AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > June > 04 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USScouting the draft
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
It’s amateur draft week, which means somewhere Braves scouting director Roy Clark is walking around red-eyed. I know this because I’ve seen him on many a draft day, and it always looks like he hasn’t slept in a while - like a college kid the week of finals.
But he’ll still be chipper and pleasant as ever - hate to say nice things about a Tar Heel, but I will in Roy’s case - because that’s how he always is. I know it’s getting close to show time because I just tried to call him on his cell phone and got no answer. Roy usually answers.
I also tried Kurt Kemp, director of player development, and was told by an assistant in the minor league office Chris Rice “He’s down in the draft room.”
I’ve never been in the draft room, but I picture it being cave-like with cinderblock walls, no windows, a giant chalkboard (what do you call those kind you write with magic markers? White boards?), four or five telephones spaced out on a boardroom table, and two pots of coffee, tag team bubbling on a table off to the side, so there is caffeinated-only available at all times.
Am I right?
Hard to tell, scouts are busy at work. Not answering the phone.
So we are left to ponder the draft on our own for a few minutes. I just had a look back at the Braves top draft picks over the last 20 drafts, going back to 1987. You wanna guess how many are looking like they were great picks? I see four.
I’m going to pause here, if you want to take time to guess. Pause, pause, pause.
Long pause.
OK, it’s:
1988 Steve Avery
1990 Chipper Jones
2000 Adam Wainwright
2002 Jeff Francoeur
Three of the four should be self-explanatory. And the fourth? Wainwright counts as a guy I bet the Braves probably wish they had back right now. They traded him to the Cardinals in the deal for J.D. Drew, a one-year rental. Worth it? Not so sure. That’s also when they parted with Jason Marquis. That’s not looking that great at the moment either.
Wainwright was stellar as a last-minute closer in the World Series last year. He’s had a so-so go so far in the St. Louis rotation this season, but with the way things are going in the Braves rotation at the moment, they could surely use him. And let’s see how his career plays out.
Anyway, the Braves won the division in 2003 and that’s what they were going for, so they have their arguments to make on that deal.
Part of drafting well is getting good trade material. It doesn’t mean you should keep everybody you draft. Having Wainwright to trade for a high caliber free agent should say something too. And that fact - wanting trade fodder - is something else that makes baseball different from the NFL and NBA.
OK, wait…..just got a call back from Kemp. And we have a few points of clarification on what the draft room looks like.
“Huge, big war room. Table, computers, big screen, enough food to sustain everybody for 10 or 12 days. It’s an information center (to access) about a year’s worth of work in 10-12 days’ span. You have everything at your disposal, from reports to video.”
How could I have forgotten the computers in the draft room? I should be ashamed. I think I was right about the cinderblocks though. It’s in a room on the service level of Turner Field, same level as the clubhouses and the tunnel and little golf-carts that go whizzing by at 40 mph.
Anyway, the draft room is buzzing with possibilities as the Braves have four picks in the top 80, including 14th overall. Fourteenth is the Braves highest first round pick in at least 15 years. Not winning the division has one advantage.
And as compensation for free agent Danys Baez (signed by the Orioles), the Braves also get a supplemental first round pick at No. 33 and a second round pick at 69. The Braves also have their normal second round pick at No. 78.
Their goals as they prepare to draft? “Best available player,” Kemp summarized.
With baseball players typically years away from being ready for the majors, teams usually don’t really go on a need-based proposition. That’s probably how the Braves and other teams sometimes end up with their best prospects - Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Yunel Escobar - at positions that are locked up at the moment. But that’s just the nature of the beast.
But how about, just for fun, folks, get out the wish list. What do you want? What kind of player would you like to see the Braves draft?
You’ve got three days for your voices to be heard. As we know now (aha) the Braves scouting staff has computers in the war room. They’ll be quarantined down there until Thursday when Kemp, Paul Snyder and Ralph Garr head to Orlando for the first and supplemental rounds to be televised by ESPN2. Surely they read our esteemed blog.
And before I forget, here’s a list of the Braves top draft picks of the last 20 years.
1987 P Derek Lilliquist
1988 P Steve Avery
1989 C Tyler Houston
1990 SS Chipper Jones
1991 OF Mike Kelly
1992 P Jamie Arnold
1993 OF Andre King*
1994 P Jacob Shumate
1995 P Chad Hutchinson **
1996 1B A.J. Zapp
1997 SS Troy Cameron
1998 P Matt Belisle*
1999 P Mattheaus Butler*
2000 P Adam Wainwright
2001 P Macay McBride
2002 OF Jeff Francoeur
2003 P Luis Atilano
2004 3B Eric Campbell*
2005 P Joey Devine
2006 OF John Johnson
*second round picks, Braves had given up first round picks as compensation for free agents
**did not sign
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Comments
By LL
June 4, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Pitching please….more pitching.
By "Enter" key
June 4, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Hello. What happened between us Carroll?
By rupert
June 4, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
there is a deal brewing between the braves and astros involving lidge… seemingly a replacement for gonzalez, also, look for buddy carlyle’s next start to be a big factor in cormier’s future, he’s got options, carlyle does not….
By Bigboi
June 4, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
Am I the first one on the blog?
By brent a.
June 4, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
I don’t care who they draft, so long as they don’t pull another “Joey Devine” with their top pick.
Go Braves!
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
A speedly left handed pitcher with amazing stuff who can hit .300 would check a lot of boxes.
By Renegator
June 4, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
Matt Belisle (98) is having a decent year with the Reds. We could really use him this year too.
By Mel Kiper's Hair
June 4, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
The outfield depth in the minor leagues right now could use a boost. The Heyward kid from Georgia would be a great find if he fell to us at 14. That kind of athletic, left handed outfielder would look great next to Francoeur in 5 years. A power arm would be nice, too, but I doubt they’ll want to pay for one because the only ones that could fall to them would fall because of signability issues. I know they like the LHP from GA named Smoker, but he could be a reach at 14 and may not be there at 33. Soo…how about best player available with a nice high ceiling?
By Brando
June 4, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Draft that Heyward kid in the first round. Then go after pitching.
By will
June 4, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this
I agree with LL…pitching, pitching and more pitching!
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
Stop with all the Brad Lidge talk… We’ve got our own Lidge, his name is Tyler Yates. The Braves need a left handed reliever, not another hard-throwin’ righty… The guy we should be really looking long and hard at is Fuentes from Colorado, I bet we could get him in July for Escobar…. That said, I still don’t think the Braves are going to do anything with their bullpen but will do something with their starting pitching. How about this scenario: Sturtze comes back healthy before the break and gives us the depth in the pen we need to trade either Yates or Moylan packaged with Escobar for a middle of the rotation starter?
By Bailey
June 4, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
Is Mark in here, yet?
By 22oz
June 4, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
The “white chalk board” is called a dry erase board, CR. We need pitching, and to be lucky. Maybe an Andrew Miller-type who’s not too far away is still available?
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
Not signing Chad Hutchinson turned out to be a pretty good move.
And you’ve got to like the A.J. Zapp signing just for the name.
By Mel Kiper's Hair
June 4, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
Last years first round pick is named Cody Johnson…not Josh Johnson. He’s hitting like Josh Johnson, though(the Marlins pitcher that is) which isn’t necessarily good considering he’s a 1B/OF.
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Since the draft is on ESPN, it has clearly created a new opening for the “Mel Kiper” of baseball drafts… Maybe I will send in my application…
By BamaBrave
June 4, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
We need starters…not a possible bullpen burnout like Lidge. I sure hope this rumor is false.
By MH
June 4, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
Any chance the Braves will take the Kentucky Gatorade Player of the year, Ben Revere.
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
NY Mets past few years #1 picks - Pelfrey, Humber, Milledge, Kazmir, Heillman.
See it’s not just about us having way more money, we’re better at drafting too.
and don’t forget the history lesson of - Strawberry, Gooden, Preston Wilson, Burnitz, Mazzilli, Wally Backman
I could go on and on
By Mark
June 4, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Bailey…sorry they changed postings. I would not trade Salty, Soriano, or Escobar as some have suggested. I’m thinking 2-3 solid minor guys. Maybe they will take Thorman, Orr, and Woodward…lol. At most maybe Thorman and a couple minor leag guys???
By erik
June 4, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
Pitching, Pitching and more Pitching.
And some outfielders, too.
By BamaBrave
June 4, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
That pic of Andre King is classic. He looks like one of the Turner Field parking lot guys.
By Amber
June 4, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
Don, you reminded me - what is the latest on Sturtze anyway? Nearly fogot about him there.
By Bailey
June 4, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
Does anyone think that we will go after Glavine with the money we save from not resigning Andruw??
By Bailey
June 4, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
Mark…The one glaring need Texas has needed for years has been pitching…any and all kinds of it. We could include Thorman, Davies or Harrison (maybe), and (we might could sell them on) Joey Devine. However, I still dont think that will be enough. We would probably have to add another quality arm to that. n our wildest dreams I dont think they would think about taking on Hampton…nevermind…just heard that coming out and it was just as stupid as it sounded in my head.
By Efrim
June 4, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this
Draft
I’m sure everyone wants pitching. as do I, but we really need a outfielder in this draft. Jordan Shafer is the only one in our system worth anything. Blanco doesn’t count, he is a fourth outfielder in the bigs. Melky Cabrera like. RHP is what we need in this draft. We have tons of lefties, we need some solid right handers. Thomas Hanson and Jamie Richmond are the only gems in the system.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this
DonC, Braves are rumored to have already taken a run at Fuentes, offseason a year ago, as I remember. Can’t remember what the Rockies were thought to have wanted, but it was a lot more than a prospect. Course (again, as I remember and strictly rumor), Braves wanted Holliday thrown in the package, too, so I can see why THAT deal would have died aborning.
By JasonInMaine
June 4, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Find us a power pitcher!!! We need a couple of good power arms.
By BamaBrave
June 4, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
Ugh…Glavine is not worth it. It’s 2007, not 1997. I’d rather see us spend money on a Jason Jennings or Jake Westbrook type.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this
Mets rule makes a good point:
When you’re picking 9th every year, even the Muts couldn’t screw it up.
By Mark
June 4, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
Bailey…I’m not sure that we will go after Glavine. From what I’ve heard from Braves camp it sounds like they WILL re-sign Andruw. I have a buddy that works in the player development office that says that the plan to re-sign Andruw???We will see. I agree that Texas needs arms. They have the worst record and baseball and I would put the HOUSE that they will trade MT. Hopefully JS will pull a trade that fills our holes. We need a solid starting pitcher and a 1st baseman.
By The Grinch
June 4, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
Pitching and outfielders.
Bailey, no.
Hillbilly, I’m with you. There’s hardly a reason for me to watch this season now (Sopranos, not Braves).
By Coach
June 4, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Pitching is always the most valuable commodity a team can have. The Braves seem to be making an effort to draft local talent in the last few drafts and it seems to be working. Best athlete or best pitcher with the 14th pick , tough choice. No wonder that Roy Clark is running short on sleep. Nevertheless , I think the man is a genius and he will get it right when the time comes on Thursday.
By hk
June 4, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
… here’s an ‘MVP’ rating I have been updating weekly during the season since 1997, where ‘MVP’ equals projected year end Runs plus Homeruns plus RBI … suprisingly, so far, Kelly leads ..
Player - ‘MVP’
Johnson - 230
Frenchy - 221
Renteria - 221
Andruw - 218
Chipper - 212
Thorman - 147
McCann - 135
Diaz - 85
Harris - 74
… for details and curves:
http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/newton.htm
By rammerjammer
June 4, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this
brent a., you’re too quick to criticize the Devine pick. He’s got a 1.78 ERA and 13 saves in AA-Mississippi, with 34 Ks in 25 IP. And he’s just 23. He still has a lot of promise.
Carroll, thanks for an interesting story on how FEW of those top picks have or are likely to make it. Probably that’s why the MLB draft is not that big an event when compared to the NBA/NFL drafts and the near-certainty of those top picks making an immediate contribution.
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this
The Mets draft better because they have a system in place for what their looking for. And now their getting picthers that fit with Petersons pitching philosophy - look out!!!
By Bailey
June 4, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
Mark
I like Andruw, I do…but unless he takes a discount to come back, I dont want to pay him for a bunch of years if he is going to start deteriorating each year. Especially if the Yanks or Sox are going to drive the $$$ up. Also…if Texas is going to trade MT, then you’re right, we should go after him. He already has ties here (from Tech) and i think he would be a good addition. However, that means that they would either need to trade Salty or look at him in LF. You Agree?
By Bailey
June 4, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
Muts rule…that philosophy is a bit skewed because your GM and pitching coach have only been there for 2 or 3 years. You can’t have that good of a system in place that soon. Also, you were bragging about past draft picks…the “system” must not be working too well, because the GM that made those picks IS GONE
By journalist jimmy smith
June 4, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
carroll rogers, what cheeses are served in the draft room this year and will dob be allowed in the room when the cheeses are on the table? now, baseball … not enough consideration is being given to players from uganda and jimmy smith hopes that the braves will draft a ugandan player in this year’s first round. at pick number fourteen the braves may be fortunate enough to select jimmy smith’s cousin, infielder, uh, hammockbone smith. and where is doc? why is there no confirmation of the existence of a hammock bone? must be a hammock bone because both of chipper’s are sore. and what is mizuno saying about the lack of tv time for the mizuno trademarks now that chipper is disabled? and will we see escobar wearing mizuno sunglasses and wrist bands and socks and shoes and gloves soon? and now, chico cadahia’s pants. flbravesgirl has made a good point about these pants being too small for chico cadahia. now that the team has returned home from the road trip a new pair of uniform pants must be found for chico cadahia! and crawling on the field has jeopardized the managing career of phillip wellman who has been suspended by the braves organization for unbecoming crawling on a baseball field. if that was unbecoming bobby cox must never crawl on the field. cadahia? oh, the humanity! and what lineup surprise will bobbycox have for us tonight? canadians? no canadians? more than one? more than two?
By ncscoots
June 4, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
Fellas, the Rangers are hitting a cool .249 as a team, and you think they are going to trade their best hitter? In fact, the only guy on their squad performing offensively?
I know they’ve been fairly clueless in the past, but that would truly boggle.
By eldog
June 4, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
To the mets fan, shut up. You have only won one out of the last 15 division titles. So we are obvously doing something better than you. Pretty soon that list you named will be gone anyway. Ya’ll will just end up trading them all to get Manny Remirez after you lose Carlos Beltran or Carlos Delgado to free agency. Which is fine with me cause after you run out of money it will be another 7 years till we have any competition.
By Treadway
June 4, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
By Mets rule. You drool June 4, 2007 4:01 PM NY Mets past few years #1 picks - Pelfrey, Humber, Milledge, Kazmir, Heillman. See it’s not just about us having way more money, we’re better at drafting too.
I agree completely that the Mets have done a much better job at drafting players….who are proficient at singing rap music with sexually explicit lyrics. I guess their scouts hang out at record studios.
By Mark
June 4, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this
nsscoots…Texas is going to trade their best player because they suck. They are looking at the future. It is already being reported on Rangers radio and ESPN that they are shopping Texiera. Bailey…I agree with your view on Salty. I hate to move him because he is so talented behind the plate…but, we signed McCann to that 6 yr deal so we have no options. I guess move Salty to first-but, if we get MT from Texas then I guess Salty in LF??? I hate it because I would love to see Salty catching, but the Braves stuck themselves by signing McCann to that deal, although it was smart because McCann is talented!!Hell if they don’t ign Andruw they could move Willie to center and put Salty in LF.
By Bob
June 4, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this
Mets Drool,
I thought Robert (Donk) was the dumbest guy on the Braves Blog, but you sure give him a run for the money.
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
“NY Mets past few years #1 picks - Pelfrey, Humber, Milledge, Kazmir, Heillman.”
“See it’s not just about us having way more money, we’re better at drafting too.”
Ummm, what exactly is so amazing about those players? So far, Pelfrey hasn’t done anything in the majors except get demoted; Milledge has gone from “future Mets outfield stud” to “how much can we get for him in a trade?”; Humber has yet to do anything in the majors; and Kazmir? I can’t believe you even brought his name up. Congrats, you guys drafted a great pitcher, but that don’t mean $hit if he doesn’t help your major league club; Heilman is the only one who has contributed to your major league team in any way, and he’s only a middle reliever, AKA least important pitcher on a team…
By Bailey
June 4, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
Mark…well, i’m headed home. I’ll be here tomorrow, though. We’ll just have to see what happens. I have always liked Texiera, but i’m still reluctant that texas will let him go. Maybe if we put a good enough package together, we could get Milwood, too. He would help our starers as well. We could give them Davies, Harrison, Thorman, and Devine. Talk to you tomorrow..I’m out.
By DraftExpert
June 4, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
Right-handed pitching is very good in this draft… left-handed pitching is not. We will draft the best righty at #14, and he will be a very good prospect. Outfield could be a need… but we have Brandon Jones at AA, Jordan Schafer at High A, and Cody Johnson was our 1st-rounder last year. So we already have some potential in the outfield.
By journalist jimmy smith
June 4, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this
to the blogger that suggested founder as a possible cause of the latest problems, this journalist went to the internet to learn about founder and its causes.
We know some of the causes of founder, but some cases are hard to explain. Listed below are some of the common causes of acute founder:
1. Horse getting into the feed bin and eating too much grain 2. Gram negative bacterial infections with endotoxemia 3. Excessive concussion to the feet 4. Obesity 5. Standing on black walnut shavings 6. A hot horse drinking too much cold water too fast
a copy of this post has been forwarded to jeff porter for use in the clubhouse as jeff porter sees fit. jimmy smith thinks it is time to remove all black walnut shavings from the floor just in case.
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this
“and don’t forget the history lesson of - Strawberry, Gooden, Preston Wilson, Burnitz, Mazzilli, Wally Backman”.
Hello, Hall of Famers, are you there??? Oh thats right, none to be found in that so-called “history lesson”… Maybe you’ve heard of future hall of famers Tom Glavine, Chipper Jones, and Andruw Jones - All of whom were DRAFTED by the Braves…
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this
Mets fool, dude are you still here? What an Idiot,guy you should really lay off the weed!!!!!!!!
