Braves

By Carroll Rogers

May 27, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

I beg your pardon, I meant Chipper was missing his fourth consecutive start….

By Tomahawkin' Again

May 27, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Uh oh, lead off triple. They’re throwing away the good work of the Mets series. Oh well, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Just the memories of last year’s 6-21 June is pretty fresh in all of Braves nation’s minds. C’mon Kyle, hunker down!

By ElbravoX

May 27, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Up in smoke!

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 27, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Skip Carey just said that with all that devastating smoke it’s like broadcasting from a saloon—guess he would know!…

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

What a fugly start

By chrisklob

May 27, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Will the REAL Kyle Davies please stand up?

By N8

May 27, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

This just in…..

Kyle Davies, has SUCKED in the past, he STILL sucks, and he will CONTINUE to suck in the future.

If I was Smoltz, I’d ask to be traded.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 27, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

4 to 0—looks like the Braves ran their batting practice pitcher out there today…

By Tomahawkin' Again

May 27, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Another game today like the last 2 and I’m going to be smoking something here pretty soon…

By N8

May 27, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Gotta love it when your pitcher gives up 4 runs in a LONG 1st inning, and you first three guys in the lineup pretty much come up hacking from the get go.

Nice job guys.

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

How about now? Should we be worried yet???

Folks, this rotation SUX. Period.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

4-0 already? You’re as good as the Mets….HA, what nonsense.

By Mets fans

May 27, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

NO CHOP ZONE,YOU IGNORANT PEA HEAD,CAN’T YOU REALIZE ATLANTA SUCKS AND NO WAY THEY WILL EVER WIN THE EAST AGAIN.IT TAKES MORE THAN SMOLTZ AND YOU IDIOTS AIN’T GOT NO PITCHING AFTER SMOLTS.

By The Truth Hurts

May 27, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

I’m the first person to get on people about reacting too immediately to the results of one game. The baseball season is interminable. However, this could be a little more than a “funk.” Hard to get an 8 out of 10 win streak going with Davies, James, and….

McCann said what I expected…his finger is fine, he’s just not hitting well. It happens. Not a big deal.

Davies has a flat fastball. Always has.

Salty…the future.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

I can’t wait to read what Lew, Braveheart, Joebrave, Scalp’em braves, ect ect have to say now. The spins that they’ll put on the season so far. I’ve already read the one about the braves winning the season series against the Mets. If that’s all you got save it….It’s old.

By Mike R

May 27, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

I used to be a Chipper fan but no more. He is becoming more and more like Bob Horner. Another player that doesn’t care enough about his team to play through a minor injury, (bruised hand???). The Braves have lost 9 out of 13 since he decided to start taking time off. This could have been a special season and he is assuring that it will be another 3rd place finish. I have followed the Braves religiously since 1969 and, aside from Horner, have never seen a Brave with less heart. We can’t trade him since no one will take his salary and unwillingness to play with injuries so we are stuck. I would bet anything that Dale Murphy, Henry Aaron, or Cal Ripken would play with a buised hand.

By Jared

May 27, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

If we played the Mets 162 times we would be unstoppable. As for this Philly clown, face it the Phillies suck. They will be in their usual 4th place spot by the end of the year.

By KC

May 27, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

We’re in trouble. We really needed Davies to turn the corner. We needed it badly.

Between Cormier, Davies, Villarreal, and the kids on the farm… we’ll find a solution for a 5th starter, but we need a true replacement for Mike Hampton if we’re going to have a serious shot at this division.

I think if we could get Villarreal and Cormier in the rotation, that would stop the bleeding and keep us from falling completely out of the NL East race. I think that would also put us in great shape to win the Wild Card.

But if we want to really make a run at recapturing the division, and more importantly… make a real run at another ring… we’ve GOT to get one more top-of-rotation caliber starter.

Harden would probably do. If we don’t get him (or someone like him), the division is lost. The Mets were too damn lucky, with 3 starters (other than Glavine) having career-best seasons so far. While the Braves lost Hampton, Gonzo, and Cormier still hasn’t made his first start. All the dice rolled their way. Now we’re going to have to make a significant move to have a shot at this thing.

By Mets fans

May 27, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

to John Smoltz,Mr Smoltz why don’t you void your contract and come on over to us Mets.We are the greatest team in the East division.You can be reunited with your good friend Tom Glavine and you both can go the Hall wearing a Mets uniform and a Mets hat instead of a Stinking losersville Braves uniform and cap.what a disgrace for such a good pitcher.The METS FANS ARE THE BEST IN BASEBALL AND WE WILL SHOW YOU RESPECT.

By Calvin

May 27, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

How the hell did Andruw catch that?

By Will

May 27, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Looks like the June Swoon is upon’em…

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 27, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Looks that no good for nothin’, worthless bum Andruw Jones just saved the Braves another run—now the rest of this blog will consist of all those two-faced hypocrites, that have been calling for his departure, moaning about how the Braves need to find a way to keep him after this year…

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Hang in there Braves fans. Chipper is out, McCann is banged up, Andruw is in a slump and Huddy hasn’t had his A stuff in the last two games. A bit of a rough stretch no doubt, and it doesn’t look good on paper with the much-improved Brewers on the slate next. But we’ve hit pretty well in that park. Maybe we just need to get out of the NL East for a spell.

By A-ville Ranger

May 27, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

I think I’ll keep a journal on Davies for the rest of this season.I’m calling it the vagina chronicals.

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

I hope Jason Stark watches that play!!!

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

All right folks here we go…

Mike R

Step away from the keyboard son- you look smarter that way. Dare you to swing a bat hard enough to hit big league pitching with two bad thumbs.

No Chop

Said I was done with you because you were to big a pu$$ to show up when the Braves where beating the Mets. And I am, coward…

N8

The kid is throwing strikes. Kelly watched the most hittable pitch he got in the first. When you have a guy that changes speeds and has great control you go after the first good fastball you see. Why do you think Maddux threw so few pitches? Guess the whole damned league just had a poor approach.

Does this team have major issues? Absolutely. How different does the team look with a healthy Chipper? Much better. Kyle had a bad inning but has settled in. He isn’t walking guys which is a positive. This team needs a spark (Salty every day at 1st?) and one more starter. Is Cormier good enough ? We shall see. But for god’s sakes get ahold of yourselves!!!

By Mike R

May 27, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

To Meanie,

I grew up listening to the Braves on radio starting in 1967. Ernie Johnson Sr taught me much about baseball. Unless you can name the starting lineup of the 1969 Braves off the top of your head, don’t try to argue baseball with me. Chipper is so wooried about his numbers that he will not play with an injury. Do you really think Cal Ripken would have missed multiple games with a bruised thumb.

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Mets winning again…how about now? Should we be worried yet?

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

More bad news for the brave fans. The Mets are winning 4-1. you’re looking at 4 1/2 back…….

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine - nope, it’s not even the all-star break yet. Atlanta typically saves its best for the second half. As long as we can keep it within striking distance, we’ll be OK.

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Mike R

So you’re an old fart. Congratulations… the ticker hasn’t gone out yet. Your second comment about Chipper was even dumber than the first. He is locked up in what is sure to be his last long-term contract. At this point he’s a fringe HOF player whose candidacy would be enhanced much more by a couple of rings vs. a bunch of stats. I am certain that he knows this. Now go drink your prune juice. Isn’t it about your nap time too?

By A-ville Ranger

May 27, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

We’ll look back and see this as the series that started the slide to third.We just don’t have the starters for a long season.

By chrisklob

May 27, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Mike, I have to disagree with your comments about Chipper also. It wasn’t too long ago that he gave up his regular position, where he made several All-Star appearances to play left field, a position that he knew that he would NEVER make an All-Star appearance there because of all of the great OF’s in the NL. He did this to make room for Castilla because he thought that it would make the overall team better. So, to say he has no heart is simply unfair. JD Drew played with no heart and Chipper Jones is NO JD Drew

It’s also impossible for ANYONE other than Chipper to determine how much pain he has or how it affects his ability to swing a bat. If he thinks that this injury makes him a liability to the team then I applaud him for sitting. I’d rather have a weaker-hitting Prado at third than an injured Chipper there, especially since he’s said that batting aggravates his thumbs. Chipper should continue to sit until he is healthy enough to swing the bat and, more importantly, GET HEALTHY FOR THE REST OF THIS LONG SEASON.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 27, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Kyle Davies does possess a bit of consistency—he consistently throws a flat, straight pitch right down the middle of the plate!…

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

steelcav,

The 2nd half may not matter…

By Joe

May 27, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Where (when) have I seen this before?

By A-ville Ranger

May 27, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Mcbride doesn’t have a delivery that will ever be consistent.As for Davies he’s just too damn soft.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Steelcav, have you seen your inter-league schedule in June? You also don’t play the Mets or the phillies until August. You’re second half won’t help you.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 27, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

The problem may lie within those ugly red jerseys—as well as within those who wear them…

By berigan

May 27, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

I posted this on the other blog, which has coach say that I was crazy, and it was the dumbest comment he had read on this forum all week(Which tells me he only reads about 10% of the comments here!)

OK, deep breath…..ANY chance J.S. at least listens to offers on Brian McCann , if it involves a #2 starter? The A’s have… Danny Haren 5-2, 1.70 Joe Blanton 4-2, 3.59 Chad Gaudin 4-1, 2.58 *Joe Kennedy 1-4, 3.62 Rich Harden 1-1 1.41

Now, we all know Harden has the best stuff, but is too often injured to consider. But, the A’s really need offense, Jason Kendall has 3 homers since 2005, and is hitting .185 so far. So, should(could?) the braves consider trading McCann???

By A-ville Ranger

May 27, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Oh for the days when Kent Mercker was the fifth starter.

By Mike R

May 27, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Meanie,

Maybe old but I have forgotten more baseball than you will ever know. But enough personal stuff… My point is that Chipper is not the man Murphy or Ripken was. He should be playing brusied hand or not. But maybe he just has a low pain tolerance… Poor thing.

By MEB

May 27, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Well… I think its official, the Braves are in a pretty bad funk right now. I was present for the games Friday and Saturday and there was more than the foul odor of smoke in the air. The foulness is even worse with Mets and Phillies coming on our blog to gloat. Oh well, the worm will turn so take heart Braves fans.

Mike R So… how does it feel to be old and clueless?

By beki

May 27, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Now the game is out of hand: Phils are up 11 - 1 ( Salty’s first homer the only Braves’point. I am gone to the pool.

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

This is a .500 team at best. Good thing they had that 7-1 start…under .500 since

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 27, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Actually Met fans—TheJackAss is a fan of the Detroit Tigers…thus you are barking up the wrong tree here!…moron…

This is boring!…Think I’ll go outside and watch the grass grow…

By parks

May 27, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

No Chop, you are a coward

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Gotta love all of these people who can predict the future, especially those unbiased Mets fans…lol. Sure, there are concerns, but this is a slump folks, plain and simple. We will snap out of this.

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

No way the Braves trade McCann. Too many things to overcome…long-term contract, fan-favorite, local boy, all-star, and oodles of talent. No way.

Now Salty on the other hand…….

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

I see the regular bloggers are MIA. You know, the ones who go on and on about how the Mets aren’t that good. The one keep telling us “Watch out for the braves”. Four words for you brave fans “YOUR RUN IS OVER” (Five more)…..“STOP LIVING IN THE PAST!!”

By parks

May 27, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Yes no chop, they are MIA like you are when the Braves own the Muts

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Mike R you truly aren’t worth any more of my time. I am certain that Ernie Johnson Sr. was able to teach you much more about baseball than all my travel and high school team coaches, pros who run the various training programs I went through, and my best friend’s dad (when I was a kid) who was an active scout for the Expos at the time he coached me in Little League could have ever taught me. You win.

By berigan

May 27, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

Mike R, it’s Chipper’s thumb, not his hand. Try swinging at 95 mph pitches without having your thumb on the bat! Unlike Ripken, Chipper knows when he should or shouldn’t be out there.

I always liked Ripken, but Ripken put his streak above all else, and played thru terrible streaks(I remember more than once where he had a month of hitting .180) when a day off would have helped him, and his team.

When Murph was 35, he hit 18 homers and had a .252 average for the Phillies. He played 44 more games over the next two years then was out of baseball.

From 1996 all the way through 2003(8 seasons) Chipper was on the DL exactly no times. Chipper is No Fred Lynn, or JD Drew, if he misses time, he is hurt!

By meansonny

May 27, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Let’s get those bats going.

Nice to see prado and Thor produce.

By MBATL

May 27, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Phillies were 3-10, 6.5 games out, on April 18.

The same people who wrote them off then are probably writing the Braves off now. Amateurs.

Most of you guys thought the Braves were a very good team oh, about 10 days ago. Now they’re junk. Aside from the loss of Gonzo, what has changed? Like SteelCav said, we’re in a slump.

But, it’s no fun blogging with a bunch of folks who apparently get some kind of personal satisfaction out of our team’s struggles. (N8, you’re at the head of that class… a while back you were an engaging Braves fan suffering from a bit of pessimism … now you’re reveling in the role of Braves H8ter. It’s tiresome.)

Now the chump du jour is Chipper Jones… unbelievable!

And No Chop… the Mets are very good. Still can’t believe that pitching is gonna hold up, but in all honesty, I’ve been saying that since spring training :).

L8r.

By parks

May 27, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

If we could just play the Muts all year we would be 108-54.

By parks

May 27, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

MBATL gets it

By Coach

May 27, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

A 42 game stretch of .500 ball is anything but a slump. It’s indicative of an extremely flawed baseball team. They are directly dependent on the extra base hit , they cannot win without dominant pitching and right now they look like anything but a team that is headed for the playoffs.

By Steve from OH

May 27, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

I say the Braves offer Pena, Thorman and a pithcer to the A’s and move McCann to 1st.

By berigan

May 27, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Amazing how Salty can adjust mid AB!!! Swung and looked bad on both a curveball, and changeup. Took a pitch then just went with an outside pitch and flicked it into shallow right field. 22 and never played above AA???

Andruw hits a homer(And looked decent for once) now getting a few innings off in a blow out, a smart move by Bobby. See, nothing but sunshine from me! ;)

By Mitchie-san

May 27, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

I have said it before and I will say it again, DONT TRADE SALTY! Whew, sorry for yelling, but I had to get that out.

Happy Memorial Day to all Veterans and to all my fellow Shipmates, Marines, Airmen and Soldiers.

Hoo-rah!

By tbo

May 27, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Same old crap. Bobby Cox trying to manage a horrible pitching staff. Davies sux, McBride sux, Paronto sux, Yates sux. Basically all of them suck except Smoltz, Hudson, Wickman, and Soriano. Oh, and please trade that no-hitting Andruw.

By meansonny

May 27, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Coach,

We can agree to disagree.

But we were above .500 ball before this recent skid.

We were within a game of the best record in baseball a little over a week ago.

This is a slump. Hopefully, the bats can start figuring themselves out right now.

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Coach,

Exactly…

By Jman

May 27, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Mets fans should rejoice. If the Braves could beat any team other than the Mets it’d be a different story though.

By berigan

May 27, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san, good point to wish every vet a happy Memorial Day! Without you guys(and gals) we wouldn’t have the right to gripe about our lack of a 5th starter. Or 4th starter.

By Lew

May 27, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

That was the best Skip Caray line of all times “6 or 7 hits, 5 walks and an error or two and we’re right back in it.” Excellent.

By Mitchie-san

May 27, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

berigan, Thank you for that.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Berigan , the Braves signed McCann to a long term six year contract running through 2012 with an option for 2013 and you think they are going to trade him ? Well good for you , glad your making sense. Meansonny , If 42 games in a row of .500 ball doesn’t sink in and register as a problem , then you must love mediocrity.

By tyyosh

May 27, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Has anyone noticed how Salty easily pulled a Wagner fastball the other night? Now 2 ropes against Hamels. What is always interesting is this - which players can hit the league’s best pitchers? Those are the guys you keep, because those are the guys who can make a difference in 9th innings, big series, and postseasons. The guys who have fat stats amassed against 4-A guys, in blowouts, etc. - those are the guys you can trade.

By Bob, Journalist

May 27, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

With the exception of HK, we may be understating Chipper’s intelligence … he’s no rocket scientist but he certainly seems to know when it’s best not to play.

Methinks success should be measured in terms of accomplishing one’s objectives … it’s hard to fail if you don’t have any objectives … maybe that’s why many don’t seem to have any and most of those that do are simplistic and/or vague … “see the ball, hit the ball” … a rookie hitting a homerun while trying to bunt the ball should keep his bags packed.

Comparisons with Maddox are both bemusing and amusing … not that much to Maddox, he was, and evidently still is, superb in outthinking his opponent and in developing and executing a well conceived plan … dollars to Krispy Kremes that he measures success in the same as I.

Evidence is mounting that some of our players; throwers and batsmen alike, don’t even have a plan … and some of those that do can’t consistently execute.

Maybe we’re lucky they don’t … as a batsman, Andruw is the exception … he has a plan … and executes it well.

Maybe “well conceived” is as important than “well executed” … you and me, together life’a a pleasure, but apart …

The talent is there … where’s the team … who has the plan?

Speaking of fleas, time to feed the dog … lunch anyone?

By parks

May 27, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

once again, If we just played the Muts all year we would have the best record in baseball.

By Ron

May 27, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

This blog is crazy, we got Met fans here, Philly fans, a Southern Jackass who roots for the Tigers, why he is on here your guess is good as mine, a guy who is in beastiality (that is Robert if you did not know), he got those a Donkey fetish about Cox!!! We have alot of other characters on here also, but that is all in a days work!!!

By meansonny

May 27, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Coach,

I don’t take offense to your stance.

But look at how we have performed in each series and tell me if our struggles go back more than 2 weeks.

This is a recent phenomenon. Not a season long one.

By berigan

May 27, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Coach, what makes sense is that we have 2 excellent young catchers, and unless one of them changes positions, we will have to trade one of them. Salty has a better arm, and will hit for more power than McCann. McCann will most likely hit for a higher average.

A lot of teams would love to have McCann because he is young, good and signed up for a long time at a nice rate. Oakland would love that.

We have all these supposedly swell middle infielders, but I don’t hear any talk of teams trying to get them. More teams have good SS’s and 2nd baseman, than a “stud” catcher. You have to know we will not get to the playoffs with these starters!

Oakland is 5 games back, the Angels are threatening to run away with the West. Oakland has little chance at the wildcard. It’s win the West or no playoffs. So, they need to act sooner, rather than later. A’s need offense, but don’t think they need middle infielders.

By meansonny

May 27, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Coach,

I don’t take offense to your stance.

But look at how we have performed in each series and tell me if our struggles go back more than 2 weeks (losing 3 of the past 4 series)

This is a recent phenomenon. Not a season long one.

By MEB

May 27, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Maybe this late rally will put some fuel in the tank for the upcoming road trip. Hey, just looking for any bright side to this lousy weekend for the Braves. Think I will go play some golf. See ya!

By tbo

May 27, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

If Cox could get himself thrown out for the entire season we may have a chance this year.

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

meansonny,

They are under .500 since the 2nd week…how’s that recent?

By Summerteeth

May 27, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Going, going….gone. June swoon coming up folks.

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Rough game and series. My stat of the day however:

Braves last swept the Phillies in Atlanta in May ‘95. How did that year turn out? Wonder what the records, etc. were on that date? It’s a long season, folks. You just never know. Smoltz could go 1-10 from here on out while James goes 10-1. Andruw could hit 40 HR from now until the end of the year. You just never know. Coach, most Divisions are won by 92-96 win teams. I’ll bet that if you hand pick the right dates every 96-66 record has a 21-21 stretch. I’d also venture to guess that injuries contributed. Year before last Houston won the NL after going 15-30. Last year the Cards won 83 games. Their whole season was 21-21. During our run we were running second in May more frequently than we were running first. A few times we even overcame large All-Star break deficits. Of course, those seasons were aided by additions such as A. Pena, F. McGriff, D. Neagle, T. Mulholland (yes, he was big that season). Will Liberty do what it takes to spark this team? That’s the multimillion dollar question…

By Coach

May 27, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

My Stance , My STANCE ? Hey , maybe you just don’t want to hear the truth , so here it is. Last five games 1-4 , last ten 3-7 , last fifteen 5-10 , last twenty 9-11 , last twenty-five 12-13 , last thirty 15-15 , last thirty-five 18-17 , last forty-two 21-21. There you go sonny , read it and weep.

By A-ville Ranger

May 27, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

meanysonny Hopefully the bats will start figuring themselves out ? unbelievable ! how can anybody watch this series and come away thinking hitting is the problem ? How many times are you going to score 14,12 and 8 ? This team has pitching problems,Andrew can catch fire and run a marathon around the bases,it you give up 13 it won’t matter.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

I guess I’ll talk to LEW, Joebrave and braveheart some other time. I know this isn’t a good one.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Berigan , yes we have two young catchers. We also have an aging 35 year old , beat up third baseman who cannot stay healthy. Which makes more sense to you , trade a 23 year old guy with Johnny Bench potential or move one of them(McCann or Salty) to third when Chipper’s contract is up after next season ? I’m not even going to argue with your answer because every blogger in here knows your gonna get it wrong.

By Jimbo

May 27, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Woodward and Orr got three hits combined. Fathead finally hit a homer…Of course they were losing by 159 runs at the time.

By Mitchie-san

May 27, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Kinda stings when you put it like that Coach….

By Jimbo

May 27, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

With all the great baseball minds in the front office and in the dugout how is it they can’t find a place for Salty to play every day?

By Braves Fan 79

May 27, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

The Braves will be just fine. I said weeks ago that because of our weak bench and bobbys obsession with giving redmen WAY 2 many chances….theres no way we win more games than the mets in a complete season. However i DO believe we will win the wildcard and then BEAT the mets where it counts the most….in the PLAYOFFS!! Congrats mets fans….u have a gm that was smart enough to know the only way to take down the mighty Braves was to start stealing away there best players. So dont act like your teams a original or anything…… a true fan forever….Go Braves!! And phillies fans….u know yall cant talk….the last time yall did anything was back in 93 with good old john Kruck.

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Coach, you just said it. Your numbers completely discount the 7-1 start, but include the recent 3-7 skid. This is typical pessimism. If you look at both those streaks as anomalies, you are left with 18-14 in between, a 91 win clip. Guess what the current season win % comes out to? You guessed it, 91 wins. There will be hot weeks and bad weeks but at the end you are what you are. Never as good as your best week, never as bad as your worst. The Braves are a healthy Chipper and one starter from achieving that 95 wins most think is the number to win.

