Braves

By Ricardo

May 21, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

DOB -

Good timing on this post. It’s a long season and this is one of those times when a team is in a bit of a lull. They weren’t as good as they started the season and they aren’t as bad as they’ve played the last 2 weeks either. As for Andruw I agree that he is due to break out of it, but I’m not sure if he will. He looks soooo lost out there, trying to wrap the head of the bat around all those outside pitches and pull them rather than take what he’s given. It’s gotten to the point that when he’s at the plate, I’ll switch to something else so that my kids don’t hear any new swear words to teach their friends at school.

By will

May 21, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

I used to be one of Andruw’s biggest fans but I’m growing tired of his falling down, off balance, way too open swings. No wonder his back hurts. How many men has he left on base this year? I can’t find that stat but he’s got to be leading the league. I say let his big mouth agent take him off our hands. I’d much rather see Willy Harris and Matt Diaz. At least they look and play like the care about the game.

By Gary

May 21, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Good blog Dave. I think it is safe to say Scott Boras is going to have a hard time trying to get Andruw that big contract. I love the kid, but the fact that he is starting to show some wear is going to make those teams who want to bid for him think really hard. Still though I (and i may be overly optimistic) think the guy will come around in June and have a Furcal-like second half. You know the one where you realize over the all-star break that you are going to be a free agent and could get a big contract if you step it up. Furcal did in 2005 and look what it got him. As for the pitching the 3-4-5 guys need to step it up. James has been decent but inconsistent. I think he come around. Davies i think can still use a half a season in AAA to get confidence back and Lerew, well i knew something was ackward about his delivery and now i see him on the DL with a forearm injury. If James develops some consistency and Davies steps up who knows what this team can do. Those guys need to step up because it is too early for a trade. Smoltz and Hudson are studs and will be vying for the starting all-star nod and the Cy Young. Dave tell Bobby that I love the idea of Francoeur hitting 4th. Look what that kid did this weekend with him batting either 4th or 5th. Unbelievable and it also helps Chipper out too. Anyway I will be at the game tomorrow night to see the Braves pound that overachieving Jorge Sosa back to the real world.

By daniel

May 21, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

DOB…while I’d normally agree with you on the Jorge Sosa thing, he’s pitching against Kyle Davies. To be honest, I don’t know which Davies to expect. He’s pitching against a very tough lineup. I just hope this thing doesn’t turn into a slug-fest tomorrow night, because they might just get the better of us.

By Dave

May 21, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

The Braves went 4-6 on this past road trip.

Had Hudson made the pitch to get Varitek in the first inning yesterday, and had Kelly Johnson NOT made the error in game #3 of the Nats series (or Davies NOT hung a curve ball to allow a three-run double), the Braves would probably have gone 6-4.

It’s still early, gang!

Still, I hope the Braves can pull off a trade to get another established starting pitcher. I do not think the Braves can rely on Cormier being their savior.

Just my humble opinion!

By Jersey Gil

May 21, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

DOB…i post this coment in the prior blog…I agree Druw look real bad yesterday…to me he look clueless what is coming…his mind is not on Baseball…it posible he has personal problem and no one knew…he has a family and young kids..On TV look like TP don’t talk to him like other.I know they have prior coment that he don’t want TP help. I saw Andruw in the past going to a slump , but not like that.

By Gary

May 21, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Good blog Dave. I think it is safe to say Scott Boras is going to have a hard time trying to get Andruw that big contract. I love the kid, but the fact that he is starting to show some wear is going to make those teams who want to bid for him think really hard. Still though I (and i may be overly optimistic) think the guy will come around in June and have a Furcal-like second half. You know the one where you realize over the all-star break that you are going to be a free agent and could get a big contract if you step it up. Furcal did in 2005 and look what it got him. As for the pitching the 3-4-5 guys need to step it up. James has been decent but inconsistent. I think he come around. Davies i think can still use a half a season in AAA to get confidence back and Lerew, well i knew something was ackward about his delivery and now i see him on the DL with a forearm injury. If James develops some consistency and Davies steps up who knows what this team can do. Those guys need to step up because it is too early for a trade. Smoltz and Hudson are studs and will be vying for the starting all-star nod and the Cy Young. Dave tell Bobby that I love the idea of Francoeur hitting 4th. Look what that kid did this weekend with him batting either 4th or 5th. Unbelievable and it also helps Chipper out too. Anyway I will be at the game tomorrow night to see the Braves pound that overachieving Jorge Sosa back to the real world.

By faninva

May 21, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

DOB - from the postgame comments, AJ just seems to be in denial. “They’re pitching me different than they pitched me before. So I just have to make my adjustment to what they’re doing.”….no kidding. until he listens to TP and adjusts, nothing but sliders. The hanging slider Papelbon threw in the ninth yesterday was wiffed at in a painful/comical way. Two years ago he would have crushed that ball..even the NESN folks said he looked completely lost. Andrew says it’s “no big deal”. i think it is.

By 22oz

May 21, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Andruw will not go on a hot streak until he makes an adjustment to his ridiculous swing. Hot steaks involve a little bit of every thing from bloop hits, homeruns, doubles, triples, seeing eye singles, and beating out the occasional ground ball, which he won’t do if he’s on the ground.

I don’t see this happening because Andruw thinks that nothing is wrong, so he won’t alter his approach. He may have lost weight over the winter, but i don’t think any of it came out of his head.

By Efrim

May 21, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

I don’t see how this team wins two out of three against the Mets……

By Bailey

May 21, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

I agree Will. I would rather start an outfield with Diaz in left, Harris in center and Francoeur in right. If we could trade Andruw for a starter, I am all for it right now. I don’t see how he is going to pull out of this. He keeps getting (and looking) worse. I hate to say that because of his defense, but at some point, you have to think about scoring runs and being clutch. In the ninth, yesterday he had an opportunity to have (possibly) the biggest hit of the year for us, but you almost knew what was going to happen. It’s just sad.

By AdirondackDave

May 21, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

DOB - As for Diaz, it really is unbelievable that the Braves got him for zip. Especially since he showed definite signs of a solid offensive player the year before we stole him. Somebody in JS’s office was/is doing very good work. I don’t know whether his future is here or somewhere else but he is one valuable commodity these days. What’s your take, is he here to stay or trade bait for pitching?

By Rick

May 21, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Efrim, just because you cant see this team winning 2 of 3 from the Muts dont mean they cant.

By Scott

May 21, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Dave, I hope you’re right about A. Jones. But right now his attitude is completely wrong for someone who needs to make adjustments. He’s been quoted as saying he’s a pull hitter. Pitchers are going to feast on that until he shows some ability to wait on the ball.

By Jimbo

May 21, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Time for A Jones to put up or shut up.Will had it right above, I can”t stand to watch AJ come to bat, I tell my kid not to copy his style that’s the way not to hit.Hope the Braves don’t resign him and let him go. Everyone can be replaced even AJ.

By fastasballs

May 21, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

I just can’t see Andruw getting hot, at least not anytime soon, maybe not for a long while. He has shown nothing lately but a few games against the Pad’s where he took it to right. He’s not hitting the ball hard, he’s up there straight guessing and even when he guesses correctly he can’t hit it.

I’ll use N8’s term of hack-n-jack except Andruw has lost the jack. Maybe hack-n-screw, hack-n-whiff, or hack-n-guess better describes his approach.

Some of his comments are mind blowing. Well of course the pitchers are pitching him different. Unless the pitcher makes a big mistake & Andruw happens to be looking for that particular pitch in a particular place he will swing & miss.

He needs to be embarrassed to the point he changes his total approach. Maybe the next time he is up with a runner on first & less than two out he should get the bunt sign. If he ignores it, yank him.

His lackadaisical attitude is going to spread to other members of the team. Maybe it’s time Chipper steps it up and rides Andruw’s butt for a while. Somebody needs to because he isn’t listening to the coaches.

By Efrim

May 21, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Rick,

Sosa isn’t going to keep pitching well, but do you expect Davies to pitch well tomorrow night. I don’t. I fully expect to be sitting here Thursday afternoon hoping Smoltz pitches well so we don’t get swept.

By jp

May 21, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

can’t we bench andruw for a week? put willie in center and teach andruw some humbility.

By Bailey

May 21, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I’ll say again. TRADE ANDRUW (if we can) FOR A STARTER!!

By Amber

May 21, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

I have long been an Andruw supporter, but my patience is wearing thin now. It sounds like he’s being too hard-headed to take TP’s advice and implement it. I expected better of him, especially in his walk year. He looked better than this in spring training.

Frenchy, on the other hand, seems to be making great adjustments. Way to go!!

By Greg in TN

May 21, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Morning gang…

I think DOB’s assessment of recent events is right on the mark. I was pulling for a good outing by Huddy yesterday, but failed to remember how good these guys have hit off of him in the past.

It’s certainly not doom and gloom for these guys although I can see how easy it is to get caught up in the solid start we’ve had. I think the glaring weaknesses we have can and will be addressed in time. It’s like Tom Selleck said in “Mr. Baseball” when talking to his interpreter about his ‘srump’, “There’s high tide and there’s low tide, then there’s high tide again.”

AJ admittedly has been stuck in low tide for as long as anyone would like to see him. He’s talking the talk in that he does need to make adjustments, however walking the walk seems to be the issue. There has been flashes of that at certain points during the year. I hate making predictions on what a person will do for a game, for a series, for the rest of the season, so I normally lay off that stuff. However, I would be surprised with anything other than a meager improvement in his batting average and with an ordinary amount of homers and RBIs.

He does have an average of .327 right now. But that’s his strikeout average (51 so far in 156 at bats).

As Nate would say, yikes!

One last thing for the morning. I continue to enjoy the fire I’m seeing and the hustle being exhibited by Thorman. He busts it everytime up the line to first. I really appreciate that. I also liked Diaz’s catch against the wall yesterday. That was a tough grab to make and he banged his ribs pretty good against the top of the wall which had minimal padding.

By BamaBrave

May 21, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Curse the interleague schedule which actually had me rooting for the - gag - Yankees last night.

But thanks for the perspective, DOB. All is not lost. Other than Andruw, the offense is clicking pretty well. We made the Red Sox Nation uneasy yesterday against “unhittable” Papelbon. I took some solace in that.

By Kieran from Long Island

May 21, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

What were the Ill-advised comments Lerew made that David eluded to in last Blog? I missed the Boat on that one, can anyone help me out??

By JC FROM UT

May 21, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB: is it likely that either Smoltz and/or Chipper pull AJ aside and suggest to him to start listening to the coaches or to cut back on his swing? These two guys are the leaders but do either of them have the the personality or whatever the word is to talk to AJ? I know Aj and Boras would never agree to it but in your opinion is there anyone out there who would if given the chance make a play for AJ? If things get any worse with the back end of the rotation, would JS and BC agree to bring Harrison,Smith or even Buddy Carlyle up?

By Senor Smoke

May 21, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

DOB - Rumor has it that Braves’ scouts have been spotted at Blue Jays games lately. Any truth to that, and who would they be looking at?

By Jim

May 21, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

I know its fashionable on this blog to pile on Jorge Sosa, but we would not have won the pennant in 2005 if it were not for him. He was the stopper when we needed a big win — I remember especially late in the season when we were in a bit of a tailspin, he came up big against the Phillies. I also remember his game in mid season against the Cards when he outdueled Carpenter for 7 innings and left with a 2-0 lead, (that became a 3-1 lead until Reitsma gave it all away in the 9th). He threw too many pitches and did not go deep into games as often as we would like, but he had good stuff and got out of jams with his movement, not just because he was lucky.

We lament about the effect that the WBC may have had upon Francouer last year, but I think it had as much of an effect upon Sosa. I think he was overweight last year and had dropped his arm angle from the previous year. In short, I’m not waiting optimistically for him to return to last year’s form for the Mets.

By Truth

May 21, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

Andruw, LISTEN TO TP OR SIT YOUR BUTT ON THE BENCH!

I always defended AJ, but now I’m at wits end every time his back knee hits the dirt as he tries to launch every pitch to LF.

I’m all for an OF of Diaz, Harris and Frenchy for awhile, and see how they do. Jones has got to get a serious attitude adjustment, and quick, or else I’m off his bandwagon FOR GOOD.

By SR

May 21, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

True enough but starting pitching remains a problem for this team which begs the question, where is the young pitching talent? James shows potential but is maddeningly inconsistent, Davies is even worse and then what, Anthony Lerew??? Is this all we’ve got? Why do we keep bringing up nobodies, e.g., Kevin Barry, Steve Colyer etc? Have we not been drafting and signing young pitching talent over the last few years or have we done so but no one stepped up or, has JS traded the bulk of them away??

What say you DOB and the others on the board, what is the consensus opinion??

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Good job giving Diaz some props. He’s one of my new favorite players.

I don’t think it’s coincidence that the two teams that let him go are the D-Rays and Royals.

Goes to show that the teams that perennially win are the teams that know how to find cheap talent. The teams that perennially lose are the teams that don’t know cheap talent when it’s under their noses.

By Brad

May 21, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Andruw’s comments tell the real story. Think about how much he’s discussed his contract situation over the past two seasons. His struggles began right around the trade deadline last season and they’ve continued into ‘07. Until there is a resolution, either via trade or an extension, I think he’ll continue to struggle. However, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. He’s patrolled the outfield like a Hall of Famer for ten years. He deserves more support than he’s getting while he’s still wearing the tomahawk.

That said, how about Andy and Salty for Verlander and a prospect?

By Efrim

May 21, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

SR,

I have been saying that for a while. No strong talent in the last few years. Matt Harrison and Jo Jo Reyes aren’t ready, but when they get here, I don’t expect much more than what Chuck James is giving us. I see no Tim Lincecum, Homer Bailey, Matt Garza, Phillip Hughes or Nick Adenhart in this farm system. I haven’t seen pitchers like that for years.

By Wino

May 21, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Its hard to hit the ball when you’re always hung over.

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for the new blog. Enjoy the flight home.

Francoeur is hitting over .300. This pleases me. Some in my own family said he was nothing more than a .260-.270 hitter. I’m not so sure about that. I think Jeff has the skills to be a .300 hitter or close to it every season. But we’ll see. If he follow’s AJ’s path, then he’s doomed.

It’s nice to see Diaz hitting again. Since Willie C has been here, and Langerhans has not, that LF platoon has been raking!

Payne: You still think AJ is more productive this season than Francoeur?

So, the only question I really care about getting answered is, When are Redman and Paranto going to be dropped? These two guys are terrible.

As for this weekend, it’s a bummer. Several key things prevented a win from occuring. Redman and Paranto were on the rosters and actually in a game. AJ can’t hit. If Redman, Paranto and AJ were not in the lineups this weekend, I think we would have pulled out at least 2 of 3. We out scored and out hit the BoSox despite the best efforts of those three.

As for AJ, he has to learn how to be a hitter. His big home run totals are nice, but if he wants to hang around for 10 more years he’s going to have to learn to hit. Payne might be a good source for this… I’m looking for a name. I want to know which hitter in history could give AJ hope at this moment. A valid comparison would be a guy who with 100+ K’s, .250 - .260 AVG and around 30 HRs a season prior to the age of 30 and then stuck around as a productive HOF caliber or HOF fringe player for the final 10 years of his career. I wouldn’t be shocked to learn there is no such player. That all previous 100+K, .255 hitters faded rather rapidly the older they got, eventually leaving them to walk away from the sport with a depressing batting average, 300+ HR and consistantly fading support for HOF enshrinement.

By meansonny

May 21, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Jim,

I agree with you about Jorge Sosa. He was Houdini when he pitched for Atlanta.

The difference now is that he is actually avoiding jams. Opposing hitters are hitting .174AVG. His whip is .084

He is dominating right handed hitters.

I do believe that this is the Sosa everyone had hoped for going into the 2006 season.

We can beat him. But he is not the same pitcher he was with Atlanta.

By Bailey

May 21, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Don’t trade Salty. I think an Andruw for Buhrle or someone like that would work.

By Johnny Evans

May 21, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Been a Brave Fan over 50 years=Players has issues like evryone else=I do not hear much negative against what I call Baseball Hall of Fame Disabled List=Even the great Chipper has been on the Dl..He does not abuse like alot does== I will give all my opinion how to settle all issues in basebal=PUT JOE SIMPSON IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING=HE KNOWS ALL=I AM DISAPPOINTED IN JOE THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS=HE REALLY LAMBASTS ANDRUW EVERY CHANCE HE GETS==SO JOE=SIGN YOURSELF TO A CONTRACT==PLAY CENTERFIELD FOR THE BRAVES= I DO NOT HEAR JOE SAYING TO MUCH AGAINST CHIPPER OR SMOLTZ’S BUT ANDRUW=IS HIS FAVORITE PUNCHING BAG== MAYBE LIBERTY WILL JIRED YOU AD GM=CEO=PRESIDENT=FIELD MANGER AND AT THE SAME TIME INERT YOU INTO CENTERFIELD=AND THE THE NUMBER 4 SPOT==

WHERE IS THE LEAGUE BEST PTICHERS AT NOW=THE WELL KNOW PLAYERS=WHO THOUGHT THEY WHERE SUPERMAN=AND THOUGHT THEY COULD PLAY THROUGH A INJURY=NOW THE MINOT LEAGUE PLAYERS THINKS THE SAME=BELIEVE THAT IS CALLED COPYCAT= RELEASE THEM=THERE IS PLENTY OF PLAYERS TO GO AROUND== SURE WISH SOMEONE WOULD CONVEY TO JOE SIMPSON=STOP ACTING LIKE STEVE STONE USE TO=KNOWS IT ALL JOHNNY EVANS CHESAPEAKE, VA

By Jim

May 21, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

I have been very impressed by Salty’s “presence” as well as his swing. He has star written all over him. I would be very loathe to trade him right now for a quick fix in the rotation. We are not going to get a Verlander, Hughes, Lincecum type of young starter in a trade for anybody including Salty. No team trades that kind of a pitching ace. We are more likely to get an “Ernie Broglio” (for Lou Brock) or “Milt Pappas” (for Frank Robinson) if we trade Salty now.

By rammerjammer

May 21, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

McBride should get the start on Saturday. His arm is better conditioned than Oscar’s to go 4-5 innings.

And somewhat overshadowed are these two facts:

Davies’ ERA in May is 3.44.

James’ ERA in May is 3.43.

So things may be better than they first appear.

The only thing that IS hard to be optimistic about is Andruw. I keep thinking “Dale Murphy, 1988.” The beginning of the end to a great career.

By meansonny

May 21, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

SR,

I don’t see a lack of pitching prospects in the farm system (no worse than any other team).

I think the fear is when a team has to rely on those young pitchers too early.

Look at what Boston has been able to do with Gabbard. He pitched 14 scoreless innings last September, and he goes back to Pawtucket to keep on developing (as opposed to our reliance on Davies and James, and potentially Cormier).

When everyone clamors to get Redman off the 25 man roster, we’re potentially rushing the talent along before it’s ripened. And since baseball is 75% mental, that could have damaging effects which delay the pitcher’s maturity.

By Mike

May 21, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Great timing with this blog dave. It was a tough week for Braves fans and we needed to hear that. I do think that the Red Sox from top to bottom are the best team right now and the braves were really one or two big hits away from beating them in their place. I thought there were some mistakes made in that game managerial wise though. Im always the first to defend bobby but I did not like that Kelly Johnson was not starting the day after he had a big game. I thought saturday that he may have gotten his confidence back but he was on the bench the very next day? Didnt make sense to me. I also didn’t like that Chipper was the DH because then you couldn’t have Salty getting 4 at bats. I do understand that he was trying to get him some rest though. He didn’t think that he would need that much offense with Hudson on the mound. I have to respectfully disagree with you on Andruw though, DOB. I have never seen him take swings like that before. His confidence and any sense of the strike zone is gone. I don’t see him coming out of it anytime soon although I sure hope I am wrong. And yes the Braves need another starting pitcher but please don’t trade salty to get one. This guy a stud, someone you can build your team around. Even if he can’t be the catcher, hes a difference maker

By Lee

May 21, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the multiple posts Mr. Know-it-all.

By Tomahawkin' Again

May 21, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, in reading your sidebar article about Andruw, his “I don’t know” why my knee is hitting the ground, “no big deal” responses to his strikeouts, “I’ll come around” like in previous seasons, etc. is so troubling, so discourging that this Braves fan is also at his wits end thinking about him. Between our bullpen, our #1 & 2 starters, Chipper’s health holding up, Jeff showing so much more plate discipline this year and better play from the glaring position holes in April (LF & 1B), there is only AJ and his embarassing last 3 weeks that is THE issue right now and will continue to dominate fans thoughts and hopes of bringing a world championship back to the big A. I know that BC won’t trash any of his players in the papers and I respect that about him (sorry Robert, I like Donk and think he is one the top 4-5 managers in the history of MLB), but I hope that behind the scenes there is some serious analysis and coaching going on because Andruw is a mess right now…and I’m afraid he will get booed out of here real soon (or have some peanuts thrown at him. Ah, David Justice, I miss ya!)

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Other players around baseball that need an attitude adjustment or someone to lay into them or need to be traded:

Jason Kendall, Nomar, Konerko, Delgado, Biggio, Iguchi, Cano, Zimmerman, Rolen, Michael Young, Cameron, Edmonds, Trot Nixon, JD Drew, Austin Kearns.

All these players are rank 14th or lower at their positions in OPS…and all would be traded or would need to get benched or yelled at if some of you were running their teams.

By Yars

May 21, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Andruw will eventually snap out of the funk he’s in. I agree with DOB in that Andruw will have .250/30/100+ numbers at the end of the season. I still don’t think the Braves can afford to re-sign him. As for our other OF’ers, Frenchy is putting together a solid season. I hope his average continues to stay over .300. Matt Diaz is in the zone, & Willie C. Harris is proving he won’t be playing in the minors again anytime soon. I hope we keep the Diaz/Harris platoon in LF for the rest of the season. I predict Kelly Johnson will go on some insane hot streak very soon. If you study his numbers at the moment, you would think Schuerholz is a genius for envisioning KJ as his 2B for the ‘07 season back in Sept. ‘06! I had my doubts about KJ over the winter & in spring training, but he is the real deal. I hope he’s our 2B for a long, long time. He’s off to a solid start, & I truly believe he will only get better.

By Nola

May 21, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Anytume there are men on base, I cringe when Andruw comes to the plate. Take the first pitch right down the middle, swing at the next pitch a foot outside, and take a called third strike right on the corner, then walk off smiling. We need another good reliable starting pitcher, a healthy Gonzalez, and Wickman as of old.

By Braveone

May 21, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

DOB: Has there been any discussion of playing Diaz at 1B? It sure would be nice to have both him & Harris in the starting lineup. The Braves scored 14 runs the 1 time they both started. I believe Salty could use some more seasoning in the minors & I am not sold on Thorman being the full-time 1B. The Braves need productive bats a 1B & LF and Harris & Diaz have the highest batting averages on the team.

By VaBravesfan

May 21, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

I have always defended Andruw around the proverbial water cooler. But this year I can’t do that anymore. It almost looks like the effort or desire isn’t there. Maybe the realization that he is playing the last year on the only team he has ever known is getting to him. I still think he will get a huge contract from somebody no matter what numbers he puts up this year. There are several hundred overpaid players in the major leagues already.

By Jim Bean

May 21, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Hey Andruw,

Drink me!

Your pal, Jimmy

By 22oz

May 21, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

BEEN A BRAVES FAN FOR OVER 50 YEARS, but just got a computer obviously.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Payne: You still think AJ is more productive this season than Francoeur?

Not at this point. But I think he will be.

Francouer has made tremendous strides and I think he’ll be better than last season, but I think he’ll come down a little. And AJ should come up a lot. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, it’s still early. With a big couple of weeks, AJ’s numbers will be about where they normally are.

By Yars

May 21, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Mike….I agree with you about KJ not starting on Sunday. Bobby’s philosophy is benching a player who had a great game the day before? I had to pinch myself Sunday when I saw the lineup & Prado starting at 2B. If KJ had gotten 4 or 5 at bats, maybe the outcome of the game would have turned out differently & in our favor. In any case, being that KJ didn’t start, if I were Bobby, I would have had him bat with the bases loaded instead of Salty.

By K-Druw

May 21, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

My “slump” ain’t no big deal. I am hitting .147 in May and .212 on the year. I have 51 strikeouts and 33 hits- but don’t forget about the 26 walks, 6 homers, and 1 stolen base.

Of the 97 players in the major leagues with at least 150 at bats, I have the lowest batting average! (Carlos Delgado of the Mets is second lowest at .214)

I am proud to be second in strikeouts in the National League with 51 behind Adam Dunn’s 60. At my current clip of 17 strikeouts in my last 33 at bats (over 50%), I will be number 1 in no time. Of course, Dunn has more SBs, runs scored, hits, homers, and better OBP, SLG, and AVG, but I am not worried about “stats” because I will be in L.A. making $20+ million next year.

I certainly don’t need to change anything at the plate or listen to my coaches. I just go out and play the same way that I play always. I blame the opposing pitchers for continuing to pitch outside and not even in the stinking strike zone! They’re pitching me different than they pitched me before. How am I supposed to be a pull hitter when they do that?

I know, in 2005, I hit to all fields and had a career year, but I am 30 now and have decided to narrow my hitting to one dimension only- left field. Of course, that is only when I make contact with the baseball and hit one fair over there.

Regards, K-Druw Jones #25 .212 and falling

By Lee

May 21, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

I wish I was as confident as DOB and most of you bloggers in thinking Andruw is going to snap out of this funk. I am beginning to think more of a 230 avg, 20 HR and 90 RBI season is in the future for him. I have watched Andruw play ever since he came up and I have never seen him this lost at the plate for this period of time. This has to be his longest stretch of non-productively ever. There is a also a career worse season as opposed to a career best season.

By N8

May 21, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“Yes, if the Braves could have received Johan Santana or Brandon Webb or Jake Peavy, they should have traded AJ, even if they had to bring Dale Murphy back to play CF. But not for pitchers that other teams are willing to trade.”

It’s STILL relative to each team’s needs.

Are you saying we shouldn’t have wanted Gonzalez because the Pirates were “willing” to trade him, in order to get a power hitting 1B? How about Seattle? They needed a starter, we thought we had enough starters (or JS didn’t think that highly of HoRam), so we traded.

All trades can’t be lopsided like Melvin Nieves for Fred McGriff.

A good trade is one where each team is helped out by trading from an area of depth, for an area of need.

Sure. We don’t (didn’t) have anybody to replace Andruw. But do we “need” anybody to replace his numbers, if we were to upgrade the pitching? Especially with how his “numbers” are ending up. The way I see it, it wouldn’t have been too hard to replace, what he’s given us so far. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that Harris getting five AB’s a game, would benefit us more than Andruw at this point and time. The “numbers” (from this year) back it up.

Like I said before. The Mariners gave up Griffey, Arod, and The Unit (all could arguably be considered as good, if not better at there respective positions as Andruw. They got rid of three HOF bound players over the course of 2 seasons and rebounded to win 116 games shortly there after.

I’ll keep repeating it, until you get it.

Give me a GREAT 25 man roster that plays like a team, over 3 superstars anyday of the week.

Funny thing is, is we STILL have Smoltz, Chipper, even Hudson. With McCann and Francoeur waiting in the wings of “superstardom”, yet some people seem to think that we’re the Yankees and need an All-Star at every position.

Nope. We just need pitching that could be considered better than Redman, Lerew and Davies. Trading Andruw last year, could have brought us that pitching. Period.

NOW, I’m done discussing this topic, before DOB bans me from joining in.

By BB FAN

May 21, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

NO CHOP ZONE,

The Mets had been trying to buy the NL East for years before Minaya finally did it last year. And it took the Braves suffering major injuries to it’s pitching and career years out of everybody on the Mets for them to win the division.

The Mets have a $115 million payroll compared to the Braves $81 million. Try removing $30-35 million from the Payroll and the Mets would be a last place team. Let’s see, that would be Beltran ($13.5), Glavine ($7.5) and Wagner ($10.5).

The best part is the Braves are right there in contention this year and they have taken 4 of 6 from your “mighty” Mets. You talk so much sh!t and yet the Mets have lost 4 of 6 to the Braves this year.

The Mets can’t develope any real talent so they just go out and buy the talent. They try to act like the Yankees (right down to hiring Randolph as manager). Yes, I know there’s Wright and Reyes, but beyond them, the Mets have not developed anybody. Hell, the Mets envy the Braves organization so much, they went out and overpaid for Glavine and Franco. I believe they even tried to get Smoltz years ago, but were turned down.

