Braves

By Lee

July 9, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

Whatever changes or trades the Braves make, I am sure they will be the right ones. Not going to worry or speculate on who goes and stays or if a trade is even made. This team is in it for the long haul this year so anything is possible. Looks like this is going to be a good division and wild card race for the remainder of the season. I said a week back if the Braves could get within 2 games of the Mets prior to the all-star break everything would be looking upward. The offense has really come around lately to help the pitching.

By Michael, Ex-Sports Editor

July 9, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

Good road trip by the Bravos - with a little luck, they could have been 11 - 2. Just what the doctor ordered.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

The way the Braves come out of the break will be crucial, I think.

The Braves play 20 out of their first 23 games out of the break against teams playing .500 or worse. They then play three-and-three on the road against the Mets and Phillies. That 23-game stretch out of the break could be the Braves’ chance to not only catch the Mets, but surpass them and maybe even pad a lead.

Look who the Braves face out of the All-Star break:

Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, St. Louis, San Francisco, Arizona, Houston, Colorado. NOTE: .500 or better teams in BOLD

Look who the Mets face out of the All-Star break:

Cincinnati, San Diego, L.A. Dodgers, Pittsburgh, Washington, Milwaukee, Chicago Cubs. NOTE: .500 or better teams in BOLD

For the rest of the season…

The Braves play a grand total of 22 games against teams playing above .500 baseball, and a large portion of those (9) are against the Mets. The Braves have 73 games left to play.

The Mets play 35 games against teams playing above .500. They have 75 games left to play.

I kinda think the Braves could stand pat with what they have and win this division, really.

The head-scratcher, though, is, my GOD, which Kyle Davies is the real Kyle Davies?

The dude out-pitched Greg freaking Maddux last night! Huh?? So which is the fluke? About a third of his starts are good, the rest duds. So, the question is, can we get by with Smoltz, Hudson, James, Carlyle and Davies? Will Carlyle continue to shine and will Kyle Davies ever be consistently decent or even, gasp, good?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

July 9, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Did you know that back in the heyday of the Dodgers, Walter Alston never asked for a player from another team? He preferred home grown talent.

It is a fine line to decide who should stay and who should go when you speak of the future.

If only Kyle Davis could pitch every game like he did last night. He was much more aggressive and stopped trying to be cute and just challenged hitters.

By John Bama

July 9, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

Agree that there is no sense speculating on who they may or may not get. However, I do think the division is there for the taking and that adding a arm to stabalize the rotation would be a great step in winning the thing. I just hope that whatever decision is made it is made both for this season and the long haul. We are in for a good second half I think.

By BamaBrave

July 9, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

I’ve said it before…we wouldn’t be so desperate for another starter if our current #2 guy wasn’t so inconsistent. I know he’s trying, but c’mon. Since April, he’s been mediocre, with frustrating flashes of brilliance.

And maybe I didn’t see all of Andruw’s thoughts on the team at the All-Star break…but I think it’s cheeky of him to highlight starting pitching as the most urgent need. Maybe he thinks he’s turned the corner and emerged from his mega-slump, but I’m not convinced…yet.

All in all, however, we’re just two back and over .500. It sure beats last year.

By Renegator

July 9, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

DOB: I’m trying to pull up the archived blog for this past weekend and it can’t find it. What’s going on?

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

One thing that DOB didn’t mention is the Braves’ schedule. I know they lost some games to Washington but the schedule didn’t give them a break in the first half—between tough teams and traveling—yet they are still only two back at the break.

We could see a second-half surge like we are used to from Bobby Cox led Braves teams.

By MEB

July 9, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

DOB… Will Smoltz make the trip to San Fran for the All Star game even though he won’t be playing? The player introductions are always one of my favorite parts of the entire weekend. Always nice to see a bunch of Tomahawks toeing the chalk line. It’s criminal that Edgar is not there and without that hard fall Chipper would have been a lock at third base. I think Soriano used in a closer role is definitely All Star material, so maybe next year.

So its fish tacos in San Diego what is the culinary delight in San Fran? One thing I remember well from my visit there is fresh sourdough bread. WOW!!!

By Jim Pierce

July 9, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe im saying this, but I think the Braves need to stay pat, with possibly one exception. We do need another starting pitcher. With Smoltzie’s shoulder in question, I believe that will be an issue before the season is out. I have confidence in Davie, and James. And I believe Carlyle is a tough customer….and I love his grit. Offensively, I think we are fine. I like the Johnson/Escobar platoon….. and the Harris/Diaz platoon. Giving Salty playing time at first is also a plus, although Thorman needs to learn to make contact without trying to hit the ball into the next county. Why we still have Chris Woodward on the roster is beyond me. He is NOT an option to back up Chipper. And Chad Paronto needs to go…… its time to bring the young pitching talent up and take a look also. Im very optimistic about the 2nd half.

By raindawg722

July 9, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

The only thing that I would like to see in return for any of our young position players is young pitchers and that probably won’t happen because no one who has the pitching equivalent of a Salty or a Escobar is going to let them go for anything. By continuing to cultivate young talent at the big league level, we can free up payroll to address positions of need in the offseason (such as starting pitching). Right now, we would probably pay a premium for mediocre starting pitching that may or may not help us get to the postseason anyway. I would prefer to take our chances with what we have rather than mortgage the future. Now, a Daryl Ward-type for the bench would be a welcome edition. On the other hand, JS has been pretty shrewd in the past so if he did make a trade for a starter, I feel confident that it would not be a mortgage-the-future type deal.

By Jim

July 9, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

Andruw (with his .206 avg. and his “I’m a pull hitter period and I try and pull the ball no matter what” hard-headiness) has a lot of dang gall saying we need a starting pitcher. We need a productive clean-up hitter too! I guess three good games in a row made him cocky.

By Chase

July 9, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

I think we only need to look for a Veteran #4 Type Starter this way we won’t have to give up Salty & Escobar.

Maybe it costs us Prado & Thorman or someone else in the Minors.

We just need someone to keep us IN Games not be an ACE!

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

BRAVES WIN! METS LOSE! MAGIC NUMBER IS 77!

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Forgive me for bringing up “old” business, but the blog on which it would have been more appropriate, mercifully and finally, went away.

I read through and saw where BossLady offered an apology to the blog. I emphasize that it was to the blog, not me. I still thought it was quite classy. For my part, I offer to the lady my apologies for my un-gentlemanly utterences and suggest this: Let’s not be “friends”, but maybe non-speaking acquaintances who just blog away. Does that work for you? No reply necessary.

Now to Lew. I notice where he made several comments to me—before I left—that I didn’t see. First of all, sir, we were blogging out of our minds, basically saying the first thing that came to mind trying to set the record. My remark about the “envelope full of money” was an attempt(a poor one, obviously)at “satire” only and was not intended to indicate that you are mercenary. To the contrary, I understand that you have been very generous with your talents. I offer my sincere apology for—inadvertenly—indicating otherwise.

As for my re-inventing myself on here: I have a friend, a lurker, who has been on here forever although his last post was AARON SUX. He could have, and has, kept me informed about the various “personalities” on here. As for whether I have passed this way before, that—in the vernacular of PS 8—is for me to know and you to find out. Good day, sir.

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Gil, i saw the ESPN replay of the game and agree with you that Kyle seemed more aggressive … not quite Buddy Carlyle like, but less mechanical and with more confidence … maybe it was just what I wanted to see, but see it I did.

Personally, I rather hope they don’t look at the records of the teams they play coming of the break.

I don’t remember Bobby’s exact words, but I was somewhat amused when I read his comments of the last of the ninth … words to the effect that Wickman was pitching pretty well, they just hit it away from the defenders; suggesting perhaps that he was a bit unlucky.

Or, was he saying that Bob was bested and they did what they were trying/supposed to do?

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

JimPierce… I was with ya on just about everything ya said til ya ditched Chad Paronto. He’s given up two earned runs since June 1.

That’s 17.2 innings pitched.

16 hits.

4 walks.

3 runs (2 earned)

He had a decent April, a horrible May, and a lights-out June and looks fairly good so far in July. I’d say his outing Saturday wasn’t stellar, but that inning featured an error, too.

By La Jolla Dawg

July 9, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

I was fortunate enough to be in attendance at both the Friday and Sunday game, it was great to see the Braves win, though I could have done without Wickman’s near implosion last night. My question is why is Scott Thorman on the team? He made some good defensive plays last night, but the guy is useless at the plate—why not unload him? DOB any thoughts?

By lostlover

July 9, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

DOB, What’s up with the story from Ken Rosenthal that the Braves are interested in Dimitri Young?

Wouldn’t it be better to save our prospects for a starting pitcher?

By journalist jimmy smith

July 9, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

andruw needs a rest and will get one. andruw’s seat on the cable car to the all-star game was taken by another player. and andruw must be reading this blog since andruw advocates getting another pitcher. still, with decent production from the clean-up spot in the first half the braves would likely enjoy a lead at this time and there would be less clamor for another starter. it is good to see andruw hitting the ball again.

it has been brought to jimmy smith’s attention that an ugly blogger is posting on another ajc blog and taking some liberties with this journalist. that blogger is here, too, but cowers in fear of being discovered by dob and banned again. oh, well, the contributions made here by the ugly blogger are insignificant no matter which of the several names is being used. sadly, a few engage this blogger - even dob. imagine being banned from a baseball blog! that will make a momma proud.

and now, baseball … wicky was all red in the face again last night. why is this? swallow a chaw on a hard hit ball back through the middle? wicky has made great contributions to this team already. let’s hope wicky will be ready after the break.

now, songwriting has become tiresome for this journalist but suddenly and without warning another song popped into this journalist’s head last night. this song will be debuted here later today.

now, toes … when chipper slud into second base last night it appeared a toe injury had been sustained. thankfully, three pair of socks cushioned the impact and the toe(s) was/were not injured. not sure how many - could be just a rumor.

now, the old blog will not load today. journalist was unable to catch up on last night’s posts. not a good idea to go a thousand posts again - makes this blog load like estrada running the bases.

and how are the former braves doing? some research is in order. one thing journalist knows for sure, hariaz in left has sure improved over langerhans in left.

and now, getting it out of journalist’s system early … jimmy smith called to the songbirds this morning and a most disagreeable little bird appeared. disheveled and dirty and with bad manners. more on this later.

good luck to mccann in the all-star game. mccann is a representative that will make this team proud.

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

raindawg722,

The challenge of any GM this time of year is to determine which possible trades would likely get the team over the hump and is a trade likely to get the team far enough over the hump that it is worth giving up a Salty or an Escobar.

I heard Joe Simpson and John Sciambi talking about this a week or two ago. They made the point that if your team had the next ARod in the farm system buy you could trade him for a guy that would get you to the World Series, every GM would do it because you don’t know when you will have another shot at a World Series.

Of course the challenging part of being a GM is nothing is guaranteed—you don’t know which players are going to be superstars and you don’t know if a player can get you over the hump.

By Alan

July 9, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, I agree with you about the Braves’ chances even if they stand pat. Every team in the division is flawed, and I honestly believe the Braves are “less flawed” than the rest, including the Mets, whose rotation is pretty much in tatters right now. Who’d have thought that the Mets’ best starter in the first half would be John Maine? That photo of Jose Contreras (doesn’t he resemble Rafael Soriano, at least in that shot?) on the ajc.com sports page probably is prescient. Now that Buehrle has signed his extension (14M a year for 4 years?!), look for a mini-bidding war for Contreras and Vasquez (who has 2 consecutive complete-game wins). I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see the Mets trade for Contreras, so he can join his buddy, El Duque. I’d like to see the Braves make a “minor move” - a guy like Zack Greinke would be nice - but I’m hoping beyond hope that they don’t mortgage the future for Contreras (who’s also as old or even older than El Duque: 40+ for sure) or Jon Garland or any guy like that. The Braves should NOT trade Yunel OR Salty now or in the offseason. Those guys are going to be superstars - it would be a sin to trade either one of them for mediocre middle-of-the-rotation types (Morris, Armas, etc.). The only way I’d even consider parting with one of them is if Smoltz is not able to return on schedule from the DL. Even then, I’d have to be overwhelmed, and there’s nobody available who’s even remotely “overwhelming.” Kevin Millwood? Yeah, I’d probably go for him, but only for a mid-level prospect or two. Escobar and Salty must stay!

By k62

July 9, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Andruw may have a bad average, but his RBI’s and runs scored are respectable.

By Miller

July 9, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Yeah it sure looks like things are shaping up for a title run. I am hoping JS waits a couple rounds of the pitching rotation before deciding whether or not we need another starter. If Kyle would just trust his stuff day in and day out he will be ok. Sure he might get ruffed up a couple of times by really good hitting teams but there are not too many of those in the NL. Please JS don’t trade away our future for a rent a pitcher. Salty, Escobar and even KJ I believe are some of the faces of the next Braves dynasty.

By Lee

July 9, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Renegator -

I could not pull up the previous blog either. Not sure what the deal is.

BamaBrave

Agree that Andruw should keep his mouth shut on pitching trades and concentrate on his hitting.

By Chad

July 9, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

DOB

What is the feeling on Davies around the clubhouse now? I feel like the coaching and managing staff was getting fed up with him—hence the semi-serious trade talks—but with a great outing last night, is there any feeling that he should be given another start or two? I mean, if your #4 (or, at this point, #5) guy is going 6IP with only 1ER, 4H, 2BB and 6K, he’s doing his job, right? And in my personal opinion I would bet he could have gone another inning…

By Kentavo

July 9, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Braves need to take care of business immediately after the break, like they did recently (for the most part) agains the Marlins and Nationals. They need that swagger.

By Salty

July 9, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Davies did a nice job of throwing his curve for strikes early in the game. He didn’t use it much, as I recall, but you sensed batters were looking for it, which made the fastball more effective. That curve is nasty when he puts trust in it.

If his next two starts mirror last night, it makes deadline requirements much different. Still…of the pitchers for whom a key prospect could be given away, Ian Snell looks like the real deal.

By Alan

July 9, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Has anyone noticed how well Tony Pena, Jr. is doing at KC? I think he had 4 RBIs yesterday and his BA is around .280. Wouldn’t he look nice on the Braves’ bench these days? Just a tad better looking than Chris Woodward, right? Not to mention more economical. Also, I read this morning that the Orioles have recalled another former Brave farmhand, Luis Hernandez. We really, really need to hang onto Escobar and Salty. They’re the future for sure, but they’re playing pretty doggone well right now. It would be a shame to see them starring next year and the next 10-15 years for some other club. Remember Brett Butler, folks.

By Jason

July 9, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Great post Ron - It really puts the second half of the season in perspective. As others have said, I wouldn’t dangle Salty or Yunel unless there was a huge upside in return (no 2nd half rentals). For some reason, I’m just not that worried about Andruw for the rest of the season. The biggest questions I see are the rotation (Smoltie’s health included) and keeping Hoss healthy. When Chipper is in the line up, the Braves are a good team, without him, not so much. He scared the he!! out of me last night stealing second base. Here’s hoping the 4-days off does Wickman some good. Looks like he needs to forget about baseball for a while.

DOB - just want to throw out a quick thank you for the blogs in the first half of the season. I don’t post a whole lot, but I check the blog a ton during the day and always look forward to the posts. Good job.

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

How’s this for a blockbuster?:

Salty and Escobar for Vazquez, Contreras and cash.

By Amber

July 9, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

Let’s hope Andruw doesn’t forget everything over the All-Star Break.

Maybe I’m too sentimental, but I just cringe at the thought of trading Salty or Escobar. It would be like trading Francoeur or McCann two years ago. They really are going to be more faces of our franchise and I just don’t think getting a rent-a-player would be worth it. But hey… I am but a fan.

Does anyone else find it literally painful to watch Miller & Morgan call Braves games? They spend an entire inning yakking to an NFL player, complain that they need something else to talk about besides the game, and can’t remember who’s playing where for what team. There was one play where they used the wrong names at least four times. I wanted to put a knitting needle through my eye.

I can’t get to the old blog either. I hope I didn’t start any trouble!

By Jim

July 9, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

JS. go deep into the institutional memory of the franchise. Remember the 83(?) Braves sacrificing their future for a has been named Len Barker.

Don’t pull the trigger on a bad deal for a playoff dream that will turn out badly anyway.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

This hasn’t been said in about 10 days, so here we go: It’s time for a “fire sale!” Trade the vets for “prospects.” Bring up the kids and let them play. Trade Andruw for Dontrelle and Miguel Cabrerra! Trade Chipper for Crawford…ooops, not supposed to mention him.

By AthensBrave

July 9, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Ron, Thanks for the informative 9:00 am post. We may not need another top of the line starter to make the playoffs with that schedule. I also think that Andruw has no place to make that request after the 1st half he just had. Please do not trade Salt/Yunel

By brent a.

July 9, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Let me say this:

Going back to the Washington series, the Braves are 9-4. (No secret there).

But, this represents the first time in a while, that the Braves went out and delivered over a relatively long stretch, after making big claims (see: Chipper) about what “needed” to be done.

This includes both home games and road games, against good teams and bad, with good pitchers, and bad pitchers pitching, and with both the “lefty” line-up and the “righty” line-up playing.

I woke up today feeling good about being a Braves fan for the first time in a while.

Go Braves!

By chrisklob

July 9, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB, this weekend’s blog won’t load. Did we blow up the blog? Last I looked there were over 1130 posts!

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

Oh Jim, please don’t bring up that Len Barker fiasco. It’s still painful.

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Glass Half Full (GHF),

Hope you’re kidding.

I’m sure the Marlins would give up two good young players under contract for a rental in Andruw Jones when they probably aren’t contending this season anyway.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Joe Morgan is horrible. I’d like to see him go an entire game without race-baiting, name dropping, or referring to Jose Reyes as “the most exciting player in the league.” Also, if these players/former players/managers/former managers are not involved in the game, it is not necessary to discuss them ad nauseum: A-Rod, Willie Randolph, Willie Mayes, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemmons, Joe Torre, and Frank Robinson.

By AthensBrave

July 9, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

Andruw asking for more pitching is like Davies asking for more offense.

Shut your mouth if you’re not doing your part

By Lee

July 9, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Amber - Joe Morgan has always pronounced many player’s names incorrectly on different teams believe me it is not just the Braves. Statistics are pretty much meaningless to Morgan also. Great player but as an announcer he is average at best.

For the bloggers who mention Len Barker for Butler, Jacoby and a reliever (can’t remember name) that trade ended the Braves 2 year success of the 80’s as far as I am concerned. That is one reason why I feel Escobar and Salty needs to remain with this team.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Yep, the Andruw and Wickman Farewell Tour begins Friday.

By Savannah Guy

July 9, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

HEYYYY…I wanted to read the end of the last blog but can’t get it to come up. Did the blog explode from all the entries? Did AJC pull it? Did Wicky eat it?

If anyone knows how to read from 11:15 last night, let me know. I like to try and keep up with the goings on.

Two back…ain’t bad. Not bad at all…

By BigBravesFan

July 9, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

First - DOB - best sports blog I have ever come across. Grew up here, lived in Tampa the past 10 yrs - nothing there even comes close. Amateurs. Glad to be home for the past year. I read this blog every day.

That said - I’ll chime in with the chorus here and agree that we should NOT trade Salty or Escobar. If we can get something decent for a Prado / Thorman type, do it. If not, let’s play the cards we have now. With a little luck and a little consistency from Buddy and Davies, what we have might be good enough to get the job done AND set us up for the future.

Don’t mortgage a bright future for an uncertain present!

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

Although I am the one who asked that the Len Barker thing not be discussed, I have a question: Wasn’t BC the GM then?

By Bill

July 9, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

I agree that they should stand pat until this winter. I do like Zack Greinke of KC. He’s a young hard thrower and needs a change of scenery. I wouldn’t mind giving up Thorman and Prado for him.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

What I enjoyed was the game John Sciambi, Orel Hershiser (I think) and Dusty Baker were calling a game recently, and the other guys gave Dusty such a hard time for mis-pronouncing Saltalamacchia. There’s something good about hearing play-by-play guys with actual chemistry, and they seemed to have it.

And Dusty’ just slaughtering Salt-A-K-Mock-E-uh was priceless.

By Bill

July 9, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

I agree that they should stand pat until this winter. I do like Zack Greinke of KC. He’s a young hard thrower and needs a change of scenery. I wouldn’t mind giving up Thorman and Prado for him.

By ssiscribe

July 9, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning, denizens. I posted something at the tail end of the old blog, but I, too, cannot get it to load.

But here, in a nutshell, is what I said:

Great win last night. Great way to end the first half. If we made a list back in the warm sunshine of the Evil Empire in March of all the Braves would go through in the first half (AJ struggles, back of rotation inconsistent/invisible, Chipper’s injuries, McCann’s injury, etc.), would you take being two games out of first place at the break?

Darn right you would.

Two really big IFs coming up, but IF Kyle Davies can just trust his stuff and pitch with the confidence he displayed for an entire nation against one of the game’s greatest ever last night, and IF Buddy Carlyle can continue to pitch anywhere near as effective as he has the past four weeks (the Red Sox start not included), this team doesn’t need to trade anybody. Sign a veteran bat for the bench, release Woodward, keep everybody healthy (the biggest caveat of all) and go win that pennant.

Yes, I said pennant.

This team, when playing the way we’ve seen the past 13 games, is good enough to BEAT ANYBODY IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE IN A FIVE- OR SEVEN-GAME SERIES. I’m telling you that right here and now.

The homestand after the break is really, really big. Three teams struggling. Come out, fill up Turner Field, be loud and win at least seven of the 10 games, send a message to the rest of the league.

There, I’m done with it for now. Gotta get some stuff done. Enjoy the break, everybody, and be ready for the second half. There’s a division and a pennant out there to be won. Why not the Braves? Why not this year?

It starts Friday.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Mr. Savannah Guy: Yesterday’s(and the day before and…)imploded and has become yet another black hole waiting to suck in unsuspecting matter. Sort of like Coaches’ brain. (:>)

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Pro-Tonix… No, Bobby Cox most certainly was not the G.M. in 1983.

Another thought that comes to mind is when the Tigers traded a young pitching prospect for a veteran starter that helped them in their push to win their division in 1989.

They did win the division, but lost in the ALCS and didn’t return again to the playoffs until 2006.

See, they traded for Doyle Alexander and sent the Braves a guy named John Smoltz.

Think the Tigers wished they’d skipped on a playoff “visit” in 1989 for a long run with John Smoltz in their rotation?

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

I guess I should have made clear(in my earlier)that I was talking about yesterday’s blog.

By ssiscribe

July 9, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Quick history lesson on Barker/Butler: Dodgers had traded for, I believe, Rick Honeycutt from the Rangers down the stretch in 83 (I was 10 at the time, but lived and died Braves baseball). The Braves had a 6 1/2-game lead in the West in mid-August, after Bob Watson took Steve Howe deep in the bottom of the ninth on a Saturday night at old Ful-Co.

Then, the Braves fell apart.

Then, the Braves panicked. Seeing the Dodgers get Honeycutt, Ted Turner instructed GM John Mullen to get somebody. There was Barker, two years removed from throwing a perfect game for Cleveland. The Indians wanted Butler, third baseman Brook Jacoby (who became a two-time All-Star) and Rick Behenna (spelling?), who threw out his arm.

The Braves made the deal. Barker went 1-3 in six starts for the Braves (had to go look that up, I admit) with a 3.82 ERA, but the Dodgers pulled away down the stretch (anybody remember R.J. Reynolds’ squeeze bunt on a Sunday in September in L.A., capping a four-run ninth off Gene Garber? That game ended the race, far as I’m concerned).

There’s your morning historical perspective from a guy who, looking back 24 years, still is perplexed as to why we made that deal. Alas.

Selah.

—30—

By journalist jimmy smith

July 9, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

pennant? did scribe really mean pennant? not sign? not little sign to be hammered to the stadium wall? real pennant? oh, the humanity! must get to the playoffs and survive the first round! leave bobby at the last road game. chino cadahia can manage the playoffs. and what would the lineup be? hmmm…

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Ron Roberts I stand corrected. Just call it a brainfizz that leaked out.

By Lew

July 9, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Several here have nailed it in their posts. We need to basically stand pat. As Ron Roberts and Chase have pointed out, a number 4-5 pitcher is really all we need. Smoltz’s shoulder is what it is. If the MRI showed no structural damage, do you think Smoltz is going to wimp out and not pitch? Rhetorical question, y’all-you know damn well he’s pitched sidearm before when his arm was falling off just to keep it going. Now is certainly no difference. Hudson is NOT the Hudson of last year, or even the year before. James just needs to go one more inning per start and Carlyle looks like a miracle with what he’s brought. Davies just came off of a Dr.Jekyll performance, but you never know when Mr. Hyde will show up. That’s our real question mark. I’m really loathe to let Salty or Escobar go. I would almost rather end up out of the money again this year if it means keeping them. The offense is now firing on most of it’s cylinders and their loss could derail the improvement. If Andruw heats up and gets to where he was in 05, we don’t need any more pitching. He’s proven he can carry the team. It’s time for him to do it again.

By Ricardo

July 9, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

At the break, ya gotta be feelin pretty good, but I have 2 concerns - 1. Agree w/most that we need another starter and it’ll most likely be via a trade. Gotta hope we don’t give up too much of the future if this happens. 2. This won’t happen in the near future (probably), but Soriano or Moylan needs to either share closer duties with Terry Forster, I mean Wickman or take over all together and let the big man have the 8th. The 9th inning shouldn’t be this much of an adventure!
All in all - good first half. Gotta build on the recent momentum and, hopefully, stay healthy. This is gonna be a fun few months!

By jwshults

July 9, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Whereas:

1) we know, via DOB, that JS reads this blog;

2) JS has some very difficult decisions to make;

3) his decisions, at least partially, will be effected by how fans perceive the moves;

If I may be so bold as to offer this suggestion for BLOG talking points:

Do we, as somewhat intellegent Braves fans, want to see the Braves “go for it now” by trading Salty and/or Yunel and/or other prospects for pitching/hitting?

OR

Do we, as fans, want to be future-focused and “Go for it later,” preserving the prospects and hoping the Braves can make a run at the playoffs as is?

Which is it, folks? “Go for it now” or “Go for it later.” Cast your votes.

By Luther

July 9, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

This might have been talked about during the game last night, but Joe Morgan absolutely does not pay attention to the game. He spent the begining of McCann’s at bat talking about Wimbledon and then had no point of reference during a crucial part of the game. Maddux made two patented over the inside corner come back pitches and didn’t get the call and then gives up a game changing homer. All Morgan can say was “I guess he was upset because it was called high.” He didn’t know what happened. Later when Maddux made a great play on Davies chopper, he said that Maddux “went over and hesitated to see if Davies was running hard as to whether or not to let the ball go foul.” He absolutely made this up. The replay show Maddux running with his head towards the third base line until after the ball was fielded. If Davies was running hard he would not have got him out and Maddux knew as much as you could read his lips(as you so often can) saying “should have let it go.” Its easy to criticize announcers, but don’t just make stuff up because you’re not paying attention.

By Lew

July 9, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Now Pro Tonix- For me to find out? Pretty juvenile, don’t you think? I really don’t care if you were a troll in a previous incarnation or not. I have better things to do (like Wurlitzer portraits) than to try to figure out your psychopathology. I did what I did yesterday to promote some blog harmony and to get the creativity that this blog is becoming nationally known for into high gear. You were the only one who posted negatively during the marathon. Whatever-you offer an apology and I accept. However, maybe you should know that the Esteemed Braveheart (I really wasn’t yelling at you) has me pegged pretty well. I am a Big Teddy Bear, more than willing to donate my talents for my fellow blogmates-and I am loyal and I do have their backs if I feel they were wronged by Trolls. However, I will jump all over a poster if I feel they deserve it. This however, is a choice made by the blogger, not me. I won’t usually bait someone without good reason (except Efrim, but I’m trying to be nicer). It’s your choice ProTonix-not mine. Do you really want to be a troll? Since you apologized, I’d guess not. Let it be.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

FYI, John Mullen was the G.M. in 1983. He was the GM from 1979 to 1985.

By Treadway

July 9, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

A few thoughts at the break, sorry if they are redundant with reference to earlier posts:

Looking back, the good news is that they are 21-12 versus +500 NL teams this season.

Looking forward, the good news is that they only play 3 teams (19 games) against teams with +500 first half records.

Moreover, good news is they now hold wildcard tiebreakers over SD & LA if the situation arises…..worth 1 game in the WC race.

That being said, the pitching has to improve, or they will probably find themselves playing 500 ball the second half. They won’t continue to hit .311 as they have in the past 13 games (it was quite impressive how they swung the bats against pitching staffs the caliber of LA & SD). The back end of the rotation has to keep them in games. Regarding trades, I think the best the Braves can hope for is to find a back end starter than can eat some innings….which in itself would be beneficial. I’m not sold that Davies has turned the corner with one quality start againt the NLs worst hitting team, James simply does not give innings, and Smoltz is by far the biggest concern.

I truly hope that they don’t move Escobar or Salty. Escobar is a gamer….reminds me of Jeter. Salty is a switch-hitting beast. Maybe I’m caught up in the new guys, but I believe their abilities & potential dwarf those of Francoeur & McCann when they came up two years ago.

I do believe the bullpen will hold up and that Andrew will have a solid if not spectacular second half.

In summary, if the starters come around one way or another and the team continues to gel, I feel optimistic that the team can return to the post season…..and like I wrote, they can play with the best in the NL. The AL is a different story, but we can deal with that when we get there.

