Braves

By John Adcox

January 18, 2007 02:53 PM | Link to this

My first reaction was to hate this trade… I truly, truly expected to land two players to help this year. But with a day to sort of get used to it, I can’t help thinking that this is the sort of bullpen we’ll be talking about years from now, like the famous nasty boys, or even the Braves Young Guns and Four Aces starting rotations of years past. This could be a pullpen we’ll tell our grandkids about.

Any chance Diaz will get a look as a platoon partner at first, or did something happen in Spring Traing last year to make the team think that may not be the best idea?

By ernesto

January 18, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

I think we gave it away.

By Greg in TN

January 18, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

Hey everyone…

27 more days until pitchers and catchers report.

The more I’ve been thinking about this deal, the more I think we’re better off with it. Hate to see Adam go and I wish him all the best in Pittsburgh, however the more I think about where things are with the roster, I am not about to label this as the end of the world as others are so ready to do.

I don’t think Wick will be with us after next season, so having Gonzalez and Soriano setting up Wick this next season will be a precursor to having one or the other as our closer in 2008. And I am getting more and more stoked about the idea of teams facing Gonzalez and Soriano in the 7th/8th with their 95+ MPH fastballs, then throwing Wick out there in the 9th and watching them have to adjust to his sinker.

I also agree with Lew completely in that the bullpen is so strong now, that the need for Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton to pitch 7 or 8 innings is gone now. There may be nights when they can, but it’ll be a lot different than the nights in the past when they HAD to because of the uncertainty in the pen. That can’t be understated.

I think we may have our leadoff guy after all, we may just have to wait for a few years to let Lillibridge get a bit more minor league time in, but from everything that DOB and others have said, we may be looking back at this deal in three seasons with a completely different perspective. To say right now this is a good deal/bad deal is completely knee-jerk anyway (I put these thoughts down and waited for the new blog to post before I submitted my thoughts, but my thoughts seem to be the same as DOB in his blog). Some deals are structured more for short term, some are long term, and others have elements of both. This deal will look better and better for us long term once we get a few seasons watching how Lillibridge progresses. This deal is also good for the Pirates, they get a solid defensive firstbaseman with pop in his bat.

TennPaul/KC - The deal with Liberty is certainly not a done deal by any stretch, and anything at all can happen between now and the time TW pulls the trigger to sell to someone. In the event Liberty is able to close the deal, it is certainly in their best interests to keep the team as viable as possible to maximize their selling price 3 years or so down the road, so in my mind, that makes a modest increase in payroll in their best interests (I am guessing anywhere between 8 - 10 million).

By ernesto

January 18, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

I think we gave it away.

By Lew

January 18, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

DOB-Let’s here it for house painting. I made my way through Grad school and beyond doing it. I know you weren’t in favor of this trade, but I think it takes care of the Braves-not only for this year, but for the next two after. It allows Wicky to retire and gives us a great staff with Harrison and Reyes coming soon. I think JS accomplished what he set out to do. He improved the pen AND the rotation and basically all we gave up was LaRoche and Ramirez (who was doubtful anyway). LaRoche was good, but I think Thorman will make us forget him quickly. I also don’t worry about Kelly Johnson. He was originally an infielder, so with Hubbard’s help (and all reports I’ve heard) he should be just fine at second. We’re in good shape now.

By MizzouGuru

January 18, 2007 03:06 PM | Link to this

DOB: You said: “And the Braves expect Tanyon Sturtze to be ready in May, so that’s five.”

I don’t get the expectations anybody has regarding this guy. His history, his age, his coming off an injury…am I missing a silver lining with this guy?

By 22oz

January 18, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this

I went and read some fan responses from Pirates fans on one of Pittsburgh’s newspaper sites, and boy they all think LaRoche is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Even the players are ecstatic, envisioning LaRoche batting cleanup. I think this is a pretty good trade, and our bullpen will be dominant. You got gotta give up something good to get something good, unless of course you trade with the Mariners. I guess LAngerhans can breathe a little easier now that Thorman will be playing first instead of left.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m with you in having reservations about this trade. I also thought the Braves need to get another player who is ready to contribute now. I like Thorman but would feel more comfortable with a right handed 1B to platoon with him. I do wonder if Diaz will get some work this spring at 1st, which would allow Gregor Blanco to compete for LF and have it be his spot to lose. I really think if Blanco continues to shine as he has the last nine months or so that he could start the season in LF. That would leave Langerhans on the bench with B. Pena, Woodward, Aybar, and Diaz. While not an intimidating bench, it is one I could live with.

By Reality Check

January 18, 2007 03:10 PM | Link to this

John A, the Nasty Boys featured Hal Morris and Todd Benzinger at first base and Mariano Duncan at second. Those guys made only 24 errors between them all season long. Pitching, hitting AND defense is needed to field a championship team. The Braves obtained a wealth of one key ingredient at the expense of the other two.

By CC Rider

January 18, 2007 03:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, Do you think the Braves would go into the season with Thorman batting against lefties? It seems that Bobby has always tended to break a young position player into the starting lineup with a platoon situation when possible. If so, who do you know we could afford, acquire or already have that might fit. Does anyone know how Thorman faired against lefties in the minors.

By JasonInMaine

January 18, 2007 03:15 PM | Link to this

I think Gonzalez would be a great addition, but in conjunction with another move such as getting Baldelli. I know we have been obsessing over him, and some will hate the mention of it, but this is the last move the Braves need to make! If they can get Baldelli to play LF and be in place to take over if Andruw walks next year, we have our LF (cheap), Plan B for next year, our leadoff hitter, and a dominant pen. I wish the Rays would accept Davies, Salty, and Escobar! They have a surplus of outfields, and there is no one that is going to give them two SP, especially with the way the market exploded this year for average pitchers.

Regards,

Jason

By TennesseePaul

January 18, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this

DOB: Thanks for the new blog and hard work.

I think we’ll be set this season as is but I still don’t think JS is done making moves. How could he when most of our top prospects play the same position. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Salty switch positions as well. Thorman could be outstanding at 1B but if Salty comes back to life this season, Thorman is going to have to turn into a monster to keep his job. No pressure Thor. McCann already turned into the Monster so now it’s firstbase or trade.

I think the defense will shape up alright. If Giles was able to learn from Hubbard, Kelly should be able to. And I don’t think Thor is going to be a massive step back. Besides, Prado could really show well and from all accounts he is the better defender.

GO BRAVES

By 22oz

January 18, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this

Breaking News: The Braves have just signed Brian Jordan for 1 Year, 1 million to platoon with Thorman and provide “veteran leadership”. Just kidding, but don’t be surprised if it happens.

By David

January 18, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this

Fantastic that we have a great pen now no worries there…I think we are missing the obvious here…we just lost 32 HR a year. Now we have a non-proven rookie with bad hands and no confidence at first, and a second baseman that is either a rookie or has never played second base. WE HAVE TO HAVE RUNS AND BE IN THE LEAD TO MAKE OUR PEN WORK! This was an awful trade!

By KC

January 18, 2007 03:19 PM | Link to this

DOB: You seem to speak highly of Tanyon Sturtze… but as I look at his numbers, I can’t really understand why. Do you really think he’s going to have a job in this bullpen?? To me, there are 6 spots locked up: The big-3, plus McBride, Yates, and Villarreal.

That only leaves one spot, and several good candidates: Boyer, Paronto, Sturtz, Stockman, and Devine. Sturtze may have a chance of wining a job, but I don’t understand why you would rank him above everyone but Wickman, Gonzalez, Soriano, and McBride. Is there something about this guy (Sturtze) that I don’t know about??

By Reality Check

January 18, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this

And isn’t it amazing how much less talented a player LaRoche became overnight? Watch him rake with the Pirates, Lew, and come back and tell me in June that Thorman’s made you forget him.

By Lew

January 18, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this

You naysayers are missing the forest for the trees. We play in a division with the Mets (with the MLB equivalent of a joke rotation), the Phillies (who no matter how much they improve their staff, they still have to pitch at that stadium), the Marlins (who have two (at least) very overused young pitchers due for a melt down, and a team of kids who probably won’t all overachieve this year, and the Nationals (need I sya anything more)? Just what the hell are you all worried about? I was never a Rochy basher, but the guy had a good 1/2 season and was our #7 hitter. We didn’t just pull a Red Sox and trade Babe Ruth for a sack of used balls. We got a stud to help us for at least 3 years-CHEAP! We got what looks like the infielder/ lead off hitter of the future. We also still have four players (MCCann, Chipper, Francoeur, and Andruw), who hit 25-41 HR last year, all of whom are capable of knocking in 100 runs. Add to that Edgar Renteria’s 16HR and 70+RBI and we still have a formidable offense. All we have to have from a leadoff hitter to equal last year is .262 with 11HR. I will bet anyone right now that KJ can handle THAT with no problem. Rant on Doom and Gloomers (and Ernesto). We are fine. What a bullpen. What an improved rotation as a result. Amen and Selah!

By jb

January 18, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this

I hate to see ol’ “no chin” LaRoche go, but when you are dealing with a mid-level frozen payroll, you gotta give up something to get something and JS is doing the best he can. Pitching wins and its lots easier to find and develope power hitting first basemen than it is to find reliable hard throwing left handed setup men/closers. When they are holding all those late leads this year that were being blown last season, I think most folks opinion on this trade will improve.

By Fed Up

January 18, 2007 03:27 PM | Link to this

Great bullpen move. But now we have an infield full of amateurs. The only way this makes sense is if CJ moves to first. Then we put Aybar at third and let him leadoff.

By Shaun

January 18, 2007 03:28 PM | Link to this

This is my final remark, then I’ll drop the subject:

It’s still situational as to whether a strikeout is better or worse than other outs. It depends on a lot of things—game situation, baserunners’ skills, batter’s skills, etc.

And no one has addressed the fact that strikeout totals don’t really have any relation to runs scoring totals. Looking at the strikeout rankings don’t really tell you a whole lot about the runs scoring rankings—look for yourself.

But how often a team makes outs is very telling when it comes to run scoring. Looking at out rate rankings tell you a whole lot about the runs scored rankings—again, look for yourself.

The numbers don’t lie—strikeouts are a big deal because they are outs but it’s much more important to avoid outs than it is to make certain types of outs. Plenty of teams throughout baseball history have made most of their outs by way of the strikeout but have finished at or near the top in scoring runs. How do you explain that? I’ll tell you how—the rate at which you make outs is more important than how you make outs. And, I’ll say it one more time, don’t take my word for it! I’m not pulling this out of my backside. I’m just regurgitating what the evidence shows us. Look it up.

By kdbanks

January 18, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this

I remember the days when the Braves used to trade 2 or 3 “prospects” and get a starting position player or top line pitcher. Now we have to trade our starting first basemen and a starting pitcher to get two relivers? This kills me. I understand that salary constraints force us to cling to prospects and dump higher salaried veterans, but I hate to see it. That being said, at least Adam went to a team that is definately not going to be winning the Series anytime soon, so we won’t have to watch that and wonder what could have been.

Our fine GM may have overreacted to our bullpen needs, but I can’t blame him. Last year was tough to watch and at least this year we won’t blow late game leads. We just might not get too many leads to start with.

By Glass Half Full

January 18, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do you think the Braves will be looking to sign a veteran 1st baseman to platoon with Thorman (and please don’t say they’re giving Brian Jordan a “look”)?

By geauxbraves2000

January 18, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

I may be missing something, but aren’t the Braves going to have to make another move, either trade for or sign a backup firstbaseman? Look at the Cubs last year when Lee went down, they had no true first baseman to fill in for him.

Geaux Braves!!

By Glass Half Full

January 18, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

Or is Chris Woodward the backup for 1st and 2nd?

By Lew

January 18, 2007 03:36 PM | Link to this

Everyone is having conniptions about our lack of defense. Has anyone bothered to check Thorman’s stats? He has had Fielding averages of between .990 and .992 since 2003. His worst season was with Myrtle Beach (high A) where he had 8 errors in 1056 Total chances. Y’all-this is not exactly Dr. Strangeglove (does anyone remember Dick Stuart)? We have seen Hubbard work wonders with Giles at second, transforming him from a defensive liability to, at the very least, a above average defender. Kelly Johnson is a natural shortstop, not an outfielder. His transition is, by all reports, going quite well (read the Braves’ website). I fail to see what everyone is bent out of shape about. For 14 years we had superior pitching and won. Last year the pitching sucked and we lost (even with an explosive offense). Does this not make sense to everyone? Our pitching is now superior again and our offense is far from departed. I wish Roachy well.

By Voice of Reason

January 18, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this

David: Awful trade? Bad hands? Why would you say Thorman has bad hands? He is a legitimate 1b, albeit not as smooth as LaRoche, but he’s not Roberto “Hands of Stone” Duran, either. And while he may not hit 32 HR’s this year, 20 isn’t far fetched. I can live with Thorman at 1B. My question now is this: since Thor won’t be getting the starts in LF that were expected, who will? BC and JS obviously aren’t looking toward Diaz or Langy to hold it down, so who will? It seems as though the 2B question has been somewhat answered with the off-season work of KJ and Prado. Every regular spot seems set except LF. Any indications DOB?

By ernesto

January 18, 2007 03:41 PM | Link to this

Maybe Jurries will come back to his old spring training form. What is it about Thorman that has everyone so geeked?

By ernesto

January 18, 2007 03:42 PM | Link to this

I am anti-this trade, but on an upnote it will sound a lot cooler to be rootign for “Gonzo” than “Roachy” I must admit.

By JakeB

January 18, 2007 03:42 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget Blayne Boyer, if he is able to come back successfully. We really could have used him last year.

If Boyer comes back, I bet that at least one of the “other guys” will need to be capable of serious, 3+ innings of long relief. Making either Wickman or our two newly acquired setup men go more than one inning would seem to raise serious health concerns.

By Kieran, Long Island Brave Fan

January 18, 2007 03:43 PM | Link to this

I understand how good the pitching could potentially be, especially since a good bullpen lightens the load on teh starters, but can we look at how potentially Anemic this offense could be?? I mean now instead of having 3 guys in Diaz, Thorman, and Langerhans competing for 1 spot in left feild, now 2 of the three are going to be starting. Does anyone remember how weak kelly johnson looked at times to years ago? Or how pathetic his at bats were in the playoffs vs the Astros, specifically in the 18 inning epic? And if (and when) Chipper Jones goes down? Willie Aybar?? So there could very well be a long string of games where we are seeing Langerhans, Thorman, Aybar, and Kelly Johnson and a pitch occupying more then half of the lineup. Thats very scary to me. In the paraphrased words of John Smoltz, what good am I as the closer if my team cant get me the lead. This trade may have bled them dry.

By Reality Check

January 18, 2007 03:44 PM | Link to this

Oh, I’m sorry, Lew — I misunderstood you. I thought the goal was to be the best team in baseball and win the World Series. I assumed the thrill of being king of the National League Least wore off about eight or nine titles ago.

If being better than the Mets is all you care about, then it’s all good.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 03:47 PM | Link to this

Didn’t mean to overstate possible role of Sturtze. No, I don’t think it’s a given that he’s going to nail down a spot, but I know the Braves intend to have him move into the ‘pen soon as he’s ready, which is only reason they gave him a guaranteed $750,000, plus another $350,000 if he’s on the 25-man roster for even one day, plus up to $450,000 in bonuses (though he won’t hit many of those).

Does that sound like a guy they’re not counting on pretty strongly? Didn’t say i saw the wisdom of that signing, but just stated fact that he’s there, and they wanted him enough to give him that much (for a team that’s counting pennies).

He did have 78 innings in career-high 64 appearances (one start) for the Yanks in 2005, before he hurt the shoulder last year. Had a decent .257 opp average and .329 OBP that year, including .237 average in 97 ABs with runners in scoring position. (Hey, just trying to find some nuggets of hope).

But then again, if others are pitching well and Sturtze doesn’t show anything, they’re probably not going to kick someone to the curb just to make room for him. But chances are pretty good, I’d say, that someone will be off to a mediocre first month or two and they’ll not have a hard time finding a place for him….

As for defense, I don’t know that they’ll be particularly bad on the right side. Could be. But maybe Kelly will surprise me. I wrote a 30-inch story on his work with Hubby, etc, that was supposed to run today before the trade displaced it. That story should run Monday, I think.

By KM

January 18, 2007 03:48 PM | Link to this

DOB, It appears the Braves’ payroll is currently down by over $4 million from last year. Here are the 2006 salaries of players no longer with the team:

Reitsma ($2.75 million) Thomson ($4.75) Giles ($3.85) Laroche ($420,000) H. Ramirez ($2.2) Pratt ($850) Jordan ($700) Sosa ($2.2 million)

Total reduction: $17.72 million from last year.

Additions:

Soriano ($1.2) Wickman ($6.5) Gonzalez ($2.2) Villareal’s raise will be, worst case, $840,000
Woodward ($850) Sturtz ($750) B Pena (presumably replacing Pratt) ($300) Thorman (presumably replacing Jordan) ($300)

Total additions: $12.94 million

Difference: $4,780,000

Not sure what non arbitration eligible players’ raises are, but can they be in excess of $1 million total? It doesn’t appear from information available online that any of the players under long-term contracts have salaries that are going up from 2006 to 2007.

Am I missing something or forgetting someone?

By Carolina Lady

January 18, 2007 03:49 PM | Link to this

“and the Braves were having one of the worst Junes in recorded history.”

Well, actually there was one, DOB. It was back when some of the hunters were between mastodon hunts and one of them decided to throw a rock which one of the others then tried to hit with his club. It became a contest to see who could hit the rock the most - but they were pretty bad.

True! Lew told me. He was there.

I’m going to miss Adam. WHO is on first??

:-)))

By rammerjammer

January 18, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Thorman’s done all he can in the minors and it makes sense to get him in the lineup. It’s reasonable to expect his first season numbers to be similar to LaRoche’s (324 AB, 13 HR, 45 RBI, .278 BA).

Chris Woodward might see some time if a platoon is needed. He played 199 innings at 1B in 2005, with only two errors.

By Drummerdad

January 18, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Well whaddaya know!!! The O’Brien Braves Blog finally has some fresh meat to devour. Breathe new life in here.

I’ll miss Adam, but hooray for the trade!! You gotta do something. That said, I doubt that JS is done. Feels like he’ll be looking for a position player to either platoon at first, or maybe he makes another trade to get a future center fielder to replace Andruw after he has his torrid final year in ATL.

By ncscoots

January 18, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Infield defense is shaping up as, well, average at best. Thor is no butcher over there at 1B, but he’ll look “awful” following Adam’s glove; Edgar is a solid SS, but I don’t believe he’s quite the Gold Glove he once was; and Chipper’s defense, while underrated by many, IMO, won’t make folks forget Scott Rolen. Which brings me to Martin Prado, and frankly I’m still shocked that it does, LOL. But the guy did hit near .300 in the minors, and no matter how much work KJ is putting in with Hubbard, I’m betting Prado is the superior defender. Frankly, I don’t much give a darn who hits leadoff, and if Prado can hit a single lick and provide a superior glove, he’s the guy I want at 2B. Hudson and Hampton, especially, expect to deliver a lot of ground balls, and SOMEBODY at 2B is gonna need some range to get ‘em. Thor not only has less range than AL, but he’s a right-handed glove, also, restricting him just a little bit more (but I still look forward to seeing his swing every day…shh-weet)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 03:53 PM | Link to this

It really amazes me how quickly opinions can change. I remember back in July LaRoche was about to be hung. I got blasted for suggesting we trade him to the Tigers or Yankees. I heard time and time again how he wasn’t worth a bag of balls. Now, he is the greatest 1B to ever play? I don’t like the trade that much but quit being dramatic. The move is a solid one and I have always said you have to give something to get something.

Don’t underestimate what a good pen can do to the mindset of the rotation. I honestly believe that part of the issue last year was that the starters felt they had to throw 8 shutout innings every start and hope the offense scored 10 runs. A great pen helps the offense as well. While this team scored plenty of runs last year, the offense was unbalanced and it did press at times. The hitters knew that they had to score 7+ runs every game to have a fighting chance. While I do wish another immediate impact player would have been acquired, I do believe that this near lights out bullpen will help the starting rotation, the hitters, and the overall confidence of the team.

I do believe that another deal is in the works. With all due respect many people didn’t think this deal would get done and the roster was basically set. I don’t think the roster is set. JS in his own subtle way said that the moves were to come. The Braves play things really close to the vest. I knew this Gonzales trade was going to happen as soon as the Braves said nothing was significantly being discussed and the talk went silent.

I could be wrong. But, I really think Alex Rios could be in the crosshairs. Tim Hudson at $6.5 mil is a helluva bargain in this market. And, yes, that is true for the Braves but they could get Chacin or Marcum along with Rios in a trade or simply place Villereal in the rotation with Smoltz, Hampton, Davies, and James. The pen would be: Wickman, Gonzales, Soriano, McBride, and Sturtze (in May) with Paronto, Yates, Stockman, Moylan, Boyer, Cormier, and Devine competing for the two remaining spots. I actually think Cormier would be better served in the minors. As I have stated before the Braves could go after Ohka or Armas. It seems a little strange that Armas’ name hasn’t been mentioned in any substantial rumors. Sounds like a JS underground negotiating to me.

By Lew

January 18, 2007 03:55 PM | Link to this

Reality Check (or Stinky in Disguise)-You can’t win the WS if you don’t get to the playoffs first, which we did not last year. Don’t be such an a$$. If you can’t see the point I was making, then you are truly blind.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 03:56 PM | Link to this

If I had to guess now, regarding backup 1B (a lot of folks are asking about that), I’d guess it’ll come from someone already on the roster, perhaps Woodward (he’s played 42 games there) or Diaz (who worked there quite a bit last year in pregame, etc), both right-handed hitters. But I don’t know if they plan to use a straight platoon or what. They’ve given no indication.

By the way, Diaz has a .307 career average with seven homers and an .824 OPS in 218 at-bats vs. lefties (and .303 with two HRs and .773 OPS in 198 ABs vs. righties)

By Stinky

January 18, 2007 03:56 PM | Link to this

Lew, thanks for vindicating my view about the sale of the Braves to Liberty not being a done deal. You certainly live in the right part of the country to like waffles :-).

As for the ‘vendetta’? WTFRU talking about? I love DOB. He aint heavy. He’s my Bro. Just gently ribbing a pal
about a trade he pooh poohed because Bucco Blog was the source. And the little poke about his taste in music was certainly not high amperage vitriol. So don’t go stirring up trouble. I have forgiven DOB of his many transgressions against me.

As for Thorman making anybody forget LaRoche, that only applies to Bobby Cox. He gets his 2nd platoon back. So I bet Mrs. Cox woke up with a big smile this morning.

By Lew

January 18, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this

For all freaked out about Thormans fielding. He averages .992. Roche’s Fielding avg. last year was .995. Pujol’s is between .986-.996. Ryan Howard’s is .994 (at it’s best), Carlos Delgado’s is .992 and Nick Johnson of the Nationals has a .993. I fail to see what all of the negativity with Thorman’s fielding is all about.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 04:02 PM | Link to this

And for what it’s worth (obviously it’s a small sample of work), Thorman hit .253 with four homers and a .735 OPS in 91 at-bats vs. righties as a rookie, and .189 with one homer, 11 strikeouts and a .609 OPS vs. lefties. Again, very small sample.

I’ll try to find his splits in the minors.

By Lew's Mother-in-Law

January 18, 2007 04:07 PM | Link to this

What did you mean, Lewie, by the remark “From personal experience, avoiding your mother-in-law is helpful, also”? I will be awaiting your response, Lewie dear.

By Adam

January 18, 2007 04:08 PM | Link to this

I like the trade. The Braves didn’t have problems scoring runs last year at all, but they did have problems keeping the other team from scoring late in games. Giles didn’t produce much last year and although LaRoche carried the Braves for about a month after the All-Star break, he wasn’t anything special before July and the Braves were scoring a ton of runs then. Hopefully Johnson can be average defensively and I am betting he is going to hit. I like the aggressiveness of Thorman and hopefully he cut his teeth enough last year to be productive this year. Only place I don’t feel real comfortable about is left field. Langy isn’t the answer and not sure Diaz is either.

By TheSouthernJackAss

January 18, 2007 04:10 PM | Link to this

Stinky, did Mrs. Stinky wake up with a big smile, too? Call me and I’ll let you know.

By Lost at the end of old blog

January 18, 2007 04:10 PM | Link to this

October 2007:

(phone rings)

Chipper: Uhhh, Hello?

Adam: Uhhh, Yeah I’d like a large thick-crust Canadian Bacon.

Chipper: Uhh, What?

Adam: Oh Sorry. Who is this?

Chipper: This is, uhh Chipper.

Adam: Oh yeah, Hey Chipper, ya’ wanna go huntin’ tomorrow?

Chipper: Uhhh, Roachy, I can’t go. I’ve got game five in the Bronx tomorrow.

Adam: Oh ok, well, uhhh, Can I hunt your stand then?

Chipper: Uhhh, I guess. What’s wrong with your stand?

Adam: Uhhhhhh

Chipper: Uhhh, just one thing. You have to give some of the deer meat to Wicky.

Adam: Huh?

Chipper: Uhh, yeah, I bet Wicky a breakfast that he couldn’t knock Bobby’s, uhh, hat off his head with a chaw before I could. Dude nailed it first try, so I owe him a breakfast. Uhhh, He wants two backstraps, four packages of ground, and a whole deer ham still on the bone.

Adam: Huh?

Chipper: Uhhh, later….

Adam: …Uhhh, could I change that to a thin crust with an order of pita bread?

(Click)

By BB FAN

January 18, 2007 04:12 PM | Link to this

I like the trade a lot. It solidifies the bullpen. I believe the Braves bullpen is the best in the NL.

And yes, that includes the Mets. I’m not sure why everybody thinks the Mets have such a great bullpen. They lost Chad Bradford (2.90 ERA in 70 games), Roberto Hernandez (3.48 in 22 games after being acquired to replace the injured Sanchez) and Darren Oliver (3.44 in 81 innings and the key long reliever for helping their horrible rotation). Guillermo Mota is suspended for 50 games for using performance enhancers. Who knows how productive he will be when he comes back. Duaner Sanchez will be coming back from a dislocated shoulder or broken arm from a taxi cab accident. He’s another who may not come back as sharp. It’s hard to say. There big signing was Scott Schoeneweis who was horrible last year. He is tough on lefties, but that’s it. So they gave 10.8 million to a lefty specialist. And their other big signing was Jorge Sosa. We all know how well he did last year. Now add the spotlight of NY City and Sosa may completely crumble from the pressure. There’s talk of them trading Heilman for a starter.

Anyway, I really think Thorman can hit 20-25 homers and drive in 70-80 runs. Lillibridge looks like he can be the leadoff hitter in a year. He knows how to take a walk and he hits for average and can steal bases. He’s the kind of hitter the Braves need in their system.

If Blanco, Diaz or Langerhans can’t handle left field in 07, I’d like to see the Braves pick somebody up. Of course Baldelli would be the best fit, but the Rays are asking too much. I really think Blanco could win the job with a solid spring. The guy knows how to take a walk and can steal some bases.

By Lew

January 18, 2007 04:13 PM | Link to this

I knew the Whiny Little Jerk was here. My Mother In Law (even after 32 years of marriage) would never call me dear (or Lewie).

By MBATL

January 18, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this

RJIB, a deal with Toronto for Rios (for Hudson) does make a lot of sense. I read that they’ve got money to spend.

Either Villarreal, Soriano, or Cormier - or one of the guys you mentioned - could step in as 5th starter.

It would make ‘07 kind of a transitional year, but would set the table for the future.

Lose Hudson’s salary, prepare to lose AJ and his salary, settle CF, leadoff in ‘08 may be set with Lillibridge… man, gotta wear shades.

By Chip Larry

January 18, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this

Uh, I don’t like the trade. Rochie and Chipper Jones were great buddies and would go a huntin’ together. Now, Rochie will be in Pittsburgh and uh, Chipper will be unhappy. I think Chipper should be able to pick who he throws to at first base and I think Chipper would pick, uh, Rochie. Undo the trade now and bring Rochie back next year. I don’t think Gonzales hunts or fishes - probably an intellectual like McCann and Francoeur reading all the time.

By B

January 18, 2007 04:19 PM | Link to this

Seriously, stop putting song lyrics in your blogs. It’s pointless, and all we want to know is about the Braves.

By Ron Roberts

January 18, 2007 04:20 PM | Link to this

One of the first of John Schuerholz’ key acquisitions for the Atlanta Braves when he arrived prior to 1991 were defense-minded. The Braves signed Terry Pendleton and Sid Bream to shore up a perviously-porous infield. Bolstering a sloppy defense behind his young stable of starters gave those pitchers confidence in the guys behind ‘em.

I fail to see how creating the gaping wound we’ll call the right side of our infield (as of now, anyhow) is much of a confidence-builder for our pitching staff. Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think being green at 2B and 1B at the same time will cost us as many games as our bullpen did last year, but I do think we eliminated a good bit of our bullpen problems ismply by re-signing Wickman! Adding Soriano ws even better! But this trade, to me, is overkill, if the goal is to win now.

Because while the Braves assuredly have addressed the bullpen problem, they’ve now created two more… lowered offensive expectations (with no Andruw Jones heir-apparent in sight, yet) and now lowered defensive expectations ont he right side of our infield.

Our options now are to combo a rookie 1B with a guy coming off a year on the DL and only his second real MLB season on the field, or throw in a utility guy at one spot and a rookie at the other, or vice versa.

I could see going into the season with one position as a question mark, but both? On the same side of the infield? You make this trade if you have something to address this problem already lined up, trigger ready to be pulled. So knowing Schuerholz is good at his game, I keep waiting on the other shoe to fall, but I’ve yet to see it. I’m a little worried.

Great bullpens don’t mean squat if we don’t get to ‘em with enough runs on the board to have a lead for ‘em to hold, either because we didn’t score enough or we kicked the ball around the infield.

And lest we forget the occasional Chipper Jones downtime (or DL stint) that’ll have Willie Aybar playing with our utility/slash/rookie right-side infield.

Think our ground ball-inducing pitchers are excited about this?

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 04:20 PM | Link to this

KM, Andruw’s salary goes up from $13 mill in 2006 to $13.5 in 2007, Hudson’s from $4 mill to $6 mill, and Hampton’s from $13.5 to $14.5.

The guys you have as making around $300,000 will actually be around $400,000 (major league minimum climbs from $327,000 to $380,000 in 2007).

By N8

January 18, 2007 04:23 PM | Link to this

Lew

I looked up Thorman’s defensive “numbers” as well, out of curiosity. While I agree with you that his fielding percentage is MORE THAN ADEQUATE. It’s the errors from other players throws that LaRoche was great at. That doesn’t show up on LaRoche’s “stats”, because if he misses those throws, the error goes to the other guy.

So while I hear your point (that Thorman will be very servicable at 1B), he more than likely will never be as naturally, well…….NATURAL at 1B.

As for your other comments the last couple of days, I couldn’t agree more with you. I think we’ll be fine. In fact some of my concerns with guys like Hudson, Hampton and even Smoltz with his age (hell, the WHOLE rotation was a question mark as far as stamina goes), have now basically dissappeared. Hudson seemed to fall apart late in games, Chuck may have trouble the 3rd time through the order in his sophomore season, as for Hampton, who knows what we’ll get from him. And yes, Smoltz isn’t getting any younger, and judging by his “september swoon”, it’s OBVIOUS that his workload caught up to him late in the year. So not only does the Gonzalez (along with re-signing Wicky and trading for Soriano) solidify the pen, it makes ALL of our starters MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE, IMO. Not to mention, I think Kelly Johnson (provided he’s healthy), witl be JUST FINE at 2B. Not sure why I feel that way, but everybody questioned Giles defensive skills too, and KJ was a SS coming up, so it’s not like he’s NEVER played infield.

I think the greater good of the bullpen will outway any offensive dropoff, IMO.

So I’m going on the record right now, that I STILL don’t quite believe that Tim Hudson is going to revert to his ALLSTAR form this year. I DO HOWEVER, believe that by him not having to go beyond 7 innings too often will give him a greater chance to succeed, more often. Just to clear that up, since you all (Head Coach), know I have my doubts about him. I HOPE LIKE HELL, he proves me wrong. I be the first to admit I was wrong.

By Ron Roberts

January 18, 2007 04:25 PM | Link to this

MLB.com free agent tracker lists the following “available” first basemen, still… (I’ll rank ‘em in order I’d like to have ‘em, salary cap be damned)

1. Darin Erstad

2. Eduardo Perez

3. Ryan Klesko

4. Brian Jordan

**YIKES!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 04:28 PM | Link to this

Here is a reason why I believe that something else is also in the works. I have a hard time believing that Lillibridge was the deal breaker. All indications are that Duffy was never even mentioned by either side. I am sure the Braves asked for a starter but Littlefield has been steadfast in his stance that he would not give up a starter. I can’t believe that JS just now realized that the Pirates weren’t giving up a starter. By all accounts it was the Braves who were stalling and not pulling the trigger on the deal. That tells me that JS was attempting to get something else lined up and wanted whatever it is in place before pulling the trigger. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.

This deal could have been made back in December or two weeks ago for that matter. It is apparent the Braves weren’t waiting out Littlefield because if they were the deal wouldn’t have been made now. It is not like another team was on the verge. Yes, the D-Backs had discussed Tracy but like the Braves wanted a second player. My guess is either Duffy or another pitcher. You have to wonder why this deal took so long. I understand the entire Soriano deal but it seemed apparent the Braves wanted both from the start. It makes me wonder how truly accurate was the reported three way deal with the Yankees was. The Braves continuously said that they were talking to the Pirates but it wasn’t anything that serious. Well, that was obviously not true.

We all know how slow of a worker and how methodical JS can be. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I really do believe that JS has something else in mind here. I can’t believe that he is not going to attempt to replace LaRoche’s production either by acquiring a power bat or someone who can get on base and create havoc. Because as someone did ask, what happens if Thorman goes down. No viable backup exists.

By Nader

January 18, 2007 04:29 PM | Link to this

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If you are a lonely blogger, living all alone now in a mobile home, please check your furnace so we can keep blogging with you.

By Lew's Mother-in-Law

January 18, 2007 04:33 PM | Link to this

Lewie, Stinky did not make this post. NO WAY!

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 04:34 PM | Link to this

B: Seriously, no.

By Stinky

January 18, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this

Lew, I don’t know the answer, but how many DPs did Thorman start and how many did LaRoche start. How many times did either sluff off the DP and step on the bag? I don’t know, but I did have every confidence that if the 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 could’ve been turned last year, that Roche would have turned it. Can’t say that for anybody else the Braves have ever had playing first base.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 04:40 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), you wrote: “All indications are that Duffy was never even mentioned by either side…. By all accounts it was the Braves who were stalling and not pulling the trigger on the deal. …That tells me that JS was attempting to get something else lined up and wanted whatever it is in place before pulling the trigger. I could be wrong but I don’t think so…. This deal could have been made back in December or two weeks ago for that matter.”

COUPLE OF THINGS: I don’t know why you think the deal could have been done in December. Pirates didn’t want to give up any of their top prospects, and the deal that the Braves pulled from table at winter meeting was straight up LaRoche for Gonzalez.

They pulled it from the table after getting Soriano for Ramirez, because the Braves were no longer desperate to get a setup man. They figured why trade LaRoche at the winter meetings if they could hold out and try to get more? (I think they should’ve gotten more for him than they did, but getting a possible future SS and giving up only a fringe-prospect OF is certainly a better deal than straight-up LaRoche for Gonzalez, so waiting certainly only helped the Braves in that regard).

You’ve been reading too much of a certain other source if you’re now stating with authority that the Braves never asked for Duffy. WRONG. They did. Pirates flatly refused, but Braves asked. Just fact.

Also, Braves inquired about the starting pitchers and Pirates made it clear they weren’t parting with any of the three top young guys.

By Braves20

January 18, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

deals like this bring back haunting images of Ernie Broglio or Jim Fregosi (yes, I know, he is one of us now). Guys like Soriano and Gonzalez are one pitch away from 18 month surgeries. a power hitting first baseman with a super glove making three mil - priceless!

By ncscoots

January 18, 2007 04:43 PM | Link to this

Ron, I think “gaping wound” is overstating it a little, re the defensive right side of the infield. Thorman won’t play D as well as LaRoche, but he’s no Carlos Delgado, either. He’ll be an average defender, but he won’t make you cringe on every roller to the bag. And I don’t see that KJ has a lock on 2B, yet. The glove there is TBD.

By Don

January 18, 2007 04:45 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure which is worse, Thorman and Johnson/Prado as the right side of the infield or those song lyrics. It’s a close call.

By Chop Chop

January 18, 2007 04:46 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget 1B Kala Kaaihue down in the low minors. He struggled at Myrtle Beach last year, but he certainly has the power (28 combined homers in ‘06) and enough patience (an insane .407 combined OBP, .458 at Rome while only .342 at Myrtle) to help him continue to progress through the minors. He turns 22 at the end of March, so he still has some room to grow.

By the dude

January 18, 2007 04:52 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if I like this trade or not…it’s a head scratcher. One one hand you get a dominant young pitcher for Adam LaRoach…sounds good to me. Then you look at the numbers. You’re trading a 30+ homerun 100 RBI’s for a guy who pitched 60 or so innings last year. hmmmm

Just hoping JS can pull a first baseman out of his rear like he did with Julio. Thorman is not the answer. To compete this year, the Braves still need to pickup 1 offensive player at 1b, 2b, or LF. I like the idea of Johnson at 2b, so let’s look for a 1b or LF.

By Ron Roberts

January 18, 2007 04:57 PM | Link to this

NCScoots…

You may have it right about Thorman’s glove, and I’ll even go so far as to say he’ll probably do fairly. That being said, we’re one Chipper Jones injury from having Aybar, Renteria, KJ/Prado/Woodard and Thorman round out our infield (left-to-right).

Is anybody confident in that? NeverMIND how it looks on a lineup card!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 04:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, I apologize for being wrong. I read from a few different places that the Braves didn’t ask for Duffy. I understand that at the winter meetings the deal was for a one for one swap. But, a little later on it was reported that the Pirates offered four players for LaRoche and Davies. Now, the other three aside from Gonzales weren’t worth crap but a deal could have been worked out. If I’m wrong, I will eat crow and admit it. But, I really do think another move will be made or at least attempted to be made. For what it is worth I’m glad the Pirates said no to Duffy.

By Chop Chop

January 18, 2007 04:58 PM | Link to this

Mike Gonzalez

Not bad, I’d say.

While it’s true that Soriano’s arm may fall off, I don’t think there are too many Braves fans sad to see Horacio go. As for the Gonzalez deal, many of us mocked LaRoche in the first half of the season last year (due to his mental blunders and poor hitting), but he got on some meds, put on his typical second-half surge and had good numbers at the end of the year. Unless Gonzalez gets hurt, this deal should be just fine for the Braves. It’s easier to find a first baseman who can hit for power and drive in some runs than a reliever who is actually good from year to year. If the defense at first base costs the Braves a chance to make the playoffs, I’ll just become a Georgia Force fan or something.

Besides, after last year, I can’t complain if Schuerholz wants to bolster the pen. If Gonzalez were in his mid-thirties, this would be an obviously bad trade. He isn’t, so I’ll give Schuerholz props for trying to shore up a weakness.

By Spider29

January 18, 2007 05:01 PM | Link to this

I’m elated at the thought of having a dominant bullpen which is something the Braves haven’t had in recent memory. I am sad to see LaRoche go. We will miss his smooth defense and awakening bat. All Braves fans will be pulling for Thorman to develop into a good first baseman who will give us some offense. I guess I am apprehensive about having two pretty much unknown qualities on the right side of the infield. But the bullpen! Wow! All in all, good job by the GM

By rammerjammer

January 18, 2007 05:13 PM | Link to this

It’s a good trade. Braves get what they need and Pirates do too. Both teams are better because they both addressed their greatest weakness and took a calculated gamble that they can withstand the loss.

The Pirates, folks, are handing the closer role to a 34-year-old who’s only done it the five weeks Gonzalez was out. I’d say they have more reason to be nervous than the Braves…at least Thorman has a strong minor league pedigree and just turned 25.

And since JS wisely believed you don’t trade a regular for a reliever straight up, he got our leadoff man (albeit, probably not until 2008) and heir-apparent to Renteria, and only parted with a low-level prospect.

All in all, great work again JS.

By PopeVanIII

January 18, 2007 05:17 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do you know if the Braves have given any thought to signing Craig Wilson? I know we’re strapped for cash, but he likely could be had for Daryle Ward-ish money, and he would be one heck of a platoon partner with Thorman / reserve outfielder / emergency catcher.

Your thoughts?

By Jeff Gray

January 18, 2007 05:23 PM | Link to this

How long until Gonzalez and Soriano are available for Free Agency? I hope this is not another one year rental.

By summerteeth

January 18, 2007 05:25 PM | Link to this

DOB, ejoyed listening to you on Charlie Steiner’s XM show…good stuff.

By JC FROM UT

January 18, 2007 05:31 PM | Link to this

If I remember correctly, sometime in May or June, nearly everyone on this blog wanted Thorman called up and LaRoch sent anywhere. Now Thorman is up and for now is the first baseman with the bonus of having a dominant left handed reliver. I can’t understand why the same people are so upset. Agreed Thorman might not hit 30 HR but so what if he hits 20 with a lot more hustle. DOB: What happened to the thought that Elvis Andrus or Yunel Escober were the SS of the future? Is this new guy that much better and if so would this mean the others are expendable? Also I’ve heard nothing about Tyler Yates what is up with him?

By Plate Appearance

January 18, 2007 05:40 PM | Link to this

I’m really disappointed in the trade. I too, along with others felt that JS had already done enough toward dealing with last year’s bull pen ills.

LaRoche was really coming along. He had shortened his swing and really came into his own the second half of last year.

LaRoche is a PROVEN COMMODITY. While it’s clear, even as related to the Braves recent history, that pitching is much more difficult to predict — and can change from year to year. This was certainly clearly seen in the trades for Kolb, Baez, and Farnsworth — non of which worked out long term for the Braves.

I don’t like your judgment this time JS! And I don’t like giving up the whole right side of the Braves infield!

Think about it JS. You would have never traded fan favorites McCaan or Francoeur, yet arguably LaRoche had better numbers than both of them!

Thanks for the great years with the Braves Adam!! We’ll miss you! I only wish we fans had a vote in this process! I believe the Braves will regret down the road they let you “get away”!

But I’ll vote this way: I DON’T LIKE THIS TRADE JS! I DON’T LIKE IT AT ALL!

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 05:43 PM | Link to this

JC, right now I’d bet that either Elvis or the new guy will move to 2B eventually. That looks to be their middle infield of the future, but we know how fast this stuff can change. I’d say the new guy has a very, very good chance of being a lineup regular in two years or less.

By TennesseePaul

January 18, 2007 05:43 PM | Link to this

I turned a corner with LaRoche last season. Prior to, I wasn’t sold on this guy. He stuck out way, way to much and was super slow on the bases.
Thorman didn’t appear near as slow in the field last season. And, when Thor was sent back down, he didn’t crumble into a pile of nothingness as Jurries did. He went down and produced. His K/BB ratio wasn’t bad either, nearly a full point better than LaRoche last season.
I just can’t see this as the end of the world as some posts portray it. Thorman’s defense won’t be as slick as LaRoche’s but, and forgive me for remembering, he won’t make any bone head plays either. He won’t stand there and hold the ball instead of turning the double play. I doubt he’ll pull that first base slow moving daydream lollygag move either. And as far as offense, there’s no reason to think LaRoche won’t pull a Wally Joyner (who had only 1 30+ homer season in his career).
Also, there is this:
AB R H 2B 3B HR BB SO AVG
263 40 66 21 - 13 30 66 .251
That was LaRoche’s first half which is slightly better than his numbers with RISP for the whole season. And in previous years, he wasn’t a looker.
I didn’t say all that to bash LaRoche (he did have a monster 2nd half), but I just don’t think we’ll suffer as much as is implied by some of these posts.

By dannycardwell

January 18, 2007 05:44 PM | Link to this

guys, the future looks great. as good as adam is, thorman will be ok. anytime you can get great pitching, you have to take these kinds of chances which are very small. remember a couple years ago when we had 2 injury prone outfielders on the corners? chipper out half the year, our allstar catcher ruined for the year, and a pitching staff cut to shreds by injuries? our gm and bobby cox did the unthinkable by bringing up more than a hand full of kids from the minors that were not supposed to be ready for a couple years. there will be some bumps in the road at second and maybe a few at first, but there are still a lot of very talented kids that can and will do a good job. there is not a better teacher for infielders in baseball than glenn hubbard. it all starts and ends with pitching. if you have that the rest is doable. can you say reitsma and kolb? good men but not a good fit here. 2 years ago a lot of people here wanted nothing to do with roachy. trust bobby cox. this is the first time in a lot of years our general manager has earned his salary. trust the kids and bobby cox. im already jacked. thank god arthur blank didnt buy the team. we can barely afford tickets now. cant wait till april.

By Braves Fan

January 18, 2007 05:51 PM | Link to this

With LaRoche gone. What are the Braves plans for Salty? Keep him as a catcher or move him to Left field or First base? Do they envision to one day soon have Salty, Thorman, and McCann in the line-up at the same time? Or package him in a trade for Rocco or Crawford?

By Lew

January 18, 2007 06:05 PM | Link to this

Come on-How many of you even remember Thorman in the field at first? Probably none of you can remember a single play he made at first. Going strictly by Fielding Percentage, he ranks with every single starting first basemen in the NL. Someone mentioned taking errant throws from infielders-N*, I know you’re prone to nitpicking, but that one is almost ludicrous. The same with Stinky’s DP’s started. LaRoche was a good first baseman, possibly even should have won the Gold Glove last year. However, he was no Ozzie Smith type impact fielder at his position. Thorman is going to be fine. LaRoche was good for 1/2 a season. Very good, in fact. He should put up great numbers in Pittsburgh. I hope he does. But we need to get real here-we didn’t give up Albert Pujols. We’re not getting Rico Brogna to replace him, either.

By ellaguru

January 18, 2007 06:08 PM | Link to this

David, you’re from Kansas, dude. What’s with the Truckers lyrics? Shouldn’t you be a fan of, say, Kansas? Is Kansas even FROM Kansas?

