AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > June > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USChipper update: No early DL exit
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Just up from the clubhouse and have a Chipper Jones update for you. The CT scan he got yesterday revealed no fractures, but the Braves hand specialist — Dr. Gary Lourie — told him the bruising he was suffering in the base of his hands was a problem that typically required six weeks to heal.
The injury happened more than three weeks ago — on a collision May 11 in Pittsburgh — so that’s not to say Jones is looking at missing that much time from this point forward. But it’s safe to say Jones won’t be coming off the disabled list when he’s eligible on Friday.
“I bled into the bone where it meets the ligament and they said that could take up to six weeks to heal,” Jones said. “They were talking about putting me in hard casts for a week to 10 days to immobilize the wrists because you aggravate it in everything you do — playing with your kids, taking off your socks.”
Jones is in splints instead and received three more cortisone shots — two in his left hand and one in his right. (He received one shot in his right hand two weeks ago.)
“It happened almost a month ago,” Jones said. “(Being) far enough along, I’m hoping these shots really help speed up the process….It’s going to take a little longer.”
When asked if he’d be out for another couple weeks, Jones said: “I don’t know. I’m going to see how I feel when he lets me out of these splints. And I can take a swing with the bat and start easing my way back into it. Judging how I feel when the shots (take effect), then it’s just a matter of being able to tolerate the knob of the bat when it hits that area.”
Chipper said he talked the doctor into splints so he could continue to get treatment, move and flex those muscles some, and of course so he’ll have a better quality of life. This way he can drive himself to the ballpark, for one.
As for the game, or should we say gameS….It’s hooky time, good bloggers, and a doubleheader to boot. And surely the Braves won’t give the blog nation twice as much to moan about? John Smoltz is going today in Game 2, and he doesn’t go long without something positive happening. So I predict a split, at worst.
Yeah, I know, go out on a giant limb there. But it will be interesting to see how Smoltz does. Any time there’s anything not feeling right with a shoulder or elbow, it should cause some alarm, but Smoltz said his shoulder problem was a tweak (during a warm-up pitch in Milwaukee) and he was being smart this time, taking himself out of the game.
So we’ll see how he does.
Lineup watch: Kelly Johnson is out of the lineup for Game 1 after going 0-for-5 last night, his second 0-for-5 of the year. He struck out three times and bounced into a double play. Willie Harris is batting leadoff and Pete Orr is playing second.
A little number I came across last night that feels pertinent to this series: take out the Braves’ 6-3 record against the New York Mets, and the Braves are just 11-13 against the rest of NL East, including 2-4 against the Marlins heading into today’s doubleheader.
To me that says the Braves are bearing down for games against the Mets, and having their troubles against everybody else. Their dropping three out of four last month in Washington was a pretty good example. Getting swept at home by the Phillies another.
Yunel Escobar’s dad is supposed to be here today. Coming up from Miami. In a spring training game in March, Mariano Escobar saw his son play in a Braves uniform for the first time. It’d been only six weeks or so since he got a visa to join his son in the U.S. Seeing Yunel brought him to tears that day. I can only imagine what it will feel like for him to see Escobar play in a major league stadium. Chills, surely.
The Braves public relations staff threw out an interesting note. On Saturday in Chicago, the Braves had six countries represented in their lineup: Canada (Scott Thorman), Colombia (Edgar Renteria), Cuba (Escobar), Curacao (Andruw Jones), Venezuela (Martin Prado) and the U.S. And the cool thing is you don’t even really think about it. We have a baseball melting pot here, and I think that’s neat. Say whatever you want to say, Gary Sheffield.
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Comments
By Yuniel Jones
June 5, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Hope Escobar can keep the bat going while Chipper is out. I would rather have Chipper back 100% than to rush back with anything less.
By Thrillhouse44
June 5, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this
SIX weeks? Man, I hope Escobar doesn’t fall off. We need him while Chipper is down. Here’s to Chipper healing quicker than expected!
By Fred from CT
June 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
we need a sweep today.
By LL
June 5, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
Chipper get well.
By SRF
June 5, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
Your stats about the NL East are why I said last week (and was called an idiot) that the Braves are a good team but not great - and not in the same league as the Mets and RedSox. Now here we are, several mediocre games later and I stand by my statement.
People - we have 1 starting pitcher - ONE !! And he is not that healthy. The ERA for the 5th pitcher slot is over 10 and the 3rd and 4th slots are not exactly rosy. Now - Hudson has forgotten how to pitch.
So tell me - how is this Championship caliber ?
By Tomahawkin' Again
June 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
Wow, to read that Chipper might be out another 2-3 weeks makes it so important to rack up the wins the next 7 games against the Fish and Cubbies. Because that stretch from June 12 through 24 is going to be brutal, even if we had a healthy Chipper. And of course, Orr grounds out to end the threat in the 2nd.
By Douger
June 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
Not sure what Bobby is doing with Kelly Johnson. Benching him after an 0-for-5, OK, but he also sat him after 3 and 4-hit games recently. I think Johnson has played well enough to get starts after a few 0-fers. I guess Thorman is operating under a different policy. Thorman and Orr in the same lineup doesn’t give me much confidence in Game 1 with Mitre pitching. Bobby is terrific, but he has had his favorites over the years. Remember in the 1991 Series when he stuck with Sid Bream despite his slump. And when he played Keith Lockhart over Marcus Giles in the playoffs. I think Bobby has an affection for weak-hitting, play hard middle infielders because he was one himself.
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
I’ll point this out for everybody.
You know, since I like to “dig” for stats that distort reality and “back” my point.
Scott Thorman has hit .184 since May 1st. A span, covering 33 games.
Ryan Langerhans was “given up on” after only 24 games, while batting .192.
Ironically, since May 1st, Langerhans has hit .244.
At what point does THORMAN need to be sent down? I’m not saying give up on him. He looks like he has a successful future ahead of him.
I’m just not sure that that “successful future” is in June and July of 2007.
Just a thought.
By sammy miller
June 5, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
When I had that problem with my hans they put me in a foot cast.
By Joe
June 5, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
If and when Chipper comes back, it is time to say goodbye to Chris Woodward and keep Yunel Escobar on the ML roster. Yunel has already done more in 3 games to contribute to the team than Woodward has done in 38 games this season. Young players tend to add a spark to the team.
Yunel has 6 hits in 12 at-bats (.500)with 3 extra base hits and 2 RBIs. Woodward has only 16 hits in 70 at-bats (.229) with 3 extra base hits and only 4 RBIs.
By Dr. Jay
June 5, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Sobering stuff from SRF…and I can’t argue. We’ll know by the end of this month if we can stay in the playoff race. If so, anything can happen. We need only to remember St. Louis last year.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
SRF,
I agree that the Braves aren’t in the class with the Red Sox and probably not the Mets but do they have to be?
Were the Cardinals in the same class with the Tigers or Mets last season?
By snowball's chance
June 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
I wonder if Chipper going on the DL has something to do with Andruw looking like a different batter. Andruw has stepped up before when Chipper went down. That corkscrew swing was painful to watch.
By Jim
June 5, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
I believe that Thorman is out of options. He cannot be sent down.
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Plenty of time left to figure that out SRF. I seriously doubt this is the same team that will be heading into September and October. IMO, there is no doubt we need another starting pitcher (a #3 at worst) if we want to compete for a World Series… But hey, the Braves are still one of the top 4 teams in the NL and that’s all that matters (remember how the Cardinals were the 4th best team in the NL heading into the playoffs last year???)
By Fred from CT
June 5, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
N8…Don’t shoot the messenger. I agree on thorman
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this
Hey does anyone know if this current game is on TBS????
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
A SHAME THAT WE CAN’T HELP BUDDY OUT BY HITTING MITRE HARD!!!!!
By BravesFanInRockies
June 5, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
47 pitches through four innings. Buddy must be saying, Here it is, hit it — and it’s working pretty well so far.
Let’s give him some runs!
By AthensBrave
June 5, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
The braves need to get something going off Mitre and sweep the day/night doubleheader. I hate the pesky Marlins
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Once Francoeur learned that there are hits to be had to right field, it seems to me that his swing is ALWAYS to that direction. I don’t have data to back me up, but I don’t think I’ve seen him drive anything to left in quite a long time. I long for a few of those dramatic homers.
By MEB
June 5, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
DonC… the next TBS game is not until Friday against the Cubs. Todays games are both on SportsSouth. On the Braves MLB site the calender shows the network carrying all of the games.
By Caleb
June 5, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
The top 4 offenses, in terms of runs scored, are in the N.L. East. I wonder if that’s because they’re good offenses or because of the bad pitching in the division (since most of the games up to this point have been within the division).
By sri
June 5, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
A typical day at the ballpark for the Braves - so frustrating as to how we can make average pitchers look really good!!!! the stat posted by Rogers above 6-3 against Mets, 11-13 against the rest of mediocore NL east.. i am starting to think it has something to do with fire in the belly!!
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
Bummer for Chipper. But when he returns he will be the force that he is. The team is better with him. I hope he heals swiftly.
Now, this team needs to plate some runs fast before Carlyle breaks down and gives the Fish a huge lead.
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
I do see what you’re talking about though SRF. I mean, take away the Braves 7-1 start and they are 25-24 on the season… The more I watch them play the more I think the 25-24 record (.510 winning %)is much closer to what they really are than the current 32-25 record (.561 winning %). Or more simply put, they seem more like an 83 or 84 win team than a 91 or 92 win team….
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
6 pitches!! Are you kidding me!!
I guess they don’t want Mitre to work this game, just give him an easy one.
This is ridiculous. The Braves better start hitting these type of pitchers, or this team will be watching the playoffs.
Pardon my negativity, but this is just getting stupid.
Come on Braves, wake up!
Geaux Braves!!
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
DonC, both games are on Sports South.
By Joe
June 5, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone:
Both of today’s Braves games are on SportSouth.
By Burt
June 5, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone: Both games today are on Sports South.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
DonC: No. It’s on Sports South.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
Well, time for me to weigh in on this whole “Salty” thing…I think he’s pretty good.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
Nice. Time to follow that pick with a smash Salty!
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
sri you may want to check your stats, Sergio Mitre has an era of well below 2.00 right now and this is his 10th start of the year already… In other words, nobody has been able to hit him yet.
By Tomahawkin' Again
June 5, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
You know, I haven’t been on this move McCann to 1st and put Salty in as the everyday catcher deal, but hmmm…2 Marlins thrown out trying to steal today and that double he just hit. Maybe, some of you on this blog have been right all along.
By Joe
June 5, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
Salty with a leadoff double in the 5th, trailing 1-0. Pete Orr can’t bunt the runner over! He should be fired!
By BravesFanInRockies
June 5, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
Yeah he may be Bobby’s “guy,” but I’ll say it again — Pete Orr is a waste of a roster spot.
By rehydration engineer
June 5, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
DonC if your in fl, the game is on FoxSports
By Bob
June 5, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
Pete Orr is a hustler but he IS NOT a major league baseball player. What do we have to do to get the runner to 3d? This happens over and over again. Lead off double and now we may not score again. Hoping for Willy. Orr and Woodward….can we not do any better than this?
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Salty, 1st pitch foul, doubled on 3rd pitch, Orr, 1st pitch back to the pitcher, unproductive out with the pitcher batting behind him. Carlyle 2 pitches, Harris, swing at miss at 1st pitch. Anyone see a pattern. The Braves (I could be wrong, Shaun??) must have the lowest per pitch per plate appear numbers. KJ is awesome at making the pitchers work, I just wish the others would take the same approach.
Okay, off my soap box.
Geaux Braves!!
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
Jeeez, just listening to this game is going to drive me crazy… I HATE these kind of games!!!
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
I’ll keep beating this drum: everyone wants to send Orr down, release Woodward, and (N8) send Thorman down too.
Right now, we’ve only got 12 position players on the 25-man roster. There’s room to call up Pena without sending anyone down, assuming we don’t keep 13 pitchers. Maybe we will - it’s gonna be tough to send Carlyle down if he keeps pitching well today, and I doubt we’ll send Cormier down… but it’s pretty unusual to stay with 13 pitchers.
Which brings me back to my question: if we dump Orr, Woodward and Thorman, who do we replace them with?
I’d love to have better players at all these positions - I’m really not an Orr or Woodward fan! - but with possible exception of Prado, just don’t see where we have any.
When Chipper gets back, yes, Orr (probably) should be sent down, but until then, there don’t seem to be many options.
It would mean more if folks would say “dump existing player name and replace him on the roster with replacement player name”
Now, if you want to say “stop starting Pete Orr in place of Kelly Johnson against righthanders”, you’ll get NO argument from me.
By Bob
June 5, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
The Marlins Pitcher Mitre knows how to move a runner over. Orr and Woodward make you want to pull your hair out.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
Eric the Elder:
I agree with you on Francouer. It seems like his power (HRs) are down this year. It seems like he is trying to hit singles to right instead of HRs to left. A little balance would be nice…
Sucks having two (three if you count Thorman) pitchers in the lineup. Especially when your #7 hitter leads off the inning with a double and the pitchers you have batting 8th and 9th can’t do anything with it. Argh…
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
When 4 of the 9 guys in your lineup have an average under .230.
Odds are, that you’re not gonna score
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
I’m not an Orr fan, but in fairness to him, why would he bunt with the pitcher coming up next? That’s the problem with being the 8-hole batter. A base hit would have been nice, though.
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
Again, guys, Mitre (as of right now) has an era of 1.59 and has pitched 56 innings - HES NO JOKE!
By True Braves Fan
June 5, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
Is is possible that there is a dumb GM out there somewhere that will give us a Cup of Coffee for Orr, Woodward and $5.00??????????
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this
They showed he’s now 5 for 9 in throwing out runners, but one of those was a perfect strike to Prado the other night that got botched; he should be 6 for 9. Add a good number of the outs he’s made have been at the warning track; some of those are gonna start going out. Remember, I never said a word about him ‘till I saw him live at his debut. He will be special; just hope it’s here.
By AthensBrave
June 5, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
CMON BRAVES, Buddy is pitching a dandy….GET SOME FREAKING RUNS!!!!!!!!
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Right now we have 6 starting pitchers on the 25 man roster. Who still has options left?
By Burt
June 5, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
sri, Good post. Fire in the belly — or, more aptly, a lack of it — is EXACTLY how a team can do so well against the division leader and so poorly against the rest of the division. But where does that fire come from?
You can also spell it this way: Lack of leadership in the clubhouse. AJ’s not in any position to lead. Who’s going to listen to a streaky .260 hitter?
Chipper needs to be a bit more, well, chipper; I’m sick of his monotone media interviews. What’s wrong with a little excitement?
And that leaves —- who? Is there another mature everyday player who will lead??? Hmmm?
For pitchers, Smoltz has a good raw-raw edge to him (at 40!), and Hudson looks like a good cheerleader, too. But what the Braves need is a dad in the lockerroom who doubles as a cheerleader on the field. You know, the guy who will sidle up and encourage a KJ after an 0fer night, or one who will turn his hat inside out in the dugout when they need a rally. Who is it in that lockerroom who can tell Frenchy to forget about that dropped ball that let a run score, or will go bust a funny story to take Willy Harris’ mind off his E in left field last night? The Braves just don’t have that kind of guy.
So where’s all of the excitement? Remember a couple of years ago when Frenchy, McCann and crew all came up and ignited the Braves? They were jumping on each other, laughing, playing around, having a ball. They were ashamed to play with “rally caps.” Where is it now? We’re back to business as usual: Put on your suits and ties, boys, we’re headin’ to back to the office to conduct another business transaction… You, go out there and hit the ball, and if you don’t get it this time, we’ll just shrug and, well, tomorrow’s another day.
Somewhere, somehow, at some time the Braves need to relearn how to PLAY ball.
That’s my 2 cents.
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
Ok boys, Mitre’s out…now let’s get some runs!!!!
By Joe
June 5, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
MBATL: Drop Chris Woodward and Pete Orr and bring up Brandon Jones and Brayan Pena. Play Salty C, 1B, or PH. Having Pena available to catch gives us more options with Saltalamacchia.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
This is a joke
Every team capitalizes except us.
What a f*ing joke.
By Bob
June 5, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
Eric the Elder,
I agree with you, but you might at least get a sac fly from the pitcher. And yeah I realize there is not much readily available to replace Orr and Woodward with, but it is hard to conceive of anybody doing much worse. It sure is like having 3 pitchers (not named Kyle Davies) in the lineup.
DonCoburleone, you are right on about Mitre. He was tough, but it is hard to waste a pitching performance like Carlyle has given today. We haven’t seen anything like this the entire year from our number 5 guys.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
Why in the world did they take Mitre out? Fredi must have learned too much from Bobby about how to manage a bullpen!
By Eric Roberts
June 5, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this
I’m so sick of Chipper, it’s ridiculous. That guy is just an injury waiting to happen all the time. His blase attitude and tender body need to move along somewhere else. If he could at least be somewhat dependable, we could cut/demote the Albatross that is Peter Orr from our major league ball squad because Escobar looks like a solid backup. At least he’s got power to outfield, whereas Orr can barely get the ball in the air. Allegiance to such a player with obviously deficient major league skills is just blatant ignorance.
By Fiji
June 5, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
Has anyone else noticed that since Chipper stopped juicin’ that his body can’t handle the smallest of tweaks without stints on the DL? Maybe if he’d stop jerkin’ his gerkin he’d heal sooner than 6 weeks. He’s an ironman no doubt…
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
Wow, I just logged in to check the score…I see the offense is on top of its game again…
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
If he ends up losing after giving up 1 hit, albeit a homer, the Braves should not show up to the next game and be ashamed of themselves.
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
Drop Chris Woodward and Pete Orr and bring up Brandon Jones and Brayan Pena.
Joe, no backup infielders? Really?
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
Carlyle is still working a one-hitter. Unfortunately that one hit is probably enough to get him the L today.
By Fred from CT
June 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
let’s score some runs. this is crazy. buddy was amazing today for us. now let’s get him some runs. the guy deserves a win.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
A 1 hitter through seven from Buddy freakin’ Carlyle and he leaves the potential loser. Good lord.
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
7 strong from Buddy…gotta think 2 runs will win this. C’mon, its only 2 runs, guys.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You are the stat guy…how many leadoff doubles have we wasted without scoring a run?
Man, we do that ALL THE TIME!!!
Regards,
Jason
By AMG
June 5, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
I’ll be brief … .
SCORE SOME RUNS PLEASE!!!
Done.
By AthensBrave
June 5, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
THORMAN SUCKS
By Bob
June 5, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
SALTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By JS
June 5, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
Jarrod Saltalamacchia!!!
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
This offense is an absolute joke right now. I think I could shut them down.
Come on team.
Geaux Braves!!
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
Okay, I guess that’s why we don’t bunt…come one! When is this team going to be able to play fundamental baseball??
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Never mind!!
WTG Salty!!
Geaux Braves!!
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Thorman needs some plate discipline - two times in a row swung at the first pitch - two times got out. He stinks!!!
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Don’t ever, ever, ever, ever trade Salty - - not for ANYONE. Sorry to be on a soapbox, but I’ve been saying this for 3 weeks.
By AthensBrave
June 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Where is Lew when I need him? Thorman pops up a bunt and Salty hits a two run jack next pitch. GO BRAVES
By Joe
June 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
Chris Woodward pinch hits for Pete Orr. What’s the use? They are both automatic outs.
By rehydration engineer
June 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
salty showing thorman how to drive in runs
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone
I couldn’t agree with your 3:35 post more than I currently do.
I’ve been saying the same thing for about 3 weeks, and been saying it to deaf ears. Welcome to reality. Not as pretty as the fantasy world that everybody else on here lives in, but like I said, you can’t be any closer to the truth, than you are.
WAY TO GO SALTY!!
Anybody STILL think this kid shouldn’t be in the lineup EVERYDAY, until he proves otherwise?
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
Atta boy, Salty! We got our two runs, now the pen’s gotta go to work.
By Caleb
June 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
HOLY CRAP!!!! SALTY!!!!!!!!
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
Yup, Salty sure has cooled off…
SALTY RULES!!!
By AMG
June 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
It worked … thanks……Woodward? . . Wow!!!
By Bob
June 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
Woodward!!!!!!!! That decides it…get rid of Orr…
By parks
June 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
YYYYYEEEEEAAAAHHHH!!!!
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
Wow. WTG Woodward!!
This is better.
Geaux Braves!!
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
As I was sayin’….What do you think, Ron Roberts?
What the…ok, Woodward just hit one; must be the pitcher.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
No way - Woodward just hit a homerun.
WHO????
By MEB
June 5, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
OH MY!!! Salty will now be crowned as King on this blog.
OMG!!! Woodward eeks one out in left.
GO BRAVES!!!
By Mets Stink
June 5, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
Holy crap, Woodward homered!