So far, everybody on the Mets roster has played over their head. Damian Easely? Jorge Sosa? John Maine? Oliver Perez? Those guys have all had career years already and it’s not even June yet. They better hope these guys don’t fall back to earth!

The Mets have also had 3 guys get suspended this year for performance enhancers. So if they can’t buy the talent, they cheat.

Face it, the Mets are classless compared to the Braves. Every team in the NL wants to be the Braves. Hell, even evey team in the AL (except the Yankees, who also buy success) want to be the Braves.

The Mets can’t do anything! They had to hire a career Yankee to manage the team. They can’t even come up with their own new stadium design. It’s basically Ebbets Field. And they are going to engrave a quote from a Dodger over the entrance of Citi Field. Oh yeah, the name, there’s another classless move…letting Citi Bank buy them off.

By Kentavo

May 21, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

I say let Andruw sit for awhile and bring him in late innings as defensive replacement. 14 runs is a fluke, yes, but when you have an automatic out in the lineup, it kills you. How come 22-year-old Salty (who had to be a bundle of nerves in the biggest at-bat of his young career) can have a better at bat than seasoned veteran Andruw Jones?

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 21, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, in reference to your 2 of 3 scenario. First Wright was not in sync first couple of series. He’s now found his groove (3 HR’s against the Yankees). Second, There’s no Pelfrey around to spot you 2-3 first inning runs. Third, typical of many braves fans, you’re underestimating the “revenge” factor that Sosa will have in his start. And lastley, The Mets are playing better ball right now and the braves are not…..

By Jim Bean

May 21, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Kentavo,

Only one of the two are down in Buckhead night after night. He’s been down there since he was 19.

By NS at Kennesaw

May 21, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Hi gang,

I agreed with most comments here on A Jones. I think he has got to realize that whtever he has in mind about his hitting approach has got to change. He needs to consider advice from C Jones and TP. Ohh…he needs to stop thinking that every swing is for a Home Run.

From my view as a Braves fan, A Jone slump is 80% stance/approach problem - which is fixable providing that he accepts it and that he wants to work with TP.

Like everyone, I have a bad feeling every time A Jones is at the plate. The this is scenario continues, the more I think that we have enough batting power in the line up but not enough pitching (particularly number 4-5 spots in the rotation) - - why not trade A Jones for some good pitchers.

By Grahamdawg

May 21, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

I watch the Braves every year and have seen Andruw look bad, but never this ugly. He looks like he has no idea what to do when he’s up there. Get it together Druw, or the Mutts will run away with this thing.

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

These players rank 14th or lower at their positions in OPS. Here’s what to do with them:
Jason Kendall - Bench
Nomar - Bench him and bring up Looney
Konerko - drop in the order. If no improvement, bench him and replace with a more productive batter
Delgado - his offseason hand injury is going to slow him. Don’t bench him. Hopefully he’ll never come around.
Biggio - needs 30 more hits before he can be benched. But seriously I’m not sure anyone on this blog or in Astros Nation would call for a guy going for 3,000 hits at the age of 42 to be benched. He’s producing for his age and goals.
Iguchi - drop in order/bench
Cano - Trade for a pitcher
Zimmerman - Like it even matters. He’s the only thing on that team that has any hope. Leave him in and bat him where ever you like.
Rolen - drop in order, bench
Michael Young - bench
Cameron - hold onto until trade deadline. Drop in order.
Edmonds - Finished anyway. That whole team is going down the tubes.
Trot Nixon - Producing at exactly his career levels. Keep him in there. He was never that great to begin with.
JD Drew - Of course he isn’t performing. His opt-out clause doesn’t come into effect for another 2 years.
Austin Kearns - Never plays in a lot of games. When he does, he performs exactly as he is performing. Nats are getting what they should out of him.

Langerhans is hitting .269 with the Nats. He’s helped that team more this season than any of the other 29 teams he’s been traded to since April 1st.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 21, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

BB….sure I, like any other baseball fan, admire how the braves develope players and get them to perform on the big league level. but c’mon now, you’re never gonna get me to apologize for the payroll. If you could push a button to get the braves to spend an additional 30-40 million you know you would. NY is the largest market in the US and why wouldn’t they spend the money necessary to build a winner…….STOP CRYING you’re soaking down the blog!

By Kentavo

May 21, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Maybe somebody should point A.J. to a more low-key bar scene than Buckhead, say Va.-Highland or East ATL, so his partying won’t sap all of his bat speed.

By Alan

May 21, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Folks, it really is time to be worried about Andruw. Maybe he’s hurt, maybe he’s not. In fact, right now he’s a terrible hitter. I think he should be benched indefinitely. Forget about a trade - even if he doesn’t veto one (which is his right as a 10-and-5-player), his value is down. Here’s the thing, though: If he is hurt, he’s got to say so! Isn’t it amazing how many Braves - mostly pitchers - over the last 2 years have admitted to injury/discomfort/disability after the fact - that is, after they’ve done poorly? Reitsma, Redman, Lerew, Wickman, Gonzalez. I’m probably leaving somebody out. For all the talk about “character” and “doing things the Braves’ way,” etc., I can’t understand how sanguine Cox and Schuerholz appear to be in the midst of this “stuff.” In any other line of work, withholding that kind of information is cause for disciplinary action. To my knowledge, the only Brave who has been disciplined is Willy Aybar. Oh yeah, Craig Wilson was released - wonder if he also was trying to “play through pain.” Aside from our pain, that is.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

N8,

No. The Braves trading LaRoche had to do with the fact that they needed a reliever and they had an adequate 1B in Thorman.

The Braves could have traded AJ but what would they have received? Maybe a solid pitcher and a couple of okay players.

It’s not just about replacing AJ’s bat, it’s about who’s going to play CF. If you trade AJ for moderately better (than Lerew and Davies, etc.) pitching and a CF that isn’t as talented as AJ, you aren’t getting equal value.

Also, in hindsight we can say Schuerholz should have pulled the trigger on a decent deal because AJ looks dreadful, he’s going to be a free agent, they need pitching, etc. But this assumes that a) we knew AJ would be struggling and b) he’s going to continue to struggle.

You don’t trade a HOF-caliber CF for a CF downgrade and a couple of very young pitchers in a year that you feel you have a chance to go deep in the post-season, even if he’s going to be a free agent at season’s end.

By Headlines

May 21, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Pitiful is the only word that describes the entire organization … Don’t go away mad, Just GO AWAY NOW.

By atlfan

May 21, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

DOB, when do you think Tanyon Sturtze will join the bullpen? Earlier reports indicated that he would be ready by late May.

By Kentavo

May 21, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

I hope A.J. is hurt - at least that way we can get him out of the lineup.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

It’s pitiful that this team is 2-1/2 games behind the best team in the NL and is leading the Wild Card race. It’s pitiful that this team, in spite of its injury and pitching troubles and slumps, has the 7th-best record in all of baseball.

We should just give up on them now.

By rob (mets fan)

May 21, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Ok, Andruw’s in his last year of his contract, he wants a big contract, and trying to impress people, he is not, he needs to relax and play for this year, not next year, He would make a good American League player, why, he could play the field and then have the pitcher hit and he DH…. Atlanta fans have been spoiled by his defense all these years, applaud the guy, he is amazing to watch! Sosa, he is improved, live with the fact that Roger McDowell couldn’t fix him, Rick Peterson did, were Glad he is a met!… Frenchy, I couldn’t think of one team out there that wouldn’t trade for him, he is a quality player, and still very young. The braves have built a good winning team here, forget last year, we welcome the rivalry and the race!, really who wants to win the division in Early September!…

We both have our weaknesses, but so do all teams. Should be a fun series, wont decide the pennant, but will be some great Baseball.

To bad Glavin isn’t going for 300 on Thursday, with Smotlz going for 200, that would have been the game of the year

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Payne: I love how you always set up your arguements. For example, the K rates of players. “I would much rather have a great hitter that strikes out than a bad hitter that doesn’t.” Such a solid arguement who could disagree? Too bad that wasn’t the choice nor the premise of the debate, but bully for you for throwing that option in there.
This one is a good one as well: If you trade AJ for moderately better pitching and a CF that isn’t as talented as AJ, you aren’t getting equal value.
Wow. What else could one say? It’s flawless logic: If you trade for crap, it isn’t equal value to not-crap.
I read N8’s post. I saw him suggesting trading for equal value, not all-stars but equal value. Bully for you though, for not letting that get in the way of your point.

By Jersey Gil

May 21, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Compare stat from last year and this year we are doing better, last year at the same time 44games we was 22-22 at third place 4 1/2 games behind the mets and Philadelphia second.We are now 26-18 in second 2 1/2. I think coming the summer hot July/Aug we be in first place after the Oldies Met collact of heat strout. We have a better minor league system .

By Mike

May 21, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of Andruw’s ho hum attitude. My 10 year old nephew has better batting mechanics. If truth to be known, TP must be furious that Andruw has not made any adjustments to that pathic wiffin motion of his.

By Efrim

May 21, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Jersey Gil,

No we do not have a better farm system.

Humber projects higher than Harrison and Reyes.

Milledge, Gomez, and Martinez are future outfield stars. If Milledge can get his act together. He will be traded.

Carp is better than any of our 1st base prospects. (Kaaihue)

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

My point is that it wasn’t likely the Braves could have traded AJ for equal value (unless of course you have a crystal ball and know AJ was going to struggle and know he’s going to continue to struggle).

I set up my arguments when people are black and white about things. “We should have traded AJ for some pitching; we’d be better off.” Well, that depends, doesn’t it. Saying “that depends” I don’t think is setting up my argument.

By Dawg1033

May 21, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Why does Cox feel the need to play Andruw anyway? Why cant’t he let Willie Harris play center and leadoff? Drop everyone else a spot. Johnson 2nd, Edgar 3rd, Chip 4th, Frenchie 5th, etc…this team has NOOOOO spead watching the Mets run around the bases makes me sick. Let Willie lead off, play center, and steal some freakin bases. Also, hopefully Salty is taking some grounders at first. I like Thorman and all… he hustles and plays hard-but he isn’t in the same league as Salty. Thorman is a disaster against lefties. Salty is a switch-hitter and has some pop in his bat. He had an unreal pinch-hit at bat against the SOX yesterday, nearly hit a grand slam. Trade Thorman and on of those scrubs off the bench!!! We have the worst bench in baseball…Pete Orr, Chris Woodward and Prada, are you kidding me??? What does everyone think about this. 1)Williw Harris CF 2)Johnson 2B 3)Renteria SS 4)C.Jones 3B 5)Frenchie RF 6)McCann C 7)Diaz LF 8)Salty 1B

Pitchers 1)Smoltz 2)Hudson 3)James 4)ANYONE except Leruw, Davies, Fat boy from K.C. or anyone else that is TERRIBLE. 5)ANYONE except those minor league pitchers we have been putting out there…see above at 4 spot. And Cox had better not pitch that hunk of junk from Kansas City ever again!!!Do with him like you did with that hunk of junk 1st baseman they just released. Neither one of them deserves to have their names posted.

By Fred from CT

May 21, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Efrim how bout escobar lillbridge andrus and don’t forget about salty.

By MBATL

May 21, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Regarding the coulda/shoulda on trading AJ last year: if you recall, the Braves were somewhat “on the fence” as to whether to be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline. We were hovering at about 5 or 6 games out of the wildcard spot with 2 months to play.

JS made the decision to try to win the wildcard - which of course meant keeping AJ, and obtaining Wickman and Baez. It didn’t work out, of course, but I think Braves fans (who expected us to come back right into September) would’ve been upset if we’d done it differently.

By Daxxed

May 21, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Time to sit AJ out for a game and let Willie take center…Then if he come up to bat an a runner on 3rd he will bunt in the run instead of whiff going for the fence…If Cox does not play small ball and bring in every base runner that gets on with no outs then watch the Bravos loose 4 out of six and be in 3rd or even fourth by the break…And If BC keeps the whiff king in the line up then he is just a coach that is good but will never be great…Look back at all the chances not just this year but many years and you will see where there were a runner on no outs and no bunts to advance him….Thats the difference between the Mets and the Braves…The Mets manufactor runs…While the Braves try to hit and end up whiffing or getting out without advanceing the runner.Proof is in the History and apparently in the future.

By Efrim

May 21, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

HERE IS A NICE KEN ROSENTHAL PIECE

Brave new prospect

The Braves’ biggest concern is their rotation depth; one scout says they’ve got a No. 1 starter (John Smoltz), a 1A (Tim Hudson) and three No. 5s. However, the team’s decision to release first baseman Craig Wilson to create more playing time for catcher/first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia ultimately could lead to a trade for a starter.

Saltalamacchia, an elite hitting prospect coveted by many clubs, could be the centerpiece of a deal for a pitcher such as Marlins left-hander Dontrelle Willis, A’s righty Rich Harden or one of the Angels’ young starters. Then again, the Braves might want to make Saltalamacchia their future first baseman; they’ll definitely need his offense if they lose center fielder Andruw Jones as a free agent.

Scott Thorman, the Braves’ current first baseman, still figures into the equation, at least for now. Manager Bobby Cox relishes Thorman’s intensity, and Thorman probably isn’t mobile enough to play left field. Of course, Thorman will be less appealing to Cox if he doesn’t hit. He had an .877 OPS in April, but is struggling with a .609 OPS in May.

By Jersey Gil

May 21, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

efrim Doesn’t matter if you have ten big prospect in the minor if you have those star in the major making big money(beltran,Alou,Green) you never go to bring those prospect to the Big Show. We have(Salty,Escobar,Jones(Brandon)JJ reyes…there are not ready get but you will see those guy in a couple year in the Major. What i tried to say is the mets don’t use the farm system to bring those kid up if they continuos to buy the NL East with a free agency.

By Zane Smith

May 21, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

[http://youtube.com/watch?v=RmohWqaVeF8]

By eware

May 21, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

It’s painful to watch Andruw this year. He just doesn’t strike fear anymore. As a matter of fact, he didn’t really strike fear last year - maybe a trend? Luckily, his defense is still superb.

As for Diaz…I’d like to see him in every day. I’m not sure about Willie Harris, though I love watching him play. Its kinda that Francoeur thing, where he was extremely hot at first, then really cooled off. Diaz, on the otherhand, has been consistent during his entire tenure with the Braves. I don’t care where he plays, just play him.

DOB, have you heard the new Ryan Adam’s songs floating around the internet? Pretty awesome. I’m psyched about the new album.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Look back at all the chances not just this year but many years and you will see where there were a runner on no outs and no bunts to advance him….Thats the difference between the Mets and the Braves…The Mets manufactor runs…While the Braves try to hit and end up whiffing or getting out without advanceing the runner.Proof is in the History and apparently in the future.

This is the funniest thing I’ve ever read on this blog.

The Braves are 3rd in runs this season. They were 2nd last season, 4th in 2005, 5th in 2004, 1st in 2003.

It’s amazing that someone actually believes that there is something wrong with their offensive approach over the last 5 seasons.

By Rob

May 21, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

BB fan, your pathetic, Lets see, the Braves have bought people too, Lets see, Wickeman, Renteria, Hudson, oh, don’t forget Hampton (money well spent), 80% of the players in the Big leagues, end up playing for teams other than where they came up, that’s the business, if you say the Mets bought the pennant, then you can say the Braves, when they had a super team, DIDN’T. When they were averaging 45000 people a game, they could have afforded to keep Glavin, Maddox, and other stars that have moved on to other teams willing to pay, not be cheap. Your just lucky that the team you have now is full of Braves prospects making the minimum, but in a few years when they can go out and get the big contract, and the braves don’t pay, they will be gone!!!!

The last 5 year teams that won the Series, didn’t win it with payroll, they won it cause they WANTED to win it. You could spend a trillion, (like the Yankees) and never win again.

So, don’t say we bought the pennant, we earned it last year!

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Saying “that depends” I don’t think is setting up my argument.
“well that depends, if you trade him for a bag of balls, we wouldn’t be better off.” You’re right, that isn’t setting up the argument.

I have a feeling that AJ at the trading deadline, a year and a half from free agency would have pulled in more than a marginal pitcher and substandard defenders with JS behind the wheels of the deal. AJ wasn’t ever going to be traded though so it’s all a moot point. He isn’t going to be traded this season. JS doesn’t want to trade him. Bobby doesn’t want to trade him. And AJ doesn’t want to be traded. Those are the three players in this deal that have a say and all three are needed in order for it to happen. So I’m not sure it matters anyway. Benching or dropping AJ in the order is needed. Sometimes even top players need a few days off to collect themselves.

I think the one thing that is wrong about most posts concerning AJ is, the dropping in the order or benching is suggested as a means of punishment or retribution. It comes across as being a move made out of malice. That would be fine with me if I thought AJ was tanking on purpose to hurt the team. But I don’t think he is. He’s in a rut right now though. There’s no way around it. Dropping him in the order is a way to let him work himself out while negatively affecting the team less. Benching him would be a way of granting him a fresh start. Neither should be done as a punishment, nor viewed as a punishment.

By The Grinch

May 21, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

As awful as Andruw is looking, as long as we keep him down towards the bottom of the order I don’t think he’s that big of a problem (who are we going to bat instead, Woodward?). We really, really need a No. 3 starter. Despite the horrendous starting pitching we’ve been getting from everyone not Smoltz, Hudson or James and the crappy production and soul killing pathos from Andruw in the cleanup spot most of the year so far, we’re not far out of first. Hudson and Smoltz are legitimate aces. James is a decent no. 4. If we were to get a solid no. 3 right now in a trade and let Davies, Sturtze, and Cormier fight it out for the 5th spot I think we’d have a damn good chance at winning the division. However someone needs to pull a Tonya Harding on Redman if indeed anyone’s seriously considering starting him again. That would be a move of Billy Knight proportions. No better options? Y’all know better than that. You could get someone off the surgury table whose just had Tommy John, anasthetic, bandages and all who would give you a better chance than Redman. In my 25 years or so of watching baseball, I’ve never seen an uninjured pitcher so thoroughly and consistently bad and I’ve seen some pretty bad ones.

By eric the elder

May 21, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Posted this to a dead blog, so I’ll try again.

Dear Andruw:

I won’t stand in judgment of anyone who can speak more languages than I can, so I won’t call you ignorant. Nor will I join in using any of the pretty crude comments about you that are woven through this blog.

No, Andruw, what I have to say is much worse: You are getting dangerously close to damaging your character, as others perceive it.

Your teammates will stand by you if they see that you are taking advice to heart. They will be with you if they see that you are trying to make adjustments. Even if you don’t do either of those things, they will still stand by you as long as they believe that the team is your highest priority.

If, however, you start telling reporters that your looking like a fool in critical situations “don’t mean nothin’” and “it’s no big deal,” then you will soon become a pariah in the clubhouse. You will be seen as Andruw caring only about Andruw, and your teammates are not going to take kindly to that, not when they are busting their butts and you don’t seem to be. Would it kill you to say something like, “I know I’m letting the team down,” and then make a visible effort to show that you mean it?

You see, my friend, a man can fail in many ways, as long as he has his intact character to fall back on for redemption. I urge you to seek a higher ground before it is too late.

By Jersey Gil

May 21, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

ROB You don’t earned last year…the Mets when to big spended last year. What happen was that you BIG PAPI(Chipper Jones)yes.. that Larry was in the Disabled must of the time, Thank you to that wear schedule we have again last year.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

The last 5 year teams that won the Series, didn’t win it with payroll, they won it cause they WANTED to win it. You could spend a trillion, (like the Yankees) and never win again.

Yeah, the teams that one it were the only teams that wanted to, I’m sure.

The teams that got into the playoffs that had good power pitching, good defense and a good closer or just plain got lucky won the World Series.

By robert

May 21, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

DOB - Great post as always… Andruw is frustrating more this year than in any stretch during his past! Did anyone else happen to notice that the one game that the “pure pull hitter” sat, we scored 14 runs, while the other two when he looked awful, we failed miserably? More than anytime in the past, I wish the Braves would trade him and get something for him! I would rather seeing ANYONE else in the lineup at bat in a clutch situation, than A. Jones. Bobby dropping him to sixth, maybe he should drop him to ninth and let the pitcher bat before him. Heck, at least the pitcher has some sense of knowledge when it comes to what he should do!!

By Zane Smith

May 21, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

John Rocker

By Fred from CT

May 21, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

Rob Wickeman, Renteria, Hudson, oh, don’t forget Hampton! all through trades you idiot not free agents get you facts straight before you come on a braves blog. thorman, johnson jones mccann salty franceour aj orr prado davies james all through the system mets have let’s see reyes wright heilman feliciano and joe smtih through yours.

By bclontz

May 21, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Been hanging out in the other blog, and felt I or they needed a vacation from whoever! Something is wrong with Andruw! What? I do not know! But I know it needs fixing! If it’s neurological, send him to a doctor! If it’s mental, send him to a shrink! If it’s splashable or bounceable (alcohol or drugs) let’s get him to treatment! If it’s something else, well, let’s pray for devine intervention, but let’s don’t stay with status quo! Right now, it’s no big deal with Andrew (he said that) but it sure as heck is with the folks who have admired his play over the years. When a major league baseball player swings at a pitch headed over his head to the backstop, so far out you couldn’t hit it with a 8 foot 2x4, I’d say it is a big deal! And just one other thing ! Are you so great that pitchers are singling you out to pitch the hardest too this year? You’re totally off balance in the box, you’re trying to hit every pitch to cooperstown, and your silly smirk isn’t as understandable as it used to be….America loves you, but right now, you’re pitiful Andrew !!!!!

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

If you say the Mets bought the pennant, then you can say the Braves, when they had a super team, DIDN’T.
I think that’s what he was trying to say.

When they were averaging 45000 people a game, they could have afforded to keep Glavin, Maddox, and other stars that have moved on to other teams willing to pay, not be cheap. Your just lucky that the team you have now is full of Braves prospects making the minimum
Maddux and Glavine both left for more money had have not produced near the same level as they did with the Braves. Braves weren’t being cheap, they were being wise.

But in a few years when they can go out and get the big contract, and the braves don’t pay, they will be gone!!!!
They will be gone if

By meansonny

May 21, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Good post TNPaul,

AJ working through his struggles at 6-8 in the lineup is much better than the emotional rants requesting he be sent to AA.

I recognized a need for a #3 starter after Chuck’s 2nd start (realizing that he was never intended to be our #3 for the whole season).

I don’t see us trading for an upgraded starting pitcher for quite some time (as we have to wait out the teams who still have hope for 2007). We’re going to have to make due with what we’ve got now.

The question is “what pitcher is at the end of a contract on a losing team? And what’ll we give up to get him?”

I think JS will work a good deal. If the budget is truly going up next season, hopefully that will increase the # of players he can select from.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

N8 didn’t specify the trade.

My point was that the trade that was rumored with the Red Sox wouldn’t have brought the Braves equal value (Lester, Hansen and Crisp); and actually the Sox reportedly weren’t willing to give up Lester.

I have no idea if he could have pulled in more but I doubt it, given his contract situation, which was my only point. Who would give up potentially equal value in young players for one year of AJ? And why would the Braves trade a HOF CF for anything less than potentially equal value in young players?

By Grahamdawg

May 21, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Jersey Girl and other Mutts fans, I think its all right to come on here occasionally and rift with Braves fans. But please, don’t come to this blog and have conversations with each other about your farm system….ridiculous

By N8

May 21, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“You don’t trade a HOF-caliber CF for a CF downgrade and a couple of very young pitchers in a year that you feel you have a chance to go deep in the post-season, even if he’s going to be a free agent at season’s end.”

A GM with an eye on the longterm future of the club would.

No guts no glory (the no glory part is something the Braves know all too well since 1995).

Besides, what does Andruw being a HOF “caliber” CF have to do with his ability to help the Braves NOW and the near future?

Alright, here we go one more time. In 1998, the Mariners traded Randy Johnson to the Astros for John Halama, Freddie Garcia and Carlos Guillen.

From the time of the trade until 2003 Randy Johnson went on to go 80-27 while costing the Astros/Diamondbacks 65 million dollars.

Over the same period for the Mariners Garcia, Halama AND Jamie Moyer (whom they wouldn’t have been able to afford without dumping Randy, Griffey and Arod, not even getting into Ichiro) proceeded to go: 209-122 while costing the Mariners a COMBINED 44 million!

Was either of them the dominant ACE that Randy was? Nope. But that’s 3/5 of the rotation over 5 years that was either acquired or able to retain due to letting randy “go”.

Do you really think that if JS put Andruw on the “block” last August (WHEN THE BRAVES WERE NOT legitimate contenders for the World Series), we wouldn’t have gotten “equal value” in quantity to fill our roster? Not to mention with the way that JS works other GM’s over, he probably would’ve gotten the other GM to throw in some cash too.

SOMBODY (Texas, Anaheim, Dodgers, Detroit, Boston, White Sox….) would’ve given us something of value for him.

But now, we’re stuck with a WORTHLESS effort by Andruw and then nothing in return when Andruw leaves after this season, one in which our starting pitching will keep us from making the post-season this year.

But hey! Mike Hampton’s coming back next year, right?

By JC FROM UT

May 21, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Would anyone give up a #3 startesd for Yunel Escober. Besides Salty he is probably the next most coveted prospect. The Angels and Dodgers are looking for production from their 3RD baseman. Maybe Escober for Joe Saunders of the Angels.

By r1U

May 21, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Get rid of Andruw’s agent and let BC have a chat with him. Too much thinking and not enough natural ability being used.

AJ doesn’t want to leave Atlanta…why would he…He is a legend already and can only build on it. This Boras BS is distracting.

His total display of disconnectedness from hitting could not have been more obvious than yesterday.

ANDRUW RELAX!!!! we need you to REEEELLLLAAAAXXXXX

By N8

May 21, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Shaun

You said:

“The Braves are 3rd in runs this season. They were 2nd last season, 4th in 2005, 5th in 2004, 1st in 2003. It’s amazing that someone actually believes that there is something wrong with their offensive approach over the last 5 seasons.”

I try not to look at the numbers as a sum, at the end of the season. Sure they say the Braves were top five in offense the last few years. The numbers don’t lie. I’m not gonna argue with you, I can’t.

But all you gotta do is open your eyes and watch the game and you see the panoramic view that the numbers don’t always show.

For instance: Take this past weekend with the Red Sox. We scored 21 runs. Averaging 7 runs per game. Surely enough to win right?

Oh yeah. That’s right. There’s the story that the runs scored totals don’t tell, isn’t there? That story being that the Braves scored 3 runs in game 1 of the double header and only 4 runs in game three, while winning 14-0 in game 2 of the series.

So oddly enough the “numbers” tell you that we outscored the Red Sox 21-20 this weekend. Remind anybody of the 1991 WS?

The numbers don’t lie Shaun, but they don’t tell the whole story either.

By Jersey Gil

May 21, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

DOB Are you taking the Day off?

By Me

May 21, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Don’t use crack. You’ll turn out like Shaun.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

N8,

The Red Sox reportedly weren’t willing to throw John Lester into a deal along with Crisp and Hansen, so I doubt a deal similar to the Randy Johnson for John Halama, Freddie Garcia and Carlos Guillen was out there for the Braves.

And you don’t trade a player like Andruw for just something of value, especially if you believe you can go deep in the post-season the following season, even if he is a free agent. You better get a Halama, Garcia, Guillen-type package if you are going to trade a player like AJ.

But I agree, if a trade like that were out there, the Braves should have pulled the trigger on it. In fact, I remember arguing with folks on this very blog that the Braves should move Andruw if the right package of players were offered.

Problem is, I have a hard time believing such a trade was out there because a) I think Schuerholz would have made it and b) reportedly the Red Sox weren’t willing to throw Lester in their offer.

