AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > March > 02 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThe inimitable LaRoche returns
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
We couldn’t make this stuff up if we tried: Adam LaRoche showed up with the Pirates to play his old team Friday wearing No. 96. “First game, forgot my jersey,” he said, unable to keep from laughing.
(LaRoche said he thought he gave the jersey to team equipment managers Thursday before he drove over to stay at his home at Reunion Country Club outside Orlando Thursday night. But anyway, had to happen to him, right?)
So I’m talking to him in the visitors’ clubhouse here at the Disney Empire and we start to head to the field. The tunnel to the visitor’s dugout is directly to the left of the clubhouse door, but LaRoche turns right and starts heading down the long hallway the other direction _ towards the Braves clubhouse.
“You’re kidding, right?” I say to him, figuring he’s playing up the absent-minded thing. “No, I’ve never been over here,” he says innocently.
After I point him in the right direction, we make it to the visitors’ dugout, and the procession starts. One-by-one, then two-by-two, Braves players and coaches come over to hug LaRoche, rub his red beard, ask about his wife and kids, razz him about any and everything.
“This is what you get when you get traded,” shortstop Edgar Renteria says, turning him around to look at the 96 on the back of his black jersey.
(By the way, LaRoche said he’s wearing No. 25 this season, “In honor of Andruw Jones.”)
Pirates PR man Jim “Jimmy T” Trdinich enters the dugout and says he needs to check on numbers, since the Pirates have had a few recent changes. I point out to him that LaRoche also has a new number because he forgot his jersey.
Trdinich glances, smiles, says, “He sure did. And he’s wearing 96. Good job, Adam.”
They love him in Pittsburgh _ his teammates, coaches, manager, and especially the fans. He was a huge hit at FanFest. They’re looking for him to bring some of the Braves’ winning ways to Pittsburgh, to help show the young guys and guys who’ve only been on perennial losing teams, to help show them how to go about things.
“Ol’ Rochy,” as Bobby Cox calls him, says he learned an awful lot watching John Smoltz and Chipper Jones and Andruw Jones and other Braves veterans over the past three years, and said it was a luxury being able to operate “in the shadows” during that time, with those guys deflecting most of the attention.
(Well, until a certain play involving a certain Washington Nationals baserunner and a Braves first baseman last May, after which LaRoche was often front-and-center on Atlanta talk shows and headlines, first for his mistake in not getting to the base in time, then for his three-month hitting surge that propelled him to a .285-32-90 season and a .915 OPS that ranked 10th in the National League.)
Anyway, the Braves were, to a man, thrilled to see him Friday. It’s no exaggeration to say he was as popular in the clubhouse as any player they’ve had in recent years. And LaRoche, who played golf with John Smoltz, Jeff Francoeur and Smoltz pal Tiger Woods recently, said he misses his Braves friends and wishes he could see them more often, but that he’s happy where he’s at.
And you could tell he was being sincere when he said it.
“It’s not a situation where I wish was back over here,” he said. “It’s great to see these guys, but I’m happy where I am now. I really like it in Pittsburgh. So far it’s been awesome. They’re trying to build on last year, keep it going.”
The Braves traded LaRoche and a fringe outfield prospect to Pittsburgh for lefty closer Mike Gonzalez, who’ll be a setup man and part-time closer this year as long as Bob Wickman stays healthy, and top shortstop prospect Brent Lillibridge, who looks 16 but has put up huge numbers in the minors and impressed all the Braves who’ve seen him with his smooth defense.
“I think [the trade] was pretty good for both sides,” LaRoche said, echoing what every Brave I asked said earlier this morning. They all miss LaRoche, but they all like what the addition of Gonzalez means for their bullpen, and most of them seem to believe rookie Scott Thorman will do just fine at first base.
“I’m honestly rooting for Thorman,” LaRoche sid. “I’ve always liked him. I hope he tears it up. I hope they’re not going to start platooning him. I don’t want to see him have to do that at this point of his career.”
As I’ve said a bunch of times, you guys would’ve really dug this guy if you could’ve spent some time with him. As genuine and down-to-earth as they come.
Dawn of a new era: It’s official, the Braves are moving into a new era. Anyone doubting that should see the cover of the new media guide, which was handed to me literally two minutes ago. There are two, and only two, players on the cover. There’s no mention of 14 division titles. Just the logo, the tomahawk, and “2007 Media Guide.”
The two players? Jeff Francoeur and Brian McCann, shaking hands on the field at the end of a win.
They might as well have put “The New Era Is Here” across the top.
Then again, they didn’t really need to. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, right?
We’re finishing off Cash week: Not that every week isn’t Johnny Cash week here at the Braves/Man In Black, but we’ve tried in our small way to appreciate the legend on the week of his 75th birthday. We’ll go a different direction today, with a (very) contemporary song, “Hurt,” he covered and made his own with inimitable voice and style, and a incredibly powerful, emotional video that may never be surpassed in that art form. Seriously, it’s the best music video ever.
It begins and ends with a frail Johnny, leaning on his guitar, sitting at piano, sitting at the head of a table of food, his gnarled hands shaking, at one point his recently deceased wife June looking down on him from the stairs. Interspersed throughout is black-and-white footage of young, vital Johnny performing, aiming his guitar like a rifle, riding the rails, goofing around with June. If you’ve not seen it, you really should. It’s utterly moving.