By braves fan

July 9, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

I have a radical trade proposal for a starter using Yunel Escobar as the main chip that I think the Braves should consider for the following reasons:

1) The Braves starting pitching is weak. I see no Glavine, Smoltz or Avery type prospect(s) on the horizon coming up from the farm to add to Smoltz/Hudson/James to solidify a deep rotation.

2) Smoltz is not getting any younger, and while he may pitch out his contract extention, it may very well be with some time missed due to a tired shoulder.

3) SS is a deep position in the farm system. Renteria is signed thru 2008 and the Braves have Brent Lillibridge on the near horizon and Elvis Andrus on the far horizon. The Braves have a really promising young player at 2B in Kelly Johnson, who is an OBP machine. While Escobar could be the heir apparent to Chipper at 3B, that time is nowhere near. Despite Chipper having injury problems, he’s still among the elite hitters in the NL and is also a guy willing to take a pay cut or restructuring to stay in Atlanta. So unless the organization sours on him, he’s not leaving until his playing days are over (which is at least 5 years away).

4) Buy low, sell high. Escobar’s value may never be higher. Remember Wilson Betemit. He’s already 24. Most great players like a Griffey Jr. or Miguel Cabrera or ARod are major league players sooner than 24. So you have to wonder how high his ceiling is. So should the Braves commit to the idea that Escobar is going to be a starter on their infield at the expense of getting a good starting pitcher, when they are sitting on talent like Lillibridge and Andrus? I don’t think so.

My trade proposal? Yunel Escobar plus some other prospects for the Oakland A’s Rich Harden. The A’s have begun to get frustrated with the oft injured Harden and might be interested in spinning him off for some reliable talent. But Harden’s upside is so high that I think it’s worth the risk for the Braves to make to secure a top tier talent at SP. They need someone to take the torch from the old guard and make a new rotation worthy of the Atlanta Braves. Putting Harden in the capable hands of Bobby Cox and Roger McDowell might help ease his injury issues. Plus a switch to an easier league could help reduce the work load and thereby increase his health and effectiveness. Maybe they’d trade him, maybe not. But I think he’s the type of talent worth a risk.

Regardless my point is, the Braves don’t have some pipeline of major league ready starting pitching and if they expect to return to greatness, they need to get creative in rebuilding their rotation. Kyle Davies and Buddy Carlyle aren’t going to cut it. But what the Braves do have is depth at a key position…SS. And to sit around saying someone like Yunel Escobar is untouchable in a trade is irresponsible. I can see the reluctance to trade Salty, given his unique position (C) and the fact he’s a power hitter who switch hits. With the injury risk of C, you hate to give up such a talent, even if you have McCann on your roster. But even Salty shouldn’t be untouchable if he brings back a top of the rotation pitcher who has years left on a contract. Obviously you don’t give up guys like them for a rental player, but a guy like Harden is worth it, even with his injury history.

By dannycardwell

July 9, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

it would be foolish to let escobar or salty for any tempory fix. if the team goes after another pitcher trade thorman, edgar, and woodward. salty gives us a double luxury of being a great catcher and playing first base 4 days out of 5. he is also a switch hitter like chipper, which gives cox more options. this lets us go with 2 catchers instead of 3 keeping an extra arm in the bullpen. ive never heard of a team having too many great catchers. one goes down, plug the other in and get one sent up from the minors until healthy again. edgar will be too expensive to keep as we have to pay smoltze and hampton more money next year. escobar will be a cheap player for several more years. anfrew will be gone at the end of the year as well as he should be. 30-40 home runs do you no good if he cant hit with runners on base. what we pay him will get 2 very good pitchers next year. wickman is also expendable if he continues his struggles. ill take my chances on the young guys we have. if we dont win the division and i think we will, next year we have a good nucleus of young talent that we can keep togather for a long time at a good price. and with 2 good starters added, a very good shot at another world series.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 9, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

journalist won’t say that dob’s new girlfriend is ugly, but the new girlfriend was at the beauty shop for two hours. that was only for the estimate.

journalist bob said dob’s new girlfriend got a mudpack and looked great for two days. then the mud fell off (journalist bob will not like jimmy smith getting journalist bob in more trouble with dob).

oh, the humanity! please forgive this journalist, dob! the devil made this journalist write those things. journalist is going to call songbirds and convene with nature and dispose of all impure thoughts. g’day.

By Mark

July 9, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Before we think about trading escobar we need to see if we can sign Renteria to an extension!

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

jwshultz Isn’t your premise somewhat “front-loaded” when you put intelligent in your first choice? Never-the-less, I will show my ignorance and vote #2!

By Greg in TN

July 9, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Top o’ the All Star break folks…

There are still four weeks until the trade deadline, however JS is still working the phones to see what’s out there. I have a feeling that Salty AND Escobar in a package deal would be out of the question unless JS can get a upper tier starter with some years left on a contract. Anything less and I feel like he’ll say thanks, but no thanks. Can’t believe the nerve of Jim Bowden asking for both for Dmitri Young. I understand the whole, ask for the moon thing, but he’s asking for Mars and Jupiter too.

I had to laugh at DOB asking us if we had any messages for “The Clear” last night before taking off for Frisco. If you run into him at the ballpark, just tell him thanks for ‘91 and ‘92, especially for the throw to the plate in game seven.

Pro-tonix, John Mullin was the GM in ‘83 during the Barker fiasco. It’s probably already been mentioned in the time it’s taken me to post, but wanted to throw that out there just in case.

By StingerSplash

July 9, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Can Vegas take the odds on what will be higher at the end of the month - Andruw’s or Thorman’s BA? I like Thorman and want him to do well, but …. that’s a big hole in the lineup right now. I was afraid Cox might have the big one, Elizabeth, when Andruw singled to RIGHT FIELD! last night.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Lew Yes sir. Can I go out and play now?

By BamaBrave

July 9, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Please don’t trade Salty or Escobar, JS. Give the youngsters some degree of security so they can concentrate on learning major league pitching and just play without hearing the trade rumors. I hope we can focus on making Davies the pitcher he can become, developing Reyes, etc. Sure, we have a good shot at the playoffs this year, but in the next two years we get the Hampton and Andruw contract albatross off our necks, and could possibly field the best young team in the National League. A lot of us are more patient than you might realize, JS.

By Goldfish taste Awesome

July 9, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t lillbrige (error in his name on my part?) told to us fans, that if need be he may transition one day into being an outfielder for us?

By Tomahawkin' Again

July 9, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Hey scribe, I actually was at that Braves-Dodgers game back in ‘83 when Watson went deep in the 9th. I was 12 years old; Braves rally from 6-1 deficit to tie the game (HR’s from Raffie Ramirez & Claudell Washington), Bedrosian giving up a 9th inning HR (as he usually did that year) as LA took a 7-6 lead and finally Watson coming off the bench to deliver what we thought was the dagger into LA’s heart that year with a rocket to left center. The old stadium was rocking that night, remember driving through downtown honking our horns as we headed back to the old Marriott (not the Marquis). Fantastic game, but it all started to crash down around them later that month (they never learned those years, Always removing Chief Noc-a-homa’s tee-pee out of the seats in left; Braves went on awful losing streaks both in ‘82 & ‘83 when the tee-pee went bye-bye). Good God, what a brutal trade that WAS in thinking back on it; that ended the mini-dynasty that Torre was beginning to put together in the early 80’s.

By ssiscribe

July 9, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

*By journalist jimmy smith

July 9, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

pennant? did scribe really mean pennant? not sign? not little sign to be hammered to the stadium wall? real pennant? oh, the humanity!*

Esteemed Journalist: Yes, I really mean it. No little sign. The real mccoy, bro. The pennant, the thing this franchise won in 1914, 1948, 1957, 1958, nearly won in 1956 and 1959, won in 1991, 1992, 1995, 1996 and 1999, and should’ve won in 1997, 1998 and 2000.

Time will tell. But I am convinced this team is capable of beating anybody in the dreadful Senior Circuit in an October series. Whether it does, or whether it even gets the chance, will play out during the next 77 days.

—30—

By DAP

July 9, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

i dont think trading salty or escobar would be a good idea, because i really dont think there is any one out there that is worth them. thorman and prado, maybe devine or some other relief pitchers we have should be the chips we deal with. i really think those two guys are going to do alot more towards helping us win than 1 pitcher would.

the team looks really good for the second half as long as smoltz comes back healthy. if he is back, honestly the only big weakness we have MIGHT be our bench, but even it looks pretty good, because we will always have either salty, thorman or mccann on the bench and either escobar or johnson on the bench. as well as woodward, who i am convinced is not as bad as most people feel. hes not a starter, why expect him to perform like one? he gets his hits here and there and we really only need him if chipper goes down…do we expect him to match chipper’s performance? i honestly think hes a good guy to have on the bench. hes an emergency guy anyways, hopefully we will never need him. the only thing probably better would be having bryan pena up. the way we are using salty, it might be handy to have three catchers some days.

By Lew

July 9, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

ProTonix-I don’t know, have you asked your Mommy? Just play nice if you do go out.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 9, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

scribe and Tomahawkin’

Another thing to remember about that ‘83 team is that Joe Torre’s “dynasty” was built on sand. Torre managed that team like every one he has run before and since then. He rod hot hands, wore out his pitching staff and buried guys on the bench who could have helped him win games.

Difference between then and now? 1) George has opened his wallet any time Torre needed new players and 2) Mariano Rivera. What made Torre a “genius” was the freak of nature that has been his closer for the past decade. If you look at the composition of the Yankees rotation and pen (other than Rivera) since Torre took over, you see a rotating cast of characters and lots of promising guys who wash out from overuse. (See: Proctor, Scott. Nelson, Jeff. Stanton, Mike.)

Then there’s Mo. Give him the ball. Pitch him one inning. Or two. Or more. Until the past year or so, he just got people out. I consider him the most dominent closer of all time simply because he has been lights-out for so long.

He converted Torre from a mediocre manager (who is a good guy, to be sure) who knocked around from team to team to a potential hall-of-famer.

By ernesto

July 9, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Did anyone catch (and how could you miss it?) Maddux shouting “Sh*t” very loudly after he walked Druw in the 2nd. Of course as a parent of two young ‘uns I can’t condone the potty mouth, but it sure did make me miss Mad Dog’s intensity. He was a great great Brave.

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Regarding your 10:56 AM post.

It’s a blog man. What bait? Being nicer? You can say whatever you want to me. Doesn’t change my attitude toward the team or toward you. You have your right to say whatever you want because it is a blog.

By Will

July 9, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

I am encouraged with the recent success, but it does not matter what they do if Bob Wickman continues to close. Is it just me or does he look like he has just lost it completely? I am not even trying to bash they guy, i just really think he is finished and thats okay he has had a great career, but Soriano has to close, period.

By Tomahawkin' Again

July 9, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

DOB Just wondering, when you’re in the press box @ Dodger Stadium, Petco Park, etc, what is the opinions of the opposing teams beat writers on the Braves? Do they feel like we have a realistic shot; Do they feel like last year was just a hiccup or the end of the run? I’m interested to read what others outside our sphere are thinking because I read the NY newspapers on-line to follow the enemy and they think we’re a joke, not real competition to the mighty Muts. Which I think is hillarious because we’re only 2 out, feeling very good about ourselves headed to the break, while the Muts pitching staff has just imploded here in the last few weeks. Thanks for the answer and many, many thanks for this blog.

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

I too saw the ugly blogger’s posts on the Blog covering team leader Andruw’s harmony promoting public announcement, joining John Smoltz in telling our General Manager what the team needs.

I didn’t read them but was planning to defend Jimmy Smith’s honor until I saw where he had de gaulle to misquote me and get me into further trouble with David O’B.

David, I promise you that I did not say that your new girlfriend’s mud pack fell off after two days!

By chris

July 9, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

To trade or not to trade. This is how I see it. We keep Salty because we need him now at 1b— at least agaist lefties— and in the future. Next year or later this year the job may be all his. We can trade Escobar because, while he is impressive, Kelly can handle lefties. In fact, Kelly made be ready to reclaim his lead-off position. Plus we are set all all the other infield positions in the future.

Like some of you, I have suggested trading Renteria next offseason to free up some money and because we have depth at SS. We can still do this if Escobar gets traded. We can get a stop gap SS for 08 and then Lillbridge in 09 (if not 08).

If we package Escobar and say Devine (we have bullpen depth as well), perhaps we can get a quality 3rd or 4th starter. The question then becomes who is out there? Slim pickings for sure. Perhaps teams like Pittsburgh (Snell?) or Cincy (Arroyo?) would be a good fit. Detroit and Cleveland could use some bullpen help and the Tribe could use some infield help. But would they trade a starter? Not likely.

True, the best move may be to see if our young guys improve. But if we decide to make a move, my bet is that Escobar goes and Salty stays.

Thoughts?

Chris from MD

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Lew You seem determined to get the last word in this and that is fine unless that word is troll. That is one of your favorite words but from what I have seen it infers a non-Braves fan, and I resent that! I have probably been a Braves fan longer than you. I go back to when my grand-daddy used to take me from his residence on 5th St.(a good middle-class neighborhood in those days)and we would walk down to old Ponce De Leon(that was before it was prostituted to “Ponce” by people, such as yourself, from “off”)and we would watch the Atlanta Crackers play. Several of them, including Eddie Mathews, went on to become Braves. I saw the first game played by the Braves in Fulton County Stadium. Did you? Anyway, you can call me anything, and you probally will, but don’t lump me in with your “buddies” Stinky, Drool/fool and the rest. Now, give me your best shot.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Scribe… I remember that Bob Watson game so vividly; gives me chills just thinking about it. What a shame that year’s Braves didn’t win the division. If we leave things alone, I think we win the division and take the Phillies out in the NLCS if we do. We were 7-5 against ‘em that year.

Funny, though, in hindsight, ya have to give props to Joe Torre, because those ‘82 and ‘83 Braves squads were patchwork quilts, at best. History proved that much, though, didn’t it?

Anyhow, the Bob Watson game. As I recall, we were down 6-1 fairly late in that game and just rallied our way back into that game. Back then, Fulton-County Stadium would fill up if for nothing else, Dodgers-Braves games. Anyhow, the Braves scrapped their way back to tie the Dodgers, before Bob Watson’s epic pinch-hit homer ended it.

Those were the days. I hated when we dropped Joe Torre then, and the franchise spent seven years recovering from the Barker/Butler/Jacoby blunder and losing Torre.

Imagine had they kept Butler and Jacoby where they’d have finished in 1984. Jacoby hadda couple of All-Star-esque seasons, and provided a little pop from his bat, which would’ve been enhanced in the ol’ Launching Pad, as opposed to that cavernous Cleveland Stadium. Bob Horner, the very next season after the trade, played only 32 games and you could point that as why the Braves only went 80-82 that season, but if Jacoby had still been in the system to play for us, you’d have to imagine his .264/7/40 would’ve been beefed up a bit and helped us at least make a run of the division that San Diego wound up blowing us all away in that year.

Sadly, though, I think Len Barker gets a bad rap from Braves’ fans. He had fairly good ERAs when he pitched with us, just apparently didn’t get the run support needed to win decisions. He was 7-8 but had a 3.85 ERA in 1984, and was 1-3 with a 3.82 ERA in his stint in 1983 for us. Hard to knock him when he pitched fairly well enough to win.

That ‘83 team just had a horrible August. The team went into a HUGE batting slump, by their standards (hit near .300 as a team in July, down to .254 in August, while the pitching was roughed up, with the monthly ERAs going from 3.64 to 4.19 July-to-August).

Should’ve left that damned tepee up in left field seats, Ted.

By BravesFanInRockies

July 9, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Don’t know if the ESPN radar gun was accurate, but Wickman was clocked at 94, 95, 96 when he was striking out those first two guys.

Then he returned to his normal form (84-88) and got knocked around. That may mean nothing, but after the first two outs he sure was hittable.

In any event, I’d sure like to see Soriano in the closer’s role if Wicky doesn’t rebound fast after the break.

By keylargo25

July 9, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I live down in S. Florida and am hearing the grumblings of the Marlins for their record and not being in contention. Fredi Gonzalez stepped into a no win situation with a payroll less than half of the Braves and following the manager of the year Joe Giradi.

That being said, I would love to see a trade of Dontrelle Willis straight up for Salty. While Willis makes McCann type of money he is proven and will be relatively cheap for a couple of more years. Salty would fit into the Marlins system of young cheap players and would flourish near his hometown of West Palm Beach.

Willis is great in the clubhouse and teammates love him. His DUI a few weeks back is an issue but hopefully a one time thing.

I’m not sure either team would want to make the trade since both players are talented and popular but I think I would pull the trigger if it were up to me.

By atlmetsfanforlife

July 9, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

You’ve got to remember that despite the lousy mets play, they are still in 1st place. They will get healthier during the 2nd half and will more likely surge. Go Mets!

By atlmetsfanforlife

July 9, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

You’ve got to remember that despite the lousy mets play, they are still in 1st place. They will get healthier during the 2nd half and will more likely surge. Go Mets!

By atlmetsfanforlife

July 9, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

You’ve got to remember that despite the lousy mets play, they are still in 1st place. They will get healthier during the 2nd half and will more likely surge. Go Mets!

By atlmetsfanforlife

July 9, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

You’ve got to remember that despite the lousy mets play, they are still in 1st place. They will get healthier during the 2nd half and will more likely surge. Go Mets!

By atlmetsfanforlife

July 9, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

You’ve got to remember that despite the lousy mets play, they are still in 1st place. They will get healthier during the 2nd half and will more likely surge. Go Mets!

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

The only problem I have with everybody clamoring for Soriano to move to the closer’s role is, everytime y’all do that he goes out there and stinks it up. His second half of June wasn’t all that impressive, and his last appearance in Florida he didn’t even sport that closer’s face we usually see on him.

He did look good in Cali tho. I’m not disagreeing with the idea of him going to the closer’s role, I just think we shouldn’t suggest it, ‘cause I swear, he tanks a game everytime somebody here suggests it.

By JDG123

July 9, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

I am totally against trading Yunel or Salty. They already are a major part of our offense and should be the foundation for future teams.

I would look for veteran pitchers on teams with no chance to win. Matt Morris (SF), fromer Brave Kevin Millwood (Tex), Eric Bedard (Bal), and Javier Vazquez (CWS) are the types I would consider but not at the expense of Salty or Yunel.

If one of those teams would be willing to take a package comprised in some way of say 3 of the following: (Kyle Davis, Jo Jo Reyes, Diory Hernandez, Gregor Blanco, Carl Lodenthal, Manny Acosta, Buddy Hernandez, Will Startup, Anthony Lerew, J.C. Holt or Joey Devine), I would be for that deal.

By keylargo25

July 9, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

I guess the troll had to say it five times to try to convince himself.

By Lew

July 9, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

ProTonix-You’re really starting to mountainize your molehill, here. First of all, I think I’ve used the word Troll twice in posts. I didn’t coin the term and I didn’t use it to refer to you or anything you said. I warned against becoming a Troll. No, I don’t doubt your Braves bona fide-never questioned them at all. I lived on Ponce de Leaon almost 40 years ago-so? Is it a right of passage for Braves fans? All about you that bothers me (though hardly enough to give you much more of my time of day) is your attack on me yesterday, which I felt to be uncalled for, in that I’ve never paid any attention to you. You apologized and I accepted said apology. YOU seemingly want the last word. You did, after all, ask if I minded you going out to play. I don’t. But you don’t have to be a jerk to play, which is what I see you trying to be, here. I’m more than willing to let the whole thing ride, as it was only a minor point of irritation to me anyway-like I said, I’ll go draw pictures and you will cease to exist in my world. However, if you really want to get into it, it does, I’m sure, say much about what type of person you really are and what your intentions might be. I didn’t lump you in with anyone. If you are lumped it will be your own doing when you continue to try to stir up the cesspool. Get over yourself. Whatever.

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Lee and Amber,

I love how Joe Morgan explains things four or five times. Good thing he does that. We peons who never played major league baseball would have no idea what’s going on without him.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

I agree. Whatever.

By TheSouthernJackAss

July 9, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Well it looks like we’ve already got a damn identity thievin’ jackal up in here this morning…but it’s entirely AJC’s fault for allowing this behavior to continue…entirely their fault…like I tried to say last night…”page hits” at any cost!…bottom line…

By Chris

July 9, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

If we had to give up one of Salty or Escobar, I’d have to say that we could let Escobar go a lot easier than Salty.

We’re thin at catcher and first base, and we’re set in the infield. Salty could start at first and then catch Hudson when he pitches with Thorman playing first then. Escobar is harder to get in the lineup, because Chipper, Edgar, and Kelly are just playing too dang well.

By brent a.

July 9, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

One bright spot from ‘83:

Dale Murphy: National League MVP!

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

atlmetsfanforlife,

All the Braves have to do is get into the playoffs and I think we have a shot, even against the mighty Mets.

I don’t know if the Mets can match Smoltz, Hudson, Soriano and Yates.

By Lee

July 9, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

atlmetsfanforlife

Learn how to post correctly and then talk about the Mets all you want. They are only going to surge downward.

By Knox Braves Fan

July 9, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Regardless of the games pitched over the weekend, the Bravos need another pitcher. My fear is that the Braves brass will be too encouraged after this little run and not pull the trigger on a much needed starter.

Also, check out firejoemorgan.com. Funny site.

By N8

July 9, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

**atlmetsfanforlife

“You’ve got to remember that despite the lousy mets play, they are still in 1st place.”

It’s gonna be kinda hard to forget, since you posted it FIVE TIMES!!

:-)

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

At least Coach is an honest, stand up guy who calls them as he sees them!

My apologies to everyone for the data entry error in my last post on the previous Blog to Coach. The “however, truth” was supposed to read “however, truth is truth” … not sure how that escaped my attention.

Coach is a good sport and sometimes I impose on his good humored nature for the purpose of laughing with him at ourselves … only this time he failed to see the humor, methinks.

However, I had honestly adjudged that Coach had elevated his evaluation of the team as well as his expectations, based on his statement “they are going to break our hearts and come up just short of the playoffs” … it’s just hard for me to connect his feeling that the Braves are “mediocre” with his heart being broken when they don’t make the playoffs. I asked myself, “Why would his heart be broken if they met his expectations?”

Sounded like a bummer to me … having low expectations so that you’ll not be disappointed and then being disappointed when your expectations are met.

I failed to realize that Coach equates being mediocre with not making the playoffs … methinks there are a lot of bad teams not making the playoffs that wish they were mediocre.

Someone might suggest to the Coach that with the unbalanced schedule and interleague play, if one division is very strong, the best team in the league might be very good indeed and not make the playoffs … while, in a weak division, a mediocre team might.

I would myself so suggest but the utility of so doing would be nil since he now thinks me a liar for having misinterpreted some of his earlier remarks which I thought indicated he thought the team was bad.

It was just a little misunderstanding … no problem … I’m not like some people I know, always making up stuff folks never said and trying to get ‘em in trouble for something they never did.

I may be a liar but only admit to so being when I think it suits my purpose … and this isn’t one of those rare moments of utter stupidity.

The Coach is almost always an enjoyable light read … and he indeed calls things as he sees them. However, he’s wrong in thinking I do not … we just see things differently, and methinks sometimes he just sees things …

Time for coffee, a hot tub and some maple syrup … go figure.

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

Now I see that I have to be careful when I talk about going fishing or creatures that hang around bridges … just an opine, but methinks that here on the Blog, offensive misdirection is usually an ineffective defense mechanism for the guilty to employ, especially when the one a doin’ the misdirecting is a relatively unknown quantity and the target has a well established history.

By Lew

July 9, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

JDG123-I’m not so sure your list of pitchers is who we need to go for. 1.Matt Morris-17-20 the past two seasons with a cumulative ERA of 4.44 and almost at 5 last year. In 114 IP this season, he has given up 121 hits and walked 37 batters while only striking out 60. He also makes $10+mil. 2.Kevin Millwood-$9.8 million, 6-6 with an ERA of 6.16. He’s given up 103 hits and 32BB in 80IP while striking out 60. 3.Javier Vasquez-not doing too terribly, but is making $13 million this year. We can’t afford him now or in the future-he’s not that good and not worth that much a percentage of our team salary. 4. Bedard-Only making $3.4 million and posting good numbers, considering who he pitches for. However, you won’t get him without giving up Salty and/or Escobar. Bank on it. We need a number 4-5 starter-nothing more or more expensive.

By Joe Schmoe

July 9, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

I have to agree on the Miller/Morgan discussion. I don’t know who’s worse them or Tim McCarver and anyone else. Imagine our bad luck that we got them on back to back days.

John Miller spends all of his time making sure he enunciates every name correctly and takes as long as possible to do so then makes sure to tell everyone how awesome Joe Morgan is. Then, we get to listen to them give biased and incorrect info and harping on a particular subject. What’s that Joe? You think Andruw is trying to pull the ball too much? Franceour likes to swing the bad? NO FRICKIN’ KIDDING DUDE!

How about Maddux clearly asking the umpire if the last two pitches before the homerun to Kelly were inside and Morgan saying that he could read his lips and that he couldn’t repeat what he said except to say that the pitches weren’t high? Moron, he asked if they were inside without cursing. I know you always assume that Maddux is cursing, but he wasn’t this time.

Who decides who the stations number 1 broadcast team is? FOX and ESPN are fighting over who has the best baseball coverage and the only competition worth debating is who’s lead broadcast team is worse.

Hey Joe, how about you do some actual research before the game and open your mind to statistics and what they could actually mean to runs, wins, etc. Watching a baseball game and not hearing them discuss a single stat is ridiculous. Intangibles are awesome Joe, they really are, but let’s discuss something tangible…

By Lew

July 9, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

An interesting fact about the Mets (since their fans insist on coming here still thumping their chests). The Mets record since May 20 is 19-26. Since May 20!!! That’s seven full weeks. This is beyond a slump. It is a trend. Just like I’ve been saying all along, since way before the season started, their pitching staff is terrible. They are proving me right. Keep hoping Pedro is your salvation. They are letting him throw every 7-10 days now. Good luck. Even without Andruw’s contribution and injury problems, as well as the total overachievement of the Mets for the first month and a half of the season, we’re only two back. We are 6-3 against the Mets with 9 left against them. Yeah-we should quake in fear, shouldn’t we. With the exception of last year, the Mets are, as usual, a bunch of dead wood. They are reverting to type.

By JasonInMaine

July 9, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Didn’t JS have a deal in place this off season that was Giles & LaRoche for Bedard & Roberts? Isn’t that the deal that got squashed by Angelos—the owner? Too bad…JS would have robbed the O’s in that trade!

Regards,

Jason

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Lew

For Bedard, start with McCann. Then add Chuck James and Yunel Escobar. If he was on the market, other teams have more to offer than us.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

Bob, Journalist Let it go, sir. We have.

By bravefansince54

July 9, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Go for it later. Salty and Yunel are the future. I will get a lot of flack for this, but “ya’ll” are way too hard/impatient on Thorman. I am not a big fan of his, but we give pitchers with 5.00+ ERA’s quite a few starts hoping he’ll come around, and yet a young 1B with what - 9- homers, who makes some very good plays at his position is being “drop kicked” (pardon the mixed metaphor) for not hitting for average. He’s young, he costs us very little, and may come around. He could be our guy hitting .270, 30HR, 90-110 RBI in 2 years, and still costing us little.

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Of those listed, I think Vazquez is the guy I’d want. But you are right, I probably wouldn’t give up Salty or Escobar for just him without the White Sox paying a significant chunk of his salary.

I’d be more willing to give up Escobar with the infielders the Braves have on the way—as I said yesterday, Andrus could be another Reyes or close.

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Pro-tonix, who were your favorite Crackers?

By Will

July 9, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, I agree that Soriano may not be the answer, but i would rather have Mickey Mouse closing then Bob Wickman.

By Kentavo

July 9, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Maybe we can give the O’s some prospects for Bedard - and throw in McDowell for Mazzone.

By Kentavo

July 9, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Maybe we can give the O’s some prospects for Bedard - and throw in McDowell for Mazzone.

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

We need to stop this talk of getting big time pitchers. I would love it but it is not going to happen with our payroll. Just another decent starter is all we need.

Smoltz, if even not 100%, will get back out there after his DL stint and pitch well enough even if injured for the rest of the season. He proved it in 1999 and in other seasons.

I think we will continue to win 60% of the starts of Smoltz, James, and Hudson because that is what we have done thus far with them and what they historically have done.

We just need a decent #4 or #5 to eat innings and give us a .500 record. There are 73 games left.

James, Hudson, and Smoltz should start 45 to 50 of those games. If we win 60% of those, at worst we will be 74-60, and, at best 77-62. Then if the #4 and #5 can go .500 from there, at worst we would finish 88-74, and at best, 89-73. I think 90 wins will take this thing.

That may leave us short but we will be right there. Plus, if we hang with the Mets long enough, they will crap the bed. They always do when we apply the pressure to them.

So, we will win this division. We just need a mediocre innings eater to help us. A great or very good pitcher would be great. Just don’t see it happening.

Perhaps, Smoltz and Hudson will win 66% of their games and James will win 60%. At worst that would be 76-58 and at best 79-60. .500 from the #4 and #5 will get us to 91-70.

And Paladin Protonix, cut the crap.

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine,

Hudson and Brian Roberts were involved in the O’s trade, reportedly, I think.

