Braves

By Josh

December 7, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

David, on the Braves official site it says this: “Late Wednesday evening, another Braves source indicated that the club could be ready to make a big trade on Thursday. There still hasn’t been much of a market for second baseman Marcus Giles, and it’s almost certain the club won’t be trading Hudson.” in the article about this trade.

Do you have any news/updates on this?

By Greg

December 7, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

So who’s interested in Giles? San Diego? Oakland? SD has some nice starters, maybe we could pull a three way, sending Giles to SD for a pitcher to go somewhere to land us a leadoff guy.

Although has anyone floated Gregor Blanco as a LF/leadoff guy? He posts .400 OBP and steals bases. He’s Juan Pierre but better and cheaper.

By Wayne

December 7, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

Dave: Great points. What was all that talk last night about the Braves were going to make a “big” trade today. Is there any real truth to those rumblings. Personally, because it is hard to get a flame throwing lefty reliever, I would still take the Gonzo deal, but wouldn’t trade LaRoche for just Figgins and Kotchman. I would need to get something significant for him.

I know the AJ dump is a long shot, but I still wish we could get something for him now, versus nothing in his walk year. I know he could put up big numbers, but it is possible to replace “some” of that production with whatever we get for him. Luis Gonzalez probably blew any chance we had of getting the Dodgers to take Andruw for Penny and Kemp, huh.

By John Adcox

December 7, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

ESPN is reporting Ward to the Cubs… did I hear that right?

By John Adcox

December 7, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

if we lose Ward, does that have any implications for LaRoche? Maybe the Braves want a right handed bat to pair with Thorman? Ouch.

By Josh

December 7, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Yea, its true. God dang it, how hard could it really be to resign him we NEEDED Ward and lost him.

Great job JS :|

Do one horrible thing, then one great thing, now one horrible thing.

OMG

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

Folks, several of you want me to give you insight into others reporting of a “big trade.” Well, I have no insight for one reason: There is no big trade. If I knew of a pending big trade, I would’ve said so last night. But there wasn’t, and there isn’t.

If the sites that said there’d be a “big trade” today knew anything more than that, they’d have provided some hint of what it would entail.

Sorry, but I’m not into the fanning-the-flames crap that goes on here, the throw-it-all-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks mentality.

Braves made a big trade last night. I don’t know of any “big trade” brewing today. That could change and change quickly, but right now, nothing. What are those places you read about the pending “big trade” reporting this morning?

that’s what I thought.

By bryan

December 7, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

John…

Where is that Ward to Cubs link… where did you read that?

By Lew

December 7, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Wayne-Just ask yourself this one question-“Will we have a greater chance to win the East this year with Andruw or with pieces we get in return IF we could trade him”? The answer of course, is WITH him. End of story. He stays. Greg-In the latest issue of Chop Talk Magazine, which has a complete overview of the Braves’ farm system, Blanco is not even listed as one of the top 30 prospects in the Braves’ organization. In fact, his name is not even mentioned. What does this tell you?

By Josh

December 7, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

So, there is NO Big Trade? We couldn’t even trade that scum Giles? Couldn’t even trade LaRoche? All we do is get Soriano and let Ward walk?

Wow, what a wasted Winter Meeting, and offseason so far.

Same old same old, thanks Official Site for getting our hopes up.

Sorry but this is pathetic and sickening.

By Wayne

December 7, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

DOB, the “big trade” talk came from Mark Bowman on the Braves website.

“Late Wednesday evening, another Braves source indicated that the club could be ready to make a big trade on Thursday.”

By John Adcox

December 7, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Sorry. The link to the ward signing is here.

As for what it means for LaRoche, I was merely speculating wildly. It had nothing to do with fanning flames or anything like that. Just playin’ hot stove and all that.

John

By Lew

December 7, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Come on people-Ward is a good pich hitter-Maybe one of the best, but he is a pinch hitter. It’s not as if we lost a major piece of the machine. We only had him for one month and despite his good productivity, he wasn’t that huge a contributer to the second best offense in the NL. Don’t go into major throes of depression because we lost a player who would bat three times a week. Suicide is hardly necessary and our chances of dethroning the Mets did not just take a major hit. Get over it already. We got a stud set up man and future closer. Now THAT really makes a difference. I wish Ward well with the Windy City wayfarers (their team this year does feature some frequent flier miles).

By Lew

December 7, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

Josh-Apparently you don’t have a clue.

By Stillborn Unicorn

December 7, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Josh - You disgust me. Everyone else - I think Soriano is a good move, provided he doesn’t have Herb Score syndrome from that beanie he took off his brow last year. (and for those of you wondering exactly what a stillborn unicorn is: it’s a lot of work for nothing).

By Steve

December 7, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

DOB, the Seattle Mariner is reporting that Soriano is extremely injury prone and he’s an early season ending injury waiting to happen. Their saying its a matter of time before he blows out his arm too. However, the guy who wrote it seems overwhelmingly bitter about this trade too. So do you think this guy is just letting his emotions show and hoping Soriano gets hurt badly or does this guy have a good % chance of being shut down before we know it??

By John Adcox

December 7, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Josh, how about getting a post season appearance for Andruw? I’d settle.

Frankly, I love the Soriano trade and am disappointed about Ward. But I’d almost rather stand pat with what we have RIGHT NOW than pull the trigger on any of the other trades that have been rumored, especially since any outfielders from Tampa Bay are going to be too pricey.

Our offense was fine, and the pitching has improved dramatically. Yes, I know there are some major unanswered questions. But the only way to answer them is to play some games.

We have a little room, and some pieces, to make some moves at midseason. Why all the handwringing? What am I missing, pal?

Jeez, we should all have a blog meet up and hash this out in person over cold ones.

By Patrick

December 7, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

There was an article on atlantabraves.com that made mention of a new twist with Andruw. I think all the people that want him traded were hoping for something to come of it

By Charles

December 7, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Only a rumor and someone please tell me if they have heard this recently:

A possible trade with Tampa Bay sending Chuck James to TB for Rocco Baldelli (with other players involved)

DOB, have you heard that?

By ChrisinPA

December 7, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

I think the Braves made a great trade….I just want it to be finalized. For the Braves to pick up Soriano for Ramirez…the bullpen looks pretty solid…especially if they can get Boyer back.

Another good job John.

By Chad

December 7, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Lew

That’s a pretty short-sighted opinion. Front offices don’t make personnel decisions for one year only; sure we’re better next year with Andruw but what about 2008 when we have no Andruw and only a couple draft picks to compensate for losing him?

I’d rather have a 25 homer guy for 2 years than Andruw hitting 40 one year and some chump hitting 5 the year after that…

By DCBrave

December 7, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Yahoo Sports is reporting that the Cubs are very close on a deal with Daryle Ward. I hope not. If we trade LaRoche (I hope not), he’ll be very important as a back-up and even possible starter.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

Figgins is approaching Crawford status as far as amount of time being talked about on this blog…..

CL I apologize for the foul language, yesterday. But hey, at least I tried to warn you before you read it. Do I get demerits removed for the effort? ;)

By Lew

December 7, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Charles-It was discussed last night. It is doubtful that the Braves would trade James, a pitcher of the future,for anyone, much less for an outfielder (Baldelli) who just missed a year and a half straight with myriad injuries.

By John Adcox

December 7, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Charles, the latest rumor on the Rocco front is that the price is just too high. If it happens, it likely won’t be soon—Tampa Bay’s GM has already left the Winter Meetings.

John

By Chad

December 7, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Lew

That’s a pretty short-sighted opinion. Front offices don’t make personnel decisions for one year only; sure we’re better next year with Andruw but what about 2008 when we have no Andruw and only a couple draft picks to compensate for losing him?

I’d rather have a 25 homer guy for 2 years than Andruw hitting 40 one year and some chump hitting 5 the year after that…

By BravesFaninRockies

December 7, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Losing Ward (if it happens) would be a bit sad, but it may make as much sense as anything the Cubs do this off-season. Ward gives them insurance if DLee gets hurt, plus he’s an excellent bat off the bench. So long as the Braves keep LaRoche — let’s hope so —then Thorman (or Kelly Johnson!) becomes your lefty off the bench.

I can see the Braves picking up a right handed hitting util/backup guy. Unless they’re looking for Aybar to be a super-sub or think Prado could do the job as a righty pinch hitter.

By Charles

December 7, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Ward has been signed to a one-year deal by the cubs.

By Chad

December 7, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Lew

That’s a pretty short-sighted opinion. Front offices don’t make personnel decisions for one year only; sure we’re better next year with Andruw but what about 2008 when we have no Andruw and only a couple draft picks to compensate for losing him?

I’d rather have a 25 homer guy for 2 years than Andruw hitting 40 one year and some chump hitting 5 the year after that…

By DevilsAdvocate

December 7, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

I know he has tons of wins, but not enough World Series wins. We’ve been very patient and it time for a huge change so please get rid of Bobby Cox. I know you guys will hate me for this, but it’s the truth. I loved Dan Reeves-Falcons also, but it was his time too. Merry Christmas.

By Charles

December 7, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

John and Lew

Thank you for the comments. I am not good with blogs and am sometimes a little late on information. I appreciate your responses.

Charles

By Palamas

December 7, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

“Pathetic”? “Sickening”? You’ve got to be kidding. Just getting Soriano for HoRam was big. If the Braves had had Wickman and Soriano in their pen from opening day last year, the odds are excellent that they would have won the division. Ward was a nice piece, but he was useful almost exclusively as a pinch hitter, and I think getting the elite set-up man/future closer the Braves desperately needed outweighs letting a bench guy go.

By dumbbraves

December 7, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

I wish the all Atlanta Teams would get new coaches. The Braves suck and won’t go far with Bobby Cox. He has got to go!!!!!

By Lew

December 7, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Chad-It’s not only MY shortsighted opinion, but that of BC and JS, also. Now I’ll go through this yet again. IF Andruw does leave via Free Agency next year (and both BC and JS say they will attempt to resign him and Andruw himself says he wants to remain a Brave) we will have had him and his production for 11 years-which is exactly what we paid him for. Should he leave, we will get 2 pretty highly placed draft picks. We will also have his salary to use to replace him. Just exactly WHAT deals have you heard of that will give us a 25 HR person who we would have under contract for two or more years? I sure haven’t heard of any. Now the only deal we HAVE heard was the offer, at the trade deadline, from the Red Sox for Coco Crisp and a rookie pitcher with no track record and an ERA of over 6. I don’t see a 25 HR guy in that deal, do you? Crisp is a flippin’ joke, Dude. Nothing else was offered at a time when contending teams traditionally overspend for that one piece to get them to the promised land. Think of it-a scrub outfielder and a rookie pitcher who has had his butt kicked to this point. Also, that was before Andruw became 10-5, and when the Braves could have traded him with no fuss. Do you have any idea whatsoever of the difficulties involved with trading him now? Add to this that his agent and Andruw himself have repeatedly said he would play in Atlanta in 07. I fail to understand what part of this that people don’t understand. Andruw is not going to be traded. Now if he does leave for free agency then I promise you we will replace him. We will never play without a center fielder and we will, I guarantee you, pay whoever it is that does replace him. WE’ve gotten what we paid for and that’s all you can ask.

By RK

December 7, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

If Ward is starting for you, you’ve got bigger problems…

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’m not standing on the ledge or staring down the barrel of a 12 gauge about it, but we’ll see how important it would have been to sign Ward when Pete Orr is pinch-hitting in the bottom of the eight against the Mets in a tie game with runners on base next September….I just think that should have been a wise, cheap decision.

By DonCoburleone

December 7, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

If JS trades Chuck James for Rocco Baldelli I’m going to become a CUBS fan…

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Here we go with Badelli again…however, the winter meeting are all but over…so I guess there is’nt much more to talk about for awhile.

I fear Giles is going to go the way of K. Millwood. Although, that did not turn out too bad for us.

Once again the meetings turn out well but anti-climatic on several levels.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Ward turned down Braves for better offer. Schuerholz: “He told us we wasn’t coming to us. We really wanted him. It’s disappointing, but that happens. He took the deal that he liked.”…

So they made a great trade and lost a pinch-hitter. All in all, I’d give it a B-plus meetings grade for the Braves, all things considered, including their payroll and fact they didn’t give up LaRoche to get their man….

Josh, you’ve gotta be pretty damn cynical to consider this a failure of a meetings for the Braves. They made a great _ not good, but great in my opinion _ trade to get a setup man that other teams here were drooling over.

As for being injury prone, uh, they traded a guy who hasn’t stayed healthy for any of the past three seasons for a guy who hasn’t had any problems since Tommy John surgery, other than a sore shoulder that put him on the DL for 15 days in July, after which he threw perfectly fine when he returned.

Or is getting hit in the head by a line drive off Vlad the Bad’s bat make him injury prone? I don’t think so. They got a flat-out stud pitcher who throws 91-95 mph with great command, plus a good breaking ball (it’s a curve or slider, depending who you ask) and changeup.

I’m as skeptical as most, but come on, they gave up a guy who was fifth-starter at best next season, for a guy who can setup, close or even start if the Braves want him to (Cox just mentioned about him having the stuff and pitch repertoire to start, though Braves definitely got him to setup for now).

As for the “big deal,” hey, Bowman does good work. He obviously had someone tell him something was doing to happen. And maybe something was. But I hadn’t heard that. Means nothing more than I hadn’t heard it.

But I can tell you now, nothing big is happening today, unless it happens out of the blue. Braves don’t have anything pending, nothing close.

Schuerholz wouldn’t tip his hand regarding Giles and Tuesday, but my bet is they’re leaning toward non-tendering him if they don’t trade him first.

By DonCoburleone

December 7, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard alot of the same rumors about Soriano and his injury problems… I believe he had Tommy John surgery in 2004…

But, even if Soriano is injury proned, we still made out on this deal… We basically are swapping an injury proned starter who is slightly above average at best for an injury proned reliever who is slightly below unhittable at his best. Great deal for John Scheurholz and the Braves…

By Lew

December 7, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Charles- No problem, Dude. If nothing else, those of us on this blog are usually willing to run our mouths-constantly. Sometimes we actually have something worth saying.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

But I wouldn’t go so far as to calling the situation “pathetic” or “sickening” considering the larceny we just committed with the Soriano deal. Thumbs up to JS on that one.

By eware

December 7, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

I was hoping we’d be able to sign Ward, but Prado showed that he can hit off the bench last season. Maybe this will allow for one of our minor league guys to step up. It’ll also be less expensive. I’m sure Ward was going to get at least a million bucks, so maybe this will help us keep LaRoche.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Oh, and I guess it goes without saying, but the Ramirez/Soriano trade was finally announced. It’s official. Done deal.

By the way, Soriano ranked among AL’s top 10 relievers in ERA and opponents’ average last season. Just noticed he also allowed only six homers in 60 innings.

By Steve

December 7, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

DOB, the Seattle Mariner is reporting that Soriano is extremely injury prone and he’s an early season ending injury waiting to happen. Their saying its a matter of time before he blows out his arm too. However, the guy who wrote it seems overwhelmingly bitter about this trade too. So do you think this guy is just letting his emotions show and hoping Soriano gets hurt badly or does this guy have a good % chance of being shut down before we know it??

By Spider29

December 7, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

I like the trade with Seattle. Great move to strengthen our bullpen. I also like the “no-trade” concerning LaRoche. Not that I really want Giles traded but better him than Adam. LaRoche is a fine defensive player who is coming into his own offensively. When we lose Andruw later, we will be glad Adam is in the lineup. More speed in the lineup would be nice but it is hard to argue that point too much after the offense the Braves put up in 2006. Keep the basic core of the everyday players (minus Giles), add a piece or two for the bench and possibly another for the bullpen. Then if the Braves stay healthier than last year, I love our chances for post-season play in 2007. And thanks for keeping us informed, DOB.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

DonC, again let me state: Chuck James is NOT being traded to the D-Rays. Period. End of story…

And Hillbilly, I agree with you on Ward. They should have gotten that done weeks ago. I had a bad feeling when I talked to Daryle last month and he said how much he wanted back but how the Braves were trying to get him to sign for a lot less than he was looking for. Couldn’t write it then because he was still negotiating with them and he didn’t want me to quote him on it….

Chalk that up to a casualty of the $80 million payroll.

By Matthew

December 7, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

Keith Foulke declined arbitration and is becoming a free agent. He said he wants to be closer to home (he’s from SD but I don’t know if that’s home). Could we possibly sign him if we needed another setup man? I know Gonzalez from Pittsburgh was a possibility, and if we still want another bullpen arm, Foulke might be an affordable option. Then again, in this insane market, he’s probably too expensive.

By geauxbraves2000

December 7, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Great move IMHO in the Soriano deal. Not so great move letting Ward go, but not the end of the world. The pieces are starting to fall in place but the puzzle is still not complete.

Geaux Braves!!

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

One MORE thing: For those interested, Braves lost RHP Sean White to Pittsburgh in the Rule 5 draft. No great shakes. He’s 25 and was 5-6 with a 4.40 ERA in 16 starts last season at Richmond.

By Lew

December 7, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

HillyBilly-I hear you, Dude, but apparently it wasn’t going to be as cheap a signing as you think. Also, I couldn’t find the figures, but I seem to remember that Pete Orr had a pinch hitting BA well over .300 last year. Maybe he doesn’t have the power of Ward, but he was pretty productive and DOES have much more speed than Ward. It would have been nice to have Ward, but it is hardly going to be a devastating loss. Put down the cyanide, oh Appalachain American. Careful with that axe, Eugene.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Peter Buck turned 50 couple days ago and Tom Waits 57 today. Don’t know if that makes me feel old or young…

Selah

By DonCoburleone

December 7, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

DOB, what is his arbitration status?? Is this Soriano’s first or second year of arbitration?

By Lew

December 7, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

I tried to figure out last night, that if I were to choose who I had rather be hit in the head by a ball off the bat of either Vlad or Berkman. I’m not so sure I could make that call, but I would not even want to be close to any ball hit by Vlad.

By John Adcox

December 7, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

The Soriano deal is just amazing. Amazing. But heavens, is there no way at all to keep Giles at least until Spring Training? No wonder teams won’t trade if they think he’s going to be nontendered. That’s just astonishing to me. Now we’re… what? A million or two over budget? Jeez.

John

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

I guess you really appreciate the talent this guy has DOB. I dont think we will regret this deal but we may long for another major league starter during the season.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Another topic of conversation is the Cubs spending money during the wrong winter. If they wait another year…they get AJ or Vernon Wells instead of Soriano. I think the Cubs pretty much screwed themsleves this year. I dont see them improving that much. IMO

By Lew

December 7, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

DOB-I’m closer to Tom Waits age than either Pete Buck or yourself. I prefer to look at it as getting better, rather than older, but then again, I believe in a league wide ERA of under 3.00. I may be fooling myself. BTW-Have you heard anything about Grace Potter and the Nocturnals, a local Vermont band? She has been favorably compared (with some justification) to Bonnie Raitt and Janis Joplin, vocally.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah…think about it this way too…For the price you paid soriano you could get Schmidt and Zito. Which would you rather have…me take the two pitchers.

By tyler

December 7, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

for all of you negative braves fans out there letting JS know how bad he’s done… calm down and shut your mouth. JS is the best GM in the game and he knows exactly what he’s doing. Hitting in the 2 spot Giles is a great player when he’s healthy. When he’s injured it’s from pure effort, he tries as hard as he can on every single play. how much more can you ask of a guy. LaRoche had a breakout year last year and can grow on that. The starting pitching looks strong with smoltz, hudson (assuming he can be hudson of old), davies, james, and hampton. I just got done looking at the bullpin and assuming we get some guys healthy it looks really good now too. Left field has a question mark, but with sooooo much young talent someone is sure to come out well in there. IF we have to trade Giles for the money we should, but maybe some atlanta “fans” should stop criticizing and go to some games. Maybe stand up and chear during key situations instead of yelling at people to sit down. Then our payroll would expand and JS would actually have some money to work with.

Good job JS. Keep doing what you do!!

By Josh

December 7, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

I appologize that you guys thought I was p** about the Soriano trade, I love the trade and think its the best throughout the League.

HOWEVER, I was really hoping we’d deal for a true Leadoff Hitter, and a Left Fielder but it appears that were stuck with Giles at leadoff (Umm, don’t the Braves realise how poorly he did last year?) and Langerhans at Left Field (He did alright but will have to do more for us to get farther in the Playoffs)

Also, it would have been nice to get Andruw Jones dealt for someone of equal value or get good young pitchers, and a lead off hitter or something. But looks like Andruw will leave after this year with his agent Boras.

I guess, I was looking for more and hoping they’d realise but, I guess not.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly, Whoever’s pitching to Orr in the crunch-time situation you outlined will no doubt be reduced to a quivering pile of goo by Orr’s blinding “Upside.” Have no fear. Same goes for Aybar, though he lacks that unique “Canadian whitey” speed Orr possesses in spades.

DOB, I read that Mariner column last night as well and both the author and the bloggers responding to it almost to a man mentioned that Soriano’s arm was one pitch away from flying off. They seemed delighted that they got rid of him for that reason but were mad they didn’t get someone better in return. I take it this is just sour grapes then? Surely we had him thoroughly looked over before we made the deal?

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

DOB,

In your esteemed opinion what makes this news worthy…

“11:10 a.m., from Steve Phillips • Barry Bonds’ agent, Jeff Borris, was seen leaving the hotel.” - ESPN

I have no earthly idea why that is news….oh…and agent leaving a hotel…thats great stuff steve.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

Lew, I surrender, since you’re throwing an old (very old) Pink Floyd song at me…..Rarely do I encounter someone who is as deep into the Floyd Experience as I. And no I’m not a dopehead.

By Greg

December 7, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

DOB:

If the Braves non-tender Giles, doesn’t that mean they get nothing in return?

Wouldn’t they be better off trading him for anybody rather than non-tendering him?

Thanks.

By Jack

December 7, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, you’re excited about the Braves stealing this guy, but maybe Seattle has soured on him because they think he is an injury waiting to happen, just as we’ve soured on HoRam. The GM in Seattle is not dumb and the organization knows more about him than we do,so maybe they think they got the steal. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad we made the deal with the hope this guy will stay healthy. But, if I’m the Braves I still trade LaRoche (and I agree with you how good he is)to Pittsburg for the lefty and agree that we need to dump Giles’ salary if necessary and go with a young guy. I still believe Chipper is the key to the Braves winning the Division. If he can stay health enough to give us 140 “Chipper-like” games, including Sept. & Oct. especially with that bullpen we will win it, unless everything else falls apart.

By Serge

December 7, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Why the heck do the Braves need to cut payroll? They aleady saved 3 million from the Horam-Soriano trade.

Why not keep Giles (Who is better than Prado and the rest of the pretenders) and LaRoche?

That makes sense to me. Trading or God Forbid Non tendering Marcus Giles and DOWNGRADING at 2B just to save a couple bucks is idiocy. Especially when we should be at the 80m budget mark already…

….Unless were cutting more payroll than the Front Office is letting on… 70M 75m? And keep it on the down low to not p** off the fan base? Seems like it to me.

By David

December 7, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, why do the Braves have to be under the $80 million payroll right now instead of when the season begins? What’s to stop them from tendering Giles for now in order to continue to have his rights until such a time as a better deal opens up? Even ignoring the fact that he’s a fine player for a second, why would any team give up a good piece in exchange for Giles if they know they can get him for free in five days?

By Jason J.

December 7, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

We don’t need to trade Andruw! All you people keep saying that if we don’t then we’ll get nothing in return. That’s not true! We’ll get draft picks but most importantly…we’ll get money to spend! The money alloted for Andruw will be spent on a free agent. The Braves can sign someone that off season to replace him. I’d hate to see Andruw play somewhere else but let’s make it HIS decision. Let’s not ship him off just because we’re scared of his agent. Make a valid offer next year and let him resign if he wants…if not let’s go shopping with that money. JS knows what he’s doing so have a little faith in the man. He got us Fred McGriff for Tony Tarasco for God’s sake! Plus alot of other great moves! Go Braves!

By Lew

December 7, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

Josh-Apparently you haven’t been paying much attention. There is a major probability that Giles will no longer be a Brave, hence no leadoff in Atlanta for him. Also, no one has been mentioning Langerhans as a starting outfielder, but rather a Thorman and Diaz platoon. See, your worries have no basis. DOB-Is it at all possible the Braves could offer Giles a backloaded multi year deal with him making roughly next year what he made this? Or is it possible to non-tender him and have him resign with the Braves as a free agent?

By berigan

December 7, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

Well, who would trade from Giles if they know the Braves can’t afford to pay him 5-6 Mil? SD can sign him for one year at a lot less than that, and not trade away anyone to get him, to boot! Too bad JS has to mention how poor the team is all the time. Damn, the Yankees might just sign him to be a backup in case Cano gets hurt. They’ve got money, they can stuff like that. I do sound like a gloomy Gus, sorry. The Seattle trade was a great move. I just see a team without a leadoff hitter(I know, who needs them?) And now with a hole at 2nd base, and nothing in return to show for that hole. Perhaps JS can get some AA prospect from someone for Giles. There, call me Mr. Optimism!

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

Afternoon, HillBilly! Ok. Just this once - take off the demerits. :-)))

Scalp, no big hurry for the recipe - whenever we hit a slow spot will be fine. And I appreciate it! :-))

Lew, how’s the eye?

DOB, we really appreciate the work you’ve put in and for keeping us updated!

Nathan, boy, you are in biiiiiig trouble!! Disparaging the esteemed Wurlitzer! Wait til journalist jimmy smith sees that!! Sure am glad it wasn’t me! mmmmmm-ummph! (Actually, it was a pretty funny pickup! Don’t tell anyone I said that, though…..)

Hey, Green One! Don’t want you to feel ignored. sigh…..roll eyes….. :-))

JOURNALIST BOB IS BACK!!! slightly changed moniker - Bob, plain & simple - Bob, dear one, you will never be either plain or simple! We’re so glad you’re returned!!

By Lew

December 7, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

HillBilly-Never thought you were. Just set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun and See Emily Play, Dude. Watch out for that Interstellar Overdrive and just run like hell.

By Haywood Jablome

December 7, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Just to echo Greg’s question, what is our compensation for Giles if he is non-tendered and then signs somewhere else? What is the benefit to such a strategy?

By TennesseePaul

December 7, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

DOB: Saw this in a Pitsburgh paper:
Braves insisted on left-handed starting pitcher Paul Maholm as part of any deal, the Pirates balked at packaging him and second baseman Jose Castillo

Now, I know that this talk is dead for now, but had you heard anything about Paul Maholm and Castillo? Everything else I saw was about Gonzalez. Just curious if there was any validity to this. The guy sites un-named sources and after being enlightened the other day about the validity of un-named sources in a grand jury testimony… well you know, I thought I’d better double check it. If you have any DNA to back this up, that’d be nice too.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Billy, it wasn’t newsworthy _ only painfully uncomfortable to watch a former GM chasing down Barry and be brushed aside like a cub reporter from the ABC affiliate out of Hayseed, Neb….

Grinch, you wrote: “DOB, I read that Mariner column last night as well and both the author and the bloggers responding to it almost to a man mentioned that Soriano’s arm was one pitch away from flying off.”

Don’t know what to tell you, other than he’s had one arm injury _ Tommy John surgery _ which he came back from to pitch a career-high 60 innings last season despite missing the final month of the season after getting hit by a line drive.

He had a sore shoulder and spent 15 days on the DL in July because Seattle rode him like a rented mule in his first year back from T.J. surgery. That’s it. That’s his arm woes, near as I can tell.

And they got him for a guy who’s had elbow AND shoulder surgery and had three stints on the disabled list last year. Yeah, I hope the Braves know what they’re doing…. Geez.

By berigan

December 7, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Serge , Only thing I can figure is if it’s a HARD 80 Mil(Don’t you dare go over that amount even by a penny, JS or out the door you go!) The braves need some flexiblity in case someone gets hurt, and you can’t trade for some guy making 2 million even…I think the Batboy’s at Yankee stadium make 1.5 Million.

By DCarp23

December 7, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Another impressive number of Soriano’s in my opinion is the fact that he issued only 20 walks in 60 ip last year (not a great number, but better than many). That was a huge problem for some of the Braves less experienced relievers last year: Yates had 31 BBs in 50 innings and McBride had 32 in 56 innings. McBride improved a great deal as the season went on in that regard (he had walked 19 guys in his first 23 innings) and his ERA dropped precipitously as a result.

So the fact that you have two guys at the end of ball games now who don’t put guys on base is a HUGE improvement over the crew that was out in the pen prior to August of last season.

By pelk

December 7, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

DOB, first time poster here. Love the blog. Sorry if this has already been stated, but how much is Soriano going to be making next year? Does it save us any $?

I completely agree with holding onto LaRoche, and completely agree with dumping Giles salary. But my biggest concern is LF. Has there been any discussion of Giles for a decent bat in left? Martin Prado will be a fine defensive replacement at 2B, and any offensive fall off be too dramatic considering Giles inability to get comfortable outside the 2 spot. If a lead off man isn’t that important, as BC and JS assert, then batting an unproven talent from our system isn’t problem. We can consider that a locked in weak spot.

But my sincere belief is that Diaz’s numbers from last season were a fluke. I think the more NL pichers see him, the more they will be able to deal with his erratic swing. I think we will see a precipitous drop off in offensive production from LF next year. We have a great defensive sub for that spot, so why not use Giles to try and get another bat?

Anyone who feels we should be trading Andruw right now, should be willing to admit that they have no interest in the post season. We play this game to win championships and without Andruw this year, that is impossible. We can’t know what will happen next offseason. Our budget may go up $20 million (though it’s unlikely) JS apparently has dirt on many GMs and could swing another mammoth deal. We don’t know.

By DonCoburleone

December 7, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

I am going to have to say, I have been (and still am) a mild LaRoche basher… But I must say I don’t think we should trade him this year. He’s still going to be relatively cheap and worse(or best?)case we have him for 3 more years at 6-8 mil on his final 2 years. If he continues to put up the numbers he did this year, $8mil is a BARGAIN. However, I think if the better option is to keep him for this year, show everybody that he is a legit Power bat with gold-glove caliber defensive skills (when he’s on his med’s at least), and then trade him next offseason for a huge pitching bounty…

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

I think non-tendering Giles would be asinine. When hitting in the no. 2 slot he’s a better player than Renteria and younger. As a lead-off hitter he’s a joke, and we can all (including Giles) thank Bobby Cox for keeping him in there all year and ruining his market value almost completely. If Marcus had been in the 2 hole all year he would’ve hit .280-90 with 15-20 homers and an assload of doubles, and his defense speaks for itself. Now we get a “salary dump” of about 5 mil which in this market is just about enough to get someone half as good as Giles. Thanks Bobby! I’m starting to appreciate Robert’s point of view more and more.

By Lew

December 7, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

If we non tender Giles he becomes a free agent and we get nothing since we didn’t go the arbitration route. Ma’am-How are you doing? Mom and Kelly well? I saw the eye DR. yesterday for the one week check up and the vision has improved to 20/30 from 20/200. They are thrilled as they never thought it would ever get better than 20/60. Now there is and always will be retinal damage and a bad blurry spot, but as long as there is no retinal difficulty in my left eye, I’m fine. If the left eye goes, so does the artistic career, in all likelihood.

By Myron

December 7, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Why should we waste our time and energy following the Braves anymore if the so-called owners cannot invest enough money to keep the team competitive?