By Daybed Wagmoe
June 5, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
SALTY!!!!!!!!!!!
WOODWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YEAH BUDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
Holy crap! Did Woodward just homer, or did my computer just screw up?
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
Okay, I am going to try and get right with God. The world must be coming to an end…
Woodward homers!! Holy snikes!
Regards,
Jason
By Tomahawkin' Again
June 5, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
Popping a bunt to the 3rd baseman. Oh my, 15 years later (see game 4, 1992 World Series, 8th inning, Berryhill popping a bunt when we have 2 runners on and no one out losing 2-0) and we still haven’t figured out small ball…AND THEN THAT JUST HAPPENED…AND THEN THAT JUST HAPPENED AGAIN!! Cox-ball at it’s best.
By Joe
June 5, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
MBATL Willie Harris and Yunel Escobar are backup infielders, really.
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
Salty!!!!! Woodward!!!!!
By BravesFanInRockies
June 5, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Salty rules, Thorman drools … and Woodward guarantees himself more PT. (Ouch.)
Could we please call up Pena so that Salty and Mac can be in the lineup every day????
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Does everyone know that in games that in 50% of the games in which Salty has had at least two ABs he has at least 2 hits???
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
I know it is a limited sample size but it just seems that Salty is a more complete player than McCann. Don’t get me wrong - I love McCann but Salty is un-freakin-believable!!!
By Caleb
June 5, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this
Bring on Soriano and Wickman!
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
OK. Here’s some MORE reality for you.
Salty has 2 HR’s in 41 AB’s.
McCan has 3 HR’s in 171 AB’s, and ONLY 1, in his last 46 games. 2 of his 3 HR’s and 6 of his 28 RBI came in the first 3 games of the season.
So that’s 1 HR and 22 RBI in 46 games from McCann. Anybody STILL say he’s not hurt, thus hurting the team by playing everyday, especially in Chipper’s and Andruw’s abscence (1 physically and 1 mentally), in the lineup.
I realize (before you all go off on me for rooting for the flavor of the week rookie), that their success won’t last for ever, once the leage catches up, forcing them to adjust. But for cryin’ out loud Bobby, GO WITH THE HOT HANDS…..until they are NOT hot anymore.
Instead, though, he chooses to go with the cold bats (Andruw and Thorman) until they “come around”.
Yeah. That right there people, is how you begin, and prolong a June Swoon, similar to last year.
When did Reitsma “come around” last year, again?
By Eric from MO
June 5, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
SRF- The reason you were called an idiot was because we are 6-3 against the Mets. Other than Perez not one of their pitchers have beat us. So you cant say we are not in their league. You can say we are not as good as them but to say we are not in their league is stupid. If we are not in their league then we would not have won all 3 series against them.
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
Ok, now it’s Salty’s fault that Thorman and McCann are struggling according to Simpson and Boog lol They are both looking over their shoulder according to them.
Salty can’t win, guess we should trade him so McCann and Thor can get comfy!
Geezuz!
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
So I guess Woodward has been keeping tabs on the blog. What ever it takes for him to produce, but I still say Pena over Woodward.
GO BRAVES
By 8th Infielder
June 5, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
I’m so sick of Woodward, when Chipper comes back from the DL we should cut him and Orr….
FREE MARTIN PRADO AND YUNEL ESCOBAR!!!!…..wait, what?
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this
I agree that Harris and Escobar should be our backup infielders and then one (Woodward/Orr) veteran just to appease Bobby.
By thats_reality
June 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
did mitre hurt himself somehow? why would you take him out with the way he was throwing? it is a double header, not smart to use your bullpen if you don’t need to. he only thew 58 pitches!
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
RAIN??????
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
Just thought I would add this as well, which just goes to show that if Salty is “up” with the Braves, he should be starting.
When Salty starts (7 games):
He is 10 for 29 (.344) with 2 HR and 5 RBI.
As a pinch hitter, or coming in off the bench:
He is 2 for 13 (.153) with O HR and 2 RBI.
Which do you all think should be his roll? Starter (somewhere), or coming off the bench?
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
What’s the delay? I’m on GameDay. It offers very little info on these matters.
By DC Braves Fan
June 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
HELL YEAH!!
Tonite’s lineup should be:
Probably won’t happen, but allow me to dream. It moves KJ temporarily into the 3rd spot (I think where he will end up at some point in his career), Renteria back into his preferred 2 spot, with some speed at the top of the lineup. THORMAN SUCKS!!!
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this
Hope this is a quick rain delay - let’s get this game over and get ready for the night game.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
Ah there it is. How bad is the rain? Did it just start up or has it been drizzlin for a while?
By parks
June 5, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
N8, Mccann is hurting the team playing everyday? You do not have to hit a HR to help the team. I’m all for getting Salty more AB’s at 1B. But playing Salty every day at C and Brian Mccann as a reserve? C’mon man
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
I’m on gameday too. Is it raining hard?
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
10Paul, I think they stopped action more due to lightening than rain. I’m 20 miles north of the stadium, and the couple of fronts that have come through here have been very short-lived. I doubt we’ll have a long delay, based on the weather where I am.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
There is no way Bobby plays both Salty and McCann tonight because we have no other options at catcher. We really need to send down our 6th starter (whoever it becomes) and bring up Pena.
Come on Bobby!
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this
Tenn Paul
RAIN delay…..pouring in ATL and lots of thunder and lightning. Covered the field. Hope it moves thru quickly.
One out top of 8th. No one on.
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this
Bloggers who aren’t getting the feed, it’s raining. I live 20 miles north of the stadium and the sun is shining. It will pass quickly.
By thats_reality
June 5, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
if salty is at 1st, you can always move him to catcher if something happens. the chances that both of them would get hurt and have to leave, in the same game are so slim, its worth the chance to play them both. i doubt salty plays both games tho. starting tomorrow tho, thorman should be the 1st choice to PH with a right on the hill.
By Bob
June 5, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
I think they pulled Mitre because he is recovering from hamstring issue and he was limping slightly last inning. Think they wanted to be careful with him. Gosh Carlyle pitched a gem. Hope this rain does not hurt Soriano, but Lordy we need the wet stuff BAD.
By DC Braves Fan
June 5, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
Isn’t Orr the emergency backup C?
Better yet, send him down between games and call up Pena.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
June 5, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this
Radar shows a fast moving storm. Looks like it will be gone pretty quickly. South Georgia is getting smoked though. Big orange and red spots down that way.
By rehydration engineer
June 5, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
thats_reality on the fl fsn broadcast they said mitre was pitching with a bad hamstring, probably why they took him out so early
By Tomahawkin' Again
June 5, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
Looking at the radar on the Natl Weather Service site, rain moving through quick and game should get underway here pretty soon. Then Soriano can continue to “rain” down strikes (sorry about that)
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
N8 and Braveheart, y’all watching this interview? With the black jacket and red background doesn’t Joe Simpson look like an older, balder Geoff Tate from Quennsryche?
By Lew
June 5, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
AthensBrave-I guess they better teach him how to play first quickly. Never said he wasn’t the better option, just that I’m not certain of his defensive readiness at first. I wish I could see McCann at first or in left, but it’s really a stretch. Salty definitely has a gun. It would be better utilized in left rather than at first, though.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
Thanks guys.
I hear the odds of a vending machine falling on a person are the same as getting struck by lightening. I’m not sure who studies this but they need to find something else to do with their time.
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
Oh then there’s the “defense” by Salty.
I realize that DOB says the scouts say McCann has better footwork, and calls a better game.
But there aint no getting around the Stolen Base/Caught Stealing numbers for both of them, either.
McCann:
26 Stolen Base attempts, 6 Caught Stealing (.231)
Salty:
10 Stolen Base attempts, 6 Caught Stealing (.600)
Now, I’m not sure about you guys. But I do consider that to be “defense” as well.
I just hope he can figure out how to play 1B, because, there is NO CHANCE of Boby giving him more than one regular start behind the plate a week (once through the rotation).
Between 1B and Catching, if he started 3-4 games a week, I’d be content with that. Unless Thorman continues to struggle, then Salty (if he stays hot), needs to be in the lineup everyday.
McCann aint goin’ anywhere. So let’s hope he get’s healthy. Because a lineup with BOTH Salty and a healthy McCann sounds pretty good to me.
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
Watching Terrence Moore on Jim Rome.
Talking about the Sheffield statement.
Moore is a bigot, no two ways about it. The AJC would not tolerate the viewpoints he expresses if he was white and he expressed opposite viewpoints.
If the shoe fits…..
By Carroll Rogers
June 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
tarp is off and they’re running back on the field…..fyi. rain delay OVER! don’t need anymore of that on doubleheader day
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
Ahh…Queensryche…It appears the Grinch also enjoys good tunes. Does the Grinch play guitar?
By Eric Roberts
June 5, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this
Brayan Pena is along the lines of Pete Orr, which means he is not a bona fide major league player. I think a 1B platoon of Salty/Thorman and then have Salty catch every 5th game when McCann needs a rest. Basically what Bobby has been doing recently except giving Salty a look at 1st every now and then. Whoever this N8 joker is needs to realize that McCann is one of our 2 best pure hitters on the team. The guy really is a hitting machine. Check out his career stats and especially last year’s. He has dominated Francoeur and Kelly Johnson, his most comparable players in terms of age and time of service, in most statistical categories. Don’t become enamored of a rookie (Salty) that will inevitably fall off over the course of the season. Granted, his power has been way down in the past 40-some games, but he’s starting to hit doubles again. Homeruns will follow.
Bobby really needs to focus on his backup 2B and 3B. I don’t think Prado is the answer, especially after he pulled that Dorn against the Cubs on Saturday and has shown he has no bat. I think the answer lies with Escobar and Woodward. At least Woodward (not just b/c of today’s bomb) has shown in the past that he has power (‘04-05 w/ the Jays).
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this
One of the first tune I learned on the guitar was a Queensryche tune. So many ages ago it seems.
By Ed Glennon
June 5, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
I think Thormann has spent too much time at Andruw’s house. They have the same swing. Someone in an earlier blog came up with the name Chris Woodless. That was great but I still like my nickname of Sleepy LaRoche. I just found out that Sheffeld thinks O.J. is innocent. What does Roger Clemens and Bill Clinton have in common? They both have a fatigued groin. At least Clinton has an excuse.
By journalist jimmy smith
June 5, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
this journalist has been labeled not to be a “true braves fan” because this journalist has had a little fun with uh, chipper. journalist does not agree that this makes jimmy smith less of a fan. braveheart should have been here when the chipper jokes frequently appeared on this blog. it was not pretty. still, journalist has been admonished for talking hammock bones and thumbs. think that will stop this journalist? nah, not really. while some bloggers are saying, “oh, golly, oh, gee”, this journalist will probably be talking toes. and pie, also talking some pie. if jimmy smith ever uses golly, gee, or jeepers in a jimmy smith post then grinch is authorized to climb on the roof and take journalist out with one clean, shot. and now, pie … it is hard to talk pie when woodward has hit a pinch hit homerun. that is pie in the face of the opposing pitcher. and whither the birds today? journalist has called for the songbirds but none have answered just yet. soon, jimmy smith will return to the sun-parched backyard to call songbirds. some little birds have tender little bird feet that cause these birds to miss time in the backyard. bird d.l.?
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
Francouer: 1. Nice hit 2. Don’t make the last out at 3rd
By Chris
June 5, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
Looks like Buddy Carlyle had a good game. I was sitting in class tracking it on my laptop. I just saw Francouer get thrown out at 3rd…shouldnt have tried to stretch it, but I’m not so sure he didn’t sneak his left hand in there. Too bad Woodward hit a homer, that will keep him around for a couple of months.
By ElbravoX
June 5, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
bad feeling…
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
Grinch
I’m listening online. (I don’t have SportSouth). Besides, I’m at work. Every now and then I show up here. :-)
Funny story about Geoff Tate. My uncle (who is about 57), has a teenage daugter that is (was?) very good friends with Geoff’s daugter, I believe they went to school together at one time. Obviously, my uncle lives in Seattle, where Tate lives.
Anyhow, he and Geoff had to go to a Britney Spears concert with the girls and their friends.
Queensryche was one of my favorite bands groing up (Operation Mindcrime is still one of my favorites if I’m in the mood). So whenever I talk to my uncle, I always give him crap. I’m totally jealous. I was supposed to be the one who got to hang out with Geoff Tate when I “grew up” (still waiting for that to happen), not my uncle, who hadn’t (and probably STILL hasn’t) ever listened to a Queensryche song in his life.
DOB
Am I allowed to mention Queensryche on the blog. LOL! Sorry, had to.
Parks
“But playing Salty every day at C and Brian Mccann as a reserve? C’mon man.”
OK dude. While I DID say that if McCann is injured, he’s probably hurting the team, more than helping it. Not just “right now”, but for the remainder of the year, if he doesn’t allow him self to get healthy for the second half. I NEVER said that Salty should start, and McCan should back him up. If I did. Tell me what time the post was, so I can go back and read it. OR DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OFF MY FINGERTIPS! (Obviously use Chris Tucker’s voice, while reading that last line).
What I’m getting at is this. McCann, does not appear to be “himself”, or what we’ve become accustomed to seeing him as. IMO, he’s still hurt. Just my opinion/guess. He’s too good to slump this long. So when I say he’s hurting the team. I don’t mean that he is costing us games by playing bad ball. What I’m saying, is that if he ends up hurting himself worse, or NOT digging out of the bad habits/approach he’s taking (while probably trying to compensate for the injury), the team will be SEVERELY hurt in his abscence, if that were to happen.
But by you thinking that he’s not “hurting” us, I’ll take that as your opinion that Chippper shouldn’t be sitting out right now, huh?
Don’t put words in my mouth…er..posts. I NEVER ONCE said that Salty should be catching everyday, and McCann should be on the bench. However, NOW that you mention it. If McCann is hurt, maybe he should sit a while until healthy. I’d trust him off the bench with a “cool” bat, over a rookie. You act like I hate McCann. I don’t. He’s probably my favorite Brave the last couple of years. But something aint right, and Salty is hot. It’s not brain surgery. Play the hot hand.
Just a thought.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
Francouer: 1. Nice hit 2. Don’t make the last out at 3rd
Correction, Efrim, it’s okay to make the last out at third when Thorman is the next hitter up. Thorman would have stranded him at second anyway. :-)
Grinch, not watching, just listening over the internet, so I will take your word for it on Joe Simpson.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this
Maybe the answer to our problem is to train both Salty and McCann at first base. Then we can have them in there almost all the time. Switching them between catching and firstbase at will. Maybe every other inning just for sh!ts and giggles.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
Good game BRAVES!
Now, let’s finish off a sweep of this double header and lay to rest any whispers of sinking ships.
GO BRAVES!!
By Mitchie-san
June 5, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this
Ball Game!
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this
Great job of framing that last strike!!
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
WTG Braves. I really didn’t expect this team to win this game, so this is a pleasant surprise.
Geaux Braves!!
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
BRAVES WIN! MAGIC NUMBER IS 110!
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this
Nice to see us “steal” a win with Buddy on the mound. Not trying to be negative about Buddy, I’m happy for him, but the matchup today favored the Fish. A sweep today would be nice…
By parks
June 5, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
N8, you implied that we should go with the hot hand. Which to me means sit Mccann untill Salty cools off. What a way to help Mccann’s cofindence than to say If you don’t hit higher than .280 and start jacking HR’s you sit. Which is exactly what message that move would send.
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I know I’m not regarded as a blog “regular,” but your quote was from my post, not Efrim’s. I suppose Thor might have stranded him at second or at third, but by being out by 10 feet, we’ll never know.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this
Frenchy probably knew it was worth the risk trying to get to 3rd…he knew Thorman was up after him so the only chance he had to score was to force a bad throw…
Just kidding…just kidding. Good game by the Bravos…now, hopefully Smoltz will be his dominant, healthy self and we will get the sweep!
By Fred from CT
June 5, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
that makes up for last nights loss now win tonight
By parks
June 5, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
N8, b/c Mccann went through a slump does not mean that he is still HURT. How long do you suggest we sit him out. 1 week?, 2 weeks?, a month?. How do we know when his “injury” is over? He says its fine and their is no more bruising or anything. Your right, lets just sit him for 2 weeks and hope his power comes back that so far in his career has been streaky anyways.
By BravesFanInRockies
June 5, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
So glad they got runs for Buddy and didn’t waste that stellar start. He earned that win.
I also hope Cormier’s start was a fluke and that he can at least show the form he had in ‘06. After all, Sunday he was in Wrigley with the wind blowing out and the Cubbies were p.o’ed because of the madness with Lou and the pugilists (a great name for a rock band, BTW.)
How ‘bout a sweep?
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this
So nice to have a shut down guy like Soriano. Where would we be without him???
I know its difficult to sweep a double dip, but lets atone for last nights loss.
That still stings.
Like I said before, lets give Salty a look at first for tonights game…..
By BravesFanInRockies
June 5, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
Sweet Lou and the Pugilists would be a better name for a rock band …
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
eric the elder, what are you talking about? you’re a regular. you don’t post alot (compared to some of us) but your posts are effective enough that I know who you are without you wasting thousands of words in the blogosphere like me. I remember every time you have slammed for thinking like an idiot and applauded me for somewhat making sense. sorry ‘bout calling you efrim. just kind of used to disagreeing with efrim lately. as for the frenchy thing, you are right. just could not resist the opportunity to dig at Thorman. you threw up an alley loop and could not resist the dunk.
By Goat Horns
June 5, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
Salty’s got a gun and he ain’t afraid to use it!!!
By SRF
June 5, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
Eric - how about this - We do not seem to do as good of a job as the Mets do at beating NL East opponents. They have a mental block against us and we have a mental block against others. The difference also can be that they will be willing to pay big money for a big name for the stretch run. New Braves Owners ? Probably not. Different financial league at least.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH, I meant to respond to your post about that the other night. Yes I do; started when I was 13 (1986). Back when even crappy bands had great guitarists; many influences.
N8, knowing how much Tate was always into irony, I imagine that was quite an event. Great band, and “Mindcrime” still never gets old if you’re drunk enough. Still makes me think poorly about an ex who’s probably married with three kids by now (for that matter, they’re probably going to Britney Spears concerts as well). I’m getting old. Does it get worse, older people? :-)
Jimmy Smith, have no fear; my hands are a little shakier than they used to be but I still got you covered on a good head shot from about 400 yards in. Try not to use those words instead, though; I prefer your company to that duty. And who would raise Baby Seal? And comfort Diane Lane? Think of all the ice cream Virginia Madsen would eat when she heard the news! Jimmy Smith must not join Aaron Giraffe, Ralph the Whale Shark, Don Ho and others…of course, we could have Mark davis provoke a tear-streaming eulogy with his soon-to-be-award-winning prose. Oops; cat out of the bag?
By parks
June 5, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I don’t think their is any chance we see Salty play 1B after catching. Maybe I’ll be wrong
By Lew
June 5, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
Nathan-Your words come off your fingertips? I always thought you talked out of your-well, I couldn’t resist, but I AM trying to be kinder and gentler.
By ChampDawg
June 5, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
Too bad about Chipper. The Braves could do ok without him if the pitching were any better. With Chipper out and the rotation not all that sharp, it doesn’t look good. But, as usual, Cox and Scherholz will fart around until it’s too late. Chipper is out, Andruw is still batting 230 or less, McCann is struggling and so is Thorman, and the pitching rotation is shaky. This team cannot compete unless changes are made. THose losses to the Phils and Nats made a “realist” out of me.
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this
Parks
*”N8, you implied that we should go with the hot hand.”
I gotcha. My bad. I meant over Thorman. Yet at the same time, giving McCann at least a day off through the rotation, with Salty behind the plate.
Would Salty’s occasional brain farts at 1B cost us a game or two along the way? More than likely.
But the way I see it, is Thorman certainly isn’t a Gold Glover over there. So it’s different than LaRoche, or Andruw for that matter, that when the bat is cool, the glove may help save a game.
Thorman is a servicable 1B defensively, and right now he is NOT hitting. Salty should play. If Thorman is that much better than him at the bag, bring him in for late defense.
But temorarily (if McCann is hurt), Salty should play everyday behind the plate, until McCann is healthy. If McCann IS healthy and just slumping, than that’s up to Bobby as to how long he let’s the hot hand sit on the bench.
Essentially, what I’m getting at, is that Salty should be starting 4 out of 5 games until he proves he’s not capable of helping, at that point he should be sent back down. One can’t expect a rookie to perform off the bench. He’s either good enough to start, or he’s not, thus needing more training in the minors to be READY to start next year, or later this year. Besides, he’s a switch hitter, so it’s not like he needs to be platooned anywhere. Just give him 2 starts every 5 games at 1B, and 2 starts behind the plate. Then when Mccann shows he’s healthy and can handle it, give Salty 3 starts at 1B and 1 behind the plate. THEN when another month goes by and Thorman is STILL batting around .200, then give Salty ALL the starts at 1B. By this time, his defense should be improved.
