Braves

By RedEyedAndBlue

April 25, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Good to point out Frenchy great stats, DOB. What a difference a season makes. But gotta say, too, what a difference eight games makes for Kelly Johnson. Prior to the Washington series many pundits and several of us on this blog were lumping KJ in the same discussion with Langy and Thorman when asking “when would __ hit?” Since 17 April, KJ has hit .500 (14-28) with a .611 on-base percentage. Currently he is tied for second in the league in walks, eighth in the league in OBP, and thirteenth in OPS. Most importantly he is high among the league leaders in an underrated stat for leadoff men – runs scored. He’s fourth in the league in that category.

By Dennis

April 25, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

I see Oscar Villereal in the rotation soon. Redman has done nothing to get hitters out. With Comier returning I also think Davies stays.

Ultimately we will need to address our LF problem.

By Josh GT

April 25, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I’ve heard a lot about James’ mental make-up. I hear that he’s pretty resilient. Apparently, most of the veterans feel that he’ll be just fine. I haven’t heard as much about Davies. Can you off any insight on how he’s holding up?

By Rodger

April 25, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Frenchy’s “en fuego”. He seems to have developed, in just the last week and a half to two weeks, a LOT more discipline. Is he watching KJ, Hoss, & BMac, since the AJ method wasn’t working? He’s a smart kid, but with enough arrogance to be sort of stubborn about change. If he doesn’t lose focus, this could be an incredible year for him. We definitely need it from him. It does make him a little more expensive though…

By SomeYahoo77

April 25, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

DOB, good word on Francoeur. I just beg and plead that he takes that first pitch every time he goes up there and he’s left me cussing less and less this year. Makes one excited about the possibilities of a patient Francoeur.

Was wondering about your thoughts on the piece by Jon Heyman over at SI.com about Bobby not being the best Mgr. in baseball (he was referencing the extension and Schurholz’s comments about Bobby’s career), and then slapping him in the face by putting five other current guys ahead of him: LaRussa, Leyland, Scioscia, Torre and Pinella.

This might have been discussed in this forum so please point me to the appropriate blog if it has, but I wanted to get your take on just how absurd Heyman’s picks for that list were.

Thanks for writing stuff that makes me feel connected to the home team out here in the baseball purgatory of Dodgerland.

By Shaun

April 25, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Yes, some of the offensive numbers aren’t impressive, but the ones that matter are: Of course, runs, OBP, and SLG isn’t all that bad.

And, yes, most of the late-inning numbers are impressive but the Braves aren’t hitting that well in the 8th inning at all—.203 AVG/ .298 OBP/ .405 SLG

The Braves most impressive inning is the First Inning: .337 AVG/ .437 OBP/ .535 SLG.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Powderfinger is a great song. Jeff Francoeur has been playing great. I’m hoping that tonight Huddy pitches great.

I think it’s gonna take a LOT more hammering into people’s heads that Redman probably isn’t going anywhere for a while. Count me as somewhat concerned about the Braves starting pitching, this year and especially beyond. People forget that Cormier’s health prognosis hasn’t exactly been glowing in his rehab. We can probably get the occasional good start out of Davies and the occasional offensive explosion behind Redman, but we need Smoltz to be better past the 5th inning and Chuck James has to be a consistently good pitcher (I’m optimistic about James).

By Rodger

April 25, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

How much do you think it would take for Knucksie to come out of retirement?

By IMFO

April 25, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

Grinch, why did you take your horse and park it in a bank foyer?

By Efrim

April 25, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Well, if no one is available in trades, then we have to keep going with Kyle Davies. Mark Redman needs to go. If Cormier is healthy, then he needs to take Redman’s spot. Lets stretch out Villareal too. Once Paronto comes back, Villareal should be considered as a starter.

By Mike S

April 25, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Diaz will go 4 for 4 tonight and raise his average to .280.

By Chop Chop

April 25, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

If Francoeur puts together a .280/30/120/.345 OBP season and the team stays mostly healthy, the Braves will be in the playoffs.

By Henry

April 25, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

The great starts of Francoeur, McCann and Hudson and the surging Kelly Johnson so far have us winning despite the poor performances from left field, first base, and the fourth and fifth starters. (Of course, this completely takes for granted ol Hoss, Andruw, Renteria and Smoltz). All the voices here who demand CHANGES NOW whenever a bad pitch is thrown make me laugh, especially thinking back to the end of spring training when some were wondering if we should trade some of our “excess starting pitching.” The fact is that JS and BC have put together just about the best team possible for $80m in today’s market. It was worth taking a flier on Redman for the ridiculously low price we got; we’ve pretty much gotten our money’s worth there. Barring injury, the rotation and starting line-up aren’t going to change until Cormier gets back and replaces the lesser of two evils — and I’m hoping it’s Redman who gets replaced — or one of the left-fielders comes alive.

In other words, I’m sure JS and BC are reasonably happy with what they’ve gotten so far. Those who demand immediate changes, or brilliant trades in April, or instant karma, or whatever: there’s a reason you’re not in charge of the team. Sit back and enjoy the show.

By Hunter

April 25, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, ever given Amos Lee a listen? Big fan here.

By JMar

April 25, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

“hang on to your seats _ his on-base percentage (.368) is actually closer to .300 than .400.”

I think you might have that reversed, DOB

By Braves Fan in MIA

April 25, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

I had the pleasure of watching the past two games and let me tell you, this team’s attitude is VASTLY different from anything I’ve seen in the past three years. Monday I sat on the 3rd base side and watched the team’s faces after at-bats and coming into the dugout and there was a definite, Never-Say-Die attitude. Tuesday I sat on the 1st base side and got to look into the dugout. The bench seems MUCH more into the game than in the past few years and, perhaps most importantly, the batters (up and down the line-up) in the On-Deck circle and In the Hole were closely scrutinizing the pitcher… then at the plate they were MUCH more patient than in the past few years.

I am so excited about this team… new attitude at the plate and absolutely dominating firepower in the ‘pen. Hudson and Smoltz will hold down the fort while the rest of the rotation gets it going.

Last point (and sorry for the long post). Frenchy is CRUSHING the ball. His hits the past two nights have sounded like cannon shots and he is LOCKED IN. He (and KJ) have great knowledge of the zone, as was evidenced by Francoeur jawing with the umpire when he was rung up on a questionable third strike.

GO BRAVES!!!

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the Blog DOB, and for posting those fantastic numbers. Hopefully this Colorado series will raise the Braves batting line to a more respectable level. I look forward to seeing what comes of Davies and Cormier. I hope James keeps the ball down in Denver.

I’d like to know more about this Wilson shoulder problem. Has it been officially looked at by a doctor? The guy hasn’t made many long throws in the past month, it’s gotta be feeling better by now. Either that or it’s shot. Fixing his shoulder would give Diangerhans the chance to relax on the bench and stop pressing at the plate. Then maybe they can get back to hitting with some level of respect.

Thor and KJ are going to be just fine. Especially if Thor gets the everyday role. I don’t mind if he sits here and there, but he should be in the majority of the time. Maybe, since Wilson can’t throw, we should go with Thor in LF and Wilson at 1B until Daingerhans has had time to rest.

I’m looking forward to another dominate outing by Hudson tonight. We’re tied for first right now!

GO BRAVES

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

KJ got hot and looks awesome, Francoeur got hot and looks awesome. Next candidate to have a tear raise his numbers back to where they should be: Andruw Jones.

By Efrim

April 25, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Also, Chuck James has to get deeper into games. He hasn’t given up a ton of runs yet, but he needs to have better control. Too many 3 ball counts.

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

IMFO, more importantly, how did I wind up in Germany? I was riding that horse on 285. :-)

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Afternoon gang,

DOB, Frenchy’s numbers of late have been welcome indeed. I think he’ll be right around the numbers you are projecting. Never been a person to throw out projections or such, however I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few more homers and right at the BA you’re predicting, maybe a few points lower, but close.

I am frustrated with the performance from both Redman and Langerhans to this point, but again, I’ll say that Redman was (and continues to be) a dice roll taking a chance on getting some innings on the back side of the rotation. Realistically, this is what we have right now and this is what it will be until we get closer to the trade deadline. The Villareal idea to the rotation is an interesting one, but guys, again realistically, we’re talking about starter number four in the rotation. I think it’s much more important for the long term health of the rotation that Davies improves on his last outing than worrying about a rotation spot that odds are can only be improved marginally anyway, or by subtracting from the bullpen.

Watching Langerhans flounder has been just uncomfortable for me to watch. A lot has been said about the man and there’s no doubt in my mind that he’s trying to turn things around. I feel like we are able to give Langerhans/Diaz a little more time to work out of it until we get a clearer picture of what kind of trade market there will be, or what kind of help will be available from Richmond or Mississippi.

The mets lost in what has to be a disappointing businessperson’s special in Flushing. We have Hudson going against the Fins tonight in the rubber match. The seesaw that is the NL East race may be in motion again this evening.

Loved your post on the last blog CL. You realize, of course, that you have thousands of fans trying to figure out how to get Redman and/or Langerhans in a refrigerator now right? :-)

By ncscoots

April 25, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

oh golly, LMAO, it’s really, really tempting to go back to last year’s archives and pull some of the posts by some our esteemed bloggers regarding Francoeur’s lack of a future. As if 22-year-olds have no chance to improve…ever. Sorry, there aren’t enough initials in blogdom to really express the humor I see in it :-)

It would be no shock to me to write this same post next year in regards to Davies, either.

By eware

April 25, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

DOB, after Moylan’s great appearance last night, I think he could be our long reliever. Maybe then we could shift Villareal to the starting rotation. I thought he did an adequate job last season. Far better than Redman and Davies right now. Just a thought.

I also remember Moylan having some good long relief innings last year as well.

I think Villareal is our wild card waiting to be played in some situation - maybe a starter, maybe trade bait.

By N8

April 25, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Christy

(From the other Blog)

“N8 - saw the heyman story. Had one thought occur to me. JS may be more responsible overall, but 3 of the 5 that heyman listed as key to the overall success of the Braves: Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, Chipper and Andruw were brought into the Braves system by Bobby while he was GM from ‘85 - 90 - including Chipper… Seems to me that lends more support to Bobby being one of the great managers, and eyes for talent.”

I agree with you. In fact I actually emailed Heyman to tell him the same thing, not that it matters.

By Baron

April 25, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

ERA: 4.20

ERA minus Redman: 3.50

ERA minus Redman and Davies: 3.22

Pretty good, really. Two bad those guys are starters.

Might be a good idea to look at the games Redman has to start as long relief situations from the first batter on. Try and prep Villereal, Moylan, Yates, et al., to go 2-3 innings on those days if neccessary, and have a quick hook on all of ‘em- Redman especially. Redman need not even be the starter. If you could average 2.1 quality innings from 3 guys you’re suddenly into the eighth inning and Gonzo/Sorio are ready to go to work. Call it starter by committee. Could trim an extra AB off the pitcher’s hole, to boot. I know we all want to see more of Wilson and Woodward.

It’s pretty much what happens now anyway. Perhaps by planning for it, particularly how you use the middle reliever guys in other games, it may prove marginally more successful.

I know this plan has been used before, and recently, but I can’t remember who. This is the stop-gappiest of situations, obviously. Just seems like it’s time to try anything.

By JasonInMaine

April 25, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What are your thoughts concerning Freddie’s intentional walk of Langerhans? I can’t see where it made any sense whatsoever, including the setting up of the force out at any base.

Regards,

Jason

By Mike S

April 25, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

I am really tired of hearing our problem in LF and even at 1b so I will bring up another minor problem that we have. The commentators were discussing our lack of moving runners over with less than 2 outs last night. This could be a problem come October so when should we address it.

By A.J.

April 25, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

“it’s been fun watching him, particularly on this road trip.”

That is another exciting aspect to his breakout right now is that he’s doing it on the road, where he has been awful up until now.

Last season in 81 road games he hit just 10 HR, 38 RBI, batting .217, with a .248 OBP and a .369 SLG%. That’s a .617 OPS This season his road OPS is .891.

So to recap, he is hitting as well as ever for power, but he is taking pitches, getting on base, hitting when it matters, at home or on the road. Wow, that’s exciting.

For my money he is already a better hitter than Andruw is at his best. He is proving that if we lose Druw, he can step up and be a consistent pillar for this team.

Still, what will be most interesting to see is his next slump. How long it lasts, how bad it is (will he be completely worthless, or just not as good as usual, will he still get on base some, will he still advance runners, etc.), and how good he is when he heats back up.

Still I’m excited, he’s finally proven that he can adjust to what pitchers started doing to him after July 05 and achieve a lot of that potential.

Also, how about Brian McCann giving him the tip before the first Marlins game. The kid is just smart. I will bet right this minute that McCann will be a major league manager within five years after he retires. Shoot, I like TP, but you can make McCann player/hitting coach right now for all I care. He just knows his business. He’s like Tony Gwynn as a catcher.

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Correction to my post, we’re talking about starter number five in terms of Redman these days.

By 3trees

April 25, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Good stuff DOB and props to all the guys contributing to those 2 out hitting/RBI stats. How great is it to have Renteria on this team? Always admired his play. Don’t think anyone mentioned it, but we scored all those late runs last night w/o home runs (sometime referred to as “hack & jack). Francouer is looking very good at present. He’s shown he can adjust. Now the league will have to re-adjust - and so it goes.

I think we’re just going to have to wait until Cormier gets back to see how the pitching will turn. I guess I haven’t seen him enuff (and I don’t make my living as a ML scout), but I’m having trouble figuring out what the Braves brass sees in Davies. His fast ball hasn’t got much movement, he has trouble locating his curve for strikes AND he nibbles way too much. I know he’s young, but he needs to figure out how to get batters out when his stuff ain’t 100%.

Now for music - What a great tune! One of my all-time favs. I always think about Ken Kesey’s “Sometimes a Great Notion” when I hear that tune. Wonderful record. Good ‘ol Neil.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 25, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Good blog DOB. Frenchy has earned the adulation and props with something more than his considerable raw talent - patience and maturing. A very similiar situation to our Frenchy/Baby Huey one is Mauer/Morneau up in Minnesota. Both young, one a pure hitter (funny, he’s a catcher too) and one a free swinging power hitter. Tori Hunter was interviewed by Dibble & Kennedy yesterday about the situation. Said pitchers are approaching them differently, busting them inside more, etc. Mauer has taken it in stride, being ever selective and getting good at bats. Morneau is having to learn to be patient, selective, and not try to yank everything out of the park, which Hunter says he’s struggling with. I am so pleased that Francouer is taking walks, going the other way with pitches on the outside part of the plate, and in general, just raising his offensive prowess to an entirely different level over last year.

By the way - I’m going to send a case of Dom Perignon to the Braves clubhouse, with a card signed by Jose Reyes. That’s about the only way to keep that damned guy off the basepath.

By IMFO

April 25, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Well, you were drinking a German beer, thinking of the Germanbravesfan, and poof there you go, leaving your horse in a German bank!

By gotigers72

April 25, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Thanks for making me feel more comfortable by saying the Braves will eventually sign Francoeur and make sure he stays a Brave. He is a superstar in the making IMO. A five tool type guy. He’ll steal more bases in the future as he learns more about reading pitchers.

I read somewhere that he was disappointed in his average last year, felt he was better than a .260 hitter. He said he was going to work hard to become a better hitter for average, and from the looks of his approach this year, it looks like he will do so. I will go along with your predicted stats, except I think his average will be higher, maybe more like .290. I am glad to see him doing so well because he is playing for the Braves, but also because he signed a football scholarship with my Clemson Tigers before being drafted by the Braves. He is a Clemson guy in his heart. Tommy Bowden told him that anytime he wants, his scholarship is still there. Don’t think that will happen though.

Here is my suggestion for solving the starting rotation problem. When Paronto comes back, swallow Redman’s contract and get rid of him. Then move Oscar to the starting rotation for the time being. He was decent in that role last year, certainly would be better than Redman.

By the way DOB, my copy of Astral Weeks came in the mail this week, and I have listened to it every day. You were right about how good it is and about how I wonder how I’ve never heard it before. There is another CD by him that I heard at a friend’s house one night that I don’t know the name of. Maybe you can help. We were drinking Vodka, solving the world’s problems, listening to music, when he put on this Morrison CD. I just quit talking, closed my eyes and listened until the CD ended. It just blew me away. Had a real jazzy sound to it, not a bad song on the CD. I later asked my friend the name of it, but he said it was his son’s CD and he didn’t know the name. Unfortunately, his son took it with him back to college and I still don’t know the name of it. Thanks in advance if you can help me.

By MGL

April 25, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

OK, it is a lefty night, does that mean we will see Woodward and Wilson?

By Alan

April 25, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

DOB, great stuff as always. I’m one of those early on who said Francoeur is going to be a star, so I’m not surprised at what he’s doing. I’m also one of those (not too many of us, BTW) who also praised the Redman signing, which means - essentially - I don’t know what I’m talking about. Which is what blogging is all about, right? The Braves have been coming through in the clutch, and it’s been great to witness. So far, the season’s been a lot of fun. No reason for it not to continue all year. Let’s hope Hudson keeps up his terrific work tonight. Oh yeah, I’ve also been just a tad critical of him, too. I’d better shut up for a while.

By Fed Up

April 25, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

Facing a lefty tonight. That’s almost a guaranteed loss. We get to watch Wilson and Diaz make 8 easy outs. Man, I hope Bobby doesn’t play Woodward. That would mean a minimum of 12 easy outs.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 25, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Redman’s salary - assuming the Braves payroll is $80 mil, Redman’s $750k is less than 1% of total payroll. Given that he is currently responsible for 28.5% of our losses to date, I’d say we’re way upside down on this deal already. As I said last night, I’m all for replacing him in the rotation with Oscar. Or Bert, or Ernie, or Big Bird, or the Count, or Elmo, and anybody. But, from Bobby’s comments reported this morning, looks like he’ll get a chance to lose at least 2 or 3 more games for us. A starting pitcher with an ERA of 10. Yikes!!

By BabyGoatEater

April 25, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox is the greatest manager in baseball. Hands down. Bobby has consistently made average teams good, good teams great, and occasionally great teams champions. If you look around the majors most managers are waisting talent.(Cubs, Yankees, Phillies) Bobby somehow gets the best out of players. Just ask the players Mr. Heyman.

By the way how can you put any active manager above Bobby other that La Russa. Isn’t winning games what a manager is supposed to be judged by?

Sorry for the rant, Im sure most of this audience agrees but I think we all should do a little to stand up for a great manager, even if big market writers don’t think so.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em: Brilliant idea. If the Braves get swept by any team, that’s our move. We shower that other team with gifts in the name of Reyes and Oliver Perez. 3 years later we’ll have 3 WS rings and another good streak going. The Mets on the other hand will be just about to the end of Reyes contract.

By Chop Chop

April 25, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

N8, the Braves actually lucked into Chipper Jones. The consensus #1 overall pick in the 1990 MLB Draft was Todd Van Poppel, but ol’ Todd wanted a ton of money and didn’t want to go to a bad team like the Braves. He ended up being picked by the A’s, who were the defending World Series champs. The next year, the Braves went from worst to first and made a World Series appearance. And the rest, they say, is history.

As for Todd Van Poppel, we hardly knew ye.

By Rivers

April 25, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Great read as always and great dylan song…Check out Acoustic Syndicate they do a great version of Powderfinger…

Redman is a rag arm so how bad was the tightness that cormier experienced and if you had to look into the scrap heap crystal ball who do you think might be available that shore up our back end of the rotation?

By Coach

April 25, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Just to clarify the facts: Smoltz was traded to the Braves when Cox was the GM , Glavine was drafted in 1984 the year before Cox became the GM , Chipper was drafted by Cox in 1990 , Andruw was drafted by Schuerholz and Maddux was signed as a free agent by Schuerholz in 1992. Well , the Mets got spanked in their day game 11-5 and Huddy has the opportunity to put us back in first. I’m loving the offense , Francoeur is locked in. Don’t be surprised if and when McCann cranks 35-40 home runs. Can the bat boy play left field ?

By CT

April 25, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Is there any chance we can get Josh Hamilton from the Reds? This kid is on fire and the Reds don’t have room for him to play every day.

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Dort hast du est, mein freund. Geheimnis loste.

Please god no Woodward tonight…please no.

Greg in TN, good idea! We could dispose of Langy and Redman by coating them in BBQ sauce, shoving them in the clubhouse fridge, and telling Wicky there’s some leftover Boston Butt from Sonny’s inside. :-)

By Brent

April 25, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

that article was absurd. How Pinella is ahead of Bobby I’ll never understand. there is no doubt that Bobby has had a lot of talent to work with, but part of what makes him great is that he keeps those great players happy, healthy, and productive. How many talented players have fallen apart while on the Braves? almost none, because Bobby puts little pressure on them, manages them well, and knows how to play to their strengths. On top of that, Bobby has for the morst part kept his pitching staff healthy (with the main exception beign Smotlz).

Its easy to say a great manager was only great because he had talent on the team. but look at the teams over the years who have more talent, and just can’t get it together. The Dodgers year after year, Phillies as well. Even the Yankees have had some seasons of horrible underproduction (although those 4 titles in the 90’s give Torre a free pass).

Bobby is the very model of consistency, he wins every year, and that is not something that can happen from the player’s talent alone.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 25, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

OK folks. It’s Beer O’Clock. Here’s hoping Bobby lets Thor play tonight, and that Huddy brings his nasty stuff. By the way, where’s No Chop? Time for him to eat some crow, after we win tonight and take first back. The bleat goes on……

By sri

April 25, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, nice blog as always.. Does TP have anything to say about Langy’s slump? have’nt seen any comments anywhere about that.. am pretty sure Langy is putting in extra time in cages.. similarly does McDowell helping Redman figure things out? or usually do they leave the veterans alone?. What do you feel about James reaching 100pitches by the 5th inning in most of his starts? Trouble putting away the hitters? or too many balls?

By HawaiiBrave

April 25, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

A view of Braves record last season, first 80 Games: 20 Games (9 - 11) 40 Games (20 - 20) 60 Games (29 - 31) 80 Games (34 - 46) Toast I like this team. Long season. Luck, injuries, and coaching comes into play. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.

By Fred from CT

April 25, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

chipper is very quietly off to a good start. I think chipper is a legitmate MVP candidate. I will make that prediction right now screw reyes. chipper for MVP. chipper .325 avg 38 HR 115 RBI and 135 runs scored.

By BossLady

April 25, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

The excitement of the Babybraves is catching. They seem to really appreciate when good things happen.

By KC

April 25, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Grinch: We’re in section 107R-row 8.

Huddy on the mound tonight… Strange… for some reason, every time he pitches, it makes be think of BBQ and beverages. =)

By DonCoburleone

April 25, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

“I’m worried about our pitchers getting crushed in Colorado in the next series.”

Okay, now for all you uninformed baseball fans… Lets remember this is not the same Rockies we remember as kids okay? Currently, they have 9 home-runs (good for LAST in the national league) and a slugging percentage near the bottom of the league also… The coors field image has been fading for the last 5 years and every game is NOT an 11-10 final anymore.

By Mitchie-san

April 25, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

I really dont want to hear what Robert has to say about that Bobby article. He probably has been typing up his first post for the past few hours….

By Gil in Mechanicsville

April 25, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Somehow I don’t think Bobby Cox cares very much about one writer’s opinion of where he ranks as a manager. I am of the mind that as long as his boss is happy with his performance and he can face himself in mirror everyday he is pretty satisfied with his life. I wonder how many of us can say that?

By Panic in the Classic City

April 25, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Dave what do you predict Frenchys OPS to be?

I agree on a .345 OBP would be great. I want to say itll be higher but .345 might even be optimistic by the end of the year. I think his OPS will be sky high and just a couple more homers like 34-36. 120 RBIs sound great too

Man i love powderfinger. Panic covered Last Dance by neil young for the closer the first night in athens. jammin mon

By BamaBrave

April 25, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Ahhhhh…Powderfinger…it takes me back to sophomore year at the College of Charleston…altered states, and a certain tanned coed in short shorts. Mmmmmm. “Rust Never Sleeps” on the Pioneer turntable…jumping out of Bose 301s. Thanks for the Trip, DOB.

Poor Davies…I hope he can get his head clear somehow. He reminds me of a golfer trying to think of 14 things as he swings the club. Like Joe Simpson, I wish he threw that north-south curve more…

By April

April 25, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

O Jackass, Jackass, Wherefore art thou, Jackass? Deny thy father and refuse thy name, your a Jackass just the same. Why are you so rough with this delicate flower?

By DonCoburleone

April 25, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, I was with you on the Francoeur bandwagon last year (and when he first came up). The guy has a major-power swing and he seems to ratchet up his concentration and ability in the most important situations. He really is becomming a feared hitter. No wonder his agent wouldn’t sign a deal similar to McCann’s, Francoeur could be an MVP one day…

I am NOT on the Kyle Davies bandwagon however (how could you be exactly?). He will NEVER be a quality major league pitcher! He doesn’t overpower anybody, his stuff is average, no real strikeout pitch, and he’s a HEADCASE. He just has a look about him, like he’s just not a winner. I don’t know, I hope he proves me wrong but I just don’t see it happening…

By tyyosh

April 25, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Speaking of patient approaches, the Braves have seemed to be more patient at the plate lately.

A quick check on espn.com shows they are averaging 3.91 pitches per plate appearance, as opposed to around 3.6-3.7 in years past, when they seemed impatient. This compares to notoriously patient Oakland at 3.94 this year. It is great to watch them grind down pitchers and jump on hittable pitches, like the Yankees of a few years ago did.

Does anyone know of a better site where this stat can be watched? It is a tedious manual process to get it from espn.com.

By rammerjammer

April 25, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks for the Frenchy stuff. He and KJ are it on a stick. Absolutely impressed with KJ’s plate discipline, and now Frenchy is going with the pitch.

And let’s give it up to JS and BC for making the KJ decision back when everyone said “what???”

Those guys know their stuff. No wonder everyone in baseball hates/admires the Braves.

By StingerSplash

April 25, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

(heavy breathing, in Darth Vader voice): You have learned well, young Jeff. Now it it is time to show your true power. (Sorry, long day at work, imagination runs wild, still watching that Jessica Biel clip on Letterman. Yow). Just wondering if Frenchy can keep up this pace (I mean, ESPN is 24 hours of A-Rod: The Record-Setting Pace. Can someone tell them legends and heroes are made in September and October, NOT April?) I really thought Frenchy could be a little bigger base stealer, but then again, I had the same thoughts about Andruw. But when you’re trotting around the bases 40-45 times, who cares how many bags you swipe?

DOB, from “Ronnie and Neil:” skynyrd was bunch of neil young fans neil loved that song so he wrote Powderfinger for skynyrd to record But ronnie ended up singing “Sweet Home Alabama” to the Lord.

By MBATL

April 25, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

No wonder his agent wouldn’t sign a deal similar to McCann’s,…

DonC, I’m not sure, but I didn’t think the Braves offered Jeff a longterm deal in the offseason. They just offered a 1-year deal at a slightly higer number; and Jeff and his agent inexplicably (given that they had zero leverage) refused it. So, as is their right, the Braves just assigned him a salary.

Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that’s how it played.

By Barrett

April 25, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Just so all you guys know, the Mets got killed today by the Rockies. Looks like the see-saw race is back on today….

Has anyone else noticed the constant pessimistic view that Mr. Terrance Moore always has? He is up there with Jim Rome when it come to annoying sports reporters/writers.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

It was reported Francoeur didn’t sign because he didn’t want to negotiate based on last years numbers. If that is the case and he truly does want to sign, I’m hoping he plays his @ss of this year, gets better numbers and works out a deal that’s fair to him, for his age and experience, and still allows the front office to field a competitive team around him. Getting all the money in the world and losing every year isn’t as fun as Tejada makes it sound.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

MBATL: You have it right I think. That is the way it appeared to go down. I’ve heard otherwise, but don’t know for sure. My previous post referred to 2nd hand information, so it could be incorrect. It could more went on behind the scenes but wasn’t made public.

By Coach

April 25, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Heyman’s Sports Illustrated article is ignorant. He should brush up on his history. Cox has won and won again. His six seasons of managing in the minors , he won. He picked up a world championship ring with the Yankees in 77 as the first base coach. Nineteen out of the twenty-five years he has managed those teams won. Every time Cox took over , the team improved. He won in his first stint in Atlanta and Ted Turner has repeatedly said he made a mistake when he fired Cox in 1981. Bobby won in Toronto , even took them to the playoffs. Everybody knows that Cox and the Braves made 14 straight playoff appearances , what people don’t realize is that he did it with different players and personnel every year. Cox was responsible for moving Dale Murphy to the outfield and it was a brilliant move. Cox may not be the greatest strategist or mind in the game today , but nobody is more respected by his peers and players. Believe me when I say this , there are twenty-five players in that dugout who would run through a wall if Bobby asked them to.

By Ron Roberts

April 25, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Some other figures to throw out… the Braves are tied for the MLB lead in walks with 93 and sixth in the majors in extra base hits, overall. So they get guys on base through whatever means, and when they do hit, it’s for at least two bases nearly 40% of the time. So they’re making the most of their opportunities. Look at it this way, if you added the walks to their current batch of hits, the team would be hitting .342, if you consider the old “a hit’s as good as a walk” axiom to be true. That’s why on base percentage is a better gauge for offensive performance is than just batting average. Of course, throw in the HBPs (hit by pitches) and you arrive at the .347 OBP the team currently has. And the Braves are fifth in the majors (fourth in the NL) in OBP.

As for Francoeur… he’s been the most pleasant (I don’t wanna say “surprise becaus we’ve all known he’s capable of what he’s doing)_ development thus far this season. He’s almost single-handedly picking up the slack we lost in shipping off LaRoche. If he can do that and Mike GOnzalez continues to look as good as he did the other night, we’re winners in that trade, whether LaRoche performs for the Bucs or not (and I think he’ll do his late first-half heat-up thing for ‘em soon enough).

On the rotation… I have to agree with those calling for Villareal to setp into the rotation once Paronto and McBride get back into form. I realize we’re a little light-handed in the ‘pen right now, and Redman’s worthless under just about any circumstance, but let’s be honest.. Oscar’s being penciled in as the “long relief” guy, which means we come for him when the starter tanks and usually that means we’re well behind already, right? It’s garbage time, nore often than not, so I say let Redman have itand switch him with Oscar going to the rotation.

Villareal stepped in last year and gave us some quality starts (notice the plural) which we can’t say for Redman. If we can get those five inning-or-so starts out of Villareal, aren’t we doing what we’d set out to do with our rebuilt bullpen, anyhow? We all know that we have Gonzo and Soriano for 7th and 8th inning duty and Wickman for the 9th… if we get what we usually got from Villareal when he started last year (5-6 innings of decent starts), then we’re keeping ourselves in these ballgames.

We’re not always (or even often) going to have the offensive output to undo Redman’s damage, so I think this is a no-brainer. Hell, we’re paying Oscar more than Redman, too, so let’s get more out of him. $750,000 for a garbage-time pitcher isn’t a complete waste; using him to throw games away for you as a starter would be!

By Train Wreck Bystander

April 25, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Well, sooner or later Frenchy will cool off. He’s streaky-good; consistency has yet to be proven.

But the great thing about this lineup is there are people who are ice cold right now who will heat up later. I’d be really worried if everyone was hot all at once.

I see the poll disagrees with me, but I really think Redmond will get his act together before Davies. Just a hunch.

By krath

April 25, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

I’m not much of a rah rah guy, never have been. But there is something I want to mention here.

The ALL STAR BALLOT is out!

I hate the process and think it’s pretty much of a joke. Quite honestly, I feel the fan vote should only account for perhaps 25% of the vote. Far too many times undeserving players get the nod over much more deserving guys because of the uneducated fan who simply recognizes a name and checks it…. no matter how bad that player may be sucking.

The system is in place whether I like it or not and no one cares what I think. You can vote a million times if you want!

So…… I just voted about a million times on MLB.com! lol We have to make sure that Bryan McCann takes his rightful place as the starter for the NL!!

I won’t go into much detail as to who I voted for but will say that I voted for another Brave and a couple of Mutts. I voted for a Marlin, a Cardinal, a Rocky and of course a couple other teams. No Phillie. No Giant.

And in the AL….. how do you not vote for A-Rod?

My personal opinion is that I won’t vote for someone who doesn’t deserve it even if they ARE on my team. But if someone on my team deserves the nod…. I’ll vote as often as I can to help the cause. But that’s just me.

We need to make sure Bryan McCann is the starter this year. It’s the right thing to do.

It’s a long time until July and if someone pops up and impresses me….. I”ll vote a few times for them. On the other hand, if someone falls off the radar…. I’ll pass on them.

It may be a bit too early to predict who will be the best in mid June…. but it’s not too early for Bryan McCann to get way behind in the voting if we don’t support him.

God help me…. the other Brave I voted for was Francouer! I’m not sold on him yet as the golden boy but can’t argue with leading the league in RBI.

By David O'Brien

April 25, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN: When I asked Bobby if Cormier would need at least another 2-3 rehab starts, he said “at least one more. If he feels 100 percent, I don’t know why he couldn’t go six [innings] up here if he goes 4 or 5 in his next [rehab] start. But we’ll see.”

In other words, they’re ready to get him up here _ yesterday.

And speaking of yesterday, Cox was quite revealing when asked how concerned he was with Redman.

“Well, nobody got hurt last night.” But then he added, “In my mind he’s just leaving spring training.”

The last line was meant as defense of Redman, since he only made a few spring starts after signing late with the Braves on March 9.

Unfortunately, Braves aren’t just leaving spring training. They’re nearly through the first month of the season, and need pitchers who give them a good chance to win….

Stinger, isn’t that a great verse from Ronnie and Neill? Love that song.

Bama, put on Powderfinger and I swear, it makes you just want to do something that matters, or at least something extremely fun, or at least go ride your motorcycle fast or play a game of pool or, if you’re like me and it came on while you were on the treadmill today on your Ipod, run like hell for about 4-5 minutes. Just an all-time terrific tune.

By David O'Brien

April 25, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

OH, and privately, several in Braves clubhouse said they were quite surprised when Fredi had his pitcher intentionally walk Langerhans in the ninth. Shocked, actually, a few of them said.

T.P. told Orr to go up expecting a bunch of curveball, since that’s clearly what they were going to throw him after walking Langerhans. They did, and he was expecting them.