Rocker Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) said he was at first upset to learn Cash was covering his song. But after hearing the from-the-gut version in Johnny’s gravelly baritone, Reznor said he was humbled and honored.
“HURT” by Trent Reznor
I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that’s real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything
What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar’s chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
The feeling disappears
You are someone else
I am still right here
What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
If I could start again
A million miles away
I would keep myself
I would find a way
Comments
By J-dogg
March 2, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
Graet job DOB. Hope Adam has a great year in Pitt and Gonzy has a great year for us. Trade looks like a winner for both teams.
By sri
March 2, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
nice reading abt rochy.. hope we dont miss him too much..
By kdbanks
March 2, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Enjoyed all the Johnny Cash music this week. Did you ever go to Aces Bar & Grill in Kirkwood for their Johnny Cash night? I’m actually moving over to that area soon, and wondered what the bar/crowd/music was like.
Take care!
kdbanks
By Lew
March 2, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
RobDawg-To answer your question from the last blog-If you truly think that Koufax, Drysdale, et al couldn’t get Guerrero and the like out these days, then Dude, you just don’t have a clue. Back then there were 16 teams, not 30. The stadiums were bigger. There was much more foul territory than today. You mention Dale Berra as an example of a lousy hitter back then. First of all, he played a decade later than what I’m talking about, but why do you think his average was that low? It’s the pitching, stupid (and no that wasn’t a rip on you, personally). Lokk at some of the players today. What about Langerhans .240? In the sixties, that would have translated to below the Mendoza line (which term wasn’t even in use then). No, the reason a .330 BA is so prevalent today, is not because the players from the sixties were so bad, but because most of today’s pitchers couldn’t hold the resin bags of most from the 60’s. Dude, you’re definitely delusional if you believe what you stated. Period.
By eric the elder
March 2, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Hello friends. It’s good to be back - - good to be able to be back. At my age, it’s good to be anywhere.
I’ve enjoyed lurking and soaking up this blog over the off season. These are always the best of times for the blog. Cool heads and warm hearts. Outstanding posts, so much knowledge and lore and history and perspective. You, my friends, are the best.
The snarly stuff is at a minimum in the off season, but I know it will reappear when the real season gets underway. I, for one, am resolved to ignore all the insults and nastiness and just enjoy the game for which I have much passion.
Let’s play ball, boys and girls. Let’s play it fairly and well.
By Hunter
March 2, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, any word about whether or not they’re getting the game in? I hope so, I cleared my DVR and Friday night so that I could watch it.
By Kentavo
March 2, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Is it time yet? I’ve got ESPN on at the office and my boss is gone. There’s even some Coors Light over there in the office fridge. Play ball!!!!!!!!!!!
By Car3boogie
March 2, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
That’s good Stuff.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
March 2, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Kentavo,
Silver Bullet in the fridge, huh? Where do you work, and do they have a job opening? >=-)
By 22oz
March 2, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
Scott Thorman has as much of a chance of not being platooned as i do of making the opening day roster. Welcome to Atlanta, young left handed hitter.
By David O'Brien
March 2, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
We’re playing ball. It’s clear out for now. Smoltz will certainly get in his two innings. Hopefully weather holds off long enough for Gonzalez and Wickman.
By Adam
March 2, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Just read that Kelly Johnson got drilled in the chest from a line drive from Pete Orr while he was practicing turning double plays.
By Matthew
March 2, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Are we playing ball yet? Is that why the blog went dead?
Thanks for the Laroche story, DOB. It’s a shame it had to be Laroche and not Giles and Reitsma. Can you imagine this team with Roachy and Gonzo? Anyway, I hope Adam hits 40 homers in PIT, and that the Braves meet them in the NLCS (us winning of course). Good luck Adam!
Go Braves!
By N8
March 2, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
WOW!
Smoltz looks to be in mid-season form.
Of course throwing those offspeed breaking balls at the minor leagures is about as fair as Michael Jordan showing up at the YMCA youth league taking it to the youngsters. LOL!
Brings a smile to my face.
By rammerjammer
March 2, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the article on Adam. Really sounds like a cool, regular guy. So does Gonzalez (Gonzo? Gonzy?). A couple of super class acts.
By N8
March 2, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Anybody else out there think that Diaz’s little “rock back” at the plate as he’s getting ready for the pitch is reminiscent of Bob Horner?
LOVE IT!
By Eric from MO
March 2, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Look hitters are better today. They are stronger and in better shape. Thats not because of steroids but because in the offseason they work out and lift. Back in the day all the players had to work to make ends meet. With that being said Pitchers also arent as good and more importantly the stadiums are super small. My High School baseball field is bigger than the Phillies.
By DonCoburleone
March 2, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
Athletes today in ANY sport (meaning hitters, pitchers, running backs, lineman, forwards, goalies… anything) are bigger, faster, stronger than athletes 20, 30, 40, or 100 years ago. Now I’m not saying that Sandy Koufax and Drysdale and Gibson couldn’t get out todays hitters and be successful in todays game, but to say that pitchers back then were so much better than pitchers today is a joke! Pitchers simply had a much bigger advantage 30 or 40 years ago than they do today. No hitters regularly worked out and made themselves stronger during the offseason. Studying pitchers by watching tape wasn’t around back then either(and don’t say pitchers watch tape now today too, cuz I know they do, but they don’t benefit nearly as much from that as hitters do). Hitters today are stronger, in better shape, and more prepared for every AB. Plus, parks are much smaller today than 40 years ago so naturally the offensive stats are going to be deflated… Bottom line, for example, Johan Santana is every bit as good (if not better) than Sandy Koufax was…
By Eric from MO
March 2, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
Well Thorman isnt going to be platooned so I guess in a month I will know who you are 22oz. Let me guess you are Kyle Davies. No wait Kelly Johnson.
