Braves

By qtip

January 4, 2007 07:47 PM | Link to this

i’m first

By Troy

January 4, 2007 07:56 PM | Link to this

DOB- Do you think that maybe the Braves are possibly gearing up for a very busy offseason next year?

By not doing anything too dramatic or adding any substantial contracts this year, we might see a trade midseason or even next offseason (Hudson, Hampton, LaRoche, whoever) getting some young starters in return?

All this with the hopes of retaining A.J?

or maybe that is just wishful thinking

By Clayton

January 4, 2007 08:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, check this band out. I think you will enjoy their sound… http://www.bigcitysunrise.com/

By Troy

January 4, 2007 08:02 PM | Link to this

I know that the SP market is extremely inflated and the salaries that Hudson and Hampton are making aren’t too insane, but if both of those guys get off to a good start and are really pitching well around the trade deadline, would it make sense to try and trade one of those guys for some young starters to create more payroll flexibility?

If so who would you not mind seeing go?

By Tomahawkin

January 4, 2007 08:05 PM | Link to this

That was funny, D.O.B. Lets just say you’re better off not knowing…That stuff is complete garbage, not to mention Chris Brown..He sucks too…

I’m wit ya on the roster D.O.B. unless we pull some miracle deal in spring training for a leadoff hitter like we did in 95…Damn I’m reminiscing about the good dayz…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 4, 2007 08:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, regarding Betemit, I meant that nobody saw him being traded to the Dodgers. At least I didn’t. Most reports I had read and heard had him going to either the Padres or Yankees. I just meant that JS tends to work in secret springs these deals from nowhere.

I was wondering if Escobar’s spring goes like his performance in the fall league do you think the Braves would still go ahead and send him back to Richmond?

By Jared

January 4, 2007 08:09 PM | Link to this

Schuerholz: I’m still talking to other teams and exploring options, but I’m comfortable with the team as it stands now.

Translation: I’m not going to do anything else unless some team gets desperate and blows me away with an offer.

By Josh C

January 4, 2007 08:10 PM | Link to this

The worst part of the Barry Bonds debate is that some people will insist on making it about race. That part won’t be any fun. For me personally the steroid issue is impossibly difficult. There is no question that steroids would help a player, especially with respect to maintaining strength over the long season. On the other side, however, is the fact that the player still has to have the skills- how many athletic specimens have failed miserably in the majors?- regardless of brute strength. Since a player can be voted in later but can’t be voted out (can he, DOB?) I guess I would vote no until there’s more info. This makes the players guilty until proven innocent but for me it seems the only way to go.

By Jared

January 4, 2007 08:15 PM | Link to this

Bill Shanks says the Braves signed Fernando Lunar. World Series win now a lock!

Seriously, Brayan Pena deserves to be the back up catcher.

By Tomahawkin

January 4, 2007 08:17 PM | Link to this

That whole race stuff is dumb…regardless of race Cheaters come in all races, so as death…It doesn’t give a shyt about your color…I think its those turds at ESPN that still bring up the race thing because it gives them ratings…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 4, 2007 08:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, regarding Betemit, I meant that nobody saw him being traded to the Dodgers. At least I didn’t. Most reports I had read and heard had him going to either the Padres or Yankees. I just meant that JS tends to work in secret springs these deals from nowhere.

I was wondering if Escobar’s spring goes like his performance in the fall league do you think the Braves would still go ahead and send him back to Richmond?

By Tomahawkin

January 4, 2007 08:32 PM | Link to this

Aight Yooz guys gotta head out and Watch the O.C. Check ya in a few…Be back 2morrow nite before I go out and get my party on….

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2007 08:38 PM | Link to this

Folks, Braves only signed Lunar to a minor league deal, just another catcher for depth and spring training. Pena needn’t worry about losing the backup job. That’s his.

Lunar hasn’t even played in the majors since two games in 2002. Was in an indy league last season. Not a factor for major league team Braves….

Robert, yes, you’re right about Dodgers part of Betemit deal. That was a surprise. I thought you just meant Betemit being traded, period.

And yes, Escobar likely back to Richmond because he still has options and so many middle infielders vying for jobs. Or he could be traded.

Braves could still pull off a trade for a 2B, too, not meaning to imply they can’t or won’t. I just think it’s less likely than ever now.

By Alan

January 4, 2007 09:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m with you 100% regarding McGwire, Bonds and Rose. To call McGwire one-dimensional is to give him too much credit, IMO. I’m not convinced his numbers - what’s his lifetime BA, .275? - merit election, artificial enhancements or not. Bonds was a terrific player while with the Pirates. And to think the Braves nearly “stole” him before the ‘92 season. My son gave me JS’s book, “Built to Win,” for Christmas and I just read the section about JS’s negotiations with then-Pirates GM (and former Brave) Ted Simmons. As for Rose, he also was a terrific player and deserves election to the H of F as only that - a player. Speaking of McGwire, I saw on ESPN earlier this evening that a poll of 100 H of F voters showed only 26 would vote for McGwire. I hope he never gets in. Roger Maris deserves it much more than McGwire does. So, frankly, does Dale Murphy and that isn’t going to happen in our lifetime, I’m sure.

By snowball's chance

January 4, 2007 09:14 PM | Link to this

Is Steve Carlton in the hall of fame? I guess I could look it up but my point is that when a ballplayer hates the press it can come back to haunt him. When I remember Barry it is that pathetic attempt on noted speed merchant Sid Bream. How many left fielders are in the hall? Someone has to play there and it is usually the least talented outfielder.

“Bring the Family” includes one of my favorite Hiatt songs, “Liptick Sunset”.A great live album is “Hiatt comes alive at Budokan? ”

By Pete

January 4, 2007 09:14 PM | Link to this

DOB-Ripple Flashback… Must agree with you on your Mac & Rose opinions. Bonds no way.

By The Grinch

January 4, 2007 09:14 PM | Link to this

Y’all, I agree Big Mac was a liar and a cheater. He was definitely one-dimensional. But he was also one of the very, very few players I’ve ever watched that kept me absolutely riveted to every second of one of his at-bats. If he kept fouling off pitches, I’d let food burn on the stove before I’d turn away. And when he cranked one…there are home runs and there are home runs. Dude was a force of nature. That’s got to count for something.

By Lew

January 4, 2007 09:17 PM | Link to this

DOB-Just got my tickets to see Johnny Winter on the 26th in Burlington. I haven’t seen him since the 90’s. Has he put anything out the past couple of years that you know of? Troy-If Hudson and Hampton get off to a good start by July, the Braves will definitely be somewhere near the top of the division and would be unlikely to WANT to trade them.

By Dale Murphy's Oil Soap

January 4, 2007 09:21 PM | Link to this

just one simple question: Is Kelly Johnson fast? I know not all good leadoff hitters need to be capable of stealing 50 bases but I haven’t seen enough of him to even know what kind of baserunner he is. Just curious.

By MizzouGuru

January 4, 2007 09:29 PM | Link to this

DOB: I feel pretty good about what the Braves have in personnel right now. However, that would be a lot of pressure on Kelly Johnson by simultaneously - (1) learning a new position, (2) batting lead off and (3) learning to hit at the major league level which he previously hasn’t done. Maybe a platoon of KJ and Aybar at second with KJ going against righties and Aybar going against lefties would be a good route.

By Stinky

January 4, 2007 09:52 PM | Link to this

What part of banned for life’ doesn’t DOB understand? Rose knew the stakes every time he placed a bet. As a major league manager, he should have known better. His betting on baseball introduced an element that destroyed the integrity of every game he managed.

He only bet on his team, DOB might say. Does that mean he held pitchers out of games that he didn’t bet on to use in games he did bet on? Does that mean he gave guys days off before games he bet on? Did bookies and their ilk gain an advantage by knowing when Rose placed his bets?

DOB doesn’t care. He thinks that Pete Rose should be honored even though he gambled on baseball while wearing a Cincinatti Reds uniform.

Rose has his reward. He got to play and manage in major league baseball for 27 years, made millions of dollars and crapped all over the game and himself. End of story.

By brian

January 4, 2007 09:54 PM | Link to this

DOB - the reason a lot of us keep talking about Andruw Jones being traded is because with all our wisdom (as compared to a Hall Of Fame GM) we disagree with keeping Andruw through his walk year and letting him walk with no compensation except possible draft picks. If our “budget” makes us act like a mid-level franchise, then we need to act like one - when a star player is going to walk you trade him to reload both now and the future. Most of it is probably wishful thinking.

My wishful thinking is AJ resigns with the Braves to a deal that will not cripple the Braves’ payroll in the future. I believe that this is more fantasy than Andruw being traded by the end of the year. Unless the Braves are well out in front - bullpen as good as expected, no drop in offense, and SP doing great (James and Smoltz picking up where they left off last year. Hudson and Hampton rebounding with strong seasons. Davies pitching to his potential)- the Braves should deal Andruw IF they can get a package to improve the team now and for years to come.

Any chance the package the Yankees got from the DBacks makes them more likely to deal Proctor with Cabrera in the possible 3 way trade that has largely died? I still do not know if I would do that trade anyway

By MBATL

January 4, 2007 09:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, been out eating some Chinese (they tried to resist but we ate them anyway).

Congrats on the new blog! I don’t agree on Bonds, but won’t bore you or the group with my reasoning. If they give me a vote (for some reason), it’s no. But, that probably won’t happen.

Great work, as always.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

January 4, 2007 09:58 PM | Link to this

John Hiatt’s version of “Angel Eyes,” which he wrote, is fantastic, especially on the live CD “Hiatt Comes Alive atBudokan.”

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 4, 2007 09:59 PM | Link to this

You know, I think race still plays a big part in some of the dealings of this society but where Barry Bonds is concerned race has nothing to do with it. Of course, some people don’t want Bonds to break the record simply because he is Black and they don’t like that Hank has the record. But, most people who don’t want Bonds to break the record don’t want him to do it because he is Black but because they simply don’t like him. Period!!!!!!! Bonds is not the most personable guy and has a tendency to rub people the wrong way. While I don’t necessarily have a problem with the man, he is arrogant and moody and just an all around jerk to those he doesn’t like or doesn’t know. The man is an a** pure and simple. AGAIN, Bonds isn’t hated because of his color. He is hated because he can be a hateful and arrogant person. I actually read today that part of the holdup with signing of the contract is that the Giants want him to act with more professionalism with him approaching the home run record. I will assume that Bonds isn’t so hot on the idea.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

January 4, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Robert,

I don’t completely disagree with you about the “race problem,” but find me an African American he will say Bonds did ‘rhoids and O.J. did it and I’ll sell you some ocean front property in Arizona.

By Alan

January 4, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

Oil Soap, I get the feeling that KJ has average speed. He has a good eye and Bobby Cox loves his swing (see current issue of “ChopTalk”). KJ himself says he likes to hit at the top of the order, which sounds like a bit of a slam at Marcus Giles. Whether or not he can do the job remains to be seen, of course. Speaking of “CT”, the Dec. issue lists the Top 30 Braves prospects and not included is perhaps the organization’s fastest runner, Gregor Blanco, who is on the 40-man roster and supposedly has a good shot at the LF job and, presumably, the leadoff spot. I have to doubt that, based on the prospect rankings. Any comments on Blanco, DOB?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

January 4, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

“who will say” not “he will say”

By berigan

January 4, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Hey!!! No one told me there was a new blog!!! I thought for sure David said there would be no new blogs! ;) Well, here were my last 2 fascinating posts…..

By berigan January 4, 2007 09:17 PM | Link to this

Shaun, at 4:24 you said Nolan Ryan never won 20 games in a season. Actually, he won 20 games in back to back seasons, 1973 and 74. (21 and 22 wins respectively)15 short years later, in 1989, a 42 year old Ryan won 16 games, pitched 236 innings(More innings than all but one pitcher in 2006) He also struck out 301 batters that same season. 56 more than the ML leader last year. Careerwise, he also has 1100 more strikeouts than the next on the list(Roger Clemens) His 5386 career innings pitched are the 5th highest in the history of the game. Phil Neikro pitched in 18 more innings. the other 3? All retired 80 or more years ago. Ryan’s 61 career Shutouts are 7th most in the history of the game. He’s not overrated in my book.

By berigan

January 4, 2007 09:50 PM | Link to this

And did I actually hear folks talking up Richie, umm, I mean Dick Allen for the HOF? Didn’t Harry Carey say once about him that his was a million dollar talent with a 10 cent brain?(this was the 70’s) Didn’t he suffer Mickey Rivers/JD. Drew/Fred Lynn-its? Missed every 5th game, didn’t he???

Now Jim Rice, he should be in the hall, 8 100+ RBI seasons (Compared to Allen’s 3 seasons) Andre Dawson had 1591 RBI’s, about 480 more than Dick Allen, good for 29th all time. and he had to play most of his career on terrible knees and on that harder than concrete turf in Montreal. Not saying Dick Allen wasn’t talented…..

By The Grinch

January 4, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

GHF, ask Robert(JTIB). I bet he wouldn’t mind weighing in. And don’t tell me you think OJ did it? He was’t proven guilty! Ohh, I tried to type that with a straight face, but there have been chuckleheads on here before who use the same reasoning about Bonds and steroids. Who was that a month or so ago who kept calling everyone else an idiot because we weren’t actually in the training room standing next to him while he was shooting up so we couldn’t possibly know? I didn’t actually hear the 15 minutes edited off the Watergate tapes either; guess ol’ Tricky Dick must’ve been telling the truth, too. Anyhoo, even though McGwire and Bonds are both liars and cheats, at least McGwire voluntarily walked away from his excessive contract (with two years left on it) because he felt he wasn’t performing up to his standards anymore and didn’t want to rip anyone off. Does that sound anything like Bonds? He’s not much better a player now than I am and he’s still holding out for more and more. At least McGwire had a little integrity, albeit a very little. And for all y’all railing aginst these guys for juicing up to put on a show for you, why not try to get wrestling banned. How bloody gawd-awful would that sport be if they tested for roids? I hate it anyway, personally, but I bet there are literally millions in America who watch and cheer on that crap religiously at the same time they preach against Baseball players. Oh, the hypocrisy!

By RightOnPeachtree

January 4, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, by your logic, you should be treating Big Mac a little better. Yes, Barry had great numbers pre-juicing. But keep in mind that McGwire hit 48 homers as a skinny rookie. He always had the power and was stupid to juice later on — but he was a prolific power hitter even before he started ballooning in size.

By dcarp23

January 4, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Here are two rebuttals to DOB’s McGwire position. Personally, I side with these opinions, but one of the beauties of the Hall of Fame is its democratic nature. Simmons article looks at it from a moral standpoint (I personally loved the ridiculousness of Ann Killion’s quote), and Neyer’s is obviously from a statistical perspective.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070103

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hof07/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2719720

One thing that I found interesting is the lack of great first basemen all time. After Gehrig and Foxx, who would you really say is the third best 1B of all-time? The argument could be made easily for Bagwell, but just as strongly for McGwire, Murray and McCovey, and Dick Allen (whom I know nothing about) is rated highly as well.

By SouthernObserver

January 4, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Stinky didn’t want to be banned for life from the DOB/ATLBRAVES/MIB/BlOG so he caved in like a house of cards. What part of Banned for Life did Stinky think was unjust? Two-faced whiny jerk.

By dayf

January 4, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Wait, what? You are eligible to vote for the Hall of Fame but AJC won’t allow it?? You must really love your job… I’d be going all Early Cuyler on them over that.

By Stinky

January 4, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

SouthernObserver, I know you are, but what am I?

By John Adcox

January 4, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Thank you, iTunes store. Just bought Bring the Family and a bunch of Sexsmith. Can’t wait to give it a listen. Tomorrow.

Anyone going to the Eaglesmith show at Eddie’s?

By flange1

January 4, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Hey Lew,

Enjoy johnny Winter! I saw him in Atlanta last time around and have purchased his last couple of CD’s. HE IS NOT THE SAME AS HE USED TO BE. He used to be a real fast powerful guitar player. Now, he is much slower and more deliberate, and as my man Keith says knows when to be quiet…..

It will be a different show, but still a good one. Just don’t expect the old JW…..

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

Need to see Blanco play and hear what Cox and others have to say about him before I can tell you if he has any shot of making the team. His name just doesn’t come up in conversations I’ve had this winter with Braves people….

Someone asked about Kelly J’s speed. It’s not bad at all, pretty good really. Just got off phone with Glenn Hubbard tonight, talking about Kelly’s progress at 2B. Hubby’s really has been impressed with how hard he’s worked, how much progress he’s made, etc), and also pointed out, when we were discussing the leadoff possibility, pointed out that Kelly is aggressive and will steal a base when he gets the green light, not like some who need to be cattle-prodded….

Lew, don’t know of anything new Winter’s put out, but the man still tours and tours. I’m sure he still puts on a great show.

RIGHTONPEACHTREE, Mac had 49 homers as a rookie, then more than 33 only twice in the next eight years. Had 274 homers in his first 10 seasons, then 245 over the NEXT FOUR SEASONS, then broke down, playing 89 and 97 games the next two seasons before hanging it up. Humm….

As I said, he was one-dimensional offensively, though a better fielder than people gave him credit. Still, his numbers before the 52-58-70-64 homer explosion over four seasons (1996-99) would never have warranted Hall consideration, and he was HUGE by then, freakishly huge in the shoulders and arms. I remember seeing him with a sleeveless T in the Cardinals locker room one time and just being astounded by how big his shoulders and biceps/triceps were. And batting practice … just silly. Fun, though. Great fun and exciting watching him.

Just wouldn’t vote for him. The man had way more than twice as many homers (583) as doubles (252).

By The Grinch

January 4, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

Oops, I posted that last and just now realized y’all were already talking to each other. I feel like an idiot. Berigan, you’re still on my $%#@ list. :-)

Dcarp23, I started to link to those earlier too. I never miss Simmons; he’s hilarious (and almost always right). Y’all still need to check out his reviews of all six “Rocky” movies.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this

Adcox, you gotta let the folks know if I’m lying on Hyatt, soon as you listen. And Snowball’s right _ “Lipstick Sunset” is probably even better than “Like Your Dad Did.” So many great songs on that album, including “Memphis in the Meantime,” “Thank You Girl,” “Learning How to Love You,” on and on….

Stinky, I have no problem with banning him for life. I agree he should stay banned _ from baseball. From being part of the game. From being in dugouts, working for teams, etc, etc. But I personally don’t feel that has anything to do with being in the Hall of Fame. As I stated, he belongs in the Hall of Fame for his accomplishments as a player. Has nothing to do with what he did after his playing career.

And I didn’t say anything about who he bet on, for or against his team, etc. Doesn’t matter to me, long as there’s been no allegations or evidence that he bet as a player. If he’d done that, I’d say no question, banned from the game and from the Hall of Fame.

They don’t take players’ busts out of the Hall if they get arrested later in life or if we find out later that a player beat up a guy in a wheelchair or was an inveterate racist or whatever, and I don’t think they should keep Rose out of the Hall. Just my opinion.

Relax. I’m not voting anyway. And he’s not on the ballot anymore.

By David O'Brien

January 4, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

dayf, yeah, I do like my job. and i like paying my mortgage and my 401K more than I value voting for the Hall of Fame. call me crazy.

By Ace

January 4, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, for the sake of discussion…. would you vote for Shoeless Joe? Look at his stats in that Series, man.

Who have we not heard much about this off-season that could make a splash in spring?

By The Grinch

January 4, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Dave, they don’t let racists into the hall of fame. 401K: isn’t that like a marathon or something? I’ve heard about job security; just never had the pleasure. What’s it like? I’ve always had to live off my wit, so as you can imagine I have a poor diet. :-)

By Tommy

January 4, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

My oh my… the fans are ready to speak on steroids in 2007

http://www.756myasterisk.com/

By Coloradobravesfan

January 4, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

Check it out… Jake Peavy areested by Airport Cops. MOBILE, Ala. (AP) - San Diego Padres pitcher Jake Peavy was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct Thursday at Mobile Regional Airport.

The 25-year-old Mobile native was taken to the Mobile County Metro Jail shortly before 7 a.m. and was released on a $350 bond, according to the jail log. Airport Police Chief James Kincaid would not say what led to Peavy’s arrest, but told the Press-Register newspaper that “a situation presented itself and the officers involved felt like they had a situation to deal with.”

Padres general manager Kevin Towers told The Associated Press he was told that Peavy was headed for a goodwill tour of the Dominican Republic with other major league players when he double-parked to drop off his bags and was told by airport police to move his car.

“The airport police told him he couldn’t park his car there and he said, ‘Write me up a ticket and I’ll pay for it,”’ Towers said. “He was arrested.”

A message left on Peavy’s cell phone wasn’t immediately returned. Peavy’s agent, Barry Axelrod, didn’t respond to an e-mail and a call to his cell phone.

Kincaid said the incident occurred around 5:20 a.m. just outside the terminal building.

Peavy has a career record of 57-45, all with the Padres. He was 11-14 with a 4.09 ERA last season.

By dayf

January 5, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

I understand about the mortgage and all, I’m working the overnight shift right now to pay for that myself, and I’m sure you’d be baffled by some of the stuff I put up with from my corporate overlords. I’m just sayin… there’s only 520 or so of those things mailed out every year. I love your articles and this blog so I’ll bite my tongue, but just… wow. :(

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

dayf, you don’t have to bite your tongue on account of me. Say whatever you feel like saying. It’s not my policy, and I don’t necessarily agree with it. But you know what? I’m an employee, and I’m treated well by my bosses, and I like my job. So I do what I’m told.

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Cue the theme to “Greatest American Hero.” :-)

By dayf

January 5, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

-ouch- sorry, the tongue is already bit -ouch- I shouldn’t have -ouch- bit so hard -ouch- anyone got any ice?

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

OhhhKaaaa, on that strange note…

Anybody see My Name is Earl “Cops” episode and The Office tonight? Taped ‘em and just watched. Freakin’ hilarious, both shows.

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

“…who could it be…believe it or not, DOB..”

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this

Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here all week. God, I hope nobody remembers that tv show and theme song; otherwise there are people at least as pathetic as myself floating around. I’m suddenly in the mood for a Wings Hauser marathon. Help! The 80’s are drawing me back in!

By mr baseball

January 5, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

DOB: In complete aggrement regarding Bonds and McGwire. Bonds was a Hall of Famer before his body shape altered, McGwire was not. As for Rose, give him a little section in Cooperstown with his records but keep him out. I saw him play in the minors when he was with Macon and he was a jerk already. Don’t give him the satisfaction of enshrining him. He put up some impressive numbers, but was only about the 4th best player on the Big Red Machine glory teams.

It’s obvious that Ripken & Gwynn are going in, but voters need to take a closer look at Gwynn’s numbers. For all the hits he amassed, he neither scored runs nor drove them in at anywhere near a Hall of Fame standard. Not sure how he managed that.

Rice should have been elected already simply off his numbers, but he is one of the more obvious examples of how an unpleasant personality and media grudges impact voting. It’s doubtful that Belle will get more than a handful of votes, but he was arguably the best offensive player of the ’90s and the numbers for his 10 full seasons are staggering.

At least 2 of the eligible pitchers deserve induction, but don’t bet on either one. Morris was one of the game’s elite pitchers for maybe 15 seasons and was the best of his era in big games. Lee Smith will never get voted in, but he was a consistently excellent closer for a long time for a lot of teams, and never got anywhere near the credit he deserved. Gossage will probably get more votes but compare the 2.

Sorry faithful Braves fans from the ’80s, but Murphy doesn’t quite make the cut. He was a terrific player for six or seven years, but you have to be a Sandy Koufax to make the Hall with that short a stay at the top.

A tip of the cap to whoever it was that referred to Procol Harum a day or two ago. Their Best of album is a remarkable compilation from one of the most eclectic and talented groups of their era, but like a lot of great bands and solo artists from that time, they are pretty much just a fading footnote.

Anybody else remember Rory Gallagher?

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

I’ve actually not been watching much network TV. I usually stick to the multitude of Discovery/History/Science channels, other than Law & Order and X-Files re-runs. I only check out new shows that I’ve accidentally caught and enjoyed while high…uh, I mean on life, and all. I dig “House, M.D.,” and “24.” I can honestly say I haven’t seen 90% of the other network comedies and dramas in the past couple of years. What would you recommend? I have a pretty wide range of tastes; it can’t be too violent or shocking for me, nor too funny. It can, however, be too slick, contrived, p.c. and re-hashed (no pun intended).

By Ron

January 5, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

Grinch, Dude wrestling and baseball are two totally different things. We are talking about Baseball records at stake, In Wrestling there are no records, there just wrestling, probably about 40 percent of baseball players use some type of steroid. And about 80 percent of wrestlers use some type of steroid. Bye the way I am a wrestling fan. And I dont like Baseball players using steroids BECAUSE of the previous records, it tants the game. You know Hank and Gerig and all of them never used steroids to accomplish success but you dont know about anybody now a days. In Wrestling there are no records, so it does not matter to the FANS if they use steroids or not, at least it does not matter to me. The people that uses steroids dont care what the effects are so why should I care.

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this

Grinch - Actually, I used to love that show when I was a kid. William Katt flying around in a red suit…remember thinking it was hilarious.

Anyone remember these two long-forgotten 80’s shows?

Automan - “Cursor!! I need the car!”

Manimal - Any dude who could change into a panther or hawk would have my undivided 10-year-old attention back then.

By mr baseball

January 5, 2007 01:02 AM | Link to this

While we’re on the topic of steroids, why is it that no one ever points out that more pitchers have tested dirty than hitters? For those who want to put an asterisk on the HR numbers of McGwire, Sosa & Bonds, do they get any extra credit if some of their bombs were hit off juiced pitchers? I understand how steroids can enable a power hitter to boost his HR numbers, but in Bonds’ case, how did they help him become a better hitter as he aged? Is there a steroid that improves hand/eye coordination? Just wondering.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:08 AM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball, Rory Gallagher _ now there’s a bada*# Irishman, not far behind Shane MacGowan and Van the Man in my book. Dude could absolutely blister the guitar….

As for baseball, you wrote: “Rice should have been elected already simply off his numbers, but he is one of the more obvious examples of how an unpleasant personality and media grudges impact voting.”

But you also wrote: “As for Rose, give him a little section in Cooperstown with his records but keep him out. I saw him play in the minors when he was with Macon and he was a jerk already. Don’t give him the satisfaction of enshrining him.”

Grinch, you’ve cultivated this image, or at least I have this visual, of you living at the end of some dirt road, with a rabbit-ears antennae on the roof and an eight-track player connected to massive speakers. I know it can’t be accurate, but my god, man _ reruns of “X-Files”? Dude, how many times can you watch those. I used to love that show, but I think I saw them all 2-3 times.

Anyway, since they stopped making that series, there’ve been, oh, 10 amazing series come and go, and some still at their peaks. I’d strongly recommend a few on HBO, but I’m sure you’re going to tell me you don’t have HBO. If you do, then “The Wire,” “Entourage” and “The Sopranos.” “Six Feet Under” was great, but it had a nice run and is done (all since end of X-Files).

On basic (free) cable, FX has some great shows, topped by “The Shield) and “Rescue Me,” which was created and stars Dennis Leary as a NYC firefighter and ballbuster in a firehouse filled with dudes struggling with divorces, alcoholism, etc. Great stuff, raw as hell (FX shows get away with tons more salty language and some nudity, compared to big-four networks).

I, too, really dig House (I’m pretty certain it’s just House, not House, M.D.) And Law & Order Criminal Intent is as good as the original, to me. And Friday Night Lights is damn good. And CSI. And those Thursday night sitcoms on NBC (My Name is Earl, The Office, Scrubs, 30 Rock) are best comedy lineup in years.

Oh, and of course “Curb Your Enthusiasm” on HBO.

Plus, there’s always X-Files reruns (kidding, dude, don’t snap at me again, please).

By Jay

January 5, 2007 01:11 AM | Link to this

“And please don’t start telling me that’s hypocritical or inconsistent. “

…because I dont want to hear the truth

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:13 AM | Link to this

Mr Baseball, there was a very good article in Sports Illustrated recently about the brilliant evil-genius doctor who’s coming up with all the cutting-edge ‘roids like The Clear (THG) and others, the dude that supplied the stuff to Conte and Balco. This guy said he gets so tired of refuting all the myths and mistatments about ‘roids, including the notion that ‘roids can’t increase your batting average. As he said, taking testosterone (in ‘roids) can greatly increase your focus, allowing you to block out all the stuff around you and focus on the pitch. He said they clearly can help a batter not just increase his power, but his average. First time I’ve heard an expert talk about that aspect of it.

Oh, and who said there were going to be asterisks? Every baseball person I know has pretty much agreed it would be impractical and impossible to put asterisks on everyone’s records who may or may not have taken ‘roids. It’s not going to happen, for hitters or pitchers.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 5, 2007 01:16 AM | Link to this

Hey,Glass Half Full, how much are you selling that property for. I’m actually African-American and believes that Bonds did do steroids. Now, OJ, I’m not so sure. I think one person nobody ever mentions is OJ’s son, Jason. I personally think Jason could have done with it which would explain why the DNA was similar but not a perfect match. But, anyway, you really shouldn’t classify all African-Americans in the same category. Have you talked to enough of us to make an informed opinion or only going on what you heard or see on television?

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 01:18 AM | Link to this

Oregon_Braves, I don’t remember “Automan,” but I do remember “Manimal.” My lord, the stuff that used to pass as entertainment. I’m going out on a limb here, but remember Stephen J. Cannell as a producer? He did the “A-Team,” “Riptide,” “Hunter,” “Wiseguy,” etc. (he also did “Baretta” and “Rockford Files” back in the 70’s)…the dude was King of 80’s cheese. Sit Ubu sit…good dog.” Ha! Bet I got a few of y’all on that one.

Ron, I don’t care either. Baseball has traditionally been a sport of alcohol abuse, speed, cocaine, now steroids…who cares? The game is the game and it jams no matter what. I can’t go after anyone in the sport for doing that sort of thing…I’ve been getting messed up for years and I can’t hit 50 homers in a season, so who am I to judge?

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:20 AM | Link to this

Oh, and Grinch, took your advice and got Cormac McCarthy’s “Blood Meridien.” Just started reading it _ stellar, dude. Out west, but an entirely different era than “No Country for Old Men.” For some reason I was expecting all his western books to be from same era.

Anyway, great book. You’ve read his latest, no? How good is that one?

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 01:40 AM | Link to this

Dave, when you’ve done to your brain what I have, doesn’t matter how many times you see the same episodes of the X-files…they’re always fresh. And why the hell would I jump on you for that? I know I’m a dinosaur; I set myself up for that. Just don’t like being told I’m tasteless. I may be behind the times, but I’m not tasteless (though I spend an awful lot of time observing and making fun of tasteless things…hmm. More complicated than I thought). Really, though, I haven’t watched any of the shows that you just mentioned save “The Sopranos,” though all have been recommended to me. I’m one of those people that can’t read a series out of order, neither can I watch a show out of order. If I miss the premiere, I have to wait for the whole season to come out on DVD (I didn’t start catching up on the Sopranos ‘till after season three). So I’ve got all those to look forward to, including “Deadwood” (still haven’t seen episode one, even though I’m the acknowledged “Western King” of all my compadres). I am an antinomian. I also should’ve said L&O: SVU and CI; I really don’t watch the original re-runs anymore after Jerry orbach died. I’m sure this is way more than you wanted to know about my viewing habits. :-)

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 01:41 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, Cannell was extremely prolific back then, wasn’t he? Always liked the A-Team, but never loved it. Another one of his I remember was Hardcastle & McCormick. Cool red car in that one.

This wasn’t Cannell, but I remember watching Airwolf back then, also. Sure, it was a ripoff of the Blue Thunder movie, but Jan-Michael Vincent was the man in that show.

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 01:45 AM | Link to this

Dave - I see that you mentioned No Country for Old Men. Since you seem to be a cinemaphile as well, did you know that will be the next film from the Coen Brothers? It’s in post-production, so it should be a late 2007 release. Expect a home run.

By Rex Boaz

January 5, 2007 01:49 AM | Link to this

Neither of the three (lets don’t talk about the past),(No understand english)and (I never took anything) clowns should ever get into the hall. Rummer has it that one of the clowns is making a comeback. It is said he is swinging a 72 oz bat but has no ——-. A hundred home runs in 07. Love you blog DOB.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:51 AM | Link to this

I stand corrected _ It’s either House or House, M.D. Been called both.