Efrim,

I’m not so sure. Salty and Escobar are likely more than any other team could/would offer.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

I liked those Orange-ish peanut butter crackers, myself, Bob. :-)

By Lew

July 9, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Efrim-You may be right Dude. No matter who they would ask for, the price tag would be way higher than we would care to pay, I’m sure. Another thing many fail to realize is that our fortunes started to turn with the introduction of Salty and Escobar to our lineup. Why in the name of all that is good and right would we want them out of our lineup? There is an extreme lack of good pitching throughout baseball and still teams manage to win-with good offense. When we went through our worst streak, we were losing more because the hitters weren’t rather than the pitchers not. We need the offense more than another starter. Look at the Padres, with one of the best pitching staffs there is today. Where would they be if they could hit? Of what good was that awesome staff when we came in this weekend? We knocked their socks off with good hitting. Even the game we lost we scored 5. Beef up the bullpen so we don’t kill from overuse those already there. It would work better. Let’s keep the successful pieces in place.

By brent a.

July 9, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

2007 Atlanta Braves current record against:

NY Mets: 6 - 3 Milwaukee Brewers: 2-1 Chicago Cubs: 4 - 3 San Diego Padres: 5 - 2 Los Angeles Dodgers: 4 - 3 Arizona D’backs: 0 - 0

While I realize that we do not appear to a be a World Championship-caliber team, I still have no problem believing that we could be NL champions.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Joe Schmoe You can throw Joe Buck in the list of garbage commentators…We’ll get to hear his biased carcas (Along with McCarver )tomorrow nite…Makes me look Foward to watching the Playoffs on TBS

I can barely Tolerate Miller And Morgan…They should change up the Telecasts, since its supposed to be a national telecast without Biased commentary…Wrong! Wrong!, Talking about ESPN…Ican’t watch it unless the Braves are playing on Sunday nite

By Lew

July 9, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Pro-Tonix-Have you ever read Bobby Dews’ book on the Crackers? The man is an excellent author. I’m reading his current book right now. Lots of good Southern Horror and Ghost stories along with a great mix of Southern life in smaller places. The man can write as well as he coached-and he was (and is) one of the best.

By Lee

July 9, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun -

Vazquez is the one that keeps my interest also. True that Escobar is expendable. Guess my main concern is whom do the Braves replace Escobar with if he is traded for the remainder of this season. I cannot bare the thought of Orr and Woodward being the main backups at 3rd, ss, or 2b again.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Mr. Bob: Sorry to be so long in posting. I had taken a lunch break.

I guess my favorite would have to be Eddie Mathews although I liked Chuck Tanner a lot. ‘Course many of these kids don’t realize that Tim McCarver was a Cracker. He was not a favorite then, or now. And we shouldn’t forget Luke Appling, but he was a little before my time. And you can’t mention the Crackers without paying tribute to Earl Mann. He was the master!

By Greg

July 9, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

Personally, I wonder how much Maddux had to do with Mazzone’s success. Look at how much Jake Peavy and Chris Young have improved since Greg became a Padre. Loved his comment to the ump last night about four strikes. That was classic. We miss you Maddog.

By JasonInMaine

July 9, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Thanks for the reply…I can’t remember if it was Bedard or Penn the Braves had a deal for…

Regards,

Jason

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Sittin’ in the condition’ air,/I’ll be sittin’ when the evenin’ come.

Watching the posts roll in,/Then I’ll watch ‘em roll away again.

Yeah, I’m sittin’ on the dock of the blog,/Watching my life roll away.

Ooh, I’m just sittin’ on the dock of the blog,/Wastin’ time.

I left my home in Georgia,/Headed for the Frisco bay.

I have nothing to live for,/Look like nothin’s gonna come my way.

So I’m just gonna sit on the dock of the blog,/Watching my life roll away.

Ooh, I’m sittin’ on the dock of the blog,/Wastin’ time.

Look like nothing’s gonna change/Everything still remains the same.

I can’t do what ten people tell me to do/So I guess I’ll remain the same.

Just sittin’ here resting my bones,/And this loneliness won’t leave me alone.

Two thousand miles I roam,/Just to make this blog my home.

Now I’m just gonna sit at the dock of the blog,/Watchin’ my life roll away.

Ooh, I’m sittin’ on the dock of the blog,/Wastin’ time.

By GeorgetownKid

July 9, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

I don’t envision a blockbuster deal involving the Braves. In fact, I don’t really see a big trade at all this summer.

For some reason that I don’t understand, the asking price for middle-of-the-road veterans has become ABSURDLY high. How Bowden (GM of the Nats) could ask for Salty AND Escobar in exchange for Dimitri Young is totally beyond me. And if you look at the enormous contract that the White Sox recently gave to Burle(sp?), the market seems to be a bit out of whack right now.

If not-so-great players are valued so ridiculously high, I can’t imagine what a bonafide top-of-the-rotation pitcher would go for.

So I think we need to prepare ourselves for the fact that our team probably won’t change much this season. We might pick up a pinch-hitter, like Ward from last year, but I wouldn’t expect much more.

By TennesseePaul

July 9, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Great way to head into the break for everyone on the team, except maybe Wickman. This guy is getting pretty ugly out there. Almost to the point of a Kyle Davies Closer. He can come out one night and use 4 pitches to get the game done and then the next night need a generous call from the ump to get out of his self induced jam. I’m glad we have the arms we do have.

Francoeur is doing much better this year. Very pleased with his progress. I hope he can get the bat working at home. I hope the whole team can start swinging at home and on the road in the second half. They do that and they’ll cruise to the finish line.
I hope McCann figures his swing out for the second half. His power is there, but his average is lacking. Burried in this recent “surge” is a 4-25 stretch.

This rotation is shaping up pretty good. But I understand the questions. The main one is, is Buddy for real? So far he is looking like Roger’s first refinish. He’s spectacular. But he’s going to have that lingering question… how long will this last? Perhaps he is a late bloomer, but it’s hard to bank on it.
Kyle Davies threw much better yesterday. He popped it in there at 95. In LA he was struggling to hit 91. I still have hopes for him, but they are starting to fade each time he stinks the place up. Perhaps his second half will be his rebirth. At least he went out of the first half on a great note.
Hudson… Hopefully this break will allow him to rest up and come back to the April form.

GO BRAVES

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

And now Braveheart is trying to pick a fight with me. That’s the problem with this league. Too many DHers.

Lew No, I haven’t read Dews book, but it sounds interesting. Maybe you will let me read your copy, when you are done. You can put it in the box with my wurlitzer. (:>)

By JB

July 9, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

The Braves should have traded Saltamacchia for Pence when they had the chance, before Pence became a knowm commodity. Now that their 2nd most important need is an additional starting pitcher. Their first is for a centerfielder who could hit, so Andruw is the last who should be talking about pitching needs. All top contenders could use another starting pitcher, so why aren’t the Braves a top contender, Andruw. I heard a commentator say something that made a lot of sense. It is McCann, not Salty who should be traded, since Salty has more upside and McCann is more of a known commodity. For him they could get a pitcher and a centerfielder. I think Mike Cameron is more in their budget and for him they could get some young pitching.

By Bob

July 9, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

I guess my favorite Cracker was Jimmy Beauchamp. We were Cardinals AAA team in those later years and I always loved Beauchamp. He never made it big in the majors but he was quite a player with the Crackers. I remember my dad talking about Bob Montag, Eddie Mathews and I remember Tim McCarver playing at ole Poncy.

I also was at the Braves game in 66 when Denny Lemaster bested Koufax and we won it on Eddie Mathews late homerun. I have been overseas in the Army most of the last 30 years, so most of my Braves monitoring was with AFN Radio and TV.

By N8

July 9, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

I think the thing you guys are ALL forgetting about with Joe Morgan, John Miller, Tim McCarver, Chip Caray (when he was with fox), etc….

These are NATIONAL BROADCASTS. Fox and ESPN have long ago stopped being networks for the serious fans that actually know details of the games.

I’m guessing that most announcers are directed to describe the game as though the listener knows NOTHING. Like many of them do.

Somebody complained earlier that Morgan was commenting on Francoeur swinging at bad balls, and Andruw pulling the ball. Then stated No Duh!

A little ignorant, isn’t it, to assume that EVERY person watching the ESPN Sunday night game of the week, hangs on the blog, and knows every detail of every Braves player, don’t you think? What about the Padres fans? What about the people that just tune in, because there is NOTHING better to do on a Sunday night, and usually watch the game no matter who is playing, like I do almost every Sunday? If the Angels and Royals were playing, I would appreciate the announcers informing me of who has what tendancies, if I hadn’t seen them enough to make my own assessment.

You all still live in the world that you think revolves around the Atlanta Braves. That world stopped exsisting long ago. America’s team? They haven’t been for year, if they ever were.

Joe Morgan is NO WORSE than listening to Joe Simpson or Don Sutton.

You guys just don’t like it when somebody isn’t licking the azzes of your favorite players.

Get over it.

Joe Morgan, while maybe a little overbearing and annoying, has forgotten more about baseball than most announceers ever knew in the first place.

Chip, Skip, and Joes Simpson included.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Shaun

In response to my fire sale proposal earlier…yes, I was kidding. I get a kick out of those “fire sale” and “trade ‘em for prospects” people.

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Paladin, I ain’t picking a fight with you.

By Wayne in Utah

July 9, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

We do a lot of talking about needing another pitcher on the blog, which I don’t necessarily disagee with, BUT if Andruw were hitting, we wouldn’t be talking much about our #4-5 guys.

Also, agree with “Bravesfansince54” on Thorman. While I am not opposed to getting Saltalamacchia his AB’s at first, I am not ready to throw Thorman under the bus just yet. BTW, if Thorman had been hitting in the cleanup spot as much as AJ has, I dare say he would have as many RBI’s as AJ.

Now, with that having been said, I return to my previous statement. Our season rides on the shoulders of Andruw Jones, PERIOD! We might be able to squeak into the wild card with him struggling, but to have a fair shot at the WS, he has to play his “normal” game for the next 70 or so. All of our other troubles will pale in comparison. (this is all, of course barring a major injury to one of our key players….Hoss, Smoltz, etc…)

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Seriously, I’m starting to think the best thing this team could do to win the NL East is….

…nothing.

Yeah, I know; I’m crazy. But folks, why on earth should we give up Saltalamacchia and/or Yunel Escobar to get a mid-range starter when we already have mid-range starter options in-house now. Here are those options, and I’m putting them in my best option order…

1. Kyle Davies. Let’s all ask ourselves, out loud, again. Did he FINALLY get it, this time? Four of his last seven starts have been no worse than decent, and you could even go back to five of his last nine. Dominant? No. Serviceable? Yeah. Besides, you can almost dismiss the start in L.A. since it was the start after his minor injury and having missed a spot in the rotation. It had been ten days since he last pitched. So let’s (once again, I say) hold our thoughts until we see him in his next start or two before saying “Hasta la vista, Kyle.” Kid’s got the tools to win; it’s the penthouse, though, not the tool shed, that gives him issues.

2. Oscar Villareal. Maybe you’ve heard me say this before. He’s sporting a 3.78 ERA, and yet we’re 5-25 in games he pitches in. Terrible waste of his talents, doing mop-up duty after a failed 4/5 starter. In 2006, the Braves were 4-0 in games Oscar started; he went 1-0 in those games, himself, with a 3.50 ERA.

Buddy Carlyle has the other 4/5 spot in the rotation TFN, far as I’m concerned. Find me another 4/5 guy out there available on the market who’s so much better than what he’s given us that they’d be worth our losing Saltalamacchia or Escobar for.

By BigBravesFan

July 9, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Lew: Agree that you can’t take Salty and Escobar away from the lineup now. If they were still sitting in the minors and we were dealing on potential - maybe. But these guys are helping make the offense “go” now. If they go, we get one presumably better pitcher and we have to start giving important at bats to Pena, Woodward, and Orr again. No thanks. Let’s keep the offense rolling and get what we can out of the starters. To repeat something said by many before me — almost EVERYBODY has pitching problems. I’m OK with where we are if we can keep scoring runs. In the NL, we have as good of a shot as anybody.

By Lee

July 9, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Lots of good Southern Horror and Ghost stories along with a great mix of Southern life in smaller places.

Lew-

Bobby Dews has had real life living experience in the Deep South. Despite being born in Clinton, OH he was raised in Edison, GA about 120 miles S.W. of Albany, GA in which he lives with his family now. This is also around my part of the woods. The man is definitely an ICON around the city of Albany and justifiably so.

By Wayne in Utah

July 9, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

N8 When I lived in the Bay Area during the 80’s, the Giants picked up Joe Morgan as a player for a few years. He grated on me as much then, as he does now.

His reference to himself as “Joe Morgan” was the worst.

You are right about announcers though. Very few are astute. It’s all about entertainment. Probably the highlight of the broadcast was the “SD Chicken” and the fish tacos!

Oh well, gotta get back to the grindstone, and quit borrowing other business’ high speed!!

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

MEB, sourdough, indeed. My favorite kind of bread in the world, and they make the best sourdough right here. I’m looking out my 21st floor window at the bay, the piers, tip of Alcratraz Island, the Transamerica building to my left, the ships rolling in … and rolling away again.

OK, gotta get over to the press conference at another hotel. Been in my room about 12 minutes….

By Drummerdad

July 9, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, Otis was something else. I forget who the guitarist was on that song, but go back and listen to that beautiful stuff he put on top of OR’s vocal. It also brings to mind Amos Garrett’s work on Maria Muldaur’s “Midnight at the Oasis”. Ohhhhhh…

If Andruw gets some groove back and figures out how to hit again before the season is over then that’s good. BUT, I’m putting no stock in his being a Brave next year. That’s not his agent’s style. I’ll be shocked if AJ is a Brave next year.

The road trip was a good sign. They won 2 series and split the other. We’re still a mediocre team, but the results of this trip were definitely in the right direction. Chipper is remarkable. We should note this action well, because we won’t be watching this too much longer.

By Will

July 9, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

N8,

Are you kidding me about the broadcast. First of all Joe Morgan never has had much good to say about the Braves and also he repeatedly said the wrong name, such as when he was asking Terry Pendleton about Andruw Jones and he referred to Andruw as Terry. One slip will happen, but he messed thins up several times. I dont need the TBS guys, just a well announced game. PS: I hate Chip Caray, i wanna jump off my house after 3 innings of him, he is god awful. Used to love Skip Caray, but he is getting ridiculous now too.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Braveheart: Since you insist on calling me names Paladin, I ain’t picking a fight with you., you must help me with the pronunciation. Is it PAL-adin, or Pal-ADIN? Inquiring minds want to know. (:>)

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Oh, and in answer to your question about Smoltz, no, he’s not attending the game at all. Said that was his big regret, that he wouldn’t be able to bring his teen-aged son here the way he’d planned to do, because he was going to have to have follow-ups with doctors and the like back in Atlanta. At the time, of course, he didn’t know that his MRI was going to be so clean and that he’d be able to cancel his appointment with Dr. Andrews this week. But I hadn’t heard anything new about him changing plans again to come out here.

By Alan

July 9, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Erik Bedard isn’t going anywhere. He’s easily the O’s #1 pitcher. Nor is Ian Snell, who’s the Bucs’ #1. Let’s try to be just a bit realistic, OK? Millwood, Vasquez, Contreras - they’re probably the guys who are going to be moved by the non-waiver trading deadline (July 31). All have bloated salaries, but the Braves probably can afford to pick one of them up for the rest of this season. Problem is, what about next year and the year after? I’m pretty sure each of those guys has a multi-year contract. If the Braves make any move, it’s likely to be a relatively modest deal - Greinke, Harden, someone like that - without having to give up a stud like Escobar or Salty. Neither of those guys should go anywhere - not this year, next year or ever. How can anyone say Escobar is “expendable”? Because Elvis Andrus (the next Jeter, they’re calling him) will be “ready” in ‘09? Is that so? He’ll be 20 years old, most likely playing at Richmond if not Mississippi. If Escobar is not the Braves’ SS in ‘09, that probably means they will have resigned Renteria, in which case Escobar should be playing for the Braves at 3B. Or 1B or LF. He is going to be an All-Star, and if it’s not with the Braves it’ll be a mortal sin. Same is true of Salty, by the way.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

I hope not to see scooter tomorrow nite on da Fox telecast…

Braves need to stand pat I think…there’s very little talent to trade for out there, even though I’d love Bedard…

BTW there’s gonna be good TV tonite, I can tolerate Chris Berman…And I hope that Yankees Show that airs on ESPN tonite resembles the show “Playmakers” Which ESPN Cancelled because the NFL Moaned about it Stereotyping the Players of the NFL…

BTW College Football and Frat parties in 6 weeks, along with da pennant race, Can’t wait…

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

We should not give up on Thorman for the future. But Salty needs to be getting most of the at bats at first. Let Thorman be a late inning defensive replacement and get some time in left. It would not be giving up on him to put him on the bench. He would be a good power hitting pinch hitting option this year. This team needs production where they can get it. Thor does not provide that. It’s not so much hi AVG. He also does not walk alot either.

Ron Roberts, I agree with you, we should see if Villarreal, Reyes, or Davies can step up for the next 3 weeks before we trade away future stars for an immediate need that might be filled from within.

By ppaddy123

July 9, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Has anyone else noticed how ESPN analyst, Eduardo Perez, seems to be in love with the Mets? Forget the fact that ESPN in general loves them…. this guy must be on their payroll. He says they’re the best team in the NL. That’s a joke. They are a good team. But they’re not the best team in the NL. Not hands down like that bonehead claims.

By Knox Braves Fan

July 9, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

N8 - - you couldn’t be more wrong. Joe Morgan doesn’t announce baseball games. He talks. There is a major difference. Further, he talks more about his playing days than the game he is actually watching. He makes watching the game a little painful. He could pick it at second base back in the 70s but he is not a good baseball colorperson/announcer.

Quite frankly, they’re a dying breed. I would much prefer to watch the Sunday night game and listen to the commentary on XM radio. The Braves’ announcers aren’t great - but they’re better than Morgan.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Will

“Chip Caray, i wanna jump off my house after 3 innings of him, he is god awful.”

Thats Funny…Why does everyone hate on Chip? I liked him on WGN…He’s straight…Maybe we can get the Hawk and D.J. to call the Homerun Derby tonite, like it will happen, However…

By TheSouthernJackAss

July 9, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Boogers..Boogers..Good as Gold!

Green and yellow, warm or cold,

Picked, eaten, flicked or rolled,

Hard to get, but easy to hold,

Hoarded, bartered, bought and sold,

Stolen, borrowed, squandered, doled,

Spurned by the young, but prized by the old,

Boogers..Boogers..Good as Gold!

Good or bad a thousand fold…

Ode to the Booger…

By Wayne in Utah

July 9, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Where are all the “Willie Harris must start every day folks” now???

By DAP

July 9, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

N8 youre off on this one, man. joe morgan sucks!!! it goes beyond stating that andruw is trying to pull the ball! he screw up players names all the time, and both he and his partner dont just give broad facts about the teams they are talking about, but say things that arent even accurate!!!

besides, we are BRAVES fans here, and we want to listen to announcers who know about our team! thats why most people here dont like the national broadcasts, because they do not represent our team correctly, and i know when i watch a game with any other teams playing, that i cant believe hardly anything the announcers say!

also when the announcers spend a minute and a half talking about football during a freaking BASEBALL game and almost ignoring whats going on in front of them, that can get irritating.

also, joe morgan thinks hes the bees knees, which further aggrivates me when he messes stuff up.

the announcers are terrible, and i believe the braves announcers are way better, but dont fault people on here, N8, for not wanting thier team to be misrepresented by a national broadcast team that includes joe morgan who, and i cant stress this enough SUCKS as a baseball announcer.

By Joe Schmoe

July 9, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

N8,

My complaint isn’t that they bring it up, I agree that it’s their job to bring it up, it’s just that I can’t bare to keep listening to it over and over again. They interrupt their discussions about everything other than the game to say:

Jon Miller “Oh hey, Joe, Franceour is up again!”

Joe Morgan(laughing) “I bet he swings the bat again!”

Miller “He’s already seen 4 pitches in this at bat. That’s more than he sees in an entire game!”

Morgan “Yeah, you know Franceour is a free swinger? He’s “aggressive” and the Braves don’t want him to lose that.”

Miller “Anyway, back to your mancrush on Derek Jeter…or was it A-Rod? Reyes? Manny? Willie Randolph? I forget.”

I admit that I’m a homer, but I also try to be somewhat educated. I understand they have to give tendencies of the players from the teams they are covering, but they consistently choose one or two players and talk about them the entire game. They don’t know anything about anyone else on the roster other than the Jones boys, Frenchy and Smoltz.

More stats were shown for Ladainian Tomlinson than any person playing baseball last night. Whenever you watch Sunday Night Baseball, it’s easier to forget who’s playing than to actually know what’s going on. That’s how bad they are.

By Another Compensated Blogger

July 9, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Rule No. 71: When DOB enters a room, all must fall on the floor, prostating themselves and proclaiming: “We’re not worthy!!! We’re not worthy!!!”

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Oh yea, before I head to the pool, I gotta give Nuff Respect to the way dem Braves went out to the West Coast, and handled their Biz…Especially giving Davies a Shout Out, he pitches like that in 10 of 15 starts in the second half we’ll have a playoff slot in da bag…

I (And I know a couple others ) thought were were gonna go out like some Sukcas after that heartbreaker in Fort Liquordale and the 2 losses at Chivez Ravine, but we started clownin after that, We just need to keep being agressive on the bases I think and our offense will be straight…

Go Braves!

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

If the Braves deal anything, I think it’d be Lillibridge and/or some of the young relievers in our system, like Devine or Startup.

You could conceivably see a future contending Braves team with this kind of starting 8….

1B. Jarrod Saltalamacchia/Scott Thorman (to early to throw him away, just yet)

2B. Kelly Johnson/Yunel Escobar

SS. Yunel Escobar

3B. Elvis Andrus

RF. Jeff Francoeur

LF. TBA/platoon

CF. Brandon Jones

C. Brian McCann

Those are all high-caliber future/present contributors with the organization’s only future potential shortcoming being, ironically, in the rotation. It’s too soon to tell about JoJo Reyes, Anthony Lerew, hell, even Kyle Davies, and of course there’ll almost always certainly be a veteran ace-like starter thrown in from somewhere.

So, in essence, I’d say if we had to ship anything out for a good starter, Lillibridge and one of those young relievers (Devine/Startup) are the names worth shopping around.

By Baron

July 9, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, the link to the previous blog entry is broken, or the page has been deleted. Whatever the cause, it doesn’t seem to be accessible.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Hell yea, I want Harris leading off everyday, that speed he brings has changed our offense, and He doesn’t try to hit the ball 450 like Furcal used to…

Oh the LT was vintage ESPN…Next they’ll have that Hilton wonan on there, ESPN Sucks…Hope the guys on ESPN Firsttake are reading this, ha ha…

By DAP

July 9, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

that was supposed to be an inning and a half talking about football

By Chase

July 9, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

BRAVES NEED a 4-5 TYPE STARTER NOT AN ACE

With a 4-5 type we could SOLIDIFY the rotation WITHOUT GIVING UP SALTY OR ESCOBAR

I would Look for a MILLWOOD or BRONSON ARROYO.

IAN SNELL would be great but they’d probably want one of those two guys for him.

The Braves need to get whatever they cna for SOME COMBO OF Thorman, Prado, Andrus, Lillibridge but by no means should they trade Escobar or Salty

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

This ripping national telecasts thing is funny, Most People outside of New Yawk, and L.A. don’t like them

talk to philly fans and they hate ESPN and Fox worse than I do…

By Lee

July 9, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

As far as Miller and Morgan go. Baseball announcers generally are the most boring of any professional sports announcers. This is mainly due to the slow pace of the game. Other sports such as basketball and football, especially college, are more fast paced until announcers do not have time to go into as much detail about players (a lot which is boring anyway) and analyze as closely. It is easy to criticized baseball announcers. You rarely hear anyone praise any baseball announcers.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

In a COMPLETELY un-related note…

Did anybody else just take a few moments to soak in what a great ballpark Petco is???

I wish they’d retrofit Turner Field’s right field and right field corner to look like that… chop off that section of TF at the RF foul pole and drop in a big ol’ bleacher section that juts away from the 1B line at a 90 degree angle, or parallel to the 3B line, essentially. Turner needs to be down-sized an made to feel more “intimate” anyhow. That would eliminate a few seats. Then, do like they did at U.S. Cellular in Chicago and lop off the last 10-12 rows in the upper deck and bring the overhang down with it. Eliminate that crap behind and above the left field bleachers and let us see the downtown skyline better, too. I’ve always thought that Turner doesn’t need to seat any more than 42,000 really.

But wow, Petco’s a charmer. Right up there (IMHO) with the new Busch Stadium, Comerica, and Camden Yards.

By TheSouthernJackAss

July 9, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Who the hell is this ‘DOB’ character anyhow?…

By Another Compensated Blogger

July 9, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, I just want you to know, Man, that I am on a hunger strike until you win a Nobel Prize for Journalism.

DOB Rocks!!!

By ppaddy123

July 9, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

Joe Morgan, Dusty Baker, Eduardo Perez, and Steve Phillips hate the Braves. Period. John Kruk is the only “baseball guy” on ESPN that will “painfully” acknowledge the Braves. Typical statement on an ESPN broadcast, “don’t look now, here come the Braves”. Major League Baseball needs better ambassadors for the game that these “A*******CLOWNS”

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

To those of you who dislike these mouth-that-roared announcers, here is a tip. Us Dawgs turn down the sound and listen to Munson. Unfortunately, with the Braves we don’t have that luxury. (Oh, BTW did y’all know that Munson came to Georgia to be a Braves announcer?) AAR, turn down the sound anyway. You know your team and you don’t need those yo-yos to “analyze” nothin’. Brings to mind the DeNiro film, Analyze this! Anywho, you may have to turn up the sound occasionally to learn what the Ump’s son and daughter-in-law named their baby, but that’s what remotes are for. Enjoy!

By DAP

July 9, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

ron roberts looks good escept i see escobar at third instead of andruws. andruws talent at SS from what ive heard is to great to move him.

By Another Compensated Blogger

July 9, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Protonix-Dude, you are so 2006. Lew is a most righteous dude in the blogdom. He is a master backer of the Whirly-Bird award. He paints it.

By HP

July 9, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123: I have to agree with you that Eduardo Perez is wrong. What is he thinking anyway? He thinks that they have a lot of veterans and big market players in their clubhouses so they are considered the best team even though their record shows that the are not. You have to look at stats and how each players have performed so far. You don’t look at who has the best players. Lets take look at LA Dodgers and compare to mets. Team batting avg. Dodgers: .271 Mets: .268 Team Pitching ERA. Dodgers 3.83 Mets 3.91 Fielding Dodgers: 68 Errors Mets: 44. The only thing mets have better is fielding, but Dodgers are better in 2 of 3 major categories. In conclusion Dodgers are better than mets.

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts,

Brandon Jones isn’t a CF. Jordan Schafer is our future CF. Future as in 2009, the earliest.

Shaun,

The Yankees and Red Sox, to list two teams, have more to offer than us. Clay Bucholz and Micheal Bowden for the sox and the Yankees have Phillip Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy to offer teams. We have good positional players. We have nothing in terms of high end pitching prospects like the Red Sox and Yankees have. Pitching prospects will get you Erik Bedard.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Man Ron love Petco, It is a 3 to 1 upgrade from Qualcomm, even though I like the “Q” for football games

I agree Turner Field needs work, I’d wish they’d build hi-rise condos beyond center field…That wiew from over the backdrop at Petco park is classic…Pete Van Wieren mention all the development a couple years back about how it was going to change the look to the ballparks surrounding vincinity…and he was rite on point

I’d take that view over any as the top 3

By efrim

July 9, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Chase

They wouldn’t get much for any of those guys you mentioned. Teams are going to want Salty or Escobar. Lillibridge has had a bad offensive year in the minors. Andrus is way too young. Thorman has done nothing to help his value and neither has Prado. You could probably get something in return for Brandon Jones and/or Matt Harrison.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Another Compensated Blogger I’m so glad you could take time out from your bomb-throwing at DOB to pick on little ole me. I’m flattered.

By GeorgetownKid

July 9, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts

I agree with your thoughts on what the Braves should do.

1) Trading Escobar and/or Salty would significantly disrupt our offense, as both are major contributors right now. Unless a team were to offer a front-line starter with a few years left on his contract (which I don’t forsee happening), these kids should stay. If nothing else, both have become fan-favorites who could sell a lot of jerseys over the coming years.

2) Our starting pitching situation is certainly flawed, but we are in much better shape than most. We’ve got a top-notch 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation, we’ve got a solid #3 guy who wins more than he loses, and we’ve got several respectable options to fill the #4 and #5 spots. And should we make the playoffs, those #4 and #5 guys will seldom if ever start. If Smoltz can give us 7 innings per start instead of 6, if Carlyle keeps up his performance along with Hudson and James, we’ll be just fine.

3) We cannot afford to completely bench Thorman. He is still a promising young hitter who plays good defense, and if he is to develop at all, he needs to play. And if Salty does become our full-time 1B of the future, Thorman will have no trade-value if he never plays.

4) We do have tradeable commodities in the minors who play positions of depth for the organization, namely relief pitchers and middle-infielders. Lilibrige, Startup, Devine, and Acosta are very intriguing prospects that might fetch decent returns in a trade.

5) Those who float the idea of shopping prospects like Prado, Pena, and Thorman are not being realistic.