Suppose the producers of Casino Royale did not have a big enough payroll to get Daniel Craig - so they settled for the affordable Steve Buscemi to play Bond. Would that interest you?

By TennesseePaul

December 7, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

LOL! OK, two things now that I’ve caught up a bit on the blog.

By beachcomber

December 7, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Allow me to join the chorus - great trade. Even better was not making the deal with the Angels. Don’t think we’ve seen the best of LaRoche just yet. Figgins’ average and OBP have gone down each each. Kotchman hit a buck fifty two last year - good kid though - watched him play H.S. ball down here in Florida. Still having trouble understanding why Aybar is out of the mix for lead-off and second base if we must unload Giles. His OBP is much beter than than Figgins. Should be an interesting spring. Just a little over sixty days and counting!

By Efrim D

December 7, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, the Braves still don’t have a leadoff hitter. They did a tremendous job with the Soriano trade. I would not trade Laroche for Figgins and Kotchman. But if Adenhart was in any package, I would deal Laroche and Giles to the Angels for him. That kid is the third best righty in the minors behind hughes and bailey. They shouldnt non tender Giles, but trading him for Brendan Donnelly, who also will be non tendered, is a possiblity. As much as it would hurt the Braves in 07, they should deal Hudson. There is no way a team will take him for 2 years 26 million unless he has a sub 3.30 era. He def. will not!!!

By Phat Phalcon

December 7, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

Well DOB since you said there’s no new trades I guess we can start with the fantasy world again. Here’s one from left field for you:

Andruw to ChiSox for Podsednik and a slew of prospects.

Renteria and some of above-mentioned slew to O’s for Tejada and cash.

Hope for rebound offensive year for Podsednik batting leadoff and playing solid CF defense while having a stick at SS locked up for a few years that’s at least as good as Andruw’s (better OBP, slightly fewer HR’s). Do what you will with Giles.

By David

December 7, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

“Suppose the producers of Casino Royale did not have a big enough payroll to get Daniel Craig - so they settled for the affordable Steve Buscemi to play Bond. Would that interest you?”

This is a bad example in that it’s established by the Broccoli family that they were unwilling to pay a name actor like Clive Owen or Ewan McGregor to play Bond. The main reason Craig got the gig is because he was dirt cheap.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

I know their has to be at least one team that will give something up for Giles…I cant belive he has no value. Stupid question I know…will JS non-tender him just because he does not think he is getting fair value in a trade? Naw, that’s not true….there has to be team that wants him.

By TK

December 7, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

I just wanted to throw a name out. Zack Greinke of the KC Royals. This kid was rushed to the majors on a bad team. It got to him badly. Maybe being traded to the Braves would help him get back on track. Not having to be the #1 starter and get some backing. I have not heard much about him in a while. But, at one time he had a lot of potential. He could turn out to be the Brandon Phillips of 2007.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Phat Phalcon,

Did we ever leave fantasy world?

By Tom-a-hah

December 7, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Hey - if the Mariners had a bunch of prospects, I guess you could call them a Seattle slew!

Speaking of this guy Figgins, I’m a big fan. You might say that I’m a real chone-head.

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

December 7, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

I’m okay with letting Prado leadoff next year. I would like to have a legit leadoff guy but there aren’t a whole lot of reasonable option out there right now.

I’m a heavy LaRouche basher and I’m willing to trade him to upgrade the speed and athleticism on the team. If Larouche was in that Baldelli package then i say do it. I am comfortable with either Thorman of Kelly Johson playing 1B.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Actually, Myron, I’d love to see Buscemi playing Bond; that would be beyond hilarious.

Hillbilly, you’re not a dopehead? Oh, well; you’re still a pretty good guy I guess. :-)

Off to the gym.

By Chad

December 7, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

Still don’t get why Giles would ever be non-tendered? Certainly some team out there would like to trade for him and not have to compete on the insane free agent market that is this offseason.

Or, alternatively, why not offer him a contract that he’s likely to get in arbitration (maybe a bit lower) but which would be far less than on today’s free agent market? He wouldn’t sign, but at least he wouldn’t be non-tendered and we’d still have him to shop…

Or am I missing something?

By jjgrogan

December 7, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

O’Brien……..thanks for the GREAT updates and comments. Love to read every one, keep up the GREAT reports!!

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Perhaps you could repost those salary numbers you put up on that other blog yesterday. If these guys have a calculator they could add the salaries of the highest paid 7 or 8 players and see that there is no $5 or $6 million left to pay to Giles. It simply isn’t there.

I don’t know what Ward wanted but by not signing him they may well be able to keep Giles where with Ward they would have had to non tender Giles. It is that close with the budget and budgets are made to be followed. It isn’t John S’s money he’s spending.

There are people on this blog who can’t even understand the principal of pro-ration. Hampton’s salary has been partially written off over the years and his hit against the budget is not $14 or $15 million but closer to $9 mil.

Is there a way to filter out all future DEMANDS that Andruw be traded? Damn, just damn. I am so tired of reading that crap. Andruw says he is not going anywhere and HE HAS THE SAY SO ON THAT TOPIC.

John S. and Bobby have done their usual good work (other than last year when they went with Reitsma as closer) and I fully expect them to be in the chase from day one in ‘07. With Soriano and Wickman Smoltz is assured of at least 5 more wins next year. That will make him the biggest bargain in all of baseball.

By braves1us

December 7, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Hey guys… I’m a Braves fan living in the Northwest… Because TBS has made life miserable for me, I am now following the Mariners much more closely… JS stole this one, and Bill Bavasi is a bafoon… the Mariners could have received much more for this, but they are desperate… they let Moyer go, can’t stand Meche and Pinerio is a gas can… so, they basically have three opening in their rotation… and, despite having money to spend they tried playing hardball with Schmidt and Adam Eaton (two guys from the Seattle area)- and despite saying they wanted to come home they ended up elsewhere… the Mariners are desperate and JS took advantage of him… Soriano is a stud… DOB says 91-95 - but, I’ve seen him regularly in 96-98 range. When he’s on (more times than not) he’s unhittable. About once every two weeks he’ll have a meltdown, but he’s mostly on and a stud. A great addition for the Braves. And, just in time because this trade will probably be Bavasi’s last… the bafoon will be looking for work soon.

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

It was reported that Hampton offered to restructure his contract to free up some money for Glavine. OK. The team is a few million short of what it needs to keep and re-sign people. Why not take Hampton up on his offer? Seems like it would help the situation. :-)

By Serge

December 7, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Prado isnt a legit leaddoff guy, hell hes not a legit major leauger. Hes not real good and the dropoff from Marcus to him will be inmense.

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

To trade Giles another team must have the following:

1. A solid need for a second baseman, (one the Braves no longer want).

2. They must have $5-6 million available to pay him.

3. They must have someone who they are willing to throw into the mix but he is not likely to be anyone important.

If the shoe was on the other foot would the Braves trade a GOOD PLAYER for a throw away second baseman knowing they are going to have to pay that second baseman $5-6 million? I don’t think so. That is 7% of the Braves’ total payroll, it ain’t chopped liver.

And remember about half of all teams have a lower budget than the Braves.

By When in Rome

December 7, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

What does it mean to “non-tender” a player? Does he become a FA?

By chip

December 7, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

People in my line of work have a saying: “When the ark is sinking, throw out the elephants first.”

The Braves payroll is sinking them. They’re not going to win with cheap pieces. Surely you trade Andrew Jones (who at this point is facing his last year with the Braves) in order to give you some budget flexibility and afford the pieces you need. This solution looks obvious.

Doubters can say the Braves would miss the big stick and defense, but you stick Langerhans in center for defense, and you buy a cheaper hitter for left field. AND purchase a bullpen. JS is a smart man…he’s got to see the problem.

By Efrim D

December 7, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

I agree with a post back there. Giles for Greinke. Great deal. Who knows if the royals would do it. Greinke’s value is down, Royals still have money to spend. They might want Giles.

By Phat Phalcon

December 7, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Anyone who has ever followed Scott Boras knows that “Andruw’s staying” translates to “It’ll cost someone an arm, a leg, and a nut to be named later if Andruw’s leaving.” If another team gave him $18M or so for six years he’d go.

By flbravesgirl

December 7, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

I really dislike the idea of non-tendering Giles. What a waste. Is there no possiblity at all that the Braves keep him if a trade can’t be made or would that put them over budget?

Grinch, I’m not ignoring you. My computer keeps having hissy fits plus I’m busy getting into Christmas baking mode here.

Hi, CL, Lew, Bob,etc.

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Carolina Lady, your suggestion on reworking contracts is a good one but actually Hampton’s impact on the budget next year is around $9 million, not a lot of room there.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I wasn’t trying to diss my man Bowman. Seriously. We get along great. And he may well have heard that last night, and there may well have been something to it. I’m just saying I heard nothing last night of another “big trade” to come Thursday, that’s all. And I can tell you now it’s not going to happen today, unless it develops quickly and unexpectedly. Nothing’s imminent, for certain….

The Castillo thing with Pittsburgh is worth keeping an eye on, but only if the Braves plan to non-tender or trade Giles by Tuesday. They WON’T be giving up LaRoche to Pittsburgh now for a package of him and a pitcher, that’s certain….

A lot of you ask why they’d non-tender Giles and get nothing for him. Well, they’d only do it if they were convinced that NO TEAM would take his salary and give them something in return as well. If they don’t want to be stuck paying him more than $5 mill, they’d have no choice but non-tender him and either let him go or try to re-sign him at a lower price as a free agent (which seems unlikely, given the bad blood that would likely exist in that scenario after being non-tendered)….

Serge, you asked a few questions:

“Why the heck do the Braves need to cut payroll? They aleady saved 3 million from the Horam-Soriano trade.”

No, they saved about $1.2 mill, the difference between Horacio’s projected salary and Soriano’s. Soriano is a second-time-eligible guy, but salary is lower than others of such service (four years) and statistics because he accrued nearly two years of that service while on the 60-day DL recovering from elbow surgery in ‘04-‘05. He’ll make about $2 mill, probably….

Serge also asked: “Why not keep Giles (Who is better than Prado and the rest of the pretenders) and LaRoche?” Because if you keep both, you’re going to probably be over $80 mill if you keep both, by the time you sign all the other non-arbitration guys and give them their small raises….

Somebody else asked why the Braves need to be under $80 mill payroll now instead of when season begins.

Hey, I don’t know that they do, but it sure stopped them from making an offer to Glavine, or at least John S. said that’s what stopped them….

By Lew

December 7, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Ma’am-DOB talked about that the other day. When Chipper restructured his contract and Smoltz also, they had option years that they were able to trun into guaranteed years. Hampton has no such thing in his contract that could be dealt with. He would have to have years added to make it work and with the current ownership situation, they can not make long term commitments that aren’t already there. Now for all of you so hot to get Rocco Baldelli. He played 90 games last year, after missing more than a year and a half with an assortment of injuries, not limited to but including hamstring problems. He has never hit more than 16 HR’s and is hardly a Dale Murphy type player as someone suggested last night. He is certainly not worth LaRoche.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Big Daddy,

you had me for a minute, but Giles is not a trhow away 2B by any stretch of the imaginaiton…I suspect most teams would agree however you point about wanting to pay him right on target. It doesnt really matter who we get as long as he is not non-tendered…and we get nothing. Which I really dont think is going to happen.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

For those of you who missed it last night…this was funny…blames DOB (not by name) for wrecking the Gonzo deal…laughable.

http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/myweblog/2006/12/quickupdate_on.html

By Lew

December 7, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

Chip-What seems obvious is that you haven’t paid a damn bit of attention to what has been discussed about the Andruw situation. Can you say 10-5 and no desire by the Braves to trade him?

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

I was sorely disappointed at the fall-through of the Gonzalez deal. But, upon reflection, I think Braves are better having Soriano WITH LaRoche than having Gonzalez WITHOUT LaRoche. However, if LaRoche is now dealt for anything less than a top starter, I’d start thinking a little less of JS. Personally, I hope Braves keep the guy.

By Kieran From Long Island

December 7, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

“Sorry, but I’m not into the fanning-the-flames crap that goes on here, the throw-it-all-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks mentality.”

I love the scatological analogy. It is so necessarily vulgar. I live around stores that distribute the NY Daily News and I’m wondering if the Columns in that peice of work is the real source of the outbreak of teh E Coli Virus around here. Just to give you a sample. Of such excrement.

“Salatamaccia’s stock has fallen after a tough year in the minors. How bout him for Pavano, Yankees eat the money”

That one off an ESPN Chat wrap.

Yankee fans are stupendous folks. The ignorance is mind boggling

By Glass Half Full

December 7, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Gil Meche signed with the Royals according to Steve Philips.

By Glass Half Full

December 7, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

Say, who is that Royals GM? Seems like I’ve heard his name before. Hmmmmm….

By Sir Stealth

December 7, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

LaRoche’s stats almost, almost, make me want to believe that he really can be great and shouldn’t be traded now. But I know what I saw, dammit. I saw a guy the last couple years who came up often with runners in scoring position and, if Francoeur was hot, would hit into a dp so that Jeff wouldn’t get a chance, and if Francoeur was cold, would usually just strike out. The guy was a k machine last year when we desperately needed wins to keep pace. He was on fire in the second half but if you remember he was on fire in the second half of 2005 also and took a while to round into shape. I just don’t buy that the guy can be a great first baseman, I wish I could.

Some might say its harsh not to have gotten over the defensive lapse this season. Personally, I was still too bitter about him not running the bases hard in the NLDS to care about that too much. So yeah, that’s harsh

And don’t talk to me about his defense. People act like he has an Ozzie Smith like impact from the first base position. Its just not true. He’s a good defensive first baseman. The overall impact over other first basemen on the game out in the field though is just marginal though.

Sorry for the rant. I am not a Braves hater, and I am not a pessimist. But in case we trade the guy, I just watned to make the case for not being super upset about it. If we keep him, then I’ll cheer like hell for him and hope to be proven wrong everyday. He seems like a nice guy. But I could let him go now while the stock is high.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/my_weblog/

DOB Whats your comment about this….

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Oh, man. I wish they did more. Lots more.

By pelk

December 7, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Andruw will be in a Braves uniform this season. He will not be in one next. We all need to get comfortable with this reality.

By Sir Stealth

December 7, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

I also am very surprised that people really wanna trade Andruw right now. Everything went wrong last season, but now, with a bullpen that is better than atrocious, if we can avoid even a hint of the degree of the injury bug that railed us last season, this can be a championship caliber team. If Chipper stays healthy, and I know that is a big if, I mean that’s huge right there. Andruw in a contract year is not something to discard. The pieces are there folks, this team is capable of going all the way right now and there is no way in hell we should rebuild. I would be absolutely devastated if we didn’t get to see Andruw as a Brave for another year. Who knows, maybe Liberty will in fact raide the payroll and he can play out his whole career in Atlanta.

By Voice of Reason

December 7, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Let’s see… JS leaves the meetings having accomplished his main goal - acquiring a top set-up man - and half the folks on this blog want to b!tch and moan about Giles, LF and leadoff. (BTW, for the doomsayers, the closing of the meetings doesn’t seal the roster for 2007!) Look, people (you know who your are), for the last time, the offense was not the problem in 2006!!! The Braves scored the 5th most runs in all of MLB last year, 2nd in the NL. Now, tell me again how bad we are without a “true leadoff” hitter? The bullpen, however, converted only 38 of 67 saves. That’s 29 blown saves! The Braves finished the season 79-83. Add just half (or 14) of those 29 blown saves and you finish with 93 wins. 93 wins! 93 wins takes the wild-card by 5 games. So, having already signed Wickman, and having now acquired a solid 7th-8th inning guy, haven’t the Braves already had a successful winter? Please, get out of the “true leadoff hitter” misery. Do we have to call the Mythbusters to dispell this one?

By Sir Stealth

December 7, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

I would also like to take the opportunity to wail and moan in vain about our payroll. This Giles business just sucks. The guy had a down year last year for a variety of reasons, but he’s been an all star caliber second baseman. Taking him out of the equation is not a hole easily filled. Just dropping him for nothing is unbearable. It makes you wish JS could just beg for some kind of salary leeway, but obviously with this terrible sale situation that’s not gonna happen. If he could figure out how to not hit number 2, just think about how powerful our lineup would be if we could keep him and everyone played to their healthy potential. Its so frustrating.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 7, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

christmas baking mode? oh, the humanity! eating of christmas-baking is one of jimmy smith’s favorite pursuits. and when will the first pies be ready, flabravesgirl? and who will bake for wicky? now, plain and simple bob bears a strong resemblance to another bob who used to hang around here. polonius? american league, right? now, trades … journalist will trade one small seal chair for a larger chair that will accommodate a growing seal. and what of felix pie? will js trade for felix pie while the cubs gm is in a weakened condition? and what of all the new identities on exhibit yesterday and today from our special blogger? surely, it is not shirley. now, tranisition to baseball … if giles is non-tendered could it help avoid future injuries? did giles not miss time with a tender hand last season? and what of chipper? he is eating much of the payroll and no one seems to want to acquire him. if chipper were gone, that would free some big bucks (not the kind you kill and chipper autographs). oh, well … this journalist is ready to accept the slings and arrows of those who will tell this journalist that chipper is the face of the franchise. face has whiskers, tobacco, gum, and seeds all over it. still, can hit a little bit as demonstrated last season between oblique and toe injuries. will chipper report to camp ready to compete with the younger guys? did chipper have a flu shot? are toes in good health? how many toes? just a rumor. how about chipper to the rangers and the braves sign andruw?

By dfree

December 7, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

DOB, i have never heard any rumors about renteria, as good as he was last year, he definitely tailed off in the second half, do you here anything about letting escobar, maybe pena play short and getting renteria’s 6 mil off the books, the braves could probably get something good for him at that low salary.

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Andruw Jones ($13.5 mill)

Chipper Jones ($12 mill)

John Smoltz ($11 mill _ FYI, that’s $8 mill and half his $6 mill signing bonus)

Hampton ($9 mill)

Tim Hudson ($8.5 mill _ remember, he got a $10 mill signing bonus)

Bob Wickman ($6.5 mill)

Edgar Renteria ($6 mill; Red Sox paying part of his $9 mill average salary).

Add it up and weep: $66.5 mill

Now add $6 for Giles and you are at $72.5 mil. That leaves $7.5 million to pay all these other guys.

Blaine Boyer,
Lance Cormier,
Kyle Davies,
Joey Devine,
Chuck James,
Macay McBride, Chad Paronto, Chris Reitsma,
Rafael Soriano,
Phil Stockman,
Tanyon Sturtze,
Oscar Villarreal,
Tyler Yates,
Brian McCann,
Brayan Pena,
Willy Aybar,
Adam LaRoche,
Pete Orr,
Martin Prado,
Scott Thorman,
Matt Diaz, Jeff Francoeur,
Kelly Johnson,
Ryan Langerhans,

Are you beginning to get the idea that the $5-6 million for Giles is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT?

By TennesseePaul

December 7, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

DOB, I figured you got along with Bowman alright. I mean, if not, you wouldn’t let him copy over your shoulder during the regular season =) Anywho, it was more for sh!ts-n-giggles. I’m sure Bowman occassionally does his own work. He does answer 5 emails a week for the mailbag section of the site.

For the Giles scenario, couldn’t they offer him a contract prior to non-tendering?
I will keep an eye on that Maholm possibility. Though personally I think trading LaRoche now would be a serious hit to the line up. He produced well from the bottom of the order.

By GranDaddy

December 7, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

So now who in their right mind would trade for Giles while farmer Schuerholz is talking about taking him out behind the barn to put him out of his misery?

By Fulton

December 7, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

Fix the Braves? Then try firebobbycoxnow.com He has proven time and time and time and time again, that he cannot manage a team thru the post season. With Bobby at the helm, the Braves are like the race car that runs great during quailfying….but NEVER WINS A RACE!!! No other major city would tolerate this level of complacency…..

By NCBravesFan

December 7, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Kieran - good stuff! Any idea as to why the Yankees (apparently) are not pursuing Zito? Seems like they have spent money for the sake of spending money for so long … and then you see a guy come along who could really help their pitching staff for a long time … and zero interest as far as we know. My guess is Zito is headed to NY, since (money aside) who wants to pitch in 450 degree heat in Dallas all summer?

By Lew

December 7, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

VOR-You speak reason, as usual. I’ll go you one better. Does anyone really think we will have another 6-23 month? If you turn that around to an average 16-13 month, we win 89 games and the WC. Add to that a GOOD bullpen, which is what we now have and we win 95 or more games and are battling the Mets for the division. I really fail to see the reason for the pessimism among so many. The Mets still have major questions regarding their rotation and I just don’t see Moises Alou being a big improvement over Cliff Floyd. The Phillies may find more pitching, but they still have to pitch in Philadelphia. The Nationals are a non-issue and the Marlins have two pitchers (Olsen and Sanchez) who were overused lastyear (see Tom Verducci’s SI.Com article) and are due for a sophomore slump, or worse yet, arm trouble. I like the view from where I’m looking.

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

Big Daddy, you are right. Well, it was a thought.

Another thought is: has Giles expressed any desire to stay a Brave? Since there hasn’t been much interest in taking on his salary in this swap-fest, he might want to consider contacting JS, giving him a lower salary figure that would fit into the budget, and staying where he is. Dunno. Seems there should be a way to work all of this out. I’m an expert at ‘Creative Budgeting’! :-)))

Hey, FBG! You are one busy lady! Good to hear from you!

Lew, I’m truly happy for the success of the operation! You’ve gotta be feeling great about it!

By Salty

December 7, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

A random ‘hot league’ moment: whether the Soriano/HoRam trade qualifies as the norm, JS seems to pull trades that aren’t obvious. There are two issues regarding Giles at this point: 1. Let him go 2. Find cash…how?

How about Renteria for Visquel (mentioned it up a couple months back)? Giants are old (they’re taking this senior league thing way too far!). Visquel would free $2+million…to keep Giles? He’d be a heckuva (no demerits, CL?) mentor younger SS’s in the Braves system?

As for LaRoche, his swing worries me…it’s loopy and requires ‘spot on’ timing. When he’s hot…he sizzles; when he’s not…he’s a ‘K’ machine (quoting an earlier post). Does his swing bring to mind another player who had a solid career…I’m clueless.

By GranDaddy

December 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Better off keepin’ Andruw Jones thru his ‘07 contract year, y’all know how them boys put up big ol’ numbers during a contract year. Why ol’ Andruw will be lookin’ like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and that Roberto Clemente all wrapped up in one in ‘07. After that, drop that boy like a hot tater!

By Lew

December 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Oh, The outrageous fortune, Horacio (now in Seattle).

By Schoolio

December 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Tender vs Non-Tender

This is intended to explain by illustration:

Marcus Giles is quasi-non-tender.

Kenny Rogers is non-tender. Ty Cobb was the ultimate non-tender.

Tim Hudson is tender. Johnny Mathis is extremely tender.

Marlon Brando coulda been a non-tender.

Elvis loves me tender.

Tom Cruise played a ‘tender in Cocktail.

Barry Bonds is waiting on tender hooks to see if the Giants offer him 18 million.

X-box is better than non-tend-o.

By braves fan

December 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do you think the Braves are having a hard time dealing Giles because teams think he may get non-tendered due to the Braves’ payroll situation? Or would that mean a new team would have to spend more than Giles would get in arbitration?

By Lew

December 7, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

Fulton-You’re really Robert playing Stinky games. Right?

By ernesto

December 7, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

I know htat this has already been asked, but don’t know if it was answered and I just missed it - but if we non-tender Giles is he just a free agent? That sounds crazy to me. Why would that be a good move on any level?

By GermanBravesFan

December 7, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

I have been following the blogs over the past few days and wanted to give my two cents worth…

1. Great trade to get Soriano - too bad there are too many skeptics out there! Ramirez hasn’b been healthy in two years and Soriano just came back from JT surgery and will be just fine!

2. Keeping Laroche is an excellent move! The guy is cheap, played a great season in ‘06 and should be improving even more next year. He proved that he can hit lefties and righties and will be an everyday player

3. Giles? He is replacable. He never felt comfortable in the leadoff spot and if other teams interpret this as his slight drop in production, they will be willing to trade for him. Today’s economics are just horrible! I like Giles a lot and he came out of the Braves’ system. Too bad we can’t keep him, but it’s understandable the Braves will try to move him.

4. Andruw Jones will play out the season with the Braves! It is obvious that he likes Atlanta and would love to stay there. It’s unfortunate that he won’t go negotiate his own deal again… (I actually work at Scott Boras’ alma mater where he donated $250,000 to the baseball program a few years ago)

5. Tim Hudson: will rebound and have a great season this year! Improving the bullpen will take a lot of pressure off him (and, for that matter, the rest of the starters!)

6. Left Field: give Matt Diaz an everday chance to start. I believe he has earned it after last season! Langerhans is great defensively and could be the fourth outfielder.

As many others have pointed out before: Atlanta had a good offense last year and will have almost the same line-up this year. I think the leadoff hitter is overrated - how many times does he actually lead off an inning?

Anyways, that’s it for me. I am looking forward to hearing your comments.
AND: DOB - great job!! Enjoyed all the insights!

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Billy, Giles is a throw-away if they can’t afford to pay him and no one will offer anything more than a bag of used balls for him.

Sorry, but this salary thing is really getting out of hand when more than half the teams can’t even think of putting a Giles on their payrolls.

Any small market team that does not have a good farm system is in for some tough years. Baseball ought to consider going to a 2 league structure of 8 teams each and each of those 16 teams would have one AAAA team as a partner. That way marginal players would play for the AAAA team and be brought up when needed. There are enough really Major League players capable of stocking about 16 teams, for sure not enough to stock 30 teams.

We would see some really great baseball that way and the teams in AAAA would also have good baseball and be able to compete with similar teams in their league.

Frankly, I see little value in pretending that Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Seattle, Arizona, Florida, Washington, Baltimore, San Diego, Texas, Colorado, etc. can compete with the likes of the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Braves, Cardinals, Giants, Dodgers, etc.

Of course there would be knashing of teeth over any such craziness as even suggesting this but the truth is the BIB teams are somewhat like the Harlem Globetrotters, making the rounds and playing the patsies, on far too many occasions.

OK, have fun with that one.

By Kieran from Long Island

December 7, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

I think the problem with the Yanks on Zito is that they have spent so much money the past few years and seen it go nowhere towards achieving the Championship that they crave each year. I think their game plan coming into this ofseason is to step back let other teams overpay, and work on molding together the team they have. Bringing in Pettite/Clemens (inside their nostolgic minds) they feel will help push them back to where they were chemistry-wise a couple years ago. I really think that they feel bringing in Zito, who is an eccentric dude, and anotehr monster contract will just be adding another Chef(or should I say Sheff) to an over crowded kitchen.

By NCBravesFan

December 7, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Ernesto - my understanding is he would become a FA. That is not a good move in the sense that you are giving up something for nothing … but in the big picture, the salary savings make it a necessary move, no matter how regrettable.

By Merle

December 7, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

Count me as another one who loves getting Soriano. I followed him in the minors and he was considered one of the outstanding prospects in all the majors. The kid can really, really, bring it!! Eclectric type stuff more times than not. As far as those “health” concerns. Who really knows that?!? Nobody…it’s all speculation. Remember everyone saying how Mark Prior would never get hurt because he had “perfect mechanics?” Luis Tiant pitched a loong time, and he had one of the most screwed up deliveries you’d care to find.

LaRoche??? Was last year a career year?!? Hope not. I believe that Thorman has big time potential. He has just gotten better and better. You like to see the guys who improve as they move up the system. I’m not sold on Langerhans or Kelly Johnson yet.

Giles….hey…the guy could VERY well come back this year and hit .310 - .325. He has that kind of ability. Hope so too!

We have some good infield talent down on the farm you’ll be seeing and hearing about too. Elvis Andrus at short…Yunel Escobar, who will likely end up at 2B…or 3B. Eric Campbell is going to be an offensive STUD!! Write it down. He’s at 3B…but they are going to also see what he can do at 2B.

By don

December 7, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

This is great. Where else would you see a lackluster like Figgins called a “stud” and be told that the meetings were great for the Braves because they got what amounts to an unknown quantity in Soriano. I’m sure Seattle feels that they got a “steal” themselves- a lefthanded starter for really little or nothing.

By Voice of Reason

December 7, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Schoolio. I needed that today!

By Salty

December 7, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

An $80 million payroll isn’t the issue…it’s the ‘apparent’ unrestrained payrolls of a few clubs that skew reality! Heck, even the 80/20 apportionment with the Braves isn’t outrageous on the whole.

This year’s signee list is ridiculous: Pierre, Matthews, Lilly, Padilla, Roberts, Lugo, etc., and guys like Lofton awaiting $6 million for a year…who’s tending this loony farm!?! It’s been ‘retread heaven!’

Some heavy contraction is imminent…and it may well benefit the Braves come next year…as I believe someone else has already mentioned (props, always!).

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Lew, No Sweat,

When that Fat Old Sun in the Sky is Falling, I’ll Keep Talking Outside the Wall saying GoodBye Cruel World, Learning to fly to that Great Gig in the Sky at Childhood’s End, wondering what happened to the Postwar Dream, while I Have a Cigar and listen to the Echoes of Pigs on the Wing with Corporal Clegg and Arnold Layne.

By drain-o

December 7, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Who cares they can’t win the big one!

By krath

December 7, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

I’m not even asking this question of DOB…. I’m just confused and thinking out loud I guess. Even though I’m not sure when the Braves payroll has to be at 80 mil, it would seem if they are willing to let Giles just walk so as not to pay his salary….. there should have been some flexibility for signing Glavine. The explanations I heard for not signing Glavine before they moved Giles was that teams would know they were desperate and they wouldn’t get anything for Giles. Well it’s starting to look like they aren’t going to get anything out of Giles anyway, and Glavine didn’t even receive an offer.

Looks like the GM job is like the game itself. Even great managers sometimes choose to walk a guy to get to the guy on deck and that guy hits a home run! lol

By Jon B

December 7, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Josh Dude, do you even have a clue? What makes you think Giles will even be here next year?

DO’B You said Soriano could start, setup, or close right. That sounds like another Sosa, but with good command. If Jorge could have just thrown strikes, he would have been dominant. So, if this Soriano guy has the same, if not better, stuff that Sosa has and can throw strikes, then heck, I am one happy camper.

Also, do you think JS will have to do a Millwood type trade with Giles, trade him because we cant afford him for someone we hope will be good. Man, this is odd.

By Jon B

December 7, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Oh, and I believe someone was asking if we got anyone in the Rule 5 Draft. I dont know if its been answered or not, but no, Braves couldnt pick up anyone because their 40-man roster was full.

By Voice of Reason

December 7, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

JS on 680 the fan at 3:30…

By Mitchie-san

December 7, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

I dont care if we trade Giles for a guy in Rookie ball somewhere, it would be better than not getting anything!

By Sir Stealth

December 7, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Seeing firebobbycox in bold, even on some blog message board, breaks my heart. In my opinion the man is the greatest figure in Atlanta sports history bar none.

By Matthew

December 7, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Journalist Jimmy:

I have a suggestion, my friend. Two words…DEE CAFF:)

You are excellent at making multiple points in one posting, but I cannot agree with you on Chipper. Even if Chipper had four toes missing and one oblique completely gone, he hits better than most of the 3B in the NL. He has already redone his deal to the Braves advantage, and seems to genuinely love the people and the franchise. If we have to trade Chipper OR Andruw, or lt Andruw walk, I say let him walk after 2007. We will recover the 13.5 mil in the payroll and get a couple of draft picks.