By brian

May 27, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

The more Salty plays the more it looks like he needs regular at bats in the majors. The one place for him is 1B. He can still catch every 5th game or so to keep his value high. He will not be an answer long term at catcher with McCann, and LF has actually been productive for us this year. I love Thorman, but Salty needs regular at bats. The Braves also need Salty in the lineup

By Get Real

May 27, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Coach…you are right on. There are serious flaws that need to be addressed. I certainly agree with idea that adding a solid 3rd starter will make a big difference…but that’s only the beginning.

By IlliniBrave

May 27, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Uh, I just logged on for the first time today and thought I was in the wrong place. WTF?

Is this a Mets blog? Or a Phillies blog? Or just an “I f-ing hate the Braves blog”? Or an “I ONLY KNOW HOW TO USE ALL CAPS” blog?

Whatever. I thought it was about Braves fans talking about their team. Hey DOB, can we sart a new blog? One where we can get back to fun discussions about our team? No trash talking. No sidebar discussions between Mets and Phillies fans. AND NO CAPS ALLOWED?

By Ron Roberts

May 27, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Wow, whatta turn of events, eh? Can’t say I didn’t see this coming, though, aside from the Tim Hudson meltdown. That being said, we can’t ride on wins every time those guys toe the rubber. And simple math would tell ya that even if we did, we wouldn’t hang with the MetroSUXuals or win the wild card outright, either.

Somebody has to step up; we’re not in a position to go buy a starter from somebody else who’s out of our price range. For that matter, not many teams are out of their races that even have a worthy arm for us to give up prospects to better this team.

Kyle Davies has to get his sh!t together. Three of his last four have been good; today blew.

Lance Cormier has to stay healthy, come back and be what he was in spring training. I’m fairly confident in his abilities, but not so much in the knowledge that he’s definitely coming back. The Mike Gonzalez saga makes me worry about Lance’s nagging pains.

Nobody from Richmond’s gonna be that guy this year. Face it. Just isn’t gonna happen. Oscar Villareal has been decent at times and horrible at times.

I still say he’s the best option to put in the rotation if Kyle Davies just can’t be consistent or Lance Cormier never makes it up. Lance’s last outing gives me hope, but other’n that, we’re gonna have to sit around and wait for Schuerholz to pull off something magical. It’s what they pay him the big bucks for, right?

We’re beating the Mets because our good arms tend to be on the mound when we play ‘em. After that, it’s bottom-of-the-rotation fodder for the opponents to tear us a new one with. That’s gotta change, somehow.

By Todd A

May 27, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

A 3 game losing skid with Ben Sheets on deck.Oh…the horror.Smoltz pitches 14 shut-out innings after dislocating his pinky on his pitching hand,yet the team’s designated leader(by whom I don’t know)Chipper Jones misses nearly a week with a hurt hand,including the crucial game 3 versus the Mets.Chipper is a bum.Pure and simple.This team is never going to achieve anything substantial until Chipper and Andruw are shown the door.These two don’t care if they play,and they don’t care if the Braves win another WS.The Braves in dire need of some REAL leadership in the clubhouse.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

sonny , you can skewer(lie) the numbers if you want but it still won’t hide the truth. I gave it too you backwards , so here it is forwards , including all fifty games played. First five 4-1 .800 , first ten 7-3 .700 , first fifteen 10-5 .666 , first twenty 13-7 .650 , first twenty-five 16-9 .640 , first thirty 19-11 .633 , first thirty-five 23-12 .657 , first forty 25-15 .625 , first forty-five 27-18 .600 and first fifty 28-22 .560……… recent phenomenon , absolutely. The Braves have been going backwards all season long , getting worse the farther they get into the year. Go ahead Meanie , argue with it or lie if you like. Nothing can change these numbers.

By L. M. Hull

May 27, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Bobby better be careful or he will have as many “thrown out of games” as Andruw does strikeouts.

By A-ville Ranger

May 27, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Too many fans can’t understand the difference in statistical trends and structural problems.This is a good hitting team,not the 27 yankees they looked like in april but good enough.The thin rotation is the structural wrench in the gear box.You can add the lack of a solid lefty in the pen but it’s the rotation that may point to a third place finish.

By N8

May 27, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

How’s this for the rotation nickname?

Smoltz and a bunch of dolts.

By The Truth

May 27, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Just trade this team for a sack of stale donuts and be done with it. We would still be getting the better end of the deal. These guys need to go down and apply for a job at the Varsity. That is all they are good for and always have been. Maybe Cox can make the chili. ‘Yes Sir, would you like fries with that chilidog, Massa????’

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 27, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Coach, please stop invalidating your entire argument with that outlandish phrase “Johnny Bench potential.” That’s ludicrous. Downright stupid, in fact.

Hate to burst your bubble, but there’s only one Johnny Bench. And no catcher the Atlanta Braves have ever had behind the plate comes anywhere close to the talent Bench had. Maybe you meant to say “Earl Williams potential.”

Gregor Blanco ain’t gonna be any Rickey Henderson, either.

But hey — at least our six runs today bumps up our runs-per-game average for May!

By N8

May 27, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

MBATL

Earlie you asked “what has changed, in the last couple weeks other than Gonzalez?”

Uh….Tim Hudson has completely fallen apart. Kyle Davies has LOST what it appeared he may have found. For starters.

Coach

After a loooong off-season of bickering with eachother, it appears as though we are on the same wavelenght. Congrats for actually getting it.

21-22 over 43 games is not a slump. It’s a trend of mediocre baseball, which is exactly what MEDIOCRE BASEBALL TEAMS are supposed to play like.

Wake up people.

By StingerSplash

May 27, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

Since the Braves were in spring training camp, of their top 26 players, two are done for the season (Hampton and Gonzalez), two have been released (C. Wilson and Redman) and one was all but released (Langerhans). Not good. That’s a bad sign, almost as bad a sign as losing three of four to the Nats and getting swept (and more than just swept, but hammered like a 22-year-old in Buckhead) by the Phillies.

By L. M. Hull

May 27, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

Dear Meanie: So some of us are ole farts; and you are a young(er) fart. Don’t make no difference—they smell the same.

By joebrave

May 27, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Joebrave just got back from watching his Nephew graduate High School,and Joebrave finds these,little peckergnat sumbitch,sockcucker Philthies and Mutts,Ba$stards on the Braves cases,not to worry we gotta let you,arrogant,ego-maniacal stuckficks,get a little bit of the big head for now….

I would’nt get too cocky your A*******es still gotta play some more games against us .

and J.S. what in the blue he11 are you doing you teatottling prick,don’t just do something godammit sit there your turning into a worthless piece of $hit…Get off your goddam @ss you arrogant futhermucker!!!!!

By parks

May 27, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

Here comes N8 being a “realist” again. LMAO

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

It’s apparently pointless Coach Shaun. Streaks are streaks. By the way I forgot one earlier: Add the two streaks together (7-1 plus 3-7) and you get 10-8, a 90 win pace. As I said before the 18-14 in between is a 90 win pace. Do you truly believe that the Braves won’t have a 7-3 stretch at any point? Of course they will. I’d bet at the end of around 50 games though, assuming no major changes, they’ll win about 5 out of 9 (or 27-28 out of 50) all season.

By Ricky

May 27, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

I have to say this sweep hurt especially since the Mets swept the Marlins. God I can’t stand the Mets!

As for the back end our starting rotation, Kyle Davies has the potential to be a solid starter if he could stay consistant and throw some first pitch strikes my god. Chucky needs to limit his pitch count or build some stamina. When he gets up to his 75th pitch he blows up. As for our 5th starter I hope to god Lance can come in and stay healthy and eat of some innnings, while keeping us in the game. He looked solid at the end of the year last season and spring training, but he still worries me.

Its still early so no need to panic but we dont want to fall to far behind. Still have a tough road coming up.

By parks

May 27, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

Tim Hudson has completely fallen apart

LMAO again!

By journalist jimmy smith

May 27, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

journalist is going outside soon to prepare the grill for tomorrow’s big cookout. already smoke is in the air and journalist has yet to begin. jimmy smith would like to again thank all veterans for your service and journalist wishes everyone a happy memorial day. in the spirit of memorial day, journalist wants to do something nice for a veteran. so, jimmy smith has gone in with another blogger who wishes to remain anonymous and together jimmy smith and this other blogger have purchased a 60-day tuition to charm school for sja. happy memorial day! all bloggers will be well served by this gift and it may mean the difference in dates or no dates for sja. hey, it may mean the difference in staying in or coming out of the trailer. journalist and l-w are happy to be able to do this. whoa! is that too much information? now, calling birds has been very rewarding for this journalist. when stress mounts (as in today’s ballgame) jimmy smith can go outdoors and call in the songbirds. that is why the backyard is full of birds today and if there is a shortage of songbirds elsewhere this should explain that shortage. and carroll rogers, what is this about one little opening in francoeur’s nose? that is too much information! imagine the passages in a bobby cox nose with all the plumbing that has been done there the past few seasons! and one day, one day, the skipper may lose that world series ring in one of those passages. oh, the humanity! smoltz will have to call heim habib to remove that ring! or roto-rooter …and now, off to the grill …

By Efrim

May 27, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

3-6 against the Red Sox, Mets and Phillies.

THE NEXT 14 GAMES ARE CRITICAL!!!!!

10-4!!!!!!!

WE HAVE TO DO THAT!!!!

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

Oh and by the way Coach: using your logic the Braves will trend downward all season. Why? You’re starting with an .800 clip! By your logic a team that started 0-4 but finshes 62-100 would be able to claim an upward trend. If you start at .800 but know that a great season would mean a .600 finish the “downward” trend you speak of is inevitable. All season long.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Yes , Salty has Johnny Bench potential and I’ll stick to my opinion whether you like it or not , so screw you. There was only one Ricky Henderson and your blatant outright lie of accusing me of comparing Blanco to him is just that , A BIG FAT LIE ! N8 , I happen to believe this team is much better than they have played. But , when they underachieve , it just pi$$es me off to no end. so , yea , I’m fighting mad at my team for not living up to their talent or ability !

By We have Mets the Enemy

May 27, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Nice maturity, Ricky.

Maybe the mean old Mets will cool off soon like the Brave have.

By beki

May 27, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

I am back from the pool and didn’t think the score could have gotten worse; but, it did. 13-6? At least we got a few more runs-for what’s that worth. As for Kyle Davies,in one respect,he’s like Glavine and had a bad inning that put the team behind the proverbial “8 ball.” Homels was just the better pitcher this time. Every pitcher has bad days at the ballpark;today, it was Davies’s turn.

By joebrave

May 27, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

And once again Salty does not start… What are you doing Booby,Geez I thought the object of the game was to beat inferior and yes you read it here the Philthies are Inferior……

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this

Coach your 5:50 was perfect. You’re p** because they look awful RIGHT NOW. The bad stretches are never fun… makes the good times that much better. The funny thing is that most were feeling good after the Mets series, and most predicted we’d lose the pitching matchups today and yesterday. No matter how much Kyle improves he’ll likely struggle against lefty-heavy lineups. That’s what 4-5 starters do. We were supposed to win game 1, but Hudson “fell apart”. Actually, if you watch that game again, Huddy had some awful luck that game between seeing eye grounders, choppers off the plate, and bad umpiring. That’s baseball. It’s Braves baseball right now, but not for the season…

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 27, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

Keep expecting Saltalamacchia to be Johnny Bench, Coach, and you’re the one who’ll be screwed. It’s an easy phrase to throw around, but one no catcher since Bench has lived up to.

Years ago, the more starry-eyed and unrealistic Braves’ fans used to say Andruw was better than Willie Mays, too, but you sure as hell don’t hear that kind of talk anymore.

Having seen how useless it is to correct bloggers like you and Shaun, however, I’ll leave you to your delusions, Coach.

You’re a stat guy, though, so be sure to check in 15 years or so and see how far short of the great Johnny Bench your hero fell.

By brian

May 27, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

If Chipper is out any more he needs to go on the DL and the Braves need to call up Escobar to give him his shot. The better he hits, the quicker Jones’s hand will heal

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 27, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

Joebrave, Saltalamacchia was the starting catcher in the game I watched today. Don’t know what game you were watching.

By joebrave

May 27, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

Mutss fat chance!!!!Philthies no chance!!!!!and all you mutts arses can go to he11

By joebrave

May 27, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Sorry guys my bad!I see Salty started today…

By MBATL

May 27, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

N8, I think the Braves have six very good hitters (Harris/Dias (count as one), Renteria, Chipper, Francoeur, McCann, and Kelly Johnson). Some are not hitting so well right now, and some are hurt, but they’re all good, imo.

Of the 2 remaining starters, I’m not a big AJ fan, but he’s likely to get better, not worse; and Thorman is likely to get better too - that’s been his tendency at every level - start slow, and improve as he adjusts to better pitching.

So even though we haven’t been scoring much the last couple of weeks, it’s a long summer, and I think the Braves will score plenty of runs.

However, like it or hate it, this team does need to hit for power to succeed. We need AJ to get at least a little hot (just like the Phils needed Howard to come around), and we need McCann to get back to his ol’ self (I think he will).

Starting pitching: Smoltz is obviously solid. Hudson has had 2 bad starts… maybe he’s done forever (!), but I doubt it. I don’t expect a sub-3 ERA out of him, but I do expect a sub 3.5. We’ll see.

James has not pitched bad, but needs to be more efficient. Yeah, better to have him at #4 than #3 (which really means just that it would be nice to have a another solid starter)… but we don’t, for the moment. Davies is 23. He shows flashes of near-brilliance, then decides to overuse his changeup, and leaves pitches up in the zone. As to a #5 starter, I’m not too worried. We’ll find someone to throw a 5 ERA every 8th game or so, and that’s all that’s needed.

If James, Davies, or someone else doesn’t step it up in the next 2 months, we may have to look for another starter, and I imagine we can find a way to do that without giving up Salty. Hope it’s not necessary, but maybe.

I think the bench will change a lot between now and October. Prado has ONE strikeout in 24 AB’s, I think. If he keeps putting the bat on the ball, he’ll be solid, and can replace Orr as backup to 2B/3B. If we’d ever decide to play Salty some at 1B (and maybe he’s just not ready, I don’t know), we could call up Pena as a backup catcher, freeing up Salty to play more.

I don’t know how that will work out… that’s just one opinion. But we’ve got a lot of options. It’s just not time to panic.

Bottom line, I THINK we’ve got a pretty good baseball team - regardless of what we’ve done over the last 2 weeks. I think the Braves can win the 56 PCT or so that it typically takes to make the playoffs.

Maybe not… maybe as you suggest, we’re just no good.

By joebrave

May 27, 2007 6:25 PM | Link to this

Hey Phillyt fan why don’t you spit out the remains of los jailbird squeezins,and find yourself something to do you pathetic little puke!!!!

By Baves Fan

May 27, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

This fan is with the coach. The guy is dead on with his assessment of the downward trend of the Braves.

By joebrave

May 27, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

To all my fellow Veterans,Happy Memorial Day……

By A-ville Ranger

May 27, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

MATL If it takes two months for this rotation to shake out,it won’t matter.The Mets are a .600 or better team and some team will be at .580 or so for the wild card.one excellent,one average and two below average starters won’t be enough this year.

By N8

May 27, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

Keep on laughing Parks.

When this team finishes with the same record as last year (or worse), due to NO STARTING PITCHING.

You’ll be walking away shaking your head, saying “how did THAT just happen, after all, we DID start the year 7-1?”

I’m not gonna get into Tim Hudson’s numbers in his last six starts, I’ve done it twice. The people that see it…well…they see it. The others, still think Andruw’s gonna break out any minute now.

We have Smoltz to rely on AND THAT IS IT. The other four guys (do we even have somebody to call a 5th starter?), CANNONT be guaranteed to keep us in the game. SMOLTZ CAN!

In case you missed it the other day, I posted a stat that stated (yes I get he closed for 4 years), that Smoltz has NOT allowed 5 runs or more in back to back starts since April of 1999!!!!

So when I say guarantee, yes, I mean literally we are guaranteed that there is a HIGH percentage of a chance that he will keep us in the game.

Can you say that for ANY other player Bobby throws out there, including Hudson?

Since Tim Hudson has become a Brave here are the stats for our “top 4 starters” that are on the roster right now, in relation to how many times they’ve allowed as many as 4 runs in a start:

Hudson:

75 starts, 4 runs allowed 31 times (41% of the time). Which means 2 out of every 5 times Hudson takes the ball he’s gonna allow at least 4 runs.

Smoltz:

79 starts, 4 runs allowed 24 times (25% of the time). Which means that 1 out of ever 4 times Smoltz takes the ball he’s gonna allow at least 4 runs.

Chuck:

28 starts, 4 runs allowed 8 times (29% of the time). Which means that 1 out of every 3 times Chuck takes the ball he’s gonna allow at least 4 runs. (note that for the most part this year, he hasn’t been able to get past the 6th inning, so even though he hasn’t allowed 4 runs or more that often, he HAS taxed our bullpen)

Davies:

36 starts, 4 runs allowed 18 times (50% of the time). Which means EVERY OTHER time Davies takes the ball he’s gonn allow at least 4 runs.

What does that all mean? To me, it means that we have ONE GUY that is consistantly capable of STOPPING a losing streak. Which is countered by one guy that, more often than not, is STARTING a losing streak every other time he’s on the mound.

If I had to assign “spots” in the rotation to our four starters, I would say we have a definite #1 in Smoltz. Two #3’s in Hudson and Chuck. As for Davies, calling him a #5 quality starter is being NICE at best.

So the way I see it, we need a #2, and a legitimate #5 before we can compete with the Phillies for the wild card. Between Hudson and Chuck we’ve got our #3 & #4 guys, depending on which one of them does well from week to week.

I agree with many of the other posters on our problem being pitching. PERIOD. Other than Andruw being Andruw, our offense is good enough to win most games not started by a LHP NOT named Tom Glavine.

I don’t want Salty to get traded, but if he could bring us a legitimate #2 starter for not only this year, but a young guy that could be a #2 (possibly our Ace) for the future, JS should pull the trigger. Yeah, good luck on any team giving up a pitcher that could help us right now. It aint gonna happen.

And if I read one more poster mention Dontrelle Willis, I’m gonna puke. He hasn’t been that much better than what we have after Smoltz.

You know what’s “ironic” in hindsight?

Greg Maddux is making 10 million dollars this year. We wasted 3 million combined on Wilson and Redman, add to that the 2.35 million for Gonzalez and the money we got in insurance for Hampton, and affording Maddux was within reach.

I understand that he isn’t the “future” answer for our rotation, but…..

By N8

May 27, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

MBATL

Based on your 6:20 post, I think we’re in line of what we “need” to compete for the wild card. It appears as though we are both OK with the lineup (other than Andruw), and feel the rotation needs some serious help. I appear to think it needs more help than you, but hey! What’s a Debbie Downer supposed think? LOL!

The reason I say we’re only in line for the wild card, is because by the time JS and Bobby do anything besides wait for it to “take care of itself” we will be in much too big of a hole to catch the Mets.

But if things get solved within the next couple of weeks, (a tall order with our upcoming schedule), there isn’t any reason with the talent on this roster to think that we can’t put together a streak of winning 20 out of 30, or so to climb right back into the wildcard race. Which I realize that we are STILL IN RIGHT NOW. But not for long, if the rotation doesn’t come back to where we need them to be.

With Gonzo, Soriano and Wickman (along with the timely 2 out RBI’s that we’rent gonna last forever), we were able to mask some of the 3-5 spots in the rotation’s deficiancies. Not to mention Hudson was dominating.

Hudson returning to his earlier season dominance, ALONE could turn the tide for us. But if his last two starts are the beginning of a trend, we’re in big trouble.

Like I’ve said a few times, I’m OK with trading Salty if we get something GREAT in return. But if JS trades him for a veteran/journeyman/back of the rotation guy, I’m gonna be extremely pizzed!

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

When asked if he was concerned following the sweep, Chipper Jones said, “In this series? No. If it continues on much past this, yes.”

Chipper knows what’s going on fellas. Once this team gets healthy (knock on wood) including Cormier, we’ll be on our way to winning 2 out of 3 again on a regular basis.

By yknot

May 27, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

This year is starting to feel like last year. If Chipper can’t play everyday this line up doesn’t look strong enough to pull off a long winning streak. Anyway the starting staff needs someone to step up and want to be an all-star. Smoltz and Hudson and pray for rain (we need it anyway). If Davies doesn’t show consistancy this season, time to look for someone else. One more year of Hampton’s contract then maybe we can get a afford someone elses superstar pitcher to help this team.

By N8

May 27, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

SteelCav

I tend to believe that Cormier will solidify the #5 spot in the rotation, but we STILL need another #2/#3 starter.

Davies has to go back to AAA, where he was supposed to be right now, and fine tune his pitches. He can still be a decent middle of the rotation guy next year (or even later this year), but if his confidence gets shattered, being up here won’t do him any good.

Those who say look at Glavine, Avery and Smoltz “struggling” early in there careers, hell even Maddux had a couple of rough years with the Cubs, are forgetting that the late 80’s Braves were HORRIBLE and not expected to win.

There’s a big difference with being allowed to grow at the ML level on a losing team, when you’re not being counted on to lead the team to the playoffs. If Davies was on the Devil Rays or the Nationals, he’d have a bigger margin for error with the fans and management. But one can’t help but feel the pressure, I’d imagine of being the Atlanta Braves rotation.

Look at guys like Odalis, Marquis, even Schmdt….they couldn’t handle it. Millwood could and he succeeded. He was just never cut out to be the Ace that other teams have tried to make him.

Face it, we were blessed with 3 guys (4 the couple of years that Neagle was here), that were AND STILL ARE capable of being their team’s Ace. And we had the ALL for the better part of a decade.

Spoiled we were, indeed.

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

N8 and others:

I have never seen a more pathetic group. Everybody was sniffing Davies’ jock after he beat the Mets. Kyle got hit hard today by the hottest offense in the NL, a lineup full of lefties. He made mistakes, yes, but the Phils still had to hit. The same exact pitches thrown at the Pirates would yield a much different result. Today he had 4 runs over 6 stuff- the Phillies made the rest. Didn’t help that the Phils had their ace. And DOB told everybody to expect a whipping with Carlyle going. I feel bad for Kyle.

