Braves

By bruce

December 11, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Dave, Would it be too much of an insult for the Braves to offer Marcus a much smaller contract on Wednesday after they non-tender him to see if he would have a great year then get a better contract from another team for the following year?

If he could bat somewhere other than leadoff and heal his many injuries over the winter then maybe he could return to his former capability?

I like him and wish him the best where-ever he plays.

By Charles

December 11, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

By non tendering Giles, he becomes a free agent. Is he not available to the Braves as a free agent at that time or is there are waiting period? I thought I read that somewhere. And when is the acutal time deadline for non tendering contracts (i.e. midnight, 4:00pm)?

By dfree

December 11, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

any chance he’d sign back for less than 6 mil?

By JamesP

December 11, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

This is what San Diego is waiting on. Getting Giles after Tuesday.

By Mike

December 11, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

just wondering if we non tender Giles could we still sign him for cheap or can he not sign with us until May 1 like Clemens last year?

By rainman

December 11, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Anyone have info other than stats on these guys.

Dan smith, Zach Schreiber, and Matt wright,

Info such as what their best pitch is and speed on their fastball.

By JamesP

December 11, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

GM’s are like poker players. Got to bluff here and there.The Braves could sign Giles then trade to San Diego or possibaly work on a contract on anther Braves player to get there salery rework as they did to Chipper in the past.

By Chrizzo

December 11, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, once again, thanks so much for being so devoted to this blog. The following is an article from a newspaper up north, is there any truth that the LaRoche/Gonzo trade might still be on again, or at least do you see the two teams starting talks up again? This is the clip of the Braves mention from the article:

“Meanwhile, indications are that the Pirates’ attempts to trade for Atlanta Braves first baseman Adam LaRoche may not yet be over, though a deal fell apart last Wednesday. There were tensions between the two teams with the accusation by the Braves that Pirates General Manager Dave Littlefield drug his feet on completing a deal. However sources close to the negotiations expect both sides to try to resurrect talks once cooler heads prevail and believe the potential is still there for a multi-player deal, including a possibility in which the Pirates would send left-handed closer Mike Gonzalez, catcher Humberto Cota, second baseman Jose Castillo and outfielder Nate McLouth to the Braves for right-hander Kyle Davies and LaRoche.”

Link:

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17576515&BRD=2305&PAG=46

By rammerjammer

December 11, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

DOB, great info…as always.

I don’t sense any open weeping among Braves players over Giles’ imminent departure. Fans, yes. Not players.

Couldn’t help but notice your praises for Renteria’s attitude, professionalism, clubhouse demeanor, etc., and then your ominous silence that followed.

Sometimes it’s hard to read between the lines, but not in this instance. Hey, if I’m way out of line, just tell me.

By 22oz

December 11, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

i’ll say it again: Giles isn’t going anywhere. he’s on the main page at atlantabraves.com, right there with chipper, andruw, huddy and smoltz. thats as good as gold.

By Chrizzo

December 11, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

DOB, okay, so I tried the link and it doesn’t work. If you go to that papers site, you will be able to find it. Just wanted to clear that up because it is a legit article.

Let us know if you know of anything that might be going on.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Good stuff DOB…if they are drooling over him why not try and exploit that….I mean we all love C. James but if we can get a kings ransom why not?

Wow, puts a someone dark cloud over our actions thus far this winter. Only move(s) made was the RP with the funny last name and a trade for a relief pithcer who still mabey shell shocked. Hopefully Hampton can provide a big boost becasue it appears we are gambling on our bullpen again this year.

By michael

December 11, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Before anyone blames JS for not trading Giles,then non-tendering him,(that sounds odd),then losing him completely with no compensation,please remember this is TimeWarner’s fault.(again) JS is good, but can you imagine trying to work deals when everyone and their brother knows the cards you’re holding? What a horrible position for a GM to be in! If this trend keeps up, we may as well put the team back in the baby-blues and be done with it. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. 15 years of winning ain’t bad.

By BB FAN

December 11, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Giles would probably benefit greatly from re-signing with the Braves for one year at 1 million with the understanding that he does not bat leadoff. He would then be in Atlanta, where he is comfortable. He could then work on having a rebound year and cash in as a free agent after 2007 season.

Of course, I bet that San Diego offers him much more money than the Braves would be able to. With his brother there, he likely would just leave now and hope for a rebound season in SD.

By braveheart

December 11, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

i understand the braves position on declining production from giles, payroll realities, and the fact that they would be forced to pay him more than he is worth if they tender Giles. BUT this is very frustrating nevertheless. This is not a small market. It is not the fault of the GM. He is being handcuffed by these corporate cheapskates. I do not want them to go out there and sign every Tom, Dick, and Harry on the free agent market (especially this year where there really are not any quality free agents out there and everyone is spending like a bunch of fools for guys who are average at best). BUT I do want them to be able to retain their own stars. If the team is going to be predicated upon homegrown dudes, then we need to be able to retain those guys when we can. Very frustrating.

As always, DOB: Great article/blog. You always keep us informed, are opinionated, but also fair and objective in exploring all issues. I really appreciate it. It does make it hard for me to blog more often though. You just make too much sense for me to pick a fight with. Why can’t you just be more simple-minded and biased so that I can fight with you?

By ncscoots

December 11, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I’d be shocked if that Pitt deal, as stated, went through. Cota and McLouth add little to the deal, and Castillo is certainly no prize, so you’d be giving up starting pitching AND offense for a reliever. Even as much as I like Gonzalez, THAT deal is robbery of the first magnitude, IMO.

By Jim

December 11, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

Are the D-Rays likely to get a pitcher comparable to James from anybody else? (low salary, and high potential with a major league resume) These are not the kind of pitchers that teams are likely to give up for even a good position player. Are the Braves likely to substitute another pitcher (Harrison, Reyes) for Davies, and if so would the D-Rays do that deal? Would the Braves?

By flange1

December 11, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

RAMMERJAMMER,

I think you nailed it!! Bobby Cox says he wants him back, but publicly he wants everyone back.

Bummer to hear about Soriano. Hopefully he is just tuning up.

I don’t think we can give up James. He has too much upside right now. I would prefer to try some sort of three way like DOB suggested to use Salty to get another pitcher for TB. Maybe we just don’t match up…

If we get back into discussions with the Pirates, they have to give up a young pitcher. Does anyone want Cota?? I would give up Laroach only if we got back quality. Wither Gonzales or one of their young starters + a prospect.

By geauxbraves2000

December 11, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Even if Soriano is having a rough time I still think the Braves made a good trade. I wish HoRam the best, and I hope he has a good/healthy season.

As far as LaRoche/Giles for Penn/Roberts, I owe Mr Angelos (for you Seinfeld fans) a dinner an Mindy’s (and yes, soup does count). I can’t believe the Braves would even consider that deal, that is proposterous. Thank you Mr. A.

I would like to see Baldelli in a Braves uni, but the Braves ML starting pitching lacks quality depth, so the only way, IMO, to get a stater to TB is to do a three way trade.

Just my opinion.

Geaux Braves!!

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

WARNING FANTASY TRADE

Would anyone here trade Yunel Escobar and C. James for C. Crawford….

Stoking the C. Crawford discussion…as much as I hate it…the possiblity may exsisit if they love both player as much as DOB says.

I would not make hte trade as I think C. Crawford is overrated by everyone.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

Mike, the May 1 rule no longer in effect, and that was for teams offering arbitration to their own free agents, anyway. Different scenario.

Braves can negotiate with him like any other team after he becomes a free agent.

By mariner

December 11, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

The info below is from the newspaper link someone provide above. The situation seems identical to Giles, so it answers a few of the questions above. Giles and Chacon have the same major league service time. Giles made 3.85 mil last year, so if this article is correct, he could be tendered a contract for about $3.08 mil.

“Right-hander Shawn Chacon will almost certainly not be tendered because major-league rules allow clubs to cut players’ salaries by no more than 20 percent if offered arbitration, meaning the Pirates would have to offer him a minimum of $2.88 million after he made $3.6 million last season. Instead, the Pirates would like to non-tender Chacon then re-sign him to a one-year contract for around $2 million as a free agent.”

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 11, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

DOB - thanks for the new blog. I was getting tired of scrolling through 688 posts to find out the latest posts.

I hear what the numbers say. Can’t really argue with those. But, numbers aren’t everything, and my gut and heart say Giles is a keeper, if it can be done - realize it isn’t likely. I think anybody they bring up to play 2B next year is going to struggle and be less productive than Marcus was last year - but perhaps not as injury prone.

It’s a tough bidness, this baseball. Glad I don’t make my living doing it - I’d probably eat a truckload of Rolaids a day.

By Serge

December 11, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Selective stats. When you look at his stats, and compare them to league averages you realize that hes still been a very good player compared to other seccond basemen and is worth the 4-5m he would get in arbi. But whatever. The Braves would rather spend the league minimum on a much more mediocre player. We have a saying.. “you get what you pay for” and unquesitonably we will get mediocreness from Martin Prado for the league minimum yay! Hell why dont we bring Keith Lockhart or Nick Green back too?

The Economics of Baseball stink indeed.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

Chrizzo, I addressed the latest Pittsburgh rumor just before you asked me about it on the other blog. Go back and read the chain of posts, please. I don’t want to keep repeating it.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Chrizzo, through the magic of cut-and-paste, here’s my reply to the first person who brought up that illogical Pirates rumor:

I don’t think the trade rumor has much validity to it, if any. Can’t see them trading LaRoche AND Davies and not getting a starting pithcer OR impact position player in the deal. Just can’t see it.

Also not going to make phone calls to sources for EVERY rumor out there, because they’ll quickly stop taking my calls.

By Chrizzo

December 11, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the double post DOB. Thanks for the reply.

By Jim

December 11, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

What is Crawford’s salary? When is he elligible for free agency? If the Braves are still cash strapped then, we would be only renting a player at the expense of our top prospect and our best young pitcher. If we are trying to build a base starting with pitching, we can not trade away James! Who’s left? 40-year old John Smoltz, injured and expensive Mike Hampton, expensive and ineffective Tim Hudson, and TBA (pick two Villareal, Cormier, Davies, ?)

By JC FROM UT

December 11, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

How about this trade: LaRoach,Giles,Davies and Devine to Pittsburgh for Mike Gonzales and Ian Snell and Jose Castillo?

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

My WIFI sucks can someone copy and paste his response to the Pirates rumor on this blog, thanks?

By Peter

December 11, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

Trade NO MORE YOUNG PITCHING especially for a guy you’re not going to be able to resign in a few years anyway.

If the payroll is going to remain like this (maybe for several seasons) then we need to start moving vets (too late for Andruw) for young guys.

I don’t think our staff is solid enough to really compete for a championship.

The spending this offseason is nuts. Gil Meche five years, FIVE YEARS??? It makes you wonder if we’ll be able to keep a Francouer and McCann in the future.

Hey check out the Wreckers’ CD.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

Serge, your post is a classic case of being blinded by loyalty or affection for a player. You write:

“Selective stats. When you look at his stats, and compare them to league averages you realize that hes still been a very good player compared to other seccond basemen and is worth the 4-5m he would get in arbi.”

SELECTIVE STATS?? I went through one by one, batting average, on-base percentage, slugging percentage, OPS, steals, strikeouts … my goodness, dude. Which did I leave out? Upon what would you base an evaluation of his performance and production? Triples? Geez, that’s pretty silly, to call the stats I used “selective.” I went through year-by-year since his all-star season, a four-year span of every major stat. Call it what you want.

And how did “close to $6 mill” in arbitration become $4-5 mill with you? Do you know something I don’t about his projected arbitration salary?

By Peter

December 11, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

One more thing David. Buster had on his blog last week that Hampton had approached the Braves about re-doing his contract to accomodate Glavine but that they never got back to him. Heard anything like that?

By Lew

December 11, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

It has been an interesting afternoon driving around cold, dreary New England, doing Christmas shopping. I’ve listened to XM Home Plate and the Baldelli deal was discussed ad naseum. They will take James and Salty, but aren’t much interested in Davies and Escobar was not mentioned. According to the Rays’ beat writer (DOB’s counterpart), there is a 33% chance of Baldelli being traded and only 10% that he goes to the Braves. Crawford is NOT BEING SHOPPED for less than Dontrelle or another top line starter. They feel if he were on the open market, he would command Carlos Lee money. No word on any deals with the Piratews. Rainman-According to the latest issue of Chop Talk, which has a comprehensive overview of the Braves’ farm system, they list the top 17 pitching prospects. Dan Smith is #13. This is what they say of him “Atlanta bullpen prospect has improved fastball every season in minors, needs more consistency with his breaking stuff.” Zach Schreiber and Matt Wright are not listed at all among the top 17. Sorry, Dude.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Serge, here’s a ‘selective’ stat. You want to compare him to his position? How’s this: Last season the Braves had four guys rank among the NL’s top-five OPS performers at four of nine positions.

Here’s the rankings by position _ Catcher: 1. McCann (.967); 1B: 5. LaRoche .927; 3B: 2. Chipper Jones (.998); CF: 2. Andruw Jones (.895). And one other was ranked sixth at his position, SS Edgar Renteria (.799).

At second base, Giles’ .728 wasn’t in the top 10 in the NL. The top 10 weere Ray Durham (.904), Chase Utley (.900), Jose Valentin (.867), Jeff Kent (.847), Dan Uggla (.819), Jamey Carroll (.816), Orlando Hudson (.812), Jose Vidro (.752), Rickie Weeks (.751) and Brandon Phillips (.738).

That’s 10 second baseman from 10 other NL teams with higher (OPS) on base-plus-slugging percentage) than Giles. Or is that selective, too?

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Also, Matt Diaz was 10th among National League LFs in OPS, just for those who might be curious.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Peter, it was Gammons who had that about Hampton, not Buster. And while I hadn’t heard it, I wouldn’t doubt it happened. Point is, Braves can’t defer more money into the future with team up for sale. Chipper’s reworked deal actually saved the Braves a lot of money on the amount he would’ve made if his option years had vested (he’ll make $11 mill next season, would’ve been $15 mill option, and it would’ve vested even with all his injuries last season, to give you some idea how easy the 450 plate-appearance trigger was to reach).

Hampton’s remaining two years are guaranteed already, not opion years. So it would’ve been just a matter of deferring, not really saving the club money. And I have no idea if he would’ve wanted interest or whatever. At this point, it’s pretty irrelevent. They weren’t interested in doing it, probably because deferring, like I said, isn’t really something you do with a team for sale, not without checking to make sure it’s cool with the prospecive buyers, since you’re adding debt to the back end, etc.

By TN-MAN

December 11, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

DOB- is the nontender deadline at midnight tonight or tomorrow night? Do you see the Braves picking up any players that may be notendered?

By The Godfather

December 11, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you see any chance of the Braves signing Giles if they non tender him?

By dannycardwell

December 11, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

laroche needs to stay at least one more year. i remember 95% of everybody on these blogs were ready to ship him out 2 years ago. he is in the top 3 in baseball at what he does, hitting and fielding. his value will only increase next year. all we need is 2 more arms in the bull pen and a starter and were set. if we had wickman all year last season we would have made the playoffs. the hitting has always been there. nobodys going to miss giles any more than we missed furcal. pitching will always over shadow hitting. im ready for spring. at least when we watch the braves play we have a 50% chance of winning a home game.

By Lew

December 11, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

Matt Harrison, JoJO Reyes and Chuck James should be totally untouchable. That is 3/5 of our starting rotation in the next several years.

By MizzouGuru

December 11, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

DOB: I really think the Braves don’t need to make a trade. They’ve already made the one they needed to make. As a potential supersub, I would think Aybar could start a lot at second base and move to third if Chipper goes down. I see no reason to play an inferior player like Prado more than Aybar. Chone Figgins is referred to as a supersub but he had more than 600 ABs last year I believe. Aybar could also lead off.

By glorydays

December 11, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Is our ownership really committing to putting a championship team on the field, is who we trade, release and keep of any real importance to them. Based on recent investor statments I get the impression it is not important. Why is MLB approving this transaction?

By braveheart

December 11, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

You are killing Serge, DOB. I am loving it. Looks like Serge is bringing a knife to a gunfight with DOB. We are going to start calling you Dave Eastwood if you don’t lay off selective Serge.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

Could be Giles is going to be resigned for less than 6 million. And he might just take it. His family is in Atlanta already. I’d imagine any contract offered from the Braves would be 1 year with an option. Maybe if the Padres offer a multi year deal, but even then Giles would stand to make more going with a 1 year deal heading into next year’s free agency. I haven’t scoped out next years FA 2B, but after the glut that was this years, I’d imagine its fairly thin. One solid season from Giles could reap him more than 6 million over several years. Add into that a winter meeting walk through and you got your self some coin.
But with the depth we have at that position, keeping Giles at 6+ million isn’t wise spending.
Trading Chuck James would be a horrid idea. That is unless Chuck has had some secret career ending medical issue that will only be discovered after the trade is completed. Then it’d be worth it… for the Braves anyway. I’d rather have a healthy dominating Chuck James.
I’m Chuck James B!tch!

GO BRAVES

By dougp

December 11, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

If we can’t afford Giles (the fan favorite), then they sure can’t afford Crawford. The main reason to want Baldelli is that he is Affordable. I hate it too, but quit bringing up Crawford.
DOB, lots of people talking about great concerts in last blog. I saw Clapton, Stevie Ray and Robert Cray in Wisconsin. Incredible concert, for Claptons last sets stevie ray and robert cray came out to join clapton, and buddy guy and jimmie vaughn flew up from chicago for a few songs. woke up the next morning and found out a legend had died. they say his helicopter crashed into a mountain in the fog. Being a life long cheesehead, all i can say is we don’t have any mountains and i don’t remember any fog on the way home. although i wasn’t driving.
Maybe we can have a telethon for Giles and kind of raise the money ourselves to keep him.

By Richard in Goose Creek

December 11, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Are we so poor now that we will lose players to the Padres simply because they can wait to sign someone like Marcus after he is non-tendered instead of trading for him? Has it really come to this? If so, why not totally rebuild instead of fooling ourselves into thinking we will contend?

I think I am gonna hurl…

By james

December 11, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

the new laroche and davies for gonzalez, castillo, and some players that are going to be no tendered is absurd. end of story!

By glorydays

December 11, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Have there been any PUBLISHED studies correlating team profitability by winning percentage, because if it a real high correlation the Braves are going to suck very soon.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

glorydays,

No they are not. The CEO and other executives in charge of managing cost are concerned about the company’s bottom line…and rightfully so.

Unfortunately, a baseball teams purpose to exist is not to win championships, but to make money. There are several ways to do this and only one of them includes fielding a championship caliber team. I have to remind my self of this from time to time. While it’s nice to have the deep pocket owner who see the team as a toy rather than an owner who see the team as an asset the simple fact remains it’s a business. And in a business decisions have to be made to manage cost. And regrettably you have to make sacrifices. Such as the one we are likely going to have to make next winter with Andruw Jones. Fans get stirred up about Giles’ their really going to get worked up when AJ walks. Long live Ted Turner, despite his political shortfalls.

By Don

December 11, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

DOB Okay, I’m jumping to conclusions but you wrote it so I’m taking it as a concern, but if Soriano is damaged goods and performs accordingly, aren’t we back to square one (no set up man and still an average to poor remaining bull pen)?

Wasn’t it Schuerholz’s somewhat mandate to make the pen a dominant one again? It seems like this mandate may not come to reality.

By athens rotgut

December 11, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

I never wanted to do the Baldelli trade to start with BUT..

2008 Braves Outfielders Diaz, Baldelli, Francoeur could possibly be the most productive (offensively and defensively) and CHEAPEST combo in MLB

DOB-i do want to hear more about this.

By Peter

December 11, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

One more thing David. Buster had on his blog last week that Hampton had approached the Braves about re-doing his contract to accomodate Glavine but that they never got back to him. Heard anything like that?

If it is true then i understand hes not going to be willing to do it for everybody and all that But i was curious as to how many big leaguers that make a significant amount of money are actually willing to renegotiate their deals to help out the team. Other than Chipper of course. Chippers a good man.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

athens rotgut,

Someone answered that and I think it was DOB. Anyways, who ever said it made the folloiwng point:

It would not make since to defer the amount of money it would take as it would put a strain on the team in upcomming years as well. Which puts us in the same boat we are in today with Hamptons contract. In other words we dont really need an excess of “dead money”.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

why not totally rebuild instead of fooling ourselves into thinking we will contend?

Rebuild? What’s to rebuild? I keep seeing that posted over the last year. The Braves have a few vets but mostly arbi eligible or less players. How much younger could we possibly get? And, if we did, we wouldn’t be competitive ever. You can’t rebuild entirely with youth. I know the Marlins story from last year. Here’s an angle to think about, the Marlins had a ton of rookies, low expectations and managed to end the season with a losing record, second to last. They didn’t win anything. And it’ll be years before they can with the way the Mets spend and Phillies, if they ever learn to spend wisely. The Marlins looked mighty because the Braves stunk last season. The NL was lack lustor as a whole. It’s the same thing as the FA market. Career 4.00 ERA pitchers with only 2 15+ win seasons to their name get 16+ million a season. Doesn’t mean that’s a great pitcher.

We might as well make a run at it every year. Keep some vets sprinkle some rookies in there and see what happens. It worked for 15 years, no reason it should stop working now. I know, mid to late 90’s payroll was top of the bar, but I don’t remember it being at the top in 1991. It’s doable. And I wanna see it happen. It’s more rewarding to watch a team win built like the Braves are now, than to watch a team win by buying every free agent out there.

The Parity of WS victors of late seems to have diluted fan expectations. It is a goal to win the WS, yes. But it’s a bigger and better goal to win the WS 3 times in a row or more. To have what was known as a dynasty is the ultimate goal. Can’t get that unless you develop and build like the Braves do, or like the Yankees did in the late 90’s.

GO BRAVES

By Ken Stallings

December 11, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

Time Warner is killing this team, and frankly don’t give a damn! It’s really sad. One of the best teams in MLB and a corporate ownership group is killing it.

There is no doubt in my mind that Schuerholz is handcuffed by a stern prohibition against exceeding salary cap, even on paper. Such inflexibility indicates that Time Warner cares nothing about this team.

If we had a baseball commissioner worth a damn he’d step in and give Time Warner an ultimatum to close the deal with Liberty or immediately open negotiations with other interested parties.

Ken

By Nick Esasky

December 11, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

Soriano will be fine.

By Len Barker

December 11, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Go ahead with Baldelli. What’s the worst that could happen.

By Drummerdad

December 11, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

Villareal + Cormier = Millwood. Just throw Estrada inbetween so the progression flows right. If we could come up with a trade for Marcus and get a minor leaguer near the quality of Estrada I’d be happy. The Millwood trade was desperation to get something and it worked. Seems like they’re having a hard time doing that with Marcus. Schuerholz’s comment back then was that the economics of the game were all screwed up. Yeah, no kidding. Especially when you got no money to work with. Goodness John Schuerholz must have an incredibly thick hide. Dealing with this stuff would drive most of us nuts.

By TJ

December 11, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

There’s no way we can give up James at this point, so if that’s what Tampa has to have, then we need to just put Baldelli out of our minds. I don’t have a problem with the roster as it now stands. The Braves need to focus on developing their young players, and we fans need to focus on rooting for them. Enjoy it as it unfolds. That’s where I think the fun of all this is anyway.

By akirell

December 11, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Are the Braves taking any donations specifically for their player payroll? Haha

By Rex the Tex

December 11, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this

Any thoughts regarding Giles’ decline in numbers…with the steroid scandal. How else can you explain such a curious drop in production and his inability to stay healthy.

By Fed Up

December 11, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

I can’t stand Giles. I think he’s highly overrated. But the idea of letting a player go for nothing. NOTHING! Boils my blood. It’s beyond asinine that a multi-billion dollar corporation can’t pay this guy for a season and then ditch him at the July trading deadline for prospects. Time-Warner can perform unnatural acts with itself as far as I’m concern. I say we boycott all Braves home games, telecasts, and the purchase of any Braves gear. They’re turning us into a small market team. Liberty thinks they can spin us for a profit. I say we crap on the deal and drive down the value of the team if they let Giles go for nothing!

By woogidy

December 11, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

Tenn-Paul. I agree 100%. Build a TEAM, not a roster.

