AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2006 > December > 17 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USLaRoche rumors just won’t stop
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Ah, yes, another 70-degree global-warming December day, another Adam LaRoche trade rumor.
Where there’s this much smoke _ the trade rumors, not the planet _ there’s usually fire, so don’t be too surprised if the Braves first baseman is traded before opening day.
That said, I’ve never put much stock in the three-way rumor that’s made its way through four or five New York papers in the past week, most recently appearing in today’s New York Times.
The proposal, according to an anonymous baseball official, would send LaRoche to the Pirates, lefty closer Mike Gonzalez from Pittsburgh to the Yankees, and 22-year-old outfielder Melky Cabrera from NY to the Braves.
Thing is, this supposed proposal hasn’t been confirmed by either an Atlanta or Pittsburgh official, on or off the record. A Pirates official told a buddy of mine that no such deal was imminent, and he doubted the Braves would do it in that form anyway.
A Braves person I talked to wouldn’t comment on it either way, neither confirm nor deny. But don’t read too much into that _ the Braves are involved in so many discussions this winter, the entire organization has gone into the bunker mentality that John Schuerholz prefers _ no comment, no comment, no comment.
For years, the Yankees have been notorious for leaking information about deals, always anonymous team officials. Sometimes there’s validity, but I’d guess that at least 75 percent of the trade rumors out of New York never come to fruition.
And in this instance, I can’t see the Braves doing this deal without getting something else in return. This isn’t a knock on Cabrera, who would be a great addition for the Braves and could fill a glaring weakness in the leadoff spot.
Of course, this would greatly reduce the playing time of LF Matt Diaz, who would revert to fourth-outfielder status. That or be traded, if the Braves decided they wanted to keep Ryan Langerhans because of his excellent defense, perhaps figuring that Langerhans just had a bad year at the plate in part because of a sore hand that contributed to his early struggles.
(Here’s an idea _ keep LaRoche, hit Aybar leadoff while he plays 2B or 3B most days, or sign a veteran 2B off the scrap heap this spring if Kelly Johnson or one of the other kids doesn’t look up for regular 2B work. Maybe give rookie OF Gregor Blanco at least a look in the leadoff spot this spring; who knows, he has no power but a plus-.400 OBP in the minors last season could be worth considering, long as you keep LaRoche and have such good power at other spots.)
The other rumor making the rounds is a revival of the LaRoche-to-Baltimore talks that nearly culminated in a LaRoche/Marcus Giles for Brian Roberts/Hayden Penn deal at the winter meetings, before O’s owner Peter Angelos quashed it at the last minute when he decided he didn’t want to part with fan favorite 2B Roberts.
Giles, of course, was non-tendered a week later by the Braves and appears likely to sign with San Diego, as was expected as soon as the Braves let him become a free agent. The revived LaRoche/O’s rumor is a straight-up LaRoche-for-Roberts proposal.
While it seems like the Braves would be giving up too much for Roberts, I can see where they’d do this deal and what their rationale would be: They’re more comfortable with Thorman replacing LaRoche at 1B than they are with their 2B/leadoff positions, where they have no proven commodities at either spot. Roberts would fill both of those needs.
His production was down last season (.286, 34 doubles, 10 homers, 55 RBIs, .757 OPS in 131 games) after he returned from arm surgery. Roberts, 29, was an All-Star in 2005 when he hit .314 with 45 doubles, 7 triples, 18 homers, 73 RBIs and a strong .387 OBP and .902 OPS.
He made $3.075 mill last season in his first year of arbitration eligibility, and could see his salary climb to near $5 mill in 2007. So he’d cost nearly $2 mill more than LaRoche next season, and be eligible for free agency after 2008, a year sooner than LaRoche.
Again, if the Braves do it, it’ll be to solve their 2B/leadoff voids at the same time.
Now back to Cabrera. The Yankees switch-hitter came through last year on the big NY stage, filling in for the injury-plagued Yankees OF and batting .280 with 35 extra-base hits (seven homers), 50 RBIs, 12 steals and a .360 OBP in 130 games.
He had comparable stats vs. lefties and righties, and hit .281 with runners on and .305 with runners in scoring position.
Cabrera was especially solid as a leadoff man, batting .333 (25-for-75) with eight extra-base hits, a .405 OBP and a .467 slugging percentage (his overall slugging percentage was .391).
In other words, he’s got a lot of promise, and also could move over to CF if and when Andruw leaves. He’s got a very good arm (he throws left-handed, bats both) and overall sound defensive skills.
That said, LaRoche-for-Cabrera straigt-up isn’t a good trade for Atlanta, in my opinion.
LaRoche is first-time arbitration-eligible. He’ll make $2.5-3 mill and, based on his improvement from his first full season in 2005 (.259-20-78, .775 OPS) to his second full season in 2006 (.285-32-90, .915 OPS), there’s no reason to believe he can’t hit 35-40 homers and drive in 100-110 runs.
He drove in 90 while hitting sixth or lower in the order much of the season, and his performance improved dramatically in late June, exactly when he began playing against left-handers and also when he began taking prescribed medication for attention-deficit disorder (same medication that Craig Biggio, Derek Lowe and others have taken or are taking).
Beginning July 17, LaRoche hit .322 with 17 homers, 43 RBIs, a .388 OBP and a gaudy 1.033 OPS over his final 63 games, with ONE error in that span.
Might LaRoche regress and lose some trade value? Sure. But the same could be said for any young players. The point is, there’s little in his performance to suggest he will.
And as much as Cabrera would fill a need atop the order and potentially in CF beyond next season, the Braves should be able to get something else, in addition to Cabrera, for a guy (LaRoche) who ranked 10th in the NL in OPS last season.
They were asking for setup man Scott Proctor and Cabrera earlier, and now they’re going to settle for Cabrera? No. That doesn’t compute.
An argument could be made that the Braves would be better off trading LaRoche straight-up to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez, who converted 24 of 24 saves and would give them more security in their bullpen and, along with recently acquired power arm Rafael Soriano, afford the Braves two closers-in-waiting to set up Bob Wickman next year and spell him when necessary.
But I wouldn’t do that deal, either. Again, I think they should get more in return for LaRoche, who got a lot of Gold Glove votes for his defense, and whose tape-measure homers aren’t the result of huge muscles _ no steroid suspicions there, if you’ve ever seen him up close _ but rather an astoundingly quick bat (according to Bobby Cox and Terry Pendleton _ that springs out from an unlikely, impossibly quiet stance.
Anyway … sure, trade him if you can use it to fill needs. But that’s plural _ needs. As in, perhaps, Chone Figgins, Casey Kotchman and a pitcher from the Angels.
But even if it were just Figgins and Kotchman, at least you’d be getting an extremely versatile player (Figgins) under contract an an affordable rate for two more years, who can play second base and bat leadoff next year, or play 4-5 different positions and bat leadoff if one of the kids is ready for 2B).
And you’d get Kotchman, who was a highly touted prospect before his mono and lingering effects forced him to miss most of last season. He’s a line-drive gap hitter and would give you some insurance at 1B if the Braves replace LaRoche with Scott Thorman.
Thorman, 25, plays hard at all times and has natural power, but he’s just a serviceable defensive player and Cox plans to use him a lot in LF in 2007 if LaRoche is back.
Thorman hit more than 16 homers only once in five minor league seasons (21 was his high) and batted .234 with five homers and 14 RBIs in 128 at-bats last season as a Braves rookie. In his last 33 games for Atlanta, he hit .209 (14-for-67) with one homer, four RBIs, two walks and 15 strikeouts.
He’s still raw, and would be a significant dropoff from LaRoche in every respect, at least for his first season. No question about that. But if the Braves also had Kotchman, between the two of them they’d at least have some insurance.
Again, trading LaRoche, after already losing Giles, isn’t something I’d do without filling a couple of needs with what you get in return. And while the Braves scored more than enough runs and had more than enough power last season, without LaRoche and Giles you’d be counting heavily on Francoeur, McCann and possibly the 22-year-old Cabrera to avoid any setbacks and produce like veterans.
That is, unless you believe Chipper can stay healthy for 150 games and Thorman will make huge progress in his first full season, and one of rookies or converted outfielder Kelly Johnson will shine at second base….
OK, enough about that trade rumor, for now at least.
Couple other things.
Listening to the great Tom Waits (new three-CD set “Orphans” is spectactular) while glancing through the information-filled Bill James Handbook _ and if you guys want to buy ONE baseball reference book, this is definitely the one.
It’s always fun to peruse his projections for hitters and pitchers for the following season, however the stats maven James _ and my former Univ. of Kansas professor, of Baseball Literature (though technically I only monitored the class for a couple weeks before realizing no opening was going to come up and I wasn’t going to get credit if I kept attending, so I left) _ comes up with the numbers.
(What a terrible run-on sentence that was. No time to clean it up. Gotta hop on the Triumph, day’s getting away from me.)
Last season, for instance, James projected that Andruw Jones would hit .269 with 32 doubles, 42 homers, 113 RBIs and 126 strikeouts.
Andruw’s’s actual numbers: .262 with 29 doubles, 41 homers, 129 RBIs and 127 K. Not bad.
James projected that Rafael Furcal would hit .285 with 32 doubles, 13 homers, 58 RBIs and 37 steals. He hit .300 with 32 doubles, 15 HRs, 63 RBIs, 37 steals.
But he also misses badly on some guys, of course. So don’t get too caught up in it.
Anyway, here’s a few 2007 projections I thought you might be interested in.
SOME PITCHERS:
_ Tim Hudson: 15-10, 3.75 ERA, 147 K in 223 innings.
_ John Smoltz: 18-7, 3.17 ERA, 200 K in 227 innings.
_ Mike Hampton: 7-7, 4.50 ERA, 71 K in 130 innings.
_ Chuck James: 13-7, 3.53 ERA, 164 K in 186 innings.
_ Horacio Ramirez: 7-7, 4.53 ERA, 63 K in 133 innings.
_ Kyle Davies: 3-4, 4.86 ERA, 51 K and 33 walks in 63 innings.
_ Bob Wickman: 4-3, 3.77 ERA, 41 saves, 50 K in 62 innings.
AND SOME HITTERS:
_ Francoeur: .276 avg. w/ 34 doubles, 31 HRs, 111 RBIs, 27 walks, 123 K, .314 OBP, .803 OPS.
_ McCann: .315 with 33 doubles, 23 HRs, 87 RBIs, .383 OBP, .928 OPS (Damn!).
_ LaRoche: .281 with 39 doubles, 29 HRs, 89 RBIs, .353 OBP, .883 OPS.
_ Andruw: .264 with 32 doubles, 40 HRs, 115 RBIs, 131 K, .355 OBP, .882 OPS.
_ Chipper: 133 games, .293 with 30 doubles, 27 HRs, 90 RBIs, .398 OBP, .925 OPS.
_ M. Giles: .281 with 35 doubles, 15 HRs, 95 runs, 66 RBIs, .351 OBP, .797 OPS.
_ M. Diaz: 110 games, .316 with 25 doubles, 10 HRs, 49 RBIs, .355 OBP, .846 OPS
_ C. Figgins: .281, 25 doubles, 8 HRs, 60 RBIs, .348 OBP, .739 OPS.
_ Me. Cabrera: 130 games, .285, 24 doubles, 10 homers, 69 runs, 60 RBIs, .351 OBP, .762 OPS.
_ Baldelli: 123 games, .306, 29 doubles, 5 triples, 16 homers, 68 RBIs, .348 OBP, .883 OPS.
_ C. Crawford: .300, 26 doubles, 14 triples, 15 HRs, 55 stolen bases, 100 runs, 76 RBIs, .339 OBP, .795 OPS.
(Maybe the Braves should go after this Crawford dude … Inside joke here among Braves/Man in Black blog denizens. I couldn’t resist).
Comments
By Paul
December 17, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Living in queens, I’ve had a chance to see Cabrera play. He is a great defensive LF in a tough park and has a cannon for an arm. He is young and is only going to get better. With that being said, dealing Adam and only getting Cabrera back is not enough. Hey DOB, besides the Clash, do you like any of the new punk bands? (Rancid, Blink) My Chemical Romance isn’t too bad.
You kidding me, I am Queens Boulevard.
By Ken Stallings
December 17, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
Can’t keep a scoop on you long! LOL!!
I do not like this trade and I am glad to see it appears an empty rumor. Cabrera’s OBA is actually only .380 overall. Playing it out for when he bats leadoff is a bit specious.
LaRoche is a far better hitter and his defense has improved. I do not like any trade for LaRoche and frankly do not understand why the Braves seem eager to trade him. Money is the only reason, but even that reason is weak. If Atlanta truly cannot afford a 40 HR first baseman at around 1-2 million dollars a year, then we might as well fold the team right now!
By Sick and Tired
December 17, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
I think that unless the Braves can acquire Baldelli (for a reasonable price) or some promising pitching, they shouldn’t make ANYmore trades. I think we’ve got as good a shot with the team we currently have as we would have by trading for marginal talents such as Milky Cabrera, Brian Roberts or Figgins (which could potentially make us much worse and more vulnerable).
By Sick and Tired
December 17, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
If there’s any doubt as to what we should be getting in return for LaRoche, just imagine if he were playing for the D-Rays…they would want Cabrera, Cano and Wang in return. We should NOT sell ourselves short just for the sake of doing something.
By Pinball
December 17, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
We need more than Melky in that trade scenario. I like the Angels deal much better and getting Crawford or Baldelli would be the best. We need a leadoff-on base type guy. The offense could use the speed with some of the plodders we have now.
By rayray
December 17, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
What have you heard about the most recent rumor that has LaRoche going to Baltimore for Brian Roberts? I know you did not like the original deal involving Giles and Penn. I feel like we would have to get more in this deal as well.
By TDub
December 17, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
I just saw that Alex Rios was on the market. Man, I like him a lot - he would look pretty sweet in LF…
By JasonInMaine
December 17, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
From the Post-Gazette that also seems to think the 3-way deal that has been talked about makes no sense from the Braves’ perspective:
The New York Times is reporting today that the Yankees, Pirates and Braves are discussing a three-team trade — the third New York outlet to do so — but officials with the Pirates and Atlanta will not confirm any such thing. The framework of the deal described in the Times — Mike Gonzalez to the Yankees, Adam LaRoche to the Pirates and Melky Cabrera to the Braves — looks plenty flawed from the Atlanta perspective.
There is, however, a sentiment within the Pirates’ offices that LaRoche can be had in a more conventional trade, though Gonzalez would not be enough.
Regards,
Jason
By JasonInMaine
December 17, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
And, one more from the NY Daily News:
The Yankees, however, have a history of being unable to deal with Pirates GM Dave Littlefield, and talks about a three-team trade - which would send the lefthander to the Yankees, Braves first baseman Adam LaRoche to the Pirates and Yankee outfielder Melky Cabrera to the Braves - have cooled.
The teams have not had any contact for the last few days, according to sources close to the discussions, although they may resume talks next week.
Littlefield is seeking a lefthanded bat for Gonzalez, who is his prized trading chip, but the Braves, who solidified their own bullpen last week with the acquisition of righthander Rafael Soriano from the Seattle Mariners, are now said to be more focused on acquiring an outfielder who would replace center fielder Andruw Jones, who is entering the final year of his contract.
This is why the Braves should get Gonzalez and a pitching prospect for LaRoche. They then should put on the full-court press to get Baldelli either by trading the piece they get from the Pirates or Davies. Baldelli, in this market, is an absolute steal. They need to get him, IMHO.
Regards,
Jason
Regards,
Jason
By Shaun
December 17, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
Regarding Gregor Blanco, it looks like he may develop enough power as he matures more. And aren’t Myrtle Beach and Mississippi great pitcher’s parks? Blanco may have enough other tools (OBP and speed) that cover up his power deficiencies.
By Shaun
December 17, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves are better off with LaRoche and Diaz/Langerhans than Thorman and Melky Cabrera.
By Bruce
December 17, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave,
Selective Stats and in the Braves pocket? NO, I don’t believe that; I just had that thought recalling when you were recently accused of that and got a good laugh and hope you will too, when you read this.
To me you seem balanced, enlightened, realistic and hopeful. This is just what I want to read; especially contrasted with the most recent AJC sports editorialists’ perspective of the Braves last week. They seemed willing to cut open a wound and then proclaim with audacity that the wound was bleeding.
Great column… it really helps to keep us going until the next move by the Braves. Thank you! Bruce
By Shaun
December 17, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
Another thing about the rumor: Why would the Pirates want LaRoche over Cabrera? Wouldn’t they want to keep it simply and just trade Gonzalez for Cabrera? And LaRoche is obviously a great player, but it’s the Pirates. Seems like they would want the younger guy.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
Paul, I answered your punk-band question at end of other blog, just in case you missed it.
Shaun, agreed on Blanco, though he was Richmond and Ol’ Double-A MIss last year, not Myrtle. Was at Myrtle in 2003-04, where he hit .271 with 7 triples and 5 homers in his first season, and .266 with 9 triples and 8 homers in his second (‘04).
Slipped to .252 avg at Mississipp in 2005, but with 12 triples and 6 homers. Then last season really raised his average, to .287 at Miss and .294 at Richmond.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Shaun, so do I (think that). Bruce, thanks.
OK, gotta get outside. I’ll check back later. Peace
By MBATL
December 17, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
DOB, I really don’t agree at all with your views on what we should/should not get for Laroche, but of course you’re closer to it and I respect your views.
Thorman hit 21 HR in 133 games at AAA Richmond over the last 2 years, and 5 in 128 AB’s for ATL, which works out to about 20, and that’s playing on an inconsistent basis. He’s not had a single big year because he keeps getting moved up midseason.
I’m not saying ‘dump Laroche,’ - God, I was a Laroche defender last year through the worst of it - but I think Thorman has similar pop in his bat.
I’d rather have Cabrera - great future, low cost - than Figgins - probably done about all he’s gonna do in the bigs - and play Russian roullette at 2B if we have to.
And I think Gonzalez alone would be a huge addition.
All that said, I do agree with your idea that we should maybe just keep Laroche, and try to pursue Baldelli (anything up with that?).
Thanks for the new blog.
By berigan
December 17, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
DOB, man that’s a long start to the blog! Not complaining mind you…bet you didn’t think after the season ended you’d have to/want to write this much about the braves in mid December, eh??? If John Lennon were alive today, he’d write a song called HAPPINESS IS A FAST BLOG
By Mitchie-san
December 17, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
I still say Gonzales and Baldelli will be perfect for the team.
By berigan
December 17, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
Posted this on the other blog, but since that one is even slower than stinkey, I thought I’d repost it on this nice, quick blog…
Lew, I’m with you on LaRoache for Gonzalez. Like you said, then many games are 5-6 inning affairs. You can never have too many good bullpen arms! Plus, if Wickman or Soriano gets hurt, a lot of pressure on the rest of the bullpen. People forget, but Wicky is old for a closer.(He’ll be 38 come Feb.) If you look at his numbers in Cleveland, they learned not to overuse him. In fact, go to www.baseball-reference.com and look at how few games he has been in that past few seasons. Or the number of innings he pitches in a season(Looks like he never goes 2 innings) Oh, and that rumored trade with Baltimore??? If somehow LaRoche goes for Brian Roberts, we need to have J.S. committed!!!
By Chop Chop
December 17, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
DOB, I agree with you about this Crawford fellow. He seems like he would be a good fit for the Braves. I wish some bloggers would offer their opinions about Mr. Crawford. I haven’t read much about him here during the last, oh, eight months.
By berigan
December 17, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
Mitchie-san, I am all for you being the GM! Baldelli would give us a leadoff hitter with some pop, and is an excellent defender. And Gonzales would give us a closer on the days Wickywhack(I REALLY want Bobby to call him that)can’t go. I like Thorman. Even though he looked aggressive at the plate, he already has more patience than most of the younger guys(McCann excluded) I think like LaRoche he needs to play everyday to show what he can do.
By Troy
December 17, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
Nice Update DOB- Bill James is pretty generous with his Matt Diaz projection huh?
By berigan
December 17, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
DOB, by any chance, do you know what the discount is at Tower now? There phone has been disconnected for a few days now….
By Troy
December 17, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
DOB- I am assuming that Damn! for McCann is a good Damn right? He should be considered the BEST catcher in the Majors however if he hits mostly 5th I would expect more like 100+ RBIs
By Troy
December 17, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
I wonder if Bill James is projecting injury problems for Hampton?
By Mitchie-san
December 17, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
Well thank you berigan. If those two happen, I will dance all the way from Japan to The Ted.
By Billy (TBFnB)
December 17, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
Hey, blog….slow news day….everyone hear about JD Drew?
By Lew
December 17, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
Jason In Maine-On the other blog you asked for my opinion of the Baldelli deal. I go along with Berigan and Mitchie-san. I think the Braves should make two deals and then defy the Mets to beat them. First, I think we need Gonzalez more than LaRoche, for reason s I’ve stated several times and I don’t need to go into again-suffice it to say that it has to do with 5 inning games. I would like to get more in the deal, though. The other deal would be for Baldelli. First of all our starting staff is deeper than most give it credit for. Davies may or may not become Don Drysdale incarnate, but Cormier and Villarreal are ready NOW. Matt Harrison is maybe ready by August, almost definitely by next season. For that matter, in a pinch, Soriano could spot start, or maybe Sturtze. Salty will likely not play in Atlanta with McCann and Brayan Pena (who is an EXCELLENT catching prospect, capable of hitting and defense). Escobar is not going to be allowed to play second and as long as we have Renteria, wil not play SS. By the time Edgar leaves, Elvis Andrus will be ready-at age 20. If the Rays will take Davies (James should go nowhere), I say pull the trigger. Baldelli is ready to breakout. I think his injuries are behind him and even if he is banged up, he costs hardly anything, as his salaries are tied to performance-if he doesn’t play, the salary remains low. If he stays healthy, he’s still only costing $29 over 5 years-IF we decide to exercise the options on the last three years. Also, keep in mind that Baldelli’s agent was Boras and he fired him, cause he and his family didn’t like him. He negotiated this insanely cheap contract because he felt bad for missing all that time. This is the type of guy we need. Honest, cheap, lots of upside, able to step in for Andruw, and we control him for ages. Gotta do it, but NOT with James.
By berigan
December 17, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
Billy, yep! Wonder if the sox will get out of the signing? Wonder if Boras and the other Drew could be convinced the Red Sox could make their day??? Lots of money would be freed up if they don’t sign him. And that poor, poor agent could really use a big payday if J.D. has a truly bum shoulder. And V. Wells has just set the bar….
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
In a perfect world, I would like to see LaRoche stay. I like him and think he is an excellent player. When 90% of the folks on here were ripping him last year, I kept saying that if he played everyday (like he thought he was going to going into spring training) he would play better. Well, after he got the everyday nod in June thanks to Jordan’s injury he did exactly that. Think about this. If it had not been for Jordan taking away his playing time that first two and a half months, LaRoche would have probably hit 37 or 38 HR and drove in over 100 RBI.
The fact is this is a very complex situation for the Braves. In order to keep LaRoche, I say platoon Johnson and Aybar at 2nd unless Johnson is so bad defenisvely that he is a detriment to the team. Give Diaz a nod in LF but he has to be platooned. I don’t think Diaz can play everyday and be productive. I agree with DOB about giving Blanco a look as well as Bohn. I suggested this last night on the other blog. See how it goes. If it appears that this is a fisasco in the making, then look to make a deal.
Another option is to go after Tony Graffanino. I would think he could be had for $2 to $2.5 million. He isn’t a basestealer by any means but he handles the bat well. It is just a suggestion.
The Braves could also approach the Blue Jays about Alex Rios. They need starters in the worse way. They have two glaring holes in their rotation. If the Braves offer Davies or Cormier along with Langerhans or Diaz, they might bite. Signing Vernon Wells was nice and all but it didn’t solve their pitching problems, which they did nothing about at the winter meetings.
Of course, the Baldelli thing is still out there but the Devil Rays are just being plain ridiculous. They don’t want to get rid of Baldelli because they will never find a team who will give them TWO major league starters. That is insane. For the life of me I can’t figure out why they won’t take the Braves’ deal. The Braves would be the ones giving up too much but it would be a necessary evil to do it. But, then again, that is why the Devil Rays have finished last all but one year of their existence and why Lou Pinella said that the orginization was not committed to winning. They forced him out the door citing what Pinella had said was a lie. Well, right now it sure doesn’t look like to me Pinella was lying.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
I say take Escobar off the table and offer the Rays Devine, Davies, and Salty. If they whine about Escobar put him in and take Salty off the table. I realize Devine could be gold someday but he isn’t right now and the Braves have some depth in relievers. The Rays would be crazy to say no to such a deal. But, the Braves should also ask for Greg Norton.
By Mitchie-san
December 17, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
HAHAHA! I hate to wish anything bad on anyone, but that J.D. Drew thing is some kind of sweet justice. Greed, it’ll get ya.
By AdirondackDave
December 17, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
DOB — I think your comments on the rumors are right one target and thanks for this and all the other past and (hopefully) future blogs. But before I add my two cents about the trade specifics…
If Bill James numbers for the current Braves were actually to happpen, we should be in clover for ‘07. And unless Hampton does a near total breakdown, his numbers should be much better than the James projection. So you could make a strong argument for standing pat as far as the line-up is concerned.
However, there are other factors at play here, especially the prospect of AJ’s final year here. If we do a LaRoche deal, and I think Gonzales plus Castillo or a solid prospect is prefered because it immediately improves our starters, then it becomes even more important to close in on a Baldelli deal. What scares me big-time is losing LaRoche this year and then AJ next year without getting another proven power bat. That would put just too much pressure on the pitchers every day, day in and day out.
I’m comfortable with standing pat on the position players BUT if we do the LaRoche/Gonzales deal, we need to move on Baldelli and now that I think about it, because of Baldelli’s contract, we should move on him sooner rather than later, independent of other prospective deals.
By JasonInMaine
December 17, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Couldn’t agree more. If we can get Gonzalez and Baldelli without giving up James, we are better both this year and have options in future years.
Regards,
Jason
By Troy
December 17, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this
DOB- just curious did Bill James give a projection for Ryan Langerhans if so could yougive it to us?
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this
THIS ONE’S NOT ME.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 16, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
DOB is supposed to be taking a few days off—he has exhausted himself discussing the one trade the Braves have made this off-season, when they were supposed to be making their pitching staff top priority once again—so DOB says there is no need at the moment for a much faster loading blog since no more movement is expected from the Braves—DOB says maybe he will start a new blog next week for y’all, Oh, the Consideration!…but DOB, since when has this blog been limited to just “baseball” talk??…
Now, baseball, as most of you stalwart Braves fans should already know from your past experience of observing Mr. Schuerholz operate in the off-season, you should know that there isn’t going to be any more movement as to free agents or trades for ‘07—Soriano was it!—Mr. Schuerholz is standing pat, and the ‘07 Braves are once again set to continue their run of disgraceful, losing seasons…
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this
THIS ONE’S NOT ME.
By TheSouthernJagAss
December 16, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
MetroMan—Your post makes perfect sense—Andruw Jones has been a lazy-a$s player in Atlanta under the tutelage of Bobby “Sticky Fingers” Cox—but after ‘07 when Andruw leaves for another team, he may have a more demanding manager to play for thus bringing out more of his potential as a player—Thankyouverymuch!
By Paul
December 17, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this
Interesting numbers on Hampton. (McCann’s were off the chart) I wonder whats wrong with JD Drew. Can’t say that I feel sorry for him. Hey Dave, how was JD in the clubhouse. Did you get along with him? I can’t see the Braves dealing Laroche for Cabrera. WFAN 660 in New York is saying those talks have died.
By MLB
December 17, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this
Great discussion on the trade rumors Dave O’Brien. I’ve been looking forward to seeing what the AJC had to say about it.
While I agree that it would be better for the Braves to also get Proctor in this deal, I think most Braves fans are under-estimating Melky Cabrera’s potential.
Talk to any New York Yankees fan, and they’ll tell you that Melky is an up-and-coming superstar.
It works out perfect for the Braves – they get a lead-off hitter - who can take over center if Andruw leaves after 2007.
I have to disagree with you Dave on the trade with the Angels. Just because there’s more players involved doesn’t make it a better deal.
Chone Figgens seems alright, but I don’t see the superstar potential you’d have with Melky. Casey Kotchman doesn’t impress me that much – plus he had mono – when you’re in baseball you need to watch your actions on and off the field.
I’d say if the Braves have the chance to get Melky… they should go for it. It’s not very often you have the opportunity to get a player of his caliber.
By Bobo
December 17, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this
IDUB- couldn’t agree with you more. I have been saying for a month the Braves need to talk to Blue Jays about ALEX RIOS 302 aver. 17 hrs 82 rbi 15 sb.Young,cheap could take AJ place next year. Trade Hudson for Alex and one of the young pitchers. Charcin, Marcum,or League. If they would take Hudson?
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this
THIS ONE’S NOT ME.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 16, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
And to add a couple more points to Robert(Justice Is The Best)’s fine post—maybe Andruw’s knees wouldn’t be bothering him so much if he took some of that weight off of them…although, Andruw probably doesn’t have any more discipline with his physical conditioning than he does at the plate!…
By voice of dissent
December 17, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this
Fact number one. The braves need more pitching , particularly another proven starter. Laroche and Davies to the Angels who have shown some interest in Laroche. Trade them for Ervin Santana and Erick Aybar(willys little brother). Aybar has eye popping numbers during his minor league career and Santana would be an upgrade over Davies , not to mention he comes dirt cheap and would solidify the Braves starting five. This trade would benefit both the Braves and Angels. Make Thorman your starter at first and shift Erick Aybar from ss to 2b and Aybar could be your leadoff man. This Gregor Blanco kid is a real sleeper . He is a pure leadoff hitter with speed , a great arm and he is solid defensively. I checked his current winter league numbers in Venezuela and he is hitting .315 . I realize that projecting three rookies into the lineup is risky but the braves dont exactly have much choice with their salary cap. Anybody have another trade idea that would help the Braves and keep them under their 80 million budget ?