But Grinch, I’m sure glad that the powers that be in baseball, not to mention reporters and a great deal of current players and all the old-timers, don’t agree with you on your anything-goes stance regarding drugs in baseball. Ludicrous to think what the game would become and how distorted all statistical references and comparisons would be if players were permitted to simply buy the best performance-enhancers they could afford, design the best year-round steroid programs with the best doctors, and get bigger, stronger and faster with each new drug that would be developed if there were no restrictions. Sorry, but I’m not interested in covering a freak show and I don’t think most people are interested in watching a sport where every decent power hitter can hit 40-50 homers and the top guys would hit 75-90, and pitchers would put up amazing numbers until their arms fell off, which is where the sport would be headed if there were no restrictions on drug usage and nobody cared what anybody was doing to get an edge.

That’s why wrestling is a staged exhibition with black hats vs white knights, all a show with no real competition involved. Or do you not want today’s game of baseball to have any reference point or any real direct link to the game played by Ruth, DiMaggio, Robinson, Mantle, etc?

At the risk of sounding too romantic _ and you are certainly the one that’ll let me know I am _ It’s one thing that separates baseball from other sports, how the essence of the game hasn’t really changed much. I mean, football linemen from the 50s couldn’t compete in today’s game, and most backs and wide receivers from the past couldn’t either. But Joe D and Ted Williams and the Mick and Clemente would be stars today, much as they were then. Maybe not quite as dominant, but absolutely they’d be stars.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:55 AM | Link to this

Rex, I felt like I was in the CIA trying to decipher your post. But I got it after a couple of reads. Interesting, especially about _ uh-hum _ Slammin’ Sammy.

Oregon Brave, no I had not heard about Coen Bros doing No Country For Old Men. That should be outrageously good. are they using any of their usual actors _ Goodman, Turturro, those guys?

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 02:00 AM | Link to this

Stringfellow Hawk! Who the hell could come up with anything like that in any other era but the 80’s? And yeah. it was a ripoff of BT with Roy schieder, but no-one cared about realism then. And the car was the only part of H&C worth watching (the “Coyote”); yet we watched it anyway. Dang, dude; you must be a lot like me. Doesn’t speak much for your character. :-)

Dave, the more McCarthy I read, the more I’m convinced he’s America’s greatest living novelist. Being a critic and thus given to critisism by nature, that is very high praise. Still reading his newest one (besides the play I referenced earlier); I’m just coming back to it ‘cause I had to take a holiday break (he isn’t exactly the jolliest fellow); I’ll fill you in when I’m done. Blistering so far (pun intended; it’s post-nuclear holocaust setting).

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:04 AM | Link to this

Grinch, just read your post about what you’ve done to your brain, and had to smile. I’m sure you’ve got great stories. But it’d be like that scene in Jaws if you and I were exchanging those stories, something I could never and would never do here. Suffice to say, I feel quite fortunate to have come out of my years of, uh, good times with faculties intact. Remember, I’m a bit older than you, so I already did that battle-filled stretch from about 18 to 35, and have had quite a bit of time since then to shake my head in amazement. All I can say is that the brain, like the body in general, has amazing recuperative powers.

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 02:06 AM | Link to this

No, those guys tend to show up in the Coen’s comedies (Arizona, Lebowski, O Brother). Here are the principles:

Moss - Josh Brolin Bell - Tommy Lee Jones Wells - Woody Harrelson (yes, I know…out of the box, huh?) Chigurh - Javier Bardem (an absolutely stellar Spanish actor - will own this movie)

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 02:12 AM | Link to this

The Coyote, yes, now I remember. To tell the truth, that’s really all I do remember about the show, other than that I remember enjoying it. We’re probably around the same age, then. I’m 33 and grew up on tv and my parent’s top-loader VCR that was as big as a Samsonite suitcase.

By futurebravesgm2413

January 5, 2007 02:12 AM | Link to this

I’m glad to hear that the Braves want Kelly Johnson to win teh 2nd base job. I have always loved him and his playing style. Is it just me assuming Johnson wins the 2nd base job and Thorman starts in left that our 5 bench guys will be Pena,Woodward,Aybar,Langerhans, and Diaz? Looks like a strong bench.

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 02:19 AM | Link to this

Yeah, dude; I got ya. “You’re gonna need a bigger boat.” :-)

Your 1:51 post makes me feel like an A-hole, even more so than usual. Believe it or not, I’m about as romantic as anyone (I still cry during Disney movies). I didn’t envision that horrifying world you painted when I made that generalization. Yowch. I didn’t mean baseball should be totally unregulated, I just meant people have been beating the system for years and we don’t always know who’s who. No, I don’t want it to degenerate into a freakshow; good lord. I suppose I ought to think about what I say before I say it. Funny, people have told me for an awful long time that would improve the quality of my life considerably…:-)

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 02:34 AM | Link to this

Oregon, I’m 33 too. Aug 18, 1973. Parents had a top-loading Panasonic VHS; I later got a top-loading Sony Betamax. Still got a bunch of those tapes, too. Better quality, but never caught on. Those machines pop a video tape out like a cassette (I should say like a cassette used to…fast and hard); scares the crap out of you if you’re not ready. Man; I feel old. But not as old as DOB. :-)

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:42 AM | Link to this

Orgeon Brave, now that you mention the dude playing the Chigurh character, I do remember hearing about that movie being made. That guy Barden is also going to play Pablo Escobar in the movie “Killing Pablo” coming out in a year or so.

Yeah, Goodman’s in their comedies. Turturro was in Miller’s Crossing, though. Both were in Barton Fink, a comedy, albeit a rather bloody, grisly one.

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 02:44 AM | Link to this

Actually, I remember trying to tote that Panasonic from one room to another…I got selected to do that job because I was strong as an ape. It must’ve weighed 50 pounds. Now I’ve got VCR/DVD combos cannibalized and littered all over my living spaces. Go figure. I bet I’ve got more tuner/amplifier/base units than anyone here. From the nineteen-teens to the 20’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and brand spanking new. Not all high-end stuff, mind you, but representative samples nonetheless. You can’t walk 15 feet in my house without tripping over A/V equipment. I feel like the little dude at the beginning of “Blade Runner.”

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 02:57 AM | Link to this

Miller’s Crossing is my favorite Coen film, so it’s always nice for someone to mention it. One of Gabriel Byrne’s best roles. I think it is criminally overlooked. Too bad their version of To the White Sea was shelved. Would have been spectacular.

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 03:06 AM | Link to this

Grinch - Those were heavy lifting back then, but so were the VHS tapes. Found some old ones a while back and was amazed at how much heavier and thicker the old tape was than the later versions. Of course, they both are riding the Streetcar Named Oblivion now, aren’t they?

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 03:09 AM | Link to this

Good call. Miller’s Crossing is definitely underrated. Don’t forget Alec Guiness. Brilliant!. Watch Guiness responsibly. Sorry; had to do that. I’m now going to slip off into an Iron Maiden abyss.

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 03:14 AM | Link to this

Run to the hills, Grinch. Run to the hills.

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 03:22 AM | Link to this

That may be the most bizarre thing ever. I went through Churchill’s speech, Ace’s High, Number of the Beast, and started to hit Revalations, but decided on Flight of Icarus followed by Run to the Hills as my next choices. “White man came/across the sea/ he brought us pain, and misery/…” Do I know you? :-)

By Oregon_Braves

January 5, 2007 03:35 AM | Link to this

Yeah, I’m your evil twin.

As cool as Maiden was to metal freaks back in the 80’s, they made some absolutely atrocious videos. “Hills” was probably the worst of the bunch. Good song, though.

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 04:04 AM | Link to this

No doubt, going back through the videos definitely decreases the impact of the music…I avoid it as much as possible. Just like I don’t wear parachute pants or acid-washed jeans anymore. Most movies from that time are horribly dated as well. Remember “Rad?” If you do, you shouldn’t admit it. Time to snooze. Will resume later. Peace.

By berigan

January 5, 2007 06:22 AM | Link to this

**By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 01:18 AM | Link to this

Oregon_Braves, I don’t remember “Automan,” but I do remember “Manimal.” My lord, the stuff that used to pass as entertainment. I’m going out on a limb here, but remember Stephen J. Cannell as a producer? He did the “A-Team,” “Riptide,” “Hunter,” “Wiseguy,” etc. (he also did “Baretta” and “Rockford Files” back in the 70’s)…the dude was King of 80’s cheese. Sit Ubu sit…good dog.” Ha! Bet I got a few of y’all on that one.**

Grinch, you are kidding us, right? To paraphase Homer J. Simpson, I hope you didn’t brain your damage! ;)

Stephen J. Cannell shows ended with him typing on an old typewriter, ripping the said piece of paper out and tossing it, which turned into the letter C.

And everyone knows that producer Gary David Goldberg is the guy saying sit Ubu, Sit.

*UBU Productions, Inc., is a production company founded by producer Gary David Goldberg. Its notable productions include Family Ties (1982-1989), Brooklyn Bridge (1991-1993), and Spin City (1996-2002).

UBU’s “mascot” is Goldberg’s dog Ubu Roi, a black labrador retriever. The closing tag for UBU’s productions is a photograph of Ubu Roi with a flying disc in his mouth, with a male voice saying: “Sit, Ubu, sit! Good dog!” This is followed by a bark. The dog was named after Ubu Roi, an 1896 play by Alfred Jarry that is considered the defining classic of the Dada art movement in theater. Ubu died in 1984.*

No, of course I didn’t lift the last paragraph completely from Wikipedia, how can you ask such a question?????

By ssiscribe

January 5, 2007 06:25 AM | Link to this

Man, if I didn’t have a wife, two kids and one of those rare newspaper jobs that requires me to get up with the world at 5:30 a.m. (as opposed to going to bed at 2 a.m.), I’d love to sit here and blog all night.

Grinch, DOB, Oregon, et al, that was some great stuff last night (actually, I should say, this morning). I can truly say, as well, that at times I look back at what I’ve put myself through, and the fact I can even type a coherent sentence is amazing.

Man, it’s freakin HOT outside. I just turned the A/C on. Great weather for a hockey game tonight down at Philips. Go Thrashers! I’ll be there.

How long until spring training? Five weeks from Wednesday? I’d weigh in on Bonds, but I’ve got two kids to wake, dress and feed, and a weekend edition to get started on here shortly.

Peace, and a good day to all. As we say on the island where I used to lay my humble head, selah.

—30—

By berigan

January 5, 2007 06:52 AM | Link to this

Hey Grinch, wanna see a video? :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8022760641674180799&q=rem+everybody Relax, it’ll make you forgot all about drivin’ N’ Cryin’

By The Murf

January 5, 2007 07:44 AM | Link to this

How is this even in question?

By Paul

January 5, 2007 07:51 AM | Link to this

A lot of talk here in the New York area that the Omar is trying to land one of Oakland’s young pitchers (Blanton or Haren) for Milledge and Heilman and a prospect. Dave, if thats the case, is there a chance that the Braves get involved (JS already got the best of Beane in a previous trade). I’m sure that the Braves could put together a better package. After seeing Milledge play in person, I wasn’t that impressed. Everyone here in New York feel his trade value is decreasing. (especially after hitting a game tying homerun and high fiving the fans in the top of the tenth)

By Ray

January 5, 2007 07:51 AM | Link to this

Dave, I agree with you in regards to Bonds. His numbers were HOF well before he blew up physically. I thought a few years ago he would retire the season before he broke Hank’s record for respect for Hank and secondly he would not have to answer as many questions. Obviously I very well may be mistaken on that. I do believe it will be hard for him to break the record this year. To some of the posts in regards to Pete Rose, No he should not be in the Hall. Technically he already is in, his stuff is in. He betted on the game. Number ONE no-no. He flat out lied to everyone for 13 years. If you ever heard conversations with his former teammates, like Morgan, Schmidt and especially Bench, all HOF’s and they say no. Morgan and Schmidt more politically correct but Bench (which there has never been a love affair there) definitely says no way. What he did to himself and to baseball is far worse than what Big Mac ever did and Bonds for that matter. IF Pete was ever genuine then maybe just maybe yes. In regards to Kelly Johnson yes it does look like it is HIS position to lose. Not blazing speed but good speed. The art of stealing bases is NOT always from the fastest, it helps but quickness, intelligence and good jumps can make a difference. But we all must remember, even when we have had guys up there with terrific speed they were never among the leaders in sb’s. Is it spring training yet?

By Ray

January 5, 2007 08:07 AM | Link to this

This years hof candidates—Gwynn and Cal Jr is what is RIGHT with the game of baseball. To sit and listen to Gwynn talk about hitting, his discussions with Ted Williams, just talking about the game simply fascinating. Cal, perfect no but none of us are but no one can question his desire and more importantly his RESPECT for the game. How fitting that these two go in at the same time. On another note, with the Angels getting Hillenbrand sp? would that possibly open the door for a Kotchman, Santana and Figgins trade to the Braves? Yes its all speculation. Not the biggest fan of Figgins. Nice addition but I still say if KJ gets off to a decent start we could have our leadoff guy. I like the mindset he has. He appears to be a very heads-up player.

By Randy Howard

January 5, 2007 08:23 AM | Link to this

Has anyone ever heard of “Fast twitch” Muscle Fibers? These muscle fibers control how quick your muscle reacts when the brain tells it to perform a particular task. They determine how fast a runner leaves the starting block, a tennis player increases racket speed during a serve and, oh my! a baseball players bat speed. Is it possible that decreasing the time it takes to put the bat in motion would be important in generating bat speed? Steroids help the muscle to recover after a strenuous workout, therefore allowing you to work out longer and more often. At baseball player wants to be strong, but, he also has to be quick. Instead of spending all of his time power lifting in order to be as strong as possible, he uses less weights, does more reps, faster, in order to increase the performance of fast twitch fibers as opposed to the, slow twitch fibers, which are used for strength.

Less reaction speed results in less contact, no contact and the direction the ball travels off the bat.

Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire should not be allowed into the hall of fame because of the home runs they have hit, most of which were produced by steroids.

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 08:39 AM | Link to this

Shaun, at 4:24 you said Nolan Ryan never won 20 games in a season. Actually, he won 20 games in back to back seasons, 1973 and 74. (21 and 22 wins respectively)15 short years later, in 1989, a 42 year old Ryan won 16 games, pitched 236 innings(More innings than all but one pitcher in 2006) He also struck out 301 batters that same season. 56 more than the ML leader last year. Careerwise, he also has 1100 more strikeouts than the next on the list(Roger Clemens) His 5386 career innings pitched are the 5th highest in the history of the game. Phil Neikro pitched in 18 more innings. the other 3? All retired 80 or more years ago. Ryan’s 61 career Shutouts are 7th most in the history of the game. He’s not overrated in my book.

Nolan Ryan won 20 games twice, sorry. How many times did Steve Carlton win 20 games in a career that started around the same time as Ryan’s but didn’t last as long? I know wins aren’t perfect for measuring a pitcher but it’s pretty telling that Carlton probably played on more bad teams.

Ryan is on the list of top 100 BB seasons of all time five times. That list is dominated by pitchers from the 1800’s who threw 300-600 or more innings a year. Only two other post-1960 seasons are on the list (one by Phil Niekro and one by Joe Coleman).

Only one of Ryan’s seasons is in the top 100 in adjusted ERA (ERA adjusted for league and ballpark) and ERA. You would expect one of the most dominant pitchers of all-time to appear on that least at least a few times.

I’m not trying to knock Ryan, he was amazing and should be in the Hall. But he’s not in the class of Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Warren Spahn, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Tom Seaver, etc. He’s closer to Don Sutton, Bert Blyleven, Gaylord Perry.

By Ray

January 5, 2007 08:42 AM | Link to this

Randy, yes Fast Twitch is not new but some hitters more and more are being tested for it. Albert P. apparently has one of the quickest responses. Quite a few years ago, I believe it was on the discovery channel (could be wrong on that) but they were showing hitters from all sorts of angles. Using a graph, you could see what so many of them had in common for instance in head movement. They showed Gwynn, Ted Williams, Mattingly, Musial and I forget who the other was but it was pretty fascinating. DOB you might check on this but IF I remember correctly that Gwynn never in his career had much of a consecutive game hitting streak. Maybe just maybe one time he had a 20 game hit streak. Useless stat but someone with his speed yes he once had speed and his bat never had long streaks. And mr gwynn is the all time stolen base leader for the Padres. he was not always fat. hmmm oversized, and I don’t mean like Mark Big Mac. Tony I think just ate them.

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 08:44 AM | Link to this

Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire should not be allowed into the hall of fame because of the home runs they have hit, most of which were produced by steroids.

Jayson Stark brought up a good point on ESPN: Where do you draw the line? If you keep them out, you have to keep most great hitters and pitchers who had their best seasons in the 1990’s out.

By KC

January 5, 2007 08:48 AM | Link to this

Barry Bonds??? Come on DOB, BB doesn’t deserve this much ink!!! If you wrote a movie review for Beautician and the Beast, I’d be more likely to ready it than a blog about that idiot.

By RyanSlade

January 5, 2007 08:49 AM | Link to this

DOB — So you think the Baldelli talks are done? He is a player I think Atl really needed to get. He could replace AJ in CF when he leaves, bat leadoff, and is very affordable. I have not heard any rumors dealing with him lately? What is your take on that?

I watched The Office/Earl, they were great. My wife does not appreciate the Earl humor, but we both love the Office.

By KC

January 5, 2007 09:02 AM | Link to this

I’ll make one comment on Barry, and then I’ll commit to waste no further mental energy on him for the remainder of 2007…

Would Barry be a Hall of Famer without steroids? Yes, absolutely. However, when a guy cheats… you don’t simply remove whatever it is you feel he accomplish because of cheating, and then judge him on the balance. You have to remove the accomplishments that resulted from the cheating and take away quite a few points on top of that for the fact that he cheated.

Pitchers, in the NL West especially, have likely had their numbers affected to some measurable degree by Barry Bonds… in large part because he cheated, and used substances that allowed him to hit 80 homers. So by cheating, he not only inflated his numbers, but he hurt the numbers of opposing pitchers. Now when you naturally hurt the numbers of opposing pitchers, that’s great! That’s what you’re supposed to do. But when you cheat to do it… you’re essentially stealing from them. So let me say this very clearly: Barry Bonds got where he is today (on the heels of the most sacred record in all of sports) largely by stealing from other players.

And when you consider that pitchers, like all players, get paid based on their performance… he literally stole from them to get where he is now. There’s no place for a guy like that in baseball or in the Hall of Fame.

By KC

January 5, 2007 09:10 AM | Link to this

Shaun: I don’t think there should be any confusion as to where you draw the line. If there is significant evidence to suggest that a player used steroids, then he is not allowed in the HOF. Period.

There may be players that appear to have used them, but no evidence. If you have nothing to go on, you can’t in good conscience keep that player off the ballot. But that is not the case with either Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire.

I wish MLB would grow some balls, and officially make any player that’s tested positive for steroids, or against whom there is substantial evidence of steroid use, inelligible fot the HOF.

By 3trees

January 5, 2007 09:12 AM | Link to this

Don’t forget that “Bring the Family” also has that great lineup that toured as Little Village - Cooder, Lowe, Keltner and Hiatt and the full version of “Thing Called Love” as well. I really love the next more - “Slow Turning” which includes my fav Hiatt tune, “Icy Blue Heart”. GREAT writer.

Agree on Sexsmith. Dude can go from singer-songwriter stuff to 70’s styled Philly soul really well. He’s got the gift of melody.

Oh and on Johnny Winter; its not current, but “Hey Where’s Your Brother” from ‘92 is pretty good. His tone that record is huge.

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 09:14 AM | Link to this

Jayson Stark brought up a good point on ESPN: Where do you draw the line? If you keep out McGwire and Bonds, you have to keep all the great hitters and pitchers who had their best seasons in the 1990’s out. We don’t know who used and who didn’t.

By HotelManagement

January 5, 2007 09:21 AM | Link to this

DOB and Grinch—-you 2 need to get a room for cryin’ out loud!

By RoomService

January 5, 2007 09:24 AM | Link to this

Shaun and KC—-you 2 need to get a room too!

By Ray

January 5, 2007 09:26 AM | Link to this

I think Nolan’s 7 NO-Hitters speak for themselves and his Angels teams were not very good. Ryan never had the benefit of playing on a very good team.. not counting the Mets. He was a non-factor there. Throwing one no-hitter okay the stars were aligned perfectly for you that day, two,, okay you are living right but SEVEN, now THAT may never be touched like Joe D’s 56 mark and Cal’s streak. (Another tidbit on Cal’s streak, did you know he played in over 93% of the innings that his team played in. I know Gehrig was sick at the end but he only played over 56% of his teams innings) SS a little more demanding than First Base. More useless knowledge I know. Back to Ryan, he had quite a few back problems early on his career. You rack up those K’s and those No hitters and still throw like he did. I say he is more a step up above Gaylord and Bert etc. I remember one of his last years with the Rangers and in the 8th inning he was still getting clocked in the mid 90’s.

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 09:39 AM | Link to this

I wish MLB would grow some balls, and officially make any player that’s tested positive for steroids, or against whom there is substantial evidence of steroid use, inelligible fot the HOF.

Is there “substantial evidence” that McGwire used them? I agree that he probably did but good luck finding the substantial evidence especially after 7-8 years.

If you keep Bonds and McGwire out, what do you do with Biggio and Bagwell and Clemens? They looked like they could have done steroids. Is that considered substantial evidence? Who would have thought Palmeiro did steroids before the positive test? How can we ever know who did and didn’t?

It’s just too complex an issue. How can anyone assume one player is clean and not another from that era? And there really is no evidence against most of the players that probably did it. I haven’t seen or heard any substantial evidence that McGwire or Sosa did it (even though I do believe they did).

By Joe

January 5, 2007 09:47 AM | Link to this

Dave,

Need to check out Grayson Capps…His music is all over the “Love Song for Bobby Long” soundtrack. Saw his show live and he put on an astoundingly good show.

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 09:49 AM | Link to this

Ray,

Ryan obviously was a great pitcher, but he’s not among the best of the best as some have suggested; he’s not in the top 5 all-time and probably not top 10.

He’s not in the same class as Roger Clemens or Tom Seaver or Walter Johnson or Maddux, etc.

The no-hitters are remarkable and the strikeouts are remarkable but he walked a lot of hitters, and not just because he stuck around a long time. He was one of the wildest pitchers in history.

Only one thing matters in no-hitters—giving up hits. Ryan was good at not giving up hits, probably better than anyone. But what about all those walks? He walked hitters at historic levels. That makes up for a lot of the hits he did not allow.

Look, again, I’m not trying to knock him. He’s a HOFer and deserves it. He’s just overrated by a lot of people.

By Red

January 5, 2007 09:52 AM | Link to this

Will the real DOB please stand up? I don’t know whether I should be looking for your column in the “entertainment” section or in the sports section. I used to look forward to reading your column, but it’s becoming a drag to try to ferret out the sports parts.

By BigEditor

January 5, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Red—-how could you have read a “column” by DOB?—-DOB isn’t a columnist, just a lowly beat writer…

By Matthew

January 5, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Wow. Some really eclectic tastes on this blog with respect to music, movies, and television. Speaking of TV, check out public TV in your area to see if you can get “Are You Being Served?” It’s a British comedy from the ’70s and ’80s. Hilarious.

For me, if the HOF has a written policy that states a player is selected only for their stats or achievements, and not their behavior or subsequent actions, then I too must grudingly accept Barroid in the HOF. He did post great numbers before he had that flax seed oil or whatever (insert sarcastic smirk here).

If they had to, I suppose the HOF could make a rule barring steroid abusers from the Hall, but have it be effective from the date of the rule change. It wouldn’t affect Barroid, Mac, and others from the “juiced” era, but I have a strong suspicion that with the exception of Bonds, the others won’t make it anyway. It would keep out future cheaters, though.

For those who play the race card, here’s ascenario for you. Could it be that the NAACP has some incriminating information on HOF voters and has threatened to reveal it if they allow that whitey Mark McGwire in the Hall but keep Sosa or Bonds out? Stupid, right? I know, and it’s just as stupid to suggest that Barroid’s entry into the HOF is going to be determined based on the color of his skin. It’s just dumb. Barry will get in or will be shut out based on (1) his stats, (2) whether or not MLB and Congress release conclusive findings that he cheated, and (3) voters’ personal opinions of Bonds, with respect to the way that they were treated by Bonds. Race will not enter the equation-period.

Good grief, it’s a good thing I don’t post very often.

Oh, Dawg fans, I almost forgot. Is Coach Richt’s job still secure? If not, let me know. Arkansas is going to need a new coach when Frank Broyles (our AD-think Methuselah for age) dies. Our coach is already picking out furniture for the AD office, and we’d be glad to take Richt off your hands if you don’t want him.

Go Braves!

By bigzz

January 5, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN SAID A MILLION TIMES, BUT ITS STILL TRUE, STEROIDS DOES NOT HELP ONE SEE AND HIT A BASEBALL, PERIOD!!! NATURAL BORN SKILLS DOES. YOU CAN’T JUST TAKE ANY JOE BLOW OF THE STREETS, FEED THEM STEROIDS, AND THEN EXPECT HIM TO HIT A 95 MPH FASTBALL, ITS JUST COMMON SENSE, BUT I GUESS COMMON SENSE ISN’T ALL THAT COMMON. BONDS, MCGWIRE, ROSE IN THE HALL OF FAME, IT WOULD BE TRAVESTY IF THEY NEVER GOT INTO HALL OF FAME

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

Ray,

The 7 no-hitters mean that Ryan was the best pitcher in history at keeping guys from getting hits, which is great but there is more to pitching than just keeping guys from getting hits. Keeping guys from getting walks or homeruns or getting on-base any other way is pretty important, too. Ryan’s walk rate is historically bad (which is why he has only one season in the top 100 in ERA) and why he is not one of the top 10 pitchers ever. Notice I said walk rate not walk total. He didn’t just walk a lot of guys because of all those innings, he walked guys at a historically high rate.

By John Adcox

January 5, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

O’Brien lies not. Hiatt is terrific. I haven’t gotten to Sexsmith yet, but Hiatt reminds me a lot of Fred Eaglesmith. His lyrics are terrific; I think I’d like reading them even without music. Strong stuff.

So back at y’all: The Complete Phoenix Concerts by John Stewart. One of the reviewers calls him an unknown living legend and a secret American icon. That’s dead on. July You’re a Woman and Mother Country are worth the price all by themselves. Don’t miss this. It’s special. It’s important.

By Alan

January 5, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Someone hours ago questioned Tony Gwynn’s HOF credentials and everyone let it go. Are you serious?! The guy was a hit machine! Every bit as good - probably better, actually - than Wade Boggs, who got in (deservedly) his first try. Ripken and Gwynn are shoo-ins, with very high vote totals. I don’t see how anyone could not vote for either one. (Of course, some numb-nuts will omit them and vote for Al Oliver or Gene Oliver or Laurence Olivier but that kind of crap happens every year.) Ripken and Gwynn’s popularity will hurt everyone else who’s eligible (sorry, Al, Gene and Larry) and I doubt anyone else will get in this time. Regarding “cutting edge” TV, my personal cable favorites are Prison Break (on FOX) and Nip/Tuck on FX. In the ’80s, I loved Wiseguy on CBS. Ken Wahl was good, but Kevin Spacey and Joan Severance (as incestuous half-sibling “bad guys”) were incredible. Great show.

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

bigzz,

Steroids helps you hit the ball harder and farther. Steroids alone can’t get you to the major leagues or make you a Hall of Famer but it can push you to that next level. They could make an average player great and a great player a Hall of Famer depending on their skill sets.

By Matthew

January 5, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Shaun:

I get your point about Ryan, but when a guy gets 491 votes out of a possible 497, from people who spend their lives covering the game, I’d say that guy was pretty special.

As to his walks, he still had better than a 2-1 K/BB ratio. He walked a lot of batters, but he had over 5700 strikeouts (the all-time leader by 1100 over Clemens). In 26 seasons, (I don’t count 1966 because he only pitched in 2 games), he averaged 219 straikeouts per year, every years, for almost three decades. That’s freaking good. He only had two 20-win seasons, so I see where you might think he’s overrated. Against Cy Young, Walter Johnson, and Christy Mathewson, he probably is. But they are in two different eras. So are Seaver and (mostly) Maddux. I think Ryan definitely needs to be placed in the Top 15 of all time, and perhaps in the Top Ten.

I’m not going to take the effort to try and duel statistics with you (mostly because I’d lose), and I don’t mean anything by it, but I am very impressed with Ryan’s stats. So too were the HOF voters.

By Matthew

January 5, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Shaun:

As I was typing my last post, your 10:15 post appeared. I get your argument now. Thanks for the clarification.

Other question-Will Smoltzy get Strikeout #3000 this year? He needs 227. Also, how many wins and strikeouts do you think he would have were it not for the four years he spent closing? Looking at his career at that point, ignoring the injury, I’m guessing he’d be at about 255 wins (assuming an average of 15 wins per year) and about 3300 strikeouts (assuming an average of 190 per year). I loked at the three seasons before his injury, and averaged the numbers for my guesses. What do you all think?

By Alan

January 5, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

John Turtorro (or is it Torturro? - can’t spell his last name - first is easy, though) is a terrific actor. He’s great in The Good Shepherd, as is everyone else. He’s the best of a really good cast. I’m pretty sure that Nicholas T (late of NYPD Blue) is his little brother - accent on “little” - JT looks like a BIG guy.

By kdbanks

January 5, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Another show coming up everyone should check out is The Beggars’ Guild at Smith’s Olde Bar on Jan. 26. Saw them open up for The Damnwells at The Earl this fall, and they blew me away. A local band as well, I might add.

On the enhancing drugs chat, my biggest issue is how distorted statistics have become, which makes comparing players across generations so hard. One of my favorite parts of the game is how I can talk with my dad about great players from the past and debate who was better. I never saw Stan Musial or Harmen Killebrew hit, but I’ve seen A-Rod and Pujols. With the suspicion of steroids, though, it almost makes the conversation moot. Who knows whether those stats are legit? I don’t, and it takes away the fun of it.

The glory of baseball is that you can get something out of watching just one game, one whole season, or 50 seasons, and there’s something there. I just hope we get past this mess soon, so 30 years from now I can debate with my son about John Smoltz and Roger Clemens as opposed to whoever the stars are then.

By KC

January 5, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Shaun: When a congressional committee asked Mark McGuire if he had used steroids, he answered: “I have been advised by my attorney not to answer that”.

That’s enough for me. I realize that pleading the 5th is not legally considered incriminating evidence, but the reality is that everyone in the world knew the truth after that response. The thing is… eligibility for the HOF is not a criminal trial issue, and you don’t have to measure your criterion by that standard. If I were Commissioner, I would treat him as a steroid user. If he wants to sue and insist that he was innocent… let him. But he wouldn’t do that. He knows what he did, and seems genuinely ashamed of it. Good for him. We all make bad decisions in life. I hope he enjoys his retirement, and has a terrific life. But if he cheated, and he did, he doesn’t belong in the Hall.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 5, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

this should make everyone feel good and will have you humming all day …

Well, beat the drum and hold the phone - the sun came out today! We’re born again, there’s new grass on the field. *A-roundin’ third, and headed for home, it’s a brown-eyed handsome man; Anyone can understand the way I feel.

CHORUS: Oh, put me in, Coach - I’m ready to play today; Put me in, Coach - I’m ready to play today; Look at me, I can be Centerfield.

Well, I spent some time in the Mudville Nine, watchin’ it from the bench; You know I took some lumps when the Mighty Casey struck out. So Say Hey Willie, tell Ty Cobb and Joe DiMaggio; Don’t say “it ain’t so”, you know the time is now.

CHORUS

Yeah! I got it, I got it!

Got a beat-up glove, a homemade bat, and brand-new pair of shoes; You know I think it’s time to give this game a ride. Just to hit the ball and touch ‘em all - a moment in the sun; (pop) It’s gone and you can tell that one goodbye!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 5, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

DOB,

You mentioned CSI lastnight, and it got me to thinking, again. A while back somebody asked what you look like, and I replied that I envision you a looking like Horatio Caine on CSI: Miami. How close am I??? Just curious as to how sharp my instincts are.