If you offer spare parts in a trade, you can’t expect a luxury car in return.

By jed

July 9, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

ron

we’ve seen things differently before (ie, thorman) but i couldnt agree more with your posts today. we all know we’ve got 3 definites in a 5 man rotation (smoltz, hudson, chucky) and 3 possibles to fill two slots (buddy, davies, villareal). buddy’s looked good of late but is still a question mark. davies is an enigma. villareal is a great option that cox—go figure— hasnt explored yet. point being:

trade deadline’s july 31. braves have until then to figure out if davies and/or buddy are for real. (davies is for real, but is he ready this year?)

nobody wants to trade escobar or salty. i think you CAN acquire a solid 3 starter w/out trading those guys. (something along the lines of KJ + prospect is what it’d cost when more teams become sellers. again, i’m a fan of KJ, but escobar impresses me more.)

but as lame as the mets are this year, you COULD plug in villareal as your 4-starter and at least have a run at the NL East. you might even make it past the the lst round of the playoffs. and you will have held on to 2 great players in the process.

what do i expect, though? i think we’ll hold salty, and trade escobar for a decent rental starter plus a lillibridge-type prospect (ie, good, but a few years away.)

at which point, i might prefer ron’s alternative: hold pat, put villareal in the rotation, and let davies & carlyle fight it out for the 5 spot.

By Another Compensated Blogger

July 9, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Protonix-Dude, don’t you know that Munson and the tv dog show are time delayed? So you’re livin’ in the past even when you watch the dogs. But its cool that you don’t know the difference. Means you been mellowin’.

One would hope.

By ppaddy123

July 9, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

HP, what has Eduardo Perez ever done in MLB? Buster Olney just basically slammed the Mets. OMG! I can’t believe my ears!

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

We still need another starter to be a legit contender. What happens is Carlyle goes out and gets bombed by the Pirates and Cardinals? You will all scream for another starter. We need another starting pitcher and a middle reliever.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Efrim… which outfield spot are we likely to have a gaping hole in sooner?

Centerfield. He’s listed simply as an outfielder, so I’m thinking he can adapt, personally. Anyhow, that’s a decent scenrio, anyhow, whether he plays left of center, with Willie moving to center. Problem is, whattaya do with Diaz, if he sticks with us?

By Rick Roberts

July 9, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Agreed that we stand pat and keep our top prospects. The only exception is Thorman if Toronto would let go of one of their SP’s for him. Jo Jo Reyes looked good for his short three innings—he will settle down and pitch well as a #5 SP. Carlyle is tough—just let him know he is the #4 SP and he’ll relax more and be more effective. Smoltz’s injury is key. Hudson and James will throw innings. Bring up Harrison when he is ready which is not far away. Our BP will be fine if SP’s throw 6-7 innings each time out. Move Soriano to closer and now. Wickman’s curve ball has no bite and they just tee off on him.

I’d still trade AJ to the Dodgers—he would go, too. Billingsly and Loney? For once, let’s get something besides a draft pick for a star player that we aren’t going to keep!

The Braves are just plain lucky to be only two games back at the All-Star break. Let’s don’t get complacent—the Mets will take off on a winning streak and could leave the Braves in the dust.

We need to do all we can this year, but not give up minor league prospects. 2008 could be a very good year, hopefully, with Hampton and Gonzalez back on the staff. If, if, they can come back, and with our youngsters gaining more valuable experience, and with more money freed up with AJ leaving, then our future looks bright. We don’t have to gamble all we have on one year like some teams have to.

By George

July 9, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

I agree with most of the post. keep Escobar and Salty. We are only two games behind the muts. If the pitching from James,Davies,Buddy Carlyle,Reyes improves and why not (with major league experience) we will be fine. Why trade for a big contract pitcher who may go sour when he puts on a braves uniform. at least we know what we have. give it a little time. Love this blog. don’t post often but enjoy reading your comments.PS Andruw.. its about what you do the rest of the season..has little to do about another pitcher.. altho that would be nice. I guarantee we would be 6 games up on the mets if you Andruw had played up to your potential. You are a great player win this division for us.

By Another Compensated Blogger

July 9, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Protonix-Dude, mmmmmelllllowwwww. Livin’ like that will only raise your blood pressure. And since you saw the first Atlanta Braves game ever, that it is a salient issue.

Chill.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

ACB Why don’t you get back to your autobiography on boogers?

By ppaddy123

July 9, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of giving Villareal a shot a starting. Can he possibly be worse than any of our other starters at the bottom of the rotation? Use 3 guys in the 4-5 slots and hope one gets a hot hand.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Hey Braveheart: Break out that list. I’m going to take ‘em all on in one day!

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Here’s something that no one seems to be paying attention to probably because Leo Mazzone is no longer with us: Guys like Peter Moylan, Tyler Yates and Chad Paronto and Ocsar Villarreal have found a niche with the Braves.

All these guys were either pulled off the scrap heap or are young guys organizations thought wouldn’t amount to anything more than warm bodies they could throw out there every now and then.

The Braves organization continues to work their magic with these type of guys, continuing the tradition Mazzone started.

Maybe Bobby Cox had more to do with building a bullpen out of castoffs than we realized while Leo Mazzone was here.

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Bradon Jones isn’t a center fielder. The Braves would put Frenchy there before they put Brandon Jones there. He has played left field in Double A. Brandon Jones is trade bait. Lets use him to acquire a starter.

By glove51

July 9, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

My .02$: Under no circumstances can you trade both Escobar and Salty.

As mentioned, the Braves currently have as urplus of middle infield talent. So the obvious answer would be to trade Escoabr or possibly Kelly Johnson (or Lillibridge, but you would proabbly get less for Lillibridge).

Johnson would seem to be more of a proven commidty batting iwse, though Escobar has more upside. Plus Escobar has more value as a fielder because hs is a rocket armed SS. Escobar is also sort of a “flavor of the moment” sicne he as looked so good thus far. His trade value is probably as high is it is likely to get in the near term.

Johnson will get on base, he has proven as much, and plays a serviceable or slghtly better 2B and will likley get better. His tarde value, though, to msot teams would be something less than Escobar’s.

Another option is to trade Saltalamacchia, who has great value to many otehr teams as a big strong switch-hitting catcher. Salty could play 1B and help there, but the more he plays 1B and NOT catcher, the more his trade value diminishes. His bat is not quite as impressive as a 1B as it is as a catcher. Plus Pena is certainly serviceable as back-up catcher, and McCann is Atlanta’s catcher for the foreseeable future, barring injury..

If Salty is traded you could keep Escobar and play him at 2B, SS and 3B. Next year ask Chipper to play 1B. he cans tillo play 3B pretty well, but playign 1B might decrease his injuries some and allow Escobar to play 3rd full time.

The wildcards are possibly trading Renteria now or doing nothing. Rentera would get good trade value because he is still hitting very well an dhas fielded his position well this year and his salary is very affordable for one more year for a player of his caliber. I do not think this team can afford to trade a plyer of Edgar’s maturity with his leadership qualities, but if the brass decdies we really need a quality pithcer, they may consider it.

Doing nothing may eb an option. The Braves are only 2 back and have a favorable schedule after the break. Chucky has pitched well last few turns and Carlyle has been pretty good most of his starts for a 4th or 5th starter. Davies is Davies. He pitches really well about every 6th start. Thing is he pitches pretty well most of his starts, EXCEPT FOR ONE BIG INNING!

It my depend on what Smoltz does his first couple of turns after the break. If he looks well, JS & Co. may decide they can keep both Escobar and Salty and stay pat with what they already have. They have to believe that both Andruw and McCann will do better after the break than they did before, and probably Francouer will hit for more power.

I think the most liekley scenario is theyy make a move and Escobar is probably the most likely to get traded. I personally would probably trade Salty first if I felt it was necessary to make a move and I was getting enough STARTING PITCHING value.

I don’t think this team needs another bat.

If someone put a gun to my head, I would say they need to make a deal, but it needs to be someone of quality who will be here at least in 2008.

By Another Compensated Blogger

July 9, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Protonix-Dude, That’s not cool harshin’ on jimmy, man.

And I think Lew was wrong to even acknowledge you. Lew’s got class. He’s real old and knows a lot of stuff and he paints the Whirly-Bird. But he should’ve turned the other cheek when you started unmellowin’ the blog’s mellow.

So just start chillin’ dude.

By Lew

July 9, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Efrim-I’m not real sure why you think Carlyle will bomb out against the Pirates or Cards. The guy has started 8 games for the Braves. In five of those games he went 6 or more innings. In a sixth he was burned after 3 scoreless by an hour and a half rain delay. Only in two starts, his first in how many years against the Phillies when their bats were hot and the loss to the Red Sox, one of, if not the most, awesome offensive team in baseball. The man has performed way past our wildest dreams and has been all that can be asked for in a four or five starter. I only see his confidence growing by leaps and bounds. What more could you want from a bottom of rotation pitcher? I don’t see us getting anyone better and if such is the case, why give up a player that could help us now and later? Davies is the real question mark-not Carlyle. If you subtract his Phillies/Red Sox starts, Carlyle’s ERA is 3.00. You won’t get anyone better than that.

By ppaddy123

July 9, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

I agree with DOB about Reyes. I think he gets one more start then back to the minors to work on specific things. He looks good but throws way too many pitches. I think we will see Reyes and Harrison next year. Willie Harris continues to impress me. Anyone see the catch he made last night? Man he can fly! The Braves have 4 starting outfielders. Both leftfielders are hitting over 300. I like Diaz, but when you here “Home boy” tried to sell him to Japan in the off season, it make me wonder…..

By JasonInMaine

July 9, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

You said:

“Maybe Bobby Cox had more to do with building a bullpen out of castoffs than we realized while Leo Mazzone was here.”

I couldn’t agree more, and I have offered the same opinion over and over. If one listened to what any of the pitchers themselves have said, one would come to the same conclusion. I am not saying that Leo didn’t have an influence; he did. But Bobby has the bigger influence, and it is all part of the overall environment he creates.

Regards,

Jason

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

ACB There was someone on here(?) the other day talking about bloggers with “cyberballs”. IOW, people who are real big men when they are behind a keyboard. If he wasn’t taling about you, he should have been.

By MGL

July 9, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

With the starting pitching uncertainties, I think that Cox should keep 13 pitchers on the roster for the near term. If he would release Woodward and bring up Brayan Pena, it could strengthen the offense, allow Salty to play more at first, and improve the bench. There would be enough versitility to cover all the positions.

By jed

July 9, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

shaun

i cant believe i’m saying this, but that’s an astute observation (2:41). mazzone got way too much credit when he was here. that’s not a knock on mazzone, either—just that it became popular amongst blabbering baseball writers to call him a genius.

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

He was a journeyman. He has been great for us. But don’t expect it every time out. Check his stats against left handed batters. They are hitting .329 against him with a .999 OPS. The Braves need a starter to eat up innings. You can’t argue it.

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

At the very least, lets get another set up guy.

Please JS. Do not stand pat. Make this team better in any way that you can. We have pieces to deal other than Salty and Escobar. Bradon Jones, Matt Harrison, Joey Devine.

By N8

July 9, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

“Joe Morgan, Dusty Baker, Eduardo Perez, and Steve Phillips hate the Braves. Period. John Kruk is the only “baseball guy” on ESPN that will “painfully” acknowledge the Braves.”

Are you kidding me? Steve Phillips might “hate” the Braves, but being the GM for the Muts, while the Braves thoroughly dominated the NL East, might have humbled him, he surely RESPECTS the Braves.

If I recall correctly, Steve Phillips was the ONLY person at ESPN who picked the Braves to not only win the East, but go to the WS.

Steve Phillips might be a moron (or best case scenario, a bad GM), but he definitely knows which organization whooped his azz for all those years, and he ALWAYS talks about how good Bobby and JS are, and how classy the Braves organization was/is. I have NEVER heard a bad word about the Braves (that wasn’t true - for instance, him saying Andruw Jones is having a bad year - would NOT be a false statement).

Gammons is the same. Buster Olney pretty much is a straight shooter.

Now Carl Ravich and Dusty Baker, you may be on to something. But having said that, I’m not so sure that I’ve heard Dusty “diss” the Braves either.

Face it. We’re a barely over .500 team in a pretty pizz poor division. Explain to me, WHY Fox, ESPN or CNN should lead off their sports highlight shows with the Atlanta Braves?

Or are all of you forgetting that all of the pundits, and “preview” magazines used to CONTINUOUSLY pick the Braves to win the world series every year, AND leadoff their highlight shows with the Braves games?

You all are acting as though you’re David Coverdale and you can’t figure out WHY Whitesnake wasn’t nominated for a Grammy in 2007?

It doesn’t/wouldn’t matter if the Braves were from the east coast, west coast, north pole, south pole, africa, or bermuda. Had they won MORE THAN ONE WORLD SERIES in the 90’s, the national media would STILL be talking about them.

Strange that the Buffalo Bills are from NY, yet I don’t see THEM getting extra media coverage. Seems NOBODY has been interested in talking about them since 1993. I wonder why that is?

I’m sorry, to be an azz. I just don’t think that the rest of the free world is out “to get” the Atlanta Braves and their fanbase.

My KC Chiefs don’t have a Monday night game scheduled this year, even though they arguable have the 2nd best RB in the NFL with Larry Johnson. They are however, going with a 2nd year QB (Brodie Croyle), who is NOT the “toast of the NFL”, never has been. So why on earth would the NFL want them on Monday night? They don’t.

It’s the same thing on the KC Star message boards. “The NFL hates the Chiefs… wah, wah, wah!!!”

Nope. The team just isn’t that marketable, much less good. I didn’t see any Chiefs fans moaning when they had 4 or 5 “national” games in 2005. Apparently the NFL wasn’t out to get them that year.

HOW MANY TIMES were the Braves the first game Broadcast on ESPN on opening day? How many Sunday night games did we get over the years?

Yeah. ESPN hates the Braves.

Make no mistake, I’m not an ESPN lover. Their programming has gone downhill for years. What used to be cute and entertaining humor, is now redundant babbling (similar to some of my posts), in fact the ONLY thing I really like to watch on ESPN, is the WS of Poker shows.

But I’m surely not surprised that a network that has been built and run on marketing and appealing to the masses, would NOT be interested in the Atlanta Braves and their 47-42 record, much less ANYBODY in the NL League.

Just my take. Rag away.

By Lee

July 9, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

MGL

Agree completely with your 2:58 post.

By ACB

July 9, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Protonix-Dude, Don’t go tryin’ to sneek a peek at someone’s balls. Waaaayyyy uncool.

You do get a mellow point for ACB (that’s so much shorter than Another Compensated Blogger). Thanx.

So just take your meds and drift on off to real-quiet-dude-land.

Lew, Buddy is a burst of good energy, especially for the price. The Brave ones should give him some anti-anxieties like the ones he popped last night. Must be a west coast thing.

By Chop Chop

July 9, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

I couldn’t care less if ESPN fails to talk about the Braves. If the Braves overtake the Mets and beat them into the ground, they’ll get the recognition. Besides, we talk about the Braves enough on here to far outweigh anything the boys in Bristol could produce.

(However, after this year, when TBS stops showing Braves games to a national audience…well, let the justified whining commence, I say. The Braves certainly won’t get much national play unless they’re winning if they’re not on TBS. ESPN will decide that there are no Braves fans left to intermittently placate because they’re not a “national” team like the Cubs, Yanks or Red Sox. I can’t wait to see the complaints on this blog next year. Should be fun.)

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t even need my meds to go zzzzz. All I need is to read your posts.

By Miller

July 9, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

I have to believe even with all that has happen in the first half that we have all the pitching we need to get into the playoffs. Unless something happens to Smoltz I believe we have enough. I also believe that if Buddy or Davies can’t cut it (which I think they will) that Oscar should be given a chance. If a trade is needed then we should use the players in our farm system and if that is not enough then stand pat. We have improved from last year and although I would love to get back into the playoffs this year I don’t think that giving up current talent is the answer. JS you did a great job of making the BP better over the winter break, I have complete faith that you will be able to do the same with our inadequacies of this year to help build a true contender next year. Lets see how the youngsters due for the rest of the season (they have already helped place the team in contention) then evaluate and move forward after the season. And if the Bravos do get into the playoffs we will be able to reap from the experience they have gained in more ways than one.

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

jed and Jason in ME,

I don’t think we can blame anyone for giving Mazzone more credit than he deserved. He did a remarkable job and it looks like he’s continuing his good work in Baltimore.

Bedard, Loewen, Guthrie, and Burres are all pitching very well under Leo.

I agree, Mazzone was great but I’ll take Cox as my manager over Mazzone as my pitching coach, given a choice. And who knows how great Roger McDowell is? Maybe he should be getting some credit for those guys in the bullpen.

By Chief

July 9, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I’m not worried…..

We have Willie Aybar and Mike Hampton!

Somewhere ….

By FSU Braves fan

July 9, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

I am not one to post usually, however i may start…my real problem with alot of things I have read is how “o the mets are better than us or wait for the mets to get healthy and take off etc etc.” no harm meant i you said that, I ‘m not trying to call anyone out….anyways why don’t we, braves fans look at it this way, we are 2 games out at the break, even though Andruw has done very little, Chipper has been out for a few weeks, and a horrible team slump of 2 weeks where no one could hit the ball…perhap is the mets who should watch out, because if chip remains healthy, and if Andruw comes around and raises his batting average to say .230s we are a very capable team of taking off on our own 6 or 7 game winning streak….the mets don’t scare me I think everyone, bloggers, and espn especially make them out to be this big bad wolf when in reality, look at their record, their shaky starting rotation and their bullpen (minus wagner)…to be fair they may have more question marks than the bravos do…..so in conclusion i think it i time for us to stop looking for reasons to scream for trades or to concede to the big bad mets when in reality what do they have that we dont? other than a reyes…who i don’t care what you say is not good enough to beat the braves on his own or any other team for that matter

By DAP

July 9, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

N8 since i called you out earlier when people were complaining about the national broadcasts, ill back you up now…i agree with you and dont think ESPN should give tons of attention to the braves…i dont really care that much if they do, or if they hate the braves, or whatever. i hate it when the braves games are on ESPN just because the announcers suck.

By ppaddy123

July 9, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

N8, as we are here talking about Atlanta Braves baseball my coments are totally relevent to this blog. Your comments lamenting the poor treatment of your KC Chiefs just adds fuel to the fire as to how poorly the major sports media treats the sports fans that don’t live in the northeast. But as I’m speaking directly about treatment of the ATlanta Braves I stand by my previous statement.

By AthensBrave

July 9, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

My only worry for the second half: Minaya spends big for another pitcher and Pedro comes back soon. That would give them a solid rotation to go w/ their capable offense. To keep up, we would have to go shopping for arms.

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

If Brodie Croyle could never stay healthy in college, how is he going to stay healthy for an entire NFL season? Don’t see it happening. Dude was at Bama for 5 years and had more injuries than times he was ever seen in a weight room. Good QB. But a pretty boy who has never lifted a weight.

By ACB

July 9, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Protonix-Dude, Glad I could return the favor.

By parks

July 9, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

FSU Braves fan great post! Could not agree with you more.

By P-Town Brave

July 9, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Just checked out Millwood’s contract and he would be EXTREMELY low cost given what his contract states, IF we don’t have to give up Salty or Escobar, which I don’t assume we would…We may be able to get away w/ giving up Prado, KK, and a minors pitcher..Anyways, here’s what it says:

07:$7.5M, 08:$8.5M, 09:$11M, 2010:$12M

* combined total of 540 IP 2007-09, or
* combined total of 360 IP 2008-09, or
* 180 IP in 2009

Unfortunately, his agent as you know, also Scott Boras.

Also, regardless of where he goes, Texas will be paying his 15 mil signing bonus from 2011-2015

By Shaun

July 9, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

AthensBrave,

I’m not sure the Mets have a prospect required to make a deal for a big-time pitcher. Money doesn’t help at this point, as DOB pointed out. All the good pitchers are under contract with other teams.

The Braves are the team with the desirable young players if a big time pitcher becomes available.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

July 9, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon folks, Wow, it’s a hot one here today. 100 degrees and humid. How did we ever survive without air-conditioning? Thank you Lord for allowing me to not have to toil in this heat…

Now baseball as that great scribe Jimmy Smith likes to say. By the way JJS, it would be nice if you would re-post the great song you wrote yesterday. The weekend blog appears to have melted down.

One game does not a season make but if last night was any indication of Kyle Davies’ upside. We can all rest a little easier. I mentioned it to the blog prior to Buddy Carlyle’s call up of what you could expect from him. He is not a guy that is going to throw no hitters but if he can get out of the first inning, he will give you a quality start.

I am not sure what can be done to get him past his tendency to get hit hard early but that is what happens with him.

My humble opinion is that the only pitcher the Braves will get will be from team that a none contender and is willing to drop for the sake of payroll. I think the Braves would be willing to pay the freight for someone who will get them to the playoffs.

With that being said, Bobby Cox hates to give up good young players. I mentioned it before. Esdcobar is expendable, Salty is not.

On Thorman, his defense is getting better, if he would dump those thin handled bats he is using and go to a thick handled model like Jackie Robinson used, his batting average would jump 100 points.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

July 9, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

And one more thing….. I am glad someone else noticed how well Tony Pena is doing with the Royals. Of course playing everyday has a lot to do with his continued improvement. I used my allotted All-Star votes for him as I think he is a great shortstop.

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, it’s been my experience that those who say they know they’re crazy are less crazy than those who listen to them.

However, while I think something will be done, regardless of how unadvised it might be … I do agree that pragmatically, doing nothing is prudent.

Pro-tonix,

My primary exposure to the Crackers ran from KiKi Kyler through Clyde King with Dixie Walker and Whitlow Wyatt being my favorites though I enjoyed Mauch’s spirit and seeing his face turn bright red.

I knew and liked Eddie too as Mr. Mann frequented our church and was a friend of my father and Eddie stayed about a block from us up on Barnett Street while he played in Atlanta … but it’s strange how many people pick him as their favorite since he wasn’t with us all that long.

I didn’t really dislike Tanner but he was different from most of those I met … and a good player too.

No, I was thinking more of those who you liked that I might identify with more as Crackers than as Braves … Summerville’s “Country Brown” was my favorite, and especially liked Gene Verble and Willie Mathis; also … Al O’Quinn, Ebba St. Clair, Al Flair, Davy Williams, “I can’t hit a curveball” Bob Montag, sleeveless Paul Rambone, Al Flair, and my favorite home run hitter Dick Donovan.

I didn’t care too much for the Torre brothers but liked Art Fowler, Leo Cristante, and Roy Hartsfield too.

Mr Appling’s playing days in Atlanta was more than a decade before I began following the Crackers but from what I got from talking to Mr. Mann, he wasn’t all that good when he played for the Crackers.

I don’t know that Mr. Engle would acknowledge Mr. Mann as the master, but he sure knew baseball, gave me my first official ball and he let me sit with the team when they came to Church when I was 10 so I’ve been an Earl Mann fan for most of my life.

By All Spin Zone

July 9, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

Make no moves. Let the core of young position players who are on the same “maturity track” stay together for a few years. (Francouer, McCann, Johnson, Salty, Escobar) Throw in Willie Harris and Matt Diaz. Pray Chipper can stay healthy and give you a couple more productive years. With any luck, This team could be something special in a year or two.

Pitching? There lies the problem. Davis? James? Carlyle? All iffy. Cheap, but iffy. Smoltz and Hudson? Probably not even around when this team reaches it’s full potential. Jo Jo Reyes? Who knows? Matt Harrison? We’ll see.

I would rather have the winter, free of the “heat of battle”, to start addressing some of our pitching woes. Where other teams would rape us now for Salty or Escobar, perhaps the Lillebrige and Elvis Andrus (and dare I say Thorman) types might get us the same value as Salty and Escobar would now, if we are patient and wait for the off season to do business . More of a buyers market in the winter than right now.

Hope for miracles. Cross your fingers. Carry a rabbit’s foot. With any luck this team might just make the playoffs as is. But even if we get a mid rotation guy, there are no guarantees that this team will make the playoffs. I feel if the core of young studs can stay together, they may have a real shot at contending for a World Series championship in a couple of years. If you trade Escobar and Salty, you may weaken your chances of having a really special team in the near future.

Don’t trade potential stars for a mediocre pitching solution that may or may not even get you to the playoffs.

Just my opinion

By Chase

July 9, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

LEW

EFRIM is so pessimistic we can never get through to him WITH ANYTHING POSITIVE!

EFRIM…. Lilibridge and Prado are still considered top Major League Prospects! And I THINK WE COULD GET A #4 TYPE STARTER from a NON-CONTENDING SELLING TEAM (ie Rangers/Reds)

By bobby black

July 9, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

Right now I don;t think Davies is the greatest thing since RC’s and moon pies, but Glavine and Smoltz didn’t exactly dazzle anyone their first couple of years.

By ACB

July 9, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Bob-Dude, I am mucho crazy myself. And I dig your circular obliqueness. It resonates well in a mellow-deprived world. Rock on, Bob!

By Chop Chop

July 9, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Hey! Here’s another Frisco song!

Lights by Journey

When the lights go down in the city

And the sun shines on the Bay

Oh, I want to be there in my city

Oooooooooo-oh…oh-ooh-whoa

So you think you’re lonely

Well, my friend, I’m lonely, too

I want to get back to my city by the Bay-ee-yay

Ooooooo-oh, oh-ooh-whoa

It’s sad, oh, there’s been mornings out on the road without you

Without your charrrrrrrrrrrrms

Oh-ooh-whoa-oh, my, my, my…oooooooooh-oo-oh, oh-ooh-whoa

(As badly as this song sucks, it’s fun to type out. I want to give a shout-out to Rock 103 in Albany, GA for constantly beating this garbage into my head when I’m sitting on the can. I can’t thank you enough, so I won’t.)

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

It is unfortunate. This team, position player wise, will reach its full potential in year 2010. Too bad Smoltz won’t be around. Hudson will be no better than a #3 at that time. James a #4. This team is going to have to go out and acquire a young starter who has the potential to be an ace.

Hopefully pitchers like Tommy Hanson, Neftali Feliz, and Jamie Richmond pan out.

By ESPN

July 9, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Biased? Not ESPN. Next year, instead of The Bronx Is Burning, ESPN will air Atlanta Is Burning. Filming starts as soon as we find someone to play Sherman.

By AthensBrave

July 9, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Shaun, Ah, good to hear. I should of read the blog again…..guess I’m worry-free

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

*Lilibridge and Prado are still considered top Major League Prospects! And I THINK WE COULD GET A #4 TYPE STARTER from a NON-CONTENDING SELLING TEAM (ie Rangers/Reds) *

Chase, Prado is a top major league prospect? Lillibridge has ability and will most likely be a good player, but Prado is going to get you Bronson Arroyo???

What do you think Lillibridge would get you?

Aaron Harang???

Keep dreaming man.

By journalist jimmy smith

July 9, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

some will remember jimmy smith lobbying for tony pena, jr earlier. tony pens, jr could play several positions (very, very well) and was fast! not much stick, though. and now tony pena, jr is beginning to hit!

new song almost ready. what rhymes with hammock bone? oh, never mind there is no hammock bone in the song.

and dob will not let jimmy smith provoke dob today. could the little woman be in san francisco for the all-star game? (expense account should be carefully scrutinized for canned hams) and what’s so bad about a girlfriend on a walker? gets priority seating on the aisle.

and now, crackers … cheez its are a favorite of journalists.

By raindawg722

July 9, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

I basically agree with you. If the Braves could trade at least one Salty/Escobar that would guarantee they go to the World Series they should do it even if it meant giving up the next A-Rod. My point mainly is that I do not think that kind of trade is out there.

Also, it is one thing when the next A-Rod is in your farm system as opposed to on your big league team. Those two guys are making up a decent chunk of the offense right now. We could maybe lose one of them, but if we lost them both, presumably in a trade for a pitcher, we would need to get some offense somewhere to make up for that lost production.

Finally, not that either one of those guys is the next A-Rod, but would you give up two of the next A-Rods if it meant that you were guaranteed to get you to the World Series? I think that I might take a pass on this year’s World Series knowing that I could expect to have cheap, amazing production in the middle of my lineup for the next couple of years that could give me a pretty good run.

By N8

July 9, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Since this is a Braves blog, I won’t bore you or anybody else with my Chiefs thoughts. But I agree with Croyle. The kid has an arm. He seems pretty cool under pressure. But he was injured a lot. So I have the feeling the NFL might not be a kind place for him.

But after YEARS of the Chiefs taking other teams retreads at QB (mostly ex-49rs - DeBerg, Montana, Bono, Grbac), and more recently Trent Green, (Ironically the one guy the “let go” - Rich Gannon - took their division rival Raiders to the SB!), I’m just finally happy that they drafted somebody and are intending on playing them. True rebuilding, which I’m OK with. Not too much different than what the Braves have done with the limited payroll.

And similarily, I’m sure I (as a Chiefs fan) have a few LOOOOONG seasons ahead of me.

I just think that as fans, we are obviously biased to our teams. Even those of us that complain about things. Similar to the Braves only having 1 WS victory, my Chiefs we’re essentially the Braves on the 90’s (afte the Bills), by being thoroughly DOMINANT in the regular season, and never getting to the SB, much less winning it.

The ironic thing with the Chiefs is, that I read last year, that they are one of like 5 franchises to NOT have won a playoff game since 1993 (when Montana took them to the AFC Championship game), along with the Browns, Lions, and a couple others I’m forgetting.