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this
By TheSouthernJackAss NOT ME EITHER.
December 16, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
What’s wrong there journalist jimmy—someone insult one of your alter-egos??…so grace everyone here with a list of your credentials as to “journalist”, then we can go from there—monkey boy!…
By JC FROM UT
December 17, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
I’ve read that Boston is also interested in Gonzales so here is my proposed 3-way deal. Boston gets Gonzales Pitt gets LaRoache Atlanta gets Kevin Youkalis and either Greg Breslow from Boston or Tom Gorzalany from Pitt.
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
THIS ONE’S NOT ME.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 16, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this
journalist jimmy/stinky/whatever—I see you have no credentials as a journalist—but it’s clear that you’re a pesky, little pecker-gnat!!!…so who will you return to the blog as next, journalist pesky pecker-gnat/stinky/whatever…you go girl!…and Lew, well there’s nothing favorable to say about your retarded ol’ a$s!…
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this
THIS ONE’S NOT ME. I DID SHARE THE SENTIMENT.
By Stinky
December 16, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this
KC I don’t think there is anyone left in the free world that hasn’t seen that ignorant post of your! Enough already, it isn’t clever or funny…
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this
I DIDN’T POST THIS ONE EITHER.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 16, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this
Guys, I just want to apologize for being such an idiot. I know my stupidity has has probably gotten in the way of other’s enjoyment of this blog. The truth is, I have no life, no girlfriend, no job, and no class. I live in my parents’ basement, and look at naughty sites all day when I’m not in here bugging the hell out of all of you. I’m sorry.
By AdirondackDave
December 17, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
DOB — I think your comments on the rumors are right one target and thanks for this and all the other past and (hopefully) future blogs. But before I add my two cents about the trade specifics…
If Bill James numbers for the current Braves were actually to happpen, we should be in clover for ‘07. And unless Hampton does a near total breakdown, his numbers should be much better than the James projection. So you could make a strong argument for standing pat as far as the line-up is concerned.
However, there are other factors at play here, especially the prospect of AJ’s final year here. If we do a LaRoche deal, and I think Gonzales plus Castillo or a solid prospect is prefered because it immediately improves our starters, then it becomes even more important to close in on a Baldelli deal. What scares me big-time is losing LaRoche this year and then AJ next year without getting another proven power bat. That would put just too much pressure on the pitchers every day, day in and day out.
I’m comfortable with standing pat on the position players BUT if we do the LaRoche/Gonzales deal, we need to move on Baldelli and now that I think about it, because of Baldelli’s contract, we should move on him sooner rather than later, independent of other prospective deals.
By JC FROM UT
December 17, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
DOB: I asked this question on the last blog but I’m going to ask again. Would you send Langerhans to the Cubs to be their everyday centerfielder for either Neal Cotts, Scott Eyer, or Will Ohman? Or are the Braves reluctant to move Langerhans bcause he would take over the starting job if/when AJ is gone?
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this
NOT MY POST.
By John Rocker
December 16, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this
Proceeds from my new book will go to buy TheSouthernJackAss a date, and maybe a couple of friends. So please buy my book. It’s for a worthy cause!!!
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this
NOT ME.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 16, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this
…and do you know what is even more ridiculous than me here “by myself blogging away”???….Well, it’s all you ignorant A$sclowns that are here “reading it”…
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this
NOT ME.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 16, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
To the last JackAss impersonator—when using the noun “parents” in the context with which you did, being preceded by the possessive pronoun “my”, which is specific rather than general in nature, the puncuation mark should have proceeded the “t” rather than the “s” in the noun “parents”…
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
Berigan, Tower discount was 60-80 percent when I was there Saturday, and there were a LOT of people in there buying up product. But still quite a few good CDs left, and some going for $1. I got the new Shooter Jennings CD for $1. Amazing. I could probably take it and sell it back to a used CD place for $4-5, but I like it so I won’t.
Only two more days left (Monday-Tuesday) I believe before they close their doors.
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this
NOT ME EITHER.
By John Rocker
December 16, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
ernesto: LOL! Have you really been searching for the GDP of Curacao? There are many nations in the world which Walmart could buy.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this
Troy, Bill James’ projection on Langy:
117 games, 308 at-bast, .260 with 20 doubles, 9 homers, 37 RBIs, .356 OBP, .781.
It’s really next to impossible, I think, to project non-regulars, since he has no idea if the guy’s going to play much, get traded, etc.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this
Paul, J.D. was fine in the clubhosue, a bit unusual _ well, very _ in that he kept quiet, read a book at his locker just about every day while others were playing cards, etc. But couldn’t have been any nicer. Only thing that rubbed some guys a bit wrong was not playing when he had some nicks early on, but once Chipper and others called him out sometime in May or June, I believe it was, he played every day the rest of the year and had his best season.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
JC, regarding Langerhans, why would the Cubs pursue him to be their every-day CF, based on what he’s done, especially last year? No way, no how. Maybe as a fourth OF, but until he has a big year or becomes more consistent offensively, teams aren’t offering much in trade for Langerhans, despite his excellent defense (and it really is excellent, in every way).
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this
small tinkering not needed what the team needs is a jolt!!!!!!!!! I would still call JON DANIELS, see what he says anyway,deal Huddy,LaRoche,Langy,and Davies to get Teixeira,Kinsler,Feldman,and R.Tejada,then deal Andruw for Kotchman AND Santana. Moreno will throw in the money and L.A.is warm BETCHA BORA$$ WOULD SAY JUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this
I say Kotchman because he is another tradeable piece.to Pitt perhaps with another player for Gonzales? what do you think D.O.B.?????
By Bruce
December 17, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this
Dave, I really like your proposal in the article which starts…”(Here’s an idea _ keep LaRoche, hit Aybar leadoff while he plays 2B or 3B most days,…)
If we also add that all starting pitchers acquire or refine excellent sacrifice bunting skills during spring training so that they hit into as few double plays as possible and advance runners, then Aybar will be in more RBI situations than lead-off in most games because of our strong hitting down at the bottom of the order.
It is awesome that we have so many who can hit in the 5th or 6th slot and they end up hitting 7 or 8, no real weakness there. So if our starting pitchers do not hit into DPs then Aybar gets lots of RBI in the lead-off slot after the first inning.
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this
I really like this kid Kinsler and he could bat lead off and it doesn’t hurt that the Rangers are hurting for a starter.
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
this deal protects the braves in the four hole and gives the rangers what they want with the flexibility to go after Zito!
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
Ilike this proposed trade b/c it does two things, it gives the Braves protection in the four hole,and gives theRangers what they want in a proven starter as well as the flexibility to sign Zito!!!1
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this
sorry about the double post my computer hung up>
By Troy
December 17, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the Langy Info DOB I was just curious
By Troy
December 17, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this
DOB Do you know anything about Jerome Williams the 25 year old SP non-tendered by OAK, what might Bill James have to say about him?
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this
here is what the team would look like if they happened to do cabrera as well. lf Cabrera ss Renteria 3b Jones 1b Teixiera c McCann rf Francouer 2b Kinsler cf Johnson
By Maurice
December 17, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this
This is my second time writing this. The Braves should pursue Crawford. He fills LF and lead-off. The Rays would take 3 solid prospects. The Braves could toss in Langerhans to fill Tampa Bays vacated LF spot after dealing Crawford. I can’t see why they wouldn’t discuss this deal.
By Greg in TN
December 17, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this
Evening folks…
Great blog DOB. If Bill James is in the neighborhood with many of his projections, I’ll sleep much better during the summer of 2007. Here’s hoping.
As much as I’d like to get Santana from the LA Angels of Anaheim, Southern California and the Pacific time zone, DOB and others have said that they are adamant that Santana is not being considered.
The threeway trade is wishful thinking for the NY papers in it’s suggested form. Nothing against Cabrera (like I would have anything at all against someone with that last name), but I think we need a little something else in return.
As much as I like Alex Rios, there’s no way we can make a deal with JP Riccardi. Their need is starting pitching more than anything and I don’t see JS willing to make any further changes that would result in subtraction to the pitching staff.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 17, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this
Well, an early Christmas present for all, I will never make another post on any AJC blog. I started out by just trying to have a little fun with people, then certain people that enjoyed dishing it out, but couldn’t take it, started getting all delicate and offended. Then the imposters started pretending to be somebody that they weren’t.
Now I have been pretty raw and colorful with most of my comments, but the thing that irks me most is that I wasn’t the only person making those types of statements. A few “pet” bloggers could say absolutely anything to anyone without reproof.
So, considering that I will make no more comments here, my one request to David O’Brien, if he were to be so kind, would be to advise those in his blogs, that those imposters and troublemakers who continue to pretend to be me, in fact are not, by checking their respective IP addresses. I in return, will stay away for good, and I do apologize to everyone that I did offend.
By Don
December 17, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this
Well, the Braves were embarrassed by the Yankees in 1996 and in 1999. Why not one more time? When was the last time that the Yankees gave up anything of real value in a trade? Cabrera? Sounds like a Schuerholz, et als. type of player. Cheap for the payroll.
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
Maurice, Tampa is not going to deal Crawford PERIOD D.OB. and the rest of the free world already know this. if they were E SANATANA would be in Tampa right now.I know my deal seem out of reach but at least it is a possible scenario.
By Dale Murphy's Oil Soap
December 17, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I also heard a rumor about Brian Roberts for LaRoche straight up. Just curious, would you do that?
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this
and while being politically incorrect i agree with SJA
By joe brave
December 17, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this
Now a small defense of SJA look it up in the Bible God don’t like homo’s queers or whatever else you want to call them either.So really I don’t understand the beef!!!!!
By kevin
December 17, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this
On the subject of music, has anyone seen the Raconteurs play live??? I had the chance to do that last weekend and they were AMAZING! Their rendition of “Bang Bang” (originally by Nancy Sinatra) was beyond what words can describe!
On another note, I still think considering to trade LaRoche is pretty dumb—considering his low pricetag and darn good production numbers…but I’m not the GM.
By David-ATL14
December 17, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this
DOB any further rumblings about the Announcers and their comings and goings?
By KC
December 17, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
Here are my predictions for all of the known Braves regulars (and Horacio):
• Tim Hudson: 17-10, 3.45 ERA
• John Smotlz: 19-8, 3.40 ERA
• Mike Hampton: 14-9, 3.69 ERA
• Chuck James: 15-8, 3.65
• Horacio Ramirez (*assuming 30 starts): 14-9, 3.85 ERA
• Kyle Davies: 7-7, 4.40 ERA
• Bob Wickman: 4-3, 2.98 ERA, 42 saves in 48 opportunities.
• Rafael Soriano: 5-3, 2.75 ERA, 27 holds.
• Tyler Yates: 3-3, 3.25 ERA
• Macay McBride: 2-3, 3.10 ERA (lefties will hit under .200 against)
HITTERS…
• Francoeur: .272 avg., 33 HRs, 113 RBI, 29 doubles, .310 OPB
• McCann: .317 avg., 28 HRs, 98 RBI, 35 doubles, .390 OBP
• LaRoche: .286 avg., 34 HRs, 102 RBI, 38 doubles, .357 OBP
• Andruw: .273 avg., 45 HR, 117 RBI, 34 doubles, .350 OBP (it’s a “walk” season… which probably means big numbers)
• Chipper: (135 games) .308, 34 doubles, 28 HR, 94 RBI, .393 OBP
• Renteria: .289 avg., 38 doubles, 15 HR, 64 RBI, .360 OBP
By KC
December 17, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this
There’s no way the Braves trade LaRoche for Roberts straight up. No way. None.
The Braves were rumored to have been willing to send LaRoche and Giles to Baltimore for Roberts and a top pitching prospect.
We know now, that to give up Giles was essentially to give up nothing, since apparently there were no real offers for him anyway. That means the offer the Braves had on the table was LaRoche for Roberts and a top pitching prospect. That doesn’t sound like a bad deal. But LaRoche for Roberts, straight up???
Look, a speedy leadoff hitter and a power hitter are apples and oranges. I’m perfectly willing to accept that a good leadoff man can really help put runs on the board. But while Roberts is a good leadoff man, but he’s not going to get on base enough, steal enough bases and wreak enough havoc to equal the overall production the Braves will get out of LaRoche.
That trade wouldn’t make sense, and the Braves aren’t about to do it. Now, if Baltimore wants to revisit the possibility of packaging a good young arm with Roberts to get LaRoche… the Braves might be all ears. But the straight up thing ain’t happnin’.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this
I just read about Drew on mlbtraderumors.com and also that Alex Rios is indeed on the block. Okay, JS needs to be on the horn right now offering Davies and a prospect (not Escobar or Salty) for Rios. He would kill two birds with one stone. The Jays need a starter badly and could be willing to accept Davies. It was mentioned that the Dodgers could be an intersting partner because of Penny and the White Sox as well.
I wish no ill will to JD Drew. But, if…IF his should is seriously injured I say approach the Sox with a deal for Andruw. Of course, Hansen or Lester would have to be part of the deal along with either Youklis or Wily Mo Pena, and a top level prospect.
By Jordan
December 17, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this
TDub - I like Alex Rios, too. We could swap him for LaRoche without feeling bad about it. But AL for Melky… just doesn’t add up.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
Jordan, what’s the difference? Either way you would be trading a “leadoff” guy for a power hitter straight up. I do, however, feel the Braves need to make a push for Davies. What people here are seeming to not understand is that to get something of value you have to give something of value. That is what a trade is. It would be nice if we could acquire Gonzales or Cabrerra or Figgins for a AA prospect or something but that is not reality. Yes, some GMs are idiots and have done such trades but in most cases trades are seen as equal value at the time of the trade. Now, we all know that it takes times to truly evaluate who got the better end of a trade.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this
No, I wouldn’t do LaRoche for Roberts, straight up. For what that’s worth (which ain’t much, admittedly).
Kevin, where’d you see Raconteurs play? I heard they were outstanding when they played here in Atlanta a while back, but I didn’t make it to the show.
By Paul
December 17, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this
LaRoche (How many homers would he have in that park?) to the O’s for Roberts makes no sense. Even if Baltimore threw in their prized pitching prospect (Penn) I still wouldn’t pull the trigger. Rios would be a great fit but I’m sure the Jays would want James in return. I still think the Braves should offer a package to the Angeles for Figgins. Maybe Salty and Escobar could get it done. (probably not)
By TheWyzyrd
December 17, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this
DOB, Seems Toronto is talking about putting Alex Rios on the market. Would he bit a good fit in left? What do you think Toronto would want in return? Obviously, pitching. … TheWyz
By Troy
December 17, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this
DOB- Do the Braves have any interest in retaining John Thomson at a discounted rate, he doesn’t seem to be drawing much interest, unless he gets a deal real late from teams desperate for pitching
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this
I think signing Thomson could be a good idea. In fairness to him, he was hurt almost from day one of spring training and affected his performance. It would offset the loss of a Davies as far as the depth of the rotation is concerned.
By Heath
December 17, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this
As much as I like AL, I would like to see the Braves package him with another (maybe Davies and/or Prada, etc…) to get a lead-off hitting second baseman and a pitching prospect or a lead-off hitting outfielder and a pitching prospect. Most trade scenarios have pointed towards Anaheim and Tampa, but recently some have been interested in Toronto’s comodities. What is Atlanta’s BEST trading piece (based on money and performance)? Answer: Adam, well….everyone would seem to agree with that I would think. So, does Toronto want Adam?…probably not even interested. Last year, their first baseman: Lyle Overbay who’s numbers were AVG .312 | HR 22 | RBI 92 | OBP .372 | SLG .508 AND he is only 29. What does Toronto do with him if they traded for Adam?…uhhhhh….exactly… Toronto is now probably only looking for pitching help…and oh wait, so are the Braves….I think we can leave Toronto out of our discussions.
And in case you were wondering…Overbay had 145 games at 1st, 11 as DH….he did not play any outfield last year. IF, and only IF he was a viable left field option would the Jays consider a trade and that is ONLY because they have exactly ONE left-handed starter projected in their line-up next year…and that would be….you guessed it….Overbay….
DOB: am I seeing this incorrectly, or do you see the same obstacles as I do?
By journalist jimmy smith
December 17, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this
The Giles family reunion is on.
“Free-agent second baseman Marcus Giles is expected to sign with the Padres early this week, joining his older brother, right fielder Brian Giles, FOXSports.com has learned. Marcus, 28, likely will agree to a one-year deal and possibly a club option. His salary will be significantly less than the $5.5 million that he might have earned in salary arbitration with the Braves, who declined to offer him a contract.”
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this
I have to disagree some Heath. The Braves are looking for pitching but young pitching to stockpile…mostly in hopes of getting rid of Hudson next winter. The Braves do have Davies, while I’m not sure the Blue Jays preferred choice, is a starter with some experience nonetheless. Besides, the Jays don’t have much wiggle room. The Dodgers are a possible trade candidate but I just don’t see why they would want Rios. Someone also mentioned the White Sox, whom I could see but since the White Sox traded Garcia I don’t know who else they would get rid of unless it is Garland.
I wonder what would it take to get a Ryan Freel from the Reds. Adam Dunn’s name has come up in discussions. Perhaps a similar deal as the one offered to Tampa for Baldelli. Lord knows Freel would be worth it since he is so versatile and can play anywhere on the field. Just a thought.
By Heath
December 17, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this
…I have been looking through team’s lineups…etc….don’t really see that many options past the ones we have beaten like a dead horse here already… Tampa/Anaheim seem like the Best options unless the three team trade with Pitt/Yanks provides something more than Cabrera….DOB, you see a team that the Braves could match up better with? (Don’t really like a Reds trade for Freel that much…maybe you do though.)
By christian
December 17, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this
Orphans is amazing…what other TW albums do you enjoy?
By Maine Braves Fan
December 17, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB I was wondering if you could answer my a question. My question is Do you think the Braves will make the angels deal? I hope we can get a quality second baseman and a good leadoff hitter. Thats all I have to say. Thanks for the good article.
By Rosalynn
December 17, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this
Jimma told me last week that JD Drew probabla has frozen shoulda. Jimma knows all about frozen shoulda from that time in London when he and the Queen were wavin’ away (Queen-style wavin’ with the palm flat-up in the aih) at folks and Jimma’s shoulda suddenla seized up and he could wave no moah. They put Jimma in the aihplane latah that day and his little hand was still stickin’ up in the aih. Didn’t come down until I hit him in that frozen shoulda with his own habitat hammah. Jimma hollahed a lot but the shoulda freed up and soon Jimma was back to his old self. Was Scott Boras selling Boston damaged goods? If I was the Boston Red Sox I would send Mistah JD Drew to a good shoulda specialist and have that boy’s shoulda checked out. I would avoid sending him to a doctah in Philadelphia though since that did not work out well for Mahcus Giles last season. Now, does eveahone see the impohtance of goin’ to the doctah? This has not been a good week for mah Jimma. You may have read that his book has become controvehsial and Jimma has had to change his stora. Well, submahrine commandahs can tuhn on a dime and be goin’ the otha way and that’s what Jimma’s doin’. I love the Atlanta Braves and look fohwahd to seeing all of you theah at Tuhna Field next season.
And where is that nice boy Jouhnalist Bob?
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this
What JS is going to have to decide is is he happy with the roster as it stands going into spring training. Does he and the rest of the brass (Cox included of course) have the confidence that either Bohn or Blanco will catch fire? Is Kelly Johnson going to be able to learn 2B quick enough? You would think with him being a SS originally that moving to 2B would be no problem, but who knows.
Honestly, unless someone blew me away with a deal, if I were JS I would only go with the Devil Rays deal and if they foolishly turn it down then so be it. Go into spring training with Aybar penciled in at 2B with either Prado, Orr, or Johnson as a backup. Use Aybar similar to the way the Angels use Figgins. Of course, they could always wait it out until spring too and hope the likes of Loretta or Belliard are still available. If they are, either one could be had for $3 mil or less I would think. Of course the leadoff question would still be unanswered.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 09:42 PM | Link to this
Here’s an idea. If the Braves want Baldelli that bad, and they should to be honest. The Braves could offer the Devil Rays Davies, Devine, and LaRoche for Baldelli and either Greg Norton or Jorge Cantu. The Rays would get a pitcher and a power hitting 1B along with a potential closer. The Braves would be getting a leadoff hitter (who could be the future CF) in Baldelli and Norton or Cantu could sovle the 2B problem even if its temporarily.
By Bryan
December 17, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this
Well, the braves almost got Roberts and Penn for LaRoche … which i really think that wasn’t that bad of a trade DOB.
By John Hoar
December 17, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this
Question-What is the current situation on J.D.Drew? I know that on Thursday and Friday that the contract had not been signed with the Red Sox dependent on physical. But, from reading this blog, it seems as though something has happened to confirm the problem. Has that happened, or is it just that the contract has not been finalized yet and that makes it seem likely that the deal may be off? Thanks.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this
Bryan, you’re right. Given that the Braves got nothing for Giles, and obviously knew at that time at the winter meetings they weren’t going to get anything for Giles alone, the LaRoche/Giles trade for Roberts/Penn would not have been bad, in retrospect.
If they believe Penn will develop into the prospect he’s been made out to be, then the Braves would do a lot worse than trading LaRoche for Roberts AND Penn. But not Roberts alone. That was the whole point of LaRoche/Giles for Roberts/Penn, from what I was told by a Braves official _ it was a tradee the Braves knew they wouldn’t be able to do in a couple years, meaning when Penn was a proven starter.
By MBATL
December 17, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this
John Hoar, HERE is a link to the story on Drew’s shoulder. This is from the Boston Herald, but I’m sure it’s on the rumor sites as well. I don’t think anyone knows anything for sure, but speculation is mounting…
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this
Christian _ The Heart of Saturday Night, Swordfishtrombones, Mule Variations, Frank’s Wild Years, Heartattack and Vine… so many of them.
Maine Fan, don’t know about the Angels trade. Haven’t heard that they’ve talked in recent days, and Angels aren’t likely to trade any pitching now, which is what the Braves wanted (in addition to Figgins and Kotchman)…
I think we all should keep in mind, when considering the supposed three-way deal and others, what Schuerholz has said so many times about this winter’s priority: Improve the pitching. I don’t think signing Tanyan Sturtze and trading a No. 5 starter for a strong setup man is all he had in mind, and if he trades LaRoche you gotta think he’ll want pitching as part of any package in return.
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this
By David O’Brien
December 17, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Oh, and if you dont like being called out, write another of your classic, whiny letters to someone in charge of the blog. We all get a laugh out of them anyway. Grow some, would you? Stand up and be a man.
What I don’t like is being lied about by a “professional” sportswriter. Mr. O’Brainiac never stated when exactly I was to have posted as John Rocker and TheSouthernJackAss. What does that mean? It means that he can’t and that he fabricated the whole thing. All that ink and “calling me out” based on a lie that he jumped on and ran with.
Hey, yella, I’m callin’ you out. Give the exact times of the posts or you are a liar.
By Jared
December 17, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this
Someone needs to kidnap JS until the start of the season (not really.) With all these LaRoche for Roberts and LaRoche for Melky rumors going around, it seems JS is determined to make at least one bad trade to counterbalance the good trade he already made.
I thought pitching was his concern. Can Brian Roberts pitch? No? Then why do it?
By Troy
December 17, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this
DOB- what do you know about Baseball america is it worth the $90 subscription
By The Grinch
December 17, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this
So much love…KC, if the Braves do as you say I think a WS victory is all but assured. I’d love to see your projections on Reitsma(6-2, 2.88 ERA, 22 saves in 24 opp. and 68 SO in 54 IP.)? Luv ya though, in the midst of all these nay-sayers.
By Troy
December 17, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this
I never get into you guys music conversations because I am a little younger but you guys outta check out 30 seconds to mars if you haven’t heard them already they are excellent
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this
Troy, they have a lot of great content in Baseball America, including tons of minor league and draft stuff you can’t get anywhere else, at least not in one place. That said, it’s for hardcore fans. If it didn’t qualify as a business expense, I don’t know that I’d get it, because $90 is steep. But if money’s not that big a deal, by all means do it.
I don’t know that I answered your question.
If you do get it, make sure to ask for the Almanac as your free gift (you get a calendar or the Almanac or something else, but the Almanac is full of great stuff).
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this
NOT ME. NO WAY. I AM A CHOIRBOY.
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this
By David O’Brien
December 17, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Oh, and if you dont like being called out, write another of your classic, whiny letters to someone in charge of the blog. We all get a laugh out of them anyway. Grow some, would you? Stand up and be a man.
What I don’t like is being lied about by a “professional” sportswriter. Mr. O’Brainiac never stated when exactly I was to have posted as John Rocker and TheSouthernJackAss. What does that mean? It means that he can’t and that he fabricated the whole thing. All that ink and “calling me out” based on a lie that he jumped on and ran with.
Hey, yella, I’m callin’ you out. Give the exact times of the posts or you are a liar.
By Curt
December 17, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
I think a good short term fix for 2B would Mark Loretta. Very inexpensive only 3.25 million last season. The Braves could sign him for a year and wait for prospects to fill in. This is not a Fantasy Stud, but gets the job done at a relative low cost.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this
Jared, the “then why do it part” on the LaRoche/Roberts deal would be clear: They’d do it because they’re that much more comfortable replacing LaRoche with Thorman than they are in their current 2B/leadoff situation, with the unproven guys they have there.
Roberts would take care of those two areas. Not saying I’d do it (I wouldn’t), but saying I can see their rationale IF they do it.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this
I wonder if the O’s would go ahead and trade Roberts and Penn for LaRoche since they were going to do it when Giles was part of the deal and even though Giles is no longer an option it has already been confirmed that the O’s have contacted Mark Loretta. So, in the end it would basically be the same trade.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 17, 2006 11:05 PM | Link to this
in conversations with willard wurlitzer today it was learned that the next wurlitzer prize for doing journalism will be awarded in spring 2007. nominations are being taken and the wurlitzer selection committee will be convened. where are all the wurlitzer worthy writers?
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this
NOT ME. NO WAY. I DON’T WANT NO STINKIN WORLIZUR. I DIDN’t POST THIS. WInder who did?
By Rick
December 17, 2006 11:15 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know why every team has money to burn but the Time-Warner Braves. It is time( excuse the pun) that we are set FREE(of LIberty Media) and in the best interest of baseball welcome Arthur Blank back into the fold. Please Boston just paid JD Drew big bucks and the Braves are worried about 3-5 million for LaRoche. Please Big Bud in the best interest of Baseball and my sanity..Give Time Warner the NO on Liberty Media and help Atlanta have its one winner back. Please NO more Falcon and Hawk rebuilding programs
By Jared
December 17, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this
Hayden Penn is not the Orioles prized pitching prospect. Adam Loewen (don’t know if that is spelled correctly) is their top pitching prospect.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 17, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this
this journalist is amused. after months of having this journalist’s name appropriated by the stinky blogger with all kinds of vulgar posts attributed to this journalist -now the stinkybug seems to be having problems of his own. NOT MY POST! how clever. why didn’t jimmy smith think of that? well, stinkbug looks like somebody on here has your number and your name and is taking some liberties with your ask. imagine that! think it is jimmy smith? how about journalist bob? nah, we like you too much. could it be someone that doesn’t like you? that sure narrows it down, huh? that business overnight with the NOT MY POST crap was pathetic. go get some counseling. this is dob’s blog and he says you are unwelcome. journalist would second that. wanna take a vote?
now, baseball ownership… arthur blank is having troubles of his own right now. seems there is a matter of stock option irregularities at hd on his watch. then there is the 7-7 football team with the franchise qb who lines up as a rb. and the coach that doesn’t want to be there … arthur has some issues to address.
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this
I went back into the post and wrote some stuff on the Roberts/LaRoche rumor, since a lot of folks have questions about it. There’s a few graphs on why the Braves might do it, Roberts’ contract status, etc.
By Stinky
December 17, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
What would the pill-poppin’ man in black say? After he threw up, that is.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 17, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this
DOB, I thought Prado looked pretty good when he played last year. What is it about him that the Braves have doubts about? Is that he is not a leadoff hitter? Is it something in his defense?
If no trade is made, will the Braves in the end just go with Aybar and turn Kelly Johnson into that “super” utility guy they want? I think getting pitching via trades will be very hard for the Braves when they don’t want to give anything up.
What about Corey Patterson? He seemed to finally find himself last year. Would the O’s being willing to give him and Penn up for Salty and Escobar or perhaps Davies and Escobar (future replacement for Tejada?)?
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this
Oh, Jimmy Smith…why did you have to bring up the Falcons? While some of the problems are player related, I would venture to say 80% are coaching related. The head coach, OC and DC all need to go. The special teams coach and QB coach (yes, Bill Musgrave has improved Vick’s mechanics and footwork this year) should be the only ones retained. Time to start over, prefferably with competent people this time.
By AdirondackDave
December 18, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this
DOB — Thanks for the last update. Still think the Roberts deal is the least desirable option being discussed. Think about this lineup without LaRoche AND Andruw. We may be only a year away from this dilemma if we deal LaRoche and can’t pull off Baldelli. If we can’t get Gonzales to give us a lights-out bullpen, I think it’s a mistake to weaken our offense. But go after Baldelli in ANY case.