By Daybed Wagmoe

May 27, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

i don’t know if this milwaukee series could come at a better time for the braves. the two clubs are actually very evenly-matched at this point:

Records: Braves 28-22, Brewers 28-22 Last 10 games: both 3-7 Runs Scored: ATL 240, MIL 230 Runs Allowed: ATL 228, MIL 217 Run Differentials: ATL +12, MIL +13

what’s more, the James-Capuano game tomorrow is also VERY evenly matched:

ERA: 4.13 (24 ER/52.1 IP for both) SO: both have 39 IP/Start: 5.2 (same # IP in 10 starts)

where they differ:

BB: James 24, Capuano 19

May ERAs: James 3.51, Capuano 5.18

Capuano has had 3 not-so-great starts in a row against 3 good teams (mets, twins, dodgers), so let’s hope the braves’ bats can keep that trend going tomorrow.

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

N8

Call me crazy, but I think Kyle bounces back his next start. His control was pretty good today (only 2 BB and one was IBB)…he just got banged around pretty good by a hot team and I might add, one that has his number.

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

Got into my Milwaukee hotel room this afternoon, turned on TBS and the score was … 13-3. Are you kidding me? Wow.

Then I checked to see how it happened, later saw the highlights, etc. Just when you think Kyle MIGHT be turning a corner, he reminds that he’s got much work to do.

Swept by the Phillies. Just think how much things changed in three days. From the win by Smoltz, when things looked pretty good for the Braves, who were, what, 11-4 against the Mets and Phils at that point after Thursday’s game? To the feeling that pervades right now….

Stunning how Chipper’s absence is felt so much more dramatically when Andruw’s not stepping up the way he did last year when Chipper was hurt. If you look back, Andruw and/or LaRoche were blazing when Chipper was out of the lineup almost every time last year. This year, none of the power guys have really picked up the slack while Chipper’s been out.

On a somewhat bright note, at least the Brewers are also struggling big-time. Still in first in a bad division, but there’s a lot of consternation up here about how the Brewers have slipped since their hot start.

By Chop Chop

May 27, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

N8, if the Braves traded Salty and considerably more for Dontrelle Willis, I’d be angry. However, the D-Train is a damn good pitcher (career 3.54 ERA, great competitor and leader, 25 years old, 11-3 lifetime mark against the Mets with a 2.39 ERA, etc…and he ain’t too shabby with the bat either) who I could accept dealing Salty for. I don’t care about his 4.80 ERA so far this year. I’m expecting him to start pitching well again. He just became a father for the first time, so I’m sure there are some late nights and extra things for him to deal with now.

In other words, I expect Willis to “progress” to the mean, just like I expect Andruw to do. Hudson is regressing to his. Davies and Chuck James haven’t established theirs yet, so we don’t really know what we’ll get out of them over the course of 30+ starts.

I just wanted to add that, for someone who loves stats so much, you sure seem to throw out a lot of historical stats for players. Hey…maybe Hudson is officially a bum now. He was a bum last year. I’ll give you that. He wasn’t a bum in ‘05. He just wasn’t an “ace”. Odds are that he’ll never be an “ace” in Atlanta. Hell, he might find himself with another team at the deadline if the Braves are out of the playoff hunt, but I think Hudson, if healthy (and based on his career stats), will be fine. You just can’t leave the guy out there late in ballgames when he’s thrown a lot of pitches. Bobby hung him out to dry the other night.

By N8

May 27, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Meanie

“I have never seen a more pathetic group.”

I’ll assume you’re talking about our rotation. If that is the case….me neither (after Smoltz of course). :-)

“I feel bad for Kyle.”

I do as well. He has no business being in a ML rotation right now. Even Bobby felt that way out of spring training, but do to injuries (Cormier and Hampton) and Redman SUCKING, he’s been forced into action. It’s that simple. He may someday turn into a middle of the rotation guy and be servicable in a ML rotation. But not right now. Too inconsistant. PERIOD. Flashes of brilliance, followed by flashes of Redman.

Like I said in my last post, that would be OK if he was on the Nats, Royals or Rays. But he’s not.

So, I too feel bad for the kid. He’s not ready. Yet here he is.

“Everybody was sniffing Davies’ jock after he beat the Mets.”

I tell you what. You go back through the blogs, and if you find ANYTHING resembling a post where it appeared as though I was NOW a Kyle Davies “backer”, you can call me a hypocrite. Sorry to tell you, that all you’re gonna find is MAYBE a post saying, that if he continues to do what he did over those three starts, he may end up being alright.

“The same exact pitches thrown at the Pirates would yield a much different result.”

So what you’re really trying to say is that he’s good enough to beat the Pirates, but NOT the Philly’s??

I’ll agree with you there.

By N8

May 27, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

DOB

Please tell me that JS isn’t gonna trade Salty for anything less than a #2 starter and future ace.

He wouldn’t dare, would he?

By Chop Chop

May 27, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

N8, when I say “throw out”, I mean “discard”. I don’t mean that you’re quoting ‘em…but do quote those from time to time when they suit you.

By bobby

May 27, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

Well, the mirrors are not working anymore. They just show the Braves for what they are. A middle of the pack team at best.

By parks

May 27, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

I will keep laughing N8 b/c you are going to continue to blog

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

I’d say rhat Kyle is capable of beating the Phillies ahen the Phillies aren’t on fire. The two homers in the first knowing that Hamels was pitching could have been deflating. Kyle actually hung tough after that til the 5th. There is no explaining the stuff that happened that inning.

By N8

May 27, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop

“I just wanted to add that, for someone who loves stats so much, you sure seem to throw out a lot of historical stats for players.”

I just think that History, whether recent or even farther back gives us more of a clue as to what to expect.

Say Andruw for instance. He has ALWAYS been streaky, whether hot or cold. At the end of the year he ends up with about 30ish HR, 110 RBI, sometimes more, sometimes less.

What those totals don’t tell you is that, he racks up most of thse numbers over about 40 percent of the games played. So I don’t disagree with anybody that’s saying “just wait, at the end of the year, Andruw’s numbers will be what they always are”.

Like I said. I agree, they will be. But that doesn’t make it good for the Braves. We are 4 games away from being 1/3 of the way done with the schedule. He has literally done NOTHING with the bat to help us win any games. Unacceptable, regardless of what he does the rest of the year.

Like DOB just said, it’s more obvious now that Chipper is out of the lineup, because the all-world CF isn’t upholding his end of the “I’ll pick up the slack” bargain.

As for Hudson, he’ll probably be fine. What I mean by fine, is what he’s been since he’s been in Atlanta. A guy that will go about 6-7 inning per start, and give us a reasonable chance to be in the game most of the tim.

His early season success, IMO, was predicated on some adujustments he had made, and he looked superb while doing so. He was getting a lot of K’s, which hasn’t been the norm for him in Atlanta and even his last couple of years in Oakland. Now since his 12K performance (which he lost btw), his K’s are down BIGTIME, and while he got out of jams in some of the games before his last two starts, his pitches have been “up” for about 5 starts now.

I don’t think it’s coincidence that he’s been getting hit harder, since the K’s are down. Something isn’t the same. Not sure what it is, but he either needs to “relearn” how to get out of jams without the K’s, or go back to whatever was giving him all the K’s.

If Randy Johsnon in his prime all of the sudden started getting only 3-4 K’s per game, and was getting hit harder, wouldn’t people question it?

I’m not saying Hudson is “done”. He can still help this team, but he hasn’t looked the same since his first five starts, even before the last two.

Maybe he was facing the Pirates lineup and that’s why he had success, huh Meanie?

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

I’d say that Kyle is capable of beating the Phillies when the Phillies aren’t on fire. The two homers in the first knowing that Hamels was pitching could have been deflating. Kyle actually hung tough after that til the 5th. There is no explaining the stuff that happened that inning.

By N8

May 27, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop

“N8, when I say “throw out”, I mean “discard”. I don’t mean that you’re quoting ‘em…but do quote those from time to time when they suit you.”

Please elaborate. I’m not saying that I don’t look for the stats that seem to “back” my thoughts up. But rarely do I leave something out to make my point look better.

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

If you need immediate relief after watching today’s ugliness, and you have HBO, I’d recommend turning it on now and watching a bit of “Mr. and Mrs. Smith.” Angelina Jolie. Talk about a quality start….

By The Truth Hurts

May 27, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this

N8, buddy, I had Hudson and Smoltz and a bunch of dolts last night. That’s pretty disconcerting to me. J/K.

Anyway, I’ll say it again: pitching, pitching, pitching. That’s the problem. This lineup is good enough over 162 games to get the job done. Even with A.J. going in the tank.

But, lest we forget…we’re 1/3 of the way through the season already. Are we going to wait until the deadline on 7/31, which is another 1/3 of the way through the season? Remember, we’ve got Cleveland, Detroit, Boston, and Minnesota to play before we play the Mets again.

Are we really pinning our hopes on Lance Cormier? I’m all for giving him a shot, but are we basing this on spring training stats? Lance Cormier to be a catalyst? Ugh.

Winning 90 games won’t win the division, but it might win the WC. Who knows? I don’t think we can trade Salty. I really don’t.

I said the other day that McCann was fine, just slumping…and CR’s blog confirmed as much today. Nobody here has inside info. on his status. Players slump…teams slump. Chipper is right, it’s not time to be overly concerned, but after 50 games everyone can see that another starter is needed. Davies too often throws, instead of pitches. Until he can locate that fastball…he’s young…

I’m not the cynic N8 is…I don’t own any rose-colored glasses, either. The deficiencies on this team are apparent and we’re not in the NL Central where it wouldn’t matter as much. Let’s see how the roadtrip goes. We don’t normally hit well in Miami and D.C., but we do pretty well in Milwaukee and Chicago. The idea is simply to hold off Philly, at least until they realize that they’re the Phillies…you know, w/o a pitching staff and bullpen.

By brian

May 27, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

DOB - what do you think about Salty not getting regular ABs? I do not want to do anything to interrupt his future and he has looked good in his limited playing time so far. I think Salty needs either to be in the minors starting everyday, or starting 1 out of 5 catching (as usual) and then 2 out of 5 games starting at 1B. I like Thorman a lot, but Salty’s ceiling is way higher and Salty has been producing when in the lineup.

What about Chipper’s injury? If he is out much longer then he probably should be on the DL retroactive to the first missed start. This would allow the Braves to give Escobar a shot. If Escobar hits, Chipper will heal much more quickly. It will also showcase Yunel both to the Braves for our future and to other teams.

By berigan

May 27, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

Coach, oh crabbie one…..

So, you don’t like the idea of trading McCann, eh? Neither do I! But, what is you suggestion to getting another #2 or #3 starter? We can’t trade Andruw. Can’t trade Chipper(I wouldn’t want to even if we could) Want to trade Frenchy? Nope, last guy I’d want to trade. Can we trade Edgar, just about our hottest hitter all year long? With their very short track record, anyone going to give up a #2 or #3 for Kelly Johnson or Thorman? We gonna trade any of our bullpen for a starter? Didn’t think so.

So, what do we have to part with? McCann, and Salty and those middle infielders in the minors that don’t seem to be what the few teams willing to give up a starter need.

I would rather keep Salty, even over McCann. He may not be the next Johnny Bench, but he may be the next Ted Simmons(At the age of 22 Ted Simmons had played 2 full seasons and had hit over .300 in each)Both switch hitters, only Salty is much bigger(Too big to be a 3rd baseman! ;) )

So, come on Coach, you like to give grief to everyone from DOB down, what do you suggest to improve our pitching? Or would you rather have both Salty and McCann on our team while we finish in 4th place?

By TK

May 27, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

The Braves need another stater…BAD! I wonder if JS can steal Eric Bedard away from the O’s??? About Salty…maybe he needs to start taking ground balls at 3rd???

By Savannah Guy

May 27, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

Hello fello Bravos faithful

First, a big ditto journalist jimmy smith, especially on this Memorial holiday weekend, thanks to all the servicemen of past and present. You guys are the real heros…not sports stars.

Well, I got back from a family outing at the beach to find that the Braves lost again. Trounced would be more like it. Spanked, dominated…b-slapped. I’m glad I didn’t see this game today. Must’ve been ugly.

So I get home and check the DOB blog to get the skinny on the drubbing and there everyone was…gone. Off I go to find Carroll’s ‘up in smoke?’ article. Guess we can scratch the question mark and put an exclamation point after the smoke cleared from this debacle of a series.

You guys seem to be pretty much behaving yourselves and joebrave has even cleaned it up (some), so I won’t add one of my ‘tween the lines’ recaps tonight Lucky you.

I see Mutts-Moron and the Phiily-Phart, the twisted-crash-the-blog-twirp-twins are at it again. My bet is that the same illiterate, juvenile dolt is blogging under several different handles for both teams. Bad uppercase Mutt is a sad head case.

Nuffa that. Anyway, my two cents: the time has come for a major shakeup of the Bravos, or we will have another year like last year (or worse). These games are like watching the 2000 internet/tech stocks spiral down during the bubble-popping bear market…in bear market scenario, you don’t get your head cut off quickly and mercifully with a sharp sword…you are bled to death with 1000 razor cuts. All the while you are lulled into thinking that you might bounce back. Oh the comparisons and analogies could go on.

It’s excruciating to see what is playing out on the field. Guess the first month perhaps Braves played over their heads and now the reality of this patchwork, young and inconsistent players has kicked in. There currently are players, most if not all with great potential, but they are not a “team”. Too few good pitchers and anemic bats are the norm today.

This ain’t the 90’s folks, where we also had trouble scoring runs, but man, we had the pitching. I hold out fading hope, but I fear the Braves are in a serious bear market and the pockets may not be deep enough or willing to re-invest. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. Bravos are getting eaten every day now.

Only three things would help rescue this team now: pitching, pitching and pitching.

There. I’m stating the obvious, but it helps…I feel better now. Sorry for rambling.

By Bob, Journalist

May 27, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

Coach, I don’t disagree with your trendline but proceed with caution … virtually any time you get off to a very fast start, year-to-date type numbers will follow that trendline for some period of time.

By berigan

May 27, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

another reason we should trade for a pitcher sooner, rather than later, is the mets might just fool Oakland into taking Lastings Millege(Hey, the brilliant Billy Beane gave up Tim Hudson for a skinny overachiever and a not so hot pitcher) for one of their starters, then we really are sunk!

Teams like the Brewers, Tigers, Yankees, Whitesox, and others will be looking for starters as well, if we wait too long, the 2-3 worth getting will be…gotten!

By Bob, Journalist

May 27, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

What are our chances …

Defensively, we have a solid outfield, regardless of who’s on first. Diaz is much better than perceived by some, as is Harris.

Chipper’s adequate at third, Edgar better than average at short, Kelly far exceeds expectations and is more than adequate at second, Scott is, as expected, below average but not an embarrassment. Thorman seems to be progressing but with all focus given to Johnson’s development at second, we don’t know all that much about the program established his development or the coaching attention he is receiving.

There seems to be the attitude that virtually anyone can play first, but the position demands a high skill level involving many complexities and proficiency only comes with dedication and practice.

McCann seems adequate behind the plate though it’s hard to evaluate any young catcher’s presence and game calling abilities since those roles are highly dependent on who’s pitching.

Bottom line defensively, our defense should win more games than it loses … and, it’s improving.

We have a reasonably good core group of pitchers … Hudson and Smoltz are both well established, capable starters … Soriano and Wickman are well established, capable relievers … better than average.

Losing Gonzalez hurt because of the impact it had on confidence and the way the last three innings will be played.

Davies and James show promise but they are inconsistent works in progress. I suggest that with young pitchers, we should be more concerned with what’s above the neck than what’s below … and with how well our catchers perform.

Lance Cormier is a concern … I know he’s supposedly doing well but feel we know just about as much regarding Aybar’s condition as we do his … I’ll be glad when he toes the rubber in Atlanta, but I’m still uncomfortable.

Chances are, if our young pitchers didn’t have the tools, they wouldn’t be on the team. Methinks the keys to our pitching staff are the pitching coaches, hitting coach, catchers, and the team psychologist.

With Lance’s return, I think we should have a better than average rotation … even with Oscar and Tyler getting a lot of work.

Chipper, Edgar, Kelly, Brian, Matt, and Willy are six effective hitters when they play within themselves … and Frenchy is improving. Potentially, Scott, Andruw, Salty and Martin make eleven.

The talent is there to have the best hitting team in the National League … with or without Chipper in the lineup … and yet, they’re inconsistent and subject to being exploited by apparent mediocrity.

Methinks the keys to our offense are both the pitching and hitting coaches, and the team psychologist. It’s essential that they must have both a master and a game plan … and understand the “whys” as well as the “whats and the “hows” underpinning both!

Such plans place everyone on the same page and is a confidence catalyst. It frequently seems that they have neither … relying on the homerun isn’t a plan, it’s a prayer … and it impairs a team’s effort to reach it’s potential.

What are our chances …

We have the talent to win it all … trades may be made that either help or hurt … but, either way, chances are we won’t come close unless significant changes are made in that which the manager and coaches are currently doing.

They should give the boys some cohesive plans that promote positive contagion and hold them to the mark!

… And We should hold *them to the mark!

By Yars

May 27, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

How can some of you diss Chipper? The man is hurt, unfortunately. For him not being in the lineup, both his thumbs must still be really sore. However, I’d rather have a Chipper at 80% than a Prado at 100% playing 3B. It looks like the Phils are right back in the NL East race. I hope Schuerholz pulls a trade for a quality starter before the all star break, & it looks like Cincy is about to clean house very soon.

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

Brian, Chipper said he’d probably be back tomorrow. Even if it’s not until Tuesday, he would have missed five games instead of 15. Not quite the same. He’s not going on DL unless he’s going to need to miss more than 10 or so games.

And Yunel Escobar’s not even on the 40-man roster. Why in the world would they use his first option just to bring him him for a very brief stay? Guys are more valuable to other teams when they’ve got all their options left. Until he’s going to come up and play a lot, no need to add him to the roster yet.

By Navigator

May 27, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard the press and a lot of fans say for years that Cox is one of the greatest managers of all time. Take away the best pitching staff in the modern era, and well he’s just as average as all of the others. Unless the new owners spend the money for more and better players, the Braves will slip back into the Abyss that held them for decades (prior to the 90’s). I do believe that this or next year will be the last year for Cox, and that will be good for the future. He’s proven over and over that he can’t develop a young team, and I believe the Braves will no longer be a stopping spot for the better free agents.

By N8

May 27, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

DOB

Mr. & Mrs. Smith, is a fine show indeed.

I hear they’re making a series out of it this fall. Obviously without Brad and Angelina.

I’m also pretty sure that it won’t be as cool as the movie. Probably around the lines of Moonlighting with Bruce Willis in the 80’s.

Enjoy.

BTW, as idiotic as it may sound, trading McCann may actually net us a better pitcher than Salty. Sure, McCann is a fan favorite, and locked up relatively cheap (actually INCREDIBLY) cheap for the next 6 years. But:

a) That’s what might make him attractive to another team.

b) It doen’t get much cheaper than league minimum, which is (I’m assuming) what Salty makes. Thus allowing us to “take on payroll” for next season, without McCann’s salary on the books.

Not sure if that’s a good idea or not. I’m sure I’ll get blasted for it, but at this point if JS is gonna try and fix this season, it’s that kind of outside the box thinking that he needs to do. For the record, in no way am I saying Salty would/could immediatley replace McCann’s prescence in the lineup, but then again…..

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

It’s misleading to say “thumb” injury on Chipper, in my opinion. Because it’s the area on the palm at the base of the thumbs that’s bruised and swollen, not the actual thumb. It’s that fatty area that’s the pad under the thumb.

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

N8, with all due respect, have you lost your mind? They’re not going to trade McCann. My god, he’s struggled a bit for a couple of weeks, by his standards. And already some want to replace him with a guy who’s had a great year in A-ball, a bad year in Double-A, a solid first month (this year) in Double-A, and some quality at-bats in a few games he’s played in the majors.

Yeah, that’d be a sound move. Do you know how Brian McCann is viewed around baseball? Let’s just say, his defense is way more appreciated than it is by some here on this blog who seem to think he’s mediocre defensively (he’s not, he’s very good defensively). He had a couple of passed balls because he was favoring the hand.

Salty’s got a stronger arm than him, but that’s it. McCann has better footwork, better at blocking balls, better overall defense.

You’re talking about a guy who was an All-Star at 22 in his FIRST FULL SEASON in the majors. And one signed to a very club-friendly contract, or at least it should end up being that way….

Navigator, Cox has proven again and again that he can’t develop a young team, huh? Did you just wake up after sleeping through the past couple of seasons, or what? The Braves used 18 rookies two years ago (12 who made their major league debuts) when they won the division and Cox was NL Manager of the Year because of precisely that reason.

My, how quickly some (you) forget. The Braves and Cox are lauded constantly by other teams’ front offices, many of them wanting to emulate the way the Braves work younger players into the lineup, how they turn them over to Cox and quite often he gets better results from them in the majors than they produced in the minors (compare McCann’s stats to his minor league numbers, for instance. Or Kelly’s this year. Or Frenchy’s last year, other than the average.)

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

And Navigator, why do you think the Braves were tied with San Diego and the Yankees as the team that the most players wanted to play for if they couldn’t play for their own (those three teams had 10 percent of the vote in the majors, both leagues combined). Next were Boston (8 percent) and St. Louis (7 percent).

Do you think that’s because of summer weather? Maybe Tooner Town or whatever the hell that thing’s called out in CF?

Make no mistake, it’s because of Cox, at least for the vast majority of those guys who said they wanted to play for the Braves if they couldn’t play for their own team.

By Steve from OH

May 27, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you think that moving McCann to 1B and letting Salty catch may be better for McCann’s durability long-term? I’m sure Thorman would make a decent incentive in a package for a SP.

By Marc

May 27, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

We can still win the division, but there’s real reason to be concerned. Davies can’t get it together, every pitcher in our farm system sucks, and Hudson and James both seem to be struggling lately.

Who cares how our offense or Bullpen does, if the starting rotation can’t doit’s job we can’t win games. I still say Prado is a defensive liability, send him back down and let Orr get more play time.

By N8

May 27, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

I haven’t lost my mind. Not yet anyhow. LOL!