With a name like AR Hillbilly, I wouldn’t be surprised if people imagine me looking like “Bull” in El Dorado. Rolled up overalls, no shoes, long beard, three and a half teeth, chewing on a piece of grass, with a Black and Tan coon dog and a cork-top jug labeled “XXX” laying beside my rocking chair on the porch.

Man I need to find something to do, today. =)

By Shaun

January 5, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

KC,

If your commissioner, what are you going to say about McGwire? I’m keeping him out because he said no comment? What do you do with Biggio, Bagwell, Clemens who didn’t have to testify for anything?

By Ray

January 5, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Shaun, We are in agreement on a couple of things. Is Ryan a top 10 of all time NO. Without any effort I can think of 10 better pitchers all time. Was he wild, oh yeah no doubt. Over-rated hmmm not so sure. But I would still put him ahead of Bert B and Gaylord. So my personal opinion is that he is somewhere between the likes of Johnson, Clemens, Koufax, Maddux and the Suttons, Perry’s and Blylevens. In regards to Bonds, yes everyone know he is a tool. Before he juiced up.. he was one of the GREATEST Left fielders of all time and for many years. The 8 gold gloves, the offensive stats. I don’t use the word GREAT too often but he was and IF his career ended by ‘98 he would have still been nominated and selected into the hof.

By Ray

January 5, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

I HOPE no one suggested that Gwynn didn’t have the credentials for the HOF. Glad I missed that a*******clown remark. What still amazes me about the HOF is that NO player in History has ever gotten voted 100%. Those that didn’t vote for Aaron, RUTH, Williams need to be stripped of their voting power. Rip and Gwynn will not receive 100% to keep up that tradition. But how can any writer not vote for them or in the future Griffey Jr or A-Rod. One question to all… Would John Smoltz be voted in the hall?

By Jim

January 5, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Bigzz,

Steroids do not help you make contact with a baseball, but they can help determine your approach at the plate. Early in his career, especially in the 91-92 playoff series, the Brave pitchers could get Barry out with low outside pitches. He was trying to do too much in important games and would try to pull too many pitches. After he was “born again”, he could take those pitches out to left field. He became more selective and could drive a greater variety of pitches.

By Chuck

January 5, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

If Bonds is admitted to the HALL OF FAME how can they not admit anyone including PETE ROSE the greatest since the scooter.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 5, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Alan,

I thought Turturo did an awesome job in “Secret Window” with Johnny Depp, too.

By KC

January 5, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

I just read Bill Shanks most recent blog on the state of the Braves… good stuff. Here’s a link: http://mb7.scout.com/fatlantabravesfrm1.showMessage?topicID=26181.topic You’ll have to sign up at scout.com, and “apply” to access the forums (don’t ask me, I have not clue), but it doesn’t take long.

Anyway, one thing I passionately agree with Bill Shanks on… we need to try to trade Andruw… NOW. Yes, I know what Boras said “Andruw won’t accept a trade” blah, blah, blah. I’m just not convinced of that. If the Braves could work something out with a deep-pocketed, warm weather winning team like the Dodgers or Angels, Andruw could go ahead and lock up his 18-20 million a season right now with a nice fat signing bonus he would receive immediately. I think a deal could get done.

Let’s say we got Figgins and a top prospect from the California… I mean Anaheim… I mean LA (the Angels). I’m not saying that Figgins and whoever else we get will contribute as much this year as Andruw would have, but we’d at least get our leadoff man, and we’d save 8 million this season. That money could be used for something else now, or we could simply sock it away for next season… and go into 2008 knowing that we can spend at least 88 mill.

Keeping Andruw helps us in 07’, but probably hurts us long-term (assuming he leaves after this season). I’d love to see him traded, but if he stays I’ll look on the bright side… at least we know the Braves will have no trouble scoring runs this season, and we know we’ve got his glove for at least one more season.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

“he (Big Mac) was also one of the very, very few players I’ve ever watched that kept me absolutely riveted to every second of one of his at-bats. If he kept fouling off pitches, I’d let food burn on the stove before I’d turn away. And when he cranked one…there are home runs and there are home runs. Dude was a force of nature. That’s got to count for something.”

Completely agree Grinch. The guy was bigger than the game, bigger than real life for 4 or 5 years. I look at the Hall of Fame like this… Can you tell the history of major league baseball without mentioning player x’s name? If the answer to that question is no, then he’s a hall of famer. And if you ask me, you can’t tell the story of MLB without including McGwire or Sosa for that matter. And, as far as him being a “liar and a cheat”, that’s just B.S. Cuz if you hold McGwire out of the hall of fame for those reasons, then we should go back and remove Gaylord Perry(cheater), Ty Cobb(liar and a bigot), and Babe Ruth(liar) from the hall too…

By KC

January 5, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

However, to argue with myself a little here… I think we all, including me, fall into the thinking that the Braves are going to be at this 80 million a year payroll level forever. Let’s not forget that we will have new ownership at some point this year. There is a very significant chance that they will loosen the purse strings at least a little. And that might be one more reason why JS hasn’t pursued (if in face he hasn’t) any attempt at dealing Andruw.

AJ will get 18-20 million from someone on the open market in a year from now. But I think a contract similar to the one the Astros gave Carlos Guillen (6 years-100 mill) just might do it. Andruw won’t re-sign for 14-15 mill per season, but something close to 17 million per, such as the Guillen deal, might be enough given that he wants to stay in ATL.

Would I offer him 6 years-100 mill with an 80 mill payroll? NO WAY! But if - and I know this is a lot to hope for - Liberty bumped the payroll back up to the 95 million range… then I would certainly consider making that offer.

By Dusty Baker

January 5, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

I do not want Barry Bonds to be elected to the Hall of Fame and dang sure don’t want him to break the record of the classiest man ever in baseball, Hank Aaron.

By KC

January 5, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Shaun: First of all, unlike Weasel Selig… I would launch an investigation on any player that we have reason to be suspicious of. I believe in McGuire’s case, an investigation would almost certainly turn up evidence. Maybe not proof of the variety that would be hold up in a court of law… but enough to bolster the case against McGuire.

Again, making a player ineligible for the Hall of Fame is not the same thing as charging a person with a crime. It’s not absolutely necessary that you have proof. MLB has the right to decide which players it honors. I don’t think there’s much a player can do about it. Now of course, you have to be responsible. You have to be sure (as everyone is in McGuire’s case) that the player in question did in fact use steroids, but again… MLB doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone.

The Commissioner can simply state that a player’s ineligible for the Hall of Fame, and offer very little official explanation (though it would be a secret to no one).

By rammerjammer

January 5, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

After seeing what Boros got for Zito and Drew, why on earth would they limit Andruw’s value by taking a trade now?

Absolutely no one could’ve predicted the outrageous salaries handed out this post season, so whatever anyone thinks Andruw is worth now, keep in mind he’ll be worth much more next November, ESPECIALLY if he leads the Braves to a title.

AJ’s ONLY risk is if he has a bad season or is injured, but the odds are in his favor that neither of those will happen.

And even if the payroll goes up, the Braves need to think about McCann, Frenchy, even LaRoche and how they’re going to pay to keep those guys in Atlanta.

In other words, if the Braves DID sign Andruw, it would mean saying goodbye within five years to younger, talented players they couldn’t afford.

I say enjoy Andruw this season, hope he has a monster one, and continue to fine-tune for the future.

I remember all those great Aaron years in Atlanta, but one Hall of Famer couldn’t produce a winning franchise. It takes lots of parts, and the Braves will win long after AJ is gone.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

And, everyone just assumes certain players did steroids cuz of their physical appearance. How do you know? I guarantee you NOBODY on this blog, or in the entire country for that matter, was labeling Palmeiro a guilty steroid using cheater before he tested positive. If you say you did, you’re a flat out LIAR! Now, let me throw this out, (and I’m sure I’ll be hammered for it cuz this guy gets better publicity than the pope) but how does anyone on this blog, or sportswriters voting for the hall, know that Cal Ripken Jr. wasn’t using steroids? What is the biggest benefit of using steroids? It’s not simply increasing your power, it’s about adding STAMINA AND ENDURANCE. Steroids allow you to play on that sixth straight day of a 9 game road trip, not just to hit bombs. It just p** me off the way everyone assumes guilt on guys who hit HR’s and who have alot of muscle, while everyone else gets off scot-free…

By Greg in TN

January 5, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Happy Friday everyone…

Unless a team comes through with a trade offer that’s too good for JS to pass up, I believe this is the group which will arrive in Florida next month. I do believe that if circumstances change and JS is able to swing a deal during spring training, he will do so. I am happy with where we’re at in terms of the offseason moves and the roster in general.

On Bonds - I can understand DOB’s argument that Bonds deserves enshrinement based on his numbers earlier in his career. That being said, I wouldn’t shed a tear if he wasn’t allowed in. To me, the guy is slime, pure and simple. There are two reasons why I think Bonds hitting a 756th homerun would be horrible. First, IMO, it would be another blow to the integrity of the game (it has already taken a pretty good hit to this point with what has transpired). Secondly, and I admit this is much more selfish, I don’t want anyone breaking Hank’s record, much less Bonds and especially in the way he’s doing it.

On Rose - I also wouldn’t be upset if Rose remains out of the HOF. I do think that if circumstances change and Rose is allowed in, there had better be a contingency to look at other cases where players are banned or there will be a strong revolt by many. After all, using the same argument in the steroids, where do you draw that line? DOB, I do differ with you on one thing. I can’t make a distinction between a player betting and a manager betting (if I read your earlier post on that correctly). IMO, it’s even more important that a manager not get caught up in betting (regardless of whether he bet on his team or not), so I wouldn’t be comfortable saying a player should be absolutely banned without doing the same for a manager.

On McGwire - I really don’t want to talk about the past… Oops, sorry, that slipped out. I don’t think McGwire belongs in either based on the arguments that have been made by DOB and others.

On Murphy - I understand there are those that don’t feel he should be in due to his batting average, but I’m not one of them. I don’t think his defense gets nearly enough credit from most folks. I think the more we are removed from the steroid ball era, many will look back with more appreciation as to the stats that were put up by the sluggers in the 80’s.

By Greg in TN

January 5, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

bigzz,

One other argument is that over a 162 game schedule the average ballplayer wears down. Your argument is only valid when you talk about hand-eye coordination. Steroids does nothing to aid a hitter there. What it does allow, is a stronger player who I feel is able to be a much more viable and productive in their last 30 games than a player that doesn’t take anything.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

KC, next up is Beautician and the Beast, then. Since spilling that much “ink” (how’s ink spilled on the internet, or into the ether?) on Barry obviously didn’t deter you from reading and posting (repeatedly).

By the way, do you just think you’re smarter and/or tougher than the rest of us and baseball officials, too, regarding your suggested full-court press of an investigation into ‘roid users? Problem is, you’re coming at it from mentality of a 60-minute neat-and-tidy courtroom TV show. In other words, from a dramatic but totally unrealistic perspective.

Or have you not heard about the investigation that Selig hired highly respected former senator George Mitchell to conduct? You might have forgotten about it for one reason: It ain’t producing squat. You know why? Because nobody’s cooperating. Players aren’t talking to him because they don’t have to, and they wouldn’t talk to you or anyone you hired to investigate, because they don’t have to.

If it’s not the feds or some other criminal justice types coming at ‘em with threats of incarceration and the like, they’re not commenting or helping out anymore because they don’t have to.

And you can threaten to keep out McGwire and everyone else from the Hall of Fame, but so what? After that doesn’t get you any results, how else you going to get to bottom of this _ cue the Perry Mason theme music _ Mr. I Have the Answers?

Dude, I don’t mean to make light of your suggestions, but why is it that you think you are so much smarter or that you have the best interests of the game at heart more than everyone else who’s tried to figure out and stop the steroid madness?

Few things get in the way: People’s rights. A powerful union. A collective bargaining agreement. No test for growth hormone or THG. Little things like that. But don’t let that keep you from pontificating, by any means….

Meanwhile, you’re probably not getting tremendous response on the trade-Andruw topic because we’ve simply exhausted the freakin’ subject for the past, oh, five months. Or ever since he first was put on waivers. What new could possibly be said?…

RAY, BigEditor’s right, just a lowly beat writer. So I guess, just read the blog or go find a columnist. Sorry to disappoint. ‘Tis what it ‘tis, bro.

By Jim

January 5, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

If KJ can play an adequate to good 2B, I don’t think we need a Chone Figgins. (If we were to trade Andruw, we would need pitching, and/or a blue-chip prospect(s) in return.) KJ has better than average speed, good plate discipline, and a nice short stroke. I liked what I saw briefly in ‘05, and think that he will have a better than .350 OBP with 10-20 HR and 25+ 2Bs if he plays regularly. If AJ really loses 15 pounds, Francouer develops a bit more discipline at the plate, Chipper stays healthy, and KJ can play 2B, we should have a better offensive team than last year to go along with a better bullpen and a returning (hopefully to form) Hampton. At this point (on paper), this team has the best chance of getting to the playoffs and winning games once there than any Braves team since 2003. We can’t trade our best run-producer for what might or might not be a better opportunity in the future.

By Drummerdad

January 5, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Lew, Here’s your Johnny Winter: * http://johnnywinter.net/bluesman/* Looks like a recent release. My favorite Winter endeavor was Edgar Winter with White Trash. Before the Blues Brothers, there was that band, and they were phenomenal. Had Rick Derringer on guitar. the energy level was off any meter and the horn section was tight and rocked.

Braveswise: It’s starting to look like no major deals are going to be done until they get to Spring Training and can evaluate the cards in the deck. Maybe we’ll see a deal then, but I think that now that the Braves have come back to the pack that other GM’s are driving hard deals with JS and he’s not biting.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

GREG in TN: If Rose was a Hall candidate as a manager, absolutely he shouldn’t get in. My point, and I really don’t want to start defending it again because it’s just my opinion, is that he belongs in the Hall FOR WHAT HE DID AS A PLAYER. REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED AFTER HIS PLAYING CAREER ENDED. Period. If, say, Joe Torre were ever connected to gambling while managing _ and he’s ABSOLUTELY NOT BEEN, I’m just making a point _ then he’s not eligible for the Hall in my book, under no circumstances, since his managerial career is integral to his getting in the Hall.

Pete belongs in the Hall for what he did as a player, in my opinion (and for what it’s worth, 97 percent of current players I surveyed for the SI survey last year), completely separate from his managerial career. Again, if there were ever any allegations that he also bet as a player, any suspicions or accusations of such, then I’d immediately change my stance and say he shouldn’t be in the Hall. I’m saying he belongs there solely for his playing career, before he sullied it all with his gambling in his post-playing career as a manager.

That’s it for me on the subject. Brain’s tired on that one.

By Carroll

January 5, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

My GAWD, peeps! Enough with the Figgins-for-leadoff mantra! HE IS NOT A GOOD LEADOFF MAN! Just look at his OBP! I think we will ALL be pleasantly pleased by KJ at 2B and leading off. It is a small miracle that none of these brain-dead trades (i.e. getting Castillo, Roberts, Figgins, etc,etc) worked out because I think he truly will be the answer we’ve been looking for, without haing to give up a 30-40 homer guy in Laroche. And this way KJ can start out the season there rather than having to sit behind some undeserving dud just because he’s one of BC’s beloved veteran players.

I do agree that AJ should be traded now, b ut I would prefer we get nothing but pitching or maybe a CF replacement for him.

By Voice of Reason

January 5, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

I’d like to toss this drive by comment out there for all of the Wilson Betemit mourners who still lament his departure from ATL. If he’s a terrific everyday player, why did LA, according to an article in the LA Times, approach Seattle at the winter meetings about re-acquiring 3B Adrian Beltre?

Also, anybody notice the blurb from Mark Bowman mentioning that “some Braves officials have indicated that they may soon start preparing Saltalamacchia to play first base.” Didn’t see that one coming, huh?

By KC

January 5, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN:

Agreed. Defense in general isn’t enough of a consideration in most cases for players on the HOF ballot. If a player was known for defense, then it’s take heavily into consideration. However, there have been many excellent defensive players who were simply known more for their offense than their defense. Murphy is one of them.

The sad truth is that if Murphy were a below average fielder, but had slightly better career offensive numbers… he’s be in the Hall right now.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

DonC, good point. Don’t know if you saw it, but I posted this last night/this morning in the week hours, regarding an article (“Is This Dr. Evil? The BALCO Chemist Comes Clean”, p. 62 of Oct. 9 Sports Illustrated, ironically the issue with baseball’s “A Team For All Time” on the cover):

There was a very good article in Sports Illustrated recently about the evil-genius doctor who’s produced a lot of the cutting-edge steroids like The Clear (THG) and others, the dude that supplied the stuff to Conte and Balco.

This guy said he gets so tired of refuting all the myths and misstatements about steroids, including the notion that steroids can’t increase your batting average.

As he said, taking testosterone (‘roids) can greatly increase your focus, allowing you to block out all the stuff around you and focus on the pitch. He said they clearly can help a batter not just increase his power, but his average. First time I’ve heard an expert talk about that aspect of it.

By Voice of Reason

January 5, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

BTW - Thanks for the reference to Rory Gallagher. That’s one guy whom I’ve kinda forgot about over time, but as I blog I’m sitting here listening to Bullfrog Blues. Great stuff…

By Robert

January 5, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

The Rose issue goes way beyond what he did on the field

First of all, if the HOF is about what a guy did on the field as a player,and his exploits as manager dont matter, then how could you Dave, support Cox to the HOF?

(of course, he merits consideration more as a player than as a manger, but that’s another story)

Beyond that, the big issue with Rose is basically this - does the game have rules or doesnt it

If you first say that “X” is a death penalty offense, and then decide later, you know what, it’s not - then basically you have no rules

To CONSIDER Pete Rose for Cooperstown is an exercise in figuring out what a travesty his betting was TO THE GAME, and TO THE FANS

To ENSHRINE Pete Rose in Cooperstown is to spit in the face of every ballplayer who lived by the commandment posted in every clubhouse

By Efrim Dragovic

January 5, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

I haven’t blogged in a while. Im sure you guys missed my negativity. KC, I agree with you on Andruw. What prospect would you want from LA Angels? Nick Adenhart would be the guy for me. Jered Weaver would also be pretty sweet, but the Angels would never do that. I think the Braves have exhausted all possibilities on trading Andruw Jones. It just isnt going to happen. It upsets me that yet again, the Braves are going to let another player walk without getting anything in return. I was watching yankees hot stove and Tom Verducci brought up a possibility that the Yankees are acquiring all of these prospects to make a trade mid season for “someone like John Smoltz”. I almost threw up. Unless Philip Hughes was involved, there is no way the Braves would or should trade John Smoltz to the Yankees. But I agree, I wish Andruw was traded for Figgins, Adenhart, and who knows maybe Brandon Wood. Although that is a lot to ask for a guy who will be on your team one year.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 5, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

*“he (Big Mac) was also one of the very, very few players I’ve ever watched that kept me absolutely riveted to every second of one of his at-bats. If he kept fouling off pitches, I’d let food burn on the stove before I’d turn away. And when he cranked one…there are home runs and there are home runs. Dude was a force of nature. That’s got to count for something.”

Completely agree Grinch. The guy was bigger than the game, bigger than real life for 4 or 5 years.*

Don C and Grinch, I can relate to that. I can’t say if I want them in the Hall or not, I do want to share this story with y’all:

I witnessed the ‘98 home run race first hand at Wrigley field. At 19 years old, me and some friends took a road trip to Wrigley to watch the Cards and Cubs in August.

Sosa hits number 48 onto or over Waveland Ave.(the most unbeleiveably majestic shot I’ve ever seen). This was the first and only time all season that he was ahead of Mac. A couple of innings later, Mac hits a top of the 9th, game tying blast to dead center. In the 10th, Mac hits another (#49) up in the shrubs in dead center, to reclaim the HR lead and stand as the eventual game winner. That was one of the most jaw-dropping, intense settings I’ve ever experienced. For two days that we were there (Night Game the day before) there was so much electricity in the air, the neighborhood around the stadium after the games looked like Mardi Gras. Tainted or not, they captivated the Nation that summer.

By KC

January 5, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

DOB: Whoooooaa man! I feel as though I’ve stepped on your toes or something, to read your response. Didn’t mean to.

First of all… you’re correct. Silly of me to bark at you for bringing up the subject, and then go on to discuss it. I’ll take my licks for the hypocrisy there. Though I will add that the Beautician and the Beast comment was made in jest. I wasn’t seriously slamming you.

David, I in no way think I’m smarter or have then best interests of the game at heart more than anyone else. Yes, you’re correct. I have to admit that I did in fact forget all about the George Mitchell investigation. Now that you mention it, I do remember hearing about it. So maybe MLB is doing everything they can to hold people accountable. I don’t know.

My feeling on the steroids thing has been that MLB has avoided the issue to a certain degree in order to try and put it behind, and end the media circus that has surrounded that situation. I think my inclination was to believe that, since MLB has been sweeping the steroids issue under the carpet for a couple decades now. I could be wrong. Maybe the investigation was a sign that they are in earnest trying to get to the bottom of some things. I’ve just been pretty PO’d at Selig and MLB for ever letting it get to this point in the first place… so I was really venting more than anything. I’m really not sure what I said to give you the impression that I think I’m smarter than anyone in MLB.

By Stinky

January 5, 2007 01:00 PM | Link to this

The act of enshrinement into the HOF would constitute ‘being associated with baseball’.

Bart Giamatti is a saint for making sure that Rose stews in his own mess for the rest of his life.

Maybe Bart’s son, Paul, could play Bart in a movie of the week. Jack Black could play Rose.

By Braves20

January 5, 2007 01:01 PM | Link to this

On Barry Big Head - the only joke even close to considering him for the HOF was his winning a Gold Glove years ago. The guy had an arm like my mother but he hit 300+. During the same era, Craig Biggio was hitting 280-290 and winning Gold Gloves when he couldn’t carry Mark Lemke’s jock but alas, the Lemmer was only a .245 hitter despite having the best glove in the NL at 2nd base since Maz. The Gold Glove award is a joke with Bonds and Biggio as two of its poster boys.

By KC

January 5, 2007 01:02 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Bill Shanks named Adenhart and Figgins as the guys he would love to see swapped for AJ. Sounds good to me.

Yeah, it’s hard to swallow any time you lose a ig bplayer and get nothing but draft picks in return.

I’m not sure if we haven’t heard any Andruw trade rumors because JS is steadfastly convinced that AJ/Boras are serious about not accepting a trade… or because no attractive offer for Andruw as been made.

Either way, it certainly doesn’t appear that he’ll be going anywhere (until next winter, that is).

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 01:07 PM | Link to this

And DOB, I’m not sure what you’re argument is for McGwire… Are you saying that his numbers are not good enough to warrant the Hall of Fame, period? Or are you saying he has good enough numbers, but you’re absolutely convinced he used steroids so you won’t put him in because of that?

If the latter is the case (which is what I believe you’re saying) then how exactly are you sure that Pete Rose didn’t gamble as a player too? How come you automatically think McGwire and Sosa and Palmeiro are lying about their past playing days, but not Pete Rose? One thing I do know, once a gambler, ALWAYS a gambler…

By ICEMAN

January 5, 2007 01:07 PM | Link to this

Mark Maguire was on steriods folks. OK. I also had a good time watching him, but a lot of you are deluded by him because his record setting event was before the steroid scandals. Had he done what he did after the scandals, you would not be so reminisant. Do you have the same love for Barry Bonds?

By KC

January 5, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this

DOB: One last thing on the steroids/HOF issue:

To reiterate something I said earlier… when a player cheats to pad his stats, he is stealing from other players, since it is impossible for your stats to become better without hurting someone else’s.

Let’s all remember, the Hall of Fame is intended to be an honor for people who have brought honor to the game. When a player cheats by using steroids, and steals from other players in the process (not to mention the fact that it’s a criminal act to use the stuff)… does that player deserve to be honored by Major League Baseball?

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 01:20 PM | Link to this

I’m so sick of all these OLD media guys trying to discredit everything the great power hitters of my generation (basically from ‘88 on) did. One thing I do know, COCAINE AND AMPHETAMINES have been around since the 1910’s, how do we know Babe Ruth wasn’t snorting coke before every game ala Steve Howe? Isn’t that a “performance enhancing drug”? And I am supposed to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Reggie Jackson or Dave Parker or Pete Rose weren’t using amphetamines or coke during their playing days? He!!, ‘roids were around in the late 1960’s (look it up), why don’t we accuse any players of doing it back then? Oh, that’s right, cuz these 40, 50, and 60 something year olds don’t want to even consider that their childhood hero’s might have been cheating… such crap…

By Thrillhouse44

January 5, 2007 01:32 PM | Link to this

DOB: I have a question about your argument for keeping Big Mac out of the HOF: Does his use of Androstenedione factor into excluding him from the Hall? If so, how can you hold that against him when the supplement was (maybe still is?) perfectly legal at the time? You could buy Andro at GNC, along with multivitamins and protein shakes.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:33 PM | Link to this

DonC, unless you know something I don’t, there were never accusations or charges that Pete bet as a player. OK, once a gambler, always a gambler. Sounds good. But no one has come forth and accused Pete of gambling as a player. That’s never been an issue, far as I know. Just as a manager.

I made my argument clear about McGwire. Hit 49 homers as rookie, more than 33 only twice more in the next eight seasons, then exploded for four huge homer seasons that nearly doubled his career total and sent his numbers to Hall-caliber. Yes, I’m certain he did ‘roids in that period. No, they weren’t outlawed by baseball. Yes, in my view they were the reason he went from very good power hitter to great.

Pete Rose didn’t cheat to get the all-time hits record. Did he take greenies? Many have said that a majority of players did. To me, that was an “acceptable” part of baseball, especially in that era, given the ridiculous grind of a 162-game season and the fact that diet and fitness regimens were in their infancy then. Players had to get through a daily grind to perform at a high level, and many needed and need to guzzle coffee, take no-doz, greenies, whatever, to do it.

In my opinion _ and it’s my opinion, so you can have yours without trying to change mine, which you won’t be able to do anyway _ greenies (speed) and heavy coffee consumption are a significant step below cocaine, and protein powder and creatine or other similar supplements are a far cry from andro, human-growth hormone and all forms of steroids.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 5, 2007 01:38 PM | Link to this

It was many and many a pitch ago, In a ballyard by the sea, That a maiden there played whom you may know By the name of Annabel Sanchez; And this maiden she played with no other thought Than to pitch no-hitters for thee.

journalist thinks the braves should acquire annabel sanchez.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 01:39 PM | Link to this

“with that one dimension enhanced by his admitted used of Androstenedione and god knows what else”…

Okay, first of all, not only was Androstenedione legal in baseball, it was legal to buy over-the-counter in the United States!!! McGwire hit 49 homers as a rookie(1987), then added about 25-30lb’s of muscle 7-8 years later onto his ALREADY LARGE FRAME. It is not impossible for a guy who’s 6’6”, 205lbs to add 30lb’s of muscle in a year or two. Now, even saying this, I DO believe he used steroids, but I WILL NEVER KNOW FOR SURE, SO LOGIC SAYS HE MUST BE TREATED THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE UP FOR HOF ELECTION!

By Greg in TN

January 5, 2007 01:42 PM | Link to this

DOB I know where you’re coming from completely. Based on his playing career alone, he merits addition to the hall. I’m also fine with the fact that he isn’t now because he broke rule number one. I do realize that most folks treat what a player does on the field separate from what they do as a manager or an executive (thankfully if you’re Matt Millen), however in the case of Rose, I just can’t separate the two in my mind.

KC Agree with you completely. Murph was an excellent fielding outfielder. I just find it hard to swallow that if he has a few more homers and a higher BA he’s a lock even if he doesn’t have the five gold gloves.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:45 PM | Link to this

DonC, Dave Parker did use cocaine in his playing days. He was part of the Pirates drug scandal in the mid-80s. He and others testified before a grand jury and were granted immunity for testimony that led to the big drug trials.

Ueberroth suspended seven players for a year, the most severe disciplinary action since the Black Sox scandal of 1919.

This obviously was before your time, if you don’t remember all that. Keith Hernandez and cocaine, Tim Raines with the vial of cocaine in his uniform back pocket, reason he would only slide headfirst, etc? None of this rings a bell?

DonC, today’s players aren’t the first to be accused and punished for drugs, either in court or the court of public opinion. It certainly hurt Parker’s Hall of Fame candidacy, though with a .290 average, 339 homers and .339 OBP he probably wouldn’t have made it anyway, despite a few Gold Gloves and an MVP award.

Drug use probably hastened his career decline, and definitely made him a villain in Pittsburgh, where he was booed at the end.

By John Adcox

January 5, 2007 01:46 PM | Link to this

Just giving Hiatt another listen… I like it even better than I did when I made my earlier post. Great stuff.

I’m series about the John Stewart, though. Trust me.

By Don

January 5, 2007 01:51 PM | Link to this

I disagree that Barroid Bonds was a Hall of Fame quality player before he started doping, because I believe his numbers strongly indicate that he started doping long before the late 90’s when he bulked up like a freak and it became obvious.

Here is what Bonds did in his first 4 years in the majors, 1986-1989, after he had already played college ball and was 21-24 years old:

Batting Average: .255 AB’s per HR: 24.78 Slugging: .458

Here are the numbers from Bonds’ middle period, 1990-1999, when I believe he first cheated but prior to when he became a bulked up freak because he was so bitter about McGwire and Sosa:

Batting Average: .302 AB’s per HR: 13.56 Slugging: .602

Here’s a link to the season by season stats for every great hitter in baseball history.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players.shtml

Can anybody find one other great hitter in MLB history who was mediocre for 4 full seasons and then suddenly became great?

Not Aaron, Mantle, Mays, Ruth, Gehrig, Williams, Dimaggio, Pujols, A-Rod, Ramirez, Griffey, Jr., Foxx, Ott, Frank Thomas, etc. I can’t find one other great player who was mediocre for as long as Bonds. Virtually all of them were hitting at near peak numbers by their second full season, even if they were only 20-21 years old.

How can one guy be such an aberration from everybody else who ever played the game? I think the numbers show that Bonds’ entire career is suspect.

By the way, look at the season by season numbers for Palmeiro and you’ll see the unprecedented power surge 6 years or so into his career. But unlike Bonds, he always hit for average. His BA didn’t jump 20% 5 years into his career.

By MBATL

January 5, 2007 01:52 PM | Link to this

Only one comment on Mcgwire; he had every right to take the 5th when asked if HE used steroids. However, he was outside of his rights when he kept saying “I’m not here to talk about the past” when asked about other players, in general, or whether he ever witnessed others using.

I know that the Govt Reform Committee promised not to attack the players in those hearings - it was meant to be nonconfrontational at that stage. However, the past is EXACTLY what they were there to talk about, and McGwire should’ve been told that short of self-incrimination, he’ll damn sure talk about the past.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:52 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN, you are in the majority on Rose, on not separating what he did playing and managing. I’m in the minority, as far as those outside the game (as I said, the vast majority of current players I surveyed for SI said Rose belongs in the Hall, but I know the old-timers say he doesn’t including most of his Reds teammates. Hey, it’s just opinions, right? He’s not going in the Hall, so it doesn’t matter a whole lot.)

DonC, you get all emotional on the issue. It’s up to the individual voters to decide whether he belongs, not you or me. And from what I hear and read of the surveys, 75 percent of Hall voters disagree with you on Big Mac. Sorry, but that’s just how people feel. You’re not going to change their mind, they’re not going to change yours, despite the boldface type.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 01:52 PM | Link to this

To me, that was an “acceptable” part of baseball, especially in that era”

Come on now DOB, it’s already labeled the “steroid era”, so how exactly wasn’t it acceptable in the 90’s and into the 2000’s? Maybe it wasn’t acceptable to fans (just like Greenies in the 60’s and 70’s wouldn’t have been accepted by fans)but I guarantee you it was accepted by the players AND MEDIA! How come no one blew a whistle in 1998? How come all these accusations and allegations of steroid use in baseball surface only when a guy who is loathed by the media (Barry Bonds) starts breaking records? It seemed pretty accepted by players and media until a bad guy who has ALOT of enemies in MLB and media starts setting these HR marks. I’m supposed to believe the timing was just a coincidence? Pleeeeaase…

By John Adcox

January 5, 2007 01:52 PM | Link to this

Series. Jeez. I mean SERIOUS. Sorry. Man, Sexsmith is terrific, too. Doesn’t remind me even a little of Eaglesmith, but he is terrific.