That doesn’t seem possible for an NFL team that is usually associated with success, like KC is. ONE FRICKIN playoff victory in the last 15 seasons. YIKES. Three times they had a 13-3 record and homefield througout, and went “1 and done”.

Yes. It was painful to be a Chiefs and Braves fan in the post season in the 90’s. LOL!

The funny thing is in the NFL, they base the “national” broadcast games, based on the previous year’s records and playoff teams. But that league is so evenly divided with the talent, that the dynasties are essentially over, so there ALWAYS seems to be 5 or 6 completely worthless matchups on MNF late in the year. Which is why I don’t mind the “flex-schedule” that they are incorporating to pick and choose their matchups later in the year. It’s really smart marketing if you think about it. But I’m sure the fans of the teams that get “pulled” from national broadcast games, are NOT gonna be happy when they get dissed in November and December.

Even look at the Braves. Didn’t they just recently have a game that was “changed” to the Sunday night game, which prompted Bobby to complain about the schedule changing? Shouldn’t Bobby and the Braves be “happy” that they are getting national attention? (sarcasm).

Obviously the FANS care about that crap more than the players. They (players) know that if they do their jobs, the national media will follow.

Look at the Tigers last year. Until then, who the hell was talking about Detroit, when a punch line wasn’t involved?

Earn it on the field, and the credibility and recognition will come.

Even if I hated ESPN, which I really don’t (actually very neutral on the subject - just don’t think they deserve all the flack they get), shouldn’t we as Braves fans just be HAPPY that the game was actually on TV, so those of us without Sports South (or whatever the hell it’s called now), can see them play, since TBS has NO INTEREST in showin their games anymore?

Hit the mute button on the TV if you don’t like the announcers. LOL!

By ACB

July 9, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Chop-Chop-Dude, I’m tearin’ up. Why can’t Steve Perry and the rest of Journey just be Journey, Man. The Sopranos dig’em. And so does everybody else.

Exalted DOB, do you have any contacts that might be able to convince Steve Perry and the Boys to re-unite for the good of humanity? (Oh, the humanity!!!)

Please, DOB, dennyzenns all over the world await your action. It’s all up to you.

By Baron

July 9, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

I’ll bite on some of the outstanding questions of the day:

1. JS, if for some bizarre reason you do waste time reading this circle jerk of a blog, please do not “mortgage the future” for a renta-pitcher. I vote for patience and a great young team of homegrown talent any day o the week.

2. It is time to promote Soriano to the closer. One thing he does better than anyone I’ve seen lately is strand base runners. Wickman, not so much. Even at his best Wicky gives up a hit and/or a walk pretty much every time out. He almost always allows inherited runners to score. What I don’t like is if/when Soriano pitches the 8th, and Wick gets in trouble in the 9th, I always think, too bad we shot our Sori-load already!

3. Joe Morgan is a terrible analyst. Period. See: firejoemorgan.com for numerous moments of Joe-larity.

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

N8, if he is healthy and they are patient with him, the painful years won’t be too many. The key is health and patience. Agree completely with everything else you are saying on the national media bias.

By Chase

July 9, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

EFRIM

PLEASE READ CLEARLY!

I didn’t say that they’d GET US AN ACE

I said a #4 TYPE VETERAN STARTER!!!

ARROYO is 3-9 With a 4.38 ERA and the REDS have said almost everyone is available!

You don’t think a COUPLE OF “GOOD” PROSPECTS are worth a 3-9 Pitcher? Especially for a team that is in FIRE SALE MODE?!

GIMME A BREAK EFRIM!

By Marc

July 9, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of beefing up the bullpen more and taking our chances with our starters. I dunno why we got Ledzma (sp?). Trade him and Prado for an Al Reyes or something. What good is having 8 relievers if you’re only confident in 5 or 6?

By Chop Chop

July 9, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

ACB,

Journey can’t just be Journey anymore. After all, our world is filled with misery and suffering. Journey is like a delicate flower tenuously rooted in an unforgiving plain of desolation and recrimination. All we can do is gaze upon that flower and its lovely petals and pray for salvation.

Don’t stop believin’.

By Jared

July 9, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Why do people keep saying “Saltalamacchia and Escobar” as if they’re equally good? It’s not even close. Saltalamacchia is a future star and Escobar is a future utility player. Sell high on Escobar and kill off that stupid second base platoon. It’s a win-win.

How about Escobar for Matt Morris? It makes too much sense.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

ABC(you’re simple, so is that) Sorry to be so long in answering your latest brainf&*t. I had to get some more toilet paper, to handle your post(s). Also, I was feeding the dog. BTW, have you fed your rat?

By ACB

July 9, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

jimmy is in the house!!!

jimmy, maybe a ‘little’ canned ham can persueade his DOBness to start lobbying for Journey. We know you have a canned ham source. For the good of all humanity (oh, the humanity!!!), please, jimmy please, let that ham rain down on DOB!!!

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Chase,

Prado and Lillibridge wouldn’t get us Bronson Arroyo. It wouldn’t.

By songwriter jimmy smith

July 9, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

another johnny cash favorite … journalist has taken some liberties.

I was toting my bat along the long dusty ballpark tunnel

When along came jeff porter in a little golf cart ambulance

if your goin’ to the clubhouse, hoss with me you can ride

And so I climbed into the cart and then I settled down inside

He asked me if I’d seen a season with so much pain and hurt

And I said, “Listen! I’ve had every pain in this here land!”

Uh, I’ve hurt everywhere, man

I’ve hurt everywhere, man

Hurt in my obliques, man

I’ve had a painful toe, man

Of pain I’ve had my share, man

I’ve hurt everywhere

Uh, I’ve hurt here:

quad

toe

hand

fist

thumb

other quad

back

wrist

neck

other thumb

ankle

other wrist

Uh, I’m a hurter

I’ve hurt everywhere, man

I’ve hurt everywhere, man

Felt the pain of hell, man

I’ve been on the DL, man

Of pain I’ve had my share, man

I’ve hurt everywhere

Uh, I’ve hurt everywhere

By Spinelli

July 9, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

Since there are really no good top starters either available or affordable how about we go get someone like Jimmy Goble from KC (Prado), Wandy Rodriguez fom Houston (Hernandez), or Rodrigo Lopez from Colorado (Prado)?

By Spinelli

July 9, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

If John Garland became available I would definantly give up Escobar for him. I know there would have to be another player (perhaps Devine or Boyer)going as well. Garland makes good money but is signed and could be used to possibly build a rotation around with the young guys coming up

By Coach ( Dripping With Sarcasm)

July 9, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Here is what O’Brien neglected to tell you. Over that last 9-4 run the team ERA was 4.03 and even worse , the last ten games leading up to the All-Star break the Braves team ERA was 4.97. Yikes ! Hardly the kind of performance we wanted to see. Why are the Mets getting all the ink , you ask ? Because they have Oliver Perez 7-6 3.14 ERA , Jorge Sosa 7-3 3.92 (who would have seen that coming ) and Pedro Martinez coming back. Throw them in the mix with Tom Glavine 7-6 4.36 ERA , John Maine 10-4 2.71 ERA and Orlando Hernandez(El Duque) 4-4 3.22 ERA and you have a six deep pitching staff that the Braves cannot match. Who will the Braves add , you ask ? NADA , NOTHING , what you see is what the Braves will go to war with the rest of the season. My optimism is obvious isn’t it ?

By All Spin Zone

July 9, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Jered, this is a serious question.

Jared. this is a serious question. What do you think about Kelly Johnson?

By Efrim

July 9, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Chase,

Arroyo was 14-11 with a 3.29 ERA LAST YEAR.

This year he is 3-9 with a 4.84 ERA.

He is signed to a team friendly contract. I think he makes something like 4 million a year. I doubt Cincy would trade him to the Braves for a minor league SS and minor league 2B when they just signed Alex Gonzalez to a three year 15 million dollar deal. They also have Brandon Phillips.

By glove51

July 9, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Jared:

Saltalamacchia has more trade value to most teams than Escobar because of his switch-hitting bat as a catcher. However, his value as 1st baseman is less due to his middling power. He is a middle of the road to slightly better 1st baseman offensively unless he hits consistently .320+. He is already an upper echelon hitter as a catcher if he could keep up his present good work on a full-time basis.

We could play Chipper at 1st next year (at least some), which I belive might prolong his career through reduced risk of injury. Escobar could play 3rd, escpecially against lefties and Thorman would get some playing time against righties at 1st. Escobar could spot start at SS and 2B as well.

Of course, then we are stuck with Thorman, primarily, at 1st for the rest of this season.

I would not do the deal unless we get a quality starter (#3 or better) who would be here at least through 2008.

Atlanta has its young catcher signed for 6 more years. Atlanta/Salty need to both decide if they are ready for him to commit to being a 1st baseman. If yes, then don’t do the deal unless you get soemthing really special. If no, then they will need to trade him at least before 2008 to get real value for him.

By Jared

July 9, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Devine has been so good this year in AA and two major league innings. Keep him and dump Chad “.315 opponent’s batting average” Paronto if/when a reliever must go to make room for a position player.

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

I got your Journey….

Anyway, they’re playing some real music on the stadium P.A. speakers right now in San Francisco. As I sit here looking out at folks filing in, under a brilliant sun with a cool breeze off the bay causing the red, white & blue bunting and the palms beyond left field all to sway, they’re playing U2’s “Where The Streets Have No Name.”

Ya’ll should have seen Barry at the press conference this morning. At least 100 reporters surrounding him at all times for the entire hour. At one point he insisted the he doesn’t think people dislike him.

By rupert

July 9, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

as far as pitching help, the name to keep an eye on his javier vasquez of the chisox, the braves have always been really high on him going back to his days at montreal, have to ask DOB what his contract looks like, but as we found out with boston, the right players included in the deal could help lessen the burden, shooting from the hip on this one, but a combo of lillibridge and/or prado, reyes or harrison, and maybe boyer or startup, might get it done.

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, speaking of crackers, as I already have … what did you think of Jim Woods? I doubt if very many here remember him.

Forgive any errors … I’ve a cracked lens and this ain’t easy!

Jim was high on my list of favorites, … though I didn’t mention him … do you remember Jim? Maybe before your time … early 1950’s … thought he might be kin, same first name and all.

Thinking back on Eddie Mathews, in 1951, I think … it was painful to watch him learning to play third, even for me as a kid, … painful for him too, I imagine. Shy and bashful Eddie, Daddy called him and methinks he was.

He took more punishment blocking balls with his body than Brian does behind the plate … but he could hit; well maybe it wasn’t quite that bad, but out in the left field bleachers they would bet on whether he would cleanly field balls hit to him.

When we played baseball among ourselves, I was always Gene Verble or Country Brown … a slightly better centerfielder than a shortstop, I could drag bunt almost like Country but it took me longer to get to first than Anudruw after he falls down swinging.

Later!

By Lew

July 9, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Chase-I agree with you, Dude, about Efrim’s rampant negativism, but I’ve got to agree with him-Arroyo is much better than a 3-9 pitcher with a better team and Cincinnati knows that. You won’t pick him up for Prado and Lillibridge. Besides, I doubt they’d want two middle infielders, anyway. Arroyo is a #2-3 starter at the worst. He could be the ace for some teams.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

Mr. Bob: Thanks for the trip down memory lane with the likes of Country Brown, Gene Verble, Whitlow Whatt(?) and expecially Ebba St. Clair. He was one of my favorites and boy could he jack a baseball. I, too, must admit that I remember Jim Woods. He, and the guy whose name excapes me, that proceeded Munson at UGA were two of my favorite announcers.

By Salty

July 9, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop Wow…sounds like Dali’s ‘Guernica’!

By Mo in the boonies

July 9, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

I’ve tried to post on these blogs before but they never show up, but here goes again. I live in the Boonies of Northern Michigan and started watching the Braves because for years, all we could get on TV was either the Cubbies or the Braves. Now we can get the Tigers, but I still remain a Brave fan, however I’m worried about next year, when TBS no longer will carry the games.

I think the only things wrong with the Braves are that they are switched around so much that they never get to become a cohesive team. BC has to many checkers to play with. And they need pitching…maybe a starter or maybe better bullpen ones. I just hold my breath every time the starter gets pulled out in the 6th. And is there an unwritten law that the starter can’t go longer than six, or at the most seven innings? Just because those guys are in the bullpen doesn’t mean they have to use them.

ESPN Miller and Morgan are the absolute pits. But Miller is even more obnoxious than Morgan. The only time I watch ESPN on Sunday nights is when the Braves are on, and I groan because I have to listen to Miller. Occasionally ESPN has a Brave game on a week night, and I don’t know who those announcers are, but they are not near as bad as Morgan and Miller. I also like the Fox announcers. And Chip and Skip.

By Coach ( Dripping With Sarcasm)

July 9, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Including last season , the Braves are 126-125 with a team ERA of 4.48. I don’t know how to interpret that other than M-E-D-I-O-C-R-I-T-Y personified. I have a whole boatload of numbers to back those two stats.

By Salty

July 9, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

DOB Nice SF setting you have to endure there! Glad you get to have some ‘good’ with the oft-times ‘bad’ (e.g., Bonds for an hour, midnight drives to SD…ok, that’s not always bad, but you get the drift!).

By All Spin Zone

July 9, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand something here. Jared made an earlier observation that Escobar was nothing more than a future utility player.

So Jared, you think the Giants will part with Matt Morris for a “future utility player?” Especially when the pool for starters at the trade deadline is so shallow?

By Kentavo

July 9, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

JS never stays pat = even though we may think so. He’ll pick up somebody, maybe not a huge impact player, but he’ll pick up somebody. Always does. Who saw the Daryle Ward acquisition coming last year? What about Farnsworth the year before? Who saw that coming?

By Kentavo

July 9, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

JS never stays pat = even though we may think so. He’ll pick up somebody, maybe not a huge impact player, but he’ll pick up somebody. Always does. Who saw the Daryle Ward acquisition coming last year? What about Farnsworth the year before? Who saw that coming?

By Christy

July 9, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Good Afternoon All. Just because I can’t let all of you have all the fun on this topic.

I believe the discussion started because of how bad an anaylyst Joe Morgan in particular is. I happen to agree with the general concensus there. In fact I do tend to mute his call and turn the radio on. It’s not a matter of knowing more or less baseball or having been a great player. it’s about caring WHICH teams are on the field, which he does not appear to. They are interchangeable to him as long as he has a platform from where to speak on his favorite topics of the day: Himself, Bonds, Himself…

In regards to ESPN in General, it’s not about the worthiness of the Braves in getting national coverage that I’m concerned about, it’s general sports coverage. They focus on select teams - whether it’s a losing Yankees team, a winning BoSox, an Indianapolis Colts Juggernaut or other, they spend excessive amounts of time on those and then little is left to spare, if anything, on other teams who are perhaps not so worthy. When LA was in 1st early in the season, and tearing it up, I was watching Baseball tonight and they devoted 22 minutes of the whole hour to Red Sox and Yankees and all of 3 to LA. It’s not like LA is a small market with an indifferent fan base. And this was the Midnight show, not the early, to justify minimal coverage of the West. If it wasn’t for the fact that their motto is “The World-Wide Leader in Sports” it wouldn’t matter that they hardly cover hockey, give soccer, track, swimming and tennis a mere glance during their seasons, or pay little to no attention to the lower quarter of the baseball standings. But it IS their motto and as a viewer I want better coverage. And yes, I’ve sent comments in, not that they care from small market Atlanta.

On another topic, Ron Roberts - I would add San Fran’s AT&T Park to your list of charmers. I was fortunate enough to sit upper deck one afternoon and enjoy the view out onto to the Bay while enjoying a great game about 5 years ago. Camden Yards still my favorite ball park, but AT&T is a close second.

By pinkygonzales

July 9, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

I don’t dislike Barry Bonds. Truthfully, I don’t and I really don’t think most fans dislike either. And if they do, they don’t know why. And it ain’t about steroids, the dislike. It’s something else.

By MGL

July 9, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Well, the “let’s move Chipper to first idea is back”. Next it will be Crawford.

By Salty

July 9, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Coach St. Louis was pretty darn mediocre, too, until it mattered. That’s really all this is anymore; an effort to stay close and make a run to the playoffs. The real key is, once there, can you be competitive? On paper, the Cards were a resounding ‘No’! The Braves may well be, too, but we’ll cheer them on just the same…and search for the very few positives we can hang our collective hats on! That’s what Braves, or any other positive-oriented fan would do…IMMHO.

By ACB

July 9, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

I got your Journey….

Whooaa.

DOB might have almost sort of sidewaysedly acknowledged my contriboutions to the mellowness of the blog, today!

I’ll never wash my eyes again!!!

Gotta run for a while. Must drink several lite beers while I cheer on my favorite Low A minor league team. They know who I am. They throw me T-shirts every night I’m there.

And jimmy, most excellent song. It made me think of not only Johnny, but his step daughter Carlene, who was married to Nick Lowe, who sang a cover of ‘Live Fast, Love Hard, Die Young’ in his Cowboy Outfit, which was a song by Faron Young, who was a country singer like Johnny. Whooaaa!!!

By All Spin Zone

July 9, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

LOL MGL

By TheSouthernJackAss

July 9, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

I’m sensing the presence of a no good jackal and maybe even a couple trolls…

By TommyP

July 9, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

The Reds aren’t going to give up on Arroyo when it took them this long to get some pitching in Cincy.

New management in Cincy values pitching, hence the horrible deal they made in giving away Kearns and Felipe Lopez last year for bullpen arms.

What the Braves should do is not trade for these high salaried mediocre pitchers that many on here have suggested. IF they give up an Escobar (I don’t see Salty being traded), they’ll need to get back a player in his arbitration years that is controllable for a few years. I’d love to see some names that are close to coming up on arbitration but I’ll betcha John Schuerholz has that list.

By Amber

July 9, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

Lost in the bowels of the blog is a little nugget from Braveheart who pointed out that we’re unlikely to get a big-name pitcher and just need a solid starter. Excellent point! JS is legendary for finding hidden talent - here’s hoping he’s got his eye on someone.

Now N8, you know I love you, but… here’s my opine on ESPN/FOX and Braves/Braves games…

Frankly, the best announcers I’ve heard all year were the group we had one Saturday on FOX. Fair, balanced, informative, interesting yet not intrusive. I don’t care if M&M kiss Braves behind or not, but woe to the novice who tunes into a random baseball game they’re calling. They won’t learn a dang thing except that Joe Morgan has a most annoying “yuk yuk yuk” laugh.

Maybe we should make rules for baseball announcers:

1. Pay attention to the game.
2. Pay attention to the game.
3. Notice what players are on which team, and which team is at-bat currently.
4. Ascertain the correct pronunciation of players’ names where applicable.
5. This is baseball, so keep your talk on-topic.
6. If you are national announcers, balanced and unbiased talk is required. Report in an impartial manner.
7. However, please keep it relevant to the current game.

Can we think of any more?

And for the record, I don’t like most of “our” announcers either. Joe & Chip can’t seem to shut up about what a great team our opposition is, what talent they have, blah blah blah. This is a case when it’s okay to have a little bias towards our team.

I don’t expect national networks to fawn over the Braves, but at least acknowledge great plays, talent, etc.

By heath

July 9, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

All this trade talk, this-n-that…everyone should look at the really important stat here. There are 73 games left for the Braves. As of today, there are, count ‘em, ONLY 17 games left against teams with winning records. Getting to the playoffs should not be the concern here… Doing something in the playoffs should be the concern. If the Braves don’t get an impact starter to help them compete against the AL’s best (with the idea of winning the Series), don’t make a trade at all. Let the kids play…play for next year and the years following.

DOB, you agree?

By heath

July 9, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

All this trade talk, this-n-that…everyone should look at the really important stat here. There are 73 games left for the Braves. As of today, there are, count ‘em, ONLY 19 games left against teams with winning records. Getting to the playoffs should not be the concern here… Doing something in the playoffs should be the concern. If the Braves don’t get an impact starter to help them compete against the AL’s best (with the idea of winning the Series), don’t make a trade at all. Let the kids play…play for next year and the years following.

DOB, you agree?

By Lew

July 9, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

Salty-Sorry, Dude, Guernica was by Picasso, not Dali.

By MurphyRules

July 9, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

Announcers:

Good: Skip Caray, Joe Simpson, Gary Thorne

Terrible: Chip Caray, John Miller, Joe Morgan.

By Lew

July 9, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

Coach-So since we’re a mediocre team, I guess that means they should just pack up and hang it up for the season? Let’s just give up and quit. Coach says it’s over. It must be so. His numbers tell us.

By bfred

July 9, 2007 6:25 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe anyone would back up Joe Morgan. He’s lazy as an announcer, which for anyone trying to watch a game and get a simple, factual account of what is going on is intolerable. If his role is just to make noise, they should play musak. It would be cheaper and we wouldn’t be exposed to Morgan’s factual misstatements and baseless opinions that trump all fact. He may have forgotten more about PLAYING baseball than I’ll ever know, but watching a game these days I have a better understanding of what’s going on through my television than he does sitting in the press box.

And while ESPN obviously owes the Braves nothing, I think it is telling that they will lead with a Mets loss, show some golf, tennis and auto racing, then throw a Braves win in behind Royals/Blue Jays and Rangers/Devil Rays. Doesn’t matter that Braves are two back and gaining; the Yankees have closed to 12 games!

By Chop Chop

July 9, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

Of course, Lew is right about Guernica. Damn that Picasso and his crazy patterns! Damn Generalisimo Franco and Goering’s Condor Legion! Damn Commies fightin’ damn Nazis! Those were the days, dammit!

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

But you gotta admit, he’s finally showing real progress. These numbers don’t lie

A post of no posits, only opines …

The numbers are encouraging but, but I think more importantly, there’s visible evidence that his approach has been modified and he is almost in balance when he takes full swings that miss, a marked change and improvement.

He’s still late, defensive and lunging with many of his attempts to take outside pitches to right, but at least he’s recognizing them better and they’re not being missed or pulled to the shortstop or third as much as he was earlier.

It will probably take some more time for all of the “metal on metal” associated with change to get properly oiled and everything is fluid and natural.

It’s all very encouraging and suspect that his recent success will serve as positive reinforcement and fuel even more improvement. However, there’s always the possibility of reversion under pressure to that with which he is most comfortable … here’s hoping Andruw stays the course, and that he and Terry are now on … and remain on the same page for the rest of the season.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

ESPN does not owe The Braves anything, I think my hatred stems from the fact of the New York/Boston bies ESPN puts on everyone else…And I think the Attitude/Hatred I have for ESPN comes from listening to philly fans degrade the network

Man I can’t believe just about everyone up in here hates on Chip Caray, I was glad he left Chicago and came to the “A”, hella lot better pick than someone like Joe Buck…

By TennesseePaul

July 9, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

Looking at a team’s record in the first half and assuming all is the same in the second half does a disservice to both that team and our team. If the sub .500 team has no shot at improving, then who’s to say we can over come the 2 game deficit? If all teams are assumed to be the same in the second half, we aren’t in the playoffs. We don’t win the division and we don’t take the wild card.
There is a lot of ball left to play and the Braves have to be better than the opponent no matter the opponent. What matters is, we are 2 games out with a little less than half a season left. We still have to play hard every day. We’re going to need big second halves from AJ, McCann, and our starting rotation. We’re going to need our big first half performers to stay hot. These sub .500 teams aren’t given push-over’s. Any team could sweep any team at any time. That’s baseball. And if you let up because you think it’s going to be easy, then you’ll be run over real fast.

Having said all that, the schedule does look favorable. It’s mainly just the central and east we’re playing against. Next half will either be really exciting and fun to watch… or the most depressing sequence of events in recent memory.

And, Joe Morgan is a horrid announcer. No way around it. The best is a Dodger, I’m sorry to say. No one is better than Vin Scully. He is baseball. Smooth, even and in control for the ups and the downs. That’s exactly the mindset for baseball. And he does it all himself. No goofy side-kick. Just Vin, the mic, and baseball. I don’t hate Chip Carry or Joe Simpson. They’re not bad. But I wouldn’t mind one man being the voice of the team and that man being as solid as Vin Scully.

By heath

July 9, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

Blue Jays released Victor Zambrano (45-43, 4.55ERA, 518Ks). I would say that the Braves are more likely to sign him than trade for a pitcher with a positive impact for both today and years to come….. jmo.

By Salty

July 9, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Lew I just wanted to see if anyone really read my stuff…figured if I made glaring mistake, you’d catch it, if anyone did. Even Chop Chop…pretty cool! Another dimension to the blog!

I was lucky enough to see the exhibit in Madrid…they only thing worth seeing at the Museo de Modern Art! Very disturbing…with a hint of hope…incredible work.

By bfred

July 9, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

I also worry about Andruw sticking with what appears to be working. Several years ago he was batting close to .300 at mid-season because we was not overswinging, was taking pitches and hitting the ball the other way, all of the things everyone wishes he would do on a regular basis. The success went to his head, he started trying to pull everything, and wound up in his usual .260 - .270 range (not that I wouldn’t take that right now) at year-end. I’m afraid it’s too late to teach him any new tricks, and at 30 his skills are no longer sufficent to make up for a life-long lack of discipline. I hope he gets hot soon, but don’t expect him to radically change his behavior.

By Jman

July 9, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

I’d trade Yunel 10 times before I’d trade Salty. Why? Because they have Lillibridge and Elvis Andrus waiting. I’ve understood them to be grooming Lillibridge for a possible move to OF. But this Andrus kid should be ready when Renteria leaves next year.

But I’d only trade Yunel if I got a solid #3 starter (Harang, Arroyo, Vazquez) and ONLY if I had them for at least the rest of this season and all of next…Yunel striaght up for Harang…Yunel & another prospect for Arroyo or Vazquez

By gotigers72

July 9, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

Methinks that the Braves should not make any drastic moves, such as trading Salty or Escobar, and here is why. The Braves have played only THREE teams ALL YEAR that have records below .500. The Nationals, the Pirates and the Marlins. They have a losing record to only ONE NL team, the Marlins [5-7]. They have a 43-31 record against NL teams, 4-11 in Interleague play. They have winning records against SEVEN NL teams [38-24 against those teams] that have records of .500 or above, and losing records to ZERO teams in the NL with records of .500 or above. By the way, the Braves didn’t play the White Sox or the Royals, the two worst teams in the AL Central, while the Phillies played both of those teams. Maybe Chipper’s point about unequal schedules is legit.

If they hadn’t stunk up the place against Boston, Detroit and Minnesota, they would be leading the NL East. Be that as it may, they are only TWO games out with the schedule about to be a little more favorable. The key is to make hay against the teams with losing records that they are about to start playing. They are only 14-13 against teams with losing records. Another key is to play better at home, especially these first 10 games after the break. The teams they are playing with losing records are playing better lately. Pittsburgh has won 5 of their last 6, Cincinnati has won 4 in a row, and the Cardinals have also been playing better lately.

Isn’t that amazing that the Braves have played only 3 teams with losing records? If the Braves want to make a trade for a starter, give up some lower level minor league prospects, but not Salty and Escobar. See how things go from Friday until about a week before the trading deadline and then see what’s available. My guess is it won’t be much. Nobody is gonna give up pitching without being overwhelmed, and nobody is going to give up good pitching, period. Do you really think Cincinnati would give up Harang? He is their best pitcher on a staff that is pitching poor. Some of the trades proposed on this board are ridiculous. Be for real.

By TennesseePaul

July 9, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Coach: Including last season , the Braves are

Classic… why stop with last season?
Including the previous 135 years, the Braves are 9837-9699, a .504 Winning Percentage… only 138 games over 500.
Pack it up.

By Pro-tonix

July 9, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

Pro-tonix is leaving the bldg. Jackals and trolls take your shots with impunity.

NEW SUBJECT: Lew, you gave me all I wanted, and more. Hope to stay on your good side from here on out.

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

Coach, I know you think me weak and a liar and I know too how you define mediocre … or at least how you did in your post to me. I won’t reopen that discussion as I don’t want to cause you to get excited as you were once wont to do.

However, I do have a question. In your 5:33, you said you had a boatload of numbers to back the won-loss and aggregate ERA statistics you presented.

Why do you need so many when the supporting information is already summarized and readily available on the Internet?

Suppertime!

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

So a top Braves scout — and I mean a very top one — was at a ballpark last week and said to the PR person, “Can I get media guides for Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Seattle? Gotta do my homework.”

Arroyo? David Weathers? One of Pittsburgh’s lefties? Don’t know, but lot of possibilities….

Oh, I talked to Boras today. Don’t believe what you’re hearing from anyone who believes Andruw would sign a one-year deal with a lot of creative options, etc. Boras is going to get him a long-term contract for a lot of money, from some team or another.

By DAD

July 9, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

Braves fans. After the All Star break, the Mets will get hot and run away with the NL East. Your Braves have too many weaknesses to continue to compete. Andruh Jones will soon slide back into his prolonged slump. Your starting pitching is beginning to fade with Smoltz injured and Hudsons return to mediocricity. Your first baseball is so bad that it is the same as giving your opponent an out every time he bats. Your payroll limitations will keep the Braves from making any major trades. Forget about the playoffs this year Braves fans. Just enjoy the Mets march to the World Seies.

By DAD

July 9, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

I meant “first baseman” instead of “first baseball” in my Blog..

By Wayne in Utah

July 9, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

For those who are concerned about our starting pitching, the Texas Rangers top five starters have the following ERA’s: 5.36, 6.70, 6.69, 6.16, 5.70

So, I guess we aren’t hurting too bad.