I cannot wait for Christmas. It’s been weeks since I enjoyed my grandmother’s choclate meriegne (sic) pie.

By David

December 7, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the reply earlier about the $80 million barrier now vs. March.

With regards to the team’s plans for 2007, who do you see being the first guy to hit for us on opening day? Aybar? Kelly Johnson if healthy? Chone Figgins or Carl Crawford?

I like a lot of what we have done this offseason, but we just spent a year spinning our wheels without a leadoff hitter. I cannot comprehend us starting next year with the matter unsettled.

By Nathan (You know, THE IDIOT WITH NO INTEGRITY)

December 7, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Billy

Nice find on the link below:

http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/my_weblog/

I KNEW IT!!!

DOB, you sly devil, you! It was you in the Kitchen, with the candlestick, that made the Gonzalez/LaRoche deal fall through. How dare you “start” somthing in the papers that upsets JS.

WOW, talk about making stuff up!……Right?

By Patrick

December 7, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

DARYLE WARD CLOSE TO DEAL WITH CUBS! [http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061207&contentid=1753943&vkey=newschc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc]

By N8

December 7, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Hey, I just noticed that my “name” wasn’t changed yet at my work computer.

Now it is. :)

By Chad

December 7, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave,

Do you have any new news on the status of the when the sale of the Braves will be done. I have not heard much on it so I was just curious to know if their was any new updates.

By Frank Z

December 7, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Arkansas hillbillies must be reminded Don’t Eat The Yellow Snow.

Especially when Nanook Rubs It.

John Smoltz will be the featured motivational speaker at this years St. Alfonzo’s Pancake Breakfast.

The Braves will sink into Father O’Blivion unless they spend more money on players.

Pettite/Clemens are Cosmik Debris. Where will they land?

Andruw’s warmup swings generate a lot of Excentrifugal Forz.

If Roger Maris is an Asterisk then Barry Bonds is an Apostrophe.

The Braves new bullpen coach is Uncle Remus.

Chipper Jones will be placed on the DL due to Stink-Foot.

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

Leadoff hitters hit leadoff just once in a game. JUST ONCE. So what we’re really saying is that we want to get a hitter who can hit for average and who is fast.

Pierre is one of those. Furcal is another and now they are both on the same team. Are the Dodgers better off or would they be better if they could replace one of those guys with a power hitter like JD Drew?

By andrew

December 7, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

I know this is a concern among a lot of Braves fans, and it has been “answered” on multiple occasions by various people close to the Braves organization as well as people within the press, but I want to get a clear answer from someone I trust more…that person being you.

I understand that Scott Boras is a tough agent to deal with, and his asking price for Andruw Jones will be way out of the Braves’ range after the 2007 season, but I don’t get why Andruw’s affinity for the Braves doesn’t stop this from happening at all. It seems to me like AJ’s so-called “love” for the Braves is no match for his real love of money. Otherwise, wouldn’t he negotiate a lower price to stay with them? I donno…the press just makes it seem like Boras controls Andruw’s decisions and so we won’t see any discounting or level-headed negotiations…instead Braves fans are probably going to watch their superstar walk after the season for nothing but a few compensatory draft picks and perhaps more bitter hearts from fans towards ball players because of their lust for money over loyalty and integrity.

By mr baseball

December 7, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

For those of you who have been brainwashed into believing the Braves’ GM is a genius, a little history lesson. JS made his rep in Atl in the early ’90s with four signings/trades (Pendleton, Maddux, McGriff, Grissom), which helped the Braves play in 4 of the next 5 World Series. However, we are approaching the 10th anniversary of the week that began the Braves’ slide from a very competitive post-season team to one of the worst in sports history.

In March of ‘97, JS traded an entire starting outfield for 1 year of a disgruntled Kenny Lofton, 2 players best suited to backup roles and a LH reliever who never panned out. Regardless of the justification for the deals, they were disasters on their face, but the arrival of Andruw and the signing of Jordan kept the team going for the next few years until the genius GM made one of the WORST TRADES IN BASEBALL HISTORY.

Since the ill-fated Boone/Klesko trade to SD, a team that went to the WS 5 times in 8 years and was 15-2 in the NLDS has lost in the first round 5 of 6 times, repeatedly against lesser opponents. During the 3 years after the trade w/SD, the two positions vacated by Boone and Klesko produced absolutely nothing offensively, as the genius GM sat back and allowed the Braves to squander some of the best pitching efforts in their 15-year run.

Sanders and Veras were abject failures and Joyner did nothing other than run Randall Simon out of town. Boone and Klesko blossomed the minute they got out of a Braves uniform, although 1 of them may have had some help in that department.

JS brought in the likes of Rico Brogna and a steroid-abusing ex-MVP, and the playoff fiascos of 2000, ‘01 and ‘02 were the result. Since then, JS has traded almost every pitching prospect the Braves farm system has produced in a series of deals that may have helped the team in the short run (Sheffield, Drew, Farnsworth, etc.) but don’t look quite so favorable in retrospect, especially the latter 2. JS really hopes Jose Capellan isn’t a late bloomer.

A lot of the pitchers the Braves have dealt have washed out and the Hudson trade looks like a steal, even though he hasn’t produced to the level expected. But they’ve left the Braves strapped in the pitching department the last year or 2, as evidenced by all the retreads that have been brought in to fill gaps in the rotation and the bullpen.

The genius GM (and his many defenders) point to the team’s salary restraints, but he’s the one who traded all the young arms and had to bring in guys like Hampton & Hudson. No question, JS has been some savvy deals (Hudson, Renteria, Wickman), but he’s made just as many bonehead ones. Fortunately for him, the Braves outstanding farm system has consistently bailed him out, producing an unending stream of talent that kept the team at the top of the standings until last year.

Now he’s apparently about to dump Giles because of his relatively piddly salary, and as he did after the Boone trade, leave the team with next to nothing as a replacement. If the Braves are so bad off financially that they can’t afford to keep Giles at his salary, fans might want to re-think their support of the franchise and JS maybe should look elsewhere for employment or just retire after a once stellar career that has produced diminishing returns lately.

One final thing. For those of you pleading for a leadoff hitter, please note the only Braves team to win the World Series was the SLOWEST team they’ve put on the field since ‘91 and was without a legitimate “leadoff hitter”. Perish the thought that you might actually have someone who can hit the baseball batting first, as opposed to an Otis Nixon/Juan Pierre type.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

wow check this out

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06341/744246-63.stm

By TommyB

December 7, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

Hi Dave O’B… Am not caught up on this blog but have a question on your 12:26 entry.

You say that “other teams were drooling over” Soriano. That makes sense.

What I don’t get is why, if this is true, none were able to better an offer of HoRam straight up.

Do you have any inkling on any competitive offers for Soriano?

By KC

December 7, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

*I can’t believe I was brainwashed into believing that John Schuerholz led the Braves organization to 14 consecutive Division titles, and put this team in a position to compete for a World Series every single year for 14 years. I can’t *believe I was dumb enough to allow myself to be brainwashed into believing that! I feel so deceived… so used… so… hey, wait a minute! John Schuerholz did put this team in a position to compete for a World Series 14 consecutive years.

Whew… for a minute there, I thought I was a complete idiot for believing such a thing.**

By TommyB

December 7, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

PS… (to my last post).

My theory is that Obi Juan Schuerholz gave the M’s GM a dose of the old Jedi Mind Trick.

A wave of the hand… and a short “THIS is the left-handed starter you seek.” and it was all over.

By Chachi

December 7, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

I like Chalupas…

By Thrillhouse

December 7, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball, after the Millwood/Estrada trade, I’d trust JS with my life. Even though he was forced to dump a solid pitcher, he received an All-Star caliber catcher in return. Many scoffed at this trade at first (including me), but in the end a lot of people were pleasantly surprised.

By Chad

December 7, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

TommyB

From the reports circulating, it sounds like JS may have pulled a fast one on the Mariners by making it appear as though the LaRoche/Gonzalez deal was all but done, prompting the M’s to rush back to the table with Soriano/HoRam, at which point he rescinded LaRoche from the Pirates…

…no telling if it’s true (DOB?) but if so, doesn’t surprise me. JS has bent many a GM over in his day, and sounds like the M’s got it bad.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 7, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

matthew, journalist jimmy smith would like to agree with you but this journalist thinks if chipper were dealt then payroll would be reduced and some of these young infielders could remain in this organization. andy marte is gone. wilson betemit is gone. what of campbell and others? will they be gone, too, while chipper plays the position in support hose? yes, this journalist marveled at the streak chipper put together last season but jimmy smith could never see chipper on the field when this journalist attended games as a fan (not as a journalist). journalist got to see others play third but not chipper jones. that may be the case again in 2007 as the braves pay chipper $12 million. this journalist knows that chipper is a hot button on this blog - but the aches and pains have taken their toll (tole) on poor chipper and he is not the woman he once was. still, he is destined to play here until walter is ready to take over - and he may decide to become an announcer before it is all said and done. “uh, that was a uh, a uh, chopper to uh, walter …” now, that was not nice! this journalist has become mean after reading stinky blogs all the time. and now a riddle: if chipper caught a chopper and that chopper was only a two-hopper what difference would it make since chipper was on the bench when he caught the two-hopper chopper and pete orr was at third base? oh, the humanity! is there an american league team that needs chipper jones? (watch out journalist, here it comes)

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

*My theory is that Obi Juan Schuerholz gave the M’s GM a dose of the old Jedi Mind Trick.

A wave of the hand… and a short “THIS is the left-handed starter you seek.” and it was all over.*

That’s funny stuff right there…..

By TommyB

December 7, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Hey Grinch… Re: your 1-ish post about BC running Giles out as leadoff much of this year.

My question is this. If not Giles, then WHO?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Renteria had been tried at leadoff earlier in his career and it didn’t work.

That leaves, Chipper, Laroche, Andruw, Francouer, and McCann.

BTW, are you doing the Christmas party circuit this year? I believe the Cheetah has a longstanding need for Grinches.

By David

December 7, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

“One final thing. For those of you pleading for a leadoff hitter, please note the only Braves team to win the World Series was the SLOWEST team they’ve put on the field since ‘91 and was without a legitimate “leadoff hitter”. Perish the thought that you might actually have someone who can hit the baseball batting first, as opposed to an Otis Nixon/Juan Pierre type.”

Your mistake is in assuming that a leadoff hitter has to be fast. We are in a day and age where even the most casual fans understand an OBP machine is the most desired of table setters.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 7, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Wow, good find Billy(TB….) If Chad’s 4:26 p.m. explanation is accurate, no wonder the Pirates officials are p-ed off. They got played like a harmonica at a Neil Young Concert.

By Brave in Yankeeville

December 7, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

So, now I’m wondering who gets left off of the 25-man roster.

If we go with a 7-man bullpen, and we know Wickman, Soriano, McBride, Boyer, Cormier, and Villareal are in, who gets the last spot (Paronto, Yates, Devine, Reitsma, Stockman, Moylan, Sturtze, Lerew)?

With Prado starting at 2B and Langerhans in LF, the 5-man bench looks like Diaz, B. Pena, Aybar, Thorman, and either Orr or T. Pena. Right?

That means Kelly Johnson probably doesn’t make the team out of spring training, and that seven pitchers with major league experience are similarly out of luck.

By Billy (TBFKB)

December 7, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

.290 with 35 home runs and 121 RBI

who considers that an off year?

By bwash21

December 7, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

First time blogger but I read these things all time. DOB, I love em. If this deal is actually out there with the Angels and we are holding out for Scot Shields to be included….I can’t believe it even got that far. Any warm body in addition to Figgins and Kotchman would be a bonus. Figgins is 28, in his prime, can hit leadoff, steal 50-60 bases, career OBP of .345, and BA of .285. Plays 2B, 3B, SS, and OF and made only 2.225M last year. Dave Roberts just went for over 5M per year and isn’t close to the player Figgins is. And Kotchman is only 23, made only 340k last year. I don’t even care if he starts this year with us having Thorman already but Kotchman WILL have a better career than Thorman. Kotchman has BIG TIIME potential, with a career minor league BA of .327 already. His power is developing but he was slowed by some viral problem they called mono last year that kept him on the DL for the majority of the year. As for LaRoche, he had a nice year batting low in the order with alot of guys on base in front of him. I hate his blase’ attitude, his lack of hustle (I’ll never forgive him for jogging around the bases in NLCS, game 7 in extra innings and getting thrown out at home), his walking to 1B after fielding a groundball and the runner beating him to first because Laroche had his back to the runner and several others that weren’t as costly at the time. I want guys that will bust their a* everyday and play to win every inning. Giles is one of those guys, lest we forget he was one of the top 5 second baseman in all of baseball before hitting leadoff last yr., a spot he reluctantly hit in all year without complaining. I would take this lineup in a heartbeat:

Figgins Renteria or Giles Chipper Andruw McCann Franceour Giles or Renteria Thorman Pitcher

I absolutely don’t want J.Castillo (hit .253-268 the last 3 yrs) from Pittsburgh and don’t believe we would be interested in him- he can’t hit leadoff and we have a glut of young studs that start for us at 2B and hit 8th if we did trade Giles.

By PHATT

December 7, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

Who’s gonna lead off? That’s the biggest problem. If they don’t make that move for Chone Figgins, WOW!!! That guy would be PERFECT at the top of our lineup.

Or even Ryan Freel from the Reds, they need someone at the top of the lineup. Their experiment last year didn’t work, now back to a conventional leadoff hitter.

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

If you’d like to look at all salaries for last year and what salaries are listed right now for all players on roster(at last year’s level) click this link.[http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=atl]

To: Andrew

Are you serious? Let’s say you were Andruw and a year from now Atlanta offered you $15 million per year for five years and another team offered you $20 million for five years. Are you telling us you would walk away from $25 million dollars to play in Atlanta?

By JC FROM UT

December 7, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

I can’t/don’t believe this is the roster that we will be going with come opening day! JS has to do something else. DOB: is there any more talks of AL and LAA, or the Tampa rumors or anything. I personally would like the trade with the Angels. Although the deal for Baldelli is quit interesting as well. Who exactly was mentioned as going to Tampa?

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 7, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

On the trade - I’ll take DOB’s word this is a good/great deal for the Braves - he knows a hell of a lot more about all of this than me. As to Soriano being injury prone, I’d much rather give our own injury prone guy (HoRam) and pay him $2m, and watch him get injured, than paying J.D. Screw (an injury machine) $14 mil, knowing he’s going to miss at least 1/3 of the season or more. Besides, isn’t any pitcher one pitch away from getting hurt(the image of Drabecky’s arm breaking still gives me the willies). Who saw that one coming?

As far as the Seattle writer is concerned, who the hell really cares?

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Would the honorable journalist from Cordele, Uganda kindly reflect on the words of the Blog’s First Lady … when she says something, you can count on it, plain and simple! Not like some I know whose promises They take on the air of trade rumors … the Pony Express was slow, but at least one could on it depend.

They say it’s been snowing in Nashville … maybe in Nashville, Uganda … it’s a balmy 31 degrees and the sun is shining here! Like the late U.N. ambassador, I’m prepared to wait until it freezes over for that which I have been promised!

For those few who don’t know; I hate trades … plain and simple … but, Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez … goodness, that news is almost as good as hearing that Lew’s 20/200 is now 20/30 … almost!

Billy, I see you’ve reverted back to using to using the “K” … it was I who suggested you keep the “N” … and I still think it was kinda neat … ‘cause we all new that you knew the score, plain and simple!

I see from recent Blogs that you served in the military intelligence arena, as did I, long, long ago. It was always disturbing to me that while we struggled for weeks to uncover small bits of information, the bad guys had but to obtain a copy of the “Stars and Stripes” to get similiar stuff! You have to be mighty careful when telling folks of your intelligence connection with the Military … they’ll start calling you an “oxy” … reminds me that Mama once explained to my brother that I worked with the NSA folks … I found out just recently, at my niece’s wedding, that he misused that information to impress his friends; telling them that his big brother was a CIA operative.

Billy, my read on the Seattle links you provided is different than that of the Grinch … seemed to me like they wanted to hang the GM for making the deal … thought he got snookered, plain and simple! Sure, there are some questions regarding Soriano’s durability because of recent history … but, those seemed to be just wishful thinking on their part.

It didn’t sound to me like anyone was blaming David O’B for gaying the other deal … rather, that maybe he and JS were working together to snooker Bill Bavasi.

It’s the “Non-Tender” talk about Giles that has me befuddled … he’s already tender enough, about done … as a Brave, if you ask me. The truth is that Marcus is good folks, a quality second baseman … one in which most everyone would be interested … but that truth evidently ain’t so plain and simple. The next few days might just prove interesting.

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

Quote: mr baseball

The genius GM (and his many defenders) point to the team’s salary restraints, but he’s the one who traded all the young arms and had to bring in guys like Hampton & Hudson. No question, JS has been some savvy deals (Hudson, Renteria, Wickman), but he’s made just as many bonehead ones. Fortunately for him, the Braves outstanding farm system has consistently bailed him out, producing an unending stream of talent that kept the team at the top of the standings until last year.

THE GENIUS KEEPS WINNING. ISN’T THAT WHAT IT’S ALL ABOUT?

Now he’s apparently about to dump Giles because of his relatively piddly salary, and as he did after the Boone trade, leave the team with next to nothing as a replacement. If the Braves are so bad off financially that they can’t afford to keep Giles at his salary, fans might want to re-think their support of the franchise and JS maybe should look elsewhere for employment or just retire after a once stellar career that has produced diminishing returns lately.

GILES “PIDDLY SALARY” IS GOING TO BE IN THE $5-6 MILLION RANGE THIS YEAR. THE BRAVES BUDGET IS WHAT IT IS AND IF GILES CANNOT BE AFFORDED THEN WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST, THAT JS SIGN HIM AND THUMB HIS NOST AT TIME WARNER?

One final thing. For those of you pleading for a leadoff hitter, please note the only Braves team to win the World Series was the SLOWEST team they’ve put on the field since ‘91 and was without a legitimate “leadoff hitter”. Perish the thought that you might actually have someone who can hit the baseball batting first, as opposed to an Otis Nixon/Juan Pierre type

YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR FACTS. JUAN PIERRE HITS FOR AVERAGE. HIS CAREER BA IS .303 AND THE LAST SIX YEARS HE HAS ONLY BEEN BELOW 200 HITS TWICE, ONE YEAR AT 221. THAT MAY BE THE BEST IN BASEBALL. IT IS CERTAINLY IN THE TOP TEN. AND HE HAS 325 STEALS IN SIX YEARS.

By Nelson Hawkins

December 7, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Glad to hear the Soriano trade is finally done. Living in Portland, OR, I get to see nearly every Mariners game on the regional Fox Sports affiliate, and have always liked Soriano (and hoped he’d be on the Braves’ radar), so I’ll share my dimestore scouting report. As I glanced over the other posts, I didn’t see any mention of his splitter, which may be the devastating changeup he throws, perhaps a split/change hybrid like Hoffman or Gagne…anyway, it’s a good’n, a genuine plus major league out pitch, along with a good fastball and hard slider. I don’t think he uses his whole repertoire as a reliever, and he’s told the Mariners before that he’d like the chance to start; if the Braves can find suitable options in the bullpen after 2007, then I’d like to see him get that chance. His mound demeanor reminds me of Jose Contreras of the Chi Sox; I can’t think of an NL guy to compare him to. Regarding the Mariners fans who were glad to see him go because his arm was supposedly hanging by sinew: in my 5 years living out here I can tell you that local Mariners fans know less about baseball than anywhere else I’ve been in the country, and they are likely consoling themselves after having missed out on Manny Ramirez, Jason Schmidt, Luis Gonzalez, and a host of lesser names, and having merely acquired HoRam (they don’t quite understand what they are getting—if he can avoid the bad-luck injuries, and learn to pitch with the DH involved, I think his style could be more successful in the American League). Regardless, having that 8th-9th inning problem fixed and fixed d@mn good sure is nice for a change. A mix of Boyer, McBride, etc. should be able to fill out the ‘pen, but I’ve noticed that in all the quotes from various Braves sources, offcials, etc., only Bobby Cox has mentioned wanting Giles back, so I guess he’s done in ATL. San Diego no longer seems like a fit in a trade, but what about Seattle again? I wonder if the Braves didn’t try to attach a Giles rider to the HoRam trade, because the Mariners really ain’t got much going on at 2B or at the second spot in the order, and I think Giles would be forced to get back to a 40 doubles/15 HRs approach in Safeco Field—it’s built for gap hitters. Maybe they could go straight up for Jose Lopez, the M’s current 2B, who would be a good stopgap until Yunel Escobar is ready. The M’s are in a mode to spend money, so acquiring Giles’ asking price shouldn’t be a problem, and it would give them at least one legitimate name acquired thus far (the Braves may not do business that way, but some clubs need to—the M’s have been spinning their wheels for over a decade now, winning nothing).

By Lew

December 7, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

HillyBilly-Amen, Brother. We’re just a couple of Relics, aren’t we?

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

Bwash, you had my interest with strong stuff that I agree with on Kotchman, Figgins, etc. Then you got to bashing LaRoche and brought up the “jogging around bases” in Game 7 and completely lost me. Dude, you can believe he was sick and throwing up or not … well, I had half the team tell me that in addition to Cox. They saw him hurling in the damn trash cash during the game.

But the Braves and LaRoche still liked him in the game for his defense and bat (he hit a grand slam earlier in the game, but I know that’s not going to matter to you) over Thorman or any other option at that point.

Take a look at the stats I posted about LaRoche, the guys he compared with in so many areas, and especially his team-best second half at the plate. You dismiss it all, huh, because of his “blase” attitude and fact he doesn’t scrap like Giles on the field? Sorry, I disagree. Marcus had a bad year, scrappy or not. And he missed a lot of games with a lot of nagging injuries. And if you give a guy a pass on a season because he had to bat leadoff … well, OK. Your prerogative. But the Braves and a lot of other teams don’t view LaRoche with jaundiced eyes, like you apparently do….

Teams make baseball decisions based on a players’ performance, along with character (let me just tell you, LaRoche has no detractors in the clubhouse, more than can be said for some others). He’s an exceptional defensive player who hit 32 homers and drove in 90 from low in the batting order in his SECOND full season in the majors (was hurt much of his rookie year, remembe; separated shoulder)….

Brave in Yankeeville, you wrote: “If we go with a 7-man bullpen, and we know Wickman, Soriano, McBride, Boyer, Cormier, and Villareal are in, who gets the last spot (Paronto, Yates, Devine, Reitsma, Stockman, Moylan, Sturtze, Lerew)?”

First off, you’re assuming Boyer will be healthy, which he should be. You’re assuming Cormier makes the ‘pen, which is probably not a good assumption. Could be traded, could be a starter for Braves or someone else, you just don’t know.

Villarreal could end up beating out Davies for fifth-starter job. Reitsma could be non-tendered or DL’d, who knows?

So many things can happen, as we saw last year when Foster and Boyer were hurt even before spring games began at Dark Star.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

Big Daddy, weighing in STRONG. Good post, bruh.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

TommyB, I guarantee the Cheetah girls love the green guy. While my heart may be two sizes too small…:-)

Jimmy Smith, I’m actually in agreement; in a perfect world we could afford to pay Chipper 12 mil to step off the DL occasionally and tip his cap to the crowd, but…

Bob, NSA, CIA, what’s the difference? You guys all love each other and working together, right?

FBG, have I told you lately that I love you? Yes, I like walnuts on my red velvet cake. :-)

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

Sorry, I said over Thorman or any other option. Thor wasn’t even on the playoff roster, was he? My bad. But you get my point, hopefully….

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

You know I’ve been here TOO LONG when I start to think of the Houston marathon Game 7 as being last year instead of two years ago. Now I remember, Braves didn’t make the postseason last year. And Julio platooned with LaRoche … it’s all coming back now. The horror. The horror…

By GermanBravesFan

December 7, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Big Daddy: Remember what happened last time Andruw’s contract was up? He walked into JS’s office with his dad and negotiated his own contract! I am sure he left a lot of money on the table then, too! Unfortunately, he promised Scott Boras to negotiate for him next fall which will, unfortunately, make it too expensive for the Braves to keep him.

How much money is Mike Hampton supposed to make in 2008?? What about Hudson? Smoltz’s contract will be up and with today’s market, who says the Braves will be able to keep him? How much is Renteria going to make after next season? What about Chipper? I believe the worst is yet to come!

It’s time for one million loyal Braves fans to donate $20 each per year to keep Andruw… j/k!

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this

Nice 5:21 post, David O’B!

By futurebravesgm2413

December 7, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

To me assuming everyone is healthy on opening day (since Sturtze will not be healthy by then) here is who will be guaranteed a spot in the pen: 1. Wickman 2. Soriano 3. Yates 4. McBride 5. Boyer thats it. As Mr. O’Brien said, we could use Villerreal or Cormier as a starter. If Davies is in the 5th slot and Villerreal isn’t dealt he’ll have a spot. Internal options for spots on the roster are Paronto, Stockman, and Devine. I’m sure at least 2 pitchers will be brought in, at least on minor league deals with invites to ST to compete for jobs in the pen and possibily the 5th spot. Does anyone know if Shane Reynolds is avaliable?

By Jamie in Richmond

December 7, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

BWASH:

I’m with you bro. I get tired of the Laroche lovefest as well. I’d have been fine with moving him, and am disappointed they have seemingly chosen not to. Of course, he’s probably confused about what club he’s on anyway, but…

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

JC from UT, you write: “I can’t/don’t believe this is the roster that we will be going with come opening day! JS has to do something else. DOB: is there any more talks of AL and LAA, or the Tampa rumors or anything. I personally would like the trade with the Angels. Although the deal for Baldelli is quit interesting as well. Who exactly was mentioned as going to Tampa?”

Chuck James, and it was bogus. Completely.

Regarding your post, I guess I’m having a hard time geting so worked up about the roster. I mean, it’s the same one, basically, that scored a lot of runs last year, only they have Bob Wickman and Soriano in the ‘pen now, and Hampton in the rotation, and perhaps Boyer doing what they hoped he’d do last year. Oh, and Andruw getting in his best shape in years, supposedly, and playing for a huge contract in his walk year….

As of right now, they still have the same infield, same outfield, same catcher. And a lot of those guys are entering their third season (second full season) and should be able to produce more (though it’ll be tough for McCann to top his performance).

But what’s so troubling to you? And I do think they will make another move or two, get a pinch-hitter, maybe have to replace Giles, perhaps with a prospect. But even if the offense is a bit less potent, with a pitching staft that looks that much stronger, I don’t think you should be so troubled.

By berigan

December 7, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

Lew, you keep mentioning Tom Verducci’s SI.Com article, saying how Olsen and Sanchez who were overused last year. Well, I read it, it is interesting, but I ain’t convinced. One player isn’t just like another. And it isn’t like those guys had to make pressure pitches in the playoffs, like the 2 studs on the tigers staff that were mentioned as well. Bob Feller pitched almost 500 innings as a Teenager! Still managed to get 266 wins, even after serving in WW2. Tom Glavine pitched 50 innings for the braves in 1988(don’t know how many inning in the minors before that) Then 195 innings in 1989 as a 22 year old. He pitched 900 innings by the age of 25. Still hasn’t gone on the disabled list 15+ years later. Greg Maddux?? Let’s see, he pitched 155 inning for Chicago at the age of 21, then 249 the next year!!! In fact, he pitched 200 or more innings for 14 straight years(Even thru the strike year of 1994!!!) I know, soft tossers, freaks o’ nature. But I am not writting off the Marlins. They flat out have better starting pitching than we do. Their 2nd baseman, ss, 3rd baseman, and left fielder are better than ours. We’re just lucky their fans are tired of being yanked around, and refuse to support the team anymore. If they had any money to play around with, they would be much more of a threat than the Mets. Still, if they could trade Dontrelle for a say….everyone’s favorite, Crawford??? I’d be scared….

By bho

December 7, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Why not trade for figgins and kotchman, put thorman or kotchman at first, put figgins in left keep giles. that keeps your solid middle. then you will have this lineup. figgins giles jones jones renteria mccan francouer kotchman/thorman

now thats a pretty darn good lineup if you ask me. we could make a run with that offense!

By futurebravesgm2413

December 7, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, what about the bench for next season? I remember reading that the Braves will go with Brayan Pena to back up McCann. Plus with Ward bolting we will most likely have Thorman on the bench as well. Orr did great IMO the last month or two of the season. And we know Aybar will be on the roster. Lets say Prado gets the 2nd base job (lets hoping for no. His winter ball stats are horrid, no extra base hit all winter?!?!). So if Orr and Aybar are the utility infielders does that worry the Braves because they don’t have someone with consistant experience at SS? Doesnt make sense to me for the Braves to say Prado would then backup at SS if Renteria is hurt and not consider batting Aybar leadoff and playing at 2nd base and having him shift to 3b to back up Chipper. Yes, I remember that we have Pena but I can’t imagine Aybar, Pena Jr. and Orr on the roster unless Prado is the odd man out and Aybar gets the 2b job. Here’s hoping for Kelly Johnson and Diaz at LF and Aybar at 2b

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

TommyB, your 4:16 post … brought a smile to the face. hilarious.

Folks, several of you are reading between the lines and coming up with the same theory I’ve discussed with a few writers here. And I really believe it, though can’t write it in a straight news story, really.

Anyway, I do believe the Braves had the LaRoche/Gonzalez offer on the table, hemmed and hawed a bit while they waited until Seattle would agree to that better deal for much lesser cost (love Horacio, but him or LaRoche is a no-brainer), then pulled the trigger on the Mariners deal soon as they were sure dude was healthy, and yanked that baby off the Pirates’ table (with some off-the-record comments by officials other than Schuerholz to certain reporters _ not this one _ about Pittsburgh dragging its feet, etc. Those comments didn’t sit well with Pirates, and knowing Dave Littlefield from back in Marlins days, I don’t think he’d lie when he said Pirates weren’t dragging their feet and Braves were.)

But hey, you know what? It’s business, boys. Cutthroat at times. You’re in it to win, and when you have an $80 mill payroll you better not make mistakes and you’d better be able to pull off some splendid trades. And I believe this one qualifies from the Braves’ perspective.

Of course, if Horacio just reverts to the career path we all envisioned after his 12-4 rookie year, say he wins 15 games with a 4.00 ERA, then all of a sudden he’s a $12 mill starter (or more) in this market and it could be a great trade for both teams.

It’s a great game, isn’t it?

By bwash21

December 7, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the reply. I feel honored to have heard from you within minutes of my first career post:-) I have heard that about LaRoche, that he was throwing up that game and I know he hit a GS that game, however, even if your sick, you either don’t play the game or if you do, and a ball is hit off the wall in Gm7 and you can go to the WS, I would be running full bore and I know that he wasn’t. That’s what still bothers me. I don’t doubt for a second that LaRoche is a good character guy and well respected in the clubhouse. I did read your stats where he ranks in the top 5 in NL in the 2nd half and his trade value is much higher because of it. My gut is that last year was an abberation for LaRoche, even setting aside my obvious distaste for the way he plays the game in my view. I know chemistry is extremely important within any clubhouse (even more important within the Braves organization) because your closer to it you may have insight that we don’t have. Regardless, I love LaRoche as a sell high candidate and I’d like to keep Giles because his value is much lower than it would’ve been a yr or two ago. At 5-6M, he still seems like a decent value to me with these escalating salaries. If Gil Meche can get 11M a year for at least 4 yrs from a small market non contender!!!…..ugh…what’s happening out there? Unbelievable.

