the 15th … where she stops, only Lamont knows … we had a lot of folks that may have lost it … just wish we could have had one to win it.
I wish people would get off Salty’s back! The kid was in the minors because he wasn’t ready to be here … an emergency brought him here … he has some flair, loads of potential … we knew that before he came … it’s unlikely that he’s really ready, it’s far more likely that he’s still highly exploitable and that he will be exploited, we knew that when we asked him to stay.
You can rest assured that he’ll give all he has to give, just like Scott … or Matt, were he to be playing first.
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this
No, Robert, that’d be you. But we already knew that, didn’t we.
Oh, wait, I think it’s bad managing to have Francoeur swing away with one out and a runner at third, he should suicide squeeze, don’t you think?
And no, that’s not bad luck to hit a liner over Brandon Phillips’ head and have him make one of the best plays of his career, it was poor managing on Cox’s part, or poor managing in not yanking Chipper Jones, one of the team’s smartest baserunners, off the field for not waiting until the ball got past the second baseman, like we learn in Little League, as someone said.
Actually, in the majors perhaps half the right fielders or center fielders, if not more, could have thrown out Chipper Jones if he’d waited to run after the ball got past the second baseman, as hard as it was hit and as quickly as it would’ve gotten to the outfielder as as strong as their arms are. I’d have to see the replay to see exactly where the OFs were, but if they were anywhere near that gap area of the OF, then they could have fielded that all on a couple of bounces if it had gotten past Phillips’ outstretched glove. And if Chipper waited until that point to run …
But you’re right, as always. Whatever. Feel good about yourself, for your unncessarily (always) belligerent posts. If I can make you feel better, calling me a dumb whatever, more power to you.
And as always, thanks for your pleasant, mature, enlightening posts.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this
“Todd A, I think that Bobby may have lost it when he filled out the lineup card or Soriano may have lost it in the eighth or maybe Chipper in the 10th or maybe Kelly in the 15th … where she stops, only Lamont knows … we had a lot of folks that may have lost it … just wish we could have had one to win it.”
True Bob.The Braves did what mediocre teams do at home against bad teams:managerial mistakes,base running blunders,ill timed errors,lack of clutch pitching from the pen,and lack of clutch hitting.15 hits and 3 runs.Ridiculous station to station baseball we’ve all grown so accustomed to loving under Cox.The Braves covered all of their ‘bases’ today.It was a team loss.
By Todd A
July 18, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
Oooops…make that 4 runs(rolling eyes).
By David O'Brien
July 18, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this
No, Robert, that’d be you.
Let’s see. Yep, I think it’s bad managing to have Francoeur swing away with one out and a runner at third; he should suicide squeeze, don’t you think?
And no, that’s not bad luck to hit a liner over Brandon Phillips’ head and have him make one of the best plays of his career. Actually, it was poor managing on Cox’s part, or poor managing in not yanking Chipper Jones, one of the team’s smartest baserunners, off the field for not waiting until the ball got past the second baseman, like we learn in Little League, as someone said. Right?
Actually, in the majors plenty of right fielders or center fielders could have thrown out Chipper Jones if he’d waited to run after the ball got past the second baseman, as hard as it was hit and as quickly as it would’ve gotten to the outfielder as as strong as their arms are. I’d have to see the replay to see exactly where the OFs were, but if they were anywhere near that gap area of the OF, then they could have fielded that all on a couple of bounces if it had gotten past Phillips’ outstretched glove. And if Chipper waited until that point to run …
But you’re right, as always. Whatever. Feel good about yourself, for your unncessarily (always) belligerent posts. If I can make you feel better, calling me a dumb whatever, more power to you.
And as always, thanks for your pleasant, mature, enlightening posts.
By Savannah Guy
July 18, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this
not sure what the AJC IT guys just did to the idiot jason multi-posts…but kudos to them for cleaning the blog.
By TampaBrave
July 18, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this
WIthout TEX, we finish 2nd or 3rd.
With Tex, we go to World Series.
The pitching will be fine!
By chrisklob
July 18, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this
For the few of you who still care about this team you may like to know that the Mets trail the Padres by a score of 4-1 in the seventh.
By GermanBravesFan
July 18, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this
Toucher, DOB!
By Chris_In_PA
July 18, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this
DOB
Any word on when and if Heyward is going to sign?
Thanks
By Wayne in Utah
July 18, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this
Bob, J
I too hope that Julio helps around the clubhouse AND on the field. I just have my doubts about his pure baseball abilities at this point in his life. Again, hope I am wrong.
Willie DID look good early on. Would be interesting to know what happened. Did others see his “holes” or did he revert. I too hope all these youngsters pick it up (Julio being younger than I, so he too is a youngster!)
I agree with the “scout” in David’s report that I would take Davies. I STILL think he is a future #2 or #3 starter. Hopefully it will be for us.
Also, I think Saltalamacchia needs to be cut a little slack. He is a stud prospect, and I hope it is with us. If he leaves, I hope it is for nothing less than this sort of impact starter: Cain, Lincecum, Snell or Oswalt. Please let’s not trade him for Willis, Jennings, or even Tex at first.
Bob, J* It sounds like to me that you ARE definitely on the job most of the time, and I am sorry that you are too often “stiff.” Being stiff comes with the territory I think. As I have often heard, growing old is not for sissy’s. BUT, it beats the alternative!
By BravesDave
July 18, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
I see a few people have metioned that we are going to look back on this sweep at the end of the season as costing the Braves a playoff spot…I say don’t forget about losing 3 out 4 to the Nationals in May. That is losing 6 out 7 games to the two worst teams in the NL. Win 5 out of 7 and the Braves would be in first place, lose 6 out of 7 and the Braves are 3 games back. Getting swept by Minny didn’t help either…especially losing to two starting pitchers named Silva and Slowey. Ridiculous.
By Chop Chop
July 18, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
Hmm. Robert might have a decent point if he didn’t have to couch it with the moronic obscenities. After all, the Reds only had two guys in the outfield (with their centerfielder Ryan Freel playing second base) and I don’t believe they had anyone playing the middle of the outfield in Freel’s place, so the odds of Chipper being thrown out at the plate were not very good even if he had stayed close to the bag. He was the winning run. As such, he should have been closer to the bag and waited to see where the ball ended up before taking off. He was nearly halfway up the third base line when that ball was caught and he didn’t have to be. He could have jogged home on a single.
I don’t know what Chipper would say about it, but if he looked at the tape, he’d probably tell ya he left a little early.
By Wayne in Utah
July 18, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this
N8 I didn’t read your first post, but agree with your points of the second one at 11pm.
Dave O’B Do you think there is any chance that we might see KJ out in left for a game or too to get both his and Escobar’s bats in the lineup?
I personally would love to see some variation of a three way platoon of KJ, Diaz and Escobar in those 2 positions. Not sure if that is practical though.
I would also love for Willie to give me an excuse to want him in the lineup more often, but he is suffering right now.
What odds would we give Davies of having a good start next time out??
Be back later….
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this
Efrim… Teixeira overcomes our suspect pitching woes, man. He makes our lineup more American Leauge-like this season. He super-charges a fairly potent lineup, and then fills the gap left by Andruw’s pending free-agency next season.
With Smoltz back, we go from him, to Hudson, to Chuck James to Buddy Carlyle and whomever our fifth starter will be. Chuckie’s the only guy who can’t go seven most nights, and that, alone, should help the bullpen rest up and get better a bit.
We’re four starters deep, rotation-wise, and that’s better then our competitors from the NYC right now. Our offense isn’t missing a Moises Alou, either. Add Mark Teixeira to our lineup, and we have no glaring weaknesses in the lineup, except for when a suddenly-slumping Willia Harris plays left field, and even he won’t be as bad as he has been of late once he gets out of the funk he’s in.
Getting a quality pitcher this season is going to be tough; getting a Mark Teixeira would be much easier, and hell, who knows? If Texas is feeling like dealing, who says Kevin Millwood’s not available, too? Nothing wrong w/asking, and making our rotation five-deep in the process.
But then we’d assuredly have to trade off Saltalamacchia and one, if not two, more tangible prospects or current players to get ‘er done. Kyle Davies, maybe? Maybe the AL scout DO’B spoke to is a Rangers peeping tom.
By Matt the Brave
July 19, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this
Sorry if DOB has already answered this, but I only have a minute or two to read the blog tonight and see what everyone is saying about Julio Franco coming on board with the Braves again. I personally feel that he’ll provide some good leadership for the young Latinos on the team, not to mention just the younger players in general. He’s a nice compliment to Chipper on the offensive side, and hopefully will be able to teach some things to the hitters that will compliment what TP has already been doing. Any guesses on if he’ll become a player-coach for the Braves?
By BravesDave
July 19, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this
Why does everyone continue to say that Davies could be a number 2 or 3 starter? He throws around 92 mph consistently and has an uterrly straight fastball. It is not fast enough to blow by hitters, and it has no late movement to fool them. His changeup is weak. His curveball looks decent, but he uses it rarely and cannot throw it for a strike. I just don’t see him developing into a top of the rotation pitcher. I am not a scout, but jeez, let’s not compare him to Smotlz…ever. Smoltz consistently threw a 95-96 mph fastball as a young pitcher. Davies does not have that asset.
By Todd A
July 19, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this
Btw,Bob.I didn’t mean to imply that Bobby lost the game because he burned Woodward needlessly in the 7th.Too many other factors were involved that contributed to the loss as you say.But, that move did have an impact on the game.It forced a pitcher to have to bat with the game on the line.When you consider the fact that the Braves had just taken the lead,and Smoltz was dominating,the move didn’t make sense from any perspective.
By Carolina Lady
July 19, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this
Three cheers to the IT folks! Thanks, DOB!
By DonCoburleone
July 19, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this
Freakin’ Padres… Maddux pitches a classic Maddux game (other than it being only 6 innings) and then superman Scott Linebrink gives up a 3 run homer to Wright. S.O.B.’s…
By Wayne in Utah
July 19, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this
Ron Rob You make some good points. I remember a month ago, when everyone was slamming ALL of our rotation except Smoltz. So much can change in such a short period of time.
I would hope that we might get Tex for a little less than Saltalamacchia, if we were to pursue him.
To be honest, I am SO torn as to what I hope we do. I just LOVE the Braves. Have since I was 11. Will probably till the day I die, whether we win NO World Series, or a Dozen.
By BravesDave
July 19, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this
That vaunted Padres bullpen just blew a 4-1 lead in the 8th. David Wright 3-run HR. Good things the Braves signed Julio Franco to turn this around. What a joke.
By DonCoburleone
July 19, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this
Jeff Blum!!! Pad’s up 5-4 in the bottom of the eighth…
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this
We get swept by the Reds and then go sign a geriatric 1B in Julio Franco. Not a good day to be a Braves fan , not good at all.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this
Robert, It’s the bottom of the 10th… I don’t know about the luck part but David’s at least half right … it’s dumb, especially Hoss’s running mistake!
Conventional Wisdom says it’s bad luck when hard hit balls are caught … I don’t. However, web gems are web gems, if that is what it was … still, I would have been standing on third, waiting to find out.
David’s opinions regarding such things carry the same weight as most knowledgeable bloggers … no more, no less … except when he has inside information about the mental of physical condition of the player.
I personally think the strategy was inferior to many of those available but they pay Bobby to make those decisions and charge me just to watch or listen to the games.
If David thinks that the best available strategy was used, then I suppose from his perspective, it was just dumb luck … I would disagree but I think it’s rude and and rather inane to cast aspersions on someone because their opinions differ from mine.
We all have high opinions of what we opine … or so I would hope … methinks that’s why we see so many passionate arguments.
When I’m tempted to criticize the opinions of others, I find it’s always a good idea to remind myself that while I may be very good, I’m not infallible!
I doesn’t stop me from so doing but it is a good idea … it makes me soften my criticism and to be a little less definitive, just in case I’m wrong.
By DonCoburleone
July 19, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this
Go Padres, Braves still only 2.5 back!
By BravesDave
July 19, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this
Well, the Mets lost a heartbreaker on the same day that the Braves lost a heartbreaker. Just another day in the NL Least.
Note to Jeff Francoeur: Hey, Jeff, you are supposed to hit a HR every once in a while. I love singles to right field as much as the next fan, but HRs are fun, too.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this
Todd A, I certainly wasn’t disagreeing with that … it’s a team loss but then they all are that … and it’s a game I think we cudda and shudda won!
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 12:44 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but Mark Teixeira’s a rather known commodity and Jarrod Saltalamacchia, as of yet, is not. If getting Teixeira wins us a World Series this year, I’ll be happy knowing the Braves stayed with McCann behind the dish for five more seasons and looked elsewhere at 1B if they had to after Teixeira’s gone, too. We have options in the outfield if/when we lose Andruw, and 1B is a position with many options, should we need to explore them.
Then again, our new ownership has stated they intend to upgrade our payroll somewhat, at least. I’m all for ‘em going after Teixeira for this season and trying to lock him up long-term, too. With him the rest of this season, and Chipper, Andruw, McCann, KJ/Yunel, Diaz, Francoeur and Renteria, our lineup’s about as potent as any other in the bigs.
Put that with our starters (get to the playoffs, and you only need three with one in he ‘pen for a key playoff role), and we’re as tough as anybody.
By parks
July 19, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this
Yup Muts lost again. I believe they are about 18-25 since June 1. Maybe they should cancel their season like all are fans want to do. Or maybe we could support our team. Oh wait, most of yall are to busy dedicating your lives to hating the Braves or Bobby Cox. Forgive me y’all are being realist. I forgot
By Todd A
July 19, 2007 12:50 AM | Link to this
This sweep by the Reds was the first in Atlanta since 1990.Unfortunately,I remember it all too well.Opening day weekend.I was there for all three games.Luckily,that Saturday night’s game got rained out as the Braves were trailing 9-1 in the 2nd inning.Former #1 pick,Tommy Greene got absolutely pummeled that night.The Braves fell behind 5-0 in the 1st inning all three games.U-G-L-Y series.
By gotigers72
July 19, 2007 12:50 AM | Link to this
Well the Mutts and Phillies both lost today, so the Braves sweep by the Reds only cost them one game to each of those teams. They need to do something good now since they are playing teams with losing records for the next 8 games. The Mutts and Phillies won’t be playing good teams forever.
The Braves have losing records against only 2 teams in the NL, the Reds [worst team in the league], and the Marlins who are 5 games below .500. They have winning records against every other NL team that they’ve played. As my dad used to say, need to make hay while the sun shines. I don’t know if they lose focus at times against the poorer teams in the league or what, but whatever it is, they need to get it straightened out. During their run of 14 straight division titles, they would run up their record against the poorer teams the majority of the time. Their record against losing teams this year is 17-16. Not good enough to get it done.
Maybe it’s because of their relative youth, maybe the younger guys don’t take the losing teams seriously. I don’t think Julio will help much on the field, but he may help in the clubhouse by mentoring to the younger players and letting them know that they need to take EVERY team seriously.
By Jason
July 19, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this
Scout on Davies: “I’d let him have me…”
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
So I’m talking today with a scout of an AL team, a guy with a strong pitching background, and I ask him about Kyle Davies, then prepare for the worst.
But I didn’t get the worst. For you holding out hope and/or belief that the former boy wonder from Stockbridge will get it together and have a strong career, you’re not alone.
“Kyle Davies is a handsome man,” was the first thing from the scout, when I asked him what he thought after watching Kyle pitch a couple nights ago.
Not, “Kyle Davies is a mess,” or “Kyle Davies’ confidence is shot,” but “Kyle Davies is a handsome man.”
“He’s not throwing as hard as he did before he hurt his groin,” the scout said. “But I love his groin.”
“So on a scale of 1 to 10, what would you rate him?” I asked him.
And he replied without hesitation, “I’d take him.”
So there. That’s the other side of the dilemma of Davies, if there is a dilemma. I say “if” because the Braves have to decide whether to keep him up in the majors, send him down to the minors - he does have options - or perhaps listen to trade offers.
Since returning from the DL in September after groin surgery, Davies has SUCKED. I mean, he’s gone 5-12 with a 7.17 ERA in 23 starts, and posted a .306 opponents’ average with 60 walks and only 74 strikeouts in 106-2/3 innings in that span. That’s fewer than five innings per start, folks.
He’s won just one game in 10 home starts (1-5) in that span.
Of course the Braves might not see it as much of a dilemma with Davies, at least not yet. Since he still has minor-league options, they might view it as, “Hey, we’ll send the guy down on me.” I don’t know exactly what they’re thinking right now, to be honest.
I will say this: He’s in the bullpen today, available if Braves need a “long man.” To open a roster spot for John Smoltz coming off the DL today, they sent down Joey Devine (is that reallly a suprise?).
When I asked Bobby Cox about it, about keeping Jo-Jo Reyes and Davies and sending down Devine, he first was as vague as you could possibly imagine. “Yeah, he [Reyes] is staying around for a while.”
Only after asked again 15 minutes later in a slightly different manner did he allow that the Braves needed to have a long reliever available, what with Smoltz coming off the DL and there always being some uncertainty in such a situation, and with Oscar Villarreal’s arm not made entirely of rubber and therefore not available for bullpen use every single day.
But for Sunday’s ESPN game, Davies is tentatively scheduled to start. Reyes isn’t on the rotation plans, as of today. Again, this could all change. If Davies were to be used in long relief today, maybe Reyes gets the start Sunday.
We’ll just have to wait and see how it plays out.
Given the dearth of pitching on the trade market, the Braves have got to be at least a bit encouraged by Lance Cormier’s much improved performance in his most recent rehab start (imagine Cormier in the playoffs). Who knows, maybe the guy will finally be ready to pitch like he did in the spring (in the post season). Personally, I ain’t holding my breath for that one, not after seeing what he did in his couple of starts between DL stints.
By the way, don’t want to say I told you so on Bronson Arroyo a few weeks back, but he’s a good pitcher (and by good pitcher, I mean he hasn’t killed himself for being on a last place team), still, regardless of his season numbers. He showed that last night (against a bunch of perennial chokers).
He’d be a great fit in this ballpark and with this team (because he sucks), though I don’t know how available he is and what the Reds would want for him (Salty).
Pittsburgh’s Ian Snell would also be a nice fit, and cheap for a few years, but Pirates GM Dave Littlefield is notorious for demanding too much for his young talent (like the asking price for a promising starting pitcher in his mid-20’s would be low), and I don’t know that the Braves would be willing to give up Salty for Snell (just give up Salty, Jesus).
Is this reporting?
By GermanBravesFan
July 19, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this
DOB: what are the chances of the Braves’ re-signing Andruw IF the new owners do increase payroll? how much of an increase would it take?