By Armstrong
March 2, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
Hey does anyone know of a website online that I can listen to the game for free??? Ive got DSL so it should be able to pull it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
By rammerjammer
March 2, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
That media guide cover tells me not to count on AJ or Smoltz beyond this season.
By N8
March 2, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
Saw that knucklball coming on the first pitch to LaRoche.
Aswesome.
Gotta love the ribbing from Smoltz as Roche walked off the field.
Gary Thorne, Kruk (who happens to be sporting the “soul glow” look today), and Steve Phillips were just laughing at LaRoche for forgetting his jersey.
Aaaah! Spring is here.
MAN does Smoltz have the slider working today. Save some of them for April John.
By michael
March 2, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the kind word on yesterday’s post. You’ll be happy to know the goats and the doublewide survived intact. Actually they’re not my goats.
Enjoyed today’s story about Davies and the blog on LaRoche. I remember when John Smoltz had his crisis of confidence way back when. You’re dead on it concerning the Cash video. Gives you a feel for the arc of the man’s life and the starkness of death, all that. Powerful stuff.
According to accuweather.com, the rain will start at 4 p.m. but its supposed to clear by 6 p.m. Rain returns at around 10 p.m.
By 22oz
March 2, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
Can’t wait to watch the tape when i get home from work!
By 22oz
March 2, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
i think Pete may have hit that ball at Kelly on purpose. ah, you gotta love competition.
By David O'Brien
March 2, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
Smoltz was sharp for two innings _ three strikeouts, 23 pitches, 19 strikes _ and gave up one hit, a two-out sinking liner to right that Francoeur turned from a single into a triple when he dove for it in the gap and the ball landed a few inches in front of his glove and rolled to near the warning track.
By Lew
March 2, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
DonC-You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but after almost 50 years of watching baseball, Sandy Koufax is the best I ever saw. Hands down. Yes, there are some good pitchers today. Clemens, Smoltz and yes, probably Santana (though it’s much too early to tell) as well as several others like Maddux, Randy Johnson and Pedro in his prime, would probably be successful in any era. But unless you really saw Gibby, Marichal and Koufax pitch in their prime (and even then), you’ll never convince me of that point of view. If the hitters of today really had to worry about Gibson putting a 97 MPH fastball in their ear, their approach would not be as confident as they are now. Anybody today comes close to brushing back a hitter and both teams get out on the field and pretend to fight each other. Back then, you dusted yourself off and took the next pitch. Players today may be stronger, but they don’t have as much in the way of pitching to deal with, either.
By Lew
March 2, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Oh Yeah-Smoltz is nasty today.
By N8
March 2, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
WOW.
What a throw by Andruw.
My oh My!
By David O'Brien
March 2, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
Andruw just made a perfect throw home from shallow center to nail a dude trying to score from second on a single, which would’ve been first run if he hadn’t gotten him.
By kdbanks
March 2, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
When will people learn not to run on Andruw?
By N8
March 2, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this
Well. I guess that throw is why Andruw is one of the reasons Andruw is so good, and that foul ball, is why Diaz might be a liability in LF (defensively). That was a nice bit of hustling on the foul/fly, but that could’ve turned out bad for Diaz, running into the wall like that.
Take it easy guys.
By John Adcox
March 2, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
It sounds like McBride is getting hit hard. Is that the case? Of course, no runs scored, so the hits don’t matter….
By RP
March 2, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
At Work!! does anyone know if the game is on the web? in any form! please help!
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
So glad to be watching ball today.
Lew: When was the mound changed. I know it was, but don’t recall the date. It changed in height. That affected hitters and batters dramatically.
Koufax was amazing. Just mind blowing. I read once that his ERA was around 1 run lower than the league average during his prime years. Maddux’s ERA during his prime years was about 2.00 runs lower than league average. Craziness indeed.
All my statements on Santos are not meant to be taken as me saying he wasn’t good. It’s just that I don’t think it is unfathomable that he isn’t in the Hall. I never saw the man play. But looking at his numbers, even compared to players of his day, it doesn’t look like he was the best of his day. He was good though.
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
What a play Pena!
By braveheart
March 2, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
was it 1967 or 1968? i think it was right after gibson’s 1.12
By David O'Brien
March 2, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Just realized you all are watching yourselves, or at least providing color for those not, so I’ll stop with that and get to work on my Smoltz story. The one day I don’t need to provide commentary, since some of you good folks can help out the others not at their TVs.
DONC, you wrote: “Bottom line, for example, Johan Santana is every bit as good (if not better) than Sandy Koufax was…”
That party from a couple nights ago must still be going, my friend. You just said Santana was as good or better than arguably the best pitcher of my lifetime, certainly the best over a span of 5-6 years.