By Lee

May 21, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

For the life of me I cannot understand all of the hype built year after year about the Braves and their minor league pitching prospects. I can’t remember a young pitching prospect in recent years that has put together two solid back to back years for the Braves or even a pitching prospect the Braves have traded away being very successful for more than one year on another team. Ramirez, Davies, James, Lerew, McBride, even Wainwright is having difficulty with the Cardinals this year…….the list goes on and on. Between injury or inconsistent performances there has not been anyone to step up and prove he is a consistent dependable starter that can go deep into a game. What is happening to all of these so-called pitching prospects!!!!!!.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with you DOB. It’s not that bad. If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that in late may we’d have the 3rd best record in the NL I would definately take it… However, I do worry that since the 7-1 start,the Braves are only 19-17. I am beginning to worry that the 19-17 team really is what we are, rather than the 26-18; know what I mean? I mean lets face it, last year at the end of May we were 4 games over .500 and only 4.5 games behind the Mets. Then June came and we all know what happened after that. I just hope another month like that isn’t waiting for us (although I don’t see how it’s possible with our bullpen)…

By daniel

May 21, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t somebody feel like they got hosed if the Braves were able to land a big package for andruw last season. The way he’s played since last July, they’d be asking about the return policy

By WHAT???

May 21, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

JC from UT….trade our number 1 prospect for Joe Saunders? That could be the dumbest thing I’ve ever see on this blog? Are you out of your mind or just drunk? Joe Saunders is in the same league as Davies and fatass from Kansas City Redman.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

N8,

Bringing up the Braves run total was a response to the person who posted that the Braves offense has been worse than the Mets (over “many years”) because they don’t “manufactor” runs.

I was just trying to point out that the Braves offense has manufactored and also manufactured plenty of runs since 2003.

By geauxbraves2000

May 21, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Back in 1982, the Braves should’ve traded Claudell Washington…Oh yeah, that’s right, it’s too late for that, just like it’s too late to go back to last year and trade AJ. Don’t look at the past, can’t change it, look at the future. Look at CF w/o AJ, see all those balls rolling to the wall.

Even with AJ’s stuggles at the plate, his defense alone is worth it. Maybe a day or two off is needed, but no more than that. Even if BC drops him to 8th, keep him in the lineup.

Geaux Braves!!

By Lee

May 21, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

IF and I know this it is a big if the braves sweep the Mets in this upcoming series, there will not be one Mets blogger heard from by Friday.

By AZBravoFan

May 21, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

More Andruw. Perusing his numbers from last year, after his hot start with 8 bombs in the 1st 3 weeks of April, he has a stretch of 29 games with 0 HR’s, 30 Ks, and about a .230 batting avg. Then he broke out with a 2 HR game and snapped out of it. Not quite as ugly as lately, but as he and others have said, this is nothing new, and assuming he’s healthy, hopefully history will repeat itself.

By N8

May 21, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I have to appologize. I was under the impression that your stance is that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES do you trade a “HOF caliber CF”.

I guess where we differ, is that if I was JS, I would’ve “gambled” that we had no shot of keeping him after this season and trade him for something. Of course if Andruw wasn’t going to be a 10/5 guy until THIS SEASON, then you could’ve reasonbily chose to keep him last year.

But WHAT IF we have another horrible June and by July we are completely out of the race, and Andruw STILL refuses to waive his no-trade veto power, and we have no legitimate chance of signing him this off season (and shouldn’t be too interested in doing so based on his effort so far)??

Then was the gamble to keep him worth it?

I just wish, JS would’ve been a little more pro-active last year, then reactive this upcoming offseason.

Who knows? Maybe if we’re out of it in July, he’ll be a man and tell JS that he can trade him.

But it more than likely will be too little too late, in what we get in return.

BTW: I agree, I don’t think that there was a Randy to Houston kind of trade out there to be had for JS. I too believe he would’ve pulled the trigger had there been.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Lee you are absolutely right about Atlanta pitching prospects. Haven’t really done anything in 5+ years now, and it ain’t gonna produce a great one in the near future either… Our strength is position player prospects and I truly believe that’s what it’s been for this entire run… Outside of Glavine, Smoltz, Avery and Millwood our minor league system has produced very little in the way of pitchers over the last 15 years!. But, if you look at position guys there are a ton. Francoeur, McCann, Chipper, AJ, KJ, David Justice, Javy Lopez, Johnny Estrada, Furcal, Marcus Giles, Jermaine Dye, Adam LaRoche, etc…

By Yars

May 21, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

The biggest concern for Atlanta right now is their starting rotation. Both Smoltz & Hudson are going to have great seasons, I think. As for Chuck James, I still can’t figure him out. Too early to predict numbers on James. Kyle Davies has yet to prove he can pitch at the major league level, & Mark Redman should have been released 3 weeks ago. We need a solid starter behind Smoltz & Hudson. Andruw should be the least of our concerns right now. He’ll snap out of the funk he’s in, & give us .250/30/110, gold glove defense type numbers at the end of the season. Arroyo, Towers, Dontrelle Willis, Paul Byrd are pitchers that I think wil be traded by their respected teams within the next 2 months.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

So oddly enough the “numbers” tell you that we outscored the Red Sox 21-20 this weekend. Remind anybody of the 1991 WS?

The larger the sample of games, the more likely run differential tells us something. I don’t think it’s a big assumption that the Braves offense was pretty good if they finished in the top 5 every year since 2003.

Also, the 1991 World Series is the exception that proves the rule. Look at how many games there were that could have gone either way.

Run differential is not perfect because it can never take into account close games and blowouts. But it’s a better indicator of future performance than past W-L record.

A good recent example is the 2005 Nationals. They were in first at the break (if I recall correctly) but their run differential was negative. Most people pretty much knew it was a matter of time before they’d start playing like they were supposed to and lo and behold they finished 5th.

Mark my words: the White Sox will soon start to fall way out of the AL Central race, the Yankees will jump back in the wild card race, the Brewers will fall back some and the Cubs will jump closer. These are teams that have over-performed or underperformed relative to their run differential.

By Lee

May 21, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

But WHAT IF we have another horrible June and by July we are completely out of the race, and Andruw STILL refuses to waive his no-trade veto power, and we have no legitimate chance of signing him this off season (and shouldn’t be too interested in doing so based on his effort so far)??

N8 - If that is the case I only hope B.C. has the B—ls to bench him for the remainder of the season or until he accepted a trade.

By daniel

May 21, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

N8, I agree that if Andruw keeps playing badly this season it would have been better for JS to take a gamble and gotten some young pitching in return. BUT, what if JS does the deal last summer and we get a young guy that really never pans out AND Andruw has a year that matches the previous 10 he’s put up? Then we basically got nothing, while conceding the wild card last year and not gotten Andruw’s big year this year.

Sure, if JS could have seen this huge slump for andruw coming he’d have done something last year. But if you gamble and let a player like Andruw walk and don’t get much in return, what’s that look like on your resume’ when Andruw produces his typical .260-30+-100+?

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

N8,

I’d have to say even knowing what we know now, I think it was a good gamble by Schuerholz to keep AJ, even if he continues to struggle.

Besides the fact that AJ is HOF caliber, yada yada, there is evidence out there that supports the idea that players play better in their contract years.

By Elmer

May 21, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

HOw about the grit of Salty to get the BB and rbi Sunday!

By Elmer

May 21, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

HOw about the grit of Salty to get the BB and rbi Sunday!

By N8

May 21, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000

You’re right. Nothing I can do about the past…..but complain about it in hindsight. That being said though, I was one of the few that were ALL FOR moving him last year, when the rumors were going down.

But this next line perplexes me:

*”Even with AJ’s stuggles at the plate, his defense alone is worth it.”

I couldn’t disagree with you more. Andruw has been in the big leagues for 11 seasons, since his call up late in 96. Since then seven different teams (Yankees, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Angels, Red Sox, White Sox, Cardinals) have won the World Series.

None of them had Andruw in CF. They did however have good CF’s (Bernie, Finley, Pierre, Erstad, Damon, Rowand, Edmonds). So don’t get me wrong. Defense in CF is VERY important. While I try not to take Andruw’s defense for granted (it IS great), 31 other teams manage to get by NOT having him man CF.

If Juan Pierre and his Sally arm can be the CF of a World Series winning team, well……go ahead and finish the sentence yourself.

Andruw’s defense while great, is NOT worth 14.5 million dollars per year. Period.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the Reds fall completely out of the playoff race by late July if they would consider trading either Arroyo or Harang for prospects… Either one of those guys would be a major addition to this Braves staff and would give us the best 1-3 starters in the national league… I just don’t see any way the Reds would move either one of those guys especially after they just signed them to extensions…

By Braveheart

May 21, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Oh good lord already. Yeah, Andruw is playing like crap. Yeah, I am incredibly frustrated. Yeah, I wanna slap him in his big thick stubborn head and tell him to grow up and learn how to be a disciplined hitter. Yeah, I wanna throw BP to him but make him put his back foot in a bucket so that he will learn not to drop to a knee anymore. Yeah, I wish he was hitting better. Yeah, I wish he would listen to his coaches and managers and teammates and make changes in his approach. Yeah, I wish he would tell Boras to go F himself and go do another contract with the Braves.

BUT enough already with the stupid send him down to AA, bench him, trade him crap. It is silly and stupid. He is a darn good player - not as good as he shoulda been and great by no means. Bat him seventh and let him work his way through it. Sit him down every once in a while - not to punish him and not because he sucks - but only because taking a seat at his age will keep his body and mind fresh. He has been a warrior for 10 years playing everyday. he is 30 now. It is too tiring to do that at his age especially when you are struggling - Chipper starte breaking down at that age as well. Andruw is still on a pace to have over 110 RBIs and he is playing horrendous. Think about that. Andruw will end up having hot stretches of the next 20 weeks where he carries the team for 6 to 8 weeks, so be patient and he will figure it out eventually.

By Yars

May 21, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Shaun……excellent post, but I can’t see the Brewers falling out of the NL Central race. I believe they are the real deal this season. I see the AL Central still being up for grabs. Unless the Yanks make a big trade for a #1 starter, the BoSox are going to run away with the AL East. I just can’t see Rocket Clemens making a big impact for the Bronx Bombers. Will the Cubs ever get it together this season? Such a talented team, so far few positive results. Man, believe it or not, the teams I am scared of are the Astros & Phillies. The reason I am scared is because if Atlanta doesn’t trade for a solid starter to pitch behind Smoltz & Hudson, I see both the ‘Stros & Phils in the hunt for the NL Wildcard. The Mets could easily run away with the NL East if the Braves don’t address their starting rotation soon.

By Treadway

May 21, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

By NO CHOP ZONE May 21, 2007 1:15 PM DOB, in reference to your 2 of 3 scenario. First Wright was not in sync first couple of series. He’s now found his groove (3 HR’s against the Yankees). Second, There’s no Pelfrey around to spot you 2-3 first inning runs. Third, typical of many braves fans, you’re underestimating the “revenge” factor that Sosa will have in his start. And lastley, The Mets are playing better ball right now and the braves are not…..

I don’t understand the significance of your points here. I’m not sure what kind of vindication Sosa is looking for. The Braves held on to him to the end of July last year. He went 3-10 and failed as both a starter and a closer here…..did hit 3 homeruns though. I would assume he was surprised the Braves held onto him for as long as they did. The Mets will give up on him at some point just as the D-Rays, Braves, and Cards have.

I think only a fool wouldn’t see that the Mets are playing better than the Braves right now. So what if they sweep the Braves? It’s the 21st of May! If they ended the season right now and played the World Series next week, the Mets and Red Sox would surely play a very entertaining series like they did 21 years ago. The reality is that it is a long, long, long, long season. The teams that play best in September and October are the teams that end up on top. The Mets and their fans should know that better than anyone this side of Detroit. The team with the best record in the NL last year lost to a team that won 14 less games during the season.

By Tomahawkin' Again

May 21, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Interesting article by the MLB.com writer for the Braves. Pay particular attention to Terry Pendleton’s comments and the usual, “What, me worry” comments that we’ve been getting from Andruw. [http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070521&contentid=1977779&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl]

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone,

That’s the way it is around baseball. Hitters are a lot easier to develop than pitchers. Because of injuries and flawed ways to evaluate pitchers, they come and go a lot quicker than hitters.

We were spoiled in the Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz era because it’s nearly impossible to have that many quality pitchers that healthy (particularly Maddux and Glavine) for that long.

I’ve mentioned this little thought experiment several times: Go back and look at Baseball America’s top 100 prospects since they’ve been ranking minor leaguers in 1990. There are a ton more pitching busts than hitting busts.

By GiveUpNow

May 21, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

BRAVES SUCK. ANDRUW IS GOING TO HIT .150 FOR THE SEASON. HUDSON, SMOLTZ, THEN NOBODY. GIVE UP NOW.

By Joe

May 21, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

I hope everyone is coming out for the series against the Mets this week. We need to be there ready to rock the Ted. Being at the Smoltz/Maddux game was electric with the number of fans and the playoff-type atmosphere that was going on around there. This is an exciting Braves team and we need to provide them a homefield advantage. Let’s get out there, be loud and support our Braves with a homefield advantage.

By N8

May 21, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“…there is evidence out there that supports the idea that players play better in their contract years.”

I can totaly agree with that. I did expect us to AT LEAST get one more monster year out of Andruw before he walks. In fact, even in my Doom and Gloom state I’m in right now, it’s STILL not out of the question at some point this year.

I just haven’t seen any signs from watching him, that the hot streak is gonna start anytime soon. He looks more lost than ever. Maybe the lightbulb will just turn on, and so will his power surge.

I just hope that we’re not 10 games out when he does turn it on. Because if his bat was hot right now, that could make up for some iffy pitching we’ve had recently. It wouldn’t solve it long term, but it sure couldn’t hurt.

As far as the “runs scored” comment a few posts back. I hear ya. Wasn’t trying to attack you (heh heh), but you know where I stand on the small ball vs. hack-n-jack.

I not neccesarily an advocate of bunting everytime somebody gets on base. But I would prefer a lineup of 8 guys that have a good approach and put themselves in a reasonible position to succeed with guys on base, than to have 3-4 of those guys and a bunch of hackers.

It really seems like we do have that right now. KJ, Renteria, Chipper, McCann, Francoeur and even Salty seem like they “get it”. Thorman seems a little “hacky” to me, but he’s a first year starter….he get’s a flyer this year. Look what strides Francoeur appears to have made from last year to this year.

That’s all I ask. At least make it look like you’re trying. I’ll give you this, with Andruw and his walks. I believe he might have a better chance to succeed if he just left the bat on his shoulder and took pitches. Because he appears to be guessing wrong on EVERY pitch he swings at. There is NO other way to explain 5 K’s (swinging) in one game.

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Yars,

Yeah, I think the division is the Brewers to lose. But I think they’ll fall back some.

And I think the Sox are too good this year to fall behind the Yankees. Even if the Yankees played to their run differential, they’d still be far behind the Sox. But the Yankees should get right back into the thick of the wild card hunt.

By BB FAN

May 21, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Rob,

The Mets did earn it however, it took them going on a spending spree to do it. If MLB had a cap like the NFL, teams like the Mets would never win because they do not know how to spend wisely. They just throw out the most money to get all the free agents.

And like another blogger stated, those Braves players you mentioned were through trades where either the other team paid good portions of the contract (Renteria and Hampton) or the player signed for less money after the trade (Hudson, Wickman). But they were only trades, not free agent signings. Come to think of it, I can only think of Maddux as the one big spending spree. And Maddux accepted less money to sign with the Braves. The Yankees and Cubs offered more. And I’m sure the Mets did as well, but were turned down. Oh and Galarraga was the other big signing 5 years later. But again, it was reasonable 3 year deal worth ~ 24 million.

NO CHOP ZONE,

I wouldn’t want the Braves to spend foolishly like the Mets. So no, I would not want another $35 million added to the Payroll. Another $10 million, yes, but that’s not buying every free agent out there.

The Mets have added the best free agents over the last few off seasons: Glavine, Martinez, Beltran, and Wagner were all top free agents.

I’m all for signing a player or two, just to fill in needs, but I’m not for signing the heart and soul of my team. That needs to be home grown. For example, the Mets signing of Moises Alou was a smart signing. I think it was for less than 7 million and for only one year.

By truckstop

May 21, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Andrew WILL NOT go on a hitting tear (unless they pitch to him underhanded) until he changes his approach. This year I call him Andruw “I know I can pull that outside pitch” Jones. If he doesn’t make the adjustment to hit outside pitches to the right side (as he’s done in previous years), his production will continue to go South.

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

DonC: Outside of Glavine, Smoltz, Avery and Millwood our minor league system has produced very little in the way of pitchers over the last 15 years!.

When you really look at it, it’s even less impressive. Smoltz and Glavine are the only two producing good numbers throughout their entire career. Smoltz wasn’t even a product of our farm system. We snatched him from the Tigers. Glavine is the only HOF pitcher we’ve produced (draft to debut) in the last, I don’t know, 25 years or so. Millwood hasn’t been the same since he left. Avery fell apart. Schmidt has only had 2 good seasons in his entire career. Our vaunted system produced a lot of hype which JS correctly pawned off on other teams for a better piece to the puzzle.
I had asked DOB this past off season, or last season I don’t recall, if he knew of any HOF potential types down on the farm. He never said. I took his silence to be a cold, depressing, no. I know it’s impossible to predict a pitcher’s career path, but some pitchers hold more promise than others, and we don’t really have many of those high end promise pitchers in our system. We have guys who are doing well down there, but the types that make every other team drool.
You’re right about this though. We do make some sluggers. When we pull up a farm hand position player, it’s a pretty good chance he will produce while up with the Braves at least, if not for any other team. Maybe that’s the spirit of the Hammer.

Mystically speaking, signing the Babe to his final days with the Braves may have been the best move ever. He retired his spirit of offensive skills within our franchise. Since then it’s been tons of sluggers popping up through the system.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Efrim-What exactly s it about Harrison and Reyes (both in AA) that makes you think they will be nothing but average? Judging from the list of pitchers you mentioned (Garza’s the only one I’ve ever heard of), you have awfully limited insight, if you think they have been the recent class of MLB. What about that guy with the Cubs (Hill?), or Bergmann of the Nats? I sincerely doubt you have a vague clue about who at AA is good now or will be in two years. That is, unless you’re really a scout. By your comments on this blog, I sincerely doubt that, too. Personally, I can’t see you have much of a clue.

By Willy Wally

May 21, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Mets fans, your tragic number now stands at 123!

By Willy Wally

May 21, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

The Magic Number for the division is 123!

The Magic Number for the wild card is 117!

By Ron Roberts

May 21, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

BraveOne… What has Scott Thorman done (or not done) in your mind, to warrant being bumped by Matt Diaz? He hit .270 with 2 HR and 9 RBI on the roadtrip. That’s fine with me from 1B. Especially from a guy who’s, in essence, a rookie.

Folks, the bottom line is this…. we’d still be in first place or only half a game back if we’d done what we were supposed to do in that roadtrip… and that’s 2 of 3 in Pittsburgh, 3 of 4 in Washington and do no worse than 1 of 3 in Boston. That Washington series was a killer…pure and simple. Losing the Smoltz start there was brutal.

And yet, as DOB says, we’re still only 2.5 games back, with Andruw offereing little-to-nothing at the plate and not-even-serviceable pitching from the 4 and 5 guys.

I think better days are on the horizon, though. Kyle Davies has turned it around, I believe and will pitch along the levels we’ve gotten this season from Chuck James, and I think Chuck’s gonna ramp it up soon, too. That puts our rotation four-deep with Lance Cormier (hopefully) coming back soon.

Kyle’s pitched well the last three starts, really; there’s reason for optimism. And as DOB said, c’mon… Jorge Sosa’s something the Mets are exited about??? And for us, if Lance Cormier isn’t gonna make it back, we have to figure out who that fifth starter is, because once we’re done with the Mark Redman experiment (and by reading Bobby Cox’s words after his pitching over the weekend, I think he already is, mentally done w/him), we have to address that role. Did they not-so-subtly groom Macay McBride for the role? And if so, why won’t they just acknowledge it?

I’ll say this much: Anthony Lerew just sh!t in his ballcap over the weekend, by

a.) playing with pain and not saying it or

b.) saying so publicly when only he and the team should’ve been privvy

By joebrave

May 21, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Well Well look at what we ahve here,Nochop boy do you have a job?Everytime I log on heres a little peckergnat named nochop spewing about how great the Mets are..I think my Braves are pretty damned special too,with the eception of a couple pitchers,and figuring out how to get A.J. on track,I think we’re a fine damn team,Folks,let me put it this way,A.J. has to O.K. any trade so I kinda doubt His fat@ss is going anywhere,I already outlined all of the available pitching yesterday,and until Scot Bor@ss has a damn brain anuerism MLB is stuck with the sumbitch,Dump Redman,Call up Harrison let him take his lumps, and develop more pitching from within!!!!!!!!!!!!

By JasonInMaine

May 21, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

I agree on the state of our pitching prospects as well. I have been saying for years that we haven’t produced an ace in a long, long time.

By K-Druw

May 21, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Andruw needs to check his head and start “caring” about the team.

“I can go 0-for-24,” Jones said. “I don’t care. People can make a big deal about it. I don’t. I just go out there and play and help my team any way that I can.”

Striking out 17 times in the last 33 at bats is not helping the team. What’s worse is his nonchalant, cavalier attitude. Get fired up and give a crap.

By bruce

May 21, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

David: Reading about the awesome stats that Diaz has put up, (especially after his slow start) reminded me of the discussion in your Jan 28 blog titled, What to do in left field?. We had just signed Wilson and there was debate on whether Diaz was a liability defensively in left field. I posted more in that blog than any other trying to make the case for Diaz, both emotionally & statistically. And since his great rib catch this weekend and his hot bat, I just wanted to say thanks for pointing it all out for us. I am happy for Matt, and also happy that Langy has picked things up a bit in DC (hitting .269 for the Nats). Thanks! Bruce

By ChampDawg

May 21, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t matter what the records are now or what they’ll be after this Mets series. I’ve watched every Braves game this season and I’ve seen more than enough to know that this Braves team is at best the 3rd best team in the NL. The Mets have more talent for sure. The pitching woes continue and until Andruw get’s his head out of his @$$ this team is going nowhere. Willy H can handle centerfield and is damn sure a better bat right now. Get rid of Andruw for pitching help!

By BEST LINE OF THE DAY

May 21, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

“Outside of Glavine, Smoltz, Avery and Millwood our minor league system has produced very little in the way of pitchers over the last 15 years.”

For shame! Only two Hall of Famers during the last 15 years.

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

I’m confused (a feat easily accomplished, but nonetheless…). Is the complaint that pitchers with fewer that 35 ML starts (James, Davies, Lerew) are inconsistent? Is the expectation that all Braves’ minor league pitchers should immediately be lights-out, sub-3 ERA, nine-quality-starts-in-a-row all-stars just for strapping on the leotard with the A? Is it that posters feel these young pitchers will NEVER improve, that this is indeed the high point of their careers (as some thought Frenchy’s OBP would never reach .300)?

Then you are doomed to disappointment, now and forever, amen, on all counts. Felix Hernandez is the rarity, not the norm. But most young pitchers, at least those with tools, get better with experience. And sometimes experience means getting your head handed to you, or hanging a curve ball in the wrong situation. It happens. That’s baseball.

But to believe that young pitchers such as Davies and Lerew are destined for a career of mediocrity because they failed in their 5th, or 10th, or even 20th lifetime start is short-sighted. Sadly, it seems that instant gratification has become the blog byword recently: we are nose-to-nose with the big picture and see only the speck of color at the edge of our close-in vision.

By 22oz

May 21, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Good article on Andruw by Bowman on atlantabraves.com.

By Willy Wally

May 21, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Just bring up the minor league pitchers. They can’t be worse than Redman.

By bruce

May 21, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Ron After a good off day today, I really like your perspective in your 4:14. Thanks, Bruce

By rammerjammer

May 21, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Paronto and Redman are becoming the Reitsma and Remlinger of 2007.

Surely Buddy Carlyle (5-1, 2.22 ERA, 44 IP, 34 H, 8 BB, 50 Ks in Richmond) and Will Startup (2.95 ERA in relief) can do better.

If the Braves get swept by the Mets - and it absolutely could happen - they’re 5.5 down.

JS, he who hesitates is…

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

I don’t worry too much about how the Braves stack up at the 40-game mark, only at the 140-game mark. Whether they are the 3rd best team in the league or 3rd worst at this point, means absolutely diddly. Unless I missed the memo, they don’t start the playoffs next week.

By bruce

May 21, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Rosalyn, I think Jimmah needs hep with his phawts again.

By Cowboy Sez Andruw & The Blog Denizens Needs To Listen

May 21, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction.

The best way out of a difficulty is through it.

What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds.

If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Tellin’ a man to git lost and makin’ him do it are two entirely different propositions.

You can’t tell how good a man or a watermelon is ‘til they get thumped.

Never miss a good chance to shut up.

If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen are defrocked, shouldn’t it follow that cowboys would be deranged?

Talk low, talk slow, and don’t say too much.

Save money on the bull, ride a cowboy.

Save money on the horse, Ride a cowgirl.

The easiest way to eat crow is while it’s still warm. The colder it gets, the harder it is to swaller.

The biggest troublemaker you’ll probably ever have to deal with watches you shave his face in the mirror every morning.

Don’t worry about bitin’ off more’n you can chew; your mouth is probably a whole lot bigger’n you think.

If it don’t seem like it’s worth the effort, it probably ain’t.

By Braves Fan Trapped In OR

May 21, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Andruw Jones looks gawd-aweful and absolutely clueless at the plate. Twice yesterday against Boston and at least once against Washington, he was up with runners on and a chance to do something good. All three times he struck out, all three times I could tell from the first swing. In his attempt to look good on SportsCenter by dropping to one knee to hit a home run he is falling away from the outside pitch. On all three strike outs, the out pitch was on the outer half of the plate. Its embarassing to see a great player like Jones look like my friend’s 3 year old. He has to make some adjustments or he can expect to have more “back problems” from his lousy excuse of a swing at the plate. Of course being dropped in the line up won’t help any because he is so full of himself, his lazy arse ego will just cause him to give up. Remember the time Bobby pulled him from the game early in his career for half-arsing it in the outfield. From that point forward he never let another ball drop. Maybe Bobby should rip him a new one for his vomit-inducing plate appearances. In at least 3 of his K’s yesterday, my brother noticed V-tek was moving to the outside and all three times we called the K. Its sad when a person’s struggles become that predictable. I was so worried at the beginning of the season about this possibly being Andruw’s last year in the ATL, but maybe he is just helping the Braves out by lowering his market value. So I guess in one way I can thank him for extending his stay. Does anyone on the Braves staff have Willie Mays’ number, so he can help Andruw’s swing again?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

May 21, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

If pigs had wings they could fly…

I don’t think John Schuerholz has that magic crystal ball that can tell him in advance when a player is done or if he is going to be injured. He can make a best guess estimate on which players to trade and which ones to hold onto given good information but reality is who could have seen this coming with Andruw Jones?

Does anyone that blogs here think that the Braves management and coaching staff have not seen what we see or don’t have these same discussions? The real question is how to fix it? That is what the Braves coaching staff is being paid to do.

My only expectation is for those in charge to get things fixed, whatever that takes.

By Braves Fan Trapped In OR

May 21, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

BEST LINE OF THE DAY: Smoltz was actually a product of the Detroit Tigers’ Minor League System. The Braves received him in a trade for Doyle Alexander. So to correct your facts, the Braves’ Minor League System has produced ONE HOF Pitcher. But the Braves, i.e. Bobby and Leo, helped produce 2 more. For a grand total of 3. Let me know of any other organizations who have produced that many since 1990.

By Willy Wally

May 21, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

“We haven’t given up on him,” Cox said. “We never have and never will.”

That right there is why he is the greatest manager of his generation, no matter what his faults are with strategy and no matter what Robert likes to say. If everyone had coaches, bosses, and fathers who thought and acted like that, this world would be far more incredible than it already is.

By Interested Observer

May 21, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

I think in the end Andruw’s attitude is going to cost him more than his overall numbers. Some of the comments he’s made regarding his slump are very disturbing.

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

What makes you think AJ would listen to Willie Mays? Or anyone else, for that matter? It’s his livelihood, and he’s only going to do what he thinks is best. Right or wrong. The only reason players listen to any coach is because of SELF-interest, and right now AJ doesn’t seem to think opinions other than his own are relevant.

By geauxbraves2000

May 21, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Andruw’s defense while great, is NOT worth 14.5 million dollars per year. Period.

Point taken N8. I just hate to see CF w/o AJ, but you are right about all the other teams winning w/o him.

What a quandary.

Geaux Braves!!