By Lew
June 4, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Bailey-Of course Texas needs pitching. So do we. So does everyone. Why in the world do you want to give up Davies, who has seemingly turned the corner and is showing flashes of looking great and Harrison, one of our top pitching prospects, who we will need in the next year or two? Texiera is going to cost way more than we have to pay and Thorman needs a bit more of a chance. Two months is hardly enough time to take before throwing him under the bus. Don’t count on saving big bucks if Andruw leaves, either. Hudson’s salary increase next year equals half of Andruw’s salary. Signing Francoeur long term will cost more and there will be arbitration icreases. Texiera is not what we need-especially to the tune of that much pitching. You may need Thorman to play left if Salty learns 1B. As for the draft, pitching and more pitching. Why worry about outfielders or first basemen? Shaun tells us they are plentiful and always readily available.
By Braves20
June 4, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
Why the hell are we so willing to trade a kid with a tremendous upside who has has a total of 8 MLB at bats and a game winning hit to boot? He along with Salty, Frenchy and McCann are the faces of our franchise for the next decade. And trade him for a middle of rotation guy? Nonsense.
By Bob
June 4, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
Come to think of it, Mets Drool, you are dumber than Robert (Donk).
By FLBRAVESFAN
June 4, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this
Actually the best pitcher in the draft is a lefty - named Price but he will be long gone (1, 2 or 3) before we draft.
By keylargo25
June 4, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this
To move Saltalamacchia to 1st is just not a good move. He might be in the top 5 of defensive catchers but will be in the bottom 2 or 3 of first basemen for a COUPLE OF YEARS! Coupled with, what I hope is an aberration, the fact that he hit .230 last year just really makes him a liability. Is Atlanta good enough to live with him getting OJT till then? We might as well look up A J Zapp.
By Lew
June 4, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
JoeBrave-Dude, don’t blame it on the weed. The guy has other major problems. The weed probably helps mellow him out.
By MBATL
June 4, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
Pelfrey is pretty much Kyle Davies. Very similar minor league stats; Davies is a year ahead… but the Braves got Davies in the 4th round, while the Mets used a 1st round pick for Pelfrey.
Kazmir - great pick at #15 in ‘02! But you TRADED him for Victor Zambrano! Genius! Meanwhile, the Braves drafted Francoeur with the 23rd pick, and McCann with the 64th.
2003, Mets took Milledge with the 12th pick; the Braves took Jared Saltalamacchia with the 36th pick.
Geez, I could play this game all day!
By Gil in Mechanicsville
June 4, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
Who to draft? Wow, only about 1,000 kids out there to pick from. If you are looking for immediate results you pick a college guy. Long term you pick a high school kid. I can only say that the scouts have been watching some of these kids since they were 12 years old.
Just pick the best you can find, the bloggers will immediately call for the team to trade him for (pick one) a 1st baseman, a starting pitcher, a center fielder…..
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Enough Teixera talk please… We need pitching, pitching, and MORE PITCHING!!! We have the 3rd ranked offense in the NL right now. The Angels currently have the 9th ranked offense in the AL and yet they have the second best record in baseball. Why is that you ask? PITCHING!!!
By Mets drool you fool
June 4, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this
NY Mets past few years #1 picks - Pelfrey, Humber, Milledge, Kazmir, Heillman.
Pelfrey, having problems
Humber, we’ll see
Milledge, you’re still trying to unload him
Kazmir, Victor Zambrano was a good trade for you wasn’t he?
Heilman, meat for the Braves to feast on.
The picks you mentioned before these guys, were made by a management team that hasn’t been in NY for years!
Mets Fool,
You’re better off when you’re acting like the immature person shouting little kid taunts. That’s a role you can handle. Better leave the drafting and trade analysis to adults. You’re not up to it, little boy.
By Efrim
June 4, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this
Lew
Davies has turned the corner????
No he has not.
Tex for Harrison and Davies?
Why in gods name would GM Jon Daniels make that trade?
By Eric from MO
June 4, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
Why is everyone commenting on who we should take? You suggest a kid from GA and if he is that good great, however who on here has watched high school baseball all over the U.S. Who has watched players in other countries? Who really has watched that much college baseball? To suggest someone in the baseball drat is dumb. The baseball draft is not like the NBA or the NFL draft because other than scouts nobody knows who all these kids are, Not even the GMs.
As for Mets Rule, are you serious? All the players you mentioned are not the reason you are winning. The reason you are winning is Beltran, Glavine, Orlando Hernadez, you know guys you bought. If you would of said Wright or Reyes you would have made a good case but I guess those 2 werent number 1 picks.
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
Any time you make a valid point on here you guy get all red-a*******ed. The mets draft studs - lately you’ve drafted duds. So you drafted Larry a million years ago - big freakin’ deal how about the pitcher who gives up all htose grand slams how come you don’t talk about him?
By Eric from MO
June 4, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this
I say trade Escobar. Elvis Andrus kid is suppose to be awesome and be ready for 2009. We have Renteria until then. Besides even if we would keep him and he did great everyone on here would say trade him as soon as it is mentioned Elvis Andrus may be ready. If you dont believe me look at McCann and Salty. There have been many people who have already said to not let McCann catch. Some even said to trade McCann. Braves fans are a joke.
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this
Was a valid point made by you, Muts Fool? You shoot your mouth of about things you know nothing about & you get called on it. Your so called “valid points” on the draft were debunked by several posters.
By Ron
June 4, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
Efrim, Why in gods name would JS make that trade? Tex will be here for a year and a half and then he will leave!!! And we would be trading two young Starting Pitchers for that!!! DONT THINK SOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
By Savannah Guy
June 4, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this
The draft is very important for Braves success in the future. For the present, I hope we draft some talent that we can use as extra chips for some current trades. In 2007. This month.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this
Efrim, is it really your contention that Davies has NOT turned his season around? I guess it all depends on your definition of “turned around”, huh?
BTW, the thief in the trade you mentioned wouldn’t be Jon Daniels, LOL. He makes that trade before you can get off the phone, if he is indeed shopping MT (which would be the stupid part for him).
By MBATL
June 4, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this
Eric, I agree with you about trading Escobar except, I fear we’re gonna need a backup for Chipper quite a bit this year… and I don’t really want it to be Orr, Prado or Woodward…
I don’t think Escobar is a superstar in the making (not enough power), so on the one hand, I wouldn’t mind trading him while he’s still a “top prospect.” He might turn out to be a Renteria-type, but it’s a bit of a longshot.
But he may be valuable to us this year if Chipper can’t play a lot, unless Aybar or someone else is available at 3rd.
By Treadway
June 4, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
By Mets rule. You drool June 4, 2007 6:48 PM Any time you make a valid point on here you guy get all red-a*ed. The mets draft studs - lately you’ve drafted duds. So you drafted Larry a million years ago - big freakin’ deal how about the pitcher who gives up all htose grand slams how come you don’t talk about him?
Now I see….you are the only one here that makes valid points…..okay then. Please define valid.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this
Davies has really not been that bad. The team is 6-4 in is 10 starts. He has had 5 pretty good starts and had another start where he kept the team in the game. His other 4 starts however have been absolutely horrific. But lately he has pitched better. Hey, if the Braves can keep winning 60% of his starts, they will be in great shape.
In his 5 good starts, he has gone 35.3 innings, given up 29 hits, walked 10, given up 9 earned runs. That’s a 2.29 ERA in his five good starts with a WHIP of 1.10. AND notice that he is averaging over 7 innings per start in those games which does wonders for our pen.
In the sixth game he pitched alright in by keeping his team in the game, he went 5.3, gave up 6 hits, walked 2, and gave up 4 runs. More importantly, the braves won the game because he kept them in there through 5 innings. So, in his 6 good starts, he has gone 40.7 innings, given up 35 hit, walked 12, and given up 13 earned runs. That’s an ERA of 2.87 and a WHIP of 1.15.
HOWEVER, in his 4 awful starts, he has gone 17 innings, given up 24 hits, walked 15, given up 19 earned runs for a horrific ERA of 10.05 and a horrific WHIP of 2.29. SCARY!
In his last 6 starts, he has pitched 37.7 innings, given up 38 hits, walked 11, given up 17 earned runs for an ERA of 4.05 and a WHIP of 1.30. Not too bad for a 23 year old #4 starter. Even better, the Braves are 4-2 in his last 6 starts. And he is averaging over 6 innings a start in his last 6 starts which again helps save the pen.
By Mets drool, you fool
June 4, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this
Mets fool… (yawn)… when you make a valid point it will be news.
See above about your “studs.”
If you don’t pay attention to the arguments that shoot down your “stud” label, it will just continue to show you as the immature little boy who likes to play with the big boys on an adult blog.
Here’s a couple of bucks, kid…..go buy yourself an ice cream.
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this
ncscoots Davies has turned his season around if you mean that 5 starts ago he was a Quad-A pitcher and now 5 starts later he is a decent 5th starter. Lets not starting getting ahead of ourselves and calling him a future Ace or anything (could maybe be a #2 one day - would have to improve his K/BB ratio and stop being a headcase)…
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this
Hudson!!!! Wow, I figured we’d get alot of runs today but Hudson doubling in a run? We score at least 7 runs today guaranteed…
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this
BTW, Braveheart your last post sounds exactly like how KC used to hype-up Horacio Ramirez… Didn’t work for him and it ain’t workin’ for you either…
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this
Does Thorman shatter a bat every game? Seems like it to me.
Hudson got his run back. Loved seeing Escobar flying around the bases on Huddy’s double.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this
I’ve never questioned Chippers toughness before and I’m not ready to.I am getting to the point of questioning whether it’s time to question though.How’s that for some convoluted circular reasoning ? Seriously, I’m wondering if there’s an underlying condition.It seems to me without something like arthritis or some other condition causing inflammation, nerve pain,etc.It is hard to grasp both hands hurting to that extent.
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this
DonC, If the Marlins keep hitting the ball to right field the Braves are going to need all the runs they can get.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this
Kazmir, Humber, Milledge, Heilman, Pelfrey, Strawberry, Gooden, Preston Wilson, Burnitz, Mazzilli, Wally Backman
Cokehead Straw
Cokehead Doc
Preston Wilson?!?!?!?!?! Wow! A strikeout machine that became just another decent outfielder for teams other than yours.
Burnitz?!?!?!?!?!?! Stop it silly. Again, a K machine that became just another decent outfielder for teams other than yours.
Mazzilli?!?!?!?!?!? Seriously, what did the guy have a decent 3 year run as a pro. Stop kidding. If he was not a Tony Danza look a like that drove all the guidettes in NYC wild in the 70s, would anyone even remember him? Come on, be serious. If he did not look like a poor man’s version of Tony Danza, his playing career would have lasted about as long as his managerial career did.
AND the drunken, wife beating lil’ redneck Backman as Straw called him. A decent little second baseman back in the day. But that’s a waste of a first round pick. He was not any better than Lemke but the Braves did not have to waste a first round pick getting a decent little second baseman.
Pelfrey?!?!?! Yeah, he is so good. No, that’s right, he got smacked around, and got sent down so that the Mets could call up Chan Ho and Sosa to replace him.
Kazmir?!?!?! Yeah, he looks good playing for the Devil Rays and not the Mets. How you liking Zambrano numbnuts?
Heilman?!?!?!? Yeah, that makes sense. Waste a first round pick on a malcontent middle reliever. Wow. Solid draft choice, let me tell you.
Humber?!?!?! Tell me when he does something in the majors.
Milledge?!?!? we’ve been hearing ‘bout this dude for years. when is he gonna do something already? The Mets have so much darn faith in him that they went out and signed Alou and traded for Green. The super stud can’t even beat out a 40 year old man who pees on his hands and a washed up outfielder who can’t even catch a fly ball anymore. Hell, for that matter, he can’t even beat out the immortal Endy freaking Chavez for a roster spot.
Got any more first round draft picks you wanna try to wow me with numbnuts?
By DonCoburleone
June 4, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this
Does anyone feel the same way about Willie Harris and Matt Diaz as I do? I just keep thinking they are going to suddenly wake up and realize they are no more than fringe major-leaguers who shouldn’t be hitting anywhere near .330 or .340; then they start acting like it and slump big-time…
By Ron
June 4, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this
Its always easier to draft good players when you constantly finish in the division 2nd or worst for 15 years!!! Yeah yall and every other team could have had McCann, yall could have Escobar playin second base for yall!!! Yeah yall did good with Reyes, and Wright, but yall had good picks, we constantly drafted 24-30 every year for about 15 years, and a 21 pick last year!!! Now we get to draft high now, and now yall will get one of the last picks in the first round(unless yall picked up a Class A player in free agency, therefore dont get a first round pick, not sure if yall have a first round pick or not, and dont give a damn either way) lets see how good yall draft without a top 15 pick!!!
By Braveheart
June 4, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this
Don Cornelius,
I don’t think Davies is all that good myself. Never said he was a future stud or anything. But for a young player who ain’t costing the team much at all, right now, he is doing his job as a #4 starter. That’s all we can ask out of him. The Braves are 30-16 in the starts of Hudson, Smoltz, James, and Davies, 17-7 with Smoltz and Hudson, 13-9 with James and Davies. They are 2-8 with their fifth starters. They would be in first place and on a pace to win about 100 games right now if the fifth starters would have just done their jobs and gone .500. Of course, I have a suspicious eyebrow raised whenever Davies takes the hill - he does not inspire too much faith in me for the long term. I was just pointing out that he is doing his job so far.
By Bob, Journalist
June 4, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this
Anyone having problems posting?
I posted two that came back server not found … I know my connection was fine as I was listening to the game.
I’m not reposting … just told Jimmy why flounder is always good … if you know how to fix it … of course, I’f you know how to fix it, you probably wouldn’t flounder.
The other was to Shaun, congratulating him on a fine post and you know I’m not going to do that again tonight!
By ncscoots
June 4, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
DonC, as you wish. But I’ll take a guy who’s turned in 2-ER-or-fewer starts 4 of his last 5. His April was brutal, sure…but this ain’t April anymore, is it?
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this
Jeez - look at that list YOUR own writer posted about all the wasted number 1 picks you had. It’s a bunch of bums no ones ever heard from again. Even if the Mets end of trading a guy or he’s waiting in the wings to make an impact - like Milledge wait and see!!! - the Amazins are smart with their picks. Thats what I was saying - I just didn’t think I had to put it in 2nd grader terms for you to understand.
By MBATL
June 4, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this
Like I said, not enough power :)
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this
Way to go Yunel!!!! How many more dingers before he catches up with Orr and Woodward…oh, wait….
By Ron
June 4, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this
Where is people gettin the Lidge rumors from? He is washed up as a closer, nothin more than a descent middle reliever, that Pujols homer put him in a funk!!! Would not give up much for that bum!!!
By Gil In Mechanicsville
June 4, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this
“I don’t think Escobar is a superstar in the making (not enough power),”
Just enought to hit that one out.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this
Thorman handled that like a man.
By The Grinch
June 4, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this
Nice to see Thorman getting Willie’s back; that’s one thing he’s good for. Escobar’s old lady’s a cutie. I think Woodward should be mighty nervous about now.
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this
hopefully this will be a reverse jinx - Huddy just doesn’t look like he has it tonight.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Mets Rule If you’re older than 17 a word of advice…THERAPY.
By ncscoots
June 4, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
Escobar’s old lady’s a cutie
Leave it to Grinch to spot Yunel’s REAL talent, LOL!
By SteelCav
June 4, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
Mets rule…before you spout off about things you obviously don’t know about, maybe you should do a little research.
According to a March 2006 study by Baseball America, the Braves ranked 7th out of 30 in terms of organizational talent. And 7th was the “lowest ranking in years for [the] Braves only comes after graduating 19 rookies to big league club.”
The Mets you ask? 28th out of 30.
Ouch.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
Everything looks to be about release point with Huddson these days.When he releases high and,or off center the ball doesn’t move down.Watch where his hand is on release.
By journalist jimmy smith
June 4, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this
the announcer said it is painful for chipper to put on chipper’s pants … hmmm … grinch, please take this one and run with it for jimmy smith. journalist has been too critical of chipper of late. imagine unbearable pain putting on pants!
By geauxbraves2000
June 4, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this
Huddy doesn’t look like he has it most nights nowadays. His last outing was “good”, but look who he was facing, a struggling Brewers team. The same pattern, from what I’ve ready about him, he starts good then struggles.
The Braves must get some pitching. Period. Forget Tex, Helton, they must find a reliable starter.
Geaux Braves!!
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
OH THE HUMAMITY!!! Sorry JJS I won’t do that again.
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
Great show of defense so far tonight.
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
come on huddy, this sucks - we need hudson and smoltz to be on, this is just not acceptable from your co-1. Especially since we’re rockin 3 co-5s these days.
By WhatThe Hey
June 4, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this
McCann? Wbat the? This is becoming a habit! Where’s the D at?
These guys need to stay on the road. Kelly J is back home with his new fiancee and after going .500 on the road, does the hat trick tonight!
C’mon guys, it’s time to grow up a bit now!
By parks
June 4, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
wow, that just sucked
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this
I sem to be sloopy wth my keey werk tnight.
By will
June 4, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
Sorry to hear of the passing of Clete Boyer. He was probably the greatest defensive third baseman the Braves have had since coming to Atlanta. Probably Brooks Robinson was only better during that era. He was also part of some of the great Yankee teams of the sixties. My sympathy and best wishes go to his family.
By Ron
June 4, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
Man is it me or is McCann letting alot of balls get passed him? That cost us 2 runs right there!!! Man he has got to get that damn glove down to the ground!!! Hudson does not have it tonight!!! Man we only got 3 runs on this Marlins Starting pitcher, man he had a high era comin in, well why should I be surprised that he is winning!!!
By Ron
June 4, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this
We need to win tonight, because Carliyle or whatever you spell it will start one of these games, and dont think Smoltz will pitch in this series, and you never know what to expect from Davis, and James!!! Hell we better watch out we may get swept in this series!!!
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this
With the double header tomorrow, they needed 7 or 8 from Huddy tonight. It’s not going to happen.
If Huddy can hold them I think they can get the runs back, but they are going to have to start getting on base before two are out.