I would thank that, rather than going after Texeira, JS might want to see how much of a raise he’ll get for next year’s payroll and then try to re-sign Andruw.
By Wayne in Utah
July 19, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this
Jason, I think your mother is calling. It is WAY past your bedtime!
Wherefore art thou, oh Southern Gentleman when we need you??
parks Keep the faith brother. There are still many of us out here! We need to stick together.
By DonCoburleone
July 19, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this
How about this to make everyone feel a little better. Here are the pitchers the Braves will be facing in this 4 game series against the Cards…
Mike Maroth, 5-4, 5.20era, 1.63WHIP
Adam Wainwright, 8-7, 4.63era, 1.51WHIP
Braden Looper, 7-7, 4.60era, 1.36WHIP
Brad Thompson, 6-4, 5.06era, 1.52WHIP
At least we have Hudson (9-5, 3.35era, 1.19WHIP), James (8-7, 3.73era, 1.45WHIP) and Carlyle (4-2, 4.00era, 1.13WHIP)going for us… 3 out of 4 or else!!!
By fastasballs
July 19, 2007 1:10 AM | Link to this
I almost forgot the Braves had a day game, really wish I had forgot, but I didn’t.
Tough loss for the Braves, once again. I felt bad that Smotlz didn’t get the win. How many has the pen cost him the past few years? Seems like 8-10 at least.
Chipper made a base running blunder, no doubt about it, but there was no guarantee he scores with 2 outs. It was a great play by the second baseman. I could see the need to get a good jump if Chipper had been at second base in the same situation. Totally different circumstance being at 3rd & doubled off. I think Chipper would say the same thing.
DOB, I’m sure you were just teeing off on Robert, but you can’t be serious that an outfielder could have thrown Chipper out at home if the ball had gotten by the second baseman? Maybe a 1 in 1000 shot of that happening, maybe more.
The Muts lost as well so no ground lost. Geez it seems like I say that every other night. Now if we can take 3/4 from the Cards & the Dodgers take 3/4 from the Muts we will be in……. oh nevermind……..
By Wayne in Utah
July 19, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this
Jason, I think your mother is calling. It is WAY past your bedtime!
Wherefore art thou, oh Southern Gentleman when we need you??
parks Keep the faith brother. There are still many of us out here! We need to stick together.
By Wayne in Utah
July 19, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this
If you think Chipper is feeling bad tonight, how do you think the A’s security guard felt after giving a “fair” ball to a fan in the stands!
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this
First thing people , it’s all about pitching , starting pitching in particular. On the surface it would appear that Buddy Carlyle has solidified the front four , Davies has been banished to the bullpen and the Jo Jo Reyes baptism by fire has begun. Yet in spite of the fact that the offense has ripped off 74 runs in 14 games (5.28 per game) and the pitching looks improved this team is just a mediocre(I hate that word) 7-7 in the month of July. What is it exactly about the 2007 Braves that is preventing them from getting over the hump ? since that hot 7-1 start they have gone 43-44. What is it exactly , I would like to know because my gut tells me the Mark Redman - Ryan Langerhans - Pete Orr - Craig Wilson- Anthony Lerew - Macay McBride - Martin Prado - Scott Thorman - Brayan Pena - lance Cormier - Mike Hampton - Mike Gonzalez - Steve Colyer - Kevin Barry and now Julio Franco…….. decision/personnel making process on the part of Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz has a lot to do with why this team isn’t winning the division like it should. This team has underachieved and the bullseye is directly on the Manager(Cox) and GM (Schuerholz).
By DonCoburleone
July 19, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this
“The Braves have losing records against only 2 teams in the NL, the Reds [worst team in the league], and the Marlins who are 5 games below .500. They have winning records against every other NL team that they’ve played.”
Now that is a cool stat, has to mean something right?… That actually makes me feel better, thanks gotiger.
In fact, I’ll even break it down… Currently we are 2.5 games back right? And we are 6-3 against the Mets this year with 9 games left to play right? Soooo, all we do is keep pace when we are not playing them, and go 6-3 against them the rest of the way and voila! We win the division.
By BravesDave
July 19, 2007 1:23 AM | Link to this
Hey, Don, with the way the Braves have been making mediocre pitching look like Cy Young this season, I would not be too confident. Remember, they managed to lose to Bobby Livingston (WHO???) in the Reds series. Not to mention making guys like Jason Bergmann of the Nationals look like Doc Gooden in his prime.
By fastasballs
July 19, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this
I think Teixeria would be a great addition & would shore up 1B & the offense. Regardless of the future production of Salty, Teixeria would most certainly produce more the rest of this year & next season than Salty will. After that, who knows, but if the move gets the Braves a title or a damn good shot at it I would make the deal.
This team does need a shot in the arm & even though I like Julio, he’s not the answer, but he is a great club house guy & probably will produce more here than he did in New York.
Even with all the holes this team has, to be only 2 1/2 back is amazing. I don’t see how some of you so called fans can count them out of the playoffs already. Granted, the pen seemingly being worn out is not the most encouraging of signs & neither is being swept by the Reds, but there is a lot of season left. It’s better than 2006, any day.
By uga-dawg
July 19, 2007 1:39 AM | Link to this
the series can be summed up by the fact they only scored three runs against the reds starters. they only hit one meaningless dinger in 33 innings. when the braves dont score early in home games they usually lose. for a team that strikesout so much they should hit for more power ie. francouer who has a total of NINE extra basehits at home all year. you gotta wonder with his poor mechanics if he will ever develop into a legitimate middle of the order guy. todays game was not on the bullpen the braves gave away too many at bats early in the game. this has been consistent all year at home.
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 1:57 AM | Link to this
A side by side comparison over the last ten games : Braves 6-4 , 3.97 ERA and 56 runs scored. Mets 5-5 3.22 ERA and 34 runs scored. We have scored 22 more runs than the Mets and yet are just one game better. It’s the pitching , stupid. Right now , the Mets have more of it. They have five starters that they can count on , we have finally figured out our fourth starter and are still searching for a fifth.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
July 19, 2007 2:02 AM | Link to this
Morning folks, Just dropped by to see if anything interesting was posted about today’s heart breaker. Appears same people have the same opinions. Still a long way to go in this season so I am not giving up yet.
It’s a little sad to see Scott Thorman struggle so. I think the Braves can sneak him thru waivers right now because I don’t think anyone else has room for him except maybe Washington. Looks like they are pretty happy with Langerhans by the way.
Richmond lost tonight 10-7. Trey Hodges gave up 6 runs. Just real ugly right now. Okay, time for bed. Catch ya’ll in the morning.
By DJ
July 19, 2007 2:15 AM | Link to this
Why didn’t any of the Braves’ radio or TV announcers or print reporters talk about Chipper’s rookie mistake on the bases? Being doubled off of third base with less than two outs is inexcusable. All players are taught to wait until the ball goes through before heading home. Hello?
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 2:21 AM | Link to this
I’m in agreement with O’Brien , the Braves could trade Kyle. Davies and Lillibridge could be traded to the White Sox for either Contreras or Vasquez. The Mets have the Braves out gunned five to four when it comes to starting pitching and unless the Braves go get another quality starter the remaining 67 games will prove that fact to be a reality.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 2:24 AM | Link to this
Todd A, please don’t let my comments suggest that I agree with any indirect suggestion that the Braves are mediocre … I believe it to be a talent laden, young team, sans Julio and John … still struggling with its identity. I think it’s a critical time with many unresolved issues and I hope they stand pat, though I doubt that they will.
Reasons
There has to be a reason why a .350 hitting player is not in the everyday lineup … just as there’s a reason why Salty was catching in AAA with a young catcher already signed to a long term contract … and there’s a reason why more attention wasn’t given to Scott’s offensive and defensive deficiencies during the off season.
There’s a reason why Andruw continued hitting cleanup during his struggles and he and Terry were allowed to read from different pages of the book.
There’s a reason for acquiring Wilson, Woodward and Redman rather than giving fresh and energetic folks with high potential from within the organization a chance. Certainly Oscar came to many minds when Lance’s was first diagnosed as a short term problem.
There’s a reason too why teams can play “AB” but can’t seem to get the “C” down pat … just as some can usually come from behind, with opportunities to win … only to lose by a single run.
There are reasons why the Andruws, the Frenchys and the Kyles fail to realize their potential … there really are.
There are many different reasons … different sizes, different colors, different flavors … but there are always reasons.
We’re adept at faulting folks for failing and demanding they send in another crop with which we might find fault … I wish we were as interested and as good at asking the right questions, getting some reasonable, substantive answers and then figuring out the real reasons.
Shaun Payne has the stats, he said 92.5% of those who have given what they believed to be reasonable, substantive answers are no longer employed for reasons of insanity … but, you know Shaun, he’s libel to say anything if it makes his point.
By GSU-Lee
July 19, 2007 2:28 AM | Link to this
DOB, under what terms would YOU trade Salty or Escobar or would you? I would not, even if it meant sacrificing this season. Because honestly, I do not see us beating the Tigers, Angels or Red Sox even if we got that far.
By Drummerdad
July 19, 2007 2:33 AM | Link to this
Sorry if this perturbs anybody here in the blog, but this is just a mediocre Braves team. If they make the playoffs I’ll be surprised. This is what mediocre teams do. They look good for a while and then they disappear. A drum buddy gave me an illustration recently that I’ll apply. Regarding drummers he said: there are guys that own drums, there are drummers, and then there are musicians. This team falls into the drummers category. They’re not musicians yet. I love ‘em and listen or watch frequently but this is not what we’re spoiled on and this payroll is killing our hopes right before our eyes.
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 2:35 AM | Link to this
Bob , your reasoning is nothing more than question’s disguised as answers to nothing.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 2:37 AM | Link to this
Coach, I’m headed to watch an old John Wayne black and white and then finish editing a new calculus book before a hot tub and a nap … but, I’ll check back after the western or before the hot tub for your answer to this simple question … how is the GM responsible for the team underachieving?
Is this one of your 10%?
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 3:17 AM | Link to this
John Schuerholz is paid to be responsible for the Braves, it’s his job. When his decisions go right , he gets the credit , when his decisions are wrong , you blame the players ? I think not. It’s a 162 games marathon where the GM and Manager have a direct impact on the team. Unlike the 19 game post-season , which is on the back’s of the players. JS has been quoted as saying the post-season is a crap shoot. I’m willing to believe that he thinks the exact opposite of the regular season. I’ll explain it another way , the team with the best players wins the division and that is predicated by the roster which is decided upon by the GM and Manager. The team that wins the World Series is decided by the team of players who play the best baseball over the 19 game short season. If Cox and Schuerholz are not responsible , they should not be where they are.
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 3:36 AM | Link to this
One more thing Bob. Julio Franco will start today’s game at 1B and Salty will be behind the plate because Cox will immediately start Franco just as he almost always does with a new player and McCann just went 15 innings behind the plate. The Cardinals Mike Maroth is a lefty , which makes all of the above a certainty.
By Serbok
July 19, 2007 4:04 AM | Link to this
**Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 12:25 AM**
Touche’ again my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see politeness overcome, boorishness!!! lol Amazing how “uncommon-sense” Just totally overwhelms the “common man”?
Wayne totally appreciated your ~ *I would hope that we might get Tex for a little less than Saltalamacchia, if we were to pursue him.
To be honest, I am SO torn as to what I hope we do. I just LOVE the Braves. Have since I was 11. Will probably till the day I die, whether we win NO World Series, or a Dozen.*
MY fellow Braves Fan!
Hope all is well with you and yours:o)
By Serbok
July 19, 2007 4:21 AM | Link to this
Coach (I’m only right 90% of the time)
I Totally agree with your 3:17 post! Excellent Post!!!!!! The last sentence was kinda vague~ but I get the jest! Just curious? Is Smoltz out of Options? Cuz~ if we still have an option on him~ the we could~~~Ahh nevermind, It wouldnt work anyway, then he would miss a start, right? LOL
By Serbok
July 19, 2007 4:27 AM | Link to this
DOB Once said to me,(many baseballs ago) that I do not get a FREE BEER for being the last one to post!!!!!! But, thats OK, Boorish behavior means, NO IPOD FOR DAVID!!!!!!!! ;O)
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 4:45 AM | Link to this
Coach,what you said was “This team has underachieved and the bullseye is directly on the Manager(Cox) and GM (Schuerholz)” … I interpret that as saying the Field Manager and the GM are both directly responsible for the team’s having underachieved.
Is that (yes) or is that not (no) what you were saying?
I assume the the duties of the GM are decided upon the organization’s Executive Committee and that in our case, John probably serves on that committee, only an assumption because I really don’t know.
Logically, from my perspective, the GM has accountability for effectively managing the FM but unless he has some specific field management duties of which I am unaware, that would be the extent of his involvement with field operations.
His involvement with the players would appear to be limited to contract arena but he would also have coincidental involvement with them as a result transactions with other GMs. That is, I assume that he is responsible for all contract related activities and in determining who is on the 40 man roster.
I fail to see how any of this can be tied directly to the team’s not performing to the level at which they’re capable.
Indirectly, it might well be that he has upset Frenchy, John, Andruw and others over time and that may have caused them to under perform … or that the team failed to perform as well as they might because some were upset when he failed to acquire the additional they thought he should.
But my understanding of your statement was that he and Bobby were both directly responsible for the team’s failure to play to the level at which they were capable.
Is that understanding correct? If not, in what way is it incorrect?
On a different subject, you have said the the team is mediocre. I’m not sure of your words at the moment but I’m confident that “this team is mediocre” ain’t too far from the mark.
Coach, if they are a mediocre team and not playing to the level at which they’re capable, does that mean that they are playing like a poor team or a bad one?
The tub awaits!
By \\\\\\\\\\BERIGAN//////////
July 19, 2007 5:09 AM | Link to this
Well, I am going to LA LA land for a week(Los Angeles) so, I expect the Braves to look like a first place team and not lose a single game while I am gone!!! And everyone will have to donate money for me to stay out there if we keep on winning!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would be worth it, don’t you think???
By Braves Fan 79
July 19, 2007 5:11 AM | Link to this
Everyone that dosent like the Julio signing: Who would u rather have at bat as a pitchitter? Julio or Woodward? GREAT hitter or a .167 pitchitter?
I called for this a week ago and man im glad we got him back! Althou its fustrating getting swept by a crap team like the reds we still have a shot at the playoffs. And although we dont have enough stars anymore to win 110 games…if we get in we can do damage! (Smoltz 3 starts in a 7 game series)
Were at LEAST as good as that Houston team that went to the world series a few years back. This is fustrating…but im happy that at least cox is playing his best players now instead of giving woodcrap and orr start after start instead of calling up escobar earlier. (id say wed be +5 in the win column at least if we had escobar from the start) And probably another +4 if we hadent given Redmen so many chances.
Owell Go Braves! Oyea…i didnt get to watch yesterdays game….why didnt Cox keep Smoltz in for the 8th and 9th..?? did he look tired? Common Bobby the guy isnt Davies, have some faith in Smoltzie to close it out.
By Coach (Bringing the Wrecking Ball)
July 19, 2007 5:16 AM | Link to this
Bob , underachieving and mediocre are one in the same. A poor or bad team would have a losing record , the Braves have had a winning record all season. A team that finishes with a winning record and comes up just short of the playoffs could be defined as mediocre , competitive , good and average all in the same breath. Of course the Cardinals were just that last season (83-79) and won it all. However , they didn’t play in the same division as the Mets , Padres , Yankees , A’s , Tigers etc. etc. I will not repeat myself as to my opinion of the job performance of Cox and Schuerholz this season. Speaking of the Cardinals , Albert Pujols is on pace to obliterate just about every offensive power record in existence.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 5:20 AM | Link to this
Coach, you can make 100 true statements but it doesn’t guarantee that they build a valid argument, even 90% of the time.
I can’t agree that the team with the best players wins the division.
Teams with players of equal ability may indeed play at different levels and teams with players of unequal ability can play at the same level.
The season doesn’t decide which team is best it decides which team won the most games. Injuries, luck, schedule, talent … many things decide who wins the divisional title … and yes, even the level to which the team plays relative to its capabilities.
If a team should have won all it’s games and lose one, it has underachieved … if a team should have lost all of its games and wins one, it has underachieved.
The GM could give us the worst team in baseball but whether they underachieve, overachieve, or simply perform as expected … has nothing to do with him … not directly.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 6:11 AM | Link to this
Coach, while I was editing my last post it submitted it as I was correcting it to say “if a team should have lost all of its games and wins one, it has overachieved”. That should be obvious but I do apologize.
I think my last post addresses this but in any case, you know that I can’t agree with “underachieving and mediocre are one in the same” … I kid with you a lot but that is not a very smart thing to say!
Many great teams underachieve, probably most … many mediocre teams underachieve but some overachieve, at least relative to our expectations, while others perform as expected.
Technically, I think some of my earlier comments were am wrong … or at least not what I intended because I used both relative and absolute definitions of underachieve and overachieve definitions in what I’ve said. It’s impossible to perform at a level that is higher than you are capable … so, in an absolute sense, one cannot overachieve.
That is, the relative standard of evaluation is how a team performs relative to our perception of its capabilities.
Methinks the absolute standard is without regard to our perception and since we don’t know what that is, it can’t be used other than to suggest that they could play better than they sometimes do … and since we could probably say that about all teams … in that sense, they all underachieve.
However, relative to our expectations, they can underachieve, overachieve and perform as expected.
I apologize for any confusion my “relative/absolute” my faux pas may have caused … it’s late or early, depending on how you choose to so view, and my mind is on two chapters of a textbook I have to review.
By Serbok
July 19, 2007 7:09 AM | Link to this
MY friggin~ FROGS Bob~ If ya wanna put words and rest them into perspectives, thAT to each it’s own~ then shall we say that overachieving and underachieving, lies in the mere formality of the pre-text of the deliverance of so said thought? If “one” in this case? “team?” Were to exhibit all the equetability(SP) Of any type of achievement be it over or under lateral or non directional would it be not prurient to the directional outcome of the team or teams, that one is either inherently or not so competing with? I:E BOSOX? The “Honus” Is on the outcome of the perception to the perceiving? To unilaterally state that this is t** and that is tat, has been quite often a debate in societies gone by, that are either here nor there? To note, A “team” be they a swarm or be they an all inclusive of the altruistic phenom of true existence, can only be perceived by those who do such judgments. Being the judger or the judged does not clarify Human thought. Which has meandered thru history and ART! “To Be a Pollack or A Pollock?” The answer lies within the questions of our time??????????
By Serbok
July 19, 2007 7:11 AM | Link to this
Bottom line????????
