AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2007 > January > 18 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMeet the new ‘pen. Not same as the old ‘pen.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
From eyesore to showpiece. From glaring weakness to formidable strength. From “pass the Mylanta” to “turn out the lights.”
That’s what the Braves have done with their bullpen this winter. They’ve transformed a rag-tag unit that sucked life out of last season’s team with its repeated meltdowns into a bullpen that, at least on paper, looks as good as any in the National League.
It’s not a stretch to say it also looks as potentially overpowering as any in Atlanta Braves history, after the Wednesday trade that brought hard-throwing lefty Mike Gonzalez from Pittsburgh in exchange for Adam LaRoche.
Judging from the first 500 or so responses on a blog the AJC posted for fan comments on the trade, reaction seemed fairly split down the middle, with opinions ranging from the far reaches of both extremes _ “Unbelievably bad trade,” one said; “We fleeced the Pirates,” said another.
The fact is, it’s too early to judge this trade. Like most trades, it’ll take time to see whether LaRoche builds on his breakout .285-32-90 season and becomes a consistent 35-40 homer guy, a streaky .270 hitter who strikes out too much in the clutch, or something in-between. Whether Gonzalez establishes himself as a consistent dominant setup man and heir-apparent closer, or if last year’s elbow problems were an alarming harbinger, or something in-between.
I do know the Braves are going to miss his excellent glovework, and that the traditionally strong Braves infield defense could take a big step back in 2007.
Think about it _ the right side of the infield might feature second baseman Kelly Johnson, who’s never played that position at any level, and Thorman, who’s a bigger target than LaRoche, but doesn’t scoop balls as smoothly or have a 90-mph fastball to start double plays better than most any other first baseman. The “hot corner” has Chipper trying to stay healthy.
I didn’t think the Braves should do the LaRoche trade unless they got two immediate-impact guys from the Pirates, not just Gonzalez but also either center fielder Chris Duffy or one of their top young starting pitchers.
But while they didn’t get one of those guys who could help this year’s team, the Braves did get a top prospect, shortstop Brent Lillibridge, 23, a five-tool player the Braves think could be playing shortstop or second base and batting leadoff for them in a couple of years.
Lillibridge, a former University of Washington star (that’s why he’s older than most low-minors prospects) had a breakout year of his own, batting .305 with eight triples, 13 home runs, 71 RBIs and 53 stolen bases in 65 attempts while splitting the 2006 season between two Class-A Pirates minor league affiliates.
I talked to a scout who said his defensive skills are even better than his offense, that he has a plus-arm, great range and quickness, and plays hard. We’ll see, but sounds like this guy could compete for a job as soon as a year from now, depending how he does this season in Double-A.
But getting back to the bullpen….
No National League team blew as many saves as the Braves (29) last season, and the only NL bullpen with a higher total of hits and walks allowed than Atlanta (763) was Chicago (785).
Considering the fact that Cubs relievers had a 4.04 ERA and an impressive ratio of 553 strikeouts to 255 walks, while the Braves had a 4.39 ERA with 383 strikeouts and 248 walks, the Atlanta ‘pen was statistically worse than the one on Chicago’s North Side.
In fact, by most measures Atlanta’s bullpen was among the worst two or three relief corps in the National League, ranking right down there with the tiny-payrolled Marlins (16-28 record and 4.67 ERA by relievers) and Brewers (league-high 5.00 ERA and 29 losses by relievers).
Schuerholz, at some point, decided there was no way, no how, he was going to allow a repeat in 2007. If the Braves were to lose the division again, it wouldn’t be because of blown leads.
When some of you saw that the LaRoche/Gonzalez deal was done Wednesday (actually it won’t be finalized until they pass physicals, with no announcement expected until Friday or even Saturday), you immediately speculated it must be part of some bigger plan.
Some of you figured _ or read the speculation on other websites _ that the Braves got Gonzalez only so they could “flip” him to the Yankees or Devil Rays (we love to obsess over Rocco and Crawford here … Hey, I’m guilty for fueling much of the Baldelli talk a while back).
While I’m not entirely ruling out the possibility, I was assured today by a Braves person I trust that they got Gonzalez to keep him in their bullpen, to make their bullpen a monster that will help reduce most games to 6-7 innings next season. Not to flip him to another team.
The dude is flat-out dominant. Converted 24-of-24 saves last year, totaled 64 strikeouts (with
31 walks) in 54 innings, and allowed only 42 hits and one homer. Opponents hit .213 with a .325 OBP and miniscule .259 slugging percentage against him, including .163/.265/.256 by lefty batters.
In 25 games after June 25, Gonzalez had a 1.07 ERA and .143 opponents’ average in 25 games, with 12 hits, 14 walks and 35 strikeouts in 25-1/3 innings.
They worked him hard in that stretch and he developed tendinitis in his elbow, but a postseason MRI and another exam since then have showed no structural damage and he says he’s been throwing without any pain. The Braves are surely looking at it closely today during his physical, just to make sure.
His numbers really are staggering. Going back to April 16, 2005, Gonzalez has a 2.18 ERA, 2.02 ERA and 27-for-27 saves in his past 99 appearances. And in his past 60, he’s got a 1.91 ERA with 73 strikeouts and one homer allowed in 61-1/3 innings.
Instead of pushing guys like Smoltz, Hudson and Davies to go an extra inning or two some nights for fear of a bullpen meltdown, the Braves and Bobby Cox should be able to preserve the starters now. No need to be heroes in June by pitching a complete game when you’ve already thrown 110 pitches after 7 or 8 innings and you’ve got that trio of studs in the bullpen.
And no need to have 38-year-old closer Bob Wickman pitch three consecutive nights when you’ve got Gonzalez to slip into the closer role whenever you need to.
Not to mention how much this helps with veteran Mike Hampton, who will have gone about 18 months between starts and obviously has to be considered at least a small question mark considering he’s coming back from Tommy John surgery.
The Braves wanted to do everything they could to erase doubts, to cover their bases, to fortify the bridge between the starters and Wickman _ not to mention having a backup plan should “Wick” fade or falter at any point during the long season.
They absolutely loved what they got from Wickman after trading for him on July 20, but it was too little, too late. They needed a closer earlier in the season, when the Mets were taking hold of the division and the Braves were having one of the worst Junes in recorded history.
The last thing the Braves wanted was to go into the ’07 season with a promising rotation and a veteran closer, but a middle-relief and setup crew of journeyman and/or young guys coming back from injuries.
So they traded Horacio Ramirez for flamethrowing righty setup man Rafael Soriano, then traded LaRoche for Gonzalez.
Now, a handful of those other guys will be competing for only a couple of spots in the ‘pen. Because at least four sports appear set _ Wickman, Gonzalez, Soriano and lefty Macay McBride. And the Braves expect Tanyon Sturtze to be ready in May, so that’s five.