By True Braves Fan
June 4, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this
Hate to admit that I was wrong, but I have to in case of Thorman. I thought that he would do well as the everyday 1B, but he is proving that he can’t do the job. He was never a gold glover, and now he has stopped hitting. Also, agree with the bloggers that McCann is making too many defensive mistakes. Wish BC would split the catching duties between him and Salty 3-2 instead of the present 4-1.
By N8
June 4, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
Have no fear, Debbie Downer (aka: Dr. Reality), is here!
Tim Hudson’s last 4 starts:
23.1 IP with 18 ER allowed = 6.94 ERA
Quite simply….NOT GOOD ENOUGH for our #2 starter.
Hmmmm. Big loss yesterday. Who’s on the mound? NOT the stopper.
Tim’s a fine pitcher. But I said it last week, (like I did ALL winter), and I’ll say it again.
HE’S NOT AN ACE ANYMORE and never will be. He Chuck James, with a few more years experience….ie: Inconsistant, and too expensive after this year.
As for Scott Thorman? 0 for 3, 2 K’s, 3 LOB. Current batting average of .221
YIKES.
By Ron
June 4, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
The Marlins pitcher looked great in the bottom of the 5th did’nt he, LOL, he just looked terrible against Andruw, and Frenchy and could not score a louzy run!!! I love how our defense has been outstanding tonight!!! LOL!!!!!!!!
By Braveheart
June 4, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this
it’s time for someone to tell mccann to go on the DL for two weeks and come back fresh and back being the monster he was last year. His D sucks, his bat is anemic. He has 2 hits today but he ain’t right and he has not been right for a while now. He needs to stop looking over his shoulder and just do what is best for the team. No one appreciates an injured guy hurting the team just because he is afraid of being Wally Pipped.
By What The Hey
June 4, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this
Francouer, gives up two runs (Cabrera and Uggla)
Willie Harris, gives up a run.
McCann gives up two.
Don’t want to hear the excuses of the demands of being home. The good teams win at home. If these guys can’t get their act together when they come off the road, they don’t deserve to be a playoff team.
Maybe Salty needs to be Hudson’s personal catcher. After seeing McCann catch Hudson against the Brewers and again tonight, maybe he just can’t catch Hudson.
By parks
June 4, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
more comedy from N8, Your its hopeless for Hudson. If he goes on another hot streak, it doesn’t matter. Just a mirage. Dr. Reality? LMAO!. You got it right with the first name
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
reel cr#p, I mean steel cav, LOL that’s just what I was waiting for somoen to put out some stupid ranking stat. If your so great where is all your speed? How come you have no pitchers? Why do you have a bum playing first. Yeah, you guys are great drafters. Idiot.
By hawks are cursed for trading nique
June 4, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
AHHH WHY DID BOBBY pitchit hudson for WOODWARD??? at least with Hudson we would of had a chance for a hit!!
By N8
June 4, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
“If Huddy can hold them I think they can get the runs back, but they are going to have to start getting on base before two are out.”
ROFLMAO!
You’re kidding right?
By What The Hey
June 4, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this
Hudson wasn’t really sharp tonight, I’ve seen him better. He wasn’t that bad though. He surely didn’t deserve this!
By Lew
June 4, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this
Efrim-As usual, you ignorance is astounding. In Davies’ past five starts, he has given up more than 2 earned runs once. Exactly what part of turned the corner fails to penetrate the thickness of your head? Dude, you continue to spew the most ridiculous hypotheses and some of the stupidest analysis on this blog. You never bother to check out any facts before you speak. Try doing a bit of research and maybe you won’t look like a complete idiot.
By A-ville Ranger
June 4, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this
I was afraid that big contract might get heavy on McCann’s shoulders.It was why I thought the end of the season may have been a better time to get it done.Then again it may have zero to do with how he’s playing.
By What The Hey
June 4, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
Maybe Bobby needs to give McCann a “mental health” day off like Barrett got in Chicago.
Of course that should NOT be followed by a thrashing from a team mate!
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
Alright Braves, strap on the leotards, remove the shrink wrap from the bats & let’s get some runs.
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
By the way, putting so many rookies on your team is because you have NO MONEY for real talent. Duh. We could put our whole minor league squad up here too and we’d rank high in number of minor leaguers that make the majors - and not win the division just like you.
By Savannah Guy
June 4, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
To Mets rule. You drool.
Don’t want to, but someone has to say it A “my team can beat your team, nananahahaha” post now and then is perfectly normal from an immature sports fanatic. But to go on and on all day and half of every night is, well…scary, don’t you think? And sad. We will never know why you continue to relentlessly post your annoying little childish barbs. When folks here finally get fed up with it and tell you so, it seems to put gas on your demented little fire. Are you aware that you lower the IQ and flow of this blog with your simpleton yakking? Do you really crave attention so much that you are addicted to the reactions you invariably get on this blog? Do you not have any other outlets for self-expression? Is it that you don’t have anything else to do with your life? Don’t you know any girls? Boys? Whatever? Based on what I’ve witnessed on this blog, with your constant pestering, I doubt you even have any idea why you actually do it. You obviously lack any self-awareness or sense of appropriateness. Don’t you think you should, at least on occasion, display a sense of decorum and come to the plate with something substantive?
Are you aware of obsessive-compulsive disorder? Do you think that your freedom of speech is being well served by your behavior? Are you really a Mets fan or do you just take pleasure in barging into places and alienating everyone? I don’t really think you are a Mets fan, but instead a sado-masochist. Between all of you’re picking and sniping, look up the term, sociopath. Then see what the dictionary tells you about malcontent.
See any resemblance? Have I hit any familiar buttons? There is help for you young man…but not on this blog I’m afraid. You’ll only exacerbate your problem here. Try a self-imposed sabbatical from blogging. It’ll do you good.
Now, when you do come back, remember to please play nice and add your special contribution (or playful nonsense like me and so many others) to the shared enjoyment and information gathering on this blog. In the meantime, talk to someone soon…in person. Seriously, you need help. Got it? Get it! Soon.
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
N8, Well a guy can dream can’t he? LOL
By The Grinch
June 4, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
Something is definitely bothering McCann mentally.
Agreed with whoever said leave Hudson in to hit for himself; saying he’s a better hitter than Woodward is not hyperbole.
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
strap on the leoatard? hahahahahahaha! are you some kind of ballerina? hahaahahahahahahahaha. what a girl.
By journalist jimmy smith
June 4, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
everybody knows who wes obermueller is, right? oh, the humanity!
By N8
June 4, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this
“Dr. Reality? LMAO!.”
Explain to me why those stats are NOT reality. His “rough” stretch, has lasted almost as long as his hot streak to start the year.
Why will he be worth about 13 million next year?
Let me get this right. Our rotation will consist of Smoltz, and two guys making a combined 30 million dollars (Hudson and Hampton).
WOW. Maybe Salty SHOULD be traded for some pitching. Somebody, anybody that can get through the 6th inning without giving up 5 or more runs.
Hudson has now allowed 5 or more runs in 3 of his last 4 starts. Do you want to know when the last time John Smoltz gave up 5 or more runs in 3 out of 4 starts?
Well even if you DIDN’T want to know (I know, you “hate” reality), I’ll tell you.
September 21st, 25th (it appears as though he worked on 3 days rest), and 30th……..OF 1993!! I’ll repeat that…199-FRICKIN-3!!!
14 years ago. The ONLY other time he’s (Smoltz) has done it was August 3rd, 8th, and 14th in 1989!
TWICE in his 19 year career has Smoltz allowed 5 or more runs in a stretch of 3 out of 4 starts.
Hudson is in a stretch of doing so right now. And last year from June 21 - July 29, he allowed 5 or more runs in 6 out of 8 starts. So “technically” he essentially, he did it TWICE during that stretch.
So Smoltz has done that 2 times in a 19 year career, and Tim Hudson has done it 3 times in LESS THAN A YEAR.
Yeah, I’m the one in nead of a reality check.
Now THAT is funny.
By nelson
June 4, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
trade escobar ? are u nuts ! ?
trade chipper jones to another team, trade james ..
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
Ummm, okay, so we’ve got our back up 3rd baseman and shortstop, that should clear two worthless guys off the bench. 4-4. Way to go Yunel.
By What The Hey
June 4, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
The perfect storm.
Terrible defense. A team who seems to lack the ability to focus for more than a couple of games in succession.
A journeyman pitcher with a high ERA pitching on 3 days rest.
Can’t hit, can’t play defense.
Yeah, we’re going to the playoffs!
Our regular first baseman is hitting .217.
The only guy who acts like he even wants to be on the field is the rookie and he’s playing for a job.
By SteelCav
June 4, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this
Mets rule…you are either too young to know any better or one of the most unintelligent baseball fans on the face of this planet. Either way, you’re simply here to flame, and I’m done with you. No one can reason with a fool. Cheers!
By Overlord
June 4, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
Im not sure how do u guys dont get whats the matter with Brian Mc. He is not supposed to fill the 4th spot. Chipper is not out there, Andrew is no carrying the team, the kid is feeling the pressure, as BC is asking him to drive in the runs. Im not sure a catcher is the guy to carry a team because the really get exhausted and even more if you r talking of just a kid.
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
Muts Fool, If you were not such a douchbag you be entertaining. There is something seriously wrong with you, unless you are 17 & hell even if you are 17 you have problems.
What is your infactuation that the Braves have “no money”. I’ve seen you post that at least 5-6 times. Most people hung up on money don’t have any.
By journalist jimmy smith
June 4, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
you know, yunel, those hammocks are feeling better. may be like bob the accounting guy … “take a few more days off chipper”. let’s see … yunel at third and chipper at first. problem solved for about 110 games a year. now, more wes obermueller … must not have liked japan or maybe just needed to face the braves rather than pitch for the braves. whither dob? and whither carroll rogers? and whither some other journalists? and what good is woodward when the pitcher is a better hitter?
By nelson
June 4, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this
mets? if we have gained him the 3 series to you, you have still not gained anything this year in addition always have been sweepings
By parks
June 4, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
No N8, again not saying the #’s are not correct. Nor did i ever compare him to smoltz. The fact that you said he ace days are over and can never will be is what comedy. The fact that you throw stats from a limited amount of time and then make a statement saying:
HE’S NOT AN ACE ANYMORE and never will be is comedy.
Maybe your right, maybe not. The thing that is comedy to me is that you seem to be a die hard fan but CONSTANTLY post such negative opinions and then call them “reality”
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this
Right. steel cr@p, i’m unintelligent. youve got no speed, two old pitches and nothing else. nothing from your 1b and Larry who cant’ stay healthy so you use a Mets retread like Woodward, and I’m the one who is unintelligent. But no seriously you guys have great drafts. whatever, jerk.
By What The Hey
June 4, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Think Escobar can play first when Chpper gets back? lmao
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
Rally caps!
By parks
June 4, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
well N8, I more to that post, but it got chopped. Not going to type it again. Keep on with the negativity!!!!
By nelson
June 4, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
trade andruw jones to white sox for buerhle , trade james and harris to tampa and another sp minor league pitcher for kazmir and crawford . and 1 more thing, trade larry ” DL ” Chipper jones to seatle for sexson
smoltz hudson buerhle davies cormier
1b : sexson 2b : johnson ss : renteria 3b : escobar of: brandon jones cf : crawford of : francoeur c ; mc cann
By nelson
June 4, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
trade andruw jones to white sox for buerhle , trade james and harris to tampa and another sp minor league pitcher for kazmir and crawford . and 1 more thing, trade larry ” DL ” Chipper jones to seatle for sexson
smoltz hudson buerhle davies kazmir
1b : sexson 2b : johnson ss : renteria 3b : escobar of: brandon jones cf : crawford of : francoeur c ; mc cann
By nelson
June 4, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
trade andruw jones to white sox for buerhle , trade james and harris to tampa and another sp minor league pitcher for kazmir and crawford . and 1 more thing, trade larry ” DL ” Chipper jones to seatle for sexson
smoltz hudson buerhle davies kazmir
1b : sexson 2b : johnson ss : renteria 3b : escobar of: brandon jones cf : crawford of : francoeur c ; mc cann
By Tony Almeida
June 4, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this
Chipper who?
and why the hell is he batting 8th??
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this
looks like Escobar came to play some ball tonight,B-Mac as well but where in the he11 is the rest of the team? And Mutts Fool boy I’d whup your @ss myself,you are one stoopid sumbitch,your like the energizer bunny you keep on and on, and keep p1ssing me off,What exactly has your precious piece of sh1t team won yet? not a damn thing so pipe down sh1thead before I shut you up with an anti freeze I.V.!!!!!Damn son your are one aggravating little ba$tard!!!!!
By SteelCav
June 4, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
Oh well, that pretty much sucked. Except for Mr. Escobar. Great night by the youngster. This kid can flat out hit.
The defense really let us down tonight. Too many mental mistakes.
I’m wondering if Huddy really has problems with the hot, humid Atlanta summers. He seemed to be laboring out there. DOB, have you asked him about that before?
By Overlord
June 4, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
That was a good research N8, i think we all have to agree that tim is not doing his job, i dont think that the excuse is… the defense did not do its job, if he was not giving up so much hits, braves position players wouldnt be overexposed in the field. But i will have to say that tim looks much better than last year. And Ill agree with nelson….. i would trade chipper before trading yunel, since even if chipper gets helathy from his hands, which im not sure that is going to happen as fast as some people think, i still think that once he gets on the field, there something that tells me that he is gonna get hurts again from his feet or maybe abdomen muscles…. who knows……. he has become one of those athlets that once they get hurt, injuries just keep coming. At least im happy seen that BC learned that his better option at 3rd is not CW nor PO.
Can anyone tell me if what we just saw yesterday from cormier yesterday is what we will get out of him, cause im 90% sure that if that is the case, our season is already over, clear and simple.
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
That sucked. That just felt like a game we gave away.
By Is It Just Me
June 4, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
or do the Braves seem to have A-D-D?
By Braveheart
June 4, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this
Oh chrissakes, where is Metroman? I can more than tolerate classy Mets fans like him. He seems to be one of a kind.
Mets Fool With His Stool Because He Is Such A Tool, seriously, don’t come back until you get some pubes on ya.
By RW
June 4, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this
I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned the one egregious omission of worthy first round draft picks of the last 20 years: Jeff Franceour. Looks like that one panned out ok, doesn’t it?
I also can’t believe how down everyone is on Davies. The guy’s 23, coming off a rough injury last year. I’ve read people stating that he doesn’t seem tough enough. Well, he sure seemed tough enough to make his ML debut at 21 years old in Fenway against that lineup and shut them down for six innings. The “lack of toughness” late last year and part of this year, as well as being a head case seems to have everything to do with his injury. It affected his delivery, and he’s only now (hopefully) gaining confidence in his delivery again, hence the better results as of late. Give him time. How many 23 year old pitchers are consistent? Notice how spotty guys like Zach Duke have been lately? Davies was one of our top two or three pitching prospects for a few years, and put up good numbers at every level, so just be patient with him. He’ll be a stud, I expect him to eventually put up Millwood type numbers from when Millwood was with the Braves. And if he doesn’t? And James continues to struggle as well? Maybe it would be time to re-evaluate McDowell at pitching coach. Has anyone else noticed he makes an astonishingly high number of visits to the mound? Even with Smoltz and Huddy out there he makes way too many trips. Not sure there’s much he could say to Smoltz or Huddy that they don’t already know.
By N8
June 4, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
Parks
Now I know you’re not ripping me to be rude. You are entitled to your opinion, and quite honestly, you stated you case very clearly in you last post about what you referred to as “comedy”. I appreciate that.
“Nor did i ever compare him to smoltz. The fact that you said he ace days are over and can never will be is what comedy. The fact that you throw stats from a limited amount of time and then make a statement saying: HE’S NOT AN ACE ANYMORE and never will be is comedy.”
As far as not comparing him to Smoltz? I know you didn’t. But you are trying to argue my point about him NOT being an Ace. What do you think Smoltz is?
That’s right. He’s an ACE. So whether you like it or not, or if you used a “specific” name (like Smoltz), you are comparing him to Smoltz, by arguing that he IS an Ace (or should I say arguing my point of him NOT being one).
Aces are stoppers. The STOP losing streaks. They can be counted on to CONTINUE winning streaks. In the 2 1/3 season that Hudson has been in a Braves uniform, he has NOT been consistant enough to be considered an ACE or Stopper, if you will.
Just my two cents. Like I said in the previous post, he’s a servicable starter. An average #2 guy, or a really good #3. I never said he’s washed up and should retire.
Just stating, what I consider to be undenyable numbers and trends….HE’S NOT AN ACE.
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
This game is on Bobby tonight,another classic case of staying too long when your S.P. doesn’t have good stuff,game gets out of hand and the team gives up,Cormier should have been gone in the 2nd yesterday,and Huddy in the 4th tonight,lousy @ssed two days of managing,this team tonight should have been BASHED especially with a retread pitcher going for them,I see little jimmy bird turd made his way out of the local lockup from his weekly conjugal!!
By JasonInMaine
June 4, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this
Well, that wasn’t the best of games. It certainlt does appear that Yunel wants to stay. It appears Thor is not going to break out any time soon. B-mac has a hard time catching Hudson. Hudson is in the midst of one of his bad streaks…not what we need out of our supposed co-ace when the other one is hurting. Does KJ stay up to late with his new fiance…does Frenchy do the same? Maybe they are also suffering from “fatigued groin”.
By MEB
June 4, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this
Not very often you see the Braves lose due to poor defense. Hudson deserved better support on a night he didn’t have his best stuff.
JJS… I agree with your opine that Yunel can stay on third and allow Chipper to man up on first. He can use his time productively on the DL to practice his footwork on first. I love Thorman’s effort but the man is not carrying his weight.
What is up with Kelly Johnson? If he gets on base a couple of times tonight we score some runs.
Please don’t feed the Mets fool. He will go away soon enough.
By Is It Just Me
June 4, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
Hudson was not that bad. He wasn’t Cy Young, but he pitched well enough to leave the game leading the Fish.
Look at the runs that scored. Francouer misplayed Cabrera into a triple that eventually scored. He then let Uggla score after he had stopped at 3rd when he juggled the ball.
Willie Harris misplayed a ball that let a run score.
McCann, geez, those two he let score hurt. A K for the third out and McCann doesn’t get the tailgate down and the next guy drives in two.
That looks like 4 runs to me. They only scored 2 more.