Not my call. That’s why Bobby’s “the best”, I guess.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this
listening to WFAN right now. It is hilarious listening to Yankees fans go off the deep end.
By Carroll Rogers
June 5, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
thanks for playing….the braves just sent buddy carlyle back down to richmond after Game 1. this after he pitched seven one-hit innings to collect his second major league win, and first in 8 years. ….Cox said with the doubleheader and with Smoltz starting the second game on an iffy shoulder, he wanted to have an extra pitcher in for Game 2 if necessary. So they called up Blane Boyer from Richmond. boyer found out at 12:30 today and flew here from Richmond. He says his oblique is fine and he’s ready to go.
By Coach
June 5, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
Chipper out for another 10-15 days ? Sorry to be a wet blanket right after a win but our playoff chances just went from 50/50 to one in three. Chipper is an integral part of the offense hitting in the three hole as a switch hitter , then when you take into consideration the upcoming interleague schedule and not knowing what to expect from Cormier , it looks like a mountain to climb. I’m not saying it can’t be done , but it looks like tough sledding from here on out for a team struggling to score runs.
By Patrick
June 5, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
Blaine Boyer just got the call!!!
Buddy Caryle just got optioned back to AAA. Feel bad for him after the way he pitched today….
But excited that we have another stud in the bullpen now!
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this
All this talk about this team not being up to whatever is a little 1 deminsional. Of all the faults we have, of all the .500 ball we’ve been playing, we’re only 3.5 back from the Mets. Sometimes these posts read like we’re 15 games out and falling fast. We still have our mid summer fire to catch. We did it last year even though we stunk. I think we can do it this year. We’ve about got our bench straightened out. We’ve about got our pitching to a sustainable level (it could certainly improve but it isn’t as bad as last season). We just have to stand ground against the best teams in the majors over the next few weeks. If we can go .500 or better through this interleague schedule we’ll be able to handle everything else.
The Twins, Indians, Red Sox and Tigers is going to be a tough two weeks. It’d be nice if our schedule were as simple as the Mets, but it isn’t. We must handle the best to get to the top. At least we’ll be ready for the post season.
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this
Grinch, its cool, dude. Nice to see someone else who likes 80’s bands (or, more often 80’s guitarists). I’ll not mention their names for DOB’s sake.
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
I’m still taken by IJ Rosenberg’s claim that Andruw will sign with the Braves in the coming weeks. I don’t know that is true, and DOB says he knows nothing about it, but IJ doesn’t blow smoke.
If the Braves do NOT sign Andruw before free agency, then he is surely gone because we can’t compete with fat wallets. In a pervserse way, I hope they don’t sign him because that would eat up money needed to obtain some quality pitching. And that could mean a trade of Salty, which IMHO would be a catastrophe.
Braveheart, my friend, all’s well.
By N8...Don't shoot the messenger.
June 5, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this
Parks
“How do we know when his “injury” is over? He says its fine and their is no more bruising or anything.”
Yeah. And boxers get mad when the ref stops a fight too, don’t they? How about Reitsma last year? Did he let the Braves know he was hurt? What about young Blaine Boyer? He was just FINE after last spring, wasn’t he?
Brian McCann is a gamer. A gamer that just signed a HUGE contract for a anybody, much less a young guy with arbitration years left. Do you REALLY think he’s coming out of the game, witch Chipper not being in there and Andruw trying his best to make people wish Oddibe McDowell was at the plate instead.??
Common sense, says that a guy who hit .333, 24 HR and 93 RBI last year, that is on pace for for 10 HR and about 80 RBI, while hitting around .287 is not feeling his best.
That or we just ridiculously overpaid for a guy that is gonna give us stats that Johnny Estrada could’ve given us.
Which do you think it is?
Smoltz gets it. He felt a tweak, and he WALKED OFF THE MOUND, before Porter even got out there to look at him. If you are too hurt to do your job (like is expected and needed of you)…..take a break.
I’m not saying DL him. I’m saying, give him a couple more days off a week, while Salty is hot.
Lew
You should see me type with my backside. It looks something like this:
32t4eeee24w3rt[2w[]4MN CVKH02431Q870
Hey. That actually worked. Not sure what it means though.
By Paul Hamilton
June 5, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this
You know I keep hearing some of you point out how much the Braves are struggling, no starting rotation, no 1B, problems all over the field, but there are only 5 teams with better records than the Bravos in all of MLB. They have played well against the good teams, and we are only 3.5 games behind the Mets. We have had quite a few injuries to key players, we have two young guys in the starting rotation, we have already cut 2 players in Wilson and Red. On top of that we have been calling up our young studs from the minors to fill in and play on a regular basis.
How about cutting the team some slack. I think they have been doing fairly well considering all that has been going on. The Braves have a great team, how can the Braves not be considered a contender? The Mets will be who we play in the postseason, not the nationals or marlins. We have played pretty good baseball against them, with good pitching and hitting. I don’t see how many people can write this team off this early in the season.
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this
Salty’s got a gun… Salty’s got a gun… Ain’t no team goin’ to run… etc.
Geaux Braves!!
By Bill
June 5, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this
That’s a bummer. Pitch a great game and then sent down. I think they won’t him to pitch every fifth day and if Cormeia falters, he will be back. Boyer will be a plus for the pen.
By Gil in Mechanicsville
June 5, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this
Duh…. did not see that coming. I’ll bet Buddy did not either. Oh well, don’t think he will be back in Richmond long. Ten days and then Cormier will be back.
Blain has been decent for Richmond, not spectacular. Let’s hope John gives us a good effort tonight.
By parks
June 5, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this
Or N8 it could mean he was in a SLUMP!. Yes N8, it can happen to the best of them. Yes N8 Mccann is a great player. Yes N8 it is possible for a great young player to go in a slump. Or wait, common sense must not let you think that a slump (even a long one) can happen. More likely what happened was when he was hurt, he tweaked he swing, which got him in bad habbits. He will be fine
By parks
June 5, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
Paul Hamilton, don’t waste your breath. This blog is all about the world is coming to a end posts. I do agree with you however.
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
What is the fun in that Paul Hamilton?
By Bob, Journalist
June 5, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this
Blog Irregular Cato … conjures up images of Sir Authur’s rag tag group of dirty faces … of course, at our age a laxative might be the more common of the images.
I understand Buddy’s been sent back down following today’s performance … that’s timely positive reinforcement of the first order.
We don’t get Sports South and I missed most of the WGST broadcast … why was Kelley not playing? He seems to be getting an increasing amount of time off lately, as does Matt … maybe Bobby knows something, playing Scott instead of Matt … he got a hit and his average is now up to .222 … Andruw had best take notice!
Anyone seen Orr’s private picture collection?
Speaking of pictures, I recently saw a remarkable sports movie … Invincible about Eagle Vince Papale of South Philly.
Remarkable in that it was a movie about South Philly that didn’t include an abundance of filth and vulgarities … having lived in Valley Forge during the time the film was set helped me appreciate the movie all the more … South Philly was/is a place surrounded on all sides by the United States … Kudos!
By Gil in Mechanicsville
June 5, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this
Excuse me….. didn’t McCann go 3 for 4 last night? Wow, short memories in this group.
It was poor defense that cost us the game Monday, the offense was fine. When you score 4 runs you are suppose to win.
And yes, to read the blog you would think we are the Nationals. Oh woe is us….. Give it a rest guys, no one else cares about our problems, they have their own.
You folks are some of the most negative people I have been around. Think I will take a break from the blog for a while before I feel the need to hang myself.
By Jeff321
June 5, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this
Does Pete Orr not know how to bunt? Buddy Carlyle came up after him and advanced the runner.. This “neverhasbeen” needs to be traded or forced out of the organization! SHEESH!
By Steve McP
June 5, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this
Hey peopel, on a rare trip to Atlanta as I can get three games for 1 night in an hotel. Good game today but disappointing that the turnout was so low - I think that part of this may be because they did not have tickets available on the web until a couple of weeks ago. I was also speaking to one or two of the staff and they were saying that they only knew about this game just over a week ago even though it was listed right after the original game was rained off - they also had only about 10% of the concessions open, because of the numbers. If the Braves need the money then they should have pushed this game better especially as it was a kids day and the first day after school let out.
Still great to see the hit by Salty, a really good flat drive that was never in doubt
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
Lineup tonight: 1)Johnson 2)Escobar 3)Renteria 4)McCann 5)Jones 6)Francoeur 7)Thorman 8)Diaz 9)Smoltz…
By parks
June 5, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
Gil, hopefully you are not lumping me in the we suck crowd. I firmly believe that we will make the playoffs this year with the team that we have.
By Caleb
June 5, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
Who here was hoping Pedro would blow his shoulder out today? Well, maybe the next time he throws.
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this
Hope Carlyle can keep his head up at Richmond. He has had two good outings minus 1 inning.
Think before the year is over, we will need him. I’m still not sold on the back three in the rotation. James has looked better. Davies has been better but he didn’t have to do much to be better than he was the first few outings. Cormier…. hopefully, he’ll be the Lance he was in the spring after the rough outing in Chicago.
Buddy…..be ready!
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this
One thing I keep thinking about (and it’s a positive, so please don’t hang yourself Gil), is how many games in a row has Francoeur started? I think it goes back to around July of 2005… So say about 50 games in 2005, 162 last year, and 58 this year - thats around 270 straight starts… Does anybody know the number for sure???
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this
Steve McP
Enjoy the games and your stay.
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this
And oh yeah, the guy we are facing tonight, Rick Vanden Hurk, has appeared in 4 games (started in 3) for the Marlins and so far has allowed 17! runs in 12 innings pitched!
By N8
June 5, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this
Parks
Has what Andruw done since last August, been just one long slump?
Maybe Mark Redman was just in a slump.
You say “he’ll be fine”. When? And what if he isn’t?
Gil
“Excuse me….. didn’t McCann go 3 for 4 last night? Wow, short memories in this group.”
Sure he did. Johnny Estrada used to go 3 for 4 a lot, too. No pop in his bat. He was a good “caller of games” as well.
How come he didn’t get a big 6 year contract? Because he never hit 24 HR and had 93 RBI.
“You folks are some of the most negative people I have been around. Think I will take a break from the blog for a while before I feel the need to hang myself.”
Sorry that me hoping Salty gets some more playing time (nothing NEGATIVE about that, is there?), makes you wanna go hang yourself.
Apparently you like 1B that hit below .220 and have as much range as a tree stump at 1B.
Kind of a “weird” situation we’re in isn’t it? Everybody is talking about Salty’s lack of experience and “not being ready” to play 1B at the big league level, yet none of those same people are talking about Thorman’s apparent lack of “readiness” to be an everyday first baseman. Hypocricy at it’s best. Yet I’ve seen at least 3 people in the last 24 hours mention Jeff Conine’s name. Puuuuuleeeeeeez. Jeff Conine would’ve been a nice fit for our bench and RH platoon at 1B……in 2000.
Sorry that “questioning” a player’s health, means I’m negative. I guess I would say I was being negative if I said:
Hey! Why does McCann’s power stroke SUCK all of the sudden?
THAT would be negative. Then again, THAT isn’t what I said.
Enjoy Thorman at 1B tonight everybody.
I wouldn’t expect anything less.
But
I’m just asking.
By Bob, Journalist
June 5, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this
Gill, when you score 4 runs, you are are most definitely supposed to win 100% of the time … that the other team scores three runs or less!
However, when the other team scores six, it’s best that you figure out a way to score seven or more … rather than looking to blame the pitching, bad luck, or the defence.
Ours is a good team but I sometimes wonder it they are deterministic enough in their approach to addressing the flow of the game … we allow ourselves to be placed in a position to lose, when such could be avoided, more frequently that I would like; regardless of the outcome.
By Tyler
June 5, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
Can anybody explain why Salty is not at first tonight? Either play him or trade him, but don’t just give him a start here or there. A homer and a double and then the bench!?! Bulls*!
By Braveone
June 5, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
Buddy Carlyle most likely no longer a Brave. He has been optioned to Richmond after pitching 7 innings of 1-hit baseball today. He is out of options so he has to clear waivers. There is a very good chance he will get picked up by someone since so many teams are desperate for pitching. Why did the Braves have to option him after such a good start? Why not send Cormier down to get a few more starts in AAA? Cormier has options left so he could not be picked up by another team.
By DonCoburleone
June 5, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this
Braveone, are you sure thats true???
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this
Tyler, please never use “Salty” and “trade” in the same sentence. :)
By N8
June 5, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
Braveone
HOW DARE you question the great JS?
Dude. We don’t have pitching problems. We’re gonna make the playoffs, as we sit.
Lighten up, and stop bringing the mood down.
By parks
June 5, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
N8, now you just must be getting mad. Andruw Jones is a power hitter. Were you expecting hime to hit .300, LMAO. Yet from this comment, How come he didn’t get a big 6 year contract? Because he never hit 24 HR and had 93 RBI you would think that Andruw is having a better year offensively than Rentaria b/c Rent has 8 HR and 29 RBI’s and Druw has 9 HR’s and 38 RBI’s. Then you compare the Redman situation to Mccann? This is why I call your posts comedy.
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this
Smoltz tugged/stretched his shoulder several times in the first inning. Might not be a long outing.
By sheesh
June 5, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this
N8, baby, what are you smokin’ man? You want to bench McCann to play Saltalamacchia at catcher? And at the same time you want to bench Thorman to play Saltalamacchia at first? So unless they can clone Saltalamacchia, that means that either McCann or Thorman (or some other catcher & first baseman — who??) will still be in the lineup. Not sure how you see that as solving any problems.
You clearly have no clue about managing a team or a lineup. First, Salty is an absolute butcher at first. In less than 2 innings on Sunday he proved that. I don’t want any player playing any infield position where every ground ball hit to him is going to be an adventure. He would cost the team more than a few games if he played first in several games a week. Not to mention that catching is probably mentally the most difficult non-pitching position, so a rookie catcher should not be asked to learn a new position at the major league level. That would be a desperate move.
Now the main reason your “plan” is, well, stupid, is because other than Chipper, McCann is the best pure hitter on the team. How will removing your best hitter not on the DL from the lineup help?? Maybe he is still hurting from his injuries (who amongst fans really knows?), but there is a big difference between playing hurt when there is little or no risk of worsening the injury versus playing with an injury where there is a moderate-to-high risk of the next sudden move putting you on the DL for the next month or two. Smoltz feared the latter, so he smartly tapped out; surely McCann and the Braves’ management staff view McCann’s injury as the former (if his performance is indeed injury-related and not just a slump). I would rather have a hitter of McCann’s caliber in the lineup at less than 100% than anyone else on the roster (except Chipper), including Salty.
N8, get a clue, man. I know you have watched a lot of baseball (I can tell from your comments), but you sure don’t know much about the playing the game.
By mr baseball
June 5, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this
I suppose if Bobby Cox isn’t smart enough to figure something out, most of the denizens here won’t be either. Where does it say that your backup catcher has to sit on the bench 5 games out of every 6. If McCann catches and Salty plays 1B (something Booby apparently isn’t ready for yet), and you need to pinch run for McCann in the 8th or 9th, there is no rule against moving Salty behind the plate and letting Thorman, Woodward, whoever plays 1B. How hard is that to grasp?
If Cox truly believes Salty is not ready to start at 1B, they may as well send him back to the minors. Playing once or twice a week isn’t going to cut it, and playing him more means playing McCann less, which is not a sound option.
Some of you who have decided Salty can’t play 1B at a major level yet are basing that decision on 2 whole innings. You guys saw his bobble and errant throw. Some of us saw the diving stop he made that Thorman is incapable of matching. Thorman is a below average defender and right now is VERY below average offensively for a 1B. Without Chipper we need Salty’s bat in the lineup. Until he proves otherwise defensively, he should at least split time at 1B or be sent back to the minors.
It appears that very few here have any idea of the concept of utility infielder. They don’t hit .300 or smash 20 homers. They are what they are, and Woodward is perfectly competent in that role. Orr maybe not, but would you rather have a promising rookie getting a handful of at bats each week. All position players are not starters, and it’s better to have veterans deep on the bench than rookies.
As for the geniuses who thought Orr should have bunted with a runner on 2nd and no outs, no offense, but it helps to know something about baseball before displaying your ignorance of the sport. Advancing a runner to 3rd with the pitcher coming up is, bluntly, STUPID AND POINTLESS. Orr’s goal in that situation is to get a hit or walk, not to advance the runner, which accomplishes next to nothing.
Lots of love shown Carlyle. Bullpen hasn’t exactly been over-taxed the last few days. If they were going to send him down, another bat would have been more helpful. About what we’ve dome to expect from GM John “we don’t need no stinking first baseman” Schuerholz.
By Goat Horns
June 5, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
I for one don’t want to keep Escobar around as a utility infielder when Chipper comes back.
I would like to see him stay at third and Chipper move to first base.
If Chipper refuses to move I would like to see Escobar playing first base on a regular basis. I think he would be a dynamite first baseman. Next year (or the year after) we can move him to short or third when an opening comes up. He is a player and we need to keep him in the lineup!!
By N8
June 5, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this
parks
I don’t get mad. It’s all good.
I will agree with you though, about my Redman comment. That was SUPPOSED to be comedy.
As for the Renteria/Jones comment. No way dude. To me it’s all relative to:
a) What position they play.
and
b) What is expected of that player (based on track record)
Sure. AJ’s numbers are better than Renteria’s. But even I can see that Renteria is in much more control of his bat when he’s at the plate.
I’m not dumb enough, nor do I think you are, to assume that if Renteria would have been batting in the 4-hole since opening day, his RBI total would be KILLING Andruw’s.
It’s simply amazing that Renteria has as many RBI as he does, with the pitcher and the pathetic guys we’ve had in the 8-hole, ahead of him in the lineup. Not to mention a testament to how “productive” (in both knocking in and scoring runs), KJ has been in the leadoff role.
OVERALL, Renteria has been the best, most consistant Brave (offensively), all year. PERIOD.
“Andruw Jones is a power hitter. Were you expecting hime to hit .300, LMAO.”
Nope. Just expected him in a walk year (and since he’s taking up almost 20 percent of our payroll), to COME CLOSE to his numbers as the previous two years.
I didn’t expect him to break Barroid’s single season record in his walk year, but I didn’t expect him to hit .230 and be on pace, 1/3 of the way through the season, to have his LEAST ammount of HR’s since his first full season in the bigs, back in 1997.
Or is that too negative for you, Gil?
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this
I hope that’s not true about Buddy; he deserves better treatment than that.
Is it just me or does Miguel Cabrerra look like a Greg Gumbel Cabbage Patch Kid?
By parks
June 5, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this
Regardless N8, I think you are seriously overestimating the Mccann situation. I guess we will agree to disagree. Lets get this win!
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Carlyle could’ve spent the first 2 months of the season in the minors if he was out of options. I don’t understand options that well, but I’m pretty sure Carlyle is still the Braves’ property.
By Carroll Rogers
June 5, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
BraveOne. i’ve been told Buddy Carlyle is NOT out of options, by the Braves. He will not have to clear waivers. He will be optioned to Richmond.
By Richard Cory
June 5, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
Grinch—yes.
By ncscoots
June 5, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this
jjs, hate me if you must, but I now plan to start using “jeepers” a lot. It just seems a perfect complement to “Yikes!” and “Holy Cornelia!”.
mr b, in his own inimitable patronizing and condescending way :-), did actually hit on a good point. Kids such as Saltalamacchia and Escobar are used to playing every day, 4 AB a game, not 1 AB every 4 games. Coming off the bench to pinch-hit and play a utility role is different…takes different preparation, a different mindset. Nobody argues that these guys are not probably better players than the current bench, but there’s probably a reason you don’t see many stud prospects coming up to ride pine, better skills notwithstanding: lesser-skilled players may indeed be better suited to coming off the bench.
By N8
June 5, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this
sheesh
“N8, baby, what are you smokin’ man? You want to bench McCann to play Saltalamacchia at catcher? And at the same time you want to bench Thorman to play Saltalamacchia at first?”
I suggest you READ before posting a smartarse response to me or anybody.
I’ll give you a little snipit from an earlier post of mine, which you apparently DIDN’T read.
*”Just give him (Salty) 2 starts every 5 games at 1B, and 2 starts behind the plate. Then when Mccann shows he’s healthy and can handle it, give Salty 3 starts at 1B and 1 behind the plate. THEN when another month goes by and Thorman is STILL batting around .200, then give Salty ALL the starts at 1B.
While Salty may have been a “butcher” in his first 2 innings SINCE HIGH SCHOOL at 1B. Thorman has been a butcher at the plate for THE LAST 33 GAMES.
Tell me that Salty’s glove at 1B would cost us as many games, as Thorman’s bat has in the last month.