I like gotigers idea about waiting until about a week before the deadline, and then see where we are, and who is available.

By TheSouthernJackAss

July 9, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

Should be ADD instead of DAD…you A$sClown…

By bfred

July 9, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, I know you are not likely to be an unwitting accomplice to the Boras spin factory, but do you really believe he would tell you the truth at this point about what other teams are willing to do for Andruw? Boras is the biggest wh0re in a line of work that is lousy with them, and plays the media to his advantage every chance he gets. I wouldn’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

By Tomas

July 9, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

If the season ended today,I think Boras would find it very difficult to find a contract, like the one Vernon Wells has. Fortunately for the Braves he is getting out of the slump, and his season is getting toward that consistent 260AVG, 30HR, 100RBI’s plus. About Jones comments about adding another starter, I completely agree on him, GM should get busy. A good option is Jose Contreras, who is a great pitcher a vet and the White Sox are looking to trade him, specially after they signed Buerhrly to an extention. Maybe a Yunel Escobar for Jose Contreras trade.

By FSU Braves fan

July 9, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

DAD, interesting post…other than the fact I disagree with you in every facet of it other than the fact the the Mets have deeper pockets. Weren’t the big bas mets supposed to run away from the Braves like they did last year? Now that their lead isn’t 8 or 10 games or whatever it was at the break last year it’s like the media and the emts fans keep saying just wait til pedro comes back…well take a look at the yankees fans who said wait til Clemens comes back he’ll turn our ship around…there is too much baseball left to play for any mets fan to come on here and tell me that they are gunna run away from the braves because their organization if that far superior…When the season is over and the Mets win the division from us I will recant and bow down to ur all mighty predictions from the allstar break, however if they don’t I believe you need to stick to your day job and leave the predicting to peter gammons buster olney and people like DOB who cover teams for a living, and in case everyone making predictions hasn’t noticed even people who cover teams for a living and ake predictions are often wrong. I say let the season play out more so because I’m tired of hearing rediculous comments about how the mets are the far superior team and are blah blah blah and blah blah blah, let them play! o whos winning the heads up series….o haha wait thats right Braves?

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

This place is packed now, sun is shining, and Counting Crows are cranking “Mr. Jones” on a trailer-stage set up at second base. And it’s surprisingly LOUDDDDD. Concert levels, legit. Quite a solid performance.

Let’s see what’s next. They’re supposed to play two songs….

“Accidentally in Love” is the second one. They just shot off massive fireworks during the song, and now firepots, like something out of a KISS concert….

By brian

July 9, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

if there was a way to aquire a pitcher who will help the Braves without trading away James, Harrison, Reyes, SALTY, and Escobar I am all for it. good luck JS.

With the shortage of pitching available I would expect every to ask for Salty and Escobar just like the Nats did. Whether it is Arroyo or Williams or whoever, if we add to our staff externally it will cost us dearly

Great analogy above regarding Doyle for Smoltz. Also, here is hoping the Braves do not panic and trade for a “Len Barker” that costs us a promising young player like Brett Butler or Brook Jacoby

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

Now more fire as the prerequisite military-plane flyover (even in S.F.) And at the very same time all this is going on, big Willie McCovey is struggling to climb out of a golf cart behind home plate. He’s on crutches.

By brian

July 9, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

if anyone has read the “We Need a Pit-Cher” blog, it is struggling. DOB please do not read that blog or your blood pressure will shoot up to dangerous levels. Everyone wants to trade Andruw, Chipper, and Smoltz now. Such as Smoltz, Wickman, and Paronto for Andrew Miller and another one of their top young players.

The humanity.

By Tom

July 9, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

OK, DO’B says the Reds, Rats and Mariners are open for business (maybe) so here are the arms, take your pick…make your move:

REDS————————————-

Player W L ERA G BB SO

A Harang 9 2 3.67 19 35 112 K Lohse 5 10 4.47 18 29 70 B Arroyo 3 9 4.84 18 38 75 M Belisle 5 6 5.28 17 22 67

RATS——————————————-

T Gorzelanny 9 4 3.10 18 35 75 I Snell 7 5 2.93 17 33 93 P Maholm 5 11 4.76 18 33 68 Z Duke 3 7 5.79 17 22 33

MARINERS———————————

J Washburn 8 6 3.72 17 33 54 M Batista 8 7 4.54 18 44 68 F Hernandez 5 4 3.72 14 24 80 C Baek 3 3 5.74 11 13 46 J Weaver 2 6 6.34 12 15 32

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Well, I guess a new denizen rule is not to get anywhere near 1000 posts because the darn blog will disappear.

To steal a line from O Brother Where Art Thou?, I guess the blog entitled Chipper Overtakes The Murph shall now be known as a geographical oddity, two weeks from everywhere.

By sheesh

July 9, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

I was coasting through the blog, enjoying the comments and perspectives. Then I noticed the negative, redneck, diarrhetic spewing of N8 corrupting our cyberspace again. What a clown. It’s like walking through a nice neighborhood and then seeing that one house that looks like it has been condemned. Oh well.

By Wayne in Utah

July 9, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

Touche, my Southern Gentleman friend!

By Ron

July 9, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Efrim No doubt we need another starter, but I do not like the Idea of trading our Starting LF next year in Brandon Jones for a Starter unless he is real good!!! I would rather trade guys like Lillibridge, Jo-Jo Reyes, Devine, Prado, and some other prospects, before trading Brandon Jones!!!

By Tom

July 9, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

honestly, it didn’t look so jumbled in the original…

By The Grinch

July 9, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

Barry thinks people judge him because of what a third party said. I think I judge him because he magically gained a third again of his body mass in lean muscle at age 38 and consequently doubled his average home run total, which just happened to coincide with Sosa, McGwire and Giambi doing exactly the same thing. Does he really think people are that stupid? Apparently he does. I also love how he ducks out of the home run derby by saying “I just can’t do this anymore.” Batting practice? Um, you do it before every game, Barry. What a douchebag.

By Daybed Wagmoe

July 9, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

“you all” is spelled y’all, not ya’ll

By Bob, Journalist

July 9, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

One post before time for “The Closer” …

Salty, your 5:45 …

That’s really all this is anymore; an effort to stay close and make a run to the playoffs

That at least directionally true if you’re a stalker, and the majority probably are … but pace makes the race and both front runners and closers win too.

I think it’s more complex than what that statement suggests … I would imagine that both the strategy of the General Manager and that of the Field Manager during the season depend somewhat on what they perceive during the offseason as being the optimum objectives for the season and the best approach to achieving them … influenced continuously by emerging events.

That’s not intended as argumentative or idle rhetoric … I really do believe it to be true … but it doesn’t mean I’m right either.

Methinks how the season is approached depends heavily on the composition and nature of the team … zum beispiel, if it is a team of veterans with expectations of dominating the Division and perhaps the League, one would expect the approach to the season to differ significantly from that of one in a highly competitive division with relatively young, talented and competitive players … I’m sure the number of general approaches actually employed is significantly less than the number of teams, but I have to believe that the algorithm is not overly simple.

That’s not to say that what you presented doesn’t represent conventional wisdom or the pragmatic trend … or that even those who have well designed strategies, effectively revise and apply them when in the heat of battle.

It’s sort of like hitters … most know the objective is to best the pitcher relative to the situation and have great plans for so doing … but when they step in the box, those plans are frequently reduced to just trying to hit the ball hard, perhaps in some very broad general direction … and that is reinforced, accepted behavior by many managers and most fans.

None of that negates the points you were trying to make, methinks … and it is just my opine.

Regardless of approach, methinks it probable that we have to have the length of the season we do so as to satisfy advertisers that the expense is justifiable relative to the coverage.

By Turnin2

July 9, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

DOB Don’t you think the music played at Petco is MUCH better than anything at the TED? More 80ish rock -no ‘Thank God I’m a Country Boy’ in the 7th inning stretch! And no annoying game host to play games between each and every inning!!

I totally love the Petco experience - one of my favorite road trips. Especially loved watching the Chicken ‘attacking’ Hubby…

By The Grinch

July 9, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

Anyone else glad they’ve brought John Cougar back to sell Chevys again for this event? I was beginning to forget who’s country this was.

By ernesto

July 9, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

Well Harang would be great, but he’s making about 4.5 million, still that’s not bad for a guy whith those numbers who can rack up the strike outs. Gorzelanny - big lefty rookie making chump chagne - ding! ding! ding! Snell’s good and cheap too, but it would be great to add a lefty.

i’d take any of those 3, but as we all know, none of those guys are going anywhere.

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Grinch, stop it. Barroid is a genetic freak. He went through puberty a second time at the age of 38. It happens. It gives the two of us something to look forward to.

By brian

July 9, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this

The Pirates young starters would be ideal - I just doubt they will be available - probably take a package of Reyes, Escobar, and Devine to pry one of their top young starters, and I don’t know if they will even go for that.

JS seemed to be hot for a couple of their starters like gorzelanny, snell, or maholm

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

If someone walks by the pressbox with a gun, please shoot me.

This home-run derby is reeeeally boring. But not as bad as some tripe on ESPN, for sure.

Poker. Spelling bees? Hot dog eating contests?

But that new thing they’ve got going sinks to a new level, that “Who’s Now” garbage that, to me, is completely unwatchable. Seriously, I can’t watch smug Keyshawn Johnson and Stu Scott and the other guys debate the relative buzzworthy merits of “T.O.” and David Beckham. Just garbage.

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Turnin2, yes, very good ballpark vibe and tunes at Petco. Also, Dodger Stadium does it right.

Gotta tell you, there’s nothing better than a three-city trip of L.A., San Diego and San Francisco with sun and low humidity everywhere. And the scenery … oh, my.

BRAVEHEART, that blog is still there. You might have to click a couple times, but it’ll come up. I really don’t think the system could handle it after 1,000 or so without the glitches that you might be experiencing, but if you try it again it’ll probably come up. First time I clicked it on I got a “page does not exist” message, but then I did it again and got it.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

Watching people playing cards in person is bad enough. On TV? Insufferable.

By Yars

July 9, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Martin Prado’s future is being a MLB utility player, not that there is anything wrong with that. I think he will be a good utility player. He can play 3B, SS, 2B, & probably even the OF in a pinch. He also swings a decent bat. I just don’t see him being an everyday player. Yunel Escobar is ready to be playing everyday, but not at Kelly Johnson’s expense. KJ should be playing everyday. There’s no reason for a platoon. KJ’s overall numbers at the all star break indicate that a platoon isn’t necessary. Unlike Thorman, he can hit LH pitching. If Bobby is still mad at KJ for that failed bunt attempt last month? His defense? He’s played solid defense so far, & will only get better as the season moves on. If the Braves can get a quality starting pitcher for Yunel, I’m all for it. The reality is, we have an influx of infielders, & need for a starting pitcher.

By Randy

July 9, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

DOB, that’s just because you are not very “now”. Wait, you are totally now. It’s been a banner few months for Braves/MIB. Maybe I have to rethink my blind devotion to poet laureate of Bristol by way of Chapel Hill. No, overreacting, the Stuart Scott shrine must remain. Just tone down the criticism of ESPN, DOB. It can only hurt you when it comes time for seeding in next year’s Who’s Now. Don’t wanna get stuck with a tough second round matchup like Sam Hornish Sr.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

Folks, something you have to consider when making up trade scenarios, either here, or in your mind is this…

These young stud pitchers are CHEAP for the Pirates, Reds, etc. to KEEP, and pitching IS a solid foundation to build on. So why SHOULD they ship them off for ANYthing we have?

If I’m the Reds, I keep Harang and Arroyo because they’re cheap. That team’s not far off from being a contender, believe it or not. Their fatal flaw is their bullpen - which isn’t an expensive fix.

If I’m the Pirates, no way do I ship off an Ian Snell, Duke or Gorzelanny. They’re not Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux, but they’re a formidable top-three of the rotation for them to build around, and aren’t expensive.

Just remember, when making trade scenarios, the trades have to make sens for the other team(s) as well.

For my money, that leaves a guy like Matt Morris as the more likely scenario, as far as rotation fixes go. He’s an older starter on a team that has young starting pitching coming up already, plus they just plunked down major dough for Barry Zito. That makes Morris expendable for some future offensive infusion. They’re not likely to have Barry in the very near future and could use something to replace that in the lineup.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

“We got a ‘lil surprise for you tonight…We gonna turn the microphone over to Ace Frehley…Shock me!”

By Tomahawkin' Again

July 9, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

5 hr’s leading the derby so far? I miss the steroid era already!

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

Someone mentioned Victor Zambrano earlier. Uh, no. Sure he’s only pitched 10 innings this year, but he’s given up 5 HRs, walked 11, and struck out 5 in that time. Yikes.

By humbug

July 9, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

The main theme of the experts on this blog who would probably never lose a game they managed escapes me. Their answer to the Braves problems seems to be trade all the young players, no matter how good they are, for castoff experienced pitchers from other teams. Haven’t we experienced that already? Haven’t we learned why the other teams were willing to unload them? Thats plainly stupid or inexperienced thinking experts.

By Halloweenhead (eware)

July 9, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

DOB, what was your take on the new Ryan Adams and White Stripes albums?

Also, do you like Rilo Kiley? I’ve gotten into them since I heard Jenny Lewis’s solo album. She’s got an enchanting voice. Plus, she’s super cute.

By bravefansince54

July 9, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Alan, your post at 1:36 mentions Millwood and suggests he is affordable this year. His salary is hair below 10M and his ERA is 6.16. I am not suggesting he is not a 3.75-4.25 pitcher, because I think he is, and his best years were clearly in Atlanta. But his salary is “beyond the pale” (this Irishman loathes to use the expression born of Cromwell’s threat), and we not only cannot afford to pay it, but should not as a matter of sound baseball management. (We will be ok if we resist these obsence Buehrle salaries, but that’s another post.)

By Yars

July 9, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

ESPN News is the only ESPN I can tolerate. I gave up on SportsCenter. The anchors try too hard to be funny & witty. Chris Berman is nothing but a joke now. I got sick of Dick Vitale’s on air personality 10 years ago. That guy still gives me a headache. Both Kenny Mayne & Dan Patrick are naturally funny. Why do they show NFL Live 5 days a week, all year! What the hell is that all about? You don’t see Baseball Tonight on in December do you? I remember a few years ago, ESPN had this show called Playmakers. Anyone remember that show? I enjoyed it. Fox Sports Network is only good for 1 thing, Braves baseball, & the handful of Georgia Tech basketball games they show. The Final Score, Fox Sports version of SportsCenter, stinks. Does anyone even watch that? What happened to Terry Chick? I liked it when he hosted the Braves pre-game show.

By KC

July 9, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: “These young stud pitchers are CHEAP for the Pirates, Reds, etc. to KEEP, and pitching IS a solid foundation to build on. So why SHOULD they ship them off for ANYthing we have?”

They shouldn’t. But I hope they will! =)

By Serbok

July 9, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Hello All, I still maintain the Braves Should NOT trade the 2 big rookies~ We need to stand PAT and get into the playoffs. Davies is only gonna get better. Braves Will make post season with current roster!

Quick fun Poll? Whats the most memorable moment of the first half of this year for you? Mine is Hudson “plunking” Soriano :o)

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

An aside nota about AT&T Park that I think I read today on ballparkdigest.com was that they managed to avoid the windy conditions that plagued Candlestick by turning the balpark away from the downtown skyline, thus making the stadium a HUGE wind shield, with the gusts at the backs of the seats on the first base line.

It’s another ballpark I’d LOVE to visit, but hell, that whole CITY is one I wish to visit again sometime soon on a Braves’ roadtrip.

By mike

July 9, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

DAD! I can’t believe you returned to this site. Everybody remember this clown a few weeks ago got on here and said that the Mets would lead the Braves by 10 games at the break. Care to explain that one? The only thing a Mets “fan” should say on here is how lucky the Mets are that they are still in first.

By heath

July 9, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

Glass Half Full: i did not say that we should go for victor zambrano, i said that the braves were more likely to sign that guy than trade for a big time pitcher….

By N8

July 9, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

sheesh

*”It’s like walking through a nice neighborhood and then seeing that one house that looks like it has been condemned. Oh well.”

You’re a frickin prick, you know that?

How’s that for negativity azzhole?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 9, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

I hope you’re wrong, Heath. I’m still thinking JS makes a “smart” move at the deadline and gets a serviceable #3 or 4.

By Braveheart

July 9, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DOB. Wanted to see many we ended up with.

Serbok, my favorite moment of the first half was when Shaun came back after being gone for 10 days or so and told us he had been on his honeymoon and The Grinch immediately replied it was nice to hear he had finally made an honest man out of Bill James. Now that was absolutely freaking classic.

By Salty

July 9, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Bob, Journalist I don’t disagree with your position. My reference was to the ‘here and now’…from this point forward, nothing more.

By Bill

July 9, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

I like Alex Rios of the Jays. He was on the trading block. Wonder what it would take to get him. He can play all outfield positions.

By chrisklob

July 9, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, One would think that attending the HR Derby would be a lot of fun, but I guess not. I mean, in a way it represents the most garish, most obnoxious side of American sports. All flash, no substance. If a soccer fan from say Europe or South America (or anywhere, for that matter) were to tune into the HR Derby, they would undoubtedly laugh out loud at us and say “Typical Americans”.

How many times do we have to listen to “backbackbackbackbackbackback GONE. He hit THAT one to San Jose! Do you know the way to San Jose?”

ESPN, as many of the bloggers here have noted today and in the recent past, has really compromised themselves with their choice of programming and announcers. Poker? Competitive easting? Friggin’ spelling bees? Give me a break! Kenny Mayne is funny. I’ll give them that. Peter Gammons I personally find very credible and enjoyable to listen to. Kurkjian is ok. I like Kruk just because he seems to say whatever is on his mind. To heII with political correctness. Just about everyone past them is unbearable.

DOB, enjoy The City. As you know, SF is one of the most beautiful and culturally diverse in America. And hang in while MLB and ESPN deliver their version of WWE Smackdown.

By ElbravoX

July 9, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

DOB- Finally!

For once your job sucks.

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

OK, just got back from walking among the masses and getting quotes for a Barry Bonds story I’m gonna write tomorrow. And I gotta say, there is redeeming value to the Home Run Derby — but only if you’re in the crowd. It’s a pretty cool atmosphere out there. Went out to the right-field terrace overlooking McCove Cove and the flotilla out there to catch splashdown balls. Good stuff. Plus, the sun’s down now behind the stadium and it’s about 68 degrees in the shade, very refreshing. Folks are having a great time out there…..

By Drinky McStupid

July 9, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Dave O’, do you ever reflect at what you do? Following around a bunch of 20 somethings (and few 30 somethings.) Most of which are taking illegal drugs of one sort or another. Listening to their immature banter day after day. Dealing with personalities with depths measured in angstroms.

Better you than me.

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

OK, vote for your Worst ESPN Idea Ever:

“Who’s ‘Now’”

Stuart Scott spoken-word/hip-hop embarrassment

Steve Phillips Is Your GM segment (fake press conference thing; unbelievably bad)

Who’s Next (remember that?)

Televised Spelling Bee

Televised Poker … night after night … after night after night…

Cold Pizza (in its various forms)

All their movies

…. Or, fill in the blank with your own

By Austin

July 9, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

DOB To stick with the HR Derby theme, which Brave hits the ball farthest regularly in BP…And which Braves would be best suited for the derby?

By chrisklob

July 9, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

The spelling bee is the worst in my opinion. It’s not even remotely related to sports. The next time I want to see a nervous, sweating 12 year old I’ll tell my daughter she’s losing her cell phone priveliges for a month.

By Blake

July 9, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

just saw that the Angels waived Shea Hillenbrad. Is he worth a shot or just Craig Wilson part 2? I mean the guy has career average way above .300. Just a thought.

By chrisklob

July 9, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Here’s an idea for some great future ESPN programming. Televised chess tournaments. Those would be absolutely riveting.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah, CHris Berman’s a caricature of his former self, but sheesh, stop being so overly-analytical and just enjoy him for what he is.

Sometimes I think folks would prefer some droll, stat-laden, rumor-mongering, “what-if” blow-hard call games.

I see people gripe because of a percieved bias towards NY or Boston teams, but hey, check the standings the last few years. Those three teams have been there. It’s easy for the ESPNs of the world to take Atlanta for granted, but in truth, they do give Atlanta and Bobby Cox/John Schuerholz their due quite a bit, I’d say.

Fact is, it’s human nature for anybody to take this team for granted after 14 consecutive division titles and only one World Series ring to show for it. If we’d run off with 6-7 WS over that time, ESPN would be as in love with us as they are with the New England Patriots.

Hell, you think it’s bad for us? Imagine how San Antion Spurs fans must feel? It’s Kobe this, Shaq that, Pistons, Cavs, Lakers, Heat, Mavs…and oh by the way, the Spurs are pretty good, too.

I think the Braves get about as much as attention as they’re due these days, and don’t care that Joe Morgan doesn’t gloat about our team. He’s a lifetime SF Giant. You might recall we were in the same division with them for a number of years. I wouldn’t like ‘em, either, if I were a lieftime Giant.

Peter Gammons is a Boston beat writer and tends to focus on the Red Sawx… doesn’t bother me one bit. He still gets out as much info about the other MLB teams as anybody not a Braves beat writer would.

Tim McCarver, a true-blue (mostly red actually) Cardinal, was never one to bloviate about the Braves, either. I get that. Do I care? No. Does it keep me from watching and listening? Well, no. Does he annoy me? Not at all.

I actually like ol’ Jack Buck, myself, and miss hearing Bob Costas call games. I even liked hearing the old NBC Game of the Week broadcasts with Dodger anouncer Vin Scully.

By rotgut

July 9, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

Who’s Now is the biggest crock of s** on tv

deal with the mariners. they gave up soriano for horam. exploit the bastards

By The Grinch

July 9, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

I like poker.

By Ron Roberts

July 9, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

The Who’s Now thing is TRULY horrible. Just space-filler for otherwise empty SportsCenter broadcasts.

But I also remember ESPN’s infancy, what with tractor pulls, boring @ss track and field events, etc. I actually hated the “Beat the Schwam” game show, too.

Cold Pizza, to me, wasn’t a bad idea, just a horrible NAME for the show. But I also questioned why THAT show would air on ESPN2 as the more up-to-the-minute sports news show, while the last night’s re-run of SportsCenter would loop hour after hour after hour on the flagship. Made no sense to me.

That’s what was wrong w/Cold Pizza, and it’s followup show (forgot what it’s called).

But their worst concept, to me, was the ESPN Mobile phone. Really. Who can’t get most of what they’re offering on their current phone service if they spent enough to get it?

By chrisklob

July 9, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

Blake, Hillenbrand might be worth a shot. He’s a career .287 hitter with average power and can play first and third. What’s discouraging about him is the fact that he’s played for five organizations over his twelve year career and three over the past two seasons. From what I’ve heard/read, he’s not a good clubhouse guy. Do you remember the dustup he had with the Toronto manager, John Gibbons, last year? As I recall, he had some issues in the SF clubhouse too. Just doesn’t seem like a Bobby Cox-type of player.

By Hotspur

July 9, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

Steve Phillips in a landslide.

By MEB

July 9, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

DOB… the Steve Phillips GM segment was awful, really awful, but Stuart Scott hosting “Who’s Now” takes the cake for the absolute worst.

Hey, if the Spelling Bee is shown just once a year it can be fairly entertaining. That doesn’t make me weird does it?

Cold Pizza (called First Take now) had way to much Skip Bayless and Woody Paige for me. Now I do like Dana Jacobson and think she is a pretty good hostess.

The Bronx is Burning just started so we will see how bad this ESPN production is.

By Randy

July 9, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmmm, this is tough.

Bronze - Dream Job Silver - Tilt (a great combination of poker AND an ESPN series!!) Gold - Stump the Schwab (simply because this is such an obviously good idea that is executed about as poorly as humanly possible. I love sports trivia and this is painful to watch. I scream at the TV).

Honorable Mention - Bonds on Bonds, Knight School, Playmakers, Skip Bayless in any form

By fastasballs

July 9, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves will be better served if JS doesn’t make any major moves until the winter or right before the 2008 season. Any decent pitcher is going to bring more than they are worth as long as there are scores of teams needing starters. Why give up Salty or Escobar for a much lessor talent? If either are traded after this season the Braves will get much better value. Look what JS got for the last can’t miss prospect by the name of Marte during an off season trade. Marte never was a proven player like Salty or Escobar, so what are these guys worth?

You people that think the Braves are going to acquire the #1 young stud pitcher from any team are dilusional. Look at the stupid money being thrown at mediocre starters, much less what a good one makes. If the Braves want good young studs they are going to have to develope them instead of purchasing them.

If the Braves play as they should I would expect a lot different view of this team in a month. Their schedule favors them, Andruw is coming around & the back of the rotation has been decent.

Lots of positives at the moment, but Braves fans are always on pins & needles when so much is expected & riding on the often injured Chipper & a 40 year old starter whose arm/shoulder/elbow could go at anytime. Regardless if a blockbuster trade is made or not, the season’s hopes still ride on the backs of those two players.

By chrisklob

July 9, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, you’re right about the ESPN phone thing. That really was a dog (with fleas).

By Miller

July 9, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

I only watch ESPN to catch highlights of Braves games that are not on TV (which unfortunately are not many and will be a whole lot less next year since I don’t live in Atlanta). I turn it off after that, unfortunately the Braves are usually not at the top of the telecast so I have to sit through a whole bunch of crap.

Eventhough I am a teacher my vote for the worst ESPN idea ever would be the spelling be. Now make it full contact and it might be interesting.

By Chop Chop

July 9, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

I’m with Grinch on the poker. They shouldn’t show it so damn much, but I like watching WSOP.

DOB, the first four eminently hateable ESPN abominations you listed are tied in my mind. I can’t possibly pick one over the other, although the humor of Steve Phillips playing the role of a GM was top-notch. Could you imagine that guy being a real GM???? I mean, no f’n way, right? Oh, that wacky ESPN!

By Blake

July 9, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

chrisklob

You are probably right. When I said he hit above .300 I think I was only looking at the past 5 or 6 seasons. Now that you mention it, I do remember him getting traded from Toronto because of that ordeal. You may be right, I dont think BC likes to many distractions of that type.

I was just thinking we may be seriously looking at acquiring a 1B because of the interest in D Young.

By ACB

July 9, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

My team won!!! It was totally righteous. Mucho drama, with a blown save in the top of the 9th (real Braves fans can relate) and bottom of the 9th heroics.

All I can say is that all that beer I drank during the game and all the stuff I had before the game really paid off. I was fortified to hurl many soul-scraping insults at ‘Blue’ and also cheer the guys in white on. And I now feel completely cleansed.

Yes, the Church of Baseball is truly edifying. I highly reccomend minor league baseball to everyone. Especially if you are over 21 or have a solid fake ID.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

Yars…Playmakers was the shyt…D.O.B. I hated that whos’s Now Garbage the first day they spat it up, I called it at the beginning of the decade, ESPN is quickly becoming MTV Sports…If they wanna be like that, they could at least bring back rock and jock softball…

Derby was aight, Music they played was aight, but man I miss the steroid days…And BTW Frank Thomas and Junior made The Home Run Derby, they should be allowed to participate if they please…

By BravesDave

July 9, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

How about the 1977 NY Yankees sitcom they are showing tonight for the worst ESPN idea ever? It is a series. You have got to be kidding me. Maybe they should roll one out for every team for every season. I would love to watch “The ATL is Burning” about the 1988 Atlanta Braves march to last place. Who can they sign up to play the part of Joe Boever???

By Greg in TN

July 9, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

Evening folks…

Couple of thoughts rattling around the ‘ol goard before turning in for the night.

DOB, just curious, was watching most of the derby tonight and saw the overflow press section in the upper deck next to the right field foul pole. Had to be tough doing any work with the sun in your grill. Is it luck of the draw on something like that as far as who sits in the press box and who sits in the overflow, or is it first come/first serve?

I was a fan of Joe Morgan for one day in my life. Sunday, October 3, 1982 when he homered to beat the Dodgers and put us in the NLCS. That’s it, really. He pays very little attention to the game action and went through a stage for a few years telling the viewers how he would have done it instead of analyzing the action on the field. McCarver was the same way after he moved to CBS.

TennPaul, totally agree with you on Vin Scully. Couldn’t stand the Dodgers for years and years and years, however always had the utmost respect for Scully for his NBC work. His voice is like pure honey. Also did a wonderful job of calling the ‘88 Series and stayed impartial, even on Gibson’s homer to end game one.

One of the best color guys I’ve heard on a national basis was Buck Martinez on ESPN before he went to the dugout. He never tried to over analyze. He’s doing Oriole TV broadcasts right now, but IMO he ought to get a national gig soon if he wants to do it again.

I agree with Braveheart and fastasballs and the others that believe we are not going to get a first tier starter. It’s not in the cards, folks. And I don’t think its in our best interests to get rid of either Escobar or Salty and certainly not both. Something may change in the offseason or a team may come calling with an offer JS can’t refuse, however I believe these guys are starting to put it together and we have a very forgiving schedule to start the second half of the year.

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

If I can I only watch the FSN finalscore, Its blunt and to the point no dumb Boo-yahS…no corny jokes…No MTV pop tart music to hear on the Big Highlight…Maybe more people will catch on…

Poker, gawd i’d rather watch soap operas in espanol, talk about bangin broads…

By chrisklob

July 9, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

ACB, I think I read earlier that you were going to a Sallie League game tonight. Who’s your team? I see the Riverdogs quite often.