Good night and .. oops, I’m not Edward R. Morrow.
By bravesfan
December 18, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this
If the braves trade LaRoche then I know they have no plans of making it. I will stop attending games and I will no longer buy their braves attire.
It they want fans in the seats then leave our good players alone and give us something to cheer about. I for one am sick of seeing our young stars (wainwright) closer for another team when we needed one so badly. That really hit home hard. They trade Adam for a player we just dont need, well then im done. I will support a team that cares about the team and the fans. Its obvious that the Braves owners do neither.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 18, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this
I wonder what the Cubs would want for Ryan Theriot? Some of you may have not heard of him but he came up mid season with the Cubs last year and tore it up. He has some speed, hits for average, had an astronomical OBP and can play 2B. He is young and dirt cheap. The Cubs really don’t have a spot for him since they acquired DeRosa and have Ronny Cedeno. Maybe the Braves could offer Thorman or Langerhans.
By MBATL
December 18, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this
I’ve heard all along that the Braves don’t want to start Aybar (guess I’ve heard it from DOB, mainly).
I agree, Robert… not much mention of Prado. He’s hit everywhere he’s played and I think has a pretty good glove. But like you said, he’s not a leadoff type.
I sure don’t like the Roberts deal, even with Penn.
I think if we can come away with Baldelli, or Cabrera (and maybe Proctor?), or Gonzalez (and maybe Castillo?)… any of those deals, we’ll be in great shape.
If none of those work out, let Prado or KJ or Aybar win a starting job in the spring… I think we’ll be okay.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:31 AM | Link to this
Wow, gotta share this with you all.
Stinky was right about one thing: Stinky, I was mistaken when I said he used screen names SouthernJackAss and John Rocker yesterday. You did not. Repeat, you did not. Sorry about that, pal.
HOWEVER … you’ve used just about every other name.
Boy, are you caught. You’d have been better off not protesting so loudly, because then I wouldn’t have been so vigilant in having the guys go back over the history of posts and see who you have posted as.
You’ve been a busy young man, I’ll give you that. And this time, there’s NO MISTAKE.
As it turns out, several folks were right who assumed you were using many, many names.
HEREIN, the list of screen names that the person using Stinky’s computer has used in his past 125 posts, which isn’t even the full month:
Stinky, Little Tommy Glavine, DOB’s Special Friend, Rob Lowe, Bobby Cox, Just Curious, Solomon Grundy, Nick Esaske, Lem Barker, Chris Moneymaker, WedgieBoy, Weasel, Shakes the Clown, Old Guy, Edvard Munch, Tommy Chong, Marcus Giles, Boz Skaggs, Jim Mora.
I’ll repeat, because I’m always willing to acknowledge my mistakes: No John Rocker or SJA…. Just 19 other names. My goodness. Get out much?
After this, I’m done sniping with you. You can continue blogging about yourself day and night, though. No problem. Just try to narrow it down to, say, 10 screen names.
Can’t even believe I’ve been reduced to detective work to find this stuff out. But frankly, I want the blog to be enjoyable for as many people as possible, and you’re an impediment to that, day after day.
You’d be shocked at how many e-mails I get asking if there’s any way to get you and SJA banned, people that just can’t take any more of your self-absorbed, childish garbage and profanity. And while I don’t have the power to ban, and you manage to push the envelope and stop just short of saying something to get yourself banned, I can make an effort to do something to help all the people who are offended by you. So I have.
See if you can blog for a day or so without talking about yourself, just about the Braves or music or whatever else most cool people here blog about. Whether you want to do it as Nick Esasky … or Tommy’s Little Friend … or DOB’s Special Friend, etc., etc., whatever makes you feel best. It’s OK.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this
Adirondack Dave, I agree that removing LaRoche’s power numbers, perhaps a year before you remove Andruw’, well … if they do this deal, I sure hope they’ve got bigger plans to replace some of that power later.
But I just don’t think they’ll do either of these deals, not straight-up for Cabrera or Roberts, without getting something else.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:37 AM | Link to this
But I gotta tell you Sybil, it was kinda funny to see you cutting and pasting all those posts all day long with “not my post,” like some obsessed freak … oh, wait a minute.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this
Sorry, mispelled one of your names. Nick Esasky. Not Esaske.
And the wording of my “apology” was clunky. Here it is: Stinky was right about one thing: Stinky, I was mistaken when I said you used screen names SouthernJackAss and John Rocker yesterday. You did not. Repeat, you did not. Sorry about that, pal.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 18, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this
DOB, what about Ryan Theriot from the Cubs? He did a very good job last year for the Cubbies after he was called up. He plays 2B. He is fast, hits for average, and cheap. With DeRosa being singed he is the odd man out. Not to mention Ronny Cedeno is also there. I wonder what the Cubs would demand in return for him.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this
Robert, I don’t know that Theriot is an upgrade over what the Braves have got, really. He’s 27, spent six seasons in the minors, and before hitting .328 with 3 homers last season in 134 at-bats for the Cubs, he hit over .273 only twice in the minors and never hit more than two home runs in a season.
Don’t know if he got a windy day at Wrigley or maybe at Cincy’s bandbox, didn’t check his numbers by park or anything, but he’s another powerless guy.
He’s had really good walks/K ratio and OBPs, and that’s about it, until the last couple of years when he hit for a higher average. I mean, this is a guy who’s only had 40 RBIs in one season, only had more than 20 doubles in two of his six seasons in pro ball.
By Jared
December 18, 2006 01:09 AM | Link to this
This is how sad of a man “stinky” is:
http://www.draysbay.com/story/2006/12/11/17474/691#commenttop
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 01:10 AM | Link to this
Mighty interesting. At least he isn’t a liar. :-) G’night, all.
By TJ
December 18, 2006 01:11 AM | Link to this
Just saw a blog on bucdugout.com that offered a little different slant on the 3 way trade rumors involving the braves, yankees and pirates. It had the pirates sending gonzalez to the yankees and castillo to the braves. The yankees sending cabrera and proctor to the braves and laroche going to the pirates. This obviously isn’t going to happen but it’s a better rumor than the one sending laroche straight up for cabrera.
By dick
December 18, 2006 01:14 AM | Link to this
Dave-
Is LaRoache pretty much the braves only trading chip at the moment?
Who plays first base for Tampa? They seem to like cheap players with some MLB experience. Would LaRoache-Baldelli straight up not work?
By TJ
December 18, 2006 01:21 AM | Link to this
OOPS the bucdugout.com rumor also had davies going to the yankees. Maybe it wasn’t such a good rumor after all.
By BayouBrave
December 18, 2006 01:22 AM | Link to this
DOB: What about a minor leaguer named J. C. Holt competing for the second base job in spring? I saw him play at LSU for a couple of years- the kid’s got tons of speed and a decent bat. Do you think he’ll be ready anytime soon… and just how high are the Braves on him?
By Lew
December 18, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this
I think the Rays were moving Jorge Cantu to first this year.
By Lew
December 18, 2006 01:30 AM | Link to this
Holt is ranked at #17 among position players in the farm system. He is said to be improving, but needs more consistency at the plate-according to Chop Talk. Cambell (#4) and Prado (#8) are ranked well ahead of Holt.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:39 AM | Link to this
Jared, thanks for the link. Does he count as one of those “half dozen” fans on this blog, or does he count as 19, or what?
Looks like they do actually have about a half dozen on that other blog he found. Maybe he’ll post as 19 folks there and boost their numbers.
‘night
By berigan
December 18, 2006 04:56 AM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the update on Tower! I rushed over there last week after I tried to call them, and the number had been disconnected! Kroger told me they were still open, and they were. Sad to see them go….I’ve been to several tower’s in L.A. area, and a few around D.C./Maryland. Bet you have been to every tower in the U.S., David! ;)
By jeb064
December 18, 2006 05:09 AM | Link to this
I am not a big LaRoch fan so seeing the Braves deal him I will not be mad. I would be happy getting pretty much any of these players. I am not big on roberts but gettin a prospect like Penn would be nice. I think the braves should get a nice package thoguh for him. Getting Cabrera and another pitcher would be just as good.
By Jared
December 18, 2006 05:54 AM | Link to this
Even if you’re not a LaRoche fan, do you think trading him for just Brian Roberts is a good deal? That is the rumor. No Hayden Penn. No Chris Ray. No Melky Cabrera and Scott Proctor (the story seems to say the Cabrera thing ain’t happening.) Just LaRoche for Roberts. That is a terrible deal for the Braves’ second best offensive weapon and someone who plays great defense.
If it’s something like Roberts/Penn or Roberts/Ray, okay, I can live with it. Still wouldn’t really care for it, but it’d fill needs. But Roberts alone sucks. I find it worrisome that JS may really be considering this, if so, then may Peter Angelos step in again.
By Mitchie-san
December 18, 2006 06:53 AM | Link to this
We have options at 2nd. Not some of the best, but options. @nd base wasnt the problem last year. It actually had no effect on the outcome. What did? Pitching. If we are to trade Laroche, we need pitching i return. Plain and simple.
Then dump two prospects for Rocco and gear up for next year.
By br618
December 18, 2006 07:10 AM | Link to this
the reason braves officials won’t confirm or deny the rumor is helps create a smokescreen for what js is really going to do.
By Barrett
December 18, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this
DOB. Thanks for your info… I’m pretty new here so I haven’t had time to thank you yet. If you like the raconteurs then you should listen to Brendon Benson. He is the other singer in the raconteurs but he has had a solo career for a while. It’s pretty interesting/good stuff. Also try Rhett Miller.
Back to the braves. If the braves were interested in the pirates second baseman castillo, then why not ask for in the tree way trade as well. It just seems that he should be included in this deal as well but I haven’t heard his name in any of the Pitts. papers or the new york ones( I would listen to the homeless guy down the street before those though)even though I’m not sold that this is the right move.
By John Adcox
December 18, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this
Wow. Thanks for recommending the Waits set. I picked that, and it could well be my favorite from him. Yeah, it is sure to drop after I play some of the older stuff again, but wow. I can’t believe this is mostly leftovers that didn’t make other albums, because each disc just flows. Terrific stuff. Thanks again.
By braves fan
December 18, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
These rumors are ridiculous, whether true or not. If they are true, then the Braves are overvaluing the need for a leadoff hitter. And given the Braves’ history, I don’t believe they’d mortgage LaRoche for a leadoff hitter. The Braves had a pretty potent offense last season (June notwithstanding) even with a struggling Giles in the leadoff position. And in past season’s they’ve gotten by without a prototypical leadoff guy. I find it hard to believe that a guy who gets on base at a .350 OBP clip but has no power is more important that a guy who gets on base at a .350+ clip and hits 30+ homers and drives in 90-100 rbi’s. Unless you are going to play with what I call the Jim Leyland Pirates philosophy (Jose Lind leads off, gets on base, Jay Bell bunts him over for Bonds/Bonilla/Van Slyke), why do you need these stereotypical 1 & 2 slot hitters? Cox didn’t bunt Giles over with Renteria very much. My philosophy is that if you have good hitters (like Rent, Chipper, AJ, LaRoche, McCann), why not just put these guys 1-5 in the order, starting with Rent? I think the potency of these guys, plus Francoeur at 6, will make up for any deficiency that a leadoff hitter might have added. But Roberts for LaRoche or Melky for LaRoche is ridiculous. Roberts had one good season and costs more, and Melky, while decent, is not the run producer that LaRoche is. And unless the Braves still feel vulnerable in the bullpen, there’s no need to swap rochy for Gonzales. Pitching is the only thing the Braves should be willing to swap Rochy for. Period end of story. I think Prado, Aybar and Kelly Johnson are three pretty good players, who, if put in a competition for 2B would yield a productive spot. But I’d still pursue the Baldeli move. But not at the price of Chuck James.
By Turnin2
December 18, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
And I quote….”One of our primary objectives this off-season was to bolster our bullpen,” Braves Executive Vice President and General Manager John Schuerholz said.
Now let’s fast forward to December 17, 2006…approximately 2 weeks after that quote…he stated he wanted to upgrade the pitching, could have had Tommy for a few million, and chose not to…then he let’s Marcus and another pitcher go through non tendering. Next he gets a pitcher who can’t work until May and another who got whacked on the head and is having a Godawful winter league season…add to that some has beens and neverwases that were invited to ST, and it gets even more confusing…essentially we seem to have traded a starter for a reliever, replaced Chirs with another reliever who can’t throw right now, and got rid of our 2B without a known replacement…and now we’re talking about getting rid of our 1B…for yet another OF, who can’t even lead off and has much worse power numbers than either Marcus or Adam…maybe there really is a master plan, but I sure as hell can’t figure out what it is yet.
…and it’s p** me off!
By john
December 18, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this
I would absolutely LOVE to see LaRoche remain a Brave. Baltimore is not going to part with Roberts, so we can pretty much dismiss that talk. The Angels will always be hesitant to trade pitchers, so they’re probably out. The 3-way is very doubtful. The one I’m concerned with is talks back on with ATL-PIT. I wonder if PIT put back on Gonzales and Castillo for LaRoche, would JS do it? I believe he would.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
December 18, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
DOB
So I guess you like Electric Rodeo, Huh? Comments? Favorites?
BTW I forgot to mention, I was surprised to see how tiny Shooter is, when he walked out on the stage. I’m not good at judging weight, but I’d say 5’9” 130 pounds tops. Wasn’t Waylon a pretty big dude?
By Mitchie-san
December 18, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
Turnin2… where did you see Soriano’s winter stats at?
By braves fan
December 18, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
Aside from a poor June, and with the addition of Wickman this Braves team is a playoff contender. The offense was great and they’ll have a full season of Chuck James in the rotation with Smoltz, a healthy and rested Mike Hampton, and Hudson who at his worst will eat innings and at his best will winning 75% of the time (plue he’s reverting to his pre-2005 offseason workout program). The fifth spot is a question mark, but tell me which team in MLB doesn’t wonder about their fifth starter? They have a proven closer and a live arm setup man Soriano, to add to McBride/Paronto, with Boyer coming back and a mix of other arms to compete for spots. They are set at 6 of 8 regular positions, with a decent platoon returning in LF with Langerhans on defense and Diaz for offense. The only iffy spot is at 2B where the Braves not only have three (four if you count Orr) major league players to compete for time in Aybar, Kelly Johnson, and Prado. I’d say that that the Braves are not in any need to make another trade, unless it is Braves prospects for a major leage player. I wouldn’t trade any of the Braves top 4 starting pitchers, or any of the 6 set regular position players for anybody right now. They can win because they have confidence that they won’t see leads get lost in the 8th or 9th innings, like they did prior to Wickman coming here.
There’s no need to make a trade for a leadoff hitter. It’s an overrated requirement. After the 1st inning, it doesn’t matter who’s hitting #1. So the Braves are going to trade LaRoche straight up for somebody to be leadoff for 162 at bats? Not happening.
By CK
December 18, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
So we can’t afford laroche now? Then what is all the talk about Wells who is making $120 million. That will never happen.
By Porkins
December 18, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
DOB,
I watch every game and read every blog/post, but never been a stats guy. I know that LaRoche had a good stats year, but in the 162 games that have blended together this year (and last year, too), my overall memory of Adam was as a rally-killer. So, if I have that mindset that, “Oh, great, here comes LaRoche; strike-out or double-play time,” does that mean it’s just a self-fulfilling prophecy when he DOES do it, or am I kinda right?
Is there a statistical way to see how a batter contributes to a team’s wins, and not just his individual achievements? I know that sounds stupid, but, to compare: It’s like how people stop you from praising Yankees players who have a ton of RBIs, because they have it “so easy” with guys who are so great at getting on base in front of them.
I’m just trying to pinpoint why I really want to see LaRoche traded.
By Alan
December 18, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
I agree with everyone, including DOB, who doesn’t comprehend the Braves’ apparent desire to part ways with LaRoche. It’s got to be the money, even though JS denies ANY of his trades have to do with money. Almost all of them do these days. And LaRoche’s ‘07 salary - even after arbitration if it goes to that - will be affordable - $2.5-$3 million. The Braves’ financial situation must be more dire than we thought. As for Brian Roberts, I’ve seen him play several times, and he’s a terrific player - a definite upgrade over Giles in every respect. I wouldn’t trade LaRoche for him straight-up, but I’d consider it if a good pitching prospect, such as Penn, were included. Then again, Roberts’ ‘07 salary probably will be close to what the Braves would have paid Giles, so I don’t understand that move, either. Unless the Braves are convinced that Giles really is on a steep decline. The proposed trade with the Yankees has to be a joke. Melky Cabrera looks like a good young player and he did have a strong rookie season. But come on. It was 1 year. There’s no doubt in my mind that if LaRoche is traded for him, it’s nothing more than a salary dump - which would be a shame. JS would probably say that LaRoche is the Braves’ most tradeable commodity - but I don’t buy it (pun clearly intended).
By CK
December 18, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this
I guess the 3 million annual fans attending the home games, buying souveneirs,concessions, parking and other Braves items just can’t cover the $80 million dollar payroll. Get real Braves. You are bordering on offering a subpar product trying to copy the small market clubs success but for some teams that formula doesn’t work.
By john
December 18, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this
DOB
This is one of the best blogs I’ve read. Most people are in agreement that, although LaRoche is very tradeable, why do it? He, McCann and Francouer, in my opinion, are the future of Atlanta baseball. And I have to say, it’s a bright future. JS did exactly what he needed to do this offseason…improve the bullpen. We have nice, young talented pitchers and position players. I could understand if we’re struggling at the All-Star break, then fine, make some moves to improve. But I believe this current team is good enough to fight for the division, not just a wild-card spot.
By JasonInMaine
December 18, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this
The only other thing that I can think of is that the Braves must obviously be more confident in their ability to find a suitable replacement at 1B internally than they are in CF. Also, more from Dejan Kovacevic from the Post-Gazette:
General manager Dave Littlefield’s priority remains finding a way to acquire LaRoche, 27, who had 32 home runs and 90 RBIs last season and would more than fit their bill for a young, left-handed power hitter. Atlanta still would welcome the addition of Gonzalez, even after acquiring setup man Rafael Soriano from the Seattle Mariners, but the Braves want more to part with LaRoche because their backup at first base, Scott Thorman, is no known commodity.
The odds still favor Atlanta making a deal with the Los Angeles Angels rather than the Pirates, as the Angels would be better able to fill the Braves’ need for a leadoff-hitting second baseman.
Regards,
Jason
By Fan with No Name
December 18, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this
Porkins, try “Win Shares” (a stat that tries to assign shares of a win to the players responsible). It seems really complicated and I think there are some differing versions of it out there, but according to the Hardball Times, LaRoche ranked 47th in the NL, 5th on the Braves and 8th among NL first basemen with a total of 17 Win Shares last year. You might try googling win shares if you want to know more. Hope that helps you.
By Felipe
December 18, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
I feel trading LaRoche would break the youthfullness the Braves are starting to build. Promote Blanco to second, a great leadoff hitter and the Braves make a serious run at the World Series. This team does not need to spend big money to win, just stick with the young guns already in place.
By Fan with No Name
December 18, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this
Maybe DOB knows if there is a definitive Win Shares list and whether or not it is good stat or not.
By the way, Dave, James McMurtry is very good. Thanks! Have you listened to Josh Ritter? If not, you should check him out.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
careful, john. still need another pitcher in this journalist’s opinion - though the team is decidedly stronger than the one that left spring training last year. they could score runs - just couldn’t stop the other team from scoring more. only problem is that if js trades for a pitcher who can help he will have to give up a position player(s) who can help.
and to those who want a leadoff batter - if bobby has a true leadoff hitter what difference will it make if the team plays bobby-ball?
By john
December 18, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
I agree we need another pitcher. I’m just saying that our bullpen is already improved over last year. But yes, if he was traded for a good pitcher and position player, I can understand. But I don’t know if we can get a really good position player and a top-notch pitcher just for LaRoche. And I certainly wouldn’t agree with packaging him with one of our young pitchers. I think we can add a quality bullpen arm without giving up one of our young guns.
By Tom
December 18, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
Incredible blog. Easily my favorite writer at the AJC.
DOB: The persistence that the Braves supposedly are showing in including LaRoche in proposals puzzles me greatly. There’s something more to the situation than meets the eye. The guy is pretty cheap and came into his own BIG TIME last year. It just isn’t a “Braves-type move”, if you ask me.
Is it possible that MLB could actually crack down on the ADD medication that he and a few others are taking?
I just don’t get getting rid of him if we have all of the facts. I’m with you in signing a stop-gap with Aybar helping out if it comes to that.
By BamaBrave
December 18, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
More of the same thoughts… After years of mediocre play out of the first base position, LaRoche matures into a good glove and strong bat…so WHY oh WHY would we trade him unless he brought back some incredible pitching? Thorman isn’t ready, is he? I’d love to have a legitimate leadoff guy, but I hope JS doesn’t make a deal just to make a deal.
By KC
December 18, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
braves fan:
You are correct, sir. I agree with you that the Braves do not need to make any other trades. A setup man was the only need they had heading into next season. Now of course, if there’s an opportunity to upgrade the team in any way, Schuerholz will do it… But the Braves are in pretty good shape as things stand right now.
If anyone is curious how the Braves stack up against the Mets, below is a link to a post that breaks it down. The Braves are in significantly better shape right now. If the Mets sign Zito, that would narrow the gap between these two teams, but the Braves would still have a slight edge in my view until/unless Pedro makes a triumphant return (and this shoulder surgery could very well further affect his already injury/surgery diminished stuff).
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2006/12/13/somemissthe_p.html#comment-881254
By Porkins
December 18, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
Fan with No Name, thanks for the info. I actually had never heard of the Win Shares stat. DOB, any insight into this?
By KC
December 18, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
DOB:
All of your predictions seem very reasonable to me… with one exception. Mike Hampton. You predicted the following:
“Mike Hampton: 7-7, 4.50 ERA, 71 K in 130 innings.”
You obviously don’t expect Hampton to make a healthy, successful return this year. Why? I know you’ve seen me make this point numerous times, but the 18 month thing is HUGE. There is a tremendous difference between coming back from ligament replacement surgery after 18 months, vs. only 12 month. Huge difference, according to doctors. Since the consensus among doctors who perform this procedure is that FULL takes about 18 months, and there’s now a 90% success rate… wouldn’t that suggest that complications are unlikely for Hampton this season?
As for other health issues, he does not have a history of being overly injury plagued. 2005 was the first season in 9 years in which he failed to make at least 29 starts (and made less than 30 only once in that span).
I wouldn’t expect you to project him as a CY Young contender or even top 10-15 in ERA… but still, I’m a little surprised by your projection on that. I’m curious what your rationale is for your lack of faith in Hampton this season.
By monty
December 18, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this
I for one am like many bloggers who don’t understand the downside to having a slick fielding, 35 homrun hitting left handed hitting 1st baseman whose salary isn’t that high right now. I understand we could use a leadoff man but at the expense of La Roche, I think we would need the 2nd coming of Ricky Henderson. Thorman isn’t ready and it would only leave a void at 1st. Stop the insanity!
By Fan with No Name
December 18, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
KC - I think those were Bill James’ predictions.
By Billy (TBFnB)
December 18, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
Hmmmm…..mabey today will have some news for Braves Fans. over/under SJA will be back before friday?
By MGL
December 18, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
KC,
That was not DOB’s prediction, it was from Bill James. It would be interesting to see what DOB himself thinks.
By KC
December 18, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this
Tom:
I don’t think the Braves are in any hurry to move LaRoche. The Braves just know that he’s the most attractive trade bait (that they can conceivably afford to part with… unlike a Chuck James, etc.) they have, so they’re fielding offers. Now the Braves may have actively pursued a couple of deals involving LaRoche, but only those that would make the team better.
Again, LaRoche hits 7th in the Braves order that has quite a bit of power. Given that they believe in Thorman, have another 1B prospect in the minors, and could even move Salty to 1B and start developing him there if need be… Atlanta could afford to lose LaRoche, and still have a solid offense. BUT, there’s no reason to part with him unless it betters the team… and they won’t, unless it does.
LaRoche for B.Roberts and a top pitching prospect (which, given that Giles apparently had no trade value, is exactly what the trade would have been) would not have been a bad trade. LaRoche for Roberts straight up… that’s a deal I doubt Atlanta will make. If Peter Angelos could keep incredibly unskilled fingers out of the Baltimore front office’s hair… that deal could still happen. But that’s like asking the sun not to set.
If the Angels were willing to package one of their young starters (though not likely), a deal could be struck there. But one way or the other, ultimately, I agree with DOB that no team is going to land LaRoche without coming off with some pitching. The Braves aren’t looking to unload LaRoche… they’re just looking for a deal that will make their team better.
By KC
December 18, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
Fan with No Name: Yes, you are correct. Thank you.
DOB, sorry for the error on my part. Obviously I didn’t read the whole think carefully. My eyes just skipped to the projections and I thought they were yours. My apologies.
Out of curiosity, how well do you agree with his projections. Any you disagree with?
By ernesto
December 18, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this
SJA self-exiled? Stinky publically humiliated? It’s a bad day for the bad men of the blog.
By KC
December 18, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
“If Peter Angelos could keep incredibly unskilled fingers out of the Baltimore front office’s hair… that deal could still happen. But that’s like asking the sun not to set.”
I should ad something to that… I meant to say that if Angelos could stay out of it, and the Oriols packaged a young arm with Roberts, then that deal could still happen.
By thathouguy
December 18, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
FIX THE BULLPEN FIRST!!!!
After suffering through last season, that should be our first priority, so LaRoche for Gonzalez would be my first choice.
Gonzalez’s numbers against some notorious Braves’ Killers such as Beltran,Delgado,Wright and Utley and Howard should be enough to convince any Braves’ fan that this a “must do” deal even if he’s the only piece we get in return.
The original 3-way scenario with Cabrera and Proctor coming in return would be a second option, and the Angel’s deal a third.
The Braves’ were among tops in runs scored last season yet didn’t finish above .500. Gonzalez as a single piece does two things,he helps you shorten a game and neutralize your biggest rivals big bats too.
By Spider29
December 18, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
Keep LaRoche. As others have said, we need him now and we’ll need him worse after we lose Andruw. If possible make the trade with Tampa Bay for Baldelli for the prospects and Davies. Baldelli,while he has had injuries, is a proven major league player. Too many times good minor league players are given “can’t miss” tags then are never heard from. Trade Salty, Escobar and Davies. I think getting Baldelli from TB, getting another strong arm for the bullpen, and tweaking the bench is all JS needs to do for the Braves to win the division and go deeper into the playoffs in 2007. Staying healthier than 2006 would be good too! And to those Salty fans, I am not saying he (or the other two) will never amount to anything. I’m just saying if we can get a player of Baldelli’s caliber who can help us win for the next several years rather than wait and hope those minor leaguers are going to develop as touted, the Braves should make the TB trade and keep Adam LaRoche.
By Cody
December 18, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
If I were JS I would forget about the Melky Cabrera/Brian Roberts straight up trades for LaRoche and go hard after Rocco Baldelli. Do not, and I STRESS Do not give up LaRoche. I would give them Escobar, Davies, and maybe Devine. Why arent we pursuing this deal much more. Or are we?
By Maine Braves fan
December 18, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Lets make a deal that would fill some hole. I dont want to see Prado play second base. I want a proven starter. Lets make the angels deal or if we go with baltimore than lets get penn and roberts. Other wise dont make a trade and promote with in.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
PORKINS, you wrote: “I know that LaRoche had a good stats year, but in the 162 games that have blended together this year (and last year, too), my overall memory of Adam was as a rally-killer. So, if I have that mindset that, “Oh, great, here comes LaRoche; strike-out or double-play time,” does that mean it’s just a self-fulfilling prophecy when he DOES do it, or am I kinda right?”
You are kinda right, actually more than kinda.
Here’s what I mean: As good as LaRoche’s overall stats were, he hit only .254 with runners in scoring position (31-for-122), with four double plays grounded into.
And his average dropped to .215 (14-for-65) with RISP and two outs, with a painful 20 strikeouts.
So yes, your memory isn’t so skewed. He did kill a lot of rallies.
Of course, he also hit .273 with a robust 1.001 OPS in the late innings of close games, with 13 extra-base hits including eight homers in those 77 at-bats. That’s a lot of CLUTCH hits. So there was a lot of good and bad in some pressure situations.
By Bambi Baldelli
December 18, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
I am Bambi Baldelli, sister to Rocco Baldelli. Ever since Rocco was a little boy he has wanted to play for Bobby Cox. When we were little, Rocco would stand-in to bat and ask someone in the dugout to say to him, “C’mon Baldy, go Baldy” and this would put fire in the belly of Rocco Baldelli! Rocco would pretend this was Bobby Cox and he would swing and hit the ball far into the seats! I hope that the Braves will trade for my brother so that he may play for Bobby Cox.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
Barrett, if you like Rhett’s stuff I’m sure you’ve got some of his band’s stuff, right? The Old 97s? Great band. Lot of talent in the Raconteurs, for sure.
By DCarp23
December 18, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
DOB-With the Braves having shown interest in Baldelli, do you think they’d show any interest in Alex Rios, whom the Blue Jays are apparently shopping? He seems to be a very similar player, though a couple of years older.
By Rick Roberts
December 18, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
Trade AJ now—ownership will not sign him to a mega-deal so let’s get something for him. Send AJ to LAA for E. Aybar, Chone Figgins, and E. Santana. Then, send LaRoche to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez and Castilla. Another option would be AJ to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera and Scott Proctor. The Dodgers would probably want AJ—but, best to put AJ in the AL. I just know that we will keep AJ and then lose him for draft picks. That would be intolerable.