Because without the runners thrown out trying to steal and his (Salty) go-ahead 2-Run HR today, I’d be willing to bet my left maplenut that we DON’T win that game today.
So that’s 1 game (out of 7 starts) that Salty has single handedly won for us. How many has Thorman had in the last month? I’d probably say 1. The 2 homer 5 RBI game. Which puts the rest of his numbers in perspective, doesn’t it?
But you can continue having Thorman and Woodward at 1B, just so long as you want the 7-9 spots in the order to bat a collective .200 or so.
Be my guest.
By fastasballs
June 5, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
There is no way Carlyle is out of options. He just had the best performance from a 5th starter all year.
By N8
June 5, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this
Nice post Mr. Baseball. You seem to get it.
By N8
June 5, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone
“And oh yeah, the guy we are facing tonight, Rick Vanden Hurk, has appeared in 4 games (started in 3) for the Marlins and so far has allowed 17! runs in 12 innings pitched!”
I don’t mean to pick on you. But, did you forget what team he was facing tonight? LOL! I was gonna post this smart-a$$ comment the second I saw you post it, but I didn’t wanna be too “negative”.
Sorry dude. You left yourself WIDE OPEN on this one.
So far: 4 IP….. 0 HITS ALLOWED.
YIKES!
By mark
June 5, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this
It’s time to get rid of Chipper. He is a great player but he gets hurt too much.
By ernesto
June 5, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
Why do we keep making no name pitchers with nose-bleed era’s look like Cy Vanden Whatever his name is.
Let’s get some runs.
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
N8, I believe that IF the Braves staff (you know, the ones on the field working him out at 1B every day) thought Salty was ready to play 1B, they’d play him at least some at 1B.
Maybe they don’t consider him competent to play the position at this point, and to throw him out there to embarrass himself and hurt the team would not be the right thing to do. Maybe?
How is it that you’re so sure he’s ready to play 1B when Cox obviously isn’t?
I think right now he’s a backup catcher - and the Braves have determined they need all the offense they can get, since CJ is out and no one is hitting for much power.
So they’re going with Salty rather than Pena. Yes, it’s costing Salty some development time, but the main goal is to win ballgames.
I doubt Pena hits a game-winning home run in game 1 today.
By F Y I
June 5, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
I seem to remember it said that Lou Gehrig was xrayed after he got sick.It was found he had played with multiple fractures of bones in his hands.He must have been very tough and had great determination to play.
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
Why the He!! would you trade Chipper? He’s our best hitter and, along with Smoltz, the face of our franchise. The next person who suggests this should be put out of their misery by our good friend Grinch.
By brent a.
June 5, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this
Stat on SportSouth:
Braves’ Left-fielders since April 30
MLB Rank
1st in batting average 1st in OBP 5th in slugging percentage
But, yes, Langerhans is hitting .244 since he was traded
By Caleb
June 5, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
Can we please get a freaking hit!?!?!?!
By mr baseball
June 5, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
ncscoots: Thank you for your perceptive response. Patronizing and condescending are probably generous for some of my rants. Not pointed at all here, just the occasional clueless who probably call Skip to have the infield fly rule explained. Will try to be kindler and gentler in the future, but wouldn’t be prudent.
If Salty is not going to play 1B, I resume my futile request for the consideration of the immortal Ty Wigginton, rather than the geriatric Conine. After his showing tonight, maybe Carlyle would pique the D-Rays interest. Probably not.
By Jim
June 5, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
Will somebody please inform the Braves that this is Vanden Hurt out there pitching against them — not Oliver Perez!!!!
By Braveone
June 5, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
Carroll - That’s super news on Carlyle. I had heard that he was out of options. He may be back up soon if Cormier has another bad start & needs to go back down to get back to where he was in the Spring.
By mark
June 5, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
I don’t know Steve, I mean the man might be the face of our franchise and he might even be a hall of famer but he is always hurt. I can’t really say he is our best hitter because of Renteria and McCann. Even if he is, he’s no good to us on the DL.
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
era = 12.75. No-no through 5. Go figure.
By fastasballs
June 5, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
Is the offense hibernating?
So far in 14 innings today they have scored in one of them.
By N8
June 5, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this
MBATL
Why are you so willing to “stand by” and be content with Thorman’s bat, when there is a kid who obviously has more patience (and is a switch hitter), on the roster just sitting.
You’re right about Bobby though. He’s NEVER made a bad choice about who plays, who starts, much less who is on the 25 man roster.
You know, like CONTINUING to throw Remlinger out there against lefties when he CLEARLY was more effective against righties, and downright HORRIBLE against lefites. That Bobby sure knows it all, doesn’t he? I mean, after all, Pete Orr hasn’t been a WASTE of roster space for two years now, has he? Cox must know somthing we don’t. Like that time he brought in Charlie Leibrandt to face Kirby Puckett with the 1991 World Series on the line, good call Bobby.
Maybe Orr gives him good back scratches on road trips.
Bobby Cox is the manager of the Atlanta Braves, ultimately the choice of who plays and when is his. NOTHING that I (nor anybody) can do about it.
But in no way, shape or form do I have to LIKE what lineup he puts out there.
Or am I wrong about that?
Actually on an incredibly ironic note:
Funny how for the last 2 days EVERYBODY and their dog was simply hoping for a split in the double header today. A split, because we’ll SURELY win with Smoltz on the mound, but everybody was hoping we didn’t get our butts kicked with Buddy on the mound. Who woulda thunk it.
Now THAT is comedy parks.
By ncscoots
June 5, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this
Grinch, just so you know (from one of the “older” folks, LOL), it ain’t the hands, buddy, it’s the eyes. I’m still steady as a rock, but there aren’t enough clicks on the scope for me anymore :-) I would have to get up close and personal for some of that interpersonal conflict resolution, ha!
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this
True, he’s no good to anyone on the DL, but I’d rather have him playing 115 games for us than playing 115 gamesfor someone else. When he’s in the, uh, lineup we’re a much better team then we are now. I just don’t see how we can possibly let him go. Thankfully, it will never happen.
By N8
June 5, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this
brent a.
“But, yes, Langerhans is hitting .244 since he was traded”
Is that comment, directed at my earlier post?
By IlliniBrave
June 5, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this
What we are seeing here is a really young group of hitters, going up there and being really aggressive and hacking away at the plate. A lot of short counts and even first pitches.
But I think we have to remind ourselves just how young this team is. With the exception of Edgar and Andruw, none of these guys has even completed a full two years in the majors. Even B-Mac and Frenchie, who we like to think of as veterans, are only a year and a half away from their mid-season call-ups.
This is a really really young team. And the reality is that while we are probably looking at a playoff-caliber roster, it’s for the 2009 or 2010 playoffs, not 2007. We all need to be patient and appreicate the young talent we have.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
Seriously, if the Braves get no-hit by this guy, I am done watching them. And save your time as I already know that you don’t care, I am a fair weather fan, blah, blah, blah…
Losing to the guy is embarrassing enough, but to get no-hit by him is an absolute DISGRACE
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
This is retarded. I can’t believe we can’t hit this clown. We should clobber him. Get some stinking hits Bravos!
By ernesto
June 5, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
Pete Orr suhuhuhuhuhuhucks.
By Braveone
June 5, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
Why in the world did Bobby pinch-hit Smoltz for freaking Pete Orr? Smoltz had only thrown 73 pitches & had retired 8 in a row.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this
Well, this game is over…
DISGRACEFUL
By ncscoots
June 5, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this
mr b, I feel the pain, my friend, and I agree that sometimes things just make you want to throw some gas about lip-high. It’s all good, bro. Get mad, young man, and rant as you will, LOL!
Fact is, you and I agree on many points of discussion (a scary amount, frankly), and that we opine those points in different styles means not a whit.
Besides, we both know the blog would be MUCH better off if everyone would just agree that we’re always right, LOL!
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this
Two observations:
Why do you bring Moylan back in tonight when he pitched 2 innings last night? Isn’t that just asking for it? Thought Boyer was here.
And…. I’m really glad the Braves aren’t in any kind of offensive slump. If they were, I would be worried right now.
By N8
June 5, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
So much for the “new and improved” Peter Moylan.
Alright Braves fans.
Similar to the Randy Johnson perfect game a few years ago. At what point do you stop rooting for the Braves to win the game, and start rooting for the kid with an ERA over 12.00 coming into the game, to get a no-hitter?
By Berigan
June 5, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this
Was there no way to keep Carlyle on the club after a 1 hit 7 inning game??? I mean, yeah Cormier should have another start, but knowing Bobby Cormier would get several starts if healthy. Just seems stupid to send back a guy, like mentioned above had the best start by a 5th starter all year, heck it might have been the best start by ANY braves starter this year!
By mark
June 5, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this
I am just looking at this from a financial standpoint. I mean with our limited payroll, we may need to get rid of him while we can still get something for him. He takes up a huge percentage of our payroll. Chipper may need to retire, because he gets injuries all over his body. Maybe we can trade Chipper and get another pitcher or something.
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this
Illinibrave - very nice post. I agree, and that’s why I have argued vociferously against trading away the likes of Salty and other strong potentials.
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
No idea why Cox hits Orr for Smoltz…unless Smoltz isn’t feeling right. God, Pete Orr is an AUTOMATIC out.
By F Y I
June 5, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul I know you don’t mean it that way,but to me using the word retard sounds almost as bad as the n word.VIVA LA ESCOBAR!!!!
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
Hey, now! I am no longer just an indescriminate assassin (bullets ain’t free, ya know)…at least pass the hat around the blog to pay for ammo and legal bills if you’re gonna have me knockin’ folks off. Scoots, I have resorted to glasses, myself. If it makes you feel any better my dad finally got his lenses replaced in both eyes about a month ago and is back to drivin’ nails again with his new AR-15 (a 7.62 mm version; .308 is the preferred caliber of Grinches).
Anyone else notice when Orr was batting a little while ago they cut to Bobby and he was bending over and touching his toes? I’ll leave that to speculation…
By N8
June 5, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
Yeah.
We wouldn’t wanna have these “kids” up on the roster, much less give them playing time.
Woodward and Orr are just fine.
.14 more points off of Thorman’s average and he officially will make Orr, the SECOND worst hitter on the team.
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
That’s how well we are hitting. Last night, Escobar was the offense, he and a by the way homer by Edgar.
Today, homers by two bench warmers win the game.
Now, the new kid finally breaks up the no-hitter.
Still not worried though. Our offense is not slumping.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
N8,
“At what point do you stop rooting for the Braves to win the game, and start rooting for the kid with an ERA over 12.00 coming into the game, to get a no-hitter?”
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!!
By mark
June 5, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
Escobar a decent player, watch out Chipper!
By mark
June 5, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
Escobar a decent player, watch out Chipper!
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
Chipper does seem to be better suited for a DH role at this point in his career. Dude can’t stay on the field. Of course, his latest freak injury has nothing to do with him playing the field. I feel for the guy…had so many years of staying healthy, but once the injury bug bit…it has been the polar opposite.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
Scoots; age isn’t what makes my hands shake. C’mon, bats!
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
Trading Chipper would be an extraordinarily disloyal move by an organization that Chipper has bent over backwards for. Anyone remember when Chipper re-structured his contract to free up more $$ for the team? Or when he was MVP? Or when he singlehandedly killed the Mets? Or that he is hitting .300 with 12 homers this year? He’s not gonna be on the DL the entire year, people! There are still 2-4 good years left in the ‘ol hoss, and I suggest that we all be patient and let Chipper get healthy again before we pass judgment.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
okay, we need a big hit…a hit scores 2 and gets us right back in the game despite our offensive ineptitude…
By fastasballs
June 5, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
Escobar brings the excitement, flair & energy this team needs.
Maybe Andruw & his crooked bat takes one yard.
By N8
June 5, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this
Why does this Andruw AB have double play written ALL over it.
Oh, ooops. My bad. One has to make CONTACT to hit into a double play.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this
Good patience by Andruw…good approach…great AB…
Son of a…
By Berigan
June 5, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this
JasonInMaine, You seem pretty calm, cool and collected most of the time, come on man! It wasn’t like it was Mark Redman pitching the No no against us, if he threw one against us, then you, me and every brave fan would revolt! ;)
Are the Braves fans even paying attention at the game? No round of applause for the Marlins pitcher?
By parks
June 5, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
people use your freakin brains! they do not want to over extend Smoltz. Again he just came off a injury. Calm down people
By ncscoots
June 5, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
Grinch, that right about your dad? Darn fine biscuits, I say. Sounds as if he and I might be squares for a small pistol match someday…he a Scotch or bourbon man?
By JJMB
June 5, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
Remember that stupid grin Andruw would have? No matter how bad he f-ed up? I don’t see it anymore.
AJ is really stinking it up this year.
By fastasballs
June 5, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this
Geezzz, not even one freaking run after 2 on & none out.
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this
Andruw hit one 400 feet - - 200 feet straight up and 200 feet straight down.
By BravesDave
June 5, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this
Any pitcher who throws Jeff Francouer anything other than a fastball needs his head examined. I don’t care if it is 92 MPH or 98 MPH, this guy cannot hit a fastball if his life depended on it. Nice rally there by McCann, Andruw, and Francouer. The only shocking part was that McCann didn’t hit a double play grounder to second.
By ditcher
June 5, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
just watching the game and thinking that AJ and JF look like Dale Murphy… Too agressive and can’t hit breaking balls. We can’t beat FLA or WASH. Same old stuff
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this
Our pen is looking great tonight too…
By Yunel Jones
June 5, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this
Pi$$ on the fire and call in the dogs boys, this one’s over.
On the other hand, maybe we’ll score a couple of runs so we won’t be worried about being in an offensive slump.
That would make me feel better.
By rehydration engineer
June 5, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
who couldnt see this coming _ villareal giving up runs & sucking
By BravesDave
June 5, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
This team sucks. Absolutely sucks. I think the Marlins and the Nationals have every one of their wins against this team. The back end of the bullpen never fails to extend the opposition’s lead. The hitters have patience or strategy to have good at-bats. It is no wonder that our only hot hitter right now is a rookie that major league pitchers do not have a book on right now. McCann is giving the Braves nothing offensively and is costing the Braves runs on defense. When do we start questioning McCann like we have been questioning Andruw? When does Thorman get some much needed bench time? That 7-1 start was one heck of a mirage.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
Berigan,
Actually, didn’t Vanden Hurk have a higher ERA than Redman coming in? Redman’s is11.63 and Vanden Hurk’s was 12.75!!!
By eric the elder
June 5, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Agree BravesDave. The only thing I would add is that the pitch should be shoulder high. Francoeur’s bat has become r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w.
By JJMB
June 5, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Another great outing by Smoltz, thrown in the dustbin of time AGAIN.
One slim chance for the playoffs: Chipper heals quickly.
(excuse me, I have to go to the head, cough, cough).
By Berigan
June 5, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
Benitez is in, don’t give up hope yet!!!!!!!
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
Scoots, I expect he’d be delighted to. While unlike myself he doesn’t enjoy sports in general, he’s mighty fond of shooting; a most excellent fellow. As for preferred drink, seems he’s on Scotch at the moment though he changes up occasionally.
Time for some offense!
By Bad Salty
June 5, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this
Bad Salty! Bad! Bad!
You played a good game and hit a game winner in the first game. Now, McCann feels pressured and so does Thor. So the result is neither is hitting in the second game.
Salty, you HAVE TO go!
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
N8, you’re answering a question about Salty by bringing up Remlinger and Liebrandt? Oh, the point being that you know the Braves’ personnel, and baseball strategy, better than Bobby. I’m not gonna get into debating Cox… knock yourself out.
I already gave you my opinion on Salty at 1B… no need to restate it.
I think Thorman will improve, but I’m not opposed to bringing in a RH bat if one’s available at a decent price. I think it’s a little early, and I don’t think we have many trading chips this year, so we need to be careful what we go after. Tampa wants ML-ready pitching (though I’ve never heard that Wiggington was on the block, maybe he is), and I can’t really see where we have any to spare.
I think Chipper will be back, hopefully sooner rather than later; AJ will have a good 2nd half; McCann will heat up; Thorman will improve (maybe not dramatically, but some).
And sooner or later the Braves will remember how to score at home.
I know that’s not your view of things. Oh well!
By Ron
June 5, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
JasoninMaine, Earlier you said you wonder how many times we had leadoff doubles without scoring, well their was another one in the bottom of the 7th!!! Why am I not surprised that we are struggling against the Marlins? parks, totally agree with your 9:22 post!!! I was thinking 6 innings at the most!!!
By Rally Monkey
June 5, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Is this the “too little, too late” obligatory rally for the Braves?
By N8
June 5, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this
Awesome comback at 9:36 Jason.
Don’t you just love when the numbers back you up?
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this
Well, to try and put a positive spin on this atrocious showing…
The Braves were only two clutch hits from having a tied game. They have had runners on 2nd & 3rd the last two innings…
By Dead Monkey
June 5, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this
Rally Monkey, this is a dead monkey blog. The rally monkey blog is somewhere else. Thank you.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this
N8,
I am so disappointed in tonight’s game that I don’t even love my wife right now (:
Regards,
Jason
By Berigan
June 5, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
JasonInMaine, Oh sure, bring up the fact Vanden Hurk had a higher ERA than Redman! ;) This will make you feel better. Vanden Hurk had a 54.00 ERA against the braves before tonight’s game!
Actually, he his first start wasn’t too bad, but then he really tanked fast. Vanden Hurk just turned 22 a week or so ago, so I’m betting he will have a slightly better career than Dedman! Glad we were able to him out. Sigh.
By Rally Monkey
June 5, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this
BRAVES LIVE after the game on SS. If this keeps up, they’ll have to change the name to BRAVES DEAD.
By rehydration engineer
June 5, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this
too many outs on first pitch- braves hitters showing no patience at the plate
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
June 5, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
DOB or Carroll
Any indication of how long the Braves will keep 13 pitchers on the roster?
By Rally Monkey
June 5, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this
Here comes Thor! Here comes Thor! He’s gonna smash it!
OR maybe not.
By N8
June 5, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this
“N8, you’re answering a question about Salty by bringing up Remlinger and Liebrandt?”
How about something CONSIDERABLY more recent than that? Buddy Carlysle pitches 7 innings of 1 hit, 1 run ball, and is IMMEDIATELY sent back down. I wonder if his hair had a chance to dry after his shower?
More power to you MBATL. I hope it works out for you (and all of us).
I’m going to junkyard later in the week. Do you mind if I borrow your rose-colored glasses, as to “trick” myself into thinking I’m in the Bahamas?
“I think Chipper will be back, hopefully sooner rather than later; AJ will have a good 2nd half; McCann will heat up; Thorman will improve (maybe not dramatically, but some).”
I commend your enthusiasm, and optomism.
But forgive me when I say I think you’re WRONG on all counts, other than McCann heating up. He eventually will. But will it be too little, too late.
“the point being that you know the Braves’ personnel, and baseball strategy”
Not sure I actually said that anywhere, did I? I do know that in games Salty has started (7), he has hit .344 with 2 HR and 5 RBI, in 29 AB’s.
Since May 9th (23 games), McCann and Thorman have COMBINED 3 HR and 23 RBI’s, in 171 AB’s.
So explain to me again why Bobby Cox has you convinced that Salty doesn’t deserve to play, other than not wanting to hurt anybody’s feelings?
After all, he’s only the MANAGER. One can’t reasonably expect him to do what’s best for the TEAM.
You forgot to add to your little rah-rah fantasy world, that you think Pete Orr’s gonna make the All-Star game.
By lilman916
June 5, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this
The Braves are a dead team, and have played like one for the last month. No clutch hitting, can’t play small ball, and not fundamentally sound (bunts to advance the runners, moving runners over, sac flies, etc.). Since April, how many two rbi do they have?
By joebrave
June 5, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
I said it before I’ll say it again,Somebody anybody preferrably T.P. should line this team up and Slap the $hit out of them,Slap em,Slap em until their jaws bleed,I have never seen such hardheaded sumbitches in my life!!!!Me fears that Andruw has infected the whole Team with his me first attitude…. and Mary Met,dude lay off the twinkies boy I won’t take your $hit tonight!!!!
By Tomahawkin' Again
June 5, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
I have found myself repeating over and over tonight “It’s a long season; it’s a marathon, not a sprint; once Chipper gets off the DL, we’ll be okay, etc…then McCann, Mr .223 (Andruw) and Mr .216 (Thorman) take a grand total of 3 pitches in making the last 3 outs of the game. We’re now 3-5 against the Marlins & 4-5 against the Nats so far. Not going to make it to October if that continues.
By Berigan
June 5, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
So…..will Salty be the starting catcher tomorrow, or will McCann start his 3rd game in 3 days, and a day game after a night game? And why the __ is this a 1:05 day game anywho?