Actually, take a look at Koufax stats in his final four seasons. Nothing comparable in the modern era, and nothing ever will be. Unbelievably dominant.
By ncscoots
March 2, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
TPaul, think it was 69, the year after Gibson’s microscopic ERA. Least I think that was 68.
By Thrillhouse44
March 2, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this
Man, I’m jealous of you guys that get to watch the game…Glad Smoltz looked good. Is KJ okay? Did he end up playing?
By KC
March 2, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
LEW: Are you telling us that Koufax was better than the early-mid 90’s Greg Maddux? Hard to imagine anyone being any better than he was over that span.
By N8
March 2, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
John Adcox
IMO, McBride is doing what he has ALWAYS done, since we’ve seen him play at the big league level:
Looks good against lefties and not so good against the righies.
If he doesn’t eventually find a pitch that will CONSISTANTLY get righties out, he will be relegated to bullpen duty as a “lefty specialist” for the entirety of his career. Of course there is nothing wrong with that, many people have had LONG careers in that roll. How’s the old saying go?
“If you throw lefthanded and have a pulse, there’s a job for you on a big league club”.
Not a good stretch (comitted too soon) by Thorman on a “nice” play by Pena in the hole. Would’ve been bang/bang anyhow, but LaRoche probably makes that play. That’s why fielding percentage of the 1B is misleading, IMO. It’s not the plays that the 1B makes where HE doesn’t commit an error, it’s the errors (I believe it was ruled a hit, but you get the point), that the 1B can save the OTHER INFIELDERS.
By kdbanks
March 2, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
Home Run Frenchy!
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
Nice Francoeur. And then Thor… just hustles down the line. I love it!
By Lew
March 2, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
Good play by a fan on that Francoeur laser beam. Barehanded catch on the fly. That looked like one of Sheffield’s rocket shots. Got out quick.
By Greg in TN
March 2, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
Greetings folks…
DOB, Great stuff on LaRoche having to wear a defensive lineman’s number at the game today. Had to smile at that and Smoltzie’s knuckler to him.
I’ll wade back into the HOF debate, especially in terms of differences between eras. You can’t get to the bigs without being good. That is true whether it’s 1937, 1977 or 2007. Would a 1937 journeyman outfielder be able to sniff the bigs if he got into Dr. Emmitt Brown’s DeLorian? I don’t think he would.
My point is this… Great players are timeless. If Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Lou Gehrig, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Warren Spahn and other HOF’ers showed up to the ballpark one night instead of the Devil Rays, I think they hold their own. These guys would have to make some adjustments to how the game is played in terms of the height of the mound and things like that, but these are the guys that could make that adjustment, even back in their day.
By kdbanks
March 2, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
Gonzo in now…pitching the 6th.
By kdbanks
March 2, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this
And walks the first batter he sees.
By Salty
March 2, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this
Nice catch by the ‘yellow-shirted’ left-fielder…hmmm…can he hit, though?
I’ll take Koufax and Gibson, even on the lowered mound. I’ll take Guidry in his prime, and Maddux. Who needs a 5th starter…heck, who needs a bullpen, beyond a Rollie or a Goose? Game’s over…IMO!
By kdbanks
March 2, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
And gives up a 2-run homer.
By eric the elder
March 2, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
Gonzo: high, high, high. Looks like he might be tipping the breaking ball, too. Rough outing.
By Lew
March 2, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
TenPaul-All I can say is that Santo was considered to be the class of 3Bmen when I was growing up.The only others that compared to him was Ken Boyer of the Cards, who won a batting title and several years later when Richie Allen came along in 64. Most of the others, like Clete Boyer, were more great fielders than great hitters. Hell, back then your shortstop was EXPECTED to hit .225-245. Now I know he was a 3B, but still the criteria were different back then. The common perception at the time was that Santo was one of the best. What can I say? Shaun-Please don’t quote me stats and whatnot. If you had seen Koufax pitch on a regular basis, you would also say he was the best you had seen. The 60’s were a pitcher’s era, whatever the reason (I think the mound was lowered after only one player, Yaz, I think, was the only .300 hitter for a season-67), and Koufax was widely acknowledged to be the best of his era. You’ve got to realize that this was when Gibson, Marichal, Gaylord Perry, Tom Seaver, Drysdale, Sutton, Jenkins-were all in their prime. Koufax, for a four year period was unbelievable. Four no hitters including a perfect game in four years. The only reason he didn’t win 300 was that his arthritis got so bad, he had to retire. He was unhittable. DonC-You talk about the strength of today’s players. Do you really think no one lifted weights before? If they had the technology available, I’m sure they would have studied film. Think Zapruder, Dude. That was the current technology available in the 60’s-a Brownie 35mm video camera. That was it. Period. What you’re saying is on par with saying that we know more about baseball than our grandfathers, because we watch televison. Look at pictures of Ted Klezewski of the Reds, or Roger Maris. Those dudes were big and ripped. Look at the size and strength of Frank Howard or Frank Robinson and then talk to me about strength. I did an interview with Mike Schmidt in 1980 where he talked about training with the Nautilus system Let’s not go to where the current players got so strong. It was the advent of elliptical trainers, right?
By N8
March 2, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
KC
I was thinking the same thing, in regards to Maddux vs. Koufax.