I know you personally liked LaRoche, D. I’m sure players that don’t make your life a living hell are few and far between. In all, though, I think I’m pleased. Maybe see you at the Ron Sexsmith show. He’s from Canada :)

By Head Coach

January 18, 2007 06:09 PM | Link to this

DOB ,you covered all the bases except one. Who is going to be the back up at 1B behind Thorman ? I agree that Villarreal will be needed to possibly start a few games or even slide into the rotation should Hampton or Davies falter. Tanyon Sturtze has some experience as a starter and of course their is Cormier as a last resort. With other pitchers like Paronto , Yates , Stockman , Boyer , Devine , Moylan and Startup the Braves and Richmond bullpens will be deep.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 06:11 PM | Link to this

BRAVES HAVE THEIR NEW BACKUP or PLATOON 1B: They just signed Craig Wilson, who hit .251-17-49 in 125 games with the PIrates and Yankees in 2006.

More on that to come

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 06:17 PM | Link to this

and there’s the Daryle Ward hole filled. Wilson’s been a very good pinch-hitter in the past, at least a lot of home runs if i remember correctly. gotta look that up after i write something quick for online story

By Lew

January 18, 2007 06:20 PM | Link to this

Ellaguru-Actually, Kansas lived in Atlanta for a number of years and their violinist is from the Clearwater area. Who said JS doesn’t have a clue. Now Craig Wilson as backup. The Dude (or Homeboy Upstairs) hasn’t lost a step.

By The Stranger

January 18, 2007 06:22 PM | Link to this

Lew 03:23 PM wrote:

“I was never a Rochy basher, but the guy had a good 1/2 season and was our #7 hitter. We didn’t just pull a Red Sox and trade Babe Ruth for a sack of used balls. We got a stud to help us for at least 3 years-CHEAP! We got what looks like the infielder/ lead off hitter of the future. We also still have four players (MCCann, Chipper, Francoeur, and Andruw), who hit 25-41 HR last year, all of whom are capable of knocking in 100 runs. Add to that Edgar Renteria’s 16HR and 70+RBI and we still have a formidable offense. All we have to have from a leadoff hitter to equal last year is .262 with 11HR.”

Wurlitzer-worthy commentary on breaking Braves news. And I couldn’t agree more.

The Roche will be missed. The offense will not cease to be. Thorman will presumably get a chance to see how fat the ball can look from a pitcher who has McCann and the Jones boys at his back.

And it wasn’t what led off that kilt aught-six, it was what finished (or what was left unfinished) — like getting that icy cold beer at last call, then dumping it down your own shorts.

This season we get to drink last call.

By ernesto

January 18, 2007 06:23 PM | Link to this

Wilson is a windmill.

That being said, it’s not a bad signing, and if you’ve got field level seats you can look forward to lots of man-generated cooling this summer- Wilson, ‘Druw, Frenchy = 300 strike outs this year (that’s with Wilson platooning.)

By brian

January 18, 2007 06:23 PM | Link to this

It still would not suprise me if JS made another move with the surplus in the bullpen, but JS not only strengthened the bullpen with the Gonzalez move, but also strengthened the starting pitching.

With Wickman in the 9th and Soriano/Gonzalez in the 7th and 8th the starters need now to give us 6 strong innings. Look even at Hudson last year. A down year, but many games he was dominant for 5-6 innings then fell apart. A lot of starters probably overpitched and overthought each batter knowing they needed to go 8 to have any shot at a win with Wickman, and before Wickman probably felt they needed to go 9. We are much less likely to overuse our starters and it will be very reassuring to the offense and SP that get us a lead to the 7th and most nights the bullpen will take care of the rest.

Go Braves!

I like the signing of Wilson - Braves have had their eye on him for a while. Nice right handed bat - a big improvement over BJ and yes even over a 60 year old Franco

By N8

January 18, 2007 06:26 PM | Link to this

Lew

RELAX! (as Frankie would say)

I was AGREEING with you. I think Thorman will be just fine a 1B. I just think some people are underestimating LaRoches footwork, and smoothness around the bag, and just like DOB said, the guy used to be a pitcher, his THROWS to 2B on the 3-6-3 double plays were about as pretty as they come.

I’ve COME TO AGREE and even LIKE this trade. I do however agree with DOB, I believe that LaRoche’s “stock” was higher than just getting Gonzalez (especially with the possiblity of that elbow issue creeping back at sometime).

But, I think this trade helps our MOST IMMEDIATE need (bullpen depth, that has now turned into potential DOMINANCE), not to mention THE FUTURE with the prospect being thrown in.

So don’t go all “Dennis Green” on my a$$! I wasn’t “crowning” LaRoche in any way, shape or form. Though I think it’s a joke he wasn’t considered more heavily for the GG at 1B.

I like Thorman, kinda reminds me of a YOUNG Klesko. Klesko was alway one of my favorites. Laroche had grown into a FINE major league hitter and 1B, but he carries that “ho-hum” attitude that his manager and many other veterans in this organizations have carried for so long. Thorman seems like a GO-GETTER, Rah Rah, kinda guy. I LIKE THAT.

I FULLY expect us (just on the strength of our bullpen) to contend, much more than I did two months ago, and I thought we’d be fine, based on the assumption that all that went WRONG last season COULDN’T POSSIBLY HAPPEN AGAIN.

If (BIG IF), Hudson and Hampton even REMOTELY contribute and Chipper can stay reasonibly healthy, I think we have as good of shot as ANYBODY to take this all the way. And if you know me, (based on my posts), it’s been a while since I thought that way.

Mark it down. JS has us heading in the RIGHT direction, and that’s even with the presumed exit of Andruw Jones next offseason. This team is legitimately in the running for the NL East….BIG TIME.

I LIKE IT!

By ernesto

January 18, 2007 06:30 PM | Link to this

Just did a quick check, Wilson made 3.3 mil last year to go with his 122 strike outs. certainly, we’re not paying him that much right? Right? He did hit an impressive .333 when batting 4th, other than that he looks like a .250 guy who can maybe hit 20, I’m not sure what he’ll do platooning.

By Earl

January 18, 2007 06:33 PM | Link to this

Dave, you just took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to ask if the Braves might have any interest in Craig Wilson to platoon with Thorman. You could even use him as your third catcher.

I’m still not sure what to think of the trade, our defense will be affected for sure. I think it will all depend on how Thorman does and whether we get enough offense from 1st, 2nd, and left.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 06:33 PM | Link to this

I like Thorman. I think he will be a good 1B. I would be more comfortable with another 1B as a backup, but I think this guy has 25HR 75+RBI potential. I saw nothing to say he won’t be at least a reliable 1B defensively. I think at this point LaRoche is obviously the better player but Thorman is probably the better overall hitter.

It is too bad Escobar is scared to play 2B. If it wasn’t for his “issues” with 2B I believe he would be the opening day 2B. I think the acquisition of Lillibridge probably seals Escobar’s fate as far as getting traded. The question is now to whom. It’ll be interesting to see this Lillibridge kid in spring training.

I do worry about the offense a bit. I still think another deal is in the works but not necessarily to get another 1B. No matter what they may say the Braves don’t have confidence in Langerhans and Diaz to hold it down everyday in LF.

I do think the time is now to shop Hudson around. The Jays would listen. Hudson for Rios and perhaps one of their young pitchers sounds good to me. Maybe the Orioles. I would attempt to go after Bedard or Loween but I don’t know if the O’s would bite. Not to mention Hudson and Mazzone don’t exactly exchange Christmas cards. I think the Rangers could be another team to contact. Robinson Tejada and maybe Ian Kinsler sounds like a good deal. It looks like Kinsler is getting the shaft from the Rangers. They are wanting to hit him in the 9th hole which seems absurd. I still say the Cubs are another option. The Cubs want to get rid of Jacque Jones because he wants to leave. While the Cubs acquired some arms, they know their rotation is still quite spotty. There is a chance that Zambrano doesn’t get signed to a long term deal. The guy is going to command $20 million a year. After all their moronic spending can the Cubs aford that. JS could sell Hudson as an insurance plan. Not to mention that Hendry would have to love the idea of a rotation that would feature Zambrano, Hudson, Prior, Lilly, and Hill/Marquis. The Braves could ask for Sean Marshall or Carlos Marmoul in addition to Jones. Now, Marshall is no Hudson but he wouldn’t need to be with the bullpen the Braves now have. Jones would replace LaRoche’s bat and serve as a stopgap until Andruw’s replacement is found and Salty is ready in 2008. At that time Thorman could always move back to LF, which would allow Salty to play 1st. Jones is signed through 2008 at a rather affordable salary.

I also think the Rockies could be a possibility as well. Brad Hawpe or Wily Taveras could be options with Josh Fogg thrown into the mix.

By ncscoots

January 18, 2007 06:37 PM | Link to this

excellent job, JS. Wilson and Woodward provide some pop off the bench, Thor can sit against the really nasty lefties (yeah, I know, he’s probably gonna sit against the pansy lefties, too, LOL), it’s all good. Still no left-handed sock on the bench (with Thor going every day), but what the hey, if that turns out to be the biggest weakness on the team, you can size the rings. good deal.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 06:41 PM | Link to this

I told you! I told you! I knew that JS had something else in place and that is why the trade with LaRoche finally went through. And, I don’t think the dealing is done. Something else is in the works. I would almost bet on it.

I do like the signing of Wilson simply because his job will be to hit lefties, which will cut down on his tendency to strikeout. Don’t forget that Wilson would have been a Brave last season if it had not been for Thomson getting hurt in spring training.

By MS

January 18, 2007 06:43 PM | Link to this

I LIKE IT TOO!

I’m assuming they aren’t paying Wilson that much, but he’s a perfect fit for this team post-Laroche trade. He can platoon with Thorman at first, can play either corner OF spots, is a right handed bat with some power off the bench (have we ever had one of those?), and can even be the emergency catcher.

Assuming we didn’t give him that much $$, he’s the perfect platoon option so the young guys don’t have to play full-time (Thorman, Langy/Diaz) or as backup plan for 1B and LF should they falter.

By Lew

January 18, 2007 06:44 PM | Link to this

N8-Dude, if I went Dennis Green on your a$$, you wouldn’t be posting this quickly-your ears would still be ringing. No problem, it’s just Lew being Lew. I just can’t understand where all of the criticism of Thorman’s defense is coming from. He’s only made one error in the bigs.

By Rags

January 18, 2007 06:44 PM | Link to this

Well, now we have the best bullpen in baseball. The past two years, didn’t the same pundits say we had one of the best starting rotations in baseball, and it ended up being very average. Didn’t we bring in another great closer, and then have to send him back to Milwaukee? I sure hope these guys are really that good, but after the past few years, I really prefer to wait and see how they stack up on the field. While Leo was here, we knew the starters would usually keep us in the game. But the Braves have never had a great reliever - other than Smoltz - even under Leo. We have had no good pitching at all under Sam. So let’s temper our enthusiasm until they close a few games. Hope is a theological virtue - it is not a baseball strategy.

By PopeVanIII

January 18, 2007 06:45 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I called that one above! Seriously!

By Jay

January 18, 2007 06:56 PM | Link to this

Two steps forward, two steps back. Yes we improved our bullpen…but didnt we already do that earlier this postseason? Once we got Wickman everything settled down. The majority of those awful blown save #s are pre-wickman. I remember that the braves had at least 20 blown saves before Wick showed up. Lets say he saved 75% of those…thats another 15 wins. Suddenly last year’s team is a 90 win team and makes the wild card. The problem was solved when we got Soriano. So why not trade Laroche for another problem on the team? Leadoff and Starting Pitching!

LaRoche was streaky, but he had one of the highest ops in the national league. If we were gonna trade him, lets get something more then a prospect at a position we already have talent at and a middle reliever!!!!!

So we have a better bullpen at the expense of our defense and offense. Frenchy will see even more curveballs without LaRoche behind him for protection…and we all know how that has gone so far. Fact of the matter is you cant keep subtracting solid position players for rookies every single year and expect to win. After next when Andruw is gone we’ll have really young players everyone except for Chipper and Renteria in the last year of his contract.

I think there are too many questions on this team for the Braves to make the playoffs. Im not saying they dont have the talent…but I really dont think its a lock.

Can Smoltz, Chipper, and Hampton stay healthy? Will contract years affect Andruw and Smoltz? Will Andurw’s inevitable depature hurt the team? Who plays left field, 1st, 2nd? Can Hudson ever return to his Oakland form? Will Hampton be any good after missing so much time? Is Chuck James a rookie fluke like another rookie who was also compared to Glavine…Damien Moss? Who is batting leadoff? Where does the power come from when Chipper is hurt and McCann is resting aka 30-40 games of the season? Was the saving in bullpen runs worth the runs we’ll give up defensively in the infield? Will I have to do a drug test if I bring an Aquafina bottle to the stadium?

Lots of ifs.

By KC

January 18, 2007 06:57 PM | Link to this

The only thing that really bothers me about this off-season is that we let D.Ward walk away… for 1 million dollars!!

It would have been really nice to retain his services, particularly now that LaRoche is gone.

By AZBravoFan

January 18, 2007 06:59 PM | Link to this

Not to jump on the bash Adam bandwagon, but we are getting rid of 128 K’s. If you look at Thorman’s numbers between Richmond and Atlanta, he only had 69 K’s in 437 at-bats. Also, in light of this deal, I haven’t seen much talk about last winter’s blog darling - the annointed Salty. Suppose he’ll get a few reps at first in Spring Training?

By DonCoburleone

January 18, 2007 07:00 PM | Link to this

Platoon at 1B again! Brings back the good old days of LaRoche/Franco… This works out well, adds depth to the bench and should give us good production at 1B using Wilson and Thorman as a platoon… Scheurholz you ‘da man!

By DonCoburleone

January 18, 2007 07:06 PM | Link to this

“The right-handed hitting Wilson owns a .265 career batting average and in his six Major League seasons he has played outfield (314 games), first base (262) and catcher (40). His 12 career pinch-hit home runs (in just 104 pinch at-bats) ranks second to Mark Sweeney (13 pinch homers in 525 at-bats) among all active Major League players.”

This guy is not only the righty platoon man at 1B, he’s also our best pinch hitter! Nice job JS!

By DonCoburleone

January 18, 2007 07:07 PM | Link to this

“Not to jump on the bash Adam bandwagon, but we are getting rid of 128 K’s. If you look at Thorman’s numbers between Richmond and Atlanta, he only had 69 K’s in 437 at-bats.”

Good point…

By Lew

January 18, 2007 07:08 PM | Link to this

Rags-Let’s see now. Wickman is one save off of Wagner’s record over the past three years. Soriano and Gonzalez have ERA’s (for their 3 year career’s) in the low 2’s. Hitters hit in the low .200’s (for their careers). You view this as a maybe proposition? What more do you want? Kolb was a total aberration. You certainly can’t predict ANYONE’s performance on his. These guys are all the real deal.

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 07:13 PM | Link to this

We Just signed Craig Wilson… Whoopie…! Our lineup is gonna be Garbage, especially when Andruw leaves…

And Hell we better have the best bullpen, I don’t want to see another Kolb/Reeksma Fiasco happen again…

By Plate Appearance

January 18, 2007 07:21 PM | Link to this

Now I know that senility has come to JS. Trading LaRoche and now signing Craig Wilson for 2 million dollars, when he couldn’t sign Marcus Giles for economic reasons???

I think it’s time you retire to Naples and play some golf John.

The Braves are now TURNING INTO THE PITTSBURG PIRATES!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 07:21 PM | Link to this

With all due respect, anyone who thinks that this Wilson signing is a bad one is crazy. I said that LaRoche could hit 35HR and 115RBI this season. And I do. But, I bet between Wilson and Thorman they do about the same. Thorman can hit 20-25 HR/75RBI and I think Wilson (if he hits primarily against lefties) can hit 15-20 HR with 50RBI. Sounds pretty good to me.

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 07:24 PM | Link to this

DonC…I’m not very optomistic about this platoon…I see it being as a Wally Joyner/Rico Brogna fiasco…Until we establish..or acquire a proven leadoff man I think our offense is gonna be garbage…Better hope Chipper plays 140 games because we can’t outslug the big dawgs in da east (Phils and Mutts) And when I mean big dawgs I’m referring to their bating orders, because The Phils and the Mutts have 1 thing we don’t have and that is a bonafide leadoff man…Hell that Mutts team reminds me of da 95 Indians, All Offense, and no pitching and a decent closer…

By N8

January 18, 2007 07:25 PM | Link to this

Lew

As always, my sarcasm should be taken lightly. LOL!

It’s a new year, dude. New season. New hope. I’m PUMPED! Can’t wait for pitchers and catchers.

ON A SIDE NOTE:

About two days ago, I asked some people on here if there was anyplace in the ATL to order Michael Vick “gear” online, that would be anything different than what the NFL sells at nfl.com.

Now it looks as though I might have to look into the new “Michale Vick Water Bottle”. LOL! I hear they might be a real HIGH seller in the upcoming season.

Sorry couldn’t resist. I give just about EVERYBODY the benefit of the doubt with their personal life. But man. It kinda bugs me that my 6 year old loves this guy (too much Madden 07 if you ask me.) But hey. His old man’s made some mistakes too, so I don’t think I’m gonna bother saying anything to him. Too young to understand. I guess it’s not like he went all OJ on anybody, so whatever. Not to mention the fact that playing in bands for 20 years if I condemned everybody I know for “being in posession of some weed”, I’d probably have nobody too talk to at the bars I play in. LOL!

Anyhow. No harm meant Lew.

PS: I don’t feel like scrolling through the blog to give credit where it is due, so I’ll just say the following:

To whomever posted that the Braves should look into signing Craig Wilson to platoon at 1B and provide OF depth……NICE CALL. I think Bobby will find a way to get the MOST out of both Thorman and Wilson. Similar to Brian Hunter and Sid Bream. Not to mention the two of them will probably prove to be nice bats of the bench when the other is in the lineup.

Nice job JS. Keep up the transformation, I’M LIKING THE LOOKS OF THINGS.

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 07:27 PM | Link to this

Just wish we had been this agressive about our Blowpen a year ago…Then we would’ve been the top cat reppin the East in da playoffs…Lets Just see what happens come July 31st Becuz ESPN Is gonna Blow the A. Jones being on da market thing out of da water…

By TLJ

January 18, 2007 07:35 PM | Link to this

The Wilson signing is benefitical, we now bring Thorman along slower and make his transition easier. We also added a little pop to the bench. Still worried about the defense but guess we can’t have everything. Appears JS has done a good job with what he has to work with.

I take back all of the negative things I said yesterday. Go Braves!

ps will salty continue working as a catcher or will he start working out at 1B? Does anyone know???

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 07:42 PM | Link to this

Listen up People!!! “I am not an unreasonable man” but why N da hell Did we not go after Tony Womack…Could have been a cheap leadoff hitta until we can develop someone full time from the minors…”I guess our parents just don’t understand “

By The Grinch

January 18, 2007 07:43 PM | Link to this

Like I said, the man knows what he’s doing. I still don’t think he’s done, either. We have a glut of pitchers and outfielders; expect another “Three nickels for a quarter” trade soon.

So, those giant AirTran billboards in Atlanta with pictures of Vick and captions like “Flying High” don’t look so stupid anymore now, do they? Who knew they were psychic? Hell, they probably planted it to get the exposure, or sould I say air time? Whoo-ha!

Hillbilly, sorry ‘bout the loss the other day; these things happen. Just hope the hoops team doesn’t use up too much of the football team’s luck/karma.

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 07:44 PM | Link to this

Damn I forgot about Salty…maybe he will be groomed to play first…I just had a mood swing that makes me feel better think about Salty having a good year in da minors this season and hopefully be ready to play at first full time in 2008…

By TLJ

January 18, 2007 07:46 PM | Link to this

I just read ESPN Buster Olney article about the Braves bullpen. He stated the Braves had improved their bullpen but the Mets still had a stronger bullpen. I don’t keep up with the mets but it appears their big 3 are Wagner, Heilman and Sanchez. Who would you rather have those three or Wickman, Gonzalez and Soriano.

I prefer our guys.

By John Schuerholz

January 18, 2007 07:53 PM | Link to this

TLJ: That is an excellent question. My current thought is to monitor Thorman’s progress at first and move forward accordingly. If Thorman progresses as I expect, Salty will most likely begin transitioning to left field.

Obviously, I can’t afford to resign Andruw so my current hope is that Salty can quickly transition to left field and our fantastic prospect Brandon Jones continues to mature in Richmond this year and is ready to contribute in Atlanta at the begining of 2008. Frenchy will move over to center, Salty will man left, and Brandon will patrol right…what an outstanding outfield the team will have for many years to come!

I look forward to popping in out of future discussions on the ajc braves blog. Carry on my pupils.

JS

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

January 18, 2007 07:53 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, good to hear you on XM on Charlie Steiner’s show.

The national media will tell you that Adam and Bobby had issues with each other and that Adam wasn’t his kind of player but IMO, I just don’t think he is that good. Adam’s swing is so huge and has so many hole’s in it that pitcher’s pitched him inside with hard fastballs and went away with breaking balls to keep him off balance. There’s a reason Adam had only 90 rbi’s. Most of his homers were solo shots.

I did call it on last night’s blog about finding a platoon right hander and a bat off the bench. I did.t know if it was going to be Craig Wilson or Phil Nevin. It wouldn’t have mattered either way. I would have chose Nevin myself but are the same type of player. Wilson is 5 years younger.

I still don’t trust Davies as 5th starter. I want Armas Jr!

By Robert

January 18, 2007 07:54 PM | Link to this

Craig Wilson? NO

Career K/BB 618/190, career batting average .265, not an ounce of speed (but maybe a few grams of speed, tho we’ll never know, since first test results are confidential)

And now on the wrong side of age 30

I can see the team being cost concious, but how do you justify being so frugal (ok, let’s be blunt and call them stingy) to this point they have been so far, only to turn around and flush $2 million in good American money down the toilet ?

Craig Wilson - fricking Wes Helms is ten times the player Craig Wilson ever dreamed of being

Robert Fick would be better

Hell, Danny Bautista was better than Craig Wilson

Somebody must’ve left the front office and forgotten to unplug the phone and lock the door, only to return from lunch break to see El Burro chewing his chud in the corner and to find out we owe Craig Wilson $2 million

By stew

January 18, 2007 07:55 PM | Link to this

KJ can’t be a leadoff guy. Prado isn’t a major league player. Diaz should be cut. We still need a second baseman and leftfielder. I don’t know what to do about 2B. Didn’t Giles actually take a pay cut to sign with the Pods. Gregor Blanco sounds like the real deal in left and at leadoff. It’s a shame Giles couldn’t be resigned for what 3 mill. He will be missed. One thing’s for sure - Andruw can’t be replaced. Forget about his offense. It’s all about his defense and how he makes everyone around him better defensively.

By Robert

January 18, 2007 07:57 PM | Link to this

“Not to jump on the bash Adam bandwagon, but we are getting rid of 128 K’s.”

Now I understand the Craig Wilson deal a little better. We got 122 of those K’s back with almost 150 at bats to spare

DOH!

By Ted

January 18, 2007 07:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, new to the blog. What does the Wilson signing mean for our BENCH for next year? Pena(C), Woodward(IF/OF), and Wilson(OF) and Aybar(IF) should be locks assuming the 1B, 2B, and LF are occoupied by Johnson (2B), Thorman (1B), and Langerhans(LF).

I am assuming Langerhans is a lock to make the team whether he is starting or not based on his value defensively.

This leaves one bench spot basically between Diaz and Orr. Who makes the team? I like Diaz, but do we really need 6 Outfielders (counting Wilson) when CF and RF are locked up?

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 07:58 PM | Link to this

Grinch That was funny about Ron Mexico Flying high, I bet he was kickin it hard down in da 305

By ChrisinPA

January 18, 2007 08:02 PM | Link to this

Not to “pop my [own] collar” - but I’m pretty sure that I said how good Craig Wilson would be in a Braves uniform, towards the end of DOB’s last Blog about the ballparks…while remarking on the LaRoche trade.

Yeah…you heard it here first. Me and JS are like “this”

Great job again JS - got a leadoff hitter in your bag of tricks?

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 08:02 PM | Link to this

PopeVanIII _ damn prescient call on the Wilson matter. Now what’s your job in the Braves front office?…

Grinch, hilarious reference to the Flyin’ High billboards….

Personally, I’d take the Braves ‘pen over the Mets’, especially given the rest of the depth they’ll have to choose from.

By Bryan

January 18, 2007 08:06 PM | Link to this

Hey David, I heard you with Charley Steiner this afternoon you seem friendlier on this blog…HAHA..

I have forgotten how old is Craig Wilson? Do you think it is a good sign? I first read it and thought so but after thinking about it, isnt he pretty much a stiff at first?

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 08:06 PM | Link to this

Robert I’ll Cosign on you’re 7:54 post…Wilson better impress the hell out of me especially since we lost Daryle Ward…

And this quote from Da Vent “Just how many 1-0 games can we win, anyway?”

Looks like they’re are gonna be a lot of 2 hour fifteen minute boring games this year that will put you to sleep

This team will probably end up yielding a no hitter to someone this year…

By Ron

January 18, 2007 08:07 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice is the Best), I agree, I think another trade will happen also, it will be for a LF. We now have Lillibridge and Escobar both at Double A Mississippi, both are not goin to play SS, unless the Braves move one of them to Secondbase. But also the Braves have alot of relievers that are not goin to make the team, I see a package involving Escobar, Larew, Devine, Stockman, Maybe Salty(depends how good the LF is that we would be getting, maybe even another starting pitcher), dont know what will happen, but something will probably get done in LF, even if it is a one year guy, like J.D. Drew was.

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 08:11 PM | Link to this

Where da hell is that damn bandwagon Mut fan thats always up in here giving us shyt?

I’m in da mood to get in someone’s a-s-s, especially a mutt fan…Damn I need to settle down, I go play some Slayer and lift weights…B Back…

By Ron

January 18, 2007 08:12 PM | Link to this

Is it me or is it goin to be a scary infield, for at least one day out of a week (especially if chipper is hurt). Thorman at first, Johnson at second, Aybar at third, to give Chipper a rest some, B.Pena at catcher, when the Braves rest McCann. That will be some low scoring games. That Starting Pitching better be damn great those games!!!

By Robert

January 18, 2007 08:14 PM | Link to this

Open on a scene in the Braves’ front office. John Schuerholz, followed closely by a nebbish aide is striding down the hallway, talking on a cell phone as he turns to open his office door

As he steps inside, a very nervous looking intern turns to face him, as another tries to melt into the woodwork while continuing to collect loose papers that have been strewn all over the floor

JS - What in the HELL? What’s going on here

Intern - It’s ok sir, I can explain

JS - (pointing at the corner where Bobby Cox is standing, munching contentedly from an oats bucket that hangs from his neck) How the heck did HE get in here? Geezummarie - (stops and wrinkles his nose before checking the bottoms of his shoes) - DANGNABIT

Intern - Sir, I’m sorry. We went down to the Varsity for lunch and Lucius didnt lock the door

Lucius stops collecting papers - EYE didnt lock the door? Man I aint the one that left the key out

Intern - Ok, ok - WE didnt lock the door sir, and when we came back, well he was in here sir

JS - awright awright, call Terry, tell him to bring the carrot on the stick - he knows the drill - carry on (turns to leave)

Intern - Sir, there’s just one other thing sir.

JS - what

Intern - (handing him a check made out for $2 million) could you please sign this sir

JS - For what? We restocked the beer cooler last week and we can reuse the party hats. 2 MILLION DOLLARS?

Intern - Well, you see sir, we , um, I mean he, um , Bobby, um, El, kinda signed - it’s coulda been worse sir

JS - SIGNED? Signed WHO?(only now realizing the phone is off the hook and resting at Bobby’s hooves) - WHO did he sign?

Intern - Craig Wilson sir

JS - Craig who? There’s no major leaguer by that name

Intern - Wilson sir - it’s not all bad sir- He played 1st base in middle school — sir

JS’s face starts turning beet red

Intern - it coulda been worse sir

JS - Worse? WORSE? I have about $4 million left to work with and now half of it is gone for a beer league DH?

Intern - He was on the phone with Brad Eldred’s agent when we walked in sir

JS - Oh …. Well, good work boys. (digging in his pockets and handing the intern a dime) I guess maybe I shouldve listened and let us splurge to get a second copy of that office key to begin with

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 08:15 PM | Link to this

Bryan, he’s 30 and no Gold Glover, that’s for sure. But not terrible at first….

Speaking of Mr. Wilson, look at the picture of him on our website. Looks like he could be Wickman’s younger, long-haired brother….

By Eric Noe

January 18, 2007 08:16 PM | Link to this

$2 mil? is that a joke?

By TLJ

January 18, 2007 08:20 PM | Link to this

Ron,

Escobar played for the AA Mississippi Braves last year. Unless he makes the 25 man roster or is traded he will play at Richmond this year. Lillibridge will play ss for the AA team with Aundrus playing at Mrytle Beach (high A).

I agree that another trade will be made but I don’t anticipate a blocker buster deal.

By KC

January 18, 2007 08:23 PM | Link to this

Let’s give C.Wilson a chance. If you project his 06’ number to 550 AB’s, you’ll have 24 homers and 75 RBI. Not bad at all. Now of course, .251 largely makes up for it… but I think he’s a good addition. Especially if he’s a part-time player.

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 08:26 PM | Link to this

If Chipper gets hurt, and Andruw is traded before the deadline, we could be looking at the 2007 Richmond braves, with the only exception is that it won’t be like 2004 again…

By KC

January 18, 2007 08:28 PM | Link to this

To follow up on my previous post… the only year Wilson was given a chance to play every day was 2004, and he hit .264 with 29 homers, and 82 RBI. This guy has pretty good power.

Also, in addition to being able to play 1B or LF, this guy can actually catch as well. It’s always nice to have a 3rd catcher. Nice pickup by JS.

By ChrisinPA

January 18, 2007 08:29 PM | Link to this

I doubt Wilson has the long hair going again…but can we still call him Thor?

Didn’t think about it but the 1B platoon is now Thor and Thorman.

HAHA

By TLJ

January 18, 2007 08:30 PM | Link to this

Ted,

You addressed your post to DOB but I thought I would get my 2 cents in. Assuming KJ is the 2B, we only have 4 OF (Frenchy, AJ, Diaz and Langerhan). Woodward is primarily an infielder and probably will not be used in the OF. Wilson can play the OF but appears he will get most of his time platooning at 1B with Thorman and pinch hitting.

By Drummerdad

January 18, 2007 08:33 PM | Link to this

i like this signing. I didn’t think JS would leave Thorman at first (if that’s where they play him) without a seasoned alternative/sidekick. This move leaves me feeling better than at this time last year, or the move where from a few years ago when we traded for BJ Surhoff. (I didn’t think the Braves got as much out of him as they hoped they would.)

By ernesto

January 18, 2007 08:45 PM | Link to this

Hey Robert that’s funny -Bobby’s a donkey. Ha. El Burro, that’s great. Just so super clever. I mean all last year with the donkey references, and then the donkey songs, and the donkey mini-screen plays, and just when it had all become unbearably stale and tedious. Boom! You’ve taken it to a whole new level - bi-lingual. Major major props to you, sir. Well done.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 08:46 PM | Link to this

Eric, $2 mill not a joke _ it’s called the current market.

Dude made $3.3 mill last year, so considering the raises most 30-year-old major leaguers got, hey, not so bad, right?

By Robert

January 18, 2007 08:47 PM | Link to this

Wilson could pass as John Kruk’s fatter little brother

(by the way, Kruk is now an ad pitch man for some weight loss thing - only caught the tail end of it, anyone know more?)

By Ron

January 18, 2007 08:48 PM | Link to this

TLJ, dude Escobar did not have a very good season in Double A, they will start him in Double A again, and if he improves, then they will move him to Richmond, but only then. Yes I know he was great in the Arizona Fall League. But he will still start in Double A.

By Tomahawkin

January 18, 2007 08:48 PM | Link to this

Ok gotta go watch the O.C. and then Its party-time dawg…Bout to go get my party on…And I’m out…

By chris

January 18, 2007 09:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’d love to see your list of relievers most likely to round out the rotation. I say the last three (until Sturtze is healthy) are Villareal, Cormier, and Boyer. What are your thoughts on Boyer and Devine’s potential? I really like those two. And what percentage would you put on the Braves opening up with Diaz/ Sizzorhands in LF? :)

Mooch

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 18, 2007 09:05 PM | Link to this

Let’s hope Gonzalez and Soriano are not the 2007 versions of Dan Kolb.

The key to this trade is probably Jeff Francoeur and Brian McCann, since they will be counted on to replace LaRoche’s production. It is unrealistic to expect Thorman to pick up where LaRoche left off — 20 homers and 80 RBIs from him would be a gift. But Francoeur has to return to his July 2005 form, and McCann has to continue improving in order for this trade to work.

And of course, none of this will matter if Tim Hudson and Kyle Davies continue to suck. John Smoltz and Chuck James is not a good enough 1-2 punch with which to contend for the division.

By TennesseePaul

January 18, 2007 09:09 PM | Link to this

Hell that Mutts team reminds me of da 95 Indians, All Offense, and no pitching and a decent closer…

If that’s your worry, check out how that season ended. The Braves had no offense (Worst in the majors) and great pitching. We’ll be fine. More moves to come.

By Ted

January 18, 2007 09:10 PM | Link to this

TLJ,

You are right. I was counting Langerhans twice. I still wonder if the Bench would include Diaz or Orr. The only real upside to Orr is his speed, but Diaz is pretty quick too. You know a bench of Thorman/Wilson, Diaz/Langerhans, Pena, Aybar, and Woodward is a pretty strong bench and in a lot of ways very much stronger than the one that began last year of: 1. Langerhans/Diaz (Same) 2. Pratt (Pena) 3. Betemit (Aybar) 4. Orr (Woodward) 5. Jordan (Craig Wilson)

With the exception of Betemit maybe having a slight edge over Aybar every one of those spots is an upgrade over last year. That being said the SP, Bullpen, and bench should be a major improvement over 2006 with the offense maybe suffering a slight decline.

By Gil

January 18, 2007 09:12 PM | Link to this

Hey, maybe we will have a decent team in Richmond this year. Finally, a surplus in talent. You never have too much speed or pitching. If they can hit, they will find a place for them to play. You folks in Atlanta need to stop worring about all the hype you hear on the talk shows and just enjoy the team you have. As long as they play hard and hustle you have nothing to complain about. Next September will be soon enough to rate if this was a good trade or not. Just remember, you have to give up something to get something.

By N8

January 18, 2007 09:15 PM | Link to this

Najeh

How’s that “tail” you’ve been growing coming along?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 09:18 PM | Link to this

Wilson is a very good signing. If he was slated to play everyday, then I would say it was awful. But, if he is slated to only play against lefties which seems to be the case, then he is a terrfic pickup. He kills left handed pitching and has very good power.

I just read on the Braves page at MLB.com that this signing could signal Diaz getting traded. That would indicated either Thorman is slated to play everyday or the Braves have a plan of getting a everyday LF. I will go (and hope) with the latter. I just wonder what the Braves could get for Diaz?

By TLJ

January 18, 2007 09:19 PM | Link to this

Ron,

I don’t know for a fact where Escobar will play next year but he has nothing to prove at AA. He didn’t have a great season but it wasn’t bad. He hit 264, 21 doubles, 4 triples, 2 hr, 45 rbi, 346 slg and a 361 obp. As you pointed out he had a great fall season and I think the Braves expect him to carry that over. Unless he has a horrible spring I expect him to start the season in Richmond

I feel the same way about Salty. He had a horrible first half at AA last year, turned it on in the second half but still only hit 230 with 9 hrs. He also had a good fall season before he got hurt. Unless he has a bad spring I think he will start the season at Richmond.

I guess we will have to wait and see. Unless both are traded!

By Troy

January 18, 2007 09:25 PM | Link to this

I haven’t blogged in a while because I have been real busy and really nothing has been happening, but now the braves are actually starting to make some noise. I got to say that I really like the trade, I mean lately the braves have really been running out some really outstanding young position players, but not so much with the pitchers. Trading for pitching help was the best route possible and I am glad that the did it.

Yeah, sure 32 HRs and 90 RBIs can be tough to replace, but I would be happy with 80% of that production, because the addition of Gonzalez will almost certainly add a few wins. I think that 25 HRs and 72 RBIs is attainable form a Thorman/Wilson combo.

It’s safe to say that the Braves have four guys with legit shots at 100 plus RBIs (AJ, Frenchie, McCann, CJ(HEALTY?)) and one could make the argument that those four guys are in the top five production wise at their respective positions, I would say that McCann is #1 catcher, and is there a more productive RF in the NL? AJ’s biggest competition would be Beltran. This offense as a whole will still be a top 5 next year and now we got an awesome bullpen. things are looking good.

For those that don’t like the trade, keep in mind that sometimes you have to give up quality to get quality in return, and don’t forget we STOLE Soriano away from Seattle.

By Troy

January 18, 2007 09:27 PM | Link to this

Ted: I was just going to ask about the bench my guess is

Wilson Diaz Woodward B. Pena Aybar

By monty

January 18, 2007 09:30 PM | Link to this

I don’t like the trade. I hope I am proved wrong, what’s done is done.But in La Roche you had a slick fielding 1b with the ability to hit for power and decent avg. A guy that could have been in the line-up for years to come. Having experienced tendonitis in both of my elbows myself I know from experience that it can come and go overnight. I doubt seriously that Gonzales willl even be with the Braves in 3 years from now. Two years from now when Chipper is on the bench rehabing and Andrew has been traded we just might miss Mr. Laroche.

By TLJ

January 18, 2007 09:30 PM | Link to this

Ted, Diaz will probably the choice because mof his bat. I agree the bench and relief pitching all appear to be improved.

By brian

January 18, 2007 09:31 PM | Link to this

On ESPN.com it reports that the Tigers are looking to move one of their surplus OF plus one of their up and coming SP for a lefty reliever. They mentioned Thames as the OF and a whole list of SP.

I would rather keep Gonzalez than get Thames unless that is a lights out young starter ready for ML. Too bad we cannot get their young SP they traded to the Yankees for Sheffield.

By dan k

January 18, 2007 09:33 PM | Link to this

JS got the joke about the bullpen last year, and in playoffs years past.

Still need a lead-off hitter— preferably left fielder or second baseman with speed.

Any word on that?

By TennesseePaul

January 18, 2007 09:36 PM | Link to this

DOB: Speaking of that picture on the main Braves AJC site, what the hell is Craig doing? The ball is right there and he’s looking at the other batters box. He’s going to have to improve on that hand-eye coordination. Mainly the eye coordination. Might explain the high K rate… I don’t know anymore. Now that I see that one picture, this looks like a bad deal…=)

By El Burro

January 18, 2007 09:45 PM | Link to this

Robert—when I raise my tail, you kiss it where I can’t!…El Dumbas$!

By Matt M.

January 18, 2007 09:52 PM | Link to this

We signed Craig Wilson to play 1st and LF. I didn’t read all of this blog, but has anybody thought of Salty getting a chance at 1st also. If he has a good spring, you never know. Salty, Thorman, Wilson competing for 1st. Langerhans, Diaz, Wilson for LF. Johnson, Aybar, Escobar, etc for 2nd. Everwhere else is locked down. I’m psyched for 2007. We are about to dominate. Hope the Mets enjoyed their 1 year.

By mike

January 18, 2007 09:53 PM | Link to this

if i remember right in 2005 Thorman had better numbers than francoeur did… was hitting .320 at the time when they came to huntville..was having a great season at AA!!!!

By journalist jimmy smith

January 18, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

not sure what nicknames bobby will give the new players but wilson would do well as “cheeseburger”. liken back to the days of rick mahler and rick camp. wilson is listed at 6’2” and 220. must have used the same scales as wicky. now, baseball … who is jonathan johnson? johnny? now, bbq … this is the best weather for bbq and brunswick stew. journalist was interested in the talk of bbq sauces - the best bbq needs no sauce. and now, tranisition … mike vick transitioned yet again today. guess airtwan airlines will need to discuss the matter of failure to cooperate with tsa and attempting to board with contraband. oh, well … makes you appreciate the braves who for the most part don’t stray far from the line - or if they do they find themselves elsewhere.

By eric noe

January 18, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

frankly DOB, i would rather save the 2M and platoon Langy or Diaz over there. The guy is OK defensively, and ok offensively at best. He is Excellent at being hurt.

They have talked about acquiring him for a few years now. i don’t get it.

By eric noe

January 18, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

by the way DOB, he looks more like the long lost love child of Wickman, Kruk, and Daviv Wells.

By Drew

January 18, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

This signing makes that trade look so much better. LaRoche came along well after he had some time platooning, and hopefully Thorman will do the same. I still think there is probably another move upcoming, since we now have a huge surplus of relief pitchers, young middle infielders, and Salty. Great dealings in the past two days for JS. The roster looks phenomenal as of now, but might be even better by the time we open spring training. This team could be a World Series contender if Johnson, Thorman, and Frenchy develop. I am very excited.

By Adumb LaRoche

January 18, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Uhhhh Chipper?—Did I do sumpthin wrong?

By dave

January 18, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

I’m absolutely astounded by the fuss everyone is making over “Bonehead” LaRoche. Once he gets into his new Pirates uniform, he’ll realize how futile it is to even bother trying to produce playing for a team like that and go back to his lazy, sleepy eyed ways. The Braves offense was awesome last year. Giles won’t be missed either. My main concern is the health of Hampton. Ever since the Braves had to start paying his salary, a quarter of their payroll has gone to him. The exception is the time he spent on the DL. Thank God for insurance.

By boom

January 18, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Great pickup—getting Craig Wilson to help with 1st and the outfield. I think we still need a legit leadoff hitter and then this team could be upstoppable. I think RYAN FREEL would be a perfect fit for second base and outfield and a good leadoff hitter till Lillibridge is ready. The REDS needs a closer in the worst way and I do not think the Braves need all three guys with the depth now. Make Gonzalez the closer—Soriano—8th inning—-McBride, Villarreal, Cormier, Boyer,and Sturtze can handle the 6th and 7th. Trade Wickman to the Reds for Freel and it is a perfect fit for both teams. Wickman would give the Reds a chance at the division and FREEL would make the Braves a complete team—STRONG STARTING PITCHING, STRONG BULLPEN, POWER LINE-UP, SPEED, LEGIT LEADOFF HITTER. Why would the Reds not do it—they have B. Phillips for 2nd and young C. Denorfia for RF and either of them could leadoff for them. Wicky is down to a year or two anyway so why not get a leadoff man who wreaks havoc and FREEL definitely does that. If I was JS—I would do my best to make this move.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

TennPaul: Good point. What IS he doing in that picture?

Eric wrote: “Frankly DOB, i would rather save the 2M and platoon Langy or Diaz over there.”

I’m assuming you meant past tense, since this is no longer an option.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I looked again and think I figured it out: He just got hit by a pitch when the pic was snapped.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 18, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you think trading Hudson to the Blue Jays for Alex Rios is a good idea if the Braves could get Chacin or Marcum thrown in or are able to sign a guy like Armas who can hold down the fort until Harrison is ready?

What are your thoughts about Jacque Jones? Could he help this team?

By Troy

January 18, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

Rob: I don’t think that the Braves will trade Hudson right now, for one his value is probably at its lowest right now unless he has a terrible year, however given the current market for SP if he has a good year then his trade value will go up tremendously, but with that being the case the braves would likely want to hang onto him, therefore I don’t see us trading Hudson.

I don;t think Jacque Jones would be a good fit either, too expensive, plus we have already met our JONES quota for the year

By Drew

January 18, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this

No Jacque Jones please.

By GermanBravesFan

January 18, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Aaaaaaaaaaah… back from Germany and already some big news!!! DOB: did you think this trade was still going to happen or were you as surprised as most of us? Personally, at first I thought it was a horrible trade; however, after thinking about it for a while, it might have been a pretty good one! Who knows what Laroche might have made after next year! I like our chances with what we have. What will the new line-up look like now? Maybe 1. Johnson 2. Renteria 3. Jones 4. Jones 5. McCann 6. Francoeur…7. Thorman 8. Langerhans/Diaz ??? DOB: what other trades/changes do you predict?

By Warren Haynes For President

January 18, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

Well my daddy didn’t pull out but he never apologized.

Rock ‘n Roll means well but it can’t help telling young boys lies

I like the trade.

By superman

January 18, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Move Chipper to first base who cares if he doesnt want to. i bet he would be in the lineup a lot more

By Warren Haynes For President

January 18, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

THE SOUTHERN THING (Hood / DBT)

Ain’t about my pistol Ain’t about my boots Ain’t about no northern drives Ain’t about my southern roots Ain’t about my guitars, ain’t about my big old amps “It ain’t rained in weeks, but the weather sure feels damp” Ain’t about excuses or alibis Ain’t about no cotton fields or cotton picking lies Ain’t about the races, the crying shame To the f*** rich man all poor people look the same

Don’t get me wrong It just ain’t right May not look strong, but I ain’t afraid to fight If you want to live another day Stay out the way of the southern thing

Ain’t about no hatred better raise a glass It’s a little about some rebels but it ain’t about the past Ain’t about no foolish pride, Ain’t about no flag Hate’s the only thing that my truck would want to drag

You think I’m dumb, maybe not too bright You wonder how I sleep at night Proud of the glory, stare down the shame Duality of the southern thing

My Great Great Granddad had a hole in his side He used to tell the story to the family Christmas night Got shot at Shiloh, thought he’d die alone From a Yankee bullet, less than thirty miles from home Ain’t no plantations in my family tree Did NOT believe in slavery, thought that all men should be free “But, who are these soldiers marching through my land?” His bride could hear the cannons and she worried about her man

I heard the story as it was passed down About guts and glory and Rebel stands Four generations, a whole lot has changed Robert E. Lee Martin Luther King We’ve come a long way rising from the flame Stay out the way of the southern thing

By kg

January 18, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

Would you trade Chuck James and Escobar to Tampa for Baldi?

By Rex Boaz

January 19, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

DOB: I told you about one of the three clowns. No understand english. Swinging the big bat. Looks as though Texas is taking a hard look, said the bad speed was faster than ever. Maybe Braves? What a joke. Go Braves. Great trade.

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

DOB: Classic. I love it. Great way to introduce him to the city. Here’s our new guy takin’ one for the team.

By Drew

January 19, 2007 12:15 AM | Link to this

Definitely not on the James deal. I wouldn’t trade James straight up for Baldelli. We have very little rotation depth, and definitely can’t afford giving up a great young pitcher like James.