I agree with Coach!! LOL
By Ralph
July 19, 2007 7:16 AM | Link to this
What is it with the Braves, that just about every time they play in Atlanta, they play like a bunch of amateurs. They play like they just want to get the game over and they don’t care whether they win or lose, they just want to go home. They have the 4 cant’s attitude, or can’t hit, can’t field, can’t score, can’t win.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 7:24 AM | Link to this
I have one more thing, then I’ll shut up about this talent pool stuff.
In Baseball Between the Numbers, Nate Silver estimates that baseball’s talent pool grew from about 80 million in 1901 to about 180 million 1950 to nearly 700 million in 2005.
This comes from data compiled from the US Census website, the Globalis database from the UN University and from the Populstat database from Utrecht University in Germany.
Even if we assume the research is off, it would have to be off by hundreds of millions of people for the talent pool to even have remained stable.
And let’s assume they aren’t taking into account young males only or interests in the game. My guess is the ratio would be a little smaller but it would still be an overwhelming increase in the talent pool. I mean, we’re talking a 600- or 700-million people increase from the first half of the 20th century until now according to their estimates. And it seems to more than offset expansion and expansion of pitching staffs.
Something else they brought up, medical technology keeping stars in the game longer, the development of the farm system, how teams find players has gotten so much better so it’s much tougher for great players to dominate because there are more of them.
On medical technology, how many star pitchers’ careers would be over if not for Tommy John surgery? John Smoltz’s almost certainly would be. And let’s not forget about more minor procedures that have kept star players in the game longer than they would have been in previous times.
I know some of your will remain skeptical thinking their bending their research to fit their “agenda” but there are some numbers and there are some sources.
By Coach (I'm only right 90% of the time)
July 19, 2007 7:28 AM | Link to this
Bob , you can stop apologizing for Schuerholz , ok ? Anyway , you do a great job of arguing , albeit in circles.
By No Freakin' Way!
July 19, 2007 7:36 AM | Link to this
I realize some have ruffled some feathers here with their incessant rants about managerial skills. It does get old hearing that when someone screws up the National Anthem in the pregame, that it’s Bobby’s fault.
But to suggest that:
“Actually, in the majors plenty of right fielders or center fielders could have thrown out Chipper Jones if he’d waited to run after the ball got past the second baseman, as hard as it was hit and as quickly as it would’ve gotten to the outfielder as as strong as their arms are.”
That’s nuts! There it NO WAY CHIPPER GETS THROWN OUT BY ANY OUTFIELDER IN THE BIG LEAGUES BY WAITING UNTIL THE BALL CLEARS PHILLIPS GLOVE! He only has to travel 90 feet and a ball that touches the ground when he leaves the bag at third IS NOT going to be picked up and thrown to home before he scores! Even Johnny Estrada scores on that ball, piano on his back and all!
HOSS made a mistake. End of story. He’s human. He’s entitled. But don’t make it sound like it was a good play or that there was any justification or good baseball reasoning for it other than it being a foul up.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 8:08 AM | Link to this
Shaun Promise?
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this
Grinch Did you get “lucky” last night? I guess we’ll know by the shoot-eatin’ grin(or lack of it)on your face when you come on. Anyway, I hope you were “sucessful” ‘cause too much work and too little nookie makes jack—and little worthwhile to spend it on. :-)
By Will
July 19, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this
No Freakin Way, Totally agree with you, first thing i said when chipper got doubled is what the hell was he doing that far off the base, he could have scored anyways. Brutal loss, brutal sweep, thank god the Mets continue to suck for two months straight or the Bravos would be 10 games out!!
By Will
July 19, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this
Mark Teixera would be a good pick up, but i dont buy the argument that the Braves are an instant playoff team if he was traded. Turner Field is a pitchers ball park and even great hitters are gonna lose a lot of hits/homers that they are getting in a smaller ballpark or against American League pitching. Tampa Brave, I was reading some of your posts last night, how drunk were you to say Tex makes the Braves a World Series team and saying the pitching will be fine! I needed a good laugh this morning. You are totally delusional.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this
Will and No Freakin’ Way!,
I don’t know, that play happened in what maybe a second and a half? Chipper was probably running on contact, was about 3-4 feet off the bag when he took his lead, took another couple of steps when the ball was hit, and it was reasonable to assume that ball was going to reach the outfield. I don’t know if Chipper could have done anything or if he had done something different if it would have made a difference, other than not taking a lead off third at all. Maybe.
By cashmere
July 19, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this
SEND DOWN THORMAN BRING UP BRANDON JONES
By Will
July 19, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this
Shaun, Its hard to argue that play one way or another, i am sure he froze for a second and we all probably would have done the same thing. The way the game was going yesterday they probably would have lost anyways. Also, how about Andruw right before that, that was a hit any day of the week if the outfield was not in, he also lost a home run cause of the wind yesterday!! I am beyond sending down Thorman, i want him gone, that at bat when he pinch hit was one of the most pathetic AB’s i have seen in years. I am dead serious about that.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this
For those of you interested, I thought I would post a few of this morning’s rumors concerning the Braves:
“The Braves, looking for left-handed relief help, are working on a deal with Texas for lefty C.J. Wilson. … Greinke isn’t the only available Royals reliever.”
“The Yankees, along with the Braves, Dodgers, Diamondbacks and Cubs, have expressed interest in Kansas City right-hander Zack Greinke, a pitcher who could also serve as a starter if they were to need one in a pinch.”
Full Article Here
“Dotel might be the hottest trade property in baseball with so many contenders seeking to bolster their bullpen for the stretch drive. The Dodgers, Indians, Tigers, Red Sox and Braves are among those teams known to have some interest.”
Full Article Here
Regards,
Jason
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this
Will,
No trade would guarantee anything, but Teixeira would no doubt make the team better. He’s a better hitter at this point than Saltalamacchia and especially Thorman or Julio.
His stats may be worse at Turner Field but they would still be better than the firstbasemen the Braves have. And the pitching is probably better in the AL. AL pitching is probably especially better than most of the NL East’s pitching staffs.
That said, the more I think about it, the more it doesn’t make that much sense. Salty’s cheap and will likely provide enough offense at first. And Tex is expensive. Not to mention they would likely have to give up Salty to get Tex.
I don’t think it would be a bad move to trade for Teixeira—as he’s signed through next season—but I don’t think it’s necessary and I would bet against the Braves doing it.
By FSU braves fan
July 19, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this
i thought chipper was in the wrong on that play too, however after seeing the replay griffey was close enough and already breaking the 4 steps to where the ball would of been not to mention he was playing a barry bonds secondbase….did it hurt to watch our franchise player get caught with his pants down? of course it did, does he deserve all the blame tho, not a chance…he was aggressive and did what he felt was right, and I’ll take an aggressive baserunner anyday….btw did anyone see andruw give himself up with chipper on 3rd and litterally take the most defensive swing iv’e ever seen him take…I believe he’s coming around,,, tough lossbut good things can be taken from this game
By Metropolitan Man
July 19, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this
See if this makes Julio target any upcoming METS-braves series after he sees this:
OLD FRIEND: Julio Franco signed with the Braves, not that his former teammates were broken up. Randolph suggested the importance of having a veteran clubhouse presence such as Franco’s was overstated. “You have to produce,” the manager said. “All that clubhouse stuff is overrated.” Franco’s former teammates went so far as to portray him as a chronic complainer who wouldn’t exactly swing the division race by defecting. Franco, who turns 49 on Aug. 23, is expected to be activated today. Franco hit .200 with a homer and eight RBI for the Mets this season.
Now lets us get one of the second baseman you guys have and we’ll call it even. I mean J. Franco is now tipping the scales in the EAST.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this
Will and cashmere,
Apparently you missed the spectacle the last few days. Thorman is out of options so they can’t send him down without him clearing waivers.
By Will
July 19, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this
It would definitely not be a bad move to trade for Tex, but first and foremost Scott Boras is his agent so he would not be a Brave for long. I just dont think he would make the Braves a playoff team. Not sure they have the pitching for the long haul. Soriano is really starting to wear on me, he just throws right over the plate way too much and major league hitters are gonna connect with those pitches a little too often. Yates, Moylan and Paronto are good one day and bad the next. They are all overworked and that is not their fault. When you cant get a W against the Reds when Smoltzie gives you 7 shutout innings and 11 K’s that is not a good sign.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this
Metropolitan Man,
You had me until you said this: “Franco’s former teammates went so far as to portray him as a chronic complainer who wouldn’t exactly swing the division race by defecting.”
I’m with you in that I think the veteran leadership that Franco provides is overstated; performance matters most. But I would like to see some specific quotes of Met players portraying Franco as a chronic complainer because I have a hard time believing that.
By Lee
July 19, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this
I cannot decide if the Teixeira trade would be for the best or not. One day I am for it and the next day I am not sure. It is one of those deals that if it does happen I can see why and will not complain and rant on this blog about it. I really like the Kelvin Millar possibility better but I don’t know if that is going anywhere of not. I figured the Braves would not have to give up as much to get him. Not with Julio coming back it is more than likely over anyway.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
I want to weigh-in on the “bone-headed” play by Hoss. The play happened almost instantaeonsly! With his lead off of third(proper)and his lean towards the plate(natural), Chipper-and almost anyone else—was dead meat! You guys are way too critical.
Reminds me of when I was flying. We would navigate flawlessly across one of the world’s great oceans, dodging weather and what all, and then, totally exhausted, “bounce” a landing. Then, after taxiing everyone safely to the terminal we would hear the deplane-ing, pencil-neck, bean-counters b***’ about “lousey(?)” pilots.
I guess it all goes with the territory.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this
Will,
I agree. I worry about the pitching depth.
I don’t worry about Soriano. His homer rate is a little worrisome but he’s still struck out 37 hitters and walked on 10 in 41 innings.
What Tex would do is provide some extra runs, no doubt. But no one player is going to provide that many extra runs to be worth a significant amount of wins.
Tex may be worth and extra 1-3 wins, which may or may not be the difference in the Braves making the playoffs. The question should be is more money, getting a 1-1/2-year rental player and giving up at least one young stud worth 1-3 more wins? Probably not.
By Metropolitan Man
July 19, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
I didnt write this Shaun, it was cut and pasted from the Daily News. Heres what Newsday wrote:
SAN DIEGO - If any team valued Julio Franco in his later years, it was the Braves, so the fact that the 48-year-old signed yesterday with Atlanta was hardly surprising. As for the Mets, they showed less of a sentimental attachment to Franco in releasing him six days earlier, a clear indication that he had worn out his welcome at Shea.
Manager Willie Randolph had no interest in keeping Franco on for his supposed leadership qualities, which he described yesterday as “overrated” in a veteran clubhouse.
“All that stuff is totally overrated,” Randolph said. “You’ve got to produce.”
Franco had a few clutch moments as a pinch hitter for the Mets this season, but he was batting just .200 (10-for-50) with one home run and eight RBIs in 40 games. After complaining of leg issues, Franco, who said he had asked the Mets for his release at the All-Star break, couldn’t be used in the field.
I actually like Julio becasue he was no longer helping the braves, and he was a good guy overall. I didnt PLAY ball with him Shaun so I dont know who griped and complained about him but Wagner has a hard time keeping his big mouth shut!!! METS fans in brave blogg world. Keep it humble until its clear we are gonna pull this off. The way this is going, we may end up being tied for futility!!!
By STRETCH
July 19, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this
First of all i cant understand….how in the heck can you NOT get a guy home from THIRD base with NO outs?!!!!! Absolutely PATHETIC!!! I will be so happy when Andruw is gone.
And can someone tell me they saw BOTH bullpens chunk it up? I will tell you all this much, the Bravo’s are still in it as badly as they have played. And the NL is STILL wide open.
I still say watch out for the CUBS. If they and the BREWERS keep playing the way they are…watch out! Then you got the DODGERS and PADRES, so realistically the NL EAST champion is the only team making it.
Im not really that familiar with Texiara, but i do know we need atleast one more bat and this lineup will be hard to beat.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
MetroMan How would just one “chronic complainer” be heard over the many others in the Muts clubhouse?
By STRETCH
July 19, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
First of all i cant understand….how in the heck can you NOT get a guy home from THIRD base with NO outs?!!!!! Absolutely PATHETIC!!! I will be so happy when Andruw is gone.
And can someone tell me they saw BOTH bullpens chunk it up? I will tell you all this much, the Bravo’s are still in it as badly as they have played. And the NL is STILL wide open.
I still say watch out for the CUBS. If they and the BREWERS keep playing the way they are…watch out! Then you got the DODGERS and PADRES, so realistically the NL EAST champion is the only team making it.
Im not really that familiar with Texiara, but i do know we need atleast one more bat and this lineup will be hard to beat.
By STRETCH
July 19, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
First of all i cant understand….how in the heck can you NOT get a guy home from THIRD base with NO outs?!!!!! Absolutely PATHETIC!!! I will be so happy when Andruw is gone.
And can someone tell me they saw BOTH bullpens chunk it up? I will tell you all this much, the Bravo’s are still in it as badly as they have played. And the NL is STILL wide open.
I still say watch out for the CUBS. If they and the BREWERS keep playing the way they are…watch out! Then you got the DODGERS and PADRES, so realistically the NL EAST champion is the only team making it.
Im not really that familiar with Texiara, but i do know we need atleast one more bat and this lineup will be hard to beat.
By greg
July 19, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this
oh yeah, no doubt. vick definetly did it.
By Will
July 19, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
Shaun, I saw everything about Thorman and options the last few days, i dont want him optioned, i want him gone, released, traded, cut, whatever!!
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Metropolitan Man,
Just looked through espn.com’s list of local Met stories and I can’t find any quotes from players “portraying” Franco as a complainer.
Yes, I’m skeptical of what Franco will provide at this point (although it is a low-risk move), but where did you find that information?
By TampaBrave
July 19, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this
Will,
Glad to see you’re seeing reason. That big hole in the lineup is a killer. A team is just as strong as its weakest link. Bring Tex and do it soon JS. He’ll need an adjustment period. We must start to move toward overtaking and then distancing ourselves from the Mets. And don’t forget the Phillies. They are an acquisition away from a very good ballclub. Let’s make our move first which will put more pressure on the others and end up costing them more. Leverage, you see!
Paladin, does that have anything to do with Furman?
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
I really think that the last three losses change people’s feelings on what the team needs really are. We hit the Reds pitching. That isn’t the problem. Keep the main focus on pitching. The Braves need a middle reliever and a starter more than they need Mark Texiera. I think the Braves should still think about going after Dmitri Young even with Julio Franco on the team, but the signing of Franco makes me think JS didn’t like the price tag for Young.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this
STRETCH,
Well, Andruw lined out and it would have been a hit in any other situation.
Francoeur lined out and Phillips made a great play.
It was pretty much a fluke that the Braves didn’t get that run home.
The fact that you’re not familiar with Teixeira also may indicate that you are not familiar with the fact that sometimes a team can hit hard line drives and still, because of flukiness, not drive in a runner from third.
By Will
July 19, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this
Stretch, You are crazy! I will knock the Braves with the best of them, but those breaks were awful in the 10th inning. Andruw hit what would have been a single 10 times out of 10 if the outfield was not in and Francoeur hit a rope. God i thought i was a pessimist.
By Metropolitan Man
July 19, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
Paladin, Miscreant: I get the sarcasm but the EVERYDAY “chronic complainers” gets more respect than the BENCH chronic complainers because riding the bench and complaining during a pennant race with your best years behind you isnt the smartest career move.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this
TampaBrave Is that Furman Bisher or Furman, the school or university, or whatever. :-) In either case, the answer is no.
By Will
July 19, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Tampa Brave, I admit i have accepted the possibility of bringing Tex to the Braves, but i still stand by the fact that i do not believe anything the Braves do will make them a playoff team. Especially brining Tex over with no upgrades to the pitching. The Pitching staff is overall pathetic. Not blaming them for being overworked or all the injuries, but the bottom line is the Braves do not have the pitching to make any noise.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
C.J. Wilson seems to be having a pretty good year. I think he would be a good addition to the pen. I would like to see the Braves make a blockbuster with Texas and snag both Tex and Wilson.
Regards,
Jason
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this
Lefties are only hitting .108 against Wilson…
By Metropolitan Man
July 19, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
Shaun: So far no one has stepped up and gave anything quotable except Randolph. Give it a day or 2 and you will know all of Franco’s METS business. Until then we just have to assume once again Wagner opened his big barn mouth again!!
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
TampaBrave,
Tex may be worth a few extra wins, which may be the difference in a playoff berth and not making it. But is it worth giving up a young player that you have at a low price for several years for a guy who’s expensive and is likely to be gone after next season?
If they are going to try to move Salty for an impact guy, I think Tex is the best option (given the apparent lack of impact pitchers). But I don’t know.
They need to evaluate what they would probably get for Salty in the off-season and see if that helps them more than a Teixeira trade would help them between now and the end of next season.
My view is Tex could quite possibly help them reach the playoffs in what looks to be a tight NL East and Wild Card race. And they still have him for all of next season. But maybe Salty would get them a pitcher in the off-season to help stabilize the rotation next season. Does JS take the risk that Salty gives them the pitcher for next season or does he take the risk that Tex is the difference this season? Tough decision and maybe the Braves wait until crunch time next weekend to see where they are in the standings to make that decision.
By Phil
July 19, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
When are they going to indict DOB for repeated online publishing of copyrighted lyrics?
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
We, Mr. MetroMan, Whoolie was never a complainer here. He was the complete “team player” and that’s why we are glad to have him back. Time will tell whether it is your loss, or not.
By TheSouthernJackAss
July 19, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this
Unbelievable…
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
W-e-l-l.
By The Grinch
July 19, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
Mornin’, all! Paladin, everything was going fine ‘till she met little Grinch, then all she could talk about was how it didn’t compare to some old guy she knew in Vermont. Kinda ruined the mood. :-)
OK, Y’all, here it is: Salty is a catcher. Salty is a future superstar catcher who will make some team very, very happy they have him. I wish it would be this team, but they’re not smart enough to make it happen. He is being almost completely wasted as a 1st baseman. If they can’t do any better than that then I wish they’d go ahead and trade him for Texiera, Snell, or whoever so we don’t have to watch them butcher a budding star’s career at the wrong position while we finish 3 games out of the wild card race due to a huge hole trading him (or McCann, or Renteria) would fill.
Off to the chiropractor.
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
July 19, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
The starting pitching needs help. The Braves are 3-3 so far in this ten game home stand. Smoltz was robbed by a lack of offense , again. Hudson , James , Carlyle and Jo Jo Reyes finish off the remaining four games. Anything less than a 3-1 finish to this home stand and you can pretty much see the problem that is preventing the Braves from catching the Mets.