In the era of hitters, small ballparks, and steroid allegations, it’s hard to imagine ANYBODY being more dominant (as compared to the league average) than Maddux was in the early 90’s. Especially 94 & 95 (even though they were both strike shortened years).
Having said that, before DOB and other guys that saw Koufax pitch (I did not), rip on me for being naive, I’m not going to try and compare players from different eras. All I’m doing is stating what DOB just stated, which is:
In MY LIFETIME, nobody has been more dominant over a 4 or 5 year period than Greg Maddux. Of course one could argue that Clemens and Randy Johnson have had equal (if not greater success) than Maddux had.
btw: for those not watching the game, who will read it in the box score later. The 2 Run HR that Gonzalez gave up was VERY wind aided (in the Wrigley Field varity). So don’t hit the panic button, LOL!
Gregor Blanco just lead off with a walk. Let’s see if he can manufacture something here.
By don
March 2, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
BNoy, I loved your reference to the “fringe outfielder” and the “top shortstop prospect”. You are really a homer. I saw the “tsp” last year playing against Myrtle Beach. He clearly isn’t a “tsp” by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, he seemed rather old to be in Class A.
By kdbanks
March 2, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
Hoping I’m not rousing any feathers with the Gonzo comments…I’m sure he’s just working on his pitches, location, etc., and not concerned with who he’s facing or what they’re looking for.
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Out of Nowhere it’s Jurries. Tie game.
By N8
March 2, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Hmmm.
We have a James Jurries sighting. LOL!
Nice job by Prado picking up the RBI on the previous AB, going down to take a breaking ball up the middle for a hit. Didn’t try to do too much with it.
By Lew
March 2, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
If Jurries has a great spring, what a fly in the ointment that would be.
By David O'Brien
March 2, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
If the Braves played all their games in Central Florida, perhaps James Jurries would be a star. The dude is a spring-training slugger _ even when he’s in minor league camp and only invited over for the day. His double just tied it 3-3.
By Novice Ned
March 2, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
What’s the fielding story on Johnson? Anything hit his way yet? And has he had a chance to turn a doubkle play yet in the past 2 games?
By Lew
March 2, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this
Sorry Shaun-That was actually KC who asked about Koufax /Maddux.
By Lew
March 2, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Don’t get me wrong here. If I has to have an all time staff, both Koufax and Maddux would be on it. But the had completely different styles and approaches. Maddux would fool you whereas Koufax made you look like a little leaguer. He would dominate you. His fastball was much faster than Maddux’s and his curve was an abslute killer. He was capable of pitching a no hitter any time he pitched and the times he didn’t pitch no hitters a one or two hitter was always more than a possibility. He was ungodly good.
By DonCoburleone
March 2, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this
“That party from a couple nights ago must still be going, my friend. You just said Santana was as good or better than arguably the best pitcher of my lifetime, certainly the best over a span of 5-6 years. Actually, take a look at Koufax stats in his final four seasons. Nothing comparable in the modern era, and nothing ever will be. Unbelievably dominant.”
I agree the numbers were dominant, and I don’t doubt that Koufax may have been the best pitcher of all time; BUT, you have to admit that hitters during that time (overall, not specific individual players) were smaller, weaker, and less prepared than hitters today. And, that ballparks were much larger back then, leading to much better statistics by pitchers…
By Lew
March 2, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Nathan and KC-Let’s put it like this. A batter, after walking back to the dugout after Maddux getting him out might say “Damn, how did I miss that pitch.” After Koufax getting him out would say “Damn, there’s no way anyone will EVER hit that pitch.” They both got you out, but one made you look sick.
By Lew
March 2, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
DonC-What you say about stadium size and other peripherals is true, for the most part, but don’t you think that the hitters from today’s teams benefit by having smaller stadiums and access to more than Dexies? It works both ways. The pitchers from today OVERALL are not as good. They can’t be. In the 60’s (which I don’t really even see as being the greatest era, if, indeed, there is one) there were 16 teams, whereas today there are 30. That does dilute the pitching talent somewhat. Back then, an ERA over 3 was considered terrible and an average of .285 was good. Not so today on either front. It really is difficult to compare players of different eras, but Koufax was exceptional in every era.
By AstoriaMetsFan
March 2, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Regarding Koufax - park and the size of the players are irrelevant when discussing Koufax. What made him so dominant is the fact that his stuff was so good the hitters never were able to put a good swing on the ball, if they were even able to make contact. Hitters were helpless in the box. Koufax would paint the corners with a 95 mph fastball then finish you off with a slow, knee buckling curvethat the hitters could not do anything with.
By Russell
March 2, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Catching the tail end of our ST game and is it just my imagination or is Moylan using a different arm slot than last year?
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
Sheeeesh. You weren’t kidding DOB. Lillibridge looks like he’s 10 years old.
By journalist jimmy smith
March 2, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
this is fun, isn’t it? there are some players in camp. hope bobby picks the right ones. what happens if jurries shines? again. oh, the humanity! what if harris continues to look good at 2b? yes, there are some players in camp. escobar hit the ball hard in the 9th - the guy made a good play. oh, the humanity! extra innings!
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
Lew: Let’s put it this way. In, I think, 1996 the WS vs the Yankees. The home plate ump was calling the game Maddux was pitching. After it was done he said: Now I understand what every one has been talking about.