By brian

December 7, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

If the Braves are not going to get anything of value for Giles, is there any chance the Braves may put Edgar on the block. With the Red Sox paying $3 million of his salary, he is a steal at $6 million/year. The Braves could insert Yunel Escobar at short stop (with Pena a late inning defensive replacement if he makes the 25 man roster). Giles could then move to 2B this year where his production should increase and the Braves then could move him as well at the trade deadline in July or next offseason and get better value for him. By then it will be clear if the Braves are in it or not, and Prado will be more seasoned to take over (or Aybar if Chipper stays healthy).

It would open up more trade avenue with the Angels for LaRoche if they wanted - Figgins and Erik Aybar (and Kotchman?). Figgins bats leadoff and plays in LF (with Diaz getting some ABs).

I know it is just a rumor mill but look at what the Dodgers are supposedly offering Toronto for Wells who has only one year on his contract. If that was offered for Andruw, I would have to listen if I were JS.

And why should the Dodgers be mad at Boras in regards to JD Drew? He did them a big favor. They overpaid for Drew did not put up huge stats for the Dodgers. Let the Red Sox overpay Drew to sit on the DL. Losing Drew and that $13 million will make it much easier to go after the $20 million OF like Wells or AJ.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

I’d be a heckuva lot more comfortable with the Vulture in the fifth spot than Davies; I’ll call JS and tell him so now. Give Parantoe a bullpen spot and send Davies to AAA. Although it may hurt his confidence level to get kicked around there; make it AA.

By brent

December 7, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

DOB,

You’ve also been here way too long when you forget that the LaRoche game was a game 4, and not a game 7.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I’m not tellin’ no secrets, even if I’m tortured … ‘cept to say that melted marshmellows on toasted Grahams is good … almost as good as souse & vinegar on saltines!

Well maybe just one secret, … had Jackie not sent Jack’s suit to the cleaners, things might have been different in Cuba … it contained a note he wrote, reminding himself to provide air support for the Bay of Pigs.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

FutureBravesGM, my head’s spinning from your post.

Lot of this will play out this spring. They’ll give a lot of guys a shot (including maybe a late, cheap signee), or make a trade in spring training if all their pitchers are healthy. Maybe Kelly has a big spring and looks good in the infield (hey, I said maybe).

Just don’t know what’ll happen, and no sense trying to pin it all down now. I see Thorman, Aybar on team for sure, but won’t know more till we see what happens with Giles. Escobar could back up short and second if he has a great spring, who knows?

I do know one thing: B Pena’s the backup catcher. That I know.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

Brian, I agree. Giles is a slightly better player than Edgar (IMO), certainly no worse, younger, about a million bucks cheaper and Edgar would give us much more in return than Giles. It’s perfectly obvious to me, but then I don’t run the team.

By Lew

December 7, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this

Berigan-Did you see where Verducci says he’s been following this trend for over ten years and that it included such examples as Millwood and Dontrelle? Well, believe it or not, time will tell. I still am of the opinion that the Marlins won’t put up last year’s numbers, any more than the Braves will have another 6-23 month in the middle of the season and miss all of those days on the DL. Too many young pitchers have been overused and paid the price. Ask the Rays what they think of Kazmir’s problems. One good thing, though, if it is true, Chuck James actually pitched LESS innings last year than in 05. He should be good to continue his development.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Andrew, regarding Andruw. Honestly, I don’t think it’s as much a done deal as most believe that he’s gone after this year. I think it’s most likely, but I think there’s a decent chance Braves could persuade him to stay, especially if he thinks Bobby will be around at least a couple more seasons after 2007 and if Liberty Media or someone else decides that hey, you know, long as we’re gonna own the Braves we might as well own a kick&$# team, so let’s make it a $100 mill payroll because what’s $20 mill more among billionaires? Braves could make a MUCH better offer to him if they had extra $20 mill in budget.

If it stays at $80, NO WAY they can win by paying Andruw more than $15 mill. Or at least highly unlikely. That’d be more of the same _ dysfunctional payroll.

By beachcomber

December 7, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

DOB - Thanks for your mention of Blaine Boyer in your last (or next to last post). All this talk about an eighth innning man had me worried that the Braves had written off Boyer. When healthy, he was quite good. I’ve got to believe, if healthy, he would have stepped into the 8th inning job or even the closer’s role during all our troubles last year. Imagine a healthy Boyer in the seventh!!

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

Alright, I’m going to get something to eat and stop by Virgin Records, the only place worth shopping at the Evil Empire.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 7, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

Hey everyone…

Glad you set us all straight, mr baseball. It’s very obvious that you knew beforehand that the Klesko/Boone deal was gonna be a lemon. I’m not sure why you’re not making a ton of money in Vegas right now.

Couple of chinks in the armor of your argument, though.

First, JS built very good teams in Kansas City prior to making the move to Atlanta. I mean, he DID win the 1985 World Series with Brett and Saberhagen and Dick Howser, and the Royals were competing in the AL West up until 1990, and I guess it was just dumb luck that the franchise fell off the map after that, right?

You missed a few key acquisitions other than what you mentioned. Belliard, Sid Bream, Alejandro Pena, Berenguer, Nixon…

Let’s take a look at the ‘97 trade that you’ve panned. Justice and Grissom to the Tribe for Lofton and Alan Embree. I have to admit that I hated that we traded Marquis Grissom away. Lofton did not want to be in Atlanta and it showed. However, we know NOW that Lofton was not Braves material and at the time, he was one of the premier leadoff hitters and CFs in the game. Oh, one more thing. Justice WAS NOT a regular starter in the OF in 1996, he was a bench player for us at that point. A bench player that saw action in only 40 games I might add.

Look, you don’t like JS, it’s obvious. I think the man has done a great job with what he has. You say I’m brainwashed, I say you are.

Problem is… If you look at the entire history of all of the deals JS has done, most of them have helped the team rather than hurt. If you’re gonna make deals, and if you are going to want GMs to continue to be willing to deal with you in the future, you have to give up something of value to get what you need. I am not sure what part of that you and many other JS bashers simply don’t understand. But humor me. Who would you rather see at GM? Who do you think will do as good or better than JS using the constraints of what he has?

By RoswellHornet

December 7, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

John Schuerholz has finally realised that Santa Claus is not going to drop a bullpen down the chimney, he actually has to go out and pay for one, preferably not a cheap one that falls apart after a few months. Stocking stuffers like Tanyon Sturtze will not suffice.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

Brent, good point on Game 4, not 7. Hey, been two years and a lot of ‘ball since then.

By bwash21

December 7, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

I doubt it will be this year, but I’d be willing to bet that Casey Kotchman will end up being a Mark Grace type with a little more power 20-25+ per yr. Does everyone really think that LaRoche can improve on his 32 HR’s or even consistently hit 30? Even if he did, we be getting someone comparable with what I think will be better average. And for this year, if we had a stud leadoff guy in Figgins, how risky would it really be to plug in Thorman and take his .240 on the low end BA, and perhaps an upside of .270 with likely 22 HR’s or more. If Kotchman isn’t ready, we can always find a serviceable RH platoon first baseman. We’ve done that for years and we need to improve the bench anyway so it shouldn’t be that hard. And lastly, about Giles again. I just don’t want to give him away if he’s only going to make 2-2.5M more than this year. He’d be a great candidate for comeback player of the year and then trade him after you’ve given some of these other studs in the minors another year of seasoning. It’s not all about LaRoche bashing though. I really want to see Figgins leading off and spelling everyone in the lineup as he moves all over the field and plays everyday.

By krath

December 7, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Ok guys….. hope you can take a little ribbing…. but I keep seeing LaRoche’s performance in Game 7 referred to. The Braves haven’t been in a series that consisted of 7 games in a few years, much less since LaRoche arrived. You have to get out of the Division series before you get to a 7 game series. (It was actually game 4 and they had to win to take it back to Atlanta for game 5) lol

By DonCoburleone

December 7, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

Yeah, DOB, HoRam was the best starting pitcher being offered for Soriano??? I find that kind of hard to believe…

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Bob, good to see you back, my friend. It’s been somewhat dull having no one with whom to exchange the odd philosophical musing and occasional obscure Shakespearean reference (“Billy Shakes” we called him at the old ballyard). Though I must admit DOB was stripped of his masquerade as a blue-collar ink-stained wretch recently when he posted some of his past reading material (oh, the Noah Chomsky!). But somehow I don’t think a little metaphysical dialogue with him would have been quite the same :-).

Anyway, good to see your name, bubba, I look forward to many cogent conversations, i.e., any that do not include Chone Figgins’ name as an offensive savior, LOL!

By Michael A.

December 7, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this

This is a great blog, and I respect DOB, but this seems like the fourth time in the last five years now that I’ve heard the rumor that Andruw is getting in shape and every spring he kind of looks the same as he did when I saw him the previous fall.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Andruw, but I’m not buying the rumor about how he is getting into great shape (even in his walk year) until I see it with my own eyes.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Bob, good point about the Bay of Pigs. Air support would’ve prevented them from becoming sousemeat. :-) As for your capacity for torture, remember you guys gotta play West Virginia in a few weeks. Of course, Va. Tech won’t exactly be a pushover for us, either.

By David

December 7, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Heh, the last time I was at the Louvre, all I kept thinking when I shopped at the mall in that complex was: “Thank God there’s a Virgin Records.”

Then, I stumbled upon a dead body in the museum that had been defiled by strange symbols and…well, it got weird. But the French chick I met was hot. She had a real Amelie thing happening.

By 10 badman

December 7, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Woderful job on Soriano, this guy is a stud. As long as the top 3 starters can be reliable, with Wickman, Villareal, and now Soriano, there is no way the bullpen will blow the twenty-something plus saves as they did last year. If only 80% had been converted that would have given the Braves the division, Smoltz twenty wins, and possibly a Cy Young.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 7, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this

One last point and I’m done. You’re bringing up the Sheffield trade as an example of a bad trade?

The next two years, Jordan hit 23 HRS, 108 RBI and hit for .285 and .299. Sheffield hit 64 HRs, 216 RBIs and hit for .307 and .330.

By bwash21

December 7, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

I take back my gm 7 comment - 18 innings of baseball living and dying on every pitch made it feel like a gm 7 to me. I forgot it was coming back to Atlanta for gm 5 - call it selective memory - because now I’ve just remember that I had tickets for gm 5 here, Smoltz was supposed to be on the mound, and I had to wait until January to get my playoff tickets refunded for the upteenth year in a row!!! Ah, the horror.

By Daveintheadirondacks

December 7, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

DOB: Try this on. Sign Giles (if possible for $4m/1year. The bat him third and have Chipper lead off. There have been lots of power hitter leading off over the years and, most importantly, he has a GREAT OBP every year. I think he would score 130-140 runs a year if he could get in 140+ games. I know he’d lose some homer rbi’s but everything else works in my mind, especially with all the power we have through the line-up.

By Braves20

December 7, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Greg in TN - Dave Justice was not a bench player (ala Pete Orr, Todd Pratt whatever). He was injured most of ‘96. Had he not been - there would be back to back W.S. flags hanging at the Ted

By Big Daddy

December 7, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

I well remember LaRoche trotting around the bases and what it cost the Braves. What I didn’t know was he was tossing his cookies when he did that.

And I remember him screwing up that play at first when he didn’t tag his man. And then we were told he was not taking his Ritalin. I don’t know if that is true or not but I DO KNOW he didn’t dog it anymore after those two incidents. And I know Cox forgave him and Cox doesn’t forgive such things without good cause.

I also remember him hitting 30 big ones and driving in 90. He could have easily put 100+ across had Bobby let him play all season or if he has been batting fifth or sixth all year.

The man is unorthodox, his swing looks horrible, he will strike out once every five or six at bats (as does Andruw and Francoeur) and he will hit about .300 and drive in 110-120 runs and hit 35-40 homers in 2007. And if Bobby bats him fifth or sixth he will drive in more than that.

Think of this, when Bobby has the task of deciding who to bat 5, 6 and 7 when all are capable of driving in 100+ in 2007 things can’t be all bad. That is McCann, Francoeur and LaRoche. How many teams would just love to have that problem? Any one of them will drive in well over 100 runs if he bats 4th or 5th.

One parting thought. Andruw’s 125+ RBI’s will not be missed very much in 2008 for the Braves will have three or four who can slide into that no. 4 slot. We will all miss his genius in CF. Most of us will never again see anything to match what he can do in that outfield. I’ve been a witness to some really great ones and I’ve never seen his equal. If he is not injured we are looking at as sure a thing as I can imagine for the Hall of Fame.

I see the Braves as a real solid team in 2007 even if they don’t make another deal and even if JS has to cut Giles. I hate to see it but that is a possibility.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

Michael A., I beg to differ; ‘Druw usually looks a little fatter each Spring, not the same.

Scoots, I’m glad you’ve finally found someone intelligent enough to pull you up out of our low-brow, intellectually bereft quagmire. And here I had just finished drawing a picture in the mud with a stick of a happy face (meant to represent Chone Figgins). I was going to jump up and down “Quest for Fire” style, point at my mud-scratching and chant “Ugh, ugh, OCK!” That loosely translates to “He should lead-off next year.” Now it’s all ruined because of Bob. :-)

By KC

December 7, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

I say NO WAY do we cut Giles loose for nothing or next to nothing. He had an off-year, but this guy is an all-star 2nd baseman, let’s not forget.

If there’s not a decent offer on the table for him… I say keep him… for God’s sake, bat him 2nd where he’s comfortable, and by the trading deadline, they’ll have some serious offers on the table for Giled down the stretch.

Again, BAT GILES 2nd!!! Let Renteria bat leadoff, or at the bottom of the order. Personally, I don’t see that Renteria’s any better of an offensive option than Giles was hitting in the 2-spot. Even this season, when they batted him there for a short period of time, he tore the cover off the ball.

Bat him 2nd, get his trade value up (substantially), and then trade him.

By Billy (TBF?B)

December 7, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

Well got back from a job interview that was’nt really a job interview. I hate when I am misled.

Anyhow, it appears the blog has finally reverted back pre-winter meetings banter. Altough I did enjoy reading about the next hot rumor, it quickly got old with Rocco and Chone leading the way. Time for the next debate…we’ve worn out C. Crawford, T. Hudson, B. Bonds, R. Baddeli, B. Cox Managerial abilities and much, much more. Mabey I missed it so forgive me, whats going to happen to Ken Ray..as I dont think there will be room on this team for him.

By Greg in TN (Appalachian American)

December 7, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Braves20 - Hey, good point there. I forgot about the bad shoulder he had, so I stand corrected there.

By KC

December 7, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

“KC said he was good in 9 of 11 starts excluding 5 starts surrounding DL trips”

Alright TennPaul, ya little smart @ss! LOL!

If you’re gonna quote it, at least get it right. I looked at Horacio’s season and excluded only the two starts he made in which he was already injured, but tried to pitch through it. Those were the two games in which he ultimately came out early, and headed straight to the DL. That’s it. I excluded 2 starts in which it was a verifiable fact that he was pitching injured. Sound reasonable enough?

Between DL starts, Horacio Ramirez made 12 starts. In those 12 healthy starts, he went 5-4 with a 3.89 ERA. In 9 out of those 12 starts, he was lights out (5-1, with a 1.69 ERA). The other three were very, very rough… but again, despite those rough starts, he still did a very respectable job overall when he was healthy this season, and showed that he still has the potential to an excellent starter for a long time, IF… (and here’s the famous caveat with HoRam) he can stay healthy.

I get harassed here all the time for my support of HoRam, but you watch… if he’s healthy this season, Seattle’s gonna be damn glad they made that trade. If I turn out to be wrong, I will grovel in front of all of you and ask your forgiveness for being stupid. But if I’m right, I’m going to dish back out all the $#@^$# I’ve been taking here for defending this guy. Just warning you! =)

By Carroll

December 7, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

DOB: if JS and the Braves did in fact pull one over on the Bucs, it would only be payback for the Barry Bonds fiasco back in 1992, which JS exposed in his book. Although I do think the Braves made a mistake in not consumating this deal. First basemen come and go but Gonzo is a one in a million reliever.

By Billy (TBF?B)

December 7, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

Oh the K. Ray thing was while I was on sabatical down in MS.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this

Billy, Ken Ray departed the team shortly after the season ended (someone, I forget who, claimed him off waivers).

KC, AMEN, brother! That 6:41 post almost makes me forget you’re a Hudophile. :-) Really, though; the few times last year they batted Giles second he absolutely tore it up. The guy’s just a #2 hitter, pure and simple. I guarantee whoever bats him in that spot next year (I hope it’s us) will get all-star type production.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 7, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

this journalist has it on good authority that andruw is getting into good shape for next season. andruw has switched from hostess cupcakes (made in the nawth) to little debbie products made here in the south. little debbie products are forgiving and some say they are slimming. andruw favors the oatmeal creme pie. now, baseball … how many “p” players will return in 2007? notice that most “p” players remain with the organization except pratt.

By GermanBravesFan

December 7, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

Carroll… did you seriously consider Barry Bonds not going to the Braves in 1992 a “fiasco”? Would you want to have to deal with everything Bonds stands for now? I sure hope not!

Giles: how many more times will DOB have to write that it’s a payroll decision: Giles will make more than Laroche next year, so let it go! Hopefully, the Braves can get SOMETHING for him…

I like the team so far! Lead-off hitters are overrated - how many times do they lead off anyways?

By DonCoburleone

December 7, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Tanyon Sturtz is gonna dominate this year!!!

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

Grinch, you injure me, sir! I should not have implied (if I did) that no one else on the blog was CAPABLE of ethereal dialogue, that would be quite untrue, LOL. It’s just that ole Bob and I are somewhat kindred spirits, and share an affinity for discussing, well, severely non-baseball topics. On the other hand, I’d rather discuss the merits of single- and double-blended with YOU anytime, bruh! :-)

By JC FROM UT

December 7, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

DOB: Was there any real interest in Hudson? If so do you think any of the talks would heat up later? COnsidering the “salary cap” with which JS has to work with I think it would be smart to some how get rid of that salary and use the money to buy McCann and/or Francoues out of their arbitration years. I would think that they both would be accepting since they are local guys. I nknow eveyone is upset about the “salary cap” but this way it can keep the team young and hungry.

By Got Concerns

December 7, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

DOB - First of all you know much more about baseball and the Braves players than I do. However, I got to tell you, I am not impressed at this point about the move(s) so far.

It seems to me all we have done is replace Baez with Soriano. Granted, Soriano may be a step up or even a big step up, but this is/was a .500 team we are talking about.

In my view, the Braves have needs that remain unsolved. A starting pitcher (I don’t see relying on Davies, Cormier, or Villareal for the fifth slot, especially Davies, who has been dreadful even when healthy), a lead off guy with speed to pressure the opposing team regarding speed on the bases, a consistent left fielder who can play better than average defense and hit over .250), another reliever (I just don’t buy that the rag tag bunch we had last year, save Wickman, is going to get significantly better), some remedy (through player transactions) to the high strike out ratio bunch that we have, and now, a left handed pinch hitter with pop since we lost Ward.

Going back to last year, the team built its grave in June. Having looked and many of the 20 +/- losses in June, Braves pitching was, in fact, dreadful, but the team also posted very weak offensive numbers and lost a number of lower scoring games. I agree the offense is likely to be explosive, but without the consistent force in left field and a good, speedy lead off hitter, I am concerned that the offense will go in caves like it is prone to do. I know Chipper’s full time presence will be a positive factor, but I do not believe we get 140 games from him. In addition, even after we acquired Wickman and Baez in late July, we were in essence a .500 team for the last two months.

I understand the budgetary constraints (although, based on prior personal knowledge, I strongly believe Time Warner is likely p** away millions and millions of dollars unwisely in other areas of the conglomerate) but I was hoping that JS would move a big player or players and free some payroll, even at the expense of not receiving “market value” back. It seems that the Braves are presently confounded in most every way and unable to address the needs.

It seems to me, as of right now, we are looking at another mediocre season with the Andruw and TW/Liberty decisions looming which will shape 2008.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 7, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

scoots, do you mean that journalist bob talks better toes? better pie? oh, the humanity! better biscuits than scalp’em? better lawnmowers than carolina lady? better stats than hk? oh, the humanity! better bobbycox than robert? journalist bob will get the big-head and be difficult to deal with now. true, journalist bob does talk sousemeat better than most.

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I had been reading the various posts and noticed how the vernacular was spiraling downward - brother to bro to bruh - and thought “Much more and they’ll be conversing in grunts again.”

Then read your post: “point at my mud-scratching and chant “Ugh, ugh, OCK!” Cracked! me! up!!! :-)))))

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 7, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

Okay, this Giles thing could get very ugly. I can’t see non-tendering him and getting nothing for him. That just sounds silly. I have an equally harder time believing nobody wants this guy. Even with an off year Giles had a heck of a second half. In his defense he was hurt most of the year not to mention that he hated hitting in the leadoff spot. Letting him just go would not be right. This guy has given his heart and soul to this orginization and that would not be the way to treat him. The way I see it the Braves have two options. One, they offer him arbitration and hope they can find a deal. Or, two, they keep him and just stay up against it as far as the salary cap goes. I still say JS should offer Giles to the Red Sox for something. Getting Crisp would defeat the purpose so maybe get some pitching (Hansen and Van Buren) and let them season in the minors.

I do have another solution which probably won’t be very popular. The Braves could offer Giles a contract of let’s say three years at $17 mil with player options after the first and second years. The first year would be a salary of $4 mil. Giles then could opt out after 2007 or take $6 mil for 2008. Same thing at the end of that season. He could opt out or take the remaining $7 mil. With this kind of deal Giles would give a bit of relief to this year’s payroll along with another solution that I will discuss in a minute. If he decides to take the player option next year then fine. He may feel that he could get more in free agency and opt out. If he gets back to being the Giles we all know then he very well could command $8, $9, or $10 mil on the market next season considering what has taken place this year. The Braves could give him a player option after 2007 but a team option after 2008 in case they want to protect themselves. The guy is only 28. He isn’t washed up.

Now, here is the second part of this plan. Keep Giles and trade Renteria. I know that Renteria is dirt cheap at $6 mil (actually $9 mil but the Sox are paying the other $3 mil), but Renteria would bring back a much better return than Giles since he proved last year that he is still near the top of his game. If it was known that Renteria was available the suitors would line up. The Astros could be a very good option. If Taveras and Buckholtz don’t go the White Sox, the Braves could offer Renteria. The Devil Rays I believe would consider a deal. The Tigers would be all over it. The deal I thought up would be a three way with the Red Sox and Angles.

The players involved would be: Figgins, Orlando Cabrerra, Renteria, Langerhans, Crisp, and Hansen. Basically, Renteria and Crisp would go the Angels. The Sox would get Cabrerra (whom they have indicated they would like back) and Langerhans. The Braves would get (Craig) Hansen and Figgins.

I can hear the screaming now. Hear me out. The reason behind keeping Giles over Renteria is two fold. One, Giles is younger. Two, Renteria would be easier to move and would bring more in return. With Figgins and Hansen coming the Braves could put Figgins at SS and solve their leadoff problem. Not to mention it provides an easy transition for Giles back into the #2 hole where he is comfortable and would rake. (Remember how for those two weeks back in August he hit the cover off the ball when Aybar was leading off.)Hansen would give the Braves another young pitcher that could compete for the major league roster or be sent down to the minors for seasoning. This would allow Escobar and Prado to get a bit more seasoning whether it be in Richmond or on the bench with the Braves. In the end the Braves would only give up Langerhans (whom is a #5 OF at this point) and Renteria. Yes, Renteria would be a loss but Giles was just as productive as Renteria in the #2 when he was there and Lord knows that Figgins would be a hell of a lot more productive in the leadoff spot then Giles was.

Also, with that contract to Giles the Braves would have the flexibility to pay him in 2008 and 2009 (if necessary) without having to feel so much strain. Especially if the payroll doesn’t increase.

I’m prepared to be called an idiot but I really think this could be a good deal. Also, keep in mind that Figgins is 28 just like Giles. In three years, those two will be 31 but Renteria will be 34. I just think that letting Giles go without nothing is a mistake from the team perspective and its a bit on the shady side from the personal perspective. Giles deserves more than that and the guy can still play. He was foreced to do something he really didn’t like and it was obvious to anyone who had sense that he was uncomfortable.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Thanks Scoots! It’s good to be back, plain and simple! I can understand, do empathize, and will try not to dissapoint. Still, you gotta love the Grinch, big yellows and all … if that “lowbrow” doesn’t behave, emails will go to his Mama!

Billy, there are a lot of questionmarks on this Blog … you’re not one of them!

Hot tub time!

Later …

By bwash21

December 7, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen this leadoff hitters are overrated thing far too many times. Speed is great to have at the top and OBP is even more important but Chipper batting first is not the point of a leadoff man. We scored alot of runs because everyone had a good to great year except for Giles. If Furcal had been in there our offense would’ve been that much better. There were 8 playoff teams this year. You try to tell me that having a productive leadoff hitter is overrated.. Mets - Jose Reyes, Cardinals - David Eckstein, Dodgers - Rafael Furcal, Padres - Dave Roberts,

Yankees - Johnny Damon, Twins - Luis Castillo, A’s -Jason Kendall, Tigers -Curtis Granderson or Pudge Rodriguez.

I feel like we’ve addressed the bullpen now with Wickman and Soriano to go with Villareal, and McBride. Getting Hampton back in the mix and C.James for a full year is huge. Really, we are only missing a LF and a leadoff man.
If we fill those 2 spots with one guy, I think there’s no reason this won’t be our best team since ‘96.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this

I was not really offended, Sir Scoots; I was just poking a little fun. I have been known to do that from time to time, often to my own detriment. As for the merits of aqua vitae, being a heretical whiskey afficionado I would far rather decant than recant. :-)

By ray

December 7, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

Pleased with the trade. I have to give JS credit. And nice moves with Pittsburgh to make Seattle a little antsy. Dave were YOU involved in that at all in regards to making sure “things were progressing and close to being done?” Making sure Seattle got that news. Don’t plead the 5th Dave. One quick note in regards to a lead off man. It is not like it used to be. There are only a few teams that have a Reyes, Crawford etc. NO one steals 70,80 or 90 bases anymore so yes speed at the top is a terrific asset but not needed. Table setter, good obp which is more important than batting avg. That position in the batting lineup has changed quite a bit. Talked to a good friend of mine that is unfortunately a Seattle fan.. he tells me we will love Soriano and he should thrive in the Braves atmosphere and playing for Bobby Cox. He can flat bring it. I am sure JS will tweak a bit more. Giles, 5-6 million… he has got to go. And him better than Edgar come on now.. lets be real here. Renteria is solid. He produces at the plate as well. You do not have to worry about his fielding.

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this

CL, mea culpa. I used “bruh” before reading your missive. Just goes to show I’m still nothing but a jumped-up ole country boy after all, despite any protestations to the contrary! BTW, my favorite part of Grinch’s post was “intellectually bereft”…anyone who can toss off such a phase, ain’t! :-)

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

Robert (JITB), I had similar thoughts earlier about trying solve the issue contractually. I’ve not seen anything from Giles on his preferences of staying/leaving, so this line of thought was on the supposition of his wanting to stay. I know Bobby wants him to stay - and I agree that it would just be ‘wrong’ to cast him off. Yeah, yeah, I know….budget. But where there’s a will there’s a way. It could be worked out. Maybe?? :-))

By NCBravesFan

December 7, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this

I’m pretty psyched about the upcoming season. The Braves have improved themselves with Soriano - and with a returning Hampton. Meanwhile the Phillies added Freddy Garcia, and the Mets look like they will be first in line to get Zito. Looks like the summer of 2007 will be a fun one around the Ted - and the division chase could be a real barn burner!

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

Ah, yes, I see the “leadoff hitter solves all” faction is alive and well. Never mind that Braves are still missing another LH RP; that there is no pop on the bench; and need one more starter to really solidify the rotation. I see that all those things, with few if any trade pieces to use, will all just fall into place, just so long as there is a great leadoff hitter acquired. Yes, I see it now, I must have been temporarily off the planet not to realize it earlier. Thank you all for the enlightenment. By the way, any prize-pool fantasy leagues you guys play in? I’m always looking for easy money.

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

Hey, Scoots! :-))) You are decidedly not intellectually berefit, by any stretch of the imagination! The timing of my thought and Grinch’s post was perfection! :-)) (You’re well these days??)

By Calvin

December 7, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

Ward signed with the Cubbies.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 07:48 PM | Link to this

Robert (JITB), my sentiments exactly, though I hadn’t worked out the logistics nearly that far. I am in absolute, total, 100% agreement.

Jimmy, let’s hope Bob doesn’t need a size 14 fedora now. BTW, I too favor oatmeal creme pies (with those little glass bottle cokes) but am not a gold glove center fielder or even a “P” player. Do you think they could use an aging middle linebacker with a screwed-together knee? I’d play for the league minimum. Hell, I’d play baseball for free hot dogs and beer.

CL, we are not any of us nearly as evolved as we think. :-)

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this

CL, thanks for asking. Doesn’t seem as if you and I are ever around here at the same time anymore, my fault, I’m sure. I’ll do better, I promise. The holidays are almost here, and that’s when my spring training clock starts ticking. So bloggin I will be, probably to the chagrin of many other posters.

BTW, saw a great new blog word from somebody earlier (I’ll look it up later for proper credit): “eclectric”, when talking about Soriano’s stuff. Guess Rafael is both well-read AND possessed of a great heater!

By Salty

December 7, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

Robert(JITB), Grinch, the most fair CL I…4th your ideas on Renteria…as posted earlier today. I still believe the trade with the most bang is the one none of us here are thinking of. Then again, I don’t think this blog can have a trade combo sneaked through…it’s a pretty savvy group.

KC I’m still with you on HoRam, and will support your ‘I told you so’ in full voice when the time comes! Meanwhile, perhaps we should visit the Mariner blog and talk HoRam up a bit!

By AZBravoFan

December 7, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

I wonder if maybe some of the lack of interest in Giles stems from the fact that the Braves really might non-tender him. Unless someone really wants him and is willing to give up some talent in a trade, why not wait for him to be non-tendered then sign him as a free agent, giving up no one?

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

Good one on the new word, scoots. And yes, it is entirely your fault you don’t pay more attention to when CL logs on to the blog. Don’t you get the same audible signal the rest of us do? (the sound of a John Deere lawn tractor slinging a rod) :-) I’d better behave, Bob’s already threatened me with my mommy. Of course, last time he left the blog to go soak in the tub his computer didn’t work for about three months.

For those with the NFL network, Pittsburgh’s playing Cleveland right now (gotta love Thursday night football). Of course, if you bothered subscribing to the NFL network, you probably already know that. Also, Thrashers/Lightning on SS.

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

Scoots, “my fault, I’m sure” - not at all. I’ve been up to my ears with Mother’s constant care - and I often just don’t have the energy left to write anything. But it is sooo good to touch base with you again! :-))

By Ralph

December 7, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

J.S. has got to get rid of all the dead-wood and the bump on the log players. The Braves couldn’t do it with the players they had last year and didn’t have (disable list) so its time to bring in new blood, now that doesn’t mean they are going to do any better. But what ever they do, it will be done with new blood and so we can learn to spell their names, and criticizes them. Getting after Giles, LaRoche, Hudson, C. Jones, the other Jones, Todd Pratt, Jeff Francoeur, Ryan Langehans, on and on was getting old . The new player can be carbon-copies of the players that were traded or they can be the answer the Braves needed. Either way if the Braves don’t improve it will be and disappointing year for the Braves fans.