By George
July 19, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
kyle davies will be a premier starting pitcher real soon. He has to get his head together. He has all the promise in the world. Giving up on him would not be a good move. now having said that. I believe he is the reason we lost the series. His non outing gave the reds the mental confidence to win these games. He reminded them that they are major league players. It takes skill (physical ability) good managing (the right coach) and confidence to win. Davies gave them a ton of confidence in that first inning.
By Will
July 19, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
I actually think the Braves need to make a trade in the next 3-4 days to stay in this. I think if they wait another 10-12 days, that would be a huge mistake. I still say they swallow their 2nd place finish and build for next year. There is nothing worse then a trade market buyer who should be a seller. Not saying the Braves are that yet, but we could definitely be looking back two months from now thinking that.
By TampaBrave
July 19, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
Will,
Got to disagree with you here. Pitching is thin everywhere. No one has a deep staff that is marginally better than ours. If we can take the East and that is very possible, we are as good as any other team out there right now.
Get Tex!! This will fill the glaring hole at 1st and in the lineup. We are wasting Salty, who may or not be ready to play everyday at a high level. He is a catcher and we already have one. To retrofit him to play first base is a move of desperation. Let Salty be be a catcher somewhere else and let’s get our house in order based on our specific needs.
Keep Escobar and KJ in the lineup. Let KJ play LF.
Don’t panic with the rotation. It will come around. Smoltz looks ready for the stretch run. If Hudson keeps his pitches down, he’ll be fine.
By Bill
July 19, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this
It would be a big mistake to trade for Teixeria. He is not going to bring WC to Atlanta. He makes to much money and the Braves would lose him after next season. It time to bring up B. Jones and let him play rest of season. Diaz would be extra OF. Harris can play infield and don’t bring back Orr. Didn’t the Braves at one time have C.J. Wilson? The trade I think they should make is for Dotel and Greinke of KC.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
Grinch The moral of that story is: Don’t play show-n-tell on the first date. :-)
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
The Grinch,
Are you forgetting McCann? Wait, you mentioned him a little farther down in your post.
I don’t think if the Braves get any smarter it’s going to make them have less than two catchers.
Salty’s a future star catcher, okay. But McCann is a star catcher right now. How does more intelligence change that?
The Braves seem to be doing the intelligent thing by playing Salty at first and quite possibly getting the feel for the trade market for him. Not sure what the Braves should do differently.
If I were them, I’d wait until the last possible second to trade a guy like that, when more team have an idea of whether they are buying or selling. Or I may wait until the off-season when I’m likely to get more.
Would trading him fill a “huge hole”? Pitching is the problem and there doesn’t seem to be any impact pitchers on the market worth trading Salty for. Firstbase is a minor problem but Salty is probably going to turn that around himself. I don’t see that trading him (or McCann or Renteria) would do much towards filling any “huge holes.”
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this
Coach, you’re a past master at avoiding issues and not responding … I’m not!
Neither am I apologizing for the GM … my personal view is that the fact that he may or may not provide the talent we feel is needed has nothing to do with whether the team performs up to expectations, except perhaps as I’ve previously suggested.
Your view evidently is that it does.
I’m still waiting for your response, mon ami.
By Colin
July 19, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
The Braves do need pitching and a first baseman..well we did need a pinch hitter thank you Franco :)….So now pitching and 1st. Da Meat Hook from Nats well ill take him but go after Teixeira from Texas.. As for pitching I have seen Ian Snell pitch and he has very dominating stuff.. So all and all get rid of Salty because i see him as a player who wont adjust when as in now the pitchers are adjusting to him.
By Will
July 19, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Tampa Brave, doesnt matter one way or another if pitching is thin alot of places cause their 4 and 5 starters are still getting wins once in awhile. Hudson is gonna be hit or miss as usual, Smoltz may be “healthy” today and he may be tommorow, but we will see how his shoulder is doing in mid-September. James is gonna be good, but cant go more then 5-6 innings tops, and then it is just a flat out mess. I am not worried about the rest of the league, i just look at what the Braves have on their roster right now and they do not have the pitching to make the playoffs. I am sick of making the playoffs and going home anyways, i cant stomach another NLDS loss and i really dont see this team winning the world series.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
From TwinCities.com:
“The way Pat Neshek is pitching, it wouldn’t be surprising if the Twins traded closer Joe Nathan, who is extremely marketable because he’s signed for a relatively meager $6 million next year, for a hitter and to use the savings on a new deal for Johan Santana.”
Folks, if we are going to get a bullpen arm; let’s get Nathan!!
He can close next year when Soriano is moved to the rotation.
Regards,
Jason
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this
Grinch When you return from the bone-cruncher: I want to get cirus for a moment.
I don’t know whether I agree with you about Salty or not. Probably not. McCann is too good of a catcher to let get away. Salty is too good of a catcher/? to let get away—yet. The Braves have got to run an alloy test on him at first, first, before they let him go. Unless someone offers a 1st-line pitcher or a stud 1st baseman. Then, the Braves have a, further, quandry.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this
Metropolitan Man,
Just saw your response about Franco.
Yes, I read that Newsday piece, too. Where anywhere in there does it say anything about the Mets portraying him as a chronic complainer?
Randolph said the Mets released him because he wasn’t producing, which I actually applaud them for. Where does it say anything about him being a “chronic complainer”? Maybe I’m just not seeing it.
By journalist jimmy smith
July 19, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
looks like something happened at grinch’s place last night if grinch has to see a chiropractor this morning. and please dismiss any thoughts of chipper delaying at third and a play being made at the plate. a play at the plate would land chipper on the disabled list for weeks. now, julio is going to start. that means either mccann or salty will sit, right? hmmm…. not a bench player after all. bring back garr, this team needs ralph garr. and now, toes … too little toe-talk here of late. toes are not to be trifled with.
By yars
July 19, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
The reality is, the National League is weak this season. Just look at the 3 divisions. There is no team that is running away with anything, unlike the Mets of last season. The Braves main concern is a quality starting pitcher. I think Yunel Escobar for Matt Morris *would be a fair trade. The Giants will be in rebuilding mode next season, & would be fools to resign SS Omar Visquel. Yunel could take over as their everyday SS next season. Let’s face it, that’s where he’s most comfortable, not at 2B. The Braves would then have a proven veteran pitcher that could help them reach the playoffs. He would also be an upgrade over James, Davies, Carlyle, & Jo Jo Reyes. A 1-2-3 punch of Smoltz, Hudson, & Morris could dominate in the playoffs. As for Teixeira, he would definitely provide a big boost for the lineup, even if he were to only be in a Braves uniform for a short time. This is the year Atlanta needs to reach the playoffs. *Andruw is gone after the season, both Smoltz & Chipper are getting older. This could be their last chance for a long time. With the team as it is right now, there is just no way it can reach the playoffs.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 19, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
*Mornin’, all! Paladin, everything was going fine ‘till she met little Grinch, then all she could talk about was how it didn’t compare to some old guy she knew in Vermont. Kinda ruined the mood. :-) *
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I love it. The chiropractor, though??? Dare I even ask???
By Colin
July 19, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this
Nathan would really be a help because as we can see Soriano only throws fastball that are straight and get sent to the moon so in 8th inning it would be huge to have Nathan for the 8th and sometimes the 9th. JS please get a starter and a relief pitcher. Talk to your buddy at the Royals and get Dotel…Greinke will be another Redman
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this
Will,
Braves aren’t going to give up on Thorman at this point in his career without getting something back.
What if he goes somewhere and becomes an Adam LaRoche in a good year type hitter? That’s not as far-fetched as you may think. Then the Braves just let him go and got nothing.
They may try to get him through waivers, but some team will no doubt claim him. He’s still young enough and showed enough promise in the minors, my guess is a team would be willing to take a chance if the Braves just offered him up for nothing.
If the Braves put him on waivers now, they can’t do it later when they may be more desperate and may want to seriously entertain trade offers for him.
By Lee
July 19, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Agree this Salty experiment at 1st is not going to last more than this year anyway. Since McCann seems to be most Braves fans favorite (not mine) at catcher, if the right deal comes along, go ahead and do the Salty trade. The trade that will haunt this team forever. I just hope it is to an AL team because I have this gut feeling Salty will reek havoc upon the Braves with his bat in the future.
Willie Harris is finally playing up (or should I say down) to his career numbers and capability. At least there will be no more talk of him being an everyday outfielder next season. Johnson may well be back in LF next season with Escobar at 2nd. I really think that would make this line-up better.
By Metropolitan Man
July 19, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
Shaun, here you8 go. NY Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/07/19/2007-07-19marlongetscallglavinegoesfor_299.html
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine,
With all due respect to TwinCities.com, it would indeed be very surprising. No way the Twins trade probably the best closer in the game in the heat of the playoff race.
Think about it, if he’s so cheap and he’s under contract for another year, why would they give him up in the heat of a playoff race?
Maybe in the off-season, but not right now. In fairness, maybe that’s what TwinCities.com is referring to, an off-season trade.
By Will
July 19, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
Shaun Do you seriously think Scott Thorman has the potential to ever become even a decent player. He has shown next to nothing these last couple years that indicate that. Sometimes you have to cut your losses on a guy and if he does better somewhere else so be it. Still dont understand what the problem is with plugging Salty in at first for good if the Braves decide to hold on to him. Although, i am starting to get a gut feeling that trading him when his stock is sky high is the right thing to do. I am starting to feel a tad bit weary about him being a perennial all star.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
Hillbilly & jjs Grinch to the chiropractor… Even I didn’t want to touch that line. :-)
By Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
July 19, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this
Shaun, PLEASE stop obsessing over this. Anyone with any pride (even a 48-year-old) who only gets 50 at-bats in close to 100 games is apt to be a chronic clubhouse complainer. Chris Woodward has twice that many at-bats this season, and even the abysmal Pete Orr has 56.
Apparently Bobby Cox has much more patience with sub-mediocrity at the plate than Willie Randolph does. I doubt Julio will have any complaints about lack of playing time now.
By Will
July 19, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this
I am seeing some fairly outlandish trade ideas on here. How about Salty for Pujols, that would really fill the need at first base. Or Salty for Johan Santana, now there is a great front of the rotation guy, i am sure the Braves could get him for dirt cheap. Bottom line is the trade market is thin as hell and its gonna be hard to justify giving up prime talent for any of the available players.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this
Lee,
Chances are Salty will reek havoc upon a lot of teams.
But if the right trade comes along, the players the Braves get will reek some havoc of their own.
If they do trade him, I don’t think it’s likely to be a trade that will haunt the franchise. JS knows what he’s got and knows what he’s doing. I can’t remember him ever trading a young player with this much potential for peanuts.
The last time I can remember him trading a young stud that turned out to be a star was Jason Schmidt for Denny Neagle, and Neagle turned out to be a Cy Young contender virtually every year he was here.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this
jjs Speaking of gar(r)s: I was sittin’ on the dock the other day, dangling my feet in the water, and one bit me on the toe(s). How’s that for transition and relativity? :-)
By Gil in Mechanicsville
July 19, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
Morning all, all this trade talk…… Still think Pena would be a good call up right now. Yesterday’s game was a tough loss. One would think that the denizens of this blog would be more astute. The Braves’ hitters missed several opportunities only because the other team made some spectacular plays. That’s just baseball.
Now the game on Monday was a debacle and the team needs to be ripped a new one for that but not yesterday’s game. You can’t guide the ball out of someone’s glove so get over it and realize we are still in this thing.
By Salty
July 19, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Grinch …everything was going fine ‘till she met little Grinch…Off to the chiropractor.
Talk about things that make you go, “Hmmmm”.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Renown Christmas Stealer, Salty is a future superstar catcher who will make some team very, very happy they have him
Interesting post, that … I personally believe that they can contend for both the division and the wildcard without such a change though that doesn’t mean that I disagree on Salty … it remains to be seen as to what the Braves’ real intentions are … I consider your comments on the intelligence of Braves’ management to be a rant and the their thinking may similar to yours.
We’ll see …
By Lew
July 19, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Efrim-Last night you asked for some positive thoughts. Here’s something. About a week ago, Braveheart mentioned this, but I don’t think many picked up on it. With our current rotation, Smoltz, Hudson, James, Carlyle and Davies, the Braves have a 48-35 record in their starts. Now at the present time, we are 5 games over .500, but with the CURRENT rotation, we are 13 games over .500 and this is with overuse of the bullpen, etc. Y’all, we don’t need another starter. However, with the bullpen issues recently, picking up another piece (say maybe Brad Lidge), or two, would probably be a good idea and a much cheaper option than a starter, which if you look at the figures, we don’t need. We could probably get an effective relief pitcher without giving up either Salty or Escobar. Hopefully, picking up Julio will be a good move. I think I would rather have had Conine, but Julio is a known quantity, a good clubhouse and fan fit and is as cheap as it can possibly get in MLB today. I don’t really see how it can hurt us, if not help considerably. Things aren’t going well at first right now, but anyone thinking Texiera is anything more than a rent a player is sadly disillusioned. I refer y’all to the Andruw contract issues for next year. Texiera would be more of the same and highy UN afforadable. Coach (You Think You’re Right That Often But you’re Really Totally Disillusioned As Usual)-Give up on the Contreras deal. The guy is no better this year than Davies has been. I don’t think paying $4.5 mil for the rest of the season is worth 2 more outs per game and 1/3 of a run over 9 IP is close to being a worthwhile deal-That’s the difference between Contreras and Davies. That Wrecking Ball really knocked what little sense you ever possessed right out of your head.
By DAP
July 19, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
i didnt get to read the blog after the game yesterday, i was physically sick after what happend…seriously.
anyways, ive been catching up, and i wanted to opine on a couple of comments.
first, i dont think salty’s average has been dropping because hes been playing first base…i think its because hes just A ROOKIE CALL-UP. i dont know why you guys expect him to hit .300 with power. it would be nice, but he 21, and not that calliber quite yet. in summary, playing 1st IS NOT affecting his hitting.
second, i dont think personel moves by JS and BC should be blamed for the braves not leading the east. how about a unbelievable slump for andruw? how about injuries for smoltz, chipper, mccann, cormier, wickman, gonzalez, hampton ect.?
my point is, as much as the manager and general manager can do to help the team win, there are alot of things that happen that they cant do anything about. thats baseball, and thats life.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
July 19, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this
A random thought: Seems to me like the ball pops out of Kelly’s glove a lot: Whether it’s fielding a grounder, or transitioning to turn a double play, he has dropped a lot of balls this season, many of which he avoided getting an error on by quickly recovering to make an out (like early in yesterday’s game). I know infielders generally use smaller gloves, but KJ’s glove seems tiny to me— almost Mike Stanton-like. I wonder if this has anything to do with the dropped balls or is he just getting in a hurry. Thoughts anyone?
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
Will,
Actually I do think Thorman has a chance to become decent. I do think the Braves should try to move him but I don’t think it would be wise to let him go for nothing. Whether he will be decent or not, I’m sure there are teams out there that would be willing to take a chance.
Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera,
Maybe Julio is a chronic complainer. I’m not trying to obsess over it. I’m just wondering where it’s coming from that he is one.
Metropolitan Man,
Your link didn’t work but I didn’t see anything about Julio being portrayed as a chronic complainer in the Daily News from the stories I can find. Again, maybe I’m missing something. If you would cut and paste those quotes, that would be helpful because I’m not seeing them.
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
Why do you guys care what’s written about players in the NY papers? In case you’ve not noticed through the years, there’s about five players who have GOOD relationships with the media in NY, and the rest come away scarred for life after playing for a NY team.
By Renegator
July 19, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
How long will Bobby trot Franco out there at first even if he’s not producing. I hate this signing…
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this
Anyone who calls the play by Chipper a “bonehead” play either doesn’t understand the game at this level, or doesn’t like Chipper. Sorry, but it’s one or both of those. Nothing more.
If you think it was a boneheaded play, let me know when you hear another player, a broadcaster, another manager or any of the very candid and critical guys on Baseball Tonight call it a boneheaded play. Anyone, in other words, other than the folks here watching it on TV and applying their Little League coaching principles to the play and determining it was a boneheaded play — by a very smart baserunner, by the way, who’d just stolen third base to put himself in position to be the winning run.
Unbelievable, how some simply can’t accept a loss without saying it occurred due to someone’s misplay or boneheaded move.
If the Braves’ prime relievers’ arms weren’t hanging to the ground from fatigue, the Braves win the game. Period. End of story.
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this
While perhaps there is no good purpose to be served in addressing Mr. Hull’s comments directed at me in his July 18 8:58 AM post as Paladin … with apologies for the topic and the length, I feel obligated to so do. I don’t expect many to agree but I hope most will consider me sincere.
I honestly believe that most of you know more about me than you would like, including my educational background, vocations, interests, travels, childhood, military record, und so wieter … that’s Greek for stories about my mother.
He suggests that I don’t like him, took umbrage at what he called a joke, and then proceeded to lecture and talk down to him … something he evidently doesn’t allow.
It’s true that I referenced his “joke” as it, together with some other recent blog activity, triggered the thoughts contained in my comment … but I wasn’t addressing him … what I said was “The Esteemed Jimmy Smith, My Lady, et alia may well hate it when some talk dirty” (referencing his joke) “but methinks it’s the uncouth behavior of those who know not how, that bothers them the most … I can think of few things worse than inept exhibitionists, craving attention and acceptance, who flaunt their own inadequacies, their disregard for propriety and the feelings of others … unless it’s those who find it humorous for them to so do”.
Other than having triggered the initial thought, that has nothing to with Mr. Hull unless he finds himself in one or more of those categories … it wasn’t addressed to him nor was it directed at his post … I wasn’t talking up to, down to, or straight at him. I may have taken license and I may well have been excessive but the essence was my opinion when I wrote it, it is my opinion now, and I see no reason for it to change.
I don’t know him, like him, or dislike him … however, I most certainly do not like some of his behavior … and have a disdain for both the flavor and content of some of his posts, finding them inappropriate for this blog. As a result, I no longer have any especial interest in his posts.
Regarding his “decorum” on this blog, he says “Quote me a time that I have been ‘dirtier’ than the average poster on here. You can’t!” His is a sad commentary on our average poster … but even if it were true, I find it both sad and improper when one attempts to use the bad behavior of others to justify their own. I think such a confrontational defensive posture as the one taken by Mr. Hull is as non-productive as it is belligerent.
We each evaluate an individual’s posts for ourselves and reach our own conclusions … methinks that how we view Mr. Hull and others who might abuse the use of the bawdy and the vulgar must be done on an individual basis because of the many subjective factors involved.
Mr. Hull draws especial attention to my relationship with Most Honorable Southern aka SJA and others … and suggests a double standard is being applied … with the apparent implication that the treatment be has received is unfair.