By N8
March 2, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
When the pitchers are looking down, I actually LOVE the “look” of the new ST caps. Because from that angle you can’t see the red “stripes” on the side (Braves players are right, that is ABSOLUTELY hidious).
I’ve never been a big fan of the red on the brim of the Braves caps. Often wondered why they don’t go with a solid blue hat, with the white “A” on the front.
Oh well.
By woogidy
March 2, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Yea,Good thing is for Lillibridge, if he ever had a carrer ending injury, he could be a decoy on NBC’s “To Catch A Predator” show.
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
Excellent! GO BRAVES
By N8
March 2, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this
Shaun
Is it you that STILL insists that an out is an out, is an out????
Hard to imagine the winning run scoring on that play if Prado DOESN’T MAKE CONTACT and strikes out. Huh?
Just giving you a hard time man. But I can’t EXPLAIN to you (and anybody else) who doesn’t get it, how much making contact is NOT A BAD THING.
I get your point about “avoiding” outs rather than the kind of outs you make, but I will still contest that it’s hard to get a basehit if you can’t HIT THE BALL consistantly.
Kind of like the old saying referring to a base stealer that can’t get on base: “you can’t steal 1B”.
L8R man.
By 10-7-4
March 2, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Lew—Koufax is by far the best I ever saw. Once, late in the season, during a hot pennant race, with the Cardinals, an obnoxious fan leaned over the railing and shouted-“hey ya bums, the Cards got 3 in the 2nd with Gibson pitching”. Drysdale, stuck his head out and retorted, “so what, we got 1 in the 1st with Koufax pitching”. I think that this kind of summed it all up. If they scored at all, game pretty much over.
By Honey
March 2, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Shaun Santo,
Honey, I just love your logical, objective mind
You think it’s dangerous to say if Player x wasn’t voted in in 1977, he isn’t good enough to be voted in in 2007. What if some new, overwhelming evidence is found that says Player x should be in the Hall?
That’s good thinking!! I never saw player X play but your’re right honey, he should be inducted without a vote for being so good that he could keep the evidence hidden all this time.
Who said we can’t define the Babe or the Dutchman as Hall of Fame players? He’s a dummy, whoever he is. It’s okay honey, cause they’re already in! But it is dangerous to use them in defining Hall of Famers cause then the hall would be almost empty.
Shaun honey, what is a true historian? What is a false historian?
You got some good points honey but don’t go gettin too familiar using using “our” when you’re talkin about yourself. No, I wouldn’t agree that “our” knowledge of the game has increased over time. Yours has mine hain’t cause I used to more bout it than I do now and you are just now learning from the experts and true historians.
I’m impressed! You’re a boy of many talents. Honey, this is good stuff: “don’t you think we have more knowledge now as to what a HOFer is than we did 20, 30, 40 years ago?”.
Now that is funny. If you want people to take you serious, the you’ve got to be serious. Otherwise, folks will think you’re a journalist!
By tp
March 2, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
i don’t agree with anyone who says maddux doesn’t/didn’t have hall-of-fame caliber, dominant stuff. the movement on his change-up is/was absurd. a cut fastball that rivals mariano rivera’s (minus the velocity). remember too - he threw these pitches at various speeds - even during the same at-bat.
you can out-think hitters all you want, but you don’t win 300 games in the major leagues without dominant stuff.
By RP
March 2, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
In 2000, there were roughly 44 million males aged 15-44 in this country. I realize this is a broad spec of datum, but it is a reasonable baseball age, at least as a point of general comparison. In 1960, there was less than 35 million.
16 teams, 35 million; 32 teams, 44 million plus a vastly expanded role for our own african-american population, plus an even more significant influx from south and central america, and to a much lesser extent japan. it’s not perfect, but i would have to say dillution of the talent pool is a much smaller factor than many would like to believe
By Head Coach
March 2, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
For those of you who didn’t get to see the game , Braves win 5-4 in ten.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
March 2, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
My wife just called me at work and told me the Braves won. That’s good news to me: Not that the we won, but that in less than one year of marriage, my wife has become a big enough fan to watch a whole spring training game without me there, making her watch it. WOO HOO!!!
That is unless she’s not watching it by herself. Wait a damn minute. I don’t have internet at home so let me see, who was not blogging during the game…..GRINCH!!!!
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
That umpire was talking about an 86 pitch game Maddux tossed.
Maddux threw a stunning 4-1 complete game in the first game of a doubleheader on July 22, 1997 in which he threw only 76 pitches, 63 for strikes.
Baseball Hall of Famer Wade Boggs said of Maddux, “It seems like he’s inside your mind with you. When he knows you’re not going to swing, he throws a straight one. He sees into the future. It’s like he has a crystal ball hidden inside his glove.” Dwight Gooden once commended Maddux, saying, “You wish there was another league he could get called up to.” Joe Morgan once said that “Greg Maddux could put a baseball through a Life Saver.” Maddux was also remarkable for the late movement on his pitches, which, combined with his superb command, made him one of the most effective groundball pitchers in history.
Maddux’s best season was likely in 1995 when he finished 19-2 with an incredible 1.63 ERA in a year when the overall National League ERA was 4.23. In the strike-shortened 1994 season, he had an even lower ERA of 1.56, the best single-season ERA among currently active pitchers, which compared even more favorably to the NL in that year (4.26).