By MBATL

April 25, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

Well, arguing is no fun unless there’s an opposing view, right?

Redman’s start against the Mets wasn’t all that bad: 5 ER in 5.2 innings; he was one out from getting through 6 in good shape, and considering what the Mets have done to just about every lefty they’ve faced (.354 BA, .949 OPS), really not that bad. And the start against the Cubs - 3 runs in 7 + innings, was very good. Florida has pounded him twice.

I don’t want him on the mound in Game Seven, but I think he’s catching more than his share here. I know that’s not the popular opinion (i.e., kick him to the curb), but it’s all I got. I’m fine with him getting a couple more starts until Cormier is ready; maybe, just maybe, he’ll still turn out to be an asset.

I also think Diaz and Langerhans will be fine. Just let ‘em play through it. You’ve got to be pretty unlucky to go 0-for-41, and those things have a way of turning around.

By Lew

April 25, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

MBATL-That was my understanding, too. Like you said-Zero Leverage. It was really pretty dumb on the agent’s part. He should have been fired for that stupidity.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 25, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

The key to Francoeur’s hot streak, in my opinion, is that he’s now laying off the breaking pitches out of the strike zone. He seems like he’s more selective now than he was last year. That said, he still needs to be willing to take more pitches and be a little more selective. As bad as the bottom third of the order is, Francoeur’s really the last guy in the order capable of providing some offense. It’s important that he continues to come through with runners on base.

By Jeff R

April 25, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

Villareal would be a logical choice to replace Redman, at least for the time being. If Davies can’t turn it around in the next start or two, Cormier should be ready to step up.

But caution…the Braves are 13-7 despite trouble with the staff. Granted, though the previous 11 games have seen poor performances by the starters, especially, it is anticipated that Smoltz and James will regain form. James may not be as sure a bet as Smoltz, but he’s got grit, and he’s a tough competitor. The pitching will come around.

By ChicagoDawg

April 25, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

The most impressive stat is the rate of BBs that he is drawing vs. ‘06. Last year, he walked once for every 29.3 trips to the plate (factoring in the total # of trips that are not technically included in the AB totals), while this year he is almost 3x as likely to draw a BB ~ every 10.6 trips.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

Well there is an A$sClown candidate ripe for banification…dirty-mouthed college boy…but he did make sense!…

April—what was that website again?

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Hear, Hear, Krath.

I vote for the All-Star game every year and vote for those deserving based on the first half of the season. I usually share it with others in the office and with friends. Will post my ballot here later in the season.

Right now, McCann is a given on my ballot as well as Orlando Hudson in Arizona at second, Reyes at Short. Right now, I’d vote Chipper in at third just barely over Miguel Cabrera. I would begrudgingly and with teeth clenched vote “The Clear” in at outfield along with Matt Holliday. The last outfield spot would be tough for me right now. Could be Frenchy, could be Josh Hamilton in Cincy or Chris Duncan in St Louis.

Regardless of who plays, I would love to see the NL break the streak the AL is on right now. They’ve won nine of the last ten games including the tie in Milwaukee in 2002.

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 6:25 PM | Link to this

We shall see, KC; I get the hint. Let’s not jinx the boy before tonight’s start.

BamaBrave, Bose 301’s are the shizzle, are they not?

Krath, how do you not vote for A-rod? Easy. He’s a dick. :-)

By interested observer

April 25, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

To make things more equitable, I think the following rule changes should be implemented immediately:

1. When Craig Wilson is batting, pitchers are only allowed to throw fastballs on the inner half of the plate.

2. To make it easier for him to hit, Ryan Langerhans will be allowed to hit off of a tee.

3. To make it more difficult for them to hit, when Redman is the pitcher, opposing batters will be required to hit off of a tee.

4. As an alternative to 1-3, Langerhans will always be pitched to by Redman. May the best man win!!

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Cubs join us in having to shut a pitcher down for the season, again.

Mark Prior will not be participating in the madness we call the 2007 baseball season after a season-ending shoulder injury.

Of course, things are much less rosier in the windy city since the North Siders have stumbled out of the gate to the tune of 8-13.

By DonCoburleone

April 25, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

KJ is starting tonight! Now if we can only convince BC to start Thorman against lefties, our lineup will be fine!

By ChrisinPA

April 25, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

DOB

Couldn’t agree with you more on Powderfinger. I freakin’ love that song. Seen it covered a few times, too. Twice by the Jazz Mandolin Project - great live bad, if you like some jazz and the mandolin. And once by Rusted Root. Neil is a God.

By D-Cider

April 25, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

I have Bose 301’s as my 2 rear speakers in my 5.1 system and they serve that purpose well. but as far as main speakers go, right now I go with Infinty.

No one was talking about Franceour last week when he was batting about .230. he is and probably remain, one of the streakiest batters around. But, if the Braves make the postseason, will be produce against very good pitching? The difference between batting .260 and .280 is < 15 hits. I’ll give him that

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

Wow!…the ol’ blog sure is chock full of award-winning posts tonite…

By JC FROM UT

April 25, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

Does anyone think that former Brave Reggie Sanders could/would be a nice fit. Granted he was awfull when he was here before but if I remeber he was hurt most the time. I think KC wants to get rid of him so who knows? Maybe JS can work something out with his old pal Drayton.

By eric the elder

April 25, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

If Andruw has a bad year and Francoeur goes as well as he is now all year, the Braves might not even make an offer to Andruw, unless his home town discount is mighty. Francoeur in center, and we’ll figure something out for left and right.

By Dan Vazquez

April 25, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

Hi, im from Vancouver BC, im a huge Braves fan for over 15 years, and i always read your columns, i have a question, the braves have an obvious problem on left outfield with Ryan L. even with his above average defence, he,s never going to be a good hitter, who in the farm system could be an answer in the near future?? or why not going for Carl Crawford from Tampa? he’s avaible and at this time he’s price is low but i would go up when the trade deadline gets closer, he actually fix two problems leadoff and LF, what can the braves offe??r and what would tampa want?? thanks for your time, and keep up with the high quality work, cheers! Dan Vazquez

By geauxbraves2000

April 25, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this

Everybody in the free world knows it’s not an all star ballot, it’s a popularity contest. Maybe MLB should institute a real all-star game, selected by the players peers, and a fan favorite game. When they’d play both games I do not know. This is just IMO.

Another left hander on the mound tonight, happy happy joy joy. Oh well —

Geaux Braves!!

By flange1

April 25, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

Hi All,

DOB, thanks for the Powderfinger reference, I just downloaded Live Rust and Rust Never Sleeps into my itunes. Great song and great records!

Look forward to Huddy tonight!

I said something a week ago how it would be nice to have Andruw, Chipper, McCann and Frenchy all hitting at the same time. Throw in KJ and Edgar and that is where we are headed. I think Andruw is getiing ready to break out in one of his white hot streaks.. If the others can stay warm, IT WILL LOTS OF FUN TO WATCH!!!

Good luck Langy, we are all pulling for you!

By David O'Brien

April 25, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

ChrisInPA, best cover of Powderfinger I’ve ever heard was by Built To Spill. It’s on their live album. Amazing. Epic, monster cover, raging guitars just like Neil and the boys, and great singing, too.

Check it out wherever you can find it, either on CD or online. You’ll love it.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

KJ is Incredible!

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

KJ unloads on Olsen and just drills a lead-off homer. Renteria follows with a drive to the warning track in LC.

Good start to the game.

By DonCoburleone

April 25, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson, ON FIRE!!!

By Alan

April 25, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Call me a homer, but I did my all-star voting last week and every Brave on the ballot got my vote all 25 times. In the AL, I voted for T. Pena at SS and basically threw darts at the other positions. Hey, it’s a popularity contest - it has nothing to do with statistics. Regarding Jon Heyman’s article, he’s just another in a long line of “experts” who refuse to give Bobby Cox his due. I’m sure Bobby couldn’t care less what Jon Heyman thinks. The guy will waltz into the Hall of Fame the first year he’s eligible. And as for game management and strategy (Bobby’s alleged shortcomings), have you noticed the “brilliance” of Joe Torre over the years? Take a good look at him now. He’s downright expressionless - like a zombie. Of course, who could blame him with the “stable” of pitchers he has - the likes of Coulter Bean and Chase Wright. Now the Yankees have called up a 20-year-old, Phil Hughes, to start Thursday’s game. I think it’s going to be a really long season in the Bronx.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Chipper’s not too bad either.

By eric the elder

April 25, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

Two out of the park, two to the warning track, and … a whiff.

By DonCoburleone

April 25, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

Chipper now tied for the NL lead with 7 homers! If he stays healthy all year our offense is going to put up MONSTER numbers this season…

By Gil in Mechanicsville

April 25, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

Was wondering, do you need to be a fast runner if you keep hitting leadoff homers? :-)))) ?

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

Alan: There is a little glitch, I won’t go into the details, that allows you to place an infinite amount of votes online. Right now The entire braves opening day line up has at least 2000 votes each. Same with the KC Royals. The way I see it, the NL is going to win and the WS will be in the real league this year.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Do I feel bad about those Royals votes? Not really. Not unless we end up with yet another KC All Star next year. Then I’ll cut it out. But in the mean time, it’s MLB’s fault for allowing on line voting. Otherwise I’d have to go snag all the ballots at Angles and Dodger Stadium.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

The first time I ever took the mound, I set down the opposition 1-2-3. Walking back to the dug out my left fielder said: “Wow Tennessee, you’ve got a no-hitter going.” Next inning I blew it. I never spoke to the LF again.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

Is this fair? Can we do this and not be fined?

Way to break out of the slump Diaz!

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

Diaz joins the hit parade and Hudson is looking sharp after his first inning of work.

By DonCoburleone

April 25, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

It’s home-run derby at the old ballyard tonight!!!

By Gil in Mechanicsville

April 25, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

Yo.. Lew Your boy Diaz just hit a dinger. :))

By Gil in Mechanicsville

April 25, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

Yo.. Lew Your boy Diaz just hit a dinger. :))

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

We’re all or nothing today it appears. Fine by me. We keep this up no team is going to catch us with the HR total until mid August.

By DonCoburleone

April 25, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

Hey, I voted for a ton of Braves. Only regulars I left off were Renteria (Reyes is just too good), Thorman, and Diaz. I voted 25 times X 3; or in other words 75 times. All you have to do is put in a different last name and e-mail address and you can vote as many times as you want. GET TO IT EVERYBODY!!!

By Alan

April 25, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, thanks for the tip, but I’ll need more to go on than the word “glitch.” I know how to turn this thing on and off - that’s about it. However, I admire your gumption and I invite every other blogger to follow your lead. Just like all those Reds fans did in the “good old days” (1961 if my memory serves me correctly).

By brent a.

April 25, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this

Hudson’s about to have an ERA that is lower than L-hans’ batting average.

By Larry

April 25, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Send Davies back to Richmond, he needs to get some innings under his belt and he is not getting them here. Give Cormier his spot. Redman may never be OK this year but at least he provides a second lefty starter.

Finesse pitchers generally take some time to get going, power pitchers generally do well in spring and fall - gross generalizations but none the less. I would give Redman a few more starts, possibly into June before you pull the plug.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

April 25, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Brent A, that was wrong. But, funny!

By krath

April 25, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN….. my ballot will probably change as the season progresses based on long haul performance. Hard to draw conclusions in April. I’m with you on Halliday in the outfield…. that was my Rocky vote. Can’t bring myself to vote for big headed Bonds though.

Grinch…. lol at the A-Rod comment :)

By eric the elder

April 25, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson is KJ. Andruw is just K.

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Krath Yeah, that’s a vote I really hate to make, but you’re right, it’s very early and things can and likely will change over the course of the next couple of months.

By Apaul404

April 25, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Thank God for Tim Hudson, things are interesting these past two starts for Smoltz because he had two quality starts. Been left in one inning too many and gotten hammered. Which hurts my heart. I scream for Bobby to send in a reliever but I guess he can’t hear me up here in Athens. Anyway James has to get better. And Watching Langerhans struggle has been painful. I hope he improves because I like the way he play defense.

By George

April 25, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

Has anybody heard if the Langer Hands are receiving trauma intervention at school? poor kids had there faces on tv tough to be a high school kid these days

By forcesaberz

April 25, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Arg, please let Thorman play every day! Gosh … wilson just is done

By Sam in KY

April 25, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

How about we move Kelly Johnson to left field, considering he came up as an outfielder after switching from shortstop early in the minors? Then we could bring up Martin Prado to play second. Prado looked phenomenal in Spring Training and I was shocked he didn’t make the big league club. Cox said the only reason he and Escobar didn’t make the club was b/c they both needed to play everyday down in Richmond.

I say try McBride at starter and drop Redman like a case of Chlamydia

Cormier is no gaurantee for a succesful return w/ that soreness still a problem in his arm

By Bravos

April 25, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

You know, all this raving for Oscar to be put into the rotation is a little much. It’s not like he and Redman can just trade places, either. If you think Redman is bad as a starter, imagine how awful he’d be out of the pen. Plus, Oscar is a great long-relief guy to have and he’s proven durable since his bad season with the D-Backs. So, I say keep him where he is.

And why is everyone so high on Cormier? I know he was decent towards the end of last year and looked good this spring. But the kid’s pretty young and untested, and that’s not to mention this odd and somewhat nagging injury.

The fix appears to be in Kyle Davies righting his ship. If he can straighten things out again and get back to throwing six innings of two or three run ball, then that’s great. Then Redman and Cormier can battle it out for the fifth spot.

That said, Redman is an absolute bum. Myself and a bunch of other people said that from day one. I’ve never seen someone throw such nonsense up there. And unless Cormier can come in and throw like he did in the spring, the rotation’s shaky, at best. Particularly with Chuckie trying to figure out what ails him.

Unlike most, I’m not terribly worried about LF or 1B. Langerhands will never be looked to for his offensive, but he’s a great insurance guy to bring in for the late innings to help protect a lead. Diaz will hit (he’s already got a bomb tonight). Bobby and everyone else wouldn’t have such faith in him if he couldn’t. And Thomran just needs some at-bats. He looked great last night, too, and seems to be coming around.

Overall, I think a lot of people are still nitpicking this team. First it was KJ, and now he’s the golden boy. Next, it was Huddy and can he regain his form? And he’s been the ace of the staff.

Most of these things will work themselves out with time.

And PLEASE DON’T TRADE FOR JACQUE JONES. I’m not sure what you all think he’d do for this team, but have you actually seen the guy play? I’ll take Diaz and Langy over him any day, especially since he’s far more expensive.

Jacque Jones is who you get if you mate an older Ron Gant with Rafael Belliard. (No offense to Belliard, of course).

By JJMB

April 25, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with batting AJ 5th or 6th for a while? Sweet Jeebus, he’s killing me with that crazy swing.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

Let’s hope that when Andruw gets hot, it’s every bit as hard to fathom as his performance this game.

By Shane

April 25, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

Andruw…needs to go…now!!

By Mets Stink

April 25, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

Brent A. it’s official. After Boone’s flyout Hudson’s era is 0.54 and Langerhans average is 0.56. Classic!

By Nelson

April 25, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

I want somebody explain what is Bobby waiting to remove Craig Wilson from the roster and Andrew from the clean-up spot?

By Apaul404

April 25, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

I agree, there is definitely something going on with Andrew, it’s a contract year, the whole league is watching him. I have seen him on TV more this year than all prior seasons combined. And he looks bad when he strikes out. Not even close.

By David O'Brien

April 25, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

Daddy’s rifle in my hand, felt reassuring… (just try to get that song out of your head, if you’re a Neil fan.)

Eric the Elder, funny K post. Very solid.

By krath

April 25, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

Damn……caught Bobby diggin for gold again.

By Shagger

April 25, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

By Apaul404

April 25, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

It is amazing with all the issues we have right now that we are tied for the lead in the division and the best record in baseball. I’ll take it but we won’t be going to far if everyone on the team doesn’t hit at at least a major league level.

By Apaul404

April 25, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

Also Craig Wilson has not earned 2 mil a year. I wish he would cut that hair but I could deal with it if he could scatter a hit or to in between those strikeouts.

By April

April 25, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

Same site, honey. I always get a lot of hits when the new photo pages are posted. I haven’t been able to keep my mind on things today since you said you take a little but give a lot. You will never know what you missed. How tall is Tyler Yates?

By krath

April 25, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

Hudson looks like he’s in a time machine. It’s like 2003 again for him.

By Uwe Shagger

April 25, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this

Dang. Hudson has the same stuff he showed at Auburn. Anybody know which gem he uses?

By James

April 25, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

The reason we can not move Kelly to the outfield is we need to protect his arm. Remember, he had TJ surgery this past offseason.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

April 25, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

Could it be that Tim Hudson is back?!

By Carlos Amato

April 25, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Who’s this guy pitching for us today?

I tought it was Hudson’s turn. You know, that fellow who needed 100 pitches to get through an inning and whose sinkers didn’t sink.

Oh, well. Have to get used to this imposter…

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this

There was a shot of Bob Wickman in the bullpen and the graphic that accompanies it listed his first job as a greens keeper on a golf course.

Imagine Bob and Bill Murray tooling around the golf course hunting for gophers…

By krath

April 25, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

Could be an interesting situation with Hudson. I think the Braves management (and many of US fans) had already earmarked his salary to be cleared thru a trade before it jumped next year. Guess we may have to save our lunch money so we can afford to keep him around a while. lol

By James

April 25, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

He is just Nasty tonight. Ten strikeouts through seven innings

By brent a.

April 25, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

actually, I think Kelly Johnson had arm surgery almost 1 year ago.

By neil

April 25, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

Shelter me from the davies and the redman

Relieve them with the dudes out in the bullpen

Think of them as ones who can’t be pitchin’

Hope they fade away real soon, With ERAs to the moon

Reminds me of last year,

when we had the Reitsma(n).

By bergian

April 25, 2007 8:59 PM | Link to this

Except for 3 homers, Olsen has pitched pretty well over 8 innings. I still think the Marlins will be a bigger threat to us over the long haul than the Phillies, and perhaps even the Mets.

By Uwe Shagger

April 25, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

April,

May I see you in September?

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

A dozen strikeouts by Hudson in the house that Marino built.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

Mr. Young, your lyrical genius continues to impress.

By krath

April 25, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

Dominate…. how else can Hudson’s performance be described. He is using these guys like rented mules!

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

OK, I guess I was wrong about Hudson.

By Fred Secunda

April 25, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, did you read Bowman’s story today about Langerhans’ struggles at the plate? In it he mentions that several coaches on staff are calling for Brandon Jones to be called up. How much longer does Langerhans have to struggle at the plate before Jones is given a look?

By krath

April 25, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

I meant “dominating”

By Chad

April 25, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Langerhans’ BA is now lower than Hudson’s ERA. Wow.

By ncscoots

April 25, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

berigan, these Marlins kids played out of their skulls last year, only to finish below .500. While a couple of those guys are the real deal, it’s unlikely that all of them are gonna keep climbing the growth curve. Their starting pitching has already started to crumble, and the bullpen is a mess. Winning 81 games would be a terrific year for ‘em.

By Uwe Shagger

April 25, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

Grinch,

You are forgiven if you will just give Christmas back.

By Carlos Amato

April 25, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

108 pitches. Don’t let him start the 9th. Call Wickman!

By JasonInMaine

April 25, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

uh oh…

By N8

April 25, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

BOBBY COX is a frickin IDIOT.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

I really hope Wickman isn’t due to cough one up…

By JJMB

April 25, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

Another pitcher left in too long. Gee, has this ever happened before? Somebody out there must know.

By fastasballs

April 25, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

Come on Wickman, nail it down!

By krath

April 25, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

Hudson got all three pitches up…. hasn’t done that all night.

Hey…. if we lose this game, I can’t fault Cox for leaving him in. Hudson looked as good in the eighth as he did at any point in the game.

Tuff situation for Wickman. I like him to start an inning but coming in bases loaded…..whew!

Don’t want to lose this one now. Crossing fingers and toes!

By fastasballs

April 25, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Wow

By N8

April 25, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

What’s next Bobby??? Batting Langerhans leadoff?

DOB, chime in. You can’t POSSIBLY stick up for Mr. Cox for this BAFOON move, (or lack there of), CAN YOU?

By sri

April 25, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

For all you folks who were complaining took out Hudson after 8 innings.. this is what happens when a manager plays for a complete game rather than a ‘W’

By JasonInMaine

April 25, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

wow, what an absolute awful decision by bobby. hudson shouldn’t have started the night let alone be in after giving up the 1st or 2nd hit. this loss is all on bobby and the mishandling of the staff. what do we have this bullpen for? he threw 108 pitches. this freakin sux. worst game that i have watched in a long time.

By N8

April 25, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

It’s games like this that make me believe that it wouldn’t have mattered if we would’ve had a closer.

Hard to complain about “not having a closer”, when, as it turns out, when we DO HAVE ONE, he doesn’t use him.

UNREAL!

Oh, btw, how about all those runs tonight that have come our way without hitting HR’s? Yeah, that would be ZERO of them.

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

Big, big strikeout of Willingham.

By krath

April 25, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

I jinxed us. Never brag on anyone before the game is in the can :(

By N8

April 25, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

Kind of ironic (let me know if that’s the RIGHT use of the word ironic, DOB), that on the day that John Heyman defies the masses by claiming that Bobby isn’t that “special”, he does THIS.

Ladies and Gentleman, I do believe that we’ll have ourselves a “Robert filled” blog later on.

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

April 25, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By fastasballs

April 25, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

Chalk this loss up to Bobby Cox. This one hurts

By Efrim

April 25, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

Awful loss

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

April—or Alford/ Albert/ Alpo/ Ape—whatever your name is dude—enough with the foolishness already…now look, we received your email, and your photos, and consequently, we are not going to be able to help you out with your request for financial assistance in obtaining transgender surgery, although in your case, said surgery would be considered as minor. I will make one suggestion that might just help you somewhat, duct tape. Yes, duct tape, I’ve heard that some folks in your condition just duct tape everything up out of the way while out in public, you might want to shave or trim a little bit first though.

So don’t waste my time by bothering me anymore, can’t help you dude…

By JJMB

April 25, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

Nice management job. Oh well, Bobby is a nice guy. His players speak highly of him. That’s all that matters.

By brent a.

April 25, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

So much for the “6 inning game”

By journalist jimmy smith

April 25, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

Good Job McCann, you STUPID JACKASS!!!

By Ron Roberts

April 25, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

That was too much to ask of Bob Wickman tonight. He’s not that kind of closer, Bobby.

Truth be told, the pitch count wasn’t all that unreasonable. But the first single would’ve been an opportune time; hell the second single would’ve been the absolute last batter most managers would’ve let Hudson face.

Ouch. This loss will sting; not playing a little small-ball here and there tonight, and not managing the bottom of the 9th better cost the Braves a game they had in the bag.

By JasonInMaine

April 25, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

disgraceful. absolutely disgraceful. i haven’t been this upset about a loss since farnsworth’s meltdown. i am sick. i am still in freakin shock.

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

This one stings, but it’s also baseball.

Only thing we can do is bounce back once we get to Blake Street in Denver.

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

Wow. I guess Freddie’s move last night just got trumped by Cox. Good thing he’s a great guy, huh? Wow.

By brent a.

April 25, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

it’s always easy to 2nd guess (and this is a clear “2nd guesser”), but the main reason I wouldn’t have pitched Huddy in the 9th is because the heart of the order was due up, and we were on the road.

Hopefully, this is a lesson learned that will not be repeated.

By N8

April 25, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

For all of you people claiming we’re “right there” with the Mets this season, as far as the lineups go, I’ve got 5 words that should clarify it for you:

Bobby Cox and Willie Randolph.

Get back to me in October and let me know if you think it’s CLOSE.

And just think, last night people were mocking Fredi Gonzalez for walking Langerhans. LOL!

Which one is the “rookie” manager again?

Go ahead homers. Stick up for Mr. “Aw shucks, Huddy pitched a good game” Cox after this one.

I wanna hear what y’all have to say. This is gonna be good.

WORST CASE SCENARIO, Hudson HAS TO come out after the first two hits.

Son of a B**********************H!!!!

By chipdip

April 25, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

theres a big difference between bending over and kneeling down!

By Ron

April 25, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

Thats fine if you leave Huddy in but once he got in trouble take him out. Where was Soriano, he is the one that you needed in that situation not Wickman, I blame Bobby for not putting Soriano in!!!

By Jared

April 25, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

This is the type of game that can destroy everything we have done so far this year. Can someone remind Bobby we are still in April? Weakness/lack of depth in starting rotation + awesome deep bulpen = 100 pitch limit for starters. I dont care if they have a perfect game. Great job Bobby.

By George

April 25, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

*By sri

April 25, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

For all you folks who were complaining took out Hudson after 8 innings.. this is what happens when a manager plays for a complete game rather than a ‘W’ **my thoughts exactly

By Slump starter

April 25, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

This is the type of game that defines seasons- will they fight back now or tank it? Sad that Hudson had 12 k’s through 8 shutout innings then got an L, while Wicky got his second blown save…and I blame neither. If Wicky starts that inning there’s no problem. In fact, once it got to bases loaded no outs, Soriano would have been a better choice because of his K rate. Thanks Bobby…

By UVABrave

April 25, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

I’m not normally one to criticize Bobby, but Huddy should have been out of there. I understand trying to get the CG, and even leaving him in after 1 hit, but after that 2nd hit he should’ve been out. It seemed like Bobby thought the lead was a lot bigger than it was. With our bullpen, those kind of things just shouldn’t happen.

Also, I know Bobby wants to show faith in Wickman as his closer, but this was clearly a better situation for Soriano or Gonzo to come in because of the need for the K (I know Wicks got one, but there was no way he was going to strikeout the side…and that’s what we needed).

Just a horrible loss that didn’t need to happen

By Contra

April 25, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

wow, that was brutal. absolutely brutal.

i’m not usually one to go off on bobby’s managerial decisions, but what else can you say about that? the second i saw hudson give up that first single in the ninth i could tell he was getting the ball up and needed to be pulled. unbelievable.

that’s a stomach punch game right there. very very rough.

By Daybed Wagmoe

April 25, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

tough, tough, tough, tough, tough loss. hudson really deserved a win tonight, especially moreso than any pitcher who happened to be pitching when his team loaded the bases on three soft grounders to the hole and a passed ball.

but, like they say, that’s baseball.

By eric the elder

April 25, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

With just 108 pitches and going lights out, Huddy deserved to start the 9th. But when that first hit came off a pitch up in the zone (and a couple of other pitches were up to that batter, too) that’s when he gets the hook. The next hit came on another pitch up. I absolutely could not believe Huddy was still out there for Boone.

When the fish came within a run, I also wanted to see Wickman out. He is not a strikeout pitcher (altho he did get one), and Soriano was ready.

Does McDowell get no say in any of this? If he does, then he is equally to blame.

I still go back to Andruw’s whiff with the bases loaded. What might have been.

By chipdip

April 25, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

CLEVELAND STEAMER.

By OH MY

April 25, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

Wow. What’s up with some of you? Last week it was Bobby was dumb for not letting Hudson go for the complete game and now he is dumb for not pulling Hudsion when he is completely dominating.

Last I checked Bobby immediately got the bullpen up with the first base runner and Wickman still gave up two hits and a wild pitch after coming in. I’m sure that’s Bobby’s fault too. Right?

Not a game that should have been lost, however you can’t hang it on the manager. His closer still came in with a 3 run lead (with the bases loaded) and had a chance to close it out. That’s what your closer is supposed to do, close it out under fire. Just a bad inning. Too bad it was the bottom of the 9th.

By D-Cider

April 25, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

that certainly sucked. leaving hudson in for 112 pitches.braves scoring 3 runs off a starter whose era was over 7…what a fiasco…

By jb

April 25, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

I guess after last night’s idiotic decision to walk Langerhans, Cox felt he should return the favor. He has left Smoltz in too long during 2 starts this year, and now the braves lose their first series of the year on this. SAD!

By jb

April 25, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

I guess after last night’s idiotic decision to walk Langerhans, Cox felt he should return the favor. He has left Smoltz in too long during 2 starts this year, and now the braves lose their first series of the year on this. SAD!

By stendec

April 25, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

BRAVES LOSE! BRAVES LOSE! BRAVES LOSE! What was on line? Only first place! Wickman a piece of monkey crap! Ship him to Peoria! Thought I was watching Thrashers in playoffs. First and LAST time I will waste my time watching these gaggers this year! Bellyup scum! The bar is open!

By N8

April 25, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Brent a.

“Hopefully, this is a lesson learned that will not be repeated.”

This is apparently your first month watching Braves baseball, huh?

Just kidding man, I realize it’s not. But Cox hasn’t learned when to take a starting pitcher out in 17 years, don’t count on it happening this year.

By JasonInMaine

April 25, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

okay, i am on robert’s side now

By Ron

April 25, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

Sri, Agree with you 100%!!! Cant believe Bobby did not bring in Soriano!!! N8, your right Why the HELL do we have a DAMN CLOSER for, when we dont put him in the 9th!!! Bobby gets the FULL BLAME on this one!!! Thats one thing if you keep Huddy in the game but when he got in any type of trouble, he should have been out of the game!!!

By Robert

April 25, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

Hee hee hee haw haw haw

By ncscoots

April 25, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

Did Hudson look done in the 8th? Uh, no…two strikeouts and a grounder. Why not send him back out? It didn’t work out, but I saw no indication that he wasn’t ready for the 9th.

Leaving him in after the second hit, though, that might have been a little optimistic.

My only regret is that now nathan will rant more than usual, if that’s possible :-) Love ya, man, but fewer ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS, whaddya think, LOL!

By gotigers72

April 25, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

I’m not a Bobby basher, but that was some bad managing tonight. He should have taken out Hudson way before he did. He should let Wickman start an inning if he can rather than bringing him in with the sacks loaded and nobody out. I know, all three hits Hudson gave up were ground balls that could have been outs, but still, bad managing if you ask me. Bobby tends to let his pitchers go too long at times.

The good thing about it is, the Braves have a history of coming back strong after bad losses like this, Hopefully they’ll go to Colorado and do just that.

No Braves tomorrow night. Guess I’ll watch the Democratic Presidential debate. Yeah right. I’d rather stick hot needles in my eyes.

By krath

April 25, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

Ok….unload all you want on me but I start Hudson in the ninth. The guy showed NO signs of being done in the eighth. Not saying I wouldn’t have removed him when the leadoff guy got on but I don’t fault Cox for starting the inning with him.

Maybe the closer you have dictates the choice. Wickman isn’t the guy you want to bring in with the sacks jammed. He’s sometimes a Don “fullpack” Stanhouse. If you’re gonna use him……need the bases clean.

Since Wickman didn’t start the inning and the bases were loaded…. maybe you bring in Soriano cause he’s a strikeout guy.

Still can’t ignore the fact that the offense missed a few more scoring opps early. Go into the ninth 5-0 is a big difference than 3-0.

Either way……tough loss :(

By JJMB

April 25, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

What I think is, Fidel Castro somehow implanted LSD into Bobby’s nose. The more he dug and raked into his sinuses, and then went to his mouth, the more disoriented he became. Those G-damned commie bastards!

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this

All this Bobby should have taken Huddy out before the 9th stuff is a complete steaming pile of bulls*. 108 pitches is nothing. The guy was steal dealing great through the 8th. He put runners on throughout the game and always mowed em down with a k when he needed to. All the people using this as their diarrhetical vent board cause they’re frustrated about the loss probably would be b*tching about not letting Huddy complete his shutout or abusing the bullpen or some other crap if Wickman had started the 9th. If anything, I think that the mistake was not leaving Huddy in after giving up the singles. He was a better candidate to get key strikeouts and get out’ve that mess there than a pitcher coming into the game to face bases juiced and nobody out. So if you want to vent, vent about that crap.

By John

April 25, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

This one is squarly on Bobby’s shoulders. He has got to quit going too long with Smotz and Hudson. Also, using Wickman last night in a throw away inning that means nothing is dumb too. Finally, he needs strikeouts as the bases are loaded and on one out. He has Sorano warmed up from the last inning, I have an idea. Bobby break that rock hard way of doing things and bring in the strike out specialist in a strike out situation. No sense at all.

By lilman916

April 25, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

What a brutal, heart wrenching loss. Hudson pitched a superb 8 innings, and our beloved manager, a.k.a. “Boob” Cox left him in the game too long. What’s the point? Does Hudson get a bonus if he pitches a complete game? I watched from my PC, and said Boob should take Hudson out after the first single in the 9th. He had a plate appearance in the top of the 9th, and had already thrown over 100 pitches (it seems to be an unwritten rule that starting pitchers must come out after 100 pitches). He gives of two consecutive hits, and Boob still leaves him in. Win the game!!!! Don’t worry about players and their stats, win the GAME

By Greg in TN

April 25, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

I agree with you Daybed, that’s a blow from going 3-0 to an L in a half-inning. BC puts a lot of trust in his pitchers, this one got away from us in south Florida.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

And the leaving Smoltz in to long….I mean, those were after 5 and 6 innings. If Smoltz is all worn out after 5 innings every time this year, that is not gonna be a good sign for us.

The Braves should have scored more than 0 runs after the second. Wickman was due not to get the job done (not that this wasn’t a damn near impossible situation). It’s one game. If Huddy pitches like that this year, I think everyone will be happy.

By Contra

April 25, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

It would be one thing if Bobby did this every now and then and it just happened to be a one time thing that coincided with Hudson trying to get a shutout tonight.

Unfortunately, we’ve all seen him do this for years, most especially leaving Smoltz in for way too long for a number of games when it was painfully clear that his command and stuff were starting to decline. If myself and tons of other people can see it, Bobby of all people should be able to recognize it.

And a guy getting a “complete game” should be a non factor. This isn’t about padding a guy’s stats, this is about winning games and this loss was completely inexcusable.

By MBATL

April 25, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

In hindsight, I think we should have done something different.

By Efrim

April 25, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

That is a Bobby Cox loss right there. All his fault. Lets see if this team has guts. Lets go into Colorado and sweep the series. This team better think long and hard about this, they could really blow their great start. They actaully are though. 7-1 start, 6-7 since. I would say that is BLOWING A GREAT START.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

Robert is clearly delighted at this loss. A true Braves fan til the end, he would rather be able to (incorrectly) blame Bobby than actually win the game. He belongs on this board as much as No Chop Zone or Metro Man.