Would you, or would you NOT agree, that we need a #2 and at the very least a #3 starter for our rotation, to compete for the rest of the year?

If you don’t agree with that, you may stop reading and call me crazy. If you DO believe that, then who do you think would give us a better chance of bringing a frontline starter (a young one at that, to be here for a while - not a guy that’s gonna be a gun for hire and leave via free agency after the year - say like Kyle Farnsworth), Salty or McCann???

We can’t trade Andruw. We can’t (and shouldn’t) trade Chipper. Trading Smoltz would be counter productive to “competing” for this season. Trading Hudson might still be an option, but then again, we’d have to get TWO GUYS back in any trade of Hudson, right?

In NO WAY was I saying “trade him” because he’s had a bad couple of weeks (which I think is because he’s still hurt more than he’s leading on - no matter what Carroll says he said), or because I think Salty could “replace” him or his numbers on the roster THIS YEAR. He won’t.

But EVERYBODY and their dog keeps saying how much offense we’ve got, “and when Andruw turns it around….look out”, but no pitching.

Do you really, honestly (I’m not being sarcastic here), think that Salty alone (or with another “prospect”)could get us the pitcher we need to take our rotation where we need to be?

If you think so, then I’ll let it go, and trust your judgement. You’re around JS and Bobby and here rumors that are probably more accurate than what we get on rumors sections of websites.

It just appears to me that McCann might be the most valuble trade asset we’ve got, that’s all.

In a perfect world, I’d say let Salty play 1B everyday and trade Thorman. But: a) I’m guessing Salty aint that good over there or Bobby would be giving him more AB’s against lefties, and b) What is Thorman gonna get us in a trade? Certainly not what we need.

If I had my pick of guys to trade for, based on youth, price and what I’ve seen of them from watching games, it would be Bronson Arroyo, I’d take him over Dontrelle, but that’s just me.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Trade McCann , sheer stupidity defined.

By Ron

May 27, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

What it all comes down to is we need a #3 Starter, and a good Lefty reliver, or we will not make the playoffs, Simple as that!!! Some says our bench sucks,and some are blaming it all on the bench(only a few of you are), but that is not the big problem, obviously Salty is one of our bench players and he strengthens it, and Harris or Diaz strengthens it when the other is playin in the game, Orr is fast and that is why he is on this team, and I have no problem with that!!! Woodward he is versatile that is why he is also on this team!!! What hurts is not having Aybar with us, but he aint here and probably wont be here for the rest of the year!!! Our bench is descent, especially with Salty here now!!! It would not hurt to get a guy like Conine, or Wigginton, or somebody like that, but if it does not happen our bench will be alright!!! If we dont get a #3 Starter or a Lefty reliver, say bye bye to the Playoffs!!!

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Steve, why would you move the All-Star catcher to 1B, instead of the prospect who might be better suited for 1B than McCann anyway, given his height (Salty’s 6-3 or 6-4) and arm (for turning double plays) and athleticism.

McCann is only a year older than him. He was an NL All-Star when he was Salty’s age now (22). Why would you move McCann instead of Salty? Since when does the proven young player change positions for the prospect who’s not quite as good defensively at the catching position? Makes no sense, if you ask me.

There’s a reason the Braves have Salty taking ground balls at 1B and have for two years. You do not see McCann taking ground balls at 1B, because they’re not thinking about moving him.

He’s played major league baseball for less than two seasons, and some of you act like McCann some kind of china doll who needs to be moved in order to preserve his health. Just go through the list of Hall of Fame catchers and look how long they played the position before moving to 1B or wherever. Some of them NEVER moved. Carlton Fisk was catching in his 40s, and yet the Braves are supposed to move McCann, a thick-legged 23-year-old — repeat 23-year-old — built for catching and only catching, in order to preserve his health?

Give me a break. McCann loves catching. He should be able to do it for 10 years before they even consider moving him, and maybe only then if he has serious knee injuries or something.

By SouthJetty

May 27, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

SD-cool place to live NY-big bucks Atl-player friendly manager

None care about winning the WS, except Steinbrenner.

By E. Gonzalez

May 27, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

JS needs to get us a good pitcher to follow Smoltz and Huddie, then we need a 4th and 5th pitcher. I will settle with Byrd and Livan Hernandez. I am tired of seein our bullpen give up a hit to the first batter they faced. McBryde,Moylan, Paronto. McCann is not hitting, Andrew is a disaster and Chipper issick all the time. We need help for JS now or we will be like last year.

By Marc

May 27, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

N8, the Marlins aren’t going to trade Dontrelle, and JS doesn’t like tradining within the division anyway.

Why the hell would we want Arroyo? He’s not horrible, but he’s not exaclty worth losing McCann either, if we lost McCann I would want a stud, not some guy who’s given up 67 hits in 67 IP with a 4+ ERA and 2-5 record.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Salty ain’t going anywhere , period. Brayan Pena hit .217 in Atlanta and is currently hitting .160 in Richmond. Iker Franco is sporting a .204 Average , do you really think the Braves want either of these two backing McCann up ? I think not.

By N8

May 27, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

DOB

“He’s played major league baseball for less than two seasons, and some of you act like McCann some kind of china doll who needs to be moved in order to preserve his health.”

I think it has MORE to do with having his bat in the lineup everyday, than saving his knees for me. I would assume at 1B he wouldn’t need a day off once every 5 days.

About 130 games is the MOST he’s ever gonna play under Bobby’s theory of giving your starting catcher a day off once evertime through the rotation. Which I understand.

But it was the same with Javy. While a great luxury to have a great hitting catcher, it SUCKS when that catcher is arguably your best overall hitter (after Chipper), which one could argue that Javy once was (hit for average, hit for powe, and was clutch), and McCann IS.

30 games a year without McCann in the lineup. Essentially about 30 games a year without Chipper, the last couple of years.

To me it has NOTHING to do with his catching ability, his desire to catch, his right to catch, etc….. If I’m Bobby Cox, I want that stick in the lineup for about 150some games per year.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Salty in a platoon at 1B while backing up McCann makes sense. He pounds lefties(.333) while Thorman struggles against them(.167). Salty would get far more at bats playing 1B and catching behind McCann and he could still pinch hit.

By Steve from OH

May 27, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

N8Agreed. We need a quality starter. HOWEVER, I don’t think we can trade McCann. He’s the face and future of our franchise. I don’t like trading Salty either, he’s got way too much potential. What does that leave, then? Not too much. The only players I can see going are Thor, Pena (for those teams who want a catcher) Escobar or a AA pitcher (Reyes, maybe?). To get a quality starter we may have to give up too much, and I don’t think JS is ready to do that. We might end up being stuck with what we’ve got if nobody wants what we have to offer (unless we do give up Salty).

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

Sorry if I sounded terse with those replies. I know you guys are just interested and trying to come up with ways you think the Braves might make it work with Salty/McCann, etc. Can’t say I blame you, after you’ve gotten a look at Salty. He’s very impressive, the way he carries himself, his approach at the plate, etc. He’s big, strapping dude and probably going to be a hell of a player.

But to me, he’s more likely to be a 1B if he stays with the Braves, because he’s better suited to 1B than McCann, and, like I said, McCann’s an All-Star catcher who’s proven himself and hasn’t done anything to warrant being moved. The Braves love him, which is why they gave McCann an unprecedented long-term contract for a player with such little service time. They didn’t give him that contract with the intention of moving him to 1B in the second year of the deal.

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

Would somebody send Nate some Midol? He’s definitely in hissy-fit mode…

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I have done some catching in my day and I certainly trust your opinion, especially since you see the team almost everyday, but it doesn’t look like b-mac is better defensively. I am not saying b-mac should move or anything…just saying what it looks like from a far.

By journalist jimmy smith

May 27, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

this comment from dob clears up the thumb injury controversy: “that fatty area that’s the pad under the thumb.” so, it is not the opposable thumb after all. no amount of thumb exercises or thumb therapy will help with that fatty area that’s the pad under the thumb. journalist is no doc, but journalist believes doc would say tender is as tender does. journalist might recommend the graston technique but not sure - will leave that up to doc. and thumbalina is no longer an appropriate song for this blog - though other danny kaye favorites will likely come up with dob during the season. and soon it will be memorial day and the cookouts will begin. and dob is in milwaukee with all that cheese.

By Ron

May 27, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

What about Joe Blanton, he is a #3 type pitcher, get him for Escobar, and Devine!!! The A’s need another SS in case Crosby does not stay healthy, because he has not stayed healthy the last few years, and Scutaro is good, but not their Future!!! That is the trade we should go after!!! And Salty is not involved!!!

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

N8, I hear you, but he’s a catcher, man. Johnny Bench was a catcher, and a pretty damn good hitter. He didn’t play every day (though he played a lot).

How ‘bout Ted Simmons? Yogi Berra? Or the great Roy Campanella?

How ‘bout Thurman Munson? Gary Carter?

Jorge Posada’s a pretty fair hitter, don’t you think? Mauer, though I know he might be moved, hasn’t been yet.

Pudge Rodriguez has been a pretty fair hitter for a long time, huh? Mike Piazza was a Hall of Fame-caliber hitter and a below-average defensive catcher, and only now has he finally been moved.

My point, N8, is that he’s hardlly the first, or the 20th, great-hitting catcher to come along. And many others who were arguably better hitters than McCann (at least at this stage of his career) never moved.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

What most fans fail to realize is this. The cumulative loss of Hampton , Aybar and Gonzalez along with the failure of Langerhans and Wilson has severely hampered the pitching and the bench. Not to mention the ability to field a full lineup that can hit lefties more consistently and also having capable back ups at 1B and 3B. The Braves have been hamstrung by the non-contribution of these five players and as of yet have not been able to overcome it.

By meansonny

May 27, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Coach,

I don’t take offense to your stance.

But look at how we have performed in each series and tell me if our struggles go back more than 2 weeks (losing 3 of the past 4 series)

This is a recent phenomenon. Not a season long one.

By Steve from OH

May 27, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

That’s what I think JS needs to look for, Ron. If we keep Salty, like we should, we’re not going to get a stud #2 starter. Period. We’re either going to have to fix our problem from within or go after a decent 3 or 4 guy.

By N8

May 27, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Marc

“Why the hell would we want Arroyo? He’s not horrible, but he’s not exaclty worth losing McCann either, if we lost McCann I would want a stud, not some guy who’s given up 67 hits in 67 IP with a 4+ ERA and 2-5 record.”

First of all, Arroyo is arguably equal to if not better than Hudson has been over the last 3 years. So if you ask “why the hell would we want Arroyo”, you must be asking yourself the same thing about Hudson.

Since 2005:

Arroyo: 78 starts, 512 IP, 3.88 ERA, allowed 4 or more runs 25 times

Hudson: 75 starts, 488 IP, 4.00 ERA, allowed 4 or more runs 31 times

Damn near equal, I’d say.

Second of all, I wasn’t implying to trade McCann for Arroyo. I think a guy like Arroyo could be had for Salty, but I STILL think that Salty is a big price to pay for a #2/#3 guy in the rotation.

I realize that a #1 isn’t gonna be had. But Similar to the LaRoche/Gonzalez trade, which I think netted equal needs for both clubs, injury to Gonzalez asside. But we got Lillebride in the deal, a possible replacement at SS or CF of the future.

So if we trade Salty away, I think at the very least, we need to get a top pitching prospect in return for him as well as a fill in guy, if one person can’t fill both of those requirements.

DOB, may be right about McCann being better than Salty right now, but I’m guessing it two years, if he’s traded and playing catcher for another team, he’ll be spoken in the same breath (as far as hitting) as McCann and Mauer.

Or do I need to remind you all that in 5 years of minor league ball, McCann was a career .275 hitter, NEVER hitting higher than .290 in A-ball in 2003?

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

DOB I think everyone wants Salty catching because of the arm. There are very few catchers in baseball who truly strike fear in the hearts of potential base theives. Off my head I can think of Benito Santiago, Tony Pena, Ivan Rodriguez, I’m sure there are more. The Braves, long as I’ve watched ‘em, have never had one of those guys. Dating myself here but the everyday Braves catchers I’ve seen: Benedict, Ozzie Virgil, Jody Davis, Greg Olson, Javy Lopez, Johnny Estrada, McCann. None of these had that cannon to shut down the running game. It didn’t help that the Big Three in the rotation couldn’t hold runners either.

The interesting thing is that this is probably much less important now. There are no teams like the Cards with Coleman, Ozzie, and McGee stealing 150 bases between them. With the lack of good pitching I guess being able to mollycoddle a fragile pitcher’s psyche is more important.

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Jason, not saying Salty’s not a solid defensive catcher. He is, and getting better every year in that regard. Great arm. But fundamentally, several scouts told me this spring how strong McCann is with his footwork, his quick throws, etc., and that Salty had the better tools but wasn’t polished like McCann.

Listen, they’re both good defensive catchers. Both are worlds better than Javy was at his best. Just saying, McCann is more polished (when healthy) and, more importantly, Salty is the one with the prototypical first baseman’s body, not McCann. I’d hate to see McCann trying to get to balls at 1B where he had to show some range. Salty’s better suited for that, for sure.

By Wayne in Utah

May 27, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Guys: Number one, nobody is offering the kind of pitcher that you say we need. Way too early in the year. Number two, when they are offered, there will be many takers, and it would take someone like Saltalamacchia to get someone decent. Number three: NO WAY do we trade Saltalamacchia! Kid looks like a real keeper, I don’t care what position he ends up in. When we get talent like this, we need to keep it, PERIOD!! And for those that say we will not win without trading to get a #3 starter, I think you are living too much in the short term. The season is a long and winding road, as Paul McCartney once stated. Lots of twists and turns ahead. I personally still think Davies and James will be OK this year. If we can get lucky with Cormier, then we might be onto something. If not, then we wish and hope for Villarreal or McBride to come around or for a 2007 version of 2006’s Chuckie James (Harrison, Reyes, Smith, etc)

So, lets take a chill pill and ride out this storm. Better days are ahead.

One thing I would maybe disagree with DOB about is Escobar, and I would like to add a disclaimer. Disclaimer is: if Escobar will be dealt before the summer is out, then I would agree to not exercise his option. Otherwise, I would rather see him totally screwing up things at 3B when Chipper is being rested or recuperating than Prado or Orr. Also, I think if he is the real deal, he could get enough at bats up on the big club.

I am ok with Woodward for now. Also, I am just waiting for Willie to come back to earth. Let’s enjoy him while he is hot, cause it won’t last.

Whadddyya think?

By The Truth

May 27, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

You could not trade the entire roster for a used extra large jock strap. You have got turds on the right of you and turds on the left of you and the biggest turd wearing the manager’s cap. Cox is at his best when he is getting tossed out of a game. That is just a skill-less piece of crap. But what else would you expect from an Atlanta sports team. Not to mention the people who continue to follow these losers. Pitiful …..

By N8

May 27, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

I totally hear you, DOB. But at least in today’s game, guys like Mauer, Posada and Pudge, can at least DH for their teams. But I hear you.

You know from my posts the last year or so that I’m a BIG McCann guy. Love him. Everything about him. His enthusiasm. The fact that he was a Braves fan. His hitting. The fact that Smoltz and the pitchers love to throw to him. That he has, what I love to refer to a lot, an “approach” at the plate.

But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m a fan of the name on the front of the jersey way more than I am of ANY name on the back.

Even though Smoltz loves throwing to him, maybe Bobby could do what he used to do for Maddux with Smoltz. Have the backup catcher catch him. That way the one day a week when our lineup is weakened, we’ve at least got our best pitcher on the mound to neutralize it a bit.

Certainly Smoltz can about throw to anybody, can’t he?

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

DOB, Remember the other day you were talking about a sweep….really? after these last three games I hope you’ve learned your lesson: Be careful what you wish for.

By mr baseball

May 27, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Atlanta Braves fans are held in extremely low regard in other major league cities, and anyone scrolling through this blog today will easily understand why. No offense, but a lot of you who have posted today have no more clue about baseball than inspector Clouseau. The Braves get swept by the Phillies — immediataly after winning 2 of 3 from the Mets — and it’s the end of the freaking world.

GROW UP, DENIZENS. The Braves got caught without their No. 1 starter and their only lefty starter not pitching against the Phillies, and paid for it. The first game of the series was winnable, but the manager left Hudson in the game too long, which he does too often. The second game was winnable, even with a retread starter, but the Braves couldn’t score against some no-name rookie relievers when the game was still close. They got smoked today. No big deal. With Hamels pitching, this one was done before it started.

Yes, Coach, you’re right. The Braves are on a downward spiral since their great start. It was inevitable. This is not a team that’s going to go 4-2 or 5-2 every week. They’re going to have some spells where they stink, and this is one of them.

N8: Sorry to be ragging on a fellow cynic, but your view of Davies is pretty distorted. Name more than a handful of young major league starters who don’t struggle on a fairly consistent basis. That’s part of the process of developing into a quality pitcher. He’s pitched 2 terrific games against the Mets and had a few other quality starts. He’s never going to be Smoltz, Maddux or Glavine, but he’ll be fine. If you were responsible for handling young pitchers, there wouldn’t be any in the major leagues.

As for the Chipper critics, there’s nothing I can say except YOU ARE A BUNCH OF MORONS. He is clearly in too much pain to swing the bat, but you idiots want him to play anyway. Maybe he should follow Wickman’s example — play hurt, help the team lose and aggravate his injury.

Anyone with a lick of baseball sense (that eliminates a lot of you here) can recognize that this a decent but flawed team. A team capable of winning 90 or so games if things break right, and lately very little has been positive other than the Mets series. Just about every potential contender is going to go through stretches like the one the Braves are mired in now. If you can’t deal with it, there’s always the WWF.

If the team is down to .500 or so in 10 days or so, then it might be time to start worrying. But that point hasn’t arrived yet. Part of being a fan is showing some patience when the team is struggling. Those of you incapable of that, do us a favor and keep your dumb-a$$ comments to yourself. We’ll all be better for it.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

Don’t look now, but not only are the braves not in first in the division but they’re not first in the wild card either……

By N8

May 27, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

Meant to say 3 minor league seasons for McCann, not 5.

By Meanie

May 27, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it, there’s a good debate question. Best catcher’s arm you’ve ever seen? Mine has to be Santiago. Loved to watch that dude gun people out from his knees. Tony Pena would be second. Thoughts from anyone?

By Coach

May 27, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

I think Davies struggles today might just have been added to by the pitch selection he was getting from Salty , which of course is more fuel for the fire to keep McCann catching.

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Wow, over 100 games left and we’re not in first for the wild card fellas. More brilliance from our obsessed friend from the North. I think I’m going to jump off a bridge somewhere….lol.

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

I didn’t “wish” for anything, No Chop Zone. And it had nothing to do with the Phillies series. It was the Mets series, in which they won two of three. So until you can say something relevent, why don’t you just talk to yourself?

Actually, I do wish for something — you to stop being a jerk who exists to provoke folks on this blog with comments like the sophomoric one you just spewed.

“Be careful what you wish for …” Hey, good one. Made no sense whatsoever, but good one.

By ssiscribe

May 27, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Back from a day in the mountains today after a day at Turner Field Saturday. Good weekend to this point, despite the Braves’ results on the field.

Now, everybody calm down. Trade Salty? Move McCann to first? Build an ark? Move to the fallout shelter? Hit Publix for milk, bread and beer? Chill out, folks. Atlanta is 4 1/2 games out and everybody is in a panic, thinking the Braves are about to lose 20 out of 23, like they did last year.

Not going to happen. Back side of the rotation has to stabilize, Chipper has to get healthy, and AJ and McCann have to start hitting. But the world is not coming to an end and the season is not going to hell in a handbasket.

Breathe, everybody (but not too deeply; wildfire smoke, while trying to chase two little ones up the side of a mountain today, wasn’t easy on the old lungs).

Disappointing outing for Kyle, to say the least (didn’t get to follow it; was out of cell phone and radio range up the other side of Helen today). But he’d pitched well three of the past four, so maybe today was one of those days. And, it may sound like an excuse, but the Phils are playing really well right now. They’ve played themselves right back into this thing.

DOB, have a brat for me up in Ol’ Milwaukee. The Scribe has meat to grill tomorrow, and fish to fry tomorrow night.

And to our vets, God Bless you all. Peace.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By Coach

May 27, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

No Chop , your metro boys have all but proven they are the front runners. Our Braves will be spending the rest of the season trying to stay in the wild card hunt. At any rate , we have three games with the Brew crew. They have an identical record and are playing just as bad as the Braves so it will be interesting to see just who comes out on top during this three game set.

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Good call Coach. Another one of McCann’s innate qualities…he calls a heck of a game.

By JasonInMaine

May 27, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Points well taken and I certainly wasn’t saying b-mac is bad defensively. Plus, you can see more by being around the team. Also, the pitchers all love throwing to him, and n my humble opinion; that’s the most important thing…handling the pitching staff and having their confidence.

Regards,

Jason

By David O'Brien

May 27, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

N8, what a coincidence you mentioned that about Smoltz. Before we were so rudely interrupted by what’s-his-name who belongs on a non-Braves blog, I was about to remind you of how Smoltz loved pitching to McCann the very first time McCann caught him, his first week up from Double-A.

And I was going to add that in addition to being solid defensively, McCann has really gotten good at calling games. That, for many pitchers, is the most important thing for a catcher, how he calls the game, how he clicks with the pitcher, whether the pitcher trusts him, etc.

McCann’s really made a lot of progress in that department with guys like Hudson, though, as I said, Smoltz loved him from Day 1.

By Assumed Name

May 27, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

There really isn’t much that can be said that hasn’t already been said about what’s going on with the Braves the last couple of weeks. No matter the reason, they’re stinking right now.

There’s a lot of talk about moving Salty for a #2 starter or even #3. I’m not even sure we are one ONE starter away from being comfortable with the rotation. Davies hasn’t proven in his short career that he can perform with any consistency. Cormier had a great spring but there is no guarantee that it will translate into the regular season. Chuck James has turned into a crapshoot. Hudson may or may not be weakening.

In essence, Salty could be traded for a pitcher who wouldn’t even make a huge difference to the overall picture of whether the Braves finish in or out of the playoffs! In fact, it may be much later in the season before anyone is willing to move any pitching. By that time, the Braves could be lagging behind in a big way.