Without even having to exaggerate or look for a positive spin, Hudson should have left the game after giving up only 2 runs! That’s a fact!
By Overlord
June 4, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
i think N8 is right about hudson…… at least tim has not been able to probe N8 wrong, he might and i hope he does.
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
BraveFART- you cant take hearing from the other side. I dont’ say anthing that isn’t fact, the problem is the truth just isn’t good for the Braves these days.
By the way, I see we increased our lead without even playing tonight. Hahahahahahahahahha. How’s that taste?
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
Mutts fool:mommy mommy the Braves just lost hahahahahahah. Mommy:okay sonw go away the nice man is here right now. Mutts fool but mommy mommy I just don’t like the braves and they pick on me on the Braves blog,especially that mean ol joebrave. Mommy:Dammit stoopid I told you to go away, the nice man is here and I need rent money. Sound familiar you dumb little twit????
By Glass Half Full (GHF)
June 4, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
As much as most of us would like to see Salty get significant playing time at 1st, that just ain’t gonna happen until Pena or another minor leaguer is called up to back up McCann. Having both catchers on your roster in the game could potentially be bad news injury-wise.
By Braves Fan 79
June 4, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
Everyone talking about trade Chipper or Andrew…..without a Healthy Smoltz Chipper and Andrew this team is going nowhere in the playoffs. I do however think we can get in as the wildcard…as ive been saying for about 2 months now.
I wonder if Arizona won tonight…thats the team ahead of us where it counts. We all know we can beat the mets in the playoffs….its getting there that matters! Man i would sure love to see woodward cut. I dunno why cox pitchit him when we have Diaz on the bench….its like he gives away games sometimes….kinda like that game against boston when we were only down 2 or 3 to the redsox…then the first guy he brings out of the pen is…REDMEN??? WHY!?? I mean the game was still in reach before he came in! (by the way redmen gave up a grandslam) I knew it was over at that point…just like i knew woodward was a automatic out toinght. I love Bobby…but man he just plays it by the books way 2 much. Sometimes u gotta take a risk…thats what makes Jim Leland such a good manager if u ask me.
By Mets rule. You drool
June 4, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
jokebrave, you okay little guy? I remember my first beer too. Hahahahaha. You’ll be alright, just get some sleep. See ya, enjoy being another 1/2 game back. Keep telling yourself its early.
By Is It Just Me
June 4, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this
You have to admire A-Rod! He goes on the road, stays out all night at strip clubs with concubines and still can play the game.
The young Braves come home to their girlfriends, fiancees and wives and can’t even find the frickin’ ballpark!
Guys, just reach over and pat that thang every once in a while and get some rest! Just because you’re home doesn’t mean you can stop being a ballplayer!
Wasn’t that a sweet story in the AJC about Kelly J and proposing to his girlfriend? Think they got caught up when he got home last night after the road trip? What else could it be? He hits .500 on the road trip then K’s three times tonight and hits into a DP in his first game back home.
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
Davies will be just fine, He is young and still learning the adjustments,James? I don’t know,But from what I see from Cormier,He11 No!! Helloooo Lew how are you, and a shout out to SJA,Wayne in Utah whats up dude?
By chrisklob
June 4, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this
I just checked with my bookie and he tells me that the over/under on Mets drool’s age is 14 1/2. Any takers?
By Drew
June 4, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
I hope the Braves draft C/1B Kevin Patterson from here in Birmingham with that 69th pick. He has great raw power and will never have discipline issues. He worked out with the Braves recently I believe, and is somewhat local, so that would fit the Braves mold.
By Drew
June 4, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this
I hope the Braves draft C/1B Kevin Patterson from here in Birmingham with that 69th pick. He has great raw power and will never have discipline issues. He worked out with the Braves recently I believe, and is somewhat local, so that would fit the Braves mold.
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this
You know Mutts Fool,there is a scene in a movie that reminds me of you,anyone here remember Forrest Gump? The scene I’m referring to is when Forrest is sitting outside while his Mother pays his tuition to school…. hahahahahahaha Hey Mutts Fool,you little pecker dweeb,your a pi$$ant in a dream world… go play with your dolls now and leave the room grown ups would like to talk!!! Geez what a little Ba$tard!!!!
By SteelCav
June 4, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
I propose a moratorium on replies to Mets rule or any other pea-brained Met flamer. Ignore them and they will go away.
PLEASE DON’T FEED THE ANIMALS
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
Let’s see absent are Metro man,Cave turd,and just about every other pecker chomping Mets fan but here this little Ba$tard Mutts fool still runs that chum hummer he has.Useless blabbering,it’s kind of like a gnat that just won’t go away…..
By Braveheart
June 4, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
trade james and harris to tampa and another sp minor league pitcher for kazmir and crawford
Yeah, the Devil Rays are so gonna make that deal. When you come back from the Planet Retard, let us know, Nelson.
trade escobar? are u nuts!? trade chipper jones to another team….. trade larry ” DL ” Chipper jones to seatle for sexson
uh, planet retard just called. they want clueless nelson back. i hope no one else minds too much, I spoke for all of you and told them the extradition would happen pronto.
sexson sucks. let’s trade the guy who is .300/.392/.625 this year and .304/.402/.544 in his career and who walks 100 times a season and strikes out only 93 times a season for a bum who is .204/.301/.398 this season and who is .267/.348/.521 in his career and who only walks 70 times a season but strikes out 158 times a season. Only 70 walks a season for a supposedly feared hitter - he is not that fearsome - his numbers this year are actually worse than Thorman’s numbers - but of course you will have to pay sexson about $13 mil more than you have to pay Thorman.
So, your grand plan will have Sexson at first and Escobar at third. As good as Escobar has looked so far in 3 freaking games, you do realize that Escobar hit less home runs in an entire season at AA than Michael freaking Jordan hit when he played in an entire season at AA after not playing baseball at all for 15 years. Jordan hit 3 homers in AA. Escobar only hit 2.
AND Escobar ain’t a kid. He’s claims he’s about 24 years old. He’s from Cuba as well so I am invoking the El Duque rule and guessing that he is probably 28 or 29 years old. Still remember Livan saying that he watched his brother pitch for the national team when he was a kid but the problem was that Duque was claiming that he was only 5 or so years older than Livan. Raising of the eyebrows. Turns out later that Duque is much older than Livan. Who would have guessed that just by listening to Livan talk about Duque?
Chipper who? and why the hell is he (escobar, I presume) batting 8th??
Uh, Mr. Fairweather, where exactly would you expect Cox to hit a kid playing his third major league game? Who exactly was he supposed to hit in front of? Chipper who? Do you mean HOFer Chipper?
trade andruw jones to white sox for buerhle
yeah! and let’s pay buehrle $15 million dollars next year to pitch for us. that would be a really sound investment for the next 7 years. great thinking. let’s add another $15 mil for Buehrle to the $13 mil for Hudson, to the $14 mil for Smoltz, to Hampton’s $15 mil, to Chipper’s $12 mil. That should give us, oh, 11 million dollars left over to field the other 20 members of the team.
Oh, I forgot, you traded Chipper for Sexson (Kingman) who makes $13 mil, which is actually more than Chipper makes. So, that would give you 10 mil to pay the other 20 players. McCann is going to make $4 mil. This leaves you with $6 mil for 19 players.
But then you also traded James and Harris who are making nothing for Kazmir who will be arb eligible soon and probably will make at least $6 mil or $7 mil in his first go around with arb and then you added crawford who will probably be making at least $12 mil or so in the next 2 or so years as he becomes a free agent. That leaves the Braves with negative $12 mil to spend on the 17 players left on the team. Liberty Media is going to so love you for forcing Sir John to make those trades.
Nelson, again, maybe that sort of logic is feasible on Planet Retard but somehow that does not compute for us mere earthlings.
By Ron
June 4, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this
I agree Hudson did not have his best stuff, but the defense was louzy!!! The defense lost the game for us today!!! Not trying to be negative, but we needed this win tonight, and we dont know how effective Smoltz will be, and would not be surprised if we get swept, hope I am wrong though!!!
By fastasballs
June 4, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this
I’ll take the over on Muts Fool’s age, however I doubt his IQ reaches double digits. I know a lot of dumb SOB’s that are Muts fans but I doubt they would even claim this guy as their own.
Regardless if Hudson had his “ace stuff” or not they should have won the game. The defense was bad, the worst of course being McCann allowing that pitch to get away.
They should have hung at least 5-6 runs on Obermueler (sp). He was leaving everything up in the zone, they didn’t take advantage of a pitcher who had nothing tonight.
I’m not counting on Buddy C to dazzle the Marlins tomorrow. At least the bullpen wasn’t over worked tonight. If the pen is used early & often tomorrow that will put extra pressure on Smoltz in the second game, that is if he even pitches.
By Braveheart
June 4, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
BRAVEFART. I have been blogging on here for 6 months. Only 3 people have ever called me Bravefart on this blog. The first one was Stinky (he actually apologized when he was posing as Stinky). The second one was No Chop Zone. The third one was Mets Rule, You Drool. I’m gonna take a wild shot in the dark here and say that I know exactly who No Chop and Mets Rule, You Drool is. Call me crazy. I think Brainfart would have been a more clever play on my name but your mind is too literal and juvenile to think like that.
By Manny Met
June 4, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this
Hey joebrave, are you always this stupid or are you making a special effort tonight? I don’t know what makes you so dumb but it really works. I don’t necessarily think you are a fool but what’s my opinion compared to the rest of the blog? You are a stupid person’s idea of a clever person. It’s good you have an open mind but the downside is that ideas must pass right through. In short, you may look like an idiot and write like an idiot but that shouldn’t fool anyone for you really are an idiot. Or as you so aptly put it earlier, “your an idiot!” It’s a shame what public schools are doing to our youth.
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
4 back and pinning our hopes on Buddy Carlyle, that’s not a good feeling. We really need some pitching help - I know who doesn’t? But man…a little trade deadline magic JS, please.
By Ron
June 4, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
Overlord, this is what you said the defense did not do its job, if he was not giving up so much hits, braves position players wouldnt be overexposed in the field.
Damn dude that was f***!ng hillarious!!! braves defense would not be overexposed in the field. CLASSIC, best thing I heard all day, you need to be a comedian, maybe I will see you on t.v. one day dude!!!
By Manny Met
June 4, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this
joebrave, come out and play.
By The Grinch
June 4, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this
“Blog With Carroll.” Congradulations, young lady, on such a headline. Should DOB begin to look over his shoulder?
G’night, all.
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this
Manny met where the he11 did you drag your flea bitten carcass up from the cess pool called Queens? what are you Mutts Fools Daddy? you really should put a leash on that little Ba$tard,or is it that your man crush has been comprimised? you sir should very well know that when one calls out another uninvited one can get his @ss gnawed out..Your kind are the putrid scum of he Earth,you sumbitches are orphans of society,brainless,clueless and insufficiently educated..the streets of Flushing are overrun with the Ignorance of your youth,maybe you worthles noephytes should band together and maybe,just maybe you NCZ,Mutts Fool,Stinky,and the rest of you pandering sumbitches would have an aggragate IQ of say 40!!! what an Ignorant Ba$tard you are!!!!!!!!!
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this
Manny Met,you’re a peckerchomping turd burglar!!! you have to be you are from New York!!!!
By Manny Met
June 4, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
Hey joebrave, you have the brain of a four year old boy and I bet he was glad to be rid of it. While not dumber than an ox you are certainly no smarter either. You have a tiny brain, a big mouth, and nothing worthwhile to say. You are a water bug on the surface of life and would be better served keeping rabbits than exchanging posts on an adult blog. What did you have for breakfast this morning, a brain tumor? Now, go play quietly and leave the blog to adults. Your posts are about as entertaining as watching a potato bake. Hard to believe that out of 100,000 sperm you were the quickest.
By Lew
June 4, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
Concubines? What is this, the 15th Century?
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this
And with that Mary Met,I’ll bid you good people of Braves land adieu for the evening,but you Illiterate,bufoons from the NYC,hey yo suck it B1TCH!!!!!
By Lew
June 4, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-Don’t you realize it’s all the same person?
By ernesto
June 4, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this
this blog needs a met-echtomy. Can’t wait for a Met losing streak so they all crawl back to their spider holes.
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
Mary Met is that all you have for me? what is New York’s greatest contribution to society? hmmmmm… Oh yeah Disco and some 30 years later I’m still laughing my@ss off at that one!!!
By Manny Met
June 4, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
Well, that was too easy.
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this
Mary Met is that all you have for me? what is New York’s greatest contribution to society? hmmmmm… Oh yeah Disco and some 30 years later I’m still laughing my @ss off at that one!!!
By Steve from OH
June 4, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this
Says on the official site that Huddy wasn’t feeling well today before pitching. Even so, tough loss to take, but our pitching is looking better of late. Davies and James have looked well lately, and, seeing as they comprise the same percentage of our rotation as Smoltz and Huddy, I’d say that that’s good news. Jury’s still out on Cormier, but we have the pieces to trade for a SP if we need one. JS knows alot more than all of us, so let’s have a little faith that he’ll make the right call…. BTW-let’s keep the talk to baseball, shall we?
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this
Top of the evening to you Lew,how are you tonight sir?hope you’re better. I agree with you on Davies I too think he’ll be a stud,I just have a lot of reservations on the other 2 left overs… while I agree the Team needs pitching,trades of Salty,and Escobar should never happen!!!
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this
I would also agree the Team needs to look at Fuentes of Colorado,instead of Lidge. Another option would be to give Salty a start at first and move Thor back to left for a couple days…
By joebrave
June 4, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this
Braveheart very good analysis,some trades proposed here are ludacris at best,the one’s that really peeve me are Trade Chipper,and Trade Andruw,these two,and here we go again,HAVE TEN AND FIVE PROTECTION,meaning THEY CANNOT BE TRADED unless they want one!!! Which from what I understand neither of thm wants!!! So with that said Chipper Nor Andruw can or will be TRADED!!!!!!!!
By Manny Met
June 4, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this
Hey joebrave, you are a mouth breather aren’t you? A little too tall for your blood supply? Well, you are a few clowns short of a circus in my book. All foam and no beer. The sad thing is you are depriving a village somewhere of an idiot. When you post the gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn’t coming. If you were any more stupid you’d have to be watered twice a week. And where did you not learn to spell? If your IQ ever reaches 50 you should sell.
By chrisklob
June 4, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this
joebrave, why would bc put thor in left when willie and diaz are hitting 100+ points higher? Thor can sit or perhaps go back to Richmond to re-learn how to hit. IMHO, Thor needs to cease with the Ryan Klesko impersonations.
By MannyMet
June 4, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this
Ludacris? How appropriate.
By chrisklob
June 4, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this
Wow mary met, that’s an awful lot of cliches for one post! Got anything original?
By Manny Met
June 4, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this
Joebrave, I am going to leave you alone now. If you start up insulting other bloggers, though, I will be back and I will bring you to your knobby little knees you mouth breathing little twerp. Have a nice night.
By joebrave
June 5, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this
Mary met,do youself a favor and go away before I get all Rednecked on your ignorant @ss!! I don’t have time for a brainless twit!!that operation your mother got for you was a frontal labotomy!!!!!!!!!!
By joebrave
June 5, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this
Mary Met run along to your three lines,before you turn in to your dumpster for the evening,The soup line,The welfare line,and the coke line……..
By Manny Met
June 5, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this
Joebrave, you wouldn’t leave well enough alone so I am back and your worst nightmares are about to be realized (should have said you’re worst nightmares - I forgot who I am dealing with). Well, it’s “ludacris” isn’t it? Now, how can a little fella like you get all rednecked? We’ve already established that you have limited blood flow to the brain and that little bit passes right through the neck - so there’d already be a shortage there. Understand? And what exactly is a “labotomy”? You been working on your dog again? I notice you posted very politely to Lew awhile ago. If you post to everybody that way I will leave you alone but if you continue to blog like a rude child I will have to take you to task again and again. Now close your mouth and take a deep breath - your (sic) going to have to learn to do this eventually. Twerp.
By Manny Met
June 5, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this
I am going to leave now. Whether or not I return is entirely up to you, joebrave. Be warned. Manny Met out.
-30-
By Carroll Rogers
June 5, 2007 12:28 AM | Link to this
wither journalist jimmy smith? journalist carroll rogers loves your creativity and is not sure she can keep up. but she’s right here. her head is spinning from reading all the trade chipper, trade willie harris, trade salty, trade chuck james, trade fill-in-the-blank talk, that she’s not sure where to jump in. so she’s probably going to avoid that, because the only person to me who both has great trade value and makes sense to trade right now is saltalamacchia. maybe escobar. who’s gonna trade for andruw jones right now? when he’s not hitting and he’s about to be a free agent? the only thing that makes sense about that comment is that andruw jones has a close relationship with ozzie guillen. but was that why the comment was made? i’m thinking no. sometimes i think some of you good folks just like to throw names out without giving it any thought, kind like shopping with monopoly money or something. i was told after the game the CT scan chipper had this morning didn’t show anything new as far as breaks. i’m not inclined to question his manhood over this. he looked earnestly baffled and bothered today when he was talking about this stuff. be exasperated if you want to. it’s exasperating. in the meantime, i say look how great escobar is playing. you really want to sit him for chipper right this minute? oh and thanks for the thoughtful posts on the draft. next time i see roy clark i’ll tell him what you’re telling me: pitching!
By serbok
June 5, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this
Ralph Garr?
By Bob, Journalist
June 5, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this
It’s complex but still begs the question … if one was fatigued and not feeling well … why is one playing?
I could only listen to WGST but it sounded evident in the 2nd that Tim wasn’t sharp.
We could have still won the game, even with Thorman playing … wild pitches and outfield glitches … goodness!
Micromanage if you will but …
No, Willie’s not going to hit .400, Yunel .500 or Matt .350 … but I like our chances when they’re at the plate. With Yunel, Edgar, Kelley, Matt, Brian, Willie and Frenchy … and with Salty, Prado and Chipper on the bench … our only weak spot would be Andruw when he’s in a funk … and we could live with that!
Seriously, it really doesn’t matter much to me who plays but we obviously have some expendables that need expending. I like it when I can feel good about our chances regardless of who’s in the batter’s box … each and everyone of us can put together a lineup from our current 40 players that can consistently compete with anyone and be the envy of most!