By Contra

April 25, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

And what’s even better is we’ll probably get to sit through another couple of months of Langerhans and Redman, because of Bobby’s “faith in his guys”.

Can’t wait for that.

By Chad

April 25, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox did the right thing tonight. Hudson was dominating this game and deserved to go for the CG. Bob Wickman is your closer and that is who you go with in that situation. I have to believe Wickman wasn’t ready after the second base hit. Wickman came in with a 3 run lead and just couldn’t hold it. I give the Marlin’s all the credit for this win. The Braves did it right tonight, it’s easy for us to second guess decisions that are made after the game. Let’s hope we can sweep the Rockies and get home for a long homestand.

By Tony Almeida

April 25, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Shouldnt have been this close. Andruw crapped out tonight with the strikeouts. Wilson shouldnt have been in there, period. Both of them combined for 6 strikeouts, HORRENDOUS!!!! Chipper needs to start hitting with men on base, not just when they are empty. And for the love of God, why put Langerhans in just to get his usual strikeout.

By DAP

April 25, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

it really sux that we didnt get this win tonight. i hate it for hudson, who was amazing until the hiccup. so we lose our first series to the marlins. the mets are gonna keep winning, so this means that we really need to take care of business against the rockies. im hoping for a sweep against them, i really think we can do it.

chuck james at coors scares me a bit, but i think he’ll do fine, cause our boys will back him up with the bats, and smoltz will be awesome. davies and james needs to tighten up the screws a bit…

By N8

April 25, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

nscoots

I actually held off all game. Told myself last night that I was gonna give y’all a break, and just sit back and read without replying to anybody.

But there was NO WAY IN HELL (just for you scoots), that I was gonna let that “crapshoot” of a 9th inning go by.

I agree that he deserved to come out and start the 9th. Maybe even deserved to stay in after the first hit. But if you guys are right about all those pitches being up, there is no reason to leave him out to face Boone. Then to top it off, Cox doesn’t have the forsight to see a big inning brewing, so Soriano is nowhere in sight to come in for a big strikeout.

Also, another great reason for not playing the infield in. Let em’ bunt their way to victory if they want to. Don’t blame Wickman for giving up a bloop hit, that from the way Skip described it, Chipper would’ve caught without the infield in.

Wickman is a START THE INNING with nobody on kind of closer. Not a come in with the bases loaded, nobody out, protecting a three run lead, kind of closer.

Maybe Bobby knows that now. Somebody should remind Bobby that Remlinger doesn’t do “so well” against the lefties, too. That way he won’t make that mistake again when we sign him for bullpen help in the summer.

By BravesfaninMD

April 25, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Bad decision, Cox! He always lets Smoltz and Hudson talk him out of taking them out of the game! Why have a bullpen if you refuse to use them or use them when you don’t need them?!? He should’ve lifted Hudson when he gave up the first single. A wasted game.

By MrC

April 25, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

You have got to be kidding me…….this is the same group of bloggers that were bit$%ing when Bobby pulled Hudson in the 8th last week for Wickman. Sir Stealth is 100 percent accurate. And not a single hit in the ninth was smoked or lifted. You are going to lose games like this several times in a given season. Just like you are going to win games like this several times a season. Remember Philly….came from behind a couple of times.

By steve_97060

April 25, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

I was going to vent, but it has all already been said, that was some classic game management tonight…Is Bobby just too comfortable to want to make that long walk out to the mound? if so, send another coach out!!!

What was the point in making all those moves to shore up the bullpen, then not use it until it is too late? What is it with Bobby and his #1 and #2 starters? how many times has he left them in too long and they lose a game they shouldn’t have…

By CHAD IS DUMB

April 25, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

WICKMAN CAME IN WITH THE BASES LOADED YOU FOOL. THAT’S WHY HE COULDN’T HOLD IT. IF HE WERE IN EARLIER, HE WOULD HAVE HELD THE LEAD. JERK.

By Contra

April 25, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

This isn’t really about leaving Hudson in there for the ninth. That was fine. However, the second he gave up that single to Cabrera he should have been pulled, plain and simple.

He was showing signs of getting the ball up in the 7th and 8th, and every hit he gave up in the 9th were on pitches up in the zone. Hell, the slider that Boone hit was on a friggin’ tee.

By MrC

April 25, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

MBATL…..”in hindsight we should have done something different.” A classic comment if there ever was one.

By Ron

April 25, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

Well what a damn stupid loss!!! I think we have our new LF at least for awhile maybe, in Diaz, I am so sick and tired of Wilson, play Thor, And Andruw sucks unbelivable, man can he hit any worse, that bases loaded situation was pathedic by Andruw, Wow what a pathedic meltdown by Bobby, and I am a Bobby supporter, but Damn this was Pathedic, I expect for awhile now that Thor plays every day and Diaz plays everyday in LF, if not I might be turnin on Bobby!!!

By ncscoots

April 25, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah, but look at it this way…the game was over in time to watch Lost.

By John Adcox

April 25, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Boy did that one hurt.

By IMFO

April 25, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

DONK A DONK BUTT JUST A KEEPS A HEE HAWING.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Mets don’t need to go out and get more players to help win the division—Hell! Bobby Cox will give them all the help they need!…Dumber than a ugandan jimmy goat!…

By Contra

April 25, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

It’s going to be great to see what idiot GM pays Andruw 18-20 million a year in the offseason because it sure as hell won’t be the Braves.

Good riddance to that guy hitting clean up.

By krath

April 25, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

I think the guy getting a complete game is more of a “in the booth” issue. The broadcasters always seem to remark something like…..”well Bobby is gonna give Huddy a chance to finish this one and get the complete game shutout.” I’m sure Hudson wanted to finish, but I also think Bobby’s decision to leave him in was based on the way he was pitching rather than the goal of getting a complete game.

I think Bobby does sometimes let Smoltz talk him into staying with him a bit too long. That said, I think the decision to bring Hudson back in the ninth was based purely on the fact that the Marlins showed no indication that they were catching up with him.

So what would have been the reaction here if after striking out two and getting a ground out in the eighth…..Hudson is removed after dominating and Wickman gives up 4 on his own? I promise there would be at least as many people calling for Bobby’s head for taking Hudson out while he was dealing.

Like I said, I would have taken Hudson out earlier in the ninth…. but would have done the same as was done and started the inning with him.

Hated to lose this one…..but love the way Hudson threw. Lots of games left….too early to throw ourselves off a bridge over this game.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Also, using Wickman last night in a throw away inning that means nothing is dumb too.

Wickman was warming up when it was a 1 run game - after a pitcher has warmed up, it’s pretty standard for him to pitch even if the lead gets bigger.

And what’s even better is we’ll probably get to sit through another couple of months of Langerhans and Redman, because of Bobby’s “faith in his guys”.

People still seem oblivious to the fact that Redman isn’t gonna stick around b/c Bobby has faith in his guys, it’s b/c we signed him to a $750,000 contract and have no other major league ready people available.

This board is filled with vented spew right now. It wasn’t long ago that everyone was p** cause the bullpen was supposedly getting overused early in the season. Tim Hudson was awesome tonight. If a pitcher looks great through 8 and has only thrown 108 pitches, then damn right that pitcher’s gonna be out there in the ninth.

By MurphyRules

April 25, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

The same people complaining about Bobby leaving Hudson in too long also would be complaining if Wickman started the ninth and blew it. “Why did he take out Hudson? He was dealing!”

Hindsight is always 20/20.

It’s April, people. I think some of you complain just because you have nothing better to do. Do what I do: Kick the freakin’ dog!

By Ray

April 25, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

DOB if you don’t rip Bobby a new one mis-managing the ninth and allowing a crushing loss to unfold then you must be a Braves employee. While this is just a early season loss (no biggie) it is the poster child for why this team loses in big spots or in the post season.

He allows the bases to load up and then brings in a contact pitcher to clean up the mess. Odds of success in this situation are probably 50:1. Soriano or even Gonzo would have been better choices since they are strike out pitchers. Many fans would rather lose with Soriano throwing heat than Wickman throwing batting practice.

Sadly Bobby likely assumed Huddy would close this one out or maybe leave a guy on base for Wickman to strand; seeing that no on else was throwing in the pen

This is the kind of senseless loss that the press should jump on with vigor.

Heck if JS wasn’t so straight laced he would be burning up the phone to Bobby or pacing in front of Bobby’s desk.

Complete game means nothing - winning is what it’s about.

Hopefully we won’t see Huddy’s confidence unravel from this game.

Just a dumb way to lose.

By journalist jimmy smith

April 25, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith wishes all bloggers to know that was not jimmy smith posting at 9:31 p.m. someone continues to blog using jimmy smith’s name or just disparaging this journalist. jimmy smith admires brian mccann very much as all bloggers know and would never call brian mccann an ugly name. now, baseball … how did this one get away? oh, the humanity! hudson pitched so well …

By brent a.

April 25, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

“You are going to lose games like this several times in a given season.”

No, you are not!

By Carroll

April 25, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Come on, Robert! I need a Bobby rant after that circus tonight! Thanks a lot you stupid, stupid old senile man for ruining one of the best performances we have witnessed in a while. He is truly borderline retarded when it comes to managing pitchers.

By dgd

April 25, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

I think Hudson deserved a chance for the complete game shutout. Bobby’s unforgivable sin is that Wickman should have been warmed up and ready at the START of the ninth inning. That way if Hudson gave up a quick single or two, you bring Wickman right in. Because Wickman didn’t even START warming up until after the first single, he wasn’t ready until two batters later, when in reality for someone with his type of stuff, it was too late. What a shame……….

By serbok

April 25, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

To be honest~ It would not have surprised me if BC left hudson in with bases loaded and nobody out! Isnt BC’s attitude loyalty to the player? He’s one of the best!

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

All that bullsh#t over the last few years about needing a closer, and having relievers who know their rolls, and who specialize in short and long relief in order to get to the closer—then the Braves finally have 3 damn closers, and a better bullpen—-and Bobby Cox is too damned stubborn, and too damned interested in certain player’s personal stats in lieu of an overall win for the team…Unbelievable!…World Series calibre they’re not…

No damned wonder the people in the bullpen usually look as confused as monkeys in a rubber banana factory…

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

I also “love” how everyone says we shoulda had a strikeout pitcher when the out Wickman got was a strikeout. Soriano has given up a lot of deep fly’s lately - with the runner on third that’s a sac fly. And Gonzalez has yet to show any consistency this season and is one appearance removed from an injury scare. Would’ve been likely to walk in the winning run. Wickman got a k and then would have been as likely as any of those guys to get the double play to end the game. He didn’t cause he’s human and sometimes games don’t work out. He is our closer and he came into closed. We lost that way, cause sometimes things just don’t go right no matter what you do. It’s one game and the team isn’t gonna be demoralized. They’ll probably be encouraged by Hudson’s performance and resolved not to sit on a 3 run lead for an entire game.

By Chad

April 25, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

*By CHAD IS DUMB

April 25, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this

WICKMAN CAME IN WITH THE BASES LOADED YOU FOOL. THAT’S WHY HE COULDN’T HOLD IT. IF HE WERE IN EARLIER, HE WOULD HAVE HELD THE LEAD. JERK.*

First of all, I didn’t blame Wickman for the loss. I mearly stated that he couldn’t hold the lead. Never in my post did I blame him or anyone else for that matter. I apologize if my opinion bothers you. I will keep them to myself.

By Contra

April 25, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Sir stealth, I couldn’t care less if they are paying him 750K… cut your friggin’ losses and move on.

That guy has been a joke every time he’s been on the mound minus the Cubs game. Right handers are hitting like .450 off him. Yeah, definately want him starting more games. Let him be a long guy out of the bullpen or a situational lefty if you’re so damn adamant about letting him earn that salary.

And Langerhans has struck out about 40 percent of the time yet still gets starts against right handers because he’s a “great fielder”

Uh, that’s nice and all, but it’d be even better to not have 2 pitchers in our lineup.

By maybe

April 25, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

hello I am new here. I wouldn’t blame bobby for letting Hudson pitches in 9th inning becuase the way he was throwing. but I think bobby made 2 mistakes~ 1. Hudson should’ve had pulled after the first single or the second single. Obviously his pitches was up.

1. when base is loaded with 0 outs. why would bobby bring Wickman??? in this situtation, he needs to use one of his strikeout relievers, either Rafael Soriano or Mike Gonzalez. Wickman can’t bail guys out of the jams.

By Contra

April 25, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

If worse came to worse, we should go the Yankees route and just use starters from the minors. It would be a better option than Redman.

By Ron

April 25, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

MrC and Sir Stealth, You two are talkin about two totally different things, why dont you two shut the HELL up!!! I cant believe yall deffended that game, you two are damn morons!!!

By MBATL

April 25, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

We didn’t need a strikeout. We needed a ground ball.

By Apaul404

April 25, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

That was Bobby Cox being Bobby Cox. At least he is consistant. I’m sure he will spend the rest of the evening second guessing himself. But to my fellow Braves fans, the real one’s out there there are still 141 more of these things so don’t panic. We really gotta get Andrew going. He needs to stay off cold pizza and use that time for bp. And we all saw the graphic, Ryan Langerhans no 0 for his last 25 with 12 strikeouts. Help! Where is Ryan Klesko when you need him? LOL GO BRAVES!

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Contra, don’t think I don’t also think that Mark Redman sucks. But to say that he’s pitching b/c Bobby Cox has loyalty to the guy, well…you should stick to the Langerhans thing.

By Contra

April 25, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

“If worse came to worse, we should go the Yankees route and just use starters from the minors. It would be a better option than Redman.”

Or Villareal for that matter.

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

“Hindsight” has nothing to do with it for me. When Huddy walked off the mound in the 8th I was thinking “Good job, man; fantastic. That was a heckuva game. Time for Big Bob.” I was surprised when he hit for himself, but I thought “well, if they’ve got someone ready to pull him after the first hit, why not?” My GOD. This is really not that difficult. Even Ron Gant threw Bobby under the bus on the post game show. Ron freakin’ Gant, who they hired just because he never says anything negative. Y’all, it was simply a dumbass thing, pure and simple. If you’re trying to spin it any other way there’s a career for you in politics, but not baseball analysis.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

What is this crap? I leave and come back to Hudson stinking the place up and Wicky blowing the game. We ought to drop these guys like a bad habit. Where’s Devine? We should get him up and just release Wickman. Hudson, this is the worst trade in Braves history. What good is he? Call up that Matt Harris guy, or Lerew. Hell, McBride would be a better starting option than this. Unbelievable. This is what corporate penny pinching gets you. And Cox, leaving his guy out there for too long. He always does this. This is why he’ll never be considered a great manager. This season is over.

.

In truth, I’m bummed I missed the majority of what turned out to be a pitchers dual. Probably the worst thing for us was 3 homers in 2 innings. Looks like everyone went up there swinging for the fences after that. 10 Ks. Not good. But I’m going to chalk this one up to bad luck. We still have the rest of the season to go.

By cardvol

April 25, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

Although it didn’t cost them the game, the Braves can ill afford to have three outs at the bottom of the order plus the way Andruw is still struggling. Surely they can find two people who can bat .250 and play first base and left field. The way Wilson is struggling, why not try Thorman all time.

By journalist jimmy smith

April 25, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

“All that bullsh#t over the last few years about needing a closer, and having relievers who know their rolls … “

sja, that may be the problem with this bullpen - they know too much about rolls. gravy, too, from the looks of them.

By Ron

April 25, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

Sir Stealth, Once again you show your ignorance, Soriano not only is a K pitcher, but he puts fear in the opposing batters that they have to worry about his heat fastball!!! Wickman, they know that he is not a strikeout pitcher and dont have to worry about his Heat fastball, because he aint got one, do you understand now or do I have to spell it out to you, you damn moron

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

Excellent point, Ron…

Look, if Bobby could do it over again he’d do it differently, cause we lost. But this hindsight business is crap. And this let’s burn Cox in effigy thing is really, really crap. Over the course of the season, nobody is gonna guide a team better. All the times you’ve gotten to smile after a Braves win while some poor sap in another city gnashed his teeth, Bobby was there for that. Every time we stuck up another division title flag (and don’t forget that this game was in April), Bobby was there for that too. So be p** we lost, wish we’d managed the pitching differently, but don’t go holding hands with Robert. Be glad that Cox is coming with the team to Colorado, get over tonight, and go vent to the mirror.

By Eric C.

April 25, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Was Wickman warmed up and ready to come in?

By Carroll

April 25, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this

Jimmy: that was absolutely classic!

By MEB

April 25, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

Well a bunch of y’all earned the scroll wheel tonight! They say misery loves company, so everyone just revel in it.

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, I think Wicky still had a turkey leg in his mouth when he came out to the mound. My, my, my. Maybe the grease was what made that ball slip off Brian’s glove. OK, I feel better now. At least the Mets lost too; it’s not catastrophic. But my LORD what a waste. If nothing else, maybe this’ll teach Huddy to take himself out of a game when it’s time, since there’s nobody to do it for him. Bobby can catch on when there’s nobody standing on the mound to start the inning and warm someone up.

By Ron

April 25, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Can we please score runs other than Homeruns, and McCann and Clutch Frenchy driving in runs other than Homeruns, my gosh Wilson is pathedic, so is Langy, but guess what Langy will be starting LF against the next Righty mark it down!!!

By Lew

April 25, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Well-That ending was not only unexpected and wholly unsatisfying, but it also sucked royally.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

…and I did mean rolls, not roles, but only caught by the keen eye of jimmy—or was it the keen eye of jimmy imposter?…

By krath

April 25, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

I’m sure the players are really pi**ed about losing this game, but I don’t see it triggering a 10 game losing streak.

I guess McCann is kicking himself for letting that last pitch get away from him.

I guess Wickman is kicking himself for grooving a first pitch fastball to the first hitter he faced.

I guess Hudson is kicking himself for not making great pitches for just one more inning.

I guess Andruw is kicking himself for not putting any wood on the ball tonight especially with the bases loaded.

I guess Chipper is kicking himself for not getting a hit with a runner on second, but singling and homering with no one on.

I guess both Jones boys are kicking themselves for still failing to hit with runners in scoring position.

I guess Frenchy is kicking himself for going O-fer tonight.

And I guess Bobby is probably kicking himself now for not starting the 9th with Wickman.

The issues that this team had when the game started are still the issues that remained at the end of the game.

The back end of the rotation is a mess. The only help that is coming there will be from within…… be it good or bad. It’s just a fact of life, payroll and availability.

Hudson’s performance has got to be a boost for the team. He’s back it seems.

I’m thinking that when they take the field in Colorado, this game will be just a bad memory. I don’t anticipate it having the same effect as having no bullpen last season had on the team. Last year, they seemed to just wait to lose the game. I don’t feel like tonights game is gonna have any lasting effect other than…… it’s one that got away that shouldn’t have.

By Sir Stealth

April 25, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Ron, I’m really proud of your knowledge and Soriano’s heat fastball. I guess when Wickman got that first strikeout, maybe if the guy who struck out had had fear put in him that it woulda counted for 3 outs. I’m sure that after that, the guy knew he wasn’t gonna see a heat fastball so there was no chance of him grounding out or striking out like the last guy either. And that wild pitch was because Wickman didn’t throw a heat fastball.

It’s easy for you to say it shoulda been Soriano cause he didn’t pitch and we lost, but Wickman is the closer. It was the ninth inning and time to save the game. Wickman has been perfect at that all year. He usually throws strikes and the guy usually gets out. He has gotten out of jams before and he doesn’t get rattled. Soriano’s last few outings have seen a lot of deep fly balls. But hey, shoulda done this, shoulda done that. You’re a genius, I’m a moron. Whatever.

By me

April 25, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Is journalist jimmy smith white or black?

By pipifanasma

April 25, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

SAD, SAD, SAD… BOBBY LET THIS ONE GET AWAY… WTF? BC IS A GREAT MANAGER, BUT STUPID CRAP LIKE THIS MAKES YOU WONDER…

By Ron

April 25, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Sir Stelth, Good point about everything, should not have called you a moron, but damn it was a hard loss, yeah I am about finished venting, good point about all the division championships, almost forgot, because of this unbelievable loss, Good point though!!!

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss would like to inform all bloggers that the 10:10 post by TheSouthernJackAss was not TheSouthernJackAss but a nasty TheSouthernJackAss imposter that cannot spell correctly—TheSouthernJackAss would never misspell a simple word such as roles, no more than TheSouthernJackAss would misspell the simple words ugandan As$Clown…

By journalist jimmy smith

April 25, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

sja, it’s not sja posting as this journalist, is it? looks like sja has enough friends blogging with sja that it would not be necessary to torment this particular journalist. anyway, sja rarely mistakes rolls with roles and almost never with biscuits. scalp’em can help sja with the biscuits. jimmy smith has watched from afar during this matter of the heart and is impressed with the way sja is letting the young lady blogger down easily. journalist had to do much the same thing with diane lane. it is difficult being tall and handsome, right? sja is taller than this journalist but jimmy smith is quite handsome and knows never to eat a role.

By Ron

April 25, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

Sir Stealth, once again we disagree, I was with your last post but now your 10:43 post has me sayin something now. Wickman Is Our Closer, no doubt about it, but in that Situation, I think that Soriano would have been better, because of his heat, Yes I know that Wickman struck out the first batter, but Soriano would have put more fear into Almanzegas {or whatever his name is} eyes. But of cource I could have been wrong, or I might have been right, It really does not matter now because the game is over, Lets end this argument and watch the next series!!!

By ElbravoX

April 25, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

o cfdfggc

By SomeYahoo77

April 25, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

A tough one to take. Maybe the pitch count was a little high to let Huddy keep going. When he gets tired his ball doesn’t sink and he was tired in the 9th. 110 pitches going in. I might have had a shorter leash if I were Bobby, maybe after that second single I would have yanked him.

Just a tough inning all around, but there’s no reason to get down. We just got beat and we couldn’t close the deal. The Marlins put’em where we weren’t and a barrage of singles just happens sometimes.

Plus, the boys just finish a stretch of 15 straight games without an off day (a rain delayed game isn’t an off day), 8 of which were on the road, so they need the rest. Here’s to hoping they get on the plane for Denver with a little more juice to finish the next close one.

Andruw isn’t helping himself, that’s for sure. Maybe he’ll stink it up this year (a 27/80/.275 kind of stinking it up)and be willing to lower that uber-price tag when the phone doesn’t ring quite like he’d hope. I’d love to see him finish his career in the A. Just couldn’t stand seeing him in another jersey.

By miamid

April 25, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

Season: 84 and 78. Miss wild card by 4. I’m ready for some football.

By Steve-O

April 25, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

I am thoroughly depressed by this loss. My friend calls me and reads me Huddys line going into the 9th , right AWAY I said YES Wickmans in , GAME SEALED….Then he proceeded to give me play by play of it unfolding. So I went from Huddy 4-0 with a 0.49 and the team 14-7 in 1rst…..To Huddy 3-0 1.22 the team 13-8 and in 2nd……Depressing….

By krath

April 25, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

Actually…. Wickman was greeted with a first pitch double that pulled the Marlins to within a run.

By snaf3

April 25, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

GO BRAVES Personally I would have just left Huddy in the game. Its clear the boy was choking. Heck let’em fight through the bases loaded jam. Otherwise why leave Huddy in the game to start the 9th at all. What did anyone learn from that. I’m all for personal stats too but jeez, give me the victory.

What did Cox accomplished by that move? I’m saying, you don’t go from 21 games straight to the post season. Lets play the game right, dats what I’m saying

I’m saying, at least leaving Huddy in the game would have been less painful then watching Slow butt Bob. What’s even more painfull is the one year contract extension for Cox. He no doubt is the man but, its past time for him to go.

Heck I’m still hurting from the 1999 world series.

By Lee

April 25, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Ron, Totally agree about Soriano. I was thinking the same thing the whole time. And yes, lets just move on, God knows we would all rather forget what happened

By snaf3

April 25, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

GO BRAVES Personally I would have just left Huddy in the game. Its clear the boy was choking. Heck let’em fight through the bases loaded jam. Otherwise why leave Huddy in the game to start the 9th at all. What did anyone learn from that. I’m all for personal stats too but jeez, give me the victory.

What did Cox accomplished by that move? I’m saying, you don’t go from 21 games straight to the post season. Lets play the game right, dats what I’m saying

I’m saying, at least leaving Huddy in the game would have been less painful then watching Slow butt Bob. What’s even more painfull is the one year contract extension for Cox. He no doubt is the man but, its past time for him to go.

Heck I’m still hurting from the 1999 world series.

By Jared

April 25, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Hindsight is 20/20 people. The “armchair managers” are out in force now, just KNOWING they would have made the right call. If Bobby Cox had put Wickman in and he blew this game, everyone would be asking “why take Hudson out? He was pitching so good.”

David O’Brien: if the Braves keep getting diddly squat from the offensive position of leftfield, will we see Brandon Jones anytime soon? Please tell me yes.

You can’t keep a defensive leftfielder. If it was someone who played great defense at any infield position aside from first, I could understand. But a defensive leftfielder? Come on.

By stan

April 25, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

GO BRAVES Personally I would have just left Huddy in the game. Its clear the boy was choking. Heck let’em fight through the bases loaded jam. Otherwise why leave Huddy in the game to start the 9th at all. What did anyone learn from that. I’m all for personal stats too but jeez, give me the victory.

What did Cox accomplished by that move? I’m saying, you don’t go from 21 games straight to the post season. Lets play the game right, dats what I’m saying

I’m saying, at least leaving Huddy in the game would have been less painful then watching Slow butt Bob. What’s even more painfull is the one year contract extension for Cox. He no doubt is the man but, its past time for him to go.

Heck I’m still hurting from the 1999 world series.

By geauxbraves2000

April 25, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

I just hope this game doesn’t affect Huddy.

It’s one of those tough loses that every team goes through. I guess I’m numb to that fact because of last year. But this is a different year, and this kind of stuff happens. As long as it doesn’t have a mental affect on Huddy or the rest of the team.

It was a horrible loss, and blame can be spread everywhere, but blaming does no good, learning does.

Geaux Braves!!

By MrC

April 25, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

I can see that the emotions have gotten the best of us, including me. Tough, tough loss. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, is easy to do in hindsight. As I watched the 9th inning and played manager along with the rest of you, I can honestly say that I would have made exactly the same moves that occured. Sometimes these things happen. I chalk this up to a lessons learned. The lesson tonight is to NEVER bring in Wickman with more than 1 runner on base. He may not be the same pitcher as starting an inning or with more runners on base.
The real problem for this team continues to be LF, 1B and the back of the starting rotation. Wilson and Langerhans have got to quit playing as part of platoon. Late inning defense and pinch hitting are it. An occassional start every 10 days or so is about it. Unfortunately I do not think there is much that can be done about the back end of the rotation until Cormier gets well if then (fingers crossed). Althought, Oscar starting is crossing my mind.

By DAP

April 25, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

someone here already said it, but wickman shouldnt be brought in with runner one. hes not that kind of pitcher. he gives up too many hits. it would have been a great time for soriano.

this hurts, but hopefully the team will put it behind them and take care of business at coors.

By tlj

April 25, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

Since Bobby Cox gets all of the blame when the Braves lose, I assume he gets all of the credit when they win.

Since the Braves have won more games than they have lost, I guess Mr Cox must be doing a pretty good job.

By journalist jimmy smith

April 25, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

has this journalist touched a jackass nerve? where are the nerves located on a jackass? or is it true that someone other than sja is blogging tonight as sja - just as someone is doing with journalist jimmy smith? in any case, if stinky is back it will not be long before banishment rears its ugly head - again.

jimmysmiththinks sja doth protest too much on the rolls matter. it is a simple error as those familiar with the poles taken earlier can attest.

now, since sja already has a nemesis on this blog - and it is not jimmy smith - this journalist will turn the other cheek and let bygones be bygones with the ugandan a*******clown remark. free pass. sja can return to amusing all with witty banter with the female blogger (female, right?).

now, grinch … that may have been turkey grease or then again bobby always rubs up the ball when bobby changes pitchers - and as several have pointed out tonight, bobby was digging in bobby’s nose again tonight. this journalist predicts bobby will have tissues in the dugout tomorrow.

By mr baseball

April 25, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Sorry to break it to those of you who are always defending Cox until he makes a move that backfires, but you can’t have it both ways. Cox is a players’ manager. That’s probably his strongest asset. He backs his players to the hilt and is more loyal to them than he is committed to winning a particular game. That’s why he leaves his veteran starters in games beyond the point where the should be lifted. He wants them to win more than he wants the team to win.

As I have posted here previously, Cox has always been, and always will be, a sub-standard strategist, especially in regards to handling his pitching staff. But that’s something those of you who revere him as a manager have to accept, however grudgingly. If he was a little more ruthless in such situations, his players might not love him so much but they might win more games.

This kind of loss happens every month or so to the Braves during the season, and if you like Cox as a manager, you have to accept it. It’s who he is. What I found particularly galling about the loss is that Cox picked the absolute worst time to bring in Wickman. It would have been acceptable to yank Hudson after the first hit or with two on and no outs, but once he loaded the bases, you knew something very bad was about to happen.

Wickman is unaccustomed to pitching in that kind of situation, although it wasn’t entirely his fault. The ball Amezega hit should have been an out, and McCann certainly didn’t help him any.

108 pitches was plenty, but not for your beloved manager. Deal with it, and don’t whine when he does exactly what you love him for.

By Robert

April 25, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

“Robert is clearly delighted at this loss.”

Not at all. I’d be delighted if it led to change, but I’m resigned to the fact it wont

Let’s go beat up on the Rockies

By David O'Brien

April 25, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Did that really just happen?

You guys don’t know how much re-writing was involved in that game. Let’s just say, good thing it wasn’t ending at about 11 p.m. I’m fried.

For the record, I thought Bobby should have taken Huddy out after the second hit. Just because the tying run’s coming to the plate with no outs, and you’ve got Wickman, who hadn’t given up a run or blown a save this season, and had blown only once since coming to Atlanta.

By Chop Chop

April 25, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Jared, the way you protect yourself in Bobby’s situation is to be ready to yank the starter if he gets himself into any kind of trouble in the ninth. Bobby let Hudson put his head in the noose and tighten the knot. A manager is supposed to protect his starter from blowing a game in that situation. Bobby hung Huddy out to dry and it burned the team tonight.

I also question playing the infield in with one out and the bases loaded and a one-run lead. I think you have to go for the double play in that situation, even if the runner (Amezaga, in this case) is fast. If a runner scores on a grounder, oh well. You have to get an out on a bloop like Amezaga hit.

All in all, there’s plenty to second-guess about that inning, but the only thing that matters is the Braves blew the game.

By krath

April 25, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

Last post of the night I promise.

There was a lot at play in the 9th. As I have said repeatedly, I would have started Huddy in the ninth. Once the bases were loaded, I swear to God I said to myself “this game is lost….worst possible situation to bring a pitcher like Wickman into!” The key, after the bases were loaded was Wickman, don’t matter how we got there. He’s a pitch to contact closer, end of story.

Clearly, Soriano would have been a better option….but what message does that send to Wickman if you bring in Soriano? Sure, you may win the game but don’t tell me that Wickman would be alright with that move. What would be the lingering effect from a personnel standpoint? Would it mess him up mentally or would it just pi** him off? And like it or not….that is part of the game as well, personalities. He’s the man at the end and you have to go with him because that’s his role….period.

Although I would have made the same move Bobby made, he painted himself into a corner by making it.

I swear….. I don’t see him leaving a starter in again for the ninth unless he has maybe 5 runs to play with. The type of closer you have dictates what you have to do and with Wickman it’s clear he needs the bases clean and not jammed like they were when he arrived. Either that or lots of runs to play with.

Not a slam on Wickman, just the type of closer he is. He needs to start innings….not arrive when the fire is on the verge of being out of control.

By David O'Brien

April 25, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

Jared, odd night to point out the LF black hole, given that one of the three runs tonight was a Diaz homer.

But I agree with you on the need for production there vastly superior to what they’ve gotten thus far.

I asked a Braves coach familiar with Bradon Jones if he could play left field up here right now, and he said, no question. Kid’s got power, can hit for average, good arm, very athletic.

That said, I don’t know that it’s a realistic idea, for now. He had shoulder surgery at end of last season, and I’d think they want him to get more time in the upper minors.

Of course, if they keep getting .150 or under production and no power from LF…

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

…poles attest?…

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

Jake Peavy struck out 9 in a row tonight. He has 16 through 7 innings. 9 in a row is one shy of Tom Seaver’s all time record of 10 in a row. Peavy has the chance to equal or beat the all time single game K total.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 25, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

…”blown only once”?…DOB made a funny…

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

Incredible game right now between the Padres and the Diamondbacks. Webb vs Peavy. 2-0 Padres. Both starters still in the game.

By TennesseePaul

April 25, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Crap. They just took Peavy out. Oh Well. 16 Ks in a game is pretty frickin good.

By Chop Chop

April 25, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

What are the odds that Langerhans and Wilson get their first homers out in Colorado? I can feel it coming. One of those guys just might go ape** out there and mess with our heads.

By GermanBravesFan

April 25, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

DOB… I posted this question on the other blog, but I guess I posted it a bit too late, so I’ll ask you this question again: what happens to Mike Hampton’s salary for this season? Will it be covered by insurance? If so, would that mean that the Braves could pursue a trade for a starting pitcher (provided there is one available) or outfielder?

Grinch: saw your post on the other blog. Good choice of beer! I wish I could make it to a game, but I am afraid I’ll have to go to SFO in July! If I’ll go, I will try to go early to watch batting practice. Would love to come out to The Ted some time this summer; if I do, let’s have some dark German beer!

By The Grinch

April 25, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

So you think the boog in the broadcast booth wasn’t the only one in the game, huh? Interesting theory. What’s up with the picture selection on the front page of the AJC website? There’s a pic of a smiling Christina Aquilera right next to a pic of a foot-long hot dog. Coincidence? I think not. G’night, all.

By F A Skippy

April 25, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox is simply put the best at his job there is.So how does a great manager manage a discharge of cranial gas like tonight ? I was shaking my head at his leaving Hudson in too long.Lets hope this doesn’t weaken Hudson’s body or will, it’s the kind of thing that could do either or both.

