Braves

By JasonInMaine

December 26, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I won’t rehash the Baseball Prospectus blurb as you already mentioned that you don’t feel any big moves are in the works. But, I do have to ask about the site and its writers. As a professional, what is your opinion. I guess I am wondering if they are some blog site run by someone in their basement, credible sources in comparison to writers like yourself or ESPN reporters, or somewhere in between. Their site is simply one that for whatever reason I have never really visited, so I don’t know much about it. I value your opinion, so I thought I would ask.

Regards,

Jason

By Ron

December 26, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

Unless the Braves can get a deal they should not even make a move, the team is already good I think the Braves will win the East this season. I agree with you DOB, that Atlanta will only trade Adam only if they get a WOW package, such as if Pirates trade Maholm, McClutchen, and get Cabrera. Dont see that happening. Or gettin Ray and Penn for LaRoche.

By eric the elder

December 26, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

I remember last summer when the Braves were in free fall that a lot of smirky posters reminded us that the Falcons season was just around the corner. I wonder where they are now?

Last April I said that the Braves just weren’t a very good team. I got pounded by the same people who said the same thing in August, just not as kindly. However, the Braves blogs, even in their worst days, are models of civility compared to the really vicious stuff we’ve seen on the Falcons blogs this fall. I think that in the South, football stirs more emotions. Also, there are only 1/10 as many games, so dumping on the team is more compacted.

I’ll stick my neck out right now and agree with JS that the team is already better than it was last year.

By Lew

December 26, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

DOB-Welcome Back (from most of us). I’ll weigh in with a bit of a review of a cd you didn’t include-Grace Potter and The Nocturnals. Any one into blues, hard R&B and Blue Eyed Soul will love this group. They have been playing the Burlington Club scene for several years and finally gotten some national recognition. Grace’s vocals have been compared (with good reason) to Bonnie Raitt and Janis Joplin. She has an excellent voice and is the most soulful singer I’ve heard in a long time. I think her band is decent, but they are definitely backing her up. I have a feeling that she will go further than the band will, but they are at least adequate. She is great. I would like to hear her sing with Greg Allman, with Derek Trucks and Waren Haynes backingher up. She would have been great singing with James Btrown (may he rest in peace). Any body into the blues should pick up this album (it comes with a DVD, too.)

By BravesfaninBJ

December 26, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

As the first poster of the blog (so it seems), let me just say… DOB, I lurk here all year and love your insight obviously on the Braves, and on music. Happy Holidays and may this year be filled with many victories.

By Jeremy

December 26, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

I still feel the Braves should do whatever possible to add Rocco Baldelli. Also adding Mike Gonzalez to the ‘pen will make a 180 degree turn from last year and bring complete dominance to the end of games, but not for LaRoche straight up. I like the idea of a multi-team trade perhaps involving some combination of the DevilRays, Orioles, Rangers, and Pirates. I also would not be opposed to the Braves trading Andruw Jones THIS offseason if we got a capable CF replacement and a stud starting or relief pitcher. With all of the rumors swirling at all kinds of different websites, I guess we’ll just have to keep waiting to see what happens.

By DobTriesTooHardToBeCoolWhenItComesToMusic

December 26, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, you forgot to mention Hootie and the Blowfish “Live in Charleston” in your top 25 records of the year. What a great record that is. Shame on you.

By The Grinch

December 26, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

I think this team will be just fine one way or the other. Everyone just needs to calm down a little bit. Did Santa bring you anything exciting, Dave?

By Andy from Norcross

December 26, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

DOB,

What’s the status with Boyer, Devine, Startup, McBride, etc. Is Stuertz really going to be a part of this bullpen? I also heard the Pirates would have done Gonzalez for LaRoche, but the Braves wanted Castillo too. Is that true? Thanks Dave! Also, Dave, what’s your greatest story as a beat writer for the Braves?

By David O'Brien

December 26, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

Grinch, not really. Except for four first-edition concert posters, the small kind that go on light poles, etc, that my brother got from an artist in San Francisco. Good stuff from the 80s, for shows by X, Alejandro Escovedo, couple others I’ve alread forgotten (he’s got to ship ‘em to me, since I couldn’t put ‘em in the suitcase or carry-on for flight back from KC).

Oh, and one for Hootie and the Blowfish.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 26, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

dob, the ajc described james brown as a crooner. do you consider him a crooner and why? now, baseball … esteemed braves manager bobby cox was seen with one of dob’s cd’s: The Coup: “Pick a Bigger Weapon”. it is good to know bobby enjoys music. now, thanks for the new blog. grinch has his new speakers and the neighbors are in for a long night.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 26, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, I know you think I’m an idiot who doesn’t know baseball. I realize some of my trade proposals are convoluted, but some aren’t. I could definitely see a three way deal between the Braves and Rangers. As I have said before, the O’s send Ray, Penn, and Miguel Tejada to the Rangers for Texiera and Robinson Tejada. The Rangers then send CJ Wilson, Penn, and Kinsler to the Braves for LaRoche and Diaz. The O’s get rid Tejada and get a talented young pitcher to replace the one they got. In Texiera they receive the power hitting 1B they want. The Rangers get Ray who will be an excellent setup guy and further allow them to shop Otsuka. Of course, Tejada is someone they have been salivating over for awhile. This move allows them to move Michael Young to 2B. The Braves get a good young and talented 2B in Kinsler. Penn gives them another good young arm. CJ Wilson gives them the lefty out of the pen they have been looking for. Thorman steps into play 1B and perhaps gives a chance for Gregor Blanco to step in.

By Raymond

December 26, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

We better hope Zito doesn’t end up with the Mets or we’ll be doomed for years to come.

JS should move into the political arena - he talks a great game.

Once they have another seaon out of the playoffs, they’ll realize you can’t bluff your way with an $80 million payroll.

This team is marginally better than last year, if at all. Hmapton is not a sure thing, Sturze is coming off a major injury and Soriano had problems in winter ball.

If Daryl Ward left us to sign with the Cubs for $1.05 million, we are in big trouble.

By double j

December 26, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Hey, This blog is awesome, I got hooked on it about a month ago and cant stop returning. There are two things i like most music and baseball( esp. the Braves) This blog is very quick on info, and i have learned quite a bit about them, and I thought I was pretty knowledgeable. But I definately like the new adds of music. I have only been alive for two decades and have learned the older the music, usually the better. And have come to like Tom Waits because of this blog…Keep it up!

By Ron

December 26, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, got a question for you. If the Braves keep Andruw and he leaves for free agency(which he will) if a team was one of 13 of the worst teams in baseball the Braves would not get their first round pick or would they? They would get their 2nd round draft pick am i right or wrong? Because the Cubs signed Soriano and they get the 3rd overall pick in June and I think they get to keep that pick and just give up their 2nd round pick is that true? I was just wondering!

By David O'Brien

December 26, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

Ron, yes, they’d get the team’s second-rounder in that scenario, and also a sandwich pick between first and second rounds. As was the case with D. Baez…

Jimmy, “crooner” would not be in the list of adjectives I’d use for the Godfather of Soul. However, especially on his earliest albums, he did have some huge hits with slow songs, Jackie Wilson-sounding stuff like “Try Me.”

But I think he’s more identified, at least he is to me, with the stuff like “Cold Sweat,” “Papa’s Got a Brand New Bag” and “Say It Loud _ I”m Black and I’m Proud.”

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 26, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

I really do think this team is good enough to win the NL East. However, I don’t think its good enough to get to a WS let alone win it. I just don’t.

Now, here is another way out left field proposal but the Will Carol article got me to thinking because of a name he mentioned. The name was Curtis Granderson. How about this? The Braves send Andruw and a mid level prospect to the Tigers for Craig Monroe, Chris Shelton, and Ledezma. The Braves could then send LaRoche and Salty to the O’s for Penn and Ray. The Braves can then flip Ray, Davies and Escobar to the Rays for Baldelli. Baldelli steps in to play CF, while Monroe plays LF. Shelton (who has fallen somewhat out of the good graces of Leyland) can platoon with Thorman at 1st. Monroe is capable of 30HR 110RBI. Between Shelton and Thorman they COULD hit those same type of numbers. The Braves would have Aybar, Woodward, B. Pena, Shelton, and Langerhans on the bench. Diaz could be packaged for whatever. Ledezma gives Atlanta the lefty reliever they want. The Tigers get Andruw and can offer him the contract he wants especially if they backload it.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 26, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you think the team as presently constructed could win a WS?

By jouranlist jimmy smith

December 26, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith has always enjoyed james brown. i feel good, papa’s got a brand new bag, all good. not really a crooner, though. too small for a crooner. too big for second base.

By Jim

December 26, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

I am not sure if the cutoff is at the bottom 13 or 15, but if a team in the bottom echelon signs a type A free agent, the other team gets a sandwich pick at the end of the first round and the first teams’s second round pick.

By kreedham

December 26, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

Not much baseball news so I’ll talk music.

I’ll have to check out the Artic Monkey’s. It seems to be the only one that’s making everybody’s list.

Not much into the new releases but here’s a couple I like from 2006:

Neil Young-Livng with War

Duke Robillard-Guitar Groove-a-Rama-It’s got a 16 minute cut with Duke paying tribute to Buddy Guy, Albert King, BB King and others.

Buddy Guy-Got his next box set for Christmas!

Hope you got a few Cd’s for Christmas.

By The Grinch

December 26, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

Robert (JITB), as long as the 5-game wild card exists all you have to be is slightly better than average and lucky to win the world series. The best teams almost always get knocked off in that round (good teams are built to win in the long haul) and mediocre teams are left to slug it out. The Cardinals weren’t even in the top 5 best teams in BB last year yet they won the WS. Until the gutless commish comes in and at least stretches all PS series to 7 games (and gets rid of corporate ownership while he’s at it) post season baseball will continue to be a shadow of itself and any half-decent team might win. While that setup benefits the Braves, I think it’s killing the sport. There are no “great” teams anymore because of that system. What has it all come to?

By Ron Roberts

December 26, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

If the St. Louis Cardinals can win a WS w/that scrap heap of a rotation they had last season, the Braves could win with what they’re going into the ‘07 season as is for sure.

Problem is, the NL East is gonna be a dogfight; the Mets, the Phils, the Fish and the Braves all have reasons to be optimistic.

But whomever gets outta that division will be formidable; I think the Braves (right now) are the most balanced of the four.

By ?

December 26, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

?

By Drew

December 26, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

Robert, I honestly don’t think Granderson is the type of player that JS would want as his leadoff hitter. If we are going to make a trade to try to get a lead off guy, I don’ think we need a guy who was near the top of the league in strikeouts. I just don’t think that makes much sense. I, for one, do think that LaRoche will be traded, simply because he is in such high demand. I think right now, we can get more for him than he is actually worth to the Braves, especially if we get a platoon partner for Thorman in the package, i.e. Kotchman. DOB, do you think the Shea Hillenbrand signing makes it more likely that the Angels will trade Figgins or Kotchman?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 26, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

I do believe this team will be fine in 2007, but my real fear is 2008 and beyond. Look, Andruw is not staying. I really wish those who want to believe he will take some sort of discount or money will rain down from heaven wouuld just wake up and smell the coffee. He is leaving. And if this was two years ago I would say no reason to trade him because someone will be available. But, not how the market is now. Does anyone not realize that a medicore outfielder can get paid what Andruw is getting paid now? Don’t believe me?! Gary Matthews Jr. received a 5yr/$50 mil deal. I fear the Braves will not be able to sign anyone who can even come close to matching his production or at least find a young guy who can reach that level in a year or two. I have a similar fear with Hudson. I think Hudson will bounce back, but what if he doesn’t? I think a pitcher who is medicore and making $13 million dollars will be hard to trade. Even in this current market. So, then a team with a limited payroll will be stuck with a pitcher who has lost way hoping he finds his mojo. I just don’t feel comfortable with that when these guys can be traded to clear payroll, get some good young quality players in return and have more flexibility next winter to sign some good (not superstars) players to fill whatever needs there are.

I really think that both of these guys can be traded and the Braves can still be contenders. I realize Andruw has the right to reject any trades (which I will say again is why he should have been traded last summer), but I don’t think any effort has been made to move him and other teams aren’t inquiring because they feel the Braves won’t talk. And I don’t want to hear about why would someone trade for him when they can sign him next winter. This is a totally different situation from Marcus Giles. There are teams right now that Andruw could put over the top (Red Sox, Angles, Dodgers, Giants, Rangers, White Sox, and Astros). Most of those teams I think would give Andruw and Boras what they want.

Perhaps, I’m wrong and I’m sure many on here will let me know that I am but I just don’t have a good feeling about any of this.

By The Grinch

December 26, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

My sandwich pick is a hot pastrami on rye, with provalone and some Coleman’s English hot mustard. Yee-hah!

By Ron

December 26, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

What yall think about this trade- Braves send Andruw Jones and Martin Prado to Texas for Brandon McCarthy, Kinsler, and Kevin Mahar, and, or Steve Murphy. The Braves then send LaRoche and Diaz to Orioles for Ray, and Penn. Then possibly trade Davies, Escobar, Larew, Devine, and possibly Salty for Baldelli. Looks like a pretty good trade for all. Would Andruw waive his no-trade clause, if he got a good extension he would, and he has said if the Braves can get a good package for him, Andruw said he would leave.

How about this lineup- not batting order, C-McCann, 1B-Thorman, 2B-Kinsler, SS-Renteria, 3B-Chipper Jones, RF-Francouer, CF-Baldelli, LF-Maher,or Murphy

Pitching Staff- Smolts, Hudson, Hampton, McCarthy, and James (Penn would go to the Minors or Bullpen)

Bulpen- Wickman, Ray, Soriano, McBride, Boyer, Paronto, and whoever else.

A good team for the future and this year also.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 26, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Ron and Grinch, I hear you and agree to some extent. I like the lineup of: Johnson, Renteria, C. Jones, A. Jones, McCann, Francoeur, LaRoche, and Thorman/Diaz with Woodward, Abyar, Langerhans, and B. Pena on the bench. I like the rotation and feel that the Kyle Davies we saw in April was much closer to the real Kyle Davies and the one that pitched in September was still injured and was only on the mound because the team’s pitching depth was so depleted. The bullpen is much better with Wickman as the closer from day one and Soriano as the setup guy and insurance. McBride will be better and Boyer will be back. I also think Frenchy will be a better player with a full spring training. If you really think about it, almost every guy who played in the Baseball Classic had either injury problems, took awhile to get going (Villearal), or just never really found their touch.

Anyway, I think the team is very good and can compete in the NL East. I think the Mets and Phillies are overrated and have as many if not more questions than the Braves, but I just don’t know about a WS. I know that luck plays a part but I would like to know we have a team that could stand up to any of the AL teams and beat them in a seven game series.

By David O'Brien

December 26, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Kreedham, Neil’s Living With War should be on my list, too. I just forgot about it….

Robert, IF Hampton is healthy for all or most of the year, and provided Smoltz does something close to what he’s done past two years, yes, I believe they are good enough to win a WS. But that’s not saying too much, because I think at least a dozen other teams are probably good enough to win it, too.

As was pointed out, a year ago at this time NO ONE would’ve picked Detroit to make the playoffs, much less win the World Series. And in September, who would’ve picked the Cards to win a playoff series?

Any team with a solid offense, three strong starters, or a couple of good starters and a great bullpen, can win a World Series.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 26, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

Drew, I agree about Granderson. I also think that Hillenbrand getting signed could mean that Figgins is moving but not necessarily Kotchman. If anything, Kendry Morales would get traded since Kotchman is a left handed hitter.

Ron, McCarthy isn’t going anywhere. We would be better suited attempting to acquire Robinson Tejada or Scott Feldman.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 26, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, in your honest opinion, do you think there is a chance in hell the Braves get Rocco Baldelli? I just don’t see how they can get him if the Rays are that stuck on James. Unless the Braves can con a very good pitcher away from another team without giving up one themselves, I just don’t see it.

By flbravesgirl

December 27, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

Not a pressed Cuban, Grinch? That would be my pick. By the way, you have mail (2, since I forgot something in the first one).

Thanks for the fresh blog and the LaRoche article, DOB. In his shoes, I wouldn’t want to hear all the rumors either.

Robert(JITB), I think you’re right about the WBC. The players need a full spring training.

Hope everyone had a good Christmas!

By Drummerdad

December 27, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

Hard to classify James Brown. He really initiated his own spot, and so many others imitated that. He was a socio-economic disaster who made it big and had a driven work ethic that kept him there for the most part. I used to work with a trumpet player who played for him. The stories he would tell were hillarious. Too bad he’s gone from us this soon. Roy Haynes is close to his mid 80’s now and is still out there playing drums.

From DOB’s description, it sounds like John Schuerholz is playing John Schuerholz again. Poker face. Cards played incredibly well and close to the vest. He’s like The Mona Lisa: Is she smiling or isn’t she?

By RW

December 27, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

Mr. OBrian, two CD’s that came out this year that are must haves for any rock and roll fan: Jet’s second album, Shine On, and Army Of Anyone’s debut album.

Jet reminds you of the Beatles on at least half the tracks, and Army of Anyone has the guitarist and bassist from STP and lead singer from Filter, and is riff-heavy hard rock. Just two suggestions for your list.

By Wilkun

December 27, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this

Dave, no comment on the passing of the Godfather of Soul? I’m stunned.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 01:11 AM | Link to this

Wow, just got done watching Jackass 2 on DVD. Speechless.

Anyway, what can be said of James Brown? I mean, simply one of the tremendous, towering, iconic figures in popular music.

Watch the old black-and-white footage of him and the J.B.s, and it’s just incredible. His voice, that amazing tight, funky band, those moves … that was it. There’d have been no Prince, Rick James, George Clinton, Bootsy Collins, et al, without James Brown.

RW, I haven’t even heard Jet’s second album, but I loved the first one. Is it as good, similar?

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 01:28 AM | Link to this

Did everyone go to bed? (it’s only 11:15 here in Utah)

I think it takes a few decent starters, and bit of luck and some clutch bats to win the WS. We and about another 10-12 teams are potential WS winners for ‘07.

I also like the idea of unloading AJ before the season starts. I would draw a hard line with the likes of Scott Bore-us and his ascertions and arrogance, even though he is good at getting the bucks. I would take the approach as a GM that if you sign with SB, we are no longer interested in retaining you long term. Who’s team is it anyway? And please don’t give me the whiny sad story about 80 million not being enough to field a winner.

Gotta get some shut-eye…..

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 01:32 AM | Link to this

Just heard of the passing of Gerald Ford tonight. He was put into office while I was serving in the military in the summer of 1974. He was a gentleman and a true patriot. It’s hard to find any of those anymore.

OOPS, I forgot, this is a sports/music blog. Sorry about that.

Godfather, RIP.

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 01:50 AM | Link to this

Dave

If you are still “blogging”, what’s your take on the Will Carroll rumors? Is JS possibly working on a multi team or a couple of trades concurrently?

I like the upside of Markakis. I would give up AJ, LaRoche, Hudson and a couple of prospects in a heartbeat for Markakis, Ray, and Willis. How could we get this one worked out????

Gotta get one of Billy Carter descendants to teach “pee” etiquette to Dontrelle though……

By Bryan

December 27, 2006 02:25 AM | Link to this

Top 10 of 06 (no order)

Flaming Lips - At War With Mystics

Hank III - straight to hell

Belle and Sebastian- The Life Pursuit

Killer Mike - I Pledge Allegiance (underground release - get it! - best ice cube esque hip hop since … well, Ice Cube)

Gnarles Barkely - St Elsewhere

Red Hot Chili Peppers -Stadium Arcadium

Old Crow Medicine Show- Big Iron World

Neko Case - Fox Confessor Brings the Flood

Outkast - Idlewild

By Bryan

December 27, 2006 02:27 AM | Link to this

Yall,

best new bluegrass folk band- little county giants , playing Wed. Dec. 27 @ Eddies Attic, with the Lowlands, and Son of the Jerk (Atlanta, GA)

if you can go see this DO IT! Ohh and its not rompin wild bluegrass - its slow, meaning full, and kinda composed. (not that i dont like romping grass - but this is a nice change)

By DAP

December 27, 2006 02:46 AM | Link to this

Grinch

do you really think that a 5 game DS is ruining the game of baseball?

i agree with making the DS a seven game series…but mostly because that menas more baseball for me to enjoy, and there is a lot more thought that goes into strategy for a seven game series…mostly like pitching spots and stuff like that.

i believe that its rare for a team to make it to the playoffs without at least a chance of winning it all. you dont make the play-offs unless you are a good team. the season is the long haul, and if a team make its through the regular season, then they have proven they are good enough.

(i have to pause here and say that an exception is the padres in 2005. they won the NL west division with a record that i think was like…one game over .500, the whole division stunk. this was an instance where i wished the top 4 best records went to the playoffs and we did away with divisions, but most of the time divisions work real good.)

back to the original topic, you dont make the playoffs without a team that can win long term. now before someone brings up the wild card and its shortcomings, it needs to be pointed out that the team that wins the wild card always has at LEAST the 4th best record in the league. even if they make a unbelievable late run and make it to the playoffs on fire (i.e. ‘04 & ‘05 astros) they have the record to back up that they are one of the best teams.

so the medicore teams dont have a chance to beat the good teams in the postseason, grinch…because the medicore teams were weeded out in the regular season. it just doesnt make sense to say the best teams lose in the first round…that may just mean they arent as good as you thought.

but yeah, lets get the DS changed to 7 games. the more baseball, the better.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 03:17 AM | Link to this

DAP: yes, I really believe that. I am a man of strong convictions (just look at my rap sheet). Really, though; any rag-tag gathering of d-bags can win a 5-game series if a couple of strong performances and luck goes their way…the same cannot be said in a best of 7. Time to do the right thing.

I feel really bad today ‘cause I thought both James Brown and Gerald Ford had been dead for several years. Oops. I wonder if Ford’s pallbearers will slip and bust their a* on the way to the grave…

FBG, there are so many wonderful sandwiches I couldn’t possibly pick one…the one I cited was the first one to appear on my concious horizon. Be careful with Cubans; speaking of former presidents. :-)

By Dale Murphy's Oil Soap

December 27, 2006 03:19 AM | Link to this

My personal top 7 cd’s of ‘06(in no particular order):

The Who - Endless Wire Springsteen- Seeger Sessions Solomon Burke - Nashville Bob Dylan - Modern Times Jerry Lee Lewis - Last Man Standing Fats Domino-Alive and Kickin Sonic Youth -Ripped

By Wedgie Evans

December 27, 2006 03:35 AM | Link to this

Wow, DOB, Ghostface and Clipse? I am impressed!

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 03:39 AM | Link to this

My top 10 cd’s of ‘06:

Nothing. As far as I’m aware, it’s been a while since anyone’s put out anything worth my listening to. I’ll throw out a top 25 in five different genre’s sometime when I’m both drunk and sober enough to do so. G’night, all.

By berigan

December 27, 2006 03:54 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best) I agree with you, if we can find a team Andruw would like to go to, we ought to trade him, because we have to really worry about 2008 and beyond. Baldelli, or _(Fill in the blank) will be just that more expensive next year, and we will have to trade away young assets to get whoever’s available to fill in for him. And teams will know that JS will be desperate to replace him, and will ask too much knowing JS will be over a barrel. I think for once, we are seeing JS this winter being more proactive instead of reactive. After what happened with the signings of Soriano and Carlos Lee, There is NO way we can sign Andruw next winter, unless he is hurt for much of the season. None. He will get offered 6-8 million more per year to play elsewhere. Does anyone really expect him to lose out on 40-50 million over the life of a contract, so he can play for Bobby? And we all know Bobby won’t be in the dugout till the end of that contract. And I imagine Andruw, deep down must be tired of seeing the team not go after free agents,(Heck, we can’t keep Brave’s players that become free agents even) If for 8 million more a year, I bet he could put up with the cold in Boston, knowing that he would be adored as a God, and that the team will do just about anything to stay competitive. I know JS has to say it, only trading players that make you better now, is short sited, to say the least. Sure, he should try to keep the team competitive, but everyone seems to want ML ready folks, if not established, excellent players. Well, if you can get the kind of pitchers the Marlins did when they sold off their team, why not do that with Andruw, or Hudson??? With them off the payroll come 2008, we would have so much more flexibility for whatever injures/and or opportunities occur in the future(As long as the new ownership didn’t start thinking a 60-70 Mil Payroll was fine and dandy!) And if we had got hard throwing(and cheap) pitching prospects in return, they could learn on the job this year. If they develop quickly, great! We can be the Detroit Tigers of the NL in 2007. But Robert, you are right, this doesn’t look like a WS team by any stretch, the two most important pitchers we have are too close to 40 for my comfort. And unless every starter(And reliever for that matter) is healthy and has career years, it won’t be too much fun in the ATL come October. Now, if we can just get some dark horse like Seattle to sign Zito, we might just beat the Mets!

By ppaddy123

December 27, 2006 04:07 AM | Link to this

Dave, have you heard any rumor about JD Drew failing his physical with the Red Sox?

By Sane Jane

December 27, 2006 04:15 AM | Link to this

An Augusta native with some inside dirt: despite what you hear about the Masters, most locals will tell you that the best party week we have is James Brown’s birthday bash. Downtown AUG, closed down streets, street performances by some notable celebs… it’s quite the hootenanny. Plus, after a few quiet years, I have a hunch that this year’s fete as a commemoration might be worth seeing firsthand. Y’all come on down now, y’hear?

And I’m not afraid to say it: I don’t want to trade LaRoche under almost any circumstances. Certainly not for any of the names that have bandied about lately.

By berigan

December 27, 2006 04:23 AM | Link to this

**Oh, I posted this on the other blog, but I feel it bears repeating, since this is a nice fresh one that everyone should be able to read.

As I and others have mentioned, once the latest blog gets over 200 posts, it blogs, er, bogs down for us. When DOB said he could see every post in 40 seconds on his laptop at the airport, and with my computer with DSL took over 5 minutes(And I could go nowhere on the web while waiting, even in previously opened browser windows) I thought, damn, something must be wrong with my connection, or computer.

So, after deleting/burning several gigs worth of cds, I tried again. No dice, still slow. I have 512 MB of RAM, seems like enough, though I know newer computers have much more than that. What I really couldn’t figure out, was if I did a google search, it came back with results in 0.04 seconds! Doesn’t sound like a connection issue. But a few other sights, like Espn also would give me an “hourglass” for 30-60 seconds after clicking on the baseball link. So, long story longer, I remembered I had an old version of the Netscape broswer. I tried the previous blog with around 500 posts. It loaded up in about 30 seconds, and I could scroll down while the page was still filling in! Ah so internet explorer is the problem! I have the very latest version(Oh yeah, went from the beta version to it to make sure that wasn’t what was causing all the issues) NCBravesFan downloaded foxfire and said it was much, much quicker, and Grinch chimed in as well. So, if you have the same problem as we have, give one of the other browsers a try! You can keep IE if you really want to, and just use the other browser for this forum.**

By Sane Jane

December 27, 2006 04:29 AM | Link to this

Yes, I too love the “foxfire”!

Running it on a G4 iBook is even better!

By ncscoots

December 27, 2006 06:18 AM | Link to this

Robert, I certainly don’t think you are “an idiot who doesn’t know baseball”, and if I have given that impression, I apologize. I admire your passion, and as far as all your touted trade proposals go, hey, it’s all good, bruh. What’s the hot stove for, if not that kind of stuff, huh? Keep it up…

By JohnGTFan

December 27, 2006 07:45 AM | Link to this

DOB

I agree with many people that if we could, we should trade Andruw. But aren’t the Braves limited, not only because his 10/5 trade power? Doesn’t he only want to play somewhere warm…someone who is a winner? That doesn’t really leave too many places. Los Angeles(AL and NL)! Others can certainly afford him, but would he actually go? The only cold place I could envision him playing would be Boston because of the short porch in left. But I still don’t see him in that uniform. Do you think, in your infinite wisdom, JS realizing the Andruw scenario and quietly talking with GM’s to possibly move him before the spring? To be honest, I’d hate to see him go. But then again, I think we would all hate it more to see him go and get nothing but draft picks!

Nice blog, really enjoy your work over the other writers.

By the way, what has been your most rewarding experience since becoming a writer at the AJC?

Happy Holidays!!!!

By ncscoots

December 27, 2006 07:46 AM | Link to this

…but since you brought it up: 1. The Rangers are not going to (essentially) exchange R. Tejada for Chris Ray. They are looking for more SP, not less. 2. Who plays SS for the O’s when M. Tejada is traded? 3. Who plays 1B for the Rangers when Texeira is traded?

This trade essentially gives the Rangers a wash at 1B, and trades pitching for offense (the opposite of what the Rangers are trying to do); The O’s downgrade their offense (Texeira for Tejada) and trade two promising pitchers for one promising pitcher; and the Braves trade LaRoche for a serviceable lefty and two prospects (!). Taken in its component parts, does this scenario still seem logical to you?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 27, 2006 07:51 AM | Link to this

I think something “big” is up. JS isn’t a stupid man. He has had to talk to Andruw and gotten some sense of what he is going to do next year. He has to know what type of money Andruw is wanting and realizes that the Braves just aren’t going to be able to sign him. So, why not trade him now and get something for him. It would be silly for him to do what the Nats did last season. I will give him the benefit of the doubt about last summer and say that he could not foresee the outrageous contracts that were coming this offseason. Nobody could. But, now he JS knows. He has to look beyond this upcoming season. Andruw can be traded. I don’t believe for one minute that a team or two out there won’t give Andruw the contract he wants. Why would teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, and Rangers take the chance of waiting to the next offseason to bid for Andruw. Yes, those teams will have to give up some players but the Braves don’t want high paid stars. They want young good cheap players. That is something the Dodgers, Rangers, and Angles all have and they have the farm systems to replenish those loses.

I think somewhat the same thing for Hudson. Trade him for some younger pitching. JS quits needing to ask for the moon. A team like the Rangers will take a Hudson because they know that they will need him to have any chace of getting past the A’s and Angles. I don’t want to see either one of them go; however, the payroll is what it is. None of us like it but we have to live with it. Free up the money, get some good young players which will keep this team contenders for 2007, and be able to place themselves in position to offer McCann, James, and Francoeur “franchise friendly” contracts similar to the ones Baldelli and Crawford have that can get ahead of the curve of arbitration raises and ensure those guys are Braves for a very long time.

That is just my two cents.

By JohnGTFan

December 27, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

Robert

In complete agreement here. As you, would hate to see them go. But if the team can surround itself with young talent, the future, which is already bright, will be much brighter. Bobby knows how to get the most out of his players, ESPECIALLY the young one’s. Like you, I believe JS is working on this. Not to sure if he can get what he wants, but I think you have to get the most you can for your value, versus nothing at all.

By chipdip

December 27, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

FRANK ZAPPA…TRANS-FUSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 27, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Trades: unless JS can hit a “home run” and get the upper hand in a trade for LaRoche, young talent, etc., I don’t see it happening, and don’t want it to happen. I think the team is in fairly good shape, though would love to see somebody acquired or developed for the outfield in 2008 (I still think Frenchie can play center - he’s improving, and haven’t given up on Langerhans’ offense), and would likewise embrace a great left arm in the bullpen, but it sounds like the Bucs are demanding unreasonable ransom for Gonzalez.

Hudson - don’t see any team trading great or quality players for him right now. Too many question marks about him in their minds (though, in retrospect, his performance over the past two years has been relatively solid - not great, mind you - but not bad either). Maybe if he has a solid first half, teams will come calling - but, if that happens, why would we want to get rid of him?

Sandwiches - now here is something I really know!! FBG - agreed that the Cuban is the king of all sandwiches - I like to juke mine up with Jalapeno Jack Cheese (instead of swiss), Cajun remoulade (instead of mustard), and add sauteed onions and red bell pepper. The crunch of the hot crust of the bread is something I look forward to. Number two is Meatball Hero, with beer based marinara. Number three, I’ll go along with Grinch on this one - nothing beats a big Hot Pastrami with swiss on rye - David’s Deli in San Fran serves the best I have ever had. We’ve got a place here in Birmingham that serves “The Friar” - turkey, ham and swiss on an onion roll - battered and deep fried - a take off on the Monte Christo - served with sour cream for dipping - yes, the arteries clog just thinking about it, but damn, what a sandwich!!

By eddiejoost

December 27, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

The Braves need to trade for a second baseman or just trust Aybar in that role. He could be a solid leadoff guy. He doesn’t strike out much and has some speed. He is a very poor baserunner, however and would need some help in that regard.

By hop

December 27, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

who cares what the braves do. the only thing the braves are interested in is the bottom line.

when you try to trade upcoming player who posted 285 average and 30 or more home runs that tells you how much this team is intersted in building a contenter.

the new owner is only buying the club for a tax write off and it the deal has dragged on forever with no solution in sight.

the only way to get a owner who is really interested in the team e.g. arthur blank,is boycott the team and force a sale to an owner who will place the emphasis on putting a contender on the field.

By Efrim D

December 27, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

Braves should trade Andruw Jones. Period. End of Story. Jones to the Orioles for Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts.

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

I wonder if there is somthing between the Rangers and Braves. Let me give a few reasons. #1. Their front office guy was one of ours. #2. We have dealt with them before. #3. LaRoche has a ranch in Texas. #4. Teixera went to Georgia Tech. This is just speculation, but a Hudson/LaRoche for a Teixera/young starter trade may happen.

By JohnGTFan

December 27, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

I don’t see that trade happening with Texas. LaRoche is in Texas hunting with Chipper. And I don’t see ATL bringing in a big contract like Teixera…thought I would love to see him and Young in a Braves uniform.

By JohnGTFan

December 27, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

And I don’t think Jones will play in Baltimore. I truly don’t see him taking more money to play for a team that is not going to win.

By kinley

December 27, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

I think Texas needs their young pitchers too much to be willing to trade any of them. They’ve had such horrible pitching talent the last 6-7 years that if I were the Rangers I would keep my pitchers away from any trade talk. If I traded anyone, it’d be hitters for more pitching.

By Paul

December 27, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

All these AJ rumors are wonderful and all but he’s not going to waive his no trade clause. Even though he would probably hit 50+ in Texas. Hey Dave, if Andruw didnt have a no trade clause, do you think he would have been traded already? Check out the debate over Jim Rice for the Hall of Fame over on ESPN. I say he deserves to be in. (compared with some members that shouldn’t be there in the first place)

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Good points John. I forgot he was with Chipper. Anyway, I would love to see Teixera back in Atlanta. Just wishful thinking, I guess. Think about this, we get Teixera and then go get Baldelli. Whoa.

By geauxbraves2000

December 27, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

Keep LaRoche. He is proven, he has power and is great defensively. Gonzalez has been pitching in a small market with no big market pressure. Though I think the Braves are slowing turning into a smaller market team, they are still the Braves and have a legacy. It’s not worth the risk of Gonzalez turning into another Kolb. Not at that price.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t like to have Gonzalez on this team and see what would happen, but not at the expense of LaRoche.

Geaux Braves!!

By Efrim D

December 27, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Im on the Texas/Atlanta trade possibility that Mitchie Son just brought up. Teixera and McCarthy for Laroche and Hudson. Smoltz Hampton McCarthy James Davies. I like it. I would even throw in a prospect like Escobar to get that done.

By Instant Gratification

December 27, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Hey, DOB — how about posting a new blog? This one’s taking more than a nanosecond to upload!

By Gil

December 27, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Alas, except for the really dismal June last season the Braves were not that bad. In fact, they showed flashes of things to come I thought in August and September. June was however just too deep a hole to overcome. I thought the Cardinals should have at the very least sent the Braves a thany you card for their World Series Banner because if the Braves had not stepped up and knocked off the Astros when they did their whould have been a much different outcome in Motor City.

It’s a lot easier to build a winner when you have an open check book but a lot more interesting when you have to work for it. Ask Brian Cashman. LaRoach is just coming into his own and it would be a shame to lose him after all the patience shown by Bobby but who knows, the is another great player just waiting for a chance to show what he can do. Truthfully, how many of you fans had Furcal on your radar befor he broke into the bigs his rookie year?

By Robert

December 27, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

“This is just speculation, but a Hudson/LaRoche for a Teixera/young starter trade may happen.”

If you replace “young starter” with “marginal prospect” then you have the workings of a feasible trade.

I say let’s go for the gusto and propose Hudson, LaRoche, and Cox for Texeira

Happy New Year to all - I’ll be back on a more consistant basis after the first of the year (Hold the applause)

By Jared

December 27, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

Teixera is expensive. Why would we trade off LaRoche for him. That’s stupid. If you have someone hitting 30 homeruns for 400,000 and another player hitting 30 homeruns for 10,000,000, you don’t trade for close to the same production for much more money, especially on a budget that saw Marcus Giles to costly. Note: prices and production are just generalities, not Adam LaRoche and Teixera exactly.

O’Brien, any chance Schuerholz will try to extend Smoltz’s contract this offseason or during next season so he can retire a Brave and not become a free agent?

By Snowball's Chance

December 27, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Grinch ,Well put on the wild card. It is not going anywhere because it keeps up the interest level in even sub .500 teams. But a seven game first round. CH-Ching.

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

Teixeira makes $6.4 mil next year. The same as Hudson. LaRoche is going to make the same as McCarthy. We get the young pitcher we want and they get their starter (who was alot better in the AL). It looks good to me.

By Joe Fan

December 27, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

DOB, How does you list not include My Morning Jacket’s Okonokos? That is one of the most amazing live albums to ever be released.

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

I would much rather pay a proven 1st base guy that kind of money and get out from underneath Hudsons contract. Two things can happen, Hudson can have another off year and LaRoche might have been a one-year-wonder. if you look at it like this, Mccarthy’s arm is replacing LaRoche’s bat. Teiexira’s bat is replacing Hudson’s arm. Its essentially the same thing.

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Was reading earlier today that Rangers have given Zito and Bore-us until Friday to accept their proposal or they would have to go in “other” directions. Could that be trying to pick up Hudson? They really don’t need LaRoche unless they send Texeira to Baltimore. Who do they have that we would give them Hudson AND LaRoche for, that isn’t way too pricey??? They are not going to give up McCarthy, I don’t think.

AJ or LaRoche to Baltimore is more likely for pitching and maybe Roberts.

I still like the LA connections for AJ, if we can swing it. Then pull the trigger on James and Escobar to the Rays for Baldelli, if we have either Santana or Bedard on board to replace James.

One positive for getting rid of AJ and LaRoche is their ability to KILL rallies with those strikeouts. I would love to see some breakouts on their clutch hitting.

By Efrim D

December 27, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Teixera is a better player than Laroche, a lot better. Tex had a down year last year. Laroche had as good a season as your going to get from him.

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Mitchie-san

I can’t see JS going for Texiera under any circumstances. Now, saying that, it will probably happen, as JS has a way of surprising you with his deals.

:-)

Seriously, I think they like and want to keep LaRoche unless they are wow’ed by an offer, and if that happens, I think they take a chance on Thorman. We have a couple of possible 1B candidates in the minors that might be possible major league material in the not too distant future. Also, a guy like Mientkiewicz or a Craig Wilson could be had on the free agent market as a stop gap. Lots of average firstbasemen are out there to be had.

So, lets just say that if we deal with Texas, it will probably be about Hudson and maybe Langerhans or Diaz.

Whadddyyyaa think?

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

Efrim D and Mitchie San

It all comes down to the economics of an $80 mil team. Why add Tex when you can play Thorman for 6 mil less and keep him for 3-4 years at low $ pricing. Use the money saved on dealing Hudson (and hopefully AJ) on re-signing guys like Frenchie and McCann, and then spend a few bucks on some fill-in free agents (Craig Wilson, Mark Loretta, etc.)

I can’t see JS going for Texiera. Why not just keep LaRoche instead?

By double j

December 27, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

I dont think laroch would go to texas and we get teixiera, only because teixiera is younger and sitll has upside(yeah) but who knows. If it were to happen it would be a hudson/laroche for teixiera/koronka or benoit.

By Jared

December 27, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Texiera is not going to be a Brave so it’s all moot anyway.

By Jared

December 27, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

“Then pull the trigger on James and Escobar to the Rays for Baldelli”

No thanks.

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Good points Wayne. I am also thinking about the future without Andruw. Someone has to pick up those Hr’s and RBI’s. LaRoche cant carry the team, plus he might not be as good this year. We need a solid, definate bat for the future, and Teixera would be great.

By luke

December 27, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

guys, why not andruw and laroach to texas for texiera, mcCarthy, and either young or kinsler. then you could send one of our pitchers to tampa along with salty for baldelli and kelly johnson can move back to left field and baldelli can play center. then maybe send thorman and escobar for gonzalez. what do you think?

By JohnGTFan

December 27, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Living in fantasy land here for a bit Mitchie…yes, would love to see Baldelli and Texiera…now if JS can win the lottery, WE’LL HAVE THEM BOTH! LOL Seriously, we’ve been discussing all morning…finances finances finances prohibit…but hey, I’m still keeping hope that either JS will pull off a deal…not just to make a trade, but just because I’d hate to see us lose AJ and get NOTHING.

By JohnGTFan

December 27, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Living in fantasy land here for a bit Mitchie…yes, would love to see Baldelli and Texiera…now if JS can win the lottery, WE’LL HAVE THEM BOTH! LOL Seriously, we’ve been discussing all morning…finances finances finances prohibit…but hey, I’m still keeping hope that either JS will pull off a deal…not just to make a trade, but just because I’d hate to see us lose AJ and get NOTHING.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

I think maybe some NL fans aren’t quite clear on how strong a player “Tex” is. You folks need to take a look at his stats _ you’re talking about one of the more productive hitters in the AL over the past three years, a guy who had 75 doubles, 81 homers with 268 RBIs during a two-year span (2004-05), went .282-32-110 in a “down year” in ‘06 and has OPS totals of .930, .954 and .885 in the past three seasons, while playing 162 games each of the past two. Oh, and he’s 26.

He’s an absolute stud. Why they gonna trade him without getting a wealth of talent in return?

Wedgie, have you got the Clipse CD? Incredible. I don’t buy much hip-hop anymore, since my tastes in the genre fall along the lines of P.E., Wu-Tang and early-90s Ice Cube, De La Soul and Tribe.

But every once in a while one catches my ear, and Clipse have produced a couple of great CDs. Same for Ghostface, Kanye, Dead Prez, and this dude Immortal Technique, who’s kind of underground, or at least too political to get airplay.

Danger Mouse’s 2005 CD was great. Mos Def, Common, I like those guys. Just not the bling-intensive stuff, the slangin’ rock stuff.

OK, now that we’ve lost most of the Braves/Man in Black audience with this post, I’ll stop.

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Wow, I just figured it all out:

Hudson for Otsuka AJ for Santana and Figgins (throw in Paronto?) LaRoche and Davies for Penn and Ray Escobar and Soriano for Baldelli

Bullpen is better, (Ray and Otsuka for Soriano and Paronto), SP is better (Hudson and Davies for Santana and Penn), CF is close (AJ for Baldelli), 2B is better (Escobar for Figgins) and 1B is a downgrade (LaRoche for Thorman/Jurries/whoever).

Move Johnson to LF and there you have it. (OK, so maybe I am a dreamer……) That’s why we call it the hot stove league.

By JohnGTFan

December 27, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Living in fantasy land here for a bit Mitchie…yes, would love to see Baldelli and Texiera…now if JS can win the lottery, WE’LL HAVE THEM BOTH! LOL Seriously, we’ve been discussing all morning…finances finances finances prohibit…but hey, I’m still keeping hope that either JS will pull off a deal…not just to make a trade, but just because I’d hate to see us lose AJ and get NOTHING.

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

It is all moot, but fun to think about.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you can’t be serious with this: “Nothing. As far as I’m aware, it’s been a while since anyone’s put out anything worth my listening to.”

You sound about, oh, 90, dude. Even my DAD found a couple of great new releases last year, including the new Jerry Lee Lewis, which I also liked.