It’s hard for me to imagine good reasons for our not so doing … we’re going to lose some but the rare potential for a lineup without a weak link is there!
By serbok
June 5, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this
Oh My! For heaven goodness To Betsey! Come on guys!!!!!!! ANDREW CaNNOT BE Traded! He is a 10/5 guy!
come on guys?????????
By serbok
June 5, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this
By Bob, Journalist
Seriously, it really doesn’t matter much to me who plays but we obviously have some expendables that need expending.
I loved that post!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!! Thanx Bob:o)
By joebrave
June 5, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this
Ohh!Mary the fairy Mutt,now I’m shaking!!Now what’s a peckermunching sumbitch like you going to do to me? I don’t swing nothing but a right cross,and left upper cut,maybe a horsehair necktie but that’s about it. so lose your man crush on me very quickly!!!!!!!!!
By Lew
June 5, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this
JoeBrave-I’m doing fine-just tired of Mets. We have enough crazy persons of our own with all this trade everyone crap and don’t need any psychopaths drooling around here. Maybe I should just take your suggestion and go fishing. Right now I think I’ll just go to bed. Carry on Wayward Son.
By serbok
June 5, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this
By Bob, Journalist
Seriously, it really doesn’t matter much to me who plays but we obviously have some expendables that need expending.
I couldnt agree more!
By parks
June 5, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, that 10:42 post was freakin classic!
By Coach
June 5, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this
It’s the 4th of June and we are still giving games way. Hey guys , unless you enjoy playing a ton of golf in October , you had best get it in gear.
By David O'Brien
June 5, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this
I second Parks’ comment. Braveheart’s 10:42 post is one to be saved for posterity. And hilarity. That’s just classic stuff.
By Help Wanted !
June 5, 2007 1:29 AM | Link to this
Position: First base. Qualifications: Good glove , big bat with 25-30 HR potential , .275 batting average or better preferred. Send resume to Turner Field A.S.A.P
By Wayne in Utah
June 5, 2007 1:58 AM | Link to this
Hello Ms. Carroll! Thanks again for the wonderful plug last month. Nice job on the draft coverage. Personally, I think Shaun should give us an analysis on the ENTIRE draft for the last 20 years, not just first rounders. That is the real gauge for our scouting department.
DOB Agreed on the 10:42pm post!
Just a few thoughts. Did I read on the Braves website that Hudson was sick tonight? Also, Escobar is looking great, but is only 3 games. Let’s ride him as long as we can.
Same for Willie. Love to see him maintain, and hope he does, but expecting a more realistic yearly average of 260-280. Also, Diaz I think is a great part time player. I suspect that full time employment might bring him back to earth. Didn’t he get something done with his eyes or contacts or something to that affect in the spring of 06???
Thorman might never amount to much, but we can’t throw him out this soon. Not enought time. Go to the Baseball Almanac and check out Hall of Fame third basemen. One in particular in his first full year, had the following stats: 367 AB’s, 18 HR’s, 52 RBI’s, 196 BA, 324 OBP, 373 SLG, and 136 Strike Outs!!!
Wondering??? Do you know???
I bet the Phillies are glad they didn’t listen to their fans back then and send Mike Schmidt packing.
On a lesser basis, Matt Williams with the Giants in the late 80’s got off to an auspicious start, but had a very nice career. So, let’s cut Scottie a little bit of slack. If we want to platoon him, fine, but let’s give him a chance.
This last point I made is why I get frustrated with the blog sometimes. Many are WAY TOO short term oriented. Escobar hits 2-4, 0-4, and 4-4, and one day he is great, the next day, lets trade him, and the third day, let’s trade Chipper……
DonC I would have to say I think we need to exhibit some patience with Davies. I think he has the potential to be a solid #3, who knows, maybe a #2. BUT, we do need to remember this is really his second go. Hard to count last year, what with the groin and all. I expect him to puke all over himself at least a few more times this year, mixed in with some decent starts. How many did Glavine lose in his first full year???? 18?? I am too lazy to look it up.
Sorry for such a long post.
Hello JoeBrave and all my other good friends out there.
PS: NO FRICKIN WAY do we need to try to get guys like Texiera or Buerhle. Too many $$ for these guys. We are on a budget.
By Wayne in Utah
June 5, 2007 2:12 AM | Link to this
DOB Somebody last night or the night before mentioned that Jeff Conine might be a good addition. Do you think he could be had from Cincy for a Tyler Yates or equivalent??? I have always liked Conine.
Also, do you think that the Braves have a master plan for the next month or so, or are they just playing it as it comes? With Thorman/Salty/Escobar and some of the other bench guys??? As much as I appreciate Bobby’s loyalty to some players, I would love to see us give Orr his walking papers, bring up Brayan Pena, so that Bobby could tinker with Saltalamacchia some more. Or, are they showcasing him?? Personally, when you have a stud guy like Salty, I think the ONLY way you deal him is if you get a total stud in return (ala Matt Cain or Jake Peavy type). You might have to add a top prospect into the mix (Reyes, Devine, etc) but that is the ONLY way I trade a guy like Salty.
Last question: Is Escobar older than he is reported???? Just remembering some other latin players and their age discrepancies.
BTW, if it is too late to answer any of these questions, I completely understand. IT IS LATE even here in Montana.
By Bob, Journalist
June 5, 2007 2:14 AM | Link to this
Something wierd is going on … it’s the third time in the last 12 hours that I’ve submitted a post … received a server not found message without losing my Internet connection and diddn’t get posted.
Serbok you’re a genteel fountain of wisdom who obviously appreciates skill, fine art and craftsmanship!
I must say that while Andruw can’t be traded without his permission … he could given a few days off until he learns to say Yes Sir! to the hitting coach.
Bed for Lew, hot tub for me!
Goodnight Miss Allen
By Coach
June 5, 2007 2:16 AM | Link to this
Thorman’s last ten games. 5 for 36 , .138 AVG with 2 RBI and 13 K’s. He has left 17 runners on base in his last ten games , not coincidently the Braves are 4-6 in that stretch and been outscored 50-46.
By Jared
June 5, 2007 7:17 AM | Link to this
The Braves should, and probably will, take Smoker with the 14th pick. It makes sense. Smoker is a project first-rounder, from Georgia, most experts have the Braves going for him and he’s exactly what they need: a pitcher.
By Jeff R
June 5, 2007 7:38 AM | Link to this
I don’t know how management thinks, but Thorman’s an interim solution. He’s never going to hit well enough to justify a long run at 1B. Management needs to keep working Salty into the mix at first, see what he can do there. Chipper, give the guy his due: he’s a gamer who contributed mightily during some of the team’s best seasons, but he’s no longer an everyday player. For his sake and the team’s, he needs to platoon. His body, evidently, can’t take the wear and tear, and Escobar’s can. I’d rather see Cox pace Chipper than playing him onto the DL every six weeks.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 8:00 AM | Link to this
Does anyone have any objections on trying Escobar at first?
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this
Jared,
Yes, Keith Law is projecting the Braves will take Josh Smoker a LHP out of Calhoun. He also says, “An alternative here is Tennessee outfielder Julio Borbon, and of course, they’d love a shot at [Henry County OF Jason Heyward.]”
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this
Jeff R,
Thorman is never going to hit? The guy hit at every level in the minors and did a fine job the first month or so of this season in the majors. He’ll come around and will be about as valuable as LaRoche was. Keep in mind he’s only 25. It’s a mistake to assume he won’t get better.
By Eric
June 5, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this
Trade up to #4 and pick Matt Weiters. He has a fresh arm if you want him to pitch and he can play multiple positions including catcher.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this
Thorman is in just as bad (maybe worse) of a slmp that Andruw was in. The only difference is that this is his first full season in the bigs. He’ll come around. But, for his sake (and the Braves), it needs to happen SOON.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this
Thorman will only get better ‘cause he’s only 25…untill he turns 26, when he’ll start to decline. :-)
We play Detroit this year, don’t we? Anyone else here sincerely hope Soriano sends Gary “I’m a douchebag” Sheffield a message with a heater to the kneecap (hitting him in the head wouldn’t affect anything)?
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this
Eric,
Teams can’t trade picks in baseball.
And Wieters is likely going to be a catcher in the pros. He’s a switch-hitter with power (sound familiar?). I doubt the Braves would take him, if they have a chance. They have McCann and Salty plus Wieters is a Boras client.
He would be a good investment, even if you have to pay him Boras money, but the Braves don’t need him. Why take a guy that you have to pay that much when you’re already set at that position for the next decade or so?
And if you are thinking about the Braves drafting and trading him, if the Braves draft him, they’re stuck with him for a year.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this
AWFUL LOSS LAST NIGHT
By Mel Kiper's Hair
June 5, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this
Umm…Eric, MLB doesn’t allow trading of draft picks, but other than that it’s a great idea. I’m sure that the new ownership would gladly write a check for the 10 million dollars that Scott Boras is reportedly asking for as a bonus. Plus, the idea of having two switch hitting cathers behind an established all-star is probably a good idea, too….I’m sold, great idea.
By jbmlaw
June 5, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this
Forgive the distraction, I wish to take a blog moment to speak on Clete Boyer. I met Mr. Boyer last summer on a Sunday afternoon in Cooperstown, NY. It was a slow day – he was selling autographed baseballs – and after buying a ball I engaged conversation with one of the heroes of my youth. His handler pointed out that Mr. Boyer had so-many World Series rings as the third baseman for the Yankees, but I mentioned that in my part of the country we think of Mr. Boyer as an Atlanta Brave. Mr. Boyer opened up when I mentioned that in my neighborhood we had a perpetual debate on who was the best defensive third baseman, Clete or Brooks. He told me all about his happy relationship with Ted Turner, and that he lived in Buford, half-way between his two daughters in the Atlanta area. I asked him about growing up in a baseball household, and his famous older brothers; he told me of a hard-scrabble early life in rural Oklahoma. Great, charming fellow.
By MEB
June 5, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this
Carroll… please write the name of Troy University standout Josh Dew on the dry erase board in the draft war room. Josh is a senior, 6-5, 225, right hander, who was the Sun Belt Conference Pitcher of the Year as a closer and led the country in strikeouts (13.89) per nine innings. This guy has a major league slider that is something to behold. Dew is on the Roger Clemens Award and Brooks Wallace Award lists and is a candidate for the Dick Howser Player of the Year Award.
We are counting on you Carroll to protect the future of our beloved Braves. Thanks!!!
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this
Smoker isn’t in the top 25 overall players in a couple of draft lists that I have seen. But, you never know in these drafts. I hope is is projected to be a power arm. I also hope the Braves can find a college pitcher that can make an impact quicker rather than later like Lincecum of the Giants (his last start not withstanding).
By journalist jimmy smith
June 5, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this
oh, the humanity! journalist carroll rogers, this journalist is also a fan of carroll rogers and carroll rogers’ third person posts are of exceedingly good quality. jimmy smith is impressed! and jimmy smith is flattered.
and journalist would point out to friend braveheart that ralph garr has good career numbers, too, but the numbers mean nothing if not in the lineup. and whither the hammock bone? and who on this blog claims to have a hammock bone or bones? and journalist carroll rogers, is chipper able to wear pants at this time? and who will pull on the cowboy boots? and wouldn’t being with chipper’s horse make chipper feel better? and has carroll rogers ever been to the double dime ranch?
and now, chipper pipp(er)? nah, could never happen.
now, more baseball … the finger to the nose. could it be a sign? steal? bunt? when the thumb disappears is that a sign? and now, pie … should not follow nose picking with pie, but, time is limited. what is the favorite summer-time pie of the bloggers?
By Berigan
June 5, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this
jbmlaw, nice story about Clete Boyer! His brother Kenny, was quite the 3rd baseman as well, but a bit before my time. He was the manager of the Cards for 3 years as well. My Mom met Kenny , when he and other St. Louis celebs were signing balls on a street downtown for charity! (I know, weird huh?) She said he was the nicest of all the local celebs see met that day. Ma and Pa Boyer raised their kids right….
By Berigan
June 5, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this
Shawn,
Interesting, I did not know you couldn’t trade up or down in the baseball draft! I wonder why? IF espn and baseball want to make the draft a bigger deal, they should
change some rules to make it a bit more interesting. Now, if we could only do away with the aluminum bat(Why is it even used today?)
IF we could trade up, this would be the guy…man, imagine if Tampa Bay can keep Kasmir and Shields healthy, and can add this guy…..they really will be competing with the Yankees and Sox in 2 years! http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;ylt=AmgR.frwaa4.HagKZ_br4gRvLYF?slug=jp-price060407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
By journalist jimmy smith
June 5, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this
clete boyer played excellent third base for the braves and was once kissed by morganna. if morganna came on field and kissed chipper, chipper would be lost for the season.
By Coach
June 5, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
Food for thought , the San Diego Padres have eight of the first eighty-seven draft picks. It will be interesting to look back four or five years from now and see what kind of impact this draft has on their organization.
By Mel Kiper's Hair
June 5, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this
Smoker isn’t a power lefty. Everything I’ve seen says he’s got the best curveball in the draft, but is more of a high 80’s, low 90’s velo guy instead of the mid-to-high 90’s velo of the big power names in the draft. There are reports that he was 82-86 in his last start, though…cause for concern or trying to lower his value to last to the hometown Braves? He’s a high school arm, so he’s no help to the big league club for another 4 years. The best bet for early, and high, returns is David Price who will probably be drafted #1 overall.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine,
It’s just so tough to predict pitching that I doubt the Braves would have a college pitcher that can make an impact soon in mind. And it’s not a good idea to draft based on major league needs because most draft-eligible players are at least 3-5 years from the big leagues (if they make it). Obviously there are a few exceptions—for example I don’t see the Braves taking a high-impact catcher like Wieters because he would be blocked by McCann and Salty, even if he was cheap and available.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
Agreed. But, other teams are able to find those diamonds in the rough…why not the Braves who are known for scouting and player development? I think the team has some pitching prospects that could pan out. But, a team like the Sox have been able to find Paplebon, Lester, and they have another guy by the name of Buchholz that is tearing it up in the minors.
The Braves used to have the luxury of drafting high school pitchers because of two very important factors: they had excellent rotations and deep pockets. Neither one of those are true now. We still have the foundation to have a solid rotation, and we don’t have the money to go spend on free agent pitchers like a Greg Maddux.
I guess my only point is that I am wondering if the draft strategy has or should change a little bit due to the current circumstances.
Regards,
Jason
By Patrick
June 5, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
DOB,
What’s the deal with Chipper??? In the game notes posted last night things aren’t looking good….
Also, what are the chances that Bobby puts Jarrod in there at 1st today?
By FLBRAVESFAN
June 5, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
Sorry to join the party late. The only thing more painful than having to listen to Marlin’s excuses for announcers was watching our first baseman. If he had just touched the ball once or twice last night, it’s a win. We keep saying it’s too soon to panic. He’s had 283 major league at bats and is averaging .227!
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
I see that in the last 3 games Bryan Pena has started at 3B, LF, and C…
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Mel Kiper’s Hair,
I’ve ready that Smoker’s velocity decrease may be a smokescreen. That’s what Keith Law says, anyway. Who knows? I wonder how often that actually happens or if any punishment could come if MLB found out the draft was being fixed by player and team. I’m sure it would be tough to prove.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
If this team doesn’t make significant changes (upgrade rotation, replace 1B, get better backup infielders) they will not make the post season. Remember the Mets swept the Marlins last week while we were getting swept by the Phillies. Now, the Braves can’t even beat the Marlins with Hudson pitching. This season is starting to unravel…
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this
Josh Smoker. What a perfect name for a pitcher :)
Geaux Braves!!
By Lew
June 5, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
JeffR-Dude, we’ve gone through this before. Just how in the world would resting Chipper have made any difference whatsoever saving him from the thumb injury or what happened when he slid on a wet field in SF last year? These were not injuries related to fatigue or chronic problems like his feet or hamstrings (which never gave him grief after leaving the outfield). You can park this post somewhere to the south of Nelson’s stupid trade scenarios. Think before you post, Dude. Rest wouldn’t make any difference with Chipper’s DL stint. Would you like to trade Andruw, too?
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
Berigan,
The draft is never going to be that interesting because these players aren’t going to make an impact in the majors for several years, at best. Maybe two or three guys may reach the majors in a year or two, but that’s about it.
And draft position doesn’t matter as much in baseball (except for maybe the first pick) because the “big-name” guys are going to ask for huge signing bonuses which push their draft position down and it’s almost as likely that you’ll get a major leaguer in the later rounds than in the first.
It’s interesting to hard-core baseball fans and maybe if there are a few local guys in the mix of top players but it’s never going to be as interesting as the NFL or NBA draft to football and basketball fans.
As for aluminum bats, I’m pretty sure they are used purely for economic reasons. And I’m pretty sure they have rules now to make sure players aren’t doing things to make the ball jump off of them.
By michael of b'ham
June 5, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Looks like the Braves went to Wrigley and caught a case of the Cubs!
By Lew
June 5, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Bailey-Sure, let’s change Escobar’s position, too. Let’s move Thorman to left, Diaz or Chipper to first, Andruw to short, McCann somewhere else, Francouer to center and let’s let Harris catch. Maybe Smoltz can play second base and Hudson can coach first. Maybe Eddide Perez can manage and TP can be the pitching coach. Make Robert happy and let BC sell peanuts in the stands. Good Lord.
By Paul Hamilton
June 5, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this
What round was McCann and Salty drafted??? What about Tom Glavine and David Justice? Just curious.
By AthensBrave
June 5, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
How much more time do we give Thorman at 1st base by himself? He’s been coming up at huge spots and striking out..not even advancing runners. I’d like to see Salty in there more
By Paul Hamilton
June 5, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this
Oh and Renegator, the Braves have always struggled against the Marlins. Nothing new there. They always seem to have our number. I think they play harder against us than they do most other teams.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Oh yeah-I almost forgot. Let’s send Salty back to AA to take over as manager for Wellman while he’s on suspension.
By Gil In Mechanicsville
June 5, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
Good morning folks, Speaking from personal experience, I once suffered an injury similar to Chippers to only my right hand. It came as a result of blocking a punt. Hurt like hell for months. Made little difference in being able to play football but it did force me to learn how to write left handed as I could not grip a pencil.