By Lew

May 21, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Rammer-I have a feeling that Paronto is still troubled by his groin injury. He may be overcompensating because of fear of reinjury or a continuing discomfort. However, with the bullpen depth (Boyer, Devine, Startup etc.), it would be better to disable him and let him heal, if this is the case. As far as Redman-I’m shocked he hasn’t been released . It has to be because we lost Lerew, that he is still with the team. I’m usually pretty optimistic, but he has looked terrible.

By superadam

May 21, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

DOB Are pther teams talking about how bad andruw has been and his stubborness to change the swing? Do you think it will affect the Angels Dodgers Red Sox Yankees or insert big budget club from throwing Vernon Wells money at him

By superadam

May 21, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

DOB Are other teams talking about how bad andruw has been and his stubborness to change the swing? Do you think it will affect the Angels Dodgers Red Sox Yankees or insert big budget club from throwing Vernon Wells money at him

By Braves Fan Trapped In OR

May 21, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

ncscoots:

I was merely referring to the story from a few years back…true or untrue…about Willie Mays giving Andruw advice on his stance. Supposedly this tip contributed to 51 HR year of 2005. I think the story may have just been press created. But you are right at this point it doesn’t sound like Andruw has any interest in listening to anyone. I feel bad for TP…who can see the problem, has told Andruw, yet he still choses to ignore him.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

WillyWally-Does it count that Andruw is still on my fantasy team, even though he is killing me in the standings? How’s that for support?

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: Good post on the younguns. I wouldn’t say any of them are finished, except Kevin Berry, he should just give up. But James and Davies could turn out alright. Davies, though, is fast becoming HoRam; a kid with promise and injuries that never panned out. Davies needs a strong season to merit more respect. James needs to do OK to maintian his respect. Lerew needs to be healthy. Seems everytime he comes up here he isn’t right either in the head or body.

By Kentavo

May 21, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

I think A.J. will be on the D.L. soon to save face, and make it look like he’s more injured rather than just plain lousy - to clear the way for anyone that can at least make contact. I wouldn’t have wanted to stand in there to face Paplebon, but I could have had the same results as ‘Druw - and I don’t even get paid.

By Fred from CT

May 21, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

Mets prospect Philip Humber (3-4, 4.59) followed up one of his best Triple-A starts of the year with one of his worst Saturday.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Just goes to show that listening to your coach is preferable to listening to your agent-or should be.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

“But the Braves, i.e. Bobby and Leo, helped produce 2 more. For a grand total of 3. Let me know of any other organizations who have produced that many since 1990.”

I will admit Bobby and Leo may be a big part of Smoltz’s success; but do you honestly think for a second that if Greg Maddux had signed with the Boston Red Sox or LA Dodgers he would not have ended up a hall of famer? You my friend have faaaar too much faith in Bobby and Leo if you believe that.

By Efrim

May 21, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Fred from CT,

Ability is important. Harrison and Jo Jo Reyes’s ceiling is #3. Humber’s is a #2. Stuff is important. Chuck James had a great minor league record. James is a #4 at best in the majors.

By BEST LINE OF THE DAY

May 21, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

OR - First my condolences on living in Oregon. I think you’re splitting hairs on Smoltz. He spent 1987 and 1988 in the Brave’s system before being promoted in ‘88. I think that counts.

By Jim

May 21, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

Maybe there is one person Andruw will listen to — Scott Boras. He needs to tell him that if he doesn’t listen to the coaches and change his approach he can forget about the 8 figure contract he hopes to get. Even Boras can’t over sell a client if there is nobody bidding.

By Efrim

May 21, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

I am not asking for HOF pitchers. I’m just looking for something better than Kyle Davies, Chuck James, Anthony Lerew, Damian Moss etc….

Can we get a Matt Cain???

How about a Jered Weaver?

I’ll even take a Matt Garza.

The 14th pick in this years draft better be a RHP.

One with a live, good fastball. Not 87 mph gas like my boy Chuck throws.

By rammerjammer

May 21, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Lew, I’m with you. Paronto just hasn’t been the same since the injury and needs to go to Richmond and work things out ‘cause he was pretty good last year and this April. Redman, on the other hand, just needs to go…preferably far away and quickly.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Rosenthal wrote this about the Braves earlier today:

Brave new prospect The Braves’ biggest concern is their rotation depth; one scout says they’ve got a No. 1 starter (John Smoltz), a 1A (Tim Hudson) and three No. 5s. However, the team’s decision to release first baseman Craig Wilson to create more playing time for catcher/first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia ultimately could lead to a trade for a starter.

Saltalamacchia, an elite hitting prospect coveted by many clubs, could be the centerpiece of a deal for a pitcher such as Marlins left-hander Dontrelle Willis, A’s righty Rich Harden or one of the Angels’ young starters. Then again, the Braves might want to make Saltalamacchia their future first baseman; they’ll definitely need his offense if they lose center fielder Andruw Jones as a free agent.

Scott Thorman, the Braves’ current first baseman, still figures into the equation, at least for now. Manager Bobby Cox relishes Thorman’s intensity, and Thorman probably isn’t mobile enough to play left field. Of course, Thorman will be less appealing to Cox if he doesn’t hit. He had an .877 OPS in April, but is struggling with a .609 OPS in May.

So what do you guys think of that?

By Braves Fan Trapped In OR

May 21, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

BEST LINE OF THE DAY-

August 12, 1987: Traded by the Detroit Tigers to the Atlanta Braves for Doyle Alexander.

Debut July 23, 1988

Splitting hairs…he spent less than 5 months in the Braves’ Farm System.

All I am saying is you are putting too much pressure on the the system by saying it was once great and then dried up.

By AZBravoFan

May 21, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Lew, I have to agree with you about Paronto. He’s clearly not right. Aren’t you getting tired of marginal pitchers trying to pitch through injury and just making things worse? Reitsma, Wickman (OK he’s not marginal but he’s got the most important job), Lerew, Redman. The stubbornness/selfishness is really irritating. I get that Lerew just wanted to get to and stay in the bigs, but I don’t think he helped himself. As for Redman, it just goes to show how low the bar is to pitch in the big leagues. Especially if you’re a lefty.

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Payne: Going back a few days ago, maybe a week, you had asked how I can assert that AJ doesn’t want to take advice from anyone. I believe you ended it with “Do you know him?” or some smart@ss comment of the likes. Here is a little text to open your eyes. I’d provide more, but it shouldn’t be necessary. I haven’t seen you call out everyone else yet. I’m guessing you realize this is AJ’s character. To me, and many others here, it is viewed as a character flaw. Make of it what you will, but AJ is on a record pace right now as Bowman points out and as DOB has been highlighting as of late. Help is there when AJ needs it, all he need do is listen.

By Braves Fan Trapped In OR

May 21, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone-

I will give Maddux some credit too. All I was saying is that Smoltz spent hardly anytime in the Braves’ Minor League System. Yes, Maddux contributed some also. I would even say Smoltz spent more time with that Sports Shrink than he did in the Braves’ Minor Leagues.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Efrim I agree with your 5:31 post… Although I honestly do think Chucky’s ceiling is as a #3 starter rather than a 4. IMO he is an ideal #4 starter which is why we need to bring in a #2 or #3 starter before the trading deadline. Personally, I think we could compete for a World Series championship this year if we added someone like Dontrelle Willis, Arroyo, a (healthy) Rich Harden, or Dan Haren. Even someone like a Matt Morris or Dave Bush would make our rotation sooo much better it isn’t even funny. Chucky at #4 and then a “whos hot” revolving door of Davies, Cormier, and Lerew can fill out the 5 spot (or whoever of those 3 doesn’t get traded for the new starter)…

By rb in kc

May 21, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

I never post just read and seriously I am wit hevery single person on here about andruw. I missed the game on friday because of rain and then tbs didn’t carry the games on saturday and sunday I wasted my whole day waiting for the game and then watched druw not even put a ball in play, that was frustrating. hope we get 2 of 3 from the metropolitians. and on the salty note, i love that guy, great AB yesterday but to trade him for a solid #3 would be ok with me

By Braves Fan Trapped In OR

May 21, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone-

Sorry I miss understood your quote…I think he probably would have. I think I am giving Bobby and Leo their due. Maddux played for great teams with a great coaching staff in Atlanta.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

“and on the salty note, i love that guy, great AB yesterday but to trade him for a solid #3 would be ok with me.”

Not sure if that would be okay with me unless this #3 starter is signed for real cheap for a long time or he is in his 2nd or 3rd year in the majors… Trading Salty for a #2 or #3 starter who will not be with us beyond this year is not an option in my opinion (Unless acquiring that starter gets us a World Series championship, but there is no way to guarantee that)…

By Please Andy

May 21, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

I honestly wish I had never seen Salty play. He’s a monster with unlimited upside in my opinion. The at bat in Boston yesterday with the bases loaded was one of the best ab’s I’ve seen from anyone this year! It would be truly painful to let him go.

If you can get a Harden or Willis for him, you have to pull the trigger. As of now, Salty has no position. If you can only get a #3 or 4 starter for him, that price is way too high so you keep him.

Andruw….where do you start? Will he snap out of it? Perhaps. But I want to spend that 17-18 mil next year on something other than Andruw. I think the team will be different without Druw, but there are lots of playoff teams that don’t have Andruw in Center. No reason the Braves can’t be one of those teams.

Andruw’s attitude this year has sealed it for me. He is struggling so bad he should be humble. He should be begging for help. He should be listening to anyone who is credible that may help. Instead, he is in denial and the more he struggles, the more stubborn he becomes.

No matter how anyone here or in the Braves organization wants to spin it, this IS NOT a winning attitude.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Dude, Again I have to ask-What in the world are the criteria you are using to decide if Reyes and Harrison are no more than #2 or #3 starters? What kind of crystal ball are you using? These guys are in AA. They have no ML experience. Even Tommy Glavine and John Smoltz lost 17 or 18 games when they came up. Would you have also believed them to be no more than 2 or 3 starters? There is absolutely NO WAY you have a clue. Besides, if you’re worried, why don’t you check out Thomas Hanson at A Rome. He has a 2.14 ERA in 7 starts and has struck out 55 batters while walking only 12. Where do you think he’ll fit in? Number 5 or no more than AA?

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

I recall reports of Maddux telling Leo he didn’t find Leo’s methods helpful. I think it was refering to Leo’s curt, vulgar barks he’d throw out there. When I read this story it more or less sounds as if Greg said, If you want to stand here and watch me prepare for my next start, be quiet.
The Braves system only developed one of the big three from Draft to Debut. Maddux was going to be a HOF no matter the team he landed on. So I think I’m siding with DonC on this one. But I think his point could be stretched to an even longer time frame than just 15 years. Hell, the big three came up in the 80’s. It’s been about 20 years since those three debuted.
I think we have a fine system, but, as far as I can tell, it’s producing one HOF pitcher every 50 years or so. I don’t know where that ranks against all the other teams, but it’s a little depressing. Maybe this is because we spent the 90’s spoiled with three of the best, and at least 2 others to complement that were above servicable while with us. It seemed everyone was a star. I think the majority of the credit for all that should go to those 3 starters more than Leo or Bobby. Maddux alone, every where he goes, is credited with helping a young guy throw better.
He bring intangibles you could say. The ability to lift an average guy to above average and so forth just from his own knowledge of the game and pitching.

By Henry

May 21, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

DOB, great column, as usual. The blogosphere is designed for overreaction, so people tend to make every loss a disaster and every win a championship. But the fact is, this past week was bad but it was preceded by a five game winning streak, and we may be in second, but we’ve still got one of the best records in baseball — and we OWN the Mets this year, so who’s worried?

Ok, all that being said, I have to ask you: have we released Mark Redman yet? Or are we waiting for him to lose one more game for us? I know we don’t like to rush the farmhands, but seriously, what’s the point of putting Redman back out there?

Henry

By Lew

May 21, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

DonC-In a perfect world (one in which Hampton had come back), Chuckie would have been a #4 starter this year, rather than a number 3. I think circumstances forced him into the role and he’s having a bit of a sophomore slump. I think most of his problems are mechanical and can be worked out. To limit him as to where in the rotation he may ever pitch does him a disservice, as it would any pitcher. Everyone expects all Braves farm hands to work into 1 or 2 starters. It just is totally unrealistic. There is such a lack of overpowering pitching anymore that it has become almost ludicrous. The way I see it, in today’s MLB, you are going to get offense and more offense. Everything from the height of the mound to the design of today’s facilities is anti-pitching, yet everyone gripes when pitchers get tagged. It’s almost a double standard. We all want a front line starter (and maybe we need one or two to contend with some of our competition), but there are damn few out there, much less available-especially when everyone is looking for the same thing.

By Jack

May 21, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

ITS NOT ANDREW JONES APPTITUDE——ITS HIS ATTITUDE. CATCH HIS NONCHALANT GRIN AFTER HE STRIKES OUT. THAT SILLY GRIN SAY SO WHAT I COULD CARE LESS.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

Now, I know he’s nothing great, but what about trading for Kyle Lohse of the Reds? The Reds are one of about 3 teams in the NL right now who are going to be guaranteed sellers in a month or two. And Lohse is a free agent after this season, so you know they’d love to deal him. I think we could get him for dirt cheap - maybe straight up for Martin Prado or Brayan Pena? Or since it’s the Reds they’d probably want bullpen help… Maybe Villareal or Yates?

I mean I know Lohse is nothing great (1-5 with a 4.75ERA right now); BUT, 5 of his 9 starts this year have been “quality” starts (at least 6IP with 3ER or less). Bottom line, he’s a better option than Davies, Lerew, or Redman and we wouldn’t have to give up Salty…

By ernesto

May 21, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

DON C. I would argue with Rosenthal that we have 2 #1s, 1 # 4 (James), a # 6 in Davies, and a high-teens in Redman.

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

Lew: I think too what might be an issue with the starters, or lack there of, is that young draftees know they have a faster route to the majors with more money and less chance of injury as sluggers than as pitchers. But all this could change. This next generation could flip it all upside down. There are a lot of really good younguns on the mound these days. In 2-5 years we could see the complete rebirth of the pitcher.

Regarding pitcher injuries, did anyone else read that tid bit on FoxSports (I think that’s where I saw it) about roid users? The majority of those busted are pitchers (Mariners are the most roid intensive AL team, Mets NL). All these pitching injuries over the past few years could be tied into the use of PHDs. Maybe once the system gets back to the good ol’ clean days of beer, hot dogs, and the occasional upper, the pitchers will last a little longer.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

DonC-Maybe Adam Harang, instead? About HOF pitchers-I just did a bit of research. Since 92, the past 15 years, the only pitchers inducted have been Sutter, Eckersley, Nolan, Sutton, Niekro, Jim Bunning, Carlton, Fingers and Seaver. The fact that with Glavine and Smoltz’s perceived inductions, that would give the Braves three HOF pitchers since 97 (not counting Maddux, who came to the bigs from elsewhere)-easily more than any other team. There just aren’t many HOF pitchers.

By Please Andy

May 21, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

Just saw Orel Hershiser on ESPN. He said what I said earlier in the blog. He said Andruw is in denial!!! lol

At least I’m not the only one saying that.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this

Tell me about it Lew. How much better would this rotation be right now if Hampton was here giving us innings similar to that of a Jeff Suppan or Matt Morris? We’d be at least 2 or 3 games better in the standings and our greatest weakness would be the #5 spot in the rotation, rather than #4 and #5…

By Lew

May 21, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

That’s interesting. Bud Selig just described the sale of the Braves by saying at least “he was finished with That foolishness”. He may have been talking about dealing with the tax implications of the Braves’ deal, but all he had to do to avoid it was to sell to an individual. What a Commisioner. The sale of a team is foolishness. Great.

By TennesseePaul

May 21, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

ernest: and a high-teens in Redman.

You give the man more credit than me. High-teens? I didn’t know one could rank ineffective little league pitchers, but I’d at least think it would be in the hunderd thousands if not closer to the far side of infinity.

I try to be level headed about the team, my expectations, and so forth, but when I see Redman’s name, image, or body anywhere my blood boils. I just don’t like this guy. I’m disappointed we spent anything on him. He should have been paying the Braves to pitch if he had to be anywhere near the Braves dugout to begin with.

Hate on Davies all you want guys, but I’d rather have him out there than Redman. Davies, James, Cormier, Lerew, Villarreal, all give me more reason to hope than Redman. I thought he’d be better in the pen, but he isn’t. He is a white flag and that just doesn’t go with that never-say-die approach we have flashed in a few games this year.

By THE BEAR

May 21, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

I have always looked on Andruw as a boy with a lot of talent. He has never been coachable in my opinion. And that spells “ignorance.” If he wants that big contract he had better listen. After all there are two more positions in that batting order he could occupy and there is always the bench. And what does he think that will do for his negotiating position at season’s end?

I hope he will see the light but I don’t think that is realistic.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 21, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

OK, I’m thinking Mets take 2 out of 3 from Atlanta. What do you guys think?

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

Lew it’s Aaron Harang and in order to get him we’d have to give up Salty plus Yates plus Escobar; and even then the Reds would laugh in our face… The guy is young, cheap, and came in 3rd in Cy-Young voting last year… My guess is that Harang and Homer Bailey are the only 2 “untouchable” guys on that 40 man roster.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 21, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

If we’re gonna play the IF game DonC here’s my if. If the Mets had Pedro we’d be 3 or 4 games better in the standings.

By MBATL

May 21, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this

Lew, agree wholeheartedly about the pitching. HOF’ers don’t grow on trees. I think what people MEAN to say is that we’re not developing a lot of #1 types… and that’s true.

On the other hand, we’ve always developed enough talent to be able to trade for the talent we need, or to afford to sign it.

On your other comments, that all Selig had to do to avoid it was to sell to an individual. I know baseball has some control over who buys teams, but I never heard that any individual had ponied up the $450 mil or so to buy the team. It was pretty much liberty or no one. Selig did what he could to insure that Liberty won’t rape the team of it’s talent (front office or on the field). What more could he have done?

By Lew

May 21, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

DonC -Sorry about messing up his name. The only reason it even came to mind was on XM Home Plate today, they were talking about trading Salty to the Reds for outfield help (which I think is absurd-I’d rather make HIM an outfielder). I never claimed it would be a doable trade, though-just wishful thinking.

By Duchess

May 21, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this

Andruw isn’t going to change until he hits rock bottom. He said he wants to “…do everything I can to help my team…”, yet he’s hurting it badly at the plate. Denial? Undoubtedly. There’s a whole lot more at work here than we are privy to. And it’s evident that his teammates are shaking their heads over him, as well. He’s so messed up I can’t help but wonder if he’ll ever get straightened out again. Too much mental stuff going on. Makes me wonder if the very best thing Bobby could do for him is to sit him on the bench.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

MBATL-No one ever ponied up the bucks because no one was given the opportunity to do so. There were at least three others (Blank, Dickey and Terwilliger?) who would have liked the chance to make the bid. The $450 mil price tag was hardly a secret. TW never gave them a chance. They wanted the stock. MLB could have vetoed the deal and opted for local ownership instead. They have that ability.

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

DOB I don’t know if you’re being generous to Davies,unfair to Sosa or both.Sosa is 3 and 0 with a 2.25 era. Davies is 1 and 2 with a 5.17 era. I couldn’t understand some of the derogatory remarks concerning Sosa on this site in spring and early season.Seriously ! what am I missing here? I remember Sosa being the best starter we had the second half of the 2005 season (or was it 2004 ?).Did he say bad things about,Atlanta,the south,your mothers ? Whatever the deal I give anybody their due,and from where I sit,Sosa is a better pitcher than Davies at this time (till proven other wise).

By The Grinch

May 21, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

MBATL, Arthur Blank offered exactly 450 million in cash, and Ron Terwilleger would likely have matched it if given the chance. They were both told by TW that the stock transfer was what they were more interested in, and therefore were not really in the running. That would’ve been a perfect time for Selig to step in, but he didn’t. He’s been found guilty by the High Court of the Grinch of the crime of 1st degree Douchbaggery.

By N8

May 21, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

Willy Wally

“That right there is why he is the greatest manager of his generation… If everyone had coaches, bosses, and fathers who thought and acted like that….”

If everybody had bosses that “acted” like that, then there would be absolutely ZERO accountability in the world.

Example:

You go in for surgery, a minor procedure, like say for instance…an ingrown toenail. :-)

The doctor accidentally cuts off your entire foot (ouch). When the press shows up after your lawyers tell them you’re holding a press conference, the surgeon’s boss responds to reporters questions with the following….

“Even though Dr. Chopoffalottafeet has been in a severe surgical slump as of late (he cut off 5 feet just this last sunday….in 5 attempts), we haven’t given up on him, we never have and never will.”

Yeah. Wouldn’t life be swell if every boss was as “forgiving”?

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 21, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

What….Lew’s not making any predictions about this weeks games against the Mets?? That’s strange, being that he so good at forseeing the future of team’s performance’s and he’s also a good judge of talent. Remember, Perez, Maine ect ect Lew??

By Joe Wilder

May 21, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Never posted to a blog before but have to blow off some steam.

It’s time that both Braves management and Andruw remember that he is just another employee. For his direct refusal to follow the “suggestions” of his manager and his hitting, he should be heavily fined and benched until his attitude is adjusted! Maybe after seeing what impact this has on his potential worth among teams interested in his services next year, Scott Boras might be able to get him to wake up and smell the roses. Regardless of his value in only one facet of his job performance, as a civilian he would be fired in any company I ever worked for.

By Treadway

May 21, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

*By NO CHOP ZONE

If we’re gonna play the IF game DonC here’s my if. If the Mets had Pedro we’d be 3 or 4 games better in the standings*

We? I didn’t know you played for the Mets. Didn’t see your name on the roster.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

May 21, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

Why not promote Buddy Carlyle? He’s looked good at AAA and anybody’s gotta be better than Redman.

By The Grinch

May 21, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, what you’re “missing” is the 2006 baseball season. Did you catch any of it? Jorge Sosa, Mike Remmlinger and Chris Reitsma were almost completely responsible for ending our division title streak. Remmy was too old to be piching, Reitsma was injured and wouldn’t tell (both of those could easily be hung on Bobby and JS), and Sosa just plain sucked from the very beginning until the very end. No explanations, no adjustments, nothing. You don’t come out there and spend a whole season torpedoing a proud franchise without incurring some rancor from its media and fan base. The fact that he’s pitching well now makes it even more maddening.

By parks

May 21, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this

NO CHOP, just make sure if the Braves win 2 out of 3 again, you don’t run and hide like you have in the prev meetings

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 7:59 PM | Link to this

The reason TW made the deal they did is about taxes.You pay on the sale not the purchase of stock, so to my layman’s eyes,they get at least a deferment of well over 150 million,and with the lawyers they employ maybe more.If anybody knows if they will only pay on the gains the stock may make and not the principle value please reply.

By DonCoburleone

May 21, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Mets lose 2 of 3 No Chop; now go play in the sewer

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

every loss a disaster and every win a championship…

On the money, my friend. Though that does bring to mind “every meal a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, I LOVE the Corps!” Get some of THAT into the old bloggers, and we’ll be good to go :-)

I got 7-5 that this is the week Sosa goes mushroom-cloud; 6-5 that this is the week Braves give some back to Perez; and Smoltz winning his 200th against Glavine is off the board. So, for a guy who preaches keeping things in perspective, guess I’m putting on the pink specs this week, LOL.

But seriously…Jorge Sosa? Please!

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 21, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

You got it Parks……

By Braves Fan behind Mets Lines

May 21, 2007 8:05 PM | Link to this

I think most agree that Andruw looks completely lost and that he is pressing. He also sounds like he is clueless. I have a crazy idea. It’s time for Scott Boras and Schuerholtz to work out his contract right now. It’s obvious that he is not probably not going to have the free agent year he was expecting, thus not the payoff. I bet if JS went to Andruw and his father, offered him another $2mil/yr, for 5 yrs, they would jump on it. Andruw would stop pressing about his contract and concentrate on doing what;s necessary at the plate vs. trying to pull every pitch regardless of where it is in (or out) of the strike zone.

By Ron

May 21, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

I think that Salty will probably be a beast in the upcoming years, and I would like to see him in Atlanta. If I traded Salty I would trade him for Arroyo, or Haren, or even Willis, but no way that I would trade him for Harden, when has he ever stayed healthy I cannot recall, or Burele a guy that will be a free agent at the end of the season, no way we should trade a guy like Salty for a rental player or an oft-injured player!!! I would give up Salty, Davies, Devine, Larew, and Escobar for Arroyo, and Haren!!! I would give up Salty and Devine for Willis, mainly because Willis is the most overrated pitcher in the game, most people think he is a #1 Starter, but more of a #2 Starter and he would be our #3 Starter, I just like Arroyo and Haren more than Willis, but I would take any one of them!!!

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

Hey, Grinch, what constitutes 2nd degree? LOL. We need some guidance here, man! Evaluating baseball talent is an ability held by many, but assigning douchebaggery degree is a skill known only to a few, LMAO

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

Grinch I didn’t miss the 2006 season any more than I missed Sosa’s excellent work in 05. The facts seem to suggest he’s pitching more in line with 05 than 06,is that so hard to comprehend or except ?

By MBATL

May 21, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

So if the deal was better for the seller (TW) by selling to Liberty, why should they be forced to take a less lucrative offer from someone else? (whether it’s cash or tax advantage doesn’t matter… a good deal is a good deal).

Sorry, I’m just not that panicked over corporate ownership (Braves have been corporately owned since about 1976, haven’t they?). I really trust Liberty (who will set a budget, retain McGuirk, and get out of the way) more than I would Arthur Blank (who has made a mess of the Falcons, in my opinion). But above all, TW took the best offer, and absent any evidence that it was “bad for baseball” I don’t see how Selig/MLB could interfere with two parties that wanted to do business.

By LeTwan Anthony

May 21, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this

LeTwan and Mama were talking today about Andruw, and Mama said maybe a pie would help Andruw get back to hitting again. Well, Andruw was looking like he’d had too many pies if you ask LeTwan - but Mama loves Andruw and she thinks a nice, home cooked pie may make Andruw feel better and play better. So, Mama is in the kitchen now baking a pie for Andruw. DOB, could you deliver this pie to Andruw for Mama? Please let LeTwan know and arrangements can be made. One thing LeTwan has noticed about Andruw is the wide, wide, stance that Andruw takes at every at-bat. There is a device that Andruw could be fitted for that would discourage such a wide stance but this device is not frequently used in baseball. LeTwan first learned of it when LeTwan was working with the CIA a few years back. Guaranteed to discourage a wide stance. Guaranteed. And with a shortened stance and a stride wouldn’t Andruw probably make contact again and drive the ball? Maybe Andruw can think about this while eating pie.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

Amen Brother Grinch. No Chop-I’ll make a prediction. No matter who wins what, you’ll still be here being a pain in the collective a$$ of every Braves’ fan-well past the point of logic or insanity.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

May 21, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

What would it take to get Arroyo? He’s signed through 2010 with an option for 2011. Not a rental player.

By Meanie

May 21, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this

Blogging from the porcelain throne…Sits a man known as NO CHOP ZONE…His comments are crass…As he then wipes his a*…With the same hand he rubs down his bone.

Oh how this man is a tool…Opens his mouth and looks like a fool…But he thinks he’s the man…So he smells the same hand…As he loves the scent of load and stool.

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this

MBATL, re Liberty Media, Malone is a very, very sharp guy who recognizes value. He won’t treat the Braves as a toy, as some non-corporate owner might. He’s not going to sit in the stands every night (or hit the blog!) and start writing checks at the first losing streak. But he has shown that he understands that different assets require different corporate mindsets. He’ll listen to budgetary reason, and rely on baseball people to run a baseball business. That’s good to me.

By Greg in TN

May 21, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this

Evening folks…

Nice lively discussion for an off night on the eve from another invasion from Gotham.

Can’t say I’m really surprised at the comments from ‘ol Bud. TW’s motivation to sell the team was for stock and to rid themselves of what they viewed as a non-core asset. Liberty’s motivation to buy the team was to minimize their tax liabilities (had Liberty simply sold their stock back to TW, the tax man would certainly get a healthy cut).

By Randall H.

May 21, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

About the Andruw Jones thing,now if he’s traded to an A.L. team for a great starter he may agree to be traded to a contender. This brings up the most amazing thing, Atlanta pro sports has the two most over rated pros in all of sports. IN CASE YOU CAN’T FIGURE THIS ONE OUT I’M REFERRING TO ANDRUW AND MICHAEL VICK!

