Braves

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Im first

By crimedogrules

December 8, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

Davies is the only aspect that hurts… but as they say on MLB Home Plate “A good trade must hurt on both sides.” It would but we would probably be happy if he has agreat season next year.

I agree though thank goodness for Peter Angelos.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

If we get Baldelli, is Cox going to call him Baldy?

By Don

December 8, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

Well, let’s just completely clear out the future for another accident prone,at best, “possibly could be”. After all, his main attraction is that he is cheap.

The Braves won’t win with Baldelli any more than they will win with the status quo. Saltalamacchia, Davies, James, Escobar. Why not complete the suicide and throw in Andrus, Campbell, and Harrison?

I just hope that somehow the fools are saved from themselves. Schuerholz has long overstayed his welcome. It is no wonder that the Braves are the major leagues’s alltime underachiever.

I have been a Braves fan since March of 1953. However, if the Braves strip the future for Baldelli, I’m gone.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 09:59 PM | Link to this

It would be a tough call for me, only because I’m so sold on Escobar (more so than Salty, even). Davies and Salty? In a heartbeat, but all three is a lot to swallow. And then whither pitching? Seems to me Braves would be down to offering surplus outfielders, low-value pieces, for any left-handed RP they could find. Certainly the chances of getting a starter would seem in the wind. Dunno…a lot to be said for both making the trade and not.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

Wow that seems like a lot to give up…the question I have is who plays left field next year (08)? We are going to be back in the same boat just with out AJ. I think losing Salty wont hurt at all because of McCann…besides it doesn’t sound like he’s the type you want to use as a back up. The middle infield concerns me…we will downgrading at 2nd and SS within 2 years however, that may be mitigated by budget relief (AJ, Hampton, etc). I say pull the trigger…if, and I mean if our scouts tell us he’s the real deal…if not I don’t think its worth a gamble at that price

Some of my other non-consequential blog musings:

KC, that was admirable of you…but your not going to convince Seattle fans of anything…some here think the Braves fans are finicky but the Mariners base is the worse I’ve ever been around. Man I wonder if they read the Bucco Blog…that would knock their socks off…

Wow, the people who don’t like J.S. should check out what the Seattle fans think of Bavasi. That is some funny stuff….they are really planning a protest? That’s crazy! Also found a thread about a petition to fire the poor guy. “OH good lord. Now THAT I didnt see. When I signed it I didnt look at everyone who signed. This is a baseball forum, not a religious one.”

Homeboy upstairs….you are da man!!!!! Once again I am shown how good we Braves fans got it. However, that is tempered by ownership that sees our team as an “operating asset” that “maybe attractive as eventually saleable; baseball teams aren’t likely to decline in value.”

Mariner,

15 Million? I’m not sure but I think AJ would take that to stay in ATL. If we don’t get AJ at 15 Million I don’t see the Braves paying too many players short of King Albert that kind of ransom.

P.S.

Poor Horacio he’s going to get tore up by those people…poor guy.

DOB your a fan best friend.

other notes:

By BMc

December 8, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

Salty, Escobar, and DAVIES…………you must be smoking crack!!!!!!!!!

By futurebravesgm2413

December 8, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

I’d do the deal too. We’ve got lots of depth. An outfield of Baldelli, Jones, and Frency is a powerful team. Add them with our other position players we may be looking at a great season.

By pelk

December 8, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

I love the idea of Baldelli, but I do feel like we would be giving up a lot under the current discussion. Obviously, TB needs pitching. Davies will be a stud, which is why they would want him for a player that is already a stud. That’s fine.

It isn’t even Salty that I have the problem with. We DO have one of the best young catchers in the league and will for some time. We don’t need a guy like Salty to back him up. That would simply be a waste of his value. Take into account his year last season and taht trade makes complete sense. It’s Escobar. I realize we have talent coming up in the infield, but we also won’t have Giles in about a week. We will need someone who is ready to go if Prado or whomever else we get to compete for that position doesn’t work out. Not to say Escobar IS ready to go, but he’s our best current option.

I don’t know what TB money situtation is, but is there anyway they are interested in Giles. They could easily move him back to the 2 spot with Crawford at 3, plus they would be getting a massive improvement over Jorge Cant’do.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

Gotta do it. It takes care of many immediate and future problems. Davies can be replaced and the other two aren’t going to be missed. Salty may be good, but McCann and Brayan Pena have us covered at catcher.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

oh yeah…I am almost positive JS won’t give up three legit prospects…He has never done that before….look what we gave up for Hudson and McGriff. Even then those were not our best prospects.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

I think Davies is the next J. Schmidt on our team.

By Derrick

December 8, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

No Way I would trade Escobar & Salty , only a fool would give the farm away like this, but of course the fools traded Wainswright for 1 year of Drew and gone!

By The Godfather

December 8, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this

**DOB, Thanks for the Info, and do you see the Braves chances of aquring Baldeli are greater, equal or less than the Orioles, and White Sox chances?

By David

December 8, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

As I said, our two best position prospects and Davies is too much to pay for a guy coming off ACL and Tommy John surgeries as well…especially one with lingering hamstring issues in both legs.

And I say this as someone who has been a huge Rocco Baldelli fan since his MLB debut.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 8, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

I know the D-Rays covet young pitching and that is something the O’s have. But, how much of it would they be willing to give up? They don’t have the postion players. The White Sox have one pitcher that everyone wants and that is Brandon McCarthy. The Sox have stated emphatically they won’t give him up. I have actually heard the Phillies inquired about him but they just gave the White Sox the best prospects they could have offered. Who knows? Maybe that’s why the White Sox made the trade. I don’t know or have heard who the other team could be. On the surface it would appear the Braves have the best offer because of Salty and Escobar. However, if pitching is that important to the Rays then that could put the Braves at a disadvantage with James not being in the mix. Of course, under no circumstances should the Braves trade James.

Baldelli would be a steal. I’m not getting my hopes up. I’m still wondering if anyone has said ANYTHING about Giles. This whole situation is very strange.

By kinley

December 8, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

I’d pull the trigger.

Salty might be a big, sweet-swinging switch-hitting catcher, but to be honest, he really has no place in Atlanta. The best thing for him would be trading him. We’d be doing him a favor. He’s not going to get playing time in Atlanta. Giving him a shot to crack a ML lineup in some other city would be in his best interests.

As for Escobar, he sounds good, but he doesn’t really offer much that Prado or even Aybar doesn’t. The Braves have a glut in the middle infield as far as prospects go, and any of them could be deemed expendable.

Davies is really the only one I’m on the fence about. On one hand, he was terrible last year, albeit with the help of a pretty severe goin injury. On the other hand, he’s got gigantic upside. I’m sure you guys remember that gem he threw in his first ML start @ Yankee Stadium.

I’d still make the trade if I was Schuerholz, though I’d worry about the depth of the rotation, just like everyone else.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

If we make this deal, we’ll have Baldelli, Diaz, Langerhans, Francoeur, and AJ. That’s almost as deep as the pitching will be after the trade. Seems we could exchange Langerhans for Escobar or Salty or even a pitcher. Too steep in my mind. Maybe there is another deal coming though.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

DOB…what other players can that package bring…..you think that trio can get a lot better than badelli?

By Sir Stealth

December 8, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

Giving up all three is too much. Salty and Escobar hurts bad enough. Can maybe accept that but tossing in Davies is too steep.

Don, I know you don’t mean that. I’m a young man and sports have already beaten me down time and again. Probably much more misery than happiness from following them, but I can’t walk away and wouldn’t want to.

I think Baldelli for Salty and Escobar could be fair if he wasn’t so injury prone, but this deal sort’ve worries me. Also, I agree with people who aren’t so dead sure about J.S’s genius any more. I agree with his overall philosophy and he belongs in the Hall of Fame, but he’s also gotten lucky a lot and benefited from a great farm system (which I guess he does deserve some credit for). The potential trade with the O’s is very disillusioning and makes me want him put in a straight jacket before he tries anything like that again.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

Pelk-The Braves say Escobar is NOT ready for second base in the majors, so apparently he is not an option. I know they have Prado, who batting 8th with Baldelli leading off should work out ok. Kelly Johnson is also taking second base tutoring by Glen Hubbard. I imagine that Tony Pena could play 2nd in a pinch, too. I think Aybar may spell at second and third. Giving Chipper a day off every week would probably be a good thing. As far as depth in pitching. There has been speculation that (despite what Mark Bowman says) Matt Harrison, a stud lefty will be ready around August and Lerew is due to step up and be all he can be. Jojo Reyes may be a year or so away.

By David

December 8, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

As has been pointed out on the prior blog, the D-Rays acquired a top catching prospect from the Dodgers at the deadline last year. I’m not seeing Salty as being a huge asset in any discussions with them unless it evolves into a three team deal.

By 29 to c'town

December 8, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

DOB, read daily but rarely post- Been a faithful fan in Va. since before Phil Neikro’s hair was gray. I’m with you about Rocko & I’d give up Davies & either Salty or Escobar. Chuck J completely out of the question, he’s a perrenial All-Star talent if he holds up. But doesn’t giving up arguably the organization’s top three prospects for one solid player with a bigger salary (didn’t say big, just bigger) deplete the farm system of major league ready talent for the next 1-2 years & tie the brass’ hands of future trades & signings? I wouldn’t blink at giving two of the three & maybe a lower-level prospect, but I would have to seriously question this particular 3-for-1 deal.

By Don

December 8, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

Lemmings following the fool, Schuerholz, off the cliff.

What makes any of you believe that Baldelli will flourish in Atlanta? How do you know he will reverse his history and be healthy?

Amazing. No wonder you are satisfied with one championship in all of those division-winning years. You are either brainwashed or braindead.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

Well, as far as TB goes, if it ain’t pitchin’, it ain’t tradin’. They’ve made it very clear that only ML-ready pitching would get one of their prime players. So I guess it will eventually come down to what teams other than the Braves are offering for arms. Garcia’s gone from the White Sox so McCarthy has a slot, doubt they would now move him, so who could they offer? Would Baltimore offer Bedard or Lopez, you think, or would it be back to Penn on the table? Problem for the Braves, I guess, is that a more attractive pitcher might be offered, which means they would have to make up the difference in the other pieces.

But will ANYBODY stand still for the armed robbery TB is sure to try? That might be the go/no go on any deal.

By David

December 8, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

What I don’t understand is why Prado is hitting .240 while Escobar is hitting .400 and we’re saying the latter player isn’t ready for the majors while the other is penciled in as a starter.

By Adam (Atlanta)

December 8, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

DOB: This trade scares the sht out of me. I’d love to see us acquire Baldelli, and I’d even be happy seeing us give up Davies & Salty, but Davies, Salty & Escobar?? NO WAY!! I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but I’m more excited about Escobar’s future than I am Salty’s (and I’m very high on Salty.) I can’t remember a time in JS’s history with the Braves that he’d ever given up our top *two prospects, plus a pitcher, for one player, no matter how dynamic the player we’re discussing. That price is just way too steep. Is there any chance Tampa would take Davies, Salty and someone other than Escobar? (I’ve read that the Rays are notorious for asking for the moon for their players - is this still true after the departure of Chuck Lamar?)

By David

December 8, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

“You are either brainwashed or braindead.”

I’m neither one of those but I am somewhat coincidentally currently listening to “Maybe You’ve Been Brainwashed Too”.

By Troy

December 8, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of getting Baldelli but I agree with some of ya’ll that Escobar is the one guy I would balk at including. I wonder if the D-Rays would be interested in Salty, Davies and Thorman instead, with Laroche sticking around maybe Diaz could get a crash course @ 1B in Spring Training to be the backup to Roachy

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Don,

Wow! That was constructive….insult people that will get them to change their minds…you sound like a Mariner fan. LOL

By ssiscribe

December 8, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

Ah, nothing like the Hot Stove steamin’ on a frigid Friday night in the ATL.

Baldelli fixes A LOT of problems (leadoff, left field, center field potentially in 2008, on the cheap for the next five years). You’ve got to give up talent to get talent, but in return you’re getting a guy who will be a bargain for years to come, who can lead off, who can play left this year and potentially center next year.

You’re giving up a bunch, but Mac’s got the plate locked up (and yes, Pena is a solid No. 2 guy who probably could start for some teams), and there is depth up the middle. It hurts to trade Salty and Escobar, given their potential, but those two don’t bother me as much given the state of things in the organization.

Really, I hate having to throw in Davies. I think he’s got the stuff to win 15 games consistently in the bigs. I’d hate to see him go somewhere and blossom into an All-Star. But again, you have to give up something to get something.

If it’s me, I’d do it. It’s AJ’s last year, and there are no guarantees Smoltz is going to pitch much longer. Chipper can’t stay healthy. The bullpen now is settled (at least the eighth and ninth innings). No reason not to try and win the whole darn thing right now, so pull the trigger and let’s try not just to regain first in the division, but try to be the last one standing next October.

—30—

By The Grinch

December 8, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

I guess I’m blind, but I really don’t see why everyone’s creaming so hard over Davies. I know he’s young, and I see he has good stuff, but I also noticed he’s so emotionally fragile he might as well be going through menopause. If we can get someone we need for him, I say give him a quick hug and a bus ticket, then run like we stole something.

By JC FROM UT

December 8, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that JS is not opposed to trading Adam LaRoach at all. This being said why not offer Adam and Davies for Baldelli.Tampa gets a proven first baseman and the young pitcher they want and JS wont have to give up Escobar. As far as Salty goes, I don’t see why Tampa would want him to catch since they just got Dioner Navarro last season at the trsding deadline. Now JS could turn around and offer Salty to Houston for Chris Sampson and he could take Davies spot in the rotation.

By dadgum

December 8, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

Actually posting at the beginning of a blog for a change. Hey, hey look at me up here guys…..Oh yeah, it’s Friday night and the rest of you have a life. Knew there had to be a reason.

Ok, yeah DOB I would pull the trigger on that one. Here’s why. Salty is a project (yeah big upside)and frankly the Braves don’t need him. Obviously we are set at catcher 2 deep and 1st base is set and no sense giving Salty on the job training there. Sure he will pan out but he is in the wrong place at the wrong time. New scenery will do him some good. Not really up to speed on Escobar but if Elvis Andrus is a couple years away at SS then Renteria can handle that till then. Again another young star rising but not helping the A Braves this year anyway or next year. So technically you give up nobody who would be helping you anytime soon. In return you plug immediate needs in LF and leadoff and get a guy who will play every day and play well. Not to mention affordable. Even if you have to kick in a Kyle Davies again you at best lose a potential 5th starter who we aren’t real sure will pan out this year or even make the starting 5.

The Braves are deep talent-wise throughout their organization. Yeah we lose some young players but who’s to say we won’t be getting good draft picks that could rise fast at the right time for our needs. This trade, if it happens or we are lucky enough to win out, is a slam dunk in my book. Go with the known over the unknown unless your crystal ball has a direct line to Shoeless Joe.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

“But will ANYBODY stand still for the armed robbery TB is sure to try? That might be the go/no go on any deal.”

That cost them lugo last year…and may cost them this year as they would be dumb not to trade him.

By dadgum

December 8, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

ok…Billy was the first post and only post when I hit post. Now look at me…further down the page. I wanna be first Billy…damn it.

By Dane

December 8, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

We have to get Baldelli that would be awesome we can keep giles and we would have one of the best offenses in baseball.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

JC FROM UT,

No way….LaRoach with lower prospect…mabey.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 8, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

when asked his favorite stadium song: “Johnny Cash’s “Ring of Fire.” I like when they throw that on there at the stadium.” — Devil Rays outfielder Rocco Baldelli

this should pretty much nail it. rocco apparently is made of the right stuff. of course, the braves lose a whistler if this deal goes through. jimmy smith was looking forward to the whistling infielder.

interesting that a team that was focusing on pitching (how long was it before a starter won a game at the beginning of last season?) taking two starters out of the mix is strange business. smoltz is still gonna be 41 years old and hampton is still gonna be coming off surgery and hudson is still … oh, the humanity!

By Calvin21

December 8, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

Davies is a future top of the rotation starter. Yunel is a future stud in the middle infield. Salty should be our future 1st baseman, if the Braves would ever realize that. He has no chance of playing behind the plate. We had the right idea, trading Laroche and Giles for a leadoff guy and young pitching. This would leave us with 3 young starters and open up a hole for Salty. Salty is a future star, and I’m not so sure Laroche had a fluke season. This is way too much to give up. If JS does this, he should be forced to retire.

By Troy

December 8, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

DOB- As of right now if there were no more transactions the 5th spot in the rotation would likely be a competition between Villareal, Cormier, and Davies. Correct?

In your opinion who are we better off with there?

By The Grinch

December 8, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, you’ll always be first in my book, ya big lug ya.

Really, though; the Vulture can go 5 or six and give up three as well as any fifth starter out there, and he doesn’t look like Reba Macintire in a spousal abuse tv movie when he walks off the mound. MAKE THE TRADE.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

Who agrees with me that Davies is our only real hang up with this deal….and whats funny is thats the player they would want.

Speculating here but….Why not trade Giles and…gulp…LaRoach for Penn and someone else from Baltimore(I dont know baltimore that well) then make the deal with TB using that trio for Badelli and Cantu.

Now that would make us happy right?

By Serge

December 8, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

Basically we should do it cause he would replace Giles production? No thanks.

I still say we should keep Giles but thats another argument.

Fact is, Rocco has major surgerys on his legs/arms and thats a BIG warning side. You dont know how thats gonna affect his range in CF/LF and were paying wayy to much Davies AND Salty AND Escobar?

No thanks. I dont want Oscar Villareal or Jason Shiell or Lance Freaking Cormier as a starter btw. If that floats your boat cool. Not with me.

Plus we could do better elsewhere.. Ryan Church would be Alot cheaper Money/prospect wise. He can play LF or CF if need be.

By Calvin21

December 8, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

Way way too much to give up. For those 3 guys, we should get at least Crawford. Salty is our top prospect. We trade him only for a superstar because that is what he will become. Why trade a young starter in Davies? I thought we were trying to build aroung pitching. This makes no sense to me.

By Drew

December 8, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

After re-reading the MLB.com article, I’m not so sure the deal would include all 3. One portion says “If the Braves were to include Davies in a deal that also included either Saltalamacchia or Escobar, they would likely head to Spring Training with Lance Cormier targeted to be their fifth starter.” It says either Salty or Escobar, so I’m not sure it would be Davies, Salty, and Escobar. I would also think that the Braves would at least attempt to offer Matt Harrison and Cormier or Villareal instead of Davies. Harrison isn’t far away, and Cormier has at least decent starter potential.

By The Grinch

December 8, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Keep Villareal and Cormier; they’re coming off injuries and they both looked pretty good towards the end of the season. Both are adequate and cheap 5th starters/long relievers. Jason Schiell? Please god don’t let that man near our mound again. I hope last year was his only cup of coffee with us.

By Alan

December 8, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

I’d love to get Baldelli, but I think Davies, Escobar and Salty is way too much to give up. Even if JS has another move or two up his sleeve, which he has to have. Face it, whatever Baldelli’s salary is in ‘07, it’s much higher than Davies’, who’s the only 1 of the 3 young guys who’s likely to be in Atlanta in ‘07. And, as of now, isn’t he (Davies, I mean) slated to be the 5th starter? If he’s traded, who replaces him? Villareal? Cormier? Those guys may not even make the team next spring. Plus, Escobar and Salty are 2 of the Braves’ brightest prospects - Escobar just won the AFL batting title, didn’t he? Meanwhile, we still have Marcus Giles hanging around, with the Dec. 12 deadline looming. Frankly, I would think the Braves could - and should - get more than Baldelli for those 3. Like Carl Crawford, for instance, and I wouldn’t jump for joy over that trade, either. How about Salty, Marcus and a lesser pitcher - like Boyer or Lerew? In any case, it seems to me, dealing with Marcus is much more urgent than getting Baldelli.

By Don

December 8, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

The truth results in some being informed and others being insulted.

For “argument” sake, let’s hear a realistic, I said “realistic”, appraisal of Baldelli with facts (that means something that can be believed) to back it up.

No manure or wishful thinking or cheerleading. Real facts for a cxhange.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this

Navarro isn’t that great of a catching prospect. Trading DePot loved him, but in truth, he’s not much to speak of; Salty would be a huge step up if he only lives up to half his potential.

By Paul Hamilton

December 8, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

The whole fact that he has had some injury issues at a young age scares me. I know iron man Andruw is more of a rarity, but I don’t like that deal. If it was for some stud young starting pitcher then I would say do it. Lets hope the Braves come to their senses on this deal too!!!!!! Can you say STUPID!

The devil rays are run by a bunch of morons. If the Braves actually offered up those three players for one guy and they said no…..HAHA! Y. Escobar just finished torching the Arizona league and won the batting title didnt he???

By The Grinch

December 8, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

Alan, I know Davies has more natural talent than the other two, but did you watch the three of them pitch last year? Cormier and Villareal were at least adequate, if nothing special (especially toward the end). Davies was absolutely horrendous. If we keep him, I got a crisp $20 that says one of the other two will be the 5th starter next spring before Davies. They’re just better at this respective point in their careers. Davies might wind up being a top-rotation guy someday (though I don’t see it), but next spring? No freakin’ way, unless he molts like a rattlesnake in the off-season.

By brian

December 8, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

No way I do this for all 3 unless the Braves know something about Salty or Davies that nobody else does. That is way too much for an injury plagued OF - though I agree he is every bit as talented as above and would be a great addition.

I take it back - the only way I do this trade is if I have a trade to send Andruw Jones (agreed upon extension and all) to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp, LaRoche, and their top pitching prospect Billingsly.

Baldelli Renteria Chipper McCann LaRoche Francoeur Kemp Aybar SP (Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson, James, Billingsly)

But since that Dodgers trade will NEVER happen, I would not trade away our future for Baldelli

By Bryan

December 8, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this

Hey, O’B

If the braves were going to nontender giles and they knew it - doesnt that mean they really saw the O’s trade as LaRoche for Roberts and Penn.

Thats how i read it from the beginning. If your going to scrap a guy - at least get him out of the division (already one team that knows our signs … dadgum Freddie G.)

Whatcha think???

Bryan

By Johnny

December 8, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

You’ve pretty much covered the bases except: Giles is a better offensive player than Baldelli. Better OBP close on SLG and BA. He isn’t as BA dependent as Rocoo is. If Baldelli has one of those seasons where he is hit unlucky then he quickly becomes a .260 hitter with a .295 OBP. We already have one of those in RF. But Francouer at least hits 29 or 30 HR. For Baldelli to do that would be a major increase in performance.

The Braves shouldn’t assume that the 92 game ‘breakout’ last season is a new level of performance. At least I wouldn’t gamble away ANY pitching for to find out. Escobar and Saltalamacchia maybe but not even Davies.

Final comment. The Baltimore deal had to have really been a salary dump. Even though John Schuerholz doesn’t do those…..wink wink nod nod.

By Ryan

December 8, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

Dont give up the future the braves are gonna give up the future of the team and a starting pitcher for one guy????The braves went into the winter meetings needing a set-up man and additional pitching and were gonna throw a pitcher in for baldelli, i agree giles is better in all aspects, besides one, why give that up? Another thing trade giles for someone, two pitching prospects or one really good one, dont just let him go, i hope this trade does not go through

By Haywood Jablome

December 8, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

I’ve got to say, this is one of the most intelligent Braves blogs I’ve read in awhile…alot of good points floating around. Two things, though..if Salty, Escobar or Davies plays anywhere close to his potential…the Braves will be farting through silk come July 31st. Secondly, I don’t care what Rocco’s stats were, he got them playing for the sh*iest franchise in baseball and hence he comes from a culture of losing. Let’s see what Gregor Blanco can do, first.

By Georgetown Kid

December 8, 2006 11:28 PM | Link to this

Just as with the trade for J.D. Drew a few years ago, this deal would help the Braves win NOW in exchange for future returns.

Neither Salty nor Escobar would help the Braves win in ‘07, and I also think that Davies would be more of a hinderance than a help (as he was last year).

And this trade would make our offense significantly better. When this is taken with the additions of Hampton, Wickman, and Soriano, the Braves of 2007 would be much improved over the Braves of 2006.

If the trade is Escobar, Salty, and Davies for Baldelli, then DO THE DEAL.

That being said, we would indeed be paying a high price, so I would not be comfortable paying much more. I would be curious to know what the other suitors are offering.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 8, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

I don’t pretend to know as much about the “prospects” (e.g., Salty, Escobar, et. al) as some others who post here. I don’t really pay very much attention to alphabetical stats (OBP, OPS, ONOMATAPAEIA), much less undertand what they mean. One thing I know is that I played baseball beginning at the age of 6, through the age of 17, and have watched thousands of other games, on TV, and in person (high school, college, minor league and the bigs) in my life. I like to think I know what is good baseball, and what is bad. After having watched the Braves trade away “prospects” over the years to fill what was deemed an “immediate” need, and then see the player we traded away become an all star, potential MVP with another team, I reckon I am as entitled as anyone to express my opinion.

I say hold on to the prospects. I am a huge fan of Brian McCann. “Baby Huey” (no disparagement intended by the nickname - just reminds me of the cartoons I watched 45 years ago as a very young child) is our future at catcher. However, he is one close play at the plate away from oblivion. Witness Ray Fosse (for you youngsters, Pete Rose damned near killed him in an All Star game in the 70’s, and Ray was never the same), the “Erstad vs. Estrada” collision in ‘05 (Johnny wasn’t, and still isn’t the same, though he had a decent year for the Snakes last year - I thought Johnny was our future at catcher), and McCann’s ankle injury this past season that doomed us to Todd Pratt for most of his absence. I say hang on to Salty. if he is as good as they say, he’ll get his shot in the bigs at some point - and his value will likely increase exponentially. If McCann stays healthy, we can keep Pena as a backup, and let Salty go star somehwere else in exchange for somebody else’s star at another position.

Escobar - I know nothing about him. Edgar will be here for two more years, and them be up for bid. Some nut job owner will throw ridiculous amounts of money at him, and he will take it - who can blame him? We need to hang on to our young promising players, so long as we can.

Davies - I still think the Braves ought to refer him to Smoltz’s sports shrink - been talking about this since he came off the DL - he has great stuff, just gets rattled too easily. If he gets traded, I won’t cry foul. But, I think he’s worth keeping - as long as he is “supported”, emotionally. Geez, starting to sound like my wife here.

Lead Off - unless you have a Reyes, Ricky Henderson, etc, I think this spot is highly overrated. Currently, Reyes is the only lead off that scares the crap out of me. Furcal has the potential to be as disruptive, if he ever gets his head on straight - which is doubtful. Furcal is an All Star from the shoulders down, and dead from the neck up. Reyes, on the other hand, reminds me of Lou Brock - a guy that can get on base frequently, and when he does, is such a distraction to the pitcher, catcher and middle infielders, that he makes a difference.

How often does the lead off come up to the plate with nobody on base, or a couple of base or two open ahead of him, so that he can make a difference? Once or twice a game? Give me a guy who can get on base regularly, can drive in some runs with runners on base, and can steal 20 - 30 bases a year, and I’m happy.

Sorry for the long post - I’m not good at expressing myself in a few words.

Grinch - get my email this afternoon? Just want to make sure I have the right address.

By David

December 8, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

I disagree with the assertion that Dioner Navarro isn’t a good player. He was considered the best prospect in the Yankees organization when that trade went down where the Dodgers wound up with him. His OBP in LA was around .360. His problem was that he had the audacity to be a green 22-year-old. If we double his numbers to get him to 520 ABs, he winds up with 12 homers and 56 RBIs despite having to switch leagues in the middle of his season. He’s going to be fine. I see no reason for the D-Rays to believe they need another catching prospect.

By Alan

December 8, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you’re right. Davies was awful last year, but he’s still a kid - 22 or so, right? I agree that, if the season started today, either Oscar or Lance (aren’t they porn stars in the off-season?) would be the 5th starter - but I still say Davies is a future star. Maybe he’ll be a star in Tampa rather than Atlanta, but he’ll be a star nonetheless IMO. As will Escobar and Salty. That’s 3 future stars for 1 future star — way too much. And it’s not providing salary relief. Maybe if the Braves get Baldelli, they’ll turn around and trade Andruw and Rocco will play CF. And maybe they’ll keep Giles. It still bothers me that they might give up 3 of their very best prospects in 1 deal. As many have said, that would be so unlike the way JS normally operates. Just look at last winter: 1 big prospect (Marte) for a premium player (Renteria). That was a great trade. 3 for 1 would be foolish. And, again, I just can’t see trading Davies for anyone without a more viable replacement in the rotation than a “porn star.”

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 8, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

Short follow up post - I don’t think the Braves should give up 2 monr league prospects, plus Davies, for Baldelli. A straight up swap, one prospect for Baldelli, wouldn’t bother me. But two hot prospects, plus a pitcher who is probably a year or two from being a star? No thanks.

By akirell

December 8, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, I wish you were the Braves’ GM.

By dfree

December 8, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

why not the same package for carl crawford?

By billy g

December 8, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

Davies can not be a part of this deal. Our starting rotation can not be relied upon.

Smoltz’s age puts him in the “day to day” category. He is a fighter and a man of true grit, but father time takes his toll on everyone. It would be great to see him last another two seasons, but the odds are not on his side.

Hampton is the most overpaid player in MLB. He may be a talented lefty, but he simply has not been there for us. Expecting him to last an entire season is not wise.

Hudson was a disappointment last year. Injuries limitted him. I expect much better from him this season, but is he a lock for an 18-game season?

That leaves us with James and Davies. James is untouchable. Davies had to contend with a groin injury. Before his mishap, he looked really good. Can we really afford to let him go?

Pitching is the key to winning. JS has repeated that mantra all offseason. Why in the world would he let Ramirez and Davies go?

By Drew

December 8, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

Can you name me a few of these guys who have become Allstars and potential MVPs? All I can think of is Jason Schmidt and Jermaine Dye. For the most part, I think the prospect/young player trades turn out pretty well. For example: Jason Marquis, Bruce Chen, Odalis Perez, Damian Moss

By futurebravesgm2413

December 8, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this

does anyone else think that a 3 some of Davies, Escobar, and Salty could bring Crawford?

By tmoney in ben hill

December 8, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

CARL FREAKIN CRAWFORD!! look at the dudes stats…he has improved every year. its obvious they are tryin to dump baldelli b4 he gets hurt again. dont fall for it. especially not for # top youngsters…hell NO!!!

By Drew

December 8, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

I’m not going to say I hate this deal, but I think that if this deal is made, it shows 1 of 2 things: a) There is another deal coming that will involve us getting a starter or b)Shuerholtz wasn’t really sure of his plan going into the offseason I am not hating on him, he was just put in a difficult situation. I say this because he stated at the winter meetings that he wanted to build up pitching, as that was last season’s weakness. By trading Ramirez and Davies, he would have gone completely against that, and ultimately weakened the rotation.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 8, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

There are those who know that I have a tendency to hit the wrong button, especially late in the evenings … I’ll admit to doing that every once in a while … but, It’t worse when you’re multitasking and somebody slips in a new Blog!

Refresh, refresh, refresh … and nothing … well I posted this on the other Blog and doggoned if I’m gonna be denied …

andruw’s current swing is an injury waiting to happen. if he continues to swing like that and falls back on his ankles he better switch to high-top sneakers (know what high-top sneakers are?) like u.s. keds. oh, the humanity! no one knows what u.s. keds are anymore! andruw has so much power and is such a gifted athlete - if he could again control his swing he would probably hit more homeruns - though it is hard to imagine they would go so far. let’s hope andruw can avoid injury with this new habit (bad habit as far as this journalist is concerned). remember when he was batting almost exactly like pujols? where did that go?

No, I didn’t write it … but I wish I had! The Kid from Cordele has a way with words, plain and simple!

I’ve got to run … help my son finish the horseracing projection system … hopefully scheduled for completion in my lifetime!

Welcome Back MBATL!! … to the oat eating tearyeyed one, you’re a wordsmithe of the first order … without the e, of course, of course … and Grinch, Rocky Lane isn’t really dead … you can see him on Encore Westerns most anytime.

Let me beat the drum a bit for “Beat The Drum”, a movie about AIDS in Africa … good music, good story about a little boy … and best of all, it’s dedicated to the memory of the most gracious of ladies, a big Braves fan and my best friend! It’s on Showtime several times during December … sometimes in HD … also available on Comcast Showtime ON Demand during December.

With the right management, coaching, and a good psychologist or three … I think that a team could win it all with a player payroll of less than that of the Marlins … I really do.

That said, give JS credit … even with the budget constraints, unexpected misfortune would fall heavily upon us for the Braves not to have a good run at … and hopefully in … the playoffs in 2007.

Later …

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

People say Davies was horrible last year…well so was Glavine, Maddax, and prob several other great pitchers. Rember that before you say a pitcher is garbage.

By David

December 8, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

Drew is right. The list of guys we dealt who never developed is much, much longer than the ones who did. Out of those, Schmidt is the only one who has been consistently great elsewhere and he was never going to fit in with the Braves staff at the time. He was a fun-loving kid on a staff full of buttoned-up professionals.

I presume the MVP comment is about Jermaine Dye, but that’s a silly claim. He hit .236 and .234 the two seasons after we dealt him. He matured in 99 only to almost play his way out of baseball in 02-03. Anybody in baseball could have had him for 2005. Trying to put that on JS is absurd.

By Lee

December 8, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

I would love to have Baldelli but the price is too much.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this

I thought he was from uganda

By N8

December 9, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

Billy

By saying “Davies is the next Jason Schmidt on our team”, do you mean:

A) A superstar pitcher.

or

B) A pitcher who toils in our organization with mediocre results, gets traded, takes a turn for the better, then gets traded AGAIN and finally lives up to potential, some 6 years AFTER he was called up for the first time?

I’m really not being a smart a$$, I’m just saying that back then, sure, we coulda had more patience with him. We had 3 HOF pitchers in our rotation. But then again, I think THAT is what held him back. Trying to keep up with those guys. I remember Glavine complimenting Millwood on how he wasn’t intimidated by being part of that staff “like some other guys in the past”.

I mean. Davies is only what, 22 (or is he 23 now?). He MAY end up being GREAT. But then again, maybe not.

Rocco sounds like a GREAT fit immediately, so long as we don’t mortgage the future (possibly guys that DON’T have a future in Atlanta anyhow), for a guy that has had injury issues. Salty sounds like he’ll be the real deal. But unfortunately he plays at a position that we don’t need any help in the near future with McCann on board. As far as Escobar, DOB is right. We’ve got Renteria at a rate that is WAAAAAY below market value for a gold glove winner, a WS hero, a good guy and probably a better number 2 (there’s that Austin Powers thing again! LOL!) hitter. Not to mention, from everything DOB has said, and what I’ve read about this Elvis Andrus kid, by the time Renteria’s time is up in Atlanta, he should (you’d think) be ready to take over.

Salty, Escobar and Davies for Baldali?

JS, Make the move……NOW!!!! Before I go to bed. LOL!

By Ryan

December 9, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

Trade is never gonna happen braves wont make the move, or someone else will get the guy, give them a pitcher who is better now rather then later, but the rays need guys later, they arent going to win now anyhow

By Tyler

December 9, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

Most likely not Crawford because he is a legitimate outstanding player with basically no flaws to his game. Baldelli has had injury problems and is not as complete as Crawford, so I think he is the best we could get in this deal.

By Jordan

December 9, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

NO go on this one. Rocco is too injury prone. Giving up 3 of our best prospects for someone who is only marginally better than our current options (diaz, langy, thorman, et al) just doesn’t feel right.

By David

December 9, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this

Davies had an ERA of 8.38 and, even scarier, a WHIP of 1.94…and it was his second season. Once the league scouting report got out on him, the tide turned quickly and painfully (for him as well as Braves fans). I know he’s a local kid who was hugely hyped coming up, but let’s keep in mind who he has been as a major league pitcher instead of discarding it out of hand. Many, many more guys who start off like this wash out than succeed.

By DCarp23

December 9, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this

TennesseePaul-loved your “Baldy” line.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 9, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

Drew:

some old history - Brooks Jacoby for Len Barker (pre-JS days). More recently, Zack Minor, the kid who closed for the Cards in the WS (can’t remember his name right now), Justice for Kenny lofton… I’m not a walking encyclopedia of the moves, but I know what I thought when the trades were made, or a year or two later when I saw what the player we let go was doing for another team.

The point here is that if you look back over the last 16 years, at the outset of our success, most of our best players have been homegrown through the minor league system. Glavine, Avery, Smoltz (yes, I know he started with Detroit - but we got him in a trade for Doyle Alexander, late season, when Smoltz was 19 years old - an absolute steal), Chipper, Andruw, and the latest crop, who I don’t need to name further.

Look at the Twins for an example. A “small market team” who manages to compete every year with a small payroll, through a very modest payroll. They utilize their players as long as they can afford them, let them go for big bucks in the FA market, and then reload with minor league stars.

By the way - you think the Marquis trade worked out well? We got J.D. Screw for one year in that deal, and then he took off for the money with the Bums. Not saying Jason was the man, but, he has been a decent pitcher. Who did we get in return for Chen, Perez and Moss?

By JCC 19

December 9, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

I’d do it primarily because Salty is probably going to be stuck behind McCann for a very long time and Escobar is expendible because of the Braves’ depth at that spot. However one thing that concerns me (a lot) is that Baldelli seems to be injury prone, much like J.D. Drew. The biggest question is who will be hurt less— Baldelli or Davies?

By Sean

December 9, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

i too would love to have Baldelli, but i just cant justify throwing in Davies unless the braves have some other deal working to bring in starting pitching, i just dont think you can feel good with Cormier as your top option for your number 5 pitcher

i dont think there is anyway that the deal is done as this reported 3 for 1

By Chop Chop

December 9, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this

No way in hell I would do this deal. Baldelli (as Jordan pointed out) is too injury-prone and the Braves would be giving up way too much for a guy who is young and has that sort of injury history. If Salty is just trade bait as a catcher, use him to help get a top starting pitcher. Pitching is what matters most.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this

Tom Glavine last year: 15-7, 3.82 ERA, 1.33 WHIP Terrible? Greg Maddux last year: 15-14, 4.22 ERA, 1.22 WHIP Terrible? If he was on a good team, he wouldn’t have near that many losses and probably more wins.

Billy that statement makes no sense

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 9, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this

Billy, use your military intelligence … he was, … why do you think he uses an assumed name? … he’s hiding out … Cordele is a code.

By David

December 9, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this

N8 has touched on the key here. JS has made a living off of building up prospects then dealing them at maximum value. When is Escobar going to have more value than at this moment? He just lead a respected league in hitting. If we are not convinced Davies is going to get better (and I have no idea how they feel on the subject), dealing him and Escobar right now for an established major league talent who is only 25…well, that looks like it falls somewhere in the range of JD Drew to Fred McGriff.

While I can’t speak as to what Melvin Nieves or Donnie Elliot is doing these days (who knew that Esteban Yan would be the best guy we gave up in that deal?), I do know that I’ll play those odds if it only costs us two guys. Three, that’s where I draw the line. Also, knowing what I know of Elvis Andrus, Prado and even Tony Pena, I worry less about losing Escobar than I do Salty.

Having said all of that, I reiterate my confusion over why Escobar was a much better player in the winter league than Prado yet he’s deemed unready for the majors while we sound like we are ready to name Prado a starter.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this

C. A pitcher in a couple of years that will be very good not great.

I been raised on Braves baseball so my opinion is that young picthing is better than young hitting…I still say pull the trigger if our scouts think Badelli is a monster…but if there is any doubt….we can’t do this deal.

Like in one of my first post…I said the word gamble. I’m not talent evaluator but….

You dont gamble with two top tier prospects and a potential top of the rotation pitcher. So if we did a deal of that nature I would imagine our scouts think this Badelli is a real keeper.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 9, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

Drew, I don’t think you and Billy are on the same page … different planes or points of reference perhaps …

By N8

December 9, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this

I agree with the poster (forgot who it was), that said that JS has a pretty darn good track record of trading away guys that don’t neccesarily succeed right away (if ever). Here’s the guys I could come up with that dispute this theory:

Jermaine Dye: RIDICULOUSLY injury prone. It’s bad enough that Chipper in his 30’s can’t stay healthy, but to have always been waiting for a 20-something to get (and stay) healthy would’ve been frustrating, IMO.

Jason Schmidt: See my above post. He took FOREVER to become the pitcher he is today. Not to mention we got 2 1/3 REALLY good seasons out of Denny Neagle, then got Bret Boone for Denny Neagle, then got Reggie Sanders, Wally Joyner and Veras for Boone and Klesko, with opened the door for Giles to make the team when Veras was cut. Pretty good return on that trade. Throw in the fact that Ron Wright ammounted to NOTHING.

Adam Wainwright: Looks like Jockety got the best of JS on that one. But, without JD Drew, that season would’ve been LOST. So if Wainwright ends up being as good as Smoltz, that trade will be looked upon the same way Doyle/Smoltz is years later. A trade that helped us IMMEDIATELY but set the Cardinals up with a future mainstay. We’ll see.

Odalis Perez: We got 2 good years out of Shef. Where is Perez now?

Ande Marte: Verdict won’t be in on that for YEARS, but, Renteria is doing just fine as far as I can see and should continue to do so.

What am I getting at with all of this? Well, if JS trades all of the mentioned prospeces (I still consider Davies a prospect) for Rocco. Odds are that at least ONE of the three, if not two will not ammount to much of anything, or if they do. Baldali will be here for years of production and it won’t really matter if the other guys do anything great or not. The way I see it. If the Braves (JS) REALLY sees those guys as our future, he won’t get rid of them, unless he sees Baldali being a BIGGER part of our future.

ie: I TRUST JS TO DO THE RIGHT THING. Just so long as Dan Kolb isn’t involved. :)

By David

December 9, 2006 12:24 AM | Link to this

“By the way - you think the Marquis trade worked out well? We got J.D. Screw for one year in that deal”

I do believe that deal worked out because while I detest Drew, he had his best year as a major league ballplayer when he wore a Braves uniform. He had career highs in hits, homers, games played, and slugging. We knew there was a chance he would walk, but there is not the same concern with Baldelli since he is under contract for a long time to come. And the player you are thinking about from the Cards is Adam Wainwright. Since Marquis was a huge disappointment in St. Louis, that deal only looks like less than a steal for us now because Wainwright blossomed two years after the fact. Even with Drew walking after a year, we got what we needed out of it.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this

I meant their 1st year….does that clear it up a little

By David

December 9, 2006 12:29 AM | Link to this

Correction: Drew’s career high was in OBP, not slugging. He had a career high in walks (118) that factored in huge there. Say what you will about Drew, but never forget that he was 6th in the MVP voting for us in 2004.

By N8

December 9, 2006 12:30 AM | Link to this

I hear you Billy. Even with JS’s “track record” that I refered to in my last post. Times have changed in Bravo company circa 2006/2007. The difference between this proposed trade is that we are trading prospects for basically another “prospect” of sorts. A young guy with some injury history and a LOT of upside. In the past, we traded guys that we HYPED as having a lot of UPSIDE (Nieves, Micah Bowie, Bruce Chen, Dan Meyer, Charles Thomas, etc….) for PROVEN warriors, most with post season experience, (Sheffield, McGriff, Neagle, Grissom, Renteria etc…), when we had the FIANANCES to take on their BIG contracts and or sign them to extensions. We don’t have that luxury anymore, JS is basically not in the driver’s seat anymore, “raping” the poor of their big contracts in the midst of fire sales (San Diego, Pittsburg, Montreal). He’s force to gamble (as you put it nicely) that he can get equal value in an area we need (LF/leadoff), by trading VALUE from a position of strength in our organization (Catcher, SS).

I think we’re on the same page here. On the surface, just for the sake of “making a move” to improve our club this year, I LIKE THE TRADE. But given a few days (or seasons LOL!) to absorb it, I may change my mind.

By Georgetown Kid

December 9, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em Braves,

To answer your question, for Perez (plus Brian Jordan) we got Gary Sheffield. For Damion Moss (plus Charles Taylor, at least I think that was his name) we got Tim Hudson. And for Bruce Chen, we got a good starter from the Phillies for the second half of the season, but I can’t remember his name.

In this trade, we would be dealing future potential for proven ability.

This trade would make the Braves significantly better in 2007 than they were in 2006.

And keep in mind, the Mets were head and shoulders better than we were last year. If we want to overtake them, and if we want to have a real shot at the WS next season, we will have to be aggressive, which means we might have to part with several valuable future investments (ie Salty, Escobar, and Davies) for immediate returns.

If we are unwilling to take a risk, and if we settle for middle relievers as our only upgrades this offseason, we’ll be good enough to compete for the Wild Card, but we would not be a championship callibre team.

So it simply comes down to: what are our true goals for next year?

PS: and by the way, if I got the details wrong on those trades, I apologize

By MS

December 9, 2006 12:38 AM | Link to this

I don’t think you make that trade giving up 3 of your best prospects. While I like Baldelli and think he would be a perfect fit here (leadoff and play LF this year, great CF replacement should AJ leave in 08), I’m very nervous about his inability to take a walk and his injury history (he finally overcomes the ACL and the Tommy-John surgery and then he gets bad hammies?? Let me tell you, as someone with bad hamstrings, those don’t just go away, especially when you’re roaming the OF 150 games a year.)