John

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 01:54 PM | Link to this

Adcox, isn’t it just incredible? Nothing better on Sunday morning, or late at night, or on a rainy day, than that Hiatt album. Tremendous. That’s one blue-eyed dude who can play some blues.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 02:03 PM | Link to this

That was before my time DOB, I was born in 1982… I see you’re point, but I just don’t understand how you can argue for a player like Bonds, and not even consider McGwire… Bonds’ stats before he started using steroids were what? How do you know he wasn’t using steroids from 1988-1998? Was his frame then ANY DIFFERENT than Raffy Palmeiro during that time? Was it any different than Alex Sanchez or Guillermo Mota now? (both failed steroid tests). It just sounds like selective reasoning to me…

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:07 PM | Link to this

3Trees, just saw your post on Hiatta. Yes, Slow Turning also a fantastic album. But he’s had about 10 that were, right? Almost every one since Bring the Family, with a couple of good-not-great exceptions. Awesome performer live, too _ saw him at Botanical Gardens couple summers ago, great outdoor show on a hot, humid night, with North Mississippi All-Stars opening for him and then sitting in with him. Great, great show.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 02:08 PM | Link to this

DON, you are the man. Thank’s for making my point about Bonds’ numbers “before he started cheating.”

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 02:11 PM | Link to this

“DonC, you get all emotional on the issue.”

I know I do DOB, and I didn’t mean to offend you or anything. I just don’t like how rational thought gets thrown out the window when it comes to this issue…

By Ray

January 5, 2007 02:11 PM | Link to this

Dave, Not sure if you meant another “Ray” or not but I NEVER nor would I ever refer to you as a lowly beat writer. That just isn’t cool. The Mitchell investigation is not going anywhere. He has already made complaints to the brass of MLB for no one talking to him. No one HAS to talk to him. A lot of people do not like Selig, (not the biggest fan here) BUT he has done a lot of good for the game. As far as the roids keeping up endurance no doubt. Quicker recovery. Caffine and other products like that has been around the game forever. Joe D was seen in the dugout drinking LOTS of coffee on a daily basis. Now to go over to another tangent.. Dave if you have not yet, talk to one of the players who has gone thru arbitration. A few that I know specifically told me its just NOT worth it. Each side stating their case and the team makes you feel like you couldn’t get out of the first inning or hit above .100 No matter how big your ego is, you feel like garbage. Then afterwards, the teams is I love you, you are our boy. Don, YOU are right, a player can add quite a bit of weight in a short period of time without using steroids. Age has a lot to do with it as well. As a freshman middle infielder in college I added right at 30 lbs in just over 4 months but that was with weight training, more than doubling calorie intake and lots of protein shakes. I was 19 too so the age had a lot to do with the ease of it.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 02:14 PM | Link to this

Batting Average: .255 AB’s per HR: 24.78 Slugging: .458

Here are the numbers from Bonds’ middle period, 1990-1999, when I believe he first cheated but prior to when he became a bulked up freak because he was so bitter about McGwire and Sosa:

Batting Average: .302 AB’s per HR: 13.56 Slugging: .602

Now come on DOB, if that doesn’t make you reconsider your stance on Barry Bonds then clearly nothing will…

By Lew

January 5, 2007 02:16 PM | Link to this

Let’s get a couple of things straight here, y’all. First of all, even if baseball had no ban on steroids, their use was banned by the US-they were illegal, despite baseball’s choosing to look the other way. Second, the hell they don’t help you see the ball better. Go check out HGH and then tell me that it didn’t improve Barry Bonds’ eyesight at age late 30’s, when eyesight begins to decline. For that matter, I just got back from having a steroid injection in my eye to reduce swelling and IMPROVE my eyesight. So don’t hand me that BS that it has no effect. It damn well does. As far as bad behavior negating on the field accomplishments-If they can can you for lousy behaivor, why shouldn’t Dale Murphy get extra credit for being a good dude? It sure makes sense to me. DOB-Just picked up Saints and Sinners by Johnny Winter-couyldn’t find anything newer than a live CD from 97-which is when I saw him. Also got the newest Three Days Grace and the Best of Spencer Davis. Just had to listen to that screaming Winwood B3 on Gimme Some Lovin.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:16 PM | Link to this

Just noticed USA Today Sports Weekly did its Team 2006, putting together an All-Star team of sorts with a $72.25 mill payroll, the median payroll in the majors last season. Pretty good idea.

Hard part for Braves to swallow: Only member of last year’s Braves on the team was Daryle Ward as pinch-hitter, who led majors with 22 hits including 4 HRs.

I really think the Braves screwed that one up this winter _ he told me he wanted to re-sign with Braves, but that they wanted him on the cheap. Ends up signing with Cubs for $1.05 mill.

Anyway … conspicuous omission from their team was Brian McCann, at least as backup to Joe Mauer, if not a platoon of sorts. But they took Josh Bard as backup for defense. Whatever. You have a chance to have McCann and his bat and salary as backup, you’d take it in the real world.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:19 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, I thought Secret Window was much better than some critics did. I really liked it, and both those guys were outstanding, perfectly cast in those parts.

By Ray

January 5, 2007 02:24 PM | Link to this

First and foremost I am NOT a Barry “the human bobblehead” Bonds fan. But like a lot of hitters they come into their prime when they hit the age of 28/29. All speculation but my guess his numbers would be close to what Ken Griffey Jr’s numbers are. And speaking of, I don’t think anyone will accuse of Jr of being durable. Poor guy. But he does not appear to be much different than when he came up. A little bulk but not freakish. And his numbers are definitely there.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:26 PM | Link to this

Alan, agreed on Gwynn. I was floored when someone questioned his Hall candidacy. Absurd. One of the very best pure hitters of the past 25 years, without question. Ask any player, manager or pitcher who faced him or played on a team with him. End of story.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:32 PM | Link to this

By the way, Alan and others, here’s an astounding stat for the day: 434 strikeouts in 9,288 at-bats. That’s Gwynn, and in the modern era that’s ridiculous.

In the past three seasons, Adam Dunn has struck out 567 times in 1,672 at-bats.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 02:40 PM | Link to this

DOB, all you have to say about Gwynn is, .338 career batting average! Ridiculous!

By Eric

January 5, 2007 02:40 PM | Link to this

Hey people Mark McGwire did not cheat. Repeat HE DID NOT CHEAT!!!!!!! It was not against the rules to use steroids when he was playing. Not letting McGwire in the hall of fame is like not letting Cy Young in because he threw spitballs. DOB you are a moron for not voting for McGwire.

By Don

January 5, 2007 02:40 PM | Link to this

Hey Ray, if “a lot” of hitters come into their prime at age 28/29, you should be able to cite a few. That link I provided you earlier will take you to the season by season numbers for virtually everybody who has played the game (letter that begins the last name, out to the right of the named players gets you to everybody else).

Who are some of these other late bloomers, besides the highly suspect steroids era guys like Brady Anderson and Brett Boone? Not guys who had a good year or two, but guys who went from being average for several years to MVP quality and sustained it for 5+ years.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:43 PM | Link to this

Here’s a comparison that means little, but is nonetheless eye-opening:

In the past three seasons, Pat Burrell has struck out 421 times in 1,472 at-bats (with 68 doubles, 85 homers and 296 RBIs).

Again, Gwynn struck out 434 times in 9,288 at-bats in his entire career.

And oh, by the way, from 1997-99, at ages 37-39, he totaled 111 doubles, 43 homers and 250 RBIs while batting .372, .321 and .338 in those seasons.

By Ray

January 5, 2007 02:45 PM | Link to this

Dave, I saw the USA Today Team as well. My first thought was where the heck is McCann? Twins, A’s, Cards for that matter are not exactly “high payroll” teams. So we cannot truly say JS hands are completely tied. Have to be more creative and last I checked, highest payroll has not won any Championships in a while. IF you commented on this earlier I aplogize but when Smoltz hangs up the spikes, do you think he will get the votes for the HOF. Curious on your opinion on that one. We will agree to disagree on Rose but I WILL admit a lot of my argument against Rose is I could not and cannot stand him. You probably already know this but Bench and Rose never really got along. Bench told the Reds brass and many others that there were going to be problems with the types of people Pete was hanging out with early on in his career. No law against hanging out with the wrong crowd, but Bench has said several times that Pete was with the shady characters from the beginning of his career. So I cannot ignore his numbers, they speak for themselves. I just dont like the guy so in my biased opinion, the ban could not happen to a nicer guy. HA. Oh you may remember this, when his hit streak was broken by the braves his whiney comment was, I was pitched to like it was the 7th game of the world series. And (the reliever’s name escapes me even though I can see his face) responded back with the classic—“He was hitting against me like it was the 7th game of the world series.”

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 02:50 PM | Link to this

DOB, the one moron who argued against Gwynn getting into the HOF is gone, you don’t have to convince any of us sane people…

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:50 PM | Link to this

DonC, can I please ask you what in the hell you are talking about? You’re completely uninformed on the matter, so I’m going to stop debating it with you. If you’re accusing Barry Bonds of doing ‘roids from 1990-99, then you, sir, are the first. Not even his biggest critics and skeptics, not even the book authors (either book) has speculated or suggested he did ‘roids throughout the ’90s. You’re just being irresponsible, turning this into a witch hunt. Get serious or take up that absurd argument with someone else.

You wrote: “Here are the numbers from Bonds’ middle period, 1990-1999, when I believe he first cheated but prior to when he became a bulked up freak…” My god, that’s so patently absurd, I’m not even going to address it further. Next, please.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:51 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Eric. But I’m not voting. So you’ll have to call the 75 percent of voters who cast ballots and aren’t voting for him _ call them morons. Moron.

By Ray

January 5, 2007 02:55 PM | Link to this

Gwynn no doubt a model player and yes those numbers Dave are freakish in a good way. That is k’ing only 1 time every 21+ at bats. Also,, who would have guessed he had 319 stolen bases and had 40 yes 40 stolen bases in 1989.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

January 5, 2007 02:58 PM | Link to this

Weighing in on today’s topics…..

HOF - McGwire vs. Dale Murphy - McGwire - 583 HR, .265 BA, 11 time All Star, 1 Gold Glove, Rookie of the year/ Murph - 398 HR, .265 BA, 7 time AS, 5 GG, MVP twice (one of only four players to win back to back MVP). Sheerly on Home runs, McGwire wins - but, as an overall player, Murph was superior - both were whiff machines (Murph led the league twice in K’s).. but, he was much better in the field (during the Torre/Tanner days, it was musical chairs as to whether he would play, left, center or right - yet, won gold gloves for 4 straight years during that era), ran the bases well (not a speed demon, but did have one year as a 30/30 man). In short, he was known for something other than his monstrous swing. Besides, McGwire, who by all accounts was a prodigous power hitter, from his rookie year on. But, remember that he had fallen off a few years afterward, because of back problems. And don’t forget who his running mate was at the time - Canseco. McGwire’s miraculously overcoming his back problems without surgery - a coincidence? I don’t think so. McGwire was a great part of any community he was in - no doubt - even missed the last 2 games of the season one year to be with his wife at the birth of one of his kids - and was just 2 homers shy of 50 (club wasn’t in contention). All things being equal, and looking at complete ballplayers, I think Murph should go in before McGwire - I doubt that either them ever will though - Murph’s numbers are a little short, and I don’t think McGwire can over come the steriod issue.

Bonds - can’t stand him - also can’t deny he was one damned fine all around player (also a choke artist in the playoffs with the Bucs - thank goodness). I tend to agree with DOB on this one - if he had quit by 1995, he would have warranted HOF consideration, without the gaudy HR numbers since then. If he breaks the Hammer’s record, there should be an asterisk.

Current Roster - I’m satisfied with what we have - no doubt, always room for improvement. But, as a practical matter, barring JS stealing a deal, don’t think its going to happen. I’m actually excited about our pitching - I think we are MUCH better off than last year - just hope the injury bug don’t bite us as bad. I don’t think our offense will suffer - the only loss was Giles - will miss his doubles, but if KJ can come through at 2nd, with his speed, batting ability, etc., I think it will be an even swap. We’re still solid defensively, especially if Langerhans can improve offensively and play everyday.

DOB:

I saw Earl and The Office last night - agree with you they were gut-busters - Earl shaking the box of garage door openers, telling the cop it was rocks, and the door opening up - classic.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 02:58 PM | Link to this

Ray, just saw your comment _ I meant “Red,” not “Ray.” he’s the one who said something about ferreting out the sports part of the “column,” and BigEditor responded with the line about me not being a columnist but lowly beat writer _ which is, by the way, correct. The beat and the Braves and Man in Black. All I need. Not much. That, some coffee, good cigars. And I have those.

By MBATL

January 5, 2007 02:59 PM | Link to this

The Hall of Fame is not a right, it’s a privilege. Barry may have posted HOF numbers without cheating (if anyone still doubts that he cheated, well… can’t fathom that).

If I was a good student who cheated to make an A on a college exam, would the aministration look at my record and say, “well, he would’ve made a B anyway, so we’ll give him that”? No Way. They’d expel me from school.

Barry chose his path. He (and the other users) dragged the game through the mud, unfairly passed the Babe, and soon Hank, and Maris, and in the process earned more money than any player in the history of baseball.

At this point, it’s not a legal issue (except a possible perjury charge). It’s up to the writers to decide whether to give him (and the other guys) a pass. I suspect they will, but don’t agree.

IF it’s proven (through the tests that MLB has turned over to the feds, or other means) that these guys were using illegal enhancers, I think their records should be vacated, not out of spite (though I’ve got plenty of that) but out of respect to Aaron, Maris, and Ruth.

Know it won’t happen, but that’s my take.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

Lew, was it you, or who was it, who raved about the Yeah Yeah Yeahs’ “Show Your Bones” CD? More I play it, more I love it.

By dcarp23

January 5, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

While not saying or even insinuating that Tony Gwynn ever took steroids, it is interesting to note that he hit 32% (42/135) of his career home runs in three seasons after he turned 37 years old. During those three seasons he totalled 1464 at bats, which accounted for 16 % of the at bats over his career.

I’m not sure what my exact point is, but I guess I have two: 1) Tony Gwynn experienced a power surge during the height of the “steroids era” and 2) no one would ever question whether or not he ever used steroids. I think this ex post facto “investigation” is a little bit ridiculous. It ends up being based as much on people’s feelings as anything else, which I don’t find to be fair.

By Ray

January 5, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

Don, All I said is that most hitters come into their prime when they hit that age. Ask any manager, scout or gm. Based on your facts then Francour is pretty much settled in to what he is going to hit. Which he very well could be. I am just going by what most of the experts say is the prime years of a hitters career, between the ages of 28-32. Of course there are exceptions but if I guy is going to hit, he is going to do it during this time or he is not going to get it. And Eric with all do respect comparing Big Mac with Cy Young is a little off. You might as well compare John Rocker to John Smoltz. YES I know I went to the extreme card, but what Cy accomplished to Mac is no comparison at all.

By Don

January 5, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, I thought part of reporting was developing your own ideas instead of assuming that if nobody has reported on something it didn’t happen. That’s it, just dismiss it out of hand.

Let me guess, you’ve never taken a college level course in statistics? My guess is that if you did and looked at the season by season numbers of Barry Bonds versus every other guy in MLB history who hit 500 home runs you’d notice how unique the jump in Barry’s numbers in his 5th season was.

By dcarp23

January 5, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this

While not saying or even insinuating that Tony Gwynn ever took steroids, it is interesting to note that he hit 32% (42/135) of his career home runs in three seasons after he turned 37 years old. During those three seasons he totalled 1464 at bats, which accounted for 16 % of the at bats over his career.

I’m not sure what my exact point is, but I guess I have two: 1) Tony Gwynn experienced a power surge during the height of the “steroids era” and 2) no one would ever question whether or not he ever used steroids. I think this ex post facto “investigation” is a little bit ridiculous. It ends up being based as much on people’s feelings as anything else, which I don’t find to be fair.

By The Grinch

January 5, 2007 03:13 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Smith, your 1:38 post was classic. Kudos. Got to get some work done. Why does my head hurt?

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 03:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, you don’t gotta be a D!CK about it.

And uninformed??? Did you see the numbers Don posted there??? If you want to pick and choose in your own mind who did steroids, and at what time they started using, then so can I! And no one was publicly accusing Raffy of using steroids either! (unless you count Jose Canseco’s word, and if you do, then I am going to stop debating with you).

Also, by your logic, I can say that Curt Schilling used steroids because he was called in front of congress to testify on steroids… Why else would they call on him unless someone had accused him of using right? In DOB’s mind: Nobody accuses/No circumstantial evidence = Innocent; if that’s the case, then you have to reverse it to say Anybody accuses/Any circumstantial evidence = Guilty. So DOB, Schilling used steroids right? Because if congress called McGwire, Sosa, Raffy, and Canseco, then anyone else they summoned is a steroid cheater too right?

By Ray

January 5, 2007 03:19 PM | Link to this

dcarp, this may or may not help in your evaluation in regards to Gwynn’s jump in HR’s. He had talked with Ted Williams for many years and specifically about homeruns. A few years later after their talk about it, as Tony says, IT CLICKED. I know what the hell he was trying to tell me. And about at that time he got a few more homers. I know that may not help you in to answer your question but Williams had told him for many many years that he could be and should be a 25-30 hr guy. How I would love to be able to sit back and listen to those two talk about hitting.

By Alan

January 5, 2007 03:21 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Depp and Turturro (sp?) were terrific in “Secret Window”. Fact is, they’re pretty good in just about everything.

Big Mac is not going to be elected to the HOF this year - if ever - and his defenders better get used to it. We’ll never know if he cooked his own goose with his “testimony” last year, but he certainly pre-heated the oven. I wonder who his counselor was at that time - Marcia Clark perhaps? I loved the line in an earlier post that described McGwire as “bigger than life” - how true! Paul Bunyan lives! Where’s Babe? Cooperstown. Sorry, Mac. No room for you.

And the AJ traders have to get over that, too. Why do you insist on trading him for inferior guys - Figgins and Adenhart and/or Kotchman? Come on. Those are the same names that were bandied about for LaRoche, and there was all kinds of debate about that. Now let’s trade AJ for them? That’s ludicrous. If the Braves are serious about contending - really, really contending - in ‘07, Andruw has to stay. Simple as that. When/if he leaves as a free agent, the Braves will “save” money. They can’t possibly get close to equal value for him now. Besides, why would the Angels go after him anyway? They just overpaid (by a lot) for Gary Matthews Jr. to play CF for the next 5 years.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 03:24 PM | Link to this

Yeah, dang, what a conversation I would love to hear… Gwynn and Williams discussing the nuance’s of hitting… awesome…

By luvdembraves

January 5, 2007 03:28 PM | Link to this

Saw this on onion.com . Loved it. SAN FRANCISCO— Commissioner Bud Selig announced Wednesday that, once the Giants slugger retires, his name in the official MLB record books will be forever accompanied by an asterisk, followed by a pound sign and exclamation point, all preceded by the letter ‘F’—a string of characters that, according to Selig, “will always be associated with Barry Bonds.

“When my children’s grandchildren open up their Baseball Almanac a hundred years from now, they’ll see this enduring, universally understood symbol right next to Barry’s name,” Selig said. “And when they do, they’ll immediately know that this sequence of characters—F*#!—reflects history’s attitude toward not only the conditions under which he was able to hit his home runs, but also the historical implications he had on the game and its records, the relationship he had with the media and fans during his momentous chase, and just the general atmosphere of baseball in an era he will come to embody.”

“These symbols say more about Barry Bonds and his contributions to this sport than any mere number ever could,” Selig added.

The decision, which Selig characterized as the only way to accurately convey that Barry Bonds hit his 714-plus home runs under “some pretty g******* special circumstances,” is reminiscent of a similar one made in 1961 by then-commissioner Ford Frick. Frick suggested that an asterisk be placed next to Roger Maris’ single-season home-run record of 61, an annotation used to explain that Maris hit his home runs over the course of an expanded 162-game season rather than a 154-game season.

According to Selig, the symbol that will be placed next to Bonds’ name requires no further explanation.

“When people think of Roger Maris, they immediately think ‘asterisk,’” Selig said.

“And when people of this and future generations think of Barry Bonds, they will immediately think F*#!”

Most experts, fans, teammates, and those close to the seven-time MVP say that, while Maris was never able to adjust to the stigma of being remembered as a historical footnote, Bonds is already used to constantly hearing the phrase “F*#!” everywhere he goes.

Baseball fans around the country have applauded Selig’s decision, with many agreeing that Bonds’ accomplishments deserve to be emphasized in such a fashion, and with some even vehemently insisting that his name be accompanied by an even longer string of symbols and letters.

“The first thing I said when I saw Bonds hit No. 714 was, ‘Aww, F*#!’” said Oakland resident Roger Jaffe, who was in attendance at the game during which Bonds tied Ruth, and who claims to have heard many fans mutter the exact same thing. “But the more I think about it, there are at least a thousand other variations on it that may be even more appropriate to describe Bonds and his career.”

All-time home-run leader Hank Aaron contacted the chairman of the Society for American Baseball Research’s records committee, saying that, should Bonds approach his home-run total of 755, he would like “some input as to what appears next to Bonds’ name.”

“I have been thinking about this for quite some time, and I have upwards of 200 very good suggestions that I think they might like to hear,” Aaron said.

Major League Baseball has specified that the ‘F’-asterisk-pound sign-exclamation point symbol will only appear next to Bonds’ name in the all-time home-run category, with his name in other categories to be accompanied by symbols more fitting for that particular one, including: an “at” symbol, two dollar signs, a pound sign, an asterisk, and Nos. 1 and 3 (@$$#13) next to his single-season home-run total of 73; two series of five asterisks—the first preceded by the letter ‘M’ and the second preceded by the letter ‘F’ (M F*)—next to his single-season slugging-percentage record of .863; and a sequence of letters reading “The bastard used to be pretty g******* good in his own right without the f-ing steroids” next to his eight Gold Glove Awards.

“F#! Barry Bonds, 714 F#!^&% home runs,” Selig said, reading a line out of the most updated version of this year’s record book. “F*#! Barry Bonds.”

By mariner

January 5, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

So, Bavasi trades Soriano, one of the best set-up men in baseball, to the Braves, and fills the vacancy with Chris Reitsma. I didn’t think it could get worse for the Mariners. “Chris is a proven, quality major league pitcher and his ability and track record show that he can pitch at the end of games,” Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi said. “When we made our trades earlier this winter, we were confident that setup-quality relief would be available to restock our bullpen.” And for $2.05 million for 1-year. Wow.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 03:34 PM | Link to this

Don, you wrote: “And uninformed??? Did you see the numbers Don posted there???”

First, are you referring to yourself, the numbers YOU posted? Just want to be clear here.

The numbers were for 1990-99, the fifth through 14th seasons of his career, when he should have been at his peak (and was, or so we thought, until he had a second career as Babe Ruth). Anyway, in those seasons (1990-99) he was the steadiest, most consistent player in the majors, never hitting between .290 and .320 most years, only once hitting fewer than 33 homers and only twice hitting more than 40 (42 & 46). You made no point whatsoever, other than to say when YOU thought he started cheating in that stretch, despite no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, and no allegations, from the players or media members or anyone else who despised him. You’re out on that limb alone, my friend, saying that Barry Bonds cheated to do what he did in the 1990s.

I wasn’t being a d*&^. I just said you’re being irresponsible just throwing out accusations about players, without even a rumor that he was a user of anything more than caffeine during that period.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 03:34 PM | Link to this

“The second person who came into Clemens’ life in that period was the strength and conditioning coach of the Toronto Blue Jays, a young man named Brian McNamee, who has been his personal trainer ever since.

George Mitchell, who’s investigating drug use in major league baseball for commissioner Bud Selig, will, I assume, be talking to both Clemens and McNamee. That’s because Clemens was one of six players who were linked to performance-enhancing drugs in a lengthy search-warrant affidavit signed by IRS special agent Jeff Novitzky, summarizing an interview federal agents had conducted with former Arizona Diamondbacks pitcher Jason Grimsley, as reported by the Los Angeles Times last month. Novitzky was also the lead agent in the BALCO investigation.

Grimsley was cooperating with investigators after they had allegedly intercepted a shipment of human growth hormone, HGH, that was sent to his home in Scottsdale, Ariz., in April. A 15-year veteran, Grimsley also identified, according to the Times, Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts and Jay Gibbons as former teammates who had used steroids.

There, Tejada, Roberts and Gibbons are guilty too, right DOB? That was taken directly from an article in Sports Illustrated, so it must be true right???

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 03:36 PM | Link to this

Now THAT was funny, the Onion article. Though I’m going to do you a favor and try to clean it up now, make it easier to read.

By Don

January 5, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this

Ray, sometimes you’ve got to look at the numbers to see if conventional wisdom is correct or not. The numbers say that virtually every great hitter was great almost immediately. You see some of them that only get a handful of ABs per year when they’re 18 or 19, but when they’re 20 and over and start playing full time, they start hammering the ball. They don’t hit .255 for 4 full seasons years and then hit .300 for the next 10 years. Except for Barry Bonds, who DOB assures us didn’t use steroids before the late 90’s even though Jose Canseco talks about using them in the late 80’s. It just took Barry a few years to figure out how to hit. Unlike every other great hitter who ever played the game.

I think you’re correct about Francouer. Before I looked more closely at the numbers of great hitters I’d have said maybe he will become more selective and hit .300 with 40+ home runs in four or five years, maybe he’s going to learn to be a smarter hitter. He’s only had a partial year out of high school and one full season in the big leagues, but historical precedent says that if his production doesn’t take a big jump this year we’ve probably already seen the type of hitter he’s going to be.

I keep asking you for specifics and you keep giving me generalities, supported by some bunch of unnamed baseball guys. If you can’t cite specifics to support the generality and you’re open minded, you have to start questioning whether the generality is legitimate or not.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 03:41 PM | Link to this

“Separately, according to a source who used to work with McNamee (personal trainer for Jason Grimsley), federal investigators have pursued a money trail through computer files that have led them directly back to Clemens and teammate Andy Pettitte, who also employed McNamee as his personal trainer. The noose has tightened, according to the source, and it will all come out before long.”

There you go DOB, see Clemens and Pettite are guilty cheaters too…

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 03:45 PM | Link to this

“Don, you wrote: “And uninformed??? Did you see the numbers Don posted there???”

First, are you referring to yourself, the numbers YOU posted? Just want to be clear here.

No, there is me (DonCoburleone) and then there is Don, somebody else… I posted DON’S stats and then gave DON credit for them…

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 03:48 PM | Link to this

Sorry, DonC, now I see you were referring to numbers posted by other Don. Other Don, even Canseco never accused Bonds of doing ‘roids in 1990s. No one has. (And if I’m not mistaken, Canseco hasn’t exactly pulled punches when it came to naming names, including Palmeiro and Mac, etc.) Sorry, but you’ve gotta have something more than your own hunches or it won’t fly with most folks, I’m guessing. Certainly won’t with me.

Simply put: Too many people hate Barry and would like to see his entire career undermined for no one to have come forward with accusations of ‘roid use in the 1990s.

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 03:50 PM | Link to this

Thanks for backing me up DON, and actually giving a different opinion and view point other than the one DOB is regurgitating from stuff he’s heard on ESPN…

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

OK, DonC. Glad you’re not getting worked up over this or anything. I’ve never mentioned Clemens or Pettitte, have I? But feel free to cast the net as wide as you want, try to get to the bottom of the entire mess.

Just don’t expect me to debate it all with you. it’s a big mess, as we’ve seen the past few years, and there are no simple answers or solutions. Sorry, just aren’t.

But let me know when you find someone who’s said or speculated, on or off the record, in any published report, that Bonds cheated in the early and mid-90s. Please, let us all know. Somone other than Don, please.

By Ray

January 5, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Don, you are correct and when I have time later on, I will give you specifics as far as names and stats. Just don’t have the time to look it up right now. But I will do so. But as far as the no-names,, instead of listing every manager and most scouts, I did make that broad statement. But I have first hand heard such managers as Lasorda,Sparky, hitting instructors as Rod Carew say that a hitter comes into his prime. Not to throw out your facts but based on your argument, when a hitter comes into the league for 2 or 3 years and tears it up and then falls off the face of the earth.. another words drops 30+ points does that mean he was on steroids and then decided to take it off?

By braves4ever

January 5, 2007 03:54 PM | Link to this

I found an article on onion.com that I thought was awesome re Barry Bonds. Totally hilarious. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48895 On another note re Littlefield’s “excellence”. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50814. Happy new years guys and gals, GO BRAVES!!!!

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this

But let me know when you find someone who’s said or speculated, on or off the record, in any published report, that Bonds cheated in the early and mid-90s. Please, let us all know. Somone other than Don, please.

That’s not the point DOB, the point is you assume if it’s published or speculated, then it’s true. So do you believe Roger Clemens, Andy Pettite and Miguel Tejada are (or have) used steroids before? Because if you say no, then that would be a hypocritical answer…

By Alan

January 5, 2007 04:01 PM | Link to this

So, Tony Gwynn had a “power surge” (42 HRs in 3 years - please) during the same time that McGwire and Sosa were playing Dueling Banjos in Wrigley Field and every other park in America? So, maybe TG also was using performance-enhancing products? Yeah, the same ones Andruw’s been using the past few years - Big Macs, Whoppers, etc. The McGwire apologists have to go now - anywhere but Cooperstown. Someone posted his lifetime BA a while ago - .265 - that is not worthy of the HOF - no matter how many HRs the guy hit. That same post indicated that Dale Murphy’s lifetime BA is the same. Again, that’s simply not good enough - and Murph hit fewer than 400 HRs. Yeah, character (or lack thereof) counts, but not enough to offset a low lifetime BA. That’s what’s keeping Roger Maris out, and rightfully so IMO. The HOF already is diluted by the likes of Rabbit Maranville (great name, though) and Bill Mazeroski and even Pee Wee Reese. McGwire’s numbers - tainted or not, and we all know they are - don’t merit his election.

By Don

January 5, 2007 04:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m the one who posted the numbers on Bonds, not DonC. Maybe you need to have another pot of coffee and read the post again when you’re alert.

The point of it was that Bonds was a .255 hitter for his first 4 seasons (1986-1989) when he was 21-24 years of age. He hit one home run every 24.78 ABs. Then he suddenly morphed into a guy who hit .302 with one HR every 13.56 ABs for the next 10 years. He went from being Jose Hernandez to Manny Ramirez.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

January 5, 2007 04:08 PM | Link to this

This won’t end this debate, but this is my take on statistics, fluctuations in performance, and trying to infer certain things from those.

Anybody, who wants to find support for his opinion, stance, position, etc., can use statistics to support his argument. Conversely, if I want to make an opposite argument, I can either use the very same statistic, put my own spin or twist on it, and make it support my argument. Or, I can go find other statistics to support my argument. Or, I can go back and manipulate the numbers, through different formulas, excluding or including anomalous figures, “hanging chads”, variances, margin of error, etc. And can argue just as vociferously as one taking an opposite stance.

I’m not a big numbers guy - it takes a lot of time to gather stats, compare, detect trends (that I want the stats to support), etc. For example, Bonds consistently stole 30 to 40 bases a year until 1999. He stole 52 in 1990. Then, his stolen base production dropped to 15 in 1999, and he has not stolen more than 13 since. Does that mean that the spike up in 1990 was because he started using roids, Red Bull or happy juice? Or, should we infer that he began using roids around 1998 or 1999, the years his HR numbers began to go through the roof, but he lost his speed? Bad knees? Too bulked up to be able to run?

Just my two cents.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 04:14 PM | Link to this

And DonC, my point _ for the LAST time, I promise all you others getting bored to tears with this _ is that in this era of rampant finger-pointing and accusations, of media members finally scrambling for answers now that this thing’s blown up, of people trying to break stories on steroid use and turn over every rock, etc., there has never been anyone imply or accuse Bonds of using in the early and mid-90s, or even late-90s. There just hasn’t been. And believe me, I know the reporters in Pittsburgh who covered the team at that time. One damn good reporter. If there was any story there, he’d write it in a minute. He’s asked questions, countless questions.