Since the introduction of the live-ball era in 1920, there have only been five pitchers to have full-season ERAs under 1.65: Luis Tiant and Bob Gibson in the anomalous 1968 season, Dwight Gooden in 1985, and Greg Maddux, twice (1994 and 1995).
And this one I found…
During the construction of the Olympic Stadium in Atlanta, which was converted into Turner Field after the 1996 Summer Olympics, the Braves front office challenged the golden trio of Braves starters (Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz) to win the World Series in 1995 by saying that if they did, a putting green would be installed in the locker room at Turner Field.
Is this true? Is there a putting green in the locker room?
By Arkansas Hillbilly
March 2, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this
Or Tomahawkin’,
I better not find a foam tomahawk or two empty keg cups at my house when I get home…. =-)
By woogidy
March 2, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
Can’t get enough of how young Lillibridge looks. Click on this. It is worth it!
By RC
March 2, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this
TennPaul: There is indeed a putting green in the locker room. Got to take a locker room tour during winter fan fest…the wallpaper around it is a picture of one of the greens at Augusta National, I think the 18th.
By Braves fan 202
March 2, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
Man i wish i couldve seen the game, its ok i taped it and ill see it later. Sounds like they’re startin off good
By ncscoots
March 2, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this
Oh, man, just looked at the box…how can any self-respecting GM have a pitcher named “Sharpless”? LOL
I’m betting he has intangibles! Ha! :-)
By N8
March 2, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
woogidy
Nice link. Last time I checked the official site, his photo wasn’t up yet. Thanx.
btw: I loved him in “Home Alone”! LOL!
Good god, he looks like he’s 11.
By Carroll
March 2, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
Lew: If Koufax made you look sick, then Maddux made you look plain stupid.
By David O'Brien
March 2, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
AstoriaMetsFan, you said it best on Koufax at 3:22. Devastating stuff, heat and a knee-buckling curve, and could absolutely paint the corners. None better. Ever.
Yes, Lillibridge will be carded until he’s 45. Or older.
By David O'Brien
March 2, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
And don’t stress over Gonzalez, folks. It was his first outing since AUGUST, remember, because he missed the last five weeks with elbow tendinitis.
he said that’s all he was thinking about today, and was greatly relieved that it felt great. he’s had no problems with it all spring, but wanted to pitch in game conditions for that next test.
he’ll be fine, i’d bet. Also, after the game, Wickman offered unsolicited a comment about how he’ll be happy setting up or closing, said when the bell rings he hopes he’s closing, but if not, he don’t mind setting up at all.
Sounds to me like he’s thought about it or talked about it, or just knows it’s possible. I still expect him to break camp as the closer, but who knows what could happen by summer.
By Keith
March 2, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
I read somewhere that Koufax tipped all his pitches. So, the majority of batters knew what was coming and were STILL helpless. That is good stuff.
By Bobby Dews
March 2, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this
DOB, Way to not take any $hit from the guys at ESPN that came into the press box and tried to open the windows. You’re a unique rebel!
By Head Coach
March 2, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this
Watching the fifth inning and Francoeur was irritating and exhilarating all at once. He , as usual swings like a madman at a first pitch off speed offering and misses by a mile. Then the second pitch is a fastball and he pounds it over the fence in left and a fan makes a nice barehanded catch. Francoeur is going to drive me crazy all season. Good thing Lillibridge isn’t going to make the team yet , can you imagine him trying to get past security at every big league park ? Hey I’m a player , I am , really. Look at my ID ! Yea right kid , your going straight back to your mommy !
By N8
March 2, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
WOW.
Wickman just continues to impress me both on and OFF the field, DOB.
Seems like a true class act, team guy.
Simply AMAZING in this day and age of “me first” athletes.
DOB
Do you personally know Woody Paige? I’m watching “Around the Horn” on ESPN, and I really get a kick out of his humor and “energy”. Seems like a character, if you ask me.
By Catfish
March 2, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
DOB: Listening to Buck and Kincade here on 680 Fan. Buck said you got a little “testy” in the press box when an ESPN-type came in before the game opening windows. Said you were hard at work with papers spread out that would blow all over the pb if he opened the windows. The ESPN guy responded to your complaint with the explanation: “That’s why God gave you elbows”. Buck said you were ready to “throw down” and get after him :>)
Both gave you a big compliment - said you were the hardest working guy down there and you were the first thing they checked daily during baseball season.
‘fish
By tim- braves lifer
March 2, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
watched the game today and it was nice to see Francoeur go deep. He and Mcann may have to share the nl mvp! a guy can dream!
By Wayne in UT
March 2, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
Compare Wickman to Baez:
The Ballad of Danys
Last year we needed some pitchin’ Went to the Dodgers a itchin’ We sent them a decent young feller Got one we thought might be better. When he left here last fall, Said he wanted the ball, Now he sits in the nineth a twitchin’.
Now I gotta write one for Wicky….
By Jared
March 2, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
The homerun Gonzalez gave up looked like it wouldn’t have even reached the warning track at Turner Field. I think Gonzalez will be the Braves best relief pitcher in 2007, above both Wickman and Soriano.
I thought O’Brein wasn’t suppose to be on the radio until after 6:00.
By Robert
March 2, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this
“Actually, take a look at Koufax stats in his final four seasons. Nothing comparable in the modern era, and nothing ever will be.”