You mean to tell me you didn’t like the Truckers’ CD, the new Springsteen, the new band Artic Monkeys, great jazz CDs by Wynton Marsalis (Live at the House of Tribes) or John Coltrane (“Live at the Half Note”), not to mention the last Cash set, the latest Dylan masterpiece, etc?

Hey, tough critic. Hope there’s something that catches your ear in 2007, dude.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Bergian, regarding your browser post at 4-something AM: Personally I use the Safari browser and rarely have more than a 30-second delay to download.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Reply to DOB’s 12:08 post (last 4 paragraphs):

Huh???

By Shaun

December 27, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

It would take a lot to get Texiera. He’s an elite player right now. If he played on a legit contender, he would be in the MVP discussions every year.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

JohnGTfan, regarding Andruw: Yes, limited options not only because he has 10-and-5 veto power, but because whatever team he goes to is going to have to negotiate a huge contract BEFORE he agrees to go there, because there’s no way he’s going to agree to a trade to go play in new surroundings in the “walk” year before what could be his last long-term, huge contract.

Don’t overstate the cold-weather thing _ he’d go to, say, Boston, I’d bet, if the offer was as good or better than other places. He knows how big baseball is there, how well he’d do in that park, etc.

But I just think if he hits the free-agent market, the Angels, Rangers, Dodgers make the most sense, because of weather, money, etc. Or the Astros, who have money and a hitters’ park. Or the White Sox. But hey, maybe even a team like the Cubs, if they’re still throwing money around like they did this winter.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Hop, you wrote: “who cares what the braves do. the only thing the braves are interested in is the bottom line.”

Fortunately for the Braves (and this blog) a lot of people care.

By KC

December 27, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

GRINCH:

You’re forgetting about your favorite artist… Billy Joel. He’s gonna be here in March. Do you already have your tickets?

By MS

December 27, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, Did you catch Tribe when they came to the Tabernacle a couple of months ago? That was like having a gold mine dropped right in your backyard out of nowhere; having them come back and tour together after all these years. It was a great show with TONS of energy. Q-Tip, Phife and Ali brought it like it was 1991.

I haven’t heard the new Ghostface myself, but i hear it is just as good as his first. He is starting to emerge as the best solo artist from the Wu, which is saying something, and no one would have believed that 5-8 years ago (with Meth, Red, and ODB getting so much love.)

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Mitchie-san, in case no one else pointed this out since you posted: LaRoche does not have a ranch in Texas. Chipper does. Josh Beckett does. Others do. LaRoche has 2,100 acres outside Fort Scott, Kan., a long way from Texas.

Joe Fan, came down to My Morning Jacket and Wilco live albums, and I flipped a coin. Can’t believe there were so many good live albums this year (including the Sadies, which, to me, is the best of them). Usually you can go years without a decent live album being released.

Anyway…yes, definitely one of my favorites of ‘06, the MMJ Okonokos double-live album (and that’s the other thing, all these live albums mentioned were two-CD sets).

Got the DVD of Okonokos for Christmas. Haven’t watched it yet, but heard it’s great.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’ve got a story you might appreciate:

My three-year old daughter wanted a puppy to play with, so considering the fact the she is the boss, I gave in and got her a rat terrier. When we asked her what she wanted to name her new puppy, she responded out of no-where without hesitation, “Johhny Cash.” So that’s what we went with. Now I’ve got a dog named Johnny Cash (doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue real easily for a pet name), and a three-year old running around the house singing “Orange Blossom Special.”

The life……

By Shaun

December 27, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

I saw Jet a few weeks ago at the 99X Mistletoe Jam. They are a fun band. Just good ol’ raw rock music with attitude.

Also AFI was pretty amazing at that show. AFI has come a long way since their days as a screaming, hardcore punk band.

The Killers were cool a couple of weeks ago, too. The front man reminds me a lot of Freddy Mercury. And the drummer looks like Earl from My Name is Earl. Queen meets Talking Heads meets Depeche Mode.

By no chop zone

December 27, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Another year with no chanting and chopping is looming in 2007. What is a Braves fan to do? No Leadoff hitter, no speed to speak of and Smoltz is a splitter away from arm surgery. It looks like the Mets will win the division and the Phillies come in second. The Braves will fight it out with the Marlins for third.

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

DOB, a fellow GT fan corrected me on LaRoche. I was thinking about Chipper. My bad.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

I’d be going hunting in Kansas with LaRoach if I was Chipper(massive bucks). Much more attractive than the small-bodied, large-racked bucks in Texas, but this is Chipper we’re talking about. Journalist Jimmy Smith, feel free to insert your Hooter’s joke now.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

Morning, all! DOB, while I am indeed a tough critic and a dinosaur in almost all my tastes, I must admit the vast majority of cd’s I’ve aquired in the last year involved music from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. The Cash set is the only “new” one I purchased and I do like it quite a bit. Last night I was just being frumpy. I still haven’t heard DBT’s or 90% of the bands you’ve brought up, and right now I’m in a bit of a financial bind so it’ll probably be a while before I do. But yeah, if you looked at my music collection you’d probably think I was at least your age, as opposed to some young whippersnapper into bling and slangin’ rocks…:-)

Scalp ‘em, that sandwich sounds like it would almost be worth driving to Birmingham for. Must be lunch time.

BTW, I’ve downloaded Mozilla Firefox and last night on the old blog it was taking no more than about 10 seconds (right before it was taking about 70-80 seconds). It’s instant now.

By Lew

December 27, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

Now Now, Y’all-Everyone’s running around getting all worked up again. Must be the post-tryptophan mania, now that the turkey’s out of everyone’s system. DOB-Grinch must be granted allowances-he leads a sheltered life. He’ll appreciate newer music when I send him the new Grace Potter cd. Now baseball lunacy-ANDRUW IS NOT GOING TO BE TRADED!!!!!!!!!Stop it, y’all-It just isn’t going to happen and you never know-he may end up retiring as a Brave. Next point-The best way to get TW to sell to an individual instead of a corporation is NOT to boycott the team. Try calling Bud Selig, who can actually veto the deal. He keeps talking about non-corporate ownership. Call him on it. Now Gonzalez-Yes, he has pitched in a small market. Atlanta is not that much bigger, We just have a bit more of a winning tradition in recent years. If he were to come here and pitch the 7th, he would get more than enough practice throwing in those “pressure packed” situations in that rough bastian of baseball fandom, Hotlanta. By the time Wicky leaves he will be just fine for ater innings. Carry on fellow lunatics. I have pontificated.

By Shaun

December 27, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

no chop zone,

Yep, how did the Braves score the second most runs in the league with no speed last season? How did the Oakland A’s of the late 1990’s/early 2000’s consistently finish in the top four in the league in runs scored with such horrible speed? Speed is so important.

By Pete H

December 27, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

If you like these CD’s, you should check out a band from the Silver Lake neighborhood in Los Angeles called the Silversun Pickups. Their new cd is called “Carnavas.” There’s also a band called “Irving” from the same music scene that’s also worth a listen.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, that’s a beautiful story. For short, you could call the dog “J.R.”

Hey, two things on this date in history:

In 1941, Braves mascot Chief Nokahoma is born.

In 2001, Mets trade Kevin Appier (47 wins during 1999-2001) to Anaheim for Mo Vaughn, who’s owed about $50 mill over the next three years. Not such a good trade for the Metropolitans.

By huck5

December 27, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Dave - Love the blog, however, two things.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I like your description of The Killers more than I like the actual band….

Hillbilly, that “deer” differential was hilarious.

By eware

December 27, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, what’s your take on Dwight Yoakam? If you like him, I could use some album recommendations.

Also, some album recommendations for Jessi Colter and Waylon.

The Santa “iTunes” Claus was good to me this year.

By Shaun

December 27, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Yeah, The Killers aren’t really my style. But I can see why a certain type of odd but interesting people would be into them.

By Alan

December 27, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

All of this nonsensical trade talk continues to crack me up. Now Brandon McCarthy is the second coming of … well, a young Tim Hudson. Based on what? His resume is spotty at best. Same goes for Hayden Penn and Chris (I’m not even sure if that’s his first name) Ledzema and so many other names being thrown around. Adam LaRoche had a terrific season, and he’s improved every year so far. He figures to keep improving. Plus, he’s very affordable. We have to take JS at his word, namely that he’s not going to make a trade just to make a trade. He’ll only trade if the deal makes the team better NOW. That’s the same reason why he won’t trade Hudson just for prospects - which will weaken the Braves in the short term. Now, if the Braves can trade Adam for a leadoff hitter (who ideally also is a second baseman), such as C. Figgins or B. Roberts, AND a young pitcher (such as H. Penn), IMO that will improve the team in the short term and in the longer term. I’ve rethought my earlier negative reaction to a trade with the Yankees. Melky Cabrera had a very good season last year (including a strong OBP) and Scott Proctor (who’s younger than I thought - just 30) also had a good season. That wouldn’t be bad, although I still think it’s not enough for LaRoche. Adam could really thrive in Yankee Stadium with that short right-field porch. He’d also thrive at Camden Yards. I read somewhere yesterday that an unnamed “rival GM” was surprised that the Orioles’ owner, Peter Angelos, nixed the LaRoche/Giles-for- Roberts/Penn trade, which he said “clearly favored” Baltimore. BTW, I also doubt that the Braves will trade Andruw this off-season for the same reason stated earlier: No proposed trade would even remotely improve the Braves in ‘07. If JS means what he says about trying to win now, Andruw has to stay put, as do Hudson and LaRoche.

By ppaddy123

December 27, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, I posted this question for you earlier. Have you heard anything about JD DREW failing his physical with the RED SOX? I live in Valdosta, DREW’s hometown. A co-worker of mine goes to the same church as DREW’s parents. He says he overheard parts of a conversation about the physical, and he “thinks” they said he failed. Drew is a very talented player, but he has never showed passion for the game. He treats it like a job.

By Efrim D

December 27, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, please explain to all that Tex is a far better bet for the future than Laroche. The Braves would be lucky to acquire Tex and McCarthy for Laroche and Hudson.

By CC Rider

December 27, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

I would just like to put my 2 cents worth on the current trade forum. 1. I would explore trading Andruw. A return would have to include young pitching (Angels Santana, Saunders: Boston Lester Hansen: Dodgers Elbert, G.Miller, Broxton) and this trade for pitching would be setup to satisfy the Devil Rays needs for Baldelli or to bolster our future rotation. If, the trading of Andruw is not doable, then we have to try to win this year. Our needs 2nd base, leadoff and to a lesser extent leftfield. The first call would be to the Yankees. They have started to try and rebuild their farm system (young pitching from Detroit for Sheffield and likely the same when they trade Randy Johnson), lets send them a replacement for the aging Jorge Posada in Salty, an outfielder with hitting ability with minor league options left in Diaz which would allow them to resign Bernie Williams and have Diaz in case of injury and if needed a backup bullpen pitcher Paronto also in case of injury. we would get back M. Cabrera to play leftfield and bat leadoff. The second move would be to send Laroache to Pittsburgh along with Langerhans for Gonzalez and Nady ( mid level prospect might need to be included) Nady would be the righthanded bat to platoon with Thorman and be a backup outfielder. Gonzalez would be our future closer or great trade bait for a young starter ( J.Lester? if healthy). Lineup: M.Cabrera,Renteria,Chipper, Andruw,McCann,Franceour,Thorman/Nady,Aybar. Rotation: Smoltz,Hampton,Hudson,James,Davies or Cormier or Villareal. Bullpen: Wickman,Gonzalez,Soriano,McBride,Boyer,Yates and probably Villareal. Bench: Nady, B.Pena. K.Johnson Woodward and Orr. I believe the lineup, bullpen and rotation are good enough to win a WS. The bench might need a mid season adjustment. Thoughts?

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Well I am flying out of Japan this morning(its 0400 here) to come home to ATL for leave. I am looking forward to my 16 hour flight.(kidding) I cant wait to be home. I hope everyone has a safe New Years!

By BamaBrave

December 27, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Congrats, DOB…the sixth paragraph of your article made SI’s online Truth and Rumors list. You may not care, but at least a few more people across the nation will understand the Braves’ intentions more clearly.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

Have a safe flight, Mitchie-san. Here’s hoping they don’t force you to watch a bunch of watered-down chick flicks.

Hillbilly, my second to last ex-girlfriend lives in Houston. She fits that description and I’ll be damned if I’m going hunting in that state again (you completely forgot to include the personality part that goes along with them).

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 27, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

(With apologies to Grinch, the undisputed king of the Script Writers on this blog)

Text from the script of “Uh, A Huntin’ We Will Go”.

Chipper: Hey Roachie, look, uh, there’s a 8 point that just walked into the field. Roachie: Huh? Chipper: A deer man, its, uh, taking the bait. Roachie: Oh yeah, man, that’s beautiful - one of God’s creatures - its great to be in woods, isn’t it? Chipper - Shoot the damned buck man - we’re out here to hunt - we ain’t no, uh, Audobon types!! Roachie: Oh yeah - forgot we’re hunting - I didn’t take my ADD meds this morning, and I’m having a hard time staying focused. Chipper: Take the damned shot man!! Its your turn!! Roachie: Shot? No Chip, I take pills for my ADD - I left them back at the ranch. Chipper: Oh for God’s sake, RoachClip - I came out here to kill something, and if you won’t shoot, then I will!! Roachie: No, no, no - I’ll take the shot - hang on. Chipper: My God, you missed by a mile - now the buck’s long gone. Roachie: No, I didn’t miss - that was an incredible shot - I took that pine cone off the tree from 100 yards! Chipper: Adam, we’re deer hunting - remember? Roachie: Huh? Chipper: Deer hunting??? Why else would we be freezing our butts off out here? Roachie: Deer hunting? Oh yeah - I forgot, hand me another beer. Chipper: OK - here. What do you think about all this trade talk? Roachie: (pop,pfffttt, opening beer) Trade what? Guns? I like mine better. And I’m not trading you my beer - yours is almost empty. Chipper: Never mind…(pause) uh, hope you like grinders, man, cause I, uh, hear you’re going to be in Pittsburgh next year. Roachie: They’ve got grinders up there? I love those little monkeys they’ve got on a string holding the cup! Chipper:

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

bob dole is from kansas. does bob dole hunt at laroche’s ranch? we must contact bob dole and ask bob dole. and what is the name of ranch laroche? surely the bloggers must have some suggestions. double dose? double dribble? double trouble? double play (laroche may be sensitive about this one)? double up? oh, the humanity! not with chipper there! now, journalist jimmy smith does not mean to take lightly the serious business of a huntin’. imagine both laroche and uh, chipper in the woods with high powered weapons. hillbilly is right that the deer in kansas are much preferred over the deer in texas. big bottoms abound. and when will chipper be slinging some deerskin? seems natural to manufacture and autograph some deerskin baseball gloves (portion of proceeds to charity - portion to uh, chipper). deerskin shoes, cap, belt. and whatever became of carolina lady and john deeere? much to consider. double dorothy? double toto? double indemnity? double cross? double slice? double bubble? no, that’s chipper. oh, the humanity!

By Mitchie-san

December 27, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Thanks Grinch, hopefully I will sleep through most of them!

By Cowboy Bob

December 27, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

I work on a ranch and don’t take kindly to all this garbage talk about huntin’ and stuff. If God didn’t mean for us to thin the herd He never woulda given us gunpowder. You Bambi-loving citified yokels know nuthin’ about huntin’. To learn more about thinnin’ the herd with high powered weaponry contact the Double Dime Ranch and ask for the $15,000 introductory package to huntin’. Potted meat and crackers in every welcome kit. Vienna sausages by request. Wings no longer served at this location.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

anyone who slides into third base like jose guillen did a couple seasons back should know that chipper can field dress a buck with a pocket knife.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

I like that, Scalp…definitely has potential. I bet that would be some scintillating conversation, indeed. Speaking of which, Journalist Jimmy Smith interviews Bob Dole would be the third person masterpiece of the year.

JJS: Mr. Dole, does the ED medicine that Bob Dole takes actually work? This journalist understands this issue is sensitive, but this journalist is not afraid to ask the difficult questions.

Bob Dole: Bob Dole understands journalist Jimmy Smith, and is not embarrassed. Bob Dole has been taking this medicine for several years now and is happy to report that Bob Dole is performing as well as ever. Just ask Mrs. Dole how Bob Dole is doing, and she’ll be delighted to respond.

JJS: And this journalist must note that the pencil Bob Dole has in his hand is perfectly straight. This journalist thanks Bob Dole for agreeing to this interview. For Journalist Jimmy Smith, this is journalist Jimmy Smith reporting live from the Dole mansion. Now, baseball…

By TLJ

December 27, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

I have read the possible trade scenario’s invovling AJ. I do not think he will be traded nor do I want him to be traded but I think it is very possible. I know he is a 5/10 player and has veto power of a trade.

What are the pros and cons of a trade now as opposed to him being a free agent next year.

Free Agency (Pros): 1) Bidding war for his services 2) Huge contract 3) Choice of teams

Trade This Year (Pros) 1) Bidding war for his services 2) Huge contract 3) Choice of teams

Free Agency (Cons): 1) Injury
2) Market Value

Trade This Year (Cons) 1) Playing final year with Braves

There are probably 4 to 6 teams next year that will be able to afford Andruw next year. The Braves could give Andrew and his agent Scott Boras permission to discuss a contract with other clubs, if a deal was struck then the braves would attempt to work out a trade. This way Andruw would have all of the advantages he would have after his free agency year.

If he plays his final year with the Braves he could be injured and may not get a great contract. It is also possible the market may not be the same next year. The teams are spending money from the TV contract recently signed. Several years ago several players ( A. Rodriguez, M Ramirez, M. Hampton, etc) all signed large contracts. The next year the teams would not offer those kind of contracts. So it is possible the market could not be the same.

Bottom line is AJ could enjoy all of the benefits as a free agent without taking any of the risk.

Is this likely, probably not but it’s something he might consider.

By Paul

December 27, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

New Modest Mouse album should be out soon…got very good reviews. Do you like the band Dave? If Andruw didnt have his 10 and 5 status, he would have been traded already.

By snowball's chance

December 27, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Berigan, Thanks for the Browser advice. What a difference.

By Paul

December 27, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

New Modest Mouse album should be out soon…got very good reviews. Do you like the band Dave? If Andruw didnt have his 10 and 5 status, he would have been traded already.

By Carolina Lady

December 27, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

Berigan, I’m in your debt for the advice on the new browser! So much less aggravation! :-))

A belated Merry Christmas to each of you!

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

yes, that is a good observation, grinch. bob dole does speak in third person, doesn’t bob dole? perhaps grinch can entice dob to do a third person blog. it would go a long way with wendell wurlitzer and the wurlitzer selection committee.

now, let’s say you get involved in a scuffle in a hotel (maybe a bar - maybe a lobby - maybe an elevator) and you gain the advantage and are just ready to do some field dressin’ when hotel security shows up. do you (1) fold your knife quietly and defer to security, or (2) slice and dice and get sued later?

now, baseball … some of these trades sound pretty good. journalist suggests the braves re-sign brian jordan as trade bait. maybe could get pujols or somebody in a package.

By Ken Strickland

December 27, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

It’s been a while since I’ve posted. If we are concerned with the structure and long term successs of the team, we should trade AJones, not LaRoche. Trading LaRoche would do longterm damage to our team. Let me explain. Both players are proven commodities, with Jones in the 45-55 homer, 100+RBI range, and LaRoche is in the 35-45, 100+RBI range. If we trade LaRoche, we lose his production this yr, and Jones’ production next yr. How do you replace 200+RBI’s and 90-100 potential homers, not to mention the DEF.

If we only traded Jones, we’d still have LaRoche’s production, plus we still get what we need. With our self-imposed salary cap, and our salary structure, we can’t outbid other teams for Andrew. If we get a CF in a trade that leads off, we’d still be strong. With a lineup of: CF- ?, SS-Renteria, 3B-Chipper, 1B-LaRoche, RF-Francour, C-McClain, LF-Diaz/?, 2B-?, we could compete with anyone. We’d have good starting pitching, a solid bullpen, more speed, good DEF, good power throughout the lineup, and fewer strikeouts. What do you think?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 27, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

KC:

Don’t know if your comment to Grinch about Billy Joel was made tongue in cheek or not. I’m a huge fan of Billy.. Have everything he ever recorded on album, tape and/or CD. Many “purists” dismiss him as a songwriter, saying he’s too commercial, panders to the crass radio market, etc. One thing about Joel was certain - you always knew from his albums what kind of mood he was in, and/or what concerned him at the particular point in time. His lyrics could always be understood, were witty or otherwise told a story, and his musical compositions and arrangements were always top notch. He never shied away from any musical style, though not everything he did “hit the mark”. The piano intro to “Prelude/Angry Young Man” stands, along with Townsend’s guitar riff intro to “Eminent Front”, and Page’s intro to “Dancin Days”, as my all time favorites.

And, I have broken my vow that I would never pay $100 per ticket (“convenience fee” from the ticket nazis included). I’ll be there to see him when he comes through my town in February.

By Alan

December 27, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em, great story about Chipper and LaRoche! You and Grinch should collaborate on a screenplay.

CC Rider, your proposed trade with Pittsburgh has some merit. Except, instead of Langerhans (Pirates don’t need another lefthanded hitter), I’d throw in a relief pitcher such as Paronto. Gonzalez and Nady would be good additions for the Braves. Your deal for Melky Cabrera, however, would never fly. That would be a steal for the Braves. I have a feeling that Adam will end up in the Bronx (lots of deer in Central Park, I hear) with Melky and Proctor moving to Turner Field.

Once again, Andruw should go nowhere - certainly not for the no-names being floated around here.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Eware, Yoakum’s great in my book. One of the only true-to-the-spirit country singers under 50. Love the voice, attitude, and always has great band behind him.

I’d start with “Last Chance for A Thousand Years,” his greatest hits from the 90s. Excellent stuff.

“Just Lookin’ for a Hit” is the older greatest-hits, and you should have both.

Among the non-greatest hits albums, he’s got several that are terrific, including “Buenas Noches From A Lonely Room,” “Guitars, Cadillacs, etc.”, “Tomorrow’s Sounds Today,” “Dwight’s Used Records,” “Hillbilly Deluxe” and “This Time.”

Jessi Colter _ get her greatest hits, with the incredibly hot photo of her on the cover. Got all her best stuff, including duets with Waylon. And “Out of the Ashes,” which came out a year or so ago, is quite good.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Oh, and as for Waylon. Hell, you can’t go wrong with his early stuff. All of it’s great, and a couple he did in the last decade were also excellent, if largely overlooked.

His “Greatest Hits” is solid top to bottom. Make sure it’s the real one, not some crap thrown together late on a cheap label.

Other Waylon must-have CDs:

“Wanted! The Outlaws” with Willie Nelson, Jessi and Waylon.

“Waylon & Willie”

“Honky Tonk Heroes” (this one’s my favorite)

“Ramblin’ Man”

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

That Waylon and Willie album is definitely a good one. Love Hoss’s version of “Gold Dust Woman.”

“2003 Minus 25”

“Wurlitzer Prize” (every time Journalist Jimmy Smith mentions the Wurlitzer, This song rolls through my head.)

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

And DOB,

Old Five and Dimers is another song that Jerry Jeff Walker recorded.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

double-clutch

double-barrell

double-header

double-wide

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

double duty, double entendre, double agent, double jeopardy, and double click. double wurlitzer - if successful this year (could win - maybe not - still out for the jury - need to see some strong journalism over the next few weeks).

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

double chocolate chip cookies, double meaning, and double doors. surely, one of these must be the name of his ranch.

there were a few double k’s last season. a few double hr’s, too. double figures?

double your trouble with doublemint gum? where is bob?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

Charlie O’Brien has a hunting ranch called the Catch 22 Ranch. I think it’s in Oklahoma. I wonder what the deer are like out there??? There’s nothing like a good, wild, corn-fed white-tail…..

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

this one if for grinch: double d.

By Kentavo

December 27, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Hey D.O.B., have you checked out Ray Wylie Hubbard? “Snake Farm” is an awesome cut.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 27, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

JJS,

I was gonna say the “A Double D,” but I told myself to behave myself….

By michael

December 27, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

…double live gonzo?

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Michael, I think that’s the name of Uncle Ted’s ranch (actually, I have no idea what he calls it).

Hillbilly, some of us are completely hopeless. As for the Double wide, I think that was the ranch Chipper was in when his wife got through with him the first time.

Scalp ‘em, KC and I discussed Billy Joel off camera. Sounds like you’re a better choice to attend the show than I. Of course, all I ever heard from the man was his radio stuff, but it just ain’t my bag. Billy Thorpe, now, or Billy Squier…

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

journalist is doubly troubled that we do not know the name of adam laroche’s ranch. it should receive equal time with chipper’s double dime on this blog. there are fine pictures of adam laroche and ryan langerhans just after a huntin’ on wagonhound.com/hunting2005.html

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, yeah, but nobody does “Old Five and Dimers Like Me” quite like the man who wrote it, Billy Joe Shaver.

By the way, you ever hear James Talley’s great album, “Got No Bread, No Milk, No Money, But We Sure Got A Lot Of Love”? They rereleased it last year on CD, 30th anniversary of its original release, remastered with a long interview with him on a separate CD.

Classic Southern country/blues album, recorded at Hound’s Ear Studios in Nashville (He’s an Okie who moved to Tennessee, big Jimmie Rogers influence in his music, etc. Great, great songwriter.)

Cover is a black-and-white photo of him with his pregnant wife and their little kid, leaning against a tiny grocery, “Talley’s Grocer,” in some little town, a Royal Crown Cola sign painted on the side.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

Kentavo, haven’t heard that dude’s music, but read something about him a while back. Who’s he sound like?

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

Or Billy Joe Shaver, Grinch. Billy Joe Shaver. THAT’s the man.

By TennesseePaul

December 27, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Merry Christmas all! It’s been a while since I was here… I think.
Any who, DOB thanks for the latest. Love the fast loading action. All’s I know is, I’m ready for the season to begin. And also, that picture of LaRoche on the main Braves AJC page looks like a manikin.

By KC

December 27, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Scalp em’:

I was kidding in my suggesting that Billy Joel is Grinch’s favorite (he doesn’t like him), but I myself am also a huge Billy Joel fan.

The Storm Front tour was my first concert, and I’ve been hooked on his music ever since. I think my favorite is 52nd Street, but I like pretty much all of his stuff. “…when he comes to my town” Are you not in Atlanta?

By KC

December 27, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Why is Atlantabraves.com running a “2006 season in review” feature right now?? Isn’t it a little late for that. I think most Braves fans are thinking a lot more about 2007 right now than they are 2006. What Braves fan wants to talk about that miserable season anymore. Get a clue guys (at atlantabraves.com).

By Efrim D

December 27, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

DOB, Andruw Jones for Mark Teixera straight up??? Braves then deal Laroche to Baltimore for Penn and Ray???

By br618

December 27, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

DOB..you heard Billy Joe with his son Eddie? other people you need to hear: Jimmy Hall Arc Angels Doyle Bramhall Gov’t Mule

By Ron

December 27, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, got a question for you. What you think about the Investigators to get MLB steroid names, heard it was 100 players in 2003 that tested positive for steroids. What do you think that will have on the game, probably alot of surprise names out their. You think that their is a current or past Brave that might have tested positive for steroids back in 2003.

By Efrim D

December 27, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

I agree with KC, what is the deal??? Mark Bouman better get on it and write a meaningful article.

By Lew

December 27, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Double Vision

By snowball's chance

December 27, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Any of Billy Joe Shaver’s albums are the real deal. His son plays some nice guitar behind him.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

Lew, you sound like some kind of foreigner.

DOB, I’m disgusted at myself. I’ve heard a good bit of outlaw country but for some reason I’d never heard Billy Joe Shaver. Just checked three of his songs out on youTube (old and new); good stuff. Also looked at Hank III for the first time; definitely not what I expected. He looks and sounds a lot more like Sr. than Jr. I dig the whole “hellbilly” thing. You are hereby forgiven for reccomending Nick Cave. :-)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 27, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

How about Hudson and LaRoche to the O’s for Markakis and D. Cabrera or Bedard?

Or this. Three way with the Pirates, Braves, and Red Sox. The Red Sox send Hansen and Crisp to the Pirates for Gonzales and McLouth. The Pirates then flip Crisp and Maholm or Grozelany for LaRoche. I know nobody wants Crisp but Maholm or Grozelany would be the key to the trade and without having to give up any pitching. Crisp is better suited for the NL so he may be better with the Braves.

By Jeff

December 27, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

If you want to hear something truly funny, ask Bobby Cox a question about music. 07 Braves look fantastic to me. Lots of runs scored, again. Retooled bullpen. Consistent if not spectacular starters. 06 Cardinals proof that sometimes what counts is hanging around for the right season. Braves will have that season next year. Afterwards let’s hope Andruw ends up in the AL, Bobby retires, and Pendleton manages team.

By Efrim D

December 27, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

Elvis Andrus is overrated. His numbers are terrible. Keep Escobar, he is the SS of the future, not Andrus.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I gotta picture that was in that local music mag, Stomp and Stammer, of Hank III, chewing on some straw (or meth), and grinning. And I’ve got this old studio shot of Hank Sr. I swear if you hold ‘em side by side, they look nearly identical. Like the gene skipped a generation, as far as physical appearance.

Get the Billy Joe Shaver tribute album, got guys like Steve Earle singing Shaver’s stuff. And a really poignant moment where a song’s dedicate to Shaver’s son, who OD’ed a few years back. The Shavers had been playing a lot of music together before the kid died. Sad stuff. Anyway, tremendous album, that tribute to Shaver.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

Eddie Shaver died right after the “Earth Rolls On” CD came out.

Todd Snider wrote a beautiful song about it (Snider and Eddie were great friends), called Waco Moon.

“WACO MOON”

Yellow rose, Waco moon/Quit too late, you’re gonna die too soon

Woman with a needle and silver spoon/Holed up singing the devil’s tune

Playing the blues,/Paying your dues,/Speeding your young life away

I never will get over what I heard about you/The first thing New Year’s Day

I can’t say I felt so sad/The truth is, I think I’m mad

At the selfish way you left your dad/When you know what a hard-luck time he’s had

Sleeping through/A dream come true

You just threw all that talent away/I never will get over what I heard about you/The first thing New Year’s Day

Ooh, slipping away/Ooh, New Year’s Day

I threw the phone against the wall/Falling apart when I got the call

Went out walking with the weight of it all/That’s when it hit me like a waterfall

I’m playing the blues,/Paying my due,/Speeding my young life away.

I never will get over what I heard about you/The first thing New Year’s Day.

Ooh, slipping away/Ooh, New Year’s Day

Yellow rose, Waco moon/Quit too late, you die too soon

To the bitter end, tried and true,/Goodbye old friend, we’ll be missing you

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

double time, double double toil and trouble. now, baseball trades … what if the braves package orr, pena, and prado to the dodgers for betemit? now, bowl games will soon be upon us. what is the perfect snack for the bowl games? hot? cold? beer is a given. no need to answer beer. or root beer. everyone will drink some root beer, right? okay, who’s up?

By Bobby

December 27, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

If I could pick the perfect snack I know what it would be. My idea of the perfect snack is just at the tip of my finger. I can reach in and pull one out and snack away - or sometimes just put one under the table for later. That’s how I enjoy snacking during the bowl games. I look forward to hearing from you.

By The Stranger

December 27, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

Addendum to David O’Brien, Musical Genius, Best of 2006 Playlist:

1) Michael Franti & Spearhead, “Yell Fire” (Doesn’t matter if you love war & hate reggae, this album will make you bust moves you didn’t even know you had.)

2) The Black Keys, “Magic Potion” (Special thanks to DOB & The Man in Black Blog for highlighting the hardest rocking band in the history of Akron, Ohio.)

3) JJ Cale & Eric Clapton, “The Road to Escondido” (perhaps a bit too mainstream for most here, but the tracks with JJ Cale are worth noting.)

4) Ben Harper, “Both Sides of the Gun” (It was a banner year for Protest Music, and this is a nice follow-up to Prine’s “Fair and Square” & McMurtry’s “Childish Things” - both 2005 releases.)

5) Kelly Joe Phelps, “Tunesmith Retrofit” (I know people like to picture the immortal Kurt Cobain in all his strung-out glory when they think of the great Pacific NW music scene, but Kelly Joe Phelps is a lot closer to personifying the culture and attitude of the present-day region.)

These are not the 5 best albums released in 2006, just 5 great albums that I believe deserve a little love.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

Good stuff, Dave. Also, what’s Steve Earle’s best live alblum? I downloaded a live version of “Ft. Worth Blues” where he starts out saying “This is for Townes.” Then it’s the song and it goes right into another one that sounds similar. But since I didn’t pay for it, I don’t know what alblum it’s from.

Jimmy Smith, the level of snack depends on the level of bowl game. For the Vaseline Intensive Care Bowl at Boise, chips and dip will do fine. For the Gator Bowl, one must consume whatever people in West Virginia consume as we must root for them over Ga Tech. Georigia’s Bowl (and the BCS Bowls) warrant slaughtering and roasting a pig. Or sacrificing a bull to the gods.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

Well, the menu tonight is a Hawks game, a Thrashers game and Fla-state/UCLA. Think I’m fixin’ to whip up some stir-fry.

By Carolina Lady

December 27, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

The only ‘bowl games’ I know about are the ones I play after Thanksgiving and Christmas - getting them all into the refrigerator! :-))

By BungHoleBugler

December 27, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

Adam LaRoche’s ranch is known as the A Double D.

By TK

December 27, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this

DOB have you heard any news on John Thomson? If you did trade Davies. Not a bad guy to get for your 5th starter if healthy. I would also hope the Braves look at getting Zack Greninke of the Royals. The kid has a lot of potential that got rushed to the majors. He has never had a Smoltz type vet to teach him the ropes. The kid can flat pitch. He just needs a change of address like Brandon Phillips did with the Reds last year.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 27, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this

emerald nut bowl is an easy one. bowl of nuts.

By Eric

December 27, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

I like the question about John Thompson. He could add depth/insurance to the rotation and was willing to pitch out of the bullpen last year - maybe he would again if the projected 5 are all healthy. Or do we suspect Villareal and Cormier are the depth and insurance to the rotation? If we signed him, would James or Davies become expendable - possibly for Baldelli?

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

Stranger, I’ve heard nothing but great stuff about that Franti/Spearhead album. He’s an intense dude, Michael Franti. Very political, very intelligent and passionate about it. Serious dude, kinda like Zach from Rage.

It was very hard to leave off Magic Potion from my 25, since Black Keys are definitely one of my favorite bands. But despite some critics calling it their best, I just don’t think so. It’s great, don’t get me wrong. But I like their earlier stuff and I also like Chulahoma even more than Magic Potion. Chulahoma is the CD they did of Junior Kimbrough blues covers. Their bluesiest CD to date. Hard blues. Anyway, certainly wouldn’t argue it’s not one of the best 25 of the year.

GRINCH, he’s got 4 or 5 live albums, I think, but the two I’ve got, both of them great: “Together at the Bluebird Café,” which he did with Townes Van Zandt and Guy Clark, taking turns doing acoustic gems, and “Just An American Boy,” which is great overview of his whole career, with his full-tilt rockin’ band.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

I agree Thompson would be a good option when healthy, but I think I heard someone’s already signed him. Not sure, though.

BHB, classic post at 8:25.

By Don

December 27, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

Not talking about him personally (I’m sure he is a fine man), but as a baseball pitcher, Thomson is a bag of garbage, has been and always will be. I’d rather Cox pitch Villareal/Cormier any day than this jabroni.

By brian

December 27, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

DOB - what do you think of the Rangers move for McCarthy? I think that guy has all the tools to be a #1 or 2 starter for years to come. If the Rangers are looking to try and make a move for Andruw or try and move Teixiera for Tejada has been rumored (and want LaRoche at 1B) he would have to get JS attention as part of a package wouldn’t he?

I agree with Robert that I think something big is brewing or being explored especially regarding Andruw - but it will have to help us now and in the future.

In regards to an earlier post, I don’t care if we had Santana and McCarthy, I still would not include James in a trade for Baldelli. James would be untradeable in my book. I would love to have James and McCarthy in the Braves rotation though - great for now, and what a future #1 and 2 starters for the Braves (Glavine and Maddux/Smoltz!)

By joe brave

December 27, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

having M.Texiera over A.LaRoche would be like having king kong aover Barney Fife!!! wtf? some of you guys never cease to amaze me!!! and while there may be some truth to the rumors, i doubt that any of them will happen. but I would rejoice if J.S could pull ol Tex outta hia hat!!! andWil Ledezma is a 25 yr old with a 92-95 mph fastball lfety that struck out 39 in 60 innings,who wouldn’t want him.

By Wayne in Utah

December 27, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Thomson (no P)

Seattle had their eyes on JT early on, but I have not heard anything since the meetings. I too like his stuff and makeup. Would be a nice fallback 5th starter option.

By Ron

December 27, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, what about Korn and Godsmack! You gotta love them, you like them DOB?

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 27, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

Thought I had posted this earlier, but for some reason, it never came up on the blog - could it be the blogpolice culled me?? Anyway, here it is again.

DOB - saw your factoid regarding the creation of Nokahoma in 1941. Could be karma, as I mentioned in an email to Grinch earlier today I’m all for bringing him back. Those of us who have been Braves fans for a long time (e.g., 1966 on) remember the Chief well. In 1983, Bob Horner broke his wrist during a game against the Pads. The Bums were scheduled to come in next. The Ted, smelling a sell out, ordered Nokahoma’s teepee removed to allow for the sale of more seats. This was just the latest of what Braves fans began to call the “Chief Nocahoma Jinx”. Everytime the teepee came down, something bad happened. Of course, back in those days, all Braves fans knew the only thing that had to happen for something bad to happen to the Braves was for them to take the field (1982 excepted, until we got to the playoffs and got scorched by the Cards in 3). Anyhow, thanks for the meaningless (to most, but important to me) trivia.

KC - I share your admiration of BJ. I live in Birmingham, so he’s going to be here in late February. I never figured Grinch to be a fan of his - Grinch is more the C J McCall type - sittin in his chair, pretending he’s grinding the gears, being the Rubber Duck, and we got us a convoy, boys!!!!

This time of year is all about top ten news stories, top ten sports moments, top ten this, top ten that. I propose that us bloggers identify his/her favorite line, etc. from one of DOB’s many blogs over the past several months, or comment from a blogger. I’ll start it - this is my favorite, from DOB’s July 7 blog.

*By David O’Brien | Friday, July 7, 2006, 02:15 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

When I got an e-mail about the Eddie Guardado-for-Travis Chick trade yesterday, I only wished I had been working so I could write this:

It’s been a rapid career decline for Eddie Guardado, the former All-Star closer who lost his job to a Putz and was traded for a Chick.

(Ba-da-bum. Thank you. You’re too kind.)*

Classic humor - that, along with the fact that David is there with the Braves, everyday, and shares so much info here, is what got me hooked and has kept me coming back almost daily. Keep up the good work David.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

I like Godsmack, not Korn so much. Did anyone see that Thrashers game? That was awesome. The Thrashers and Penguins are about as even a match as could be wished. Now we’re 13 games over .500. I only hope the Braves can say that at some point next year.

By Ace

December 27, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

Scalp-Em Braves: I don’t think anything could top the blogquote you mention about Putz and Chick. I bet we could dig up some gems from jimmy smith too.

By brian

December 27, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Braves will not get Teixiera. We don’t have the pieces to acquire him and we do not need anymore of Boras’s clients looking to break the bank

By Ron

December 27, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

All I hear is people talkin about the payroll, it is 80 million. The Pirates, Rockies, A’s, DevilRays, Marlins, and so many others would love that kind of payroll, heck if the A’s got that kind of a payroll they might win the World Series every year. Everybody just shut up about the payroll. We won in 2005 with that payroll. Everybody hates aol, nobody knows what Liberty Media will do, they just want the Braves for a tax-off. Heck they may be ten times worst than Time Warner. If it is truly a tax write off then they want care how good the Braves are. They may make the payroll 10-20 million Total in the next 5 years, who knows. And hardly no money into the Farm System. That would tear the franchise into pieces, then the Braves would be a possible contraction team. Dont think that will happen, but dont like the tax off at all. Lets be thankfull for the 80 million.

By Maxx

December 27, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

Hey good call on The Black Lips - Let it Bloom. Those guys are killer. They’re comin out with a new album fall of ‘06 that’s gonna be earthshattering so listen up for that one.

By Steve

December 27, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

I would stand pat unless I could get Baldelli for anything less than James. Now onto the important things in life: my top albums of all time Van Halen Night Songs-Cinderella Led Zeppelin IV Appetite for Destruction-GNR

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 11:21 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em, you’re too kind. Thanks much _ for reading and posting, more than for that comment.

Please, let’s keep the subject steered away from me. The denizens are going nice and smooth here the past couple days, talking about trades, music, Chipper, LaRoche, Double-D (ranch), etc, etc. Please don’t tempt a barrage of painful posts from someone by asking about yours truly. I think you can probably figure out what I mean.

Thanks.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

Ron, Korn and Godsmack don’t quite do it for me. But I can certainly see where they’d do it for younger head-bangers than my old a$#. Generation thing, probably. I’d imagine you’re probably not into Tom Waits, right? It’s all good.

By David O'Brien

December 27, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

Joe Brave, I’m with you on the Teixeira talk. Where the hell did all this start, anyway? Oh, well. No harm in folks dreaming about it.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em; damn straight. I drove a Peterbilt for Gainey Transportation Services back in ‘95; I did my very best Kris Kristofferson impersonation. Of course, I also got a DUI (in a car, not the truck) after about 6 months and that was that. I changed careers about every 90 days back then. Yup, now it’s time to listen to the Highwaymen. Lew, you still up?

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 27, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

Classic post from the irascible Grinch…

*By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 03:14 AM | Link to this

Wishing the Grinch a Merry Christmas? That’s kind of like wishing Hitler a Happy Hannukuh(sp?). Yeah, yeah, BOOOOO! Y’all know what I mean. I’m fixin’ to pass out, literally and figuratively. G’night!*

By Jeremy

December 27, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

I’ve been trying to keep away from the music talk but that’s been hard to do lately. haha Do any of you like Nickelback? How about you DOB? I’ve really been into them here lately.

By The Grinch

December 27, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Man, I’m just the epitome of tact, huh? Thanks for the refresher, dude. :-)

By Ron

December 27, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this

Tom Waits (Who??????????????????) haha.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 27, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

The earlier post had some text left out because I still haven’t figured out all the “rules” of posting. Here it is in more readable form.

Text from the movie script of “Uh, A Huntin’ We Will Go”.

(camera zooms from wide shot of Chipper’s ranch, narrowing to shot of Chipper & Roachie sitting in the shooting house, shooting beer)

Chipper: Hey Roachie, look, uh, there’s a 8 point that just walked into the field.

Roachie: Huh?

Chipper: A deer man, its, uh, taking the bait.

Roachie: Oh yeah, man, that’s beautiful - one of God’s creatures - its great to be in woods, isn’t it?

Chipper - Shoot the damned buck man - we’re out here to hunt - we ain’t no, uh, Audobon types!!

Roachie: Oh yeah - forgot we’re hunting - I didn’t take my ADD meds this morning, and I’m having a hard time staying focused.

Chipper: Take the damned shot man!! Its your turn!!

Roachie: Shot? No Chip, I take pills for my ADD - I left them back at the ranch.

Chipper: Oh for God’s sake, RoachClip - I came out here to kill something, and if you won’t shoot, then I will!!

Roachie: No, no, no - I’ll take the shot - hang on.

(Roachie shoulders gun, squints through sight, exhales, and squeezes trigger - bullet leaves gun)

Chipper: My God, you missed by a mile - now the buck’s long gone.

Roachie: No, I didn’t miss - that was an incredible shot - I took that pine cone off the tree from 100 yards!

Chipper: Adam, we’re deer hunting - remember?

Roachie: Huh?

Chipper: Deer hunting!!! Why else would we be freezing our butts off out here?

Roachie: Deer hunting? Oh yeah - I forgot, hand me another beer.