I’d guess Oscar Villarreal could get serious consideration for a rotation spot if Kyle Davies doesn’t have a healthy and productive spring, but that’s just an educated guess at this point.
In the meantime, at least the Braves can rest assured that every night won’t be a late-innings adventure.
“Outfit,” by Jason Isbell (Drive-By Truckers)
You want to grow up to paint houses like me,/ a trailer in my yard till you’re 23
You want to be old after 42 years,/keep dropping the hammer and grinding the gears.
Well, I used to go out in a Mustang,/a 302 Mach One in green.
Me and your Mama made you in the back,/and I sold it to buy her a ring.
And I learned not to say much of nothing,/and I figured you already know
But in case you don’t or maybe forgot,/I’ll lay it out real nice and slow:
Don’t call what you’re wearing an outfit./Don’t ever say your car is broke.
Don’t worry about losing your accent,/a Southern Man tells better jokes.
Have fun but stay clear of the needle./Call home on your sister’s birthday.
Don’t tell them you’re bigger than Jesus,/don’t give it away.
Six months in a St. Florian foundry,/they call it Industrial Park.
Then hospital maintenance and tech school/just to memorize Frigidaire parts.
But I got to missing your Mama,/and I got to missing you too.
So I went back to painting for my old man,/and I guess that’s what I’ll always do
So don’t try to change who you are boy,/and don’t try to be who you ain’t.
And don’t let me catch you in Kendale/with a bucket of wealthy-man’s paint.
Don’t call what your wearing an outfit./Don’t ever say your car is broke.
Don’t sing with a fake British accent./Don’t act like your family’s a joke.
Have fun, but stay clear of the needle,/call home on your sister’s birthday.
Don’t tell them you’re bigger than Jesus,/don’t give it away.
Don’t give it away.
Comments
By John Adcox
January 18, 2007 02:53 PM | Link to this
My first reaction was to hate this trade… I truly, truly expected to land two players to help this year. But with a day to sort of get used to it, I can’t help thinking that this is the sort of bullpen we’ll be talking about years from now, like the famous nasty boys, or even the Braves Young Guns and Four Aces starting rotations of years past. This could be a pullpen we’ll tell our grandkids about.
Any chance Diaz will get a look as a platoon partner at first, or did something happen in Spring Traing last year to make the team think that may not be the best idea?
By ernesto
January 18, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this
I think we gave it away.
By Greg in TN
January 18, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this
Hey everyone…
27 more days until pitchers and catchers report.
The more I’ve been thinking about this deal, the more I think we’re better off with it. Hate to see Adam go and I wish him all the best in Pittsburgh, however the more I think about where things are with the roster, I am not about to label this as the end of the world as others are so ready to do.
I don’t think Wick will be with us after next season, so having Gonzalez and Soriano setting up Wick this next season will be a precursor to having one or the other as our closer in 2008. And I am getting more and more stoked about the idea of teams facing Gonzalez and Soriano in the 7th/8th with their 95+ MPH fastballs, then throwing Wick out there in the 9th and watching them have to adjust to his sinker.
I also agree with Lew completely in that the bullpen is so strong now, that the need for Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton to pitch 7 or 8 innings is gone now. There may be nights when they can, but it’ll be a lot different than the nights in the past when they HAD to because of the uncertainty in the pen. That can’t be understated.
I think we may have our leadoff guy after all, we may just have to wait for a few years to let Lillibridge get a bit more minor league time in, but from everything that DOB and others have said, we may be looking back at this deal in three seasons with a completely different perspective. To say right now this is a good deal/bad deal is completely knee-jerk anyway (I put these thoughts down and waited for the new blog to post before I submitted my thoughts, but my thoughts seem to be the same as DOB in his blog). Some deals are structured more for short term, some are long term, and others have elements of both. This deal will look better and better for us long term once we get a few seasons watching how Lillibridge progresses. This deal is also good for the Pirates, they get a solid defensive firstbaseman with pop in his bat.
TennPaul/KC - The deal with Liberty is certainly not a done deal by any stretch, and anything at all can happen between now and the time TW pulls the trigger to sell to someone. In the event Liberty is able to close the deal, it is certainly in their best interests to keep the team as viable as possible to maximize their selling price 3 years or so down the road, so in my mind, that makes a modest increase in payroll in their best interests (I am guessing anywhere between 8 - 10 million).
By ernesto
January 18, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this
I think we gave it away.
By Lew
January 18, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this
DOB-Let’s here it for house painting. I made my way through Grad school and beyond doing it. I know you weren’t in favor of this trade, but I think it takes care of the Braves-not only for this year, but for the next two after. It allows Wicky to retire and gives us a great staff with Harrison and Reyes coming soon. I think JS accomplished what he set out to do. He improved the pen AND the rotation and basically all we gave up was LaRoche and Ramirez (who was doubtful anyway). LaRoche was good, but I think Thorman will make us forget him quickly. I also don’t worry about Kelly Johnson. He was originally an infielder, so with Hubbard’s help (and all reports I’ve heard) he should be just fine at second. We’re in good shape now.
By MizzouGuru
January 18, 2007 03:06 PM | Link to this
DOB: You said: “And the Braves expect Tanyon Sturtze to be ready in May, so that’s five.”
I don’t get the expectations anybody has regarding this guy. His history, his age, his coming off an injury…am I missing a silver lining with this guy?
By 22oz
January 18, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this
I went and read some fan responses from Pirates fans on one of Pittsburgh’s newspaper sites, and boy they all think LaRoche is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Even the players are ecstatic, envisioning LaRoche batting cleanup. I think this is a pretty good trade, and our bullpen will be dominant. You got gotta give up something good to get something good, unless of course you trade with the Mariners. I guess LAngerhans can breathe a little easier now that Thorman will be playing first instead of left.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
January 18, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’m with you in having reservations about this trade. I also thought the Braves need to get another player who is ready to contribute now. I like Thorman but would feel more comfortable with a right handed 1B to platoon with him. I do wonder if Diaz will get some work this spring at 1st, which would allow Gregor Blanco to compete for LF and have it be his spot to lose. I really think if Blanco continues to shine as he has the last nine months or so that he could start the season in LF. That would leave Langerhans on the bench with B. Pena, Woodward, Aybar, and Diaz. While not an intimidating bench, it is one I could live with.
By Reality Check
January 18, 2007 03:10 PM | Link to this
John A, the Nasty Boys featured Hal Morris and Todd Benzinger at first base and Mariano Duncan at second. Those guys made only 24 errors between them all season long. Pitching, hitting AND defense is needed to field a championship team. The Braves obtained a wealth of one key ingredient at the expense of the other two.