Frankly, I’d rather go to a minor league game than a major league game. More entertaining and, at least in the stadiums I’ve been to, you are much closer to the action. And, if you have kids, there are a lot more extra-curricular activities to entertain them.

By Chop Chop

July 9, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Ahhh…the ‘88 Braves would be a good subject for an ESPN drama. By the way, that reminds me of the greatest nickname in sports that I never got to hear Chris Berman use:

“Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the” Albert Hall.

Albert had 5 career homers and one of those suckers came when he became the last Brave to hit for the cycle in ‘87. Simply amazing.

By N8

July 9, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

I like the poker as well. But I like poker.

I however, DON’T play golf, so to me golf on TV is BOOOORING. But I’m open minded enough, to understand that somebody likes it, and ESPN and the other networks aren’t out to make “N8” happy.

Nobody has bothered calling me, to ask me what I would like on TV.

On a side note, I’m not so sure that only 4-5 hours of the Girls Gone Wild info-mercials is enough. I think they should have their own channel. :-)

Ron Roberts

Pretty much agree with your 10:58.

I’ve already made my case about ESPN and Morgan/Miller.

But how many Braves fans were “hating” on Joe Morgan on October 3rd, 1982? For those too young to know, or too old to remember, it was his HR on the last day of the season that allowed the Braves to “back in” to the playoffs. Braves lost to the Padres 5-1 and later that day (with the Braves players and TBS cameras watching in the clubhouse), Joe Morgan hit’s the game winning 3-Run HR against the Dodgers in the 7th inning.

So from where I’m coming from, Joe Morgan can make as big of an azz of himself all he wants.

Without him, the 1982 team wouldn’t have been given the opportunity to get thoroughly embarrassed by the Cardinals in the playoffs. :-)

DOB

Haven’t noticed you chiming in on the Morgan/Miller debate. Have you ever gabbed with either of them (nice guys or jerks?), and what’s your take on their broadcasting abilities?

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

Dana on Firsttake is bad…I wonder if those cats will be talking about dis blog in da morning, cuz I’ll definitely give a shoutout to Dana, I like Skip Bayless, becuz he cannot stand Lebron…

Oh yea, ballparksofbaseball.com, all the 411 you need on ballparks…

By David O'Brien

July 9, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN, one person from each big paper gets to sit in the real pressbox. Hence, I sit in the real pressbox.

You’re right about it being bad out there. Some folks looked like they had fallen asleep on a tanning bed when they came in from a few hours out there

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN I love Buck Martinez, had no idea who he was til I bought “Triple Play 98” then I saw him on ESPN a couple years after…He’s not biased and knows his stuff, as if he were a potential scout…

By Tomahawkin

July 9, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

N8ur quote…

“On a side note, I’m not so sure that only 4-5 hours of the Girls Gone Wild info-mercials is enough. I think they should have their own channel. :-)”

I couldn’t agree more with wasteful TV, If I wanted to see that, I’d go to the nearest Sorostitute Function on my campus…

That’s good TV Space they’re wasting…

By Lew

July 10, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

I’ll chime in on the whole announcer thing many have been discussing in recent days. I watch the Braves games on the MLB Extra Innings package. You don’t always get the Braves’ feed-sometimes it’s the other teams’. Such was the case during the Dodgers’ series. It was really the first time I’d ever heard Vin Scully do a Dodgers’ telecast as opposed to one of a National variety. The man did the entire game by himself with no partner. He was telling things about every Braves’ player that our guys don’t even get into. He knew them that well. He never missed a single pitch and gave personal analysis and information on every single Braves’ player. There was none of this “Francoeur swings at every pitch he get’s thrown” crap. He acknowledged that he was walking more and had discovered shortening his stroke and going to right late i the count. He even was using information from Chop Talk articles. His research and grasp of every single aspect of the game, every pitch and every at bat was phenomenal. He never stopped talking throughout the entire telecast and every thing he said was right on. That was one of the most pleasurable experiences I’ve had listening to a broadcast in years.

By Bob, Journalist

July 10, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Salty, I rather thought that you might at least directionally concur. I was belaboring the often overlooked obvious a bit and taken some license, but with regard to what you were saying, but my 3rd ear heard your message loud and clear, methinks.

Where I think I differ with Coach and perhaps some others is that, as currently structured, I don’t believe that a team’s winning percentage is necessarily indicative of its intrinsic quality level, on either an absolute or a relative basis.

The fact that teams in a league or division within a league are evenly matched should not be allowed to suggest that they are mediocre … because they’re equal … indeed, they may be but they could be the very worst or very best in the world.

By Randy

July 10, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

Vin Scully is indeed highly enjoyable. He is, in his own words (describing Tony Fernandez), a bowl of silk.

By fastasballs

July 10, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

My favorite ESPN sportscaster was Charlie Steiner, incredible baseball knowledge & a great sense of humor. I like Berman when he sticks to football. Mees was good, more of a hockey guy if I recall.

Patrick & Oberman were good long ago, but their ego’s have long surpassed their talent. Patrick’s radio show can double for the Hollywood report anymore.

I like poker on ESPN, although not every night. Televised poker is similar to golf or billiards, if you don’t play you don’t like to watch it.

By Austin

July 10, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

Just saw this from FoxSports 10 worst loses of the season about Hudsons/Wickmans debacle in the 9th @ FLA.

1. Braves at Marlins, 4/25 Bill James once calculated that the easiest of all save opportunities — the three-run lead to start the ninth — was converted 98 percent of the time. But with starter Tim Hudson cruising with a 3-0 lead, Braves skipper Bobby Cox decided to send him out for the ninth to finish what he’d started. Miguel Cabrera led off with a single to center. Cox stayed with Hudson. Cody Ross singled to center. Still no sign of closer Bob Wickman. Aaron Boone singled to left, loading the bases with nobody out. Finally Cox summoned Wickman who was promptly greeted by a two-run double by Miguel Olivo (who was hitting .205 at the time). After an intentional walk and a strikeout, Alfredo Amezega (hitting .208) blooped the game-tying base hit to left. Olivo then scooted home with the winning run on a passed ball by Brian McCann. Will this one come back to haunt the Braves in September?

By Bob, Journalist

July 10, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

The talk about wins, loses and mediocrity reminded me of the time lost a Sail Fish, largest I have ever hooked … on his eighth major jump he simply threw the hook … I was devastated, couldn’t believe it! I pondered and pondered … playing it over and over again in my mind’s eye … and the same question … what did I do wrong?

I knew it had to be something but I couldn’t for the life of me … come up with the answer.

Both the late Captain Bill Vickers, perhaps Key West’s finest, of whom I’ve spoken on the Blog … and with whom my wife and I always fished when we were in the Keys, and his first mate Jack both swore that I did absolutely nothing wrong … they may have been stretching a bit but we were then old friends and I had lost them before … so I believe they were calling it as they saw it. Captain Bill didn’t like it because we have smoked it had we landed it, but he said, “You played it perfectly, … sport fishing is like baseball, sometimes the pitcher can make the perfect pitch and the hitter still hits a home run!” That was 35 years ago and I’m still reminded of it on a constant basis.

Methinks we could probably all do with a little more crediting the opposition and with a little less faulting of our guys when we lose.

By fastasballs

July 10, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

Lew I love listening to Scully. I believe he is by far the best announcer in baseball. It’s quite refreshing to hear him actually call a game instead of telling everyone how HE would have done things differently had HE been on the field. You’re right about him whipping out facts & tid bits about Braves’ players that was unknown to most.

I also would be willing to wager that he made damn sure he could properly pronounce Saltalamacchia’s name before going on the air & butchering it like most others I’ve heard. He must do serious research on these players to be able to rattle off what he does & be rarely, if ever wrong in his statements.

By The Grinch

July 10, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Austin; I needed that reminder to make me p.o.’d all over again. I cussed Bobby so loud during that inning my next door neighbor came over to check on me. I swear to god he goes “I thought you were about to get into it with some dude named Bobby; I was gonna offer some backup (he doesn’t watch the Braves or he would’ve known).

I agree to an extent you have to play or have played the game to enjoy watching it (hence I love poker but would rather make out with Rosie O’Donell than watch golf), but not always. I was, for instance, never a female gymnast but I dig my little gymdawgs. Then again, they’re a lot more fun to look at than some @$$-munch in ugly shoes stroll around an open field while a bunch of yuppies in polo shirts lose their mind watching him swing every 20 minutes. Yeah, yeah; I know there’s more to it than that. That’s just what it looks like to an uninterested viewer. I want to strangle people who dismiss football as “a bunch of people piling into each other” or racing as “a bunch of guys driving in a circle;” golf makes me understand to an extent where they’re coming from.

G’night, all.

By Bob, Journalist

July 10, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

Austin, what do you think?

If things don’t look right, first try inserting an “n” … the key is sticking!

Belaboring the obvious, beating the deceased equine, and over simplifying … I think …

If we don’t make the playoffs, or fail to win the division, or fail to gain home fiels advantage … then the Braves might look back after their run is done and figure out what wudda, shudda, cudda.

The only way it should haunt them is if they let it … and it’s Bobby’s job to see that they don’t.

We can certainly point to more that one that we let get away … and more than one we didn’t expect or deserve to win.

Most any time that you come close and fail, you can look back and see how you cudda, wudda, shudda … and that’s good if you use it to your advantage, bad it you let it bother you.

Of course, my guess is that the Mets and the Phillies can probably do the same thing.

We must critique our performances so as to minimize the reoccurrence of mistkes but devote our focus to the game at hand and the possible impact of current decisions on the future.

By Tomahawkin

July 10, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this

Oh Grinch I get loud to the point that I get violent…especially the Games Reeksma, and Kolb used to blow, I gone through 8 remotes since 05, One this year, So I’m proud…

Maybe thats why I party all da damn time, I guess to cool my nerve after a tough loss, especailly those division series eliminators we’ve seen over the last 5 years…

By Wayne in Utah

July 10, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this

Did I miss some sporting event tonight???

By gotigers72

July 10, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

As far as the worst ESPN idea, I vote for all of the above. That Who’s Now crap they have going now would be #1. Home Run Derby wasn’t so bad the first time or two, but now it’s absolutely unwatchable.

Baseball Tonight is the best, classiest show they have going. I really like it this year with the addition of Dusty Baker. They could lose Phillips and it wouldn’t break my heart, although he has been complimentary of the Braves lately.

I used to enjoy their college football show on Saturday, not the one with the obnoxious Lee Corso, but the studio show. But then they added that has been Lou Holtz. He adds absolutely nothing to that show. His heyday was 20 years ago, he knows very little about today’s game.

By Wayne in Utah

July 10, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

When I look at Pittsburg, Seattle, and Cincinnati’s rosters, I only see three pitchers that I think those teams might unload. First, Jeff Weaver of Seattle (wouldn’t they be buyers and not sellers??) who is 30, doing terrible, and earns 8.3 Million this year. Second is Kyle Lohse who is 28, doing OK and earns 4.2 Million this year. Not sure why they would want to get rid of him?? Lastly, would be Zack Duke, who is 28, and earns close to league minimum. Not sure if he is better than Davies.

I don’t see a fit with any of those teams. I don’t think their GM’s are stupid enough to give up their decent arms, unless we empty the cupboard.

By Bob, Journalist

July 10, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

Christmas Stealer!

Is this the new definition for love starved UGA Fan?? I love poker but would rather make out with Rosie O’Donell than watch golf

What are you trying to do? Best me in the competition for a portrait from Lew for deftness in obliqueness/obtuseness?

It takes intellect to appreciate the game and integrity to play … those who break any rules is penalized or disqualified … and they’re honor bound to call penalties on themselves.

Polonius invented the game, set up the rules and taught it to Laertes just before he sent him to Scotland so that he would be tempted.

By Ron

July 10, 2007 1:25 AM | Link to this

I like poker also!!! When is the 2007 poker championship coming on ESPN this year? Is it in August?

By JohnBama

July 10, 2007 1:30 AM | Link to this

DOB….The “Who’s Next” deal is terrible but anything with Steve Phillips is terrible. He may have some solid knowledge about baseball….take out of course Mo Vaugh and Robbie Alomar…but he still haves an anti Braves bias and sometimes you have to seriously wonder what he is getting at. Though Stewart Scotts other side of the pillow routine is old.

As for many comments on Millwood, Morris etc. I think at some point we have to be realistic about what the Braves are going to get. Pitt would be dumb dumb dumb to deal a Snell for Yunel. Escobar is going to be a very good major league player but that kind of pitching potential is not going to be dealt at that price from a team like Pitt. Morris or Millwood…neither are great but a lot more likely than a Vazquez (who by the way would be my number one target if I was the Braves) or a Harden, Arroyo etc.

I have a good bit of faith in the long run for James, Huddy and Smoltz. A number one or two is not going to come….a solid number four is possible.

By Bob, Journalist

July 10, 2007 1:33 AM | Link to this

fastasballs,

Vin Scully, Bill Stern, Red Barber, Jack Brickhouse, Jack Buck … I liked them all … Didn’t mind Mell Allen because of his distinctive voice … but a little went a long way for me.

You can’t totally blame today’s group … there’s a big difference between proper radio play by play and the combo of play by play and color demanded of TV where less needs to be said.

Methinks the best are those who had to create the road games for radio from teletype at some point in their careers.

By Ron

July 10, 2007 1:40 AM | Link to this

DOB When Barry Bonds comes to Atlanta on August 14, just say he for some reason he has not broken the record yet, what if he broke it in Atlanta, you know that would be a Damn Shame!!! You know Fans would be throwing just about everything onto the field, would not be good for anyone!!!

By Bob, Journalist

July 10, 2007 2:37 AM | Link to this

You don’t realize how young the kids are when you only see them on stage doing their thing … Brian McCann having Barry and Junior as boyhood idols … I can’t relate, they all seem young to me … I guess I was that way too … my active sports heroes were 12-20 years older than me … but times were different and my heroes also included Babe and Lou and guys like that I only knew from stories and old movie news reels.

I wonder too about the perception of young players of Barry’s arrogance over the last several years and the performance enhancing controversy surrounding his later moments on the stage.

I imagine many, if not most, would sincerely adopt the politically correct posture that he’s “innocent until proven guilty” rather than the posture that he’s guilty upon having done the deed … but not adjudged to be legally responsible until the legal system has rendered a guilty verdict.

It’s always interesting to see how folks react to their heroes being convicted of having done dastardly deeds or conduct unbecoming a hero; especially the reactions of the highly impressionable.

Well I, for one won’t cheer for 756 … he’s no hero to me, regardless of whether he violated the rules … but, I do believe he did.

Tis 1:30 here, time to watch on old John Wayne, Alan Lane, and Bob Steel triple feature and eat some popcorn!

Grinch, when you start your Christmas Stealing, find me the Singing Sandy Serial! Duke didn’t break the rules, he made them!

By Random (Miller/Morgan)

July 10, 2007 3:16 AM | Link to this

What bugs me the most about Jon Miller — almost every statement he makes ends with a rising inflection, implying some kind of sense of wonder, as if it were the first time he’d ever seen a baseball game.

“And Smoltz picks up the ball? And rubs it in his hands? Smoltz throws it to McCann? And Griffey swings and misses?” etc

By Braveheart

July 10, 2007 3:57 AM | Link to this

The worst thing ESPN did was getting rid of Trev Alberts … always gave the SEC mad love … seemed he and Mark May had really good chemistry with the way they always fought and disagreed … actually seemed to be genuine disagreements to me although they are told to fight with each other … their chemistry was so good, their manufactured disagreements seemed seamless … the newer studio show with Holtz and Rece and May is horrible … the old show with Trev and May was much better than Game Day, which is a show I actually consider a must watch on Saturday mornings because it gets me in the mood …

PTI to me is a great example of great chemistry between Wilbon and Kornheiser making the manufactured nature of many of their disagreements seamless … If Kornheiser is going to be doing the Monday Night games, Wilbon should be up there with him … at least you would enjoy listening to the two of them together … maybe Jaws will do a good job … they somehow finally came to their senses about Theisman

Around the Horn is horrible … I can’t stand the host or anyone who appears on it … There is no chemistry between anyone who appears on the show … thus all the seams show … it’s just a bunch of guys screaming at the top of their lungs at a television monitor taking good cop, bad cop positions based upon what some producer told ‘em to say … bad chemistry + bad talent = all the seams show = horrible show

Another bad idea was “stealing” Stephen A. Smith from the Best Damn Sports Show … should have left him where he belonged

Another bad idea is to continue to have Mike Lupica on every Sunday … that man is a washed up has been and has been such for twenty years … he is completely out of touch with the sports world … if you have been unfortunate enough to ever read his columns … you realize you have been reading the same column for 30 years … he must have some boiler plated template or something where he just changes which player or manager is going to be inserted in that sentence or paragraph as opposed to the guy he talked about in the very same column last year during the same period of the season … he shamelessly plagiarizes himself all the time … that guy needs to give it up or at the least ESPN needs to give up on him

Sports Reporters II was ill conceived

Anything featuring Stuart Scott is horrible …

Getting rid of Kit Hoover was dumb … and replacing her with Dana Jacobson … as the Seinfield skit on SNL said, who are the ad wizards that came up with that … a fluffy morning show with struggling ratings gets rid of the pretty girl … that’s a time proven ratings winner … now they feature the evil one bayless, with the buffoon Woody, with the dense pretty boy, and the oddly shaped woman Jacobson … chrissakes, it was a morning show … so what if Kit didn’t know much about sports … since when did ESPN start concerning themselves with hard hitting journalism? … we knew she was a fluffy personality on a fluffy morning show … ‘twas not like ESPN was asking the fluffy morning show lady to anchor the CBS evening news or anything …

By Double Deuce

July 10, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this

Bob, Journalist Not many remember Bob Steele, but he was one of my Dad’s favorites. I got excited by Roy Rogers and he was a Steele man. Ever wonder who our boyhood heroes would have been if the press was as invasive then as it is now? Mickey Mantle was my hero, we even share the same birthdate, not year, but same date. Can you imagine how he would fare these days? He would make even NFL players look good, but that does nothing to tarnish my image of him. He’s still one of my heroes even tho I now know how flawed he was. Actually the tales of he and Whitey Ford have enhanced his image for me, but I’m from a different era. The modern athlete has to watch where he goes, what he drinks, and what he says after he drinks lest he stumble and say something that irks the guy in the bleachers who’s had 8 or 10 beers. The media rags on A-rod for being so politically correct, but as soon as he steps outside those boundaries he’s crucified in the press. Kinda limits those guys we would like to admire from stepping forward and saying what’s really on their mind.

By Bryan Nofal

July 10, 2007 4:17 AM | Link to this

While what you say is true (Ron Roberts) about the remaining schedule that the Braves and Mets have, The Braves (up to this point in the season anyway) have played better against teams + .500 than teams -.500 . After the break would be a good time for them to improve their record against teams less than the .500 mark.

By Runnin

July 10, 2007 4:23 AM | Link to this

DOB, you’re absolutely right about “Who’s Now” being the worst ESPN segment ever, though there have been so many. I still don’t know what being “Now” means, nor do I want to know. Anything would be better than that. I’d even rather see Sean Salisbury teach John Clayton how to pass a football.

Do they even make helmets small enough for John Clayton’s head?

By TBFKB

July 10, 2007 5:24 AM | Link to this

DOB ,

I’ve said before and I will say it again, you have one helluva job….if you want to call it that. I know some parts suck but dont take that thing for granted. As I’m sure most DOB/MIB blogger would probably trade in a heartbeat. You do good stuff for us fans. Thanks.

Poker is cool leave it alone….about the only thing worth watching on ESPN anymore besides mabey Mike and Mike.

Hope your B. Bonds story is not as biased as most sports writers are. It will be interesting to this blogger on how you approach it.

I make my homecomming (sort of, born in Germany as an Air Force brat) to Atlanta after my rotation up here in desolate Wyoming. It was 99 degrees here (so said the 1st State Bank of Pinedale) and felt like 85. Hope the Braves are in town late July early August.

One more thing….a newspaper website that gets the traffic the AJC does it should be able to figure out or invest in a better blog format than the one currently in use. This one really has diminishing returns the more post there are. This is further underscored by the traffic your blog gets. What would be interesting to know is how many unique hits it gets a day. Your IT peeps I’m sure could come up with a better format that could spur reveue with Ad’s. An idea would be to get yourself a sponser, such as the DOB/MIB blogger presented by _(insert sponser here) Then get decent blog or forum software. Enough with that rant. I’m sure your losing fans due to the slow down.

By TBFKB

July 10, 2007 5:50 AM | Link to this

Who’s Hot drives me nuts.

BobJ

I dont think many kids have sports heros once they reach adult hood. I did’nt, and not many of my peers in the Army did either. Nor do my current roughneck co-workers. However, many do root for teams rather than player. This is not to say they dont have favorite players, but to call them hero’s I don’t think not one would.

I’m 28 years old and I pretty much grew up watching Jr., Bonds, Big Mac, Sosa.

Jr. was prob my favorite non-Brave. When he hit like 8 homeruns in as many games was awesome…rembering staying up late watching sportscenter every night to see if he hit another.

We’ve had the discussion about steroids before and I won’t attempt that again. However, what B. Bonds has and will accomplish should be appreciated by baseball fans. (I would put IMO after this but I’m writing it so there is no need to state the obvious) If steriods impacted the game as much as SI would like you to belive you would have a significantly greater portion of players that would be at or above the level B. Bonds has preformed at. Even if you give me the K. Camanetti’s (spelling) B. Mac, Sosa, Palmero’s you still talking about mabey 1% of the total population of the game that significatly impacted it that may have used steroids. B. Bonds talent is awesome. He has a +.500 OBP. That is sick. I don’t know the guy and dont know what he has or had to put up with…and I’m sure most here dont know either. So to call him argoant based on media accounts and soundbites is a little subjective. Did not type all that I want to but so short on time these days.

One more point (not blasting your or anything)….when did it become “politicaly correct” to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I’m young but I know that expression is helluva lot older than the term politicaly correct. If anything thats whats wrong with young people today, they are quick to form an opinion and judge someone without performing the due dilligence of information gathering. Further, they rely on information derived from a 2 minute story they heard on the Imus show or The View. Ole Rosie still got me steaming….

By ssiscribe

July 10, 2007 7:51 AM | Link to this

Top of the morning denizens, and a happy All-Star Day (is that a term?) to all.

And remember, this one counts (pardon me while I yack).

Now, baseball (noted transition by the Scribe): Lots of talk on here about not trading anybody. I have to admit I’ve changed my stance, as I sense some of you have, about dealing either Salty or Escobar. The combination of the way these two kids have played, along with the Braves’ recent resurgence, has shown me just how unnecessary it is to deal either one of the wunderkids.

Now, winning the East (more transition): How, you may ask, will the Braves win the East? Here is one formula I discussed with a buddy of mine yesterday afternoon …

Braves are two games behind the Mets at 47-42 (Mets are 48-39). Braves open the second half with a 10-game homestand against the Pirates (40-48), Reds (36-52) and Cardinals (40-45). Those three teams have a combined win percentage of .444.

Mets open the second half with a four-gamer at home with the Reds, then three at San Diego (49-38) and four at Los Angeles (49-40). Those three teams have a combined win percentage of .508.

If Braves go 7-3 to open the second half and the Mets go 5-6, the Braves will take a 1/2-game lead in the East.

The Braves have nine games left against the Mets. If Atlanta can duplicate its 6-3 first-half showing against New York in the second half, that boosts the Braves’ lead to 3 1/2 games.

I don’t think any reasonable, objective observer would dismiss either of those scenarios. The Mets, since starting 33-17, are 15-22, a .405 win percentage.

Were the above two scenarios to happen, all the Braves would have to do to reach 90 wins is go 30-24, play .554 ball. For the Mets to reach 90 wins if the two above scenarios come to pass, New York would have to go 34-21 the rest of the way, a .618 win percentage.

So, start fast Braves and beat the Mets when you play them. Those 19 games for Atlanta could go a long way in determining if Los Bravos play in October.

Now, pitching (more transition): Take out his first start May 26 against Philly (I was there, and he only had one bad inning) and his disaster against the Red Sox June 20, and here are Buddy Carlyle’s numbers in his other six starts:

35.1 IP, 28 H, 11 ER, 8 BB, 26 K, 2.80 ERA

Take that in the second half six out of every eight starts from your fourth starter? Darn right you would.

Now, the other side of the coin: Wickman’s last 10 games — ERA of 7.56. The big man has given up 11 hits and seven earned runs in his last five appearances, covering 4.1 innings. He does have two saves in that stretch, but it’s made Braves Nation quite nervous.

Now, press box seating (look at all this transition!): Having been very blessed to cover a handful of big-time events, but working for small fishwrappers, I always landed in the overflow press box. That was fine with me (the light show at halftime of the Super Bowl I went to was awesome from the top of the stadium at the 5-yard line, ha ha!).

World Series? Really cold. All-Star game? Really hot. But I did get a baseball that year, which never would have happened if I was in my normal seat behind home plate in the main box.

Anyway, I think I would’ve enjoyed sitting down the line in left last night. Looked like the sun was shining, and the view was awesome. When I covered the Super Bowl a few years ago, I really enjoyed being outside. The main press box there was enclosed, and sitting in there was like watching football in a sound studio. Covered a major college football game there each year and used to love being on the sidelines or walking around the stadium (normally just wrote a column or flavor piece there, so it wasn’t like I really had to keep up with play by play).

Now, Bonds (what’s one more transition?): Gotta agree with the esteemed Grinch on his assessment of Barr-oid. Bonds tried so hard last night to come off as innocent when being interviewed by Gammons. Did anybody catch that look he gave Gammons as the interview ended? Simply put, there is class (Gammons) and there is @$$ (Bonds).

Now, ESPN (all these transitions? Must be a record … worthy of Wurlitzer consideration? Nah!): The E stands for Entertainment, which is why I don’t totally scream about the hot dog eating contest, the spelling bee or poker. I don’t watch any of it, but ESPN has to do what ESPN has to do (don’t we all).

Once upon a time, ESPN was the place to go for instant sports updates. Now, you can go everywhere from Yahoo to online fishwrappers to your cell phone. Gotta be able to compete, so ESPN tries to offer up different stuff. So be it.

But for my money, this contest they’re having about “Who’s Now” is just plain stupid. Who cares if Tiger Woods is bigger than Matt Leinart? Just talk about the damn games and leave well enough alone.

Time to take a break and get some work done. That’s all I got, so for now, the Scribe abides.

—30—

By Lee

July 10, 2007 8:09 AM | Link to this

Just had a chance to read last night’s post. Will throw in my .02 cents on ESPN.

Braveheart -

Agree with a lot of your 3:57 A.M. post. I thought the same about Kit Hoover being replaced with Dana Jacobson. This is 2007 so I dare say looks is very darn important for viewing audience attraction. Especially a man directed channel such as ESPN. Just look at how the morning newswomen attempt to pull a Sharon Stone moment from time to time. This is especially true on American Morning and Fox’s Friends and News Morning Show. Jacobson has the body of a small linebacker.

Mike Lupica is a know-it-all jerk who almost refuses to let anyone have any say on “The Sports Reporters”. The more he opens his mouth, the less sports knowledge one realizes he has.

Stuart Scott - amen also. This guy seems to think he needs to be staring in movie roles.

PTI is by far the best show. I will confess I do watch “Around the Horn” also.

And finally Joe Theisman for Monday Night Football. I had the misfortune of seeing this a$$ at a airport in Washington D.C. years ago. Of course people was running up to him for autographs. No doubt he is a savior to that city but WHAT A JERK. For once in my life I was thankful I was a Cowboy fan. Needless to say I could care less about his autograph.

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this

I like golf and poker. And those that have never played either—at a “serious” level—don’t realize what skill is involved. But, does that make them “watchable” by the average fan? No. It also takes a lot of skill to cut hair, but it’s not one of my favorite spectator sports. That’s why they came up with the golf channel and, I hear, a poker channel is in the works. In the “different strokes for different folks” regard: My brother watches some 24-hr racing channel and you go over to his house and have to have some motorcycle race—that was run 2 weeks ago—for “background” to your conversation. Booooring!

By JasonInMaine

July 10, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Man, tough call between the Steve Phillips GM segment and this Who’s Now crap they got going on…at least the GM segment was about baseball, so I have to vote for the Who’s Now…

Regards,

Jason

By Joe Schmoe

July 10, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

My vote for worst ESPN Programming…

Well, even though Stu Scott and several other Sportscenter guys are unbearable and the “What’s Now?” segment is a terrible idea and the biggest waste of time…also, I don’t know which was the biggest joke, Steve Phillips acting as the GM of the Mets or Steve Phillips acting as the GM of every team, but my vote goes to…

The televised scrabble tournament they’ve shown in the past. I kid you not, sir…

By journalist jimmy smith

July 10, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

baseball is a funny game. little men are often fast and big men are often strong. little men who are strong and fast and big men who are fast and strong are the most coveted position players - if they can hit and field and throw. contrast this with say, horses who are fast and strong and can field but not throw and you will have a better idea of what this journalist means about baseball being a funny game. young fisherman jimmy smith once hooked a bream in a pond and fought that bream for an extended period of time. just as the bream was to be pulled from the water the bream looked at jimmy smith and spat the hook from the bream’s mouth and called this journalist a sucker. journalist learned from this experience and has taken from it a basic code of conduct that remains with this journalist to this day. never be pulled from the water on a fish hook. it is a slow day on the blog with no braves baseball. let us hope that the posts take a turn for the better as the day progresses.