By Porkins
December 18, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
Thanks, DOB. I knew you’d come through. Have you ever heard the band …And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead? Sounds like a death metal band name, but really, to me, they are the best pure rock ‘n’ roll band out there right now. Their new album, So Divided, took a couple of listens to get used to, but it’s an underappreciated gem. They are a great mix of melody and raw power.
By Atlanta Yankee Fan
December 18, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
I can appreciate the dedication from the minority baseball fan in Atlanta. However, the fact that they refuse to identify are simply and in their face. Melky is by far the better bargin. Lets first identify the age, one is 27 and the other 22. has anyone compared stats?
personally I don’t care if the trade goes through, howeevr it is ridiculous to assume that Melky is not trade worthy vs Adam
By Voice of Reason
December 18, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
DOB: I’ve seen it mentioned (unsubstantiated, but mentioned) that Pittsburgh is trying to get NYY involved in the LaRoche/Gonzalez thing, as NYY also covets Gonzalez, and they have leadoff LF Cabrera to interest ATL. The last thing I read, acknowledging that it will take more than a straight-up trade to acquire LaRoche, is that Pittsburgh is trying to get NYY to offer up another player to possibly spin off to ATL. Does NYY have any SP prospects that might be of interest to ATL?
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Porkins, I liked the Trail of Dead’s first CD. But didn’t buy the second one after hearing mixed reviews. So you like it better than the first?
By Chambers
December 18, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
DOB, I know the orgainization satys tight lipped and tends to stay as positive as possible, but have you heard anything that would even question Hamptons ability to go a full season? Anything at all? I got to think that somewhere, in the back of their collective thinking, that they have to be preparing on at least the possibility on a hole there in the rotation, no matter how confident they are in his health.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
Adcox, isn’t it AMAZING that Waits left all that stuff off of CDs, that it’s been sitting there unreleased all this time? I mean, it’s better stuff than most artists could ever dream of producing, and it’s his throwouts.
Genius is overused adjective when it comes to musicians, coaches, etc, but applies to Waits, absolutely.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
raisins is here. now we can talk pie. sweet potato pie and cold milk.
aren’t the braves better off in left field right now than they would be at first base without laroche? diaz can hit and catch a little bit. langerhans can field and hit a little bit. kelly johnson can play there, too (can he make the throws?). if laroche is gone whither first base? presence is gone. jurries is not on the 40-man. thorman will have to hurry to be ready. ward is no longer in the picture. whither first base?
By akirell
December 18, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Just a correction to some things said earlier about music.
Trail of Dead have more than two full-length albums. Worlds Apart and So Divided are only their most recent work but they also have Source Tags and Codes, Madonna, and their self-titled debut album…in addition to several EPs.
I like to take music reviews with a grain of salt, because most major indie outlets have panned the new Trail of Dead for being even more of a departure from their previous works. While I think Worlds Apart was pretty clutch, I gotta say that So Divided is even better and has a more epic feeling to it. Disregard the “reviews,” and listen to So Divided.
One more thing: F#@% Pitchfork.
By Porkins
December 18, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Trail of Dead’s first CD, “Source Tags and Codes,” is considered by most to be their best, by far. But what they did on their second album, “Worlds Apart,” is take the same bigness of their sound and make it more accessible; less garage, more anthemic. I think a lot of indie snobs saw this as selling out, as if writing great hooks and sing-a-long choruses is an evil thing. Since Worlds Apart is in my top five albums of all time, I’d highly recommend it.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly, I didn’t realize Shooter was such a little dude, till you said that. He looks scrawny, but not short, in the pix on the CD covers, but you can never tell from that because of the folks he’s around, etc.
Waylon always struck me as a big dude, from booming voice to his pictures where he looks taller and bigger than most dudes he’s around. Got a big ‘ol noggin, for sure. He towered over Jessi Colter, and I don’t think she was small.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
And you’re right about the CD _ overall, better than “Put the O Back in Country.” More pure country, too. I like the first three songs a lot, and he really, really sounds like Waylon on “Some Rowdy Women.”
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Akirell and Porkins, thanks for the insight. I’m gonna give that CD a listen, now. You’ve convinced me.
The only one I have is “Source Tags and Codes,” which is great. Akirell, I did what I hate when other people do, which is call a CD a band’s “first” when it’s actually just the first major-label or wide-release CD they had. I didn’t realize they had so much out before that one.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Fan With No Name, Josh Ritter’s outstanding. I love his latest CD, and did you hear that four-song live EP he put out last year, recorded in Dublin? It’s got a great version of “Kathleen” on it.
Ritter became one of my favorites when he wrote a song called, “Lawrence, KS.” It’s on his Golden Age of Radio CD.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
KC, I don’t want to go through every player with my projection of his 2007 stats, but I agree with you on Hampton _ I do think Bill James is underestimating, but also know that’s how the formula he uses would spit it out, because of Hampton’s recent numbers and injuries.
I think he’ll win 12-14 games and have an ERA right around 4.00.
By berigan
December 18, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
Just think, if this was 2005, instead of 2006, there would be more than a few touting Pete Orr for 2nd base after hitting .300 in part time use. Check this out. In 2005, Orr had 45 hits in 150 AB’s for that .300 Average. In 2006, in 154 AB’s he had 39 hits, and a .253 average. Amazing(to me at least) the difference in average. 6 fewer hits and 4 more AB’s than the season before, and you are a bum who should be released. Yes, I seem to have too much free time. Anyway, Orr had 4 triples in 154 AB’s, we all know he has speed. Seems to play decent 2nd base, why not give him a chance at leadoff, and at 2nd base? Oh that’s right, he’s 27 he’s old, I forgot……
By Voice of Reason
December 18, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
jjs: Would the Braves be better off with Diaz/Johnson/Langy in LF and LaRoche at 1B than Cabrera in LF and ??? at 1B. Well, obviously that depends on who ??? is. I personally don’t think that JS would be dangling LaRoche as blatantly as he is if he didn’t have something up his sleeve besides Thorman. I understand that the public comments say that they like Thorman and would be comfortable with him there. If it’s offense for offense, though, then they have somebody besides Thorman in mind at 1B. I think the real goal is a solid SP prospect. If you can acquire Cabrera and a bona-fide SP prospect, would you pull the trigger? Would it be worth the dropoff in run production? Would you compensate with greater run production from the top of the order with a Cabrera/Figgins type at leadoff? Can I possibly ask another question? Does anybody have any pie?
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
Tom, you wrote: “Is it possible that MLB could actually crack down on the ADD medication that he and a few others are taking?”
I’ve heard no indication whatsoever of that, and really don’t see why they would, long as an approved doctor is prescribing the medication. I mean, I don’t think a doctor on the MLB list is going to risk losing his license by prescribing medication for someone who doesn’t need it, are am I being naive? I can’t see that.
And in LaRoche’s case, he was first diagnosed back in high school in Kansas, long before he was big-time baseball prospect. One of his brother’s also has ADD (not the Dodgers prospect Andy LaRoche).
From what all the experts say, the medication doesn’t give a guy an “advantage” so much as it evens the playing field and makes an ADD sufferer “whole” and able to deal with things just as others can. But I’m not expert, so I don’t know.
By berigan
December 18, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
DOB, you are amongst friends. This was mentioned on a jazz board I frequent….just how many cds do you have that are still sealed? I think the record on that board was someone with 100+ still unwrapped!!!
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Berigan, it really is amazing, isn’t it, how a handful of hits can so totally change a perception and batting average, when so few at-bats are involved?
However, Orr doesn’t play good enough defense to be a lineup regular. No way. When he plays more than a couple of games in a week, he’s exposed in the field.
But I really like the guy, as do the Braves, because he plays hard, he’s versatile, and he has good speed that he makes into very good speed by utilizing every ounce of it, always. Bottom line, though, he could keep a job not because he’s a good dude, but because he’s a pretty good little player and there’s something to be said for having a bit of experience in the bench jobs. And he’s got that now.
By MBATL
December 18, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
I would assume that a big part of the pursuit of an outfielder goes beyond ‘07 (though who knows what’s on JS’ mind?).
If JS feels it likely that we’ll lose AJ, then it might make sense to pursue Cabrera or Baldelli as a replacement for AJ in ‘08. The price is kinda steep for either in terms of what we have to give up, but either would offer a viable and affordable CF for years to come. And if it’s someone who can bat leadoff in ‘07, all the better.
Yes, there will be other options available next year, but will there be similar value for young CFs? And with Smoltz and Wickman not getting any younger, we’re gonna need some $$ to spend on pitching down the road.
It’s quite possible that Laroche and Escobar’s trade value is as high as it’s gonna get. (I HOPE Laroche improves, but he really exceeded power expctations last year; Escobar hasn’t really hit well in the minors, but regained some value by leading the AFL in batting).
Diaz/Langerhans/Johnson/Aybar/Thorman (we need a collective name for the OF group) might be adequate to fill one OF position, but not two.
I don’t see a 2B that’s worth the asking price and salary (Roberts, Figgins); and I’m fine with us standing pat… I think we’re much improved over a year ago. But I can understand the interest in an OF with speed or another topnotch pitcher.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
Jimmy Smith, there can be only one answer. Bobby must do what he can to lure Brian Jordan out of retirement. Can’t you see him showing up on Brian’s ranch, right after a stirring retirement party opening scene, Brian trying unsuccessfully to saddle a not-quite-broke mustang colt…”Hey, Brian,” he says, as Jordan picks himself up out of the hay for the fourth time. “Nice horse.” “Yeah.” Booby nods to the space above the doorway to the barn where a dusty louisville Slugger sits sideways proudly. “See you still got that slugger. What’cha hit back in ‘94 with that, .270?” Brian dusts himself off stiffly. “Don’t even try it Bobby, you know I’m punchin’ cattle now.” Bobby spits tobacco juice in the dust and pulls his Braves cap off, wipes his brow and looks fondly at the “A” on the cap. “Ya know, Roachy got traded.” Brian jerks briefly to attention, then continues to try to throw the saddle back on the horse. “Dammit, Brian, just come to Spring training, that’s all I ask. We got the peices in place, but the young guys need you. I’m…I’m gettin’ old Brian. Doc says a couple a more years, maybe three.” Long silence as Jordan pauses with his back to Bobby, hands on the nervous horse. Then he shakes his head no and tries to mount again. Bobby nods glumly and walks back down the driveway. A few moments later, tense music cues up as Bobby hears the stamping of hooves. He turns and Jordan is next to him, bat strapped in a rifle sling on the newly broken colt. “Will I have to platoon with Thorman?” Bobby grins. “It’s all yours this year, Champ.” Brian reaches a heavily-muscled forearm down towards Bobby. “Then jump up here, old man, and let’s go kick some a* in the East one more time.” Cue triumphant music as they ride towards the hills. Or something like that. Maybe they could just call up Jurries. :-)
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
MBATL, good points. Sound reasoning, in my opinion. I don’t think they should trade him, but I can also understand why they’re considering it, for reasons you’ve stated again.
By the way, one more INTERESTING BILL JAMES PROJECTION from the handbook. He does career projections for guys who’ve played enough to make it feasible to do so (guys like Francoeur, McCann, Baldelli haven’t played enough to do it yet).
Anyway, for LaRoche, I was a bit startled by the soaring expectations, according to James’ projections, which obviously take into consideration age, performance so far, etc:
Adam LaRoche _ projected 1,992 career games, .262 average, 509 doubles, 351 HRs, 1,138 RBIs, .337 OBP, .449 slugging, .836 OPS.
Folks, those are prett big numbers, even for a 1B.
Just for some perspective and because it’s interesting to peruse and ponder, Bill James projects for these guys (and I’ve chosen a couple of 1Bs, plus a couple of recent big-contract guys, and others of current interest to bloggers here):
Derrek Lee _ 2,312 games, .276 avg, 506 doubles, 421 HRs, 1.260 RBIs, .364 OBP, .499 slugging, .864 OPS.
Carlos Lee _ 2,323 games, .283 avg, 520 doubles, 433 HRs, 1,504 RBIs, .339, .494 slugging, .832 OPS.
Alfonso Soriano _ 2,024 games, .272 avg, 485 doubles, 428 HRs, 1,129 RBIs, .324 OBP, .502 slugging, .826 OPS.
Andruw Jones (hand on to your seats) _ 3,051 games, .259 avg, 571 doubles, 677 HRs, 2,009 RBIs, .344 OBP, .500 slugging, .844 OPS
Chipper Jones _ 2,629 games, .296 avg, 567 doubles, 516 HRs, 1,753 RBIs, 1,606 walks w/ 1,609 K, .395 OBP, .525 slugging, .920 OPS.
Brian Roberts _ 2,066 games, .276 avg, 510 doubles, 123 HRs, 750 RBIs, 343 SBs, .344 OBP, .395 slugging, .740 OPS
Marcus Giles _ 2,158 games, .276 avg, 551 doubles, 207 HRs, 917 RBIs, 148 SBs, .354 OBP, .427 slugging, .781 OPS.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Grinch, you should consider screenwriting. That’s good stuff.
By Bruce
December 18, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Dave, following your 11:53 response to PORKINS…
Maybe LaRoche should be our lead-off hitter with his lower RISP and his not so good two out stats. With alot of lead-off homers and doubles, probably most on first pitches, stolen bases would not be an issue… and he does slide into second pretty hard to break up the DPs. (How did Adam do leading off innings last year after June?)
This is mostly tongue-in-cheek on my part, but might be interesting to try power in first slot since we have so much.
It seemed to me that we only had two eight-slot hitters last year (Langy when injured and Pratt when he gave McCann a day off). So if we had no true lead-off and no true 8-hole, why not be creative with lead-off?
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Berigan, more unwrapped than usual, because of the Tower sale. Probably about 40, but again, only because of the sale. Normally I might have only a few unopened, because I like to open em, clean the sticky crap off the edge of the case, and play them at least once soon after I get them, to know whether they’ll go into heavy rotation, onto the Ipod, into the office or bedroom if mellow stuff to work or sleep by, etc.
OK, far more information that 99.3 percent of the people here care about. Actually than 99.9 percent.
By Stinky
December 18, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
19? That sounds about right. Apology accepted, DOB. But, for the record, I only spent about 20 minutes reposting SJA posts.(Is that the famed DOB math at work?)
Anyway, I apologize for general nastiness and for maybe going just a “tad” over the top at times. And for Shakes the Clown’s secret messages.
Now, what about Carl Crawford?
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
Love ya, DOB, but honestly, how much faster would the Braves blog pages load up w/out all the music discussion?
I don’t question your passion for music, nor do I question your taste. I actually program a radio station in Louisiana, and coming here is a nice getaway from work… until I have to click past all the music conversations. :)
I hope the AJC.com folks see your passion and knowledge for music and allow you to blog on it, as well….
…just not here. No offense intended bud.
Meanwhile, I logged in to see if there were any new nuggets of info on hot stove movement, and far as I can tell, there is none. Personally think the three-way trade is a “win-laterr” scenario for the Braves, and by sending off LaRoche we fill one glaring need (in left field and potentially with Andruw leaving next season) and create another glaring need at first base. We have questionable components at LF (Langerhans, Kelly Johnson, and Matt Diaz who I think earned the job last season, personally) and we’d rectify that with Melky, but then put ourselves in the same position at first base if we send off LaRoche. So what this move accomplishes now is beyond me.
Schuerholz & co. speak of making pitching this team’s priority, and with re-signing Wickman and picking up Soriano, he seems to have done that, from the bullpen on up. I’d rather see more movement on the Baldelli front, personally, so long as we don’t give up Chuck (I’m Rick) James (b!tch!) to do it.
And no way do make a trade that helps the Yankers.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
Hey Stinky, try this one on for size: what say we offer the Rays Davies, Salty and a prospect…say Escobar, for Crawford. Think they’d go for it? If not, how about Coco Crisp and a reliever or two?
By Mitchie-san
December 18, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
I am sooooo tired of speculation. ~sigh~ I wish homeboy would do something or just come out and say we are set for next year…no more moves.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
December 18, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
DOB
My first reaction to “Some Rowdy Women” was being all but thoroughly convinced that it was a long lost Waylon-written song that he never recorded. I actually couldn’t believe that it wasn’t a Waylon song. Scrawny, short, greasy, tattooed, and awesome live and in person. Just got through listening to “Aviators” about ten minutes ago.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
December 18, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
Oh and my picture was on his website, too. His guitarist, Leroy Powell, took a snapshot of the crowd and posted on Shooter’s site and his own site (Leroy’s). Don’t know if its still on there, and internet restrictions here at work won’t let me check and see. But I was one of the drunken idiots at Rabb’s Steak House in Ruston, LA in May 2006.
By 22oz
December 18, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
As i recall, Marcus’ defense was lacking when he came up, but some work with Hubbard changed that, Who’s to say the same can’t be done with Pete?
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
Hey, wouldn’t it be nice if the “truce” would last? I’ll make a vow. I’ll have absolutely nothing bad to say about you, Stinky, not one word, without it being in defense after another unprovoked, personal insult, insinuation, etc., from you. Of course, I’ve never had a bad word to say about you in the past without being agitated, slandered, etc., but that’s water under the ‘ol bridge. We’ll see. Moving forward not at all difficult for me, since this really, believe it or not, isn’t a major issue in my life.
Thanks for the gesture. And the D-rays blog comment someone linked us to … really poor. But that’s fine, too.
I’m on the record here, now: Not a disparaging word from me, unless and until provoked.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
December 18, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
Grinch,
You’re killing me. Just when I’m getting over the Big Yellow Shoe saga, you spring an scene from Major League 4 on us. LMMFAO….
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
Ron, I’m sure DOB will be happy to put aside his personal happiness and rearrange the format of his blog to better suit your personal tastes and help your computer load faster. He’s often done so in the past for others. :-)
By Josh(but you can call me Bubba)
December 18, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
I have a master plan. Goes like this: Andruw (I know, I know) to the Angels for Figgins and Santana. If need be LaRoche for Kotchman could be included straight up to sweeten the pot.
Renteria, Davies, Saltalamacchia, prospect? to Orioles for Tejada.
Lineup: Figgins, Diaz, Chipper, Tejada, McCann, Francoeur, LaRoche(or Thorman), Langerhans (CF).
Rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Santana.
Looks pretty awesome from here, plus you cut around $2-3 mil in payroll with these moves. Seems like the other teams would benefit here as well. Of course, LAA would have to come up with an extension to suit Boras. Thoughts anyone?
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly, Aviators and Hair of the Dog two of my other faves on that record. Good stuff. Thanks much for the rec, because I wasn’t going to buy it. Again, shows how wrong some critics can be. It’s better than the first one.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Sorry, Ron, but no format change coming. Respect your views, but plenty of others disagree, including me. And the music talk is a big reason I don’t mind spending about 15 times the amount of time on the blog that I was originally asked to or expected to spend here. No, make that 25 times the time.
You can only rehash the same trade talk so many times, and only talk baseball so much. You asking me to cut out the music and talk only baseball here, is like me asking you to talk only about music, your line of work. Would get awful dull, wouldn’t it?
Sorry, but just click past it. The blog has been quite successful with its current wide-ranging format. We gonna ban talk of music, movies, food, everything but baseball? When we do, I’ll probably correspond with bloggers about as much as our others do.
And that, I’d suggest, wouldn’t sit well with many.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
Hey Grinch,
Did you detect a hint of smart-@ssedness in my prior post, dude? ‘Cause I SURE detet it in yours….
…this isn’t any one person’s blog; it’s a blog under the Braves section on the SPORTS page of the website. I just gave my two cents, and frankly, I’ve never before said anything about the music dialogue til now, while others have in the past.
Before, it wasn’t so prevelant; now it’s a good 40-45% of the blog.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly, from the looks of things it might be more like “Minor League 4.” Man, it’a WAY too nice a day to be indoors.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
grinch, this journalist could not respond sooner for all the tears in this journalist’s eyes. that touching story of brian jordan returning to the team for bobby cox has made this journalist cry like a baby. jimmy smith can see bobby shuffling away with those artificial knees just a squeaking when brian jordan rides up behind bobby and asks, “will i have to platoon with thorman?” oh, that is so moving! dob is right that grinch may be ready for screenwriting big time. of course, this could put the wurlitzer in jeopardy for dob with an accomplished screenwriter now on the blog. just thinking … will have to discuss with willard wurlitzer when willard wurlitzer returns to the office. now, baseball … isn’t stinky charming today? and what has become of james jurries? he is no longer on the 40-man roster. if you look at the braves depth chart thorman is a backup at three positions. aybar backs up at three, orr at two. journalist would think someone might make the club out of a strong spring training performance but since diaz and jurries both were the hottest spring bats last year and both were passed for jordan … hmmm. can jordan also give us a few quality starts? does he possess a breaking pitch?
By Maine Braves fan
December 18, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB. Thanks for answering my question. I have been a Braves fan fore like 16 years. I have never been to a braves game. I really like your style of writing. But getting to a question. Do you think the braves will do anything or are they done? And my next question is do you think the braves could sign Ronnie Belliard? If we could get him for cheap than I say go and trade laroche for something worth while.
By jouranalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
oh, the humanity! just as peace was being restored to this blog …
By Alan
December 18, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts, I agree with you almost 100% of the time, but not this time. How can you say that the Braves will “rectify” anything with Melky? He’s a kid, for crying out loud, with less than 1 full year of experience in the big leagues. IMO, he was the ‘06 Yankees’ version of the ‘04 Braves’ Charles Thomas. And where, exactly, is Thomas these days? Just 2 years after trading Thomas and another can’t-miss “prospect” (Dan Meyer), along with Juan Cruz, for Tim Hudson (a great deal, even with Hudson’s less-than-stellar performance so far), it’s inconceivable that the Braves are so desperate financially that they’re even considering trading a proven and improving (and affordable) commodity in Adam LaRoche for a still-raw rookie. It would be a huge gamble, and I don’t believe it’s worth taking. In fact, the only Cabrera for whom I’d trade LaRoche plays for the Marlins.
By KC
December 18, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
thathouguy: “FIX THE BULLPEN FIRST!!!! After suffering through last season, that should be our first priority”
thathouguy, the bullpen was in fact the Braves’ top priority, and now with the addition of Soriano the bullpen is, for the most part, fixed. That’s not to say that it couldn’t be further improved… but it’s a million miles away from where they started last season. You have to keep in mind that the bullpen was already muchMUCHbetter at the end of the season than it was most of the way through the year.
Remember that guys like Macay McBride, and Tyler Yates were rookies who were cast into the fire out of necessity. It took them a while to acclimate to pitching at this level. The good news is that they did begin to grow into big league pitchers right before our eyes late in the season.
Here’s how the bullpen shapes up right now:
• Bob Wickman: First of all, it’s something of a well kept secret that Bob Wickman has been one of the most dominant closers in baseball over the past two seasons. Yes… “dominant”. You don’t have to throw 98 to be dominant, and Wickman has been exactly that, converting 78 of 87 save opportunities through 05 and 06 (a ratio almost identical to those of Rivera and Wagner)… not to mention a His 2.56 ERA over the past two seasons.
• Rafel Soriano is one of the best setup men in baseball (2.25 ERA, and a better than 3-1 SO/BB ratio), so we’ve got the 8th inning covered now as well.
• Macay McBride: posted an ERA of under 2.00 from July 16th on (and was lights out against left handed hitters all season long).
• Tyler Yates: has closer’s stuff, and matured as his rookie season went along, posting a 2.70 ERA as the Braves setup man in September.
• Chad Paronto: Ground ball specialist… finished the year with a very respectable 3.19 ERA. He’ll probably be used situationally this year when the Braves need a double-play.
• O.Villarreal seemed to adjust quite nicely to the long-relief role. After 4 fill-in starts in late-august/early September, Villarreal made 7 relief appearances to close the season, going 14 innings and allowing no earned runs (or unearned for that matter either). This was his first full season back off of a major surgery (Tommy John?… can’t remember). By the end of the season, he looked to be regaining the form that helped him go 10-7, with a 2.57 ERA in 86 appearances (yes 86!) for the D-backs in his 2003 rookie season.
• Blaine Boyer: They’ll also be getting Boyer back, who as you probably know, missed pretty much all of this season due to injury. But his stuff and his solid 2005 performance caused the Braves to look at him as a possible future closer (05’: 4-2, 3.11 ERA, and a 2-1 SO/BB ratio).
By KC
December 18, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
thathouguy: “FIX THE BULLPEN FIRST!!!! After suffering through last season, that should be our first priority”
thathouguy, the bullpen was in fact the Braves’ top priority, and now with the addition of Soriano the bullpen is, for the most part, fixed. That’s not to say that it couldn’t be further improved… but it’s a million miles away from where they started last season. You have to keep in mind that the bullpen was already muchMUCHbetter at the end of the season than it was most of the way through the year.
Remember that guys like Macay McBride, and Tyler Yates were rookies who were cast into the fire out of necessity. It took them a while to acclimate to pitching at this level. The good news is that they did begin to grow into big league pitchers right before our eyes late in the season.
Here’s how the bullpen shapes up right now:
• Bob Wickman: First of all, it’s something of a well kept secret that Bob Wickman has been one of the most dominant closers in baseball over the past two seasons. Yes… “dominant”. You don’t have to throw 98 to be dominant, and Wickman has been exactly that, converting 78 of 87 save opportunities through 05 and 06 (a ratio almost identical to those of Rivera and Wagner)… not to mention a His 2.56 ERA over the past two seasons.
• Rafel Soriano is one of the best setup men in baseball (2.25 ERA, and a better than 3-1 SO/BB ratio), so we’ve got the 8th inning covered now as well.
• Macay McBride: posted an ERA of under 2.00 from July 16th on (and was lights out against left handed hitters all season long).
• Tyler Yates: has closer’s stuff, and matured as his rookie season went along, posting a 2.70 ERA as the Braves setup man in September.
• Chad Paronto: Ground ball specialist… finished the year with a very respectable 3.19 ERA. He’ll probably be used situationally this year when the Braves need a double-play.
• O.Villarreal seemed to adjust quite nicely to the long-relief role. After 4 fill-in starts in late-august/early September, Villarreal made 7 relief appearances to close the season, going 14 innings and allowing no earned runs (or unearned for that matter either). This was his first full season back off of a major surgery (Tommy John?… can’t remember). By the end of the season, he looked to be regaining the form that helped him go 10-7, with a 2.57 ERA in 86 appearances (yes 86!) for the D-backs in his 2003 rookie season.
• Blaine Boyer: They’ll also be getting Boyer back, who as you probably know, missed pretty much all of this season due to injury. But his stuff and his solid 2005 performance caused the Braves to look at him as a possible future closer (05’: 4-2, 3.11 ERA, and a 2-1 SO/BB ratio).
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
You’re more than welcome to your own opinion, Ron; have at it. Nothing personal; just letting you know what to expect. And it appears I was correct, as per his 2:34 post. I just always get somewhat confused as to why some (a tiny minority) of folks on this blog strive to make it less interesting. If you don’t like the discussions, cool. Don’t read ‘em, or start your own thread. But Dave doesn’t show up at your station and tell you to play less music and more news, so why do that to him? Between Bradley, Moore, Shultz and Bisher there’s almost always a strictly Braves only blog going on, and you get what you pay for with them (I.E. no feedback beyond the original text). Kick back and chill a little, man.
By kdbanks
December 18, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
DOB,
A couple weekends ago I caught an act in Asheville you’d like. Guy named Joshua Black Wilkins from Nashville. He said he rarely gets to Atlanta because it’s tough to convince places like Smith’s to give you a shot without offering to play for free. Ever heard of him? Good mix of alt-country and southern rock. Covered two of three Hanks (1 and 3) pretty well.
By KC
December 18, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
Sorry for the double post.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
Jimmy Smith, you humble me indeed. Surely you jest about my pitiful scribblings having an effect on the Wurlitzer decision…if nothing else, my name doesn’t appear in blue on my posts. As for Jordan’s breaking pitch, I’m sure something would break after almost any pitch. :-)
By TruthinBroadcasting
December 18, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
Truly unfair..DOB publicly exposing Stinky’s other blog names..if DOB had any balls whatsoever, he would have also exposed jimmy smith’s multitude of characters..because I believe they were equally as vile!…but DOB doesn’t…
By Lew
December 18, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
RonRoberts-In case you haven’t noticed, there’s not a damn thing happening baseball wise except the same stupid, idiotic trade speculation we have discussed ad naseum. We have hased and rehased ridiculous scenarios until there can’t possibly be anything left to discuss about them. Just what’s wrong with music? I’ve been listening to Glenn Hughes “Soulfully Live in the City of Angels” and it’s pretty darn good. I just wish I had a good blackberry cobbler to eat while I listen to it. Tonight I’m going to listen to the Allman Bros. Live at the Atlanta Pop Festival, eat grits and blackeyed peas and pretend I’m in Georgia.
By ernesto
December 18, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
Anyone know where Pratt ended up? I’m hoping it’s somewhere, just to guarantee he won’t be grounding into DPs for Los Bravos.
By KC
December 18, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
I should add that the Braves will probably go with a 7 member bullpen, as opposed to 6. That means that the newly acquired Tanyon Sturtz will also likely be down in the pen, unless the Braves go out and get another lefty this winter.
By MBATL
December 18, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
Wonder if/when JS will sit down with Smoltz to talk about a contract extension.