By Soft Jeremy

April 25, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

Mr and Mrs Hermida of Marietta, Georgia—-You have raised a candy butt of a son who has NO interest in whether he plays or not. The last series the Marlins played in Atlanta one of the Braves color men proclaimed—“I’ve never heard of anyone missing this amount of time because of fouling a ball off of a kneecap. Kid should see Andruw Jones’knees”—-This is a quote—AND NOW!! days later the Marlins are still babying the wimp!!!

Jerewmy was the kid scouts loved over Jeff—-But now I believe people in the know in baseball realize the kid has as much intestinal fortitude as certain Gaelic countries have demonstrated during occupations!!

Someone in your family get in his face and tell him the snickers have begun in baseball, and what if he played(well, Jeremy rarely plays)in a market like New York , Boston, Chicago or Philly that actually cares about toughness of its athletes??Jeremy, mommy and daddy won’t say it——-You Are

GUTLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By flbravesgirl

April 26, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

Bleeecchh. (I can think of some other words to describe this game but it wouldn’t be ladylike for me to use them.)

Doesn’t it seem as if the Braves have 1 or 2 heartbreaker games like this in Miami every year?

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

April 26, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this

I have to say that Cox blew it tonight and there is no other way to put it. I thought that situation would have been much better suited for Soriano or Gonzales. The Braves needed strikeouts. Wickman is a guy who puts the ball in play. Not to mention Hudson should have been taken out after the second single.

I think they will put this behind them. But, lets be honest. The game should have never been that close. They had chances to score and didn’t do it. I love Andruw but I have to really wonder if he is worth $20 mil to any team. He just seems to be disappoint way too much when the team needs a big hit. He is nowhere near one of their top clutch hitters. McCann, Francoeur, Chipper, Renteria, Johnson, and even Diaz are all way better hitters in the clutch.

By Chop Chop

April 26, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

Soft Jeremy, Joe Simpson mentioned Hermida tonight. He also stated that maybe there’s a fracture in the kneecap that the MRI didn’t see. He didn’t completely throw Hermida under the bus like you’re doing.

By N8

April 26, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

””[Hudson] dominated the whole ballgame,” Cox said. “and he got straight groundballs in the ninth and not one was close to anybody. It was the most amazing thing.”“

Classic Bobby at his best.

LOVE IT!

By gotigers72

April 26, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Someone said that teams lose some games as the Braves did tonight, and win some games that way, and that is true. The Braves usually play well after bad losses like that.

That being said, Andruw needs to be moved from the cleanup spot. Put Frenchy or McCann there. Andruw is hitting a cool .230 and striking out way too much. And tries to pull EVERYTHING! Why does he continue in his pull happy ways when it’s not working? Joe Simpson said tonight that he wants to hit every ball out of the park. Maybe these last 2 years with all the homers has made him worse as a hitter. if he doesn’t start listening and stop being so stubborn, he’s never gonna live up to his potential.

By Jared

April 26, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

“I have to say that Cox blew it tonight and there is no other way to put it. I thought that situation would have been much better suited for Soriano or Gonzales. The Braves needed strikeouts. Wickman is a guy who puts the ball in play.”

Wickman was the right choice. He’s a double play guy. The Braves needed a double play. Too bad Wickman only got the “double” part right with the first batter.

These things happen. No one knows what would have happened it Gonzalez came in, or Soriano, or if Hudson never pitcher at all, or if Bobby Cox took Hudson out after the first single or second single. No one knows what could have happened. Why does everyone act like they just know things would have been a-okay if this or that was done at this specific time? It’s easy to judge it AFTER it happens.

Next game at Turner Field, after the inevitable 0-for-whatever from Mr. 2-for-2007 Ryan Langerhans, the fans should chant: “promote Brandon Jones, promote Brandon Jones”.

By N8

April 26, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

“….he’s never gonna live up to his potential.”

He’s been in the league for 11 years now. If he hasn’t lived up to his “potential” yet, he’s not gonna.

That’s not to say, he’s not good. He is. But he will NEVER be the hitter he had the potential to be, until he realizes that there is a lot of space to hit the ball to the RIGHT of CF too.

By Bill

April 26, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this

This is the worst. This loss will probably put them in a long losing streak. I have been a big supporter of Bobby Cox but no more. He should have taken Hudson out at the end of the 8th inning. Hudson was beginning to lose his command of pithes. It’s time for him to retire now. Bobby this loss is on you.

By N8

April 26, 2007 12:44 AM | Link to this

Jared

“It’s easy to judge it AFTER it happens.”

For the record, I’m guessing that 99.9 percent of the people “complaining” were complaining before Hudson pitched to the second batter in the 9th (I was). Which would mean that we were “judging it” before it happened. At the very least, we were judging it WHILE it happened.

Really no different than you begging for Brandon Jones AFTER Langerhans has stunk it up for a month. How come you weren’t calling for Brandon Jones BEFORE the season started? What makes you think things wil be “a-okay” after Brandon Jones comes up?

Not trying to be an A$$ (because I agree with you about Langerhans). Just thought I’d play a friendly game of Pot & Kettle with you.

By Coach

April 26, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

Just shut up already , S**t happens. It happened in the ninth. Hudson got three straight ground balls to start the ninth , chalk it up to bad luck and forget about it. Not a one of you could have prevented it or done a better job than Cox.

By F A Skippy

April 26, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this

Jared I for one didn’t say I know what would have happened if Hudson was pulled sooner,just that it would have been the better move.The better move however doesn’t always work out,my problem with a game like this is now we have questions with how Hudson and Wickman react and if Hudson is weakened by the long work.

By Drew

April 26, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this

DOB, couple questions about some of the young guys. I know you’d mentioned Dan Smith a while back. He’s tearing up AA at 3-1, 1.64 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, and 23 K’s in 22 innings. Any idea what the plans are for him? Do the Braves plan on keeping him as a starter, or is his future in the bullpen? Also, do you think Kevin Barry has a shot to get some starts again at the big league level in the near future if Davies and Redman continue to struggle? Would he be the first guy in line? Finally, have you noticed Willie Harris at AAA? He was really good in the spring and is doing great so far this season. .360/.459 OBP in 50 at bats so far. I know he really has no spot on the big league team right now, but if Langerhans continues to struggle, do you think Harris’s speed would help him get a callup? I know he is predominantly an infielder, but just wondering.

By brian

April 26, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this

as far as LF goes - I like more and more DOBs idea of Cliff Floyd (good game tonight) - the Cubs have 5 starters in the OF- Floyd, Murton, Soriano, Jones, and Pie. If Wilson continues to struggle and is waived I could see Diaz being moved into a 1B platoon and then having Brandon Jones and Floyd share time in LF.

At the very least it would take away one of our favorite things to complain about since I know that JS really concerns himself with our thoughts, ideas, and opinions. After all, who does he think he is to ignore us?

By brian

April 26, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this

I am still concerned with the percentage of our runs scored via HR.

Another Floyd comment, aside from stats, clubhouse persona has always been important to the Braves. DOBs character reference should be noted by JS and he sounds like the type of player that JS would love to get into a Braves uni

By ElbravoX

April 26, 2007 2:02 AM | Link to this

This is Mrs. X, Mr. X was taken away on an ambulance. He was last heard screaming the word cox and bullpen. Let’s all pray for my dear husband, please.

By Coach

April 26, 2007 2:03 AM | Link to this

you can second guess a manager till your blue on the face. Why didn’t Cox take Hudson out after eight ? Well , go check the Padres box score and explain to me why Jake Peavy wasn’t left in the game. Peavy struck out 16 in seven innings(nine in a row at one point) while giving up just two hits and three walks. Like Hudson , he had a shutout working. Bud Black took him out and went with his bullpen and guess what ? Linebrink gives up a run in the eighth and their closer , Hoffman cough’s up a two run bomb in the ninth to lose the game 3-2. Second guess all you want , but sometimes a manager can do everything right and his team will still lose.

By bergian

April 26, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this

ummmm…what everyone else said….except coach. I know I could have done better than Bobby tonight! ;)

By Coach

April 26, 2007 2:20 AM | Link to this

Dear Bobby Cox , please explain to me the rational of putting your two biggest strikeout risk’s(Andruw/Francoeur) back to back in the line up. Meanwhile , your two toughest outs on the team(Chipper/McCann)are sandwiched around them. I do not understand why McCann was batting sixth , nor will I try to defend the sheer stubborness of a manager I deeply respect. Bobby , this has to stop , it’s backward. Chipper 3rd , Andruw 4th , McCann 5th and Francoeur sixth , that is a more productive line up.

By Coach

April 26, 2007 2:26 AM | Link to this

Bergian , you couldn’t run a ten cent lemonade stand without getting second guessed.

By Braves Fan 79

April 26, 2007 2:35 AM | Link to this

so whos the 13 IDIOTS that think James should be out of the rotation over Redmen??? In fact everyone that didnt vote for Redmen to be moved out is a IDIOT!!

By Took my VALIUM

April 26, 2007 2:56 AM | Link to this

I want to report that I took my meds and I’m all good now. I still have to go to Home Depot today and get some spacklin for the frikin hole I put in wall. Also, need new frikin remote that became recyclable after impact with wall. TOUGH LOSS. Now on to more important stuff- Doesn’t WICK look a might portly & chubbbby? And has anyone told our coachin staff to buy the no fat/no sugar/no heart attack variety of grazing material? Jez- run around the bases every once and awhile guys. GET ON THE FRIKIN TREADMILL.

By Bravo Nam

April 26, 2007 3:31 AM | Link to this

Second Guessing

This blog takes the award for the highest percentage of second guessers!

BC has made some head scratching decisions this year. Tonight wasn’t one of them. Hudson was absolutely dominant through 8 innings. You bring him in the 9th. If BC had’ve brought in Wickman or S/G to start the ninth and the Braves lost, all the second guessers on here bashing BC for bringing Huddy back would’ve been bashing him for NOT bringing him back!

Wickman started warming up AFTER the first single. In a perfect world he would’ve been ready after the second single, but he wasn’t.

Overall BC did a sound job- the Braves got some unlucky breaks in the ninth (and a botched play).

Anyway, like most of us on this blog, BC won’t be crying over spilt milk- what he’s better at than any Manager in baseball is getting a team back on track after a bad loss- and they’ll be firing on all cylinders in Colorado!

By Scott

April 26, 2007 4:20 AM | Link to this

Anyone else notice that Salty is KILLING it at AA this year? 6 homeruns already. Get him a first base glove now and move Thorman back to left field.

By serbok

April 26, 2007 4:27 AM | Link to this

I have been a braves fan since sonny jackson roamed ss and denver lemaster pitched a few tosses I’m sorry guys~ This is classic BC talent~ He really doesnt have any managerial skills~Doesant see things that are very obvious~ I mean~I understand loyalty~ but I also understand that sometimes you eat the bar~and sometimes the bar eats you~ Theres only one reason the bar ate us 2night~ and When! we make it to the playoffs! Thanks to john shuerholz~ BC will screw it up again:o( I like BC/ however his decisions thruout the last 15 yrs have been nothing more than horrible~ I like BC I just hope this team gets to the playoffs in spite of him~ I am a life long tampa bay buccaneers fan~ Gruden won a Super Bowl because Dungey handed a team over to him that was ready to win it all. JS has handed BC a team that has been ready to win it all for 14 out of 15 years!!!!!!! Again I like BC// but as far as being an innovater and on the cutting edge of winning is all due to JS!

By serbok

April 26, 2007 4:51 AM | Link to this

one more thing~ I very much appreciate touching on music on this blog~ AND I can’t resist telling the whole world~ That I have tickets 4 rows from the center of the stage for the greatest Show of ALL time going on in our lives right now! Roger Waters May 19 at the Ford amphitheatre in Tampa Florida!

He will be doing the entire DSOTM and the concert is projected to last 3 hours! All iI can say to willy Aybar is to try and shine on you crazy diamomd! I wish the guy the best:o)

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 5:22 AM | Link to this

Serbok, blog on you late-night crazy diamond….

Nothing like getting to the airport before they open the ticket counters and security lines. This is the glamorous part of my job, the 3:30 a.m. wakeup call to catch the flight to Atlanta for the connection to Denver….

Well, the Braves were bound to blow a lead after 6 innings at some point. Sure didn’t see that coming last night, however. Not 3-0 in the ninth. Wow, what a perfect storm of events for the Marlins. That Amezega bloop single to the back of the infield, with Edgar shading over toward second and Chipper in _ it’s a bloop shot off his bat handle, absolutely routine play if the infield’s in normal position, which it wasn’t with bases loaded. Anyway….

They got snow in Colorado past couple days, but supposed to be 70 tomorrow and up to 80 this weekend. Gonna be chilly at night, but beautiful overall, it appears….

Coach, you gotta wonder how many votes Huddy or Smoltz would’ve received if they’d been included in the poll. Some folks amuse themselves that way….

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 5:25 AM | Link to this

Oh, and gotigers, that Van CD could be about three-quarters of his entire catalog, bro. You gotta give me more to go on. But if you don’t have Moondance or No Guru… , by all means get them.

By Robert

April 26, 2007 6:10 AM | Link to this

“”Three straight groundballs in the ninth — not one was close to anyone,” Braves manager Bobby Cox said. “It was the most amazing thing.”

Uh huh. It WAS amazing. Amazing that a pitcher who was starting to get the ball up in the zone two innings prior was left out there to give up not one, not two, but THREE straight hits to lead off the bottom of the ninth

Yes, it was Hudson, not Cox, who gave up the hits. Yes, it was McCann, and not Cox, who let the ball get away. And yes, it was Wickman, and not Cox, who finished the disaster.

But the team was set up to lose. Y’all can chalk this one up as the second game this year flat out lost because of Donk

That quote was just mint. I’m wondering whether Cox saw those three amazing ground ball hits live or on Sportscenter

We’re 13-8. We should be 15-6.

Coach, none of us could’ve managed that game better than Bobby did? Dude, come on. I think even you could’ve found a way to stow that one away in the W column. And noone would’ve had to run thru a wall to get it done.

And, just for the sake of accuracy, Cox spent the rest of the evening not second guessing himself, but making dumb comments and munching sugar cubes.

By Robert

April 26, 2007 6:16 AM | Link to this

“BC has made some head scratching decisions this year. Tonight wasn’t one of them. Hudson was absolutely dominant through 8 innings. You bring him in the 9th.”

Letting Hudson start the ninth wasnt the problem. Leaving him in after two and then three straight hits was.

Thru the course of a long season, a talented team like the Braves will win a lot of games. But put us in a close and late situation where strategy is gonna the difference, and we are in BIG trouble

Am I glad the Braves lost? NO

I find it encouraging that some folks are starting to rethink the situation.

I am not at all surprised to see that Coach’s response to it all was to bury his head six inches deeper up his behind

By Tom-e-Hawk

April 26, 2007 6:40 AM | Link to this

Sorry guys there will be games like this from time to time. It is a long season. If I remember correctly, the Marlins lost a similar game in Atlanta late in the year last season. Bobby is still a good manager, give the boys from South Florida a little credit. The key was Olsen shutting down the Braves offense after the first two inings. That lost us the game - we should have put up 5 more runs on the board.

By serbok

April 26, 2007 6:46 AM | Link to this

tick tock~ guess I’m the only rat that ran up the clock? I think it deserves a beer! However I have found that it will not be from the venerable beat writer whom is supposed to handle the concessions:(

but thats ok~ I will be comfortably numb much quicker than most:o) GO~ Bravos!

By Coach

April 26, 2007 6:49 AM | Link to this

Robot , your a genius. Never mind that fact that no one was up in the bullpen until after the second single. Why would they be ? Hudson was in the ninth , he had dominated , the Marlins hit a couple of seeing eye ground balls through the infield. Wickman wasn’t ready until after the bases were loaded , but of course you didn’t know that until now. Do I have to tell you everything ? Were you buried somewhere in the bowels of the stadium and didn’t bother to actually see that ? Pure genius , you and your 45 IQ.

By serbok

April 26, 2007 7:17 AM | Link to this

as much as i Disagree with sirstealths comments earlier~ It does actually make more sense to have hudson try and close the game than to bring on Wick. At least hudson had a feel for the game~and was perfunctionary~ he may well have gotten out of the mess! However~ I dont think its a secret that you do NOT bring in a closer with / Wicks stuff over a closer that has strikeout abilities~strange as it seems~ leaving in Huddy may have been the correct move? HOWEVER! IT is very poor managerial decision that lost this game~? Sorta makes me wonder why langerhans is still in left? could it be loyalty? NAW~ couldnt be that/ I say~(we boldly go where no man or woman have gone before!) Let Langerhans bat Leadoff! Even then BC might notice~ the guy cant hit? just a thought~

By NappyHeadedHo

April 26, 2007 7:24 AM | Link to this

Coach, you’re an idiot. Just the second word from you is spelled incorrectly. “Robot , your a genius.” It’s “you’re”. Homonyms tough on you? Then you go on to trash the language even more. Stop questioning other people’s intellect when yours is highly suspect.

By NappyHeadedHo

April 26, 2007 7:26 AM | Link to this

Coach, you’re an idiot. Before you call people names, learn how to spell “you’re”. Homonyms are tough on you? Then you go on further to trash the English language.

By krath

April 26, 2007 7:32 AM | Link to this

Coach… your 2:03 post was dead on!

Pads pulled Peavy when he was dealing and the pen blew the game.

It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

By ChampDawg

April 26, 2007 7:39 AM | Link to this

Well, Boobie Cox blew it this time. His “loyalty” to players cost this one.

By serbok

April 26, 2007 7:48 AM | Link to this

nappyheadedho~ this imus is about baseball? we all will make typo’s to give you an example~ I might blog 2morrow~ Doubt I will talk about the nippyheadedho;s (japanese?) and very seriousley that I will offend anyone/` (unless in good taste?)Irregardlessly speaking~I may even disregard this post? right now I be a studyin’ on the word~ antidisestablishmentarianism? However a walks as good as hit? to a blind horse:o) (most times?) I personally think~ the english language is trashed after an idiot opens he or she’s mouth?

By Boclive

April 26, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this

Even if Bobby Cox sends Hudson out to pitch to the first batter in the ninth inning, he should have had Wickman warming in the bullpen. ONLY a three run lead equals a save opportunity.

When Huddy walked the FIRST batter in the ninth he should have yanked him.

This one belongs to Bobby Cox and no one else.

He’s a knucklehead and you can tell him I said so.

p.s. It is not Ryan Langerhans inability to hit that offends me. It is his swing.

By BravesFanKennesaw

April 26, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this

Agreed with ChampDwag, B. Cox allow this one got away.

Also, I think Huddie should be careful next time when he pitches to the Marlins. They’ve seen him a lot and looks like they start to figure him out.

Yeah, I do see Oscar in the line up soon too.

But all in all, we still have a great team. No worries about 1B and LF, they will come around.

GO Braves !!

By dadgum

April 26, 2007 8:14 AM | Link to this

Haven’t had time to read the blog but just wondering….with 4 nasty relievers/closers what the hell was Huddy pitching the ninth for anyway. The ninth started as a save opportunity so why not have Wick or Sorio or Gonzo close it out? Huddy had to be close to 100 pitches. Not going to go on a Cox bashing here but didn’t we get these guys so our starters didn’t have to pitch deep into games. Say what you want that they were bloops and grounders that found daylight I ain’t buying it. The Braves played Russian Roulette with Huddy and gave it away. It looked that way to me anyway.

By Robert

April 26, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

” Never mind that fact that no one was up in the bullpen until after the second single.”

And that right there is the problem.

If I’m the manager, I might very well let Hudson trot out there to start the 9th. The guy HAD gotten a few pitches up in the 7th and 8th, but overall he had dominated - give him a shot at the shutout

But at the same time, I’m gonna make I’ve got someone warmed up and ready to take over at the first hint of trouble.

It’s the deal with letting Chipper chase 100 rbi’s a few years back. Letting them try for it isnt the problem. Not having any thought of the possibility it might not work out or working plan to fall back on if it doesnt - THAT is the problem

Coach - It doesnt take a genius to realize there is a problem when it’s staring you in the face, like when the bases are loaded with noone out. It DOES take a semblence of a brain to be aware of and to plan for a problem that might pop up but isnt present yet. That’s what’s missing

By Braves20

April 26, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Vintage Cox - Bases loaded, no outs, you might not want to bring in a pitcher who pitches to contact but one of those two studs who average more than a K an inning. Provided horrible flashbacks to ‘91.

By mike in 'Fretta

April 26, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

What a frustrating loss last night. The Braves absolutely have to win those games and to blow it in the bottom of the 9th….man it just sucks! Andruw needs to start producing. How many times do we have to watch him strikeout because he is swinging so hard he falls over? He doesn’t need to hit HR’s every time up, in fact I would much rather see him hit closer to 30 HR’s and bump up his batting average to around .285. He has shown throughout his career that he is stubborn though and apparently it is in his head that if he just swings a little harder he might eventually make contact and hit a 500 ft+ HR.

It’s hard to be positive about the team after a loss like that, especially when we could have taken back 1st place. Braves have to do better against inferior opponents.

By Carroll

April 26, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

Anybody who can defend that circus last night gives me serious cause for concern. There is NOTHING you can say about it to justify or make it right.

It was an epic pitching performance flushed down the toilet by pure stupidity. It was NOT just one of those games that will happen over the course of a long season; it was NOT just another L; it was not just a blown save. It was a game nestled firmly in our W column until that dumbass donkey waddled over to the Marlins dugout and said: “here ya go.” A truly devastating debacle, and I only hope it hasn’t ruined our team’s psyche such that it sends them into a tailspin (remember last June, anyone??!!)

For all of you who seem to think that games only count half as much in April, or who seem incapable of conceiving that such a “long season” could come down to a handful of games, come talk to me at the end of the year! If we find ourselves ringing our hands over one or two losses here or there that kept us out of the playoffs, I will be happy to remind you about this one!

For those of you claiming that Huddy should have started the ninth b/c he was dealing, consider the following. Bobby is supposed to be mature and responsible enough as a manager to resist those urges that you and I would have to let Huddy go after the complete game shoutout.

And as many have said on here, even if you can justify Huddy going out there to start it, there’s no excuse for him staying out there longer than 1 base hit. And I agree with RObert that you could tell Huddy started to lose it in the 7th….he started giving up solid hits and had me concerned all the way to the end. Plus we ALL know about Huddy’s propensity to lose it, and lose it FAST (Game 4, Houston 2005 anybody?)

Another thing to consider as far as Cox goes is that he inexplicably used Wickman the night before in a blowout game. Perhaps had he not been so stupid, he wouldn’t have been hesitant to start the 9th with Wickman, and perhaps Wicky would have been a little sharper. Regardless, we had 2 other closers ready to go. I just don’t get it.

Robert is right folks. You may not like his hyperbole, but he is unquesitonably right in his criticisms of Cox.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

who would of thought that KJ would be doing better right now than McCann and Frenchy who themselves are off to really good starts?

But I guess KJ was really the first of the Baby Braves of 2005 to get the call up, presumably because he was more ready than Frenchy and McCann at the time.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

my opinion of Thorman is really changing. That guy needs to play more. I thought Wilson would win this job outright by the end of May. But as we approach the end of April, Thorman is the one hitting and Wilson is the one floundering and Wilson is the one getting all the playing time because of all the lefties we are seeing.

By Jersey Gil

April 26, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

You know guys i sick and tired of the kind of fan that when we win your guys say that Bobby is a genius and when we loss like last night now Bobby is a bad manager, When you are a good Atlanta Braves fan like me( from 1960”s thru 1980’S with horrible season bad team)and then living in New jersey with a Wive as a Philadelphia Fan, you have to take this loss and move on. Yes was a hard loss to take, special the kind of Games Huddy have, career strike out. But i shore that Bobby ask him how was he feeling to let him in the 9th. Come on we have a good team this year, it just April. Go Braves…go Braves

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this

the dilemma for me is which one goes if you get a professional left fielder: Diaz or Langerhans or both? Diaz is good for his bat but for no pop and little OBP other than his average. Langerhans is great defensively which is more valuable as a backup outfielder. I would go with Langerhans if we could get someone else in here. BUT I am aware that no one else is likely to be coming in here right now to play left. Darn! If only we could combine Diaz’s hitting skills with Langerhans’ eye and Langy’s fielding, we would have one helluva backup outfielder.

By BoredwithBraves

April 26, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

“Booby” should have pulled Hudson after the first single. “Booby” always waits TOO long in these situations late in the game with a lead.

And may I add that these infantile nicknames for the players are just SO cute ! Huddy, Wicky, Frenchy…so why not “Booby” Cox? or Cocky? As the boys on South Park would say: “dude…that is SO GAY!” Those silly names are as embarrassing as the late game meltdowns.

By stan

April 26, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

Neil Young is as relevant today as he was 30 years ago… Gotta love Cortez the Killer as well… Only current artist that approaches him is Jeff Tweedy (Wilco/Golden Smog)… Thanks for the baseball and music.

By T-TownDawg

April 26, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this

Coach, No one was warming up in the 9th, but Soriano had been up in the 8th. He was ready to go. I’m no Booby Cox fan, but I think he made the right decision letting Huddy start the 9th. He screwed us by not pulling him after the 1st or 2nd hit. He waited until the $h!t was really deep and Wick had almost no chance of recovering. The only way Wick gets out of that without blowing it was if he were pitching to our #4, #& and #8 hitters.

By STRETCH

April 26, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this

THE SAME OLD BUTTY COCKS!!! ATLANTA WILL NEVER WIN ANOTHER CHAMPIONSHIP WITH THIS GUY CALLING THE SHOTS. GET RID OF ANDRUW, LINGER HANDS, WILSON AND ORR. THAT WAS SIMPLY PATHETIC LAST NIGHT. AND GET THIS, THE PHILLIES ARE PLAYING BETTER NOW. WE ARE GONNA BE IN THIRD PLACE PRETTY SOON GUYS.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

Dates to remember:

April 12, 2007 - Cox doesn’t pull Smoltz soon enough in the fateful eighth.

April 25, 2007 - Cox doesn’t pull Hudson soon enough in the catastrophic ninth.

April 6, 2007 & April 13, 2007 - Mark Well Fedman train wrecks.

If we end up losing this title race by a handful of games, remember those dates. More are sure to come I guess.

By Lew

April 26, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

He goes too long with the starter. He is overusing the bullpen. Whatever. It doesn’t matter what way BC goes, someone, usually Robert and Carroll are going to b1tch. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. The loss was hours ago, y’all. Time to move on. Stuff happens. Buck it up and move on to Denver. You got an off day to get your emotions under control. It will be nice to play someone not in the NL East for a change. Calm down before y’all blow a blood vessel.

By cmgresh

April 26, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

it’s one loss which means very little over the course of a 162 game season (unless we finish 1 game behind the Mets) so can’t really get too crazy but there are a couple things with this team that are standing out…

1. Thorman has to play everday at 1B. They did the same thing platooning LaRoche a couple of years ago and he could never fully get in a groove. Once they played him everyday, he went out and hit 30 HRs last year. Not saying Thorman will hit that many, but a hitter becomes consistent playing everyday. You can’t be comfortable playing 2 or 3 times a week.

2. I’ve only seen Brandon Jones a couple times in spring training, but if he has any kind of game and has shown anything this year in the minors, you have to bring him up. Langy and Diaz are TERRIBLE. If you keep one as a backup, I say keep Diaz for his ability to maybe pop a homer as a pinch hitter in the late innings.

3. Hudson and Wickman will be fine. They are veterans and have been around this game long enough to know not to let one game affect them.

4. Lance Cormier needs to come back healthy. He is the key to the back of the bullpen.

By Bill

April 26, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

It’s amazing how smart a person can get - second guessing Cox after the game. It’s sure an advantage - one that Cox doesn’t have when he makes a decision - to know the end result of that decision.

I’d be a rich man if I could bet on horse races after the results of the race were in.

By Carroll

April 26, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

Lew: why do you dismiss all of my valid points by saying I would complain either way? I was already calling for Wicky when we went to the bottom of the 9th. I would not complain if Wicky came in to start the 9th and blew it.

If that had happened it would have still sucked, but that’s when you would say “okay, these kind of games will happen once in a while.” But we essentially went down by straying from our formula for success. Usually Bobby waits til October to pull such nonsense, but he’s getting warmed up early this year.

By eric the elder

April 26, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

We have blamed last night’s loss on Cox, the offense, and the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra, but there is one person we seem not to want to touch: Tim Hudson.

Seeing two hits on pitches up in the zone, McDowell went out for a visit with Hudson, presumably to ask him whether he felt he could finish off the game. Hudson, more than anyone else, had to know he was losing it, but he talked McDowell into staying in. Yes, I know, pride, competitive spirit, et al, but in spite of his brilliant performance through 8, I do think Hudson shares some of the blame.

This is exactly why many managers refuse to negotiate these things with their pitchers. They make a decision and announce it as they leave the dugout. Bobby, the players’ manager, isn’t that way, and this time it bit him.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Coulda, shoulda, woulda…. Same stuff, with the experts here turning hindsight into foresight.

Bobby sent Huddy out in the 9th for two reasons - he was mowing the Fish down, and showed no signs of tiring in the 8th. Second, the bullpen is worn out - we have used them WAY too much in the past few games. Maybe Payne, KC or N8, who love to throw stats around here, can verify this. Any major league manager would have done what Bobby did - stay with the hot hand and rest your bully if you can. And don’t give me that “we’ve got a day off tomorrow” crap. The decision to keep the pill in Huddy’s hand for the 9th was absolutely correct.

Was Huddy, in retrospect, gassed in the 9th? I don’t think so. The only bad pitch he made was the last one to Boone - left the ball up in the zone and was probably lucky that it only turned out to be a single, and not something more.

Should Huddy have come out after the 2nd hit? Probably, but, he’s gotten himself out of worse jams, he had a 3 run lead and had been fooling the Fish all night - his sinker was awesome last night.

Should the reliever brought in have been Wickman? Absolutely. If he gets a ground ball (that doesn’t have eyes or legs), the Fish score one, we’ve got two outs, a man on third and a right handed hitter coming up, with some power, but who is hitting .220. Could have walked him to get to the singles hitter, etc etc. Instead, he made a mistake - left a fastball out over the fat part of the plate to a known first ball hitter and they score two. Stuff happens.

Infield is drawn in for a guy who doesn’t hit for average, but runs like a cheetah - given what Endy Chavez did to the Rox the other night, drawing Chipper in at the corner was the right move. He gets jammed with a perfect pitch, fists one into the only spot in the infield where it would fall, and we’re tied up. Still have a chance for the double play ball, but Beefy Bob throws a skidder, and it gets away.

That’s baseball, people. Its one game out of 162. Nobody likes any loss. That one definitely hurt… a great pitching performance goes for naught.

Get over it, and get a life - they’ll be back tomorrow, and no doubt, even if we win, there will still be considerable carping, criticism and beechin’ from the armchair experts.

By beachcomber

April 26, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Reading the blog I see a lot of valid arguments of how we could have NOT lost that game last night, but give some credit to the Marlins as well, they battled back. To me, the key play in the game was that great catch the kid in CF made robbing Chipper and costing us at least one run maybe more. Heck of a catch!

By Rodger

April 26, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Second guessing? I saw a lot of posts from people when Huddy came out for the ninth.

Man, that hurts. Went to put the kids in bed with the game firmly in hand, Hudson just f’n NASTY. Come back, Wicky’s got the bases loaded, and BOOM. When a guy has been as dominant as Hudson was, you’ve got to get the win. Bad, bad, bad…

What is funny is all the people who yesterday when everyone was defending Cox from the Buster Heymen (that’s for you, Grinch) article as “the greatest manager ever” now complaining that they are not surprised by bonehead moves. Huh? Talk about can’t have it both ways…

By Savannah Guy

April 26, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

Chalk up another coaching blunder for Cox Ok, that was the second time the same mistake has been made in as many weeks. First it was Smoltz in the 8th inning recently…fast forward to last night and Hudson in the 9th. Two great pitchers going 7-8 innings and putting on a clinic. Then, for reasons that escape me, Cox let’s them go back out in the 8th and 9th respectively…when everyone watching the game knew that they were done. Oh, the heart was there in both pitchers but the tank was near empty in both cases. Last year I would have understood letting them keep the ball, but this year we actually have a bullpen. Wasn’t Cox quoted saying that “he wanted to let Huddy get a complete game”? how about a freakin WIN.

Ok, I’m stating the obvious here. Here’s hoping Cox will figure this out…or someone will have the backbone to tell him… and stop letting the pitchers heart rule his managing decisions.

By Grahamdawg

April 26, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Bobby is a great manager, but last night’s loss is on him. With our bullpen, Huddy should not of started the 9th.He definatley should of been taken out after two runners were put on. Even though Wick is our closer, he is not the type of power reliever we needed in the bases loaded,no outs situation. Soriano should of gotten the call at the time. You are the man Bobby, but you made very questionable decisions last night.

By Sir Stealth

April 26, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Coach’s point about the Padres game was dead on. It’ll probably happen to the Braves that way this year too and everyone will still come on and vent and b***. I’m not over the loss either, but I sure am glad the man’s our manager for tomorrow night’s game. The man’s accomplishments speak for themselves.

By Savannah Guy

April 26, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

Oh, DOB…almost forgot Frenchy in the mix. Yep, he’s a different hitter this year for sure. Fun to watch…

Carroll, take heart. You will always be “corrected” by experts like Lew and Scalp ‘em Braves, no matter what your opinion, point or vent might be. They love competing on this blog and I guess they have a lot of thier egos tied up in being the “resident experts” on this blog. Funny yet sad.

By Carroll

April 26, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em: If Bobby was worried about a tired pen, then why did he bring in Wicky the night before with a 7-run lead?! And he’s done the same with Soriano on numerous occasions already as well.

And Keep telling yourselves that it’s just one game! It can’t possibly matter, right? After all it was just “one game” when Sid slid. It was just one game back in 1993 when Ron Gant hit an improbable ninth inning, come from behind homer against the Reds—and we ended up winning the division by one game that year. Hell, it was only one pitch that Wohlers gave up to Leyritz—but it changed the dynamic of the entire WS in 1996. Last year in June, it was just one loss….then another….then another….then another….well, eventually a series of “just one loss” games ended our season practically before it even got started good.

So if it makes you feel better to keep telling yourself that then be my guest. But I have way too much invested in this team in terms of money I spend to support them, time I spend to watch them, and emotional ties to the players and team to just say “oh well” when we give games away like that. If that makes me a loser, then so be it. But I will always call it like I see it.