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

ncscoots you guys make me almost root for Sosa, (but not quite). I just don’t carry the negative baggage concerning him some of you do.I hope he pitches well and loses 2 to 1.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

LeTwan-Just so the pie doesn’t come from Terry Pendleton. Andruw is somewhat leery of taking much of anything from TP-like advice. Not sure how he would react to a pie from Terry. Maybe advice plus a pie would work. Maybe food as a reinforcement WOULD be a good tactic.

By Greg in TN

May 21, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

MBATL and ncscoots,

Agreed and agreed. Corporate ownership has done well by Atlanta fans. Turner finally got it right when he stepped away and let the baseball folks make the decisions and he just wrote the checks. The Braves were fine with TW because Turner had a seat on their board and still wielded a considerable amount of influence until the last few years and as soon as he left the board, the die was cast.

Liberty won’t throw money at the team, and in my opinion, they really don’t have to do so. JS has proven even in the Turner years that he will not overpay like other GMs/Owners will do. As long as Liberty allows JS and Terry McGuirk flexibility to address needs, we’ll be just fine.

By Reconnoiter

May 21, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Meanie posts yet another disturbing view into his psyche. Dude, you need to seek professional help. Your fascination with male genitalia and feces is not normal.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

May 21, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

Any chance Julio Franco is a positive influence on Sosa? Consider: not good before 2005 & no Julio. They played together in 2005 & he was good; awful in 2006 & no Julio. Together again, and he seems to have returned to form.

By The Grinch

May 21, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

That was heartwarming, Meanie.

A-ville, I frankly DO find it hard to comprehend. The guy has a very live arm, no doubt (one of the things that makes his suckdom so frustrating). Unfortunately, he has Davies’ “despite my stuff I’m too skeered to throw strikes at the appropriate times” syndrome. In ‘05, he would walk the bases loaded damn near every inning he pitched, then somehow get out of it. In ‘06, he never got out of it. Both seasons caused highly elevated blood pressure in most Braves’ fans, and not in a good way. While I don’t deny he has a good fastball, I don’t see where he deserves “props” from DOB or any of us where Davies doesn’t (actually, neither of them do; both could have salvaged last year and didn’t, and Davies could step up anytime this year and help save it and hasn’t yet, though he’s doing a little better). These aren’t guys who are mastering their craft and falling short due to better equipped competition, these are guys who are young and strong and could dominate but suck beyond belief most of the time because they’re mush-heads.

Don’t look now, The Yankees are beating the Sox senseless with their Wang.

Scoots, I’ll elaborate further at a later date on the Grinch’s “Book of the Law.”

By Meanie

May 21, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

No fascination here bud. You’ll have to visit your local gay bar. Sorry…

By Please Andy

May 21, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

Rick Sutcliffe on the Yanks-Sox game said that “Andruw Jones yesterday looked like some guy they got out of the stands!” lol

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

Ranger, I harbor no ill will toward Sosa. That’s not it at all. He simply is a poor pitcher. He used up two years worth of Braves’ luck in 2005, and some posters here were BEGGING for him to be traded before the 2006 season. PLEADING. But no, it wasn’t to be.

Let me put it this way: if he’s above .500 at the end of year with more than 10 decisions, I should never again attempt to evaluate a pitcher. I will have been proven to have absolutely no clue, and will accept my fate.

By Robert

May 21, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Talk to any athlete who in an individual sport who has been a number one - and they will tell you that to be number one, the sport has to be EVERYTHING

That’s why a lot of guys, once they have spent years climbing the mountain, when they get to number one, it’s hard to stay there, and harder if not impossible to get back - there’s nothing left to achieve, and they realize there’s more to life, like enjoyment, like a family for instance - and once they make room for ANYTHING else, someone else, who is TOTALLY committed, will be the new number one

How does this relate to the Braves? More specifically, to Andruw?

Andruw is 30 - He cant get by purely on his talent and tools any more. He would need to forego EVERYTHING else, and dedicate himself to one thing - reconfiguring his SKILLS as a hitter

I see the streak bothering Andruw

I see the streak frustrating Andruw

I dont see it (even with the lure of a bog contract) bothering him or frustrating him enough to make the committment he would need to make

Is that wrong? No - it’s neither right nor wrong.

It’s Andruw’s life, Andruw’s career, and Andruw’s choice to make.

If I’m the Braves, I dont tell him what to do or not fo. I just make my decision about what’s best for the team

I think this comfort with where they are - with being close to great while having a wonderful lifestyle as well, is part of what has kept the Braves from TRUE glory and dynasty. The guy who tolerates this attitude on the team, and who the players adore partly for that very reason - there aint no need to mention him and ruin an otherwise beautiful evening here in Lawton Ok

A week from today, I’ll be out on the Plains for the start of a two week stormchasing trip - away from every day blogging. I’ll be curious where the Braves stand when I’m back to the grindstone June 9th

500 and change.

By Mike in 'Fretta

May 21, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

Just a personal pet peeve…stop referring to NY City as Gotham. It is incorrect because Gotham is supposed to be Chicago. Metropolis is NY. Batman and Superman exist in the same comic book world (from time to time Superman comes to Gotham to help Batman - and once they even fight each other..Frank Miller anyone???) in any event Gotham is Chicago and Metropolis is NY City.

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this

Greg I don’t want to make too much of the point on my 7:59 post,but we know liberty made the deal as a tax shelter.TW says they wanted the TW stock.What was the advantage over purchasing at market ? did they pay less than market ? or was it also a tax dodge by avoiding a cash windfall ?

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

Mike where can I find Hooterville ?

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

Mike, re Gotham, maybe you should mention that to Washington Irving, LOL

By Reconnoiter

May 21, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

Meanie, take a peak at the DSM-IV re coprophilia. Get some help.

By Assumed Name

May 21, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

It’s one thing when Braves fans on a blog or the local Atlanta media begin critiquing Andruw’s performance. It’s something else when the national sports media picks up on it. The national sports media has devoted a bit of time to Andruw’s woes today.

I don’t advocate any sports figure reading much into what the media says simply because they would go nuts if they did. In this case though, it would be nice if, on his off day, Andruw would read or see some of this stuff. Then maybe he would realize that there may indeed be something wrong instead of just having a bad series or being pitched “tough.”

By Mike in 'Fretta

May 21, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger,

Not sure about Hooterville, but I think Chipper Jones might be able to help you out with that one.

By journalist jimmy smith

May 21, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

yes, scoots beat this journalist to the washington irving mention. gotham is also frequently used in reference to cordele.

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Hooterville aka the big melons or second titty.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 21, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

What a beautiful poem Meanie. I guess your mother ran out of Dr Suess books and passed that one down from her father down to you…..lovely.

By Meanie

May 21, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

Hey Recon, check out KMA-B…Kiss My A* Beeyatch!

By Lew

May 21, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

A’Ville-As I understand it. TW received a huge chunk of TW stock that had been held by Liberty. In return, Liberty received a number of “publications” (I assume it was their wownership, thereof rather than a few books), the Braves and a billion dollars. The tax incentive was that they paid no tax on the Billion dollars (or anything else, due to a closing loophole). A Bil tax free! Figure that tax rates are capped at 30%, and they saved about $300 million on taxes-bare minimum. You think they could afford to throw a few mil at Braves’ payroll?

By Shaun

May 21, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

I don’t know if it’s Andruw’s character to listen to everyone or not. Maybe it is. I doubt that is the reason he’s struggling, but I could be wrong.

My guess is he’ll have a hot week or two and get his numbers close to where they normally are and all this will seems like ages ago.

By Mike in 'Fretta

May 21, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

I guess throughout time Gotham’s location has been somewhat ambiguous. Washington Irving kind of created Gotham out of the slums of NY, then it became like a twin city to Metropolis, but lately with Frank Miller Gotham has been more closely linked to Chicago than NY. The inspiration for the latest Batman Begins movie uses Chicago as the basis for Gotham and while some elements were added from other cities the most clear reference was Chicago.

Besides it doesn’t really make sense to have Metropolis and Gotham both being NY City with both superheroes in the same comic books. If you have ever been to Chicago it is a lot more like Gotham than NY City.

By ncscoots

May 21, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

jjs, Cordele? That right? I knew it had that big-city feel, but I was blissfully unaware…

By Meanie

May 21, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Hey look No Chop is back! Knew I smelled something…thought my dog had chit the rug.

Damn, said chit; guess it’s time to check into rehab.

By Greg in TN

May 21, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

A-ville,

It’s tough to make an apples-to-apples comparison of the deal since there are other assets involved other than the Braves, namely a grouping of magazines and also a large amount of cash ($960 million to be specific).

TW shares closed at $21.60 on the 16th, which was when the agreement was hammered out. Liberty surrendered 68.5 million shares which would have cost TW $1.479 billion on the open market by themselves. The team was valued at $450 million by agreement of both TW and Liberty, so subtracting that along with the $960 million in cash leaves the Leisure Arts subsidiary valued in the neighborhood of $69.6 million which I would think is a little ambitious. It looks that even with a variation here and there, to my layman’s view of the deal, TW and Liberty are close to square on this particular deal, even with what I would think is about $40 to $50 million difference.

As of March, TW’s net debt was $34 billion dollars and there has been considerable grumbling from their shareholders to improve their debt position, so I am certain that this deal was what TW wanted. It satisfied TW’s need to buy back shares without going even further into the hole they’ve dug with debt right now. Liberty got what they wanted, a low-tax or no tax transaction where they’re able to pick up valuable assets and cash.

By Lew

May 21, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

Scoots-You should have known it was Cordele when the Musk Oxen showed up. Global warming and whatnot.

By rb in kc

May 21, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

Don C- sorry for the confusion but “it would not be ok” with me if we traded Salty for a #3 that was only around for one year, no more JD Drew type deals for me

I would hate to see him go but if it yielded a quality #3, that was around for a couple of years and cheap that would be beneficial for the braves i believe. plus it would help james and davies pitch in some more natural positions 4 and 5 respectively.

a trade that i would like to kick around to see what you think bloggers is renteria as the main piece of a package, only because his value is high and escobar could replace him, if you could somehow pull this off, and keep salty, get a good arm to bolster the rotation and save some money to go after maybe ichiro to play center you gotta like that team for next year, just an idea although i think it’d be hard to get ichiro to sign with the bravos i initially thought up a traded like this to save money to resign andruw but after this year i can’t say with a straight face that is a move i would like

By Disgruntled Joe

May 21, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

Here’s a question…Is Andruw the least productive “clean-up” man in either league? The fact that he sees this as “no big deal” speaks volumes about his very passion for this game. I say find a convienient reason to DL him…say, 15 days FOR HAVING NO HEART! Go Andruw, and take that dog fighting, bird-flipping, embarrassment to the NFL and the City with you.

By stendec

May 21, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

Excuse me. Exactly how bad does it have to get before YOU consider it BAD? Sheesh!

By Ron

May 21, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

I am a Braves fan, and most know that, because of the posts I have done here, BUT I just hope we dont get swept by the Mets, Davies vs. Sosa, tossup, the way we have been going we probably lose, we will lose against Perez and Hope Smoltz can get it done Again, but that will be a close game. I just hope we win one, and stay afloat!!!

By Chase

May 21, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

The Brave’s weak spot is as apparent as last year’s (only a different spot—last half of the starting rotation). Time for a little imagination:

Trade Andrew for the best pitcher(s) we can get; starters or relievers. We can carry 14 pitchers, using two or three relievers for short stints (2-4 innings) in place of a 5th (or fourth!) starter. They go 6 or 7 innings before closers take over. This can work every 4 or 5 games because of diversity in the field—Salty plays first occasionally (catching 5th game) and shares “some” left with Diaz (to keep both bats in lineup), Harris to center, Johnson to outfield when absolutely needed (I feel okay with Frenchy to center if needed, too),… Any more imaginations out there? James seems to break down in the fourth and fifth inning. Limit him to three, send in a reliever. Hey! The game has changed over the years, hasn’t it—middle relievers, closers, etc. Comments?

By bruce

May 21, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

JJS did you see my 4:46 post?

By rb in kc

May 21, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

to add to my earlier post about trading renteria and freeing up money for next year while helping this year here’s a list of people we could go after (assumming andruw jones is gone, which if he keeps going like he is going everyone will hope for and if he heats up we won’t be able to afford him) so here we go

mark buerhle bartolo colon mike cameron (low cost cf replacement) jermaine dye (move frenchy to center) darin erstad (a gamer) freddy garcia (could be a bargain if he doesn’t get well) livan hernandez (can’t beat em join em, plus a real inning eater) tori hunter (won’t be cheap) corey patterson (might be able to get a discount) and jason jennings good middle of the rotation guy just some thoughts while getting ready for the series tomorrow

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Greg That still leaves TW with a huge tax savings by avoiding recieving cash (I think).Liberty had the loophole so their cash was clear of tax cost,so by getting stock without cash on TW’s end both sides screwed the treasury(I think).

By ronp

May 21, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

It’s pathetic watching Andruw hit…I can barely watch..BoSox knew how to pitch to him and he made no adjustments…Why?…I wonder if he’ll say “no big deal” when his market value drops in relation to his performance. I hope he doesn’t lose his glove…it’s the only thing that keeps him in the line-up.

By Meanie

May 21, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Chase that sounds great. Fourteen pitchers. Hmmm…That leaves 11 regulars, so 3 on the bench. Can’t use your backup catcher so you have use of two bench players. One pinch hitter and one pinch runner. No, wait…Hudson can pinch run and play some outfield. Wouldn’t be risking that much!!

Bruce for chrissakes man you really gonna point the schizo amateur comedian to a post from 5 hours ago? What a scrub. Unfortunately I’ve been to the armpit that is Cordele; there ain’t any Ugandans down there. Not any ALIVE anyway… might be some in ash form…

By joebrave

May 21, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

What we have here is a failure to communicate,Nochop your an IDIOT,you about one step from making me break one off on you boy,This here is a Braves blog,Bravos dujour,Tomahawk city,any fact you may present here boy lack a certain amount of credibility,Is there any end to your incansessant rantings,you spew with great retardation but never make much sense. Shaun, Dude please lose the man crush on A.J.,just don’t sound right coming from a guy,all this admiration what do you have,Fatal attraction to A.J.,bro. your starting to get about as redundant as Ol Robert,and his man crush on Bobby…

Wither,the storm blog denizens this too shall pass,once again the preposterious trades of a delusional dream,Bronson Arroyo Is Not Available,nowhere is it written,nowhere is it spoken but here, one more time,the only starters available at this time,are as follows: 1.J.Towers,2.T.Ohka.,3.A.Cook,4.M.Morris,and Mark Redman, that’s it for this very moment,pick your poison,me personally I take Towers for the up side,and call up Harrison and let him take his lumps and move forward……..

By serbok

May 21, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

lew excellent 6:46 posting! I couldnt agree more~ havent been on the blog as of late~ did read some of yesterdays!!! ROBERT was right on the mark again about BC/ I realise that robert aggravates the hell out of some of you guys~ But I tend to agree with him on BC/ though I do think he should give Bobby a bit more credit for the intangebles// however it is Really frustrating to watch a manager who the game of baseball has been so Good to~ continually screw up in 2 outta every 3 games with his on field decisions~ Everyone talks about AJ? WELL BC is supposed to be the boss? isnt he? Give us a break Bobby! QUIT letting your players Manage the game?

By Ron

May 21, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

I wish we could sign Ichiro in the Offseason, but that will never happen. I wonder how much he would command in the open market: Probably 16-20 Million per year for 5 years!!!

By bruce

May 21, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Dave:

Do you know whether Bobby ever green-lights hitters with 3-0 count to only swing if they get the exact pitch, speed and location? It seems like guys like Diaz would really benefit from that green-light… or other batters who look for particular pitches in particular counts/situations. I have not noticed any 3-0 hitters look like they have that type of green light. Thanks, Bruce

By Greg in TN

May 21, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

A-ville,

I agree. Everyone wins from TW and Liberty’s standpoint.

By Jimmy H.

May 21, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

DOB..after watching Andruw’s 5 strikeout performance at the plate yesterday I think I’m stating the obvious in hoping that he has hit absolute rock-bottom with his woes at the plate. It was so bad I was watching the telecast and predicting the last 2 appearances would be strikeouts before the at-bats were over. I would also agree with some of the other folks wishing that either Smoltz or Chipper pull him aside and offer some strong advice but I’m not sure that will happen either. You might also remember a few years ago (possibly in his first or second year in the majors) Bobby pulling him in the middle of a game for not hustling after a fly ball and that really seemed to get a message across to Andruw. I wonder if maybe it might take something like that to get the point across that he needs to change his approach at the plate. I think that sitting him for a few days might not be a bad idea either.

Saltalamacchia’s at bat yesterday during the later innings where he drew a walk was very impressive. I don’t know of too many young hitters either just up from the minors or being in the majors for a year or so that would have been that patient. Andruw should take a lesson from that at-bat.

Good night to all from Texas..

By David O'Brien

May 21, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Good to be back in warm, dry weather. Wouldn’t you know, it was beautiful, finally, this morning in Boston. Just in time to fly out. I swear, folks, for three days it was like a cruddy winter day in Atlanta, like our worst days….

TennPaul, entertaining post about what to do with all those guys. Agree with you on many or most….

Shaun, gotta hand it to you. You’re loyal. If you saw the games on this road trip and still think he’s not having a bad season, you get points for staying true to your opinion….

Oh, and figure the numbers, you’ll see it’ll take a hell of a lot more than a “hot week” to get his numbers close to where they usually are, at at least to get that batting average anywhere near .250…

As for the strikeouts … mind-boggling. For Andruw Jones to suddenly be striking out two and three times a game is something we’ve never seen before, not for this long a stretch at least….

Atlfan, why would you play Diaz at first base instead of Thorman? Thorman’s starting to really hit now. The guy’s in his first season, a rookie who’s doing quite well. Unless you’re talking about playing Diaz there just once in a while….

By joebrave

May 21, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Looks like the only way we get rid of A.J. is by benching him,kepping him benched,not even pinch hitting him until he demands a Trade,but there are probably mlbpa rules against that too..

Anyone know the RedSox/Yanks score?

By Wayne in Utah

May 21, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

Robert: Great 8:48 post on AJ. I agree. A professional athelete that can’t even keep himself in shape is not going to do the things necessary to keep sharp as the physical skills start to diminish.

I have thought all along that AJ was going to be a 5 million dollar a year player in 2-3 years. Maybe I was a little too optimistic.

By Wayne in Utah

May 21, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Ron: I think that Ichiro is on a similar downhill slide. Whoever gets him or AJ next year are going to probably be happy for a year or two, then regret the salary anvil around their necks.

Whaddya think??

By Chase

May 21, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Meanie, I’d rather have three on the bench than those last three in the rotation. It can work with 13, too. Think about shutting the opposition down with relievers and closers in those first five innings. Then demoralize the bastards with two innings of Moyer and… What do we have to lose?—Orr?—Woodward? I’d take a chance a try this over what we have now—at least for 20, 25 games. We stand to be a .500 team or worse as it stands now—W,W,L,L,L,W,W,L,L,L,W,W,L,L,L,……

By Chase

May 21, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Meanie, I’d rather have three on the bench than those last three in the rotation. It can work with 13, too. Think about shutting the opposition down with relievers and closers in those first five innings. Then demoralize the bastards with two innings of Moyer and… What do we have to lose?—Orr?—Woodward? I’d take a chance and try this over what we have now—at least for 20, 25 games. We stand to be a .500 team or worse as it stands now—W,W,L,L,L,W,W,L,L,L,W,W,L,L,L,……

By JasonInMaine

May 21, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Good to “see” you DOB! It appears the angels are finally willing to trade some of their pitching for some O. But, I don’t know what the braves have to offer…

By Duchess

May 21, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Wonder how Andruw would respond by being booed at Turner Field? Something has to get through to him. I still think it goes much deeper than any of us suspect. His responses to questions don’t even make sense - ain’t important, doesn’t matter, I’m slipping more than most, the way I’ve always played, can go 0 - 25, etc - something is up with him. Don’t know what it is.

All he knows baseball-wise is the Braves and Bobby Cox. Is the prospect of leaving the nest scaring him that badly? Insecurity can do strange things to a person. Could this be a baseball version of a panic attack?

By Chase

May 21, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, I remember the “pull Andruw” game and another and have watched him not live to his potential since. They traded LaRoche for slouchiness. Jones should have been a .330 hitter but never will. He needs to watch the way he swung wood the year he did hit .300 (‘98???).

By journalist jimmy smith

May 21, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

journalist has learned much while bird calling. sometimes the wrong bird shows up. undesirable birds will show up and journalist has learned to try and ignore these birds. many of these less desirable birds are ill-educated and vulgar. best to let them fly away and crap elsewhere. and now, will andruw not accept coaching? from a mvp? oh, the humanity! this is a job for hank aaron. bring hank down and let hank have a talk with andruw. hank can tell andruw that falling down when swinging the bat is to be discouraged. of course, if andruw is not open to advice from others andruw may spout the line favored by many braves.man-in-black.pie.bbq.bloggers: “your a idiot!” this should take back hank aaron somewhat. another good line is: “back off hank, what makes you think you can hit?” journalist has not read this one on the blog but thinks it may be useful if andruw gets testy with the hammer.

By Random

May 21, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Shaun asks: What defines a “rally situation”?

I was going with DOB’s definition — “Shaun, please explain to me how Francoeur is more a rally killer … With runners in scoring position and two outs, Andruw is blah-stats-blah. In those same situations, Francoeur is blah-stats-blah.”

You may not agree with the terminology (which is fine), but please do recognize that you and DOB were talking about totally different situations — he more specifically, and you more generally. Which led y’all to talking past, rather than to, each other. And that’s no good for any of us.

However you may want to define a “rally situation”, do it and compare stats on that basis. What are AJ’s and Francoeur’s stats with runners on first and second with one out? Who has the higher OBP in those situations? Higher OBP+SLG? Who has hit into more double pays? (I don’t know myself. You opened this line of inquiry — what have you got for us?) (I WOULD argue that a lead-off out could never be seriously considered a rally killer, since there was no rally to kill at the time of the out.)

What would you consider to be a “rally situation” (as a distinct subset of all plate appearances)? Whatever that is, give us comparative stats for those situations. You mention “In a situation where I’ve got a chance to score” — why don’t you go with this as a working definition of rally situation. Give us stats for AJ and Frenchy with RISP regardless of number of outs. How do they each stack up?

Just let’s all be talking on the same page about the same stuff, that’s all. Thanks for your reply.

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

I’ve had a list for the past week or so.This being an off night it seems like as good a time as any to post it.How do you pick the greatest starting pitcher of all time ? I decided one fair way is the percentage his career era was lower than the average for his time and league.So here is a short list of the best when viewed through this lens. 1. Lefty Grove 32.5% below 2. Walter Johnson 31.5% below 3.Roger Clemens 30.5% below 4. Greg Maddux 29% below,At this point in his career Pedro Martinez would be the runaway best at 37.4% below but he has too far to go to know how he’ll stand when he’s through.I know some will think Koufax,that would have been my guess but he wasn’t even close.Serbok one rough patch and you guys turn into Robert,don’t be such wussy’s

By Wayne in Utah

May 21, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Random (is that you, Shaun??): It sounds like you are trying to justify all of Shaun’s rantings. Understand that Shaun won’t even admit (or at least he wouldn’t a week ago) that Andruw’s swing is COMPLETELY broken. He wants to keep saying that because AJ walks some, then he is avoiding a lot of outs.

Possible new poem/song idea: Andruw’s slump, to the tune of “Ballad of Curtis Lowe” from Lynrd Skynrd. Keep on the watch out folks!!

By Wayne in Utah

May 21, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

Random (is that you, Shaun??): It sounds like you are trying to justify all of Shaun’s rantings. Understand that Shaun won’t even admit (or at least he wouldn’t a week ago) that Andruw’s swing is COMPLETELY broken. He wants to keep saying that because AJ walks some, then he is avoiding a lot of outs.

Possible new poem/song idea: Andruw’s slump, to the tune of “Ballad of Curtis Lowe” from Lynrd Skynrd. Keep on the watch out folks!!

By Ron

May 21, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

Duchess, Andruw does not have to leave in the Offseason, he could take a fair deal like Carpenter, and Oswalt did, they got an extension with their clubs with club friendly deals, I know Andruw did it once, but he can do it again if he did not want to go for the BIG BUCKS!!! Cant blame him for goin after the big bucks. The point is he can stay if he wants to stay!!!

By David O'Brien

May 21, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

Bruce, “exact pitch, speed and location”? That would be highly presumptious, to assume a hitter could be told to recognize a pitch meeting those specifications on 3-0, and to swing only if he got it. Doesn’t happen like that.

Some guys are given the hit away sign on 3-0 if they get a good pitch, depending on the situation, what the pitcher’s control has been like, and most of all, who the hitter is and what he’s capable of doing.

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Chase Laroche was traded for Gonzo,you guys need to relax.That said, Andruw doesn’t know whether to sh** or go blind,so maybe he could just close one eye and fart.But seriously folks maybe a little rest is in order,say two or three games.That time could be used by TP to help AJ re-focus. I don’t see the value in painting it as punishment though.

By serbok

May 21, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

By A-ville Ranger Ranger~ all things being relative~ and regardless of strat-o-matics statistics~ I really dont “feel” there is a way to judge pro athletes value with statistics~ lats season I only read the blog~ wasnt a poster~ this year obviously I decided to blog~ I have always agreed with Robert~ its just there for all to see? Except maybe statisticians? lol, as stats dont tell the whole story, I actually think Bobby held his head above water over the last 3 games~lol~ but for a future HOF manager that just dont get it? BC is not a very good field manager~ never has been~ and will never be one:o( But I do think Bobby brings things to the team that are very much indefinable (intangible} that should not be overlooked! Cant really think of anyone else managing the team that Might be better tho~hm~ maybe Bobby Valentine? LOL GO BRAVES!

By serbok

May 21, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

some of you guys are gonna skewer me for this one???? LOL But! Willie Randolph is a MUCH better mgr than Bobby~ on the field anyway~ Hard to know why BC is considered the way he is~ But he is!!!! considered one of the best of All Time~ BTW Meanie?????????????? The Tildebeest is back! lmao~ thanx for my future handle? lol

By Jimmy H.

May 21, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

Chase..I admit to only recalling 1 game that Andruw got pulled due to lack of effort and don’t recall the other game you refer to where he got pulled. I don’t disagree that Andruw should be a better hitter for average and contact than he has been in his career so far.

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

Serbok I disagree with some moves BC makes,but to pretend I know the job better than one of the most successful managers in history would be a joke.Infer what you will from this.

By A-ville Ranger

May 21, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

Serbok here’s two stats 0 and 1 and 1 and 0.Which of these catches your fancy ? BC is considered a great manager because he’s won many more times than he’s lost over a long period of time.It ain’t a subjective thing people.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 21, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss has not always been on peaceful terms with joebrave—but I have come to admire joebrave’s hard-nosed bulldoggedness when he is doing battle with the slick-@ssed mutt fans…and today joebrave has introduced the blog to a couple new words never before seen here, that I am aware of—“incansessant” and “preposterious”…damned if I know what they mean, and I possess a pretty good vocabulary, but they sure did sound good within the context with which he utilized them!…

Robert—you didn’t do a half bad job today—came thru the Burger Queen drive up window, got my double cheeseburger with no pickle, medium fries, and large vanilla shake, with extra napkins, all in record time, didn’t have to repeat my order 4 or 5 times before you got it right, and even got the correct change back…Damn good job Robert!…and I see that you even got caveman22 a job there…Hell! ol’ caveman will get used to wearing that Hamburglar outfit, in the hot sun, in no time all…

Shaun—do you have a job?—if so, you’re employer is really getting the shaft with you blogging all damn day!…

By Wayne in Utah

May 22, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

Ballad of Andruw Jones

Well I used to wake the mornin, before the rooster crowed Searchin for soda bottles to get myself some dough Brought em down to the corner, down to the country store Cash em in and give my money to a man named Andruw Jones

Well Andruw was a bat man with a pull hitting style When the pitcher would mess one up, he’d hit that ball a mile. He used to own and old hickory, when he’d swing he’d make a breeze I’d lay down my ticket money and he’d whiff all day for me

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

He looked to be 40, maybe I was 10 Momma used to whoop me, but I’d go see him again. I’d clap my hands, tomahawk chop, then I’d stomp my feet
He’d strike out a time or two and have another Krispy Kreme.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough Bloggers said he was useless, them bloggers all were fools Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

On the day that he whiffed five times, everybody blogged to say “If he woulda hit to right, he’d won that game today!” Well he might have been famous, he could go get the ball. And that day in Beantown, I think he hit the wall.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

By Calvin

May 22, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

I’ve always been a Andruw Jones fans. However, with his recent comments that he will always be a pull hitter and no one can change him(paraphrasing), he has turned out to be just like a lot of the selfish “me, me” type of players out there. You know the ones that refuse to listen to anyone about their approach to hitting and will go done in a blaze of glory than to change their approach and perhaps even help the team. He may end up with 30-40 HR’s and 100-110 rbi. However, his refusal to even think about the opposite field just reinforces the fact that he doesn’t belong on the Atlanta Braves and I will be glad when he is gone. I’ll miss the Gold Glove defense but I won’t miss the unwillingness to change his approach to swatting at any and everything that is thrown at the plate.