Smoltz is a bargain at $8 mil; he’s consistently (and correctly) mentioned as the ace of our staff… yet, just like AJ, he’s GONE after next year unless we make a deal. Haven’t really heard any mention of that impending crisis.
By David-ATL14
December 18, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
DOB now that Skip and Pete have signed up for radio broadcasts through 2009, any further info on other broadcasters?
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
KC
I like everything you say about the bullpen. A thought or two. I think Devine will be a contributing part of the bullpen by June, maybe sooner. Another possible cog in the wheel is Reitsma. Everybody is SO down on him (not sure what your opinion is), but if you review his record in 04 and 05, you will see that he was a very serviceable setup man. Might still have that potential, if we could sign him to an incentive laden contract. I think he is no more of a wild card that Tanyon Sturtze.
Whaddyya think?
By KC
December 18, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
Okay, I’m an idiot. Wickman, Soriano, Yates, McBride, Paronto, Boyer, and Villarreal… is 7 relievers. So Sturtze will have to win a job in the pen this spring if he is to make the team.
There is a slight chance that the Braves will give Villarreal an immediate chance to win the 5th starter job. I don’t think that’s very likely, but not inconceivable. If that happens, that would obviously open up a spot in the bullpen. If not, the Sturtze will have to try and steal someone’s job. I think that someone would have to be Chad Paronto, because I think everyone else is nearly set in stone.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
Ernesto, I think Pratt retired and started his own blog. From what I understand, though, the hits are hard to come by…
Lew, I reccomend that if you bake a blackberry cobbler, you wait at least 10-12 hours for it to cool off before tasting (ice cream will still melt on it at this point). Otherwise, you’ll be doing your next portrait of a nurse in the burn ward. How DOES that stuff stay so hot so long?
By Riprock3
December 18, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Can’t go wrong with the Allman Bros, Lew. One of my all-time thrills was getting invited to a party the band threw in Savannah, hell, I guess its been 25 years now…Anyway, Allman Bros used to come there all the time….38-Special, Foghat…man those were the days.
By Kay
December 18, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
I would not trade Adam at all. Remember next year we will probably not sign Andruw. Can Atlanta afford this trade? IMO no. Not when we are losing Andruw too.
I am very tired of not being able to keep our own talent when they can be this good. I just dont think the leadoff hitter is as important as a 1st baseman with the power that LaRoche has. Heck play one of the youngsters at 2nd and then keep LaRoche. We will have enough problems next year trying to fill Andruw’s shoes. Not evening thinking if Smoltz will leave and retire. You never know. With our budget restrictions, we need to keep Adam. Replacing Andruw and Smoltz if needed next year is probably going to be hard enough to do.
Dont trade LaRoche. IMO this move if done will be the total distruction of our braves. This move will be the final of the distruction process. We wont recover.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Lew… dude, nothing’s wrong with music; this just ain’t a music site. I realize it’s a slow period for baseball, and I, too, am sick of the “how’s this trade sound?” silliness. It’s pointless and irrelevant.
Alan… I wans’t advocating a trade of LaRoche for Melky Cabrera, man.
Grinch…I don’t need to be told to “chill” man… I’m in a fantastic mood, and if you’d read my post in the context in which it was written, you’d notice I wasn’t badmouthing or berating DOB. Also, bad analogy when discussing my work. It’s actually a large part of my job to be pro-active and re-active to the wants and needs of my station’s listeners. So, in essence, I do let people tell me how our station sounds.
DOB… thanks for the hit-back. I mean ya no disrespect, and I think you could attest to the notion that I never have shown you any, as it is; it’s just that the music discussion has grown exponentially on this blog, and nothing would please me more than to see you get to blog on CDs, music, and concerts somewhere on this site; heck, even doing so and pasting a link on this blog for those that would like to read and participate wouldn’t be so bad - it’d be less for the rest of us to scan past to stick to baseball and los Bravos.
But again, no disrespect meant.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
here’s a hint sugah.
By dougp
December 18, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
I have a dumb question. Was Tyler Yates really a rookie last year? Didn’t he pitch for the Mets before having major surgery? I have just seen him mentioned as a rookie several times over the last few months, and I just need to know.
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
ernesto
As far as Pratt is concerned, I think the Bravos would only sign him up if one of two things happen: 1) They trade Brayan Pena, or 2) If they don’t think Pena can handle the major league backup gig.
There are some decent backup C’s around if we really need one.
By KC
December 18, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
MBATL:
It’s worth mentioning that Smoltz turned down an offer from the Yankees a few years back, believed to have been several million more per season than the Braves’ offer, to stay in Atlanta. Aside from the money, the Yankees’ offer to him was as a starter, while the Braves re-signed him as a closer. Smoltz very much wanted to return to starting back then, so he made an additional sacrifice there to remain in Atlanta. Now, Smotlz is 40 and nearing retirement. I’m not saying he’d be unwilling to leave, but you have to think that he’d very much prefer to retire a Brave.
My point is that Smoltz is far more likely to remain in Atlanta than Andruw is. Atlanta will likely make a fair offer to keep him here, and that might very well be enough in his case. Also, I’m not convinced that Andruw’s gone.
First of all, the sale of the team should be final sometime early next season. Braves’ President Terry McGuirk has provided reasonable assurance that payroll will not be cut when new ownership takes over, and there is a possibility that Liberty will loosen the purse strings a just a bit. That could certainly affect our ability to keep Andruw.
I’m sure the Braves are operating almost under the assumption that they’ll be unable to re-sign Andruw (as they should). But that’s no foregone conclusion. I won’t hazard a guess on the odds of Andruw returning, but I think the Braves have a better than 50/50 chance of re-signing Smoltz.
By TheNorthernJackaloperadiopersonalitygonehaywire_rrsavant
December 18, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Way to waffle Ron…
By Richard Cory
December 18, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
Stinky, you really think we can get Carl Crawford???
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
dougp
Yates pitched 46 innings for the Mets in 04. Not very well, I might add.
By Porkins
December 18, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
That is great news about Skip and Pete. I was under the impression that Skip was planning to retire pretty soon, so I couldn’t be happier knowing that we’ll be getting his bone-dry humor for another 3 seasons. Now if only I could figure out how to sync up the radio with the TV broadcasts (without buying one of those expensive devices)…
By ernesto
December 18, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
Grinch - heard Pratt’s blog was a bit slow, but it worked well with pitchers.
Okay, yours was better.
Seriously, even if we make no more moves, getting rid of dead roster weight like Pratt, Sosa, and Jordan I think makes us a better team already.
By KC
December 18, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah:
I think your point is a good one. There are a few other guys that could wind up in the mix… but I just don’t know where they’d fit.
I think there are at least 5 relievers that are sure bets to be on the opening day 25 man roster next season: Wickman, Soriano, Yates, McBride, Villarreal. And I think it is highly likely that Paronto and Boyer will be there. So… there’s really no room left.
But there are several guys that may have a chance to win a job next season (though I’m not sure where):
You mentioned Reitsma. Most Atlanta fans freak out at the mere mention of his name, but I don’t think there’s any reason to fear him. It’s not like last year when they had to keep running him out there all the time because there were no other options. IF (and it’s a longshot) Reistma makes the team this year, he will have to earn it. I mean really earn it. If he does that… more power to him.
Also, of course the Braves didn’t sign Tanyon Sturtze without the hope that he’ll make the team, so he’ll get every opportunity to do so. Joey Devine is certainly a possibility if he impresses this spring. Also, I wouldn’t mind seeing a little more of Phil Stockman. He’s shown a lot of promise.
There are a number of guys who could compete for a spot, but again, I just don’t see any room. Nice problem to have though, huh?
By Lew
December 18, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
Who says this isn’t a music site? Is the discusssion of music not a prevelant theme? Why should it not be? We manage to discuss plenty of baseball when there’s any to discuss. Grinch-You can’t win the Wurlitzer. You’re on the Wurlitzer Selection Committee and are not eligible. That was a good screenplay, though, even if it was a terrifying scenario. In my post, that was supposed to be hashed and rehashed. It’s amazing how hard it is to spell when your trying to keep the potatoes lit.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this
It wouldn’t surprise me if Andruw had Boras realize that Boras works for Andruw and not vice-versa. Did Andruw get a bad deal when he opted to stay in Atlanta last time? No.
Matter of fact, he’s not far off from getting what the higher-paid guys get now anyohw, and let’s consider that was a few years ago, and salaries are escalating.
Now, if Boras has all the control he seeks in those negotiations, then yeah, Andruw’s outta here; but I’m betting that a year in the dugout with Bobby Cox, Chipper and Smoltz in his ear will have him thinking long and hard about sticking around.
Question is, will JS have to do one of those “can’t make an offer if it means we’re over the $80 million threshold, even temporarily” maneuvers?
Or heck, maybe the organization kept the Braves’ salaries at $80 million again this season with the belief that they’ll up it to $85-90 to keep Andruw after this season. Truth be told, I think the organization is capable of putting an $80 million World Championship contender on the field this season, with maybe one more move (get Baldelli for Davies and a prospect or two).
After this season, Andruw will cost more, and that means we should be able to be just as competitive, maybe at $85-90 million per season to do it.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
Ran over a jackalope once before…
..died on impact.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
Lew…. scroll the page allllllll the way up to the top of the page….
…where it says BravesBlog.
By Mitchie-san
December 18, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
Grinch, that joke about Pratt made me almost spit out my soda.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
not many people know that, grinch. grinch continues to amaze. yes, the blackberry is unique among the berries for its ability to retain heat. did you know that illustrious general john b gordon (csa) carried blackberries in his boots to keep his feet warm in the winter? (where is matthew when we need him? gen. gordon is the general who touched sword to toe at apppomatox.) actually, he was trying to tell general chamberlain (usa) that he had berries in his boot and needed to change socks. lew, will be having a southern feast tonight and it is good that he will be thinking about being in georgia - home of the braves. now, dob says he will talk no more of stinky and this journalist is going to try to ignore stinky as well and see what happens … now, baseball … if there are seven pitchers in the bullpen and only a half-dozen krispy kremes …
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
KC
Again, you make great points on the numbers game, and on Reitsma. Also, Stockman was lights out at Richmond before the hamstring problem.
Here is my take on roster spaces: If you need 1 closer and 2 set up men, then plan on 3 total. If you need another 3 bullpen bodies (beyond the top three), then you plan on 4 or 5 to get those jobs. So, on my “Braves ‘07” spreadsheet, I plan for a roster size of 30-32, then figure on injuries depleting that number by 3-4 and just plain old tough luck for the last few guys who are either packaged for a prospect or send to Richmond. So, that’s why I don’t try to figure out what to do with RP’s number 7-10. It will work itself out. Like you stated, nice problem to have.
I have NO doubts that someone will come down with an injury, so better to be prepared. That’s why I am very willing to give up LaRoche for Gonzo in Pittsburgh. (but let’s not swap him for Melky, as I think we are better off to give Blanco/Johnson a chance.
One last point, I really liked Diaz, but some guys are not meant to be 150 game players. Let’s give him a chance to prove himself, one way or the other.
Later
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts You are fighting a losing battle, my man. Why don’t you just skip the stuff you don’t want to read (that’s what I do) and enjoy the ride.
What did we do 40 years ago without a “Braves Blog”? Oops, I’m showing my age…..
By TheNorthernJackalope
December 18, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
Stinky…guess you’re part of “the clique” now!
By Glass Half Full
December 18, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Of course, the ultimate indignity is that Jorge Sosa has a World Series ring and the Barves finish the season under. 500. Damn you, George!
By Lew
December 18, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts-I have a Braves’ cd with Skip yelling Braves Win, Braves Win. Can we discuss it, or is that too close to music for you? You really should just get over it, because we ain’t gonna change. So there!
By TheNorthernJackalope
December 18, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Tuned out an amatuer radio jockey once…never heard from him again!
By MGL
December 18, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Most of you have probably read that JD Drew is going after a second physical opinion re his shoulder. It appears that the Red Sox deal is in doubt or at least he might have to take a contract with some health related get-out clauses. I don’t wish anyone ill-health, but it would be interesting if JD and super-agent Boras ended up with less money that the LA extension they nixed.
By MBATL
December 18, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
KC, great summary on the ‘pen. I copied and saved it!
Ron, so why would AJ agree to pay Boras’ top-tier prices if he’s not gonna let him negotiate the best deal? I know it happened in ‘01 but I sure wouldn’t count on it again.
I just think the ‘home town discount’ is a sucker’s bet (and an insult to the player, for that matter).
Furcal, Glavine, Maddux… they all loved ATL and Bobby, but chased the dollars.
If we hope to have AJ, or Smoltzie, for ‘08, we better plan to offer market value. And if we do that, we better plan the rest of our roster to accommodate them.
By Brendan
December 18, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
DO NOT TRADE LAROCHE!!! i dont understand why anyone in the braves front office would want to trade LaRoche, for one reason and one reason alone…Ritalin! Last season was the first time he came out with the fact that his ADD was affecting his play, and finally decided to take the medication. It’s obvious he’s extremely skilled, and once he was on the medication he turned potential into actual production!! there’s no reason to think he cant produce all year the way he did in the final months. The knock on him in past seasons was his inconsistency…having great stretches and then terrible ones (chipper jones, but with an viable excuse). But when he got on the meds, it was clear he was focused and ready to hit for massive numbers all while playing gold glove caliber first base. the braves are on the verge of having a first baseman who hits lefty, .320, 40hr, 120 rbi, plays first base better than 90% of the guys out there, who is entering the prime of his career, and will make less than 5mil next year!!! why trade away a proven superstar just to try and bring up another unproven one…we are looking for steps forward not backward damnit!
By BlogLandSecurity
December 18, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts—No one likes you, I don’t like, Lew doesn’t like you, jimmy shidtz doesn’t like you, Grinch doesn’t like you, your own wife & kids don’t like you, DOB doesn’t like you, Hell! if TheSouthernJackAss were still here, he certainly doesn’t like you—get it?—leave!
By tim
December 18, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
BE GRATEFUL THAT YOU CAN GET ANYBODY FOR THIS WASTE OF SPACE. HE HAD A CAREER YEAR WHICH HE WILL NEVER COME CLOSE TO DUPLICATING. HE IS A 240-250 HITTER AT BEST WHO ON AVG WILL POP OUT 15-25 HRS WITH ABOUT 60-70 RBIS. WHEN HE RUNS THEY TIME HIM WITH A SUN DIAL. ALL THIS IS ASSUMING HE REMEMBERS THAT HE IS IN A GAME. TRADE HIM NOW DO NOT WAIT TAKE PROSPECTS ANYTHING STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS WARM
By KC
December 18, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah:
BTW: I’m guessing you live in Utah. I’m not sure why, but that’s what my gut tells me. =) How did you become a Braves fan? TBS? Or did you live around here at one time?
Yeah, in the bullpen… I think we’ve got all 7 spots nearly locked (barring something unexpected), with at least 3-4 more strong candidates for a bullpen job. VERY nice problem to have… especially after suffering through most of last year with that nightmarish pen.
By berigan
December 18, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
Does it worrry folks that Soriano is pitching winter ball? I’m surprised he is, being that he is so good. I know he was hit on the ol’ noggin, but still, if he tears something now……
By KC
December 18, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
Actually, after looking at Sturte’s career stats (career ERA over 5.00), and his age, 36 (didn’t realize he was that old)… I’m not really sure why the Braves signed him.
The Braves must see some unrealized potential in this guy, and of course they signed him for next to nothing (relatively speaking of course)… so it’s probably just a stab in the dark to see if they could get lucky and find a diamond in the ruff. But I kind of doubt that Sturtze will ever make the team, quite frankly. As stated previously… Atlanta’s already set 1-7 in the pen.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
I’d be willing to bet if Dave started a music blog in addition to this one, that’s where you’d have to go 90% of the time at night and on weekends to ask him baseball questions. Y’all must not hang out on the AJC’s other blogs much. How often do you see Bradley pop his nose up at three in the morning to give you a new tidbit of info about sports or anything else? Never. Dave doesn’t have to do squat with this blog beyond type a paragraph out once a week or so and then go on about his business. Is that what you really want? I doubt he’d be on 18 hrs. a day to keep saying “No, we’re NOT going to trade for Crawford” every 20 minutes. Whatever.
Jimmy, does Red Goose make a baseball cleat with a blackberry lining? This might help Chipper out. Gooseberry cleats? Oh, the pectinity!
Lew, please confine your posts to baseball related topics, thankyouverymuch.
Ernesto, agreed; addition by subtraction will make a bigger difference than many realize.
By rivers
December 18, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
DOB-you need to check out Jonathan Byrd. He has a few cd’s out he won the folk singer song writer competition (I believe in 2003) in Nashville. I might have the name wrong of the competition but it is the same one that the likes of Willie Nelson and Lyle Lovett one. Check him out I promise you will not be let down. His best cd is called “sea and the sky” with special guest Dromedary.
By Billy (TBFnB)
December 18, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
Aj close to 700 HR’s…he beat himself up too much early in his career to reach that mark…close to 600…sure…677…I dont think so….as much as I love him, when he regress because of the pounding, its going to be a nose dive.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this
Sorry, Ron; posted that last one before all the piling on occured. No hard feelings; it’s a free blog.
If there were only six Krispy Kremes in the dugout, Sturtze might be accidentally consumed if he sat too close to one. Maybe that’s what the mgt. was anticipating when assembling so many relief pitchers.
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
DOB, you have mail.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Wayne in Utah. See? It ain’t just me.
Lew…. “so there?” Nice.
Jacaklope aka SJA aka Blogland aka GET A LIFE, MAN… … seriously, roll your I’m So Fat & Lazy I Ride A Scooter Down the Sidewalk When My Dauschund Needs To Be Taken For a Walk outside for some fresh air or something.
You’re all over this blog 24/7/365, dude. Are you one of those ppl we see on tabloid talk shows that firemen have to knock walls down to get you outta your house to save your miserable existence, or what?
And now, a word from people talking about baseball….
KC… I’m not saying the Braves will get a “hometown” discount per se, from Andruw, this go-round, nor do I think they should necessarily work that angle. But if the Braves are in the same vicinity as other teams, offer-wise, they should have the decided advantage of being Andruw’s home for so long. I just don’t believe the Braves have to out-bid everybody else to keep him; they just have to offer him a worthy contract. I think they will, and I think he’ll take it.
By berigan
December 18, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
DOB, have I missed talk here about youtube??? Have you checked it out much??? I am forever remembering some obscure/semi-obscure 80’s artists(Lene Lovich, Non Mickey singing Toni Basil-with much Devo influence) amazing stuff! Hey, they even have a clip of your all time fav band!;)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig_VHY9meOU Though to be fair, I always liked this song….
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
KC FYI: Born and raised in upstate SC. Was a Braves fan from ‘66. Saw Bob Gibson throw a gem against us around 67 or 68. So, I left SC in ‘74, went off to the Air Force. Since then, I have lived in CA, TX, IL, SC (twice for 7 total years) and now Utah for almost 5 years. I love the Braves, my momma in SC, and the west; where I plan to stay. Don’t get much time to blog, as I cover a lot a huge sales territory in Utah, Idaho, Nevada, and Wyoming. BUT, I still love the Braves. My fav players as a kid were Clete Boyer and Phil Neikro. How many bloggers even know Boyer played for us for a few years??
Thanks for asking.
By KC
December 18, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
MBATL, thanks. Here it is again if anyone missed it.
thathouguy: “FIX THE BULLPEN FIRST!!!! After suffering through last season, that should be our first priority”
thathouguy, the bullpen was in fact the Braves’ top priority, and now with the addition of Soriano the bullpen is, for the most part, fixed. That’s not to say that it couldn’t be further improved… but it’s a million miles away from where they started last season. You have to keep in mind that the bullpen was already muchMUCHbetter at the end of the season than it was most of the way through the year.
Remember that guys like Macay McBride, and Tyler Yates were rookies who were cast into the fire out of necessity. It took them a while to acclimate to pitching at this level. The good news is that they did begin to grow into big league pitchers right before our eyes late in the season.
Here’s how the bullpen shapes up right now:
• Bob Wickman: First of all, it’s something of a well kept secret that Bob Wickman has been one of the most dominant closers in baseball over the past two seasons. Yes… “dominant”. You don’t have to throw 98 to be dominant, and Wickman has been exactly that, converting 78 of 87 save opportunities through 05 and 06 (a ratio almost identical to those of Rivera and Wagner)… not to mention a His 2.56 ERA over the past two seasons.
• Rafel Soriano is one of the best setup men in baseball (2.25 ERA, and a better than 3-1 SO/BB ratio), so we’ve got the 8th inning covered now as well.
• Macay McBride: posted an ERA of under 2.00 from July 16th on (and was lights out against left handed hitters all season long).
• Tyler Yates: has closer’s stuff, and matured as his rookie season went along, posting a 2.70 ERA as the Braves setup man in September.
• Chad Paronto: Ground ball specialist… finished the year with a very respectable 3.19 ERA. He’ll probably be used situationally this year when the Braves need a double-play.
• O.Villarreal seemed to adjust quite nicely to the long-relief role. After 4 fill-in starts in late-august/early September, Villarreal made 7 relief appearances to close the season, going 14 innings and allowing no earned runs (or unearned for that matter either). This was his first full season back off of a major surgery (Tommy John?… can’t remember). By the end of the season, he looked to be regaining the form that helped him go 10-7, with a 2.57 ERA in 86 appearances (yes 86!) for the D-backs in his 2003 rookie season.
• Blaine Boyer: They’ll also be getting Boyer back, who as you probably know, missed pretty much all of this season due to injury. But his stuff and his solid 2005 performance caused the Braves to look at him as a possible future closer (05’: 4-2, 3.11 ERA, and a 2-1 SO/BB ratio).
By Obiwankobe
December 18, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
DOB you ever hear of “The Hold Steady”?
By KC
December 18, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
MBATL:
Thanks man. Hey… good point on hometown discounts. We certainly can’t count on them. I don’t know if we’ll get one (at least anything significant) from Andruw. However, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that we’ll get some kind of discount from Smoltz. The question is… how much of a discount?
If he pitches as well this year as he has the past couple of seasons, he could get a one year 15-17 million offer somewhere, or a 2 year deal for slightly less per season. I’m hoping Atlanta will be ready to pony up with an offer at least in the 13 million range for Smoltz… but we’ll have to see. I personally think that would be enough to keep him here.
It’s difficult to speculate when we don’t know what Atlanta’s payroll will be after next year. While we can be reasonably assured that Liberty has no reason to further slash payroll… there’s a distinct possibility that they will allow slightly more spending. Again, we’ll just have to wait and see (and hope).
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
Of course, the $750,000 they used to sign him could’ve bought plenty more Krispy Kremes…nope, I still don’t know what they were thinking.
Billy, power hitters often can still jack ‘em out late in the career; it’s the wheels that fall apart. I’m sure his projection included 3-5 years of DH-ing in his late 30’s-early 40’s.
By ncscoots
December 18, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
KC, don’t believe I would want to go into the season with one lefty in the pen, so I think you’re gonna have to make room for one somewhere in your pen lineup. McBride is pretty good, but I think you’re gonna need another situational lefty in there somewhere.
By KC
December 18, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
KC IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 4:38 POST
I did not re-post that again. That was, I assume, the same person who kept re-posting all my stuff the other day under my name.
dude, whoever you are… please get a life.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Listen, I gave my props to DOB, and have done so in the past, as well.
No, I don’t wanna have the guy have to say again why the D-Rays aren’t offering Crawford to the knuckle-draggin’ types that won’t freakin’ get it. And yeah, Bradley, Terrence (the guy writes his crap then runs from the critics…almost never replies when he’s avalanched with dissent -which is almost always), Guy C., et al, tend to not “participate” the way DOB does. That much is valid.
But I’ve given DOB his props on alllll these things, before. My oone dissenting opinion is in the volume of music brought up here, and of course, you see how childish some folks can get about it.
Much as I’d like to see DOB be given a music blog, too, what I’d really like to see is the ajc.com folks be able to block the pizza-crust-laden dorks who have nothing better to do than sit here and hurl insults between collecting their unemployment and watching Maury.
By Jim
December 18, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
Multiple choice question for DOB (or anyone else with an opinion). Select all choices that apply.
The Braves are entertaining trade possibilities for Adam LaRoche because:
a) They need pitching/leadoff help and he is the best bargaining chip they have.
b) They think that Thorman has the better long-term future potential and need to make a place for him.
c) They think that LaRoche over-achieved in the 2nd half of 2006 and want to trade him while his value is at its highest.
d) They want to reduce payroll at a position where they think they are adequately covered and use the extra money to create more flexibility.
e) all of the above
By KC
December 18, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
nscoots:
Yeah, I agree that if they can get a quality left… they will do so, and will just have to make room some how. I just can’t imagine who the would squeeze out. Unless, again, they decdide to give Villarreal a crack at the 5th starter’s job right off the bat.
By journalist jimmy smtih
December 18, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
some will remember this journalist was among the first on this blog to recognize the tremendous upside of chad parontoe - chad throws a sinker much like roger mcdowell once threw. when chad’s sinker sinks he is excellent for inducing ground ball outs. jimmysmiththinks chad parontoe will be an important cog in this year’s bullpen. as bobby hangs additional pitching responsibility around parontoes’ neck … wait! this is not possible! oh, the humanity!
By Drew
December 18, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
Good info KC. I definitely agree with you that the bullpen problem is solved with the gained health and maturity, along with the Wickman and Soriano additions.
By KC
December 18, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Jim:
I think reasons “a” and “b” apply. I don’t think “c” is true at all, and even “D” (payroll) is not so much of an issue now. The payroll should be right about where it needs to be now.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
kdbanks, I’ve never heard of that dude. so many great songwriters who never get heard from, not overproduced and boring enough to get radio airplay in Nashville.
you wrote: “Covered two of three Hanks (1 and 3) pretty well.” What, he didn’t sing “Are you ready for some football,” too? Then he’d have had ‘em all covered.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this
This was written by a blogger, and taken alone it’s hilarious:
“You mentioned Reitsma. Most Atlanta fans freak out at the mere mention of his name, but I don’t think there’s any reason to fear him.”
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
Lew, I almost bought that remastered CD of the Allman Bros. Live at the Atlanta Pop Festival, just saw it couple days ago. How good is that, compared to say, the live Fillmore album?
Enjoy the grits and blackeyed peas, but you’ll have a tough time pretend you’re in Georgia _ at least the Georgia we’re enjoying right now. Like Indian summer here. Just incredible.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
Jim, you didn’t give an f) for none of the above.
‘Cause they don’t seem to be trading for pitching and leadoff help, if the three-way trade rumor is true.
I also don’t see how they think Thorman would step in and be as good or better on the field or batting than LaRoche was last year.
I find it hard to believe that other teams covet a guy if they, too, don’t see that last year was no fluke. His offense has progressed steadily each season, and there’s no reason to belive that a full year of his focus wouldn’t yield even higher numbers in the future.
And LaRoche is fairly inexpensive right now.
By Spider29
December 18, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
Hey Wayne, this blogger remembers Boyer playing for the Braves! What a smooth fielder. Phil Niekro is still my favorite player and he’s a nice guy too. Any more news on Giles to the Padres?
By KC
December 18, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Jim: Let me clarify my first response to your question… specifically “b”.
I think the Braves like Scott Thorman. What’s not to like? No one has looked more impressive at Richmond than he did last year in a very long time. He deserves a chance to play regularly.
Now, I wouldn’t go as far as to say the Braves think he has more potential than LaRoche has already fulfilled… but Thorman is no doubt one of the key reasons they were willing to even consider trading LaRoche.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this
Ron, just catching up on replies here. Dude, no problem whatsoever with your opinion on the blog content. No offense taken, not at all.
Gosh, can’t even imagine who that was telling you nobody likes you…
Needless to say, he was full of crap. But you know that.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this
Well I asked to be left out of your comments in return for my staying away—It’s plain that hasn’t been the case—so you ignorant As$clowns are stuck with me—deal with it, it’s a free blog as Grinch elaborated…and Ron Roberts, just who in the hell do you think you are anyhow??…nobody gives a good shi t!!!…
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this
That would make a hell of a bumper sticker; I know I’d buy one. “FEAR REITSMA.” Number one, make it so.
Jim, a) is the only one that makes sense to me, for whatever that’s worth. Thorman’s shown flashes, but that’s not something you give up a guy who’s been consistant so far for. Plus, LaRoche is a hell of a bargain at the moment. We couldn’t sign someone nearly as good to replace him for the same money.
By KC
December 18, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts: “If the three way rumor is true”
That’s a BIIIIGGGGG “if”!! I seriously doubt the validity of that rumor. It doesn’t make any sense at all.
The more credible rumor (the M.Gonzalez thing) was all about pitching. And the Angels deal was about a leadoff man and pitching (which the Angels supposedly wouldn’t give up… killing the deal). JS has been clear about his goals, and that ridiculous 3-way Yankees rumor doesn’t address anything the Braves are trying to accomplish.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this
If SJA stays away… then how does he notice if somebody’s mentioned him?
And when the ringleader of the @$$clowns is calling other folks @$$clowns… should we honk his horn or just ignore him?
Again, the ajc.com site folks should just block this malcontent’s ISP so he can spend more time debating with guys about which Disney Channel actor’s the hottest on the NAMBLA blog.