By CC Rider
January 18, 2007 03:13 PM | Link to this
DOB, Do you think the Braves would go into the season with Thorman batting against lefties? It seems that Bobby has always tended to break a young position player into the starting lineup with a platoon situation when possible. If so, who do you know we could afford, acquire or already have that might fit. Does anyone know how Thorman faired against lefties in the minors.
By JasonInMaine
January 18, 2007 03:15 PM | Link to this
I think Gonzalez would be a great addition, but in conjunction with another move such as getting Baldelli. I know we have been obsessing over him, and some will hate the mention of it, but this is the last move the Braves need to make! If they can get Baldelli to play LF and be in place to take over if Andruw walks next year, we have our LF (cheap), Plan B for next year, our leadoff hitter, and a dominant pen. I wish the Rays would accept Davies, Salty, and Escobar! They have a surplus of outfields, and there is no one that is going to give them two SP, especially with the way the market exploded this year for average pitchers.
Regards,
Jason
By TennesseePaul
January 18, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this
DOB: Thanks for the new blog and hard work.
I think we’ll be set this season as is but I still don’t think JS is done making moves. How could he when most of our top prospects play the same position. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Salty switch positions as well. Thorman could be outstanding at 1B but if Salty comes back to life this season, Thorman is going to have to turn into a monster to keep his job. No pressure Thor. McCann already turned into the Monster so now it’s firstbase or trade.
I think the defense will shape up alright. If Giles was able to learn from Hubbard, Kelly should be able to. And I don’t think Thor is going to be a massive step back. Besides, Prado could really show well and from all accounts he is the better defender.
GO BRAVES
By 22oz
January 18, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this
Breaking News: The Braves have just signed Brian Jordan for 1 Year, 1 million to platoon with Thorman and provide “veteran leadership”. Just kidding, but don’t be surprised if it happens.
By David
January 18, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this
Fantastic that we have a great pen now no worries there…I think we are missing the obvious here…we just lost 32 HR a year. Now we have a non-proven rookie with bad hands and no confidence at first, and a second baseman that is either a rookie or has never played second base. WE HAVE TO HAVE RUNS AND BE IN THE LEAD TO MAKE OUR PEN WORK! This was an awful trade!
By KC
January 18, 2007 03:19 PM | Link to this
DOB: You seem to speak highly of Tanyon Sturtze… but as I look at his numbers, I can’t really understand why. Do you really think he’s going to have a job in this bullpen?? To me, there are 6 spots locked up: The big-3, plus McBride, Yates, and Villarreal.
That only leaves one spot, and several good candidates: Boyer, Paronto, Sturtz, Stockman, and Devine. Sturtze may have a chance of wining a job, but I don’t understand why you would rank him above everyone but Wickman, Gonzalez, Soriano, and McBride. Is there something about this guy (Sturtze) that I don’t know about??
By Reality Check
January 18, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this
And isn’t it amazing how much less talented a player LaRoche became overnight? Watch him rake with the Pirates, Lew, and come back and tell me in June that Thorman’s made you forget him.
By Lew
January 18, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this
You naysayers are missing the forest for the trees. We play in a division with the Mets (with the MLB equivalent of a joke rotation), the Phillies (who no matter how much they improve their staff, they still have to pitch at that stadium), the Marlins (who have two (at least) very overused young pitchers due for a melt down, and a team of kids who probably won’t all overachieve this year, and the Nationals (need I sya anything more)? Just what the hell are you all worried about? I was never a Rochy basher, but the guy had a good 1/2 season and was our #7 hitter. We didn’t just pull a Red Sox and trade Babe Ruth for a sack of used balls. We got a stud to help us for at least 3 years-CHEAP! We got what looks like the infielder/ lead off hitter of the future. We also still have four players (MCCann, Chipper, Francoeur, and Andruw), who hit 25-41 HR last year, all of whom are capable of knocking in 100 runs. Add to that Edgar Renteria’s 16HR and 70+RBI and we still have a formidable offense. All we have to have from a leadoff hitter to equal last year is .262 with 11HR. I will bet anyone right now that KJ can handle THAT with no problem. Rant on Doom and Gloomers (and Ernesto). We are fine. What a bullpen. What an improved rotation as a result. Amen and Selah!
By jb
January 18, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this
I hate to see ol’ “no chin” LaRoche go, but when you are dealing with a mid-level frozen payroll, you gotta give up something to get something and JS is doing the best he can. Pitching wins and its lots easier to find and develope power hitting first basemen than it is to find reliable hard throwing left handed setup men/closers. When they are holding all those late leads this year that were being blown last season, I think most folks opinion on this trade will improve.
By Fed Up
January 18, 2007 03:27 PM | Link to this
Great bullpen move. But now we have an infield full of amateurs. The only way this makes sense is if CJ moves to first. Then we put Aybar at third and let him leadoff.
By Shaun
January 18, 2007 03:28 PM | Link to this
This is my final remark, then I’ll drop the subject:
It’s still situational as to whether a strikeout is better or worse than other outs. It depends on a lot of things—game situation, baserunners’ skills, batter’s skills, etc.
And no one has addressed the fact that strikeout totals don’t really have any relation to runs scoring totals. Looking at the strikeout rankings don’t really tell you a whole lot about the runs scoring rankings—look for yourself.
But how often a team makes outs is very telling when it comes to run scoring. Looking at out rate rankings tell you a whole lot about the runs scored rankings—again, look for yourself.
The numbers don’t lie—strikeouts are a big deal because they are outs but it’s much more important to avoid outs than it is to make certain types of outs. Plenty of teams throughout baseball history have made most of their outs by way of the strikeout but have finished at or near the top in scoring runs. How do you explain that? I’ll tell you how—the rate at which you make outs is more important than how you make outs. And, I’ll say it one more time, don’t take my word for it! I’m not pulling this out of my backside. I’m just regurgitating what the evidence shows us. Look it up.
By kdbanks
January 18, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this
I remember the days when the Braves used to trade 2 or 3 “prospects” and get a starting position player or top line pitcher. Now we have to trade our starting first basemen and a starting pitcher to get two relivers? This kills me. I understand that salary constraints force us to cling to prospects and dump higher salaried veterans, but I hate to see it. That being said, at least Adam went to a team that is definately not going to be winning the Series anytime soon, so we won’t have to watch that and wonder what could have been.
Our fine GM may have overreacted to our bullpen needs, but I can’t blame him. Last year was tough to watch and at least this year we won’t blow late game leads. We just might not get too many leads to start with.
By Glass Half Full
January 18, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Do you think the Braves will be looking to sign a veteran 1st baseman to platoon with Thorman (and please don’t say they’re giving Brian Jordan a “look”)?