By h_charles

April 26, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Svannah Boy: You are right, but nothing will change. Cox has always been overly loyal to his guys, and he will always give his studs enough rope to hang themselves. Huddy should have been allowed to start the 9th. His pitch count was low, our bullpen needed rest, and he was unhittable. He even should have been allowed to stay in after the 1st hit.
It was the second single, on a ball up in the zone, that should have chased him. At that point the tying run was at the plate, and it was clear to everyone but Cox that he was done.
Cox, however, just couldn’t bear the thought of yanking him yet — maybe he could coax a double play. Once again, loyalty costs us. Another hard hit ball, and then Wicky is put in an impossible situation. Wick is a great closer, but shut-down guy he is not. He will give up hits, he will not K the side, and he was the wrong guy for that situation. That called for Soriano, who could have put an end to the inning without a ball in play. Once Wicky gave up the double, game was over. Just a matter of how.

By NO CHOP ZONE

April 26, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

I was preparing for the abuse I would take because of the beating Pelfrey took yesterday when to my surpise I see the braves are back to blowing saves. I also see the braves can’t score unless they hit homeruns. I predict this will be their demise. So we’re still in first…..Nice.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

it was one game that made the difference b/w the Braves or the Giants winning the pennant in 2003, with both having outstanding teams.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

goofed twice with that last one. it was 1993 and not 2003 and it was the NL West division title and not the pennant.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Lew - your 9:04 post was dead on.

Savannah Guy:

Carroll, take heart. You will always be “corrected” by experts like Lew and Scalp ‘em Braves, no matter what your opinion, point or vent might be. They love competing on this blog and I guess they have a lot of thier egos tied up in being the “resident experts” on this blog. Funny yet sad.

I’m not going to defend Lew here - he does a pretty damned good job defending himself. As for calling me an “expert” and one who “competes” on this blog, you obviously haven’t been around for very long. Basically, I state my point(s)/observations and go on about my business. If somebody has a differing view, that’s fine. Rest assured I am not nearly as antagonistic as those you seek to defend here. But, you’ve got the right to say what you said. I just happen to disagree that all of the blame for the loss rests with Bobby. He didn’t throw a pitch, swing a bat, field a ball, etc. He went with conventional baseball theory and wisdom, and THE TEAM lost the game.

By dadgum

April 26, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

When Cormier is back he will enter as teh 4th starter pushing Davies to the 5th spot. Redman will be the bull pen guy and get inserted if future injuries occur. Dedman is dreadful right now and a little bull pen work wouldn’t hurt him or the Braves. Of course Cox will stay with him as he loses two more getting shelled.

To whoever blogged about Cox keeping Huddy in for the ninth because the bullpen was overworked well that ain’t so. We haven’t barely played 20 games and we have FOUR go to guys in teh pen. If the bullpen is overworked now, ouch, we are in trouble especially if we can’t depend on anyone to get 3 outs after Huddy had pitched a gem for 8 innings. Bobby said all the balls were grounders that were hit where we weren’t. Guess what that happens in baseball so he is rationalizing the loss instead of facing up to a managerial gaff. Hey managers make errors too. They lose games just like players with their decisions. No matter how you slice this one Cox lost it pure and simple. But I give him a kitchen pass on this one.

When you pay millions for guys to come out of the pen let’s hope that the next time we have a save situation in the 9th and your starter has about 100 or so pitches under his belt and the opposition is seeing him for their 4th at bat we change pitchers that can throw serious gas. Play the percentages Bobby. If you lose then lose making the right decisions. We can live with that.

By Jersey Gil

April 26, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

I don’t feel bad with ours loss last night, because the best closer in the NL blown the save to(Trevor Hoffman)he also blown a good performance of Peavy last night, so that is Baseball fulks. I agree we have to do some adjustment later in the season if the situation in left field continuos, and also our 5th starter, but the Braves has the tools in the minor, look what happen to the Yankee, and they not have anybody in the minor to resolve there situation. Come down guys we be ok.

By KneeJerk

April 26, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Hudson did in the 9th what he’s supposed to do: induce ground balls with his sinker. It just so happens that the ground balls found holes. Why blame Cox? If he takes Huddy out after 8 and Wickman blows it, you blame Cox. It’s a 162 game season….relax!

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Maybe if the vicious ‘huddy’ hadn’t throw each of those 3 batters a batting practice pitch, right down the middle of the plate, enabling them to load the bases, then Bobby Cox wouldn’t have lost the game for the Braves…which by the break, will be battling for 3rd. or 4th. place in the division…

By Robert

April 26, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

“He didn’t throw a pitch, swing a bat, field a ball, etc. He went with conventional baseball theory and wisdom, and THE TEAM lost the game.”

So conventional baseball wisdom holds that you let a tired starter get the winning run to the plate before you remove him from the game?

But of course, since the only way any runs could score would be off a home run (Wait, that’s only true for the Braves, not their opposition)

You know, there are plenty of ways that one could make a case that Cox is an adequate manager. I would disagree, but that doesnt mean the arguement cant be made in a reasonable manner. But to say that Cox didnt blow that game last night is either total denial or total ignorance.

Several players threw pitches, or allowed a passed ball, or didnt handle an opportunity well (we could’ve easily been up 5 or 6 runs going into the 9th) - but for most of those I’d be willing to give the guys the benfit of the doubt arguing that they must’ve been in shock over the display of utter managerial ineptitude that they were bearing witness to.

Wickman was a man - he took the attitude all I needed was three outs before three runs. McCann was a man - he said he has to get that ball.

Can Cox be a man? How about standing up and announcing what the world knows. Stand up and admit you lost the game Bobby. Bray it out for the world to hear.

Flat out the dumbest human being to ever step onto a baseball field

By KneeJerk

April 26, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Why the sarcastic “vicious” comment. He was vicious last night. Y’all act as if he gave up line drives in the 9th. They were seeing eye singles. Our “pitch to contact” closer struck out Willingham and gave up a blooper to Amezega. McCann gave up a passed ball. How often will that happen? The breaks didn’t go our way last night. There will be games like this in a 162 game season.

By geauxbraves2000

April 26, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

The good news last night is the Braves didn’t lose any ground. It appears it’s going to be quite a race this year.

Preferably I’d like to see the Braves up about 15 games come the all star break, but OTOH, a good race should keep the players focused once the postseason hits.

Geaux Braves!!

Geaux Braves!!

By KneeJerk

April 26, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

If one of those ground ball singles would’ve been hit at the ss for a 6-4-3, the armchair managers are still in hiding. If you want to manage, fantasy baseball at YAHOO.com is free

By KneeJerk

April 26, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Robert, I take it that you won’t be giving Cox’s introduction at his HOF induction in 2013 or 2014.

By Bubba

April 26, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Last nights lost is going to sting only untile we win again. That is why the next game is big fo the braves. If were able win then all is fine, but if we lose it in the late innings then last year isnt that far away!

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Robert might not do the HOF induction speech but he would sure as hell be great at a Comedy Central roast of Bobby Cox.

By knowitall

April 26, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Some of you people are just ridiculous. Last week it was “Bobby’s overusing the bullpen”. “Why can’t starters earn their money & pitch complete games”. Now Bobby’s an idiot for leaving in a pitcher who showed no signs of tiring. Even once the baserunners got on, Hudson is a ground ball pitcher and he he was racking up the strikeouts last night. There was no reason to think that he couldn’t get out of it. It’s not like they were hitting doubles off the wall. That’s baseball, sometimes you have tough losses. Now we get to see the true character of the team.

By ChampDawg

April 26, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Boobie Cox is an idiot.

This is a team sport. He let Hudson try to finish the game in order to get the shutout. Fine. That’s commendable. But to not at least have someone warming up in the pen is ridiculous.

Every game won in April is a game you don’t have to win in September when everyone is getting worn out. Losing 2 of 3 to the Fish, now if you don’t sweep at Colorado, you’re going to be 2-3 games out of 1st easily.

Stupid Cox.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Will people stop being so simpleminded? It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Cox for overusing the pen last week and then not using the pen enough last night. The utilization of the pen is all determined on a case by case basis. He was overusing them last week when such use was not warranted and then he failed to get them out there quick enough last night. Stop that silly argument. Leave arguments like that to morons like Lew.

By Boredover

April 26, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Last nights game was not Hudson or Bobby’s fault. Where is Andrew’s bat? I saw him strike out over and over with runners in scoring position.

By JasonInMaine

April 26, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Ok, I am still not over last night’s loss, and Hudson should be 4-0 with a 0.41 ERA, but oh well.

Interesting [article] (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070426/SPORTS0104/704260305/1129) from The Detroit News.

By John McGraw

April 26, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Braves Question here:

All media outlets reportd that Cox’s ejection from the Sunday Met’s game was the 127th of his carreer.

Earlier they reported that the one in Washington, on Monday, was the 125th of his career.

My question is: where was the 126? I didn’t see those games but saw no mention of an ejection during the week. A little help here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Why was Hudson laughing last night in the ninth on the bench when those first two runs scored? That really ticked me off. He was picking his nose under his towel and giggling like a little girl with the guy sitting next to him. That did not sit well with me, mister. Not at all. This team has no fire. A bunch of choir boy white boys and jesus freaks. Give me someone with a little spit and fire. Maybe Huddie can teach Donk a Donk Butt that trick of picking his nose under a towel. I’m tired of the camera cutting to Cox and Skip pretending that we are not all watching Donk a Donk Butt pick his nose. And why is Hudson so darn bald? Maybe that is why he wilts in games and his performance has dropped off over the last few years. He is aging prematurely. Early 30s in age but early 50s in his body as evidenced by his premature baldness. Maybe he needs to ask baldie Smoltz what kind of “vitamins” he uses to avoid the effects of premature aging.

By JasonInMaine

April 26, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Sorry, here is the article

By Lew

April 26, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Carroll-You can spin this any way you want, but there is always someone (usually you or Robert), who are going to comment negatively no matter the situation-and usually blame BC. It’s only 20 something games into the season and BC has been criticized for staying too long with starters and overusing his bullpen. It doesn’t matter which way he goes, there is always someone to second guess him no matter what his decision may be. If you want the real reason for the loss last night, look at the fact that the hitters didn’t take that pitcher to the ceaners when they had the chance. Three HR’s and several shots to the warning track in the first two innings and we score three lousy runs. Instead of people b!tching and moaning about Langerhans, try wondering when Andruw is going to get his behind in gear. I wouldn’t have put Hudson in to start the ninth, either, but three soft ground balls just out of the reach of an infielder, a bloop that barely made it to the outfield and a passed ball should not drive everyone to the rampant negativity this game induced. Calm down. Over analysis is rampant on the blog and with an off day, all anyone will do is over dissect this loss. Time to get over it.

By Lew

April 26, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

IMFO-If you had a clue, the fact that you call me a moron might have some weight behind it. Considering the fact that you’re a blustering idiot won’t harsh my mellow in the least. Get over yourself-and last night’s game while your at it.

By Lew

April 26, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Savannah Guy-I’m a resident expert because I counsel a bit of patience. If you haven’t noticed, this blog tends to take any minor gametime occurr=ence and turns it into an act of war. The Braves blew their second save of the year last night. Okay, we should have won the game-would have been nice. I didn’t agree with leaving Hudson in in the ninth, either, but it doesn’t matter which direction BC takes, someone is going to come in post decision and second guess him. It happens every single game. Just reading posts on a regular basis should make this apparent to anyone wo understands Englis. How does this make me an expert and worthy of yours, or any one else’s ridicule? It’s a long season and we’re barely 1/8th into it. Someone’s going to stroke out if they’re not careful. We didn’t even lose ground. The season didn’t end.

By ncscoots

April 26, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

nathan, BTW, you know I was only breakin’ on you a little last night, with no offense meant, right? Just wanted to make sure you didn’t take that the wrong way, what with all the bile dripping off the blog at the time :-)

By Robert

April 26, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

“It’s only 20 something games into the season and BC has “

almost singlehandedly been responsible for losing 2 of them

By geauxbraves2000

April 26, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Baseball “is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get”.

Geaux Braves!!

By Baron

April 26, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

That was hard to watch last night. Oh well, long slog, yadda yadda yadda.

Per yesterday’s comments over the Heyman column on best managers, the fellas at FJM, who do nothing but rip on idiotic “journalists” in a most amusing fashion, saw the article and couldn’t resist pointing out some of it’s obvious flaws:

firejoemorgan.com

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Robert,

Not going to get into it with you about Cox, but baseball’s a team game. Yes, Cox deserves to be second-guessed. But what about Hudson giving up those hard hits in the 9th? What about Wickman? What about the offense scoring only 3 runs?

Yes, Hudson pitched a great game and it looked like three runs would be enough. But if we are going to criticize Cox for this loss (which is fair), I think the whole team deserves some blame.

Baseball is a team game and it is impossible for one manager, coach or player to be single-handedly responsible for a win or a loss.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Lew, the voice of reason, counseling patience, calling others blowhards. LMFAO! I’m pretty sure that the Pot thought he had no blackness in common with the Kettle either. Lew, the Blog Bully who picks every blog fight, never walks away from a fight, and instigates the ones he is not involved in. Turn the other cheek, Lew, and ponder What Would Jesus Do?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Bullpen use over the past 5 games (not including last night). 17 innings - average 3.4 innings per game. Too much. Not as bad as what Torre has done with his pen this year, but if you got a guy grooving like Huddy was last night, I have no problem with letting him finish the game. Any of you clamoring for Soriano in the 9th instead of Wickman, with the bases loaded… Yes, he had pitched an inning Tuesday, with 2 K’s. But, remember Friday against the Muts? Hudson - 8 innings, 5 hits, no runs. Soriano - 1 inning, 2 hits, 1 walk, 0 K’s, 3 runs.

Robert: You said Flat out the dumbest human being to ever step onto a baseball field.

Here are the facts. Bobby has won 2148 games, 5th all time. Winning percentage is 56%. There is no modern era manager in the top ten with a higher winning percentage - not LaRussa (53%), not Torre (53%), not Sparky (who Bobby will pass with another 10 wins). Dumba$$es and donkeys don’t achieve these kind of numbers.

By doug

April 26, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

I also saw him mouth the ‘f’ word in the dugout quite clearly. He was upset when he came out. Maybe when he picked his nose, it tickled. Sometimes it does because you pull out a nosehair or something. Let it go.

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

EVERYONE:

Take a look at the division’s runs scored runs against. Pretty alarming.

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em Braves,

Don’t you know it doesn’t matter how many games you’ve won or post-seasons you’ve led a team to or how many peers and player think you are great. All that matters is how many World Series you didn’t win. Oh, yeah, and don’t you know getting to the post-season and losing is worse than not making it.

By Lee

April 26, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

I am certainly not going to dwell on this loss and let it ruin the remainder of the season for me.

Florida battled back and also had some clutch defensive plays. The Braves blew some scoring opportunities also. There are many factors that decided the fate of this game besides Cox alone.

Odds are the Braves will win a few games like this also before the season is done.

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

Actually, the Braves are pretty much where they should be according to RS and RA. The Mets have underperformed their RS and RA but not by all that much. With all due respect I don’t see anything all that alarming for us Braves fans about the RS and RA of all the teams in the East.

By ChucktownBrave

April 26, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Cox, if you’re listening. Shelf the loyalty to your players and try to win EVERY series. Practice what you preach. Wickman in the ninth is a no-brainer. It’s worked every time this year. It’s not rocket science. STOP over thinking it.

Sincerely, Tim Hudson.

By Carroll

April 26, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em, Lew, etc: do you not realize that you’re making our point for us by pointing out those stats about the “overused” pen? He seems to have NO problem using them in situations where we could probably get by without them or at least use the lesser quality guys (like Villy, Yates, etc). A good example of that is two night ago when he used Wicky with a 7-run lead. OR I think it was about a week ago he used Sorio in a game (against Washington maybe) when we had a huge lead, then the very next night was an extremely close game—against the Cubs I think—and we couldn’t use Sorio b/c he had been wasted the night before. But yet he can’t bring himself to use those guys in a key, close game against a division rival? Poppycock!

As Robert said before quite eloquently, you can make solid arguments for his overall body of work, but when it comes to managing pitchers, BC is borderline retarded. The only other explanaiton I can think of for lat night’s clownery is that he wanted to repay the favor to Freddi for walking Langerfans the night before.

And PLEASE spare me this mindless bullsht about Bobby not throwing a pitch, blah blah blah…that is the most childish, brainless argument I’ve ever heard. If that had any validity then NO manager would be fired…EVER…and there would be no crime for accessory to murder, or vicarious liability in civil law. You really just make yourself sound stupid when you pull that crap.

By eric the elder

April 26, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

I wonder how many, if any except me, feel a little left out of this blog? Robert puts up his 5,834th post on what a donkey Cox is, and he gets at least three responses every time. There are many other examples of a few people corresponding with a few others.

This morning I raised the question of McDowell’s visit to the mound after Hudson had given up the second hit on a high pitch, and I hoped to elicit a comment or two about what that implied about our managerial style and about Hudson’s role in the decision making. Not a word of response, which is fine because everyone is entitled to do or not do whatever they want. At least it was helpful to learn that Hudson picked his nose in the dugout.

By porksword

April 26, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

That’s Cox’s 3rd blown game this season. Twice w/ Smoltz staying in too long and now Hudson.

HEY COX. YOU WENT OUT A GOT A BULLPEN NOW USE THE GOTDAMN THING.

By Carroll

April 26, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Eric: I indirectly alluded to your post. I think it’s natural for a player or fans to want to see a guy like Huddy go out there and go for his complete-game shutout. But it is Bobby’s job to stay above the fray….to take notice of things like what you pointed out, and have the nuts to make a move.

By N8

April 26, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Krath and Coach.

The similarity that you guys are both leaving out when talking about Peavy and Hudson last night, is that they were both striking out a lot of hitters. Hudson appears to have had the “easier” night (based on pitch count/inning), where Peavy had a pretty hight pitch count for what inning he was in. Face it. When you’ve struck out 16 batters That’s a minimum of 48 pitches just for those 16 batters, and I’m gonna assume that not all of the K’s were on 3 pitches.

Peavy was pulled because he more than likely was getting tired. Like you guys said, damned if you do, damned if you don’t with Peavy. If he stays out and gets beat, the naysayers will be crying that he should’ve been pulled. But he was obviously tired or they wouldn’t have pulled him.

In the case of Hudson. I can see where if Bobby had somebody up in the pen to start the 9th and Huddy cruises through the 9th inning, people may have complained that it was a waste to warm somebody up.

But COME ON, 3-0 lead, at least have them soft tossing down there just in case. Then when the first guy gets on you have somebody start actually warming up. GET OFF YOUR BUTT and make a visit to the mound. Hell, leave him in at that point.

But it’s absolutely unexcusable to have to have Wickman come into THAT situation when 10 minutes before that, he was probably assuming he had the night off.

Finally saw the highlight, and it’s not like Hudson got hammered in the 9th. But face it. His pitches need to stay down, or what happened last year, will happen a lot. After seeing him leave those pitches up to the first 2 batters, he should’ve never been in there to face the 3rd guy.

It’s over and done with, and after I hit post, I’m not going to comment on it again.

I realize that 3-0 isn’t like 1-0 and this wasn’t the world series, but Hudson was no more “on” than Glavine was in game 6 of the 95 world series, yet Bobby had no problem having Wohlers “getting ready” in the 8th inning to come in in the 9th.

He should’ve at least been prepared to pull Hudson BEFORE he got into that jam.

scoots

Totally DIDN’T take offense to your post.

All in good fun my man.

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

By looking at those runs scored and Runs against, you can see that the Phillies should have a much better record.

By Coach

April 26, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

I saw one name in the box score with a loss next to it and was Wickman. Cox didn’t lose the game , neither did Hudson.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

You completely miss the point with your 12:51 post. I am not defending Bobby’s post season performance. We all would like to have more than one WS title. My post was in response to those who lay the blame on last night’s loss squarely at Bobby’s feet, and the others who call him an idiot, an incompetent, a dumba$$, the worst manager ever, etc.

Bobby is stubborn, no doubt, and that has cost us some games. Show me another manager who isn’t set in his ways, and hasn’t lost games because of that. His continued insistence on platooning at first is driving me crazy. I think Thorman should be in there every day until he proves he doesn’t belong. Conversely, I have been a supporter of giving Langerhans time to come around offensively, in hopes of salvaging him for his considerable defensive skills. No more - he has proven that he cannot hit, and that flashes of offensive potential he has shown in the past are the exception, and not what we should come to expect from him. Outside of his being a late inning defensive replacement, he is useless. The only other possibility for him would be to bring in a “hitting guru” to work with him intensively, get into his head, and his swing, and work things out. I’m not sure that would work either, but it be better than what we’re dealing with now.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Well, Mike Vick can’t avoid the trouble, huh? His family is neglecting animals now on his property. Somewhere, Rich McKay and Arthur Blank are sitting in their mansions saying Oh, the hits just keep coming.

By Carroll

April 26, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

N8: good points. Also, as to the comments that you’re “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. I disagree. I think you’d be hard to pressed to find anyone who would complain about the manager bringing in his closer to start the bottom of the 9th of a close game. The one exception might be if the starter was going for a perfect game. But otherwise, you just can’t go wrong using your closer in that situation….especially one who has been going as well as Wicky.

By Fred Secunda

April 26, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

I’ve been the biggest proponent of replacing Langerhans with Brandon Jones, but I can see why it is not that simple. First of all, I think Langerhans has a chance of getting through waivers, because in this day and age there’s no such thing as players like Rafael Belliard who are simply on a roster for their defensive ablity. Some team may claim him on waivers with the belief that all he needs is a change of scenery to regain his stroke, but a team will not claim him for his defensive prowess alone, at least not to play major league ball anyway.

The reason why the Braves aren’t cutting Langerhans and promoting Jones right now is they’ve probably learned a lot from the Joey Devine situation. If Jones falls flat on his face, his confidence could be shot and he may never be the same player again. Also, if you promote Jones right now, you’re pretty much committing to the guy as the left handed platoon for the rest of the season. That means he will likely take his lumps.

What I think will happen, is that the Braves will continue to go with the platoon they’ve got for the next month, and if things haven’t changed, you’ll see a leap to the bigs from Jones ala Kelly Johnson two years ago. After that, only time will tell.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Carroll:

Glad you know so much. Nothing like a humble genius (eye roll). I’m sure you’re on the short list to replace Bobby as manager when he retires. Oh, wait, he isn’t going to retire - EVER So get used to it.

If your argument is valid, then tell me another manager who has done a better job, over the long haul, of managing his pitchers. I’m not going to lower myself to insults. I’ll be glad to respectfully debate, agree, disagree on any issue. I’m not pulling any crap. I’m stating my opinion. You’re stating your opinion. That’s all. If you don’t agree, that’s fine. No reason to engage in name calling, unless you want to open your mouth and remove all doubt as to what you are. The choice is yours.

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Greetings from Denver. Forgot how brutal it is flying from places like Fort Lauderdale and not having direct flights (we get spoiled in Atlanta, as far as that’s concerned). Damn, I feel like I’ve been flying all day, like I flew to Hawaii or something….

Anyway, it’s about 58 and sunny here. Very nice. Mountains are absolutely covered in snow, can see them from my room.

Alright, gotta write a Braves story or notebook, something. And a preview box.

How ‘bout the Rockies going seven games without a homer until yesterday? Amazing how that franchise has changed. Blake Street Bombers seem like a lifetime ago. Dante Bichette, Big Cat, Vinny.

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em Braves,

Guess you didn’t detect the sarcasm.

I wouldn’t argue anything other than Bobby Cox is one of the best managers in history and should be in the Hall of Fame as soon as he’s able to be in there.

I totally agree with you. See my post about baseball being a team game. 3-0 in the 9th is a fairly comfortable lead but isn’t a huge lead, so we could place a little blame on the offense. We could blame Hudson or Wickman for giving up those hits in the 9th with no outs.

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Porksword, you know _ admit it _ that if Cox had gone to the ‘pen right away in the ninth, to start the inning, and they’d blown that lead, you’d have been first in line saying how Hudson should have been given a chance to close them out, since he was so dominant and had thrown relatively few pitches. Come on, you know that’s the truth.

You should have seen the comments from Florida players who were THRILLED when they took Hudson out of the game. He’d been some dominant, they didn’t care who they brought in, they knew it would be an easier matchup than facing Hudson. That’s what three of them said after the game….

By the way, our favorite lady, the brash gymnastics coach, had another great quote today. I’ll give it to you later. Consider that a tease.

Not as good as the leotard quote _ is any as good as that? _ but good nonetheless.

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

According to RS and RA, the Phillies should be about 2 games better, the Braves should be about a game worse and the Mets should be 2 games better. No one is really under or over performing their run differential to the extreme so far.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

I feel another 3-20 stretch headed our way. WATCH OUT!

By Mike S

April 26, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

I fully agree with Cox leaving Hudson in the 9th inning. Basic signs of fatigue is leaving the ball up and being hit hard. Hudson hit his spots and they hit ground balls that found holes, isn’t that usually the goal. He can’t strike everyone out. Also, I hope this doesn’t strike fear in the manager when leaving a pitcher in going into the 9th. Expect the complete games to be minimal this year now. (Although I believe Cox won’t let this effect his thought process.)

By glove51

April 26, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

DOB: don’t forget to check out the Samba Room in downtown Denver — Larimer Square.

If you like Irish pubs, go to Fado, right next to the ballpark.

By Mike S

April 26, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, I know that the closer role is Wickman’s and that’s the way it should be but I can’t help to think that last night’s situation was best fit for Gonzalez. We needed a strike out and a ground ball. Gonzalez thrives on intense situations. Lack of control could be your answer to me.

By Robert

April 26, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

“I saw one name in the box score with a loss next to it and was Wickman.”

I hereby take back every comment I have ever made that said anything about Bobby Cox being the dumbest human being on the planet

Because, Coach, you, my “friend”, absolutely take the cake.

Wickman lost the game? The guy is brought in with bases loaded, noone out, rushed into the game at that (because the porksword (what a great descriptor) that manages the team didnt have a thought rattle thru his empty skull until that point) - and the blame all goes to Wickman.

Not to the guy who decides when where and how to use Wickman. He had nothing to do with it, because after all, he didnt throw a single pitch, or swing a single bat. All he did was pick his nose, bray, and take a big dump on the Braves won-lost record.

And Shaun, if you want Cox in the HOF as soon as he is eligible, he oughta go right now. He IS eligible. All he has to do is buy a ticket at the front door.

By krath

April 26, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

ERIC

I suppose Mcdowell’s visit was something like….”how do you want to pitch to Boone?” “Tim are you gassed?…..can you get this guy?” “Take your time Huddy, Wickman needs a few more pitches in the pen before he is ready.” I suppose it could have been anything along those lines. Hudson wasn’t coming out when Mcdowell visited unless he said something like “Roger…. I can’t feel my arm.” Bobby comes out when a change is gonna take place.

Which brings up another point. Does Cox seek any input from his catcher on pitching changes? Lots of managers past and present actually ask the catcher if the guy still has it. I’m not sure Bobby does that. When he visits the mound his mind is already made up or he doesn’t visit. If he did seek the catchers input, it opens up Pandora’s box #2. Does McCann have the stones to come out and say right in the face of a Smoltz or Hudson, “Bobby….. he’s done.”? With his limited big league experience (although quite a fine resume so far) is McCann capable of knowing if the pitcher is done? Let me rephrase that…. does he have the cred with management to make that call?

I have always felt that the catcher who is calling the game probably knows before anyone when a pitcher is done. If I were a manager, I would be of the “consult the catcher” school. Just because Bobby doesn’t walk out except to change pitchers doesn’t mean that he doesn’t consult the backstop. Who knows, maybe there is a sign the catcher gives to the dugout when he thinks the pitcher is losing it. That wouldn’t be something that I would see at home.

I do like the Lou Pinella approach. He goes out to the mound lots of times on his own instead of sending the pitching coach. I think that could only help give the manager more info to help make the decision “does he still have it or is he done?”

Just my 2 cents.

By doug

April 26, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Eric, here I’ll bite. I think when McDowell went out there, he told him we need you to get one more out (batter) before Wicky is ready. I don’t think he was asking him how much longer he can go.

By Baby James

April 26, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

DOB What was Bobby doing letting Hudson face three guys with the big dog in the pen how came keep the boys in ny back with given it away

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun: Cool beans. I did miss the sarcasm. Guess my hackles are up today.

By Summerteeth

April 26, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

For you DOB…Son Volt on Letterman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7tHcQRNoYE

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Robert,

Enough, already. The blame goes to the Braves. All of us probably had coaches who said it best: “We win as a team, we lose as a team.” Baseball’s a team game. There’s plenty of blame to go around for losses and plenty of credit to go around for wins.

By AZBravoFan

April 26, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Good lord everybody, I can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Guess that’s what happens when there’s an off day. Yes, it was a very unfortunate, heartbreaking loss. As good as the bullpen is, they weren’t going to have a 1.000 save percentage this year. Even the venerable Smoltzie gakked up a few during his tenure. This won’t be the last time. And it will certainly be evened out by a few stunning Braves come from behind walk-offs. So everybody chill. The important thing is THIS YEAR, 9 times out of 10 the Braves win that game. LAST YEAR, maybe 6 times out of 10 they win that game. And if Mac had caught that ball, I wouldn’t have put it past Wicky to worm out of the inning with a tie score. And THEN the pen would have had the upper hand in extras. It’s not like he gave up a walk-off granny. And the other important thing is you know you can send Wickman back out there tomorrow and not have to worry about his confidence.

By Lee

April 26, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

I wish there was a game tonight. I am afraid the discussion about last night’s game will carry over tomorrow also. Hopefully the upcoming series with the Rockies get some of these bats going for the Braves. If they can’t get it going in Coors Field you have to wonder what is it going to take for some of these hitters.

By Fred from CT

April 26, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

got this off of SI truth and rumors. Could be intersting maybe for a granderson or robertson just throwing it out?

Do Tigers covet Braves’ prospect? Posted: Thursday April 26, 2007 10:02AM ET Atlanta is sitting pretty on the trade front. The Braves have the best catching prospect in baseball in Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who is having a monster start at Double-A Mississippi. The Tigers have been trying since at least last year to trade for a legitimate catching prospect.

Detroit News

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

And Shaun, if you want Cox in the HOF as soon as he is eligible, he oughta go right now. He IS eligible. All he has to do is buy a ticket at the front door.

Robert - Why should Bobby pay to get into the HOF? His ticket is already stamped, and he’ll have lifetime free admission. The only reason he is staying on as manager is he wants to torment you. At least you will admit that he is succeeding in that regard.

By MC

April 26, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien’s claim that Jeff Francoeur is playing on a “new level” is not only incorrect it’s laughable to the point of journalist negligence.

So enough with the snide remarks, let’s get to O’Brien’s main presumption(s):

1. Francoeur has made some sort of substantial performance breakthrough.
2. This substantial breakthrough will enable him to post all-star caliber statistics.

While both of these presumptions may be the case, there is certainly no real statistical evidence to assume that this is the case or even is likely to be the case.

Let’s deconstruct:

1. 20 games is hardly what any baseball statistician with even a remote sense of credibility would consider a large enough sample set to make such an assertion. If performance could actually be relied upon or predicted based on 20 games, the Nationals would be aggressively pursuing a trade for Mike Lowell giving up Ryan Zimmerman in return. David Wright would be playing for AAA New Orleans. The Twins would be seriously considering whether or not to retain reigning AL MVP Justin Morneau or to sign equally as good” Ty Wigginton in the cheap in the off-season. Any of these thoughts would seem insane to any person who possesses even the slightest amount of intellect.

2. This very impressive performance over the first 20 games of the season is NOT EVEN a “new level.” In fact, any body who even casually examines Francoeur’s career game log, will notice that over the course of Francoeur’s (not yet 2 year) career, he has already THREE similarly impressive 20 game stretches before:

   8/14/05-9/5/05: .284 BA / .365 OBP / .905 OPS 4 HR 5/5/06-5/26/06: .295 BA / .319 OBP / .887 OPS 6 HR 8/19/06-9/9/06: .329 BA / .402 OBP / .882 OPS 2 HR

Maybe a more apt title of this article should have been “Francoeur playing at a level that he has played at least once in each half season of pro ball he’s played in… lets see if he keeps it up”

1. O’Brien makes his final projections (.280 BA, .345 OBP, 32 HR, 120 RBI) based upon seemingly nothing. O’Brien uses not one piece of mathematical evidence or even anecdotal theory to support his projections. Where did these numbers even come from? A dream? Did he steal Biff Tannen’s stat book? Next time you want to make a projection, here’s a novel suggestion google: PECOTA.

2. Lastly, in his final projections for Francoeur, the author fails to cite slugging percentage, a figure that is widely considered by most people who actually create and/or understand statistical baseball research, to be a vastly superior metric to batting average.

Again, I am not stating that Francoeur has not made a breakthrough. He certainly may have. Let’s see what happens in the next 20 to 30 games and leave it at may for the time being…

By ncscoots

April 26, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, any way we can get Suzanne Yoculan to start posting on the blog? Maybe a “quote of the day”, huh? BTW, you gotta love this link

And, oh by the way…Suzanne Yoculan.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Lee:

You are right. Last night’s game will continued to be talked about through tomorrow (absent a new blog being posted by DOB today). If only that were the end of it. The argument about Bobby will endure forever.

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Lee- Couldn’t agree with you more.

After this series we have 10 GAMES with the Phillies( playing better ball), Dodgers(Going to win the West), and Padres( our #1 competitor for the Wild Card). Better get it together!!!!!

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Fred from CT,

A lot of teams covet this guy. But Salty should only be used in getting the best of the best pitchers. Do we dare take a chance on Rich Harden?????

By michael

April 26, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox is why the Brave has won only one championship. He should have brought in Wickman beginning the 9th. Hudson was out of gas. Langerhans need to be released and well as Redmond. A lot of young players will not listen. Davies has good stuff but he pitches to high up in the zone. Andruw is going back to his old habits. the lost night last night I put the blame on Bobby.

Michael

By Fred from CT

April 26, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Efrim I agree get the best possible pitcher out there. harden worries me but you would have to consider it. Or get a big time star like a carl crawford.