Chipper: OK - here. What do you think about all this trade talk?

Roachie: (pop,pfffttt, opening beer) Trade what? Guns? I like mine better. And I’m not trading you my beer - yours is almost empty.

Chipper: Never mind…(pause) uh, hope you like grinders, man, cause I, uh, hear you’re going to be in Pittsburgh next year.

Roachie: They’ve got grinders up there? I love those little monkeys they’ve got on a string holding the cup!

Chipper: (sigh) I’m gonna miss you man.

Roachie: You’re gonna miss me? Are you gonna shoot at me and intentionally miss?

Chipper: (sigh)

(camera zooms out from shooting house to shot of woods)

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Willie: “I was a Highwayman, along the coast roads I did ride…a sword and pistol by my side/many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade/many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade/the bastards hung me in the Spring of ‘25…but I am still alive.”

Kris: “I was a sailor, I was born upon the tide…with the sea I did abide/I sailed a schooner ‘round the horn of Mexico/went aloft to furl the mainsail in a blow…and when the yards broke of f they said that I’d been killed/but I am living still.”

Waylon: “I was a dam-builder…across a river deep and wide/where steel and water did collide/a place called Boulder on the wild Colorado/slipped and fell into the wet concrete below/they buried me in that great toomb that knows no sound…but I am still around.”

Johnny: “I’ll fly a starship, across the universe divide/and when I reach the other side/I’ll find a place to rest my spirit if I can/perhaps I may become a highwayman again/or I may simply be a single drop of rain…but I will remain, and I’ll be back again, and again, and again, and again…MAN THAT’S GOOD STUFF.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 28, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Yo Grinch - we all have our finest moments late at night :>)

By Ron

December 28, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

DOB, I know where all this Texiera trade rumors are coming from. Mlbtraderumors.com Will Carrol was talkin about the story. That is where it came from.

By flbravesgirl

December 28, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

That’s our Grinch, diplomacy and discretion personified. ;-)

Scalp ‘em, he did actually wish me Merry Christmas in an email. Of course this was after I sent him the Red Velvet cake recipe so maybe that sweetened him up a little.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

Nickelback is probably great if you’re a member of Nickelback and trying to get some action. Otherwise…no offense, dude, but Nickelback is to the new millenium what Winger or Warrant was to the 80’s.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 28, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this

FBG:

You sent the Grinch your Red Velvet Cake recipe? As I recall, he wanted to abominate the recipe by adding walnuts instead of PE-CANS. What self respecting southerner would suggest doing so?? He probably made a Green Velvet Cake. On the other hand, I am a true southern cook, and would deeply appreciate the recipe for your scrumptious cake. JJS has been extolling the medicinal virtues of this cake on this blog for weeks. Can I offer a trade of one of my secret family recipes? (name it, I can cook anything, but I do draw the line at recipes for cooking possum and road kill - deleted those from the book years ago).

By the way - I think we should get the Sandwich talk going again. JJS curls his toes with cheese talk. I am the Sandwich King. LOL

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

The article yesterday from Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus:

Oh, the tease. While I can’t give specifics on the deal, there are still at least six teams involved in some discussions centering on Atlanta. The Braves are in full dump mode, trying to get something for Andruw Jones, trying to find Jones’ replacement on the cheap, and working more on the bullpen. Leo Mazzone isn’t there to build a bullpen out of dreck anymore. So how does this all work together? Why trade a young player like Andy Adam LaRoche if they’re trying to control the payroll? Why deal Jones right now rather than at the deadline? The team is determined to find a solid bullpen and think they can do it with a series of deals that include LaRoche, Mike Gonzalez, Andruw Jones, and several CF candidates that I’m told include Rocco Baldelli, Curtis Granderson, and Nick Markakis. The deals appear to also have some other big names like Tim Hudson, Mark Teixeira, and Dontrelle Willis on the periphery. The three team deal that seemed close over the weekend doesn’t seem so close now as the complexity has increased. Remember that John Schuerholz is normally a slow worker, so quiet on this front doesn’t mean that nothing is happening.

I still think Teixeira is mainly of primary interest to Baltimore for Tejada.

By Jeremy

December 28, 2006 12:23 AM | Link to this

I was born in 1988 so I wouldn’t know about guys from the 80’s. Nickelback is pretty hot for college kids right now - a group in which I am included in.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

If late night brings out the best in us, I’d hate to see the worst. :-)

Uh, oh; I’ve been exposed by FBG. Now I’ll have to come up with something offensive to redeem myself…NAH. ‘Tis the season, and all that.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em, nuts of any kind only get in the way of the icing. And anyhow, what self-respecting southerner would pull for Auburn? I’ll thank you to crawl back into that back-a*-wards hidey-hole you just poked your nose out of. :-)

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this

Jeremy; no biggie. I’m still going to college too (and started three years after you were born). It’s a great career if you can swing it. Cheap health insurance, plenty of chicks, great football, big parties, and truthfully it’s kind of fun not to be ignorant.

By flbravesgirl

December 28, 2006 12:42 AM | Link to this

Now you know I’m just kidding you, Grinch.

Scalp ‘em, still chuckling over the Green Velvet. Glad to hear you don’t cook possum but please feel free to come down here and get rid of the ones eating all my pineapples.

Certainly I can share the recipe. Do you want it emailed to you or just posted here? I’m afraid it will have to wait ‘til morning because I have a wicked head cold and should already be in bed.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this

Highwaymen: Good. Very good. Nickelback: Bad.

(Or so I’m told. Admission: I have no clue what they sing, but I heard 15 seconds on some Entertainment show and they sounded bad. And look like dweebs. The Highwaymen could wipe the floor with ‘em, even with half the Highwaymen dead, Kristofferson 70 years old, and Willie dazed and happy.)

Scalp ‘em: That’s some mighty fine screenwriting.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

Jeremy, I was just being a cantankerous geezer. Sorry about that. I’m sure they’re OK (maybe?) But come on, the cool college kids can’t really be into that band, right? How ‘bout Drive-By Truckers? Arctic Monkeys? Some old R.E.M.? Dude, just throw some Led Zep on, sit back and listen, and you’ll realize what we mean when we diss Nickelback.

By I Sang Dixie

December 28, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this

Sadly, DOB, Dwight Yoakam turned 50 in October. He still rocks, though.

Lefty Frizzell is a musical god who gets no props on this blog. Anyone here heard Lefty sing “The Long Black Veil,” “I Never Go Around Mirrors” or “How Far Down Can I Go?” Until you have, you’re musically impoverished.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 28, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this

Grinch:

Sounds like you are an expert on “Nuts” - nuff said, I’ll leave that one alone.

“Bass-Ackwards Hidey Hole”? I would be insulted by that comment if it came from anything other than a leg-humping UGA fan.

How in the hell did you convince FBG that you are worthy of the cake recipe? I can tell from her posts she is a lady of class and intelligence. How you pulled the wool over her eyes, and charmed that out of her, I’ll never fathom. You must have two or more personalities. Say goodnight, Sybil.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this

Its 11:50 right now time to go to bed. But first Grinch, what is up with you, Nickelback is almost as good as Godsmack and Korn almost, dont diss Nickelback dude. You must be an old timer am I right, especially talkin about the 80’s.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 28, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this

FBG - thanks for the offer of the recipe - email to wilsdav@charter.net. Recipe will be faithfully followed, and lovingly baked - unlike Grinch, who probably tried to cook it on the grill.

Hope the wicked witch of head colds is cast away tonight. Sweet dreams.

By Mmm-Bop!

December 28, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

Hanson is the best there is, dudes!

By David

December 28, 2006 01:21 AM | Link to this

Nickelback is my favorite band these days. This is why there are 17 brands of ketchup at the store.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 01:23 AM | Link to this

Good night, Sybil. So THAT’s where I screwed up…I used mesquite charcoal instead of plain old hardwood on that cake. Took forever to scrape the grill clean. Now, charm…the Grinch can surprise most folks.

FBG, you have a possum eating your pineapples? Now THAT would be a possum worth eating. My great-grandaddy used to catch them and keep them in a pen for a week and feed them sweet corn to clean ‘em out. Tasty. So I hear.

Ron, I’m 33. Depending on who you ask I act an awful lot younger, or an awful lot older. Either way, I don’t care for Nickelback. It’s not that they’re untalented; in fact, some of their stuff is kind of catchy. But that’s my point; it’s purposefully commercial and that just ain’t my speed. When I’ve got more energy I’ll put out my “favorites” list, in case anyone gives a hoot (or not; don’t really care…:-))

By TheSiberianJackAss

December 28, 2006 01:50 AM | Link to this

Man this blog is runnin’ smoother than greased cat$hit off a hot tin roof!—but something’s missin’!!!…

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 01:58 AM | Link to this

I Sang Dixie

Hey, wait a minute, what’s wrong with the over 50 crowd. We still rock like we used to, just a bit slower. Besides, we gave you Led Zep and all those great 70’s groups. I am ok with almost all kinds of music, but some of the names of these bands sound like designer drugs or something…..

My new baseball player I am hoping for (by packing AJ) is Markakis. He and Ray would work out great for AJ.

By kinley

December 28, 2006 01:59 AM | Link to this

Man, I’m 22, and Nickelback is horrible. For Christ’s sake, they’re so uncreative they rehashed “How You Remind Me” into a later song.

I may have been born in ‘84, but I’ll take the Stones, Zeppelin, Skynyrd, Pink Floyd and a hundred other bands from back in the day (including the Bee Gees and even Elton John) over Nickelback

By kinley

December 28, 2006 02:07 AM | Link to this

And by the way, to the guy who said Nickelback is popular with college kids:

The only time I ever heard ANYONE play a Nickelback song during college was to let me listen to the website that showed the rehashing I mentioned before.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 02:33 AM | Link to this

Kinley, it seems like I totally disagreed with you at one point or another (I think it was involving the Falcons) but you’ve got a solid foundation musically. Most of the 22-year olds I know listen to cd’s I’d use as pigeons for skeet shooting.

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 02:46 AM | Link to this

kinley

And don’t forget the suicide band, “Badfinger”.

Walsh also rocked with the James Gang, and who can forget Dickie Betts pickin that red guitar. Did he ever get back together with the Allman Bros?

We also gave you guys disco in the later 70’s. BeeGee’s were great. Like I said, I like all kinds of stuff. The Doobies both before and after MM are great. Not to mention, Chicago, The Eagles, Pink Floyd, The Moody Blues (gotta see them with an orchestra live). Although all of the Moody Blues members are now in their 60’s and some REALLY look it. Saw them in Greenville, SC in 2000.

For you country folk, you couldn’t beat Pure Prairie League and The Marshall Tucker Band, and what about CDB up in Tennessee.

Boy did we have some great groups back then…… I even rocked with Elton John, and while he can’t hit those high notes anymore, he still puts on a great show, and his sound system is killer (or at least it was in 1999).

By I Sang Dixie

December 28, 2006 03:18 AM | Link to this

*I can’t stand to see

A good man go to waste

One who never combs his hair

Or shaves his face

A man who leans on wine

Over love that’s told a lie

It tears me up to see a grown man cry

I never go around mirrors

I can’t stand to see me

Without you by my side

I never go around mirrors

‘Cause I’ve got a heartache to hide

And it tears me up to see a grown man cry*

— Thanks, Lefty!

By wowbobwow

December 28, 2006 06:19 AM | Link to this

DOB, you don’t have to apologize for saying that Nickelback sux. seriously.Hey,you never answered my previous question if you are aware of the Denton, TX. band called Centro-matic? If not, you should check them out. They’ve opened for the Truckers in the past and sometimes jason sits in on lead guitar. The whole project is fronted by a genius songwriter named Will Johnson. These guys have put out ten albums in ten years, plus 2 under the name of South-San Gabriel, and also 2 Will Johnson solo albums.Let me know if you need some guidance and I’ll point you in the right direction.

By D Rock in Scotland

December 28, 2006 06:25 AM | Link to this

DoB, great blog buddy. I’m a KU grad myself. Your music picks are great, but here’s some good stuff you might have missed from last year:

Robyn Hitchcock and the Venus 3, Ole Tarantula - Dude’s from England, but his backing band is basically the Minus 5 (Scott McCaughey and Peter Buck from REM)

The Minus 5, The Gun Album - Best opening line of any song ever, “I had 6 White Russians last night, and 3 of them were people”.

Bobby Bare Jr., The Longest Meow

Peter, Bjorn and John

And my favorite this year, Band of Horses.

I really enjoy the blog, keep up the good work. Maybe we should start a petition writing campaign to get Tom Waits to sing the national anthem, just a thought.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 28, 2006 07:44 AM | Link to this

DOB, do you think if the Braves were given an offer for Andruw and Andruw said he would waive his no trade clause that JS would pull the trigger?

Also, since does JS have a contingency plan in place for when Andruw leaves. Apparently, he isn’t going to get Baldelli since he won’t give up Chuck James, which I wouldn’t either?

JS still doesn’t have this dillusional thought that he will be able to resign Andruw does he?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 28, 2006 07:48 AM | Link to this

DOB, I had brought up the Texieria thing in a proposed trade that would be a three way between the Braves, O’s, and Rangers.

By joe brave

December 28, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

hey D.O.B, any chance you could give us all a late Christmas present and slap hell outta Dayn Perry the next time you see that Yankee loving IDIOT? THANKS FOR THE UPDATES MAN!by the way no one mentions the TRIBUTE TO THE ALLMAN BROS. CD IT IS THE $HIT

By Shaun

December 28, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this

joe brave,

What’s wrong with Dayn Perry? Bitter about the article he wrote?

I disagree with him also, but I think his views are pretty rational. I could see the Braves struggling in the near future (although I don’t think it will be next year) if they don’t settle their ownership issues and/or make some creative moves.

And this line doesn’t seem like the words of someone who hates the Braves. In fact, it seems like the highest praise I’ve heard any analysis give them:

The legacy in Atlanta is secure: For a decade and a half, they were the greatest non-Yankee dynasty in baseball history.

By ColumbusBuckeye

December 28, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

I find it somewhat comical that someone is bringing up Nickelback when they discuss good music. They are a bunch of overproduced, pop clowns who can play a guitar. Their music is so uninspired, I’m surprised that their albums aren’t served with a slice of cheese. Now if they would only go the Creed route and break up, the world would be a better place for not having to digest that music.

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

You stupid Americans. You have no idea how the rest of the world sees you. All this talk of Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli and Chone Figgins will rot your brains from the inside out. Red Velvet Cake - HAH!! Food for simpletons. Drive By Truckers - Hah!! More like Dried Fried Haxuals.

Baseball is a sport for the third-world and the short-of-stature far east. The Capitalist machine of the early 20th century was successful in brainwashing your pathetic grandparents into believing that the pathetic game of baseball was the pathetic national pastime of a pathetic nation.

The goal of this effort: To build a plethora of Mass Brainwashing Centers where the Overlords could lace Peanuts and Beer with a substance called confusioma. Confusioma is the driving force that compels people of seemingly non-substandard intelegence to plop down 10 dollars for parking, 180 dollars for 3 tickets, and 50 dollars for 3 hot dogs, 3 drinks and 3 orders of chips, a program and a pennant.

But fear not, simple Americans. Admitting to yourselves that you have an inferior culture centered on baseball is the first step. Your foreign liberators will help you. Football (what you idiots call soccer), Tennis, vodka and falafels will purge you of this confusioma you suffer from. And then perhaps you can join the civil
nations of the world.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Morning. Buckeye, I think the only thing we were “discussing” about Nickelback is the different ways they suck. Time to get some work done, unfortunately.

By AdirondackDave

December 28, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em Braves — Thanks for that amusing DoubleDime Ranch story. You’ve proved that some of baseball’s best moments have nothing to do with baseball.

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

What sort of nation would permit the sale of an “Orange Soda” that has no orange juice in it. Yes, it is orange colored.
But it is a fundamental marketing lie which has been infused by your overlords - the Busch Family, the Bush Family, the Carter family (yes, the peanut comglomerate), and others - that has robbed you of your ability to discern.

If you want Orange Soda, here is a recipe so simple an American could follow it. Add 1 part club soda to 1 part orange juice. And then add another part club soda. Delicious and nutritious. Refreshing, too.

By kinley

December 28, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Grinch

Thanks man, it’s all good. I’ll admit that when I was in high school I was into some pretty lame stuff now that I look back on it. But I saw the light and realized that music from the 60s/70s/80s offers so much more than the stuff of the late 90s up to now. There’s just no substance (generally speaking) in a lot of recent stuff.

Oh and by the way, for those wondering about the song rehashing I mentioned about Nickelback, here’s a link

Make sure your speakers are on

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 28, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Well, I’s thumbin’ thru the want-ads in the Shelby County Tribune when this classified advertisement caught my eye. It said “take immediate delivery on this ‘57 Chevrolet half-ton pickup truck. will sell or swap for a hide-a-bed & 35 bucks. call 1-4-0 ring 2 and ask for Bob.”

Well, I called Bob up on the telephone, and he said “Hello this is Bob speakin’.” I said ” ‘s this here the Bob got the pickup truck for sale?”

He say’s “Yeah.” I says “Where are ya?” He says, “14 East on county 12. Turn right on the one-lane gravel road. You can park ‘n the yard, beware o’ the dog, wipe yer feet off, knock three times, and bring yer billfold.”

Well I tooled on East on County 12, I turned right on the one lane gravel road ‘n I parked in the yard, ‘n a german sheppard come out ‘n grabbed a hold o’ my leg. Then I knocked three times, ‘n wiped my feet, ‘n the dog let go when the screen door opened, ‘n Bob come out ‘n said “Whaddya want?” I said “I come to see yer truck.” He said “follow me….come on Frank.” The dogs name is Frank….. ——C.W. McCall.

By rivers

December 28, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

DOB, if you are looking for a good up and coming folk singer song writer look no farther than Jonathan Byrd winner of the 2003 Kerville New Folk competition. Check him out I promise you will not be let down. Go to his website http://www.jonathanbyrd.com and you can download a few of his songs. Take a listen and let me know what you think.

By Fran

December 28, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

I cannot understand why the Braves would want to trade Adam La Rouche. He has very productive numbers and equally hits left handers and right handers. Who would takje hie=s place and offer the production that he gave last year. Offensively I believe the Brave are set except at second base with the departure of Marcus Giles. They need better starting pitching thsan they have sand with their budget constraints I do not ever see them competing as they did in the past.The Yankees and Boston are spending $millions to boster their pitching staffs and with the shortage of excellent pitchers around the Braves are not in the game any longer.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 28, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

red velvet cake is not to be trifled with. toe the line when making red velvet cake.

and now a blog survey:

the perfect grilled cheese sandwich - is it prepared on the stove, or in the oven?

american cheese slices? or some other manner of cheese?

and what can be better for any journalist than to sit back in a chair at the airport and unwrap a cheese sandwich prepared just for this eventuality?

did anyone look at the pictures of adam and ryan a huntin’? those were some big squirrels …

now, baseball … will rocco baldelli be a hunter? carl crawford? best not to mix sissies with hunters. hunters field dress and that is nasty business.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 28, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

psst. he’s back. different name, though. wonder how he and the missus are doing after all that blogging on Christmas?

By michael

December 28, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

mlb.com: “source:zito to Giants” …that’ll suck for mets fans huh?

By Lew

December 28, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

Nickleback? And DOB gives me grief about Night Ranger? At least Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson are familiar with a Guitar Solo. For Nickleback, that would require a major learning experience. Come to think of it, is there any contemporary group that realizes there are individual strings on a guitar? Many of them need to learn that they can play outside of a garage. Cold Play, Good Charlotte, A New Found Glory, etc. Between them and the Metal singers who projectile vomoit the lyrics, it’s no wonder so many of us live in the past.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Robyn Hitchcock and the Venus 3, Ole Tarantula - Dude’s from England, but his backing band is basically the Minus 5 (Scott McCaughey and Peter Buck from REM) Wowbobwow (sounds like a play on Bow Wow Wow, a very cool 80s band _ See Jungle! _ thanks and I’ll definitely look for Centro-matic at Itunes or the Paste online music store, maybe use some of these gift cards I got for Christmas to download and check ‘em out. Sounds like a band I could get into.

D ROCK IN SCOTLAND _ Rock Chalk, bro. I was in Lawrence last weekend for the KU-Boston College hoops game. Stopped by the Love Garden record store. What a great town. Always love going back.

Anyway, got some of the stuff you recommended. Love the Minus 5 Gun album, and almost put it on my list. Thought the same thing first time I heard that line: “I had 6 White Russians last night, and 3 of them were people.” Greatness.

Band Of Horses _ terrific CD. I’d put them right behind Artic Monkeys for best debut of the year.

I think My Morning Jacket play on the Bobby Bare Jr. album, no? I thought I heard they did. Anyway, I’ll have to check that out. I saw him perform with his dad in Chicago last summer. Bobby Bare Sr. put out an album I think is one of the best in the past 5 years, produced by his son. Junior’s band backed him at this show, then played a set by themselves.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Oh, and Scotland: Robyn Hitchcock’s been making great music since I was in college 20 years ago. And he’s still going strong. You’ve probably heard it, but if not look for VIVA SEA-TAC, his song from late 90s about Seattle _ “They’ve got the best computers and coffee and smack…”

By pinkygonzales

December 28, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Hey,

What about Van Hunt’s On the Jungle Floor? That album sounded like he was channelling Rick James or Prince in their prime.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Wowbobwow, sorry about pasting previous post from D Rock atop my post to you.

Anyway, to repeat: Wowbobwow _ thanks and I’ll definitely look for Centro-matic at Itunes or the Paste online music store, maybe use some of these gift cards I got for Christmas to download and check ‘em out. Sounds like a band I could get into.

By Lew

December 28, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Ten Dollars for parking? Let me know where in Boston you can find Fenway parking for $10 so I can park there next time. Try $30 and up.

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

American Cheese? There is no such thing. Look closely at wrapper. It says “Cheese Food”. Cheese food rots the brain.

Real cheese is made from fresh, real milk. It is made by an artisan and his family. It is lovingly prepared and aged to perfection. It is enjoyed by real people who know the difference between real food and industrial byproducts.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

JJS, my grilled cheese is with sour dough bread and colby-jack cheese cooked in a panini maker, but the ex did a tremendous grilled cheese using a frying pan and butter (not as healthy, but even better tasting)

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Oh my god those songs are the same. I always thought they were mighty similar, but I never heard them side by side like that. The entire band deserves chemical castration.

Jimmy Smith, medium heat skillet. Sweet cream butter. Hand sliced sharp cheddar (red or white). Texas toast, pressed flat with spatula. Yum.

Lew, what’s a guitar solo?

By rivers

December 28, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

DOB, the reason I brought up Jonathan Byrd is because the kerville music festival is the sam festival that lyle lovet and steve earle have won, and I thought you might be interested in his music.

Thanks for the hard work and even though I do not post often, I enjoy stopping by and reading about your music takes and your takes on the the fluid state of the braves.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), Braves profess hopes _ however slim _ of resigning Andruw, though I haven’t discussed it with any of them off the record since the explosion of contracts in the past month or so. I can give you a better idea after spending a week in spring training, that’s for sure. That’s when you can actually talk to people face to face, see their expressions, their rolled eyes, etc.

Like I’ve said all along, an offer for Andruw would have to blow their socks off, and Braves wouldn’t do it if it just made them better for the future but seriously undermined their chances of winning in the 2007 season.

By Lew

December 28, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Wojtek-You will not do well in this country if you deny Americans their Passteurized Processed Cheese Food. It is a staple of the American diet. It makes the best grilled cheeses sandwiches. The next thing, you’ll be telling us that Wonder Bread does not build strong bodies twelve different ways. Allow us our trans fats or we will invade your country while practicing the Bush Doctrine.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Lew, the guy’s obviously not been to a game at Fenway in the past, oh, two decades. They’re charging $50 _ yes, FIFTY _ to park a block away last time I was there, in 2005. Fortunately, got no need to rent a car there.

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

So the 5th spot in the rotation looks like it is Davies’ to lose then DOB? So that would mean Lance Cormier will continue his role as a 6th starter/ long reliever right?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 28, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Flat Griddel, butter, white bread, whatever kind of “cheese food” I have at the time. Four sandwiches makes a meal for this Hillbilly.

Now gun sizes for the hunters:

Will Chipper shoot a .300 mag?

LaRoche- .270?

Langy- .223?

Howard Johnson - 30-30?

Ted Williams - .410?

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Lew, first it has to be determined if his country has oil. If it does, then his leader suddenly becomes a threat to the American people. We can then slaughter their women and children, blow up their schools and indoor plumbing, loot their museums and rebuild it all (with our company in charge making a 10,000% profit), while teaching them to sing “Jesus loves me,” like the good little Christians they’d better become. Is it worth it to protect our pasteurized processed American cheese food? I say yes! His country can then become “Whatever its’ name was: sponsored by Nabisco.” I like it.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 28, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

A Team hunting trip would be interesting:

I wonder if Wicky uses a grunt call. Would Frenchy kill the first deer that comes close? Has Chipper ever shot a yearling buck (known as a toe-head in South Arkansas)? Would any of the bullpen pitchers rattle? Does Bobby Snort-Wheeze? Are the nose-pickins used as a cover scent? Will Reitsma have feeling in his trigger finger?

By JasonInMaine

December 28, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly: pretty funny stuff!

It appears Zito has rejected the Rangers’ offer:

Hmmm…it has been rumored that Texas has had interest in Hudson. I wonder if they do even more so now.

KC, chill, I am not advocating that we trade Hudson (: But, maybe Texas will make an offer that JS can’t refuse.

Regards

Jason

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 28, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

I’m a little surprised that none of you backwoods epicureans mentioned gilled cheese sandwiches using gov’ment cheese and stale white bread—bet that’s how you remember your first one!

By michael

December 28, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Can Chipper shoot from both sides? If so, what’re his numbers from each? Does he dip while hunting? Not good.

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Lew, your pathetic country is already following the Busch doctrine. The Busch family created Colonial Bread during your country’s prohibition era (further proof of stupid American-itis). Not only did they corrupt the American perception of what beer should taste like, they also singlehandedly crippled this country’s nutrition standard. No wonder Team USA lost its own World Baseball Classic - they were hungry.

As for parking in Boston, Lew, you have me at a disadvantage. I have never been there. I will take your word for it that there are stupid people up there willing to pay that much to park.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly (oops, I mean App. American), you’re on a role this morning. So, the young deer in Arkansas are cephalopods? Interesting. Venison or sushi….

By kinley

December 28, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

ESPN is reporting that Zito has signed with the Giants - seven years, $126 million.

I have to say I’m somewhat (pleasantly) surprised the Mets didnt get him. But even if they had, their rotation still wouldn’t be too impressive

By JasonInMaine

December 28, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

If anyone cares, it appears Zito has signed with the Giants…for $18 mill/year! That’s freakin crazy.

Regards,

Jason

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Grinch, Appalachia does not extend into Arkansas. You are still in college at the age of 33 and you are glad to be free of ignorance?

Perhaps the American Illuminati are right. Drink your Busch beer. Eat your Texas Busch toast. Go to work for Halliburton. It looks good on you.

Wojtek can make hyperbole, too. No?

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 28, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

That oughta make the Mets squirm a little bit. Wonder whose basket they will put all their eggs in now, since Zito and Schmidt are both off the Market?

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

The GIANTS signed ZITO, YAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!! GO SABEAN!!!!

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

7 years for Zito? Isn’t he like 31 or something like that already?

By JasonInMaine

December 28, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

I am guessing the Mets will target someone in a trade. They may be willing to “over pay” for someone like Dontrelle now. We all know that the Marilins like to give their best players to the Mets for next to nothing.

Regards,

Jason

By mariner

December 28, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

In light of the Zito signing, Hudson’s contract looks better and better.

By The Grinch

December 28, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Who says I was waxing hyperbolical? I could be listening to Toby Keith right now. :-)

Great news about Zito. Reckon the Mets could use Hudson? I say straight up for Jose Reyes.

By Barry Zito

December 28, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

I’ll be 29 in May, Don.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

DonC, Zito’s only 28. But yes, 7 years for ANY pitcher is insane. Can’t even get insurance for pitchers beyond three years, last I checked. You have to renew the policy after that period, and pitcher has to go through the full battery of tests again, all that, to make sure he’s still fit and hasn’t developed significant tears in shoulder, elbow, etc (believe it or not, almost every pitcher has such damage, just from the unnatural movement and workload of years and years of pitching; it’s just when they get older and those tears start to expand that it becomes a debilitating thing)

By TheSiberianJackAss

December 28, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

Wojtek Fibak—where you from boy, Bumphuck Egypt?…or just another zit-faced rich college punk spending Christmas break in your mama’s basement??…Hop back on your camel and trot your ignorant a$$ on outta here…

By Toby Keith

December 28, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Leave me out of your discussions on hyperbolic chambers. My uncle got the bends once by eatin’ too much beans, and, it was a lot of beans, and the only way to save him was too stick him in one of those things. It worked, but when he came out, he had 8 hours worth of compressed farts floatin’ in there. Uncle was immune, but it kilt the poor fella that opened the door.

By JasonInMaine

December 28, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

Mariner, I agree. It looks better and better, and his value has to have risen as a result of these ludicrous contracts.

Regards,

Jason

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

SiberianJackAss, your progenitors must have been the fathers of all things stupid in the United States. My name is connected in no way with the middle east.
You are a true alpha idiot - more stupid than anyone you come in contact with.

Please leave Siberia out of your blogname. Siberia would never claim you.

By KC

December 28, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine: YOU’RE OUT OF YOUR MIND!!!! THERE’S NO WAY WE CAN TRADE HUDSON!!!!!!!

Just kidding. =) You expect nothing less of me, and I didn’t want to disappoint.

By JasonInMaine

December 28, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

KC, man I have been waiting for you. You just gave me a good chuckle which I can use today!

Regards,

Jason

By TennesseePaul

December 28, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

ZITO TO THE GIANTS

So, now that NY doesn’t have it’s name what to do with all those 40 year old pitchers they have?? I love it, if only for the fact that it wasn’t a NY Team getting him.

Bad contract though. Can’t believe it, but not too surprised. The Giants have nothing going for them except Bonds eventual imprisonment for lying. That should be quite the spectator event when they haul him off the field in shackels. Plus the rival Dodgers made a big splash by handing out 16 million a year to a pitcher 5 years older with a worse track record for performance and health. At least it was only a 3 year deal though. Both those clowns are over paid.

By mariner

December 28, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

If Boras can get 7 years and $126 million for a 29 year old Zito, I’m guessing he can get 8 years $160 million for Andruw. I don’t expect we’ll be hearing Scheurholz talk much longer about still having hope of signing AJ.

By Jared

December 28, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

So, is Chris Reitsma coming back or what? Will the Braves extend Smoltz?

Mets’ fans are deeply saddened.

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

AJ will get a deal very similar to what Vernon Wells got, just a little more money. Probably 7 years, $135 million, something like that. I doubt anyone will go 8 years with Andruw, but, then again, you never know…

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

NOW IS THE TIME TO TRADE HUDSON FOR A YOUNG PITCHER AND A A COUPLE OF PROSPECTS!!!!!

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Please, Scheurholz, PLEEEEEEAAAASE DO NOT BRING BACK RIETSMA!…EVEN IF HE PITCHES FOR FREE I WOULDN’T WANT HIM BACK!!!

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, Zito staying close to home is smart, no? Wife won’t cut him off for disrupting domestic routine. Children will go to same schools. He knows all the good restuarants.

As far as Bonds travels, who cares? Other lefthanders could jack their homeruns into McCovey’s Cove. He is not the only chicken of the sea.

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Hey, could somebody post a link to a Met’s blog? I am just dying to hear about the panic that has surely hit New York…

By KC

December 28, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Fran:

The Braves don’t want to trade Adam LaRoche, and won’t unless they get something of even greater value in return. They are in no hurry whatsoever to deal him. It’s just that he’s their most attractive bargaining chip right now, so they’re fielding offers to see if they can get something of even greater value in return.

And please know that all of these rumors about the Braves trading LaRoche in a 3-way deal and getting nothing more than M.Cabrera in return, are nonsense. The Braves have said that their priority is pitching, so the Braves are going to have to get a great arm or two, or a leadoff man plus and arm, before they’ll give up LaRoche. If, and only if, Atlanta gets the right sensible package in return, they’ll deal LaRoche. But at this point, I think it’s more likely than not that LaRoche will be a Brave next season.

You said: “They need better starting pitching than they have sand with their budget constraints I do not ever see them competing as they did in the past.”

Fran, I have to respectfully disagree. First of all, the “budget constraints aren’t much of an issue right now. It might be in a few years, or even next year, but it’s not a problem at the moment; not with all of the bargains they have on this team. Consider that three of the Braves biggest bats: LaRoche, Francoeur, and McCann, will earn less than 4 million dollars combined next year. Rafael Soriano will still be cheap by MLB standards next season, and Chuck James, along with most of the Braves bullpen, will all make less than 500k.

Also, take a look at some of the veteran bargains… Hudson-6 mill, Wickman-6 mill, Smoltz-8-mill, Renteria-6 mill (actually earning 10 million, but Boston pays close to half). The Braves will be paying all four of those guys about half of what they could earn if they were on the free agent market today. Heck in this market, even guys like Andruw Jones, and Mike Hampton figure to be relative bargains.

True, they had to cut Marcus Giles loose for monetary reasons. But with the sup par season he’s coming off of… it’s not like they’ll be losing much from last season to next.

As for needing better starting pitching… Smoltz hasn’t lost anything yet. Chuck James will be in the rotation for a full season. Tim Hudson is coming off the first and only poor season of his career, and since he’s healthy, still young, hasn’t lost any of his stuff, and is mad as hell (about his poor 2006) and determined to bounce back… I think it’s more likely than not that the Braves will get a solid season out of Huddy. And finally, Atlanta will be getting Mike Hampton back. Unlike most pitchers who return after only 12 months, Hampton will have had the FULL 18 month recovery period (from Tommy John surgery) that doctors agree is necessary to completely recover from that procedure. 90% of pitchers are back to 100% at the 18 month (post-surgery) mark… so it’s likely just a matter of Hampton shaking off the rust, and Atlanta will have another top of rotation guy back in the fold. The Braves also have 2 or 3 promising prospects for the 5th starter role.

Put it all together, and the Braves’ rotation looks pretty good. If things go their way, this rotation could remind us all of the dominant Braves’ rotations of the 90’s. In short, you should bank on the Braves competing this year. They do have the talent, both arms and bats, and they’ll be right there in the thick of things come September.

By Lew

December 28, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Wojtek-We have found that it is better to stay at a low rent hotel like the Marriot and take a cab to Fenway. It is cheaper and easier to find than parking near the stadium. Also, the Busch Doctrine has to do with placating the masses with cheap, way too heavy tasting beer, not invading countries. Too much Busch Doctrine does, indeed, lead to aggression, but the participants (and victims) are usually closer to home and related to the aggressor. Grinch-Please-anything but the indoor plumbing.

By Wojtek Fibak

December 28, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

That should have been fish in the sea.

By Lew

December 28, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Proof positive that Stinky has taken over for the Jacka$$-The Jacka$$ wouldn’t know the word epicurean.

By KC

December 28, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

DonC: I don’t think you have to worry man. This bullpen is already crowded. I can’t see where there would be any room for reitsma at all.

Wickman, Soriano, McBride, Yates, Villarreal, Paronto, Boyer, Sturtze… that’s 8 guys for 7 slots as it is, and they are still probably hunting for another lefty for the pen. Simply no room for Reitsma or most anyone else.

By KC

December 28, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

WOW! I FEEL SORRY FOR METS FANS… okay, not really.

By KC

December 28, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Zito to Giants… NL East to BRAVES!!! The Braves were already the favorites on paper to reclaim the division title, but now they are even more so.

By Jared

December 28, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Sturtze ain’t going to be avaiable till May, and even then I doubt he’ll be worth anything.

What about Joey Devine?

By Ron Roberts

December 28, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

As far as NL teams go, Zito going to the GIANTS was about the best place he could’ve gone, far as the Braves are concerned.

We’re talking about a team in re-load and/or re-build mode; a team with a shaky rotation (even with Zito’s addition, you have him, Matt Morris, and it drops off from there) and a team who plays a wobbly-knee’d left fielder attempting to stay on just long enough to break a home run record. They’re no danger to contend, far as I’m concerned, and that’s fine by me.

Besides, Zito’s being over-paid, and his stats will suffer from having less foul ground to play with. As it is, he’s been a 2nd or 3rd-in-the-rotation starter, statistically since 2002, wtih an average season that shakes down like this…

13.75 wins

12.5 losses

4.50 ERA

And the Giants get that for $18 million a year. The Hampton and Hudson deals don’t look so bad now, do they? Haha.

But that being said, even if Zito becomes ace-like material, he’s tucked away on a team that I don’t consider to be a threat in 2007.

By KC

December 28, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

Jared:

Even without Sturtze, the Braves already have 7 solid bullpen arms: Wickman, Soriano, Yates, McBride, Villarreal, Boyer, and Paronto.

I don’t see where Sturtze would fit, and they’re still thought to be hunting for another lefty. So I’m not convinced Sturtze will ever see the light of day in a Braves uniform.

By Jeff Childress

December 28, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

I would personally like to see the Braves hold at what they have now unless there is an offer they can’t refuse. With a little luck, the pitching staff could be very good and it seems that the bullpen is much improved. Scoring runs shouldn’t be a problem, my major concern is keeping CJones in the lineup. I would like to add three of my favorite cd’s of the year, if you haven’t heard them you should check them out. Govt Mule-High and Mighty Tom Russell-Love and Fear Jeffrey Foucault-Ghost Repeater

By The Dude

December 28, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Zito will dominate NL hitters. Giants still won’t make the playoffs.

By Voice of Reason

December 28, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

Grilled Cheese: white bread, New York sharp cheddar cheese, real butter, iron skillet. ‘Nuff said.

Wow, $18M per year for Zito… Makes Smoltzie’s puny $8M look like a thrift store treasure.

The guitar is to be treated like the art piece that it is. It is an instrument best dislayed through its dynamic qualites and intricacies. It should sing like those of Clapton, Allman, SRV, Trower… It should not spew forth like Nickelback and that ilk. The genre that treats the guitar as a growling beast with which to intimidate and dominate is not something I care to listen to. However, if that’s what you like… God bless you. That’s why we have channel selectors and forward buttons.

By MGL

December 28, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

For you sadists —-

http://www.metsblog.com/blog/_archives/2006/12/28/2602887.html#comments

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

KC, I think you think that this team is a lot better than they really are. They don’t have any high OBP players other than Chipper and Renteria(Mccann’s numbers are inflated, the guy ain’t hitting .333 next year). Their closer doesn’t strike guys out, which is essential. Soriano was a great move, but Yates will be our 7th inning gy next year, he isn’t a “solid” guy. Their minor leagues are getting worse and worse. They have the 4th best starting pitching staff next year in their division. Yes I actually think the Mets still have a better staff. Hudson and Hampton are terrible. Smoltz is just as old as Glavine. James and Davies are still unproven. This team isn’t as good as you think, so I think trading guys like Hudson and Andruw will only make the team better in 08 and 09.

By KC

December 28, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Hey, where are all the Mets fans? Don’t they want to discuss Zito’s signing with the Giants?

I’m sorry. Can’t resist a little gloating. Nice to see a deep pocketed team fail to get their man from time to time. Of course, I’ve been telling Mets fans here from day-1 that their having deep pockets didn’t necessarily mean much this year, because there are many teams spending big money right now. Having money is no guarantee of getting your man, as the Mets found out.

With Zito and Suppan both now off the market, I’m not sure what’s left in the way of quality starters.

Jeff Weaver and Mark Mulder are the only to starting pitchers worth mentioning left on the market. Neither would likely be the impact guy the Mets need. Here it is in plain english… the Mets are screwed.

Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Davies

Vs.

Glavine, O.Hernandez, Maine, Trachsel?, Perez (and later, Pedro, at whatever capacity that may be).

The Braves and Mets are very comparable in terms of their offensive ability and their bullpens, but the rotations aren’t even close.

By Voice of Reason

December 28, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

My typing sucks…

Once again: “…displayed through its dynamic qualities…”

I really should learn to type…

By KC

December 28, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to work out an extension with Smoltz NOW! A one-year 12-13 million dollar deal (for 08’) ought to do it. He’ll take a bit of a discount to retire a Brave, but I seriously doubt we’re going to re-sign him for 8 million. Smoltz is more important than A.Jones for the next couple of years, so lock him up for another season or two!!

By KC

December 28, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Stinky:

Merry belated Christmas, and happy new year.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 28, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

journalist wonders how many grilled cheese sandwiches will be made by bloggers today and tomorrow following this enlightening discussion of the art of grilled cheese?? and still we have not heard from carolina lady and flabravesgirl who seem to be proficient in all kinds of cooking. scalp’em also needs to be heard from. we are not hearing much of oven cooked cheese sandwiches - then why do you cook your banana pudding in an oven!!?? even the jackass weighed in on cheese sandwiches (may not be the real jackass) anyway, we have some special cheese for jackass’ sandwich.

now, for you bargain hunters: this is an excellent time to pick up cheese samplers at the store. some stores will have cheese samplers marked down to ridiculously low prices. dob may be missing for a time after this post. nothing like a cheese sampler when covering baseball.

now, toe health. the following players continue to have toe issues in the off-season, pedro, griffey jr, and uh, chipper. what will the new season bring? whose toes will be healed first?

By KC

December 28, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

JasonInMaine:

I don’t think anyone could make an offer for Hudson that the Braves couldn’t refuse right now. Such an offer would have to include a bargain priced, top-quality starter in return… and who has that to give? At 6 million dollars, Hudson just fits too nicely into the Braves’ plans to part with him now.

A Glavine return was the only possible thing that could have sparked a Hudson trade, and that’s come and gone.

BTW, that 2:48 re-post, was Stinky posting under my name. You might have already figured that out.

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Wow, I was just checking out Zito’s career stats… Dang, I didn’t know how mediocre he’s been in the last 4 years until now… Since 2003, you could easily argue Jeff Suppan has been the better pitcher (Suppan has more wins and a slighty LESS e.r.a. over the 4 years). The only thing that sticks out with Zito are his Innings Pitched. He’s averaged about 220 over the last 4 seasons…

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 28, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the link, MGL. It makes my day to see them squirm. Looks like Omar got “Glavined” by Mr. Zito. They might be willing to give up the farm now for a decent starter. Pull up a chair boys, (and girls). Lets sit back and watch what “Minudo” does to get the irate city of New York off his back.

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

How are the Braves and Mets offenses comparable??? The Mets are a lot better.

By KC

December 28, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Stinky:

Merry belated Christmas, and happy new year.

By DonCoburleone

December 28, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Haha, some good posts from Muts fans I thought I’d share with you guys… . . .

Re: News: Zito to Giants by molesh on Thu 28 Dec 2006 12:55 PM EST | Profile | Permanent Link Now we look like idiots. We lost out on EVERY opportunity to obtain a starting pitcher this offseason, and our rotation is one of the weakest in the division. As much as I like to think Omar knows what he is doing, I think he dropped the ball on this one (this one bring improving the rotation this offseason). Re: Re: News: Zito to Giants by mets1283 on Thu 28 Dec 2006 12:58 PM EST | Profile | Permanent Link i think omar blew it also. The only thing thats left is signing a pitcher like joel piniero or mulder. Maybe a trade can happen but its going to cost the mets a ton in prospects. This offseason has been bad, and if you look at the rotation Glavine, Duque, Maine, Oliver perez, Humber/Solar/Williams/Pelfrey; that is hardly a playoff rotation… . . … NICE!

By Carolina Lady

December 28, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

posted by some guy on the Met’s blog:

Re: Re: News: Zito to Giants by steveo on Thu 28 Dec 2006 01:46 PM EST | Profile | Permanent Link It’s time to see what Atlanta wants for Hudson, I mean we can’t start the season with a bunch of #3-4 starters on our staff. We need a big time pitcher for the right price of course.