By geauxbraves2000
January 18, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this
I may be missing something, but aren’t the Braves going to have to make another move, either trade for or sign a backup firstbaseman? Look at the Cubs last year when Lee went down, they had no true first baseman to fill in for him.
Geaux Braves!!
By Glass Half Full
January 18, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this
Or is Chris Woodward the backup for 1st and 2nd?
By Lew
January 18, 2007 03:36 PM | Link to this
Everyone is having conniptions about our lack of defense. Has anyone bothered to check Thorman’s stats? He has had Fielding averages of between .990 and .992 since 2003. His worst season was with Myrtle Beach (high A) where he had 8 errors in 1056 Total chances. Y’all-this is not exactly Dr. Strangeglove (does anyone remember Dick Stuart)? We have seen Hubbard work wonders with Giles at second, transforming him from a defensive liability to, at the very least, a above average defender. Kelly Johnson is a natural shortstop, not an outfielder. His transition is, by all reports, going quite well (read the Braves’ website). I fail to see what everyone is bent out of shape about. For 14 years we had superior pitching and won. Last year the pitching sucked and we lost (even with an explosive offense). Does this not make sense to everyone? Our pitching is now superior again and our offense is far from departed. I wish Roachy well.
By Voice of Reason
January 18, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this
David: Awful trade? Bad hands? Why would you say Thorman has bad hands? He is a legitimate 1b, albeit not as smooth as LaRoche, but he’s not Roberto “Hands of Stone” Duran, either. And while he may not hit 32 HR’s this year, 20 isn’t far fetched. I can live with Thorman at 1B. My question now is this: since Thor won’t be getting the starts in LF that were expected, who will? BC and JS obviously aren’t looking toward Diaz or Langy to hold it down, so who will? It seems as though the 2B question has been somewhat answered with the off-season work of KJ and Prado. Every regular spot seems set except LF. Any indications DOB?
By ernesto
January 18, 2007 03:41 PM | Link to this
Maybe Jurries will come back to his old spring training form. What is it about Thorman that has everyone so geeked?
By ernesto
January 18, 2007 03:42 PM | Link to this
I am anti-this trade, but on an upnote it will sound a lot cooler to be rootign for “Gonzo” than “Roachy” I must admit.
By JakeB
January 18, 2007 03:42 PM | Link to this
Don’t forget Blayne Boyer, if he is able to come back successfully. We really could have used him last year.
If Boyer comes back, I bet that at least one of the “other guys” will need to be capable of serious, 3+ innings of long relief. Making either Wickman or our two newly acquired setup men go more than one inning would seem to raise serious health concerns.
By Kieran, Long Island Brave Fan
January 18, 2007 03:43 PM | Link to this
I understand how good the pitching could potentially be, especially since a good bullpen lightens the load on teh starters, but can we look at how potentially Anemic this offense could be?? I mean now instead of having 3 guys in Diaz, Thorman, and Langerhans competing for 1 spot in left feild, now 2 of the three are going to be starting. Does anyone remember how weak kelly johnson looked at times to years ago? Or how pathetic his at bats were in the playoffs vs the Astros, specifically in the 18 inning epic? And if (and when) Chipper Jones goes down? Willie Aybar?? So there could very well be a long string of games where we are seeing Langerhans, Thorman, Aybar, and Kelly Johnson and a pitch occupying more then half of the lineup. Thats very scary to me. In the paraphrased words of John Smoltz, what good am I as the closer if my team cant get me the lead. This trade may have bled them dry.
By Reality Check
January 18, 2007 03:44 PM | Link to this
Oh, I’m sorry, Lew — I misunderstood you. I thought the goal was to be the best team in baseball and win the World Series. I assumed the thrill of being king of the National League Least wore off about eight or nine titles ago.
If being better than the Mets is all you care about, then it’s all good.
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2007 03:47 PM | Link to this
Didn’t mean to overstate possible role of Sturtze. No, I don’t think it’s a given that he’s going to nail down a spot, but I know the Braves intend to have him move into the ‘pen soon as he’s ready, which is only reason they gave him a guaranteed $750,000, plus another $350,000 if he’s on the 25-man roster for even one day, plus up to $450,000 in bonuses (though he won’t hit many of those).
Does that sound like a guy they’re not counting on pretty strongly? Didn’t say i saw the wisdom of that signing, but just stated fact that he’s there, and they wanted him enough to give him that much (for a team that’s counting pennies).
He did have 78 innings in career-high 64 appearances (one start) for the Yanks in 2005, before he hurt the shoulder last year. Had a decent .257 opp average and .329 OBP that year, including .237 average in 97 ABs with runners in scoring position. (Hey, just trying to find some nuggets of hope).
But then again, if others are pitching well and Sturtze doesn’t show anything, they’re probably not going to kick someone to the curb just to make room for him. But chances are pretty good, I’d say, that someone will be off to a mediocre first month or two and they’ll not have a hard time finding a place for him….
As for defense, I don’t know that they’ll be particularly bad on the right side. Could be. But maybe Kelly will surprise me. I wrote a 30-inch story on his work with Hubby, etc, that was supposed to run today before the trade displaced it. That story should run Monday, I think.
By KM
January 18, 2007 03:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, It appears the Braves’ payroll is currently down by over $4 million from last year. Here are the 2006 salaries of players no longer with the team:
Reitsma ($2.75 million) Thomson ($4.75) Giles ($3.85) Laroche ($420,000) H. Ramirez ($2.2) Pratt ($850) Jordan ($700) Sosa ($2.2 million)
Total reduction: $17.72 million from last year.
Additions:
Soriano ($1.2) Wickman ($6.5) Gonzalez ($2.2) Villareal’s raise will be, worst case, $840,000
Woodward ($850) Sturtz ($750) B Pena (presumably replacing Pratt) ($300) Thorman (presumably replacing Jordan) ($300)
Total additions: $12.94 million
Difference: $4,780,000
Not sure what non arbitration eligible players’ raises are, but can they be in excess of $1 million total? It doesn’t appear from information available online that any of the players under long-term contracts have salaries that are going up from 2006 to 2007.
Am I missing something or forgetting someone?
By Carolina Lady
January 18, 2007 03:49 PM | Link to this
“and the Braves were having one of the worst Junes in recorded history.”
Well, actually there was one, DOB. It was back when some of the hunters were between mastodon hunts and one of them decided to throw a rock which one of the others then tried to hit with his club. It became a contest to see who could hit the rock the most - but they were pretty bad.
True! Lew told me. He was there.
I’m going to miss Adam. WHO is on first??
:-)))
By rammerjammer
January 18, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this
Thorman’s done all he can in the minors and it makes sense to get him in the lineup. It’s reasonable to expect his first season numbers to be similar to LaRoche’s (324 AB, 13 HR, 45 RBI, .278 BA).