By Coloradobravesfan

January 19, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

Just noticed something interesting about Thorman. Since 2004, It seems they always moved him up a level in the minor leagues during the middle of the season. When this happened he didn’t hit worth a crap the rest of that season. Then when the next minor league season started him he hit great. maybe someone showed Bobby and JS this, and they just figured the trend wold continue. look at these avg/ops stats. 2004— myrtle Bch 299/819. They move him to Greenville(AA) 252/732. 2005— Miss(AA) 305/866. Mid-season they move him up to AAA Richmond, 276/751. 2006— Richmond, 298/868. They call him up to the show in Atlanta, 234/701. So.. in 2007 if Thorman follows his recent pattern, his projection should be 285/825 and somewhere around 25 HRs. I wish this would be the case. HOw good would those hitting stats help out our offese from the number 7 hole…

By brian

January 19, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

Simple answer kg - NO

By Head Coach

January 19, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

Well thats that. My previous post at 6:09 got answered at 6:11 , nice ! Wilson adds to the beer league softball look of this team , lots of thump and no speed on the basepaths. Now , thats not a problem with all with the run production we had last season , its just that I’m hoping Kelly Johnson and or Ryan Langerhans \ Gregor Blanco get a fair chance at adding some speed at the top and bottom of the lineup.

By mr baseball

January 19, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this

With the LaRoche trade, Schuerholz has revisited 2 of the biggest mistakes he’s made as Braves GM. He’s rectifying one and creating a possibility of repeating the other. One of the reasons for the Braves recent struggles was the JS decision not to spend on a bullpen. He wouldn’t pay for setup relievers and several times went into the season without a legit closer. That mindset cost the Braves big time last year.

By signing Wickman and trading for Soriano & Gonzalez, JS has clearly admitted that he was wrong to leave the last few bullpens in such undependable hands, and this should be as good a bullpen as the Braves have had top to bottom.

However, by dumping Giles and dealing LaRoche, he has set up a possible repreat of the wake caused by the Klesko/Boone trade, which was unquestionably one of the worst straight-up trades any GM has ever made and left the Braves without a major league caliber player at 2 positions for 3 years.

Barring any more deals, and given the Braves financial situation it is highly unlikely they can acquire a front line position player better than what they have, this is the team the Braves are going into the season with. If, and that’s a big if, Thorman/Wilson can come close to LaRoche’s ‘06 numbers and somebody emerges as at least an adequate 2B (better than Keith Lockhart) the Braves could survive the loss of offense. Defense may be another matter.

To whoever keeps bringing up Thorman’s fielding percentage, that’s of absolutely no significance. No 1B of consequence makes more than a handful of errors. It’s other infielders’ errors they prevent and starting DPs, and Thorman is not going to be in LaRoche’s league with the glove. If Johnson is the 2B, the Braves are going to suffer there too, no matter how much work he’s done with Hubbard. The fact he went from SS to the OF instead of 2B or 3B is a tipoff.

Considering how intent the Braves were in dealing LaRoche, it’s a reasonable conclusion that someone (the manager perhaps) wanted him gone. Cox has never shown much patience in dealing with players who had to be handled to any degree, and he may not been very uncomfortable with a player who needed medication to focus on his job.

LaRoche was a lot better player than most Braves fans have given him credit for, and is a good bet to develop into a consistent big time HR hitter. While a lot of young pitchers the Braves have traded over the years have failed to achieve their supposed potential, most of the traded position players have played just as well in other uniforms, and LaRoche will be the latest on that list.

Unless Gonzalez becomes the Braves closer post-Wickman, this is a definite risk on the GM’s part, and that is not like him. Even his good trades have been positive only in the short term. If Thorman isn’t the player the Braves think he is, and Salty turns out to be another Komminsk/Lombard/Glenn Williams, this trade isn’t going to look too good in a few years unless Gonzalez becomes the closer and can avoid injury.

Folks, please abandon the Baldelli obsession. He’s not that great and the Braves have nothing to trade for him. Also, Hudson ain’t goin’ anywhere. JS is not going to load up on the bullpen and make a deal that weakens a rotation that has no established 5th starter and health questions with some of the horses.

The Braves past suggests that they can overcome an average offense with outstanding pitching. JS is making his last stand based on that belief, although he has finally decided that paying for a bullpen might not be such a bad idea. Let’s hope he’s right.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this

KG, Braves aren’t trading Chuck James. And Mr. Baseball’s right _ why would they trade Hudson now, after fortifying the bullpen to such a degree, and having question marks about most or all of the other starters? There’s James’ youth (not really a quesion mark to me; I think he’ll have a very good season) and the age/health of Smoltz, Hampton, and just general question mark about Davies after his traumatic year.

Not going to trade Hudson. No way. He’s a flat-out bargain in this market.

Some of you are just talking fantasy trades now, just talking trades for the sake of trading. The pitching staff is solid, the lineup only has two big questions marks: second base/leadoff, which the Braves hope Kelly Johnson will answer at once.

They don’t need and can’t afford Jacque Jones.

By mr baseball

January 19, 2007 01:03 AM | Link to this

One more thing: interesting timing regarding the trade & signing. Just as soon as LaRoche & the Braves trade arbitration numbers, he gets dealt. And just as quickly they shell out $2 million for a platoon player. Clearly this wasn’t about $, which appeared the case at first. Did the Braves have an agreement with Wilson before they dealt LaRoche? Sure looks like it. Wonder why they waited until after arbitration figures were swapped to made the trade? And given their last 2 trades, why in the world did they sign Sturtze to a guaranteed deal. That’s at least $750,000 wasted, more if he’s ever activated, which is very doubtful minus lots of bullpen injuries.

By Wayne in UT

January 19, 2007 01:22 AM | Link to this

Been on the road with slow internet. Pulled into Rock Springs to find out we have Gonzo and this SS phenom. Good trade. LaRoche has a sweet swing, a great glove, and a penchant for striking out and killing rallies. Too many solo homers.

I was thinking last night, now someone like Craig Wilson would be a good righty platoon for 1B, and take some pressure off Thorman. He will be an asset if we don’t have to use him too much.

I think there is one more deal to be made. Could it be a package for Baldelli? (Escobar, Soriano, Davies?) Could it be Hudson to one of 2-3 teams (Texas, Cubbies for JJ, or to Toronto for Rios?) I like what I saw of Cormier as a 5th starter during a stretch last summer. If he didn’t have the pressure to go to the 6th or 7th inning, it might have boosted his confidence.

I think Escobar is gone with the addition of Lilly Liver, the leadoff man of 08 or 09. I just wish he weren’t a righty, as a lefty gets a boost heading to first from the batters box.

I can see us flipping Soriano to Tampa Bay, or unloading Huddy in the next week or so. Tampa might be satisfied with Escobar, Soriano and Davies. I would hate to see Davies go though, and would almost rather see Huddy gone first, as I think Davies is the real deal.

By Brian Jordan

January 19, 2007 01:24 AM | Link to this

Mr. Schuerholz,

Now why did you have to go and do a dang fool thing like signing the fatso, Craig Wilson. I was your MAN!! Besides, he is one Krispy Kreme away from going to the Refriderator Perry clinic for overeaters. Man, I am bummed!

By Reggie Sanders

January 19, 2007 01:26 AM | Link to this

You folks know what the next deal is going to be don’t you???

That Salty dude is going to Kansas City for ME!!! You KNOW I have killer odd numbered years. JS, I am YOUR MAN!! Forget that dang fool Brian Jordan, he is washed up. JS, give your buddy Drayton a call. Let’s do lunch!

By Drayton in KC

January 19, 2007 01:29 AM | Link to this

Hey, Johnnie. Give me a call. I would let you have Reggie Sanders and Zack Greinke for Salty and Chuckie James. I think we can work this one out home boy. You need another BIG bat now that you traded old forgetful to Pittsburgh.

DM

By Wayne in UT

January 19, 2007 01:36 AM | Link to this

DOB: Do you think we are essentially done? What’s your feelings about Cormier with this bullpen behind him, if Davies doesn’t shine? Also, with the other question marks on the starting staff, I like having Cormier in the wings.

Wilson/Thorman platoon: 260/25/75

I can live with that if they don’t miss too many throws in the dirt.

By Drummerdad

January 19, 2007 01:46 AM | Link to this

Journalist Jim, I’m back from the study of more Ugandan drummers. But I confess that it takes quite a bit for me to wrap my WASP brain around some of what they do.

I agree that CW does harken back to Braves of yesteryear: Mahler, Camp, Horner, Terry Forrester, or even Ray King!! But I respectfully submit that rather than the handle of “cheeseburger” we give him a more descriptive name. So to compromise with you on your idea I suggest we name him in honor of that revered burger establishment on the left coast. I think we should call him “Double-Double” after In & Out Burger’s double meat, double cheese burger. And it could have certain real time baseball implications too. Imagine Chip Caray telling us that Double-Double was the player of the game because he hit 2 doubles and started a double play in the 5th inning. Then there could be ground rule doubles on days when they’re on the road in San Diego and Double-Double had a few too many Double-Doubles at In & Out Burger and was glad he didn’t have to run much further. Or on a down note, Double-Double got doubled up at 1st base. Or Adam LaRoche doubles off Double-Double’s glove in Pittsburgh. I’m curious to know wat you think. I was once at a minor league game where some fellows in the stands dubbed a “full figured” guy from the visiting team with the name of “Bi-Lo” after the grocery store chain for obvious reasons.

By Jared

January 19, 2007 02:01 AM | Link to this

“KG, Braves aren’t trading Chuck James. And Mr. Baseball’s right _ why would they trade Hudson now, after fortifying the bullpen to such a degree, and having question marks about most or all of the other starters? There’s James’ youth (not really a quesion mark to me; I think he’ll have a very good season) and the age/health of Smoltz, Hampton, and just general question mark about Davies after his traumatic year. Not going to trade Hudson. No way. He’s a flat-out bargain in this market. Some of you are just talking fantasy trades now, just talking trades for the sake of trading. The pitching staff is solid, the lineup only has two big questions marks: second base/leadoff, which the Braves hope Kelly Johnson will answer at once. They don’t need and can’t afford Jacque Jones.”

Thank you for saying that DOB. These fantasy trades and the Baldelli obsession are getting old.

Anyone suggesting trading Chuck James or any of our relief pitches needs to have their head examined. The Braves have a leadoff hitter, a second baseman and someone in left-field. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Kelly Johnson will have to play his way out of that leadoff role and second base job, in my opinion. Also why can’t some just accept that trading the farm system or weaking our pitching, starting or relief, for Baldelli ain’t worth it?

If I was Schuerholz, I’d stop now, while I’m ahead.

By Robert

January 19, 2007 02:55 AM | Link to this

“With the LaRoche trade, Schuerholz has revisited 2 of the biggest mistakes he’s made as Braves GM.”

Now if he’d only revisit the biggest mistake of all - the one he makes EVERY year

By Stinky

January 19, 2007 05:54 AM | Link to this

What about Carl Crawford?

By JasonInMaine

January 19, 2007 07:17 AM | Link to this

DOB,

When the Gonzalez trade was first announced, you said you would try and check to see if there was anything new on Baldelli or if it was “dead”. Did you get a chance to ask about it with everything else going on, and if not; what are your personal thoughts?

Regards,

Jason

By Richard Cory

January 19, 2007 07:30 AM | Link to this

Stinky Do you really think we can get Carl Crawford????

By Ray

January 19, 2007 08:02 AM | Link to this

Goodmorning all. A handy pickup in Wilson. I asked yesterday a simple question and I guess this is more directed to the nah-sayers about the LaRoche trade. Are the Braves a better team at this time on paper last over this years team? This years team is a ton better. You have one of the top bullpens in ALL of baseball. Thoman/Wilson platoon will be just fine and Thorman will eventually take over that spot full time. Diaz and the kid Blanco will secure left field and Blanco will force the hand to play him everyday. Just a feeling on that one. KJ will surpass the Giles numbers at 2nd. And our starting pitchers will finally be healthy. Watch the break out year Hudson has. I like this team so much better. I truly believe this team barring major injuries will win the East and will be a 90+ win team. And then all of this “payroll” garbage can stop. We are not Boston or NY. When was the last time the Yanks won the world series. Whether you are at 80 million or 200 million, if you do not spend it wisely then it doesn’t matter what your payroll is. JS,, terrific job. I doubted you back in November. I was flat out wrong on that one. DOB as always a great job.

By Jeff R

January 19, 2007 08:17 AM | Link to this

What’s the rap on Prado? Is it his bat? I recall that he’s a pretty good defensive 2B. I’d rather see a good glove there than a bat (Kelly Johnson).

Combined, Thor and Craig Wilson should cover most of The Roach’s numbers at 1B. Wilson’s glove is okay.

I’ve got to agree with others: I don’t get why management is so high on Sturtze. Yeah, I know the Braves’ had a history of finding marginal pitchers and turning them into producers, but their luck ran out last season. Seems that they’d be higher on a healthy Boyer, a Devine, etc.

By Braves20

January 19, 2007 08:18 AM | Link to this

Craig Wilson will fit right in. he’s a .333 hitter i.e. he strikes out every third at bat. but let’s be fair and see if the wilson-thorman tandem comes close offesively to what laroche put up. defensively, we can probably assume it will be a train wreck.

By Braves20

January 19, 2007 08:32 AM | Link to this

by the way, someone asked what the rap on prado was. if you watched him last year, he has the range of a tree stump. maybe an injury was involved but i can’t wait to see the ultra competitive hampton or smoltz the first few tmes (of many) a rountine ground ball goes through the right side hole. if we’re going to deal perhaps the best defensive first baseman in the NL, let’s at least put an athlete like Kelly Johnson at second and take our lumps while he learns the position ala Giles. at least he will get to some ground balls.

By TheCutMan

January 19, 2007 08:52 AM | Link to this

This trade had to happen and I, for one, believe the Braves got the best of it. Strong pitching beats good hitting and with the addition of Gonzalez the Braves’ signature will be stamped in stone: “Give Atlanta a late inning lead and it’s over.”

Strong pitching is similar to a strong defense in football. I’ve always liked the chances of a team strong on defense over the team that hopes to outscore their opponent to win.

How many 5 run+ games did the Braves hitters generate last June and how many wins resulted? I rest my case. GREAT trade for the Braves.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 08:58 AM | Link to this

I think trading LaRoche now (selling high) was a great move. Don’t get me wrong, LaRoche is a great player. But he’s never going to be one of the elite firstbasemen (one of the top 5 or so) in the game. Schuerholz let him go at the right time, at his most desirable level.

The Braves get another closer, basically and an eventual replacement for Renteria or a secondbaseman in Brent Lillibridge.

I hadn’t heard of Lillibridge, but I just looked up his numbers (thebaseballcube.com). Very impressive so far. .289 AVG/.391 OBP/.467 SLG/63 Steals/170 G in two low minor league seasons. He was an All Pac-10 infielder and outfielder at Washington, so he seems to have the right baseball and all-around athletic skills to develop into at least a very good major leaguer—maybe a super utility guy ala Ray Durham, Chone Figgins, Tony Phillips.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 19, 2007 09:12 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Not much love shown for the DBT lyrics by the bloggers, until Warren Haynes F.P. comes through and permanently embeds the sound of that grungy guitar in “the Southern Thing” into my head. I’m diggin’ it….Y’all keep it up.

By KC

January 19, 2007 09:15 AM | Link to this

Jeff R, I have some doubts as to whether Sturtze will ever see any action in a Braves uniform. AS I see it, 6 of the 7 bullpen spots are already locked: Wickman, Soriano, Gonzalez, Yates, McBride, and Villarreal.

Yates is a favorite of Bobby Cox because of his closer-caliber stuff. Also, while his 06’ ERA is only slightly above average, when you break down his season it’s easy to see what BC sees in him. Yates was called up on May 30th. Aside from one game he pitched at the end of May, he pitched exactly 4 months for Atlanta. Take a look at his ERA’s for each of those 4 months:

June: 2.53

July: 1.35

August: 9.00

September: 2.70

His overall season ERA was 3.96. Outside of August, his ERA was 2.17. So you can see where the Braves have to hang on to this kid to see if he can avoid having a stretch in 07’ like August of 06’. If he can, we could be talking about the Big FOUR in the bullpen.

McBride is a lock because he’s lights out against left-handed hitters. Villarreal is a lock because of his versatility, and how good he looked to finish the season. Villarreal, after doing a decent job as a fill-in start in August, moved back to the bullpen down the stretch and posted a 1.42 ERA in September… giving ATL reason to believe that he’s settled back into the form that allowed him to post a 2.57 ERA in 86 appearances for the D-Backs a couple years ago (before undergoing Tommy John surgery).

So that leaves one spot for at least 5 capable candidates: Chad Paronto (3.19 ERA in 06’), Blaine Boyer (3.11 ERA in 05’… great stuff, regarded as possible future closer), Tanyon Sturtze, Phil Stockman, and Joey Devine. There are a couple other good young arms in the system that deserve a look as well.

The way I see it, it’s not just all about the new big-3 in the pen… there’s a lot of depth here from top to bottom. Barring major injury problems, this should be the best bullpen in baseball, hands down.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 09:19 AM | Link to this

As far as Craig Wilson goes, forget about the strikeouts…look at his ability to avoid outs (.354 career OBP/.646 Out Percentage) and his power (.480 career SLG, 24 HR per 162 games). True, he’s a little past his prime—he’s not likely to hit .264 AVG/.354 OBP/.499 SLG as he did in ‘04—but he’s not that far past it. Still a very valuable player. As someone pointed out, his ability to play 1B, corner OF and third-string catcher make him even more valuable.

And maybe he can become a leader to the young guys who strike out a lot like Francouer; showing him that honing his other skills (namely his plate discipline) can help him remain productive in spite of the high strikeout rate.

By Eugene

January 19, 2007 09:21 AM | Link to this

All this talk about getting this and that.. WE NEED A BAT… Chipper will be hurt and we have no left fielder who can hit the ball out teh infield.. WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT!!!!!!! GO BRAVES!!!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 19, 2007 09:36 AM | Link to this

After seeing the picture of Hambone Wilson, I can envision some pretty nasty elbows flying between him and Wicky at the buffet line in the future.

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

KC, I think that Paronto is out of options (3 yrs on a ML roster), so if he’s on the 40-man roster, he’d have to clear waivers if sent to the minors. That might give him a leg up on starting the season with ATL. Tough call; it would probably mean either Boyer or Yates starts at Richmond…

I’m not 100% sure of this though… anyone positive how this works?

By Carolina Lady

January 19, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

I would imagine that a visit to a barber is in order for Mr Wilson before he reports for Spring Training. :-))

By im4ball

January 19, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

I think this is a very good trade. In an era when starting pitchers are not going deep into games, having a solid, deep bullpen is crucial.

I disagree that LaRoche is a great first baseman. Too many times he was slow getting to first and has been beaten by guys hustling down the line…inexcusable…I know Cox cringed everytime LaRoche lolligagged to first.

I also do not think LaRoche was the hitter many said he was. His swing that so many announcers say is so great; is not great. It frankly is not even good. I believe that time will show LaRoche to be an average or below average hitter.

I believe that the Braves staff are some of the best at letting everyone believe something in order to increase the value of the player. No way the Braves lwould have let LaRoche go if he was going to be a great player in the long term.

By Lew

January 19, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Who needs the Nasty Boys. With Wicky, Paronto and Wilson we have the Buffet Boys.

By Voice of Reason

January 19, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

I agree with Robert(JITB) in that it would seem that there is still one more bullet left in the gun. JS added a pretty nice middle infield prospect where there appears to be a glut of promising middle infield prospects in the system. There are now 5-6 relievers fighting for 1-2 jobs. And the addition of Wilson makes Diaz expendable. Perhaps there is still one more deal left to bring in an everyday LF.

BC wasn’t willing to give LF to Langy last season, and I see no reason to believe that he will this season either. That being said, if he bats #8, maybe he’s at least serviceable.

Obviously, 2B is still the lynchpin in the lineup. It’s the big IF. If KJ can capably bat leaoff and play the position, the lineup is pretty stable and everyone can exhale. If he struggles offensively or defensively, we spend another season frantically searching for answers. But, hey, KJ. Just because you’re coming off of surgery, and playing a new position, and trying to set up the rest of the lineup, and you’re seen as the possible key to success/failure for the 2007 season, no pressure, buddy. Go out and have fun, OK? It is just a game, right? Right…

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

My only concern is the Braves are following the Reds, who traded away the offense that could lead them to the playoffs for a lot of good relievers who only really impact a few innings a game.

It won’t matter too much if Kelly Johnson/Prado and Thorman/Wilson are solid and Chipper stays healthy. Plus it will help if Francouer makes strides and makes outs a lot less often.

The Braves haven’t done anything near as bad as the Reds but the Reds went from 448 runs scored in the first half of ‘06 to 301 in the second half. Their run differential went from -15 to -37. The Braves had some runs to spare on the runs scored side of the equation but hopefully they didn’t take away too much from the runs scored side just to help a fraction of the runs allowed side of things.

By don

January 19, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

The headline says that Craig Wilson “once hit 29 homeruns”. Why not sign George Foster? He once hit 51 homeruns. the “spin” to find something positive to say when the Braves sign another dud is ridiculous.

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones is awsome. If anything, he knows how to keep my hopes up. Check this out

I hope we can do it. For merely 3 million more a season… not bad. Maybe we could offer a massive bonus to make for a lower annual salary. The average would be there, but the annual hit wouldn’t be high. What do I know. I don’t see the books. And it isn’t my money. But I sure hope AJ stays. I’ve watched that guy play in a Braves uni since he was in AA. He’s gotta stay. He just has to.

By Stinky

January 19, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Richard Cory, How does this sound? Langerhans & Diaz for Crawford & Baldelli, straight up? I think they’ll do it.

By Elmer

January 19, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Come on, the trade was all about saving a puny million dollars. We will live to see Adam flourish at Pitt.

By Bubba

January 19, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

so long, bert…er I mean adam

http://www.puppetuniverse.com/store/images/items/200x250/hp624-_bert.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/images/baseball/mlb/players/7253.jpg

By KC

January 19, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Shaun: I see the 2006 Mets as more of a comarison than the Reds. The Mets scored a lot of runs, and essentially told the starters “just get us to the bullpen”. It worked.

With the departure of LaRoche, the Braves probably won’t be the top offensive team in the NL as they were last year, but they’ve still got plenty of guns to keep them near the top of the league in runs scored.

With what is still a very good offense, and the best bullpen in the league… even an average starting rotation should be enough to easily win 90-plus games. If the rotation is much better than average, as I believe it will be, this could be the best Braves team we’ve seen in a while.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

im4ball,

Here are LaRoche’s numbers from last year: .285 AVG/.354 OBP/.561 SLG. Impressive, even for a firstbaseman. And at age 27, he should be pretty close to those numbers or maybe even better for the next few seasons.

Plus, by a lot of different measures—fielding pct., range factor per game and per 9 innings, reputation—he was a Gold Glove-type defender.

He was expendable for the Braves because he’s likely going to get a big raise (which will make a little more than he’s probably worth and harder to trade soon) and he’s a firstbaseman (which means he has to do more offensively to be elite). For these reasons, the Braves did a decent job getting good players in a trade while he’s at his most valuable.

True, he’s not going to get significantly better and he’s never going to be at that elite level but LaRoche is already a great player and it wouldn’t surprise me if he made the All-Star team within the next two or three years.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

KC,

I basically agree with you. The Braves need everything to go well offensively but I see no reason why they can’t be at least close to 90 wins or more.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Okay, here is how I see things right now. This will be a bit long. I know. Big surprise. LOL.

I think the LaRoche trade was made for one of two reasons and neither of them were financial. One is the Braves just wanted Gonzales that bad and felt that giving up LaRoche to get him was a good investment. Two, I think it could have been a way to get Thorman out of LF (because he is a defensive liability there)yet keep his bat in the lineup. This also will allow Gregor Blanco to go into spring training with a good shot at making the team.

I am beginning to believe that the second base job could depend on who is in LF. If Blanco in the spring continues to do what he has done the last two seasons at AA and AAA and in the winter leagues this winter, he would be hard not to choose to start in LF. If he were to get the nod, I think it would give Prado a better shot at 2B because Prado is the better defensive option there but Johnson and Aybar are better offensive options. Now, if Blanco doesn’t do well in spring and the Diaz/Langehans platoon goes into effect, I think Johnson would have to be a complete butcher defensively to not get the nod at 2B.

Regarding Blanco, I hope he does well. I am very impressed with his OBP of .403. I don’t care what level you play on that is a very impressive OBP. Especially when you consider in the minors last season his batting average was below .300. That tells me that he is a patient hitter and his success will translate to the major league level. His patience will force pitchers to throw him strikes, which can only make him a better contact hitter. I am hoping Frenchy gets some of that patience instilled in him. If so, we are looking at a .280/40HR/120RBI player. Also, the fact Blanco can steal bases makes him the perfect leadoff hitter. This kid could be the answer to the Braves prayers.

I also think Aybar will get a fair shot at 2B and we could see him and K. Johnson flip roles. Johnson can play the OF and IF. He could compliment Woodward. I personally would rather see a platoon of Aybar and Johnson at 2B but we’ll have to see.

Also, this Lillibridge kid could be a wild card. If he hits .400+ in the spring with 10 or 15 stolen bases, what will the Braves do with him? If this guy shows he can hit major league pitching, he would be tough to keep off the roster as well.

This will be a very interesting spring. One that I believe the final 25 man roster will be in question right up until the final day of spring training.

By N8

January 19, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

DOB

Very well said with your last post of the night. (12:55)

As you and everybody knows, I BASHED Hudson every chance I got, the last half of last season and at the beginning of the offseason.

If you look at his numbers (for the most part), most of his issues have been stamina. Maybe it was the oblique muscle, maybe it’s the ATL heat that wears him down, I don’t know. My main complaint was that he was brought on to be the “NEXT ACE”. IMO, Aces don’t fall apart late in the game, expecially when the bullpen is weak. THEY STEP UP. For whatever reason Hudson has not been able to do that.

Having said that (and until he proves otherwise, I’m not sure my stance on him changes), I believe he will have a nice to very good year with the bullpen that has been constructed. Those who have argued with me about the bullpen blowing leads for him will get their wish. This bullpen should preserve some “W’s” for Huddy. My guess is his innings will be in the 180-200 range, he might have around 20 wins. Not sure about the ERA, but I suspect without some of the late inning collapses, his ERA should drop as well. So DOB is correct, he’ll be a STEAL in this market and with this bullpen.

Hampton will benefit coming back from injury. No reason to make him go 7-8 innings UNTIL HE IS READY TO DO SO. Smoltz will not be out of gas in September like last year, since he won’t have to STEP UP and go 8-9 innings when he clearly couldn’t afford to do that ALL YEAR. Chuck James will beneifit as well.

We may lose some 3-2 games this year, when the offense isn’t clicking. But I think teams with good bullpens find ways to win close games. Teams with LOUSY bullpens find ways to lose them. So while our offensive production may dip a little (I actually doubt it will dip THAT much), our record in 1 run games (no matter if it’s 2-1 or 9-8) should improve. That ALONE is enought reason to think we have to be one of the frontrunners for the Wild Card if not the NL EAST. The Mets won’t have it so easy this year. Especially with their inability to add another starter. Their offense will be good. But I believe their pitching will not be as good, I could be wrong but that’s my gut feeling.

Anyhow to make a short point long, Hudson isn’t going anywhere. I beleive the PITCHING STAFF as a whole (top to bottom) will be one of the BEST in Atlanta Braves history. Sure the starters aren’t Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, Millwood in their prime. But Imagine how many wins those five would’ve racked up if they had THIS BULLPEN closing out games for them. Not to mention the stamina for the stretch drive and post season, due to being able to come out of games in the 7th innings.

Big Picture: If JS makes no more moves, I’m pretty stoked about this pitching staff as it sits right now.

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

The fact he went from SS to the OF instead of 2B or 3B is a tipoff.

Yes it is a tip off. KJ went to the OF instead of SS where Furcal was, or 2B where Giles was or 1B where LaRoche and Franco were. Or 3B where Chipper was. He went to LF where no one really was. It tipped me off to this… apparently the Braves view him as a pretty good athelete capable of doing a descent job at a new position with short notice. KJ was a SS in the minors. Now he is moving to a different side of the same bag. Giles was a 2B in the minors, but was viewed as a defensive liability. Giles worked with Hubbard and improved. KJ is now working with Hubbard around the same bag he worked in the minors. I’ll believe he’s a liability when I see KJ make the opening day roster as the starting 2B and subsequently pull a DeRosa. Until then, I don’t see any reason to really be concerned. Giles was turned from a defensive question mark to, apparently, a massive, irreplacible defensive asset. I’ll give KJ the chance to show he can do the same.
To put it another way, we aren’t moving Langerhans to 2B. We are moving a SS to 2B. Check out the Dodgers last year. The had SS at 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, and OF. They still made it.
But, that isn’t to say I wouldn’t take the Honus Wagner over KJ. I just don’t see a point in fretting over this.

By rammerjammer

January 19, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

TennPaul,

Really interesting timing on on the Andruw story. Seemingly out of nowhere, he pretty much says he’ll sign for less to stay.

Is this part of Boros’ strategy, or is this the precursor to a Vernon Wells-like announcement?

By The Grinch

January 19, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Shaun, in your 9:19 post you basically said Craig Wilson’s too old at 30 to hit .264 again. God bless you, buddy; you’re better than “The Onion” for starting the day off with a head-shaking chuckle. Peyton Manning will be 30 next season; he’ll be devastated to know his last 4-touchdown game is behind him. :-)

Stinky, I’d be willing to bet if we tossed in Salty and Jurries, we could get Kasmir, too.

By ChampDawg

January 19, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

Everybody’s talking about the bullpen. That’s fine. But I’m not at all convinced we have the starting pitching we need. Huddy was horrible last season and Hampton’s coming back from a year off. Other than Smoltzie (Lord knows he better be on his game this season) who else in the starting rotation is there to really have great confidence in right now?

By olereb

January 19, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Excellent point Tennessee Paul, it is refreshing to know that there are some mlb players that money is not the most important thing, Smoltz, Andru. It still bothers me what Furcal and Glavine did.

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

The Reds did better last year than most previous years and that was after pawning off some of that offense which had given them nothing in terms of post season hope. The Phillies traded away offense in the middle of last season and started playing better, winning more, and pushing for a playoff spot. It isn’t all about the offense. You have to have good pitching. See the 1995 Braves. They won it all on pitching. The offense wasn’t anything to speak of.

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Tennessee Paul, thanks for the link on AJ. That kind of candor is priceless.

Man, Boras must be kicking the dog this morning.

I posted in the last blog (won’t repeat it here) the structure of Vernon Wells’ contract. Something like that might make signing AJ doable.

As to trading Hudson, I doubt the Braves want to trade him. IF they do, it will be for one of 2 reasons: (1) we know we’re going to lose AJ, and the cupboard is bare in terms of frontline outfielders, so we may feel it best to go after a guy like Rios while he’s available; or (2) we plan to keep AJ and there’s simply not enough dollars in the payroll unless we dump at least one large salary.

It really depends on what the anticipated payroll is for ‘08 and beyond. There has to be some flexibility if we’re gonna keep everybody.

On the one hand, Hudson’s value may be a bit low because of an off year last year; on the other, his ridiculously low ‘07 salary might make him very enticing. That advantage goes away after ‘07.

I doubt it will happen (and am not saying it should happen), but don’t think it’s absurd to consider it.

By Greg in TN

January 19, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

TGIF Friends and neighbors,

Looks like another piece of the puzzle is in place with the signing of Wilson. Not sure what else may be in the works, if anything, however I’m very comfortable with things as it stands now at 1B with a Wilson/Thorman platoon.

Many are mentioning the fact that LaRoche’s ability to dig errant throws out of the dirt will be missed. I think there may be times where that could happen, but that’s something that just isn’t realistically a concern to me. The longer throws are going to be made from the 3B and SS positions, where we’ll have Renteria and Chipper (hopefully much more of Chipper than the past few years). Unless KJ or someone else on 2B has a Knoblauchian aversion to throwing to first, I flat out don’t see that as a problem.

For those wanting Chipper to move to first for health reasons? Won’t be a better move particularly when looking at his foot problems. There is more footwork and movement needed at the 1B position when dealing with keeping runners on than what is required at 3B when having to cover bunts. Much harder on the feet playing 1st than 3rd.

26 more days until pitchers and catchers report for spring training.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, I hope Andruw stays but I am still skeptical. Here is why. Somebody is going to have to be sacrificed and as far I can see that person will have to be one of two people. Hudson or Smoltz. Let’s say Wickman does retire after 2007 his entire salary will be absorbed by Hudson’s raise for 2008 and 2009. So, he would have to be traded. Now, in Smoltz’s case, I just don’t see him being let go. Smoltz is the face of the franchise and has sacrificed a lot to be here. He has done whatever he has been asked and has been Mr. Brave for 17 years.

Now, there is another option. Wednesday’s trade makes this perhaps the most realistic option. Yes, the LaRoche trade. The Braves have one player who is becomming more and more expendable. His name is Edgar Renteria.

Hear me out and think about this for a minute. It is possible that Brent Lillibridge is the guy that JS was holding out for. You have to ask why would the Braves want him when they already have Renteria and Escobar and Andrus. Escobar is arguably ready to be in the majors now and Andrus will be by 2009 at the latest. Renteria makes $6 million, which in this market is a steal. However, Andruw along with Chipper and Smoltz are the heart of this franchise. Of all the people who have left this team JS knows that letting Andruw just walk (for nothing) would be by far the most unpopular thing he could do. I understand that Renteria is a great player and a positive clubhouse figure but he isn’t the Atlatna Braves. Andruw is!

It is quite possible that “the other deal” I personally believe is in the works could involve Renteria. The money freed up by trading him would be more than enough to keep Andruw and if Andruw is serious about staying without having to receive Wells and Manny like money, then there will be money left to spend. The Braves could offer Andruw $3.5 mil more a year and that would still leave $2.5 mil in the bank.

I love Renteria and would not necessarily want to see him go but if it meant keeping Andruw for the next five or six years, then I would be all for it. Not to mention that Edgar’s position is the one that can be the most easily filled. Escobar and Lillibridge are waiting in the wings. Not to mention that Aybar can play SS.

I know what I am saying will tick off some folks, but really think about this. If Andruw is telling the truth, he is willing to stay for around $16 to $17 milliion. While that is a mere $3 mil or so raise, it is money the Braves currently don’t have and won’t have next year either if the roster stays the same. Now, with pitching being the premium that it is, it would keep the likes of Hudson from being shopped around. Lets not even get into if he has another medicore season he will be almost untradeable for $13 million. Even in this market.

Renteria could be on the block with Escobar and Lillibridge getting their chance to shine in spring training. If Edgar isn’t traded now, you can guarantee he will be as soon as the offseason begins next year. Lord knows there will be a market for him unlike with Giles. The Astros, Giants, White Sox (perhaps), and even the Blue Jays could all be possible trade partners.

By Porkins

January 19, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

DOB,

What are your thoughts on: 1. The Braves.com article about Andruw that everyone’s talking about

1. Bowman’s belief that Wilson’s signing could mean JS will trade Diaz?

Thanks, man.

By kjohnson

January 19, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

i think js has done a great job this offseason we made huge improvements to our bullpen i would take the braves bullpen over anyother bullpen in the majors how many other starting rotations have 3 20 game winners, sure our starting pitchers have questions, how will hampton come back, how will james pitch in his 2nd year, which hudson will show up, i honestly believe hudson will regain form, and we will have at least 3 15 game winners in our starting rotation then you look at our lineup, everybody questions our leadoff hitter, and yes i agree having speed at the top can be a big plus i think we should look at this as a possible line up edgar renteria leading off: look at his stats over the years he can still 20-30 bases easy around a .350 ob %

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

RJIB, I’ve wondered for a long time about trading Edgar… but now, with unproven commodities already at 1B and 2B, can we really consider another at SS?

I think it very likely that Escobar is on the way somewhere, even if just in a ‘minor’ deal (for a promising outfield prospect or something like that).

I just hope we’ll be very cautious in ‘throwing in’ Salty on any trade. If he returns to form, as expected, he’ll be either a valuable player or trading chip a year from now.

By Kieran from Long Island

January 19, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Jaque Jones??? Are you kidding me guys? Have you ever watched him play?? Lets be real hear the only reason people want him is because he’s not wearing a Braves hat, the second he puts one on you’ll be complaining about him and putting up posts wanting to package him with Thorman and Davies to Tampa Bay!

By Thrillhouse44

January 19, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, Thanks for reminding me about all the shortstops the Dodgers had in their infield last year. I wasn’t worried, but your point was reassuring.

By King of the hill

January 19, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

I know that our bullpen is now one of the best in the NL and possible in the MLB, but what if JS did something like this? Gonzalez to the Yankees for Proctor and Melky Cabrera

Gonzalez to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp and Craig Hansen

By King of the hill

January 19, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

I know that our bullpen is now one of the best in the NL and possible in the MLB, but what if JS did something like this? Gonzalez to the Yankees for Proctor and Melky Cabrera

Gonzalez to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp and Craig Hansen

By Bruce

January 19, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Craig Wilson minor league deal? The hot stove tracker has Wilson listed as a “minor league deal”. Hit or error?

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Shaun, in your 9:19 post you basically said Craig Wilson’s too old at 30 to hit .264 again.

What I meant was he’s probably not going to have as good a season as good as .264 AVG/.354 OBP/.499 SLG again but he is still a valuable player; he’s still a good hitter and can still play 1B and corner OF. I’m sorry if I didn’t make it clear. All I was trying to say is we’ve probably seen the best of Mr. Wilson but he’s still very solid because he’s not very far past his prime at all.

He may or may not hit .264 again, but batting average isn’t everything (doesn’t take into account walks or power/total bases). He’s not likely to have as good a season overall as he did in ‘04. But he should be a very good player for the Braves because it looks like he can still avoid outs at a good rate and still has power.

By ernesto

January 19, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

I just noticed Jurries isn’t on the 40 man roster or among the non-rosterd invitees? Did we release him? Or is he just a mortal lock for the minors next year after his bad ‘06 showing? I want to hear more about the big Hawaiian too, what’ s up with that kid?

By BUSHWACKER

January 19, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

THE STARTERS AND THE BULLPEN BETTER BE GREAT, THIS TEAM WILL BE LUCKY IF THEY SCORE 2 RUNS A GAME!!

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

1. open LF/2B
   
2. (r) Renteria
   
3. (s) Chipper Jones
   
4. (r) Andruw Jones
   
5. (l) McCann
   
6. (r) Francoeur
   
7. (l) Thorman
   
8. open LF/2B

   That isn’t a bad line up. It’s well balanced on the L/R business. Thorman doesn’t appear to be the K machine that LaRoche was, so we could see a more consistant hitter down there. I’m liking the way this is shaping up.
   Sure, if everyone gets hurt at the same time and it’s all bench players and call ups, it’s not impressive. But, no team is impressive when their entire lineup is injured. And I’m not counting on injuries happening to everyone at the same time.

   Hotdamn! I’m excited about this season. I’m settling my reservations and blocking out time on the calender for Opening Day weekend. Can’t wait. Feb 3. the Dirtbags take the field against the Trojans, and then Spring training starts up several weeks later. Then the season.

   GO BRAVES

By Voice of Reason

January 19, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

RJTIB: You said, “This will be a very interesting spring. One that I believe the final 25 man roster will be in question right up until the final day of spring training.”

Spot on, my friend. Does KJ remind any of you of Mark DeRosa a few years back? Young versatile guy that they seemed to move to any position just to get his bat in the lineup… until he blew up like Barry’s head and blew out his knee. (Hmmm… How did that happen?) This should prove to be a very interesting spring.

Great point about moving Edgar’s salary (next year) in order to free up AJ money. Absolutely could happen. Makes perfect sense, too. Subtracting Edgar’s $6M (Boston is paying some of the $10+M annual salary) gives a little flexibility; couple that with AJ’s stated desire to stay in ATL, and there is a small ray of hope, at least.

Can’t jump on the Blanco bandwagon until I see something, though…

By rammerjammer

January 19, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

I think Wilson is decent insurance if Thorman struggles, but not a difference maker. Heck, T.J. Bohn might beat him out in the spring.

Also, the fact that Renteria is good, VERY affordable and under contract through 2008 is a good reason to keep him. Maybe Elvis or Lillibridge will push him in ‘08, but no need to think about ‘07.

Note: Lillibridge was an All-PAC 10 outfielder for two years in college, so who’s to say he’s a shortstop of the future?

I suppose JS could try to move Diaz and/or Escobar, but I think he keeps both (especially since he wouldn’t get much for either).

Looks to me like the dealing is done.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

I just hope we’ll be very cautious in ‘throwing in’ Salty on any trade. If he returns to form, as expected, he’ll be either a valuable player or trading chip a year from now.

With LaRoche gone and McCann at the catchers spot hopefully for the next decade or so, Salty is likely the front runner for the 1B job long-term. Especially with the Braves trying to keep their payroll in check, I don’t think they would dream of throwing in Salty in any deal.

Baseball America still ranks him as the Braves number one prospect in the rankings they just published. True, his batting average dropped after the jump to AA, but his plate discipline didn’t really suffer (he actually had more walks per PA than he did at Myrtle Beach)—and strikezone judgment is one of if not the most important thing for a young hitter to grasp. Plus, I think he was injured which probably hurt his AVG and power. But he destroyed Arizona Fall League pitching and he showed plenty of power in the past; be careful judging him too much by what he did basically for half a season at the start of his AA career.

By Ron

January 19, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Robert(JiTB), you are probably right about Renteria, but Renteria will probably be traded next year, The Braves will try and win it all this year and Renteria will be key to doin that. But Renteria and Hampton are both Free Agents after the 2008 season. If the Braves did not trade one of them after the 07 season, the Braves might could sign Andruw at 14 million in 08, and after both Renteria and Hampton are gone, sign Andruw to 20 million in 09, and the rest of the contract it would be 17-18 million a year. Similar to the Hudson contract, he is making 6 million this season and then 13 next season. Maybe that might work. What do you think about those chances DOB.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine, I spoke yesterday to a former Rays official who now works for another AL team. While he’s not in the direct circle of Rays decision-makers now, he still knows plenty who are. I asked about Baldelli, and he said it was his understanding that they were trying to move him at one time, but had backed away recently, and this Dukes situation might have effectively put a hold on any desire to move Baldelli.

Again, as I said yesterday, everybody I’ve talked to, including Braves people, indicate they got Gonzalez for one reason _ to keep him, to have him as a setup guy and future closer. And haven’t heard a word from any team of any rumors about Soriano. In other words, no reason to believe Braves have any desire to move him.

I think they’ve assembled a hell of a balanced pitching staff, and I think they’re not going to move any key members of that staff.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

If Thorman avoids outs at close to the same rate and hits for as much power, I’m not worried about the K’s. A team’s K total has little or nothing to do with how many runs they produce. (Just had to sneak that in.)

By Voice of Reason

January 19, 2007 01:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun: I’m not sure Salty will ever wear the tomahawk in ATL. With McCann entrenched behind the plate, and Thor caretaking until Kah… Ka… the Hawaiian dude is ready, Salty could be a stud without a position. Of course, he could also bring alot in return, which is why he continues to squat behind the plate each season. (Maybe I should rephrase that…) A switch-hitting, power-hitting catcher is way valuable…

By Head Coach

January 19, 2007 01:01 PM | Link to this

Jammer’s probably right .JS is done unless somebody makes him an offer he can’t refuse.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 01:02 PM | Link to this

Damn, team’s sure taken on a different complexion in the past couple days, hasn’t it? Much as I was against the LaRoche trade, gotta say the overall set of moves this winter, given the payroll constraints, looks pretty strong to me. I think this is a far more balanced and competitive team as currently constructed, and I think this basically will be what they go to spring training with.

If they finally announce the LaRoche trade today, we’ll get to talk to Schuerholz about it and the overall situation with the team….

Hillbilly, I’m hearing you on the DBT indifference/scorn. Matters not, right? Actually kinda cool that there’s still something so great that so relatively few people are into.

Speaking of the “The Southern Thing,” just loaded most of four DBTs CDs in the Ipod yesterday, and listened to them on the laptop while working. Got the lyrics booklet out from that CD, with the cool little setup story and all. What a great concept album _ actually double album _ that was.

Unrelated, but you’ll appreciate this: Just got off phone with my 73-year-old dad, who lives in Wilson, N.C. If you had told me 30 years ago that someday I’d be talking to my dad about the Jerry Lee Lewis album _ the vintage vinyl _ I just bought at a used-record show, which dad had when it came out but now has on CD … well, strange world. Cool, too.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 01:05 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

Based on what I’ve read from some quick Google results Lillibridge is a solid defender and is athletic. True, he’s not going to be in the majors in ‘07 but he could find himself in the majors at anyone of several position by ‘08 or ‘09.

By Keith

January 19, 2007 01:09 PM | Link to this

Lillibridge was an All Pac 10 at shortstop according to this:

“Junior shortstop Brent Lillibridge and sophomore pitcher Tim Lincecum both made the first team while seven other Huskies earned honorable mention.”

http://gohuskies.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/053105aaa.html

By TN-MAN

January 19, 2007 01:11 PM | Link to this

DOB- Any idea when they are going to announce the trade?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 01:13 PM | Link to this

I have to say that I’m a bit mystified at all this gloom and doom about the lineup. Yes, LaRoche and Giles will be missed but lets not blow this out of proportion. This offense was near the top for the first two months of the season last year when LaRoche was struggling and platooning with Jordan. Giles missed a third of the season and had his worst offensive year of his career. Yet, the offense kept scoring runs. Chipper missed over 50 games last season and the offense still scored runs.

I think that LaRoche’s and Giles’ departures are being given way too much attention. Between Thorman and Wilson they can match what LaRoche did last season. Wilson is a strikeout machine but that is mainly against righties whom he’ll rarely see. Despite the strikeouts Wilson has a decent OBP. Giles’ departure will be a bit trickier. Johnson and Aybar, while being terrific offensive options, could be defensive liabilities. Prado is the best defensive option but a potential liability offensively. Lillibridge is probably a year away and even if he isn’t it is probably best in the long run that he gets another season or at least half season in the minors. Escobar would honestly be the best option of all but apparently has some hangup about playing second. I still say that Ronnie Belliard should have been signed but that looks to be less and less of an option with the signing of Wilson.

If Diaz or Langerhans do get traded, I would hope it is to the a team with some pitching like the Orioles, Cubs, Astros, and Padres.

By Stinky

January 19, 2007 01:14 PM | Link to this

Grinch, Kasmir is no Carl Crawford.

For your insolence, you must recite the Barney Song 10 times.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 01:21 PM | Link to this

DOB, in your honest opinion, do you think this could be one of those springs where the 25 man roster will be in question until the very last day of spring training.

I mean what happens if Lillibridge and Escobar put on shows this spring while Johnson and Prado struggle? What about LF? If Blanco shines like he has for the last two season and Langerhans and Diaz struggle what will Cox do?