:-))

By AdirondackDave

December 28, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Wow, things are looking up with Zito going to the Giants for 18M x 7. From a competitive point of view, the Braves look about as good as anybody for ‘07 and better than most. Hampton back, Wickman for a full year, plus Soriano should mean a 15-game improvement. If we can get another strong bullpen arm I think we go from good to World Series material.

Still, looking beyond ‘07, it makes a lot of sense to try to reel in Baldelli with his compelling talent and contract. I would think working out an extension with Smoltz should also be on the front burner. Comparable money for ‘08 and ‘09 (latter being a option year) and a post-retirement club job could do it. Confidence he’ll retire in Atlanta has to be attractive to him at this point. I doubt that he’d leave home for $5M more.

By KC

December 28, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Efrim D: Why do I get the feeling that you’re a Mets fan?

“They don’t have any high OBP players other than Chipper and Renteria (McCann’s numbers are inflated, the guy ain’t hitting .333 next year).”

Chipper, and McCann both posted excellent OBP’s, and Renteria, A.Jones, and Matt Diaz were solid in that dept. And thanks for that McCann prognostication. I’ll be sure and cut him from my fantasy team ASAP.

Say whatever you want about the Braves offense Efrim. They finished 2nd in the league in runs scored last season, only 16 runs behind the Phillies who play in a bit-time hitter’s park (as I’m sure you know, the Braves play in a pitcher’s park). In other words, the Braves were the best offensive team in the NL last season… even better than the Mets. So you can say whatever you want to try and spin it. The facts are the facts. The Braves are as good an offensive ballclub as there is in the league.

“Their closer doesn’t strike guys out, which is essential.”

Dude, I’m not trying to be insulting, but that statement is just plain ignorant. Bob Wickman has posted a 2.57 ERA over the past two seasons, while converting 78 of 87 save opportunities over that span. Over that same period, B.Wagner has converted 78 of 86. Sorry, not seeing that big difference there.

“Soriano was a great move, but Yates will be our 7th inning guy next year, he isn’t a “solid” guy.”

First of all, there will likely be a competition between Yates and Blaine Boyer for that 7th inning role next season. But let me point out that Yates was in fact solid last season. Yates was called up on May 30th, and became a valuable part of the Braves’ pen. He had one bad month (August), but was excellent through the other three months he was in Atlanta. Through the months of June, July, and September (excluding only August), Yates posted a 2.17 ERA. And it’s worth mentioning that he finished strong, posting a 2.70 ERA as the Braves setup man in September.

“Their minor leagues are getting worse and worse.”

Wow… hadn’t heard that, but thanks for the info. This is only the minor league system that produced McCann, Francoeur, C.James, Boyer, McBride, and Thorman over the last year of two. Yeah… that’s pretty sorry scouting and player development dept.

Efrim, gotta run… I’ll have to answer to your “4th best rotation in the division” comment here in a bit. Till then, please take a closer look at all the numbers, and consider how flawed that pitching staffs of teams like the Mets and Phillies are, before you start making silly statements like that.

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

The Braves still have a worse rotation than the Mets. Dont forget…..We still have Hudson and Hampton on the team. They arent good. Neither is Kyle Davies. James and Smoltz are the only starters that will post sub 4 ERA’s. That isnt a good rotation. Not to mention the team has yet to solve 2nd base Left field or lead off.

By berigan

December 28, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

WOW! I could almost be as optimistic as KC right now!;) Watch the Phillies just blow past the Braves and Mets now…. I checked the Mets link, and you know what? Omar is pretty smart, all things considered. I mean, it would have been stupid to go beyond 5 years for Zito, and he likely wanted to stay in the Bay area all along, you just can’t say that….Hopefully, the Marlins feel they can compete and won’t trade Dontrelle to the Mets.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Thank you Giants! Where is NYM, and Metropolitan at now. I think just about EVERYBODY thought that Zito was going to be a Met, me included, but glad I was wrong. Now the Mets will probably push extremely hard to go after Willis. Gonna have to give up alot to get him though. HAHAHAHAHAHA,Met Fans!!!!!!!!!!!!

By KC

December 28, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Okay, now… as to your take on the Braves’ starting pitching.

“Smoltz is just as old as Glavine.” Actually, he’s a year younger, and considerably better.

“Hudson and Hampton are terrible.” Hmmm… okay, whatever you say. Here are a few numbers on Mike Hampton:

• Overall as a Brave: 31-18, 3.74 ERA

• Since all-star break in 03’ (until he went on DL last year in the 05’ season): 26-13, 3.44

• Since all-star break in 04’ (until he went on DL last year in the 05’ season): 13-2, 2.54 ERA

Again, Hampton will have had the FULL 18 month recover period (fairly rare, as most return after only 12 months). If you’re unaware of the significance of that fact, please refer to my 2:03 post.

Tim Hudson is coming off the first and only poor season of his career. Every season prior to 06’ (excluding his sophomore season… and he won 20 games that year), Tim Hudson finished in the top 15% of all MLB starters in ERA. Also, heading into last season, he was the 2nd winningest active pitcher in baseball. He’s healthy, young, and determined. If you want to bet against him, be my guest. I won’t.

“James and Davies are still unproven.”

You are correct. However, there is absolutely no reason at all not to have confidence in Chuck James. He dominated all through the minors, and pitched very well in his first season in Atlanta. He pitched extremely well out of the bullpen early in the season, and pitched well in the rotation for several months as well. This kid is universally regarded throughout MLB as “the real deal”. As for Davies… lots of potential, but has proven nothing yet. But then, how solid does the bottom of the Mets or Phillies rotation look to you?

“Yes I actually think the Mets still have a better staff.”

Really? You like Glavine, Hernandez, Maine, and Perez… better than Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, and James? Wow, dude. I don’t know what to say. They can’t bank on Pedro. Even if he does return at the all-star break as they’re hoping… shoulder injuries/surgeries are the most dangerous in terms of their propensity to affect a pitchers velocity or “stuff” (and Pedro’s stuff has already been diminished by previous injuries). No guarantee whatsoever of what they’ll get from him when he returns. As for 2nd base and leadoff… The Braves didn’t have a leadoff man last year, and were the best offensive team in the NL. Considering the season Giles had last year, it’s not like we’re losing much from last season to next. The Braves will again be among the league leaders in runs scored. The difference will be that Atlanta is likely to reclaim its place among the league leaders in ERA next season as well.

By berigan

December 28, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

I hope last year was an abberation with Hudson, and he at least returns to the numbers he posted with us in 2005. Coming to a new league(the inferior one we hear, AAAA and all that) he should have done better than he did in ‘05, and 06 makes no sense at all. I’ll settle for 05 right now. We can compete with that…..

By Fed Up

December 28, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

RIP Mets

By Ron

December 28, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

berigan, Omar is pretty smart. Yeah he just made one of the worst trades in the history of the game for a small market team when he was GM of the Expos. Remember that trade with the Indians. The Expos traded Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Philipps for Bartolo Colon. Dont blame them for trading for Colon but they knew they could not keep him, and sure enough they traded him one year later for who? ROCKY freakin BITTLE!!!! WHO??????? All the Expos traded away is just A number 1 starting pitcher in Cliff Lee, and a Great CF in Grady Sizemore, and Philipps would be the stating 2nd Baseman. The Nationals have no number 1 starter, and no Great CF, and have Guzman at shortstop,haha. That trade crippled that franchise and they are still feeling that trade. And he is a pretty good GM. He is nothing but overrated. He has a good job for the Mets and he can spend whatever he wants. he stinks, no more Minaya is good he just crippled a franchise thats ALL! Heck the Nationals dont even have a Good CF!

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 28, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

I was a NosePicker, Along the top step I did stand.

spit and mucous on my hand.

Many a Braves Fan bashed and cussed me in the seats,

My own third-baseman shed is Red Man on my cleats.

The bastards won it in the fall of ‘95, So I am still alive…..

See Y’all tomorrow… Hillbilly gone huntin’

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 28, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Verse Two:

Take it Grinch……

By NYM

December 28, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Ron, I’m right here baby. Yes, i thought the Mets would sign Zito. But during the last few days I looked closely at his stats over the last 3-4 years and discovered they weren’t worth his asking price. I agree with a previous post that said Suppan would be a better aquisition. It’s December 2006. Nothing is won or lost right now. In 2006 we didn’t have Zito or Pedro for more that half the season. We won 97 games. There’s still time for Minaya to improve the starting pitching. All last year all Braves fans made remark after remark about the Mets pitching. And guess what? You ALL were wrong. It was good enough to win the division. so like I said before, lets wait til the season starts before you claim any victories.

By JC FROM UT

December 28, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

KC: I couldn’t agree with you more about giving Smoltz an extention. I think 11-13M should do it plus a vesting option at 10M depending on his health an previous years innings pitched. I would advise JS to do it now before JS gets pi$$ed off and wont return “homeboys” calls.

By NYM

December 28, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

Let me just add to my previous post. Could the Met have paid $18 mil a season for Zito? Sure they could, but would it be smart? Rivalry aside, you Brave fans know he’s not worth the kind of money the giants signed him for. Just because the Mets have the funds doesn’t mean they have to become the Yankees and overspend.

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

KC, you are banking way too much on Hampton, who is coming off Tommy John Surgery, and Tim Hudson, who is a number 3 starter at best. Give me a reason why you think Tim Hudson will rebound back to his old form of 2003. Im not talking about 2004 with the A’s. I want vintage Tim Hudson, the guy we traded for. Smoltz is better than Glavine, but as far as Oliver Perez and Mike Pelfrey versus Chuck James and Kyle Davies. Im going with the Mets 4 and 5. Pelfrey is a stud who throws hard. The Mets have a closer who strikes people out. 7th and 8th inning relievers who are very good. Duaner Sanchez and Aaron Heilman. No reason to believe Sanchez won;t come back strong after a non pitching related injury. You can;t even argue that the Mets and Braves are equal on Offense. Its not even close. Our 3 hole hitter in Chipper can’t play 120 games anymore. They have the BEST lead off hitter in Baseball. Beltran Delgado and Wright as their 3,4,5. Aloe Green and Valentine to round it out. A MUCH BETTER OFFENSE.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

There you are NYM, glad to see you back. I agree with the Mets he is not worth that much, and I would not have signed him either, and Suppan will probably be just as good, but you did say earlier that If the Mets could get Zito or Suppan that the Mets would be in good shape, well what now. NYM, be honest who do you think right now has the best rotation the Braves or Mets.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, what the heck you talkin about Oliver Perez, dude he stunk while Pitching for the sorry Pirates, he had one good game in the game 7, so what they still lost, every dog has one good day, even the sun shines on a dogs a$$. Pelfrey who, he has not done nothing. At least James and Davies has done something. Well there are at least 3 Met fans on this blog Metropolitan, NYM, and Efrim D, at least NYM, he actually makes sense. Efrim D you dont make any sense.

By Stinky

December 28, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

KC, apparently you have Stinky on the brain. You’ve not been on my radar. I rarely post as other legit bloggers, these days, and most especially not as SJA (Lew). (SJA must be doing one of those build-a-better-vocabulary programs). Happy Holidays and a Proseprous New Year to you and yours, KC.

By Lew

December 28, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Don’t worry about Hampton-we aren’t. Also, what does it matter if Hudson is only a #3 starter. That’s what he will be. Number 3 after Smoltz and Hampton. Now granted we don’t have 5 #3 and #4 starters like the Mets, but we’ll manage somehow. As far as Chipper-His injuries last year were primarily a result of a bad fall on a bad field in SF and then an oblique problem resulting from that injury. It is unlikely to keep him out any more. As far as his toe, I think he actually sat out about three games as a result. He also swings the bat and doesn’t leave it sitting on his shoulder like Beltran. I wonder if Carlos has lost that look of total disbelief yet.

By NYM

December 28, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

Ron….On paper the Braves would have the edge. However, other than Hampton that rotation was the same as last years and what did it get you. Brave fans spent all last year underestimating the Mets pitching and it seems they’re doing it again. I think Minya will make a move that improves the rotation. Also, the Mets have several young arms that have potential…….We’ll see.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 28, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

First of all, the Giants giving Zito what amounts to $144 million is absolutely moronic. No way that deal should have been made. Give Boras credit. He always finds somebody willing to give away the farm.

Second of all, Efrim and NYM, you guys are kidding right. The Mets are better than the Braves. In what way? I would take our rotation over the Mets, as currently constructed, any day of the week. The Mets bullpen isn’t any better than Atlanta’s right now. Heck, the Braves may actually have a better pen. Efrim, exactly how is the Mets offense better than Atlanta’s when the Braves outscored them last year. I will give you that the Mets’ offense is more balanced but adding Alou doesn’t give them THE EDGE. Anyone wanna bet that Alou has at least one DL stint of 20 to 30 days? You said Valentin, Green, and Alou rounds out the offense? I would take Frenchy in a second over Green. Take a look at Green’s numbers especially after he came to the Mets. Alou can still rake but how healthy can he stay? And I would take the combo of K. Johnson and Aybar over Valentin. I’ll be the first to say I don’t think the Braves current roster can get to a WS but neither can the Mets. That Mets rotation isn’t better than the Phillies and sure as hell isn’t better than the Marlins. C’mon, guys!

Now, another point that I have and I’m sure I will be ripped on, but hear me out. With this insane free agent market and the ridiculous contracts given to Zito, Meche, Lilly, and Marquis Hudson’s deal looks like a bargain. That has been the given excuse as to why the Braves shouldn’t trade him. I, however, feel that his bargain contract is the VERY reason the Braves should trade him…or at least field offers. I think Hudson will bounce back and be himself. I think he was still feeling some effects of his oblique injury of 2005 and just didn’t want to complain. The fact is while his contract is affordable next year, it won’t be for the following three seasons. I think JS should approach some teams who are contenders or a year away and make a pitch for Hudson and attempt to get some young pitching here that is affordable. I think the two primary teams that he should go after are the Cubs and Orioles. The O’s play in a division where the Yanks and Red Sox rule. However, a guy like Hudson could give them a better than decent chance to contend this year and most certainly for the next few years. JS could offer Hudson and LaRoche for Ray, Bedard, and Penn. The Braves could then flip Ray (if they so choose) to the Rays for Baldelli. The reason the O’s might be willing to trade Bedard is that he is two years from free agency. What kind of money do you think he will get? $15 or $16 million by then would not be out of the question. Now, of course the Braves wouldn’t be able to afford that either BUT, for this year AND next year he would fit nicely into the Braves’ budget and the Braves would still have time to develop their younger pitchers, who by then would be able to replace Bedard. In 2008 Bedard won’t make more than $4 or $5 million while Hudson will be making $13 MILLION! By trading Hudson now the Braves would free up money and can offer some of it to Smoltz on an extension. Bedard could step into the roation and if he could give the Braves what he gave the O’s last season the Braves rotation is still distinctly better than the Mets or Phillies. Penn is a star in the making and while Ray would be great in the bullpen, if he is what it takes to get Baldelli, then by all means he should be moved and the Braves have their future CF who will be under contract until 2011.

A similar situation with the Cubs. The Cubs know their rotation still isn’t as good as the Brewers or the Astros and hell the Pirates. Hudson would solidify that roation. In return the Braves get Rich Hill and Sean Marshall or Carlos Marmoul. I know the Cubs say that Hill is untouchable but they have to realize that now more than ever they could lose Zambrano after this season. The Cubs want to win NOW! The Braves can much more insert Hill into the rotation and still feel good because they have Smoltz, Hampton, and James. The Cubs, on the other hand, would be taking a huge risk in 2008 relying on Hill with the likes of Marquis, Lilly, and always injured Mark Prior. And I could be wrong but both teams may be willing to give a little more because of the fact that Hudson is an established winner while guys like Bedard and Hill aren’t. It is worth asking and the Braves really could sustain the loss of Hudson with Harrison and Lerew waiting in the wings.

One more thing, Efrim, Hampton will be just fine. Dr. James Andrews (maybe you have heard of him…he’s done one or two of these surgeries) says there is a 100% recovery rate if the full 18 months are taken for rehabilitation (which Hampton will have done by the time spring training starts) and a 90% at the 12 month mark (which is what most pitchers do). No reason to believe that Hampton will not be ready and as someone pointed out Hampton has been excellent as a Brave. I really don’t know where the notion began that he hasn’t pitched very well as a Brave because it is categorically untrue!

My whole point about Hudson is to take advantage of the situation while you can. If he has another subpar season it will be hard to move him…even in this market…with him making $13 mil in 2008, 2009, and 2010. I hate the budget constraints but they are what they are and JS has to look not only to 2007 but beyond. You don’t put all your eggs in a basket because they don’t have the financial resources like the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Astros, or even the Cardinals and Tigers to recover quickly if it goes awry.

By NYM

December 28, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Lew, You talking thru your you know what. In 20 post season series chipper numbers are .288/11(HR)/47(RBI)…..Beltrans in four are .366/13/19…….the numbers favor Carlos if you average them out. Stop being such a hater. You should make that your new years resolution.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

I agree with you Robert about Hampton. He has been great for the Braves, The Met fans obviously did not watch him pitch when he was healthy, obviously. I would not trade Hudson though because the Braves do need an Ace when Smoltz retires or leaves or whatever he decides to do, and Hampton when he probably leaves after the 2008 season. Hudsons numbers for 2007- 18-6 2.56 ERA

By Ron

December 28, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

NYM, has Beltran taken that bat off of his shoulders yet. hmmm! oh well.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 28, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

NYM, the Braves rotation is not the same as it was last year except for Hampton. That is simply not true. Davies was out for most of the season and did not come back until Septemmber and was still injured then. James was only in the rotation for the second half of the season. So, the rotation isn’t the same. If you calculate James numbers out for an entire season the kid would have won 20 games and a Cy Young. Just so you are well informed, my friend. The Braves rotation on opening day was: Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, Davies, and Ramirez with Thomson as a sixth. Three of those guys were injured most of the season and Sosa imploded. So, this year’s rotation is definitley better as I’m sure you can see.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

These blogs are getting interesting now. The Met fans are bashing our players, The Braves fans are bashing the Mets players, its all good. haha. and the Braves fans are bashing the Mets fans, and the Mets fans are bashing the Braves fans. Thats what I am talkin about, forget the trade rumors, this is more fun. Hey NYM, Efrim D, and Metropolitan bring some more of you Met fans why we can bash them. especially Efrim D, he is a complete idiot. NYM, dude its hard to say this but you are actually alright, because you actully know about baseball, especially when you posted the 6:34 PM quote, good job. Hate to say that because Chipper is my favorite player but well done.

By Carroll

December 28, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

CL: interesting that the Mutts want Tim Huddy. I would give him to them in a heartbeat for Heilman and Paul DoLuca (for first base so we can trade LaRoche..also I just plain hate facing that bastard son of a thousand) OR Milledge (for LF and to replace AJ next year).

By Stinky

December 28, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

NYM, Lew is a whiny little jerk.

By TheSouthernJackAssAin'tLew

December 28, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Stinky, my man, you are in way over your head. Better to be all whiny than just plain stupid. How’s the little woman tonight?

By flange1

December 28, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

Hi All,

Robert,

I think you make a good point about trading Hudson now that his contract looks good. I think we could turn him into a future ace. I think we should consider the same with Renteria. WE HAVE middle infielders coming up through the system.. Renteria’s contract looks like a steal now….

Efrim,

Dude, KC got you. Offense betwen the 2 two teams is pretty equal. Alou is good but not David Ortiz!!! Without Zito, the Mets staff is inferior. I agree with NYM that the Mets have another move or two up their sleeve and if they get Willis they will be ahead of the Braves, but right now the Braves are better in the rotation than the Mets. Bullpen is a toss up.

NYM,

You are correct that the Braves (plus the Braves fans) failed to see the quality of the 06 Mets pitching staff. Under-estimated is and under -statement! I know their minor league system is heating up nicely, but right now, their pitching staff looks fair at best. Losing 3 relievers and 3 of your main starters (Pedro MAY be back in 07) and replacing them with who???? (oh yeah, the guy from KC, they have a great staff!!) Before you need to talk about the great Met’s staff, let’s see who Omar chooses for his 4 and 5 starters and if there is any more help in the pen…

Guys I think we have a good chance this year!!!

By Stinky

December 28, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

RobertJIB, Davies has never demonstrated the ability to consistently get through the 6th inning with the Braves. Maybe he’s been rushed, but I don’t see him as being a guy to depend on. James may be the real deal, but that sophomore slump thing will be hanging over his head if he shows any hint of a letdown. That said, I’d still pick the Braves staff over the Mets. But Mulder is still out there and he could be a difference maker if he lands with the Mets and gets healthy.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

NYM, dude I tell you who the Mets should go after is Mark Redman. I am serious he is actually a good pitcher, probably the number 4 starter. A guy that will win a pretty good amount of wins,for a fourth starter and eat up some innings. If yall get him it will be very interesting, I think he will be better than Mulder.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 28, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

Ron, you are right about Redman. The Mets should go after him. I’m surprised that nobody has signed him yet. I would say the Braves should make a play for him but he will be too pricey. I do think that John Thomson or Tony Armas Jr. should be on the Braves radar. Thomson was hurt last year, thus his poor performance. Either one of those guys would serve as nice insurance if Davies and Cormier can’t get it done.

By Blog Recorder

December 28, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

Here is a DOB blog gem from September.

“So ignore them. They’ll post here under their usual couple of names and under several other screen names, surely all day today (they either don’t work, or have jobs that aren’t very demanding). But it’ll be obvious it’s the work of sad, desperate people. No need to continue to encourage them anymore. Let them crawl back into their holes or sling mud at me and, perhaps, a couple of you. No worries.”

By KC

December 28, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Efrim D:

In regard to Mike Hampton, I’m not expecting too much from him at all. I think there will be a re-acclimation period for him, and that he very well might get off to slow start. But there’s every reason to look for a solid overall season from him.

First of all, as I’ve mentioned many times with Mike Hampton… he will 18 months removed from his Tommy John surgery when Spring training rolls around. According to Dr. James Andrews, one of the most well known doctors who performs this surgery for MLB pitchers, FULL recovery from TJ surgery takes 18 months, not 12. Because pitchers can return after only 12 months without doing any damage, most do just that, and struggle with tendonitis and other nagging issues for 4-6 months after their return. However, very few pitchers show any ill-effects whatsoever from the 18 month (post-surgery) mark on.

There is now 90% success rate for pitchers returning from Tommy John surgery. Dr. Andrews defines “success” as a pitcher being back at 100% as of that 18 month mark. This means that, statistically, there is a 10% chance of Mike Hampton experiencing any ill-effects from his surgery this long after the fact.

Hampton will have some rust to shake off, so it won’t surprise me to see him struggle a bit in the first half, and then turn it on after the all-start break. But again I want to emphasize that rust, and not the TJ surgery, is likely to be the biggest challenge Hampton will have to overcome.

As for Tim Hudson, like Hampton, I’m not predicting a CY Young here (though I wouldn’t be at all shocked he if did get back to that level this year). As I’ve said many times in this blog, 2006 was the first and only poor season of his career. In 04’ and 05’ he struggled with a Oblique muscle strain most of both seasons, missing 7 or 8 starts both years and was not 100% when he was on the mound. Still, he managed to post ERA’s of 3.53 and 3.52. Even in his two injury-hampered seasons, he still finished in the top 15% of all MLB starters in ERA.

2006 was a different story. By all reports, he was healthy. There is not satisfactory reason for his struggles in 06’. He was simply “out of sync” much of the year. It was a mechanical issue that probably also turned into a mental issue after a while.

I was curious to see if there was any precedent for this… a healthy, top-caliber pitcher in his prime, struggling one year for no apparent reason. So I looked up the career stats of pretty much every pitcher to finish top-10 in ERA over the last 25 years. What I found was that numerous pitchers had similar seasons in their primes for no apparent reasons, including Roger Clemens, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina (and I’m talking in his more dominant Baltimore days), Kevin Brown, and others. In every similar case that I could find, that pitcher bounced right back the following season. In other words… history is on his side.

And when I look at the fact that he’s still young, healthy, determined, and hasn’t lost any of his stuff… I think it would be wise to bet on him having a solid season next year.

I can’t predict the future in either case. I’m just saying that I believe it to be more likely than not that both Hampton and Hudson will important parts of this rotation next season.

By KC

December 28, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

Stinky, my apologies if I’ve been falsly accusing you there man.

By KC

December 28, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

To all those who say Hudson is not better than a 3rd or 4th starter:

Let’s say a certain starter finishes in the bottom 15% in the league in ERA every year for 7 seasons. Now let’s say that pitcher comes out in 2006 and wins 15 games with a 3.45 ERA. Would you now pronounce that guy a bonafide top-tier pitcher? Or would you say “hey look at the previous 7 years… he’s got more to prove”. I think most of you would have a little more confidence in him, but would recognize the very real possibility that this one good year was something of a fluke.

Flip that scenario upside down, and you have Tim Hudson. 7 years of excellence, followed by one poor season. Yet many are quick to throw out the previous 7 years and relegate him to the bottom of the rotation, or ship him off the first willing taker.

I don’t get it. If he sucks this year, then I’ll be right there with you. But right now, I think “geeze… we’re talking about one season here”. Let’s at least reserve judgment until the all-star break next season. Especially when he’s “only” making 6 million next season.

By rainman

December 28, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

KC i love you dude but you have way to much man love for James lol. Just kidding man go braves!

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

How is the bullpen of the Mets and Braves a tossup??? I am not getting into depth. I am going to get into the 7th, 8th inning set up men and closers.

Mets:

7th: Heilman 8th: Sanchez 9th: Wagner

Braves:

7th: Yates 8th: Soriano 9th: Wagner

The Braves to me have the edge in the 8th inning. Soriano is amazing. But they get absolutly BLOWN AWAY in the 7th inning and at closer.

Offense: Here is the two teams projected lineups as of right now.

Mets

SS Reyes C Lo Duca CF Beltran 1B Delgado 3B Wright LF Alou RF Green 2B Valentine

Braves

SS Renteria C McCann 3B Jones CF Jones 1B LaRoche RF Francouer LF Langerhans/Diaz/Thorman 2B K. Johnson/Prado/Aybar

Statistically, the Mets have a much better offense in terms of SLUGGING AND OBP. Their OPS is higher. When you talk about how broken down Moises Alou is, please remember that Chipper Jones(the teams best player) will only play 120 games next year.

Starting rotations

Mets

LHP Glavine RHP Hernandez RHP Maine LHP Perez RHP Pelfrey

Braves

RHP Smoltz RHP Hudson LHP Hampton LHP James RHP Davies

The Braves have the advantage at the Number 1 and 2 starters. I am not a Mike Hampton fan, especially since he is coming off Tommy John Surgery. Who is to say that he is going to pitch better? Everyone said Billy Koch was an amazing pitcher after Tommy John Surgery, the guy broke down a year later. Hampton is no bet, and the Mets found something with John Maine, he is very good. Furthermore, I don’t care what Chuck James did last year. The guy’s flyball ratio is scary. If he pitches 200 plus innings next year, expect 45 home runs given up and a plus 4 ERA. I agree O Perez isn’t much better, but don’t make James to be that great. Pelfrey is a better bet for this upcoming season than Kyle Davies is. End of Story. Check every pitching projection from Bill James to Baseball America, ZIPS, what have you…Pelfrey has better stuff than Davies. A LOT BETTER. Not to mention Philip Humber will be ready by mid season and is a lot better of a prospect than JO JO Reyes and Matt Harrison. They won’t sniff the majors until mid 2008, if they are lucky.

In conclusion, do not sleep on the Mets. They are a very good baseball team that was 18 games better than the Braves last season. I didn’t see the Mets having trouble in the second half of last season when they were without Pedro Martinez. They won’t have trouble without him this year. Remember that? Yea 18 GAMES. Did the Braves get all that back from getting Rafael Soriano. Im sorry I just dont think they did. By the Way… I am a Braves fan. I hate the Mets, but I understand what is about to occur, they have a better young talent base than we do in Reyes Wright Humber and Pelfrey. Laroche isnt young in my mind, he is 27. So I go by Francouer McCann James and Davies. I’ll take the Mets on those four basically because Jeff Franks has a .298 OBP. KILLING US!!!

I think I won that one.

By KC

December 28, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

NYM:

The rotation will likely be a little more different than you think. First of all, if Tim Hudson reverts even to his 04/05 form… that will drastically change the complexion of this rotation. Also, Chuck James will be in the fold for the entire season, and as you mentioned, Hampton will be back. There’s 2 or 3 changes right there.

By Stinky

December 28, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

KC, no harm done.

By KC

December 28, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Flange1:

I maintained that even the Mets signed Zito, that still wouldn’t give them an edge on the Braves. Trading for Dontrelle Willis would be almost the exact same thing. If you look at what Zito and Willis did last season… very similar production. Getting Willis would not put the Mets over on the Braves.

Glavine, Willis, O.Hernandez, Maine, Perez… is not better than Smotlz, Hudson, Hampton, James, and Davies. Again, they can’t bank on Pedro to help them win the division next year. They just have to hope that he can be close to 100% come October, if they can pull off a Wild Card berth.

It’s a non-issue anyway, because the Marlins have made it clear that they’re not dealing Willis.

By NYM

December 28, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

All this talk about maybe, should, could is pointless. Yes, the braves have made some moves to try and improve their bullpen but nobody knows what will happen. The top of the line-up has questions as well. Will Hampton win more than 10 games? The core of the Mets will return and Minaya isn’t done yet. Until the Braves prove they’re better than the Mets they’re not.

By KC

December 28, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Efrim D: “The Braves to me have the edge in the 8th inning. Soriano is amazing. But they get absolutely BLOWN AWAY in the 7th inning and at closer.”

I’m not sure why I’m bothering, since I get the distinct impression that you’re not paying any attention to my arguments, but here’s why you’re wrong.

To reiterate what I said earlier… First of all, there will likely be a competition between Yates and Blaine Boyer for that 7th inning role. Boyer had a very good rookie season in 05’ before missing all of 2006 due to injury. He is healthy, and will compete for a prominent role in the pen. Boyer is a great young arm and is the Brave regard him as a possible future closer.

As for Yates… he was in fact solid last season. Yates was called up on May 30th, and became a valuable part of the Braves’ pen. He had one bad month (August), but was excellent through the other three months he was in Atlanta. Through the months of June, July, and September (excluding only August), Yates posted a 2.17 ERA. And it’s worth mentioning that he finished strong, posting a 2.70 ERA as the Braves setup man in September.

Bob Wickman: Over the past 2 seasons has posted a 2.57 ERA while converting 78 of 87 save opportunities. Compare that to Wagner who has converted 78 of 86 save opps over the past two season. Sorry man… just not seeing where he’s “blown away” Bob Wickman.

Gotta run. G’night all.

By John Adcox

December 28, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this

Put me down for liking the rotation and the ‘pen, too. Smoltz is Smoltz, and I don’t stop betting on him until he proves me wrong or until the mandatory retirement age forces him out of the game. The man is amazing, and he IS the team leader, with nothing against Chipper.

I agree it might be a bit much to expect BOTH Hampton and Hudson to bounce back and be studs—but it is certainly possible, and I find it at least equally unlikely that both will fail spectacularly. My gut says that one will likely exceed our expectations, and the other will be at worst a solid number three guy.

I think James is for real. In want to see what Davies can do for a season. My one worry is that we lack depth if any of the above go down, which is, frankly, the one reason I can stomach a LaRoche trade. We could use another solid arm.

Even if we don’t find another lefty for the ‘pen, I can’t help thinking just with what we have right now, we’re already good for another twenty wins. Twenty. Again, twenty. That’s a lot.

If the Braves made NO MORE MOVES at all, we’re solid on offence. No spectacular, but solid. Presumably, we’re looking at a Diaz/Thorman platoon in left, which (I hope) can make up for what they lack in defense with their bats. I image they’ll be batting low in the order, possible as low as 8, where average should mean some good RBI totals. Naturally, I’d like to see us do better there (that combo might be better at first if we must move LaRoche) but we could do a lot worse.

McCann, LaRoche (assuming he stays), Andruw, and Chipper are a pretty solid heart of the order. Renteria is as close to an ideal number 2 guy as you can find.

That leaves lead off as the one glaring hole. Since we can’t start with number 2, somebody’s going to have to go up there first. LaRoche? Hate to lose that bat late. Andruw or Chipper? Forget it. Diaz/Thorman? Possible. McCann? The OBP looks good, but jeez, the later batters will have a lot of gap to-the-wall singles with him on base in front of them, and we need him at six or so to protect our RBI guys. And to BE an RBI guy. Frenchy? Hmmm. McCann doesn’t sound so bad after all.

So we’re left with the only realistic options being Diaz/Thorman — FAR from ideal — or Johnson/Prado, whichever wins the second base job. I seriously imagine Johnson can handle the job, but it would be nice to see them get at least a month or two, and ideally a season, to acclimate before putting them in such a high-pressure spot.

That’s assuming we stand pat. Can we win the division? Certainly seems possible. The rotation and the arm really should get us close, and the pen seals the deal. Can we win in post season with this roster? We’d need a lot, and I mean a lot, of luck.

Now, if we are able to pull a rabbit out of the hat and land Rocco Baldelli, we have leadoff solved. That means would could conceivably package some combination of Thorman/Langerhans/Diaz for a trade, but I can’t imagine what any of them would bring, since our need is for an arm or two, especially if we lose Davies (I won’t even entertain the thought of losing James). That leaves Laroche. Trading Laroche seems to make no sense at all—unless we make other moves for, say, a Baldelli and need starters.

I don’t think Thorman, or Thorman/Diaz, has what it takes to equal the career LaRoche seems poised to have, but I don’t think we lose as much as a true lead off hitter, another starter, and possibly a ‘pen lefty brings us.

With a Rocco-type leadoff hitter, one more starter, and possibly a strong lefty, you have to like our chances a heck of a lot better. But even without them, we seem to be in a good position for a division run, and a possible move or two at mid-season.

John

By KC

December 28, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

Efrim D: One more thing. You are correct… you can’t sleep on the Mets. However, I still suspect that you are a Mets fans in disguise, because you sure seem to be looking at that Mets team with love in your eyes.

I’m puzzled by the way you continue to argue how much better Mets offense is, even though the Braves scored more runs.

Again, considering the year Giles is coming off of, there’s no loss from last year to next. So the NL’s best offense in 2006 is still in tact heading into next season.

“Yea 18 GAMES. Did the Braves get all that back from getting Rafael Soriano.”

Dude, Soriano is NOT the only difference on this team. First of all, as I previously mentioned… if Tim Hudson reverts even to his 04/05’ form… this rotation changes drastically. Add to that a fully recovered Mike Hampton, and consider that Chuck James will be in the rotation from day-1 this year… and you have a different rotation this year.

Speaking of Chuck James… I can’t believe you’re trying to diminish this kid by talking about his fly/ground ball ratio. Give me a break dude. You are a Mets fan through and through. Don’t deny it. It’s obvious.

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

Wickman doesn’t miss bats. Wagner does. Heilman is a much better pitcher than either Yates or Boyer. KC, you are jumping into stats two years ago with Boyer. It means absolutly nothing right now, because you havent seen him pitch in a long time. The kid doesnt even cross my mind when I think of potential bullpen arms for the Braves. I would rather Villareal than Boyer. It amazes me that you think Bob Wickman, who just doesnt have great stuff, is even close to a closer who throws 97-99 mph on a consistent basis. Good lord man. The Braves better play good defense in the 9th inning innings if they expect to close out games. The Mets basically sit there and watch Paul Lo Duca catch heat.

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

Efrim You make some good points, but I think you might be giving the Mets a bit too much credit. The 18 games, as you so frequently mention, was done primarily without a closer for the Bravos. The addition of Wickman (while he played a bit over his head) was the one thing that caused the pen to jell. If you look at most of our bullpen, their second half ERA’s were much better than the first half, due to more perfectly defined roles and Wickman’s leadership. Expect an injury or two from both clubs, but don’t underestimate the potential of our 7th inning guys (Yates, McBride, Paronto, Boyer, Devine, and Villarreal). That’s a good 7th inning crew. If Soriano is anything close to what he is capable of, I think we have the edge.

The next thing you do that is a bit of a mistake, is you look at each individual member of the lineup and make comparisons. What you really need to look at is total runs scored. The Bravos were better than the Mets by 15 runs over the course of the year. So, in my book, that is a wash. The deciding factor for 2007 will be which team does the injury bug hit or miss. Even if the Braves trade LaRoche, there will be a dropoff, but it will not be major, as our replacements have the potential to hit 260-25-80 from 1B.

Now, the telling thing is going to be the rotattion. Right now, you can look at either staff, and give a valid argument for which has the advantage, but again, we come down to the injury but (or maybe the coming back from injury factor). So, whether Hudson comes back to pre-2006 levels, and whether Hampton comes back to his earlier success with the Braves, and whether the sophomore jinz visits James, and whether Davies realizes the potential that is definitely there, will all go a long way to determining the success of the Braves. Personally, I expect a better leadoff hitter eventually by the end of spring, and one or two more arms for the bullpen. Don’t be surprised if we get another solid reliever (Ray?) and then flip either him or Soriano to get someone like Baldelli. If that happens and we keep AJ for the year, we could be a WS potential team. Like you said, a lot of “ifs”, but they are not WAY out there ifs.

The Mets also have quite a bit of talent, and if luck goes their way as far as injuries, they too could win it all. Personally, I am puzzled why they did not keep Traschel, as he was a serious innings eater, the almost perfect #4 or #5 starter.

I guess what I am trying to say is that while you make some good points, I think you are too quick to discount our chances for 2007. I really do like our chances.

Go Braves!

By N8

December 28, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

KC

I don’t ALWAYS agree with you, and since my Chiefs are about to get left out of the NFL dance once again (they’re already out - just not mathematically eliminated yet), I’m all geared up for baseball.

I haven’t read through ALL of the posts on this recent blog, but in your last post you failed to mention Bob Wickman.

I’m not sure if he’ll duplicate his save percentage success of last year. But had HE been the ONLY upgrade on our roster over the winter, THAT ALONE would have been enough to cut that 18 game difference between us and the Mets in half, AT THE BARE MINIMUM. Then when you factor in James for a full year, and Hampton returning (my money is on Hampton being more of an “upgrade” for our rotation, then counting on Hudson to rebound). Yes we lost Giles and the Mets GAINED Alou. That should make up some if not all of the ground we had on the Mets in the runs scored department.

But now that Zito has signed with SF, Pedro being out for AT LEAST half the season, and El Duque and Glavine are BOTH older than Smoltz, I’d say our rotation (even with the “unknowns”) is going to WAY make up for the Mets catching us offensively. I’ll assume that Francoeur and McCann improving with the bat, will be offset by Wright and Reyes also improving. Mets bullpen may be deeper with PROVEN guys, but I like the arms we’ve added (Soriano), and have returning from injury (Boyer). Not to mention, I’m not sold on Jose Valentin duplicating his season of last year…we’ll see, I guess.

Like I said. Not sure if our “additions” (including, IMO, the addition by subtractions of Thomson, Sosa, Reitsma, HoRam, and even Giles), will be enough to OVERTAKE the Mets (I’m more worried about the Marlins and that young POWERFUL pitching staff than any OTHER NL East foe), but if I’m not mistaken, had we “won” 9 more games, like I’m SURE we would have with Wickman on board all year, that would’ve been enough to sneak into the wildcard spot. So even if the Mets are still the class of the NL EAST, if we get in the dance, I’ll take my chances with Smoltz, Hampton, James and Hudson in the post season. Because if they’re good enough to get us there, that means they did alright during the regular season, doesn’t it?

Plus, if we DO happen to trade LaRoche (something JS has said we WON’T do unless the Braves are drastically better after the trade), that means we probably just added another bullpen arm like Gonzalez. Hmmmm. Gonzo, Soriano, Boyer, McBride ALL setting up Wickman. Sounds like LIGHTS OUT after the 6th inning if you ask me. Which just so happens to be about as FAR as Hudson can pitch effectively anymore. LOL! So we’ve got that going for us…..which is nice!

Smoltz vs. Glavine in Game 1 of the NLCS?

I’m pretty sure, I know who I’d put MY money on. I’ll go with Geezer #2, thank you. LOL!

By wowbobwow

December 28, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, regarding Centro-matic.i would start with 2003’s “Love You Just The Same”. I think there’s a 99% chance you will be hooked after that. If that one does it for you, then try the second South San-Garbriel record entitled “The Carlton Chronicles” which is a concept album of songs written from the perspective of a cat.I’m telling you, this stuff is incredible. I’m a professional musician and i pay attention to your music posts. And while you seem to have a wide open ear that is accepting of many different genres,it also seems that you tend to gravitate towards American roots music the most, yes? anyways, check it out. Let me know if i’m target here.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, your a Braves fan, damn did not see that one coming. about the Bullpen, 7th I give to the Mets but sanchez did miss half of last season because of a wreck, is he ready to pitch this season and do good? dont know! 9th dude Wagner has only 1 more save in about the same amount of save opportunities as Wickman does. How the hell does that blow the Braves away. and 7th, I give the Mets the Edge on that one but another year from Yates, and I think he will be very good. and by the way the Mets did lose 3 bullpen pitchers via free agency that was very important to them. We still have Paronto(reminds me of Gryboski,and Gryboski was good with Atlanta), Villareal he had a very good year, Cormier we will see what happens, maybe, Devine he has alot of potential, and Sturtz when he comes back in May, at least a good team had him last year and that was the Yankees, its not like he was on some scrub team.

About the Lineup, you must like MONEYBALL alot, it is more to it than Slugging, and OBP, yes they are key but overrated especially the OBP other than the Leadoff guy. At SS I give the advantage to Reyes but slightly over Renteria, Renteria is no sloutch. 2nd Base who knows, I dont see the Mets getting that type of production from Valentine again, 2nd Base is a Wash, 3B if Chipper is healthy, he is better than Wright IF healthy, C McCann is way better than LoDuca, 1B LaRoche had a better year than Delgado and has better defense than Delgado. LaRoche wins that one, RF Francouer wins that one. LF Diaz is a hitting machine, and if you are a Braves fan you would Know that, and Langerhans Is way above average in the outfield especially if he plays LF, Alou might can hit better than Diaz if he stays healthy, he is old, But Alou cant play the defense like Langerhans can. And CF Andruw wins that by a landslide. I do believe the Braves have a better offense and defense than the Mets. Dude what is your argument.

Starting Pitching- Smoltz and Glavine, wash maybe, but Smoltz would have had more wins if it was not for that pathedic bullpen. Hudson way better than Hernandez. Alot of people have come back from Tommy John Surgery and have pitched great, I will name you one(John Smoltz), If healthy, and should be healthy Hampton is way better than Maine, wasnt Maine a rookie last season, dont know for sure. Perez and James, You do know that Perez was louzy for the Pirates and was even pitching in their Minors before the Mets picked him up last season, I give the Edge to James. Davies and Pelfrey, yes Davies has not done much but was hurt almost the whole season, What the hell has Pelfrey done, nothing. I give the Edge slightly to Davies over Pelfrey. Who knows about Pedro, he looks shakey to me, But dont count on him to be the Mets savior. I THINK I WON THAT, DUDE! Yours does not even make sense DUDE! The only thing your argument had was the Mets have a true Leadoff man but that is it, DUDE!

By Greg in TN

December 28, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Greetuns Y’all,

Weird wild stuff on Zito signing with SF. I wonder what south pacific island Bora$ will buy with his commission check. Seven years is just crazy, but that seems to be the prevailing theme this offseason.

I’ll say this about the Mets/Braves rotation debate. I saw Oliver Perez in Cincy in April pitching for the Pirates. Wow. It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. 3.1 innings, 5 ERs, 4 BBs. Trachsel won 15 games last year, but didn’t look particularly dominating. Looks like he got plenty of run support in many of them. He did have a few very solid appearances (Gave up 1 ER and 3 hits in 6 innings on 4/25 against SF in a 4-1 win), but he also bombed out (gave up 3 ERs, 4 hits and 7 BBs against us in a 5-0 loss on 9/4 and gave up 6 ERs on 6 hits, but got bailed out by his offense in a 10-8 win against STL on 8/23). El Duque is going to be 41 next year and was two games above .500 with an ERA just a hair over 4. Maine pitched as well as anyone last year, however the year before in Baltimore, he put up a 6.30 ERA. I like my chances with what we have going into 07.