And I’m not talking about Clemens, Petitte, any of the others. I’m talking about Bonds. The original blog was written to point out that, if you believe this is frenzy of controversy now with Mac and the Hall, just wait until Bonds comes up for election five years after he’s done. That’s it. That’s what the blog was about. I’m done with the debate. Carry on if you will. I wasn’t trying to change your mind, and you certainly haven’t said anything to change mine.

Peace.

By TLJ

January 5, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this

First of all I do not think AJ will be traded but I think it makes perfect sense. The Braves will not be able to afford him even at a discounted rate.

The Braves could get some players in return that would help the team today and the future.

AJ could tell the Braves what teams he was interested in and the Braves could discuss a trade with them. Boras would be given 72 hours to finalize a new contract.

AJ could play for the team of his choice at a figure similar to what he would receive next year. He wouldn’t have to go through the stress of playing out his contract year and not take a chance of being injured.

All parties win. It will not happen because AJ wants to play this season in Atlanta. I guess it’s possible the Braves will find additional funds, AJ will agree to take less and everyone lives happily everafter. If you believe this I have some a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

January 5, 2007 04:22 PM | Link to this

Oh - forgot to put one more possible reason for Bonds’ drop off in stolen bases - somebody stole his lucky PF Flyers and put them up for sale on E-Bay.

By Steve C

January 5, 2007 04:24 PM | Link to this

Let’s recap the great offseason acquisitions we’ve gotten to improve the Braves for 2007… Rafael Soriano, Willie Harris, Chris Woodward, Mike Hampton (return from injury), Tanyon Sturtze, and Kelly Johnson (return from injury). Wow, these all-stars will certainly improve on last season’s record, when we finished 18 games behind the Mets. Listening to KC and most of you other ham & eggers* (when you’re not discussing Van Halen in a BRAVES blog), the Braves will most certainly WIN the World Series in 2007. After all, with the additions of Rafael “Guerrero Syndrome” Soriano, “Roadrunner” Willie Harris, “Strike Out” Sturtze, “Cy” Hampton, and “MVP” Kelly Johnson, how can the Braves not win the 2007 World Series????? Just ask KC who has predicted in stone “Cy” Hampton will win 20 games, and “Guerrero Syndrome” Soriano will make the Brave’s bullpen a shutdown force. You chumps make me sick. The Braves finished 79-83 in 2006, and may I mention again 18 games out in the NL East. I know all you geeks (most of you probably still live with your mom and believe in Santa Claus) are disputing my claims before of the truly all-star upgrades John Schuerholz made this offseason. The rest of you might want to take off the Rose-Colored glasses KC is wearing. Hey KC, the pitching staff is basically the SAME from 2006, except for “Cy” Hampton and “Guerrero Syndrome” Soriano. I’m certainly going to make my Brave’s World Series travel plans right now. Like KC and the other toots claim, the Braves are going to win the World Series next year. Time to wake up from your dream…

By rammerjammer

January 5, 2007 04:24 PM | Link to this

Just noticed - and forgive me if it’s been discussed - that Reitsma signed a one-year, $2.05 million dollar contract to be Seattle’s set-up man.

So they give up Soriano for Reitsma, basically.

Here’s a quote from their GM:

“Chris is a proven, quality major league pitcher and his ability and track record show that he can pitch at the end of games,” Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi said.

No, that’s not from the ONION. It’s a real quote.

So if any of us are bemoaning the newly frugal Braves, just think, you could be a Mariner fan.

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 04:27 PM | Link to this

Don, maybe you need to read all the posts when you’re more alert. I acknowledged after finding your stats that it was you, not DonC. Then I pointed out how said stats said absolutely nothing to me other than Barry Bonds was at his all-around best from his 5th through 14th seasons in the majors, then became a huge power hitter who no longer ran well.

As I said, done with the debate.

By Greg in TN

January 5, 2007 04:27 PM | Link to this

DOB It’s all good. I can definitely respect where you’re coming from and I understand it. One thing I asked on the last blog and I’m not sure if you were able to spot it, so I’ll take the chance and ask again. Is the team looking at improving the lighting at the Ted? I know there would be more than a little work involved as far as installing additional lights in the power alleys to give the CF a better view of fly balls in the outfield. AJ has gotten adjusted to it over the years, but with his potential departure after next year, having someone new tracking fly balls there 81 times a year would have to adjust.

Good stuff on the McGwire/Murphy comparisons, Scalp ‘Em.

By ObiWanKobe

January 5, 2007 04:33 PM | Link to this

Steroids!!! -I live in LA and if you want to talk steroids, you need to be talking Eric Gange. I’m surprised there were any steroids left for anyone else with the amount he used.

By bruce

January 5, 2007 04:37 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Time to buzz and say thanks again… I am not familiar with the particular distinctions between someone who is a “columnist” vs a “lowly beat writer”, but I would like to suggest an analogy with medicine.

First, here is my HOF vote… of all the AJC.com Braves writers I have read, you seem to me to be the most informed, most interested and most detailed in perspective and most caring about the players and the fans than all others.

Other AJC.com paid writers occasionally seem to open a stink-bomb and then enjoy pointing out the stink, maybe even garnish a headline to go with their photo. I have not observed this technique in your writing, for which you earn distinguished accolades of reader confidence and dedication.

Probably “columnists” who must write on multiple sports/teams can’t afford the time and energy that you invest in baseball and the Braves for AJC.com writings and for more interested Braves fans via this blog.

I contend that your investment and writing makes you a sub-specialist of much greater value. I gladly pay medical specialists and sub-specialists more and grant greater credibility to their opinions on a (sub)specialty issue than the opinion of a General Practice (GP) doctor. I am grateful for their speciality knowledge and insight when applied to my particular needs/interests.

I believe you have earned and deserve more visibility (as long as it does not diminish your specialty) of head-shot photo on the AJC Braves website homepage and whatever else a “columnist” gets. (Actually, you have earned and deserve more than the others.)

As a specialty writer, you should not be penalized in any way. I would not rely on a general practice doctor for his thoughts on an especially unique cardiology problem, but both have earned distinguished MD titles and stature.

The AJC bosses should adjust their HOF voting policy with a reasonable years-of-service minimum requirement for those professionals writing in the specialty (baseball) and sub-specialty (Braves) categories. You are gracious in how you describe the with-held voting right, while even honoring your decision makers. Capability even further demonstrated.

I use this opportunity to convey my commendation for your subspecialty excellence in an area of great interest to me. I care far more about, read with much more interest, and anticipate your opinions and perspective of the Braves and Braves news than any other professional writer.

Thanks for keeping us informed (many could do this — GP) and enlightened (few can do this- sub-specialist). Your vote does count with us, even if your bosses won’t allow it to count with the HOF. Thanks, Bruce

By David

January 5, 2007 04:39 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry about Barry getting in the Hall-Of-Fame. If Barry doesn’t get in with seven MVP trophies, batting titles, 700 Home Runs, 500 steals, 3000 hits, higher slugging percentage than Babe Ruth, then EVERYONE who is currently in the Hall-Of-Fame should be removed and HOF should go out of business.

By mariner

January 5, 2007 04:39 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer,

I’m a Mariner fan because I live in Seattle. For no other reason. Replacing Soriano with Reitsma does seem like a very cruel joke. I do count my blessings to be a Braves fan. On the plus side for Bavasi, getting Reitsma is his best move of the off season - when compared to the Soriano and Vidro disasters.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

January 5, 2007 04:44 PM | Link to this

Good grief, I have never so many knee-jerk reactions in my life as I have this week. Everybody is at each other’s throats for some reason or another. Maybe it’s just offseason baseball withdrawals. Hope y’all have a good weekend. Have a Coke and a smile or something. Here’s to better moods next week. ;) Hillbilly’s gone…..

By Scalp 'Em Braves

January 5, 2007 04:55 PM | Link to this

OK folks - it’s “Beer O’Clock” here - time to go debate with Crimson Turds over whether the entire college football nation should just go ahead and concede the National Championship next year, and each year after, now that they have Coach Satan, er, I mean, Saban on board. At least with Stankees and Mutts fans, they are 800+ miles away. I have live and work with these insufferable fans every day.

By Rosalynn

January 5, 2007 05:07 PM | Link to this

When Jimma was Govenah Miz Lillian used to say to Jimma, “Now don’t be getting the Big Head” when people would treat Jimma like he was realla impohtant. And it is true, that Jimma’s head would swell. But Jimma nevah, evah had a big ol’ head like that boy Barra Bonds. What did that boy do to get such a Big Ol’ Head? That Barra is carra-in a melon on his shouldas! When we used to go to Fulton Counta Stadium and watch Barra he was just a skinny little ol’ thing with a good bat. Now, he looks like Madeline Albright after she’s soaked overnight in a tub of milk - all gross and distohted. I pehsonalla do not favah having Barra Bonds in the HOF but Jimma thinks Barra desehves anotha chance. Jimma says sometimes people don’t make the best of theah oppohtunites and histora can sometimes be cruel. Jimma knows.

By rammerjammer

January 5, 2007 05:17 PM | Link to this

Mariner,

From way over here in bammerland, it does seem like Seattle has had a curious offseason.

But baseball’s a funny game. Soriano may indeed never be the same after the Vlad liner, and Reitsma might be solid as he sometimes has been before.

Good luck!

By thad

January 5, 2007 05:18 PM | Link to this

COME ON MAN! mark should be in the hall of fame. his numbers are good enough. and yeah he took enhancment drugs but they were legal at the time. Bonds took them knowingly he was wrong. Bonds character speaks for itself. Look at his other financial issues. He could be in jail before the season starts.

By TennesseePaul

January 5, 2007 05:20 PM | Link to this

Reitsma to the Mariners… So after this disaster of a 07 season I’d imagine Ichiro is going to be willing to listen to absolutely anything to get him out of there. It rains all the time and the team stinks. Sounds like a good time to move.

DOB. As always you do a fabulous job. Thanks for the new blog and the recommended tunes. I still disagree with the Big Mac stance, but so beit. To me, everything I’ve seen is, great players on roids turn out to be great players. Crap players on roids turn out to be crap. Both have injury histories. If Mac was on more than Andro, which was leagal when he took it, then he still did something all those minor league and some major league juicers couldn’t do. It’s like the line from Blade Runner, “The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.” I think Big Mac would have hit the same number of homers without the juice, but done it over a longer career with less injuries. I agree with you on Bonds. Even with the roided past, the only reason I wouldn’t vote him in is because I can’t stand the guy. I know it isn’t a valid reason, but I don’t have a vote anyway so what does it matter. Also, on the “on the field” issue… if Pete Rose gets in for on the field numbers, so should Shoeless. And Shoeless should get in before Rose. To let Rose in and not Shoeless would be a travesty.

Anyways… GO BRAVES!!

By mariner

January 5, 2007 05:41 PM | Link to this

it will be a perfect time for Ichiro to move considering he is a free agent after this year.

By kinley

January 5, 2007 05:49 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Since TenPaul mentioned Ichiro, I’m curious. Assuming we don’t re-sign Andruw, how much do you think Ichiro will command on the open market next offseason? With Andruw’s $13.5 mil (I believe) off the books we could at least afford to sign someone to a deal in the $10-12 million dollar range if Hudson were traded.

If I’m not mistaken, Hudson’s salary jumps to about $13 million after 2007. If Matt Harrison is deemed ready for 2008, is trading Hudson a realistic possibility?

By DonCoburleone

January 5, 2007 05:51 PM | Link to this

Alright DOB, I’m done. I just feel passionate about this issue so I apologize if I made you mad or offended you or anything…

We still cool right?

By Earl

January 5, 2007 06:13 PM | Link to this

I agree with Kinley, Trading Hudson is a possibility after this year; keep in mind Smoltz is also a free agent. One thing that might keep Andruw back here is the supply of center fielders next year in free agency (Ichiro, Torii hunter, and Mike Cameron, plus others I think I’m forgetting). I still don’t think Andruw will come back though.

Couple other things, Ron Belliard is still available, anyone got an opinion of him playing second? I wouldn’t mind him, but I don’t think he plays defense good enough for the Braves to sign him.

And my Hall of Fame ballot: Gwynn, Ripken, Blyleven, and Dawson.

By liberal media sucks

January 5, 2007 06:28 PM | Link to this

Bonds will have no trouble geting in the hall of fame because he is black. The liberal media hates white men like rose and mcguire and they will never have a chance. White people must live to a much higher standard than blacks.

By Sam

January 5, 2007 06:43 PM | Link to this

You tell em “liberal media sucks”. If DOB were man enough to come clean he’d admit that he, too, hates white men. He probably seethes with hatred every time he looks in the mirror.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 5, 2007 06:44 PM | Link to this

The problem with this whole Hall of Fame and steroid issue lies at the feet of Major League Baseball. The officals of MLB along with the owners and GMs all knew that some players were using steroids. They may have not known who exactly but they all had suspicions. They simply turned a blind eye because the sport was gaining popularity due to the homeruns being hit and said popularity brought forth money and lots of it. I find it very hypocritical that now all of a sudden MLB wants to “toughen” on steroids and is hanging some of the very people it protected out to dry.

What also has to be remembered is that no matter what you and I think nor what circumstancial evidence exists that only Palmerio has tested positive for steroids. No eye witnesses other than Jose Canseco have come forth to say they saw this person or that person take steroids. Canseco has been very willing to name names but can’t produce one shred of solid eveidence supporting his claims.

Now, before the masses start to jump my case, allow me to say that I believe most of those who have been mentioned are guilty and that includes the “great” Roger Clemens. However, none of them have been found guilty or had a “smoking gun” presented to support their guilt. NONE OF THEM!

The fact is when you start saying this person should be in and this person shouldn’t you are playing a very dangerous game. The entire era is stained. Nobody can say with any certainty that one person or the other was totally clean. I find it interesting that not one person has ever some much as whispered about Sosa. We don’t count because fans have become a mob who is blood thirsty and lumping everyone together. I find it hard to believe in today’s world of book writings and making fast money that someone….ANYONE hasn’t come forward to claim Sosa did the roids. I mean he couldn’t have kept it that quiet. And even Bonds has only had an ex-girlfriend with a motive to say the least to claim he is guilty. Again, that is not to say that they are innocent but it is to say that it is a very slippery slope to start throwing around accusations without real hard core proof.

I also think it is a bit of a leap to compare “greenies” to steroids but lets keep in mind that while steroids were around in the 60s and 70s it had nowhere near the easy access it does now and in the 80s and 90s. “Greenies” were a performance enhancing drug anyway you slice it. If it wasn’t then why was it included on the list of banned substances that MLB recently instituted as part of its drug policy?

And as for the question as to why, if steroids or such substances were rampant in the 50s and 60s, why nobody ever whispered anything about it or it was ever investigated that answer is really quite simple. It is the same reason nobody is talking to George Mitchell. Nobody wants to be a snitch or tattletale. Players will protect each other even if they don’t agree with the behavior. What? Nobody knows guys who smoke weed or do coke and say nothing? Give me a freakin break! And reporters were nowhere near as sensationalist as they are now. (Not speaking about you, DOB.) A lot of reporters now are as big a star as the players themselves. So, if they broke something as big as Bonds doing the roids, they will go down in the annals of history. People are in general nosier now than they were then.

Athletes have always looked to get an edge and I just don’t believe that all of those guys were as clean as the mountain spring and it is just the Barry Bonds and Mark McGwires of the world that are dirty. Again, give me a freaking break!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe those guys should be in along with Pete Rose with a nice long story next to their displays detailing the clouds of suscpicion around them. Plain and simple. Let the visiting fans make their own determination and go from there. Put Rose in the HOF and mention his betting. The same with Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and whomever else with their “alleged” steroid use mentioned on their displays.

And, one more thing. Can we really let the whole Bonds cheated on his taxes thing go. For the love of God. What?! Is he the first person to ever do that? Hell, I bet if some in depth investigating was done on some of the folks on this blog I’m sure a stone or two would get uncovered. Get real. People cheat the government everyday. I’m not saying it is right. I’m just saying it is hypocritical and ignorant to act like Bonds is the only guy to ever do it.

Bonds, McGwire, Palmerio, Sosa and many others are guilty of steroid use in my opinion. But, it is just that…..OPINION! NOT FACT!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 5, 2007 07:02 PM | Link to this

Liberal Media Sucks, YOU’RE A MORONIC IDIOT! SO, SHUT UP!

Now, back to intelligent people. I read that someone said earlier that McGwire is at least ashamed of himself. What gives you that impression? If he was so ashamed, he would admit his guilt and ask for forgiveness. Giambi has shown more remorese about his actions than McGwire or Sosa ever have.

By Stan Tinople

January 5, 2007 07:03 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice is The Best):

“And reporters were nowhere near as sensationalist as they are now. (Not speaking about you, DOB.)”

Are you speaking about JJS?

By journalist jimmy smith

January 5, 2007 07:04 PM | Link to this

ignore that post. clearly, stan tinople is a con.

By MBATL

January 5, 2007 07:16 PM | Link to this

Long as it’s opinion, it’s up to the writers to decide… and I think they’ll put’em all in after a year of ‘punishment’ (no first ballots). I wouldn’t, but they probably will, and they’ve got the votes.

If it’s proven in court, then I think Baseball should ban them (like Rose), and the records thrown out. The writers wouldn’t have any say-so in the matter. Again, not likely.

To me, the HOF is more than who hit the most home runs… it’s honoring the people who’ve contributed to the game. You don’t have to be a saint to get in (long as you’ve posted the numbers) but if you’ve disgraced the game, the voters have the right to keep you out.

Bonds is in trouble, though. Unlike the other guys, he’s testified before a grand jury that he never did the stuff… and if the feds find evidence that he did, he’s up the creek. And why is Greg Anderson sitting in prison, refusing to talk about all this? Sooner or later, it’s gonna come out.

By Lew

January 5, 2007 07:18 PM | Link to this

I think if McGwire and Palmiero had stood up like Canseco and just admitteed it (Bonds, too), that most of us probably wouldn’t have been so upset. With Canseco, he was a general screw up that wouldn’t have made it anyway, nut McGwire’s tap dance and Palmiero and Bonds ouright denial has probably screwed them all as far as the HOF is concerned.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 5, 2007 07:37 PM | Link to this

Lew, I agree with you about if McGwire, Palmerio,and Sosa had stood up and admitted their use that their scorn would not be so harsh. But, I disagree about Bonds. Bonds is so hated that I don’t think it would ever matter what he did. He would still be roasted in the court of public opinion.

By TennesseePaul

January 5, 2007 07:42 PM | Link to this

The assumption of guilt with little evidence for McGwire is what bums me out. He admitted to Andro and anything legal, which Andro was at the time. He denied roids time and again. Schilling was in front of that pannel and said no, why is his guilt not assumed? Sosa said he didn’t speak english, but still said no. Why do some get the assumption of innocence and others guilt, no matter the response? For what it’s worth, Big Mac did say he was there to talk about the future to do what is necessary to make sure that roids aren’t a problem for the kids. It’s always about the kids, you know.

By Carolina Lady

January 5, 2007 07:55 PM | Link to this

I can see Bonds at the podium at the induction ceremony - and being booed. He cheated and does not deserve the honor. My 2-cents heard.

By Hotspur

January 5, 2007 07:58 PM | Link to this

“He admitted to Andro and anything legal, which Andro was at the time.”

Actually, in the interview with Joe Simpson just posted, Joe attests that that was not in fact the case, that Andro was indeed illegal at the time and that that’s a big reason why Joe doesn’t think McGwire should be voted into the HOF. That’s always been my understanding as well - that Andro, while not banned by baseball at the time, was certainly illegal. You might want to check your sourc9es, TennesseePaul, and if your statement is wrong, I’d be interested in hearing if your opinion of the matter changes at all.

As far as all the complaining about the lack of movement with the team, I sympathize and agree with everyone’s complaints. I can’t help thinking that a real commissioner wouldn’t be allowing this tax-shelter to continue to hold Atlanta baseball hostage while self-imposed deadline after deadline blows away in the wind. What a crime - and I mean that almost literally.

DOB, as usual, you rock. Out.

By Carolina Lady

January 5, 2007 07:58 PM | Link to this

jjs is sharp tonight! :-))

By Chrizzo

January 5, 2007 08:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, genius call on the John Hiatt stuff. I was wondering if you were into him or not. What you said about “Bring the Family” is right. If you do not own that record, do yourself a favor and pick it up. “Memphis in the Meantime” is such a great song. The whole record is full of them. His live records are great as well. Especially the “Austin City Limits” show. Great call DOB.

By Rosalynn

January 5, 2007 08:11 PM | Link to this

I once had chin haih. I admit it and I am glad I can talk about it now. To rid myself of chin haih I took some medicine prescribed by the docta. Sure enough, I built some muscle mass, but the chin haih fell out and I was so glad. My head nevah grew in size like some steroid usahs. I think steroids ahr useful when used to control something like chin haih but steroids are a scourge for baseball playuhs.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 5, 2007 08:28 PM | Link to this

The reason Schilling isn’t assumed to be guilty is because he answered every question. McGwire made himself look like a bafoon with his “I’m not going to answer that. I’m here to talk about the future.” Well, pal, they didn’t have you come there to talk about the future but the present and past. Look, I like McGwire and I personally think he has received much lighter treatment than Bonds but the fact is that he could have avoided must of this crap by simply saying, “No, I didn’t do it.” What I still wonder is why Bonds was not invited. That still baffles me……Or does it?

By bruce

January 5, 2007 08:47 PM | Link to this

i’m glad that Reitsma got a good deal and wish him the best, that his surgery will help him pitch the best he can.

Dave, thanks for telling us about him personally being a good guy. While it is nice that he did not blame his troubles on his nerve problem, pitching while numb must be tough.

Dave, do you have an impression whether he told Bobby about his nerve problem early on or did he wait until it all fell apart? Thanks, Bruce

By John the Handsome

January 5, 2007 08:49 PM | Link to this

Let em all in. Nobody cares anymore. Just average players can get in now for some reason or other. He was a good guy, moral,good to kids, good looking, whatever. College football for this old coach that could care less about pros anymore.

By MBATL

January 5, 2007 08:56 PM | Link to this

Robert, you can’t say “No I didn’t do it” to a Congressional Committee unless you, uh, really didn’t do it. Perjuring yourself before the U.S. Congress is a big deal. A lot bigger than taking illegal steroids. I don’t think Congress ever had any intention of prosecuting these guys…just trying to get some answers in general - with an eye toward forcing MLB to adopt stronger policies. Now that the players tapdanced around and made the House GR committee look like fools, who knows, the gloves may be off.

But, of course, with the Dems taking over the Congress, and new committee leadership, this may drop off the map anyway. (that’s not a political criticism, but a fact - different people with different agendas are in charge of the committees now).

By TLJ

January 5, 2007 09:07 PM | Link to this

I think we should have a Hall of Shame. We could include indiviudals who used steroids, drugs, gambled, beat their wives, etc. This way they could have their own special place and leave the HOF for deserving individuals.

By I am the decider

January 5, 2007 09:09 PM | Link to this

1. Bonds belongs in the HOF

2. The Braves aren’t going to do anything until that get swapped for court tv and and some stock to liberty and even then they will have problems.

3. I have seen Hiatt twice, once acoustic and once in front of the Mississippi All-Stars. Great stuff. “Perfectly good guitar”, “drive south”, plus those tunes already mentioned. But the lyrics to “Slow turning” are the best!”

When I was a boy, I thought it just came to you But I never could tell what’s mine So it didn’t matter anyway

My only pride and joy Was this racket down here Banging on an old guitar And singin’ what I had to say

I always thought our house was haunted Cuz nobody said “boo” to me I never did get what I wanted But now I get what I need

It’s been a slow turning From the inside out A slow turning But you come about

A slow learning But you learn to sway-ah-hay-hay-hay A slow turning, baby Not fade away, not fade away, not fade away

Now I’m in my car Ooh, I got the radio on Now I’m yellin’ at the kids in the back Cuz they’re banging like Charlie Watts

You think you’ve come so far In this one horse town Then she’s laughing that crazy laugh Cuz you haven’t left the parkin’ lot

Time is short and here’s the damn thing about it You’re gonna die, gonna die for sure And you can learn to life with love or without it But there ain’t no cure

It’s just a slow turning From the inside out A slow turning But you come about, ya

A slow turning, baby But you learn to sway-ah-hay-hay-hay A slow turning Not fade away, not fade away, not fade away Not fade away, not fade away

A slow turning, a slow turning, a slow turning, a slow turning

HEY, DOB do you listen to Dave Alvin?

By The Stranger

January 5, 2007 09:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, you wrote:

“It’s one thing that separates baseball from other sports, how the essence of the game hasn’t really changed much. I mean, football linemen from the 50s couldn’t compete in today’s game, and most backs and wide receivers from the past couldn’t either. But Joe D and Ted Williams and the Mick and Clemente would be stars today, much as they were then. Maybe not quite as dominant, but absolutely they’d be stars.”

Isn’t that a prime reason for keeping Bonds out of the Hall? To preserve the integrity of the game, shouldn’t our first responsibility be to preserve the integrity of the Hall itself?

Barry Bonds was a Hall of Fame caliber player in the 90’s. But, and this is a serious question, would he still have the credentials for inclusion if we deducted the taint years from his resume? Giving him the benefit of the doubt through 1999, that would leave him with nearly 300 homers less.

Barry Bonds was an indisputable first ballot Hall of Famer. No argument here. Had he just played the game the way his dad taught him, he would have had few, if any, living peers. But out of sheer arrogance and hubris he went out of his way - way out of his way - to be even better than humanly possible. That’s human nature and it is entirely forgivable. But it should be forgiven, not forgotten; and certainly, under no asterisked circumstances, should it ever be rewarded.

Long live the Hammer!

By KC

January 5, 2007 09:40 PM | Link to this

Steve C: Wow man… I do believe your 4:24 post set the record for the most “KC” references in a post this year. Of course, I guess that’s not saying much since it’s only January 5th… but still, I’m honored!

I never predicted 20 wins from Hampton or any other Brave next season. But then, you probably knew that wasn’t true when you wrote it.

You’re the type of person I wish I lived next door to. You see, if that were the case, and you started running your mouth about how the Braves are going to finish 18 games out… I would simply say “great, let’s put $50 on it, right here and now”. If you lived next door, there’s a chance you’d be good for it. But since this is just an internet blog, you’ll come in here, talk a bunch of S#^*, and when the Braves win 90-plus games next season, you’ll slip under a rock, and we’ll never hear from you again… what a shame.

I’m sure you’re right Steve. Actually… ya know what?? You’ve sold me. I think you’re 100% correct. The Braves will finish dead last in the division, and your beloved Mets will ride the strength of their phenomenal starting rotation to a World Series victory in 2007! Can I get your mailing address so that I might send you a congratulatory Hallmark card when that happens?

By David O'Brien

January 5, 2007 09:51 PM | Link to this

Just saw “Children of Men.” Great movie. Powerful, bleak, tough to watch at times. But great….

Bruce, sincere thanks for the kind words….

Greg in TN, can’t answer question about lighting. Subject hasn’t come up in any discussions I’ve had with Schuerholz, Cox, etc., this winter. But if I can just remember to, I’ll gladly ask….

Chrizzo, amazing thing about Hiatt is how good his music sounds almost regardless of what mood you’re in. You connect with him when you’re p’d or down, but also get uplifted by him, and he’s so soulful, nothing except Mahalia Jackson or Howlin’ Wolf sounds much better than that Bring the Family album on a Sunday morning.

But his Pefectly Good Guitar album is some of the best driving music around, especially the song Buffalo River Home. Oh, well….

The Decider, big fan of Dave Alvin, with the Blasters and especially the stuff he’s been doing the past 10 years or so with the Guilty Men and solo stuff. I got that covers album he did last year of California songwriters, which includes a great Haggard tune, Kern River….

Stranger, I just really hope something happens to stop Barry from passing Hank. I really do. Nothing to harm him in his regular life, not wishing ill on the man, but something, anything, to stop him from playing long enough to get Hank’s record….

Just talked to a Mariners writer from Seattle paper. Surprised and pleased to hear about Reitsma’s deal. Good for him. Fresh start, new league, and pretty short flight to his home in Calgary….

DonC, no worries. Just good, heated debate (wish my ex and I could have recovered so well from debates.)…

Sam, solid contribution to the discussion. Please come back again.

By TennesseePaul

January 5, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

Hotspur:

Now, I like Joe Simpson. He’s a good annoucer and all and I’ve appreciated him calling the Braves games over the years. But just because Joe says something, doesn’t make it true.
I’m not a weight lifter or body builder, so I don’t know too much about this stuff. I went looking to find out more. I found this source Here is some of it…

…in late 1996, a steroidal compound called androstenedione appeared on the dietary supplement market. Androstenedione or “andro,” a precursor to the sex hormone testosterone, achieved national notoriety in 1998 when a bottle of the pills was spotted in the locker of St. Louis Cardinals slugger Mark McGwire. In the years that followed, androstenedione was followed by myriad other steroid precursor pills - commonly called “prohormones” by industry and consumers - which were marketed to increase lean body mass.

The New Anabolic Steroid Control Act

The Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 took effect on January 20, 2005, revising and expanding the Anabolic Steroid Control Act that had been passed in 1990. The new law provides $15 million for educational programs for children about the dangers of anabolic steroids, and directs the U.S. Sentencing Commission to consider revising federal guidelines to increase the penalties for steroid and steroid precursor possession and distribution.

The law adds 26 new steroid compounds, including many steroid precursors, to the previous list of substances that are legally defined as “anabolic steroids.” [The new compounds are androstanediol; androstanedione; androstenediol; androstenedione; bolasterone; calusterone; 1-dihydrotestosterone (a.k.a. “1-testosterone”); furazabol; 13b-ethyl-17a-hydroxygon-4-en-3-one; 4-hydroxytestosterone; 4-hydroxy-19-nortestosterone; mestanolone; 17a-methyl-3b,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androstane; 17a-methyl-3a,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androstane; 17a-methyl-3b,17b-dihydroxyandrost-4-ene; 17a-methyl-4-hydroxynandrolone; methyldienolone; methyltrienolone; 17a-methyl-1-dihydrotestosterone (a.k.a. “17-a-methyl-1-testosterone”); norandrostenediol; norandrostenedione; norbolethone; norclostebol; normethandrolone; stenbolone; and tetrahydrogestrinone.]…

Now, it would seem to me that, if the law went into affect January 20th, 2005, then it would not have been in affect prior to and therefore legal in 1998. Just saying. If that is incorrect… well… I guess I’d want to see the law that declared it illegal prior to 1998. Then I’d wonder why, when the Press saw the Andro in Big Mac’s locker, no one did anything.

Would it change my oppinion of Mac?
I guess. I could say I was proud of him for admitting it before anyone else. What more do you want? I read the posts that say he should have owned up to using… if andro were illegal at the time, then he did own up to it.

It’s all about the kids you know. $15 million ought to help.

By TLJ

January 5, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

KC, leave the poor man alone. He has an infection called met-ist. All mets fans have this disease, they become irrational and have no idea what they are saying. Most never recover and live their lives thinking their team won 14 of the last 15 NL East division titles. However, some are able to recover and realize there is only one team in NY and that is the Yankees. I pity the poor souls. Again be nice because he doesn’t know what he is saying.

By The Stranger

January 5, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

No, sir. No ill whatsoever. Just the daily grind of bone-on-bone. And the too long good riddance to talent squandered.

Selah

By Rosalynn

January 5, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about all this androstanediol; androstanedione; androstenediol; androstenedione; bolasterone; calusterone, all I know is that if I spilled a little it would make the floah sticka. I had more chin whiskas than Chippa before I stahted taking the medicine and now I have no chin haih at all. What is the big deal if it helps you thin the whiskas?

By Scalp 'em Braves

January 5, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Looks like Stinky is back, using “non de plumes”, and race baiting. Oh, the outrage!!

I’m tired of the HOF debate - its been going on all day and nobody has gotten anything solved - I agree with Dave - the point of his post was not to justify, or trash, McGwire’s or Bonds’ admission to the HOF. He said his peace as to both, but the point was if people are peeved about McGwire’s nomination, how will they feel when Bonds appears on the ballot 5 years after he retires, or is run out of the league.