Chris Woodward might see some time if a platoon is needed. He played 199 innings at 1B in 2005, with only two errors.
By Drummerdad
January 18, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this
Well whaddaya know!!! The O’Brien Braves Blog finally has some fresh meat to devour. Breathe new life in here.
I’ll miss Adam, but hooray for the trade!! You gotta do something. That said, I doubt that JS is done. Feels like he’ll be looking for a position player to either platoon at first, or maybe he makes another trade to get a future center fielder to replace Andruw after he has his torrid final year in ATL.
By ncscoots
January 18, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this
Infield defense is shaping up as, well, average at best. Thor is no butcher over there at 1B, but he’ll look “awful” following Adam’s glove; Edgar is a solid SS, but I don’t believe he’s quite the Gold Glove he once was; and Chipper’s defense, while underrated by many, IMO, won’t make folks forget Scott Rolen. Which brings me to Martin Prado, and frankly I’m still shocked that it does, LOL. But the guy did hit near .300 in the minors, and no matter how much work KJ is putting in with Hubbard, I’m betting Prado is the superior defender. Frankly, I don’t much give a darn who hits leadoff, and if Prado can hit a single lick and provide a superior glove, he’s the guy I want at 2B. Hudson and Hampton, especially, expect to deliver a lot of ground balls, and SOMEBODY at 2B is gonna need some range to get ‘em. Thor not only has less range than AL, but he’s a right-handed glove, also, restricting him just a little bit more (but I still look forward to seeing his swing every day…shh-weet)
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
January 18, 2007 03:53 PM | Link to this
It really amazes me how quickly opinions can change. I remember back in July LaRoche was about to be hung. I got blasted for suggesting we trade him to the Tigers or Yankees. I heard time and time again how he wasn’t worth a bag of balls. Now, he is the greatest 1B to ever play? I don’t like the trade that much but quit being dramatic. The move is a solid one and I have always said you have to give something to get something.
Don’t underestimate what a good pen can do to the mindset of the rotation. I honestly believe that part of the issue last year was that the starters felt they had to throw 8 shutout innings every start and hope the offense scored 10 runs. A great pen helps the offense as well. While this team scored plenty of runs last year, the offense was unbalanced and it did press at times. The hitters knew that they had to score 7+ runs every game to have a fighting chance. While I do wish another immediate impact player would have been acquired, I do believe that this near lights out bullpen will help the starting rotation, the hitters, and the overall confidence of the team.
I do believe that another deal is in the works. With all due respect many people didn’t think this deal would get done and the roster was basically set. I don’t think the roster is set. JS in his own subtle way said that the moves were to come. The Braves play things really close to the vest. I knew this Gonzales trade was going to happen as soon as the Braves said nothing was significantly being discussed and the talk went silent.
I could be wrong. But, I really think Alex Rios could be in the crosshairs. Tim Hudson at $6.5 mil is a helluva bargain in this market. And, yes, that is true for the Braves but they could get Chacin or Marcum along with Rios in a trade or simply place Villereal in the rotation with Smoltz, Hampton, Davies, and James. The pen would be: Wickman, Gonzales, Soriano, McBride, and Sturtze (in May) with Paronto, Yates, Stockman, Moylan, Boyer, Cormier, and Devine competing for the two remaining spots. I actually think Cormier would be better served in the minors. As I have stated before the Braves could go after Ohka or Armas. It seems a little strange that Armas’ name hasn’t been mentioned in any substantial rumors. Sounds like a JS underground negotiating to me.
By Lew
January 18, 2007 03:55 PM | Link to this
Reality Check (or Stinky in Disguise)-You can’t win the WS if you don’t get to the playoffs first, which we did not last year. Don’t be such an a$$. If you can’t see the point I was making, then you are truly blind.
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2007 03:56 PM | Link to this
If I had to guess now, regarding backup 1B (a lot of folks are asking about that), I’d guess it’ll come from someone already on the roster, perhaps Woodward (he’s played 42 games there) or Diaz (who worked there quite a bit last year in pregame, etc), both right-handed hitters. But I don’t know if they plan to use a straight platoon or what. They’ve given no indication.
By the way, Diaz has a .307 career average with seven homers and an .824 OPS in 218 at-bats vs. lefties (and .303 with two HRs and .773 OPS in 198 ABs vs. righties)
By Stinky
January 18, 2007 03:56 PM | Link to this
Lew, thanks for vindicating my view about the sale of the Braves to Liberty not being a done deal. You certainly live in the right part of the country to like waffles :-).
As for the ‘vendetta’? WTFRU talking about? I love DOB. He aint heavy. He’s my Bro. Just gently ribbing a pal
about a trade he pooh poohed because Bucco Blog was the source. And the little poke about his taste in music was certainly not high amperage vitriol. So don’t go stirring up trouble. I have forgiven DOB of his many transgressions against me.
As for Thorman making anybody forget LaRoche, that only applies to Bobby Cox. He gets his 2nd platoon back. So I bet Mrs. Cox woke up with a big smile this morning.
By Lew
January 18, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this
For all freaked out about Thormans fielding. He averages .992. Roche’s Fielding avg. last year was .995. Pujol’s is between .986-.996. Ryan Howard’s is .994 (at it’s best), Carlos Delgado’s is .992 and Nick Johnson of the Nationals has a .993. I fail to see what all of the negativity with Thorman’s fielding is all about.
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2007 04:02 PM | Link to this
And for what it’s worth (obviously it’s a small sample of work), Thorman hit .253 with four homers and a .735 OPS in 91 at-bats vs. righties as a rookie, and .189 with one homer, 11 strikeouts and a .609 OPS vs. lefties. Again, very small sample.
I’ll try to find his splits in the minors.
By Lew's Mother-in-Law
January 18, 2007 04:07 PM | Link to this
What did you mean, Lewie, by the remark “From personal experience, avoiding your mother-in-law is helpful, also”? I will be awaiting your response, Lewie dear.
By Adam
January 18, 2007 04:08 PM | Link to this
I like the trade. The Braves didn’t have problems scoring runs last year at all, but they did have problems keeping the other team from scoring late in games. Giles didn’t produce much last year and although LaRoche carried the Braves for about a month after the All-Star break, he wasn’t anything special before July and the Braves were scoring a ton of runs then. Hopefully Johnson can be average defensively and I am betting he is going to hit. I like the aggressiveness of Thorman and hopefully he cut his teeth enough last year to be productive this year. Only place I don’t feel real comfortable about is left field. Langy isn’t the answer and not sure Diaz is either.
By TheSouthernJackAss
January 18, 2007 04:10 PM | Link to this
Stinky, did Mrs. Stinky wake up with a big smile, too? Call me and I’ll let you know.