By krath

April 26, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

N8

I know you said you wouldn’t be posting again on the subject, but I felt I needed to respond because you mentioned my name in making your point. I didn’t feel like I was being attacked and took no offense. I enjoy discussing the game and differing viewpoints. I usually pass by the posts that start out using terms like Moron, Idiot, A*******hole to describe the team, players or other posters. I do enjoy reading the views of others even if they are counter to my beliefs…. as long as they are presented thoughtfully and in a non-insulting manner. For instance, Redman isn’t effective and probably wouldn’t be on many major league rosters but that doesn’t mean that people have to call him names because he isn’t performing. Reitsma was the same way. From all accounts a great guy but just not effective as a pitcher. Doesn’t mean he’s gonna be at the Devil’s right hand when he dies. But I ramble……….

Your point was well taken about the number of pitches thrown by Hudson and Peavy. But I have to say that I don’t entirely agree with that assessment. There used to be a guy who worked for the Braves for a number of years that was a pretty good pitching coach. Pitch count wasn’t a factor to Leo Mazzone. He didn’t do pitch counts. It’s only been in recent years that pitch count has been a factor at all.

If all there was to managing a baseball team was playing it by the book, then the guys managing baseball teams would be the guys who were good at reading comprehension with the ability to regurgitate facts. Physics majors would be good as well. Just use a formula and plug in the numbers. But there is also a problem there. Which book? If I were reading “How To Manage Big League Baseball Volume I” I might be considered behind the times. Back in the 60’s and 70’s, you brought your closer in when the trouble was already brewing. It was nothing for these guys to come in with the fire already raging! That was common. Starting the ninth with your closer, no matter how well the pitcher is going, has only been in vogue for what….the last couple of decades or so? I suppose that school of thought comes from “How To Manage Big League Baseball Volume II”

I concede that pitch count can be a useful tool for some pitchers. But where did the magic 100 pitch limit come from? Did some team have some success using the magic 100 pitch count? And just like in pop music and corporate America, that success was seen as the holy grail of enlightenment so everyone jumped on the bandwagon? Some big burly guy who sweats like a hog and grunts on every pitch has a 100 pitch limit. Some wiry, rubber armed guy who barely breaks a sweat has a 100 pitch limit. Why? because it’s 100 pitches!! Everyone knows if you throw 110 pitches the red blood cells begin eating the white ones. At 115 pitches blurred vision sets in. At 120 pitches, uncontrolled flatulence threatens the entire infield!

Managing baseball is about feel. It’s about knowing your personnel and getting everything you can get from them and knowing how to motivate them. It’s also about knowing when your pitcher is done and when he still has enough in the tank to get the job done. And sometimes, . you make the wrong call. When Grady Little left Pedro in against the Yankees in the playoffs….he was the only guy in America who thought Pedro was still capable of getting out of trouble. I mean that literally. Anyone sitting at home watching that game saw what Little couldn’t. Pedro was getting shelled and Grady wouldn’t take him out. Ineptitude on display with a national audience looking on and shaking their collective head.

What happened with Cox last night is no where in the same league as Little’s managerial meltdown. Hudson was dealing….then it was blip-dunk-slap…..bases loaded. Happened really quick. Not an excuse, but not a referendum for Bobby’s head either.

Even if you do it by the book like Bud Black did last night….it can blow up in your face. Bet they have people on their blog screaming that he’s an idiot for taking Peavy out when he was mowing them down.

By Lew

April 26, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Is MC your evil twin?

By eric the elder

April 26, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Did you catch Simpson’s comments last night about his chat with Pendleton about Andruw? TP said that he had been trying to work with Andruw’s swing, but “Andruw has his own agenda.” All those whiffs last night, one with the bases loaded, might be reason enough to bench this guy until he switches from his own agenda to TP’s. If nothing else, it might help us get used to his not being out there.

By Penny

April 26, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

do you ever do “meet & greet” at the home games??? The next one we will be attending is 5-8

By wg

April 26, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

I am a big Bobby Cox fan but people are right so far this year. This is the 2nd time he has over estimated a starter (remember Smoltz about a week and 1/2 ago). With the emphasis on the bullpen, just bring the late innings guys in an let them do their job. We could have at least 1 if not 2 more wins. Cox sometimes can be too loyal in wanting to get his starters complete game wins. DOB, Langerhans must have options. Why don’t they send him out to get his act together? Right now, he is a liability, but that doesn’t mean he can’t get squared away. He has tremendous potential it should’t be wasted in Atlanta right now.

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

MC,

Nice stuff.

Also, with all due respect to Mr. O’Brien, he ignored what the Braves have done so far in the 8th inning, as I posted yesterday.

And, actually, what they’ve done in the 1st inning of games is probably more impressive than what they’ve done in any other inning so far this season.

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

MC, they came from my head, Mr. Anal Retentive. As in, this is what I THINK, what I PREDICT Francoeur will do. What, do I have to rely on Bill James or some computer program to tell me what to say I think a guy’s going to do? Should I also rely on some sort of math formula to tell me how to call division races, MVP, etc?

Wow. Interesting perspective from you. I couldn’t disagree more, but interesting.

That really set you off, huh? Good. Glad you didn’t like it.

And by the way, what “anecdotal” proof are you waiting for? You’re in the wrong field, my man. Lighten up.

And I’ll stick by my Francoeur projections/predictions. You can consult MIT for yours, I guess.

Take those snide remarks … and a laxative.

By Drew

April 26, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

MC, are you kidding me? How can you possibly criticize PREDICTIONS? What is the difference in PECOTA’s authority and Dave’s? He covers the Braves every day, I think he deserves to be able to make a prediction.

On another note, DOB, have you read the article on Salty at mlbtraderumors.com ? The writer values him really highly, saying he might bring in Carlos Zambrano, Mark Buehrle, Dontrelle Willis, or Nate Robertson and a prospect. Granted, all these guys are soon to be free agents, but do you really see Salty as being this valuable? Also, did you see my post from last night? Any input on those questions?

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Oh, and MC Uptight, I’m basing my projections on Francoeur on what I saw for a month of spring games, what I’ve seen for three weeks of the regular season, and what I got from conversations about him in the past three days with Pendleton, Cox and a couple of players. You can use PECOTA or whatevever else you want to use. I’ll use whatever the hell I feel like using _ namely, the observations I’ve made and others have made who’ve watched him in games since the beginning of April.

And again, if that’s not enough for you, who cares? I certainly don’t. You’re entitled to your opinion, certainly, but offer one on what you believe Francoeur will do. I really don’t care what you think about my own opinion. I don’t have to rely on others’ projections, on some stat geek who hasn’t watched Francoeur play two games in person this season. Can you grasp that? I cover the team. I watch him play every day.

Google PECOTA. Whatever does it for you.

By knowitall

April 26, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Michael, please tell us what indication you got from Hudson in the 8th that he was out of gas? Was it the two strike outs or the ground out to second?

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Well, chrissakes, I thought I was the one being the A-Hole today. Nevermind that. MC just might be the biggest douchebag to ever appear on this blog. Someone have a porn site we can refer that hump to? He needs to relieve some of that sexual tension built up inside of him.

MC, you might want to take a lesson from Shaun. He makes alot of the same arguments you do and he might be smug at times but he always conducts himself like a true gentleman and never attacks anyone personally, especially not the journalist who writes the darn blog. Get a life, you little dweeb. The funny thing is that guy actually spent alot of time sifting through 20 games cycles of game logs. Either that or you are a fellow journalist with a grudge against DOB.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Yoculan yelling at the top of her lungs during the morning run… “I love the smell of talcum powder in the morning”

MC

One thing to take into account with Francouer’s numbers so far. Those two periods you listed during which Frenchy was on a “tear” came near the end of 2005 and beginning of 2006… before pitchers figured out he would swing at anything thrown, whether it was a strike, near strike, or two feet outside. After that, he didn’t see many decent pitches because they didn’t have to throw strikes to get him out.

I notice you didn’t post the number of walks during those two periods. The difference, at least so far this season, is Frenchy’s selectivity and patience at the plate so far. Many, many fewer swings at first pitches. Many more walks. Leading the league in RBI’s. Hitting the ball to center and right side of the field. BA with RISP & 2 outs through the roof. The most telling of all, to me, however,is the fact that he has struck out twice in the last couple of games looking. Not that strike outs are a good thing, mind you. But, that he is fighting the natural instinct he has to swing at any pitch just because he has two strikes. I don’t think anybody here is convinced he has turned things around. He’ll still swing at a bad pitch, or two or three… He’ll still try to yank one out when adrenaline takes over. But, he has certainly taken big steps in the right direction.

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Here’s some projections for you. I would put money on these being more accurate than anything we can guess.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/2007zipsprojectionsatlantabraves/

But I’m sure these projections won’t be perfect matches with what actually happens and many folks on this blog will be ready to discard the whole method. But I would bet that these projections are closer to what ends up happening than what anyone would predict based on less than a month of baseball.

So I say French will finish around .268 AVG/ .303 OBP/ .469 SLG, give or take 20 points one way or the other.

By Mad Mike

April 26, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

I realize this is hypothetical…and the subject is tired. But I just wonder this:

if Smoltz was still closing and was rested, does anyone doubt that he would have pitched the 9th last night?

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Rich Harden?????

What do you think? Do the A’s give him up? I actually would prefer Dan Haren, but I don’t think they would. How is Harden for Salty and Jo Jo Reyes???

By Greg in TN

April 26, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Afternoon denizens…

For me at least, time to move on. There has been lots of venom/frustration/anger/rage/insert your own adjective in Mr. O’Brien’s neighborhood from last night’s breakdown.

Here’s where I think we should go from here:

Braves vs Rockies, tomorrow night, 9:05 PM eastern. TBS has the broadcast.

Go Braves

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Not trying to get into a stats vs. scouts argument with you or anyone because I don’t think it’s an either/or proposition. I certainly love your work and your part in making this blog what you’ve made it. Just want to make that clear before I take sides in the debate.

PECOTA and other such detailed projection systems take into account much more than a month, two months worth of games. They take into account past performance, age, performance of similar players, body type, speed all sorts of things that both scouts and “stat geeks” would look at. With all due respect, I would trust something like PECOTA or ZiPS over what I could come up with, what you could come up with or what pretty much anyone could come up with after watching a player in spring training and over the course of 3 1/2 weeks of regular season play.

Just wanted to make it clear what PECOTA and other such systems are and what they are not. They aren’t some guy’s opinion—they are in-depth projections on what a player will probably do based on all sorts of factors that both scouts and stat people pay attention to and maybe some things they don’t.

By fastasballs

April 26, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

wg,

The only options the Braves have with Langerhans is trade, release or keep on the 25 man roster. He has to clear waivers if the Braves try and send him down to the minors. Unless he developes an “injury” that needs some rehab work, then he can’t be sent down.

I honestly think it’s time for him to be cut loose. Even when he is hitting “well” that is .240-.250, very little pop & a ton of stikeouts.

Even if he makes contact it goes no where. He pounds it into the ground about a foot in front of the plate. He shows NO signs of being able to hit in big league pitching. Yes his defense is good, not great or he would have had that ball two nights ago & probably the Braves would have won that came.

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Mad Mike,

Smoltz would have been in but who pitches the over 31 innings Smoltz has logged this season as a starter? Probably someone worse than Smoltz. Would you rather have Smoltz going for 10 innings this season or 30+?

By Daybed Wagmoe

April 26, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

MC - DOB is right, francoeur has reached a new level of batting. don’t look at numbers; look at his at-bats: he’s taking more pitches, and also fighting more off, making the pitcher work harder to get him out. he looks better at the plate, cutting down on swinging at bad pitches.

example: the april 8th game against the mets. frenchy came up against aaron heilman with mccann on second. heilman got ahead on a 1-2 count, but frenchy looked at a ball in the dirt, then fouled off 2 more pitches before going the other way on a pitch to put it into right field.

not to mention he has 8 walks through 21 games, which is a lot for him. why are you hating on DOB for praising francoeur? just because 20 games isn’t a fair assessment? well, DUH, 20 games isn’t really a fair assessment for lots of players, but that doesn’t mean that frenchy isn’t a better hitter or on a new level.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

This is for MC Loser who wishes he was DOB:

MC’s Act Like They Don’t Know

KRS-ONE

Clap your hands everybody, if you got what it takes Cos I’m KRS and I’m on the mic, and Premier’s on The Breaks

If you don’t know me by now I doubt you’ll ever know me I never won a Grammy, I won’t win a Tony But I’m not the only MC keepin’ it real When I grab the mic to smash a rapper, girls go “Illlll!” Check the time as I rhyme, it’s 1995 Whenever I arrive the party gets live Flow with the master rhymer, that’s to leave behind The video rapper, you know, the chart climber Clapper, down goes another rapper Onto another matter, punch up the data, Blastmaster Knowledge Reigns Supreme Over Nearly Everybody Call up KRS, I’m guaranteed to rip a party Flat top, braids, bald heads or natty dread There once was a story about a man named Jed But now Jed is dead, all his kids instead Want to kick rhymes off the top of they head Word, what go around come around I figure Now we got white kids callin’ themselves n* The tables turned as the crosses burned Remember You Must Learn About the styles I flip and how wild I get I go on like a space age rocket ship You could be a mack, a pimp, hustler or player But make sure live you is a dope rhyme sayer

This is what you waited all year for The hardcore, that’s what KRS is here for Big up Grand Wizard Theodore, gettin’ ill If you see then ya saw I’m in your grill with mad skill MC’s can only battle with rhymes that got punchlines Let’s battle to see who headlines Instead of flow for flow let’s go show for show Toe for toe, yo, you better act like you know Too many MC’s take that word ‘emcee’ lightly They can’t Move a Crowd, not even slightly It might be the fact that they express wackness Let me show ya whose a$s is the blackest I flip a script a little bit, you ride the tip and shi* Too sick to get with it, admit you bit, your style is counterfeit Now tone it down a bit My title you will never get, I’m too intelligent I’ll send your family my sentiments, my style is toxic When I rock and shock and hip hop it unlock your head, I knock it It split quick from the lyric Direct hit, perfect fit, you can’t get with it

Some MC’s don’t like the KRS but they must respect him Cos they know this kid gets all up in they rectum Slappin’ and selectin’ em, checkin’ em, disrespectin’ em Just deckin’ em, deckin’ em, deck-in’ em Who in their right mind can mimic a style like mine? I design rhyme and get mine all the time MC’s standin’ on the sidelines, always dissin’ When I roll up and rush their crew they start b***’ I don’t burn, I don’t freeze, yet some MC’s Believe they could tangle with the likes of these Cross your t’s and dot your i’s whenever I arrive Wide, magnified, live like the ocean tide You dope, you lied, I reside like artifacts On the wrong side of the tracks, electrified Comin’ around the mountain, you run and hide Hopin’ your defence mechanism can divert my heat-seeking lyricism As I spark mad iszm

By Shaun

April 26, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Daybed Wagmoe,

That’s what MC is saying—20 games doesn’t mean French isn’t at a new level but also doesn’t mean he is. Let’s be patient and judge him after at least a month and a half’s worth of games.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

MC = Stinky with access to stats and without the profanity?

(Open camera to Saturday Night Live Weekend Update newsdesk)….

Emily LaTella: Now what’s all this fuss I hear about PEYOTE in baseball? First all this talk about uppers, greenies and reds. Then, steroids, clear and HGH. Now, we find out Braves bloggers are sitting in the desert eating peyote and imagining that they are major league baseball players and managers? This has gone far enough. Who cares what bloggers do in the privacy of their own…

Chevy Chase/Cheddar Cheese: Ms. Latella - the word is PECOTA. That’s PECOTA…. a meaningless software program that uses all sorts of mind numbing numbers and information to spit out worthless unreliable information that stat geeks use to endlessly argue over minutiae. The word is PECOTA, not PEYOTE.

Emily LaTella: Oh, never miiiiiiiiind

By meansonny

April 26, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

I agree with Daybed.

I like statistical data to find the “interesting angle” in a matchup (ie. McBride’s dominance against Left Handed hitters coming into this season). But statistical data doesn’t take into account changes made in one’s approach. Particularly one as drastic as Frenchy. Good article by DOB. I’m sure he knows 20 games isn’t a sample as much as he knows that Francouer is maturing as a hitter.

And as a journalist, his job is to tell it like he sees it. Sometimes, that means putting his pen on paper and making a prediction.

By Coach

April 26, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Robot , you couldn’t manage a hotdog stand.

By Coach

April 26, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

The sad fact is , had the Braves won this game 3-0. Robot would still be making donkey noises and complaining about his daddy , Bobby Cox.

By Daybed Wagmoe

April 26, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

shaun,

it’s not really just these first 20 games. looking back at spring training and last year, he’s progressing as a hitter. in these first 20 games, he’s shown huge strides as a hitter - still aggressive, but he’s got a smarter eye at the plate, and he’s having more productive ABs. these are signs that, to me, show that he’s becoming a better hitter.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

I think Frenchy also had 20 walks in his past 60 games which is a HUGE improvement for him

By Mad Mike

April 26, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

I think I didn’t make my point clear.

We have 3 closers (or at least “late inning specialists”) in our pen. One of them (Wickman) has had Smoltz-like success since coming over from Cleveland. That is to say, he has had almost guaranteed success in the 9th inning going back to last season at our point of acquiring him. If the point of playing the game is to win, and this guy can do it at a near perfect rate (like Smoltz when he was closing), why isn’t he doing his thing? I mean, I am a big fan of BC, and I think his style is perfect for the regular season. But it just frustrates me when it blows up in our faces. (Somebody posted earlier…I think it was Mr. Baseball…that this is just Cox’s kind of baseball. You can’t have the good without the bad. I can see that.)

But I mean, think about the psychological effect resulting from a complete game shutout vs. the psychological effect from losing the lead in a game like that? Seriously, could it really be worth it? Let’s just hope Hudson can avoid a hangover from that 9th inning debacle. I know, I know…debacle is a strong word for one inning of bad (and, arguably, unlucky) baseball. But geez that one really hurt. And again, this subject is tired. I agree with Greg in TN…let’s start thinking about the Rockies. If nobody wants to beat this dead horse with me at all, then I won’t mind.

By Coach

April 26, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Robot , did O’Brien forget to close the door on your cage again ?

By Mad Mike

April 26, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

Did reading DOB’s rant on MC remind anybody of that scene in “Good Will Hunting”? You know, the one in the bar with the Ivy League poetry guy and Matt Damon’s character. And Matt Damon calls him out for passing off somebody else’s ideas as his own…something like that anyway. Yeah I know…Matt Damon is probably a prick. But I usually like his movies. Especially “Rounders.” Great flick.

By Chop Chop

April 26, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

PECOTA projections are very useful, but they can’t account for a guy suddenly figuring out that he needs to exhibit some patience at the plate and then successfully implementing that strategy. I don’t know if Jeff Francoeur has officially turned the corner or not. He could just be on a hot streak, but he already has 1/3 of the walks he had last year…in 141 fewer games. That’s a very good sign…and a sign (if it continues) that PECOTA could never pick up on, especially based on last year’s stats. 23-year-old baseball players tend to improve in their understanding of how to play the game. Those with the most talent have the capacity to improve the most.

By IMFO

April 26, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

How you like them apples, Mad Mike?

By geauxbraves2000

April 26, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

The Marlins gave LoDuca and Delgado to the Mets, how about returning the favor. How about Miguel Cabrera for LF? Think the Marlins would give him to the Braves and pay his salary? No, probably not.

Geaux Braves!!

By N8

April 26, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

Krath

Very nice, well thought out post.

I’ll also note that I’m responding to you to “argue” the pitchcount theory in general, and NONE of this pertains to last nights game.

I tottally agree with you about pitchcount being overrated, but would argue that guys that are striking many batters out, quite possibly are working harder, or at least doin the old “reach back for something extra”. Maybe not. Maybe their “stuff” is just so good, that they have it going on, on that particular day.

I’m also one of the people that believe that the “stress” of the inning (RISP, high pressure situations), are more draining than throwing more pitches in a non-stressfull situation (for instance: 2 outs, nobody on base, while protecting a 5 run lead).

It was nothing more than a suggestion. I wasn’t claiming to know the answer….this time.

DOB

I googled Bill Pecota. Thanks. I forgot all about that guy. That guy was damn good utility guy for the Braves in 1993.

By Mad Mike

April 26, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

Yeah IMFO that scene. I kept waiting to read that line at the end of DOB’s post.

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

knowitall, I was wondering same thing: Hudson retired five of the last six guys in the seventh and eighth inning, piling up strikeouts and groundouts. Yes, he was obviously “out of gas” before the ninth.

As I said last night, I would’ve pulled him after he gave up the two hits to start the ninth, but certainly not BEFORE the ninth. His pitch count was low and he looked fully capable of throwing a shutout.

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

THIS JUST IN: Bad news on Cormier, and Braves hope it’s not real bad news. He’s been scratched from his scheduled Friday rehab start for Richmond because of recurring soreness in his throwing arm.

He’s going back to Atlanta to be evaluated by the team’s lead orthopedist.

Folks, this is why I didn’t want to even try to speculate on when he’d return, and why I was suprrised when Bobby said yesterday that he might need only one more rehab start. I mean, he was sore in the second inning of his two-inning first rehab start. Not a good sign.

By MBATL

April 26, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop, you made the point I was about to make. I think Shaun’s views are interesting and damn hard to contradict in most cases - it’s interesting stuff.

I’ve always felt that Frenchy is just a guy to whom everything has come so easy, he’s never really had to think to perform on a playing field.

Maybe he’s realized that there’s more to this game than just pounding the ball; if so, there’s so much room for improvement because he’s got as much talent as the very best hitters in the game.

That might lead to an improvement that is outside the statistical norms. I’m not saying he’s turned the corner, but so far, it’s promising.

That doesn’t make the PECOTA or ZIPs projections meaningless, but maybe would be the exception that proves the rule. Hope so, anyway.

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Then its time to get Villareal in there to take over Redman’s spot. Wow. If Cormier goes down, NO ONE ON THIS BLOG, even you KC, could think this team could win the division with Mark Redman going every 5th day.

By meansonny

April 26, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Mad Mike I hadn’t read this entire blog, so I don’t know if someone else has touched on the regular season with the Braves.

I think it was about 3-5 years ago in an interview with John Smoltz (sorry no link) that he commented about what Bobby Cox did for the team during the regular season.

He said that Bobby pushed the players limits. He “tested” them during the regular season. Especially pitchers. He liked them to “learn” or “practise” during the season how to recognize that they’re getting tired. Learn how to pitch out of jams. Practise how to win games while fatigued.

I posted this on another board. But this is why it doesn’t bother me when Langerhans and Kelly Johnson were starting against righty’s from opening day. Why I lived with the hate (wrong word) for Adam LaRoche last May only to feel blessed by his presence in the lineup by late August. And why Bobby will leave a relief pitcher who’s in trouble to see if they can fight their way out of it. It’s the regular season. Bobby’s a Player’s Coach. He gives players an opportunity to succeed or fail. And there’s many more games to find out what type of team we’ll be fielding in October.

By geauxbraves2000

April 26, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

The Braves cannot possibly survive with Davies/Redman at the back in of the rotation. Smoltz & Hudson can take care of themselves, James should be just fine. Long winning streaks I think are good for team attitude, and to put pressure on the other teams in the division, and with Davies & Redman I don’t think any long winning streak is possible.

Geaux Braves!!

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

INTERESTING

PLEASE READ BELOW

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/04/tigerscovetsa.html

By Chop Chop

April 26, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Well, the idea that Lance Cormier is going to be “the cavalry” to save the back end of the rotation was/is seriously flawed. I hope he doesn’t need surgery, but the longer that soreness lasts, the more likely it is that something “done blowed up” in his pitching arm. If Redman and Davies continue to struggle, we might see Oscar Villarreal take a few turns. It sure is a far cry from the good ol’ days of the 90’s, huh?

By Baron

April 26, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Good christ, everyone get off this blog and stop rehashing everything over and over an over again. For your own sakes, chill pill time. As a calmative, laydown on the couch with the dusk light falling through the windows and dial up Lloyd Cole’s classic 1984 album “Easy Pieces”. It’s germain to last nights meltdown, including the opening lines of the song “Pretty Gone”:

Somebody somewhere must pay/ somebody else will confess all your sins you’ll be SAVED

I’M GOING TO JAZZ FEST SMELL YA’LL LATER

By Carroll

April 26, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

I always thought Pecota was a middling utility man that used to play for us in the mid 1990’s. In fact, I’m pretty certain he struck out to end the 1993 NLCS. AFter the 1994 strike he was never heard from again.

By N8

April 26, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

DOB

Or anybody who considers themselves a Spinal Tap fan, the link to this clip is a MUST SEE.

Enjoy.

http://liveearth.msn.com/?GT1=9280

By Coach

April 26, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Ye it is Chop Chop. The hits just keep on coming , first Hampton and now Cormier.

By Jim

April 26, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

We’ve just seen Randolph leave in S*weise to pitch to Renteria (after he took out Burgos because Green misplayed Thorman’s drive to right field (and regret that mistake). We saw Gonzalez give Langerhans an intentional walk with 2 out and a new pitcher coming in for sure in the 9th. Torre has already worn out his bullpen, and if we watched every other manager as closesly as Cox, we would find nightly examples of where they have employed the wrong strategy (or the right strategy that just didn’t work out).

I don’t buy the argument, that but for Cox we would have won mere post season series and had more WS championships. What are the examples?

Even Robert can or will only trot out 2 specifics: Bringing in Wohlers to pitch 2 innings in game 4 in 1996 (which I can’t fault Cox for) and leaving in Maddux to start the eighth inning in game 1 of the 1999 series. (I think most other managers would have done the same thing. We were lucky to get to the WS in 1999 and would not have won that WS no matter what moves Cox could make.)

I thought Cox left Avery in one inning too long in game 3 of the ‘92 WS, but going to a bullpen anchored by Reardon didn’t work out very well the night before.

For a decade and a half of post season baseball covering more than 50 games, if these were the prime examples of “mismanagement”, then we have to look at other reasons why the Braves didn’t win more championships. Maybe the players could have played better — more selectivity from the hitters, more bench strength and bullpen help from the GM, and more support from the fans. Cox is not the reason we didn’t win more post season series, but he is the reason why we got there so often in the first place.

By Jim

April 26, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

One thought on the Tiger’s interest in Salty — Maybe we should try to get Andrew Miller in return. With the news on Cormier and the report that Gonzalez still has a sore elbow, we are now getting desperate for a major league-ready top level pitching prospect who can step into the 4/5 spot in the rotation.

For those people asking about Haren or Harden, is there any reason for Oakland to consider that trade? Is there any active interest that Oakland has in Salty? Detroit has some depth in young pitching prospects, but has already traded away some of that in acquiring Sheffield and they still have Pudge for the near-term.

Last thought — If Gonzalez still has a sore elbow, put him on the 15 day DL and let it have time to heal before it becomes chronic or worse during the rest of the season.

By Ron

April 26, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Yeah Krath, and Coach, yall are right on about the Padres Should have left Peavy in the game. Never mind that he already threw 118 pitches in 7 Innings!!! Yeah Remember Kerry Wood when he Struck out 20 Astros a few years ago. I think that was a big problem then and now look at his career, or no career!!!

By Sir Stealth

April 26, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Amen, Jim. I think it’s absurd to criticize Cox for his regular season management as goes on here, but I don’t have a problem with defending his postseason management as well. Bobby Cox has managed a helluva lot of postseason victories and I wouldn’t switch him out for the postseason if I had the opportunity. Once you get into the playoffs, crap happens. Maybe the players don’t perform or the other team just gets hot in those games. Maybe it took great managing to get an inferior team there in the first place. Maybe Lonnie Smith should run the bases better and Eric Gregg shouldn’t be an umpire.

I have no problem going down as a Cox defender on every issue because I know that everyone actually close to the game thinks he’s one of if not the greatest manager of all time and the man has a whole bunch of W’s. Hell I tried to buy one of those custom t-shirt jersies on mlb.com that said COX with a number 6 but they wouldn’t let me. So I don’t try to hide where I stand on that issue and you can call me an irrational Bobby lover or whatever. He, more than any one person, is responsible for all of the Braves success in my lifetime, it has been a lot of success, and the man’s going into the hall of fame wearing a Braves cap. There’s a lot of “fans” out there that don’t deserve what they’ve gotten from him.

By Sir Stealth

April 26, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

I think we can win the division with Mark Redman pitching every fifth game, even though I think he sucks and hope he’s gone as soon as possible. Why am I so optimistic? Well, because even after a giveaway meltdown game last night we’re still only a half game out of first place for the division lead, and we’ve had Mark Redman pitching every fifth game. I’m not making any guarantees or even saying it’s probable, but I think that suggests it could happen.

By Ron

April 26, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

Yes we just signed John Smoltz to a Contract Extension, Great News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ron

April 26, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

Surprised we resigned John Smoltz already, But damn great news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Patrick

April 26, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

PER ESPN!!!! BRAVES SIGN JOHN SMOLTZ TO CONTRACT EXTENSION!!!!

By bobby

April 26, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox has got to be the worst handler of pitchers in all of baseball. Hudson was pitching great but his pitch count was high. Eight innings was enough. Don’t blame Wickman either. You can’t be perfect every time. Besides the game was almost out of control when he came in. Put the blame where it belongs. BOBBY COX!

By porksword

April 26, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

DOB I disagree. I love Cox and don’t want my anger to blur into some sort of notion that I don’t. But there have been three distinct occasions this year where Cox has left our starter in too long. Now you could make the argument that Huddy should have stayed last night and that would be valid. But here we have, at least in theory, a shutdown bullpen (7-8-9) but have used it unwisely. If you have a guy like Wick, who I believe was 6/6 going into last night why not just hand the ball to him and let him do his thing from the outset?

For years Bobby has lived by limiting his starters innings at the beginning of the year in order to save them for the stretch run; and it’s worked. So why the change in philosophy now?

Right now our Braves are very fortunate to be where they are in the standings.

By chipdip

April 26, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

BOBBY COX IS A F—KING GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MOTORHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Josh

April 26, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, any word on the details of Smoltz’s extension?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

April 26, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Folks,,,, that’s baseball.. What about the great game Peavy threw last night for the Padres and then Trevor Hoffman gives up a two run gofer to Drew’s kid brother in the bottom of the ninth.

No body has a great staff top to bottom in the major right now. Nobody… Look, even the Yankees can’t find anybody to buy so they are bringing up a 20 year old kid way too soon.

Going to be an interesting season so hang onto your seat cushions and ride it out.

By bravesfansince1966

April 26, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

Bobby blew it…but I’ll stand with him to the end. We can look forward to a GREAT year!

By Islander71

April 26, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

ESPN reported Smoltz contract is 14mil next year with two option years

By bravesfansince1966

April 26, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

Awesome news about SMOLTZY!!! My second favorite Brave of all time behind Murph!

By Robert

April 26, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

I gotta go back to this amazing post from earlier in the day

“I saw one name in the box score with a loss next to it and was Wickman. Cox didn’t lose the game , neither did Hudson.”

You know, my favorite manager has said some “memorable” things in the past, but I’d be hard pressed to find more than a handful of his doozies that are flat out more IGNORANT than the above quote

Coach - So it’s all about which pitcher got the “W” or the “L”? So, when a guy blows a save but gets a win when his team bails him out, he pitched well and won the game?

There’s people on this blog that I disagree with (some of whom I can and have carried on a legit and civil conversation with. There’s people on this blog I dont care for (some of whom sometimes express opinions in agreement with mine).

It’s possible to disagree with someone and like or at least respect them. It’s people to agree with someone but not like them

But noone on this blog comes anywhere close to matching your complete and utter IGNORANCE. When you attempt to insult me, I almost feel honored, cuz I guess it means my thinking differs from that of an idiot

By Robert

April 26, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

“Turn the other cheek, Lew, and ponder What Would Jesus Do?”

I spoke to Jesus earlier this afternoon. He said he would’ve pulled Hudson after Cabrera’s leadoff single in the 9th

By The Grinch

April 26, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

WORD. :-)

By Robert

April 26, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

“According to RS and RA, the Phillies should be about 2 games better, the Braves should be about a game worse and the Mets should be 2 games better. No one is really under or over performing their run differential to the extreme so far. “

Hmmm - that’s 2 games out of only about 20, or 10 percent. Extrapolate that to a full season and it’s 16 games. I;d say that constitues an extreme.

Once again, failure to understand CONTEXT

By Bill

April 26, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

The signing of Smoltz for 14mil will spell the end for AJ. That’s a great idea, if they could sign Big Z from the Cubs. They need starting pitching now. Trade Salty & Escabar to Detroit for a pitcher and young OF prospect.

By Jay

April 26, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

It’s offical!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2850620

By Robert

April 26, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

“He said that Bobby pushed the players limits. He “tested” them during the regular season. Especially pitchers. He liked them to “learn” or “practise” during the season how to recognize that they’re getting tired. Learn how to pitch out of jams. Practise how to win games while fatigued.”

Presumably he did this so with the idea that he’d use this collected info so that he could optimally utilize the avilable pieces during the postseason

16+ years. 162 games per year. 2000-some games worth of meticulously collected data flushed down the toilet

By Calvin

April 26, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

Link to Smoltz contract ext.

Smoltz gets an extension

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

Ya’ll didn’t really believe Smoltz would leave, did you? Never even a sliver of doubt in my mind. Andruw, that’s a different matter altogether. But I never believed any of the B.S. rumors about “friends” who said he was disenchanted with the Braves and tired of their low-ball offers and blah blah blah.

He’ll retire a Brave. Just like Chipper will.

By Earl

April 26, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

The Smoltz extension definitely means Andruw’s gone, unless there’s a sudden payroll windfall from the team sale or they let Wickman, Renteria, and someone else go. They’ve got to be at least somewhat concerned with Andruw’s slow start. Time to get Brandon Jones ready, but I think Gregor Blanco might be the first one called up.

The announcers also hit the nail on the head. Laroche hit better last year because he was set free from the stupid platoon. If they were in there everyday Diaz and Thorman would both hit better. Play Diaz and Thorman everyday!

By JasonInMaine

April 26, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

I think if the Braves could get a pitcher of the caliber mentioned on MLBTradeRumors, they would do it in a minute, especially when considering who is anchoring the rotation now. They may have to explore a trade sooner rather than later.

By JC FROM UT

April 26, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

I like the deal mentioned about sending Salty to Detroit. I would deal him for Nate Robertson.