Most Honorable and I have crossed swords on many occasions … and many know that I’ve called him “Most Dishonorable” on more than one occasion! However, I consider him to be my friend, one I respect … and have received differing reviews from friend and foe alike for so doing … methinks he’s highly intelligent, not one of Doc’s Flock and is opposed apathy, same as me! To me, he’s one of the good guys … we have a special understanding and he knows as well or better than anyone that I disapprove when he misbehaves … no need to tell him! Still, I do offer reminders … sometimes in code, sometimes not.
Grinch, Lew, Coach, Nathan … goodness, the list is really quite long of folks that know … I hope I don’t have a dual standard when it comes to behavior, I do try hard for that not to be the case … but I also evaluate each person on an individual basis, as best I can … tain’t easy, with so many now posting … when they’re hiding behind the mask … especially those whose identity is just a matter of convenience.
Finally, he indicates that he doesn’t have a high opinion of me and has no desire to be my friend. I’m sure that he’s not unique in that regard … but while I find that to be unfortunate and would hope it isn’t true, it’s certainly his prerogative.
Again my apologies and thank you for your indulgence … as do my mother, my father, my sister and my brother.
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 19, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
Moan about the “thin market” all you want, deadline trades are always more expensive than off-season trades. The standard post here on the blog seems to be “get an impact pitcher but don’t trade anybody who may actually play in the majors someday”. Good thinking, if you can find a comotose GM who will do it. Otherwise, get ready to give up one of the blog’s favorites to get anybody remotely useful.
Say what you want about Hampton’s contract, but his injury is the reason the Braves are wearing out the bullpen and need rotation help. Asking three guys with fewer than a hundred starts total to be All-Stars at the back of the rotation is simply asking too much. Not that bloggers don’t constantly do it, but with that I try to consider the source.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
I agree completely regarding Nathan…I didn’t propose the trade. Simply thought it was interesting what a Twins beat writer wrote. I don’t think he was talking about an off-season trade though…
Regards,
Jason
By Will
July 19, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
Shaun, I agree there is no way trading Salty will haunt the Braves. The main reason is that they already have a franchise catcher who is basically the same age. No matter what Salty does elsewhere (hopefully in the AL) the braves will not trade him in a hasty trade and will not regret it if they do.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 19, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
Matt Morris is 1st in the NL with 3 complete games. Adding him would triple the number of CGs for the Braves.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
Lew,
I think we need a starter. I would like Davies to go back to the minors and I think Reyes should be kept in the bullpen to be our situational lefty. I feel that we should strengthen our rotation and add another arm to the bullpen. We just went cheap by signing Franco and not acquiring a bat via the trade market. Dmitri Young would of been a solid bat to pick up, but Bowden was asking for too much. We need to make a trade so that we have 5 solid starters going out there. It would really help.
By NCBravesFan
July 19, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
Braves/MIB Blog Denizens My sincerest apologies for our recent losing streak. It all started when I changed my computer network password to “bravesrule” back on Monday. I shoulda known!
If we lose tonight, I’m changing it to “bitememetsbloggers.”
By Will
July 19, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
I have to disagree a little bit about saying the Braves in the game with out a tired bullpen. They did not score a run for 4 straight innings after the 10th so even a rested bullpen could not have changed that.
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
Shaun, first of all, Saltalamacchia’s struggling at the plate of late. I’m sure you can wrangle up some statistical anomoly to prove that it’s just a phase he’s going through, but I tend to go with “the leagues’ pitchers and pitching coaches have adjusted their approach and know how to pitch him now.”
We have no idea what we’re going to get from Jarrod the rest of his career; we can assume all we want, but his major league track record is minimal. Mark Teixeira is a known commodity. By the offseason, the Braves would approach re-signing either Andruw or Mark, and if I’m them, I put my massive contract into Teixeira. He hits for power, hits for average, and fields a position we need a solid veteran presence at.
Outfielders are something we’ve options with, and a phenom (Brandon Jones) we can infuse into our plans for next season.
If the Rangers want Saltalamacchia for Teixeira, I’d make the trade - especially if we can make a deal to re-sign the guy before we pull the deal.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Well said about the Chipper play. Also there’s absolutely nothing Andruw or Francoeur could have done differently. Either one of those guys have an extra one or take away one Wheatie for breakfast and the Braves win.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
“They didn’t play like [a last-place club],” Chipper Jones said. “It’s hard for me to imagine that team having as few wins as they do with some of the offensive sock that they have in the middle of their lineup.”
Quiet Chipper. You just lost to the Reds man, got swept no less. Keep your mouth shut and do not compliment them.
If the Braves’ prime relievers’ arms weren’t hanging to the ground from fatigue, the Braves win the game. Period. End of story.
How do we fix that???
Acquiring another starter and reliever who can help out.
JS, make it happen. And yes, it is easy. There are 15 relievers out there that can help. Starters, maybe not, but I’m sure we can find someone better than Kyle Davies.
By Interested Observer
July 19, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
From Ken Rosenthal’s column today…
Braves: A fit for Teixeira?
The Braves’ biggest need is a No. 3 starter to slot behind righties John Smoltz and Tim Hudson, but they long have liked Teixeira, who played college ball in Atlanta at Georgia Tech.
Club officials insist they will not trade infielder Yunel Escobar or catcher/first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia in a package for Teixeira, who is a free agent after next season. But Escobar and Saltalamacchia aren’t their only quality prospects.
The Braves have outfielder Brandon Jones at Class AA, shortstop Elvis Andrus and outfielder Jordan Schafer at Class A and several power arms in their system. They also could include first baseman Scott Thorman in a deal for Teixeira.
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
GHF three times zero is still zero. ;-)
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Have you ever heard a former teammate or coach or manager say anything negative about Julio Franco or that he’s a chronic complainer? Maybe MetroMan is getting his info from Robert about Julio.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
NO WAY Daniels makes that trade without getting Escobar or Salty. Ken Rosenthal is confused.
By the way,
Check out Jordan Schafer’s numbers. The kid can apparently go get it in centerdfield as well. He is our CF of the future.
2010 lineup:
2B Johnson SS Escobar 1B Saltalamacchia RF Francouer C McCann 3B Campbell LF Jones CF Schafer
Spend the rest of the money on pitchers……
By Salty
July 19, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
Colin Greinke will be another Redman
That requires elaboration, please!
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
Optimist Glass
“Matt Morris is 1st in the NL with 3 complete games. Adding him would triple the number of CGs for the Braves”
Please explain …
By Lew
July 19, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
Efrim-I agree that Davies is frustrating and if a pitcher could be found for relatively little $$, that would be an improvement ( oe that would go at least .500 or better), then by all means we should grab them. But the Braves are 7-10 in Davies starts-not good, mind you, but he apparently keeps us in the games long enough to give us a chance at winning. Quite honestly, I was a bit surprised at our record in his starts-it was better than I would have thought. I think the bullpen is worn out-hell, after almost 20IP in three days, I’m sure they’re wiped out. Relief help is going to be more available and cheaper. I’m of the opinion, it would help us more than a starter. If we could pick up Vasquez for something less than our Triple A team, maybe we should do that deal-IF we can afford him the next three years. He would, I feel, be a decent #3-4 starter and is signed relatively inexpensively for three more years. I know some here view him as soft, but his career K to BB ratio has always been good-even if he’s not a power type pitcher. That (the long term cheap contract) MIGHT make it worth Salty. I definitely LAUGH at those who think picking up Contreras bears any intelligence, though. That’s just replacing terrible numbers with slightly less terrible numbers for a lot more $$$$.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
Man, I just don’t understand not trading Esobar for Tex. I really don’t. Listen, I think the guy has done great since he has been here…but, he is 25 and it has been a small sample size. Tex just turned 27 in April, has won gold gloves, has driven in 144 runs in a season, has hit 43 HR, and hit over .300. Escobar may never be as good at his position as Tex is at his. He will obviously never provide the same offense…different type of player. With the depth the Braves have at middle infield, and with Renteria under contract for next year; I would include Escobar in a trade for Tex without giving it a second thought. Obviously, JS has forgotten more about both baseball and the teams’ prospects than I will ever learn, but am I crazy on this one?
Regards,
Jason
By TennesseePaul
July 19, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
I don’t think Julio is going to be an anchor drowning this team. The guy has something to offer. No chronic complaining when he played here for 5 seasons. Plus, re-hiring Julio ups his chances of getting a coaching or managing job in our system. And, though I’ve never played ball with Julio in any of his 71 professional seasons, I’d imagine he’d make a good coach or manager one day.
His knowledge of the game will be a breath of fresh air. He’s played in every park in the galaxy. The guy knows baseball in a million different languages. I’m sure he’ll be of help. I don’t expect him to be the Crime Dog pick up. More like a player coach than anything.
I’m looking forward to seeing him back in the Braves uniform. Hopefully they give him a lighter bat to use this time around.
Ascanio really did well yesterday. I was impressed with him. To bad he got sunk in the end, but it was the 15th inning and we had a rookie on the mound.
How anyone could be suprised, shocked or furious that Yates, Soriano, Wicky, the bullpen in general are slacking as of late is beyond me. They’ve pitched more than the starters. Hell, the first game of the series included 9 innings of relief. Bobby is going to have to keep his guys out there longer, even if the pitch count is 87 or 90 he can’t take them out. He’s just going to have to stretch them out to 100-110 pitches. That type of pitching is what matters in the post season.
Now, the team needs to rest up, get on the field, and kick the everlovinshit out of the defending World Champions.
GO BRAVES
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
Salty is hitting .287/.340/.426 in his very young career. I would put more stock in his minor league track record and his impressive early major league stats more than just his overall major league stats or his recent struggles.
True, we have no idea what Salty is going to do but we know he’s a heck of a player and he’s young and he’s signed for longer and is a heck of a lot cheaper than Teixeira.
Also, Teixeira may be more expensive than Andruw by the time he’s a free agent. Odds are he isn’t going to sign a deal before his current contract expires as Boras is his agent.
Do I think it would be a bad move to trade Salty for Teixeira? Not really. But I would think the Braves are leaning towards waiting until the off-season to trade Salty when more pitchers may become available and teams are figuring out what they need and don’t need.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 19, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this
I’m not worried about the criticism of Franco. Sometimes players just aren’t a good fit for a certain ball club. Think about Sheffield…He had problems in LA, but was normal as a Brave and Yankee; now he’s in Detroit and he’s Terrence Moore/Jesse Jackson on HGH.
By GSU-Lee
July 19, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
DOB, what would it take for you to trade Salty or Escobar if you were the GM?
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
Efrim,
Yeah because if you save your money for pitchers, you are guaranteed to get quality ones, huh?
Look at the Yankees.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
More regarding the Braves’ interest in C.J. Wilson from the same Rosenthal article:
“The Rangers’ C.J. Wilson, a left-handed reliever, continues to draw interest from the Braves and other clubs, but the Rangers control Wilson through 2011, so their asking price will be high. Ron Mahay, another of the Rangers’ lefty relievers, is a more realistic target. Mahay, a free agent at the end of the season, has issued 20 walks in 34 innings, but left-handed hitters are batting .208 against him, righties .212. His road numbers, in particular, are outstanding …”
Regards,
Jason
By Metropolitan Man
July 19, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
Whats with the hostility with NY papers DOB. Because the AJC (Always Junky Columns) has no competition and it shows. The AJC is good for braves news, the vent, view from the cop, and this blog…..sometimes. However reading this vent I see the METS mentioned so many times that I wonder why you guys dont check the local NY papers to keep tabs. How else will you know the enemy if you dont learn about them. I possibly know more about that braves team than most acclaimed fans do, not becasue I am of fan of the braves but becasue they are the biggest competition in the division. There is nothing wrong with being well rounded on both club. Its like a stankees fan reading up on Boston. You cant be worried about losing hits, another #7 made sure you guys wont lose any hits.
Shaun: The article is titled Marlon gets call; Glavine goes for 299. Follow the links, Baseball…then METS.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Glass Half Full (GHF),
What criticisms of Franco, in terms of him fitting in? I have yet to see any.
The Mets said they let him go because he wasn’t performing. I have yet to see any criticism beyond his performance. Apparently MetroMan has some stocked away somewhere that he can show us.
By StingerSplash
July 19, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
The Boston Globe asked Red Sox fans to vote who the Sox should target in trade talks. Salty was the No.1 choice, ahead of even Roy Oswalt.
By Salty
July 19, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
JasoninMaine You made excellent points…better than most of late…and difficult to argue with (though some will, be assured!).
Probably the big issue…and it’s big, is the pending free agency (Escobar for ‘rent-a-player’…ouch!), and the Boras connection. Which, if any, Boras player do the Braves want?
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
Well, we haven’t developed any in a while. We are very good at developing position players, but since Kevin Millwood, I can’t remember the last one we developed that did well for our team. Schmidt does not count, took him years to get it done. If Tommy Hanson fails, it is back to the drawing board once again.
And what the heck is Rosenthal talking about, we do not have “power arms” in our system. He is very wrong there.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 19, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
The Braves currently have zero complete games. Morris has 3 more CGs than the entire team.
By Will
July 19, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
Shaun, I also totally agree with you that although Tex would be a good trade, they will not get max value for their prospects right now because teams are not gonna give up great talent without great young talent in return. I just hope the Braves do not make a panic trade and still probably not make the playoffs.
By tyyosh
July 19, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
DOB, hey we could be wrong about that play, sure, and it still does not guarantee the win, because the next hitter has to get a hit, but why don’t you ask Chipper about it and see what he says? You are the only one who can do this.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
StingerSplash,
They want him so bad. Fans that is. They are worried about Varitek. Salty for Lester would be a decent bounty. Although the Braves could get more for Salty.
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Shaun… I said I’d prefer a sign-and-trade scenario if we were to go after Teixeira. And, sorry, we’ll agree to disagree, then, that Teixeira’s known MLB statistics provide more to us than percieved MLB future numbers from Saltalamacchia, at this rate.
Some folks seem to think he’s supposed to become this 35-40 HR 100+ RBI and high average guy, and there’s no hint of that in his minor league numbers. He hit for decent power one season (.314 19 HR 81 RsBI in 129 games at high-A ball). That season aside, he’d hit .239, .272 and .230, never hitting more than 10 HRs (in 91 games in A ball).
Sure, he’s a physical specimen, and his hustle’s great, and he’s hit well in his initial two months into the bigs. So did Francoeur, and our pie-in-the-sky aspirations for what we expected and/or hoped for from him have come down to earth quite a bit since his splash, too, haven’t they?
I’m just saying, Saltalamacchia’s not untradeable, and if dangling him gets us a Mark Teixeira (with an option to have Tex alrady signed, especially) then I think that makes us a World Series contender, and a lock to win the division now.
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Whatever problems he may or may not have had fitting in in New York, rest assured he won’t have them here. Most of these Braves know and love Julio. Even young guys like Francoeur and McCann played with him in 2005, and to a man they relished playing with the guy and having fun kidding around with him in the clubhouse.
GSU, for me it would take a young, impact player who’s affordable for a few years, or a really good starting pitcher who’s not on the downside of his career.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Here is what the Boston Globe says about Salty:
“Jarrod Saltalamacchia Position: Catcher/First base Team: Atlanta Braves
Line up for this guy. Everybody wants him. The Sox desperately need a young catcher. This is the guy.”
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/071607tradedeadline?pg=8
Regards,
Jason
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 19, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
I just meant that if Franco FIT in the Mets clubhouse, he wouldn’t have been released. How long did we keep Pete Orr up here because Bobby “liked” him or because he was a “good guy?”
By TheSouthernJackAss
July 19, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
TheSouthernJackAss will now share another of his childhood experiences with the blog, an experience somewhat relative to current baseball goin’s on’s…
When I was just a young JackAss of about 6 years of age, a stray dog was discovered one spring mornin’ at our kitchen door…he was a quiverin’, and a whimperin’, and as hungry as a herd of starvin’ hogs right before sloppin’ time…lookin’ all sad and dejected…just an ol’ mongrel I reckoned, but I kinda liked him, and was allowed to keep him as a pet…well, he turned out to be an extremely playful ol’ dog, and a dang good watchdog too, cause he liked to bark at everything a comin’ and a goin’, and I spent many long, summer days a rompin’ around with my new friend…I really liked a havin’ him around…
Then one autumn day our neighbor from down the road stopped by and asked Pappy if he would sell him that ol’ hound…now our neighbor Lamar was an avid coonhunter, and he told Pappy that my dog was a Bluetick, and that he would most likely make a dang good coonhound…well, Pappy told him that the decision to sell him, or not, was mine to be made…and at first I was all against it, but when he flashed a fifty dollar bill in front of my face, I said, “mister you just bought yourself a mighty fine coondog”…so he loaded him into the bed of his old pickup truck and drove away…
Every now and again I would see ol’ Lamar a drivin’ by our house with the back of his pickup truck packed full of coonhounds, includin’ my ol’ friend, and I sure did miss him, and felt awful bad about a sellin’ him too…
Then, after several months had passed, one day ol’ Lamar pulls into our driveway with that old dog a layin’ there on the tailgate, a lookin’ about as pitiful as he did the day he showed up at our backdoor…Lamar begins a tellin’ us how that in the beginnin’ the old hound tried to keep up with his other coondogs when on a hunt, said he bayed real good too, but that he was just too slow, and old, to keep up with the others, so he wasn’t even worth the food that ate as far as Lamar was concerned, and that he had thought about a takin’ him out somewhere and just a puttin’ a bullet in his head, but that he would wait to see if I would want him back before a wastin’ a good bullet on him…and that a measly 5 bucks and, “you can have the worthless mutt back”…so I handed Lamar a five, grabbed my ol’ friend, and gave him a great, big ol’ hug…you should have seen him a waggin’ his tail and a jumpin’ all around…Oh, let me tell you, I was so happy, just tickled to death, nearly speechless…the only words that I was able to get out of my mouth were…”Welcome back Julio, ol’ friend!”…
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
bj as do my mother, my father, my sister and my brother.
You forgot your dog, Fala.
As for the rest, it was just another in your long line of boring dissertations except for the use of my name. That is another of your extremely low(life) blows.
Now, go pick on a troll, or pick your nose, or both.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Metropolitan Man,
Yes, I found the story now. I see.
Funny how they don’t include any quotes to let the reader decide how they are portraying him, in typical NY media fashion.
Also, it’s funny that I guess they’re calling up Lastings Milledge because he’s a much better clubhouse guy than Julio Franco.
It’s all about performance, Randolph said as much.
Here’s something the Daily News wrote last week:
“Popular in the clubhouse, Franco often acted as a coach, motivating both veterans and younger players.”