By ncscoots

December 7, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

ah, Grinch…give that man a Little Debbie. I WONDERED what that rod-slinging sound was. I’d give CL a new Toro for Christmas, but I’d hate to lose the source of all that John Deere humor!

By J-MAN

December 7, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

Don’t know much about Soriano other than getting drilled off his dome by Big Vlad last season, what does his fast-ball clock out at, what is his other pitches and K/9IP and strike-out to walk ratio. I still think we need another lefty (mabye Ray King) in the BP and for gods sake go after a lead-off guy.

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

Now, Grinch, don’t you dare jinx that thing!!! (Funny, funny!!!) You know all that money I just spent on that…that…thing a couple of weeks ago? $454 it was? Well, I STILL have to spray ether in the breather to get it started!

Last summer, I had struggled and struggled with that thing and couldn’t get it started. In total frustration, I took the cover off the air breather and BLASTED it with ether, turned the key and KA-POOOOOW!!! it started with a huge billow of smoke - and the stub of a tailpipe that was left blew off. Got a little carried away that time…….

Had the new muffler put on it last repair visit but it still doesn’t have a tail pipe.

Still doesn’t start, either…….

By Carroll

December 7, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

German: what on earth are you talkin about?! Where did I say anything about wishing the Braves had gotten Bonds back then?! All I said is that the Pirates did JS pretty daggum wrong in the whole ordeal back then (i.e., trading Bonds to us and then un-trading him), and now turnabout is fair play.

By stew

December 7, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Can’t we make legitimate offer to Andruw like 18 mill a year? He’d take it. He wants to stay. We can’t replace him. What’s he making now? 12.5? Can’t we find 5.5 somewhere? There’s only one Andruw.

By Rosalynn

December 7, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

Jimma used to croon when we were yougah. That boy could croooonnn! I am reminded about how Jimma sung like a birhd one night at the ballpahk when Felipe Alou was playin’ the outfield. This was befoah Jimma was leader of the free world. Back then Jimma could let his haih down and have some fun at the ballpahk. Well, Jimma was croonin’ a song about love and it distracted Felipe Alou and Felipe threw the fingah at Jimma - and boy did Jimma got hot! Felipe called Jimma a “bad balladeah” and Jimma said, “I am no balladeah, I am a croona!” “Well, said Felipe Alou, if that was croonin’ I manage a Canadian baseball team and you are the future President of the United States!” I always felt that Felipe should have been in Jimma’s cabinet aftah that, but Jimma held a grudge because Felipe called him a bad balladeah. Oh, well, I guess the other thing botherin’ Jimma is the possible loss of young Mahcus Giles. Jimma says Mahcus reminds him of his little brother Billa. Billa used to play second base on the church softball team and Jimma was the stah pitcha. Much like Mahcus, Billa would get the tenda hands and miss a game or two, or hit lots of little popups in the aih, and the next thing ya know you ain’t squat.

By Carroll

December 7, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

That being said, why were the Braves just playing games with Gonzo? He sounds like he might be the best closer in baseball. Why the heck didn’t we jump at the chance to get him if the Buccos were willing to deal him(even if it would cost LaRoche), DOB. That’s just crazy.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 08:43 PM | Link to this

Sounds like you got the lawnmower equivilant of Horacio Ramirez…

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Grinch, I forgot to mention that if you played for free hot dogs and beer, you’d probably wind up playing for nothing when the bullpen boys found out there was a new source of food available! :-))

A new Toro, Scoots?? Really?? :-))

By Carolina Lady

December 7, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Yep. I’d agree with that, Green One!

By brent

December 7, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

Carroll, My hunch is that the Braves feel like Soriano has the potential (or is right now) as close to as good as Gonzalez.

So, why trade LaRoche to add to a bullpen that may actually be set, and risk trying to replace his offense?

Just a thought, not a debate.

By Josh

December 7, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

David, or anyone.

Are there any Rumors floating around? I was gone at Basketball practice so I couldn’t keep up with the blog. Thanks!

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

J-man, agreed on the need for another lefty. But they’re tough to come by, obviously. On the other hand, it’s at least a bit less important now that they’ve got the 8th and 9th innings covered a lot of nights with Soriano ande Wickman (Soriano’s tough on lefties, extremely tough on righties).

They’ll look for one right up to and into spring, I’m sure. I don’t think it’ll be Gonzalez now, but wow, would that be something? Overwhelming ‘pen, that would be…. But as I’ve said, I sure wouldn’t trade LaRoche for Gonzalez now that they have Soriano. Before, without Soriano, I’d have done it.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this

BTW, scoots, thanks for the Little Debbie. I’m watching my weight, and Jimmy Smith says they help you slim down.

CL, I ain’t no slouch size or temprament wise, especially when it comes down to free food and beer. I could take McBride. Wicky and Parantoe might knock me off the table but they’d have to team up to do it. :-)

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Just got back from about the only place on Disney property where I like to spend money: Virgin Records.

Yes, they had the new Tom Waits three-CD set, “Orphans.” And on sale, at that. Got that, plus the awesome new Cash three-CD “Live at San Quentin Prison” set with vastly expanded music (two CDs, much if previously unreleased, and a DVD documentary), and also the Cold War Kids “Robbers and Cowards” CD that I think one of our regular bloggers recommended a while back.

This review from Interview mag _ “Idiosyncratic sould-blues-rock sound echoes the likes of the Pogues and Tom Waits” _ was all I neeed. Ring it up, son.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, I take it that store doesn’t have a “used” section? :-)

By brian

December 7, 2006 09:25 PM | Link to this

what about Will Startup as the second lefty in the bullpen?

Robert - I agree with the Renteria thoughts as I posted above

Any thoughts on trading Renteria and keeping Giles DOB as has been mentioned in posts above?

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

Got concerns, you wrote: “It seems to me all we have done is replace Baez with Soriano. Granted, Soriano may be a step up or even a big step up, but this is/was a .500 team we are talking about.”

You really believe that? Google them if you don’t have a Bill James or other stats book. Just google them and look at their career numbers, and tell me you really think Soriano is at all comparable to Baez.

Soriano has a 2.89 career ERA (2.17 as a reliever), all in the American League. He had a 2.25 ERA last season.

Baez has a 3.79 career ERA, 4.53 last season.

Soriano has 177 strikeouts with 53 walks and 134 hits allowed in 171 innings, including 151 strikeouts with 37 walks and 91 hits allowed in 128-2/3 innings as a reliever.

That’s 128 baserunners in 128 relief innings.

Baez has 390 strikeouts with 201 walks and 445 hits allowed in 491-1/3 innings.

That’s 646 baserunners in 491 innings.

How are they even remotely the same guy, except they both throw hard (one with excellent command and consistency, the other completely erratic).

By journalist jimmy smith

December 7, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

a formidable bullpen for sure. lots of little debbies here: tanyon sturtze 6’5” 230, tyler yates 6’4” 240, phil stockman 6’8” 250, chad paronto 6’5” 250, bob wickman - just a sissy at 6’1” 230. jimmysmiththinks wicky’s roster weight may not be wicky’s true weight.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

No “used.” No such thing at the Evil Empire.

By Longwood's Finest

December 7, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Any thoughts about bringing Kenny Lofton back (I know he is old) to manage left field, and lead off? Or would that push the payroll too high?

By chris

December 7, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this

just read on mlb.com that Bonds gonna sign a 1-yr for 16 million to stay w/the Giants

By Craig

December 7, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

Ok, so we’re able to keep LaRoche…but will it matter when there is no one in front of him on base? When are the Braves going to seriously look into getting a solid lead off man?

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

JJS, sure it’s Wick’s weight _ if he holds his right foot off the scale.

Stockman’s not an imposing dude _ tall but think, rather gangly. The others are loads _ Paronto’s a pulling guard, Wickman a nose guard, Yates a small-college tackle. Sturtze, I’ll have to see before assigning a position on the line. But he’s big, I know that.

… On an entirely unrelated note, I’m hearing the Braves wanted more than just Gonzalez in that deal, though he was the key. 2B Jose Castillo was discussed, but not clear to me whether Braves wanted him _ he’s got ton of talent and power, but a flake who never walks and lacks baseball savvy.

Anyway, a Pirates guy told me Castillo’s got more natural power than anyone on the team, including Jason Bay. Seriously, that’s what he said. Castillo hit 14 homers last season, but hit only .253 with a .299 OBP and is the furthest thing imaginable from a leadoff guy. Imagine him and Francoeur in the same lineup… Anyway, not going to happen, I’m pretty certain.

By Billy (TBF?B)

December 7, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this

Trade Renteria? Why in the world would you do that?

By Billy (TBF?B)

December 7, 2006 10:11 PM | Link to this

Wow. I did not think there were that many fans that thought Leadoff was our biggest problem last year. I was wrong.

By Billy (TBF?B)

December 7, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

The more and more info that comes out about the Pirates deal makes it appear that the Pirate were in fact the one who really wanted that deal instead of the Braves…

By journalist jimmy smith

December 7, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! “The Cardinals may attempt to finalize agreement with reliever Dan Kolb as well. The former Milwaukee Brewers and Atlanta Braves closer may represent a more palatable option than Octavio Dotel, who also stirred interest but is attracted to any team that will allow him to close rather than serve in a set-up role.” isringhausen, wainwright, and kolb - now, who would you choose?

By berigan

December 7, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this

Grinch, did some checkin’ on Giles batting 2nd in the line-up. Would it surprise you to know that from 2003 thru 2006, Giles never batted less than .300 batting 2nd??? (Yes, I know something is wrong with the way I have typed this, but I can’t seem to make it any better!)

By journalist jimmy smith

December 7, 2006 10:35 PM | Link to this

LAKE BUENA VISTA — The Marlins may be closing in on their next bullpen reclamation project, but they’ll have to open their wallet to get him.

Former All-Star closer Dan Kolb is intrigued with the idea of trying to revive his career with the Marlins, who play at pitcher-friendly Dolphin Stadium, said Damon Lapa, Kolb’s agent.

“open their wallet to get him”?!? oh, the humanity! journalist would be afraid kolb would run in the clubhouse if somebody left the door open. open a wallet for dan kolb? oh, the humanity! baseball is surely going crazy.

By N8

December 7, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this

Billy, I’ve been pssin’ people off on my KC Chiefs blogs all night. *(seems people don’t like me questioning starting TrINT Green over Damon Huard! LOL!)

So without making me read back too far, What’s with the “?” in your moniker? That wasn’t there earlier was it.

DOB

I know I asked this a LONG time ago, but….since Giles is obviously a BETTER 2-hole hitter a lead-off hitter, and probably comparable to Renteria in that spot in the order. Has JS put any thought (to your knowledge) to trading Renteria and keeping Giles to hit number two (WHO DOES NUMBER TWO WORK FOR!)?…sorry about that. Can’t say number two without thinking about Austin Powers.

Anyhow, with arbitration Giles will probably make about the same, give or take, than Renteria. Not to mention it seems that most of the YOUNG STUDS in the system are natural shortstops rather than 2B. Or do they just truely FEEL that Renteria is the safer bet to have a better year at this point? Because to me it seems to be a wash, darn near, BOTH offensively and defensively. Renteria started off hot and cooled down. Giles started of COLD and heated up in the second half, even hitting in a spot in the order he didn’t feel comfortable in. Like I said, if JS announced tomorrow that they had traded Renteria and were keeping Giles, I really think I wouldn’t feel ANY different than if it were the other way around. Am I way off base?

Legit question this time. How ofton does that happen with me?

By jsizzle@gmail.com

December 7, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

I think JS should keep Laroche and Giles. Giles is still only 28 and has been a great 2B for Bobby Cox. He’s got postseason experience, has scored a ton of runs for the Braves, is excellent defensively, and might a bargain considering the way some teams are spending their dough. He had a down year, but I think he is still awesome. Laroche is going to have a great career too, and is definitely a bargain . You have to keep Laroche, I think. Gozalez is nasty though…

IF JS is going to trade one of the two, then I think he should trade Laroche, who’s trade value is higher than Giles, despite Giles’ impressive career numbers and defensive game. (He’s only one year older than Laroche too). So I think the Mike Gonzalez deal would be a good one. Gonzalez is filthy. I think this deal would be a great fit for the Braves, instantly moving their bullpen into the top NL teir. Laroche would be a great addition to the Pirates line-up, too. He would definitely improve their team.

BuccoBlog has a good summary of the rumored Laroche/Gonzalez deal. JS comes out looking real smooth at the table.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

Miss Rosalynn, I’m not much on compliments but your 8:38 was a goodun, straight up, plain and simple!

Scoots, before heading to bed with an increasing fear of the rub … I would caution my good friend against being too generous with compliments tossed in the direction of our mutual friend the Grinch … remember, he has vowed to continue his efforts to steal the Holiday Season … and he, as well as at least half of our residents, can’t spell dog … if that’s not enough to dissuade you, it’s on good authority that I posit that most of the stuff he writes gets edited before it sees the light of day … so you’re probably complimenting somebody else anyway!

Billy Shakes … methinks that will would have liked that!

By Bruce

December 7, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

DOB

Great week of reads. Thanks alot. Bruce

By A.J.

December 7, 2006 10:40 PM | Link to this

All these three team deals are ridiculous.

Do you see how hard it is to get a two team, two player deal done?

Not to be mean Robert, but just look at what you are giving these other teams. That deal is as ridiculous as the Seattle one where the one where the Braves were supposed to give up Giles and LaRoche for Soriano and Benitez. When you saw that supposed rumor I’m sure you thought “Why on earth would the Braves do that?” The answer being, they wouldn’t.

In that deal the Red Sox would be the obvious losers. They would give up one of their best pitching prospects (Hansen) and Coco Crisp so that they could get Cabrera and Langerhans???

You guys act like if you throw another team or another player in the mix the other teams will forget that it’s stupid.

I have a plan for a 5 team trade, no specifics yet, but the Braves give up every member of the Mississippi Braves and in return get Carl Crawford, Billy Wagner, Johan Santana and Ryan Howard. I mean there is your lefty reliever, your leadoff man, the key to a complete rotation and more pop for the lineup.

And why wouldn’t the other teams go for it, they’d get 6 AA guys each. If they really want we can bump it up to the Richmond Braves.

By brian

December 7, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

why trade Renteria? $80 million

I would rather trade Renteria than LaRoche. If we cannot get anything for Giles now, I would consider trading Renteria and moving Giles to the number 2 spot in the batting order. Hopefully Giles would excel and either the Braves sign him to a 2-3 year extension or trade him at summer trade deadline or next offseason when his trade value is back where it should be and our prospects are ready to take over at 2B

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard NO sentiment, no thoughts, about keeping Giles over Renteria and trading Renteria, who’s locked up for two more years at a mere $6 million per. He’s a prototypical No. 2 hitter in every way, has won multiple Gold Gloves and is a make-no-waves presence in the clubhouse who does exactly as he’s told, gets along with everyone, shows up on time every day, comes in early for rehab when he’s hurt, etc. That’s RENTERIA I’m talking about there, just so you get my drift.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

And by the way, Giles could make nearly $6 mill this season, and if he has a good year could push $8-10 mill per year in a multi-year free agent deal next winter. Don’t believe me? Look at Julio Lugo’s contract.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

Billy, maybe those fans who think that leadoff was our biggest problem last year are referring to the first player up each inning rather than the first one up in the game … somewhat of a different kind of problem, if true.

They may have a point since it seems like too many of our runs were scored after two outs had been registered, but I think that our biggest offensive problem was wasted outs, especially strikeouts … and a whole bunch of folks were guilty of those, plain and simple.

g’night Gracie, My Lady, all

By jsizzle@gmail.com

December 7, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I guess if it comes down to dropping salary then Giles has to be the guy to be traded. It’s just too bad the Braves can’t find a way to increase their salary some.

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 7, 2006 11:08 PM | Link to this

Methinks David just got through saying “Read My Lips”

Unlike Pat Paulsen, I really am out of here … Bob has left the bulding, plain and simple!

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

JSizzle, I just used that link to the buccoblog and read their account of what “really” happened in the LaRoche-to-Pirates trade discussions. Interesting. But perhaps they had the AJC confused with another site when they said we ran a story saying or indicating a LaRoche/Gonzalez deal was done. Never wrote anything of the sort. Whatever.

But just FYI, here’s the story, just as I filed it and just as it ran Wednesday:

By DAVID O’BRIEN dobrien@ajc.com

Lake Buena Vista, Fla. _ The Braves want to pry closer Mike Gonzalez from Pittsburgh in a trade for Adam LaRoche, but that discussion and others stalled Tuesday at the mid point of the winter meetings.

Braves general manager John Schuerholz has discussed with numerous teams trade possibilities involving LaRoche, second baseman Marcus Giles and underperforming pitcher Tim Hudson.

“We had a lot of momentum in a lot of conversations, and were encouraged by how those talks were going [before Tuesday],” Schuerholz said. “Today’s follow-up meetings slowed the process d own.”

As always, Schuerholz wouldn’t discuss specific proposals or players involved, which were confirmed by others familiar with negotiations. Schuerholz said talks were stalled, but not dead.

At least five other teams have expressed interest in LaRoche, who shot to the top of the Braves’ desirable-availables list after word spread at the winter meetings that he could be had for the right price. The Braves told teams that trades must help the Braves’ pitching staff.

Gonzalez, 28, would be a huge addition if the Braves can pull off a deal for the flamethrowing left-hander, who had a 2.17 ERA last season and converted 24 of 24 saves after moving into the closer role. He recorded 64 strikeouts in 54 innings, and the Braves envision having him and his 96-mph fastball in a setup role to Bob Wickman, forming one of the best 1-2 bullpen combinations in baseball.

The Braves talked again to Anaheim about a LaRoche trade proposal for Angels utility man Chone Figgins, who could play second base and lead off, and first-base prospect Casey Kotchman. But the Braves also want a pitcher, and the Angels won’t trade starter Ervin Santana or standout setup man Scot Shields.

“It may not be today, may not be tomorrow,” Schuerholz said of trade possibilities, “but I still think we can get some things done…. But nothing’s been accomplished yet. Nothing’s been finalized.”

(There were a few more paragraphs with nothing but background and stats, nothing about negotiations whatsoever.)

By Drew

December 7, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this

DOB, from all these hints, is it safe to assume that you don’t think that a certain arbitration eligible second baseman is a good clubhouse player?

Also, who do you think has the upper hand on the job when Giles is gone? It seems that the Braves don’t want Aybar to be the starter, and prefer him to be a super utility man and give Chipper some days off. Is this correct.

By N8

December 7, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

thanx for the answer DOB (you didn’t have to “read” so angry about it, LOL!)

I hadn’t heard anybody mention it either. (I guess you would be who I would’ve heard anything from in the first place - now that Bobby stopped calling)

Either way, I appreciate the answer.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 7, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, another thanks to you from all us braves fans for keeping us updated during the winter meetings. Your hard work is very appreciated.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

Folks keep trying to figure out LF and all for next season, and the one guy that all of you (and me, at times) keeps forgetting who could figure in is T.J. Bohn, 26, the 6-foot-5 outfielder the Braves claimed off waivers from Seattle last month.

Bohn hit .283 with nine homers, 43 RBIs and 15 stolen bases in 97 games for Triple-A Tacoma last season. No great shakes, but they thought enough of him to claim him. He’s on the 40-man roster, so he’s got that going in his favor.

Don’t know why I just thought of that, but Bobby C mentioned him yesterday.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 7, 2006 11:32 PM | Link to this

N8,

I was/am confused about my identity. Having a typo in my name all these months has impacted my sense of self quite seriously…almost to the point where I don’t know who I am anymore….

Yeah…not so funny or clever response huh….anyways, it was in response to Bob’s recognition of me correcting the purposely placed typo in my moniker.

By MS

December 7, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

Ditto that futurebravesgm, thanks DOB. Although my boss can’t be enjoying the recent dip in productivity…

By Drew

December 7, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, one other question: It has been said that Cormier could be a rotation option for another team. What do you think about Cormier and Langerhans to Texas for lefty CJ Wilson and maybe a pitching prospect? Langerhans could be a good fit in center in Texas, where they currently have a hole. I’m sure he’d hit fine in that stadium, and could patrol center pretty well. What do you think?

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 7, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

I’ve been trying to get DOB to respond to that article for the past 24 hours….I’ve been scooped.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 11:42 PM | Link to this

Drew, correct _ on Aybar as backup 3B/2B, not starter. They want him to be super utility guy (though I think their use of the “super” label is a stretch, since most who get that tag are 4- and 5-position guys. John might just be referring to his ability, though, when he says “super utility” guy, meaning better than a typical backup.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 7, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I must say I got the same inclination that Drew did.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

I don’t think anyone’s going to give up a decent lefty (which Wilson is) AND a prospect for Langy & Cormier.

By The Grinch

December 7, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this

Wickman 6’1, 230? I last played at 5’10, 250 and I had nowhere near that gut. If he’s an ounce under 270 then I’m a model citizen. Not bloody likely.

Bob, you’re wrong for that. :-)

DOB, not to disparage you or 80% of the other folks here, but I can only hope JS is thinking like me and trades the interchangeable player that’s worth something rather than the one who isn’t. And Berigan, no it doesn’t surprise me in the least that Giles hasn’t hit under .300 in the #2 spot in the last three years. Renteria most certainly has, though (despite being three years older), and this is the great mistake that’s gonna haunt us for quite some time. Edgar’s gonna drop off, and Giles is gonna pick back up where he left off when he isn’t managed by Booby Cox. We will get nothing in return, and our payroll will be slightly higher in order to retain a player who’s slightly older and not quite as good. Brilliant. BTW, DOB, the “used” reference I made was for the “Virgin” records store, ha ha.

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 11:50 PM | Link to this

And thanks for the thank-yous.

Or, “Thankya. Thankyaverymuch…. I’d like to introduce the band. On gi-tar, and handling my water and scarves, here’s Charlie Hodge….”

It’s late. I need some sleep, obviously. Flight in the AM. What’s the temp in Atlanta, about 20-below from what I hear?

By HungryJack

December 7, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this

Dave, Enjoyed your comment about Renteria’s work ethic. That’s the kind of inside info that we hope to see on here. Which other players are viewed as having the right stuff in the locker room?

By David O'Brien

December 7, 2006 11:57 PM | Link to this

Grinch, yeah, I caught that after I replied to you. Didn’t feel it was appropriate for me to respond. Uh-hum.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 7, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

Who replaces Renteria? If in fact you wre to deal him…we dont have too many people ready to step in at SS…

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 12:01 AM | Link to this

Oh, and one other thing, DREW: Langerhans would not be a good fielder in that stadium, he’d be a GREAT fielder in that stadium. But that’s because he’d be a great fielder in ANY stadium. The dude can flat out play defense, every aspect, fundamentally sound and with the instincts, jumps and speed to make spectacular catchers on a regular basis.

If he’d pick back up on the offense he showed as a rookie, he’d be a damn solid major leaguer, a fourth-outfielder at worst and a starter for a lot of teams. Last year, he did almost nothing offensively.

By gotigers72

December 8, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this

Good trade JS. After his rookie year, I felt HoRam was an Odalis Perez throwalike. Soft tossing lefty, who if he didn’t have pinpoint control would get lit up. Kind of like Odalis is getting lit up now. As you can see by the stats DOB put up, HoRam hasn’t had pinpoint control for quite awhile. Lots of walks and HRs allowed.

I disagree with you DOB about Giles and LaRoche. I would rather keep Giles and trade LaRoche. $5 mil ain’t that big a deal in MLB, especially if you’re trading somebody [LaRoche] that would be making $3 mil or more. I think it would be easier to replace LaRoche than Giles. Thorman hasn’t had enough time in MLB to see how his power will turn out. He was a power hitter in the minors, and McCann said Thorman’s power potential was “sick”. He’s definitely a better baserunner and strikes out less than LaRoche, he’s 2 years younger so his defense could improve.

On the other hand, I don’t see anybody the Braves currently have that could come close to replacing Marcus. It ain’t Aybar. Everybody sings Prado’s praises, but I didn’t see it. He didn’t have that great of a year in the minors, and he just finished a terrible year in winter ball. I just believe Marcus is too big a piece of the puzzle to give up without having somebody ready to go. Maybe Y. Escobar, but he’s never played MLB, and hasn’t played much 2B, which is a much different position than SS. Only if they could trade for a ready made ML 2nd baseman could I see any reason for getting rid of Marcus. Marcus for Linebrink would not be a good trade, and unnecessary now that the Braves have Soriano.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 12:23 AM | Link to this

I think some people are hopless….

By bruce

December 8, 2006 12:36 AM | Link to this

Dave, Not trying to make excuses for Langy, but I am thinking I recall he had a hand injury that was slow healing that hurt his swing most of the year… and things were better at the end? Is this close? Thanks, Bruce

By David-ATL14

December 8, 2006 01:25 AM | Link to this

DOB, fine job at the meetings.Let me see if I have all the candidates for LF

From the right side:Diaz,Bohn

From the left side:Langy,KJ,Thorman,Blanco

I think it would behoove the braves to get Aybar some time in LF, will only help his versatility. of course i thought the same thing about Betemit. Nothing wrong though with having a switch hitter thay could play 3b-2b and a serviceable LF. Options

By Steve

December 8, 2006 01:28 AM | Link to this

I would still like to add another arm to the bullpen. I think a lead-off hitter is a must and maybe the Braves can revisit the Figgins deal

Why did the deal with the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez fall through?

By Marty

December 8, 2006 01:40 AM | Link to this

Dave, how about letting Diaz have LF? Other than a few major defensive lapses over the course of a long season, I thought he was fairly impressive on defense and outstanding on offense.

By David-ATL14

December 8, 2006 01:54 AM | Link to this

Diaz had a fine year but I am of the opinion that he is better in small doses. More a 4th OF type.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 01:58 AM | Link to this

KC: LOL. Fairnuff. I like HoRam as well. Could resist though.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 01:59 AM | Link to this

That was supposed to be “couldn’t resist”

By futurebravesgm2413

December 8, 2006 02:05 AM | Link to this

I agree with David. Diaz’s strength and value comes from the production he gives us in limited ABs. He is a good platoon guy and a great assest of the bench. But as far as an everday player I think he would become more flawed.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 8, 2006 03:20 AM | Link to this

Does anyone think that JS is a fantastic speaker? In his interviews he always sounds extremely professional, curtious, and knowledgeable. He is a model figurehead for the Braves organization.

By Thecoolest

December 8, 2006 04:41 AM | Link to this

Whoever said Diaz should start, I’m with you… The consensus is generally that he should be limited to few at-bats, but my opinion is of the “How much does someone have to do to play every day?” variety. Former platooners can can be viable every-day starters (See - Laroche), and didn’t he tie an NL record last season with like ten consecutive hits? Good enough for me.

By berigan

December 8, 2006 05:02 AM | Link to this

How the other half lives, oh to have the Red Sox owners(I know, we wouldn’t want to pay what they pay to see a game) http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=170885

By carlos sienna

December 8, 2006 06:43 AM | Link to this

If they trade laroche they are total fools they havent had a true first baseman since gallaraga, five six years

By NCBravesFan

December 8, 2006 07:24 AM | Link to this

Been reading a little about the JD Drew signing in Boston, and it does not paint a pretty picture of Hahira’s finest. According to reports, JD assured the Dodgers he was going nowhere right up until he signed with the Sox. No wonder, as DOB put it, the Dodgers are PO’d at Boras, which would seem to quell any of those Andruw/Dodger rumors - which seem farfetched anyway. Boras aside, I do hope the Braves will make every effort to sign Andruw. Sure, he seems to give away far too many at-bats … but any deficiencies are greatly outweighed by his defense and ability to mash the ball over the course of a season. He’d be a huge loss.

By Mitchie-san

December 8, 2006 07:34 AM | Link to this

Hello all, I am still feeling like JS has one more card up his sleeve….

By Joseph Coffey

December 8, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

Trade one of the better players( giles)?
NO, Giles is a positive influence on the team as a whole and is more enthusastic than many of the overpaid prima donnas.
Trade LaRoach? YES, numbers don’t tell the complete story about any player. He can be valuable but in the total team picture, he seems to be elsewhere at times and not on top of the game as Giles is.

By MEB

December 8, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

DOB… Lost in all the deals and discussions is Matt Diaz. Sure seems like Matt would receive some outside interest and be included in some trade discussions. What exactly are the Braves thinking in regards to Matt and his .327 AVG and .364 OBP? He had a lot of big hits for the Braves last year and plays a decent left field.

By Bryan

December 8, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

Joseph,

read between the lines regarding Renteria and Giles in Mr O’Brian’s post earlier (especially the last part).

“I’ve heard NO sentiment, no thoughts, about keeping Giles over Renteria and trading Renteria, who’s locked up for two more years at a mere $6 million per. He’s a prototypical No. 2 hitter in every way, has won multiple Gold Gloves and is a make-no-waves presence in the clubhouse who does exactly as he’s told, gets along with everyone, shows up on time every day, comes in early for rehab when he’s hurt, etc. That’s RENTERIA I’m talking about there, just so you get my drift.”

No so subtle, but that’s a tip of the cards to old mr. giles in the club house.

After LaRoach’s bone headed plays this summer of - you can take the fact that he is still around as a testament to his presence on the team and on the field. Anybody else would have been gone after that.

By Splitter

December 8, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Wew need dominate pitching. That is what wins Championships. Our bullpen has been horrible recently. Trade Giles and a prospect for another quality arm in the pen. While we seem to have the Angel’s ear, trade for Scot Shields. He seems like a perfect fit. He’s the best at what he does and he will be the next dominate closer. Left handed hitters only hit .206 against him. He has led all of baseball in holds the last two years. The Angels will want someone good for him.

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

I don’t know if trading or letting go of Giles would help the Braves if Chone Figgins is the everyday secondbaseman. Trading him for Figgins and a pitcher may be a okay.

Figgins is a very good player, but Giles will be one of the top two or three 2B in the league if he’s healthy. That’s a lot of production to replace.

I say the Braves bite the bullet this year and pay Giles whatever he gets in arbitration (or sign him to a one-year deal) unless they can get two or three pretty good players in return because this is the Braves last best hope for a World Series title.

The Braves have to go for it all this year. AJ’s a free agent. Smoltz and Chipper are getting older. Renteria may not have many more good years left. Their closer is older.

If the Braves trade Giles, they need to trade him for what will equal his run production/prevention in 2007.

By Mark

December 8, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

Speaking of Giles and the 2nd base spot. Has anyone heard about the free agent signing of Willie Harris? Kid is from Cairo and scored the winning run for the CWS in 2004, game 7. He figured to be a starter for the BoSox last year until Coco Crisp showed up and he wallowed around between Boston and Pawtucket before packing his bags. Only 26 he could be some help with his speed. Word is he signed but I can find nothing about it?

By j hollins

December 8, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

Don’t trade LaRoche now, that was the trade last year instead of Bettament. We could have moved Chipper to 1st base for 2 years and kept two switch hitters in the line up? Now lets keep the left handed bat in.

LaRoche is a good player and will get better.

By KC

December 8, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

Salty: Do the Mariner’s have a blog like this that you’re aware of? It’d be fun to discuss this trade with some Mariner’s fans.