Also, is Davies set in stone as the 5th starter or could a strong spring by Villeareal, Cormier, and Harrison cause him to get sent to Richmond?

By JasonInMaine

January 19, 2007 01:22 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Thanks a lot for taking time and answering the Baldelli question..again. You can count one more blogger who will not ask about it again (:

I agree that the Braves should keep Gonzalez and Soriano. Unless the Yanks or Sox (who need a closer) blow the Braves away with an offer, we should keep him and plan on using him as our closer next year if Wicky retires.

I feel good about this team. There are obviously still a few questions, but the pitching staff looks legit. If we can just get a LF or 2b that can play good D and leadoff! While I am not in KC’s league with it comes to optimism regarding Hudson, I do think he will have a season closer to his first year with the Braves than last year. Thanks again DOB, and here’s to reclaiming our NL East crown!

Regards,

Jason

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 01:22 PM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

Yeah, the Braves are in a good position with Saltalamacchia. From what I hear Salty isn’t going to be a great defensive player no matter where he plays but his offense is so good, it’s not going to matter that much. So the Braves can try to move him to 1B or LF (if Klesko can learn LF, Salty probably could) or they could get a lot for him in a trade.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 01:28 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

The Braves offense will drop off some, no question about it. But as long as Chipper, Andruw, and McCann are themselves, the Braves will score enough runs. True, they don’t have All-Stars everywhere and have downgraded at a few positions but they still really don’t have any weak spots…especially if Francouer continues to improve his plate discipline as he started to do at the end of last season.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 01:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, what about BJ Upton. I know the Rays were shopping him around as well. Does he have the same asking price as Baldelli. Perhaps, he could be acquired to play LF or 2B?

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 01:29 PM | Link to this

Couple things folks asked about: As I’ve said all along, the Braves did not shop Andruw this winter (despite all the rumors and speculation to the contrary), because they still believe they have at least a slim shot, maybe better, of signing him. They didn’t want to poison those chances by shopping him to other teams, and that was probably a very good business decision. Andruw’s a loyal guy, loves Bobby and the Braves, and I’d suggest he’d be much, much more likely to stay if he knows the Braves aren’t trying to shop him and want badly to keep him.

We can speculate all we want, but fact is NO ONE knows what the payroll will be if/when Liberty ever buys the team. It almost certainly isn’t going down, but it could well go up. Even if it only rises by $10 mill, that could be a big difference-maker in signing Andruw, particularly if he’d take some kind of contract with an escalating salary, starting at about $15 mill and going to $20 over a five-year span. Who knows? Braves might not want to do that because of huge commitment it’d be to him at a time when his performance could be in decline.

A lot of this will be played out this year, when they see how fit and healthy Andruw is this spring and how well he holds up. Say he’s in great shape, has relatively little knee/back issues this year, and hits .270 with 45-50 homers this year. In that case, I’d say Braves would be a lot more likely, if ownership situation looks good, to pony up a huge contract offer. But at same time, several other teams might also be more inclined to go even higher.

Just too soon to know, unless Andruw goes against Scott Boras’ advice and decides to sign early for below-market value. Braves rarely have signed guys before their contracts are up, but he’s obviously a guy they should make an exception for, if they feel he fits into their long-term plans/payroll.

Lot of complicated issues. Much more complex than some folks here are grasping. The figures you’re throwing out, what might be if they get rid of this guy, don’t re-sign that guy, etc, could be irrelevent if payroll rises or Andruw falters, etc.

Robert (JIB), I’m sorry, but you just keep throwing out random trade proposals and gut feelings, and they’re not anything I’m hearing has even been discussed. So I don’t really have informed opinions or strong feelings on most of them.

Not saying they might not happen at some point, but they’re just random ideas with no current relevance. Edgar’s not being traded. Lillibridge isn’t getting consideration for a major league job in spring training, not after playing only a half season above LOW-A BALL. He’s a year or two away.

By bruce

January 19, 2007 01:30 PM | Link to this

Jurries sent to Richmond Aug 11 2006 article says: In other moves, the Braves announced that they’ve taken first baseman James Jurries and right-hander Jason Shiell off the 40-man roster. Both cleared waivers and have been outrighted to Richmond.

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 01:30 PM | Link to this

I hear that Salty improved a lot defensively last year (part of the reason for his poor batting performance, along with injuries, was that he was very focused on catching duties).

In my world, in 2008, Salty is the starting catcher, and McCann is moved to 1B where he preserves his body and gets 600 ab’s per year. Make any sense?

By Stinky

January 19, 2007 01:31 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard Jerry Lewis sing on his telethons and he sucks. No way should any body plunk down cash for his vinyl.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 01:34 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), I filed that last post before seeing your most recent post with questions. You asked about this spring: Lillibridge, to my understanding, has no shot at making this year’s team. Still a year or two away.

Blanco, from what I’m told, isn’t a serious candidate to make the team out of spring training. But the zero home runs, according to one Braves official, aren’t an indicate of zero power. I was told he hits the ball a lot harder than, say, Juan Pierre, and should be capable of hitting some homers in future, not that that’s a big concern or anything. Important thing is, he has line-drive power, I’m told. But again, not a strong candidate to make opening day roster.

Someone asked (again) about Jurries: He was dropped from 40-man after his horrendous season. Not on the initial list of non-roster invitees to spring training. So I’d say about zero chance of him making team this spring. My, how fortunes change in one year (or 10 months), right?

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 01:36 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Lillibridge isn’t moving from the infield. Scouts say he’s an even better defensive infielder than a hitter, and you see his hitting totals and stolen bases. Very impressive.

Said to have a plus-arm, plus-range, great quickness, great hands.

By rammerjammer

January 19, 2007 01:40 PM | Link to this

Keith,

We’re both right about Lillibridge. He was All Pac 10 as an outfielder his first two years, then switched to SS and was All Pac 10 his last season at Washington. Sounds capable of playing either spot, though he’s only been a shortstop as a pro.

By beachcomber

January 19, 2007 01:46 PM | Link to this

DOB - Enjoyed your comment about your Dad who only has a few years on me. Did you invest in that Icon turntable yet? My only complaint is too much work and not enough time to use it.

RJIB - You make too much sense in your analysis of our team. Like you, I am excited by what little I have seen of Blanco. March can’t get here soon enough.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 01:52 PM | Link to this

MBATL,

McCann is much better defensively than Saltalamacchia, from everything I’ve heard and read, so I the Salty is going to be the one to move if they keep him. And if Salty keeps on hitting, it will be just as important to keep him fresh for 600 AB’s. In fact, Salty looks like he could be better than McCann offensively. Both are amazing talents. As I said, the Braves are in a great position with those two players.

Salty in number 18 on the BA prospects list and they’ve done an excellent job with their list. Since 1990 they’ve been ranking prospects and almost all the hitters they’ve placed in their top 18 have become something in the majors. Many in the top 18 have become stars or superstars.

The Braves need to be blown away in a possible Salty deal, otherwise I say move him to 1B or LF. My guess is they are keeping him at catcher to increase his trade value so that a team may give up a lot to get him. But if they don’t get exactly what they want (probably at least two prospects close to that level) they should keep him and move him to 1B or LF.

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 01:53 PM | Link to this

What the heck; 2008 Opening Day Lineup:

1. Lillibridge, SS
2. B McCann, 1B
3. C Jones, 3B
4. A Jones, CF
5. J Franceour, RF
6. S Thorman, LF
7. J Saltallamachia, C
8. Eric Campbell, 2B

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 01:54 PM | Link to this

Payne: I know you would perfer your team to strike out or walk, but the rest of us would love to see the guy put the ball in play. I’m not sure why you keep hoping our call ups strike out more than the rest of the league.

By the way, Hammerin’ Hank never K’d 100 times in a single season. Neither did the Babe. Barroid has K 100 times in a season just once.

By rammerjammer

January 19, 2007 01:59 PM | Link to this

We don’t have a dog in the fight, but I wonder how LaRoche will adjust from being the #7 hitter to being THE MAN.

Clearly, the expectations for him are much greater in Pittsburgh than they would’ve been in Atlanta. Is he the kind of guy who has the mental makeup to WANT that kind of “team leader” role?

As I said earlier, the Pirates have taken a greater risk than the Braves because they’re depending MUCH MORE on LaRoche than we are on Gonzalez, and really asking him to play a role he’s never played.

By comparison, the transition for Gonzalez should be easy, especially if he becomes a co-closer with Wickman.

I hope LaRoche is very successful, but some guys find a niche and are never comfortable out of it. The fact that he doesn’t have cable TV and likes solitude might be a clue.

By Richard Cory

January 19, 2007 02:02 PM | Link to this

Stinky: Don’t know about giving up Diaz. He can hit, a little. Maybe just Langerhans and a prospect!!!!

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 02:07 PM | Link to this

Shaun, regarding my ‘08 lineup and your comment, which came in after my post… okay. Keep McCann at C and move Salty to 1B… my only complaint is that McCann is one of the best overall hitters in the game, and he’s only gonna get about 450 ab’s as a catcher. But, I could go either way.

If guys develop as hoped, we’re gonna be loaded offensively for the next few years. 2007 is kind of a transitional year while we wait for a couple of great prospects (Campbell, Lillibridge, Saltalamacchia) to mature.

By SeattleBrave'sFan

January 19, 2007 02:12 PM | Link to this

DOB…Good stuff as always. I like this team, hesitant at the trade at first, but liking the situation even more that we now have atleast a guy who can put up some power numbers. Remembering that this team was solid offensively with the likes of Julio Franco, a shaky young Laroche and at one time a guy named Fick maning 1B. I’m excited about this bullpen, like you said now a very balanced team overall. Cherish those moments with your Dad, very cool, mine passed away at 58 in October, although I took him to see Pulp Fiction when it first came out and realized that we were far off base in our tastes…By the way, before reading this blog had never heard of Drive-By Truckers, now have some work on the IPOD and loving it…Good stuff…

By Head Coach

January 19, 2007 02:16 PM | Link to this

I would have to agree about Blanco. Cox isn’t going to have three raw young players in his lineup everyday in LF-1B-2B. But it will still be a disappointment when and if he goes back to Richmond. Just going through some old notes and realized that in spite of the top heavy payroll it looks much more flexible for the future of the Braves. JS has eliminated five multi-million dollar contracts from the payroll this offseason. Soriano and Gonzalez could make Wickman expendable after the 07 season , which would free up the extra cash to possibly resign Andruw. Hampton ,Chipper , Renteria and Villarreal are all free agents after the 08 season and its safe to say two of them will probably either already be gone or won’t be back. Hudson is signed through 2009 and there are no other major contracts after that as of yet. Almost all the rest of the youngsters wont be unrestricted free agents until after 2010-2011. So you see , signing Andruw to a 20 million multiyear contract isn’t nearly the bear it looks like. I think its safe to say the Braves will probably be under different ownership by then and with a larger payroll.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 02:17 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, I think you make an excellent point. LaRoche struggled last year when he was the #5 hitter. Now, it is fair to say his being platooned had something to do with that. But, it did appear even after he began playing everyday that he did his best work from the #7 hole. So, it will be very interesting to see how he reacts hitting cleanup everyday.

DOB, I think the pitching staff is very good. The rotation still has some questions, but the bullpen is as good as it has been over the last 15 years. Villereal, McBride, Wickman, Gonzales, and Soriano are as solid as any group bullpen arms in the majors. If whomever fills the other slots can be productive, this pitching staff will be great. However, it still could be better. Especially the rotation. I still have some concerns about the lineup only because 2B is a question mark and despite what anyone says a leadoff hitter is important.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 02:18 PM | Link to this

trade will be announced at 3 p.m., schuerholz doing a conference call.

By Dave

January 19, 2007 02:19 PM | Link to this

This guy is all class!

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070118&contentid=1782037&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

I wish him the best. It’s another example of why Andruw is willing to take less to stay.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 02:22 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

As long as the Braves score enough runs, I could care less how many strikeouts they have. And I prefer my team to avoid outs at a high rate because that’s what’s important; not how you make the outs that you do make.

As I’ve said, strikeout rankings have virtually no relation to runs scored rankings. Out percentage rankings are very related to runs scored rankings. But I guarantee you you haven’t bothered to find out that that is a fact. You just want to hold on to what you believe about strikeouts.

Aaron and Ruth may have never struck out 100 times but Ryan Howard did last season, Mike Schmidt did almost every year, as did Reggie Jackson, Willie Stargell and other Hall of Famers.

And the 1927 Yankees, the most prolific offensive team in history, led their league in strikeouts.

The teams that are the best at putting the ball in play often times finish in the bottom in scoring and the teams that are the worst at putting the ball in play often finish at or near the top in scoring. How do you explain that fact, if strikeouts are such a huge deal? No one ever answered that question.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 02:27 PM | Link to this

MBATL,

McCann is also one of the best defensive catchers in the game from what I understand. Salty hasn’t been all that good. Even if he improves his defense, he’s probably not going to be as good as McCann. Dare I say, McCann could become another Yogi.

By Dave

January 19, 2007 02:39 PM | Link to this

Wickman Soriano Gonzalez Villareal McBride Paronto Yates Sturtze

That Bullpen looks pretty good. Paronto was solid all year around, consistently around 3.00era and he got alot of groundballs. Yates was shaky but i think if he got some control he would help out alot. they can develop Devine and a few other without pressure of sending them up early. I think our offense will be fine as long as they’re healthy. I think Chipper will have a good year.

By Cabbage

January 19, 2007 02:39 PM | Link to this

Just so we can get off on the right foot, my name is pronounced Ca-bazh. Anyone making fun of my name is ignorant. So, let’s talk baseball. I believe that these big out of shape ballplayers are going to backfire on the team (backfire may not be the best choice of words now that I think about it). Say, Wilson comes in and gets gassed having to bend over to field low throws from Chipper Jones - who do we have to put in at first base? Say, Wickman gets gassed going to the mound, which reliever comes in next? Portly ain’t pretty. Whos said Betemit was too big to play second base?

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 02:40 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I dunno. I hear McCann calls a very good game - I would guess that’s partly instinct (and he has plenty), and part teaching and coaching.

Statistically, he’s middle of the road, at best, as a defensive catcher.

Please - I’m not putting McCann down, and am just trying to find a way to get his bat into the lineup more often and maximize our other resources.

It’s just a thought though… I doubt there are any plans to move him to 1B. I’ll copyright it in case it sells, but not likely.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 02:43 PM | Link to this

Actually, trade already announced. Just got official release. Nothing new that you don’t already know.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 02:49 PM | Link to this

Cabbage,

Two words: ‘93 Phillies.

“I’m not an athlete, I’m a baseball player.”

By ernesto

January 19, 2007 02:56 PM | Link to this

Hey, there were some Pirate fans here yesterday and we forgot to tell them, if you boo Laroche when things are going badly, don’t cheer for him when he does well.

It annoys him.

The Buccos got a good man, I hope he does well against everyone but the Bravos, natch.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 19, 2007 02:58 PM | Link to this

SeattleBravesFan,

Glad to see another one convert to DBT world. And btw, Pulp Fiction is one of my top 5 all time favorite movies.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 19, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Life is short ‘spite of our plans,

so tell the girls they’re pretty while you can…..

By summerteeth

January 19, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, Lillibridge sounds like a Khalil Greene type, no?

By Mike

January 19, 2007 03:09 PM | Link to this

how bout ryan freel for a leadoff hitter?…you’d have to give up a lot more for bodelli or crawford and freel has as good if not better on base percentages…hes also capable of stealing 40 to 45 bases and playing left field everyday…you could probably trade escobar and diaz for him and if thats not good enough include paronto or yates in the deal…how bout this lineup: 1. Ryan Freel LF 2. Edgar Renteria SS 3. Chipper Jones 3B 4. Andruw Jones CF 5. Brian Mccan C 6. Jeff Francouer RF 7. Kelly Johnson 2B 8 Scott Thorman 1B SP 1. John Smoltz 2. Tim Hudson 3. Mike Hampton 4. Chuck James 5. Kyle Davies RP 1. Bob Wickman 2. Mike Gonzalez 3. Rafael Soriano 4. Macay Mcbride 5. Oscar Villareal 6. Blaine Boyer 7. Tyler Yates Bench 1. Craig Wilson 1b/of 2. Willy Aybar 2b/3b 3. Ryan Langerhans 0f 4. Chris Woodward ss/2b/3b/1b/of 5. Bryan Pena C

Thats a world seriew roster boys and by my calculations is less than the infamous 80 million dollar payroll

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 03:20 PM | Link to this

Way to go Payne. The three top home run hitters in the 140 years of baseball, k’d less than 100 times a season. The top hitters for AVG in 140 years of baseball K’d at low rates. The K doesn’t produce as many runs as the Sac Fly (ball in play, flyball). A strong K/BB ratio typically requires very few K’s and way more BB and generally means the guy has a great OBP or Out Percentage depending on how you want to look at it. The K is a sure fire out. The ball in play has a much greater probability of not being an out compared to the K.

I think you miss the point when everyone seeks a guy who doesn’t K 120+ times. We aren’t saying trade Ryan Howard because he Ks. Trade AJ because he Ks. We’re saying we’d like to see less Ks. That’s it. The reason is exactly because the ball in play has a much greater probability of not being an out compared to the K.

Pull up the all time guys with the fewest K for a significant playing time, (don’t come back with Moonlight Gram). They’re all types of players you’d want on a team. All typically consistant.

It’s your old statement Payne: Clutch number mirror regular numbers given similar sample sizes. Would you rather have a guy K at a high rate, or low rate if all else is considered the same? If he Ks a lot in non-clutch he’ll K a lot in clutch and vice versa. You have already said you’d want a low rate. I’m not sure why you get upset when we seek to find a positive in Thorman because he K’s less than LaRoche. And I scrolled over this blog, I couldn’t find anyone who said a guy with a lot of Ks can’t be productive. I did find a lot that said they’d like to see a productive guy K less. I’m not sure how that could even conflict with anything.

By Art

January 19, 2007 03:21 PM | Link to this

First, let me compliment DOB and the bloggers. This is the best blog in AJC Sports. I see none of the racist, hate-filled posts that are so prevalent in the other sports blogs in the AJC. Also, for the most part the posts all seem pretty intelligent and the disagreements are handled with class and humor.

I think the trade is a good one for both teams and for both players. For Roachy, think how many long fly-ball outs at the TED are going to be homers at PNC. Gonzo’s going to be pitching a pitchers ballpark as one of two top notch setup men instead of the closer. He’s going to have a lot less pressure. (Hopefully, the pressure will be because he’s now on a contender.)

As for Roachy’s bonehead play last season, I think it was a wakeup call for him. I think he finally addressed a longterm medical problem and we finally saw what a healthy LaRoche is capable of.

My only complaint for the Braves is that Atlanta is better than a small to mid-market city and the ownership insists on making us a small to mid-market team.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this

Mike,

The Reds aren’t trading Freel without getting a a cheap, star player or close to it. Freel is pretty valuable because of his versatility and salary.

By ernesto

January 19, 2007 03:25 PM | Link to this

Freel? Why? He’s got good wheels but doesn’t he hit in the low 270’s? That ain’t your lead off hitter on a WS team.

By LudaChris

January 19, 2007 03:29 PM | Link to this

Hey David,

What do you think the chances are that the Braves might back off on their insistence to only offer shorter contracts and give Andruw an 8-year deal? I know these things aren’t set in stone by any means, but there’s a very interesting article on the Braves page at MLB.com in which Jones states he’d likely accept an 8-year, $16 million deal if it meant staying with the Braves. I mean, I forget if he makes $13.5 or 14.5 million this year, but that’s only a couple extra million you need to come up with to stay within your budget for your franchise player. I know the Braves won’t offer him a deal like that before the season starts, and it’s likely that he won’t feel the same way about that 8-year, 16 mill when other teams offer 20 million or more after the season ends. But just to put it in perspective. Just wanted to hear your thoughts.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this

JUST GOT OFF CONFERENCE CALL WITH SCHUERHOLZ, and the two things that came out of it that you’ll want to know: Thorman is going to get a chance to play every day, not platoon. At least that’s what John S. said, though he said that’s ultimately up to Bobby. That’s how organization views it though, they think Thorman is ready to be prodcutive in 450-500 plate appearances.

Wilson could play at least as much in LF as 1B.

He reiterated hopes that Kelly J will nail down 2B job and be big candidate for leadoff.

AND I ASKED HIM IF HE ANTICIPATED GOING TO SPRING TRAINING WITH THIS ROSTER. He said yes. Wouldn’t rule out other possible moves, but made it clear that he and organization are very comfortable with team as it is.

Doesn’t sound like they’ll be any more significant moves unless a team just blows away braves with an offer that clearly makes them better right now.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 03:42 PM | Link to this

This argument about strikeouts are silly. A strikeout is rarely a good out. Yes, there are times that a strikeout could be better than a groundball out such as if there are runners on 1st and 3rd with one out and a double play results out of that groundball. Generally speaking, I would rather have hitters who put the ball in play than strikeout. Anything can happen when the ball is put into play. It also has to do with where in a lineup a player hits as well. The first three spots in a lineup should be occupied by the best OBP guys on the team and who strikeout the least. They will get the most at-bats of anybody else on the team.

On the flip side of that a guy who has a high OBP but strikesout a lot (Craig Wilson) isn’t that bad. But, I still say I would rather have the guy who puts the ball in play. The one thing that limits Furcal is that he strikesout too much. For being a leadoff hitter with the speed that he has, he needs to put the ball into play more. This also goes to the whole having speed in the lineup issue. Speed puts pressure on the defense and can cause errors. Speed also takes a cutoff ball into the gap from a single to a double. If you have a guy who is fast and puts the ball into play (Johnny Damon is a good example) then you have one heck of a player.

Players who strikeout a lot are generally lacking patience which makes the pitcher’s job that much easier. That was Francoeur’s problem last season. He went up there hacking on the first couple of pitches and found himself down 0-2 and 1-2 frequently. Those counts favor pitchers and allows them to throw “pitcher’s” pitches. Now, take someone like what Gregor Blanco appears to be. If a pitcher knows that a guy isn’t likely to swing at the first pitch or go after pitches on the fringes of the strike zone, it plaecs all the pressure on the pitcher. One of the things I have noticed and admire about David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez. They both work the count and more often than not make the pitchers throw “hitter’s” pitches. Pitchers know they can’t just throw crap because they won’t swing at it. Think how many times Francoeur went after the first pitch and how often that first pitch was not a strike. If he can learn “some” patience this year, he very well could become one of the 10 or 15 most dangerous hitters in all of baseball. Players like that scare pitchers. Think Brian McCann. Plain and simple. Strikeouts are counterproductive most of the time.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 03:48 PM | Link to this

Summerteeth _ sounds like a pretty good comparison, though Lillibridge has LOT more speed and probably a bit less power (Greene’s a consistent 15-homer-year-guy in the majors). I know it’s way early to be comparing an A-ball star (Lillibridge) to Khalil, but sounds like Lillibridge has serious and well-rounded talent.

By KC

January 19, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Do you think they’ll have Wilson spend any time behind the plate during practices? I mean… just to keep him from getting too rusty there should they need to use him as a 3rd catcher at any point?

By rammerjammer

January 19, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

Well, there you go then. Let’s load up the bus and head to Florida, boys. We got some scores to settle.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 03:55 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

Well, I agree with a lot of what you say. But actually there a lot of guys that didn’t strikeout a lot that I wouldn’t take over other guys who struck out more. It’s the total package I’m more interested in. I’m fine with a guy who makes most of his outs via the K, as long as he can do things that create a lot of runs for my team.

But what I’m arguing against are those who say “good things happen when you put the ball in play.” I think that way of thought can get you in trouble if you are a major league GM because keeping strikeouts down isn’t necessarily conducive to scoring a lot of runs.

My primary concern would not be strikeouts, although for certain types of players strikeouts are more of a problem than others (players without much power and/or without the ability to draw a lot of walks). My primary concern would be getting guys who can prolong innings and keep our defense off the field for as long as possible. Other things are very important, but that would be my goal first and foremost.

Yes, a K is a sure-fire out but a guy with no power/no ability to hit the ball hard, putting the ball in play is going to result in a lot of outs at the major league level. Putting the ball in play all the time works at the high school level because defense is not great. But at the major league level, if you don’t hit for power or have a lot of speed (Ichiro), you aren’t going to survive long by merely making contact.

And yes, in certain situations, it’s better to make a contact out than a K out. But it’s dangerous to build your team around what happens in certain situations because you may neglect what can lead you to score a lot more runs. I’ll take my chances in those situations if I can build a team that scores a ton of runs (but still strikes out a lot).

So, yes, I do think it’s very good to have total-package guys like Bonds (without ‘roids preferably) who hit a ton of homers, walk a ton and never strike out. But those type guys are few and far between. I would build my team around guys who avoid outs and, when they make contact, clobber the ball.

By KC

January 19, 2007 03:57 PM | Link to this

MBATL: Whew… you’re really going out there with that 08’ starting lineup, aren’t you? McCann at 1B? Salty at 1B seems more likley. Whole new middle infield? Andruw returning for 08’?

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this

Rammer, that was concise and funny. Almost gets me fired up and ready to go to Florida….

KC, I don’t know. It’s really unimportant, the third catcher, in the big picture. How many times has it ever, ever been necessary? I mean, it’s nice to know you’ve got a guy who’s caught before as your third guy. That’s all you need to know, that he can still squat and catch a breaking ball or get a glove on a hard slider. Sure looks big enough to block the plate.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 04:05 PM | Link to this

Well, I’m comfortable with the roster as is also. It could be better but its a lot better than the one the ‘06 season ended with. However, with all due respect JS said the same thing after the Soriano deal and Giles’ release. I think he is still working to make things happen because he has to know if K. Johnson fails in the spring that he has no real backup plan unless he puts Aybar at 2B.

By Shaun

January 19, 2007 04:14 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

Again, it’s situational as to whether strikeouts are bad or good. But you bring up Ortiz and Ramirez and both hitters strikeout a good bit. Yes, they work the count but they also strike out over 100 times a year. And strikeouts aren’t Francouer’s problem. It’s his lack of patience. You can be a patient hitter and still strikeout a lot, as odd as that sounds. There are plenty of guys who strikeout a lot and walk a lot.

By rammerjammer

January 19, 2007 04:15 PM | Link to this

DOB,

“Almost?” Dang, can’t you just hear that sweet sound of the ball popping the mitt…the swearin’ and spittin’…the great smell of a freshly mowed ballfield…the warm sun on a beautiful day…

And you’re “almost” fired up? C’mon now.

By TN-MAN

January 19, 2007 04:16 PM | Link to this

DOB- Have any quotes on what Gonzalez had to say at the news conference?

By AdirondackDave

January 19, 2007 04:29 PM | Link to this

From a talent point of view, including minor league talent, the Braves organization looks like the strongest it’s been since 1992 when I started following the club closely.

They look very competitive to me for ‘07 and as far as the eye can see. They should be fun to watch.

By Phat Bat Boy

January 19, 2007 04:35 PM | Link to this

I’m very, very, very far removed from being a big Schuerholtz fan, but I really like what he has done this off-season. While Soriano and Gonzales both fall under the “reclamation” category, it is a helluva lot better than asking Remlinger to turn back the clock about 5-6 years like we did last off-season. Opposing GMs are not trying to help the Braves and trading young and inexpensive fire ballers has to make one suspicious. But I appreciate that our GM learned his lesson about the value of putting some cash toward the bullpen. PLAY BALL!

By KC

January 19, 2007 04:40 PM | Link to this

DOB: It’s not overly important in the sense of how often they might actually use him behind the plate… but knowing that they could use him there could be valuable.

That value would come into play on McCann’s days off. If you think about it, there were numerous instances last year when BC probably would have liked to use McCann to pinch hit when he’s not starting, but he won’t because he doesn’t want to leave himself without a catcher on the bench in case of injury.

Let’s say Wilson’s playing LF on McCann’s say off. You’ve got a chance to use McCann to pinch hit in a clutch situation. As long as you’ve got an outfielder or anyone who can play 1B on the bench, then you can go ahead pinch-hit McCann, knowing that if the catcher goes down, Wilson can step in.

It’s only important every 5th day or so… but having McCann available in those clutch situations could conceivable mean the difference in a game or two over the course of a full season.

By N8

January 19, 2007 04:44 PM | Link to this

DOB

Just got done listening to the conference call.

Like always, JS sounds confident and like he got/did exactly what he wanted (with our budget restraints) since the season ended.

Sounds good to me. But then again I’m a sucker for press conferences. LOL!

btw: DOB, I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t ask JS what HIS top five music artists are. LOL! Just kidding man!

By PopeVanIII

January 19, 2007 04:46 PM | Link to this

DOB,

The most frequent name I’ve seen in finding a comparison for Lillibridge is Furcal. Moderate power, great range, great arm, lots of speed.

Interestingly, note that Furcal had never played above A-ball when he made the Braves’ squad in 2000. I think such a situation is less likely now, given the middle infield depth of this organization, but if Kelly Johnson really struggles defensively and Lillibridge were to get an invitation to camp and hit well, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that he could make the squad.

Your thoughts?

By Rick Roberts

January 19, 2007 04:48 PM | Link to this

Trade to benefit both teams, but the Braves now have the best BP in MLB and a great bench for Bobby to work with. Kelly J. was a SS so he will adapt to 2B and give us a better bat than Giles or Prado. 1B is in good hands. The Braves are so, so much better than last year and Gonzalez will counter NL East sluggers like Ryan Howard and Carlos Delgado. Villareal and Cormier could be sleepers to further enhance the staff. Now, we still have a lot of trade bait: Davies, Langerhans, Diaz, Yates, Paronto, Prado, and Orr. John S. will do some more trading before Opening Day. Could still use Chone Figgins. Sign AJ, too, while he is receptive to working with the Braves on contract terms. This will be a fun Braves’ year!

By N8

January 19, 2007 04:51 PM | Link to this

DOB

I noticed listening to the conference call that JS mentioned the fact that he “leaned” on Brian Snitker’s (Braves new 3rd base coach and last years Richmond Manager), opinion of Thorman.

I never really thought about that aspect of it. But just like when Leo came “up” to be the Braves pitching coach (after years in their system working with the young guys), in that it is an INCREDIBLY smart move bringing up the minor league coaches/managers to replace the coaches that have left. They know the players, and their tendancies and gives the young guys a sence of somthing familiar as opposed to being THRUST into the big leagues with a bunch of guys the’ve only been around in spring training.

I like the fact (I’ll believe it when I see it), that they’re gonna let Thorman play everyday. I suppose unless he FAILS MISERABLY in the spring, it’s his job to lose. But like I said, I’ll believe it when I see it. Bobby used to say that Klesko was gonna play everyday too, and that NEVER happened in Atlanta.

By Jared

January 19, 2007 04:54 PM | Link to this

DOB What do the Braves do if one of the starters goes down early like last year? With the departures of Thompson and Ramirez we no longer have depth in our rotation. Would they give Lerew another shot?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 04:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun, wouldn’t a lack of patience tend to lead to a high strikeout total. What do you think causes Francoeur to strike out so much. He has good pitch recongnition. He is not a “stupid” hitter. He is just too aggressive.

By Bobby

January 19, 2007 05:09 PM | Link to this

DOB: What happens to Diaz if Wilson gets as many ABs in LF as 1B?

By JC FROM UT

January 19, 2007 05:19 PM | Link to this

DOB: Do you think JS will offer Smoltz an extention soon or will he let the season ride out then make him an offer? Also, will Smoltz sign for a little less than market to be sure that he retires as a Brave? If I were JS, I would make an offer now of one more year plus a mutual option. I’m just not sure if I would invest “market value” money for someone his age and wear on the elbow.

By brian

January 19, 2007 05:19 PM | Link to this

snybody know any details about the Tom Glavine charity auction at the 755 club or know where I can get more info online?

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 05:20 PM | Link to this

Payne: Glad you see where I’m coming from.

Now, With Thorman at the bottom of the order, putting the ball in play, we have a good chance to see consistent hitting, i.e. less streaky hitting. We could even see similar production. not the same number of Homers, but it’s possible he could even out on the RC index. Though I don’t really like the Runs Created Formula. If that’s your thing, it isn’t without reason to hope Thorman could do well.
Anyway, with Thorman at the bottom of the line up producing a consistent .290 average with descent power I think we have ourselves a more balanced line up. Francoeur and AJ are the streaky guys now. The rest seem capable of being consistent. That, along with a fabulous pen, should help avoid another June 06. Our offense was a roller coaster last year. As powerful as it was it was pretty quiet in June. I think the new line up has the potential to be consistent all the way through and that should help. It’s kind of like the Phillies last season after they traded Abreu. They played better. Not that Abreu was bad, but the offense obviously wasn’t balanced. It was a short period of time though and I’m really, really hoping they fall apart next year (but not when the Mets play ‘em). Seeing the Phillies lose is almost as gratifying as watching the Cubs blow it. Well, I don’t know. There isn’t much that can compare to the Cubs blowing it. They do it with such style and fashion. And amazing efficiency.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 05:22 PM | Link to this

Too early to answer so many of the hypothetical questions. I have no idea what happens to Diaz if Wilson gets as many ABs in LF as 1B. Braves could trade Langerhans or Diaz, who knows? Just too early to tell. Maybe Wilson only gets 100 ABs at 1B and 100 in LF, plus 50 as a pinch-hitter. Just too early to know how it’ll all play out.

TN-MAN, Gonzalez wasn’t on a conference call. But I just got off the phone with him 10 minutes ago, first time I’ve talked to him. He’s genuinely thrilled and says he’s pumped up to join this staff, has nothing but respect for Wickman, doesn’t care what his role is, etc. He’s always admired Smoltz, remembers Hudson since Oakland days and Hampton since Houston days (Gonzalez is from a town or suburb just outside Houston).

Anyway … gonna write something for the paper now.

By Mike

January 19, 2007 05:34 PM | Link to this

Did anyone notice that Pete Orr is not even listed on the current depth chart?…I really hope that this isnt the end of his tenure, he is a terrific bench player. I understand that Woodward can play more positions than Orr, including playing shortstop, but Orr is a better hitter and is quicker. Woodward only hit 216 last year. I dont know if the Reds are interested in trading Ryan Freel but if they are the braves should jump on him if they don’t have to give up too much. Some people don’t like that idea due to the fact that Ryan Freel is a career 274 hitter which is far lower than other potential leadoff hitters such as Rocco Bodelli and Carl Crawford…But everyone would agree that a leadoff hitters first priority is to get on base and Freel’s lifetime on base average is 367, Bodelli’s is 329, and Crawford’s is 326….Freel would also be much cheaper than the other two players and could steal around 40 bases. I agree that it would take a young, inexpensive superstar to get him but the braves do have that in Salamachia or Escobar…They could package one of them with Matt Diaz and that could get it done…This is assuming the Reds are interested in parting with him

By Ron Roberts

January 19, 2007 05:34 PM | Link to this

Having read what DOB wrote about the conference call, noting that JS is prepared to go into opening day with this roster, I have to say….

…this is not a World Series contender.

We all know how baseball is… long season, good and bad bounces… good and bad luck… lucky breaks… untimely injuries, etc. etc.

Folks, we go into this season with less rotation depth (neverMIND an aging John Smoltz, recovering Mike Hampton atop the rotation) then we did before the offseaon trades. We are less assured of our offense then we were before the trades, and more assured that our bullpen would hold any leads we actually gave ‘em.

We gotta give ‘em leads, though. I think we over did it with the bullpen fixing, and are hoping for way too much good luck when it comes to starting pitching and our daily lineup.

We hope John Smoltz stays healthy as he approaches his 40s.

We hope Tim Hudson starts pitching like the Tim Hudson Oakland had.

We hope Mike Hampton comes back as good as he was when he left.

We hope Chuck James doesn’t encounter a sophomore slump.

We hope we find a serviceable fifth starter among two middle relievers and am injury-plagued guy who’s yet to establish himself at the MLB level.

We hope our heir-apparent at 1B will be able to do about 70-75% of what Adam LaRoche did, offensively, without costing us defensively.

We hope Kelly Johnson matures into a leadoff man and will have learned to play 2B because it’s what we need.

We hope Jeff Frnacoeur gets over the hump and becomse the star we all believe he’ll be - with a better batting average.

We hope we have a viable LF in Craig Wilson or Ryan Langerhans or Matt Diaz or Kelly Johnson (if Prado or Aybar or Woodward gets to play 2B over Johnson).

This team needs a lot of hope to be a playoff factor in 2007. I liked our chances better before the LaRoche trade, frankly, because having him eliminated any cause for concern on offense and defensively on that side of the infield, leaving only 2B to patch up. I’ll be there, opening day, hoping things go our way….

…but that’s a LOT of hoping to do, ain’t it?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 05:48 PM | Link to this

Ron, I agree with you to some extent. I am actually more concerned with 2B and LF than I am Thorman. I think Thorman will be just fine, especially with Wilson as his backup. I like Kelly Johnson but I have my doubts that he can get it done at 2B. I think the Braves would have been better suited to acquire Mark Loretta and have Johnson ease into the position but they went a different direction. I believe a LF has to and will be acquired before the season starts. I like Diaz and Langerhans but they have deficiencies. Diaz is good offensively but awful defensively and vice versa for Langerhans.

I know DOB has said that Blanco nor Lillibridge really fit into the Braves plans for ‘07 but I hope he is wrong. I think the team would be better off with those two guys at LF and 2B respectively than the current options.

With Dukes messing up again, it seems Baldelli’s availability is in question. I did read though that the Rays were going to stick with Dukes because at this point they really can’t get rid of him.

By Chop Chop

January 19, 2007 06:06 PM | Link to this

Ron, this team wasn’t a World Series contender with LaRoche. The fact is that the Braves are just trying to make the playoffs. That’s it. If they can pull that off, they’ve got a shot. Now that the division title streak is over, I can be happy with the Braves “just” making the playoffs. One year removed is an eternity for a sports fan, I think.

By Lew

January 19, 2007 06:07 PM | Link to this

RonRoberts-The Cardinals won the World Series last year and they have more questions than the Braves. So do the Mets. So do the Phillies. So does every team in baseball. The real issue is that you choose to look at it all in the most negative terms possible. If there weren’t questions, the Yankees would win it all every year.

By Boom

January 19, 2007 06:24 PM | Link to this

DOB—I like everything the Braves have done with Soriano, Gonzalez, Lillibridge, and Wilson but I THINK WE STILL NEED THE LEADOFF HITTER TO MAKE THIS TEAM COMPLETE. K. Johnson may be ready for second and that is fine but as the leadoff hitter too, I just do not see it. WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THE REDS WOULD TRADE US RYAN FREEL? I think he is a perfect fit for the Braves and we could get him for Wickman since the Reds need a closer or for some prospects. He is just a pure ball player and wreaks havoc for all opposing teams. He is an absolute fire starter and would be a perfect fit for the top of the Braves line-up till Lillibridge or someone else is ready. IF WE HAD HIM, WE WOULD HAVE AS COMPLETE OF A TEAM AS YOU COULD HAVE FOR OUR 80 MILLION DOLLAR PAYROLL AND COULD WIN IT ALL!!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 06:30 PM | Link to this

Lew, you make an excellent point. The Cardinals team that won the WS was not better than this team is right now. The Braves have better pitching (both starting and bullpen). The Braves lineup, even without LaRoche, is infinitely better top to bottom. Now, I don’t necessarily think this is a WS roster either offensively speaking. I think the team could be better. It is definitely good enough to win the east. With that being said though you never know what can happen. Who would have thought the Cardinals going into the postseason in October had a shot in hell of winning the WS. Of the 8 teams they were last on the list.

By TheEasternJungleBunny

January 19, 2007 06:41 PM | Link to this

Sure hope this new bullpen can rake!…

By PJ

January 19, 2007 06:59 PM | Link to this

I just found this from an article on MLB.com

*When the Braves won the World Series in 1995, they had a team that ranked 13th in the National League in batting average and first in ERA. Schuerholz’s offseason focus has been on building a pitching staff, similar to the ones that helped the Braves win a record 14 consecutive division titles. * -Mark Bowman

It just goes to show you that pitching can go a long way. Our offense is still plenty capable of producing runs and if our starters can consistently pitch six or seven innings, then I think we will be just fine. I also agree with the fact that our roster is balanced, and that can be huge for a team. The Braves have the potential to do very well in 2007.

By Bryan

January 19, 2007 07:32 PM | Link to this

(http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070118&contentid=1781887&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl)

this is a pretty telling article about A Jones and how he would probably stay in Atl for 16 + for eight years… i can’t believe Andrew was this open and candid…

Dave, any word from C. Wilson on what he was told regarding his playing time? He was pretty p** last year off the bench if i remember correctly.

By Canadian Brave

January 19, 2007 07:35 PM | Link to this

Who’s going to steal the bases? Can any of these pitchers feel confident with the infield defenders the Braves will put out there. This is still the national league and alot of games are still won with small ball.

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 07:42 PM | Link to this

I was talking to some of the cats at philly.com forum and they are saying that we are gonna be a lot toughter to beat that most people think, especially if we get good years from HamDawg (Hampton) and Hudson, I think our season rides on them if either of them pulls a Rick Vanghn on us we aren’t going anywhere

If Hampton and Hudson come out smokin then we have the potential of having the best 1-2-3 starters in da bigs

Also we can’t afford to come out flat early and play the catch up game during the stretch, Our division is gonna be to tough 4 dat, we need to start out like we did in 1982, or 1994…

“Check The Rhyme”…

D.O.B. after Rox Mexico’s incident in Fort Liquordale, how much of smoking do you think takes place in the bigs? or do I need to leave that question on biographies from David Wells?

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 08:03 PM | Link to this

“Canadian Brave” We seriously need a leadoff hitter, because in close games spped makes the difference…And we have none of that…Close games are gonna p… me off because this team is too one dimensional, We can’t rely on the 3-run homers, we need some guys who can establish that A-B-C offense that Don Sutton Speaks about (Gawd I miss Him Already!)

A-B-C offense, Get him on, Get Him over, Get him in, as Don Sutton used to say

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 08:27 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin and Canadian, I couldn’t agree more but we are in a minority on this blog. I think the lineup needs speed as well. I think we need someone who can get on base and steal some bases. That is why I’m mystifed that Blanco will receive no real consideration in the spring. That makes no sense to me. Hell, it is borderline asinine. Everyone says Kelly Johnson and Wily Aybar are fast and can steal bases but neither one of them have. Francoeur is fast but a terrible base stealer. I just really don’t get that.

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 08:32 PM | Link to this

In 1995, The Braves were second to last in the Majors with a .250 average. The Cards and Tigers were last with .247.
The Braves where 21st out of 28 in Runs scored.
24th in OBP
14th in SLG.
The Indians were first in every one of those.

Conversly, the Braves were at the top of nearly every pitching stat.
Good pitching beats good hitting. I think this team has enough to be WS caliber. I’m not too worried about it. They must get there, and they are balanced enough to do that. They must win in the short series. Now they have the pen to do that. The key will be health. If the core players are healthy, we’ll kick everyone’s arse! 162-0 regular season and 11-0 in October. =)

GO BRAVES

By MBATL

January 19, 2007 08:34 PM | Link to this

KC, who knows, on Andruw. Pretty good lineup, though, isn’t it?

By TEDDY JACK EDDY

January 19, 2007 08:36 PM | Link to this

How many saves did last years pen blow? Compare it to the in the bank years with Smoltz as closer.Say we only blow four last season if we miss the playoffs it’s not by much.Ask Joe Torre the value of a pen that can turn lights out after seven, along with clutch contact hitters that was key to dominance in the championship years for his skankees. Health may be a concern with Gonzalez and Soriano, in fact health is a concern all over the pitching staff.But even with the questions and the loss of a good fielder and power hitter the odds of the bravos playing in october are better today than before this deal, and Lillifield may prove once again the judgement of braves management in recognizing value. Also not to be underestimated from a fans’ view, things have just become more interesting in Bravesville.

By Reality Check

January 19, 2007 08:44 PM | Link to this

Lew might just take the cake from KC as the most starry-eyed, pie-in-the-sky Braves fan of all.

JS is like the little Dutch boy, plugging up one hole and creating two or three others by increasing pressure at those points.

Do the math, Lew!

Great bullpen - weakened offense + weakened defense + aging, creaky, questionmark-filled starting staff + chronic lack of speed and leadoff hitter + substandard bench + lack of a budget to do anything about all these problems = another season of mediocrity.

Wish I had a dollar for every “if” I’m reading on this blog. I’d have enough to donate to JS to keep Andruw.

By parks

January 19, 2007 08:44 PM | Link to this

TenneseePaul, as much as you may disagree, Davies is still a little unproven.

I think 161-1 with Davies record 29-1

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 19, 2007 08:51 PM | Link to this

Some are acting as if this offense is anemic like the A’s or Royals. It is not even close. This offense still has Chipper, Andruw, Frenchy, McCann, and Renteria. The Braves may not have the #1 offense but I guarantee it will be in the top five.

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 08:57 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin. I think this team has the ABC in it. KJ was good at gettin on. Renteria is exceptional at gettin ‘em over. And Chipper and Andruw are great at gettin em in. That is all followed by McCann who is great at all those roles. Francoeur is good at moving and shaking. Thor appears to be a capable guy as well at getting them over. Langerhans is good at defense. It’s all good =).

This season needs to get on a roll soon! They aren’t pumping out enough baseball articles to keep me busy right now.

By parks

January 19, 2007 08:58 PM | Link to this

that is correct Robert. if people would just compare our lineup to the rest of the NL, we are in good shape. Our entire offense did not rely on Roach and Giles

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 09:00 PM | Link to this

“Everyone says Kelly Johnson and Wily Aybar are fast and can steal bases but neither one of them have.”

Amen Robert…I only see KJ stealing no more than 15 bases…He doesn’t seem like a basestealer to me…Bring Back Neon Deion Please!

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 09:11 PM | Link to this

Tenn Paul, Lineup sounds good, lets hope we can establish an efficient offense early…I remember in 2001 our offense didn’t click til june, that was one of the most frustrating offenses that I’ve remembered…

I think its goin B Onnn Like Donkey Kong!

I see our team as being a suprise team, because I know ESPN and everyone is already counting us out. They’re too busy riding dat Mutts Bandwagon

“We On Da Grind in Georgia” DTP

By Akennas

January 19, 2007 09:15 PM | Link to this

I just read the blog from beginning to end. Amazing how the tone moderated when Craig Wilson was signed.

My personal opinion is this will be a world-killer, WS-caliber team. Put this roster in BC’s hands, and it will be back to normal in the NL East - 1st place. The difference will be the results in the playoffs: Having fresher starters and a lights-out bullpen will carry the Bravos far. This may be JS’s best work ever.