Which one is it? Is he popular or a complainer?
By N8
July 19, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
DOB
You said the following:
“Unbelievable, how some simply can’t accept a loss without saying it occurred due to someone’s misplay or boneheaded move.”
Fair enough. But then you follow that up with this:
“If the Braves’ prime relievers’ arms weren’t hanging to the ground from fatigue, the Braves win the game. Period. End of story.”
If one were to read between the lines, one COULD come to the conclusion that you are “blaming” Kyle Davies ZERO INNING performance the other day…… or not?
:-)
By Will
July 19, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts With Mark Tex having Scott Boras as a free agent NO WAY he lets a sign and trade happen, Boras wants his clients to test the market. Come on there is no way that would happen!!
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Sure will, tyyoth, though you should know we all talked to him about the play and the game afterward, and, to be honest, no one even thought it necessary to ask him whether he made a mistake. By that I mean, everyone in the pressbox, Cincy writers included, knew that’s an instinct play and that he’s got to go if he thinks it’s going over the infielder’s head, because otherwise he’s got little chance to score.
After seeing the replay and where Griffey was playing (in right-center), there’s no doubt in my mind that if the ball goes over Phillips and Chipper waits to go until after he’s sure it’s over Phillips, he’s out by 5 feet or more on an easy throw from shallow right field by Griffey. No doubt at all, in my mind.
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 19, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Either we shoot the wad on Tex and a serviceable starter or focus solely on a starting pitcher.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
Okay, so because the Braves haven’t developed any pitchers, it means that throwing more money into the pitching staff will help?
Also, Schmidt doesn’t count because it took him years? Schmidt was a good, 200-inning a year pitcher by age 25.
Yes, pitching is very important and it’s harder to find pitching but the game is still 50 percent offense.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
Salty,
I agree about the rent-a-player, but we would have him for at least next year. Tex is in his prime. Would he sign long-term with the Braves? I don’t know. Stranger things have happened when people come to the ATL and play for BC. But, he isn’t a 3 month rental. And, if they can’t resign Andruw; they will have a switch-hitting, gold glove caliber 1B with a proven track record to slide into the cleanup spot. It makes sense for this year and next.
My main point is that Tex is only a couple of years older than Escobar. The only way it makes sense, at least to me, that the Braves won’t include Escobar is that they plan on trading Renteria in the offseason and feel as though none of their other middle infield prospects will be ready.
Regards,
Jason
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
SJA Your dissertations are gettin’ almost as long as the Bard of Brentwood’s. And the writing style is very similar. Just a coincidence?
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
N8, yes, I was blaming primarily that performance, but also the insistence on going with the same two guys (Yates and Soriano) almost every time they have a lead, and the insistence on only using Chuck for six innings when he clearly looks capable of going seven or more, especially a few days ago.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Sorry, the length of the previous link is too long for the AJC’s format. If anyone really wants the article, Click Here
Regards,
Jason
By Colin
July 19, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
I have been reading everyones and it seems that everyone is split on either Tex or pitching. I am as well do we try sticking out with 1st and get pitching or stick out with pitching and get Tex…well pitching wins championships so i guess Snell…Gorzo…Morris…Contreras….Vazquez..get one of them…
By BravesFanInRockies
July 19, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
I’ve calling for getting a new arm as much as anyone. The thing that’s worrisome about getting a pitcher this time of year — even calling one up — is that other teams have played games, too, and their arms can be worn out as well.
A change of scenery or the adrenaline of a pennant race can help some guys. But you can’t count on finding someone who’s fresh and ready to give you another dozen effective starts or 40 solid relief appearances.
Which means it would be real nice if Lance Cormier could come back …
By Metropolitan Man
July 19, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
Shaun: I beleive he would have been fine if he got more at bats. They only signed him to keep him away from the braves and weaken them in 2006 which happened to an extent. Personally he will never be as popular anywhere except ATL. I have nothing bad to say about Julio, heck his longevity is something to strive for.
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Will, I feel ya on Boras, man. But I’d like to think Mark Teixeira would also relish the opportunity to play in Atlanta for longer than half a season, and it’s Boras’ job to do not only what’s best for the player, but also what the player wants.
But if I’m the Braves, and I’m gonna have to throw $15 million (give or take) into a four-year deal for a cleanup hitter, I’d do it for Teixeira long before I’d do it for Andruw Jones. I don’t think Teixeira would just bolt after the season without giving Atlanta all the opportunity in the world to make the deal stick. That’s just my gut.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You don’t understand what I am saying.
By NC Braves Fan
July 19, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Everyone seems to be focused on Chipper’s play…no one seems to care/remember that KJ booted a ball that directly led to a run or two.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
I know it is too late. SJA has probably already loosed the hounds of hell upon me. But, I went back and saw where your piece was on Julio. I thought you were playing back-up for BobJ. Yes, sir! Sorry, sir! Won’t let it happen again, sir!
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Kelly (a few were earlier), I just noticed the Padres have benched Marcus for three games so he can work on some things and try to get out of his slump. He’s hit .191 since May 7.
Best move the Braves made last offseason might have been the one they didn’t make — not offering Giles arbitration.
By E
July 19, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Can it be monday morning and the Braves 54-45?
By DonCoburleone
July 19, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
“Sorry if this perturbs anybody here in the blog, but this is just a mediocre Braves team. If they make the playoffs I’ll be surprised. This is what mediocre teams do. They look good for a while and then they disappear. A drum buddy gave me an illustration recently that I’ll apply. Regarding drummers he said: there are guys that own drums, there are drummers, and then there are musicians. This team falls into the drummers category. They’re not musicians yet. I love ‘em and listen or watch frequently but this is not what we’re spoiled on and this payroll is killing our hopes right before our eyes.”
——Hands down the best post of the past 24 hours, nailed it right on the head Drummerdad.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
I get what your saying.
But don’t pretend Salty isn’t likely to develop into one of the best offensive catchers in the game or that it’s a mystery as to what he’s likely to do or that he may not hit enough to be a decent offensive firstbaseman.
You say he hasn’t shown that much power in the minors. Guess how many times Chipper hit more than 13 homers in the minors? Once in four seasons. He hit 15 in 1991 and 13 a couple of seasons.
Salty is almost sure to be at the very least a league average offensive firstbaseman, if he stays with the Braves as a firstbaseman. Teixeira is likely going to be one of the better hitting firstbasemen in the league but he’s also going to cost millions more and he may be gone by the end of 2008. This is the most likely scenario of how both players will perform and what the Braves have to weigh.
Just because Tex has done it before doesn’t mean it’s wiser to trade Salty for Tex than it would be to keep Salty. I actually agree that it may be just as wise but I wouldn’t say one way is the obvious wiser choice.
As far as sign and trade, they don’t happen in baseball. They just don’t. What team would go through the trouble of negotiating a contract with a high-priced player just so that they can trade him? And what player would agree to negotiate with a team that is just going to turn around a trade him to a place where he may or may not want to go?
By N8
July 19, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
DOB
“…and the insistence on only using Chuck for six innings when he clearly looks capable of going seven or more, especially a few days ago.”
Be careful my friend, some of the homers will get mad at you for suggesting we should expect more out of Chuck (or Bobby having faith in him). LOL!
I mean, AFTERALL… He IS giving us “quality starts”, isn’t that enough? :-)
Just giving you crap man.
I’m in a state of calm over this team. I’ve resided to the fact that until a deal gets done (Julio doesn’t count), that this team is mediocre and will not get over the hump. They will show signs of brilliance (Pittsburgh series), allowing their fans to think they can get to the post season.
Followed by mass confusion and disarray (Cincinnati series), making one believe they aren’t capable of beating Georgia Tech.
I’m gonna sit back and enjoy the roller coaster ride, enjoy the kids (except for Davies), and hope that it all “works out”….either this year or next.
Of course that doesn’t mean I won’t complain. Can’t have that now, can we? :-)
Would YOU trade Salty for Tex, if the Braves could sign him long term (even if it means Andruw is a goner)?
By knowitall
July 19, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
DOB,
No use explaining the play to people here. If Chipper waits to go and then is thrown out at the plate, they would all be calling him a bonehead for not going on contact or not running hard. I bet the Braves could win the World Series this year and somone would get on here and say “yeah we won but…….
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
July 19, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about trying to slug your way into the post-season. Remember 2003? Ridiculous power numbers, but Wood and Prior shut that mess down.
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
JasoninMaine makes a good point; Teixeira isn’t a rental. He’d be ours through 2008, thus, I think making us no worse than what we already are, contender-wise. And we’d still have some money freed up to either grab a veteran CF to replace Andruw with or call up Brandon Jones to platoon with Diaz in LF and move Francoeur to CF (he’s speedy enough, and has the cannon arm), then play Willie Harris in RF and put that extra money into another pitcher. Keep in mind we’re supposed to get Mike Hampton back (scoff) and/or Lance Cormier for the rotation in ‘08.
While getting Teixeira doesn’t improve our pitching, it does help our offense compensate for our mediocrity on the hill. I said it all day yesterday and believe it to be true: getting Teixeira and adding him to our everday lineup this season makes us more like a formidable American league team - with plenty pop in the lineup and just enough pitching to win.
Come playoff time, just enough pitching can be more than enough in best-of-five and best-of-seven series.
See: St. Louis Cardinals, 2006
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
*Shaun,
You don’t understand what I am saying.*
Shaun?! Impossible!
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What’s the average lead for a major league baserunner off thirdbase? Six to ten feet, at least?
How could Chipper covered at least six to ten feet in a second and a half? Just no way.
Chipper should have known there was no possibility of a ground out or a wild pitch or a shallow base hit and just not took a normal lead. How ignorant of him!
By N8
July 19, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
DOB
“Best move the Braves made last offseason might have been the one they didn’t make — not offering Giles arbitration.”
Amen! And HOW MANY people were pizzing and moaning about A) ownership being too cheap to keep him and B) NOT having an ample replacement.
It’s moves like that, (or as you say - NON moves), that make up for the Dan Kolbian type moves, IMO.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
I’m taking a lunch and power nap break. So, have your way with me, in my absence—if you want/will. But, I’ll be back. Count on it!
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
For the record, I am asking what others think about not including Escobar in a trade for Salty per Rosenthal’s latest column. While that obviously indirectly has to do with Salty as Tex would be the everyday 1B, I am more curious as to why the Braves wouldn’t include Yunel. Like I said, the only way it makes any sense to me is if they plan on trading Renteria in the offseason, don’t feel as though any of their other top tier middle infield prospects are ready, and are going to give the everyday job to Escobar. As I have argued, Tex is already better at his position than Yunel will be at his and is only a couple of years older.
Regards,
Jason
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
Glass Half Full (GHF),
The Yankees slugged their way into the post-season in 2005 and 2006. The Red Sox slugged their way into the post-season in 2005. Just a few recent examples.
I agree chances are you winning in the post-season are low without power arms but you can certain reach the post-season with great offense and average pitching. And if you reach it, you have at least some chance to win.
Ron Roberts,
True Tex is not really a “rental.” But he’s only signed for one more season while Salty’s under contract for much longer. Again, not arguing for or against a trade, just that it’s not a no-brainer either way.
My guess is the Braves would get more in an off-season deal when maybe teams would be more willing to give up pitching and possibly key players that aren’t trying to help them in the middle of a pennant race.
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
Shaun… if getting Mark Teixeira nets us a World Series this and/or next year, Saltalamacchia can hit all the HRs he wants wherever we send him, and I won’t be kicking myself wishing we’d kept him. That’s that with that.
As for the sign-and-trade, it’s really even unnecessary to discuss that because if we got Teixeira, he’s still under contract through 2008, just eligible for arbitration. So he’d be ours for more than just the remainder of this season.
I’m not pretending anything about Saltalamacchia. Kid’s got talent and tremendous upside. I’m just saying, over the years I’ve seen that before. We saw it from Brad Komminsk, and that never panned out. Rafael Furcal was supposed to be what Jose Reyes definitely is, too. I’m not yet disappointed in Jeff Francoeur, but he’s not Ryan Howard, when it comes to power and RBI output, either. I’m just saying, alot of us buy into the hype of kids coming up through the farm system, and we get this lofty notion that we somehow have the “next” (insert marque player here), and it doesn’t always pan out that way. Remember everbody clamoring to see James Jurries play in Atlanta last year? How’s that working for us, now?
By TheSouthernJackAss
July 19, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Hardly a coincidence…TheSouthernJackAss has been influenced in many ways by the ol’ Bard…and proudly so…
The most distinctive dissimilarity betwixt he and TheJackAss would be if encountering some misguided punk intending to inflict some type of harm…the Bard may simply dismiss the hapless fellow, bid him adieu, and move along…TheJackAss on the other hand, would be most apt to swiftly land about 40 pounds of quality boot leather directly into the piehole of such an A$sClown, then proceed to stomp the said sleazer into oblivion, then kick his @$$ for getting TheJackAss’s boots greasy…how’s that for style?…
By MGL
July 19, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
“Second baseman Marcus Giles, who’s hitting just .191 since May 7, was benched for three games starting with Wednesday night’s series finale against the New York Mets.”
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Sorry, I obviously meant a trade for Tex…I think we already have Salty (:
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
GHF… I remember 2003, too, but there’s no Wood/Prior tandem out there this season, either. The Padres probably have the best rotation in the National League, and the Tigers the best in the American League, but I don’t think there are many shut-down guys out there among the contenders, really. Smoltz being one of the few.
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
July 19, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Bob , what part of I WILL NOT REPEAT MYSELF DIDN’T YOU UNDERSTAND ? ……..Carroll Rogers previous blog concerning the dearth of complete games is so very relevant at the moment. If Smoltz had been allowed to go nine , the Braves win yesterday’s game. Bobby Cox’s artificial 100 pitch count limit cost the Braves not only the game , it cost the bullpen eight more innings of wear and tear they could have done without.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
Here’s what you said:
“2010 lineup:
“2B Johnson SS Escobar 1B Saltalamacchia RF Francouer C McCann 3B Campbell LF Jones CF Schafer
“Spend the rest of the money on pitchers……”
Okay, so you load your lineup with young hitters. Where do you get pitchers? From trades? Maybe you can trade for one of two good pitchers but who’s going to trade a true ace in a deal that would be worth it? Free agent market? How many pitchers on the free agent market are worth signing to big, long-term deals that they command? Probably less than one a year.
By Salty
July 19, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
Jason and Ron Roberts
Thanks for the clarification on Texeira…I don’t commit everything to memory for all players. Unlike some, I admit to imperfection! :-)
By knowitall
July 19, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Grinch
Do not fear. We will get a chance to see what MV7 can do in Petrino’s offense because suspending him now would not be punishment for Falcon’s fans. If he gets suspended now, we could still sign Culpepper and have a decent shot this season. No, our punishment will be far worse.
A look ahead to the fall: The Michael Vick led Falcons storm into the playoffs after setting club records for points scored in a season. Vick set personal highs for TD passes and completion percentage while leading the Falcons to the NFC South Championship.
The Falcons season however came to a screeching halt as the Joey Harrington led Falcons were shut out in their worst home playoff loss ever. Harrington was at the helm because Vick’s dog fighting trial started just three days before the beginning of the playoffs.
By Salty
July 19, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
Coach Honestly, I think Smoltz gives up the homer by Dunn…he was on his last legs in the 7th and the pitches were up…just an opinion…but I didn’t see 9 innings in him.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
If Tex nets us a World Series, fine. But there are no guarantees. Tex would make the Braves better but is it worth giving up a player that is young, cheap and under contract for several more seasons for a guy who is older, more expensive and is only under contract for less than 1-1/2 more seasons and is likely going to be at least as expensive as Andruw Jones to re-sign after that?
I’m fully aware how long Tex is signed for. I’m also fully aware that Salty’s not eligible for anything for quite a while.
And Saltalamacchia doesn’t have to be the next superstar player for it to be worthwhile for the Braves to keep him. Yes, he’s likely not going to produce like Tex in the near future and maybe ever, but he could provide 60 percent of the production for 10 percent of the price for many more years.
Hitters like Salty succeed more than they fail. I think it’s very unlikely Salty will become less than an average offensive player.
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
July 19, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this
Shaun there is a way the Braves could get a couple of top young pitching prospects , but it would mean dismantling this team and that won’t happen with the current ownership.
By Lee
July 19, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Marcus Giles was never that good of a player. Reading between the lines this year, Adam LaRoach was far more liked and missed by other Braves than Giles would ever be. Giles had the attitude of a short man’s complex. Cocky for his size and that is about it. Roachy was laid back and played just as hard as Giles. His personality just made it look like he did not.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
The Cubs just signed two this offseason that have pitched fairly well. Marquis and Lilly. Meche has pitched well for the Royals. It happens. Those are three.
By Choppinmama
July 19, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
DOB: I warmed up your seat for you in the press box last Saturday when the ladies of Baseball 101 toured through.
I also threw some pitches to Chuck Davies and Tyler Yates in the bullpen, hit in the batting cage with Woodward and took some grounders from Matt Diaz and Chad Paranto out in the field! It was an awesome day, just like the past 9 years of Baseball 101.
We were really surprised to see that Chuck was participating as he was starting that night, but I’m a firm believer that these poor guys pulled the short straws and HAD to come out and interact with us ladies.
Looked for you at bp, but no Blogmeister sighting that night.
Adding my 2 cents to the blog: we just HAVE to find a way to win these close games - runner on third and no outs, and NO SCORE - that’s just mediocrity, and won’t lead us into the Promised Playoff Land. Julio is a better pinch-hitter than Davies - another pitiful situation to be in when the game is on the line. Finally - bunt, Bobby, bunt!!
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
July 19, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
Salty , he struck out Dunn both times he faced him. I watched the game , Smoltz was not up in the zone. He was at 92 pitches and Bobby pulled him to keep Smoltz under that 100 pitch count limit.
By BossLady
July 19, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
Well said Bob Journalist. Good participation on this blog anyway DOB in light of “the other” story yesterday.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
So the Braves are basically mentioned in every trade rumor that is made. Please read Jayson Stark’s column on ESPN.com. Apparently they are in on everyone from Tex to CJ Wilson to Dotel. There is nothing in the way of starters that are available. Grienke might be able to start, but is he really that much better than Davies??? Probably.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this
Coach ( I’m Only Right 90% Of The Time),
Actually that magic number of 100 pitches doesn’t come out of nowhere.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2633
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
July 19, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
Dunn actually struck out twice and walked once once in three at bats against Smoltz yesterday.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
But how many years are they going to be effective? And are those three guys true aces? And even if the Braves had more resources, could they still afford three fairly expensive, effective pitchers? Would it be wise?