I would think that combination of 2 STUD prospects and 1 good young cheap arm would net you something a whole lot better than Rocco Baldelli. To me that looks like a package that would bring in an established All-star caliber bat or starting pitcher not a young unproven guy with a horrid injury history but big upside.

Now I’m not saying we should try to trade for Manny Ramirez or someone like that. What I am saying is that we could get something better than Rocco for those 3, so we’d be wasting our prospects if we sent them all to TB. I’m all for getting Rocco, but not at that price.

(Not to mention we’re going to be right back where we were last year, where halfway through the year, we cant find anybody to start. Then all the ragtags we throw out there can only go 4 or 5 innings an outing and we kill the bullpen routinely)

Maybe 2 of them for Rocco and use the other in a package to get a decent SP for the back of the rotation?

By Jared

December 9, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

As long as John Schuerholz doesn’t do anything really stupid, like trade Chuck James, then I don’t care one way or another if a trade for Baldelli goes through.

By N8

December 9, 2006 12:40 AM | Link to this

Billy, in all fairness to ALL involved, Marquis would’ve NEVER succeeded in Atlanta. The word “on the street” that I remember is that Marquis and LEO didn’t see eye to eye and the butted heads on more than one occasion. Marquis needed the change of scenery, he wasn’t EVER gonna get out of Leo’s doghouse. Whether that is correct (or right or wrong) is up to debate, but MLB History is LOADED with stories of guys changing addresses and succeeding or failing due to the circumstances that changed for them. For every SUCCESS story of pitchers thriving under Leo (Jaret Wright, Burkett, Chris Hammond) there are stories of guys that couldn’t get it done while working with Leo (Schmidt, Marquis, Odalis, and if you read between the lines…Hudson).

Yeah, Marquis had a good year that first year. And he had a LOT of wins the last couple of year. But he had a huge ERA to go with it. I know that LaRussa let him take one for the team TWICE last year, which ballooned his EAR, but still….

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this

I think that Baltimore deal was a feint. JS had just screwed the Pirates and the Mariners back-to-back and didn’t want to scare away any more potential suitors. That was to show them he’s falliable, like a great Texas hold ‘em player folding a K-J suited right after he won with a 7-2 off-suit; just keepin’ everyone off balance.

By Georgetown Kid

December 9, 2006 12:42 AM | Link to this

‘Nagy’ was the pitcher’s name that we got from the Phillies in exchange for Bruce Chen. He was a half-season rental, but did more to help us than Chen would have over that stretch.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 9, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

So many here are so unrealistic about what a team is willing to give, or give up,- in a trade. It’s nice to fantasize about what we may get in return for what we may give. Would I, were I GM (which I am not - I’m certainly not a competent talent evaluator - I think JS & BC are, having been in baseball FOR THIER ENTIRE LIVES- give up several prospects for Jose Reyes, David Wright, Canoe, Aramis Ramirez, Luis Pujols, Ryan Howard, et. al.? Damned straight I would - but, the problem here is that THEY WILL NOT LET THESE PLAYERS GO IN A TRADE!!!! For God’s sakes folks, be realistic here - no team is going to let their marquee players go if they can help it - we will face that issue with ‘Druw next year. If we can afford him, great, we all want to see him be a Brave for his entire career. If he leaves, because some whacko owner wants to pay him % mil mor that we can afford, within our budget, what can we do?

By David

December 9, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

Just thinking it over for a moment, I can’t help but be impressed by JS’ decision making when it comes to pitchers to come versus trade. I wonder what Terrell “Hiawatha” Wade, Juan Bong, Trey Hodges, Dan Meyer, and Tim Spooneybarger are doing these days. All of them but Wade were hugely hyped pitchers we had developed just in the 2000s who vanished into oblivion as soon as they stopped being Braves. Wade is just there because he had such a great nickname.

I find it fascinating how many Braves fans only remember the times when JS allowed a great pitcher to get away. Roman Colon had an ERA of 4.89 last year. Why don’t we mention him instead of Wainwright? And Capellan’s 4.40 with Milwaukee is not exactly the stuff of myth and legend either. Zach Miner had a 4.84. These are all guys we have ditched recently who did nothing out of the ordinary for their next team.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 12:43 AM | Link to this

Braves trade Ron Wright and Schmidt for Denny Neagle. Don’t think that turned out too bad, as Neagle had several good years for us.

Traded Jermaine Dye and Jamie Walker to KC for Keith Lockhart and Michael Tucker who both had several good years.

Trade Joey Nation, Jose Quevedo, and a young top prospect named Micah Bowie to Cubs for Jose Hernandez and Terry Mulholland. Nothing became of those prospects and Hernandez and Mullholland had good years.

Trade Bruce Chen and Jimmy Osting to Phillies for Andy Ashby. Great year or two from Ashby, nothing thus far out of Chen.

Traded Odalis Perez, Brian Jordan, and Andrew Brown to Dodgers for Gary Sheffield. That one definitely worked out well as Sheff was great for a couple years and nothing became of Odalis.

Damian Moss and Merkin Vasquez to Giants for Russ Ortiz. Ortiz was a stud for us for 2 years before fading away in free agency.

Traded Adam Wainwright, Jason Marquis, and Ray King to Cardinals for JD Drew and Eli Marrero- probably the worst of all of these, though Drew and Marrero both had very good seasons.

Traded then top prospect Andy Pratt for Juan Cruz. Pratt amounted to nothing, while Cruz had a good season then was traded to get Hudson.

Traded prospects Jung Bong and Bubba Nelson for Chris Reitsma. With the exception of last season, Reitsma has been very serviceable while the 2 prospects did nothing.

Jose Capellan to Brewers for Dan Kolb. Neither worked out.

Top pitching prospect Dan Meyer, good young outfielder Charles Thomas, and Juan Cruz for Tim Hudson. Meyer and Thomas have been terrible and Cruz has been traded again. Not bad for Hudson.

Nick Green for Jorge Sosa. I’d say still a pretty good deal.

Roman Colon and Zach Miner to Tigers for Farnsworth. Miner had some decent starts last year but struggled in the 2nd half, while Colon has been a bust. Farnsworth was fantastic while he was here, but the Yankees offered him rediculous money, and he left. Still not too bad a deal.

Overall, JS has known what he was doing. Trust him people. There are maybe 2 deals on this list that in hindsight we might take back. Relax, Shuerholtz knows what he is doing.

By N8

December 9, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this

Damion Moss, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas brought us Hudson. Bruce Chen brought us Andy Ashby.

By N8

December 9, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this

Damion Moss, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas brought us Hudson. Bruce Chen brought us Andy Ashby.

By David

December 9, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

Bruce Chen was traded for Andy Ashby, who won 8 games for us in 15 starts down the stretch that season.

By akirell

December 9, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

Yeah, I agree with a few comments that have said that we should definitely get Baldelli if we can, but should avoid getting rid of both Escobar AND Salty. I think we could probably get a much better player than Rocco for those two…or I could be overestimating the two prospects. I donno.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

I agree almost to a tee with stupid

\/\/\/\/

By MS

December 9, 2006 12:38 AM

By Drew

December 9, 2006 12:51 AM | Link to this

Man, I guess I took too long to make that list. Most of the trades had already been posted. Oh well, a couple of them were wrong.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 9, 2006 12:54 AM | Link to this

Damion Moss was traded to the Giants in the deal to get Russ Ortiz

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

g’night blog…great discussion tonight….I can tell you one thing…I think Bravesland is a little aprehensive about the potential in this deal…wheather you for it or against it….its makes you think.

After thinking about it and initally stating we should do this deal I am now under the impression we should shop that package around, as I think we can get more than Badelli. (wow what a run on sentence huh?) If the deal is made then Im not gonna critize because its a tough one that does make us better for the moment.

Last point…if we did offer those three players and they (D-Rays) declined we should point that GM towards the direction of the Seattle fans so they know they dont in fact have the worst GM in baseball.

By Ryan

December 9, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

DO NOT TRADE CHUCK JAMES too good too young, hes the future of the braves pitching, could very well be the next glavine/maddux/smoltz!!!!!!!!!

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this

….cant help my self…the banter has been misdirected….we all are now taking a trip down memory lane. LOL

G’night

By N8

December 9, 2006 01:00 AM | Link to this

thanks, drew.

I forgot that Moss went to SF for Ortiz, and that it was Juan Cruz in the Hudson deal.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this

Scalp, I sent you a reply about 8 or 9, I think. Did you not get it?

By akirell

December 9, 2006 01:02 AM | Link to this

anyone else worried about baldelli’s injury concerns?

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 01:03 AM | Link to this

Chuck James ain’t goin’ anywhere, unless it’s for poo-holes. :-)

By Georgetown Kid

December 9, 2006 01:03 AM | Link to this

Ashby, not Nagy.

My bad.

What I remember most about him was that he resembled “the Noid” from the old Dominoes commercials.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this

Chuck James is going nowhere.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 9, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

I echo Jared’s comment. I am not a baseball GM. I don’t pretend to know the market. I am not the manager of a baseball team. I am not Robert, wno knows everything that Bobby Cox does not. I haven’t juggled lineups, I have not swung trades, and I have not ever, ever, dealt with an $80 million budget for a bunch of guys who work 8 months in a year. What I know is that I am a fan. Just a guy who enjoys the game, enjoys the nuances of each game, and who gets upset at failures of players on any given night, or is ecstatic over their successes.

I marvel at those here who rail against JS for his trades, non-trades, who we need to keep, or who we need to dump. You are what?? Accountants? Air Conditioning/Heating repairmen? Truck drivers? Warehousemen? Convenience store clerks? Stock brokers? Lawyers? Doctors?

What in the hell makes you more qualified than John Schuerholz, or Bobby Cox, to evaluate baseball talent, with the advice and input of numerouse scouts, etc? Get off of your high horse, let those how know what they are doing, do what they are being paid good money to do, and be fans, instead of inconsolablw critics.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 01:09 AM | Link to this

AVOID THE NOID!

By flbravesgirl

December 9, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this

Checking in before the computer freaks out again…

Considering Baldelli’s history of being injury-prone, I think 3 guys is too much to give up. I’m OK with trading Saltalamacchia (he deserves to get his full name on here at least once) because I am, as you all well know, convinced that Brian McCann is the greatest thing since sliced bread. ;-) Yes, I’m hopelessly biased.

Don’t know enough about Escobar to give an opinion yet.

As frustrating as Davies was, I’m nervous about trades involving pitchers where we don’t get any pitching in return.

Maybe if we got someone in addition to Rocco, it would be easier to give up 3 guys.

Grinch & jimmy, Red Velvet Cake and pies will wait for Christmas Day. I started by making my famous fudge (which has a secret ingredient which would make it a favorite of journalists, jimmy).

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 9, 2006 01:19 AM | Link to this

Grinch - unless you were hawking Viagra, or were posing as some skank wanting to meet, it didn’t come through under your email. Be sure to put “Braves Blog” in the subject line so I will know it is not a spam (I get mondo spam). Try to resend from your “Sent” folder.

By RYAN

December 9, 2006 01:19 AM | Link to this

scalp em Braves YOU ARE AN IDIOT being a fan gives us the right to question what the owners an GM’s do all the time. that is why they publish what trades they make, moves they do and dont do. they dont have to tell us anything, it is a privately owned team, no one has the right to know what JS does, they tell us for us to react and give opinions on it, and i will as long as i can, talk about what the braves do, whether you like it or not

By RYAN

December 9, 2006 01:21 AM | Link to this

oh and one more point scalp em, it doesnt mean we are more qualified then JS or COX, we just want to give our opinion bad or good, we are allowed to do it, so if thats all your on here to say, leave and i dont want to hear any comments about the team again, since according to yourself your not qualified. plus isnt it past your bedtime?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 9, 2006 01:24 AM | Link to this

I’m not that worried about Baldelli’s injury concerns. How many of those injuries could have been cause by that poor excuse for a field at Tropicana. My concern is more giving up Escobar. But, if you’re the Braves you have to take the risk. Look, Baldelli is dirt cheap. If he continues to develop like he has, he will be a steal. People, look long range. Gary Matthews Jr. signed a deal for 5 years at $50 mil. In three years Matthews Jr. will be 35 and likely on the bench making $10 mil a year. Baldelli will be 28 and making $6 mil while producing three times the stats Matthews Jr. will be. Heck, look at it this way. Andruw will be 33 but because of his knees could be on his way to becoming a DH. It could happen. Andruw will be making at least $18 mil. Baldelli will be making $6 mil. Yes, he has been injured but he is worth the risk. Don’t forget Chipper had the same “injury” tag applied to him in 1993 and he only was one of the best hitters in the game for the next nine years injury free. I know he has been injured often the last two years. My point being you can’t be sure if Baldelli is injury proned or its just been bad luck.

I still want to know if anyone has heard anything on Giles. It just seems very weird to me that nobody has said anything. Most notably Giles.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this

Scalp, I’ll tell you exactly what makes me qualified to micro-analyze every single thing anyone in this organization does. I’m The GRINCH, %$#@-%$#@! Other than that, I’m about as qualified to do that as I am to rebuild a transmission or install a new circuit-breaker in a skyscraper. I don’t know squat, but I like to run it up the pole and see who salutes. :-) I only played one year of baseball (age 12-13), but I’ve watched a bunch. That’s good enough, ain’t it? I should know at least as much as JS from that one season. Hell, I hit .374. That’s Tony Gwynn territory. Now, as for football…

By RYAN

December 9, 2006 01:36 AM | Link to this

scalp em’ braves? no answer? cant think of anything smart to say? good leave, now for braves fans, is there any news on the giles situation and i think the trade rumors on baldelli are over for tonight, as im sure JS is home in bed like normal residents and waiting to leave this trade for tuesday

By Rosalyn

December 9, 2006 01:46 AM | Link to this

I just wundah if that theyah little boyah jimmah smith is goin to be able to mow ourwah yawd agin next yeawh. Evah since he stawted ah callun hisself ah junnelist he ain’t been wuth ah tinkah’s damn. Why that theyah little jimmah smith barely made it thru elementrah skool, so how in tha free wuhrld could he evah be ah junnelist? Big Jimmah tried to teach that theyah little jimmah smith sum of tha wurds outtah his new book about apartheid and othah various wurds, but that theyah little jimmah just couldent quite grasp tha consept. He just kept ah goin on about pie and nastah toes. Big Jimmah said if we cant get that theyah little jimmah to mow this yeawh then we just might be foced inta gettun that theyah DOB’s goat!

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:56 AM | Link to this

David (and I’m just picking yours because your name’s David, and to illustrate a point), you wrote: “As has been pointed out on the prior blog, the D-Rays acquired a top catching prospect from the Dodgers at the deadline last year. I’m not seeing Salty as being a huge asset in any discussions with them unless it evolves into a three team deal.”

AND HERE’S MY POINT: Too many outsider observers (fans, media, etc) view these things from that perspective, while clubs, especially clubs with fiscal constraints, don’t. They view it along the lines of, if you get another club’s top two prospects, regardless of whether you already have a catcher or a shortstop prospect or whatever, you can always trade that asset down the line to fill a need. You want to acquire talent, like the Braves have in the past with pitchers, then you can afford to deal from a position of strength to fill other needs.

Doesn’t matter if a team has two top catching prospects; that’s not a BAD thing. That’s a good thing. Then the team can afford to trade one of them a year from now when one or both is ready for the majors and another team comes calling and has a piece that the D-Rays (or whoever) needs.

It’s why the Braves haven’t moved Salty to another position _ they know he has the most value as a switch-hitting slugging catcher, rather than moving him to, say, first base, where he’s one of many slugging first baseman. Not many switch-hitting slugging catchers, so if he can keep developing defensively (and presumably get back to slugging, like he did before the first half last season), then he’ll be a huge asset for the Braves in a trade.

Anyway … hey, I can see both sides of argument on whether to trade for Baldelli if it takes this much to get him. But one thing a lot of you are failing to comprehend is just how remarkably well he’d fit into the Braves’ payroll _ only $750,000 in 2007, and then only 2.25 mill or about $4 mill (depending whether he gets 600 PAs next season) in 2008.

The injuries were fluke things, the ACL in an off-the-field thing, if I’m not mistaken, and he still has tremendous speed, and should regain all of it if he hasn’t already. He’s a 30-30 potential guy, for sure, with good average and great speed. And again, he’s the rare commodity, an experienced guy with a lot of talent who’s affordable _ like I said, $26 mill MAX over the next five years if both options are picked up and he hits his incentive triggers.

Think about that, just over $5 mill per year for a guy who could become a really good player, perhaps a 30-30 player, maybe more.

Hey, let’s just say I’d do this one _ Salty, Escobar, perhaps Davies _ before I’d do LaRoche/Giles for B. Roberts/Penn, and the Braves were ready to do the latter. But maybe that’s just me. Maybe the Braves aren’t willing to trade all three guys. We’ll see how it works out.

By Larry

December 9, 2006 01:58 AM | Link to this

Hi y’all, I’m new to the blog and let me say that I really enjoy Mr.O’Brien’s work (& music chioces!) and the banter that takes place throughout the blog. I’m just a little curious as to why someone appears to be posting as all kinds of different names and having conversations w/ themselves like jimmy smith, carolina lady, and rosalyn. Funny, but a bit odd at the same time. Keep it up Braves fans!

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:01 AM | Link to this

Kinley, haven’t checked down further to see if anyone pointed this out, but you wrote: “I’m sure you guys remember that gem he threw in his first ML start @ Yankee Stadium.”

Actually, it was Fenway Park. I was there. Cold, raw night, and he was pretty awesome.

No biggie on the error. I said yesterday that the Braves-Astros marathon (the one that Farnsworth lost, not LaRoche, as some would have you believe), was a Game 7, when it was of course a Game 4).

By kluttz13

December 9, 2006 02:05 AM | Link to this

There is NO WAY I’d give up Salty (great hitter in a hitting starved position) & Esco (won the batting title in the AFL) + a pitcher for Baldelli. I wouldn’t even consider it for a minute because he just isn’t worth three players.

Both Salty and Esco have the ability to supplant any loss of Giles and LaRoche, or McCann if by some unfortunate fate he gets injured.

It’s amazing how a great majority of people are so enamored by JS. Does anyone remember what he did to Kansas City before leaving? He ravaged the farm system to try and build one more winner. Does this scenario sound familiar? When JS puts together a team that is capable of winning more than just another Divisional Title (i.e. World Series), without destroying our farm system, I might change my tune. For every great deal he’s made, he’s made at least two - three more bad deals.

By Drummerdad

December 9, 2006 02:07 AM | Link to this

TennPaul, I think Bobby would call him “RockyBaby”.
I could live with the trade for Baldelli except the Davies factor. Makes me nervous. Would Salty and Giles make sense? Grinch, In light of your 10:24 p.m. post, tell us how you really feel.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:09 AM | Link to this

JJS with the best reporting of the night, and best news: “When asked his favorite stadium song: “Johnny Cash’s “Ring of Fire.” I like when they throw that on there at the stadium.” — Devil Rays outfielder Rocco Baldelli

JJS, I knew there must have been something beneath the surface that I liked about this guy. A young man who’s a fan of the Man in Black. Now that’s a player.

Hey, folks, who knows if it’d take all three? Nobody does. I do know the Braves are talking about Salty AND Escobar with them. But maybe they could do it with one or the other if they combine with Davies.

But I’ve got a feeling if the deal gets done, they’ll have to give up at least two of those three, and I don’t think Salty and Davies or Escobar and Davies would get it done.

We’ll see. Probably going to take until after Tuesday, because I’m told a couple of the teams the D-Rays are talking to want to see what becomes available after non-tender date, etc.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 02:17 AM | Link to this

Scalp, I sent it Re:Braves Blog. Huh. It was a long-a* one, too; hope it didn’t just dissapear into nowhere.

FBG, a little bird tells me you have a crush on Baby Huey…admit it. I bet you’re blushing right now. I am perfectly content to wait on my red velvet cake ‘till the appropriate time, but I must admit I’m more than a bit intrigued by what your secret ingredient might be that would make Jimmy Smith happy. Fudge made with toes? TOES? Oh, the humanity!

By Rosalyn

December 9, 2006 02:17 AM | Link to this

Larry, I don’t think that you ah that new to this he ah blog, mattah ah fact I think that you ah postun undah moah than one name you ahself. Yes, ah bit fishah I think. Mattah ah fact I think I might know just whoah you ah! Why else wood you ah be ah braggun on that theyah DOB, and how wood you ah know othah bloggahs on he ah? I think you ah just anothah posah! So mind yo ah own biznis from nowah on.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:18 AM | Link to this

N8, you wrote: “Billy, in all fairness to ALL involved, Marquis would’ve NEVER succeeded in Atlanta. The word “on the street” that I remember is that Marquis and LEO didn’t see eye to eye and the butted heads on more than one occasion. Marquis needed the change of scenery, he wasn’t EVER gonna get out of Leo’s doghouse. Whether that is correct (or right or wrong) is up to debate.”

Not open for debate. You were exactly right about the situation.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 02:20 AM | Link to this

kluttz, we’ve been over this. JS has made very few bad trades as the Braves’ GM. Check out my post from 12:43. You can’t say he’s making more bad trades than good ones, because it simply isn’t true. Quit hating.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 02:27 AM | Link to this

Drummerdad, that was succinct, was it not? Hell, I just like stirring the $#@%-pot. I’m sure he’s a great kid and he might be the next Koufax, I’m just sayin…The Braves are in a “I’ll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today” mode monetarily; if we want to fill needs we got to draw poker.

By Jeff Childress

December 9, 2006 02:28 AM | Link to this

I say why not go for it. There are really no guarantees that Baldelli will stay healthy or that any of the 3 prospects will be stars. Sometimes you just have to take a chance and Baldelli could be what this team needs right now. Salty will probably pan out but like others have said, he doesn’t really have a spot here. There is plenty of depth in the middle infield, and Davies probably won’t help much this year. Then I would like to see Giles and Langerhans packaged to some team for a couple of low-level starting pitching prospects. The way I see it the depth is still there with Thorman, Diaz, Johnson, Aybar,TPena and Andrus on the way. A few of these guys still have great potential to be above average players as much as the ones being traded away. And there are still some good young pitchers in the organization who are not that far away from what Davies is now with the same potential.

By TennesseePaul

December 9, 2006 02:29 AM | Link to this

Robert JIB: Andruw is 29. I tried re-reading that but don’t see where the 33 works out. Maybe I misunderstood your time frame in the post. He’ll be 30 at the end of next season.

I still don’t think that Drew trade was as bad as some bemoan. Drew had a fantastic season. Eli did as well, though not as flashy as Drews. Marquis was worthless for the Cards. They didn’t even keep him on the post season roster this year. King was traded (Ray King, Wainwright and Marquis was the deal for Eli and Drew). Wainwright immediately got injured for the Cards and had surgery. Now, two years later he is in the pros. I’d say, if anything, that deal was a wash.

Schmidt. I still don’t see why everyone is so smitten by this guy. It took him forever to produce a good season. he’s had only a handful of good seasons. He’s all hype and injury. He’s in the news because the FA market is that terrible. He is terribly over paid. Basically, he is praised as if he’s a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher, yet he will be nothing more than a forgotten footnote as time presses on.

The Kolb trade is the worst deal JS has made that I can think of even though Capellan hasn’t done much of anything with the Brewers. I don’t think he’s learned how to throw a curve ball yet. But Kolb was awful and I think we could have packaged Capellan with some other kid and gotten something, anything better than Kolb. Kolb is the only player I can think of that JS traded for who absolutely possitively was a miserable failure. Every one else JS trades for fills in nicely, some times incredibly. Even still, I think these 3 guys is too much for Baldelli. That much would seem to be enough to get Crawford. And I’m not even sure I’d pull the trigger on that considering Crawford can’t lead off. Daiz and Langerhans produced similar numbers to Baldelli last year for even less money.

There has to be some kind of deal out there for Giles. Something. Non-tendering him would leave us with nothing. So at some point any trade is better than absolutely nothing. But I do have a question…

DOB: If the Braves do non-tender Giles and he becomes a free agent, and then some other team signes him, would that return a draft pick? I’m assuming Giles is a Type A, but I guess I could be way off on this.

Not sure if anyone has noticed Dayton Moore’s workings with KC. Not too impressed with that Meche signing. That deal alone makes me happy he is getting experience with some other team. But he still has time to work out a good franchise. 11 million over 5 years for Meche… sheeeesh.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 02:30 AM | Link to this

Davies, Salty and Escobar aren’t needs. Baldelli is. I’ll discard four and show you my ace.

By akirell

December 9, 2006 02:30 AM | Link to this

DOB,

do you know of any good places online to buy old vinyl LPs for cheap?

i’m trying to get most of tom waits’ discography on vinyl and i’m having trouble doing so!

just thought i’d ask.

By kluttz13

December 9, 2006 02:34 AM | Link to this

Drew, I’m not hating and I read your post. I’m being a FAN of the only baseball team I’ve ever followed. A fan that doesn’t want our farm system wiped clean in the hopes that we win ONE MORE Division Title. If you can’t understand that passion you have no business trying to dictate my feelings on the matter.

The past will repeat itself because JS didn’t learn anything from it.

Giving up THREE of the best players in our farm system for Baldelli is suicide for the organization over the LONG-TERM. When the well dries up, we will be in worse shape than the Yankees, because we can’t spend the money to compensate for the lack of farm talent.

It’s not hate. It’s concern. But thanks for your assessment Mr. Freud.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 02:37 AM | Link to this

DOB, listening to Allison Krauss sing “When you say nothing at all.” If I was a billionaire, I’d pay her whatever she asked to sing me to sleep every night. All BS aside.

By Georgetown Kid

December 9, 2006 02:45 AM | Link to this

By any objective measure, JS is certainly among the best front-office managers in all of professional sports. And such a measure would not only consider explicit talent evaluation or player trades, but would also have to consider the depth and overall institutional capacity of the Operations Division of a team.

The Atlanta Braves are among the best run professional sports franchises in the entire professional sports industry, in every aspect. JS deserves the lion’s share of the credit for that.

That being said, I hope that JS is willing to deviate slightly from his standard approach, in that I hope he is willing to accept a net loss in terms of Total Expected Value by sacraficing future returns (a.k.a. young prospects) in exchange for immediate return (a.k.a. a top-notch established player).

5 years down the road, it may be said that the D-Rays got the better end of this trade. But the Braves would be better off in the short term, by a considerable margin.

As currently constructed, the Braves are not a viable WS contender. With this trade (and assuming Giles is dumped), the Braves would be a viable WS contender.

I would prefer to see success in 2007, and let 2009 and 2010 take care of themselves.

By kluttz13

December 9, 2006 02:49 AM | Link to this

FWIW, I would much rather sell high on Giles and/or LaRoche to fill the positions we need and develop our talent in the minors.

By Drummerdad

December 9, 2006 02:52 AM | Link to this

Off to bed here. got another late one tomorrow night.

DOB, thanks for the effort and enthusiasm you put into this for and with us. It’s fun to read your material this time of year. It’s clear you get pretty excited about the moves the Braves make and enjoy what you’re doing most of the time. thanks again.

Were you a Braves fan when you came here from Miami, or did it develop along with the job?

Merry Christmas gang. even you Grinch. you’re a funny man.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 02:53 AM | Link to this

G’town Kid, you are the man. Well said.

By Thecoolest

December 9, 2006 02:54 AM | Link to this

Giving up on Davies isn’t the greatest idea. Give him a year or two and if he can’t regain the ability to eat innings up, then trade him. Pitchers, even so-so ones, are in short supply, so no for Davies. And James of course.

Salty can be traded… Doesn’t an amazing catcher already play for the Braves? Overkill, methinks. And we still need Escobar.

We still have Reitsma, don’t we? Perhaps the Rays would be interested. If we can get Soriano for Ramirez, surely there’s a market for an underperforming closer.

While we’re at it, throw in Sturtze. I see no intelligent reason to have acquired him anyway.

And you know what? Try Giles too. It may seem odd, but if we’re to non-tender him or whatever in a week, who knows? He may just be the deciding factor.

Really, though, I’m sure JS won’t do anything stupid. Beyond sure, infact.

By Ron Roberts

December 9, 2006 03:07 AM | Link to this

If the D-Rays would take two of the three pieces in this discussion, I’d take him, but Escobar, in my mind, is the more untouchable of the three.

But there’s just something in the back of my mind that says Kyle Davies is going to be Glavine-esquq in the not too distant future.

But as the ol’ saying goes…

….you gotta give up talent to get it in return.

And this flies in the face of the Schuerholz/Cox mentality of “good pitching trumps good hitting.”

To swing towards the other way… Baldelli would take care of our leadoff, left field issues this season, and most certainly take care of a potential Andruw void in 2008, as well. The ‘08 outfield free agency game is gonna be VERY costly, and Baldelli will be a veritable blip on the radar, money-wise, by comparison, next season.

Question is, with Smoltz age, Hampton’s still being a question mark, as well as Hudson, and our basing our confidence in Chuck James on one season to date… if we had to bolster the rotation in ‘08 due to any of those guys slipping… how costly will that market be in the next offseason, too?

If I’m Schuerholz, I’d size that up and figure out which market I could afford to play in next year at this time and base the Baldelli decision on that.

Ehh, I just don’t know.

By Jay

December 9, 2006 03:09 AM | Link to this

Im all for trading Salty. Basically its trade Cockroache and move Salty to first or trade Salty. But NOOOOO to Baldelli. He’s injury-prone. We already have one injury-prone player that the offense leans on…Chipper. We dont need two. And when Baldelli has his inevitable injury, we’re back to Langerhans wasting ml atbats. No thanks.

By The Grinch

December 9, 2006 03:14 AM | Link to this

Wishing the Grinch a Merry Christmas? That’s kind of like wishing Hitler a Happy Hannukuh(sp?). Yeah, yeah, BOOOOO! Y’all know what I mean. I’m fixin’ to pass out, literally and figuratively. G’night!

By Brent

December 9, 2006 03:31 AM | Link to this

If I’ve learned anything from watching the Braves over the last 15 years, it is that depth at starting pitching leads to division titles. There is no reason to trade away two of our top hitting prospects, and one of our top young starters, unless we will get an excellent starting pitcher in return.

Our bullpin is fixed, and the hitting will be very good again, the only wild card for this team next year is the starting pitching. Baldelli may be able to add a few runs to our already potent offense, but we’ll need depth at starting pitching to really improve over last year. Davies has never proven himself at the big league level, but he has a plus curveball, a plus fastball, and a good changeup. When he figures out how to keep his fastball down, he’ll be good for 12-16 wins per year. James has already shown that he has the potential to be an ace on this league, and unless the Braves know something about him that I don’t, then he should not be a part of any trade discussions. Hitting is exciting, but pitching wins championships (divisional and world series).

By BayouBrave

December 9, 2006 03:44 AM | Link to this

DOB: One thing I keep hearing a lot of lately is how the Braves need a left fielder. But don’t they already have a log jam there with Diaz, Langerhans and Kelly Johnson when he comes back? Are the Braves planning to trade one or more of these if they trade for Baldelli? I’m all for the trade, but it just puzzles me why the team would want a third left fielder…

By N8

December 9, 2006 03:55 AM | Link to this

Brent

(btw: not sure why I’m still up!)

you said:

*”Hitting is exciting, but pitching wins championships (divisional and world series).”

You are half right! LOL! Pitching won us a LOT of divisional Championships. But didn’t really help us in the WS, did it?

I think when the playoffs come around, you need great pitching and TIMELY hitting. Unfortunately for us, we have gotten too much of one and not enough of the other (on both counts - when we’ve gotten good pitching, the hitting fails us and the other way around, the times we get good hitting, we’re losing 10-9)

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 9, 2006 04:14 AM | Link to this

Cheezy Fudge? Goodness!

Alfred Larue was another man in black … him, Hoppy, that boy named Sue, and David O’B. … Gracious!

Great Ring of Fire! No, that don’t work!

I think it could be a good trade … sounds like a fun player to watch, especially if he’s on your team … and the potential as an Andruw replacement is interesting … when and if … but, what we got ain’t so bad either.

By Peter

December 9, 2006 04:14 AM | Link to this

Why is everybody suddenly into the “chicken counting” business? How do we know what will happen to McCann? Who says we’ll be able to keep anybody when we have no idea what a 2008 payroll may be?

This isn’t the old Braves. We have to keep the young guys because we may be Oakland “East” here soon. I think we’re living in denial now because it seems as if we’re counting on a lot of big “if’s” this season.

That is potentially a very fragile rotation and how many games will Chipper be able to play? Frenchy is streaky and LF is empty.

Don’t think the hometown guys won’t walk for more money in the future either. I just don’t think right now that you can call us contenders. Hope I’m wrong.

By smalvil

December 9, 2006 04:17 AM | Link to this

I agree with BayouBrave, it make’s little sense to stock up on LFs. What are we, the hawks drafting committee? anyways, is it possible to acquire Baldelli and not trade Giles, but rather move him back to the 2nd spot and just shif everyone else down? If his hitting is what’s got everyone riled then that seems like a good fit.

By Ron

December 9, 2006 04:38 AM | Link to this

JS is gettin so blackballed, because no GM is going to give up anything to get Giles when they know that he will probably get non-tender because of the money, but it would be good if Giles signed a 1year deal for about 2million to stay in atlanta. Wonder what the other GMs would think? (Padres)?

And also no freakin way do you trade Salty, Escobar, and Davies are they insane. Remember last year when the Braves tried to trade for lugo before getting Renteria, The D-Rays asked for Marte, and McCann. HAHA they did not get much half that deal when they traded Lugo to the Dodgers last year. If I were the Braves I would not do business with a crappy team like the D-Rays, I dont blame the D-Rays for asking for alot but their not going to get as much as they offer. Crappy organization with alot of talent except pitchers. Maybe the braves want trade for Baldelli. Maybe teams will blackball the D-Rays GM like they are doin to JS. Everybody knows that they have alot of outfielders, Gomez, Crawford, Young, Dukes in the waiting, maybe Upton. They need to trade Baldelli. Why give up alot for a injured player, and he will be injured while playing with the Braves.

What about this for the upcoming years,C- McCann, 1B- LaRoach, 2B- Prado or Escobar, SS- Elvis Andrus (A young Andruw Jones) 3B- Escobar or maybe Pope, RF- Frenchy, LF- Salty why cant he move to the outfield it is only LF he should be able to handle that. CF- That Johnson dude that they drafted in the first round this year, Out of high school in Florida, he was only 17 years old and has great promise. Would that not be a heck of a team. And starters could be Hudson, James, Davies, maybe Hampton dont know for sure and by then the braves will have other good staters to put in the rotation with Hudson,James, and Davies.

That is my opinion, alot can and will probably change by then but what a team that could be. Barring no major injuries and players living up to their potential.

By kluttz13

December 9, 2006 06:21 AM | Link to this

Folks, the key number is 29.

29 blown saves by the Braves bullpen in 2006. How many games did the Braves finish out of first? 18. How many games out of the WC? 9. If the bullpen could’ve nailed down at least half of those games think of the possibilities.

Instead, the Braves went into 2006 with a makeshift BP. Heck, the Braves BP has been terrible since the front office thought that Dan K* was a viable replacement for closer. I agree with JS that the pitching needed improvement and he did that with the extension to Wicky and the trade for Soriano. The BP looks really tough now. Something that can add confidence to the starters.

So why do the Braves need to trade away the studs (3) in the minors to fill one position? To simply make a trade? I’m sorry but I disagree with that mentality. I just hope that JS isn’t going to be scared by Bora$$ and the impending Andruw situation to make a deal that may help today but prove costly tomorrow.

I’ll get off the soapbox now.

By ssiscribe

December 9, 2006 07:04 AM | Link to this

Top of da morning … a chilly one at that. It’s 15 outside at my place … surely knew it would be cold leaving the coast, but this cold?

Where was I? Oh yeah, the trade.

After sleeping on it — and after thinking some more while Little Scribe, Baby Scribe and Cousin Scribe (ages 4, 3 and 2) run through my living room — I still do the deal for Baldelli.

I see both sides of the issue, and I think it’s one that requires great thought and consideration (unlike Ramirez for Soriano, a deal where you get it done before the other guy changes his mind). In the end, I like the trade because you are fixing immediate needs for 2007, giving yourself a very viable option for filling the biggest hole in 2008, all for a freakin bargain.

Potentially, Salty, Escobar and Davies all could be stars. In reality, you’re giving up a guy who didn’t hit for three months at AA, a guy who did tear it up in the Arizona Fall League but who still isn’t ready to play in the majors right now, and a guy with tremendous upside coming off a rough year.

Potential is what it is. Potential is Adam Wainwright eventually closing out the World Series. Potential also is Brad Komminisk, for your long-time fans. Potential is Javy Lopez from the Class of 94. Potential is Mike Kelly from the Class of 94.

While it’s nice to have a stockpile of talent, sometimes it’s best to give up something to get something in return if it helps you right now.

If the Braves were so willing to give up LaRoche AND Giles to Baltimore, certainly they have to pull the trigger on this one.

The Scribe abides. Breakfast is waiting, and since I’m the only one awake who can reach the stove, guess I’m cooking.

Peace.

—30—

By br618

December 9, 2006 07:06 AM | Link to this

the deal makes sense because they are just “prospects” (brad komminsk, anyone)who would play center when andruw leaves?, baldelli or franceour? giles must go, hes going to make 5 mill and he has been injured quite a bit himself…now with steroid testing he may never hit over 15 homers again and his body will continue to take a beating @ 2b….

By Braves2k6

December 9, 2006 07:21 AM | Link to this

How long can the Braves continue to drain the swamp under their minor league system before they run out of talent? If they didn’t have skin-flint owners, they could afford to keep the veteran players who earn decent money and stil have the youngsters too. I think Baldelli looks like a good trade, but this practice of throwing away the future stars has to stop.

By tim

December 9, 2006 07:54 AM | Link to this

we had a chance to ULOAD LALOSER and we will regret not doing so. he had a career yr and will NEVER duplicate such a thing again. Laroche is a boat anchor who will never hit in clutch pays no attention to whats going on around him and goes home to first in 3.7 HOURS. trade him now to anyone that will take this bum. find a legite leadoff man and put Marcus in the 2 or 8 hole. Move Chipper to 1st maybe he won’t hurt his little toe over there. Dump AJ before he and Boras dump us and we get nothing in return. As long as Timewarner owns this team we will not compete for the East. They will not put money in the team. but don’t blame our boys except Laroche he stinks and covers as much ground as a light post with the attention span of a brick

By G-Money

December 9, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this

Baldelli we’ll take. Just don’t trade any of our good whites for any nig9ers!!!

By Bill

December 9, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this

I agree with the guy that said the braves get thier players from E.R.
True we need starting pitching, then we would need less relief. Trading a matured first baseman coming up on his best year in baseball, WHY? . where are you going to find another producer like Roche? Don’t we need a good first baseman too? Giles has hustled from the time He hit Atlanta, and if you look at the records you’ll see He’s bailed the game out many times times, Why do the other teams want Him? Bobby said Andruw is the best He’s ever seen, I agree, AJ is destined to be one of the greatest, better than Bonds ,no drugs and respect for the game and the fans. Bonds salary isn’t too much for the Giants. Again isn’t the Goal to have the best at every position. Not JUST pitching. Where the main problem is , is in the G.M. office. Where are the owners? We need a baseball man as GM, Not an egotist who writes books. Now He’s trying to be manager as well. Love the Braves, appreciate the great job Bobbys done, our best hope as fans , is the team will be sold to someone that loves baseball.

By Matt

December 9, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this

“With Roberts and Giles being similar _ except Roberts has and would bat leadoff without reluctance _ the deal would’ve amounted to LaRoche for Penn, right?”

Wrong. You make a big deal about Baldelli being able to hit leadoff, but you dismiss the fact that Roberts can, as well. The Braves could have traded two players that will get significant raises for two players that would have filled two major holes. Leadoff and major league ready pitching. As opposed to trading three of our top prospects to fill one of those needs.

By Don

December 9, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

Well, I’ve read all the rather biased assessments of Schuerholz’s past trades. However, no one has postede a convincing argument about Baldelli. I think that most just want a trade. Not smart.

By Chris

December 9, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

What’s the word on Kelly Johnson? He’s a former SS and he gets on base. Is there any thought on the part of Schuerholz and Cox of putting him at 2B and leadoff?

By TD

December 9, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

Living up here in Baltimore and having to hear all about the O’s, the O’s were not going to go through the trade. As you stated in came down to Angelos and he can approve or veto any trade the O’s make and (right again) Angelos isn’t letting Roberts go because he is probably the most popular player the team has. (the word up here was the O’s were asking for more) The Braves should have gone after Tejada, who is unhappy being up here and puts up exceptional numbers and move Renteria. I am not sure how much longer Tejada is signed for, but he is a bargain. The O’s expect Penn to become an excellent ML pitcher and develop along with Lowen and Cabrera to put the team back into contention in the AL East. But, not making trades like the one proposed is why they have so many losing seasons. LaRoche could have put up even better numbers in Camden Yards

By Long Winded Obrien

December 9, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

D@mn you are longwinded- O’Brien! Here’s an idea, try to make your point using fewer words. It’s like talking to my 5 year old nephew.

By Adam

December 9, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

I am guessing if the deal gets done for Baldelli, JS will find a way to pull a pitching prospect out of the D-Rays in that package who will end up being a valuable piece for the Braves down the line. I would pull the trigger on that deal in a hearbeat. Not that I don’t like the prospects, but the Braves need some help now, not in 2 years when these prospects are ready to go. The Braves have a ton of depth in the minors with middle infielders but not so much with good outfielders. McCann isn’t going anywhere and Davies worries me with the way he is afraid to throw stikes and also with his inability to get the ball down in the strike zone.

Baldelli would give the Braves the best outfield in baseball and solve the leadoff issue. My only question would be who is going to be the 5th starter? Cormier to me isn’t a true option and I don’t think Oscar is the answer either. JS has been preaching that pitching is the top priority this offseason and it’s hard to find decent pitching for a reasonable price. Gil Meche got $55 mil over 5 years. That’s unbelievable! So the question is who is our 5th starter if we trade Davies?

By MadduxRules

December 9, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

Yes, you make this trade. The ability to have a young rising start already in place to replace Andruw next year (if he leaves) trumps having a catcher that won’t catch in Atl anytime soon, a good prospect that plays a position that is one of your farm system’s strengths, and a pitcher that isn’t going to play a major role (Davies) in the next couple of years. Of course, I am of the opinion that Davies will be not be more than a 4-5 type starter in the next couple of years. He may be later (I doub it, but he may be). JS has always been good at balancing competing now without mortgaging the future. I know these players are all good prospects, but they are not the future per se. McCann is the future at catcher, Elvis is potentially the future at SS (and we have Renteria under contract and cheap for 2 more years), and Davies may or may not evolve into something more than a end of the rotation guy. The financial flexibility of Baldelli allows the Braves to find a pitcher to replace Davies.

Of course, the Braves could trade Andruw to the Dodgers for Penny (also cheap in this market) and their young stud reliever (: I just think it gives the Braves more options.

By MadduxRules

December 9, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

Lineup and staff if they get Baldelli and trade Andruw:

Baldelli Renteria Chipper McCann Francoeur LaRoche LF - Another trade since we would have more money? Monroe?) Prado

Starters: Smoltz Hudson Hampton Penny James

Top 5 Relievers: Wickman Soriano Broxton McBride Yates

By old timer

December 9, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

I would do the Baldelli trade. But isn’t there a rule that a player swapped in the middle of a multi-year contract can void the contract?

By Chris_in_PA

December 9, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

I personally don’t think we should give up Salty in this deal…if it was Crawford, I would say “YES.” But I would much rather see JS give up Escobar and two starting pitchers, which is what TB needs anyway. Maybe Davies and Reyes, Lerew, or Harrison?

By morris

December 9, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

I would absolutely not do this deal. Salty, escobar, and davies for a guy who has been injured half his career? Yes baldelli has talent, but all of you falcon fans out there know about injury prone talent- John Abraham. I used to hate the thought of trading salty but since the braves refuse to remove him from behind the plate we will have no other option. I would be o.k with salty and davies for this guy, but not all three.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

Matt-You tend to overlook the fact that Roberts costs as much as Giles. He also has numbers almost identical to Giles. This pitcher everyone is so high on had an ERA over 9.00 in the majors. He has potential and that’s all he has shown, if that. That is hardly worth LaRoche, who almost brought us Gonzalez from the Pirates, The thing with Baldelli is that not only can he hit leadoff, but would take care of the left field situation this year and be able to take over for Andruw next season, should Andruw leave, which does seem like a certainty. He is outrageously cheap for five years, which is huge in this time of fiscal insanity. If he does, in fact, get injured, he costs next to nothing because A. much of what he earns is tied to performance and B. The club holds options on at least the last two years of the contract and can just jettison him if it comes to that. Now The Farm System-How many of you even have a clue about the farm? Other than Salty or Escobar, who do you know about? Second base is loaded and Escobar is not even being considered for the position. The Braves stated this week that he was not ready to play 2B in the majors-period. Eric Campbell is being groomed for 2B. He hit .295 with 22HR and 77RBI at Rome last season. They also have J.C. Holt in the wings. Escobar isn’t even the leading SS prospect in the minors. Elvis Andrus is. As a matter of fact, he is the number one prospect in the Braves system, and is considered to be a superstar in the making. He is still a teenager. At catcher we already have McCann, but does anyone realize that Brayan Pena is also a major league ready catcher who has hit .300 at every stop he’s made? We also have Phillip Britton developing. We are extremely deep at catcher and it is very doubtful that Salty will ever play for the Braves. Despite what many think, he will not be switched to first base. They just don’t want to do it. Now first base. After LaRoche, we have Thorman, who many last year wanted to substitute for Roachy, because Roachy made an error. After Thorman there is Kala Ka’aihue a power hitting 1B that hit 28 HR last year with 80 RBI. He has been compared to Gallarrag, which though it may be unfair to him, may also be somewhat accurrate. As far as pitching, Matt Harrison, a stud LHP with an unreal (5-1) K to BB ratio, and the calm demeanor of Glavine, is within possibly half a season of being MLB ready. Lerew is still capable of being great. Joey Devine is still developing and we have JoJO Reyes coming up in a year or so.Also Beau Jones, Will Startup, Cory Rasmus and Dan Smith, in addition to a number of others. We are hardly bereft of great talent in the minors, like some seem to think. I was listening to XM Home Plate the other day, and the analysts were extolling the virtues of the Braves’ farm system as one of the best in baseball. People, we are in great shape even if Salty and Escobar are dealt.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Long Winded- Try this for brevity-You’re a jerk.