I don’t think I move Salty, period. I Teach the guy to play first. From what I’ve seen offensively, I move Thorman before I move Salty. Thorman has that big wild swing. I see nothing but good things from Salty’s swing, approach to hitting, and the quality of pitcher he has hit off of so far. And the real kicker for me is he’s a switch hitter.

I would hate to trade Salty for just a chance to get a rent a starter or some guy who is maybe nothing more than a 3rd starter.

I really think Salty is going to be a special guy. The more I watch him play, the more I’m convinced of that.

By Assumed Name

May 27, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Trading Salty could be the offensive version of the Doyle Alexander trade, in reverse, against the Braves.

By The Truth Hurts

May 27, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

The words “trade McCann” should never be mentioned on this blog again. Lord. Sacrifice a potential batting title-ist, 23 year old, relatively inexpensive catcher who the Braves struck gold with for….a shot at one title? I understand the desire to see Salty get more ABs; in fact, I’m all for it. But both should be declared untouchable (Salty at this point, at least). You don’t sacrifice a decade of potential stud play to go get someone from the Reds or A’s. No, no, no. Especially when, as presently constructed, this team should definitely be in the WC chase, if not the division race without a dramatic makeover. McCann may not have the arm that Salty has, but so what? That’s about all that McCann lacks in a comparison (thus far) between the two. Throwing out runners is as much the pitcher’s job as it is the catcher’s anyway. I mean, G. Maddux is one of the all-time worst (maybe THE worst) at holding runners, but it’s not such a big deal when you’re…well…maybe the best pitcher of the 90s. Anyway, caught stealing records are misleading. And until Salty proves he can hit with power consistently…which is my point, we don’t know THAT much about him. Yet. But I’m looking forward to the process.

Frenchy, McCann, Johnson, Salty…these guys are the next generation. You know, the guys you hold onto so that bloggers can complain about them 8 years down the road. When they’re still in the same uniform playing for the good guys.

My central, if circuitous, point is that you don’t sacrifice tomorrow for today. If worse comes to worse and the Braves don’t make the playoffs, which may still be a silly thing to consider even today after another pitching implosion, they’re set up well for the future. You don’t want to be the Yankees (given the resources) or Red Sox (Yankees Lite). They gave up their farm systems for the big name free agents and in trades and, at least as far as the Yankees are concerned, are looking at 5 year rebuilding plans in their minor league system. Especially without the resources of either of those teams, it’s bad business sense to capitulate to the temptation to right the ship for 100 games at the expense of the next 1000.

My two cents, anyway….

By Braveheart

May 27, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

In honor of Memorial Day and No Chop Zone declaring our season over, here goes:

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/taps.mp3

For some reason, whenever I read N8’s posts, I imagine that when he is typing his stuff, Taps is perpetually playing in the background in his house.

By Lew

May 27, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

Wayne-You speak some wisdom. If pitching becomes available and that’s a real big IF, there will be more than a few teams ready to grab them up. The Yankees are probably on the verge of killing for pitching. Boston has had recent health problems in their rotation. Detroit has had injury problems. Even the Mets would grab up a decent pitcher if they could dump Milledge on the other team. Picking up effective pitching just isn’t going to be all that easy when this many teams are looking. Look at what happened in the offseason with the likes of Meche and Lilly. There is a major lack of good pitching in baseball. Even less of it is available. Still less will be available for what we may be willing to pay.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

18-9 when facing right handed pitching. 10-13 when facing left handers , but even more alarming is when we see hard throwing lefties like Hamels , Willis , Oliver Perez , Rich Hill and Scott Olsen we are 2-10 which tells me that the advance scouts have figured out how to beat the Braves and its going to be a long , challenging season that the Braves will have to overcome if they are to have any chance at the wild card.

By meansonny

May 27, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

I recognize the issues with the team. I recognize ALL of the areas we can improve,

But many of you need to act like men.

Someone posted that Andruw hasn’t done anything to help us win. Didn’t he hit a few gamewinning hits 3 weeks ago?

Someone posted that Kyle doesn’t belong on a MLB squad. The Braves are 5-4 when he starts.

HELLO! Drink some decaf and relax.

Someone says that the team is a .500 ballclub since our 7-1 start. Technically, you may be right. But at some point of the season, we were as good as 11 games above .500. And if you look at our last 15 games, you might just recognize that this is a slump.

By N8

May 27, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

Assumed Name

“I would hate to trade Salty for just a chance to get a rent a starter or some guy who is maybe nothing more than a 3rd starter.”

“Trading Salty could be the offensive version of the Doyle Alexander trade, in reverse, against the Braves.”

Totally agree on both points.

By Shaun

May 27, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

My thoughts are the Braves would get more value from trading Salty than moving him to first or, obviously, from keeping him as a backup (not than anyone would suggest that).

It’s relatively easy to find a good-hitting firstbaseman. If Salty goes to first, his value drops tremendously. I do think he will hit enough to be a firstbaseman but the Braves already have Thorman. And he has to hit a lot more as a firstbaseman to be as valuable as he would be as a catcher.

Also, obviously Salty has been a catcher his entire pro career. And it seems like it would be a waste of arm to put him at first.

I’m guessing the Braves could get a solid number-three-type starter or two solid young players for Salty.

I do not think the Braves would trade Salty for a rent-a-player. You know Schuerholz knows Salty is likely to be a valuable player for the next decade, decade-and-a-half. I don’t think there is a chance he would trade him for a player that’s only going to help the Braves for four months.

The only way he would trade Salty for a rent-a-player is if he was pretty positive that player would be the difference between the playoffs and no playoffs or a World Series title and no World Series title.

By N8

May 27, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

“For some reason, whenever I read N8’s posts, I imagine that when he is typing his stuff, Taps is perpetually playing in the background in his house”

Good stuff. Actually one of my favorite movies of all time. LOL!

PS: I get you were talking about the song, not the movie. But I thought I’d play along.

Actually, I prefer to have “Is there anybody listening” by Queensryche off of their Empire album. :-)

By Wayne in Utah

May 27, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Lew: I don’t think of it as wisdom, more just common sense and understanding the law of supply and demand.

Many on the blog think that just because we need/want a #3 starter, that Cincinnati or Colorado or Oakland should be willing to give us one, accepting whatever pittance we are willing to give them. (oh, lets get Blanton for Escobar and Devine!)

Personally, I would love to see Escobar with the big club. I think I could live with his rookie mistakes and see what he has, versus using Orr or Prado in starting roles. Both are AAAA players at best. Just my two cents worth.

Another one that intrigues me is Lillibridge. He was a 4 year college player before signing with the Pirates. I think he might be closer than some think. Many stated in the spring that he “looks” like a player. Sometimes you gotta force feed these guys. He played some OF in college too!

Whaddya think guys???

By Kevin

May 27, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, Is there any new word on who the braves are looking at, if anyone for possible trade deals. I need some cheering up.

By Daybed Wagmoe

May 27, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

DOB, MBATL, Carroll, etc:

when the braves released wilson, i read that the plan for Salty is to use him as the backup catcher/1B. it seems like Bobby has had a few chances to put Salty at 1B and have Mccann catch. why hasn’t this been done yet? i see the reason for having Salty hit against left-handed pitchers, but Thorman has started in one (or a few?) of those games as well.

is Salty not ready to start at 1B yet? i would think that having both Salty and Mccann in the lineup would be great.

By Assumed Name

May 27, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Shaun

The point that you made that the Braves could probably get a solid number 3 starter for Salty actually ends the arguement. You would be satisfied with a number 3 for Salty and I think Salty’s potential is worth much more than a number 3.

I do agree that we could probably get a number 3 for Salty, and that’s why I wouldn’t trade him.

By SteelCav

May 27, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Thorman’s latest struggles suggest Salty should get a start at 1B sometime in the near future…even if it’s just to give Thor a rest.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 27, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

Gee, Coach, if Salty REALLY has “Johnny Bench potential,” why don’t you and Dave want HIM behind the plate instead of McCann? I guess McCann must have “even better than Johnny Bench potential.”

That Paul Lo Duca must call a hell of a game, since the Mets pitching is the best in the league.

By fastasballs

May 27, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

OK, everyone take a deep breath. It’s a long season & only about 1/3 has come & gone. McCann is not going to be traded, that’s insane, to say the least. Salty is either going to play first in Atlanta or he is going to be traded, it’s as simple as that.

The Muts are still within farting distance, despite their ignorant, duche bag fan’s finger wagging.

It’s going to come down to pitching just like any other season the Braves have had. Other than Smoltz & Hudson, who is reliable? Anybody? There is nothing to be had on the trade market, unless the Braves are willing to overpay for mediocrity.

Lance is not going to ride in and save the day. Davies & James are going to have to step up or the Braves are going to step aside.

By Coach

May 27, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

To the moron who does not understand the kings english. Potential : Capable of being but not yet in existence , having possibility. The inherent ability or capacity for growth , development , or coming into being. There you go forrest Gump , you learned something today.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 27, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

DOB you can delete my posts all nite long. It’s your “DIC”-tatorship. But it won’t change the facts. You’re like all many on this blog who crunch numbers just looking for the ones that make them feel good. In the end the only numbers that matter are wins and losses. The Mets have more wins and the braves more losses. Now get back to that b-itch session you call a blog.

By Spike

May 27, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Mike R You’re an idiot. You remind of the guy on the coke commercial”I got a mind like a steel trap”. That crap about you’ve forgotten more basball than we know is probably true. You’ve probably forgotten tons of stuff by now, like your way home. Times have changed, Chipper Jones is our third baseman, he’s hurt and would play if he wasn’t. P&* off. By the way, I’m 60 and remember all the players you do, so don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about.

By Chop Chop

May 27, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

N8, I was just trying to get you to post some more blogs. You don’t post very often. Glad to see you’re active again.

“N8, when I say ‘throw out’, I mean ‘discard’. I don’t mean that you’re quoting ‘em…but do quote those from time to time when they suit you.”

As far as that quote goes, I was just being a smarta*. The fact of the matter is that I think you tend to gloss over so many stats while quoting *only the ones that validate your point. While that is a valuable skill in rhetorical pursuits, it’s not ingratiating you to the denizens. In the case of so many players, the historical averages are the best numbers to rely on. You can make exceptions for young players, old players and injured ones. I just believe that you have to take in all the numbers as a whole, make educated judgments based on what you see and then, by the grace of God, try to determine the best way to save the Braves from the abyss…or something.

Stay classy.

By Wayne in Utah

May 27, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

Rumor is that NO CHOP ZONE has a rubber neck, and can kiss his own A$$.

I love it when Mets fans get overconfident. Yes, the Mets are playing well now. Yes, the Braves seem to have their number so far. Yes, it is a long season, and it is SO sweet when A-Holes get their just rewards. Yes, you are in first. Enjoy, and please go back to where ever it is you came from and leave us alone to ponder all the what ifs. Don’t you guys have your own blog???

Go JAZZ!! (sorry Ron!)

By fastasballs

May 27, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

No Life Zone, If this blog is too “b***” for you, then maybe you should locate a Muts blog. Oh yeah, they all are pathetic therefore you are here.

Way to state the obvious, wins & losses are what matters. Well no chit Sherlock.

You’re a typical Muts fan, finger wagging, blow hard when things are going well, but mute when they are not.

By meansonny

May 27, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

Meanie,

I’d never seen anything like Benito’s arm. And gunning it from the knees.

All the catchers in little league were practising that one.

By Reality

May 27, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

Face it, the Braves were bound to settle into the mediocre team that they have always been. Did you expect anything else from this dysfunctional bunch of losers? Gilligan could do a better job of managing this team.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

Thanks for clearing that up, Coach, because you see, by the time Johnny Bench was 23 years old he had a Rookie of the Year award and a National League Most Valuable Player award under his belt. Salty’s 23, and you’re saying he has “Johnny Bench potential” in one post, then blaming Salty for Davies sucking today in the next. I don’t think Bench’s game-calling was ever questioned, or his footwork, or anything else about his defensive game — see, Johnny Bench is almost universally hailed as the greatest defensive catcher ever. And he was light-years ahead of where your hero stands at 23 years old. In other words, Salty has one hell of a lot of “inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being” to realize before even someone as stupid as you should feel comfortable saying they’re comparable talents.

I love your post that starts, “What most fans fail to realize…” What a pompous a* you are! You typed the dumbest phrase on this blog today, and you’re far too dense and mule-stubborn to even understand how wrong you are, let alone admit it.

And since you’re obviously on the fastrack to senility, you’ll be too far gone to realize you were dead wrong long before it’s proven.

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

Why would anyone delete your eloquent, essential posts, ncz? That’s good stuff. Keep it going. I know it’s hard to maintain that level of quality posts, but you gotta try. We’re waiting.

By Shaun

May 28, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Assumed Name,

I think the very least the Braves should want for Salty is a young number-three-type starter.

Again, I don’t think they should or will trade Salty for a player they will only have for the rest of this season.

But I don’t see any way they keep Salty. I think they get more out of him by trading him. He’s always been a catcher and the Braves already have Thorman. At best he would merely be good-hitting firstbaseman. But he’s likely to be a great-hitting catcher.

By Wayne in Utah

May 28, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

Decisions, decisions…….Continue to read some of these blogs tonight, or watch “Iron Chef” on the food channel. Do I dare try to do both??

Hey everybody, look for the gray-haired 50+ year old and his 15 year old handsome son holding up the “DOB Blogger” sign at the Jazz game tomorrow evening. We will be seated directly above the scorers table, half way up in the upper deck.

Go Jazz

By Shaun

May 28, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

No Chop Zone,

It’s hard to believe but seems like Philly fans are more respectable than Mets fans, at least of the fans that troll around the internet.

I don’t know if I’ve heard a Phillie fan gloat about their sweep, yet they have every right to.

I don’t know if every Met fan is like you, but here’s something that you should realize: most internet-savvy Phillies fans have more class than you. How does that make you feel?

By Braveheart

May 28, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

The Mets are on a pace to win 105 games. Yeah, No Chop, they are so going to maintain that pace.

The Braves are on a pace to win 91 games right despite their current slump.

96 wins will take the division.

We’ll just wait for the Mets to come back to earth.

A lil’ rope a dope is what you are seeing right now, No Chop.

Playing a dope for your entire life, you should already know that.

BTW, No Chop, your tragic number is 118 and counting.

By GiveUpNow

May 28, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

LOST 10 OF 14…..HAHAHAH….YOU GUYS ARE DONE…..TICK TOCK TICK TOCK…..SAW THAT GREAT GAME TODAY……WHAT WAS IT LIKE 20 HITS GIVEN UP…..HAHAHAHA…..WHAT YOU GONNA DO NOW?……NO MONEY, NO GOOD PITCHERS, NO GOOD HITTERS………..NOW YOUR BACK DOWN TO EARTH……WHERES THOSE TWO OUT RBI’S?……WHERE’S CHIPPER, OH HURT AGAIN?….HAHAHAH…..TICK TICK TICK……ITS GETTING CLOSE TO A EMBARRASSING SEASON….HAHAHAH

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

Hey, Shaun, shouldn’t the Braves be asking for a hell of a lot more than a No. 3 starter for The Next Johnny Bench?

By Ron

May 28, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, Come on man what you gonna take that shot at me for dude, about us tradin Escobar and Devine for Blanton!!! I thought we were cool man!!! LOL!!! At least when you said Go JAZZ, you said sorry, Ron!!! That felt a little better!!! LOL!!!

By alan from Atlanta GA.

May 28, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this

Maybe I’m sounding like a broken record.[remember those?] but it seems to me that since McDowell has become pitching coach. It has gone down the toilet. Did Leo do things much differently, there were less injuries and a MUCH better pitching staff.

By Braveheart

May 28, 2007 12:51 AM | Link to this

Name one pitcher on the Braves that McDowell has made a better pitcher?

By Ron

May 28, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this

The Truth Hurts, Your 10:48 post about Frenchy, McCann, Salty, and KJ being our Future is right on!!! We also have very good players in the minors!!! Lets dont forget about Campbell, if he can stay healthy and hit, he will be similar to Frenchy, heard he has 40 homer power, and he is an infielder, he is probably 2 years away though!!! Lillibridge could be good for us. Brandon Jones, maybe, Blanco maybe if they give him a chance. Some Starters in the Minors could be good on this team, we are stacked, there are alot of very good players that I have not named. I dont figure Escobar will be with this team in the coming years, that is why I did not add him to the list, I think he is a very overated player!!!

By ColoradoBravesFan

May 28, 2007 1:10 AM | Link to this

I know some folks keep saying Lillibridge will be good, but he isn’t showing it now. hitting just 276, and leads Mississippi in errors and strikeouts. I guess I expected more from a guy coming out of college.

By Wayne in Utah

May 28, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

Ron OK, OK, if you can get Oakland to jump for Devine and Escobar for Blanton, then you should get a job as one of the home-boy’s right hand men.

DOB I have asked before on this guy, and at the time, he was struggling, but has since put together 4 straight good starts in Mississippi. What is the Braves take on Francisley Bueno? He is 26 years old, a bit smallish (5’11”) and was a Cuban defector, if I remember correctly. I would love to see a guy like that get a start instead of the old retreads like Carlyle (Travis Smith, etc).

Ron, if we can get anybody to give us a #3 or #4 for Escobar, I would throw in any of our young arms except for Harrison or Hanson. I do like Devine though. I think he will be a ML closer in the next 3 years.

By DAD

May 28, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

You Braves fans can forget about the Braves winning the NL East or getting in the playoffs in 2007. All their weaknesses have caught up with them. At present, the Braves only have one starting pitcher that can win. Hudson is returning to the mediocrity that has plagued him the last two seasons. After Smoltz, the Braves don’t have a chance with the current starting pitchers. Chipper Jones is going to continue to get hurt and will play around 100 games this year. Andruh should be traded. He is a liability at the plate. The vaunted bullpen is in shambles with the loss of Gonzalez. Add all this up and then, watch the Braves as they slide to 15 games behind the Mets in the NL East by the All Star break.

By Wayne in Utah

May 28, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

When does Thomas Hanson get his promotion to Myrtle Beach??? That dude is 6’6” and must have a great heater. I would love to see him wind up in Mississippi later this year, if he continues to perform at the High-A level after his stint in Rome.

By Braves Fan 79

May 28, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this

DOB: WHAT DO U THINK ABOUT BRINGING BACK JAVY LOPEZ? we could have him for cheap….and hed be a GREAT bat off the bench. I mean common in the playoffs after the Braves make it as the wildcard who would you perfer to pitchit in a crucial situation?? woodward, prado, orr, or Javy Lopez?? i mean common now its a no brainer. I wish we would of brought back lopez instead of giving wilson that 2 mill contract. I dont even wanna know how much we gave woodwards sorry a$$. No one should be crushed that the Braves wont win as many games as the mets 130 million payroll this year….as long as we get to the playoffs thats all i care about!! And that involves staying ahead of the phillies. Thats the team we should be concerned about….screw the mets….well see them in the NLCS! And with Smoltz giving us basicially 2 maybe 3 guarnteed victories in a 7 game series…..anything is possible!! A diehard fan till the end….all you fairweather fans can root for another team and dont come back when we start dominating again! Anyone that thinks we should trade Chipper or Smoltz is a IDIOT!! Until smoltz and chipper and both gone…the Braves have a LEGIT SHOT at the WORLD SERIES EVERYYEAR!! And all you obsessed with winning the division, next year when we take the mets best starter away from them (Glavine) we can then win the division. As for now all wins are precious…and our biggest rivals are the Phillies, SanDiego, the Dodgers, and Arizona.
Go Braves!

By Braveheart

May 28, 2007 1:41 AM | Link to this

What would you do with Javy whose skills have diminished when you have Bmac, Salty, and Pena?

By TK

May 28, 2007 2:14 AM | Link to this

What about Salty at 3rd??? Prado and Orr can not cover Chipper’s middle of the line up void when he is out. Even more so with another Jones not hitting his weight.

By Braves Fan

May 28, 2007 2:41 AM | Link to this

Bench is so overrated when compared to Mike Piazza as a catcher. Piazza has much better career numbers and he is still playing at the age of thirty-eight. Bench was done at thirty-five.

By PhillyGirl

May 28, 2007 3:02 AM | Link to this

As great as it was for my Phils to gain some ground on you guys, and as much fun as it is to see them playing well (finally), I would still put my $ on you guys to pull out this division.

While I can’t admit it to my folks back in Philly, I am a DOB fan!!

By A-ville Ranger

May 28, 2007 3:13 AM | Link to this

Mr Baseball boy if you’re not the pot calling the kettle black.So we’re rubes and this series was lost because Hudson was left in too long and hitting was the main culprit. Yea you’re a baseball genius alright.Bravesfan Bench once played a season without a passed ball,Piazza was an embarrassment as a catcher on a GOOD day.Now as a hitter,that’s a different assessment altogether.

By Double deuce

May 28, 2007 3:38 AM | Link to this

**Mercy

By Double deuce

May 28, 2007 4:06 AM | Link to this

Man, I wish I had a buck for every time Salty’s name came up in a trade since spring training. Why would you trade the future for maybe a quick fix right now? And why in the heck would anyone even suggest trading Brian McCann? Out of all the things that come up on this blog that is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. First off, who do you trade him for? What’s out there? Pitching is what every team needs, so who’s available that you would be willing to give up a 22 yr.old All Star catcher? If there is someone available worth having there are 28 other teams clamoring to get in line. Funny thing about pitching. How many times have you seen a guy who has been lights out for one team get traded to another only to flounder for a couple of years? Tim Hudson anyone?(and I think Huddy’s great).It’s a crap shoot folks, you just don’t know how its going to work out. The Braves are no different than 90% of the other teams in baseball. They need starting pitching, everyone is worried about their bullpen, and they don’t hit consistently. Well, welcome to baseball in 2007. Do we have holes to fill? You bet, but that doesn’t warrant the doom and gloom forcasted by N8 and Coach. We may very well end up in 3rd place, but it’s way too early for anyone to say for a fact that we’re playing for a wild card berth. Too many things happen in baseball for anyone to be able to forcast in May where we’ll be in October, and anyone trying to convince me that they have found that crystal ball is wasting their time. Blogs are full of people who would like to think they know so much more than the rest of us, and they spend an inordinate amount of time trying to show what they know. In the end, what shows is just how much they don’t know.

By Braveheart

May 28, 2007 4:23 AM | Link to this

Bench is so overrated when compared to Mike Piazza as a catcher. Piazza has much better career numbers and he is still playing at the age of thirty-eight. Bench was done at thirty-five.