By Lost at the end of old blog
January 18, 2007 04:10 PM | Link to this
October 2007:
(phone rings)
Chipper: Uhhh, Hello?
Adam: Uhhh, Yeah I’d like a large thick-crust Canadian Bacon.
Chipper: Uhh, What?
Adam: Oh Sorry. Who is this?
Chipper: This is, uhh Chipper.
Adam: Oh yeah, Hey Chipper, ya’ wanna go huntin’ tomorrow?
Chipper: Uhhh, Roachy, I can’t go. I’ve got game five in the Bronx tomorrow.
Adam: Oh ok, well, uhhh, Can I hunt your stand then?
Chipper: Uhhh, I guess. What’s wrong with your stand?
Adam: Uhhhhhh
Chipper: Uhhh, just one thing. You have to give some of the deer meat to Wicky.
Adam: Huh?
Chipper: Uhh, yeah, I bet Wicky a breakfast that he couldn’t knock Bobby’s, uhh, hat off his head with a chaw before I could. Dude nailed it first try, so I owe him a breakfast. Uhhh, He wants two backstraps, four packages of ground, and a whole deer ham still on the bone.
Adam: Huh?
Chipper: Uhhh, later….
Adam: …Uhhh, could I change that to a thin crust with an order of pita bread?
(Click)
By BB FAN
January 18, 2007 04:12 PM | Link to this
I like the trade a lot. It solidifies the bullpen. I believe the Braves bullpen is the best in the NL.
And yes, that includes the Mets. I’m not sure why everybody thinks the Mets have such a great bullpen. They lost Chad Bradford (2.90 ERA in 70 games), Roberto Hernandez (3.48 in 22 games after being acquired to replace the injured Sanchez) and Darren Oliver (3.44 in 81 innings and the key long reliever for helping their horrible rotation). Guillermo Mota is suspended for 50 games for using performance enhancers. Who knows how productive he will be when he comes back. Duaner Sanchez will be coming back from a dislocated shoulder or broken arm from a taxi cab accident. He’s another who may not come back as sharp. It’s hard to say. There big signing was Scott Schoeneweis who was horrible last year. He is tough on lefties, but that’s it. So they gave 10.8 million to a lefty specialist. And their other big signing was Jorge Sosa. We all know how well he did last year. Now add the spotlight of NY City and Sosa may completely crumble from the pressure. There’s talk of them trading Heilman for a starter.
Anyway, I really think Thorman can hit 20-25 homers and drive in 70-80 runs. Lillibridge looks like he can be the leadoff hitter in a year. He knows how to take a walk and he hits for average and can steal bases. He’s the kind of hitter the Braves need in their system.
If Blanco, Diaz or Langerhans can’t handle left field in 07, I’d like to see the Braves pick somebody up. Of course Baldelli would be the best fit, but the Rays are asking too much. I really think Blanco could win the job with a solid spring. The guy knows how to take a walk and can steal some bases.
By Lew
January 18, 2007 04:13 PM | Link to this
I knew the Whiny Little Jerk was here. My Mother In Law (even after 32 years of marriage) would never call me dear (or Lewie).
By MBATL
January 18, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this
RJIB, a deal with Toronto for Rios (for Hudson) does make a lot of sense. I read that they’ve got money to spend.
Either Villarreal, Soriano, or Cormier - or one of the guys you mentioned - could step in as 5th starter.
It would make ‘07 kind of a transitional year, but would set the table for the future.
Lose Hudson’s salary, prepare to lose AJ and his salary, settle CF, leadoff in ‘08 may be set with Lillibridge… man, gotta wear shades.
By Chip Larry
January 18, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this
Uh, I don’t like the trade. Rochie and Chipper Jones were great buddies and would go a huntin’ together. Now, Rochie will be in Pittsburgh and uh, Chipper will be unhappy. I think Chipper should be able to pick who he throws to at first base and I think Chipper would pick, uh, Rochie. Undo the trade now and bring Rochie back next year. I don’t think Gonzales hunts or fishes - probably an intellectual like McCann and Francoeur reading all the time.
By B
January 18, 2007 04:19 PM | Link to this
Seriously, stop putting song lyrics in your blogs. It’s pointless, and all we want to know is about the Braves.
By Ron Roberts
January 18, 2007 04:20 PM | Link to this
One of the first of John Schuerholz’ key acquisitions for the Atlanta Braves when he arrived prior to 1991 were defense-minded. The Braves signed Terry Pendleton and Sid Bream to shore up a perviously-porous infield. Bolstering a sloppy defense behind his young stable of starters gave those pitchers confidence in the guys behind ‘em.
I fail to see how creating the gaping wound we’ll call the right side of our infield (as of now, anyhow) is much of a confidence-builder for our pitching staff. Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think being green at 2B and 1B at the same time will cost us as many games as our bullpen did last year, but I do think we eliminated a good bit of our bullpen problems ismply by re-signing Wickman! Adding Soriano ws even better! But this trade, to me, is overkill, if the goal is to win now.
Because while the Braves assuredly have addressed the bullpen problem, they’ve now created two more… lowered offensive expectations (with no Andruw Jones heir-apparent in sight, yet) and now lowered defensive expectations ont he right side of our infield.
Our options now are to combo a rookie 1B with a guy coming off a year on the DL and only his second real MLB season on the field, or throw in a utility guy at one spot and a rookie at the other, or vice versa.
I could see going into the season with one position as a question mark, but both? On the same side of the infield? You make this trade if you have something to address this problem already lined up, trigger ready to be pulled. So knowing Schuerholz is good at his game, I keep waiting on the other shoe to fall, but I’ve yet to see it. I’m a little worried.
Great bullpens don’t mean squat if we don’t get to ‘em with enough runs on the board to have a lead for ‘em to hold, either because we didn’t score enough or we kicked the ball around the infield.
And lest we forget the occasional Chipper Jones downtime (or DL stint) that’ll have Willie Aybar playing with our utility/slash/rookie right-side infield.
Think our ground ball-inducing pitchers are excited about this?
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2007 04:20 PM | Link to this
KM, Andruw’s salary goes up from $13 mill in 2006 to $13.5 in 2007, Hudson’s from $4 mill to $6 mill, and Hampton’s from $13.5 to $14.5.
The guys you have as making around $300,000 will actually be around $400,000 (major league minimum climbs from $327,000 to $380,000 in 2007).
By N8
January 18, 2007 04:23 PM | Link to this
Lew
I looked up Thorman’s defensive “numbers” as well, out of curiosity. While I agree with you that his fielding percentage is MORE THAN ADEQUATE. It’s the errors from other players throws that LaRoche was great at. That doesn’t show up on LaRoche’s “stats”, because if he misses those throws, the error goes to the other guy.