By ernesto

July 10, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

Haven’t read back through the whole thread but would just like to weigh in on the unwatchableness of “Who’s Now?”

Ummm, anyone not on that segment is way more now than anyone involved with it.

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

TBFKB,

I think your view is an accurate interpretation of the way most sane adults view athletes and teams.

I think in our society we have this super-human view of athletes, almost like they are better (or at least more impressive) than the rest of us.

Don’t get me wrong, most of us could obviously never hit a ball like Pujols or run like Reyes or throw as hard as Zumaya or field like Ozzie Smith but just because a person is born with great athletic skills doesn’t mean their character is stronger than the rest of us. I think this point is so obvious that we often overlook it.

I think subconsciously we think that there is something within athletes that is better than us. Maybe we realize they aren’t any more moral or don’t struggle with the same demons but we think there is something within their character that is different.

In truth, I firmly believe that the things that separate athletes from the rest of us is that they are stronger, faster, quicker, etc. than the rest of us, and not that they have some kind of character trait that makes them better.

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

Braveheart: You were right in one of your tomes about this blog, and its’ premier bloggers. You don’t know if jjs is taking you to task, or not.

By Salty

July 10, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Oh, Grinch hence I love poker but would rather make out with Rosie O’Donell than watch golf

I am so glad I hadn’t had breakfast when I read that gem!!!

By BamaBrave

July 10, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Another two cents thrown into the ESPN discussion… People have mentioned Buck Martinez. He’s good. But I like Rick Sutcliffe too for baseball color…especially pitching insight. He can be a little goofy from time to time, but hey, if you were pounding tequila shots for nine innings, you get a little goofy too…

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

ESPN is joining the cause of all other mainstream media—trying to sweep under the rug the fact that there actually are innate differences between men and women.

I consider myself open-minded but the mainstream has gone way too far with male sensitivity and political correctness to the point where “traditional” masculinity is looked down upon.

Also, it seems ESPN wants to create a celebrity culture with athletes (Bonds on Bonds, etc.) that has worked for E!.

Does anyone realize that our obsession with celebrity is not a good thing (or at least our obsession only with people who entertain for a living even when they are not entertaining)?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

July 10, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

I’m voting for the Hot Dog contest as the worst show on ESPN. Only in America, (where obesity grows on trees), would anybody want to glorify a group of people gorging their faces with 50-60 hot dogs in the amount of time that it takes me to shave, by putting it all over every form of news media as the biggest news of the day, ON OUR NATION’S BIRTHDAY no less. Hey kids, do you want to be a national hero? No, No, No don’t worry. You don’t have to exercise or anything. Just eat these six packages of hotdogs so fast that your face turns three shades of blue….We’ll put your picture all over the news, give ya’ a trophy, and call you a champion. Whaddya say, kid?

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Here is a brainbarf that came to mind during one of my “wakeup calls” last night and I would like to run it by you. I hope, Mr. jjs, that you consider it an improvement.

What if this blog were run like parliment where all posts/remarks had to be addressed to the “Speaker”(DOB)? Some posters, Jason in Maine for instance, do that now.

With the remarks addressed directly to him, DOB,or his rep, would be perfectly in his right to delete vitriolic, far-afield, mean-spirited or whatever posts without them ever reaching “print”. It would not be censorship; it would just be the exercise of common sense and decency. That, and saving us all from boors.

What do y’all think? I am, even now, assuming the position.

By Steeledawg

July 10, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Hey guys,

I just want to give some props to my boy Brian McCann for making the All-Star team. I know his stats are down a little, but he appears to be a high character guy that hustles and doesn’t make excuses. The Braves and their fans couldn’t ask for a better representative of the team. As a fellow Duluth High Alum, I just want to say I am proud of him, and I think if he stays healthy will have a big second half.

By BT

July 10, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

I would rather take a Smoltz fastball coming at 95mph in the face rather than kiss Rosie!

By Hammer 44

July 10, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Gotta vote for this “Who’s Now” segment, which has NO value. As much as I hate the 24/7/365 drumbeat of NFL no news on “NFL Live”, at least there is some substance included. What happened to reporting current (and real) events? I’d much rather see every great play from every game (even if its soccer) than tripe like “Who’s Now”.

I do agree that my fellow UNC grad Shtew Scott is deserving of a nomination. Never cared for him, but he’s totally unwatchable now.

Poker is okay for a brief channel scan stop, but I prefer Travel Channel’s coverage to the Ess-Penn.

You could also add coverage of the “Rock-Paper-Scissors” competition to the list of nominees as well. Gimme a break.

Hey, DOB, if you get time, why don’t you take the rental car out and re-create the chase scene from “Bullitt”? Would be much more fun than dealing with Barry…..

By ACB

July 10, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Yo jimmy, I too had an experience with a talking fish. Needless to say, I no longer eat fish OR wild mushrooms.

By N8

July 10, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Pro-tonix

“And those that have never played either—at a “serious” level—don’t realize what skill is involved. But, does that make them “watchable” by the average fan? No. It also takes a lot of skill to cut hair, but it’s not one of my favorite spectator sports.”

Very well said. Whether Poker is a “sport” or not is very debatable, so I don’t have a problem with a diehard sports nut, being upset that they have to sift through 700 poker programs on every channel, and nightly on ESPN. But I don’t think airing poker is nearly annoying (even to non-poker fans) as Who’s Now is.

Poker just falls into the category of, “if it’s not your bag, than it’s not your bag”. Similar to the Table Tennis championships, bowling, golf, Australian rules football (used to LOVE watching that when I was a kid at 2:00 AM).

But the line about the haircutting was classic. Well done.

By scoff

July 10, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

This is to Will on

“I am encouraged with the recent success, but it does not matter what they do if Bob Wickman continues to close…”

Everytime I see Wickman warming up in the bullpin I like many others think WHY??? Soriano should be the closer because he has consistantly been more dominant. But at home, Wickman is 0-0 0.00 ERA, 8 for 8 in saves. On the road, he is 1-2 with an 8.31 ERA and is 8 for 12 in saves. Overall 1-2, 4.80 ERA, and 16 for 20 in saves.

On the otherhand, Soriano overall 2-1, 2.79 ERA, and is 5 for 5 in saves. At home 1-0, 3.52 ERA, and is 4 for 4 in saves. On the road he is 1-1, 2.31 ERA, and is 1 for 1 in saves.

Could the possibly use Wickman as the “home closer” and the away set-up man? As Soriano the “away closer” and the home set-up man? It may help Soriano adjust to the closer role next year if he is assigned to that job.

By Ron Roberts

July 10, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

They’ve also televised ARM WRESTLING too, just in case anybody’s forgotten!!

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

July 10, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

What’s worse than televised poker? Celebrity televised poker. Oh, I missed DOB’s question about ESPN last night…gotta be Steve Phillips as the GM. Who would take advice from that dude? If they want comments from a GM, how ‘bout one who was 1). successful and 2) wasn’t fired. Find someone who just retired or “lost the passion.”

By Braveheart

July 10, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

paladin, one fish, two fish, three fish, four, one post, two post, three post, more, one meaning, two meaning, three meaning, snore, one rant, two rant, three rant, bore, one troll, two troll, three troll, lure, one friend, two friend, three friend, sore, one rule, two rule, three rule, boor, one esteemed, two esteemed, three esteemed, lore, one denizen, two denizen, three denizen, adore, don’t know, don’t know, don’t know, anymore.

By Efrim

July 10, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

DOB

I am guessing Pittsburgh would want Salty for Ian Snell or Tom Gorzelanny.

You would definetly have to give up Matt Harrison or Brandon Jones for Bronson Arroyo. I don’t care what his ERA is, the guy pitches in a major hitters park. If you are a fly ball pitcher there, you get creamed. Imagine Chuck James ERA in that park.

What could we want from Seattle? Would they trade us George Sherrill? He is as tough a lefty reliever as there is. Other than him, I’m not quite sure what we would want.

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Braveheart: Been in the bottle again, huh? Sober up.

By Amber

July 10, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Gotta agree with the Hillbilly assessment of the Hot Dog contest. Pretty disgusting and embarrassing.

My all-time hate on ESPN is the endless, mind-numbing POKER. It is not a sport. I think sport involves getting off your *. Why do we need to be subjected to reruns of the 2006 “World Series” of Poker?

I’ve been pretty much oblivious to the “Who’s Now,” although I caught a few minutes and rolled my eyes.

Admit it, baseball as a whole gets the shaft on ESPN. Endless poker, spelling bees, face-stuffing contests - and Baseball Tonight has to be crammed into 40 minutes. And of course the constant stream of NFL coverage, year round, especially at the most crucial point of the baseball season. I enjoy the hour-long Baseball Tonight - I like to hear the discussions and debates.

And poor, poor Barroid. It just made me nauseous to watch his interview with Gammons. He’s trying to look like a sympathetic character now. If he hasn’t broken the record by the time the Giants play the Braves, I’d rather we walked him every time he came up. Rubber chickens be d*ed, I don’t want to see any Brave giving that one up.

By Fred from CT

July 10, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

I would say the hot dog eating contest is the worst idea on espn but they do have some bad stuff. arena football is also terrible.

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

scoff,

As I’ve said a few times, I think the team that doesn’t set up their bullpen around saves is the team that will have a distinct advantage.

Bullpen roles should be determined by run differential and situation. Soriano should come in late in the game, in close games, with good hitters coming up for the opposing team, whether it’s a save situation or not.

Setting up a bullpen around saves is a quintessential example of how real wisdom and common sense are overtaken by conventional “wisdom.”

By Miller

July 10, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Scoff

Interesting idea for another platoon and we all know how Mr. Cox loves a good platoon. But I believe it is a little too far fetched even for him.

Not that I wouldn’t like to see him try it for the reasons you just stated. But if JS really does read this blog as claimed perhaps he will suggest it to BC.

By knowitall

July 10, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

DOB,

While I agree with everything on your worst of ESPN list, how could you leave off Around the Horn? That show is terrible. I makes it even more noticeable because it’s followed by their best show in PTI. PTI and The Sports Reporters are about the only two things that ESPN is doing right these days.

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

My two cents on Barry Bonds:

I definitely do not sympathize with him nor do I think he is innocent, and I’m definitely not a fan of Bonds’s personality or the fact that he most likely used PHD’s. But I could care less whether a Brave gives up 755 or 756 or whether he even breaks the record. It’s fine by me. He’s without a doubt not the only player who took PHD’s. We simply don’t know enough to make judgments about how PHD’s have affected stats and longevity and injury recovery, just that they have.

So yes their should be a black cloud over the homerun record and a lot of Bonds’s stats but why single out Bonds?

I agree that his interview with Gammons was ridiculous and certainly didn’t help with any sympathy points. I think in many ways Bonds is a loser but he’s not the only loser that’s every had a lucrative and impressive career in the major leagues. I’m not trying to excuse loser-type behavior but the world is what it is. There are pathetic people and sometimes pathetic people are going to have lucrative and impressive careers.

I’ll try to just take it for what it is and not go to deep into judgments about it. Just that it’s a record that should have a cloud over it.

By ACB

July 10, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Scoff, doesn’t Wicky travel with his wife in tow? Maybe he should consider leaving the ball-and-chain at home. It has to be a major buzzkill on the road.

By TheSouthernJackAss

July 10, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Enough about ESPN programming already—it all sucks!…now, TheJackAss is feelin’ a bit antsy, feelin’ like slammin’ about 40 lbs. of prime boot leather right into some unwary A$sClown’s feculent piehole…feelin’ like doin’ a little troll huntin’…maybe tack a couple jackal hides to the back of my barn door while I’m at it…damn! Stinky was a credit to some of these swashing sphincters…

Some of the puerile tripe that has been slimed onto this award-winning blog as of late, by some of these nescient johnny-come-lately, wannabe journalists, has caused TheJackAss to hear loud, angry voices in his head, he hears this weird music playin’ too, banjos, fiddles, spoons, jugs, & washboards, but there ain’t nobody there doin’ the playin’…

Time to don the camo, cinch up the Brogans, load the guns, & saddle the mule…go a scoutin’ around a bit, mark a few targets, then get down to brass tacks…once again do what made TheJackAss>>TheJackAss…fair warnin’…

Give me Pith, or give me Death!!!…

By Lew

July 10, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

ACB-Never ran (or swam, for that matter) into a talking fish, but Lord those mushrooms are something else.

By knowitall

July 10, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

I don’t worry about Bonds breaking the record anymore because I know that he’s just keeping it warm for A-Rod. Then we can truly celebrate the record being broken.

By Halloweenhead (eware)

July 10, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

The article by Bowman on Elvis Andrus has me pretty excited. Therefore, I feel pretty comfortable in trading Escobar and holding on to Edgar through the end of his contract.

Salty, on the otherhand…hold on to this guy. I like his attitude about playing wherever he’s needed.

By Carolina Lady

July 10, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

ESPN is still on the air?? Huh.

By glove51

July 10, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Andrus is unlikely to be ready for the bigs by the beginning of 2009 when Edgar’s contract will be up. Also: who will be our 3rd baseman if Chipper doesn’t hold up physically?

I love Saltalamacchia’s game, I really do. But, if he can get the Braves a good pitcher they can not afford to tie up his value when the Braves are set on McCann as the catcher for the immediate future.

That is, UNLESS both the Braves and Salty are willing to make him primarily a 1st baseman

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Why do you guys keep coming up with these scenarios where we trade Escobar? He is not going to be a utility man; he is going to be a star. If we trade him, it will be the worse move this team has made since we traded Brett Butler—in an era before this free-agency crap where he would have played for us forever!

By JasonInMaine

July 10, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Did anyone see the story on the most popular teams in baseball? According to the Harris poll (from FoxSports.com):

“As Major League Baseball heads into the All-Star Game, the Toronto Blue Jays find themselves at the bottom as the least favorite baseball team among those who follow Major League Baseball, according to results of a Harris Poll conducted online by Harris Interactive.

The Blue Jays ranked 30th behind the Washington Nationals (29th), Kansas City Royals (28th), Colorado Rockies (27th) and San Diego Padres (26th)

The NY Yankees were No.1 for the fifth year in a row. The Atlanta Braves jump up one spot to No. 2 while the Boston Red Sox are in third place on the list. Rounding out the top five are the St Louis Cardinals at No. 4 and the Chicago Cubs at No. 5.”

Regards,

Jason

By Austin

July 10, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Top 5 ESPN Programming 1.PTI (Great Chemistry with Tony and Michael) 2.Baseball Tonight 3.Arena Football (During the Playoffs) 4.First Take (Great Variety of Topics) 5.Around the Horn

Worst Programming 1.Spelling Bee 2.Poker 3.Outside the Lines 4.The Sports Reporters 5.Arm Wrestling

By ACB

July 10, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Lew-Dude, it was sooo intense. A little later, I went to the Georiga-Aquarium and had, like, these Horrid flashbacks. Now, I can’t even go down the frozen foods aisle at the Super Market.

By DonCoburleone

July 10, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

From Ken Rosenthal yesterday:

“The Braves weren’t sure who would play second base when they declined to offer Marcus Giles a contract, but they’ve come up with a dynamic platoon of Kelly Johnson and Yunel Escobar. Johnson is frustrated over losing playing time, but concedes, “You’ve got to hit (Escobar) somewhere.” The Braves conceivably could trade Edgar Renteria to save money this off-season and open up shortstop for Escobar…”

By Lew

July 10, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Glove51-There is a team option on Renteria for 09, too. If the option is declined, the Red Sox pay the payoff price.

By Lew

July 10, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

ACB-You didn’t take revenge on the Whale Sharks, did you?

By Efrim

July 10, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

What could you get for Renteria right now on the open market?

The Braves could most definetly acquire that starting pitcher that they need. But we would lack a veteran presence in that 2 hole.

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Pro-tonix,

Depends on what the Braves get as to whether trading Escobar is a good or bad idea.

And, yes, the Brett Butler trade was almost certainly the worst in Atlanta Braves history but it wasn’t before free agency.

In 1987 he was a free agent and signed with the Giants. Three years later he signed with the Dodgers.

Butler was from LA and there’s a chance he would have left the Braves for a west coast team in 1987, had he stayed. Of course, we’ll never know…but the free agent era had already begun when he was traded.

While I’m rambling about Atlanta Braves past, I think another bad move happened soon after the Butler trade when they fired Joe Torre after a first-place and two second-place finishes.

By Efrim

July 10, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

I was unaware Bronson Arroyo was owed 31.45 million from 2008-2010.

Not a chance the Braves could afford him at that price.

By David O'Brien

July 10, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Glove, your 11:49 post pretty well summed up the questions/decisions on those two youngsters and the future. No easy answers, just gotta decide what the best scenario is, taking into account what they could get for this guy or that.

I talked to Ken about that Renteria scenario a couple days ago when we were sitting next to each other in the pressbox. It just makes some sense, that they’d consider moving Edgar if they really don’t want to trade Escobar. To me, you CAN’T bring back Escobar as a platoon guy next year. No way. He’s an every-day player. So you could also consider moving Kelly, if you find a team that’s enamored of him and would give you value in return.

Lots of different ways you can go.

And with that, I must go get massive coffee. None in the room. Only negative with hotel I’m staying in.

Skipped the All-Star Gala last night and must’ve walked five miles, from Transamerica building to market, up to Virgin Records, over through Chinatown to North Beach and City Lights Books. What a great city for walking around at night. But the back/hamstrings are aching this morning from all the hills.

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Shaun I stand corrected on the free-agency. And yes, Butler was from the left coast, but he loved it in Atlanta.

As for Escobar, he reminds me of a young Roberto Clemente. Not nearly as “fluid” as Clemente became, but the young Clemente was pretty “raw” too.

As an aside(I know! Booring!)I was part of the aerial search team when Clemente’s plane went down. Now that was a tragedy for both baseball and society.

By ACB

July 10, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Lew-Dude, I did, like, black out at one point at the Aquarium. When I came to, I was soacking wet with hainous puke-breath.

The whale was doing cartwheels and smiling, though.

By TennesseePaul

July 10, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

FYI
Smashing Pumpkins new album is out today. New tour dates are released. They will be playing at the Fox theater in August in Atlanta. Tickets on sale Saturday. Listings below

Sat 9/8 Montreal, CAN Osheaga Festival
Sun 9/9 Toronto, CAN Virgin Festival
Thu 9/13 Las Vegas, NV The Pearl Theatre
Sun 9/16 Tuscon, AZ Tucson Electric Park
Tue 9/18 Phoenix, AZ Dodge Theater
Wed 9/19 San Diego, CA Bayside Amphitheatre
Fri 9/21 Ridgefield, WA Clark County Amphitheatre
Sat 9/22 Seattle, WA Qwest Field
Mon 9/24 Vancouver, CAN PNE Forum
Fri 9/28 Salt Lake City, UT McKay Center (U of Utah)
Sun 9/30 Denver, CO Red Rocks
Tue 10/2 St. Paul, MN Wilkins Auditorium
Thu 10/4 Normal, IL Braden Auditorium
Sun 10/7 Detroit, MI Fox Theater
Tue 10/9 Pittsburgh, PA Palumbo Center
Thu 10/11 Columbus, OH LC Pavilion
Mon 10/15 Boston, MA Orpheum Theater
Tue 10/16 Boston, MA Orpheum Theater
Sun 10/21 Philadelphia, PA Tower Theater
Mon 10/22 Philadelphia, PA Tower Theater
Thu 10/25 Memphis, TN Mud Island Amphitheatre
Sat 10/27 New Orleans, LA City Park
Tue 10/30 Atlanta, GA Fox Theatre
Sat 11/3 Dallas, TX Nokia Theatre
Mon 11/5 Nashville, TN Ryman Theatre

By ACB

July 10, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Lew-Dude, I did, like, black out at one point at the Aquarium. When I came to, I was soacking wet with hainous puke-breath.

The whale was doing cartwheels and smiling, though.

By N8

July 10, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

One more thing regarding ESPN’s programming (along with other channels when it comes to sports - or “compititions” like Poker).

WHY is it do you think that ESPN dedicates about 1/4 of it’s airtime per day to poker? I’ll assume because people watch it, right?

VERY similar to why TBS would rather show Seinfeld, Friends and Everybody Loves Raymond reruns over Braves games. Not to mention, that next year TBS is going to continue showing baseball, but NOT exclusively Braves games? WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

TV networks are out to make money. PERIOD. How do they make money? By selling advertising. How do they convince companies to pay for ads on their networks? By convincing them, that people are watching. How do they convince them that people are watching and will CONTINUE to watch? By airing programs that have a track record of being watched.

So in conclusion, we can assume that:

a) More people in the general public are interested in watching Poker on ESPN than many other sports.

b) Most of the online poker companies, more than likely pay out of their AZZES for advertising during these broadcasts.

c) Potential advertisers would rather PAY for ads on TBS for regular programming over baseball, and apparently they would rather pay for ads, during baseball games that DON’T include the Atlanta Braves.

Obviously, if Ted still owned TBS and the Braves, this would NEVER even come close to happening. The Braves and TBS were his little babies. Ted was about making as much money as the next guy, but since the Braves were HIS product, he wanted as many people nation wide (you know….America’s Team), to see Braves games whenever possible.

Raise your hand, if you grew up in a area WITHOUT a local team, but became a Braves fan because you had TWO choices. The Braves or the Cubs.

I live in Twins territory and despise them (actually enjoy the way that team plays, but can’t stand the constant barrage of Twins ads everywhere, along with the frickin Vikings). I clung onto the Braves, because I knew the players from watching them every night, and when I say every night, I mean EVERY night. TBS had to be broadcasting about 150 games each season back in the early 80’s.

Anyhow, it’s been a LONG time, since ESPN (or MTV for that matter), has “cared” about being unique and bringing the athletes/artists into our living rooms. Now, like everybody else, it’s about the coin. Leaving the diehard sports/music fan to suffer through endless garbage that you’re more than likely NOT interested in.

Do you all like how I’m trying to change the subject off of ESPN, towards MTV?

I KNOW that DOB absolutely loves what MTV has done for the music industry, so I can’t wait to hear his take. LOL!

By Efrim

July 10, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

The question being, what type of pitcher can you get for Salty. Ian Snell? Jered Weaver? Those guys are they types of pitchers I would want for Salty. Not some 35 year old who has lost tons of velocity like Jose Contreras.

By ACB

July 10, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Wwwhhhhooaaa!!! That was so0oo cool. How did I do that?

By beachcomber

July 10, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Pro-tonix - your 11:56 post - excellent. This kid is headed for several all star games and seems to have the potential to lift a team on his shoulders with his glove, his speed and his bat. He’s not there yet but it’s just a matter of time.

Can’t think of anybody out there who might be traded at mid season who I would take for Escobar.

By TennesseePaul

July 10, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

If Salty keeps succeeding at the plate, his time at 1B will increase. Salty’s bat already forced the hand once just to get him up here. If he keeps swinging well, there is no reason not to move him to first. Sure, his trade value is high as a catcher, but if he moves to first, he satisfies a team need, he remains valuable to the Braves, and that is the #1 priorty. And he can catch in a pinch if needed.
The untouchable tag put on him makes me think JS would like to see if Salty can manage 1B. It hasn’t been pretty so far, but it hasn’t been atrocious either. Perhaps this offseason he will work out every day like Kelly did last offseason. With the possibility of AJ walking, the need for a big bat makes Salty more of a keeper.
On that note, with the possibility of resigning AJ, the trading of Renteria becomes likely, which means Escobar stays. It’s a tough situation. And I hate to think of any one of those four leaving (Escobar, Renteria, Salty, or AJ), but honestly, this is the type of problem you want to have. I just hope the Braves make the most of it this season while they are all 4 on the team.

By Baron

July 10, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

AS OF 12:54 PM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HAS DECLARED THE BLOG POST “HOT HITTING HOSS” STILL MIA… AND YA’LL IS ONLY SPELLED Y’ALL BY BETHUNE-COOKMAN GRADUATES OF A CERTAIN AGE

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Pro-tonix,

Not trying to argue something that’s not really worth arguing over but I’m not so sure Butler would have stayed in Atlanta assuming the rest of the Braves would have still been as bad as they wound up being in the mid- to late-1980s.

You could make a very valid argument they would have been much better with Butler and Jacoby and maybe they would have stayed with the Braves but by 1984 the pitching was average and in 1985 the pitching was awful. I think eventually the Braves would have turned into a mediocre to bad team with or without Butler and Jacoby. But there’s certainly no way to know.

I will agree, though, that trading away Butler and Jacoby was a horrible thing.

By DAP

July 10, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

jasoninmaine i was shocked to see that braves are in 2nd place on that list. interesting.

lets talk about the all star game, ya’ll! enough of this “why does ESPN suck” convo. maybe its just an exibition, but its a ball game, and bragging rights are on the line!

who has the better lineup tonight, and whos gonna come out on top and why? the AL has a scary lineup for sure, but im pulling for a NL victory tonight. i think this is our year!

By BravesFanInRockies

July 10, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

N8,

Hand up, basically.

I grew up in N.C. before Ted bought the Braves but they were my team, thanks to Milo and Ernie on the wireless. When Ted purchased the club and started broadcasting games on the UHF station he owned, I was hooked even more. Once “W”TBS went on the cable system, there was no hope for this guy, who grew up with a dad who loved the Yanks.

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Baron Why don’t we just spell it “yawl” and be done with it?

By Ron Roberts

July 10, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Sorry, but with Brittle Jones at 3B and in our lineup, I don’t ship off Edgar Renteria for anything unless it’s an established ace with more than this season on his contract.

There’s not much of that getting shopped around, last I checked.

If Chipper goes down and Andruw continues to slump, with Edgar gone, I just don’t see our offense doing much. Escobar will hit a wall, eventually; nearly 99% of them do, and I just don’t think we can lose positional depth and call ourselves a contender at the same time.

We have in-house options for patching up a rotation issue that we should explore before tossing out our (should-be) All-Star veteran SS.

Buddy Carlyle’s earned a spot til he implodes, and (this applies to knee-jerk bloggers…) I mean more than one bad start. That leaves us with only one question mark in the rotation, with Kyle Davies as our current option, and still with the tools to do the job. It’s his head-game that needs tweaking. And if he can’t do it, Oscar Villareal can. He’s sporting his 3.78 ERA in 30 games, though we’ve waste those efforts, since we’re all of 5-25 in games he pitches in. I’ve said for weeks now it’d be better if he were the guy used to start those games instead of eating up innings after somebody else has started and blown the game away for us.

By Pro-tonix

July 10, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Shaun: OK, we will agree to disagree, to a point. Why don’t you, instead of just pickin’ at me, tell me/us who you would trade Escobar for—that will be available? Then, I’ll just sit back and watch and listen while the hounds tree ya.

By Tom

July 10, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

I brought this up a few months ago but I did not get any response. So why I am expecting any now, I’m not sure but here goes…

Expect LaRoche back in a Braves uni next year. Yes we will be trashing that lazy swing in just a few months. I always expected Roche to bolt the RATS since he was traded. He has a one year deal. It is worth 3.2mil +/- and he hates it there.

If JS thinks that could be a possibility then why not trade Salty and or Thor now. Even though Roche drove me crazy last year he became much more of a factor for success after the break. I got to where I could stand to watch when he was up.

Put Rocher back in the 7 hole in ATL and he would probably hit 30/100 for us and play that solid 1b too.

Just sayin’, do not be surprised if it happens.

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Isn’t it more likely they’ll move Renteria that Johnson since Renteria is more expensive and older?

And I know it’s a long ways away—maybe four or five years—but what happens if Andrus continues to develop and Escobar is still here? Does Chipper move to first, Escobar to third, Andrus to short?

By Summerteeth

July 10, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

What’s this about Dan Patrick leaving ESPN…..

….to take over for Bob Barker on The Price is Right?!?!?

Think about it…Millions for about 2-3 hours of work a day for 30 years….Hmmmmm.

By Mackey Sasser

July 10, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

um Baron, y’all is spelled y’all because it’s a contraction of you and all. The “ou” are what’s gone so that’s where the ’ goes. get it? Behtune Cookman indeed.

By Lew

July 10, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber-Dude, is the Pinellas County sun getting to you? Now I don’t want Escobar traded, either and he has gotten off to a fine start. He has, I hope, a great ML career ahead of him. However…..Carrying a team on his back? Dude, I have yet to see that level of play from the guy. He has very little power and has all of what, 15 games behind him? No, a good, solid, perhaps somewhat exceptional player, but carrying the team? I just don’t see it coming from a line drive hitter with a decent glove.

By Efrim

July 10, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Looking at the schedule:

Braves need to go 15-8 these first 23 games to get to 62-50.

From there, 50 games to go and 28-22 will be needed to make the playoffs.

90-72 will win the Braves the division or at least the wild card.

Any less and the Braves will not make the post season.

By Shaun

July 10, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Pro-tonix,

I don’t know if I would trade him for anyone that is available but then again I don’t know what’s available.

I would probably trade him for both Contreras and Vazquez but I doubt the Sox would take just Escobar in a deal for those two.

If a good number one or two starter were to become available (for some reason), of course I’d trade him for that.

But, your point is well taken, I don’t see it’s worth moving him for a realistic trade at this point. But then again, how can we know what is available.

By All Spin Zone

July 10, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this