Huh?

Most catchers are done by 35, if not sooner - usually 32 years old. Bench never took steroids like Mikey Piazza did.

Bench did not play in an overinflated steroid offensive era like Piazza.

Bench is considered the most balanced catcher of all time - great hitting, great fielding.

Piazza was a horrendous catcher who baserunners could steal at will on - hell, even the Braves would steal on him and the Braves never steal bases.

Bench was a leader on one of the greatest teams of all time.

Bench won a World Series which Piazza never did.

Bench won 2 MVP awards. Piazza never won any.

Bench had a year in 1970 when he hit 45 home runs and had 148 RBIs - in an era where that actually meant something. That was Bench at his absolute best - numbers Piazza could not match at his best even in a steroid inflated offensive era.

Bench went to 13 All Star games in a row. Piazza has been to 12 All Star games. Piazza could only get to 10 in a row because, yep, he hit the wall at 34 years old whether you want to admit that or not.

Bench and Piazza won rookie of the year awards.

Bench was in the top 5 in SLG in the NL 5 times. Piazza was in the top 5 in the NL in SLG 3 times.

Bench was top 10 in OPS 5 times. Piazza was top 10 in OPS 5 times.

Bench was top 5 in runs scored once. Piazza was never in the top 5 in runs scored.

Bench was in the top 10 in runs scored twice. Piazza, only once.

Bench was top 3 in Total Bases 3 times. Piazza, only once.

Bench was top 10 in Total Bases 4 times. Piazza, twice.

Bench led the league in Homers twice. Piazza, never.

Bench was top 4 in Homers 4 times, Piazza twice.

Bench was top 10 in Homers 7 times. Piazza, seven as well.

Bench led the league in RBIs 3 times. Piazza, never.

Bench was top 3 in RBIs 5 times. Piazza, never.

Bench was top 10 in RBIs 7 times. Piazza, 5 times.

Bench was in the top 3 in walks once. Piazza, never.

Bench was in the top 10 in walks twice. Piazza, only once.

Bench led the league in extra base hits twice. Piazza, never.

Bench was top 5 in extra base hits 5 times. Piazza, once.

Bench was top 10 in extra base hits 6 times. Piazza, only once.

And, again, a great defensive catcher while Piazza might be one of the worst defensive catchers the game has ever seen - a glorified DH playing catcher.

Yeah, that Johnny Bench was so freaking overrated, you numbnut.

You also need to understand that before 1994 when steroids were not around, ballplayers all hit the wall and were usually all washed up at 35. That is why it is funny to hear people give ole Chipper a hard time about getting injured - he’s 35, what do you expect? People have just become so spoiled lately with all of these 40 year old wonders who can miraculously do things that were historically without precedent prior to 1994.

Dude, seriously, you sound about 14 freaking years old. You read a stat sheet and you can only compare numbers as they are today but you have no idea how to analyze numbers in a historical context.

Piazza was a great, great hitter but so was Bench. Bench is not overrated at all. He’s just simply the best complete catcher the game has ever seen.

BTW, Piazza was washed up at 34/35 as well. They’ve just been dragging his corpse around from ballpark to ballpark for the last few years.

By Braveheart

May 28, 2007 4:48 AM | Link to this

FURTHERMORE, in 45 postseason games, Johnny Bench had a .862 OPS. In 32 postseason games, Piazza had a .759 OPS.

By Meanie

May 28, 2007 5:50 AM | Link to this

Plus, and I’m purely speculating here, Bench never hung out in the, ahem, “different” night clubs that Piazza hung out in…

By Wilson

May 28, 2007 5:52 AM | Link to this

i think Salty should start taking balls at third base…

By ncscoots

May 28, 2007 7:38 AM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for pointing out that a great arm does not a catcher’s toolkit make. A regular denzine paddling against the Salty man-crush tide would be fleeing for his life, regardless of the number of scouting reports quoted.

I’ve been a Davies defender (sounds like one of those fan groups at Turner), and yesterday was certainly a disappointment. Big stage, chance to prevent a series sweep, up against a tough pitcher, etc., etc., an opportunity to live large and quiet his critics. He apparently is not ready for such a moment. That, however, does not mean he never will be. He still had a pretty good month of May for a 23-year-old, IMO. Braves were 3-2 in his starts, and an error and hanging curveball in Washington away from 4-1. He’s not Smoltz? Agreed. But he’s hardly chopped liver, either.

By Braveheart

May 28, 2007 7:48 AM | Link to this

Plus, and I’m purely speculating here, Bench never hung out in the, ahem, “different” night clubs that Piazza hung out in…

That’s actually not true - Bench has had the same rumors about him.

Carlton Fisk has never had those kinds of rumors - but you have to wonder why a straight man got himself so excited in the 1975 World Series looking at a pole.

By ncscoots

May 28, 2007 7:51 AM | Link to this

…few chances to put Salty at 1B and have Mccann catch. why hasn’t this been done yet?

Maybe because Salty has been taking grounders at 1B, the coaching staff has seen him do so, and they’re not quite up to suicidal yet.

By journalist jimmy smith

May 28, 2007 8:05 AM | Link to this

charles nelson reilly is dead. that’s right, dead. if we see no more posts from sja, bloggers will know for sure that sja and charles nelson reilly are one and the same. now, a picnic tip from the ajc, “Keep hot foods hot (140 degrees or above) and cold foods cold (40 degrees or below). You may need to cook hot foods at home, chill them, and reheat them to 165 degrees at the picnic site.” journalist trusts this post has been helpful to all bloggers who will picnic today. now, information on pirates … dead men tell no tales. also, adam laroche is now returned to clean-up by manager jim tracy. when adam earlier failed to produce at clean-up adam was moved down in the order. hmmm…. well, adam is now batting .205 and has returned to glory. adam’s replacement at first base for the braves (thorman) is batting 41 points higher than adam. another “l” player, ryan langerhans has raised langerhans’ batting average to .160. langerhans’ replacements with the braves are hitting .381 and .349 - harris and diaz. oh, the humanity! journalist has realized something: it is the pitching! again.

By journalist jimmy smith

May 28, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

shiver me timbers. salty is a pirate name. face it. package salty and chipper (possibly another pirate name - sissy pirate) and send them to pittsburgh for laroche and jonah bayliss. no pirate wants a jonah on the ship, so jonah bayliss should be available in trade. meanwhile, atlanta receives a new clean-up batter and a young pitcher who has a 4-2 record on a bad baseball team. and, maybe the pirates will throw in a prospect since the fatty pad below chipper’s thumb seems to be improving. comments on this potential trade are welcome.

By beachside bulldawg

May 28, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this

With Andruw not hitting and Chipper out, the lineup is more like Pittsburg. Who can’t beat them?

By Bill

May 28, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

McCann & Salty will not be traded. It’s just a matter of time before Salty will be on first. I still like the trade of Thorman and a mid level prospect for Zack Greinke of K.C. He’s young with a power arm. He needs a change of scenery.

By tim

May 28, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

first item i love my guys no bashing here. mr cox please stop tinkering with the line up. chipper please get a set and get in the frickin line up. mr cox it might be time to sit aj for a spell until he stops swinging like a little leaguer trying to hit one out every time, your going to get your money with Bor-a* as your agent so relax. can we please package a deal to include any combonation of the following davies,james,prado,maccay,and anyone else on the pitching staff with the obivious exceptions smoltz,hudson,wickman soriano. and get a GOOD utility man and a starting pitcher. PLEASE prado should never i repeat never be in a major league uniform. GO BRAVES

By jch

May 28, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

I know it seems a bit early to be throwing in the towel and start planning for the future but, in my opinion, that’s exactly what we should be doing. Here’s why I feel this way.

Our starting pitching is aweful in the 3-5 spots and there’s no, proven help on the way back from the DL or up from the minors. Barring a couple (not just one) deals for solid starters we can plan on sub-.500 ball from the 3-5 spots and you don’t go to the post-season playing sub-.500 ball 3/5 of the time.

Our relief pitching is pretty bad other than a couple of bright spots - Moylan & Sorianno. Wickman has been OK but not the lights-out guy we saw at the end of last year. He’s pretty much pitching up to his career expectations and is not getting any younger.

Chipper’s been fantastic when he’s on the field but when he’s not, 3B is a liability. I wouldn’t plan on winning to many with Prado at the hot corner.

Andruw’s already gone - and good riddance. He’s obviously off balance and over-swinging at the plate but doesn’t seem to care enough to make adjustments. He’s just hoping for big enough numbers to get a fat free-agent contract.

Other than Renteria, the rest of the squad is “up and coming” - Diaz, Thorman, Johnson, Salty and even Frenchy and McCann still need to prove they can perform year-after-year.

Lady Luck has dealt us some pretty tough injuries this year no doubt but there’s not much you can do about it other than work with what you have left.

Considering the roster as it looks now, including those who may be coming of the DL or up from the minors, I just don’t see us winning the division and certainly not competing for a Penant, much less a World Serious.

With that said, let’s start getting some of these “up and comers” quality experience at the bigs and make any moves we need to to build the team for the next several years - not months.

A few suggestions:

Trade Wickman for starting pitching - Sorianno can more than fill his shoes as closer and the older Wickman gets the less he’s worth on the trading block.

Trade Andruw later in the season to someone in the penant race for some quality prospects - his potential should draw a pretty good price, especially if it’s a heated penant race.

Trade Salty (or McCann) - you can’t justify platooning 2 All-Star caliber catchers, nor can you justify putting Salty at 1B - Thorman’s doing great there at present anyway.

By TommyP

May 28, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

I really think this is something we’re going to see and within the next month:

Thorman moved to LF. Salty moved to 1B.

That would give us a scorching hot Matt Diaz and Willie Harris as very quality backups in the OF for those day games after night games or to rest Salty or Thorman when in a slump.

I think this strengthens the lineup from top to bottom and undoubtedly strengthens the bench.

That leaves Schuerholz to focus on improving the rotation.

We have enough talent in the organization to get a SOLID starter to plug into the 4 spot.

By Lew

May 28, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Why in the world would anyone think that the parts from our team that have done virtually nothing this season are going to bring us anything more than a bag of practice balls in a trade? Why in the world would a team give up it’s only decent starting pitcher for any of our spare parts? When are you all going to realize that the answer in all liklihood, is going to have to come in the form of our own players stepping up and strapping on the leotard? We’re not trading Salty, McCann, Chipper, Andruw, or anyone making more than ML minimum. If they haven’t performed well here, why would anyone else want them-especially for an important part of their team? Useless speculation is one thing, but some of the suggestions I’ve seen in the past couple of days are downright insane and outrageous. There’s opportunity here and someone just must step up and take advantage of the situation.

By Salty's Dog

May 28, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

Maybe because Salty has been taking grounders at 1B, the coaching staff has seen him do so, and they’re not quite up to suicidal yet.

I don’t know, Bobby was suicidal enough to start Redman a bunch of times.

By Meanie

May 28, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

Looks like the morons are out today! Trading Andruw’s a great idea, don’t know why the hell nobody’s mentioned it yet. And Tim, he of limited literacy, wants to trade all our scrub pitchers for a Cy Young candidate. Fabulous!

By jch

May 28, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Double Deuce - Good argument for keeping both McCann and Salty except one minor detail - what do you do with 2 All Star Caliber 22/23 year old catchers on your roster?

Platoon - that would be nuts

Salty as back-up - that’d last until his contract’s up and Boras get’s a hold of him

Salty at 1B - He’s less than un-proven at the posistion and no guarantees he can handle it, so you risk screwing up the next couple of years for a great talent with an experiment

I understand your arguement and hate to give up either of them but, if we do as you say, we have 2 All Star caliber 22/23 year old catchers on our staff - and you can only use one at a time.

By chipdip

May 28, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

JOHNNY BENCH IS THE GREATEST CATCHER EVER TO PLAY THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HANDS DOWN……MIKE PIAZZA COULDN’T EVEN WEAR BENCH’S JOCK STRAP………………UP THE IRONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MOTORHEAD RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

JCH, sorry but I stopped reading after your first paragraph. Because the Braves obviously are not going to “throw in the towel” and plan for the future, whether you or anyone else thinks they should or not. Next….

By Fred from CT

May 28, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Some people on this team just need to step up and perform. Aj mccann thorman davies james and the dreaded fifth starter spot. chipper needs to be back in the lineup. just have to get back to winning series again. starts today with a strugling brewers team. I will go on record and say AJ has a big road trip.

By KC

May 28, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

That sweep was awfully costly. we lost 3 games in the standings to the Mets, the Phillies are only 2 games behind us now, and we’ve even fallen out of the Wild Card lead.

Ouch.

TommyP: It’s awfully hard to bench the Diaz/Harris platoon. That platoon is only hitting .361.

As long as Harris is getting on base, that’s a guy you want to have in the lineup as much as possibly with his speed.

And Matt Diaz is not only hitting for a great average, but he’s showing a little more pop. If you projected Diaz’s numbers this year to 550 AB’s, you’d have the following:

.349, 21 homers, 58 RBI. Not too bad for a guy who hits 8th in the lineup, huh?

As long as this platoon remains anywhere near this productive, they won’t be benched. And Bobby’s preference would be to keep Thorman at 1B, where he’s been better than advertised, rather than in LF, where he’s not going to win any gold gloves.

By Jack

May 28, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

PITCHERS CANT PITCH HITTERS CANT HIT COX CANT MANAGE COACHES CANT COACH

LETS FACE IT THE WHEELS HAVE RUN OFF AND THE POWERS THAT BE ARE TO STUBORN TO ADMIT THAT THEY MADE SOME BAD CALLS

ANOTHER SEASON OF LOSING IS HERE———FIX IT OR GET OFF THE POT

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Double deuce, I’m with you on those who even suggested trading McCann. Just mind-boggling, how quickly some here come to conclusions and jump ship. Of course the Braves are not and would not consider trading McCann for a long time, so it’s not worth continuing to beat our brains trying to explain why it won’t happen. But I hear you, it leaves you shaking your head and wondering what people are thinking. 23-year-old all-start catcher signs six-year contract extension in spring, it’s heralded universally by braves fans and baseball insiders as the best move they could make, and two months later some Braves fans are suggesting he should be traded. Unbelievable.

Seriously. Unbelievable.

By Assumed Name

May 28, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

The Braves are ducks.

There are no trades out there that will suddenly make them Swans.

The Dontrelle rumors are beginning early this year, with every contending team supposedly considering courting the Marlins. IF Dontrelle is indeed moved, it won’t be until July. The same could be said for any pitching that would be considered an upgrade from the Davies-James-Redman-Carlyle-LaRew solutions. I’m not in any way suggesting a Willis trade, I only used him as the example or “poster boy” of the pitcher who seems to always be on the block and would be an upgrade to our 3-5 starter situation.

Virtually all of the so called experts agree that it’s too early for any team to be moving impact players. The only players who may be moved this early are the Langerhans’ or fringe guys.

Even though the Braves are ducks, it doesn’t mean they can’t find a way to compete. The trick is to find that help within the organization, some how, some way.

Where does the help come from? I don’t have a clue.

I think it’s safe to say that this team is going to sink or swim with the cards they’re holding right now. They either pick it up and are in the hunt in July at which time they can consider making a move if needed……Or

They will already be out of it which makes a move a moot point.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

May 28, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Gloom…Despair…Misery on me… LOL

Get real folks, still a long way to go here. Just going thru a rough patch right now.

By KC

May 28, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

The notion that the Braves should throw in the towel is ridiculous. Right now, I don’t think the Braves are going to win the division, and that’s something I said before this series with the Phils.

However, if they can get a couple things fixed quickly, they’ll definitely have a shot at it, and they’ll have a great shot at the Wild Card.

The Braves need a quality starter in the worst way. If there’s a good, young, affordable starter that the Braves could hang onto beyond this year… Salty won’t be here much longer. I hate to say that, cuz I’m a big Salty believer, but I just believe that’s the situation. And in truth, we probably should trade Salty for the right starter. The RIGHT starter. He’s way too impressive a prospect to give up just to get another warm body in the rotation. We need a good, young, top-of-rotation caliber starter in return for Salty if we’re going to part with him… and I don’t think they would part with him for anything less. But if we can get the arm we need, that will probably help this team more than Salty could any time in the near future.

But… you don’t suppose… I mean surely they wouldn’t… ya – you don’t think they’d trade McCann and keep Salty?? Naaaah. Very unlikely. But not as unthinkable as that notion would have seemed a month ago.

As for Mike Gonzalez… the bullpen will be fine so long as Soriano and Wickman remain healthy. I’m not too worried about the supporting cast in the bullpen. They’ll come around. Well… okay, there are 2 guys I’m not so sure about: Chad Paronto and Macay McBride. But I think everyone else will be fine. Tyler Yates is streaky, and I think guys like Peter Moylan will be fine.

Even if a couple of our middle relievers do continue to struggle, we’ve got Phil Stockman and Blaine Boyer at Richmond. Tanyon Sturtze should begin throwing again soon as well, I do believe.

We will need to get another lefty for the pen. But other than that… things will be fine down there. Again, just so long as Soriano and Wickman are healthy.

So the Braves shopping list reads like this…

Wanted: A top-of-rotation starter, and a good situational lefty reliever. Emphasis on the starter.

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

jack, “another season of losing here.”

I take it you mean, following the Falcons and Hawks. Because the Braves have had one losing season in 15 years.

You did mean the Falcons and Hawks, right? OK, good.

Fix it or get off the pot? What does that mean? If they can’t get a starter, get off the pot. How so? Forfeit the rest of the games? Give you your ticket money back? What exactly does get off the pot mean, in this instance? Just curious.

By Andy Is Dandy

May 28, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

I’m really glad Andruw is coming around. That one run a game he saves us was evident yesterday. He also homered!

Lets see, if he doesn’t rob the homerun and hit the homer, it’s 14-5 game instead of 13-6!

By ssiscribe

May 28, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Good morning and Happy Memorial Day, everybody. Indeed, CR, hug a veteran, or at least explain to your kids what today is for and what it means.

Of course, we have the freedom to express our opinions in this nation, and the freedom to point out opinions we disagree with, like some of the ones on this blog.

There is no other way to describe the talk of shopping McCann, so I’ll be blunt: If you honestly think the Atlanta Braves should trade Brian McCann, you don’t know the game of baseball and you have no clue what you are talking about.

You have a 23-year-old All-Star catcher who calls a great game, has the respect of his teammates and people throughout baseball, is locked up for the next six years at a bargain price compared to what he would’ve cost as a free agent, and you want to trade him to give a very, very, very promising future star who’s had ONE full season at Double-A (and a rough one at that), and three weeks of decent at-bats off the bench and in spot starts at the major league level the chance to play every day, something he hasn’t done yet in the big leagues?

Come on.

Salty is going to be a star, folks, I believe, but he’s 6-foot-4 with a long body. He’s perfect for first base, which is why I believe in two years you’ll see Salty at first, KJ in left, and some combo of Escobar, Andres, Lillibridge and/or Prado at short and second (and maybe third, too, but we’ll debate Chipper’s longevity another day).

Regardless, you’ll see McCann behind the plate. Only a devastating injury moves that guy to first base, and nothing is going to move him out of Atlanta. So, enough already.

You can debate the back side of the rotation. You can debate signing Andruw. You can debate Bobby and how he will be regarded by history. You can debate the Man in Black vs. Elvis (the singer, not the shortstop) vs. Dylan vs. whoever else. You can debate The Varsity vs. The Vortex vs. Manuel’s Tavern vs. Smith’s Old Bar.

But there is no debating McCann’s future with the Braves. Beyond Francoeur and the rest, McCann is the cornerstone of the franchise. So enough already. He’s not going anywhere.

End of discussion.

—30—

By Fred from CT

May 28, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

DOB any word on rheal cormier veteren lefty that could help in the bullpen. I know he is down in triple AAA any chance he gets called up to help out from the left side in the bullpen.

By Savannah Guy

May 28, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Lots of ‘strategery’: Gents, the well intentioned discussions here today about moving parts around and trading average or slumping players for an ace pitcher are all well and good. But you can play that chess game all day (week, year) and you will not see results. That’s fantasy baseball. But dream as you will. Not that some of you guys don’t have some great and well founded ideas that I enjoy…to a point, (and a few whacko suggestions…Javy Lopez? Trade Wickman? Kidding, right?).

Trouble is, unless your solutions don’t fix pitching, it’s all just academic. Only those moves will make a difference.

If it was so easy, everybody would do it:Just a simple fix gets the Braves to the playoffs: add two quality pitchers, an ace for the 3 spot and a proven 10+ game winner in the 4 spot. We can plug one of our current young guns into the 5th slot. Hey, I didn’t say it was going to be easy, but if JS could pull it off we could actually see consistent series wins. Bravos can currently score enough runs to win more than our share if pitching holds teams to 4 runs.

My auction block: Lose the underachievers Paronto, McBride and Davies…they have more upside potential for their next team/pitching coach, therefore they have more value in a trade.

Chess ‘n such: As far as fielders go, you can talk about trading Prado for Cy Young and Orr and Woodward for Christy Mathewison, but it won’t happen and it won’t help. The value is not there. I have believed for several years that we should trade AJ (the Android) but right now, his value is probably half what it should/could be. When and if he gets on a roll later towards playoff setup time, dump him for his perceived value. Just hope the other teams don’t recognize that his attitude, his swing, his weight and his age make him a castle made of sand. Ok, I’m beating a dead horse…sorry.

Now or never: Trouble is, if we don’t get at least one other ace in the 3 spot in the next few weeks, all of this playoff chess we’re playing will be academic. We’ll be too far behind to catch the 2 or three teams ahead of us in our own division and even the wild card.

Gut check time: Liberty, let’s see what you are made of. Ok, now I’m dreaming too.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Salty and Harrison for Dontrelle???

I actually think I would keep Salty.

Next years lineup:

2B Johnson SS Renteria 3B Jones RF Francouer C McCann 1B Saltalamacchia CF Cameron LF Thorman/Diaz

Starters:

Smoltz Hudson ????????- Starter wanted. Can we get a good one without dealing Salty? James Davies/Cormier/Harrison/Reyes

Pen:

Closer- Soriano Set Up- Yates Rest- Devine, Moylan, Mcbride, Boyer, Villareal

AHH SO DIFFICULT TO TRADE SALTY!!!!!