By JasonInMaine

April 26, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

With some of the Braves coaches thinking that B. Jones is the real deal and could play right now, coupled with the Braves having the worst LF production in the ML (including last night), why would they be so reluctant? Yes, Devine may not have had the best experience, but what about Frenchy and McCann? They both got called up from AA. So did others that year…

By Randy

April 26, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

Though we do not yet know the numbers on the Smoltz deal, I love the structure. Signed for 2008, 200 innings 2009 option (JS’s good ol’ evergreen clause), and a 2010 team option. Really puts the Braves in a great position. If Smolz can stay healthy next year, we’ll have him in 2009. If he stays effective in 2009, we’ll keep him for 2010. Again, without knowing the salaries, I like the structure.

By Ron

April 26, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

JasoninMaine, I would not want to trade Salty for Burele, or anybody that will be a free agent at the end of the year. Salty is too Valuable for that!!! Especially when it will probably only be a rental player!!!

By Robert (Justice Is The Best)

April 26, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

I believe the Braves want to keep Salty, but if they were to trade him they have several teams to approach. I’m sure I will get some roll of the eyes on some scenarios but here it goes. 1. Tampa Bay…..With all the young players the Rays have they could now be willing to listen to a deal for Carl Crawford. The Braves could offer Salty and Jo Jo Reyes.

1. Blue Jays….Alex Rios and Chacin could be part of a deal for Salty

2. Tigers….Nate Robertson sounds like a really good deal. Perhaps, the Tigers would throw in Craig Monroe

3. A’s……Dan Harren would look awfully good in a Braves uniform

4. Yankees….Melkey Cabrera could be the object of this trade but at this point the Yanks would have to throw in something more and they simply don’t have it

5. Giants…They could possibly be willing to part with Lowry or Cain…especially if they are out of the NL West race by the all-star break

6. Padres….Peavy or Hensley could be trade bait especially if the Padres don’t believe that their current catchers will be able to produce very much

7. Cubs….Honestly, mlbtraderumors.com mentioned the Cubs but other than Rich Hill who would the Braves want. Sure, they would take Zambrano but they can’t afford him this year and sure won’t be able to afford him next year. Wade Miller wouldn’t be the answer since Davies would be just as good as option as a starter as he would. Now, I suppose that Jacque Jones would fit the bill but I would think that whomever Salty would go to would bring somebody in return that will be in Atlanta for awhile

8. Astros….I don’t see much here except for Brandon Backe, whom would be a risk and Chris Sampson is who is likely too young to fill the role the Braves would need in the rotation

9. Marlins…Here is the most intriguing of all. Dontrelle Willis would be the obvious target here. However, would the Marlins be willing to part with him. Honestly, I think they will be hanging around all year whether its the NL East race or the wildcard. I’m sure the Marlins would love Salty but would they love him enough to give up Willis?

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

KneeJerk—jerk—the next time you completely miss the sarcasm in one of my posts, try not looking like an A$sClown, and just refrain from making your moronic comments…

Braves will finish 3rd. or 4th. in their division this season…

By Lew

April 26, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

RJIB-I would just as soon keep Reyes for the Braves than trade him for anyone we could get from the Rays. We don’t need to get rid of any of our top young pitchers. We have enough middle infielders as well as Salty to offer for trade. We will need the pitching in the next couple of years. Harrison and JoJo Reyes should not be offered under any circumstances.

By David O'Brien

April 26, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

I’m hearing that it’s about the same ($14 mill) in second year vesting option and about $10 mill in a straight club option the third year, no buyout.

By F A Skippy

April 26, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

Let me start by apologizing for hi-jacking this blog.I just saw photos of the pens on Mike Vicks property and I’m just as mad as hell.There is a level of behavior that should not be acceptable in this society and anybody who would be involved in what looks be a commercial level dog fighting interprize cross’s a line that must be held by decent people.If Vick had any prior knowledge of this he has no place on the Falcons and I call on all of you to make this known to management.

By Ron

April 26, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

Robert(JITB), Dude, First off the Giants will not trade Cain, no way in Hell!!!, Second the Jays need more Starting Pitching why would they trade Chacin, makes no sense, Third the Marlins are not about to make a Blockbuster trade with another NL East team, Fourth, Just Nate Robetson, would want more, but probably would not get Monroe. Wish we could get Crawford, but not gonna happen. I agree with you on Dan Haren, he would look great in a Braves uniform!!! But I doubt they would trade him, they would try to trade us Rich Harden, and I sure as hell dont wont that injury plagued dude!!!!! Doubt the Padres would ever trade us Peavy, and your right the Astros have nothin except Lane, Sampson and Luke Scott. I really like Luke Scott!!! But would like to get Scott and Sampson. I would take that trade in a HeartBeat, unless of course we move Salty to another position, but that seems highly Unlikely. Basically the Two Only Good Deal for Us is the Astros for Scott and Sampson for Salty, and Dan Haren for Salty and Escobar!!!

By MemphisBrave

April 26, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

As excited as I am about the contract extension for Smoltz, I wonder if this means that the new ownership group will be opening up the payroll a little (90 million??)

Even losing Andruw’s salary (13.5 mil)it seems somewhat curious to guarentee $14 million to Smoltz so early in the season. If my calculations are correct the Braves now have $40-45 million locked up in Hampton, Smoltz and Hudson for next season.

I kind of expected it to be a $10 million deal with potential incentives. I guess there could be more insurance money coming back on Hampton then expected?????

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

Great news on Smoltz. Always had a feeling that fella would stay true to his baseball roots, and get his proper send off at The Ted. Wish the same had been true for Mad Dog & Tommy. But, economics and practicalities being what they are (not to imply I agree with those concepts when it comes to keeping your BEST players ever- and yes, I am referring to Hank as well - will never forgive Turner for shipping him to Milwaulkee, nor will I forgive him for sending Dale to Philly, ain’t too happy, still about letting Maddux go), it happens.

Bobby - are you Robert’s alter ego, Robert’s blog progeny, Robert’s offspring, or Robert’s moniker in youth? None of the above, I’ll bet - at least when Robert bashes Bobby, he does so with unending donkey-isms, and humor. You’re just a Robert wanna be - and that is sad.

You said: *Bobby Cox has got to be the worst handler of pitchers in all of baseball. * Somebody on this blog said the same thing earlier today. No need to call him out - he knows who he is. In a reply post, I challenged him to name a manager who did a poorer job of handling what he had than Bobby. Of course, no reply. I make the same challenge to you. If Bobby is “the worst handler of pitchers in all of baseball”, name one, five, 10, 20, 25 or 50 managers who have done a better job and back it up with something other than general allegations with no supporting proof. By the way Robert, the same challenge goes out to you.

I’ll bet none of those you name will have 3 pitchers he either drafted, traded for and/or managed who will go into the HOF wearing the big “A” on their caps. Put up, or shut up.

By eric the elder

April 26, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

Allow me to be playful. Dale Murphy started his career with the braves as …? Correct: a catcher. Dale Murphy was converted to a …? Correct: a center fielder. Salty is …? Correct: a catcher. Next year the Braves will need …? Correct: a center fielder. Ergo …

By Randy

April 26, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

I’m no salary whiz, but after some quick calculations I came upon an interesting little coincidence. With the Smoltz extension, the major increases in the Braves payroll from 2007 to 2008 are right now looking like: Hudson (+7mil), Smoltz (+6mil), and Hampton (+.5mil), totaling 13.5mil. Andruw’s 2007 salary? Drumroll please…….13.5mil. Hmmmmmm. Not that this means anything, but just funny how it works out.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

Any of y’all ever just watch a ballgame for the purpose of enjoying it?—without having to dissect every damned thing like a biology class toad!

…and don’t even think about attacking me with your condescending bullsh$t, cause I ain’t having any of it…no more nice JackAss!…

By Eric C.

April 26, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

FYI…the M-Braves are kicking a$$ in the Southern League at 15-5. Next best record belongs to Birmingham…the team they just beat into submission.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

Nobody gives a sh$t about Mick Vick, except maybe his momma—he ain’t nothing but a low class, thug that runs fast, throws hard, and is paid a million times over what he’s worth…can he pitch, play left, or lead off?…If not, nobody here gives a sh$t…about Mick Vick…

By Rory

April 26, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Yankees boy wonder did not do so well tonight. Looks like the Yankees will drop to 8-12. Darn shame. It really is. :-) $200 million dollars and no starting pitching outside of Pettite who they have to bring in relief despite his arm problems from the past. Imagine what John S. would do with a $200 million payroll. It would be obscene. Cashman and Torre are both going to get fired before the All Star break. Robert, before you respond, I am well aware that your response is going to be that it would not matter how obscenely good John S. was with $200 mil because Cox would blow it, so don’t bother wasting your time typing it.

By Robert

April 26, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

DOB said “For the record, I thought Bobby should have taken Huddy out after the second hit.”

So, for the record, DOB, please be so kind as to tell us what effect, if any, in your opinion, Bobby Cox’s decision regarding that matter had on the outcome of last night’s game

By Bobby's Cox

April 26, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

I agree with Jim…you can’t fault cox on not winning more championships. in the early years cox got the team there, and so far in the later years too.

In the past few postseasons the braves have played, cox outmanaged the opposing managers. Gardner got outmanaged and learned from cox in ‘05…

i think the main issues with the braves past and present is the hitting…they are way too unselective at the plate. Scrapp hitting teams that put the ball in play in the postseason seem to succeed.

Having pitchers who don’t overpower hitters (i.e. maddux, glavine) is another reason why the braves didn’t win. Pitchers with more dominating stuff that can strike out batters (i.e the pitcher with the most postseason wins SMOLTZ), tend to do much better in the postseason.

It was a mixture of both, not necessarily cox. The middle years against torre is when cox got outmanaged.

But i blame the 1996 series on the umpire that got in the way of jermaine dye from catching that foul ball in shallow right. The yanks don’t score 3 runs that inning and Leritz never hits the 3 run homer off wholers if it weren’t for that play. 3-0 braves lead series if dye makes the catch.

The braves haven’t had the best of luck in the postseason…in fact it’s been lopsided against them…a few the other way, or even non breaks for other teams, and they’d have more championships.

By Rory

April 26, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Shiver me timbers, SJA, shiver me timbers!

By Robert

April 26, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

“By the way Robert, the same challenge goes out to you.

I’ll bet none of those you name will have 3 pitchers he either drafted, traded for and/or managed who will go into the HOF wearing the big “A” on their caps.”

Son, I’ve already told you that when it comes to strategy and utilization of his available resources, I think every single manager in the game at this time is better than Cox

I’ve also said numerous times that Cox did a fine job in the front office. So when it comes to drafting or trading for guys who will end up in the HOF with a big “A” on their cap, kudos to Donk

Now, I have to add that, in my opinion, Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz would’ve wound up in the HOF no matter who they played for. Cox is proof of that in my book

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

SJA:

Good to see your old, cantankerous, profane self back. Wait a minute, when did the nice Jackass ever appear? Must have missed something there. You’re back in front of the keyboard I see, spewing the same sewage as usual. Looks like either the phone company ran a phone line for the modem to the septic tank, or Mommy febreezed the trailer and allowed you back in for a few minutes. You know, the ewe’s await you out back. BAAAAAAA.. the bleat goes on.

By the way, I do agree with you on your comment regarding toad dissection. Course, you being the flea on the hair on the wart on the azz on the frog on the boat at the bottom of sea, you know all ‘bout that stuff.

Good to see ya back in usual form buddy.

:0)~

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Bullsh$t!…whatever Bobby Cox did or didn’t do in the last 15 or 16 years has very little to do with the Braves regular season successes—it was more than likely the fact that the rest of the division sucked like a new brand new Oreck—then in the postseason, when the Braves had to face good teams, they got their a$ses handed to them…

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

Heartwarming words indeed Scalp ‘Em—I had to go back to what got me on the bottom to begin with—foul, vile, profane, bile spewage of the first order—Hell! I was beginning to feel liked, and accepted—can’t have that sh$t!!!…besides, the blog was gettin’ a tad bland…

Never let ‘em pull the wool over your eyes…

By Ron

April 26, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Eric the Elder, Great post about Murphy as a catcher then a Center Fielder, What the Braves cant Move Salty to LF, and Brandon Jones, or Blanco to CF next Season. That Makes absolutely no sense why the Braves want move Salty to LF, no sense at all, I know they want full value when they trade him, but here is an IDEA KEEP HIM WITH THE BRAVES!!!!!!!!! I like him in LF and Brandon Jones or Blanco in CF next season instead of us spending 10-15 Million Next Season for a Mike Cameron or Rowand or whoever!!! Save that Money and Go after a free agent pitcher, maybe Burele, just a thougt!!!

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

All:

I’m glad people have checked out the mlbtraderumors.com post I put up. We already signed Smoltz to an extension, but in reality, we could still afford Carlos Zambrano. Don’t be suprised if Harden is dealt if he is healthy for the time leading to the trade deadline. Harden is a risk. Salty has to be traded for a high end pitching piece. Look around in the Braves system. Chuck James is a nice piece and solid in the rotation, but lets be honest guys, he isn’t an ace or even a #2 starter. And if you look within the Braves system, they don’t have any RHP prospects. Thomas Hanson is in Low Class A. Reyes, Harrison, and Dan Smith are all left handed and in Double A. They all project as #3 starters at best. The Braves need to deal Salty for a RHP that can bring it. They could get one, Salty is a offensive cathcer with high OPS projections. Dealing him for Nate Robertson is out of the question. A’s have Kurt Suzuki in the minors, they don;t NEED Salty. Salty, Jo Jo Reyes and Davies to the Cubs for Zambrano would be a deal that might be considered. Think about it. Why haven’t the Cubs signed him to an extension. It just doesn’t make sense. They haven’t settled on owneership, and by July 31st, they may deal him away. Yes, other teams would be in the fold for him, but we offer a couple things they need, a catcher to replace Michael Barrett and some minor league pitching depth. Thoughts?

By F A Skippy

April 26, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

At the end of the day you folks are an empty lot aren’t you ?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

Robert:

Before you call me “Son”, let’s compare birth dates, boy. You may or may not be older than me, but I ain’t no spring chicken, johnny come lately, or young whippersnapper. I’m an old fart (at least according to Grinch), just like you, who knows as much or more about the game than you. I played ball through high school, and two years of college. I have been a Braves fan since 1966. Went to 3 games that year, even though I lived (and continue to live) 2 1/2 hours west of Atlanta. You will find no longer standing Atlanta Braves fan than me, because, I was there on opening day in ‘66, and have cheered and suffered through 40 years of this team. Get off your freaking, condescending, “know it all” high horse, and come on down here with the rest of us common folk.

I challenged you to name ANY manager who has done a poorer job than Bobby handling pitchers. 1, 5, 10, 20 25 or 50. And back it up with facts, discussion, support, etc. Your response was:

Son, I’ve already told you that when it comes to strategy and utilization of his available resources, I think every single manager in the game at this time is better than Cox

That’s your response? That is the best you can do? Totally lame, Robert. I expected better out of you. You have demonstrated, on occasion, you are knowledgeable, smart and funny. But that comment was plain ole assinine. HEE HAW!!

By Ron

April 26, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, in your oppinion do you think that Salty will play LF, or 1B for the Braves one day, or be traded?

By Rory

April 26, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Imagine what he could do if he would learn to stop cussing?!?! Unbelievable!

By Rory

April 26, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

SJA, Come in. Come in, my child. We mustn’t lurk in doorways. It’s rude. One might question your upbringing.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

SJA:

Douche’, er, I mean touche’ to you. Never let it be said that the JerkAss made any friends or found any support on here - gotta admit it wouldn’t be the same without you on here - it would be better, but not the same. Now its time for you to belch, scratch your arm pit, and go put on some clothes. Your computer screen has eyes and it’s about to go blind. LOL

By Ron

April 26, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Efrim, If we could get Zambrano for Salty, Reyes, and Davies, and be able to sign Zambrano to a 4-year deal, ABSOLUTELY YES I would make that deal, but realisticly would we be able to sign Zambrano, probably not, mainly because he will command about the same type of contract that Andruw will want and we dont have the money for him, what gives you reason we could afford Zambrano?

By Robert

April 26, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

Fade in to Game 7 of the 2008 World Series. Braves vs Devil Rays. Oliver Perez has just frozen Ryan Langerhans with a breaking ball on the outside corner. As Langerhans walks dejectedly back to the dugout, Terry Pendleton jabs Bobby Cox with the 1000 volt cattle prod, which sends Donk storming out to home plate

Cox (to home plate umpire) - Why you blind son of a goat. Here we are down 13-0 in the second inning even tho Reddey has thrown only one bad pitch all night, and now you’re giving us the shaft with that call. I tell you that pitch was so far outside Langy couldnt have hit it with a yardstick

Ump - Bobby, Langy couldnt have hit it if he could freeze time and swing a Mack truck at it.

Cox - Well I tell you what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna stand right here and watch him catch balls in the gap. What’s the harm?

Ump - Bobby, what you need to do is clam up, turn around, and walk to the stable, or I’m gonna boot your donkey behind

Cox - You wouldnt dare! I’ll have you know I’ve been voted Manager of the Year 48 times, I’ve won 23417 games against the Phillies and Nats, and Head Coach thinks I’m the greatest manager of all time

Ump - (with an emphatic finger punched skyward) That’s it. You’re outta here. And Coach, you’re outta here too.

Cox - Ah shucks. Aint like it hasnt happened 127 times before. By the way, is that a sugar cube in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

The story does have a happy ending. With Cox out of the picture, the Braves scrap and claw their way to a 14-13 extra innings win, with the winning run scoring after Calvin Schiraldi walks Craig Wilson, who then steals second and scores on consecutive sac flies by the Jones boys

By Ron

April 26, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Efrim, would not want Harden straight up for Salty anyway!!!

By eric the elder

April 26, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Ron, thanks for engaging, and I agree completely. We’ve now locked up McCann and Smoltz, Francoeur will be next. On a tight budget, we have to hunker down and build from within. We absolutely need one more starting pitcher, but let’s not give the farm away for a left fielder. I’d rather pump up the contracts of 2 or 3 scouts, with incentives for finding power arms who can be ready in a couple of years.

By Robert

April 26, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

“Before you call me “Son”, let’s compare birth dates”

I was referring to your mental capacities, not your physical age

By James

April 26, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Salty could play first and thorman could play left. Thorman came up to the braves and was used in left field the majority of the time.

By Rory

April 26, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

At the end of the day you folks are an empty lot aren’t you?

How did you know? I was thinking about what you said to me, about my posts. I stayed up half the night thinking about it and then something occurred to me and I fell into a deep peaceful sleep and haven’t thought about you since. You know what occurred to me? You’re just a boy. You don’t have the faintest idea what you’re talking about. You’ve never been out of Atlanta. So if I asked you about art you could give me the skinny on every art book ever written…Michelangelo? You know a lot about him I bet. Life’s work, criticisms, political aspirations. But you couldn’t tell me what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel. You’ve never stood there and looked up at that beautiful ceiling. And if I asked you about women I’m sure you could give me a syllabus of your personal favorites, and maybe you’ve been laid a few times too. But you couldn’t tell me how it feels to wake up next to a woman and be truly happy. If I asked you about war you could refer me to a bevy of fictional and non-fictional material, but you’ve never been in one. You’ve never held your best friend’s head in your lap and watched him draw his last breath, looking to you for help. And if I asked you about love I’d get a sonnet, but you’ve never looked at a woman and been truly vulnerable. Known that someone could kill you with a look. That someone could rescue you from grief. That God had put an angel on Earth just for you. And you wouldn’t know how it felt to be her angel. To have the love be there for her forever. Through anything, through cancer. You wouldn’t know about sleeping sitting up in a hospital room for two months holding her hand and not leaving because the doctors could see in your eyes that the term “visiting hours” didn’t apply to you. And you wouldn’t know about real loss, because that only occurs when you lose something you love more than yourself, and you’ve never dared to love anything that much. I look at you and I don’t see an intelligent confident man, I don’t see a peer, and I don’t see my equal. I see a boy. Nobody could possibly understand you, right Will? Yet you presume to know so much about me because of a posting you saw. You must know everything about me. You’re an orphan, right? Do you think I would presume to know the first thing about who you are because I read “Oliver Twist?” And I don’t buy the argument that you don’t want to be here, because I think you like all the attention you’re getting. Personally, I don’t care. There’s nothing you can tell me that I can’t read somewhere else. Unless we talk about your life. But you won’t do that. Maybe you’re afraid of what you might say. It’s up to you.

By The Grinch

April 26, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

My, my; the vitriol is flying tonight. What’s all this about Zambrano? Don’t y’all like the starters we already have? Davies has tons of upside. Redman was a freakin’ All-Star recently. Hampton’s return was just like aquiring an ace free agent. My god, aren’t you people ever satisfied?

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

Awwww…I’m startin’ to feel like a new JackAss again…

I live for this!…

By eric the elder

April 26, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Rory, be well, my friend.

By Uwe Shagger

April 26, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

Wow ! ! ! I found the blog recently but I don’t really think I belong here. I sense that there is real hostility on this blog and I am much to thenthitive to be attacked by the likes of older erics, Lew, and Scalp ‘em. Bobby is doing the very best he can with the thin talent that JS has given him.

If y’all can’t play nice I think I will find me a new playground.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Damn!…Looks like Rory just might have a little JackAss in him!…

Robert—in referring to your mental capacities…you sure as hell ain’t no Methuselah!…

By Robert

April 26, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

Ok, I thought of some improvements to the storyline. Since we cant edit posts, here it is in revised fashion. Enjoy!

Fade in to Game 7 of the 2008 World Series. The Atlanta Braves, managed by Bobby Cox vs the Devil Rays, managed by his mental equal, Chuck “the Chimp” Tanner. Oliver Perez has just frozen leadoff hitter Ryan Langerhans with a breaking ball on the outside cornerto record the first Braves out. As Langerhans walks dejectedly back to the dugout, Terry Pendleton jabs Bobby Cox with the 1000 volt cattle prod, which sends Donk storming out to home plate

Cox (to home plate umpire) - Why you blind son of a goat. Here we are down 13-0 in the bottom of the 1st inning even tho Reddey has thrown only one bad pitch all night. 17 straight screaming line drives. It was the most amazing thing. And now you’re giving us the shaft with that call. I tell you that pitch was so far outside Langy couldnt have hit it with a yardstick

Ump - Bobby, Langy couldnt have hit it if he could freeze time and swing a Mack truck at the ball.

Cox - Well I tell you what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna stand right here and watch him catch balls in the gap. What’s the harm? We dont need any speed. I’m not concerned at all. It’s the most amazing thing.

Ump - Bobby, what you need to do is clam up, turn around, and follow the dangling carrot back to the dugout, or I’m gonna boot your donkey behind to the back lot stable

Cox - You wouldnt dare! I’ll have you know I’ve been voted Manager of the Year 48 times, I’ve won 23417 regular season games against the Phillies and Nats, and Head Coach thinks I’m the greatest manager of all time. It’s the most amazing thing.

Ump - (with an emphatic finger punched skyward) That’s it. You’re outta here. And Coach, you’re outta here too.

Cox - Ah shucks. Aint like it hasnt happened 127 times before. It’s the most amazing thing. By the way, is that a sugar cube in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

The story does have a happy ending. With Cox out of the picture,Leo Mazzone is brought in from the stands to manage. He calls for Tim Hudson to come on in relief. Pitching on his usual four days rest, Hudson throws eight shutout innings while the Braves scrap and claw their way to a 14-13 win.

Jeff Francouer leads off the bottom of the ninth by drawing a walk (Perez’s 25th walk of the game). Pinch runner Sid Bream then steals second and scores on consecutive sac flies to right field by the Jones boys. Bream’s slide just beats the throw to the plate, Atlanta wins its second World Championship under Bobby Cox, and I lose my bet with Grinch

Intervied after the game, Bobby Cox says, “It’s the most amazing thing”

By eric the elder

April 26, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Uwe, by “older erics,” are you referring to me? If so, I have no idea what you are talking about. I make a concerted effort to be civil, and I do not attack anyone. Please cite my attack on you so I can apologize.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

Not sure about your statement the Braves can afford Zambrano. He is making $10 mil this year. The proposed deal from the Cubs, until the potential sale of the team held the deal up, was $80 mil for 5 years ($16 mil per year for the math challenged). Given what the pitcher from the land of fruits and nuts (Zito) hauled down, don’t see him settling for less than what the Cubs were purportedly offering, and may get more, given the lunacy of the FA market. Next year, we’re paying Huddy $13 mil, Smoltz $14 mil, Hampton $15 mil, Chipper $11 mil and Edgar $9 mil. That’s $62 million for 5 players. Doesn’t count what might be in store if Dru resigns (doubtful), but certainly no less than $18 mil, if it happens. So, with Zambrano’s expected salary (without Dru) payroll for 6 players would be $78 mil. And of course, we’ve got another 19 roster spots to fill. Sorry, just don’t see this happening. I like Zambrano. Good pitcher, young, and hell on wheels at the plate (for a pitcher). But, almost seems he has become somewhat of a head case this (understandably, I suppose, given the games the Cubs are playing with him after spending so much money on Lilly, Marquis, Floyd, Soriano in the FA market this year). Just my thoughts. I’d love to have the guy - think he would thrive under BOBBY (nerts to you Robert). But, unless Liberty liberates the purse strings, don’t see it happening.

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

Ron-

We need a pitcher on the sunny side of 30 man. Zambrano would cost 5 years and like 85 million. I’ll take it. He is an ace. He never gets hurt. He is a horse. Salty for Harden straight up? You wouldn’t do that? I know Harden gets hurt a lot, but his stuff is right there next to Johan Santana. Again, I don’t know FOR SURE if Salty can play 1st, so why do we even discuss it. Mccann is entrenched at catcher, if we aren’t moving Salty to 1st base, lets deal him for a pitcher that can help now. When Andruw does leave via free agency, this team is going to have a hole in the middle of their lineup, and some problems in center field. Lets win now…..

By Rory

April 26, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

YAAAAAAAAWN, Robert, YAAAAAWWWN. That story was so boring the first time that I never finished it even without the revisions I could care less to read.

“If one man says to thee, ”Thou art a donkey’,’ pay no heed. If two speak thus, purchase a saddle.”

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

eric the elder—you don’t need to apologize to anyone…you’ve been nothing but polite and civil on this blog—Uwe is another of those punkA$S dolts with nothing to say, but craves attention…he’s right about one thing though, he doesn’t belong on a man’s blog…just like that other cowardly puke!…

By KC

April 26, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

“Lance Cormier was scratched from a scheduled injury-rehab start for Class AAA Richmond due to recurring soreness in his right arm. He returned to Atlanta to be examined today.”

S#%T!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright… let’s get Villarreal in there and see what he can do. Again, he looked good in the rotation last year, and we’ve got to do something.

By Rory

April 26, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

“That which is called firmness in a king is called obstinacy in a donkey”

By KC

April 26, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Again, Villarreal has to be moved to ther rotation. He’s the best option we have. If he doesn’t look like he can handle starting duties… maybe we should trade a little relief pitching to Phili for Jamie Moyer.

By KC

April 26, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Good news on the Smoltz signing though. If nothing else, we know we’ve got at least 3 of our starters set for at least the next 2-3 seasons.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Uwe Shagger - learn how to spell, get your teef fixed, and go shag a sheep - seems to be what you know best.

Robert - you’re a dipwap. Nuff said.

SouthernJerkAss/Off - you da man!! You the watch that takes a licking (from a goat or a sheep - we know you ain’t picky) and keeps on ticking. You got a fricking force field around you repelling any insult thrown your way.

Grinch - the adrenaline is running high tonight. No doubt. All we need is your leg humping, ball licking presence to complete the circle.

Now, may we all join hands around the campfire and sing together Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya…. Ah, I can feel the love…..

By KC

April 26, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

Let’s see… we need another starter. Are there any more free agents left, pitching in their basement?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

KC: LMAO om the Moyer comment. I KNOW that was made tongue in cheek. Hell, while we’re at it, why don’t we trade a little unproductive bench waste (e.g., Wilson) to the Muts and get Julio back? Then the average age of the roster will increase to 40.

By Robert

April 26, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

“Robert - you’re a dipwap. Nuff said”

I’ve been called far worse by far better

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

Robert - I’ve been called far better than far worse - still one up one you fella.

By Ron

April 26, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

Efrim, since when has Harden been healthy for an entire season, that is why I would not make that trade straight up!!! Efrim, Can the Braves not move Salty to LF, hell if Manny Ramirez can play LF anybody can play LF!!! It aint like LF is the Most Important Postion, it is the Least Important Position on the Diamond, and Everyone will agree on that!!!

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Would anyone like to wager that ol’ Robert just tried to Google “dipwap” before he made any comment??…

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

KC,

No trading within the division. Hope you were kidding. Not a lot of pitching out there. Salty needs to get dealt for a pitcher. If we can’t get a pitcher, than this team won’t go on winning streaks, and won’t win the division. I can’t hear people on this blog saying we are beating the mets with Mark Redman and Kyle Davies at the back end of this rotation.

By Greg in TN

April 26, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Evening again late night (at least on the east coast) bloggers…

The Cormier news is a kick in the teeth, however no real information just yet other than the soreness. We’ve had one MRI on Gonzalez that came up negative, so let’s see what happens with Cormier’s follow-up exam and then we can go from there.

The Smoltz extension is great news to this fan. I don’t know what we can read into the fact that JS inked a contract extension with the impending ownership change. Liberty had to be consulted on this and give their approval. This may signal something I’ve been talking about since late last year and that’s Liberty’s payroll intentions for 2007 and beyond. I’ll just file this in the encouraging folder for now.

Eric the Elder Interesting premise on your 9:25 post tonight. It certainly worked well for all parties involved when Murph moved from C/1B to the outfield. The Braves have two options for Salty and that’s either move him to somewhere else or trade him. As long as he’s not in their trade plans, I think JS wanted to see improvement offensively from Jared in the minors. He’s certainly doing that right now in Mississippi. I think as long as he’s hitting well in AA, the Braves may be more tempted to try him in the OF to see how he adjusts, or they may wait until next year and use a stop-gap player in the interim. Brandon Jones, Brent Lillibridge and Diory Hernandez (another shortstop) are doing well early in AA also. Those guys appear to be the next wave of Baby Braves.

Bring on the Rockies, friends…

By Ron

April 26, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

Efrim, you still have not answered how we can afford Zambrano to a 4 or 5-year deal. When next years payroll will be Huddy 13mill, Smoltz 14mill, Hampton 15mill, Chipper 11mill, and Edgar 9mill, not counting Zambrano making at least 16mill a season, and not counting the other 19 players on the team, DUDE we just cant afford that, why not just move Salty to LF, and Brandon Jones or Blanco to CF in Atlanta next Season, sounds better to me!!!

By Scalp 'Em Braves

April 26, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

SJA:

Never thought about the Google angle - did that - Urban Dictionary described him perfectly. My command of vocabulary is, well, awesome (taking a bow and at the same time ducking the rotten veggies and fruit thrown at me).

That’s it for me tonight, choads. Hold the applause down, please. I must rest my brilliant intellect.

By DAP

April 26, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

man, why cant we have the brewers left-field platoon. mench and jenkins are tearing it up. the brewers have the same record as the braves! good for them. i picked them to win their division this year, and predicted about two years ago that they would be world series contenders within 5 years.

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

Ron,

We pay 6 for Edger. Wickmans 6.5 is off the books. Andruw’s 13 is off the books as well. Before we signed Smoltz I figured we would have 27.5 off the books. We don’t need to sign Wickman this offseason. Soriano shuld be our closer next year, or Gonzo, that is why we got them right? We can spend that money on Z. I know it doesn’t work out exactly to scale, Hudson’s salary increases, others get increases in pay, but they can make it work if need be. Hampton’s salary comes off the books in 08 and possibly Chipper’s. They could make it work. Is it overkill? Maybe, but why not sign Zambrano to 17 a year as suppose to some like Ted Lilly to 10 a year? I would gladly pay 5 mill more a year for an ace as suppose to a 3rd starter.

By Efrim

April 26, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

By the way, I know he is listed at 6’4” 195 lbs, but Salty is more like 230 lbs. You want him running around in Left????? I have heard this guy isn’t a lightweight ya know? 1st base may be his only option….

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 26, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em—ain’t it about time, once again, that the little lady gets to experience the thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat, for at least 2 1/2 minutes of her day??…

By Lew

April 27, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Uwe Shagger-You can’t be serious (not with that name, anyway). ScalpEm, Eric the Elder or Me attack someone? Hell, we’re mild mannered compared to some of the people here. I, personally, am kinder and gentler than I used to be. I’m reformed, aren’t I SJA? I don’t give anyone grief that doesn’t give it to me first. I don’t know where you get such notions.

By mr baseball

April 27, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

Let’s see if we can elevate the discussion on our semi-literate manager above Robert’s third grade humor and Coach’s (among others) kindergaten defense of him.

There are two basic approaches to the strategic aspects of managing: from the head (LaRussa being the prime current example) and from the heart (Cox is likely the most obvious practitioner). Guys like LaRussa manage by numbers and matchups, although it’s interesting how he constantly juggles his lineup and batting order, unlike the manager here in the ATL.

Cox’s style of managing includes big helpings of going by the baseball book, particularly in regards to platooning. Sometimes his approach in that regard works — the ‘91 and ‘92 teams the best example. Sometimes they don’t (the playoff series against the Padres I think it was). He clearly impeded Klesko’s development as a player (check out his first 3 years with the Padres before he started getting hurt), and would have done the same to LaRoche if he had a viable RH hitting option for him last year.

When it comes to pitching, Cox’s biggest problem is letting his starter stay in too long, which he has been guilty of for many, many years, although some of you just seem to have begun noticing. With the exception of the last year or two, the Braves have had good to excellent bullpens since ‘91, although one of DOB’s predecessors did his best to convince readers that was not the case.

When bullpens are as bad as they were here the last two years, Cox at least had an excuse to leave Smoltz, Hudson, whoever, in an inning too long. That’s not the case any more. The chances of Wickman beginning the 9th inning and giving up 3 runs were extremely remote. The chances of Hudson suddenly losing it and giving up 3 straight hits were a whole lot more likely.