Out-on-a-limb prognostication: the big surprise will be Kelly Johnson, whose batting lead-off will make everyone forget Marcus “Uppercut” Giles and perhaps remind some of someone who was way too briefly a Brave - Brett Butler.

Biggest question mark: Is Mike Hampton really back?

And finally, I wondered this, too: Why is Pete Orr never even mentioned anymore? I was really impressed with him last year.

By Robert

January 19, 2007 09:18 PM | Link to this

“http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9939587”

Ron Roberts, nice try with the preseaon Cox apology portarying this team as hopeless, but

For what it’s worth, cbs sportsline rates Atlanta the second most improved team over the winter

They now have a potent offense, an above starting staff and a great bullpen (this seems to be the prevailing opinion)

Surely this team will be a major WS contender and if they dont make it deep into the playoffs, appropriate folks will be held accountable

By TEDDY JACK EDDY

January 19, 2007 09:21 PM | Link to this

I don’t know what started the talk about hitters and the value of patience and how to rate strike outs.I’ll say this the best hitting teams I’ve ever seen were the skankees in the late 90s,they were both aggessive and patient.Just by the numbers I look at ops that is the most complete stat on a hitters value,give me a lineup that averages .950 ops and you can take any other measure I’ll like my chances.

By Robert

January 19, 2007 09:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun - all of a sudden “Salty hasn’t been all that good.” ?

Dude, it wasnt that long agon that you were telling us how any team would be crazy not trade their best and cheapest big league level talent for Salty

What changed?

By Mitchie-san

January 19, 2007 09:31 PM | Link to this

Well I am back from Atl and back in Japan. I had a great time and am very content with the current moves. LaRoche will be missed, but not as much as everyone thinks. Gonzo is a stud, plain and simple. Throw in Soriano and Wickman and a few things are gonna happen. SAVES will happen for one. Plus, the starters can relax a little and dont have to think about pitching deep into games to get a win.

By The Grinch

January 19, 2007 09:34 PM | Link to this

The Braves will win the East. Despite a couple of flaws (and what team doesn’t have them?), they should go pretty deep into the post-season. An experienced leadoff man would be nice, but not neccessary.

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 09:39 PM | Link to this

Akennas U were impressed wit Pete Orr How many games did U watch…OMG that guy can’t hit a lick…He should be in AAA

Aight I’m out, Bout to go get on dat Drank, and hit up Da Boom Boom Room…

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 09:43 PM | Link to this

Grinch, without a leadoff man I’m gonna be p** if we lose a lot of 3-2 games where we can’t manufacture a run…Can’t always rely on the longball, thats what killed us in 2003 postseason when Wood and Prior killed all that…

By Robert

January 19, 2007 09:46 PM | Link to this

Thanks Grinch. I think this team has the player talent to go deep into the playoffs

Craig Wilson isnt part of that talent, but hey, every team makes some mistakes

Heads should roll if this team flounders

By N8

January 19, 2007 09:47 PM | Link to this

PJ

I couldn’t agree MORE with you 6:59 post. Nice find on the “article”.

I’ll take your “find” one step farther, just for the people crying we can’t win without a leadoff hitter.

Marquis Grissom’s 1995 (WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONSHIP) season stats in the leadoff roll. Now keep in mind that was the “strike shortened” season. Only 144 games. So I’ve taken the liberty to give you the stats and then calculate them to a FULL 162 game season. Here they are:

.258 Batting average, 12 HR’s, 42 RBI, 29 SB (he was caught 9 times), in 551 AB’s

Now projected to 162 games:

.258 Batting average, 14 HR’s, 47 RBI, 32 SB

Now to flip that around. Here are Kelly Johnson’s stats from the 2005 season in ONLY 87 games played:

.241 Batting average, 9 HR’s, 40 RBI, 2 SB’s, (caught 1 time)

Now projected over 162 games:

.241 Batting average, 16 HR’s, 74 RBI, and 3 SB’s.

OBVIOUSLY he lacks the speed/stolen bases that Grissom brought to the table. But he CLEARLY is capable of putting up better numbers than Grissom was from a power/gap hitter, RBI guy in the leadoff roll.

I’m not that conserned about him. Not to mention that he started that season (his ROOKIE SEASON), with an 0 for 30 streak (or close to it)? You take that out and from the game he got his first hit (and probably stopped pressing), he hit about .270.

Make no mistake. The 1995 team won with a mediocre leadoff hitter (Grissom had many intanbibles not to mention he was MONEY in the post-season - just thought I’d mention that so you don’t think I’m accusing Grissom of being mediocre, but as a leadoff hitter, he was), and WORSE overall defense than this team has.

Not saying we WILL, just saying we can win it all, with some good health and a little luck. After all……IT’S JUST A CRAPSHOOT!

By Braves fan 202

January 19, 2007 09:57 PM | Link to this

We didnt have a leadoff man last year and we scored the second most runs in the NL, it is because of home run hitters that dont just hit homers(francouer, chipper, andruw). Brian McCan is the best hitting catcher in the majors, so we can manufacture runs with a series of a few hits, because our guys hit for average. so if we get up by a run as long as a our starters go into the ninth we will be set.

By Beachcomber

January 19, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Forgive me, this is way off the subject but is there anyone on this blog that may have any contact information for Terry Cashman - the Talkin’ Baseball singer. I won’t bore you with why, but I’d really like to get in touch with him. Many thanks.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 19, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

mike is right! “p” player pete orr is no longer on the depth chart. what does this mean for “p” players? pena, jr does not appear. pratt is long gone. now, canadians …the team is down to one canadian and it appears that canadian will play first base full-time. can the team win with a canadian first baseman? and check out wilson’s photo on the braves site. carolina lady apparently had wilson cleaned up in time for the photo.

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

N8 I hope everythang falls out like dat…Ok Time to go bump da jamz…Its party time homes…C-YA…

By Tomahawkin

January 19, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Dude I’m gonna miss Todd Pratt, I hate he went out the way he did…That dude calls a good game…

By The Grinch

January 19, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Robert, you wish heads would roll. :-) But yeah, I agree they’re better than the vast majority of these fair-weather folks on here realize or choose to admit. Wilson will be good for entertainment purposes and a couple of monster pinch-hit shots, but it won’t matter if he only hits .250 ‘cause this team is good enough regardless. Thorman won’t need any help; he may struggle a bit early on but he’ll settle into a groove when it matters, and better in ‘08. The bullpen is gonna help us get the most out of these starters. That’s one of the big things that happened with the Mets last year, and their starters don’t have that much to give. Ours do, with even a little help, and now they’ve got a bunch. Tell me there’s not a difference in a starter’s approach knowing he’s got Gonzales, Soriano and Wicky behind him as opposed to Remmy, Reitsma and Sosa. Raise you’re hand if that last sentence didn’t just about make you spill your drink thinking about it. I’ll be here through the season, y’all can call me out if it doesn’t work this way but I see this team doing very good things…

T’hawk, say hey to the sorrostitutes for me, dawg. :-)

By N8

January 19, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Robert you know I appreciate your baseball mind. But clearly, having a guy like Craig Wilson filling the righthanded half of the pinch hitting duties, not to mention his “versitility” at many positions (didn’t say he was GOOD at all of them), but he can play many, can’t be thought of as any worse of a MOVE than having a guy like Todd Pratt or Pete Orr on the 25 man roster for 162 games, can it? I mean, just by showing up, he’ll put up better numbers than those two did, as a bench player. Not to mention that Brayan Pena offers more with his bat than EITHER Pratt or Orr. So the way I look at it, our bench (even with Craig Wilson) is already BETTER than last year’s.

I have less of a problem with us signing Wilson, than I do of us signing him for TWO MILLION DOLLARS. Kind of shows you what they thought of Marcus Giles ability to “bounce back” doesn’t it, or Daryl Ward, doesn’t it? Not sure that I’d rather not have Ward over Wilson. But hey! ANYTHING that keeps Bobby from carrying the THIRD catcher in the post-season! LOL! If nothing else, wilson is a 3rd Cathcer that has some “pop” off the bench.

Just my $.02

L8R

By N8

January 19, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Grinch

“Tell me there’s not a difference in a starter’s approach knowing he’s got Gonzales, Soriano and Wicky behind him as opposed to Remmy, Reitsma and Sosa. Raise you’re hand if that last sentence didn’t just about make you spill your drink thinking about it. I’ll be here through the season…”

Can I put BOTH of my hands down now? LOL!

100 PERCENT agree with that statement and the one about the Mets starters. I mean come on! I have been president of the Tim Hudson fan club, but if Steve Traschel (sp?) can win 15 games with a 4.97 ERA, than how many can Hudson win with a GREATLY IMPROVED bullpen and some run support? 20, 22, 25? Same for Smoltz. Hell, with this bullpen and some run support, Hampton may win 20 games if he can get into the 6th inning with a lead that often.

People need to understand: THIS BULLPEN MAKES OUR ROTATION BETTER TOO! They don’t have to pitch as long, and they don’t have to pitch every inning like it’s the 9th inning of the 7th game of the world series (with the weight of the world on their shoulders). I mean SERIOUSLY! In the 6th inning, Smoltz can GAS IT UP if he needs to for the “get out of a jam” strikeout, knowing that if he’s spent after that inning, he doesn’t need to worry about it. Instead of “holding back” so he has stamina in the 8th and 9th inning, because Bobby doesn’t trust the bullpen, and he NEEDS to go that far. It’s THAT SIMPLE to me. Now of course, this bullpen isn’t going to help the likes of Tim Hudson when he gives up 4 runs in the 1st inning.

By ssiscribe

January 19, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

“By rammerjammer

January 19, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

Well, there you go then. Let’s load up the bus and head to Florida, boys. We got some scores to settle.”

‘Nuff said, Rammer. I’m packing my suitcase now.

Hate losing LaRoche; great guy, huge upside. Wish him well in Pittsburgh. But with an older rotation, so important to save innings and cut games down to six innings.

To me, here’s the key: Keep Chipper healthy. If we lose him for an extended period of time, as we have for the past two seasons, we could struggle. Otherwise, I think this team has a very … good … shot … at … contending … for … the … pennant.

That would be a nice way to spend my first full year back in the ATL, cheering on the boys to the World Series.

DOB, had the pleasure of hearing one of your esteemed colleagues, Jim Wooten, speak yesterday about blogging at the state press association. Bro, they should’ve had you there, too; this blog is the best one out there, bar none. BBQ and rock-n-roll and the hometown nine and toe journalism … heck, what else is there in life?

Gotta be outta town the day of FanFest for a speaking engagement. But I imagine folks will be fired up roaming Turner Field in 15 days, and pitchers and catchers will be reporting before you know it. It won’t be long now:

Well, beat the drum and hold the phone - the sun came out today!

We’re born again, there’s new grass on the field.

A-roundin’ third, and headed for home, it’s a brown-eyed handsome man;

Anyone can understand the way I feel.

Oh, put me in, Coach - I’m ready to play today;

Put me in, Coach - I’m ready to play today;

Look at me, I can be Centerfield.

—30—

By Robert

January 19, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

If it IS a crapshoot, then having Cox in our dugout means we loaded the dice against ourselves

By leviinalaska

January 19, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

I hope that Wilson sees plenty of action in LF. Remember that even if he isn’t great defensively that AJ (arguably the best defensive centerfielder ever) will be roaming around out there next to him. I like Langerhans, but he isn’t much with the stick, and it almost seems a waste to play him next to AJ.

I’d like to see us trade Diaz to an AL team for whatever we can get, and keep Langerhans as our 4th outfielder. If AJ walks (and I hope he doesn’t) at the end of the year, Langerhans will play CF just fine, and we can go look for a big bat to play LF.

Diaz seems like a good kid, and a fairly cheap one, but I don’t think he’ll ever do much with his glove, and I’d bet he’s be a great fit for an AL team looking for a DH who can rake line drives.

What do you all think?

By KC

January 19, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: You could make a “hope” list like that for any team in the NL, without exception. All of the team in the league have question marks. The Braves have fewer than most at this point.

By Lew

January 19, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Reality Check-Yeah, Dude, you must be right. We have a great bullpen and nothing else that resembles a major league team. God, Smoltz is what, 40 now? He might just fall apart over the winter from his #2 strikeout ranking in the NL and top five innings pitched performance of last year. If he had this current bullpen, he would have had another 6 wins, a 20 win season and the NL Cy Young Award, but he just didn’t have anything left for 07, despite the fact that he now only has to pitch 6 or 7 innings instead of 8 or 9. Hudson only was able to go into the 6th last year before falling apart, but he should be much worse now that he has a bullpen behind him. You’re absolutely correct, Hampton may struggle and not be able to go deep for a while. Too bad we have no one to back him up now. You’re right. We no longer have LaRoche-the man no one wanted for the first 5 months of the season. The man who was ridiculed on a daily basis for his style of play. The man that now we will never survive without. You’re absolutely correct. We have no offense without him. Andruw will never hit 40+ HR again or come close to knocking in 125 runs. McCann will never again hit .300 and hit 25 HR. Last year was a fluke. Chipper will only play 100 games, no doubt only hitting another 26 HR. But no one will be on base, because we don’t have a leadoff man. We no longer have defense, because the guy who made the error heard round the world (or at least around Atlanta) is gone. Thorman will drop every ball hit in his direction and never catch a short hop. You know this because you saw his one ML error. Yes, Reality Check, you’re absolutely right. The Braves suck and may lose all 162 games this year. Dude, you’re the one truly in need of a reality check. Not me.

By The Grinch

January 19, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

That’s one thing I gotta disagree with you about Nate, at least in my memory. Hudson as I recall was usually pretty danged good for 5 innings; it was the sixth that often did him in (and when it didn’t he would often pitch seven strong). Well, yeah, now that I think about it, he did get lit up early some too. But you kind of knew if he was gonna suck that night or not pretty quick (and having three 5th starters helps when someone sucks early, too). Hampton’s gonna be fine when he shakes the rust off; he’s the one I’m worried about least after Smoltz. It’s been so long since we’ve watched him it seems like most of y’all have forgotten how good he really is. Not so much his stuff, either, but his fire and grit. With competitors like Smoltz and Hampton at the top of the rotation, I expect it to shame anyone else not giving their all (and DOB reported Huddy’s working awful hard in the off-season). I see some reverse luck/karma going on this season. Last year we had three seasons worth of consistant bad luck. The pendulum always swings, and this season we’ll have the talent to reap its full potential. I feel a great vibe, and it’s not just the vodka. :-)

By Mitchie-san

January 19, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

N8, Your 10:40 post was brilliant.

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

Parks: I can live with that I suppose.

By KC

January 19, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this

Robert: You are absolutely right about the offense. This was the best offense in the NL last year. We have lost Marcus Giles, but given that lousy season he had in 06’, the Braves won’t be losing much of anything from last year to this year at 2B.

We also lost Adam LaRoche. That is a big bat to lose, but it won’t affect the middle of the lineup (since LaRoche didn’t hit there), and ultimately… we’ll probably lose 5-10 homers and 20 or so RBI.

I’m not trying to minimize the value a guy like LaRoche brings to a lineup, but losing 5-10 homers and 20 RBI is not going to take this team from best to worst offensively. We may not be the best offensive team in the NL again this year, but you can bet that we’ll still finish in the top 3 or 4 in the league in runs scored. There’s still plenty of offense here folks.

The Braves starting rotation will be above average, the best in the league, or somewhere in between. That all depends on Hudson and Hampton. But if you put even a mediocre rotation together with a lights out bullpen and an excellent offense… you can win 90-100 games. Just ask the 06’ Mets.

By Bruce

January 19, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

Comparing our depth chart since earlier today before LaRoche deal finalized… KJ is at second instead of LF for first time too… And Oscar moved from starter #6 to bullpen….

By Reality Check

January 19, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

Note to self: If you want to rain on Lew’s parade, bring a pacifier or an extra thumb to stick in the big baby’s mouth. Poor Lew.

By KC

January 19, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

LEW: You really think the Braves have a chance to be good??? Come on man… don’t be such an idiot. Look, with the questions surrounding Hudson and Hampton, there’s no way anyone should get excited about this team. I mean let’s say that Hudson and Hampton both fall flat… what are you left with? A slightly above average rotation at best.

We all know that you can’t win like that. Come on Lew, you senile old fart! You can’t really believe this team will be good!! An excellent offense and a lights out bullpen isn’t enough to win. Just ask the 06’ Mets! Oh… wait a minute…

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

I think Langerhans will stick around. He could turn up the stick this season. maybe last year was his sophomore slump. He had a pretty good bat in the minors. Nothing eye popping, but it wasn’t terrible. And that defense… that’s the thing. If they trade anyone it’d be Diaz, I’d imagine they keep Langerhans just for the defense.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

I tend to conjure these images of what some of the regulars here might look like, where they’re blogging from, etc (hey, just being honest), and I gotta tell you, I smile over this image I have of T-Hawkin’ in some dorm or apartment at G-Tech (that is where you said you matriculate, right?), getting ready to go out partying _ or “to get his drank on” _ and it makes me smile.

Dude seems cool and spirited. Youth’s not always wasted on the young. That’s a good thing.

Stay silly while you can, my man. Peace.

By KC

January 19, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

GRINCH: As you know, I have given great thought to what went wrong with Huddy in 06’ (lol) and I think there is reason for optimism… surprised?

Seriously, Hudson was out of sync mechanically last year. That might sound oversimplified to many, but that’s really the extent of it. Those mechanical issues probably started messing with his head after a while as well. I think the best medicine for that is 4-5 months away from the game. That’s what the winter is for. He’ll be fine. I’m not saying he’ll revert to CY Young form this year (thought it wouldn’t surprise me)… but he’ll be fine.

Having Hampton back, and a bullpen that’s capable of turning any game into a 5 or 6 inning affair, will certainly take pressure off of Hudson. I’ll just be really, really surprised if you don’t wind up owing me a Skip-&-Pete’s BBQ sandwich, and cold beverage! You’ll rue the day you wagered beer and BBQ on Hudson’s underperformance, my friend!

By Reality Check

January 19, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

I think T-Hawkin’ is the second coming of that David Spade character on “Just Shoot Me!” Which isn’t an insult; I like that show and that little blonde dude’s enthusiasm.

By The Stranger

January 19, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

So, Gonzales must be a pretty big James McMurtry fan.

Speaking of the Lone Star, Mr. McMurtry playing Austin City Limits tonight.

Texas: thanks for all the great Braves players and musicians you’ve sent us over the years; y’all can keep your BBQ & civil servants.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

Oh, and by the way, I’m as much a realist and skeptic as just about anyone, and obviously not the passionate Braves “fan” that most of you are, because it’s my job and I shouldn’t and couldn’t be.

That said, those of you who are so down on this team and questioning everything about it, you folks need to take a step back, look at moves other teams made this winter, consider the payroll and the pitching staff the Braves have constructed, etc. And you’re seriously going to say you’re disappointed?

I just don’t see that. I didn’t think they should’ve traded LaRoche, but am also open-minded enough to know the deal could end up being very good for the Braves in the next few years, when Gonzalez is closing and Lillibridge is playing SS or 2B. But in the meantime, the Braves are going to have one of the best bullpens in the majors, and arguably the best in the NL. And as has been noted, as much as I like LaRoche’s great defense and prodigious 425-foot (and longer) bombs, he wasn’t a great clutch hitter, not the kind whose absence is going to cripple an offense. Again, I think he’s going to have a great career, probably the type of season he had last year repeated many times, some years a little better, some years worse.

But if the Braves get 25-30 homers and 80-90 RBIs out of 1B, which I really think they can, then it’s not that much of a dropoff. The defense, that’s going to hurt more than Braves officials are stating, I think. But again, probably not enough to actually cost the Braves more than a game or three over the course of the year.

I think if Kelly Johnson can play a decent 2B, and Hampton can win 12-15 games and Smoltz just stay healthy, the rest of the questions aren’t the kind of thing that will keep the Braves from contention.

That’s the beauty of this formidable bullpen _ it cures a lot of ills, such as preventing a Wickman injury from being a killing blow, and allowing the starters to be used more cautiously and judiciously, and giving the Braves some confidence and swagger they lacked last season because they’ll know they’ve got some serious studs ready to shut down folks with overpowering stuff in the seventh and eighth innings before Wickman does his thing.

Also, expect Gonzalez to get plenty of save opps, too. I just have a feeling, one way or another, he will. And that’d be a good thing, because there’s no reason to overtax Wickman.

Anyway, that’s my rambling way of saying, I’m impressed and believe this team is far more balanced and with fewer questions than last season.

By Mitchie-san

January 19, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this

Oh, DOB. Now everyone is goiung to wonder what you think they look like… Get ready.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

Bruce, you realize that “depth chart” isn’t actually put out by the team or anything, right?

I mean, that’s not coming from Cox, Schuerholz or anyone else in the organization. It’s just an assessment, that’s all. Probably fairly accurate, or close, but just logical reasoning or guessing at this point.

I mean, if someone was seriously updating the thing all winter, Kelly would’ve been at 2B two months ago, when it became clear the Braves were planning to try him there and working him there this winter.

Until we get to spring training and Bobby starts giving us better ideas of what he’s leaning toward, who he’s playing where during spring games, etc, we won’t really know.

All I’m saying is, don’t stress one way or another on the depth chart at this point.

By KC

January 19, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

DOB: Did you happen to notice my point earlier about the value of having Wilson as a 3rd catcher? It’s not a big thing, but could mean the difference in a game or two this season if it allows McCann to pinch hit in key situations on his days off.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

Stranger, yes indeed. Damn, didn’t know McMurtry was on Austin City LImits tonight. Do they replay that later?

The list of musical talent from that state is staggering (and so is the one from Georgia, by the way, though not all the singer-songwriter types as the Lone Star State).

Gonna see a great one from Canada tomorrow night _ Ron Sexsmith at Smith’s Olde Bar. Great, great new album out.

By TLJ

January 20, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I agree with you post of 11:44. I was upset when the deal was announced because I thought we should have gotten more. After thinking about it I really like the deal and think the Braves will do well this year and will contend for the east division title.

I also saw AJ comments about wanting to stay. I hope this can be worked out. I’m getting real excited about the upcoming season. Thanks for all of the info.

Go Braves

By KC

January 20, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

Okay… we know all about this bullpen now. The pressing question is: what do we call them? Cinci had the “Nasty Boys”… what do we call these guys??

By AdirondackDave

January 20, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

LEW — I really enjoy your stuff. Could you break up your comments into small paragraphs? Would be easier for this old geezer to read if you did 2 or 3 sentences to a paragraph. Thanks.

I think this has been a fine week for the team and Braves fans. First, the Gonzalez deal is completed and JS gets an exceptional 5-tool shortstop prospect as a bonus.

Then we get Wilson who gives us more punch, can back-up Thorman if he struggles, play some outfield, and pinch-hit. Also, emergency catcher. Seems like a very useful guy to me.

Perhaps most importantly, Andruw says today in Bowman’s article on the Braves website that he wants to stay a Brave forever (which DOB has already told us). Equally important, he needs a contract worth his skills, not one that has to be the highest in baseball that would break the bank. Odds may have moved up to 50-50 that JS will find a way to get this done.

Darn good week in my book.

By KC

January 20, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

This isn’t on subject with anything we’ve been talking about here, but if anyone’s interested to see team salaries for each year, dating back as far as 1988, here’s a link:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=1991

Kansas City led all of MLB in team salary in 1990, and Oakland spent the most in 1991. Those were the days. Parity? What’s that? I can’t remember any more.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

Stranger, Austin City Limits is on but it’s pretty-boy James Blunt. Did I already miss McMurty, or is he next?

By H. Hatchett

January 20, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

I’m still wondering why the Braves think that Kelly Johnson is THE guy. That is still the only thing that troubles me about this lineup. It’s just that it would be nice to have a more proven player taking over at a key position (for turning DPs, cutting off throws into the infield, etc.), particularly someone who has played the position before. And why he is pretty much the favorite right now to be the leadoff man, is equally difficult to understand. I have nothing against Johnson, he could be a great player, but Pete Orr has much more experience; but Orr shouldn’t be the guy either.

In short, they still need to have some one who can get on base before Renteria and the Jones’s or this offense, who has already lost 30 homers and 90 RBIs this offseason, could be in for a long season.

By Reality Check

January 20, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

So if the Braves are as improved by the deal as you say, DOB, why are you down on the LaRoche trade?

I’m far from disappointed, and I’m sure JS is doing his best, and his best has been good enough many times before. I just don’t think all the weaknesses that plagued this team in ‘06 have nearly been addressed.

Are they better? Could be. But a lot of big “ifs” must pan out before that’s so. But I can’t bring myself to assume on blind faith that every single “if” will become a plus, like many fans here who obviously think with their hearts rather than their heads.

By The Grinch

January 20, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

Oh, lord, KC; you’re right. JS saved your bacon (or BBQ) with these moves and you know it. Oh, well; like I said, it’s a bet I don’t mind losing (even if it seems somewhat tainted now). We should both just buy JS a sandwich (though I imagine he can afford his own).

Dave, I bet all our ideas about what others look like are completely and shockingly wrong. Stinky could look like Fabio and Lew like Scarlett Johansson. You never know. :-)

By The Stranger

January 20, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

I’m on the west coast, so Austin hasn’t aired yet. McMurtry must have the last set. When I saw the guide I just assumed McMurtry would be holding a blunt.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this

Stranger, I knew this was a good Friday night to stay home _ McMurtry on Austin City Limits! Huge thanks for the heads-up, man….

Grinch, I can only hope and pray Lew looks like Scarlett Johansson, since he’s coming down to spring training.

By The Stranger

January 20, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

For a very long time now I’ve pictured all of the full-time citizen journalists on The Braves/Man in Black blog as characters in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.

Of course, David O’Brien is played by a young Jack Nicholson,, and The Grinch plays Martini to perfection.

By N8

January 20, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

KC

“Okay… we know all about this bullpen now. The pressing question is: what do we call them? Cinci had the “Nasty Boys”… what do we call these guys??”

My vote is for:

“The ANTI-Kolb’s”

“The cure for the common Kolb”

or as many great bands have been known as:

POWER TRIO

DOB - Mitchie-San was right. You gotta go through the list of “regulars” and give it your best shot.

The odd thing is this. Today when I listened to the conference call with JS and heard your voice asking questions, I realized I hadn’t heard you speak before and it seemed kinda “odd” to say the least. Not sure what I expected your voice to sound like, but that wasn’t it. LOL! You gotta clue us in on any spots on the web that there might be a photo of you. But then again that might be like seeing the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz. Some things are just better left to imagination.

Though if I knew what you looked like and saw you at the park, (probably have to be Milwaukee, Denver or Minnesota), I’d introduce myself to you, in a NON-STALKER kind of way.

By The Grinch

January 20, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

H. Hatchett, your line of thinking (which is like an awful lot of people here) confuses me. Yes, we’re losing LaRoche’s 30/90. However, does that mean we won’t be feilding a 1st baseman this year? Thorman and Wilson are going to hit 0 and 0? Something tells me even if Thor tries too hard or plays scared and Wilson has trouble swinging over his beer-gut, they’ll still combine for 20/75. So, we’re losing a net of 10/15 (worst case, we may lose less or none at all) which will likely be more than offset by the improved pitching. Anyone that can’t improve on Giles’ last season numbers at 2B needs to be sent back down. No worries.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

Stranger, it’s an awesome set. Second song is Choctaw Bingo in FULL, complete with the dirty line about the nieces. Now he’s playing Can’t Make It Here Anymore from Childish Things. Strong stuff, man. You’ll love it (but skip the Blunt _ the James Blunt).

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

“The cure for the common Kolb” Absolutly histerical. I love it.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

They just asked McMurtry why he started writing songs and he answered, “So women would talk to me. Why does anybody write anything?”

Hey, I can think of worse reasons.

Young Jack in Cuckoo’s Nest, huh? Well, I’ve got the hairline for it. Or I should say, the power alleys.

You know, the boss (my boss, not Springsteed) proposed doing a photo of me for this thing, but he wanted me to wear black. That’d be a bit much, I’m afraid. So far I’ve successfully avoided the topic coming up again….

I like that man-behind-the-curtain point that you made, Nate. Way too many dudes (or should I say, too few non-dudes) on here to make putting my mugshot on here worthwhile. Only bad things could come of it.

By N8

January 20, 2007 01:01 AM | Link to this

Grinch your last post (12:41), is DEAD ON!

As I’ve said ALL WEEK (and since the beginning of the LaRoche rumors), his defense will be missed MORE than the offense. You are right about Thorman/Wilson. You are right that we should improve on Gile’s 06 numbers, and that’s not even beginning to factor in McCann and Francoeur improving with a full season each under their belt. I’m not gonna jynx Chipper by saying that if we’re lucky and he stays healthy HE ALONE will make up the difference of LaRoche departing….OOOPS! I guess I already did.

Time to watch a movie…..the FAM is finally all in bed……THE HOUSE IS ALL MINE! LOL!

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 01:01 AM | Link to this

By the way, Nate, what were you doing on the conference call? They need better security on those things, obviously.

By The Grinch

January 20, 2007 01:03 AM | Link to this

Shaken, not stirred, Stranger. With three olives. Though not quite as skinny. Damn, wish I was drinking a better quality vodka; I’m in the mood to switch over now. Of course, changing cars at mid-race is rarely a good thing.

Dave, you better hope Lew doesn’t look like Scarlett; that could make things mighty awkward at ST. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…:-)

By The Stranger

January 20, 2007 01:12 AM | Link to this

“…twisted sisters…”

That song — in its entirety — is an American anthem.

By mr baseball

January 20, 2007 01:19 AM | Link to this

Now that the GM has finally given the manager a first rate bullpen, the question is, how will he handle it? It seems that most people on this blog think Robert is something of a loon for his redundant rants about the donkey in the dugout. But those of you have watched enough Braves games over the years have to admit that handling a bullpen is not among Cox’s strengths.

If Cox sticks to his usual formula, we can expect each of the bullpen guys to have narrowly defined roles, e.g. Soriano in the 7th, Gonzalez in the 8th, Wickman in the 9th. If he follows that script, how is going to give Wickman a night off in favor of Gonzalez if Gonzalez works basically the same schedule? And in his brief career, Gonzalez does not appear to be a workhorse type, so Cox may have to improvise some nights, which he is not especially fond of.

If the first 4 starters pitch up to expectations and the offense comes close to matching last year’s production, the bullpen will have a lot of leads to protect, which means Cox will have to occasionally rely on someone other than those 3 to close games out. He’s been known to burn out his more effective relievers in the past, and if things fall into place, he might get that chance again.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that the Braves just need 6 good innings out of their starters. The reality is, 7 innings is a whole lot better, because that guarantees that 1 of the 3 gets the night off.

With Cox having to juggle players at 3 positions, he will have to do plenty of managing this season, and still has some decisions to make regarding who is going to bat leadoff. Whatever he does, Robert is sure to bray about it, although I haven’t seen a lot of specifics in his criticism.

Personally, I don’t think Cox is that astute a strategist, but with superior talent, managers don’t have to be as smart as Tony LaRussa thinks he is. All you have to do is what Cito Gaston did in Toronto in ‘92 and ‘93. Just sit back in the dugout and not screw things up. Hopefully the Braves will be good enough this season to afford Cox that luxury.

Odds are, however, they won’t.

By N8

January 20, 2007 01:27 AM | Link to this

DOB

Wasn’t “on” the conference call.

atlantabraves.com (the mlb radio section) had the downloadable audio of it on the website. Go to the mainpage and just about dead center is a “sights and sounds” section. It’s listed as Schuerholz’s conference call.

I was listening to it when you first started posting what was talked about in it.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 20, 2007 01:27 AM | Link to this

Okay, I think JS is doing what I have been advocating all winter. He is making the team good for 2007, but he is also making sure it will be good beyond. Here is what I mean.

Let’s assume Andruw will be leaving after the upcoming season. For all those who keep saying K. Johnson can hit I have no idea what you are talking about. Johnson has been known for his offense throughout the minors. Yes, he did struggle when he was first called up but once he figured it out a bit he went on a tear. This guy was tearing it up in the minors last April and May before the Braves pulled the plug and had him get the surgery. So, all Johnson has to do is prove he can be adequte at 2B and he will be a diamond in the rough.

Now, look how this team is setup for 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. I think Johnson is merely holding down 2B for this season. I think the Braves are praying he becomes the .310/20HR/80+RBI that he has been touted to be. Acquiring Lillibridge was a very key component to the LaRoche/Gonzales trade. Lillibridge will only need another year in the minors at most. He will become the 2B in 2008. If Escobar is still a Brave he will be the SS in 2008 and Renteria will be traded. If Escobar is gone, Renteria will stay until 2009 when Andrus will be ready. With Lillibridge here in 2008 it will allow Johnson to move to the outfield most likely LF.

Now, if Salty is not traded he will most certainly be ready in 2008. I believe Salty will become the 1B with Thorman moving to the outfield most likely RF. Francoeur will switch to CF.

Chipper’s contract will be up after 2008. If he doesn’t retire, he will most certainly be retained. In either case Eric Campbell, Van Pope, and Wily Aybar will all be competing for 3B in 2009. And of course McCann will still be here.

The pitching is in good shape as well. Matt Harrison will be ready in 2008, if not this season. Hampton’s contract will expire after the 2008, which will open up a spot for Harrison if no trades had been made already freeing up a spot for Harrison. It is quite possible Lerew will get his head out of his butt and he will be ready in 2008. Jo Jo Reyes will be ready for 2009…2010 at the latest. Hudson in signed through 2010.

Gonzales is the future closer and will be exactly that in 2008. He is under the Braves control through 2009. Soriano is under the Braves control through 2009 as well. The Braves also have Joey Devine, Phil Stockman, and Will Startup who will all be ready for 2008…2009 at the latest.

Just think about the current roster. McCann and Francoeur are under the Braves control through 2010. Gonzales and Soriano through 2009. Johnson through 2011. McBride through 2009. Thorman through 2011. James through 2011. Davies through 2010. Guys like Salty, Escobar, Lillibridge, Devine, Startup, Stockman, Harrison, Reyes, Blanco, and Brandon Jones will all be up by 2009.

As far as I can see, the Braves are loaded. That is why I think Dayn Perry is an idiot and was way off base with that article a few weeks ago spelling doom and gloom for the Braves. The Braves will have all these guys under contract for a long time and most of them for cheap. With Chipper’s, Hudson’s, Hampton’s, Renteria’s, likely Andruw’s contracts all being gone in 2008 and 2009 the Braves will have money freed up to lock up guys like Francoeur, McCann, James, and Gonzales and Soriano if they wish.

The Braves are in a great position now and in the future. I think Littlefield got fleeced by JS. Not only did JS get his future closer but he also got his future SS or 2B giving him a true surplus of middle infielders, which he can now trade one of them to fill another need.

I see the present and future being very bright for the Braves. I like where this team is heading even if Andruw is not on the train.

By Wayne in UT

January 20, 2007 01:30 AM | Link to this

Hatchett A couple of points on Kelly Johnson. First, I have been a KJ fan for a few years, back when he was the SS in Greenville. The book on him is that he is athletic. They moved him from the infield to the OF not because of his deficiencies, but because they wanted a way to get his bat into the lineup. A couple of years ago, he cut down on the K’s and became more selective.

If you remember, his bat was so highly thought of that BC batted him 3rd for the first few days he was up. Also, the reports are very positive about his sessions with Hubbard. So, to slide over from SS to 2B is not a hard stretch for an athletic dude.

Why leadoff? Because unless we go with Aybar, there is nobody else. Not Frenchy, or McCann or Thorman/Wilson. Certainly not the Jones boys. That leaves LF (a possibility, as another deal could happen) or Rent-a-SS. Renteria could do it, but if you take him out of the two hole, then you take one of the 5 or so best two guys and make him less of an asset in the leadoff spot. If Johnson can come up with a .350 OBP, he has enough speed to make it work. Not ideal, but workable.

I think you could take this kid and put him at 1B, 2B, 3B, or LF and stay with him for a year or so, and he will end up being a pleasant surprise.

LaRoche Lovers Adam has a great glove, a sweet swing, and a high probability to KILL a rally with one of his patented strikeouts. Not nearly enough RBI’s for 30 homers, even in our lineup. I have not checked, but I bet he has poor to average LOB numbers. I suspect he will struggle with in the cleanup spot in Pittsburgh.

Klesko….er, I mean Thor/son will lose us a few games with the glove that Adam would not, but how many games will Gonzo affect???? 40? 50? 60? That is huge.

I would love to see us be able to pick up Freel, but we would have to give up something special, as he is cheap and effective. Would you be willing to give up Salty for Freel. I don’t think Escobar and Diaz would do it. Also, they would probably take Soriano, but do you want to go there? If we KNEW Boyer and Devine would be what they potentially could be, then yes, I would deal Soriano.

DOB By the way, even though I am a sporadic contributor, I sometimes get on and just read through for an hour or so. Since I am here in Utah, it is usually when you guys are asleep or heading that direction. FYI, I am the spitting image of Tom Selleck, or at least that’s what I see in the mirror with my glasses off!

God Bless Ronald Reagan, John Schuerholz, and Bobby Cox!

By N8

January 20, 2007 01:37 AM | Link to this

Great!

Now DOB thinks I’m a HACKER and a STALKER. LOL!

mlb radio from mlb.com. is pretty much how I get ALL things Braves as far as audio/visual, when the games aren’t on TBS and ESPN refuses to show highlights.

For what it’s worth, other than the audio of the conference call being on the braves official site. YOU are ALWAYS quicker to relay info to the fans. Especially with the blog. I appreciate that. About the only thing that the official site has that you don’t is “press conference video” and transcripts and interviews. Bowman also has his “weekly mailbag”, but quite honestly most, if not ALL questions he answers, you’ve already answered days before in the blog. I used to look forward to the mailbag each monday, but now I chuckle to myself, because with the blog, I feel like part of a secret society of all things knowing. LOL! You do a great job of keeping the fans (and some of us fanatics) in “the know” before the general public does on “all things Braves”.

Thank you.

By Wayne in UT

January 20, 2007 01:45 AM | Link to this

Mr. BBall

I have always been a Bobby Cox supporter, although there are times when he makes me want to pull my ever-so-thinning hair out.

His strong point is his ability to get the utter MOST out of his players. He promotes confidence in his players abilities.

“The cure for the common kolb!” I like it!!

By Zac

January 20, 2007 01:54 AM | Link to this

The reason Dave gives us the news first is obviously due to Mark Bowman eating all of it before he can shart it onto mlb.com

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 20, 2007 02:00 AM | Link to this

This argument I keep hearing about Gonzales that he doesn’t pitch very many innings is filled with some fallacies. Yes, he didn’t throw very many innings but look he was closing for. The Pirates won 67 games last season. C’mon and be serious. You guys are basing your evidence on him only throwing 60 innings but he only had 24 save opportunities all year and he did miss the last five weeks. I think Gonzales will be fine and I predict that Wickman will get around 30 saves with Gonzales and Soriano picking up another 20 to 25.

Unless someone else is picked up (which I entirely belive could happen) the offense will not score quite as many runs but it will score enough to give the bullpen a chance to nail the game down in the late innings. Also, with this bullpen ties will be held and one and two run deficits will be kept that way giving the offense a chance to still win. Think about how many times a game went into the 7th or 8th inning tied and the bullpen gave up the lead or how many times the Braves were within a run or two and the bullpen imploded causing a one or two run deficit to turn into a five run deficit.

While the starters struggled and I think that had as much to do with the team’s problems last year, I think part of the starters struggles were due to believing they had to be perfect. These guys will now be able to start a game knowing they don’t have to be perfect nor do they have to pitch 7 and 8 innings every game. The startes know they only have to give five solid innings and can turn it over to the bullpen. But that knowledge and confidence will actually cause them to pitch better and I think we will see some better pitched games. You can’t discount the ill effects the bullpen had on the rotation last season.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 02:07 AM | Link to this

Well, just watched last night’s 30Rock. Another great show. Alec Baldwin is so very funny in that role….

Wayne, good to know there are folks reading at all hours. I miss our buddy filing from Vietnam. I think he said he’d be back about now, didn’t he? He was moving to some other exotic locale or something, going to be gone for a month. But I think that was a month ago. When he was here, we had some nights when not an hour went by without a post.

Utah, that’s your job now. Keep the blog wheels turning overnight….

Nate, didn’t know they had the conference calls or news conferences on MLB.com. That’s pretty cool. And no, wasn’t worried about you stalking….

Later.

By The Grinch

January 20, 2007 02:09 AM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball, while I agree with you about Bobby, you seem to be forgetting that there are 7 members of the bullpen and not three. The other four aren’t just going to sit on their hineys. What I mentioned earlier about the “Big Three” in the bullpen doing for the starting rotation also applies to the rest of the bullpen. You think Paranto, McBride, Yates, etc. won’t pitch better now that they’ve gone from having immense pressure on them to almost none at all? I Guaran-tee they’ll show signifigant improvement, as well. They already did last year down the stretch before these deals went down; thay’ll be way better next year. This creates a trickle-down effect Reagan wished his economic plan did.

By Jeff Childress

January 20, 2007 02:23 AM | Link to this

Dammit Man, ya’ll just caused me to miss Govt Mule on the Carson Show. Started reading the blog and completely forgot about it. I appreciate what JS has done with this team and think it will be a very exciting summer. I have always been a fan of Craig Wilson, he brings more to the team than most people realize. If you can overlook the K’s, he has a pretty good OBP and will take one for the team and do what it takes. Also heard that he has a very good clubhouse presence. I think it is possible that he and Thorman can each hit around 20 hrs though Wilson won’t get near the ab’s. I’m sure that Cox will use him more efficiently than Tracy did in Pittsburgh.

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 02:24 AM | Link to this

I wish there were more late night posts. Its only 4:30pm here in Japan. Looks like I get the late shift.

By Wayne in UT

January 20, 2007 02:24 AM | Link to this

I guess that signing Craig Wilson means that my buddies Brian Jordan and Reggie Sanders are out of the picture now.

Too bad, as they were becoming my late night blogging pals.

By Brian Jordan

January 20, 2007 02:27 AM | Link to this

Craig Wilson??? You gotta be kidding me man! That dude is one Krispy Kreme from being admitted to the Fridge Perry Home for Overeaters. Mr. Schuerholz, how could you do this to me??

By Reggie Sanders

January 20, 2007 02:31 AM | Link to this

Yep, it me, Reggie (odd years are MY years) Sanders! I guess you bloggers think that now that home boy has signed up my old Pirate buddy Craig, that there is no place for a guy like me. Let me tell you, there is ALWAYS a place for a handsome, hard hitting dude like me around a clubhouse. Besides, it IS an add year now, isn’t it. Like I said before, call your buddy Drayton and send him that Salty dude or maybe throw in one of your relief pitchers, heck you won’t need all them around when I hit town. I AM your man. Hey JS, homeboy, give me a call and let’s do lunch!

By Roger Clemens

January 20, 2007 02:36 AM | Link to this

You bloggers think Mr. Schuerholz would sign me up to be the closer? What say I come in around mid June, then we could have 6)Soriano, 7)Gonzalez, 8)Wickman, 9)The Rocket.

Hell, we could get Trey Hodges and he could win 14 games with this bullpen. Where is Trey anyway???

Sounds good to me. Has the Braves folks got 15 mil laying around?

By Trey Hodges

January 20, 2007 02:38 AM | Link to this

You guys need a 5th man? I’m your man. That steroid poppin Rocket Man can close out my games all year long!

By Wayne in UT

January 20, 2007 02:41 AM | Link to this

Mitchie It is almost 1am here in Utah. I am turning it over to you. Hey, keep my buddies Brian Jordan and Reggie Sanders company for a while, would you?

By the way, how did you come about being a Braves fan in Japan. Maybe you have told your story before, but I haven’t heard it. I like your posts.

By Ron

January 20, 2007 02:46 AM | Link to this

Some of yall keep talkin about how much of a rally killer LaRoche was, yes he killed some Rallies, but he was MONEY for the Braves in the Playoffs, have yall forgoton that GRAND SLAM in Game 4 of the NLDS in 2004 that helped the Braves win the game, or that homer he hit in the NLDS in 2005. He did a heck of alot more than some duds that we have had. I will name one Gary the Choker Sheffield. We have had alot of players choke in the playoffs, but he was money for the Braves and yall know that.

By Wayne in UT

January 20, 2007 02:49 AM | Link to this

Robert (JITB)

Sorry so late in responding to your post. I track as best as I can the Braves prospects too. Some very intriguing personnel coming up. I like Harrison and Pope. Andrus is to far down the line to start getting excited about (remember Betemit 6 years ago). Lillibridge might be closer due to his college ball. I guess what I would say is that what percentage of phenoms actually live close to their potential? 1 out of 3 or 4? Maybe less. So, I like having 2-3 guys at each position, that way maybe one of them makes it big!

By the way, what do you hear on this Francisley Bueno, the Cuban lefty defector who supposedly has a heater? He is 26, and might be on the radar screen for the 5th spot????

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 02:51 AM | Link to this

Why dont we go after Raul Mondesi to play left and lead off?

By Jeff Childress

January 20, 2007 03:01 AM | Link to this

Mitchie, what the hell you doing in Japan? Wayne, not so fast, I heard Reggie is working on a cooking show, maybe he could be the clubhouse chef, fatten some people up, then make his move in the batting cage. Brian, Falcons need a db coach. Rocket, how will you know when to fly in for the games if your the closer? Trey, ain’t it past your bedtime? DOB, feel your love for DBT. Allman Bros get my vote for best band ever.

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 03:57 AM | Link to this

I lived in florida and Atlanta for most of my life, so Obviously I would be a fan. I am now in the Navy and am stationed over here in Japan.

By N8

January 20, 2007 03:59 AM | Link to this

DOB

To my knowledge, that is the first conference call they have “posted”. Pretty cool. I WISH that I had a way to break security on that stuff. LOL!

I just happened to stumble across it today, and had it “minimized” with the audio playing, so I could read the blog at same time. Right about the time you asked your first question, you posted your questions/answers.

Most of the time that they post press conferences, they kinda suck, because you can’t hear the reporters asking the questions. Long pauses, followed by answers. Oh well. Still cool, none the less.

Good night all.

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 04:00 AM | Link to this

You covered just about everything in that post Jeff. Well done!

By Robert

January 20, 2007 07:55 AM | Link to this

“Personally, I don’t think Cox is that astute a strategist, but with superior talent, managers don’t have to be as smart as Tony LaRussa thinks he is. All you have to do is what Cito Gaston did in Toronto in ‘92 and ‘93. Just sit back in the dugout and not screw things up. Hopefully the Braves will be good enough this season to afford Cox that luxury.

Odds are, however, they won’t.”