Watching the MAS*H Marathon on TV land - for somebody who read the book, saw the movie in the theatre, and spent God knows how many years watching the TV series, this is Nirvana.

MASH trivia… shout it out if you know it.

Who is the only actor to appear in the same role in both the movie and the TV series? (name of character and actor required for this one).

The MASH theme/intro song, “Suicide is Painless” was sung on the TV series (not as part of the intro, but sitting on the helicopter pad as part of the show) by what musical artist?

Duke Forest, Hawkeye’s sidekick early in the movie (before Trapper John’s arrival), played football - name the position he played, and for what college?

What was Spearchucker Jones’ medical specialty?

What was the name of the actress who played Lt. Dish in the movie, and how did she get her name?

What was Radar O’Reilly’s given first name, and what town, and state, was he from?

What was Hawkeye’s “signature line”? And what did he do with his martini glass before he took a sip? (prominent in the movie and the first few shows on TV, then it went away).

What position did Hawkeye play on his college football team? What position did Trapper John play in college?

Who played the role of Frank Burns in the movie? Had anybody heard of him before this role?

What condiment did Trapper John bring to the Swamp when he first met Hawkeye and Duke in the movie?

Who played Major Charles Emerson Winchester (the snooty Bahston doctor) in the movie? Who played B J Hunnicut in the movie?

If this post generates enough interest/ response, more MASH trivia to come.

By The Stranger

January 5, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

My third favorite John Hiatt album is “Beneath This Gruff Exterior” with The Goners. They juice this album for JH kind of like The Heartless Bastards did for McMurtry on “Aught-Three.

Saw my Dad cry for the second time when he heard “My Dog and Me.”

I think, soon as he’s eligible, John Hiatt should be considered for induction to the Braves & Man in Black Blog Hall of Fame.

Free pie for life.

By I am the decider

January 5, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, check out the Dave Alvin and the guilty men CD, “out in California” if you haven’t already. It’s live and includes, “out in CA”, “Abilene”, etc., but includes a great version of “Who do you love?” plus, some idiot out in the audience kept screaming for “Free Bird” and Dave actually played a little of it for him!

By Greg in TN

January 5, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Now, he looks like Madeline Albright after she’s soaked overnight in a tub of milk - all gross and distohted.

Good grief, I’ll be laughing about Rosalynn’s post for days, even with the disturbing image Madeline Albright in a tub of milk would bring to mind…

Thanks DOB, not sure if it has been discussed by JS or BC. Just something that came to mind on the drive to work the other day.

I hope Reitsma does well in Seattle. He deserves a fresh start and now it seems like he’ll have it.

Steve C, I get the feeling you’re not a fan of John Schuerholz. But with all of the KC references and showing your a#$ and all, I can’t for the life of me remember how the Braves finished last year. Could you remind us? And while you’re at it, why don’t you enlighten the rest of us chumps/geeks/etc what you would have done differently?

By Alan

January 5, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

Steve C, exactly what have the Mets done this offseason to improve? Oh, I forgot, they don’t need to improve - they won … oops! If you think the Mets are going to coast to another divisional crown without improving their starting pitching, I believe you’re in for a rude awakening. The Braves are better if for no other reason than having Bob Wickman all year. You scoff at Soriano’s addition, but most so-called experts say he’s as good a setup man as there is. The Phillies have done a heck of a lot more to upgrade their starting pitching than the Mets have. If you’re not concerned about them, you should be. We’ll see how smug you are next October. I’m sure you were mighty smug at the beginning of last October. Again, how were you feeling at the end of the month?

By Hotspur

January 5, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Who is the only actor to appear in the same role in both the movie and the TV series? (name of character and actor required for this one).

Gary Burghoff as Corporal Walter “Radar” O’Reilly

The MASH theme/intro song, “Suicide is Painless” was sung on the TV series (not as part of the intro, but sitting on the helicopter pad as part of the show) by what musical artist?

Beats me.

(Duke Forest, Hawkeye’s sidekick early in the movie (before Trapper John’s arrival), played football - name the position he played, and for what college?

Beats me.

What was Spearchucker Jones’ medical specialty?

Uh… No, I’ll stick with Beats me.

What was the name of the actress who played Lt. Dish in the movie, and how did she get her name?

Jo Ann Pflug. I’m assuming her parents gave it to her.

What was Radar O’Reilly’s given first name, and what town, and state, was he from?

Walter, as previously mentioned. He was from Ottumwa, Iowa.

What was Hawkeye’s “signature line”? And what did he do with his martini glass before he took a sip? (prominent in the movie and the first few shows on TV, then it went away).

Signature line: “Finestkind.”

No idea about the glass.

What position did Hawkeye play on his college football team? What position did Trapper John play in college?

Nope and nope.

Who played the role of Frank Burns in the movie? Had anybody heard of him before this role?

Robert Duvall. His family had heard of him, of course - oh, you mean professionally? Well, he did play Boo Radley in “To Kill a Mockingbird.”

What condiment did Trapper John bring to the Swamp when he first met Hawkeye and Duke in the movie?

No clue.

Who played Major Charles Emerson Winchester (the snooty Bahston doctor) in the movie? Who played B J Hunnicut in the movie?

Why, you trickster. Those characters weren’t IN the movie. Aren’t you the sly dog.

And aren’t I ashamed that I know that much about MASH.

By Scalp 'em Braves

January 5, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Stranger: Interesting comment about the Hiatt song and your Dad’s reaction. I had a similiar experience many years ago. The first time I had my Pop listen to Cat Steven’s “Father and Son” song - I was 19…I told him I wanted him to listen to this song - his first reaction was “what the hell kind of name for a man is “Cat”? but, he listened to it, and made me play it again - then, he looked at me and said “Talk to me in 20 years, when you have a son of your own, and tell me you won’t feel the same way I feel right now. This song says what every father feels, and I can remember feeling the same thing when I was young.” The line that got him was the son’s statement “From the time I oould talk, I was ordered to listen”. I never forgot that line, that song, or its message as I raised my sons. I can’t say I was always true to that as a father, but “I did my best”.

The other Cat Stevens song that rings so true for me was “Hard Headed Woman”. At first, you think this is a “funny song” about “Butt-Headed” women. As you listen to it, though, he is looking for that one woman who will change him.

I’m looking for a hard headed woman, one who’ll make me do my best… and if I find my hard headed woman, I know the rest of my life will be blessed… Yes, yes, yes….”

Fortunately, I found my “hard headed woman” who made me do my best. 26 years later, she is still kicking my arse - and I am thankful.

By Scalp 'em Braves

January 5, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

Hotspur - not bad. Right on about Radar/Gary being the common actor between the movie and the series. Ditto for Winchester and Honeycutt - slipped that one in there hoping Stinky would take a shot at it, and once again expose his ignorance. Correct on Jo Ann Pflug (where the hell did her family come up with the spelling of that last name, anyway) - strike 3 on the origin of the name - will leave that to a MASH-O_PHILE. Also correct on Duvall - he seemed to disappear between TKAM and MASH - boy, has he done himself proud since, though. (further Duvall trivia - can you name his next big movie role, and what his “signature line was?) Also correct on Hawkeye’s “signature line”. A good response - go get the book, or rent the movie, or both (read the book first though).

By N8

January 5, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

how you guys been doing.

Sorry (to those of you that I don’t annoy LOL!), that I haven’t been around. Busy at work, and WAAAAAAAY too busy reading my Chiefs blogs and website. By some miracle (ghost of Lamar Hunt maybe?), they got into the “dance”.

Anybody think they have a shot in hell of beating the Colts?

Anyway, just got done reading MOST (skimming the rest) of the posts. GOOD STUFF, IMO.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Bonds debate.

As for Rose, I’m with you DOB (at least I think it’s you’r stance of “seperating” player Rose from Manager Rose, that he should be put in HOF, and remain “LOCKED OUT” of anything having to do with MLB.

To me it’s the perfect solution. That way when I take my kids to Cooperstown someday, I can say: “here’s Pete Rose, the Greatest HITTER to ever play the game (even though Gwynn is a close second if not a better hitter - just not as many hits). That being said kids, you should NEVER gamble on sports if you are involved in them…..”

Which of course could lead me into the Black Sox scandal.

Maybe they should put him in the HOF, and NOT let him participate in the celebration, or EVER step foot in the building. A little harsh? Sure, but WE as fans get what we want (for those of us who think HIS NUMBERS warrant him being there), and MLB still gets what they want…..Rose being banned from baseball and it’s ceremonies/celebrations.

By Scalp 'em Braves

January 5, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

More MASH trivia..

What does the author of MASH and a prostitute have in common?

What was the name of the dentist (in the movie) who wanted to commit suicide, and why did he want to commit suicide?

Who brought the dentist “back to life”? And what clinched his/her decision to bring him back to life?

Who sang “Suicide is Painless” at the dentist’s suicide event? (in the movie).

By Ron

January 6, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this

N8, I Think that the Chiefs will beat the Colts, and I am a very big Colts fan. Larry Johnson will run all over the Colts louzy rush defense. Johnson will have 265 rushing yards in that game. and the Chiefs will win 35-21. Hate to say that.

By Lew

January 6, 2007 09:26 AM | Link to this

N8-I would also induct Rose into the HOF-In the middle of the night with absolutely NO induction ceremony and famfare (this would no doubt p!ss Rose off to no end) and never allow him into a dugout or clubhouse again.

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

I have been reading some of the post on here about Bonds. Here is my 2 cents. Here is why I think race may affect the way Bonds treats the media. When he was a kid growing up in the clubhouses with Willie Mays and Hank A., he had to witness the media, fans, and baseball as a whole mistreat minorities in the game. As a kid growing up, you are witnessing great minority ballpalyers not get the recognition or respect they deserved at that time. I beleive Bonds is a product of what he saw and was told as a child. Granted we look at Mays and Hank as heroes now, but back then they had to play this game with a high level of skill and intesity and still not be able reap the rewards of counterparts who werent pulling their weight or just really werent that good. You know you deserve better but they still wont give it to you becasue you are a minority. Latin players had the same struggle when they broke into the majors. As a kid growing up, either you will try to change this when you get older, or adopt the same idealogy when you are an adult. I’m not saying Mays and Hank were mean to the media and whites (Caucasian American), but Bonds as a kid wathcing 2 of the most talented MLB players of your era get treated like 3rd class citizens has got to touch you somewhere. I mean they had to have their own Negro Leauge and prove MLB worthy before being taken seriously in this sport. I’m just saying right or wrong, I can see why we Bonds has all that a-holeness in him for the media. As far as his HOF situation goes, I hopes he makes it and then explain the reason for the chip on his shoulder, maybe it will open some eyes that remain closed.

By John Adcox

January 6, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Thanks, O’Brien. Thanks a lot. Now I’ve had to go out and buy Crossing Muddy Waters, Master of Disaster, and The Tiki Bar is Open. I’ll tell my wife to blame you. Seriously, great stuff.

Much as I like it, at first listen, I think I like the Ron Sexsmith stuff even better. I downloaded the iTunes Essentials, and now I may need to get the albums.

Glad you liked Children of Men. So here’s the question. The end. Hopeful or bleak?

By journalist jimmy smith

January 6, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

and who will be the winner of the wurlitzer? wendell wurlitzer has asked for information from the wurlitzer selection panel so that the wurlitzer may be commissioned. all wurlitzer selection members please be prepared to respond to willard wurlitzer within the week.

and where is carroll rogers?

can carroll rogers win the wurlitzer this time and if so, will the wurlitzer portrait perhaps be of barry manilow or clay aiken or michael bolton? and what if such a portrait is made and carroll does not win? will dob hang such a portrait in his basement? much to consider.

By Lew

January 6, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

MetroDude-We are all a product of our upbringing. However, Barry Bonds does not live in the 60’s. I may be somewhat naive, but it was my impression that we had traveled a long road since the time of the major civil rights activism of the 60’s. Bonds does not face the problems that his Dad and Mays did. For crying out loud, even with the suspicion of steroid use, Bonds still won what, five MVP awards? I’m sorry. Metro Dude, but that adds up to respect, not discrimination. Besides, Hank Aarron is a person of color, also, and it is Hank’s record Bonds is trying to beat. Hank did, indeed, put up with rampant racism going for Ruth’s record, but I hardly think that’s the case with Barry. The only resistance to Barry’s enshrinement in the HOF or to his pursuit of the all-time HR record derives from his rotten attitude to fans and media-the fact that he’s a complete and utter a$$ weighs into the situation in a major fashion, not the fact that he’s a black athlete who for most of his career, has played for either black or Hispanic managers.

By Lew

January 6, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Esteemed Journalist Jimmy, Seal Daddy-THe Wurlitzer portrait has, indeed, been finished. The Wurlitzer Selection Committee is preparing to meet in the near future. Last year’s portrait of Zamfir was so well received, that it was necessary to choose someone of equal standing as 07’s subject. There will be more information shortly. The tension is merciless. BTW-Clay Aiken is not a singer. I’m not quite certain what, exactly, he is. No Clay Aiken portrait. Perhaps Tiny Tim or Davy Jones of the Monkees.

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Come on Lew, lets be reasonable. I’m not defending Bonds reason, just giving you a possible reason to why he treats the media and baseball personell the way he does. We know he has recieved a lot of accolades for his accomplishments but becasue this is not the 60’s we problably dont hear about the racist idiots who try to reach him and casue problems. Even though as a society we have come a long way, some things didnt change, they just got recycled. We know Bonds is an a-hole and becasue he is an MLB star, makes tons of money, he feels he can treat people any kind of way and his PAST does not help the situation.

By KC

January 6, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

TLJ: Of course you’re right. I should really be more compassionate. =)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 6, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

I really don’t think race has much to do with this whole Bonds issue but MetroMan you bring up a good point. Also, I find it a bit annoying to hear people go on and on about Ruth. Yes, he did play the game cleanly. However, the man was nowhere near a saint. By his days standards he was the Shawn Kemp or Darryl Strawberry of his day. The man was a drunk and a womanizer. He embodied gluttoness. But, to listen to people speak you would think the man was the salt of the earth. Truth is Hank Aaron is a 1,000 times better man than Bonds or Ruth.

Fact is blacks and minorities bring race up way too often, but whites are also guilty of hypocrisy and untruthfulness. Because I read time after time on this blog this time last year how it would be a travesty for Bonds to pass such a great man as Ruth. “He was everything a man should aspire to be.” Really?! Oh, I didn’t realize that sleeping with every woman in a 100 mile radius and drunken binges is what every man should want to be. Give me a break. And, the fact is, even if Bonds didn’t have any of these clouds over his head, people would be bringing up his personal life and personality because they don’t like him. I wish somebody would tell me the opposite. You know its true!

Here’s the truth if you can handle it. Bonds is a cheater who obtained SOME of his stats through artificial means but here in the last seven or so years has been a good family man despite being a total a** to everyone else.

Ruth obtained his records and stats cleanly but was anything but a family man or a man with “family values”. So, the fact is neither one of them should be held up as great men and neither one of them deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Hank Aaron.

I’m ready to get blasted but I don’t care because I am sick of these double standards that exist or this revisionist history to constantly gets presented.

By The Grinch

January 6, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

The Mariners signed Reitsma for 2 million. 2 million. For Reitsma. I guess they didn’t dupe us with Soriano; they really are that stupid. Gotta get some work done.

By MBATL

January 6, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Lew, MetroMan, you could argue either way on this. Yeah, most every black kid in the 60’s probably saw their dads treated like 2nd class citizens… it’s just a terrible but real part of our history as a nation.

On the other hand, Barry’s father, godfather (Mays) and of course Aaron all rose above the fray, with grace and class - and made fortunes by the day’s standards. You really can’t use racism as an excuse for a dark heart (well, you can, but I wouldn’t).

Just read an interesting article on ESPN.com about what an a-hole BB was in college at AZ State … actually voted off the team by his teammates, but the coach didn’t follow through. here is the link, if you’re interested.

Anyway, his dealings with the media, or his attitude about life in general, shouldn’t have anything to do with his HOF status - and I don’t think it will.

I’m not a Bonds fan (at all!), but there are worse things than being surly with the media. He’s never been accused of being abusive to his family, or anyone else…

I am a ‘purist’ about baseball, though, and believe that if a guy is PROVEN to have cheated (i.e., used illegal steroids, bet on baseball, etc) he should be banned; beyond that, it’s up to the writers to make the decision - and I think BB will get in easily.

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I just read that article MBATL. I still wonder though that as a tike going around the big league clubs with your dad, (Bobby Bonds) God father (Mays) and family friend (H. Aaron), seeing the lack of respect and love will give you a negative vibe. Now for all we know Bonds would have been the same with or without the problems that Bobby Bonds, Mays, and Aaron had to deal with. However he did deal with it at our most impreshinable time in our lives, as a child. Have you seen some of the clips with him hanging out in the dugouts as a kid??? And reading the way Bobby Bonds charged the coach in that article, I wouldn think the ideaolgy about treating peoeple fell far from the tree. Hall of fame…..I would vote yes but would still like a real excuse about the lack of respect for the media. Productive members of society take care of their families, gains respect form the community, and is usually loved by many. B. Bonds is a productive member of baseball becasue of numbers and nothing else. I

By MBATL

January 6, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Yeah, well it was a big stage, for sure, and I guess everything is magnified. He had a lot of privilege, and a lot of talent, but I guess saw a lot of bad things too. We’re all products of our experience, to some extent at least.

Actually the hatred hasn’t been restricted to race; Maris went through a lot of hate, including death threats, when we was chasing Ruth’s record of 61 in a season. And, I think he was always at odds with the media.

Ruth was a drinker and womanizer for sure, and Ty Cobb was just a bad human being … of course none of those guys had ESPN broadcasting their every word on the hour, every hour.

By Lew

January 6, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-Sorry, man, but the whole Bonds situation is not about race. Not now nor has it ever been. Bonds just doesn’t like anyone questioning him about anything, especially the steroid business. Just face it, the guy’s just not a nice guy. That’s fine, though, it shouldn’t have anything to do with his HOF election. I’m sorry if he had bad racial experiences-no one should have to put up with discriination regardless of social status, race, creed, national origin or that they are overweight or ugly. I know it still happens, though not nearly as much as 40 years ago. But in the long run, it is a moot point, just like the fact that my stepfather beat the sh!t out of me on a regular basis. Dude, I got over it and Bonds needs to go beyond his childhood, too. In the long run, this is about adult behavior and not that of a six year old at Daddy’s knee. Wish I had a Godfather like Willie Mays.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 6, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

mbatl, you must have missed this one: Ex-Wife Tells Court Bonds Abused Her

Published: December 8, 1995

BARRY BONDS’s former wife told a court in Redwood City, Calif., that the star beat and kicked her, describing him as an egotistical wife-beater who wanted to control her life.

The witness, SUN BONDS, cried Wednesday when she said that the attacks by Bonds, a San Francisco Giants outfielder, included one when she was eight months pregnant.

The testimony was a dramatic start to the second phase of the couple’s divorce trial before a San Mateo County Superior Court judge, JUDITH KOZLOSKI, who already upheld a 1987 prenuptial agreement in which the two agreed to keep their financial assets separate. (AP)

in a follow-up article the nyt reports that bonds admitted kicking sun bonds after she kicked him first.

journalist is not picking on mbatl- just reminding him that barry has the label “wife beater” - google it and you will see.

By Matthew

January 6, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

Alright, MASH* trivia answers. I know some have been answered, but I’ll do my best.

Gary Burgoff appeared in both the movie and TV series, and there was a pilot episode shot for a MASH spinoff starring Burgoff as a police office called WALTER, but it never aired (Walter Eugene O’Reilly is Radar’s given name, and he was from Otumwa, IA).

Hawkeye always said, “Finest kind,” and raised his glass before drinking.

Robert Duvall was Frank Burns in the movie.

No Charles or BJ in the movie, but David Ogden Stiers played Winchester in the series, and Mike Ferrell played BJ.

The dentist’s name was the Painless Pole (I think they even sang “Suicide is Painless” in the movie as he was laying on a table about to die).

I’m not good on the movie, but I own all eleven seasons of the series on DVD, and have found a good MASH site for any fans who want to check it out.

http://mash4077.co.uk

Here’s one for you. In the episode “Give and Take,” Winchester and Mulcahy are talking. If you look closely, you’ll see someone’s portrait on the shelf that doesn’t belong. Whose picture is it, and why doesn’t it belong?

By Lew

January 6, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

JJS-Roid Rage?

By Metropolitan Man

January 6, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

I agree with that LEW. Granted people with common sense can remove past expereiences for a better future but all are not equipped with common sense. I by no means agree with what Bonds is doing unless certain things that were going on back in the day were happening now. I know he cant use race issues in todays MLB society, but being a jerk and harboring those feelings problably gives us the Bonds we have come to know. The wierd thing is he can fix some of this by sitting down and giving good interviews about his life. Now becasue he has burned so many media bridges, it will be hard to get to know none other than media Bonds. If we are looking at integrity there is a question mark about him, if we are looking at stats, roll out the red carpet here he comes. Its a shame such great stats will alwyas be debateble becasue he never became a peopels person and he most likely dipped into the human growth stuff.

By bruce

January 6, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Now I am even more impressed with Chris Reitsma.

Just read the article on Mariner’s MLB.com site and then watched the 11 minute video of Chris being introduced, most of it Chris answering questions… will be interested to hear what you guys think after listening to Chris.

Dave: Maybe you are now more free to share inside scoop about the timing of Chris speaking of his injury last season… he is really informative and upfront in the introduction video. Thanks, Bruce

By Lew

January 6, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

An author friend of mine once wrote something to the effect that you could explore the reasons for and probably find out why a person is an SOB. However, when all is said and done, you are left with an SOB.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2007 01:09 PM | Link to this

JAdcox, very provocative and open-ended conclusion to Children Of Men, wasn’t it? Bleak of hopeful. I don’t know, man. I just don’t know. I bet the book would offer a more conclusive conclusion, if you will….

By the way, Crossing Muddy Waters, Master of Disaster, and The Tiki Bar is Open are all great. I was really glad to see him get back to bluesier stuff with the Crossing Muddy Waters CD….

Ron Sexsmith and James McMurtry, to me, are about the most underappreciated huge talents out there. But I kinda like that they’re under the radar, to a degree. Makes you feel like you’re enjoying something special, that relatively few others are. Kinda like, oh, that Timberlake fella (groan).

I’d highly recommend these Sexsmith CDs: Cobblestone Runway, Whereabouts, and Retriever.

By Bobbymahlon

January 6, 2007 01:10 PM | Link to this

Sorry but I don’t agree with all you people that want to platoon at second base. It is very difficult to have a good double play combination when you are platooning the second basemen.I did not see anything in Aybar that excited me last year but again he was only here for a short time. I’m sure somebody is going to step up and fill the second base job this spring from within our own organization. I hope it will be KJ.

By Random Storyteller

January 6, 2007 01:30 PM | Link to this

There was a man who worked for the Post Office whose job it was to process all the mail that had illegible addresses.

One day, a letter came addressed in a shaky handwriting to God with no actual address. He thought he should open it to see what it was about.

The letter read:

Dear God,

I am an 68 years old, living on a very small pension. Yesterday, someone stole my wallet. It had $100 in it, which was all the money I had until my next pension check.

Next Sunday is Christmas, and I had invited two of my friends over for dinner. Without that money, I have nothing to buy food with. I have no one to turn to, and you are my only hope.

Can you please help me?

Sincerely, Bobby Dews

The postal worker was touched. He showed the letter to all the other workers. Each one dug into his or her wallet and came up with a few dollars. By the time he made the rounds, he had collected $96, which they put into an envelope and sent to the pensioner. The rest of the day, all the workers felt a warm glow thinking of Bobby and the dinner he would be able to share with his friends.

Christmas came and went.

A few days later, another letter came from Bobby to God. All the workers gathered around while the letter was opened.

It read,

Dear God,

How can I ever thank you enough for what you did for me? Because of your gift of love, I was able to fix a glorious dinner for my friends. We had a very nice day and I told my friends of your wonderful gift.

By the way, there was $4 missing.

I think it must have been those bastards at the Post Office.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2007 01:32 PM | Link to this

Wow, just sitting here thinking how quickly the rumor mill has slowed to a trickle. Maybe I’m speaking too soon and the Braves will do something big this week, but I just don’t get that impression anymore. Not hearing anything pending, not getting calls from other writers, asking if I know anything about this or that rumor or gossip….

As far as free agents, when you get to the point where Tomo Ohka is a hot topic, folks, you’re reaching the bottom of the barrel….

Whither J.T. (Thomson) and Todd Pratt? Starting to think they might have to settle for minor league deals with big league invites, though I still think Thomson could hook up with someone in the next two weeks. Frankly, he’s a lot better than some contenders’ fourth and fifth starters….

Grinch, remember what you said about ND’s Quinn being overrated? Switch to hardwood and here’s another, even more overrated player: Duke’s Greg Paulus. And not just because he’s been pretty much a non-factor today vs. VaTech. I’ve watched him for a couple years now, and just don’t think he holds a candle to so many Duke guards of the past two decades.

But damn, the Dookies are a resilient bunch despite him.

By Robert

January 6, 2007 01:44 PM | Link to this

“In the past three seasons, Adam Dunn has struck out 567 times in 1,672 at-bats.”

Adam Dunn is to hitting what Bobby Cox is to managing. He puts up big numbers that look impressive at first glance, but purists who understand the art get nauseated watching him at work

The steroid issue’s biggest lesson really ought to be that it’s quality and not necessarily quantity that matters, or that determines who should or shouldnt be in the HOF

Steroids or not, McGwire was a one dimensional player - There are two somewhat justifiable arguements for enshrining him. One is that he is a member of the 500 hr club. I personally dont believe in automatics based on quantitative numbers - example - guys who get 3000 hits are probly gonna prove to be good enough to merit enshrinement, but that shouldnt (to me) mean that 3000 hits equals enshrinement

The second is based the role that he and Sosa’s chases of Maris had in breathing life back into the game.

McGwire was never a great hitter - with or without any chemicals

Bonds - was a big run producer, and a guy who hit for power and average and who had speed to boot, for a long time way before his little helper made the quantitative numbers ridiculous

Look- Bret Boone hit 40 home runs one year while he was juiced. Didnt make him a great player.

People who argue that the steroid guys (if we could ever get close to proving it) dont belong, these folks dont get it

I tend to see things somewhat black and white so to me it’s kinda clear and obvious, - I dont care if Bret Boone hit 142 home runs in a season, he wasnt any good, and I dont care if Bonds grafted an elephant c** to his body and used it for leverage, he was a great player

Gambling on the game while in the game is another story. That’s a predtermined and fairly warned death penalty. End of story

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2007 01:55 PM | Link to this

Robert, strong points (well, except for the Dunn/Cox comparison, but at least you confined that subject to one sentence this time). And your Bonds-leverage line was quite humorous, although the visual it left with me is a bit disturbring.

Funny stuff, dude.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2007 01:56 PM | Link to this

OK, gotta go enjoy a bit of global-warming motorcycling enjoyment before the Chiefs-Colts tilt.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2007 01:58 PM | Link to this

Oh, my, glad I didn’t turn off the TV yet: Paulus just set up to take a charge and the VaTech dude jumped COMPLETELY OVER HIM and layed it in. SERIOUSLY, he jumped OVER HIM! You’ll see it on SportsCenter. Wow.

By David

January 6, 2007 01:59 PM | Link to this

Hey my fellow bloggers, I really don’t have a problem with Mark McGuire, Barry Bonds, “Slammin” Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmero, Jose Canseco, Brett Boone or anyone else accused of using steriods going into the Hall of Fame. I just don’t think that those guys who I just mentioned should go in the “Baseball Hall of Fame”. I do think however that there should be a separate Hall of Fame to put those guys into and you could call it the “Steroid Hall of Fame”. Just put all of those bums in the Steroid Hall of Fame to completely separate their indiscretions from the “pure” Baseball Hall of Fame so that the Baseball Hall of Fame which has Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Henry Aaron and all those guys doesn’t get “soiled” if you will. Let the Baseball Hall of Fame remain spotless and kept with integrity and you can put all of the criminals and bums in the Steroid Hall of Fame or you could name it the Scandalous Hall of Fame where scandals are accepted so then you can put Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose in with the rest of the guys for them to take their place with the immortals who have soiled the game. They will fit in just perfectly there. But keep them out the Baseball Hall of Fame so we can keep that HOF sacred.

By RW

January 6, 2007 02:29 PM | Link to this

Mr. O’Brien, I think the media should accept some blame in this whole steroid debate. When McGwire and Sosa were on their chase, the freakish appearance of the two of them and others whos numbers magically jumped were largely swept under the rug. How many glowing articles were written about how the two of them “helped to save baseball” after the strike, only now to hear the same writers express shock and outrage at how they cheated and tarnished the record books? Sure, we heard of the Andro or whatever in McGwire’s locker, but it was never made into a big deal, and shouldn’t have been since it was an over the counter substance. However, I don’t remember that sparking any steroids questions.

I think the media, to a large extent, used the situation to their advantage, got the ratings, sold the magazines and papers and swept the elephant under the rug. Then, when the story first started to break about steroids, they turned on the players they were in bed with, and reported the ugly side of it, again, creating ratings, selling magazines and papers. It seems like the story was there to break for years, if they wanted to, they just chose to wait, and ride the HR chase for ratings. One reason I’m skeptical is that there have been reporters in locker rooms for years, and over time, had to notice something was fishy with these guys bulking up so much.

My take is, I agree that Bonds should get in, based on what he did up to ‘99. I just hope there’s some way to have an asterisk next to some of the homerun records he has or will have by the end of this year. Isn’t one of the judgements on whether someone is HOF worthy whether or not they were a dominant player for nearly a decade? McGwire’s stats show that he had some big years, but was not dominant for a decade. He was dominant as a rookie, then again during the “steroid period”. Same for Sosa, so, no, neither should be in. Bonds was, however one of the best for a decade, before steroids, so yes he should be in.

As for the guys arguing Nolan Ryan’s dominance, or whether he was one of the ten best of all time, he was absolutely one of the five most dominant of all time. Yes, he walked people at an historically high rate, but that doesn’t factor in to dominance. Ask this question: Who overpowered hitters more than anyone? The answer is the strikeout king-by far. Walks were his own doing, hitters didn’t have success against him, he hurt himself.

Mr. O’Brien, did you ever get the new Jet CD? It’s better than the first. Every song from both of their CD’s will remind you of some ‘60’s, ‘70’s band, but in a good way. The second CD has a few more Beatles-sounding songs on it.

By MBATL

January 6, 2007 04:34 PM | Link to this

I did miss that (or, forgot about it), jjs. No more social commentary for me… give the Braves a lefty out of the ‘pen and all is right with the world.

By brewdawg

January 6, 2007 06:37 PM | Link to this

Good luck Chris Reitsma. I sincerely hope you do well in Seattle. Sorry it didn’t work out here.

By Jared

January 6, 2007 08:47 PM | Link to this

Same old, same old in today’s rumor department. I’m pretty sure now that the Braves aren’t going to do anything else, at least not until March during spring training.

http://msn.foxsports.com/fantasy/story/6340140

“The Pirates are still holding out hope they can land Adam LaRoche. However, the Braves want not only Mike Gonzalez but also a potential leadoff hitter. Chris Duffy could be that man, but the Pirates are probably unwilling to deal him.”

By The Grinch

January 6, 2007 09:10 PM | Link to this

Hey, y’all; haven’t checked back over the blog yet. Just thought I’d bring up a couple of quick observations about the Cowboys-Seahawks game. Matt Hasselbeck’s mom is unusually hot, and she can’t be young. Dude’s bald as a coot and been kickin’ around the league for a while. They showed her in the stands next to his wife, and while his wife was what you’d expect from a multi-millionaire athlete, mom wasn’t far behind. Also, John Madden said these two gems about the Cowboys in a 5-minute space: “The defense needs to figure out how to put their fingers in the d**,” and “Romo’s balls are all over the place.” Gotta love it, especially since Michaels didn’t even get it and laugh, or point it out either time. You can tell they’ve both been out of style so long they’re almost back in. Almost.