I won’t be shocked if JS stands pat going into spring training. I don’t think it would be a bad idea to do that anyway. He can usually pull a few rabbits out of his hat during spring training once we get down to Disney and evaluate what we have.

DOB Any word when pitchers and catchers will report?

By N8

December 28, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Efrim D

You said:

“It amazes me that you think Bob Wickman, who just doesnt have great stuff, is even close to a closer who throws 97-99 mph on a consistent basis.”

Here are the stats from last year:

Wickman:

54 IP, 33 Saves, 13 Walks, 42 K’s, 2 HR’s allowed, with a 2.67 ERA

Wagner:

72 IP, 40 Saves, 21 Walks, 94 K’s, 7 HR’s allowed, with a 2.24 ERA

Yes, Wagner pitched more innings. YES, Wagner got more K’s per innings pitched, YES, Wagner allowed about a 1/2 a run less per 9 innings pitched, which basically boils down to what? About 4 less runns ALL YEAR? But if you look “deeper at the stats, it also shows that Wagner allowed more HR’s than Wickman (I seem to remember Wagner giving up a couple of walkoff’s last year - sure is good thing he throws hard, huh?), not to mention he had to pitch 18 more innings to gain 7 more saves than Wickman. What does that tell me? That Randolph didn’t TRUST anybody else to pitch the 8th inning more often than not.

Anyhow. Not trying to say that you are wrong, but really when you look at the numbers, neither are KC and I.

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

Efrim D

Check the stats on Wickman vs Wagner. I was hoping we could pick up Wagner a year ago, but to be honest man, you need to listen to KC. Not much difference in the overall bottom line outcome. Yes, we all like a strikeout guy. Smoltz is the epitome of the heat throwing fireballer we all love, but you are basically saying that because he throws heat Smoltz is worlds better than guys like, say, Greg Madduz or maybe Tom Glavine??? To be honest, they have ALL been great pitchers, but none head and shoulders above the other three. Only Smoltz in that group is a fireballer. So, give old Wicky some credit for being a pitcher, and not a flamethrower.

Whaddyya think??

By KC

December 28, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

You’re killing me dude! You continue to find ways to tell me the stats don’t matter. Screw the fact that Wickman and Wagner have the same closing ratio… Wagner throws harder, so he’s much better. If you’re going to follow that logic out to its end… guess what, Jorge Sosa throws harder than Tom Glavine.

And Boyer missed a year, so he’s off the radar? LOL! Does that mean Pedro’s off the radar too?

Alright dude, whatever you say. Forget the numbers… they’re all wrong for reasons you’ve been kind enough to enlighten us to. The Mets are the Gods of the baseball world. To quote one of my favorite movies… We walk in the garden of their turbulence. I only hope the Braves will be worthy to carry their jockstraps next season.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

How could I forget Boyer and McBride! Efrim D, You are way over your head on this one.

By KC

December 28, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

Ron:

Don’t be so quick to award the 7th inning to the Mets. Again, Boyer may overtake Yates for that job, but we could do a lot worse than Yates.

Again, Yates was called up on May 30th, and had only one bad month (August), but was excellent through the other three months he was in Atlanta. Through the months of June, July, and September (excluding only August), Yates posted a 2.17 ERA. And it’s worth mentioning that he finished strong, posting a 2.70 ERA as the Braves setup man in September.

Between Yates and Boyer, the Braves may yet have the means to turn everything into a 6 inning ballgame.

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

A scouting report on Pelfrey. Sounds similar to what they were saying about Davies 2 years ago…….

One of the best pitching prospects in baseball and armed with 95-mph heat, Pelfrey should get a chance to earn a rotation spot with the Mets out of spring training. At 22 and entering just his second pro season, though, he likely needs some time in Triple-A. He shouldn’t stay there long and will be a rookie of the year candidate for a Mets club that will contend and score ample runs for him. Until he gets command of his secondary pitches (now a hard slider instead of a curve), he will be a middle of the road Fantasy starter.

By NYM

December 28, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

The one thing no one has mentioned is heart and desire. It’s the X factor. The Mets were one game away from the WS. How hungry will they be to take it to the next level. If they are the Braves are in trouble. The other thing that is forgotten is the void that was left when mazzone left. He was the true rock of the pitching staff. his knowledge and experience cannot be overstated……

By KC

December 28, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this

Yes, the Braves re-signed Wickman and added Soriano, but let’s not forget the other arms in this bullpen. Young guys like McBride and Yates appeared to come into their own toward the end of last season, and Villarreal began his return to the form that allowed him to post a 2.57 ERA over 86 appearances for the D-Backs in his rookie season a couple years ago, before requiring Tommy John surgery.

Take a look at the way the 5 returning member of the Braves bullpen (without Soriano or Boyer) performed to end the 2006 season:

Villarreal: 19 innings, 1.42 ERA in September/October.

McBride: Posted a 1.91 ERA from July 16th on.

Yates: 2.70 ERA as Braves setup man in Sept./Oct.

Paronto: 3.27 ERA in Sept./Oct. (pretty consistent with his 3.18 ERA for the season).

And we don’t even need to talk about Wickman. We all know he was nearly perfect as a Brave.

By Greg in TN

December 28, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

NYM, that is true, however that can also work to our advantage as well. There is a lot of pride in the clubhouse at the Ted, and there will be many that will want to prove to the baseball world that 2006 was a fluke rather than a trend.

Mazzone moving to Baltimore is a loss, but I like what McDowell has done with the staff this year. Much of the trials and tribulations the staff went through can’t be placed at his feet.

By KC

December 28, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

NYM:

Mazzone is a great pitching coach. While I don’t think he’s overrated as a pitching coach… I think his impact on a team has been blown up a bit. The Braves do not miss Mazzone.

The biggest problems facing the pitching staff: injuries and Hudson’s underperformance… had nothing to do with who the pitching coach was. And there were numerous signs that he did a great job in his first season as a pitching coach.

Last year, Roger McDowell helped Horacio Ramirez cut his HR/9 inning ratio in half from 05 to 06. He helped a guys Yates and Paronto become productive relievers, where they had failed with their previous teams. And he helped develop Macay McBride into one of the better lefty middle relievers in the league by the end of last season.

By Ron Roberts

December 28, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

KC…

Just curious, man… what do you do all day? You’re alllll over this thing today man. LOL

Allow the dipstick to disagree w/ya. There’s got to be better things to do w/your fulllllll day than argue the potential of bullpens in a particular inning, wouldn’t ya think?

Til somebody knocks ‘em off, the Mets are the NL East champs, and on paper I think ink tends to dry.

But I’d take the Braves roster - as is into the ‘07 season with optimism.

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

KC, In any of your posts you are failing to say anything about Sanchez and Heilman. These guys are very good setup men. Granted, Id take Soriano over both of them, but are you honestly saying that Blaine Boyer is better than Aaron Heilman. DUDE ARE YOU NUTZ?????? Heilman is more than solid.

“Between Yates and Boyer, the Braves may yet have the means to turn everything into a 6 inning ballgame”

That may be the dumbest comment I have heard in my entire life. Since when did Tyler Yates, and Blaine Boyer become Scott Shields and Justin Speier????? As far as Wagner giving up more Home Runs……..

Bite me. If you try and justify Wickman being a comparable closer to Billy Wagner, WHO THE BRAVES TRIED SIGN!!!!, then you have no idea what you are talking about. Dont mention Home Runs by the way KC. Your boy Chucky will give up more bombs the some entire starting staff’s. AND ONE MORE THING, i put this part in caps because your comment made me furious, DO NOT USE BLAINE BOYER IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS PEDRO MARTINEZ…..EVER AGAIN!!!! even if it was just to make an example.

By brian

December 28, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

What do you all think about the Hudson contract now? Doesn’t look so bad does it, especially for next year. Zito is a good pitcher, but not at that price. I cannot believe the Giants would sign any pitcher for 7 years at that price.

By KC

December 28, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

Ron:

Good call on the Gryboski/Paronto similarities. Paronto will likely be used in the same way in 07’ that Grybo used to be used by BC when he was here… ground ball double-play specialist.

Alright, gotta wrap it up for real this time. G’night ya’ll.

By David O'Brien

December 28, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

Ron, funny you should ask, since I had to get that date today so we could reserve our house down there. Pitchers & catchers report Feb. 14, first workout Feb. 15. Other position players report Feb. 20, first full-squad Feb. 21.

Wowbobwow, yes, definitely gravitate towards Americana/rootsy stufrf as I’ve gotten older, but my Replacements/Husker Du/Clash zeal hasn’t waned.

Just found out today that Centro-matic is opening for DBTs here in their shows Sat-Sun at Variety Playhouse. Not sure if I’m gonna go, ‘cause I’d have preferred the Saturday (Dec. 30) show and it’s sold out. New Year’s Eve ain’t my thing anymore, man.

Anyway, read that Patterson Hood considered Centro-matic’s most recent release to be a “masterpiece” and just loves the band in general.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

KC, Dude I do admit that the Mets 7th inning will probably be better than the Braves 7th, But only because Heilman I think is a little ahead of the curve than Yates or Boyer, but I did say that Yates having a full season might be alot better and it might be quite even. But Hey Heilman was a former first round draft pick for the Mets a few seasons ago so lets give the Mets a win in at least 1 area, I gave the Braves a win In every other category, if you remember my second to last post. Yeah it cost them a First Round draft pick a few years ago to be their 7th inning pitcher, haha! What was Yates, and Boyer, not first round I guarantee you that.

By Efrim D

December 28, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you know who Aaron Heilman is? Don’t you think he is a better bet than Tyler Yates or Blaine Boyer for the 2007 season?

By Ron

December 28, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Ron Roberts, DAMN dude your 10:13 post was freakin hillarious, Hell I am still laughin dude, You got to be the Blog Clown, And I am being serious. Look at some previous blogs and make fun of them, even if it was one of my previous blogs, so what just make fun of them, I am still laughin.

By Greg in TN

December 28, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB! I knew they reported right around the middle of the month.

Efrim. I think Heilman is a solid guy in the 7th, but I don’t agree that you need to have a flamethrower in the ninth to get a save consistantly.

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

All bloggers EXCEPT Efrim D

I thought we were dealing with an uninformed blok, but it is obvious with his RANTING AND RAVING of 10:16 that he has no clue. While we were giving decent arguments pro and con for both teams, he was obviously not listening, or else his brain is so small it can’t really deal with facts and logic. Nobody said Heilman was not a good reliever, but over the course of 90-95 wins, a bullpen needs more than 3 individuals, and he can’t get past Wagner (obviously the greatest reliever who ever lived), Heilman (obviously the SECOND greatest reliever EVER) and Sanchez (who is the ONLY reliever in history able to comeback from any sort of injury). I think the rest of the NYM pen went to Baltimore or somewhere.

Our laugh will be the last laugh. Mets are STILL intimidated by the Braves and their legacy to get it done, even with a 80 Mil budget.

So, Efrim, please disregard this post, as you don’t want to get a headache, and you cannot get off your tired arguments. All others, it will be fun to watch the Mets get their A*******E$ bitten by the Bravos in 07!

By double j

December 28, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

The mets…They are standing on their last leg. They have all the has beens and 3 newbies(yes good ones at that). I think the AARP should by the mets. I would be an investment worth in old people.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, dude we know that Heilman is better than Yates or Boyer right now, at least I know that Heilman is better Right now. I even gave you credit for that one. Later on in the year might be a different story, but to start the season I do agree about Heilman, or until Yates, or Boyer can prove otherwise.

By Wayne in Utah

December 28, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this

ALL non-Efrim D bloggers

Some 2006 ERA’s (Heilman’s 2nd best year out of 4 years)

Heilman 3.62

Yates 3.96

Boyer (05) 3.11

Villarreal 3.61

Devine (1st two games) 63.00 Devine (last 8 games) 0.00

Heilman is DEFINITELY WORLDS better than all of our guys.

:-)

By wowbobwow

December 28, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

DOB, don’t get your hopes up just yet, because its way late in the game for me to be asking, but i’m going to make a call and see if i can get you on the guest list. Patterson is refering to the album “Fort Recovery” which is no doubt a solid offering, but the quote was made to try and get some much needed press for a band that needs it. “Love You Just The Same” is a masterpiece. If you only get one, get that one.

By flbravesgirl

December 28, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em, recipe is on it’s way. Sorry about the delay.

For that contract he probably would’ve gone to Antarctica but I always figured Zito would stay on the Wset Coast anyway. Couldn’t ever picture him in NY.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, dude and we did not even have to give up a first round pick to get Yates or Boyer, that is sweet. Oh yeah the Mets had to give up a first round pick for Heilman, yes we had to give up a first round pick for Devine but he was a late first round pick. Heilman was a top 15 pick, Huge difference. I figured you would try to make an argument about that, that is why I said it first. Dude you are so a Met fan, dont even lie about that either.

By TLJ

December 28, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

The Mets are going to be a good team next year and will compete for the divison title. However, age is going to be a concern for them. Look at their ages:

C - 34 1b - 34 2b - 36 ss - 23 3b - 23 lf - 41 cf - 29 rf - 33

sp - 40 sp - 40 sp - 35 sp - 34 (on DL) sp - 25

CL - 34

Age could quickly catch up more than one of them next year. I think the Phillies will be the team to watch and of course I think the Braves will be right up there.

By Ron

December 28, 2006 11:47 PM | Link to this

DOB, When you gonna post another Blog dude. You gonna write one up before New Years Eve. Heck just write something up, talk about potential trades, anything, dude, 1 more before New Years Eve.

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this

wowbobwow, thanks for even trying for 30th. And “Love You Just the Same” will be the CD I purchase first. If I go to the show, I’m sure they’ll have some for sale there.

Ron, we’ll get another blog up by New Year’s Eve. Don’t know what it’ll include, but we’ll post by then.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this

Efrim, dude, I’m sorry but your arguments are flawed. You are right about Chipper but the very same Braves offense except Giles will be back and OUTSCORED the Mets last year. I guarantee that Johnson and Aybar between them will match Giles’ output last season. Alou isn’t really that much of an upgrade over Floyd so I just don’t see where the Mets offense is SO much better than the Braves. With regrads to the bullpen you are saying Wagner is better than Wickman because he throws harder. So, what?!!!!! What happened to the 97 mph fastball in the NLCS? That’s right, the Cardinals hit all over the field. The Mets offense that you are holding so highly got shut down by a mediocre pitching staff in the NLCS. I’m not saying the Mets are horrible because they obviously aren’t. But, they are not marginally better than the Braves, Phillies, or Marlins and that is just a fact. I”m sure Minaya isn’t through but he between a rock and a hard place. Any team he attempts to get a starter from will ask for a king’s ransom. It will take more than Milledge. Any team he deals with will demand at least one of their “young stud” pitchers. I really don’t think the Marlins will give away Dontrelle to the Mets because they believe they can win the division this year, so why would they give Dontrelle away to the Mets for Milledge. Any Mets fans who are hoping for that can give it up. The Mets don’t have any position players to offer. Nobody wants Green, Valentin, or Franco. Minaya can’t give away anyone else so what is he going to do? He will have to give away prospects that they will be counting on next season. Dude, look at things objectively. Would you seriously take Oliver Perez over Chuck James? C’mon, man. I know you have to be kidding. The Mets will be good but not like they were last year and when you really look at last year you have to wonder how good they really were. If the Braves didn’t have the rash of injuries that they had, would have the Mets beat the Braves by 18 games? No. The Cardinals exposed every weakness I said the Mets had. If the Mets had been in the NL East they would have finished 3rd at best. Its a fact. Same goes for the Braves but I’m not here trying to make it sound like the Braves are the second coming of the ‘27 Yankees either. The Mets are very good, but so are the Braves, Phillies, Marlins, Dodgers, Padres, Cubs, Astros, Reds, and Brewers. Most, if not, all of whom can claim they are just as good as the Mets.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this

One more thing before I retire for the night. DOB can correct me if I’m way off base. But, I think something big is about to go down. It seems very strange to me how all of a sudden the rumors just went silent. I know the week between Christmas and New Year’s is the week baseball teams shut down, but obviously some GMs are hard at work. No mention of Melkey Cabrera. The Yanks are obviously busy during the week. Notice how the Mike Gonzles thing just went away. Not to mention nobody came out to deny those rumors about that trade and I don’t buy the whole it was so ridiculous that it didn’t deserve a response argument because last week wasn’t the first time it had been mentioned. I, also, find it funny how the Will Carol article about the three way trade with three BIG

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 12:54 AM | Link to this

Robert (JITB)

Sorry man, I gotta disagree with you on one point……I don’t think the Cubbies have a snowballs chance in you know where.

:-)

Does Zito going to SF mean the Rangers will make a play for Hudson?? If so, then who would we ask for, unless it’s a 3-4 way trade. I like their reliever Otsuka. Getting one more stud bullpen guy would allow us to package Soriano with Escobar to TB for Baldelli. Then we could ship Adam to Baltimore for a couple of pitchers, or maybe Markakis and a pitcher.

Whadddyya think?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this

I accidentally hit the “enter” button so I’m going to finish my thought. Anyway, I find it funny that the Will Carol article has got no response from any of the teams involved. I know people just throw crap out there all the time but I looked over that Baseball Prospectus site and it looks to be quite legitimate so I doubt that they would just post a bunch of lies for the sake of doing it. This Carol guy probably has some inside info just like the Bucco Blog. Something big is about to go down and I think it will happen by the weekend of the Jan. 12-14. It is just a feeling I have.

JS knows, especially now, that unless a miracle from the hand of God happens there is no way Andruw Jones is a Brave in 2008 so he has to get his replacement NOW! And while Blanco and Bohn could both be very good players and even starters on this team, neither one are the replacement for Andruw. Baldelli, Rios, Looney or someone of that ilk is. Isn’t it also funny how Alex Rios’ name has all of a sudden disappeared from site as well. I read the other day that JP Ricardi (Blue Jays GM) said that he won’t deal with the Braves because JS is too smart. What kind of sense does that make? DOB, had you heard that? I don’t care how smart a GM is you are going to deal with them if they can get you what you want. Sounds like a smokescreen to me.

Like I said, something big is going to happen. JS himself said that some moves will be made whether they are seen as small or big is one’s perception. Those werent’ his exact words but basically what he said. The Braves want Baldelli like a fat kid wants cake and JS knows how to get what he wants. He will find someway to get either Baldelli or someone like him. I could be wrong. I guess we will see.

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this

Robert

In case you are still online. I like your thinking about getting 08’s CF in 07. Also, I agree with your ascertion that something is in the works. I am betting on a 3-4 way deal. Adam to someone who needs a hitter for pitching, then parlaying some pitching to TB for Rocco. I personally think Hudson is going to have a comeback year, but if we can get a good CF or stud reliever, then I say let him go.

It’s getting late, even here out west…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 01:21 AM | Link to this

I could see the Braves offering Hudson for Feldman and Otsuka. Then settling on offering LaRoche to the O’s for Penn and Ray or just making a play to do a straight swap for Bedard. Then flippping Ray to the Devil Rays along with Escobar and Salty (only if they had to) to get Baldelli.

I also could see the Braves offering Hudson and LaRoche to the O’s for Ray, Bedard, and Markakis. Then flipping Ray to the Devil Rays. I don’t know if the O’s would go for that though. JS would need to make a strong pitch to them that they need to make the deal to stay in contention in the AL East. The O’s are in a precaroius situation because they are losing their fan base and have to do something to show they are trying to contend right now.

I think the Indians could be a possible trade partner as well. Perhaps, the Braves could get Cliff Lee. I, also, wouldn’t count out the Angels either. There have been some rumblings that their owner, Arite Moreno, isn’t too happy with the inactivity so far this winter. I think the Hillenbrand signing could have been as insurance for the offense. He could likely be the DH, which would still mean they have interest in LaRoche. More than one report surfaced they were interested in Zito. If the Braves offered a package of Hudson and LaRoche for Santana, Kotchman, and Erick Aybar would they say no. Maybe. Maybe not. A lot of peopel think Aybar is a star in the making for CF.

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 01:39 AM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), just so you know, Baseball Prospectus is very legit and quite well-informed and informative on statistical analysis, trends, etc. One of the better sites for any of that kind of stuff.

Will Carroll is not some newly arrived self-promoter with a blog masquerading as a journalist. He’s been around, has a good rep, and is especially well-versed in baseball injuries and recoveries. BP is a hardcore “seamhead” baseball site.

Now, how connected he is regarding personnel moves and trade discussions, I have no idea. I believe this “unfiltered” blog, or whatever they’re calling it, is relatively new at BP. I could be wrong, but that’s my impression, that it’s something new they’re doing, kind of getting onboard with the gossip and trade-rumor stuff that’s so prevalent now across the Internet.

That note about the Braves seemed a bit extreme, and like I said, I’ll be surprised if the Braves make more than one or two more trades, and not more than one big one, if that. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but that’s what I’m being led to believe by folks in the organization and with other organizations who’ve talked to the Braves. The Braves are not desperate by any stretch of the imagination.

OK, hope that helps at least some. The gist of it: Baseball Prospectus is solid and thought-provoking on a lot of statistical discussions, trends, etc. But I’ve never known them to be a place to break news of trades. That was a pretty wide net he cast the other day. We’ll see what comes of it. I don’t know.

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 01:41 AM | Link to this

That’s why we live for this time of season. Some nights I completely redo the Braves roster on my spreadsheet. Other nights, I tear myself away and study another team, trying to make them better with some moves. (I always want to trade with the Braves, because I know our farm system….)

Anyway, I wish I could have had a chance to meet JS about 20 years ago. I think we would have been buds, he only being about 10 years older than me. He would have seen what a shrewd wheeler-dealer I am, and would have brought me on to be his assistant, and now I would be in line to take over the Braves, RIGHT as they are going back to Ted Turner, so I could have just a few more bucks to spend. Gotta at least keep up with inflation.

I was a major league wanna be as a teenager, but I was a skinny punch and judy first sacker, who was a slick fielder, but was 6’1” and 140 as a 17 year old. Warning track power. Oh well, I am sure the fame and fortune would have just went to my head, and I would have probably turned out similar to that poor sap Chris Brown, torched in Houston. (I actually liked him as a player in the 80’s when I lived out there.)

I am rambling and telling my story to folks who could give a rat’s a$$. Oh well, I bet the story I am telling is not unfamiliar to others out there.

Boy do we love our hot stove!!!

:-)

By Alex Rios

December 29, 2006 02:22 AM | Link to this

Watch me reappear.

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 02:45 AM | Link to this

Check the stats. Reggie Sanders has alternated good/bad years for the past 12 years. We got him in 2000 and his bad years are even numbered, so in 2007 he should be ready for another good year. If you don’t believe me, go to CBS Sportsline and check his stats. KC is grooming young OF’s and he might be had for a minimal bullpen arm or a mid level prospect. I think he is signed for one more year, which would be perfect. Could he help us in LF and off the bench next year, since it is CERTAIN he is due for another good year.

Check it out.

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 02:48 AM | Link to this

Besides, Reggie is a South Carolina boy who comes from Florence. That’s a good thing!

By Brian Jordan

December 29, 2006 02:53 AM | Link to this

Wait a minute dude, I am the same age as Reggie Sanders, and I had a good year about 5 years ago, plus, I am cheaper than Reggie Sanders, plus I can play 1B if we trade Mr. Forgetful.

Come on John and Bobby, give me just one more chance, I really think I can pull it off this time. No kidding. I can be your LF platoon, backup at first, and your hero off the bench, plus, I am a lot better looking than Reggie Sanders.

Daryl Ward ain’t got nothin on me man, and besides, I am from Baltimore, and that is almost the south, isn’t it…..

By Reggie Sanders

December 29, 2006 03:00 AM | Link to this

Brian J

Man, you all washed up bro. You played way too much “fooz ball” and you know what mama says, fooz ball is the devil!

If you were smart like me, you would be pulling down 5 mil a year, while only having to work hard every other year.

Hey, John and Bobby, send some Salty dude or some Elvis character over to your buddy Drayton in KC, and I’ll come on over and solve all your problems. Don’t listen to that washed up Brian Jordan. He washed up man. He ain’t squat. Like that first dude said, besides, I’m from “Socr Liner”, just over the border. Mama always said I was destined to be a big hit in “Hot ‘Lanta” before my time was through. Besides, heck if Roger Clemens can do it into his 40’s, I can too. Besides, I only gotta try hard every other year.

Give ole Drayton a call “homeboy.” Work something out and get ole Reggie back to town.

By DAP

December 29, 2006 03:00 AM | Link to this

its looks to me like effrim is starting to get ticked off because KC is making him realize what an idiot he is.

I have to give it to you, KC , i wouldnt even have the patience to respond to such a seemingly mindless person.

effrim, you cant just say wagner is better, and put a period at the end and expect us to buy that. and geez, you say it over and over. the stats show that wickman and wagner are comparable as closers. no one thinks wagner is a bad closer, but we think wickman is pretty good to, but apparently you dont.

strikeouts dont matter in baseball, outs do, no matter how you get them. thats why chuck james wins, because he gets outs. and youre right, he did give up quite a few homeruns in his starts…but those were usually the only runs he gave up. he still had a decent ERA and won games, so who cares?

and dont bring up james again when talking about wagner and wickman. james has nothing to do with that. if you have no argument, which you dont, then dont waste our time and just say nothing.

better to be silent, and be thought a fool, than to….well, you know.

By Blog Police

December 29, 2006 03:05 AM | Link to this

Washed up major league players please cease and desist from begging for playing time on Mr. O’Briens blog. This is a place for only serious discussions between individuals who have nothing better to do, like sleep or work or anything productive.

Why some even blog to themselves when nobody else is around. Get a life folks, or go to bed!

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 03:15 AM | Link to this

DAP: I don’t know where that dude is coming from. I think he is a closet Mets fan that just wants to stir up some crap over here in Braves land. I love a good conversation with someone who makes some sense, even when we disagree, but he takes the cake.

He is probably from NEW YORK CITY. (get the rope….)

Us transplanted southerners can spot them dang Mets fans from a mile away.

Ain’t it bedtime yet?

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 03:23 AM | Link to this

I am still not convinced Aybar is the right man to be on standby for Chipper’s place when he is down or needs a rest. Is guys like Rob Mackowiak or Corey Koskie possibilities? They both bat left and are pretty versatile? Equally likely both are possibly washed up too.

By Shaun

December 29, 2006 07:40 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah,

Aybar will be a fine utility infielder. He’s a similar player to Wilson Betemit. Aybar has more range, better plate discipline and more speed. Betemit has more power and probably has better hands and a better arm.

Aybar will be at least as valuable as Betemit was to the Braves, maybe more valuable because he is better suited for a significant amount of playing time at secondbase.

By Shaun

December 29, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best,

Kind of off subject, but the Baseball Prospectus guys wrote Baseball Between the Numbers book that I’m always annoying everyone with. Probably the most intelligent group of baseball people assembled on one website.

By ncscoots

December 29, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this

The comparisons between the Mets starters and the Braves starters (as now constituted) is interesting. Efrim, I think the Mets are in a similar situation as the Braves in 2006, i.e., Mets would need a career year from a historical journeyman (Maine) and a prospect to blossom (Pelfrey). That could certainly happen, but it does introduce an element of uncertainty to the viability of their SP.

Playoff math is pretty simple: win two-thirds of the starts made by your top three, and half of the starts made by your fourth and fifth. That will give you the wild card in just about any year, and anything above that should contend for the division.

In actuality, Smoltz and Hudson both came close to doing their part last year (think the Braves won 40 or so of their starts), but the rest of the staff didn’t carry the load (injuries, underperformance, the bullpen implosions, etc., etc., etc.). Almost certainly, the return of Hampton and 30-35 starts by James should improve that. Unfortunately, my jury is still out on Davies/Cormier/whoever in the fifth slot. That starter may only make 25 starts, but you can’t just give those games away, either.

So, at least in January, Braves’ SP would seem to have more likelihood of generating a playoff-caliber team winning percentage than the Mets’ SP. But we’ll have to play 162 to find out for sure.

By TLJ

December 29, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

I have looked at the Mets and Braves projected roster for the 2007 season and on paper the Braves have the better team. You be the GM and decide what players you want for 2007.

C McCann or DeLuca - The choice is McCann, he had a better season in 2006, is younger and will only get better.

1B LaRoche or Delgado - The choice is LaRoche, they had similar seasons last year. LaRoche is younger and getting better. He is a much better defense player.

2B Valentin or ? - The choice by default is Valentin. It appears the braves second baseman will be Kelly Johnson, if so he will put similar numbers and this would be a wash. For now it is Valentin.

SS Renetria or Reyes - This is close both had similar numbers last year. Reyes is younger and has lots more speed. The choice is Reyes.

3B Jones or Wright - This is also close, again they had similar numbers last year. Wright is younger and played in more games. The choice is Wright.

LF Diaz or Alou - Alou had the better numbers last year and is the choice.

CF Jones or Beltran - Again this is close, both are excellent players. Beltran has more speed and hits for a higher average. Jones has more raw power and is a better defensive player. The choice is Jones.

RF Francoeur or Green - Not close at all, Francoeur is the choice.

Bench - As a group the Mets have the better bench.

SP Smoltz or Glavine - Both are great pitchers, had good seasons last year and headed for the HOF. If you could only have one the choice would be Smoltz (besides he throws harder , right effrim?)

SP Hudson or Hernandez - Even in an off season Hudson is better. The choice is Hudson

SP Hampton or Maine - Until proven differently, Hampton is better than Maine. The choice is Hampton

SP James or Trachel (is he still with nthe Mets?) - James is the choice

SP Davies or Peltry - Both are unknown so we will call this even.

CL Wickman or Wagner - Both have been very successful and you couldn’t go wrong with either. However I would chose Wagner because there are times when you need a strike out and he is more likely to get one. Besides he throws harder (right effrim? The choice is Wagner

Middle Relief, I will consider them as a group as I did the bench. Braves bullpen is improved due to the trade, recovery from injuries and additional experience. Mets bullpen lost 2 or 3 pitchers to FA, one is recovering from an auto accident and one is suspended for 1/3 of the season. Their bull pen is similar to the braves last year.

Manager Cox or Rudolph - Each has his strength and weakness. Cox get the choice due to his experience.

Position Players - Braves 4 Mets 4 Bench Mets Starting Pitchers - Braves 4 Mets 0 Closer - Mets Middle and Long Relief - Braves

Manager - Braves

Defense - With the exception of SS and 3B braves are better than the Mets in the other 6 positions.

As everyone knows you win with pitching and defense. ” Disclaimer I did not consider Pedro because he is not ready to pitch and not sure when he will be able to “. Braves have better pitching, better defense and a better offense. If you question this look up the stats.

On paper Braves are a better team entering the 2007 year. This does not mean they will win the division or even make the playoffs. A lot of things can happen between now and end of the season. Injuries are a large part of deciding what happens ( chipper and pedro ). On paper Braves are the better team

By JCB

December 29, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Efrim D, you said this “Yea 18 GAMES. Did the Braves get all that back from getting Rafael Soriano. Im sorry I just dont think they did.”

The only reason the Braves were 18 games back was that terrible month when they went 6-21. Out of those 21 games lost, 9 of them were lost by players that will not be with us next year(Thomson -2, Sosa -4, and Ramirez -2, and Remlinger -1) Smoltz and Huddy accounted for 7 of those those loses, cant expect that to happen again. So yes Soriano will help us in keeping from being so bad.

By A.Source

December 29, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Someone familiar with the NY Mets has leaked information regarding the Mets desparation to make a big offseason splash. Reportedly, the Mets have contacted agents for Roger Clemens,Jeff Weaver,Chris Rietsma,and Babe Ruth. No word yet on any responses. ….. this just in…citing “clerical errors and an obvious mistake”…the source now reports no contact has been made with the agent for Chris Riestma.

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

Efrim D: “Yea 18 GAMES. Did the Braves get all that back from getting Rafael Soriano. Im sorry I just dont think they did.”

The stat that really stands out from 2006 was 29 blown saves. You aren’t just adding Soriano, you’re adding Wickman as well. Add back in just half of those blown saves, we’ll call it 14, and you’re “18 games” is reduced to 4. The Braves gains to the rotation combined with the Mets losses, at this point, are enough to make up 4 games.

Obviously, all this is speculation and subject to further change. But to expect the bullpen, with both Wickman and Soriano added, to perform as dismally as in 2006 is not realistic.

Hey, I’m not so fanatical as to expect the Braves to win every time out, but watching them blow so many games last year was painful.

By NYM

December 29, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

VOR….Blown saves happens to every team. If the Mets had half of their blown saves they would have won over 100 games. I do get what you’re saying though, but again, if you added back wins to every team for half of their blown saves would the Braves have won the Wild Card?

By Shaun

December 29, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

CF Jones or Beltran - Again this is close, both are excellent players. Beltran has more speed and hits for a higher average. Jones has more raw power and is a better defensive player. The choice is Jones.

Andrew Jones is obviously a great player, but Beltran may have been one of the top 3 players in the NL last season.

RF Francoeur or Green - Not close at all, Francoeur is the choice.

Depends on whether Francouer can avoid making an out in over 70 percent of his plate appearances again.

By MBATL

December 29, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

The comparison between the Braves and Mets is interesting, but to me, the fate of the ‘07 season depends on the performance of our #2 and #3 starters, Hudson and Hampton.

Smoltz will be solid; no reason to think James won’t be at least good as a #4 (he’s never had a bad year, anywhere); and between Davies, Cormier, Villareal, etc, we should be adequate at #5.

We pretty much know that we’ll score runs - probably not as many as last year, but plenty to win games. (the numbers really were skewed by a couple of weeks of double-digit games in July … and we couldn’t score in June, for some reason; so I don’t think our offense is ‘the best in the league’ by any means, but it’s adequate).

And we know that with Wickman, Soriano, and Boyer added since last spring, the ‘pen will be much improved.

Not much pop off the bench; Thorman is the only guy with much power, but that’s a minor concern.

Hudson pretty much admitted, in a radio interview a couple of weeks ago on 790 the Zone, that in retrospect he could’ve/should’ve trained harder in the offseason and during the season; he didn’t admit to being lazy, but said he underestimated how much work he needed to do to maintain stamina. Said that ‘07 will be different.

Hampton has to be considered a wild card, just because of the injury, his age, and a long layoff. No reason to think he won’t be good, but we won’t really know til he starts pitching.

If Hudson and Hampton can pitch around 180 - 200 innings and post era’s of about 4 or less, the Braves should have a great year (barring major injuries, of course).

By Lew

December 29, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

NYM-It’s not just a matter of reducing every team’s blown saves by 50%-It’s a matter of changing or replacing the REASON for those blown saves. I don’t think that anyone who has a clue about baseball would say the Braves are likely to repeat their inadequacies in thae relief department. It just won’t happen again. Replacing Reitsma (injured, no less) with Wickman and adding Soriano as a set up man definitely mitigates this situation in a very real fashion. Now you keep accusing me of being a Mets hater. Exactly what is wrong with that? I’m a Braves fan. I don’t really care if the 2007 Mets lose more games than they did in 1962. In fact, nothing would make me any happier. It’s called rivalry, Dude. I have no harsh feelings towards you personally, or Metro Man or any Mets fan that comes on this blog and argues in a good natured fashion. I do have a problem with people like NLChamps, who posted here all last year in a less than friendly fashion. I have problems with people who in the name of rivalry come here and give is piles of bovine excrement and kick us when we’re down. But don’t ask me to be a Mets fan. It just isn’t going to happen. Like when I was in grad school at UGA-They had a very popular bumper sticker that claimed “My favorite teams are the Dawgs and whoever plays Florida”. I see nothing wrong with this sentiment and I will cheer for the Braves and whoever plays the Mets.

By David-ATL14

December 29, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

DOB, have seen Susan Slusser in various TV appearances since the Zito signing, easy on the eyes.Probably makes the SF trip a little more scenic than it already is.

By Shaun

December 29, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

Lew, NYM,

The Braves lost a lot of close games just because of misfortune, bad luck, whatever you want to call it. We should expect the Braves to be better not only because of slightly more/better talent but also because of better fortune, luck, whatever.

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

NYM - Of course, I agree that every team has blown saves. My point, though, was that 29 blown saves is an anomaly that won’t occur again (God willing). The Braves got a team leading 18 saves from Wickman after his late season arrival; and he blew only 1, I think. He saved 15 games for Cleveland prior to that. I wasn’t trying to rewrite last seasons W-L’s by his and Soriano’s presence, just project the inevitable improvement for 2007.

By NYM

December 29, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

Lew, It’s all good. I know what you mean. I have zero love for the Braves. But I do enjoy the trash talk and the rivalry. I do sense Brave fans feel the Mets are vulnerable since they didn’t sign Zito. The Mets core is still there. There were questions last year with the pitching and they won 97 games. We’ll be fine. It should be a great season….have a happy New Year.

By Shaun

December 29, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

TLJ,

I agree with you overall assessment, more or less. The Mets are overrated by most and the Braves are underrated by most. I don’t think the Mets will repeat their 2006 record and the Braves are almost certain to be better. It’s anybody’s guess as to who will win the NL East. I can see any one of four teams winning the division in 2007 (all except the Nationals, but who knows?).

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

BTW, Lew: I, too, am a real fan. As I sit here working, sort of, in late December, in the midst of NCAA bowl season, I’m wearing my Braves jersey and cap. I’m not sure what that says about me, but I do love my - emphasize my - Braves. And I do respect the Mets, even if I don’t like them. Rivalries make it fun, don’t you think?

By MGL

December 29, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Some of you doubting Thomases (esp Efrim) don’t give Hampton and Hudson enough credit. They are both very high in character, very competitive, and are working hard to be in top form next year. There were a couple of articles during the year that talked about how hard Hampton was working during rehab. He certainly did not take the year off. Hudson has committed to a strong effort to build stamina during the off-season and I believe that he will do that. Perhaps they should also require him to eat with Paronto and Wickman.

Both have a lot at stake in 2007, financially as well as personally. I have no doubt they will both have great seasons.

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

As to Hampton’s recovery: He has had a full 18 month (recommended) recovery period, and has already, through off-season simulated games, experienced many of the setbacks that many pitchers face during a regular season comeback. For instance, most pitchers will experience a downturn following the normal tearing of scar tissue. Hampton’s already had that occurrence. Let’s face it, would you rather see a recovering Hampton or a bloated Sosa? I’d rather see Hampy throw it up there righthanded in place of Sosa…

Bloated Sosa… Sounds like it could be one of DOB’s favorite bands…

By Efrim D

December 29, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

DAP, Of course you guys are loving what KC is saying, because he is saying things positive about the Braves. This is a Braves Blog, is it not? Stop thinking Wickman is better than Wagner. He isn’t. And don’t think for one second that Adam Laroche is a better bet for 2007 than Carlos Delgado. Please. ESPN, FOXSPORTS, BASEBALL AMERICA, and every other publication will have the Mets finishing in front of the Braves next year. I can guarantee you that. Although the Phillies are the team to beat next year in the division. I live in NYC and it is very sad to hear you all think the Braves are so good. All of your arguments about the Braves 7th inning relievers are so stupid. Blaine Boyer and Tyler Yates over Aaron Heilman. Ridiculous. The Mets have an edge in Offense and Bullpen. I will agree that as of right now the Braves probably have a SLIGHT edge in Starting Pitching. But enough with the bullpen and offense. The Braves did score the second most runs last year. But remember the team won a lot of 13-3 games. But would lose a lot of close games because of an awful bullpen and an offense that was not as clutch as the Mets. For all you say about Wickman in the second half of last year, you mention nothing about the Mets dominating with the same starting staff that they will open 2007 with. They went out in the second half with GLAVINE EL DUQUE MAINE O PEREZ AND PELFREY(at times) lesser pitchers at other times…dave williams. They still kicked the Braves a* in the second half of last year. Since I live in NYC, I know what the radio, beat reporters think about next year…..THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE MARLINS AND PHILLIES, NOT ATLANTA. Why should I think the Braves will beat the Mets out next year???

By Charles

December 29, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

I certainly believe that, along with new members, leadership has a great deal to do with it. If the veteran Braves step-up into leadership positions (Jones boys, Smotlz who are always leaders) it will make a difference in the on-field work. Hudson’s willingness to change his workouts to increase his stamina is a marked improvement in leadership. One thing that helped the Mets last year was Glavine’s leadership. But I think that the Braves have the leadership in their veterans that will make 2007 the start of a new streak.

By KC

December 29, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

NYM: The Mets are vulnerable. You can’t sit idle while your key division rival improves considerably. I think Alou is a fine addition, but given the fact that Pedro will miss at least half the season, and the uncertainty that will surround him when he does return, along with a few of the relievers that departed… the Mets are actually a little weaker than they were at the start of last season. That does not bode well for that Mets given that the Braves are likely to return (at least) to their familiar 90-100 win form.

To be honest, I feel the Mets overachieved a bit last year, aided by the pathetic state of the NL last year. Don’t get me wrong, I think that’s a positive, not a negative for NY. The Mets overcame thin starting pitching and the loss of Pedro for much of the season. Their offense and bullpen allowed them to do that. That’s where Atlanta couldn’t match them (the bullpen). Had the Braves had the same bullpen the Mets boasted, they could have made it a race in the NL East, and would have handily won the Wild Card. The good news for Braves fans (and bad news for Mets fans) is that they do now have a bullpen to rival (or top) the Mets pen. Add to that superior starting pitching, and the Metropolitans are in trouble.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the Mets will have a good team this year, and could make a race of it. But right now, I think a Wild Card berth looks much more likely than a repeat as NL East champs.

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Efrim: It matters very little what you or I or ESPN or anyone else thinks will happen in 2007. It will all play out on the field. Our choice to have a mostly civil discussion about acquisitions and their projected impact is for the purpose of personal enjoyment of baseball fans. You, however, seem to get a bit worked up over the differing of opinions from your own. Seems a little juvenile, don’t you think? I respect your opinion, even welcome it. I won’t, however, burst an artery over something with which I disagree.

By MBATL

December 29, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

If you guys are responding to my comment about Hudson and Hampton, I agree… both are solid citizens and great competitors. I’m very optimistic about both of them. But, faith is belief in things not seen… and we haven’t “seen” these guys pitch well in over a year, so it has to be a question mark. I think it’s key to the season, but think it’ll work out.

Our starters (despite Sosa, Shiell, Barry, etc) were virtually equal to the Mets’ starters last year. I think we’ve got a clear edge, on paper, going into ‘07.

The big gap was the bullpen, where the Met’s era was a full run-plus lower than ours. That gap should be closed a little, if not completely, with Wicky, Soriano, Boyer, and a more seasoned Villareal.

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

I can think of nothing better than a close NL East race come late September. That is what makes it fun, would you not agree? I hope it is a 1 or 2 game difference going into the season’s final series against NY. Duke it out for the division… Yeah, baby!

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

On this day in history:

1969: The New York Times reports Curt Flood will challenge the reserve clause by suing major league baseball.

In a related story, a 17-year-old California high school baseball player named Scott Boras has no idea how filthy rich this development will eventually help him (Boras) become.

By Charles

December 29, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Ahh, History, my favorite subject. Interesting how history impacts the future.

By TennesseePaul

December 29, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

The Mets will not be the force they were last season. The Phillies and the Braves have improved since then. The Marlins, baring a team wide sophomore slump will be as good or better than last season. The Mets… we’ll they got older. Two regular players under 30. Beltran at 30. The rest at or over 35. 1st base platoon at 81. Top of the rotation over 40. Lots of loses to the bullpen. Add it all up and it really evens out the East, if not tips it to other teams favor. I can’t say any team is a clear cut favorite without bias. And for that I present the Atlanta Braves. We took a breather last season for the first time in a decade and a half. Now we’re ready to get back in this thing.