By ryan pierce
December 18, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this
what have u heard about the rumor that has our top prospects going to tamapa bay for rocco Baldelli? do u think that would be a good trade for us?
by: ryan from atlanta georgia
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this
and DOB, that cute little inference that you’ve checking IP addresses as to how many different blog names people are using doesn’t mean a damn—until you enforce only one name per blogger, don’t just point certain people as targets for “public humiliation” like you did today with ol’ stinky—because frankly I could care less if the chosen few know how many names I use!…Wurlitzer boy..
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this
Oh, I’m not saying the three-way trade scenario is worth discussing, frankly, but it’s been reported on, and this blog is (loosely) based on that rumor.
I already panned the scenario, myself, way back up in the early house of this blog, I’m just playing along with the rumor and Jim’s question.
By crimedogrules
December 18, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this
This just in…
Tensions run high as Atlanta Journal Constitution Bloggers, so desperate for news from the Braves camp, began to eat their own on Monday.
Above the noise and literary carnage only one word was heard over and over, “Crawford.”
Tampa police have been contacted and seeking the whereabouts of a local professional athlete that might have something to do with this horrific hate crime of words.
This and common household appliances that might be plotting your death tonight at 11.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this
ObiWan, saw the “Hold Steady” play at the Earl last year (they’ve since played there again, but I missed that show). What a great live band, just tons of energy and punk attitude. Got their past two albums, both really good.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
OK, now THAT was the single funniest blog in recent memory, by Crimedogrules. That made me laugh out loud sitting here in the basement blog headquarters.
By Riprock3
December 18, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this
Lol…DOB - Some of your bloggers (SJA, Stinky, et all) are almost as humerass as ones I used to read on Matt Winklejohn’s. You got some real winners.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this
Ron, I’d have to say Nick Spano, perhaps best known for his role as “Donnie Stevens” in the hit Disney Channel Original Series Even Stevens.
(thanks, Wikipedia)
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
Jim, Personal opinion on LaRoche, is that 1B is not as hard to replace as other positions, plus MAYBE LaRoche over played last year, plus he is the only real bargaining chip they have. Who else you gonna use, certainly not Frenchy, McCann and Rent-a-SS (thanks BoSox for the kickback). Also AJ and Chipper are not easily tradeable, plus your other parts are either too valuable (James, McBride), untradable (Hampton, Hudson, Smoltz) or not valuable enough to bring in anything of significance.
Your only other bargaining chips are Escobar, Salty, Harrison, Reyes, etc. So, I think the Bravos think Thorman could either be the real deal, or at least sufficient until another option comes along (Salty, KK, etc.)
By Bryan
December 18, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this
Dave, i have the atlanta pop cd and no it don’t compare to the fillmore album. I don’t really know what it is: song selection, nostalgia, or just skill level.
At the fillmore they were locked in like few other bands. At Atlanta they were good … but damn … also, i made out with my first hot girl with the first disk of that album blasting on the outdoor speakers at a wedding in St. Simon’s island, so maybe thats why i love it.
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
Standing O for CrimeDog!
By RC
December 18, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this
ESPN has a page up showing the amount spent this offseason by every team thus far.
Here is the link.
Not suprised to see the Braves at the bottom of that list, lowest among teams that actually have checks. I’d argue the net is even lower, since we have made trades to save cash and non-tendered Giles.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this
Jim, I’d say all but “b” could apply, in your multiple-choice exercise.
By br618
December 18, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this
DOB the ABB atlanta pop festival is not as good as the Fillmore, but it allows you to hear the growth of the band in a year’s time…just skip the introduction on disc 1
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
and Ron Roberts you’re just a son of a bitc h!!!…
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this
That was pretty funny. This blog has had a bit of a “That time of the month” kind of feel to it lately, has it not?
CL, my bats are out now echolocating; I can hear them. If only they had nicer houses! (hint, hint)
By Ron Roberts
December 18, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this
Dave,
Creepy, man…. just too creepy that you had that answer as quickly as you did. Ha ha.
By Lew
December 18, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts-So there is a lot nicer than other phrases I could have used. I thought it was fitting for the absurdity of the conversation.
By Lew
December 18, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this
DOB-If Fillmore is a ten, this is probably a nine. Statesboro Blues is great and there’s some nice jamming with Johnny Winter. You’ll like it. It’s warm here, too (relatively). The highs have been in the 50’s, which is like a heat wave in Vermont. Ron Roberts-I would never say I don’t like you (not that you should care). I just feel if you don’t like the music talk, then don’t pay attention. I don’t have a clue who half the bands are that people talk about here, but the music obviously means much to them. So do the Braves-or the Mets as a few of our fellow bloggers prefer, or baseball in general. Apparently we like to eat and talk about it, too. Ain’t hurting no one.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this
well, the southerndragass has endorsed dob for the wurlitzer - just when we thought sda didn’t care. dob is in the wurlitzer lead but it is a precarious lead. we will have to see some toe journalism (there is a rumor about and it must be verified or dismissed) as we did last year (before the wurlitzer was won). willard wurlitzer has confirmed discussions with chick-fil-a about naming rights for the wurlitzer. at this writing nothing has been decided but journalist warns willard wurlitzer that the chick-fil-a people will take your name off the wurlitzer (ask the peach bowl folks) and soon it will be the chick-fil-atzer. oh, the humanity! can’t say that on a blog! worse than sda! grinch, get journalist out of this -quick!
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this
Wikipedia, my foot! I KNEW it, DOB; you’re not typing from the basement, you’re typing from the closet! Not that there’s anything wrong with that…:-) (SJA, just saved you the trouble)
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this
Ron, it’s amazing what you can do with a google screen in the upper-right corner of your screen at all times, like we have on these Mac PowerBooks (I’m sure plenty of other operating systems have ‘em there, too)
Anyway, just type in Disney Channel actors, and there’s your Wikipedia entry. I swear, how easy do kids today have it when studying for book reports and other assignments in school? I mean, even in college we were still going through the damn microfiche at big library on campus. Nobody I knew was on the internet in 1983-86, when I was in college. When did the damn thing even start?
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
NOT THIS JOURNALIST’S POST! JOURNALIST DISAVOWS ALL KNOWLEDGE OF THE ABOVE POST! (works for stinky, and kc, and others - might as well give it a try). NO WAY! NADA!
now, baseball … if rocco baldelli comes to town what products will he endorse? delta has francoeur. haim habib has smoltz. who will sign rocco baldelli for endorsements?
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
Grinch, that was good. But half the fun of typing in that name was guessing the response time from certain, uh, predictable individuals. You screwed up the over-under….
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this
I got your back Jimmy Smith; here goes:
Q) Why don’t women need a watch?
A) Because there’s a clock on the oven!
(Duck) How’s that? :-)
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this
OK, Grinch! I have a little free time between midnight and 6 am when I usually don’t do anything but sleep, so I’ll get right on it! :-))
Your Jordan-Cox scene was terrific!
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this
oh, carolina lady cannot be far behind … grinch, you are in for trouble now. and where is hk tonight? would like to see some stats on tonight’s blog.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 18, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
First of all, Grinch, you had me cracking up at work earlier today. I read your story about Cox and Jordan and you almost had me in tears, man. Funny stuff.
Now, its time for more of my idiotic or perhaps plausible (depending on your point of view) trade proposals.
How about the Braves offer Hudson and Salty to the Dodgers for Looney, Penny, and Billingsley? The Dodgers rotation would then feature Hudson, Schmidt, Lowe, Tomko, and Wolf. Not to bad of a rotation. The Dodgers want to get rid of Penny because of his “bad attitude”. Playing for Cox wouuld be the one thing that could get rid of said attitude. The Dodgers in getting Salty would have their replacement at 1st for Garicaparra when his contract expires in two years. The Braves would be getting two quality starters (albeit one of them [Billingsley] a young somewhat unproven starter. Looney could play LF and bat leadoff until a better option for the leadoff spot came along. The Braves then could offer Davies, Escobar and Thorman/Diaz for Baldelli. If the Rays accept, great! Baldelli can start in LF w/Looney on the bench and in 2008 Baldelli can move over to CF and Looney steps in LF. Or the Braves could flip Looney for a 2B or another lefty reliever, although I doubt it would be Gonazles. But, who knows?
Another option could be to offer Hudson and Diaz to the Cubs for Jacque Jones, Rich Hill, and Will Ohman. If the Cubs balk on Hill, the Braves could inquire about Wade Miller (?) or Sean Marshall. The Cubs further solidify their rotation, which would feature: Prior, Hudson, Zambrano, Lilly, and Marquis. The Braves get two good young arms both of whom have the potential to be great. Jones can step in and play LF and leadoff, which he can do. He leadoff quite often when he played for the Twins and had some success. The same as with the Dodger deal the Braves could offer Davies, Escobar, and Salty/Devine (preferably Devine) to the Rays for Baldelli. In this scenario, if the Rays agree, Baldelli can step in and play LF. The Braves could then shop Jones for a 2B. Perhaps hitting the Rangers up for Kinsler or the Astros for Adam Everett and a pitcher.
The main focus of both of these deals would be that it would solve the Braves current problems or at least most of them. AND by trading Hudson the Braves won’t have to worry about his impending raise next year and could conceivably free up the money to get Andruw (if he would take a backloaded contract.)
I know. I know. Pie in the sky. But, I think either of these deals could be done. Especially the Cubs because it is quite obvious they are trying to win NOW. I have a feeling that part of Sweet Lou agreeing to come there was that the Cubs would spare no expense. That was his big gripe with the Rays.
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this
Grinch! I just put a recall on your Christmas gift!
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this
Aw, man…I feel like a local detective who busts a half-dozen middle-rung coke dealers, only to be told by one of them “Hey, a*****; you just ruined an FBI undercover sting operation! Two years of this %$#&, man, and it’s all down the drain over some local loser tryin’ to get to the top of turd-mountain! You think I like these tatoos? Huh? You think my wife likes it when I come home with my eyes bulging out and smelling like smoke, whiskey and strippers? Like I WANT my kid lookin’ up to me, now?”
My bad, Dave…
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this
D’oh! It worked! Jimmy Smith, you owe me one now…
By Big O
December 18, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this
To me we should trade for Chone Figgins Casey Kotchman and Ervin Santana for Laroche and Kyle Davies and maybe a minor leager.
Lineup 07
Chone Figgins 2B Edgar Renteria SS Chipper Jones 3B Andrew Jones CF Brian McCann C Jeff Francour RF Matt Diaz LF Thorman/Kotchman 1B Pretty Solid Lineup
John Smoltz Tim Hudson Ervin Santana Kyle Davies Sosa
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this
Thanks Robert(JITB). Man, if we get Penny, Looney and Billingsley Bobby won’t even have to come up with nicknames.
CL, um…see…um…what had happened was…How’s Mom? :-)
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, If Skip and Pete are moving, what’s to become of Chip? Or has he already moved on? I catch most of the games on radio because I’m working on building a drum or fiixing a drum. Just wondering how things are going to work in ‘07.
Journalist Jimmy Smith, I would ask that you enlighten me about the wurlitzer references. Pardon my uninformed status, but I think you’ve had this going on longer than I’ve been following. You’ll remember that I brought you up to speed on the nuances and dining pleasures of In & Out Burger in SoCal. You were doubtful at first, but DOB told you it was the real deal and you relaxed some after that. I think you were also concerned as to whether Wickman was aware of this delicacy. To answer that I can only go by visual proof and travel schedule. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate me about the wurlitzer.
Sincerely your fellow DOB/Braves Blogger,
The DrummerDad
By Obiwankobe
December 18, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this
remember this???
Link:http://dankolb.blogspot.com/
By ernesto
December 18, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this
Big O- Sosa? flip the calender dude.
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this
Grinch, you think you’re in trouble with me, just wait til FBG sees it! You can forget that Red Velvet Cake!
By JC FROM UT
December 18, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
DOB: do you know if JS is in any of these talks at all that we are all speculating about? Or do you think he may have taken a little Christmas vreak from all talks?
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this
Jimmy Smith, your mission now is to befriend FBG and get her to send you (but to MY adress..wink,wink) a red velvet cake. I WILL NOT BE DENIED MY RED VELVET CAKE. I’ll go all Creepshow up in here; I mean it.
Big O, not only is Sosa gone, but if you trade Davies how do you then put him back in as the no. 4 starter? Not good, Hank.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this
DOB, Internet availability and use started catching on a little over 12 years ago. If I remember right, it was late ‘94 or ‘95. My 15 year old is working on a research paper over the holidays and doing most of his research online. He still has to have library refernces, but can reserve some of those online!! It’s pretty stinking amazing.
By AdirondackDave
December 18, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this
DOB — Couple of questions…
First, can you explain the specifics in the MLB contract that govern the exact amount of service (games, days of service, whatever) that are required to achieve eligibility for arbitration and then eligibility for free agency?
Second, could you talk about Matt Diaz’s defensive play? I know he’s no Langy out there in left but I don’t recall him embarrassing himself or the team. In fact, I seem to remember a few key assists later in the season. I’m wondering if on most teams his ‘06 work would have earn him fulltime work in ‘07? Many thanks.
By Paul
December 18, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
How much money do the Cubs have? Spending crazy amounts of money over there. Now if they only could get Prior and Wood healthy. Remember Wood a few years back in the playoffs here. Its a shame he couldnt stay healthy. Dave, do you have any of the Dead shows on tape or cd? Theres a lot of high quality dead shows being released. (Barton Hall Cornell University 1977-a classic)
By Porkulant Muffins
December 18, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this
DOB - What are the possibilities of trading LaRoche/Saltalamacchia/Davies to NYY for Melkey Cabrera and Robinson Cano? Cabrera provides a leadoff hitter, speed on the basepaths, covers real estate in the outfield (centerfield if/when needed) and has an arm. Cano established himself at second base this year; hits for average and has pop in his bat.
By Richard Cory
December 18, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this
Man, now I’m really confused. Grinch, does your 4:27pm post mean that, you don’t really think we can get Crawford, or are you saying, DOB doesn’t think so? Also does Ron Roberts’ 4:52 post mean that he doesn’t think we will get Crawford, or does he not want DOB to have to tell us that?? Baseball used to be a simple game.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this
ESPN reports Marcus is close to a deal with the Padres. They say Marcus and Brian grew up in El Cajon, Cali. Man, if you had a minor league team there, could you resist calling them the A’s? Get it? El Cajon A’s? Hee-hee!
BTW, it’s both Stalin’s and Keith Richard’s birthday today. Which one looks older?
By John Hoar
December 18, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this
Another question-I keep seeing everyone’s guess as to the seven spot bull-pen. But, no one is mentioning Lance Cormier, and I thought he did a pretty decent job last year even with a 4.89 ERA. There was injury involved and when he came back there was one game with 10Ks and another with six. There were times when he looked pretty good in the starting role, and if healthy certainly very good potential. Is he not being considered in the bull-pen? I scanned everything I could and he is not a free agent and as far as I can tell has not been released, non-tendered, sold to Richmond, or traded. What is the word. “bad toes?”
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
drummerdad, this journalist is happy to respond. last year was a bad year for dob - sick horse, ex-wife, (no particluar order here, mind you), stinky and sda, among other distractions. to top it all off, mike luckovich of the ajc won the pulitzer prize (second pulitzer for mike) and dob was chagrined (not really chagrined but can’t use other word). at that time, this journalist attempted to contact the pulitzer prize people to see if we could get grumpy dob a pulitzer of his own. they were not cordial - hangups, threats, that sort of thing. somehow, a confused baby seal accidently called the wurlitzer people for jimmy smith and dialogue was begun with a mr. willard wurlitzer. there was some confusion at first and dob was placed on their mailing list. again a call was made to willard wurlitzer and willard wurlitzer was asked whether the wurlitzer company would underwrite a wurlitzer award for writing worthiness. (also, while these discussions were taking place, attempts were made to buy the luckovich pulitzer on e-bay but the dob bloggers’ bid was not successful.) finally, after mailing pie, butter pecan ice cream, barbecue, cornbread, banana pudding, and a black diamond watermelon, willard wurlitzer relented and agreed to offer a wurlitzer prize. a panel of wurlitzer judges was assembled and a professional artist in vermont was retained for a suitable wurlitzer rendering. earlier this year dob was named wurlitzer winner (in a squeaker) - a grand presentation was made - and now dob must defend the title in 2007. journalist hopes that this explanation has been helpful. some things have been left out to protect the innocent. lew can provide more details.
By Porkulant Muffins
December 18, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this
Cut my 07:19 PM post off mid-sentence… If NYY will not deal, go to LAA for Figgins and Kotchman. I do not think LAA will give up Figgins/Kotchman for LaRoche. They will probably want at least Saltalamacchia and perhaps another prospect (Escobar) thrown in. Figgins is established, bats leadoff, hits for average, has lots of speed and can play every position except catcher, pitcher and first. Kotchman will be a fixture at first base in 2008.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this
Adirdondack, three years of service for arbitration, six years for free agency.
Diaz was better than expected in the field, really only had a couple of costly mistakes out there. But I still don’t get the impression they’d be comfortable with him as an every-day guy.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this
JC, no, I don’t think they’ve taken a Christmas break on talks, not yet. Normally this time of year, they would have. Not this year. I still think the Cabrera thing or B. Roberts could happen, for better or worse.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad, no, Skip’s not “moved on” at all. He’ll be on TV, doing baseball/Braves on TBS and also some other sports for them
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this
JJS, Thank you so much for the clear and succinct rendering on the history of the wurlitzer. My understanding in more enlightened now. DOB is certainly worth every bit of “Wurler” (pardon me, but I get tired of going for the “z” key…drummer’s hands.) Hindsight being 20/20, I feel reasonably certain that considerable effort and money for all that food could have been saved had Willard W. been sent an In & Out “Double Double” with fries and the scrumptious chocolate shake. DOB can attest. Again, thanks for taking time to educate me. you da man, or journalist.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this
El Cajon A’s … love it.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this
Richard Cory, all four are correct. Unless, of course, we try a different combination of prospects…I mean who knows? Surely they WANT to take our scrubs and give us their best player, right? I mean, they’d be stupid not to. Just ask Shaun.
Y’all, it won’t be long now. I can hear Hank II warmin’ up the gee-tar.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 18, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe I haven’t been called an idiot or a “dreamer” yet for my proposed trades involving Hudson. Are they that outlandish or has everyone not let it sink in yet?
By TRocks
December 18, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this
Hey Guys.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this
not saying dob couldn’t win a pulitzer on his own - just that willard wurlitzer has been very good to work with if you know what journalist means (wink, wink). besides, some on the blog do not know the difference in these awards. if dob receives a second wurlitzer he will have two more wurlitzers than luckovich and dob can rub it in to luckovich who has only the pulitzers to show for his efforts.
By Mitchie-san
December 18, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this
UGH. I am sick of seeing the names Chone, Kotchman, Baldelli and Melky. Blah blah blah. I really hope some of them get here. Sorry, I am just frustrated.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this
Robert, sounds good to me. The question is would the other teams go for it? Seems to me like we’d be getting an awful lot more back than we’d be giving (which of course is the idea); how gulliable are they?
Drummerdad, watching a 1979 live version of “Kashmir” on YouTube (Shout-out, Berigan!); Bonham’s the man.
By Mitchie-san
December 18, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this
well its 10:30am in Japan. After working all night, I am off to bed. Hopefully I will have some good news tonight when I wake up! Ya’ll have a good day!
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 08:28 PM | Link to this
Blogger:…Term used to describe anyone with enough time or narcissism to document every tedious bit of minutia filling their uneventful lives. Possibly the most annoying thing about bloggers is the sense of self-importance they get after even the most modest of publicity. Sometimes it takes as little as a referral on a more popular blogger’s website to set the lesser blogger’s ego into orbit.
Then God forbid a blogger gets mentioned in the media. If you thought it was impossible for certain bloggers to get more pious than they were, wait until you see the shi t storm of self-righteous save-the-world bullshi t after any media attention. Suddenly the boring, mild-mannered blogger you once knew will turn into Mother Theresa, and will single handedly take it upon himself to end world hunger with his stupid links to band websites and other smug blogger dipshi ts…
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
December 18, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this
I’m at the point now where I just hope for something everyday to happen. The inability to not make a significant move to improve this team beyond getting Soriano and Sturtze is killing me as a fan. I didn’t realize how bad the money thing was until I started reading the talk of LaRouche possible being dealt. I not a LaRouce fan at all but I at least acknowledge that he had a pretty good season. He wasn’t as clutch as I would like, and he is the ultimate rally killer but at least his numbers were respectable. I’m not against trading him in the right deal but, I remember in years past, this wouldn’t even be discussed.
I know JS is supposed to be this great GM but I’ve seen great players leave here and perform at high caliber levels on his watch(Dye, Cameron,Schimidt,Furcal,Byrd,Nick Green) just to name a few.
I’m of the believe that if LaRouche is traded then the Angels present the best deal. I like Figgins and I am cool with at leat getting Kotchman back. I know there are still holes in the rotation stil but I would sign Tony Armas Jr. as a 4th or 5th starter. I like Prado, and love Orr’s hustle, I just realize that in the postseason, our inability to manufacture runs holds us prisoner to 3R HR.
Starting 5 Smoltz James (Armas) Hampton Davies
Lineup:
(2b)Prado or Figgins (SS)Renteria (3B)C.Jones (barring injury) or Aybar (CF)A.Jones (for the last year) (C)B.McCann & Pena (RF)Frenchy (LF)Diaz (1B)Thorman or Kotchman
By Lew
December 18, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this
DrummerDad- It is my understanding that DOB’s Wurlitzer Prize Package included dinner for two at Sizzler and the Complete Works Of Zamfir and His Pan Flute on CD. Not sure whether or not dessert was included. I believe that this year’s prize package may include a copy of the Chick Fil A Cow Calendar, but must check availability. I also believe Yellow Clown Shoes were mentioned.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this
Grinch, Bonzo had incredible touch. I hear guys play that have chops, but he had this ability to draw sound out of the drums. I had this teacher in college who was widely known and respected. He once went to a “percussionist’s symposium” at Northwestern University. Sounds like something for “long hair” (classical) musicians doesn’t it? Bonham was there and my teacher said that he blew everybody away with these pieces he did for timpani.
How’s the patio?
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this
Blogger:…If minds had anuses, blogging would be what your mind would do when it had to take a dump…
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this
Lew, Thanks for the update. Zamfir huh. Amazing. But it’s not right if they don’t include the Ginsu knives too. Appalling how cheap people can be these days.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this
Blogged:…What you call any trivial or largely inconsequential topic once bloggers have processed through every tired detail. For more on this, look into:…any minor sports blog…
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this
DrummerDad, what did you think of Sandy (Nelson?) - can’t positively remember the last name - but enjoyed an album of his I once had.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 08:49 PM | Link to this
TSJA, Obviously you’re referring to the rest of us in the room. You seem to have insight on human nature. Tell me what your mind comes up with.
By journalist jimmy smith
December 18, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this
truly a prize worthy of the recipient.
also, all-time best sda blogs (cataloged and referenced) along with a packet of tub scrub from journalist bob’s tub floor. and where is journalist bob? was it the bird flu? now, baseball … tim hudson is reported to be conditioning himself for more 6-inning games in 2007. this is done with large rubber bands and resistance. more on this later.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this
TSJA, I’m reasonably certain that your description will be profuse, so I’m going to do some office work and check back on you later. later.
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this
Also, DrummerDad, don’t let Lew kid you! He did an absolutely stunning portrait of Johnny Cash! See if he’ll send you a link to see it. It’s fantastic! So the Wurlitzer really does have a valuable prize! :-)
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this
Blogosphere:…The “blogosphere” is the new buzz word that has replaced “information super highway.” It’s what idiots like to call a collection of “blogs,” otherwise known as a “tragedy”…
Blogomania:…Like all other manias, except relating to the infatuation of blogs. It’s one step above the more caustic phrase “blog-o-rama.” Thankfully the latter hasn’t caught on to the extent of it’s brethren…
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this
Blogshare:…An imaginary share of a blog’s worth, which is ironic, since most blogs have an imaginary share of readers…
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this
Well, how ‘bout that! SJA has defined himself!
By Earl
December 18, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this
I doubt Schuerholz would make a three way trade. Has he ever even made one before? I still think that they need to hang on to Laroche, especially if you saw his second half, I don’t think Thorman’s the answer at first, he has a hitch in his swing and strikes out too much, and isn’t as good defensively. I could live with him being traded for Roberts, but not for Cabrera, no way Schuerholz would let that happen. If they’re looking for a lefthanded bat to play first and the outfield to replace Ward, how about our old friend Ryan Klesko? He’s a free agent and could probably be had cheap.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this
Blogstorm:…A fancy phrase beat writers like to use any time they think there’s an abnormal amount of posts on one of their blogs regarding any particular topic. Of course, they fail to consider any amount of posting to a blog is abnormal since most people who are well adjusted usually have better things to do, i.e., work, sex, etc…
By kinley
December 18, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this
Big O: I would also like to see the Santana/Figgins/Kotchman trade. But the Angels won’t do it. It’s not like Schuerholz is the one who nixed it.
Hey, I’d like to have Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, but you have to remember that other teams don’t exist to make the Braves better.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this
Blogging Community:…Losers, goths, bedwetters, and journalism dropouts…Careful there CL—wouldn’t want you to appear unladylike—again…
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this
G’night, Mitchie-san. I, too, share your frustration.
Drummerdad, I agree. Bonham cannot be fully appreciated without a proper system (I did not have the priviledge of seeing him live…alas). And by proper system, I don’t necc. mean 3000 watts through 32” speakers…well, I’m sure you know exactly what I mean. As for the patio, it’s now taken on an L-shape and encompasses a new, smaller, more sociable fire-pit. If I’m not careful in its progression, I may not have much grass to mow next year.
Lew, JimmySmith has seriously damaged Wurlitzer relations with Chik-fil-a after his ill-considered earlier post. I would not count on the cow calender as a sure thing at this point. Perhaps a 4-pack of “Victor” mouse-traps? Small size, of course.
Good game on tonight. Booger McFarland recovered a fumble; how often does one have occasion to use that sentence?
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, Thanks for that point in a dignigied direction.
Lew, I’d love to see the portrait that the lovely lady speaks so highly of. SJA, Would you please tell me the definition of the word “twaddle”? And would you agree that by your own definition, “blog-o-rama” and “stinky” would be synonomous?
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this
Blogebrity:…Wow, guess what this one stands for? Too easy. Hey, even you clowns can do it: take a blogger who’s a chef, and you get: BLEF. A blogger who’s a dentist? BENTIST. A female blogger with an itch? You guessed it: BITC H…
By Nathan
December 18, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this
Earl, if I’m remembering correctly, the Hampton trade was a 3 team trade. Hampton technically went from the Rockies to the Marlins to the Braces. But you’re right, it doesn’t seems like JS rarely makes a 3 team trade. Sure hope he doesn’t make this one.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, The previous post was supposed to read “dignified” direction. sorry.
By TheTEFLONSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this
Well that should be enough tutelage for y’all for now—but not to worry, there’s plenty more where that came from—later friends & pals o’ mine!…
By Peter Brawley
December 18, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this
Laroche for who!? Have a look at the Sagarin ratings for 2006 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nlb06.htm). Adam is on a par with Delgado and Andruw. This trade proposal is barking mad.
By TheTEFLONSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad—“blog-o-rama” and “stinky” are no longer synonomous for stinky has now joined the “evil clique”—“twaddle” pretty much defines the content of your many posts…
By Patrick
December 18, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I honestly hate the thought of trading LaRoche, not only because he is so good now but because we put up with him for so long when he was really struggling and now he puts it all together and it seems the Braves can’t wait to unload him. That really ticks me off…and the players they are talking about getting in return make me sick when compared to Adam’s value to the team
By Lew
December 18, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this
DrummerDad-Send an email address to lewhartman@comcast.net
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this
By TheSouthernJackAss December 16, 2006 01:35 PM
By TheSouthernJagAss December 16, 2006 01:46 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 16, 2006 02:28 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 16, 2006 03:28 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 16, 2006 05:13 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 16, 2006 06:09 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 16, 2006 06:14 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 16, 2006 06:29 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 17, 200607:01PM
“Well, an early Christmas present for all, I will never make another post on any AJC blog.”
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 05:19 PM By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 05:31 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 05:50 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 08:28 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 08:38 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 08:44 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 08:54 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 09:01 PM
By TheSouthernJackAss December 18, 2006 09:12 PM “….most people who are well adjusted usually have better things to do,”
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 09:47 PM | Link to this
Good game going on. Man, the Colts are soft up the middle; no way they make the big game (not that Cincy will, either). And apparently, judging by the crowd at the RCA dome, most women in Indiana are average to moderately attractive natural blondes with no makeup. Hmm. That was also my experience while driving through said territory.
By Lew
December 18, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this
Ma’am-Well adjusted and the Jacka$$ are oxymorons.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this
Stink-O-Rama, What would you have all of us in here do to reach the level that you’re on? Or is that impossible?
By TheTEFLONSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this
Well that certainly was a wise use of the “C Ladies” valuable time…You’re about to get your feelings hurt again CL—then all the big, blog “he-men” can once again rush to your defense…
By TheTEFLONSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this
Lew—You’re just a plain “moron”…
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this
:-)) True enough, Lew! As I said previously, Stinky (posing as SJA thiese last few days) has defined himself for all to see.
DrummerDad, did you see my question about Sandy Nelson? Nothing important - his was the only drum album I ever had. Really enjoyed it.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
Lew, Thanks. Looking forward to it. I’ll send it along.
By TheTEFLONSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad—If I told you to kiss my A$$—You would need a stepladder to reach my “level”…
By james
December 18, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this
Has anybody thought about trading for the twins Luis Castillo? I bet the braves could form a deal around Davies sinice the twins need to replace Liriano. They also might be interested in Escobar.