So while I hear your point (that Thorman will be very servicable at 1B), he more than likely will never be as naturally, well…….NATURAL at 1B.
As for your other comments the last couple of days, I couldn’t agree more with you. I think we’ll be fine. In fact some of my concerns with guys like Hudson, Hampton and even Smoltz with his age (hell, the WHOLE rotation was a question mark as far as stamina goes), have now basically dissappeared. Hudson seemed to fall apart late in games, Chuck may have trouble the 3rd time through the order in his sophomore season, as for Hampton, who knows what we’ll get from him. And yes, Smoltz isn’t getting any younger, and judging by his “september swoon”, it’s OBVIOUS that his workload caught up to him late in the year. So not only does the Gonzalez (along with re-signing Wicky and trading for Soriano) solidify the pen, it makes ALL of our starters MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE, IMO. Not to mention, I think Kelly Johnson (provided he’s healthy), witl be JUST FINE at 2B. Not sure why I feel that way, but everybody questioned Giles defensive skills too, and KJ was a SS coming up, so it’s not like he’s NEVER played infield.
I think the greater good of the bullpen will outway any offensive dropoff, IMO.
So I’m going on the record right now, that I STILL don’t quite believe that Tim Hudson is going to revert to his ALLSTAR form this year. I DO HOWEVER, believe that by him not having to go beyond 7 innings too often will give him a greater chance to succeed, more often. Just to clear that up, since you all (Head Coach), know I have my doubts about him. I HOPE LIKE HELL, he proves me wrong. I be the first to admit I was wrong.
By Ron Roberts
January 18, 2007 04:25 PM | Link to this
MLB.com free agent tracker lists the following “available” first basemen, still… (I’ll rank ‘em in order I’d like to have ‘em, salary cap be damned)
Darin Erstad
Eduardo Perez
Ryan Klesko
Brian Jordan
**YIKES!!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
January 18, 2007 04:28 PM | Link to this
Here is a reason why I believe that something else is also in the works. I have a hard time believing that Lillibridge was the deal breaker. All indications are that Duffy was never even mentioned by either side. I am sure the Braves asked for a starter but Littlefield has been steadfast in his stance that he would not give up a starter. I can’t believe that JS just now realized that the Pirates weren’t giving up a starter. By all accounts it was the Braves who were stalling and not pulling the trigger on the deal. That tells me that JS was attempting to get something else lined up and wanted whatever it is in place before pulling the trigger. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.
This deal could have been made back in December or two weeks ago for that matter. It is apparent the Braves weren’t waiting out Littlefield because if they were the deal wouldn’t have been made now. It is not like another team was on the verge. Yes, the D-Backs had discussed Tracy but like the Braves wanted a second player. My guess is either Duffy or another pitcher. You have to wonder why this deal took so long. I understand the entire Soriano deal but it seemed apparent the Braves wanted both from the start. It makes me wonder how truly accurate was the reported three way deal with the Yankees was. The Braves continuously said that they were talking to the Pirates but it wasn’t anything that serious. Well, that was obviously not true.
We all know how slow of a worker and how methodical JS can be. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I really do believe that JS has something else in mind here. I can’t believe that he is not going to attempt to replace LaRoche’s production either by acquiring a power bat or someone who can get on base and create havoc. Because as someone did ask, what happens if Thorman goes down. No viable backup exists.
By Nader
January 18, 2007 04:29 PM | Link to this
November 22, 2004 - A Pennsylvania company recalled about 226,000 gas furnaces for mobile homes last week after reports that they could have been linked to a series of fires.
The Unitary Products Group (UPG) of York International Corp., of York, Pa., said the furnaces can overheat, causing the heat exchanger to crack or burn through, and in extreme cases, can cause the furnace wrapper to burn. The overheating can in turn burn drywall and other combustibles near the furnace, posing a fire and smoke hazard. The problem has been traced to differences in installation, application factors and variations in components, the company said.
The company received 27 reports of fires that could have been related to the furnaces, some of which resulted in extensive property damage. No injuries have been reported, but the company warned that the problem, if left unresolved, could lead to personal injury or death.
The furnaces were manufactured in Wichita, Kan., and sold nationwide between 1995 and 2000 under the brand names Coleman, Coleman Evcon and Red T as original and replacement furnaces in manufactured homes.
If you are a lonely blogger, living all alone now in a mobile home, please check your furnace so we can keep blogging with you.
By Lew's Mother-in-Law
January 18, 2007 04:33 PM | Link to this
Lewie, Stinky did not make this post. NO WAY!
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2007 04:34 PM | Link to this
B: Seriously, no.
By Stinky
January 18, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this
Lew, I don’t know the answer, but how many DPs did Thorman start and how many did LaRoche start. How many times did either sluff off the DP and step on the bag? I don’t know, but I did have every confidence that if the 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 could’ve been turned last year, that Roche would have turned it. Can’t say that for anybody else the Braves have ever had playing first base.
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2007 04:40 PM | Link to this
Robert (JIB), you wrote: “All indications are that Duffy was never even mentioned by either side…. By all accounts it was the Braves who were stalling and not pulling the trigger on the deal. …That tells me that JS was attempting to get something else lined up and wanted whatever it is in place before pulling the trigger. I could be wrong but I don’t think so…. This deal could have been made back in December or two weeks ago for that matter.”
COUPLE OF THINGS: I don’t know why you think the deal could have been done in December. Pirates didn’t want to give up any of their top prospects, and the deal that the Braves pulled from table at winter meeting was straight up LaRoche for Gonzalez.
They pulled it from the table after getting Soriano for Ramirez, because the Braves were no longer desperate to get a setup man. They figured why trade LaRoche at the winter meetings if they could hold out and try to get more? (I think they should’ve gotten more for him than they did, but getting a possible future SS and giving up only a fringe-prospect OF is certainly a better deal than straight-up LaRoche for Gonzalez, so waiting certainly only helped the Braves in that regard).
You’ve been reading too much of a certain other source if you’re now stating with authority that the Braves never asked for Duffy. WRONG. They did. Pirates flatly refused, but Braves asked. Just fact.
Also, Braves inquired about the starting pitchers and Pirates made it clear they weren’t parting with any of the three top young guys.
By Braves20
January 18, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this
deals like this bring back haunting images of Ernie Broglio or Jim Fregosi (yes, I know, he is one of us now). Guys like Soriano and Gonzalez are one pitch away from 18 month surgeries. a power hitting first baseman with a super glove making three mil - priceless!
By ncscoots
January 18, 2007 04:43 PM | Link to this
Ron, I think “gaping wound” is overstating it a little, re the defensive right side of the infield. Thorman won’t play D as well as LaRoche, but he’s no Carlos Delgado, either. He’ll be an average defender, but he won’t make you cringe on every roller to the bag. And I don’t see that KJ has a lock on 2B, yet. The glove there is TBD.