By ernesto

December 11, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this

Do you think the Braves will go after Marcus after they non-tender him? Or do you think there would be an impression that there would be too much bad blood on Giles’ side?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, I wanted to tell you about the Red Sox situation Matsuzuke (sp?). It really puts him at a disadvantage and I’m surprised he hasn’t told Boras to go to hell. Gammons, Tim K., and Steve Phillips all said the same thing about this situation. The Red Sox won the bidding at $51 mil. That money goes to the Japanese team that the pitcher belongs to, but only if he signs a contract. If the player is not signed, serious repercussions for the player. First, he cannot go back to the Japanese team he wanted to leave from because they won’t want him back. In this case his not signing would cost them $51 million dollars. Secondly, he cannot attempt to come back to the majors for two years. Meaning he can’t attempt to sign with a major league team until after 2008. The other issue this guy could have is that other Japanese teams could shy away from him knowing that he will bolt in two years or at the very least not give him much money. All these things are the reasons why everyone initially felt this deal would get done because this guy put himself in a difficult position. I still think something will get worked out. Boras can’t be so stupid as to not realize he is not in a position of power like he is with Major League players.

Okay, now I have a trade proposal that could satisfy both the Braves and the Rays and it would involve the Angles. Here it goes. The Braves would send the Angels LaRoche, Diaz or Langerhans, and if they pushed Salty or Escobar. The Rays would get Davies and Joe Saunders from the Angels. The Braves would get Baldelli and Kotchman. The deal would potentially work best for the Rays. They get two young starters who have major experience and in Saunders’ case he had a better than decent year last year filling in for Bartolo Colon. The Angles get LaRoche, who fills their need for a power hitting 1B. They would also get a good 4th OF in either Langy or Diaz. The Braves get their future CF in Baldelli and leadoff hitter. Kotchman can platoon with Thorman to play 1st unless one of them emerge. Kotchman has tremendous talent and upside. I know that word sucks. The Angles would possibly be willing to let Saunders go since he is the odd man out of the rotation (Colon, Lackey, Santana, Escobar, and Weaver). I would think getting LaRoche and a solid 4th Of would more than offset the loss of Saunders and Kotchman. So, what does everyone think? Also, by getting two starters the Rays would be less upset about not getting Chuck James.

Another deal could be with the Angles. The Braves could send Davies, LaRoche, and either Langy or Diaz for Figgins, Saunders, and Kotchman. I personally like the first deal better but this could work. I think the Angles would at least give it some thought. To me the first deal would be better because Baldelli is cheaper than Figgins.

By Royfrom Texas

December 11, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

DOB—This is my first time to make any statements on this Blog, although I’ve been reading the comments of many on this Blog for several years now. I certaintly don’t like what is happening in the Braves’organization to date. Seems like a few of the great leaders that are suppose to be looking out for the fans “that pays the bills” for the Atlanta Braves are not getting their monies worth for supporting this team. Apparently, some “Loco Weed” have been hit a litte to often. Who in in their right mind would give up some of the real good and proven players for some of the other players that we as Braves fans know very little about. Why would you give up LaRoche, Giles, or C. James for anyone at all. I know they are still with the Braves organization as of this writing but, tomorrow they maybe gone just to save a few dollars. JS must have enough money to bring back Giles and keep LaRoche, James, Davies, if he wanted to. Unless he plans on bringing back Jordan, Platt,or Jorge Sosa and others that should be released outright.

By Jared

December 11, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Chuck James should, and probably is, untouchable. After all of Schuerholz’s talk of how much he cares about the pitching again, trading away James would be just about the dumbest thing possible. Keep Chuck James.

By Bobby Cox

December 11, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

I can’t wait to get Baldelli. He’ll fit well in a platoon system with Langerhans, Diaz, Thorman and Jordan.

By brian

December 11, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this

Any thoughts to the Braves trading LaRoche to get a young pitching prospect and then flipping that prospect to the Devil Rays for Baldelli? Or may the Braves be working behind the scenes for a package of prospects for Andruw Jones from the DOdgers or Angels for example and the flipping the pitching prospect to the Devil Rays with Escobar for Baldelli.No way and no how do I trade Chuck James for anybody right now. Look at his stats all the way through the minors. Chuck James has great stuff and has proven himself a winner at every level so far as well as for one half a season in the big leagues.

In my dream GM world, we would have and OF of Kemp, Baldelli, and Francouer with Andy LaRoche the new 3B/IF prospect from the Dodgers while keeping Davies, James, and Salty. Big loss with Andruw of course, but the Braves stand no chance in signing him, trade him somewhere to Andruw’s liking where he can get an extension to Boras’s likingm while the Braves get adequate compensation. If the Blue Jays hold onto Wells, this has to increase Andruw’s value now while giving him some competition for the huge contract next offseason

By Chris Moneymaker

December 11, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

If the Braves nontender Giles, its the same thing as saying goodbye. Else they would have approached him with an offer already.

By KC

December 11, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

Jim: “If we are trying to build a base starting with pitching, we can not trade away James! Who’s left? 40-year old John Smoltz, injured and expensive Mike Hampton, expensive and ineffective Tim Hudson, and TBA (pick two Villareal, Cormier, Davies, ?)”

Jim, first of all, I agree 100% that we cannot trade James. But I’m willing to bet sensitive body parts that Atlanta won’t part with him… so don’t worry. He’s not going anywhere. If the Braves were willing to part with an offensive stud like LaRoche to get pitching, that tells you where their priority is (on pitching). Of course, we already knew that because Schuerholz has made it abundantly clear that the mission this year was to bolster the pitching staff.

I did want to answer a couple other points, however. “Injured and expensive Mike Hampton”. My Hampton isn’t injured. He had ligament replacement surgery, and is recovering nicely. He should be 90-100% by opening day. It takes 18 months to fully recover from Tommy John surgery. Most players return after only 12 months, and struggle a bit at first as a result. Hampton has already pitched in a winter league, and has a full spring ahead to get back in the swing of things. Assuming it doesn’t take too long for Hampton to shake off the rust, in this market, Hampton will be a bargain at 12.5 million.

As for Hudson… yes, he was ineffective last year. Given that it was the first and only poor season of his career, and given the fact that he’s young, healthy, and hasn’t lost any of his stuff… it’s premature to predict a repeat performance. I would be surprised if we see another “ineffective” season from Hudson next year. And at 6 million… he’s anything but expensive (relatively speaking, of course).

Hudson’s “ineffective 2006 season was very comparable to Vicente Padilla’ performance over the last several years… for which he’s about to earn 11 million a season. Ouch. Is this insane or what? Ted Lilly too (11 mill a season)… absolutely inane!!!

Anyway, Hudson is not expensive this season, and really, neither is Hampton… not in this market.

By Mama Giles

December 11, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Last season Marcus had a tender hand, tender thumb, and for a time a tender loin. It is not his fault.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Whats funny is we found a taker for ol’ Jorge and no takers for Giles….thats crazy.

By KC

December 11, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

Royfrom Texas:

Hey, what part of Texas?

The budget constraints are very real, and even if the Braves front office were inclined to go to ownership and beg for a few more million… they can’t do that with the sale of the team pending.

Any of the rumors you hear involving LaRoche, Davies, or anyone from the farm system, has nothing to do with clearing payroll. Giles is the only one here who is likely to be a budget casualty. The Braves won’t part with LaRoche or any of their top prospects unless they are infinitely confident in the player they would get in return.

Had the Braves not landed R.Soriano, the LaRoche-M.Gonzalez trade wouldn’t have been a bad one at all. Fortunately, we did land Soriano, and didn’t have to part with LaRoche to meet those pitching needs. (BTW: I wouldn’t pay to much attention to the “he’s only throwing 91mph in winter league” reports. That means absolutely nothing. I seriously doubt the Braves are in the slightest bit worried about that).

The sad truth is that the payroll constraints have forced the Braves to part with players they have liked to hold onto… Millwood, Giles, etc. And it also forces the Braves to meet needs through trades, rather than by way of free agency. But Schuerholz is doing a masterful job of juggling all of these things, and the Braves aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. I wouldn’t worry about the direction of this franchise. Plenty of young talent here to allow the Braves to hang around the top for a little while.

By KC

December 11, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

CORRECTION: I of course meant to say “Mike Hampton is not injured.”

By billy g

December 11, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

I wish Marcus nothing but the best. Hopefully, he will end up in his hometown and get to play the rest of his career with his brother.

Thanks Marcus.

By Paul

December 11, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this

Under no circumstances should James be traded. Tampa wants too much. I don’t blame them for not wanting Davies. I don’t see him being effective in the A.L. East. As for Giles, I could see him signing with San Diego at the end of the week. DOB, that was not a good report from the scout about Soriano. If this is the case, will the braves trade for another reliever or sign Rietsma.

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

Interesting Freudian slip, KC. :-)

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this

Hey, look there is a guy in Richmond who could be the next Mike Gonzalez. Plus he is Georgia grown. Name: Will Startup. A young lefty who should be ready in a couple of years. P.S. There is no way I would trade Joey Devine

By MBATL

December 11, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

Billy, My WIFI sucks too, but I love her anyway.

As to the Braves: we had the 7th lowest ticket prices in MLB last year (of 30 teams), and the 14th highest attendance. Why is it so criminal that we only have about the 9th highest payroll? Get over it!

In the good ol’ days, Ted owned the Braves, and he also owned TBS… so all the revenue was his, and he was passionate about it. We’re not likely to have an owner or a situation like that again. So now, JS is given a number to work with, just like a department head at any other corporation.

We’ve got to be smart, develop young talent and mix it with veterans, to win. I think it’s more fun than to have the Yanks’ $200 million payroll. Last year, 7 of 8 position players were developed in our system (Renteria being the exception, and depending on who was in LF). I take a little pride in that… but still want to win.

When we went to the WS in ‘91, we were near the bottom of the payroll scale. It can be done, just has to be done smart. And with pitching.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

Robert(JIB): I had read all that about the process for DM. Didn’t know about the 2 year rule. But that was part of my point (on the last blog I think). BoSox don’t have to cave to any demand Borass proposes. Borass is killing DMs MLB career. The process sucks for the player, but that’s the way it is now. Borass is going to have to bite the bullet and just settle for his 6 figure cut.

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

Billy G: You are right. Giles gave us what we wanted for a few years. Now it is time for him to go have fun and play with his brother in his hometown.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

MBATL,

If your comments after the WIFI comment was directed at me I think you should go re-read my post stamped December 11, 2006 05:47 PM.

By Lew

December 11, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

I’ll put up a $100 to keep Giles. Think TW might be interested?

By KC

December 11, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

Grinchy: I know… that sounded gay, didn’t it?

Did you happen to see the basketball quote I posted in the blog the other day?

By KC

December 11, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

I loved the Nick Esasky reference at 6:40. funny stuff. There’s a name I might have soon forgotten has someone not brought him up.

By MBATL

December 11, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

Billy, only the part about WIFI, which was a joke… the rest was for the general pop. No offense intended. Sorry it wasn’t more clear.

By Ron Roberts

December 11, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

If arbitration were run “fairly,”….

…arbitration wouldn’t mean pay raise regardless of production.

I’d like to see arbitration be a situation wher underperforming athletes weren’t given raises everytime they went into arbitration vs. their team. If arbitration worked like that for us, who’d be unhappy with it?

By KC

December 11, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

Lew: since I’m local… send the $100 to me, and I’ll personally approach them about it.

By WedgieBoy

December 11, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Billy, My WIFI sucks too, but I love her anyway.

Good one.

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Did you know that the Braves signed Willie Harris

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

Oh well then I would love her too…the fact..do i dare…that she sucks makes her even more appealing.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

Hey Robert I personally enjoy reading your trade proposals as misguided as some may be. Two things though:

1) Laroche, Davies, Escobar, AND an OF? Sure, as long as we get Kazmir back.

2) I hate myself already for being the one to point this out but for god’s sake it’s the ANGELS dude! You’ve been trying to pull deals with geometry. Dunno why I care…

I say stand pat at this point. Why not try Diaz at leadoff? Good contact guy. I’m guessing he’d be respectable there.

I still say Andruw to the ChiSox for Podsednik and a ton of prospects could work if Chicago ponied up a long-term deal. I know he had an off year but we could do worse than Podsednik and Giles at the top. I’d still stand pat though.

DOB I’m prepared for my scolding for talking Andruw. Next I’ll tell you that music can’t be any good if it isn’t on the radio…

By KC

December 11, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Who the heck is Willie Harris??

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Billy, My WIFI sucks too, and that’s why I love her.

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

KC, I saw it. That was pretty messed up. As for your 8:26, Esasky’s probably forgotten his own name as least as often as you have.

Now, ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL?

Sorry. Hank Just asked me; thought I’d pass it along (pun intended).

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

Something tells me some WIFIs would be whuppin some a*******es if they read this thread…

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

He was supposed to be a Red stud a very long time ago from what I remeber.

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

Willie Harris was the lead-off man before Podsednik went to the WhiteSox. He is an outfieder and a second baseman

By Lew

December 11, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

KC-The way it’s looking, if you me, Metro Dude and Grinch are going to that game over Labor Day, I’m gonna have to spring for the tickets or we may be SOL. I ain’t gonna send you Marcus’ money, too.

By tmoney in ben hill

December 11, 2006 08:45 PM | Link to this

one word on giles….STEROIDS…..

By Lew

December 11, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

KC-Harris is a player with a .238 career BA. Why he keeps coming up in conversations on this blog is totally perplexing to me.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

What another site had ot say about Reitsma

For a few million bucks he’d be a good play in either role. I’d try him as a fifth starter

Just a thought:

He say’s a few millions bucks like its something thats lying around the house. Mabey its me but is it still od to hear money talked about this way?

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah…if I remeber right W. Harris was “cant miss”

By Dale Murphy's Oil Soap

December 11, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DOB. Are their published stats that back up what these scouts tell you they saw of Soriano in Dom. winter league? (particularly the game where he didn’t get out of the first inning).

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

DOB you’ve been syndicated.

By Lew

December 11, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

Tmoney-If it was steroids, then why did Giles start his decline before last year’s advanced testing? Seems to me it was more likely the collission with Andruw and he never regained his upper body strength. Think about the collarbone’s function when swinging the bat.

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

If the Braves would possibly give up Escobar, Davies, and Ryan Langerhans then the D-Rays might bite.

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon, what she doesn’t know can’t hurt me.

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

Something tells me Carolina Lady’s going to be the surrogate WIFI for y’all shortly when she reads this…and I don’t mean in a good way. :-)

By Seunghan Nam

December 11, 2006 09:00 PM | Link to this

Nothing beats money. For what is worth, he was useful until last year. Baseball sucks in this town.

By MBATL

December 11, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this

Billy, yeah, could’ve gone either way with that one…

To all: mlbtraderumors has some commentary on both Horam and Giles, and Reitsma, for those interested.

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this

I was looking on the Pirates site and saw that the only way I would give up LaRoche was if i got Brad Eldred and Gonzalez.

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 09:06 PM | Link to this

Grinch, sshhhh. Don’t need no split tails harpin’ on us on monday night football night.

By Lew

December 11, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Daniel-Just why in the world would they jump at the deal with Langerhans included instead of Salty? I’m afraid you’ll have to explain your logic on that one.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

So it’s good when WIFIs suck but bad when baseball sucks. All this talk about sucking. This sucks!

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

Please dont give inot the unnamed indivduals demand for flame war….just ignore like I should of awile back

By brian

December 11, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

beat me to it Lew

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

The reason is that Salty would not be the key part of the trade because the D-Rays already have a young catcher in Navarro. If the Braves gave up Langerhans then the Dvil Rays would have time to properly develop Delmon Young

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

Tony Kornheiser sux. I bet he’s somebody’s WIFI.

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

Uracher is a beast. Stephen Jackson (who is a big, fast, Cro-Magnon power back) just ran into him full speed with a stiff-arm out and still got knocked back a yard.

Lew, they were 301’s; I went to the site. Funny how Bose wants literally twice as much for their speakers as Circuit City does. Must come in a nicer box. What do you think of Klipsch?

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon, suck it up. This too shall pass.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

Is flame war found on the LOGO network?

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Yeah, weasel; I ain’t too sure about Kornholer myself. You can tell Theismann just wants to kick his @$$ sometimes; Tirico’s just basically there to change the subject when things get tense.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Circuit City and Best Buy sell entry level equipment and that stuff is really garage IMO….if your talking about car audio.

By Shakes the Clown

December 11, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Be of good cheer. Its gonna get better. Life is good. Love is in the air. You have what it takes.

So just let go. Until the sun goes down. Cause its gonna get better. Keep on keepin’ on. See what I mean?

By Jim Hertel

December 11, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

It seems that by reading between the lines (on various sites) there are other issues concerning Marcus Giles — not just money. Is it possible everyone points to his declining production at the plate because he had “help” previously? Is it something in the clubhouse we can’t see?

Also, I, too, was thrilled with Chuck James’ last half of the season. It was awesome, but it was only a half season. It sems that there was concern over how good James would be, because he doesn’t throw hard or have a lot of different pitches. Maybe we shouldn’t get too attached to Chuck. He may not be the sure thing. In life and baseball, opinions can change at blinding speed. Does anyone remember Craig McMurtry?

By Choppin Bob

December 11, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

Bring back Lemmer! Bring back Lemmer!

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Nicely done Weasel.

Since the baseball news is a little slow…

Know what else sucks? Serial forwarders. I have this simple aunt over in L.A. (y’all should know I ain’t talking about California) who just learned to use the internet in the last year or so.

Man I love her but she feels the need to send every damned chain letter, PSA (legit and otherwise), and mostly-being a Sunday School teacher- all sorts of religious stuff. Gets on my NERVES. I digress and apologize openly for it…

By David

December 11, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

There are not 20 players in the majors I would trade for Chuck James and Rocco Baldelli is certainly not one of them. That discussion should be a non-starter for us.

By Shakes the Clown

December 11, 2006 09:43 PM | Link to this

Does anyone understand? Or is it pointless? Because the night…

It won’t win. Sol will come out again.

Great is the day. At least it shines. Yet it too dips from the sublime.

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you picked up on that Theismann vibe, too? I think Korn will get his can kicked before it’s all over. I miss Paul Maguire.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

Anybody remember the indirect shot DOB took at Giles locker-room behavior a few days ago? Not sure if he intended it that way but from what I remember I was not the only one to get that impression.

Well I see this comment by M. Bowman. “There are a number of reasons for the Braves to cut ties with Giles. But it’s best to simply explain it from this financial perspective.”

Now DOB I don’t expect you to read Bowman’s mind but what kind of other factors that you know of besides financial would the lead Braves to cut Giles? I know your answer likely to be drop in production but I would imagine Bowman could of posted stats easily enough to further validate his point, just as you did. I have a feeling there is more to the Giles thing than what our esteemed journalist is letting on, which I would understand. It would not help your career much if you start blasting a player on an internet blog.

Either way, this makes two journalists that have indirectly pointed to other factors influencing the Atlanta Braves to cut Giles.

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah, it’s like Theismann doesn’t like being contradicted sarcastically by someone who never played, but he’s not as quick mentally so he can’t go blow-by-blow that way. I can tell he just wants to take him outside. I bet late Monday nights at a bar he does some serious s-talkin’ to anyone who’ll listen.

Billy, I agree about the car stuff; was talking about home stereo bookshelf speakers.

Georgia Southern in the house! Did y’all see Adrian Petersen totally paste that Rams kickoff returner at the 5?

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

Grossman belongs on the All Kornholio Team.

By stinky

December 11, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

MBATL,just read the mlbrumors latest story. Man, I’d hate to see Giles playing for the Mets, and playing angry against the Braves. Let him sign with the Padres, not a division rival!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon, I didn’t suggest giving up Escobar. If I did, I misspoke. My proposal I don’t believe is that misguided. I said send LaRoche and either Diaz or Langerhans to the Angels. The Angels would send Saunders to the Rays and Kotchman to the Braves. The Braves would receive Baldelli and send Davies to the Rays. It would be a deal that would potentially please all parties. The Braves would not have to give up Salty or Escobar. I think the Angles could see Saunders and Kotchman as a fair exchange for LaRoche and an OF. With LaRoche Kotchman becomes unnecessary and they could use a 4th OF. The Rays would get two starters who are young, cheap, and have major league experience just like they want. I don’t think Davies alone would do it but coupled with Saunders would be quite a deal. The guy went 7-3 last year in 13 starts. The Braves get Baldelli who serves as the leadoff hitter and CF for the next five years and in Kotchman they get a 1B who has tremndous talent and in the end will be as good as LaRoche if not better. So, what exactly is wrong with the deal. The other plus to it is that none of the teams would be adding significant payroll since the most expensive player of the bunch would be LaRoche at $2.5 mil.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 10:05 PM | Link to this

If that corner had picked that ball off they wouldn’t be lauding Grossman for “staying with thw route”. And I like the perspective on Grossman being out of his slump while completing 40 percent. We all must have misread Hudson’s season. ERAs under 5 are great!!

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 10:06 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon, got one of those myself. Love her upside down and backwards… but she is into email chain letters. And don’t go hatin’ on the Lower A.

By Carroll

December 11, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this

It sucks to lose Marcus from a personal standpoint, but DOB makes a very good statistical argument for why we should not bend over backwards to keep him as his skills/abilities continue to rapidly diminish.

After all, we would’ve never even known Giles had BC and JS not made the tough decision to part ways with the wily veteran Quilvio Veras. Methinks it’s time to find the next Gilly. I only wish we could’ve gotten something for him.

By falcone

December 11, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

hmmmmm….. with giles, not steroids, you say?…… are you so sure about that?…….. it is funny that when testing started or was getting ready to start, that the production of each giles brother was nowhere near what it has once been…… hmmmmmm……. can you pass me whatever you are smoking, so that i can join you in the land of blissful ignorance……

BTW, chipper jones looks awfully smaller these days, doesn’t he? he also looks awfully hurt alot too doesn;t he? hmmmmmmm….. connection, anyone?……hmmmmm….. i wonder…….. chipper’s injuries do seem like a bunch of former steroid user injuries - body ain’t recovering well without the arnold juice …. muscles too big for puny bones and ligaments and tendons ….. strains happen as a result ….. gets off the arnold juice, body does not know how to react …….. thus injury after injury after injury. . … . .

druw, on the other hand, not so much steroids i do not think…… he once was a wiry little thing who became americanized and married a woman who feeds him and feeds him and feeds him and feeds him some more…… how did our skinny little kid centerfielder turn into jerome bettis out there roaming center? lay off the big macs already druw …. you do not need to become so americanized and become a whale like the rest of us …… BTW, who on here does not think that andruw is going to show up about 25-30 pounds lighter in spring training for his big contract walkoff tour? (a la Mr. Javy Lopez in his free agent contract walk year) ….. just you watch ….. being lighter and in his contract year, i bet you he will also remember that he used to be able to steal 20-30 bases —- watch, he will be stealing again next year…… we will also see him get to more fly balls and get back to being the druw the excellent fielder we all remember - he has not been that fielder for some time now - he still is a top centerfielder but he is no longer the best defensively - he was once without peer - there was no peer anywhere even near his league - that ain’t so no more ——- in 1999, he had 493 putouts. in 2006, he had 378 putouts. That means he caught 115 less balls last year than he did in 1999 - and you wonder why there was some pitching problems? more hits were falling in - actually alot more more hits are dropping down in center than they use to (THE PITCHING SUX TOO). Druw’s Range Factor in 1999 was 3.15. Druw’s range factor in 2006 was 2.61 after a 2005 season in which his Range Factor was 2.48. That is a huge dropoff from a fielding performance standpoint. in every season up to 1999, he caught 90% of every ball hit in his zone. in 2000, 2001, & 2002, he caught 88% of the balls hit in his zone. in 2003 & 2004, he caught 84% of the balls hit in his zone. in 2005, that number went back up to 87%. But then in 2006, he only caught 84.6% of the balls hit in his zone. again, a huge dropoff. BECAUSE DRUW IS A LAZY FAT UNDISCIPLINED AMERICANIZED SLOB. why doesn’t bobby or someone ever say hey druw mix in a salad, hit the treadmill, pick up a weight, and lay off the mcdonalds already? then you wonder why his mechanics break down so much. how could it not? all of us know that when we are overweight, we wilt faster, breakdown faster, our body & mind goes, our discipline goes, our mechanics go, we got lazy because we are too tired to keep working hard and thus we spend the last 2 months of a season destroying all the great discipline and mechanics you used to his 50 Hrs the year before and you end up on every swing down on one knee taking the craziest most undisciplined swing in the majors where you invariably end up falling down a third of the time after you go down to one knee to jerk balls out. does anyone really remember the days when druw would make incredible catches all the time? that really is not happening anymore, is it? because we have jerome bettis (kirby puckett) playing center field. which is fine but not when i used to have michael vick playing center field out there. for anyone who wants to say that he is still making those catches, the passage of time is fooling you and you are forgetting how those plays happened at least once a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3520&context=fielding

By Carroll

December 11, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

RObert: if the Halos were unwilling to send a pitcher in return for LaRoche and Giles, then what on earth makes you think they’d give up a pitcher for ROach and Diaz/Langy? Really nice try, but I just don’t see it. Maybe if we threw in Salty or Escobar (as you originally suggested)…I think that would be a good deal for the Braves.