Anyways. I like the turn of the year. It puts as just over a month away from pitchers reporting. And a few months away from Spring Training. And only a matter of time for Opening Day. Can’t wait. Getting my tickets and packing my bags. I’ll be in Atlanta for the first series. It will be a resounding victory. The Atlanta Braves will continue on and win 14 striaght, breaking the old record, which they set, of 13 straight to start the season. Then we’ll take a day off, and do it all over again. Notice a theme? We shall win. And we shall win big.

GO BRAVES

By br618

December 29, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

and most of these guys who are or will be millionaires because of curt flood actually don’t know anything about him and his sacrifice for trhem

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 29, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Where ya’ at Grinch? No verse 2 for my song yesterday at 4:45 p.m???? Maybe you’re off trying to get an early start on the New Years celebration. Drink Guiness Responsibly.

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

I love this Zito signing! All the Mut’s fans are just going off, it’s great. They are either really upset they didn’t get Zito, are totally over-hyping their young starters (Pelfry, Humber, Maine), or they are just coming up with ridiculous trade scenarios to land them either Rich Harden, Dan Haren, or Javier Vasquez… Ohhhh, so sweet, I love seeing New York not get their man (any NY team, not just the MUTS)

By TLJ

December 29, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

Man stats don’t lie, Braves on paper are a better team entering 2007. Mets are just a pulled groin from finishing in middle of the pack. With all of their old men it will probably happen. I hope you guys have a good farm system, you are going to need it.

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Brilliant!

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Good point DOB. How in the he!! does Boras get 7 years and $126 mil? I kept hearing that no one had even offered over 6 years, $100 mil, then all of a sudden he signs for way more money than that? Plus an extra year!

Boras must have dirt on every GM in the league…

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

br618, very true.

speaking of BR (OK, a stretch here), said hello to the lead singer of BR549, Chuck Mead, at the KU-Boston College game last Saturday in Lawrence. (For those who might not know, they’re a good country band, formerly the legendary house band at Robert’s Western Wear in Nashville. They also had the distinction of playing at the Kate Hudson/Chris Robinson wedding in 2000.

Anyway, Mead’s from Lawrence, wife’s a KU grad, and he goes to all the games. I knew he was cool, but not THAT cool.

Alright, I’ll stop. Only KU or BR549 fans would give a rat’s a&* about that story.

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

DonC, there can be no explanation for how Boras continues to get these ridiculous contracts from teams, year after year after year, especially when there’s seemingly no comparable offer made by another team, as was apparently the case (again) with this latest deal for Zito. Amazing.

By KC

December 29, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Efrim D:

I yield. You have obviously out-debated us at every turn. I especially like part where you said “all of our arguments are stupid”. Man I gotta tell ya, after reading that I really began to reevaluate my perspective on some things. You have intellectually pinned us to the mat. We have no recourse. You win! Billy Wagner is the greatest man to walk the earth since Jesus Christ. Bob Wickman was just lucky to get something more than a minor league contract. The Mets are the greatest offensive ball club since the 57’ Yankees, and the Braves will be lucky to scratch out a run or two a ball game with that lousy lineup they’ve got. Of course, as a *Braves fan8 (right? lol!) that must be a bitter pill for you to swallow… I know it is for me! MLB should probably call off the season right now and hand the World Series Trophy to Willie Randolph.

BTW: I never said that Wickman is better than Wagner. I don’t know of anyone here that has said that. What I said was that over the past two years, Wickman and Wagner have the exact same number of saves, 78, and that their there is a one percentage point difference between the closing ratios of these two guys. Wickman has converted 90% of save opportunities over the past two years, while Wagner has converted 91%. By that measurement, Wagner is ever so slightly better… but not to any degree worth mentioning.

By snowball's chance

December 29, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

Where did BR549 get their name? All those with hillbilly or redneck in their screen-name are ineligible.

I haven’t scanned all the posts but there is a story in the AJC about MBL players having their confidential drug tests handed over to the government. I played in rock bands throughout the 60’s and 70’s so I have been there done that on many chemical fronts. Now I have a job where I am drugtested. I don’t like the whole idea of “Big Brother” invading my private life. What is to stop the government from ordering all drug screen results be sent to them?

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Dave: My belief is that SF decided to offer an “over the top” offer to totally slam dunk the Mets, Yankees, Mariners and Rangers.

Besides, I heard on ESPN radio last evening that NYM decided that since they did NOT consider him a #1 starter, they were not going to pay “over the top” $$ for him. Does that sound right, a NY team not willing to overspend to get their man. What a gamble on SF part, especially with a pitcher that can be an elbow or shoulder away from NEVER coming back to their old form. Zito is a #2 at best.

Go H&H for 07!

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Junior Samples, on Hee-Haw, said, “Call BR-549” as he held up a sign with the number written on it. God, I hate that I know that…

By KC

December 29, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

VOR: Excellent point on Hampton. The 18 months thing is huge because, as you mentioned, it enables him to get all of the normal recovery issues mostly out of the way before the season ever starts. The typical struggles you see many pitchers endure in their first year back is largely due to their returning after only 12 months.

He’s still got to get the “feel” for his pitches back, and will have to shake off some rust. So I would look for Hampton to press his way through the first half, and then get on a roll after the all-star break.

By ICEMAN

December 29, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta Braves will never win a world series or anything else until they start treating their black with more respect and stop letting them go so easily.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 29, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Snowball,

I wouldn’t know even if I was eligible.

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Voice of (Redneck) Reason, outstanding bit of trivia. Can’t believe you knew that, either. Hey, certain things are ingrained in our brain pans after we see them, you know? And no explanation for what is and isn’t.

How-deee!

By Voice of Reason

December 29, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

ICEMAN: Huh?

By snowball's chance

December 29, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Voice of Reason, No need to to be ashamed of your past here. Just say you were waiting for Barbie Benton to appear.

Arkansas Hillbilly, now you do know in case you go on any hillbilly blogs.

By NYM

December 29, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

If we’re going to play the IF game then let me add this. If one or two of the young arms the Mets have (Pelfrey, Humber, Williams, Maine and Perez) can step up and perform well. The Mets will be strong again. We’ll have Green a whole season. Yes, he isn’t the player he was a few years ago but at the 7 or 8 spot will be more than adequate. Having Alou behind Wright is also an improvment from Nady/Floyd. The guy has been clutch his whole career. their line-up should be putting up 5+ runs a game so those young pitchers don’t have to be perfect. Anyway, can’t wait til April to see how it all plays out. Everyone out there (Even Brave fans) have a safe and healthy new Year!!!

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Barbi Benton … oh my. Why’d you have to do that?

By Efrim D

December 29, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Yea KC. You said it. Mets in 2007. They have the minor league resources, karma. They have it all. Once they complete Pelfrey and Milledge for Rich Harden. They will have it all. Although since I am a Braves fan, I hope they don’t. I wanted them to sign Zito because I think he is overrated. Now there chances of signing the more dominant Carlos Zambrano next year increases. But its cool, because next year we have Hampton at 15 million and Hudson at 13 million. Good Times.

By AdirondackDave

December 29, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

DOB — Could I probe a bit deeper into the question of player eligibility for arbitration and then free agency. Specificially, could you talk about how partial years are counted (if they are). For example, I remember that Franceour was called up in June or July of ‘05 and has played consistently since then. Does he have one or two years credited toward arb/free agency? Also, when a young player goes on the DL and loses significant playing time (even a year in some cases) how does that affect time credited toward arb/free agency?

Thanks, Dave

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

The Mets (or anybody else for that matter), are not getting Carlos Zambrano! The Cubs just shelled out $280 some-million for position players this offseason, you honestly think they do that without making sure they have enough to sign one of 5 or 6 TRULY DOMINANT starters in this league? Pleeeeaaaase, the Cubs have Zambrano and then hope to fill out their pitching staff, absolutely ZERO CHANCE he leaves the Cubs after this season…

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, don’t take this the wrong way, but shutup… The Mets are not getting Rich Harden, get real… Nobody is high on Milledge except Mets fans and the extremely biased NY (ESPN) Media… We have REAL prospects out here on the West Coast, not hype…

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, wouldn’t you agree that there is absolutely no chance of Zambrano being on another team other than Chicago for the next 5-8 years?

By KC

December 29, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Efrim, you don’t have to tell me Dude. You’re preaching to the choir. You’ve convinced me. I’m a convert. The 2007 Mets will likely be the greatest team ever to play the game. Even though I’m not a Mets fan… I’m looking forward seeing such greatness in action, so I will be able to tell my grandchildren that I watched the 2007 Mets play!

You said: “But it’s cool, because next year we have Hampton at 15 million and Hudson at 13 million. Good Times.”

Next year “we” have Hampton and Hudson. “WE”?? Are you still pretending to be a Braves fan? Give it up. No one’s buying it dude. And actually, we have Hampton at 12.5 million (Colorado will pay a portion of his salary for the remainder of his contract). If Hudson bounces back, even to his 04/05 form, let alone the 02/03 CY Young form… he will be a tremendous bargain at 13 million in 08 in this market. As will Hampton at 12.5.

Yes, missing out on Zito will put you in a better position to compete for Zambrano next season. Congratulations. And hey, since there aren’t any other teams out there willing to pay big money to a power pitching ace (except for the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Rangers, Dodgers, Mariners, and possibly the Cardinals, Giants, and a few others)… you’re virtually assured of getting your guy next winter, unlike this winter.

Hey, one question though… since the Mets already have the best damn rotation you’ve ever laid eyes on… where would they put him??? I mean, what a quandary it would be, trying to figure out who to part with to make room for Zambrano.

By AdirondackDave

December 29, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

DOB — Could I probe a bit deeper into the question of player eligibility for arbitration and then free agency. Specificially, could you talk about how partial years are counted (if they are). For example, I remember that Franceour was called up in June or July of ‘05 and has played consistently since then. Does he have one or two years credited toward arb/free agency? Also, when a young player goes on the DL and loses significant playing time (even a year in some cases) how does that affect time credited toward arb/free agency?

Thanks, Dave

By David O'Brien

December 29, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Adirondack, it’s done by days. There’s about 172 (I forget exactly) service days in a year. Doesn’t matter when called up, you get the number of days you were on the 25-man roster (September callups don’t count same).

If he was up half the year, he’d get exactly the number of days he was up. So a guy can be up for parts of, say, five seasons and still not necessarily have three years of service for arbitration.

Time spent on the 60-day DL is accrued as service time for players on the major league roster when they got hurt. When I covered the Marlins, Matt Mantei became arbitration eligible with less than a year of actual healthy service in the majors. He’d been hurt so much and on the major league roster when recovering, that he accrued three years when I think he was still technically a rookie, or very close to it. It was very unusual circumstance.

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Thought this was interesting about Hampton…

Mike Hampton: Nov 18,2002 - Traded by Marlins with Cash to Braves for Ryan Baker and Tim Spooneybarger.

Who the he!! are Ryan Baker and Tim Spooneybarger??

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Dave: Is there a place to go to find out all this information about eligibility, arbitration, free agency, etc. Also, I think there are some rules that give guidelines to what a team is allowed to pay it’s non-eligible players. In other words, why does some guys get 345K while others get 365K, etc.

If there is someplace to go for all this, that would be a good thing to know. I know we can ask you, but when you answer one guys question, another 3 questions come up.

Thanks!

By Efrim D

December 29, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

I am a Braves fan. I know the team frontwards and back, Im just saying that the Mets have a better team than the Braves do. I don;t really know what else to say. They also have a stronger Minor league system. Pelfrey, Humber, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez beat out Jo Jo Reyes, Matt Harrison, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Elvis Andrus. But Im still a Braves fan, always will be.

By michael

December 29, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

You don’t remember Spooney?!!!

By journalist jimmy smtih

December 29, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

are any braves on the list of players who tested positive for steroids in 2003? and who might appear on such a list? hmmm…

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

I do remember Spooneybarger. He was kind of a flake, with some sort of arm trouble a year or so into Florida. Also, it would be interesting who tested positive in ‘03.

By Carroll

December 29, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

DOB: this question is sorta personal and off-topic, but I have been debating either coming back home to Atl or headed south to Miami when I get done with school at FSU. Since you have spent time in both places, can you tell me which is better and why? Thanks.

By JCB

December 29, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, how in the world, can you sit there and say the Mets are better in all these catagories but yet say you are a Braves fan?? Braves fans would defend their team, and say stuff like, yeah, the Mets look good on paper, but we should be able to give them a run for their money this year. But you say stuff like, the Mets are better, we do not compare to them in any factor, when In actuality, we compare better in most factors. So what kind of Fan are you?

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

Carroll

I am sure Dave would probably agree with me, that even though the south is great, Utah is the best!!

Just kidding dude, they are all great places. I have lived in eight diffent places (seven distinctively different than the others) and what I have found is that any place is EXACTLY what you make of it. Of course, if you have a real choice, then Atlanta because of the Braves (certainly not the traffic) is the better of the two. South Florida makes Atlanta seem arid.

Good luck! (hey, remember, Utah is a great place to live too!)

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

I know one thing for sure, whoever is on that list won’t surprise me…

By Ron

December 29, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Some things dont change. Efrim D, still talkin smack, Lew tryin to correct him and finally sayin the hell with it. The blog started by people talkin about music, then Some possible Trades, and now Bashing of Met fans and Braves fans. Gotta love it.

By br618

December 29, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

spooneybarger dug his grave when he complained to the media about not being on the playoff roster….. he might have spent time on the DL during that season…as far as steroids…marcus giles?

By Earl

December 29, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Anybody else think that the Braves rotation can stack up against anybody’s in the league? It’s better than the Mets now without Zito, the Cardinals lost Suppan and maybe Mulder, the Giants are question marks after Zito and Morris. The Dodgers might have enough, but I doubt that their hitting will be as good as ours.

Also wondering, who gets your vote to play second if no more changes are made? My vote goes to Aybar.

By Ron

December 29, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, You messed up now. Yes the Mets farm system might be a little better than the Braves right now, but only because all of the younger Braves are now in Atlanta. In the last 2 years THE BRAVES FARM SYSTEM HAD GUYS like Francouer, McCann, (LaRoche3years), Prado, Kelly Johnson, Diaz, Langerhans, Bryan Pena, McBride, Boyer, Thorman, Chuck James, Kyle Davies, Devine. Dude SHUT UP!

The Mets farm system should be better than the Braves right now, and plus we are still developing guys, like Salty, Escobar, JoJo, Hairston, And the Shortstop of the Future ELVIS ANDRUS.

SHUT THE HE!! UP YOU PIECE OF CRAP, BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW JACK ABOUT ANYTHING, WITH THAT LAME ARGUMENT!

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Efrim D is a doosh bag!

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 29, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

DOB - just curious, who were your favorite baseball team(s) and player(s) growing up? were you a braves fan before or after getting the job with the AJC? thanks.

By KC

December 29, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Earl:

Tim Hudson will decide whether this rotation is great or merely good. If Huddy reverts even to his 04/05 form (let alone his 02/03 Cy Young caliber form)… this could be a truly great rotation as soon as Hampton shakes off the rust that he’ll probably have to deal with early in the year.

I think Tim Hudson will bounce back. Not preddicting a Cy Young from him, but I think he’ll be solid. If that’s the case, the Braves will win the NL East, and will be legit World Series contenders.

By DonCoburleone

December 29, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

Earl, Aybar gets my vote too. And the Giants have this young kid, Matt Cain, who will be their Ace in 2-3 years, not Zito. Also, Noah Lowry has alot of promise too… The Giants are actually extremely young in their rotation (but then again, compared to their everyday roster even the Mets rotation is young)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves may have to lower their expectations a bit and make one or two moves unless something pops up. Perhaps, they can offer Thorman to the Pirates for Matt Capps. It was said back at the winter meetings the Pirates had a strong interest in Thorman. The Braves can then attempt to flip Capps to the Rays and if they continue to dwell in dreamland the Braves can simply tuck the guy into the bullpen. His numbers were very good last year.

Another move the Braves could make is to call the Angles and offer LaRoche for Kotchman and Figgins. If the Angels want someone else, send along Langerhans. Figgins can step into play 2nd and give Kelly Johnson a little more seasoning at the position by not running him out there everyday. Thorman can platoon with Diaz in LF and Kotchman can platoon with Woodward at 1st unless Kotchman shows in spring training he can play everyday. The Braves apparently are not going to get any pitching so they should make the trade to get the leadoff guy (Figgins) and they can do it without giving up any pitching. If this deal went down, they could also flip either Kotchman or Thorman with a mid-level prospect to the Pirates for either Capps or Grozelany if the Pirates would do it. The Braves could then again attempt to flip either guy to the Rays for Baldelli or simply keep them.

So, what do you think?

By ncscoots

December 29, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

How about a nice, simple, efficient trade? Something like Paronto or prospects to the Cubs for Will Ohman. Cubs have a surplus of lefties, and probably would not be stubborn about getting immediate help back (I confess, I have no idea what the Cubs might be looking for in a trade).

As far as the Braves lowering trade expectations, you only do that if you have to move a player or you think a single trade will put you over the top. Braves don’t have to move LaRoche, and sorry, Robert, but Chone Figgins is not an impact player. He’s a fine ML player, but I’d take the offensive depth Adam brings to the club any day.

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

My vote on who gets 2B is that it is Johnson’s job to lose. If he doesn’t handle the D, then Prado will get the nod. Aybar is going to be Chipper’s caddie. If Johnson doesn’t cut it at 2B, then look for him in LF. He has a bat that can’t be ignored, better long term, I believe, than Diaz, Thorman, or Langerhans.

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

I agree with ncscoots that Figgins is not worth LaRoche. Only do that deal if Shields is part of the mix (or maybe Santana in a bigger trade). I would move LaRoche, but only for significant pitching. (Gonzo, Ray, Bedard, Santana, Shields, etc.)

I would move LaRoche to the Yankees for Cabrera and Proctor.

The worst part of it all, the waiting, since NOTHING we talk about here really matters in the long run. But gosh it is fun to hash it out!

By journalist jimmy smith

December 29, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

first, bobby likes prado. next, read what dob had to say about prado awhile back.

“Prado is a good one, a strong kid with good hands, strong arm and quality bat. He’s already on the 40-man roster, unlike Yunel Escobar, the charismatic Cuban shortstop prospect. Also, Prado is hitting a lot more than Escobar at Double-A, and he’s got versatility, which he showed while playing some second and third base during spring training. He can play all the infield spots except first.”

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

I’m not so sure I would do the LaRoche for Proctor and Cabrera trade. But, I don’t know. Perhaps, I would.

I agree Figgins isn’t a BIG TIME player, but could provide a huge impact on this offense. I really don’t want to get rid of LaRoche but he is the trading chip the Braves have. Honeslty, if I were the Braves I would maybe ask for Erick Aybar and Kotchman but I don’t know if the Angels see LaRoche being worth Aybar.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 29, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

dr johnny fever -

“I was making about a hundred thousand a year there. Then one day I said “booger,” a bunch of bozos called the station, and the next thing I know I’m in Amarillo hosting a garden show.”

By MBATL

December 29, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

RJIB, where would Aybar (Erick) play for us? He’s a SS, isn’t he? And Kotchman is another LH hitting 1B; we’ve got enough of those.

By Dadadada

December 29, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

doinky doinky doinky doinky doinky dadadada.

By Wayne in Utah

December 29, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

Robert: The biggest dilemma the Braves have is the point you made, that LaRoche is the only real bargaining chip the Braves have, that can be relatively easily replaced by internal assets. If we deal Hudson, we then need to get another starter from outside the org. Same with AJ. But with LaRoche, he is valued by others, and can be replaced by Thorman (and other possible players, Johnson(?), Diaz, Woodward, Brian Jordan (just kidding!)).

The trick for JS, is just this: We have this asset (LaRoche) others desire, so if we think an offer makes us better in ‘07 and beyond, then pull the trigger on a deal. Again, I would have to get a strong pitcher back, either Gonzalez, Ray or Bedard, Shields or Santana. The Proctor/Cabrera would be intriguing, as I personally think Cabrera will be a serviceable if not above average OF for years to come. Better I believe than Langerhans, Diaz or Blanco.

We don’t have too many good OF prospects in the minors at this point. KJ seems destined for other roles, and the only other prospect in our system AA or higher is Brandon Jones, and he is a long shot to be a real contributor.

I keep coming back to Kelly Johnson. I think KJ could do a number of great things for the Bravos over the next 2-3 years: 2B, LF, 1B, or even a replacement for Chipper at times at 3B. What I would love to see happen is to get ONE utility infielder that can play 2B-SS-3B with good defense at all, then use one other player as a possible 1B-3B-OF backup in case of injury or resting of the regular (KJ would fit here). So, in my mind, once 2B is set, then keep ONE other guy for the backup role. Now, as Aybar isn’t suited for SS, I think he is a waste of a space on the team. I would rather have someone like KJ in that role. Package Aybar and get something for him, and then let Woodward, Orr and Prado duke it out for the backup spot.

One last thing, if we could get Loretta for 1-3 years for 3-4 million per year, I would bite. I think we can fit him in our budget.

Whaddyya think?

By Stinky

December 29, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

I agree with Dadadada. Less one doinky.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this

MBATL, Erick Aybar can play CF. Yes, is he is SS but most feel that he can be a CF and very good one at that!

By journalist jimmy smtih

December 29, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this

thought so. blogging with himself again. oh, well, g’night.

By Stinky

December 29, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

jimmy, don’t let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

By Ron

December 29, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

Damn the Braves FARM SYSTEM IS UNBELIEVABLE (Even though we lost Stan Kasten a few years ago, and lost Dayton Moore last season, and other high brave people that helped build the Farm System, The Farm will be OK.) I dont think anybody outside of the Braves fans and of course Braves themselves know how Truly Great the Farm System is. People talk how good it is but they dont know how Truly Great it is. I will name you the Braves that came from the Farm System, even though most of you all know this, gonna say it anyway. (Not counting the players that were traded away such as (Wainright).

C- McCann, Pena 1B- LaRoche, Thorman 2nd- Prado, Johnson, Orr 3B- Chipper Jones RF- Francouer CF- Andruw Jones LF- Diaz, Langerhans and We traded top prospect Andy Marte to Boston for our SS- Renteria. John Smoltz(traded for Doyle Alexander, but still considered a Farm hand) Chuck James Kyle Davies Boyer McBride Devine

Wow that is 18 players from the Farm System that will be on the ML Roster, Orr might not be, but even 17 will be impressive. What other team can say that, other than maybe the A’s, but that is it. That is why the Farm may not be as good as some others right now, because so many of them are in Atlanta right now! Efrim D, NYM, can yall name any other teams Farm has produced that, Dont think so!

By Drew

December 29, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

Actually, Diaz wasn’t a farm hand, he was acquired from KC last offseason, but that is still a very impressive list.

By Drew

December 29, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

Did you guys know that Brayan Pena and Escobar grew up as neighbors in Cuba? Good article about it Pena in this months ChopTalk. I think this is the best issue of ChopTalk in a while, lots of interesting stuff.

By Frenchy

December 29, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

Gotta admire what PeeWee Reese had to say:

“If I had my career to play over, one thing I’d do differently is swing more. Those 1,200 walks I got… nobody remembers them.”

By MBATL

December 29, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this

RJIB, point taken on E. Aybar, I guess. I can’t find where he’s ever played the outfield, and don’t really see where he’s hit so well as to be “all that”, but as I’ve said before, you know baseball personnel better than me. I can’t see giving Laroche up for 2 non-pitching prospects.

By KC

December 29, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

Efrim D:

If you’re not a Mets fan, Barry Bonds is clean.

By Ron

December 29, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Drew, who did the Braves trade in the Diaz deal, or DOB, do you know who we traded to get Diaz. I thought he was a Farm hand. Oh well cant be right about everthing. haha!

By MBATL

December 29, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this

Matt Diaz:

Selected by Tampa Bay Devil Rays in 17th Round (505th overall) of 1999 amateur entry draft (June-Reg)

Jun 24,1999 - signed

Feb 19,2005 - Released by Devil Rays

Feb 23,2005 - Claimed off waivers from Devil Rays by Orioles

Feb 24,2005 - Signed by Royals (minor)

Dec 20,2005 - Traded by Royals to Braves for Ricardo Rodriguez

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 29, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

I think the team as currently constructed is very good. I would just feel better if JS found Andruw’s replacement now.

By Ron

December 29, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

Appreciate that MBATL, just read and the article said he was designated for assignment by the Royals on Dec. 16,2005. Wow he was real good for Atlanta and maybe he will be key for them in 2007, maybe.Maybe he has finally found a home with the Braves. Did anybody realize that Adam LaRoche was drafted in the 29th Round in the 2000 draft by the Braves. Dang that shows you that not only do you have to be smart and draft well, and study the players, but also have to get lucky also. And hope the player becomes something. Albert Pujols was a 8th Round pick dont remember which year though. Dang any team could have had him, but at least it was not the Mets or those bleepin Yankees!

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 29, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

JJS:

Of course I am day late (on vacation from my real job, which means I am working one hell of a lot harder at the house, performing all the “honey do’s”, so much for my rest, relaxation, naps, and visits to the blog, etc.).

On the grilled cheese question, I demand that mine consist of (1) cheap white bread; (2) mayonnaise; (3) kraft american cheese;(4) buttered top prior to placing on the griddle: (5) grilled on the griddle of my Five Star Stove (12” wide stainless steel gas fired griddle, almost like what you see at the Waffle House). Simple, but manufique!! Of course, if I am in a really cheesy mood, then two slices of cheese go on the sandwich! In that regard, I declare “lots of cheese for EVERYBODY!!!”

And remember, I am the Sandwich King!

By Ron

December 29, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

DOB, what you think. I think that Fernando Martinez of the Mets and Cody Johnson of the Braves are equal. Slight advantage to Martinez only because Martinez has had more time in the Minors, both are close to the same age. Who do you think will have a better career. I know that you dont know everything, but what is your thought about this.

By MBATL

December 30, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this

RJIB, agreed on that. Otherwise, next off season we’re possibly looking for 2 starting OF. Just didn’t connect E Aybar with the position.

I still think a deal for Cabrera and Proctor, or for Baldelli, or Rios (anything happened with him?) makes a lot of sense.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 30, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

I just read the latest post on the Bucco Blog and he still thinks LaRoche will be a Pirate and probably very soon. Now, maybe or maybe not. But, he also said something else. He thinks Nate McLouth (one of the names mentioned as someone the Braves asked in addition to Gonzales or Cabrera in the proposed three way trade). He seems to think McLouth is due for a breakout year. The guy does seem to score runs and has a good stolen base percentage.

I say the Braves should go ahead and do the three way deal with the Pirates and Yankees. Gonzales goes to the Yankees. Cabrera comes to the Braves, as well as McLouth and Gorzelany. LaRoche and Davies go to the Pirates. The Braves then either sign Tony Armas Jr. or make a trade for Sean Marshall or a Zach Greinke of the Royals. The Braves can use Diaz or Langerhans along with a prospect (even if its Salty) to get a pitcher such as Greinke or even Penn from the Orioles. Or the Braves could simply use Diaz or Langerhans in the deal to go to the Yankees to help soften the blow of losing Cabrera. The Braves could demand Maholm but if the Pirates balk should settle for Gorzelany and allow him and Cormier to battle it out for the fifth spot and still atempt to sign Tony Armas.

So, basically the Yanks would get Gonzales and Langerhans while giving up Cabrera. The Pirates would get LaRoche and Davies. The Braves would get Cabrera, McLouth and either Grozelany or Maholm.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 30, 2006 12:59 AM | Link to this

Allow me to stress that if the Pirates will give up McLouth without the Braves having to give up Davies that is the optimal deal. I think the Pirates may do that because they are getting desperate for a left handed power hitter and really have nothing to offer the Angles for Kotchman. So, they may do it. If that scenario did play out, the Braves could then package Langerhans and a prospect to the Cubs for Marshall or even the O’s for Penn. Maybe. I think it may be time to give up on Baldelli. The Rays hold all the cards and will eventually get what they want no matter how insane it is. The Braves will not nor should not give up James. Davies in a heartbeat. James there is no way.

Baldelli would be my first choice but I think that is just not going to happen. A team like the A’s, Cubs, or O’s are in a much better position to get Baldelli because they have what the Rays want. Now, if they would give it to them is another question. Right now the Rays don’t have to trade Baldelli even though their outfield is getting crowed with Crawford, Young, Upton, and Gomes. I think the Rays would rather move Cantu to DH or simply trade him. If the Braves could get Cabrera, I would say they should look at Cantu but I have the feeling the Rays’ asking price will be similar to that of Baldelli.

By MBATL

December 30, 2006 01:14 AM | Link to this

Robert, aside from the fact that Bucco Blog (or whatever) said Mclouth is a hot commodity, why would you want him? He’s shown absolutely nothing at the ML level. I’d take Langerhans over him.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 01:22 AM | Link to this

Robert, dude we should get Cabrera, McClutchen, and Maholm for LaRoche, and Davies. Dude we aint just gonna settle for Cabrera, McLouth, or Gorzelany. Dude we hold all the cards with LaRoche and Davies, they aint free agents, We should do like the Devil Rays. Ask for alot and if you do not get it oh well, We will just keep LaRoche and Davies. Robert you act like we have to trade LaRoche. That is insane dude. If we trade with the Yankees and Pirates, we have to get Cabrera, McClutchen, and Maholm, anything other than that is unacceptable. We dont have to trade LaRoche, and you know that! Why do you think that we have to trade LaRoche, he is a SUPERSTAR in the Making!

By DAP

December 30, 2006 01:24 AM | Link to this

i dont know why i bother, but hey effrim… NOBODY said wickman was better than wagner. geez, you really dont pay attention. you are going to have to start reading the whole sentence before you freak out. let me put this in all caps, because i think you like that. WAGNER IS AN AWESOME CLOSER!!! there! (so is wickman)

nobody banks on ESPN’s predictions or anyone else’s. i dont know if espn officially ever said it, but before the season last year, all the guys on baseball tonight and sportcenter were saying that the braves would win the division, so who cares what they say! let them talk!

the phillies are a great team, as are the braves, the mets and the marlins… looks like there is not a “THE TEAM” to beat. to win the east, you gotta beat 4 teams.

here’s somthing you said, effrim.

For all you say about Wickman in the second half of last year, you mention nothing about the Mets dominating with the same starting staff that they will open 2007 with. They went out in the second half with GLAVINE EL DUQUE MAINE O PEREZ AND PELFREY(at times)

now thats what im talking about! its about time you acually make a point, and this is a pretty good one. the mets made me so mad last year when they kept winning. really, though, the mets kept it afloat last year with this rotation, except they had tracsel. they did not do as well the second half as they did the first half, this this staff for the mets will have to exceed, not match thier performance from the second half to win the east in ‘07.

the mets might not be worried about the braves, and thats ok. the braves will have a good season and make it very interesting next year regardless. no one can REALLY predict what will happen. both teams are very good.

i think the braves could win the world series in ‘07. i really do.

real quick, a question for everybody, why hasnt anyone on the blog thought about langerhans as the future CF if andruw leaves us? is it just his poor performance at the plate this year? i hope so because he is amazing defensivly. i think the has the potential to hit in the .285 range with 20HR or so. he really has some power, but had a hurt hand last season. ya’ll let me know why this hasnt been discussed….

By Ron

December 30, 2006 01:27 AM | Link to this

The Pirates can just settle for Aubrey Huff if they cant get LaRoche. If the Pirates want LaRoche bad enough they will offer a huge package, trust me, Wait it out JS. And if the Pirates dont offer the huge package, so what. I would rather LaRoche be the 1B than Thorman. I do like Thorman, but I like LaRoche a little bit more right now.

By Wayne in Utah

December 30, 2006 01:35 AM | Link to this

Robert (JITB) Would you rather have Cabrera of the Yanks or under your scenario would you keep Gonzalez, then flip Soriano (Tampa Bay supposedly covets him greatly) and Escobar, including a mid level pithcing prospect (Reyes?) if we must to TB for Baldelli?

I prefer Duffy to McLouth, but at this point, either might be a good prospect to take a flier on. So LaRoche, Langerhans and Davies to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez, McLouth or Duffy, and Gorzelany? I am OK with that deal.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 01:38 AM | Link to this

Good point DAP, He is one of the Best Defensive outfielders in the game, no doubt. But his offense has been the only question mark. I do believe if he can get the proper amount of playing time, such as a full season, with a healthy hand, I think he could hit .240-.260 BA. 10-20 HR. 320 OBP. Solid numbers from a guy that will be cheap and An excellent Defensive Outfielder. Alot of people dont have great BA, but that would be acceptable. And maybe 40-65 RBI, hitting in the 8th spot of the Lineup.

By Wayne in Utah

December 30, 2006 01:56 AM | Link to this

Ron Agreed that we need to hold out for as much as we can get IF we trade Adam. But, if we want to improve, he really is about the only chip we have to play, unless we turn around Soriano somewhere. That having been said, you don’t give away your best chip (see Tampa Bay strategy) for less than an extremely good deal.

One big difference though, as Tampa Bay has no illusion of making the WS this year, the Bravos do. If we are going to go all the way, would we be better off with LaRoche at 1B, Thorman and Diaz in LF, and Davies as the 5th starter, or would we be better off with Cabrera in LF, Thorman and Diaz at 1B (could Diaz spell him, I don’t know?) Maholm as the 5th starter?

Or, would we be better off with Baldelli in LF (send them Soriano, Escobar and Reyes), Thorman and Diaz at 1B, Maholm in the 5th spot and Gonzalez in the pen?

This is the type of speculation that makes the hot stove league SO much fun to ponder.

DAP

Good point on Langerhans. I think we have been so spoiled by AJ’s defense that we fail to realize what we have in Langerhans. If he could put up his ‘05 numbers prorated for the year, that would be a decent CF and 7-8 hole hitter. The trick to that working is to have Johnson excel at 2B and get a power hitter for LF. So, maybe we should think of a way to really boost LF for next year, then leave Langerhans for centerfield. Who would that LF be? I am not convinced Diaz would be a 150 game 300 hitter, but it would be nice if he turns out to be…..

Good posts guys.

By KC

December 30, 2006 02:12 AM | Link to this

Ryan Langerhanz hasn’t shown the ability to hit consistently at the major league level. He’s had ample opportunity to instill confidence in BC and the Braves’ brass, but has been unable to do so. He’ll get at least another 200-plus at-bats this year… and he’d better make the most of them in a big way.

By Wayne in Utah

December 30, 2006 02:15 AM | Link to this

Folks

The Met lover on FoxSports.com, Dayn Perry (he can’t even spell his name right!!) is having a little temper tantrum and now is slamming the Giants for signing Zito, and saying Zito doesn’t care about winning. He must have had his widdle biddie heart broken when his beloved Mets missed out on Zito.

He did a real hack job on the Bravos a few days ago. While he makes a few points that are valid (tonight and earlier about the Braves), he seems to miss a lot of pertinent data. You would think Fox would see through his “homer” reporting, but I guess there are a lot of Met lovers out there!

Poor Dayn baby, can’t spell and now he got his feelings hurt….

By Wayne in Utah

December 30, 2006 02:26 AM | Link to this

Hey, where are my buddies Reggie Sanders and Brian Jordan tonight?? You guys were very entertaining when nobody else would talk to me???

By the way, I hope you both make the Braves in ‘07. I will call JS and put in a trade request for you Reggie. We have a few extra catchers, maybe we can give up that “Salty” dude for you. And Brian, you could be a good platoon guy at 1B if we trade away Adam, or “Mr. Forgetful”, as you call him.

Wouldn’t that be great, we could have both of you guys help the Braves get win the WS!!

By Reggie and Brian

December 30, 2006 02:30 AM | Link to this

Dude in Utah

Hey, since you got us together last night, we have been hanging out together all day. Went over to the varsity for some ‘dogs earlier, and have been playing ping pong at Brian’s place tonight.

Great idea about us both making the Braves next year, and I (Reggie) will even take a small pay cut so that “homeboy” can sign up Brian and me.

Keep warm out there in Utah dude, and thanks for the kind words!

By Wayne in Utah

December 30, 2006 02:33 AM | Link to this

Brian and Reggie Next time you dudes get together, give me a call.

By leviinalaska

December 30, 2006 04:12 AM | Link to this

I am surprised that no AL teams are interested in Diaz. That guy can hit and could probably be had for a fairly low price. I’d like to see the Braves hold onto him, but where can he play? Maybe LF but at 1B it seems like he’d be a real liability.

Of course, with either Andruw Jones or Ryan Langerhans patrolling CF, they can help make up for Diaz’s shortcomings in the field…

By Ray

December 30, 2006 07:55 AM | Link to this

One thing is for certain is that the Braves in ALL of the publications will be picked 3rd or 4th. That is not a bad thing at all. Being under the radar and performing on the field. SO many of the years, the Mets, Phils, were picked ahead of the Braves only to be outperformed ON THE FIELD by the Braves. This year not much difference. As mentioned many times Hudson is determined and he will perform. Lets see the Mets have 1 good year every 20 and the Braves have 1 bad year every 14. How Many excuses will we hear on why the Braves made it further in the playoffs than the Mets. I Doubt any of the Met fans will flat out say the Braves were better. It will be excuse after excuse. Glavine WILL pitch well for the Mets. Wright will keep emerging as a superstar. McCann will continue his quest to be one of the top catchers in all of baseball. Francour, the light bulb will finally click on. He has a tremendous talent but this will be the year he Really KNOWS how to play the game. Barring major injuries, The Braves will win 90+ games and once again everywhere but in Atlanta Cox will be cement the notion he is one of the best managers in all of baseball.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 30, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this

Guys, here is my reasoning for “settling”. I think it would be smart to get 2008’s CF this year instead of waiting to next year. Andruw is leaving and we all must accept that.

Now, I wouldn’t mind sending LaRoche and Davies to the Pirates and receiving Gonzales, Maholm or Gorzelany, and McLouth in return. The Braves could then flip Soriano to the Rays along with Escobar for Baldelli. It doesn’t solve our situation for CF in 2008 but it does gives a certain “closer of the future” in Gonzales and a starter in Gorzelay or Maholm. The Braves could also attempt to ask for Gonzales and Gorzelany for LaRoche alone and then flip Gorzelany to the Rays. If they don’t take him, then fine, the Braves have another pitching prospect. However, I think Baldelli is a long shot because the Devil Rays hold ALL the cards.

By Ray

December 30, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

Dave, and anyone else, who do you think will have that “breakout” year for the Braves? Many candidates are there, Diaz, Langerhans, Johnson and yes even Francour. Hampton and Hudson could fall in that category as well considering their situations. What do you guys think? Last year we had LaRoache and McCann break out. Question will be on them, if they were just one year wonders. I am thinking it will be either Johnson and/or Diaz as a breakout year.

By Metropolitan Man

December 30, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Morning braves bloggers. Now that the dust has pretty much settled on the free agent market, nothing left but blockbuster trades to try and get something for nothing. As bad as METS fans wanted Zito, we didnt miss out on him, we missed out on just giving away money finally. If any baseball fan thinks Zito is worth what he signed for, I have an original 1,000,000,000.00 bill to sell you for half the price. So barring a trade that probably wont happen until the trade deadline, the NL east will go into this fight with the guns they have. METS young guns will get their stock rising before the all-star break and then trade them for whatever is lacking (if anything). I know you braves fans have breathed a sigh of relief, but that is just temporary until the season starts.

By Eric

December 30, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Someone mentioned letting Langerhans be the CF of the future and that he would make a fine 7-8 hole hitter and then we could go out and get a power hitting LF for the middle of the lineup. There’s a problem with this - unless LaRoche or Francouer become viable clean-up hitters (a Catcher in the NL isn’t a good choice for cleanup, in my opinon), it’s going to cost alot of money to find a power hitting LFer. If we weren’t worried about money, we would be locking up Andruw now and our only lineup question mark would be the 2B/Leadoff hitter. Not the case. I hope that LaRoache insn’t traded and instead becomes a power hitting 1B that this lineup has lacked for years and could possibly fall into the cleanup spot next year. If that’s the case, then Langerhans in center isn’t a bad choice. But unless we’re going after Baldelli, I’m not concerning myself with 2008’s CF and cleanup hitter, I’m most concerned right now with this year’s 2B and leadoff hitter. Oh, and how will Hampton and Hudson pitch…

By Eric

December 30, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this

Here’s a question / new topic to present: Do you think that 162 games for a baseball season is a little bit too much? And do you like the unbalanced schedule?

By Lew

December 30, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

No one seems to realize that with Gonzalez in the bullpen along with Soriano and Wickman, we could win it all with Brian Jordan (just kidding to make a point) in left and Thorman at first. With that bullpen, the game is down to a 5 inning game. Hudson would have won 20 last year if all he had to pitch was 5 innings. Smoltz would stay fresh throughout the season AND the playoffs, Hampton would not have to stress his arm in his comeback and James could develope into the stud he has the potential to be, with less stress and whoever pitches 5th would be that much better. The addition of Gonzalez would improve THE ENTIRE STAFF!!! That is the deal that needs to be made. With that kind of pitching, Langerhans could play center when Andruw leaves and we would still win. It’s the pitching.

By Lew

December 30, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

One more thing-In this month’s Chop Talk column, JS talks about the possibility of moving Soriano to the rotation in the future. This would make Gonzalez an even more important piece of the puzzle for the bullpen. It would also ease starting pressure if and when Smoltz leaves.

By TLJ

December 30, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

I also agree on Ryan Langerhans being able to handle CF next year. He is no AJ but who is? With regular playing time I believe he could develop like LaRoche last year. In 2004 at Richmond he hit 20 HR, 70 RBI and had a good batting avg. I believe he could have numbers mentioned in Ron’s post of 1:38 AM but I believe he will hit for a higher average. His defense is very good. If we could get Baldelli at a reasonable cost then I would do it but I would be comfortable starting Langerhans in CF in 2008.

By John Adcox

December 30, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Wait. Biased reporting from FOX??? That just can’t be. Speaking of The Arctic Monkeys, anyone hear their EP, Who the f*%$ are the Arctic Monkeys? More good stuff.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 30, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

Since MLB already has one team named Royals—I think the Braves should change their name to Atlanta RoY’alls!…

By TLJ

December 30, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

I just read Dayn Perry’s article and it appears he is saying Zito should have signed for less money with the Mets to play for a winner. This is interesting because several years ago Tom Glavine signed with the Mets for more money than the Braves were offering. Using Mr Perry argument Glavine should have signed with the Braves because the Mets were not winners back then. Funny I don’t remeber seeing an article by Mr Perry bashing Glavine. What is wrong with Mr Perry??? Of course Zito is going to sign for the largest contract.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 30, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

What about Francoeur to CF when Andruw leaves?—since he’s supposed to be the next “big thing” in Atlanta—the “franchise”—the “Natural” according to SI! He runs fast and throws hard…

By br618

December 30, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

dislike unbalanced schedule and interleague play……..how aboutadding a block feature to the blog so you don’t have to wait for certain posters inane comments to load

By Steve-O

December 30, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

DUDE——DOB!!!

You like Ghostface?? No $hit!!!!!!! Yo man, thats awesome, you know what the title of his record means right?? DOB’s thoughts right now (Damn right I do Im from the 70s, but Im gonna act like I dont)

By Jared

December 30, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

“No one seems to realize that with Gonzalez in the bullpen along with Soriano and Wickman, we could win it all with Brian Jordan (just kidding to make a point) in left and Thorman at first. With that bullpen, the game is down to a 5 inning game. Hudson would have won 20 last year if all he had to pitch was 5 innings.”

Exactly how I feel. If the Braves get Mike Gonzalez, they should keep him. Not flip him for the likes of just Melky Cabrera, or trade the other set-up man in Soriano for Baldelli (will people please just get over Baldelli already, he ain’t playing for the Braves next season.)

I would still love to have Gonzalez, but let’s face it, Schuerholz is the general manager. He’s a good one, but he is slow and indecisive. So much so I could see the Devil Rays offering Carl Crawford for Chad Paronto straight-up and Schuerholz telling the Devil Rays’ GM: “give me a few days to talk it over with my staff.”