If you look at ERA vs league ERA, then Pedro 1997-2000 actually outdoes Koufax by quite a ways, and Maddux 1992-1998 equals him but goes almost twice as long
Not to say Koufax’s 4 year run wasnt awesome
Maddux’s 94 and 95 rank up in the top 12 or so all-time years. The travesty of the strike was that the peak years of one of the best pitchers of all time were not truly complete
Best season all-time still has to be Gibson in 1968. 34 starts, 28 complete games 304.2 innings, 1.12 ERA. And the dude LOST 9 games on a WS team. That’s dominance. Different game before the mound change, but dominence
By MS
March 2, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
Go DOB! I love how you got on Kinkade for dogging Andruw.
By N8
March 2, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
DOB when you are on the radio, can one access that online?
What station? How often are you on?
By Scott
March 2, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this
Braves looked really good today, especially Smoltz who was NASTY and Francouer looked good too.
I have a question though, how come James Jurries isn’t in the running for the first base job? He’s looked good for a couple of years in the minors now and should get a shot.
By Lew
March 2, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
Everyone can make up their own minds on who is better between Maddux and Koufax, but I wanted to quantify this for those of you who never saw Koufax pitch. In the five years between 1962-66, Koufax went 14-7, 25-5, 19-5, 26-8, and 27-9. His ERA’s over those five seasons were 2.54 (3.63), 1.88 (3.02), 1.74 (3.25), 2.04 (3.26), and 1.73 (3.28). League ERA’s are in parenthesis. He struck out 1454 batters in these five years!!! This includes season totals of 216, 306, 223, 382, and 317. He struck out over 300 three times people. One year he came within striking range of 400 K!!!! In this time he walked only 316 batters. That’s almost a 5 to 1 K/BB over five years. He had 110 complete games during this time and had 33 shutouts. He had four no hitters in these five years (none in 1962), including a perfect game against the Cubs. Now you can argue however you want about who is or is not better, but I seriously doubt ANYONE was this totally dominant during a similar stretch.
By tim
March 2, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
Dave-Thanks for the food suggestions the other day, we ended up driving into Winter Park to an old neighborhood funky place called Dandelion Cafe..Good respite from the corporate crap around here…Really enjoyed the games the last 3 days too….So Wickman is trimmed down? Then of course he shall become Slim Wickman…
By Lew
March 2, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this
To add just a bit more. In those five years, Koufax was 111-34. That’s an average of 22 wins a year. During this time, he was also fighting progressive arthritic degeneration in his pitching elbow and was forced to retire after a 27 win season. Also, during these years, his innings pitched were 184, 311, 223, 335, and 323. No one comes vaguely close to 300 IP anymore. Throwing 200 is considered a benchmark. Thank you. That’s all. Talk among yourselves.
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this
1962-66 3.20+ League ERAs. What a time that was. I doubt we’ll ever see League ERAs that low for that long of time. All that time Koufax kept his ERA a little over a run below the league average. He was good no doubt.
On December 3, 1968, the Baseball Rules Committee voted to lower the height of the pitching mound from fifteen to ten inches and to require that all pitching mounds be sloped gradually so that pitchers will not appear to be firing from a steep cliff to the batter below. The pitcher has more leverage on a higher mound while the greater angle produced from the higher mound makes it more difficult to hit the ball squarely.
Like you said Lew, comparing eras… Maddux was never a strike out pitcher. That’s why he could throw 70 pitch games.
By StingerSplash
March 2, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this
Trent Reznor upset (initially) that the Man was going to cover his song? Reznor can’t carry John Cash’s guitar strap. You, sir, are no Mr. Cash. By the way - watching baseball in the sunshine on a Friday afternoon? I’m jealous.
By TennesseePaul
March 2, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this
No one comes vaguely close to 300 IP anymore. Throwing 200 is considered a benchmark.
Lew, I think this has more to do with management and owner protection of investment than anything else. From what I hear, a lot of these guys would love to stay out there and pitch as long as they could. Livan Hernandez throws forever when he’s allowed. But this is a different time. Koufax wasn’t an 18 million dollar a year investment. But again, comparing eras…
By Wayne in UT
March 2, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this
DOB I have been curious about an older Cuban prospect named Francisley Bueno. He is 25-26 years old and supposedly a flame throwing lefty starter. I was wondering if this player being older might be more seasoned, and possibly on the radar screen.
Thanks for any info….
By Lew
March 2, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
TenPaul-Like I said, it was a pitching era. There were a bunch of other greats which helped keep that league ERA down. Hell, Drysdale was only a number two starter. Gibson, Marichal, Fergie Jenkins (who repeatedly won 20 at Wrigley), Gaylord Perry, Seaver-there were so many great pitchers. When Maddux did his 1.54 ERA, I would almost bet no one came vaguely close. In the 60’s there were people like Gibby going one year with a 1.10 ERA. It was unbelievable by today’s standards. You’re likely right-it won’t happen again soon-if ever.
By N8
March 2, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this
Lew cool stats on Koufax.
I’m not sure ANYBODY can argue with how dominant that he was during that stretch. But I was gonna try. LOL!
I compared the numbers of Koufax from 62-66 to Maddux of 92-96.
Strangely they are incredibly similar. The majority of the difference in the “numbers” between the two, can be explained by the ammounts of starts that Koufax (in the