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

stinky, you gutless poser. Get off this blog, now.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

I just read the info piece on mlbtraderumors.com about Giles. I think its very true. In defense of Giles he was hurt a lot last year and toughed it out quite a bit. The time he did miss was because Bobby forced him to sit. And I will reiterate that he had a very strong second half of the season. I think plenty of teams are interested in Giles. They just know the Braves have to non-tender him. So, with that knowledge, why would they trade for him when they can simply sign him as a free agent and give up no players. What is so hard for some people to understand about that. All these Giles bashers out here may have to eat their words because one of the teams mentioned as picking him up is the Mets. I think it would be a great pickup for the Mets. Giles would be an upgrade defensively over Jose Valentine and all in all is a better offensive threat. I hope he doesn’t go to the Mets but it is quite possible. You don’t think Omar won’t attempt to snatch him up tomorrow night if he can. Get real. Giles is a good 2B who had to deal with injuries and hitting leadoff which he was not comfortable with.

By Carroll

December 11, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

DOB: your report on Soriano is very ominous. Sounds like another Reeksma. We should try to pull off the trade with the Pirates for Gonzo if at all possible.

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Carroll, forsooth, thou speeketh truth.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

Carroll, the Angels weren’t unwilling to give up a pitcher for LaRoche. They were unwilling to give up Santana or Shields. There is a difference there. The same as the Braves aren’t unwilling to give up a pitcher to the Rays. They just won’t give up James. The reason I suggested Saunders is because the Angles might give him up. He is a good pitcher but nowhere near the quality of pitcher that Santana is. The Angles won’t give up Santana for the same reason the Braves won’t give up James. So, I think there is a difference there.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Whither DOB? Here’s hoping he found a sucking surrogate WIFI for the evening…

And hope she resembles Virginia Madsen…

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

why would you want Kotchman when you could have Eldred a right-handed bat. H could platoon with Thorman

By Old Guy

December 11, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

Does anyone remember the halftime highlights on Monday Night Football way back in the day when they had that theme music and Howard Cosell? This was before ESPN took the luster out of highlights. Back when I took offense for Cosell saying:”And Bill Anders takes it in all the way…”

By WedgieBoy

December 11, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

RobertJITB, forsooth, thou speekest truth.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

With a name like Kotchman you had better perform. Fans here started calling one player Reeksma. I can only imagine what would happen with a K(r)otchman…

By brian

December 11, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Carroll - probably can get some chatter with trade talk on the Angels though DOB will remind us that Santana is untouchable, though I don’t believe anyone is untouchable.For example, I would trade Chuck James (who I consider untouchable) if for example it was James and LaRoche for Justin Verlander - not going to happen of course.

The Angels do not need Escobar because they have a top SS prospect Erik Aybar and 2B prospect in Howie Kendrick. Would they send us Santana, Figgins, and Kotchman for LaRoche and Salty - I doubt it because I would jump at that for the Braves.

By Troy

December 11, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Just a few thoughts?

I like the Baldelli idea, but JS surely won’t give up too much to get him, plus if you are the D-Rays you are dealing from a position of strength, I mean he is a young cheap productive player who they don’t absolutely have to get rid of so why not ask for a lot in return and hope that some really desperate GM gives you a riduculous package of players in return (hopefully that won’t be JS)!

LaRoche is staying in Atlanta he should and I think he is viewed as a cornerstone player for at least the next few years. McCann, Franceour, LaRoche would be an awesome 3,4,5 on any team that didn’t already have The Jones’ boys occupying two/thirds of those spots already.

On that note how excting could our offense be next year with Andruw in a contract year and Chipper seeing all of those fastballs in front of him, Don’t be surprised if a chipper stays healthy and plays 145 games to see Chipper and Andruw in the top 5 in MVP voting next year.

I also like the idea of Kelly Johnson at 2B, he should be able to pick it up and at least be servicable defensively, he swings a good stick and a full healthy year he should at least match and probably better Giles’ offensive production of the last few years

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon, you suggested trading Andruw to the White Sox for Posednik and some prospects. How is that proposal any less sillier than mine. I’m just wondering, man. I realize some of my proposals are out of reach but I get a bit too much ridiculed for them when the one I made is actually quite sensible and the one you suggested is misguided at best. Would you rather have 29 year old Posednik for one year or 25 year old Baldelli for the next five?

By rupert

December 11, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

the baldeli deal is done, espn’s stark is reporting it should be announced by wednesday or thursday. looks like jojo reyes, escobar and cormier for baldeli with some contract stipulations picked up by the braves. time will tell if this is a good trade….

By berigan

December 11, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Who cares about football!!!!!!!! Bah Humbug, and all that! Lets talk about Reitsma! :)

By Troy

December 11, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

The Braves should focus more on trying to aqquire another starting pitcher somehow I don’t know how or where but I am sure JS has some guys on his radar

What is the word on John Thomson he seems to not be getting any attention from anyone might he take some sort of one year incentive laden deal with ATL or would they even want him?

By Troy

December 11, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

rupert where did you see/hear that?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

What if we traded LaRoche straight up for either Figgins or Baldelli? How bad of a trade would that be?

Also, I don’t put any stock in those reports from winter ball about Soriano. First of all, who says he is even giving his all. Perhaps, he is just getting himself back into shape and doesn’t want to stress his arm out for the actual major league season. Perhpas spending six or seven weeks throwing as hard as he can in winter ball and then having to pitch all summer long would put too much stress on his arm so he is simply to just trying to get a feel back for his pitches. Its possible. Plus, like DOB said, I have a hard time believing JS and the scouts didn’t thoroughly look over Soriano including winter ball and missed any warning signs. The reason that deal was done instead of the one with the Pirates is because the Braves didn’t want to really get rid of LaRoche. Now, they still may get rid of LaRoche but at the time that was the better deal. I get sick of all the negative bs on here. I can’t believe people are really putting stock into winter ball. The Arizona Fall League is one thing but “winter ball”. And perhaps, Soriano hasn’t recovered from getting hit by Vlad and that is why he is in winter ball. He is getting his bearings about him so that way when spring training starts he will be ready to go. Everyone needs to relax. Sometimes too much information can be bad.

By fantasy GM

December 11, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

If all the fantasy trades happened that have been discussed the past few days, this is what it could look like. Of course, the Braves probably would not do half these trades, the other teams would balk at many, and of course as DOB likes to remind us Andruw will not be traded (Though he and Boras need to be sent to the West Coast NOW)

The Braves trade LaRoche to the Angels for Figgins and Erik Aybar. The Braves trade Salty, Escobar, and Davies for Rocco Baldelli. The Braves trade Andruw Jones (with new extension of course) to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp, Andy LaRoche, and Chad Billingsley.

Figgins 2B Renteria SS Baldelli CF Chipper 3B McCann C Francoeur RF Kemp LF Andy LaRoche 1B (will switch back to 3B when Chipper retires)

SP: Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson, James, Billingsley

Erik Aybar can step in for Renteria when his contract is up and is a much higher regarded prospect than his brother. Aybar could also be sent instead of Salty to the Rays instead of Salty.

Now that would be an interesting off season. We would be well under the $80 million cap and have room to resign Francoeur and McCann to extensions, then work on Baldelli next.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

Rupert, are you sure about that? Is Stark’s report on ESPN.com or on television.

Folks, if this is true, the Braves and JS just made another steal! OMG! I love Escobar but Andrus is there and a better all around prospect who will be ready by the time Renteria leaves. And giving up Cormier instead of Davies isn’t really all that bad.

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

December 11, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

I’m an offense guy and think the Braves always come up short in the post season when key hits are needed.

That said I think we need one more arm and I know Bobby has always had a woody for Tony Armas Jr. from the Nats. I know that he had some arm problems in the past but, what pitcher hasn’t. I feel a lot better with Armas as my fifth than Cormier or “Everyday Oscar” at the back of my rotation.

I like Baldelli, alot but if you give up James and Escobar then Crawford has to be the end result. Make them throw Casey Fossum in as filler.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

It’s simple for me. Leadoff isn’t that critical. I’m not saying Baldelli isn’ t worthy, but I’m not sure I want to marry a player for five years that has a suspect injury history, even at a cheap price. Podsednik wouldn’t be the key to the deal…hopefully we’d get some solid major league prospects. My next thought was trading Renteria and prospects to Baltimore for Tejada. Obviously that would only happen if Andruw left for salary reasons and they got rid of Giles. Podsednik, Diaz, Chipper,Tejada, McCann, Francoeur, LaRoche, Prado. Whew!!! Dreaming, of course…

By brian

December 11, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

rupert - where did you find Stark reporting that deal??????

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

John Thomson is a very interesting situation. Since Giles appears to be gone, I wonder if a 1 year/$1 mil deal with incentives to possibly increase it to $2 mil would interest Thomson. It is worth a shot. If he doesn’t make the team in spring training, no harm no foul. I like the idea of him and Davies fighting it out for the #5 spot. If Thomson wins it, perhaps send Davies to AAA to get a bit more seasoning. If Davies gets it, Thomson could go to the bullpen. Not to mention that if Thomson does bounce back, he would be quite some trade bait at the deadline in July.

By Troy

December 11, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

rupert are you just throwing crap out there

By TRocks

December 11, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Rupert is lying his a* off. Don’t listen to him.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:55 PM | Link to this

Rupert, where are you, man. I went to ESPN and didn’t see that report anywhere. Where did you hear this from?

By Weasel

December 11, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best), Don’t even speak of Thomson as trade bait. JS got way too cute pickin’ up his option to use him as trade bait. It bit the Braves in the a* big time. Dump him and move if you’re JS.

By DCarp23

December 11, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

DOB: If they Braves do nontender Reitsma and bring him back, or they offer him arbitration, do you think they would ever give him any consideration as a candidate for the fifth starter? He certainly was effective as a starter at the beginning of his career and gets a lot of ground ball outs. Without knowing too much about pitching, it seems that perhaps a change of scenery might do the man some good as well.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

This smells fishy. Rupert has all of a sudden disappeared.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

Shakes the Clown … very funny movie. Dark, disturbing, funny.

Hadn’t looked at MLBrumors, but Stinky brought up a team, the Mets, that a San Diego writer and me were just discussing, in the Giles matter.

This Padres beat writer think his team will go after Giles, but doesn’t know how high they might go. And the Mets, obviously, if they want to can blow them out of the water with an offer. Of course, Giles is going to go to S. Diego if it’s even close….

Having said all this, watch the Braves tender him a contract tomorrow … but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

DOB, this Rupert guy reported the Braves have a deal in place for Baldelli. Any truth to this? Or this guy lying? He claims Jayson Stark reported it but I can’t find it anywhere.

By A.J.

December 11, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

Can anyone help me understand this?

I was wondering why Aybar doesn’t seem to be getting much talk for secondbase. He gets mentioned but it’s usually Prado who gets most of the talk.

I know it’s not his first position, but he should be at least passable (I mean better at this point than Kelly Johnson).

I just don’t understand why he’s not the favorite with his numbers, I would understand if they were just waiting to see what happens in the spring, but just look at his numbers, small sample though they may be.

Career (105 games, 329 AB) he has a .292 BA and a .387 OBP. I realize that’s not a sure thing that he’ll be too great playing every day, but why not take a shot.

In 26 games with LA in 2005, 43 in 2006 and 36 in ATL last year, his OBP in each stint was .448, .356, and .373. That kind of discipline from a 23 year old is very exciting, even in small amounts.

Again, a very small sample size, but in 65 ABs batting #1 for us, he hit .323 and had a .371 OBP.

His minor league numbers only support this. In the minors this season he was .314 BA, .385 OBP, plus has been .318/.400 in winter league. In 2005 he was .297/.356.

As far as second base, he has only played 122 innings there in the majors, but in that time he only made 1 error for a .987 F%.

It is true that all of these are very small samples, but it seems like he hasn’t had a bad “sample” his whole career. Don’t you sample someone to see how they do? When they do great wouldn’t you let them try it full-time?

I really like Kelly Johnson and hope he finds a spot getting some field time with us (we just have way too many, hard hustling great character, solid but certainly not great leftfielders). And I don’t know how good Prado is, but I’ve not seen anything that would say he’d be as good as Aybar has been.

But is there some other thing like in scouting that keeps us from using Aybar as an at least nearly full-time 2b, leadoff man? Is there something I don’t see in the stats? Are we just trying to take our time developing a young guy?

I really hated to see Betemit go (it makes it even worse to go back now and see his stats), it made the deal worse when Baez got appendicitis, then left, so amounted to very little for us (except a new draft pick), but I was always excited by the prospect of Aybar and seeing his career stats makes him even more exciting.

It seems like he could already be in a position to make a very big impact, and at 23, he should only get better, but for the last two years, all he’s done is get on base.

By TRocks

December 11, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

Rupert is just trying to get a rise out of the denizens. Lets forget the banter. No way would TB take JoJo as the supposed “top pitching prospect” that they so covet for Baldelli. Even ATL scouts are uncertain how good he’s going to be.

By E-Money

December 11, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

please do not listen to rupert…his post makes no sense…”contract stipulations picked up by the braves”..like what?? they traded 2 minor leaguers and cormier…there are no stips that could be worked out…and tanpa has already declined a deal much better than that which included salty, escobar and davies…go commit suicide somewhere rupert

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I think old Rupert was lying. If the story were true, he would be on here siting some sort of evidence.

By Nelson Hawkins

December 11, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

Interesting article from a NW sportswriter, clarifying Braves’ interest in T.J. Bohn and more piling on Bill Bavasi for dealing Soriano for HoRam:

[http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/brian_meehan/index.ssf?/base/sports/116580572335850.xml&coll=7]

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

DOB, can you officially squash this rumor of the Baldelli trade so we can move or at least me? Please?

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 11:20 PM | Link to this

Monday Night Football isn’t anywhere near as cool as it used to be, no question. But it’s still by far the coolest thing on on Monday nights.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

Do you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

Ring Ring…

JS: Hello

DOB: Hi John its DOB from the AJC

JS: OK

DOB: Yeah I know it’s midnight and all and you just workd your butt off at the winter meetngs but this guy posted on my blog that you guys completed a trade with the D-Rays with the key peice being Cormier. I was wonder if you would like to commet.

JS: …… click

DOB: hello, JS?

JS: beep beep

DOB: Damn internet

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Yes, Billy, I feel hook, line, and sinker. In all seriousness though, I think that IF the Rays deal Baldelli it will be to the Braves because they have the best offer.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

Holy crap! ESPN is reporting that the Marlins are sending Willis and Cabrera to the Braves for Chad Paronto and Pete Orr!

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

Nelson, I don’t want to register to read that article, but just curious, what do you mean “interest” in Bohn. Braves already have him on their roster _ they claimed him off waivers from Mariners last month.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

A.J., the Braves don’t want Aybar to be the regular second baseman because, a., they need him to be ready to play third base for possibly extended stretches when Chipper’s hurt, and even when Chipper’s healthy, they want to rest him more and try to keep him healthy by playing Aybar a lot. And b, Aybar’s not as good there as he is on the left side of the infield.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

I had to do it robert. You do know that I meant no harm in it, right?

By TRocks

December 11, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Gammons has just reported that the Braves and Yankees have agreed in principal to a deal that will send Andruw Jones to the Yankees in exchange for ARod, with whih they will pick up the remaining 3/4 of his contract, and will also throw in Phill Hughes and Melky Cabrera.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 11:48 PM | Link to this

No Virginia look-alikes tonight DOB? Maybe we’ll all chip in and rent one for an evening for you. You earned it last week.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, Billy. All good in fun. I just should no better than fall for some crap like what Rupert posted. I do think another deal is in the works. I sure hope it isn’t that one that the Pittsburgh people were reporting earlier. On the surface I would say its ridiculous but the JS was going to make that deal with the O’s anything is possible.

DOB, what have you heard about Baldelli. A Chicago paper said the deal is dead because the Rays said no. What about the Angels? Do they still have interest in LaRoche?

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

Hey Phalcon, that deal sux for the Braves. We won’t have Orr’s speed off the bench.

Devin Hester is absolutely sick, speaking of speed off the bench. How cool is that? To be payed millions to play maybe four or five snaps every game and still be considered a candidate for your team’s MVP? Dude has 14 points tonight for the Bears, and ONLY RETURNS KICKOFFS.

By Phat Phalcon

December 11, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this

It’s been fun folks. I guess the Bears have it all locked up. G’night all.

By John

December 11, 2006 11:59 PM | Link to this

Why are there so many people upset that Giles might play elsewhere. I like his scrappy play also…but he’s awful. All he does is swing for the fences…not a good base runner…just horrible. And did someone bring up Pete Orr…oh no.

By Sonny

December 12, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

Notice how Giles production started dropping around the time baseball began testing for steroids. As much as I want to believe that Braves players are clean, his drastic loss in production does raise some questions.

By TheWyzyrd

December 12, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

DOB, Here’s was the Oregonian columnist named Meehan said about Bohn. Sounds like he’s a steal. TheWyz

For several seasons, Seattle has talked about developing young players but done a poor job of it. (Even the Mariners couldn’t miss the exceptions to that statement: shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt and second baseman Jose Lopez.)

But infielder Greg Dobbs, who has been an outstanding hitter at every level, got 27 at-bats in 23 games with Seattle last season. Jones, the franchise’s top prospect, got a whopping 74 at-bats in 32 games, but manager Mike Hargrove often pinch hit for him late in games. T.J. Bohn, the best athlete in Seattle’s minor leagues, got 14 at-bats in 18 games. Choo was given the briefest of looks before being dealt to Cleveland.

Even an All-Star would struggle at the plate with the equivalent of about one at-bat a game.

Atlanta claimed Bohn on waivers shortly after Seattle posted him this month. Atlanta’s front office simply called Dave Brundage for a reference after hiring the former Seattle minor league manager to direct its Triple A team in Richmond, Va. Bohn played for Brundage last season in Tacoma before Brundage, a former minor league manager of the year, was fired by Seattle. Brundage gave Bohn a hearty endorsement, and another talented Seattle prospect was gone — for nothing in return.

By brian

December 12, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this

I am not upset about Giles leaving at all though I like him as a player. I am a little upset that he is going to leave with no compensation to the Braves whatsoever.

I am upset that we are doing nothing on the Andruw Jones front (sorry DOB - I love “beating a dead horse”). If it is obvious that we cannot sign him, we need to do everything to move him now - to help our team next year and in the future. I realize it is no small undertaking, but that is why JS is the best. Convince the Angels or the Dodgers, etc to negotiate with Boras now for the extension then get appropriate compensation back - a good young arm and a top OF prospect. The Angels and the Dodgers have what we are looking for in Ervin Santana and Billingsley. Throw in Figgins or Kemp and one other prospect and the Braves do it. Why do the Angels or Dodgers do it? The get the gold glove CF who will lower their pitcher’s ERA (especially in spacious Dodger Park) while hitting 40+ homeruns and driving in 120+RBIs as a nice perk and have him for the next 6 years or so. Seeing Vlad and Andruw swing back to back would be exciting - lots of long balls and air conditioning with the big swings and misses the other times.

Andruw Jones could be our Hershel Walker and set us up for some championship runs in the future. Or he can sign elsewhere and the Braves get squat

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this

Thanks DOB,

That makes sense, especially since he is still young. But I do hope that he shows the kind of skill he has thus far that they will find a way to get him in the lineup more, most likely at 2nd.

By flbravesgirl

December 12, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this

Is everyone else just sick of the rumor mill? Who sits around and dreams up this stuff?

KC, re: your post earlier, I have always thought LaRoche looked exactly like Bert. The unibrow just kills me. Makes me want to get tweezers or wax strips and hunt him down.

By rupert

December 12, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

OK,OK I was lieing to y’all..just wanted to get y’all riled up and it worked…I win!…but so would the Braves if they snag Rocco!!!

By Mitchie-san

December 12, 2006 12:40 AM | Link to this

flbravesgirl…LOL, thats not nice!

By rupert

December 12, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this

hey that was not the real rupert (above), i was not lying, my people inside tell me that it looks almost done, problem lies that baldeli wants all his options etc. extended now, the braves are balking; stark must of had to take his breaking news link down b/c when i went to copy and paste it was gone, this one was as good as done at 7 tonight, but it may all fall apart…

By flbravesgirl

December 12, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

I know, Mitchie-san, and I actually like Adam but he would look so much better if he’d do something about that eyebrow situation. It really bugs me. I don’t know why his wife hasn’t gotten after him about it. Guess she doesn’t mind.

And that’s probably more than enough discussion of his grooming for the rest of the blog, lol.

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

Why would it matter if Baldelli wants his options taken now in your supposed deal?

Baldelli doesn’t have no-trade rights anyway.

By rupert

December 12, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this

Again, I’m just messing w/ u AJ, but look…it worked again! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Of course Baldelli doesnt have any options, he has no say in if he gets traded or not! lol

By Mitchie-san

December 12, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

You are right about both things, no more grooming discussions and he does look like Bert…. ;)

By bwash21

December 12, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

Baldelli is too young to have any options. No one, not even the D’Rays would give 2 hoots about Cormier. I for one will be shocked if TB does a deal with Atlanta. I think they are too intimidated to deal with JS and would rather save face than potentially let JS get the best of them. If we did indeed offer Escobar and Salty with Davies, they are idiots not to do that deal given the state of their franchise. They already have Of’s to plug in for Baldelli and would get one of the top catching prospects (a switch hitter no less!!) as well as one of the top SS prospects and a pitcher with a hell of a future.

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

Check this out.

Dave O’Brien, Schuerholtz Propagandist?

This is really pathetic. Keep in mind that the guy writing this is a blogger for the Devil Rays compared to O’Brien, a real-life journalist.

Maybe when this other fella grows up he can write in the newspaper too.

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 01:20 AM | Link to this

FBG, I said in the last blog that while LaRoche does look like Bert he looks even more like Beaker from the Muppets. Similar look regardless. Essential differences: Bert has Darker hair, and has often recently been the subject of gay rumours. Roachy being fair and (as far as we know) hetro makes him more Beaker-like, IMO. Plus, the chin is even less prominent, if possible.

YES, I LIKE WALNUTS IN MY CAKE. :-) UPS will do nicely. What would you like in return? Be careful of Christmas wishes to Grinches…you may not be done with your tile but I’d bet your chimney is finished…:-)

By berigan

December 12, 2006 01:34 AM | Link to this

DOB, that comment attributed to stinky? I have it on good authority that he didn’t actually write that comment about Giles possibly ending up with the mets. Lets just say a little birdy told me.

By flbravesgirl

December 12, 2006 01:44 AM | Link to this

Yes, Grinch, but Beaker is often in a state of wide-eyed, squeaky panic while Bert never changes expression. As for the other part, Adam is married w/ 2 kids.

Now, Red Velvet Cake. I normally use pecans but walnuts would work too. (Made Sugared Pecans & Almonds today) I would not use UPS however, being the daughter of a longtime US Postal worker. In return? Amethysts would be nice. And sorry but there’s no chimney here at my Florida place.

Honestly, the cake wouldn’t ship well.

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 01:49 AM | Link to this

you can’t actually get someone when they don’t believe you.

I guess it was my mistake for responding to you, but I guess I’m doing it again (I assure you, it will be the last time).

But pointing out how your post does not make sense, does not mean that I believe your post.