By Jeff

December 9, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Lew- you ahve really changed my mine on this deal, i am now for it. Great explaination.

By Brian

December 9, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

The D-Rays ALWAYS ask for way too much and get nothing We need to patient, like with the Soriano trade. Here is the D-Rays situation: They have too many outfielders that is why Baldelli and Crawford are available. #1 minor league prospect Delmon Young is waiting in the wings and top draft pick BJ Upton is a defensive nightmare at SS and needs to be moved to the outfield. They NEED to move either Baldelli or Crawford and they need to do it THIS year. If they don’t move one of them, then next year teams like the Dodgers, Red Sox, Rangers, Braves, Angels will try and first fill their outfield needs with top free agents like Jones, Wells, Hunter, Cameron, etc. Personally, I’d rather go for Crawford, but Baldelli is more than good enough. The Braves should be patient and offer Salty and Escobar; Salty or Escobar and two pitching prospects like Lerew and JoJo Reyes.

By Charles

December 9, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Getting Baldelli’s bat would be a huge improvement to the lineup and I think it would go a long way toward making this team a serious contender. However as much as I would love to see Baldelli in a Braves uni there is just no way that we should give up Kyle Davies. Baldelli is a good player, and maybe he is worth what the Devil Rays are asking for even if that’s the case I don’t think the Braves can afford him. They need Davies in the rotation more than they need Baldelli in LF. Without Davies the Brave will be forced to use Lance Cormier as their 5th starter…ouch! Plus if any starting pitcher gets injured (god help us if two go down with injuries) who will take their spots in the rotation?

While this is an exciting deal I just don’t see how it would help JS’s stated goal of strengthening the pitching. Are there any servicable Free Agent pitchers left that the Braves could get for a bargain? I am sure there are not, but if there are that might make trading Davies more palatable.

By Rosalynn

December 9, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Well, some litlle Stinka Donka has realla taken to my posts. Imitation is sinceah flattera - and if that’s true most everyone on heah has to be flattahd because that boy has no original thoughts of his own. Copyin’ evahbody’s names and ideahs and pickin’ on that nice DOB. Imagine, suggestin’ a journalis like Jimma Smith doin’ yahdwohk! Not at this Carta Centa! Jimma Smith can help my Jimma with his next book to sorta keep my Jimma out of trouble if you know what I mean. Jimma’s book stahted out as a colohin’ book but then Jimma decidided to add some moah maps and some otha stuff and soon Jimma’s book just took on a life of its own.

Now, that boy that thinks Caholina Lada and I am the same lada is wrong about that. Caholina Lada is in Caholina and I am in the Carta Centa with the forma leada of the free wohld who has his own attack submahreen. “What? What’s that, Jimma? Oh, you want to be the Skippa again? Okay, honey, I mean Skippa … heah I come Skippa … OH, SKIPPA! . . .”

By ray

December 9, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

IN regards to Jason Schmidt and as he has developed in a top pitcher. Several years ago while he had his second strong season with SF, in an interview, he talked about his development and his days with the Braves. He said the trade away from Atlanta was the best thing that happened to him because as an Atlanta pitcher he was trying to live up to the reputation and to the level of Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux. Once he got away from Atlanta, the self-imposed pressure eased and he was able to develop. Not to beat a dead horse, but is Tampa just dead set against trading Crawford? Yes it would take a bit more but there is little comparison between Rocco and Crawford. Just throwing it out there.

By KC

December 9, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Baldelli… a .329 career obp? Yes, that does scare me for a leadoff hitter. Particularly one that’s really not all that much of a base stealer.

By KC

December 9, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Following up on my last post… I would be in favor of trading for Baldelli, but to give up Salty, AND Escobar, AND Davies??? That’s crazy!

Offer either Salty or Escobar, Matt Diaz. and a young pitcher (someone like J.Devine maybe?). I might include Davies in that deal… but I’m not sure about that.

By NCBravesFan

December 9, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

I agree with Charles - the trade on the table looks like it’s too costly to me. As for Brad Penny for AJ, I have read that Penny is not a good clubhouse guy at all. The Braves will play ‘Druw in 2007 and try to re-sign him. If that’s not the plan, the Soriano trade and attempts to get Baldelli or other players make zero sense. Put it this way … if the Braves are to content for a World Series next year, Andruw has to be here. Period.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

flabravesgirl, are you speaking of cheese fudge? oh, the humanity! the perfect food! you are correct that all journalists will want to have some of this cheese fudge. perhaps some can be mailed to all the journalists on this blog as a christmas gift? let’s see … journalist dob, journalist guy - oops, bad time to retire when the fudge is coming out of the oven … journalist scribe (and enough for little scribes), journalist bob - oh, wait - bob is now plain and simple and will not want anything as desirable as cheese fudge (again, bad timing to change from a journalist), and of course, this journalist. did this journalist leave out other journalists? lew, penn, hk, robertjitb? the solution is cheese fudge for everybody!

now, about this journalist doing yardwork as depicted by the fake rosalynn aka stinky/sda/etal … in uganda this journalist was often called upon to clear fields and wrestle beests away from the houses. in cordele, this journaliist has tended many a watermelon field. in suburbia where this journalist now resides this journalist tends a beautiful garden with flowers, trees, and many delightful birds (worms are no longer a problem).

now, baseball and trading … if rocco baldelli opened a deli and in that deli, roccco baldelli sold nothing but smelly, smelly, cheese … how long would it take, for someone to bake, a pie or a cake, to sell in that deli to turn it from smelly into something that would please? this is much like baseball - if the braves give up more pitchers they must be prepared to score many, many more runs because they will give up so many runs each game. the starters have to get through at least five or six to get to the bullpen. last year the braves lost numerous games in which they scored 8 or more runs - the offense was not the problem in most games. pitching was the problem. beware running out of pitching. beware! beware! one must not have a deli with no pie.

By roan st

December 9, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Lew, I follow the farm system as well, and yes we have a very good pipeline of talent. But that still doesn’t mean we should throw all these guys at an injury prone player. Imagine what salty could bring next summer if he starts tearing up the minors, which many believe he will. The braves refusal to move him to first base is puzzling to me, especially after they openly entertained trading laroche. It seems they are destined to trade him, so I think we should at least maximize his value. Remember he is coming off an injury plagued year and if he has a big season we will get something better in return.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

DOB—Are you going to permit racial slurs on your blogs like the one in the above 8:06 A.M. post?—I would certainly hope not!!!…

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

old timer, right? welcome back!

By Paul

December 9, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

Baldelli would be a nice fit in Atlanta. However, it is tough to trade three prospects away. Davies has shown flashes, and the Mets trading Kazmir to the D-Rays is in the back of my mind. (I know that Kazmir was rated higher as a prospect) That would be a tough move for Davies. Pitching against the AL East would be a tough adjustment. Hey DOB, I know you are a coffee man. If you haven’t already, pick up the Tassamo coffee machine. You will not be disappointed. Makes the best cup of coffee in the world.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Roan St- Yes, it may seem perplexing, but, Dude, that’s the way the Braves are playing it, right, wrong, or indifferent. Yes, Salty may bring some unreal return next year or he could just as easily tear an ACL and be done for two years or even for good. That’s the thing about prospects-you just don’t know. For that matter, what if Andruw pulls a Brian Asselstine (anyone remember him). I was at the game where Brian climbed the wall at the Launching Pad and broke his ankle. End of career. The point is youjust don’t know. Now as far as Baldelli. He makes $750,00 this year (exactly what they are paying Sturtze). Next year it is $2.25 mil (if he has 600PA this year, which if he is injured, he won’t). All of his five years his salary is tied to incentives. If he is injured and does not perform, he doesn’t get a larger raise. The last two years of his contract are club options. If we are not happy, he is gone. If we are happy, you do what we did with Chipper, extend his contract guaranteeing the option years and adding more for a larger total. Now look at this. Most are saying Andruw will cost $20 mil per (if he doesn’t give a home town discount). Baldelli makes $29 mil for FIVE seasons. Duh! He fills needs and is cheap. If he doesn’t perform he is even cheaper, so what exactly do we lose except the minor leaguers and Davies. It is doubtful Salty will be a Brave. Same for Escobar. Now Davies. People wonder about Cormier or Villarreal as fifth starter. Let’s compare. Davies- 14 starts, 3-7 8.38 ERA with only four starts over 4 IP and only three starts with 3ER or less. Cormier- 6 games with more than 5.1 IP, 37.1 IP with 12 Er for an ERA of less than 3.00. Villarreal- 58 appearances, 9-1 with a 3.61 ERA. Does anyone besides me see somewhat of a disparity here? Do you really think Cormier is a poor choice for #5. I don’t think so.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Jacka$$-We ignore it, much like we ignore you.

By blah

December 9, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Generally speaking, Baldelli doesn’t take many walks, so his OBP will be low. Good leadoff numbers, but 191 AB is a fairly small sample, and I’d expect that he’d regress to the his overall batting average established in 1,300 AB. The best argument for getting the guy is that he’s 25 y/o (so he may well improve) and will be cheap for several seasons.

My horrible but semi-serious idea is to have Francoeur bad leadoff. The Braves need to do something to teach that boy how to take a walk.

By Jim

December 9, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

Play Langy everyday in left, and his numbers will soar. Let Pete Orr play everyday at 2nd, and he will do the same. It is nearly impossible for anyone to post good numbers if they don’t play regularly. If these guys are given the opportunity I would be willing to bet that they will produce!

By Alan

December 9, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

A while ago, someone asked why the Braves list Prado ahead of Escobar when they talk about their 2B in ‘07. It’s got to be because Prado has played the position a lot longer and is more comfortable there. Escobar is a shortstop. It’s a lot like the Betemit situation last year. Wilson was much more comfortable on the left side of the infield. Others have pointed out the other “prospects” (like Nieves and Elliott in the McGriff trade in ‘03 - JS’s best trade ever IMO - and Meyer, Cruz and Thomas to the A’s for Hudson in Dec. of ‘04) and how JS has managed to fleece teams so often. I agree. However, McGriff and Hudson were bonafide all-stars at the time of those trades; Baldelli is not. He’s good, he’s fast, he’s eminently affordable - but he’s not an all-star, at least not yet. And every one of the guys who’ve been mentioned in this trade is a top-flight prospect. Just because they don’t fit in the Braves’ plans in ‘07 - and, by the way, Davies does fit at the moment - is not a good enough reason to trade ALL THREE for 1 very good (but not an all-star) player. I’m okay with trading Salty, mainly because of the Braves’ superior depth at C and 1B, but I’m opposed to including Escobar, who has a chance to be very special player, and I’m particularly opposed to trading Davies because he’s a starting pitcher with tremendous upside. It’s just too, too much to give up for 1 guy - “cool” name or not. It’s clear that the Braves are making a play for Baldelli as insurance for Andruw’s inevitable departure after the season, and that’s fine. It makes sound business sense. I hope they get him. I just think it’s too high a price. And it does nothing to help the bottom line in ‘07. In fact, for now it adds to the bottom line. And Marcus Giles’s arbitration deadline moves ever closer. I said it last night - how about Marcus and Salty and maybe a lesser pitcher (not Harrison or Reyes - maybe Lerew or Devine or someone even a notch below them) for Baldi? That’s a lot, too, but it’s only 1 top prospect AND it effectively dumps Giles’s salary. I’d hate to lose Giles and get nothing in return. As I understand it, if Giles and any other arbitration-eligible player (such as Reitsma, for example) is not offered arbitration by midnight on Dec. 12, they can sign elsewhere and their former team receives no compensation of any kind. That would be a sin IMO. Chances are, a possible Baldelli trade would be related to a move with Giles - and maybe even Andruw - but it still bothers me that there appears to be no sense of urgency with Giles.

By blah

December 9, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Please remove the racist (8:06 a.m.) post.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

jimmy smith—It’s time for you to stop aspersing me as being this “stinky” blogger, it isn’t me—if I have something to say to someone I will say it directly to that person! Considering the kindness and hospitality that this JackAss has attempted to exemplify toward you by taking you to Mary Mac’s for a nice dinner, which consequently I paid for, including tips and limo service. Not to mention the sheer embarassment associated with having my limo wait beside of the highway while you crawled thru the underbrush, swam a ditch, and then attempted to climb into the trunk of that automobile, disconcerting to say the least! Then to add insult to injury, you displayed really bad manners by attending the dinner while being fully aware of a severe case of disgusting flatulence that you brought along with you. However, the thing that made me aware of just how truly uncouth you really are, you were too damn cheap to tip the waiters! But, in spite of all of this, and all previous snipes, I will once again be a JackAss of good character and extend to you the olive branch of peace. We can work together to expose the real stinky blogger, or we can continue our childish dispraise of each other. The ball is in your court as they say…Good Day!!!…

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

LEW—If you were really ignoring me you wouldn’t have made that comment!

By Carolina Lady

December 9, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Don’t just remove the 8:06 post, block the IP of the person who wrote it.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss

You had to bring attention to it too didn’t you? Just like a kid…when another kid says a bad word you rush off and tell. That comment disgust me but yours just brings it into the lime light and gives it the attention that the person who wrote desperately needed.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

Alan-Exactly how do you know about the no sense of urgency? Where have you seen that reported? From what I can tell, there is no interest in Giles from anyone. It is my understanding that not even a bat and a dozen balls has been offered for him, much less the likes of Scott Linebrink. The Braves are btween the proverbial rock and a hard place in regards to Marcus. They can not afford him. It is that simple. If they can not get an offer for him, he’s gone. Sad but true. It has to be done, especially because we do have competent players to replace him at reasonable prices. Think Millwood, Dude. I still think he was worth more than Estrada (no matter how good Johnny was and is), but if you can’t pay the guy, what are you gonna do? I would be willing to bet they non-tender Reitsma, too (though not as many will lament his leaving). As long as the financial situation in MLB and with the Braves remains like it is, tough choices will have to be made. The upside of this trade is that it fills immediate and long term needs, with a minimum of financial risk. It gives us a good player for little money and the Braves have the option years to back out of if it doesn’t work. People talk about his proness to injury, but is there any more iffy involved in his health than there is in the eventual development of Salty or Davies? I doubt it, and Baldelli at least has a MLB performance track record (Davies does, too, but not as impressive). Life in MLB is a major gamble these days and the faint of heart sit and watch the others win. Just ask the Pirates GM.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

I’ve been thinking a lot about this deal, and have changed my mind. I don’t think that, as it stands now, this is a good trade for us. As was previously stated, without the blown saves, we would have been right in the division race. Also, as stated, the offense wasn’t a problem last year, and there is no reason it should be this year. We non-tender Giles and play Kelly Johnson at 2nd and leadoff. We let Salty develop in the minors until at least the trade deadline, then we evaluate our needs then. My guess is that with what the DRays will want, either someone is going to overpay severely, or Baldelli will still be on the market at the deadline. Salty’s value is then up, and we know what we will know what the starting pitcher situation is with Davies.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 9, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

I really have doubts about sending Escobar to the Rays but when you look at how good Baldelli is and will be and how cheap he is its a deal you have to make. The one thing the Braves have is depth in the infield. If I were JS I would try offering T. Pena first but I know the Rays probably won’t go for that. The fact is as good as Salty will become he is third on the depth chart at catcher behind McCann and B. Pena who are both studs. If you move him to first, LaRoche is there and will be for the next three or four years. Not to mention Thorman and Jurries, if he gets his act together. Escobar is excellent but Andrus is a better prospect and will definitely be ready by the time Renteria’s contract is up if not after next season, which as I think DOB pointed out would allow the Braves to move Renteria for a big return. Prado, Orr, and Aybar can hold down second even though I think Prado will emerge. Someone, on the previous blog I believe, said Prado didn’t show that he could play at the Major League level. What were they watching? Prado was great in limited play last year. I believe he hit .280 or better, showed a little pop, and flashed that terrific glove of his. I think this guy is the real deal. So, he provides further depth. Yes, Escobar and Salty are a lot to give away but when you look at what the Braves are getting in return I think it is worth it. While Salty and Escobar seem to be can’t miss prospects, you can’t count on that. Betemit, Moss, Charles Thomas, and Capellan were can’t miss prospects as well. Betemit, while he is good, has not become anywhere near the player he was projected to be. Moss and Thomas have disappeared. And, Capellan has been inconsistent at best. The fact is Baldelli is a proven commodoity. Yes, he has been hurt but when he has played he has been excellent. And lets be honest. Are Diaz and Langerhans better options than Baldelli?

I don’t know what the other offers are but I can’t much imagine they are better than this one from the Braves. Now, the only thing that bothers me is that the O’s are in this. They are just stupid enough to send their top three pitching prospects for Baldelli. If that were to be the case, the Rays would take that deal because what they really want is pitching. I am nervous about getting rid of Davies but the rotation is alredy deeper by Hampton coming back and acquiring Baldelli solves the problem of who will replace Andruw when he leaves. And, yes he is leaving. Andruw and Boras have both said that they will take the deal that is most compensating of his skills. Translation is: whomever will give him the most money.

By Adirondackdave

December 9, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

DOB - In all the trades the Braves are considering, it looks to me like it comes down to Talent + Need + ECONOMICS and that Economics trumps all in the present situation.

I’d speculate that this being the case, JS will find a way to get a Baldelli deal will get done because it fills needs with real talent and the immediate and long-term price of this guy is right.

Most likely it will be Salty and Escobar (ouch)and Davies with a 40-man roster pitcher/player or a lower-level minor league prospect coming OR going. This Baldelli deal looks like a deal that needs to get done by both clubs.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

Why are you bringing attention to it…just ignore it…your giving it the reaction it wanted…

By Big Daddy

December 9, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Take a peek into the future. The Braves are likely to have to work within the $80 mil range for some years. NO WAY DOES ANDRUW FIT INTO THAT SITUATION.

Baldelli would give the Braves a very good shot at the division this year and a decent shot at the playoffs. And he would SOLVE their center field problem from 2008 until 2011 and FREE UP about $10 million from what Andruw is NOW BEING PAID.

Think how much good that would do, to have another $10 mil available and your center fielder in place.

So if you were John S. and looking into the future what would you be willing to give in exchange for a shot at the championship in 2007 as well as put you on solid ground in the future with money to pay Francoeur, McCann, James and others as they develop into stars.

And if you were the Tampa Bay GM, and you knew you had an already proved and valuable property in Baldelli just what would you demand in exchange for him? Would you give him up for two unproved prospects? I don’t think I would especially when I had him signed to such a fabulous contract.

If we look at Escobar, Davies and Salty how many of them are likely to develop into top drawer players? Any one is possible but the odds are that if I got one top performer out of the three I’d be doing OK. Salty is far from being ready for the bigs. Davies is hot one day and cold the next and could go either way. And with Escobar no one knows.

Yeah, I’d make the trade (one for three) and roll the dice. And I’m talking about both GM’s. Both will likely benefit and no trade is any good unless it’s good for both parties.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Drew-Kelly Johnson can not throw at full strength yet. How can he make those throws to first? Also, he is just learning to play2B.He is a long term solution, if anything. Look, I think we will be fine if we don’t make this trade-for this year. Baldelli, however, gives us more of a long term fix. Yes, it is possible for Andruw to take a major discount to stay, but most (including DOB) seem to think it improbable. Baldelli gives us options more long term. Davies has shown damn little to this point and has already had a devastating injury. It wasn’t just a groin pull, he tore the damn thing. Now I know Nomar came back from a similar injury, but he doesn’t have a pitcher’s leg kick to worry about.He may never be able to regain his mechanics. Salty MAY be good or he MAY tear himself up and lose value. He certainly did not live up to his billing this season. You, nor anyone else has a clue. Escobar is not a second baseman, is not considered by the Braves to be a 2B option and we have an all star at SS for two more years. One who batted .300 most of the season. We have our own stud prospect in the making for future SS duty, anyway.

By JC FROM UT

December 9, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Potential, that is what the Braves will be giving up. All three players are full of potential. Baldelli is proven. He can hit for average, power and has good speed plus plays defense. The other three have done next to nothing in the big leagues. Everyone keeps returning to a cold rainy night in Boston when Davies really shut the Red Sox down, it was a great performance but remember it was a cold rainy night and Boston was facing a pitcher that they have never seen before. Given the same Boston lineup on a warm day and its Davies second time facing them,I say he doesn’t nake it out of the third inning which would resemble a lot of his starts since that cold rainy night. Again all three players have great potential, so did Brad Komminsk, Mike Kelly, Melvin Nieves,donnie Elliott Bruce Chen and a boat load of other prospects that have never made it. Yes one of these three may make it but that is a chance every GM must take if he wants to contiue providing a winning team year in and year out.

By JCB

December 9, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

**Hey DO’B. I guess you never got around to answering my question. But here it is again. Thanks.

If Giles is non-tendered and he becomes a free agent, will he become a Type A or B type free agent and we get draft picks for him or just a free agent and we get nothing for him if we lose him? Thanks in advance if you answer**

By Salty

December 9, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

CL Good morning…all’s well I trust!

KC Ya stayin’ away from the Seattle forums? They just weren’t capable of digesting any of your best intentions…and you made such a solid case!

I haven’t talked with Escobar…nor Davies, but in all honesty, I don’t want to be traded to the Rays! I like it here in the ATL! Flattering, though! :-)

By Big Daddy

December 9, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

A couple of other thoughts.

Don, you keep threatening to leave the Braves if they make this trade or that trade and you constantly put the slam on management.

Frankly I think you left the Braves a long time ago.

You might help yourself a bit by looking up the definition of “WINNING” when it comes to baseball. Every year there are a number of winning teams among the thirty although there is only one World Series winner.

No way can anyone call the Braves anything but a winning team since Scheurholz and Cox have been here even including the disaster last year when they failed to bring on board a decent closer until it was too late.

People keep talking about Brad Penny. As someone who watched Penny pitch a lot I can report he is one hot headed freak. Forget him; Bobbie Cox would get fed up with his antics in about 10 days and so would the Atlanta fans.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

not the same sda. something fishy here. confuses “lunch” and “dinner” - and where did sda find waiters at mary mac’s? as rosalynn would say, “we have anotha imposta!”

now, baseball … should rocco baldelli become a brave then the loss of the late marshall mann becomes ever more difficult to endure. imagine if you will marshall mann introducing “rrrrooocccco baaaalllldellli.” now, imagine ron gant trying to say, “you know, rocco baldelli”. jimmy smith has only one more reminder - some of you may remember that jeff torborg blamed time hudson’s poor performance last year on a mysterious “red farhead” malady. it is hoped that doctors will have addressed this red farhead issue before spring training. as hudson goes, so goes the team.

By clark

December 9, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Please explain to me why everyone has completly given up on John Thompson.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

JCB-If Giles is non-tendered he will be a free agent and no compensation will be given to the Braves.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Billy(TBFnB)—You’re damned right I brought attention to it!!—DOB has told everyone to ignore me because of certain remarks of mine here in the past, so Damn right! I brought attention to it!! After the treatment that I’ve received from DOB, and some of you other sanctimonious, self-righteous, hypocritical jerks I don’t think that any other “blogger” should be permitted to make statements of the nature of this Larry 8:06 A.M. post either. Furthermore Billy, why didn’t you just mind your own business instead of bringing even more attention to it?? Some people feel the need to stick their noses into every topic discussed on this blog, then when someone calls them out on it they get all disturbed. If I can’t say certain things without being bannished from the entire universe, then neither should anyone else, I don’t care who’s blog it’s supposed to be! And Carolina Lady, for once you’re exactly correct, whoever made that comment should should have their IP address blocked—and when, and if it is blocked you will find that I am still here!!!…and if all of you dislike me, well, frankly I don’t give a damn!!!…

By Lew

December 9, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Big Daddy-I don’t think it would take ten days.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Clark-Because he is apparently going to sign with the Mariners for a lot more money than the Braves have.

By KC

December 9, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Lew: according to DOB’s calculations, they can afford Giles… it just wouldn’t leave them with any wiggle room.

Salty: not point in talking to those Seattle guys.

They’re convinced they’re GM is an idiot, and that Ramirez isn’t worth his weight in salt. One guy there told me that Ramirez “has no talent”. Pretty bold statement considering this guy’s never actually seen him pitch.

Worst of all, they’ve taken ESPN/Keith Law’s mention that Ramirez was about to be non-tendered by the Braves had he not been traded, as gospel truth. I still say that report is asinine, but they won’t even consider the possibility that not everything’s that reported in the media is true… especially in this case.

If Ramirez stays healthy, I believe they’re going to be very happy to have him. My guess is that by the all-start break, they’re going to have to eat their words, at which time I will pop back in for a friendly “I told ya so”.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Lew, I know that Kelly Johnson isn’t at full strength yet, but he would be better suited making throws from second to first than left field to home. I know that if the season started now, Johnson wouldn’t be the starter. I’m just saying that he is the best option that we have once he is healthy. Prado will probably start the season, but will be disappointing and someone else will step in. I understand most of your points, though I doubt Salty will lose more value. I just don’t think that this deal makes sense as the roster currently stands. I think some other decisions need to be made before we pull the trigger on this one.

By Big Daddy

December 9, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

“By clark

Please explain to me why everyone has completly given up on John Thompson.”

Are you serious? It’s called lack of performance and money. And I am assuming you are talking about John Thomson, not Thompson. Incidentally he has not been offered a contract by any other team even though he has said he’ll be happy to work from the pen.

By flange1

December 9, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Good morning All,

I think this is a deal we need to make. I agree it is expensive, but the DEAL that Rocco has makes him even more attractive. Yes he has a history of injury, but so does Davies…We will miss the pitcher, but I agree with Lew, Villareal or Cormier (and Yates for that matter)have a large upside as well. Both are 1 year past injury and should be ready to contribute in 2007.

Wish we could get something for Giles, but I think that other GM’s know the story and will wait for the non-tender and get him for nothing. Maybe we should look at other potential non-tenders and see if a deal could happen.

On LaRoache, with his new medication, he has been a different player. I think his upside is huge. I remember the spring after his rookie season, Peter Gammons listed him as one of the young players that would have breakout years. Peter was off a year. I would like to keep him and be able to build around LaRoache, Frnchy, McCann and Baldelli.

Thanks for the blog DOB! Lots of us fans read it 2-3 times a day even if we don’t post daily.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

Well-Like I said yesterday. No matter which direction JS goes, he will be criticized by both sides. If he trades prospects, he will be accused of mortgaing the future. If he holds his cards, he will be criticized for not filling leadoff hitter and outfield needs. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. If he gives up Salty, Don will take his ball and go home, never to return (is this a bad thing?). If he doesn’t he will be blasted for not caring if the Braves win and doing nothing to address our needs. He will be accused of being a lousy GM. No win situation, as far as I can tell.

By Alan

December 9, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Lew, I said there “appears to be no sense of urgency” with Giles. Why? Because we never see his name anywhere except the aborted trade with the Orioles. That, by the way, was not as one-sided as DOB stated because - as some astute observer noted a while ago - the Braves would have received Roberts, who’s a very good leadoff man, and a top, young (22, just like Davies) pitching prospect in Penn, essentially for LaRoche - because it appears (there’s that word again) the Braves are going to let Giles walk - after having not made that trade. If they had made that trade, they’d have their leadoff hitter (Roberts) and they’d have saved some money. Granted, they’d have lost LaRoche, who I like a lot, but he’s going to make something like 3M in ‘07. How about Marcus to the Reds for Ryan Freel? Or, better yet, for Brandon Phillips (an Atlanta native, correct?)? Back to Baldelli for a second. I’d love to have him - he’s just not worth all 3 of those young guys - they’re not all going to be busts like Nieves and Elliott and Meyer - they all have a chance to be very good players. Pitching-wise, I don’t see how the Braves can follow-up the Ramirez trade with letting go another ML-ready starter in Davies. It doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe they’re planning to bring back John Thomson. Or, more likely, make another trade. I just don’t like trading away so many good, young prospects - mortgaging the future, as others have said. But as DOB says, that’s why we’re all here and JS is in the GM’s chair. I trust him, but I’m plenty nervous these days. For now, though, Christmas shopping beckons - I’ll check in later.

By clark

December 9, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

can someone please explain to me why everyone has given up on John Thomson?

By Anonymous

December 9, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

As was said long before,the braves were proposing to trade Salty or Escobar and Davies. I think that the braves should complete this trade to upgrade their offense in the future. Yes they were ranked second in the NL last year, but when andrew leaves at the end of this season, where is your offense going to come from? Personally, I believe Davies will be great this year and although he had a groin injury,(the same one as roy oswalt) he will bounce back. Instead of Davies in a deal, I would place a deal with Salty or Escobar(Andrus is next in line for SS), Langerhans, Giles, and Lerew for Baldelli and lefty reliever jon switzer. This deal would also give the braves the lefty reliever they want.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

in 1992, famous catcher greg olson, in 1990 an all-star, took a throw from right field just as ken caminiti was barreling into home - there was a terrible collision - oh, the humanity! and greg olson’s career was ended. this journalist sat in an absolutely silent stadium while doctors attended to greg olson. the next day, the braves required a new catcher - of course, they had berryhill - also javy, cabrera, willard, and bobby dews. this is said only to remind all that depth at every position is needed. at the beginning of last season there was no depth at first base. intead, the team broke camp with presence. should a catcher go down … let’s not even think about it.

By morris

December 9, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

I know this off the subject but the more I think about this liberty media deal the more I want to vommit. Major League Baseball is run by a bunch of pussies for allowing this deal to go forward. Liberty Media and Time Warner have openly admitted that this deal is all about tax advantages. Otherwise liberty media could care less about the braves. We will never return to prominence until we have an owner with local interest, who’s desire is to see the braves succeed. We have all cursed time warner for the 80 million dollar payroll, but what if liberty makes us have a florida marlins like firesale. After all were just a tax asset to a big corporation who will look to dump us in five years. Bud Selig you are a big coward with no balls for allowing the Braves to become some big corproate tax swap when there were sincere local owners who desperately wanted the team. I hope this deal somehow falls through and a local interest can take hold of this team again.

By Shaun Payne

December 9, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Something interesting courtesy of BaseballReference.com, the 10 most similar players to Baldelli through age 24:

1. Gary Matthews (969)

2. Ellis Burks (968)

3. Carlos Beltran (965)

4. Garry Maddox (962)

5. Vernon Wells (954)

6. Augie Galan (953)

7. Bruce Campbell (953)

8. Juan Encarnacion (950)

9. Vic Wertz (949)

10. Steve Kemp (948)

Pretty good list, especially the top 5. According to espn.com, the Rays want pitchers and the Orioles have a lot of young pitching that they may be willing to give up. And the D-Rays aren’t going to move him unless they get exactly what they want. I just don’t if the Braves are willing to give up the quantity or quality of young pitching the Rays might want. Maybe they would take less since the Braves would likely give up a young switch-hitting catcher who is likely to be as valuable as Baldelli within 3 years.

By Shaun Payne

December 9, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Lew,

I’m sure Schueholz is used to it. That’s the nature of being the GM of a major pro sports franchise. I think most intelligent baseball people and fans know that Schuerholz is a great GM no matter what happens in a particular situation.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

…and jimmy jerk smith should be damn near expert when it comes to being an imposter!…

By Big Daddy

December 9, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Here is all I can find on the non-tender player. It says nothing about the team who non-tendered getting anything in return. I’m betting he is a total FREE agent.

“Non-Tender” From Brad Marchand, Your Guide to Baseball. Definition: Players with more than three, but fewer than six, years service time (who, therefore, are eligible for arbitration but cannot be free agents automatically when their contract is up) must be offered a contract by an established date in December. They don’t have to sign it, but they must be offered a contract. If they are, they remain property of the offering team. If they are not, they become a “non-tender” free agent and are free to sign with any team, including the team that did not offer a contract. Essentially, this deadline is for clubs to maintain their exclusive right to the player.

Rarely are star young players non-tendered. Teams would never want to risk losing them to the open market. Borderline players and young players who are due to make more money than their team deems they are worth are the most likely candidates to be non-tendered.

By Shaun Payne

December 9, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

You have to like the Braves chances since they would give up Saltalamacchia. The Braves don’t have the pitching the Rays probably will want, but no one else has a player that is as likely to become a star like Saltalamacchia. Remember, Saltalamacchia was the 18th best prospect in the game in 2006 according to Baseball America, and they have done an excellent job at projecting who will be successful.

By Calvin

December 9, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

This is how crazy the market is right now: Marquis gets a 3 yr 28 mil dollar contract from the Cubs after posting an ERA over 6.

By Dane

December 9, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Trade for Baldelli and then trade AJ to the White Sox for one of their pitchers.

By Shoeless Joe

December 9, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Take the Deal One deal usually leads to another deal and JS is no fool. Please don’t just lose Giles?Get something for him from SDP.

By j

December 9, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

DO IT NOW. We need to win this year while we still hava Andruw and somewhat of a productive Chipper when he can stay healthy. Baldeli would fill more than one hole immediatly. With the Bravo’s cutting payroll every year of not increasing we will eventually end up like the Pirates or some sorry team with half the payroll of the Yanks or Sox or Mets and I say half if we are lucky. Baseball needs a salary cap badly to increase competive balance but that is another blog. Any chance we could keep Davies and send them Hudson and Giles. Just a thought that would slash payroll to after another player and keep or young rotation in tact. Just a thought.

After saying that I do also believe that Hudson will have a great year this season whatever team he is with. He is just to good to keep puttting up mediocore numbers.

Man we miss Leo.

By Rosalynn

December 9, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

That Stinka Donka boy has exhibited a tempa! If Stinka Donka can’t be a racis’ noboda can. That boy is cryin’ out for some attention and noboda heah seems to caah. Puhaps that boy should refoahm and become a betta puhson and then - nah, nobody would caah.

Jimma and I just got through playin’ submahreen commanda a-gain. That Jimma would pla that game ovah and ovah if I would let him. Fiah one! Fiah two! Tuhnabout! Full steam ahead!

This Rocco Baldelli trade has me nuhvus. I rememba the I-talian Ambassada would come to the White House and would always be wantin’ to pinch on me. I think this is somethin’ I-talian ballplayahs may do, too. Can you imagine if Rocco wuh to pinch Ehan Andrews duhin’ an intahview? Or maybe Wicky duhin’ a showa? That might be the last time we see Mistah Baldelli a-live.

Jimma says the Braves must be plannin’ to get some moah pitchin’ somewhea. I suah hope mah Jimma is right. He has not had a good week.

By beachcomber

December 9, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

DOB - Another great post. If you believe the Tampa Bay media, the Braves are the front runners for Baldelli (with others in the mix). Living here have watched him play - some compare him to DiMaggio. He is graceful in the field, good stroke but has proven to be awfully fragile. A package that includes Davies, maybe. James should be a deal killer. It does make a great deal of sense having a centerfielder in waiting for the inevitable next year.

By Jason

December 9, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Although I believe that McCann is more than capable of handeling the cathching duties for 5 or 6 years and we do have Renteria at short for 2 more years and even after that have Andrus waiting for a shot and could live without Davies, i dont like the trade at all. This guy has never been healthy; do we forget that??? And even if he were healthy, is he really worth all that? he is fairly young at 25, but could be like JD Drew. he is really good but is constently out with petty injuries. I think we could include any of the above and get a better prospect. What about Cameron Maybin or Hunter Pence or Matt Kemp? Even Jacob Ellsbury in Boston? All these guys will be stars and could be had for less than what we would give for Baldelli. We need outfielders, but not at the expence of all our other positions.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Would you really want to trade guys like Salty and Davies to get other, lower level, prospects. I think if we are going to trade Salty, we want a solid MLB player, and that is exactly what Baldelli is. I wouldn’t make this deal but I wouldn’t be mad if we did. If we traded Salty and Davies for any of the guys Jason just listed, however, I’d be very angry.

By David

December 9, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

“Laroche is a boat anchor who will never hit in clutch”

Wha? Rochey has a postseason average of .320 and an OBP of .433. He’s been one of our best hitters in the postseason. He has a real knack for locking in at key moments in games.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

TheSouthernJackAss,

Ah, another flame war brought on by SJA and friends….I actually laughed when you said “mind your own business”…that was funny. Tell me, what is my business?

So basically what your telling the blog world is that you don’t really care about the racist comments per say but rather using said comment to ensure fair enforcement of rules….I’m not sure which idea I find more repugnant…the racist comment or your need to defend yourself using the racist comment as an example. This implies the idea of unfair rules is more bothersome the racist comment. You need attention that bad and are you that high upon yourself that you need to use a racist comment to defend your position…why not say the comment is inappropriate? So, you wonder why people don’t l like you this is why…you take a sad and unfortunate incident to further your cause of a mislabeled jackass.

Further, SJA, if you have that much animosity towards DOB and the Brave’s blog nation why not stop contributing and or reading. You can always go to the Official Atlanta Braves website and join that community. But, I’m sure you love the attention as the “bad guy” so instead of joining in a very thoughtful and enjoying baseball discussion you’ve decided it’d be more fun defending yourself via a racist comment. Well have fun….jack a*.

Oh yeah..you do care if we like you or not or you would not attempted to defend yourself.

Then you insult people….you have yet to post something pertaining to Baseball….You should change your moniker to “The instigating Jackass”. That would suit you better.

As always, I will let the other contestant in this flame war have the last word.

By David

December 9, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

I see a lot of comments focusing upon the fact that Baldelli isn’t much of a base stealer. You don’t need to worry about that aspect of his game. He’s faster than Carl Crawford and that is not hyperbole. Baldelli has been clocked in the 3.8 range running to first. That’s Olympic speed. If he ever wanted to steal bases, it wouldn’t be a problem, particularly with the rebuilt ACL now 18 months strong.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

TennPaul asked: “If the Braves do non-tender Giles and he becomes a free agent, and then some other team signes him, would that return a draft pick? I’m assuming Giles is a Type A, but I guess I could be way off on this.”

No, Braves would get nothing if they non-tender him and another team signs him.

By Ron

December 9, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

If we are going to make a deal like that for a Tampa player it should be Crawford. He can hit leadoff, steal a ton of bases, and if need be next year play centerfield when Andruw bolts for bigger money. I think any deal with Tampa should be for Crawford, not for a guy who is always hurt. As for everyones love affair with LaRoache, get over it. He had a good second half, and I am glad for him, but come on, he is not the second coming, He is a fine defensive first baseman, but he is a one skill offensive player. If the ball is not right there, he does not hit it. He is a mistake hitter who pulls the ball too much and strikes out WAY too much. He also takes more third strikes that any other player on the team. He has good power, and in the right setting he may hit 40 homers, but not the grand canyon that is right field at Turner Field. Lets get soemone on this team that can run a little and put some pressure on teams. I remember when Nixon led off, he scared terams to death, and that let the 2, 3 and 4 hitters get better pitches to hit. Furcal at times was that type, we need a guy who can run at the top of the lineup, and Crawford would fit the bill. I think that Tampa is willing to trade Baldelli proves he is probably never going to be totally healthy again.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

akirell, about used vinyl. Don’t know any places online, though I’m sure there are (just try variations of “used vinyl”, “used LPs” or whatever on google).

If you live in Atlanta, Wax n Facts in Little 5 Points and Wuxtry Records near Emory both have tons of vinyl, though Waits stuff isn’t going to last long when it comes in.

Alright, gotta watch this KU game closer. Can’t read posts at same time

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

beachcomber,

those people ever see DiMaggio play? No offense but it was over 5o years since he played his last game. I believe he retired in ‘53. Hard for me or anyone else, for the most part, compare a player as revered and old as Joe D.

By jason

December 9, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

I would trade Salty straight up for any of those guys. Why not? we dont have any major league ready outfielders who are worth anything, and Salty is blocked by McCann and even Brayan Pena is worthy to start for some teams… LaRoche is a lock at first so where is Salty gonna play? Trade form a position of strength to improve a weakness. Escobar is the same thing with Andrus waiting.

By Craig B

December 9, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Anyone else hate the Devil Rays? Why do they always ask for too much when trading? But anyway, some ideas to consider:

• Trading these guys to the A.L., to Tampa no less, will ease the haunting memories if they do become stars

• The Braves will finally have a great leadoff man…the Braves can’t score if no one is on base

• The cash savings just makes sense

Now, with that said I still do not know why the Devil Rays would not be satisfied with just Salty and Davies. They do not really need Escobar, and the Braves will need him at 2nd when they dump giles. Tough decision, but I would say go ahead and take the deal.

By Metropolitan Man

December 9, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Lets see, you guys missed out on Glavine, didn resign D. Ward and still dont have a leadoff hitter. I’m looking forward to 2007 but so far if you look within the division, the METS and Phills are the only teams to make any changes. I’m starting to wonder about the bravos and Nats. The Marlins are well the Marlins. Just curious bravo fans: 1) Are you worried yet? 2) Will attendance go up or down this year. 3) Will Chipper where his boot in spring training, or after the All Star break???

By David

December 9, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

“By clark can someone please explain to me why everyone has given up on John Thomson?”

Clark, Thomson is a free agent who will require a salary beyond what the Braves payroll allows. In addition, he is very close to a deal with Seattle anyway.

By David

December 9, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Shaun Payne, my wife and I were also just looking at that list on baseball reference. The other aspect I found fascinating was the Most Similar by Age trifecta: Tris Speaker, Gary Carter and Carl Yastrzemski.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

Old Timer, you asked: “But isn’t there a rule that a player swapped in the middle of a multi-year contract can void the contract?”

No, he can demand a trade, not void the contract. What player has come to the Braves and would demand a trade after playing for Bobby Cox? not many, and no young player I’ve heard of. Contract terms wouldn’t change, he could just demand a trade after first year of contract.

Under the new labor agreement, that rule is gone. but guys with multi-year deals before rule went into effect are grandfathered in (like Hudson, i.e. the Baltimore scenario I laid out, where I saw no way he’d pitch for Leo more than one season).

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Calvin, as per this post: By Calvin December 9, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this This is how crazy the market is right now: Marquis gets a 3 yr 28 mil dollar contract from the Cubs after posting an ERA over 6.

IT’s OFFICIAL: The Cubs have lost their minds.

By David

December 9, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

“Anyone else hate the Devil Rays? Why do they always ask for too much when trading?”

Because the Mets were idiotic enough to give it to them once with Scott Kazmir, so they know they always hold out hope for similar stupidity from others.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you wrote: “Saltalamacchia was the 18th best prospect in the game in 2006 according to Baseball America, and they have done an excellent job at projecting who will be successful.”

Well, that was before his horrible 2006 season. I’d bet he slips in this year’s rankings, at an age he should be rising.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

We didn’t really need or have money for Glavine. We had no need for Ward, because we already have 2 lefty first basemen, and the rest of our bench is lefties. What we did do is solve our bullpen problem and not lose anything except maybe Giles. That should be good for about 10 more wins. Factor in even a decent year from Hudson and Hampton and minor development of the young players and you have a much better team. I am not worried at all.

By David

December 9, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

“Just curious bravo fans: 1) Are you worried yet?”

No, we just pilfered another team in a trade, thereby securing a bullpen that was already going to be much stronger simply by getting injured guys back. Atlanta lost because of our bullpen last year. Boyer, Soriano and Wickman for a full year turns a weakness into a strength. Why would we feel anything but secure at the moment?

By Josh

December 9, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

If the Braves are going to include Chuck James in the mix, why not add Saltalomachia (SP) and Langerhans and have the trade be this:

Braves Trade: SP Chuck James C Jarrod Saltalamachia LF Ryan Langerhans

Devil Rays Trade: Carl Crawford

Would the Braves even attempt to get Crawford, and would the Rays’ think about trading him?

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

FLANGE1 wrote: “On LaRoache, with his new medication, he has been a different player. I think his upside is huge. I remember the spring after his rookie season, Peter Gammons listed him as one of the young players that would have breakout years. Peter was off a year. I would like to keep him and be able to build around LaRoache, Frnchy, McCann and Baldelli.”

Sounds like a solid plan to me, too. Add Chuck James to that reciple, sprinkle in a Harrison and a Brandon Jones, an Elvis in couple years, a Hawaiian 1B in two years when LaRoche gets real pricey…

ALAN, you’re right about Baltimore trade-and-fell-through not being as one-sided as I implied for one reason: Money. If they non-tender Giles (and the fact they were going to do that deal tells me they planned to non-tender him if they don’t trade him), then basically they’re trading LaRoche for both of those guys, if you get my logic (and the logic you applied, which is correct in that respect. If Giles is going to be let go for nothing, then he’s nothing in that Roberts/Penn deal, from that perspective).