Lord have mercy, someone gets it.

This is why a having an impressive record and winning division titles does not in and of itself define managerial greatness or even basic managerial aptitude

The only things I would say about this post are 1) that saying Cox is “not that astute a strategist” is putting it very very mildly

2) that the line should be changed to “not as smart as Tony LaRussa thinks he is or half as smart as people think LaRussa or Cox are”

3)that winning our division this year (with the Mets looking decidely weaker than in 06) wont prove that Cox has done well “juggling three positions”

Cox will be able to sitr in the dugout, chew his cud, shuffle his hooves, and pick turds out of his nose all regular season long.

The Braves will then qualify for the playoffs and be outhustled and outhustled to a quick exit with the playoffs being over for us before Cox has a clue what happened

In other words, a repeat of most every season since 91, with a few of the names and details changed to keep the masses entertained

It dont take brains to run autopilot

By Jeff Reardon

January 20, 2007 08:34 AM | Link to this

While I am in jail I have a lot of time to read and I want to comment on the trade,as a former big league closer and former Brave i agree that this bullpen is the best in the majors.wish it were that storng when i pitched there.Three closer on one team makes it real strong.This years team is gonna be stronger and much better than the Mets.Braves will win the division and the world series this year.youi watch this Lillibridge kid is gonna be great in a couple years after renteria is gone.

By Daddy Reitsma

January 20, 2007 08:42 AM | Link to this

You guys gave up on my son,but thats ok, my boy Chris is gonna get his chance with the Mariners and he is gonna be great he will get his chance.When JJ Puts goes down this year my boy will step in there and get 20 saves.eat your heart out Braves.You are gona wish you never gave up on Chris.

By Charleie A

January 20, 2007 09:07 AM | Link to this

checkout www.fantasybrova.com cool site

By Charleie A

January 20, 2007 09:44 AM | Link to this

checkout www.fantasybrova.com cool blog

By Robert

January 20, 2007 09:47 AM | Link to this

To daddy Reitsma

Dude, it’s well known that you cut your own son from his Little League team.

So nice try, but noone’s buying it

By Braves20

January 20, 2007 09:52 AM | Link to this

reading the overnight posts with folks wondering what happens when bobby’s 7-8-9 rotation comes apart. hey, there’s always charlie leibrandt.

By Head Coach

January 20, 2007 09:59 AM | Link to this

This is a bit offbeat from my usual Braves stuff , but if you have not seen Elizabethtown(2005). go spend your five bucks at blockbuster , its money well spent. You will laugh , cry and smile with delight after watching this gem of a film. By the way , I went out and bought the DVD.

By Porkins

January 20, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

DOB,

You know you want to hold a contest or something and for the winner: For a home game this season, they get to follow you around at The Ted, media pass and all, and see what it’s like to have the greatest job in the world. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve always wanted to sit in that room where everyone is on their laptop the whole time.

Plus the winner could meet all the big names. Hey, I’m sure you’re completely used to it by now, but that would be huge. Okay, I hope you enjoyed your first laugh of the day.

By Porkins

January 20, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

DOB,

You know you want to hold a contest or something and for the winner: For a home game this season, they get to follow you around at The Ted, media pass and all, and see what it’s like to have the greatest job in the world. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve always wanted to sit in that room where everyone is on their laptop the whole time.

Plus the winner could meet all the big names. Hey, I’m sure you’re completely used to it by now, but that would be huge. Okay, I hope you enjoyed your first laugh of the day.

By Porkins

January 20, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

DOB,

You know you want to hold a contest or something and for the winner: For a home game this season, they get to follow you around at The Ted, media pass and all, and see what it’s like to have the greatest job in the world. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve always wanted to sit in that room where everyone is on their laptop the whole time.

Plus the winner could meet all the big names. Hey, I’m sure you’re completely used to it by now, but that would be huge. Okay, I hope you enjoyed your first laugh of the day.

By Porkins

January 20, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Wow, big apologies to everyone about the triple post. I guess from now I have to close out my Internet Explorer after posting to come back. Embarrassing.

By KC

January 20, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Does any know where I can order official MLB baseballs (for autographs and such)?

By Zac

January 20, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

You killed the internet Porkins. The 5 minute wait for posts sucks so bad. Can that be removed?

By KC

January 20, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

METS FANS: I just wanted to let you know that bygones should be bygones. We won’t hold it against you that you came into our blog and poured salt in our wounds, told how the Mets were going to win the World Series, and how the Braves franchise was on the decline. This year, one of 3 things will happen:

1-The Mets will win the Wild Card, but will lose in the first round before ever getting an opportunity to face Atlanta.

2-The Mets will lose to the Braves in the NLCS.

3-The Mets’ offense will not be able to totally make up for their lack of starting pitching and somewhat weakened (from last year) bullpen, and they will fall short of a post-season berth.

When one of those three things happens… I want you to know that we won’t rub it in. We won’t remind you of your behavior last summer. Well… okay… I can’t promise that, but we do promise to treat your suffering with the same care and compassion you offered to us in our time of suffering. I CAN’T WAIT!!!!!! =)

By Lew

January 20, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

KC-Check with Sports Authority. They should have what you need, or Dick’s Sporting Goods should have them online, also. With a case they should cost about $12. You can buy them in sets.

By KC

January 20, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Thanks Lew!

By Bruce

January 20, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Dave: Thanks for filling me in on the depth chart in your 11:52 pm post… I thought it was done by the Braves, presumed that it and the active roster and 40-man roster lists were accurate. I had thought that Kelly was not posted at second yet because they were waiting for very good report on workouts with Hubbard and maybe hoping to make a trade for LF/2B/Leadoff.

Let me hit *1 now to ask another question:) I did notice near the end of the press conference when you asked Mr. Schuerholz whether he was done with trades and the roster being set for spring training… he had a substantial initial hesitation in his response… did you read anything into that? That maybe he does have another deal in the works that just might happen before spring training? Seems like he might have wanted to answer differently but did not per his policy of not discussing trades.

By brandon

January 20, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, is there any truth to the braves still trying to get figgins and a reliever for davies and salty. If not has there been anymore rumors about possible trades? Also i think this team is simillar to the 95 team and i think the results at the end of the season will be good considering we make a couple minor moves during the season

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 01:46 PM | Link to this

Ron, good point on LaRoche in postseason: 8-for-25 with two doubles, two homers, five walks and 10 RBIs in eight career postseason games.

By the way, since you mentioned Sheffield _ Sheff is 8-for-50 with NO extra-base hits, five walks and three RBIs in his past 12 postseason games.

By Lew

January 20, 2007 01:49 PM | Link to this

Brandon-With the move to pick up Gonzalez and having picked up Soriano earlier, we have too many relief pitchers already for available openings. McBride, Villarreal, Soriano, Gonzalez and Wickman are locks for the pen. That leaves Boyer, Devine, Paronto, Yates and Cormier to fill two openings. It is highly doubtful the Braves would do any deal now involving another relief pitcher (other than to maybe trade one of the others).

By JasonInMaine

January 20, 2007 01:50 PM | Link to this

Brandon,

Where did you here that the Braves are trying to get Figgins?

Regards,

Jason

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 02:00 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san, forgot about you over there in Japan when I mentioned the loss of our Vietnam correspondent. Fine work on the overnight shift (though what happened between 4 a.m.-7 a.m. _ c’mon man, pull your weight….

Childress, Allmans would definitely be in top tier of my list, too. At that record show I went to last week, picked up a pretty near mint-condition original copy of the Brothers and Sisters LP (yes, on vinyl. love the sound of vinyl on some of those older albums, actually sounds better than digital on some music, in my opinion)

By KC

January 20, 2007 02:09 PM | Link to this

BRUCE: I don’t think you should read anything into that. While JS won’t discuss any details of potential trades or who might be involved, he’s never been shy to say “we’re still trying to make our team better” or “we still have a couple conversations ongoing”. If he says there’s really nothing going on, then there probably isn’t.

By Lew

January 20, 2007 02:14 PM | Link to this

DOB-At Spring Training, do you ever get over to St.Pete? If so, you need to check out Bananas Music. Beachcomber has mentioned it in the past, also. It’s the best used vinyl store I’ve ever seen. The used to have cd’s also, but it’s been several years since I was there.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 02:19 PM | Link to this

Just noticed that this rather important stat got cut from my Braves story today, and figured a lot of you might wonder about Thorman vs. lefties. So here it is:

While he hit just .189 with one homer in 37 at-bats against left-handed pitchers in his first stint in the majors, but at Richmond last season he hit .293 (27-for-92) with three homers and a .789 OPS vs. LEFTIES, compared to .301 (65-for-16) with 12 homers and .906 OPS vs. righties.

Make of it what you will. Looks pretty solid, though, at Richmond. The major league sample’s probably too small to gleen much of anything from.

By Metroplitan Man

January 20, 2007 02:37 PM | Link to this

KC Pahleezeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! 3-The Mets’ offense will not be able to totally make up for their lack of starting pitching and somewhat weakened (from last year) bullpen, and they will fall short of a post-season berth……… Anyway congradulations on weaking your offense and defense while upgrading your pen. I guess this is the best 2 for 1 that JS has to offer his franchise!!! I’m glad you see the braves cup half full because your fellow bloggers dont know if this was good or bad. Bottom line is you wont be in the top 10 in offense next season but the METS will leae the wildcard for you and the Philthies to fight for.

By mr baseball

January 20, 2007 02:40 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah:

I’m not sure when the myth was created that Bobby Cox gets the most out of his players, but the facts don’t back it up. If someone can can site some names of position players who have performed better for the Braves than elsewhere, I will concede the point. However, I believe the opposite is closer to the truth.

Ryan Klesko became a much better player the minute he took off his Braves uniform. He lost weight, stole some bases, played better defensively and had three outstanding seasons in San Diego before he started getting hurt. He even got some hits off lefties. Brett Boone also took his game up several levels after the Braves traded him, but chemicals probably had something to do with that.

Fellow blogger Reggie Sanders has been a solid hitter for more than a decade, but his one season in Atlanta was BY FAR the worst of his career. Vinny Castilla played better before and after his two years here, and that can’t all be attributed to the parks he played in.

Then you have a bunch of youngsters Cox never really gave a serious opportunity to play who eventually became contributors elswehere: Graffanino, Randall Simon, Helms, DeRosa, and probably some others I can’t recall.

True, Drew had his best year here, but I don’t think Cox deserves the credit for his staying healthy. That was more of a free agency thing. Guys like Gallaraga, Sheffield & McGriff played well here and elsewhere, and there didn’t seem to be much letdown for Furcal last season in LA.

One reason for Cox’s reputation in that regard is how much players enjoy playing for him. Part of that is due to his lax attitude towards conditioning. The list of prominent Braves lacking in that department under Cox starts with Pendleton and includes Klesko, Gallaraga, Lopez and Andruw, not to mention a host of hefty relievers.

Just because a lot of people believe something to be true doesn’t make it so, and there is a lot of that in baseball. A few recent blog topics (hitters who strike out a lot, the importance of speed) are prime examples.

There is a whole lot of conventional wisdom in baseball that is very conventional but not especially wise.

By Mike

January 20, 2007 02:46 PM | Link to this

Im not worried about thorman, or kelly johnson for that matter…I think that they’ll both hit very well and will fill their positions respectfully…Im more concerned about three of the starting rotation spots. Smoltz will be smoltz like always and chuck james will continue to improve…Im worried if the Tim Hudson of old will ever show up again, weather or not Hampton can be healthy, or weather Kyle Davies can regain the confidence that he had when he first came up in 05..It would be really sweet if the braves got a cheap left field/leadoff player to take some pressure off of Kelly Johnson in his first full season…DOB has there been anything at all that would indicate that the reds would be willing to part with Ryan Freel?

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 02:49 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’ll check that out. We go over there once every spring, to St. Pete….

KC, meant to ask you if you saw Buster’s very good summation yesterday (on his blog) of the difficulties of getting to the bottom of the steroids mess. Forgive me if I’ve got the wrong guy, but I think it was you, a couple weeks or so ago, who was talking about how you’d start suspending people, demanding answers, etc.

Read that blog and let me know what you think, if things aren’t a lot more difficult than maybe you imagined (it’s yesterday’s Olney blog, so scroll down past today’s). I’m not saying told-you-so or trying to be a jerk, really just wanted to know if you saw it. He explained it clearly and succinctly, the difficulties, maybe even near-impossibilities, of getting to the bottom of it and punishing people.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 02:52 PM | Link to this

This probably won’t surprise many of you, but Brian McCann was voted Player of the Year for the Braves by the local chapter of the BBWAA. He got nine of 18 votes. Andruw got four, Smoltz three and LaRoche one (and no, I wasn’t the one who voted for LaRoche).

By Boom

January 20, 2007 02:55 PM | Link to this

WE NEED TO TRADE FOR RYAN FREEL TO MAKE THIS TEAM COMPLETE. PERFECT FIT FOR THE BRAVES FOR OUTFIELD OR SECOND AND THE KEY LEADOFF HITTER WE NEED TILL LILLIBRIDGE IS READY!!

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 02:55 PM | Link to this

Mike, you asked: “Has there been anything at all that would indicate that the reds would be willing to part with Ryan Freel?”

No, and also nothing to indicate the Braves want him.

By KC

January 20, 2007 03:15 PM | Link to this

METRO MAN: The Braves won’t be in the top-10 offensively??? LOL!!!!!!!!!

In all likelihood, we’ll be going from 32 homers/90 RBI at 1st, to 25 homers 70-80 RBI. LaRoche is a significant loss, but not as significant a loss as many think with Thorman waiting in the wings. Take away 7 homers and 15 RBI from the Braves’ 06 team offensive numbers, and they still come out better than the Mets. Sad (for you) but true.

The impact of having the most dangerous bullpen the NL has seen since Cinci’s Nasty Boys trio will be more substantial than anything lose by going from LaRoche to Thorman.

All bravado aside… I do think the Mets will win the Wild Card. I think the Mets will have a little better offensive team with the addition of Alou, and our subtraction of LaRoche. But the difference in these two pitching staffs will be much greater than the separation between these two teams offensively.

Your number-1 need was to upgrade the rotation. That didn’t happen, and your bullpen is somewhat downgraded. Additionally, the NL competition will definitely be stiffer. So make of that what you will.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this

Perhaps I should say, there’s been no indicate the Braves are pursuing him. I mean, a lot of teams would probably like to have him, since he can do a lot of things including lead off and play several positions (including 2B and the outfield).

But no indication from anyone I’ve talked to that Braves are pursuing him.

For what it’s worth, he did have a couple of alcohol-related arrests inside of a year, didn’t he? I know he had a DUI in ‘05 and then was arrested for public intoxication last winter, a fight or something.

But hey, not saying he couldn’t help Braves or that that’s a reason they wouldn’t want him. Just pointing it out.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 20, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, if the Angels dangled Figgins or the Blue Jays dangled Rios to the Braves would JS take them?

MetroMan, what in the hell is in your coffee, dude?! The Braves won’t be in the top 10 in offense? Are you kidding? I like LaRoche and all but I don’t think he would cause the team to fall 8 places. Please enlighten me to the 10 teams who will have a better offense than the Braves.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 04:04 PM | Link to this

In reference to whether or not Schuerholz has any other moves up his sleeve for the upcoming season, he’s not in the habit of tipping his hand as to what he’s thinking unless he’s manipulating someone. He’s very good at using people. He said that he’s satisfied going into the season with the team he has now. Of course he would say that. You wind up overpaying if you admit to having a weakness. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t make another move before the regular season starts. I also think that Villareal will have the 5th spot in the rotation instead of Davies. I think that our bullpen strength will maybe take some pressure off Hudson to be the stud that he hasn’t been. Hampton has always been one of my favorites and I expect him to bounce back strong, but not until he has a little early season stiffness that seems to come from being out so long. But he is a hoss and geeze I love it when he batting. And a word to the wise, don’t keep expecting Smoltz to be the stud that he has been. Sooner or later, he is gonna have to lose something because he is a power pitcher. He hasn’t exactly retooled himself like Clemens has. Lastly, I’m hoping that James can take that next step towards superstardom.

By Head Coach

January 20, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this

The payroll has dropped. Reitsma , Giles , Jordan , Pratt , Ramirez , Remlinger , Sosa and Thomson were paid 18 million last season. Wickman , Wilson , Gonzalez , Soriano and Woodward will make about 12.9 million this season. Smoltz is making 3 million less this season. Thats 8.1 million saved. John Schuerholz has done one hell of a job this off season triming payroll and building the best bullpen in the N.L. I’m just giving credit where credit is due !

By N8

January 20, 2007 04:28 PM | Link to this

Well said with you 4:18 post Head Coach.

Cheers.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 04:31 PM | Link to this

DOB: To add to your comments about why Andruw has not been shopped around, I think that because the front office allowed him to attain 10/5 status last year was a major shot in the foot. Andruw doesn’t wanna go anywhere else until he has to. If the team tried to shop him now, he would veto any attempt. After this season is over, he would love to be resigned by the Braves, but I doubt that Schuerholz would be willing, or allowed, to be a majot suitor for his services after this year. They should have gotten something for him when they had the chance, even if it looked like they were getting hosed in the deal. At least they would had more money to maybe spend this year. What do you think?

By journalist jimmy smith

January 20, 2007 04:33 PM | Link to this

kinda creepy. james brown is not yet buried. the godfather of soul is not in the hole. will he end up in someone’s basement? instead of a portrait might the next wurlitzer be a cadaver? oh, the humanity!

By Reality Check

January 20, 2007 04:37 PM | Link to this

mr baseball:

Then you have a bunch of youngsters Cox never really gave a serious opportunity to play who eventually became contributors elswehere: Graffanino, Randall Simon, Helms, DeRosa, and probably some others I can’t recall.

I’m sure you recall Jermaine Dye.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 20, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

Jerald, you are absolutely right. JS siad he was totally satisfied with the roster and it would be the roster going into spring training after Woodward was signed. He said the same thing after the Ramirez/Soriano trade. Obviously, he didn’t feel that way. Same thing now. He has all but admitted that the team needs a good leadoff hitter. I believe he likes Diaz and Langerhans but also realizes that neither one of them are good enough to hold it down everyday. I know DOB says that the dealing is done. But, I really do think that one more move is coming. If the Braves aren’t going to give Blanco a chance to win a job in the spring (which I don’t understand), then he has someone else in mind. I still say that Alex Rios and Chonne Figgins are names to watch out for.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

Oh, just a thought about our supposed lack of offense with LaRoche being gone. Does anyone think that Francouer won’t bounce back and have a great season? I would also like to think that Chipper might rebound and have a season without some of the nagging injuries that he’s had the last few years. If that happens, you could see Andruw, Chipper, and Francouer over the 100 rbi mark, as well as McCann. But then again, a lot of that depends on whomever we have leading off.

By Ron Roberts

January 20, 2007 04:48 PM | Link to this

Answering those responding to my January 19, 2007 05:34 PM post….

Wayne In Utah… somebody else beat me to laRoche’s clutch postseason numbers, but you also have to remember that LaRoche tended to bat late in the lineup, and folks past 4th or 5th in the lineup don’t usually have nearly the chances to knock runs in, either.

And I’m not a LaRoche-lover… I’m a Braves fan and on the record as being one of the very few who stood up for the guy after his fielding lapse last year as well as his presumed malaise around the bases in the NLDS in 2004 when it turns out he was sick as a dog…and I was sticing up for him long before he went on his second half tear last year, too.

Robert… you and Larry need to get a quiet place out in the country and live happily ever-after. This non-stop Bobby Cox-grinding isn’t going to yield anything other than high blood pressure from the both of ya, so really, get past it. He’s not going anywhere, and frankly, my pointing out all the things Braves fans have to hope goes well for their team in 2007 wasn’t an attempt to be a Cox-apologist, dude. There easily 20 other MLB teams who’d wished they had him in their dugout the past seventeen season, though, I assure you that.

KC… Every MLB team (Al and NL) have a hope list going into each season, true… ours is filled with questions, though. A perennial optimist (C’mon, when’s the last time you had dire predictions for the Braves? You were one of the last to concede last year’s team wasn’t making the playoffs, remember?) can’t be assured of all or any of the unkowns coming to a positive fruition.

I’m telling ya, noting that Chipper Jones has been plagued by injuries the past three seasons, there may come long stretches in the season when our infield will be….

3B- Aybar

SS- Renteria (at his age, let’s hope he stays injury-free, too, or who do we put here, Prado?)

2B- Kelly Johnson/Prado/Woodward

1B- Scott Thorman/Craig Wilson

We lose Chipper again (as we have a lot the past fewe seasons) for long stretches and we have Andruw, Francoeur and McCann to lean on in the lineup - and Andruw’s streaky (we all know and accept that because we love his glove and the long ball) and Francoeur has had prolonged Mendoza-line-like slumps both his seasons in the Majors.

Lte’s not forget that while the team’s bullpen *has8 been improvd, and seemingly our rotation as well with the return of Mike Hampton, we can’t be assured of anything from Hampton til he’s gone out there and proven his value to us, coming off such a long DL and rehab stint, and after Smoltz, a(hopeful) resurgent Hudson, and a sophomore starting Chuck James (who I have plenty faith in, but still, he’s a young starter and many players go through 2nd year dips see Francoeur), there are question marks.

Does the rotation have the potential to be solid from 1-5? Hell yeah.

Does this same rotation have the potential, conversly, to be brittle and ineffective? Hell yeah.

And that’s why I think taking chances on an entire half side of the infield is a dicey proposition. Hey, I like Scott Thorman and think he’s gotta nice damn swing himself, but we’re asking a lot of a kid coming up from the minors to step in and be a sure glove and bat in the one position that’ll see the ball more than any other player aside from the pitcher and catcher. And beside him will be either a first-time second baseman, a journeyman utility infielder or a flat-out rook.

I just scratch my head a little, when the GM who saw fit to solidify the Braves’ defense in 1991 to bolster the team’s strength - pitching - is the same GM who has again made pitching this team’s strength, but is rolling the dice on fielding behind ‘em.

By Shaun

January 20, 2007 05:04 PM | Link to this

Robert’s,

Francouer’s strikeouts would be okay if he avoided outs more in other ways, like walking. It doesn’t necessarily follow that a high strikeout guy is impatient. There are plenty of guys who strikeout a lot and walk a lot. You want a guy to be agressive within the strikezone but not swing at pitches outside the strikezone. Francouer’s problem is he is agressive inside and outside the strikezone.

As far as Salty, I’m not sure where you got that all the sudden Salty isn’t good. None of my posts have said that. All of my posts, if you read carefully, say that Salty is likely to become a star in the majors and that he’s even better than a lot of casual Braves fans think he is. I said his defense is not as good as McCann’s and may not ever be but he’s likely to become a great player because he’s shown so much power and plate discipline so far in his pro career. Salty is going to be an offensive force.

By Reality Check

January 20, 2007 05:13 PM | Link to this

So what the hell happened to Georgia today? Dominate until the last five minutes, then melt down and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Kansas just can’t buy an easy win, can they, DOB? It’s probably because I’m rooting for them for a change. Don’t let Bastard Bobby Knight prevail!

By The Stranger

January 20, 2007 05:27 PM | Link to this

Apologies to all who might’ve sat through the James Blunt set last night on Austin CL waiting for the star attraction — that was not a musical performance, it was a cry for help.

But if you made it through the grown-man-sobbing segment, you were treated to a lively, extended version of “Choctaw Bingo,” complete with unchoreographed dancers. Might not have flown in Baxter Springs, but the Austin crowd ate it up (at least the ones that hadn’t taken their own lives during the previous set).

By Ron Roberts

January 20, 2007 05:35 PM | Link to this

I’m a pop/top 40 radio station programmer, and even I can’t stand James Blunt’s incessant howling and crying. I’d imagine a feline proctology office would sound like a James Blunt set.

By Robert

January 20, 2007 06:04 PM | Link to this

Mr Baseball - VERY well said. THANK YOU!

By Robert

January 20, 2007 06:21 PM | Link to this

“There easily 20 other MLB teams who’d wished they had him in their dugout the past seventeen season, though, I assure you that.”

There’s nothing better than having an opponent who is dying to hurt himself at your benefit

Why the heck didnt we indulge one of those teams. Just imagine, if it had been the Yankees in 96 or 99, that’d be two more rings for the good guys right there

By KC

January 20, 2007 06:36 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, your “hopes:” list is awfully inclusive. When you say “hope” in the context you’re using it, you’re implying that whatever name follows the word “hope” is a question mark.

If you want to call Tim Hudson a question mark… fine, I’ll go with that. If you want to call Mike Hampton a question mark, I can deal with that as well (though I don’t think even remotely as iffy as you seem to). And if you want to call Kelly Johnson a question mark… I have no problem with that.

But I think it’s ridiculous for you to start calling out names like Smoltz, James, and Francoeur as though we’re rolling the dice with these guys. Give me a break! I think it’s even a little silly for you to include LF in that little “hopes” list of yours. Matt Diaz hit .327 last year and Craig Wilson’s got a lot of pop in his bat. Especially when you consider that the left-fielder will hit 8th in this order, there is no cause for concern there whatsoever.

The 5th starter?? Come on man, get real! If any 5th starter were a proven winner, he wouldn’t be a 5th starter. The Braves are simply in the same boat as 29 other teams there… possibly better, since they have 3 viable candidates for that job.

If you want to dismiss my opinion as the view of an eternal optimist… fine. But you’re in the minority, even among those here who are known to be more guarded with their optimism. And here’s why…

The Braves will certainly notice LaRoche’s absence offensively, but the Braves organization as a whole seems supremely confident (and I am as well) that they’re going to get at least 20-25 homers and 70-75 RBI from the 1B position. Subtract those numbers from what LaRoche gave us last season, and Atlanta’s offensive totals still wind up slightly ahead of the Mets’. This team will score plenty of runs this year once again.

Even if Hudson and Hampton both have disappointing seasons, we’ll simply find ourselves in the exact same situation as the Mets last season… an average rotation, a lights-out bullpen, and a great offense. Whether or not the Braves are World Series contenders depends on what we get out of Hudson and Hampton, and what form they’re in come September and October. If Hampton can shake off the rust and settle in sometime before the all-star break, and Hudson reverts even to his 04/05 form… yes, they will be WS contenders. If not, then yes… they’ll have to hope they fare better than the Mets did in October.

By KC

January 20, 2007 06:37 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: Off the baseball topic… How long have you worked in radio?

By Andy

January 20, 2007 06:47 PM | Link to this

I definitely agree with you Mike. I think the Braves should try to acquire Ryan Freel. He would complete the roster and be the solution to the leadoff spot. If I remember correctly he has a pretty decent glove and I know he has very good speed. The Reds have a surplus of OF. They have Dunn, Griffey, Denorfia, Conine, and Hopper. Denorfia is the leadoff hitter of the future for them. He was very good down the stretch for them last year. Freel is very versatile as well. If Johnson did not pan out he could play second base and Diaz could play everyday i left. The only thing about aquiring Freel is that we would have to let either Langerhans or Diaz go. I could see us acquiring Freel for Escobar and a bullpen arm. We actually have an excess for once. Krivsky stockpiles them like they are going out of syle.

By elbravox

January 20, 2007 06:56 PM | Link to this

For those in need of a baseball fix (me)there is a good playoff game in ESPN deportes. Dominican winter league. I think Aybar and Soriano are playing. Actually there are a bunch of big names. I din’t even know I had this channel. Good/lively atmosphere!

By Jon

January 20, 2007 07:08 PM | Link to this

Dave, What do you make of the article on braves.com in regards to Andruw’s upcoming contract negotiations? Sounds like their is a good possibility we could keep Andruw and it is not a foregone conclusion we will lose him after this season. I don’t think Andruw’s son will do any of he negotiations, but it sounds like we could get a small hometown discount. Also, do you have any sense of the intentions of the new ownership’s operating budget for the braves? payroll up, payroll down, or about where it is? That may be an impossible question to answer at this point. Thanks.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 07:12 PM | Link to this

Stranger, was McMurtry outstanding last night, or what? And yes, the “dancers” down front were nice.

Going to see Ron Sexsmith tonight. Should be a great show….

Reality Check, thought KU would have trouble in Lubbock, but figured they’d wear ‘em down in second half (which they didn’t do). Don’t know why the hell Self doesn’t press more.

When they went from 11 down to tied in about 90 seconds or so at the end, and still had more than 1 minute left, I thought they’d win it. Damn. Oh, well. Not going to win all of them in the conference. But that stings. Good thing is, Sherron Collins has really come on and played like the McDonald’s All-American that they recruited.

They can beat anybody if playing start to finish (like the 30-point blowout of Okla State, but can lose to any good team if they don’t hit 3’s, don’t pound it inside, and don’t make free throws (they didn’t even SHOOT free throws today _ how does a team get four free throws in a game?)….

Jerald, you asked me what I thought of your Andruw theories: Sorry, but I pretty much disagree with everything you said.

They didn’t trade him before he gained 10/5 status because they still believed they had a playoff shot until mid-August (even though the Mets sweep at end of July pretty well did them in in most people’s books).

They didn’t trade him after they were eliminated because they weren’t shopping him, and when the Red Sox called and heard how much the Braves were asking for him, the Sox said, thanks but no thanks.

They put him through waivers (as they have most other veterans one or more times in the past, including Chipper and Smoltz) because they knew he was coming up on his 10/5 status and they wanted to test the waters and see how much interest their might be, who’d put a claim on him, etc.

They didn’t trade him in the offseason because they didn’t want to, because they believed _ and still do _ that they have at least a decent chance to re-sign him, and also because they had no interest in taking a step back and rebuilding this year by dealing away Andruw, when they already knew they weren’t going to re-sign Marcus and might also trade others (such as LaRoche).

Oh, and I have no idea who you think is telling Schuerholz who to sign, but nobody is telling him anything of the sort. He does what he sees fit within a payroll. Nobody’s going to stop him from re-signing Andruw _ the payroll could stop him, but no person above him, unless new ownership takes a very different approach than old ownership, in which case you’d probably see Schuerholz say, “See ya.”

You really don’t want them to try to keep a nine-time Gold Glove winner who isn’t 30 yet and could end up hitting 600 homers, do you? Wow. I mean, I know Andruw’s not the most fundamentally sound clutch hitter going, but I’d sure think most Braves fans would prefer to hope for a raised payroll and a chance to re-sign the guy.

By Jon

January 20, 2007 07:25 PM | Link to this

Dave, Disregard my Andruw and Libery questions. I found in the blog where these topics were covered. Thanks.

By Reality Check

January 20, 2007 07:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, I think Kansas might have relaxed a little mentally when they tied the score. How else to explain that wide-open lane the Tech player was given to drive for the winning basket?

And what in hell did color analyst Norm Sequiter mean when he desrcibed Kansas on that play as being “like Buddy Holly in an ice storm”? It could be the most tasteless thing ever said on the air, except I couldn’t make heads or tails out of it!

All I know for sure is it showed no respect to one of the all-time greats of rock-n-roll.

By ElbravoX

January 20, 2007 07:35 PM | Link to this

Then again, watching this game has reaffirmed my status as a looser. For love of the game, I guess…

By The Grinch

January 20, 2007 07:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, just listened to that conference call. You’ve got a good radio affect. You darn near sound like a journalist. :-) Good points about Andruw; I think everyone here clammoring for him to be traded would feel something important missing before long, no matter who they got back. This guy is one of the greatest players in the game and we should be proud to watch him in a Braves uni.

By TennesseePaul

January 20, 2007 07:38 PM | Link to this

theBaseballCube is pretty cool.

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 07:42 PM | Link to this

The late shift is here…( I will try to better DOB! )

By hk

January 20, 2007 07:46 PM | Link to this

… (temporarily out of hibernation), some rough guesses as to the relative importance of the various changes in the Braves makeup you guys have been discussing … by far the biggest impact is in the closer / setup additions, worth maybe 9 more wins with the latest additions … next comes Chipper and Smoltz a year older, and Huddy ‘from the neck up’ problems, think he’ll do better, not expected to be #1 like last year (and not working the 6th :))…

Estimated Increase (decrease) in 2007 Braves Wins impact vs Last Year for selected items …

… (Worst Case /Probable/Best Case)

Wicky alone ……. -2/5/7 Wicky/Soriano…… 2/7/9 Wicky/Sor/Gonza … 7/9/13

Chipper (health) … -5/0/2 Smoltz (health) …. -5/1/2 Huddy (neck up) …. -3/1/4

1st Base Offense … -2/0/1 1st Base Defense … -2/-1/0

2nd Base Offense … -2/-1/1 2nd Base Defense … -2/-1/0

Tot Team Offense … -3/-1/2 Tot Team Defense … -2/-1/2

Tot Start Pitch … -4/2/6 Closer/ Setup …… 7/9/13 Other Relievers …. 0/1/2

Total Impact ……. -1/10/17

Proj 2007 Wins ….. 78/89/96

… a little cleaner in a spreadsheet,

click here

By ElbravoX

January 20, 2007 07:50 PM | Link to this

Rafael Landestoi, a name from the past, is the manager/player/GM for Licey. Wow, incredible. Only in the winter league. Tejada is playing, gotta give him props, between his huge paycheck and his streak- has all the excuses not to play.

By Robert

January 20, 2007 07:54 PM | Link to this

Are you sure the analyst’s name wasnt Non Sequiter?

I have a question for the members of El Burro’s fan club. How do you justify it taking 30 games for him to make the decision to flip flop LaRoche and McCann in the batting order? It didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that McCann can hit and was gonna be better protection for Andru than LaRoche was

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 07:58 PM | Link to this

You know, that conference call is actually pretty cool to listen to.

By Robert

January 20, 2007 08:04 PM | Link to this

Just got off the phone after an interesting conversation with a friend regarding the Craig Wilson signing

I expressed my opinion that the Braves had just flushed $2 million

He disagreed, pointing out that while it would be a problem if Wilson were being counted on to hit in the middle of the lineup, his numbers might be acceptable enough from a number 7 hitter.

He summed it up by saying that in his opinion, Craig Wilson is the kind of guy who can be managed to success

We quickly agreed that both of us could be right in our previously stated opinions of the deal

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 08:05 PM | Link to this

Jon, I just got through reading the article about Andruw on braves.com and it was a good read. It’s nice that Andruw wants to stay here that bad. It’s rare that anyone is willing to go to such lengths to remain with one team for his entire career and Andruw should be commended. But!!! I’m afraid that may not be enough. Schuerholz doesn’t give 5-year contracts much less 8-years, and I don’t think that he will further handicap the team by giving anyone more than 12 million per year. That is, under current ownership. I’d like to think that I’m wrong because I like Andruw more than any non-pitcher we’ve had in recent memory.

By Robert

January 20, 2007 08:08 PM | Link to this

HK - 78-96 wins eh?

Considering that it’s rare for more than one or two teams in a league to win more than 96, and that while several teams often win fewer than 78, it’s rare for any team that does so to have truly expected (vs hoped) to be at or above .500, this prediction amounts to saying

They might not be very good or they could be pretty darn good.

Which we all knew anyway.

Where exactly did you come up with those estimate figures?

By Bryan

January 20, 2007 08:10 PM | Link to this

Robert,

you keep the line up like it is to protect a rookie at the bottom of the line up. Seriously, a lot of teams do that with young stars. Brian’s first full season, he has to catch and hit, give the kid a break…

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 08:16 PM | Link to this

Craig wilson seems more like a security blanket to me. Kind of a “just in case Thorman doesnt get it done”. JS will never say that, but you believe that is why he is here.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 08:22 PM | Link to this

DOB: Calm down dude! You sounded like I want Andruw gone. Far from it. I’m one of the few here that defended him a couple of years ago when most wanted him traded because put on some poundage and wasn’t doing much at the plate. I said then, as I do now, that he saves us runs every game by making it hard for someone to drop a hit in centerfield. And I didn’t say that ownership is telling him anything, but he does have a budget to consider and he does have depth in the minors and he does have people that can move into centerfield when/if Andruw goes somewhere else. The things that I said were based on what I perceived as “the business side” of baseball. Sorry to upset you.

By Security Check

January 20, 2007 08:29 PM | Link to this

Subtle jokes, like Bobby Cox’s greatness, go — WHOOSH! — right over Robert’s head.

By ElbravoX

January 20, 2007 08:31 PM | Link to this

Aybar just broke his right ankle.

By ElbravoX

January 20, 2007 08:34 PM | Link to this

My bad, not Aybar, but Hernandez from the Mets.

By hk

January 20, 2007 08:36 PM | Link to this

Robert …

… I’m an old (very old) numbers guy, this is a from a program that I used at Exxon back in the 1960’s … the main number to focus on is the most likely, which is 89 wins … the upper and lower guesses, which of course are intuitive, are defined as ‘90% probability no higher than or no lower than’ … the process is than to run multiple iterations using a random number generator, which I was too lazy to do, probably would have come out 89 plus or minus 2 or 3 … the 79-96 I put down were sort of an ‘if everything goes great’ vs ‘everything is awful’ case … I guess the main purpose of the numbers was to convey perceived relative importance at the various positions, particularly Wicky vs Wicky+ vs Wicky ++ …

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 08:40 PM | Link to this

Reality Check, I had the same reaction when he made the Buddy Holly in an ice storm comment. Unbelievable. Sitting in an arena in Lubbock, where they have a statue of the man downtown….

Robert (JIB), couple things (a few actually), that you have completely twisted to suit your needs, apparently.

1. I didn’t say the “dealing is done.” I said unless a team blows the Braves away with an offer, I don’t expect them to make another significant move before spring training. It wouldn’t surprise me if they made a smaller move, such as trading away a backup or prospect. But I don’t really expect that either _ until spring training, when I think they will make a deal or two after they see what they’ve got and other teams see their own needs and surpluses.

2. You wrote “Jerald, you are absolutely right. JS siad he was totally satisfied with the roster and it would be the roster going into spring training after Woodward was signed. He said the same thing after the Ramirez/Soriano trade. Obviously, he didn�t feel that way. Same thing now. He has all but admitted that the team needs a good leadoff hitter.”

You continually exaggerate or simply exercise revisionist history to make a point. Schuerholz never said he was “totally satisfied” with the roster; he said if this is the roster they go to spring with, he’d “absolutely” be comfortable doing so. A little different, but nothing compared to this discrepancy:

You said, “He [Schuerholz] said the same thing after the Ramirez/Soriano trade.”

Quite the contrary. Totally the opposite, in fact. The day they officially announced the Soriano trade, here’s what I wrote after we talked to Schuerholz: “Schuerholz said the Braves would continue to talk to teams about possible deals.”

Now, where in that statement did you come up with, Schuerholz said the Braves are done dealing? Several times since then, Schuerholz has candidly (candid for him, at least) admitted the Braves have been discussing several possible deals, and just last week he said they wouldn’t stop pursuing or listening until the day the opening day roster has to be set.

And you wrote, “He has all but admitted that the team needs a good leadoff hitter.”

Again, completely the opposite of what Schuerholz (and Cox) have said since Giles left. Every single time they’re asked, they say that it’s not overly important who bats leadoff, that they didn’t have a prototypical leadoff man last year and had one of the league’s best offenses, etc. Find one single quote from Schuerholz or Cox this winter where they’ve said that getting a leadoff hitter is a priority, or even a need. Find ONE QUOTE that says that.

Please, try to stick at least to something remotely resembling the facts.

No one has said the Braves are absolutely done dealing. No one has said they wouldn’t do a deal if a great one came along. Why can’t you just live with that, instead of trying to find a conspiracy or read between the lines for stuff that’s not there?

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 08:46 PM | Link to this

Are you talking about El Duque? Where did you see that at?

By JACK

January 20, 2007 09:03 PM | Link to this

AS A LONGTIME BRAVES FAN, AND YES I’VE BEEN COMMING TO ATLANTA,SINCE THE 70’S WHICH IS ABOUT A 70,MILE TRIP EACH WAY AND PAYING INSANE, HIGH-TICKET-PRICES RIGHT NOW I REALLY NEED J.S,OR B.C,OR SOMEONE TO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY, THEY TRADED A YOUNG EVERYDAY PLAYER, FOR A PITCHER WHO MIGHT THROW 1-INNING A WEEK? IS IT THE FACT THAT COX,JUST DID’NT LIKE HIM?THE BRAVE’S REALLY CAN’T SAY IT’S THE MONEY,AND YET KEEP PAYING CHIPPER JONES,ALL OF HIS MONEY OR IS IT THE FACT THAT LaROCHE HAD THE GUT’S TO TELL COX AND THE BRAVE’S TO EITHER PLAY HIM EVERYDAY,OR TRADE-HIM THAT HE WOULD NO-LONGER BE A PALTOON PLAYER!AND HE WAS RIGHT.WHAT GOOD IS A RELIF-PITCHER,IF YOUR SO-CALLED SUPER STARTING-PITCHER’S,CANT GET OUT OF THE 2nd OR 3rd.INNINGS,AND BY-THE WAY M.L.B NEEDS TO TELLTIME-WARNER TO EITHER MAKE THE DEAL WITH LIBERTY,OR LET OTHER, PEOPLE,AND COMPANY’S MAKE AN OFFER FOR THE BRAVE’S.

By David O'Brien

January 20, 2007 09:05 PM | Link to this

Jerald, you didn’t upset me. Neither did Robert (JIB). I’m just trying to at least understand why some twist things entirely around, then ask me or others to comment on something that either never happened, never will happen, or happened in a very different manner that it was conveyed.

You’re going to read my post to Robert (JIB) after the one to you and conclude I’m angry or irritable. Not at all. Just don’t understand why we can’t operate on facts, or at least what we know and what has happened before, rather than coming up with all these convuluted, complicated scenarios for everything, even if the scenario isn’t based on facts.

But I don’t mean to throw a wet blanket on the wild speculation. So continue. Just please, don’t ask me to confirm or agree with you when you’re imagining things or coming up with theories based on nothing more than your own opinions.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 09:07 PM | Link to this

DOB: First off, don’t attack me for having my own thoughts but if the Braves, at some point before the start of the season, were able to get Baldelli for an assortment that might include Davies, Escobar, and Salty in some combination, would you consider that to be a minor move or a major move? Secondly, do you think that a deal like that would be doable?

By The Grinch

January 20, 2007 09:13 PM | Link to this

Which Hernandez? Keith?

Mitchie-san, I’ve had Kirin and Sapporo, and that’s about it for Japanese beer. What’s popular over there?

Robert, I thought about you this morning. I was eating a bowl of Honey Bunches of Oats, and the main ingrediant started affecting me. I had a sudden urge to get a washed-up Jeff Reardon warm in the bullpen for an important game.

By Drew

January 20, 2007 09:20 PM | Link to this

I’m guessing infielder Anderson Hernandez is probably who he is talking about since he got him confused with Aybar.

By ElbravoX

January 20, 2007 09:34 PM | Link to this

I spend more time correcting my post than posting something of value. Andeson Hernandez (Mets) severely sprained an ankle. Besides him, who cares? I mean really.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 09:37 PM | Link to this

DOB: I wasn’t asking you to agree with me. I was asking for your opinion. After all, this is your blog. And unfortunately, during the offseason, some of us have nothing better to do than sit around and speculate about what might happen. That’s half the fun. BTW, have you heard anything about El Duque?

By Jerald Holcombe

January 20, 2007 09:41 PM | Link to this

Elbravox: If it had been Orlando Hernandez, it would have been substantially more newsworthy

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 09:49 PM | Link to this

I love Sapporro. I actually got to go to the factory up in Hokkaido. There ia another beer here called Asahi, but it seems alot like the “miller lite/budweiser” of Japan. Its all over the place, but not as good as other beer. (kirin and sapporro)

By ElbravoX

January 20, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

If it was El Duque, it would have been a miracle. The guy got hurt while flying through the bases. Didn’t El Duque get his AARP papers?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 20, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, you are right that JS never said specifically that he was looking for a leadoff hitter. But, the fact that he did have discussions with the Angels about Figgins, the Rays about Baldelli, and asked the Pirates for Duffy tells me that he is seeking a leadoff hitter. I believe he is fully prepared to go into the season without a bonafide leadoff hitter. I think that is a mistake, but I’m not nearly as smart as JS, so I will leave that at that. I’m not being an a**. I’m serious. The man is behind one of the greatest runs in sports, so who am I to really say if he is wrong. But, I think he is.

As for my other comments, I guess I didn’t make myself clear. I gathered from JS’ comments that the Braves were not actively seeking any more deals. If one was presented to them they would take it, but they were not really going after any.

I don’t want you to get all “Kenny Williams” on me. I like you and respect you and know you are the best at what you do, so the last thing I want to do is p** you off.

I know my trade scenarios can become tiresome. Hell, I annoy myself sometimes. I am just thinking out loud and throwing stuff out here. Sometimes it sounds good in your head, but once others comment on it you see how ridiculous it is. Sometimes I don’t think they are ridiculous.

I have no reason to say what I’m about to say other than a “gut” feeling as you said about me yesterday. But, I just have the names of Alex Rios and Chonne Figgins rolling around in my head. I knew deep down that LaRoche was getting traded. I can’t explain it. I just felt it. Even when it seemed like it wasn’t going to happen and everyone was saying that talks had grown cold. I’m not saying that I think 100% a deal will get done but it would really not surprise me if another one did within the next week or two.

Again, DOB, didn’t mean to tick you off. I know you have enough assclowns on here to do that already. I apologize for any inaccuracies that I have said.

By Ron Roberts

January 20, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

KC…

First off, I’ll answer the radio question… almost 17 years now.

Secondly, reciewing your post about all the hopes Braves fans have to have… you conceded to…

1. Mike Hampton’s recovery and effectiveness

2. Tim Hudson’s rebounding from a disappointing 2006 campaign

3. Kelly Johnson as an everyday 2B…

Consider that if Hudson is only as effective as he was last year, and Hampton isn’t the pitcher he was before he hit the disabled list, we have one proven starter in our rotation - John Smoltz.

Which leads me to Chuck James. Yeah, I like this kid’s moxy, and think he’s destined for a successful career. Does that mean I’m sold on his 2007 potential? No. Not saying he won’t do well, but I wouldn’t bet the mortgage on it. I’ve seen great rookie pitchers struggle their following season(s) time and again; do I think Chuck James is different? Yeah, I actually do, but that’s me being hopeful, too.

Back to Smoltz… I merely mention him because the guy’s gonna turn 40 on May 15th, and let’s all remember that two seasons ago, he wasn’t going to be available for a deciding Game 5 of the NLDS (had we actually gotten to it) in 2004. Yeah, the man’s rock-solid dependable all these years, but how long do we count on that until nature takes it’s course?