BTW, just get get this right techincally, he does have “options” or more correctly the D-Rays do. They are actually team options I believe, one for 2008 and another for both ‘09 and ‘10.

He does not, I don’t believe, have a no-trade clause, which is what I believe you meant bwash. And of course, why exercise it to stay in TB over Atlanta.

By gotigers72

December 12, 2006 01:58 AM | Link to this

Count me as one of the fans that would be offended by a non tender to Marcus. His stats may have dropped, but he’s still a big part of the heart of the Braves with his hustle and enthusiasm. He may not steal many bases, but he is one of the best BASERUNNERS that the Braves have. He also has no fear at 2nd, specifically when a runner is about to wipe him out on a double play ball. What happened to Bobby’s philosophy that pitching and defense is what wins games? There aren’t over 2-3 better 2nd basemen defensively than Marcus.

There should be some middle ground between the ridiculous cheapskate ways [yes, I know there are other payrolls that are less than the Braves] that are employed now, and the free spending ways of the Yankees, Red Sox, and now the Cubs even.

I also feel that the Braves don’t have an adequate replacement for Marcus. I have not been impressed by Prado at all. He just had a terrible stint in winter ball, and he didn’t exactly tear it up in AAA either. His AAA numbers don’t equate to being able to cut the mustard in MLB. I think Kelly Johnson will one day be a good ML hitter, but I saw him play AA ball in the minors when he was a SS. Fans behind first base had to wear helmets and take out extra insurance when he was at short. He made a ton of errors. Maybe Hubbard can help him learn to play second, but as far as a minor league infielder, do the names Steve Sax and Chuck Knoblauch ring a bell?

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 02:18 AM | Link to this

Hustle and enthusiasm aren’t worth 7.5 % of your payroll.

Everyone wants to keep him, and they probably all believe he’ll do better than last year, but don’t take it personal tomorrow night when he’s a free agent.

Even if it was guaranteed that he would hit .300 and 50 doubles next year, it’s still 6 million we don’t have. Someone has to go, and (since there is no magical guarantee) he’s the only option.

Besides, given payroll concerns, if he would have a good season for us this year, he’d probably be gone next year in free agency.

By winnie

December 12, 2006 02:23 AM | Link to this

boy, i love reading all you whiners who go on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on …

and don’t say nuthin’

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 03:00 AM | Link to this

FBG, the Amythyst is an interesting stone indeed. It protects crops against locusts, beautifies the skin, etc. It has also been touted as being able to quell stomach acid. Interesting as applied to a baker (though I doubt not your talents). It is also said to protect its wearer against seduction. Chaste, trust, piety, etc. Are you trying to tell me something? It is also known as a stone of friendship, and to inspire the intellect. What am I to make of all this? Or do you just like the color violet?

By berigan

December 12, 2006 03:13 AM | Link to this

gotigers72, the names names Steve Sax and Chuck Knoblauch ring a bell. But not one I often want ringed!!!

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 03:16 AM | Link to this

Oh, my god. Please, all of you read ESPN’s story about the Red Sox and Matsuzaka. They’re actually increasing their offer (despite no counteroffer from Boras), and are essentially releasing statements to the media about how important it is to baseball that he gets signed at whatever cost he and his agent please. Boras is countering with “pitchers of this ilk on the free agent market are getting 100 million.” The Sox are saying “Yes, we know, Daddy; just give us a couple more days and we’ll come up with a package to your liking.” Essentially, they’re doing Boras’ work for him, despite the fact that they had him totally bent over a barrel. What in the world. Is Epstien really this stupid, inept and worthless, or does Boras have some photos we’d all like to see? This disturbs me more than many other things in the world today that ought to. Epstien is payed LOTS of money not to be a dumbass. Why, then, is he suddenly, unequivocably the biggest dumbass ever when in the position to do whatever he pleases? This is beyond bizzare, and I think congress ought to investigate what the hell’s really going on.

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 03:19 AM | Link to this

This is b******. Really. Investigative journalism needs to make itself felt at this point. I’m the man to do it, if nobody else is.

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 03:20 AM | Link to this

But not right this second. Sleep I need; later today I’ll tear them a new one. :-) Night, all.

By Thecoolest

December 12, 2006 03:52 AM | Link to this

I second Aybar playing second daily. I understand he needs to be on hand for Chipper’s DL shenanigans, but it would be splendid to have a half-decent leadoff guy in the top spot.

By TK

December 12, 2006 04:00 AM | Link to this

I was reading a bunch of posts here. One at about 10pm about a 3 team trade with the Angels & DRays & Braves. The basic deal was Davies, LaRoche, & Langerhans or Diaz for Baldelli & Kotchman??? ahhh NO!!! That is as bad as the O’s trade. OK…read this slowly…Andruw Jones has VETO power over any trade!!! The Dodgers just spent a lot of money on Juan Pierre to play CF and Luis Gonzalez for LF. (man some 3rd base coaches arms are going to be sore waving players home with those rag arms.)Where to these guys play if you get Jones? The Angels signed Matthews Jr for CF. Andruw in LF?? Boston & White Sox…Andruw hates cold weather. Andruw will be a Brave in 2007. Hope he has a Lopez walk year and wish him and all the money he will make good luck. Marcus Giles thank you for your hard play!!! Good luck where ever you play in 2007. To Time Warner & Liberty I hope your stocks drop you tax avoiding cheap skates. To Bud Sielig you need to step in when a sale is driven by the fact they could care less about baseball and only want to avoid paying taxes. Baseball does not need another low budget team and that is where this is heading. No Chuck James for DL Baldelli. If you trade Davies. JS go get Zack Greinke from the Royals…ok nuff said! Can you tell I have been Christmas shopping ALL day?

By berigan

December 12, 2006 04:49 AM | Link to this

Grinch, you are right, Boras makes dumb gambles, yet it seems to work more often than not for his clients! Egads, the Red Sox have 51 mil to risk on a very heavily used 26 year old, before they even talk about what to pay the guy. And we can’t afford 6 Million to keep our 2nd baseman. So, no Giles, and no trade value either. Sigh….are we doomed to become the Expos of the 21st century??????

By Jeff

December 12, 2006 06:21 AM | Link to this

Well, nothing like an $80 million dollar payroll to bung-up a team. DOB, a while back, as I recall, you said that once the sale to Liberty Media is completed, the Braves stood a better chance of seeing the team payroll increase. Is that still your read?

This capped payroll stinks. Braves fans deserve better. Atlanta isn’t Pittsburgh; it’s a major market whose baseball team ownership is happy to put a middling product on the field rather than make a fair increase in the team’s payroll to reflect the changed economics in the game.

Chances are Liberty Media looks at the Braves as nothing more than a chit in a tax savings gambit. They’ll sell the team in two years when the law allows. Will they up payroll, believing that imporving the Braves makes for a better sale, or do they coast?

Atlanta is owed more than to be treated like a small market city. I hope other fans will gripe.

By Jared

December 12, 2006 06:59 AM | Link to this

“This is really pathetic. Keep in mind that the guy writing this is a blogger for the Devil Rays compared to O’Brien, a real-life journalist.”

You can tell he is really delusional in thinking that the Braves want to try and make the Devil Rays take Chuck James. The Braves almost certainly wouldn’t give them James for Baldelli straight-up. The Devil Rays are overreaching and making unreasonable demands. They won’t get James.

By Thomas

December 12, 2006 07:11 AM | Link to this

D-Rays- Braves Trade:

If the deal includes Chuck James, dthe trade is offfffff. Noooooooo wayyyyyyy!!!!!!! If its Kyle Davies maybe, but a strict maybe. If they dont like that, they can go !!!!!!. Kyle Davies and Yunel Escobar or Jarrod Saltamacchia for Rocco Baldelli.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 12, 2006 07:47 AM | Link to this

Here’s a little perspective on the Sox:

I was up in Ft. Lewis during the peak of Ichrio mania. They love that guy, and with out question drew a significant asian fan base.

Fast foward…I gaurantee the the RedSox make that money back up in sale of this guys jersey to the Asian community. The Redsox pulled of a major coup by getting his rights as they can put a small dent in the Yankee’s fan base. What they paid to get him and what its going to cost to sign him is chump change compared to the economic force he will bring. Read the Rosethal article on fox.

*If he’s that good

By tripleplay9

December 12, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this

Know it is just a rumour but New York Post is reporting a possible 3-way trade involving Pirates/Yankees/Braves. Braves would end up with Scott Proctor and Melky Cabrera. Pirates get LaRoche. Yankees receive Gonzales. I am sure there would be other players involved if this one happens.

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

“team ownership is happy to put a middling product on the field”

middling - adj. - Winning their division in only 14 of 15 seasons. Example: Those middling Braves will try to return from their one year of disappointment to another 14 years of success.

By Bad Stats

December 12, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

DOB, 1) It’s certainly a crazy world when a baseball player’s (Giles) salary continues to increase while, at the same time, his production continues to decline. What do you make of this?

2) Why should the Braves trade Salty and Escobar for Rocco? Sure we would have a decent left-fielder that can hit but have you checked out his OBP or carreer walks? He’s more like another Frenchy than a lead-off hitter!

I’m done…

By JCB

December 12, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

tripleplay9

Seems as if the Braves would be getting screwed on that one. If we are giving up LaRoche, it would have to be for more than Proctor and Cabrera. Gonzalez would definitely have to be coming to us.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 12, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

DOB:

With the talk of good movies over the past couple of days, I thought about one of my favorites of all time (not to mention the book, which is awesome), to describe what I am reading on this blog (rumors, innuendo, fantasy and folly), as well as accurately describing baseball ownership and the ridiculous money being thrown at average MLB players.

“One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”

Nuff said?

By JCB

December 12, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

Hey Mr. O’brien Heard the Mets are interested in Giles. Just heresay I guess, but still, wouldn’t it be a thorn in everyone’s side if they gave him close to 7 million a year, but yet, JS couldnt trade him for nothing? LOL. We see first hand how taking away the May 1st rule can hurt you. Cause now we get nothing if Giles leaves, all because teams know that he will be non-tendered.

By Rodger

December 12, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

falcone,

I buy your read on Giles and Chipper, but I think you may be off on Andruw. The reason he didn’t have as many put outs this year is there is a limit to how far in the stands he can go to catch a ball. So many more were “out of play”, so to speak!

By blakeo50

December 12, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

Soriano’s arm is fine. Great trade for the ATL. Marcus Giles is good as gone. I am surprised that DOB has not discussed the Braves lack of faith in LaRoche’s bat. LaRoche had the worst hitch in baseball until after the all-star break and the additional meds for ADD; the Braves better trade LaRoche while he has the stats to back up getting a nice player in return. IMO, we don’t want Baldelli and his injury-prone body; we have one now in Chipper; I’d like to have Crawford; one bit for all y’all is on Andruw Jones—-AJ and his agent are at odds again; Mrs. Jones is not wanting to leave the ATL. And if “Mama ain’t happy…”

By Jim

December 12, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

DOB, What is the deadline today for non-tendering a player? Do you expect that today’s deadline will unleash a number of trades?

By Dennis

December 12, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

DOB

Im am probably not in the majority but I think we should trade James and Escobar for Baldelli. Here’s why, he fits financially and has great potential to be a star. As long as I do not have to give up Salty I would be happy. Do not forget Elvis Andrus a top 50 SS propsect who is only 18 is waiting in the wings. I still have Salty to move to 1B or trade for pitching. James is a solid pitcher but he will probably continue like Horam did. He is a fly ball pitcher and his ERA will rise probably above 4.00. Baldelli could be a 25-30Hr guy will bat .300 and be a solid OPS guy. Later he could be a 100+ RBI guy once he moves out of the leadoff spot. It would also give us a shot at trading LaRoche for another starting pitcher. Could we get two pitchers for laRoche from the O’s? Could we get Adenhart from the Angels? (Even though they never seem to trade anyone!)Just my 2 cents worth.

By Carroll

December 12, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Robert: actually, DOB and others said that the Angels scoffed at the idea of giving up any pitching for Laroche/Giles. It was not limited to Santana/Shields from what I remember.

DOB: it seems like a waste for the Braves to NOT start Aybar at 2B every day on the off chance that they may need him to fill in for Chipper 20 or so times during the year. He may be the best answer we have for leadoff if we dont get Baldelli, so why have him waste away on the bench?! Just start him at 2B, and on the days when Chipper is out, slide him over to 3B. What’s the big deal?!

By blakeo50

December 12, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Dennis—-Baldelli is another injury waiting to happen. Besides the ATL will keep AJones before the negotiations are over. I’d trade Chuck James and LaRoche if the takers are “actually” available. If Giles, LaRoche and James are considered trade-bait, then where is all the interest? Why no deals so far? The Winter Meetings are made up of two types of teams: teams that will trade and teams that will talk about trading. The Braves were once one of the teams that would trade; no more….not until the team is sold. My fear is that the Braves will be purchased by a “Group” of investors much like the Atlanta Hawks. You want the Braves to be like the Hawks? What is your take on this, DOB?

By Jeff

December 12, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Gee, A.J., I didn’t write that team management was happy to put a middling product on the field. I wrote that ownership was happy to do so. Management can do only so much within an $80 million budget, given that other big markets teams are beginning to spend more. Maybe management can make the right moves to make the Braves competitive in 2007, but, year in and year, it will take more than $80 million to keep the Braves in the running.

By KC

December 12, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid, back in the early 80’s, before most anyone had ever heard of such a thing. And let me just say for the record, that medication did not affect LaRoche’s hitting.

I also played baseball, and was a first-baseman for that matter. Now of course, I didn’t play at any professional level, let alone the big leagues… but the pace of the game and the concentration that goes into playing the game is the same in high school ball as it is in the big leagues.

For someone like LaRoche or myself, it can be a little difficult to hold concentration in the field at times. But I promise you that LaRoche was never thinking about fishing when he was standing in the batter’s box. I am absolutely certain that medication had nothing to do with LaRoche’s offensive ascension. Absolutely nothing.

I think you have to credit his offensive improvements mostly to his playing everyday, and somewhat to the fact that many great MLB hitters have come into their own in their 2nd or 3rd season in the big leagues… nothing unusual about the timing of his establishing himself offensively.

Now some of the mental lapses you saw him have in the field… medication can definitely help with that. It will help him to not make as many (seemingly) boneheaded defensive or base running blunders, but please stop attributing ADD medication to any of his offensive accomplishments. Really folks, it has nothing to do with it.

By BB FAN

December 12, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

falcone,

Andruw Jones doesn’t have as many putouts because he has had Francoeur in Right and Langerhans in Left in ‘05-‘06. And in 2004, he had JD Drew and Charles Thomas. All could be centerfielders for any other team. They get to a lot more fly balls than Klesko, Jordan, Sheffield, Surhoff, Gerald Williams and Chipper Jones. Those were the outfielders playing left and right for the Braves between 1999 and 2003.

Of course, Andruw Jones has lost a little since he was younger, but that is just natural. As a guy gets older, it’s more difficult to stay thin and as quick. He’s still the best defensive centerfielder in baseball. Hunter, Wells and Beltran are probably next. Then maybe Edmonds. But none of them compare to Jones.

By KC

December 12, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

Braves vent: “All I know is that JS was a much bigger genius when he had about 25% more payroll to play with.”

Right. It was the money all along, and not Schuerholz, that has made the Brave so successful for so long. That’s why every team with money has won 14 Division titles, and at least one World Series title.

By blakeo50

December 12, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

LaRoche said the meds helped him hitting (and playing) but also said the meds did not help him HIT BETTER but that regular playing helped his hitting. I will leave it at that because I am not a doctor and I do not know; I do know that LaRoche had previously been very stubborn to do the work to change and to get rid of the hitch in his swing; he simply could not catch up with inside 1s. Once he started working harder, and playing more often, the hitch nearly vanished and the bat speed came back; LaRoche hammered the ball; IMO, that hitch may come back; best to trade LaRoche now and get a nice pitcher for him before he starts out hitting .141 for the month of April.

By KC

December 12, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Whether or not we should trade Chuck James for anyone in the D-Rays lineup is really a nonstarter, guys. It’s not gonna happen.

If Atlanta was willing to give up an offensive player like LaRoche to get pitching, that tells you that JS was sincere when he said that pitching was priority one this winter. They were willing to trade one of their top hitters to get one of the better arms in the league (before they got one at lesser cost)… but they are NOT willing to give up one of their best young arms to get another bat.

THE BRAVES ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE CHUCK JAMES. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

By NCBravesFan

December 12, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

In my opinion, the Braves should think long and hard about trading Davies. While we can all appreciate what Chuck James did last year, we have to remember that young pitchers can make a big splash, then seemingly regress for one reason or another (see: HoRam for the latest example).

At this point, the Braves have three starters at the top of the rotation - and two of them (Huddy and Hampton) have a bit of a question mark beside their names as we enter 2007.

So, if Davies can bounce back and James can match or exceed his performance in ‘06, let us give thanks and pass the potatoes.

But it seems to me the Braves need to have as much flexibility and options available in the rotation as possible. Unless we can get a starter in exchange, it doesn’t sound lke a very good idea to let Davies go at this point.

One final note on 2007 and the future … if things go the Braves’ way in 2007, they could be serious contenders for the World Series. Beyond next year, however, there are a heck of a lot of questions that need to be answered, salaries moved and retirement ceremonies scheduled.

Hopefully, the farm system and some smart trades can keep it going. (Not to mention a little more money for player salaries, if you please!)

JS is a smart guy and I have confidence that he can make the best of a murky situation. But I sure am glad I don’t have to make the choices he potentially faces beyond next year.

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Fox is trying to get Sutton to broadcast. Fine, but they’re gonna have a difficult time getting him to talk much; they’ll have to pair him with someone who can fill long, empty silences. :-)

Stanford is interested in Greg Knapp; please, please make it happen. That would be a godsend. Talk about addition by subtraction, and how bad must Stanford be? “Let’s find the absolute worst coach at any position in the NFL and maybe he’ll make us better.” Good luck!

By Stuart

December 12, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

If the D-Rays are drooling over Chucky James, why don’t the Braves ask for Carl Crawford? I think Baldelli is very overrated. I also think while OPS is a good comparative stat, I think it is not the end all, be all that ESPN makes is out to be. That is why Diaz is not the answer in left. Also I hope the Braves ownership ponie up a few extra bucks to keep Giles. He is a fan favorite and maybe that will heal some of the Braves fans syche and help a small fraction at the gate.

By Lew

December 12, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

I realise that I may be in the minority on this one, but I’m not certain the Liberty Media thing is going to happen. In essence what they are attempting to do is get a tax-free deal for about $450 million. With the IRS and SEC involved, does this sound like something our government will welcome with open arms? At 20% tax rates, this comes to $90 million. I just don’t see the Feds going along with giving up that kind of money. There are already difficulties with who will run the team financially. MLB wants a baseball person (Terry McGuirk) and the Feds want a financial/business type to do it. I see this (and the gov’t giving up these kind of bucks with a budget deficit the size of what we’ve been running) as a no go. I may be wrong, but it sure has been taking forever and I’m sure the money is a major issue.

By KC

December 12, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

Stuart: The D-Rays would probably want James plus a top-prospect before they would part with a top prospect. There’s no way the Braves would do that. I don’t think the BRaves would trade James for Crawford straight up (and I don’t think they should either). Starting pitching is the #1 priority of this franchise. For the most part, it always has been. Chuck James is virtually untouchable right now.

By Andy

December 12, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Dave, what’s the update on the Rocco Baldelli deal??? Who looks like the frontrunner to get him? Don’t you think we’re giving up too much with Escobar, Salty, and Davies. Why not keep Davies and offer another prospect starting pitcher in the minor and also Langerhans. That’s 4 solid players for one. TB is asking too much. Last year, they wanted McCann for Baez. Glad we didn’t do that one!

By KC

December 12, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

I’ve got an idea… why doesn’t Fox talk to Skip, Joe, and Pete (heck, maybe even Chip) while they’re at it.

Replace Rathbun and Torborg as quickly as possibly. Those guys are Waaaaay to flippin’ square. They are bores I just can’t stomach them after years of enjoying Skip and Joe’s wit and sarcasm.

By Lew

December 12, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

Stuart-According to Rays’ sources, Crawford would make Carlos Lee money if he were on the open market (I’m thinking they are right) and are not going to trade him for anyone short of a top line starter, or more. They would love Chuck James, but he won’t buy Crawford. The reason Baldelli is so desireable, is the fact that his contract is controlled for another 5 years, at prices way below what the market would bear. Also, does anyone realise that his agent was Boras, but Baldelli and his family didn’t like him, dumped him and Baldelli negotiated the contract on his own, because he was trying to be fair for missing a year and a half? Does this sound like a certain power hitting current Brave? To the person mentioning Andruw’s wife wanting to remain in Atlanta-even if Andruw would be willing to sign for $15 mil a year, much less than he will command on the free agent market, do you think we can afford him with our salary being kept at current levels? I don’t think even a major home town discount will help until the salry cap rises considerably.

By KC

December 12, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

LEW:

I think you’re absolutely right that this is not a done deal. Nor is it inevitable that Liberty Media will own the Braves. But, they’ve got plenty of tax attorneys working on this thing, and it’s highly likely that they’ll figure it out.

While most of us would regard it as good news were the Liberty/TW deal fall through… I’m not sure if it would be or not. The bottom line is that 80 million a season is apparently close to the break-even mark for this franchise. Maybe there’s an owner out there passionate enough and rich enough to be willing to lose money every year in order to sign a couple more free agents… but we shouldn’t hold our breath, in any event. Be it a corporate or individual owner, we’re not likely to see a 100 million dollar payroll again anytime soon. *Maybe Liberty, or whomever, will allow JS to bump it up to 85-90 million, but that’s about the most I would dare even hope for.

By Lew

December 12, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

NC Braves fan-I’ve been telling everyone to read an SI.Com article by Tom Verducci about overusing young pitchers (25 and under) their first year. If they pitch more than 25-30 innings more than they did their previous year, the tendency to backslide and become seriously injured goes through the roof. Such was the case with Horacio (not to mention he had arm surgery in the minors). It has happened with too many pitchers to be coincidence. However, Chuck James actually pitched less innings last year as opposed to 05. He should be fine.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 12, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

Grinch:

I saw that story about Knapp. They are also interested in Al Borges (Auburn’s OC). I hope they hire Knapp - we want to keep Big Al, if possible. Other programs are sniffing around our receivers and running backs coach (the guy who recruited and coached Rudi Johnson, Brandon Jacobs (for 1 year, anyway), Heath Evans, Brandon Johnson, Cadillac, Ronnie Brown, etc). Not a bad resume’, but I hope he stays.

I would be willing to give up LaRoche for Gonzalez - anything to strengthen our pitching (well, almost anything) needs to be done. We still would have plenty of offensive pop, but LaRoche’s defense would be missed. Our history over the past 15 years clearly demonstrates the success was built primarily on starting pitching. I think we are fairly solid there (barring a bunch of injuries - but who can predict that?), though certainly not as strong as in the past.

The biggest thing the Braves were missing during their run, pitching wise, was a reliable closer. I know, Wohlers was great until he started throwing the ball over the back stop - Rocker was great until he opened his big fat mouth. But, otherwise, we were using retreads (Sutter, Reardon, Pena, et.al) or unproven wannabe closers (Reitsma, etc) with mixed results. Not until Smoltz went into the pen did I feel confident that we could hold a lead with the closer on a consistent basis. The Mutts showed last year that a strong bullpen can carry you a long way - of course, their starting pitching fell apart in the playoffs, and their offense wasn’t enough to make up the difference.

I read several clamoring for Baldelli - he would seem to fit, ability wise, and money wise. I’m on the fence about it though - I still feel we need to shore up our pitching - that will be the difference maker next year, and in the years to come.

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

I’d be surprised if James OR Davies was dealt anywhere. JS is clearly committed to improving the pitching now (Soriano) and in the future (Penn). He’ll even deal LaRoche to make it happen.

A few years from now, you won’t have Smoltz, might not have Hampton, maybe not even Hudson. Gotta keep the kids you have and add some more to increase the odds of successful development into MLB-ready pitchers.

That’s the best formula for a mid-payroll team like the Braves to remain competitive.