By Don
January 18, 2007 04:45 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure which is worse, Thorman and Johnson/Prado as the right side of the infield or those song lyrics. It’s a close call.
By Chop Chop
January 18, 2007 04:46 PM | Link to this
Don’t forget 1B Kala Kaaihue down in the low minors. He struggled at Myrtle Beach last year, but he certainly has the power (28 combined homers in ‘06) and enough patience (an insane .407 combined OBP, .458 at Rome while only .342 at Myrtle) to help him continue to progress through the minors. He turns 22 at the end of March, so he still has some room to grow.
By the dude
January 18, 2007 04:52 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if I like this trade or not…it’s a head scratcher. One one hand you get a dominant young pitcher for Adam LaRoach…sounds good to me. Then you look at the numbers. You’re trading a 30+ homerun 100 RBI’s for a guy who pitched 60 or so innings last year. hmmmm
Just hoping JS can pull a first baseman out of his rear like he did with Julio. Thorman is not the answer. To compete this year, the Braves still need to pickup 1 offensive player at 1b, 2b, or LF. I like the idea of Johnson at 2b, so let’s look for a 1b or LF.
By Ron Roberts
January 18, 2007 04:57 PM | Link to this
NCScoots…
You may have it right about Thorman’s glove, and I’ll even go so far as to say he’ll probably do fairly. That being said, we’re one Chipper Jones injury from having Aybar, Renteria, KJ/Prado/Woodard and Thorman round out our infield (left-to-right).
Is anybody confident in that? NeverMIND how it looks on a lineup card!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
January 18, 2007 04:58 PM | Link to this
DOB, I apologize for being wrong. I read from a few different places that the Braves didn’t ask for Duffy. I understand that at the winter meetings the deal was for a one for one swap. But, a little later on it was reported that the Pirates offered four players for LaRoche and Davies. Now, the other three aside from Gonzales weren’t worth crap but a deal could have been worked out. If I’m wrong, I will eat crow and admit it. But, I really do think another move will be made or at least attempted to be made. For what it is worth I’m glad the Pirates said no to Duffy.
By Chop Chop
January 18, 2007 04:58 PM | Link to this
Mike Gonzalez
Not bad, I’d say.
While it’s true that Soriano’s arm may fall off, I don’t think there are too many Braves fans sad to see Horacio go. As for the Gonzalez deal, many of us mocked LaRoche in the first half of the season last year (due to his mental blunders and poor hitting), but he got on some meds, put on his typical second-half surge and had good numbers at the end of the year. Unless Gonzalez gets hurt, this deal should be just fine for the Braves. It’s easier to find a first baseman who can hit for power and drive in some runs than a reliever who is actually good from year to year. If the defense at first base costs the Braves a chance to make the playoffs, I’ll just become a Georgia Force fan or something.
Besides, after last year, I can’t complain if Schuerholz wants to bolster the pen. If Gonzalez were in his mid-thirties, this would be an obviously bad trade. He isn’t, so I’ll give Schuerholz props for trying to shore up a weakness.
By Spider29
January 18, 2007 05:01 PM | Link to this
I’m elated at the thought of having a dominant bullpen which is something the Braves haven’t had in recent memory. I am sad to see LaRoche go. We will miss his smooth defense and awakening bat. All Braves fans will be pulling for Thorman to develop into a good first baseman who will give us some offense. I guess I am apprehensive about having two pretty much unknown qualities on the right side of the infield. But the bullpen! Wow! All in all, good job by the GM
By rammerjammer
January 18, 2007 05:13 PM | Link to this
It’s a good trade. Braves get what they need and Pirates do too. Both teams are better because they both addressed their greatest weakness and took a calculated gamble that they can withstand the loss.
The Pirates, folks, are handing the closer role to a 34-year-old who’s only done it the five weeks Gonzalez was out. I’d say they have more reason to be nervous than the Braves…at least Thorman has a strong minor league pedigree and just turned 25.
And since JS wisely believed you don’t trade a regular for a reliever straight up, he got our leadoff man (albeit, probably not until 2008) and heir-apparent to Renteria, and only parted with a low-level prospect.
All in all, great work again JS.
By PopeVanIII
January 18, 2007 05:17 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Do you know if the Braves have given any thought to signing Craig Wilson? I know we’re strapped for cash, but he likely could be had for Daryle Ward-ish money, and he would be one heck of a platoon partner with Thorman / reserve outfielder / emergency catcher.
Your thoughts?
By Jeff Gray
January 18, 2007 05:23 PM | Link to this
How long until Gonzalez and Soriano are available for Free Agency? I hope this is not another one year rental.
By summerteeth
January 18, 2007 05:25 PM | Link to this
DOB, ejoyed listening to you on Charlie Steiner’s XM show…good stuff.
By JC FROM UT
January 18, 2007 05:31 PM | Link to this
If I remember correctly, sometime in May or June, nearly everyone on this blog wanted Thorman called up and LaRoch sent anywhere. Now Thorman is up and for now is the first baseman with the bonus of having a dominant left handed reliver. I can’t understand why the same people are so upset. Agreed Thorman might not hit 30 HR but so what if he hits 20 with a lot more hustle. DOB: What happened to the thought that Elvis Andrus or Yunel Escober were the SS of the future? Is this new guy that much better and if so would this mean the others are expendable? Also I’ve heard nothing about Tyler Yates what is up with him?
By Plate Appearance
January 18, 2007 05:40 PM | Link to this
I’m really disappointed in the trade. I too, along with others felt that JS had already done enough toward dealing with last year’s bull pen ills.
LaRoche was really coming along. He had shortened his swing and really came into his own the second half of last year.
LaRoche is a PROVEN COMMODITY. While it’s clear, even as related to the Braves recent history, that pitching is much more difficult to predict — and can change from year to year. This was certainly clearly seen in the trades for Kolb, Baez, and Farnsworth — non of which worked out long term for the Braves.
I don’t like your judgment this time JS! And I don’t like giving up the whole right side of the Braves infield!
Think about it JS. You would have never traded fan favorites McCaan or Francoeur, yet arguably LaRoche had better numbers than both of them!
Thanks for the great years with the Braves Adam!! We’ll miss you! I only wish we fans had a vote in this process! I believe the Braves will regret down the road they let you “get away”!
But I’ll vote this way: I DON’T LIKE THIS TRADE JS! I DON’T LIKE IT AT ALL!
By David O'Brien
January 18, 2007 05:43 PM | Link to this
JC, right now I’d bet that either Elvis or the new guy will move to 2B eventually. That looks to be their middle infield of the future, but we know how fast this stuff can change. I’d say the new guy has a very, very good chance of being a lineup regular in two years or l