By Drew

December 9, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Chuck James is going nowhere

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

K.C. (I’m answering you because this KU game is being played in K.C.), you wrote:

“Worst of all, they’ve taken ESPN/Keith Law’s mention that Ramirez was about to be non-tendered by the Braves had he not been traded, as gospel truth. I still say that report is asinine, but they won’t even consider the possibility that not everything’s that reported in the media is true… especially in this case”

You’re RIGHT. Every person I’ve talk to, it’s unanimous that Braves WOULD NOT have non-tendered Horacio. No way, most say. Not even discussed.

By MBATL

December 9, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Seems to me the guy to trade is Renteria. I know he’s a ‘good deal’ at $6.3 mil (or something like that) for the next two years, but it’s still a lot of money for a strapped franchise.

My take is that Escobar is (probably) ready to step in and play shortstop, but not 2B. He’s a “mature” 24, has pro experience in Cuba, and led the AZ fall league in batting… it’s time to play him or, as suggested, trade him.

Talk about a guy who’s at peak value; Edgar had a fine year in ‘06 (but did fade down the stretch), and might fetch either a leadoff-type OF or a young SP.

DOB - I read your reply about this yesterday, and understand… that option remains open next year, but his affordable (by today’s standards) contract next year is one year shorter then, so his value is reduced the longer we hold him.

If we trade Escobar for Baldelli, then we’re pretty much locked in with Edgar for a couple of years (which is okay… I don’t dislike Edgar, just think we have a pretty good alternative at less than 1/10th the price); Andrus is a great prospect but he’s a long way from the majors, I think.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

JCB, just saw your question: “**Hey DO’B. I guess you never got around to answering my question. But here it is again…”

Regarding Giles, he’d be a free agent if non-tendered (which I’m fairly certain he will be, non-tendered that is, if not trade by Tuesday. If a free agent via non-tender route, no compensation if another team signs him.)

By Metropolitan Man

December 9, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Love your optimism David, you sound like a true fan. I know usually around this time of year the braves used to have me anxious on how they would upgrade. This year there is no fear and fans of the NL east dont seem to be worrying about the braves. If you guys are just gonna tweak the bullpen and leave the rest, then you will be looking up at the Marlins again. Your mix of vets and youngins is not very balance. You got disgruntled Jones boys,and Hudson. Smoltz is the olny vet who will probally take the youngins under his wing. I just dont see the big boys on the braves stepping up becasue they are a lil miffed at homeboy upstairs.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Adirondackdave writes: “In all the trades the Braves are considering, it looks to me like it comes down to Talent + Need + ECONOMICS and that Economics trumps all in the present situation.”

Yes, except I wouldn’t go so far as to say economics trumps all. But it’s inextricably tied to everything.

By Metropolitan Man

December 9, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

I’m gonna miss H. Ramirez. Good guy. I hope one day he ends up a MET.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I agree with you on this: “Not sure if anyone has noticed Dayton Moore’s workings with KC. Not too impressed with that Meche signing. That deal alone makes me happy he is getting experience with some other team.”

Really like and respect Dayton, but that signing … whew. Not for a team that can’t afford to make mistakes. Seem like exactly the same kind of mistakes they made in past. At least he’s over-spending for pitching, though, unlike previous GM who over-spend on a few position players.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

ALAN, you realize I was being sarcastic about the “cool name,” right? Having fun here, man. Little levity in the long, long week of rumor-chasing and writing.

Your posts are very strong and thoughtful (well, other than giving that throwaway line of mine any second thought whatsoever).

You wrote: “Chances are, a possible Baldelli trade would be related to a move with Giles - and maybe even Andruw - but it still bothers me that there appears to be no sense of urgency with Giles.”

Right about the first part, but absolutely wrote about the second. Do you folks realize, the point we’re trying to make, and that Braves officials will say off the record, is that there is NO MARKET for Giles. None. Nobody wants his salary and would rather wait to see if he’s non-tendered. His performance last year, the nagging injuries, the decline in power … red flags to some. That’s just facts. Sorry, I know that hurts his many fans. But it’s just the way it is. Braves couldn’t find a trade partner and talked to many, many teams.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Are you kidding? Andruw and Chipper disgruntled? That is rediculous. If money was no object, Andruw has said he would like to play for Bobby Cox for his entire career, and I believe Chipper has said the same. That is just an overall rediculous post, which I have come to expect from Mets fans. Don’t go making statements like that when you have no idea what you are talking about.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

By the way, earlier poster gave wrong info on Marquis contract: it’s three years, $20 mill with Cubs. Not $28 mill. And in this market, a veteran in prime of his career getting under $7 mill isn’t good. It’s close to journeyman pay in this market.

Vicente Padilla _ $33 mill for three years. Shoot me.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Metro Dude-Where you been hiding? Are we worried? No, Are you? The Mets still haven’t been able to find a pitching staff. Aren’t you thrilled with the boost Moises and his often injured leg is going to give you? No, Dude, not worried yet. Jacka$$-What’s your problem? Did the chip you’ve been carrying for so long slip and started causing hemmorhoids? Did your mother send you to your room when you were little and you still haven’t gotten over it? Esteemed Journalist-Your catcher’s analogy is a point well taken, but even if McCann went down, we still have Brayan Pena, who is quite good. Besides, Salty wouldn’t even be ready to step in for the next several years. Reports are that he isn’t that great a defensive catcher and his hitting was nothing to write home about last year, either.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Peter, in the wee hours (4 a.m.) you wrote an epic post that included this: “They need to trade Baldelli. Why give up alot for a injured player, and he will be injured while playing with the Braves.”

Baldelli got better and better after returning last summer from his 1-1-2 seasons away for surgery rehab. The so-called “injured player” hit .318 with 16 homers, 4 triples, 12 homers, 34 RBIs and 8 steals (in 9 attempts) in 53 games after July 25.

That must be the kind of injury a lot of players would like to have.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Long-winded O’Brien, you wrote: “D@mn you are longwinded- O’Brien! Here’s an idea, try to make your point using fewer words. It’s like talking to my 5 year old nephew.”

Here’s an idea: Take your short-attention span to MTV Real World or another blog. How’s that, or should I use bold-face like you prefer?

By Metropolitan Man

December 9, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Relax Drew, if you think A. Jones will be playing for B. Cox and not a fat contract, then you are delusional. Chipper is disgrunteld because he cant stay healthy. A. Jones is disgruntled becuase of being put on waivers and they are not dumping payroll in an attempt to keep him like they attempted (if you beleive this) with Glavine. Hudson should be disgruntled if he reads the AJC. Nothing good about him except “hope he rebounds back into form.” So if you think you have a bunch of happy go getters on the braves, wake up. The wheels started falling off with the 1st Dan Kolb trade.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Thecoolest wrote: “We still have Reitsma, don’t we? Perhaps the Rays would be interested. If we can get Soriano for Ramirez, surely there’s a market for an underperforming closer. While we’re at it, throw in Sturtze. I see no intelligent reason to have acquired him anyway.”

Good idea, two relievers coming back from Tommy John surgery. Braves might get Carl Crawford for that stellar package.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

Wait, I was wrong: Reitsma didn’t have T.J. ligament-transplant surgery, just a transposition procedure where they moved the nerve over.

So then, Reitsma/Sturtze package for Crawford, for sure. Good call, Thecoolest.

By Metropolitan Man

December 9, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Whats up Lew? Im not hiding, just enjoying the holidays. I may not respond as often but I still check DOB blog. Heck after last years METS-braves series, I havent stopped. But I’m not worried about our staff this year. With the young and the old, the METS pitching will have something to work with. Your rotation looks good on paper but we know how that goes. Moises is a upgrade from Floyd, better numbers in almost the same amount of games. I will miss Floyd but Alou is almost like having Floyd here. Besides our pen has had a lil renovation too, no bradford, no hernandez, but plenty of Mota.

By crimedogrules

December 9, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

DOB — Nice sarcasm 2:11, you finally feel the Crawford pain like a lot of us.

By beachcomber

December 9, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Just noticed the used vinyl mention on the blog. One of the best resources in the country is right here in my back yard. It’s called Bananas. You can rach them at www.musicfinder.com. And while on the subject, possibly the greatest invention since the transistor sits in my den. It is an Ion turntable that will digitize your vinyl for a CD or your Ipod. My too good to be true wife gave it to me as an early Christmas present. Best of all, you can get it for just a little over $150. Scary but true. I got my on line at Circuit City but Best Buy and a few others have it as well. Best thing since sliced bread - incredible value and quality.

By crimedogrules

December 9, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

DOB does the singing of Mota by the Mets mean that they will have to be a roster spot down at the beginning of the year. I think he got busted on steroids (or some banned substance.) So they will be at 24 for two months?

By Ron Roberts

December 9, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

Alright, I’ve come to the conclusion, after being wishy-washy about the trade idea last night (read my last post in the wee hours of the morning if ya wish), and decided… if they want the deal, I say we take it.

“You play to win the game,” said Herm Edwards, then-NY Jets head coach. If the goal is to win a World Championship, does it matter if the Braves do it next season or in 2009 and/or 2010?

If Baldelli makes this team a World Series threat (and I believe he does), then we should do this. The rotation will be fine, and for crying out loud, if we find ourselves short-handed at that spot, we’re gonna be so loaded with “ready to play now” guys that we can make a move to get a pitcher with relatively inexpensive trade pieces.

If we get Baldelli, we’re set at every position, and if we move Giles, we free up some money to get a durable stop-gap to give us good glove. Baldelli takes care of our lead-off issuea (not that I’m all that concerned about us not having the prototypical leadoff guy, anyhow…didn’t slow the scoring down last year, did it?), and it makes ours the best outfield in the majors. For that matter, aside from whatever we do at 2B, we’d have just about the best set of position players in the majors, as well…

…and our bench gets better, too. Matt Diaz, Ryan Langerhans, Willie Aybar, Scott Thorman, Pete Orr, Brayan Pena… some are worthy of everyday play, and those that aren’t are at least .250 and up hitters with a vaiety of offensive tools, i.e., the long ball or speed.

The rotation (and subsequent bullpen upgrades) make our pitching staff strong and able to withstand the expected injury or DL stint.

I say we go for the trophy in 2007, with the knowledge that if and when we lose Andruw, we don’t take that big a hit from our offense and that the rest of the team’s strengths will overcome that loss. Plus, Schuerholz will have about 415 million at his disposal to go strengthen this team next offseason.

By Bo

December 9, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

DOB Anything to Braves being interested in signing MIGUEL BATISTA are MARK REDMAN? Thanks for info.

By Joe Smoe

December 9, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Now that the bullpen is secured, at least I can watch the end of the game again. It was a gut wrencher after the 7th. I couldn’t stomach to watch. I just feel much better knowing what we take to the 7th will have a chance of being there when I come back from getting a beer from the fridge. The Braves will win 15 more games a year from that alone.

Make the trade for Rocco, his name sounds cooler then the other guys. Salty, Escobar…blah blah. There minor league talent and may never come to pass anyways. If they do, it will be years… from now, if they remain Braves. AJ is gone in a year, secure the spot before the feeding frenzy begins over CF’ers. The semi-decent ones are going for 10 million +. We cant even begin to shop at those prices. Get’er done now.

If we could somehow keep Giles, grab Rocco, then I see World Series. If not, and other things happen, then maybe a run at the Marlins. We will see what happens

I see the Mets way overspending this year, and being over rated(as usual). The Marlins youth movement last year was just starting to show, and this year it will have been enhanced. The owner could start throwing out millions half way through the year, and buy the World Series again. He has done it before, Twice! and its earned him more World Series rings then the Braves have gotten on 6 times the amount of money.

Then again, with a name like Salty. I can just hear that name coming back to sting us. “Like salt in our wounds”.

I still think JS should have grabbed Glavin… Anyways.. I regress.. Yo! Rocco!

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Billy—Which part of my comment had anything whatsoever racist in it? As for your business—it looks as if it’s sticking your nose in everyone elses! Also, it’s not DOB’s blog, it’s AJC’s blog, and if you don’t like my comments you can go to some other site, maybe some pansy-a$s blog or something more suitable to your attitude! Can any of you people speak your own mind on this blog, everyone thinks it’s fashionable to weigh in on TheJackAss—well, at least the TheJackAss has the brass to stand on his own two feet and say exactly what’s on his mind—some of you are like sheep blindly following along sniffing the a$s of the sheep in front of you!…and jimmy jerk that goes for you too…

By beachcomber

December 9, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

Billy - Sorry didn’t mean to offend you or anyone with the Joe D. remark. I didn’t say it but several down here have - and there is a physical resemblence - from the tons of film of Joe D. Admitting my age, I actually did see him play - I was like 6 but have never forgotten the game.

By Ron Roberts

December 9, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

By the way, DOB…

I think it kicks major @ss that you’re here on a Saturday in DECEMBER jawing baseball with the faithful.

Loyalty, bro. Props.

By Metropolitan Man

December 9, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

I see you still have rabble rousers on the blog YOU wrote for the AJC DOB!

By T

December 9, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

I think it’ to much to give up for baldeli… I would do it for Crawford though in a second.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 9, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

One defense arguement I have to the person who wrote about Dayton Moore’s moves so far being unimpressive. Focusing on the Mesche deal. I heard this arguement made on MLB radio, so it’s not mine, but I agree with it: The host reasoned that if Mesche has a good year in 07 the Royal could deal him at the deadline or in the offseason for 2 or 3 good prospects if they don’t want to keep him. Now that the demanding a trade when dealt in a middle of a contract is out of the window they can take advantage of that if they choose to. It’s just a different perspective.

By David

December 9, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

“his year there is no fear and fans of the NL east dont seem to be worrying about the braves. If you guys are just gonna tweak the bullpen and leave the rest, then you will be looking up at the Marlins again.”

With regards to the second part, when were we ever looking up at the Marlins in the standings at the end of a season?

As for the first part, several people who write for my web site are Mets fans. They have grown to fear their team’s offseason moves, because every time the Mets bungle it (and they always do), I get to say my favorite catchphrase: Mets fans crack me up. You’re like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. My wife’s team has the world championship blanket sitting on the bed right now. The Mets…you guys are just keeping our seats warm on the NL East throne. And this isn’t me talking smack with a stranger. It’s a statement of belief based on watching both teams over the past 20 years. Enjoy your one. We’ll take the fifteen.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

beachcomber,

Oh no…none of the sort…just saying…thats cool you’ve seen Joe D.

SJA,

Never said your comment was racist. If that’s all you got out of my post then it is pointless attempting to have a dialogue with me. I knew you would have problems understanding…after all I only described it three different ways. I personally have no problems with you posting (as you probably aware, I normally just ignore you), however, I was merely pointing out why you get criticized on a continuous bases and why you have no credibility.

“Can any of you people speak your own mind on this blog” - SJA

This statement by you shows your total stupidity…IMHO.

I did state what was on my “own mind” and you told me to mind my own business. The nature of this blog, from my perspective, has been a discussion of varying views…not just one…thus that would indicate people speaking their mind. Would it not?

An example would be our Barry Bonds discussion a few days ago…several different views on that.

I must point out that you have yet to speak of any topic relating to the intended purpose of the blog….but what you have done is criticizes and insult others….real classy for someone who is attempting to bring about change….you keep doing it that way and no one will follow you or respect you for that matter…you will remain the jack a* among baseball fans.

Finally, SJA, what do you hope to obtain or get form this blog you hate so much? I am curious…as I have asked Stinky this same question and I never seem to get a response.

By David

December 9, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

We have seen Dayton Moore discussed a couple of times recently. If you want to read an excellent with him from back around the trade deadline, click this [link:]http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/15102717.htm

By Carolina Lady

December 9, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

SJA, what do you think of the Soriano trade? How about Baldelli - is including Davies too much in that trade? What do you think the Braves should do with Giles? Think Andruw will resign with the Braves? What kind of year do you think Hampton will have next year? Was last year LaRoche’s best or is that still to come? Who do you think should be leadoff?

By Shaun Payne

December 9, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

The Braves will finally have a great leadoff man…the Braves can’t score if no one is on base

Craig B,

Again, the Braves scored the second-most runs in the NL with an injured-for-most-of-the-year Marcus Giles hitting leadoff. They did a pretty good job scoring.

Actually Giles posted a fairly respectable .341 OBP. The problem is he says he isn’t comfortable in the leadoff role, not that he did not do an adequate job. You’ve got to figure he’ll probably be healthier next season, so he would be fine in the leadoff role if he would accept it and not make it a distraction.

(To continue rambling…)

Another point about Giles in the leadoff role, how much of him complaining was due to the Braves not winning, which had more to do with the pitching. A lot of people used this line of flawed reasoning:

-The Braves aren’t winning.

-Giles is having a down year in a new role—leadoff hitter.

-One of the primary reasons the Braves aren’t winning is because of Giles.

Well, what they fail to see is that Giles, although he had a subpar year, had a respectable year (.341 OBP in the leadoff role) and was healthy enough to play in the fifth most games. The way a lot of people talk, you would think Giles was the worst hitter on the team.

Look at Giles stats (.262 AVG/.341 OBP/.387 SLG) compared to Francouer’s (.260 AVG/.293 OBP/.449 SLG). Francouer was clearly worse yet Giles gets the criticism because of his injuries, his subpar year and him being outspoken about the leadoff role.

But I would argue that if a team scores the second-most runs in the league, the offense is not the reason they didn’t win. Especially when you consider they allowed the 11th most runs in the league. Sure there are always ways to improve, but the Braves did about everything they could do offensively to give themselves a chance to win.

By Jack

December 9, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

I say pull the trigger on the trade, but that leaves us short of pitching depth. I say if we can get one of Pittsburg’s (or another team with similar talent) young staters and whatever else JS can get, then we may need to trade LaRoche. We then need to keep Giles who would return to a productive hitter in the two hole. Keep in mind Andrew’s huge salary will be gone next year. Does anyone really think ownership would be stupid enough to fire JS if the payroll ended up around $85 mil?

We must have a young gun that can help this year with the potential to be one of our aces in the future.

Thormand’s defense will greatly improve working daily with Hubbard and he has the potential to be an offensive force.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber-If you know about Bananas, you’re from St.Pete or thereabouts. I used to live up at 54th Ave N-my son graduated from NE High two years ahead of Doug Waechter, the Rays (ex) pitcher. Bananas wass good when it was way out 9th Ave,. but I didn’t like it when they split it up and moved towards S. Pasadena. Still, it would be a good vinyl source.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Jack-You need to realize that of the $13.5 million savings on Andruw’s salary, you have to pay Hudson’s $7.5 million increase, increased arbitration on LaRoche, other arbitration raises and an increase for Baldelli. If Andruw leaves and we have Baldelli, Andruw’s salary is a wash.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady

great post…the Dayton…good read

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

Billy you’re absolutely right, any attempt at intelligent dialogue with you is pointless!—and this blog isn’t worth my disdain—I think from now on I’ll just stop by when I feel like taking a good sh it!…You a$sholes act like this is some exclusive, private little club, and members are by here by invitation only. You know that’s a damn good idea, AJC should make this a pay site, then those handful or so of elitist bloggers that spend their every waking hour here will have a nice, quiet place with which to boost their egos, and without all the rabble rousers as Metman says. So little Billy you can just go kiss where I can’t, and I’ll stop by from time to time when I need a good place to take a dump!…and that’s what I hope to obtain from this blog!…now go find someone else to attack!…

By Adirondackdate

December 9, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

T - It will not be Crawford and MAY be Baldelli because of the actual or probable contract costs for the next 5 years. That being said, does anybody out there know the specifics of Crawford’s contract?

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber, strangely enough I was JUST looking at that turntable you’re talking about that burns CDs. I mean, not 5 minutes before I read your post. It’s in the Restoration Hardward catalog, and very affordable even there. Might have to get me one of those….

Ron Roberts, I like your aggressive attitude. I think it mirrors the Braves’ now. They want to win. Now. But it’s not future-be-damned, as the LaRoche/Giles for Roberts/Penn trade would have made clear _ they’d have done that trade in large part for Penn’s future, not his present.

But again, that trade would’ve stunk, in my view.

OK, gotta get out of the house for a while. Carry on. Great discussions, by the way. Hot Stove cranked on a frigid Saturday across most of the country and definitely in the South.

By Calvin

December 9, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Yea. Bad info from ESPN. Still, would you pay a guy nearly 7 mil who just had an ERA of 6.02? I know the Cubs gave Lilly a 40 mil deal and he has a career ERA of 4 and a half. Got to wonder what the mind set is of the Cubs.

By old timer

December 9, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Dave, OK, right, a player can demand a trade if he is traded during a multi-year contract. And I agree that players like to play for Cox. But don’t some use the trade demand as a contract renegotiation ploy?

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Just one more thing. Did you guys happen to see the e-mail that ESPN’s Buster Olney received about Maddux? Here it is:

“I just wanted to respond to a reader comment you published on December 8th. Bob from Chicago doubts how much Greg Maddux helps younger players and pitchers but I have first-hand experience with Maddux as a young pitcher when I was with the Braves organization. I attended spring training with the Braves major league team in 2000, and Maddux was incredibly helpful to me. He took time each day to work with me on throwing a changeup. I literally spent every day for a month being tutored by one of the greatest pitchers in the history of the game and I think Maddux did it because he enjoyed helping a young guy out and enjoyed teaching. Beyond that, he always took moments throughout the day to provide “teaching points” on whatever we were doing, whether it was while we were taking PFP or while we were in the batting cage. He didn’t just share his thoughts with me, but with all of the young pitchers in camp. I think I learned more about baseball in that month I spent with him than in my entire career up to that point. So, I just wanted to say, keep up the “cliche” of Maddux benefitting younger players/pitchers on the staff. Perhaps my experience was unique, but I doubt it. San Diego will reap the benefits of this signing, not just with Maddux’s performance but also the guidance that he will share with their developing staff.”

By Ron Roberts

December 9, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DOB, and my prior post should’ve read that we shed $15 million in salary to give Schuerholz flexibility to upgrade the team in ‘08. Hudson and Hamption’s uptick in cash eats some of that up, but it still gives us some wiggle room, and we don’t lose a MAJOR chunk of offense going from ‘Druw to Baldelli.

Tell ya what, Matt Diaz proved a lot to me, last year, though. I wouldn’t be terribly upset if we lose out on Baldelli and give him a shot at LF everyday. Or heck, if we do get Baldelli, does Diaz have any infield experience? You know, like, at 2B?

By todd long

December 9, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

First of all I am not sure if you really understand how good Brian Roberts is. In that deal you have to ask is Scott Thorman going to be as good as Laroche. Maybe! Also Laroche ended the year with nice numbers but was not consistant and everyone wanted him gone at the break. We hope he will be good but just can’t be sure. Thorman as unreal Jim Thome type potential but then again we do not know if he will reach it. On Baldelli for those who are not aware he is like Francouer almost exactly in his frame and his ability. The difference is he may not have the same arm strength but he should k a bit less and have a higher avg.To have Baldelli and Frankie would be nice to young guys with superstar potential. Davies will never be more than a 4th or 5th starter. There are plenty of guys who can replace Giles. However why not Crawford he is the guy you really want he cant play first or LF.

By Steve

December 9, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Metropolitan Man:

Your Starting Rotation looks a little something like this:

Glavine El Duque Oliver Perez John Maine Mike Pelfrey

Yehhh…..And you want to talk about injuries how about your Pre-Madonna Pedro??? HHAHA Ok you keep dreaming he’ll be back around the All-Star break. Yeh he may come back for a game or so then he’ll get rocked and cry. Literally, the man cries. Theres no crying in baseball!!! So anyway Pedro MIGHT come back, its not guaranteed. Knowing Pedro, he’ll come back and be on and off with injuries the rest of the year putting up mediocre numbers until he eventually shuts it down, lets be realistic buddy. Also yeh the Mets strong point last year was the bullpen. TWO of the Mets best relievers are GONE, that Bradford signing with the O’s musta been a real shot to the balls. ALSO you sound pretty happy you still got Mota atleast…Yeh your boy, the steroid injectin cheater, yeh, hes suspended the 1rst 50 games. So your Muts can lock up cheatin players thats fine but he aint throwin a ball till game 51. Also, yeh great signing with 41 yr old Moises. Just stickin with the trend of developing the East Coast AARP squad. You guys really compete up there with the Giants. So yeah ok, you got Moises and his urinated infested hands out in left for about 100 games for a bundle of cash. Awesome for you guys. I wouldnt be so ecstatic if I were you Metropolitan Man, your team is MUUUUUCH worse then it was last year. PS, I dont think Omars dishin out the 100 Mill for Zito so your gonna get a lower tier pitcher so dont even give the argument your rotation will get much better, because in all reality, it will improve slightly.

Now, are you a little scared, nervous that I exploited your team??

By beachcomber

December 9, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

Lew (fellow Bananas patron) - I’ve never been to the Pasadena location - only the creaky old warehouse on 16th Avenue. My wife only allows one or two trips a year while she visits Haslams. DOB - Don’t let the low price of the Ion turntable scare you, it’s actually a very servicable unit - comes with a neat little program to clean up surface noise etc. Let me know how you like it.

By MizzouGuru

December 9, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

DOB: This is my first post on your blog. The use of internet blogs has really exploded and I think that’s great.

What are your thoughts on what the Braves will do with Reitsma? If he’s healthy, he could probably do a quality job in a non-closer role but he makes a lot of money with the budget the Braves have to work with.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady—as far as the Soriano trade goes it looks as if John Schuerholz got the better of the Mariners on this one, Soriano is rumored to have nasty stuff—Horam was injured too much to really develop into a dependable starter—JS kind of redeemed himself for the Kolb fiasco with this deal. I have to pretty much agree with DOB on Baldelli—he is cheap, he likes to bat leadoff, can play centerfield, and is a proven major leaguer—so no, including Davies would not be too much to offer in my opinion because he is yet to prove himself as a valuable starter at this point—and if Andruw leaves after ‘07, which he most likely will, then having a player like Baldelli will be even more invaluable, and at a good price for the next few years. I think the Braves should non-tender Giles if Baldelli is brought onto the team, if they can’t trade him for bats and balls, his uppercut swing is too conducive to striking out. No, I don’t think Andruw Jones will re-sign with the Braves, with Scott Boras as his agent and considering the outrageous contracts for big money being signed by players of lesser talent the last couple of years, unless the budget is increased, the Braves won’t be able to afford him. I would say that Mike Hampton will have a great year, he’s been working hard, and probably feels somewhat obligated to help the team considering the amount of money paid to him the last couple of years—he is a proven top of the line starter who has won big before—I say he does it again. LaRoche should have his best years ahead of him—great potential, and superb defense—just needs to focus on the game a little more. Leadoff would be Baldelli, if Braves don’t acquire him, I would give Diaz or one of the younger up and coming infielders an opportunity, but my choice would be Baldelli, anyone but Giles. Any more sarcasm, or is that enough?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 9, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, in your mind what are the chances the Braves get this deal done with the Rays? What are the other teams offering and is it even comparable to what the Braves are offering? Are the Rays really so silly as to be stuck on getting James when Davies is available like they were last year when they refused to take B. Pena or Estrada because they wanted McCann?

I have to agree with an earlier post that basically said the D-Rays always shoot for the moon and wind up with nothing. Much like the Pirates. I thought those clowns in Tampa said they wanted to win and that is why they pushed Sweet Lou out the door. They also said that they would spend some money and haven’t. I can’t understand why MLB doesn’t step in and correct siutations like that. Same with this dragging out of the Braves’ sale. The NFL nor NBA would allow such non-sense. I am a firm believer that the NFL went to the Bengals owner and told him to get his act together or sell the team. I find it awful funny that all of a sudden that jerk had a change of perspective and stayed clear of football matters that he had no knowledge of. Look at Angelos in Baltimore. That man has ran that thing into the ground. How is he allowed to own that team. As much as I hate to say it, The Boss would never do crap like that. You can say a lot of things about that man but the one thing you can’t say is that he is not committed to winning. He wants to win at all costs and that is how an owner should be.

By Carolina Lady

December 9, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

No, SJA. I couldn’t remember ever seeing an intelligent baseball discussion from you - and just wondered if you actually knew or cared about anything Braves. Not bad. Not bad at all. :-))

Except for your last 7 words. Which shows again that you cannot respond civilly without injecting angry venom into it. And you wonder why people don’t cotton to you.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

yes, this journalist penciled in matt diaz at second base several weeks ago. oh, the humanity! imagine the sight! of course, we must remember how diaz and jurries hit the ball last spring.

now, jimmy smith has realized what has been wrong all along, to wit: “well, at least the TheJackAss has the brass to stand on his own two feet and say exactly what’s on his mind.” two-footed jackasss? only two feet? how many toes? no wonder the sda is always grumpy. well, as much as jimmy smith enjoys the engaging posts from sda this journalist will have to accept the sda decision to stop by less frequently - seems as if we have heard that one before - but journalist will take sda at sda’s word. sda, if this were a pay site you would no doubt be cut off in short order anyhow so count your blessings. ‘tis the season.

now, lost in all this is the hope for next season of having a player from cairo, georgia - home of the big toe from cairo. should this player possesss just such a big toe the braves will be formidable for years to come. good big toe health promotes outstanding athletic performance. don’t the braves have someone now with a bad big toe? toes are not to be trifled with.

By AdirondackDave

December 9, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

DOB - First a couple comments and then a question. I noticed on one of the sites (think it was Tim Brown on YahooSports) that Littlefield was saying yesterday (Friday) that he was still talking to 3 clubs about a deal and one of them was the Braves. (This was more than a full day after LaRochegate, as some Pirate fans are calling it.) Also, the fans today are writing in the Pitt. Post-Gazette lambasting Littlefield for not getting LaRoche.

Considering the above, wouldn’t it make sense for JS or Frank Wren to re-approach the Pirates with something like this. “Let’clear the air, we can’t do a staight 1-1 deal but we both have needs and we would take Gonzales + Zack (or another young/cheap starter) for LaRoche + negotiable prospects or lessor 40-roster players or conbination thereof? Littlefield might pull the trigger because it bails him out of the tough spot he put himself in (or so his fans think) and meets his club’s needs today and tomorrow.

With the Braves offense, the prospect of Gonzales-Soriano-Wickman turns every game into “you get 6 innings, we get 9!” Looks great to me, especially if we could get Baldelli but even if we can’t it still looks mighty good.

By Carolina Lady

December 9, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

LOL! I noticed the same thing, jjs.

By JCB

December 9, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Thanks again DOB for answering that. Its strange isnt it, how a guy like Giles is on the verge of being none tendered when it was just a few years ago that he was the guy Oakland really wanted in the Hudson deal? I never thought one off year could kill a guys value. This game sure is a doozy. Also, I wonder if the D-rays would really do that trade because its almost essentially Davies for Baldelli straight up, cause you have to figure Escobar and Salty to be at least a few years away from being major league ready. But thats just my opinion. Thanks again. Oh, and I also agree with another blogger that gave you major props for hanging out with us on a cold Saturday afternoon.

By The Stranger

December 9, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

DOB wrote: “…there’s a reason I’m doing what I do and Schuerholz and Co. do what they do.”

Yes, and that is: David O’Brien is a much better writer - just ask Glavine.

By JCB

December 9, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

AdironDack Dave How would Littlefield get the fans back on his side by giving up the best pitcher in the bullpen and a starter who was in the running for rookie of the year a few years back, all for LaRoche and some prospects. Yeah, that would really warm the fans hearts and win them back with a quickness. While we are at it, they should throw in Jason Bay as well. I mean, we need a left fielder right?

By Ron

December 9, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

You almost have me convinced about the so-called injured player(Baldelli) that I was talking about but I still would not give up so much for him. He is an even better player when healthy though. Everybody knows that D-Rays have alot of outfielders and they want to trade Baldelli. Yes I know that their are alot of other teams trying to get Baldelli but the D-Rays organization will try to rob the team that tries to get him. I guarantee that. Dave, I know you remember the trade proposal from Atlanta last year with the D-Rays when they wanted Marte, and McCann for Lugo. At the trade deadline they did not get talent that was half that deal. They were to greedy and that is what they will do this time. Though they do not have to trade Baldelli, they will want to. The Braves should wait it out and hope they get him for less than they want.

By berigan

December 9, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

Wow, these blogs have more posts than the one’s during the season!!! I can’t read them all! Hope springs eternal and all that…..DOB, are you a Evelyn Wood devotee? ;)

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady—I do apologize if your comments toward me were not of a sarcastic nature—you see I’m quite accustomed to that being the case—again I do apologize to you.

By AdirondackDave

December 9, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

DOB - First a couple comments and then a question. I noticed on one of the sites (think it was Tim Brown on YahooSports) that Littlefield was saying yesterday (Friday) that he was still talking to 3 clubs about a deal and one of them was the Braves. (This was more than a full day after LaRochegate, as some Pirate fans are calling it.) Also, the fans today are writing in the Pitt. Post-Gazette lambasting Littlefield for not getting LaRoche.

Considering the above, wouldn’t it make sense for JS or Frank Wren to re-approach the Pirates with something like this. “Let’clear the air, we can’t do a staight 1-1 deal but we both have needs and we would take Gonzales + Zack (or another young/cheap starter) for LaRoche + negotiable prospects or lessor 40-roster players or conbination thereof? Littlefield might pull the trigger because it bails him out of the tough spot he put himself in (or so his fans think) and meets his club’s needs today and tomorrow.

With the Braves offense, the prospect of Gonzales-Soriano-Wickman turns every game into “you get 6 innings, we get 9!” Looks great to me, especially if we could get Baldelli but even if we can’t it still looks mighty good.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 9, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

jimmy smith—if you obtain ownership of the AJC then maybe I’ll take your advice and stay away, until then, oh well…I also find it a bit amusing that you use “journalist” in front of your name, and other people use “Lady” in theirs!…Clear enough for you?…

By AdirondackDave

December 9, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

JCB - I didn’t say Zack, I said Zack or another young/cheap starter. “Was” is your operative word about Zack, some of the bloom is off his rose. Zack is where you start in that discussion, not necessarily where you end up. And by the way, can we have a baseball discussion without sarcasm?

By Carolina Lady

December 9, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

SJA, apology accepted. I had no evil intent.

By Metropolitan Man

December 9, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

No Steve Mets fans arent worried because the braves havent improved much. I’ll take El duque, Glavine, Maine, Perez, Pelfrey, Hubner and a few other under the radar only METS fans know about. What does worry me is the braves fans reaction when a 6-20 month May happens for you guys.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 9, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, spots are hard to change so if it once was and still kinda looks and acts the same as it once did, it usually stil is … and that includes journalists … 100 years from now, we’ll be forgotten but folks will still be talking about the Braves magicial streak, missin’ Miss June and Big John … singing Hank’s songs and longing for some really good cheezy fudge and sousemeat … and I have a hunch that Grinch VI will still be trying to steal the Holiday Season.

Robert will be happy ‘cause Bobby won’t still be managing and folks will still be saying “sometimes the best trades are those you don’t make” … why? ‘Cause the Braves will still be trying to unload Marcus Giles … and because it’s also the truth, plain and simple.

I agree with both the Blog’s First Lady and the Honorable Southern … on a bunch of stuff … but, unfortunately, IPs are no longer tatooed on the forehead … the bad guys use washable ink! Best thing to do is to call Guido, plain and simple.

First David O’B’s “read my lips” … and now the Honorable Southern comes out of the closet and admits that he’s a champion in the fight against Apathy and Amorality! That’s always been been obvious, using my convoluted logic, and I told someone a while back that I thought he was more effective than me in that regard; though neither of our batting averages had anything on Mario Mendosa … that’s the truth but it’s neither plain nor simple!

Matthew, I know that Jimmy’s well known for his excellent scouting reports … but methinks little Walter looks too smart to play 2nd base … no, he’ll probably become our starting ace … why work every day in the week when you can do it one?!

By Dale Murphy's Oil Soap

December 9, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Escobar, Salty and Davies for Rocco?? I love Rocco and would love to see him as a Brave but wouldnt you agree that the Braves need starting pitching above everything else? I’d rather see the Braves approach the Angels with those three in order to get Chone Figgins and Ervin Santana. Then you have a great left fielder in the form of a Diaz/Langerhahns platoon batting eighth, Chone at leadoff (and I know he is no Rocco but I also think he has a decent upside as well) and, most importantly, a great starting pitcher.

And you need to get the new Solomon Burke CD Nashville.

By Calvin

December 9, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Now it is being reported that the Cubs sign Marquis to a 3 year 21 million dollar deal. Either way, still too much for a guy whose career ERA is 4.55 and only 3 games over 500 hundred for his career.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 9, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

JJS - per your earler post today, do I understand that if Rocco plays for the Braves, and opens a deli on the side, it will be named “Baldelli’s Smelly Deli’? Who could resist eating there?

By glorydays

December 9, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

test

By br618

December 9, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

mets fans ought to be concerned because without chipper’s injuries and 29 blown saves last year things would have been different..

By Lew

December 9, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber-Haslam’s is, without a doubt, the best book store I have ever seen. I wish they had a branch in Vermont.

By Matthew

December 9, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

just Bob:

I agree-would be neat if Smoltzy was still around to teach little Walter the slider. That thing is NASTY!

As others have said more eloquently than I, trading for Baldelli would be good if it were Salty OR Escobar, plus Davies. If TB was to throw in a top level prospect, or if the Braves were to take Salty or Escobar off the table, then the deal seemingly would become more equitable. The fact that Baldelli’s contract (if he were not to void it) makes him an even more inviting find.

This has been the most interesting offseason in recent memory for me, and I am genuinely excited about the BRaves retaking their throne, at the top of the baseball world, in 2007.

By glorydays

December 9, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this

we talk about trades which is fun to do, one player for another. My concern is what is the change in ownership going to do to the payroll and JS ability to build a team, and is the proposed new owership influencing us today. I think the answer to that has a lot to do with do we trade our young talent or not today.

By glorydays

December 9, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

DOB what role do you think the proposed new owners are playing today in the direction of the team and does there management style (do you really believe the status quo?) claim impact whether or not we trade our young talent, that is we don’t want to weaken our farm system if we can’t sign the players we trade for (i.e. Drew) PS the JS trade I hate the most is the Tucker for Dye trade, it never made sense to me.

By Steve

December 9, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

I am in complete opposites with the original poster on the Baldelli trade.

Sure he has shown flashes, but I am sick and tired of players who get injured all the time. Baldelli and Giles are twins in that they play the game hard, but miss at or more than half the games they might possibly have played had they stayed healthy. Forget that.

You cannot build a consistent winner with injury prone players. Just look at the Braves of the 90’s and how few players got injured. It was a key piece in developing a winner. If the Braves truly believe Davies will be healthy, a starting pitcher is more valuable than a scrappy, dink hitting outfielder, unless said outfielder is in league with Carl Crawford on the basepaths, and Baldelli is nowhere near that.

As for the trade with Baltimore, the reason the Braves were thinking of making it is that they will not be able to pay for both Giles and LaRoche in the near future. Also, they have Thorman and Salty waiting for a chance at first base. While Salty has not shown much in the minors, Thorman outhit LaRoche easily and shows signs of being a better hitter. More importantly they can afford those two guys.

I personally like LaRoche. I think he is already one of the most complete first baseman in the National League, and is will be perennial .280/40/100 man with Gold Glove defense. That combination is very rare, even at first base. That being said, first base is not a ‘specialty’ position and can more easily be filled than many other positions with quality and saving money.

I totally disagree with the original post, because Penn is a much better prospect than Davies is. Anyone who knows baseball knows that Davies was more of a surprise when he did well at the majors than he was a promising prospect.

By glorydays

December 9, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

Steve, I tend to agree. What has happened to Baldelli to lead us to believe he is no longer injury prone?

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

well, walter looks like walter can play. we’ll let walter tell us where.

sda is feeling frisky today! imagine in one post saying he’ll only stop by the blog occasionally - and not for a very nice purpose. in the next post sda scolds jimmy smith for accepting sda at his word.

some would say everytime sda posts he delivers on his promise to leave a little excrement.

if journalist jimmy smith does buy the ajc, dob will get his column. imagine dob blogging with us today! that is wurlitzer-worthy.

last word to sda: “journalist” may not fit jimmy smith but “lady” fits carolina lady just fine. “jackasss” goes uncontested.

now, baseball … all day this journalist can think of nothing but cheese fudge. how much cheese? what kind of cheese? has flabravesgirl invented the perfect food for journalists?

By Alan

December 9, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Please forgive me if this message gets posted twice - I tried sending it a while ago and it seems to have disappeared in thin air, just like the Braves’ chances of trading M. Giles, apparently. That still bugs the heck out of me, sorry. I can’t - and won’t - believe it until 12:01 a.m. Dec. 13. And I still say the Braves should have made the trade with the Orioles. Yes, they would have lost LaRoche along with Giles, but they would have gained Roberts and a really good young pitcher in Penn and they probably would have been able to re-sign Ward. Then, if they still wanted to pursue Baldelli, they could have offered either Penn or Davies (and obviously kept the other) along with Salty and Escobar (although I wouldn’t include Yunel if I could help it). Adding Roberts and Baldelli would really infuse a lot of speed into the Braves’ lineup.

Speaking of Baldelli, David, of course I know you were kidding when you referred to his cool name - which it is. Imagine if he were traded to the Yankees or the Phillies with the enormous Italian-American populations in NY and Phila. Rocco Baldelli/Rocky Balboa - are you kidding me? The Phanatics would love him - so long as he hit .350, never got caught stealing, and never missed the cutoff man. I’d love him, too, frankly - because I’m an Italian-American myself, and I still haven’t gotten over the loss of Tony Graffanino.

By Peezee

December 9, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

How about Andruw to the Sox for McCarthy and prospect, then turn around and trade Salty and McCarthy to the Rays for Baldelli, and free up some cash expense this year to sign another mid-impact player for left, and basically get some value out of Andruw before he is gone.

By Drew

December 9, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

There is no way the Sox are going to trade McCarthy. They just sent out Garcia to make room for him in the rotation.

By Steve-O

December 9, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

Met Man,

It was a 6-20 June….And mainly because Jorge Sosa was our closer with Ken Ray setting up. If you didnt realize Sosa is not in baseball and Ray is a Royal. If you also didnt notice we got Soriano and Wickman now. Also I didnt see you defending any of the 9 things I exploited your team on. Yeh El Duque 42 with a 5.00 ERA and Oliver Perez who was what 5-17? Nice 2-3 punch after 40 year old Glavine eeks out a 3.80+ ERA as the Mets “ACE”. Good luck chump, just do us all a favor and show up here when your team doesnt win dont go hiding.

By Steve-O

December 9, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

PeeZee Ive been on this blog for ages and you win the Golden Token for dumbest trade proposal on this blog.

By Carolina Lady

December 9, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Cheese fudge. Now there is absolutely no doubt that this lady will never be a journalist.

In fact, I am not sure I will ever be able to enjoy fudge again. A mixed blessing that! :-)))

By Tonight on TBS

December 9, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

Scoop (2006)

An intrepid baseball journalist, Dave O’Brien (Hugh Jackman), travels to Orlando, Florida for the baseball meetings. During an excursion to Epcot center, he is contacted by the spirit of Red Barber (Woody Allen) who reveals that Braves GM John Scarecrow (Ian McShane) is actually the “baseball card” serial killer. With kooky Magic Kingdom “cast member” Sondra Pransky (Scarlett Johansson) in tow, Dave attempts to discover the truth. Can he stop the “baseball card” killer before he completely dismantles Atlanta’s once great baseball team? And will he post the details on his blog? (Screwball Comedy, 96 mins).

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 9, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

glorydays, you know it is … directly or indirectly … a lot can be said about what hasn’t been said. I’d bet all my stock in the “Tucker” that Braves’ top management has been well briefed, more than once. Don’t laugh too loudly, that was a neat car … and the stock, well … let’s just say that it will probably be worth as much as stock in the Cubs before too long!

If I were joining the Cubs, I’d want a front-end loaded contract.

Matthew, my apologies to little Walter … I had an “in” in that earlier last line … I know I did! Don’t you worry … Smoltz will still be with the Braves when Walter gets his turn … wants to become the hitting coach; plain and simple!

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 9, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this

find someone else to attack!… SJA,

“Isn’t worth my disdain”

Well we all know this is not true, just by your actions thus far and I bet in the future as well.

“Now go find someone else to attack!”

Why? You make it too easy.

Billy you’re absolutely right, any attempt at intelligent dialogue with you is pointless!—

Yet you still do it….shows what kind of idiot you are.

This one is the topper. she politely attempts to change the subject then you mocked her…..…you’re one of the biggest attention whores I’ve ever encountered on the internet…obviously you do this on purpose to get reactions…that’s the real objective you have on the blog…and it works…just too bad you cant admit it.

Again too easy

You write this

“and this blog isn’t worth my disdain—I think from now on I’ll just stop by when I feel like taking a good sh it!”

Wow, considering how many times you’ve posted you must be full of crap.

Again too easy.

By Ripme

December 9, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

Why don’t the Braves go after ALEX RIOS from Blue Jays. 302 aver. 17 hrs. 82 rbi. 15 sb. young 25 from Enterprise Ala. Cheap salary. Looks like JS could wheel and deal with them without giving up 3 or 4 players.