By Earl

December 12, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

I still think that the Braves will offer Giles a contract, and then trade him. Bobby acted like he wanted Giles back, and I can’t believe Schuerholz would let him go for nothing (he was in the same boat before with Millwood, and we got Johnny Estrada out of it). Problem is, I can’t think of another team that would need him except for maybe the Mets or Blue Jays, plus Mark Loretta and Ron Belliard are still without a job.

By Earl

December 12, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

Also, Dave, I was wondering about the Willie Harris signing. You think he has any chance to make the team? I think he could outplay Pete Orr, plus he can play some outfield.

By KC

December 12, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

Lew: There is one person who could, and might help us re-sign Jones… Jones. Chipper has obviously sacrificed in order to make this team better… by the way, does anyone think he gets enough credit for that? I don’t. In this day in age, that kind of loyalty is nothing short of astonishing.

Anyway, Chipper’s current contract expires after the 08 season. If Andruw is willing to take less in the first year of his deal… Chipper might be willing re-sign (even if he’s healthy and has a very high market value) for 9 million or so a season, allowing the Braves to offer a 2 million a season raise.

Of course, Andruw will have to be willing to make some financial sacrifices to stay here. But then, that’s always been the case with major free agents. Pretty much anyone (noteworthy) that’s signed with the Braves, even when ATL had Ted Turner’s wallet, left slightly higher offers in the table elsewhere.

By Barrett

December 12, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

I am still wondering why you people are thinking that Davies is a player to lood over. He is not. He has some amazing stuff. Look at his numbers compared to an ex-brave:

first year @age 21 Davies: 7-6 4.93 era Ex-Brave: 2-4 5.51 era

Second Yera at age 22 Davies: 3-7 8.83 era Ex-Brave:7-17 4.56 era

Have any of you guessed who that ex-brave is? If you guessed Tom Glavine, you are correct. The point is Davies was hurt for the most part of last year. I wouldn’t even want to think of what you guys would be saying if he went 7-17. That would be scary. Atleast Davies was injured.He should be healthy and ready to go this year. I just don’t think we should give up on Davies yet. He is young, cheap, and a starting pitcher. If we want to build around pitching again, then why trade one?

Also, I think you people that say things like: “Why not keep Davies and offer another prospect starting pitcher in the minor and also Langerhans. That’s 4 solid players for one,”. No it’s not. This isn’t MLB 2007 on your xbox. Fourth Out Feilders like Langerhans aren’t a hot commodity no matter how you spin it. And by offering mid range minor leaguers doesn’t make any GM’s mouth salivate. Not even the D-Rays. They aren’t stupid. They did make the Kazmir trade with the Bumbling Steve Phillips at the helms of the Mets. They ripped them off pretty bad. We need to give the D-Rays more credit. They could get a lot for Baldelli and even more for Crawford and they know it.

By KC

December 12, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

rammerjammer:

I believe you are correct, sir. Davies probably isn’t going anywhere, and James definitely isn’t.

Salty could very well be the young-phenom centerpiece of a deal that could include another prospect or two, but Atlanta will be very reluctant to part with pitching.

The fact that the Braves were willing to give up LaRoche speaks volumes. That tells you right there… “We’ll give up offense to get pitching”. Doesn’t sound like a team anxious to deal away any young arms… unless it’s to get a different young arm (Ramirez-for-Soriano).

By joshz

December 12, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

DOB-

Just throwing this out there, but in the future, if you want to read an article on a site that makes you register, just check out this site. It’ll give you a working username and password. It’s pretty fantastic.

By KC

December 12, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

Going back to the Chipper Jones thing… He should be everyone’s favorite player in Atlanta. A guy who says “I’m a Brave, and I’m willing to sacrifice financially to make this team better”… WOW! How often do you see that these days?

How many players are that loyal to their team, their coach, their fans?? To find a guy that’s not all about the jack, is truly refreshing. That shows a lot of character.

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Just messin Jeff.

But neither the management nor the ownership want to put a middling team out there.

I don’t know if you read Schuerholz’s book, but if I remember correctly it sounded like he was on board with, and maybe even in on, the decision to cut back payroll.

Everyone wants to win, everyone would love to get all the top free agents, but you have to stop somewhere.

I do think it may be time to bump that number up 5 or 10 mill in the next few years, but no matter how much I like him I would definitely want something more than Giles with that money.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 12, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

KC:

I’m right there with you on getting rid of Rathbun - I’ve been railing against “Biff Barf” ever since he started broadcasting one game a week on FoxSS. He’s a nice enough guy, and seems to know enough about the game to call it. I just can’t stand his delivery, and I get sick of him yelling “What a great PLAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!” over what was just an average play.

I like Torborg - he is knowledgeable, and yes, he is low key and has a somnolent delivery. But, he’s a big, big improvement over Paciorek. Don’t matter what you and I think, or anyone else, though - I think we’re stuck with Biff Barf for a while. Guess I’ll turn down the sound on the tube and listen to Skip & Pete.

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

On the Chipper topic, I think it’s funny how so many people write him off.

He had one bad year average-wise, and even then hit 30 HR and 96 RBI.

He is injured too much, and it would make a huge difference for the Braves if he could play 140 games a year instead of the 110 he’s had the last few, but his numbers were outstanding last season.

He is easy to think of as a guy who is on his way out, but he won’t be gone any time soon with a BA over 320, an OBP over .400, and a nearly 600 slugging percentage.

I just wanted to mention that since I myself sometimes forget just how good he still is.

Just a thought, is Chipper a Hall-of-Famer? As of right now he looks a good bet to reach 400 HR and 1500 RBI. He could possibly even reach 2500 hits.

Plus his career averages are .304 BA, .402 OBP, and .542 SLG%.

By KC

December 12, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Scalp em’:

I have Dish Network, so unfortunately, I’m not able to turn down the sound on the TV and listen to the radio. However, someone in this forum turned me on to a device that you can buy to delay the radio signal to match the tv satellite delay, specifically for this purpose. So I am definitely planning to get one before next season. I refuse to spend another season listening to Rathbun and Torborg, when I could be listening to Skip, Joe, and Pete.

The thing of it is that, especially with Skip and Joe, there’s real personality there. They don’t sound like stereo-typical announcers. They’re not only knowledgeable, but they’re a lot of fun as well. They’re different from any other sports announcers I’ve heard. You just can’t replace those guys that easily… and they (Fox) hasn’t.

By JCB

December 12, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Earl, dude. DOB has already hit this nail on the head about 3 times, if not more. The Braves DO NOT have the money to tender Giles a contract and then hope to trade him with a market that doesnt need secondbaseman all that bad. Especially 2nd basemen whose production has been decreasing steadily over the past few years. If they could trade him, I am sure they would have done so already.

By KC

December 12, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Lew: Are you coming down to Atlanta for a game this year? (You said something earlier that made it sound like you were planning on it.)

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

KC, exactly right in your 11:05 post. It DOES speak volumes that JS tried to trade LaRoche, and I think he’s still being shopped.

Something else about Davies. He’ll be just 23 next season and has had strong stats at every level in the minors.

It is WAY, WAY too early for folks to say he won’t be a solid MLB starter, and I fully expect him to compete this spring for the fifth spot in the rotation.

By KC

December 12, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Marcus Giles in 2005: .291, 15-HR, 63-RBI, 45-doubles, 104-runs

It’s probably true that we can’t afford him… but the “deteriorating player” theory some here are pushing doesn’t make much sense to me.

He had an off-year this season while trying to acclimate to the leadoff role. I don’t think there’s evidence to support anything more than that. Giles is an all-star caliber 2nd-baseman. If we could afford to keep him, I’d love to see us do so. Especially since we apparently can’t get a fair return for him via trade.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 12, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Now here’s the question about Chipper’s HOF chances. Will the voters look at his stats in a negative away considering the offensive explosion or the “steroid era”. If you dont let McGwire in you have to let CJ in IMO>

By Charles

December 12, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Here’s a question: Could the Braves non-tender Giles, re-sign him to a smaller contract and then trade him? Giles then becomes a bargain. Does arbitration still play out if he is traded away, or if he becomes a free agent and signs with another team?

By TK

December 12, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

I maybe wrong on this. Payroll has gone backward. I think the Braves HAD a payroll around $100 mil. Maybe Authur Blank can get back into the Braves sale. Do you think it is odd that LaRoche started playing better in the 2nd half was when he started playing everyday??? hmmm I do think Ryan Langerhans could do better if he played everyday. He seems to get mad at himself to much. He needs to learn that failing 7 out of 10 times is pretty good. He needs to channel it somewhere else. Plus quit letting his shoulder fly open during his swing. Last year the Braves had a young pitcher who won 13 games…Jorge Sosa. Lets hope Chuck James or anyone for that matter does not follow that path. I do agree with several posts. If the DRays want James so bad. The Braves get Crawford. I know they have said he will not be traded. They have their demands let the Braves have their own.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Injury and Mike Hampton in same sentence. Cringe.

Fortunately for Braves fans, it was stock-car driver Jimmie Johnson who got hurt, not the pitcher. In case you missed it, Johnson was screwing around riding ATOP a golf cart at Hampton’s celebrity golf tourney in Florida when he took a tumble and broke his wrist.

Hampton’s elbow, knee and back are presumably fine.

Johnson’s a good friend of Marcus Giles, by the way.

No, haven’t heard anything yet today about Giles, and knowing the Braves we might not get an announcement until tomorrow morning. That’s how they roll, as the kids say.

By flbravesgirl

December 12, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

KC, I agree about Chipper. He absolutely does not get the respect he deserves for the loyalty he’s shown to the Braves.

Grinch, I just like purple.

By joebrave

December 12, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

E-NUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about Giles already!!!!!!!!! you guys are jaded he IS a middling 2b with minimal power and definitely N O T !!!!!!!!! a gold glover just get over it geesh>

By Drew

December 12, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Josh Fogg Shawn Chacon Rodrigo Lopez Joel Pineiro Marcus Giles Chris Reitsma Ben Broussard Toby Hall Mark Hendrickson Yorvit Torrealba David Newhan Todd Williams Jorge Sosa Brendan Donnelly Brandon Duckworth Kyle Snyder Chin-Hui Tsao Javier Lopez Humberto Cota Antonio Perez Eric Bruntlett Brad Wilkerson Jason Lane Jody Gerut Jayson Werth Aaron Guiel

Just found this list of non-tender candidates on MlbTradeRumors. DOB, do you see anyone the Braves might be interested in? I think Hendrickson makes some sense, because he is a lefty, and could compete for the 5th starter spot. Any other thoughts?

By summerteeth

December 12, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

Here’s how I would roll…

Giles to SD for cash

Davies & Yunel for Baldelli

Andruw to LA for Kemp & Billingsly

I want to avoid a year of wondering if Andruw will be back - which he won’t. Sever ties now and move on with Rocco.

By Stinky

December 12, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Lew, are you saying the Liberty/TWX deal for the Braves is coming under more scrutiny? I know the maple syrrup is good up there in Vermont, but you don’t have to waffle so much.

By Doug E

December 12, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Is it just me that sees Giles numbers decline when the drug testing started??

By TK

December 12, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

I maybe wrong on this. Payroll has gone backward. I think the Braves HAD a payroll around $100 mil. Maybe Authur Blank can get back into the Braves sale. Do you think it is odd that LaRoche started playing better in the 2nd half was when he started playing everyday??? hmmm I do think Ryan Langerhans could do better if he played everyday. He seems to get mad at himself to much. He needs to learn that failing 7 out of 10 times is pretty good. He needs to channel it somewhere else. Plus quit letting his shoulder fly open during his swing. Last year the Braves had a young pitcher who won 13 games…Jorge Sosa. Lets hope Chuck James or anyone for that matter does not follow that path. I do agree with several posts. If the DRays want James so bad. The Braves get Crawford. I know they have said he will not be traded. They have their demands let the Braves have their own.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

KC writes: “He had an off-year this season while trying to acclimate to the leadoff role. I don’t think there’s evidence to support anything more than that.”

Really? Just a bad year adjusting to the leadoff role?

To repeat above stats:

His OPS has slipped from .916 in 2003 to .728, after two years with it right in the middle between those numbers.

His slugging percentage has dropped from .526 in 2003 to last year’s career-worst .387, after two years right in middle of those two numbers.

His on-base percentage has slipped steadily and annually, from .390 in 2003 to .378 in 2004, .365 in 2005, and last year’s .341.

One bad year adjusting to leadoff?

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Dickey Betts is 63 today. Anybody feel old reading that sentence?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 12, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Charles:

Your question about non-tender, sign Giles cheaply and then trade him. Why would Giles do that?? If he’s non-tendered, he can negotiate with anyone, and is going to (a) have a say in which team he plays for and (b) will likely sign for something more than the Braves would pay - not the $5 mil he might get in arbitration, but more than $1mm, at least in this crazy market.

Summerteeth - AJ to the Bums for Billingsley and Kemp? JEFF KEMP?? The clubhouse morale killer? Thanks, but no thanks - don’t care how desperate we are for an experienced 2nd baseman (granted - he is good offensively, decent defensively), but we can better fill our needs with other alternatives, in my opinion. If would could trade Druw (a highly unlikely prospect, it seems), I would rather try to get a prospect or two, or a proven, reliable 2 - 4 starter, than somebody who’s only going to be around for a year or so, and will cause more trouble and resentment in the clubhouse than we already have. I’d rather have AJ in his walk year, and get a couple of draft picks than do that.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Earl, what is it about Willie Harris’ career, past or recent, that leads you to believe he’ll outplay Orr?

Maybe he can, but I find it hard to get excited about the potential:

Harris is a .238 career hitter with a .306 OBP and .294 slugging percentage. That’s terrible. And he was worse last year, batting .156-.250-.200 with two extra-base hits (doubles) in 47 games (45 at-bats for the Red Sox). That’s tough to do _ to stay on a roster that long with numbers that bad.

In the only one of his six major league seasons in which Harris had more than 163 at-bats, he hit .262 with 15 doubles, two homers and 27 RBIs in 409 at-bats in 2004 for the White Sox.

Orr has a .276 career average, .304 OBP and .365 slugging percentage in 304 at-bats over two major league seasons, with 11 doubles, five triples and two homersl. Not good, but a bit better than Harris _ and Orr did hit .300 in 150 at-bats as a rookie in 2005….

KC, Chipper also has a vesting option for 2009 worth between $8 million and $11 million, with the salary to be set according to performance incentives in the previous year.

By Drew

December 12, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

JEFF KEMP meaning Jeff Kent? Pretty sure he was talking about power outfield prospect Matt Kemp. Good try though.

By Olereb

December 12, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

The state of baseball in Atlanta is a travesty. I have been a loyal fan for 40 years, listening to the Braves on a radio station out of Nashville, TN.,while I was 220 miles away. I remember getting mad about Friday and Saturday Nights because the Grand Ole Opry would be on. We did not always win, but I always felt we were tying to. Now, I am not so sure, our owners, why don’t they get out of the game. We have to let Giles go for nothing, someone is going to sign him, and we look like idiots. I am about ready to give up. Tome Warner please, get out of the game.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Earl, you countered your own point here with the obvious difference: Millwood was a STARTING PITCHER who hadn’t been in decline and was wanted by multiple teams.

You wrote: “I still think that the Braves will offer Giles a contract, and then trade him.”

They’re not going to put themslves in potential danger of being overbudget. What if something happened to Giles tomorrow and he’s under contract?

“Bobby acted like he wanted Giles back, and I can’t believe Schuerholz would let him go for nothing.”

Bobby is loyal and acts like he wants every player back, for the most part. Unless they were real idiots, and that’s countable on one hand, maybe a few fingers.

Schuerholz just let Glavine go back to New York without so much as making an offer.

By Josh

December 12, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

David is it true that there is a rumored 3 Way trade between BOS - ATL - PIT that would send LaRoche to Boston, inturn sending Coco Crisp to Atlanta. THEN Boston sends LaRoche to Pittsburgh for Mike Gonzalez?

True or Fiction?

By summerteeth

December 12, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

What Drew said.

Matt Kemp and Billingsly for AJ. Rocco takes over CF and Kemp moves to LF. Prado to 2B. And HOPE our staff doesn’t realize how old and feeble they really are!

By Charles

December 12, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em Braves:

Thanks for the response. I say “nontendering and resigning” based on the idea that there are very few teams that needs a second baseman. He is unlikely to command any more money than he already makes, unless through arbitration. His value has declined. However, being able to choose for whom you will play makes a little more sense, and something that I had not thought of (in my lapse of rational thinking).

By Charles

December 12, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

If any player is arbitration eligible, then is non tendered, would arbitration still be in effect when they sign with a new team?

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

Blakeo50 writes: “The Winter Meetings are made up of two types of teams: teams that will trade and teams that will talk about trading. The Braves were once one of the teams that would trade; no more….not until the team is sold.”

Uh, just one problem with that: A total of THREE trades were made at the winter meetings, and the Braves made one of them.

Next….

By charles

December 12, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

The 3 Way deal is not one that I have heard before. Where and when did you hear that?

By Big Daddy

December 12, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

I keep reading about how much better Carl Crawford is than Baldelli. Well, let’t take a look at the numbers and a few facts.

Facts first: Crawford is a free agent at the end of 2008. Baldelli is under contract until the end of 2011 *at an affordable price. *Both players are 25 years old.

And for the fun of it let’s throw in Giles’ worst year. He is 28 years old.

Stats: Career BA: Baldelli .289 — Crawford .292 — 2006: Giles .262

career OBP: Balselli .329 — Crawford .326 2006 — Giles .341

RBI yearly: Balde: 70 Craw 61 2006 —Giles 60

BB/SO avg: Balde: 25/95, Craw 25/78, 2006: Giles 62/105 (note OBP above)

SB avg year: Balde: 18 Craw 51 2006 —Giles 10

HR avg year: Bald: 15 Craw 10 2006 —Giles 11

With Crawford the Braves would have a center fielder for one year after Andruw is gone while with Baldelli they would have CF covered for 4 years, post Andruw.

These are the things management must look at when making these trades. What are the effects in the second and third years etc?

Crawford is definitely the faster of the two. Both would make good center fielders. Their batting averages are similar. Their OBP’s are almost indentical. Baldelli has an edge on RBI but that could be because he had more chances with men on base. All in all, other than in stolen bases, the two compare very favorably.

Neither is a slugger. Crawford would be far superior in rattling pitchers when on first.

If I had a chance to trade for my choice (and giving up the same players in exchange) I’d take Baldelli. How about you?

I threw in Giles to show that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Although Giles had a down year by Braves standards it was not so bad by other standards. Prediction: If not tendered Giles will be grabbed tomorrow and probably by San Diego.

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Josh, that trade rumor is absolutely not true.

If you hear something and think, “There is no way they’d ever do that.” You can generally ignore them.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Boston and Pittsburgh media were talking about it. Boston media thinks everyone in the world will do whatever Epstein says. And Pittsburgh media is mad at Schuerholz because of the LaRoche-Gonzolez stuff. Apparently it’s a crime to be a better GM than Dave Littlefield.

Thankfully, if being a better GM than Dave Littlefield is wrong, Schuerholz doesn’t wanna be right.

By Drew

December 12, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

Charles, No, the new team signs them to a regular free agent contract.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

The deadline is midnight (someone asked; I forgot who) and no, I don’t anticipate a rash of deals today. To the contrary, most teams will wait and do nothing today, because they don’t want to trade for a guy they might be able to sign tomorrow as a free agent to a lesser contract than he’d get through arbitration.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Charles, no, any team can sign a non-tendered free agent to any salary.

By Charles

December 12, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Drew:

Thanks for the response. This makes a little more sense to me now.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Why in the hell does Carl Crawford’s name keep coming up with the same handful of people here? Is this just for your fantasy leagues, or what? Do you understand this concept: The DEVIL RAYS ARE NOT TRADING CRAWFORD AT THIS TIME. THEY ARE SHOPPING BALDELLI. Again, NOT TRADING CRAWFORD. BALDELLI, ON THE OTHER HAND, IS AVAILABLE TO INTERESTED TEAMS WITH PITCHING TO OFFER.

Ok, just thought I’d try to clarify. I won’t be addressing Crawford again, until he’s available. Waste of breath and key strokes. I’m not interested in fantasy league stuff, sorry.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

Josh, that’s a new york writer speculating on a possible scenario. that’s all. could it happen? yes. but so could a thousand other trades. not going to address each until there’s advancement. that’d be a full-time job, and not one i’d be interested in holding.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

and I should add, NO, THAT TRADE WON’T HAPPEN if the Braves are just getting Coco Crisp. For LaRoche? Please. Gimme a break.

By Charles

December 12, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

I appreciate the response. Just trying to understand a litte more in depth. Making more sense.

By udog52

December 12, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Let him go! Not only has he statiscally declined over 2003, he’s a jerk! At a spring training game last year in which he played 2 innings, he went to the clubhouse, changed into civvies, and refused to sign autographs. Instead, he stood around the bus, waiting for the game to end. In comparison, several others, including Chipper, signed autographs for several hundred fans lining the 3rd base fence. Another prime example of a mediocre talent having a modicum of success which immediately goes to his head.

By Drew

December 12, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, did you see the list of nontender guys I posted at 12:17? Any of those guys you think would be appealing to the Braves?

By Big Daddy

December 12, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Somebody mentioned trading LaRoche in a three-way and only getting Coco Crisp in return. Do you really think that little of John S?

We can all recite time and again the wonderful catches Andruw makes in center field. Bobby C has said many times that Andruw has hundreds of base hits in his GLOVE and we know what he means by that.

Have we considered how many base hits, almost all doubles or triples, that LaRoche has in his glove? The guy can play some terrific first base. If he stays on his meds he may well win a gold glove in 2007. And we all know he can hit. He proved that in 2006. And we all know that on this blog (one year ago) many posters were raising hell for LaRoche to be traded for an asst. groundskeeper if nothing else.

He’s now a proven major league player. I hope John S. appreciates that fact. Would I trade him for Coco Crisp? Not in a thousand years. And not for that reliever in Pittsburgh either.

By KC

December 12, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

DOB: Respectfully, why do you dispute my conclusion while ignoring my argument (the season he had in 05’)?

You’re drawing a direct line between his 2003 season and his 2006 season, while ignoring the very solid numbers he put up in 2005: .291 avg., 15-HR, 63-RBI, 45-doubles, 16-SB, 104-runs (career best).

Would anyone disagree that his 2005 numbers were solid? I stand by my argument. Giles was excellent last year (2005). This year… sure, he was utterly mediocre. But again, given the strength of his 05’ production, there’s nothing to support all of this “he’s been steadily declining over the past 3 years” stuff. And that’s fact, from where I’m standing. Right now (until/unless he struggles just as badly next year), you just have to chalk it up to a good player having had a sub par season.

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Soriano, in six relief appearances through Dec. 9 for Escogido in the Dominican winter league, has an ERA of 7.50. In six innings, he’s given up five runs, eight hits, two walks and one strikeout.

Just tuning up? I hope so.

By Shaun

December 12, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

KC,

I agree. I don’t care if they trade Giles, if it helps the team, but he’s likely to be very productive in ‘07. Injuries cost him in ‘06.

He wasn’t that bad last year. He put up a decent average and a respectable OBP. His power was down probably because of injury.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 12, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Summerteeth:

Kemp, Kent, etc - what’s the difference? lol

mea culpa

By Leslie Hufstetler

December 12, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Just to change gears. Would the Braves be interested in bringing back Javy Lopez as McCann’s back-up or are the locked in to Peña?

By BB FAN

December 12, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

I would like to see the Braves keep Davies. But getting Baldelli would be nice insurance in case Andruw leaves next year. They should only include two of the three prospects (Escobar, Saltalamacchia, Davies) for him though. Unless of course, they can get a young pitching prospect elsewhere in a separate deal.

I think Villarreal and Cormier could hold down the 5th spot in the rotation. They proved that last year.

Jonathon Johnson was very good as a reliever last season at AAA Richmond. As a reliever last year, he had 38 SOs in 36 innings, giving up 23 hits and 13 walks with a 2.00 ERA in 20 games. As a starter, he was 0-1 with a 6.89 ERA, with just 8 SOs , and allowed 4 walks and 22 hits in 15.2 innings. He might help the bullpen this year as well.