Jeff Francoeur, in his 2nd season, was a slight letdown. He only had two months in 2006 whre he hit better than .275. Two months out of essentially six. In fact, he had three months where he hit under .250. Sure, he’s got superstar written all over him, but does that mean we just go ahead and pencil in .320 with 35 HR and 115 RBI from him this year?

Either way, since you validated two concerns in the rotation, that is slightly more than 40% of our games, right away (the 5th starter gets looked over when off-days fall into place here and there). And again, I’ll wonder and wonder about this until they prove themselves… how does the GM who stressed defense behind his solid pitching staff in 1991 now decide defense isn’t important behind his re-built pitching staff and bullpen in 2007?

By Bryan

January 20, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

Hey dave, the Buddy Holly ice storm comment was because there is an ice storm in texas and there is a statue of buddy holly out in the ice storm.

So, yeah it sounded rough - but he was referring to the statue - which i think they panned to during the game.

By Mitchie-san

January 20, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

It is unfortuate that we have solved the bullpen problem and am now facing a starting pitching problem. I am going to keep my fingers crossed just like everyone else, but it will be in the front of a lot of peopes minds. The starting rotaion has a potential to be great, but alot has to happen for that to occur. I would have loved if we got one more true starter as an insurance policy….

By Greg in TN

January 20, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

Greetins folks…

25 more days until pitchers and catchers report for spring training.

DOB I know you mentioned this some time ago in terms of what Liberty may or may not do with the payroll if and when they are able to finalize a deal with Time Warner. I threw out $8 - 10 million as a guesstimate towards what I think would be a nice adjustment to the payroll. I have to say that as time continues to move along, I am beginning to wonder if TW and Liberty can get this deal done in time. At this point, anything can happen, and as time keeps passing, I find myself getting more and more antsy. Guess that’s just human nature. Also in regards to your comments at 11:44 last night, I for one appreciate the unbiased/inside view. I will be first to admit that while I try and look objectively at things, I’m still first and foremost a passionate fan about this team and will always be that way. I respect everyone’s opinion on the blog, even though I may not agree with them (Yes, I’m a JS and BC fan which shouldn’t be a surprise to most reading my posts). Anyway, I really enjoy having this outlet to talk baseball and Braves baseball.

I’m a little surprised to hear JS’s comments in regards to Wilson not being pursued to platoon with Thorman, but I’m open to seeing what the kid will do in spring training. If Thorman can play everyday and do so by being effective against both lefties and righties, so much the better for us.

By br618

January 20, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

who cares about franceours’ batting average? the bottom line is rbi and runs scored…if he gets 90-100 rbi he is successful…chipper had 86 rbi his first full year and andruw had 70, 90, and 84 rbi his first 3 full years…franceour had 103 his first full year

By Robert

January 20, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

“Subtle jokes, like Bobby Cox’s greatness”

Calling Cox great is not an obvious joke, not a subtle one

By Robert

January 21, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

“Robert, I thought about you this morning”

O….K - please tell me the sheets didnt get messy :)

By flbravesgirl

January 21, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this

Player of the Year. Nice. Does Mac get any hardware for that? A little plaque, maybe? N8, if you’re that curious, there was an article and accompanying picture on DOB in Choptalk a while back. I think it was early last season but not sure. Do they have archives? Isn’t anyone else disturbed by the idea of Lew looking like Scarlett Johanson?

By The Grinch

January 21, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

Man. Just watching NFL total access and they’ve got Jeff Garcia in the booth. Seeing him without a helmet on further proved my suspicions…the dude looks just like Nosferatu. Frighteningly so, pardon the pun.

Mitchie-san, thanks for the info. Glad they’re not all walking around drinking Budweiser, anyway.

Robert, analyzing a fragment of one of my sentences and coming up with that indicates you’re a sick puppy. I forgive you though; that much Cox worship is bound to be mentally unhealthy. Settle down, man; he’s not a god. Others have contributed to the Braves’ success over the years as well.

By Reality Check

January 21, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this

Hey, Bryan, thanks for the clarification. I get the joke now. But considering Buddy Holly lost his life during a winter storm, I would think ESPN’s Norm Sequiter would show a little more sensitivity than to make such a joke.

But when you expect good judgment from ESPN, you’re almost always gonna get disappointed.

By Reality Check

January 21, 2007 12:51 AM | Link to this

Hey, Bryan, thanks for the clarification. I get the joke now. But considering Buddy Holly lost his life during a winter storm, I would think ESPN’s Norm Sequiter would show a little more sensitivity than to make such a joke.

But when you expect good judgment from ESPN, you’re almost always gonna get disappointed.

By The Grinch

January 21, 2007 01:11 AM | Link to this

FBG, you may rest assured. Lew looks about as much like Scarlett as I do. In other words, not.

ESPN is many things, both good and bad, but classy and tactful aren’t among them.

Now, pie…

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 01:12 AM | Link to this

Maybe if Lew’s daughter looks like Scarlett Johansson? No? Then maybe Scarlett O’Hara? … oh, nevermind. Lew, stay away. Too controversial now….

Great show tonight at Smith’s. Ron Sexsmith can write and sing a song, folks. What a talented dude….

Oh, Don at Ella Guru introduced me to a hardcore Mets fan from Ithaca, NY, tonight, guy who’s finishing up law school at Emory (but not some rich young snob _ well, maybe rich, i don’t know, but not at all a snob. cool, grungy dude looked more like a guitar player than a lawyer… anyway, the guy said he and his wife read this blog all the time but he doesn’t post (I asked him if he was Metropolitan Man), and he said he loves the sometimes-heated exchanges between Braves and Mets fans….

Anyway, my point is, he was a good dude, seemed really normal and intelligent. So I’m frankly alarmed, because it destroyed my stereotype of Mets fans. Damn him!

By Lew

January 21, 2007 01:13 AM | Link to this

FBG-I assure you and everyone that I look nothing like Scarlet Johansen. I don’t look that great as a guy. I would make the ugliest woman you ever saw, Trust me on this point. Grinch must have been indulging in some extremely strange substance to come up with that fantasy.

By lowerbrau

January 21, 2007 01:27 AM | Link to this

The Better Actor? Mike Myers or Brad Pitt. Talk amongst yourselves.

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 01:34 AM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), just scrolling up from bottom here and saw your post. No problem at all, man. I often overreact (must be from too much time on this blog; certainly couldn’t be an indication of a bad temper or anger problem with me … no way, couldn’t be that).

Anyway, no worries man. Just having spirited debate here, nothing wrong with arguing or debating or squabbling now and then. It’s healthy long as we can all take it for what it is _ just a blog, nothing personal.

Thanks for the post, though. Appreciated.

By The Grinch

January 21, 2007 01:34 AM | Link to this

I was elaborating on Dave’s point that we all have little or no idea what the rest of us look like, Lew. Trust me, neither you nor Robert enter into my fantasy world in any capacity. Jeez.

Dave, Ithaca is home to Ithaca guns, a fine company. I used to have an Ithaca MAG-10 Deerslayer shotgun; destroyed a great deal with it. Perhaps folks in that town are not typical Mets fans.

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 01:39 AM | Link to this

Jerald, heard nothing about El Duque, other than he got a day older today. So add 4-5 years to his listed birthday and that’ll give you his approximate age (kidding. sort of. no, not really kidding)

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 01:45 AM | Link to this

There you go again, Grinch, adding to the visual I have of you blogging from your home at the end of a dirt road, with mounted animal heads strewn about, amid piles of old stereo equipment, and a beat-up Camaro on blocks that you’ve been working on most weekends for several years…. But it’s a cool sort of dump, with the Allmans and Skynyrd cranked a bit too loud and a couple of old dogs hanging out on the porch.

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 01:57 AM | Link to this

Jarald, regarding Salty/Escobar/Davies for Baldelli _ I’d consider that fairly major, certainly not a minor deal. And who knows? It may well be doable. And that’s what I mean _ if someone approached the Braves with a deal that blows their doors off (like that), I think they’d do it. But I mentioned yesterday a conversation I had with a former D-Rays … well, I don’t want to say what he was, because that’ll make it too easy for folks familiar with that organization to narrow it down to who he is, and I don’t want to do that … but anyway, I talked to this guy and he said he believes Rays have backed away on shopping Baldelli in light of this latest mess with Dukes, their outfield prospect who was busted recently.

Anyway, yes, that’d be a pretty big deal and I’d do it if I were the Braves, though I know some will say they need starting depth and shouldn’t trade Davies. I’d do it because Baldelli is so relatively affordable, as we’ve discussed before at great length, and because the Braves have even more middle-infield depth now than they did when we first discussed that trade, back when it had actually be discussed in some form.

But again, I don’t know that the Braves have even talked to the Rays any time recently.

Oh, and I didn’t attack you. I did, however, verbally attack the idiot tonight standing at the bar at Smith’s whose obnoxious girlfriend wouldn’t stop talking during Sexsmith’s low-key, acoustic numbers. She did shut up at that point _ for about 10 minutes. Then, the girl with the attention span of a 3-year-old went back to yakking non-stop.

So I waited outside and ran over them with my car.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 21, 2007 02:01 AM | Link to this

No problem here, DOB. I know go a little overboard with my trade scenarios. Some of which I think are more me hoping they happen then believing they will. I will still stand by my belief that another deal could be coming. I tell you what, though. Alex Rios or Melkey Cabrera would be very nice additions to this team. I could definitely see Yunel Escobar being dangled to get one of those guys. Or maybe not.

DOB, do you though think it would have been a good idea to sign a Mark Loretta or Ronnie Belliard to play 2B and allow Kelly Johnson to ease into the position instead of just throwing him in there. Not saying he won’t adjust and do a good job, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 21, 2007 02:05 AM | Link to this

Robert, good job of selling your point. Schuerholz can stay mum on what he’s thinking or beat around the bush as much as he likes, but his actions tell a different story. And I wouldn’t wanna be guilty of saying that he said something that he didn’t, but did he not say after the fact that he didn’t want to have the same meltdown from the bullpen that he had last year? That being the case, maybe he doesn’t wanna sit still with an unproven commodity at leadoff either. Kinda makes you wanna go hhhhmmmmmmmmmm!

By GermanBravesFan

January 21, 2007 02:07 AM | Link to this

DOB: I am impressed with your patience and diligence when it comes to dealing with people’s theories and questions here. I have been following your blogs since November and it seems like many of the questions have been asked over and over again and yet, you seem to still find the time to answer them AGAIN! I think all these discussions and theories mean nothing until the season starts. Only then will we see how things pan out… No need to keep talking about the same things.

Grinch: how are you doing? Been to Milledgeville lately? I am applying for a job in Kennesaw right now - if all works out, I will be able to make it to some games this season! That would be amazing!!! I am tired of going to San Francisco and listen to all those people cheering for Barry Bonds.

Oh well… back to watching Aussie Open!

By The Grinch

January 21, 2007 02:07 AM | Link to this

Dave, what makes you think you have anger management issues and/or spend too much time on this blog? :-) You’re surprisingly close to accurate in your assessment of my dwelling place (and just about dead-on to what I left behind in Swainsboro); thank god the house has a dose of natural and inherited class that my tastes/habits haven’t offset completely. I’m working on it, though.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 21, 2007 02:11 AM | Link to this

DOB, I know the Rays want a plethora of starting pitching for Baldelli or Upton. But, even they have to realize that no team in their right mind or wrong one for that matter is going to give them TWO major league experienced young starters. That is just asinine. I am thinking (or at least hoping) they would catch somebody off guard and desperate like the Pirates who would overract and make such a stupid deal. If the Braves offered Davies, Escobar and Diaz or Langerhans instead of Salty do you think they would take the deal? Perhaps, the Braves could throw in Devine to go along with Escobar and Davies. While I would like to keep Devine he has become somewhat expandable with Gonzles’ and Soriano’s acquisitions.

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 02:12 AM | Link to this

For legal reasons, I probably should make it clear I was obviously only kidding about running over the jerk couple. Though the thought crossed my mind…. no, no, no. kidding. stop it.

By mr baseball

January 21, 2007 02:15 AM | Link to this

Reality alert: The Braves are done dealing for the time being for some obvious reasons. They have no one of value on the likely 25-man roster they can afford to deal, and a prospect for a front line player swap is out of the question due to self-imposed payroll restraints.

The Reds are not going to deal Freel (no viable starter in RF behind him); the D-Rays are definitely not going to swap Baldelli for whatever the Braves have left to offer; and the Angels are certainly not going to part with Figgins after losing McPherson for the season.

There are going to be NO (repeat NO) upgrades at 1B, 2B or LF until at least the end of spring training, and the pitching staff is set barring injury. SO PLEASE FORGET ABOUT THESE FANTASY LAND TRADES THAT ARE NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Sometimes this blog resembles a Star Trek convention teeming with arguments about alternate universes and Klingon pronunciations.

Sorry I missed Austin City Limits last night (the last half hour at least). Nice set tonight on ACL by the Dixie Chicks, a band I’m sure is near and dear to all on this blog.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 21, 2007 02:26 AM | Link to this

I wasn’t aware about the Dukes kid, but did hear that the DRays were gonna wait until Spring Training before they pursued anything that might involve Baldelli. Maybe Dukes is the reason. As for the experiment at second, I will say that I’m curious to see if Hubbard can make Kelly Johnson a wizard at second base like he did Giles. Those of us that remember Giles first year remember that the kid was so bad. Plus, I’m curious to see if Kelly Johnson can be the stick Bobby says he can be. I know that Bobby has given him more chances than some others that have passed through here. I don’t know that I would make him a leadoff project though because that would be like throwing him to the wolves. I might be more inclined to use Diaz there. No matter though, I can’t wait to get started. This is gonna be fun this year. If the leadoff question can be answered, this just might be the deepest team that Atlanta has fielded since ‘95.

By Mitchie-san

January 21, 2007 02:35 AM | Link to this

I have been on the Rocco bandwagon ever since it came out that they wanted him. I hope it isnt a “fantasy land trade” and it actually happens. if it does, this team would be solid all they way around. That would have to put a scare into the hearts of mets fans. Oh wait, most dont have a heart…

By Robert

January 21, 2007 02:42 AM | Link to this

“Robert, analyzing a fragment of one of my sentences and coming up with that indicates you’re a sick puppy. I forgive you though; that much Cox worship is bound to be mentally unhealthy. Settle down, man; he’s not a god. Others have contributed to the Braves’ success over the years as well.”

I almost swallowed my dip laughing at that comment

By Jerald Holcombe

January 21, 2007 02:45 AM | Link to this

Sorry Mr Baseball, but I’ve never been to a Star Trek convention, but you seem to have too much info as to what goes on at one of them. Are you admitting to something here?:-) At any rate, I agree with you that the dealing is all done until some point in spring training. I may need DOB’s help on this one, but I don’t think that the Braves 25-man major league roster is set. I say that because during the offseason, you never hear about someone leaving the team and his roster spot being taken by someone else. I think until the end of Spring Training we are looking at the 40-man protected roster. Can you assist DOB? But I do disagree with you on how much the Braves have that they can deal with.

By The Grinch

January 21, 2007 02:46 AM | Link to this

Greetings, German Braves Fan. I have not been to Milledgeville lately, though I was in Kennesaw the day before yesterday. Good place, and a battlefield park on hand. Let me know if you wind up moving there; my cousin lives right around the corner. Maybe we can all catch a game together. At the moment, I happen to be drinking German beer. Good stuff.

Dave, careful; the blog police record every thought and deed. Really, though; is there anything more annoying than people who run their yap during an obvious time to pay attention? My girlfriend does that during sex and it P** me off. :-)

By The Grinch

January 21, 2007 03:01 AM | Link to this

Just got through a 10-minute live version of Zeppelin’s “Trampled Underfoot.” Man, they threw down. OK, folks; it’s three o’clock. Time to raid the fridge and pass out. You don’t have to go home but you can’t stay here…

By GermanBravesFan

January 21, 2007 03:02 AM | Link to this

Hello Grinch! Good to see you are alive and well… ;-) It would be great to hang out at a Braves game - first beer is on me (if you can call it that… you know what they say: American beer is like making love in a canoe - it’s f*ing close to water!). Anyhow, it’s fun to see that JS stepped up and got Gonzalez even though I hate to see Laroche go. But that’s life, I guess! Give Thorman a chance - the Braves wouldn’t have done the deal if they didn’t have faith in him (and I trust JS’s and BC’s judgements).

Can’t wait for the season to start - go Braves!!!

By The Grinch

January 21, 2007 03:22 AM | Link to this

I completely agree; mass-produced American beer is quite pitiful. And then they make “light” versions of it, as if it weren’t that way to begin with. Oh, well; we still have beautiful women. Time to sleep; keep me updated. We can get decent beer at the Chop Shop or the Beers of the World stand. Later, all.

By Bryan

January 21, 2007 04:19 AM | Link to this

Grinch, i am in Denver right now for an internship (then i will be in Bay Saint Louis with that internship as a leader of a Katrina rebuilding crew) and I can say from the micro pubs out here - America has great beer. Mountian Sun Brewery in boulder is some of the best beer i have ever had… . i get you point (especially about the women) but come out here and try the beer - its great! (or just drink some sweetwater or terripin in GA.

By Mitchie-san

January 21, 2007 05:33 AM | Link to this

Well I am the only one here. My time is up for today….

Go Braves

By ncscoots

January 21, 2007 07:25 AM | Link to this

random thoughts on the overnites…I was somewhat disappointed to see DOB’s retraction at 2:12 AM. Violence by auto is a perfectly acceptable response to the behavior of such heathens…re all the “hopes” for the ‘07 Braves, yes, the planets do have to align for the team to be spectacular. But baseball karma evens out, and since last year was such a fount of misfortune, I conclude the baseball gods will bless this year with good fortune…if Glenn Hubbard can remake Kelly Johnson into a 2B in the space of a single winter, then I fear for his soul, for he surely is in league with the devil, LOL…some blogger opined that Prado is “not a major leaguer”, and I wonder if he/she might post some logic behind that reasoning. I see a guy who is a near-.300 career minor league hitter with a good glove…Lew’s my buddy, but the juxtaposition of he and Scarlett Johanssen - no, I can’t go there, that’s an alternate universe I dare not visit…I think that might be the same alternate universe in which Matt Diaz could be considered a candidate to play every day and hit leadoff (!)…the poor D-Rays obviously have not been able to teach that “character counts”. Maybe Upton, Young, and Dukes should start their own gang…the sky is lightening with the North Carolina dawn, one day closer to PCR (pitchers and catchers report). Time for one more cup of Kona, and then off to the mundane tasks of the weekend. Not as much fun as the blog, but there you go :-)

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Wake up Call: 1) The 1st base side will suffer in defense and offense. 2) No experiecned 2nd baseman, offense declining here also. 3) No leadoff hitter who can jumpstart an inning or score a run without the benefit of a hit. 4) If Woodward is your bench then you got a good teamate, just a bad bat. How can you guys compare your top 3 pen guys with th Nasty Boys. Just like Strawberry, Howard Johnson and Kevin Mac took care of them, Delgado, Beltran, Alou and Wright will handle those bums. Gonzalez will “Dan Kolb” you guys all year long while Rochie puts up better numbers than Chipper (you guys call him that becasue he breaks like China). Hampton is question mark, the C. Pavano of the braves. Look at the big picture braves fans/bloggers/fairweathers: The braves cant find a buyer, cant sell out a home playoff game anymore, restricted payroll, declining fanbase, less tv time, new anouncers that you guys dont want. Dont be too down you have tooner field, a jumbotron, and that bbq sauce those old guys sell. Now the METs have a new ballfield in the works which will generate 20 million extra a year. The money is already there, 20 million is a bonus on top of the funds that is available unlike insufficent funds you guys are playing with. Then there is the TV deal that started last year, new minor league facilities, and need I go on. Turn in your application for METS fan to nycbest@excite.com, if you burn your braves stuff, we waive the application.

By Sam

January 21, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Wake up call accepted. You are right about much of that. Please view this one with same open mind. 1) this is a Braves blog 2) the people on this blog will remain Braves fans no matter what you type 3) why in the world are you here? 4) please leave

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 21, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

MetroMan, you may be right. I doubt it. But you may be. However, I find it funny that you and your fellow Mets fans are saying the offense will be better because Moise Alou was signed. Why don’t you look over the last five or so years and see how many times he has been on the DL and how many games he has missed. You say Chipper breaks like China? How would you characterize “15 Day-DL” Alou?

Also, your starting rotation has more question marks than the Braves. Hampton is coming off injury, but he has taken the full amount of time required to heal and sure as hell as a very impressive resume to back him up. Does Pelphrey? Maine? Perez? Well, actually Perez does have a resume but I wouldn’t suggest looking at it if you don’t want to get an upset stomach.

You keep talking about question marks. What about Carlos Delgado? He began to become quite brittle last season? Will Pedro be back at the All-Star break? Or at all? Shawn Green in RF? Okay.

What happens if Billy Wagner gets hurt or just implodes? At least if Wickman does the Braves have Gonzales and Soriano to back up. So, yes the Braves have some questions and it is exactly why I think more moves should be made. However, your Mets have as many questions, if not more.

By Wojtek Fibak

January 21, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

American beer tastes of water because the American Illuminati discovered long ago that most American beer drinkers were of the ilk that would eat white bread laced with trans fat and corn syrup. Why charge 1 ducket for a full beer when you can charge 1 ducket for a 1/3 beer and 2/3 water concoction that triples the profits. Of course, some of that logic has been supplanted now that Pmericans pay for “clean” drinking water in polyethylene bottles.

How many Americans does it take to change a light bulb?

By Wojtek Fibak

January 21, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Metroplitan Man, one waives an application fee, not an application. Stupid American.

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Sam you must be new becasue I’ve been bloggin a long time. Robert all those things mentioned are true except Delgado is rehabbing and by his own admission will be better than ever. Green is RF is the not that much of a worry comapared to your 1st base, second base, leadoff and bench. Like I said, our pitching is suspect but it was last year and the TEAM played as well as you can in all aspects. Pedro will be back to anchor this rotation right into the playoffs again while the Philthies give you a run for the wildcard. All I know if I just had the METS to root for and no braves to root against, then the stankees would be enemy # 1. You guys serve a purpose, you keep METS fans honest and brave fans optimistic. JS has finally run out of magic dust so see you at tooner field, I’ll be the one in the Metropolitan Jersey eating a bbq sandwhich with sugar water so I can fit in.

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Wojtek Fibak= Borak without the smarts!!!!!

By Lew

January 21, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

MetroDude-Wishful thinking. The Mets and their non-existent pitching staff is going down.

By TLJ

January 21, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Metroplitan Man,

You guys win the division one year (It was probably the weakest division in baseball) and you think you’re the 1927 yankees. The mets may and I stress may be the best team in the east division of the NL but you will ALWAYS BE THE SECOND BEST TEAM IN NEW YORK. THE YANKEES WILL ALWAYS RULE NEW YORK. EVEN WITH YOUR NEW BALL PARK YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH THEM.

The Yankees are on the front page of the New York Times, the mets are on the back page of the new york post, always playing second fiddle.

By Lew

January 21, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Gee, Metro Dude-By their own admission,, Hudson is stengthening himself this winter and so is Chipper. If DelGado says he’s working out and you accept it, then you have to accept that Hudson and Chipper (as well as Hampton) are coming back strong, too. Dude, that’s the stupidest logic you’ve ever used.

By Carolina Lady

January 21, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Let me see - - - the Mets finished how many years BEHIND the Braves?? :-)

By Lew

January 21, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Stinky-By any other name, you’re still a Whiny Little Jerk. How’s that for a reality check?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 21, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Well, you are the ultimate optimist if you think Pedro will be back by the All-Star break and can stay healthy once he is back. I’m one of the biggest Pedro fans but the guy is text book definition of injury prone. Your young starters could come through and be big time. But, don’t forget so could James and Davies.

By TLJ

January 21, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB,

I was looking at Baseball America’s Handbook and noticed where Arizona # 2 prospect Chris Young is a CF, 5 tool player and apparently ready for the majors. Arizona is loaded with talented young outfielders but have few catching prospects.

I have no idea if they would consider trading him but a trade of Salty for Chris Young could be benefitical to both teams. Are you familiar with Chris Young? Would Arizonia consider trading him?

I know you’re tired reading about all of the crazy trades proposed by us fans but I thought this could kind of interesting.

Thanks for all of the information you provide.

By Carolina Lady

January 21, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

‘Mornin’, Lew! How you doing this am?

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

From MLB.com

GUAYNABO, Puerto Rico — Carlos Delgado has entered the final part of his rehabilitation from arm surgery and says he will be ready for Spring Training. The Mets first baseman, who had a left arm tendon repaired in October, says he should be ready to start batting practice on Jan. 22 and will have his arm evaluated in two weeks.

“I believe that I have recovered rather well. I am not 100 percent, but anyway, the doctors say that I am not supposed to be 100 percent right now,” Delgado said Wednesday after donating $184,000 from his Extra Bases Foundation to several nonprofit groups in his native Puerto Rico.

Delgado’s right wrist was also operated on in October because of carpal tunnel syndrome.

He hit .265 with 38 homers and 114 RBIs in his first season with the Mets, then batted .351 with four homers and 11 RBIs in the playoffs.

Now LEW, show me the comments by hudson, chipper and hampton harping this and then prove your LOGIC to your statement.

Everyone will be second class to the Yankees unless you produce 26 WS rings or 14 divisional chokes, your choice. We may be second in NY to Stankee fans but the METS in #1 in Atlanta!!!!!

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

I’ll set the over-under for Pedro’s return at Aug. 15. And I’ll take the over (say, Sept. 1).

By Head Coach

January 21, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

The truth of the matter is this : The Braves have so many question marks right now that it is almost impossible to know how they will perform as a team. Wait until they are six weeks into the season and then we will know a whole lot more about them as a team. Just keep the fingers crossed , hope for the best and pray for the baseball Gods to smile down on our Braves.

By Carolina Lady

January 21, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t be surprised if it took longer than 6 weeks for them to learn to function as a team. New people in new positions gotta get used to each other’s levels and abilities. It’ll be interesting! :-))

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Scoots, funny post at 7:25 a.m. Hope you get your stuff done in time to watch the games today….

I forgot who on the blog was pimping Lefty Frizzell a while back, but I was inspired to get a Frizzell CD (gotta admit the collection previously lacked the great man, save for a single song here and there on various country-hits packages).

Anyway, thank you for the inspiration, because the CD is perfect listening on a Sunday morning. That and Jenny Lewis and the Watson Twins “Rabbit Fur Coat” CD from last year.

Fans of Neko Case, Lucinda Williams, etc, who don’t have Jenny Lewis’s CD, should get it or download it or whatever. She’s the singer from Rilo Kiley. On her solo CD (with Watson Twins) they do a killer cover of Traveling Wilburys’ “Handle With Care,” with Matt Ward (M. Ward) producing and providing guest vocals. Ward produced four songs on the CD, and she also got contributions from Ben Gibbard, Conor Oberst and a bunch of other cool folks.

OK, that’s my music rant for the day. Attack if you will, narrow-minded lovers of boring music dreck.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 21, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

For all Mets fans, lets be honest about last season. The Mets should be congratulated for ending the Braves’ streak. They won the division and nothing can change that. However, lets break some things down. These aren’t excuses but simple facts. The Braves lost more games due to injury last season than the three previous seasons. 3/5 of the starting rotation spent more time on the DL than the mound. Three bullpen arms that were going to be heavily counted on spent the entire season on the DL. Despite what anyone here thinks of Reitsma he was hurt and went into the season as unhealthy as unhealthy could be. Giles had nagging injuries all year. Langerhans played 80% of the season with a broken bone in his hand which could have contributed to his offensive problems. Chipper missed over 50 games. McCann missed three weeks. And I actually contribute the real problems beginning when McCann was hurt. If everyone remembers the Braves seemed to be getting it together in Arizona and then when McCann went down it seemed that the wheels fell off. I realized then that this kid was special and had quickly emerged as the heart of the team. Lets not forget that Renteria was on the DL early in the season. The Braves were without Hampton. I still say Hudson was hurt and feeling effects from his oblique injury the year before. Combine all of that with some bad managerial and front office decisions such as Brian Jordan and Todd Pratt being on the team, no closer being acquired, forcing Giles into the leadoff hole when it was obvious from day one that he couldn’t do it (let alone wanted to), and Francoeur being allowed to waste 80% of his spring training sitting on the bench at World Baseball Classic.

These all may sound like excuses but they are viable reasons for the team’s struggles. The Mets on the other hand had everything (almost) go their way. Yes, Pedro was hurt and Delgado had some nagging injuries throughout the season. Cliff Floyd became injured late in the season. But, for the most part the starting rotation stayed in tack even if it wasn’t a great one. Except for Sanchez the bullpen stayed healthy all year. And even when Sanchez became injured the division had for all intents and purposes been won. Robert will like this one. Randolph managed his team perfectly. He knew who to have in the lineup and whom not to have. That was something Cox struggled with last season. The biggest thing of all was the Jose Reyes finally got “it”! He became the player he was capable of being. If the Mets had seen the Reyes of ‘05, they would have had to seriously fight off the Phillies last season and would have fell back to the pack.

Fact is, Minaya was called a genius last year for his offseason moves. This season he looks like JS did last year. He has been unable to get any of the parts he really needs. He did get Alou. But, doesn’t that almost seem like what JS did in acquiring Renteria last year. It was a great move but you knew it wasn’t enough. I know Mets fans don’t want to hear this. But, just like JS lived to regret not addressing the bullpen needs and relying on young inexperienced arms, Minaya is doing the same thing with his starting rotation. And I think just like last season with the Braves, it will come back to haunt the Mets.

Mets fans should also be aware that they are one injury away from big trouble. Like Chipper makes the Braves go, Reyes does the same for the Mets. Mets fans shouldn’t get too cocky because injuries do happen. Just ask the Braves. I can’t remember a team in recent memory who had more injuries to players that were going to be counted on than the Braves did in 2006.

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Jerald, regarding your late-night question about the roster _ no 25-man roster set until just before opening day. it’s just a 40-man roster right now, and from that Braves will likely pick their 25 (occasionally they’ll take a guy who’s not on 40-man, usually an aging veteran invited to spring training to see whether he’s still healthy and/or productive, etc., at which point he’s added to 40-man before opening day roster set.

It’s usually harder for a young non-roster guy to be work himself into a position on the 40-man in spring training, especially if he’s a kid who hasn’t used any options yet, since moving him to the 40-man starts starts his “option clock,” uses the first of his options, and usually forces team to bump someone else from the 40-man (unless the 40-man isn’t full; teams often leave a spot or two on 40 man in case so they can make a trade or add someone to the 40 from among non-roster invitees, etc. But I’m getting way deeper into this explanation than necessary right now, since you didn’t even ask about that.

By Lew

January 21, 2007 01:00 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-Ask and you shall receive. Tim Hudson “I’ve never been so motivated for an off season since I’ve been playing. I’m not taking any time off from the weight room. I’m staying with my workouts, working out all through the off season. I probably could have been stronger this year, but that’s one of my physical goals for the offseason.” (and he wasn’t even injured). Scott Thorman-“I’m very confident at first base, because that’s where I’ve been for years. But I’ve learned left field during the 2006 season. I’ll go either way, but first is where I’m most confident.” Rafael Soriano-” I know fans were worried how I’d pitch after the accident, but I’m back to where I was before.” Kelly Johnson- “I don’t make the decisions about whether I’ll play the outfield or infield. I’ve done both. In terms of hitting, I’ve hit leadoff before. I like hitting at the top of the order and I don’t mind leadoff at all. I just want to get back out there and play. And I’ll be ready.” Mike Hampton- “I’ll be back. I’m going to make it back. I will win 20 games again and you’ll be at the party that we’ll have to celebrate.” There’s your quotes from our biggest question marks, for what they are worth (just like your Delgado quote. I couldn’t find anything specific from Chipper, so you’ll just have to settle fro the fact that in 40 less games, Chipper put up a better average and the same number of HR’s as your supposed superstar David Wright.

By GermanBravesFan

January 21, 2007 01:00 PM | Link to this

Good Morning all! Seems like Metropolitan Man hasn’t taken his reality Meds… Oh well - no need getting into it since one cannot take a Mets fan serious! :-) Try winning the division a few more times and then come back and post here!

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 01:03 PM | Link to this

Grinch, yes, but when the girlfriend talks at those particular times, does it disturb everyone else in the room? …

By ElbravoX

January 21, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this

Given the unanswered questions of The Mets, Braves and Phillies, the wild card of the East is the media. The Braves can get out of the gate slow and the media will be talking Nascar. If the Phillies falter at the start, the media will ask for Manuel’s head. When, not if, but when the Mets are 4 games under 500, Billy Wagner will accuse the management, Delgado will be hiding in the dugout steps, Loduca will be throwing his mask at someone. Glavine will be saying all the right things while counting to ten. Beltran will no comment his way through the season. Reyes and Wright and their new found fortune will be swinging for the fences. The Mets will be the best show in NY, just not on the field. Not a biased opinion whatsoever.

By Lew

January 21, 2007 01:19 PM | Link to this

RJIB-I don’t equate the acquistion of Alou with that of Renteria. Nowhere close to it. JS pulled of a steal and got the Sox to pay a good bit of his salary. MInaya went out and bought a 40+ year old free agent, because he could afford to do it. Not even apples and oranges, Dude. Now the Mets-Last year the Mets pretty much had everything go their way through the regular season. They won games consistently with a sub-par pitching staff. They were able to overcome with timely offense and a great bullpen. However…..The pitcxhing this year is considerably worse, both starting and the pen. The offense may or may not have Career Years again. No one knows. But the Mets are a significantly weaker team. Their rotation is not as strong; Pedro will miss at least half the season and probably more. Glavine is not a number one starter anymore and is incapable of caryying the whole staff. El Duque is of indeterminate age and is a physical question mark. Sosa as a major singing? Dude, you got problems. As far as the raves. WE had everything go WRONG last year. We will not have another 6-23 month (never did before, either), as the reason for said disaster has been dealt with, ie, the bullpen. Hampton, while a question mark, will actually be ready in Spring Training, unlike Pedro. No, Metro Dude, the Mets will not walk away with the division this season. It is doubtful they will even repeat as Division Champs. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

By Lew

January 21, 2007 01:24 PM | Link to this

Grinch-If she’s talking in the middle of things, Dude, you just ain’t doing it right. Good Morning Ma’am. I’m doing fine, but I can’t see worth a damn. I didn’t affect my portrait of BC, though. I almost drew donkey ears on it for Robert, but decided not to. I even drew Wicky’s portrait. Now that’s being a true Braves’ fan.

By Reality Check

January 21, 2007 01:31 PM | Link to this

I think it’s very admirable that after taking many millions of dollars from the Braves in recompense for his many shellings from the opposition, Tim Hudson has really buckled down and is working to get better this year. Great attitude, Huddy!!

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 01:40 PM | Link to this

Hey Robert, you do the math:

Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return 01/03/2007 Mike Gonzalez RP Elbow Probable Expected to be ready for spring training 11/10/2006 Mike Hampton SP Elbow Questionable Hoping to be ready for spring training 10/30/2006 Rafael Soriano RP Concussion Probable Expected to be ready for spring training 10/30/2006 Phil M. Stockman RP Hamstring Probable Expected to be ready for spring training 12/17/06 Blaine Boyer RP Shoulder Probable Expected to be ready for spring training 12/13/06 Kelly Johnson LF Elbow Probable Expected to be ready for spring training 12/21/06 Chris Woodward 2B Shoulder Questionable Surgery Oct. 23. Hoping to be ready for spring training 10/11/06 John Foster RP Elbow Out Out until at least August 01/03/07 Tanyon Sturtze RP Shoulder Doubtful Might not be ready for start of season.

Injuries

Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return 10/30/2006 Steve Schmoll RP Hamstring Probable Expected to be ready for spring training 10/28/2006 Cliff Floyd LF Achilles’ Questionable Surgery Oct. 25. Free agent. Hoping to be ready for spring training 10/28/2006 Aaron Heilman RP Elbow Probable Surgery Oct. 23. Expected to be ready for spring training 10/28/2006 Paul Lo Duca C Thumb Probable Surgery Oct. 23. Expected to be ready for spring training 12/07/06 Guillermo Mota RP Suspension Suspend Out for 50 games 12/19/06 Juan Padilla RP Elbow Questionable Hoping to be ready for spring training 12/13/06 Victor Zambrano SP Elbow Out Free agent. Out until at least June 11/15/06 Orlando Hernandez SP Calf Probable Expecting to be ready for spring training 11/30/06 Pedro Martinez SP Shoulder Out Surgery Oct. 5. Out until at least mid-July 10/31/06 Carlos Delgado 1B Wrist, elbow Probable Surgery Oct. 23, Oct. 30. Expected to be ready for spring training 10/31/06 Yusaku Iriki SP Suspension Suspend Free agent. Out for 50 games 01/12/07 Duaner Sanchez RP Shoulder Probable Expecting to be ready for spring training

Now Robert there is a three player difference on injuries here but you have only 4 that could be considered “Impact Players” while 10 of the 12 METs injuries happended to impact players. My point is as a team, the slack was picked up becasue we have 25 MLB players, not 15 MLB players and 10 minor league guys playing at the big league level before they are ready. And lets not talk about how long they were gone because we all lost guys at critical parts in the season and different return dates. Besides all your facts sounds like excuses.

Lew, were those quotes given to the girls that throw T-shirts at every game??? They said the right things but none of those guys except hampton and hudson can argue a case. The rest of the guys are still trying to get their foot in the door. David Wright is in his 3rd year and you compare him to chumper. Thats not fair but I will guarentee that D. Wright will have better mumbers in his prime than Chumpster and be more liked by his home fans and the media. As a matter of fact I’m going to check the stats of each ones 1st 3 years in the bigs.

By Lew

January 21, 2007 01:55 PM | Link to this

Metro Dude-You can’t spin this in your favor. First of all, basing your opinions on Delgado’s comments are specious at best. That’s why when I quoted the Braves, I said “for what it’s worth.” For your edification, however, the quotes came from Chop Talk magazine and as far as I know, their journalists don’t shoot T shirts to the crowds on game day. Who knows? Maybe they do. Now Wright-When he knocks in 100 Runs for eight straight season, has a career .300 average for over a ten year career, is number 3 ALL TIME on the HR list for switch hitters, is the only switch hitter with a lifetime .300 average and still hits 26 HR despite missing over 50 games, then we can talk about how great Wright is, or isn’t. As far as saying the right things, Dude, was Delgado talking out of the side of his mouth?

By Head Coach

January 21, 2007 01:59 PM | Link to this

Um , Metroman. John foster was released. The Mets still have the most balanced offensive attack in the N.L. They combine speed , power , small ball and the ability to put the ball in play better than any team I saw last season.

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 02:01 PM | Link to this

David wrights 1st 3 years. Stats are: Games, Ab’s, R, H, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, TB, BB, SO, SB, CS, OBP, Slug, and Ave.

2004 NYM 69 263 41 77 17 1 14 40 138 14 40 6 0 .332 .525 .293

2005 NYM 160 575 99 176 42 1 27 102 301 72 113 17 7 .388 .523 .306

2006 154 582 96 181 40 5 26 116 309 66 113 20 5 .381 .531 .311

Now Chippers stats the 1st 3 years not including 1993. Games, AB’s, R, H, 2b, 3b, HR, RBI, K, OBP, Slug.

1995 ATL .265 140 524 87 139 22 3 23 86 73 99 .353 .450 .803

1996 ATL .309 157 598 114 185 32 5 30 110 87 88 .393 .530 .923

1997 ATL .295 157 597 100 176 41 3 21 111 76 88 .371 .479 .850

You guys do the math but looks like Chipster is second fiddle to Wright and the best is yet to come….if you beleive in projected numbers!!!!!

By Richard Cory

January 21, 2007 02:02 PM | Link to this

DOB In regards to 1:03pm post—probably.

By GermanBravesFan

January 21, 2007 02:06 PM | Link to this

Geez, MetropolitanMan… Why so much anger? Shouldn’t you be happy that your team won the NL East last year? Oh, I understand. It’s just one division title in how many years? hmmmm…. I can’t count that far, but it’s been a while! I guess after winning the division last year, Mets fans STILL can’t boast too much - unless they can make it 14 in a row! Let’s talk then…

By journalist jimmy smith

January 21, 2007 02:08 PM | Link to this

wicky’s portrait? oh, the humanity! now, journalist returns to find that lew is being compared to scarlett johannson - not so, lew described lew to this journalist last year so jimmy smith could find lew at spring training. lew is not a pretty man. still, lew is this journalist’s friend and the fact that he looks nothing like scarlett johannson comfortts this journalist. now, for all this jounalist knows carolina lady may look just like scarlett johannson. this journalist must ask baby seal. now, more baseball … who is on first? dob, if the depth chart that appears on the braves official site is not official why is it there on the braves official site? who constructs it and makes the changes? why do the braves allow someone to speculate so on the official site? and who is jonathan johnson? and, is pete orr off to be a mounty? what position did newt gingrich play on the baseball field? has the old journalist ever hunted birds with laroche?

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 02:12 PM | Link to this

Head Coach: I’m trying to tell braves fans that after many years of midiocrity, I can see an unbalanced team in the making and the braves have that again this year. They have strenghts but not a balance attack that will help them against a grueling 162 game season, not this time JS and BC.

By Rosalynn

January 21, 2007 02:28 PM | Link to this

Well, Jimma is just sitting in the den beside himself! What a tough day my Jimma had again yestada. I am gonna ask Jimma to go build some moah habitat houses until things cool down a bit heah. Jimma and I awh thinking about attending spring training and we awh eagah to meet that nice boy. lew. I suah hope that lew is not a cross-dressah. I nevah thought about that until I read about him looking a lot like Scahlett Johannson. I nevah cared for the name Johannson because of how that Ambassadah Johannson from Sweden used to pinch on me everatime we’d see him at the White House. Of coahse, I love the name Scahlett - just like all Southern guhls. I think I’d like to talk a little baseball now. If Adam LaRoche becomes a supastah in Pittsbugh will the Braves evah fohgive themselves foah trading that boy? Fuhman Bisha has an ahticle about that trade in toda’s papuh. Fuhman would not have made that trade.

By Metroplitan Man

January 21, 2007 02:44 PM | Link to this

Have a great one brave bloggers. Just remember how this rivalry keeps the sport of Baseball interesting even in the offseason. Time for the Saints to represent the NFC South and restore order in the NFL. Enjoy the day and see ya at the TED/SHEA!!!!!!!!

By Sugar Water

January 21, 2007 02:48 PM | Link to this

Chipper Jones= Ricky Bobby John Smoltz= Cal Norton JR.

“Shake and Bake”

By KC

January 21, 2007 03:01 PM | Link to this

I’ve been looking at Craig Wilson’s numbers, and have come to this conclusion: Craig Wilson might be the biggest free agent bargain of the winter!

If you are among the critics of the Braves signing of Craig Wilson, you haven’t been paying attention. The more I look at Craig Wilson’s numbers, the harder it is for me to understand why he’s been a part-time player most of his career.

His only opportunity to play everyday came in 2004. That year he hit .264 with 28 homers, 82 RBI, and 35 doubles over 561 at-bats.

Over his career, Wilson has averaged 1 homerun every 19.9 AB’s, and 1 RBI every 6.73 AB’s. If you figure those averages over 550 AB’s, you have 28 homers and 83 RBI… almost exactly what he produced in his only everyday opportunity in 2004.

He does strike out an awful lot, but his .265 career average is not shameful, and… 28 homers, 83 RBI out of the 8th slot in your lineup?? Hell, I’ll take it! He can play LF, 1B, and can even catch in a pinch. All of that for 2 million dollars in this free agent market? Wow… kudos to JS for this pickup.

By KC

January 21, 2007 03:37 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: I have worked in radio for 11 years myself… on-air, programming, production… a little of everything. It’s a good field, but not quite as lucrative as most people think. lol! What station do you program for?

As for the “hopes” list… whether we’re talking about 2B, LF, or RF… we don’t need to get anything more out of those 3 positions than we got last year. There’s no reason to believe that Francoeur, (heading into only his 2nd full season) won’t continue to get better. Craig Wilson and Matt Diaz will give us plenty of offense out of LF, especially for the 8th slot in the order. And can we match Marcus Giles’ lackluster 2005 numbers at 2B? I think we can.

So then, the only thing separating this year’s order from the 2005 lineup that was the best in the NL, is 1B. We’re going from LaRoche to Thorman. Sure, that’s a step down. But it’s not a big enough step to have a drastic impact on this lineup. Everyone in the Braves organization seems to wholeheartedly believe that we can look for at least 20-25 homers and 70-75 RBI from Thorman (or a Thorman/Wilson platoon, if that’s the case) this season. That’s a net loss of about 10 homers and 15-20 RBI. Sorry, but that’s not going to cripple this lineup.

My point Ron, is that you simply cannot point to the Braves lineup as a potential weakness. It won’t be… period. The team will as or almost as good offensively as it was last year, which means the Braves will finish among the top 3 or 4 teams in the league in runs scored. There is absolutely NO reason under the sun to question whether or not the Braves will score enough runs to win this year. There just isn’t. So you can officially scratch anything having to do with the Braves’ lineup from your “hopes” list.

IT’S ALL ABOUT THE PITCHING!!!!!

We all know that this is hands down the best looking bullpen in the NL. There can be no intelligent argument to that. So Atlanta will have the top bullpen, and one of the best offenses in the NL. That’s exactly how the Mets won last year, isn’t it?

As for the rotation, there is no reason at all to doubt Chuck James, and even less reason to doubt John Smoltz. Smoltz hasn’t shown any signs of slowing, and hasn’t had any arm trouble in years (and no structural arm trouble of any kind since the Tommy John surgery).

The ONLY “hopes” or question marks - or whatever you want to call them – on this team that anyone really needs to pay attention to… are Mike Hampton and Tim Hudson. I think the odds are in the Braves favor with both of these guys, but it’s not unfair to hang some kind of question mark over them.

If Hudson and/or Hampton come through, the Braves will have one of the best rotations in the league and will be very legitimate World Series contenders. If not… the Braves will head into October in a very similar situation as the 06 Mets.

By KC

January 21, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this

Metro Man: In what respect are the Braves unbalanced??

By KC

January 21, 2007 04:07 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: I have worked in radio for 11 years myself… on-air, programming, production… a little of everything. It’s a good field, but not quite as lucrative as most people think. lol! What station do you program for? Is there a job there for me? Can you help out an old blog buddy? I need work and I need a friend. I work pretty cheap and I don’t drink much anymore.

By KC

January 21, 2007 04:46 PM | Link to this

There is a wise-guy among us. I didn’t make the 4:07 post.