By Big Daddy

December 9, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

Let’s say the Braves keep Salty, Escobar and Davies.

It is now one year later. Andruw has been paid $150 mullion for 7 years from the Yankees or the Red Sox.

Salty has had another mediocre year in the minors and is still a catcher anyway. He is not capable of playing first even if he was hitting well which he has not proved he can do yet at the pro level.

Escobar has made progress but we have a good shortstop at least for another year. He will get one more year at Richmond.

Davies was an absolute bust as a starter in Richmond in 2007 and the Braves are considering switching him to relief.

How do you fill your centerfield spot for 2008? Oh, you will move Frenchy over there. OK, who plays RF and who plays LF? There you have it, no one with experience in CF and openings at both outfield corners.

Baldelli solves the problem in 2007 and puts the lid on any crisis in 2008. I’d make that trade in a heartbeat. No questions asked.

By David-ATL14

December 9, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this

DOB you can check to verify, but I beleve that Badelli would have to have 5 years service time in, to exercise the right to demand a trade, from the traded during a multiyear player cause.

Though i do agree with ypur point about most players wanting to remain and play for BC.

By Adirondackdave

December 9, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

Big Daddy - I was getting nervious about this trade until I read your scenario. Thanks, I’m back onboard.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 9, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

My Lady, I’m going to make fudge … and it ain’t going to have no cheese or marshmellows in it neither! It’s about the only cooking I successfully learned from Mama … our family has an annual competition each Christmas … sorry, holiday season, and I always, always win! Unfortunately, they rarely admit it … poor losers … only thing I hate worse is a poor winner.

The proof of the fudge is in the eating … and mine is always the first to disappear. I know that the Grinch will say it’s probably the proof in the fudge that makes it a winner but it’s really the fresh pecans.

Timing is everything … I saw GloryDays’ 6:18 post and wrote my previous response … with the “Tucker” reference … never saw his 6:25 … that’s the truth!

By Richard Cory

December 9, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Rocco Baldelli another DiMaggio?? Some who have seen him play compare him to the Yankee Clipper? Reminds me of when Ty Cobb was asked in 1969 what he thought he would hit if were playing ‘today”. Cobb never hesitating replied .320. The reporter taken somewhat aback says ” do I have this straight? The man who had the highest average not only for a season, but for his career, and is generally considered to be the greatest hitter of all time, believes that today he could hit only .320?” Cobb looked him coldly straight in the eye’s and snarled, ” hell yes man, but I’m 76 f——— years old”. Joe D. retired in 51 and still being deceased, I would expect more out of Rocco.

By consider the source

December 9, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

hmmm - seems like this blog is packed with fudge references tonight.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

psst. carolina lady - the cheese fudge is from flabravesgirl. careful.

By Lew

December 9, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

Big Daddy-You said it as well as it can be said. Ma’am-If you use cream cheese in your fudge, I bet it would be real good.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 9, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

go ahead, have your fun with cheese fudge … flabravesgirl will be here soon and you will have to explain to her. now, all journalists will understand the attraction of cheese and fudge together. flabravesgirl, is the cheese added to the fudge or the fudge added to the cheese? at what temperature? is this a rabun county thing?

By mike

December 9, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

Hey Beltran… Go sit down.

I heard that fool is STILL standing there with his bat on his shoulders.

By Milt

December 9, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

What is all the fuss over Davies. He gets jacked almost every time he takes the mound. His stuf is not over powering and I don’t think he will ever be more that a 5th starter. While I don’t like the idea of giving all 3 of those guys for Baldelli, I do like the framework of the trade. In it’s current state TB would have to throw in a minor league prospect or maybe 2. But I say trade Davies and trade him fast while he still has some value.

By jimmy smith grandma

December 9, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

fudge pie recipe

1 cup crisco 2 cups fudge
2 eggs 1 tsp. cumin pastry shell

grease bowl liberally with crisco, pack in the fudge, beat eggs until very well mixed, add cumin, pour everything into steaming pie shell, allow to set, serve with whipped cream, enjoy like jimmy smith when he was boy!

By Carolina Lady

December 9, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Lew, cream cheese might work, but the thought of any other cheese……

Now, Jimmy. FBG is a superb cook and baker and anything from her kitchen would be delectable. And I am certain that she would never put yellow che … chee … can’t say it …. that stuff in her fudge. Chocolate and Velveeta…. no, don’t think so… :-))

I don’t think that would even pass the Wickman/Paronto test!

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 9, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Well said Billy, but what would Harry be without Lord Voldemort? I don’t know either son, but one thing’s for sure … JK, unfortunately unrelated to our HK, wouldn’t be quite so rich!

Good Night Gracie … good night all!

By Tomahawkin

December 9, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

Thanx 4 da the 411 D.O.B.

people are also talking on the philly.com forum…

Ok, gotta go get on dat drank…Its party time ese…

By Rosalynn

December 9, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

Well, Jimma Smith, not to worra. Mah Jimma had the Secret Service on top-a that boy that time. I think we know who he is and wheah he resides. We’ll feed him some of his own pie! Now, you rest easy tonight and don’ worrry ‘bout the stinka Donka bloggin’ about you anymoah.

By Bobby

December 9, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this

No way is Rocco worth Salty, Escobar, and Davies. After all, I like Diaz in LF. In fact, Diaz has a higher career AVG(.305vs.289), OBP(.348vs.329), SLG(.452vs.451), OPS(.800vs.780) than Rocco.

More energy/time should be spent trying to salvage something for Giles or creating payroll space to keep Giles. Rocco deal provides no payroll flexibility.

Regarding Baltimore deal, on surface not great but at least we would have leadoff hitter and payroll flexibility. Actually, a deal for Rocco (offering less than reported of course) would make more sense after trading LaRoche (then Diaz/Thorman could man 1B).

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 9, 2006 09:09 PM | Link to this

Ripme, I thought about Alex Rios as well. He has good speed and can hit. He did a little damage against the Braves when the Blue Jays were in Atlanta this past season. I don’t know the Jays would want to make that deal with the prospect of Vernon Wells getting traded or at the very least leaving via free agency after 2007. However, the Jays did nothing at the winter meetings and have two gaping holes in their rotation with no conceivable options to fill them. They may be willing to listen to an offer. I don’t think the Braves would have to offer all three guys. I think a deal with Escobar, Langerhans/Diaz, and Davies would get it done. Ask the Jays to throw in a prospect and a deal could be struck. The Jays are desperate and as it stands right now they don’t have a snoball’s chance of competing with the Yanks and Red Sox. Even the O’s are shaping up to be a better team than them. You very well could be on to something.

By Greg in TN

December 9, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

Hi folks,

Looks like I missed all the fun earlier…

Lew, great posts and I loved the Brian Asselstine reference. Between that and JJS bringing up Marshall Mann, felt really nostalgic.

As far as the trade as relayed by DOB, I’m okay with it. We might get a break and be able to deal Salty or Escobar and Davies and get Baldelli. We need to start getting plan B in place after AJ decides what he wants to do after next year.

Hey DOB, have the Braves announced when pitchers and catchers will report to Disney for Spring Training, and do you know if Roger McDowell will have the annual pitchers training session in Atlanta prior to spring training (formerly known as Camp Leo)?

By peezee

December 9, 2006 09:11 PM | Link to this

Great job Big Daddy. I like your idea and thinking also.Steve-O believes that my idea of trading Andruw to the WhiteSox(Whom by the way WANT him). trade Andruw for McCarthy and a prospect, then turn around and trade McCarthy to the Rays along with Salty or Escobar for Baldelli, we would basically get value out of Jones in which we won’t get when he leaves via free agency, and we get the player we want and free up some spending cash. tell me Steve-O, how is that the dumbest trade blog you have ever seen. Are you the REAL Steve-O? If so, it goes to figure in your thinking. Am I saying the trade will happen? NO! But it is an idea that makes since for all involved, because a third team IS going to have to come into play for any trade with the Braves/Rays deal to get done.

By GermanBravesFan

December 9, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

Interesting proposal, I guess, to obtain Baldelli. Given that he is young, affordable and REALLY good, I think the Braves should go for it! We’ll have an excellent rotation (Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson, James, Cormier) and a line-up that could be: Baldelli/Renteria/Jones/Jones/Laroche/Francouer/McCann/Prado(?) I like our chances!!!!

I am also one of the few people who will keep hoping that Andruw, after testing the market, will resign with the Braves (take that, Mr. Boras!). Just make sure Bobby Cox sticks around a few more years!

GO BRAVES!!!

By Salty

December 9, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

Cumin…and fudge…and a cup Crisco? Onset of heart failure how soon after eating…if??? :-)

By Covington,Ga

December 9, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

Why go after Rocca when you can have Carl Crawford….Crawford is a much better player then him….Trading all those players for Rocca would be stupid

By GermanBravesFan

December 9, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

Peezee: Andruw does NOT want to play in cold weather… no way he’ll go to the White Socks! PLUS: HE WILL NOT GO ANYWHERE THIS YEAR!!!! He will play out his contract in Atlanta!

By Salty

December 9, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

DOB While the blog’s slow…on Peter Buck turning 50…yikes! I worked for his dad years ago…before REM hit mainstream big…I had no clue who they were, but Pete was forever making references to songs, lyrics, artists Peter was composing for. Pretty neat at the time, and fun to follow their rise from a different perspective. Pete was a very proud father. Sadly, he died before the band really hit the big time, but I’m sure he knew they were well on the way.

By KazakhstanBravesFan

December 9, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

Is interesting Atlantic Braves trade for Baldeagle. No? Baldeagle is symbol for United States in America. No? Brave indian is political not correct. Baldeagle become new mascot of Atlantic Braves. No? Become Atlantic Baldeagles.

Big fan Atlantic Baldeagles! Beat Double Rays!

By GermanBravesFan

December 9, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Here is what I just read on ESPN.com - by Peter Gammons:

The deal that got the most attention within the industry was Atlanta’s acquisition of Rafael Soriano from Seattle for Horacio Ramirez. “That was a great John Schuerholz deal,” said one general manager. “Unbelievable.”

NICE GOING!!!!

By peezee

December 9, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan I am not saying this will happen, but the Braves have made it no secret that they would like to if possible get some return out of Andruw besides a draft pick, and the teams interested or remotely interested are the Red Sox, White Sox, and the Angels. Andruw has made it clear he DOES not want to play in the cold, but he welcomes the opportunity to play with his former teammate Ozzie Guillen…head coach of the White Sox. I was creating a scenario that I feel would be a beneficial trade idea, not a concrete trade. Also, way to cover you @ss as not to look like you were in agreement with my previous post.

By Thecoolest

December 9, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

DOB’s input on my Sturtze/Reitsma proposal may have even been sarcastic. Fiddlesticks.

Still, the purpose was to reveal two bargaining chips noone else seemed to notice. Will they go crazy over that package? No way, but I’d much rather see those two guys go than Davies. Weren’t we trying to get rid of bad pitchers anyway?

By GermanBravesFan

December 9, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

Peezee: I guess we all hope that Andruw, at the last minute, will walk into JS’s office and negotiates his own deal again! I am still impressed that he did that years ago - shows that he wants to be a Brave!

By GermanBravesFan

December 9, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Thecoolest: maybe we can throw in Albie Lopez - that may get the D-Rays to sign off on the trade!

By Zac

December 9, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

As high as I would be getting Baldelli here, and as confident as I am that he is more on the side of bad luck than injury prone, I still find myself hating the idea of trading salty. I remember watching one of the spring training games last year, where we were either tied or down one, and salty came up and smashed one to win the game in the bottom of the ninth, 2 outs if I recall right. Bobby said after the game “I knew he was gonna hit it” I wonder how many players he has been confident like that in.

By Greg in TN

December 9, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

Trading AJ is not an option according to Bora$. They’ve made that very clear. Personally, I’d rather take my chances that the TW/Liberty deal goes through, Liberty decides to give the payroll a bit of a bump, and JS works out something to keep him without breaking the bank. If we make the deal for Baldelli, we should have a decent plan B in that case.

By TK

December 9, 2006 10:22 PM | Link to this

To much talent for a guy who can’t stay off the DL. No matter how he got them he has had two major injuries! He has yet to play a full season. He has never hit .300 had 20hrs. For that much talent I think you could put up a yard sale sign and get more in return. I also do not think you can give up anymore starting pitching without getting any in return. I did like the idea of checking with the Reds about Brandon Phillips…Giles & Thorman???

By peezee

December 9, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

I definitely do not want to see Andruw leave. I have said he along with Chipper and Smoltz are the Braves most remembered throughout the success the tem has had in this era. I have also publicly said(not that I am any expert) that I felt Andruw would be a Brave for life. Now that he isn’t representing himself as germanBrave fan pointed out and Boras is, and with the amount of money he will be paid(somewhere in the 20-22 mil per yr area), i just don’t see us keeping him. If he wants to stay, fire Boras and negotiate a deal that works for both parties. Like said earlier, if the deal to sale the Braves to the Liberty group, then maybe we have a chance. But as for now, JS in my mind is looking on how to keep this team at a caliber level when/if Andruw leaves. I truly do not expect JS to be around after his contract runs out after this year either, so that is another possibility of losing one of the greatest baseball minds in the last 25 years.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 10:54 PM | Link to this

MizzouGuru, welcome. Regarding Reitsma, they certainly won’t tender him because he’s arbitration eligible and salary would be way more than they would be willing to pay him. But they could negotiate a far lesser salary after he becomes a free agent, if they want him. I don’t get a feeling it’s an important matter to them, however.

By David O'Brien

December 9, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Davle Murphy’s Oil Soap wrote:

“I’d rather see the Braves approach the Angels with those three in order to get Chone Figgins and Ervin Santana.”

Angels made it clear at meetings that Santana’s not available, neither him nor Shields. They won’t trade any of their top pitchers, they said.

Agreed on Soloman Burke’s “Nashville” CD. I’ve got it and it’s great. His last three CDs are phenomenal. Career resurgence in his 60s. Gotta love it.

By AdirondackDave

December 9, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

DOB - The more I think about it, the more Baldelli reminds me of J. D. Drew WITHOUT the attitude negatives! The guy is fast, fine defensive skills, can hit for average and power, and has a hard time playing a full season. Would I take this deal for a 25-year old Drew-clone at a cost of $26M for 5 years? Absolutely!!!

By Ace

December 9, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

DOB - how does the young Elvis look anyway? How might his development influence the Braves willingness to part with Escobar?

What happens to Langerhans and/or Diaz if that deal goes through? Not room on 25 for both. Would one be thrown in that deal or another? Would one be back and forth to Richmond? do either have options?

By Aleem

December 9, 2006 11:15 PM | Link to this

If the Cubs actually sign Cliff Floyd, it looks like Matt Murton would be the odd man out in that outfield (Soriano, Floyd, Jones) unless they are able to unload Jacque Jones. I really think that Murton would be a pretty good fit for us at LF and as the leadoff hitter because he would be even cheaper than Baldelli over the next few years (this was just his second season) and would probably come for much less than Rocco in a trade. He also had an OBP of .365 last year and .385 in his half-year of a rookie season, while also having a decent amount of pop. He’s not the speediest guy, but we don’t really try to steal that many bases anyways.

Also, with the Cubs previous trade netting them Cotts, someone like Will Ohman might be available to be our second lefty out of the pen. I don’t know what the Cubs would want for a trade involving those two, but it does at least look like their excesses match up with some of our deficiencies fairly well. What do you guys think?

By Nelson Hawkins

December 9, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this

That deal, whether it includes James, Davies, etc., is eminently doable (get a third party involved to satisfy everyone, perhaps getting the Orioles to send Penn to Tampa Bay for the Braves sending on Davies and an outfielder like TJ Bohn, Langerhans, or Diaz—the O’s need outfield help). I think the White Sox have a serious case to make if they’re willing to trade from their pitching depth (they could hand off what they got from Philly for Freddy Garcia and be set for next October), but the Angels’ Bill Stoneman absolutely lacks the stomach for the big deal, or so it would appear; their owner doesn’t mind spending money, and prospects are often better than legal tender, so maybe he advises Stoneman a little if he really wants that one more bat. But here’s one more little ripple I’d like to throw in the trade pool: if the Braves were willing to include James in the deal for Baldelli and a prospect, I’d like to see them ask for AA Montgomery’s Evan Longoria (that’s right, just one letter extra than the sultry actress). While visiting Montgomery (my hometown) last summer, I got to see him in action not too long after his callup—he progressed through 3 levels last season (he was the Rays’ top pick in the draft), beginning in rookie ball (1.366 OPS), cruising through A (1.020 OPS), and generally dealing well with the higher competition (.752 OPS, but with solid fielding at the hot corner, and power to spare); Montgomery won the Southern League championship last season with him at 3B—he hit 2 HR in the series’ 4 games. He went from being unranked on minorleaguebaseball.com’s top 50 list (hadn’t been drafted yet) to number 16 in one season, and now that Delmon Young projects to start for the Rays next year, he’s the top prospect on Baseball America’s D-Rays list.

By Brandon

December 9, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

I don’t like it….for Carl Crawford I would, but not Baldelli. No doubt Baldelli is a stud and would fit a need, but not at that price. I’m not sold on Salty, but I do really like Escobar. Davies still could also be very good, plus he is left-handed. The Braves problems last year were not scoring runs. They had a losing record b/c they could not keep teams from scoring. Soriano helps, but is not enough. Final word about this deal….how could the Braves afford it?

On another note, why would the Braves not do everything they can to trade Giles if they plan on non-tendering him? Surely someone wants him…at $5 million he does not have a bad salary.

By mariner

December 9, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

Aleem, I’d take Murton for sure, but if I’m the Cubs I find a spot on the roster for him. No way do I deal him to another team.

By Chopdawg

December 9, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this

Watched Elvis all last season in Rome: he won’t be 20 years old until August 2008. Lots of potential, good speed, maybe not the gap power that Escobar has…they’re both exciting, hustling players but one will be ready much sooner than the other.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 9, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this

JJS - thinking that FBG is giving you a “cheese tease” - outside of CL’s astute observation that perhaps cream cheese may be the “secret ingredient” - I could also see mascarpone, or perhaps fresh ricotta, but if you are salivating over cheddar, gruyere, farmer’s, etc., keep it - unless of course you are talking monterey jack - spicy cheese fudge? Nah, won’t work.

I feel sorry for Marcus Giles. All the guy has done for the past 4 years is bust his but, every day, every play, and has suffered injury from time to time because he won’t back down. He was an all star in 05 (deservedly so), and in 06, due to Furcal leaving, was thrust into the lead off role, one he said from the outset he wasn’t particularly comfortable with. But, he showed up, played hard, and toward the end of the season, was actually improving.

He now finds that because he has had a few good years, and because of budgetary constraints with the Braves, along with an apparent glut of available 2b, he is not attractive to other teams, and is likely to be cut loose by the Braves if a deal can’t be made.

This is ugly, business side of baseball, where loyalty, hard work, etc is definitely not rewarded. Not Giles fault, not the Braves fault (other than the tight fisted, nameless, faceless money men with TW). I wish there were some way we could keep him, but understand business concerns dictate that he will likely leave, unless he agrees to a lot less than he could get in arbitration. I like the guy, and hope he ends up with a good deal wherever he lands.

By flbravesgirl

December 9, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

CL & Bob, I know cheese in fudge sounds weird but it’s really great fudge (and much anticipated by family and friends). jimmy, my grandmother actually got the recipe years ago from someone she knew in Atlanta, hence the name “Atlanta Cheese Fudge”. It’s the perfect food for you. Made peanut butter bonbons today.

I’m so glad we can find so much info on the Braves here and other places online, since my local paper is pitiful. Their (so-called) baseball writer started off his column the other day by saying the Braves approached the Rays about Rocco and offered Chucky. Serious case of wishful thinking.

By JJ

December 9, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

THAT WOULD BE THE WORST TRADE EVER

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Scalp’em, I completely agree with your comments on Marcus. Just ain’t right! I wonder if JS will even attempt to offer a back-loaded contract. Seems like it would be at least worth a try. If you are going to non-tender somebody, I’d think I’d first go through the less important ones to free up money.

By Ripme

December 10, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Robert (Justice is the best) Thanks for info. I agree with you about ALEX RIOS The Braves need to talk with Blue Jays before making Baldelli trade. I also believe AJ will go with the money even if it is cold, he now has a wife to help make up his mind.

By flange1

December 10, 2006 12:06 AM | Link to this

Hi All, TO SALTY,

I knew Peter Buck in Athens when he worked at a record store and the n followed the band onward. He was a great guy and is a great guy. He turned me on to Joe Ely and The Fans and always gave a straight answer to any question. After their first album hit, I was in AThens and having lunch with a friend and Peter joined us and wanted to know our opinion of REM touring with the CLASH. I said GREAT!! Two of my favorites on the same bill…. He said, I don’t know, we kind of want to build our base from OUR work not from touring with someone else. I agreed, and you see what happened. I did not know Mr. Buck, but I know he was (is) proud of his son, who is a great player and a great guy…….

I was real lucky, I was in the right place at the right time and was fortune enough to see REM 400-500 times. They were and are one of the best live acts ever. Yes DOB, I LIVED at 688. Do you know 688?

BASEBALL NOW!!

The more I think about it the better the Rocco trade seems to me. I hate to always agree with Lew, but he has this one nailed again, we have others who can replace Davies (Villareal and Cormier) Davies might not come back from the hamstring tear, Salty is a maybe catcher WAY on down the road, and Esobar MAYBE can play shortstop sometime in the future. MAKE THE TRADE>>>>>>>>>

BLOG

It is real interesting to me the folks that think it is cute/funny/important to come on this blog and spout their negative crap. The blogger who shall not be mentioned (in Harry Potter speak) is a prime example as is the donkey from the south. If you don’t like the Braves, Johnny Cash (or at least Jonny Lang) and some sort of pie, why do you bother wasting your or our time participating in this blog? I love pie (Ugandan pie especially) have a semi toe fetish, and think Braves baseball and good music rule the world….

If you guys don’t, go somewhere else….

By the way IT IS DOB’S BLOG (on the AJC). Their are others if you don’t like it.

By brian

December 10, 2006 12:19 AM | Link to this

As much as I like Baldelli, I still think Davies, Salty, and Escobar is too much to trade away unless something else is in the works - specifically a trade to bring in a top young arm. Whether that is LaRoche (our wish list is Santana although the Angels say he is untouchable) or Andruw Jones (again unless something drastic happens not going to happen).

I think Baldelli would help our team in left field but the only way I see the Braves giving up that much to get him is if they see him as an heir apparent in CF. If the Braves feel like they have to trade for the heir apparent in CF, I do not see why they cannot sit down with Boras and Andruw and air things out candidly. Can we sign him or not? If not, where are AJ’s 5 favorite destinations (LA would give us 2 choices/teams). Then see if the team would be interested in trying to work out an extension with Andruw while also seeing if they could put together a package to compensate the Braves.

ARod has shown how one player’s salary can completely handicapp a team so unless some really deep, free spending pockets buy the Braves (which a corporate only rarely is) the Braves will not sign AJ.

By elbravox

December 10, 2006 12:31 AM | Link to this

Question- When Giles is non-tendered, can he negotiate with the Braves right away or do other teams come first? After all the money being thrown around, he must be shaking his head in disgust. Talking about bad timing for Marcus. Most players would lash out at the Braves-leading off last season will cost him millions! Yet, not a word from him. It is a shame on both ends…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Okay, as much as I love Crawford and want to see him in a Braves’ uniform, it is NOT going to happen. The Rays have made it clear they are not trading him. If they were going to trade him, they would have done it last season when the Angels were willign to give up Santana. The only way the Rays would give the Braves Crawford is if the Braves sent either Francoeur or McCann and James. And since that would be asinine and will never happen he isn’t getting traded.

As for the Angels, I think Escobar, Salty, and Davies could be offered for Figgins, Joe Saunders, and Howie Kendrick. I know some will scoff but Figgins would solve the leadoff problem and Kendrick is going to be a great player. I saw him agaist the White Sox a couple of games last year and the guy can hit and play every position in the infield. He has good speed and is young and cheap. Of course, I don’t know if the Angels would trade him for anything. Saunders would sure fill out the back end of the rotation very nicely. Just a thought.

Andruw isn’t going anywhere either. I think he and Boras have already decided that it is a better calculated risk that he will have the typical walk year in 2007 and get mad paid next offseason. I remember back in July many people on here laughing and ridiculing me for suggesting Andruw could command $17 or $18 mil a year. I won’t name names but you sure as hell know who you are. What do you all have to say now. As of this moment, Andruw would at least get $17. Let him have a .300 45-50HR 145RBI season, which I suspect he will and that $17 mil becomes $20. Guarantee you! Please, don’t be so quick to apologize. The Braves can’t compete with that and he isn’t going to take that big of a paycut to stay with the Braves. That cold weather stuff is a bunch of bs too. I love Andruw but he has been bsing a lot lately. Baseball isn’t played in February. I think he could endure a couple of weeks of cold weather for $19 or $20 mil a year. I’m just guessing. You heard it hear first. Andruw Jones will be the new CF for either the Texas Rangers or the Boston Red Sox. Anyone who doesn’t think the Red Sox will make a big push for Andruw is crazy. Hell, they would take him right now. Let JS call Theo up right now and say, “I tell you what. We’ll give you Andruw if you give us Lester,Hansen, and Wily Mo Pena and guarantee Andruw an extension.” Theo will be all over that. That trade would get done in less than a hour. The only reason Boston balked at giving away Lester last year is because the kid was on fire and their rotation was depleted. They were trying to add a starter so why were they going to give one up. But, now their rotation is fine. They will get that Japanese kid signed no matter what the reports say. C’mon. Lester is expendable now. And Andruw would give his okay to the trade once Boras heard Theo say they will give Andruw a five year extension $90+ mil. The cold weather wouldn’t look so bad then. Please, for all those who really think there is any chance Andruw will stay, spare yourself and come to grips with reality. Unless this absurd sale falls through and Arthur Blank buys the team the Braves will never be able to sign Andruw and keep Hudson and Hampton. It just cannot happen.

Another team JS should contact are the Tigers. They seem to be willing to part with Craig Monroe or Marcus Thames. Monroe is a stud and Thames is a star in the making. I bet the Braves could offer Salty and Escobar and could leave Davies off the table. Monroe could play LF and would provide the power the Braves would need when Andruw is gone.

By Nelson Hawkins

December 10, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

…just a follow-up to my previous post: Longoria makes sense in a trade as he currently projects to be major-league-ready by 2008, and I think 2007 is the year Chipper definitively shows he can’t handle the hot corner any longer (hope I’m wrong, I’m no Chipper-hater). We have nothing on the farm at 3B, and can’t rely on eventually clearing enough payroll to spend in free agency.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 10, 2006 12:42 AM | Link to this

Scalpem, I sorta expect that there’s more to the Marcus thing than meets the eye … maybe it’s just because he likes cheese in his fudge but I expect that it’s more than that … if there’s nothing there … then it simply doesn’t make sense. We may have financial constraints but others like the Cubs, Mets, Red Sox … and how many more … are spending our money like there’s no tomorrow; sometimes on medicore or questionable talent. Still, there doesn’t seem to be much interest in our Mr. Giles.

Maybe it’s in the water … something ain’t right … sulphur water maybe … whatever it is, nobody seems interested in drinking it.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 10, 2006 12:53 AM | Link to this

Billy—you’re a Co cksucker!…

By gotigers72

December 10, 2006 01:11 AM | Link to this

Please, please, please DO NOT MAKE THAT TRADE. The last 3 for 1 JS made was a disaster. Mr. “no honor, no passion for the game” Drew for one year for what basically ended up being Adam Wainwright. I still want to puke when I see the highlights of his stuff this year. All the Rays would have to do is hit on one of the three and they come out ahead, but they’ll probably hit on more than one and that’ll make JS look like a has been.

He may be close to a has been if he was considering that trade with the Orioles, but he doesn’t need to prove it by doing a 3 for 1 for an injury prone LF. Prospects are just that, prospects. Hell, Escobar won the hitting title in the AFL, and I would give Salty another year because I personally think last year was an aberration for him. I hope another club overwhelms the Rays with an offer before they decide to take the 3 for 1 Braves’ offer.

By DAP

December 10, 2006 01:22 AM | Link to this

nobody is ever going to read this…its way to far down on this blog. thats ok, im doing it for me. :-)

i say no to the baldelli trade. i would love to have a great leadoff hitter, but i dont want to lose to great prospects and a starter-no matter who it is- for a guy we dont need. yeah, i said it. we absolutley do not need him.

this trade wont help us down the road or in the present, and ill tell you why.

why didnt the braves make it to the post season this year? it wasnt because of our offense. the braves were in the top 3 in the national league in runs, hits, HR, RBIs, SLG% and AVG. the cardinals, who won the world series by the way, were not in the top 3 in ANY of these categories. The braves were #1 in a few of them.

why we lost is pitching, we ranked 11th with a 4.60 era. the cardinals were only slighty better than us there, but still…thats obviously our weakness. getting two great relievers to pitch at the end of games is gonna shrink that era, and give us alot more wins. with 29 blown saves, if half of those(lets just say 14) were wins, our record would have been 93-69, may have beat the mets for the division (some of those wins may have been against them) and would have without a doubt gotten the wild card.

i say all this to say, if there are no changes at all tot he team, the braves are going to be really good. i think the only thing MAYbe to do is get a leadoff second baseman, because we probably cant afford to keep giles.

we dont need baldelli to play center in ‘08 should andy leave(i hope not), because we have langerhans, who is amazing defensivly, and had a bad year with the bat while suffering through some minor injuries. he is a good hitter, much better than he showed last year, and probably has the speed to lead off?

also, davies might not be that great, but hes better than nothing, which is what we might have next seasin if we lose him and there is an injury. hes good enough to be no. 5.

no way to baldelli. we have what we need in pitching, lets be stingy with our good stuff.

By The Dude

December 10, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this

Rocco would be a great addition to the braves, although Carl Crawford would be even better. However, I don’t think that you can trade all 3 for this guy. Davies and one of the 2 prospects should be plenty for Baldelli. There are plenty of teams that would give up a lot more for those 3 guys.

By darrin

December 10, 2006 01:54 AM | Link to this

Met man go to hell take Glavine and your Mutts with you and stay off the Braves blog now on Baldelli i would not do it If i were the Braves i would drive hard for FIGGINS,SANTANA,AND ADENTHAL for Hudson and laroche.then see what you can get for Salty and Giles packaged together

By Doug

December 10, 2006 02:24 AM | Link to this

Not a lot of words from me this time … I say pull the trigger and make the trade if they can.

By Rob

December 10, 2006 02:30 AM | Link to this

I’m not all that knowledgable about the entire farm system but i did see Salty play a lot in hs and obviously saw Davies when he was with the big boys…and neither of them impresses me…they both seem mentally soft so if they can get Baldelli thats alright with me…but if these guys are so highly regarded we should try to get Matt Kemp he’s an all-star right now if that moron Little would ever give him any playing time

By wowbobwow

December 10, 2006 04:32 AM | Link to this

DOB, you like some pretty great music i’ve noticed. are you familiar with the band centro-matic from denton,texas?

By ncscoots

December 10, 2006 07:00 AM | Link to this

I’m not gonna weigh in on the proposed trade, I’m still on the fence about it. But I’ll address a couple of peripheral issues that have come up in the course of the blog.

“Get Crawford instead, he’s better” - that’s subjective, of course, and everybody on here knows I think highly of Crawford. But Baldelli’s been timed at 3.8 to first and has more sock in his bat. Crawford could hit 1 or 2, Baldelli could conceivably hit 3 if needed. In the Braves scenario, Baldelli is probably the “better player”.

“Throw in Evan Longoria” - the kid is likely one of the most “untouchable” of their prospects. D-Rays still have doubts about Upton and the infield, and Longoria is not only insurance, but even money to play 3B even if Upton is successful.

“Escobar is expendable because of middle infield depth” - Escobar has a LOT more pop in his bat than any other middle infielder in the system, and he has excellent tools. There’s a reason he was highly sought after upon his defection. There may be plenty of good reasons to include him in the trade, but this is not one of them, IMO. He’s the piece I would be most likely to regret including.

“Davies is just a 5th starter” - while that may be true (or not), the Braves must have confidence in SOMEBODY being ready or nearly ready to take that slot to include Davies in the trade. I don’t believe that Cormier is Plan A for the rotation, if the expressed intent is to return to “elite” pitching. While Davies has not yet shown much at the ML level, he grades out high on his minor league numbers, is a 22-year-old with plus pitches. As far as pitching prospects go, he checks all the boxes on the form. While that’s no guarantee of ML success, you can say the same thing about every other minor league pitching prospect extant.

Just some thoughts while I ponder, weak and weary, on this trade’s ramifications.

By Salty

December 10, 2006 08:01 AM | Link to this

Flange1 Very nice post overnight…good memories, and sentiments. You really had a neat perspective. In knowing Peter, I assure you knew his dad as well!

This week, the board is hummed, with a civility and thoughts flow that make DOB’s efforts worthwhile. Then yesterday, the participants and the tone changed dramatically. Not so much fun. By the way, CL, super 3:14 and 4:22 posts…you showed your mettle! Do not mess with a Southern Woman!

I have images of this ‘cyber-coffee klatch’ DOB has created here. There are so many neat personalities. One can hear the loud hum (ok, roar) of conversation, emphatic table-pounding (easy Lew, Grinch, KC, etc.)and raised voices (trade disagreement, Cash or REM or Zeppelin or…?, corn bread… with sugar?, etc.) corners reserved for time out (can’t misbehave in public!).

First hand we learn if JJS talks like he writes, or does Bob, just plain old have to translate for us all!?! And I can talk CUTiger sports with NCScoots! You can smell the coffee, pie, fudge (**FBG’s version!), cheese(?)…and (the best part!) the most eclectic (or was that eclectric?) vinyl-CD-live music and art collection ever assembled! Hmmm…maybe that’s what heaven looks/sounds like!

From your replies, I can tell your patience can be sorely tested, but thanks, DOB, so much for providing this outlet…very well done!

By KC

December 10, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

This isn’t baseball, but I felt compelled to give you my nomination for gayest souding sports quote of the week:

“Brent knows what I like, and I know what he likes” - San Antonio Spurs Guard, Beno Udrih on playing alongside F/G Brent Barry.

Here it is in context…

“Brent knows what I like, and I know what he likes,” Udrih said. “Especially if you find him in rhythm. He’s like, really awesome and knocks all the shots down.”

LOL! Sorry… I just couldn’t resist.

By Lee

December 10, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

Hey, how about Salty for Melky Cabrera? Just read that from some blogger, at least we don’t lose pitching

By Lew

December 10, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

Scoots-Good Morning, Dude-I’m in favor of the trade, but I won’t try anymore to sway you. I just would like to make a point about Cormier and his worth. Last season Davies pitched in 14 games and had an ERA of 8.38. He went 5+innings 3 times. Cormier, on the other hand (or is that the other toe), went 5+innings 12 times with an ERA in those appearances of 2.91. Dude, I think that says it all. Cormier is not only ready and able, I contend that Davies was never even going to be the 5th starter this season, anyway.

By JCB

December 10, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

DAP You say we don’t need Baldelli right? Let me ask you why you would rather have Langerhans in center next year rather than Baldelli? I can give you two reasons as to why we should trade for Rocco, he is a good player and he is cheap for the next 5 years. We need cheap because from what I read on the main page here, Liberty Media doesn’t see us as a big deal, they are more worried about the cash. Besides, we have a good catcher that will be under our control for 4 or 5 more years, you gonna leave Salty down in the minors to rot that long? And we have a good shortstop for the next two years, with Elvis Andrus right behind him, so Escobar is expendable too. Davies, well, we saw what he did after his injury. Baldelli would be a huge upgrade, now, and for the future.

By KC

December 10, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

I would give up Davies, plus EITHER Salty or Escobar, but not both. That’s just too high a price for someone who’s not already a bonafide star.

By Lew

December 10, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Minor ammendment on Cormier-He went 5+ IP SIX times after June 24, not 12, but the ERA was 2.92 in those appearances. Point remains the same. BC also is giving Villarreal a shot a 5th starter, too. Davies is destined for the minors unless he shows something VERY special in Spring Training.

By mariner

December 10, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

I’d do the trade. It does make the major league roster stronger. Escobar and Salty weren’t going to help us this year and Davies is iffy. Still I worry about the 5th starter. I hope Cormier can stick, but I worry he is more of a Travis Smith type, serviceable in the short term. If and when Giles is traded or non-tendered, I hope there is enough money to go after Ohka or Armas. But, if they get Marquis money we’re probably priced out there. They’re back-end rotation guys, but I have more confidence in them than Cormier or Villareal. Long term, I think we’ll be better off if we can move Soriano to the rotation in 2008. I have confidence that Renteria will play well for two years and that Andrus will be ready when Edgar’s contract is up.

By ernesto

December 10, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

What we’re offering for Baldelli is pretty steep (how steep is debatable I know, but to my thinking STEEP!) so I have mixed feelings. One thing that is positive though is we’d be getting someone we can keep for 4 or 5 years or more. It would be nice to have some guys you could get to know, guys who could become a Brave, rather than the 1 or 2 year Rent-a-stud method we’ve been employing (see: Sheff, Drew, Lofton et al.)

By br618

December 10, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

they say that a switch hitting catcher with power is rarer than switch hitting firstbaseman with power, but i can’t think of any first baseman…maybe the braves do need to keep salty

By Jeff

December 10, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Sorry, but the Baldelli for Salty and Escobar trade possibility—and, perhaps, Davies—is short sighted and does nothing to shore up pitching, which Braves managment claims is its priority. The only way the deal makes sense is if management believes it can move Andruw Jones for pitching this winter or spring. If management has no further moves in mind, then this is another J.D. Drew type deal, only this time the Braves surrender three top prospects—for an outfielder, no less.

That’s disappointing, because building through the farm system is the ticket to long term success. Probably because of coroporate pressure, Schuerholz is being forced to field a “winner” next season no matter the consequences to the team’s long term prospects. All of us may be disappointed the Braves didn’t win a couple of more World Series during their run, but 14 division titles, 4 pennants and 1 championship is nothing to sneeze at.

It won’t happen again, not even close, if management buys into the Baby Boomer “we got have it now mentality, the future be damned.

By Lew

December 10, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Mariner-The Braves have no intention of moving Soriano to the rotation. He will become closer when Wicky retires. Matt Harrison, a stud LHP with a 5-1 K to BB ratio is several months from being MLB ready. He may be available by August.

By mariner

December 10, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

I was sorry to see Russ Springer sign such a modest contract with the Cardinals. Would have been a good pick up for the Braves. It looks like the Mets are going to show Darren Oliver the door for some reason. They may sign him still, but it doesn’t look like there is much interest. He’d be a terrific LH addition to the bullpen, which I think could still use some beefing up. Too many starting pitchers with 5-6 inning outings last year.

By maddog

December 10, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

I haven’t posted here since early in last season, mainly because of the trip-wire overreactions some (not all) here post, but I’ll give it a try again.

1st of all thanks to Dave O’Brien for outstanding work in keeping us informed - it was your efforts this week that brought me back.

I remember clearly before last season and during much of the early season how so many jumped on me for lauding LaRoche - especially SouthernJackAss. He was a bum, useless… trade his worthless butt etc. Yeah. While I understand the trade rumors last week concerning him I am VERY glad that Schuerholz kept him and pulled off the Soriano trade.

And to all those blasting JS again… let’s look at last 4 major trades: Marte for Renteria, Max soembody for Wickman, Betemit for Baez, and Ramirez for Soriano. 3 of 4 good trades, 1 clinker that is regrettable but given the desparation for pitching can be forgiven. A .750 batting average so far (as long as Soriano holds up even to his minimum potential).

Why let Marcus go? Well, DOB is correct - as much as it hurts he’s a replacable position, hasn’t been able to handle leadoff or stay uninjured. And to make his play in the field “safer” against injury you have to take away his hustle style. Plus that’s $5 mil (guess arbitration figure) that is freed up to find another starter somewher. Whoever replaces is likely to be in the 8-hole in the lineup, and I get the gist that the team likes Prado enough to make this move. I’ve also heard some talk that Kelly Johnson might be a spring experiment at 2nd as well - but please correct me if that’s wrong.

To the Baldelli proposal - when I first heard it I thought “That’s too much.” But as I think about it, it makes sense. One - an emerging Grady Sizemore-esque player locked in for many seasons at incredibly affordable rates. A leadoff hitter. LF covered this year, allowing for Langerhans, Diaz and Thorman to bench along with Aybar. Plus, and this is the crucial thing, we can conjecture all we want but two things are a reality: Andruw will be leaving at years end, and Andruw’s gonna block any trade. Ergo we WILL lose him in one year to a $20 mil a year deal and THAT will be a whole bigger than any to simply fix. Baldelli moves to center, and LF can be inherited by Thorman if he develops or the money saved from Andruw can be used to pick up another decent OF.

As for what we give up: Salty - Great potential, but bad year makes that potential less than certain (Andy Marte anyone?) Escobar - At first this was also my biggest scream, so much potential, almost ready, but folks his best position isn’t 2b, it’s ss, and with Renteria for 2 years and the even more electric Andrus on schedule for that time Escobar becomes expendable. Davies - So we have Smoltz, Hudson, James, Hampton…. ok, my instince would be to say try to package SP prospects from the minors instead but I realize it won’t go through without a starter already developed (albeit iffy so far). So, in a nutshell, GO FOR IT. Let Cormier and Villareal combat for 5th starter - with Soriano and Wickman at end we can shorten games and use Parranto and Boyer (knock on wood) in between.

I’ve been doing a lot of mock drafting for fantasy lately, and two things I’ve seen - OF’s are a shrinking commodity lately, there are more C’s than you think, and there are a lot of arms floating around that can be gotten cheaply to fill a #5 spot.

So that’s my two cents. Lineup thus looks like:

LF Baldelli ss Renteria 3b Chipper Jones CF Andruw Jones 1b Adam LaRoche c Brian McCann RF Jeff Francoeur 2b Prado or other

Ok - out for now.

By Steve-O

December 10, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Maddog

JS is 4 for 4 there buddy. It was Baez AND Aybar for Betemit. Aybar is virtually the identical player to Betemit if not witch a much larger upside because he has batted lead off successfully and is only 23 so he has much more room for improvement. So to all you JS haters his last 4 trades have been either successfull or in the case of Soriano potential to be very successfull.

By Lew

December 10, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

Jeff-Just how do you figure this to be a Drew-type deal. The only similarity is that they would give up three players. First, Baldeii is under contract until 2011. Five years, not the one Drew was signed for. Also, Baldelli will only make a TOTAL of $29 million over those five years-Maximum. His contract is extremely performance based. If he does not meet the criteria outlined in the contract (eg. 600 PA), he makes less money. Much has been made of his injuries, but if he is injured, the incentives don’t click in and we owe him damn little. His salary for 07 is $750,00, the same as we are paying Tanyon Sturtze, who may not pitch the first monthor so of the season. Baldelli hit over .300 last season with 16 HR in 92 games, is a good defensive outfielder, capapble of taking over center field if (as seems likely) Andruw is gone in 08. He takes care of the LF and leadoff positions in 07 and givces us a more than acceptable player to take Anduw’s place when the time comes. All of this for an average of less than $6 mil per season in these days of fiscal insanity. I don’t see how we can NOT do it. Salty is not likely to play for the Braves and Escobar may not either. Davies has potential, but we can replace him with currently available players and we have more coming up from the minors. We need this deal. Now and in the future.

By Maine Braves Fan

December 10, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

I think the braves need to make one more deal. I would like the balldeli trade but I dont now if I would want to trade davies. I went to that game in boston on his first start. I have ever since like davies and I think that we need to build around pitching and not do deals that are a waist of prospects. So make the trade to the angels please.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 10, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

We should here about what going to happen with Giles in the next 48 hours. I wish we could keep that guy.

By Just Curious

December 10, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Why does everyone always have a Peter Buck story? Why no Stipe stories?

By GermanBravesFan

December 10, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

maddog: “ditto” on the line-up … and everything else you said (wrote)!

By ncscoots

December 10, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

maddog, I move McCann to 7 behind Francoeur, Jeff needs some protection other than Prado behind him, or he’ll never see a hittable strike. Plus with catcher’s days off, I think you’d have less lineup disruption hitting McCann 7.

In any event, it’s a terrific lineup, Baldelli merely takes it from thunderous to ferocious. 20-HR pop down to the 7 hole, five guys capable of hitting .300, yikes and yowza. Defense and anything over .250 from the 8-hole would be just fine, and I admit to initially thinking Prado would not be enough. In this Baldelli scenario, he probably would be.

On the other hand, sans Baldelli, I’d take Thorman hitting 8 and just about any scrub hitting first. THAT lineup could probably give away a few outs without repercussion.

By GermanBravesFan

December 10, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Maine Braves Fan: which trade with the Angels are you referring to? Laroche isn’t going anywhere! The guy hit 30 homers in his second full season in the majors…

By Jeff

December 10, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Lew…you make good points. What I was aiming at wasn’t so much a rent-a-player deal like Drew but the fact that we gave up a guy like Wainwright (and two other serviceable pitchers) for an outfielder and a utility player. My philiosphy is that you win, overwhelmingly, with pitching (Braves claim its their philosphy too). Offense is much easier to generate (the Braves did so in ‘06). I can certainly see giving up Salty and Escobar for pitching, but not a position player, no matter how talented. Look, a lot of fans forget or don’t know that the Braves teams in the 70s were potent offensive teams (Hank Aaron among them), but those teams rarely cracked .500. Defense is certainly important, but defense is mostly a skill,and there are plenty of skill guys around.