By KC

December 12, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

DOB: To clarify… in fairness, you did reference the OBP’s in 04 and 05, but other than that, largely skipped over the fact that he was excellent last year (05). Yes, Giles 03’ season was definitely the best of his career so far… but that doesn’t mean declining. Sure, his 05 numbers weren’t as good as 03, but they were still excellent. In 04’, Giles missed nearly half the season due to injury, so I don’t think you can build much of a case on that (though he did hit .311 in 04’). The only real decline I see was between last year and this year. But that may simply mean nothing more than a good player having a sup par season. We’ll find out this year… wherever he’s playing.

But to me that to look at his 05’ numbers, and declare that season to be part of some deterioration process… well, I think that’s reaching just a bit.

By KC

December 12, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer:

aaah, I wouldn’t put too much stock in that stuff. This is essentially a rehab assignment. If we put stock in the numbers many good pitchers put up in rehab assignments (especially early on in those assignments), we’d be panicked all the time.

By JCB

December 12, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

KC, he has been in decline since 2003. How is that so hard to understand? 2004 excluded, Because he only played 102 games due to injury, all of his numbers have been in decline. Homers, OBP, Slugging, Average. ALL OF IT has been in decline. Not something you would expect from a young second baseman who should be raising all of those numbers.

By Luv 2 Hate Me

December 12, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Cut his sorry azz. He was never a good soild player to me anyway. And that swing was just horrible. Somebody should have taught him how to swing in the majors. The man would make a good golf player with that swing.

By KC

December 12, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Shaun: Some naggin injury trouble, and acclimation to the leadoff role.

If memory serves me correctly, he was one of the best hitters on the team during the brief period of time in which BC batted him in the 2-slot.

It would make me very happy to see the Braves find a way to keep him, and bat him 2nd. But even if the former happened, the latter wouldn’t. Oh well. Happy trails, Marcus!

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

One should keep in mind that the winter leagues are much like spring training.

Starting pitchers often work no more than 2-3 innings, for instance. Also, players come and go seemingly at will.

Soriano’s team has played 41 games, and already 28 guys have pitched at least one inning!

Still, it’d be nice to see better stats.

By KC

December 12, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Also, if we’re going to look at Marcus’ 04 season and compare it to the 05’ season, as DOB did when he mentioned the declining OBP… then it should noted that, while his on-base and batting averages were down in 05’ (.365/.291) from the previous year… Marcus did improve his slugging percentage, his HR/AB ratio, his BB/AB ratio, and his SO/AB ratio from the previous season.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 12, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Eric Gagne to the Rangers…..Dodgers sure are active this off-season.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

KC, I’m not going to split hairs with you: Marcus had his career-best season (by far) in 2003, slipped to something of a plateau (at least it appeared) with two still-good/very good seasons in 2004-05, and had his worst full season (by far) in 2006. Period. Call it what you want, I don’t care.

If you think that’s somehow an encouraging career arc, good for you. I’m happy the world has glass-half-full types and fans loyal to their favorite players, like a certain individual is with Hudson (despite the team and Hudson both saying he’s been less-than-expected for two years).

I’m not hear to spin things positively or negatively, but just to put the facts on the table. Not be a fan. Sorry if that’s hard for you to accept.

So here: Yes, he had a very good 2005 season, but nowhere near his 2003 season. And he had a pretty mediocre 2006 season, not what you’d expect for a 28-year-old approaching free agency. And if you watched him every night, game in and game out, you know he simply was not even close to the threat he was at the plate on a consistent basis in the past. Facts, man. I know what I see. That’s what I saw.

By Gary

December 12, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

Please people dont pay that much attention to Dominican League results for Soriano. Remember last year that a certain pitcher named Jorge Sosa was dominating in a relief role in the Dominican and we all know how that ended up. So be patient with Soriano. Lets see how he does in Spring Training.

By Edvard Munch

December 12, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME!!!

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Rammerjammer, you are correct in noting that too much concern is being placed on his winter ball performance. I didn’t mean to raise all kings of red flags, just wanted to tell you what a scout I respect (this guy’s background is pitching) said after seeing him pitch last week, or two weeks ago. But like you, I’m not too concerned and certainly would have made the trade.

By KC

December 12, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

JCB: If you will note my last post, and then take a look at his career numbers, you will find the he has NOT declined every year in all the statistical categories you just mentioned.

And PLEASE, come on people… look at his 05’ stats. Just last year when he was healthy and was batting in the familiar 2-slot… he put up very impressive numbers; ideal for a #2 hitter. Tell me I’m wrong.

2005: .291 avg., 15-HR, 63-RBI, 45-doubles, 16-SB, 104-runs (career best).

He had a fantastic season just last year, so I’m sorry, but all this “declining player” stuff just seems a little silly to me. He had a bad season this year. He was hurt for part of it, and forced to adjust to unfamiliar role (leadoff) with which he was not comfortable during most of the season. I think those are much more reasonable explanations than your “Giles is all but washed up at the age of 28” theory.

By Edvard Munch

December 12, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Actually, that should have been: HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MMMEEEEEEEEE!!!!

By tkg

December 12, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

LOL … Thanks DOB for the Crawford comment. Every time someone writes the name Carl Crawford, I wish there would be a program that would come up on the computer with Richard Dawson’s voice saying “Survey Says”, followed by a large red X across their screen — just to reinforce the point that it ain’t happening.

By Gary

December 12, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

KC, i see the point that you are making about Giles. One would forget the importance of him and Furcal in those 03, 04, and 05 seasons when they were the table setters for one of the top offenses in the NL. Yes numbersare declining in some aspects, but up in others as you have noted. However, i do see DOB’s point too. The Braves are in a dire financial situation and Marcus is a guy whos contract could be let go. Now if the Braves could pursuade him to take a lesser contract tomorrow after they non-tender him, well then all is well. But that is unlikely to happen as it has been well noted that Prado will probably take that role next season. But as much as some prideful people here (not naming names) are down on Marcus, i see him as an asset the Braves should keep. But i just dont see it happening.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 12, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Was that a knock, DOB?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 12, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Hendrickson could be an option as a 5th starter. He’s played on some pretty bad teams, but his career numbers are too terrible for a #5 and he made just $1.9 mill last year. Couldn’t be any worse than Albie Lopez, right?

By coloradobravesfan

December 12, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

TEST

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

No, wasn’t at all meant to disparage you, Half Full. Seriously.

And Munch, glad you added the exclamation marks, for you must screeeam happy birthday to yourself. And do me a favor, take the original of that painting, burn it, and never allow it to be replicated and morphed into any number of pseudo-hip messages and t-shirts….

I guess nagging injuries and having to bat leadoff are all the excuse needed for Marcus. Cruel, making him bat leadoff, wasn’t it. How could anybody be expected to make the adjust to batting leadoff in one season after hitting second for a couple of years?

KC, out of curiosity I went to see where Marcus .728 OPS last year _ again, nearly TWO HUNDRED points below his OPS from three years earlier _ would’ve ranked among all regular 2B last season, not just NL.

It was tied Minneosta’s Luis Castillo for 19th in the majors. Yes, Castillo, a career singles hitter, had a .728 OPS last year (same as Giles) in a season in which Castillo’s .358 on-base percentage was down from .381, .373 and .391 over the previous three seasons. In other words, a down year for the 11-year major leaguer who’s had hip surgery and no longer runs like he did as a Marlin.

That’s who had the same .728 OPS as Marcus last season. And you want to tender him a contract, which would mean a salary likely near $6 mill, for a team with an $80 mill payroll and 80 percent of it already tied up with seven guys? OK. Sounds like a sound business decision to me.

Hey, I love the guy’s story, working himself into becoming a player when nobody thought he was big enough or good enough defensively to make it in the majors. But you can’t let the fact that he’s a good story, a good interview, and WAS an All-Star in 2003, dictate your decision when you’re in a financial bind because of the reduced payroll and the fact that you have several big contracts that were handed out when the payroll was much bigger.

By KC

December 12, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Hey… here’s a thought! Do you suppose it’s possible that I can look at the same numbers with some reasonable degree of intelligence, and simply come to a different conclusion than you? Do you suppose it’s possible that you and I might disagree about other players throughout the league as well, who clearly wouldn’t be my “favorites”? Or are you pretty much dead-set on the “I’m an objective surveyor of the facts, and you’re a ‘glass-half-full’ loyalist” theory you just threw on the table.

Just so you know, Marcus Giles is not my favorite, or even one of my favorite players. I think he’s a good player, and enjoyed watching him play… (at least up until his sub par 06 season). I haven’t been losing any sleep over the thought of the Braves trading or even non-tendering Giles. I’ve said repeatedly that I would like to see us keep him, simply to wait for his trade value to go up. I’m not sure what I’ve said to give you the impression that I’ll be waiting outside the airport with a “thank you for the memories, Marcus!” sign, and a tear in my eye when he inevitably leaves Atlanta.

Yes David, I’m looking at the same stats you are, and I agree with you that his 03’ season was a career-year for him to this point. If the fact that none of his past 3 seasons were as good as his 2003 season, means he’s in decline… fine, he’s in decline.

I guess my problem with the whole thing is that when you hear the term “declining player” you don’t think of a guy that put up the numbers he put up last year (05). “Declining player” is usually a term used to describe a player who’s best years are behind him, and at 28, I think it’s way too early to hang that sign on him. He was a very good hitter in each of his last 3 seasons. It seems to me that there were circumstances that contributed to his poor 06 season, and that it was likely an isolated thing. Maybe I’m wrong. We’ll see.

Now if you’ll excuse me, there’s a fresh pot of coffee around the corner, and I need to go refill my merely half-full glass.

By KC

December 12, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

DOB:

I won’t disagree with you in the slightest that Marcus was not impressive this season. There is no substandard statistic for his 06 season that will surprise me. I’m just of the belief that he was an excellent player over the last 3 seasons, so at the age of 28, I’m going to guess “bad season”, rather than “declining player”. That’s all I’m saying. =)

By Glass half Full (GHF)

December 12, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

A financial question/observation: is it a correct assumption that if/when Andruw walks in 2008, the Braves won’t really have all this EXTRA cash because of Hudson’s salary increase and several players becoming eligible for arbitration (won’t that include McCann, Davies, Francouer, Boyer, McBride, and basically every other “baby Brave” from 2005?)? Seems like maybe only 5 or 6 million might be available for arbitration-eligible guys.

By KC

December 12, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

DOB… just wanted to note that my 2:50 post was written before reading your 2:49 post. Yes, I did take your earlier post as a bit of a slap to the credibility of my opinion, initially. Thanks for clarifying. All is well. Party on Wayne!

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

By the way, who said “declining player” anyway, besides you when you used quote marks as if quoting me or some other member of the media. Did I call him a “declining player”? If so, where?

I said his stats have declined since his career-best 2003 season. If they haven’t, I guess I’m wrong.

By Glass half Full (GHF)

December 12, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

A financial question/observation: is it a correct assumption that if/when Andruw walks in 2008, the Braves won’t really have all this EXTRA cash because of Hudson’s salary increase and several players becoming eligible for arbitration (won’t that include McCann, Davies, Francouer, Boyer, McBride, and basically every other “baby Brave” from 2005?)? Seems like maybe only 5 or 6 million might be available for arbitration-eligible guys.

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

GHF, Hendrickson is pretty intriguing if he’s available.

He was a solid starter at Tampa Bay last season (3.81 ERA in 13 starts and 89 IP), but was traded at mid-season to the Dodgers and was awful (1-7, 5.07 ERA).

But he hired a psychologist and got back on track as a reliever.

According to the Dodgers’ Web site, the 6’9”, 32-year-old lefty allowed one earned run and six hits in 11 2/3 IP, with 12 Ks. I believe he made about $2 million this season.

Again, a lefty. And we have only one of those in the bullpen.

By Chrizzo

December 12, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

DOB, we die hard blog fans demand a picture of you be put up on the site somewhere. We want to know just who it is that keeps us up to date info at all hours of the day. Your fans want to know what you look like.

By Choppinmama

December 12, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

DOB: After living in an ATL suburb for 20 years then moving to FL this past season, AND being an enthusisatic Braves supporter, finding this blog with your candid comments has been a Godsend. Thanks for all your information, answers and comments.

I’m sure not looking forward to 2007 without Giles and LaRoche on the field. Factor in another ticket price increase and the result will be a few less trips back to the Ted for this fan. I don’t even want to think about 2008 without Andruw.

I’ll just have to see if a better winning percentage than .500 this year will soften my heart and open my wallet.

By Shaun

December 12, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

KC,

I think Giles has one, maybe two more years as one of the top 5 2B in the game then he’ll start to decline.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 12, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

I imagine it was quite a change from Tampa Bay to LA. I mean, the guy played in Toronto, Tampa Bay, then Los Angelas. Talk about culture shock. The first game as a Dodger he probably asked himself, “Where the hell did all these people come from?”

By test

December 12, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Is any one else having trouble with the Blog?

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Giles isn’t the only Brave whose best years are behind him. One could make the same statement about Hudson and Renteria. Doesn’t mean they’re bad players…it means they had better seasons 2-3 years ago.

It’s just Giles’ misfortune (or the Braves) that his contract is up and the others aren’t.

Other teams with more payroll might keep him. But I think the silence that greeted his availability during the trade season indicates his relative value among second basemen.

Someone will get him for cheap, and he might do fine. The Braves have a couple of options to replace him and can use that $6 million to shore up other areas.

In the grand scheme of things, it is not a big deal that he’s leaving. I think JS can find a better use for that $6 million.

By KC

December 12, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

DOB:

No, I wasn’t implying that you used those exact words. Someone else in this blog said something to the effect of “he is on the decline”. I merely dubbed this “declining player” theory, which I view as the opposite of the “had one bad year” theory (ya know, “magic bullet” vs. “lone gunman”… that sort of thing). =)

BTW: I know no one here will believe me, but I’m not really a huge Tim Hudson fan either. I don’t really have favorite players. I have one in basketball (Manu Ginobili), but that’s it. I suppose if I am partial to one player on the Braves, it would be John Smoltz… mainly because he’s been here almost as long as I’ve been a Braves fan. But seriously, I just want the guys who are going to give the Braves the best chance to win. If that’s Tim Hudson, Marcus Giles… great! If not, fine. Those who know me here will know that I was also a defender of Horacio Ramirez. I haven’t been organizing any protests over that trade. I think it’s likely to work out well for Atlanta (and Seattle, if…yes you know what’s coming… he stays healthy).

Where Tim Hudson is concerned, my only argument all along has been that 2006 was the first and only bad season of his career. I’ve stated that argument many times, and will not repeat that argument in its entirety again. But if you look at his career stats, and pay special attention to “games started”, you will notice a tangible sign that he was in fact hampered by injury in 04 and 05, two seasons in which he still posted a very good ERA. This is what I feel to be true when I look at the numbers. Contrary to popular belief, there is no framed photo of Tim Hudson hanging over my fireplace.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Chrizzo, I’m afraid that’s coming (the picture), for better or worse (I prefer anonymity _ and splendid isolation, as the great Zevon said).

Choppinmama, thanks. And great screen name.

KC, I hate you.

(kidding, man. kidding. it’s cool. glad you’re passionate. wrong, but passionate).

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Yeah, GHF, he admits he was intimidated and overwhelmed to be in a situation where the games actually meant something.

The fact that he faced up to it and rebounded in the final month with strong relief - in games that meant something - indicates he got over it.

Honestly, he sounds at least as good as some of these mouth-breathers signing zillionaire contracts.

Someone’s gonna sign him fast. He sounds like a very good eighth-inning candidate.

By KC

December 12, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Shaun: You could be right… but he’s only 28. Unless he becomes increasingly injury prone, I don’t see why he would only have 1 or 2 good years ahead.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 12, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

Chrizzo,

I imagine DOB as looking like Horatio Cain on CSI: Miami. Sorry DOB. Not that it matters to me, but that’s just how I picture you. >:)

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

by the way, watched a GREAT movie last night, “Wassup Rockers?” Don’t let the title turn you away or whatever, it’s really, really good. Directed by Larry Clark, the guy who directed “Kids” and “Bully,” only this isn’t as dark as those and not depressing, despite being about some Latino kids from South-Central LA.

It’s basically a day in the life for these seven dudes, 14-15 year olds who skateboard everywhere and have their own little punk band. They take the bus down to Beverly Hills to skate, meet some rich girls, etc. Totally original story, very real (I think he used real folks instead of actors for some parts), and, as one critic said, so “alive.” Just makes you feel good watching it, but so real and gritty.

I’d highly recommend it. And don’t worry if the first 15 minutes make you question if it’s going to be good. it gets great in a hurry after that, and you’re totally absorbed in the story. Can rent it at the big blue and yellow rental store.

By ATL-NYC

December 12, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Steroids. A friend of mine in the Padres organization says that Marcus’ brother Brian is off the juice, and that accounts for Brian’s total disappearance over the two seasons. Hard to imagine there isn’t a connection.

Kelly Johnson has the potential to be a very good major league hitter. He showed excellent plate discipline and occasional power in the minors, he’s only 25, he was drafted as a shortstop, and if his arm is ok, he can be at least as good as Giles was this season. Someone from among Prado, Escobar, and Johnson can emerge and play as well as Giles did this year, and for one twentieth of the price.

Via con Dios, Marcus.

By Edvard Munch

December 12, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

KC, YOU LIKE HIM SO MUCH, WHY DON’T YOU AND GILES GO GET A ROOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!

By KC

December 12, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

DOB: I’m not sure if “passionate” is the right word, or if “opinionated” might be more accurate. Take your pick, I guess. Though I did hear a phrase the other day that probably describes me well… “Often wrong, never in doubt”. lol

Hey, BTW DOB, you never responded to me… you didn’t like my closer-music?

By Braves_Fan

December 12, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

I hate to say it because I like the way he plays - but - Can anyone say “Steroids?”

By KC

December 12, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Edvard Munch:

I’ll answer your question in two words… RESTRAINING ORDER! lol

By Stonz

December 12, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

“His OPS has slipped from .916 to .821, .826, and last year’s .728.”

DOB: True…HOWEVER…

If we’re going to throw stats around, let’s throw them ALL around. Giles OPS, by year, by POSITION IN THE BATTING ORDER: 2003: 2nd .924, 8th (33 AB) .880 2004: 2nd .827, 3rd (63 AB) .757 2005: 2nd .850, 3rd (173 AB) .795 2006: 2nd (77 AB) .873, 1st (463 AB) .695

When he hits second, nothing has really changed. When he hits elsewhere, even in limited samples, he struggles. Why? Who knows? But will you concede that when he’s left in that #2 spot he seems to not really have lost anything?

By don

December 12, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

It appears likely that Soriano will be the next Jorge Sosa but with more injury problems. Balodelli? How about the next Oddibe McDowell?

Those who see these guys as “stars” need to take a drug test. I’m sure there were optimists on the Titanic.

By Edvard Munch

December 12, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

DON’T STEROIDS STUNT ONE’S GROOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWTTTTHHHH!!!!

By Award winning journalism

December 12, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

According to Tom Krasovic beat writer for the San Diego Union-Tribune—“The Giles brothers have talked often about wanting to play for the same team. Two years ago, when Marcus was on the DL, he spent a series with the Padres in Milwaukee, even rode the Padres bus. During a major league tour of Japan, Marcus lobbied then-Padres manager Bruce Bochy to get the Padres to trade for him, even if it led to him moving to left field.”

If this is true, and if I were the Braves, I would let a guy like that go too.

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Hey, talking about great, absorbing movies, take another look at To Kill A Mockingbird. What a classic. One of my kids read the book in middle school this year…now I’m reading it. Great book. Awesome movie.

By Edvard Munch

December 12, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

KC, THAT’S 3 THIS MONTH FOR MUUUUUUUUUNNNNNCCCCHHHH!!!!!

By Charles

December 12, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Don, nice reference. I haven’t heard the “Oddibe McDowell” name in years.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

It is true, the part about riding the bus with ‘em, but I didn’t find out about that until the following season when Krasovic told me. The part about lobbying for the trade, I have no idea. I’ll assume Kras got it from a reliable source, since he’s a good reporter/writer.

…. Very unusual move on Marcus’ part, to do that bus thing with another team in middle of a season while on the DL himself

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Stonz, no, I won’t concede that. He hit in the No. 2 spot in 2004 and 2005, and had nowhere near his 2003 stats. And who knows whether hitting second last year coincided with a hot streak, or caused it?

Bottom line, I’m sick of the leadoff excuse. Weak. And Giles himself didn’t use it, so you don’t need to. He doesn’t have to like the spot to perform there. And if he can’t, then Braves are in same position if he were back in 2007. You don’t move Edgar Renteria from No. 2, where he’s perfectly suited with his approach, moving runners over, hitting balls through the right side of the infield, etc, just because another guy prefers No. 2.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

“It appears likely that Soriano will be the next Jorge Sosa but with more injury problems,” the blogger writes.

“Yeah, I can sure see the similarities,” the beat writer responds, rolling his eyes and expressing a look of what-is-this-guy-smoking disbelief.

By Lew

December 12, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

KC-The Braves play the Mets over Labor Day weekend and Grinch, MetroMan and I were going to one of them. Grinch said you owed him a beer or something so we figured you would go, also. I think I need to get tickets soon, because I see that whole series selling out.

By Don

December 12, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

I don’t really care if Marcus is back, however, it blows my mind that Schuerholz could get nothing (not even an A level prospect) for him in trade. I mean, I still consider Giles an average to above average second baseman (maybe my mistake in judgment).

By homer king

December 12, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Maybe JS is making room for Junior. Doesn’t he play infield?

By Chambers

December 12, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

When is the “Tendering” deadline? (by the way, everything is always better in quotes…)

By Lew

December 12, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

DOB-I picked up the Grace Potter cd yesterday. You’d better just go get it. The comparisons to Bonnie Raitt are right on. You will really like this band. It’s one of the better blues albums I’ve heard in some time. Don’t worry about the picture-It probably won’t look like you. Maybe you could use your drivers license photo-they never look like you. Now Marcus-I hate to see him leave-I enjoyed watching him pay. However, let’s keep in mind that sometime this week he will be made a multi-millionaire, yet again. I do not weep for a lost career.

By Matthew

December 12, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

KC:

I’ve heard a variation of your 3:42 post regarding us Baptist preachers:

“We might not always be right but we’re NEVER in doubt!”

Bye bye Giles. If the bus and trade deal is true, then I am all for letting him go. If he doesn’t want to be in ATL, I’d drop him for a large pizza from Papa Johns.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

OK, we’re in the end-of-the-day lull, as folks finish up at the office early to get out to do battle on the freeways before the worst gridlock hits.

So during this brief lull, let me take this moment to break some news. THIS JUST IN, and you heard it here first:

FSN South (is that what it’s called now, or still?) is negotiating with ESPN’s Jon Sciambi to be one of its Braves broadcasters next season.

I’ve known “Boog” (that’s his nickname, because of hte Boog Powell resemblance) since he broke into radio in South Florida. A good dude, and knows his baseball. He did Marlins games before getting gig with ESPN couple years back, and he did a LOT of games for them in the past two years. Great radio voice, not overbearing, easy on the ears.

He’s a young guy (mid-30s, I think) and rising star.

Don’t know who he’d replace if hired, just know they’re talking to him about being a primary guy on their broadcast team.

Bringing you news, that’s why we’re here.

By brian

December 12, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

where does Buster Olney get half the stuff he writes? Well, one place is always the DOB link. Today he references DOB’s article and blog on the Braves non-tendering Giles and says Peter Angelos looks brilliant now because by vetoing the Giles/LaRoche for Roberts/Penn deal Angelos can sign Giles without giving up anything and can trade Roberts for LaRoche AND MORE>>>

Why ever would the Braves trade LaRoche straight up for Roberts much less LaRoche plus more for Roberts? Does he actually get paid for this and read what he types or does he just post what somebody told him?

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

Chambers, it’s at midnight. And of course the Braves, being the Braves, I’m fairly certain won’t make an announcement beforehand, or at midnight. But the non-tenders will be known around midnight after they’re filed with Players Association and leaked, as are all contracts, etc.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 12, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

G’day blog.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

or filed with MLB and leaked. Whatever. They’ll be known shrotly after midnight, I’d imagine. Always are.

By Charles

December 12, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

“Tendering” deadline is Midnight, EST.

By Tommy Chong

December 12, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

I’m smokin’ Labrador, man.