If Schuerholz would get Gonzalez and extend Smoltz’s contract, I’d consider this offseason near perfect.

By JC FROM UT

December 30, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

WAYNE IN UTAH: I’ve been meanig to ask you, what city do you live? I grew up in a small town called Magna west of SLC. I now live in a small town outside of Philadelphia. I grew up with the Braves on TBS in the early 80’s. It is rare for me to hear of people from Utah so that is the reason for my curiosity. Anyway, I think JS should trade Adam for Gonzales to shorten the games this season and to also have the closer in waitnig for next season. I like Wickman alot but I’m sure he will be contemplating retirement soon ans I don’t like the thought of trying to find a closer again.

By JC FROM UT

December 30, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Defensively, Langerhans is a no brainer for the future centerfielder. I think it is a good idea. Who knows the power hitting left fielder may well be either Eric Cambell or Van Pope or maybe even Escober. Many minor league infielders have become major league outfielders in the past. I read that Langerhans has been spending time with Brian McCann’s dad, maybe he will also be the futere leadoff man as well.

By KC

December 30, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Metro Man:

I think a “sigh of relief” is a mischaracterization… at least for me it is. I was never of the opinion that Barry Zito would be the thing to put the Mets over the top or even give them the edge in the NL East. I felt that even with Barry Zito, the Braves rotation would still be stronger. So I’m not saying “whew… that was close!” I’m just gleeful that the Mets weren’t able to use the unfair advantage that major market teams have, by signing a mega-bucks free agent again this winter. Though, I should add that they did sign Glavine, and signed Alou… two free agent moves that the Braves couldn’t afford to make, so that big-market advantage did come into play in some noteworthy way.

Still, the Braves rotation is better. If Tim Hudson reverts… even to his 04/05 form, the Braves rotation will be one of the best in baseball (light-years ahead of the Mets). Right now there is a gap between the Braves and Mets, and the Mets are no longer on the better end of it. Barry Zito would have helped to mostly close that gap, but Atlanta still would have had the slight edge.

By Lew

December 30, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Well, the National Weather Service was wrong again. What was supposed to be a trace of snow is now 6 inches and still snowing. Hibernation time has arrived in Central Vermont. Great weather to watch the Dawgs win the Chicken Bowl. I read in Chop Talk that Orr was taking batting lessons from McCann’s Daddy this offseason. With his speed, if he could learn that sweet swing and hit doubles…..I wouldn’t count on us getting another 2B. In Chop Talk, JS talks about Kelly Johnson (he’s been working with Hubbard, so he should be ready-look what Hub did for Giles career), Prado and Aybar-exactly what he told DOB. We may just be looking for one more pitcher. I think all of the outfield speculation has been for replacing Andruw. No matter how much the Braves may want to keep him, I think they see the writing on the wall.

By KC

December 30, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Jared:

I could be wrong, but I think the notion that the Braves would rather have M.Cabrera than M.Gonzalez is just plain asinine. There is no way in the world the Braves would acquire Gonzalez and flip him for Cabrera. Who ever came up with that BS rumor is an idiot. The Braves have made it clear that their priority is pitching. There are only three possibilities. 1-they keep LaRoche. 2-The trade him straight up for a great young arm (like Gonzalez). Or 3-they trade LaRoche for a top-notch leadoff guy plus a quality arm. LaRoche for Melky #%&@#% Cabrera ain’t happnin’ and it never was going to happen. Not a snowball’s chance in hell!

As for the Braves trading LaRoche for Gonzalez… Gonzalez would obviously help the Braves shorten ballgames, and would give us our closer for at least the next couple years following the 07’ season. Additionally, Gonzalez is still young and doesn’t make much (by MLB standards, of course), so he would allow us the option of clearing Wickman’s 6 million dollar salary after next season, so that money could be used to try and re-sign Andruw, or whatever else the Braves might want to accomplish.

Having said all of that… I still wouldn’t be in favor of that trade. Gonzalez’s value this year couldn’t match what LaRoche brings to the table. Now if the Braves hadn’t acquired Soriano, that would be a different story. But the Braves have the 8th and 9th locked down, with some other promising arms in the pen as well. Atlanta has some darn good 7th inning candidates.

Tyler Yates spent 2/3 of the season (4 months) in Atlanta. After being called up, Yates had one bad month (August) in which he allowed 10 runs in 10 innings. HOWEVER, through the other 3 months (June, July, Sept/Oct), he posted an ERA of 2.17. To finish the season, he posted a 2.70 ERA in Sept/Oct as the Braves’ setup man.

Blaine Boyer is a great young arm, and has been regarded by the Braves as a possible future closer. In his 05’ rookie year, he posted a solid 3.11 ERA, before (as you know) spending pretty much all of 06’ on the DL. He’s healthy now, and will battle it out with Yates for that 7th innings slot.

Gonzalez is great, but LaRoche will hit for a respectable average, play gold-glove defense at 1B, could hit 35-40 homers, and will probably drive in 100-plus runs. That’s just too much to give up for a 7th inning guy… no matter how good he is. Especially when you’ve already got good options there. Trading for Gonzalez makes more sense next year than it does this year.

By Lew

December 30, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

KC-We could get Gonzalez this year and you have no idea if that would be the case next year. If he has another great season, we can’t afford him next year. Thorman will be an adequate replacement for LaRoche. It’s the pitching, Dude.

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

KC, you can’t kill the Mets for using that advantage that they have. The Braves have a lot of money tied up into a small amount of players. If they would of played it smart and traded away a guy like Hudson this offseason, it would of given them more financial flexability in the upcoming seasons. 6 million for Hudson, while a bargain this year, may not seem like a bargain when he is owed 13 million in 2008. If he has another season like he just had then the Braves will not be able to get any type of value for him next year. Now I am sure you will rebuttle with the fact that Smoltz, Andruw Jones and Bob Wickman will come off the books next year. But remember that the Braves would have to replace their Closer, Number 1 starter and CF/Cleanup hitter with that money. It should be roughly 27.5 million off the books next year with a slim free agent crop. No way they should sign Tori Hunter to play center. They can’t afford Zambrano. And Francisco Cordero is the only closer on the market worth giving a look. Slim Pickins.

By Lew

December 30, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

Efrim-I wouldn’t worry about Hudson. First of all, he DID win 13 games for a team that was 4 games under .500. If we had a decent bullpen (like we do now) he could have made it pitching 5+ innings. Now there is no need for him to fade in the 6th. Besides, his training regimen this offseason should help considerably. Even at $13 million, he’s still a bargain at today’s prices. Evven Jason Marquis, with an ERA over 6.00 signed for damn near $10 mil per year. We will be fine. The large salary crisis will be resolved within the next two seasons. Our higher priced players will be finishing their careersa in Atlanta and I would almost bet that Liberty Media will increase the payroll. There’s just too much money being made now.

By Lew

December 30, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Efrim-One more thing-You mention a slim free agent crop next year. Since when does that affect the Braves? They rarely sign free agents. Smoltyz can probably be resigned and Matt Harrison will be ready for the rotation. Why are you so concerned? We did not turn into the Royals overnight like you and some others seem to think.

By KC

December 30, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Efrim D:

I have nothing more to say to you until you admit you’re a Mets fan!!!

By Metropolitan Man

December 30, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

I love your insight KC but you do realize the braves are in decline and the METS are on an upswing talent wise. Just looks at the stories on these two teams and it tells the tale. Braves cant afford anyone, not enough money, players always signing everywhere….ect. I use to wonder a few years ago why JS only drafted homegrown talent, now its obvious. So when contract time comes around, he can beg for the hometown discount. Thats about the only thing he could predict with this failing franchise. Now the METS have been the team to beat the braves year after year with no avail. Well that is over, and if you have a frnachise on the decline, another franchise is on the way up, say hello to Omar’s METS. Established the team 2 years ago and makes forward progress every year albiet not enough for braves fans to recognize. So excuse the optimsm for another Playoff visit (this time all the way) while you know the braves are a former shell of themselves elbowing room for positions 2-5 in the NL east.

By MBATL

December 30, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

I think Devine is still (hopefully) the future as closer. He’s still just 23, got closer stuff, just needs to throw strikes, and settle down a little. If all goes as planned, we have the luxury of not rushing him in ‘07, but he should be ready to step in if Wickman leaves in ‘08.

I’d do the Laroche deal if we could get Cabrera and Proctor. That would ease the loss of AJ, and give us another solid middle reliever. And I think Thorman would be fine at 1B.

Laroche’s value will never be higher. He had a monster July/August run (like a lot of the Braves), but somehow on this blog he’s now a sure .300/40/120 guy. I don’t think so. I think he’ll continue to strike out a lot, and will produce 25 HR, 90 RBI. Not bad… I’m not down on him, but think now is the best time to deal him.

Noticed that we played Eric Campbell at 2B a lot in winter ball; he’s got a great bat and he might be the 2B of the future.

By KC

December 30, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

Metro Man: I’m afraid I have to admit that I don’t have the first damn clue what you’re talking about.

First of all, in regard to payroll… The Braves’ limitations are a handicap right now… no doubt about it. However, several teams have remained perennial winners with a middle-of-pack payroll, and Schuerholz is more skilled than most. Also, we are in the middle of an ownership change and until that’s final, we have no idea what our payroll will look like over the next few seasons, except that Braves President Terry McGuirk is positive that payroll won’t be cut. There is a chance that payroll may be increased, but even if that’s not the case, the Braves have enough young talent to remain competitive for a while. Actually, the Braves are loaded with young talent. More so than the Mets.

You won the division title last year. Congratulations. But it takes starting pitching to win a World Series. You have a 41 year old-ace (who’s not really even an ace anymore), since the guy who is supposed to be your ace (Pedro) spends most of his time on the DL these days, and the way his injuries/surgeries have taken their toll… is most certainly past his prime. Who else do you have? Maine looks like a solid young pitcher, but we’ll have to wait and see if he develops into anything more than that. You’ve got a prospect starter, but then… doesn’t everybody? Some of them become stars, most don’t. Let’s see… what else… oh yeah, O.Herenandez.

Yeah, I can see where the Mets are loaded for the future, and the Braves don’t have any good young stars in the making… except for Adam LaRoche, Jeff Francoeur, Brian McCann, Chuck James, Rafael Soriano, and couple of solid young relievers, and a decent batch of minor league prospects.

By MBATL

December 30, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Betcha the Mets get Willis, for Milledge and maybe someone else. Marlins are sooo pitching heavy and practically don’t have an outfield - some prospects, but aside from Willingham no one has hit a lick. Willis’ dui is just the out the Marlins needed to justify doing a deal.

By Wayne in Utah

December 30, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

JC from UT

Quick intro: Born and raised in SC in 60’s, early 70’s. Was fan of original Atlanta Braves teams. (through thick and thin) Adult life spent in CA, TX, MS, SC, IL, SC (again) and now Layton, Utah for almost 5 years.

Still loyal to the Bravos.

By Metropolitan Man

December 30, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Nah KC, this is what im talking about. The guys you have now are locals who grew up in the system. JS is counting on them all taking hometown discounts to stay a brave when the time comes. If you truly beleive payroll is on the rise and everything is ok, you are delusional. Omar has done More with More, but every team has caught up to JS and he can no longer do MORE with less. KC give up the spin your putting on this dying franchise. You are now more suited to deal with the Nats and Fish becasue the METS and Phils are leaving you behind. All this about how good you used to be and how bad the METS were. ITS OVA. Last years team won with heart, teamwork, and no Pitching. You guys will blame the “pen” for last year and next year, and the year after.

By ernesto

December 30, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

MetroMan - You’re right, Omar’s really put it together up in NY. Alou hasn’t lost a step, still fresh as a daisy. Green’s never been a stiff on any other team. Beltran’s had one bad year but one good one, so you’re pretty much guaranteed another good one. Wright and Reyes are both proven MLBers and you can pretty much pencil their stats from last year forward without fail. Delgaddo’s not getting older. LoDuca’s not an injury away from leaving you with no one behind the plate or in the 2 hole. You guys ahve it locked up. I’m not even sure why we’re playing teh 2007 season. Strong blog there genius.

By Metropolitan Man

December 30, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Sounds about right to me Ernesto, sacasm and everything. All I know is the braves led the league in runs, thats gonna be duplicated right??? MCcan is the only clutch man you guys have on the team. A Jones is in contract year so look for career numbers there, but the rest is a guess. Who’s on second, who’s is the backup 3rd baseman, who’s the 4ht outfileder, will Laroche get traded and who will we get in return. Oh yeah, who is leading off? Sound like you guys have more question marks than we have old guys??

By Metropolitan Man

December 30, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Oh, where is your bench let alone a completed MLB roster?????????

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, where did you live at in MS. Metro Man, you are a FOOL if you think that Omar is your savior, he is a bum, yes he signed Beltran, no brainer, traded for Delgado and LoDuca, so what, wow they had a few prospects,anyway the Marlins could have gotten more, but was tired of the Braves and said the hell with it. How is that Pedro signing. That is probably why the Red Sox did not sign him Duh! Is it me or is Milleage severely OVERATED, If he was a prospect anywhere else other than NY he would not be S**!

By Lew

December 30, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

MetroDude-If you think that the Braves are in decline, then, Dude, you have totally lost it. I will remind you of your words later this season when the Braves and Mets are neck and neck in the race (IF the Mets can find enough pitching to pull off the same smoke and mirrors they did last season). I hardly think the Mets are a team in their ascendency with the crap pitching staff they have put together. Your pitching is a total joke and there’s no way you can spin it otherwise. You may have bludgeoned other teams last season to mask the inadequacies of such as Steve Trachsel, but it surely won’t happen two years running, any more than the Braves will have a 6-23 June again and 29 blown saves. Let’s not get carried away on the road to delusion. Even if the Mets can overcome their lousy pitching and win a playoff berth, they surely are far from the best team in the league. I don’t think they could take out the Dodgers or Padres and maybe not the Cubs. How can you say they are in ascendency when they have an average age of 37 or so. They have more 40+ year old players than any three teams in baseball. A team in thier senility is more like it.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Metro Man, clearly you dont know squat about the Braves, Backup 3rd Baseman will be Aybar, 4th Outfielder will be Ryan Langerhans, Solid players. And Second Base will be Prado or Johnson, would rather have them than Valentin,(FLUKE YEAR, WONT GET CLOSE TO DUPLICATING THAT!!!!!!!!!)

By Lew

December 30, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Metro Dude-Before you go getting all delusional, you need to realize that all of the Mets money got them Moises Alou at this point. Good luck. Where’s all the top flight pitching all you Mets fans were so sure they would buy this year? Surprise, there are at least 8 other teams with just as much money. Didn’t help, did it?

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Metro Man, Agree with you on one thing the Braves do sign alot of homegrown talent, but so what, they happen to be Very Good. Hell NY has alot of people, maybe The Mets need to do the same thing that the Braves are doin but sign from New Jersey and New York. Might save some Money in the process.

By Metropolitan Man

December 30, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Omar had done very well in NY Ron. Since arrivng he has sured up all weak spots on this team with the exception of a lights out pitching staff that no MLB currently has. With Omar’s 1st year, over .5000 finally. Second year, 1 pithc form the WS. 3rd year, WS ring for sure.
And if you missed it, signing Pedro 1st, open the doors for Beltran, Delgado , Wagner and Loduca. Anyway JS can keep shopping at Walmart while we move on down to Lennox Square and shop with the big boys. Good day….I said good day!!!!!

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

All the Mets fans were saying is Zito is such a Great Pitcher and when the Mets sign him the Mets would Win it All. And now all the Met Fans on this blog are sayin he wasnt no good anyway. He wasnt worth the money but he probably would have signed a few weeks ago if the Mets would have offered 5 years at 85 Million.

By Lew

December 30, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

I never thought I’d hear someone saying that drafting good, young, hometown players of the caliber of McCann, McBride, Francoeur, and Boyer was a BAD thing. MetroDude-You must be having a bad day. Maybe you need to sit down and watch the Dawgs win tonight. It might just settle your Chi, Dude. Give you a more realistic perspective. You’re just not yourself today.

By Shaun

December 30, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Braves vs. Rest of the NL East

I haven’t looked at any detailed projections, but it doesn’t appear that there is too much that separates the Braves, Mets, Phillies and Marlins in terms of talent (run differential). That means the division will most likely come down to health and luck. I think the Braves have a little less room for error than the Mets or Phillies or maybe even the Marlins but at this point I think it’s anyone’s division (except the Nationals).

By Shaun

December 30, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Braves vs. Rest of the NL East

I haven’t looked at any detailed projections, but it doesn’t appear that there is too much that separates the Braves, Mets, Phillies and Marlins in terms of talent (run differential). That means the division will most likely come down to health and luck. I think the Braves have a little less room for error than the Mets or Phillies or maybe even the Marlins but at this point I think it’s anyone’s division (except the Nationals).

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

That says alot Metro Man, Signing Pedro got yall Beltran, Damn he did not want to be a Met if Pedro wasnt there, Damn dude if I was a Met fan I would not like that. Anyway, Yall traded for Delgado and LoDuca, that Pedro Signing was not a Factor. And Yall did offer Wagner a bigger deal than anyone else. And Omar has the money in NY, no brainer moves, Billy Bean is 100 Times better than Omar, Omar crippled the Expos franchise, with the Colon trade when the Expos gave up Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Philips,(heard of those guys.) And traded Colon a year later for ROCKY Freakin BITTLE. How did that turn out. Good Day…….I said Good Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By KC

December 30, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

RON:

EXACTLY RIGHT!!! It’s comical, isn’t it?

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Metro Man, Damn dude The Mets finished over .5000 damn dude I guess I was wrong about them. HAHAHAHa You dumba$$ it is over .500.

By Lew

December 30, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

You can book mark this and show it to me next October if you want, but here’s my predictions. The Braves will win the East. The Mets do not have the pitching and the Braves will not suffewr through a June like last year, OR 29 blown saves. The Phillies staff will have an ERA over 5 runs per game. It doesn’t matter how much power you have-NO ONE can pitch successfully in Philadelphia. The Marlins are already reeling in Hanly Ramirez with shoulder problems and Uggla will never have the year he did in 06. The Marlins will also have at least one of their young pitchers implode from overuse last season and at least one more will experience a sophmore slump. Andruw Jones will have a monster year, Hudson will be back in form and Hampton will shock most of the baseball world when he wins 12-15 games. If the Braves pick up Gonzalez, they have the best bullpen in baseball. If not, they still have the potential for ONE of the best. It may be a decent race, but the Braves will win the East.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

Metro Man, Omar could not wear Billy Beane’s watch dude, Omar is lousy and a Piece of Crap GM. How does he have a job I have no Idea, those Mets people must have been smokin some hardcore stuff, to have hired that bum, I think that Littlefield is a better GM than Omar. And Littlefield is the worst, well second worst.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

KC, The Met fans keep coming with stupid arguments, and we have to tell them how it is. Hell Me and you, probably know just as much about the Mets than the Met fans and we are Braves fans!!! The Met fans tries to make sense but dont and we prevail every single time. Metro Man needs to know more about Omar before he talks good about the Guy. He is a damn BUM!!!

By MBATL

December 30, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

The O’s have made an offer to Aubrey Huff… if he takes it, that kills the Ray/Penn deal, which is the best one I’ve heard yet for LaRoche. But, we’ll see. If Huff turns them down, the O’s might be all the more desparate to trade for a power-hitting 1B.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Well There is another person,DOB, that just proved that Metro Man is saying things from Thin Air, apparantly, hell Metro Man must not know much about the Mets.

By David O'Brien

December 30, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man, please forgive me for interrupting your debate with Ernesto and others. But I couldn’t help but notice your line about McCann being the Braves’ only clutch hitter.

I was just curious, by what measure would you suggest that the Mets are a better “clutch” hitting team than the Braves?

In 2006, here’s how the two teams ranked in the NL in what are generally considered clutch hitting categories:

BATTING WITH RUNNERS ON:

Braves .283 (tied for 1st in NL) and .838 OPS

Mets .271 (tied for 7th) and .805 OPS

WITH RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION:

Braves .275 (2nd in NL) and .811 OPS

Mets .274 (3rd) and .830 OPS

W/ RISP AND TWO OUTS:

Braves .273 (1st in NL) and .805 OPS

Mets .245 (tied for 8th) and .777 OPS

IN CLOSE AND LATE SITUATIONS:

Braves .272 (2nd in NL) and .822 OPS

Mets .259 (tied for 5th) and .756 OPS

Among Braves with at least 180 at-bats WITH RUNNERS ON BASE, McCann hit .368 with a 1.091 OPS, Chipper Jones hit .318 with 1.071 OPS, Marcus Giles hit .315 with an .843 OPS, and Edgar Renteria hit .310 with an .820 OPS.

AMONG METS with at least 180 at-bats WITH RUNNERS ON BASE, Paul Lo Duca hit .327 with an .807 OPS, David Wright hit .321 with a .931 OPS, Carlos Beltran hit .317 with a 1.097 OPS, Jose Reyes hit .314 with a .956 OPS, and Carlos Delgado hit .290 with a .961 OPS.

(Mets standouts fared well in that category, but their other players not so much.)

AMONG BRAVES with at least 100 at-bats with RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION, McCann hit .346 with a 1.102 OPS, Giles hit .322 with an .856 OPS, Jeff Francoeur hit .320 with an .845 OPS, Renteria hit .293 with a .785 OPS, Chipper Jones hit .284 with a .971 OPS, Andruw Jones hit .276 with an .889 OPS.

AMONG METS with at least 100 at-bats with RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION, David Wright hit .365 with a 1.060 OPS, Reyes hit .336 with a 1.029 OPS, Beltran hit .320 with a 1.159 OPS, Lo Duca hit .314 with a .779 OPS, and Delgado hit .293 with a .968 OPS.

(Again, Mets had the superior top-end depth, but guys like Valentin (.253), Nady (.203), new Braves Chris Woodward (.190), Castro (.156 and Matsui (.150) brought down NY’s team average and made many outs at bottom half of the order in clutch situations. By contrast, Braves didn’t have anyone hit under .182 in more than 20 at-bats with RISP, and LaRoche hit .254 with an .801 OPS w/RISP while batting sixth or lower much of the season.)

IN CLOSE AND LATE SITUATIONS, Braves had four guys hit .304 or higher in 65 or more at-bats, led by Andruw Jones with a .349 average and 1.024 OPS.

IN CLOSE AND LATE SITUATIONS, the Mets had just one batter hit .300 or higher in at least 65 at-bats _ David Wright, .348 with a .984 OPS.

OK, sorry for the statistical overload. Just curious what you based that statement on.

Carry on with the debate.

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 30, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

DOB - my question above probably just got lost in the blog, so i’ll repost it:

what were your favorite team(s) and player(s) growing up? were you a braves fan before or after getting your AJC job?

By Metropolitan Man

December 30, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the stats DOB but you didnt mention how the braves would score 10 runs a game for a week and maybe 7 total another week. How may times did that happen last year? Now how can you judge what Omar did in Motreal and compare that to what he has done wit ht METS. If the Expos did anything in that small market who knew , Sportscenter rarely gave them play. NY is a big market, no way he pulls crap like that in NY. Also, I listed a lot of braves wholes in an earlier post, where are the responses to that? We can dump on franchises all day long, bottom line is the braves are on the decline. Like I said getting homegrown talent wasnt a choice but a priority. Looking for that hometown discount for your 3rd year players when contract time will be amusing. These guys you gush about, Mcann, Frenchy, Davies, James, will hold you hostage when payday comes or go to the team opening up the purse. Are you guys excited about next season or the future state of the braves??? Me, just next season becasue our future looks bright with cash and options. Take away both teams starters and you see the difference, METS have a secondary team, just like last year to pick up the slack of struggling stars. Good luck finding a MLB caliber team at all positions. You guys have been blinded by the 14 choke thing and are actually delusional about how fast things can go from sugar to sh**!!!!!

By David O'Brien

December 30, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Daybed, as a kid growing up in North Carolina and Memphis, my far and away favorite team was the Oakland A’s with Reggie Jackson, Joe Rudi, Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter, Bert Campaneris, et al. Just liked everything about ‘em, from the unis to Reggie’s whole persona.

Also loved The Big Red Machine teams, especially Pete Rose and George Foster. And later the Pirates, particularly Dave Parker (The Cobra ruled) and Willie Stargell.

I pretty much idolized Hank with the Braves, even in his declining years. I remember a family vacation in the early 70s, when we drove down from Greenville, N.C., went to Six Flags (it was still pretty new, I think) and went to see the Braves. 50-cent seats in left field, hoping for a Hank homer.

Alas, he had a bad day. But I got one of those plastic batting helmets we wore as kids, and wore it all summer because I’d actually gotten it from the ballpark where Hank played.

By KC

December 30, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Metro Man:

You lost the argument dude. Give it up.

By wowbobwow

December 30, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, Looks like the Centro list is already full, as was expected. Will is gonna check with the Truckers and see if they have any room on their list but i would bet that route is a no-go as well. Status downgrade to “Highly Doubtful”. Sorry Bud, I tried.

By David O'Brien

December 30, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Metro Man, Omar’s done a helluva job, on balance. A few questionable moves, but very few, and you can afford to make a few mistakes when you’ve got so much more cash to spend.

Braves in decline? I really don’t think many in baseball categorize them that way. More like, Braves have contstraints because of payroll, and can’t afford to make mistakes, can’t afford to get involved in this free-agent market, etc. But their minor league system has produced a lot of talented players, and I think most around baseball, from those I talked to at winter meetings, etc., aren’t writing off Braves by any stretch. Most, including your man Omar, believe Braves will be back stronger in 2007.

And if and when the sale goes through, you can probably imagine what the Braves might be able to do with just another $10 mill or so added to the payroll and a big salary or two eliminated in a year or two.

Bottom line, you should keep things in perspective: Mets wouldn’t be where they are without significantly increases resources, which Omar has put to very good and wise usage, for the most part. Most of the moves he made worked. Now they have a ballpark on the way, so payroll will only keep rising. Things look good for their long-term outlook, for sure.

By wowbobwow

December 30, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, forgot to ask you before if you like the music of Doug Sahm (especially the Sir Douglas Quintet stuff)?

By Ken Strickland

December 30, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

The Braves will severly hurt their future is they trade LaRoche. AJones will be a FA next yr, and with our self emposed salary cap, we can’t get into a bidding war for him. LaRoche hit 35 HR’s, with 90+ RBI, last yr while batting in the 6 & 7 slots. He could hit 40-45HR’s, with 100+ RBI, batting cleanup. If we trade LaRoche, and AJone leaves, we would lose approximately 90-100HR’s and 200+ RBI. How do we replace those two, both OFF & DEF?

If we trade AJones we at least retain LaRoche’s production and DEF, and we can still get what we need. AJones is as valuable on the trade market as LaRoche, if not more so.

By Jared

December 30, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Reitsma’s agent says he has an offer from six different teams. Does anyone know if the Braves are one of those six teams?

By David O'Brien

December 30, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Wowbobwow, thanks for the effort. And let me know if anything pops, ‘cause I can get there in 10-15 minutes.

Doug Sahm _ only have some of his stuff with Texas Tornados. How good is the Sir Douglast Quintet stuff?

You like Bobby Bare _ Sr. or Jr? Both are great, though soo different. I absolutely loved that comeback album by Sr., “The Moon is Blue,” which was produced by the younger Bobby, came out at end of 2005 (or else I’d have had it in my top 25 of ‘06 list _ it’s that good). Incredible CD, and entirely overlooked, on a indie label, I think.

You live down in Texas? If so, do you put McMurtry near the top of you Texas songwriters list? I know it’s a long list, but he’s near the top, in my view, just below the godhead stuff by Townes Van Zant and Guy Clark, and right there with Steve Earle (though I know Earle wasn’t actually born on Texas soil, unless you believe the legend that his grandfather brought a box of Texas dirt into the Virginia hospital delivery room so the first soil his feet hit was Texan)

By David O'Brien

December 30, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

and Willie, obviously. Man, there’s just so many, whenever you name a great Texas songwriter, you’re going to get strong reaction from supporters of those you don’t name. Joe Ely, Lyle Lovett, Robert Earl Keen … just so damn many greats. I don’t think Lucinda is a Texas native, or she’d be up there, too.

By David O'Brien

December 30, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

Jared, saw your question and just left a message with Reitsma’s agent. I’ll let you know if and when he calls back, but my guess is the Braves have made an offer.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 30, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

I have loved this argument between MetroMan and us Braves fans. I have been at work and couldn’t interject but I’m home now and will. Metro, you are right to a point. The Braves offense is unbalanced and I have been saying that. We did have way too many times last year when we went dead cold. It seemed as though if no homeruns were hit, we didn’t win. However, for you to say McCann was the only clutch hitter is asinine. Chipper, LaRoche, Andruw, Diaz, and even Giles continuously came through in the clutch. Dude, Francoeur was second in the majors in late inning RBI and I believe was first or second in RBI with two outs. You’re insane to say that. As it stands right now the Mets, Braves, and Phillies are all about even with the Marlins nipping at all of their heels. You can tell yourself all you want that the Mets are superior but they aren’t. Be honest. If the Marlins and Phillies played all year like they did the second half and the Braves didn’t have all the injuries and bad luck, would the Mets had won the division as easily as they did. Don’t forget the Phillies made up around 8 games in the standings in about five or so weeks. Look, man, ask yourself this question. If the Mets played in the AL East or the AL Central or hell, the AL West would they had still won 97 games?

Now, I’ve been thinking a lot today and I am beginning to feel more and more like the Braves should stand pat and go into spring training as is and make moves then if it is necessary. However, a couple of moves should be attempted. They go as follows:

The Pirates will now be in desperate mode since Huff is signing with the O’s. I think the Braves should consider offering Thorman for Gorzelany or Maholm. If the Pirates balk, place LaRoche back on the table but demand Gonzales and either Maholm or Gorzelany. If the Pirates say no, then hang up the phone and tell them good luck with having no power hitting 1B.

Next move involves the Devil Rays but not the one everyone wants. I say the Braves go after BJ Upton. Even the Rays can’t be so enamored with their own talent that they would have the same asking price for Upton that they do Baldelli. I say JS should offer Davies and Prado for Upton. If the Rays hedge, then go ahead and take Prado off the table and put Escobar in his place and also ask for Greg Norton. If the Rays say no, then they apparently don’t want young starting pitching as bad as they say they do and are asking way too much for their young talent. If I’m JS, I tell them good luck and hopefully they can rape some other team becasue the Braves won’t allow it to happen to them.

If Upton could be acquired, the Braves should then offer Diaz to the Cubs for Sean Marshall who could take Davies spot in the rotation or at least on the roster.

No matter what I think the Braves would be wise to sign Tony Armas or Tomo Ohka to a one year contract w/a club option for a second year worth $1.5 mil with incentives that could earn them another $750,000 to $ 1 mil. The incentives could be based upon starts and innings pitched. Either one of those guys would be good innings eater and would help any taxing of the bullpen, which is something Davies (even if he has a good year) is likely to do.

Also, nobody mentions this about last year but I have another reason for why this team struggled. Besides the injuries and bad luck, I think the youth of the team and the pressure of the streak itself played huge roles. Nobody on the team would ever admit it nor should they but I have to believe they were somewhat relieved that the streak ended. The streak became bigger than the team and , as some on here said many times last summer, continuing the streak seemed to be more important than getting back to the WS. In hindsight the Braves should have been looking to 2007 and beyond at the trade deadline last season instead of trying to catch the Mets or win the wild card, which we all knew deep down would not happen. Also, the young guys felt the pressure to extend the streak and you could tell it. At least it seemed that way to me. I thought Francoeur, LaRoche, and Langerhans played at times like they were pressing. The youth and inexperience of the bullpen showed and I definitely think at times those guys were pressing way too hard.

I honestly believe that 2007 will be a much better season and we will see a much more relaxed team and manager. Bobby Cox showed more visible frustration last season than I can ever remember. While he would always say positive things, his facial expressions and body language said something else. Chipper as much said that everyone inside that clubhosue knew that the happenings of the season were tearing him up inside. So, I really do think this team no matter its makeup will come into 2007 ready to play and ready to win!

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Simple question to you all….as well as DOB. Will Jeff Francouer have an On Base Percentage higher than .330 next season?

By KC

December 30, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Efrim D: Simple answer… I don’t know.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

Robert, a few weeks ago The Marlins tried to trade for Upton, they offered Nolasco. So I think they are lookin for way more than Davies and Prado, or Escobar. The D-Rays are stacked in the infield, and outfield, their only real holes in the field is 1B, and 2nd Base(but Cantu did have a great 2005 season and might can have another good season, depends on health). Cant believe they would not want LaRoche, but whatever, Basically the Devil Rays will wait it out until they get a real good young starting pitcher, and maybe a future closer, or (if not a closer, a good bulpen guy for the future), for Upton. And will wait it out for probably a very good Starting Pitcher, and Very good Bulpen guy(that might be a future closer), and a 1B(maybe Salty, D-Rays could put Salty in Double A for the entire 2007 season at 1B. And he will be able to play 1B for the D-Rays in 2008.

By KC

December 30, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

Simple question… will Jeff Francoeur hit higher than .270 with at least 30 homers and 100-plus RBI?

YES.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, Probably not, but OBP for a number 5-9 hitter is not the biggest thing in the World. But Francouer did have alot of two out RBI’s, and even you have to be impressed with that. He makes up for the OBP with his great defense, and His Cannon Arm.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, if you are a True Braves fan who would you rather have: Brian McCann, or Joe Mauer. Everybody talked about Joe Mauer, big deal, He was the Number 1 Pick overall a few years ago, and McCann was a 2nd round pick a few years ago, and 1 year younger. DOB, what was the fascination over Mauer, and why did all of the media just love him so much, and RARELY talked about McCann. Mauer had a better avererage but only about 16 points, but McCann had more Homeruns. Anybody tell me why McCann was never talked about. Dont get me wrong Mauer had a Fantastic season, but McCann had a Fantastic season also.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

I wonder if Efrim D, would rather have his boy Fernando Martinez over Francouer. Oh yeah you talkin about Fernando Martinez be so great, what about Cody Johnson, same age but Martinez has just had more seasoning in the Minors. Cody Johnson I think will be just as good as Martinez in the future.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

If Brian McCann was playing in NY, he would be considered the next Yogy Berra, and everybody knows that.

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Tough one. Probably McCann, but you can’t go wrong with either. McCann should of gotten a lot more hype. The kid is a future star. It is difficult to find a catcher that can hit .333 with a .388 OBP and still call a game as well as anyone in the National League.Those are words straight from BA. KC, lame that you didnt answer that question. You very well know that if Francouer is ever going to become an elite player, then he is going to have to learn how to at least have a .350 OBP. Will he? In my opinion, yes. But KC fails to say anything bad about the Braves in any way.

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

I also wanted to bring up the fact that this is an important year for the Braves minor league system. Andrus, Escobar and Salty had sub par years, and they are the Braves best prospects. It will also be interesting to see if Cody Johnson amounts to anything at all. Very excited about Jo Jo Reyes and Matt Harrison. I am hopeful that they can continue their development. The two prospects that I am most interested in is Kala Kaaihue and Eric Campbell. Will Campbell be moved to second base permantly? Is Kala Kaaihue the real deal at first? Thoughts?? Comments? KC comment on his boyfriend Chuck James???

By KC

December 30, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

Efrim D:

Wow, that’s bold criticism coming from someone who talks about the Mets rotation as though it’s the greatest thing since the 71’ Orioles. Oh wait, I forgot… you’re not a Mets fan.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Gonna be honest with you Efrim D, hope Francouer in the future has a 350 OBP but if it does not happen, I still think he can be a bigger Superstar than he is now, remember he is only 22 years old. Alot can change in a few years,(look at Andruw many people thought that he could be much better and produce more than 30 homeruns, and they thought he did not living up to promise, before the 2005 season, well 2005 came and he finally lived up to his promise). Andruw was about 28 years old, or something like that, now he is regarded for not only his glove but his bat too.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, Eric Campbell is gonna be very good, He will play either 2nd or Left Field in the Future, he is very interesting. He can flat out rake. Dont forget about Van Pope, might be the future also. Now Kala Kaaihue, I am not to high on him, dont think he will be a major part of the Braves in the future. Alot of people are high on Kala Kaaihue, but I have my doubts about him.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

Who do yall think is better, or who would yall rather have at 3rd Base if you are building a team Miguel Cabrera, Wright, Zimmerman, Alex Gordon(of the Royals), Braun(from the Brewers minors, gonna be a big player), Joe Crede, Sanchez(of the Pirates), Encarnacion(of the Reds), Andy LaRoche(of the Dodgers), Longoria(of the Devil Rays), Andy Marte. Sure I am missing some, but of these names who would you select to help build your franchise, and Which of the Younger names would you rather have, such as Gordon and people that have not accomplised much or anything in the ML.

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

I want Salty to be converted to 1st, but I understand their decision to keep him at catcher for trade value. Andrus has to live up to his hype that he gets. He is a baby though, tons of time for him to turn into a star. It would be nice for the Braves to have that power starting pitcher like a lot of other teams possess in their minors. I guy like Liriano, J. Weaver, Matt Cain, Chad Billingsley, Phillip Hughes, Homer Bailey, among others. But a lot of analysts project Chuck James, Davies, Reyes and Harrison to just be 3rd starters their whole career because of low strike out ratios. Sorry guys, you have to love a guy like Cain who throws hard as suppose to a soft tosser like James.

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

Miggy Cabrera, Wright, Gordon in that order. Cabrera is going to get 10 year 200 million dollar contract in 2 years.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 30, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

I honestly think we will see a terrific year from Francoeur. To me the kid appears to have a lot of drive and a lot confidence. He impresses me as the type that has been in a batting cage every day this winter and is seeking advice from anyone who will give it to him. He has shown the desire to be better and that in and of itself speaks volumes about him. I’m not big on player production predictions, but I will give one about Francoeur. It goes like this:

30-35HR 115RBI .275AVG .335OBP 10-15 outfield assists 3 errors or less 150 games played…..he has realized he doesn’t have to be an iron man and can come out of the lineup every now and then

By KC

December 30, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

Let me make this simple for you Efrim, Metro Man, and any other Mets fans here. Your reign atop the NL East will have been a short one.

The Mets and the Braves will both boast excellent offenses and bullpens. The difference will be the starting pitching. Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Davies will cary the Braves to another division title. And right now, I think they’re also the favorites to represent the NL in the World Series as well.

After next year, questions will have been answered about the ownership issue, and we’ll see how they shape up for 08’ then. But Atlanta has a lot of young talent, and they’re not going anywhere anytime soon. That’s the cold hard truth. Deal with it.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Efrim D, You think Cabrera will get that kind of money, I heard that but I cant believe he will get that kind of money, probably, if the market stays like it is now he might get, 8 years 144 million. Dont see any team goin to 10 years, not anymore at least. In your 7:12 post you talked about the Soft Tossers compared to Hard Throwers, I agree I would rather have hav a Hard Thrower also, but There are soft tossers that have been great(such as Maddux, Glavine, Moyer, and many more). If, (Big If) James can be similar to Glavine, I would take that in a Heartbeat, you probably would to. Also the Hard Tossers do have alot more injuries than Soft Tossers. But Cain could be similar to Smoltz, while James could be similar to Glavine. Who would I rather have (especially in the postseason), probably Cain, But James I think will have a very good career if healthy.

By Ron

December 30, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

This is a question to everybody. Who would yall rather have at GM. JS, or Omar. Yall know my answer, wondering what yalls answer will be.

By Yalls

December 30, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

JS

By joe brave

December 30, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

Hey Robert,etal. I’ve been working pretty steady been a few,I can’t help but notice,Metman and others,proclaiming The Mutts to be the beast of the EAST.well I have to question the reasoning behind that thought process,they do make pills for those symptoms.guys look at it like this,Smoltz age 39,Hampton age 34,Hudson age 31, James,25,Davies (who should be traded)22,O.Villareal(who should be the 5th starter)25 you get the picture here. now for the AGELESS GERIMUTTS, Glavine 41,El Dookie 40,Pedro(ouch my arm is falling off)38,you get the picture here.lets look at the pens.ATL avg age 25, with the exception of Wicky(whom i would chose over Wagner (too many crucial homers)look it up!!both are in there late Thirties ok. but the Mutts (I can’t stand emm)lost 3/5 of there pen from last season.that said no one here is that asinine not to know AGE TAKES ITS TOLL and what was good today can and will fall apart Tomorrow!!!just facts for you Ignorant Mutts fans there is no way the Mutts match what they did last year look it up!!!!!

By joe brave

December 30, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

until OMAR wins 14 straight I have to go with a Proven Winner. J.S. !!!!!!!!!!!

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

I like hard throwers in the postseason. KC, Im a braves fan. Im glad to hear you think the Braves are the best team in the National League at this point right now. Im sorry to say that I disagree with you. Thats my opinion, you don;t have to like it. I just think that it is a little strong of a prediction because you don;t know how Hudson and Hampton will pitch next year. I mean the Padres sure have a good team. Peavy, Young Maddux, Hensley. Good rotation there. The Dodgers have a strong team. The Cardinals just won the world series and will be a good team again next year. The Phillies are a much improved team as well. The NL is a crap shoot, but don;t be suprised if the Mets beat the Braves out again next year. Now if the Braves go out and acquire Rocco Baldelli, shut down 7th inning reliever, and starting pitcher, then they are a better team than the Mets. But until they do that, the Mets to me are the team to beat in the National League. Just because I think the Mets are a better team doesn’t mean that I am not a Braves fan. Im just a negative Braves fan. Last year bothered me a whole lot. I hated reading columns and game summaries by Mark Bowman about how the Braves are sooooo close to getting over that hump. They never did, and I truly believed they wouldn’t because of the way JS pieced together that bullpen before the start of last year. Just my frustrated thoughts. I think KC is still a little unhappy about 2006 as well. KC…..what do you think?

By joe brave

December 30, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

aND JUST HOW IN THE BLUE HELL ARE THE PHILLIES IMPROVED? NO PITCHING THEY ARE THE BRAVES OF THE 80’S

By Zac

December 30, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

Look here, I need to know how Soriano is doing in winter league baseball. The post you gave us about him throwing softer and “looking lost” has been robbing me of sleep. Also, I’m an integral music uploader for a big online forum, and I could send you links for any albums you can’t find. Email me.

By KC

December 30, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

Okay. It’s just that the way you seem to dote on the Mets and bash the Braves, and the fact that you live in NY (I think you said that, didn’t you?)… it just all added up to Mets fan posing as a Braves fan. But I’ll take your word for it.

Efrim, if you’re a frustrated Braves fan, that’s certainly understandable after the 2006 season. I think Bowman kept writing all that stuff because I think the Braves were never all that far from getting over the hump. They just never did it. I mean… early in the year, it was all about the bullpen. All of us Braves fans thought “fix the bullpen, and we’ll be in good shape”. Well the bullpen was terrific in September, and we still couldn’t gain much ground. It was a very frustrating season. However, I don’t think you should read too much into it. The Braves are not likely to look remotely the same in 07’.

First of all, I and some others here have had a hard time understanding your loathing of the Braves lineup. This was the best offensive team in the league last year. That’s a verifiable truth. There may be things you don’t like about this offense, but the reality is that the offense was not the problem last year… it was the only thing that kept the Braves close to .500, and it will be a major strength again next year.

The bullpen also figures to be excellent. I’m not sure you mind has been changed about Wickman at all over the past few days, but the FACT of the matter is that he’s been one of the best closers in baseball over the past 2 years. Now we add one of the best setup men in the game to go along with a slew of good young arms. Yates and McBride really came into their own toward the end of last season. Boyer, one of the Braves best young arms, will be healthy and back in the fold. BTW: Why you dismiss Boyer, I don’t know. He only missed one season, and it’s not like they had to sever and surgically reattach his arm or something. He’s likely to be just fine. Villarreal seemed to regain the form that made him dominant in Arizona, finishing the 06’ season with a 1.42 ERA in Sept/Oct. Chad Paronto was also very solid, and will be back unless they move him to make room for another lefty. This bullpen looks very good right now. And with the recent departures in the Mets’ pen, I no longer believe they have the advantage in that department.