By A-ville Ranger

May 22, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

Time for homework,night all!

By Wayne in Utah

May 22, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this

SJA: I thought you were going to put in a good word for me down at the Burger Queen with Robert for a job. I think I could handle that, so long as I could get my medications regularly!

Come on man, give a brother a “try-on”

By test

May 22, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

2 of 3 from the Mets will cure our bloggin blues! Throw in a couple of AJ homers and our confidence returns!

By serbok

May 22, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

LMAO!!!! Bro~ All I’m sayin is, that BC has been given the BEST talent ANY manager could Ever even dream of? 1 World SEries championship? C’mon~ dont you see any correlation to 3 HOF pitchers 15 post season appearances? NOT to mention Chipper? and my goodness gracious! Some of the Most talented BB players to ever play the game? THE REal genious as I’m sure someone? must agree? Is JS? The guy is The Best! GM in maybe history? Please ak AJ to apologize to Bobby and volenteer to bat 6th? cuz Bobby ain’t gonna do it without AJ’s permission:o(

By Wayne in Utah

May 22, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this

Gotta try again with better spacing.

Ballad of Andruw Jones

Well I used to wake the mornin, before the rooster crowed

Searchin for soda bottles to get myself some dough

Brought em down to the corner, down to the country store

Cash em in and give my money to a man named Andruw Jones

Well Andruw was a bat man with a pull hitting style

When the pitcher would mess one up, he’d hit that ball a mile.

He used to own and old hickory, when he’d swing he’d make a breeze

I’d lay down my ticket money and he’d whiff all day for me

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones

Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough

Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools

Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

He looked to be 40, maybe I was 10

Momma used to whoop me, but I’d go see him again.

I’d clap my hands, tomahawk chop, then I’d stomp my feet

He’d strike out a time or two and have another Krispy Kreme.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones

Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough

Bloggers said he was useless, them bloggers all were fools

Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

On the day that he whiffed five times, everybody blogged to say

“If he woulda hit to right, he’d won that game today!”

Well he might have been famous, he could go get the ball.

And that day in Beantown, I think he hit the wall.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones

Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough

Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools

Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

By Ron

May 22, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this

That was good SJA, I was laughin real hard after that post!!! That was also good Wayne in Utah!!! Wayne in Utah, do a Ballad of Mutt Fans!!! That would be funny as HELL!!!

By serbok

May 22, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You do realize? he’s gonna be Free as a bird? lol Let him go!

By IlliniBrave

May 22, 2007 12:45 AM | Link to this

Wayne: Dude, you have frickin way too much time on your hands!!!

Also, what in the hell is your point? Can you just cut to the chase - do you hate AJ like almost everyone else on the planet (or at least on this blog)? I agree that he sucks and I have wanted him traded away for the past two years - esp after that 2005 season which overinflated his value. The only guys worth $15M plus are four-to-five-tool players - like Pujols, A-Rod, Jeter, Vlad, etc. And right now it looks like the only tools Andruw is using are his fork and spoon! But the reality is he ain’t goin nowhere until the end of the season. So let’s all agree that he is driving us nuts and we wish he were banished to a little league team (or a buffet table), and then MOVE ON FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!

By serbok

May 22, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

have the feeling! (good feeling” I’m gonna regret my last statement, AJ will come around~ and carry the team, as usual:o) The guy’s just really a p**, arrogance? or stupidity? which one?

By Wayne in Utah

May 22, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this

serbok: if you love something, set it free……we must REALLY love AJ.

Ron: What tune could I do the Mutts Ballad to?? (maybe the Beverly Hillbillies theme?) Come listen to a story bout a man named Omar, big shot GM gonna takes his team FAR,…….gotta work on it another day.

By Wayne in Utah

May 22, 2007 1:05 AM | Link to this

IlliniBrave: First question is where in Illinois? I lived 2 years in Decatur in mid 90’s.

Second Question (statement actually): No, I don’t HATE Andruw. I wish he would grow up enough to listen to those with wise counsel around him, and have a killer year, and then go on to another team for the reasons you mention.

Third Statement: Man, you and lots of others on this blog have got to lighten up! Life is too short to get all tied up in knots over a game. I take a song lyrics and spend 20 minutes on it tonight, and now you are telling me I have too much time on my hands. It is 3 hours earlier where I am now (10pm). So, I like to relax sometime and read the blogs. I probably work more hours than 90% of the bloggers here.

Last Statement: My point is this: Why not have some fun with this Andruw thing, cause it is getting WAY too serious. I have stated on other posts that the Braves should rest him for 3-5 games, and give him a chance to get his game back. If he is still struggling in mid June, sit him down indefinitely, or release him. I was also poking a bit of fun at Shaun. (out avoider thing) I also think DOB likes Skynrd too.

Hope that answers your questions. Again, what city in IL?

By Cut the fat already !

May 22, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this

Pete Orr is a waste of a roster spot. Mark Redman is a sick joke at best. Do the Braves actually think they can compete with the N.Y. Mets while they have this garbage on their roster ?

By Wayne in Utah (temporarily in So Cal)

May 22, 2007 1:19 AM | Link to this

Time to turn in…..will the midnight poet reach his audience in the early morning blogosphere?

as another would say; oh, the humanity…..

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 22, 2007 1:21 AM | Link to this

Wayne in the Ute—You will have to take it up with Robert as far as obtaining any type of employment with Burger Queen…you see Robert is bucking for a management position with that company, and has a great amount of pull with the Burger Queen brass at the present time…so be nice to Robert…but I must inform you, and I hope this doesn’t discourage you or take all the wind out of your sails as far as trying to nail a job…but caveman22 has been hired as the Hamburglar, and is doing quite well in the Hamburglar outfit so far. Also, word on the street is, that caveman has great wrist flexibility, which is a plus as far as “flipping the beef” goes…

Additionally, word on the street has it that a certain pull hitting, out avoider has also applied for a job at Burger Queen because he hasn’t been very successful as far as pull hitting or out avoiding is concerned with his present employer, however he is too hefty to fit into the Hamburglar outfit, so he will be no threat whatsoever to caveman’s job security. So you will be facing some pretty stiff competition, but hang in there, you just never know…

By The Grinch

May 22, 2007 1:28 AM | Link to this

Wayne, that was well done and freakin’ hilarious. Kudos to you. Someone give me a popular tune and I’ ll do the Mets theme.

By jed

May 22, 2007 1:34 AM | Link to this

a few points:

—SJA: very funny post on JoeBrave. dude scares me. he went off on a post a week ago that, well, it was supposed to be patriotic, but it just came off like a rabid rottweiler frothing at the mouth after overdosing on crank. no offense, mind you, joebrave…

—those of you posting that you see andruw partying every night in buckhead need to either put up some substantial allegations here or shut the hell up. this “oh andruw’s drunk every night” talk is coming off like girly gossip. it’s cowardly, actually. if you’ve got something real to say, say it.

—one of the best quotes i read on this blog today said essentially that andruw’s poor season isnt what’s going to hurt him at contract time. what’s gonna hurt him is his attitude about it—the things he’s saying about it.
great point. i couldnt agree more.

By Bravo Nam

May 22, 2007 1:41 AM | Link to this

Respect His Loyalty

People can say what they like about Bobby Cox- prone to hyperbole, makes some bone headed decisions, misreads some situations- but he can never be accused of a lack of loyalty. After yesterday’s match, when nearly every blogger on the man in black was sticking the fork into AJ, journalists and media types were criticising him, opposition players were sniggering, and some of AJs team-mates were shaking their heads, Cox was asked about AJ’s performance. Instead of distancing himself (like a number of other classless Managers have done in the past with their players) or hanging AJ out to dry, BC basically said that he’s never stopped believing in AJ and never will.

That my friends is loyalty- might be blind loyalty- but loyal and courageous it is. BC may not be one of the great tacticians of the game, but the reason he is one of the greatest managers ever is that he knows how to hold a team together and help them believe in themselves, even when everyone else has given up on them- and don’t think for one moment players don’t read comments BC makes like the one yesterday- and hence the reason they play harder for him than possibly any manager who has ever lived.

Insidious

Despite the overwhelming majority of bloggers on here rightfully disagreeing with Robert’s diatribes and one man mission to get rid of Cox, I have noticed over the past three months an insidious pattern creeping onto the blog. It seems as though Robert’s antics are working at a very latent level…bloggers who in the past would’ve looked at other factors for Braves’ failures/losses, now tend to make a kneejerk reaction and blame Cox for most of their losses. While I acknowledge that some of their losses have been due to poor management decisions, it has been dumbfounding reading some of the asinine remarks made about why the Braves lost because of BC…I suggest that some of us without being fully aware of it are being led along the anti Cox path by Robert…and in doing so showing their complete lack of understanding of the game and appreciation of its complexities.

AJ

I’m as annoyed with AJ’s arrogant and stubborn approach to his hitting as anyone. But, I agree with DOB- I’ve got a feeling that we’re going to see some breakout performances from him this week- in spite of himself and the rest of us!

By IlliniBrave

May 22, 2007 1:41 AM | Link to this

Wayne:

C-U - Home of the (politically incorrect) Fighting Illini!

And I didn’t mean to come across so harsh - sorry. But man, 20 minutes - wow, it would have taken me hours to come up with lyrics that rhyme and dis Andruw and mirror a known rock song all at the same time.

As for my main point, I guess the only thing I’m more sick of at this point than Andruw Jones is blogging about how sick we are of Andruw Jones. I’m ready for a new topic! Oh, and let’s not get Robert going about his bestiality/donkey fetish with Bobby Cox, because I’m sick of that too.

Here are a couple of suggestions:

1. What do you do with a “franchise” catcher who you just locked up for the next six years and another “franchise” catcher who costs a fraction of that amount and appears ready to play with the big boys?

2. What do you do with a leadoff man who started hot (one of the top 3 in OBP) but now has cooled off and doesn’t get on base as much? Do you try out a journeyman batting near .400, with serious wheels?

3. What do you do with a high-salaried middle-aged shortstop, having perhaps his best season ever at the plate? Does he have more value on the trading block, or with another couple of years added onto his contract?

These seem to be the tougher questions. We don’t need two catchers, we definitely need a reliable leadoff man, and we need to make wise decisions about how we spend our money on aging players like Renteria (and AJ and Chipper and Hudson and Wickman). We blew a cool $2M on a worn-out Wilson who was at best a utilityman.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 22, 2007 1:45 AM | Link to this

“Mad Hatter” by Lynyrd Skynyrd…

By jed

May 22, 2007 1:56 AM | Link to this

illini—

1. keep mccann behind the plate. put salty at 1b or LF, eventually.

2. leave it be for right now. you cant jerk people around because they get in a brief slump. kj’s not a natural lead-off hitter but he’s done fine. plus, willie harris is in a platoon. why have a platoon player as your leadoff hitter?

3. keep renteria. this team needs his consistency.

By IlliniBrave

May 22, 2007 2:16 AM | Link to this

Jed:

1. What if we trade McCann for serious pitching prospects, then use the freed-up cash to help sign an ace - e.g., Zambrano.

2. But should Willie platoon? I like Diaz and all, but I’d rather see what Willie could do playing every day. He just brings so much to the game.

3. I totally agree, even if it means we have to spend more. He’s one of only four guys that are legitimate All-Star caliber right now (along with Chipper, McCann, and Frenchy).

By serbok

May 22, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this

WAYNE~ how ‘bout somewhere over the rainbow? All kindsa~ material there? just a thought man~ The “pen is mightier than the sword?) unless of course, ya have BC figuring out what a “Pen” is? LOL

By serbok

May 22, 2007 2:55 AM | Link to this

IlliniBrave Ya really think there are not ANY serious pitching prospects out there? I mean~ Trade McCann? I just dont see it~ The only “prospect” I can see is Willis. not for McCann tho! Personaly, I think the braves should stand “Pat” of course ‘till JS freaks us out again? LOL which will happen:o)

By Random

May 22, 2007 3:00 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah: “Random: It sounds like you are trying to justify all of Shaun’s rantings.”

Not at all, Wayne — far from it. While giving him the benefit of the doubt to some extent, I’m just the latest in the long line of folks asking him to put up or shut up. (I realize there’s an even longer line of folks that would be satisfied with nothing less than the latter.)

Here’s what I posted on the previous blog:

“Shaun:‘If outs don’t kill rallies, what does?’

“As to “AJ the Rally Killer”, DOB and Shaun are talking apples and oranges (hurling them at each other, actually).

“Shaun says that AJ’s less likely than Francoeur to make an out in all situations (ie, AJ has a higher overall OBP), therefore AJ’s less of a rally killer than Frenchy.

“DOB says (in part) that AJ’s more likely than Francoeur to make an out in rally situations* (ie, RISP w/ 2 outs), therefore AJ’s more* of a rally killer than Frenchy.

“DOB, of course, is right. Apples to apples, AJ’s OBP in rally situations is .455 (based on DOB’s 1:38 PM stats). Francoeur’s OBP in rally situations is .531. AJ has been (see below) the bigger rally killer of the two.

“So IMO Shaun’s question above is properly answered [as follows]: not all outs kill rallies, only outs in rally situations kill rallies.

“As for DOB’s implicit contention that Francoeur is significantly more productive in rally situations than is AJ, a comparison of the two’s OBP+SLG averages in rally situations might be appropriate (though DOB might prefer SLG alone).

“All the above have been DESCRIPTIVE stats — numerical pictures of actual past performance. I suspect that Shaun is more concerned with PREDICTIVE stats — using those numerical pictures to project future performance. And he may be right to assume that past overall OBP is a valid predictor for not just future overall OBP, but also for OBP in rally situations. I think he’s wrong, though — what better predictor of future OBP in rally situations could there be than actual past OBP in rally situations?”

As you predicted above, Shaun’s reply was fairly nonresponsive. Thanks.

By Loyalty is a two way street

May 22, 2007 3:07 AM | Link to this

Cox is loyal to his players. He is also to blame when those players fail to live up to that loyalty by being a total jacka$$ at the plate and I’m referring to AJ. Cox has never instilled a sense of urgency or discipline in the clubhouse. He is a great manager in the sense that he allows players to flourish on their own and he is always such a positive influence. Bobby Cox is also his own worst enemy , he is a great manager but a poor tactician and when there is a need to kick some tail in th clubhouse he holds no one accountable other than himself. Cox has an immense amount of patience stemming from his more than twnety-five years of managing in the bigs but when push comes to shove he simply waits to long before making a decision. I’m referring to his continually leaving his starters in to long before going to the bullpen , he waited to long in moving AJ out of the clean up spot , he stubbornly clung to his platoon system at 1B even though Thorman deserved to be the starter and Wilson was a bust. Cox has not been the same manager since Leo left , the two of them were together for fifteen years. That dynamic has changed the way Cox does his job and I’m not sure if it has been for the better so far. Bobby Cox and his legacy will continue to be in question until he wins another championship in Atlanta.

By serbok

May 22, 2007 3:23 AM | Link to this

Loyalty is a two way street very well put man!!!!!!!!!!!! It IS 2 WAY street~ Andrew IS such an a*******hole for not respecting his teammates or Bobby! some bloggers have questioned whether or not it may be something deeper? personal probs~etc….. that might be it~but I kinda doubt it. The guy is just acting like a met player! Really is a shame~ Is AJ really this stupid? I’ve always liked AJ, an he desrves the loyalty BC is giving him~ Dropping him in the batting order Should have happened 3 weeks ago~ Why direspect your manager and hitting coach? I think he is just not the sharpest spoon in the china? cabinet?

By berigan

May 22, 2007 5:03 AM | Link to this

I just had a funny thought. Well, not really that funny. Remember how much we all hated Jorge Sosa last year? How would you all feel about a starter who had an era half of what Redman’s is? Jorge Sosa, 2006 version. The 2007 version is about 1/5 the ERA of Redman. YIKES!!!! Well, at least it wasn’t just us who gave up on him, remember, the pitching starved Cards did as well….

Now, let’s beat the living Cr*p out of him tonight!!! Oh wait, have we ever faced Sosa before??? Oh-uh…..

By Bravo Nam

May 22, 2007 6:23 AM | Link to this

Loyalty is a two way street

You made one of the best points about Cox I’ve ever read: “…he holds no one accountable other than himself”…an extremely admirable quality, but unfortunately it sometimes undermines all the good work he does do.

By bruce

May 22, 2007 7:10 AM | Link to this

Dave,

Sorry, I should have been more specific… I am not recalling any time where I thought, wow, the Braves hitter had the hit sign on 3-0 and with RISP… my example should have been giving Diaz a hit sign to hit if he gets the pitch he is looking for, say an inside fastball, maybe that is the qualification to call it a good pitch to hit… but it seems that mostly there is a bat on the shoulder demeanor on 3-0 counts. In particular again, I thought I understoodd from you that Matt goes up looking for the first pitch to be a particular pitch, say again inside fastball and plans to swing if he thinks that is what it is which is why sometimes on first pitch he looks so bad or gets a hit. My thought is to apply the same principle on 3-0 counts especially with RISP. That does not seem to happen, I can not recall it, maybe Francoeur. Additionally, if our hitters gave the appearance of having the hit sign more often (aggressive looking and possibly a fake check-swing)instead of the obvious take look, then pitchers would have more pressure not to groove a fastball down the middle. Thanks, Bruce

By Dan

May 22, 2007 7:50 AM | Link to this

There are three solutions to the Andruw situation: (1) trade him, (2) bench him, or (3) send him to the minors til he starts showing he can hit again. His power and patience evaporated in direct proportion to the 30 pounds he took off last winter — it was like Samson cutting his hair and losing his strength. Couple that with the contract situation, plus Andruw’s aversion to coaching, and you have a good-field, no-hit player who is killing his team’s chances. Bring up Gregor Blanco, put him at the top of the lineup, and let him do to opponents what Jose Reyes does for the Mets. Overpaid, sullen crybabies do not fit in the Atlanta clubhouse. Not if they want to win, anyway.

By Lee

May 22, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this

This little piece was in one of Ken Rosenthal’s latest articles on Fox Sports.

The Braves’ biggest concern is their rotation depth; one scout says they’ve got a No. 1 starter (John Smoltz), a 1A (Tim Hudson) and three No. 5s. However, the team’s decision to release first baseman Craig Wilson to create more playing time for catcher/first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia ultimately could lead to a trade for a starter.

By Summerteeth

May 22, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

I think Andruw is hurt and is hiding it. I bet itis his back and he doesn’t want anyone to know aboutit during his contract year.

By Savannah Guy

May 22, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

DOB, nice blog. This blog needed a change of direction and perspective after this past week. Nice to see a bunch of fresh faces and perspectives here…before Shaun and N8 invariably took over and turned the blog into the 2459th debate over Andruw’s stats and “out avoidance”.

Back to Braves: DOB, although it is apparent that you are crossing some fingers and toes with your cautious optimism about the Bravos current situation. Beside, it’s not the record and current 2.5 games back that we need to be concerned about, it’s the trend. We are trending in the opposite direction than we want to and, if we don’t get a no. 3 starter to take us late in games, all the AJ flailing, Paronto slipping, Gonzo and Wicky hurting issues will be just footnotes to a bad year.

Ok, glass half empty, I know. We do (almost) have the potential to be a contender this year if everyone is hitting on all cylinders…which never or rarely happens throughout the year in sports. To get us over the top of the “potential” bubble, we just need some good luck.

Good luck in this case being defined as a solid ace at the 3 spot and Gonzo’s healthy return. That takes pressure off of James, Davies, Huddy, Smoltz…hell, maybe even the wiffin’ Adroid.

Just a little headline jab: To say “it ain’t that bad” reminded me a bit of “so, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Dan-We can’t trade Andruw. How many times does it need to be said? He won’t accept a trade. If he won’t change his mind about acceptance of advice and being a pull hitter, do you think he will change his mind about a trade? It’s just time to give that scenario a rest. You can’t send him to the minors-it would be the same as releasing him. Benching him may help, from the point of view that he’s hurting a needs a rest (he did take a nasty slip in the field on Saturday). However, all it may do is p!$$ him off and make him more determined to do his own thing. As far as the weight loss-Krispy Kremes are the answer? Why not? It’s as cheap a fix as anything. It may be worth a try. It wqould certainly keep the smile on his face. Actually, you (and everyone else)might as well just lighten up. Zen out. It will happen as it will happen. He’ll get hot. After all-the embarrassment is his, y’all, it doesn’t reflect on you. Don’t take it so personally that he’s not reading the blog and listening to your vitriol. Serbok-The sharpest spoon in the cabinet-Great blog line. We may see it again.

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Random, Wayne in Utah, DOB, TennPaul,

I’m not trying to be a loyalist or trying to disagree for the sake of disagreement. There’s no doubt Andruw is struggling, especially recently. (At least earlier in the season he was drawing walks and getting hits a little more often. Now he hasn’t really done either in over a week.)

I just have a hard time believing that Andruw’s struggles are because of the reasons people throw out there—he’s not pulling the ball or he doesn’t listen to anyone’s advice—which leads me to believe he’ll right himself sometime fairly soon.

I don’t believe his struggles are due to his failure to pull the ball because he’s never pulled the ball, even in his best seasons.

I don’t believe his struggles are due to him not listening because I’m pretty sure if he doesn’t listen now he didn’t listen when he was going good. Also, he’s been in the majors for over 10 years and he’s 30. I think he would have been less likely to listen in years past, when he was playing well, than now.

I think his struggles are just him pressing too much, injury or just a fluky thing, or all of the above. I do not think it’s due to something mechanical.

If it’s injury, obviously I think the solution is to give him a day off or two or three.

If it’s him pressing too much and/or something extremely fluky, I think the Braves have no choice but to keep running him out there. There is no way he’s really this bad.

By Shagger

May 22, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

I think I have the key to Druw’s woes. Ever since Scalp ‘em adorned him as the greatest center fielder since the universe was formed he had gone south. He definitely reads the blog and is feeling a lot of pressure to come through and it is closing the walls in on him.

I think Scalp em should remove the hex and agree that there are a few names that might show up before Druw’s on the list like, perhaps Mays, Mantle, DiMaggio, and Cobb.

By Braveheart

May 22, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Why can’t it just simply be that he has fallen into some really bad habits as a hitter that have caused him to be mechanically unsound as a hitter, thereby creating less opportunities for success as a hitter. TP could not make it more clear that he is not listening to those who want to offer advice to help him out. DOB and Mark Bowman have made it clear that there are very frustrated grumblings around the team about his approach at the plate and his unwillingness to adjust and listen. DOB and Bowman have made it clear that most teammates are not willing to throw him under the bus on the record. You have to read between the lines.

“Right now, there are just too many different things that [pitchers] can do to him,” Smoltz said. “Until he makes some adjustments, then the pitchers aren’t going to have to make any adjustments.” That is Smoltz saying he would never have a chance to get a hit off me until he made the necessary adjustments. I think I am going to trust Smoltz and TP’s word for it more than Shaun’s biased speculation and his stubborn refusal to admit that he is wrong in any way.

By N8

May 22, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

Bravo Nam

“I’m as annoyed with AJ’s arrogant and stubborn approach to his hitting as anyone. But, I agree with DOB- I’ve got a feeling that we’re going to see some breakout performances from him this week- in spite of himself and the rest of us!”

I was thinking the same thing about Reitsma last year……for about 2 months. You might as well through Mark Wohlers into that category as well. Is what Andruw looks like at the plate right now, any worse than Wohlers did on the mound at the end?

Some guys just lose it. I just hope for the sake of our season, that this doesn’t just snowball on Andruw and get worse, before it gets better.

Contrary to what most of you believe, I DON’T want Andruw to fail.

But he isn’t going to just “accidentally” start succeeding, without making an adjustment. Right now, he is, unfortunately, living proof of Einstein’s “definition of insanity”.

By Spinelli

May 22, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Lew- couldn’t agree more with you about people suggesting AJ be traded..it is a mute point. I do think he should be sat down for a game or two. BC should have sat him Sunday giving him 3 days off before the Mets.

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

As for the strikeouts … mind-boggling. For Andruw Jones to suddenly be striking out two and three times a game is something we’ve never seen before, not for this long a stretch at least….

Not trying to be a smarty but actually, in 2004 he struck out 29 times in May and 28 times in June, 33 times in August and 27 times in Sept/Oct. He finished the year at .261 AVG/.345 OBP/.488 SLG, 29 HR, 91 RBI—sub par compared to his ‘02, ‘03, ‘05 and ‘06 seasons but still one of the most productive CFs that season.

From May 4-12, 2004, AJ struck out 14 times in 8 games.

This season has somewhat of an eerie similarity to 2004. The team got off to a hot start, struggled in May and June then caught fire late in the season. Could we see this again?

And AJ’s 2007 is not as unprecedented as we may think.

By biffpocoroba

May 22, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

DOB - Any chance the Braves give journeymen Buddy Carlyle or Trey Hodges a shot? Both are pithcing great in Richmond. Not long-term solutions, but surely better than what we’ve seen so far out of Redman.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 22, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

You all need to listen to LEW. He knows his sh-it. several months ago he gave me some good insite/predictions about the Mets. I’m still waiting for it to happen but that’s ok. He’s still out little LEW and we love him.

By JasonInMaine

May 22, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

If Redman pitches starts again for the Braves, it will be one of the bigger surprises in recent memory. I just don’t get how they can run him back out there. They might as well forfeit the game and give the team a night of rest. You could run almost anyone from Richmond out there, and he couldn’t do any worse, could he? Really, could he?

Regards,

Jason

By Spinelli

May 22, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

If the Braves want to hold onto Saty and possibly move him to 1st, would that mean that Thorman could be trade bait? I’m not sure who would be interseted in him but he may be able to get a decent #4 starter for him. I noticed Kansas City has sent Ryan Shealy down maybe they would take Thorman for Zack Grienke or Jimmy Goble.

By Braveheart

May 22, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

There are three solutions to the Andruw situation: (1) trade him, (2) bench him, or (3) send him to the minors til he starts showing he can hit again.

Down Syndrome Dan, I hope you wiped and flushed after squirting that out of you. Your thoughts waste more space than Woodward and Orr combined.

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Braveheart,

It could be that but why assume? It is stubbornness this season but he was never stubborn in his better seasons? He was more willing to adjust in his better seasons? I doubt it.

I do agree it’s more about pitch recognition and possibly mechanics than something like stubbornness and personality. I guess what bothers me are those who are trying to make this a soap opera and those who assume Andruw is more of a brat than any other player in baseball.

By N8

May 22, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Again, I will agree with you to an exent.

The strikeout totals aren’t what worry me as much. We all know that Andruw has always, and will always strike out a great number of times in a season.

What’s alarming to me this season, is the fasion in which he’s striking out. It literally looks like he has never hit a baseball before. THAT is what’s so disturbing.

To say he is lost, or doesn’t have a clue what’s coming right now, is a hugee understatement.

Even his “limbo low” batting average, isn’t that big of a deal so far. He is a .265 career hitter. Right now he is hitting .212 with 33 hits in 156 AB’s. If he had EIGHT more hits, he’d be hitting .262. Considering he has 30 RBI in 43 games (on pace for 113), it’s not as bad as it seems like it is, other than his approach.

I don’t disagree that at some point, he’ll catch fire and get his “numbers” back where they are normally at, in fact I’m sure he’ll carry the team for a few weeks.

I just don’t see it happening against the Mets. They are the second best pitching team (statistically) in the NL. They are NOT gonna let Andruw beat them. For one, he’s NEVER been a good “bad ball” hitter. That is exactly what he’s gonna see this week. Second of all, right now, he aint hitting the mistakes, either.