Funny, even the broadcasters are saying Thorman and McCann are looking over their shoulders? He guys, there is a younger, faster, better(prettier?) version of you right behind you!!!! Boo! I joke, but it may just be a reason for their struggles. If we find out McCann has been hurt, and that is why his defense seems so-so of late, I know quite a few of us will not be happy campers!
Too bad we don’t have the DH in the NL.
By Tomahawkin' Again
June 5, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this
I have found myself repeating over and over tonight “It’s a long season; it’s a marathon, not a sprint; once Chipper gets off the DL, we’ll be okay, etc…then McCann, Mr .223 (Andruw) and Mr .216 (Thorman) take a grand total of 3 pitches in making the last 3 outs of the game. We’re now 3-5 against the Marlins & 4-5 against the Nats so far. Not going to make it to October if that continues.
By lilman916
June 5, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
Does comparing Redman’s and Vanden Hurk’s earned run averages mean that if Redman pitchers against the Braves, he will look like a CY Young candidate too?
By Caleb
June 5, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
That was just pathetic.
By Rally Monkey
June 5, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
How about this lineup?
Bob Uecker catching
Tito Francona at 1B
Felix Millan at 2nd
Sonny Jackson at short
Bring Clete back for 3rd
Outfield of Cito Gaston, Mike Lumm and Gary Geiger
They could probably scratch out a couple of runs off the Herk.
By Manny Met
June 5, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
Joebrave, thanks for inviting me out again tonight. I understand you are quite the fisherman. What is it like to pull a fish out of the water with a 50/50 chance it is smarter than you? In that case it can clean you and grill you and spit you out.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
Y’all, c’mon. You sound like Philly fans. There are way too many good hitters on our team in a slump at the same time now for us not to go on one of those patented Braves winning streaks that always come out of nowhere. It’s the same sort of thing every year, and it will be again. It may get worse before it gets better, but we’ll rip off 17 out of 24 at some point and be right back in it at the end. This team is WAY better than last years’, the only year we didn’t. Stop acting like you’re walking towards the gallows.
By A-villeRanger
June 5, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
Who’da thunk it ? the team loses the games Hudson and Smoltz start and a guy gets his only win in 8 years,then gets demoted.Tomahawkin 8-10 against the cellar fellers,that can’t be good.
By N8
June 5, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
Hey, MBATL (Robert you’re gonna like this too!)
Your’re gonna love this.
Bobby’s career numbers as a manager are:
2003 Wins & 1739 Losses. VERY respectable.
However, those who think he is the Master of the Universe, here’s a little “numbers” game for you.
WITHOUT Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine & John Smoltz in his rotation:
1150 Wins & 1078 Losses, in SLIGHTLY more than 14 seasons (with the shortened season in 1981 and taking over halfway through 1990), Averaging 82 Wins and 77 Losses. For a WHOPPING winning percentage of….516!! Wow. Impressive…..MOST Impressive.
HOWEVER
WITH Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all on his staff:
1053 Wins & 661 Losses in about 11 seaon (with the shortened 94-95 seasons), averaging 95 Wins and 60 losses. Ready for the winning percentage of…...614!!!
Yeah. He IS the best. No doubt about it.
By Rally Monkey
June 5, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
The scrub Braves with a triple A pitcher win their game facing a guy who’s been throwing pretty well.
The regular Braves lose their game facing Mr Meat and Smoltz on the mound.
Whats wrong with this picture?
By joebrave
June 5, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
This cumwad is here,Manny tell your wife I’m busy with your mom tonight!!Now go away turd bird before i kick your @ss!!!
By Meanie
June 5, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
Who…
Lives in a train station that smells like pee
Man-ny Wet Pants!
Silly and nutless and foolish is he!
Man-ny Wet Pants!
To meet Mike Piazza would be his first wish
Man-ny Wet Pants!
A fresh piece of cornhole is his favorite dish!
Man-ny Wet Pants!
Man-ny Wet Pants, Man-ny Wet Pants, Man-ny Wet Pants, Man-neeeeee Wet Paaaaaaaants!
By joebrave
June 5, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
Hey Mary met,Southpark is on go watch t.v. little boy before you get hurt!!!
By N8
June 5, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this
Grinch
“This team is WAY better than last years’, the only year we didn’t. Stop acting like you’re walking towards the gallows.”
If I’m not mistaking, we were about 4 games out of 1st place last year going into June as well. Maybe 2 or 3 more wins, but that’s it.
I’m not so sure as to WHY you think we’re better than last year.
Smoltz can’t go more than 6 innings because he’s hurt. At least last year he was trying to pitch 9 everytime out to help out.
Based on recent outings, Hudson isn’t THAT MUCH better than he was last year. He started hot, now he’s back to not so hot.
Chuck James is NOWHERE near what he could be counted on last year.
Davies is.
The fifth spot in the rotation just had it’s best performance of the year and the pitcher (Carlysle) got sent down after the game.
LaRoche was traded for one of the better closer/setup guys in the league who was a BIG part of our early season success. Gonzo is gone for the year, and I’m quite certain the Pirates aren’t gonna feel bad for us and give us LaRoche back.
Ironically Thorman is hitting about as putrid as LaRoche is, only thing is, he’s about 2/3 the defender that Roche was/is.
KJ is better than Giles. I’ll give you that.
Renteria is pretty much doing the exact same thing he did last year, at this time.
Unfortunately so is Chipper. Except we don’t have Betemit to fill in, because the guy we traded Betemit for is in Rehab. Though recently it looks like Escobar is possibly going to outplay what Betemit and Aybar both are capable of.
Salty is head and shoulders above Pratt for a backup catcher. PERIOD.
Diaz is the same. Willie Harris is light years ahead of Langerhans or any other option we threw out there last year.
Andruw is NOTHING close to what he was last year at the plate.
Francoeur has improved.
McCann has not.
So that’s 3 positions we’ve “improved” at. (LF-with Harris, RF, 2B), and 3 we’ve downgraded based on last year’s results (CF, C, 1B), and 2 that have essentially stayed the same (SS, 3B)
I’d venture to say it’s a wash.
As for the bullpen. Soriano and Wickman are obviously much better options than what we had through the first 1/3 of the season last year. But when your starters are so bad, it’s kinda hard to “use” your bullpen to your advantage, isn’t it? Remind anybody of when we had Smoltz in the pen, for the post-season?
By Rally Monkey
June 5, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
The teams that used to go on those 17 out of 24 streaks were teams that used to go on 6 and 8 game winning streaks a few times a year.
This team lacks focus, end of story. They have showed no indication that they are capable of going out 5 or 6 days in a row with enough intensity to start any kind of meaningful streak.
Bobby could afford to be patient with those teams. The mix was such that no matter what Bobby did, eventually someone would step up and do something positive. This team doesn’t have that type of focus, no center of gravity, no one to carry the load until the worm turns.
Who is going to make things happen? Andruw? Chipper? McCann? Francouer? McCann and Francouer are contributors (sometimes) not leaders. Andruw is Andruw. No sense holding your breath waiting for him to carry the team again like he did a couple of years ago. Poor old Chipper. He can’t lead by example because to do so, you have to be on the field which he isn’t.
This team IS NOT a playoff team right now. I don’t think they are just going to wake up tomorrow and turn into one either.
Could their fortunes change? Sure it could, but it isn’t going to happen with first base hitting around .200 and a catcher who is either still hurt or looking over his shoulder too much instead of looking ahead and worrying about his own game. It’s not going to happen just by thinking we’ll right the ship and go on a 17 out of 24 streak. We made that mistake last year and see where it got us?
By Kentavo
June 5, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
Grinch, the difference in those years is we had dependable starting pitching, which we do not have anymore. We probably would have made the wildcard with a healthy Hampton on the squad last year - even with the atrocious June - and he’d make a heck of a difference this year. Smoltz and Huddy are good, but they can’t win every game. Everybody else is a total crapshoot, from James to Davies to the 5th starter du jour. This team is not making the playoffs until a third, solid starting pitcher is added. Hopefully we don’t have to give up Salty or Escobar to get that guy.
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this
N8, God you’re a relentless little downer, aren’t you!:). I have never ranted about Cox being infallible. I’ve defended certain post-season moves that folks like to criticize, but am not about to get into that now.
His record and reputation among baseball people speak for themselves, for better or worse. My only point was that he probably has a little better idea of young Jared Saltalamacchia’s defensive abilities than you do, based on your having seen him play one (adventurous) inning.
But, since you did all that research: I’d say a .516 winning percentage - still in the top 50 alltime - after taking out 11 of his best years, is pretty impressive. (still better than Piniella, better than the great Leyland by a long shot).
And I’d guess Carlyle got sent down because we had 6 starters, and Carlyle has options. Cormier, I’m pretty sure, does not.
Anyway, I’ve got a couple of spare pair of glasses… you should try them sometime.
By N8
June 5, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
Not that anybody cares, but I’m an honest person, so I feel obligated to correct my mistake, since I’m a numbers guy and have been accused of “skewing” the numbers I post to make my case.
I forgot that 2003 was Glavine’s first year in NY. So the 101-61 record that year should go towards the “without” Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz on his staff category.
Making Bobby’s “without” record:
1251-1139 (.523 winning percentage)
And the “with” those 3 record:
952-600 (.613 winning percentage)
Also, it should be noted, that I realize that Smoltz wasn’t always in the rotation. He is however, a future HOF (1 of 3 Cox had as his dispense), and having him on the team in any fashion is a luxury.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here, and guess that Phillip Wellman could’ve won most of those games with those three guys on the team, as well.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
I see that Bryan Pena has played 3rd, LF, and catcher in the last few days…
I wonder if he will be the position player called up on Monday when a pitcher is sent down? That may ease the concern of using the backup catcher and free Salty up to at least DH in the interleague games…
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
N8, perhaps my case can’t be made by throwing numbers out there, but I just feel like this team is underacheiving greatly and is poised to make a big turn. Even without Gonzalez and with Paranto struggling this bullpen is worlds better; last year’s was a sick joke (even some of the same people who have finally figured out that they don’t have to suck). The rotation is a mess now, true, but I think they’ll pull together and I also feel like a trade is in the works. This team is too close to being good for JS not to aquire another decent starter to get everyone going. I can’t point to anything specific, I just think the team’s much better and it will be borne out before it’s all said and done with. You may call me out if I wind up wrong, or we can make a friendly wager if you wish. I’ve already got 50 bucks on the Braves beating the Mets out for the division with MetroMan; while I may have stepped in %^$# with that one I’ll extend the invitation to you for a piece of it. I’m not afraid to put my money where my mouth is. E-mail me at voton1066@yahoo.com.
By Manny Met
June 5, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this
JoeBrave, it’s too easy and I am sorry. I have no heart to do this to you anymore. Get someone to explain it to you. Your friend, Manny Met
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this
I posted that before all the echos of his post…I can’t cover everyone on the blog. :-) I’m not saying they’re great now; they’re struggling for most of the reasons you all are pointing out. I just think they’ll get better, is all. I think they’ll make a trade and I think they’ll get to the playoffs and maybe even out of the first round. I’m not optomistic just for the sake of optomism like KC; I really have faith in this team and even if I didn’t, they’re still my team and by god I’m gonna back ‘em.
By N8
June 5, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this
Grinch
I’m not a gambling man (spent a week in Vegas 3 years ago and didn’t bet a dime).
Don’t get me wrong. While I do enjoy a good “arguement”, and it may appear that I enjoy being the bearer of bad news, that’s not the case.
I’ll try and back up my reasoning with WHY it is that I feel the way I do.
But I hope you’re right about this year. While I won’t bet you. You (and everybody else) has my word that if the Braves make the playoffs, much less win the division, I’ll be the first to say “I guess I was wrong about this team”. However, I’m guessing that NONE of the optomists would even dare say that I was right about ANYTHING that I may end up being right about.
I too, believe that we are underachieving this year (Andruw, McCann, Chuck).
But one could argue that Hudson, Giles and the entire bullpen underachieved last year. So…
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this
Oops…I meant optimist, not optomist; at least I’m not the only one (though I did do it twice in one sentence). I’m there with you fairly often, Nate; I agree with a lot of what you say. I’ve just got a feeling. And on that note, I’ll make like Bobby and hit the hay. :-)
By JJMB
June 5, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this
Grinchy, I wouldn’t want to take $50 from you.
The Shield finale was *. I just hope they can keep the cast and writers together for another season.
Encore at midnight!
By A-villeRanger
June 5, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this
N8 What was Lombardi’s record without Starr ? or any coach ,manager,etc without their best players.I agree, without players there would be no good coaching.Maybe players should coach and make the coaches play. I Bet they wouldn’t be so hot then.
By Wayne in Utah
June 5, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
Grinch I have only been reading and participating on the blog since roughly last November, so my experience here is limited. Have the bloggers always been such short-term oriented whiners? A minority of bloggers seem to understand that the season is a long one.
Smoltz comes out after 6 with a decent outing, as Bobby wanted to be cautious with his shoulder. Then all the supposed blog experts are in great dispair. Jeez guys, have some patience. This team has a lot of potential to go far in the post season.
Sometimes it makes me want to throw up how negative some Braves fans can get….
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this
However, I’m guessing that NONE of the optimists would even dare say that I was right about ANYTHING that I may end up being right about.
N8, I understand your pessimism about the team, but about your fellow bloggers? I assure you, if the Braves tank, you’ll get all the credit:)
By Rally Monkey
June 5, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this
Grinch
Lots of folks here “back” the Braves. It’s a matter of perception as to what is and is not “acceptable” backing.
Some folks feel that if anyone is critical of the team that they aren’t true fans. Others feel that to accept the status quo without being critical means that one is not a true fan because you don’t really care that much.
There is no right answer. Personally, I live and die with the team. It troubles me when I see a lack of desire or application of talent. It bothers me when I hear all the excuses made by Cox, Skip, Pete, Lemke and Chip. That’s one reason I like Simpson. He isn’t afraid to call a spade a spade, or at least to the extent he can within the confines of his job as a Braves homer.
Look at the Braves everyday lineup. How many options are there? Truthfully, not many. The outfield is what it is and basically set. The infield is Kelly, Edgar, 3rd baseman of the day and Thorman. The 3rd base job may have found a decent stopgap with Escobar. Thorman is a wreck. It’s almost the all star break, how much longer can you go with him?
It’s not about everyone being on a Salty bandwagon deal, its about there being few options. Hell send Salty out for a couple of weeks playing first in the minors and bring him back OR bite the bullet and put him at first now!
Pull the batting order out of a hat if you have to but shake things up! I can fill out the lineup Bobby is filling out every day depending on lefty or righty!
Hell do something if it’s wrong but do something different!
By N8
June 6, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this
MBATL
“N8, I understand your pessimism about the team, but about your fellow bloggers? I assure you, if the Braves tank, you’ll get all the credit:)”
That actually made me laugh outloud. Nice job.
Rally Monkey
Very well said. Hit the nail right on the head.
By JJMB
June 6, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this
Great post Rally Monkey. You’re right on about Joe Simpson. I agree with what you say, except the live and die part. I’ll be damned if I live or die for a bunch of 20yo athletes doing anything.
I hope they win somehow, that’s it.
Great post, though.
By gotigers72
June 6, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this
Just on the small sample shown from Saltalamacchia so far, I would have to disagree with DOB’s assessment that McCann is a superior defensive catcher to Salty. Salty definitely has a stronger, more accurate arm, has looked better at blocking balls in the dirt [McCann has had a couple go through the 5 hole lately], and hasn’t had any passed balls. McCann has 5 passed balls I believe, but he gets a pass on 2 due to an injured finger. Framing pitches? Salty looks adequate there too. So what does that leave defensively for a catcher? Calling a game? I’ll give McCann the edge there for now, only because he has more experience at it. I’m sure with experience and proper teaching, Salty will be good at that aspect of the game before long. As I said, just a small sample to go on, but you can’t deny that cannon for an arm, and the fact that he is not bad defensively. Not at all.
The Braves lineup has 2 gaping holes in it now. One hitting .223, and one hitting .216. Right now the Pittsburgh trade looks bleak. Losing Gonzalez for at least a year, and losing LaRoche forever. He’s not hitting good yet, but he will end up with a better average and better power numbers than Thorman by the end of the year. Yes, I was one of the ones bragging heavily on JS for making that trade. Just didn’t think Thorman would be so bad. All of those strikeouts! YIKES! I believe his slump has become mental now also. You can see in his body language that he is frustrated and lacks confidence. How much longer can they go with him at first, as he freefalls toward the Mendoza line?
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this
When Smoltz is having troubles, physical or no, it seems he takes his turn and improvises, or at least so attempts … maybe that’s what Escobar, Diaz and Johnson did too … others might give it a try.
All in all, a rather disappointing day though twas good to see that Boyer had a successful ninth and we did get the split.
The Braves aren’t losers though based on some of the comments, I’m not too sure about some of us … mine included.
Getting negative thoughts out of my system … I hope
I don’t like being negative … never have, never will … but, search as I might, I don’t see the leadership anywhere in sight. The key to this team’s winning is attitude and approach … the talent is there.
While they may be on the cusp of being something special, the leadership element somehow appears to be missing … methinks Chipper’s capable but if he’s the heart of the team, it may just have a bum ticker.
It would be nice to see another dragon amongst the coaches, breathing some fire … no good reason for so thinking, but maybe they’re on too tight of a leash.
I can’t agree with Miss Day’s husband about finishing last but he was directionally correct … those who accept defeat, lose.
By David O'Brien
June 6, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this
Great season finale of Th Shield tonight. Another terrific season.
Jason, I wasn’t out there today for the doubleheader, but I think you’re assumption about Pena is accurate. He makes the most sense among possibilities for callup. I was talking with a couple of writers Sunday when Salty played 1B, and this subject came up, on how they could bring back Pena and Salty would get to play a lot more. We’ll see, but it seems the logical move, barring a trade acquisition between now and then, which seems doubtful.
By Coach
June 6, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this
Remember , you guys are asking Bobby Cox to be creative. The man has been doing the same thing the same way for twenty-five seasons. For Cox , patience and stubborness are one in the same. This team has been going nowhere fast for the better part of six weeks now and I don’t expect that to change anytime soon.
By Lew
June 6, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this
Smoltz looked like he is going to be fine and Boyer looked good. So did Buddy Carlyle. We gained a half game on the Mets. Go to bed and quit griping.
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this
Utah’s Wayne, the Blog has its share of micromanagers, that’s for sure and even I find myself more than a bit frustrated … and ponder as I will, I haven’t unearthed the true source of that frustration … it’s certainly not because of the teams record in terms of wins and loses.
Last year, I recall one of our outspoken regulars totally giving up on the team for life, without equivocation … and avowing never again to post, at least until “next season” … though equivocate he did, throughout the season’s remainder … routinely reversing himself, often within the same post.
No names, but he’s still a postin’!
We must constantly remind ourselves that times are a changin’ … Fans just aren’t what they used to be, back before the days of air conditioned churches!
By Bobby Cocks
June 6, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this
Why can’t our idiot manager put the hot bats in the lineup. It seems he can’t wait to punish a player who has a good game by benching him for the next start. Joe and the new guy are full of hockey in the booth talking about Thorman and McCann struggling because they’re looking over their shoulder at Salty. Joe’s turning into the MLB version of what Sean Salisbury is to the NFL , a blowhard who can’t see the forest for the trees sometimes. Cox loyalty goes beyond what’s reasonable, we would have three or four world titles with a chain smoking Jim Leyland on the bench.
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this
Equivocating a bit myself, it’s always been amusing to me … some of the emotional coaches trying to inspire the team … not like Bobby’s cheerleading … more like Rockne’s inspirational speeches. I keep waiting for someone to ask “how we agoin’ to do that, coach?”
Say Goodnight Gracie
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2007 1:24 AM | Link to this
Hmmmm. Just got back on the blog and read the lecture. “Retarded” suddenly is tossed in with racial slurs. Guess I’ll have to stop typing the words “dumb” and “lame”. I think I’ll stick with the broader definition though. Not the newspeak of ever shrinking vocabulary and one deminsional meanings.
To Retard: To cause to move or proceed slowly; delay or impede. A slowing down or hindering of progress; a delay. To be delayed. In Music, A slackening of tempo. Example: To watch the Braves retard their progress in the standings through a game against poor quality pitchers to the point of a near no-hitter.
Normally this stuff doesn’t bother me, but to see some equation of a common descriptive non-offensive word to a racial slur simply bums me out. Oh wait, probably shouldn’t use the word “bum” either, it might offend some @ss.
By Wayne in Utah
June 6, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this
Last night I posted a long blog with my frustrations with the supposed “Braves Fans”. I know it was posted late, but there was absolutely no response from any of the naysayers. I know I post late sometimes, but hey, it’s where I work and live.
I am going to repost a part of what I said last night to all the Thorman Bashers on this blog. What say ye? Should the Phillies have punted on this player back in the early 70’s?