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Wow, traveling with ANOTHER team while you’re on the DL? That is an amazing lack of common sense. I’ll say it again, not one player is lobbying to keep Giles. I think I understand even better just why.

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Edvard Munch and Dickey Betts were born on the same day? Hmm. And DOB, the “Scream” T-shirt that has the painting with the golden arches in the background and the caption “McScream” is funny, dude. “Kids” and “Bully” were dark and depressing? :-)

Scalp ‘em, I hope they get Knapp instead of your OC too; I’d rather Auburn still be good than the Falcons continue to grossly underperform.

FBG, that was funny.

By mark (writes) badley

December 12, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

McGwire gets in on MY ballot.

Yeah.

And Enron is my favorite company. Wesley Snipes gets an Oscar. Duke Cunningham for President!

By Marcus Jive

December 12, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Hey - I’m not tender yet.

Pass the Adolph’s® Meat Tenderizer.

By marcusgilesluvr

December 12, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

I’m really p**ed off.

By Lew

December 12, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

C’mon now-That stuff someone’s smoking is getting a bad name here. No self respecting stoner would dare come up with some of these trades.

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

I didn’t realize all those other things about Marcus. I’m still not convinced he wouldn’t be a still be a .300 hitter in the 2 spot, but I’m starting to get the picture as to why they’re trading him instead of Renteria.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

IT’S OFFICIAL: Giles is non-tendered. Free agent.

So is Reitsma. Villarreal and LaRoche will be back

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Everyone is pretty high and mighty with their bus and trade talk.

It sounds very unorthodox, but we also don’t know the circumstances behind it. In the end, a guy got on a bus with his brother.

And can you blame him for wanting to go play in San Diego? The temperature ranges from like 68-80 (it’s worse than that in my dorm room). It’s remarkably clean. AND you get to look at REALLY BIG BOATS! (that paragraph was mostly just for fun)

Marcus never said he’s be a Brave for life. He would have liked to play with his brother, but he loved the Braves and played hard for us and noone can question that.

All the sudden when it looks like he’s gone, everyone has to justify it. (these quotes are made up, but representative): “His career was spiraling out of control.” “He was never that good anyway.” “Look at how terrible his swing is, no wonder he sucks!” “He didn’t want to be a Brave anyway.”

He was a GREAT player for us for a few years. We couldn’t have asked for a better second baseman. He did very well as the number two guy.

He had a very bad season this year. His numbers were declining at the age of 28.

But he still is just 28.

When it’s all said and done, it’s all about value and money. His value is not assured and we just don’t have the money to risk it.

I honestly think that at the way the market is going now, a 28 year old 2nd baseman who hit 45 doubles two of the last four years, has a career BA of .285 and a career OBP of .361 would probably in the end be a bargain for 6 mill.

But the Braves don’t have it. He’s going to go somewhere else. Sign a one-year, $4-7 million deal with someone. Probably have a good season and go somewhere for 3 or 4 years, 6-9 mill a year. (Unless he goes to San Diego in which case he might take a medium money, multi-year deal now).

The end of the story is that he is a good player who has shown the ability to be pretty great, a desirable player, a player in need of a rebound, and a player that was vital in us going from 11 to 14 consecutive championships.

No need to kick him, no need to defend him (accept for from the idiots who now claim that he sucked all along and they knew it). Just accept it and move on.

Just start mourning now so we can get over this.

By blog is not working properly

December 12, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

When I log on or refresh, I only get the posts up to 11:53 today. I post a comment, then all the rest show up. I hit refresh and it still isn’t working…

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

Or rather, I should say Villarreal and LaRoche offered contracts. Doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be back of course. But only Giles and Reitsma non-tendered. Reitsma they might try to sign at a lesser salary _ might. Giles will signe elsewhere.

Gotta write now. Just wanted you wall to know. The expected happened.

By rammerjammer

December 12, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

So, DOB, the Braves told you before midnight. What’s up with that?

By Tommy Chong

December 12, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

Giles sucked because F******* wasn’t batting in front of him, man. He didn’t see no more speedballs in the pipe.

By ernesto

December 12, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

what happened to the blog? Did we non-tender it?

By KC

December 12, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

THEY NON-TENDERED REITSMA??? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? WHY???!!!!!

just kidding.

By John Adcox

December 12, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

Any comments or details, DOB? Will you be talking to Giles?

By blog is NOT working properly

December 12, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Something is terribly wrong. I was looking for insightful commentary and all is see is a bunch of crap by someone named A.J.

By Lew

December 12, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Not Properly-Try logging on from the main page instead of the sports page.

By Fed Up

December 12, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

They should just disband this team. It’s a disgrace to let go of a player like that without getting anything for him. I hate Time Warner so much. Oh well, I can’t watch the Braves that much anymore anyway. Maybe I’ll become a Cubs fan. I can watch them on WGN. Time Warner can go to hell.

By Richard Cory

December 12, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

DOB So, you think the Braves might get Carl Crawford??

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry, KC; Reitsma will be a prominent feature of next year’s bullpen if Bobby has anything to do with it. He’s got more “Experience” closing than Soriano, so if Wicky goes down…you get the picture. Time for a nap.

By Serge

December 12, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Worst decicion the Braves have done in years. Suffice to say once Giles signs with the Mets the Braves will regret it.

By Tommy Chong

December 12, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

Hey, ajc.com dudes, why the “F**”? I only mentioned Furcal’s nickname.

By Nat King Giles

December 12, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

As was discussed, I rode the bus Non-Tendering. I gotta go, play with my bro’, Non-Tendering.

My OPS is low, and the Braves haven’t got the dough, and so John S. said no Tendering.

By 4-Star General

December 12, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

In war, what Giles did with the Padres would be considered treasonous—worthy of a bullet to the head—in business, mingling with the competition in that fashion is worthy of a firing—or a “non-tendering”.

By Marcus Giles

December 12, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

aHaaahaaahaaahahaha. To the beach, my good man. The beach. HaaaHaHa. Hah.

By Jim

December 12, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

I say keep Giles. The way I see it, there are about 4 Braves who actually bust their butt, day in and day out, each and every play. Those 4 would be McCann, Frenchy, Langerhans and, you guessed it, Giles. How about cutting loose one of the loafers who always have a stiff neck or stubbed toe to pay for someone who actually plays for pay.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

Story should be up shortly, but I’ll post it here just so you can see the early version. I’ll rewrite with stuff from agent, more from schuerholz, and hopefully Marcus. waiting on a callback from Marcus.

Schuerholz said they tried to trade him to every team that had a second-base need and plenty of others, and got no takers whatsoever. No need to wait until midnight.

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

Marcus Giles’ decade-long association with the Braves ended Tuesday when the team did not offer a contract to the second baseman, a decision that was expected because of his rising salary.

The move made him a non-tendered free agent and virtually assured that Giles, a former 53rd-round draft pick whose scrappy, aggressive style helped make him a fan favorite and 2003 All-Star, will play for another team in 2007 _ perhaps with his brother on the San Diego Padres.

The Braves have no intention of asking him back at a reduced salary.

“Sure, it was difficult,” said Braves general manager John Schuerholz, who personally called Giles with the news Tuesday afternoon. “When you get to know someone and they’ve been a big part of your success, a guy who plays the game in the fashion he played it, it’s tough.

“But we have to put together a team, and every decision we make has to be a piece of the puzzle.”

Giles is free to sign with any team and the Braves will not get compensation when he does. Schuerholz said the Braves talked to every team with a possible second-base need and tried to trade him, but couldn’t find any takers.

Interested teams likely decided to wait to see if he’d be a free agent.

The Braves have an $80 million payroll limit, of which about 80 percent is tied up in seven veteran players. They have several young players expected to compete for the second-base job, including Martin Prado and Kelly Johnson, and could always also consider cheaper veteran options that might be available later.

The Braves also non-tendered reliever Chris Reitsma before Tuesday’s midnight deadline, while offering contracts to their other arbitration-eligible players, first baseman Adam LaRoche and right-hander Oscar Villarreal.

Reitsma is recovering from elbow surgery. He’s expected to be ready for spring training and the Braves may consider re-signing him at a reduced salary _ something well below the more than $2 million he could have expected through arbitration.

Giles will weigh offers from teams, sure to include the Padres. He’s from San Diego and his brother Brian is a Padres outfielder.

Several other teams are expected to make offers, perhaps including the New York Mets, who de-throned the Braves in the NL East in 2006.

None of the Braves’ moves Tuesday were unexpected by those who’ve paid attention to the team’s offseason moves and the limited amount of room in the payroll. Schuerholz said the Braves weren’t done making moves and would likely spend money elsewhere.

Giles made $3.85 million in 2006 and had his worst full season, batting .262 with 11 home runs, 60 RBIs, a .341 on-base percentage and a career-low .387 slugging percentage.

He struggled with nagging injuries and conceded he was never comfortable batting in the leadoff position, which the Braves asked him to do because they lacked other options after losing shortstop Rafael Furcal to free agency a year ago.

Giles’ best season was 2003, when he hit .316 with 21 home runs, 69 RBIs, .390 OBP and .526 slugging percentage, numbers that made him one of the two or three most productive second basemen in the majors that season.

He hasn’t approached that overall level of performance since.

Even if his 2006 season had been better, it’s unlikely Giles would have been re-signed because of Braves payroll constraints.

“It’s not about a particular player and whether you like and respect him and appreciate what he’s done,” Schuerholz said. “We have to see that every one of these pieces fits together like a matrix, that our decisions enable us to put together our team financially.”

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

“closer Mike Gonzalez, catcher Humberto Cota, second baseman Jose Castillo and outfielder Nate McLouth to the Braves for right-hander Kyle Davies and LaRoche.”

One question about this deal… Why in the HE!! would we be trading for a catching prospect???

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 12, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

great to hear that either bob rathbun or jeff torborg probably won’t be in the booth next year. those guys are TERRIBLE.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 06:21 PM | Link to this

Jim, he’s gone. Keeping him not considered an option by the Braves now. He’ll get a good deal from some team.

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

DOB, I appreciate your devotion to the Braves and to this blog, but your devotion to the organization is frustrating at times… Why don’t you just call this what it really is… A SALARY DUMP! You can spew out all the stats you want about his declining production, but bottom line is he is without question the best option for the Braves at second base next year. Replacing Marcus Giles with Martin Prado or Kelly Johnson (or a combination of the two) without question makes the Braves weaker at that position and thus weaker as a team…

By joey

December 12, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

DOB:

In retrospect, shouldn’t Giles have been traded last season while there was a chance of getting something in return for him?

By Lew

December 12, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

DonC-I kind of wondered about that one myself.

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

I must say, it really hurts losing Giles for NOTHING! I mean shoot, talk about a kick to the groin. And then not to mention talk of him going to New York to play for the Muts, if that happens I’m going to personally write Liberty Media and voice my displeasure over their “payroll limitations.” I just hope this move doesn’t affect the chemistry of the team (of course after a losing season was there really that much chemistry anyway?)

I just know Giles plays hard day in and day out, is still a decent hitting second baseman, and is above average defensively. And to lose him for no other reason than to squeeze into our $80mil payroll is just ridiculous… I mean, it’s not like we have a young Ryan Sandberg to take over at second… We are clearly a worse team today than we were yesterday, BOTTOM LINE!

By Fed Up

December 12, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

The ridiculous thing here is what if he does end up on the Mets. With that lineup, Giles will bat eighth. That’s going to be hard for any Braves fan to swallow.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Of COURSE it’s a salary dump, Don. And of COURSE the Braves are better with him at second than, say, Prado or Johnson.

I’m sorry if you think I’ve indicated otherwise. All I tried to illustrate with the stats is that the Braves were certainly not going to commit $6 mill or so to a player who made it that much easier to let him go with his performance.

If he’d repeated his 2003 season, or come close, every year since then, you can bet he’d be under a long-term contract by now. But he didn’t, and they have no money, so they’d rather spend what they do have in another area, rather than on a guy whose performance simply doesn’t make him unexpendable. That’s all.

Let me be clear, as I have with the Glavine situation: It’s a damn shame the Braves have to make decisions based so much on money instead of what’s best for the team. But, like many other teams, they do. And it’s cost them _ last year Furcal, this year Giles and Glavine, probably Andruw a year from now.

To say I’m pro-team _ that’s disappointing from you, man. I resent that and expect more from your, more astute comments than that. You gonna read what I wrote about Glavine and say that was pro-team? Or what I wrote yesterday when the scout told me about Soriano’s winter-league performance and say that’s pro-team? Please. You can do better than that.

OF COURSE it’s a salary dump, in large part. Doesn’t take a genius to know that you have to cut somewhere to get to $80 mill, as I’ve tried to illustrate. But I guess some of you just don’t believe that, or don’t want to believe it, or whatever. Well, it’s the cold, hard truth. Deal with it.

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

I just read that Brendan Donnely (formerly of the Angels) is going to be non-tendered and become a free agent… This guy would be a steal if we could get him for a couple million a season, but I’m sure someone (Baltimore) will offer him 3 for $14mil or something ridiculous like that. He’s been a quality reliever for most of the past 5 years…

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

And DonC, about this: “One question about this deal… Why in the HE!! would we be trading for a catching prospect???”

I really don’t think you read much of what I write, huh? Or just don’t trust me when I said yesterday that deal wasn’t happening. There’s nothing to it, so you’re wasting time analyzing why Braves would trade for Cota _ who’s not even a prospect, but a backup.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

If somebody wants to give me a quote for the actual story, regarding your frustrations over the trade or the team’s financial constraints or whatever, please e-mail me at my regular address _ dobrien@ajc.com _ and give me a quote with your name and hometown on it.

I’d appreciate it. But needs to be done pretty soon.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

Also, please include your phone number just in case they want to check and make sure it’s real. Don’t think they’ll need to, but just in case. Thanks much

By JC FROM UT

December 12, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

Now that we all know Giles and Reitsma have been non-tendered, can we all get back to pretending to be GMs and figuring out how to improve this team? Who knows maybe some other teams will have some players they had to non-tender which could help the Braves. Hopefully a good left handed reliver.

By Jamie in Richmond

December 12, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this

O’Brien:

You in a bad mood today or something? Gosh man, I just scrolled through your last 8 or 10 posts that I’ve missed this afternoon and 99% of what you wrote was awfully damn condescending. I’m not trying to start a p** match, but try and remember that there are a lot of people with varying opinions, (i.e. different than yours about your guy Laroche- and in this case different than yours about Marcus). Its not my blog- obviously we’re all appreciative of you taking the time to keep us updated. But is it really necessary to take the tone that you do?

Just my 2 cents.

Look forward to more baseball talk…

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

So does anyone notice a similarity between Marcus Giles’ 2003 season and Adam LaRoche’s 2006 season? Both were kind of expected but at the same time surprising… What if LaRoche’s 2006 turns out to be the same as Giles’ 2003? We will be kicking ourselves in 2 years for not trading LaRoche when his stock was at it’s highest…

By journalist jimmy smith

December 12, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

chris reitsma will not feel the non-tendering unless he has regained feeling in his numbness. as bobbycox remarked, “he has no feeling and it is very painful.” recall that bobbycox also said mccann had hurt both his toes (more than a rumor?). now, marcus giles … as smart as chipper? where is hk with a smartness graph? and what of wicky? smart? not smart? who is going to tell him? jonathan schuerholz just moved up on the depth chart. pete orr, too.

By Stinky

December 12, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

DonC, it’s that time of the month for Davida. Cut her some slack.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

I thought Prado did a good job last year when he got the chance to play but apparently the Braves aren’t convinced he can do the job if they have Kelly Johnson learning to play 2nd. DOB, can he learn it quickly enough to be ready for opening day. He could be the answer to the leadoff question if so. Also, is anyone working with Frenchy to get him to be more patient at the plate and take the ball the other way every now and then?

By akirell

December 12, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

Don’s idea of signing Donnelly would be great. I don’t see it happening though. The Braves are strapped for cash in the most literal sense.

By JC FROM UT

December 12, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

DONC: couldn’t agree with you more about not trading LaRoache.I don’t think JS is too high on him either. Hopefully we’re both right and the talks with either Pittsburgh or LAA will heat up again. I think Thorman is more than capable of taking over for LaRoache plus Mike Gonzales would’ve been right in place to take over for Wickman in 2008. I’ve seen many Seattle games and Soriano doesn’t seem to have the killer instinct to be a closer.

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

DOB, I sincerely apologize if I offended you.

I understand what this article is about, I get it, I really do… AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT IF ONE PLAYER HAD TO GO IT IS GILES. I should have re-worded what I wrote to say I am frustrated with Liberty Media and their “payroll constraints.” I do not believe you are “pro team” like you have suggested I said, but your close proximity and dealings with the team CLEARLY make the majority of your articles and arguments lean towards the side of the Braves… That’s all… And I think that is a valid point…

By Gunther Guntersund III

December 12, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

I suppose that if the Braves let Giles go just to dump salary, then the Braves won’t have any money to sign some other non-tendered free agent that just may have been non-tendered by some other team, and if they do, I suppose the Braves weren’t actually dumping salary after all, were they?

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this

I mean, DOB, I worked for Anheuser Busch for about a year stocking shelves… And guess what, I started to drink Bud and Bud Light and have been doing it ever since… See my point???

By ncscoots

December 12, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

Jamie, do you think if you had to scroll thru 600 posts from whacked-out-GM-wannabes and trade-crazed hot-stovers proposing only-in-a-parallel-dimension trades and then crying “Whaddya think, DOB?” that you might get a leetle crank-ee, too? LOL…Even if the dude be rude, he abides.

By DonCoburleone

December 12, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

And I’ve heard alot of talk about LaRoche to the Angels for Figgins… Screw Figgins, we should be going after Maicer Izturis. The guy had better numbers than Figgins last year, is younger, and waaaaay cheaper. Not to mention he can play just about any position in the infield (2b especially) and can also steal bases… LaRoche for Izturis and a pitching prospect (maybe we can pry Saunders away?) would be a sweet deal for the Braves IMO…

By The Grinch

December 12, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

There’s been a new blog up for about 2 hrs. It’s not interesting, but it does load faster.

By Bryan

December 12, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

JC From UT - you are Smoking CRACK if you think Thorman is better than LaRoche. Seriously, Adam bashers are some of the most moronic bloggers I have ever read on this site.

I mean seriously, even the folks who go after bobby - thats kinda of a subjective argument.

Statistically LaRoche is one of the best first basemen in the the NL, he gets rave defensive reviews (Derek Lee said he was the best defensive first baseman ) and he is getting paid squat.

Liberty Media needs to pull the F’ing trigger and buy the braves so we can start signing players to long term contracts (especially LaRoche, Mcain, and Frenchy Pants)

Unlike the cubs - the braves aren’t offering contracts to players knowing another owners is going to pay the bill.

So, once again, if you don’t like LaRoche maybe next baseball season you shouldn’t cut off your cable after the all-star break - because in 2006 amongst a failing rotation a bad a$$ young catcher, a star was born at first base named Adam LaRoche -

you might want to familiarizes your self with him … he is one of the next great braves.

By Farmer Fitzsimmins

December 12, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta Braves have become the rest of MLB’s farm system.

By TommyB

December 12, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this

Evening all… I just ran across an interesting and enjoyable interview with Murph. It’s at:

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=228&p=2&c=599715

Hope you like it…

By journalist jimmy smith

December 12, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

” …they’d rather spend what they do have in another area, rather than on a guy whose performance simply doesn’t make him unexpendable. That’s all.”

this journalist wishes this journalist had written that. dob is right that the esteemed second baseman’s performace simply did not make him unexpendable in a time of budget restraint. dob found a simpler way to express how and why marcus got dumped. can that be the wurlitzer truck pulling in the driveway?

By brian

December 12, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

Don - DOB does not work for the Braves, he works for the AJC. So your Busch point does not apply to DOB. His only bias seems to me to be that he likes the Braves like many of us do. Look at most of our posts and you will see much more bias than in any of DOBs.

I have no trouble with Giles going especially reading the bus riding exploits as above. If we have a budget tough decisions have to be made, and I would say even if there was not a budget Giles would be gone next year (not non-tendered but traded away either now or next summer assuming he rebounded).

Using hindsight, it sure would have been smart to have traded him at the trade deadline in July so we could get something for Giles. In that same line of thinking, if (and a big IF of course) an opportunity to trade Andruw comes about then we need to do it. Unless Andruw fires Boras we will not resign Andruw Jones. If there is a way to minimize his loss this year while helping us in the future then that trade needs to be made. It is just frustrating seeing players walk away with no compensation for the Braves

By David-ATL14

December 12, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

AttentionnShaun, please soin this departure. Strange for a(supposed) top 5- 2b wouldn’t you agree?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

I still think LaRoche could be traded. I find it funny that both Cox and JS have said repeatedly that a leadoff hitter is unnecessary (which I personally find to be ridiculous), but the Braves seem to be working pretty hard to get a leadoff hitter.

Now, I think the Braves should approach the Yankees about a deal that would involve LaRoche and a prospect (preferably not Escobar or Salty) for Cabrerra and Proctor. The Yanks may or may not go for the deal. I think they will at least think about it for two reasons. One, they need a 1B who can play defense so Giambi stays out of the field. LaRoche fits that bill plus he can hit. Always a plus. The Yanks could also make the deal and then flip LaRoche for Gonzales. And truthfully even if they don’t include Proctor it could be a deal worth exploring. Cabrera is only 22 years old. He hit .280 with an OBP of .360 and also drove in 50 RBI. He could play LF and hit leadoff, which he did quite successfully filling in for Damon. Not to mention he has as much “upside” as Baldelli and could be the CF replacement for Andruw. Its worth considering and in the end the Braves would be giving up less than they would giving up Salty and Escobar.

I don’t know it is just a thought.

Also, what about Joey Devine? Is he even not a possibility to make the team in the spring?

By ncscoots

December 12, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Anybody proposing Kelly Johnson as a savior at 2B never saw him play short. I did. Know how it is when you go by a terrible car wreck? You don’t want to look, but you can’t help yourself? Same thing. Eclectric, he is not. I know it’s a shorter throw and everything, but the thought of KJ in the middle of a DP pivot with his back to 1B and throwing is not the story with which to lull your children to sleep, believe me. I hope the Braves have a few more options than that.

By brian

December 12, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

at least when the Marlins got rid of their high priced talent, they got top young talent in return Farmer

By journalist jimmy smith

December 12, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

is escobar afraid to play second base as reported in another paper? doesn’t like the pivot from the other side? oh, the humanity! a sissy ballplayer who must not be called, dirt. will the name dirt be retired? if the braves trade for dirt majeskie will bobby call him dirt? can hubbard still play a little bit? how old is treadway by now? lemke is out of the question - too good an announcer.

By Boz Scaggs

December 12, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Danger, there’s a breakdown dead ahead…

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

JJS, that’s the word on Escobar, that he much prefers SS because of the blind pivot on DPs. Say one thing for Giles _ he was absolutely NOT AFRAID. Ever.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

NCscoots, true on Kelly in past at SS. But as one Braves official said, look what Hubby did with Giles at 2B. In case you don’t know, Giles was an absolute butcher at 2B in his early minor league career, made 25 errors in 135 games at Macon in 1998.

He went from below-average minor league glove man to well above average major league defensive player. so there’s hope. maybe.

of course, braves could pick up a cheap veteran by trade or spring signee. you never know

I do know they’re not done making deals. At least they’re going to keep trying. Schuerholz told me that tonight, and made it clear.

I think they’ve got a shot at Baldelli, and without giving up James. I really do. But we’ll see.

By Bryan

December 12, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

brian, by talent i hope you aren’t talking about marcus giles! He is nowhere near the talent of what the Marlins gave up.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

Robert (JIB), so true on the leadoff thing. Of course, they want to be able to say it’s not important if they DON’T get a leadoff hitter.

But now with Giles out of the picture, the leadoff prospects are quite grim. I think they make a deal, for sure. I really think so, whether Figgins, Baldelli … someone.

By Troy

December 12, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this

Hypothetical situation- You are the GM of big market organization, your owner gives you full control money is not an issue?