Will he break out this year? More than likely. But it aint happening before June 1st. Mets have good pitching, Phillies are surging, and the Ned Yost led Brewers aren’t gonna be the ones to wake the sleeping giant.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

ChopZone-Maybe you need Krispy Kremes, too. Might make a Southernern out of you. It would certainly help your personality.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

ChopZone-Maybe some grits would help as well. Eating all those Coney Island Red Hots and Bagels just ain’t good for your constituion. Not to mention the Freudian symbolism that drips from them.

By rammerjammer

May 22, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

Saw where Stockman was disabled by Richmond, again. That’s his third DL trip this season. Is there some sort of record for most disabled pitchers? We’ve got to be closing in on it.

By David O'Brien

May 22, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Shaun, you left out a couple other points about 2004, however.

Yes, he struck out 29 times in May and 28 times in June, but did so after hitting .291 with 14 walks and 12 strikeouts in April. He was never this bad this far into the season.

And even when striking out that many times in May and June, he still hit .229 and .239 in those months.

If he hits .333 (12-for-36) in his remaining nine games this month, he’ll finish May with a .211 average for the month.

But then you’d search his entire career and find a month when he hit lower, and say that, too, is unprecedented.

How ‘bout this: Since becoming a star player, he’s never been this bad, this deep into a season? Can you acknowledge that (not that I really care if you do, since he has himself, in so many words, by pointing out that he’s always hit in May even after struggling in April).

Give it a rest. He’s having a terrible season, Shaun. Two weeks ago you were still arguing he wasn’t having a bad year because he was avoiding outs. It was laughable then, and is more so now that he’s been dropping to sixth in the order and struck out 17 times in 33 at-bats over his past eight games.

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

N8,

I think the strikeouts are the problem. A lot of his hits are being replaced by strikeouts. He’s going to K a lot but he’s still K-ing a little too much. Except for recently, everything else has been fine—he’s been walking a lot more than normal, his extra-base power has been pretty good. He just needs to turn a few of those strikeouts (not as many as some think) into hits and/or walks and he’ll be fine.

It’s not a soap opera. He’s not a delinquent (at least not any more than any other player).

By Lee

May 22, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Spinelli -

I would say your assessment of eventually trading Thorman is a possibility. Baring any minor league player, if a position player is traded from the current Braves roster, it would appear either Salty or Thorman would be the leading candidates. I cannot think of any other starting player that would be traded and lets face it - who would want Woodward or Orr. I don’t look for a trade anytime soon, but around mid-season J.S. will more-than-likely push the buttons on a trade that he feels will improve the ball club.

By JasonInMaine

May 22, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

I think JS is already working the phones and looking for any pitching deal that he can find. I doubt he will find one anytime soon, but I also doubt that he is waiting until until the end of the trading deadline to find one. He knows, much more than we do, that his rotation is in shambles. I agree with the assessment that we have a 1, 1a, and 3 5s.

Regards,

Jason

By berigan

May 22, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Shawn, wait a sec….now you are saying Andruw is not a pull hitter, never was??? I am confused. Almost as confused as your defense of his play,(Defense of his offense) this year. This time, I am sure, you will be convinced, that Andruw sucks, at least this year! ;)

You have said in the past, that his lifetime average (.265) is mediocre at best. He is hitting .212, 43 points below his admittedly average career average! I know, BA isn’t that important. Well, at least swinging for the fences is producing a Dave Kingman-esk home run total this year. Wait, only 6? ESPN shows a total of 22 for his career at this current level, which would be the lowest total since his first full season, 1997. His slugging % is .397, by far the lowest total for his career. His OPS is .729, .894 last year, .922 in ‘05. His 51 strikeouts in 43 games means his is well on his way to destroying his career high total in ‘04 total of 147, by a wide margin.

Only 2 numbers he is putting up look decent, walks and RBI’s with 30. Why does he have decent RBI numbers? Most likey because Kelly Johnson, Renteria, and Chipper have OBP around .400 all year. Andruw’s is .332, lowest of anyone on the team, save Thorman.

Now, watch how pitchers pitch to him, they know that when you have 2 strikes on him, throw him breaking stuff, low and more often than not, outside and he is out. EVERY scouting report is showing that, cuz that is how he is being pitched. If he doesn’t figure out that seemingly obvious fact, and take one, or two pitches outside the strike zone, he will be hitting .200 or less by the end of next week.

So Shawn, in conclusion, admit it, this year, so far, Andruw sucks! Free yourself! :)

By Grahamdawg

May 22, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

ShaunWhy do you continue to defend Andruw all day,everyday on these blogs? Do you have anything else to do? Except for the stats you keep copying and pasting, you have no idea what you are talking about:I don’t believe his struggles are due to his failure to pull the ball because he’s never pulled the ball, even in his best seasons Um….thats what Andruw does everytime he’s at bat. What don’t you focus your time and energy to ending global warming? It’s more hopeful than fixing Andruw’s swing and more productive than blogging about it all day.

By Frits

May 22, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

I have second thoughts about AJ’s so called stubborness. Knowng the guy a little bit I believe that his way he is reacting to the outside world is part of his make up. Imagine being critisized by half the baseball world, how are you supposed to react? Countless people stepping up “offering” him advise. It is very difficult to maintain your confidence in a stride like this. You can bet that he is sweating his a* off to see what he can do better, what he can improve. Believe me he is more that bound to break out and it will be his biggest achievement yet

By Lew

May 22, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Lee-Why even trade Thor? He’s coming around offensively and he hustles like there’s no tomorrow. Besides, it looks like we may need outfielders in the next year and he has experience in left. If traded he’s not going to bring any significant quality pitching and that’s what we really need. We have plenty of young position players in the minors-way more than we will ever play regularly at the big league level for the Braves. That’s where your trade bait will come from. I’d just as soon have young pitching in return in any trade. There are AAA options that, as some have already pointed out, couldn’t perform any worse than Redman has to this point. There is just no available pitching option out there that would be any better than what we have (unless JS pulls off another of his miracle trades). All of MLB is hurting for good starting pitching. You can’t trade for what doesn’t exist or what no one will relinquish. Believe me-if there were any good pitching available, the Yankees, at the very least, would be jumping on it like a hungry feline on a mouse.

By NO CHOP ZONE

May 22, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Don’t you live in Vermont LEW? When did you become so knowledgable on becoming a southerner?

By daniel

May 22, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Jayson Stark was on Mike and Mike this morning talking about his new book (name escapes me right now). It lists the 5 most overrated and underrated players at each position in history. The #1 most overrated center fielder of all time according to Stark, our beloved Andruw Jones.

He didn’t attack his hitting throughout his career as much as he attacked his diminished range and fielding abilities. Stark but he makes 100 fewer putouts a year over the past several seasons and he’s been last in the league in getting to balls in his “area of the outfield” in 2 out of the past 3 seasons.

I was surprised by those stats.

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

DOB,

He is having a terrible season. I’ve never denied he was having a bad season by his standards. I was denying earlier that he was as bad as a lot of folks though. Over the past week, that has changed because he’s seemed to lose the one thing he was doing very well.

He was avoiding outs earlier, so he wasn’t as bad as a lot of people thought—OBP over .350 until last Thursday. (High batting average isn’t the same as avoiding outs, high OBP is. You can avoid outs at a respectable rate with a low AVG and you can have a respectable AVG and not avoid outs at a respectable rate.)

Taking walks doesn’t feed into a player’s ego and doesn’t help with the folks who overrate batting average, although it does help the team. Now he’s not even doing that.

By berigan

May 22, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

rammerjammer, the braves possibly setting record for injured pitchers??? I think the Yankees have set the all time record this season! ;)

By Lee

May 22, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

JasonInMaine -

No doubt that if the right trade comes along for a starting pitcher that J.S. likes, the deal is as good as done. It just will be interesting to see who the Braves trade away.

By berigan

May 22, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Lew, you said at 9:04 that we can’t trade Andruw. That is absolutely true, right now. I’ve got to believe though that Andruw is really going to start hearing the boo birds if he strikes out a lot against the Mets and Phillies this week. Has he ever had to deal with that? A few weeks, months of that, and he may relent. but, if he is still hitting near the Mendoza line, I guess it will still be a moot point, eh????

By Lee

May 22, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Lew - Agreed that Thorman is coming around and I don’t really want the Braves to trade him. I am only basing it on the assumption that if a current major league player for the Braves is traded for a pitcher, I only see Thorman or Salty as options. Once again not I am not taking the minor league players into consideration.

By JasonInMaine

May 22, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Lee,

Good question. Obviously, there is Salty and our middle infield depth in the minors. But, other than that; there isn’t much that other teams are going to be interested in, well not that we are going to trade. We don’t have the bat that the Angels seem to be willing to trade pithing for. As a result, it will most likely be closer to the trading deadline before JS is able to make a trade for a quality starter. It will have to be for a team that is out of it and wants some good prospects. I wish the Angels would have been willing to deal Santan and Adenhardt for Rochy in the offseason!

Regards,

Jason

By Fred from CT

May 22, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

let’s go braves I hope everyone is as pumped up as I am for these three games. what better way to start this off then bombing sosa.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

ChopZoine-I live in Vermont NOW and have for 6 years. I went to school in Georgia. I was married in Macon. My son was born in Athens, Ga. while I did my Masters at The University of Georgia. I lived in central Florida for another 14 years. I can talk fishin with the best of them and still have friends send me grits. Anyone who lived in Macon for four years definitely paid his dues as a Southerner. You should try it sometime. I don’t think you could survive the heat and humidity, being such a weak New Yorker. Hell’s Kitchen doesn’t even come close to comparing to Bibb County in the summer. Is that southern enough for youse guys?

By journalist jimmy smith

May 22, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

ajc.com brings us a photo of michael vick at the egyptian ballroom. classic stuff. and mike is carrying a water bottle! what are the chances of that? and the watch mike is wearing is huge! would that watch fit in a water bottle? oh, well, this is a baseball blog … and where was mike’s coat and tie at the egyptian ballroom? new dress code there? and the woman mike was supposed to have a blind date with was not pictured - when mike saw her mike said she was too ugly to take to a dog fight. oh, the humanity! these bad jokes just keep coming from the keyboard. and what of “hang down your head tom dooley” for grinch’s song? good beat, can dance to it … and now that chipper’s thumbs have healed can it be time for some more poetry on this blog? and with all this poetry of late will this blog become the braves.man-in-black.pie.bbq.music.poetry blog? Little Jack Horner Played the hot corner, While eating some chicken-wings pie; He put in his thumb, And pulled out a plum, And said, What a good boy am I!

By berigan

May 22, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Wonder if JS would consider trading for Kason Gabbard???? I really liked what I saw from him the other day. I don’t think it was just another unknown starter picking on the braves, he has good stuff! He has had a couple cups of coffee, and in 30 innings, has a 3.52 ERA and 22 strikeouts.

He’s 25 as well, and from what little I have read about the Sox prospects, his name isn’t at the top with Lester and Hanson(Hansen?) The Sox are overloaded with pitchers it seems. He is just wasting away at AAA at this point. Thing is, do we have anything they want/need?

By Alan

May 22, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

DOB

Good piece. AJ’s swing is, frankly, grotesque. Remember when Bobby took him out of the line up s few years ago to teach him a lesson?. It’s time to do it again. For several reasons:

1. He’s hurting the team, despite his glove work
2. There is no chance of him getting back on track when he is barely covering the innner half of the plate. What pitcher worth his salt is going to pitch him in there?.
3. He is going to end up on the DL with the torque he is exposing his lower back to.

I think that it is absurd that a professional sportsman, paid megabucks, can be so unprofessional about what is a personal crisis.

Alan

By fansince66

May 22, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

I am afraid that when AJ leaves here he will go to a team that won’t tolerate his fall down, pull everything mentality. At that point, he’ll go back to hitting for big numbers, and the BA will probably go up too. I believe it says it all that Pendleton has told us that he can’t take AJ’s swings for him. I don’t care if he has more HR’s than Aaron at that age, the team has to make clear what’s expected. Bring back Willie Mays or whomever. If the team sits around wringing their hands with this guy, they deserve what they get.

By Salty

May 22, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

*…but he makes 100 fewer putouts a year over the past several seasons and he’s been last in the league in getting to balls in his “area of the outfield” in 2 out of the past 3 seasons. *

What?!? How is this computed? Does (poor) pitching not factor into ‘get-ability’ (new word!)? I’m no math wiz, but…I’d like to see the formula (never mind, I wouldn’t understand it). Must be the same logic as calculating, “do you get wetter walking, or running, in the rain?”

By Lew

May 22, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Berigan-Whether or not he has ever or will deal with booing is basically irrelevant. It will be, as you say, a moot point. If he continues in the direction he is headed, no one will give up a bag of batting practice balls or cracked bats for him, much less a decent pitcher or a prospect. He’s playing himself off of the market in several ways. At this rate, I don’t give his chances of commanding $20 mil a year a snowball’s chance in Macon in the summer (Scribe-how’s that for a journalistic tie in?).

By berigan

May 22, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

I wonder if the A’s would be interested in any of our infielders, or….gulp, Salty! Jason Kendall is 33 in a few weeks, has zero power and is hitting .189.

I heard an Angel player say the A’s had by far, the best pitching in baseball, their team ERA is 3.32. Would Billy Beane risk trading with JS again?

By Braves Fan 79

May 22, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Id much rather see sosa out there any day than Redmen! All you pple hating on sosa he really did a nice hob for us and personally i looked forward to watching him pitch just because he had good stuff. Even thou he put runners on base he got out of most jams. It really kills me the Braves spent any $ at all on redmen.
They should of relyed on their minor league system from the start.
IF the Braves do trade salty i wouldnt do it for anything less than a #1 or 2 quality starting pitcher!! Otherwise salty would be a very capable bench player during playoff time on our VERY weak bench. Now up to bat: the auomatic out…WOODWARD. We might as well have the pitcher hitting!! And whoever said wed have to package together escobar and salty…is a idiot. Those are 2 pple i hope are on the team come playoff time!

By Lee

May 22, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

Lew - You are right about Macon. I have always said that is where Georgia needed to be divided and have a North Georgia and a South Georgia. GO BRAVES - we need to win tonight’s game before we really start digging ourselves into a hole.

By Savannah Guy

May 22, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

Fan 1: The sky is blue in Atlanta thsi week. That bodes well for the Bravos after the rain-drenched mudfest we had in Boston. Seems the sky is always blue at home after a losing road trip. Shaun: Well Fan 1, the sky really not always blue. It rains 27.6% of the time in America and 24.3% in Atlanta. Fan 1: well, I suppose you are technically correct, but I mean that, generally the sky is blue. Even when it rains, the sky is different shades of blue-gray. Shaun: But on the statistical charts of meterologists in America, the sky is more of a greenish, purpleish, blue- gray, so your contention that the sky is even blue when is rains is false. Only 25% of the time the sky is blue, which I call “green, purple, gray avoidance”. Fan 1: Ok, I see your point Shaun. Whatever. Shaun: Actually you can’t really see my point. You are only seeing my words on this blog. To see my point, you would have to be here with me when I’m making my point. Fan 2:Does anyone know how Gonzales is doing on the DL? Fan 3:What’s the latest on Wickman? N8:Shaun, you stupid idiot, what do you mean “purple avoidance”. Hey, if it rains, the sky is still somewhat blue, at least part of the day. Shaun:N8, I see your point, but according to the last 200 years of rain in America, the sky was only totally blue, or considered by general Sherwin-Williams specifications as being something other than blue 29.56% of the time. Wall:Shaun, you are missing the point. Most people just look out the window and say, the sky is blue. Why are you arguing this point? Let it go. *Shaun: I wish that the sky were always blue. But the sky is really not having a bad year, even though it has been something other than blue many times. Wall: Wrong, Shaun. Shaun:I’m right, Wall. Wall:Wrong. Shaun: Right. Fan 4: Has Salty been playing first any in practice? Shaun:Fan 4, you are missing the point. It rained most of the time in Boston, so the sky was not really blue. Wall: Wrong again Shaun. Shaun:Wall, I’m going to beat you down. Fan 5:Andruw Jones must be feeling really blue the last few weeks. He is really slumping and looking so dazed and confused at the plate. Shaun:Fan 5, you just really don’t see the big picture here. The sky in Atlanta, as I’ve stated before……..

By rammerjammer

May 22, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Re: Andruw’s putouts over time.

1998: 413 1999: 488 2000: 437 2001: 461 2002: 404 2003: 390 2004: 389 2005: 365 2006: 378 2007: 122 so far (projects to 449)

Andruw’s track this year blows Stark’s assessment out of the water. Sure, Andruw has lost a step or two over time but he’s still in a class by himself defensively.

By flange1

May 22, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

DOB,

With all of the AJ stuff going on, we are hearing his back is hurt and the quotes that he is giving, like he is a pull hitter, he doesn’t go to right field, he does not care if he is slumping etc, what kind of guy is Andruw? From a fan’s perspective, we hear he is bright, we know he is talented. You have said he likes to play games at times.

Is he a brat? We are hearing about parting in Buckhead, but I have heard that he has calmed down quite a bit and is not out all of the time. His weight also seems to be going up from when he came into camp.

Does he work out alot? Does he ask for extra BP? Does he even take BP?

As always, thanks for the blog and all of your insite!

By Lee

May 22, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Frits - where have you been lately? Being from the same country and knowing Andruw some - maybe you need to try to talk some sense into him.

By BEST LINE OF THE DAY

May 22, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

“Anybody who has lived in Macon for four years has definitely paid his dues as a Southerner.”

Amen brother.

By Stuart

May 22, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Salty for Dan Haren of the A’s. Haren is on the books for the next 3 years at 4.5, 7, and 9 mil over the next three years. Salty would give them a young catcher that Oakland desperately needs. That is my best bet for a trade for a SP.

By Braveheart

May 22, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

JJS, the ultimate photo would be Mike Vick in the back of a limo with a watch on his arm, a water bottle in one hand, a blunt in the other, his arms wrapped around two honeys, giving the double barreled Dirty Birdie salute with both of his middle fingers, with two disfigured Bulldogs at his feet, asking the honeys if they are down with Ron Mexico, with his brother seen in the background in the parking lot, waving a gun in the face of a few people all the while his brother is stomping on some defenseless guy on the floor, while a pack of dogs are in another corner of the parking lot ripping each other to shreds, with King Arthur Blank pushing his favorite injured dog to one side of the parking lot so that he could watch the fights.

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Salty,

I think Stark was referring to zone rating, which is basically percentage of balls caught within his zone.

Not perfect because it obviously can’t take things like trajectory into account. But I think if you look a zone rating along with some other things, you can see that AJ’s defensive skills have declined some.

I do have a hard time believe AJ is a below-average defender.

By daniel

May 22, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Salty,

I was skeptical of those stats too, but I am just telling it like I heard it. The putouts thing is not quite accurate. I’ve been checking on that one.

Putouts by season 98 - 413 99 - 488 00 - 437 01 - 461 02 - 404 03 - 390 04 - 389 05 - 365 06 - 378

All I know about the “range statistic” is that you can find it somewhere on ESPN.com (according to Stark). Someone maybe can help me out here, but the way he explained it, it just looks at how many balls he gets to in his section of the outfield and how many of those balls become outs.

Like I said, I’m just repeating what he said and I don’t necessarily agree.

By Bill

May 22, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

AJ has NEVER covered the outside portion of the plate well. Throughout his entire career any pitcher worth his salt could get him out by pitching him down & away. Shoot, I could get him out. When he’s going good, he barely covers the outside. When he’s swinging like he is right now…OMG is he bad! He’s a streaky hitter at best, and if I owned the team I’d be looking to trade him for some starting pitching. He’s hurt this team for years with his inconsistency at the plate. He struggles like he does becasue he’s undisciplined and lazy. If he were a true professional he’d be in that batting cage until the wee hours of the morning trying to work it out. Instead, he’s making absolutely rediculous comments like the “I’m a pull hitter and that’s the way it is” one he made a few weeks ago. I’ll never understand why he continues to do nothing with the gift he’s been given. What a waste of talent.

By Braveheart

May 22, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

funny stuff savannah guy

By Turnin2

May 22, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

DOB - any chance the Braves could coax Andres Galarraga or Don Baylor into coming back for a special assignment - a.k.a Andruw Jones??? Those are the only two human beings I’ve ever known AJ to have respect for - at least enough to listen to their advice…

By Braves20

May 22, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

All this trade talk. If we truly want to solidify our rotation, we need to look south as opposed to west or north. Dontrelle Willis can be had according to a lot of south Florida media. And it gives us a lefty to go with two stud rightys. If we have to package one of our two future All-Stars (Escobar or Salty) so be it. But they should not go for anything less! Plus we would just look great in a Braves uni!

By David O'Brien

May 22, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Daniel, I’ve got a lot of respect for Jayson, always have. But those fielding stats don’t jibe with what I’ve seen from Andruw, not at all. He had a down year (by his standards) a few years ago, when he was at his chunkiest and was having back and knee problems (more than usual). But since then, and especially this year, to say he’s getting 100 fewer putouts a year, or however he put it, sounds ludicrous.

I mean, has he seen footage of the couple of balls he caught at the wall on the right-field side of right-center? The sliding catches coming in? The balls he caught this weekend on the track at Fenway?

Look, Andruw’s the most stubborn hitter around, and he’s having a terrible season at the plate and looks completely out of sorts there. But come on, to attack his defense? That’s crazy to call him the most overrated defensive center fielder. Just crazy.

Talk to the players, the managers, the media, the fans. We know what we see, and there aren’t more than two or three other center fielders who can hold Andruw’s jock defensively. He’s not what he was 6-7 years ago, but he’s still waaaaay above average, still exceptional, still, to me, one of the three best of the past 25 years.

By coachk

May 22, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Andrew is the best centerfielder i have ever seen and i am 50, but he is killing this team with stranding runners. his I am a pull hitter only lets me know how imature he still is bench him, put harris in center and diaz in left and let him just see how soon hitting to right looks. His swing is so screwed up don’t think there is enough months in the year to help

By Thrillhouse44

May 22, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Savannah guy, great post!

By daniel

May 22, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Salty,

The range rating is referred to as the Zone rating on Espn.com. Defined as The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive “zone,” as measured by STATS, Inc.”

Here are his results since 2001.

01 - best in national league 02 - 5th in NL 03 - 10th in NL 04 - 11th in NL (last among qualifiers) 05 - 7th in NL out of 10 qualifiers 06 - 10th among 10 qualifiers 07 - 7th out of 12

This formula may be terribly flawed (I have no idea how much credibility it gets), and I don’t think he’s lost nearly this much ability, but those are the stats Stark was citing.

By Salty

May 22, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Daniel I wasn’t targeting you…it was the ‘Stark’ analysis…simply couldn’t grasp the concept. It’s the first time I can ever recall a comment suggesting Andruw was losing it. Shaun Please, don’t start. Everyone loses a step…don’t need a stat to show that. And as you admit, it ain’t perfect…and it can’t be. Pitching and the ball parks themselves affect what outfielders will get to, so how can a ‘zone’ even be comparable one to another?

By Fred from CT

May 22, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

stark is a idiot watch the games. stats are overrated

By rammerjammer

May 22, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

ESPN is the leader in absolute statements designed to provoke strong responses.

I don’t like ‘em, but they learned long ago to sell the sizzle, not the steak.

Braveheart, that photo op description was priceless.

By Salty

May 22, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Daniel Well, Mr. Stark may not help his credibility standing behind that analysis. The only coverage AJ’s lacking in, slumping in fact, is plate coverage! No argument there!

By Thrillhouse44

May 22, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Stark also claimed Greg Nettles was overrated…Overrated by who? I didn’t even know he was rated.

By Jim

May 22, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I would pay a little more attention before suggesting we trade Salty for Dontrelle Willis. Have you looked at his ERA over the past two years? Right now, on a good staff he’s no better than a number 3 starter.

2006 IP=223.3 H=234 K=160 W=83 ERA=3.87

2007 IP=63 H=70 K=48 W=26 ERA=4.86

Chuck James

2006 IP=119 H=101 K=91 W=47 ERA=3.78

2007 IP=47.2 H=52 K=37 W=19 ERA=4.15

Given the name that Dontrelle has and the willingness for clubs to overbid for a “name” starter, he would not be that big an upgrade over our current number 3 starter, and his price tag would be grossly inflated. I would not trade Salty even-up for Dontrelle and it would probably take more than one good player to get him. It is hard to evaluate the West Coast American League teams talent when you don’t get to see them play very often, so I can’t comment on Harden, Haren, or E. Santana, (but E. Santana’s numbers do not look all that good this year.) In short, Salty appears to be too great a talent to waste on a number 3-type starter.

By daniel

May 22, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

To all-

Just to clarify: I don’t necessarily agree with Stark’s analysis. I was just bringing it up for debate since the discussion about his swing is getting tired and I’m sure we’ll have plenty of opportunities to talk about that if he doesn’t break out of this slump.

Andruw is to most Braves fans the best they’ve ever seen in CF. Obviously we aren’t alone in thinking that because he wins Gold Gloves every year. I just wanted to bring up his comments and spur some debate on their validity or lack thereof.

By daniel

May 22, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

He also said Nolan Ryan was the most overrated right handed starter of all time. And most overrated left handed starter? Sandy Koufax. So, he went way out there on some of his claims to be sure.

By Braves20

May 22, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

DOB - Great post. Most overrated center fielder? They will retire that title with Jim Edmonds

By Lew

May 22, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Savannah Guy-You may be right. The sky has certainly had a bad year in Boston-just about the ONLY thing having a bad year in Boston (other than Coco Crisp).

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 22, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Some of these @$$Clowns wouldn’t have an original thought if it was stuck to the back of their hand…bunch of Joe Morganites!…

By Carroll

May 22, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

DOB: I know AJ has said he doesn’t want to be traded, and he would refuse any such attempts. But isn’t it possible that the right set of circumstances could allow it to happen? I mean…if he keeps struggling this mightily and watches his potential contract value fall in a Brady-Quinn-like fashion, mightn’t he eventually think it’s not such a bad idea to accept a trade to a team he really wants to go to (like Anaheim for example), if they offer him an attractive multi-year contract?

And wouldn’t they still wanna go ahead and do such a deal now—even though he’s struggling—rather than let it go to a bidding war in the offseason and watch his value skyrocket (like all the marginal pitchers this past offseason, and the DeRosas, Helms, Sorianos and Carlos Lee’s of the world)?

By bruce

May 22, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Dave:

How has Andruw looked in BP? Different than “usual”?

By Lew

May 22, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Thrillhouse-I did see Nettles play third and he may be the best ever after Brooks Robinson. If Starks thinks he and Koufax are overrated he’s so full of…well, you get the point. He is clueless.

By FLBRAVESFAN

May 22, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Someone is comparing Willis with Chuck James? Give me a toke off that weed!

By IlliniBrave

May 22, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

I hate to say it guys, but Stark’s assessment of the data is right. You may want to argue with the formulas for Range Factor and Zone Rating, but AJ hasn’t been near the top in those categories for years. Now, we could argue with the interpretation of that data and the resultant conclusions. But don’t knock Stark - he and Gammons are the two best baseball analysts out there.

And to me, from what I see, he doesn’t seem as graceful out there as he used to be. He doesn’t seem to have that super-quick reaction to the ball like in the past. Sure he makes some spectacular diving catches, but so does Edmonds and Erstad and Hunter and Matsui and even, God help us, Manny Ramirez! I just wonder if we shouldn’t ask oursleves, “are we too blinded by our past adulations of AJ’s talent?” Maybe we aren’t being as objective as we should be. I agree he was beyond superlatives 7 or 8 years ago, but really, over the past 4 or 5 years, if you watch a lot of baseball, don’t you see a lot of CF’s doing what Andruw does now? I’m just not sure that he’s that special any more.

{Note: I’m expecting somebody to have some argument about “error avoidance” or something like that}

By David O'Brien

May 22, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy, just saw your post and laughed my a&% off….

Flange1, Andruw’s a good guy. A bit of an agitator with certain members of the media, but his comments are made (at least I think) in fun. Anyway, he’s always there to be interviewed, never runs and hides, ever. Good or bad performance, he’s there. All you can ask for. And he has opinions and expresses them. Again, all you can ask as a media member.

His teammates like him, near as I can tell all do. He’s a good dude with them, funny and keeps things loose, loves to bust ba#@s — everyone’s, not must reporters’.