Head says you get Hudson out after 108 pitches, complete game shutout out the window. Heart says you give Hudson a chance to finish it. Heart wins, Braves lose. Cox will always err on the side of leaving the starter in. That’s one reason why a lot of his pitchers love him. It’s also been a factor in the team’s playoff struggles, although not a huge one.

It’s difficult to pinpoint Cox’s blatant post-season mistakes, although his supporters have to admit that the Braves have lost an inordinate number of close games decided by the bullpens. The two most flagrant were his decision to use Wohlers in the 8th with a 3-run lead in ‘96 and his inexcusable use of Farnsworth in the 8th inning of game 4 against the Astros. As I have posted before, that may have been the single poorest managed game ever in the post-season (for that decision and others), although Cox came close in Game 7 against the Royals sometime in the 80s when he was managing the Blue Jays. That also had to do with his platoon fetish.

Compared to football and basketball, the role of a manager in baseball is considerably less critical. You can win a World Series (or 2) with a manager of no particular regard (see Gaston, Cito), and a great manager isn’t going to be of much use with a talent-deprived team.

No one knows how good the Braves would have been over the last 15+ years with someone other than Cox as manager. The comparisons between him and Torre, Leyland, LaRussa, etc., are pointless, because no one who follows the Braves on a daily basis is also able to follow any of the teams those 3 manage nearly as close.

The main reason people think Cox is such a great manager is his record with the Braves since ‘91. He didn’t do so hot here the first time around, and Torre did a lot better with mostly the same group of players. He helped establish the Blue Jays as a quality team, but they won 2 WS well after he left.

Cox has clearly been the beneficiary of exceptional talent during his second go round with this team. You have to credit him for his work the first 2 years. Since then, it’s mainly been the case of simply not screwing up a championship caliber group. Since ‘92, I don’t think he’s ever elevated the play of his team with his managing, but at the same time, he never did any serious damage either, although we can debate the post-season from now until eternity.

Other than his ability to keep his teams from getting too high or too low during the ups and downs of the regular season, I frankly don’t see any particular managerial skill on his part. But his record (regular season at least) is pretty impressive, so he must be doing something else right.

Just not exactly sure what that is.

By KC

April 27, 2007 12:15 AM | Link to this

“Cox will always err on the side of leaving the starter in.”

I disagree. My observation is that he usually doesn’t chance it like that. But Hudson was throwing one of the best games of his career, and that night probably just seemed a little different. That is… until he loaded the bases with no one out.

It seems to me that BC doesn’t usually take that chance.

By David O'Brien

April 27, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

Efrim, Salty was 235 lbs. a year ago in his first spring with Braves. About the same this past spring. He probably weighed 195 when he was drafted out of high school.

For those who haven’t already seen it: Smoltz deal is $14 mill in ‘08, then $12 mill vesting option in 2009 (vests if he pitches 200 innings in 2008), then straight club option (no buyout penalty) for 2010 that would be $13 mill if he pitches 200 innings previous year, $12 mill if doesn’t.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 27, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

Lew is a much kinder, gentler Lew…slower on the trigger, lighter on the peddle, easier on the blood pressure, low sodium, low fat, low cholesterol…but just as dangerous if you try to pi$$ in his boot, while telling him it’s just rain falling!…you don’t pull on Superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind, and you don’t %&@$#*&%#$@ around with ol’ Lew…Uwe got that A$sClown??…

By Sir Stealth

April 27, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball, that was certainly a very reasonable analysis. I personally think that you overvalue the talent on a lot of the teams the Braves have had somewhat. Bobby has won with a lot of turnover in players (things seem to go wrong with roster changes a lot more for every other team). There have also been years when the Braves have won despite key injuries that might have devastated other teams. He even pulled the youth movement thing off a couple years ago. So there are reasons to think that his consistent winning despite all of the inconsistency has been impressive. Other than some of the monster starting rotation lineups that we’ve trotted out some years and the one year of loaded offense when the top of the order clicked, we still had Sheffield, and Javy was probably on ‘roids, the offense hasn’t really been all that exceptional. Yet the Braves win and win and win.

It’s very true that there’s no real way to know if the winning is because of Cox or in spite of him and no real way to know how other managers would have done or compare them. No way to know if the genius all rests with Bobby or Schurholz or Leo or is all spread out. Maybe you don’t like some of Bobby’s moves as far as leading by the heart, but maybe that overall appraoch is what works in the end.

My feeling is, if you don’t know but your team always wins, shouldn’t you like your own team’s winning manager? Shouldn’t you want to think that your manager is good because he leads your winning baseball team? Because all his players that you’ve cheered for over the years have always loved him? Even if there’s no way to prove for complete certain if he should be credited for his wins, shouldn’t we love him for being the leader of the team when they happened? I’m a diehard Braves fan and Bobby Cox has been synonomous with the team I love during their success. He’s been there as all the players have come and gone. Even Smoltz had to go to the DL. It’s only been Bobby the whole way through. I think there’s something to be said for that if you love this team.

And yes, I am enjoying the view from the soapbox lately. No, Bobby Cox is not my dad.

By Ron

April 27, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this

Efrim, Dude how much does Manny Ramirez weigh, 235 is not that big to play LF, it ait CF you know? SJA you a funny dude man keep it up!!! Man it is crazy how Robert rants about how bad a manager BC is and Coach rants about BC can do no wrong. I agree more with Coach, but still I aint gonna say BC has not lost the Braves any games like Coach says because he has, Every manager loses games that is the way it is, and yes BC lost Wendesday’s game. Both of you are livin in LALA Land!!!

By mr baseball

April 27, 2007 1:22 AM | Link to this

Sir Stealth: I have tried to engage the Cox supporters on the blog in a little back and forth the past few months, and your response is the most reasoned post that’s come back. It’s hard to disagree with you.

The main reason I have such a hard time seeing Cox as the great manager others view, is that what he does best is out of our sight. The public part of managing (game strategy), which is plain for all to see and debate, is where he struggles.

In a perfect world, Cox would have somebody sitting on the bench that he listens to, alerting him that maybe he shouldn’t send Smoltz/Hudson out for the 7th/8th/9th inning. Or maybe he needs to think about giving Thorman a start or 2 against a lefty. Or remind him that having Renteria or McCann bunt is NEVER a good idea.

At least with the bullpen the GM has assembled, at least we won’t have to worry about Cox hitting the panic button in the post-season and sending out the closer in the 8th inning. Assuming, of course, we make it to the post-season.

On the pitching front, with Cormier apparently out for a while, the next option if Redman is cut loose should be Villareal. Off his showing the other night, Moylan seems to be able to handle the long relief job, and there appears to be an abundance of possible bullpen replacements in AAA if Paronto is out for a while.

If Cox can somehow work it out, he needs to try and separate Redman & Davies in the rotation so the bullpen doesn’t get overly taxed if they have back-to-back shaky starts. Without many off days, however, that may be a tough thing to do.

By Coach

April 27, 2007 2:05 AM | Link to this

Robot , you need to go back in your doghouse. You ruin this blog on a daily basis.

By mr baseball

April 27, 2007 2:18 AM | Link to this

Robert: whatever folks say about you on here, they can’t deny your comedic talents. Hee haws aside, you provide more chuckles per post than anyone here, alleged professional comedian troglodyte included.

By Coach

April 27, 2007 2:19 AM | Link to this

The sad fact is , had the Braves won the game 3-0. Robot would still be making donkey noises and complaining about his daddy , Bobby Cox.

By jed

April 27, 2007 2:34 AM | Link to this

i hear it was a nasty game the other night. Of course, I wouldnt know because it wasnt on tv where I live. And it’s not on the Dish, because Bud Selig makes it as hard as he can for people to watch the sport he’s supposed to be promoting. Anyway…the game must’ve been brutal indeed because it looks like Lord of the Flies on this blog. Yall try not to eat each other, okay?

By jed

April 27, 2007 3:53 AM | Link to this

Also, there’s a great article in the New Yorker on Manny Ramirez. April 16 or 23rd issue—cant remember, but you can probably find it easily enough on NY’s website. Anyway, Manny’s a piece of work. A true knucklehead and a true DH, for certain, but, well, an original, no doubt. He makes Bill Lee look like Bill Gates.

By jed

April 27, 2007 3:56 AM | Link to this

here ya go:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/23/070423fafactmcgrath

By bergian

April 27, 2007 4:32 AM | Link to this

Robert, Calvin Schiraldi? Man, that’s a name I haven’t heard in a decade or so!

By Coach

April 27, 2007 4:54 AM | Link to this

Braves win , robot complains. Braves lose , robot complains. Braves get a day off , robot complains. Irrelevance is robot’s talent and the Braves don’t give a damn.

By Rory

April 27, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Why don’t they just call up the entire minor league system already so that we can spend all day and night telling those kids how much they suck? Then we can spend all day and night trying to pawn off the kids we just brought from the minors in favor of the other kids in the minors who are even more ill prepared for the MLB than the kids we just brought up. Then we can boo and tell those kids they suck as well and turn on them just like we did to the first batch of kids we begged to come up and all the veterans we booted out the door in favor of the first batch of kids that we later turned against just like the vets.

If the kids were ready, they would be here, don’t you think? Frenchy has had growing pains as a result of being somewhat rushed to the majors. McCann has been good from day one but also took some time developing into the monster he now is. KJ went through some growing pains two years ago. Davies has struggled. McBride has struggled. Devine has pretty much been destroyed. Y’all hate Langerhans. Betemit proved he was not a starter despite being a productive backup and he got the boot. Laroche took forever before turning into a monster at the end of last year. Giles was up and down his first few years. Furcal was inconsistent. Chipper was good his first year but not the great Chipper he became. Andruw was rushed early and took a few years to settle in as a starter. Chucky T was a really good rookie callup, but how well has that worked for his career since? Derosa was good in a backup role but nothing more. Orr continues to be a waste of roster space. James was lightning in a bottle last year but we’ll see what he does this year (hopefully great). Thorman shows promise but performance ain’t exactly the same thing as performance.

So, everyone calm down with the kids. The kids are in the minors for a reason. When they are ready, they will be here. John & Bobby have never hesitated to bring kids up when they think they can help. Hell, Bobby often inserts kids like KJ into the 3 hole even though he was struggling as soon as he is called up. Very rarely are you going to get the lightning in a bottle that Frenchy gave us two years ago and that James gave us last year. Any kid you bring up now most likely will not perform that much better than Langerhans. You can’t bring a kid up solely for the reason that at least his name ain’t Langerhans. That’s how poorly run franchises operate. The majors are also not places for development. That’s why they have the minor leagues. This team is also not good enough and no longer has the resources to let kids like a Druw or Klesko slowly develop hiding behind a great team and great stars like in the 1990s. When these kids get called up the current Braves, it is either sink or swim. If they sink, you risk what happened to poor Devine.

SO, everyone please chill with this incessant hard-on you all have for minor leaguers. Y’all remind me of the college football fans who seem more fascinated by recruiting than what is actually going on with the players already at the school. Too busy worrying about the next minor leaguer, next recruit, next job, next girlfriend, next wife to appreciate the one you already have despite the flaws.

The grass is always greener but you can’t ignore all the fertilizer and rain that comes along with making the grass greener. Call ‘em up, and you just might find yourself standing in a pile of doo while under a rain cloud.

By Drummerdad

April 27, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

The Smoltz extension is great. It’ll be cool and sad when he retires as a Brave.

Cormier’s news is disheartening. Maybe this will help Davies adjust the threads so he can get his head screwed on straight. The team needs you kid.

I remember a few years back when the rock solid pitching staff was dismantling. We had to trade Kevin Millwood for Johnny Estrada and John Schuerholz was mad about the “economics of the game”. He said the amount of money that was being spent was all screwed up. I’ve read his book and also read his comments about being commited to this budget and building a championship caliber team within this structure. Yet I heard an interesting exchange between him and Skip Caray during a rain delay recently. Skip asked him what he’d rather have, an unlimited budget or a deep farm system. Schuerholz said he wanted both. It was a light moment to be sure, but I wonder if he and Terry McGuirk are working the new owners yet? Maybe for enough expanse in payroll to go get another pitcher and perhaps a left fielder?

By Drummerdad

April 27, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Yeah, maybe they go after Cliff Floyd or Baldelli? And/or they trade for a proven lefty?

By UVABrave

April 27, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB, I was wondering if you had details about the vesting option year of Smoltz’s contract. What happens if he doesn’t reach 200? Does the contract end at one year or does that 2nd year become a team option like the 3rd year?

By Lew

April 27, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

Couple of things from overnight-SJA-Thanks for your 12:34 post. I AM trying (somewhat). Jed-Where do you live? When you say no Braves on the dish the other night, do you have the MLB Extra Innings package? That’s what I have on cable and I got the game. Strangely enough, it was the Marlins’ feed, so they did broadcast. I’m not sure why you would have been blacked out unless you were from the South Florida area. Drummerdad-How have you been, Dude. It’s been a while. I’m not certain that there IS a new owner yet. Wasn’t there a deadline coming up very shortly that would negate the tax savings for Liberty Media? I had the impression that passing said deadline would be a deal breaker. DOB-Do you have any idea? Isn’t the drop dead date coming soon?

By Lew

April 27, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Rory-Your 9:02 post is one of the most sensible that I’ve seen the whole time we’ve been discussing the slow start “problem”. THanks.

By Ricardo

April 27, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Lew -

I thought I saw the same thing about Liberty Media having a drop dead date on this, but I thought (I’m guessing) it was mid-May or something. Still, not that far off. Either way it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

By krath

April 27, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Ron wrote: “Yeah Krath, and Coach, yall are right on about the Padres Should have left Peavy in the game. Never mind that he already threw 118 pitches in 7 Innings!!! Yeah Remember Kerry Wood when he Struck out 20 Astros a few years ago. I think that was a big problem then and now look at his career, or no career!!!”

The tone of that sounds like you think I’m not thinking clearly or something. Well first of all… my take on that was not that Black should have left Peavy in or taken him out. My position is that no matter which route the manager takes, it can backfire on him and he’ll be criticized.

I have, however posted before that I don’t buy into pitch counts. I’m not the only person inside or outside of the sport who believes that so my belief doesn’t necessarily make me an idiot.

I got these excerpts from the Cincy paper referring to an earlier time. Please read;

*”Boston starter Luis Tiant pitched 14 1/3 innings and took the loss. Nolan Ryan of the Angels lasted 13 innings, struck out 19, walked 10 and — hold onto your helmets — threw 235 pitches

The Los Angeles Times’ game account acknowledged “Tiant and Ryan dueled tenaciously,” yet there was no mention of Ryan’s pitch count in the game story or the following-day notes. Ryan knows he threw 235 only because Tom Morgan, the Angel pitching coach, kept track on a hand-held clicker. On Ryan , “It obviously ruined his arm because he had to retire 19 years later,” said Bill James, a renowned chronicler of baseball facts and figures. Ryan took his regularly scheduled start four days later and won, pitched again five days later and won again, started five days after that and tossed a one-hit shutout against Texas. Ryan says, in 1974, he averaged between 160 and 180 pitches per outing.”*

If you look up some of the biggest innings eaters in the last 30 years you’re going to find power pitchers like Steve Carlton and Roger Clemens as well as Ryan. You’re also going to find the soft tossers like Niekro and Charlie Hough. Some of the guys were throwing 300 or more innings! You don’t do that coming out in the 7th inning of games. One more thing. Many of these guys were strikeout pitchers so they WERE throwing a lot of pitches in those 300 or so innings. Ryan’s arm didn’t fall off. Neither did Carlton’s. I read an account where Johnny Sain was doing a pitch count on Glavine in his early years with the Braves where he threw between 150 and 160 pitches in a game. Chuck Tanner told him to roll the clicker back to 120 so that upper management wouldn’t freak out if they questioned the count. Sure enough Sain was questioned about it and showed the clicker at 120. This story was attributed to Tanner.

Are today’s pitchers geared for pitch counts? Absolutely. Do I feel that when a guy has thrown 100 pitches and is still dealing he cares about his pitch count? I don’t think so.

Athletes today are bigger, stronger and smarter when it comes to conditioning…. or at least that’s the common conclusion. The pitching rubber is still 60 ft 6 inches away from the plate. The ball weighs the same as it did 30 years ago. So whats up with these new super atheletes not being able to throw more than 100 pitches?

It doesn’t seem that it’s the type of pitcher but WHO is the pitcher? Pitch counts are probably valid…… to an extent, but to say that some guy who is throwing effectively is done because he threw a magic number of pitches just doesn’t make sense to me.

Ron, you’re entitled to feel that pitch counts are THE end all if you wish… but don’t act like I’m some idiot for not considering pitch counts like you do. I’m not tied to pitch counts in drawing my conclusions.

One more thing….. initial point wasn’t pitch counts at least from my standpoint… it was that one manager did it by the book and the other manager didn’t. Both lost the game and both are being second guessed for it. They can’t win.

By KC

April 27, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Here’s the solution:

Salty, Prado, and Devine

to Texas for Kevin Millwood (TX pays half (5.5 mill) of Millwood’s 2008 salary.

We don’t know exactly how much insurance money is coming back for Hampton this year, but we know it has to be at least around half of his 15 million dollar salary… or at least the portion (12.5) Atlanta pays this year.

So it’s safe to assume that at least there’s another 6-7 million back in the war chest this season, and JS always goes into the season with at least a few million of payroll flexibility. Millood’s salary this year is 8.5 million, so that deal would work financially.

From a baseball standpoint, the Rangers are weak at 2B and C right now… and they’re not going anywhere this year. Young talent should appeal to them.

By KC

April 27, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Cut Chris Woodward and promote Willie Harris. He’s tearing up AAA with a .363 avg., a .457 OBP, and 5 steals through 16 games.

He’s no worse a hitter at the major league level than Woodward or Orr. Plus, he’s a legitimate base-stealing threat (something we do not have on this team at all right now), and he can play 2B, SS, or any of the outfield positions.

WOODWARD OUT… HARRIS IN!!!!

By David O'Brien

April 27, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

OK, I’m back from sleep deprivation, I’m fed, and I’ve got my coffee sitting here at the desk. Time to write a new blog gimme a few minutes and I’ll post with my take on the Smoltz thing, what to do about the rotation if Cormier’s not gonna be back soon, etc.

Oh, and Lew, that date’s still 2-1/2-3 weeks ago, the sale deadline date, which coincides, I think, with first day or two of owners’ meetings. Once they got this far along, vote wasn’t going to be held until then, didn’t make any sense to get all the owners together on a conference call to vote on that now, when they’re going to be together for the meetings anyway and can vote then.

By Lew

April 27, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

KC-I repeat-You don’t know that the Braves will recoup half of Hampton’s salary. It is nothing but speculation-and not at all informed speculation. And Millwood? Come on. IF we have half of Hampton’s salary, we can do better than Millwood. Also, hoping for Texas to pay half his salary is absurd to begin with-anyway, Texas needs him. Come on, Dude, I know you’ve got more sense than that.

By rammerjammer

April 27, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Interesting post krath.

There’s more than a few baseball folks who think pitchers need to throw MORE, not less, to build up arm strength. Bob Gibson was another example of a guy who seemingly never tired.

But there’s just as many, if not more, who point out pitchers with heavy workloads who were burned out early (Drysdale, McLain).

I’ve heard it said that every arm has a certain number of pitches in it. When you hit that number, you’re done. Maybe that explains freaks of nature like Ryan or early flameouts like Steve Avery.

By Lew

April 27, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

DOB-Thanks. I knew you had talked about the sale, but I forgot when the meetings were. Is there any indication of whether or not the sale will be approved? Would the presumption of approval be enough for LM to offer JS more money to work with? Lord knows we could use an influx of cash-if not now, then in 08 and beyond. KC-I have no problem whatsoever with dumping Woodward. I’m still not convinced that Harris is ML material-he certainly hasn’t definitvely proved that over a six year career, but Woodward sure isn’t the answer.

By Lew

April 27, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Rammer-Not disputing your theory on throwing too much, but I do have questions with your assertions about Drysdale and McLain. First, Drysdale did have a 14 year career, starting when he was 19. You are correct-He only pitched until he was 32, but he DID have a 14 year career-a not insubstantial amount of time, in which he pitched a minumum of 239 innings a year, except for his first and last seasons. I really don’t recall major arm issues during that stretch, though I could be wrong. McLain is a whole ‘nother barrell of apples. He DID have arm trouble, but that was the least of his worries. His career may have ended more from his gambling and association with gambling types. As we have seen, baseball has damn little tolerance for gambling. Add to this the fact that McLain drank 4 six packs of Pepsi a day and ended up with diabetes. It is my contention he was sick a lot earlier than anyone knew (I was drinking 2 litres of Pepsi a day when I was diagnosed-in hindsight, it was one of the leading factors in my diabetic downfall). In that diabetes affects circulation in a major fashion and circulation is the most important aspect of healing, I think McLain’s arm problems may have been an excuse for his leaving baseball. Again, I could be wrong, but it IS something to think about.

By KC

April 27, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Lew: None of us really know a damn thing about any of the inner-workings, yet we (including you) talk about such things all the time.

Of course I don’t have any hard information about what kind of insurance money the Braves are getting back on Hampton. But I don’t feel my speculation is “no at all informed”.

I’ve never worked with any companies that write these sorts of specialized policies, but I do have some knowledge of the insurance industry in general… and I just find it very unlikely that a policy would be written for anything less than something at least in the neighborhood of 50% of the total loss. That is why I feel the Braves will have at least 6 million coming back for Hampton.

I could be wrong. Unlike you, I’ve been wrong before.

And yes, I’m advocating Kevin Millwood. I think Millwood could be looked toward for an ERA around 4.00… with is actually fairly good by today’s standards, and would certainly be good enough to win a lot of games in Atlanta.

What does Texas need him for Lew? Unless of course they think they have a legitimate chance of winning the west… and it’s just a matter of time before it once again becomes apparent to them that they’re not going pass the Angels. If they were smart, they would make that deal in a heartbeat. They need to build their base of organizational talent. Veteran free agents aren’t going to help them get where they need to go… not yet anyway.

By Mike S

April 27, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

KC: How are the Rangers weak at 2b this year?

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 27, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss has a little knowledge as to the inner workings of insurance companies—I know that they try to screw me every time…worse that car salesmen, or the IRS…

By Robert

April 27, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

I do believe I may have had a post deleted.

What Cox does well is in fact out of our site. It’s work he does (or did) in the front office. He did a fine job as GM. Let him do it again. I guarantee you, Cox would be a better GM than Schuerholz, cuz for starters, HE wouldnt hire himself as manager

Scalp Em and Coach - y’all are what we refer to as 5PT

DOB - I see you chose to duck the question. Fair enough.

You know, I really was enjoying this blog more the past week or so.

Watching that game the other night, y’all seemed to think I was celebrating.

I wasnt

I wasnt screaming at the tv or throwing beer cans at it either. I’m beyond that

I just kind put my face in my hands and shook my head - not believing but then again believing cuz it was after all just a rerun

Y’all will notice that for a while I didnt really even post about it

I guess what got me was the comment about how the “L” in the newspaper box score was next to Wickman’s name and not Cox’s or Hudson’s

I’m thinking - there is some idiot out there who watched that game and actually thinks the loss should be pinned on Wickman. Unbelievable. But then again (like watching the Donkcapades) believable, cuz I saw who wrote it

Mr Baseball - I read your post. I have one question. If there’s a guy that will be able to remind Cox of all those things - then what do we need Bobby for? It seems his guardian angel would be able to do the job hisself

The notion that the greatest manager of all time needs someone putting little sticky notes on his lunchbox or slipping little notes into his uniform pocket reminding him not to overuse his starter, not to let certain guys bunt, and to make sure his fly isnt unzipped is just hilarious

Only N8 had a better idea actually - which was to give him the fake steering wheel, keep him thinking he was running things

By David O'Brien

April 27, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

KC, the Braves just used some of whatever they’re getting back from Hampton insurance to sign Smoltz. Part of Smoltz’s $14 mill salary for 2008 is coming in the form of a signing bonus to be paid this year. I don’t know how much, but safe to say it’s in the millions.

By TheSouthernJackAss

April 27, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

…and that is hard information…

By KC

April 27, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

DOB: Gotcha. Money well spent then.

By KC

April 27, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Mike S: You’re correct. I don’t follow the Rangers and didn’t look close enough. Kinsler looks like a ballplayer there at 2B for them.

By JasonInMaine

April 27, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

It will be interesting to see what the Braves do, especially now that it appears Cormier won’t be around any time soon. I hate to be repetitive, but I don’t know how long we can hang with the Mets with Davies and Redman pitching 40% of the games.

By Shaun

April 27, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Not that any one every thought otherwise, but doesn’t the Smoltz extension indicate furthermore that Andruw Jones will most likely be gone?

By Gil in Mechanicsville

April 27, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

What’s up with today’s pitchers? I would answer that with they can no longer use the same supplements, hitters have gotten better and the game has become faster. Once upon a time you might have one guy on a team like a Mantle or a Williams, now you have ten.

For every Ryan there will be 50 Woods.

Dave O’Brien Enjoy enjoy time in God’s country and breath deep. Only problem is the trip back and that beat up feeling you get from the jet lag. Funny how it only seems to happen flying west to east.

Watched the Gnats beat the Phillies yesterday. That kid Shawn Hill pitched a heck of a game yesterday so it was not just smoke and mirrors against the Braves.

Great quote from Pat Corrales when ask his most memorable moment as a Phillies, he said “it was to be fired when the team was in first place.

By krath

April 27, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer

I agree that there are two schools of thought and none of us can say definitively which one is right and which is wrong.

It’s just as easy to say, “I disagree” as it is to act like the person voicing an opposing opinion is a mindless idiot. I appreciate your response.

I think it was Eric who voiced his frustration over not having a valid question addressed while folks who were clearly ranting were getting all the responses.

We are an “in your face” society. For some reason some folks think it’s cool to belittle others and call names. Like it or not… it gets attention.

I suppose that’s why I’m a baseball fan. There are no endzone celebrations. There is no trash talk. The sports polices itself on the field. That said, there are still too many guys standing at the plate and admiring their homeruns a bit too long for my liking.

That’s one reason I respect Russ Springer. Yep, Russ Springer.

At the start of last season, he nailed Barry Bonds for admiring a home run he hit off Springer a bit too long the previous season! Remember Pudge Fisk getting into with Deion Sanders? He basically told Deion…”this ain’t football…. you don’t try to show people up here.”

I’m an old timer and I guess I relate to the old time ways.

I would love to see Bonds, Manny Ramirez and a few others standing at the plate admiring a shot they just hit off Bob Gibson!

They had better wear a flack jacket and a steel pot on their head the next time up!

Respect is in short supply in our society. It’s also in short supply on most blogs as well.

By Rory

April 27, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Kinsler, I have Utley & Kinsler and McCann and Mauer on my fantasy team and only one utility spot. Who should I bench folks? I want to bench Mauer just to spite him but he is awfully good. Utley started bad and Kinsler filled the void rather nicely which made the decision easy but now Utley has turned it on. I’ve got quite the dilemma.

Needless to say, my team is in first place in fantasy by a rather wide margin. Frenchy, Lowell, Hanley, Beltran, Cuddyer have also done really well for me thus far. The Fat Prince of Cold Beer has filled in rather nicely for ADDam Laroche. My pitching is doing alright but it is very suspect and likely to crumble.

By Renegator

April 27, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Here is my problem with the Bobby slurpers. When we talk about Bobby’s success - you point to the wins he has. However, whenever we lose a game, you guys don’t hold Bobby responsible - you get the “well he didn’t pitch or swing a bat” response. You can’t have it both ways - you can’t praise Bobby for the wins but then blame the players for the losses.

By KC

April 27, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

DOB: Any more info on Cormier? What were the results of the exam… or has it happened yet?

By rammerjammer

April 27, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Speaking of pitching freaks of nature, remember Mike Marshall?

Truly unreal resiliency. He pitched 823 relief innings between 1971-76. Then in 1979 he pitched 142 relief innings at age 36 and finished fifth in the Cy Young voting.

In 1974, when he won the Cy Young, he pitched 208 relief innings. That’s three years of work for today’s closers!

If you’re 50+ like me, you remember him as a true original.

Here’s a great article on him, albeit it’s three years old:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mim0FCI/is1262/ai110471526/pg_1

By rammerjammer

April 27, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Sorry that Marshall link didn’t work. Whoever’s interested can find it on a Google search.

By DonCoburleone

April 27, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

“For those who haven’t already seen it: Smoltz deal is $14 mill in ‘08, then $12 mill vesting option in 2009 (vests if he pitches 200 innings in 2008), then straight club option (no buyout penalty) for 2010 that would be $13 mill if he pitches 200 innings previous year, $12 mill if doesn’t.”

Wow, going from $8mil this year to $14mil next year? Add’l $6mil on payroll there, additional $7.5mil when Hudson goes from $6mil this year to $13.5mil next year… That already swallows up all but $1mil of Andruw’s $14.5 mil salary this year. Wow, if any of you think this doesn’t cement Andruw Jones’ departure then you are insane… (unless Mark Cuban becomes our new owner before the season is over)

By Shaun

April 27, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Gil in Mechanicsville,

It’s always been that way with pitchers (for every Ryan there are 50 Kerry Woods). It’s the nature of pitching a baseball, there are huge injury risks.

As far as 10-25 hitters on a team being like Mickey Mantle, I don’t think that’s true. Sure hitters have gotten stronger but I just think the game has changed in a lot of ways besides that for a variety of reasons.

I think hitters now realize they can hit homers the opposite field more than past hitters realized. I think management has gotten smarter as far as what creates runs: a lineup with a lot of guys who wait on a good pitch and drill it when they get it.

By eric the elder

April 27, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

krath, your 12:21 was spot on with something that needed to be said.

By Shaun

April 27, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Gil,

Should have been 10-15 hitters on a team.

By Gil in Mechanicsville

April 27, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

krath Welcome, someone whom espouses information without inane emotion. A welcome relief from so many who clamor away here.

By Lew

April 27, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

KC-Don’t go getting your panties in an uproar, Dude. Yes, I have speculated about some subjects, but never about how much the Braves get from insurance. You have never read any article from an informed Braves’ source which indicates how much insurance money they will receive. That’s because the Braves brass, as always, refuses to tell anyone. Even David O’Brien is stonewalled on the question. So don’t sit here and tell me that I’m being unfair to you. You flat out don’t have a clue on the amount, any more than I do, or anyone else except JS and the Braves’ front office. You are indulging in speculation-just like I claimed. Have fun with your speculations-but don’t sit there and act like you know what you’re talking about-in this case, you don’t. You can claim it’s 50% of his salary, but you don’t even know what that salary may be this year for insurance purposes. You don’t know what the coverage is on whatever the salary may be. I’m not trying to say you’re an idiot, or anything, but speculation, in this instance is futile.

By tyyosh

April 27, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball, Regarding your 12-something AM post: There have been pitching issues for sure (I cringe at the thought of Charlie Liebrandt in 1991 and 1992) but I think a lot of times the bullpen was just not that deep past 1-2 guys. The first time it was really deep since 1991, I think, was 1995 when they won it all (Wohlers, McMichael, Pena, and a decent-enough Borbon, Jr).

But it is too easy to second guess after what happens. For example, you refer to the 8th with Farnsworth in Game 4, but do you remember that the defense and umps gave Houston 5 - FIVE - outs? Giles forgot where 2nd base was, and then the ump missed the double play where Chipper’s throw only slightly pulled Franco off, although he was still on the bag! If those do not happen, then there is no second guessing.

By Lew

April 27, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

SJA-You damn well speak truth. I just dealt with my health insurance company for two hours yesterday. They were denying claims based on diagnoses codes they thought weere too vague. Despite paying huge premiums, they still are out to get anyone possible.

By KC

April 27, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Is there anything more rediculous than this “bloody sock” controversy? Asinine. There are a million more interesting things for the national sports media to be talking about (inbeteen Yankees/A-Rod coverage, of cocurse).

By David O'Brien

April 27, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IS UP.

By flange1

April 27, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew,

I know exactly what you are talking about with insurance companies! My Mom got sick and died in February and they are still trying to fight over servies performed in July of 06! Even worse, some of her doctors are billing for treatment they gave her after she died….I don’t know who I hate more!

On baseball,

It was a tough loss against the Marlins. I agree that Hudson was left in a bit too long, but I don’t think we can blame Bobby or Hudson or Wickman. Sometimes, sh## happens! We just need to be glad Hudson is pitching better, that Smoltz has resigned and move on.

On Cormier, I think we have to wait and see just like when Gonzo had his MRI. Hopefully it will be nothing. I thought the Gonzo test would come back OK, but I am not sure with Cormier.

I do think we should consider flip floping Redman and Villareal for awhile. Hopefully the additional work could help Redman get better. It would not bother me to leave Redman in the bullpen as a situational lefty and move Moylan to the long role.

I hope we don’t try to trade with the Cubbies for Carlos Zambrano. What was the line in Bull Durham, a million dollar arm and a 5 cent head? I don’t like his demeanor or his mouth.

I agree that we should be looking for a power armed right hander in trade for Salty and or a middle infield prospect. Someone mentioned a deal with the Tigers of Salty for Robertson and Monroe. That would work even if we had to throw in Diaz or Langerhans.

By Lew

April 27, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Flange-Sorry to hear of your loss, buddy. I know from experience that losing a parent is never a good thing. I agree with you on Zambrano. I think his make up would be adverse to the Braves’ way of doing things.

By Ron

April 27, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Krath, Dude for one thing I never thought you were an idiot, I just disagreed!!! Another thing is you were talkin about Ryan, and others the last 30 years throwing alot of pitches, yes they threw alot back then, and they were use to it. Now they do not throw that many and are not use to. They probably can not even handle 150 pitches in a game without hurting the next start. If the pitchers now pitched back 15-30 years ago and were used to throwing that many pitches, fine, but they cannot, unless of course they start throwing alot in high school, and the minor leagues, but it is now a 7 inning game most of the time for Starting Pitchers!!!

By krath

April 27, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Ron

You’re right in that today’s pitchers are programed (by their routine) for 7 innings. And I also concede that they are programed as well to be out of gas at around 100 pitches whether it comes in the 4th, 7th or 9th.

Not directed at you Ron but just begs to be asked of anyone…..what if a guy is throwing a gem and goes into the 9th at 85 pitches? Does he come out because you have a closer and that’s HIS role….. or does he stay because he still has 15 pitches left?

I don’t know that answer myself. Guess it would depend on the manager.