By Ron Roberts

January 21, 2007 05:19 PM | Link to this

KC, email me, bro. roninmobile@yahoo.com

Now, let’s talk baseball….

You’re far more certain about our offense than I’m going to be, and here’s why…

Without question, the Braves struggle mightily without Chipper in the lineup. Take away LaRoche (who stepped up when Chipper was out a good bit of the 2nd half of 2006), and we’re looking at a lineup that’ll look a lot like:

1. Kelly Johnson/2B not proven

2. Edgar Renteria/SS

3. Matt Diaz or Ryan Langerhans/LF Langy’s been shaky awhile now, offensivfely

4. Andruw Jones/CF

5. Jeff Francoeur/RF streaky striker-outer

6. Brian McCann/C

7. Scott Thorman or Craig Wilson rook or high strikeout average? Name your poison

8. Aybar/3B the Braves consider him a fill-in platoon guy.

9. Pitcher.

Granted, if everybody’s doing what they’re capable of doing, this lineup would be fine, but c’mon, when does everybody in a lineup do what they’re capable of? That’s what makes losing LaRoche look scary; when Chip was out in ‘05, Andruw stepped up and took on an offensive leadership role. When we needed more of a spark the 2nd half of ‘05, Francoeur came up and lit it up. Renteria and McCann are about as consistent as hitters can be for us, but they’re not team-carriers. We’re less prepared for a duration w/out Chipper now than we were before this deal, in my opinion.

That’s what worries me about the offensive loss I think we’ll feel without LaRoche.

Add to that the legitimate concerns about Hudson being able to bounce back froma sub-par 2006, and Mike Hampton’s ability to come back from such a proonged DL stint (40% of the rotation, after all….)… and I think there are enough concerns about this roster to question it’s playoff potential.

I question, I doubt, I don’t say no way. I say, not World Series-worthy on paper right now. Just my opinion.

By TennesseePaul

January 21, 2007 05:51 PM | Link to this

Delgado is rehabbing and by his own admission will be better than ever
Now that wasn’t what I read. I read he admitted to being in the worst shape of his life. “Don’t even think I can make it up the dugout steps without passing out.” Said his tendons had evaporated. Lost cartalige in all his joints. It didn’t sound good at all. Just one slip away from permanent vegetation.

By Porkins

January 21, 2007 06:05 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Good call on Jenny Lewis. One of my favorite albums from last year. Just timeless, classic music that will be just as good 20 years from now.

Do you think A&E will ever make a DVD collection for the Braves? So far they’ve spanned a lot of years, from the Pirates and Reds from the 70s, to the 2005 White Sox. It would be great to have have some full 1990s games on DVD.

By KC

January 21, 2007 06:12 PM | Link to this

Ron:

As for your projected lineup… I’m sure they’re going to keep McCann in the 5th slot and Francoeur in the 6th slot just as last year. Also, if/when Chipper’s out of the lineup for anything more than one game, rest assured that neither Diaz or Langerhanz will be the 3rd hitter in this lineup. Also, according to JS, Craig Wilson was acquired more to play LF and pinch hit than he was for 1B (though I’m sure they view him as an insurance policy at first in case Thorman disappoints). They believe in Thorman, and want to give him a chance to play everyday. That was a big reason why they were willing to deal LaRoche (for the right return).

As for MaCann, I certainly wouldn’t say that he’s not capable of being a game changer. We all know about the .333 average, but did you notice that he hit 18 homers and drove in 64 runs after the all-star break (in 238 AB’s)? For a young guy like that who was in his first full major league season, I think a second half like that could very well be an indicator of what to expect all of the following year. But his season as a whole was pretty damned good.

McCann only had 442 AB’s last year. Project his numbers out to a full 550 AB’s, and here’s what you’ve got: 30 HR. 116 RBI, 43 doubles

Project his second-half numbers out to 550 AB’s: 42 HR, 150 RBI, 43 doubles

All of that while playing the most demanding position on the team day in and day out?! The kid’s a natural. He’s as much of a “team-carrier” as anyone in this lineup.

Again, the only thing that has happened to diminish this lineup to any degree worth mentioning was the Pittsburgh trade. I mean common man… you keep talking about guys like Francoeur being a question mark, but he’s not from where I’m standing. Nor is LF or 2B a question mark (it’s not like Giles was tearing it up last year). If we get the same combined production from LF and 2B as last year… then nothing outside of 1B has really changed.

While the Braves’ lineup will certainly feel his absence… it did not affect the middle of this order in any way (since he didn’t hit there), and we’re probably only talking about a net loss of 5-10 Homers and 10-20 RBI (going from LaRoche to Thorman). We may not be the best offensive team in the league again, but we’ll definitely be one of the top 3 or 4.

And ultimately, we just became a far more balanced team. We gave up a little of our greatest strength (offense) to fix our greatest weakness. I’m sure I haven’t done anything to change your mind. We’re both far too opinionated for that! (lol) But, I’m always open to a friendly wager. =)

By Jim M.

January 21, 2007 06:18 PM | Link to this

Okay, first this trade sucked it up. Then, looking back at the numbers, the bullpen blew 29 saves last year. A decent bullpen will blow 5 max. You add 24 wins to the Braves total, that’s over a hundred. You take LaRoche’s homers and RBI’s away and lose a couple more we are just under a hundred, and win the division. BRAVES WIN OVER 95 GAMES IN 2007!

By Wayne in UT

January 21, 2007 06:30 PM | Link to this

Rosalynn Hey, out of boredom, I read the Furman Bisher article from late Friday night also. It is my strong opinion that you and “Jimma” should invite him over so he can sit in one of “Jimmas” easy chairs for a few hours (or days). It is obvious he knows very little about the Atlanta Braves. While I respect anyones opinion (yes, even that Met Fan Dude), Mr. Bisher seems out of touch.

Maybe he should cover high school tennis.

(RJITB) Here’s a trade proposal for you (based only in my feeble mind, with no fact or rumors to back it up): Escobar and Davies for Melky Cabrera. We could substitute Salty if necessary, or Devine for Davies. I really liked this kid Cabrera’s first year number, and he is young, I think 21 or 22.

By Wayne in UT

January 21, 2007 06:38 PM | Link to this

Possible OF candidates that might be available: Melky Cabrera, Ryan Church, Scott Podsednick, Chone Figgins, Brian Anderson. Not sure I like too many of these guys. Church has had his moments? Cabrera is the keeper in this lot.

JS will probably forgo any of these, unless he can get Figgins or Cabrera without breaking up the pitching mix too much.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 21, 2007 06:57 PM | Link to this

Wayne, I think the Yankees would take that deal simply because Cashman has committed to restocking the farm system. Especially with pitching.

By Ron Roberts

January 21, 2007 07:20 PM | Link to this

KC

You’re far more confident in Francoeur’s ability to limit his strikeouts and up his batting average than I am, then.

I never questioned NcCann, either, so bringing up his stats is sort of irrelevant to our discussion. Projecting stats is a shell game… you can take anybody’s stats over a certain period of time, project ‘em over a season, and make ‘em look great.

Heck, I went 4-for-4 with 2 homers, a double, a single, 4 RBI and a stolen base once. Porject that over the entire jr. high school season and they’d have been writing stories about me in the sports section. Truth was I was a backup right fielder and starting pitcher when my spot in the rotation came up. I also only hit .286 with 3 HR and 9 RBI all season (30 games).

My projected lineup was as much a crap shoot as it would (or will) be if/when Chipper Jones goes down with his annual DL stint. Bobby Cox used how many different lineups last season? They used to toss that stat up on the screen last season, but I never jotted it down. I know it was a high number, though.

If Diaz plays LF, I’d have him bat 3rd when Chipper’s out, personally. But we’re talking about a guy who was good utility player (who, in all fairness, I’d like to see get an everyday shot, coming out of spring training) in a key spot in the lineup. But hey, if they don’t use him at the 3 hole when Chipper’s out, then who do they use?

The options are limited if McCann stays at 5, Francoeur at 6, right?

That leaves Aybar or Thorman/C.Wilson, right?

Also, you said earlier you think Craig Wilson could be the free agent deal of the offseason at $2 million, right?

C’mon buddy… or $1.8 million more, we’d have kept more sound defense and (hard to believe it’s possible) a lower strikeout/AB ratio.

I’ll concede there are positive ways to look at this team, but you have to concede there are indeed questions when it comes to depth and the ability to overcome the seemingly inevitable nagging injuries that’ll come up throughout the season.

I’ll give you this… if Chipper plays an injury-free 150 games this season, and brings us what he averages this season, we’ll be fine, offensively w/out LaRoche.

But when was Chipper’s last injury-free season? The LaRoche trae put all the focus back on a healthy Chipper Jones when before he was more of a luxury than a necessity to our offense.

I’ll not change my mind in thinking that we went a little overboard with the bullpen-building when it might cost us some offensive potency and infiled glove-ability.

By AdirondackDave

January 21, 2007 07:54 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB and all other folks —- I have a couple questions that are churning around in my brain.

First, with the big three leading this exceptional bullpen it appears as though we have about 6-7 other major league guys (good down to adequate) competing for the other 4 slots. My question is what happens to the 2-3 extra guys when Bobby has to cut to 25? Are they trade bait, sent down, or ??

Second, Langy is clearly an exceptional defensive outfielder on a pitching-oriented team that values defense. Not being located near Atlanta, I can’t watch and evaluate his offensive potential. Does he seem likely to more or less remain at his current level with the bat or do you see physical skills and talent there that is likely to develop into a significant offensive asset? Man, it seems like his defensive skills are a shame to waste on the bench.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 21, 2007 08:09 PM | Link to this

where is lew? missing ever since the rumors began … perhaps lew will explain his absence from this blog.

now, batting diaz third … just for the sake of argument - say betemit was still a brave … where would he bat? where would betemit play (too big for second base, right?).

and this from the dodgers’ website: Furcal proved to be a bargain, as he shook off early season nagging injuries and a spate of errors to emerge as the most consistent offensive player on the team. He hit .300, provided significant power leading off with 15 homers and scored 113 runs, the most for a Dodgers leadoff hitter since Maury Wills (130) in 1962. oh, the humanity!

toes in the news: cardinals center fielder jim edmonds has undergone a procedure in Charlotte, N.C., to correct a “hammer toe” condition of the second toe on his left foot.

toes are not to be trifled with.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 21, 2007 08:17 PM | Link to this

and did hank aaron suffer from hammer toe?

By Classic Country

January 21, 2007 08:25 PM | Link to this

Hey, DOB, which Lefty Frizell CD did you purchase? Glad you filled that gaping hole in your collection!

By Lew

January 21, 2007 08:28 PM | Link to this

Esteemed Journalist-I was here earlier today slinging mud with Metro Dude, who is very delusional this offseason. I have been doing portraits of Chuck James and Wicky for Spring Training. It will be nice to be anonymous at Spring Training. Everyone apparently is expecting to see Scarlet Johannsen. They will never see me slip right on past. Grinch really must get out more and stop using those wierd substances. His imagination becoming dangerous.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 21, 2007 09:04 PM | Link to this

that’s okay, lew. journalist knows who to look for at spring training. lew should be easy to spot - don’t think grinch uses an easel.

any news on james brown? buried yet?

By br618

January 21, 2007 09:10 PM | Link to this

got to keep langerhans in case andruw leaves

By David O'Brien

January 21, 2007 09:15 PM | Link to this

Adirondack, too early to know what’ll happen. A pitcher or two could get hurt (like last spring), or stink it up in spring. But I’d imagine one or two could be traded, since can’t send ‘em all to Richmond….

Langerhans has only had two seasons in the majors, and showed plenty of offensive promise as a rookie. I’ve got a feeling Braves want to keep him, because he has potential to be a solid player for a long time. At worst, I’d think he’d be a fine fourth outfielder for someone because of his great defense….

Jim M, where did you get the idea that a decent bullpen only blows five saves? The fewest blown saves in the NL last season was the Mets’ 15 blown in 58 opportunities. Eleven of 16 NL teams blew at least 21 saves….

Classic Country, it’s a greatest hits thing, 16 songs.

By Tomahawkin

January 21, 2007 09:29 PM | Link to this

Newsflash, Folks, I heard word of Mouf that Linda Cohn is a die Hard NY Fan…No wonder she is so biased towards the mutts and yankees

D.O.B. U should’ve come by the Boom Boom Room last nite, you would’ve had yoself some big fun, lol….

By Lew

January 21, 2007 09:43 PM | Link to this

DOB-Good article on Kelly Johnson. I don’t expect there to be any problems with his conversion to second. He seems like a good athlete and Hubbard is apparently one of the best teachers. I ordered a copy of the Sadies Live, vol. one from Amazon. Anything that has members of The Band on it has to be good. I still listen to Up on Cripple Creek and Jemimah Surrender all the time. See the man with the stage fright.

By Bryan

January 21, 2007 09:50 PM | Link to this

also on the blown saves… you can blow a save and still win the game - which might confuse some folks.

Dave, what was the team with the fewest bullpen losses? Or the closer with the least amount of L’s

By Tomahawkin

January 21, 2007 09:57 PM | Link to this

As for the roster…I don’t speculate on dese things because as Skip Carey puts it best, the roster in September won’t resemble anything that it looks like now, more-so since this is A. Jones last Year in the “A”

By TLJ

January 21, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

I think Langerhans would be a decent replacement for AJ if he leaves. Arizonia has a lot of young and talented outfielders. Their # 2 prospect Chris Young according to Baseball America’s prospect handbook is a 5 tool player, plays center field and is ready for the majors.

They are short on catching prospects. Maybe the Braves should look into swapping Salty for Chris Young. This might actually help both clubs without giving up any pitching.

By TLJ

January 21, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Guys,

I was worried about defense on the right side of our infield and then remembered the mets won the division with Delgado at first and valentin at second. Neither one of these guys will ever be confused with a good defensive player.

The only reason Delgado plays in the field is because the mets are in the NL, otherwise he is a DH. Valentin was signed to play off their bench and became their second baseman by default.

I think Thorman and KJ will do ok on defense compared to the mets combo.

By Mutt Jones

January 21, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

A spectator was surprised to see Chipper’s dog walk to the mound and strike out the side.

‘That’s incredible!’ he exclaimed to the man next to him.

‘Yes,’ he said, ‘but he’s a terrible disappointment to Chipper. Chipper wanted him to play third.’

By David O'Brien

January 22, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

On the blown saves _ imagine where the Braves would’ve been if they’d just had 20 to 22, like most other NL teams? Not to mention if they’d had only 15 like the Mets, instead of 29. And remember, most of them happened before Wickman got here, so for four-fifths of the season they were blowing far more than any other NL team….

T-Hawkin, where the hell’s the Boom Boom Room? I’ve been to the one in San Francisco, named for its late owner, blues legend John Lee Hooker. He used to hang out there and play there before he died….

Everyone should have a copy of the Sadies Live, Vol I, Lew. Glad you’re taking the recommendation, because it’s phenomenal. The version of Evangeline, with Garth Hudson sitting in with the Sadies and Neko Case singing, is just jaw-droppingly good.

It’s two CDs of the most eclectic mix of rock, blues-rock, country-rock, bluegrass and everything in-between. Just an awesome set. Those boys in the Sadies are awful good players, and when they add all these other people sitting in on so many numbers, it’s just incredible.

By Robert

January 22, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

“Okay, first this trade sucked it up. Then, looking back at the numbers, the bullpen blew 29 saves last year. A decent bullpen will blow 5 max.”

El Burro take care of blowing the other 24 - ( a game a week - that’s EASY for him)

By D Rock in Scotland

January 22, 2007 03:13 AM | Link to this

I can vouch for the Sadies as well. Outstanding. I’m a fan of “Memphis, Ebypt” as well.

I’m jealous you got to hear Ron Sexsmith this week DoB, I’ve been wearing out his new album. Nice piece on Kelly Johnson by the way. Bobby Cox really stands out in my view, when you think about what he can get out of the young bucks. I’d expect KJ to thrive this year.

By Reality Check

January 22, 2007 03:47 AM | Link to this

DOB, put on your new CD and listen to Lefty sing

I’d steal a newsboy’s dime For a small glass of wine

in “How Far Down Can I Go” and tell me it doesn’t convey every bit of the hopelessness, alienation and despair that Johnny Cash’s “Hurt” does.

And this might not even be the best moment on the album. Not with masterpieces like “I Never Go Around Mirrors” and “The Long Black Veil” (recorded the very day it was written — difficult to believe Lefty could give it such a deep, sensitive, brilliant rendering with practically no rehearsal) to choose from.

I predict you’ll be shelling out for the 12-CD box set “Life’s Like Poetry” before too long. You just can’t deny the power of Lefty Frizzell.

Hell, I’m gonna go listen right now. There’ll be time enough for sleep one day.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 22, 2007 06:12 AM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man: Read your synopsis of the Braves chances in the upcoming season and was amused by it. I love it when fans of other teams are so worried about someone else that they try to convince themselves that all is right in the Met kingdom, even though they know deep down inside that that is not the case. Sure, the Braves have question marks. But the Mets, you can’t qualify their starting pitching as a question mark. They are a glaring problem, and you as well as the entire Met world know that your reign as division champs will be short-lived. 2007 is gonna be a sweet year for the Braves when we take back what is rightfully ours.

By Jerald Holcombe

January 22, 2007 08:01 AM | Link to this

DOB: I’ll join the rest in saying that the article on Kelly Johnson was a nice piece of reporting. I feel so stoked about this season. Normally, I’m not a very optimistic person, but I am very hopeful that both Johnson and Thorman will hold up their end on the right side of the diamond.

By Gen Neyland

January 22, 2007 09:33 AM | Link to this

Here’s to hoping the Braves can produce enough runs to put the bullpen into play on a positive sense. If not, well, they sure look good on paper…

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 09:38 AM | Link to this

Ron Roberts and KC,

Some ramblings about Francouer and strikeouts…

Francouer doesn’t need to cut down his strikeouts, necessarily. He just needs to stop getting himself out on bad pitches. If a hitter strikes out on good pitches, it’s not too much of a concern. But Francouer swings at everything and would-be walks or hits become strikeouts; that’s his problem.

If he is going to continue to swing at everything, he needs to cut down his strikeouts, yes; and he needs to learn how to hit bad pitches hard.

Francouer hasn’t shown an ability to be a bad-ball hitter so it looks like he’s going to continue to strikeout a lot. So the best solution is for him to improve his batting eye—i.e., not strikeout or make outs on pitches out of the strikezone.

He started to lay off bad pitches toward the end of last season, so he’s very promising.

Someone brought up Ortiz and Ramirez, and they are good examples for Francouer to follow. Both strikeout a lot, but also hit for a lot of power and walk a lot. They limit the times they swing at bad pitches, and swing hard at pitches within the strikezone in case they hit them—and they usually do…very far.

To stay in the majors for a long time, there is a certain threshold for how often you make outs. A player can go below this threshold a little if he’s awesome at defense or is primarily a pinch-runner but to have staying power, a position player has to limit his outs to a certain level.

There are several ways to reduce outs. The most common way to stay in the bigs for a long time nowadays is to avoid swinging at bad pitches as often as possible and swing hard at pitches in the strikezone in case you hit them. There are a few hitters who have stayed because they just can hit bad pitches where they want to and leg out hits or can hit bad pitches really hard past fielders (Vlad Guerrero, Ichiro are the most common examples).

Francouer hasn’t shown an ability so far to be a Guerrerro or an Ichiro. He’s going to have to take the avoid swinging at bad pitches as often as possible and swing hard at pitches in the strikezone in case you hit them approach.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Scott Thorman or Craig Wilson rook or high strikeout average? Name your poison

…

Also, you said earlier you think Craig Wilson could be the free agent deal of the offseason at $2 million, right?

C’mon buddy… or $1.8 million more, we’d have kept more sound defense and (hard to believe it’s possible) a lower strikeout/AB ratio.

Why is everyone so obsessed with strikeouts all of the sudden? Wilson is a good player in spite of his high strikeout rate because of a low out rate (.354 career OBP/.646 Out Percentage). True, a lot of his outs come via the strikeout but he doesn’t make outs at as high a rate as many major leaguers.

Again, a lot of teams that make a lot of their outs via the strikeout still score a lot of runs because they don’t make outs at the rate that most other teams make outs.

Out Rate has a much stronger relationship to run scoring than Contact Rate or Strikeout Rate; actually Contact Rate or Strikeout Rate have almost no relationship to Run Scoring. In fact, a lot of times throughout baseball history, the teams that scored the most runs also made the least contact or struck out the most.

By Arkansas Budweiser-Drinking Hillbilly

January 22, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

My feelings are hurt……

By StingerSplash

January 22, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Despite my misgivings about trading LaRoche (good power to all fields and terrific fielder but prone to swinging and missing and has a slow bat) and the fact the Braves have yet to really address the gaping hole atop the lineup — and what now for the pride of Sylvania, Macay McBride, with Gonzalez in the fold — let me throw a little Mike Cooley your way, D O’B, to go along with the immensely talented Jason Isbell: I got 350 heads on a 305 engine I get 10 miles to the gallon I ain’t go no good intentions.

By KC

January 22, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Ron Roberts:

You said: “I never questioned NcCann, either, so bringing up his stats is sort of irrelevant to our discussion.”

before that you said: “Renteria and McCann are about as consistent as hitters can be for us, but they’re not team-carriers.”

You questioned whether or not McCann was a “team-carrier”. I say he certainly can be.

And I didn’t project McCann’s numbers as if to say that he would have hit those numbers if he had 550 AB’s (though it’s not hard to imagine that)… I was simply using those projections to put his season totals in context, and point out exactly how good he was last season in the at-bats he did have.

“You’re far more confident in Francoeur’s ability to limit his strikeouts and up his batting average than I am”

I’m not looking for anything more out or Francoeur (or 2B or LF) than the same production we got last year. If we can get about the same offense everywhere other than 1B, then with Thorman picking up some of the slack at first… The Braves will be almost as good offensively as they were last year. “Also, you said earlier you think Craig Wilson could be the free agent deal of the offseason at $2 million, right? C’mon buddy… or $1.8 million more, we’d have kept more sound defense and (hard to believe it’s possible) a lower strikeout/AB ratio.” If you take Wilson’s career power/RBI numbers, and average them over 550 at-bats, you’ll have 28 homers and 83 RBI. That’s almost exactly what he produced in his only season as an everyday player (2004). 28 homers and 83 RBI from the 8th slot in the order??!! I’ll take it! His career .265 average isn’t shameful, and this guy plays LF, 1B, and can even catch in a pinch. He’ll play LF, and provide an insurance policy at 1B in case Thorman doesn’t pan out as well as it’s believed he will. “I’ll not change my mind in thinking that we went a little overboard with the bullpen-building when it might cost us some offensive potency and infiled glove-ability.” I understand where you’re coming from, but two things… first of all, this is not a trade that’s just about this year. Not only will the Braves have the best bullpen in MLB this year, but now they have the option of letting Wickman walk after this season, freeing up 6.5 million to use elsewhere (such as in an effort to re-sign Smoltz and/or Andruw next winter). Also, while LaRoche is a significant loss to the lineup, the Braves became a much more well balanced team this winter. They traded from their strength (offense), in order to bolster what had been their greatest weakness last year… pitching (particularly the bullpen). Again, ultimately you can’t tell me that a net loss of 5-10 homers, and 15-20 RBI (going from LaRoche to Thorman) is going to take the Braves from best offensive team in the league to weaklings… or even middle-of-the-pack offensively. They will still be one of the better offensive teams in the league next year. Only now, you can look for them to finish at least in the top 3 or 4 in the league in team ERA. That is definitely an overall improvement.

By Reality Check

January 22, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Memo to Shaun: You’re wasting your life.

By KC

January 22, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Shaun: Agreed.

First of all, one thing I would like to say to all the Francoeur critics… IT WAS HIS FIRST SEASON AT THE BIG LEAGUE LEVEL FOR CRYIN’ OUT LOUD!!! Yes, I realize that some guys come up (like a A.Pujols) and are MVP caliber immediately. But most (even most of the great ones, if you look up some random HOF career numbers) dont. Francoeur will get better with time. I suspect that he’ll probably have a better season this year than he did the last… and the same the following year.

Did anyone else notice that he seemed much more patient at the plate late in the season?

But in the end, if he does… if just does exactly what he did last year, he’ll be an asset.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Memo to Shaun: You’re wasting your life.

It’s not a waste to open up people to the truth.

By Disciple of the Rev. Shaun

January 22, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Amen, Brother Shaun!

Gotta go now. Time for Star Trek.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

KC,

Agree with everything except the last part of the last sentence. If Francouer makes an out in over 70 percent of his plate appearances as he did last year, he will not be an asset.

But I think he showed enough of an improvement at the end of last season and he’s going to become a good player if not a star. As you said, he’s still 4, 5, 6 years from his prime.

By Head Coach

January 22, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Agreed about Francoeur. His 2006 season was in retrospect , fairly brutal. He accounted for 474 outs in 651 AB’s. Of his 169 hits 110 were singles and 59 were extra base hits. A .260 AVG .293 OBP .449 SLG and last but not least a .742 OPS . I expect much better numbers out of him this season.

By Richard Cory

January 22, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Grinch Was it just me, or did the Patriot wr. Caldwell, have the most extreme “deer in the headlights” look you’ve ever seen? After his two ‘drops’ he definitely had ‘eyes wide open’. Matter of fact, last time I saw eyes that large, was when Joey Heatherton was doing a dance for the ‘boys in the jungle’ as part of a USO tour. Also, must be a dilemma for a Dawg man, such as yourself, as to who to root for in Super Bowl. One team led by a former Gator QB and the other by a former Tenn. QB. So I’ll just ask, who do you think, is going to win? :]

By Ron Roberts

January 22, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

1. It was Francoeur’s first full season in the majors, not first total.

2. If you want to pro-rate Craig Wilson’s power numbers, please also pro-rate his strikeouts.

3. All this talk about the future of the Braves’ bullpen with Soriano and Gonzales… aren’t these guys just signed to one-year deals? I mean, hey, if we got ‘em for 2-3 years, terrific; I still think trading for both was overkill at the expense of the team’s offensive potency.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

If you want to pro-rate Craig Wilson’s power numbers, please also pro-rate his strikeouts.

If Wilson has to play everyday, he’s likely an average to slightly below average player. But as a platoon player/backup/spot starter/pinch-hitter, he’s fine. He’s probably not as good as he was in 2004 when he hit .264 AVG/.354 OBP/.499 SLG but he’s a good player.

And have you been paying attention to the strikeout argument—how often a hitter makes outs is much much more important than how he makes outs. The teams that strikeout a lot are often the teams that score a lot of runs—you can look it up!

By ncscoots

January 22, 2007 01:14 PM | Link to this

wow. One blogger tells another he is “wasting his life”. Does no one else see the (unintended) humor there?

Ron, both Soriano and Gonzalez are only arbitration-eligible. Can’t remember the exacts, but think it’s the first year for both (other posters can correct me on that if it’s wrong), so they would be under club control for this year and two more.

Stinger, McBride looks to get as much work as he would have prior to Gonzalez. It’s hard for me to see BC using Gonzalez as a situational lefty, thus losing his services for the late innings. But who knows how they are going to set up roles for the bullpen? In any event, McBride looks to get mucho innings if he’s the only other lefty in the pen. Maybe TOO many.

By Ron Roberts

January 22, 2007 01:14 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Players who ground out fan move runners over; players who fly out can move runners over or in, as well, all while getting out.

A guy who strikes out does neither. And at nearly $2 million on a team with a set payroll where four guys eat up half of it, every dime’s valuable.

By michael

January 22, 2007 01:20 PM | Link to this

It’s worth noting that Francoeur’s 1st full season didn’t include a normal spring training,thanks to the WBC. He didn’t get many at bats and it clearly showed during the 1st month or so of the season.

By RotoRob

January 22, 2007 01:22 PM | Link to this

Hey fellow Braves fans. I just released my 2007 fantasy rankings, and Brian McCann is number two among catchers. I thought you might be interested:

[http://www.rotorob.com/baseball/2007-catcher-rankings/]

Cheers

R ‘n B [www.RotoRob.com] Daily fantasy sports analysis with an edge

By Lew

January 22, 2007 01:24 PM | Link to this

RonRoberts-We have Soriano and Gonzalez for three years.

By Ron Roberts

January 22, 2007 01:34 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Lew….wasn’t sure, myself. Googled the hell out of the internet and all I got was a site that showed them as 1 year deals.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 01:36 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts,

It’s all situational: sometimes strikeouts are better than contact outs, sometimes there worse, sometimes they’re the same. Again, I ask this question: if contact is so important to run production, why do teams that strikeout a lot often score a lot of runs? How did the most prolific offensive team in history (according to runs scored) lead their league in strikeouts? Is it possible that how you make outs isn’t that important at all, but how often you make outs is very important?

Think about offense in terms of defense. The goal on defense is to make three outs as quickly as possible because it’s impossible for the other team to score if you retire all their hitters. Doesn’t it follow that on offense you primary goal should be to avoid outs for as long as possible. I know advancing around the bases is very important, also, but first and foremost you want to avoid outs. You can’t score without avoiding outs; and the more often you avoid outs, the more you’re going to score.

But aside from all that, look at the facts: teams that strikeout a lot often score plenty of runs. The 2004 Red Sox scored 949 runs, most in the AL. They also had four regulars who struck out over 100 times and another who struck out 91 times. Their two best hitters struck out 257 times. They struck out over 7 times a game. But they also only made outs in 64 percent of their plate appearances, best in the league.

By DonCoburleone

January 22, 2007 01:39 PM | Link to this

What’s up everybody? Did everybody have a good weekend? What a football game yesterday huh? My god, Manning finally beat the Patriots… but it will all mean nothing if he can’t finish the job and win the Super Bowl. What a freakin’ game though! I like to think I am a baseball fan first, football fan second… However, with games like the one last night I almost have to admit to myself that football is ahead of baseball in my book. One thing for sure, there is no way in hell I can EVER be as into a baseball game where I have no vested interest (my favorite team isn’t playing) than I was with the Pats/Colts game last night. Even Game 7 of Mets/Cards this past year didn’t compare to that game last night… I do however consider the NFL season over now. So much Super Bowl hype and lack of a home field really waters down what is supposed to be the biggest game in American sports. I am actually looking more forward to opening day in MLB, start of playoff hockey, and the NFL draft than I am the Super Bowl. But, anyway, I guess I want to ask people on this blog (including you DOB), where do the 4 majors (and I still consider NHL 1 of the big 4) rank in your guys book? Right now, I would rank it football 1, baseball 2, hockey 3, and basketball 4…

By Hammy the Brave

January 22, 2007 01:49 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Don’t you think the Braves should consider signing Bruce Chen and Dimitri Young to minor league contracts? Then they’d have a little more rotation depth and a veteran lefty power bat for the bench.

By DonCoburleone

January 22, 2007 02:01 PM | Link to this

Hammy, believe me when I tell you, the Braves are without question not going to sign any other free agents this offseason… Their payroll is either right at or over $80mil right now…

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 02:02 PM | Link to this

From the best I can tell the Seattle Mariners put the ball in play most often in 2006—3862 times. They scored the 2nd fewest runs in the bigs. If such good things happen when you put the ball in play, why weren’t the M’s at least in the top half of the league in runs scored?

By Jim

January 22, 2007 02:04 PM | Link to this

TLJ — The Young for Salty trade you suggest was also one that Baseball America speculated about last season in minor league deals of prospects that would help both teams. (The Yankees will need a catcher in a few years and also might be interested in a M. Cabrera for Salty swap.)

About K. Johnson hitting leadoff — My only concern here is whether or not KJ can play second base. Unlike the overly aggressive Giles, what I have seen of KJ is that he has a good eye and good plate discipline. His OBP should be OK and he doesn’t have to change his game at all to bat leadoff. He is not a big SB threat, but he has better than ave speed and with a good OBP should be at least adequate batting leadoff.

Finally, when if ever will TW sell the team??? Will it actually occur before the end of the Bush admin.? Is it even remotely likely that there will be new ownership BEFORE Andruw’s free agency occurs?

By TennesseePaul

January 22, 2007 02:12 PM | Link to this

Francoeur hasn’t shown an ability to be a bad-ball hitter

Bad ball or Mistake pitch? He can hit both. Against the Marlins last year. Dontrel Willis was pitching. Braves were down. I think 2 on. Willis threw a piece of junk up there. It was 2 feet out side and about 3 inches off the ground. Francoeur cranked it out of the park. It went over 400 feet. Willis was shocked. He just looked at him in disbelief. In Francoeur’s first half season in 2005, against the Phillies I think it was, the pitcher tossed him one inside. Way inside. It would have hit him had he not swung. Instead he swung and cranked it out of the park. Afterwards the pitcher said: “They told me he couldn’t hit the inside pitch. I guess they were wrong.”
Francoeur can hit bad pitches. He just isn’t consistent with it. Hence the high amount of K’s. It’s nice to see him hit the junk out, but at the same time, if he lays off all that junk he does two things: improves his OBP and forces the pitcher to pitch the ball in the zone, where he has a better shot at hitting it out more consistently. He doesn’t have to K that much to be a power hitter either. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this offensive approach: Try to improve on the K/BB ratio. If Francoeur can improve on that, it will only make him better. That goes for every single batter. Including Ryan Howard and Craig Wilson. And as Ron Roberts pointed out, and I pointed out, and many others pointed out, a ball in play has a high probability of not being an out than a strikeout. And it is a safe, general assumption to want to hit the ball in play as opposed to striking out. A ball in play is a more productive out than a K (generally speaking). The strikeout creates an out and that’s it. It also instills confidence in the pitcher, which isn’t a good game strategy.

By KC

January 22, 2007 02:20 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts: Craig Wilson strikes out a bunch. No doubt about it. But come on dude, we’re talking about close to 30 HR’s and over 80 RBI (if this guy were to play everyday)… FROM YOUR NUMBER 8 HITTER!!!!! And his .265 career average is not shameful, particularly for the bottom of the order.

Again, this guy plays everywhere we could possibly need him to… 1st or LF, and he can even catch. At 2 million dollars, this guy was a steal.

Actually, with the addition of Wilson… our combined 1B and LF power/RBI numbers probably won’t be far off from what they were last year. The batting average will go down some, but the run production will still be comparable.

By JasonInMaine

January 22, 2007 02:26 PM | Link to this

Soriano and Gonzalez are under are control for three more years, but both have 1 year contracts.

By David O'Brien

January 22, 2007 02:31 PM | Link to this

Stinger, LaRoche may be slow afoot, and may appear slow in just about everything he does, but he does NOT have a slow bat. His bat speed through the zone is outstanding.

By Ron Roberts

January 22, 2007 02:37 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Last season, Florida led the NL in strikeouts and scored 100 runs less than the Braves.

You mentioned Boston as a high-strikeout squad but right above them in strikeouts in AL were the D-Rays, who struck out a few more times and were last in the AL in scoring.

The Red Sox have a roster loaded with veterans, the D-Rays do not. The Braves will have the likes of Kelly Johnson (not one full season under his belt) and Scott Thorman (not one full season under his belt) in two of the eight available spots in the lineup, along with a Craig Wilson, who it seems will get plenty of ABs either spelling Thorman at 1B or platooning in LF.

Point is, you and I can use stats to prove or disprove each other ad nauseum; I don’t like losing LaRoche for another reliever for a bullpen that won’t have to hold leads if we don’t have ‘em when we get to the ‘pen as much.

I’ve watched this team since the Bob Watson, Chris Chambliss, Hubbard, Benedict, Horner & Murphy days, and I’ve seen young guys put in key situations that didn’t pan out, despite high expectations. I’ve seen ‘em surprise and delight us, and I’ve seen ‘em fall flat on their faces.

But our questions in the starting rotation have to be answered, for sure, now, because we’ve sacrificed (even if just 10-15 HRs or RBIs) our offense and our right-side infield defense for the sake of our bullpen, and our rotation has to pan out well in order for that gamble to pay off.

By David O'Brien

January 22, 2007 02:38 PM | Link to this

D Rock in Scotland: Isn’t that Sadies version of “Memphis, Egypt” just phenomenal? I love the Mekons, and the Sadies’ choice of cover music is just another indication of these guys’ tastes _ and their brilliance.

Reality Check: Yes, “How Far Down Can I Go” is really, really good. But you wrote, “Tell me it doesn’t convey every bit of the hopelessness, alienation and despair that Johnny Cash’s “Hurt” does.”

To me, Cash’s cover of “Hurt” stands alone, and the video is, hands down, for me the greatest video every made.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 02:43 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

You aren’t saying anything I disagree with. But most hitters are going to get themselves out by swinging at pitches out of the strikezone. So the object should be to be aggressive within the strikezone. At the major league level, “bad” contact is just as bad as a strikeout. If a hitter is reaching and can’t put good wood on a pitch, it’s very likely to become an out in the majors. Which is why the goal should be to be aggressive within the strikezone and lay off pitches you can’t handle.

But as far as Francouer being a bad ball hitter/consistently getting hits on bad balls, he hasn’t shown that ability because his strikeouts are high and his AVG and walk total are low. If he was a consistently good bad ball hitter, he would have a low K total and high average (ala Vlad Guerrero or Ichiro). You can point out one or two at bats with a lot of hitters who get hits on a bad ball, but does that mean they’re good bad ball hitters?

And I agree, it’s a bad strategy to go up to the plate not minding if you K. But I also think it’s a bad strategy to go up to the plate just wanting to make contact (unless you are very unique like Vlad or Ichiro—have good power ability on bad balls or are fast and have out-of-this-world bat control). Most hitters just need to concentrating on getting a pitch they can hit hard, then killing it. If they don’t get any good pitches, lay off.

But at the same time, I don’t think hitters should be overly obsessed with strikeouts as long as they are striking out on good pitches within the strikezone or close to the strikezone.

By KC

January 22, 2007 02:45 PM | Link to this

TennPaul: True. But is it me, or did Francoeur look more patient toward the end of the season? Seemed so to me.

By DonCoburleone

January 22, 2007 02:51 PM | Link to this

Between 1B and LF we are looking at roughly 1,200AB’s. So, out of those 1,200 AB’s they will be split between Thorman, Wilson, Langerhans and Diaz. I think, (unless Thorman struggles badly), we are probably going to see 450AB’s from Thorman, 400AB’s from Wilson, and then 200AB’s for Diaz and 150 for Langerhans… This is just the feeling I get after reading articles and hearing quotes from Cox and Scheurholz. I don’t think Cox or Scheurholz fully bought into Diaz’s numbers last year (neither have I), and even if they did, I believe they want more pop out of left field anyway (enter Craig Wilson). Langerhans will strictly be used as a 5th outfielder/late inning defensive replacement, meaning even getting the 150AB’s I predicted is going to be tough. If we really break this down and forecast the numbers of these players, I think one can logically come to the conclusion that between LF and 1B the production will only be slightly less (at worst) than it was last year. So for this reason, I believe trading LaRoche was a great move and it has made the team better overall for 2007 and better in the long run…

By TennesseePaul

January 22, 2007 02:53 PM | Link to this

A great example of the strike out debate is this one. Look at Carlos Beltran in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS. Basesloaded with 2 outs, bottom of the ninth. Would you rather have him stand there with his bat on his shoulders or would you rather him put the ball in play? I think every Met fan that ever visited this site would perfer he put the ball in play. I, on the other hand, whole heartedly buy into Paynes arguement at this point: Strike out Carolos. Strike out!

By KC

January 22, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts and others… one more thing on Craig Wilson: As I’ve mentioned, you can pencil Wilson in for 25-30 homers and 80-plus RBI if he plays everyday. One thing I didn’t mention was his OBP. He has a respectable career on-base percentage of .354… which is exactly what he posted in his only season as an everyday player (2004). He also scored 97 runs that year.

Again, if you average out Wilson’s numbers to 550 AB’s, the numbers are almost identical to the numbers he put up in 2004.

Yeah, he doesn’t hit for a high average, but it’s not terrible either for a power hitter. He strikes out a lot, but still posts respectable on-base percentages. He’s got 30 HR power, but he can hit the gaps as well (.480 career slugging%).

I’m having a pretty hard time understanding why this guy has been a part-time player most of his career. BC, let this guy play everyday!!

By ncscoots

January 22, 2007 03:02 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if Francoeur is a good bad-ball hitter or not, and if he continues to mature, we’ll never have to find out. His offensive game is still evolving, from swinging at balls to swinging at strikes to swinging at hitters’ strikes. He made the first jump during last season, and you have to hope he’ll do better at making the second jump this year. If he CAN start to recognize the difference between a pitcher’s strike and a hitter’s strike, his OBP will (relatively) zoom, and that appears to be his biggest deficiency, IMO. He should take a look at Andruw’s OBP, and realize you can hit 40+ homers and still avoid outs.

By Head Coach

January 22, 2007 03:02 PM | Link to this

The Colts got gift from the N.F.L. last night. That penalty in the back of the end zone against the Patriots giving the Colts the ball on the one yard line was just disgusting to me. I’ll admit I know next to nothing about the interference rule , but to call the defensive back for a penalty for simply getting between the ball and the wide receiver was nuts. He had his back to the ball and got called for for a penalty ? He never touched the receiver or the ball. The Colts of course scored from the one and that was the deciding factor in the final score of 38-34. I’m not a Colts or Bears fan , but I hope the Bears beat the living snot out Peyton Manning and the Colts because they really don’t deserve to be in the Super Bowl.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 03:08 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts,

Well, you just prove my point that strikeout totals have little or nothing to do with run scoring. Some teams that strikeout a lot score a lot some don’t. some teams that don’t strikeout a lot score a lot and some don’t. But try looking at Out Percentage or On-base Percentage and look how much that relates to run scoring—it’s too much and to often to be a coincidence that those numbers relate to run scoring. Why? Again, because how often you make outs is much more important than how you make outs.

I’m not looking at stats to prove or disprove my point but when there is a pattern that strong and that consistent as the relationship between OBP and runs scoring, it means something. And when there is such an inconsistent pattern between strikeouts and run scoring, that means something also.

It’s bad to try to prove and disprove things with stats. The approach should be to answer questions and use stats as the evidence that they are. The question is do strikeouts matter to production? Well, they don’t seem to because teams that strikeout a lot may score a lot of runs, they may not. There isn’t a strong relationship at all between strikeouts and run scoring.

What matters most in terms of producing runs? Well, the evidence tells us that avoiding outs is the most important factor (not the only strong factor but the one with the strongest relationship).

What does that tell us? Well, if a team strikes out more than most other teams but doesn’t make as many total outs as other teams, they are likely to still score more runs than most other teams.

I use stats to answer questions not to build cases for my opinions.

By TennesseePaul

January 22, 2007 03:10 PM | Link to this

KC: He did appear so. But when I looked at his monthly totals, it wasn’t that obvious. It was a small difference. At one point though, he had improved it from a 10 Ks to 1 BB, to about 2 to 1. Then slid off again, probably because he was tired.

By ObiWanKobe

January 22, 2007 03:17 PM | Link to this

DOB -Best song on the Jenny Lewis album is “Rise up with Fists” -I’ve heard some of the new Lucinda Williams and it is very good. Especially “Are You Alright?”

fyi…Rage Against the Machine is getting back together for a show at Cochella Arts and Music Festival out in the desert of Southern California

-Also you may like an L.A. band called The Submarines if you like Jenny Lewis. The are a couple who are now married, and wrote the album when they were broken up. Good stuff

By Reality Check

January 22, 2007 03:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, I don’t diminish Cash’s “Hurt” by bringing Lefty Frizzell into the discussion. I only enhance it.

Let’s just agree to say Johnny and Lefty were both gods who too briefly walked this earth.

What with all the Shaun and KC vs. Ron Roberts bickering over baseball minutiae raging around us, I feel like we’re a pair of philosophers having a deep discussion at a Chuck E. Cheese or McDonald’s Playland.

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 03:28 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul,

Your Beltran example doesn’t really mean anything because I said all along that it’s situational as to whether K’s are bad.

Also, a ground out or fly out in that situation would have been no different than a K—the game is still over.

But assume that situation arises and you have a choice between a guy who doesn’t make that many outs but a lot of his outs are strikeouts. Do you sub him for a guy who makes a whole lot of contact but makes a lot of outs? Assume all other skills are relatively even. The odds are against you anyway (the very best hitters are going to make an out in 60 percent of their plate appearances) so I’ll take my chances with the better hitter who strikes out a lot.

By Reality Check

January 22, 2007 03:28 PM | Link to this

The Patriots caved and gave up 32 points in the second half, so obviously they don’t deserve to be in the Super Bowl, either. Let’s just award the Lombardi Trophy to the Bears and be done with it.

By flange1

January 22, 2007 03:30 PM | Link to this

Hi All,

DOB,

great article on Kelly Johnson. I am looking forward to see in Glenn Hubbard can work his magic twice. I think Kelly will win the job, hit leadoff and do a good job.

Metro man,

I know you like to stir the pot, but as usual Lew put it to you again. Yes the Mets have a good team, yes they beat the Braves in 06. Yes they crashed and burned in the playoffs. Yes they have holes (starting pitching and OF). MAYBE Pedro will come back. Braves could be good too. I look forward to the race. But the trash talking is bush league. Say what you want to say, but leave the trash talking out or go somewhere else to talk about the Mets.

All,

Did anyone read Furman Bisher’s column? I have lived in ATlanta for my entire life (48 years), I have never liked Bisher. Met him a couple of times and he was always obnoxious and drunk. Never enjoyed his columns much, it always amazed me of his stupid commenst that people thought were true because they came from FURMAN.. Now he gets all of the questions about golf and the Masters, I am still amazed. This new column that he wrote not only do I not agree with it, it has MANY factual errors. Isn’t it time for Furman to retire? PLEASE RETIRE FURMAN, YOU STINK!

Thoughts?

By Reality Check

January 22, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

Keep it up, Shaun, and I’m gonna sic Carolina Lady on your a-s-s again!

By journalist jimmy smith

January 22, 2007 03:35 PM | Link to this

or in a trailer park, stinky

By Shaun

January 22, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Reality Check,

I have to keep it up. There are still those here who want to ignore the evidence. If truth isn’t sacred, what is?

TennPaul,

If I’m a Mets fan and I’m being objective, I look at what Beltran has done throughout the season for my team and don’t judge him based on that one PA. I’m happy he was up there in that situation. I’d be more angry with Randolph for using his fourth-best reliever (Aaron Heilman) in the 9th inning of a tie NLCS Game 7 instead of Billy Wagner.

By TennesseePaul

January 22, 2007 04:00 PM | Link to this

Payne: *I’ll take my chances with the better hitter *
Good strategy.

By the way the Beltran remark wasn’t serious. I brought it up because picturing the “Face of the Mets” just standing there watching the WS go right by him makes me happy.