By Bryan

December 8, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

wow, according to the athens banner herald there really was a deal for brian roberts and Penn for giles and laroach.

O’brien (sorry about misspelling you name) I saw Gillian Welch last week and she played alot of new songs - some bad a$$ stuff … \

By braveslifer

December 8, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

DOB-along the lines of your “Charlie Hodge” post, here’s another off that SPECTACULAR album: “The inspiration is Estelle”

By Lew

December 8, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Bryan-I hardly think the Athens Banner Herald is a significant news source (especially after living in Athens for 8 years). Stop and look at that trade. Giles and Roberts have very similar numbers. It would be almost even up between the two of them. This leaves Penn, a young pitcher with an ERA around 9.00 in exchange for LaRoche, an established player, a .285 hitter with 32 HR and 90 RBI. Does this sound equitable to you? I’m certain that if Scheurholz even listened to this deal, much less initiated it, as has been reported, he is rapidly approaching senility.

By Bobby

December 8, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

DOB-First of all thanks for all the hardwork and responses. Quick LHR idea, what about Will Ohman of the Cubs. I noticed the Cubs now have 7 LHP on their roster with major league experience. Surely they can spare one and Ohman has been tough vs LH (.165AVG, .599OPS) over last 3 seasons. Thoughts? Thanks again.

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

After LaRoach’s bone headed plays this summer of - you can take the fact that he is still around as a testament to his presence on the team and on the field. Anybody else would have been gone after that.

You mean the one play where he failed to hustle to the bag? I think a great player would have to do more than fail to hustle on one play to get himself traded from the Braves. LaRoche was benched and that was good enough.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

Splitter, you wrote: “While we seem to have the Angel’s ear, trade for Scot Shields.”

They’ve refused all offers for Shields from numerous teams. He’s untouchable, or close. And look at his numbers, you’ll see why. Verrrrry durable, reliable.

Bryan, someone else here on the blog saw Gillian Welch, too, said it was a great show. But told me she didn’t sing “My Morphine.” Oh, well, guess she sang a ton of other great stuff, original and some covers, right?

By Bobby

December 8, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

Or we could complete our offensive line (bullpen) with Ray King, who is a free agent.

By CK

December 8, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

Does anyone realize that the new Braves owners may actually increase the payroll in 2008 so we may still be in the AJ picture?

By KC

December 8, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Shaun:

I think we’ve got enough good young talent to keep us competetive for a while, but I agree that next season seems like the best opportunity in a while to win a World Series.

Smoltz and A.Jones will both be eligible for free agency next winter, and Chipper is getting older (his body has made him older than he really is).

Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, James… 1-4, this rotation has a chance to be special, I believe.

Add a solid bullpen and a potent offense… yup, I think we’ve got as good a shot as anyone (on paper… but “paper’s” all anyone’s got to go on until April).

Hopefully, the owenership transfer will be over and done with early in the season. And I’m also hopeful that if the Braves need to go out and get someone down the stretch, that Liberty will allow them the payroll flexability to do so.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Bobby-I think picking up Ray King might depend on whether or not you were trying to put together the world’s heaviest bullpen-not necessarily the most effective.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

DOB-With your workload the past couple of days, I’m sure it passed you by (for good reason, of course), but what do you think of Grace Potter and The Nocturnals, a local Vermont band that is gaining notice? She has a great bluesy voice that has been favorably compared to Bonnie Raitt and Janis Joplin. Have you heard them yet?

By Mark

December 8, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

DOB- Sorry to be a pest but have you heard about Willie Harris being signed as a free agent or to a minor league contract? Shame to see his career end on a down note

By Lew

December 8, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

KC-I was talking to Grinch last night and we were discussing Chipper and his injuries (among other Braves’ topics). We are of the opinion that almost all, if not ALL of Chipper’s problems last season were as a direct result of that San Francisco slide on the turf. Chipper went to great lengths last off season to considtion himself like he never had before. I don’t think we will see any lingering effects from that injury. At the time, I was afraid it would be season-ending, but he still managed to pull of a pretty damn good season, injuries notwithstanding. I think he may surprise people this year with his durability. I think he may still have another MVP season in him. I would think it another possibility that the Braves try to sign Smoltz to a two year extension somewhere during the season.

By BB FAN

December 8, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

With the trade for Soriano and the re-signing of Wickman, the Braves have strengthened the weak spot of last years team. And they did it without giving up too much.

Now all they need to do is get a baserunning coach in spring training to help them run the bases. Francoeur, Renteria, Aybar all have speed, but I noticed too many baserunning errors last year. Baserunning errors cost them some games. Aybar probably could hit leadoff and be very successful if he learned how to run the bases. Some of the problems is just inexperience but I even noticed Renteria making a few costly mistakes last year as well.

By Bobby

December 8, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Lew- The Ray King comment was partially a joke, but I would like to know your definition of effective. King even with serving a year in pitcher prison (Colorado) has immpressive splits vs LH (.222Avg,.624OPS) over last 3 years. Who is your effective/affordable free agent option?

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

Lew, getting ready to jump on this plane and saw your post. Had to tell you, hadn’t heard of them until I saw the CD at Virgin Records yesterday, and on the cover sticker there was high praise for the band from Bonnia Raitt and from the great Taj Mahal. I picked it up and was going to play it on the in-store player they have, but the thing was broken (the player). So I didn’t hear it. Wanted to hear it before I bought it, so I’ll have to try to listen somewhere else. But it sounds like something that I’d really dig. Interesting.

CARLOS, I agree, those who’d trade LaRoche aren’t thinking it through. That’s all I can figure. But I’d stop short of calling them fools. I’ll let you do that for me (kidding, foo … uh, good people.)

I’ll check back later. Gotta fly (literally)

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 8, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

DOB

Now that the meetings are over and people are starting to discuss music again, I’ll go ahead and tell you that I acquired a Lucero c.d. last week. It was a burned c.d. that someone gave me, so I don’t know the name of the songs or what albums they came off of. Sounds like some pretty good stuff. There’s one particular song that I’m hooked on right now:

*”She’s my best girl,

She’s got six strings,

And she knows all about this

heatbreakin’ thing.

Her eyes might not shine, but she’s

always by my side.”*

Somebody help me out, here

By Salty

December 8, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Lew Heaviest bullpen…good one…that crossed my mind (a very fast trip!) as well!

KC No idea if there’s a Mariner blog…just had to show my support for you! I will check, though!

CL Way off topic…but blessings and strength be with you. I know first hand your challenge…still nice to know people take upon themselves to care for their own. ;-)

By Bryan

December 8, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

The only cover she did was of Jackson - which was AWESOME! (though Dave did a Ryan Adams song that they co-wrote).

Dave, check out Little County Giants. They are from Rome, GA and they are one of the best new folk/county/bluegrass bands.

They are very smart songwriters with a knack for harmony and song craftsmanship. They were voted best folk band by creative loafing and play ever Wednesday for free up here at a bar in Rome (I left athens to temporarily move home and help my dad with his restaurant in downtown Rome: Schroeder’s).

I whole heartedly recommend buying this bands album and coming up and seeing them live.

Bryan (ps there is another bryan around here - not me - its been months since I posted, round the Aybar trade).

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

Mark,

Harris may have signed a minor league deal but his signing may not be news. Here are his career averages after 1014 plate appearances:

.238 AVG/.306 OBP/.294 SLG

There’s no way he would have started for the Sox. I’m sure the Sox got him to primarily because he’s a very cheap pinch-runner/utility guy.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

KC Use this for starters…though not a format like DOB has. I’ll dig a bit deeper…but there is a ‘chat’ on HoRam…even John Thompson. http://forums.seattletimes.nwsource.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=22

By Scott

December 8, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

—-Or we could complete our offensive line (bullpen) with Ray King, who is a free agent.—-

Please, no. Every time he came in to pitch for the Braves I would hold my breath. We’re already doing enough of that with our current bullpen.

By dave salter

December 8, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

remember sometimes the best trade you make is the trade you didnt make. keep laroche.unless you get Detroits big three.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 8, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

KC, You commented asking everyone if we realized that new ownership may increase payroll so we can keep Andruw. Well: 1. If the ownership change actually ever gets done. 2. If the payroll is increased we don’t know how much. 3. Or if the increase is only enough to cover the raises all of our great young players will be receiving. 4. Inorder for us to resign Andruw we’d most likely have to deal Hudson and get a big bump in payroll.

By KC

December 8, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Lew: Chipper clearly still has a full tank in terms of ability. In regard to his health… My concern has nothing to do with a particular incident. He has had a hamstring issue (and those things are famous for re-occurring). He apparently has some kind of condition with his feet that he himself has said could be an issue for the remainder of his career, and didn’t he have one of those rib-cage area muscle pulls this season? It seems like there’s been another injury or two over the past couple seasons that I’m not thinking of.

At any rate, I certainly hope he’ll be healthy, but the biggest thing in my mind is that he be healthy in September and October. If he can be 100% (or close to it) down the stretch and in October, I’ll be happy.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Bobby-I hope this doesn’t post twice, the computer’s acting up. I know your post was somewhat in jest. I don’t really have a problem with King’s effectiveness-as you point out, he was pretty good. There’s just something about him that has always bothered me-though probably for no good reason. The main objection I have is his $2.5 million salary (last year’s). First off I don’t think we can afford a free agent option at all and second, I know damn well we can’t afford $3 mil or more for a one out guy. So don’t worry, Dude-I’m not casting aspersions on your ideas, I just know that we’re tight in the pocketbook area these days.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Kudos to Bobby, finally a trade name heretofore unmentioned, and not even a roto fantasy. Bobby, what’s the downside to the Cubs if Ohman is dealt? What was his role with the Cubs? I must admit, he’s off my radar, know nothing about the guy.

one other thing…Wick at 230? Please! I can only think he plays “big”, then!

By Scott

December 8, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Mariners blog on the Seattle Post-Intelligencer website. Mariners fans are VERY upset about this trade.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/109457.asp#comments

By Lew

December 8, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

KC-As far as the hamstring-Chipper has not had recurrences since he left the outfield. As far as the oblique-Again, I attribute those problems to the whole ankle/knee thing in SF. Much the same as Dizzy Dean’s toe injury causing arm problems. He will, by his own report, take lengths during conditioning to strengthem his core muscles. This should, hopefully, take care of that. I’m still of the opinion that the WBC screwed up all the Braves conditioning last year. Chipper, Francoeur, Reitsma-all had problems that might have been avoided by a full spring training, with their normal work out routines.. Andruw, too, for that matter, with his slip on the stairs in Puerto Rico. He had back troubles all season, too.

By Braves Light

December 8, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

DOB

I agree with Got Concerns post for the most part. I do believe Soriano is much better than Baez and that a Soriano/Wickman combo will be great.

That said the entire Pen did cause us fits in 06 and p** away many games as a unit - one trade is not enough.

Also our starters and lack of timely offense contributed more than their fair share to our .500 record.

The team we fielded this year, last year and many years before continues to be unbalanced. Whether it’s due to injuries and or a series of poor moves by JS we cannot put together the right combination of offense, speed and pitching etc. In other words we go into every season with too many “IFs”.

What JS has proven is tweaking every year gets this team to the same place which is one and done (even less this year).

JS cannot rely on “IFs” and needs to do more - one new starter (not named Davies) and a LF/leadoff guy at a min if we expect this team to get far in the playoffs.

I for one have zero interest in merely shooting for a meaningless NL East flag or crawling into a wild card slot.

Soriano is a big trade but it is not enough.

By BravesFaninRockies

December 8, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

I hestiate to say it, but Giles may have sealed his own fate. Had he made some modest adjustments (not swinging for the fences when he has two strikes, for instance) and embraced the leadoff spot we would not be lamenting his departure.

Sounds like a solid guy and a good teammate who’s overcome personal tragedy. But his stubbornness has made him expendable. Hate to see it. Really do.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

I went on the Seattle Times blog and man that is one upset group of fans. They are calling for the removal of Bavasi and organizing a protest. I think he may be burned in effigy by the fans and maybe more if the guy were to show up. NO ONE there likes this trade, so apparently we got a great deal. KC, maybe you need to go on this site and use your optimism to a void a blow up.

By Bobby

December 8, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Lew-My thoughts/hope would be King available for $1M or so, since year in CO made him look bad.

ncsoots-Ohman and Eyre were the Cubs primary LHR last years. Cubs acquired Cotts from White Sox plus Rusch will should shift exclusively to the pen with signing of Lilly, so they will already have 3 LHS (Lilly, Hill, Marshall) and 3 LHR (Eyre, Cotts, Rusch). Therefore, I hope Ohman is available.

Another random thought…I have problem believing Red Sox actually start season with Pedroia or Cora at 2B. Maybe home for Giles? That being said, I say we work out one year deal with Giles ($5M) and continue to work on deals for him as we approach the season. I see no reason to panic and dump him no purely for salary sake.

By Zac

December 8, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ouelcsnx3t0 Theres the video of soriano getting nailed in the cranium by a vlad line drive; must have a thick skull.

By Bobby

December 8, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Shaun-I am not a big Willie Harris fan, but I think you are overstating things a bit. Harris 3yr splits compare similarily with Taveras(CF-Hou) who several on this site have asked for in trade.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

I’m not so sure that LF is the black hole so many on the blog purport it to be. Uncertain, perhaps, and I can certainly see why that would lead many to lobby for a change at the position.

But the possiblities exist for better production from that position strictly from in-house. Langerhans did play hurt most of last year, and did show some stick as a rookie. It’s possible he could reclaim his stroke, and if he hits .270, he plays every day for me. Thorman absolutely has a chance to be a horse, if not overwhelmed or exposed by playing a lot. That swing and that power hitting 8? Yikes, if he fulfills potential. And while I don’t see Diaz as an everyday player, he could certainly fool me, hit .420 in spring training, and win the job. And who knows what other options the Braves plan to have in camp? Plenty, I’m guessing.

Think my point is that trading for a LF, especially some of the names that have been broached, would not only be fiscally counterproductive but an underutilization of tradable assets. I think LF will be more productive next year without importing personnel for the task.

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies,

The only thing Giles did wrong was get injured and complain about the leadoff spot. He had a subpar year by his standards but he didn’t have a horrible year. My guess is injuries caused the down year. I could be wrong, but that seems the most likely culprit. My guess is if he’s healthy, he’ll be one of the top 5 2B in the game no matter where he’s playing.

By KC

December 8, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Lew:

I hope you’re right about Chipper’s health. I can’t bring my self to be overly optimistic that he won’t spend any significant period on the DL again, but I certainly hope so.

Hey… wait… isn’t this a bit weird. Aren’t I usually the one expressing optimism, while you respond “I hope you’re right”. Wow, strange. lol!

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

IF ATL were to trade giles to red sox (just a opinion) I think we should at be able to get Wily MO Pena for him, he is a definate offensive upgrade and he can be molded into Andruw’s (IF he goes next year) protege.

By Fed Up

December 8, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

If this team non-tenders Giles rather than trading him for something—I don’t care if it’s a box of balls—I will personally fly to Atlanta and burn all of my Braves memorabilia in front of the Braves office. I invite other long time fans to join me.

By John Adcox

December 8, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

I read the hints DOB is giving us regarding Giles, but I still just can’t imagine that nontendering is the best we can do. If teams are waiting to see what we’ll do before they’re willing to make a move, we shouldn’t blink. If not, well, I still feel we should roll the dice. Especially iof we don’t find a better lead off candidate in the meantime, one that won’t cost LaRoche or James.

John

P.S. Anyone else seeing the [Mike Cross}(http://www.mikecross.com) show at the Red Light tonight?

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Bobby,

Willie Harris is 28 and has a career AVG of .238 and a OBP of .306.

Taveras is 25 and has a career average of .284 and an OBP of .329.

Neither has posted a great OBP, but Taveras is only 25 so he will likely hit in the .280-290 range with a .340-.350 OBP at his peak. Harris isn’t likely to get any better.

By Luke

December 8, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

Kelly Johnson 2b and leadoff?? Are the Braves relying on this? I believe a leadoff hitter is neccessary to dethrone the Mets.

By Josh

December 8, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Any news on any rumors? Hope we’re not done!

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Luke,

I believe good hitters in the top 6 spots in the order are necessary.

By Jon from KY

December 8, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Hey DO’B I got a question for you. Hopefully you answer it because I am curious about the answer. But my question is. If Giles is non-tendered and he becomes a free agent, will he become a Type A or B type free agent and we get draft picks for him or just a free agent and we get nothing for him if we lose him? Thanks in advance if you answer

By Jon from KY

December 8, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

Luke, why you do feel a lead-off hitter is necessary to dethrone the Mets? Please explain your theory on that. Because if you look at the stats for both teams in all offensive categories, you will see that the Braves beat the Mets in all categories except for Triples and doubles. RBI’s, Runs Scored, Batting AVG, On Base Percentage, you name it, we were better than them. our only downfall was our bullpen, which we fixed by re-signing Wickman and trading for Soriano.

Yep, that wasnt a typo, we had a HIGHER OBP than the Mets, so what good would a lead off hitter do??

By Salty

December 8, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Leadoff hitter, leadoff hitter, leadoff hitter….ad naueseum! The Braves will have a leadoff hitter every inning. Sorry…coffee brewed too strong this AM!!!

The 2-hole, is more important (very humble opinion)…either moves the runner along, or starts what the ‘leadoff hitter’ couldn’t accomplish…and with pop to boot. It’s what makes Giles so valuable…amongst others.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Maybe it’s time to put things into their proper perspective and issue a heavy dose of reality. 1.We can’t trade Andruw, Chipper, or Hampton 2. We don’t want to trade LaRoche 3.If JS trades prospects everyone will be pi$$ed because he trades all of our talent 4.We can’t afford Marcus at the reasonable amount of $5-6 million. Does this sum things up pretty well? Now given all of this, people actually think we’re going to run out and get another reliever, a leadoff hitter, a RH pinch hitter who can back up at first, another starting pitcher and a left fielder. Do any of you actually listen to yourselves and read what you post? Do you actually think that half (if that much) of this is going to come to pass? Dream on. We are pretty much where we will be going into the season and I still think we have possibly the best team in the division. Earth to blog.

By Luke

December 8, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun,

Last year we had Giles, Renteria, Jones boys, McCann, and Francouer as top 6 and we didn’t win it, all had average seasons at worst. I believe the fact that we didn’t steal bases hurt as, obviously not as much as the bullpen, but nonetheless a quality leadoff man would make our line-up even more potent!

By Bobby

December 8, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Shaun-My point was that Taveras is not that much different of a player especially at age 25 (Taveras:333OBP,.671OPS vs Harris:.343,.666OPS). So who is to know how Taveras will fare over next few years. I feel certain the White Sox did not anticipate Harris’ recent struggles. Even with all that, their 3yr splits are similar (Taveras:.329OBP,.669OPS vs Harris:.333OBP,.644OPS).

By Chris

December 8, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Why would the Braves make a trade for a reliever when Dan Kolb is still available on the free agent market?

By Rick Roberts

December 8, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Drew: I like your Langerhans/Cormier trade for CJWilson. Wilson has tremendous upside and would step in immmediately as our LH middle relief pitcher. Ryan is from TX; TX needs OF help; and Cormier fits in as a end of the rotation SP or, middle RP. I think TX would make this deal.

By Jupiter Griswald

December 8, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Man!…this DOB dude sucks!…He starts out by giving you a little info associated with baseball, you get all excited and interested, and think damn this guy knows somewhat about the goings and comings of MLB. Then in the very next paragraph, and usually all paragraphs thereafter, abruptly, and totally off subject, this DOB dude comes at you with a load of drivel about some obscure musician or band that most people have never heard of. Damn Man! That kinda has the same effect on a dude as dreaming about have wild sex with Janet Jackson but then waking up to realize that you’re actually fornicating with Janet Reno!…Shocking!…Man this ain’t Rollingstone or Teen Magazine!…Damn DOB, are you a beat writer, or a cheap CD salesman?

By Luke

December 8, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Jon,

I just think we need a quality lead-off hitter who can steal bases (Mets had almost triple the amount of SBs), be patient and draw walks(Mets had more walks, but this is largely becuase of Francouer), and who handles the bat well enough to bunt for a couple hits here and there. I think we can win, with the line-up we have now. But, I think lead-off hitters are crucial to any team’s roster.

By Rick Roberts

December 8, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

NL East predictions as of today: 1. Phillies. They will trade Lieber for the needed OF bat. 2. Braves. Can only move up with a lead off hitter with speed and one more RP. 3. NYMets. No SP although they are trying to address that. Also, BP not that strong. 4. FLA who have great upside. But, will young players suffer ‘SOPH Jinx?’ 5. Way back are the rebuilding NATS

NL West will be closely bunched together and the NL Central is weaker right now. Wild Card to come from NL East?

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Hey, Lew, I don’t think I said they could fill all the holes. If I did, that certainly wasn’t the impression I meant to give. Which is why I’ve always tried to list what I think are the needs in some kind of priority: another LH RP; some pop off the bench; and a solid starter. Doesn’t mean I think that will all get done, just that in a perfect world, they would. Really, I’m TRYING to stay on the planet, honest!

By David-ATL14

December 8, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Shaun, don’t know what world your in? No team is offering even a minor leaguer for Giles. DOB,Bowman,Shanks have all verified this. Yet you laughably call for some team to give the Braves two or three players. Not happening, more than likely he will be non tendered. Go back to that Bill James spin though.

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

Bobby,

My point was Taveras is 25, so he has quite a bit of up-side. He’s posted a good AVG and an okay OBP. He’s just now approaching what should be his peak seasons, so he’s likely to be around a .290 AVG/.350 OBP.

Harris is 28. Chances are we’ve seen what he can do already. Most 28-year-old players don’t improve significantly at 29 and beyond, especially if they haven’t shown any signs of good hitting to begin with.

Context, especially age, is an often underrated aspect in judging players, surprisingly. A lot of people assume a player is going to put up basically the same numbers from age 25-35. But players usually peak in their late 20’s.

By KC

December 8, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Salty: Yeah, thanks. I tried to sign up to access the SeattleTimes forum, but for some reason I’m having problems. Having seen it though, I must say that I like this AJC format much better.

Lew, yes… it looks as though my services are needed on the Mariner’s blog. LOL!

By ernesto

December 8, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

I still don’t understand why we would non-tender Marcus. B/w what we’ll save trading HoRam and non-tendering Reitsma should cover keeping Giles on the books at least until we find a good trade.

By Jon from KY

December 8, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Luke, if you think about it, a lead-off hitter only starts an inning off maybe 2 or 3 times in a game. Is it really that important?? if you want someone that can get a bunt down or possible get base hits with it, put a pitcher in the lead-off spot. There is really not a huge need for it.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

Scoots-Did I mention you by name, Dude? NO. I was merely commenting on the inordinate amount of gibberish that has been bandied about for the past week. I agree with you-a leadoff hitter and a left fielder are not our needs. But you know, people keep going on and on and on about deals that have no chance of happening. No matter what JS does, someone’s going to come out on the blog and blast the crap out of him. If he trades LaRoche, some will have conniptions. If he trades Salty or a prospect, someone will come out and claim he’s giving away our future-again. He can’t win. People are just going to have to realize that there are certain things that we can’t do. That doesn’t mean we have no chance-we do. I still think we will win the division. But it’s getting to the point where those who advocate Carl Crawford are going to have to realize he won’t be playing here. It is time for people to realize that Andruw will play in Atlanta next year (and who knows, maybe beyond next year).It is time for people to realize that Ray King is not going to sign for $1million (Tanyon Sturtze got that much and he can’t even pitch until May). It’s time for people to realize that if we are going to get a different leadoff man we will have to give up something more than Kyle Davies and Langerhans. Insanity is just running rampant and I think many of us need a major reality check. No, it wasn’t you, Dude.

By Fed Up

December 8, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

A great leadoff hitter is critical to a great team. Where would the Mets be without Reyes? A great leadoff hitter sets the table, rattles pitchers, and forces the other team to make errors. A team with no speed in the National League is stuck waiting for the 3-run homer. A team with speed can manufacture a run, even when the opposing pitcher is having a great day. Everybody points out that the Braves didn’t have a prototypical leadoff man in ’95. Believe me, they needed one. Kenny Lofton was killing us in that series. And we had no answer for it. If it wasn’t for Glav’s shutout, we wouldn’t have the one ring we have. Also, consider 1991, if we had had Otis Nixon in that Series, the Braves would have won a ring that year. All those close games, Otis would have found a way to manufacture a run. Speed kills, people.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

KC I just posted on the Seattle forum, then ducked and ran like…the wind! There’s a bit of hornet’s nest there…mostly pointed at the GM. Essentially, they’re basing their thoughts on the views of the experts.

Fact is, Seattle has a starting staff that’s thin; what good does a set up man do if you can’t get to him? Still…I fully plan to spout ‘told you so’ when HoRam starts reeling off good results (not just wins…I, ironically, don’t trust their pen!).

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

David-ATL14,

I guarantee you somebody would offer something for Giles. And if Giles is non-tendered, he will have no problem finding a job and probably getting at least in the $4 million range. When did any of those guys say no one is offering even a minor leaguer for Giles? They may not be offering the players the Braves want, but I guarantee that someone would offer something for Giles if the opportunity came up.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

KC Agreed on format, too. This is far and away better. You can’t switch from music, pie, baseball, toes and back again!

By Rod

December 8, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Here’s the deal. In today’s MLB, the Braves have morphed into the NCAA version of a “Mid-Major” team, or those teams that can be good but not compete in the $$$ league with the Yankees, Bosox and others.

The best that a Braves fan can hope for then, is overachievement by young players to win the day. Minnesota comes to mind as a good example of this.

My point is that LaRoche should be moved NOW for some young players, preferably having one of them a fire balling pitcher. LaRoche may very well have had his career year in 2005 and stands a good chance of regressing back to his .250BA, 15HRs, 65RBI former self. His trade value will never be higher and keeping him will do little to elevate the Braves to a higher level.

Get comfortable with the fact that the Braves are no longer an elite team in MLB unless they start spending elite $$$ again.

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

A speedy leadoff hitter is overrated. To beat a dead horse, the Braves scored the 2nd most runs in the NL last season without a speedy leadoff guy. The Oakland A’s scored the 2nd most runs in the AL a few years back and their leader in steals had single digits! Speed is nice, but it’s overrated. It’s better to have hitters who are good at avoiding outs and hitting for power first and foremost, then you worry about speed. Or worry about speed on defense, where it’s more important.

By KC

December 8, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

FutureBravesGM:

FB-GM, I think you’ve misunderstood me. I don’t recall ever asking the question you described. The only thing I said about Andruw is that there’s a possibility that Liberty could allow a little more spending, which obviously would help in the Adruw pursuit, but I’m sure it would still be a very tight (financial) squeeze to try and fit Andruw into the Braves plans for the future, beyond 07’.

Let me restate my thoughts on the new ownership thing…

Liberty Media is a corporation, and as such, they view the Braves as an asset. As an annual profit center, a MLB franchise is generally a lousy investment. HOWEVER, many MLB franchises (especially teams like the Braves) have been appreciating at a pretty nice clip in recent years. When Time Warner took ownership of the Braves several years ago, the value of this franchise was estimated between 300-350 million. Just a few years later, they are about to sell the team to Liberty Media for 460 million. So while they may have lost a few million or so a season (if you believe those reports), it doesn’t really matter considering they’re about to “flip” this team at a 100-160 million dollar profit.

The financial benefit of a franchise like the Braves is not in owning it, but in selling it. Liberty Media is buying this franchise for 460 million. If they turn back around and sell it in a few years as most people expect, they’ll likely have a number of bids in the 500-600 million range. It is largely the success of this team that has made it such a valuable (and steadily appreciating) franchise. So I believe that it’s very much in Liberty’s interest to help assure the continued success of this team, as that will help them get the asking price up where they want it should they sell the franchise in a few years.

Here’s the bottom line, the way I see it:

There should be plenty of (monetary) motivation for Liberty to make sure the Atlanta Braves remain a proud franchise, if in fact they plan to resell it in a few years. Unfortunately, as long the Braves are able to stay competitive with an 80 million dollar payroll… Liberty has little reason to change anything. The good news is that if 80 million drops from the middle of the pack in MLB payrolls, to say… the bottom 1/3, it’s not hard for me to picture them OK’ing a little more spending in order to keep the shine on this franchise. And under no circumstances would it make sense for them to slash payroll any further. I’d bet the farm that they’ll be no more cost-cutting

My prediction is that Liberty will either keep payroll where it is, or loosen the purse strings just a bit. I wouldn’t expect a 95-100 million dollar payroll, and I’d be even more surprised if it drops below 80.

By yurtle the turtle

December 8, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

I have to consider this a very good trade, one that has Schuerholz’s name all over it. I can’t wait for the AOL/Time Warner sale so as to take the salary cap the Braves have and, maybe, move it up an inch or so. I miss the days when we could add a big name and make a splash in the Winter Meetings. It made looking forward to Spring Training all that more delicable. At the same time, I’m glad we didn’t over spent for marginal talent like Meche to the Royals or Matthews, jr. to the Angels. Those contracts are ridiculous.

Anyway, at least we did something. We could use another starter (who couldn’t) and a left fielder (with solid offensive numbers).

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Fed Up,

The Braves scored more runs than the Mets, without anything close to a Jose Reyes. (The problem was the Braves allowed more runs.)

If speed is so important, why is there no correlation between speed and run scoring?

Again, look at the A’s of the late 1990’s-early 2000’s. They consistently were in the top four in runs but had horrible team speed.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Speed and being a leadoff hitter are mutually exclusive…why should they be lumped? As quoted many times…’you can’t steal first base’!

By thrill55

December 8, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Seattle Mariner fan here.

Back at work today after calling in sick on Thursday.

Rafael Soriano-for-Horacio Ramirez may be Seattle’s worst trade since sending Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek to Boston for Heathcliff Slocumb in 1997.

It sucks to be a Mariner fan today.

Any truth to the rumor that the Braves were likely to non-tender Horacio Ramirez on Tuesday if he were not traded?

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Salty,

There are more important things than speed, even for a leadoff hitter. Speed is nice and the ideal is for a leadoff hitter to have a variety of skills, but speed is not a necessity.

I’d much rather have a guy who can hit like crazy with average speed than a guy who is an average hitter but can run like the wind blows.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Thrill Not even a close comparison…that ‘97 trade is one for the ages. Don’t be too quick to write HoRam off; he has his supporters here who will monitor and scream ‘told you so’ without hesitation next season.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun Exactly…and a smart baserunner over a speed merchant as well.

By KC

December 8, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

I just made my best attempt to alleviate Mariners fan’s despondence on the SeattleTimes Mariners blog. I don’t know if I helped them any, but I tried.

I really do believe that if HoRam is healthy, BOTH teams will be glad they made this trade.

By gotigers72

December 8, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

I like Kelly Johnson as a hitter, but I don’t know about him being a leadoff hitter. I also don’t think moving him to 2nd would be a good idea. He came up through the minors as a SS, and made an enormous amount of errors. I believe it’s best that he’s left in the OF.

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Salty,

It’s amazing how much speed is overrated by so many on this blog even though there have been several teams that you can point to that scored plenty of runs without a speedy leadoff guy.

By KC

December 8, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Been chatting in the Mariners forum, and yes, I can hereby officially confirm that Mariners nation is P!SSED!!!