We need pitching, younger arms, and, in my estimate, a re-commitment to build this franchise to be competitive for more than one or two seasons.

By maddog

December 10, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Thank you for that correction - I had forgotten Aybar was part of that deal. You’re right, although I still really liked Betemit.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

good afternoon to all, this journalist has just returned from church and now finds that someone is touting eva longoria for second base! this is unacceptable! while she would be an attractive second baseman this journalist thinks she would be too soft to handle the postion. better that we go with, sigh, pete orr than eva longoria.

now, flabravesgirl is being coy. we still do not know what kind of cheese she uses in her fudge. bob is too quick to dismiss cheese fudge. thinking like that could have prevented the discovery of the peanut butter cup.

when scalp’em talks cheese fudge jimmy smith listens because scalp’em knows biscuits and cornbread. good biscuits and cornbread signify good baking skills. gouda cheese seems also to be a bad fit for fudge.

this journalist is busily preparing for new year’s dinner - that’s right new year’s dinner - by gathering huge quantities of blackeyed peas to be eaten with cornbread. it is well known that lots of blackeyed peas and cornbread on the first day of the new year portends great wealth accumulation during the year. now, where are those blackeyed peas?

marcus giles … oh, the humanity! how his fortunes have turned! even his own team cannot afford him and prefers a cheaper alternative. not eva longoria though - too soft - too sissy. still, not bad on the eyes … maybe if we … nah!

did chipper jones see something like this coming when his contract was restructured? now, baseball … jimmy smith likes the sound of baldelli’s smelly deli. perhaps there are franchise opportunities?

someone said if pete orr plays full time he will be an outstanding second baseman. okay.

now,

By Steve

December 10, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

The Rays are not trading Baldelli without getting at least a TOP young pitcher in return….Davies doesn’t qulify!!Even with James,the Braves would have to sweeten the deal. James is not a Verlander,Bondermann,Felix Hernandez,or Ervin Santana.

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Morning, all.

Just Curious, because Stipe’s a weenie.

Salty, you’re hereby nominated to be the blog boigrapher, should you wish to do so. :-)

Yeah, Scoots, when the #7 guy is a silver slugger at his position that’s a pretty potent lineup.

By maddog

December 10, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Ncscoots - lineup point well-taken.

Jeff - My response is that’s why the Braves SHOULD pull off this deal - the future not just this year. Again - ANDRUW WILL BE GONE in 1 year. No ifs ands or buts. The Braves will get nothing save a compensation pick for him. You are right - pitching must be rebuilt, but by getting Baldelli the Braves won’t have to worry about shelling big bucks to fill that enormous hole next year, and can turn those savings into aquisition of young arms to replace Smoltz and Hampton next year(knock on wood he gives minimal performance this year). Davies is NOT the next Greg Maddux.

This one IS a sensible, long range-thinking deal.

By ncscoots

December 10, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

jjs, I wouldn’t be too quick to throw Eva Longoria under the bus as a potential 2B. Heck, I bet she could hit .250, and besides, who wouldn’t want to get to at least 2B with Eva Longoria??? Not to mention all the opposing players sliding too early when Eva executed the double-play pivot.

By flange1

December 10, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Hi All,

JUST CURIOUS

Lots of us have Michael Stipe stories, they are just so bizarre that most people would not believe them!

Like back at the OLD 40 Watt Club, he was so anti-social that he would sit in a chair ON TOP of the bar and watch the acts. He would talk with no one, heck I had 2 classes with him that quarter and saw him every day. In those days half the time when he sang he faced the drummer because he was so shy and thought he was ugly.

When he ever did talk, it was in a voice so low that you could not understand him. All in all the old Michael was a very sweet, kind person that loved music film and REM (not in that order.) It is amazing how he has changed over the years!

In the early years, his lyrics changed at every show, mainlt because he could not remember them, buy lyrical content was not the point, his voice was really the lead instrument in the band…

More (if you want it) later!

PS DO THE TRADE!!!!!

By DAP

December 10, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

JCB I think i would like have baldelli in center next year(2008), IF we lose andy, but not at the risk of weakening our starting pitching this year, and losing two great prospects that we could get more for, or who could be great players for us.

salty has least one full year, probably more in the minors before he is ready, and he can use that time to learn a little first base. in a couple of years, laroche will be more expensive, and we will have options with salty still being around.

also, escobar may be ready before rentaria is gone, but he will be a nice barganing chip down the road as well.

We dont *need this guy for our offense, now or in he future. not that it wouldnt be nice, be we should be careful what we give up for it.

langerhans is going to come back with a great season at the plate and will be a staple of our outfield. oh yeah, and if we are gonna talk about cheap, langerhans is only entering is second full season, just like frenchy and McCann….he is dirt cheap.

By Jim

December 10, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

About Marcus

If he is non-tendered and becomes a free agent won’t he be able to command a lot more than 5 million dollars from the highest bidder? If you look at his stats and his defense over his time in the major leagues he still has to be considered as an elite 2b man — he’s not as replaceable by some unproven minor leaguer as many are stating in their blogs. When listing the 2bmen who are better than Marcus only Utley and Cano (and possibly Phillips) come immediately to mind. There are a number of others that you might compare with him or call his equals, but they are either getting old (Kent, Vidro, Biggio) or don’t play as good defense or have only had one good season(Weeks, Uggla). It seems that there should be more interest in a player of Marcus’s ability and if a team really wants to make sure it gets him and gets him at the arbitration price they would be willing to deal. Hopefully we get at least a serviceable player for Marcus.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 10, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

Steve,

Verlander,Bondermann,Felix Hernandez,or Ervin Santana.

If the D-Rays want that badelli their keeping him.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

Ace [Frehley?] asked: “DOB - how does the young Elvis look anyway?”

Well, I know the ladies loved him and he had that swagger and edge to him as a youngster, but nothing wrong with the older Elvis, before he got really, really bloated at the end. I just bought this incredibly cool lamp of Vegas-era Elvis. It’s got the marquee from the International Hotel _ “International Hotel presents Elvis” replicated on the lamp shade, then the Vegas sign and Elvis beneath it, on one knee, head down, with his cape spread….

Oh, wait, did you mean Elvis Andrus? Nevermind.

By Lew

December 10, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

Scoots-I’d leave McCann batting 5th, Francoeur 6th and leave LaRoche in the 7 spot, just like last year. Jeff, your point about previous Braves’ teams and potent offense is well taken. However, Andruw is as good as gone next year (08) and Baldelli’s long term deal (5 years for 29 mil MAX) trumps losing a low level pitcher. Besides, we have arms on the horizon. Harrison is a true stud (I was wrong, his k to BB ratio is ONLY 3 to 1) and JoJO Reyes and Beay Jones should be every bit as good as Davies, who as I see it, may or may not turn into a dependable starter. I’m perfectly comfortable with Cormier as a #5 guy, as opposed to Villarreal, only because I’d like to see Oscar remain long relief/spot starter. I still think the Villa/Cormier for Estrada trade will turn out to be a jewel for Atlanta.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Brandon, haven’t scrolled down from your post yet, and I’m sure many pointed this out, but just in case: Davies isn’t left-handed. What team you watching, dude?

You wrote: “Davies still could also be very good, plus he is left-handed. The Braves problems last year were not scoring runs. They had a losing record b/c they could not keep teams from scoring. Soriano helps, but is not enough. Final word about this deal….how could the Braves afford it?”

How could they afford it? Baldelli makes $750,000 next season, as was explained in detail in the original post.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

Ernesto, you wrote: “It would be nice to have some guys you could get to know, guys who could become a Brave, rather than the 1 or 2 year Rent-a-stud method we’ve been employing (see: Sheff, Drew, Lofton et al.)”

That’s part of the potential plus of the trade _ Baldelli is under your control for the NEXT FIVE YEARS at a max of $26 mill over that span, if you want him that long and pick up the options on his contract the last two years. That’s really, really reasonable in today’s market.

And so far, you’ve seen him play as much as you’ve seen either of the two prospects, Escobar and Salty, unless you happened to see Salty in a spring game. Actually, you might have seen Baldelli play more than you’ve seen either of them, if you saw him play in any Tampa Bay games….

Of course, you’ve seen Davies a few times. Some might suggest a few times too many last season, when he was admittedly slowed by serious injury. But wow, was he bad most games….

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

with such a lamp it is clear dob lives alone.

By Kaine

December 10, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

Ok, lets think about this. What would I do? I would send Giles (bring up Escobar), Davies (I haven’t been too impressed with him anyway), and send LaRoche to the D-Rays for Crawford. Why not? They need to start rebuilding, need a left fielder anyway, he can steal and bat lead off to boot. I’m tired of the platooning left fielders. Bring up Salty Dog to try out first. Granted this may blow for the first year. At least we’d be positioning to move up the year after. Also I’d try to get rid of Hudson for a young pitcher that CAN be developed. But I am also the type that believes that we can get most of the players we need from our farm system instead of trading all the time. With the exception of the Crawford and Hudson trades I mmentioned above. If need be, the money we save on Hudson can be used later for a pitcher if next year’s rotation didn’t work out.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Flange, Personally I’d rather hear more about this:

“I was real lucky, I was in the right place at the right time and was fortune enough to see REM 400-500 times. They were and are one of the best live acts ever. Yes DOB, I LIVED at 688. Do you know 688?”

I’m very envious. I feel fortunate to have seen them 9-10 times, including every year back when they used to tour every year from the early ’80s to late ’80s. Probably my favorite band for about 5 years in the ’80s. 688 was a great club, huh?

ROBERT, you wrote: “Baseball isn’t played in February. I think he could endure a couple of weeks of cold weather for $19 or $20 mil a year. I’m just guessing. You heard it hear first.”

Agreed, if the highest bidder is from a good team in the north, and it was significantly higher than, say, one of the LA teams offered, he’d go. But he WON’T go in his walk year to a cold-weather team without the huge contract in place. Not that it’s even going to come to that….

By the way, baseball isn’t played in Feb., but if you’ve been to Fenway park, you know it can feel like Feb. for the first 2-3 months and last month of the season. And, of course, San Francisco can feel like that in the middle of summer.

By Jeff

December 10, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Maddog…excellent points, worth considering. But aren’t there solid pitching prospects out there who teams may part with for Salty and/or Escobar? Got to believe that the Braves can always find ways of filling their offensive/position player needs. I don’t know that it would take big bucks to fill Andruw’s shoes. The assumption is that the Braves can’t win unless they find a player of Andruw’s caliber. What they would need is a CF who is good defensively with decent offensive talent. He doesn’t even have to be a power guy; they could, possibly, generate power numbers from the other positions.

Teams need a lot of good young arms in the pipeline because many of those arms just never pan out. Davies and Devine may be examples of that.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

Flange, just saw this one. Great stuff:

“Like back at the OLD 40 Watt Club, he was so anti-social that he would sit in a chair ON TOP of the bar and watch the acts. He would talk with no one, heck I had 2 classes with him that quarter and saw him every day. In those days half the time when he sang he faced the drummer because he was so shy and thought he was ugly.”

I’d never heard about the chair atop the bar. But when I saw them in Lawrence, Kan., in 1983, that’s what I remember most about the show, how he sang the entire night with his back to the crowd, in a flea-market overcoat with “Live Bear” and a bear drawing on the back. He had the long curly hair then.

Anyway … back to baseball. Don’t want to make folks uncomfortable or anything….

By Drew

December 10, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

It is looking like we aren’t going to get anything for Marcus and I can’t blame the rest of the league. Why trade anyone for him when you can sign him after he is non-tendered. Then you can sign him to a longer term deal while his value is at an all-time low.

By maddog

December 10, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Dave, when does Hampton’s contract finally expire? Is it next year or the year after?

PS - Since a call was issued for Stipe stories - when I lived in Athens I ran into him with a mutual friend at the Georgia Bar. I was quite… well, unattached to planet earth that night due to too many screwdrivers. I only remember babling some inane comments about what I thought of Monster, plus some other non-sensical stuff. Several days later I ran into the mutual friend and apologized for probably sounding like an idiot fan… he looked at me and said Stipe was so blasted he didn’t remember being in the bar that night, so not to worry.

Oh, and Jeff - Offense isn’t as easy to replace - it only seems that way when you score like the Braves did last year…. which will go bye bye fast if all they have left in the OF is Francoeur come a year from now.

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

The Falcons are making me nauseous. In Bill Simmons’ Power Poll on ESPN a couple of days ago he had the Falcons listed under “Teams that linger around like a stale fart.” He said “They’re like the Barbaro of Pro Football. Will somebody please just let me know when they are officially alive or officially dead?” Then he had a photo of Barbaro there holding his broken leg out at an angle after the race and the caption read “This is what it must feel like to be a Falcons fan.” I’m sitting here now watching them fumble snaps, fall over each other and allow an absolutely wretched Tampa team to keep kicking field goals. Time for a Xanax.

By Steve

December 10, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Why not throw in Brayan Pena instead of Salty? Then we keep a good prospect and still get Baldelli. Or try to add a few relievers, like Yates or Stockman, and keep either Escobar or Salty?

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Maddog, very strong 11:23 post….

Well, I’ve about had enough of this Falcons game (boy, are they great to follow, or what?) Time to rake the leaves, a task I’ve put off for, oh, three weeks….

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Maddog, just saw you ask about Hampton: $14.5 mill in 2007, $15 mill in 2008, then done. Already had option bought out for 2009, as part of the three-way trade that brought him here.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

JJS, regarding this comment: “With such a lamp it is clear dob lives alone.”

Good point. And true. And any woman who might read this would certainly be frightened. That’s why I need a woman who appreciates The King for his greatness.

But even my ex would at least have allowed the lamp in my office, where I plan to have it. Wasn’t going to put it in living room _ don’t want you folks concerned about me.

By Shaun

December 10, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Why would the Braves just non-tender Giles? Doesn’t make any sense to me. Maybe they are just saying that so some team that wants him will panic and give up too much for him.

It just doesn’t seem like the Braves would let one of the best secondbaseman in the game when healthy go without getting something. Seems like it would be worth paying the extra money it would take to keep him for one more season rather than letting him go for nothing.

No matter what you think of Giles, you have to agree that when healthy he is one of the best secondbasemen in the game and the Braves could get at least one halfway decent player for him.

It just makes no sense to me whatsoever that the Braves would just non-tender him. Maybe that’s why I’m not a GM, but I don’t get it.

By peezee

December 10, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Trade Salty ‘cause we have McCann and LaRoche(if he was moved to first). Escobar? Well, we have plenty of top middle infielders. Davies? He hasn’t shown me ALL that much, but he definitely has potential. I think it isn’t if the Braves want this trade, I truly believe the Rays have to decide on these three for Baldelli. I think this would be another steal for JS. I truly don’t believe the Rays will pull the trigger on this deal Unless it is C. James is in the mix.

By David O'Brien

December 10, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

SHAUN, one last time: The Braves DON’T HAVE THE MONEY in their budget to afford Giles and still give out the small raises they need to for all their other players who have less than three years’ service. And if they tender him a contract, they either MUST trade him or pay him close to $6 mill. If they don’t tender him, it means they don’t want to take the risk of being stuck with that contract. Really, I’m surprised that some of you, some who otherwise seem to grasp fully all the economic angles of the game, can’t get this one. I think because a lot of folks just like Marcus a lot. I understand that, but you have to separate it and look at the money. Think about it: Braves say they couldn’t even MAKE AN OFFER to Glavine until they cleared up money, and he ends up getting a $7.5 mill salary next season from Mets (plus $3 mill buyout of 2008 if he doesn’t pitch for them again then)….

OK, wanted to share something my buddy Dejan Kovacevic of Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had today: He said teams are inquiring about all of the Pirates’ late-inning relievers (including Mike Gonzalez, the lefty closer Atlanta wanted), as well as second baseman Jose Castillo, who by the way is hitting .321 with five home runs in 109 at-bats in Venezuela this winter, with 23 walks and 15 strikeouts (strikeouts have been a problem with him in past).

He also writes that IF “talks with Atlanta regarding a hitter were to resume, the discussion likely would be about Scott Thorman rather than LaRoche. Thorman, 24, batted ,234 with five home runs and 14 RBIs in 128 at-bats as a rookie last season. The Braves hold LaRoche in higher regard, but they like Thorman enough that he was going to play first if LaRoche had been dealt.”

OK, just thought I’d share that with you all.

By voice of dissent

December 10, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

I just wanted to put my two cents in in this soriano trade. The Braves will get about 50-60 innings and 5-10 saves out of this guy if he stays healthy and a potential future closer. Horam if healthy would have given the Braves 10-15 wins and 200 plus innings , not to mention a rotation with three left handers. This trade strikes me as a disguised contract dump much in the same mold as the millwood trade. Beyond the starting five of Smoltz , hudson , hampton , james and davies there is little depth and it could be a huge problem for Atlanta if the injury bug strikes again. DOB , your trade proposal of a catcher , shortstop and pitcher for an (baldelli) outfielder is well , um let me just say that there is a reason you are a beat writer and JS is a GM. Giles and Reitsma will be non-tendered and they will soon join the growing ranks of ex-braves. Somebody please tell me this isnt all the Braves are capable of during this hotstove offseason ? puuulleeeease !!!

By darrin

December 10, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

DoB what are the chances of say maybe a package of Giles and Salty?

By CC Rider

December 10, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

DOB, DO you think there is a possibility of John S. working to defer some of Chippers, Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson or Renteria’s contracts down the road to allow to keep M. Giles this year. After considering the options, Aybar to stay as utility player, Escobar not ready, K.Johnson not likely to be ready’,Prado solid defensively but not much with the bat and Orr hasn’t shown anything special in any area. The options are not looking very good. Either, we go with a good(not great) fielder with no bat or a good bat with below average fielding. THe prospects do not look promising.

By Lew

December 10, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

DOB-You don’t need a lamp in the living room-just a spotlight for a certain piece of art work, I do believe.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, has Giles said anything about this situation. I’m just curious how he feels.

Also, if the Pirates would be stupid enough to make a trade involving Gonzales for Thorman, JS should jump all over that. Are the Pirates that silly? Also, as far as I’m concerned they can keep Jose Castillo because I think Prado is the real deal.

In your gut, do you think that this deal with the Rays will get done?

If not, how about offering those same players to the Angels for either Howie Kendrick or Chione Figgins and Joe Saunders?

By Shaun

December 10, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

CC Rider,

Not only is Giles the best option for the Braves (albeit a possibly expensive one), the would be a better option than what most teams have at secondbase right now. And the Braves would consider non-tendering him? Maybe they know something I don’t.

By GermanBravesFan

December 10, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

To Voice of Dissent: Here is what Peter Gammons wrote on espn.com:

• The deal that got the most attention within the industry was Atlanta’s acquisition of Rafael Soriano from Seattle for Horacio Ramirez. “That was a great John Schuerholz deal,” said one general manager. “Unbelievable.”

The Braves needed bullpen help and got one of the best set-up men in the game for an often-injured 5th starter!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Voice of dissent, note what you said. “If he is healthy….” That is the problem. If he were healthy last year the Braves would have probably made the playoffs, but he wasn’t was he. He hasn’t been for two years. Not to mention that in getting Soriano the Braves solve the closer issue once Wickman retires, which could be after 2007. Not to mention Soriano provides insurance in case Wickman gets injured or becomes ineffective.

As for the Baldelli trade, it is the same sort of thing. You can’t just look to the present but the future. Salty and Escobar, for as great as they are, are prospects. No guarantee they will pan out. Don’t forget Betemit and Marte were top level prospects as well. Marte still could live up to the billing but has given no real indication that he will. Baldelli has already proven that he can play at the big league level and is productive. Not to mention he is cheap. The Braves would have him locked up for the next five years for all of $26 million. Think about that. Lets put it in this perspective. Gary Matthews Jr will make $50 million over the next five seasons. Is he a better player than Baldelli? Is he even in the same class? Nope. Juan Pierre will make $45 million in that time. This is why this deal would be terrific. Sure he could get hurt but so could Salty (who was for a time last year), Escobar, and we already know Davies was.

JS is thinking about the future as well as the present and thank God he is not sacrificing the future for the present. Ask the Royals and Nats how that worked out. Despite going under the radar one of the stupidest moves of this past season was the Nats not trading Alfonso Soriano. Did they really think they were going to resign him. Look at what they could have recieved from the White Sox, Angles, Tigers, and Dodgers. All of whom were willing to trade for him. Instead they got nothing but a draft pick for him. Moronic! Everyone acts like these draft picks are gold or something. What is more valuable? A draft pick or a proven major leaguer or at least a prospect that has shown the ability to play at the big league level?

By flange1

December 10, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

I was in the right place at the right time, a student at UGA in 1978 till, well for awhile! I had classes with Stipe and bought record from Peter at Wuxtry across from Russell Hall. Got to see TONS of REM shows from many AThens venues, (the old church being one of them) Tyrones, (till it burned down) Frat parties, I even made some out of town trips with the guys.

They really were a real cool group of guys. Mike Mills was and is the real musician of the group. He is a better than average piano player and sings better than most think. Mike and Bill were always the “Macon guys” and Peter and Michael were the “Athens guys”. Peter loved to play live more than he loved anything else in the world. I can’t count the number of times I saw him jump on stage at 688 in Atlanta with everyone from the Fleshtones to the Replacements to a real crazy 2 songs with Husker Du….He rarely knew their songs and realyy was not that great a player, but he pushed himself and learned alot “on the job.” He is one of the few local guys that I ever knew that went to a show with a guitar in his trunk!!!

I know if you could talk music with Peter, you would have alot of similar tastes. He likes the county groove thing, turned me on to Joe Ely, forced me to start back listening to some guy named Cash when all I wanted was a new Clash album….

As for the Clash, check out the back cover of London Calling. There is a picture taken in Atlanta at the Agora Ballroom. The guy yelling in the crowd was a buddy of mine, I was right behind him!!!!

The CLASH RULE…..

By rainman

December 10, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

to me the trade is a no brainer. Two guys that have skills but had bad seasons at double a and a starter that has one maybe two good games in the majors. Baldelli is good now but being around chipper, andruw and bobby cox will make him great.

By berigan

December 10, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

Saw this in the SPTimes about the possible trade…. **Still, the Braves remain extremely interested in centerfielder Rocco Baldelli, enough that they are going somewhat public in their quest and willing to talk about some of their prized prospects, such as catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia and shortstop Yunel Escobar. The Rays, though, want pitching, which makes Chuck James and Kyle Davies more appealing.

But the Braves, who see Baldelli as the eventual replacement for free-agent-to-be Andruw Jones, usually get what they want, which should make for some interesting conversations during the next week. And some difficult decisions for the Rays.**

By darrin

December 10, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

once again like DOB says there is no way Giles is in abrave uniform this season and why is everyone so in love with this guy at best he is a middle of the road 2b i wonder if PITT would take him and Thorman for Gonzales straight 2 for 1 deal then if everyone must have Baldelli then do that deal now we have a team for the postseason and food for thought A.J. will resign with the ATL J.S. aint that dumb. DOB what do you think of this scenario

By Ace

December 10, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

DOB - my tongue was certainly in my cheek when I worded my Elvis question. The lamp sounds swanky and all, but what about our young Mr. Andrus? How does he influence the decision on this potential trade?

And what would it mean for Langy and/or Diaz?

By Shaun

December 10, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

I agree that a Baldelli trade wouldn’t be bad, but I do think Salty is as close to a sure thing as you can get. Almost all good hitting prospects turn into something. The chances of him becoming at least a decent major leaguer I’d say are better than 95 percent.

I think the only reason the D-Rays would consider trading a player like Baldelli is that they could get a player like Saltalamacchia and others in return.

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Oh, my my.

You know, in the Book it says that after God created Adam, He looked at His creation and said “It is not good for him to live alone. He needs a helpmate.”

Translation: Hmm, this one ain’t gonna make it alone; he’s got to have a helper.

An Elvis lamp. I rest my case!

:-))))))

(All in fun. All in fun, y’all!)

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Shaun, can you not understand that the Braves don’t have the payroll. Who do you suggest go to keep him? The Braves could trade LaRoche but if they traded him for equal value then the payroll would see no real relief. I guess a LaRoche/Davies for Baldelli deal would solve the issue to some degree. I think Thorman could get the job done. But the other reason for getting rid of Giles is to free up $5 mil whereas getting rid of LaRoche would in essence only free $1.5 mil. You look at what Giles is likely to get in arbitration and compare that to what Prado would make and the Braves would be saving over $4.5 mil and that money would give them some flexibility to make a move, if necessary, later in the 2007 season. I love Giles to death. I don’t want him to go. However, it is envitable that he has to. The only way he doesn’t leave is if Andruw leaves and that isn’t going to happen. Like I said, maybe the Braves could offer LaRoche and Davies for Baldelli and some sort of prospect. I wouldn’t be terribly upset by that trade. But again, that trade would save the Braves around $2 mil as opposed to the $4.5 mil they will save by either non-tendering Giles or trading him. The reason nobody is trading for him because they know the Braves are between a rock and a hard place. They can let the Braves non-tender him and then sign him without giving up anything. I guarantee that Giles is signed by someone by Thursday.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 10, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

DOB do you think the Braves are going to wait until the last minute Tuesday to make a move with Giles? My guess is the longer he goes without being dealt the better chance there is he gets cut.

By flange1

December 10, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Nice one Carloina Lady!

By Shaun

December 10, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

darrin,

Marcus Giles is not middle of the road. .285 AVG/.361 OBP/.448 SLG career—that’s above the league average for any hitter at any position in the league. I’m sure those numbers look even better compared to other secondbasemen. Sure he’s had some injuries, but his offensive production helps make up for any playing time deficiencies.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

Darrin, JS “not being that dumb” has nothing do with resigning Andruw. It is about money. What would be dumb of JS to do is sign Andruw at all costs and sacrifice the rest of the team. Baseball is not like basketball. You can’t get one “superstar” and surround him with marginal talent and hope to win. Sure, the Braves could sign Andruw but they would have to trade LaRoche, Francoeur, McCann, Renteria, and pray someone would take Hudson to do it. Andruw will get $19 or $20 mil a year in his next contract. I’m sure he would consider a discount but a discount at those prices is $16 or $17 mil, which is also out of the Braves’ price range. Let’s say he would agree to $16 mil, which he won’t, but for arguments sake. The Braves would have to come up with a mere $2.5 mil. Sounds easy right? Well, keep in mind Hudson will get a $6.5 mil pay raise. Sure they could trade him but if he has another subpar year nobody is going to take him at $13 mil. Lets say he is traded. Great! The money is freed up. Just one problem. Who replaces him in the rotation. Can’t get anyone in free agency because Andruw would have sucked up that money. Whomever was obtained in the trade but you would have to think that those players would be making some coin in order for them to be worth the trade. And what about JS? If he has another great year, he could easily command $15 or $16 mil for one season in this market. Even if he took a discount, it would almost certainly be around $10 mil, which is a $2 mil raise from what he is making now. The reality is that the Braves are under a payroll constraint and have little wiggle room. Their only option is to dump all of the salaries but then the team would not be truly competetive for a couple of years. Not to mention some of those contracts could be unmovable (Hampton). I think Chipper could be traded but would he accept a trade. Hudson as of right now would be very difficult.

My point being fans want their cake and to eat it to. I’m not against a salary dump in the mode of the Marlins. However, I realize and can accpet that the next couple of years could be a bit lean. How many people feel the same?

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Hey, flange! Thanks! :-)))

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

I agree, Shaun. But, the reality is the Rays are in the drivers seat here. If they don’t trade Baldelli, no skin off their nose, you know. They know unless the stars truly align just right that they have no chance of making the playoffs. They want major league ready pitching so they can be competitive and so they can use that pitching down the road to fill other needs. I don’t think Salty is necessarily the key to deal as much as a pitcher is. JS’ chore will be to convince them that Davies is every bit the pitcher James is. Can he do it? Knowing JS, probably. What will be interesting about all this is to what lengths will teams go to make the deal. The White Sox have pitching but seem reluctant to give any of it up. At least the cheap pitching. The O’s have Bedard but don’t seem to hip to give him up. I think the Angels are one of those two other teams but if they won’t give pitching up to fill their most pressing need, which is a left handed power hitter, they won’t give it up for Baldelli. I think the Blue Jays are the other team but they need pitching themselves so they don’t have anything to give. The Braves are the frontrunners to get this deal done, however, the Rays can play hardball. What is JS going to tell them? That they NEED this pitching. For what? They aren’t contending in that divison. They aren’t contending for a wildcard. Now, I personally think the Rays will make the deal because they have to do something to show their fans they are even trying to be competitive. Davies could be a star. You have to chalk up last year to the injury. I think some of his problems are mental. Remember during his rehab stint. He was unhittable at both AA and AAA. He got back to the big club and couldn’t get it done. That tells me he has the ability but perhaps not the mental makeup. He could build his confidence up in Tampa because the pressure wouldn’t be there to perform. In Atlanta the playoffs are expected. In Tampa losing less than 90 games is seen as a successful year.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

an elvis lamp. also a lamp with three monkeys, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. a lava lamp, perhaps? these all must go when a woman resides there. no animal heads on the wall either. carolina lady has reinforced jimmy smith’s thoughts on this matter. this journalist has had to remove such items from the house before. now, “why can’t they just keep marcus giles?” well, for all those employed by government it is because the budget is strict and must be adhered to. if this team is run like other for-profit companies - there will be no consideration given to just increasing the budget. now, the ajc is reporting that warrick dunn has sprained (his) effort. oh, the humanity! what an injury to sustain! journalist is researching this injury now and can only hope it is not toe related. now, hubbard looks like he can still play a little. run him out there.

By Aleem

December 10, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice is the best), I think you’re exagerrating a good deal here. Signing Andruw would mean an increase in salary of about 7 million (going from about 13 to about 20 mill). We wouldn’t have to trade that many players to clear the salary. Just one on the order of a Hudson or Renteria would do it. I’m not saying that’s where I’d go, but it’s definitely a possibility.

Also, I’ve never understood the “have your cake and eat it too” phrase. If someone has cake, why exactly wouldn’t they be eating it?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Giles is still a stud. I find it laughable when people say he isn’t that good or just an average 2B. What are these people watching. In the NL I would only say a few 2B are better than Giles. (Chase Utley and Jeff Kent) Dan Uggla and Brandon Phillips could be considered better but they have only had ONE good season so far. Lets see if it continues. Giles had an off year that could be directly attributed to him being injured and being very uncomfortable at leading off. And even with that he had a very strong second half which made his season productive. In a perfect world Giles would be the Braves 2B, but of course the world is not perfect.

By TheWyzyrd

December 10, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, Flange is right on! The 688, within walking distance from 72 Marietta Street, was the late-night place to be. Very edgy stuff. Back in the day, Atlanta was really hot. The Agora (saw Sprinsteeen there in 1974), The Capri Ballroom, The Great Southeast Music Hall. Saw Buffett and Billy Joel there once. The audience consisted of My wife, me and 10 other folks! Saw the Sex Pistols first U.S. show rthere. Could go on and on. But I won’t. The best thing. I have pictures from each of the shows. Most of the taken by the AJC’s Michael Crain. He’s long gone, now. The Journal really made a huge effort to cover the scene in an attempt to lure younger readers. We covered everything. It was my “grueling” job to coordinate and cover all of it. Lasted about 2 to 3 years. We got a new ME and everything changed. He was the one who brought who broght the oppressive atmosphere that still pervades today. Sorry you missed it. I’ve still got all of the stuff. Still have my 688 T-shirt. Can’t believe I actually fit into a small. TheWyz

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 10, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

JJS:

When you went off on your “Eva Longoria” rant, I kept reading to see if you would pull an “Emily LaTella” (for those of us old enough to have seen Saturday Night Live in the 70’s, and of course, those of us who didn’t have dates - otherwise, why the hell would we have been watching a television show on Sat. night?). Ya know, “Thanks Cheddar - Now, what’s all this fuss I’ve heard about Eva Longoria playing baseball… Chevy breaks in, says, “Ms LaTella, its EvaN Longoria - and she says, “Oh, never mind”. Now that would have been a classic post!!

Stev-O You said JS is 4 for 4 there buddy. It was Baez AND Aybar for Betemit. Aybar is virtually the identical player to Betemit if not witch a much larger upside because he has batted lead off successfully and is only 23 so he has much more room for improvement I disagree - while Aybar has speed, he has nothing close to Betemit’s power, and he doesn’t use his speed on base - he didn’t steal a base for the Braves the two months he was here - not much of a distraction to the pitcher, catcher or middle infielders if he ain’t gonna steal sometimes. Plus, Betemit is a better fielder - Aybar commits too many errors. Baez was ok, not great, not bad - but, he didn’t get many opportunities to make a difference, and he is long gone. I think the Bums got the better of us on this one.

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

“for all those employed by government” Beautiful, jjs! :-))) Ain’t it the truth!

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 10, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

Robert - I agree with you about Giles talent, performance and desire - Its killing me to see this happen, but as stated on my post late last night, its this “dirty baseball business” and budgetary constraints that are driving this unfortunate situation.

I was about to point out that Reyes cannot be excluded from your list of hot shot 2B’s - but then, I remembered he plays SS - “Oh, never mind.”

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 10, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Allem:

“Have your cake and eat it too” is an old english proverb - it means you can either keep your cake for when you need it, or eat it now, but you ain’t gonna have any for later (when meals weren’t a mile drive in the car down the road, or a mere walk to the icebox). Rather, one meal a day was sustenance, 1 and 1/2 meals was a luxury. So no, in the middle ages parlance, you could either have your cake on hand, or eat it, but not both.

Maybe if they had said “you can’t have your CHEESE and eat it too”, the bloggers would have understood and/or accepted its meaning.

By Stinky

December 10, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

“1st of all thanks to Dave O’Brien for outstanding work in keeping us informed - it was your efforts this week that brought me back.”

That will get you a “strong post” rating from Davida O’Brainless every time.

By morris

December 10, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Why do we not have better planning at the minor league level. When it becomes apparent that were loaded at shortstop, why don’t we switch a guy to second. Why did we not try moving salty to first when McCann became a star his rookie year. Guess what? Salty isn’t even really that good of a defensive catcher anyway, another reason to move the guy to first. This all seems inexplicable to me that some of these moves are not made.

By Aleem

December 10, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Haha, thanks Scalp ‘Em. I obviously understood what the saying means, but to know the statement might actually make some literal sense is good to know. I definitely have a pet peeve for all those random lines that really don’t make any sense but are still used to say certain things. Stuff like having your “work cut out for you.” Seems like work would be easier cut out for you than not…

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 10, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady:

Things have slowed down on the blog (thank goodness). Here are “David’s Best Biscuits”.

1 3/4 C self rising flour (White Lilly, of course); 1/2 cup butter (I prefer the “Amish Butter” now available - more butterfat, e.g more flavor); 3/4 cups milk (any variety other than no fat milk will do - if you want to use buttermilk, that is ok - just be sure to add a teaspoon of baking soda to blunt the bitterness). Cut all but 2 tablespoons of the butter into the flour until pebbly (melt the other two tbs for brushing during baking). Pour milk into flour/butter mixture and GENTLY fold until mixed (otherwise, the biscuits will be like bricks). Turn onto a lightly floured surface, pat flat and cut your biscuits - put into a round cake pan, with the sides touching. Bake at 450 degrees for about 15 - 17 minutes (a few minutes less if you convect). Brush melted butter on tops and put back into oven for 4 - 5 minutes - If you need to, turn on the broiler for a minute or two to brown the tops. Ya know, sausage, biscuits and gravy is sounding great for supper!

By mariner

December 10, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

DOB: You mention the Pitt. Post-Gazette article saying that if talks were to resume for Gonzalez, it would only include Thorman. Maybe the talks should be Thorman for Damaso Marte? I think that’s more equitable for both sides.

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Hey Scalp, did you ever find that e-mail? The headline was “Re:Braves Blog.” If not, I’ll try again in a bit after I fire the grill up (gotta stay warm somehow). I never copy my messages, which is obviously counter-productive.

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Scalp! I’m much obliged!!

FBG, I’ve just gotta try that fudge recipe (with che…chee…) that stuff. Will you share?? Please??? :-)))))

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 10, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

morris,

Carolina Lady posted a link to a discussion with the KC GM and that should answer you question.

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

Oops, never mind. Guess I should’ve checked the inbox first. Man, those biscuits sound good. I might switch to breakfast food tonight myself. Hmmm…

CL, what you said about Adam and the Lord and the neccessary companion got my wheels turning; I think the good Lord left out the part about the pain in the…. :-) An Elvis lamp doesn’t nag or make you take out the trash.

By Fanatico

December 10, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Soriano’s current stats in the DWL: 6 innings in 6 games, 8 hits, 7 runs (5 earned), 2 walks and 1 strikeout. Yes, its only 6 innings but the 1 strikeout is disconcerting and the stats seem to indicate he has a ways to go to recover from getting hit on the head this past August.

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Now, as for that Elvis lamp going in DOB’s office, he can tell that to someone else. I bet it’s goin’ right next to the ol’ martini-shaped hot tub. I got a $20 that says DOB’s pad looks like Quagmire’s from Family Guy. :-)

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 05:23 PM | Link to this

Billy, I think someone else posted the link. I don’t want to steal anyone’s thunder! At least I don’t remember posting that link…..They say the first thing to go is your memory. Also, the first thing to go is your memory! :-)))

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Well, Grinch, you’ll have to talk to Him about that! :-))

By mariner

December 10, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

I finally saw what Daryl Ward got from the Cubs. $1 mil for 07 with a club option for 08. No wonder we couldn’t sign him. I’m surprised that’s all he got. I wish we could have spent a little more on the end of the bench.

By elbravox

December 10, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

Whatever the outcome, Marcus has gained my respect as a man for how he is handling this awkward situation.

By Big Daddy

December 10, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

For all of you worrying about Marcus, don’t; he will wind up with a very good free agent contract. Not tendering him is very much like not tendering Dannys Baez. Baez is a good pitcher but the Braves couldn’t afford him in the package. Marcus is a good second baseman but the Braves can’t afford him. Something similar is going to happen every year; get used to it.

Baldelli is a proven player. He will solve a problem in 2007 and fill a HUGE GAP in 2008-2011 and all that for $25 million or thereabouts (total).

Atlanta’s three prospects may make it but NONE of them have made it yet. And none of them can play CF where the Braves are going to have a huge hole in 2008.

Short term and long term this trade makes all the sense in the world for the Braves. However, if I were a Rays fan I’m not at all sure I’d like this trade. I try to look at all trades in that manner; would I like it if I were a fan of the other team? This one I would not like if I lived in Tampa.

Tampa would be getting a pitcher who simply blew out last year, an infielder who is not ready yet and a catcher who is not ready. Would I want to give up a Grade A center fielder (with a very good contract) for players who are UNLIKELY to help me this year?

Let me ask it this way; would you trade Francoeur for Davies, Salty and Escobar? Or maybe you’d trade LaRoche for them? Or how about McCann? Would you trade him for the three of them? I didn’t think so.

And that dear folks is why this trade may never come down. After all we should assume the Devil Rays are not being run by idiots. The owners of that team didn’t get their hundreds of millions because they are fools. The more I think of this deal the less I think it will come to pass.

If I were John S. I would draw the line at giving up Chuck James. That would be the deal breaker for me, not the other three. I’d cut this deal in a heartbeat and I have this strong feeling John S. has already committed to it. He is not going to give up James and I’d bet the farm that is what’s holding up this trade.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 10, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

By David

December 9, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

We have seen Dayton Moore discussed a couple of times recently. If you want to read an excellent with him from back around the trade deadline, click this [link:]http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/15102717.htm

I stand corrected

By athens rotgut

December 10, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

oh DOB!! what a tease man! I would still LOVE another reliever. And for Thorman! I like the old Canuck eh but let him shine somewhere else if we can grab one of their relievers.

Nicks suggestions:

1. Keep LaRoache. Trade Thorman (YES!)

2. Trade for Rocco but i REALLY hate to see Davies go. DOBber it doesnt sound like you think too highly of KD but for some reason i DO. Maybe he screwed up last year and didnt do all the necessary things to compete all year long BUT…

I would do the trade for anybody else other than Davies. I just really dont like the sound of that.

I wish some team with playoff contentions would pick up GILES for anything! The ALL STR deserves at least that. Let him go hit in the 7-8 hole for a West Coast team for some minor league pitcher and next year demand top $$$ from a team he wants to go to. He is a classy guy. I really hope JS and the Braves did kill his value making him bat leadoff!

ANyways..man i live in athens and im not quite old enough to remember “the good old days with REM” but i still love their music. I was fortunate enough to see Widespread Panic cover one of their songs for Halloween this year in Vegas and they rocked the house! Id love to hear more stories about ATHENS from back in the day or more about REM. (sorry DOB im not a man in black fan)

Go Braves.

By akirell

December 10, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

Why does anyone have such hatred for DOB? It’s just a baseball blog, not a political discussion board. Save the name-calling for kindergarten

By berigan

December 10, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

*By Shaun

December 10, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best),

I agree that a Baldelli trade wouldn’t be bad, but I do think Salty is as close to a sure thing as you can get. Almost all good hitting prospects turn into something. The chances of him becoming at least a decent major leaguer I’d say are better than 95 percent*

Shaun, are you old enough to remember the can’t miss prospect David Green??? December 12, 1980: Traded by the Milwaukee Brewers with Dave LaPoint, Sixto Lezcano, and Lary Sorensen to the St. Louis Cardinals for Pete Vuckovich, Rollie Fingers, and Ted Simmons He was called by the cards the best prospect in 15 years! Meaning better than Dave Winfield, Reggie Jackson, Al Oliver, Dave Parker, Carlton Fisk , anyone! Well, the trade basically made the Brewers. Rollie won the Cy Young in 1981, Vuckovich the Cy Young and MVP in 1982, and Ted Simmons had several big years with the Brewers as well. The Cards lost big time in spite of all those wonderful “prospects” they got in the trade. (though they did beat the Brewers in the W.S.)David Green was out of the majors by the age of 26. http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/greenda03.shtml

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

who knows how many toes a 2-toed sloth has? careful! this is a trick question. your answers, please.

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I notice Salty’s likelyhood of stardom as predicted by you has risen from 80 to 85 now to 95% in the last two weeks. Have you been in on some BP with him during that time we don’t know about?

JJS, my answer is…as many as uh, Chipper? :-)

By KC

December 10, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

Robert: You’re right on the money about Giles. So he had an off-year, while having to acclimate the leadoff role. Okay. Look at what this guy has done year after year in Atlanta.

If no one is willing to offer a reasonable return for Giles… fine, keep him. According to DOB, we’re not over budget right now. So bring Giles back, for God’s sake - bat him 2nd where he’s most comfortable, and by the time the trade deadline rolls around, there will be teams out there looking for offense. Keep him at least long enough to get his trade value up.

But I say again… BAT HIM 2nd!!!! Heck, he was here first (before Renteria). And other than a reputation for being a clutch hitter, I’m not sure what Renteria brings to the table offensively that Giles doesn’t.

In a typical season, they’ll both hit around .300, with 15 homers, 40 doubles, and 15 stolen bases. They’re smart hitter who like to go the other way with the ball, and they’re both fine defenders.

But come on… we already know what we’ll get from Giles when we bat him 2nd (nothing less than what Renteria gives us there). So if there are no takers right now, let’s keep him and bat him in the 2-hole.

Try Renteria in the leadoff spot. At least he has hit there in the past. If the Braves were to come up with a leadoff hitter for LF, then you can hit Renteria 7th or 8th. What a lineup that would be, if you’ve Renteria hitting 8th!!! It’s already pretty darn good.

Trade Giles (if there’s a fair offer for him) or keep him. He’s just too good to simply cut loose.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

I think Salty is great but there is no guarantee that he will work out. I have another can’t miss prospect, Brad Komminsk. I remember it being said he was the best Braves’ prospect ever, perhaps. With he and Murphy in the lineup the Braves would be unbeatable. Well, Komminsk amounted to absolutely nothing. And the Braves never became unbeatable but the worst team in baseball for five years after Komminsk’s arrival. He was gone within a year and a half if I remember correctly. So, Salty may be great but he is unproven unlike Baldelli who has already proven himself.

By berigan

December 10, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

JJS, glad someone else is posting! I was afraid everyone left, and didn’t tell me where the new blog was(There isn’t a new blog hiding somewheres, right?) Oh, yes 8 toes. Wait, you said he was a 2 toed sloth. 2 toes then!

By KC

December 10, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

My predictions for Braves starters in 07’:

(not including 2nd base and LF, both of which are a bit up in the air right now)

Renteria: .291…16-HR…62-RBI…16-SB

C.Jones: .317…34-HR…102-RBI (I’m going out on a limb here and guessing that he’ll be a little healthier than he was this season.)

A.Jones: .278…47-HR…122-RBI (hey… it’s a contract year.)

McCann: .315…28-HR…102-RBI

Francoeur: .279…34-HR…115-RBI

LaRoche: .291…36-HR…105-RBI

The 3-7 slots in this order could be classified as something of a “Murderer’s Row”. If our pitching is as good as I believe it will be… On paper, I really don’t see a better team in the NL right now.