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
I don’t care if Saltalamacchia is young, cheap and under contract, dude. That’s not relevant to what my goal would be in making a move for Teixeira. if Saltalamacchia’s under contract and ours for the next four years and struggles, he’ll still be young, cheap and under contract. But he’ll be ours while Mark Teixeira, who’s a proven MLB power-hitting (and for average, too) first baseman would likely be playing elsewhere.
If Teixeira, after 1.5 seasons becomes as expensive as Andruw by then, well, guess what - we’re probably not paying Andruw that money by then, but will be freed up to pay somebody superstar, cleanup-hitting money by then. The dudes’ only 28, will only be 30 when it’s time to re-sign him (Andruw’s 30 now, by the way, and shows physical decline).
And how can you make a generalized decree like *Hitters like Salty succeed more than they fail.”? I’m actually AFRAID of the dissertation you’re about to level on us all by explaining that, but how can you quantify that statement with something factual, man?
Saltalamacchia’s minor league statistics do not dictate that he’s much of anything other than streaky, which is sort of what we’re seeing of him at the major league level. Dude, don’t get me wrong; I do think Saltalamacchia’s a commodity, and most teams that want him covet him because he’s a catcher who has offensive upside.
To me, that’s what makes him expendable for the Braves. We don’t need a young catcher, and if we can make a deal to acquire an All-Star caliber 1B in the process without losing something out of our everday lineup, I’m all for it. Yunel Escobar’s an exception because I think he gives us options in the offseason if somebody wants to give us something tangible (pitching) for Edgar Renteria in the offseason.
By Choppinmama
July 19, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
Lee - that’s the most inane blog I’ve read on here in a few days. What lines have you been “reading between”? What are you basing your opinion on that Roachy was missed by the other players and that Giles was not? How many games did you watch to assert that Giles was only cocky, and did not play well? How many double plays involving Marcus and Furcal did you see? Better yet, the question to you should be: how many solid, defensive plays by Marcus did you miss? With a post like yours, the answer is: A LOT!!
Granted, Giles fell off offensively his last year here, but who doesn’t have an off year? He was good enough to be an All-Star. Did you miss that season’s worth of play?
By geauxbraves2000
July 19, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
Wow, some pretty good arguments for/against Tex. Personally, I’m on the fence. I hate to see the Braves get rid of Salty, but maybe he won’t be the stud we all are predicting, then again maybe he will. I’d say though, his trade value is high right now, and if he falters some, his value will obviously start to decrease. Maybe get a top of the line player for him now rather than a PTBNL later.
What to do?
Geaux Braves!!
By Colin
July 19, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
Can someone tell me why you blame BC and JS yea they put the team together but lets face they are better than what they are playing.If only Chipper wouldnt have made a little leaguer mistake we might have won that game because the next guy might have got a hit. If we dont win 3/4 against the Cards BC has to mix up things to show them how he is serious about wining.
By Lee
July 19, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Everyone seems to be focused on Chipper’s play…no one seems to care/remember that KJ booted a ball that directly led to a run or two.
True - Everyone is always down on Chipper. I would like to see where the Braves would have been without Chipper Jones for all of these years and their title runs. Does anybody honestly believe there is a player on the Braves team at present time that will be the Chipper Jones of the future on this team? - I don’t see it.
By Mackey Sasser
July 19, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Sounds like the Braves will be doing something (anything) before the deadline, at least according to Jason Stark…
Meanwhile, clubs that have talked to Atlanta say there isn’t a buyer in baseball trying to be more aggressive or more creative than the Braves. “They’re in on everybody,” says one GM. “Starters. Relievers. Bats. Older guys. Young guys. They’re heating up to do something.”
The Braves are balking at dealing Jarrod Saltalamacchia or the dynamic Yunel Escobar. But other clubs report they are willing to talk about shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and power left-hander Dan Smith.
“We’re not talking about guys at the level of a [Jeff] Francoeur or a [Brian] McCann, guys like that,” says an executive of one team. “But they’ve still got some real nice pieces to move. They’re just not gigantic pieces.”
There are indications the Braves made a run at Dmitri Young a few weeks ago, didn’t like the asking price and headed in other directions.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Coach ( I’m Only Right 90% Of The Time),
I haven’t suggested the Braves try to get top pitching prospects but now that you mention it, I think there is a way to get some without dismantling the team. I think Salty and some of the infield and outfield prospects could net some top pitching prospects.
By Salty
July 19, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
Coach As I said, it was just an opinion…from watching as well, I might add. However, despite your moniker, you are indeed perfect in every way!!!
By Interested Observer
July 19, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
From Jayson Stark:
Meanwhile, clubs that have talked to Atlanta say there isn’t a buyer in baseball trying to be more aggressive or more creative than the Braves. “They’re in on everybody,” says one GM. “Starters. Relievers. Bats. Older guys. Young guys. They’re heating up to do something.”
The Braves are balking at dealing Jarrod Saltalamacchia or the dynamic Yunel Escobar. But other clubs report they are willing to talk about shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and power left-hander Dan Smith.
“We’re not talking about guys at the level of a [Jeff] Francoeur or a [Brian] McCann, guys like that,” says an executive of one team. “But they’ve still got some real nice pieces to move. They’re just not gigantic pieces.”
There are indications the Braves made a run at Dmitri Young a few weeks ago, didn’t like the asking price and headed in other directions.
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
By 2010 who knows what their payroll situation will be. You can’t be afraid to sign a pitcher all the time. I agree, they don’t always work out. Trading away prospects for pitchers is something you can’t always do. The Braves, since 2000, haven’t shown me as an organization that they can develop pitchers effectively in the minor leagues. I don’t think anyone will argue that.
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
BossLady, indeed, the denizens always impress me with the depth and passion of their participation. Just goes to show, some folks will always enjoy and participate in intelligent conversation about the thinking man’s game (and BBQ … and Johnny Cash and lesser artists).
By TennesseePaul
July 19, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
Efrim: Grienke might not be the big answer this season, but something about that guy makes me think he could be special in the not-to-distant future. But having both Zack and Kyle on the same team would be extremely frustrating.
I’ll be honest, I was glad to see Davies pinch hitting in the 15th. I know he was supposed to then come on and pitch in the 6th if needed, but it was a sure bet that wasn’t going to happen. Davies is atrocious in relief. Absolutely miserable. I hope that, if they drop him from the rotation, they drop him to AAA or something to keep him a starter. His relief work scares the hell out of me.
Grienke’s relief work isn’t that bad looking. He’d be an interesting pick up, though I wouldn’t offer much for him.
By Greg in TN
July 19, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
Afternoon denizens…
Nasty business the past few days at the Ted with the Red Stockings coming in and sweeping in front of the home faithful. So, much in the way of the great Wile E Coyote, it’s back to the drawing board for Planet Braves at the moment. The past few years, youth has been served, but youth can also be inconsistant at times. It’s not just the youth though, these guys as a squad can’t seem to get on a roll, and that’s probably the most maddening thing to all. Does the franchise get any kick backs from the fine folks at Tums or Rolaids? (spoken with tongue firmly in cheek)
I’m happy to see the signing of the ageless wonder, Julio Franco. Will he provide the spark we need? Not by himself, but I think it’s certainly an upgrade over what we’ve got at the moment, which says something about how badly this season has gone for Thorman. It’s too bad, I like the kid, but his struggles have almost reached Andruvian proportions. Can’t crack on Andruw too bad right now, he’s raised his average 17 points since July 5th and was 3-6 in yesterday’s game, so I’m happy to see him progressing.
Really torn right now on whether Teixeira will be the best fit for this team or not. Right now the asking price from everybody is just not in line with what we are willing to give up. I’d just as soon leave Dmitri Young in DC. Don’t know if we could get Teixeira from the Lone Star state without having to give up a part of the two-headed trade bait monster that is Salty and Escobar. If we were to swing such a deal and keep our two best prospects, I’m more comfortable with it, but that’s a mighty big if.
Going back to the Julio signing, it’s really a no brainer to try since we have very little tied up in him for the rest of the season and if it does work out, we haven’t given anyone up to give this a shot.
By Choppinmama
July 19, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
One last comment on Giles - while he was here, he played while undergoing some tragic and emotionally draining personal events in his life. Add to the on-field collision with Prior (?) that kept him out for a long time, I feel you can only come to the conclusion that he was a positive, contributing member of the team.
As for being missed: who can forget the green goggles in the playoff celebration, and the shaving cream pie he bestowed on Frenchy after the grand salami walk-off? Not missed - I seriously doubt it. He was a sparkplug that put a jolt into that “business-like” clubhouse.
By TampaBrave
July 19, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this
Will,
You put your finger right on the problem with Salty playing 1st when you used the word “plugged”.
Shaun,
Thorman will never excel or even be serviceable. In this sport, you either have it or you don’t. Thorman doesn’t. Let’s move on.
For all of you who whine about Tex being a free agent after 2008, here are a few things to consider. AJ may not be here next year thus creating a huge hole as far as run production. This needs to be replaced, even if it is for one year. We don’t want to be sitting around next year wondering where we get run production from. Hopefully, Tex will be worth resigning. With Salty, you have an unknown. Looks promising, but who knows really.
For those whiners that complain that anything short of a world series is a season not worth it, I say go microwave yourself some french fries and read your “Characteristics of a Yankee Fan” book. I am proud to be a Braves fan and I am happy that, since 1991, we have been in the post season. I wish we could have won more, but I can’t control that. I say we keep winning on the main burner and rebuilding on the back burner. Habits get formed by rebuilding. Some teams seem like they are in a perpetual rebuilding cycle.
By P-Town Brave
July 19, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
Efrim
The 2 deals we need to make would bring us Griffey from Cincy and a package of Millwood and Wilson from Texas…
I really think they could be done and most certainly done w/o giving up Salty or Escobar, leaving us w/ either the possibility of trading Yunel or Edgar in the off-season or working Yunel out in LF.
I would assume we’d have to give up Brandon Jones and Matt Harrison, and maybe even Eric Campbell one way or another, but I think I’d be fine w/ that knowing that Escobar could be in our outfield and by the time Griffey is done w/ his career, Schafer will be ready to perform in Atlanta. This also allows us to keep Salty at 1b where he will play for us for a long while.
By No Freakin' Way!
July 19, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
Chipper is great! He’s a future hall of famer! The Braves wouldn’t have been in a position to win the game in the first place without his hit to tie!
He is not God! I could give a rats A$$ what Cincy writers say or anyone else in the pressbox! No outfielder is going to field the ball on one hop and get anyone who is a quarter of the way down the line waiting to see if the ball gets over Phillips glove. At the point it clears the glove, the ball is in the air another full second at least before it touches down. Add another full second before it can even one hop into an outfielders glove. From the point of making contact with the outfielders glove, probably takes over a second for the exchange of ball to throwing hand,cocking and the release. Now count one thousand one. One thousand two. Throw in the air at least a couple of seconds from the outfield. That’s a full four seconds but it’s probably more like 5 if he does everything perfectly. Then there’s a matter of accuracy.
So Chipper, who is a “safe” quarter way down the line, waiting to see if the ball is caught before breaking, isn’t going to score on a play that takes that long to develop, EVEN under perfect circumstances? Chipper can’t race to home the 67 ft that are left in under four seconds? It’s the typical Pi$$ down my back and tell me it’s raining!
He went on contact. It was not a go on contact play. It probably was a, go on contact if it’s a ground ball, play. It wasn’t a grounder. It was a foul up. It was a baserunning blunder.
I don’t blame Chipper for the loss. I didn’t blame him yesterday and won’t blame him tomorrow. It was a continuation of the TEAM not playing sound, fundamental baseball the last few days. I can live with that, don’t like it, but it’s baseball. It’s a long season.
DOB, a man crush on Chipper shouldn’t get in the way of reality. If you don’t want to comment on HOSS, then don’t. If you think he’s getting too much grief for this, then say so. Tell everyone he deserves some slack because of his contributions. That I would agree with.
But geez man, don’t justify the play. It was not a heads up play if it is made by Chipper, or a rookie! It was a baserunning blunder, no matter who made it.
By TennesseePaul
July 19, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
DOB: Speaking of lesser artists… Did you pick up the new Interpol yet?
By Chop Chop
July 19, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
I consider myself a “thinking man”, but if I had to choose one sport to follow and I could never watch or participate in another, I’d pick football. It’s in my blood. However, baseball provides the ability to second-guess so many aspects of a game that I end up blogging on here most days. I’d never do that for football, basketball, hockey or anything else.
A prime example of that is Chipper getting doubled off third yesterday. I can believe that it was a boneheaded baserunning play, but even if it was, it followed on the heels of a very savvy baserunning move (stealing third standing up with nobody out). I can mention that the Reds had 5 infielders on that play and that Chipper was the winning run. I can say that he could afford to be close to third and still score on a clean single, but DOB can point out that Griffey was playing in right-center and believe that Junior would have had Chipper beat at the plate by at least 5 feet. I could come back and mention that the ball was smoked and that Griffey wouldn’t have been in a good throwing position to make an accurate throw because that ball was hit so hard. The odds are that we’re both right, but we’re both wrong because we don’t have actual proof.
Ultimately, the only thing that matters is that Brandon Phillips made a great play. The Braves were a solitary run away from winning that game for four more innings after that play and couldn’t score it, so all of our second-guessing, while fun, is pointless. Nevertheless, it’ll happen all over again tonight, and the next day, and the one after that. God, I hate this game, but if football is my old lady, baseball is my tempestuous mistress.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
You have to take contracts into consideration when considering a trade. Salty is going to be cheaper for longer than Tex, that’s a fact.
Baseball America rated Salty as the 18th best prospect in baseball before 2006 and the 36th best before this season.
Hitting prospects that they rank that high have a great chance to make something of themselves in the big leagues. I don’t have an exact figure but my guess would be 70-80 percent become above average major leaguers at their positions.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/26983.html
Here are Salty’s stats in the minors through the end of last year: .273 AVG/.370 OBP/.448 SLG in 1229 AB. And he put up those numbers between the ages of 18-21, which means he was probably younger than a lot of those guys, especially later in his minor league career. Not sure where you get his minor league numbers only show that he’s a streaky hitter.
Compare his minor league numbers to a guy like Jason Varitek’s (.247/.342/.400) and Salty’s actually look more impressive, especially when you consider Varitek was older when he went through the minors.
Yes, if Tex was signed for two or three more seasons, I would say it’s a no-brainer.
And I actually agree that the Braves should trade Salty at some point because I think they would get more value out of trading him as a catcher than keeping him as a firstbaseman.
By AZBravoFan
July 19, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
How many times in the last few weeks have we seen a Braves pitcher get a tough second out with a man on third, only to cough up the run(s) to the next batter with a mistake? Smoltz used to do that all the time in his younger days. It’s really maddening. Meanwhile the offense keeps stranding those same runners and finding ways to not score those big runs. (I’ll concede that the 10th was a fluke yesterday. 1 foot on Chipper’s double and it’s a walk-off and 1 inch on Frenchy’s….) Just seems opposing pitchers are getting away with way more mistakes than our pitchers are.
By BamaBrave
July 19, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
Sublime eloquence, Chop Chop…
“…if football is my old lady, baseball is my tempestuous mistress…”
If I wasn’t going to have my ashes shot out of a cannon into Charleston harbor, I’d have that on my tombstone.
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
Well said, Chop Chop.
No Freakin’ Way, you’re wrong. But that’s OK.
By Dave
July 19, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
any word on who gets sent out to make room for Julio?
By Lew
July 19, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
Y’all-I’d like to cite some facts and figures on Texiera. I’m not in favor of trading for him for several reasons. First, I keep hearing about how he hits for average. It’s not so. His career BA is only .284 (which is about what he’s hitting right now). He strikes out a lot-117 or MORE K in each of his first four years. He is injured a lot and misses games. In three of his five seasons he has missed at least 15 games, 27 so far this season. He only has 13 HR and 44 RBI so far this season, way below his usual power numbers (and keep in mind he has played in the Ultimate Hitter’s Park in Arlington his whole career-won’t be that way in Hotlanta). He makes $6.4 million this season, is 5th year arbitration eligible after this year and will be due a raise to well over $10mil in the coming arbitration. He will make well more than $15 million (maybe $18-20 mil) after next year as a free agent. I don’t think we can afford him. Now, maybe the best reason for just saying NO to Tex-Kala Ka’aihue. Kala is now at Myrtle Beach (high A). Last season combined between Rome and Myrtle Beach he hit .281 (.329 at Rome) with 28 HR and 80 RBI in 120 games, with a .407 OBP. He struck out 82 times and walked 115 times. This year at MB, he is hitting .291, with 20HR and 55 RBI in 83 games, with a .410 OBP, 86K and 52BB. Kala is the future-not Texiera. Tex is way too expensive a quick fix with this kid on the horizon. Use Salty to bring pitching if you must trade him.
By Hammer'd The Braves
July 19, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
At the least the thought of trading for Teixeira doesn’t induce the eye-rolling that comes with some of the trades floated here. A season and a half of the guy gives Francoeur and McCann time to mature into middle-of-the-order bats, if they’re going to, and at the end of 2008, the Braves should have a better idea of when Kala is going to be ready, if at all. They can make the decision then on whether to pursue Teixeira.
Braves are going to need a veteran thumper at 1B or LF next year from somewhere, anyway. A 2008 lineup that averages about six minutes of ML experience, like some of you guys want, will make most of you wish it was 2007 again.
By bwash21
July 19, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Don’t know if it’s been on here yet…but this from Jayson Stark, ESPN….Meanwhile, clubs that have talked to Atlanta say there isn’t a buyer in baseball trying to be more aggressive or more creative than the Braves. “They’re in on everybody,” says one GM. “Starters. Relievers. Bats. Older guys. Young guys. They’re heating up to do something.”
The Braves are balking at dealing Jarrod Saltalamacchia or the dynamic Yunel Escobar. But other clubs report they are willing to talk about shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and power left-hander Dan Smith.
“We’re not talking about guys at the level of a [Jeff] Francoeur or a [Brian] McCann, guys like that,” says an executive of one team. “But they’ve still got some real nice pieces to move. They’re just not gigantic pieces.”
There are indications the Braves made a run at Dmitri Young a few weeks ago, didn’t like the asking price and headed in other directions.