By TheTEFLONSouthernJackAss
December 18, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
Just thought of something interesting—I make a few observations as to the definition of bloggers and a few of their terms—and immediately some of you get all shook up and seem to take it personally and then attack me —again—Damn! I must have struck a few nerves there, oh well, if the shoe fits…
By Drew
December 18, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this
I’m really not worried about these trade rumors at all. As someone said earlier, Braves rumors never seem to be true. Shuerholtz doesn’t let his rumors leak. While there may be some truth to the players involved, LaRoche will not be traded straight up for Roberts or Cabrera. Cabrera and Proctor would definitely make sense from a Braves perspective. I’m not big on Jose Castillo and he doesn’t fill the leadoff need, but Cabrera and Castillo makes some sense as does Castillo and Gonzalez.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this
Lew, Sent you the e-mail and a predictable picture as well. Thanks again.
By Vol
December 18, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
Lifted from ESPN - spend by team this offseason. Amazing - we are last among teams that spent $1 or more.
Updated: December 18, 2006 New Team Dollars Chicago Cubs $294,550,000 Boston $166,100,000 LA Dodgers $126,950,000 Houston $112,500,000 San Francisco $80,600,000 LA Angels $69,750,000 Kansas City $60,000,000 Texas $58,750,000 Baltimore $56,400,000 St. Louis $41,150,000 New Team Dollars NY Mets $40,650,000 NY Yankees $39,000,000 Seattle $30,500,000 Philadelphia $29,950,000 Toronto $26,870,000 Cincinnati $24,500,000 Cleveland $20,900,000 Oakland $14,000,000 San Diego $12,050,000 Tampa Bay $7,700,000 New Team Dollars Detroit $6,500,000 Colorado $6,100,000 Milwaukee $6,000,000 Chicago Sox $3,650,000 Minnesota $1,500,000 Atlanta $750,000 Washington $0 Florida $0 Arizona $0 Pittsburgh $0
By Maine Braves Fan
December 18, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this
I would love the angels deal. I wish we would make the deal. I really think that would be a key trade in our off season. When June comes around and Laroche is Lasuckin we will wish that we had traded him in the offseason. So lets get the angels on the phone and make this deal. ALL I WANT FOR X-MAS IS A GOOD SOLID LINEUP. AND STRONG PITCHING.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this
Goths? Like Nick Cave, Peter Murphy? Which ones do we have on the blogosphere-o-rama tonight? Very cool.
By David O'Brien
December 18, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this
Two graphs from the wire story on Giles to San Diego:
But Giles was plagued by injuries and clearly uncomfortable when the Braves moved him into the leadoff spot for 2006, seeking a replacement for Rafael Furcal….
The Padres could ask Marcus Giles to bat leadoff to replace Dave Roberts, who left as a free agent and signed an $18 million, three-year deal with San Francisco.
SURE, WHY NOT?
By Troy
December 18, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this
DOB- I know I asked this before and don’t know if you gave an answer, sorry if you did, What about Jerome Williams? Also do you see the Braves looking for another SP, if so would it probably be through a trade or maybe free agency?
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, Sandy Nelson marked an era with that album. I don’t have a copy of it, wish I did. I did get to meet Steve Gadd (50 ways to leave your lover) last summer and get a picture with him and both of my sons. I’ve been listening to and learning from that guy since I was 17. That was a while back!! Ha!!!
On the Braves front: I’d really like to see us get Mike Gonzalez from the Pirates. I’d hate to give up LaRoche, but Gonzalez was lights out on us when he was here last summer and I think it was the same when we went to Pittsburg.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this
That is a trip, ain’t it? Lure a guy to your team with the improved “comfort level” as your main bargaining piece, then immediately ask him to do something he’s clearly uncomfortable (and extremely ill-suited for) doing. Brilliant! Drink Guiness responsibly.
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this
Yeah, DrummerDad, I’d really love to have that album again. Lost it in a fire.
I agree about Gonzalez. I hope the rumors of the trades sending him to NYY are false. They already have everybody else.
I’ve always liked Adam and would hate to see him go. But I don’t know if I have enough confidence in the current ‘pen or not.
BTW, do you remember the name of that album?
By page hit
December 18, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this
Skip + Pete = glue factory…
By Dj
December 18, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this
DOB
I agree Cabrerra is not enough in return. How about the Yankees throw in Humberto Sanchez the pitcher they received from Detroit. He has successfully pitched in AAA and soon will be major league ready. He could add depth in pitching if we choose to bring the light hitting Cabrerra to Atlanta.
By Troy
December 18, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
DOB- Nickelback is coming to Gwinnett Arena 3/16 with Breaking Benjamin I think should be a hell of a concert! What do you think of those two bands?
By Alex Moser
December 18, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this
Why not deal Adam LaRoche and C Jarrod Saltalamacchia to LAA for RHP Ervin Santana and 1B Kendry Morales. With the addition of Santana we would be able to let go of Kyle Daives or Chuck James, So then you could send Daives and a young pitcher like Matt Harrison and SS Yunel Escobar to TB for OF Rocco Baldelli (a leadoff hitter that can play center in the future and has a great contract for the braves) This would be a good package for the d-rays, two young power arms (lefty-righty and a SS) Finally all the braves would have left to do is sign another starting pitcher (say like John Thomson) to a ML-contract, so we could have a Long-Relief pitcher and somebody who could step in, in case somebody goes down to injury (which always happens)
O7 Team:
LF Rocco Baldelli R SS Edgar Renteria R 3B Chipper Jones S CF Andruw Jones R C Brian McCann L RF Jeff Francoeur R 1B Kendry Morales S 2B Willy Aybar S
Bench INF/OF Pete Orr L INF Martin Prado R C Brayan Pena S 1B/OF Scott Thurman L OF Ryan Langerhans L
S1-John Smoltz S2-Tim Hudson S3-Ervin Santana S4-Mike Hampton S5-Chuck James
CL-Bob Wickman SU-Rafael Soriano SU-Oscar Villereal MR-Macay Mcbride MR-Lance Cormier MR-Tanyon Sturtze LR-John Thomson (Yates,Poronto,Foster,Moylan,Boyer,Devine in AAA waiting for a spot)
I would consider trading Matt Diaz for a pitching prospect because we would be losing a big chunk of our minor league talent.
By Sane Jane
December 18, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this
Carolina Lady just made me laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh! Makes me proud to be in W-S, NC. (And that doesn’t happen very often)
Re. baseball: I say we keep the skinny little lug. LaRoche just feels like a Brave (sweet swing, unibrow, brain farts and all).
By flbravesgirl
December 18, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this
About that 6:26 post, Grinch….
I realize that you are totally unconcerned about being PC but that statement doesn’t even fall under “true but impolite”. Most of the women (and men, for that matter) I know don’t cook. They act like it’s some mysterious, magical ability to be able to cook or bake.
Now… jimmy is a friend already and I know if he requested anything, it would be a pie.
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this
CL, Let There Be Drums!! And, try this link: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll
You just might find something you like there!!
DD
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 18, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this
Grinch, I agree with you assessment of women in Indiana. I currently live in Indiana and totally concur.
I have always thought LaRoche was a good player and felt he would produce once he played everyday and that is exactly what happened.
Earlier, I proposed a couple of trades that could fulfill the Braves’ needs, keep LaRoche, and free up some money.
The first was to offer Hudson and Salty to the the Dodgers for Looney, Penny, and Billingsley or Biemel.
The other trade was to offer Hudson and Diaz/Thorman/Langerhans for Jacque Jones, Rich Hill, and Will Ohman.
Either trade could solve some, if not all of the Braves issues. The Braves would still be able to pursue Baldelli.
If the Dodgers play hardball and want more than Salty, the Braves then would have to consider offering LaRoche but demand that Billingsley be part of the deal. Looney and Thorman could man first which would be the same as Kotchman and Thorman.
In both the Dodgers and Cubs cases acquiring Hudson would bolster their starting staffs. In Chicago’s case it more than solidiy it. It would definitley be the best in the NL Central if not the enitre NL. The Braves would still be in good shape with Smoltz, Hampton, James, Hill, and Davies. Ohman would give the Braves the lefty out of the pen they have been wanting. Not to mention Hill would give them the good young cheap starter they want and would know that he would be a Brave for the next five years if they so desired.
The plus to either deal, especially with the Cubs, is that money would be freed up to retain Andruw and possibly get him resigned before the end of the season. He says he wants to stay. Lets make it happen.
By MEB
December 18, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this
Time magazine “Person of the Year.” YOU!!! The winners this year were anyone using or creating content on the World Wide Web.
Me thinks that Time failed to consider some of the users who create malcontent on this blog. For the rest of y’all I thank you for the finest blog on the web. DOB… thank you for the insight and dedication to all things worth abiding. GO BRAVES!!!
By Drummerdad
December 18, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this
Robert, Do you study what’s going on with other teams, or are you hearing more because you’re up that way? I think the Braves considered going after Jacque Jones a few years ago before they traded for J.D. Drew. Your scenarios sound good, but nobody has bitten on the Hudson idea. They either think he’s damaged goods and/or other teams think JS wants too much in return. I appreciate the fact that he hasn’t sold the farm.
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this
FBG, I sincerely hope you didn’t take that seriously. I had just returned from a beer run to find Jimmy helplessly scrambling for an attention-diverter (you can look back and see he actually asked for my help by name). Just thought of something randomly offensive (I know an AWFUL LOT of offensive jokes, in just about every category) and posted it. No, I’m definitely not PC. But, I’ve also done most of the cooking in just about every relationship I’ve ever been in (and all of it now, since I’m currently living alone). I’m pretty danged good at it. Unfortunately, baking is indeed a magical art to me and THEREFORE I DO NOT WISH TO GO CAKELESS.
Cue Bryan Adams: Please forgive me…I know not what I do…
By grinch
December 18, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this
hello, flabravesgirl, how are you? i am fine. i ate 12 krystals once. i regret some of my misdeeds on the blog today and am eager for some red velvet cake for my friend, journalist jimmy smith. could you please bake such a cake for journalist jimmy smith and send it to journalist jimmy smith at my address? thank you for your consideration. your friend, grinch
(grinch, best this journalist can do since flabravesgirl has always been very nice to jimmy smith and journalist cannot betray her confidence. still, grinch did take journalist’s back earlier after the unfortunate chick-fil-a post.)
oh, the humanity! NOT THIS JOURNALIST’S POST!! NO WAY!
By Stinky
December 18, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this
:-)) True enough, Lew! As I said previously, Stinky (posing as SJA thiese last few days) has defined himself for all to see.
By David O’Brien
December 18, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this
Sorry, mispelled one of your names. Nick Esasky. Not Esaske.
And the wording of my “apology” was clunky. Here it is: Stinky was right about one thing: Stinky, I was mistaken when I said you used screen names SouthernJackAss and John Rocker yesterday. You did not. Repeat, you did not. Sorry about that, pal.
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this
DrummerDad, many thanks! I recognized Teen Beat and Let There Be Drums. Guess who’s gonna be ordering! I tell you what - you can sure get some work done listening to that music!
:-))
By The Grinch
December 18, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this
I always KNEW I’d make “Person of the Year!” My mom will be so proud. Ummm, that must make for a mighty complicated cover photo. How did they know I was a size WWW? :-)
By joe
December 18, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this
why not do the d-rays trade for baldelli. Giving up salty, escobar and davies. then move AJ to dodgers for for penny and kemp. Play kemp in left, baldelli in center. Penny goes in the third spot infront of hampton and james. Keep laroche, no need to trade him.
Lineup: baldelli, rent, chipper, macann, laroche, franc, kemp, then johnson.
rotation: smotlz, hudson, penny, hampton, james.
Team would be good, cheap and signed for a few years.
By sammy miller
December 18, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this
sammy miller says that tommy glavine is a chotch!
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 18, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad, I was basically throwing out a possible scenario. Who is to say JS has even approached the Cubs. The Cubs may think that Hudson is untouchable (which he may be). Now, a lot of Cubs fans are happy on one hand but nervous on the other. They would have much rather seen the likes of Schmidt or Zito signed than Lilly and Marquis. Nobody believes that Prior will make it through Arpil if he even can get through spring training. It is obvious the Cubs are going for broke and wanting to win NOW! I am almost certain that they told Pinella that they would spare no cost to put together a competitvie team. While they like Rich Hill, I’m sure they would give some thought to a pitcher of Hudson’s caliber. If the stars aligned right, that rotation would be unstoppable. I do know they are trying to shop Jones. They wanted to send him to Colorado for Jennings and throw in Marmoul but the Rockies balked wanting Hill. But, this was before Lilly and Marquis were signed so the Rockies went forward with the deal from the Astros. Like I said, I am just thinking of ways to improve the team now and in the future. Also, moving Hudson would free up money to attempt to sign Andurw, which almost everyone on here thinks should be done (resigning Andruw).
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 18, 2006 11:47 PM | Link to this
Joe, I think the deal with the Rays would already be done if it were up to JS. The Rays are balking because they want James and another pitcher. They think they could get two major league ready pitchers for Baldelli. As soon as they come back to earth, I think they will make the deal.
By Tyler
December 18, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this
LaRoche for Ray/Penn? http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6287132
The Orioles have renewed their pursuit of Braves first baseman Adam LaRoche, this time without offering second baseman Brian Roberts. Earlier this month, Orioles owner Peter Angelos nixed a trade of Roberts and right-hander Hayden Penn to the Braves for LaRoche and second baseman Marcus Giles.
In the latest discussions, the Braves likely are targeting Orioles closer Chris Ray, who could join closer Bob Wickman and setup man Rafael Soriano to give the team formidable late-inning relief.
The Braves probably would want another player in addition to Ray — perhaps Penn. They have been reluctant to trade LaRoche for Pirates closer Mike Gonzalez without receiving another piece in return.
The Orioles don’t want to move Ray, but they would be foolish to dismiss the idea if they could add LaRoche, a left-handed hitter who could thrive at Camden Yards.
Ray, who turns 25 on Jan. 12, is five years away from free agency, but LaRoche, 27, also qualifies as a young, developing player — he’s three years away from going free.
By adding three free-agent relievers — right-handers Danys Baez and Chad Bradford and lefty Jamie Walker — the Orioles have built enough bullpen depth to withstand the loss of Ray.
By Carolina Lady
December 18, 2006 11:50 PM | Link to this
Stinky, as DOB says, “Sorry about that, pal.” I was under the impression that the original SJA was no longer able to blog. With your reputation for posting under other’s names, I guessed wrongly. Sorry! :-))
Now, who is posting under the name SJA?
By Wayne in Utah
December 18, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this
Robert(Justice Is The Best) You have presented your two possible trades (with a potential follow up for Baldelli) a couple of times today/tonight. A couple of points, no way would LAD get rid of Loney AND Billingsley for Salty, as the Penny for Hudson would be a fairly straight across swap. They are playing serious hardball with Loney, Billingsley, LaRoche and Ethier. They MIGHT give up Kemp and one pitcher for Hudson and Salty.
As for the Cubbies, Hill is off limits. So, when you propose these trades, you have to put yourself in their GM’s shoes, and see if you would do it then. From what I am hearing, neither of those deals will happen.
As Braves fans, we knock our players for what we perceive they can’t do (Hudson) and then we want other teams to take them as if they were Cy Young reincarnated…..
Just my two cents worth…
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 19, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this
I hear you, Wayne. I think the Dodger deal would be a stretch. I don’t think Hudson is washed up. I personally think that the climate has affected his pitching as much as anything. Trading him and Salty for Penny and Kemp is something that I could live with. As for the Cubbies, I would consider Sean Marshall instead of Rich Hill as long as Wil Ohman was part of the deal and of course, Jacque Jones. You’re right. If I were the Dodger GM I would demand LaRoche if they wanted Looeny. Honestly, if I were the Cubs GM I would consider letting Hill go to get Hudson.
Now, Tyler I find that rumor with the Braves and O’s to be interesting. I would think JS would do that deal in a heartbeat but would the O’s? If they would..IF I would still attempt to convice the Rays to take Davies in the deal for Baldelli. If they didn’t budge, I would offer Penn and Davies along with Prado or T. Pena for Baldelli. If the Rays demanded Escobar, the Braves should counter with wanting Greg Norton or Jorge Cantu.
The problem is would the O’s give up two quality pitchers just to get LaRoche? Another solution could be, if the O’s won’t give up both pitchers, is to ask for Kevin Milar in return. Milar then could platoon with Thorman and quite honestly would be a great addition to the clubhouse. He may help Frenchy and McCann bring more excitement to the team.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this
Troy, sorry, but not into either of those bands.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this
Hunter Thomson fans, if you get Starz network there’s a really good documentary, “Buy the Ticket, Take the Ride,” about the good doctor. It was on last night, I’m sure it’ll be on several more times. It was also on Spike, one of those cable networks that i never remember exists.
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 19, 2006 12:18 AM | Link to this
So why wouldn’t SJA be “able” to blog???…
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this
oh, and Troy, regarding SP, I don’t think they’ll be getting another since they kept Hudson. It certainly looks like Hudson’s staying now, barring some late offer from a team desperate for a starter.
By Wayne in Utah
December 19, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this
Don’t you folks ever sleep?? I am 2 hrs behind the east coast, and I can’t believe Dave is still blogging!!!
I love the hot stove (especially when it is in the teens here in Utah). What is exciting is that chances are JS will pull off a deal that is somehow similar, but maybe totally different than we are expecting. I would love to get Mike Gonzalez of the Pirates, but I think our two front offices have worn each other out in the past couple of weeks. In light of that, I am OK with Figgins, or even Ray of Baltimore. I think we gotta get some arms for LaRoche. He is our only decent carrot to dangle, as it is hard to get serious quality with prospects.
Don’t stay up too late folks….
By Tyler
December 19, 2006 12:27 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Have you heard anything about LaRoche for Ray? Seems to make sense to me if the O’s will include another player like Penn.
By Stinky
December 19, 2006 12:31 AM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, never assume anything.
By flbravesgirl
December 19, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this
Nice try, jimmy. :-)
OK, Grinch, you’re back in my good graces. I had to laugh at the thought of you looking all forlorn with the sappy music playing in the background.
BTW, made Russian tea cakes today.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 19, 2006 12:38 AM | Link to this
I just read an interesting article of Fox Sports.com about the Rays not only shopping Baldelli but Upton. The Marlins apparently are interested in Upton and wanted to send Rickey Nolasco for him but the Rays said no. They attempted to get the Mets in as a third team but the deal never went anywhere. How about the Braves get in on this? The Braves send Davies and Devine to the Rays. The Marlins get Upton. The Braves get Baldelli and Nolasco. Or the Braves simply send Davies to the Rays and the Marlins send Nolasco. Upton goes to the Marlins and Baldelli to the Braves. That should make the Rays happy because they will receive those two “major league ready” starters they seek. If the Braves could pull off the O’s deal they would get Ray as their 7th inning guy and Penn as a starter who could replace Davies.
Also, the Rays offered Giles a contract and he said no. It looks like to me that perhaps Giles leaving had less to do with the Braves and more to do with his desire to play in San Diego. The Padres are only offering a one year deal whereas the Rays were offering him a three year deal.
By Scalp 'Em Braves
December 19, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this
May I go on record as to following?
I do not want to do a “threeway” trade involving the Stankees? I HATE them sum-beeches, and NEVER want to see them prosper at our expense, or at any another team in MLB’s expense. Did I mention I DESPISE them, and their fans???????
On trading Adam LaRoche…. I don’t want to trade him - I think he will help us “lots” next year. But, if management is intent on trading him, I want nothing less than:
From the Bucs - Gonzalez, plus a DECENT, VIABLE lead off hitter at 2B or LF player. Straight up, Roachman for Gonzo? Not sure it is worth the price.
From the Anglelos - Figgins, plus the 1st base prospect (can’t remember his name now, but you know it), plus a relief pitching prospect. Roachie is worth that.
From the Stankees - nothing less than Jeter - we’ll take his high priced contract - the guy is worth it. He’s going into the HOF one day - no doubt - wishful thinking here - but wouldn’t take “Milky” and Proctor in exchange for LaRoche.
Or, how about we hang onto LaRoche for next year? He’s a good guy, good hitter, great fielder, etc? Novel concept?
I hate players being talked about like pieces of meat. In essence, what several of you are espousing is “We’ll trade our full beef tendorloin for your filet mignon, plus your rib eye steak and you chuck steak”. Can any of you look at these players (ours or theirs) as human beings, with any thought of where he might like to be next year?? Him, his family, etc? DOB said that Brian Roberts, even if we can swing the trade, would be arbitration eligible for $5mm. What is the benefit of trading for him, giving up LaRoche, and ztill being on the hook for what it would have cost to keep Marcus??
Where does the madness end???
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 19, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this
Stinky—How’s it feel to be in “the clique” now?..one of the chosen few?? Is the grass greener over there, do you feel more intelligent, are you more loved, has jimmy invited over for tea and pie yet???…Did it hurt when they declawed you, did it hurt when they de-balled you???…Are you DOB’s pet now????
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 19, 2006 12:48 AM | Link to this
I needed to add on thing to my previous post. The Braves could add Escobar to sweeten the deal. Basically, we would be trading Davies and Escobar for Baldelli but could backfill Davies’ spot with Penn and gain Ray in the process. The Marlins would be happy because they would basically be getting what they wanted in the first place which is a straight up trade with Nolasco for Upton.
The lineup could be: 1. Baldelli 2. Renteria 3. C. Jones 4. A. Jones 5. McCann 6. Francoeur 7. Thorman (perhaps Diaz could learn to play 1st as a platoon w/Thorman) 8. Aybar/Prado/K. Johnson
The rotation: 1. Smoltz 2. Hudson 3. Hampton 4. James 5. Penn/Villereal/Cormier
The bullpen: Wickman; Soriano; Ray; Paronto; McBride; Boyer; Villereal/Sturtze
The bench: Diaz; Langerhans; K. Johnson; Orr/Prado; B. Pena
Pitching insurance/minors: Cormier?; Stockman; Foster?; Jonathan Johnson; Matt Harrison; Devine; Barry
By The Grinch
December 19, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this
Hoo-ray! Let’s have a parade! “Seventy-six TROM-bones led the big PA-rade…” I really AM completely hopeless, and mean no harm. Tea cakes are a good thing (especially in Russia). And who says Bryan dosen’t Rawk?!? :-)
JJS, that’ll work. I reckon we’re even now.
Hey, DOB; are you saying you don’t have a great big poster of Chad from Nickelback on your ceiling? I mean, the carefully-coiffed curly hair and Don Johnson shadow make up for a helluva lot of cookie-cutter singles…LONG LIVE RAWK!!!
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:59 AM | Link to this
Scalp ‘em, apparently the madness might end with LaRoche to the O’s and Braves don’t even get Roberts, thereby turning over the right side of the infield to unproven Thorman and unproven Prado or unproven-as-2B K Johnson.
This if you believe Ken Rosenthal’s latest rumor just posted an hour ago, in which he says Braves and O’s are talking about a deal without B. Roberts involved. He speculates could be closer Chris Ray and perhaps another arm like Penn. Again, sounded like speculation to me, the Baltimore pitchers part of it.
However, Ken lives in Baltimore and covered the O’s a few years back, so he is still quite connected there and I’m sure has some good O’s sources. So there’s probably something to it, though I can’t honestly say because it’s the first I’ve heard of it and I’m not calling anyone after midnight to check. Tomorrow, perhaps, will shed some more light on this.
Hey, it’s a rumor-a-day at this point. Could drive yourself nuts trying to figure out which to believe. But again, remember that Schuerholz said all along, pitching was the priority.
However, if they were to trade LaRoche for pitching alone, after getting nothing for Giles … well, that might be taking things a bit far, getting rid of the right side of your infield, perhaps 50 homers and 160-170 RBIs and very good defense from both, and not having anyone proven to take over.
And without LaRoche to trade, don’t see how you’d acquire a proven guy to fill either role, either. So I’m not going to put much stock in this, just yet.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this
Grinch, can’t say I’m aware of what Nickelback sounds like. But I’m guessing it ain’t exactly Led Zep?
Oh, and to the other two: For the love of all that’s holy, please stop talking about your silly melodramas, your trials and tribulations at the hands of the mean gang here, you poor tortured souls.
My god, it’s absolutely astounding that you could actually believe anybody gives a crap. Whaaaaa.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this
as someone used to say, good night, and good luck.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 19, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this
DOB, let’s say this deal goes through with the O’s. I, too, have some doubt that the O’s would do it but after looking at their pitching they could sustanin the losses like Rosenthal said. With the money from Giles and the cash they would gain with Adam leaving and the two young O’s pitchers coming, the Braves would have almost $6 mil available and actually a bit more than that. Is it not conceivable they could go after a Mark Loretta with a one year deal, which would give K. Johson or Aybar time to better learn the position. Or they could go after a Ronnie Belliard. Also, isn’t Ryan Klesko floating around? Would he be interested in coming home for a “small” discount?
By TheSouthernJackAss
December 19, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this
DOB is exactly right—you 2 poor tortured souls, Lew and Carolina Lady—Nobody gives a crap!…Whaaaaa
By kinley
December 19, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this
Robert:
In reference to the Hudson/Salty for Penny/Kemp trade, what exactly would be the point in trading one decent starter and prospect for another decent starter and a prospect (Kemp did log 154 ABs last season, but there’s talk of him getting more seasoning in AAA)? Might as well just do Salty for Kemp. And don’t forget the Dodgers have Russell Martin, who’ll be behind the plate in LA for the next 10 years or so.
I don’t mean to come down hard on you or anything, I just don’t see any GM agreeing to a four-person trade when a two-person trade accomplishes the same thing. Efficiency is best.
By FormerBravesScout
December 19, 2006 01:21 AM | Link to this
If LaRoche is traded…Why not give Kelly Johnson a shot at the 1B job as well, instead of just handing it over to Scott Thorman…If I remember correctly Johnson was a high draft pick just like Thorman and they are both just 25 years of age.
By no means am I advocating a trade of LaRoche but if the powers that be decide to ship him off, Johnson gives the Braves another option there.
By The Grinch
December 19, 2006 01:43 AM | Link to this
DOB, remember how Creed was to alt-rock? Johnny-come-lately’s doing a simpering, half-assed facimile of a movement just long enough after it happened that they could target a new generation of 13-year old girls and make millions looking original? Thus is Nickelback now. Although in their defense, their stuff is awful catchy.
Robert JITB, you should be a GM somewhere. So that’s the end result of living in Indiana, huh? :-)
By Richard Cory
December 19, 2006 06:42 AM | Link to this
Dang, late for the party again”””’
By Stinky
December 19, 2006 06:44 AM | Link to this
The real reason LaRoche’s days in Atlanta are numbered: Bobby Cox would have a s** if he didn’t have 2 platoons in place. If you think I’m obsessed about certain things, just look at his track record with LF and 1B. He’ll never leave well enough alone if the opportunity to overmanage presents itself.
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 19, 2006 07:54 AM | Link to this
Yeah, Grinch. If I may say so myself, I am one of the lucky ones. I’m married to one of the hot women here. Not bragging by any means. But, this isn’t exactly a hot bed of hot women. Now, my homestate of Oklahoma. Oh, yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
By Robert(Justice Is The Best)
December 19, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this
One reason to trade Hudson is to clear payroll. Not so much this season but next. If the Braves want to have a shot at signing Andruw they are going to have to clear some payroll. Keep in mind that Hudson receives a $6.5 mil raise in 2008. If he can be traded for pitching, it is a win-win scenario for the Braves. Now, this is all if you believe Andruw should be retained, which I would say is 90% of the bloggers here.
By dadgum
December 19, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
My my my….the poor souls who pour their agitation over this fine blog thinking that their agendas are of utmost importance. Keep it up…actually it is rather humorous keeping up with your cantankerous ways.
Was in a spinning class at the health club when REM hit the CD player. A girl about 23 says “how about some Zeppelin too”. I thought damn! Now almost 40 years later they still have that hook. Talk about success. BLOG ON DUDES!
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 19, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this
DOB - be thankful you’re not aware what nickelback sounds like. they’re just plain awful. think creed, but harder and just as terrible.
By thathouguy
December 19, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
KC
I agree that the Braves’ recognized that the bullpen should be a priority, I just think that the addition of one good piece isn’t enough.
Tyler Yates was perhaps tired at season’s end, but I recall vividly him blowing up in at least several key games in August and September. Looking at the stats of the remaining players doesn’t tell the whole story.
We all seem to forget that is was far more than Reitsma’s ineffectiveness that lead to 32 Blown Saves.
I think you and others have missed my point about how effective Gonzalez could be against Beltran,Delgado, Wright, Howard and Utley who, with the exception of Wickman, were very very effective against those guys in your list.
That’s a benefit no one seems to acknowledge when discussing the trade.
Also, if you look at the teams that made it deep in the playoffs last season, they had a deep bullpen, not just 1-2 guys.
By Big Daddy
December 19, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this
It appears to this observer that the Braves lineup is pretty well set. They have the best young catcher in the NL and maybe all of baseball. They have a slick fielding first baseman who will hit 35-40 HR’s, drive in 100+ and hit .300. They are set at SS, 3rd, CF and RF. That leaves only LF and 2B.
In left they have a platoon of Diaz and Langerhans. In 2006 Diaz and Langerhans combined hit .283 (OBP .357) with 31 doubles, 7 triples and 14 HR’s. They drove in 60 and scored 83. They also had a SLG avg. of .425 as compared to Renteria at .436 (OBP .361) and Francouer at .449 (OBP .293).