It’s the winter of 07’ and you need a centerfielder

You look at-

Vernon Wells age 29 at the start of the 08’ season

Has played 5 full major league seasons

Career Avg: .288 Career Slug: .492 Career OBP: .336 Career OPS: .828

He has averaged 28 HR’s 98 RBI’s 10 SB’s and 90 K’s

He also has 3 gold gloves

Then-

* Andruw Jones* age 31 a few weeks into the 08’ season

Has played 10 full major league seasons

Career Avg: .267 Career Slug: .505 Career OBP: .345 Career OPS: .850

He has averaged 34 HR’s 103 RBI’s 13 SB’s (thanks to early in his career) and 127 K’s

He has 9 gold gloves

I ask these questions because I feel like these are arguably the two most similar players in all of the majors when you compare all of their talents head to head, and they will both be cashing in next winter. I would be happy to have either one on my team.

My gut tells me that Andruw will probably command about 5 years $110 million ($22 annually)

And that Vernon will get about 6 years $120 million ($20 annually)

Just thought this would be an interesting post, Thoughts?

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

By DonCoburleone December 12, 2006 07:45 PM | Link to this I mean, DOB, I worked for Anheuser Busch for about a year stocking shelves… And guess what, I started to drink Bud and Bud Light and have been doing it ever since… See my point???

No unless your point is that you were drunk when you accused me of having a pro-management bias.

By David-ATL14

December 12, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

DOB-Have you heard any further info about the Braves announcers. I got your earlier info about the possible addition of Sciambi. I know Sutton is out also.

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

DONC, by the way, you know I was kidding about the drunk comment, right? Just want to make sure. Just having some fun here, a little levity as things turn so serious…

And I understand what you’re saying, no need to apologize, but thanks for doing so anyway….

We’re all friends here (well, most), just engaging in debate/argument/discussion. No worries.

By Bryan

December 12, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Dave it struck me when you wrote NOT AFRAID, EVER- that that might be a good reason why he is not hear anymore.

Not that we don’t want fearless - but his lack of personal concern caused him a lot of injuries over the years.

I think when he was small and in the minors he had to play with every inch of his heart and body … and when he got into the majors he never let up … which is good i guess … except if he had added a little dash of “playing it smart” to the mix he might still be with us…

just a thought

By Troy

December 12, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Hypothetical situation- You are the GM of big market organization, your owner gives you full control money is not an issue?

It’s the winter of 07’ and you need a centerfielder

You look at-

Vernon Wells age 29 at the start of the 08’ season

Has played 5 full major league seasons

Career Avg: .288 Career Slug: .492 Career OBP: .336 Career OPS: .828

He has averaged 28 HR’s 98 RBI’s 10 SB’s and 90 K’s

He also has 3 gold gloves

Then-

* Andruw Jones* age 31 a few weeks into the 08’ season

Has played 10 full major league seasons

Career Avg: .267 Career Slug: .505 Career OBP: .345 Career OPS: .850

He has averaged 34 HR’s 103 RBI’s 13 SB’s (thanks to early in his career) and 127 K’s

He has 9 gold gloves

I ask these questions because I feel like these are arguably the two most similar players in all of the majors when you compare all of their talents head to head, and they will both be cashing in next winter. I would be happy to have either one on my team.

My gut tells me that Andruw will probably command about 5 years $110 million ($22 annually)

And that Vernon will get about 6 years $120 million ($20 annually)

Just thought this would be an interesting post, Thoughts?

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

Troy, I’d bet Vernon gets the bigger deal, just based on comments from GMs and agents and others that I heard at winter meetings. But you never know, if Andruw comes back 15 pounds lighter and raises his average a bit, doesn’t have so many knee/back problems, etc….

Grinch, hey, appreciate your defense of my crankiness, but it really isn’t necessary. I mean, come on. The person who accused me of crankiness focuses his or her (and I only say that because “Jamie” can be either and I honestly don’t know the gender, not meant in any way as a slam) on three things, almost exclusively: Dislike for LaRoche, strong affection for Giles, and rants about my “crankiness” or condescension. Almost without exception, since early last season, those three things.

Three bloggers and the subjects you can predict they’ll focus on:

1. Jamie: LaRoche stinks and is bad for the team, Giles plays hard and is good for team, I’m a jerk.

Stinky: Davida/O’Brain/fill in other clever name is blah blah blah, plus something to do with someone’s (usually mine) sexuality _ ALWAYS

SJA: Anything about SJA being persecuted and promises to leave the blog forever.

And that’s that. Every family has them, right?

By Troy

December 12, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

sorry about the double post don’t know what happened

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 12, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

To everyone who thinks a leadoff hitter is a non-issue tell me this. Who hits leadoff if not deals are done? Renteria despises hitting leadoff more than Giles does. It is apparent he let it be known that he didn’t want to do it or otherwise Cox would have switched he and Giles when it was apparent that Giles didn’t want to do it and it was messing with his mind. Chipper would be the next closest option because of his ability to get on base but I don’t see that one happening.

Another thing. Everyone keeps talking about how the Braves were second in the NL in runs scored and on and on and on. However, those runs were scored in bunches. The Braves went through more than their fair share of power outages. When they went on run scoring binges it was astronomical steaks. Fact is when they needed to just put a run on the board they couldn’t do it. When a runner needed to be moved over, they couldn’t do it. Frenchy was not alone in that department. Everyone says a leadoff hitter only leads off once a game. That is often true. However, unless a perfect game is thrown who is the one guy assured of getting four at-bats? That’s right. The leadoff hitter. How often do see the leadoff hitter leadoff the eight or ninth inning? It happens a lot and teams who have guys that can get on base and are good baserunners have an advantage in the late innings because “that” guy is going to get on base and spark a rally. A week or so ago someone was on here ripping David Eckstein. That was ludicrous. Wasn’t he the World Series MVP? Remember back in the regular season when Puljos went down and on the DL? The Cards offense just kept going and scoring runs. I’m not saying that the Cards could score consistently without Puljos so don’t even start it. But, for a couple of weeks they did. Now, contrast that to when Eckstein went down in late August/early September. The offense all of a sudden couldn’t score at all. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Look at the Astros. They struggled all year to score runs until Taveras went on that hit streak. How many times did Reyes bail out the Mets? Even the Red Sox struggled the second Crisp got hurt in May. The Tigers had leadoff issues all year and they caught up with them in the World Series. My point to all of this is that a leadoff hitter is important. Any offense that wishes to be balanced needs that guy who has some speed, patience at the plate, and the ability to run the bases. Yes, this offense scored more runs last year than they did in 2005 with Furcal but remember Furcal was hurt some of the year and the offense lacked the pop (Frenchy, McCann, LaRoche, Diaz, Renteria) that it has now. I know many will still ridicule and laugh at me. But, just keep all of this in mind when you hear on opening day, “And now leading off for your Atlanta Braves, Pete Orr.”

By brian

December 12, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Bryan - No I was not talking about Giles. I was talking about Andruw next year, and yes Furcal last year. Glavine and Maddux in past

By Troy

December 12, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this

DOB- Do i remember correctly that Ryan Langerhans got off to a hell of a start offensively last year then got hurt right (hand or something) did that bother him most of the year? Do you think he will ever be able to take that next step offensively or he basically a fourth outfielder? Because his defense makes you wnat him out there for 150 games

By KC

December 12, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

LEW: If you’re looking at tickets, email me at embassypro@hotmail.com with your email address.

By Troy

December 12, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Robert- I’ll agree with you that a leadoff hitter is important to the team. I absolutely hated to see furcal go, however I just don’t see too many options out there for the braves to put in that spot next year. Baldelli is a good possibility, but not at the expense of losing to much to aqquire him. after that I don’t know where ATL will look, my bet is that JS will make a deal that no one sees coming and we’ll have a servicable guy at the top of the order next year

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Bryan, very good point about Giles, about his aggressive/reckless play. And I don’t disagree. It made him the player he is, but yes, almost made him susceptible to injuries. Remember the collision with Pryor? The head-first slides that resulted in a couple of hand injuries?

By KC

December 12, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

Grinchy: email me at the address in my last post when you get a chance. We can try to nab some tickets as soon as they go on sale. (Though I’m not sure when that will be).

By Jamie in Richmond

December 12, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

DOB:I know for sure I’m not the only one who’s irked by LaRoche and the only one who’s enjoyed watching Marcus play the game all out. To refer to me in the manner of “every family has one” is unnecessary.

Anyway, I’d rather just talk baseball in a peaceful fashion if thats cool with you

By KC

December 12, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

DOB: No answer? You didn’t like my closer music?

By Marcus Giles

December 12, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, I believe you cut your list of predictable bloggers a bit short there pal, don’t forget: journalist jimmy smith: obsessed with wanting to be a journalist/wants to be liked by all the “good bloggers”/pie/toes/cheese/goats/and last but not least his adoration of the wurlitzer winning DOB. Bob, journalist/plain AND simple: long-winded rants about absolutely nothing/Methinks. Carolina Lady: likes to dish it out/but how dare you give her a dose of her own medicine. Grinch: jack of all things/master of none. LeTwan Anthony/jjs/third person pie boy/loves his mama a bit too much. JJS: oh already mentioned the esteemed journalist/but he won’t mind/he likes attention. and on and on and on and on …….

By A.J.

December 12, 2006 10:16 PM | Link to this

Wait a second Jamie…

Are you calling Dave a jerk?

…

check, check, and check.

By Stinky

December 12, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you think we can get Carl Crawford?

By DonE

December 12, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

If I were a betting man, I’m guessing that there is a 50% + chance Schuerholz re-signs Reitsma to continue the garbage in/decent players out trend.

By Bryan

December 12, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Ohh yeah, prior came to mind… also remember all those flat out, belly busting, full streatched out attempts to catch balls FAR out of his reach … i mean its a catch 22, sort of … ok, so not a catch 22 - but how bout some ballance Gilly! Just some ballance!

You want a player to bust balls - but its a long season but damn, he hit the ground, other players, and teamates WAY to frequently.

Ohh and thanks for the inclusion on the internet story … if only it had made the papers … maybe JS would have seen my name and asked me to pick ball park music for the next twenty years.

“Now Stepping to the plate, number 7, Jeff Franc…. (name drowned out by “I hear the train a’commin, commin round tha bend”)

By Bryan

December 12, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this

brian,

good I am glad you were talking about tallent. I can only hope so much from a name sake … don’t understand the “i” thoug… guess i never will.

By brian

December 12, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

“i” is Scottish and the “y” is English

By Bruce

December 12, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

Dave, Before we get rolling with the next major topic like speculation about who we might try to sign amongst the non-tenders…

I want to thank you for so patiently doing what it takes to help us understand why the Braves could not keep Marcus.

Again you have made this deadline exciting,(similar to the Glavine lead-up and the winter meetings) even though we came to expect what occurred.

Thanks. Bruce

By Ryan

December 12, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

If LaRoche does not accept the deal from the braves, what does that mean? that he is a free agent next year and why would he accept a low end deal when there is so much talk about him that he could deny it and accept a bigger contract next year from someone else? Please inform me DOB, im a bit confused, as i do not know much about his contract situation.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 12, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

Crikies!!From the post by “Marcus Giles”, looks like SJA has resurfaced, despite his promise to leave the blog and never come back.

I hate that we lost Marcus. He played hard, gave his all, played well, and seemed like a good guy. Good travels to ya Marcus - we hardly knew ye!

For those lamenting over his leaving, think about this. Last year when we got outbid for Furcal, I wondered how we would replace his range, his cannon arm, his power in the lead off spot, and his ability to be disruptive (speed) on the basepaths. Then, JS pulled off the Edgar deal. What we got was less range, lesser arm, steadier defense, fewer errors and no balls thrown into the 6th row of the stands. We got less power, less speed, but more hits, higher BA, better bat handling, and fewer strike outs swinging for the fence. All in all, a wash as between the two, at worst, and perhaps better with Edgar.

For all of you choads (look it up on www.urbandictionary.com if you don’t know what that means) who think you know it all, and that JS/BC don’t know what they are doing, consider this. Outside of last year’s bullpen debacle, neither have settled for mediocrity since they have been here. They have always either put a quality player at every position, or done their damndest to do so. I have to think that by letting Marcus go, they either (a) have a plan to acquire a quality 2B through a trade or FA signing or (b) they know much better than any of the experts here what the capabilities of the farm boys are. JS and BC didn’t win 14 straight division titles by being hayseeds or naive. I have confidence they know what they are doing, and will do their best, within the budget constraints, to put a good team on the field next year.

For those of you who either were not alive, or were not Braves fans in the 70’s & 80’s, if you think what is going on now demonstrates ineptness on the part of management, you ain’t seen NOTHING. Space here, and your patience in reading an epistle, in recounting all of the bad deals that were made, stupid FA signings, etc. just could not do justice to this topic. Suffice to say that one of the very first moves JS made after coming on board was to sign Terry Pendleton - who was the absolute rock of this team through the early to mid 90’s, and in my opinion, set the table for our team’s success. You have no idea how fortunate we have been to have an extremely competent management team in place all of this time. And, they didn’t suddenly get dumb, folks.

I hate that the Braves let Marcus go. I hate that Marcus played his butt off through the minors and majors, only to get unceremoniously dumped like this. But, its baseball, and its bidness. When you show up at a vintage car show with a late model car, that has served you well, but has body damage, bondo and a history of breakdowns, you won’t get many, if any, takers. Unfortunately, that is what happened here. Its the market, and the law of supply and demand dictates, whether any of us like it or not. Happy Trails to you Marcus. Wish you well, as long as you ain’t playing us. As for the team next year, we’re gonna

SCALP ‘EM BRAVES

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Bruce, you’re very welcome.

Jamie, I’d really enjoy discussing baseball with you, rather than my temperment as though you were my parent. Thanks, that’d be great. It’s a deal.

Bob, JJS, Grinch, CL, that 10:03 post really stings, doesn’t it? Ouch. (I’m just surprised he made it through without a sexual reference….)

By David O'Brien

December 12, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Ryan, I’m going to assume you’re being serious and just aren’t aware that LaRoche doesn’t have a choice whether to “accept” or not. He’s not a free agent. He’s under Braves’ control. So was Giles, but Braves cut him loose rather than pay his salary.

LaRoche, as a first-time arbitration-eligible player, will probably make less than half of the salary Giles would have made as a third-time arbitration guy.

LaRoche will get about a 500 percent raise, however, give or take a half-mill or so, to between $2 mill and $3 mill, probably closer to latter. Players get very large percentage raises in their first year of arbitration, which comes after they accrue three years of service (or are in the top 10 percent of those players with less than three years’ service), the “super-two” arbitration guys with nearly three years.

By Bryan

December 12, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

See, i was leaning towards “y” as in:

brYan, “Y” dont you pass me another beer.

brIan, sure “I” will get it for you brYan.

it also goes better with my Hip Hip title “M.C. OBGbryan”

(say it a few times over to get joke)

By Snowball's Chance

December 12, 2006 11:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, Thanks for the baseball fix. I liked both Giles and Furcal as Braves but I’m not surprised to see them go. I have a problem with little guys who swing for the fences.

I have been lurking since “The many faces of Eve” messed up the blog last season. You get the blog humming with the great winter meeting blogs and in a few days Eve and her evil twins multiply like cooties.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 13, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

I’m going to regress the blog…

Stinkey,

I’m sitll waiting on the time, place, and wager concerning me passing ENG 101. My proposal is that I show you sealed copies of my transcripts from college or my diploma….the bet $3k..and we meet at Jack and Jills by the CNN center in downtown ATL….how bout them apples?

To those of you who are confused by this post. A few blogs ago, stinky said he would answer my questions if I prove to him that I passed ENG 101. Well little does stinky know that I graduated college with a 4.0….and mabey, just mabey I can make some money off this loser.

By athens rotgut

December 13, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this

Sorry theres not too much to be said about baseball that hasnt already been said except i like PRADO to start at 2nd above anybody else we have so far. The kid looked great and looked like he had the guts to play everyday in the few times i saw him,

However This is a sweeeeeet recording of Bob Dylan and the Band in Boston in Jan of 74. Anybody get a chance to catch a BAND show? I cant imagine anything id rather go see than a B&band show from back in the day. i had a prof. that went to the Levon Helm festival or something like that that Levon holds at his home in NY every year. SOunds way nice. i keep talking about trying to make it but we still havent.

Heres the link: (Bob and Band)[http://panicstream.com/streams/bobdylan/197401_14/player.html]

By athens rotgut

December 13, 2006 12:18 AM | Link to this

just look at the setlist

Bob Dylan and the Band Love Songs For America Boston Garden 1974 JANUARY 14,1974

Loaded by Legba420

Disc one Rainy Day Women #12 & 35 Lay Lady Lay Just Like Tom Thumb’s Blues It Ain’t Me Babe I Don’t Believe You Ballad Of A Thin Man Stage Fright The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down King Harvest This Wheel’s On Fire

Disc two I Shall Be Released Up On Cripple Creek All Along The Watchtower Ballad Of Hollis Brown Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door The Times Don’t Think Twice Gates Of Eden Just Like A Woman It’s Alright Ma (I’m Only Bleeding)

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 13, 2006 12:55 AM | Link to this

DOB:

I have been called to task by a poster on the “Non-DOB’ blog posted re: the non-tender of Marcus, on the (your) Braves Blog site - don’t care about the jerk calling me out (I copied and posted between the 2 blogs because it took in excess of 15 minutes to post here - before it did, just figured I would copy and paste, etc).

That notwithstanding, do you, as an “insider”, have any thoughts about what JS/BC have in mind for a 2B, the blather of the so called experts here on the blog notwithstanding??

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 13, 2006 01:03 AM | Link to this

I think JS will work something out. I think he learned a lesson last year about the bullpen and a leadoff hitter. He realize that both are needed. He got his closer in Wickman and insurance in Soriano and could get even more insurance with Gonzlaes. While Kelly Johnson could be great as a leadoff hitter, him at 2B seems a bit scary to me. This TJ Bohn kid interests me. It seems as though a lot of people have good things to say about him and the feeling in Seattle is that the Mariners have got robbed by the Braves twice so far this winter. DOB, can this Bohn kid run? Does he steal bases? Could he shine in spring training and steal the LF job give that Baldelli, Cabrerra, or Figgins doesn’t get acquired? What about that Blanco kid in the minors?

By Whiner Police

December 13, 2006 01:12 AM | Link to this

Whiner!..Whiner!!..at 12:55 A.M…Whiner!..at 12:55 A.M.

By Einstein

December 13, 2006 02:38 AM | Link to this

Billy—college graduates are a dime a dozen, 4.0?…So what?…nothing to brag about on a baseball blog. Come back when you’ve lived a little out in the real world, and tell us all about it, we aren’t interested with what goes on in your mother’s basement.

By paluka

December 13, 2006 07:28 AM | Link to this

BRYAN: jc from ut didnt say thorman was better than laroach he said he was capable of replacing laroach maybe you are crack or just cant read

By Bryan

December 13, 2006 07:50 AM | Link to this

more than capable was the phrase my good sir…

only smoke the kind, got no stock in da rock

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 13, 2006 08:09 AM | Link to this

I have to say that I’m a bit disappointed about the sudden Giles bashing. This bus incident, which DOB acknowledged happened but only the fact he was on the Padres’ bus to the Brewers game, is weird to me. If this happened in 2005 why is it just now being mentioned? I am not condoing it but just curious why this is all of a sudden getting brought up. Truth is, Giles has busted his a* for this team. He has put it on the line more than once. He was the heart and soul of the team. Everyone liked him. They must have not seen him as the “cancer” some are making him out to be. I doubt they were just putting on a show for the public.

Giles’ releasing was necessary and one of the unfortunated consequences of this business and the current state of baseball. Perhaps it is easier for some people to deal with his leaving by villifying him. Of course, some people on her villify others without any rhyme or reason. Some people are never happy. It just kills me. The same people who are trashing JS right now for the Glavine deal would be the same ones ripping him if Glavine had signed saying how ridiculous it was to get a 40 year old pitcher. Amazing.

By BB FAN

December 13, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

I saw a few interesting names on the Non-tender list that the Braves should seriously consider:

Brandon Claussen - Getting out of the band box in Cincy might help a lot. Still young and will only be 28 next season. He was horrible in 2006, but in 2005, he won 10 games and had an ERA of 4.21. He may be good enough for the 5th spot in the rotation.

Jerome Williams - This guy was supposed to be real good, but just hasn’t done anything yet. Still young and will only be 25 next season. Another possible 5th starter.

If they could sign these guys for under $500,000 each, then I think it would be worth it. Claussen only made $370,000 last year, Williams only $380,000. Both could likely be signed for under $500,000 each.

Joel Pineiro - He had some decent years from 2001-2003, but got hurt. He may bounce back with a change of scenery. Still young and will only be 28 next season. Again a possibility as a 5th starter. But a long shot because of he made $6.8 million last year. But he might take closer to $1 or 2 million to re-establish himself.

The Braves could then include Davies with Salty and/or Escobar in a trade for Baldelli and not worry about losing depth in the rotation.

By ncscoots

December 13, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

BBFAN, if any of those three guys are as good or better than Davies, why wouldn’t TB try to sign THEM instead of making a trade? If, instead, none of those three are as good or better than Davies, then why would the Braves sign them? I’m not even saying that they aren’t worth a look from the Braves, just that your scenario isn’t logical.

By BB FAN

December 13, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

ncscoots,

It’s very logical. TB wants young prospects with lots of potential. Those 3 guys are beyond the young prospect label. Davies has a lot of potential and could very well be a solid number 2 starter or better some day. Those 3 are probably going have to settle on being 4th or 5th starters at best.

The Braves would be taking a chance but it would be worth it. Baldelli would improve the lineup as well as the outfield defense. And he would be great insurance in center field if Andruw leaves next year. And they would still have Villerreal and Cormier to compete with those guys.

By David O'Brien

December 13, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Rotgut, that setlist does sound phenomenal. If I had one rock show that I could attend, other than any Clash show when they were at their peak, or a Cash review show at his peak (or just about any time), it might be “The Last Waltz” show, the Band’s farewell. I have the DVD of Scorcese’s movie, and the extra DVD that comes with it has so much great stuff that wasn’t in the original movie. Just incredible stuff.

By MGL

December 13, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Is this blog hung???

By Joe Fan

December 13, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Considering Jorge Sosa was non-tendered yesterday, think the Braves might offer him a minor league contract? Or have they washed their hands of him?

By Paul

December 13, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

DOB,

nothing beat a dead show when they were “on”. However, when they were “off” they were awful. Although, I would have loved to see the Clash in their prime. What would it take to bring in Figgins? What would the Angels ask for? I think he would be a better fit than Baldelli. Not saying that Baldelli (tampa is asking way too much) isn’t a solid player, but Figgins would be a presence at the top of the order.

By ncscoots

December 13, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

To those bloggers with leadoff on the brain, I will make a prediction, in the true spirit of Jim Tom Pinch (via Dan Jenkins): I predict that, in 2007, a human will hit leadoff for the Braves. There, now that’s settled.

By Carlos Amato

December 13, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Toronto just offered a seven-year deal worth $126 million for Vernon Wells.

About 18 mil a year.

Braves may kiss AJ goodbye.

By Babblon

December 13, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, I agree that “The Last Waltz” concert would be the one concert I wished I had seen live.

I copy and pasted the column in the Oregonian that someone placed a link on earlier:

For several seasons, Seattle has talked about developing young players but done a poor job of it. (Even the Mariners couldn’t miss the exceptions to that statement: shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt and second baseman Jose Lopez.)

But infielder Greg Dobbs, who has been an outstanding hitter at every level, got 27 at-bats in 23 games with Seattle last season. Jones, the franchise’s top prospect, got a whopping 74 at-bats in 32 games, but manager Mike Hargrove often pinch hit for him late in games. T.J. Bohn, the best athlete in Seattle’s minor leagues, got 14 at-bats in 18 games. Choo was given the briefest of looks before being dealt to Cleveland.

Even an All-Star would struggle at the plate with the equivalent of about one at-bat a game.

Atlanta claimed Bohn on waivers shortly after Seattle posted him this month. Atlanta’s front office simply called Dave Brundage for a reference after hiring the former Seattle minor league manager to direct its Triple A team in Richmond, Va. Bohn played for Brundage last season in Tacoma before Brundage, a former minor league manager of the year, was fired by Seattle. Brundage gave Bohn a hearty endorsement, and another talented Seattle prospect was gone — for nothing in return.

The columnist is Brian Meehan. He is a good writer and a good person. He coached my son one year in LL.

By No

December 13, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

No!~ Nothing “hung” on this blog!

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