Keep him for his pop. Try to sign a starter…… Maybe a Freddy Garcia type. Although that probably wouldn’t help.

As for this year, just have to keep going with what we have until late July, then determine what we need. No one is going to trade us a “young affordable starter” in early June. It isn’t going to happen……

By N8

May 28, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

*Assumed Name

Totally with you on your last post.

Teams aren’t gonna start trading off players until they KNOW they are out of it. And similar to last year, it’s gonna be too late for us, if we can’t fix it internally.

I don’t believe there is going to be a “Fred McGriff” to be had in July, that’s suddenly gonna allow us to make up 10 games in the standings, whether shooting for the Wild Card or the NL East.

June is soon upon us, and suddenly we are faced with what we were faced with last year. If we “survive” June by remaining relatively close in the playoff race, a trade in July would most definitely help, perhaps no trade would be neccessary, if a young player (Blanco, Jones, Escobar, Lerew, Harrison, Boyer), steps to the front in the minors to help us make a run.

But if our June is mediocre or worse, I’m afraid any trade we make will be too little too late, similar to the Wickman deal.

Of course a trade could be made (similar to Wickman), with the 2008 in mind as well. As teams are more likely to part with a decent player at the deadline, than in the winter.

Only time will tell……

By KC

May 28, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

May is not a good month for the Braves these days. We all know what happened in May last year, and this May hasn’t been very kind either…

• Wickman misses half the month with back trouble.

• Gonzo goes on the DL and we later learn he’s lost for the season.

• A couple of our more reliable middle relievers have begun to struggle of late.

• After reestablishing dominance, Tim Hudson has strung together 2 lousy starts.

• Chuck James continues to struggle and tax the bullpen.

• Last night we learned that Davies has not turned the corner we all hoped he had.

• Lerew struggles, and then hits the DL.

• Buddy Carlisle struggled in his first start.

• Chipper has to sit out for some crucial games against division rivals.

• Andruw has hit .174 with 2 homers in May.

• Jeff Francouer cooled off. He hit .306 with 5 homers and 25 RBI in April. He’s hit .268 with 2 homers and 12 RBI in May so far (and the month’s almost over).

• Brian McCann (presumably spending much of the month getting over that finger injury) has given this offense nothing. He’s hit .262 with 1 homer and 9 RBI in May. It really hurts to get so little from such a brilliant hitter.

• Thorman has hit .218 in May, after hitting .288 in April.

• Kelly Johnson has hit .229 with 1 homer, after hitting .326 with 5 homers and 15 RBI in April.

But there has been some good news:

• Salty’s shown he’s ready for prime time.

• Redman was cut!!!

• Willie Harris has been brilliant.

• So has Matt Diaz

• Edgar Renteria has been a stud.

• Wickman returned to fill the late inning void left by Gonzo.

• Oscar Villarreal has quietly put together a string of 6 scoreless outings (pitching 8 innings over that stretch) in which he’s allowed only 1 hit.

THE OUTLOOK:

This offense has nowhere to go but up. Chipper will be back in the lineup soon. And Andruw, Frenchy, McCann, Thorman, and KJ are all going to hit much better than they have of late.

The bullpen will be fine. We’re still in good shape at the end of the game, and our slumping middle relief will come around. We’ve also got reinforcements at Richmond (Phil Stockman, Blaine Boyer, and I think Joey Devine is already in Atlanta right now).

Tim Hudson will also come around.

So the problem remains the same one we’ve had all season… the rotation after Smoltz and Hudson. Cormier should be back soon. That’s good news. But we need another top-of-rotation starter if we’re going to seriously compete for this division.

By Gayle Abbott

May 28, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Like almost all the other teams, the Braves are desperate for a starter. The best chance to get one was last year when they could have traded Andruw. The occasional spectacular grab and occasional home run has not enhanced his value to a team that might have a pitcher to trade. I hope the team will be honest with their fans and pull the trigger on a trade while they can still get some value in return. Sad to see him go, but the reality is that someone is going to pay Andruw $15mil/year - it sure as heck is not going to be Liberty Media!

By jch

May 28, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

DOB

I think you’ve take my comments a bit too literally. Although, after re-reading it, I can understand how you would.

I don’t think the Braves will throw in the towel.

I don’t think the Braves should throw in the towel.

Had you read the rest of my post you would have seen my (at least intended) point is the Braves do not have the talent to truly compete for a Penant or World Series on their roster, DL or in the minors.

The Braves need to make some changes and I believe they need to be changes positive for the next several years, not months.

In making these changes we need to take into consideration our current talent level and our chances of challenging for a title this year. Which, in my opinion, are very, very dim.

What I’d hate to see is we trade Salty for someone in the last year of their contract in hopes they can somehow save the season. That guy doesn’t exist.

If the front office does decide to make some changes I hope they don’t squander some of your young talent in short-sighted deals in hopes of salvaging this season.

By Lew

May 28, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Does anyone bother to check stats before making these trade suggestions? Has anyone even noticed that over the past three years that Dontrelle has gone from a 2.63 ERA in 05, to a 3.87ERA last year, to a 4.80ERA so far this year? Has anyone bothered to notice that Dontrelle has pitched 69 innings this year, given up 77 hits and 30BB while only striking out 52 batters? Has anyone noticed that in 05 Dontrelle gave up 11HR, in 06 he gave up 21HR and so far this season has given up 9HR, which puts him on pace to surrender 30HR’s for yet another seasonal increase? Meanwhile, back at the Ted, James has a 4.13ERA in 52IP giving up 59 hits and 22BB? You tell me where Dontrelle fits into the mix. We’re going to give up Salty to a divisional rival for a pitcher,who despite his reputation (now looking somewhat undeserved), who is no better than our number 3 starter, who most here believe is a number 5 starter? As SJA would say-Unbelieveable.

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

I am watching smoltz’s 200th W again…

Let’s start a freakin’ winning streak today!!!

By Steve from OH

May 28, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Why would we trade Harrison and Salty? They’re the future of our franchise. What we need is a decent #3. That’s it. We can probably get one without giving up Salty. Nor should we bring up Harrison or Dan Smith this year. They’re young and need seasoning. With young pitchers, it is important to instill confidence in them by seasoning them in the minors. Not too many guys can lose 19 games like Bonderman did and come back to be a strong, consistent starter.

By KC

May 28, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

I personally think the Marlins should trade Dontrelle Willis. I’m sure they got some great offers for him in the past, and I’m sure they will again this year. The Braves might be among those great offers.

While Dontrelle is a fine starter, and I’d like to see him in a Braves uniform… I don’t think he’s proven himself to be an “ace”. At least not yet. But the offers coming in for him are probably what you’d expect to get in return for a legitimate ace. So I think the Marlins would be smart to deal him. If there do consider parting with him, I do think the Braves should pursue him. How much should they give up? I have no idea. I’m sure they won’t do anything silly though.

Rich Harden is another guy who’s name has come up. His stats look great, except for one very important category… “games”. He pitched in only 22 games in 2005, 9 games last year, and he’s only pitched in 3 games this year. We certainly wouldn’t want to trade Salty for the second coming of Kerry Wood or Mark Prior.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

KC

So the problem remains the same one we’ve had all season… the rotation after Smoltz and Hudson. Cormier should be back soon. That’s good news. But we need another top-of-rotation starter if we’re going to seriously compete for this division.

Who????

And give me a reason why the team would trade him to us in early June.

In the past you have named guys like Aaron Cook and Bronson Arroyo.

Why would Colorado and Cincy do that?

Please explain.

By KC

May 28, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Lew, Dontrelle is a a streaky pitcher. He’ll most likely come around, and will put up solid numbers. But I agree that he’s overrated.

By KC

May 28, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Actually, Dontrelly might already be coming around. He’s been pretty good over his last 3 starts, giving up a total of 18 hits and 7 earned runs in 19-1/3 innings.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Dontrelle is overrated.

Harden gets hurt too much. Love the arm.

If the White Sox fall out of it I think we could get Buerhle, but you can’t deal Salty to get him.

Maybe Escobar. But again, if we don’t resign him, what is the point?

Would the Blue Jays deal Burnett???

3 years and 33 million left on the contract after this year.

I’m looking around the league.

It is amazing how little starting pitching there really is…..

By KC

May 28, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Efrim: I said we badly need a quality starter, but I never said it would be easy to get one. Cook and Arroyo came to mind because they are 2 quality, affordable starters that are signed for multiple seasons, and they play for teams that aren’t in any races and aren’t likely to see post-season baseball anytime soon. You’re obviously not going to get a pitcher from a contender so teams like that are your only hope.

But no matter who you’re talking to, it’s going to be tough. The Braves are just the latest in a long line of contending teams in recent years who wanted/needed a quality starter mid-season. It’s rare that you’re actually able to land one. Quality starters are the hardest thing in baseball to come by.

Would Cincy or Colorado part with an Arroyo or an Aaron cook? Well… anyone is tradable. It’s just a question of how much you have to give up to get him. Obviously, if a team is not really amiable to the idea of parting with a player, they’re going to ask for a silly package in return. If Cinci or Colorado were willing to talk about a reasonable deal for either pitcher, we’d still probably have to give up salty, plus a good young arm. If we can, I would. But again… it’ll be tough to get the starter we need. We’ve done it before (Neagle), but it’s tough to find without sacrificing half your farm system.

By KC

May 28, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Efrim: “Why would Colorado and Cincy do that?”

To answer this question directly… I don’t know that they would. But IF they would, it would be for the same reason any losing team trades away a quality players… to get more young talent and build for the future.

Again, either team (if they’re open to it at all) would probably want Salty, plus a good young arm or two. Awfully costly.

By Savannah Guy

May 28, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Chuck James vs Chris Capuano. Which guy will show up?You can flip a coin on this one. Is there even a line on this match in Las Vegas? (not that I would even bet your money on it).

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

I don’t think we will find that starter we need.

We have to pray our offense gets going and we get more from Davies and James. Cormier will help. I hope. I pray.

If he doesn’t, then this team won’t win the division.

I don’t trade Salty. Period. I think he is our first baseman next year. The guy reminds me of Mark Texiera in a lot of ways. Maybe not going to be as good defensively at first, but as far as the bat, he looks like a annual .900 OPS type of hitter.

By the way,

If Brandon Jones isn’t a CF, deal that guy at the deadline.

We can move Thorman to left field this off season.

Or deal Thorman at the deadline. Move Salty to 1st base and give Diaz regular playing time. Next year platoon Diaz and Bradon Jones.

BY THE WAY:

Elvis Andrus is hitting .229 with a 650 OPS. I can safely say he will be out of the Baseball America top 100 for next year. The guy also has 13 errors.

By Jim

May 28, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Kyle Davies best starts have come against the Mets; his worst starts, by far, have come against the Phillies. I remember a similar first inning against them last year. It may not have worked any better given the way the rest of the inning played out, but I thought they should have walked Howard and pitched to the right handed hitter with 2 outs in the first.

The Braves have 4 “core” players for the next 5-6 years — KJ, Francouer, McCann, and Salty. We need to get Salty a new position and build around this core, not trade from it!!!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

May 28, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves have to make a decision quickly about whether they want to play for the postseason this year or think about next year. Here is what I mean. The Braves, unlike most other teams, have the necessary pieces right now to make a trade for another starting pitcher. Salty, Escobar, Prado, and Brandon Jones are all solid trading pieces. I think the Angels would consider moving Santana for Salty and I know the A’s would consider moving Rich Harden. I even think at this point the Dodgers would be willing to trade for Escobar and give up one of their pitchers.

As it currently stands, the Braves rotation is just to inconsistent. Chuck James is experiencing the sophmore jinx and one night he is one while the next he is off. Davies will have two good starts in a row and follow them with two horrific starts. They need another guy. The bullpen is fine. They are just getting overused because of the horrible starting pitching. If this team wants to stay in contention, JS is going to have to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on a trade. He has to!

Also, DOB, how is Andruw’s God awful season going to affect his free agency. If this crap continues I can’t imagine anybody in their right mind giving him $20 mil a year nor I could I see him seriously asking for it.

By Mitchie-san

May 28, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

I like what I have seen from Salty, but I think calling him an “All-Star Caliber” player is not just premature, its kinda dumb. Let be patient before we start comparing him to Bench.

By Lew

May 28, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

KC-How does streaky explain an annual jump of one run per game in ERA and an increasing number of HR’s given up for three successive years? It’s not like he’s been great and is slumping. This is a three year trend. Even with his performance over the past several games, his numbers are still inferior to Chuck James, who everyone b!tches about. Not only that, but his salary is well in excess of a couple million dollars and escalating annually. No way Dontrelle is worth anything the Marlins are likely to ask for.

By Jim

May 28, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Lew, I made the same point about Dontrelle Willis and the same comparison with Chuck James a few days ago. Any trade being mentioned here of Salty (or McCann) for a starting pitcher looks like Brett Butler (and Brook Jacoby) for Len Barker all over again.

By KC

May 28, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

I know I’ll be criticized for this, but…

if we wind up keeping Salty, I would strongly consider moving McCann to 1B next year.

Please understand, this is not my way of ranking Salty above McCann. Not at all!

Here are my reasons for saying this:

1 - Brian McCann is one of the best young hitters in the game. I truly believe that. And while it’s wonderful to have that much offense behind the plate, it’s also kind of scary.

Look what’s happened since he hurt his finger. I know he originally hurt it on a bunt attempt, but it was almost healed before he got hit with a back-swing behind the plate. And remember what happened to Johnny Estrada back there?

I just wonder if McCann is too good a hitter to have playing the most physically demanding and risky position on the field. Also, he’s going to get a day or 2 off every week.

I think McCann is the second best hitter on this team (when healthy), and I think we could better keep him healthy and in the lineup if he were playing 1B instead of catching full time.

2 – Putting Salty at 1B would be a waste of that cannon-arm he’s got.

3 – Replacing Thorman (a lefty-hitter) with Salty (a switch-hitter) in this lineup (which is essentially what we’d be doing if McCann moved to 1B) would make us less vulnerable to left-handed pitching. It seems like we really susceptible to lefties right now.

If Thorman turns out to be a big league thumper, then he’ll have some trade value this winter.

By Coach

May 28, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

To all my brothers in arms(and sisters) , here is to remembering those of us who didn’t come home. The real heroes who gave the ultimate sacrifice , God bless you all and God bless America.

By Lew

May 28, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Jim-I don’t know that I’d compare Dontrelle to Len Barker (that is Barker when the Braves got him), but your point is well taken, anyway. Everyone (the Marlins included) seems to think Dontrelle is a number 1, but he’s pitching like a number 4 and trending downward for a long period of time. At the money he’s making and the cost to acquire him, he’s just not worth it. I also don’t understand the fascination with Haren, who seemingly is damn near more injured than Hampton-we certainly don’t need that. We have enough arms in the minors, that there has to be SOMEONE who can strap on that leotard and be all he can be. As far as whoever said that Brandon Jones should be traded because he’s not a center fielder-HUH? We will need him. Willie Harris and Matt Diaz can hardly be considered a long term fix and Andruw’s leaving. Francoeur can move to center. Efrim-Just when you finally started talking sense for the first time in God knows when, you turn around and bring up Burnett. $33 mil for the next three years? To quote the inimitable John McEnroe “You can’t be serious.” $11 mil a year and we’re griping about salary? Dude, you need to think before you talk.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

How about we ask the Braves pitchers and coaches who they’d prefer behind the plate?

Saltalamacchia is not even A MONTH removed from Double-A ball. Get a grip, folks.

What happened to Johnny Estrada? Well, he’s having a pretty good year with Milwaukee.

By KC

May 28, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Lew: Look, I’m not trying to be a Dontrelle Willis apologist here. I’ve been saying he’s overrated for a while now. But…

We’re only 1/3 of the way through the season. You’ll have to wait to the end of the season to start talking about his ERA climbing each year. I just checked… Dontrelle Willis’ ERA at the end of May, 2006 was 4.93, and he finished the season with a very good (by today’s standards) 3.87 ERA.

So you’re going to have to hold off on your “annual jump of one run per game in ERA” arguments. And while he gave up 21 homers last year (up from 11 HR’s in 2005), he allowed 20 in 2004, so it’s not like we were seeing something new from him. And, by the way, giving up 20-21 homers really isn’t all that bad. Smoltzy gave up 23 last year. Now, the 9 homeruns he’s given up this year is high for this point in the season, but again, we’ll have to wait a while longer before we can judge his season, since most of it is still ahead of us.

Willis’ ERAs over the last 3 seasons:

2004 – 4.02

2005 – 2.63

2006 – 3.87

Personally, I think he overachieved a bit in 05. I think he’s the kind of pitcher you look toward to give you an ERA in the high-3’s. That’s not to say that he isn’t capable of posting another sub-3.00 ERA at some point in his career. But I really don’t think he’s a legitimate ace.

By KC

May 28, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Strictly from a defensive standpoint (glove and arm), I think Salty is a better catcher than McCann. But calling a good game is a huge part of catching, and I have no idea how Salty measures up to McCann in that dept.

By Ron

May 28, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Lew, I agree 100% with your 11:33 post!!! I would never trade Salty for Willis. I would only trade Salty for a guy that I knew would be a great pitcher, and Willis is certainly not that!!! Maybe Stark should have put Willis in the Top 10 Overated!!! Instead he put Andruw’s defense in the top 10!!!

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

KC

McCann just doesn’t look like a 1st baseman.

Salty is a Texiera clone. Or at least he looks like it. Still SOOOO EARLY to make predictions.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070528&contentid=1990561&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

Nice post by Bowman on MLB.com.

I agree with him on Andruw. He is still going to get that contract.

On the first year player draft….

NO MORE HIGH SCHOOL PITCHERS!!!!

College pitchers and high school position players.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

If Salty was a better catcher than McCann, then he’d be the No. 1 catcher. Do you think the Braves believed a better catcher was waiting in the wings when they signed McCann to a long-term deal? It’s pretty obvious who the better catcher is.

By KC

May 28, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Yeah, I agree with you there. Salty definitely looks like more of a first-baseman. And there’s really no telling if Salty’s really ready to produce significant numbers yet. He’s still new to pitchers. We’ll have to wait and see. There’s no rush with anything.

I have to believe that a big part of the reason he’s still in Atlanta is to showcase him. He’d be the centerpiece of any deal for a starter.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

NO CHIPPER AGAIN????

Damn man. We need this guy. Thats the problem with this team. Our best player is only going to play 130 games. Its tough to win the division when your best hitter doesn’t play in like 30 games……

By KC

May 28, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

We Have Mets the Enemy:

There are 3 facets to a catcher’s game… His offense, his defense, and his ability to call a game and work with a pitching staff.

When you factor those 3 things together, McCann is the best all-around catcher in the league… perhaps in either league (when healthy).

But from what I’ve seen, I think Salty is a better defensive catcher. McCann is probably better at calling a game and working with pitchers, and Salty has a looooooong way to go to put himself on the same plane offensively as Brian McCann.

I don’t think Salty is a better all-around catcher, but I do think he’s got a slightly better glove and a much better arm.

We’ll have to wait and see with Salty. If we’re going to keep him, I’d like to see him get more time at 1B and more at-bats. I certainly wouldn’t even consider moving McCann to 1B unless I was absolutely sure that Salty would be a stud in every facet of his game. We can’t be sure of that yet. He just got here. Still a lot to prove.

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

Yes, CHIPPER SCRATCHED AGAIN. Talked to him before BP, told me it was better and he was playing.

Then he stopped halfway through his BP, told Pendleton it was hurting too much. And that’s that.

If it goes on much longer, say the series, I’m sure they’ll consider DL’ing him retroactively, because by then it would only be another week, actually a little less.

By KC

May 28, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Efrim: All the more reason why having our second best hitter, McCann, in such a risky, volatile position makes me nervous.

Not saying we should move McCann to first next year… but in large part to protect the presence of his bat in the lineup… I think it has to be considered. IF in fact Salty still appears to be a stud come next spring, and that’s assuming of course that he’s even still with the Braves then.

By MBATL

May 28, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

KC, I agree. First, I wouldn’t trade Salty this year, unless someone like Haren was offered - and that’s not likely.

If Salty can prove competent at 1B, we’re in a great situation for this year. Let him play for Thorman against most lefties, and spell McCann pretty often (since there’s not too much offensive dropoff, we could afford to keep Brian well rested). That would get him plenty of AB’s.

Then decide in the offseason who moves where, or who gets traded. (and if Salty keeps hitting, and can play 2 positions, we’d get a king’s ransom in the offseason if we decided to trade him, though of course I’d rather find a way to keep him).

By journalist jimmy smith

May 28, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

there is a remedy for soreness in “that fatty area that’s the pad under the thumb”. ungentine. yes, ungentine. this is a ugandan paste that comes in a tube … and it could do wonders with topical application. someone would need to instruct chipper on the proper use of ungentine - because handing chipper a tube of ungentine with no instructions could lead to disastrous results. and it must be kept away from gonzales as well who might sustain injury applying ungentine as a pomade. and now, why are there so many injuries to braves players? why? are these not well-conditioned athletes? are they not pampered? why so many injuries? and whither the cheese merchants of milwaukee on memorial day? and will dob participate in today’s sausage race?

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Well, KC, I’ll not bother to comment on the Salty/McCann 1B situation anymore, since you and others obviously think you know more about the team’s plans than I do. That’s cool. You’re certainly entitled to an opinion. I’m telling you they’re not even considering moving McCann, however. They’re thinking of playing Salty at 1B, considered it today as a matter of fact.

I’ll say once more: McCann’s a catcher. A catcher or an American League DH. He’s not a first baseman. If anyone moves to 1B, it’s going to be Salty, I’m fairly certain of that. One was an NL All-Star catcher at 22 who hit .333 with 24 homers.

They’re not moving him to a position he’s never played, never worked out at, and doesn’t want to play. They’re not telling him to go learn a new position so they can find a spot for their top prospect, who is a lesser defensive catcher overall (again, despite what some of you say; you can’t see game-calling on TV).

They didn’t sign McCann to a six-year contract so they could move him to a position he’s never played and doesn’t want to play. He’s not moving. Deal with it, or not. No big deal. You can keep saying “we should do this” or “we should do that” all you want, but they’re not talking about doing it.

Some here are, but the Braves aren’t. Sorry, they just aren’t.