*Thorman might never amount to much, but we can’t throw him out this soon. Not enought time. Go to the Baseball Almanac and check out Hall of Fame third basemen. One in particular in his first full year, had the following stats: 367 AB’s, 18 HR’s, 52 RBI’s, 196 BA, 324 OBP, 373 SLG, and 136 Strike Outs!!!
Wondering??? Do you know???
I bet the Phillies are glad they didn’t listen to their fans back then and send Mike Schmidt packing.
On a lesser basis, Matt Williams with the Giants in the late 80’s got off to an auspicious start, but had a very nice career. So, let’s cut Scottie a little bit of slack. If we want to platoon him, fine, but let’s give him a chance.*
For anyone who reads this, do you still want to give up on Scott Thorman after one decent month, and one bad month?????? Heck, AJ has sucked all year long…….
nite all
By mr baseball
June 6, 2007 1:34 AM | Link to this
The calls for Pena to be recalled from Richmond may be counterproductive. What function will he serve other than to sit on the bench and occasionally pinch hit? If he plays, that means Salty won’t be catching any more. Don’t need 3 catchers, especially when McCann is #1.
If he’s called up to sit, that means Salty will play 1st on occasion and catch on occasion, but he can do that anyway if Cox will tempt fate and have both McCann & Salty on the field at the same time. With all of 4 players on the bench, 2 of them Woodward & Orr, Cox has little room to maneuver, although that may be a blessing in disguise.
Not sure why the team is carrying 13 pitchers. Nobody is overworked except Moylan, who keeps getting called on while Yates, McBride & Paronto mostly sit.
The team has GOT to bring someone in to split time at 1B with Thorman, who needs a break. Cox may finally give in and give Salty a shot, but none of us should hold our breath.
We’re getting a look how the lineup stacks up without Chipper and it ain’t pretty. Andruw frequently has stepped up in similar past situations, but for whatever reason, no longer appears capable. That puts a lot of the burden on McCann & Francouer, both of whom have been pretty ordinary of late.
Cox hates to tinker with his batting order, but he may need to consider shaking things up a bit. Diaz does not need to be hitting 8th. He and Harris should be at or near the top of the lineup, and Cox needs to think about hitting Johnson behind Harris. If Thorman is going to play every day and continue his charge at the Mendoza line, hit him 8th and minimize his drag on the offense.
Team just seems to be spinning its wheels, and with the Mets to catch in the East and 3 teams that appear capable of winning 90 in the West, a 2nd straight year out of the playoffs is looking more likely every day.
YIKES.
By A-ville Ranger
June 6, 2007 1:37 AM | Link to this
DOB I really hate to admit it but from what I see Salty looks like a more mechanically sound catcher than McCann at this point.The arm difference is obvious.More important is the poor job at blocking and some other things where B.Mc. just looks a little sloppy right now.
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this
10Paul … Kudos old friend!
I guess I missed that … and while I was preparing to shut down for a spell, I will do a quick search to see what that’s all about!
However, even without looking, and using the vernacular of the day, I can’t see how retard has naything to do with race … whither it be a sprint or a route … trust me, we come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
Stay safe!
By A-ville Ranger
June 6, 2007 2:01 AM | Link to this
Bob Journalist You shouldn’t be so pessimistic concerning your capacity for pessimism.While you’re not in Robert’s league who is to pessimism what Larry Flynt once was to porn.Still your conviction that BC couldn’t dress himself, and that this team is doomed to eternal futility, should at least be recognized.
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 2:16 AM | Link to this
10Paul, having been introduced to the “n” word by my nanny talking to her own children, I can see how words like retard have different connotations and levels of associated sensitivity for folks of differing backgrounds and intelligence levels.
Of course, FYI may have a point … my nanny was intelligent and rather well educated … and I don’t recall her ever calling any of her children retards.
By Train Wreck Bystander
June 6, 2007 3:03 AM | Link to this
How long do we have to wait for Carlyle to clear waivers? He definitely deserves a second look, and it would be a shame to lose him just yet.
We should be grateful that we are only 3½ games behind the Mets. But those of you who have conceded the NL East to those guys are jumping the gun!
By Braves Fan 79
June 6, 2007 3:09 AM | Link to this
I agree man…The Braves would have several titles with jim leland on the bench. He follows his instincts and dosent always play it by the book. In fact back in 2003 or 4…whatever year we had mike hampton sorry a$$$ starting game 5….i bet leland would of brought Smoltz out of the pen to start. I mean go with your best player right!? (by the way the game was over by the 4th inning…way before smoltz could make a difference.)(the night before the game when they announced hampton as the starter i just got a sick feeling in my stomach!) I mean its not like your best pitcher dosent have any postseason experience….SMOLTZ IS ONE OF THE BEST POSTSEASON PITCHERS EVER!!!
Anyways that one moment really hurt my view of bobby…but still i love the guy because he coaches MY team…and im gonna live and die with my team regardless! Go Bobby…and GO Braves! always till death….a proud fan from Douglasville Ga. Dustin H.
By Berigan
June 6, 2007 3:11 AM | Link to this
mr baseball, if Bryan Pena comes up, it should mean that Salty will be playing some 1st base, otherwise why bring him up? (Unless it’s a loyalty thing, and Cox feels bad for Pena losing the back-up position via injury, and getting stuck back in AAA)
It’s funny, I mentioned it a couple nights ago, the Braves seemed to be caught competely off guard by how good Salty is with so little time in AA. That is fine, but they still don’t seem to know what to do with him! It’s understandable to a point, but “they” seem to be confused.
I am sure they thought they’d trade him down the road, then they saw him play. Chipper said they need to find a place for him, he is ready now! Ok, can’t trade him(Unless the Twins want to trade Johan Santana ;) ) But he is a switch hitting power hitting Catcher. Well, can’t make him the catcher, we have McCann. Make him the 1st baseman! Wait, Thorman is the 1st baseman, and one good month and one bad month in your first full season shouldn’t make you a bench warmer, should it? Ok, left field? He’s athletic, and has a great arm. Well, are best hitters right now happen to be left fielders!
I know, tough choices. But since Bobby et al seem to have all the patience in the world with centerfielders or 1st baseman in slumps, why not send Salty to AAA for a month to learn 1st a bit better, catching a game a week perhaps, then make a decision on 1st base? Salty can’t really improve on the bench, not much at least….
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 3:13 AM | Link to this
A-ville Ranger, regarding You shouldn’t be so pessimistic concerning your capacity for pessimism
I wasn’t aware that I had made any direct or indirect references to my capacity for pessimism as I haven’t given it any serious consideration.
The only conviction that I have concerning Bobby Cox is that he is a manager with few equals, baseball or otherwise.
From my perspective, the verdict is still out regarding the destiny of the team … it’s doomed to absolutely nothing. It is my honest conviction that it is highly talented.
Like Shaun, I look for the algorithm defining performance … we just look in different places … and I try, regardless of how it might seem, to so do without emotional prejudice, whether it be of the optimistic or pessimistic variety.
That said, like 10Paul, I take pride in the team I support and go to bed at night believing that all will be well and we will prevail … which I consider to be optimism.
Were I to believe that we were doomed, I would not be concerned with amorality and apathy … methinks those who are not so concerned either lack the level of awareness required for either optimism or pessimism … or, are living in a vacuum.
By F Y I
June 6, 2007 3:32 AM | Link to this
Bob My point on the use of the term retard is that like race whether you’re white,asian or black it’s a condition that is not a choice or a changeable thing.Like the n word it is also one of those words that says more about the person using it than the person the word is aimed at.It is a word that says, look at me I’m clueless and proud of it.
By serbok
June 6, 2007 3:33 AM | Link to this
OMG!! Rally Monkey Talk about a blast from the past??????????? Mike Lumm! Holey Shyte man! I have been around the sun~49 times~ and you sir? Wow:o) Thanx:o) “member, Cecil Upshaw, Jabo, Ron REED, The Sarge? man~ who else? Of COURSE The BEEG Boy! lol maybe Mack Jones? Talk about a “Walkman Mofo! I was one of those!” I love my new Ipod! it was 85 bucks after tax~ If ya havent done yourself a favor and experienced an Ipod yet~ Ya need to~
By fastasballs
June 6, 2007 3:34 AM | Link to this
The team at the plate as a whole looks bad. Everyone seems too impatient. Earlier in the year they would have won tonights game & yesterdays game.
The whole line up is too impatient at the plate. They are swinging at way too many first pitches. Earlier in the year if they were not hitting a particular pitcher, they would start working counts as a whole. They are going to face pitchers who bring their “A” game, but with a little more patience they won’t have to see him as long, thus increasing their chances to win.
There are situations or against certain pitchers (Glavine & Maddux) that there is a call to swing early in the count, but not against every damn pitcher.
As some of you have mentioned it looks like the wheels are about to come off this team. If the bats remain cold another LONG June may await.
The only real positives going right now is Davies, Escobar, Salty & Willie Harris. I love the energy Escobar, Salty & Harris bring. McCann just doesn’t seem right, almost taking on the LaRoche nonchalant attitude. I’m sure that’s not the case but something has to be bugging the guy, finger, emotions?
The problem Cox has with Thor is he can’t sit him. I really don’t think Salty is going to play first on a regular basis. I think JS makes a trade of some kind, but not involving Salty. I think Salty is the future face of this organization.
By A-ville Ranger
June 6, 2007 3:38 AM | Link to this
Bob I may have been thinking of another blogger who goes on about BC.I’m not being sarcastic,if I’m wrong it sure isn’t the first, or I expect the last time.
By serbok
June 6, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this
MBATL You sure are a Bobby lover! Thats cool! I like the man also! However as Bill cosby must have said? The proof is in the Pudding? lol When I came upon this blog~ there was (is) A poster that had the balls to call it like it is(and always has been!) I do not support the blogger’s postings more often than not~ thats due to the fact he wants to not “talk” BB Doesnt have anything more to say than~ Bobby is a Donk! (any Idea whom I speak of” LOL The truth is, is that he is absolutely!!!! correct!! I mean for god’s sake! To have been given the talent~and win all those division titles~ C’mon guys? Dont ya’ll see that there is ONLY ONE constant denomimator?? * ROBERT* is absolutely correct!!!! Would I want anyone else managing the Braves? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Except maybe Willie Randolph:o( I mean I love this blog Carroll and DOB do great stuff! and I’m sure they also realize that without us bloggers there isnt a blog? DUH? LOL WE are very well informed by the likes of these 2? and i am never ceased to be amazed at the intelligence of certain bloggers on here~ But Face it~ there are many more aspects to holding a team 2gether than on field managing? Seems to me there has to be!!!!!! Hence Bobby still having a job? “don’t be blinded by the light” let the light give you sight? The braves team today will be different than the braves team come sept. The braves seem to me to be much more talented than the muts~ I realize its young kids~ but Pedro isnt gonna be Pedro we have seen in the past~ they dont have the luxuries we have? I just hope Bobby doesnt muck it up with his stubborness~ which to me~and to a degeree many on this blog see on a weekly basis!
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 4:54 AM | Link to this
A-ville Ranger, no harm, no foul … though I was taken aback … my only problem with Bobby is his outbursts of profane language, especially given the iconic rolemodel status bestowed upon him by so many … though I frequently with some of his ingame decisions, he’s a managerial pastmaster.
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 6:37 AM | Link to this
My day and my nights are as confused as I …
FYI, though I am appalled by the abuse suffered by our language, I think it’s in the usage the we find propriety or lack thereof … while the color of our skin may be something about which little can be easily done, the “n” word is what we make it … as is retard.
Few are so insensitive or insecure as to intentionally mock, belittle or affront the mentally disadvantaged … indeed, most refrain out of due recognition of the fact that their condition is not of their choosing … though many will so treat those whom they feel are acting irresponsibly by choice.
I’m not attempting to justify such behavior since I feel there are superior, far less confrontational and more effective devices available … especially if the objective is behavior modification.
However, I strongly oppose the attaching of “political correctness” to words … methinks so doing is the epitome of prejudice.
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 7:15 AM | Link to this
Closing with a note on language abuse … seen earlier this morning, heading AJC’s Most Popular Stories list … Lawerenceville Woman Found Murdered in West Palm Beach.
My immediate reaction was that if the story was the most popular, then she surely must have been well known and despised … inane perhaps, but we should be evermindful the mind triggers are unique to the individual and what we say may not be received as intended.
It would be nice to win today, in honor of it being old Folks Day at Kroger’s!
By JasonInMaine
June 6, 2007 7:37 AM | Link to this
Pena played 1B last night for Richmond…that’s 4 different positions in the last 4 games: LF, 3B, 1B, and C.
Is he going to become our super utility guy? DOB, thanks for the feedback in regards to Pena. I am now convinced he will be the one called up!
Regards,
Jason
By JasonInMaine
June 6, 2007 7:43 AM | Link to this
Also from the Minors:
Devine pitched 1.1 innings last night giving up 1 hit while striking out 4. He lowered his ERA to 1.69 and picked up his 14th save.
J.C. Holt seems to be doing really well since be moved to Miss…he is batting .390 with 7 SBs. Loadenthal has his average up to .328 and has stolen 20 bases (he has been caught 11 times).
Regards,
Jason
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2007 7:47 AM | Link to this
Positive spin time.
We’ve been without Chipper awhile now, and we’re still only 3 1/2 games back of the Mets, who are dealing with their own injury woes.
Plus, our minor league call-ups have infused some energy into this team. Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Yunel Escobar, to me, make Brayan Pena and Chris Woodward expendable. Seeing their names in the lineup just don’t give a Braves’ fan that same “we’re gonna lose this game” gut feeling like seeing Woodward, Orr and/or Brayan Pena in the lineup.
This team will not hit a swoon like they did last June. Hell, if last year’s flawed team hadn’t had that swoon, they’d have been in the thick of the wild card hunt. This team’s better, so they should do no worse than winning the wild card, if they can just start firing on all cylinders.
We’re gonna get by w/out Mike Gonzalez in the bullpen. We have a bevvy of guys in the minors that can step in, nevermind the guys coming off DL stints.
We’re gonna get more solid performances out of Lance Cormier than we got last weekend. It was his first game back, and hell, after Lou Piniella’s tirade and the clubhouse blow up, looks like the Cubs are waking up. I think we got out at a good time, frankly.
That being said, having he, Smoltz, Hudson (needs ADHD medication, maybe?), Chuck James all on the hill for us, thrown in with the occasional Kyle Davies gem (God forbid he get consistently good, right?) makes our rotation one of the NL’s best.
Let’s get a healthy Chipper back in the lineup, let’s get another “carries the team” surge out of Andruw…
…and let’s see where we are then.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2007 8:14 AM | Link to this
Oh, and to answer Grinch…
…I think (since you asked) that Saltalamacchia’s a good bat without a position to play in, for us; believed all along he has no busienss playing 1B in a meaningful game and won’t see anymore time there unless we’re in a blowout. I think those of you who wanna see him play there need to push for him to be sent down (only when Chipper returns, please…) to Richmond or Mississippi to hone his craft at 1B.
No doubt, the kid can rake; no doubt, he’s gotta cannon arm behind the dish. But McCann’s our guy behind the plate and Jarrod’s not ready to play 1B. I’ve said that all along, and his foibles there over the weekend sort of back that up.
Yeah, I’d love to see the guy play more often, but he has to have a place to play. Baseball reality, Grinch.
By The Grinch
June 6, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this
There he is! Ron Roberts, I agree with your 7:47 (except for the quality of our rotation), but wasn’t it you who as recently as a couple of days ago was at least indirectly giving me all kinds of sarcastic grief about extolling Salty’s virtues? If I have you confused with another blogger, I apologize in advance. Loved seeing Escobar clap his hands after getting that double yesterday (even though nobody drove him in); that’s the sort of energy this team needs.
Several good posts from a variety of people after I went to bed…better late night stuff than usual (not as funny, but more well-considered).
Bob, I agree that while it’s better to be nice if you can (I know that sounds hypocritical coming from me), political correctness makes me want to vomit. Oops, I guess I should say it makes me “gastrointestinally challenged.” Bah!
Time to get some work done.
By The Grinch
June 6, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this
Never mind; hate it when posts get there late. I agree again that he needs a place and doesn’t have one; what I was referring to was what I thought to be your contention that I was an idiot for wanting him to play in the big leagues when he was only a “AA” player (and seems like something similar went along about Escobar); perhaps I misunderstood you. However, no biggie. I think we agree now, anyway. I will say I agree with Joe that having those two do what they’re doing is affecting both B-Mac and Thorman mentally (whether it should or not) and much as I hate to say it, somebody somewhere has got to be traded. We can’t have this logjam of talent (to our detriment) at several positions when we need a decent starter so badly; the writing is on the wall. Of course, if there’s nothing available that makes sense, what does one do? Aggravating, to say the least.
By ssiscribe
June 6, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this
Top of the morning, denizens, on a glorious day off from the current gig as the countdown to the new gig continues.
Really needed to get that second game last night. Looked like we didn’t have anything in the tank, plain and simple. Need to muster the energy to get out there today and get a win. Need these wins against the Marlins and Cubs at home. These are games we need to win.
Now, Escobar (transition by the noted Scribe): I love the way this dude plays. He’s got the skills, indeed. While it’s unrealistic to expect him to continue to hit above .400, at the same time, it’s clear this guy can play. And Grinch, I too loved the emotion after the double early on in the nightcap last night. We need that infusion of energy and passion. At times, I don’t think we play with the sense of urgency we need.
Now, Davies (more transition): Four good starts out of his past six. If he can go out there today and throw it well, I’ll be ready to pronounce him back and a totally viable part of this rotation (which we all did after those first four starts in 2005).
That will leave one open spot left in the rotation. Cormier? Carlyle? A pitcher currently residing elsewhere? Personally, I think Cormier is going to be the answer. He’s had one really bad outing since the start of spring training, and that just so happened to be at Wrigley Sunday, when he lollipopped some pitches down the middle after getting ahead in the count and they got blasted into the bleachers. Body of work, he’s better than Carlyle, although Buddy was super impressive yesterday and probably deserved to pitch again Sunday night against the Cubs, instead of jumping on a bird for Richmond.
Now, birds (look at that transition): What is all this talk about birds on the blog? Must we now call our gathering place the Braves/MIB/Pie/Toes/Birds Blogosphere? Honey, we’re gonna need a bigger sign.
That’s it from here. I’m listening to a friend of a friend’s band’s new CD; absolutely incredible. Can’t tell y’all who it is (and some of you probably wouldn’t know them anyway), but suffice to say it’s got hits all over it. I’m gonna get some cleaning done for Mrs. Scribe, run some errands and get on up to the yard so I can grab me a seat in the outfield.
Wishing all of you a blessed and wonderful day, as I get ready to head to Turner Field and enjoy the absolute greatest sport God put on the face of the Earth, and cheer on my hometown team on a sun-splashed day in the capital city. Life, denizens, is grand indeed.
And, now and forever, the Scribe abides. Peace.
—30—
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this
Ron…I do not thin that Pena is expendable. I thnk that in the next few weeks, (assuming Thorman stays in his current slump, and Salty continues to hit when given the chance), we will see more of Salty at 1B (like it or not). If that happens, we will need Pena to serve as the backup Catcher.
By BravesFanInRockies
June 6, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
Wayne,
I have no idea if Thorman will eventually be an effective ML player. But the next Mike Schmidt or Matt Williams?? Send me some of that Kool-aid.
Schmidt and Williams were both fine defensive players (SS when they came up) and contributed in other ways while managers waited for the bats to come around. Schmidt in particular also had a decent BB/K ratio in his early days; that’s a sign that he understands the strike zone and can learn to be a patient hitter.
Thorman’s not a buthcher at first, but he is plodding. And he has no idea what’s a decent pitch to flail at.
Patience might be warranted if the Braves could afford to play a corner infielder who’s an offensive liability right now. But with Chipper hurt and Andruw struggling, this team cannot contend with a 1B who’s learning to hit at the ML level. Wilson was supposed to take some of the pressure off Thorman, but that didn’t work. The team desperately needs another bat in the lineup and Salty — who’s obviously a superior athlete with great hands and feet and should be able to learn the position — looks like the best option available.
By Rally Monkey
June 6, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah
Numbers without context are just that. Numbers.
Mike Schmidt in 1973 played for a Phillies team that finished 20 games under .500. If the Braves were a team that was on the way to a 20 game under .500 season, they could afford to have the patience of Job with Thorman. If this Braves team were the KC Royals, I would feel really stoked about their future! Lots of promise, but we aren’t there yet. But that isn’t the case. This team has a shot to contend for a playoff spot. Unlike years past, the rest of the NL is not ready to concede a playoff spot to the Braves. Like Lloyd Bentsen said to Dan Quayle, you’re no Jack Kennedy. Thorman is no Mike Schmidt, at least not yet.