By KC

December 8, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Salty, did you come out of the Mariners’ forum in one piece? Just wanted to make sure you got out okay… no man left behind! lol

By Fed Up

December 8, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

The problem with stats is that they don’t tell the whole story. How many times has Carlos Beltran been served a meatball because Reyes was on first, making like he was going to steal second? How many times did a pitcher get rattled when Furcal hit a triple and scored on a sac fly or worse an error. There’s a reason why speed is one of the five tools. Of course, speed alone is not enough. But speed, a good eye, and a bunch of slap hits are what you what from a leadoff man. That’s why Giles was so bad at batting leadoff: average speed, poor plate instincts, and an overwhelming desire to swing for the fences rather than get on base by any mean necessary. I admire Giles’ grit and his defensive play, and I think he’s a decent No. 2 or No. 7 hitter, but he was horrible at leadoff. And yes, I would agree that the leadoff position was a minor problem compared to our toxic dump of a bullpen, but it is important. Right now there is no one on our roster who can be inked in at leadoff. And that’s a problem. It’s not as big a problem as non-tendering a good second baseman, but it’s a problem.

By KC

December 8, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

thrill: No. Horacio was far too valuable to non-tender and cut loose… obviously, because if his ability weren’t highly thought of, the Braves never would have fetched Soriano for him.

I just posted something on the SeattleTimes Mariners forum (“Horacio Ramirez is better than you think”)… check it out when you get a chance. Really, despite what even AJC columnist and the moderator of this forum, David O’Brien will tell you… Horacio Ramirez is a very good young lefty. It’s just a matter of health with him.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Shaun: A team has to play to its’ strengths…if you have speed, then figure out a way to use it. However, in baseball, there are so many legitimate strengths to capitalize on, focusing on one will just screw a team up.

Look at the Mariners bemoaning the trade. They have little a weak starting staff, yet are crying over Soriano. What good is he if the starters can’t get the game to him…with a lead?

By thrill55

December 8, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Thanks, KC … your statistics-filled post on the Seattle Times board was enlightening. You were not deserving of some of the rude replies.

I hope everything works out for both teams.

By Shaun

December 8, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Fed Up,

If Furcal and Reyes are worth so much offensively, why did the Braves score more runs this year without Furcal and why did the Braves outscore the Mets?

Giles wasn’t “so bad” at leadoff. He wasn’t comfortable there and had a subpar season by his standards, but he actually wasn’t bad. The Braves scored more runs with him at leadoff than a lot of other teams scored with more “prototypical” leadoff hitters.

By Rosalyn

December 8, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Oh no, theyah aftah mah Jimmah, sayun that he is ah tryun to change histrah with that theyah Apartheid book that he dun wrote. They ah also sayun that mah Jimmah plagiarized ahlot of tha matearal in that theyah book ah his, and that Jimmah just flat made up ahlot ah what he sayud. Why that theyah is just awful. I tried to tell Jimmah that it was awful hawd to have apartheid ovah theyah wheyah theyah ain’t no white folks ah livin, but Jimma wouldun’t listen to mah. I think what is ah happnin is that Jimmah didn’t do ah darn thing when he was presdent, so nowah that he ain’t presdent no mowah he is ah tryun ta make up fer it. Jimmah is ah all round good fellah I reckun, ceptun fer that time he were ah lustun in his hawt. I asked Jimmah ah while back just what or who was it that he were ah lustun aftah, and to mah sahprise Jimmah told me that he had been ah lustun over ah photograph of that theyah “Ladabud” Johnson! Why that made me mad as ah hawnit, but Jimmah said that ah lyah is just as bad as ah lustah, so he was just ah tellun tha truth about it. I forgive Jimmah fer that theyah, but I just can’t forgive him fer be’un sah damn stupid!

By It's about the pitching, stupid

December 8, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Nice move with Soriano, especially since it cost so little to get him. But that should only be the start. I still think the Braves need another proven starter (in case Hampton isn’t what he once was or completely healthy and if James was just a fluke) and at least one more dependable reliever in the bullpen. The offense isn’t the problem. The Braves were second in the NL in runs last year (if my memory is correct) and Giles didn’t really contribute that much. Move him, get a little more pitching and let’s see where that puts us.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Lew, roger that…I just saw a good many of my recent points in your post, and thought that maybe I had overstated somewhat, my man. Hey, it’s all good, and it’s good to see someone float reality in front of us once in a while, anywho!

By Salty

December 8, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

KC As mentioned earlier…I posted and ran! I guess I’ll tiptoe back in and see what’s stirred up…most likely by you!!! ;-0

By KC

December 8, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

Salty: yeah, a couple of guys our getting agitated with me for “insulting the intelligence of Mariners fans by trying to justify this trade”. They’re pretty testy right now.

By Glass Half Full

December 8, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Folks, you know another trade is likely before opening day. I’m just as anxious as any of you for another move and something will certainly be done to address the team’s needs.

By KC

December 8, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

thrill: Thanks man. It’s not like you guys are in the Braves’ division or even in the same league, so I sincerely wish your team well. I hope the trade works out well for you guys as well. Again, if HoRam stays healthy, I’m confident that it will.

By texbravesfan

December 8, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Hey Thrill55, Shaun is right, I am one of the believers that Ramirez can turn into a solid #3 guy at best if healthy and can easily win 12 to 15 games a year consistently. Yall needed starting pitching and got it and we needed a setup man and got him so we both satisfied our needs. I think we need to get something in return for Giles and would really like for JS to look at that Angels deal again for LaRoche so that we could get a leadoff hitter in Figgins and still keep Giles to bat in the second spot and move Renteria to the 5th spot. That would be quite a lineup and stick Thorman/Kotchman in the place of LaRoche in the 8th spot.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

KC Well…I slipped back over…that was a mistake. The same guy that fired across your bow darn near tore my head off and poured acid down my throat! I think I’ll avoid another visit until next summer, then have two boards to scream ‘told you so’ at…if only cause actin’ like a 6 year old is one way to feel younger!

By Carolina Lady

December 8, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

Salty, you kind person, what is the link to where you posted? Couldn’t locate your posts.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Damn it’s cold in Atlanta.

Anyway, Hillbilly, just read your post about Lucero. Good stuff, ain’t it? That song you quoted from was “My Best Girl.” Is is the real raw, acoustic version? I’ve got it as a bonus cut on “The Attic Tapes” CD, which you should get _ great low-fi, as country as they ever were (they’re more DBTs now, less pure country).

By KC

December 8, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Over in the Mariner’s blog… they are really upset because of this ESPN/Keith Law report that the Braves were going to simply cut him loose if the he wasn’t traded.

I am absolutely positive that this report is a crock, and I’ve tried to reassure them of that… but at this point, I think they’re believing what they want to believe… that Baldelli (the Seattle GM) should be taken outside and kicked to death.

DOB: Could you please comment on this Keith Law report? Again, I’m positive it’s a crock, but I’d love to hear it from something of a Braves insider.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Damn it’s cold in Atlanta.

Anyway, Hillbilly, just read your post about Lucero. Good stuff, ain’t it? That song you quoted from was “My Best Girl.” Is is the real raw, acoustic version? I’ve got it as a bonus cut on “The Attic Tapes” CD, which you should get _ great low-fi, as country as they ever were (they’re more DBTs now, less pure country). First thing they recorded, I believe.

It’s also on their self-titled debut full-length CD, “Lucero.”

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

Thrill55, if you’re still hanging out here at the Braves/Man in Black: You guys need to slam a couple more grande javas and ask yourselves: How did we lose Soriano? How did Schuerholz do this to us?

No, no … kidding, dude. We kid here a lot.

If Horacio can get back to the career path projected of him after his 12-4 rookie season, say win 15-16 games, all of a sudden he’s a $12 mill pitcher in this market (look at the Lillys, Meches, etc, making eight figures annually now with career records around .500. Horacio’s far better than .500 career, right. OK, then.)

Say, while you’re here: What do you think of my boy Nick Collison with the Sonics? (I’m a KU grad).

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 8, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

No, DOB, the version I’ve got sounds like a touched up version of the song. Probably the version on the self-titled album. MAN, that’s some good stuff. Can’t wait til my “connection” sends me the cds he promised…Anyway, it’s cold as a Well-diggers * right now in Arkansas, too. Low of 17 last night. That’s super-cold for us. Don’t know how I’m gonna make it on a deer stand in the morning.

By KC

December 8, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

DOB: Would you agree that this ESPN report (that the Braves would simply have cut HoRam loose had they not traded him) doesn’t make a whole lot of sense?

By monty

December 8, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

FOr everyone who thinks we need to deal La Roche to the Angels for Chone Figgins, wake up and smell the coffee. Let me ask you a question. If the AJC just reported that JS made a deal for a left fielder who was the 2nd or 3rd best hitter in the league the 2nd half of last year, with 3o homers and 100 runs batted in, you would all be peeing in your pants with delight. Well in a sense, by NOT trading La Roche, we have that guy. Lets get rid of a potential 40 homerun guy with 100 rbi’s and gold glove ability to get a guy who can steal bases. Yeh, that makes sense. No it doesn’t! Would I love to have Figgins leading off? Heck Yeh! But not at the expense of a guy whose career is on the rise. Give the angels half of our bullpen, but not La Roche.

By Matthew

December 8, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly:

Got down to 12 in NE Ark last night. That qualifies as too freakin’ cold for me. As a teacher, I naturally pray for snow to accompany every cold snap.

Some things never change…

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 8, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Oy - somebody mentioned Baez. That is one of the few trades that JS has made that, in retrospect, he got taken on. At the time, it seemed sound, as we needed a solid set up guy, and we got Aybar, whom I understood to have real potential. Baez did ok, but, in my mind, wasn’t worth it, given the short amount of time he played for us, and his limited opportunities. Aybar did ok filling in for Chipper, Giles, etc. But, what stunned me is the guy can burn on the base paths, but (and I know someone will correct me if I’m wrong here), did not have ONE stolen base while with the Braves. His OBP wasn’t all that great either, I don’t think (not a stat seeker - again, if I’m wrong, somebody help a brother out). We gave up Betemit, who, admittedly didn’t set the world on fire for the Bums. But he played well, and was a pretty good clutch hitter, with power, when called upon, and when he got some playing time. He was a much better fielder than Aybar is, though. Not perfect, but better, with fewer errors and a better arm. Wonder if the Bums would consider a “do over”, “mulligan”, etc?

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Rod, I can fully understand if you, like some others, simply don’t like Adam LaRoche as a player _ his demeanor, his May bonehead error (repeat, May).

The problem I have is

when you try to rationalize that dislike with a post like this: “My point is that LaRoche should be moved NOW for some young players, preferably having one of them a fire balling pitcher. LaRoche may very well have had his career year in 2005 and stands a good chance of regressing back to his .250BA, 15HRs, 65RBI former self. His trade value will never be higher and keeping him will do little to elevate the Braves to a higher level.”

Uh, where to start? WHAT are you talking about? LaRoche IS a young player _ 27, with three seasons in the majors, up for arbitration for the first time, has earned barely $1 mill in his career. Come on, how young do you want your team _ all three-and-under guys, like last year’s Marlins?

You say he “stands a good chance of regressing to his .250BA, 15HRs, 65RBI former self.” Really? Based on what? Which player are you thinking of whose career pattern did that, who went from ranking in the TOP 10 in the NL with OPS (and all nine other guys are damn good players) to going to .250-15-65.

From .285-32-90 to .250-15-65 at age 27, huh?

And how did you come up with .250-15-65 as being indicative of his former self, exactly? Are you basing ANYTHING you say on facts, or just all emotions?

Adam LaRoche missed nearly two months of his rookie season in 2004 and played on 110 games (because of a separated shoulder). He hit .278 with 27 doubles, 13 homers and 45 RBIs in 110 games that year (projects to .278 with 37 doubles, 19 homers and 61 RBIs in 150 games.

In 2005, his first FULL season, he hit .259 with 20 homers, 78 RBIs and a .775 OPS in 141 games and 451 at-bats.

In 2006, his second FULL season and his first in which he got to hit against lefties (after late June, at least), he hit .285 with 32 homers and 90 RBIs in 149 games and 492 at-bats.

So I’m just curious, Rod, would you please tell me how you look at those numbers and come up with .250-15-65 as his “former self”?

Seriously, I just want to know the thought process there, what you are basing this reasons, astute observation on? I’d just like to know, because maybe I’m missing something and I’d like to know what it is.

Anytime you’re ready, please respond.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

DOB, Who are the top suitors for Marcus Giles? If he were to get traded.

By Arkansas Hillbilly

December 8, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Does anybody else find it difficult to read a normal post after reading and interpreting the southern drawl of a “Rosalyn” epic. Maybe its my Arkansas education, but it takes me a while for my eyes and brain to adapt from one to the other. Great, Great stuff Rosalyn. Lovin’ it.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Salty, you wrote this: “When he’s hot…he sizzles; when he’s not…he’s a ‘K’ machine (quoting an earlier post). Does his swing bring to mind another player who had a solid career…I’m clueless.”

You wrote that about LaRoche. But couldn’t that apply to another rather productuve Braves hitter? Andruw, perhaps?

By BravesFaninRockies

December 8, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

DOB,

You said:

If Horacio can get back to the career path projected of him after his 12-4 rookie season, say win 15-16 games, all of a sudden he’s a $12 mill pitcher in this market (look at the Lillys, Meches, etc, making eight figures annually now with career records around .500. Horacio’s far better than .500 career, right. OK, then.)

Reports have the Cubs signing Jason Marquis for 3 yrs, $28MM. ?!?!?

Our entire staff looks like a bargain now … even Huddy.

By KC

December 8, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

DOB: I hate to keep bugging you about this, but do you have any thoughts on that Keith Law report? It’s really bugging me.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

On behalf of the comment you made about laroche DOB, Andrian Beltre had a season to remember that he has yet to duplicate. But that is just for arguements sake, I think laroche is a good player, he just needs to look like he enjoys the game.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Another player that has dropped, J.D. Drew, remember when he played for atlanta

By Lew

December 8, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

KC-I don’t think the Mariners’ fans are buying your logic, Dude. You might want to keep a low profile-or at least realize that their GM’s name is Bavasi-not Baldelli (outfielder for the Rays). Even then I don’t see them as believing you and I sure wouldn’t want to be their GM, whatever his name.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Jupiter, just saw this pearl: ‘That kinda has the same effect on a dude as dreaming about have wild sex with Janet Jackson but then waking up to realize that you’re actually fornicating with Janet Reno!…Shocking!…Man this ain’t Rollingstone or Teen Magazine!…Damn DOB, are you a beat writer, or a cheap CD salesman?”

And I have one question: Janet Jackson? Really? I mean, OK, but it’s 2006, almost 2007. Not even Beyonce?

By Lew

December 8, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Jeff-I really don’t give a damn if he looks bored as tears, as long as he keeps hitting those tape measure HR’s and keeps knocking in runs. For that matter, he can think of hunting all he wants. It really hasn’t affected his fielding despite what people think. Didn’t he have one less error than the Gold Glove winner?

By Jon from KY

December 8, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

LOL, that was funny

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

I am starting to think that we should get rid of Adam Laroche. He is really reminding me of a J.D. Drew of old times. (J.D. stats 2004- HR-31 RBI-93 OBP- .436 SLG- .570 OPS- 1.006 /Adam 2006- HR- 32 RBI- 90 OBP- .354 SLG- .561 OPS- .915. Looks similar to me, and I think that Casey Kotchman can definately fill the Adam Laroche, need, he is a definate power potential player. I say trade laroche for chone and casey.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

DOB Yep, Andruw’s like that as well…results-wise.

I couldn’t recall a player with a LaRoche-type swing that had a lengthy career…figured one of the ‘blog nation’ would. Curiosity, more than anything…I’m a LaRoche fan…even when others were pushing him off the caboose.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Laroche had one less with 12 less starts, and 91 innings less. Not to mention the Gold Glove winner was also injusred part of the year.

By Scalp 'Em Braves

December 8, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

Salty: Roachie’s swing reminds me of David Justice - those who have analyzed the two swings more closely than I may beg to differ. But, both had that long, fluid motion, both were left handed, and both knocked the crap out of the ball when they connected properly. If memory serves me correctly, Justice had a pretty long, and successful career, wherever he was.

By mariner

December 8, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

JS did clean Bavasi’s clock on the Soriano deal. Horrible deal from the M’s perspective. Bavasi has wrecked the roster, and the M’s are poised to lose 90 games for the fourth year in a row. I had hoped JS could get Soriano and he did. His next target should be Ichiro who is in the final year of his contract. He moved to center at the end of the season and would be a great replacement for Andruw and be a terrific lead-off hitter. This isn’t wishful thinking, I don’t believe. The losing is killing Ichiro and he will not resign with the Mariners if they have another losing season. He’s a great player and would fit in well with the Braves in CF, lead-off, and payroll as well if AJ leaves in free agency.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

I also think atl should trade away Chipper, too much for his deteriorating talent.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

Lew- Lets not forget that you can afford to make erros with 49 hrs and 137 rbis

By MS

December 8, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

The guy has the purest swing on the team, without question. DOB, if you asked Bobby to name the sweetest swing on this team, wouldn’t he say Laroche with no hesitation??

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

MS-Bobby! How about Pendelton.. he would be the one to know.Bobby needs to retire, call Girardi to be the manager.

By MadduxRules

December 8, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

I just read an article from the St. Pete times that says the Rays stopped and talked to the Braves again before leaving the meetings. The Rays GM was quoted as saying he as a few interesting things to discuss internally as to what might be the best choice. They were talking about Baldelli…

By Rosalynn

December 8, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

That post earliah is not from me. I suppose it was that Jackaasss boy Stinka. Jimma is havin’ the Secret Service look into it. Mayba Jimma will have them wrestle that boy to the ground and he will wet his pants.

By mariner

December 8, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

JS did clean Bavasi’s clock on the Soriano deal. Horrible deal from the M’s perspective. Bavasi has wrecked the roster, and the M’s are poised to lose 90 games for the fourth year in a row. I had hoped JS could get Soriano and he did. His next target should be Ichiro who is in the final year of his contract. He moved to center at the end of the season and would be a great replacement for Andruw and be a terrific lead-off hitter. This isn’t wishful thinking, I don’t believe. The losing is killing Ichiro and he will not resign with the Mariners if they have another losing season. He’s a great player and would fit in well with the Braves in CF, lead-off, and payroll as well if AJ leaves in free agency.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Jeff-My point is that LaRoche, despite what you may think, is an excellent defensive first baseman. You compare him to JD Drew, yet you seem to gloss over the facts that 1. Drew Had played 7 years after playing for the Braves 2.Drew was two years older than LaRoche is now 3.Drew Had an extremely up and down career to that point (to state it mildly) 4.LaRoche has steadily improved each of his 3 seasons and 4.Drew is a complete and utter a$$ 5.La Roche isn’t. Your comparison is faulty. I won’t try to convince you where you’re wrong about LaRoche in general, though. You wouldn’t believe me anyway.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

Jeff-You can make one less error than Pujols if you hit 32HR and knock in 90 runs, too.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

MS-Maybe second best. Don’t forget McCann.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 8, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

betemit had bat speed. real bat speed. laroche has a swing that reminds this journalist of david justice - just as scalp’em pointed out. giles has a swing much like billy casper. prior to developing this swing giles was a doubles machine and if he could return to that form he would be incredible. his stock has really plumetted, hasn’t it? now, will js find another left handed pitcher? this roster will likely change some more. just correcting wicky’s weight would be like adding another tony pena to the team.

By JC FROM UT

December 8, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

All the “trade LaRoache” talk really has to stop. The guy is young, affordable,good in the clubhouse plays gold glove defense and is becoming a good power hitter. Yes he does go on streaks of wiffing, but all power hitters do, and we all have to remember that his glove is one of if not the best in NL which saves who knows how many runs per season. The player that needs to be traded is Hudson. I’m not a Hudson basher, in fact I was very happy when JS “stole” him from Oakland. The reason he should be traded is because of salary. He makes too much money next year for what he brings to the table. Yes, he is affordable now but it is a lot better to trade a guy too early than too late and with the market the way it is Hudson should bring in a qulity return. Houston is dying for starting pitching and Pettite just signed with NYY. Why not call them and see what kind of trade can be made. I don’t mean trade him for Willy Taveras, but how about Chris Sampson and another prospect. Then the money save from Hudson can be used to lock up the young core players (McCann Francouer LaRoach) before they get into the arbitration proccess. JS needs to start working in the same way other small market GMS do and like John Hart did when he turned Cleveland around.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

I dont know AJ’s swing when he drills himself into the dirt (not when he fall down) is a pretty cool sight….reminds me of old baseball players like mantle. just me…I could be off base.

By Rosalynn

December 8, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

We had a little donka on the fahm in Plains and that donka was a copy-cat much like the little donka on this blog. both donkas are dull-witted and have no original thoughts. that’s why the little donka on the fahm was put to sleep. the donka on this blog just likes to blog usin’ otha bloggas’ names and ideahs. that donka is a sad little donka with no redeemin’ qualities. that little donka is comin’ at us with all kinds of names and still he is just a stinka donka. Jimma is havin’ the Secret Service track down this stinka donka and we shall see what kind of donka we ah dealin’ with on the dob/braves/maninblack/nodonka/blog.

By GermanBravesFan

December 8, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

What ever happened to John Foster - wasn’t he a lefty in the bullpen?

By journalist jimmy smith

December 8, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

billy, andruw’s current swing is an injury waiting to happen. if he continues to swing like that and falls back on his ankles he better switch to high-top sneakers (know what high-top sneakers are?) like u.s. keds. oh, the humanity! no one knows what u.s. keds are anymore! pretty sure bob has some big yellow shoes on right now - but not u.s. keds. anyway, andruw has so much power and is such a gifted athlete - if he could again control his swing he would probably hit more homeruns - though it is hard to imagine they would go so far. let’s hope andruw can avoid injury with this new habit (bad habit as far as this journalist is concerned). remember when he was batting almost exactly like pujols? where did that go?

By Mitchie-san

December 8, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

ROCCO ROCCO ROCCO! It may happen and it will be awsome!

By Mitchie-san

December 8, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

Read all about it on braves.com. ROCCO!

By Ricardo

December 8, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Go to the Braves pg and read the article about Badelli for Salty, Escobar and Davies. Is this going to happen?

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 8, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

I was gonna post the same info about the article on the Braves site on porn star Rocco Baldelli. Dooohhh!

By Mitchie-san

December 8, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

He’s cheap, talented, and young. We need this guy bad. He is someone who can grow with the team , not a one year then walk guy. Davies? Bye. Salty, hate to see ya go, but we got no where for ya to play, Yunel? well him leaving will propably suck, but hey, you wanna make an omlet…..

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 8, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

Cormier doesn’t particularly inspire confidence, but his numbers on the year were better than Davies’. Kyle was horrendous before and after his injury. Problem with Cormier…too many BB.

By marty

December 8, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Trade Andrew & Chipper Jones. That would free up alot of money. P.S. Get ride of bobby cox also & john Scholerholtz. Even more money you would save.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 8, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

I say keep Escobar because Edgar will be leaving in 2 years. McCann will be behind the plate for years and if LaRoche has another year like 2006, he’ll be a fixture at 1st in the post-Andruw and even Chipper era.

By Glass Half Full (GHF)

December 8, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

The wheels are turning already…”Roc’s Cocks” (idiot fans dressed either as roosters or penises…take your pick).

By Jupiter Griswald

December 8, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

DOB I’m “old school” bruh…can’t bring myself to think about fornicating with Beyonce…would make me feel like one of them pedophile dudes!

By CRYING-BRAVE

December 8, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

I NEED BOBBY COX,OR THE GREAT PITCHING COACH ROGER MCDOWELL TO EXPLAIN TO ME HOW A SET-UP MAN WHO HAS HAD MAJOR ELBOW SURGERY IS WORTH ANYTHING TO THE BRAVE’S? WITHOUT A STARTER TO GET YOU TO THE 7TH-8TH INNING JUST WHAT GOOD IS HE TO US,SO CALLED PITCHING-COACH MCDUMMY STATED IN TODAYS A-J-C,THAT HE THOUGHT THE STARTER THE BRAVE’S GAVE AWAY FOR THIS CRIPPLED SET-UP MAN COULD WIN 15-20 GAMES,EVEN THE K.C.ROYAL’S ARE SINING BETTER AND HEALTHER PLAYERS THAN THE BRAVES! HAVE WE FALLEN THAT LOW, AND CHEAP.

By thrill55

December 8, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this

Bavasi has wrecked the roster, and the M’s are poised to lose 90 games for the fourth year in a row.

mariner, how can the Seattle Mariners “lose 90 games for the fourth year in a row” when they lost only 84 games last year?

In fact, the Seattle Mariners lost only one game more than the Atlanta Braves did (and Seattle played in a far tougher division than Atlanta did).

However, I certainly agree that “JS did clean Bavasi’s clock on the Soriano deal.”

By Louis Vales

December 8, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

All this talk about a team that has won one World Championship in last 48 years. Of course Falcons and Hawks have none and nobody cares about silly hockey team. Hasn’t Georgia started spring practice yet??

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 8, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

I can live with Davies and Salty leaving because LaRoche is the real deal I think. And even if he isn’t Thorman and Jurries are there for insurance. Davies is somewhat expendable only because Cormier and Villeareal could probably fill in for the 5th slot and Lerew is still down in the minors. But Escobar is risky to me. Renteria will only be here for another two years at most. Escobar is the SS of the future and to a man everyone says this kid is a star. I understand that Elvis Andrus has the same tag so at some point one of the two will have to go. But, as good as Baldelli is and can be, is he worth Davies, Salty, and Escobar. I don’t think so when you consider Salty and Escobar are two of the top prospects in all of baseball and both should yield huge returns by themselves. Either the Rays throw in Kasmir, Delmon Young, or Cantu which I doubt they will do any of the three or either Salty or Escobar get taken off the table. I think that the Rays probably want Salty more than they do Escobar since they have plenty of guys in the middle infield.

If this is indeed true and the negotiations have some legs to it, I think JS should offer T.Pena or Orr to replace Escobar and demand another player along with Baldelli.

As for Giles, I think the Braves have been painted into a corner. From a business standpoint non-tendering Giles is a great move if they can’t trade him. From a pr standpoint it is potential nightmare. For one Giles has given his heart and soul to this team and never been a problem. Yes, he publicly stated his displeasure for leading off but tempered it by saying he had to do what he had to do and he would give it his all, which he did. It would be a horrible way to treat him. Secondly, what would that look like to the other players. They all know Giles is a hustler and in a lot of ways is the heart and soul of the team. That would not look good. The old “this is a business” line would not be able to cover it. I feel for JS because he is in between a rock and a mountain.

By MBATL

December 8, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

Been away from the blog for a while, but man this thing is rockin’… great to see all the regulars still around!

Escobar is caught in the middle, IMO. Unless we’re gonna trade Edgar, Escobar sits on the bench or in AAA for 2 more years. (he’s a recent signee, but played a few years of Cuban pro ball, and is about 24 now, I think)

We’ve got Elvis Andrus, the better prospect, to step in at SS in a couple of years, so I say go ahead with trading Escobar unless we’re gonna dump Edgar, which I doubt.

Trading Davies hurts; not because he’s so great, but just because he’s a known commodity and we don’t have much depth at SP beyond him. So, I don’t know… but won’t fall on my sword if we trade him to get Baldelli.

When AJ leaves (and he will, unless a Rockefellar buys the team), we’ll need a guy like Rocco in center, and then we can look for a LF with some power… that’s not too hard.

Can’t believe that if no one wants to trade for Giles, and we’re not prepared to pay him the reported $5+ mil, we can’t negotiate a deal that is somewhat backloaded to pay the bulk after the AJ, CJ, and Hampton contracts are up. $4mil for ‘07, sliding up for the next 3 or 4 years as we lose some commitments. Baseball contracts are guaranteed, so what does Giles have to lose? I like the guy, and sure don’t want to see us just give him away over a measly couple ‘a million.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

Couple things I noticed:

KC: I’d bet the farm that they’ll be no more cost-cutting
If Liberty does cut the payroll, there won’t be a farm to bet. Just kidding. I agree with your assesment of the situation. The reports I read on this pending sale make the dollar value of the franchise even higher than 400 million. Somewhere, and I can’t remember where but wouldn’t be surprised if it was on the AJC, I read that due to the tax free status of this deal, it would boost the value of the franchise sale to the equivalent of 600 million plus. Because of this, Bud the Dud is really pushing for the deal to go through.
Also, Liberty owns other sports franchises, or has in the past, and they ran them fairly well from what I can remember. So I’d expect similar management concerning the Braves. Plus, they want to keep the same management over the Braves, so JS and all, should still be in place to wisely spend the money, however much it is, when the time comes.
Having said all that, I still wish it was a private owner instead of a corporation, but this Corp doesn’t sound too terrible. At least, it sounds slightly better than TW. Maybe not much, but TW is pretty much the bottom of the barrel so it’d be real hard for them to sink lower.

Payne: Absolutely no relation between speed and runs? How did Ricky Henderson set the record for most runs scored in a career? Just lucky I guess.
I’ll agree that you don’t have to have a fast guy leading off, but it most certainly does help if you do. I keep reading your posts rejecting a leadoff guy and I get the point. The Braves did well last season without a “true” leadoff guy. But they could have done even better with one. You’re into OBP, Giles Leadoff OBP was lacking. If we are to make a move for a replacement for Giles, then we might as well look through the options for the one that is fast and a great leadoff man. No sense in leaving a hole there if you don’t have to. But I’m with JS, pitching first. If we restock all our pitching and get that shored up, then we can set our sites to finding the perfect leadoff man.

By Carolina Lady

December 8, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

Hey, MBATL! Good to see you back. “measly couple ‘a million.” You’re absolutely right. Hang on a minute - let me go check petty cash!

(Isn’t it amazing the amounts of money these people through around??? Wow, that much would even pay the electic bill!) :-)))))

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

CRYING-BRAVE,

If you can answer this question you then can answer you own:

Explain to me why a starter who has major elbow surgery is worth anything to the Braves?

As much as I like old Horcio, how manay times has he made it to the 8th inning compared with the amount of saves and holds blown last year?

By The Grinch

December 8, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this

Hey KC, head on back to the Mariners blog and talk up how good Hudson is. You do it like nobody else, my man. Maybe they’d give us Ichiro and a prospect. :-)

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

Mariner, you wrote: “His next target should be Ichiro who is in the final year of his contract. He moved to center at the end of the season and would be a great replacement for Andruw and be a terrific lead-off hitter. This isn’t wishful thinking, I don’t believe.”

If that’s not wishful thinking, nothing is.

By Tyler

December 8, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

Trade Giles now (his salary will open up quite a bit) for a good starting pitcher (Maybe someone under the radar who is still a quality pitcher), and fill the second base position with Prado.

Rotation:

Smoltz Hampton Hudson ? James

Pen (standouts):

Soriano Boyer McBride Sturtze Wickman

If the pitcher is solid then our rotation is one of the best in teh league. I would love to bring Millwood back to solve this problem. Our bullpen has immediately become complete.

If we get Baldelli, our offense will be outstanding:

Prado (2b) Renteria (ss) Chipper (3b) Andruw (cf) LoRoche (1b) McCann (c) Franceour (rf) Baldelli (lf) pitcher

For the love of god, I dont even know how to put the batting order at teh end of the lineup, we could have Baldelli or Franceour batting 8th!

By Big Daddy

December 8, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

Marty, when you write things like you just did how do you think that makes you look?