Be glad there is someone like Escobar to fill in. Braves defense was the culprit last night. Perhaps the Braves need to hire Charles Johnson to coach McCann on how to block pitches in the dirt. He was one of the best I have ever seen at doing that.
As for Thorman’s fielding, their were two similar balls that went under Escobar’s glove as well. Perhaps the experts on the blog just don’t have the patience necessary to allow a rookie to play in the line up. I would suggest you all become Yankee fans so you can just bash the high dollar vets Steinbrenner prefers.
Baseball is a game that is based on the probability of failure. If you look at stats (Shaun) you will discover the odds of being successful are poorer than those of being successful.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine,
They still draft plenty of high school pitchers—3 of their first 4 picks last year, 3 of their first 6 in 2005. 2004 is really the only year this decade that they haven’t drafted a lot of HS pitchers with their first 6-10 picks.
I don’t know, I haven’t done enough research on the draft but it seems like sometimes teams just get lucky with pitching. It’s just too difficult to know which players will become something in the majors, especially HS pitchers.
I’m not sure what you mean by they had the luxury to draft HS pitchers. Not trying to be a smart a—, but I just need some clarification. I don’t see where it’s a luxury to be able to draft HS pitchers. I mean a lot of teams try not to use up early picks where they’re going to have to give big bonuses on high school pitchers because the odds are highly against them becoming big leaguers.
By NO CHOP ZONE
June 5, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
You can’t argue with LEW because the only good ideas are his.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Paul Hamilton,
McCann- 2nd Round
Saltalamacchia -1st Round
Glavine - 2nd Round
Justice - 4th Round
By Gil In Mechanicsville
June 5, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
And one last note as we are allowed to talk about other topics with impunity on this blog.
No offense to the Magic but I do hope you let Donovan out of his contract so he can return to Florida. It is only because I am selfish and would like to have Anthony Grant remain at Virginia Commonwealth for a few more seasons.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
Did any of you really pay attention the other day when Salty played first? The Dude is not ready to play the position at the ML level. If you want to change his position, it is going to require sending him back to the minors for instruction. I’ve heard several people here griping about Thorman’s first base play-just how soon do you think it would take for the b!tching to begin when Salty makes another error there? I’d give it seconds rather than minutes. You just can’t keep changing positions like musical chairs. Despite what Shaun asserts about how easy it is to play first or left, it takes time to learn what you’re doing. Acclimation, Grasshoppers, acclimation and familarity.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
Chop Zone-Ever the Drooling Fool. You might actually carry some weight if you had ever had an idea. Whine Little Mosquito, whine. Drone on and on.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this
Gil In Mechanicsville,
I agree. Thorman has hit everywhere. He has one bad month and a lot of people are ready to get rid of him and give the job to someone else.
Look at Red Sox 2B Dustin Pedroia. He hit .182 AVG/.308 OBP/ .236 SLG in the first month of the season. Imagine if the Sox had assumed that he isn’t going to cut it. They wouldn’t be reaping the benefits of a secondbaseman hitting .331/.404/.468.
Trust a guy’s overall abilities over what he may do in one month.
By Mel Kiper's Hair
June 5, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
It happens all the time. Teams put out false info or have the player do it to manipulate their draft status. The Braves admitted to doing it with Francoeur, using his Clemson scholarship and his claim that he wanted a huge bonus to have him fall to their spot in the draft, but weren’t punished. It’s like having an “advisor” nowadays, having an agent ruins your NCAA eligibility, but every top prospect has one but calls them their “advisor.” Their not supposed to negotiate with teams, but every team knows they’ll have to deal with one. There are a lot of problems with the MLB draft due to the strength of the players union and agents, but there’s very little the MLB can do about it.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Lew…moving Escobar was just a thought. If he is going to hit like he has, (albeit for 3 games) he need to be in there somewhere when (IF) Chipper comes back. If not, then he need to be traded to bring in some SP.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Mosquito Boy-Answer me this. If , supposing, you were on a Mets’ Blog (novel concept there) and someone suggested moving Beltran to catcher, LoDuca to short and REys to bat boy, what would your response be? No different here you whining, droning, drooling Little Weasel. The moves are dumb when proposed here and would be just as dumb if they were posted on a Mets’ Blog. Why don’t you go check and see?
By Braves20
June 5, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
Know it’s early but sometimes you don’t need a big sample to tell that someone has the tools. Escobar has to stay up when Chipper returns. If it means we admit we made a mistake with Woodward, so be it. Escobar gives us coverage on the left side and a right handed bat off the bench (who usually connects) and Orr can back up second and provide a lefty bat and speed. Woodward provides little of anything.
By geauxbraves2000
June 5, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
I too am in the “Give Thorman some time” corner. I hope we didn’t all expect him to hit .350/35/120. As he matures, he will learn to make adjustment as pitchers make adjustments against him. He will learn to cut down on his swing, and he will learn when advancing a runner is all that is required at certain times.
I’m sure we all didn’t excel our 1st day on the job. Especially trying to hit ML pitching. I don’t know how those guys do it.
Geaux Braves!!
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Shaun - Its not one bad month for Thorman - his career average (283 ABs) is .226. That’s a good half year worth of ABs. There is nothing there - he is a typical AAAA player.
By Ron Roberts
June 5, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
I think I know why folks don’t like Scott Thorman, though; he reminds a lot of people of Ryan Klesko. I’ll admit, RK annoyed the crap outta me, with his over-the-top swinging-for-the-fences Babe Ruth-ian swing.
Thorman’s swing appears similar, but Shuan’s right; he’s been productive everywhere he’s been, and he’s had a bad month at the MLB level. Let’s also consider he’d been asked to play more against lefties when we chukked Craig Wilson, so there was to be some expected offensive struggles.
Lew… give up trying to talk rationally to the Saltamaniacs here. They want the guy to play 1B now, even if that means errors at the position.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
Don Mattingly - retired at 34 years old, declining health and production from the age of 29. Will Clark - retired at 36 years old, declining health from the age of 29. Kirby Puckett - retired at 35 years old for health reasons. Lenny Dykstra - retired at 33 years old. Jeff Bagwell - done at 36. Jose Canseco - done at 36. Mark McGwire - done at 37. Ryne Sandberg - done at 37. Roberto Alomar - done at 36. John Olerud - done at 36. George Brett - no longer Brett past the age of 37. Dwight Evans - no longer Dwight Evans past the age of 37. Robin Yount - retired at 37, but really done at age 33. Jim Rice - retired at 36 but really done at 33 years. David Justice - retired at 36. Tino Martinez - retired at 37. Dale Murphy - retired at 37 but really done at 31. Joe Torre - retired at 36. Mickey Mantle - retired at 36. Joe D. - retired at 36. Barry Larkin - retired at 40 but done at 36. Lou Gehrig - retired at 36. Albert Belle - retired at 33. Ken Griffey, Jr - injury prone from the age 30 onward. And so on and so on and so on.
So, JJS, appreciate the years you got left with Chipper - there ain’t many left. Stop taking cheap shots at Chipper. Stop insinuating that he is being a drama queen. Stop questioning his desire, integrity, and intestinal fortitude. He is just breaking down the way all ballplayers break down at his age. The fact that he gets hurts alot at 35 years old should not be shocking to anyone who is a true baseball fan. The shocking part for you should be that he is still playing at such a high production level when he is healthy. He is playing better at his age than almost every single great player I put on the list above. Get off his back already. You are riding the guy so hard, it is weird.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
Bailey-Like you say. He’s played three games. If he goes hitless for three more, how long before he will be a AAA reject, just like Prado. You can’t keep switching player’s positions. It is a totally unfeasable thing to do. Players spend years learning a position and you can’t keep switching them around to suit whims and current needs. I f Chipper keeps going on the DL, then Escobar will get plenty of playing time. If not, Renteria’s contract runs out in another year or so (I think there’s an 09 option). Chipper is only under contract another two years. If Escobar is, indeed that good, then he will be a starter soon enough
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
Did any of you really pay attention the other day when Salty played first? The Dude is not ready to play the position at the ML level. If you want to change his position, it is going to require sending him back to the minors for instruction.
You know he needs to be sent to the minors to learn firstbase after watching him for two innings?
I’m with you completely that Thorman should be given more than two months to prove himself but how in the world do you know that Salty would need to be sent to the minors to play first? Do you think he’s a complete idiot? This is not some overweight, DH-type. This is a young, nimble major league catcher.
Have you been listening to the broadcasts; the announcers saying he takes grounders at first everyday? He could handle it, if the Braves need him there. Is he going to be Keith Hernandez? Probably not. But he could handle it if he had to.
It’s not like if the Braves stick him at first he’s going to forget how to catch a baseball thrown from a position player. And I’m sure he’s been playing baseball since, I don’t know, maybe the age of 5 or 6. I’m sure he knows where the firstbaseman is supposed to go on a double down the rightfield line.
Also, I never said it was easy to play first or left. I said it was easier than most other positions on the field and I’m pretty sure a young, nimble major league catcher who has been taking groundballs everyday could handle firstbase adequately.
By NO CHOP ZONE
June 5, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
LEW should be ticketed for BWI (Blogging While Intoxicated).
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
Renegator,
He’s 25-years-old. Do you expect his career average to stay at .226? Yes, he’s had 283 AB but those AB came when he was 25-1/2 and younger. What can he do in his peak years?
This is yet another example of stats being used irresponsibly. Don’t look at just AB and AVG and ignore age and what he’s done at every level or pro ball.
By 1957 Braves Fan
June 5, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
Braves need to at least split the doubleheader today.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
What I meant is what I said:
They could afford to draft high school pitchers as a result of their major league staffs. If you have 3 established aces anchoring your staff for a decade (Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux), you can draft players that will have longer development cycles. If you also have a seemingly unending budget like the Braves did under Ted and are consistently a big time player in the free agent market, you can draft players that will take longer to develop. When you have neither of these luxuries and are in need of dipping into the minors on a yearly basis to find contributors to the big club, in theory the amount of time you can wait for players to develop shortens.
For example, teams like the A’s draft according to a shortened development cycle and try and find players they think will have a more immediate impact.
Regards,
Jason
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
As much as it scares me - I agree with Shaun on something. I think Salty could handle playing 1B if he was put there today. Will he make some errors? Sure. But I bet he make some good plays too.
I just hate that McCann has already been solidified as the catcher of the future. It seems his defense is suspect and when was the last time he actually threw out a runner who was stealing? Salty has a MUCH better arm behind the plate and it is sad to see it go to waste.
By Fred from CT
June 5, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
if salty isn’t the answer at first then we need to trade for a first baseman. thorman is lost right now and all he does is swing for the fences. he has no range on defense. He is hurting the team.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
Lame. Real lame. Can’t believe you laid out the hind-sight 20/20 thing on Wainwright… I see Klesko is having a good year, guess we should of hung on to him. Take some comfort in this though Carroll. We also sent Jason Shiell to San Diego in that Klesko deal. He boomaranged on us to come back and suck wind last season. Had he had 1 good game this season for some other team we’d be crying right now right? I’ll take the play off birth over keeping a minor league player. I’d like to have a 100 man roster with the deepest bench in history but the rules won’t allow. In the meantime JS will continue to build a strong orginization and put a team with a chance to win out on the field. And since you over looked a key part of the end results… Nancy Drew had his single best season in Atlanta and we recieved draft picks for him in the off season. We got the win. We got the play off birth. We got a shot at the WS. We got more draft picks. We got excellent production. Wainwright had a good post season last year. Not a bad trade at all.
I do want to thank you for clearing up the Baez trade. I thought we got a draft pick for him. I saw some complaining about losing Betemit for AWOL and Baez. We have control of AWOL for a while. Hopefully he’ll come around and get back to playing ball. Baez allowed us an extra pick which was a sweet move on JS’s part. We had no shot last year. We needed bullpen help. We got to try Baez out and see what he could bring. He brought a draft pick. All the Dodgers got was a hole at 3B which they’ve attempted to plug with nearly anything in arms reach.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
I agree that Escobar should not be moved…I was just asking if anyone was thinking that. Also, you are right about Renteria’s contract, but Escobar is NOT the Braves SS of the future. That is Elvis Andrus. He is said to be 3 years away before this year started. Which means the year Renteria leaves, he will be ready. I would not be opposed to letting Escobar be the 3B of the future when Chipper hangs it up. Escobar will be interesting trade bait if he keeps hitting like this.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
Finally some intelligent comments. Ron Roberts-No pleasing the Saltamaniacs for sure. Braveheart-I agree. Chipper is getting older, but hardly ready for the scrap heap. Braves20-Yes, I would dump Woodward and keep Escobar, but we can’t expect Escobar to hit like last night the rest of his career. He definitely has a Babe for a Wife, though, no matter how he hits from here on out. I also agree that Thorman needs some time. I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating. If you had a job you trained years for and got off to a slow start after a couple of months, should you be fired? Give the guy a chance. Remember, LaRoche didn’t come out his first year and hit 32 HR. It took him several years to reach that point. It must have something to do with watching too much TV and laying too many video games. Not everything has a solution in a half hour or an hour. Sometimes patience is required.
By beachcomber
June 5, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
Braveheart - Your 11:03 post. Well said. But while Chipper’s out, that Escobar kid is fun to watch. Batting stance reminds me of Tony Perez - doubt he’ll ever have that much power - but fun to watch!
By Lew
June 5, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
Excuse me-That should have been PLAYING video games, not laying video games. However, when you’re dealing with Chop Zone and his incessant chatter about wet dreams, one must surely wonder.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
While I have been one of the bloggers pining for Salty to get time at 1B, I found the following from Buster Olney’s blog interesting as it certainly supports theories espoused by Ron Roberts and others:
“Johnny Damon continues to work out at first base, although I’d bet that in the end, there will be a lot more written about Damon’s possibly playing first than Damon’s actually playing first. It’s not an easy position to learn, and the Yankees saw last year with Gary Sheffield that you can’t expect a guy to learn how to play the position in-season. He might get some playing time there this year, but this feels more like prep for 2008 than a substantive shift for 2007.”
Regards,
Jason
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
Tim Hudson is batting .214 this year…
Our starting 1B is batting .219…
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine,
I can’t speak for entire organizations but I believe HS vs. college has more to do with philosophies.
The Braves feel confident in their player development program and prefer to draft more high school players than other organizations because they like to train players their way from an early age.
The A’s draft more college players early because college players are less risky. College hitters are the most likely draft-eligible group (out of college hitters, college pitchers, high school hitters and high school pitchers) to reach the majors and become something.
When you have to reach into your farm system more than other teams, you just want good players, whether they were drafted out of high school or college.
By Natural Level
June 5, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
The Natural Level Principle.
What is it? Simply put as it applies to baseball, it’s the natural level that a given team will play to.
For the sake of argument, I feel that the Mets have a higher natural level than the Braves. Overall by position and pitching staff, I feel the Mets are stronger than the Braves. The Braves have some players who would win at a position, but overall, the Mets are stronger.
Does this mean the Mets will win the East? Not necessarily. It does say, however, that the Braves must play at or above their level more often than the Mets play at their level to win the East.
Each team will play some stinkers. The Braves have to play fewer stinkers than the Mets to beat the Mets for the East, it’s that simple.
If the Mets are a team with a natural level of 8, then the Braves are probably a level 6 or 7. The Mets can play at a level 7 and still keep the Braves at bay. So in essence, the Braves need to play some level 8 games to gain on the Mets when the Mets are playing at level 7.
The problem is that a couple of other teams that are contending for the Wild Card are a 6 or 7 as well, right there with the Braves.
So after I have totally confused you, what is my point?
My point is we can’t afford too many games like last night. We have to be able to win those games. While Hudson’s ERA showed a different result from last night, anyone who watched the game knows that the defense lost that game. Hudson pitched well enough to win. Think about it, what if we lost the Wild Card by a game at the end of the season. Would last night’s game be important? Some would say that it would be no more important than other games we lost but I disagree. Some games, you’re gonna lose. Sometimes you’re not going to hit. Sometimes, the opposition is going to put two touchdowns on the board. Those game are inevitable.
To separate yourselves from the other contenders, you have to play to your level or above more often than the opposition. Many more games like last night and the Braves will be scratching their butts at the end of the season wondering what happened rather than getting ready for the playoffs. Losses like last night are unacceptable or should be unacceptable by anyone’s standards.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
Shaun: There are plenty of 25 & 26 year old major leaguers that can hit higher than .226. I don’t have time to pull them all up but I’d bet there are hundreds of them.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
Payne: I think Salty could handle 1B just fine. But I wouldn’t be opposed to them sending him down. If he is sent down he can get daily in-game experience at 1B. I think it could only help him. A couple of weeks maybe just to get him in the grove a little more wouldn’t hurt. I believe Salty will be the first basemen of the future though. I love Thor. Love his hustle. But if you have to choose between a lefty or a switch hitter, you pick the switch hitter. Especially if you’re Cox, looking for the lefty-righty advantage. I don’t think Salty will be traded though. If he is to be traded, I’d imagine that would happen in the offseason after the AJ situation has been settled.
I’m liking Yunel. Our bench is getting stronger and stronger. When Chipper comes back, they should send down Orr, or release Woodward. I’d be more prone to releasing Woodward. Orr can run. He can’t steal. But at least he can score from 1st or 2nd if needs be. At the start of the season the Bench was Orr, Woodward, Wilson, Langerhans/Diaz and Pena. With Willie Harris on the team, Woodward becomes expendable meaing we can bring Pena back up. A bench of Yunel, Salty, Harris/Diaz, Orr and Pena would be a strong bench. That’d give us depth at Catcher, 1B and LF as well as all the other infield positions with Harris, Yunel and Orr.
As for McCann and throwing out runners… It isn’t all on the Catcher to get the runner out. The pitcher and first basemen play a role in this. The Runner could get a helluva jump on the pitcher leaving even the best catcher in history with no shot at gunning him down. As far as defense between the two guys, from everything I’ve read, McCann is the better back stop. He plays a sounder Catcher and calls a better game. But I do love Salty’s cannon. The man can throw. I guess this is the type of probelm you want to have. I’d rather be stuck with two great options than no good option at all.