By Rick Roberts
July 19, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
Great blogs today! I’m a Brandon Jones fan, too. Thorman will be traded since he has no options and someone would pick him up cheap. Davies just has to go—he does have a ‘10-cent’ head! But, he would bring value. Martin Prado and Blanco for Dotel?? Thorman to Toronto—home to Canada. He has a lot of potential, still. Jo Jo Reyes should stay up—he’s coming around and has a very good arm. Harrison has to stay down until he develops his curve ball. I like the idea of Texeira as long as he could be signed long-term. I like Jermaine Dye, too—he can hit with power which Diaz cannot do. Maybe Davies for Dye and try to sign him. Brandon Jones with replace A. Jones next year—another ‘Jones’ boy!! JS has some options, but believe Thorman and Davies will have to go. Prado and Blanco have value and KC needs speed and a new 2B with potential. As for Yates, Paronto, and Villareal, they could go in some deals, too. Will be interesting to see what JS does, but I think he will make two trades, at least.
By CAR3BOOGIE
July 19, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
DOB, I would love to hear your opinion on projecting the success of the Braves “Trade Bait”.
Salty and Escobar, to this point look like long term productive players. The middle infield prospects seem plentiful. Who else projects as a long term productive player?
What is possibility of moving McCann to 1st to save his knees? He is too good of a hitter to have a shortened career due to the rigors of catching.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
With Salty, you have an unknown. Looks promising, but who knows really.
You really believe this? I know he’s not guaranteed to be anything but I don’t know of anyone (scouts, execs, players, coaches, fans, managers) who would say he is unlikely to be a good major league hitter.
Yes, we know Teixeira is likely to be one of the better hitters in the game for the next several seasons. But we also know Salty is likely to be a pretty good hitter for the next decade and is likely going to be much cheaper than Tex for at least about half of that time.
Like I said, I agree with trading Salty because I think he has more value to the Braves that way. And I don’t even think a Teixeira trade would be that bad. I just think it’s ridiculous to assume there is a 50-50 chance Salty’s going to be a flop. Yes, he could be, but my guess are the chances of that are a lot lower than you seem to think.
And Thorman apparently “had it” throughout his minor league career. He could be a disappointment but it’s still too early to say he’s never going to amount to anything. It doesn’t look like he’s a star but he could be a decent platoon guy.
By Julio Smulio
July 19, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
Franco-The Complainer
I’m sure there are some Mets players that feel Franco complains too much.
He probably complains when Reyes doesn’t run out ground balls.
He probably complains when he feels that some personnel aren’t playing up to their potential.
He probably complains when he thinks some guys may not be preparing properly for the game.
One man’s complainer is another man’s teacher and mentor.
What may be looked upon in New York as a pain in the butt may be looked upon elsewhere as valuable mentoring and coaching.
I think that is what Julio will bring back to Atlanta. He wasn’t respected in the Mets locker room, but he sure is in the Braves locker room. Julio’s return doesn’t mean the Braves are going to suddenly look like the Tigers, but having another respected figure to help mentor and coach the young guys on this team can’t hurt.
The New York papers said, he had some big hits as a Met. He may be hitting only .200 but with the game on the line I would still rather have Julio up there than a number of other guys who have a higher BA. It’s not about what you’re hitting, it’s about when you get the hits.
By Luther
July 19, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
Yeah, we should have left Smoltz in for 9 innings in his first game back from the DL, when our whole season depends on whether or not Smoltz is healthy. Pete even mentioned Smoltz starting to walk around the mound and take more time between pitches in the 7th. He thought that would be it for Smoltz as well.
By Brian20
July 19, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Anyone that criticizes Chipper, knows nothing about baseball. He is the heart and soul of this team, if he was not playing we would be 10 games out of 1st right now. Get a clue.
By Ron Roberts
July 19, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Shaun… “your guess” is just that, then, my friend… and what Mark Teixeira does a major league hitter is far more a certainty than anybody’s “guess” about Saltalamacchia.
And it’s not that I don’t take into account what Teixeira’s contract is, but I do take into account the Braves need to replce Andruw Jones’ production in the lineup next year and Teixeira answers that call, and I believe he’ll be cheaper next year than Andruw would be, right?
There, we saved some money. Great.
I say that Saltalamacchia came up a streaky hitter because his first minor league season he hit .239. His next season, he hit .272. The third year, he hit .314. The next year, he hit .230.
I’ll follow that with his torrid start in the bigs, this year… his first month up, he hits .313, the next he hits .327. This month, he’s hitting .222. That’s streaky, bro. It just is.
By JasonInMaine
July 19, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Lew,
“His career BA is only .284”…
That’s pretty good for a power hitting, gold glove 1B, is it not? Also, he is currently hitting .300 for the year.
You make some good points, but Kala will not be ready to make a significant contribution next year. Year after that? Maybe. If so, don’t try and resign Tex. You have this year, next year, and subsequent years covered.
Again, I am not arguing trading Salty for him, but per Rosenthal’s article; the Braves are unwilling to include Escobar in a trade for him or anyone else. That’s the piece that I am not sure I agree on. I agree on holding onto Salty unless some team wants to trade young pitcher under team control such as a Snell (and a little more).
Again, if they are unwilling to trade Escobar for someone like Tex, I have to wonder if they are planning on trading Renteria in the off-season. If they are unwilling to trade Escobar for a significant piece this year, they must be planning on giving him a full-time job in the near future. I don’t see that being at 2B.
Regards,
Jason
By Efrim
July 19, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
The Mets are just 6-9 in July, but Atlanta has been too streaky to capitalize - since June 19, it has recorded three losing streaks of at least three games and three winning streaks of at least three games.
That is depressing.
By Coach ( I'm Only Right 90% Of The Time)
July 19, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
Jose Ascanio is probably the odd man out when Julio Franco is activated.
By BravesFanInRockies
July 19, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
I like Kala, too, Lew. I just wonder if he’ll be ready by ‘09 … which is why you pick up Tex now (even if you lose him — for two high draft picks, mind you — after next season).
This team will need another bopper in the middle of the lineup with Andruw almost certainly leaving.
Whether Tex is on the way or not, DOB’s “market correction” point is well-taken. With Harris playing back to form, I’d love to see KJ and Escobar platooning in the leadoff spot and put Matt (the hit man) Diaz in left field every day. The guy just keeps raking. And Lord knows, the offense could use some help.
By DAP
July 19, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
im also on the fence on the texiera for salty idea. ive been saying i dont want to trade salty OR escobar, but im just not sure about this.
as good as it seems salty will be, i think we can all agree that he wont be ready to bat cleanup next season. if andruw leaves, as bad as he has been this season, we have a hole in the lineup there. i really dont think any of the other young guys are ready for cleanup either. (maybe more ready than andruw this season, but thats another blog…)
we would be getting extremly good offense at a critical place in our lineup(from a guy who is always a second-half player) and good defense at 1st.
then in 2009, who knows? the hawiian kid might be ready, or maybe we will have money to give tex.
im not saying DO IT RIGHT NOW…but it is something to think hard about. i think if we had him we WOULD make the playoffs, and do really well. if i was JS it would be hard to lay off this one.
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
No Freakin’ Way!,
Again, the average lead off 3B is probably a good 6-10 feet. If Chipper froze on the line-drive, and the play lasted about a second and a half at most, there’s no way he could have got back. No matter how fast a player is, he can’t run ten feet faster than a major leaguer with a decent arm can throw a ball from the secondbase position to third.
But, again, I guess Chipper should have just assumed no contact that could have got him home and no wild pitch and just stayed on the bag the whole time.
No offense and 9th-inning bad luck lost that game.
By Brooklyn Brawler
July 19, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
Reading the Star-ledger and came across this. Any truth to it. Says the Braves are working on a deal for a lefty out of Texas (CJ Wilson) Also mentioned we are looking at Grienke from KC. Remember this is the Ledger so sift through the Yankee and Mets crap. Here’s the whole article:
YANKEES BUZZ
Even as they dangle their own relievers in an attempt to upgrade their offense/bench/first-base situation with a player such as the Dodgers’ Wilson Betemit, the Yankees are looking around at available relievers. The Yankees, along with the Braves, Dodgers, Diamondbacks and Cubs, have expressed interest in Kansas City right-hander Zack Greinke, a pitcher who could also serve as a starter if they were to need one in a pinch. The idea would be to unload somebody such as Kyle Farnsworth or Scott Proctor, but replace him with somebody like Greinke, who might be a fresh arm for the stretch run.
METS BUZZ
The Mets would like to add a starting pitcher, but they’re interested in only a clear upgrade over what they have — a big-splash name such as Houston’s Roy Oswalt or Florida’s Dontrelle Willis, neither of whom is currently available. They’d like to pry Javier Vazquez away from the White Sox, but the Sox are more interested in dealing Jose Contreras, whose diminished velocity has hurt his appeal. They’ve asked about Dye, but as long as they believe Moises Alou can come back soon, they aren’t aiming for a big bat. GM Omar Minaya is hunting for a power relief arm and might do some more tinkering with the bench, which has already seen Marlon Anderson come in to replace Julio Franco this month.
AROUND THE HORN
The Braves, looking for left-handed relief help, are working on a deal with Texas for lefty C.J. Wilson. … Greinke isn’t the only available Royals reliever. The Cubs, Dodgers and Brewers have expressed interest in former Yankee Octavio Dotel, and lefty Jimmy Gobble is drawing interest from several places. … The Reds believe they will be able to get something for former Met and Yankee David Weathers, who’s been their closer this year and might be attractive to teams frustrated by the asking prices for relievers such as Dotel and Texas’ Eric Gagne. … The Mariners are looking for starting pitchers, and were hoping Yankees lefty Andy Pettitte might be available. But the Yankees aren’t giving up on their season, and have no plans to deal Pettitte.
— Dan Graziano
By Bob, Journalist
July 19, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
Paladin’s immediate response to my earlier post included his statement that my including his name in the post was another of my extremely lowlife blows. There was no intent to inflict any lowlife blows, extreme or otherwise … however, I don’t see how my including the name “Mr. Hull” could, in any context, be so considered.
I was sincerely amused by his reference to FDR’s dog … and appreciated the FDR - George M connection … however I didn’t understand the connection between the dog and George M.
I was also as surprised as I was impressed with his discernment that Most Honorable and Bob Journalist might be two personas for the same person … while it is certainly something to which neither persona would never admit, forewarned is forearmed and rest assured that we will both try harder in the future not to allow such penetration of our masks.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
SJA See my earlier—for now. But, 40lbs of bootleather? Now, that’s impressive. Probably about what Goliath said to David, btw.
By 22oz
July 19, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Did the season end yesterday with a sweep from the Reds? If it did, why did we sign Julio? Does this mean i can’t get my Chipper Jones statue on August 16th?
Too much doom and gloom from 3 games out of 162 (1.8%). Someone had to lose yesterday, and it no more means the end of the season for the Braves than it does a playoff appearance for the Reds.
By N8
July 19, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
“The Braves were a solitary run away from winning that game for four more innings after that play and couldn’t score it, so all of our second-guessing, while fun, is pointless. Nevertheless, it’ll happen all over again tonight, and the next day, and the one after that.”
I hope when you say it will happen “all over again tonight, and the next day, and the one after that.”, that you’re talking about the second guessing, NOT the Braves failing to score the winning run.
:-)
By Chipper
July 19, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
Uh, thanks.
By Bobby's Cox
July 19, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
ABOUT CORMIER:
BOTH HIS STARTS BETWEEN DL STINTS CAME AGAINST THE CUBS.
PERHAPS THE CUBS HAVE HIS NUMBER? WE’LL NEVER KNOW UNLESS HE GETS THE STARTS HE DESERVES AGAINST 2-3 OTHER TEAMS…HE DID RUN INTO A HOT SORIANO.
I THINK THEY SHOULD NICKNAME HIM “THE CAT”
HOW MANY MORE CHANCES IS THE GUY GOING TO GET?
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
First of all, your are judging Salty solely on batting average. You ignore control of the strikezone (BB), age, power (2B and HR), defense. Second, you are ignoring sample size. How can you judge a hitter, especially a young one, by one month’s worth of games? Third, you aren’t taking into account injuries or adjustment time when looking at his minor league batting average only.
Mark Teixeira is going to be a top-notch hitter next year and Salty is going to be an above average hitter next year. Both are equally as likely.
And it’s not just about replacing someone’s production in the lineup next year or what Tex is likely to do this year or next year. It’s also about him being here for this season and next and that’s probably it. Salty is locked up for a while longer. And he provides good production for a lot less money.
Also, they could wait and trade Salty for more in the off-season, I think, and use the Andruw or Tex money on either a good CF or 1B or P or LF or some combination of those.
Again, I don’t think a Salty for Tex trade would be bad. I’m just saying the Braves have to consider all the possibilities. It’s not a no-brainer. And it’s not as if is a huge mystery as to what Salty is likely to do.
The chances of him being a flop are extremely slim, based on what he’s shown through his pro career (not just batting average) and where the scouts rank him.
By Chop Chop
July 19, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
N8, maybe my subconscious is trying to tell us something.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
bobj Then, why don’t you put your name on here, cowardly lion. BTW, are you in the Lions? No, you are more the Shriner type. That way, in normal dress, you can ride around on those tiny bicycles. And they, like me, do not give a whit that you have “Journalist” behind your name. They just care if you are a good clown. And I bet you are!
And speaking of “immediate response”: Did it take you over 24hrs to line up a ghost writer. Probably the same “guy” who writes Hillary’s stuff.
By DAP
July 19, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
jimmy gobble must be a turkish guy.
By No Freakin' Way!
July 19, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
Shaun
If my guy gets no further than an 6 foot lead off 3rd when the pitch is delivered, then we’re going to have a talk! The third baseman isn’t holding him like a first baseman would be. One more thing. Ten feet from the bag on a throw from second is a dive back. Thats it! But that still isn’t the point. Let me back up, Shaun. If he had a ten foot lead and waits to see the ball clear Phillips glove he STILL scores. These superhuman, cut the ball off from an angle, right yourself and throw a strike to home from the outfield, plays not withstanding.
This is my last post on the matter. I won’t even respond if I’m slammed in rebuttal, so fire away.
So here is the scenario. Chipper is hitting. He hits the exact same shot Francouer hits, only Phillips doesn’t come up with it. The outfield is positioned exactly where it was on the play. Chipper has to get rid of his bat and sprint for first. Can the right fielder throw him out a first? This isn’t a Wickman running. This isn’t Johnny Estrada running. It’s Chipper with at least average speed. So this is one of those plays where the outfielder throws a hitter out at first? How many times you see that a year?
Let’s say yesterday Chipper halted with his lead 10 feet off waiting to see if the ball cleared, and he doesn’t have to get rid of the bat. In essence he’s much further down the basepath when the ball clears Phillips glove than he would have been down the basepath running to first after he hit the ball.
Oh yeah, first base is a much closer throw than home, and you only have to beat the runner, not apply a tag.
So you think Chipper is thrown out from the outfield at first on that play if he’s hitting with two out and the winning run on third?
If you believe he can be thrown out at home on the play, then you have to believe Chipper gets thrown out at first on a shot he hits that finds grass in the outfield.
No way. No day.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
bobj SJA is using bad language again. Quickly—condemn him!
By David O'Brien
July 19, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Yes, the Braves are looking under every rock for a lefty reliever, and Wilson certainly fits the bill. I’d guess they’ll get something done soon with a lefty reliever.
Not sure they’ll get a starter, though.
(and by the way, Dan Graziano is reliable and a good friend of mind. See, I don’t dislike all NY papers.)
NEW BLOG IS UP
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Here’s a quote from Coco Crisp I found cool:
“Are the Yankees back in it? They were never out of it.”
I think it does a little bit to help show that players probably don’t relax and take it easy even when they have a huge lead as a few us fans may think. Players know they better work their a—es off to the last out of the season.
By AZBravoFan
July 19, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
OK, let’s quit banging on Chipper and ask why Jose Ascanio, who was blowing 95 mph gas by Brandon Phillips, would speed up his bat with a hanging breaking ball. Ditto Tyler Yates to Hatteburg and Rafael Soriano to Dunn. Have these guys been getting advice from Mark Wohlers?
By Shaun
July 19, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
No Freakin’ Way!,
I have no idea if Chipper would have been thrown out. All I know is it wasn’t bad base-running on that play. It was a fluke play.
By Doug
July 19, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Get Stanton as a throw in with a Griffey deal.
By Lee
July 19, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
Choppinmama
Sorry but I did not keep the articles stored away here and there on this. And I said reading a little between the lines here and there on things said. It was not like a main headline article on this or anything. I will reword it to the words “I don’t miss him”. Just not and never was a Giles fan. I was a Roachy fan. The Braves apparently did not think Giles was worth the money either unless I am missing something there also. On the other hand Roachy was expendable also.
By N8
July 19, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
“N8, maybe my subconscious is trying to tell us something.”
I hope not, but I suspect it could.
:-(
By Elements
July 19, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
More on Julio Franco -
By JOHN DELCOS THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original publication: July 19, 2007) SAN DIEGO - That Julio Franco found work with the Atlanta Braves isn’t surprising.
What was surprising, however, were the lack of references, especially when it came to the “clubhouse leadership” issue.
Manager Willie Randolph said Franco should get more playing time with the Braves, and the reason he didn’t with the Mets was a .200 average.
“If you play, you have to produce. That clubhouse stuff is overrated,” said Randolph, who volunteered the information unsolicited.
Jose Valentin offered up that Franco was a less than eager participant in the club’s pregame stretching.
However, what irked some players was Franco wouldn’t hesitate to get in the face of some of the younger players about doing their jobs when he was hitting .200 with one homer with the Mets.
“To be a leader for me, it’s not enough to talk all the time,” Valentin said. “You have to go out and do it yourself.”
Franco, who will turn 49 in August, said he wants to play until he’s 50. He also said before leaving the Mets that “I can still hit.”
Franco is a 24-year veteran with a .298 career average with 2,576 hits.Hmmm, interesting. Hopefully Franco can find his swing again and actually help the Braves win a few games.
By Paladin, Miscreant
July 19, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
I’m going to the new blog. I won’t be hard to find.
By Lee
July 19, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
DOB / Shaun
You could spot the Red Sox a 12 game lead at the start of the season and the Yankees would still be the odds on favorite to win that division.
By TampaBrave
July 19, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You are an android dude. There’s a big difference between promising and proven. Stats in minors -vs- Stats in American League….hmmm, let me think..
DAP,
Your stats you quoted, while true, are deceiving. Tex has averaged 154 over his last 4 seasons. Yes he had an injury this year, but he has apparently recovered. I would say he is not injury prone. BTW, he walked 4 times against Oakland the other night.
By steve
July 20, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this
Escobar, Salty, and Davies should be untouchable as they cannot be replaced;we have other talent in the minors and one player will not make a difference for us to win the world series this season so lets not sacrifice the future by trading away our best prospects; if the players we have now will play up to their potential we would be in 1st place.
By dan
July 21, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
TRADE DAVIES NOW! TRADE DAVIES NOW!