The Braves lineup and bullpen look as good as any team in the league, so it all comes down to the rotation. I understand the reservations about Hudson and Hampton, but I think the “?” hanging over their heads has been exaggerated. Hampton will have had a FULL 18 month recovery, and that’s a huge factor in all of this. As for Hudson, I explained the other day why I think there’s every reason to believe that he’ll be solid. Frankly, we just need one of them to be good in order to be one of the better rotations in the league. There are only a few teams that 3-deep in their rotation, and none that are 4 or 5 deep that I can see. However, I do believe Hudson will be solid, and so will Hampton (especially in the 2nd half).

Put it all together, and I just don’t see a team in the NL that looks any better.

By KC

December 30, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

I have to ask one question… you’ve said that you’re a Braves fan, but have no denied being a Mets fan. Are you a Mets fan?

By Ron

December 30, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this

Joe Brave, gotta agree the Phils have improved slightly with the Freddie Garcia trade, Yes I know he is not what he used to be, but he will be a pretty good player for the Phils. The Braves better win the East because that Wild Card will be tough. The Brewers, I think will win the Central(they will be a very very good team, and dont forget about the Cubs, and Derek Lee). And heard earlier that Randy Johnson will Probably go back to the Diamond Backs, dont know for sure. The Padres I think will be tough, But I think that the Dodgers will create havoc on the basepaths with Pierre and Furcal. Dont sleep on the Phils either because they do have young pitching in there rotation that is good, Marlins will be competitive. Those other teams would scare me more than the Mets, Phils, or Marlins.(Just my opinion!)

By Lew

December 30, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

It really doesn’t matter how much the Phillies improve their pitching-They still have to pitch in Philadelphia. There was an interview with Soriano in the new issue of Chop Talk. It was done recently and he says he is all the way back in Winter Ball. No lasting effects from getting nailed in the head and no arm problems. He says his fastball is back to normal.

By joe brave

December 30, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

D.O.B asked me what deals I would make right now. well after thinking on it here they are. 1.Salty to Det. for W.Ledezma (lefty for the pen) 2. K.Davies,R.Langerhans to Texas for I. Kinsler/S.Feldman 3.sign T.Armas to a 2 yr contract keep A.LaRoche and play Thorman in left with no platoon.let Kinsler lead off

By KC

December 30, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

Efrim:

Another question…you haven’t denied being a Mets fan but you haven’t told us if you are a Marlins fan or a Phillies fan or even a Nationals fan. I want to know if you are a fan or not.

By Efrim D

December 30, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

Im a Braves fan. I have their 2007 team calender on my wall. Franks, Chipper Andruw and Smoltz are on it. From MLB.com. Or at least it says that is where it is from. I like alot of High OBP guys at the top of the lineup. As the team stands right now I would figure they would have to go with a lineup sporting:

SS Renteria C McCann 3B C. Jones CF A. Jones 1B Laroche RF Francouer LF Langerhans/Diaz/Thorman 2B Johnson/Prado

A very strong 1-6, maybe the best in the league. Key word…Maybe.

The 7 and 8 will struggle, but that is fine. I felt that Laroche should of hit higher in the order last year. The second Chipper gets hurt in 07, and he will…. this is the lineup they should go with.

3B Aybar SS Renteria C McCann CF A. Jones 1B Laroche RF Francouer LF Thorman/Diaz/Langerhans 2B Johnson/ Prado

Id like to keep Laroche at 5 all year long. Imagine Rocco Baldelli on that team. Pencil him in at LF. It would be amazing.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 30, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

Joe Brave, I like your deals. If the Tigers would give the Braves Ledezma for Salty that deal should most definitely be made. I also like Davies and Langerhans to Texas but I would go for Kinsler and Robinson Tejada. I really think Armas or Ohka should be signed. Truth be told if the Braves could swing Tejada they should make an effor to get Baldelli. Cox could give Thorman some time in LF and 1B to give both Baldelli and LaRoche some rest and Thorman could be penciled in to play LF in 2008 while Baldelli plays CF. Man, that would be nice if that happened. Honestly, I think it is all possible except the Ledezma deal. I’m not sure the Tigers would only take Salty.

I think the next week and a half will tell a lot. If JS plans on making any deals, it will be in that time frame.

I also think having K. Johnson hit in the bottom of the lineup would be great. The kid can flat out hit and would give the offense great balance.

By ernesto

December 31, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this

I know there’s no way it’s going to happen, but I’d love to see us work something with the Dodgers to get Penny, he only makes like what 5 mil, he won 16 games, throws gas, and I think he’s just starting to come into his own. Smoltz, Hudson, Penny, Hampton, James. Me likey likey.

By Metropolitan Man

December 31, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

Now that I have the floor to myself, let me get my say in the last braves-METS topic for 2006. You guys tried to cyber jump me yesterday but I’m still a METS fan. Now I beleive it is you, these same fans who cry about no money, when is the team being sold, and why no MLB talent at every position. On the outside looking in why wouldnt I feel confident in a frnachise who is just getting a new stadium, TV deal, and cash to name the stadium Citified (20 mil a year). Does that sound like a fan who would worry? I would worry if my team has been in selling limbo for 2-3 years, payroll will not increase until we get a possible buyer, and everything we had going on during our streak is pretty much dead or dying. No more sellouts at home, no more games on TBS, favorite announcers getting shipped off and out…need I go on. This is the state of the NOW braves, not the 14 choke artist braves.
Now with that said I very much welcome this season and the one after next, and the one after next……Being a braves fan is about to be difficult because actually, the best has come and gone. Dont get me wrong, sell the team, get payroll back up and then see where you stand, until then, watch the decline.
I know you guys hate the METS just like I hate the braves and that clouds our true judgement of each team but thats just nature of the beast. But being die hard lets you know that the enemy wins some and lose some. You did both in 14 years, move over, there are more hungrier franchises that will turn 14 trips into a WS dynasty, not a playoff joke every year. The METS streak started last year while yours ended, GET OVER THAT!

By The Grinch

December 31, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

Just dropped in for a sec to say WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF! Go Dawgs! Baseball talks may now resume.

By Sam

December 31, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Met Man,

I gotta ask, why are you on this blog? Do you really expect the posters here to agree with you about the Mets? Espcially when you throw out sutff like GET OVER THAT? Choke artists? Dude, you finished behind the Choke Artists for 14 straight seasons. What exactly does that make your team? And, while on the subject - way to turn your 2006 postseason berth into a WS title. I guess the Mets choked. Right?

By Metropolitan Man

December 31, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

By trailing your team for those 14 years made the METS losers. That was when they were in decline, exactly where the braves are headed now. Thats my point, its a changing of the guard and you heard you it hear 1st folks. I never expect a braves fan to agree even though it has happended on this blog, but I know baseball, I love the METS and I hate the braves. Thats enough for me to come on this blog and shoot the breeze. Any other questions SAM.

By Jared

December 31, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

“Jared, saw your question and just left a message with Reitsma’s agent. I’ll let you know if and when he calls back, but my guess is the Braves have made an offer.”

I didn’t expect that. Thanks.

Also another rumor from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette:

“The Pirates remain intensely interested in trading for Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche, but they continue to have no answer for the Braves’ wish for a leadoff-hitting type in addition to closer Mike Gonzalez. The Pirates’ only player in that mold is center fielder Chris Duffy, but they believe they have no replacement if he is dealt.”

Finally, Metropolitan Man just admit you are a bangwagon fan. Every year for most of the past decade, give or take, you put your Mets’ cap on at the start of the season and the Yankees’ cap on during the second half and the playoffs. Most Mets’ fans are like that, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you are the same. If the Mets’ tank in 2007, I know you still won’t be here.

Met Fans: all the arrogance of Yankee fans, with none of the justification for it.

By Lew

December 31, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Someone mentioned concern over whether or not Soriano had lost it because of a couple of mediocre Winter League Games. This quote from him in Chop Talk a week or so ago- “I’m throwing good pitches. I know fans were worried about how I’d pitch after the accident, but I’m back to where I was before.” Couple this with the reaction to his loss by Seattle fans and I think you have your answer. We got the best of that deal. Metro Dude-We don’t have financial difficulties. We just can’t spend ridiculous money on free agents-which we have NOT been doing anyway. You make a big deal of the sparseness of our bench, but I contend that it is easier to find a pinch hitter than to find at least the two quality pitchers that the Mets lack. I can only see your pathetic diatribe about the Braves problems as a way of diverting attention from the real issue-The Mets had their one shot and blew it when Beltran looked totally outclassed by that Wainwright curve. I wonder if that look has left his face yet. I, personally will remember it for many years to come. That was the Mets chance. There is certainly no dynasty in New York-on either end of town. All that money has benefited you how? It enabled you to acquire Moises Alou. Just keep him away from treadmills. Didn’t he fall off twice, tearing his knee up both times?

By Sam

December 31, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Met Man,

Two more. The same two, actually, since you answered neither in your post. Why are you on this blog? Did the Mets choke last year?

By JC FROM UT

December 31, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

If Pitt is still wanting LaRoche, and Huff has already signed with the O’s, then why doesn’t JS ask for Gorzalany and Gonzales? Even if the deal is one for one (Gonzales for LaRoche) I think the deal has to be made. It would help this season to shorten the games plus give us the closer for the future. Sure Adam is going to be a fine Major Leagur hitter but a good closer is very hard to come by. Like they always say trade a guy one year too early rather than one year to late.

By The Grinch

December 31, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

We need Gonzalez. We could bat Langerhaans cleanup with a bullpen like that and still win. And I left a WOOF! off earlier; I meant there to be five. Metro Man: You’ve always seemed like a pretty reasonable dude in the past, but I’ve got to totally disagree with you about the “changing of the guard.” The Mets only limped into the post-season last year because the rest of the east was too sorry to take it from you. I remember the whole second half of last season every time we (or the Phills, or the Marlins) would go on a big losing streak we’d think “well, guess the Mets are gonna run away with it now.” You guys obliged by losing with us. You didn’t want it. You tried to give it away. You finally took it from the lame and the dead by default, then choked in the playoffs like you always accuse us of doing. Next year, we won’t be anything like as bad as we were (healthy SP, no Reitsma and Sosa, addition of Wickman and Soriano, etc) while you guys have done nothing but add Alou and lose Pedro and half your bullpen. You’re still the Mets, the Braves are still the Braves, and the Phillies will always suck no matter how good they are. Last year was an abberation; next year you lose again. Yes, I’ll put my money where my mouth is; name the amount you feel comfortable putting on your “up and coming franchise.” My guess is that smack talk is more likely than cash, and I wouldn’t blame you.

By Metropolitan Man

December 31, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

So I will continue to blog here and mesh with braves fans but at the same tiem keep my METS affiliation. Oh, I hate the Stankees too but hate the braves the most. So thank you for rallying braves fans to beleive last year was an abrreviation instead of the the grim truth of things to come.

By Metropolitan Man

December 31, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

So I will continue to blog here and mesh with braves fans but at the same tiem keep my METS affiliation. Oh, I hate the Stankees too but hate the braves the most. So thank you for rallying braves fans to beleive last year was an abrreviation instead of the the grim truth of things to come.

By Lew

December 31, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

I gotta agree with Brother Grinch-Get Gonzalez and it doesn’t matter if Prado leads off and hits .250. With a bullpen like that, it not only makes the pen better, but think of Hudson going 51/3 innings and flaming out. Reduce that to 5 and he wins 20. Smoltz, with a bona fide bullpen behind him wins 20 and the Cy Young last year. It also keeps him fresh for the post season where he’s a monster. Hampton coming back from injury and only has to pitch 5 or 6 innings per game. James can develop without having to take it all on his young shoulders. Cormier has a 2.82 ERA when pitching more than 51/3 innings. A stud bullpen makes him a 12-15 game winner. No brainer, y’all, we got to get Gonzalez. It will set us up this year and for several years into the future. As far as left field-don’t we have the same left fielders who led us to the 2nd most potent run scoring machine in the NL? Now football-Go Dawgs!!!!! Woof, woof, woof, woof, woof. Was that a great game, or what?

By Lew

December 31, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

MetroDude-We will always welcome you and your delusional thoughts. We will even commisserate with you when the Mets get their behinds roundly stomped by the Braves in 07 (well, maybe not commisserate, too much). You’re right, 06 was an abreviation (at least for Chipper and half of our pitching staff), but it was much more of an abberation.

By Webster

December 31, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Main Entry: stink Pronunciation: ‘sti[ng]k Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): stank /’sta[ng]k /; or stunk /’st&[ng]k/; stunk; stink·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Old English stincan; akin to Old High German stinkan to emit a smell 1 : to emit a strong offensive odor 2 : to be offensive ; also : to be in bad repute 3 : to possess something to an offensive degree 4 : to be extremely bad or unpleasant - stinky /’sti[ng]-kE/ adjective

By The Grinch

December 31, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Why yes, Lew; it was a rather fabulous game. The SEC has much to fear in the near future. Something tells me Stafford was more successful with the ladies in Athens last night than your average true freshman. IT’S RAINING HERE AND IT SHOULD BE SNOW. 65 degrees and soaking wet on New Year’s Eve. Blah. DOB, how did your Jayhawks do in their bowl? Oops…:-)

“About as well as UGA does in hoops.” There; beat ya to it.

By The Grinch

December 31, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

I guess that answers the question: Wither Stinky?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 31, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

If the hangup to the deal with the Pirates is JS’ insistence on Duffy, then I think that is a huge mistake on the part of JS. With Hillenbrand signing AND Huff the Braves have the Pirates over a barrell. They have no more options at 1B other than Casey Kotchman from the Angels. But, even with him, they don’t have anything the Angles would really want. I guess they could offer McLouth or Duffy, but the Angles don’t really need either of them and if the Pirates were to trade those guys for Kotchman, they might as well do it for LaRoche. LaRoche is an established major league hitter while Kotchman is not. JS should ask for Gonzales and Maholm. He could perhaps throw in a mid level prospect or something. The Pirates are not anywhere near in a position of strength to say no. JS can simply say, “Look, Littlefield, you need a 1B who is lefthanded and can hit the cover off the ball. That is Adam LaRoche. You have no other options now. All the other options have been snagged by other teams. Don’t you think you can absorb the loss of Gonzales and Maholm more than you can going into another season without a power hitting lefty in that ballpark. You had both of those guys last year and still finished 5th. This year you will finish last if the roster stands as is. So, give us Maholm and Gonzales for LaRoche. Hell, we’ll throw in Peter Moylan. So, do we have a deal or not? Remember, Dave, we are in contention with or without Gonzales. You are destined for the basement without LaRoche.”

The Braves can offer Maholm and Escobar to the Rays for Baldelli and this team is on its way. Really think about it. What choice does the Pirates have? If they refuse the deal, it only goes to show Littlefied is the idiot that the Bucco Blog says that he is.

DOB, what do you think? If the hangup to the deal is acquiring a leadoff hitter, JS is missing the boat. Duffy is a headcase and a “problem child”. He and Castillo both have serious “primadonna” syndromes, so why would the Braves want either of them here. And if the Rays continue to snort the “cola” and say no to a deal with Maholm then the Braves keep him and have a rotation of: Hudson, Smoltz, Hampton, James, and Maholm with Davies, Cormier, Johnson, and Harrison as insurance against injuries. Now, even the most ardent of Mets fans would have to say that is a pretty imposing rotation when compared to theirs or the Phillies and even the Marlins.

By Metropolitan Man

December 31, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

I think you guys forgot how bad the braves were before the “run” just like I remember how good the METS were before the mediocrity. So with that said I have a reasonable thought to the braves returning to old and the METS returning to glory. Its not hard to understand this. You guys had a 90 million plus payroll for 2006. It hasnt been under 88mil as far back as 2000. You guys are crying broke but JS got people to come for nothing becasue of winning which died around here last year. Now if you aint paying, I aint playing, especially for a braves franchise with a bipolar owner (TW) who has no clue what to do with them. You guys are 1 step away from being the Expose when they couldnt fill a seat and MLB just left them for dead. See the pattern yet brave lovers???

By Metropolitan Man

December 31, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Its not just me harping on the METS, its the writers even though it means squat, at least I know there is likeminded people out there.

The New York Mets lost out on Daisuke Matsuzaka and Zito, leaving them with Tom Glavine, Orlando Hernandez and a spring pitch-off for the next three spots, perhaps casting Mike Pelfrey and Philip Humber into important early roles. Opinions vary on Pedro Martinez’s return from shoulder surgery, the most optimistic of them putting him on a mound in mid-to-late summer. That said, and even with the Philadelphia Phillies’ superior rotation, the Mets should pound their way to another division title.

They lost some match-up options in the bullpen when Chad Bradford went to the Orioles and some personality when Cliff Floyd was allowed to walk, but they think pitching coach Rick Peterson can do something with Ambiorix Burgos and, handled gingerly, believe 40-year-old Moises Alou still has some production left.

Unlike last season, the Mets will feel some pressure from below, certainly until Martinez returns. Aided by the late addition of Jamie Moyer, Phillies pitchers had some momentum going at the end of last season, and now Freddy Garcia brings a workhorse’s arm and a veteran’s sensibility. GM Pat Gillick also signed Adam Eaton, who only twice in his seven-year career has made more than 22 starts, so that might not work out as well.

A year older now and with harmony between the front and manager’s offices, the Florida Marlins have remained young, remained inexpensive and remained talented. Their primary decision will be whether to deal Dontrelle Willis, who is gaining on free agency, or Miguel Cabrera, an uncommonly good hitter with conditioning issues. They still need a closer.

The Atlanta Braves’ signature pitching slipped badly in 2006, particularly in the bullpen, so it didn’t matter that they actually scored more runs than the Mets. Toward that end, GM John Schuerholz added a couple arms (Soriano, Tanyon Sturtze) and the rotation welcomes back Mike Hampton from elbow surgery, and the belief is that Chuck James is headed toward something special. It’s probably not enough, and it appears Andruw Jones, who will be very popular in free agency next winter, could be a trade target come mid-summer.

Either way, they’re better off than the Washington Nationals, who’ve handed rookie manager Manny Acta one of the worst rosters in baseball.

By MBATL

December 31, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Robert, now THAT I agree with… Laroche for Gonzalez and Maholm. OR, we could change the direction a little and try to get McCutchen - probably a year away, but might be the CF we need for the future - along with Gonzalez. In that case, we wouldn’t even need to chase Baldelli.

I also think we should go slow on trading Salty for someone like Ledezma; Salty’s a top prospect, for sure, but had a bad year last year. I’d try to get him a full year at AA/AAA and expect much more than that in return down the road. If it’s part of a deal to get a ‘real’ centerfielder for the long haul, or a closer, sure, but don’t deal him unless the return is great - he will have too much value later.

By Rosalynn

December 31, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Jimma is most upset todah. Fihst, we lose that deah boy Gehald Fohd, a day aftah we lose the Godfatha of Soul, and now the ajc.com is repohting “Blizzahd Hits Plains!” Jimma is beside himself! Not to mention that Jimma is still feeling some repuhcussion from his latest book. Add to that that Gehald Fohd is being remembahed as a bettah President than Jimma and you can unduhstand why my Jimma is so upset!

“What? What, Jimma?” Oh, my goodness! Jimma is feeling bettah. “Here I come Commanduh! Tuhnabout! Ahm the torpedos!”

That didn’t take long.

Let’s talk some baseball. What is all this chattah about needing a leadoff hittah? What good is a leadoff battah if the team is playing BoogahBall? Oh, fohgive me foh that! What good is a leadoff battah if the team is plahing for the three run homah? Is Chippa gonna move the runnah ovah? Andruw? Pleeaassse! That’s not gonna happen. Jimma and I wehe discussing leadoff just last night and Jimma thinks that nice boy Brian Jorhdan should bat leadoff. Wondah if that boy is related to Hamilton Jerhden?

Losing James Brown is taking its toll on Jimma. Just this morhning Jimma was singing and singing his favorhite James Brown song, “They Call me Mistah Pitiful” when I told Jimma, “you old fool that is an Otis Redding song - not James Brown.”

By David O'Brien

December 31, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Robert, what I think is that there’s NO WAY Littlefield gives up Maholm AND Gonzalez for LaRoche. As you’ve probably noticed, teams aren’t giving up young starting pitchers in this market, especially not mid- and small-market teams, and especially not young lefties.

You really think the Pirates are going to give up one of the best two or three lefty relievers in the game, and a promising young lefty starter, for LaRoche? No. Not going to happen.

And also, you sure seem ready to turn over that entire right side of the infield and a quarter of the lineup to unproven guys and/or guys new to a position.

By Metropolitan Man

December 31, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

O.K., i’m done for 2006. Baseball fans of all teams please have a safe transition from 2006-2007. Happy NEW YEAR to all and hope everyone is around for the fall classic when the METS beat…….whoever!!!!!

By MBATL

December 31, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

I think you guys are overstating the ‘five-inning game’ theory.

If our starters routinely go just 5 innings and change, we’re using at least 3, probably 4, relievers every night. I don’t care how good they are, we’ll burn them out at that rate.

Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James - these guys are professionals, paid well (James’ day will come); we need 6-7 innings on average out of them. Sure, we need to try to keep Smoltz down to 200 innings, rather than the 230 he’s thrown the last two years, but don’t go overboard.

Unless you’ve got a couple of Mike Marshalls in the ‘pen (and we don’t… Soriano, Boyer, Villarreal have all had injury problems - and Gonzalez too, if we get him). We need to keep IP by the ‘pen down to about 500, and that means getting at least 6 IP on average from the starters. And when you’re paying guys 8, 10, 14 mil, you should expect closer to 7 on average.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 31, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, how about settling for Gorzelany instead of Maholm. That would be fine as well to me. I really don’t see where Duffy or Castillo or McLouth for that matter is worth it. Now, McClutchen would be but I highly doubt the Pirates will get rid of him either. You’re probably right about theh Pirates not giving up Maholm, but am I wrong to say that JS is now in the driver’s seat on this deal. The Pirates desperately want and need a lefty power hitter or at least a power hitting 1B and with Huff signing with the O’s they now have nowhere to go. Are you saying you wouldn’t go after Gonzales? Are you saying the Braves should just stand pat and go into spring training with what they have?

It appears to me for all of JS’ bs about a leadoff hitter not being important, it seems to be very important to him. If the only hold up on the deal is the Pirates reluctance to give up Duffy, then JS was telling an untruth about his view of the leadoff role.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 31, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

I agree, MBATL. I think five innings is too short. I think expecting our starters to go six or seven is more like it. I do think we can shorten the game to six innings. Of course, the pen won’t be needed every night and I think we will see better starting pitching with a better pen. I have to wonder is some of Hudson’s problems haven’t been from overexerting himself because he felt he had to go seven and eight innings every start just to have a chance to win. He didn’t have to do that in Oakland. I think the starters knew from opening day that the bullpen sucked and could not leave the game in their hands. When you know that it totally changes the way you pitch.

By NYM

December 31, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Lew, you’re always bringing up Beltrans look when he struck out looking to end the game of the NLCS. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but that was probably the same look the Braves had for 162 games. Sounds like you’re just jealous because Beltran has pounded the Braves since coming to the NL and it’s hurt you feelings. IT’s Ok to cry Lew……Just let it out.

By Eric

December 31, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

I know strengthening the bullpen is priority number 1 this offseason, but let me ask this - would you trade LaRoche for Baldelli, straight deal? If that’s the case, do you think the Rays would trade Baldelli for Gonzalez, straight deal? (I really don’t think so, but worth pondering). If that’s the case, then how about a 3-way deal involving those 3 players?

By journalist jimmy smith

December 31, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

rjitb, when the season started the starters sucked worse than the pen.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 31, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Eric, could be worth looking at. I don’t if it would happen because the Devil Rays seem to think all their talent is the second coming of Babe Ruth.

NYM, the Mets have a great team, but it is not decidedly better than the Braves, Phillies, or Marlins. It just isn’t…right now. The Mets starting pitching is no better than the Braves or Phillies and sure as hell isn’t better than the Marlins. The Braves and Phillies both outscored the Mets last year. What do you guys not get about that? Its okay to be fan but have some perspective. I have consumed myself all offseason with the Braves and can’t wait until February 14th comes. However, I can look at this team objectively and say that while it is good, it is far from great. Although some here including a wiser man than myself, DOB, disagree with me I think a player of Rocco Baldelli’s caliber or even what a Chone Figgins could bring to the offense is of greater value than what LaRoche does since I think Thorman could similate or at least get close to prouducing what LaRoche does if given the chance. I acknowledge the the rotation has a lot of “what ifs” and 2B is a HUGE question mark until otherwise proven but again, I can admit that about my team. You Mets fans act like the team is perfect when it is far from it. Your bench is not nearly as great as you seem to think and you have an old team that is susceptible to injury. Don’t think so? Ask your cross town rivals and see what they tell you? Why do you think they are trying to get younger by getting rid of Randy Johnson and are reluctant to part with Melkey Cabrera? Just be objective, man, is all I’m asking.

And one more thing. I think the Mets offense is awesome. But, where did that offense go in the NLCS? That has to be troubling. I have seen that type of production falloff before.

By KC

December 31, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Metro Man: The numbers you were looking at that indicated a 90 mill payroll are misleading. There are many things they don’t take into account. DOB gave a complete rundown on the payroll thing in a previous blog. Maybe you missed that. The Braves have been at 80 million for several years, and remain there. I think there’s a resonable chance that we’ll be at 90 mill or (slightly) better in 08’, but that was not the case last year, nor will it be this year.

“their (the Phillies) superior rotation”

What???

The Phillies have two decent starters. Cole Hamels, who admittedly is a stud, and the wife beater-Brett Myers. Oh wait, I forgot… they signed Adam Eaton! LOL!!!!!!!

The Mets, Braves, and Phillies all have this in common… they are the 3 elite offensive teams in the NL. Metro Man, the Mets will not “pound their way to another division title” next year. All three of these teams will be among the league leaders in runs scored again next season. IT WILL COME DOWN TO PITCHING!!! Now, the Mets pitched well enough last year to allow the offense to work. The Braves didn’t. I suspect things will be more than a little different this year. I think it’s amazaing what the Mets did, in light of their starting pitching problems. They deserve a lot of credit for that. I’m not trying to take anything away from them for that accomplishment. However, I don’t think they can repeat the same level of success with that starting rotation.

If the Mets bullpen can stay close to the same level at which they performed last year, despite losing several arms… the Mets should be able to at least hang around in the division race, even with their thin starting pitching. Then when or IF Pedro returns at 100%, the Mets could be a threat to make a late run at the division.

As for the Braves… I guess your expectations for this team have everything to do with Hudson and Hampton. Those guys will decide if Atlanta is 2-deep or 4-deep in the rotation. If you believe, as I do, that both will turn in quality seasons, then you have to favor the Braves in the NL East, and in the NL in general. If you think the Braves won’t get much out of either, then the Braves don’t look as good. However, I should point out that even if both Hudson and Hampton fall on their faces this year (which I think is highly unlikely), Atlanta’s rotation is still on par with pretty much everything else in the NL.

By KC

December 31, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Robert: “The Braves and Phillies both outscored the Mets last year. What do you guys not get about that?

That’s an excellent question, isn’t it? Why is it that Mets fans continue to talk about the Mets as though they are leaps and bounds better then anything else out there offensively… despite the facts.

To hear Mets fans talk, you’d think we’re talking about the 57’ Yankees here. METS FANS, your team IS NOT any better than the Phillies or Braves offensively. You can’t keep ignoring the numbers. The facts speak for themselves.

Your pitching sure as hell isn’t any better than Atlanta’s right now. Living in a fantasy land won’t change the reality.

By MBATL

December 31, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

KC, I grew up down the street from the Myers family… know his father better than I know Brett - but ‘wife beater’ is really unneccessary. They’re a very decent family, and the guy made a mistake on a night when they were out partying. Even his wife (his “high school sweetheart”, btw, has ackowledged that he’s not a violent guy.)

No big deal, just felt the need to share that.

By NYM

December 31, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

you could score 9 runs but lose 10-9. Then the next game you win 3-2. which runs mattered more. I think you get my point. I beleve the Mets won more one run games than any team in the NL. That’s how you win divisions. there are many variables that factor into wins and losses. sure the braves scored more run than the Mets but still finished under .500. I can’t predict what will happen in 2007 but until the Braves PROVE* it, the Mets are the better team.

By David O'Brien

December 31, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

Ron, I was limiting my discussion to your proposed LaRoche for Gonzalez/Maholm trade. Had I known you meant as part of a multiple-trade scenario involving the aquisition of Baldelli or Figgins, I would have a different opinion. But since we’re dealing with reality, and the reality is that it’s difficult to pull off even one significant trade, much less two or three …

As you recall, I advocated a Baldelli trade weeks ago, for the impact it would have now and in the future. But it’s become apparent the D-Rays want a young, proven starter (not Kyle Davies) in return for Baldelli, so reality is the Braves probably aren’t going to get him. And the Angels aren’t willing to part with their top young pitchers, so the Braves aren’t likely to make a deal with them for Figgins alone.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 31, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, someone brought up an excellent question earlier. If the Rays would take Gonzales (which I don’t know why they wouldn’t), would JS consider a three way deal which sent Gonzales to the Rays, LaRoche to the Pirates, and Baldelli to the Braves. I’m sure the Braves would have to throw in Escobar as well. The question would then become is Baldelli worth LaRoche straight up, which is basically what the trade would amount to. My answer to that is…YES! Baldelli brings the leadoff hitter the Braves need and the replacement for Andruw. JS insisted at the winter meetings that Thorman could handle 1st, so what would be the problem? Has that even been pursued. I know the Pirates wanted to trade Gonzales straight up for LaRoche in the first place. I guess the question would be if the Rays would go along with it. So, again, DOB, has this proposal even been broached? If not, why not?

By David O'Brien

December 31, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

Robert, just scrolled up to this one by you: “It appears to me for all of JS’ bs about a leadoff hitter not being important, it seems to be very important to him. If the only hold up on the deal is the Pirates reluctance to give up Duffy, then JS was telling an untruth about his view of the leadoff role.”

I think you’re trying to connect things that shouldn’t be connected. Most industry types will tell you that you wouldn’t want to trade a power-hitting corner infielder who’s first-time arbitration eligible, with two more years before free agency, for a lefty reliever who MIGHT end up being a long-term closer, but who’s had less than one full season in the role and developed elbow tendinitis late in that season.

So if Schuerholz is indeed asking for more _ and I don’t know about the validity of the Duffy part, though it certainly could be true _ does that mean getting a leadoff hitter is essential to him? No, it means he doesn’t want to give up LaRoche for just a lefty reliever, however strong that lefty reliever might be, and it means the Pirates have very little else that could help the Braves right now, and Duffy is one of those pieces that could.

By The Grinch

December 31, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

Happy New Year, Metro Man; at least until May! BTW everyone, I wasn’t saying the Braves’ starters should only pitch five innings. I’m saying that with the addition of Gonzalez, they’d know they only had to pitch five on any given night, which would take a huge amount of pressure off them and likely enable them to pitch deeper more often. And if one falters early in a game, no biggie. Psychology is a huge part of this game; don’t tell me Smoltz and Hudson didn’t try too hard last year knowing the corpses they would be entrusting a lead to.

By KC

December 31, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

Here are my National League Power Rankings as things stand right now:

1. Braves: Bullpen is fixed, should be very good. The offense is still one of the best. The Braves rotation is potentially excellent. Not a sure thing, but “potentially excellent” is more than any other NL team can say. Of course, as mentioned somewhere previously, it does all come down to Hudson and Hampton.

2. Mets: Can they get enough out of their rotation?

3. Phillies: Same story as the Mets: good bullpen, great offense. They’ll win ballgames, but can rotation carry them to a division title or a Wild Card?? Newsflash for Phillies brass: Adam Eaton isn’t the answer.

4. Dodgers: Their pitching will be a little better with Schmidt, but offensively they lost Drew, and could they be so lucky as to have Nomar for 469 AB’s again?

5. Padres: They got Marcus Giles who should prosper there, but lost Dave Roberts and Mike Piazza. They have a decent rotation and good bullpen, but they won’t score many runs.

6. Giants: They replaced Schmidt with Zito. Dave Roberts will help their offense a bit, but no significant off-season upgrade.

7. Cardinals: They’re not what they used to be. Not only did they not bolster their rotation, but they lost Suppan and very well may lose Jeff Weaver too.

8. Cubs: Soriano is a big pick-up, but Jason Marquis and Ted Lilly aren’t going to stabilize that pitching staff. They need a miracle – namely, for Wood and Prior to stay healthy.

9. Astros: Pettitte’s gone, they didn’t re-sign Huff, so offensive problems still exist. If Roger doesn’t return, they’ve got no chance.

10. Marlins: Lots of young talent, but they’ll have to spend more than 14 million to legitimately compete.

11. Reds

12. Brewers: They’ve quietly put together a good rotation with Sheets, Capuano, and Suppan, but the bullpen’s nothing to write home about, and the offense is weak.

13. Rockies

14. Diamondbacks

15. Pirates

16. Nationals

By KC

December 31, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

MBATL: Okay, fair enough. I don’t know anything about him except what I heard on the news. It may well have been completely out of character for him.

By MBATL

December 31, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Point taken, Grinch, regarding “five innings” … just blogging baseball here.

RJIB, from what I hear, the Rays want STARTING pitching, and top quality at that, for Baldelli. I doubt they’d take Gonzalez for him. Unless they soften their position, I think we look elsewhere for a cf.

I agree that Laroche for Gonzalez alone is questionable, without more pieces. Duffy seems a lot more attractive than Mclouth. And like I said earlier, if we could sweeten the pot a little with Langerhans or Escobar, I’d like to see us pursue McCutchen… but he may be untouchable.

By KC

December 31, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

GRINCH: Good point. But I think the starters will already have the benefit of knowing that with the 8th/9th taken care of, and 2 or 3 very good candidates for the 7th inning role.

By flange1

December 31, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Hi All,

ROBERT

I like your idea about Laroche + something to the Pirates for Gonzalez and Maholm idea, even if it requires throwing in Davies…Maybe Laroache and Davies for Gonzalez Maholm and Duffy??? Then you can keep Maholm or flip him in a deal for Baldelli? DOB would the Rays take Maholm + Escobar or Salty for Baldelli?

By KC

December 31, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Metro Man: The Mets won where the Braves didn’t, because they pitched better. Period. Props to them for that. Especially with Pedro out a good bit of the season. The bullpen was amazing.

Whoever pitches the best out of the Braves, Mets, and Phils will win the division.

“I can’t predict what will happen in 2007 but until the Braves PROVE it, the Mets are the better team.”*

Does that mean that after the Mets made all those big signings/trades prior to last season, you said “that’s great, but until proven otherwise… the Mets still suck.”???

By David O'Brien

December 31, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

KC, you are to be commended for your relentless optimism regarding the Braves.

That said, how many others besides you do you really believe would rank the Braves first out of 16 teams in the NL right this moment?

By KC

December 31, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

DOB: Fair enough. Please answer 3 questions then.

Would you agree that the Braves still have one of the top offenses in baseball?

Do you agree that the bullpen is fixed and should be very solid (not to say another lefty wouldn’t make it even better)?

And finally, what rotation in the NL looks better to you right now?

Again, I think the thing that will allow (or prevent) the Mets or Braves (maybe even the Phils) to rise to the top of the NL will be starting pitching.

I’m not saying that the Braves rotation is assured of topping the league right now, but name a rotation that looks better. Really… WHO? There just aren’t any excellent rotations in the NL right now. Atlanta at least has the potential of fielding a great rotation.

Which teams would you rank above the Braves right now, DOB?

By doug

December 31, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

How about Thorman and McBride for Gonzalez? Braves get the stud lefty and the Pirates get back a good young lefty and the power hitting lefty they seek. Adding McBride may entice the Pirates to do the deal since he is only a minor downgrade from gonzalez and won’t deplete their staff. And best of all we keep Laroche.

And by the way, WAR EAGLE.

By KC

December 31, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

DOB: If you believe as I do that Hampton (after shaking off a little rust) and Hudson will be solid next season… how could you not pick the Braves to top the NL East and perhaps the NL as a whole. If you don’t expect much from them, then you won’t be as bullish on this team as I am.

I understand that not everyone shares my optimism about Hudson and Hampton. I don’t think they’re “locks” to have good seasons. I just think in both cases, that it’s more likely than not that they will be solid next season.

It’s all about Hudson and Hampton.

By MBATL

December 31, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

doh! Doug, you blew a good post with that last line! That deal sounds great to me if the Bucs would go for it.

KC, thanks, re Myers. I know it’s easy to trash guys you don’t know, and natural to defend guys you DO know. Again, no big deal.

Regarding the Mets, really, Pedro was not a factor for them after May last year. He had a great spring (april and May), but didn’t really help them at all from June 1 on. So I think it’s a mistake to make a big deal of his injury for ‘07. If he comes back healthy, that’s a huge midseason addition for them.

An awful lot of “ifs” for this Braves team.

If we find a 2B who can field the position and post a decent OBP;

if Hudson and Hampton pitch to their historical averages;

if Diaz/Thorman/Langerhans can catch the ball in LF and post “corner-outfield” batting numbers ;

if Frenchy can learn to take a walk;

if Chipper can play 130 games or so;

if Laroche is the Laroche of July/August, not of April/May/June …

If most of the answers are ‘yes’ we’ve got a chance to be pretty darn good.

I like the team a lot, but IF things don’t break right, we could be mediocre again.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 31, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you think a three way that would send LaRoche to the Pirates and Gonzales to the Blue Jays for Alex Rios would work? Would the Jays see that as a good move especially since Gonzales would neutralize Ortiz, Giambi, and Matsui.

And, lets be honest. The Braves are not the best team in the NL as currently constructed. I would place the Dodgers, Padres, and Cubs ahead of them right now with the Mets, Phillies, Marlins, Brewers, and maybe even the Cardinals neck and neck with them.

Also, DOB, if you had to rate on a scale of 1 to 10 what are the chances of a trade with the Pirates going through? What about the chances of acquiring Baldelli or someone like Rios? I’m just interested to know what you think?

By TLJ

December 31, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

Metman, I just saw your post from yesterday in which you stated the Braves were on the decline and Mets on the upswing.

I did some research and here is what I discovered. The dictionary defines decline as: “falling, sinking, losing of strength, power, values, growing worse, wasting, downard incline, etc.”

I then reviewed the ages of the core players on each team, you can see the ages below for the 2007 season:

Braves: Met: C - 23 - 35 1B - 27 - 35 2B - ? - 37 SS - 31 - 24 3B - 35 - 24 LF - 27 - 40 CF - 30 - 30 RF - 23 - 33

Bench - 29 - 48

SP - 40 - 40 SP - 34 - 40 SP - 32 - 35 SP - 24 - 26 SP - 23 -25

Set Up - 27 - 27

CL 37 - 35

Based on the definition and the ages of the mets players, I would say it is the mets who are on the decline. Within the next 2 to 3 years the mets will have to replace a cathcer, first baseman, second baseman, left fielder, right fielder, 3 starting pitchers and a closer. In other words you will have to REBUILD. Braves on the other hand never rebuild we just RETOOL.

By the way the reason JS continues to draft local players is because the state has an abundance of excellent players in the state every year. We have a very good amateur program and they do very well on the national level.

P. S. I just heard on XM radio that Pedro advised he would not be ready before July or August.

Have a happy new year.

By The Stranger

December 31, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

The Stranger would like to take this sober moment to wish David O’Brien & all the good citizens of the Braves & Man In Black Blog a safe and happy New Years Eve.

May 2007 bring our team another pennant & our trusty beat writer/music critic yet another Wurlitzer.

By KC

December 31, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

MBATL:

Valid points, but all but one of the “ifs” you brought up were in regard to the Braves’ lineup. But remember, this is the same lineup (except for Giles) that finished only 16 runs behind a team (the Phillies) that plays big time hitter’s park, for the league lead in total runs scored. Turner Field, as you know, is a pitcher’s park. Atlanta also finished 2nd in team batting avg. Bottom line… the Braves were the best offensive team in the NL in 06’.

Given the kind of season that Giles is coming off of, his loss won’t mean much from last season to next. So I don’t think you can really hold up any “questions” regarding this lineup as significant factors. This lineup is not an “IF” for the Braves. It is a major strength… a proven one.

You can be assured that this lineup will score plenty of runs, and finish near the top of the league in runs scored once again.

So it comes back around to the one question you raised outside of the lineup… Hudson and Hampton. Yes, those are valid “Ifs” and those two guys figure to decide the fate of the 07’ season. I think they’ll be fine, and that’s why I’m so optimistic… but we’ll have to wait and see.

By KC

December 31, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

DOB: Who would you rank above Atlanta heading into next season?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 31, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

KC, I think you bring up an excellent point about the offense and its batting average. I was one last year who continuously harped that the offense needed a leadoff hitter and still feel that way if this offense is to be balanced and win those low scoring games that NYM mentioned. He is right about that. However, I think it has to be encouraging to know that this offense hit .270 avg last year while playing half of its games in a pitcher’s park. Not to mention that productivity out of the leadoff spot was less than desirable, Chipper missed a third of the season, Andruw went through about a month long slump, Francoeur could not take a walk to save his life nor exhibit any patience for the first five months of the season, LaRoche had more or less the first two and a half months wasted platooning with a no hitting Brian Jordan, virtually no production from left field until the last two months of the season when Diaz received more regular playing time, and Todd Pratt was allowed in the batter’s box. Despite all of that the Braves stayed near the top of the NL all year on offense. Even through that God awful June.

Mets fans, you guys have a great team and did last season as well. However, ask yourselves this question. Were the Mets really that good or was the NL that bad? When the Mets had to play interleague they didn’t look all that good to be honest. I’m not bashing the Mets. I’m simply posing a question. Teams like the Dodgers, Braves, Phillies, and Padres didn’t play to their capabilities until it was too late. And even then how good were any of those teams? Can you Mets fans honestly sit here and say the Mets were decidedly better than the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, White Sox, Twins, A’s, Angles, or hell even the Blue Jays? Its like with NFL and the NFC. Sure, the Bears look good but how good are they? Are they really any better than the top six or seven teams in the AFC? And,yes, I realize the Cards beat the Tigers in the WS but that is not the question at hand. The Mets are a truly good team but for you Mets fans to act like they are the class of the majors is a bit inane don’t you think? As the Mets are currently constructed, are they really decidely better than the Dodgers, Padres, or evne the Cubs and Phillies. C’mon.

By David O'Brien

December 31, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Robert, how many three-way trades have occurred this winter? The past two winters? There’s a reason _ they’re very difficult to pull off.

In some instances, guys here are proposing trades for players who teams have expressed no interesting in trading.

KC, all I asked you was, how many others besides you _ perhaps I should have said, how many impartial obsevers _ would rate the Braves No. 1 out of 16 NL teams, considering last year’s finish and what they’ve added this winter.

That said, I expect the Braves to have a much better season and compete for the NL East title. But there’s a difference in what I expect, and what COULD happen if Hampton is healthy and Wickman and Smotz stay healthy and Hudson returns to form and blah blah blah _ there’s a difference in that and what most non-partisan observers could reasonably expect to happen.

I’d guess that at least eight NL teams could come up with what seems to be a reasonable scenario in which their team could win the pennant, or at least their own division. And once you get to the playoffs _ well, ask the Cardinals.

I’d just be willing to bet you that, entering the season, few national prognosticators would have the Braves atop their NL power rankings. That’s all I’m saying. Only one I’ve seen so far is Baseball Weekly (for what it’s worth, they have them 8th in the NL and fourth in the NL East, as of right now).

NEW BLOG HAS BEEN POSTED. RON, TOLD YOU I’D WORK ON NEW YEAR’S EVE AND DO ONE, DIDN’T I?

By David O'Brien

December 31, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

or was that Robert I told I’d get another posted? Anyway, it’s posted. (“Who cares we’re watching the falcons,” they say, rolling their eyes).