By Eric

January 6, 2007 09:19 PM | Link to this

Woo! Sports! 1) I’d like to thank Indy’s Defense for showing up today and proving ESPN analysts that if Peyton has a bad game the Colts go home. Thumbs up to you 2) Thumbs down to Mike Krzyzewski. You can’t let a Seth Greenberg team beat you. No coach should. 3) Two thumbs up BIG EAST! 5-0 in bowl games. Thanks for not choking, Cinci. 4) Two thumbs down to me for not having any braves content off the top of my head that hasn’t been said. BTW - thanks to the person who presented braves.scouts.com, I had never been there and it has some interesting things on it. Thanks again.

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2007 09:42 PM | Link to this

Alright, that’s it for me. Gotta watch the second half closer, to see Hasselback’s mom. Wonder if she’s single….

By Eric

January 6, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

I noticed Villarreal is pitching winter ball. Is anyone worried his arm might fall off with all the innings he’s thrown in the past calendar year?

By Matthew

January 6, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Thumbs up to the Arkansas Razorbacks, who mauled the Crimson Tide 88-61 today, completely dismantling the #8 Tide. Go Hogs!

By The Grinch

January 6, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

The ‘hawks just got REAMED with an interception call that should’ve been ruled incomplete. And no, I don’t particularly care which team wins. BTW, can y’all believe Mora’s in the halftime booth for this game? If MY job had hinged on making the playoffs, and I’d only learned six days before I’d lost our shot at the playoffs and MY JOB by the skin of my teeth, I’ll be danged if I’d be nonchelant enough to be joking in the booth during the FIRST DAY of the first round. I’d be at home soaking it in and regrouping; at least LOOKING like I cared. What a loser. My god. And, yeah, Dave; I’m a reasonably good-looking 33 year old and I’d be more than proud to sport Hasselbeck’s mom around town; noticed his dad wasn’t in the stands…hmmm. :-)

By Thrillhouse44

January 6, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Another suggestion for one of the top 10 movies of ‘06: Invincible. I just watched it and it was incredible. I actually found myself rooting for the Eagles. (That’s tough to admit as a Redskins fan.)

By brian

January 6, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

how about his sister in law DOB? Of course she is not single, but still…

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

January 6, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Will Romo become the next Wohlers after the Leyritz homer?

By David O'Brien

January 6, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

From Pro Bowl to that fumble-plagued finish to his season and the playoffs. What a ride for Romo….

Thrillhouse, was it that good? I’ve heard such mixed reviews for that movie, but if you and others say it’s great, maybe I should rent it.

Got the George Jones-Merle Haggard album “Kicking Out The Stage Lights … Again.” Hag sings some of Jones’ songs, and Possum sings some of Hag’s, and the legends do four together. ‘Nuff said.

Voices ain’t what they used to be, but more soul and sincerity, not to mention rich songwriting, on one CD by two guys in their 70s than from 100 CDs from today’s hat-wearing Nashville hitmakers.

By elbravox

January 6, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

Wow, gotta love sports!

By The Grinch

January 6, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

Romo had a bad day, and I mean a bad one…but he’ll bounce back. He’s got stones. Parcells might be done, though; he got totally outcoached by Holmgren. We shall see. Still haven’t seen invincible. With the Cowboys out, the Iggies got a better chance now.

By DAP

January 7, 2007 01:00 AM | Link to this

i just saw what blanco has been doing in venezuela this winter. he hit .317 in the regular season, and i assume hes been batting leadoff. the article on the braves official site says he is batting leadoff in the post season. if he continues this during spring training, i think weve got a new left fielder. what now do we do with diaz or langerhans? maybe someone will give us a lefty for them.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 7, 2007 02:56 AM | Link to this

I just looked at Blanco’s numbers in the minors this past season. They actually got better when he went to Richmond. I also noticed TJ Bohn’s numbers. They are quite impressive. You have to wonder why the Mariners put him on waivers.

By Stinky

January 7, 2007 06:59 AM | Link to this

Matt Hasselbeck’s mom is probably in her early 50’s. That puts her in DOB’s age bracket.

As for the the ‘reasonably good looking’ Grinch, I have an image of a green who-hater, standing in front of a mirror, repeating the mantra,* “I’m Good Enough, I’m Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!”*

And, then, weeks later, I see the Grinch and Matt Hasselbeck’s Mom in a kitchen, in bathrobes, enjoying a bowl of Chunky Soup. The Grinch bursts out: “You like me. You really like me!”

To which she replies, “Eat your soup. And don’t slurp.”

By TLJ

January 7, 2007 08:43 AM | Link to this

Jared, I read in the buccoblog a few days ago Duffy was not the hold up. The Braves are apparently asking for Malcholm and Gonzalez. Pirates GM Littlefiled has said no. Quite frankly I think we should get all 3.

By Efrim Dragovic

January 7, 2007 09:28 AM | Link to this

TLJ, I agree. Since when did Duffy become the deal braker. Gonzalez, Gorzelanny, and Duffy for Laroche. I don’t even know why the Braves are considering trading Laroche. Who is batting clean up after Andruw leaves???? If you keep Laroche, he could.

By Carroll

January 7, 2007 09:30 AM | Link to this

Grinch: how can you say that Parcells got “totally outcoached”?! I mean…that game was the Cowboys’ to win six ways to Sunday, but his players kept making dumbass mistakes like inexplicably setting the ball down on the goal line (Terry Glenn), screwing up the placement on the field goal (Romo), etc. I thought he did a marvelous job, and if he leaves the Cowboys I hope he’ll find his way down to Flowery Branch and whip that $100 million prima donna QB into shape!

By Carroll

January 7, 2007 09:37 AM | Link to this

But just why the hell is your starting QB holding for field goals anywho??!! Is Drew Bledsoe busy?!

Yea I was also shocked to see Mora on the halftime show but I thought he did well. I hold no personal animosity toward him…I even think that one day he will become a great NFL and/or College coach with experience and maturity. I just hate it for him that he was handcuffed to homey-the-clown here in Atl….circumstances under which NO coach will be able to win. But what is this nonsense Mora keeps regurgitating when asked about his firing…”this is a tough business and it demands tough people”…what does that even mean?!

By Lew

January 7, 2007 09:40 AM | Link to this

Everyone keeps asking about clean up after Andruw and no one has mentioned Francoeur, one of the league’s top RBI men with 2 outs. Stinky-Keep reciting the Stuart Smalley mantra and some day you might actually believe it.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 7, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

May I ask why all the venom towards Homey the Clown aka Michael Vick? If Vince Young was the quarterback would y’all feel better or still be upset? Just wondering.

By Kentavo

January 7, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

I had a strange dream last nightwhere the Braves were bringing back guys from “the glory days” becuase of budget constr aints. In my dream it was mid-July, and the Braves had gone on a 13-game winning streak with Lemke as lead-off hitter/Giles replacement, and Wohlers was in the ‘pen. He wasn’t the closer, however. Believe me, it was puzzling, as I tried to figure out how old these guys are. I suppose Wohlers would be more realistic than the Lemmer.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Kentavo, if your Saturday night dreams have Mark Lemke in them, you might have some issues.

By the way, was Stu Klitenic in there with Lemmer?

(just kidding with you)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 7, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

I just read in the Pittsburgh Gazette where the Pirates beat writer (I believe that is what he is) says that a deal for LaRoche is not dead. He said a couple of Pirate officials confirmed in the last week that both sides are still talking and attempting to come to a resolution. Now, he says the Braves did want Duffy but that the Pirates are unwilling to part with him, which I don’t understand. So, the Braves then looked at their starting pitching, which the Pirates are also unwilling to part with (and that I do understand). He also said many of the Pirate players want LaRoche and are pushing Littlefield to make a deal. He quoted Jack Wilson as saying that basically LaRoche is a game changing player.

So, I guess we will see what is going to happen, but apparently JS is still willing to trade LaRoche for the right price. I still say that the Angels will be willing to make a three way deal and possibly deal Joe Saunders. I honestly think part of their holdup is they want to make sure that Bartolo Colon is completely healthy. I read Friday, I believe, that the Angels’ owner is putting pressure on Bill Stoneman to do something. He has given him the freedom to spend whatever money it takes and so far Gary Matthews Jr. and Shea Hillenbrand have been the only pickups. This article also said (as has Peter Gammons) that the owner wants a big bat in the lineup. AKA LaRoche!

Would it not be sweet if the Braves could pull a three where Kotchman (whom the Pirates also covet) goes to Pittsburgh and Gonzales comes to Atlanta. The Braves send LaRoche and a prospect (Escobar?) and receive Saunders and Figgins or Erick Aybar. I know, Carroll, you don’t like Figgins but his speed and game are much more suited for the NL. Even if we got Aybar that would be great. A lot of people believe that he can play CF and play it well and that the kid is a superstar waiting to happen.

By Lew

January 7, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

RJIB-Dude, it looks like it is going to be hard enough to put together a trade with just the Pirates. I don’t think three way deals are either realistic or going to happen.

By berigan

January 7, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Robert(JITB) and others, want to read something really stupid??? http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/myweblog/2007/01/talkinglaroche.html That, and the previous post telling Jack Wilson to just shut up.

This Bucco guy is nuts! And who is this mystery scout??? Some drunk he met in a bar? I know I am tired, but can someone explain what they are talking about with the NLED??? Aren’t the braves in the very same division??? LaRoche a platoon player???? Idiots!!!

By Stinky

January 7, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

And then Lew threw his raspberry beret into the ring for a date with Betsy Hasselbeck. She accepted and they went to a day spa after shopping for sweaters. Betsy had to burst Lew’s bubble about Matt, but she did hook him up with her hairdresser.

By KC

January 7, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Robert: I would have to say that JS is willing to trade any player for the right price.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

It’s been a month since the LaRoche-Gonzalez stuff really got popping at the winter meetings (before the Braves traded for Rafael Soriano and pulled the LaRoche-for-Gonzalez offer from the table). And still LaRoche is apparently an obsession with plenty in Pittsburgh, including Pirates players.

In that same article that Dejan wrote in the Post-Gazette (and yes, he is the Pirates beat writer), he quoted shortstop Jack Wilson, who openly pleaded for GM Dave Littlefield to keep pursuing LaRoche:

“You can quote me on this,” Wilson said. “Adam LaRoche is a team-changing player.”

That, plus the fact they already let Giles go and could lose Andruw before the ‘08 season, is why the Braves are so reluctant (rightfully so) to trade LaRoche for anything less than two impact guys.

By KC

January 7, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

DOB: Would you agree that this Braves bullpen looks like one of the 3 or 4 best in the NL right now?

By berigan

January 7, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

oK, I am tired, the pirates are in the Central, aren’t they? Phils in the East, Braves in the east, Pirates in the central. Makes sense. I AM tired, haven’t slept since 2 am….zzzz….

By eware

January 7, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the recommendation on Waylon’s “Honky Tonk Heroes”. Out-freakin-standing.

Here’s my next problem…I’ve got $10 left of my iTunes gift cards, and I’m looking Townes Van Zandt’s way. Could you give me some guidance? From the little I’ve heard, he sounds fantastic.

Thanks, man.

By KC

January 7, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

berigan: Yeah, good question. I’m guessing NLED stands for National League Eastern Division.

I seriously doubt there is any team in Major League baseball that views LaRoche as a platoon player any more.

I don’t have time to go through all the box scores and figure his post-all-star-break stats against lefties, but I’ll bet anything that he hit much better against them than his season totals vs. lefties would indicate.

You cannot equitably judge anyone left-handed hitter’s ability to hit lefties, until he’s had ample opportunity to see them on a regular basis. As we all know that apparently our mysterious NLED scout doesn’t, is that LaRoche didn’t get that opportunity until well into the 06’ season.

LaRoche a platoon player?? Okay sure, whatever he says. But I’ve never seen so much trade interest and buzz around a platoon player in my life.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

KC: Perhaps, but that’s IF Boyer is healthy, and obviously Soriano (I think Soriano be fine, now that he says he’s past his initial early winter-ball struggles coming back from the concussion).

I really think they need another lefty, doesn’t have to be the best lefty, Gonzalez, but could be, say, Scott Schoeneweis, to make it a really balanced, potent ‘pen that would be among NL’s very best.

I don’t think you’d want to go into the season with McBride as your only lefty reliever, and I don’t think they will. What if he gets hurt again, like last spring? Can’t go with only one lefty in the bullpen.

Pickings appear to be slim from within the organization, but maybe they’ll find something unexpected, someone further along or better than we anticipated, from among the lefty prospects or retreads.

But I know they’d prefer to find another lefty, somewhere, somehow, between now and late in spring training. And I bet they will.

By KC

January 7, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Meant to say: “*what we all know that our mysterious NLED scout apparently doesn’t…”

By berigan

January 7, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

KC Good point about how few AB’s he even had against lefties for much of the season. According to Yahoo, he has only 180 TOTAL AB’s against lefties! It looks like he should be platooned though…never let him bat in the daytime! ;) http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7253/splits;_ylt=Anfg0yimQeC3Pc1EGbDKKVSFCLcF?year=career&type=Batting

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Eware, it’s hard to narrow down the remarkable Townes Van Zandt to $10 worth of Itunes. Just buy the “Best of Townes Van Zandt” and/or especially the stunning “Live at the Old Quarter” and you’ll quickly realize you want to buy up all you can of everything he put out.

But if you MUST choose 10 songs from Itunes, can’t go wrong with these: To Live Is to Fly, Pancho and Lefty, Lungs, Flyin’ Shoes, For The Sake of the Song, Our Mother the Mountain, Tower Song, Waiting Around to Die, Tecumseh Valley, If I Needed You.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Folks, just to avoid any apparent confusion: He IS talking about NL East and NL Central, etc, though NO ONE refers to the divisions that way. No one.

In casual conversation, you would never hear a scout or player or anyone else say, “In the NLED….” That’s absurd. They’d say, “in the East,” or “in the NL East,” or, “in the Central,” or “in the NL Central,” or “in our division,” etc. Not in the freakin NLCD or NLED. Gimme a break.

By MBATL

January 7, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

DOB, anyone, know anything about Dan Smith, 23-yr-old lefty who pitched 60 innings at AA last year? He’s actually shown pretty good stuff - whip consistently in the 1.25 range. Struck out 86 in 60 innings at Miss - wow! Maybe some control “issues” though.

Looks like they moved him to starting at Mississippi, though. I’m guessing he’s a year away (at least), but you never know. Might have the kind of stuff to fill some innings as a lefty out of the ‘pen.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 7, 2007 01:08 PM | Link to this

Well, that guy at the Bucco Blog has some sort of inside connections but he also has it out for LaRoche. He has pleaded many times for the Pirates to trade Duke or Gorzelany but he thinks that Casey Kotchman is a much better player than LaRoche. Now, where he gets that from I don’t know. And as far as his assertions that LaRoche is a platoon player, I think he is crazy. He was only platooned because Bobby has to have at least one platoon in the lineup. Seriously. Has there ever been a Braves team where a platoon was not instituted? I personally think LaRoche is a star in the making. If the Pirates don’t want him, fine. We’ll keep him and watch him, Frenchy, Andruw, and Chipper all hit .275 or better for 35+HRS each and 110+RBI each. Fine with me.

That jackass just has it out for LaRoche and has since day one.

By KC

January 7, 2007 01:13 PM | Link to this

Here’s how I would rank the top 5 bullpens in NL as it stands now:

1 – San Diego

2 – NYM

3 – Atlanta

4 – LAD

5 – Philadelphia

I think Atlanta’s pen has a chance to be the best in the NL this year. I say that for a couple of reasons: Besides the obvious upgrade with the addition of Soriano… I look at the way that the returning members of last year’s bullpen finished last season, as a sign (at least to some degree) of things to come.

Wickman: 1.04 ERA as a Brave.

Villarreal: 1.42 ERA in September (after doing a decent job as a fill-in starting in August).

Yates: 2.70 ERA in September as Braves’ setup man. Interesting fact about Yate’s season… He was called up on May 30th, and was brilliant 3 of the 4 months he was up. If not for his lousy month of August, he would have posted a 2.17 ERA for the season.

McBride: 1.91 ERA from July 16th on.

Paronto: 3.27 September ERA. Very consistent with his 3.18 season ERA… though he might be the odd man out if the Braves pursue another lefty.

The Braves also have some good candidates for the 7th slot in the bullpen, including: Blaine Boyer, Phil Stockman, Tanyon Sturtze, and Joey Divine.

Now, I don’t thing Wickman will post a 1.04 ERA next season. Nor do I think Villarreal, Yates, and McBride will do over a full season what they did toward the end of last season. But I do think that Yates and McBride had a coming out party (if that phrase can be used outside the context of sexual orientation) late last season… I really do. And Villarreal, late in the season, really seemed to regain the form that allowed him to post a 2.57 ERA over 98 innings with Arizona a couple years ago before requiring Tommy John surgery.

Many of the things I’ve mentioned are not apparent to casual observers; people that don’t really follow the Braves closely at all. Of course in fairness, I’m looking at these other teams as a casual observer, and they may be better than they appear for reasons that are not obvious to me. There could be something I’m missing, but I’m just going on what I know.

By JC FROM UT

January 7, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this

DOB: Agreed, the Braves need another left in the bullpen. There are two lefties unsigned who would probably sign minor league deals with invite to sprin training: Randy Choate and Brandon Claussen. I know its been a few years but both were top starting prospects with the Yankees. What do you think about one of these two guys?

By John Adcox

January 7, 2007 01:20 PM | Link to this

About Children of Men… I gotta go with hopeful, DOB. This film may be the ultimate optimist/pessimist test. A friend of mine saw it and absolutely did not like it. At all. His major problem was that the situation (why is humanity sterile?) is never explored, and we’re never told why mankind would live its last years fighting, when all the fighting seems to be quite literally for nothing.

I think the question of why humanity was acting the way it did WAS examined. In fact, it was what the entire film was about. The question, to me, isn’t why humanity would act that way if devoid of all hope—it’s why don’t we act that way NOW? What keeps us from giving in to our own worst instincts? And in the end, hope is the only answer.

If you look at the most war torn parts of the world—and I am talking about throughout history, not just these present days, the people most without hope are the ones most driven to the most brutal acts. In the Middle East, where jobs are all but nonexistent, and usually given to foreign “contractors,” and wealth is in the hands of the very few, we see suicide bombers, militias, general hatred. These people have no hope, no hope at all that the world will ever, ever get better, so all that is left is to lash out with all the rage that burns inside them, even if (or even because) it costs them their own lives. It’s not about causes or dogma, it’s about the agony of hunger and the rage of having seen your parents and family dog slaughtered by “them” when you were a child. It is mindless and wild. Look at Africa. Ireland in the days of the potato famine. France before the Revolution. The most impoverished neighborhoods in the United States, the richest nation on earth, where we’ve had to change the way we count those in poverty and stop using the word hunger just so we can publish reports and sleep at night.

The one, one single thing that helps us rise above our most base instincts and consider ideals like common good is this: hope. Hope that we can build a better world, hope that our children will somehow have a better life than we do. Hope that something we do, somehow, matters.

But when there is literally no future at all, all that matters is right now. Me. Mine. Beware the “others” who want to come and take it away. Don’t worry about the environment; the world’s about to end anyway.

What’s the one thing that might change it? Hope. Look at the one time in the film people stop fighting, if only for a moment. It’s when they see, at least fleetingly, a glint of hope. Somehow, that hint, that desperate hope, if enough to make them want to be more than they are.

To me, the film is amazing because it is so utterly immersive. There was no clumsy exposition that would have taken us out of the story: “as you know, Captain, the virus, which we engineered through own shortsightedness, which rendered humanity sterile…” We don’t need it. We get enough to accept (or not) but from the newspaper clippings, etc. that litter the sets. We never understand why Superman can fly, or that guy in the X-Men can shoot lasers from his eyes with seemingly limitless light and “push,” but no heat or obvious energy source. We just take it as the reality we’re watching.

The question of why the wars rage is unexamined because it never really matters. What matters is what we have within us that might someday make us stop. I was left with this almost desperate need to find and share hope. If it comes in the form of a baby’s tears (the movie was released Christmas day) then that child must be protected and cherished.

John Who also hopes we find another lefty for the ‘pen, and who would be even happier if we landed Baldelli after all. Tampa Bay needs pitching, and their window opens next year with the roster they have. If I were them, I’d take Davies, Harrison, and any other arms they can pry away from us… they need sheer numbers if they can’t get guarantees. Some of them are gonna stick. The more they have the better their odds.

By John Adcox

January 7, 2007 01:38 PM | Link to this

Ah, jeez. Sorry about the long posts, folks. No wonder I am behind on my deadlines. I promise to edit myself in the future.

By KC

January 7, 2007 01:47 PM | Link to this

I also agree that we need another lefty. I didn’t feel initially, because besides McBride, guys like Soriano and Paronto have shown the ability to get lefties out almost as well as right-handed hitters. So I figured it would simply be a luxury to have another lefty. However, DOB brings up an excellent point… if we don’t have another lefty, we are going to wear out McBride. Even if we have righties who can get left-handed hitters out… BC tends to play it by the book on lefty/righty matchup stuff, so the reality is that we’re still going to overuse McBride if he’s the only southpaw.

By The Grinch

January 7, 2007 02:33 PM | Link to this

Morning, all. That post this morning was cute, stinky. My relationship with Mrs. Hasselbeck would probably be different than your relationship with your mom, though. Actually, maybe it wouldn’t :-)

Caroll, I say Parcells got outcoached because Seattle lost their top three conerbacks heading into this game. They had to play a rookie at RCB and a guy they signed a week earlier off the street as nickelback. Everyone in the country knew this, and that all the Cowboys really needed to do was employ 4 and 5 wideouts most of the time and heave it, and they should have won by a couple of touchdowns. Instead, he ran it up the middle or threw dinky slant patterns to triple-covered Terell over the middle (where he could be easily covered by linebackers and safetys, which they weren’t short of). Even Madden was disturbed and confused early on, then finally dropped it before just openly being blasphemous. Yes, they almost won anyway, but that’s because they’re a much better team (despite Romo’s collapse). Parcells is a hall of fame coach, and he may still have some gas in the tank, but his game plan last night wasn’t real bright IMO.

As for Homey the Clown, when he’s in the Pro Bowl behind a decent line throwing to recievers who don’t suck, he looks as good or better than almost anyone who’s ever stood behind center. Funny how that works. If Vick ever gets traded to a decent team, I’m gonna laugh at everyone who thought he was the problem when he becomes the totally unstoppable force he ought to be here. If we get Norm Chow or Cam Cameron in here coaching, you’ll see what I mean.

By Kirby P

January 7, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

The Braves offseason additions include “Woody” Woodard (ha ha ha ha ha), “Northwoods League” Kelly Johnson, “Post Guerrero concussion syndrome” Soriano (Hey KC, doesn’t is make you and all the other jabronis wonder why Genius John got Soriano so cheap —— for Horacio Ramirez????!!!! … seems to me Soriano is damaged goods), “Strikeout” Sturtze, “Cy” Hampton, “Rocket” Willie Harris, “Solar Eclispe” Lunar, and may I saw “Father Time” Bob Wickman is ONE year older and 12 and a half pounds FATTER!!!. These superstar upgrades cost Time Warner some major coin. World Series here we come. Once again the masses will flock to Turner field because of the “entertainment” value… you know, the Turner Dogs’, Chop House, the family picnic area, etc., etc. etc. No one cares that our beloved Braves will finish in the lower half of the standings. Oops… KC and the other toots are going to tell me how much IMPROVED the Braves are with Genius John’s stellar offseason upgrades. If you Soylent Green clones don’t standup and protest your concerns (should I get out the crayons, don’t go to the games), Time Warner (and/or Liberty “Mutual”) will continue to turn this team into another Atlanta Hawks. None of you seem to care about Time Warner choosing not to compete. Your hopes and dreams spring eternal… yes Joey, the Braves are going to win the World Series next year… I’m just speaking the truth… and sometimes the truth hurts…

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 03:14 PM | Link to this

MBATL, Dan Smith is exactly the kind of guy I’m talking about who could become a candidate in spring training. If they still needed a lefty and believed he could help them now, in the bullpen, they’d do it.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 03:17 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Kirby, and sometimes the truth is just incoherent.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 7, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! grinch, is norm chow related to famous chinese actor chow yun-fat? and if so will he acquire some fat linemen to block for michael (call me mike) vick? and what is in the trailer at the port of miami and who says profiling doesn’t work? and now, stinky’s intrigue with the older woman … stinky has matters to take care of at home from what this journalist has read (christmas eve and christmas day blogs tell the sordid story better than this journalist)- stinky has no time to worry about grinch’s woman. now, baseball … another left handed reliever may not be possible - the solution is to bring back remlinger for use as only bobby would use him (wink, wink). now, music … journalist looked at the record store for a cd from townes van hiatt and could find nothing. country or rap?

By MBATL

January 7, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

Kirby, “Northwoods League” Kelly Johnson? KJ was a 1st round draft pick in 2000 (38th overall) and except for injuries has progressed just as expected.

Being the more successful franchise, we didn’t have a chance to grab the Met’s 1st round pick (16th overall) that year… Billy Traber (huh?).

Lunar is just another mitt for the minor league teams; we gave up Max Ramirez, a quality AA catcher, to get Wickman - who I think will be just fine, thanks.

From what I read on the Mets’ blogs, Woodward is a solid guy and will be missed (battled injuries last year), though in Newhan the Mets did pick up a nice utility OF to replace him.

Now, I’m not a pollyanna Braves fan (though I’m a huge fan) - I’m not predicting that we’re a WS team, or even that we’ve made up the 18 games we lost to the Mets last year. I think we’re improved, though - and I’m not so sure the Mets are as good as last year.

DOB, I guess that’s all I was saying about D Smith… sure he’ll get a good look in ST.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 03:34 PM | Link to this

Adcox, strong analysis of the movie. I agree that it would’ve been cumbersome and unnecessary to go into an explanation for why the world’s human popular had gone sterile, better to use the hints they offer and your imagination (i know, what a concept…)

It’s not a movie for everyone, obviously. But I think most of those who’ll like it, will know going in whether it’s their cup of tea. Or they should, at least. Perhaps the comparison to “Blade Runner” that some critic made is slightly misleading, in that it’s not early as commercially viable, in my opinion, as Blade Runner. And I’m glad it’s not. It doesn’t come across as some fantasy world, to me, but rather a bit of a warning, or a feeling that this is some worst-case scenario that could actually occur, at least parts of it.

By KC

January 7, 2007 03:38 PM | Link to this

Kirby: Weren’t you just posting in here the other day under the name “Steve C”??

Striking similarities.

By KC

January 7, 2007 03:43 PM | Link to this

MBATL: Dude… you’re not actually responding to this Kirby guy???? Well, I guess I did the same thing the other day… when he was posting under the name “Steve C”, so I guess I don’t have any room to talk. That guy is the poster child for why 1st cousins shouldn’t marry.

By Robert

January 7, 2007 03:49 PM | Link to this

DOB - I think LaRoche is a decent enough player - in my opinion he will be a guy who will be a good secondary run producer who will hit with decent power tho low-ish average who might well make an AS game or two before he is done. Think Eric Karros as a good potential career comp

That said, I would NOT put too much value on the assessment of anyone in the Pirates organization. Low budget team that they are, their consistantly abysmal record is as much attributable to HORRIBLE scouting and talent assessment as it is to lack of funds

To wit, these guys thought Oliver Perez was a stud starter and thought Brad Eldred was a big time hitting prospect

Well, either they thought that, or they thought Pirates fans were dumb as rocks and would fall for that shuck and jive, but that’s another story

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 03:49 PM | Link to this

jimmy, it’s both. country-rap. you know, like big & rich.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

or was that Cowboy Troy? I get all those great new artists confused

(i feel obligated to say I’m kidding, just in the outside chance that someone might be happening upon the blog for the first time and see that line)

By Robert

January 7, 2007 03:54 PM | Link to this

“And, then, weeks later, I see the Grinch and Matt Hasselbeck’s Mom in a kitchen, in bathrobes”

Naaaaasty visual

And Kentavo, I dont think I’d have told - (about dreaming about Lemke)

Now, suddenly I am having thoughts/fantasies involving myself, Momma Haselback, stinky’s mom, a swimming pool full of whipped cream and jello, and a litterbox full of cocaine

By MBATL

January 7, 2007 04:10 PM | Link to this

Betsy Hasselbeck with topless photos (not really, but photos, anyway). I don’t know, guys, trying to do my part for my blogger brothers.

By Ron Roberts

January 7, 2007 04:39 PM | Link to this

Referring to Michael Vick as Homey The Clown is insulting, Carrol. And you’re wrong about the guy, as it is.

The one game the guy had a good O-line and talented recievers, he was phenominal. Pure and simple. If only Atlanta could put together a good line and dependable hands at WR to go with TE Alge Crumpler.

He’d clown all the nay-sayers.

Back to baseball…

I’d go into spring training and the regular season with this team as-is, even if it meant we only had one lefty in the bullpen right now. I don’t think we need to trade Adam LaRoche to fill that void, either. Matter of fact, I think it’d be stupid to do it, unless we were getting multiple components (read: more than one player ready to play MLB ball now). But I hate the idea of our offense taking a hit to improve a portion of our bullpen. And yeah, I think losing LaRoche changes the Braves’ lineup immensely. One of the reason I think the Braves were so successful scoring runs last year was the lineup’s depth. Most ML lineups don’t have threats beyond the 5th or 6th spot… with Renteria, C.Jones, A.Jones, Francoeur, McCann, LaRoche to go with whomever bats leadoff (I’d lke to see Matt Diaz get a shot at LF everyday, personally) and Kelly Johnson at 2B (if that’s to be), I think we’re as good, if not better, offensively, in 2007.

If McBride is back and as effective as before, then getting another serviceable lefty for the bullpen can and should be done without sacrificing a team strength, or we’re just weakening a strength to strengthen a (percieved) piece of a weakness.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 05:32 PM | Link to this

Ron, agreed on both counts _ the need for a lefty, but without sacrificing a significant piece of the offense, and that nickname is … well, at best, it’s not at all clever.

By The Grinch

January 7, 2007 05:49 PM | Link to this

Back from the gym. Thanks for the pix, MBATL. Now I just got to figure out a way to photoshop Matt out of them.

Journalist Jimmy, I’m not sure if they’re related, but that would be pretty cool. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Offensive Coordinator.

Robert, my nickname is more related to my personality than my looks. That fantasy of yours is definitely different, though. I see I’m not the only one who “experimented” with mind-altering substances in my intemperate youth. :-)

DOB, just noticed an earlier post asking about that player from Duke. I can honestly say I haven’t watched a single college BB game yet this season; I’ll check him out when I do though. Finally talked my mom into loaning me that Cohen DVD; I’ll watch it tonight or tommorrow and tell you what I think.

By MBATL

January 7, 2007 05:50 PM | Link to this

Ron R, Gonzalez is more than a lefty out of the pen for next year … he’s a future closer, which right now we don’t have (unless Devine comes around). And he might very well take the job from Wickman in ‘07.

But, we should get more for Adam. If we can get Maholm or Gorzelanny, we can maybe make a deal to get Baldelli, to fill our future need at CF. (If we got Gorzelanny, I’d trade James to get Baldelli if necessary - it’s effectively trading Laroche and James (and maybe Escobar) for Gonzalez, Baldelli and Gorzelanny - okay!).

I can’t believe the Pirates would balk at giving up Gonzo and Duffy - kinda glad they did, because it may be too little for Laroche. I think JS does “hold the cards” on this deal, and Littlefield seems under pressure from media and even players to make a deal - so maybe we can get what we need out of them.

All that said, if we DO trade Adam, Thorman will probably provide 80% of his offense; and Saltalamacchia can be developed at 1B if needed. If in exchange for that we can get a young, dominant closer and the pieces to get a CF, we should do it.

IF we dont’ do the deal, ‘07 looks good but still some big holes to fill in ‘08.

By Robert

January 7, 2007 06:31 PM | Link to this

““You can quote me on this,” Wilson said. “Adam LaRoche is a team-changing player.””

Um - so was Reitsma

By eware

January 7, 2007 06:56 PM | Link to this

Hey, DOB, I stopped by Ella Guru today and said hi to Don. He had some really nice things to say about you. Just wanted to let you know.