By Brian20
June 5, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
Scott Thorman is killing us, he is a Pinch Hitter at best. He is nothing more than a poor mans Darryl Ward. You can talk about SP all you want, but we have to fill the 1B void right now and we can do that with Salty. Give him some time there.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
JasoninMaine They could afford to draft high school pitchers as a result of their major league staffs. If you have 3 established aces anchoring your staff for a decade (Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux), you can draft players that will have longer development cycles. If you also have a seemingly unending budget like the Braves did under Ted and are consistently a big time player in the free agent market, you can draft players that will take longer to develop. When you have neither of these luxuries and are in need of dipping into the minors on a yearly basis to find contributors to the big club, in theory the amount of time you can wait for players to develop shortens. For example, teams like the A’s draft according to a shortened development cycle and try and find players they think will have a more immediate impact.
I’m jealous. That was some spot on analysis. I wish I could have thought of that kind of analysis myself. It makes alot of sense to me. A great way to draw the distinctions between the mindset of two teams based upon the financial circumstances and roster circumstances of their respective organizations.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
Aside from Glavine and (sort of) Smoltz - I think the Braves do a better job of aquiring pithcing talent than developing it.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine If Damon is working out at first, that means the Yankee$$$ will have an opening in CF for a certain Bora$$ client next year, right?
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
JasonInMaine,
One problem, Johnny Damon is a CF. He’s used to catching fly balls. Sheffield was an OF used to catching fly balls.
Also, Olney forgot to mention Sheff only made one error in 57 innings at first.
He’s right, it’s not an easy position to learn. But it’s relatively easy for a young major league catcher who takes grounders everyday.
Again, I completely agree that the Braves shouldn’t had the job over to Salty and cast Thorman aside. I’m just saying the Braves shouldn’t avoid using Salty at first unless they send him to the minors.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
Since Salty is a catcher, shouldn’t Salty already pretty much know where every single ballplayer is supposed to be at all times on the field?
That is part of a catcher’s responsibilities. That is why so many of them become managers I think - because part of their job is knowing what the pitcher is supposed to do and what every other member of the defense is supposed to be doing on every play.
I hate Tim McCarver but the man does know how to break down what should have happened on a play pretty darn well - which he often attributes to being a former catcher who was responsible for knowing where everyone on the field was supposed to be.
That is why I think it would be easier for Salty to make a transition to another position like first. Everyone keeps saying that he would become all befuddled and suffer paralysis by analysis by overthinking what he was supposed to do over at first on every play.
If he is a catcher worth anything, then he should already know where the first baseman is supposed to be on every play along with where everyone else on the field is supposed to be.
In addition, having played catcher, because he is the only one facing all of the other defenders, he has had the best view of how plays break down and hopefully, if he has any brains in his head, has been able to internalize that.
This does not mean that he will not suffer some awkwardly indecisive moments trying to play first base because he definitely will just out of pure inexperience playing the position.
It’s one thing to know where a first baseman is supposed to be when you are catcher and quite another to be able to apply that under pressure when you are the one playing first base.
But since he has probably watched plays break down right before his eyes a million times and because, if he is a catcher worth anything, he should have internalized that in his mind and already know what a first baseman’s responsibilities are on every play, the transition to first should not be all that difficult for Salty.
Once he gets over the awkwardly inexperienced indecisive moments, it will all just depend upon his athletic ability at that point. I agree with Shaun that he should be athletic enough to do that.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
Again…agreed. Of course you want good players regardless of if they come from high school or college. My point is the time it takes the players to develop. With the Braves using 18 rookies in 05 and having so many young players on their club, they don’t have the same luxury of drafting all 17 year olds and developing them for 5-7 years. That’s all I am saying.
You said:
“The Braves feel confident in their player development program and prefer to draft more high school players than other organizations because they like to train players their way from an early age.”
Again, I agree. I just don’t think they can afford to have the same development cycle due to so many of their minor leaguers being called up, a lack of depth in their rotation, and the lack of the ability to be a big player in the free agent market.
It is the same as in any business. If you have an immediate need, you don’t hire someone that will be groomed for 3-5 years to fill that need. You try and find someone that can fill it now. If you don’t have an immediate need, you may hire someone that you feel has enormous potential and groom that person for the position.
In essence, I think the amount of time they can take for player development has changed over the last few years. As a result, I was wondering if we would see more selections like Joey Devine (which before you say it - yes I understand it didn’t necessarily work out as they had envisioned) where they feel the pitcher will have more of an immediate impact.
Regards,
Jason
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
Renegator,
But how many 24 and 25 year olds that hit around .226 in 283 major league at bats (and hit at every level in the minors) actually ended up with productive careers? I honestly have no clue but I would guess there are a good bit.
By JasonInMaine
June 5, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Braveheart & Shaun,
I have to admit; I completely agree that it is easier for a catcher to learn to play 1B than an outfielder. I hope he already knows how and he is in there tomorrow! But, I do think there is some credence to what Ron Roberts and others have been saying. The Bravos want to be sure he can handle the position, and to be honest; they must not feel as though he can. With Thorman’s recent struggles, I just feel that if the Braves thought he could do it; he would have already started a game against a lefty to give Thor a rest.
Regards,
Jason
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
Can we win both of these games today?
I would be really happy if we did…..
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
Yes, I agree. I said before the ideal situation, if the Braves still need a firstbaseman, would be to work Salty out there during the offseason. But I’m just arguing with these people who think Salty would be completely lost if the Braves put him at first for some games right now.
I do think Salty is a catcher and if the right trade is out there, the Braves would trade him rather than move him to first. I think that more than likely the right trade will be out there, most likely in the offseason, as you said. He’s just too hot a commodity—a switch-hitting catcher with power potential.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this
ChopZone-I haven’t had a drink in over 20 years. Come up with another putdown, You Whiny Little Worm.
By RW
June 5, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
Folks, look at the Salty or McCann at catcher situation like this: yes, Salty might MIGHT be better defensively. Remember, Smoltz made McCann his personal catcher after one or two starts in McCann’s rookie year, and that was with a solid defensive catcher as the full time starter, (Estrada). Moving Salty to first would waste a great arm, yes, but look at the benefits. Catchers have to take many more days off per year. McCann is a high average, 20-25 homer, 70-90 RBI guy. Salty’s potential is .280-.300/ 30-40HR/ 100+ RBI. Catchers historically don’t put up the stats of other position players, due to wear and tear, fatigue and more days off. Being able to hit for a high average doesn’t get affected by taking days off. Power hitters’ numbers and rythm can be thrown off much easier by more days off. Take Piazza. Don’t you think had he played every day at a less demanding position he could have hit closer to 40+ HR’s every year? Maybe even a higher average due to not as much wear on the body. Also, catchers break down at earlier ages. Again, a high average hitter will still be able to hit for a high average regardless. Watching a power hitter break down is painful. Piazza was the biggest power hitting catcher of the last 15 years, yet only hit 30+ HR in 8 out of 15 years, and exactly 40 twice. Put that bat in its prime at another position and he’s a 40 HR guy every year, plus being a three/four hitter in the lineup every day. If Salty’s got the power everyone seems to absolutely be sure he’s going to hit for, where would he hit? Three, four? Where’s McCann always going to hit? Five, maybe two? Try taking your cleanup hitter out of the lineup every four or five games, and see the drastic change in the lineup on those days. Not to mention, the possible dropoff later in the year for fatigue, happening to your cleanup hitter. McCann’s more than okay at catcher, and moving Salty would be sacrificing his arm and the possible baserunners he would gun down, for the extra 5-10 HR’s per year and 25-35 RBI’s by being in the lineup much more regularly.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Shaun-He looked absolutely terrible at first. Taking grounders is not enough to become a proficient first baseman, no matter HOW easy you seem to think it is. Yes, he should go down and learn to play the position. What in the world is wrong with that? He’s not being utilized as a pinch hitter, due to his status as back up catcher, so why not send him back down for a while? It’s obvious that BC is NOT going to put him there to learn by trial and error. Sending him down for instruction would be a good thing. No one said it has to be for two more years. You say Thorman should be given more of a chance, so I fail to see the problem in sending Salty down.
By AthensBrave
June 5, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Lew It cracks me up how you think your opinion is the most sensible, and we other bloggers must get your approval until ours’ is legit. Its been awhile now since we dropped Wilson, and since then Thorman has been very disappointing. He’s batted under .200, and hasn’t been good on defense. Shaun can pull up the exact stats for me. That being said, I don’t think Thorman will continue to struggle this poorly…but I don’t think he will ever be that good. He might hover around .250/.260 and knock some homers in every once in a while. You can tell by his approach at the plate Salty’s approach on the other hand has looked great. Moving to 1st base is not that drastic of a change. Players do it all the time. I just want the Braves to put the players on the field that give them the best chance to win, and for the past month and half, Thorman has not been that player
By Lew
June 5, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
Shaun-Salty can’t be the backup catcher, a pinch hitter AND a first baseman. It just won’t work. If he starts at first, then who backs up a catcher? If he pinch hits, who backs up at catcher? If he is to remain a first baseman (and yes, Shaun, maybe you should actually watch the game-he was bad), then someone needs to go down to the minors so Brayan Pena can be the backup catcher. Salty may be everyman to you, but he can’t play all the roles people are setting out for him. A decison needs to be made. No matter what that decision may be, some fans are not going to be happy. Be that as it may-he needs much more work at first than just taking grounders during BP.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
I would guess that Salty will catch one game today and McCann the other so I doubt we will see Salty at first today.
Question: Which game will Bobby use the B squad (Orr, Woodward) as starters in today - the day game or the night game?
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
MaineJason, I am actually kind of undecided about whether Salty should learn to play first in the majors or the minors. I still have not decided that. Ideally, you would want him to do it in the minors where it will be less detrimental to the MLB team when he inevitably screws up (because he will from time to time). I think he could learn it in the majors but they may just lose a game or two here and there while he is learning because of it.
Errors won’t be the way to measure it. Alot of times, you measure a first baseman by how much he saves the other fielders from making throwing errors. You can’t really know that by looking at stats - it just something you have to learn for yourself by watching. And sometimes, it is not just errors that he saves but hits.
For example, with edgar, his range and arm ain’t what it used to be. I can remember a few plays this year that Thorman did not save a hit from occurring on a poor throw from Edgar because Thorman’s foot work was poor and because his athleticism was not good enough for him to be agile and graceful enough to stretch for the poor throw while keeping his foot on the bag. Now, Edgar did not get charged with an error and neither did Thorman because it was a doubly difficult play - tough play for Edgar to make and tough throw for Thorman to catch and keep his foot on the bag. So, it went down as a hit. But Edgar did his job taking a difficult play and getting the ball in the area of first base where a good fielding first baseman should have been able to convert it into an out. But it did not happen.
So, that is gonna happen with Salty at first as well if he plays there this year in the majors. Will the 5 to 10 costly times that happens this season be more damaging than the benefit given to the lineup by having his stick out there everyday? I’m not sure.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
JasonInMaine,
Not trying to argue with you. This is a fun discussion.
But I think if you are constantly drafting high school players and your player development continues to do a great job, you will always have players available and you won’t need to worry about immediacy in the draft (at least in theory).
And it looks like philosophy is more of a factor than immediacy when drafting high school vs. college players. Here’s an interesting piece from espn.com’s Keith Law (I guess the Mel Kiper of baseball):
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/draft2007/columns/story?id=2885781
Actually it may be better if your tightening your budget to go with college players, as top high school talent wants more money to forgo college.
But also, while it seems more risky to go after high school talent, that’s where most of the superstars come from.
Law concludes that evaluating talent is much more important than having a philosophy of drafting more high school or more college players.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
I agree with Lew here. IF Salty is the long term answer at first, send him down to play 1B everyday, and bring Pena up to spell McCann. If by the All-Star break, Thorman is still struggling and Salty has looked decent at 1B, make the switch. However, you have to leave Pena up, too. There has to be a backup catcher, NOT 1B and backup catcher. If that happens, then is Thorman the odd man out? Who do you get rid of to make room? Thorman could still backup in LF, right?
By Lew
June 5, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
Athens Brave-You are welcome to any opinion you care to hold. However, if you sit here and propose nonsensical trades or make bombastic statements with no rooting in reality, then I will say something. That’s MY right, just as it is yours. Yes, Thorman has not lived up to expectations. True, no doubt. As you say, he isn’t all that bad and will likely get better with experience and playing time. I don’t see him as a long term option, either. But why send Salty out there just to send him? The other day his defense was laughable (Dude, he even laughed at it himself). He made two plays-almost botched the first by kicking the ball and then, after making a good stop, threw another ball into the outfield. He needs practice and sending him out there to get it in a game (unless it’s a blowout), is not a good move-either for the team or for his ego and psyche. Shaun can quote all the stats he wants to (though I wonder where he gets the stats to prove which position is easier), but playing a new position is not as easy as he makes it out. Salty is still a kid. Give him a chance to develop and if he is to learn a new position, then let him do it where making mistakes won’t factor into or W’s and L’s-in the minors. If he’s good and it only takes a couple of weeks or a month, wonderful. I don’t see what your problem with me is. Where is my analysis flawed. Please show me.
By Fred from CT
June 5, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
chris woodward .229 pete orr .220 scott thorman .219
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I’m not arguing for Salty to be an “everyman.” I’m simply and only arguing that I think Salty could play first adequately. I’m not arguing that he should or that it’s ideal or anything like that.
And he played all of two innings at first. If you can judge a player by two innings, you are a baseball God and someone should be paying you more than double what Alex Rodriguez makes.
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Well, we have interleague play starting next week and runs through the 24th, so I’d guess we’ll maintain the current situation through then, with Salty hopefully DH-ing some, and catching a good bit to let McCann DH and get rested.
Interesting, whoever pointed out that Pena is playing different positions at Richmond. Some 3B, some LF. I honestly don’t understand the rationale there, but no harm, I guess.
Aren’t we carrying 13 pitchers right now? I’d guess that Carlyle (or some pitcher) gets sent down after today, and Pena comes up…
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
Hitting McCann cleanup makes sense if he is going to hit like he did last year. BUT like RW is saying, he is going to break down and he is going to have to be benched once every five games because he is a catcher and that will have an impact on your offense.
It’s kind of like the Yankees with Posada who has been a very good hitter for about ten years now. The Yankees never hit him much higher than sixth or seventh in the lineup. They have alot of good hitters and that is partially the reason why. But he has often been one of the better hitters in their lineup although no one appreciates Posada. He should have been hitting higher in the lineup but I think Torre was reluctant to do so because Posada was a catcher. I am not sure if I personally agree with Torre’s decisions on that. Posada has had some pretty good OBP and SLG years where he has drawn alot of walks and he probably would have scored alot more runs and driven in alot more runs if he was higher up in the lineup. But maybe Torre just did not like the lineup being dramatically altered every five games or so when Posada had to sit. And maybe he drew alot of walks because he was so much more dangerous in the sixth or seventh hole than the next hitter was going to be, so maybe he would have had less walks if he was higher up in the lineup. But then maybe if he was higher up he would have gotten better pitches to hit and been more dangerous from a SLG and RBI standpoint. I don’t know. I don’t really understand this year why Posada is not hitting fourth, with Jeter second and AROD third just based upon how solid Posada has been this year - the most consistent hitter on the team. Maybe, that’s just another reason why Torre should be fired already. Hitting Abreu third and Posada fifth is really kind of stupid this far into the season when you see that Abreu has hit some mysterious wall in his career.
So, I can see some logic in not hitting McCann cleanup. But, then again, not really either. But if he keeps hitting like he has been for the last month or so, whether that is because of an injured hand or injured ego, he should not be hitting cleanup.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
June 5, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
If it hasn’t been asked already, what’s the t.v./TBS scedule for the double-header? First game? Second Game? Both? Yes, Dear? Sex and the City?
ChopZone-I haven’t had a drink in over 20 years.
Lew, A sincere congratulations. I’ll drink to that.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
I say we give Salty a game at Catcher and first base today.
Don’t know if that makes much sense??
But lets just get his bat into the lineup, Thorman is really struggling.
By the way, McCann let another wild pitch go last night.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
Shaun-I have no doubt whatsoever that Salty can be a more than adequate first baseman-no doubts at all. My whole point is that he does need more work there before being thrown to the proverbial lions. I would rather see him learn the position in the minors. If it had been a close game the other day, Salty’s defense could have been a major factor in losing a game. Where is this a good thing? Playing once a week, in BP and during blowouts is not going to forward the cause appreciably. Just like McBride was sent down for control problems and started game to give him more work, Salty needs to go down and work at his position (not to mention hitting four or five times a day). He’s not going to improve until he gets lots of work. The only place this will occur is in the minors. That’s all. It’s not a condemnation of him or his abilities. He needs a learning experience with someone like a Glen Hubbard figure.
By AthensBrave
June 5, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Lew, I just think that you are putting too much emphasis on first base transition. Its the easiest position on the field. Why do you think so many offensive studs w/ iffy defensive skills are played there? I heard an interview w/ Salty on 680 the fan the day after he played first. He said that he was a little nervous.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
Yea, by the way, that trade for Mike Gonzalez is looking worse and worse. Laroche is playing better. I think he has an OPS that is better than Thorman’s right now. I don’t care that Laroche costs more money. We traded him for a guy who has a bum elbow and a shortstop prospect who has the slugging abilities of a bat boy. Lillibridge makes too many errors as well.
By Jeff R
June 5, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
Returning to Thorman…it’s good that he hit in the minors (it’s better than not hitting in the bushes), but baseball is littered with players who knocked the cover of the ball in the minors only to wash out at the major league level. I don’t think Thorman is a washout; I just think he’s never going to produce Chipper-like numbers. I think he’s a middling talent who’s probably better paltooning or backing up.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
Yea I was right,
Thorman: .656 OPS
Laroche: .704 OPS
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
If Salty is gonna play any other position, then Pena definitely needs to be called up. With Escobar, Harris, Salty, Pena, Thorman, and Diaz on the team, is there any need for Orr and Woodward? There is just so much more utility and interchangeability and dangerousness to this roster from a hitting and fielding standpoint with Escobar, Harris, Thorman, Diaz, Salty, and Pena as opposed to Thorman, Diaz, Orr, Woodward, Pena and Harris.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly
SportSouth for the first game…dont know for the second. Probably same
By Lew
June 5, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
AthensBrave-Maybe it is the easiest position on the field. That may or may not be true. But that’s not the point. Nervous or not, he looked bad out there the other day and I’m sure he took a lot of grief from his teammates. He’s got tons of potential and a huge upside. I, for one, would not like to see him traded and I realize a position change will be necessary to keep him. All I’m saying is that he is not receiving and will not receive the requisite playing time until he gets better at his 1B defense. I still feel that the best place for him to get some intensive instruction is in the minors with a good coach. It’s not a condemnation or a putdown of Salty or his massive ability. What happens if he plays and makes several bad errors? I can hear the boos (and the blog derision) already. Let him learn in peace in a learning environment. If it only takes a couple weeks or so (he did, apparently, play first in HS), like I say, Wonderful. But let him make his first mistakes out of the public eye. It certainly can’t hurt him, whereas inept play could hurt the Braves..