By Ron Roberts

May 28, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

KC… good thoughts. I wouldn’t mind trading Thorman if he brought us something valuable in return, as the LaRoche trade was supposed to (though I wasn’t, from day one wild about that trade, anyhow). But for these knee-jerk blog-hards to think that we should bench or ship Thorman elsewhere and sling Saltalamaccia to 1B right away when he’s barely out of AA ball - it’s just silly.

I thank God, everyday, that this organization is run by rational people who don’t react (or overreact, as many do here) so crazily.

Kelly Johnson’s defense at 2B has been astounding, to say the least. His having played short, I think, had a good bit to do with that, and Hubbard’s off-season mentoring did, as well, I’m sure. But to ask that lightning strike twice with a move of either career catcher to 1B, I think, is asking alot. If I were to lean one way or the other, though, I’d prefer Saltalamaccia only because Smoltz and Hudson, in particular, have a repoire with McCann, and they and Cox and McDowell all rave about his game-calling acumen.

As for this season, while I’m not crazy about a Willis for Saltalamaccia trade, I do think Dontrelle would be, bar-none, the best #3 rotation pitcher in the game, and would, thus give us the best 1-2-3 tandem, overall, as well. Imagine that in a best-of-seven series and I think we’d be a tough team to get past.

I also think we have to remember… we’re in it to win it this season, too, and for those that don’t want to sacrifice a little bit of future to win now, may I remind you that if, by chance, we do ship Saltamaccia off to get a bonafide top-tier rotation guy (which I still don’t think is likely given the flooded market of buyers out there), we’d still be left with long-range future guys like Francoeur, Kelly Johnson, Martin Prado, Scott Thorman (who’s surpassed most of our expectations, I’d bet) the stable of arms in Richmond and Mississippi, OF Gregor Blanco, and SS Yunel Escobar, just as a short-list.

I’m fine w/what’s left in the up-and-coming stable if it means we unload a Saltalamaccia for a “can’t miss” arm that wins us a World Series this year, too.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

KC, Saltalamacchia has caught in a grand total of EIGHT Major League games so far, and ALREADY you can tell he’s better defensively than McCann? Your talents are wasted here on this blog — you should be out scouting!

Since you’re so convinced he’s the man behind the plate for the Braves, let’s pull the trigger and trade McCann — I guarantee you’ll get a whole hell of a lot more for him than for Saltalamacchia.

By flbravesgirl

May 28, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

DOB, scribe & others who came to McCann’s defense… thank you! I can’t believe anyone would even consider trading him. The Braves made it known who they intend their everyday catcher to be when they signed him to that contract. Salty shows great potential but it’s still just potential at this point. Certainly too soon to call him “All-Star caliber”.

Happy Memorial Day to all & thank you to our service-men & -women and veterans. Let’s start a winning streak today, boys!

By Bobbys' no Boobie

May 28, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Gotta love Bobby. Just listening to him on the pregame show. He said “we actually played pretty darn good this weekend.”

I bet with him and Ned Yost together in the same park this week, the fans will think they have mistakenly attended an Anthony Robbins seminar!

By joebrave

May 28, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

All you Idiots,and I mean all Idiots,Mccann will not be traded!!!!!! Salty most likely will NOT be traded…

The only way you see dontrelle Willis in Braves uni,is E.Andrus,M.Harrison,K.Kaahiue,and Jo jo Reyes,thats abouth the way that would play out,but IT SINT GONNA HAPPEN I have no damn Idea who all these $hit for brains are but get a grip…. Salty is going to be our future at first Bank On it!!! maybe A.J. walks maybe Zambrano is on the radar,who knows but these idiotic posts are annoying!!!

Give up ,Dude I’d like to give you an antifreeze I.V. you are the most aggravating sumbitch I have ever seen!!!!!!11

By We have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

KC — Sorry, I didn’t see your more reasonable post before I posted last. I still think it’s crazy to consider moving McCann, and Salty’s being way overhyped, but at least you’ve come down from the wild “Johnny Bench potential” man-crush level Coach is on.

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Oh, and by the way, I just now asked a Braves official, who’s sitting near an AL team scout I also asked, if I was wrong about my perception that McCann is viewed as the better catcher, if maybe Salty had caught up with him:

“No, McCann is better,” one of them said (I can’t tell you which, but the other concurred when I ran it by him. “They do understand McCann’s playing hurt, right? He’s got a hurt finger, they understand that, right?”

(He said this shaking his head, because he couldnt’ believe it when I told him some have suggested trading McCann or moving him to 1B).

He was referring to you folks. I told him that I didn’t know why I spent as much time as I have trying to convince the bloggers that McCann is not moving, that he’s better defensively, that the Braves have not discussed moving him to preserve him or for any other reason.

By the way, regarding injuries. I’ve seen two first basemen I knew very well get hurt far worse playing first base than any catchers I’ve known have been hurt behind the plate: Cliff Floyd had a career-threatening injury in which several small bones were broken or shattered, along with ligaments and tendons, in his write in a tag play at 1B, and Derrek Lee was hurt on the similar type of play in a collision with Furcal, a broken wrist that cost him half of last season. He broke two bones.

When’s the last time you saw a catcher have an injury like that?

By Shaun

May 28, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Any chance they would try to move Salty to the outfield or give him some work at thirdbase? There’s probably no chance they would do anything like that this season but what about during the offseason? I guess it all depends on positions Salty played in high school, etc.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

KC, DOB just took you to the woodshed. Ouch!

By KC

May 28, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

We Have Mets the Enemy:

Dude, chill with the hyperboyle. I already said I think McCann is the best all-around catcher in the league… possibly in all of baseball. No one’s suggesting we trade McCann. Well… I maybe some people are, I don’t know. But I’m sure as hell not.

I love McCann behind the plate. McCann is not a bad defensive catcher at all, and he calls a great game. Everyone who pitches to him raves about him. All I said was that Salty appears to be “slightly” better at gloving the ball, and he has a much better arm. Now, you are correct that he’s only played in 8 major league games, so I may be wrong about him having a slightly better glove. BUT I am NOT wrong about his arm.

In Salty’s first major league game, I had the privilege of sitting right behind the owners box (a long way from my usual seats), and I really got to see the plane of the baseball from ground level as he unloaded to 2nd. I hadn’t heard a single thing about his arm before then, but just during the warm-up throws down to 2nd, I was immediately impressed.

It’s a pretty good distance from home plate to 2B, and usually when a catcher throws down there, there’s a little arc on the plane of the baseball. The very first time I saw him throw down to second on a warm-up, I immediately turned to GRINCH and said “Damn that was straight!”.

I truly believe that Salty has as good an arm as any catcher in the game right now. Not only is he strong, but accurate as well. That is most of what I’m basing it on when I say I believe Salty to be a little better defensive catcher the McCann. As I said, I could be wrong about the glove part… we’ll see. But there’s not denying that arm.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

DOB

Ask that same scout what he thinks of Salty?

Keep him or trade him?

The trade obviously being for a quality starting pitcher….

By mr baseball

May 28, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Coach: Hope you’re happy. Cox had his .350 hitting LF bunt with one on and no outs in the 1st. Great strategy, take the bat out of the hands of the player with the highest batting average on the team and kill any hopes of a big inning. Trying to win games when a team is struggling is a difficult chore. Trying to win games when you’re struggling and the manager doesn’t have a clue how to make the best use of his talent makes things even more difficult. At least we have Smoltz to look forward to tomorrow.

By A-ville Ranger

May 28, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Man that’s a mouth full of stats on Bench and Piazza, good stuff. I’ll add something subjective,when Bench went to the mound his leadership was unmistakable, he was the man in everyway.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, not to defend the arguments of the “Move McCann” faction, but I think their point is first base is a much less physically demanding position where mcCann could play every day. Lou Gehrig played 2,130 consecutive games as a first baseman and Steve Garvey had a streak of 1,207 games there. No question a regular first baseman will have more plate appearances per season than a catcher will.

That being said, I’ll reiterate it would be insane to move McCann.

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Over/under on chuck going more than 5? Already throwing a lot of pitches…

By KC

May 28, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

DOB: It’d be interesting to runs some actual numbers on games missed by position due to injury. If 1B (statitically) really isn’t any safer a position than catcher… then moving McCann doesn’t make a lot less sense.

As for McCann’s glove, I’m certainly willing to accept that I’m wrong about McCann vs. Salty defensively. If the scouts say McCann’s still the better glove… that’s good enough for me. The arm is the only thing I know for certain about Salty.

My reason for suggesting the possibility of a McCann to 1B move was based more on the desire to see his bat in the lineup everyday more than anything else. When McCann’s really healthy and has it going at the plate, I think he’s as good a hitter as we have on this team. Yes, even as good as Chipper.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

How about Joe Blanton???

That team is going to be out of it in like 3 weeks.

Kyle Davies, Bradon Jones and Yunel Escobar for Joe Blanton????

Amazing. Those are like 2 of our, I dunno top 8 best prospects, and that is what it would take to get Blanton.

That is the market for starting pitching…..

By Stuart

May 28, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Every position has risks involoved, and injuries have really hurt the braves so far this year. However, the point is the braves HAVE to get both Salty and McCann in the lineup together, period. If not, then the braves need to sell one of them high and get an elite(ish) SP or an elite(ish) OF. The braves never play Orr, so why not send him down to Richmond and bring Pena up and let Salty have a shot at 1B, (In that senario Bobby even gets to have his security blanket catcher.) Salty is too good (or at least swinging too good of a bat right now)to be sitting.

By KC

May 28, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Well… no matter what, it’s a meaningless topic, because there is no notion in the Braves dugout of moving McCann to 1B. I was never of the impression that there was. Just thought it made interesting food for thought.

Right now, I’d like to see Salty get some more AB’s at 1B against lefties in addition to his backup catcher duties. Let’s see just how good this kid is. Can’t hurt his value to show that he’s capable of playing another position either.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

KC, check DOB’s 2:02 before you post further. He’s making fun of you with Braves front office types and professional scouts. That’s gotta smart!

By KC

May 28, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine:

Great question. I’ll go out on a limb and predict 6-1/3 innings from Chucky.

By Stuart

May 28, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Fine, salty may be getting too much hype, but if that is the case, then strike while the iron is hot. Marquis, Betemit are two names that we waited on too long to do anything and they lost their value. Either play salty or trade him, one or the other please.

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Why didn’t they play Salty at 1B? Regardless of other debates going on, I think we all agree that it isn’t going to help his potential not playing…

By Woodward Caught Looking

May 28, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Gee what a neat blog! I like this. Now I have a place to share my faith in the Braves.

I like nodding in agreement. It’s much better when we avoid tough questions or observations. It’s really not my place to think about what the Braves could or should do. It’s my job to be a Braves fan and follow blindly.

Lets leave all the decision making and speculation up to the professionals, which we aren’t. All we need do to support our team is to buy tickets, concessions and souvenirs.

If we go 100 and 62 or 62 and 100, we just need to keep our heads up and smile.

Just remember, do not make any suggestions. It only causes problems. Besides, why would you want to make a suggestion that will only cause you embarrassment and shame? There are experts here who have little tolerance for thinking outside the box. After all, baseball is a game of logic and matchups. You know the lefty-righty thingie. If you suggest something that defies logic, their circuits seem to short.

It’s not a pretty thing.

Go Braves!

By Swing and a Miss

May 28, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Maybe if Chipper had rested his injury instead of aggravating it every day with BP, he’d be back by now. At his age, it’s probably prudent to put him on the DL for most every injury he suffers. He deosn’t exactly bounce back anymore.

By Stuart

May 28, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Chuck must not have the nad to throw inside. The brewers are hanging out over the plate. Chuck needs to at least throw one in every once and awhile to keep hitters honest. The reason he gets tagged later in the game batters are hanging out over the plate and hitters know where to look for the ball.

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Or how about sending him back to Mississippi or Richmond and let him play first base every day rather than just take pregame ground balls, then ride the pine?

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

0-2 TO WEEKS!!!!

THROW HIM JUNK!!!!!

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

KC,

I hope you are correct! Big pitch there by Chuckie!!!

By Stuart

May 28, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Today would have been a great day for Salty to get a shot at 1B. CJ is a fly ball pitcher and Capuano is a crafty lefty. I dont think it would have hurt anything to try something different.

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Seems like we’ve got more folks and a better discussion going than I anticipated on the holiday, so I’ll try to do a quick new blog.

And no, I wasn’t making fun of anyone. KC, he’s just agitating. I ran that by those guys because you’re not alone, several bloggers have been suggesting same thing. And frankly, I wanted to make sure it wasn’t ME who was off base on this one, that my perception of McCann/Salty wasn’t different than the thoughts within the organization and among the scouts following the team. That’s all.

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

KC,

I hope you are correct! Big pitch there by Chuckie!!!

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

41 pitches through 2 innings

I don’t really know what to say about the guy.

At best, a 4th starter.

He doesn’t have a third pitch. That slider sucks.

By Jason Stark

May 28, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

WINNING is overrated.

By Kathy

May 28, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Some of the comments on here come from very fairweather fans, and I just have to laugh. 1. Chipper plays 110% when he’s on the field, and for him NOT to be playing tells me he feels he’d be hurting the team being out there. 2. The Andruw Jones hating has got to stop! Yes, he’s struggling. But this is a kid who has gotten a lot of big hits over the years for us, not to mention his stellar defense. 3. I wish I could concoct a magic potion for Kyle Davies. It pains me to see him consistently struggling. 4. STOP pushing the panic button. Even though Gonzalez is gone for a long time, this Braves team is FAR better than last year’s team - have faith, GO BRAVES!

By A-ville Ranger

May 28, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Another thing on the longevity of players today vs when Bench played.I have no doubt steriods play a roll. I believe arthroscopy is often overlooked and under appreciated however.I had surgery last month that just seven years ago would have had me cut wide open over six to eight inches.Using scopes I had four small holes and was up and about in hours.I remember Bench on the tonight show displaying his scars.The shoulder had what must have been an eight inch rip,and his knee maybe six inches.This required sliceing healthy muscle, connective tissue, etc.These procedures left massive scarring as well as damaged nerves etc.Koufax suffered for years from a elbow that swelled to the size of an orange.Today a simple cleaning out may well have left him as good as new.

By Jason Stark

May 28, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Third starters are overrated.

By Jason Stark

May 28, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Being able to score a couple of runs when you finally have a starter who isn’t behind 4-0 after 3 innings is overrated.

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Nothing like facing the braves to get a struggling pitcher to look like Walter Johnson…

By KC

May 28, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

DOB and We Have Mets: For the record… I never said “Move McCann to 1st!” I very plainly said on more than one occasion that I was not yet convinced it would be the right move to put McCann at 1B next year.

Again, I just thought there was some interesting food for thought there… mostly based on my respect for McCann as a hitter, and my desire to see him healthy and in the lineup every day.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

HOME RUN TO RIGHT FOR ANDRUW!!!!!

DOB

COULD THIS BE A SIGN????

By A-ville Ranger

May 28, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with Andruw ? His right knee must have been 18” off the ground after that swing.And right field! what’s that about ?

By MEB

May 28, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Hey… we could win this game with only one hit! Andruw went Vlad on that ball and the Braves won’t get skunked today.

By Jason Stark

May 28, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Signs are overrated.

By Stuart

May 28, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

People with intellegent posts on this blog are VERY Overrated

By Stuart

May 28, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Not to change the subject, but I think Chip Caray absolutely LOVES that the Cubs suck. BTW, I am heading to the Sunday game in Chi town and hopefully if ebay works for me the Clemens start the following Monday vs. the white sox.

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Andruw hit that after I hit submit…wow, when he starts using RF…he could be coming around!!!

By Jason Stark

May 28, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Kevin Mench’s big head is overrated.

By Efrim

May 28, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I would rather take 7 innings 2 Earned runs over 5 and a third 0 earned runs.

This guy kills the pen.

By A-ville Ranger

May 28, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Kathy fair enough on the fickle-fan thing’ee.I’ll say plainly, whether fair or not. The fate of this team rides on pitchers 2,3,and four.We have to get a high percentage of quality starts from these guys or they’ll be watching the playoffs like the rest of us.

By Ron

May 28, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I have said trade for Blanton also, but I said trade Escobar, and Devine for Blanton!!! And if it took more I would include Larew or another solid prospect, but not Brandon Jones or Davies!!! I still think Davies can be a valuable Pitcher for us in the coming years!!!

By We Have Mets the Enemy

May 28, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

The only sign I see is Andruw’s still swinging at pitches over his head. No way even a pull hitter pulls that pitch.

It was a freak home run. I’ll need much more convincing.

Besides, Shaun’s real upset to see Andruw going to right. And Shaun’s always right. Right?

By SteelCav

May 28, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Wow, Thorman’s swing has more holes than swiss cheese. Too bad, I really like him otherwise.

By Mike R

May 28, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

What is going to happen when Chipper gets a real injury? Has he simply lost his desire to play or is his pain tolerance that low? Will someone please answer this question; would Ripken have played with this “injury.” I agree that Chipper used to be a gamer and went 8 years without any DL time but he has lost that drive in his 30’s. Hopefully he will leave some $ on the table and retire at the end of this season. We can use the money to sign Anruw. He has struggled but he is man enough to play with injuries.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 28, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

“Through these fields of destruction…Baptism of fire…I witnessed your suffering…As the battles raged higher…And though it did hurt me…In the fear and alarm…You did not desert me…My brothers in arms”

Dire Straights…

TheSouthernJackAss would like to join in the observance of Memorial Day with all those who lost loved ones in the defence of our country…

Also TheJackAss is pleased to say that he is hosting several of his good friends, who are proud members of the Warrior Brotherhood Veterans Motorcycle Club, along with a number of the Patriot Guard Riders, at his farm this afternoon…and will be joining them on a ride through the scenic countryside after our cook out and other outdoor activities have concluded…

By Stuart

May 28, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

I cannot speak for anybody else on here, but I am not a fair weather fan. I am fan that is disappointed in how our team is playing right now. I thought the bravos were going to be great, no I think we are going to be in a wild card dog fight. Believe me I want them to win more than most anything in the world. I am very frustrated in what I am seeing.

By SteelCav

May 28, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Mike R - with all due respect, I think Chipper has earned the right to make a decision whether or not he can play effectively. That fleshy part of the hand is very important to a hitter’s swing. If he’s not feeling it, better to rest him now in May than for him to aggravate it and have him swing at 75% the rest of the season.

By journalist jimmy smith

May 28, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

nope, not charles nelson o’reilly.

By Jason Stark

May 28, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Turning a clean double play is overrated.

By David O'Brien

May 28, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Chuck’s already tied his career-high with eight K’s.

SteelCav, you’re right about Thorman’s swing. Got some big holes….

NEW BLOG IS UP. Go light that thing up, please.

Later

By A-ville Ranger

May 28, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Anybody notice all of KJ’s bobbles happen at the same spot on the field ? what’s that about ?

By JasonInMaine

May 28, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Good call by b-mac on that last pitch!!!

By Ron

May 28, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

I still remember a few weeks ago how some on this blog wanted us to trade Salty for Bush, or Capuano of the Brewers!!! Yeah good job guys you are right on with that trade, we win the world series after making that trade!!! LOL!!!! I would not wont to trade Salty for no one on the Brewers mainly because damn they would have Salty, Weeks, Fielder, Hardy, Brauer(their young 3rd Baseman), Hall, Tony Gwynn, and who cares who else they got, they would trade Estrada for a good player!!! That would be a team that Atlanta would have to get past to get to the World Series in the Future!!! Yeah good job whoever said make that trade, give them a guy that could be a very good catcher with the rest of that young team!!! The reason I mentioned it now is mainly because some get to see how young and talented this team is and will become!!! The Braves snuck up on teams in 1991, the Brewers are the team in the Future that teams will have to go through to get to the World Series, not saying they will make the World Series this year, but if they get to the playoffs this year, would be great for a young team!!!

By REHYDRATION ENGINEER

May 28, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

“JASON STARK” is over-rated

By NS from Kennesaw

May 28, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

I think Mr.Cox gave K.Davies more than enough chance to prove - but Davies continues to show that he is inconsistent.

Perhaps Liberty can help get some good starting pitching - one way to do that without paying too much is trade A. Jones and K. Davies

By Eric C.

May 28, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Chop Zone…you are the one who needs be careful of what you wish for. It so happens the Phillies could catch up with the Mets…will you enjoy the Phillies sweep of the Braves when they out-race the Mets by 1 game???

By Jason Stark

May 28, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

This for the fans of this blog. A quote from ex Pirates Manager Danny Murtaugh

“Why certainly I’d like to have that fellow who hits a home run every time at bat, who strikes out every opposing batter when he’s pitching, who throws strikes to any base or the plate when he’s playing outfield and who’s always thinking about two innings ahead just what he’ll do to baffle the other team. Any manager would want a guy like that playing for him. The only trouble is to get him to put down his cup of beer and come down out of the stands and do those things.”

Quotes are overrated

By berigan

May 28, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Robert(JITB), I don’t think the Angels would trade for Salty right now. Mike Napoli has set some weird record, (Something about getting a hit and scoring a run in 10 straight games) and he is only 25. They are also in first place. Man, we feel like we get the shaft from ESPN, they swept the Yankees, have a 6 game lead on Oakland, and except for Vlad, no one on the team gets mentioned.

You mentioned Ervin Santana as the guy to get from them. I thought he was having a decent season, he is not. 3-6 with a 6.00 ERA!!!

By Ron Roberts

May 28, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

DOB… epic stuff, today, man… EPIC!

I love seein’ the rational, and well-in-the-know beat writer smackin’ some sense into the froth-mouthed blog-a-maniacs.

I’ve been sayin’ that kinda stuff all along. Some folks here would toss a player in the trash over a bad day, week or month and forget that it’s a 162-game, 5 1/2 month season.

Thank God the Braves’ brass doesn’t take this stuff seriously.

By P'Cola Michael

June 1, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

No. 9. Brian McCann, C, Braves, Age 23 (40) This is one special kid. PECOTA thinks that McCann is going to be a consistent .300 BA, 25 HR guy year after year. Since 1950 there are just eight catchers who have had more than one season in which they posted a .300-plus batting average and 25-plus home runs. Seven of those guys — Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, Roy Campanella, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Ivan Rodriguez and Mike Piazza — are inner-circle Hall of Famers. The other is Joe Torre, who should get his plaque in Cooperstown soon enough. As an added plus, McCann is a quiet, humble kid on a team full of big egos; even his recent finger injury came when he was trying to lay down a bunt.