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

KC, that sounds a lot like a post I made a day or two ago. Looks like we see eye-to-eye on non Hudson issues. Although, DOB earlier did say we couldn’t afford him…my point was is that if neither is better than the other why keep the older, more expensive one who has considerably more trade value? I must really be missing something, ‘cause nobody commented last time I brought that up. Seems perfectly simple to me, unless Giles PO’d management. That’s the only (and I mean THE only) logical reason I can see why my point might not be valid.

Berigan, Jimmy said “Be careful…this is a trick question.” That means it isn’t simple, silly. Ask ncscoots; he admitted the other day to having hooves. He should be wise in the ways of Sloths.

By old timer

December 10, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Baldelli trade with all three of those guys in the deal would be great. Odds are only one makes much impact in the bigs. We can always get more prospects; we draft a bunch of them every year.

I hate that Andruw being gone is a done deal. But isn’t this team for sale? Isn’t it reasonable to assume that if someone pays what it will cost to buy the team they would have a payroll that allows the team to compete?

I don’t think we can win without another top-notch starting pitcher.

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, where do you come up with this stuff???

A two-toed sloth is misnamed. It actually has 3 toes on the front, 2 of which are claws and has 3 claws on the back. So it depends on which you want to count! :-))

(There is also a 3-toed sloth.)

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 10, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

I dont think McCann hits 28 homers….as much as I like him I dont think he has that kinda of power….Bet he get 40 or more doubles though.

By David-ATL14

December 10, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

Shaun what do you not understand about the Giles departure? Quite easy to comprehend. He’s been overated for years especially by posters such as yourself.

There are at least 15 2b better than Giles.

Any team could have him for a mere minor leaguer, yet you foolishly insist Giles is a top flight 2b.

Laughable!

By berigan

December 10, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

KC Can’t argue with your 7:56 post at all! If Giles is hitting .300 in June, and some team also in the hunt has an injured 2nd baseman, or someone hitting .220, they would trade for him. Bugt he has to hit 2nd! Renteria may be an excellent hitter batting 2nd, but as you mention so is Giles. I never could figure out why Renteria didn’t volunteer to bat leadoff, even just for a week to get Giles bat going. Perhaps he did, and the braves said no. But, J.S. couldn’t wait with a then 27 year old Millwood, hot off an 18 win season(A number no pitcher reached this year) for a prospect, albeit one that turned out very well. I wonder if JS is told from above, no matter what, get rid of a contract, that they can’t even risk it for a few months….

By Two Toed Sloth

December 10, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

All I want for Christmas is my two back toes…

By Two Toed Sloth

December 10, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

Berigan, it wouldn’t have mattered if Renteria volunteered until he was blue in the face; Bobby sticks with his decisions no matter what the outcome. Sometimes that’s a good thing; in Giles’ case it most certainly was not. Now we’re having to get rid of one of the best 2b in the league for absolutely nothing because of it (if he’d hit 2nd even most of last year I guarantee he’d be here next year, or teams would be beating down our doors to get him, one).

By Richard Cory

December 10, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

I sincerely hope that it is just stinky over on the Falcons blog, having a little fun, and those are not seperate people blogging. To think that there are that many truly disturbed Falcon fans, is quite alarming. It’s like a whole cauldron full of SJA’s. Be thankful of the relative peace, that exists here.

By Lew

December 10, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

So how many toes does a three toed-sloth have if a two toed sloth has three? This is a confusing question, indeed. Now the Young Elvis-Discussion today of the Young Elvis made me consider the history of Rock Stardom. It appears upon reflection that such Rock Stars as The Beatles and Elvis and Sinatra had young ladies throw undergarments at them during their various performances. Now it is also said that the Composer Franz Liszt was also somewhat of a Rock Star in his own right. I wonder if young ladies of his era threw their undergarments at him as well. Now it is one thing to have an item purchased at Victoria’s Secret land at your feet and another altogether to be hit upside the head by a whalebone corset. Oh, the Humanity.

By brian

December 10, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

DOB - who was the scout who noticed John Smoltz in the Tigers system? Somebody here will know the exact stats but wasn’t he like 7-8 with an ERA >4 in single A when the Braves plucked him for Alexander??

As far as Giles, we are looking through rose colored glasses, and I think most of us do understand if we cannot afford him, we cannot afford him. The Millwood trade really helped that point sink in. What we don’t understand is why cannot there be some leeway before the season starts? It seems to me like nobody will trade for Giles because it is obvious the Braves will non-tender him. Why can’t someone in Time Warner give JS the go ahead to tender him with the understanding that JS will clear the $5million in payroll by the season or deal Giles for appropriate value by spring training? Time Warner simply needs to let JS give the impression that they are not going to let their players like Giles go for nothing even if they up their payroll one year even if there is a closed door agreement with JS that he will trade Giles within 1-2 months (instead of the 1 week or so he had after Maddux agreed to arbitration). FOR THE GOOD OF THE BRAVES, act like the Braves owner, instead of the Braves as a burden

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

Oops…berigan that last post about Giles was me. I’ve been exposed as a Sloth; my Mother would feel vindicated. :-)

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

Lew, that is FUNNY!

By Bobbymahlon

December 10, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

You have to be out of your mine to trade Salty,Escobar and Davies for Baldelli. Any two of the three but not all three. If we stick with the team we got right now it looks pretty good to me. What with Wickman for the entire year along with Soriano and some of our young guns in the bullpen we are ok out there plus Hampton back our starters look good enough. Don’t give Giles away for nothing,sign him for one year until Escobar is ready and trade him in the middle of the season if Escobar is ready.Lead off with Diaz or Langerhans and drop Giles to eighth and see how he likes that.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

esteemed journalist has his first romantic date with Lance Bass tonight. wish journalist jimmy luck. journalist will clean his toes tonight for the occasion. toes are not to be trifled with. Oh the humanity!

By Lew

December 10, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

Well, one thing about being out of your mine-you don’t have to worry about cave ins.

By berigan

December 10, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I thought that was Robert, with all that vicious Bobby bashing! ;)

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

journalist must be out of journalist’s mine as well. there were some good guesses. the two-toed sloth has been exposed as a three-toed sloth which is also what the three-toed sloth is. hope that clears-up the matter for all. grinch is wise in suggesting that there may be a uh, ballplayer on this team that has toes in this same configuration. not certain, just a rumor. and robertjitb brings back memories of brad komminsk - how about barry bonnell? and who will remember andy marte? way has been cleared for andy to start at 3b for cleveland in 2007. indians should be set there for awhile.

By Lance Bass

December 10, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

Stinky call me!!!!Mean I miss you terribly! I’m over at SJA’s right now!! Hugs and Kisses!!!!!!!!!!!

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 10, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this

Since the blog has gone the way of sloths, and as always, toes, here is my non-baseball comment for the night.

I am convinced that the “Iron Chef” show’s “secret ingredient” (Ostrich tonight) is revealed to the chef’s in advance of the show - no way they come up with this stuff in an hour, give direction to the other cooks, etc. I could come up with one or two dishes in that time, but 5? No way, Jose’.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this

now, how about that? someone posting as jimmy smith while journalist was composing a post of journalist’s own … who could it be?

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

use any pimentoes in that dish, scalp’em? and just what is pimentoe cheese? is this the cheese used in fudge? many questions. and why is the pimentoe cheese sandwich the favorite fare of patrons at augusta national? and how much does this tasty morsel cost? and who would believe the concession prices there? and why are there no pimentoe cheese sandwiches at the ballpark? many questions.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 10, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Oh I certainly hope one of you stupid little ba$tards makes the mistake of showing up at my house!…or all of you for that matter…

By darrin

December 10, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

no Giles is not 5 million a year good, and i watched a 79 win team this yearwho the hell did you watch and career wise you may be on the numbers but ill give you some 2b better than Giles how bout Todd Walker,robinson cano,yes even dan uggla,and even ronnie belliard were better so what team were you watching stoopid people should know what they are talking about before spouting off at others package Giles and Salty for O. Infante and W. Ledezma from Detroit

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

journalist has prepared his nasty toes for the special one Lance Bass. hopefully lance will not notice the fungi. journalist would love for lance to kiss his toes tonight, because toes are not to be trifled with. Oh the humanity!

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

Lew, that was hilarious. Berigan, I’m not anti-Bobby (I kind of like the old poot for the most part), but there are a couple of qualities he has that drive me batty (pardon the pun). Sticking with obviosly failed decisions for weeks and sometimes months (Giles in leadoff, Reitsma and Sosa anywhere, etc.) is one of them. Righty/lefty no matter any of the other variables routinely is another. Do I want him beheaded in the town square like Robert? No.

Richard Cory, I am a living casualty of the situation you outline. As much as I love the Braves, I love them third to the Bulldawgs and Falcons. Unfortunately, The Dawg blog is unintelligent and the Falcon blog is both unintelligent and exceptionally juvenile and rude. It’s like sitting in a high school detention hall or trying to watch a “debate” on Fox news. I venture to both occasionally anyway, but this is a superior place in every way.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

good time to rotate the tires on his house while there are so many of us there.

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

When did they stop teaching grammar (and punctuation) in schools?

By Richard Cory

December 10, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this

darrin—-have you ever heard of punctuation?

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

Jimmy - good one!! I was just wondering how one would go about looking up that address in the phone book. Which name is the surname?? I can’t decide if we have a village idiot or resident psycho.

By darrin

December 10, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

now to be poetically pointed,If and I say if, I was J.S. i would do the Baldelli trade but i would explore at least the possibillity of a package deal including Giles nad maybe Langerhans,or another player to either the, Pirates for Gonzales or the Tigers for Ledezma,and Infante, or maybe the Rangers for Feldman and R.Tejada

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 10, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Come on over jimmy jerk—see what gets rotated!…

By Richard Cory

December 10, 2006 10:28 PM | Link to this

There’s the “lady” not acting very lady-like again, sticking her big nose where it doesn’t belong.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 10, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

JJS:

Maybe the Braves can figure out a way to cultivate all of the player’s toe cheese and make a sandwich out of it - I’m sure there are some idiots that would buy it. Bet it would smell like a bad cousin to limburger. Now, if they ever drafted or traded a player named Pimen, you’re in business on the Pimen-toe Cheese sandwich at the stadium. If they bring Rocco in, and he’s a hit, how could they resist offering the Bal-deli Sub?

Tell how crazy the world of sports have gotten - the ‘Aints are handing it to the Cowboys tonight. Reggie Bush is the real deal folks.

By Thecoolest

December 10, 2006 10:29 PM | Link to this

Am I the only one that saw the end of DOB’s post at 2:26? The part that talked about getting the reliever from the Pirates we were going to trade LaRoche for?

If you didn’t, it was a rumor saying the Pirates might be interested in Thorman. It’s very iffy, but unless I’m mistaken, we could acquire that lefty reliever we were after at the expense of Thorman?

I don’t hate Mr. Thorman by all means, but I think that’d be a trade we could all agree on. Three relievers with closing potential? A bullpen scenario of worst to first. Very nice.

Excuse this post for becoming too daydream-y, but I would just love for that to happen.

By joebrave

December 10, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with Darrin on Giles some of the bloggers ohere,are completely insane,or just idiots one is as bad as the other. Giles should be packaged with another player and then pull off the Baldelli trade.I would also entertain a deal for Hudson for younger pitching in return.

By Lew

December 10, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

Darrin-Why don’t you go visit the Jacka$$?

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

SCALP!!! Yuuuuuck!!!!

By The Grinch

December 10, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

I think when our bullpen Chad retires he should hang around (get it? Hanging Chad) the stadium and open an olive/ Pimentoe cheese sandwich stand. “Paratoe’s Pimentoes.” Or a sentimental gift shop. “Parantoe’s Mementoes.” Or, a sentimental gift shop that’s olive themed. “Parantoe’s Pimentoe Mementoes.” A critic might pan it by saying “Parantoe’s Pimentoe Mementoe’s are not to be trifled with.” I’ll shut up now and have another drink.

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

SJA, you forgot to change your moniker again. :-))

By Stinky smith

December 10, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

Looks like jimmy smith is going to get a ‘piece of Bass’ tonight.

By joebrave

December 10, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this

Richard andCarolina lady sleep together or are you the same person?

By darrin

December 10, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

jacka$$ makes more sense sometimes and so does the grinch those guys know the braves. Lew go visit Richard you may like him!

By Carolina Lady

December 10, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this

Somebody take the trash out, please. I’m turning in for the night.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 10, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

Don’t think so Carolina “Lady?”—-but it’s for sure that you forgot to change your Depends!…

By darrin

December 10, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Night old bag…

By Adirondackdave

December 10, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Thecoolest - Yes, I saw DOB’s note on Thorman/Gonzalez. I’m sure we’d have to add some talent but I couldn’t agree more with you. Imagine “you get 6 innings, we get 9” night after night!

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 10, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Grinch - the Paronto(e) Pimento(e) Cheese sandwich has potential. How about the Meat-Bal-Deli Hero? Or, the Chipper Roast Beef-Uh-Dipper Sandwich? Or, what if I went to the counter and ordered a McCann of beer? Icehouse, Bud Lite or Sam Adams? (ok - I know Sam Adams doesn’t come in a can - but work wih me here - I’m on a roll) A Corned-mier Beef Sandwich? The Beefy Bob Dog? The marketing possibilities are endless.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 10, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

turns out Lance Bass was never interested in jimmy smith. esteemed journalist got stood up tonight. journalist jimmy will turn his focus to DOB again. will journalist jimmy ever find love? will dob ever let jimmy into his fun house? Oh the humanity!

By Wayne

December 10, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

The Coolest No way does Pittsburgh trade Gonzalez for Thorman. They might be interested in Thorman (whom I personally think will be an OK player) but it would be for somebody like Torres or Grabow.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 10, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

Oh, the Profanity!!!…..

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 10, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

SJA and Damn - say anything, I mean, anything, you want, to the guys in here. Leave the ladies alone. Bet the two of you are the type to slap a woman around because you can. If she hacks you off by what she says, then just ignore it. You don’t have to stretch your pecker onto the counter to impress her. And with your little willies, you ain’t gonna impress or intimidate any of the guys here either. Sheesh, fellas, get a life.

By Rodger

December 10, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

When this blog started, I thought 3 hot prospects/players for one oft injured guy was ridiculous, but I’ve kind of bought into it by now.

My Stipe story-a good friend of mine at the time is Stipes cousin. He was married between the EP and 1st album, and Michael was a groomsman. Between the bachelor party and wedding, I spent 8-10 hours with the guy who said maybe 20-30 words in that time-he mainly stood in the corner in his trenchcoat with his head down. When REM was to make their 1st national appearance on Letterman he wouldn’t even talk to Dave. Just pretty much a weirdo!

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 10, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘em Braves—-here’s a little tid bit for you, boy—if Carolina Lady wants to keep on $hittin’ into the wind, then she has no right to get all offended when it blows back in her face—wade thru $hit, might get a little $hit on you, easy concept, even for a southerner—so if she wants to attach “lady” to her name, then maybe she should also start minding her own business, and act like a lady—as for you, big timer—Any place, Any time, boy!…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 10, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

David ATL14, your assertion that there are 15 better 2B than Giles is laughable, my friend. What 15 2B would those be. In the NL only Uttley and Kent could be classified as better than Giles. In the AL only Cano is a clear cut choice to be better than Giles. Some guys are perhaps as good such as Roberts, Uggla, and Kinsler. But for you to say that there are 15 better 2B in baseball that are better than Giles is silly. If the Braves non-tender him, I guarantee that at least 10 to 12 teams will be signing him. The reason there is no trade interest is that teams know the Braves are up against it financially speaking. Why are other teams going to bail the Braves out and give up players, whether they be major leaguers or prospects when they can simply sign and not give up anybody? The Braves could offer him arbitration but that would be risky for them to do because Giles could get awarded more than $5 million and the price could be too steep. Now, I personally don’t think that is the case. I feel that teams are simply bluffing JS. JS should call their bluff and tender him. Too many teams need upgrades at 2B over the current occupiers. The Astros, Tigers, Red Sox, Blue Jays, A’s, Padres, and even the Mets need a 2B. I said it earlier and I stand by my statement. If Giles is non-tendered he will be offered a contract by Thursday. The guy is 28 years old and one of the top 2B in the majors.

Now, the idea of keeping Giles and barganing him for a trade later in the season is a good idea. Of course, that is contingent on Cox not hitting him in that leadoff spot. The problem with placing Renteria there is that he despises that role worse than Giles does. Would he do it if asked? Of course. Could it affect his production like it did Giles? Very likely.

It was mentioned last night and worth revisiting. That is contacting the Blue Jays about Alex Rios. The Braves could go ahead and offer arbitration to Giles and then offer a package of Giles, Davies, and Langerhans or Diaz to the Jays for Rios and Royce Clayton. Now, this is if the D-Rays deal falls through. The Braves would free up $4 mil in payroll with the deal. In Rios they would be getting a good young OF who would replace Andruw in 2008 and would more than adequately take over the leafoff role. Rios hit .302 avg 17 HR 82 RBI last season. He did strikeout a lot but he is a raw talent that can be molded. In Clayton the Braves get the veteran Bobby likes and a guy who can come off the bench with some experience and can provide proven depth in the infield.

By Rodger

December 10, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

Another note waaayyy back-yesterdays quotes from Liberty-sounds like no chance of increased payroll. They couldn’t care less about baseball. We’ve just moved to another level of hell!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

SouthernJackass, isn’t your sister lonely or something, man. Why don’t you leave good people alone and go “tend” to her okay. Carolina Lady is the finest of fine ladies and she doesn’t need or deserve the dregs of humanity like you messing with her. What is your deal, dude? Do you just get your rocks off coming here p** off people, insulting DOB, and being a world class jackoff. Is your life so empty that it has come to you being on a baseball blog harrassing innocent people? Are you so pathetic that you are reduced to being the single biggest idiot to ever be on this blog? Really, dude. Whatever the girls said about you in high school is old stuff. Let it go. So they called you a wretched mangy bottom feeding a**clown. So what? Let it go. Grow up, okay. Let people come here and do what this blog is intended for. And that is discuss Braves’ baseball and occassionally some music even if DOB thinks that Boyz II Men is watered down R&B, which he is totally wrong about. Ginuwine is watered down. Boyz II Men is soulful. Anyway, off subject. SJA go give your sister some “brotherly love” and leave the good people here alone.

By Scalp 'em Braves

December 11, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this

SJA - your name is a perfect moniker for you - unless it was changed to “SJO” - for Southern Jerk Off. Your threats are as empty as the cranial cavity that is supposed to house your brain - instead of blood, gray matter and spinal fluid, yours seems to have nothing but vinegar and venality. I said what I said because there is no reason to say the things you do to her. I’ll bet you beat up your sister growing up too. A man doesn’t try to prove his superiority over a woman, girl, female, weaker sex, lady, or however one wants to try to describe the fairer gender, by being a smart a$$ all the time, as you seem to be inclined to do. The thing that intrigues me is that you do amke good comments on the Braves situation. Not that I agree with all of them, but they are valid. Why them do you feel then need to put down CL, who is a nice person, and only gets offended when you show your (undoubtedly) big a$$?

AS for meeting you “anytime, any place”, no thanks. I have much better things to do than show my “manhood” by taking up your offer to show how primitive you are. I probably more money in a day than you do in a week. I’ve better things to do with my time that deal with a redneck d-i-c-k-w-a-d than you. I’ll not read or respond to any post you make in the future - not that you won’t retaliate here, now, and in the future.

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

Scalp, you are indeed on a roll. Your idea for the Chipper sandwich got me thinking about a fan base…”Chipper’s Dippers,” a redneck section where spitcups are built into the seats’ armrests. Why not? Stupider things abound.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

Robert,

Voice of Dissent, regarding this post: “DOB , your trade proposal of a catcher , shortstop and pitcher for an (baldelli) outfielder is well , um let me just say that there is a reason you are a beat writer and JS is a GM.”

Well, um, that wasn’t MY proposal. Or maybe you misread the blog. I was reporting what the Braves are CONSIDERING, now anything I’d proposed. Actually being considered. Real world stuff.

Now, whether they’d have to give up all three, or would, I’m not clear on. But those are the names I was told, and chance that all three would go to T.B.

Good thing you’re neither a GM nor a beat writer, considering how you misread that blog…

Oh, and I just scrolled back up while writing this, and noticed that GermanBravesFan dropped in paragraph from Gammons regarding the Soriano trade, the one you somehow saw as a “salary dump” that, if I’m not mistaken, you believe Seattle got the best of? Wow. I’m speechless. You can actually look at those two pitchers and believe the Braves got screwed on that deal? Well, at least there’s one of you. Maybe you should go online with Mariners fans and help settle them down. They want their GM fired over the deal….

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:18 AM | Link to this

Flange, really cool stuff about Buck. Can’t even imagine how cool that would’ve been to see him hop onstange and jam with Husker Du. Wow. And the Clash album picture _ too bad you didn’t get in it. Then you’d have had a truly good story forever….

4:31 post today _ now that’s BRINGING IT. Whew. Strong post….

By GermanBravesFan

December 11, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this

DOB… I thought it would help if we through a Peter Gammons quote in here. Maybe people will FINALLY believe that Schuerholz pulled off another masterpiece!

By GermanBravesFan

December 11, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

ooop… I meant “threw” not “through”… all that time spent as a journalism major at Georgia College & State University in good ol’ Milledgeville has to pay off at some point!

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this

Big Daddy, you’ve got a handle on it with this post:

“For all of you worrying about Marcus, don’t; he will wind up with a very good free agent contract. Not tendering him is very much like not tendering Dannys Baez. Baez is a good pitcher but the Braves couldn’t afford him in the package. Marcus is a good second baseman but the Braves can’t afford him. Something similar is going to happen every year; get used to it.”

Very true. At least as long as the payroll is the middle to bottom half of ‘ball. And it’ll be in the bottom half this year, for sure. Maybe close to bottom third…

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 12:24 AM | Link to this

DOB, I hope you don’t think I was agreeing with Voice of dissent. Because that is definitely not true. I think trade is great. Yes, I have reservations about Escobar but if he is what it would take to get the deal done, then I’m all for it. I did ask if you thought this deal would get done. Also, have you talked to Giles or heard what he thinks about this situation? Is there any chance the Braves offer him arbitration and keep him?

Also, have the Braves contacted other teams like the Blue Jays, Angles, or Tigers about filling either LF or 2B?

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

AthensRotgut (love the screen name, by the way), you write: “I was fortunate enough to see Widespread Panic cover one of their songs for Halloween this year in Vegas and they rocked the house! Id love to hear more stories about ATHENS from back in the day or more about REM. (sorry DOB im not a man in black fan)”

You saw WP in Vegas? Had to be a gas. Regarding Athens, all I know is, when I was attending school in Lawrence, Athens was THE music scene, so cool we almost drove down there for spring break (fortunately we came to our senses and went further to Ft. Liquordale (back when it was still spring break capital) and Daytona backt-to-back years…. But Athens was the place, before Seattle, Austin and others had their day with that title….

I think I’d take the Austin music scene over any other right now. And hey, that paper’s owned by Cox. Too bad no baseball team to cover (or any pro sports team, for that matter)….

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:30 AM | Link to this

Robert, I absolutely knew you weren’t. I screwed up, starting typing a post to you, then got sidetracked and answered Dissent, but forgot to take your name off. Just a typo, nothing more. Disregard

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 12:30 AM | Link to this

G’ night blog…..

Stinky how much you betting that I dont have ENG 101?

Let me know the time an place and I will show you my 4.0. Can you afford 3K?

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

Wyz, to be able to say you saw the first Pistols show in the U.S. _ that’s rich stuff, dude. Wish I could say the same. Can’t match that, or even come close. Did see Nirvana in one of their last, oh, 10-15 shows before Kurt offed himself….

Oh, and I saw Dylan do a warmup show at a small club in Fort Lauderdale, the night before he opened his tour at Sunrise, Fla. Had to know someone to get tickets to the “secret” warmup show, and it was phenomenal (at least what I remember). Years later, AJC’s Mark Bradley (big Dylan fan) tells me how that show is legendary among Dylanphiles, and he actually had a bootleg CD of it (the warmup show, that is). So he gives me a copy and I finally get to hear what I’d, uh, forgotten from that night. And it was amazing. I do remember being about 10 feet in front of Bob during the show….

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 11, 2006 12:37 AM | Link to this

Robert(Justice is The Best)—-scroll back up on the blog you limp-wristed, pimple-faced punk and see for yourself just who started this $hit—and you’re damn right, I will defend myself—I had left this stupid-a$sed blog as of yesterday, came back in today just read the comments, nothing else, and what do I find?—you f******* a@sclowns still talking trash about good ol’ SJA—Now I’m going to tell you and however else that needs to hear it—I didn’t go to the MF’n jungles of Vietnam to fight for this damn country, see the things that I saw, and spill my own damned blood just so I could come back here and a few years later be told that the freedom of speech that some brave men fought and died for just isn’t quite for me now, nor be bullied by punks like you!—No, Hell No!!…ain’t going to happen!…So you and these other half-wit candy-a$ses can just lay off me…and take this little blog and cram right up your a$s!…it’s going to take better men than the sleezy scum crawling around this blog to get the better of me…and if that isn’t clear enough, let me know!…

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Billy, you asked: “Do you think the Braves are going to wait until the last minute Tuesday to make a move with Giles? My guess is the longer he goes without being dealt the better chance there is he gets cut.”

Yes, I’d think they’re trying hard to trade him right up to the last minute, though it’s unlikely they’ll get much at this point. Only reason a team would trade for him now is if they believe they’d get outbid for his services by another team after Giles becomes a free agent. Otherwise, no reason to give up a lot of talent for a guy who could well become a free agent Tuesday.

A LOT of teams are waiting to see which players go non-tendered Tuesday before they do anything else.

By Lee

December 11, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Hey,lets assume the Baldelli deal falls througj. What is plan B for the Braves?

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:45 AM | Link to this

Berigan, many things I can only say with a degree of uncertainty, but regarding your question _ “wonder if JS is told from above, no matter what, get rid of a contract, that they can’t even risk it for a few months” _ I can say with absolute certainty: No one, no how, tells Schuerholz who to get rid of. Ever.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

Wait, as soon I hit “post” on that last message, I remembered the one exception, the one person who can tell, or at least strongly suggest, that Schuerholz get rid of someone: B.C.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:51 AM | Link to this

JJC, would you believe I have a “monkey” lamp? Not with “see no evil, hear no evil…” but just two monkey sitting against a palm tree. Actually quite nice, thank you very much…. Actually had that when married. She liked it. Now, the Elvis lamp, I don’t know. But she’d probably like it. She dug some kitzchy stuff, long as wasn’t a house full of it….

But it might be getting that way now. An Elvis bust (from Niagara Falls gift shop 15 years ago on a Miami Dolphins trip), now an Elvis lamp. What is happening to me? I sense a downward spiral….

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan, I did not attend that particular institution as a student, but I have been to several week-long writing conferences there. You didn’t by chance happen to have Marty Lammon as a teacher, did you? He mostly does comp and creative writing but perhaps you’ve met him (he hosts all these writing conferences and has several fairly impressive writing/editing credits to his name)…about 5’9, stocky, neat-bearded, cool dude. He would undoubtedly remember me as a holy terror. Just curious. Cool cemetary there too, no?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 12:54 AM | Link to this

SJA, has anyone ever suggested prozac to you? Just wondering? I like how you always refer to the “gay” insults when someone puts you in your place. Your attacking Carolina Lady is gutless and just further evidence that your are a bottom feeding hemorrhoid. Hey, pal, I’m not taking away your freedom of speech. Say whatever you want. Just be prepared to get back what you give.

And, by the way, please don’t make references to cramming things up aes and the such. I know that is YOUR cup of tea (to have things crammed up your a) but its not mine. You have a lot of hostility. I understand. It must be hard when even a prostitute is like, “Um…..No, man. Not even for $500. I have some dignity.” I feel you, bro. Its okay. Some of us have “it” and some of us don’t. Some people are winners and some are..well, you.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:58 AM | Link to this

Chipper’s Dippers…genius. Grinch, you do your best work late at night.

By the way, just watched a rather exhilarating movie, “Running Scared,” which, as one reviewer accurately described, “makes Kill Bill look like Sesame Street.” Ebert said it was “so over-the-top, I am in awe.”

Great story, Italian AND Russian mobs going after Peter Walker’s character, more shooting, ear-chewing, and other slow-motion violence than you can imagine, but it works. Gritty, dark, edgy movie, like less-arty Scorcese from late ’70s. (Now, don’t get me wrong, not comparing it to Scorcese, don’t want to oversell it; it’s not THAT good. But it’s cool and definitely worth renting, if you haven’t seen it.)

Let’s put it this way _ I have 24 bags of leaves on my street from a 3-hour raking session today, and was so tired that none of the three stories on 60 minutes kept me away. But when I put this movie on, I was wired in, man.

By N8

December 11, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this

Hey! What’s the pulse in the City of Atlanta towards Michael Vick? My Chiefs offensive line is gonna get somebody killed soon. They need a QB that can run….run for his life, more like it. LOL!

Sorry I was “out” today. Looks like a lot of good stuff for me to scroll through in the wee hours os the morning.

DOB….ANY chance we can trade Giles to the Yankees for AROD???

Just kidding. I just can’t believe how many people STILL don’t get the fact that we CAN’T keep him, due to money. Even at only a 2 million bucks he’d be too pricey. I thought I had a thick skull.

Man do people HATE me on those Chiefs message boards. It’s nice to come “home” to where people actually…ahem! “like me”. LOL!

DOB. Are you a Queen fan? I popped by the Best Buy the other day (man do I HATE that store.), saw the DVD with Paul Rodgers singing from the last tour. Freddie Mercury was great and all, but DAMN! can Paul Rodgers sing! I’m not a really big Bad Company fan, but for some reason I like the combo of him with Queen. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Brian May’s guitar playing. Sweet tone!

By TheWyzyrd

December 11, 2006 01:03 AM | Link to this

DOB, Guess its time to bring out the big guns: I saw Dylan at Newport in 1965!!! Still have my program and ticket stubs. I grew up just outside of Newport and my parents used to take me to the Jazz and festivals. Still got those programs, too. Saw Billie Holiday in 1957 but I really don’t remember anything. I was too busy running around having fun with all the other 9 year-olds. Anyway, I had been going to the folk festivals since 1959 (first one). I was not itno it very much , I was an Elvis, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Buddy Knox and Conway twitty fan back then. Kingston Trio wasn’t me. Anway, I was there when Joanie brought him out in 1963 and was hooked ever since. He played again in 1964, but, of course, 1965 was the real deal. I’d love to tell you about it, but couldn’t do it justice in this space. A few years back Russ DeVault (former AJC rock writer). One of my old running around buddies, wrote an piece on me and my recollections of the Pistols. Still have my unused ticket to that one. complete with a little hole for a safety pin. They knew me at the door so they let me keep the ticket. Probably the only one in existence! Went to Woodstock in college. Too crazy, but I was too far gone for my own good. Went back in 1994. I remember all of that! Especially Dylan. Went on the road with the Eagles in 1979 and early 1980. By 1982 I was in rehab and weighed 112 pounds. Al Levine took in CSN at the Omni when I got out, but I ran into my connection and it really wigged me out. Pretty music stayed away from the concert scene until the early 1990s. Started managing local bands. Bought a rock club, the Avodale Towne Cinema, that was the best sounding room in Atlanta. Only held 350. Put in a 24-track recording studio and started producing albums. Got close with a couple of groups (Shrunken Head and Monster Leon), but it turned into a real expensive good time. Then I opened a rock ‘n’ roll collectibles store in Avondale Estates. Did pretty well, but felt to confined to the store. So, I took my stuff on the road until the internet came a long and now I’m a charter eBay guy. Great hours and great money. Not all grueling!!!! TheWyz

By stinky

December 11, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this

SJA how’d they know you me and darrin all live in a trailer? and not one of them fancy double wides neither? Hey SJA the boss at the piggly wiggly said to tell you to get yor head out of yor a** and to be on time for once on the night shift! Those toliets ain’t gonna clean themselves!!!

By athens rotgut

December 11, 2006 01:06 AM | Link to this

DAVE

Panic at the MGM was crazy. i saw them the day before too and it was fire. it was my first time to Vegas (1st time West of N.O.) and i overdid it to the max. my memory is close to non-existant. i kinda screwed myself in hindsight. ive been told i missed out on a lot of fun. You should try to make it to Philips for 12/30 or 12/31 and check out * Jimmy Herring * on lead guitar now for the band. Everybody, the band, the crew, the whole scene just seems so much more lively and rejuvenated. but yeah im going to cut back for new years and make sure i remember the show.

Go braves!

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 11, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this

Robert—you’re a real classy sumbitch aren’t you?—must be one of those gutless, hide behind your mama’s apron boys—oh, you’ve “it” that’s for sure…

By Daybed Wagmoe

December 11, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

here’s an REM story that is actually braves-related: a few years ago, my friends and i went to a braves game planning to get dollar seats. they were sold out, and the cheapest seats were for $12, and we didn’t want to spend that much money. so we left, and as we were driving away from the stadium (turner field was on our left as we were driving up hank aaron drive), we were at the intersection right behind a limo. well, we’re looking at it and out steps MIKE MILLS along with several friends.

in 2004, my dad and i went to the braves-cubs game on easter, and we saw LARRY CAMPBELL (bob dylan’s guitarist at the time) in the section in front of us. bob was in atlanta playing a three-night stint at the tabernacle that started the next night. i talked with him after the game, and he was incredibly nice.

By Milo Hamilton and Ernie Johnson

December 11, 2006 01:11 AM | Link to this

If we’d only known the horrors of Vietnam are what made the SJA the complete mess of a human being he is today, I’m sure we all would have been more understanding of him and shown more patience with his violent rants and tired tirades. I, for one, salute you, JackAss! Bray on, baby!

By GermanBravesFan

December 11, 2006 01:23 AM | Link to this

Grinch… I do not know the gentleman in question. I took classes from various professors, but didn’t run into him. I graduated in ‘92, so maybe he came after I left. I haven’t been back lately since I have moved to California, but I had a blast in M’ville. Just imagine: a bunch of international students getting into baseball (a game NOBODY cares about in Europe) because of the ‘91 Miracle Season. Needless to say, I have been hooked ever since! I just kinda sucks that TBS shows less Braves games these days. Oh well, I am sure I’ll make it back for a trip next spring and watch a game or two!

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 11, 2006 01:24 AM | Link to this

Those freakin’ North Vietnamese “gooks” had more class than this bunch o’ fu cks!…you people belong with each other—I won’t be back!

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 01:31 AM | Link to this

Innate, I won’t get into Vick here and now ‘cause I’m drunk and that’s a big discussion. What I WILL do is tell you what happened to your Chiefs. You ran into a PROPER defence. Baltimore gets all kind of crap for its offense, and most of it’s deserved, but trust me (I have a fair amount of experience), the Ravens have the best D in the league no matter what the stats or talking heads might say. No shame in getting stopped by that crew.

By Milo Hamilton and Ernie Johnson

December 11, 2006 01:34 AM | Link to this

In 2001, I saw Stonewall Jackson perform all of his great country hits from the ’50s and ’60s at a dive called The Opry in Montgomery, Alabama. Does that make any of you Dylan and REM worshipers jealous?

And that’s not all — I live less than a mile from Hank Williams’ grave! You gotta admit, that’s pretty cool.

By TheSouthernJackAss

December 11, 2006 01:37 AM | Link to this

…and one more thing before I do go—you people would never have disrespected me, nor talked to me in the manner that some of you have directly to my face, never!

By TheWyzyrd

December 11, 2006 01:38 AM | Link to this

DOB, I read something the other day in one of Peter Gammons’ blogs. Seems Hampton told Glavine that he went to the Braves and said he’d restucture his contract so both pitchers would make a combined $15 mil this year. I assume its old news, but is there anything to it? TheWyz

By futurebravesgm2413

December 11, 2006 01:38 AM | Link to this

DOB, I’m going to college at TX State U which is in San Marcos 30 miles or so south of Austin. I have always thought you’d love the music scene up in Austin. It is just awesome. Live music anytime, anyday. I’m not sure how big of fan you are of Texas Country like Pat Green, Jack Ingram, etc. I’ll trade you. Next time you come to TX I’ll give you a tour. And when I come to Atlanta you give me a tour of the Braves clubhouse. Deal?

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 01:42 AM | Link to this

GBF, that’s entirely possible. My first foray there was in about 2000. Yeah, that situation IS rather remarkable…I can’t imagine what it would take to get me into soccer. :-) I do like that (Milledgeville)campus though. Especially as a writer you can sit on that huge, long front porch with columns as you write (looking at the Civil War era trees) and then walk about 75 yds. to all the bars across the street and stagger back again to the dorm without having to drive…good stuff.

By GermanBravesFan

December 11, 2006 01:55 AM | Link to this

Grinch: I remember those days… We didn’t stagger back some nights, we crawled!
As for getting into soccer: I think it’s a lost cause in the U.S.; could be because of the low scoring or the fact that one isn’t allowed to use one’s hands. :-)
I still don’t know all the little things about baseball but I feel confident enough to throw in my two cents on this blog on occasion. Just blows my mind that some people still don’t get the fact that Giles will be gone; baseball economics are a sad reality. But I am sure Giles won’t starve after the Braves will non-tender him! Gotta love the fact that it’s only about two months until pitchers and catchers report for Spring Training!!!

Here’s my proposal for a line-up:

Baldelli Renteria Jones Jones McCann Laroche Francouer Prado/Orr

Pitchers: Smoltz Hampton Hudson James Cormier

I feel good about the upcoming season - that is, if the Braves can get Baldelli!

By Mattattack

December 11, 2006 01:56 AM | Link to this

I have to tell ya.. I have been a braves fan for along time. and generally we tend to stay in house. bringing guys up who step in a do a great job. chipper, gant, giles, jones.. but this was during a time when massive contracts werent being thrown around like candy. we have consistantly lost to teams that are spending the money right now. im not bitter about the pay cut three years ago, but i would like to see something being done. and a trade like this spikes my intrest. i love baldelli, he is an incredible athlete. those young guys will not impact this team for another three years. dont we want to win now?? smoltz, hampton, jones, jones, franc, laroche, hudson.. the time is now for this team isnt it. how many of those names are around when those guys make it up to atlanta. not many.. i say lets make the deal. lets put the best team together now with the vets we have. just a thought.. i love these braves, and im ready to see a big deal like this from us.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 11, 2006 02:15 AM | Link to this

As we know how cheap Baldelli would cost for the next 5 years is the biggest sticking point to why we should do the deal. Without Andruw next year we have only one major league OF. Having an all star calibar player whos young is more valueable than what Escbar and Salty could ever be. Getting Baldeli helps us win now and in the future. We need to go all out for a World Series title in 07. Last year we have Andruw, chipper and smoltz nearing their ends, wickman getting older. This is the year we go for it.

By GermanBravesFan

December 11, 2006 02:16 AM | Link to this

Alright, y’all - I am outta here. Leaving for the homeland tomorrow - Happy Holidays!!! Let’s hope the Braves can make the trade for Baldelli!

By akirell

December 11, 2006 02:22 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB, if you liked “Running Scared” you should check out “Lucky Number Slevin.” Though it’s not nearly as gory, it’s got a cool spin on a mob story and it’s really fun. The cast is star studded: Josh Hartnett, Bruce Willis, Ben Kingsley (plays “the Rabbi” who heads a Jewish mob), and Morgan Freeman (who heads the rival mob).

Very fun watch and it has some beautiful shots thrown in there occasionally.

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 02:29 AM | Link to this

Yeah, GBF; the cops do tend to look the other way as long as you’re not actually shouting or gesticulating wildly. The Opera House was my favorite bar just because of its historic background and feel (though it was only recently re-opened when i first got there). Soccer…I don’t know. It’s very popular among America’s youth to play, but as for catching on with adults…I guess we are like monkeys in that we do love to use our hands (yes, I’m making a potentially crude referrence). As for not knowing all the little things about baseball, don’t worry; most of us here don’t either. You’re right in that Giles won’t starve, and you’re also right in that most of us don’t realize what we’re giving up. In fact, it p** me off so much I’m gonna save it for a discourse to be posted tommorrow (or later today). Bah! The only clue I’m gonna give is that Time Warner is gonna get it in the rear, big time.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 02:45 AM | Link to this

love the conversation here some late nights. all over the board, and interesting. Wyz, you’ve had one helluva an amazing music journey. so much i’d love to hear about.

Running Scared is good, huh Akirell? How long’s it been out? I don’t remember it at the theatres. By the way, I said Peter Walker. It’s Paul Walker. Intense actor. And Chaz Palminteri is great it in as a crooked cop….

Just watched the season finale of Wired. Best show on TV. And who pops up in a cameo role at the end, Steve Earle. Talk about random….

And yes, Lucky Number Slevin’s very cool flick. Bruce Willis is actually quite good in that….

Robert (JIB), speaking of R&B, you have either of Van Hunt’s CDs? Now THAT is some great current R&B.

Alright, that’s it for me.

By DonCoburleone

December 11, 2006 03:06 AM | Link to this

If we trade Davies, we better get another starter before the season starts who can challenge for the #5 spot in the rotation with…… WHO??? Lance Cormier, are the Braves serious with this one???

I am worried about dealing too many starters… I do remember last year before the season started hearing about how we won’t have to worry about our starting rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, HoRam, John Thomson, Kyle Davies and Jorge Sosa… Yeah, alot of “depth” was talked about then too, and look how that turned out. HoRam, Davies, and Thomson collectively spent more time on the DL than on the field, and Jorge Sosa (well, we all know what happened there.)

And so now this year, I’m supposed to believe that our starting rotation is so much improved from last year?

I don’t think so, and here is why: Hampton replaces HoRam (a wash until Hampton can prove something), Lance Cormier replaces Jorge Sosa (Sosa actually had a MUCH better 2005 compared to Cormier’s 2006), and Chuck James replaces John Thomson (a definite upgrade over Thomson but Chucky is still UNPROVEN, despite whatever arguments and statistics you can throw out)… And then we are left with Davies as a 6th starter again… So, IMO, until Hampton can prove he’s capable of starting 30+ games in a season, our starting rotation is no better going into this year than it was going into 2006.

By DonCoburleone

December 11, 2006 03:09 AM | Link to this

DOB, do you agree?

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 04:02 AM | Link to this

DonC, I normally agree with you but…

Hampton and HoRam a wash? Hampton’s “proved” more in his time than Hudson and HoRam together could ever hope to. He’s coming off TJ surury, but he’s had his 18 months without rushing and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he ties Smoltz next year as our best pitcher. Cormier and Sosa? Yeah, in ‘05 Cormier was injured and Sosa wasn’t. In ‘06, same diff, though as Cormier got further along in rehab he became a pretty good 5th starter; Sosa (without any injury) decided to suck without explanation. Big diff. I agree Chuck is unproven and I’m not sure what to expect out of him, but Davies is Lord help us gone and if he isn’t he will be (lord help us) in AAA at most. Vulture is as good as Thompson (or close, and much cheaper). I don’t think it’s gonna be that bad, especially with the much improved bullpen taking pressure off all of them. G’night, all; I should’ve gone to bed a long time ago (then again, if I’d done everything I should’ve…whatever).

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 04:05 AM | Link to this

Don, to a degree, yes. Which migh be why they decide not to trade Davies. Bobby said other day he hated traded Horacio because it reduced their rotation candidates, left them with so little depth. So unless they have another in mind through trade or six-year free agent type guy, yes, it does leave them down to Cormier and Villarreal as only other obvious candidates besides Davies for fifth spot.

Anyway, just came down to turn off office lights, etc. Fell asleep in my recliner again. And in case anybody noticed, I said “Wired” when I meant “The Wire” for best show. OK, like anybody cares. Later

By TMac

December 11, 2006 04:24 AM | Link to this

You don’t give up that much talent unless you are getting a quality starting pitcher in return. Baldelli is an above average outfielder but how much will he really improve our team? We scored plenty of runs last year. For every great move that JS makes he makes a boneheaded one. (This reminds me of the Justice, Jermaine Dye deal)If we are going to continue to operate on a tight budget we need to insure there’s a steady flow of prospects ready to step in when a we can’t afford to sign our own free agents.

By Thecoolest

December 11, 2006 04:36 AM | Link to this

In retrospect… I doubt any GM’s clumsy enough to give that big a return for Thorman.

Must’ve been on a “Bullpen Awesomeness” high.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 07:41 AM | Link to this

SJA, you said that you aren’t coming back. Is that a promise or another one of your empty threats? I feel dirty for even getting into it with you. You are the scum of the earth, my friend. It must be miserable living every day of your life hating people, using racial slurs, being so vile and repulsive that not even small children will talk to you, and having to come on a baseball blog to prove your manhood. And you say I’m a class act? Nobody says class like you, pal. Nobody!

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 11, 2006 08:00 AM | Link to this

What people must understand is that JS is considering the Baldelli trade because he is looking beyond 2007. Andruw isn’t coming back. Give up the dream. Please, for your own sanity. Liberty Media has already said multiple times that the payroll isn’t going to increase and if it does it won’t be that much. For the Braves to keep Andruw the payroll would need to incrase by $10 mil at least especially when considering that Hudson is getting a raise and if Smoltz has another year like last year the Braves will be in a bidding war for him. Those are just the facts. I have questioned some of JS’ moves but the one thing I love about the guy is that he is always looking into the future. Lets say 2007 is his and Cox’s last season. He is trying to leave the franchise in a good position when he leaves. Give him some credit for that.