Thorman isn’t the anti-christ. He’s a young kid struggling to be a major league ballplayer. He may make a good one. He may not. As of today, right now, he is the weakest link in a lineup that is struggling to find some consistency. He’s approaching half a season and still looks lost at the plate. His swing looks totally out of control. His approach at the plate, well, he doesn’t seem to really have an idea. Salty, on the other hand, has a polished, controlled swing. He eludes confidence in the batters box. So I have to ask, which one of these guys seems to have the tools today to hit big league pitching and which looks like there is a lot of work to do to produce satisfactory results? If you were to go car shopping tomorrow, and saw two cars with the same mileage, would you buy the one that purred like a kitten when you started it or the one that had a loud knock in the engine? Listen, you don’t give up on Thorman. You keep working with him. You keep playing him at first, but not every day. He’s not ready to have the weight of the world on his shoulders yet.
As I said earlier, bite the bullet and put Salty at first or send him out for a few weeks to play first every day in the minors. If Thor comes around during that time, you only get stronger with more options for Salty. If not, you get a better bat in the lineup when he comes back. * It’s not Thor bashing, it’s evaluating your options on how to get better. Because if you don’t get better, you don’t make the playoffs. Or is everyone happy with the results the Braves are getting today?*
Serbok
I’m old enough to have actually been to Fulton County Stadium and watched all those guys play. Rico Carty was a monster wasn’t he?
*Ron Roberts
I agree with your baseball reality comment. You can create your own reality by being proactive or you can be a victim of your reality should you choose to stand by with your hands in your pockets. We keep hearing from the Braves that they wish they could get Salty more opportunities, yet they have done nothing to create those opportunities! Create a more positive “baseball reality!” Send Salty out and get some work done so you can give him those opportunities!
Bring Pena back while he’s gone and keep Pena when he gets back.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this
Bailey… Pena’s gonna be necessary while Saltalamacchia’s in Richmond or Mississippi getting more time learning to play 1B. I think the Braves keep Pena and Saltalamacchia on the roster - after Jarrod returns from the minors.
His playing 1B over the weekend came only because we were in a hopeless blowout. And his throwing error and bobble just shows why taking grounders during warmups and BP isn’t the same as game-day experience.
He needs seasoning at 1B, and “learning” at this level isn’t wise for a team in a playoff race.
I was sorta over-stating it when I said Pena’s expendable, I guess; I’m just saying it’s nicer to see Saltamacchia in the lineup as a backup catcher than Pena, offensively-speaking. If we only kept Saltalamacchia up as a backup catcher, then Pena would be expendable. That being said, if we’re going to transition him to 1B, Pena’s the quality backup we need.
By Braveheart
June 6, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
Thorman strikes me as a fella who needs two years at each level to finally reach the level where he belongs.
At Rookie level, he hits .227, .330, .351, .681. The next year at A ball, he hits .294, .367, .489, .856.
Then he goes to A+ and hits .243, .311, .391, .702. Because he flunked the grade the first time around, he has to repeat the grade and he hits .299, .358, .461, .819
Then he goes to AA and he hits .252, .326, .406, .732. He repeats the grade again at AA and hits .305, .360, .506, .866.
Then he goes to AAA and he hits .276, .313, .438, .751. He repeats the AAA grade and hits .298, .360, .508, .868
Now in the majors (including last year), he is .224, .257, .410. Looks like he is going to need go to summer school and repeat the grade again.
In the middle of a playoff run, can we afford to tutor a kid who we know is going to flunk the year and have to repeat it next year with the hope that he will pass the grade the next year? Do we really have any choice though? Are there any other options?
By Epinephrine
June 6, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this
I don’t care if he needs more time “polishing” his first base skills. There is no way anyone can say with a straight face that this team is better off with Thorman at first base than Salty.
Salty is a tremendous athlete that has played the position before. At worst, he would be mediocre for awhile before becoming decent. Thorman is a huge drain on this lineup. He has way too many holes in his swing to ever hit a meaningful groove, and that isn’t something that is going to change overnight. Further, he isn’t even a very good defensive first baseman.
Bite the bullet and put Salty in.
By Rally Monkey
June 6, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this
BravesfaninRockies
Had I waited a few more minutes to post, I would have seen your post seven minutes prior to mine that said exactly what I was saying. Only you did it better and with fewer words lol
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies and Wayne in Utah,
I think there are a lot of similarities between Thorman and LaRoche. Thorman obviously isn’t as good defensively and probably is stronger but they are similar.
LaRoche had about a 2.6-to-1 K:BB ratio his first season in the bigs. Thorman is about at 4.5-to-1 in his first 107 games.
Thorman’s striking out less than LaRoche and hitting for more extra-base power but he’s also walking a lot less.
Thorman’s AVG on balls in play is only .240. A typical average is .290. LaRoche’s, in his first season, was .328 and he still hit only .278.
You have to figure eventually the outs Thorman is making when he is making contact will turn into hits.
By Ron Roberts
June 6, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this
Epinephrine… aside from maybe Little League and his uh, not-so-polished performance last weekend, Jarrod Saltalamacchia has not played first base at the MLB level “before.” So, with a straight face, I’ll tell ya, we’re better off defensively with Thorman out there, and better off offensively if we were to play Saltalamacchia at 1B. That being said, this team’s philosophy is about pitching and defense.
So methinks Jarrod eventually gets sent down to get better at 1B befoer we see him start a game there and/or play it all that often.
Braveheart… good stuff. You asked…
In the middle of a playoff run, can we afford to tutor a kid who we know is going to flunk the year and have to repeat it next year with the hope that he will pass the grade the next year? Do we really have any choice though?
The answer is no, we don’t have any choice, apparently. If we played Saltalamacchia there, he’d likely struggle and/or “flunk” defensively at first, if not for a good while. And how many times have we seen a player struggle in one facet of their game and have it adversely affect their strnegth in other facets? Just a little baseball psychology there. Haha.
By AthensBrave
June 6, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
Its pretty unfortunate that we can’t take of the Marlins while the Mets are struggling for the first time all year. Where has the offense gone?
By Efrim
June 6, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
I feel Davies getting beat on today.
But thats not the issue.
This sad offense is.
McCann, A. Jones and Frenchy are the culprits.
All of which don’t have an OPS that reach .800!!!!!
And of course Thorman who has an OPS of .640………
By MGL
June 6, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this
After the Cubs series, there is a day off, then off to play the Twins and Indians. A good time for Pena to come up as backup catcher so that either McCann or Salty can be DH.
By FLBRAVESFAN
June 6, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
Geez - so much rhetoric to explain away a power position hitting .216 with as many K’s as hits. As someone said succinctly yesterday - the guy is a AAA performer. But let’s be charitable and give him another 100 at bats which will take him to 400 MLB AB’s. Then when he is still in the two teens or twenties, cut our losses.
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
Here’s something that we could interpret as a great testament to Bobby Cox and the Braves organization’s ability to keep the clubhouse distraction-free:
http://100percentinjuryrate.blogspot.com/2007/06/best-of-gary-sheffield.html
Sheffield is in the Mike Vick category of trashiest people in pro sports.
By beachcomber
June 6, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
Chipper Who? Just kidding. But the more I see Escobar the more I hope he is somehow, somewhere a part of our future.
By JasonInMaine
June 6, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this
From the Dallas Morning News:
“GM Jon Daniels said his club would probably be a seller as the trade deadline approaches unless it makes a quick and drastic turnaround, but he downplayed the possibility of trading Mark Teixeira… Detroit and Atlanta had scouts at Tuesday’s game. Both could use some bullpen help. Philadelphia, which spent some time over the winter talking with the Rangers about a bullpen trade, is also searching for relievers.”
DOB, any educated guesses as to who the Bravos may have been scouting? We need a starter!
Regards,
Jason
By Efrim
June 6, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
Beachcomber
Escobar is going to be part of a deal that nets us a quality starter.
If he is successful, then he should be used in a trade instead of Salty. Even though he would be nice to keep because our best hitter only plays in 120 games a year.
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
Efrim,
McCann is 7th in OPS among all C.
Andruw is 10th in OPS among all CF.
Francouer is 12th in OPS among all RF.
Andruw and Francouer could improve but the problems are they aren’t getting anything from firstbase and Chipper is hurt.
By Efrim
June 6, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
JasoninMaine
They have no starting pitching that is to be desired. I doubt we were looking at Tex. My guess is that JS wants to fortify that bullpen since the loss of Mike Gonzalez. Maybe Otsuka or Gagne.
By eric the elder
June 6, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, excellent analysis on Thorman.
When a team is going mediocre to bad, it’s tempting to find a scapegoat like Thorman, Woodward, Orr, and just pile all our frustrations on that one guy. If the team were going well. none of those fellers would be getting much blog space.
The fact is that we are getting next to little from our 4 through 8 holes, and therein lies our misery. Chipper is hitting .300, leads the league in slugging, and leads the team in homers, so his loss is massive. Still, this is when a team with good leadership impresses the need to step up, and I don’t see that happening.
We are attracted to the likes of Yunel and Salty because we see natural youthful exuberance, and we long to see that from the other players as well. That doesn’t seem to be a Braves tradition, though.
By geauxbraves2000
June 6, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
Meanwhile the Braves are falling in the WC also, now 2 back. I know it’s only two games, but they are going the wrong way.
On another note, Smotlz could’ve probably been in top consideration the past couple of years if it weren’t for the pen blowing all of these leads. Finally the Braves have a couple out there who can hold leads, but the offense shuts down. He’s probably near 225 wins or more the way he’s pitched. He’s deserved a better fate.
3rd note, it’s going to be hard to make the playoffs with a #1 starter, 4 #7 starters, with an occasional #3 thrown in.
4th note, no matter how much I complain the Braves are still my team, no matter what they do. I want my headstone to be a big A. :)
Geaux Braves!!
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
Efrim…I agree (sadly) that Escobar will probably not be here at the end of the year. He (hopefully instead of Salty) will be traded for a starting pitcher. While they’re at it, they should package Thorman and get a reliever or outfielder as well.
By Efrim
June 6, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
Shaun
Gotta pick up the slack man. McCann being 7th in OPS for catchers in the NL is terrible. His OPS has dropped like 130 points. Not good.
Francouer has a 798 OPS. Not good.
A Jones struggles have been well documented.
When your best hitter goes down, others need to pick the slack up. They haven’t.
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
FLBRAVESFAN,
If you take singles out of the equation (Isolated Power), Thorman is actually putting up better power numbers than Francouer and McCann.
The problem isn’t so much his strikeout rate. It’s his extreme lack of walks and the fact that he’s not hitting ‘em where they ain’t a lot when he is making contact.
As I said, his BABIP is .240. You have to figure that will change eventually given the typical BABIP is .290.
By geauxbraves2000
June 6, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
On another note, Smotlz could’ve probably been in top consideration
for a Cy Young award that is…
By Lew
June 6, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
Mr.Baseball-The logic behind calling up Pena is this-With Salty as the backup catcher, he will only receive playing time once a week backing up McCann. BC will not even use him as a pinch hitter, for the simple reason it leaves him with no backup catcher, The same holds true with playing first base-no reserve catcher without moving another 1B in there. If Pena is brought up to catch once a week, it frees Salty up for more playing time at first (see discussions yesterday relating to his preparedness, or lack thereof), or pinch hitting, giving the Braves the benefit of his bat.
By Efrim
June 6, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
GeauxBraves2000
I wouldn’t say Hudson is a #3. He isn’t an ace. But he is a strong #2 by today’s standards.
The rest of the rotation is spotty. James has a good ERA, but he hasn’t been very good. Not enough innings for a higher ERA. He is like Al Leiter. Davies has not turned the corner. If he goes out today and pitches 7 innings while giving up 2 Earned runs then I will believe a little more. Cormier and Carlyle are poor #5’s and we will need to get another starter before the deadline.
By Bigboi
June 6, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
DOB is it true that Salty and Big Mac are both in the lineup today?
By journalist jimmy smith
June 6, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
journalist cannot improve on this, so journalist will merely repeat:
“…”I wear three pairs of socks. When I take them off, I dig my thumb in, so taking off my socks hurts. …
oh, the humanity! journalist must comment! forgive jimmy smith for breaking jimmy smith’s earlier pledge.
why wear three pair of socks (up from two pair of socks earlier in the season)? are there no thicker socks avaiable?
and wouldn’t removing one pair of thick socks be less painful than removing three pair of thinner socks?
and why must chipper dig chipper’s thumb in to remove chipper’s socks? this is not necessary in sock removal!
roll those socks down, chipper! (role for some bloggers)
and why wear three pair of socks while on the d.l.? and are these mizuno socks and are there at least 6 - maybe 12 - mizuno emblems on these socks?
and lastly, why not get escobar to help with the removal of the socks? escobar seems to be filling in nicely in all other areas for chipper jones.
and now, slings and arrows coming this journalist’s way …
By 22oz
June 6, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
I keep reading comments about Francouer looking and admitting to looking tired. Is it a sin to give him a day off? Or does he have aspirations of being the next iron man? I know Bobby says he wants to play every day, but I’m pretty sure Diaz, Kelly, and Willie C. do too. Is the “golden boy” controling the manager?
By Lew
June 6, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Checking the schedule and comparing it to the standings can be an interesting exercise, sometimes. The teams we play in the near future and our division over the past ten games-Cubs (3-7), Indians 6-4), Tigers (3-7), Twins (5-5), Phillies (5-5), Mets (6-4), Marlins (6-4), Nats (3-7). Braves are 5-5. Apparently no one is playing at a very high level except the Red Sox. Maybe this won’t be such a terrible time to be missing our best hitter-when everyone is mediocre. Now many here are lamenting how terrible the Braves have been. It just isn’t so. We’ve been mediocre-just like a good bit of the rest of baseball. The only teams playing well are in the NL West, which we don’t play for some time-plenty of tie to get Chipper back. I wish we would wither sign Andruw, tell him we’re going to, or figure something else to get him going. I’m even fed up with him destroying my fantasy team. I just know the minute I drop him he’ll go on a tear. Maybe I should take one for the Braves.
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Ron…in response to your 8:59, I totally agree. I have agreed with you for a week or so that Salty, while ready offensively, (see yesterday) he needs to get, at least, a few weeks of everyday play at 1B in AAA. Then, if Thorman is still in a funk, bring him up. Pena will already be here backing up, so the odd man out would either be Thorman (via trade) or Woodward (via release). What do you think?
By geauxbraves2000
June 6, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
Davies and James are so streaky, you just never know what you are going to get from them. A one hit shutout or 10ER by the 3rd.
I agree Efrim, the Braves need to get a reliable starter, hopefully sooner rather than later. However, not at the expense of Salty or Escobar I hope.
I just don’t know who is out there and available, if anyone. Not that the Cubs would part w/Z, but I don’t think I’d want him on the Braves, he’s too much of a headcase, can’t contol his emotions. SP is quite a hot commodity.
Geaux Braves!!
By Fred from CT
June 6, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
Add the Braves and A’s to the list of teams interested in free-agent reliever Troy Percival. this is from ken rosenthal of foxsports
By BravesFanInRockies
June 6, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
Rally Monkey,
Appreciate the props.
Shaun,
Any idea how many pitches Thorman is seeing in the typical AB? I have to listen to most of the games on XM (damn you, Mountain time!) but it seems that he swings at the first or second pitch a lot, especially when he makes those infuriating outs. Which means that opposing pitching coaches can get Thorman out pretty easily by never throwing him a hittable pitch.
Some guys never adjust. Franceouer has shown some improvement at that this season. LaRoche did as well (though I can’t remember him ever being such a clueless hacker at any point in his career). Even Klesko, whose swing is a lot like Thorman’s, knew the difference between a pitch near the strike zone and one that’s headed to the on-deck circle.
I’m not sure how you can force a guy to be more patient, other than fining him or benching him. And because Thorman hacks away, he’s a black hole in this offense right now.
Bailey and Ron,
Agree. Could be the best idea of all would be to send Salty to the minors and play everyday at 1B for a few weeks. Don’t think Woodward will be let go, however. He can play all four IF positions and LF/RF in a pinch. He’s valuable enough to keep as a bench player. The problem is, he’s often the best option available on any given day to start. That’s scary.
By Efrim
June 6, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
Fred from CT
Yea the Braves are definetly in the hunt for another middle reliever. Otsuka wouldn’t be that pricy in terms of prospects, although SO MANY teams are looking for help.
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
Bob: I suppose the issue I have is the mere fact that one can recognize the difference in usage and definative meaning, yet still be compelled to take some self righteous high road and lecture a person for using a term in a way it was never used. And in so doing, hide behind a different screen name while lecturing from a personal perspective.
By Fred from CT
June 6, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
percival wouldn’t cost any prospects at all just money.
By Lee
June 6, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
Lew
You are right about no teams playing well except the N.L. West. But if this rate continues the Wild Card will eventually come out of that division also. The Braves cannot continue to play 500 ball from here on out and expect to make it to the playoffs.
Francouer looks tired, McCann and Johnson look lost, Chipper is lost for time being and Thorman looks pathetic. All in all take away Escobar and Salty of late and this team looks boring and it has actually been a little hard to watch the Braves play from beginning to end lately.
By Bubbaallred
June 6, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
Has anyone noticed that if you take away the 7-1 start for the Bravos, we have a glorious record of 26-25. One freaking game over 500. I am losing faith in these boys, we have got to get some consistency going.
If you take away those same 8 games from the Phillies (their 2-6 start) they have a record of 27-23. I think we are about four players short of the playoffs at this point, and one of them is Andruw Jones.
By ncscoots
June 6, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this
All the current flaws in the team mentioned by all the posters on the blog are true, true, true…half the order is pressing, the pitching has been previously been inconsistent, injuries have been a factor, Bobby can’t pick a lineup :-), JS can’t pull the trigger on a trade, all true, true, true. The team is in shambles, and can only play out the string of 100 or so games, no hope of playoffs, let alone the division. Yet…the Mets have not been able to pull away, with an obvious opportunity to do so.
Is it so inconceivable that the current state of the Braves is not foretold to be the future state? As sure as grass grows green, most players who slump also surge. And the team overall with them.
Is it the temper of the blog that the same players extolled at some other point in time have now lost all hope of once again producing the performance for which they were previously praised? That they are doomed to mediocrity, regardless? That September is surely only going to be May redux? That failure is a given future, once failing at all?
Ah, well. The future be shrouded in mist, and only today seems clear. Guess I can’t blame folks for walking with heads down and seeing only the few steps ahead. I prefer to look down the street, see the pendulum swinging back, and the Braves surging. The future.
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
Rockies - Who else wouold you let go? Your Bench would have:
C - Pena
1B/LF - Thorman
IF - Orr (Coaches Pet)
OF - Diaz/Harris (also IF)
IF - Escobar
Who is the odd man out in that senario??
By Efrim
June 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
Fred from CT
But he is like 100 years old and was a 1 pitch reliever 5 years ago. His fastball is now down to 88- 90 mph. I would rather give up prospects to acquire a guy like Otsuka and keep him away from a team like the Phillies.
By Renegator
June 6, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
I think the problem with this team right now is that they aren’t hitting the HRs. We have always said that this team is built for the 3-run HR. Well, our hitter with the most HRs (12) is on the DL and Francouer, McCann, and Andruw just aren’t hitting them this year. If we are built for HRs and aren’t getting them - guess what? We are going to lose games.
I think that with players like Kelly Johnson, Willy Harris, Matt Diaz, Renteria - this team actually sets up quite well for “small ball” right now. Maybe we should try that - oh yeah, Bobby is our manager - nevermind.
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies,
Of the Braves with over 100 AB, only Diaz has seen less pitcher per plate appearance. (Doesn’t seem to be a problem for Diaz because he doesn’t strikeout.)
If you don’t walk, you better not strikeout because there aren’t many ways to get on base besides hits and walks.
I’m more concerned with Thorman’s lack of walks than with his strikeouts. His power is fine and he’s been unlucky with contact (his balls are finding gloves instead of holes). Eventually his balls in play will start finding more holes but he needs to do more than that to get on base enough to be a productive big leaguer.
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
Has there been some mention of signing Andruw? I saw Eric the Elder allude to it the other day. Where is this coming from?
By BravesFanInRockies
June 6, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
Bailey,
Orr has options. I would send him down. Woodward also has a bigger contract, and can fill in at more positions.
Of course, Bobby has a hard head. So it may not happen.
By flange1
June 6, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
To all of the naysayers out there,
During the run of playoff teams, we had lots of good and some great teams. At one time we had a larger payroll and the new faces that arrived to the team were usually experienced veterans. The teams usually had a strong nucleus of Braves vets and FA vets with a smatering of younger talent. These teams usually were set coming out of spring training. Everyone knew their role and sometimes a guy slumped and was replaced by a guy that was streaking.