Neither of the Jones boys can be traded without their approval and all John S. and Bobby Cox have done is build a winning team for 15 years.

Your statement comes across as absolutely meaningless. But, carry on. No one is watching, I assure you.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

By the way, someone asked earlier about Willie Harris. Braves did sign him, just didn’t announce it yet. But don’t go getting too excited.

Here’s a note I just wrote for paper:

The Braves signed outfielder/second baseman Willie Harris, 28, to a minor league contract and will invite the Cairo, Ga., native to spring training.

He has a .238 average, 27 doubles, five homers and 55 stolen bases in 899 at-bats during six American League seasons with Baltimore, Chicago and Boston.

Harris spent most of 2006 with the Red Sox’ Class AAA Pawtucket affiliate, batting .220 with eight homers, 17 RBIs and 11 steals in 60 games. Harris hit .156 (7-for-45) with two doubles for Boston.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

MBATL, you wrote: “Escobar is caught in the middle, IMO. Unless we’re gonna trade Edgar, Escobar sits on the bench or in AAA for 2 more years. (he’s a recent signee, but played a few years of Cuban pro ball, and is about 24 now, I think)”

I agree with you, in principle. Only possiblity you might be overlooking is, you trade Edgar a year from now, after he has another steady year. Still will be under affordable contract for 2008, and many teams will want him for a year if he turns in another season like he had last year. And by then, Escobar would be ready.

Or by then, Escobar might be traded.

By Jeremy

December 8, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

Braves official site reporting Braves interest in Rocco Baldelli… Also stated that the Braves may be willing to give up Salty. Would the Braves really be willing to give up Salty to the D-Rays and get anyone but Carl Crawford?

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

JS could be using TB like he used the Pirates (supposedly). Think about it….no offense to bowman but how often does he scoop anyone?

By Calvin21

December 8, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

I would hate to give up yunel,salty and davis for baldelli. This is way too much. I would rather trade Laroche and let Salty learn to play 1st and then take over next year. I would love Baldelli, but not at this price. You are giving up 2 future starters and a young starting pitcher that had an injury plagued year. Guys Davies is going to bounce back and be a superb pitcher for us. Baldelli would be nice, but JS can do better than giving up those 3 for him. JS screwed over Bravasi and now he is getting worked on.

By One Voice

December 8, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

test

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

I wanna read what you trolls are posting…paste a link…

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

Lew, I was about to respond to his query about LaRoche’s swing when you did it for me:

By Lew December 8, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this MS-Maybe second best. Don’t forget McCann.

By 10 badman

December 8, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

I am a New York sports team hater (I live in NY) and I was there at Fenway Park with my father a Boston guy (he lives there) on that freezing cold day in early May when Davies made his debut. With my father busting my chops about how the Sox were going to crush the Braves with their no name emergency starter in his pregame speach to me. Then among the 37 degrees and gail force winds… Kyle Davies pitched the game of his life. With all of that being said, I say if he is the key to getting Rocco, it has to be done. 300 hitter to lead off with power and a stolen base threat…Kyle, that cold day was great but Christmas is a time for new Rocky movies and a new Rocky to move to the ATL.

By DCarp23

December 8, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

Rickey Henderson is the all time runs leader due largely to the fact that he is 4th all time in games played, 10th all time in at bats, 2nd all time in walks and has a .401 career on base percentage. Did he score more runs than a slower man would have in his position? Yes is be the likely answer. Of course, the fact that he was caught stealing as many times as he was eliminated many run scoring chances.

One indication of the importance of on base percentage vis-a-vis the stolen bases comes through comparison of his stats and 2002 and his 1982 stats. In 1982, in 654 plate appearences, Henderson scored 119 runs with 130 SBs. In 2002, at the age of 43, in 218 plate appearances he scored 40 runs while stealing eight bases. If you project those number out to 654 plate appearances, that is 120 runs with only 24 SBs.

Of course, those numbers are theoretical, and the 1982 A’s and 2002 Red Sox are completely different teams. But it is remarkable that as a 43 year old who had a batting average of .223(!) he was still able to score runs at that rate. The major reason appears to be that even with a .223 average, his on base percentage was still over .360. Outside of Barry Bonds, there hasn’t been a more disciplined hitter in years, and that’s a fact that gets obscured, in my opinion, with the focus on the SBs.

For those that have any interest, I would recommend picking up a copy of The Mind of Bill James, by Scott Gray. It is a biography and does a good job of explaining some of the basics of James’ statistical analysis and the basis behind his methods. I like it because a) it’s not too dense like many of his books are, b) it’s more interesting as it is in biography form, and c) it really does a great job of explaining stat heads, looking at their potential shortcomings and concluding that they aren’t as narrow minded as they are typically painted.

Anyway, just my two cents.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

MBATL, I’m beginning to think all is right with the world…saw Bob back on here yesterday and you here today. If I weren’t a beer-drinkin’, cud-chewing, long-spittin’ manly man, I’d be getting that warm fuzzy feeling and start tearing up :-)

Now, baseball…sure, I like Baldelli, but isn’t he due to make about $6MM this year? Where’s that cash coming from? And Yunel is soon to be a horse (Yes, so is Elvis, I know), so it would KILL me to see him go in a trade, unless it’s for a top-tier starter. Then it would just hurt. I agree he’s in a bad spot re timing and roster, but, MAN, I would hate to see such a player go.

By JC FROM UT

December 8, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Can someone tell me where this new rumor about Baldelli is coming from? If this is the deal JS should agree to right now! I agree about the prospect status of Escobar but it is just that: a prospect where Baldelli is a proven Major League hitter.

By Drew

December 8, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

So many fair weather fans on here. Its pretty disappointing. One year without a division title and everyone is calling for John and Bobby’s jobs. Its rediculous. We have one of the best managers and general managers in all of baseball and y’all are all trying to toss them out. It is really dificult to work with an 80 million dollar budget when other teams are working with budgets up to twice that. As for the Baldelli deal, that is definitely too much to give up for him. Unless we get another starter back, we can’t go into the season with Cormier in the rotation and Villareal as the only depth behind him. Cormier has never had a full season as a starter, so we don’t know how his arm would hold up for a whole year. Have some confidence in Shuerholtz and Cox people. We will be fine.

By journalist jimmy smith

December 8, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

oh, the humanity! the humanity! young willie harris is from cairo? as in BIG TOE FROM CAIRO? this may be just what this braves team needs!

By akirell

December 8, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754894&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

there’s the link to the baldelli thing.

any comments, David?

By Brian

December 8, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

Braves should pull the trigger on the LaRoche deal. Get Figgins, their 1B prospect and Ervin Santana for LaRoche and prospects. Then trade Hudson for Sexson.

The the Braves have their leadoff hitter and their power hitter, get a pitcher to replace Hudson, via E Santana. Then trade Giles and a prospect for Linebrink.

I am willing to bet LaRoche had a career year last him and moving him would be a smart move.

By David

December 8, 2006 07:36 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you have info on the AtlantaBraves.com story about Baldelli?

By mariner

December 8, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

DOB: After the 2007 season, if AJ is lost to free agency, his payroll is freed up, I’m not sure why you think Ichiro couldn’t be signed as a free agent. Or there wouldn’t be mutual interest. I don’t think he will command Alphonso Soriano, Carlos Lee, or Andruw dollars due to his being older and not hitting the homeruns. OK, it’s wishful thinking, but I never expected Rafael Soriano to be a Brave.

Thrill55: Only 84? It felt like a hundred.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this

Baddelli rumor is on the {Official Brave’s site}(www.atlantabraves.com){Brave’s}(www.atlantabraves.com)

Someone post a link to the mariners board thats some of you have been trolling.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

mariner,

Who’s his agent? And I think you sick if you dont think at team is gonna pay him more than 13 million a year….look at Matthews and the contract he got.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Oops. I must have been temporarily drifting in a parallel dimension, since Baldelli will make nowhere close to $6MM next year (more like about $2MM). Guess I must have been thinking about contract salary average, or, or…oh, never mind, I was just flat dang wrong (shocking, I know, but we’ll all just try to deal with it, LOL).

By mariner

December 8, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

DOB: After the 2007 season, if AJ is lost to free agency, his payroll is freed up, I’m not sure why you think Ichiro couldn’t be signed as a free agent. Or there wouldn’t be mutual interest. I don’t think he will command Alphonso Soriano, Carlos Lee, or Andruw dollars due to his being older and not hitting the homeruns. OK, it’s wishful thinking, but I never expected Rafael Soriano to be a Brave.

Thrill55: Only 84? It felt like a hundred.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

Questioning Soriano’s elbow because he had Tommy John surgery is just ridiculous. A good percentage of major league pitchers have had it, John Smoltz and Horacio Ramirez, being among the dozens and dozens of current major leaguers. It’s almost routine surgery these days. No, it IS routine. Just takes a grueling recovery, but most are fine after they come back, many actually better.

Soriano already made it through the first season back without elbow problems, so drop it. He had a sore SHOULDER this year from being overworked, but not elbow….

Moving on to more important matters _ YES, the BALDELLI THING IS BEING DISCUSSED. No question.

Braves all along balked at Chuck James, the guy Tampa asked for at the start of the meetings. But with Salty AND Escobar, the Braves’ top two position-player prospects, in the mix, the D-Rays are interested. Now, it’s just a matter of whether Braves are willing to give up Davies (remember, their top pitching prospect this time last year) as well, and also whether D-Rays would be satisfied with that. My gut is they would, and then it’ll be Braves’ call whether to pull trigger.

It’s a hard one, giving up THAT much. But you know what, given their needs _ LF one of them _ and Baldelli’s very, very reasonable contract, and the fact Andruw could be leaving a year from now…

I’d do it. I think I’ll put up another blog now, because I wanted to also tell you what I just found out tonight about the supposed Baltimore Roberts/Penn for Giles/LaRoche offer, which I said last week sounded wrong and wouldn’t have happened.

I was wrong. Braves wanted to do it. I couldn’t believe until a person who absolutley knows told me tonight.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

lets try that again…{test test (www.atlantabraves.com)}

By fnreitsma

December 8, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

rocco!!!! I can hear bobby now, ‘Come on, ‘rocky’!’ and his song when he comes to the plate? Fn right…’eye of the tiger’. I’m psyched. Baldelli for Salty and Davies? Me thinks me likes. Losing Andruw next fall wont hurt nearly as much.

By mariner

December 8, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

http://forums.seattletimes.nwsource.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=22

seattle mariners blog

By The Grinch

December 8, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Scoots, you chew your cud? Does this mean you also have hooves? You’re the smartest hooved mammal I know besides Babe the pig (I think Mr. Ed is dead). If we ever meet for a game the first round of oats is on me. :-)

By Carolina Lady

December 8, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Scoots, you are in rare form this evening! :-)))

By Joe Smoe

December 8, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

Baldelli for a couple of hopefulls, brings the Braves into a great series of options. I think it should be explored with possiblities of moving Andruw to the Dodgers for starting pitching and prospects. We would have the lead off, payroll cut, and with future of CF takin care of for years. Then with a small trade of Giles, our payroll would be opened up to fill in the holes we might need filled.

If JS can pull that off, or something like it!! The next few years of great ATL baseball would be secured.

By Drew

December 8, 2006 08:16 PM | Link to this

Joe Shmoe, I was just about to suggest something similar. The Dodgers have an excess of starters, so I was wondering if Penny and Matt Kemp with maybe a prospect for Andruw would get the job done. Baldelli goes to center, Kemp to left, we replace Davies, and free up some cap space. This is obviously a best case scenario that probably won’t happen, but it would sure be interesting. DOB, your thoughts? A stretch I know, but what do you think?

By mariner

December 8, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

Billy (TBFnB): Ichiro’s agent is Tony Attanasio. This is from a Seattle PI story Oct 25, “Ichiro, when asked during the final week of the season about his future with the Mariners, made it clear that he would like nothing better than to stay, but not if the Mariners don’t field a more competitive team. His first three years the Mariners won 90 or more games each time. Since then, it’s been three consecutive last-place finishes.”

I’m pretty pessimistic about the Mariner’s chances this year, and therefore expecting Ichiro to leave after 2007. And I don’t think 13 mil will get it, never said that. Matthews signed for 10 mil per year. Soriano and Carlos Lee for about 17 mil per year. I think AJ will be higher than that. Ichiro should fall in between, maybe 15 mil. That’s a number I think the Braves would be willing to pay Andruw, and if he rejects it, I think that amount of money could be spent elsewhere, perhaps Ichiro. But, I mentioned this before all the Baldelli stuff hit the wire.

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

Grinch, make that barley and you have a deal! Though I guess Robert would say there’s TWO donkeys in the stadium!

By futurebravesgm2413

December 8, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

I give the chance of Andruw being traded at under one percent. However a deal of Billingsly and Kemp would be awesome. Though reports say the Dodgers refuse to give up Billingsly. Maybe they could get Loney and a pitching prospect instead of Billingsly then deal Loney and a prospect for Mike Gonzales. But none of that would happen. Andruw will be a Brave.

If our goal is to win the World Series we need to keep Andruw Jones, period.

By Tinsdale

December 8, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Face it, the organization is in the process of dismantling itself. It rose to a top tier organization in the 90’s by being one of the big spenders in baseball-both in payroll and in investing in its minor league system. It’s been coasting along on the bounty of those years but now they’re being outspent by half the league. A team in the middle of the pack payrollwise will have occasional success in a 10-15 year period but nothing consistent like it has been. Can’t go after proven, good free agents-too expensive. Now they’re talking about eating their seed corn, i.e. filling a pitching hole by trading one of their few good+cheap players simply because he’s tradeable and thereby at best simply swapping a pitching hole for a hole in the everyday lineup. The solution to the problem is pretty simple. The club needs to open the pursestrings. Unless they do that, the foreseeable future is nothing but a slow decline to repeated middle of the pack finishes year after year at best.

By Adam

December 8, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Do not ever, EVER, trade LaRoche

By Troy

December 8, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

I gotta say I like Baldelli, hopefully the Braves will work hard to try and pull that one off. I think Salty, Escobar, and Davies would get it done.

By Billy (TBFnB)

December 8, 2006 08:38 PM | Link to this

I’ll respond to you in the new blog…mariner

By The Grinch

December 8, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Scoots, if you ever run across me in that setting, I assure you much barley will be consumed indeed; albeit in liquid form.

Davies, Escobar and Salty for Rocco? Hell, yeah! Cormier or the Vulture in the #5 spot are a dang site better than Davies has shown so far (yeah, yeah; UPSIDE…he can take his upside and sit on someone else’s bench). With LaRoche and McCann we don’t need Salty. Number one, make it so.

By Salty

December 8, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this

Scalp ‘Em I think you hit it with Justice…thanks!

CL You’re more than welcome.

As for Seattle, with all due respect, while I tried, it was KC who really laid the persuasive argument down, but it’s a hornet’s nest up there…all pointed at the GM, Bavasi. Here’s where KC tried: http://forums.seattletimes.nwsource.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9845&sid=0373eef50dc7a68e56a1b55dac53c45f

It’s a hornet’s nest and then some. Poor HoRam…I’d hope for another trade if I were him…he’s become a lightning rod of discontent…not good, nor deserving, IMO.

By futurebravesgm2413

December 8, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

Has anyone read the article on this site about the sale of the team. It disturbs me in so many ways.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 08:58 PM | Link to this

DOB: Earlier you replied to Rob’s rant on LaRoche. I’m of the belief, personally, that LaRoche could turn out to be very good. Having said that, you ask what prescident there was of some guy doing what LaRoche has done and then regressing. I’d like to point out Wally Joyner. His second full season in the majors he had his career year. I’d say he peeked.
His line that year: AVG 285, R 100, SLG 528 OBP 366 RBI 117 and HR 34.
After that season he regressed to a 15 to 20 homer potential guy who hit about 10. His HR, RBI, SLG, R and BB that year were all career highs.

Now, I don’t know his league ranking or BPS against fast balls, maybe he wasn’t in the top ten in those catagories, but it isn’t entirely without prescident that a player could put up really good numbers early and never do it again. It could be this is the highest value LaRoche could ever have. Not saying it is, but it isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
JS usually trades those away any way. But if he thinks Chuck James is one of those guys he’s lost his gord. Chuck James is worth more than Baldelli. Baldelli looks like the guy I thought Langerhans would be honestly. A 280 hitter with 10 to 15 homers and some great defense (don’t know what Baldelli offers defensively, any insite?). Though Langerhans would have a better OBP. And of course, Langerhans certainly hasn’t performed to that level. Seems like a lot to give up for a LF. Especially when we have a duo that put up similar numbers combined. Re-read the offer… seems like an awful lot to give up for one guy. Escobar, Salty AND Davies!? What if we handed em a couple of low level pitchers and the rights to talk to Reistma? =)

Also, one last thing: Mark Bradley says: the AJC doesn’t allow writers to vote in weekly polls or on yearly awards but permits columnists to cast a Hall of Fame ballot I thought you said you weren’t allowed to vote? He has a good article on Big Mac. Read it over before you send in that ballot.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 8, 2006 09:14 PM | Link to this

I’ll say this about the Baldelli trade. If the Rays would accept that offer, as much as I don’t like the idea of giving up Davies, I would do it. I’m one who always says you can’t just look at the here and now but donw the road as well. (My entire reasoning for trading Andruw.) Considering Baldelli would be signed through 2011 and not make more than $9 mil is a steal if you ask me. Here’s a guy capable of .300avg 25HR and depending where he hits in the lineup 60-90 RBI. So, when taking that into consideration I would say you have to pull the trigger. I don’t feel any less comfortable with Cormier going into the season as the 5th starter as I do Davies. However, its the lack of depth that bothers me. That would leave Villearal as the backup option. I guess there’s Kevin Berry but that is kind of scary. However, the reality is that Andruw is long gone after this upcoming season so Baldelli not only would serve as his replacement but a rpl that could be there for the next four years following Andruw’s departure. If Baldelli were to be signed it would make Diaz, Thorman, or Langerhans expendable. I would say attempt to package Langerhans and Giles somewhere. San Diego could still be interested. I wonder if the Angels would be willing to give up Joe Saunders for them. Perhaps, the Indians would give up Cliff Lee for Giles and Langerhans. They could definitely use Giles.

This whole Baldelli thing makes me wonder if JS hasn’t had this in the works all along and that is why Giles wasn’t moved yet. I mean I know that DOB said there wasn’t much interest in Giles as far as giving anything up. However, if JS could get this Baldelli thing done by midnight Sunday or early Monday morning, we would then know where he stood and could make an offer to the Indians for Lee. I’m sure the prospect of any team giving up “quality’ just for Giles is a bit shaky. But, if a team knows they are getting a quality 4th outfielder who could become a starter along with a great 2B then that changes the landscape.

DOB, have the Braves said anything about Giles. Has Giles said anything. It seems very weird to me how quiet evreyone is on this considering that Tuesday is D-day so to speak. What have you heard, my man?

By ncscoots

December 8, 2006 09:21 PM | Link to this

TPaul, I can only think the Braves are projecting Baldelli in CF in the future, and figure he has more than 15-HR power (no one player is gonna replace AJ’s offense, so Braves will need higher output from positions not currently generating, I guess). Baldelli is still young, will be inexpensive throughout the contract, and is under club control until some godawful-long-time in the future.

Having said all that, I tend to agree this is a break-the-bank trade. But we’ve said before that it would take that kind of trade to pry one of the D-Rays good outfielders away THIS year. So I’m torn here…lot of positives in Baldelli on the roster, but, man, it does seem a lot to offer. And after that, whither pitching? Seems the trade cupboard would be pretty bare.

By JC FROM UT

December 8, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this

Robert(justice is best): I think your thinking is great only problem with Cleveland is that they have acquires Josh Barefield from San Diego about a month ago,therefor Cleveland has no interest in Giles what so ever.

By Lew

December 8, 2006 09:31 PM | Link to this

Given that Baldelli would solve the problem of Andruw leaving in 08, solve the leadoff problem and solve left field for this season (Andruw is NOT going to be traded), I think we have to do it. Villarreal was mentioned by BC as getting a shot this spring as #5 starter, anyway, so to me it’s a no brainer. Besides, I think Matt Harrison will be ready by August or so, anyway. Doesn’t Strutze also have experience starting? If Baldelli can stay healthy we would have an extremly potent offense.

By J-MAN

December 8, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

Why would you trade Chuck James? He is the only reliable lefty at this time, (that might change if Hampton has mentally recovered and we won’t find that out until at least May). The team looks good except for the lack of a lead-off guy and another Lefty in the Bull-pen to take pressure off McBride. You do have chips to trade with in Hudson, Giles, Salty and LaRoche. And you don’t have to trade all of them but you’ll have to part with at least 2 of them. Giles is certain to be traded, teams like the Reds, Padres, Tigers and O’s have shown some intrest. So I’d go after a lead-off guy via the trade route more than free agent route. But still I think you can find a durable lefty in free agency for a reasonable price, so you don’t have to go the trade route unlike the lead-off guy which the Bravos will definately have to trade for.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 8, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, I have the same concerns. That is why I wonder if some deal maybe isn’t in the works for Giles and JS is waiting to see what the Rays do.

As for replacing Andruw’s production, I would assume expected increase production from other guys is being counted on. I feel that with the right tutoring Frenchy is a 35HR 115+RBI a year guy. (Plus 20 or so RBI). When looking at LaRoche’s numbers, keep in mind he was platooning with BJ until the middle of June and he hit in the 7th hole most of the year. I don’t think that Roachy hitting 35HR and 110RBI is out of the question. (plus 20 RBI)McCann’s RBI production should increase slightly. He did miss the better part of three weeks last year. (a marginal increase of 10 RBI). That right there is an increase of 50 RBI. If the Braves can find someone that can produce another 70 or so RBI for LF in 2008 (Thorman?) then you have replaced that production. This is all based on some assumptions that guys will get better but it is also a fairly safe assumption.

If I had to make a call right here and now, I would say pull the trigger on the trade with the Rays. Now, DOB, what about the Braves taking a chance on Jason Johnson. Cox loves reformation projects and Lord knows Johnson falls under that category.

Also, DOB, has Giles or the Braves said anything about the contract/non-tendering status?

By David

December 8, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

The big problem with giving up so many good prospects for Baldelli is that his Web MD report is effectively his entire body. He’s torn his ACL, injured his shoulder and experienced hamstring troubles with both legs.

By JC FROM UT

December 8, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

I read earlier (can’t remember wher maybe MLB.COM) that the Braves were inteested in signing Miguel Batista. Could he be the pitcher that is going to take over the 5th spot in the rotation? It seems most people are reluctant to give up Escobar in this trade. That being said, should JS offer LaRoach and Davies for Baldelli? I know Tampa acquired DIoner Navarro last seaso so I don’t think they are real need of a young catcher unless they planned on playing Salty at 1B.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Lew- In response to an earlier post about me ever liking Laroche, it is possible, i take a side so that i can be changed, baseball is the greatest sport ever and you can never know enough about it so when choosing a side it gives me the opportunity to look at either side, so i have come to like laroche over the past couple of days, but man is he great trade bait.

On another note, the baldelli deal sounds reasonable, but we should look toward other prospects or major league ready players.

By Drew

December 8, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

J-MAN, Chuck James is not going to be traded. Tampa Bay originally wanted him for Baldelli, but the Braves told them no. Also, the O’s don’t have interest in Giles. They only wanted him when the deal was going to send Roberts here and LaRoche there. That deal isn’t going to happen, so I think the Orioles are out of the Giles picture. I think Boston and San Diego are the most logical options.

By David O'Brien

December 8, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Braves aren’t in running for Batista, never were despite what you might have read elsewhere. He’s gonna get $7-8 mill a year. Braves aren’t doing free agents.

OK, moving on … I just posted a NEW BLOG. Yes, because I wanted to work well into the night just once more this week.

Anyway, that rumor was worth doing a blog about, and I just got a callback from Tampa Bay person. D-Rays are talking to at least 4-5 teams about Baldelli, but Braves are definitely one. W. Sox and O’s are other two chief bidders, probably.

OK, have at it. I’m going to see my buddy’s band at Smith’s (and the burlesque show before the band goes on).

later

By Lew

December 8, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

JMan-Have you been paying attention? The proposed trade is Salty, Escobar and Davies for Rocco Baldelli of the DRays. He will bat leadoff and play left this season. He is under contract through 2011 at no more than $9mil per season, but only $2.5 this year and $4mil in 08. He hits doubles and triples and can steal bases. He averages about 16 HR. No one is going to trade Chuck James. The Braves refused that deal several days ago. After trading Ramirez the other day and including Davies if this deal goes through, they can’t trade Hudson, they’ll need him. Next year, saving $9.5 million on Andruw’s salary vs. Baldelli’s, the Braves will have enough to pay the boost in Hudson’s salary and have a couple million left over. This deal has got to happen.

By TennesseePaul

December 8, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

Just read the post from KC on the Mariners blog. Sheeesh those guys really aren’t happy. Makes me glad we do have JS on our side. To hear them talk we just robbed the bank with this trade.

Speaking of recent JS trades, thinking of this Baldelli deal… The Rays have a bad rap in my head when trading with us. We got Sosa from those guys. They have this way of trading guys that do just well enough to stick around an extra year and drag you to the bottom of the ocean floor. Sort of a delayed anchor effect. Of course, we sent Nick Green down there for Sosa… so guess all’s fair.

But this still seems like a lot to give up. We give up three top ranked guys AND depleat our pitching depth. For that kind of price seems like Crawford could be obtained. Does the Braves Brass not see Crawford as high as Baldelli? Why couldn’t we package a minor leaguer and Langerhans or Diaz? Do the Rays know he has contacts now? If we get Baldelli, is Cox going to call him Baldy?

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

December 8, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this

JC, you’re right. I don’t know what I was thinking.

J-man, the Padres’interest may or may not still be there for Giles. Walker accepted arbitration today and is staying. Now, he could play 3B but who knows. I don’t see where the Reds or O’s would have any use for Giles. The Tigers would be interested in Giles but would they give up on their young stud pitchers with Kenny Rogers pitching on borrowed time. Another option could be the Blue Jays but they don’t have any pitching to offer. Another team I have to revisit is the Red Sox. Lester got a clean bill of health yesterday and is going to be ready for spring training. If the Sox sign the Japanese pitcher, that would give them Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, the Japanese pitcher, Lester, Clement, and Paplebon in the rotation. With that being the case would the Sox be a bit more willing to give up Craig Hansen or even settle for Kyle Snyder. Snyder would at least provide depth and protection.

By Jeff

December 8, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

My vote fore Giles for Wily Mo Pena straight up

By just Bob, plain and simple

December 8, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

andruw’s current swing is an injury waiting to happen. if he continues to swing like that and falls back on his ankles he better switch to high-top sneakers (know what high-top sneakers are?) like u.s. keds. oh, the humanity! no one knows what u.s. keds are anymore! andruw has so much power and is such a gifted athlete - if he could again control his swing he would probably hit more homeruns - though it is hard to imagine they would go so far. let’s hope andruw can avoid injury with this new habit (bad habit as far as this journalist is concerned). remember when he was batting almost exactly like pujols? where did that go?

I didn’t write it … but I wish I had! The Kid from Cordele has a way with words, plain and simple!

I’ve got to run … help my son finish the horseracing projection system … hopefully scheduled for completion in my lifetime!

Welcome Back MBATL!! … to the oat eating tearyeyed one, you’re a wordsmithe of the first order … without the e, of course, of course … and Grinch, Rocky Lane isn’t really dead … you can see him on Encore Westerns most anytime.

Let me beat the drum a bit for “Beat The Drum”, a movie about AIDS in Africa … good music, good story about a little boy … and best of all, it’s dedicated to the memory of the most gracious of ladies, a big Braves fan and my best friend! It’s on Showtime several times during December … sometimes in HD … also available on Comcast Showtime ON Demand during December.

Later …

By Dave

December 8, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

BRAVESFUTURE - I read the just-posted article on Liberty ownership by Tim Tucker but my take is positive not negative based on the CEO Maffei’s comments.

If you read between the lines, I think when Maffei says he sees the Braves franchise as a “fine store of value… attractive as eventually saleable… not likely to decline in value” that’s corporate speak for ‘we expect the franchise to increase significantly in value so we can move it in maybe 3-5 years for a handsome profit.’

These cash cow media outfits like Liberty can easily pump an additional $20M-$30M into the asset quickly to re-capture its top-tier status and achieve its ultimate objective.

That’s my take, anyway. I’d like to hear DOB’s, yours, and others on it.

By Mark

December 9, 2006 06:46 AM | Link to this

The Braves need to stop dumping good players. The are decresing the vlue of the team.God I hate AOL, for slowly ruining our team. But this is a good team now the guys have just got to perform.I think the biggest question mark is starting pitching…Will Hampton be ready , Will Smoltz breakdown , etc etc…You need Giles, you need that big bat of LaRoach. I mean what if Chipper is too old to really be chipper again.Keep those Bats

By Knockahoma

December 9, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

From what I can tell, the Soriano move is huge. The bullpen was the #1 issue and Schurholtz fixed it. What more should we expect. You have to grow your own starter staff (i.e.James). Who has the money to match Steinbrenner prices for the rag-arms that are out there. For example, it would take the entire Braves budget to get Zito. We have what we need. Lets keep Rochey and Giles. We can handle the Mets .

By Steve

December 9, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

I like JS’s moves so far. Now, we trade some of our excess bullpen pitchers (Stockman, Ray, etc. or Pete Orr) for a cheap no.5 starter. Then, we trade Cormier, Davies and a prospect for Baldelli, non-tender Reitsma, and we have an excellent team that will contend for the World Series.
Projected Starters: Baldelli, OF. Giles, 2B. CJ, 3B. AJ, CF. Renteria, SS. Francoeur, RF. McCann, C. LaRoche, 1B. (Adjust to your liking). Our rotation will be good also 1.Smoltz, 2. Hudson, 3. Hampton, 4. James, 5. (Grienke? or other recieved from trade). Bullpen.

By Steve

December 9, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

Sorry, didn’t get to finish my last post. Bullpen: Wickman, Soriano, Villareal, Sturtze?, Paronto, McBride, Boyer,etc. Great Lineup, Great pitching. Overall, I think JS can make it work w/o trading Giles. He has Davies, several relievers, and some prospects available for trade.

By M's Fan

December 9, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry about Soriano he’ll be fine. You got a stud reliever. And Bavasi is an idiot so you got the better end. I just wish Your GM didn’t have those incriminating photos of Bavasi. Go to Lookout Landing if you want more info.

By richie

December 10, 2006 07:53 AM | Link to this

GET RID OF THE GM…NOT BRINGING GLAVINE BACK WAS A HUGH ERROR…TIME FOR HIM TO GO

By Adam

December 10, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this

If at all possible, I think the Braves should try and keep Giles. I have read that they are going after Baldelli and if that do get him, Giles could go back to his No. 2 spot in the line up, where he has excelled over the past few years. Giles has become one of the older players on the team and is a great leader in the club house and plays a pretty tough second base.

By Daniel

December 11, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

There is a second baseman in Richmond. He has some ties to the big club. His name Johnathon Schuerholz.

By al hott

December 14, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

as a Braves fan living in SW Florida I also get a lot of Devil Ray news. After a great start it appears that all I hear of Baldelli is his missing games because of injuries, etc. Look at his stats in two of his three major league seasons. Doesn’ play much, huh?Maybe JS needs to look elsewhere for someone who at least plays 140 to 145 games per yaar. Great review DOB very interesting info.