By AZBravoFan
June 5, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Is anyone else worried that this team looks a lot like last year’s second half. Improved but not really good enough to get over the hump. Win-lose-win-lose 2-win 2-lose-win-lose 3-win 2…a picture of frustrating mediocrity, but at least not 6-20. I know it’s early but shoot, I feel like I’ve been telling myself that since May of last year. And if we don’t get consistent dominance from Huddy and Smoltz, we’ll be lucky to finish 4th. If you’re the supposed ace, you cannot be losing to the likes of Gabbard and Obermueller.
By Jersey Gil
June 5, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Hillbilly Did you have internet access?…go to TBS.com and see all the braves Schedule for the Month on TBS. No the 2:35 and tonight games will be in sportsouth.Both games will be “INDEMAND” package.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
Lew, of the three chances Salty had, it looked to me like ther first one he kicked around and looked goofy on, but made the play. The second opportunity, he made a stop that Thorman or Woodward aren’t physically capable of making, then trusted his arm strength too much and tried to throw when he shouldn’t have. Did Francouer try to show his arm off to the detriment of the team when he first came up? Has he been playing RF a hell of a lot longer that Salty has first? You really think Salty didn’t learn from that and would make that same throw again? No, of course he isn’t ready to take over 1st right this second, but those two innings, while displaying mistakes in 2 out of 3 tries showed me, anyway, that he’s got plenty of potential there and a couple of weeks in the minors there every day ought to have him close enough to warrant putting him there should we need to. And what’s with you suddenly allowing others to have their own opinions, like Athens Brave? When did this start? And Tony Iommi would be the gratest 1st baseman of all, simply because he’s Tony Iommi (and he’s a lefty). :-) In fact, if Salty and Iommi were our only two players we’d still beat the Mets heads up.
Thunder and lightning; may be shut down the compooter time.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this
Efrim-You have to take a longer term view of the Gonzo trade. First of all, we have him under contract for two more years after this, so he should be able to pitch a good bit for us-he won’t be a near total loss (look at his stats before the DL, too). Also, don’t forget the acquisition of Lillibridge, who may end up being our starting SS, 2B or CF in the next couple of years. The Dude can motor, too. In the short term we took a little hit. Long term, life looks good.
By flange1
June 5, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Hi All,
TENNESSEE PAUL, I agree with you about the bench. Bring up Penya and drop Woodward.
On SALTY at first,
Lew and Ron Roberts are correct, Salty needs to play some at the position before we throw him in at the Major League level. I played first from age 7 thru college, and I will agree that it is not the most difficult place to play,
BUT SHAUN THERE IS MORE TO PLAYING FIRST BASE THEN FIELDING GROUNDERS.
The problems he will have is which base to throw to, how to be a cut off man, where he should be when a play is ongoing.
It takes a bit of time overthere to get comfortable with what to do.
If we want Salty on the team great, but he nneds work at first before we throw him out there. If you guys give Thorman so much flack for having no range you will KILL Salty if he makes a couple of errors.
I also think we don’t need to Joey Devine Salty. We brought Joey Devine up the year he was drafted and had him in the majors after his college year was up. He got shelled, and I am not sure he will ever recover from that mentally. Don’t want Salty to fail at first and have that cause him trouble throughout his career.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
AZBravoFan
Agreed.
Can’t see this team finishing 90-72.
I just can’t see it. Too inconsistent.
I can’t believe I am even saying that at this point.
I figure 90 wins the wild card, and I just don’t think they are a 90 win team. Not with Chipper in question, rotation struggles and an inconsistent offense. The team hasn’t had a big comeback in weeks. Was hoping for it last night, but it just didn’t happen…..
By ncscoots
June 5, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
…whether that is because of an injured hand or injured ego…
I doubt it’s either one at this point. He played through the injury ‘cause the team needed him to do so (plus it was either that, or suffer the ignominy of the blog calling him a wuss, and we’ve seen how some posters make that call on a player, have we not?). He may have picked up some bad habits compensating, but his swing is solid, and I’m sure he’ll clean that up. As far as “injured ego” corrupting his swing, I’m afraid I find that position untenable.
His numbers may not climb to the all-important blog standards (MVP or you’re dirt, LOL), but, Holy Cornelia, he’s not exactly an offensive black hole, is he?
By Lew
June 5, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
Grinch-Iommi never could hit the slider, though. I don’t doubt Salty learned something the other day and may be our 1B of the future. However, 20 AB in a month or so isn’t going to help him in any facet of the game. Send him down until they’re confidant he can handle first on an everyday basis, then bring him up and we’ll never look back-at least until he has a five K game or makes 3 errors. What will the hue and cry be then? Go listen to that Iommi/Hughes CD, Dude. That’s what I intend to do until game time.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
flange1,
If you can play catcher in the majors, you are young and nimble, then you can play firstbase adequately.
Ideally you would have him work out there during the offseason but I’m not talking about playing him at first every game.
If you are a major league catcher who played first (and third) in high school, chances are you have some idea of where to play, where to throw the ball, how to be a cut-off man, etc.
This is not the equivalent of sending Ron Gant to the minors to switch from infield to outfield. This is a good major league catcher playing first if and when it’s necessary. I’m pretty sure Salty can do it.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
flange1,
I also doubt Salty’s career would be ruined if the Braves played him at first a few more times and he for some reason couldn’t handle it.
By Lew
June 5, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this
Efrim-Not sure why you think we aren’t capable of winning 90 games. Right now we’re 32-25, leaving 105 games. Most complain we’re playing .500. If we play .500 the rest of the way, we’re on target for 85 wins. Going 5 games over .500 is certainly not out of the range of possibility, especially with Chipper back and if Andruw comes anywhere near normal production. You are extremely negative. What leads you to believe we’re doomed? Been listening to Drooling Mets’ Fan and Chop Zone the Mosquito Boy?
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
I agree, I think we’re better than what we’re playing right now. We just need to do some housecleaning, like, umm…Orr and Woodward? It seems like every time they start we lose. I wonder if Shaun has a stat for that….
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
Lew, unfortunately I didn’t get to make the trip today so I’m where the alblum isn’t. I’ll be there tommorrow, though.
Scoots, I hate to tell you but the DL most certainly is an offensive black hole; one can hardly be expected to hit well from there, can one? The DL is even in a slightly worse slump than Woodward, though admittedly it kills fewer rallies.
Jimmy Smith, I suggest Rocotta and fig pie, with brioche crust. Recipe to follow shortly.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Lew
Just can’t see them being 18 games over .500 at the end of the season.
By Lee
June 5, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
As long as the Braves remain in striking distance of the 1st place Mets and in the thick of the Wild Card hunt there is no need to panic. Mid-season is around the corner and the all-star game is virtually upon us. There will be a few more changes made to this team before all is said and done. I will not speculate on who goes or stays at this point. The Braves really have decisions to make on future position players at this time. I guess this is a good decision to have to make though.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
Braves are 4-2 in Pete Orr starts. 17-11 in Pete Orr appearances.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=orrpe01&t=b&year=2007
Braves are 4-8 in Woodward starts. 16-22 in Woodward appearances.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=woodwch01&t=b&year=2007
Cut ‘em both. They stink.
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this
Efrim, if the Braves go 27-18 in the rest of the starts of Smoltz and Hudson and 30-30 in the starts of the rest of the staff, the Braves will win 89 games.
By ncscoots
June 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
Grinch…huh? You lost me there with the DL ref. Are we both speaking of McCann?
By MBATL
June 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
Everyone wants to dump Orr and Woodward - and it’s understandable, of course.
One question: who do we replace them with? We’ve brought up our best hitting prospects (Salty and Escobar).
And with Chipper out (sounds like for a while) we do need a backup SS/3B (Orr) and a backup 1B (Woodward, unless Salty really is a 1B).
It would be nice to have backups who hit for big numbers, but I don’t see us trading for middle infield backups - so again, who do we replace them with?
By bclontz
June 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
Wonder if Chipper is considering retirement? Seems to be struggling with health issues alot! Might be good to just keep Escobar at third for awhile and let Chipper move over to first…Willie, why were you so offended by being put out at first…replay shows that it was a clean play! Could you be getting that attitude that nobody should touch you? You’re too good a player to start with the attitude…and I have been a fan…please don’t prove me wrong…I’m betting you’re better than that…Maple bats ? Might as well be balsam wood the way they shatter…guess someones gonna have to lose an eye or suffer a serious injury before we take a look at this problem!!!!Almost time for the first of the double header, which team will show up today?
By flange1
June 5, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
I hear what you are saying, Salty can physically handle the catching, and throwing of the ball, but he needs to play the position full time for awhile, at least a couple of weeks, before you throw him to the wolves in the majors.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
The Rangers are 20-37 in Mark Tiexiera’s starts. Maybe they should cut him.
By Efrim
June 5, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
Lineup
LF Harris 3B Escobar SS Renteria CF A. Jones RF Francouer 1B Thorman C Saltalamacchia 2B Orr P Carlyle
By Steve from OH
June 5, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
mlb.com projects the Braves as either taking Hayward the “toolsy outfielder” or Smoker, the hard throwing lefty as thier first pick.
By Lee
June 5, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
When Chipper comes back, either Woodward or Orr can be history then. I personally don’t care which one, I just know Escobar needs to remain with the team.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
June 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
Jersey Gil,
I have limited internet access here at work. Some sites, including TBS.com, are blocked. That’s why a lot of my questions here, percieve me to be too lazy to look up stuff on my own. Thanks for the info.
Journalist Jimmy and Grinch,
I’m not much on sweets but I will down a crawfish pie like it’s going out of style. Does that classify?
By ssiscribe
June 5, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
Nothing beats making sure you take that last personal day before leaving your current gig for the new one.
So, I’ll be in the yard tomorrow afternoon, somewhere in the outfield, most likely. Hopefully, we’ll be coming off a sweep of the Fish today, as I continue to celebrate frying the big fish. Need to bounce back from last night and Sunday, for sure.
Time to get back to it, deadline in progress. Gameday Audio on the ol’ headphones.
Peace. The Scribe abides.
—30—
By ncscoots
June 5, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
This is not the equivalent of sending Ron Gant to the minors to switch from infield to outfield
OK, now I’m confused. According to the defensive spectrum, LF is much, MUCH easier to play than middle infield (which is where Gant played before switching), yet he returned to the minors to learn the position. How does that buttress your posit that Saltalamacchia DOESN’T need minor league learning time?
I don’t really care which way lies any particular opinion, but I do require that the logic underpinning that position be consistent. That point re Gant, ain’t.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
ncscoots,
The defensive spectrum idea isn’t a nice and neat concept about player movement. Reality is much more complicated than anything that attempts to simplify it for expressive purposes.
Just because a position requires more skill than another doesn’t mean players that play the position that requires more skill can switch to less demanding position with ease. Obviously it depends on the position. A SS is going to have a easier time playing 2B than CF.
Catcher is one of, if not the most demanding defensive position on the diamond in many ways. If you have the coordination, the footwork, etc. to play catcher, you can probably handle first adequately.
By Thrillhouse44
June 5, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
If I’m not mistaken Gant was sent to the minors to learn CF, not LF.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
Scoots; my bad, thought you were referring to Chipper. Speaking of Chipper: considering retirement? Absurd. The guys hitting in the .330’s with power. The injuries he’s been sustaining have been in the line of duty, not some chronic back or knee problem. Chip’s got plenty of good ball left in him.
Hillbilly, that pie sounds mighty crunchy; do you shell them first?
Scribe: Outfield in your yard? Must be nice. Hope you’ve got a freezer big enough for your big fish (I have not been invited to the fry yet, so I assume it hasn’t happened); otherwise you might have the neighbor’s yards to yourself as well.
Go Braves!
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Salty just threw out another runner trying to steal second. Too bad we will be wasting that great arm when we move him or trade him.
McCann just can’t throw runner out…
By Braveheart
June 5, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
The Rangers are 20-37 in Mark Tiexiera’s starts. Maybe they should cut him.
Shaun, I’m not saying that at all. Someone asked the question what the record was when Orr and Woodward started and I provided the answer to the fella who asked.
Then I said we should get rid of Orr and Woodward not because of the team’s record when they play but because they are terrible. They just are. Should have made my point clearer in that I was not saying cut ‘em because of the team’s record when they played. But the reality is any which way you look at it, it is awfully hard to find a reason not to cut both of them and use Harris, Escobar, Salty, and Pena as backups.
As for Tex, maybe that is why Texas is looking to get rid of him - not because he is responsible for the record at all but because, as my dad used to always say, which always annoyed me, we can finish 20-37 with you, we can finish 20-37 without you, especially since he is about to become very expensive.
Chipper - 214-163 when he starts the last 4 years. 83-83 when he does not start. 225-173 when he plays. 72-73 when he does not play. One player can have that kind of impact on a team and lineup.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Salty just threw out another runner trying to steal second. Too bad we will be wasting that great arm when we move him or trade him.
McCann just can’t throw runners out…
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
MBATL: Replace Woodward with Pena. Pena would serve as the back up Catcher. Salty the back up 1B/C. Harris, Yunel, Orr as the back up infielders. Diaz/Harris as the extra outfielders. I say drop woodward because he offers no real tool. He is a tool, but he has no tools. Orr can run, so while he is not a great base stealer, he can at least score from first.
Salty is frickin good though.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
Renegator,
I guarantee if the Braves trade him, they’ll get good players. He won’t go to waste.
By 1957 Braves Fan
June 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
It is hard to be positive with the Braves. They seem to have a very difficult time scoring with runners in scoring position and no outs. If they load the bases with no outs they are fortunate to score one run. Usually a strike out and double play gets the other team off the hook.
By Shaun
June 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul,
I agree. Now that Escobar is up, why keep Woodward around? His only skill is his ability to play all around the infield. At least Orr can pinch-run and score from first on a gapper.
By Renegator
June 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
I just mean that rocket arm will go to waste. Meaning - we won’t get to take advantage of it.
By Lee
June 5, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
10Paul - Agree with disposing of Woodward and keeping the others. If this guy made it to the major league level, it does provide hope for any minor league player having a chance for at least a utility spot.
By TennesseePaul
June 5, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
How long till Carlyle gives up 5 runs? Another inning or so? I don’t trust this guy. I’m glad he had a nice spring and worked well in 3A. But he comes across as a 4A player at best.
By The Grinch
June 5, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
Shaun, while I’m not qualified to comment on the Defensive Spectrum concept, I agree with your 2:34.
Too bad Salty’s such an awesome catcher; this has got to be giving JS ulcers.
10Paul, I agree; a tool without tools does not belong in the Braves’ box. Umm, toolbox. You know what I mean.
By Bailey
June 5, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
THORMAN WITH A HIT!!
By Caleb
June 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
New Blog up by CR
By jb
June 5, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this
I can’t see how people think Salty can play 1B just like that. On Sunday, he sure looked shaky. The first out he recorded unassisted was way too exciting, and he showed the skill a 1B needs to have when he tried to start the 3-6-3 double play. If 1B was such an easy position to play, why don’t NL teams target great offensive DH’s in free agency or trades. Answer is simple, getting outs in the NL is too important to allow for an error by an inexperienced 1B. A good 1B also saves many other throwing errors. Not all players can throw the consistant chest high middle of the chest throw to first like Vinny Castillo did. The other part to the 1B senario is Salty’s arm. What a waste if it sits at 1B. If the Braves keep him, they should look to have McCann learn 1B in the offseason. Saltalamaccia is 6 for 10 in throwing out runners and should be 7 for 10 if Prado would have fielded a throw cleanly. McCann is barely at 25% and doesn’t look to get much better at throwing out runners. His footwork is too slow.
By Cullen
June 9, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
Looks like another horrible June for the Braves. They went 6-20 last year and so far this June they aren’t looking much better.
Smoltz is injured Hudson is failing again James is up and down Davies is up and down Cormier was terrible and back on the DL And they have no one else who offered a promising start.
Andruw Jones will have his typical season of sub-par pitching and the media-highlight outfield plays that give him the ability to be over-priced.
Chipper Jones was playing well and we all knew that couldn’t last as he’d get some nagging injury that will last the rest of the season
McCann has been playing injured and thus his performance has suffered.
Thorman can’t seem to find the ball with the bat
And the rest of the line-up is in a team-wide slump that will last the rest of the season off and on. Other than Edgar Renteria, you can’t really count on any person in the lineup when he’s up at the plate…
Could the Braves possibly find a way to dump Mike Hampton? He’s not going to come back from two consecutive surgeries and missing two full seasons…that’s a good chunk of the payroll Then there’s Andruw Jones…now, he’s been a part of the Braves but he’s got Satan as his agent and an inflated sense of self-worth…Andruw peaked long ago and he’s not worth what his agent wants. Maybe it’s time to part ways with Andruw Jones.
Something else…this notion that a left-handed batter has any more luck hitting against a right-handed pitcher…it’s nonsense. Put guys in the lineup who can hit and field the ball regardless of HOW they bat. And forget about pitch count…if the starter is looking good but has a high pitch count…KEEP HIM IN THE GAME UNTIL HE SAYS OTHERWISE!!! Ditto for the bullpen…if a relif pitcher is looking good, don’t pull him simply because his “role” is over…let him keep pitching!
Oh well…another season with a promising start and a sub-par middle and end…but hey, maybe the Braves can atleast finish with .500 record…assuming the entire team doesn’t go down with injuries by then.