As our payroll has shrunk, we have shyed away from FA palyers and begun to bring up minor leaguers ti fill the void. Because of that change, when the team braks spring training, they do not have set roles, and positions are still in flux. We have seen alot of that this year with the injuries to Hampton, Gonzo, Chipper, Cormier etc and the releasing of Langerhans, Wilson and Redman. I think JS and Bobby are still working with the the coaching staff to determine the best mix of players and who should fill each role. The Braves are still a work in progress. This was exactly like the Astros were a couple of years back and the Cardinals were last year.
We are still close the the division lead and the wild card right now and the team has not jelled yet. I think we will see a few more tweaks from JS and the team will start to play together and we will start winning.
Don’t get so down when it is still early. And yes I believe that we can and will play better especially after the all star break.
and by the way, JJS, the Chipper socks thing was a gas!
By DonCoburleone
June 6, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
Everyone just chill… Our best hitter is out and has been for some time. One of our “big 3” in the bullpen has been gone for a couple of weeks now and ain’t coming back… Our pitching staff is performing to this point about where I thought they would (Smoltz is Smoltz, Hudson is going back to the form he showed in ‘05 - which is still a good #2, James is simply not a #3 starter but has pitched relatively well in that spot, and Davies has been a HUGE surprise in my opinion). Bottom line is that when Chipper is 99.9% healthy again (he can never get to 100%) and the Braves have their #3 starter via trade, Atlanta will have enough to not only compete for the wild card, but also the division… Remember guys, turn last years June record into 16-13 instead of 6-23 and we would have made the playoffs. And in my opinion, last years team is not as good as this years….
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
Renegator,
The best offenses are the ones that get on base most and hit the ball the hardest. If you don’t do those things well, you aren’t going to put a lot of runs on the scoreboard. Those are really the only things that are going to put runs on the scoreboard.
The Braves have been hitting the ball hard enough but they have not been getting on base enough.
By kinley
June 6, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
Speaking of losing games because of the lack of home runs, it’s hard to expect real consistency when your lineup is power-laden and strikeout-heavy in a park that’s really one of the better pitchers’ parks in the NL — especially when the rotation has two question marks at the back end.
It’s great to have guys who can hit bombs, but why not build a team that’s conducive to winning in the ballpark in which you play half your games?
On a side note, I love both Escobar and Salty, but one of them has to go so we can shore up our starting rotation. Escobar is more valuable to us given Chipper’s injury history, so I say it should be Salty. I’d rather have another proven arm in the rotation than a menial upgrade at first.
By Renegator
June 6, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
Why are the Braves still looking for middle relief? That is like the third, maybe fourth biggest problem with this team.
And what about Tanyan Sturtze? Seems like that was a wasted signing. How much are we paying this guy to not pitch?
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
From Keith Law’s latest blog:
The Braves are now hoping [North Carolina high school LHP Madison] Bumgarner slips by the Marlins and is there at No. 14. Josh Smoker’s reduced velocity in his last few outings has caused them to reconsider taking him so high, although he might still end up in Atlanta in the sandwich round.
By AthensBrave
June 6, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
Maybe we need an emotional pitcher like Zambrano to light a fire under this team. We’re playing bored and half-a*
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
Spot on scoots. I mentioned similar the other day. With all the weeping and gnashing of teeth, we are only 3.5 games back. To read some of these posts one would get the impression we are 25 games out and sinking further. Thor is obviously in a slump, but the man is a hustler. A hard worker. He should come around. I only advocate Salty at 1B because the guy is incredible. But either one on a good day would do the trick. The lone constant of suckiness is AJ at the plate. That guy has to heat up sooner or later. I can’t believe he’s finished at 30. But he has been more of a rally killer than rally maker so far this season. Once he and Chipper are in the line up and on fire we should take off. I would have liked this to come against the AL. Despite those teams 10 game records, they are still good teams with the skill enough to sweep anyone they come across.
Perhaps all this 500 play is a sign of the evening out of talent. Even the Yankees suck this year. It happens.
By Lew
June 6, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Lee-I see your point, but despite the less than stellar performance, we have simply been average-not terrible as many here think. When your best players (Chipper and Andruw) are either out altogether or sucking horrendously and you’re still playing .500 ball, even with injuries galore and a starting staff that is constantly maligned, then I refuse to be pessimistic. Chipper will return and has proved numerous times in the past, he will come back strong. Andruw has to get better. McCann and Francoeur are not sucking, though not at full force and Davies, Carlyle and James have exhibited flashes of brilliance themselves. Like yesterday, for example. Yes, losing the second game was not fun, but Carlyle pitched great, Smoltz looked like he will not miss time (all things considered, he looked excellent), Boyer Soriano and Wickman all looked good and we still gained a half game on the Mets. I prefer to go with the glass half full evaluation. I see the Braves right now as treading water until all the pieces are running like a well oiled machine. As usual I stress patience (of course with an eye towards any potential starter availability). Wouldn’t mind seeing Woodward go, though. Let him take yesterday’s PH HR as a fond last memory. Send Salty down for a couple of weeks to get first base defense together, then bring him up and let his career begin in earnest.
By Braveheart
June 6, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
Shaun, I do have to disagree with your statistic that the average when a hitters hit a ball into play is only .290.
Here are the actual numbers since the turn of the century for the National League:
2007: .318; 31611 at bats; 8141 hits; 6078 Ks
2006: .329; 88844 at bats; 23501 hits; 17426 Ks
2005: .324; 88120 ABs; 23058 Hs; 16880 Ks
2004: .326; 88622 ABs; 23271 Hs; 17299 Ks
2003: .324; 88426 ABs; 23126 Hs; 16966 Ks
2002: .322; 87794 ABs; 22753 Hs; 17161 Ks
2001: .328; 88100 ABs; 23027 Hs; 17908 Ks
2000: .330; 88743 ABs’ 23594 Hs; 17344 Ks
Thorman in his career is hitting .277 when he does not strike out. 290 ABs; 65 Hits; 55 Ks. He is hitting .273 this year when he does not strike out; 162 ABs; 35 hits; 34 Ks.
Surely, maybe some hits are gonna start falling to bring him up to average. Or maybe he hits for a lower average because even when he hits it, he does not get a good piece of the ball and hits little soft flubbers or fly balls or soft grounders. It’s kind of like Mariano Rivera or Greg Maddux. They do not really strike out all that many hitters but no one really gets a good piece of wood on their pitches. Surely, many a hitter said that with as much contact as we are making, surely our average on balls in play is going to come up to average. But it never really does because Maddux and Rivera never let anyone get a good piece of wood on the ball. The same could be true for Thorman. His average may never go up. He may just be a .276 hitter when he actually makes contact because he does not get a good piece of wood on the ball. Or maybe he will go back to being the type of hitter he was in the minors who did not strike out all that much and who hit .340 when he actually put the ball into play.
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
The Yankees suck this year, so far, because they signed a lot of washed-up has-beens and one-year wonders to pitch for them a couple of years ago, all the good pitchers went to other teams and they haven’t developed any of their own.
By DonCoburleone
June 6, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
Lets try and think about this realistically for a minute… Now, I say there is no way at this point that Salty or Thorman will be traded during this season. Cox does not and will not have enough faith in Salty at 1B all by himself this season. So for that reason, the Braves will keep Thorman for the remainder of this year. I also don’t think Salty will get traded because he is so young and talented and CHEAP (for the next 4 years at least)… So, what does that leave - I think it leaves Escobar and possibly a Tyler Yates as trade bait (along with the majority of our other minor league prospects)… What could we get for that? It’s tough to say, but I think a combination of Escobar, Yates, and a B level prospect could get us Mark Buehrle. Reminder to those of you who are going to slam this trade idea - ITS REALISTIC! Every contending team in the league (almost) is going to be looking for starting pitching and guess what, thats the kind of price we’ll have to pay for the best available pitcher (even if it is just a 2-3 month rental). (Injury Proned) Harden is probably a possibility but I guarantee you Billy Beane won’t even talk to JS if he knows he can’t get Saltalamacchia. So thats what it is, Buehrle for Escobar, Yates, and a B level prospect… DO YOU MAKE THE TRADE?
By JasonInMaine
June 6, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
Today’s lineup:
Johnson 2B Escobar 3B Francoeur RF Andruw CF Diaz LF Salty C Woodward SS Thorman 1B Davies P
Holy cow! I don’t know if we can win with this lineup or not. Hopefully Davies is on.
By Renegator
June 6, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
Woodward starting at short today… Bobby is putting the B-squad in so we can lose 3 of 4 to another division rival.
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
kinley…I’m sorry to say that is not the answer. We have guys that can fill in for Chipper. Not good ones, but guys that CAN do it. We have no other Saltalamacchia. He is a swith hitting, power guy like Texiera. He would be better suited for 1B than catcher because he could play everyday. DO NOT TRADE HIM!!
By David O'Brien
June 6, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Yikes, what a lineup today:
McCann turned his right ankle hitting in first at-bat of nightcap Tuesday, same ankle he sprained so badly last year. But Bobby said he could play and expects him back in lineup Thursday.
Renteria just getting a day off.
I’ll get a new blog up around game time.
By Lee
June 6, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
The key involving trading either Escobar or Salty or even sending Salty back to the minors for first base drilling all evolves around Chipper’s health and when he is coming back. To be honest I don’t see one trade being made or anyone being sent to the minors until Chipper is back at full force.
By Lew
June 6, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
Lee-One more thing. I direct this at you merely because you mentioned it in your post-not ragging on you. Why give up on the division? We’re only 3 1/2 games behind the “Mighty” Mets, who are hardly playing inspired ball right now and have overachieved for the first two months (they’re now falling back to earth-the bullpen sucked last night). We have beaten them like a drum and still have 9 games left with them. I simply can’t understand why people on this blog are worried about not making the Wild Card. It’s barely past the 1/3 point of the season. We’re within whispering (not even shouting) distance of our major competition, with plenty of head to head games left. Even with damn near everything going against us, we’re still playing .500. I’m not ready to concede the division at this early point in the season. It is WAY too early to even talk about the WC.
By eric the elder
June 6, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
10Paul, yes I did mention a signing of Andruw soon, but I was only reporting what IJ Rosenberg said. I was hoping that DOB would give IJ a call and find out what his sources are.
I will say again that signing Andruw could spell Salty’s doom because then money would not be available to boost the rotation and so Salty gets traded. Hypothetical, I know, but it gives me shivers. We MUST keep that guy.
I say let Andruw go and let’s give the team a new look.
By ernesto
June 6, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
Woodward batting ahead of Thorman?
Woodward ahead of Davies?
By Lee
June 6, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
Starting Woodward today - now that he hit that homer yesterday we will be stuck with him all year. That was one home the Braves could have done without. They would have won 2-1 anyway. That clown needs to go
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Most don’t factor in homeruns when looking at BABIP. This could be the discrepancy. The purpose of BABIP is to determine who’s benefiting/suffering from defense or luck. I guess the idea is that a homerun is non-defensible and is more a product of ability to hit the ball hard than it is defense or luck.
It seems Scott Thorman is suffering from either exceptional defenses that know where to play him or bad luck. He’s certainly hitting the ball hard enough (his slugging percentage taking singles out of the equation is better than Francouer’s and McCann’s and is better than the team’s average).
By eric the elder
June 6, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
DonC, good analysis, but if you are really looking for a reply, I would not make that trade. Hampton has made me gun shy, perhaps.
Escobar might or might not be the real thing, but I have a sinking feeling that we will see Chipper retire before Smoltz does.
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
Payne: OH I didn’t realize that. I had fallen asleep that last few years when the Yanks signed Wright, Farnsworthless, Pavano, traded for Weaver, then Brown and so on. They had shoddy pitching last season but a monster offense and got to the post season. The Yankees suck because they handed out long term deals to over 30 position players and long term deals to average to below average pitchers. It was bound to catch up to them. But they still have a lot of talent. They still suck. I only mention them because it pleases me to watch them suck so bad. I don’t like Boston, but I’d love for them to knock the Yanks off the Division title streak. It only protects the Atlanta streak. Once the Yanks are off theres, the Atlanta streak is safe for many many years.
By Lew
June 6, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
FLBravesFan-A point for you, too. You mention Thorman’s terrible stats and the fact that he’s had over 400 AB’s at the ML level. You cite these stats by way of saying Thorman’s had enough time and has proven he will never be better. How about Willie Harris? The Dude had 900 AB in the bigs before this season, with a career BA of .238. All of a sudden he’s hitting over .400 and now people think him the second coming of Ted Williams, clamoring for him to play every game. That’s more than twice the number of Ab’s than Thorman has. Thorman has been making good contact and hitting the ball right at people. I still think he has much more potential than Mr. Harris does. He’s a young kid. You have to have patience and let hi work it out before you dump him under the oncoming truck.
By BravesFanInRockies
June 6, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Welcome back, DOB.
I’ve drunk the Salty Kool-aid too (ecch), still I can understand why organizations would hate to ask a kid with his unique ability to change positions just to plug what might be a temporary hole in the roster.
Even so, I can’t see the downside of giving Salty time at first IF the Braves would prefer to keep him rather than trade him. If he’s trade bait for a SP, he should probably be catching 2-3 times a week. (The team seems to lose little offensively or defensively when he’s behind the plate.) If not, it would not damage his career to learn 1B and continue to catch part-time.
(As an aside, I remember seeing the R-Braves play in 1993/4 when Klesko was so far in the doghouse for his play at first that he was warming up pitchers in the bullpen! A lefty! That one stuck with me.)
Seems like the Braves’ problem is that they have an abundance of outfielders and catchers and middle infielders and no Plan B if Thorman can’t produce at first and Chipper’s out for an extended period.
How to fix? That’s why we blog …
By Braveheart
June 6, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Okay, Shaun, thanks for explaining the BABIP thing. I was confused about that. Sort of makes sense.
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
BABIP is used to spot fluke seasons, especially by pitchers and often by hitters because not much separates a contact out from a contact hit that is not crushed, at least as far as pitcher and hitter are concerned.
By BravesFanInRockies
June 6, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Yes, bat Woodward ahead of Thorman. He’s not as awful …
By Lee
June 6, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
Lew -
Not giving up on the division crown. Just like the thought of keeping the Wild Card as an ace to have if all else fails - that’s all. Wild Card = World Series champs also.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
June 6, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
What’s wrong with that line-up folks? Who needs Renteria, Chipper, or McCann when we’ve got Davies in the 9-hole. That dude can rake. ; -)
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
I agree. Wasn’t trying to start an argument. Just trying to jump in to the discussion.
I think the Yankees possibly not making the post-season should give Cox and Schuerholz more of the recognition they deserve (not that people don’t realize how great they’ve been).
The Yankees can’t keep a streak like that going even though they are the richest team playing at a time when payroll disparity is high.
By MGL
June 6, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
Cabrera not playing today. That’s a break.
By JasonInMaine
June 6, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
DonC,
Yes, I make that trade. I like Escobar and think he is going to be a good player. But, this team will only go as far as its starting pitching will take it. Buerhle would be a great addition and has been in the playoffs.
Regards,
Jason
By fastasballs
June 6, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
I like the line up, anything to shake things up is good. I’d rather have Woodward in than Orr.
The running game of the Marlins won’t be a big factor with Salty behind the plate. I’m not sure how well Salty calls a game but as far as arm strength, throw accuracy & defense I’ll take Salty over McCann.
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone
Yes, make the trade…ONLY if we could negotiate an extension before the trade. Getting Buehrle on loan for Escobar is not a good idea.
By blueridge
June 6, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
I am curious why Buddy Hernandez has not been given another shot. I realize that he was out all of last year with a forearm injury, but he has proven to be lights-out so far this season. His strike out to walk ratio has always been amazing. Any thoughts as to why the front office is hesitant?
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Okay, I’ll stop soon, but one more thing about BABIP that is interesting—the classic example of BABIP spotting a fluke season:
Mark Fidrych went 19-9 with a 2.34 ERA in 1976. Many thought he was the next big thing. But he only struck out 97 batters in 250-plus innings. He was able to have a good season because his BABIP was .250.
When he struggled the next season some people thought is was primarily because of injuries or something else. But actually he wasn’t that good to begin with. He just benefited from some good luck.
By Lew
June 6, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Lee-You’re absolutely right, but it’s WAY too early to even think Wild Card. Let’s hold off on that until August or so. We can still win this division. The Mets are not the 27 Yankees. Their fans just think so.
By Braveheart
June 6, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
not much separates a contact out from a contact hit that is not crushed, at least as far as pitcher and hitter are concerned.
I think Mariano Rivera knows exactly what you are talking about with regard to fluky luck and the thin line between a hit and an out if you look at the ninth inning of Game 7 of the 2001 World Series where the DBacks barely got the ball out of the infield and still managed to rally against him.
By Bob, Journalist
June 6, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
10Paul, now why couldn’t I have said that?!
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Okay, I lied. A recent example of good luck plaguing the Braves—Dan Kolb, one of JS’s few errors in judgment.
Kolb posted a 2.98 ERA and saved 39 games with Milwaukee in 2004 but JS should have been suspicious. He only struck out 21 batters and his BABIP was only .246.
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Hey!!
Here’s an idea
Lets trade Andruw, Escobar, and James to NYY for A-Rod.
Then we trade Edgar and Davies for a veteran CF (Griffey Jr.) that we can replace in a year or two with a young guy.
YOUR NEW BRAVES LINE-UP:
Johnson (2B)
Harris (LF)
Griffey Jr. (CF)
A-Rod (SS)
Chipper (3B)
Francoeur (RF)
Salty (1B)
McCann (C)
IT COULD HAPPEN, right???
By JasonInMaine
June 6, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Who ends the day with a higher batting average between Thor and Davies? (:
By Lee
June 6, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Bailey -
A.J. would block that trade anyway. He is not that stupid. The Yankees fans would have his head on a platter with his slumps. Jones could not handled Yankee fan pressure. It has been mentioned on this blog those fans are not the same as Braves fans.
By rehydration engineer
June 6, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
yeah mgl, cabrera not playing but his replacement in the 4th spot still got it done- willingham 2 run double
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Bailey and DonCoburleone,
Why would you trade a good, young player for an expensive veteran that may improve your team minimally?
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Lee,
They are going to get Andruw anyway, cause they will pony up the most money. They will probably trade A-Rod, too. He will opt out at the end of the year, and they will want to get something for him.
By thats_reality
June 6, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
geeze, these guys have to start hitting. the marlins have gotten the best of us this year. we’ve won 1 of 3. hudson, carlyle and smoltz….who would’ve thought the game we would’ve won would’ve been carlyle’s? the schedule is torturous until the break. if we’re within 3-5 games of the mets or wildcard come the break, i think we’ll be good. its possible to have this june turn out like last year tho. has anyone noticed how pitchers with high era’s, guys the rest of the league seem to beat up on usually comes in and shuts down atl? perhaps we need a new batting coach or maybe we need better scouting reports. it always seems to happen.
By Ken Griffey Jr
June 6, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Dear Baily, thanks for wanting me, but I am very very old and can not even play CF for the Reds.
Thanks again for keeping me in your thoughts.
Your pal, jr.
By Shaun
June 6, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
Bailey,
You think the Yankees will be able to trade ARod? Who’s going to give them what he’s worth and take even a portion of that salary? And why would the Yankees trade a player like ARod for a lot less value and still pay a large portion of his salary? Ain’t gonna happen.
By thats_reality
June 6, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
ya, i can see this now. meeting on the mound….lets pitch to this thorman guy and not take our chances with davies! how pathetic is it that your 1st basemans avg is around your 5th pitchers? not saying that any MLB position is easy but 1st but be the easiest. this is where poor fielders or older guys wind up. we have to do something with thorman. perhaps sending him down until after the break will straighten him out.
By David O'Brien
June 6, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG IS UP
By TennesseePaul
June 6, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
When does this game start? It’s listed as 1:05, but we’re missing that time by at least 30. Is this a 2pm game?
By Bailey
June 6, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
EVERYONE
First of all…I was kidding. I know AJ wouldn’t let it happen, and I know JS wouldn’t take on a portion of his salary.
Second…A-Rod will get traded if the Yankees think he will opt out. Why would you not get rid of him and get something in return?
The whole idea was just a thought. The A-Rod thing could happen, though…just not to us.
By Renegator
June 6, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Braves on their way to losing 3 of 4 to another division rival. This team can’t beat anyone but the Muts…
By JasonInMaine
June 6, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
Well, it appears the Braves are picking up right where they left off. 4 runners stranded through 2. Davies has a rough first inning…shocker.
Will this team ever blow anyone out again so us fans can enjoy the game? (:
Man, we need to start getting those key 2 out hits again!
Regards,
Jason
By Mountain Man
June 8, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
Chipper reminds me of Bob Horner. When he plays he’s a real asset, but is always complaining with some type of injury. Let’s see, sprained oblique, bruised hand, sprained eyelash and sore haircut.