By flange1

December 11, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

Good Morning All!

Wow, Wyz, we have crossed pathes many times! I too was at the Pistols show, I thought it more a media frnzy than a musical event. The first time I saw the Clash was a much better musical experience,

By the way at www.gibson.com is a great interview with Mick Jones about the Clash and yes all, a Wurlitzer plays a mighty role in that band…

Di you see the Cockroaches at the Fox? That was a great night and a great story…The Stones at the Fox….best night of my life!

2 more REM stories and I will quit, in terms of the trenchcoat that Michael wore, lord he had dozens and wore them in the summer as well as the winter. I went to a how at 688 with my brother to see Jason and the Scorchers who are the best county punk band bar none and long time friends of REM. Well, we see a guy walk in with a black trenchcoat, big sunglasses and a a big floppy hat that really came out past his sholders. We knew it was Michael. He did like to do the disguise thing but he really just wanted to be left alone. Of course we didn’t! My brother is a major fan of the song “Shaking Through” and we asked Michael what it was about. My brother had this whole deal worked about about nuclear war, blah blah, Michael listened to us, laughed and walked away. I see an article in a music magazine a month later and Michael says that he was apprached by “2 young politicos” who wanted to make Shaking Through a political thing! He ended the article saying it was just a pop song. Interesting to hear now that everything he does is political….

On the David Letterman show, I actually talke to Peter about it the day they got back to Athens from doing the show. They were all so nervous playing on TV for the first time and playing a new song (South Central Rain) Peter said Michael was throwing up constantly and that he could not look at Dave without gagging!!! Peter did a great job on that song with his new Ric 12 string. He was worried he would botch it. Ric 12’s are not the easiest guitar in the world to play……

Anyway, thanks for listening to my stories! Hopefully we will have some more Braves news to discuss today.

By Richard Cory

December 11, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

Well, well. Where to start? First let me say that, after my 8:50pm post concerning the Falcons blog, I retired from this blog for the evening. Henceforth, the 10:10 and the 10:28pm post, directed at darrin, and Carolina Lady, were not from me. This should not surprise anyone since most of you ‘regulars’ have been subjected to impersonations yourself. I apologize if I stirred up the ‘hornets’ nest by mentioning stinky and SJA in my post. My intent was to contrast the two blogs[Falcons & Braves], not to make them the same. The most crass thing you will probably hear from me, will be my ‘stinky SALUTE’. If someone is bashing another under my moniker, I hope you all will recognize the cretin for who he is. By the way, most, in fact very few ‘tourist’ from the Nam, would rant like SJA does. Most of those, that were messed up to that degree are no longer among the living.Those who avoided the ‘internal hell’ have long since adjusted and mellowed and seek mostly peace and tranquility. If certain ‘folks’ like to deceive and hide behind anonymity, they also most likely try to impress with lies and distortions concerning their whole existence. Sorry for the long rant.

By KC

December 11, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

brian: As far as Giles, we are looking through rose colored glasses, and I think most of us do understand if we cannot afford him”

Brian, unless I misunderstood him… DOB lined out the payroll in a previous blog, and state that the Braves could actually afford to keep Giles. They just won’t have any wiggle room whatsoever if they do so.

I say, so be it! You can have all the wiggle room later in the year by trading him midway through the season when his trade value will be higher.

Keep Giles (for now), bat him 2nd and Renteria leadoff or 8th (depending on whether or not we get a leadoff guy in LF).

By braves fan

December 11, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

I have to disagree with DonC when he says Chuck James is unproven. He went 11-4, 3.78 ERA with 91 SO in 119 innings as a rookie starter. You can call it flukey if you like, but you’d be showing your ignorance of Chuck James’ career. This is just a continuance of his performance in the minor leagues. Will he have some hiccups as teams get better scouting on him? Sure. But he’s got ability. He wasn’t pitching above his talent level, he was pitching to it last season.

As for including Davies in a trade with TB for Rocco, I agree, the depleted depth in the starting rotation makes me nervous. But at some point the farm system has to come thru and produce another decent starter, that has to be better than Davies or Cormier. But let’s not forget Oscar Villarreal. He pitched very well in long relief, and later in a starting role. The Braves have to have a contingency plan in place to relieve Andruw Jones in 2008. I thought Carl Crawford would be a good fit, but I’d take Baldelli. The important thing is replacing AJ’s defense in CF (as if that was even possible), because run-producing bats are easy to find to play LF, but not in CF. Rocco or Crawford could play left in 2007, then shift to CF in 2008. I say pull the trigger, cause Davies is never going to be a top of the line starter, Salty will never play C in Atlanta anyway, Escobar is already 24, older than several of the Braves young stars, but Rocco is a proven commodity with a reasonable contract.

By Paul

December 11, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

Dave,

You were saying that the bucs (via a Pitt website) might try another approach and deal Williams to the Braves for Thorman (and another prospect or to) If that did happen, would they look at moving Soriano to the starting rotation. (in place of Horacio-its pretty funny hearing the ESPN people pronouncing his name) Also, if you had put a percentage on Baldelli being traded to the Braves, what would it be?

By Richard Cory

December 11, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

Go f* yourself, San Diego!!

By Paul

December 11, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

meant to say Gonzalez not Williams. Could never get into the Wire. I always loved Six Feet Under and Entourage on HBO. The Sopranos was once good until the last two seasons.

By David-ATL14

December 11, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

Attention Robert and Shaun

Here are the current 2b better than Giles:

NL Uggla-Marlins Utley-Phillies Phillips-Reds Weeks-Brewers Hudson-Diamondbacks Kent-Dodgers Durham-Giants

AL Roberts-Orioles Cano-Yankees Iguchi-White Sox Polanco-Tigers Castillo-Twins Lopez-Mariners

Several others on par with Giles but not clearly better. The “Giles is God” crowd better wake up, he’s a marginal 2b,and when he’s nontendered,there won’t be more than 3-4 teams offering a deal for 1yr, minimal salary.

His agent will claim much interest like the agent for Bonds did. There isn’t more than3-4 teams looking for 2b.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 11, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Speaking of agents, I see where the “Evil One” (read: Boras) has essentially shut down negotiations with the BoSox over the pitcher from Japan. BoSox willing to pay $7-8 million per year (on top of the $51 million they would have to pay to his team in Japan - Bora$$ holding out for $15 million. I gotta hand it to the guy, he gets the big stars, and clearly has made a fortune cranking salaries up. But, I’m sick of him.

Any of you holding out hope that Druw will be reasonable, accept a hometown discount, etc after next year can forget it - Boras doesn’t take any prisoners.

By Wayne

December 11, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

“Atlanta already has been turned down by Tampa Bay despite offering three top prospects, including shortstop Yunel Escobar and catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and the Cubs would be hard-pressed to come up with a better package.”

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061210cubs,1,318637.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

By The Dude

December 11, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Is it just me, or has everyone on the Braves team had Tommy John Surgery?

By NYM

December 11, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Question for the Braves faithful: If the Mets sign Zito, are they favored to win the East again?

By Don

December 11, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Schuerholz isn’t looking to the future as som seem to imply. He has spent his career mortgaging and/or sacrificing the future in order to win one more division championship.

Trading three prospects for what is, in reality, a most average and unproven outfielder who has a history of injuries and compiled whatever numbers he has under absolutely no pressure (Tampa Bay)is not looking to anything but 2007.

Of course, he is cheap and that is the main concern of the Braves. If you didn’t like last year’s finish, wait a year or two. The Braves, by raping their farm system, will return to the 1970s and 1980s. Do any of you really remember those years? Of course, tickets were plentiful and cheap.

Rocco Baldelli? Sounds a little like a can’t miss prospect like Brad Komminsk, Mike Kelly, and a few other can’t missers.

By Joe

December 11, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

I would be more inclined to trade Leroche to the Angels for Figgins and the 1B prospect….keep Salty, who I believe they should immediately move to 1B; Davies, who should be a fixture in the rotation for years to come; and Escobar, who should be your SS for years to come - this kid is pretty dynamic too isn’t he?

Can’t Figgins play the OF?

By clint

December 11, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

Our two top prospects and a young stud pitcher with major league experience for a player (baldeli) with such an extensive injury history?!?! Are you out out of your F-ing mind. Never make that trade!

Baldeli for Davies straight up. NO more!

By KC

December 11, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

Mark Bowman on a potential Baldelli deal: “the Devil Rays are believed to have asked that left-handed starter Chuck James be included in the potential deal. But the Braves are very reluctant to trade the 25-year-old southpaw, who is coming off an 11-win rookie season.”

My guess is that “reluctant” is a bit of an understatement. “Hellllllll no.” or “…and the horse you rode in on.” is probably a more accurate representation of the Braves reaction to any proposal that James be included in that deal.

That certainly should be their reaction to that.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 11, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

nasty stuff on the blog last night after this journalist retired. the sda/stinky/etal doesn’t get it, huh? don’t mess with carolina lady - jimmy smith will match wits with you anytime (you are overmatched there by the way) but do not insult carolina lady. we learned more about sda overnight. learned that he probably called a lot of us “sir” a few years back. now, the monkey lamp … how did this journalist know? when you have been doing journalism for a time you pick up on these things. now, the rocco baldelli matter … all these major league ballplayers and we need only rocco baldelli? when kevin barry starts a few games for the braves next year it will be apparent that this team has problems other than those that can be answered by rocco baldelli. now, robertjitb, showed a little fire last night, huh? scalp’em, too. thanks for the chivlary. chivalry is a cheese, right? and now, the pimentoe cheese sandwich … wrapped in green wax paper and served with an un-named cola in a green cup - this is fine eating. were the braves to serve the pimentoe cheese sandwich it would no doubt become a $12 sandwich - with a bottle of water about $19. and they say giles is too expensive!

and now, the pleasures of hot waffles, maple syrup, sausage, and coffee. this journalist is ready for a nap.

By Rodger

December 11, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

N8,

have to say I lost almost all respect for Paul Rodgers (who I used to love) when on a local radio interview a few years back, he was asked who the best guitarist he ever worked with was, and he replied “Mick Ralph”, then gave a few other names…none was Jimmy Page that he played with for about five years! Don’t know what falling out they may have had, but thats blasphemous!

By Richard Cory

December 11, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

San Diego? You’re meaning is not quite clear. San Diego, is a lovely city, if viewed under the ‘proper’ circumstances. A true conundrum in life is to be marveled at. Even cherished. We have one here, let’s not let it go unappreciated. If the ‘imposter’ blogs out of character, of the intended target, he is readily identifiable.[ie: journalist jimmy having umph well you know, with Lance Bass.] or Grinch saying something about going to church yesterday :-} on the other hand, if the ‘it’ person simply stays within the civil context of the targets normal conversational patterns, he has no fun! As the ‘true’ journalist jimmy would say, “Oh the humanity”. He might fool, ‘some of the people some of the time’, but me thinks he doesn’t fool too many here.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 11, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

There is a maxim in my field of work that goes something like this. There are some people who know something about everything, there are some people who know everything about something, there are some people who think they know everything about everything, but there is no one who knows nothing about nothing. Last night, however, somebody who knows nothing about nothing surfaced, and made his ignorance evident. Now, as far as his statement that no one would ever say the things to his face that have been said on the blog, he is correct First, my kids are grown and I have no reason to go to the zoo, where he apparently lives, and watch the guy shovel elephant dung. Second, he spends so much time showing his a$$ that he would not bother to turn around speak face to face.

By Carolina Lady

December 11, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Robert(JITB), Scalp, JJS - thank you for your kindness. There are obviously some serious mental problems in that individual, so let’s just consider the source and move on. I very much appreciate your comments.

now, baseball… :-)))

By Jimi

December 11, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Food for thought; Trade Hudson to Blue Jays for ALEX RIOS LF plus one on the following young pitchers, Gustano Chacin,Shaun Marcum, or Brandon League. They all are young 2nd or 3rd year players with great ability. What you think Robert and Lew? Be nice.

By Rosalynn

December 11, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Mah Jimma is vindicated! Jimma’s new book has been panned but did you see that the film IWO JIMMA has won best film of the yeah?

By Big Daddy

December 11, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

Robert(Justice Is The Best,

Robert, you write some good stuff. I enjoy reading your posts.

SJA, I’ve been trying to ignore you but your trying to claim special dispensation because you served in Vietnam was simply too much.

My older brother hit Iwo Jima in the first wave with the 28th Regiment, US Marines. He was dug in on the side of Mt. Suribachi and witnessed the raising of the original small flag and then the raising of the larger flag so Joe Rosenthal could get that famous picture. He fought for 34 days and nights without a bath, for an island 2 miles wide and 4 miles long. He was part of the deadliest battle in the history of the US Marine Corps where they lost almost 7,000 men killed and had another 17,000 wounded.

He has been married 60 years, raised a fabulous family, is a deacon in his church and two years ago, at the age of 79, was invited to address the Georgia Senate and did so on the anniversary of that famous battle.

Perhaps I should tell him that he wasted a grand opportunity to make a complete fool of himself, that he could have been an arsehole of the first order and could have blamed it all on having been on Iwo Jimo. What a shame he missed out on all the fun you must be having as a crude, filthy talking piece of human flotsam.

I wonder how many people who know you will even admit it. What a waste you are and you are not even aware of it. You sir are an empty suit.

And don’t bother hurling another of your empty threats. You aren’t worth the sweat off my balls.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

Someone sounds like the store who had 54 “going out of business sale’s”.

By Richard Cory

December 11, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady I sincerely hope that you read my 8:22am post and understand that it was not I, who was rude to you and darrin last pm. In my observation, you have always been a ‘lady’, on the blog, and deserve to be treated as such. Speaking ‘truth’, is not “sticking your nose, where it doesn’t belong”. Isn’t it a lovely irony that the ‘one’ who goes around impersonating every one else on the blog, would chide you for “sticking your nose, where it does’t belong”. Keep ‘calling it like you see it’ and hopefully you will see me in a not so unpleasant light. Regards to you and ‘Mom’.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 11, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Righteous post Big Daddy - well said.

By Solomon Grundy

December 11, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Rozalin need a man. not getting it regular or regularly. sorry she married glow-worm. mabee radeeashun rezon jimmuh had no balls as prezx.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Paul, you wrote: “You were saying that the bucs (via a Pitt website) might try another approach and deal Williams to the Braves for Thorman (and another prospect or to) If that did happen, would they look at moving Soriano to the starting rotation.”

1. Post-Gazette item didn’t say they’d trade Gonzalez for Thorman (Pittsburgh would never do that), it said they might talk to Braves about Thorman … meaning for other players. Pirates have a lot of good arms, though they say won’t trade starters (they’ve got other relievers, too). Also have the second baseman, who’s done little in majors but has ton of natural talent including power, and is hitting well in winter ball. But I don’t know how much interest Braves have in him.

2. No, Braves are NOT moving Soriano to rotation, at least not anytime soon. He’s their primary setup man for this season, that’s why they got him.

By Ron Roberts

December 11, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Baldelli’s enjuries aren’t anything ot be concerned about, frnakly. DOB pointed out earlier the ACL was a fluke, non-playing injury in his December 9, 2006 01:56 AM post.

Fact is, because the loss of Andruw is on the horizon, the Braves need to make this move to off-set it.

Chuck James emergence, in my mind, has made Kyle Davies expendable. Brian McCann’s emergence long ago made Saltalamacchia expendable. So it comes down to Yunel Escobar, who the organization is very high on. But the kid isn’t a franchise piece, and probably never will be. He hit .264 (though he hit a lot of doubles) at AA Mississippi last year, so he’s, what, at least a year, and probably two years away from playing MLB ball.

He certainl wouldn’t off-set the loss of Andruw Jones in the lineup or on the field, and Baldelli does that with minimal loss in other areas.

By Big Daddy

December 11, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

For those who don’t like JS and those who don’t like the trade, who do you plan to play CF in 2008?

And where do you plan to play Salty?

And do you really believe Davies has STAR written across his forhead?

And do you think Escobar is going to beat out all those other prospects the Braves have to play in the infleid in 2008 or 2009? That is the closest to a real possibility I know of.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Totally unconnected but relaing to some posts above, I watched the Marlins all year last year and they have some terrific youngsters on that team. Dan Uggla is a star now and is destined for super star status. Here are his stats. And one year ago he cost the Marlins $50,000 in the Rule 5 draft.

GMS 154 AB 611 R 105 H 172 2B 26 3B 7 HR 27 RBI 90 BB 48 K 123 AVG .282 OBP .339 SLG .480 E 15 Field % .980 Salary $327,000 AGE 27 next March

You gotta give the Marlins Player Personnel Dept. credit for some expertise. They know how to pick talent.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

KC, you wrote: “Brian, unless I misunderstood him… DOB lined out the payroll in a previous blog, and state that the Braves could actually afford to keep Giles. They just won’t have any wiggle room whatsoever if they do so.”

That’s NOT what I wrote. I gave you payroll numbers that showed if the Braves kept arbitration-eligibles Villarreal, LaRoche, Reitsma and Giles, they’d have only about $1 mill to sign the nearly half their roster that’s not eligible for arbitration but will get small raises. That CAN’T be done, and just the $2 mill saved on presumably non-tendering Reitsma still wouldn’t be enough, according to my figures.

That’s not counting a bench guy they might want to sign, or what they might pay another lefty or anyone else they might bring in, if they wanted to.

By Carolina Lady

December 11, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

Richard Cory, I knew that you hadn’t written that ugly post. I very much appreciate your kind comments. I just hope my hat will still fit! :-))

By Ron Roberts

December 11, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

…and not that I care to weigh in on the filth that graces this otherwise pleasant blog, but I thought the web folks at ajc.com were able to block an ISP once in awhile?

By akirell

December 11, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Glad you liked Running Scared. I wouldn’t actually recommend it to anyone because it’s sort of a guilty pleasure action flick.

Anyway, I am glad you enjoyed Lucky Number Slevin. I would recommend that to a lot of people who are looking for something cool to watch for a night.

Anyhow, I’m curious to know what you think of Shamlayan. This is me assuming that you are a film buff.

By Stillborn Unicorn

December 11, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

What about Coco Crisp? Isn’t he under a similar contract for several years? Wouldn’t he cost less than the Rays are asking

By KC

December 11, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

NYM: “Question for the Braves faithful: If the Mets sign Zito, are they favored to win the East again?”

NYM, Good question. I don’t think so. When you break it down, I think that on paper, the Mets need to sign Zito just to remain on par with Atlanta right now (given the fact that Pedro’s out for at least half the season, and there’s no way to know if he’ll be 100% when he does return… shoulder surgeries more often affect a pitcher’s “stuff”, than any other type of injury/surgery.)*

OFFENSE: The Braves and Mets are very comparable offensively (the Braves were slightly better last year).

BULLPENS:

Quick stat… over the last two seasons (05/06), Billy Wagner converted 78 of 86 save opportunities. Bob Wickman over the same period, has converted 78 of 87 save opportunities. While Wickman isn’t heralded as a “dominant” closer, it certainly appears that he is. Most people don’t realize that, in addition to his excellent SV/SV-opp ratio, he has also posted a 2.56 ERA over the last 2 seasons.

With Wickman in the pen to start this season this year, and the addition of one of the games best setup men. The Braves are as solid in the 8th and 9th innings as any team in baseball. Two returning rookies, Macay McBride and TylerYates, really started to come into their own by the end of last season. McBride posted an ERA under 2.00 from July 16th on… and Yates a 2.70 ERA as the Braves’ setup man in September. There’s also Chad Paronto, who finished the season with a respectable 3.19 ERA. Villareal did a good job as the long-reliever last year, and Blaine Boyer, one of the Braves best relievers in 05 (injured all of 06) should be healthy as well. By securing Wickman, and adding Soriano to a group of good young arms… the Braves bullpen looks to be in very good shape, but JS may yet add one more proven arm (preferably another lefty). Bottom line, I think Atlanta has pulled its bullpen even with an already excellent Mets pen.

So if the offenses and bullpens are nearly even… it all comes down to the rotation.

ROTATION (If NYM add Zito):

Glavine, O.Hernandez, Maine, Trachsel?, Perez (Pedro??)

Vs.

Smotlz, Hudson, Hampton, James, Davies

Advantage: Braves. The Mets desperately need Zito or another quality starter (or two).

By KC

December 11, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

DOB: Sorry to misquote you. What will Soriano make? Did they save any cash on the Ramirez/Soriano swap?

If so, could they deal Villareal, and couple that with the money saved on Reitsma… and use that to keep Giles?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 11, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Coco Crisp? No thanks - besides being named after a cereal, the guy was underwhelming for the BoSox, I believe, last year. Besides not being very productive, he was hurt for some of the year with some minor ailment/injury. I know he has talent, but he seems more brittle than Baldelli.

DOB - am I correct on the above?

On second thought, the food naming possiblities for Coco are enticing. Coco’s Cuckoos’? Cuckoo for Coco Crisps? Crisp(y) Cremes?

By Ron Roberts

December 11, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Let’s also not forget the Phils and Marlins in our divisional equations.

On the surface, the Marlins didn’t come close to the Braves or Mets “on paper,” and yet we were only a game ahead of Florida and behind a Phillies team that supposedly got “weaker” when they traded off their all-star outfielder in mid-season.

But KC’s Braves/Mets comparison is worth noting.

By Matthew

December 11, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

KC:

I believe DOB said that the HoRam for Soriano deal saved us about $1.2 mil. I don’t have the specifics in front of me, but you might go back through the earlier blogs to be sure.

By NCBravesFan

December 11, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

KC - I agree that the Mets have some work to do on the front end of their pitching staff. My guess is Zito will end up with the Mets by default, since the Yankees are going in a different direction with their staff. I also seriously doubt that Zito will head to Texas - it’s hot as hell down there, and I bet BZ would crave the spotlight afforded him by the Big Apple. With the Phils looking like a good team, the East looks to be a three-team race next year in my humble opinion. Who wins will depend largely on health and getting some breaks along the way.

By Robert

December 11, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Everything I have seen tells me that after the Braves non-tenre Giles, other teams can sign Giles for less than 6 million. Any chance the Braves can be one of the teams? Or is that not allowed by league rules? Or do the Braves need to save that entire 6 million to meet payroll restrictions? I understand the business of the game, but watching Giles is just so much fun.

By akirell

December 11, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Check this out:

MLBTradeRumors has posted news that a multi-player deal between PIT and ATL exists with LaRoche and Gonzalez being involved.

Link

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Scalp, the Crispy Cremes belong to Andruw.

Off to the gym.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 11, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

I have a feeling there’s about to be questions concerning the Pirates very soon on this Blog.

By John Adcox

December 11, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Speaking of rumors… apparently, Texas is considering non-tendering Brad Wilkerson is they reach a deal with Lofton. Assuming his shoulder (or whatever it was) has healed, is he someone the Braves might look at, perhaps as an affordable alternative to swapping the minor league system for Baldelli?

By akirell

December 11, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Rotoworld says about the potential multi-player deal between PIT and ATL:

“The paper believes the two sides have discussed a trade that would send LaRoche and Kyle Davies to the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez, Jose Castillo, Nate McLouth and Humberto Cota. However, if the Braves decided Gonzalez wasn’t worth LaRoche alone, it’s hard to see how this would appeal to them. Castillo may or may not be a huge downgrade at second base from Marcus Giles, depending on how his defense bounces back. McLouth would be another nice fourth outfielder on a team that already has two of them in Ryan Langerhans and Matt Diaz. Cota is about to be non-tendered and shouldn’t have any trade value at all. The Braves can likely do better elsewhere for Davies. If the Braves really like Castillo, then maybe acquiring him straight up for Scott Thorman would be an option.”

I agree. It’d be a really foolish move to make that deal for those four guys. Thorman for Castillo might make a little more sense.

By Drew

December 11, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, have you heard anything about the deal akirell is talking about. It came out of a Pittsburgh paper. Something along the lines of Gonzalez, Castillo, Humberto Cota, and Nate McLouth for LaRoche and Davies. This deal doesn’t seem to make any sense for the Braves. I would think if we were going to make this trade, we would want part of the deal to be at least a pitching propect as opposed to a catching prospect in Cota and an outfield prospect in McLouth. Doesn’t make much sense to me. Here is the link: http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17576515&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6

By Chad

December 11, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

DOB, you wrote: Very true. At least as long as the payroll is the middle to bottom half of ‘ball. And it’ll be in the bottom half this year, for sure. Maybe close to bottom third…

I see the Braves payroll for last year was just over $90 million, good for 9th in MLB. Is that not accurate? (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2006)

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Chad, no it’s not. Among other things, they used the full value of Hampton’s salary ($13.5 mill in 2006). Somewhere near half of that total was paid by insurance (Braves won’t say how much), and besides, Braves count about $9 mill for Hampton during each of the six seasons they have him, rather than counting all of his salary when they’re obligated to pay his entire salary from 2006-08 and almost none of it when Colorado and Florida paid most of it from 2003-05.

You’ll drive yourself insane trying to figure out which payroll is “correct” because there is really no answer. Some use 40-man roster, some use full benefits packages, some count prorated signing bonuses, some count player’s entire salary regardless of whether another team’s paying part of it, etc.

For Braves’ accounting purposes, their payroll is right around $80 mill and has been for three years, down from about $100 mill at its peak before the cuts mandated by either ownership or by Braves prez Terry McGuirk.

By TheWyzyrd

December 11, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Hey Flange, I agree the Pistols was total media event. All the fans bunched up in the front and all the media standing in the back with there arms folded. I thought the best part was when Darryl Rhodes came out with the two-foot safety pin through his nose. What a hoot! One of the more disjointed shows I’ve ever seen. But it was their first U.S. gig and who kknows what they were on at the time. As for the Cockroaches, yes, I saw them at the Fox. Still got my ticket to that, too. I wrote a story for the paper about standing in line waiting to buy tickets. I got a heads up and was about 100th in line. Some dude drove up and offered his car to another dude to trade places in line. The guy in line wouldn’t go for it. They were incredible in the Fox. Did you see Skynyrd at the Fox? Saw Marley there, too. My buddy and I got backtage and gave Marley at joint we rolled using a tampon rapper. The thing was huge. We filed full of that great weed from Afganistan. Anyway, he lit it up. Took a hit and coughed. We were so proud of ourselves. We made Marley cough!!!!! Got a picture of it, too. Atlanta was THE place to be back then. The bands were nuts about Southern women! I’m sure we crossed paths many, many times. Take care, TheWyz

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the trade rumor has much validity to it, if any. Can’t see them trading LaRoche AND Davies and not getting a starting pithcer OR impact position player in the deal. Just can’t see it.

Also not going to make phone calls to sources for EVERY rumor out there, because they’ll quickly stop taking my calls. I mean, come on. It’s two new ones every day.

Shymalan, or however the director spells his name? Someone asked. Hey, I love movies, and all I know is The Village was awful and that recent thing he put out, Lady In Water, looked dreadful in trailors and got terrible reviews. Been how many years since he made a good movie?

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Question for the Braves faithful: If the Mets sign Zito, are they favored to win the East again?

Who cares? “Favored”? You want that crown? Take it. Have a ball with it. Polish it up and make it all shiny and pretty. It’ll be that much more fun to beat the Mets.

As a Braves Fan I’d say this, Zito has the potential to improve the Mets. But so did Hudson for the Braves and Mulder for the Cards. Besides, the Mets have a pretty old team. Sure, they have Wright and Reyes. Beltran is pretty young (he’ll be 30 at the start of next year), but the rest of the team is pretty old. For instance, first base is manned by two guys with a combined age of 81. The rest of the fielders, not Reyes, Beltran or Wright, are 35 and older. And so far, the top of the rotation is 40+.
Also, the Mets, or for that matter any NL East team, is going to have a tougher time next season. The Phillies appear to be improving, but we’ll see. The Marlins were alright last year considering, but that team risks a team wide sophomore slump this season. At any rate, there should be 3 solid teams, 1 potentially solid team and 1 terrible team next season in the NL East. That cuts into the wins for everyone.

KC: I’d be opposed to dealing Villarreal. If we are going to deplete our pitching for Baldy, we’re going to need Oscar. Even if we don’t I’d rather keep him. Last years musical chair pitching staff was a nightmare. I never want to go through that again.

By KC

December 11, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

DOB: You’re right about most things, but dead wrong about The Village. It was an excellent movie with a great twist. Another movie M.Night doesn’t get enough credit for was Unbreakable. I thought it was a great movie, but got lukewarm reviews.

By Charles

December 11, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Knowing Tuesday, December 12 is that last day to tender contracts, does anyone know what the time is for non-tendering players? Is it midnight or 4:00pm, or like the July 31 deadline?

By DCarp23

December 11, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

I’m surprised at the negative reaction The Village received. I personally thought it was great. It appeared to me to well made, an interesting story and some music and shots that I thoroughly enjoyed. I’m not sure what everyone’s beef was with that movie, but it certainly seems to be en vogue to rip on M. Night’s stuff.

I didn’t really like the Lady in the Water, but there are certainly worse movies that came out. For my book, The Sixth Sense blew me away like none other did, Unbreakable is a cool story that I could watch over and over again, and Signs scared me more than any movie I’ve ever seen, and did it in a different way than any other.

I think his biggest problem was making The Sixth Sense first and the constant comparisons that will always come with it. But I will definitely go see a movie simply because he directs it, because if nothing else, it’s going to be something original.

By flange1

December 11, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Hi Wyz,

Yes I saw Skynard 2 of the 3 night they were there recording the live album. They were so powerful at that time it is hard to belive seeing what is being offered now. That line for the Stones was alot of fun. I can’t believe we all didn’t get busted.

DOB

Did you see the link in the Chicago paper saying the Rays had said no to Atlanta 3 prospects for Baldy (with 2 being Salty and Esocbar?) I hope we all are not getting too excited about a trade that has already been shot down!

Also, I am looking for a list of players that are arbitration eligible? I am hoping JS can find another non-tender player to trade for Giles…

By Rick Roberts

December 11, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Agreed: Trade with O’s best not to make. Agreed: Giles too expensive for investment. Agreed: Baldelli not worth what Braves rumored to offer. So: Why not make our TBay offer for Crawford? Slightly higher contract, but still a value and we get speed plus no history of injuries. So: Why not pursue the Angels deal with LaRoche? Get Figgins in the deal.

Now, look at the speed at the top of the order! Figgins, Crawford, etc.

This makes sense!

By rainman

December 11, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Dave, i was wondering about some guys in the minors so i hope you can help. Dan Smith is a huge lefthander who did well as a reliever but did great as a starter, was interested in what you knew about him, Zach schreiber,and Matt Wright who did well at AA but struggled at richmond. Thanks man this blog makes the offseason bareable.

By Hokie

December 11, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else like the line-up/roster as is?!?

I do not see the need for any more trades, maybe for a lefty in the BP.

By KC

December 11, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

BTW: For those of you in Atlanta, my wife and I recently discovered an amazing place to eat… it’s a restaurant called the 57th Fighter Group.

It’s adjacent to the Dekalb Peachtree Airport in Chamblee. The building its housed in is a national historic landmark, as it was part of the first Naval Air base in GA during WW2. They have a couple of WW2 fighters parked out front, and inside the walls are covered with WW2 recruitment posters, and pictures of soldiers taken back then, and newspaper clippings from that era. Great food, incredible environment. Highly recommended!

By KC

December 11, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

How bout’ a 3-way trade?

Braves get: Baldelli and M.Gonzalez.

Pirates get: LaRoche and Matt Diaz.

D-Rays get: Escobar, Davies, and a prospect from Pittsburg.

It’ll never happen, but it sounds like a deal that would benefit everyone, right?

By ncscoots

December 11, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Definitely a non-Braves topic, but I need to vent about The Bosox and Matsuzaka. I really, really, REALLY hope Boston will play a little hardball with Boras and this guy. Boras is asking $15MM for a guy who has never pitched in the majors, and has acted “disinterested”, according to one source, at the Bosox offering a mere $7-8MM a year. This after Boston ponied up over $50MM, JUST TO TALK TO THE GUY!

If I were Epstein (and probably a good thing I’m not), I’d say, “You want to play in the ML? Fine, we WANT you to play with us, a lot, even. But we’re not going to pay #1 starter money for 6 years to a guy who’s never even faced Neifi Perez, let alone Derek Jeter. And we ESPECIALLY are not going to pay #1 money for three years, on top of $50MM speak-up money, and then let you walk off into free-agent land. So…here’s a nice piece of change, about #3 starter money, on top of the big wad we threw to Seibu. If that’s not to your liking, fine, wait another year to see if your market value increases. We’ll take our Seibu money back and take our chances with the three other pitchers we can use it to sign. Up to you.”

I can’t really put a finger on it, but the sheer audacity of Boras and Matsuzaka in this scenario just put me right into orbit. I mean, I was STEAMED!

By KC

December 11, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Okay, I really like Adam LaRoche, so I don’t mean this as a slam in any way… But he looks just like Bert from Sesame Street. Am I wrong?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 11, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Scoots - I share you ire/disgust with Boras, as indicated in my 9:14 post this morning. I’m sick of him, and wish some owner had the starch to stand up to him - but, one of them won’t - they’ll worry that someone else will get them - and as long as Stein-Stupid is around (and a few others, based upon the kind of money being thrown around this year), somebody will pay his price. And the greedy one knows it.

By TennesseePaul

December 11, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

To get in on this M. Knight Shyamalan bit. I liked the Village. Or I should say, I enjoyed it. Certainly not my favorite of his. That would Unbreakable. That movie is spectacular. I’d like to see a series made out of it or something. 6th sense was mind blowing the first time I saw it. But it’s hard to watch over and over once you know the ending. The ending is what makes it so good. Signs was a cool movie as well. Never saw Lady In the Water. I couldn’t find one positive review for that movie. The Village I can’t really watch repeated times. I’ve only seen it once all the way through. Then several portions in random order as I flipped the channels and nothing else was on. Unbreakable though still gets me. Just a good story all around.

ncscoots: I hear ya! I think the BoSox are in a good position though. Boras can’t take his client else where. The Lions get no money if the deal doesn’t go down. DM can’t pitch in the pros this season if the deal doesn’t go through. There is no reason for the BoSox to cave to any demand of Boras. The worst thing that could happen to the Sox is, they don’t sign him, and then have money to throw at the Rocket. Borass has no room to wiggle. The posting system isn’t fair to the player, but it’s even tougher on the agent. BoSox could offer league minimum if they wanted, there’s nothing the player or agent could do. They’d either accept or reject it knowing full well it means staying in Japan another season. And after all this posting business, I’d imagine going back to your team would be a little uncomfortable.
Screw Boras! Maybe he is good at what he does. I’ll agree if you define “what he does” as destroying families, ruining the lives of legions of fans, staining the reputation and names of his clients and raping the teams he deals with.

By Chrizzo

December 11, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, once again, thanks so much for being so devoted to this blog. The following is an article from a newspaper up north, is there any truth that the LaRoche/Gonzo trade might still be on again, or at least do you see the two teams starting talks up again? This is the clip of the Braves mention from the article:

“Meanwhile, indications are that the Pirates’ attempts to trade for Atlanta Braves first baseman Adam LaRoche may not yet be over, though a deal fell apart last Wednesday. There were tensions between the two teams with the accusation by the Braves that Pirates General Manager Dave Littlefield drug his feet on completing a deal. However sources close to the negotiations expect both sides to try to resurrect talks once cooler heads prevail and believe the potential is still there for a multi-player deal, including a possibility in which the Pirates would send left-handed closer Mike Gonzalez, catcher Humberto Cota, second baseman Jose Castillo and outfielder Nate McLouth to the Braves for right-hander Kyle Davies and LaRoche.”

Link:

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17576515&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, agreed on Unbreakable. Great movie. And Sixth Sense was incredible. Which is why his last couple of flicks have been so disappointing, to me.

KC, you really thought The Village was “excellent”?

And thanks for that restaurant rec. You know what, I drove by that riding my motorcyle one day and wondered about that restaurant. Looked really cool, but I’d never heard of it. Nice to know someone’s eaten then and recommends it….

NEW BLOG is posted.

By David O'Brien

December 11, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Chrizzo, I already addressed this rumor, not more than an hour or so ago

By Braves Fan in Denver

December 11, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

This was just posted on rotoworld.com

“Rafael Soriano’s velocity is reportedly down in the Dominican Winter League as he works his way back from a concussion sustained in late August.

Soriano reportedly topped out at 91 mph in a recent outing and has given up seven runs — five earned — while striking out just one batter in six innings. It soulds like there’s real reason for concern, but the Braves did give Soriano a physical before acquiring him last week and likely did some homework besides. The slow start after the wicked shot he took off Vladimir Guerrero’s bat shouldn’t come as a surprise.”

By The Grinch

December 11, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

KC, while he does look like Bert, I think he looks even more like “Beaker” from the Muppets. Similar either way. As for M. Night’s movies, I was so smashed when I saw the Village the only thing I remember was thinking “Man, Ron Howard’s daughter is smokin’ hot.” Unbreakeable was definitely a cool movie; it was almost like watching a comic book on screen.

Scoots, I agree; this whole thing is totally out of hand.

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

I would trade Escobar an Davies. There is no way I would trade Salty. I would see if somebody like Ryan Langerhans would convince the D-Rays to do it. Think about it, if we trade our left-fielder and get one in return then there is no need for Langerhans especially with Kelly Johnson coming back.

By Jack

December 11, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

OK, Giles has not lived up to his earlier years production lately, but he IS NOT a throw-away. I agree with the ones who say we might be giving up the future to get one player. Why this self-imposed $80 million budget? Are the Braves doing that badly at the bank? I have heard Glavine and Maddux and Furcal all say they would prefer to stay in Atlanta, but in the end, money talked. This time next year, we will see the same thing with A. Jones. THAT will open up the budget big time. Continue to build with our young pitchers, Marcus, Adam and the other young guys for next year, then load up next winter after A. Jones cashes in with someone else.

By unclepeepot

December 11, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Unclepeepot has spoken,do the damn deal with the D-Rays.

By uncle pee pot

December 11, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

uncle pee pot has spoken,do the deal with the D-Rays

By dee will

December 11, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

I’ve read in a not to smart rumor from John Perrotto of the Beaver County Allegheny Times reports. The trade talks with the braves and pirates are not over yet. They offered Mike Gonzalez, Humberto Cota, Jose Castillo, Nate McLouth. For Kyle Davies, and Adam LaRoche. That to me is a stupid deal.The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette said since the laroche for gonzo deal feel through they are very interested Scott Thorman.

By 2 Homo boys

December 11, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

i just wanted to say that my husband and me both agree with my uncle who is uncle pee pot that the Braves should do the deal with the D-Rays.we also want to say hi to our friend the Southern jackass and to jimmy smith.you guys need to come join us at a big gay party we are having,we got some nice guys lined up for you.come join the fun. We just want to say that all of our gay friends in Atlanta loves the Braves.about 20 of us attneded last yer and we plan to do the same this next season.we had a good time,then my boyfriend and I got married shortly after that and took a nice honeymoon to mexico. I’m Jim and my husband is Tim.we are looking forward to the 2007 baseball season.

By Ken

December 11, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this

Why didn’t the Braves win the NL East last season? Hmm?… Oh yeah it was the lack of pitching, not the lead-off spot, not left-field… Pitching! If they had a decent bullpen last season, Smoltz would have won the Cy Young. JS seems to be trying to fix what was broken, Can Baldelli pitch in the seventh & eigth inning?

By dee will

December 11, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

If I was JS this is how the 2007 world series champs would look like. first I am going to tell you my trades. I would send Davies, Escobar, for Rocco Baldelli. Then I would trade Anthony Lerew, Thorman, and paronto for Mike Gonzalez and a pitching prospect(optional). The last deal I would try to get a starting pitcher. So I would trade Giles, and Langerhans for the dodgers hard throwing lefty Hong-Chih Kuo. so in a overview im bringing in kuo, Baldelli, and Gonzalez.

           Starters

1 John Smoltz 2 Chuck James 3 Tim Hudson 4 Mike Hampton 5 Hong-Chih Kuo

           Bullpen

mr Oscar Villareal mr Tyler Yates mr McCay Mcbride mr Blaine Boyer su Rafael Soriano su Mike Gonzalez cl Bob Wickman

This looks like a young and great bullpen for now and in the future. Also you have will startup,lance cormier, joey devine, phil stockman,and tanyon sturtze waiting for their turn to come.

            Linuep

LF Rocco Baldelli SS Edgar Renteria 3B Chipper Jones CF Andruw Jones C Brian McCann RF Jeff Francoeur 1B Adam Laroche 2B Kelly Johnson vs. right handed starting pitchers and Martin Pardo for Left

             Bench

C Bryan Pena OF Matt Diaz INF Willy Aybar INF Martin Prado/ Johnson OF Willie Harris

This looks like a great team to me how about you? Email me for your opinion. Way better than those METS

By dee will

December 11, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

If I was JS this is how the 2007 world series champs would look like. first I am going to tell you my trades. I would send Davies, Escobar, for Rocco Baldelli. Then I would trade Anthony Lerew, Thorman, and paronto for Mike Gonzalez and a pitching prospect(optional). The last deal I would try to get a starting pitcher. So I would trade Giles, and Langerhans for the dodgers hard throwing lefty Hong-Chih Kuo. so in a overview im bringing in kuo, Baldelli, and Gonzalez.

           Starters

1 John Smoltz

2 Chuck James

3 Tim Hudson

4 Mike Hampton

5 Hong-Chih Kuo

           Bullpen

mr Oscar Villareal

mr Tyler Yates

mr McCay Mcbride

mr Blaine Boyer

su Rafael Soriano

su Mike Gonzalez

cl Bob Wickman

This looks like a young and great bullpen for now and in the future. Also you have will startup,lance cormier, joey devine, phil stockman,and tanyon sturtze waiting for their turn to come.

            Linuep

LF Rocco Baldelli

SS Edgar Renteria

3B Chipper Jones

CF Andruw Jones

C Brian McCann

RF Jeff Francoeur

1B Adam Laroche

2B Kelly Johnson vs. right handed starting pitchers and Martin Pardo for Left

             Bench

C Bryan Pena

OF Matt Diaz

INF Willy Aybar

INF Martin Prado/ Johnson

OF Willie Harris

This looks like a great team to me how about you? Email me for your opinion. Way better than those METS

By Nelson Hawkins

December 11, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, regarding my suggestion of adding Longoria to the trade mix—there is no such thing as an untouchable prospect because prospects are just that, P-R-O-S-P-E-C-T-S! The reason teams with money are willing to overspend on the likes of Jason Marquis, Gil Meche, et al., is because they have at least shown they can take the heat of the major-league spotlight, and the grind of a full season. Consider the likes of (to use examples from the Tampa Bay organization) former prospects Toe Nash and Josh Hamilton—you think the D-Rays wouldn’t have loved to have gotten something of value for both (or either) of them? The press seems to indicate the Braves aren’t offering James up, but asking for Longoria at least poses the question to the D-Rays, “How serious are you about needing Chuck James to get this deal done?”—since the Schuerholz foot is already in the door, call it the “foot—in-the-foyer technique”. Anyway, since the D-Rays and Braves don’t really have $$ to spend in the current market, prospects are their currency (that’s what they’re there for). Besides, if the D-Rays were so committed to keeping Longoria (who, despite playing a lot of SS, projects as a 3B, like a young Larry Wayne Jones, Jr.), why’d they submit the winning bid for Akinori Iwamura? And just to beat a dead horse, do you think the Angels are happy that they’ve given $50 million to Gary Matthews, Jr., (all over one catch he made for their division rival, Texas), instead of trading their “untouchable” prospects for Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones?

By Ken

December 12, 2006 12:02 AM | Link to this

What about Pete Orr? I think he is a Cox favorite & I don’t think he’s goi ng anywhere. If JS can get all the teams to roll over for these trades, Great! The Braves should be set and since all those Mets are unlikely to have career years again, the east should once again belong to the Braves.

By Eric

December 12, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

Before the offseason half of you guys had never heard of Baldelli. You dont give up Davies who is a potential 20 game winner/Cy Young winner sometime in his career for a leadoff hitter that cant stay healthy,cant bat.300, and cant steal many bases. The braves were built on great pitching not leadoff hitters. Bobby Cox even said it if you have great pitching who cares who’s batting leadoff. If Baldelli is such a great deal why are the D-rays trying to get rid of him?

By Ken

December 12, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Everybody does need to remember that the Braves were #2 in the NL in Runs Scored last season, it was the 29 blown saves that killed them. I’m with Eric, it’s Pitching! JS seems to be trying to fix that problem with Wickman and Smoltz re-signed, Hampton coming back, and the Soriano deal. Maybe one more piece and we should be good!

By 2Homoboys

December 12, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Southern jackass,we have a nice boyfriend for you,you will like him,he will straighten you out and show you the gay way is the best.you need a nice man to make love to you.try him you will like him,bring jounalist Jimmy with you,we have a boyfriend for him too.SJA there is a nice hard peni$ just waiting for you.got SJA written all over it.

By matt b

December 12, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

I think it would be a great deal for the Braves. Yea i know we are giving up 2 great up and commers but Baldeli would be great in ATL!!!!