Plus, I got N. Young’s “Ragged Glory” - pretty awesome.

By Greg in TN

January 7, 2007 07:21 PM | Link to this

Hey everyone…

After today, 38 more days until pitchers and catchers report for spring training.

I’d love to get another southpaw for the bullpen, and I would really prefer at this point to get someone like Schoeneweis or Villone although I don’t know if our price would be right for either.

I just saw Mark Bradley and Terence Moore’s HOF ballot. I can’t say that I’m shocked that neither listed Murph on their ballots. I’m mildly surprised that Bradley put Andre Dawson and Jim Rice on his ballot and didn’t give any love Dale’s way, but hey, it’s his ballot and his opinion. I’m also surprised that Moore has Concepcion on his ballot. Solid defensive shortstop for sure, but HOF? IMO, that’s a bit of a reach.

I’ll throw this out and I welcome others to do the same. Here’s how I would vote for the HOF if I had one:

Dale Murphy, 2 time NL MVP, 7 time all star, 5 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Sluggers, led the NL in homers, RBIs and slugging twice.

Don Mattingly, ‘85 AL MVP, 6 time all star, 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, AL batting champion in ‘84.

Andre Dawson, ‘77 ROY, ‘87 NL MVP, 8 time all star, 8 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Sluggers, led NL in homers and RBIs in ‘87.

Tony Gwynn, 15 time all star, 8 time NL batting champion, 5 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Sluggers, led NL 7 times in hits.

Cal Ripken, ‘82 ROY, 2 time AL MVP, 19 time all star, 2 Gold Gloves, 8 Silver Sluggers.

Lee Smith, 3 time Rolaids Relief award winner, led league in saves 4 times and is second all time, 7 time all star.

By journalist jimmy smith

January 7, 2007 07:25 PM | Link to this

journalist jimmy smith from the braves blog severe weather center … this journalist advises all bloggers in the metro atlanta area to take cover if threatened by the strong storms now passing through the city. be advised that this blog will resume when the storm passes. journalist out.

By Greg in TN

January 7, 2007 07:45 PM | Link to this

MBATL, I saw that too and I also found it interesting. It wasn’t clear on the link as to whether that was actually the verbiage that’s on the ballot or not.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 7, 2007 07:49 PM | Link to this

I think the only way we trade LaRoche is if we get multiple components as well. I agree with you, Ron Roberts. Despite being under extreme pressure I’m not so convinced Littlefield will make a deal. It seems to me that Gorzelany is the least “talented” of the Pirate starters and that could give some hope the Pirates would deal him. But, like DOB has pointed out to me before (and correctly so) most teams are quite reluctant to give up lefty starters. Also, the Bucco Blog guy is a jackass if he thinks LaRoche is a platoon player. All you have to do is look at the fact that he tore it up after he was no longer being platooned. The Pirates would be damn lucky to have LaRoche and he would give their offense some much needed pop. I don’t want to see him go and I have concluded that he shouldn’t unless the Braves get two of the three components they need (leadoff hitter, lefty reliever, and starting pitching). And if…IF the Pirates do give up Gorzelany, Maholm, or Duke the next call JS should make is to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. But, of course, this is probably pure fantasy and no more deals will be made. Littlefied is stubborn and has passed on deals before that would have strengthened the team. I just can’t figure out why people can’t realize to get something you have to give something. The Pirates have starting pitching depth in their minor league system not to mention the ability to sign another starter if they were to give one up. Fact is JS holds all the cards here and really can’t go wrong. If LaRoche stays, his bat makes the offense that much more potent and JS can always sign a lefty off the scrap heap if someone from the system doesn’t emerge. If LaRoche is traded, JS would have filled two of if not all three needs the team currently has.

I do believe that Kelly Johnson can play 2B but I would feel more comfortable with a more experienced player platooning with him at the position so he could ease into it. Of course now the only possibility left is Ronnie Belliard and his offense is lacking at best.

By berigan

January 7, 2007 08:01 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN, if you have Murphy as a HOF’er, how can you not have Jim Rice? Murphy’s career BA, .265. Jim Rice, .298. Murphy had 1266 RBI, Rice 1451 RBI’s. Interestingly, both had their careers peter out way too soon, Rice done at 36, Murph at 37…..

By Greg in TN

January 7, 2007 08:28 PM | Link to this

Hi berigan,

Thanks for pointing that out. I looked at everyone else’s stats that were eligible and don’t know how I missed looking at Rice’s. He led the AL in homers three times and IMO his defense was underrated (I know he split a lot of time between OF and DH, but his defensive numbers when he was in the field were solid. .980 career fielding percentage, a lot of assists, but playing LF at Fenway does have its advantages!). He would make my ballot also.

By Jared

January 7, 2007 08:35 PM | Link to this

I read that story in the Post-Gazette about the Pirates still holding out hope for LaRoche and Wilson basically saying “go get him.” Interesting.

I think the Braves should do it. I really like LaRoche, was probably the only here who did back in mid-May when he was hitting .221 and made that horrible error while everyone on the Braves’ blogs out there was screaming through their words: “trade LaRoche for a bag of balls.”

But Gonzalez has the chance to take the bullpen from something good to something really special. Maybe I’m just paranoid from watching the Braves’ bullpen meltdown on almost a daily basis the past two years, but I don’t know if I trust Soriano’s health. If he is healthy, great, then I trust him and I certainly trust Bob Wickman. I just don’t want to be put into a sitution where the bullpen in blowing 7th and 8th inning leads while Soriano sits on the DL and Mets’ fans are here trolling and we’re saying “we’ll get you next year when our bullpen is not hurt.”

If the Braves are serious about their faith in Scott Thorman, trade LaRoche for Gonzalez and whatever else you can pry from the Pirates and be happy.

Also, let me make it clear that I will also be happy with LaRoche too. I won’t lose any sleep if he is with the Braves in 2007. He is a great player.

By ellaguru

January 7, 2007 08:41 PM | Link to this

Well, I have tried to read all the posts but O’Brien is some kind of baseball/music/TV/film/literature GOD—who knew?

I just want to chime in briefly to thank David for all the shout-outs to my shop, Ella Guru CDs. He’s been a devoted customer for a long time and God knows record stores need all the help they can get these days. I’ve taught him everything he knows about music—he’ll tell you.

Right, Dave?

Hey, a guy came in and bought a CD after reading your blog. Do you frriggin’ rule or what?

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 09:04 PM | Link to this

I’m going to assume that’s actually you, Don. Anyway, can’t believe you haven’t been here at the blog before. We’ve got quite a crowd of baseball and music lovers here. And some literature experts, though I’m certainly not one of them. Far, far from it.

I can tell you a little about Hunter Thompson and Charles Bukowski, but my knowledge of real literature absolutely pales next to the true expertise of a bunch of the Braves/Man in Black blog denizens. Seriously, we’ve got some fervent readers here. I can’t hang with that crowd when it comes to that pursuit.

Glad eware bought a CD from you. Maybe we can help you keep that store of yours open, though we CD purchasers seem to be swimming against the tide more and more, huh?

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 09:12 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN, what do you need to know about the Hall ballot (I’m assuming that’s the ballot you were talking about in your e-mail to MBATL). I’ve got my (unused) ballot sitting here on my desk, can tell you what it says.

By Ron

January 7, 2007 09:17 PM | Link to this

Did yall hear that Bobby Petrino will be the Coach of the Atlanta Falcons.

By Greg in TN

January 7, 2007 09:22 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB. The link to Mark Bradley and Terence Moore’s ballot has a notation that voting is based on a player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

Is that the wording that appears on the ballot?

By MBATL

January 7, 2007 09:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, actually, I noticed that my post “quoting” what AJC said about the HOF criteria seems to have been erased. Sure wasn’t trying to cause any problems, but why is it no longer on the blog? Greg in TN did not send me an Email, he responded to my post.

By The Grinch

January 7, 2007 09:27 PM | Link to this

Unbelievable. I just read the “latest news” here about the Falcons, which has Blank telling everyone to “be patient, there is no timetable,” then switch over to ESPN.com and find out Bobby Petrino from some college outside the SEC is gonna be our new coach. How do they know this before our own newspaper does?

By journalsit jimmy smith

January 7, 2007 09:27 PM | Link to this

flash: the falcons have a new coach. it is not chow yun-fat as first suggested by grinch but bobby petrino from louisville. no word yet on what michael vick thinks of this new development.

By Carroll

January 7, 2007 09:29 PM | Link to this

So let me get this straight….All the offensive linemen, all of the receivers, all of the coaches….they were all to blame, but the great Vick was without fault. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

And Grinch, of course Vick looks good in the pro bowl game throwing to the greatest receivers in the game, and running around against a defense that isn’t really trying. Hell I remember one year when Bobby Hebert looked like Joe Montana in the Pro Bowl.

And DOB, thanks for the compliment on my nickname for Vick. I thought it was almost as clever as your referring to Disney as “the evil empire”….SO original!

By The Grinch

January 7, 2007 09:30 PM | Link to this

Not only is this a non SEC school, but the team mascot is an herbivore. Not good, Hank. At least they were able to beat the mighty Wake Forrest in their bowl game. We just gave a youg, unproven but idealistic coach a chance, and look what happened? I hope this works.

By TennesseePaul

January 7, 2007 09:37 PM | Link to this

Hank: Now, Bobby you can’t get on base unless you swing at the ball.

Bobby: The pitcher could walk me couldn’t he?

Hank: (shaking his head) Don’t play “lawyer ball” son. Now hit the next one out of the park.

By Ron

January 7, 2007 09:38 PM | Link to this

I cant believe that bucco blog and that scout thinks that LaRoche is similar to Sean Casey. The scout said that LaRoche will have more homeruns and better defense. Yeah LaRoche will have about 20 more homeruns and play way better defense that Casey. So how the hell is LaRoche similar to Casey. The Braves should make an offer to the Pirates and if they do not accept it say the hell with them, I am so tired of hearing about this deal, the Pirates are not going to give JS everything that he wants, so JS should try to get another Lefty for the Pen, and keep LaRoche. I looked at the Braves top prospects the other day, and they have alot of good talent, but not anybody serious enough to be the everyday outfielder, just yet at least. That is their only real weakness.

By Hammy the Brave

January 7, 2007 09:46 PM | Link to this

Dave,

I agree with you the Braves should get a veteran lefty for the bullpen, like Scott Schonweiss(?)

Don’t you also think they need a veteran righty and lefty off the bench, with their mostly youthful lineup? Can’t they sign Phil Nevin and Dmitri Young to minor league contracts, and invites to ST? Nobody seems interested in them.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 09:53 PM | Link to this

Ron, Casey’s had a solid career, and that’s not an insult for LaRoche to be compared to him, long as it’s noted that LaRoche has significantly more power. “The Mayor” has a .302 career average and during a six-year span (1999-2004) hit 40 or more doubles three times and 20 or more homers three times. He’s slowed by injuries and also probably age the past two years.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

January 7, 2007 09:53 PM | Link to this

Carroll, Vick does share in some of the blame concerning the team’s woes. However, you can’t lay it all or even most of it at his feet. Tell me this. Would you want any of those receivers excpet Crumpler on your team? What about that defense? Would you start a team and have the Falcons defense as your defense. Just be fair in your assessments of the team and honest about why you don’t like Vick. Look at the number of dropped passes the Falcons have. What?! Is Vick supposed to catch the freakin ball too. C’mon. I am not giving Vick a pass at all in the blame of this team going 7-9. But, if Vick had the receiving corp of the Panthers or Cowboys or Colts he would look like a different QB. Not to mention that while I like Jim Mora I just don’t think the offense that was in place was suitable to Vick’s talents. And, yes, say I’m making excuses. I’m not making them and your wrong in saying that I am. A quarterback is only as good as his offenseive line and receivers. Look at Peyton Manning last year in the playoffs. The offensive line blocked horribly and what happened? Yeah, that is right. Manning looked like a high school quarterback. Now, we all know (or at least should) that Manning is the best QB in the NFL today but if he doesn’t get blocking and his receivers don’t catch passes then he is just another guy.

But, I know. Vick is horrible and “his type” of quarterback will never succeed in the NFL.

By BigBlogInvestigator_BBI

January 7, 2007 09:53 PM | Link to this

Kirby J, Steve C, and Ron Roberts just might be one in the same. I mean compare each’s writing style; same willy nilly use of italics, quotation marks, parenthesis, bold text, capital text, bad punctuation, sentence fragmentation, poor or no command of the English language, and incoherent, mindless ramblings about nothing—yep, same dude!…Go back and check their comments for yourself…and Ron Roberts__”Man Up”!!!…

By Glass Half Full

January 7, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Bobby Petrino news Falcons coach.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

MBATL, no, no, you’r enot causing problems at all. I was just trying to figure out if I could straighten out something about wording on the ballot or whatever. That’s all….

Carroll, you of course missed the entire point on the nicknames, I see. Do you not see where calling Vick “Homey the Clown” might be viewed by some people as insulting and have nothing to do with his playing ability? I think we’ve shown we’re not exactly politically correct at all times on the ‘ol blog here, but some things just seem a bit, i don’t know, beneath us.

Evil Empire wasn’t really original or clever, which is why I stopped using it. I couldn’t think of anything better for a long time, is all. But again, I guess you don’t see where that nickname is taking a shot at a huge, incredibly lucrative entertainment empire that some view as a bit sinister in its homogenized, fun-fun-fun, smile-smile-smile, spend-spend-spend culture? Would someone be personally offended by that nickname?

By Ron

January 7, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, you think that Campbell could be the Future, 2nd or 3rd baseman of the Future. And do you think that the Braves might move Salty to Leftfield, the Braves dont have alot of prospects that are close to the Majors yet. And we might have a hole in CF, and LF(depends on how well Diaz and Langerhans plays). And who knows about Blanco, and Brandon Jones, they might be the answer or may not be the answer. One more question for you DOB, what do you think about Van Pope? You think he might be a starter for the Braves in the Future.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

And nevermind, by the way. Call him anything you want. Just curious, though, why not just “Clown” or, oh, I don’t know, “Bozo the Clown.” Why’d you settle on that other clown? That’s all. It’s cool. You’re certainly within your rights to call him what you will. Peace.

By Bruce

January 7, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Here is the link to the Chris Reitsma introduction interview video on Mariners MLB site… no one seemed to respond with their impressions of the interview after my Jan 6 post 12:39pm mentioned it… not taking it personal, but would like to hear if impressions improve or change after watching it. Thanks! Bruce

By TheSouthernJackAss

January 7, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

At least it wasn’t “AS$CLOWN”!!!…

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Ron, with the exception of Salty, and a very brief look at Brandon Jones, you’re asking me about players I haven’t seen yet, even in spring training. These other guys haven’t even been in big league spring training.

Obviously if they’re ranked among the Braves’ top prospects, all have legit shots at playing for the major league team in the future. But until I get to see a guy, like we did with Salty last spring, I don’t like to start projecting where they’re going to be and how they all compare with each other. It’s so much speculation. I at least like to wait until I start hearing what is thought of them by the manager, the GM, other players, because that’s when you start to get a better idea how soon a guy might arrive and how legit he is, what he still has to work on.

Guys like Escobar, Prado, Andrus, Harrison, the Hawaiian dude Ka’aihue… these are guys whose names have come up, some freqently, others in passing, in the past year, as far as guys who could be impact players, or guys who could be here soon, or guys who still have a lot of work but look very promising to take over at prominent positions, etc.

I’m sure some of those you listed will start being discussed more this spring by team officials and other folks at the major league level, and some will get to play in some major league spring games, etc.

For instance, sure Van Pope might be a lineup regular some day. But so far, he hasn’t played above A-ball. I’ll reserve judgment on his major league future until I see more and hear more about him and see what he does at more advanced levels.

By David O'Brien

January 7, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN, the one sentence on voting on the ballot reads: “Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”

By The Grinch

January 7, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

Caroll, Vick isn’t the only QB who plays in the Pro Bowl. And every year he’s been there so far the only one who’s looked more effective has been Peyton Manning. No, Vick isn’t as good as Manning. No, Vick isn’t without fault. He has MANY faults. He also has the potential to be one of the most electrifying players ever, with the proper coaching staff. Which leads to your other comment; the offensive line (while decent at run-blocking in the middle of the field due to cut-blocking tactics) is known throughout the league at being one of the worst units in the NFL at pass blocking or even run blocking in the red zone ‘cause they’re way too small. While Mora wasn’t a bad coach, Greg Knapp (the offensive coordinator) was one of the worst in the history of the game. Ask the 49rs, where he came from. See how many job offers he gets now. I’d be surprised if he gets a college job after how badly he was exposed here. Watch and see if our offense isn’t at least 20% better next year. Now, whether the TEAM is succesful depends on who gets hired as the new DC…

By MBATL

January 7, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

Bruce, what do you want? Reitsma is a decent human being, a nice guy from all I’ve heard, and has great stuff, if he can stay healthy and learn to use it. He didn’t work out here, and most people on this site are good with that. He took some jabs because he had a bad year, but that comes with making a few million dollars.

The video (I skipped through it, so maybe I missed something) shows just that. It’s a classic “new player/new organization” press conference. Is there some secret message in there that I’m missing?

By Jared

January 7, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

Ron, I agree. I’m tired of the rumors. The Braves or the Pirates need to make thier final offer and either accept and make the trade or not and never speak of it again.

By TLJ

January 7, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

Bobby Petrino new Falcon Coach, I didn’t see that coming.

I agree with an earlier Blog regarding LaRoche, JS should tell Pittsburg what it will take to get LaRoche (Gonzalez and Maholm). If that is unacceptable tell the pirates to stop calling. We will have a very good team with LaRoche playing first and pick up a left handed relief pitcher during spring training. I don’t think this story will ever go away.

By The Grinch

January 7, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

Bradleys got a mighty positive article about Petrino up; made me feel a good bit better. A guy who knows what he’s doing but an a-hole. Exactly the opposite of Mora. Now, defense…

By MBATL

January 7, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

Hey, I’m sure Belichick, Fisher, Parcells, Holmgren, Reid, Shanahan and company are shaking in their cleats.

God, not to mention Coughlin, Lovie, Marvin.

I have nothing against uh… Petrino. Just seems like we made an awful quick decision, doesn’t it?

By The Grinch

January 8, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this

MBATL, the more I read, the more I like this decision. Remember, Blank passed on getting T.O. and Randy Moss (both wanted to play here) because he insists on having everyone related to the team big on integrity. Petrino apparently has NO integrity (he’s running out at the end of the 1st year of a 10 year deal with Louisville, right after telling everyone how much he was looking forward to being their coach forever), only X and O knowledge, which means Blank’s putting his personal feelings aside for the possibillity of winning. I like it. G’night, all. Early morning awaits…

By TennesseePaul

January 8, 2007 12:15 AM | Link to this

LaRoche’s value will really be high come mid-summer. I think holding out till then would be genious. By then we get the benefit of seeing if Salty can rebound and transition to first and how Thorman is progressing. LaRoche on the other hand has a chance to build on his street cred. He’d be attractive to any team since he would be a year and a half from FA at the dead line, so he wouldn’t just be a half season rental. Maybe JS is just gauging interest in the guy so he can have a plan at mid-season. Though, a mid season trade would rule out Pittsburgh. They aren’t going to be in it by the All-Star break and so would not be in a desperate mode looking to deal like crazy. (Unless they pull together a three team trade)

Whatever the case, I’m glad LaRoche turned it all around and I hope he can build on it this year. Didn’t expect this from him. Got some family who believe LaRoche is a modern Wally Joyner… meaning last season was his best season. I’m hoping otherwise. Or at least, I hope the return to earth happens right after the trading dead line when we’ve procured a King’s Ransom for him.

Now… Let’s gets some baseball going. Just a few weeks more until the Home Opener of the Dirtbags.

GO BRAVES!!

By DAP

January 8, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this

bruce

i watched the video the other day when you posted it. reitsma seems like a really nice guy. to bad nice guy doesnt equal good pitcher.

its to bad he got hurt last year, because times when he did well he looked pretty good. i hope he can do great in seattle.

it was nice to hear an explanation of his injury. last year when he announced after a month of sucking that he had numbness in his hand for awhile, i really just wanted to slap him. i think he really did the whole team a disservice by continuing to play. he helped us lose a few games we could have really used last year.

i call it dan kolb sydrome, when our relievers start screwing up. reitsma had a bad case of it last year. i kept imagining after blown saves last year that reitsma would pull off his face and it would just be a mask and dan kolb was pitching the whole time.

anyways, i hope he recovers in seattle and has a great career.

By DAP

January 8, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this

bruce

i watched the video the other day when you posted it. reitsma seems like a really nice guy. to bad nice guy doesnt equal good pitcher.

its to bad he got hurt last year, because times when he did well he looked pretty good. i hope he can do great in seattle.

it was nice to hear an explanation of his injury. last year when he announced after a month of sucking that he had numbness in his hand for awhile, i really just wanted to slap him. i think he really did the whole team a disservice by continuing to play. he helped us lose a few games we could have really used last year.

i call it dan kolb sydrome, when our relievers start screwing up. reitsma had a bad case of it last year. i kept imagining after blown saves last year that reitsma would pull off his face and it would just be a mask and dan kolb was pitching the whole time.

anyways, i hope he recovers in seattle and has a great career.

By Richard Cory

January 8, 2007 08:07 AM | Link to this

Grinch Good observations on the Falcons. However there are some issues I’m still not 100% sold on. Some say the offensive line can’t pass block for Vick because he is all over the place, never staying in the pocket. Some say, there is no pocket to stay in. Some say they lead the NFL in rushing consistently, because of talented running backs, some say, because of talented run blocking offensive line[in an effective, even if controversial system]. Some say Vick’s the greatest talent at QB ever, others say only a running back out of position. I just hope Petrino has some answers. He is a good college coach. I just suspect he will be like so many[Spurrier, Saban, etc. who will soon be wishing they were back. Oh, by the way, congrats in order for the Dawgs. Once again they wouldn’t quit. They are the most appropriately named team ever. Bulldogs. Never quit. Stubborn. My goodness, what heart. Also, Big East 5-0 in the bowls. I know we didn’t beat the ‘big boys’ of SEC & Big-10, but we kicked the ACC pretty good and are on our way up. Go Bulls!!

By KC

January 8, 2007 08:24 AM | Link to this

Come on guys… there must be a Falcons blog where all this can be discussed. I’ve never been a football fan. I’ve tried, but just can’t get into it. I have no problem with football except that during football season, you can’t get away from it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve turned on ESPN News or Sportscenter looking for a Braves or NBA highlight… but it’s completely choked out by football. You turn on sports radio, and it’s all about football, football, football. FOOTBALL SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

By Thrillhouse44

January 8, 2007 08:33 AM | Link to this

DOB, Yes, I thought Invincible was that good. There’s a certain amount of cheese you have to put up with, but it was still a really good movie.

By David O'Brien

January 8, 2007 08:50 AM | Link to this

KC, no biggie on the Falcons discussion. I mean, this is an obviously exceptional day, what with the quick hiring of a new coach. Not like there’s a whole lot of new Braves rumors and discussion to kick around, though we’ll certainly try. I’ll get up a new blog later today.

By RyanSlade

January 8, 2007 09:11 AM | Link to this

A new blog with sweet rumors? haha

By Football/Modern Music Fan

January 8, 2007 09:14 AM | Link to this

KC,

Medical science has found that if you take an 18-month period off from this blog as opposed to 12 months, you’ll come back stronger than ever. Report back in July 2008, buddy! Good luck!

By Football/Modern Music Fan

January 8, 2007 09:18 AM | Link to this

KC,

Medical science had concluded that if you take an 18-month period off from the blog as opposed to 12 months, you’ll come back stronger than ever. Report back in July 2008, buddy! Good luck!

By The Grinch

January 8, 2007 09:21 AM | Link to this

KC, sorry, bro, but the Falcons blog is full of cretins, morons, racists and degenerates (as opposed to this blog, which is only HALF-full). You sound like one of those people who don’t like music discussions. I think we should trade LaRoche only if we can get something great back for him, otherwise we should keep him because he’s a good player. There; that better? I should think you’d find football a welcome change from that by now. SCROLL DOWN.

Richard Cory, it’s true he’s hard to block for when he’s scrambling, but that doesn’t explain defenders beating the snap to him on plays he tries to stay in the pocket. Plus, his running yards usually come from bouncing to the outside on broken plays and just flat outrunning the defense, which has little to do with the line. He also throws a beautifully accurate deep ball, which has been dropped consistantly by his “receivers” all year. His stats don’t reflect that, because the QB is the one who gets reamed when a ball is dropped, but the Elias sports beaureau keeps track of that stat and if you factor it in, he’s a QB with 3,500 yards passing and 1,000 more on the ground this year. He still carries the ball like a loaf of bread and he still sometimes either one-hops the ball to a wide open man or tries to throw it through his skull from five yards for no apparent reason, but those are things Petrino can fix. He made Jake Plummer look good in college, for god’s sake. Thaks for the props re: my Dawgs; congrats to your Big East teams (and hopefully at some point I can say thanks for the coach).

By Football/Modern Music Fan

January 8, 2007 09:25 AM | Link to this

What I should have said, KC, is you’ll come back more overly optimistic than ever. Although by July 2008, even you might see the glass as half empty.

By Football/Modern Music Fan

January 8, 2007 09:25 AM | Link to this

What I should have said, KC, is you’ll come back more overly optimistic than ever. Although by July 2008, even you might see the glass as half empty.

By berigan

January 8, 2007 09:29 AM | Link to this

KC

I hear you! I am so glad to have this blog, (and other baseball only websites) to fill my fix this time of year. ESPN is a vast wasteland til spring training.

Somehow I get the feeling even if Smoltz, Andruw, and LaRoche were traded the same day, I bet there wouldn’t be any talk of it on the Football blogs….

By berigan

January 8, 2007 09:36 AM | Link to this

Egad! More football talk! Why can’t you Falcon fans be like the Hawk fans? You know, ashamed and very quiet??? ;)

By KC

January 8, 2007 09:48 AM | Link to this

GRINCH and others. I’m just giving you a hard time. Though I can’t say I don’t resent football a little for the afore mentioned reasons, I don’t begrudge you a little foosball discussion. Just so long as everyone understands that baseball is a superior sport. =)

By Lew

January 8, 2007 09:54 AM | Link to this

KC-I rerally don’t give a damn about the Falcons, either (we won’t even talk about my Bucs), but letting these guys talk about it keeps them off of the streets. This makes life much safer than it otherwise might be.

By Mike

January 8, 2007 09:56 AM | Link to this

DOB, why not Big Mac because of his one-dimensional play? Wasn’t Tony Gwynn one-dimensional (hit for average)? He didn’t have a good arm, he wasn’t fast and he didn’t hit 400 HRs. Based on this, Big Mac should be a shoe-in for the Hall. And it should be based on what he did on the field. He wasn’t the Andruw of first base, but he wasn’t bad. He didn’t make a lot of errors in his prime. He hit 49 HRs in his first full rookie year (before he ballooned). Ty Cobb is in, why not Big Mac and, as much as it pains me to say, Barry Bonds (although I don’t want him to break Hammerin’ Hank’s record)?

By Shaun

January 8, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

KC,

You would have a hard time starting investigations of players you suspect of using steroids. If a commissioner wanted to start investigations of players, the union would be all over him and would probably be able to stop him. The union would file a grievance and that would be the end of that. I’m sure investigating players 7-8-10 years after the fact could and would be construed as violating the collective bargaining agreement. And I’m sure individual players could get their own lawyers and do a pretty good job of halting investigations.

Also, how are you going to pick and choose which players to investigate, if investigations were possible? You are going to investigate McGwire and not Jeff Bagwell or Frank Thomas or Roger Clemens or basically any other player who put up impressive numbers in the mid- to late-1990’s? If you investigate all of those players, who do you not investigate? Where is the line drawn?

I understand your point and obviously baseball has a black mark, but there’s no simple solution and it’s tough because we don’t really know who’s clean and who’s not. Yes, McGwire probably wasn’t clean. I know it’s not making a huge assumption but how do you assume McGwire used but not Bagwell or Clemens or any other player who could be in the Hall that had great years in the ‘90’s?

If you bring up the steroid issue when McGwire is up for election, you have to bring it up with everyone who put up impressive numbers in that era, don’t you? And where do you draw the line?

By The Grinch

January 8, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

I look upon you non-football lovers as someone might trying to play Mozart to the tone-deaf. So sad. Oh, well; I guess it just wasn’t meant to be. Be glad their aren’t any other die hard Dawg fans here or it would be even worse. I happen to love baseball, but y’all have to admit not a single original thing has been said here about the Braves in about two weeks (except RorbrtJTIB going through every possible trade scenario with every team and their minor-league affiliates)…at least my Falcons information is fresh.

By The Grinch

January 8, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

Mike, I’m a big McGwire supporter and I can sort of see where you’re going with Gwynn (though I think his hitting accomplishments were more difficult), but neither belongs in the same sentence with Cobb (personality notwithstanding).

By berigan

January 8, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

Mike, Tony Gwynn was not one dimensional! He stole 319 bases, and one season stole 56 bases! Stole 17 at the age of 35. he got fat, but lots of people do that. He was an excellent fielder even as he got older. May not have had a rocket for an arm, but he fielded like he hit, smart.

By Lew

January 8, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Shaun-You think the whole steroid thing is a mess now, but Congress just legally got the list of more than 100 players who tested positive the year before MLB decided to get tough. Just how long do you think that list will remain unknown to the public? What do you think might be the fallout from publication of that list. We haven’t come close to hearing the end of this disaster-not even close to the end.

By Shaun

January 8, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Mike,

I agree—McGwire may have been a “one-dimensional” player but there is no president for keeping out players because they are one-dimensional if that one dimension is good enough. McGwire was good enough at one-dimension (hitting). Some may argue he was just a power-hitter, but his .394 OBP is impressive.

By Ron Roberts

January 8, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

MBATL…

Wasn’t our trade for Soriano supposed to take care of having an heir-apparent for Wikcman after 2007, if we needed one? That’s just another solid reason why this supposed trade doesn’t work for Atlanta. We can pick up (or groom, or move up) a “serviceable” lefty to go with McBride in the ‘pen without giving up anything to the detriment of our team’s strengths, which I think are pitching depth in our rotation and our offense.

By KC

January 8, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Shaun: As DOB reminded me the other day, there has been some sort of investigation under way. We haven’t heard anything about it, either because it’s not yielding any fruit, or because they don’t care to make it public… don’t know which.

Here’s my thing… we already know that 100 players tested positive for steroids. Even if the investigations produce nothing, we have 100 guys that we know have criminally cheated. If it was before there were any concrete consequences in place, then there’s nothing they can do about it in a disciplinary sense. BUT, I’ll say it again… MLB can choose who it wishes to honor.

The Hall of Fame is an honor given to those who have brought honor and greatness to the game. Any player who has cheated to get where they are (and I don’t give damn how much of what they accomplished can or cannot be reasonably attributed to steroids), stealing from other players in the process… then they do NOT deserve to be honored by Major League Baseball. I don’t mean to sound pretentious here… I know everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I can’t see how anyone could possibly argue otherwise.

If you criminally cheat and steal from other players, you don’t deserve the honor of Hall of Fame recognition. Period.

By The Grinch

January 8, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

KC, I agree steroids are BS, but if we threw everyone out of the hall who cheated to gain a competetive advantage there’d be about five players in there. I agree a line should be drawn somewhere, but we’ve got a ways to go before we know enough about what’s going on to say “players X, Y and Z need to be banned and no-one should argue otherwise.” We’re at the tip of the steroid iceberg; what if you’re boy Huddy’s one of those 100 on that new list? How ‘bout Smoltz? Bet there’d suddenly be room for some argument. What about Gaylord Perry and Don Sutton? Would they still be in the hall if they’d played by the rules? I’m not saying everyone who cheated should be in or out, I’m just saying it’s a mighty nebulous situation to be making blanket statements.

By 2Smile

January 8, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

DOB: Great CD if you like the county, bluegrass, folk sound is Little Big Town. They are my new favorite, love every song. Also, just to add, I will for sure miss Giles and his energy this year, he was so much fun to watch, but understand why he had to go. My husband and I will miss spring training this year due to having a baby, but I look forward to keeping up with all the news from your articles, keep up the good work.