He works hard in the offseason, takes batting practice most days, not all. Isn’t a morning person, but the Buckhead talk isn’t fair anymore. He’s not a big party guy anymore since getting married and having a kid. There have been a couple of prominent Braves in recent years who were always dragging a&$ for day games, and you’d hear how hung over they were, etc.

But both of them are gone, and no, I’m not going to tell you who they were. Just brought it up to point out Andruw isn’t one of them, at least not since I’ve covered the team. Can’t tell you what he was like in that regard before 2002, because I wasn’t around this team then.

Bottom line — his problems now at the plate don’t stem from not working hard or whatever. They’re from trying to pull ever ball over the fence, trying to hit home runs. And yes, I now think a lot of it’s snowballed because he’s in a contract year and trying to pile up power numbers, and since things have spiraled he’s taken to just swinging as hard as he can to try to pound his way out of it. Not going to work.

Going to have to get back to fundamentally sound approach, at least more fundamentally sound than the disaster of a swing he’s shown lately.

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

daniel,

I think he’s got a point with Ryan. He walked over 103 batters a season. Compare that to Clemens (just over 67) or Maddux (just over 43) and it’s not even close how many free passes he gave up.

No doubt Ryan’s a HOFer but some will argue he’s the best pitcher in history. Simply not true.

(Obviously ‘overrated’ depends on who is doing the rating.)

By David O'Brien

May 22, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Carroll, you really think teams are going to be lining up right now with the kind of multi-year contracts he’s looking for, and also give the Braves the talent they’d want in a trade for Andruw if they were trying to deal him? No. Teams will wait to see how Andruw does this season, make sure he’s healthy, then sign him to a big contract without giving up talent in a trade for him.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Carroll-With his performance to this point, who do you feel will offer anything for Andruw, much less an important piece of our puzzle? Do you really think the Angels will give up any of their pitching or Chone Figgins for someone who just struck out five times in a game and is batting .221 with less HR than Kelly Johnson-and then offer him a lucrative long-term contract? He admittedly has back and knee issues and looks like he will tear his Achilles Tendon or break on ankle on any given swing. I think you need a reality check if you believe there will be any serious takers on that deal.

By David O'Brien

May 22, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Who in the world argues Nolan Ryan is the greatest in history? I’ve NEVER seen anyone argue that, not anyone in the game or anyone who covers the game for a living. I’ve seen him described as the best strikeout pitcher, hardest thrower, most intimidating, most likely to throw a no-hitter, etc, but never seen anyone call him the best pitcher ever.

Nolan wouldn’t crack my top 10 for “best pitcher.”

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Lee,

I’m guessing he thinks Koufax is overrated because he retired after his age 30 season. And, like Ryan, some will argue he was the best pitcher or best LHP in history.

I think it’s valid to say you can’t be the best pitcher in history with only six great seasons under your belt.

I don’t think Stark is denying the greatness of these players or is disrespecting them, he just thinks that some people have made them so much more than they were. That’s just my guess, and I think he probably has some valid points, although I’d have to see what he says to be fair.

By JasonInMaine

May 22, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

I think 4 of the top 10 pitchers are still active today…

By Jim

May 22, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

The lineup I would like to see vs. Mets:

vs. Sosa and Glavine — KJ, 2B; Edgar, SS; Chipper, 3B; Francouer, RF; McCann, C; Diaz, LF; Thorman, 1B; Harris, CF; Pitcher.

vs. Perez — Prado, 2B; Edgar, SS, Chipper, 3B; Francouer, RF; Diaz, LF; Salty, C; Andruw, CF; Thorman, 1B; Pitcher.

If I were Cox, I would tell Andruw that he MUST hit at least one ball to the right side, even if its only a ground out to 2B or he will be benched at the start of the Philly series, and that his moving back down to the middle of the order will be contingent upon hitting some hard drives to right and right-center during the next few weeks (until he comes to realize that there is money to be made in right-center and his stroke begins to show some semblance of that of a major league player).

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I’ve heard a few fans who should know better rank Ryan at least in their top 10.

But I agree that a lot of experts and insiders wouldn’t rank Ryan that high.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 22, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Be careful—Nolan Ryan might crack your head like he did to Robin Ventura when he charged the mound!…

By Lee

May 22, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Dontrelle Willis is no more that a number 3 starter. That is exactly for the Braves are looking for. Look Salty is a good prospect but if anyone thinks he (alone)is going to bring a number 1 or 2 starter forget-about-it. Also Dontrelle Willis is like Andruw, there is still a lot of talent left in him. He could return to a #1 starting picther any day. Trade Salty for Dontrelle today if possible. As a matter of fact - trade Salty and a minor league prospect for Dontrelle if possible.

By TheSouthernJackAss

May 22, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

I guess Koufax and Ryan were pretty good “out avoiders”!…

By flange1

May 22, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the answer. That is exactly what I have pictured about AJ. Glad to hear he is not a brat!

Hopefully, he will get his act together and start hitting the ball AND avoiding outs.

Hopefully at the same time!!!

By Jim

May 22, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

FLFan

I’m saying that Willis had two big periods of dominance — for the first two months when he came up and he had a big year in 2005. Since 2005 his numbers are no better than those of a middle of the rotation pitcher, but his “name” value will greatly inflate his price tag. The comparison of his numbers with those of Chuck James is not to try to hype James, but to highlight the level of Willis’ performance over the past year and 1/4. My point is that I would NOT trade Salty even-up for Dontrelle Willis (even if Willis would be as cheap to own for the next 5 years as Salty).

By Coach

May 22, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Andruw Jones is a superb defender and is already a hall of fame candidate because of it. Nine straight gold gloves should be a clue to anybody who doesn’t have the common sense or baseball acumen to even be blogging in here. Nolan was a strike out artist who had the misfortune of playing on a lot of bad baseball teams. What people forget about Ryan was the fact that he pitched for an incredible TWENTY-SEVEN seasons(he made one start in 66). He was a fantastic athlete who’s longevity was a direct result of his dedication to keeping himself in top shape , much like Smoltz does today.

By Matthew, Dad to Walter

May 22, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Andruw, 5K in one day. Ouch. 3-5 starters, need I elaborate?

All told, by Friday at dawn the Braves could find themselves back in first place. If they’re not, they ought to be ticked at the way they played in Washington and in Boston. They have immense talent at nearly every position, and with the minor addition of a #3 starter, this team has World Series potential. I know Andruw isn’t hitting. I’ve come to expect that in this contract year. I’ll be glad when he’s either gone or re-signed for his value based on this year. It is becoming a distraction IMHO, and if not dealt with soon it could derail the whole season.

DOB What’s the general vibe around JS and Bobby regarding the rotation? Do their comments suggest to you that they are actively shopping at this very moment, or are they treading water until the trade deadline approahces and they see the division into the buyers and the sellers? In the past, I think they would have waited around to see what developed later, but I’m not sure they have that luxury this year.

By Carroll

May 22, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

DOB and Lew: I don’t think we’d get a whole heckuva lot for him now, but isn’t something better than the nothing we will receive when he invariably walks this offseason?!

By Braveheart

May 22, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

The Mets are on pace to win 105 games. They are not going to win 105 games.

The Braves are on pace to win 96 games.

96 games will win this division. The Mets have played over their heads and will get back to a more typical .600 win percentage race. The Braves have not really had great highs this year outside of the 7-1 start.

All the Braves have to do is keep plugging away at a 96 win rate and wait for the Mets to come back to them - winning another 2 or 3 from the stinking Mets will go a long way towards making that happen.

By flbravesgirl

May 22, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

I have to assume that Mr. Stark does not actually watch any Braves’ games. We all know Andruw’s not as fleet of foot as he once was but he still catches darn near everything. Over-rated to me equals “how-can-I-turn-everything-into-a-circus-catch-Jim-Edmonds”.

jimmy, is there a Wurlitzer Prize for poetry or is it strictly for journalism? If so, we need to nominate Wayne.

By Calvin

May 22, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

People do know that Nolan Ryan has the third most losses in MLB history right? He was only 32 games about .500 in his career. Greg Maddux is 133 games above .500. So who is the better pitcher?

By DonCoburleone

May 22, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

I would have to agree that I too would trade Salty straight up for Dontrelle too… But DOB do you think Florida would be willing to deal him without including Salty? I doubt it, but what about a Thorman/Pena/Davies or Thorman/Harrison/Yates type deal? Is there any chance that could be pulled off or do you think even if the Marlins thought it was a good deal they wouldn’t do it cuz of the P.R. hit they’d take?

By NCBravesFan

May 22, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

If I were Cox, I would tell Andruw that he MUST hit at least one ball to the right side, even if its only a ground out to 2B or he will be benched at the start of the Philly series, and that his moving back down to the middle of the order will be contingent upon hitting some hard drives to right and right-center during the next few weeks (until he comes to realize that there is money to be made in right-center and his stroke begins to show some semblance of that of a major league player).

Excellent suggestion, Jim! Bobby should also threaten to take away Andruw’s binky, and make him face the wall in the corner of the clubhouse if he does not come around.

By meansonny

May 22, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Carroll,

I think the time to deal Andruw was last season (before the 10/5 kicked in).

I don’t think there was an offer worth meriting last year, thus Andruw’s on the Braves this year.

If Andruw’s on the trading block, the only team interested would be a WS contender who needs a CF so bad and is so desparate as to take a chance on Andruw in a walk year. Basically, NO ONE (as DOB pointed out, every team would rather wait till Free Agency where they don’t have to give up any talent)

By The Grinch

May 22, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Man, Dontrelle and Moylan on the same team? Man, all we’d need then would be Freddie Murcury and UGA VI to start the “Johnson & Johnson Dental Floss call to the bullpen.”

By DonCoburleone

May 22, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

DOB, any chance you’re working on a new blog???

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

Coach,

No one is denying Ryan’s career was amazing. The point is he wasn’t as great a pitcher as a few people think.

And him pitching on bad teams didn’t keep him from handing out a huge number of free passes.

Calvin,

Tim Hudson has a better winning pct. than Roger Clemens, Jim Palmer, Koufax, Dizzy Dean, Randy Johnson. Is he a better pitcher?

I agree Maddux is a lot better than Ryan but it’s not because of winning pct.

By Baron

May 22, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Nolan Ryan can’t crack the top 20 all-time. His talent allowed him to succeed without really learning how to pitch until he was in his 40’s, and a freak of nature who never got injured and maintained a desire to pitch every 5 days until he was what, 48?

In fact, Nolan Ryan makes my stomach turn. His criminal wildness was his greatest asset as a pitcher. I watched him pitch in the 1980’s with disgust. That people will remember him as a great pitcher while a guy like Steve Carlton, or Tommie G for that matter, fades into history is a travesty.

BTW, greatest lefty ever was Warren Spahn. 363 wins and 3 1/2 years lost to WWII. Among post-dead-ball era pitchers, only Clemens and Maddux are within 30 wins of that. He was the Hank Aaron of pitchers- the fact that they played on the same team for 10+ years is remarkable.

By chris

May 22, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

I was at Fenway on Sunday. Andruw made three catches that most CF’s couldn’t and made them look easy. He saved us at least two runs. So regardless of how terribly he’s doing at the plate, he’s still a valuable player. I just would rather seem him in the 7 or 8 spot.

Salty is going to be special. He came up as a pinch hitter and worked an 11-12 pitch at bat against a very saavy veteran pitcher. He nearly hit a grand slam and yet on the next pitch, was cool headed enough to take and got himself a walk. Most young players would have been so jacked up after the loud foul they would have swung. Very impressive.

By David O'Brien

May 22, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

NCBravesFan, now THAT was funny. I think at times people forget you don’t deploy the same philosophies with multi-millionaire 30-year-olds who have nine Gold Gloves and 350 or so home runs that you would with a high school athlete who’s not making his grades.

By Calvin

May 22, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I only mentioned it because of what Mr. O’Brien said about Nolan Ryan. I am not saying winning pct is a way to measure a pitchers ability or effectiveness.

By Bob, Journalist

May 22, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman indicated that Andruw hasn’t shown the initiative necessary to make the adjustments that might have prevented his pathetic performance.

Pendleton seems frustrated that they can’t get on the same page but believes that if they could so do, Andruw could be helped.

Andruw says it all … or nothing, depending on how you look at it.

On why he frequently falls down … “I slip more than anybody, I guess. I don’t know.”

On his approach to hitting … “I’m not a right-field-ball hitter. I’m a pull hitter. That’s the way it is.”

On his attitude … “I can go 0-for-24, I don’t care. People can make a big deal about it. I don’t”

“I swing the bat the way I want to swing, the way I swing it all the time. So some days, you’re going to have bad days and some days, you’re going to have good days.”

It may well be difficult for Andruw to make hitting adjustments but methinks this dog wagging tail needs to be removed for a pinch hitter following his next visit to the ground as a result of swinging … and then benched for as long as is necessary to effect an attitude adjustment.

It might help Andruw and one would think it certainly would help the team … and that’s what the apparently forked tongue, Golden Glover wants: “… help my team any way that I can.”

By DonCoburleone

May 22, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Does anyone remember what Davies did to the Mets the first time he faced them this year? Here’s his line for that game: 6 2/3IP, 2ER’s, 8SO’s, 3BB’s…. So why do I have this feeling he won’t be repeating that performance?

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Baron,

That’s a good point. Stark probably had in mind that people remember Ryan more than some other greater pitchers. A lot of that has to do with the fact that Ryan seemed like an easy-going guy that was easy to like, he was around forever and he was a freak of nature.

Obviously players like Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner aren’t going to get the respect they probably deserve from casual fans because they played so long ago. But players like Ryan are fresh in people’s minds.

By The Grinch

May 22, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Stop the presses; I agree with Shaun’s 1:18. Off to the gym.

By JasonInMaine

May 22, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

I just hope he doesn’t have an awful first inning. I don’t want to see the Bravos down a ton before a bunch of runs before they even get a chance to bat!

By flbravesgirl

May 22, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget Francoeur, Grinch. He’s kinda toothy as well.

By JasonInMaine

May 22, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Sorry, can’t type today…

By Lee

May 22, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

As DOB stated in this BLOG, Oliver Perez pretty much owns the Braves so far. This even makes tonight’s game more important again Sosa. Tonight will be a test of how far Davies has come along. This may be the most important game he has pitched since coming to the Braves.

By Interested Observer

May 22, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Is there any new information on Gonzalez? Has he started throwing yet or any other type of treatment program?

By TennesseePaul

May 22, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Payne: “Not as great as a few people think.” “Not as bad of a slump as many think.” Do you have the PEW research center working for you? I’d like to see some statistics on what the populous, big or small, think on these topics.
It’s those pompus statements and the occassional “Most Intellegent People” remarks you weave in and out of your posts that do little to help your message. Those comments make you come across as the @sshole that would scold Nolan’s kid for saying his father was the greatest pitcher ever. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and realize that some people like things just because. That it’s a matter of preference and personal choice.

There are many pitchers that could be placed ahead of Ryan on the charts. But, it’s also a matter of definition. Ryan will always be the strikeout king. And I don’t think anyone is going to match or best his 7 no hitters. And so far, I can’t fathom anyone having a better mound fight than Ryan. And lastly, he gets the pitcher’s iron man award. He was still throwing gas all the way up till the end. I’m glad I got to see him pitch.

By The Grinch

May 22, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

FBG, Jeff’s teeth are at least straight. There’s an important aesthetic difference. BTW, you’ve got mail. Now I’m really off to the gym.

By Bob, Journalist

May 22, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Forgetting the dollar words, if Andruw really wanted to help his team any way that he could … how do you think he would be conducting himself at the plate?

Maybe we should take a pole …

By Grahamdawg

May 22, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

DonCoburleone, You have that feeling because Davies is inconsistent headcase….all the talent in the world, but he lacks the nerves to match it

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

It seems some people overrate Ryan’s ability to help his team win. Maybe it’s not as many or maybe it’s just a few casual fans I’ve been around.

And I understand Ryan was amazing, etc. I wish I had half a baseball career like Nolan Ryan’s.

But it seems like he gets a lot more attention than other greater pitchers. Maybe I’m way off saying that but that’s just the way it seems. And I think that was what was in Jason Stark’s mind (but I didn’t see him on the show so I don’t know).

As far as me “scolding” anyone who says Ryan was the greatest pitcher, I don’t think it’s wrong to disagree with someone about who the greatest living pitcher is and to point out valid reasons you think they are wrong. How would we get anywhere? Obviously you shouldn’t name-call or attack people personally but I don’t think your an a-hole for disagreeing and bringing up points to show why.

By Matthew, Dad to Walter

May 22, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, strong 1:52. I’m not into bashing Shaun (or anyone for that matter, even the Grinch and his debauchery…picking at you, Grinch). But Nolan Ryan had “it” and should be considered if not among the greatest pure pitchers (a la Greg Maddux) then definitely one of the most intimidating. No one can convince me that some of those Ks came as a result of younger players soiling themselves in the batter’s box out of pure fear at Ryan’s presence. No one throws SEVEN no-hitters without having some dominant stuff.

Off-Topic Question for Non-Georgian Brave Fans, or Those Who Watch the Braves on TV

How do you enjoy the Braves on TV? My routine is to fix a large glass of sweet iced tea and find my way to the recliner. If its a night game, I am usually sitting in the chair with my 8 month-old son, whose first words, “Da da” came this weekend! If he is already asleep, then I have a bowl of popcorn or a bowl of beefy nachos (a healthy diet for Braves games is VERY IMPORTANT). What about ya’ll? BTW, is ya’ll acceptable speech in GA?

Go Braves!

By DonCoburleone

May 22, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

I know I’m a little late on the Andruw Jones situation, but I’m gonna give a take anyway… AJ has always been a streaky hitter, but for some reason it seams different this year. He is showing less plate discipline than ever before and his mechanics look more screwed up than ever before. I remember at the tail end of 2005 was the first time I saw his “current” swing in action. I remember thinking to myself, “oh, he must have new cleats or something cuz it looks like he’s slipping on every big swing.” But, last year the same swing continued and I started to wonder what was up. Of course, neither you or I really said anything cuz he still wound up with 41HR’s and 128RBI. I really do think it’s different this year though; something ain’t right. I think he’s let his mechanics go so much over the last year and a half that there is no turning back. I mean come on, he got a PLATINUM SOMBRERO (5 strikeouts) in the game against Boston (I don’t even think Adam Dunn has accomplished that feat)… His swing is completely out of wac and his pompous a$$ attitude only makes it (near) impossible to change… I wouldn’t be surprised if he hit around .220 with less than 30HR’s this year…

By Jake

May 22, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget that Nolan Ryan pitched for some horrid teams in his career.

By Matthew, Dad to Walter

May 22, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Oops, the Ryan comment should have read “No one can convince me that some of those Ks did not come as a result of younger players soiling themselves in fear.”

Just to clarify.

By JasonInMaine

May 22, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Question:

If you could take one pitcher at the top of his game for a single game 7, who would it be?

By Glass Half Full

May 22, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Carol has a new BLOG up

By meansonny

May 22, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

I’m not a proponent of Nolan Ryan as a top 10 pitcher of all-time.

But I do like to cherry pick a few stats that make people go whoa…

Career ERA 3.19 5,714 Strikeouts (more than Glavine and Smoltz combined) 222 Career Complete Games 61 Career Shutouts (almost 1 in every 8 starts) 7 Times No-Hitter 8 Seasons under 3.00 ERA

The fact is that he has done things NOBODY could do.

His win-loss is reflective of the teams he played on. His ERA is a little bit indicative of the era he played in (He was only -0.38 better than the league in his career ERA)

But to be as good as he was for as long as he did it, is amazing. Again he’s probably not in the top 10 among starting pitchers of all-time. But his feats definitely deserve mentioning and earn him consideration.

By meansonny

May 22, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Great topic Matthew…

I usually get thirsty for a Coke for some reason. Tall glass full of ice. Plenty of refills.

Popcorn or icecream are nice for the evening games.

I’ve usually got my rugrats sitting with me or playing with action figures in front of the TV. The “Tommy Chop” is a family favorite.

Anyway, I’ll fess up that I do view a lot of the games on TV despite being a Georgia boy. It’s about a 2 hour trip to the stadium from where I live (kind of tough with 3 kids 3 and under). But we manage to chear loud. And we stand-up and root anytime we please.

Go Braves!!! Beat da Mets!!!

By Shaun

May 22, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine,

Roger Clemens, post WWII.

Back in the real old days, Walter Johnson.

By Coach

May 22, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

I’m not arguing for or against Ryan , I’m just giving you the facts. He dominated with his 100 mph fastball(even past the age of 40) for the better part of a quarter century. He was effectively wild to the point that batters wondered whether that 100 mph heater would end up in their ear or in the catchers mitt , but he did become a much better control pitcher after he went to Houston in 1980. His 5714 K’s are a record first but so are his 2795 walks. Even so , thats a two to one ratio and lets not forget those seven no-hitters. One stat that just makes your jaw drop is his 301 K to 98 walk ratio at the age of 42. He averaged seven innings a start with a career 3.19 ERA , numbers which are indicative of a pitcher who gave his team a chance to win. Anybody who wouldn’t want this fierce competitor on their team during his playing days just didn’t want to win. Nolan Ryan was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1999 , in his first year of eligibility with 98.79 percent of the vote , just six votes short of a unanimous election. After all , 324 wins and 5714 strikeouts makes it easy to forget those 292 losses and 2795 walks.

By MBATL

May 22, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

If you could take one pitcher at the top of his game for a single game 7, who would it be?

I’d suggest Pedro Martinez in 2000. His ERA (1.74) was 35 pct of the league average, and a ridiculous .737 WHIP.

Without going back into the dark ages (i.e., before I was born), I rank Maddux (‘94 or ‘95), Bob Gibson (‘68). Clemens is great, of course, but he’s never posted the kind of miniscule ERA that these guys have.

Of course Gibson threw 28 complete games in his amazing ‘68 season, and baseball is just not played that way any more… so it’s hard to compare. What if he’d been pulled in the 7th more often? His ERA would probably have been even lower than the 1.67 he posted.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

FlBraves Girl-Wayne already won the Wurlitzer for Poetry. His prize is a portrait of Dale Murphy. That’s what he requested. Carroll-The point was that no one will offer anything for Andruw the way he is playing now.

By Coach

May 22, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Good question, Jason. But , from what Era ? That would be a long list. I’ll narrow it down to the present day and go with Johan Santana. The man is unhittable when pitching at the top of his game.

By wg

May 22, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Lucky me. I got to see 2 out of the 3 games in Boston last week. Guess which 2. Huddy did not look bad other than 1st inning. Better hitting with runners on base would have won that game. AJ looked putrid. I’ve never seen him look this bad. It’s a good thing they got to use the DH otherwise we really would have been hard pressed to keep the pace. I hope Boras and company are loosing a lot of sleep. Hopefully, we can get a couple of good games this week from Davies and Chucky but who knows. THE WRONG TEAM LEFT BOSTON !!!!!

By David O'Brien

May 22, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

MBATL, check Kevin Brown’s stats for Florida in 1996. I covered that Marlins team, and have never seen as dominant a single-season performance. Overpowering, nasty, dominant almost every time out. Got no run support, or he’d have won 22 or more games. Threw a no-hitter that year at Candlestick.

By Ron

May 22, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Jayson Stark is a huge Philly fan, at least thats what I have heard!!! He is jealous, I guarantee you that if he played for the Phillies he would say Andruw is the most UNDERATED Center Fielder in the game, even though Jones is not overated or underated, he is simply the BEST!!! I think I heard Mike and Mike talk about Stark one day, and Mike Greenberg said that he is a Huge Phillies Fan!!! I heard it somewhere if it was not there!!!

By MBATL

May 22, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, I don’t think that year (Brown in ‘96) was as statistically dominating as some of the guys I mentioned, but stats aren’t everything. Brown was definitely awesome in ‘96.

By Coach

May 22, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

The most dominant single season performance of all time , no question whatsoever , hands down the best of all time : Dwight Gooden in 1985.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Coach-Most dominant rookie season, maybe. The best all time is Steve Carlton. He went 27-10 with a 1.3 ERA for a team that won 58 games.

By Lew

May 22, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Excuse me. 1.97 ERA. He had 30Complete games and struck out 310 batters in 346 IP with 8 shutouts. All for a team that LOST 104 games. In two successive games he won won 2-1 when he tripled in the winning run and the next he won 1-0 when he hit a HR. If he had pitched for even a mediocre team, he would have won 35 games, bare minimum.

By joebrave

May 22, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

SJA,I do my best bro,can’t stand a damn Mutt or their fans,and why is everyone still debunking an A.J. trade, IT AIN”T GONNA HAPPEN,and now Dontrelle Willis is available,I kind of doubt it,not unless you have half a team to give them,If Willis were available for two minor leaguers don’t you think J.S. would have him already,Oh the Humanity!!!!

where’s them no good for nothin Mutts fans, what the he11 is wrong with you gutless peckergnats,you guys absent after a hard days work,My ol lady is gone and I need somebody to smack around,bunch of @ssholes……

What’s up Lew, how’sthe feet man I hope your better, SJA that was funny man thanks, DOB dude your the greatest blogmaster of all time… Shaun your a dumb@ss,what the he11 is out avoidance,and why is it even a matter of discussion,out avoidance is sitting your no hitting @ss on the bench,so you don’t kill a damn rally,or staying away from the buffet table,those are the only two things that good ol a.J. needs right now…..

gotta write some more Insurance checks before the game so here’s to kicking some Mutt @ss later on and I’ll see you guys later….

By joebrave

May 22, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

SJA,I do my best bro,can’t stand a damn Mutt or their fans,and why is everyone still debunking an A.J. trade, IT AIN”T GONNA HAPPEN,and now Dontrelle Willis is available,I kind of doubt it,not unless you have half a team to give them,If Willis were available for two minor leaguers don’t you think J.S. would have him already,Oh the Humanity!!!!

where’s them no good for nothin Mutts fans, what the he11 is wrong with you gutless peckergnats,you guys absent after a hard days work,My ol lady is gone and I need somebody to smack around,bunch of @ssholes……

What’s up Lew, how’sthe feet man I hope your better, SJA that was funny man thanks, DOB dude your the greatest blogmaster of all time… Shaun your a dumb@ss,what the he11 is out avoidance,and why is it even a matter of discussion,out avoidance is sitting your no hitting @ss on the bench,so you don’t kill a damn rally,or staying away from the buffet table,those are the only two things that good ol a.J. needs right now…..

gotta write some more Insurance checks before the game so here’s to kicking some Mutt @ss later on and I’ll see you guys later….

By Efrim

May 22, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Got to win 2 outta 3. It is a must.

By laurance maney

May 22, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with DOB that “Now that we’ve all had a week to moan and complain about everything wrong with the Braves, perhaps a step back and a realistic appraisal is in order,” but the reality is that you guys have been complaining about Andruw for years now. Be realistic. He’s hitting .50 to .60 below his historic average (except for his .303 year batting second) and you guys want him benced or dropped the bottom of the order, or maybe even platooned again with Michael Tucker. Manny Ramirez in Boston is hitting .80-.90 points below his historiv average, has the same 6 HRs AJ has and fewer runs batted in and no one cares since they know it won’t last. You guys must be stuck in the past when half the breakfast crowd at the Majestic Diner were nodding out over their eggs and the Braves were truly pathetic or maybe it is Pellegra induced psychosis from all the grits you eat, but whatever the cause the general feeling down there that possibly the best center fielder in Baseball history who hits an average of 36-38 HRs and 110 RBIs a year is a pariah is truly inexpicable. I can’t what to hear what you all write when and if he walks. “AJ has no loyalty, etc” Well do you guys have any?

By jb

May 22, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

Andruw must change his approach. He will not go on a hot streak soon. One guy said it, alrealy. He looked terrible swinging at a hanging breaking ball down the middle. That is a pitch tailor made for his awful pull the ball and swing for the fence swing. Contrary to what he is saying, “it is a big deal!” He is just way to nonchalant about letting the team down. (That was 5 strike outs he had in one game.) Watch Thorman as he grounds out to end a rally, he hustles to first and shows his frustration at the end by hitting his helmet. Come on Andruw. Wake up, watch tape, listen to TP, and do something about your approach. Until you do, the opposing pitchers do not have to. Look at Frenchy, he is getting more inside pitches to hit, because he lays off or goes the other way on the outside pitches.

By Coach

May 22, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Wrong answer Lew , You might actually want to take a long hard look at Gooden’s game logs in 1985.