That tells me that left field is not a very big problem in 2007. If Baldelli could be gotten he would be able to move to CF in 2008 and he has slightly better overall power numbers than the platoon above. Otherwise his stats are similar to Diaz/Langerhans combined.
At second the Braves have a whole covey of up and coming young players including Prado, Johnson and Aybar although I see Aybar as a fill in anywhere he’s needed and eventually into 3B when Chipper moves on. And there are Orr and Thorman although Thorman has a ways to go in hitting. His BA/OBP was .234/.263 in 2006.
Here is the real deal so far as I am concerned. Glenn Hubbard is considered a magician when it comes to teaching how to play second base and he has been spending a lot of time with Kelly Johnson since the season ended. All that time is not going for nothing. Look for Johnson and Prado to platoon there with the R/L thing in full swing. And it just may be the best of all worlds until one can take the job from the other. It worked with LaRoche until he learned to hit lefties.
The Braves bench is solid. The only real need they may have is another strong lefty in the bullpen. Otherwise they are set there also.
I see no need to trade away a LaRoche. For damn sure Thorman has not shown he can replace LaRoche at the plate nor with the glove. And every baseball fan knows a lot of games are SAVED with good gloves at first, just as they are at third. No stats are kept but we all know Andruw SAVES a lot of games in CF. So does LaRoche at first.
By KC
December 19, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this
Robert:
There’s no way Hudson should be traded right now (I’m not sure if that’s what you’re saying).
Given the recent contracts handed to guys like Ted Lilly and Vicente Padilla… it’s obvious that we’re not running much of a risk of getting “stuck” with his contract, should he fail to rebound from his poor 2006 season. Therefore, it makes a world of sense to keep him, at least for this year, while he’ll earn “only” 6 million (waaaaaay below market value for nearly any starting pitcher right now).
As I’ve said many times, 2006 was the first and only poor season of Hudson’s career. It has been a popular practice by many, including the esteemed proprietor of this blog, to lump Hudson’s 04’ and 05’ seasons in with his 06’ performance. But that grouping doesn’t make much sense, in my view. In reality, Hudson pitched through injury most of the 04’ and 05’ seasons (if you pull up his career stats, and look at his “games started” totals, you will see evidence of this), and still managed to finish with an excellent ERA of about 3.50 both seasons (which ranked him among the top 15% of all MLB starters).
He’s coming off a lousy year, but given his track record prior to last season, the fact that he’s healthy, still young, and hasn’t lost any of his stuff… at 6 million, the Braves should hang on to Hudson and see what he does this season.
If he returns to form next season, then you have to keep him. 13 million is a bargain right now for a bonafide ace. If he doesn’t bounce back, then dump him off to the same people that are giving Ted Lilly and Vicente Padilla 11 mill a year.
By Dennis
December 19, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
DOB
If this deal with the O’s for LaRoche is viable, I would do it. There are so many more options for 1st and 2nd base than there are for pitching and bullpen help. There are guys like Edwardo Perez, Ben Broussard, Etc. If we could do this and make a trade for Baldelli our lineup would be quite strong as well as our bullpen. M Loretta would be a nice pickup for a year. I think Penn would fit nicely in the future and Ray would be the kind of player that could add strength to a bullpen that has long been filled with journeyman.(Except Smoltz)Or is this just raising the bar for the Pirates/Yankees? There is no way we should give up LaRoche for just Melky!
By luke
December 19, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
DOB, im really intrigued by this latest rumor. although i would try to go for chris ray and daniel cabrera. i know cabrera is wild and raw but the talent on this kid, the skys the limit with this guy! i watched him pitch in the world baseball classic and he is absolutly filthy! then you have chris ray in the 7th, soriano in the 8th, and wickman in the 9th. then your only asking for 6 strong from your starters and anything after 6 inning of work is bonus. then you would have a starting rotation of smoltz, hampton, hudson, james, and cabrera which would be the best in the national league. great pitching beats great hitting any day! then that opens the door to be able to trade davies and prospects for baldelli because you have that 5th starter and if somebody goes down because of injury then you have a cormier to step in to fill the void till they get healthy. what do you guys think? what do you think DOB?
By KC
December 19, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Thathouguy: Hey… is “hou” in the middle of your screen name, Houston?
You are partially correct. Yates had a pretty bad August. And while you are also correct that Yates blew a couple of saves in September, he was still excellent in the final month of the season. Yates blew 2 saves in September, but it should also be noted that those were the only two games out of 15 appearances in which he allowed any runs. Not good at all in August… but very good in September. Here’s an interesting look at Yates’ season:
Yates’ ERA by month (he was called up on May 30th):
June: 2.53
July: 1.35
August: 9.00
September: 2.70
It looks like if the Braves simply place him on the DL for the month of August, they’ll be fine. LOL! Seriously though, the Braves believe in Yates. He hasn’t proven himself over a full, consistent season yet, and that’s why they were unwilling to head into next season with him as their setup man. But they like him a lot, and for good reason.
“We all seem to forget that is was far more than Reitsma’s ineffectiveness that lead to 32 Blown Saves.” Hell no, I haven’t forgotten. I still occasionally wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat as my cruel sub-conscious brings names like Ken Ray, Kevin Barry, and Jorge Sosa, to mind.
But you have to keep a few things in mind… By the end of the season, Macay McBride had really started to come into his own. Again, he posted an ERA under 2.00 from July 16th on, and was lights out against left-handed hitters all season long. Oscar Villarreal looked to be regaining the form that allowed him achieve a 2.57 ERA in 86 appearances a couple years ago, before his injury (Villarreal’s Sept. ERA was 1.42). Chad Paronto was solid all year, and Yates was brilliant most of the season (with the exception of August of course).
Now the Braves will get one of their best young arms back in the person of Blaine Boyer. The development/improvement of guys like McBride and Villareal, along with solid arms like Yates and Paronto, and now getting Boyer back… things are looking up not only for the 8th/9th innings, but for our middle relief as well. I sincerely believe that this bullpen has a chance to be as good as any in the league, just as it’s configured right now.
By Big Daddy
December 19, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this
Everybody seems to want Andruw back in 2008 and beyond. Count me among them. However, if it came to paying him 22-25% of my entire payroll budget I’d have to think twice.
There are a lot of other pieces that must fit to produce a weinning team. No one player can make a winning team. Take a quick peek at what happened when Tom Hicks made his stupid blunder of paying Alex Rodriguez $25 million a year a few years back. It set off a huge wave of resentment among the other players who each were manning 1/9th of the team, many of them making less than $1 million. No one is worth 25 times more than any other major league level player. Nor is anyone worth 18 or 20 times as much in my book.
Together Andruw and Chipper are collecting well over $25 million right now. Both are productive and both are great players but are they worth 25%+ of the entire budget? I think not.
In case you haven’t noticed I don’t get very sentimental over baseball players. I appreciate their skills and enjoy watching them play but I also see their frailties. Andruw for example, is always among the leaders in K’s. Last year it was Francoeur with 132, LaRoche’s 128, Andruw’s 127 and Giles’ 105. For the record Andruw and Giles had exactly the same batting average of .262. Of course Andruw’s other numbers dwarfed those of Giles.
Andruw’s RBI’s would not likely have been 129 had he not been batting 4th all season and his K’s killed a lot of rallies. (I noticed someone lodged that charge against LaRoche.) As a matter of fact he also grounded into 13 DP’s, 4 more than LaRoche. Andruw is not the greatest hitter even today by a long shot.
Andruw is still the greatest defensive center fielder I’ve seen play and I’ve seen a lot of them. He takes away more hits from the opposition than any other player. But he, like all others, have their achilles heels. And $20 million a year (for anyone) borders on vulgarity.
Enjoy him this year and bid him farewell as we go on to other places. After all the Braves won four (4) division championships BEFORE Andruw arrived on the scene. So it can be done. Other teams do it every year.
By rainman
December 19, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this
If we do get Ray and Penn J.S may be able to swing Penn or James plus whoever to the Rays for Roco.
By KC
December 19, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
I wonder if Peter Angelos would keep his fingers out and allow a trade to happen if the Braves sweetened the pot a little from the original proposal, with a mid-level position-player prospect or two. How about:
LaRoche and M. Prado and/or Brandon Jones
for
B.Roberts and Penn
By KC
December 19, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
rainman:
James is untouchable… just as he should be.
Also, if the Braves like a couple of young, unproven arms enough to part with LaRoche to get them, a pitching focused team isn’t going to turn right back around and trade that young pitching for offense.
By Drummerdad
December 19, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
Carolina Lady, You were right about Lew’s Cash portrait. Incredible. That does give the Wurlitzer depth beyond any pulitzer other writers could get.
By Drummerdad
December 19, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this
Stink-O-Rama, SJA, and the rest of your handles, I hope you have a good day today.
By Big Daddy
December 19, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this
If John S. trades James for anyone I’ll join those who claim he’s nuts…J.S. that is.
By Fed Up
December 19, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
Big Daddy:
What about Chuck James for Alex Rios. That’s a deal I’d have to take. Rios is going to be a superstar. James could be great, but he also might be one of those pitchers who never lives up to his potential. I would make that deal if it was available. Then I would have protection if AJ walks.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
Dadgum, I was similarly amazed (impressed) to read a story in USA Today a while back about all the teens who are into classic rock like Zep, Hendriz, Beatles, Stones. In particular, a station in NYC has a huge audience of these teens listening to stuff their parents used to listen to…
Anybody take a look at how the Skip & Pete forum or blog or whatever it is the AJC put up is going? I haven’t looked yet, but I’ve got a feeling I know already…
By rainman
December 19, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
K.C
to call ray unproven makes no sense after the year he had and i dont think James is untouchable at all he is good not great. That being said i love James and would love to keep him so maybe we could trade adam for penn and Ray, keep Ray, trade penn, Davies, and Escbor for Roco.The Braves then would have the best outfield and the best bullpin in the N.L.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
Ooops. Hit “post” on that last one before I saw the “z” stead of “x” in Hendrix. Think I still had z on the brain after reading a few minutes ago that Jay-Z is totally into Radiohead and Thom York. Now that’s cool….
15-game suspension for Carmelo. Do you guys realize that’d be like a baseball player getting suspended about 30 games for throwing a punch? Michael Barrett can only be thankful that David Stern’s not the baseball commissioner and, more importantly, that the union in baseball is about 50 times more powerful than the NBA players union….
That said, I was glad Carmelo was suspended that long. These slap-on-the-wrist penalties, like the one that T. Owens got for spitting, are a joke….
OK, that was my Larry King dot…dot…dot… moment.
By MBATL
December 19, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
I think I’d do the Laroche for Ray and Penn deal, and then try really hard to also do the Davies/Escobar/Salty for Baldelli deal.
Penn replaces Davies at the backend of the rotation, and probably has more upside.
Ray, added to Soriano and Wickman and the other young guys, gives us a stable ‘pen for a long time to come (what a change from the last several years!).
Baldelli gives us a solid LF/CF option at a good price.
Escobar aint’ gonna be playing for us anytime soon. Ditto Salty;
It IS kind of scary turning over the whole right side of the IF to unproven players. My take is that Thorman is a very adequate fielder and is a better PROSPECT than Laroche ever was (1st round pick, better minor league stats, etc);
And I just don’t see 2B as a disaster with all the options there. No, we won’t have an allstar at 2B, but we’ll be okay.
With that core group, we can be competitive in ‘07 - a different game based more on pitching than pounding — and we can survive the loss of AJ and have a few dollars to spend in ‘08 and ‘09, til the CJ, Renteria, Hampton and Hudson contracts start to fall off the ledger.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
Luke, Baltimore isn’t going to give Ray AND Cabrera to the Braves for LaRoche, and the D-Rays don’t look ready to give up Baldelli for Davies, Escobar and Salty _ I say that because the Rays have reiterated they want top young pitching that’s ready now, not a pitching prospect that still has some question marks.
By John Adcox
December 19, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Tom Waits, rumor has it that, somewhere out there in the bootlegosphere, there is a jam recording of Waits playing with Leonard Cohen. Basically, Waits covers some of Cohen’s songs, with Cohen providing background harmony, and vice versa. It’s such a deliciously bizarre idea that it must be amazing. If anyone happens to come across a copy, I’d love to give it a listen.
Jeez… I love reading this blog when I need a break from writing. We should meet at a bar and have a Christmas party. I’m gonna head over to one now, and just hope it happens to be the right one.
John
By Efrim D
December 19, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
DOB, please comment on Laroche for Ray and Penn??? Loewen would be nicer than Penn in that deal. I would do Loewen for Laroche straight up.
By KC
December 19, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
Rainman:
You are correct. Chris Ray has certainly proven something at the major league level. Admittedly, I didn’t know much about him. I thought he was a prospect, like penn, as opposed to an established major leaguer. My mistake.
You are wrong about Chuck James. He IS virtually untouchable, and after a great minor league career, had what was indeed a great season for a rookie. So far, everything James has shown us has been great. So until that changes… he is a great, not good, young lefty.
By MBATL
December 19, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
DOB, couldn’t agree more on ‘mello’s suspension. A fight is a fight (not acceptable, but it’s going to happen, and should be dealt with); but a sucker punch from a 6’8” 230 lb man is a different story (see Rudy Tomjanovich/Kermit Washington). 15 games is light.
Anyway, back to baseball … Saw your comment that the D-Rays probably won’t do the Baldelli deal as we’ve discussed it. Maybe. But I think they’re gonna realize that the market for Baldelli is not quite as strong as they’re hoping. And they’ve got a lot of OF who need playing time.
We have some pitching prospects we could throw into the deal if we obtain Ray; do you think a Devine, Startup, etc would sweeten the pot enough?
By Arkansas Hillbilly
December 19, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this
Yeah I like to see Stern be a hard-a** when the NBA street thugs go all “Laimbeer/Mahorn” on the court. Sucker punch and back-pedal…..I’d dang-near rather watch “The Real World” more than I would an NBA game these days. Thank the lord for NCAA Basketball March Madness.
BTW, Grinch and other Hawk fans, I can’t help but notice on sportscenter every night that Joe Johnson (former Hog) misses a last-second potential game winner every two or three days. I don’t follow Pro- ball much, so does he choke in the clutch or what?
By MBATL
December 19, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this
Efrim D, I can’t pretend that I’ve really seen Loewen or Penn pitch, but looking at the numbers, sure looks like Loewen has a problem with walking guys… I hate that! But he’s young and maybe can overcome it. Do you know much about him? And is he ‘on the table?’
By The Grinch
December 19, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this
Morning, all. Fixing to go do my traditional early Christmas shopping. As for the fines and suspensions, I got to totally disagree with you, DOB. 15 games for throwing a slap? The fines and suspensions should be to protect those who don’t wish to get hurt. Those are gonna be the ones who don’t engage in the brawl anyway, just like baseball players who don’t want some don’t have to clear the dugout. There’s your safety valve; anyone else is only getting what he asked for. Now if it’s unprovoked (which by all accounts, ‘melo’s slap wasn’t), or if it involves a fan or ref, then yeah. Like T.O. spitting. A grown man has no business doing that to another one. A 1 game suspension (against Philly) would’ve kept him from playing a very important game both for himself (against his former team) and for his team (fighting for home-field advantage in the playoffs). Hit him where it hurts. That fine was less than he probably spends on socks.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
MBATL, again, they’ve said they want pitchers who are ready to help their major league team NOW, impact guys, not prospects and not guys like Davies who still haven’t proven themselves at the big league level.
By NCBravesFan
December 19, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
DOB In your conversations with Braves officials, do you get the sense that they are “going for broke” to try and get back to the World Series in 2007 (before AJ potentially flies the coop and other players start to leave or retire)? Or, do you think they are going to try and stockpile as many young players as possible in order to try and secure a contending team for the next several years (whether or not that leads to a championship-caliber team next year)?
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Grinch,you saw Carmelo’s punch as a “slap.” You don’t think he intended to so serious harm there? The way his hand ended up maing contact may have been more slap than punch, but when he threw it, that was most definitely a punch, my man. A punch. And he intended to knock the hell out of him. And if he’d connected squarely, he would have.
At least in Barrett’s case, he was standing toe-to-toe, one-on-one, with A.J. when he busted him. He didn’t come in from the periphery and throw a punch in the middle of a 10-man fray the way Carmelo did.
A “slap”? Really? Wow. Didn’t see it that way, at all.
On a side note, though somewhat related to your characterization, it always amuses me to hear radio and TV broadcasters and highlight-show anchors when they characterize NBA fights and baseball fights as guys throwing weak punches or slaps and then running, or waiting until someone holds them back to engage in a fight, etc. Always, these media guys say it as though the players, the 6-foot-9 basketball players or the 6-1, 220-pound baseball players or whatever, are somehow sissies or not really tough because they’re not standing there, squared up, like a boxer.
Needless to say, any one of these players could basically incapacitate any one of us media members with one punch.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
I should qualify that. Not every one of these players. There’s a few 5-8 baseball players, like the Ecksteins and others, and some older pitchers, etc., who aren’t too physically imposing. But for the most part, most of them are far bigger and stronger than they appear on TV, simply because of the context they’re in, surrounded by similarly sized players on the field, court, etc.
OK, don’t know how I got off on that tangent.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
NC, they’re trying to win now, first and foremost. but not at the expense of absolutely mortgaging the entire future irresponsibly, not leaving the cupboard bare for the next regime. But yes, they are definitely trying to win now. That’s not really much different than in the past, other than there’s perhaps a little bit more urgency because they watched the playoffs from home last year and also, perhaps, though they’d never admit it, because Schuerholz and Bobby are winding it down.
Don’t know how many more years they’ll be here, maybe one, maybe three or five, but it won’t last forever, and they’re a LOT closer to the end than the beginning now.
By MBATL
December 19, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
DOB, not arguing with you (guess I’m arguing with the D-Rays but they’re not here) but have they seen the market for even modestly successful ‘impact’ pitchers? Meche, Marquis, Lilly?
I think the best they can expect (unless they’re willing to take on big salaries) is a backend, low-cost starter and some prosects. But, we’ll see. Would sure like to see us swing a deal, but it’s NOT worth James, IMO.
Scanned through the “Pete and Skip” blog. A lot of traditionalists who don’t want any change; a lot of support for Pete… for Skip, not so much.
By KC
December 19, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
As for Mello’s suspension, I am vacillating between “just enough” and “not enough”. I commend the NBA for the way they run their league. They are running a tight ship, and that’s good for the sport, for the fans, and for the sponsors. They are the model for the way a professional sports league should operate, in nearly every way.
I just hate that whenever something like this happens, I can’t get NBA coverage because the fight will be the only damn thing the sports media will talk about in regard to the NBA for weeks after the fact.
By Bronx Brave
December 19, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
So, if the Braves are willing to trade LaRoche to Baltimore for Chris Ray and Hayden Penn…
And, Tampa doesn’t want to send us Rocco Baldelli without getting good young pitching (other than Davies) in exchange…
Is it possible that the Braves may be thinking of acquiring Ray and Penn, then shipping one or both, in combination with Saltalamacchia and/or Escobar, to Tampa for Baldelli?
By ncscoots
December 19, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
Willie Aybar is making noises in the winter leagues as if he wants to play every day (BA over .300) and the Braves have as much said that Thorman is ready for 450 AB next year. So far, no rumored trade scenario involving Laroche leads me to believe the result thereof would be better than Aybar at 2nd, Thorman getting plenty of AB in LF, and Adam at 1B. That’s an absolutely sick lineup (as in pitchers coming up with flu-like symptoms when it’s their turn to pitch to it).
So, find me a situational lefty RP, and some pop for the bench, and I’m ready to play. The bullpen has been solidified at the end of the game, and the rotation should be better than last year, if only because of karma.
I admit, going with the status quo leaves some problems looming for 2008, but no proposed trade of LaRoche, that I’ve seen, addresses those, either.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
MBATL, as you can imagine, I’m only relating to you what the D-Rays are saying. My opinion matters zero.
Grinch, couple of typos in my first post to you. Damn computer is acting up today, locking up, not letting me do three things at once (download IPod, scan wires, and blog) and keystrokes aren’t catching up with fingers.
Or maybe it’s the hallucinogens….
(kidding, boss)
By KC
December 19, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
I want to see Skip and Pete remain on TV, not because I’m resistant to change, but because… frankly, they’re better at what they do than most. Skip and Pete are good for different reasons.
Pete is a truly great announcer. He’s a consummate pro in every way. Skip brings a lot of personality to the table. I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed hearing him and Joe Simpson together over the years. They are sarcastic and humorous, and you just don’t find that in sports commentators. Most sound very sterile and canned in their commentary (unless you get a few too many beers in Rick Sutcliffe).
I remember one game in particular when a rookie umpire had the worst night in the history of umpiring. I can’t remember the guys name, though I would know it if I heard it. Anyway, this guy made a series of inexcusable (for a MLB umpire) calls that night, and Skip and Joe made smart-as* after smart-as* comment all night. It was hilarious! You’re not going to get that kind of edge or personality from Bob Rathbon.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
Scoots, only problem with your scenario is that Schuerholz, when I asked him directly about Aybar at 2B, said the Braves like him in a super-utility role, not as the regular 2B. He’s said this more than once this winter.
By berigan
December 19, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
Check out http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ for some general talk about the D-Rays. They clearly have an overabundance of talent in the outfield, if they had any money, and could sign a big pitcher and trade a few prospects for stud pitchers, they could compete….if they were in a division without the Yankees or RedSox
By Drummerdad
December 19, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
suspensions: Whatever happened to “sportsmanship”? The intriguing thing to me about that NBA game the other night is that Isiah probably baited the guy. He (Isiah) was a tough, smart player, but I’ve never liked him as a coach, president, or head of the CBA. In my opinion, the penalties are appropriate because, if for no other reason, they get paid way too much to have that little self control. The sham would be if Isiah incited that brawl and got off with nothing. I remember the NBA finals between Philly and Portland. George McGinnis and Maurice Lucas squared off and set off a hefty altercation. Doctor J went to the other end of the court and sat down on the floor and waited for the dust to settle so they could compete again. That being said, I think he also pummeled Larry Bird once. But I’ll stick to the example in the finals.
By michael
December 19, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
NBA players need to be humbled a bit. As punishment,all NBA players should have to wear 1980’s uniforms. YIKES! …and how did they go from short-shorts to the dresses they wear now? Ah who cares? Haven’t watched basketball in years….is it time for baseball yet?!
By MBATL
December 19, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
scoots, the other problem with your scenario is that, from what I recall, Thorman was pretty much a disaster in LF. I can’t see us giving him a lot of time there (though it’s good he can move out there if needed).
I don’t really understand the Braves’ feeling that Aybar is a sub, not a starter. Seems like if the guy can field the position (2B) and hit, then he should play every day. If CJ gets hurt, move him to 3rd and plug in Prado/Orr/KJ.
By geauxbraves2000
December 19, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
Fines/suspensions send a message. If the suspension is only 1 game, big deal. If the suspension is 15 games, that’ll make those think twice.
The 50 game suspension in baseball sends a message, though there are still people out there getting caught. If you want to send a message, how about 25 games for bullpen pitchers that run onto the field during a fight. Ditto for those coming off the bench. If a batter knows he’s going to be alone in a fight, he will think twice about charging the mound. Then maybe pitchers can pitch inside again.
Not sure how I arrived there…
Geaux Braves!!
By Snowball's Chance
December 19, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Grinch, Drummerdad, Carolina lady, I have been lurking lately but talk of Bonham and Sandy Nelson made me want to post. I used to practice with my monoral(sic)little record changer perched precariouly next to my ear to Sandy Nelson. Years later doing a solo his licks were always sneaking in. I remembered the name of “Let there be Drums” but was wondering if I was thinking of Krupa. It sounds like a big band era title. I saw Bonham 3 or 4 times. He was pure power. The first time as an unknown opening band for “Vanilla Fudge”. Carmen Appice, their drummer was great,too.
By KC
December 19, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
MBATL: I think BC has pretty much already said that Thorman will be getting more time in LF next season (this is assuming, of course, that LaRoche is still around).
The thing is… he’ll get better out there the more he plays, and he carries a pretty big stick, so his offense should make up for anything he lacks in the filed. And of course, the have defensive OF replacement extraordinaire, Ryan Langerhanz… so expect to see Thorman and Diaz splitting time for the most part in LF, with Langerhanz seeing a lot of late-inning action for his glove.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
KC, you wrote: “I want to see Skip and Pete remain on TV, not because I’m resistant to change…”
Personally, I want to see Skip and Pete remain on TV because I AM resistent to change. But also because they’re outstanding, as you pointed out.
And Skip’s on the all-time smarta$* list, which I like. Plus, he attended a Big 12 school (even though it was Mizzou).
Alas, Joe is also very good, quite a smarta$* himself, and attended a Big 12 school (even though it was OU).
Hey, long as I can hear Skip and Joe on the radio when I’m mowing my lawn on occasional nights off in the summer, it ain’t so bad.
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
Meant to say, long as I can hear Skip and PETE on radio (but Joe will also be doing some radio, also good).
Hey, fans who’ve lived or traveled elsewhere can tell you how good Braves fans have had it with those quartet over the years (including Sutton). Far better than almost every market, in terms of overall talent. Sure there’s a Vin Scully here, a Harry Kalas or Marty Brenneman there, but overall, don’t know of any market that had a better group of broadcasters recently.
By fnreitsma
December 19, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
explain to me why atlanta hates chipper so much? is there a man with better numbers than chipper who’s hated as much by his own city? hell…bonds is LOVED in the bay area. LOVED. and he juiced! all chipper did was hook up with a hooters girl. and that was like 10 years ago
By David O'Brien
December 19, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad, Isiah Thomas is some sort of anti-Will Rogers (you know, Will never met a man he didn’t like?). Isiah seems to rub EVERYONE the wrong way.
Also, loved Dr. J, had his poster on the wall and a pair of his hi-top leather Converse All-Stars. But no one pummeled Larry Bird, dude. No one. Hick from French Lick could scrap, not that he often needed to (too much respect from other players to get into many fights, despite how hard he played and how much trash he talked, just like MJ.)
By fnreitsma
December 19, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
dude…even Dwight Gooden gets respect. i just dont get it.
By Efrim D
December 19, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
DOB, ask anyone who they would rather have, Loewen, Penn, Davies, or James. And they are going to say Adam Loewen with no hesitation. This guy has the potential to strike out a guy an inning…next year. James is going to give up way too many home runs in his career and turn into an Eric Milton. Ray is a good pickup, but I would want Loewen as well, or just Loewen alone.
By KC
December 19, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
DOB: Yeah, I’m not heartbroken over it, because I will hear them often on the radio, and I’m even planning to buy a device to delay the radio signal to match my satellite delay, so I can turn down the TV and listen to those guys.
However, I really feel for die-hard Braves/Skip-Pete fans elsewhere in the country who will not have the opportunity to hear these guys everyday. It’s a shame.
I’m not really sure what Fox is trying to accomplish with their decision last year to not pursue using the established Braves crew in their telecasts. They said something to the effect of “those guys are associated with Turner”. Yeah, to people in their industry, that’s probably true. But to the average fan, they’re just associated with the Braves.
Tragic.
By KC
December 19, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
DOB: Who owns the Knicks, and what are they smoking? Why they continue to let Isiah run that franchise into the ground, is beyond me.
By Fed Up
December 19, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
DOB: Why do you love Vin Scully so much? I live in Los Angeles, and I get really tired of him. He’s got a great baseball voice. But man, he gives you each player’s entire biography while the game is on. It’s like Bob Costas at the Olympics, too damn much filler.
By Snowball's Chance
December 19, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Dummerdad, I rememeber that fight in the ‘77 finals. But it was Lucas against “Chocolate Thunder”,the man-child from the planet lovetron, Darrell Dawkins. Lucas looked like he had planned the whole thing.He was nailing Dawkins with forearm shivers.He was’nt going to risk a broken hand. Dawkins, the closest thing to Shaq in those days was overmatched. Dawkins unleashed a haymaker. Lucas ducked and it landed on Doug Collins chin. every time I have to listen to Collins’ whiney voice on current NBA games I remember the moment fondly.
By Arkansas Hillbilly
December 19, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
I understand that JS wants Aybar to shine in the super-utility role, BUT if he outperforms the other 2b candidates, shouldn’t he be the everyday man? I mean, the point of the game is to win and you win by putting your best players on the field, right. I’d hate to see the most productive player (hypothetically) sitting on the bench waiting for Chipper to get hurt because he is labeled as the designated “utility-man.” Same way with Diaz in left. If the man’s perfoming, let him play. Start the game with your best players on the field, BC and JS.
By MGL
December 19, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Giles will be a Padre according to local paper.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20061219-9999-1s19padres.html
By ncscoots
December 19, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Drummerdad, I was at the game re Dr. J and Bird. J was coming to the end of his career, Bird was at his best, and Larry just…ate..his…lunch. Just lit him up. And Bird being Bird, he was talking major smack every time he touched the ball, and after every score. I don’t mean just regular old smack, but serious you-can’t-really-expect-to-stop-me, you-got-no-chance-at-the-HOF smack. I mean, J was the epitome of a class player, and for the trash to be so bad that he took a swing, son, that is WORLD-CLASS trash.
now, baseball…yes, I know JS has spoken of Aybar as a super-utility guy, but, if he’s the best 2B option breaking camp, would they not go that way? MBATL, while Thorman is certainly no Gold Glove in the OF, I haven’t heard that he’s a complete butcher (no bonks on the noggin from a fly